# Planning Permission for Wooden Stables >> relates to my previous post!



## vivhewe (2 August 2006)

After my post about wooden flat pack stables... Wooden Flat Pack Stables post 

I am wondering if anyone knows what planning permission I will need for them.

Will it make any difference if they are set on a concrete base but dob't have foundations (if you see what I mean in the pictures kindly provided by BeggarsGold 
	
	
		
		
	


	




) or if they have an earth floor? (At least until they are finished and the council have been and signed them off!)

What category of PP will I need? As they will be on agricultural land will I be able to classify them as agricultural buildings (it's cheaper!) or not?

Also if anyone else has any information or experiences of putting up stables like shown above that will be great! Thankies.


----------



## airedale (2 August 2006)

If they are mobile stables then they (probably) won't require planning permission BUT you can legally be required to move a mobile structure every 28 days and not return it to it's original location for 12 months. A mobile structure must not be connected to ANY mains services and must not be on any form of hardstanding base.

Therefore these will count as permanent stables and planning permission will be required. You cannot claim agricultural use if you are going to put horses into them and councils are not stupid - you have horses, you are applying for stables, ergo the buildings are for the horses - and no matter what you try and play in the form of a game with them - they won't believe you

It is a very expensive game to play with planners by trying to put up stuff and then retro the planning afterwards - you may still get the planning for the stables but then if you want to have, say, an arena later on the planners will have 'blacklisted' your property as a 'problem property' with a 'history of trouble' and you will be given every hassle under the sun.

Don't however go and 'ask the nice planners' for advice - they aren't !!!!! N.B. 'nice' they are the ENEMY. Go and find a reputable agricultural/equestrian planning consultant and get professional advice.

Also be certain - and discuss this honestly with the consultant - who is acting FOR YOU - if you have future plans for arenas, horsewalkers, barns or anything else - as sometimes he will suggest applying for the whole design at once rather than piecemeal - as sometimes planners can grant PP for things and then put clauses in the planning that, for example, "prohibit further development on the site" 

Planning is a minefield - you can PM me if you like as I've done a lot as a lay person - BUT the best advice is to get LOCAL professional advice - as a local consultant will know the best way to tackle your particular borough - and they seem to fall into one of two camps "hate horses" or "don't hate horses" and there are many more of the former than the latter unhappily.

good luck


----------



## vivhewe (2 August 2006)

Thankyou! Seeing as I'm not wanting to move my stables every 28 days it looks like Im going to have to get planning permission 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 but TBH I'm hoping they won't have too many issues with them *gulps* 

But then again they might turn around and say about the 'land used for keeping horses' rule, (even though mine have been there 10 years) as they haven't done it in the part of Cumbria where I live yet but someone at Carlisle got told they needed PP to keep their horse in a paddock, and knowing my luck it will be me that is first here!

I think it will be best to decide what I want, grab the planning consultant we use for the farm when we want to put something up, and leave him to it! 
	
	
		
		
	


	





Thankyou for your help!


----------



## Maesfen (2 August 2006)

As you're on agricultural land have you looked into getting PP for a small barn which you could later divide into calf pens ......cough cough.......stables which would be cheaper?!  Or do you need PP for a field shelter and then you could again divide it later when everyone is used to seeing it?  I know a friend put up a field shelter on his farmland, concrete base and all and nothing was ever said.  Only other question is are you in the National Park cos then you'd need to be ultra careful?!
Probably shouldn't say this but we bought a block of three wooden ones and put them up 'very quietly' at the bottom of the stackyard as we are on an agricultural tenency but they were on the sight of an old galvanised tractor shed that had seen far better days and now they are included on the OS maps!


----------



## vivhewe (2 August 2006)

I could probably get away without PP at all *cough* but the neighbour over the hedge is a miserable cow and watched for two weeks while we relaid the hedge and then phoned up and started ranting that we had destroyed her haven and it was her hedge! 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 It was the crappest hedge you have ever seen - all top and no shelter at all! It was our hedge but aparently you can go and amend your house plans at the solicitors so we think she claimed it after we had tidied it up but we just can't prove anything! Otherwise why watch for two weeks if it is your hedge and bothers you that much? 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 I could see her objecting but nobody else would as the neighbours are all okay about my horses!

Anyway back on subject the people who own the hedge at the other side where you can see from the road pulled the hedge out so you can see exactly where I want my stables put up! Had it been out of sight it wouldn't have been a problem but because it is near the road people will see it. 

The only other alternative is that I don't get permission and then when the council do turn up I play the dumb 17 year old girl thing and say I didn't think I needed any and it was only for ym horses welfare that I put them up! (Nothing to do with the fact that I want Dan inside when I need him dry to do riding club stuff, honest! 
	
	
		
		
	


	




)


----------



## Maesfen (2 August 2006)

[ QUOTE ]

The only other alternative is that I don't get permission and then when the council do turn up I play the dumb 17 year old girl thing and say I didn't think I needed any and it was only for ym horses welfare that I put them up! (Nothing to do with the fact that I want Dan inside when I need him dry to do riding club stuff, honest! 
	
	
		
		
	


	




) 

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're going to play it that way, be prepared, have everything ready (but out of sight! 
	
	
		
		
	


	




) then when bad weather hits (or is believed to be hitting your vicinity 
	
	
		
		
	


	




) whack them up quick.  When PP do call, act dumb and say you were only doing it for the animals welfare, surely didn't need PP to get them out of the storms/ice/snow/wind/hail/sun and so on, it was AN EMERGENCY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! else you would have had the RSPCA on you like a ton of bricks and plead innocence!  However, thinking like PPs, they've probably heard that one before!!


----------



## pottamus (2 August 2006)

I am with airedale on this...from great experience. You need planning for the stables if they are on a permanent base and also need change of use on your land for equestrian purposes...agricultural does not cover it unless the horses are for grazing purposes only and you never ride them or use them for leisure.
I would talk to your neighbours and let them know your plans so they are informed and do not take the hump when you put in for planning...you need them on your side or they will object. Talk to a planning person...get them out and involve them and ask for advice on how to put the planning through...that is what they are there for. Don't try to hood wink them or go for retrospective planning as it does not work and may stop you having anything at all. Good luck with them !


----------



## airedale (2 August 2006)

under GPDO 95 you can only erect a new agricultural structure if you own or tenant over 5 hectares (approx. 12.5 acres) of land.

If you own or occupy less than 5 hectares you can only 'alter or extend' an existing structure and you are restricted to the extension being 10% or less than the size of the current structure.

Any such structure must be for agricultural purposes.

Horses are not agricultural in this country (but they are in the rest of the EU - ggrrrrrrrrrr)

The other alternative is to put up the stables "within the curtilage of your dwelling" - i.e. your garden. This then becomes within the "permitted development rights" associated with your dwelling house. That is of course providing you are not in a conservation area; within x m of the road, next door house, etc.; and that the occupants of the building could not be construed to contravene Environmental Health regulations in the form of noise, smells, vermin, flies, manure.

As I said before - people can choose to play games with the planners and sometimes win - but the price of the game if you don't win can be very very high - i.e you don't get want you want/need; your property is blacklisted; and the sale of your property in the future is blighted by it's  planning history.

Get a consultant and do the thing properly. 

PP for horse related development is a specialist area. You wouldn't not have the vet out to your horse for something 'serious'. Ergo don't refuse to have a professional to sort out something 'serious' like planning.


----------



## OWLIE185 (2 August 2006)

I would strongly advise you to appoint a surveyor/architect to draw up the plans and specifications and apply for planning permission on your behalf.

There is little point in trying to pull a fast one as in time it will be discovered and you will then have all sorts of agrovation probably when you least want it.

There have recently been a number of high profile cases and the planners are only too aware of the problems surrounding equestrian developments!


----------



## vivhewe (2 August 2006)

Methinks a phone call to the consultants is on the cards! 
	
	
		
		
	


	





Will let you know how I get on!


----------



## vivhewe (2 August 2006)

Methinks a phone call to the consultants is on the cards! 
	
	
		
		
	


	





Will let you know how I get on!


----------



## airedale (2 August 2006)

WILL NOT WORK

A friend of mine farms ducks (for eggs not meat)

DEFRA encouraged all poultry farmers/keepers to 'be prepared' to bring their flocks under cover this spring

She therefore needed to cover the ducks runs to conform to what was DEFRA requirements (and failure to obey same could have resulted in heavy fines had the order been given to keep all poultry undercover).

However - her planning department insisted that she needed planning permission (agricultural use - N.B. - it's ducks) for a framework of poles with clear plastic sheeting bolted to the top (not much more than a garden pergola to be honest)

Not only did she have to apply for planning permission but the whole saga took 5 months and formal drawings to the right scale etc.

so by the time she got planning permission for the 'structure' she'd have been in breech of the DEFRA mandatory regulations for about 4 months...!!!!

Animal welfare has NOTHING to do with planning - the planners couldn't care less if your stables are burnt to the ground along with every horse in them. If they did care then they'd give people in areas troubled by arsonists permission to reside with their stables or farm buildings to protect their livestock.

But they don't !!!! (or not without a 10 year or so fight and shedloads of money).


----------

