# Rescue terrier - at my wits end, please help!



## Mince Pie (7 February 2015)

I am currently looking after a friend's 2 year old rescue border terrier x patterdale bitch. She is a very lovely, loyal, little dog but has a lot of issues which need to be addressed - I've had the dog for 2 months now with another month to go so am attempting to train her just to get some peace! She has a lot of energy which I expected, unfortunately this excitable energy means that she can turn on any of the other 3 dogs in the house (my 2, and my OH's dog) in an instant. She is obsessed with certain things - next doors cat which she watches out the window and the hamster at the moment. She has a crate but was locked in her crate for most of her life so I am loathe to use it too much, when she has been crated in my house she is always crated with my JRT for company. She was rescued in September so still a very new dog into the pack and has come a long way since she arrived.

I am seriously at my wits end with this dog, especially with the hamster. I've tried a tin full of pebbles to make a noise when she jumps up at the hamster which she was very scared of, so I switched to a water pistol and am now squirting her when she jumps up at the hamster. This works as long as I'm in the room next to her, and I can spend hours getting her to ignore the hamster only for her to obsess over him again the next day. I'm used to high energy dogs, I have a very hyperactive collie and a JRT and know that she needs mental and physical stimulation which she is getting.


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## Maesfen (7 February 2015)

Personally, I'd move the hamster for a start, no use putting temptation her way, that's setting up for calamity in one way or the other when there's no need; there will always come a time when you have to rush out without remembering and it'll be wham bam, thank you mam and curtains for the hamster.
It's not that she's high energy, it's because she's a terrier that she's acting this way; small furry things are there for them to hunt and dig out, it's bred into them and particularly with a Patterdale.  They can be the nicest dogs in the world but at the end of the day, they are hunting dogs; the fact that your friend didn't get her until late doesn't help as the nature of her breeding is already engrained into her; if you had had her as a 8 week pup you might have had a better chance of success although IME of Patterdales, I very much doubt it, I'm sorry.  The fact she's half BT doesn't really come into it as the Patterdale nearly always shows through more with those crosses, they do tend to be the dominant breed.


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## CAYLA (7 February 2015)

Everything Maesfen said. When I get an  enquiry to take a rescue in and they say" Patterdale " followed by "It has no issues it's just I don't have the time for it"   I'm like "WTF ever" I have more respect for folk who tell me the truth . I will still take the dog no matter. Patterdales are like super clever hard wired little machines and they can really struggle with life living as a pampered pooch as so many try and do to them (not aimed at you op). And they are tough nuts to crack lol. As well as stimulation these dogs need some boundaries (In fact more so than stimulation) Imo. You should be able to get a handle of her excited aggression towards the dogs with a clear and repetitive firm consequence and changing the way your handle some pack situations but the hamster Is asking to much. We can ask a lot from our dogs  but to ask for a terrier not to want to fixate on what's hard wired for it to kill is where we go to far. As suggested banish the hamster upstairs and deny her access to the area (this is more realistic) how are you tackling her excited aggressive attempts towards your dog's and what sets it off? This is actually very easy to work with if you go about it in the correct manner.


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## HashRouge (7 February 2015)

Another vote for moving the hamster!


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## Exploding Chestnuts (7 February 2015)

Can she go outside with another rather than being a housepet?


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## D66 (7 February 2015)

The hamster is on borrowed time until the terrier and it are separated - preferably different houses.  From experience.


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## Mince Pie (7 February 2015)

To clarify a couple of points, I live in a mobile home, as does my friend, we both have a cat flap so the dog in question along with my JRT have constant access to an enclosed garden. The hamster belongs to my friend and normally lives in her living room - as well as the hamster the dog also has to contend with 2 cats, a bearded dragon and a snake!
We've installed a "leave it" command with the help of a water pistol which I have with me at all times, however when she goes for other dogs she is a little unpredictable as to which dogs she doesn't like and very quick to escalate things. As she was unsocialised until last September we have the feeling that it's a case of 'I'm going to get you before you get me'. If she has a go at one of our 'pack' then a yell from one of us usually puts an end to it. She's never actually bitten, or drawn blood from another dog, it's usually just a lot of noise before we can step in. I have an area where she can have a guaranteed run with only one other dog who she gets on with.
As I said she is a cracking little dog under all the issues, she is still on trial with my friend and my friend is fully aware that she may need to be re-homed again if she doesn't settle with the cats. It doesn't help that our 'pack' includes a rescue staffy who is 12, my 8 year old wussy sheepdog who wouldn't say boo to a goose, and a 7 month old JRT. Another issue is that she is not spayed, the plan was to get her done last year but she came into season almost straight away and the vets wouldn't spay before 3 months had passed, she was supposed to be done in January but my friend's sister passed away in South Africa just before Christmas so obviously the spay has been put on hold.

The issues I can think of so far are:
The hamster
The cats
Unpredictability with other dogs - we've narrowed this down to anything smaller than her and usually put her on a lead if we see a potential problem
Other dogs when she is on the lead - she will stand on her back legs, straining to get to the other dog and screaming her head off whilst doing so, if she is allowed to meet other dogs on the lead she will normally attack them
Barking and screaming at anything she can see moving out of the window - cars, people, cats etc.
Possessiveness over 'her' toys, food, bed etc - I've said 'her' because she will claim things and then get possessive over them.

To be honest, I am really at my wits end with this dog and only the fact that I share dog sitting duties with my OH has stopped both of us from losing the plot completely with her. We still have another 5 weeks until her owner comes home and quite frankly I will be glad to see the back of her for a while! She and my pup get on extremely well and she and my older sheepdog just stay out of each others way. She gets on with my OH's staffy as she'll push her luck, he'll tell her to sod off and she'll back down. With my older boy he'll back down so she gets pushy and bossy with him. 

She comes across as a bolshy little so and so but I believe it's a front and she's not as cocky as she makes out to be. She adores people and is a cuddly little dog who is generally quick to obey a command, she is allowed on the furniture but knows that "off" means off, no ifs or buts. She is now fine to be fed with my 2 other dogs and is generally well behaved at meal times. We usually have problems if she's fixated on something else beforehand (cats/hamster etc) and has pent up nervous energy which is usually when she starts a fight with one of the others. She is on Skinners maintenance along with my older collie.


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## MurphysMinder (8 February 2015)

It sounds as if the dog has had quite a lot of change recently,  a new home where she has come into season, then after just a few weeks with this new owner she is moved on to you.  I would imagine she is probably very unsettled,  and for a patterdale x to live with so many other animals in the fairly limited space of a mobile home does sound like a bit of a recipe for disaster.  You say she is still on trial - if she is from a decent rescue I would suggest you talk to them and ask for help,  you and your friend are starting with a dog who through breed can be challenging , and then adding in other factors which aren't going to help at all.


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## Maesfen (8 February 2015)

A double dose of this  ^^^^^  Would it not be better that she goes back to the rescue again until at least your friend is home to take responsibility for her again?
While nobody could foresee the sad death which has led to your problems, I think the rescue must hold their hands up and say they got it wrong in the first place.  As others have said, a Patterdale is not a simple breed to rehome, particularly to  that mix of other animals; they should have done their homework more thoroughly regardless of how good your friend is with this dog,   Another breed you might have got away with it but not something like a Patterdale.

I feel so sorry for her, she will be one very mixed up little pup.


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## Smitty (9 February 2015)

I had a rescue patterdale x jrt and wholeheartedly agree with all the above posts.I cannot imagine mine living in harmony with that amount or mix of animals without bloodshed.

I used a halti to walk him as he exhibited the same behaviour as yours, and found it a big help  -  it was easier to prevent him going OTT.


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## Alec Swan (9 February 2015)

Maesfen said:



			Personally, I'd move the hamster for a start, no use putting temptation her way, that's setting up for calamity in one way or the other when there's no need; there will always come a time when you have to rush out without remembering and it'll be wham bam, thank you mam and curtains for the hamster.
It's not that she's high energy, it's because she's a terrier that she's acting this way; small furry things are there for them to hunt and dig out, it's bred into them and particularly with a Patterdale.  They can be the nicest dogs in the world but at the end of the day, they are hunting dogs; the fact that your friend didn't get her until late doesn't help as the nature of her breeding is already engrained into her; if you had had her as a 8 week pup you might have had a better chance of success although IME of Patterdales, I very much doubt it, I'm sorry.  The fact she's half BT doesn't really come into it as the Patterdale nearly always shows through more with those crosses, they do tend to be the dominant breed.
		
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^^^^ This!



CAYLA said:



			&#8230;&#8230;.. . Patterdales are like super clever hard wired little machines and they can really struggle with life living as a pampered pooch as so many try and do to them (not aimed at you op). And they are tough nuts to crack lol. As well as stimulation these dogs need some boundaries (In fact more so than stimulation) Imo. &#8230;&#8230;..
		
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And equally,  ^^^^ This!  Though it is never easy with certain terriers,  working 'with' the problem,  and redirecting the energy and attitude displays,  is perhaps the better way than attempting to eradicate generations of built in reson-detre.  The 'reward' for such dogs can sometimes be achieved by redirection,  though I'll admit that whilst having seen the successes of a few others,  I've yet to succeed!  Those who keep and use working terriers,  for countless generations,  have encouraged the little 'darlings' to be as they are,  and attempting to rub out their temperaments all so often leads to disappointment.  

I love the attitude which some terriers display,  but will never again keep a hard-wired individual!  Jeckyl and Hyde springs to mind!

Alec.


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## Clodagh (9 February 2015)

I don't think patterdales make pets. The MFHA actually recommened against having them for foxes years ago as they were too hard, I can't see how a dog that would go in all guns blazing against a fox or a badger will make a nice pet. OH had a few, all rehomes that people couldn't cope with and they were hard as nails and good dogs to work but had no sense of back off or self preservation.
He aolso had some crosses, and as Maesfen says they all took after the patt half.


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## Amymay (9 February 2015)

But there's always an exception.  A friend has one, and she really is the lovliest, most gentle dog. And a wonderful family pet.


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## ace33 (9 February 2015)

I have a 10yo patterdale that I've had when she was 10wks old. I'm an experienced do owner and have 6 others currently. She is a dog that will permanently test you if given half a chance, but discipline and obedience has to be instilled and she doesn't pay much attention to anyone else. I can call her off a chase with anything but a fox and she does not worry horses or stock. She lives with a cat and they have a mutual respect but she wouldn't hesitate to kill any other cat. She is not interested in other dogs when we are out, she just sticks with me and ignores them but will attack if they approach her, she doesn't have a noticeable warning and has to be muzzled in the house if we are busy and separate from all other animals if we can't supervise. I can run her out with my other dogs as she has the space to do her own thing.


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## ace33 (9 February 2015)

ace33 said:



			I have a 10yo patterdale that I've had when she was 10wks old. I'm an experienced do owner and have 6 others currently. She is a dog that will permanently test you if given half a chance, but discipline and obedience has to be instilled and she doesn't pay much attention to anyone else. I can call her off a chase with anything but a fox and she does not worry horses or stock. She lives with a cat and they have a mutual respect but she wouldn't hesitate to kill any other cat. She is not interested in other dogs when we are out, she just sticks with me and ignores them but will attack if they approach her, she doesn't have a noticeable warning and has to be muzzled in the house if we are busy and separate from all other animals if we can't supervise. I can run her out with my other dogs as she has the space to do her own thing.
		
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This makes her sound like an awful dog, she's not I love her greatly and she is perfectly behaved with humans (including children) and would be an exceptional only pet.


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## Alec Swan (9 February 2015)

ace33 said:



			I have a 10yo patterdale that I've had when she was 10wks old. I'm an experienced do owner and have 6 others currently. She is a dog that will permanently test you if given half a chance, but discipline and obedience has to be instilled and she doesn't pay much attention to anyone else. I can call her off a chase with anything but a fox and she does not worry horses or stock. She lives with a cat and they have a mutual respect but she wouldn't hesitate to kill any other cat. She is not interested in other dogs when we are out, she just sticks with me and ignores them but will attack if they approach her, she doesn't have a noticeable warning and has to be muzzled in the house if we are busy and separate from all other animals if we can't supervise. I can run her out with my other dogs as she has the space to do her own thing.
		
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ace33 said:



			This makes her sound like an awful dog,.. .
		
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No it doesn't,  it sounds like she has a realistic owner who's accepted her for the way that she is,  and has accepted that there are limits,  to our achievements! 

Bloody Terriers! 

Alec.

ets,  it also sounds like you have an excellent relationship,  with her!


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## ace33 (9 February 2015)

Alec Swan said:



			No it doesn't,  it sounds like she has a realistic owner who's accepted her for the way that she is,  and has accepted that there are limits,  to our achievements! 

Bloody Terriers! 

Alec.

ets,  it also sounds like you have an excellent relationship,  with her!
		
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My partner thought she could train her out of it, I have tried for almost a decade and realised it is just safer and easier to manage it. It's not her fault as such, they have been bred this way for years and no amount of training will stop that, you wouldn't know her real temperament if you saw her following me around like a little lamb on a day to day basis. She will be my last tho.


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## Mince Pie (9 February 2015)

She wasn't from a rescue centre, she was being given away for free on Facebook. My friend messaged the previous owner (her second owners who had her for 6 weeks) to advise them not to do so as there is a big dog fighting ring fairly near by in Plymouth. My friend has always wanted a BT so we ended up going to see her to see if we could help, however the previous owner was adamant she wanted the dog out of her house so we ended up coming home with her! She has known me since day 1 so I am not a new person in her life. 
We're both experienced dog owners and my friend has studied animal behaviour,   however I'm new to terriers having mainly been around gun dog breeds and sheepdogs. However we are completely on our own with her, she's not yet able to join a mixed dog training class and I don't have the money to pay for one on one sessions. Being honest I don't believe my friend does either.


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## twiggy2 (9 February 2015)

I love patterdales, they are however the most hard head headed and prey driven dogs I have ever met, for the prey drive some lurchers come close but not many.

for 2 experienced dog owners it seems little research was done into the breed and its traits, allowing free indoor and outdoor access often just leads to boundary guarding-it is also likely to increase conflict at access points as the dogs are left to sort out the control in these areas at times of increased excitement or stress. expecting the dog to leave a hamster alone is asking too much and it will try to keep all other dogs away. the dog is not attacking your other dogs-if it was there would be a blood bath she is trying to control them and in a small space such as a mobile they cannot help but intrude into her space and are not able to retreat if she is controlling access point (which is likely).
for what it is worth my (idiot) cousin has two patterdale dogs (unneutered) they used to require stitching up frequently as no-one took reponsibility for keeping them apart, one fell bitch (a patterdalein all but name) and a patterdale cross yorkshire terrier-they lived with a greyhound till the greyhound laid down in the kitchen one day and was unable to get up-when the owners came home the other dogs had attacked her and were eating her-she was still alive, the got through the door of the garage and took the ferret hutch apart and killed the 6 ferrets, they also lived alongside 2 cats for 7 yrs when one of the cats was ill they attacked and killed that too,they killed 3 hamsters, the fell bitch was great with other dogs but would voice (scream) at people coming to the house,they were all fantastic with people and kids but really were killing machines.

If they are true to breed type they need to be managed as a potential risk to other animals expecting them to be moved from pack to pack and fit in is not a realistic expectation-in a settled and establish pack with other dogs they get along with they are great-but if they take a dislike to a dog don't expect to change their minds


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## Mince Pie (9 February 2015)

I'm new to terriers, but will agree that the my friend getting the dog was on impulse, and mainly because she is half BT. I really hope she will settle further when she is the only dog in the house. She gets on extremely well with my JRT, I suspect it's because he's a pup, so my OH will take my older dog and I'll have the 2 terriers on occasion. I'm also able to take them out for a really good run together as live near a beach which is almost guaranteed to be deserted during the day on weekdays, at weekends I take them to the yard as there is the yard terrier who she gets on with. I appreciate also that all the chopping and changing probably isn't the best way forward however, unless my friend comes home first,  we are going to have to split the terriers up soon before she comes back into season as my JRT is an entire male and now of an age to be able to cover her - and I know we're living dangerously so please don't shoot me!

It may be a case of me taking Willow (the rescue BT x pat) and my OH's dog Lenny, and my OH taking my 2 and just swapping round that way. I'm not happy about it as Lenny is also a recent rescue and needs to settle with my OH, and because lenny is 12 and willow is 2 so both have very different exercise needs. I'm disabled so 4 walks a day, whilst doable, is going to impact on my health.


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## NellRosk (9 February 2015)

I took on a friend's hamster and had to rehome her 3 days later because my jack russell X was such a nightmare with it. She wouldn't eat for those 3 days and I put the hamster in my garage because Ruby couldn't handle it being in the house. She spent 3 days howling, whining and yapping and trying her hardest to get into the garage. I think it's just in their nature to be like that being terriers and there's not a lot you can do tbh!


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## Oscar (9 February 2015)

I've got a Patterdale x JRT, a JRT x something! And a Doberman. The Patterdale x JRT is a real sweetie, and is 100%!fine with my 3 cats, we already had the cats when we got him at 8 weeks and the cats firmly put him in his place.  

My dogs are currently snoring their heads off as they were up at 6, down the yard sniffing and helping me turn my 5 horses out & then doing whatever's dogs do while I did my chores etc for a couple of hours then I took them for a 45min walk across open fields and threw a ball & sticks to wear them out. Tehy often follow me out hacking too.  They will then come back to the yard for another walk and will supervise the bringing in of the horses. Exercise i believe is key to a quiet house. 

I appreciate not everyone can let their dogs roam while doing their horses etc, mine all have from pups so it's routine, but there are real benefits to both dog and owner in going for a nice walk, even if on the lead, it's good bonding time and gets you both fit.


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## twiggy2 (9 February 2015)

can't you get her speyed and your friend pay the bill? might make things a bit easier


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## Mince Pie (9 February 2015)

I'm disabled and out of work so I can't afford to do the spay. I'll look into the pdsa and  see if they can help as I'm on benefits. 

She really is a lovely little dog underneath all the issues! I agree about the exercise, when she's with me she has either 2 runs on the beach, or a beach run and then a couple of hours at the yard. Unfortunately my OH's dog Lenny is old so she doesn't get as much exercise with him.


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