# Bates Innova Dressage Saddles??



## lex2501 (29 February 2012)

Hi All,

I'm looking into treating myself to a new dressage saddle. I have had my ideal jessica for about 5 years now and feel it's time for an upgrade 

Anyone got any experience of the Bates Innova? The changeable gullet makes it very appealing - and seeing photos of some of you guys looking immaculate in yours has put it to the top of my wishlist!

Would love to hear your reviews - good and bad - and if anyone would suggest anything else as an alternative?


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## ellie_e (29 February 2012)

My mum has one for her ISH lovely saddle however my WB goes awfully in it, he has a big flashy pace and it restricts his shoulders think you should try before you buy.


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## lex2501 (29 February 2012)

ellie_e said:



			My mum has one for her ISH lovely saddle however my WB goes awfully in it, he has a big flashy pace and it restricts his shoulders think you should try before you buy.
		
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Thanks for this - really interesting as my chap is quite extravagant in front and open in the shoulder and the ideal jessica is quite a discreet saddle so would be interesting to see if the bates restricted him. I will definitely have a proper trial in one. Luckily my trusted saddler specialises in Bates so hopefully he should have a good few for me to sit in. Thanks again


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## ihatework (29 February 2012)

Definitely one to try before you buy! They seem to be a marmite saddle. Personally I hated the one I tried but then others Iknow really like them.


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## nikkimariet (29 February 2012)

Me and PS both have the Innova (with standard blocks).

Mine was originally fitted to Bruce, chunky ISH and now fitted to teeny weeny ex racer Fig.

Think all saddles are a marmite thing though - I hate all Albions and so does PS, but we both know people who love them!!

Must point out from a rider perspective, those I know that do like them tend to be of the taller and longer legged disposition.


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## lex2501 (29 February 2012)

nikkimariet said:



			Think all saddles are a marmite thing though - I hate all Albions and so does PS, but we both know people who love them!!

Must point out from a rider perspective, those I know that do like them tend to be of the taller and longer legged disposition.
		
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That sounds absolutely perfect for me as I am 5'8'' and very long in the leg - particularly from hip to knee meaning I usually need an 18inch saddle otherwise my knees pop out the front 

I saw your piccies and really liked how the Bates looked on your bay boys! I have to agree with you about Albions too - they are SO heavy too...


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## ellie_e (29 February 2012)

lex2501 said:



			I saw your piccies and really liked how the Bates looked on your bay boys! I have to agree with you about Albions too - they are SO heavy too...
		
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I LOVE my albion!!


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## Spiderman (29 February 2012)

If you love your Jessica why don't you try the Ideal Tonishia? Specifically suited to big shoulder movement, we love ours.


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## lex2501 (29 February 2012)

Spiderman said:



			If you love your Jessica why don't you try the Ideal Tonishia? Specifically suited to big shoulder movement, we love ours.
		
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Thank you for this - had never looked into those but it looks really lovely and I can see why it gives more shoulder freedom. I have considered the Susannah too because I get on so well with the Jessica. I have a made to measure ideal single flap event saddle which I love so would be more than happy to stick with Ideal as a brand as I have had such good experiences. 

I think I shall bite the bullet and call the saddler and tell him to load his van up with Bates and Ideals. Thanks everyone  will keep you updated...


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## TheoryX1 (29 February 2012)

Mini TX has one and it fits a treat.  Her little mare is ever so slightly roach backed, has a huge powerful rear end with a bum to die for, slim shoulders and massive extravagent movement front and back.  Its the only saddle that does not slip forward onto her shoulders, and it doesnt seem to restrict her movement in the slightest.  I guess its each to their own, as she tried a Jessica and about 20 other saddles before settling on the Innova.


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## vicky86 (29 February 2012)

I too am looking for a new dressage saddle and have been considering the bates innova as I too like the idea of the changeable gullet as my boy is quite young so I will expect he will change shape. My only thoughts were it looked a little bulky? 
Has anyone tried or heard of the fairfax saddle? It's a mono flap with a changeable gullet, I thought it looked really nice but think its pretty new on the market so not sure what reviews it's been getting? Might be worth a look if your after a changeable gullet system.


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## sbloom (1 March 2012)

Wintec/Bates headplates:

http://saddlefitter.blogspot.com/2011/09/changeable-gullets-details.html

Adjustable saddles:

http://saddlefitter.blogspot.com/2009/11/from-tree-up-sub-topic-adjustable-trees.html#more


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## Spiderman (1 March 2012)

Very interesting reading, thank you.


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## lex2501 (1 March 2012)

Spiderman said:



			Very interesting reading, thank you.
		
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I second this!


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## sbloom (1 March 2012)

And I have to endorse her views (in fact I think it was me that made the "damned kink" comment that prompted her blog post on Wintec headplates).

I see even professional saddel fitters, but especially owners, sticking in a different headplate in order to get a certain amount of clearnace, or to bring the pommel up or down to balance the saddle, and it's so WRONG.  If you had to get a fitter out and they had to asses the saddle as is, there's no temptation to make a quick change and end up with a headplate that is not parallel with your horse's side, and the owner definitely wouldn't be able to do it!

I find it very frustrating when my customers ask me to check a Wintec/Bates - I test the tree angles by feeling for even pressure under the front of the saddle and this shape of headplate (apparently also seen on the Tekna, and possibly other brands) means that there is usually more pressure at the top of the panel, which to me is a sign of a too wide tree, even when the saddle is the "right" width, or even too narrow.  I want my horse to be able to fill out in this area as much as possible, so why would I want the saddle tree to kink inwards and fill that area?  Same as another pet hate, flocking stuffed into the head of the saddle up by the pommel to the extent that it is convex - again, I want my horse to expand here, not end up the same shape as that saddle!


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## ellie_e (1 March 2012)

My friend has a fairfax- Its nice but really only a nicer leather to the Kent &Masters, for the same money you can have an Albion


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