# Help regarding being mis-sold a horse by dealer



## harveypops (17 December 2016)

1 month ago I purchased a mare from a dealer. Who was described as safe and had been there and done that. I tried her out and she was fab to hack and ride in the field. She had a spook the second time I saw her when I was mounting and tried to jump forward but dealer said I must have kicked her in the ribs! Rude. Anyhoo once she was delivered to the yard immediately I started having problems. She wouldn't go into her stable without charging in at 100mph nearly knocking me over! Sometimes it would take ages for her to go in and she would start rearing. The first time I put a rug on her she kicked out when doing up her leg straps. I thought this was a one off and maybe she was just stressed from moving. However it's not a 1 off and every time I rug her up she is kicking out violently with both back legs and sometimes I feel terrified to even try again! She is also very aggresive when she is fed and bites, kicks the walls and goes for ANYTHING near her! I cant be near her when shes being fed. However the other day when I was leaving I was saying bye she kicked the wall and then charged forward at me! I got such a fright. The last time I rode her she bucked me off when I was mounting and now i am too scared to even get on her again. The horse is totally different from what I was told she was, safe, sweet and easy to do. Things are getting worse now. I asked for her to be taken away after 2 weeks and the dealer came out as wanted to see her and said she doesnt like the stable and thats why she's acting up. They convinced me to try for another 2 weeks and it has gotten worse. I contacted them yesterday and they were rude saying she needs to be vetted if shes to come back as ive been banging her hip off the stable door when she charges in, and her hocks are swollen from kicking the walls. As if it's my fault she charges in and kicks the walls! They are also being funny about exchanging the horse and now I just want a refund but don' t think they will give me one even though I am legally entitled to it. Please help me out I'm worried I end up stuck with a horse that is dangerous.


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## Red-1 (17 December 2016)

I would PM Michen, I think she has experience with the law and intricacies of returning a mis-sold horse. 

If it were me, I would start with having the blood sample taken at vetting analysed. If it shows drugs than it would make your case stronger.

I would also check your household insurance/ bank account to see if you have a free legal advice line, to send a Recorded Delivery letter asap stating that the horse is not fit for purpose and you need to return within X number of days for a full refund. Keep a copy of the letter, but do get advice for proper wording.


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## rifruffian (17 December 2016)

Does not sound like a damaged horse. Reads like a human with inadequate experience

If you are outright and undisputed owner of horse and do not want to retain ownership, a solution is for you to sell the horse for the best price you can obtain


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## KittenInTheTree (17 December 2016)

Get her vetted and see if there's a physical problem causing this behaviour - it could be due to ulcers, or hormonal/ovarian related pain, etc. The vet can also advise you how to care for her banged hip and swollen hocks. You own her at present, therefore her health and well-being is your responsibility. If the vet finds there was a pre-existing issue then you can pull the seller up on this, so it could also turn out to be helpful if you do insist on returning her. And FGS stop banging her hip off the stable door, it shan't help! You also need to get someone experienced to teach you how to handle a barging horse safely. Finally, look at her diet and turnout routine, as there may be something there causing issues too.

As far as returning to the dealer, and legal advice, try talking to the BHS Helpline. You will need to be a Gold Member to access this, but it's worth having, and also means you have some insurance cover. Good luck.


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## harveypops (17 December 2016)

Thank you Red-1. I will follow your advice. And rifruffian, excuse me? I have owned horses all my life, and certainly know when one is damaged or not. Wind your neck in!


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## harveypops (17 December 2016)

I am not banging her hip off the stable door!!! Thats what they are accusing me of doing. It wouldnt let me edit this in original post. The dealer also told me on the day she was delivered that she had been sold previously, and was returned in 8 days.


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## kinnygirl1 (17 December 2016)

Didn't want to read and run but I'm not really sure about the legalities of your situation. Did the horse show this behaviour in the stable when you viewed at the dealers yard? Did the dealer give you a timescale in which to exchange the horse when you bought her if you weren't happy with your purchase? Did you have a vetting done? I think if she isn't as described they have to at least offer exchange if it's within a reasonable timescale but I'm not sure. Sorry that you are in this position.


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## harveypops (17 December 2016)

No contract was discussed regarding exchanges or refunds or a timescale. She didnt show this behaviour in the stable however she wasnt fed or rug put on when I was there. Legally I am entitled to a refund but they will only offer an exchange, however aren't replying to my texts now


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## Toby_Zaphod (17 December 2016)

You don't mention if you had the horse vetted prior to buying it. If you did & the vet took a blood sample then you need to contact the vet & have the sample tested. With the behaviour you have described I imagine there would be some substance present in the sample to quieten the horse down. If you didn't have a vetting & a sample taken then you need to speak to Trading Standards. They will be able to advise you regarding your rights when it comes to returning the horse & getting a refund. You will find that you have the same rights as returning something to a normal retailer but they will talk you through everything you need to know & need to do. If the dealer refuses to take the horse back then you may well have to go through the small claims court to get your money back. It's cheap & easy to do. Good Luck.


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## harveypops (17 December 2016)

No I didn't have her vetted. Never have vetted a horse. Ok will do, thanks so much for your help.


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## pepsimaxrock (17 December 2016)

rifruffian said:



			Does not sound like a damaged horse. Reads like a human with inadequate experience
		
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Get out of it you troll.  
This horse is clearly misdescribed and unfit for purpose.  As has been eloquently said wind your neck in


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## Red-1 (17 December 2016)

As I understand it, with a dealer purchase, the horse has to be fit for purpose. That means the dealer has to make enquiries and assess you as a rider/owner before they sell you the horse. 

So, even if you were inexperienced, as long as you did not mislead the dealer, and if it were your handling that had caused issues, then the horse would still have proven unsuitable.

Before anyone jumps down my throat, I do not necessarily agree with this law, but as I understand it, that is the law. It is also a reason I would never be a dealer.

Harveypops, I don't know you or your experience, and am not judging you at all. I am just saying that it does not matter what your experience is, as long as you have not been negligent, then it does not matter why the horse is unsuitable, it just matters that it clearly is.

I say get legal advice ASAP, as I think 30 days is a timescale that matters, bit that if the horse is "faulty" in some way, it does not. I think that Michen would have more accurate info though, as she researched it.


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## Goldenstar (17 December 2016)

rifruffian said:



			Does not sound like a damaged horse. Reads like a human with inadequate experience

If you are outright and undisputed owner of horse and do not want to retain ownership, a solution is for you to sell the horse for the best price you can obtain
		
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No it's not OP bought the horse from a dealer she can return because it's unsuitable for her .
While all this nonsense would not trouble me in least I would just set to to get the horse happy and settled and doing the job I bought it for .
I am unclear on if the horse was vetted ( anyone who buys a horse without a vetting is nuts IMO ) if it had a five stage vetting I would get the bloods tested having discussed with the vet that did the vetting what to test for .
If I were OP I would deliver the horse back to the dealer and issue proceeding to get the money back .


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## Tiddlypom (17 December 2016)

harveypops said:



			No I didn't have her vetted. Never have vetted a horse. Ok will do, thanks so much for your help.
		
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This situation would be much easier to sort out if you had had her vetted.


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## PeterNatt (17 December 2016)

Best to join te BHS as a 'Gold Member' and then ask for legal advice from their Legal Line.
This may help you:
Consumer Rights Act 1 October 2015
Covers all goods including horses, livery yards, riding lessons and horsebox repairs.
Buyers have the right to a 30 day refund for faulty, not as described  (always keep advert) or not fit for purpose goods bought from a business such as dealers. 
Even after 30 days have passed the buyer can still be entitled to a refund - full if under 6 months, or partial if over 6 months but must allow the trader to repair or replace the item first.

However if you buy privately this does not apply.  

Under the new ruling those who do not apply 'reasonable care' as agreed with the consumer will have to put things right such as redo the job or give some money back. 

Under the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 the supplier has a responsibility to supply goods that are of satisfactory quality, being free of inherent defects, durable and fit for purpose.
Services should be provided with reasonable care and skill and that any goods  should be of satisfactory quality.

Letter before action   www.which.co.uk/legal

Under the Unfair Contract Tems Act 1977, the supplier can&#8217;t exclude their responsibility under the Supply of Goods and Services Act1982.  Your rights under the Act require the to provide goods that are of satisfactory quality.
When goods have an inherent defect, abd you&#8217;re not in a position to reject them within a reasonable time, you can insist that the seller provides a remedy, repair or replacement.  They should do this within a reasonable time and without significant inconvenience to you.  Any warranty is in addition to your statutory rights, not instead of them.  If you have to issue legal proceedings, you have up to six years to do so in England and Wales, five in Scotland.  

The Sale of Goods Act 1979 can be relied upon where there are no explicit terms.  The main provision of the act are that goods should be of  &#8216;satisfactory quality&#8217;  and &#8216;fit for their purpose&#8217; which is where the requirements of a business sale comes in.

If someone is acting in the course of a business with a view to making a profit  or a history  of a course of dealings can be shown then section 14 of the act  which relates to implied terms  about quality of fitness will apply to the sale.  The sellers multiple adverts are good evidence of a course of dealing.

They stay in business because no one actually takes any concrete action against them. So they've spent the money, so what, small claims court costs very little to institute proceedings. When you win & get a judgement move the judgement on to the High Court Sherriffs for them to enforce the order. They will either get cash or seize goods to the value of the debt. This service does not cost a vast amount & they do get results. To many people believe what the sellers say about spending the money & haven't got any money to repay. They lied when they sold the horse & they are probably lying now! Get the court judgement & then let loose the sherriffs & go for the jugular!      
Read more at http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/foru...gue-Dealers-Staffs-Derbys#s8w4tS5pOxxcOiDo.99

Equine Solicitors:
SOLICITORS &#8211; EQUINE

Deborah Hargreaves
Edmondson Hall Solicitors and Sports Lawyers
25 Exeter Road
Newmarket
Suffolk
CB8 8AR
Tel: 01638 560556
Tel: 01638 564483
E: solicitors@edmondsonhall.com
E: ah@edmondsonhall.com
www.edmondsonhall.com/page/1r6ef/Home/partner.html
Wroyte an article on The Legal pitfalls of Buying and Selling Horses

Actons
Tel: 0115 91002200  Caroline Bowler

Mark Carter
White Bowker Solicitors
Tel: 01962 844440
www.wandb.co.uk
mark.carter@wandb.co.uk

Helen Niebuhr
Darbys Solicitors
52 New Inn Hall Street
Oxford
OX1 2QD
Tel: 01865 811 7000
       01865 811712
Fax: 01865 811 777
www.equine-law.net
E: equine@darbys.co.uk

Jaqcui Fulton Equine Law
Tel: 0121 308 5915
jf@equinelawuk.co.uk
www.equinelawuk.co.uk

Hannah Campbell                  (Specialise in compensation cases)
Tel: 01446 794196		(Specialises in traffic accidents involving horses)
www.horsesolicitor.co.uk
info@horse solicitor

Elizabeth Simpson Senior Solicitor at law firm Andrew M Jackson
Tel: 01482 325242
www.andrewjackson.co.uk
enquiries@andrewjackson.co.uk

David Forbes or Belinda Walkinshaw
Pickworths Solicitors
6 Victoria Street
St Albans
Hertfordshire
AL1 3JB
01727 844511

Mark de-villamar Roberts 
Langleys Solicitors Equine Law Group
Tel: 01904 683051
E: mark.Roberts@langleys.com
www.equinelawyers.co.uk

Elizabeth Simpson
Senior Solicitor
Andrew Jackson
Yorkshire
Tel: 01482 325242
www.andrewjackson.co.uk

Richmond Solicitors
13-15 High Street
Keynsham
Bristol
BS31 1DP
Tel: 0117 986 9555
Fax: 0117 986 8680
enquiries@richmonssolicitorsco.uk

Jacqui Fulton
Giselle Robinson Solicitors

Inderjit Gill
Jacksons Specialist Equine Solicitor
Represented Gaynor Goodall in an accident on a bridleway on Tameside County Court 01 February 2010

Knights Solicitors  
Tunbridge Wells
Tel: 01892 537311
www.knights-solicitors.co.uk
Work with GRC Commercial Bailiffs
Senior partner very good on equine matters

Horse Solicitor
Tel: 01446 794 196
info@horsesolicitor.co.uk
www.horsesolicitor.com

www.laytons.com

Mary Ann Reay Charles or Chris Shaw
Shaw and Co Solicitors
Equine Law Specialists
Tel: 0800 019 1248
info@shawandco.com
www.shawandco.com

Arnold Thomson
205 Watling Street West
Towcester
Northants
NN12 6BX
Tel: 01327 350266
Fax: 01327 353567
www.arnoldthomson.com
enquiries@arnoldthomson.com

Tozers   www.tozers.co.uk

Eleanor Temple Barrister from Kings Chambers in Leeds
Tel: 0113 242 1123
www.kingschambers.com


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## scats (17 December 2016)

I'm not sure what advice to offer other than get some legal help to see where you stand.  I wish you all the best, this must be an awful situation to be in xx


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## popsdosh (17 December 2016)

pepsimaxrock said:



			Get out of it you troll.  
This horse is clearly misdescribed and unfit for purpose.  As has been eloquently said wind your neck in
		
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Not sure who the troll is at the moment to be honest .mis sold horses are a particular favourite .


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## Sparemare (17 December 2016)

It's a tough call if the mare wasn't vetted as you can't prove that she wasn't drugged when you tried her.


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## jhoward (17 December 2016)

popsdosh said:



			Not sure who the troll is at the moment to be honest .mis sold horses are a particular favourite .
		
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Lol I thought that too


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## harveypops (17 December 2016)

Thanks for the help to anyone who has given me advice. I appreciate it. There also seems to be a few know it alls on this post, oh if only I was as perfect as you lot!


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## harveypops (17 December 2016)

If you aren't here to offer advice, don't bother commenting. That is all!


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## Tiddlypom (17 December 2016)

harveypops said:



			If you aren't here to offer advice, don't bother commenting. That is all!
		
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Troll alert...


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## popsdosh (17 December 2016)

Also new posters who get gobby straight off!  its their USP !


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## harveypops (17 December 2016)

tiddlypop and popsdosh, not sure if you have anything better to do with your lives, you must be so bored. Sorry for you!


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## harveypops (17 December 2016)

And acting if you're the bees knees because you've been on an online forum longer than someone. Laughable!


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## Tiddlypom (17 December 2016)

harveypops said:



			tiddlypop and popsdosh, not sure if you have anything better to do with your lives, you must be so bored. Sorry for you!
		
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Troll confirmation.


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## harveypops (17 December 2016)

'Old nag'... that explains it.


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## KittenInTheTree (17 December 2016)

Tiddlypom said:



			Troll confirmation.
		
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To be fair, not all people who somehow manage to have horses all their lives without learning how to handle them safely and competently are trolls. Some of them are just completely genuine rude and aggressive posters.

<sharpens claws>


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## Rowreach (17 December 2016)

KittenInTheXmasTree said:



			To be fair, not all people who somehow manage to have horses all their lives without learning how to handle them safely and competently are trolls. Some of them are just completely genuine rude and aggressive posters.

<sharpens claws>
		
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Well there's only Strictly on after all.  By the way, do you live near me KITXT?


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## popsdosh (17 December 2016)

KittenInTheXmasTree said:



			To be fair, not all people who somehow manage to have horses all their lives without learning how to handle them safely and competently are trolls. Some of them are just completely genuine rude and aggressive posters.

<sharpens claws>
		
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  Its becoming regular saturday night sport!


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## KittenInTheTree (17 December 2016)

Rowreach said:



			Well there's only Strictly on after all.  By the way, do you live near me KITXT?
		
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Not sure, Rowreach - what side of this soggy little island are you based on?


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## Rowreach (17 December 2016)

KittenInTheXmasTree said:



			Not sure, Rowreach - what side of this soggy little island are you based on?
		
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The soggiest bit in the wild west of NI


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## KittenInTheTree (17 December 2016)

Rowreach said:



			The soggiest bit in the wild west of NI
		
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I'm over on the opposite coast to you then


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## LD&S (17 December 2016)

popsdosh said:



			Not sure who the troll is at the moment to be honest .mis sold horses are a particular favourite .
		
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I'm not sure but I seem to have a very distant memory of Riffrufian posting under another name a few years ago whilst at the same time using Riffrufian and I think some of them were quite inflammatory but I could easily be wrong.


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## Mince Pie (17 December 2016)

To be honest, I wouldn't be too impressed with some of the responses on this thread! Slight difference between a bolshy horse and one who would and could cave your skull in. 
OP the first thing I'd suggest is getting a vet out, she sounds like she's sore somewhere - ulcers?


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## Michen (17 December 2016)

Sure do. Mine was a little trickier as it was supposedly a private sale but the woman was actually a dealer/equestrian professional (well...). 

OP I am happy to help if you want to PM me but first thing to do would be to write a "letter before action" and send recorded delivery. Happy to share mine if it helps. 

I would add though that you do need an element of professional support on this even if it's just an hour with a solicitor. I absolutely could not have gone through what I went through without the help of a friend, there were times throughout the whole process where I was absolutely beyond stressed. 



Red-1 said:



			I would PM Michen, I think she has experience with the law and intricacies of returning a mis-sold horse. 

If it were me, I would start with having the blood sample taken at vetting analysed. If it shows drugs than it would make your case stronger.

I would also check your household insurance/ bank account to see if you have a free legal advice line, to send a Recorded Delivery letter asap stating that the horse is not fit for purpose and you need to return within X number of days for a full refund. Keep a copy of the letter, but do get advice for proper wording.
		
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## charlie76 (17 December 2016)

can you pm the name of this horse? I sold one a year go ( with a brutally honest advert for peanuts) that sounds just like this one.


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## rachk89 (18 December 2016)

Well if the OP isnt a troll they have just had a few reasons to not like people on this forum haven't they?

Anyway OP since you didn't get the horse vetted I am not sure what your chances are on getting the dealer to take her back if they refuse. You have also acknowledged that before you even got her home she acted up and you still bought her. So its not a great argument for her being mis-sold. 

However I would get a vet out to do a full check on her and see if they find anything. At least then when the vet sees how dangerous she is you will have an argument for her being mis-sold.


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## KittenInTheTree (18 December 2016)

rachk89 said:



			Well if the OP isnt a troll they have just had a few reasons to not like people on this forum haven't they?

Anyway OP since you didn't get the horse vetted I am not sure what your chances are on getting the dealer to take her back if they refuse. You have also acknowledged that before you even got her home she acted up and you still bought her. So its not a great argument for her being mis-sold. 

However I would get a vet out to do a full check on her and see if they find anything. At least then when the vet sees how dangerous she is you will have an argument for her being mis-sold.
		
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I suggested getting the vet in my first reply, but the OP ignored that part. I don't especially care whether anyone likes me. HTH.


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## Velcrobum (18 December 2016)

harveypops said:



			'Old nag'... that explains it.
		
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Actually that refers to the number of posts a person has made and is automatically changed by the forum.

OP have you looked at any of the extensive helpful posts since last night as you seem to have gone rather quiet.


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## paddy555 (18 December 2016)

OP, you haven't provided a piece of info. You said the dealer came out and saw  her in her new surroundings. Did she play  up for the dealer's visit? was she kicking, being nasty, bucking etc etc whilst he was there or could he handle her quite easily? 

That for me would have answered a lot of questions. ie was she just playing up for you, in a new home etc or did the dealer have equal problems with her? Did he give any advice on how to make her happier in her new stable?


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## ycbm (18 December 2016)

I have never in my life met a dealer who would tell a buyer that a horse has been sold previously and was returned after eight days.

And if they did, i would take this as full disclosure that the horse had serious problems.

If you have a leg to stand on legally, then someone should kick it out from under you.


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## Red-1 (18 December 2016)

ycbm said:



			I have never in my life met a dealer who would tell a buyer that a horse has been sold previously and was returned after eight days.

And if they did, i would take this as full disclosure that the horse had serious problems.

If you have a leg to stand on legally, then someone should kick it out from under you.
		
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I believe the dealer only told her this once it was delivered, and presumably paid for.


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## ycbm (18 December 2016)

Red-1 said:



			I believe the dealer only told her this once it was delivered, and presumably paid for.
		
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Then I misunderstood, but seriously, when has any dealer ever told a buyer that the horse was previously sold and returned? It makes no sense whatsoever.


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## onemoretime (18 December 2016)

harveypops said:



			Thank you Red-1. I will follow your advice. And rifruffian, excuse me? I have owned horses all my life, and certainly know when one is damaged or not. Wind your neck in!
		
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   Well said!!!


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## onemoretime (18 December 2016)

Toby_Zaphod said:



			You don't mention if you had the horse vetted prior to buying it. If you did & the vet took a blood sample then you need to contact the vet & have the sample tested. With the behaviour you have described I imagine there would be some substance present in the sample to quieten the horse down. If you didn't have a vetting & a sample taken then you need to speak to Trading Standards. They will be able to advise you regarding your rights when it comes to returning the horse & getting a refund. You will find that you have the same rights as returning something to a normal retailer but they will talk you through everything you need to know & need to do. If the dealer refuses to take the horse back then you may well have to go through the small claims court to get your money back. It's cheap & easy to do. Good Luck.
		
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  Agree with this!


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## Red-1 (18 December 2016)

ycbm said:



			Then I misunderstood, but seriously, when has any dealer ever told a buyer that the horse was previously sold and returned? It makes no sense whatsoever.
		
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This horse was initially sold as easy (forget actual wording on OP) so I imagine it was a surprise to OP to be told that, but I can see how in the excitement of the new arrival it was not investigated further. 

I had to reply to you, as my Jay Man was sold to me as having been returned by the previous buyer (a professional eventer), with major problems (rear and nap). He now has wobblers and is retired pending worsening of symptoms, but we had many happy years together doing BE, BS, BD, Trec, beach rides before this happened..... The person I bought him from was honest and it did not make the horse a disaster. It was a dealer, and he made sure the horse's history was freely and honestly given.


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## ycbm (18 December 2016)

I can never help a wry smile when people say that buyers of horses from a dealer have the same rights as buyers of anything else. It is true, in essence, but jumpers don't change their behaviour after you've got then home, or turn a different shape because of how they are handled.

It's far from as easy to return a horse to a dealer as a fridge to a shop, and court cases may not go in your favour.


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## ycbm (18 December 2016)

Red-1 said:



			This horse was initially sold as easy (forget actual wording on OP) so I imagine it was a surprise to OP to be told that, but I can see how in the excitement of the new arrival it was not investigated further. 

I had to reply to you, as my Jay Man was sold to me as having been returned by the previous buyer (a professional eventer), with major problems (rear and nap). He now has wobblers and is retired pending worsening of symptoms, but we had many happy years together doing BE, BS, BD, Trec, beach rides before this happened..... The person I bought him from was honest and it did not make the horse a disaster. It was a dealer, and he made sure the horse's history was freely and honestly given.
		
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Fair enough


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## popsdosh (19 December 2016)

Velcrobum said:



			Actually that refers to the number of posts a person has made and is automatically changed by the forum.

OP have you looked at any of the extensive helpful posts since last night as you seem to have gone rather quiet.
		
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Thats what Trolls do wind everybody else up! LOL same MO same few fall for it!


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## ycbm (19 December 2016)

popsdosh said:



			Thats what Trolls do wind everybody else up! LOL same MO same few fall for it!
		
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People like to help, popsdosh, so they give the benefit of the doubt. But we are absolutely plagued with them recently, aren't we? Another unbelievable one this morning.


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## popsdosh (19 December 2016)

ycbm said:



			People like to help, popsdosh, so they give the benefit of the doubt. But we are absolutely plagued with them recently, aren't we? Another unbelievable one this morning.
		
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Yes I have just been nasty to them too!!!


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## YasandCrystal (19 December 2016)

OP my WB was exactly like this he was angelic at trial and vetting and passed a 5 stage with flying colours.as soon as I got him home he became an aggressive monster who who would bite, kick or strike at every opportunity. Mine was eventually diagnosed with chronic sacro iliac dysfunction. Finally rehabbed now and the sweetest horse.
Horses only scream at you when they are in pain and they know for sure you won't beat them into next week.


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## Goldenstar (19 December 2016)

I have no trolldar fitted can you get a retro fit .


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## ycbm (19 December 2016)

Goldenstar said:



			I have no trolldar fitted can you get a retro fit .
		
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I think Halfords do one but it depends whether they can get at your wiring loom.






Poster has very short record of posting.
First major post is full of drama.
Poster throws toys right out of pram if anyone posts something they don't like.
Language/grammar/punctuation varies in or between posts.
Poster sounds older/younger from post to post.
Poster's relative/friend borrows logon to update about OP
Story is simply not credible when combined with above stuff.
Some trolls are recognisable as previous offenders by the way they write.


Any I've missed guys?



I expect we are wrong sometimes and upset some nice people, but I've seen so many members of this forum feel betrayed by people they've tried to help, so I think it's balanced.


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## LD&S (19 December 2016)

ycbm said:



			I think Halfords do one but it depends whether they can get at your wiring loom.






Poster has very short record of posting.
First major post is full of drama.
Poster throws toys right out of pram if anyone posts something they don't like.
Language/grammar/punctuation varies in or between posts.
Poster sounds older/younger from post to post.
Poster's relative/friend borrows logon to update about OP
Story is simply not credible when combined with above stuff.
Some trolls are recognisable as previous offenders by the way they write.


Any I've missed guys?



I expect we are wrong sometimes and upset some nice people, but I've seen so many members of this forum feel betrayed by people they've tried to help, so I think it's balanced.
		
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I know I'm a complete wally when it comes to trolls, thank you for the guide but sadly as it doesn't come with flashing lights and an audible warning I'll probably still not recognise one lol


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## Luci07 (19 December 2016)

I'm useless at spotting a troll too...luckily there are far more switched on posters so I read their comments first!

Re more protection if you buy through a dealer. Legally, yes there is. Reality is that you can go to court and end up being paid back an absolute pittance. 

I bought from a dealer. Mine had 2 "quirks" both of which were fully disclosed. One was putting boots on and generally handling back legs and other was touching ears. Both could be done but horses reaction was extreme. Both were checked in the vetting and while horse is still not keen on his ears being trimmed/touched, he will tolerate it and no longer cares about his back legs.


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## ycbm (19 December 2016)

ycbm said:



			I think Halfords do one but it depends whether they can get at your wiring loom.






Poster has very short record of posting.
First major post is full of drama.
Poster throws toys right out of pram if anyone posts something they don't like.
Language/grammar/punctuation varies in or between posts.
Poster sounds older/younger from post to post.
Poster's relative/friend borrows logon to update about OP
Story is simply not credible when combined with above stuff.
Some trolls are recognisable as previous offenders by the way they write.


Any I've missed guys?



I expect we are wrong sometimes and upset some nice people, but I've seen so many members of this forum feel betrayed by people they've tried to help, so I think it's balanced.
		
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Missed one. Happened on the other troll thread. Simple mistakes. They do things like claim to be foreign and then quote the heights they are jumping in feet and inches (and make the very typical British mistake of using " for the abbreviation for feet when it should be ').   It's a long time since any courses were set at feet and inches in this country, and even longer/never since they were anything but metric in non English speaking countries. Anyone used to describing show jumps in feet and inches would have been living in this country for absolutely years - so they wouldn't  then apologise for being a foreigner with poor use of English, would they???


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## [59668] (19 December 2016)

popsdosh said:



			Yes I have just been nasty to them too!!!
		
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How lovely. You must feel very proud. Well done.


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## [59668] (19 December 2016)

ycbm said:



			Missed one. Happened on the other troll thread. Simple mistakes. They do things like claim to be foreign and then quote the heights they are jumping in feet and inches (and make the very typical British mistake of using " for the abbreviation for feet when it should be ').   It's a long time since any courses were set at feet and inches in this country, and even longer/never since they were anything but metric in non English speaking countries. Anyone used to describing show jumps in feet and inches would have been living in this country for absolutely years - so they wouldn't  then apologise for being a foreigner with poor use of English, would they???
		
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Take a step back and look at what you just wrote. 

Does it matter if they are a "troll"? Just take a second and think "what if this were real". 

For what it's worth there are classes for children on horses. Even in the UK. 

And a lot of people still think in ft and inches. I do. Even if the classes are described in cm. Which they aren't always.


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## popsdosh (20 December 2016)

[59668] said:



			How lovely. You must feel very proud. Well done.
		
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They stand out a mile and im sticking with it ! It was a comment which was full of irony because I knew I would be deemed 'mister nasty' for suggesting it but I guess that goes over some heads. Trolls trade on making people feel sorry for them.
see so many troll threads on here however the most usual ones are new posters with stories of injured riders, mis sold horses, or strangles as they know people will respond ! They are also like Santa always around at christmas.

I dont do it lightly but I also hate to see so many posters reply and put all their emotions in to it and believe the story and frankly waste their time.


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## ycbm (20 December 2016)

[59668] said:



			Take a step back and look at what you just wrote. 

Does it matter if they are a "troll"? Just take a second and think "what if this were real".
		
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But it isn't. That's been proved by them now saying that they are restricted to three hours a day visiting a ten year old child in an intensive care unit.




			For what it's worth there are classes for children on horses. Even in the UK.
		
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I'm not sure of the relevance of that?  I sold a sixteen hands horse to an eleven year old and a sixteen two to a twelve year old. The child wasn't competing on the horse, or going to. The parent was sourcing a pony for the next season.




			And a lot of people still think in ft and inches. I do. Even if the classes are described in cm. Which they aren't always.
		
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The poster claims to be French. The French invented the metric system in the mid 1600s.



I am with Popsdosh. I have seen people feel utterly betrayed by falling for trolls like this. There are still people upset over ones that happened years ago. If one person is upset and goes away and gets help from a more appropriate source, then that's balanced by a hundred lesser upsets when a troll is stopped, especially one as emotive as the French one.  That's why I call them out.


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## ycbm (20 December 2016)

I've got another one for the troll spotter list. First troll posts are usually much longer than normal.


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## Leo Walker (20 December 2016)

[59668] said:



			How lovely. You must feel very proud. Well done.
		
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Its a disgusting attitude. Why would anyone be proud of behaving like that whatever the circumstances



[59668] said:



			Take a step back and look at what you just wrote. 

Does it matter if they are a "troll"? Just take a second and think "what if this were real". 

For what it's worth there are classes for children on horses. Even in the UK. 

And a lot of people still think in ft and inches. I do. Even if the classes are described in cm. Which they aren't always.
		
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It doesn't matter at all, well apart from the smug people congratulating themselves on "outing them".  I'm embarrassed to be part of something where people think its ok to behave like that.

If someone went back through my posts you would find inconsistencies and contradictions all over the place. Its the nature of a forum. When I post I post about how things are and how I feel that day. I forget things and leave them out, I over emphasise other things as thats whats important to me at that time. 

If someone goes to the trouble of making up posts theres usually a reason behind it, either that person has mental health issues and needs support, or they are looking to start a fight. Both good reasons not to engage in rude, nasty behaviour. 

And at the end of the day, it doesnt matter whether its true or not, the next person to read this thread might actually be in that situation and in desperate need of support and advice. I doubt they would post after reading this fiasco.


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## D66 (20 December 2016)

I agree with Frankiecob, though I read [59668] comment as being sarcastic.


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## ycbm (20 December 2016)

None of my posts are smug. If you read them that way then you are mistaken. I write them in response to emotional hurt written about every time people are caught out by a troll, sometimes for years afterwards. Trolls out themselves in the end because they want the attention. That's why the answer to 'what harm would it do to ignore them if you don't believe them'  is 'lots'.  The damage they do prevents genuine people from getting support they may need.


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## YorksG (20 December 2016)

There are also other problems when people "go with" the troll posts, there have been occasions when donations have been given (long time ago admittedly)and I did wonder if the medical bills would be a problem before too long......


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## [59668] (20 December 2016)

D66 said:



			I agree with Frankiecob, though I read [59668] comment as being sarcastic.
		
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Yes I was being sarcastic! I'm just disgusted at the attitude of some people.


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## Leo Walker (20 December 2016)

FestiveG said:



			There are also other problems when people "go with" the troll posts, there have been occasions when donations have been given (long time ago admittedly)and I did wonder if the medical bills would be a problem before too long......
		
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Then thats the point to start saying people might not be genuine. Unfortunately I cant see YCBMs response as shes on user ignore.


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## Leo Walker (20 December 2016)

[59668] said:



			Yes I was being sarcastic! I'm just disgusted at the attitude of some people.
		
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Sorry, I was agreeing with you, but it didnt quote the original bit, just yours, sorry!


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## [59668] (20 December 2016)

FrankieCob said:



			Sorry, I was agreeing with you, but it didnt quote the original bit, just yours, sorry! 

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Haha no problem!  Also just glad I am not the only one who feels this way!


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## MDB (20 December 2016)

With regard to the OP being French but using feet and inches measures indicating her being a troll, I would like to  point out something. Some of you know that I live in Spain. I never had horses in the UK. There are some things of a horse nature that I only know the Spanish words for, not the English words. Is it beyond the realms of possibility that the OP learnt her English in some place that measures feet and inches and she has kept this habit? Whether she is a troll or not, I stand by my first reply to her. If she is genuine she will need all the support she gets. If she isn't then really I won't be losing sleep over it.


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## MDB (20 December 2016)

MDB said:



			With regard to the OP being French but using feet and inches measures indicating her being a troll, I would like to  point out something. Some of you know that I live in Spain. I never had horses in the UK. There are some things of a horse nature that I only know the Spanish words for, not the English words. Is it beyond the realms of possibility that the OP learnt her English in some place that measures feet and inches and she has kept this habit? Whether she is a troll or not, I stand by my first reply to her. If she is genuine she will need all the support she gets. If she isn't then really I won't be losing sleep over it.
		
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Sorry, thus was written in error and was supposed to be a response to another thread.


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