# What colour is/are your horse/s?



## Feival (25 February 2015)

I've got this funky dude







And this pretty little girl


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## Grinchmass (25 February 2015)

I have a 15hh bay mare - originally wanted something at least 15.2 - but she rides bigger and is chunky so takes up my leg


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## Cinnamontoast (25 February 2015)

Mine is apparently a skewbald, according to his passport. I'd say pie, more like, he's more black than anything else.


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## Paint Me Proud (25 February 2015)

Kasper is silver dapple buckskin varnish roan apploosa, or, as i like to call him, blonde, as it's easier to say!


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## Shantara (25 February 2015)

Bright bay with the most adorable little white socks <3


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## Meowy Catkin (25 February 2015)

A chestnut, a flaxen chestnut and a fleabitten grey.


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## Wagtail (25 February 2015)

A very dark buckskin WB (AKA smoky brown or brown buckskin).


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## Spot_the_Risk (25 February 2015)

A buckskin Tobiano, a chestnut Tobiano, and a buckskin with a blanket spot.  I like them a bit different.


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## milliepops (25 February 2015)

I think I'd have to ask Faracat what colour mine is 
 Millie's bay, (what's the variation where the white socks have pointy bits??) but Kira is a weird chestnut/roan thing with dingy bits on her bum


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## Meowy Catkin (25 February 2015)

A chestnut, a flaxen chestnut and a fleabitten grey.


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## cobgoblin (25 February 2015)

Jet black with four white socks and wide blaze.
Black and white.
Mahogany bay.


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## milliepops (25 February 2015)

I think I'd have to ask Faracat what colour mine is 
 Millie's bay, (what's the variation where the white socks have pointy bits??) but Kira is a weird chestnut/roan thing with dingy bits on her bum


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## Meowy Catkin (25 February 2015)

milliepops said:



			I think I'd have to ask Faracat what colour mine is 
 Millie's bay, (what's the variation where the white socks have pointy bits??) but Kira is a weird chestnut/roan thing with dingy bits on her bum 

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Photos?


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## alainax (25 February 2015)

None of these fancy colours.. just black


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## Paint Me Proud (25 February 2015)

Spot_the_Risk said:



			A buckskin Tobiano, a chestnut Tobiano, and a buckskin with a blanket spot.  I like them a bit different.
		
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another buckskin appaloosa?! Photos definitely needed.....


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## taraj (25 February 2015)

A flaxen chestnut with 4 whites/blaze
A Piebald (says tobiano on passport but think its the same thing!?)
And a bay roan type pony with white skewbaldy bits, a black mane, white (meant to be white!) tail, white face and white legs. Who then goes a cream colour spring/autumn time just to add to the confusion!.
Could do without all the white legs though this time of year!


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## Feival (25 February 2015)

Faracat and other clever people, What colour is Buzz?


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## Meowy Catkin (25 February 2015)

The Tank said:



			Faracat and other clever people, What colour is Buzz?
		
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Do you have any good, clear daylight photos?


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## Feival (25 February 2015)




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## Wagtail (25 February 2015)

The Tank said:








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Faracat may correct me but he looks bay roan to me.


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## Deltaflyer (25 February 2015)

What lovely horses you all have. Faracat, I have a real weakness for chestnuts with white markings, especially arabs or PBAs. My first girlie was a chestnut arab with a touch of welsh, four white socks and a blaze. This is my current boy, I believe he's a grey tobiano.


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## Beausmate (25 February 2015)

Bright bay (in avatar) with some nice countershading, a boring NH bay with almost no markings (tiny tiny smudge of a star and lighter hair on hind pasterns) and a coloured. He's something and white, (sabino) and there's some silver in there I think, otherwise, who knows?!


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## Meowy Catkin (25 February 2015)

The Tank - He is black based with the brown version of agouti, plus what looks like the true 'dark headed' Roan gene. So a _Seal Brown Roan_ if I'm right.


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## wills_91 (25 February 2015)

1 chesnut, 2 piebalds & 2 skewbalds here


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## Wagtail (25 February 2015)

Faracat said:



			The Tank - He is black based with the brown version of agouti, plus what looks like the true 'dark headed' Roan gene. So a _Seal Brown Roan_ if I'm right.
		
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Ah yes, I can see how his 'mask' is very similar to my brown girl's.


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## Meowy Catkin (25 February 2015)

Deltaflyer said:



			What lovely horses you all have. Faracat, I have a real weakness for chestnuts with white markings, especially arabs or PBAs. My first girlie was a chestnut arab with a touch of welsh, four white socks and a blaze. This is my current boy, I believe he's a grey tobiano.








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Chestnut is my favourite colour.  As you can tell I love PBA's and arabs too.  The grey was actually born chestnut and her fleabites are chestnut, but that photo is a bit bleached out so you can't really see them.

Lovely photo of a bluebell wood BTW!


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## JFTDWS (25 February 2015)

Mine carry the dun gene and the grey gene.

Fergus is a standard grey dun, I presume on a black base.  He has dapples in summer, but not winter.  And has both dorsal and frontal stripes.

3 y/old






8 y/old







Daemon is sort of cream dun.  He also carries the grey gene as is greying out, but on some sort of brown base...  He's paler in summer than winter, but no dapples.  He does have fabulous facial markings though - he has perfect blusher on his cheek bones!

1y/old summer coat






5y/old winter coat


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## Meowy Catkin (25 February 2015)

Wagtail said:



			Ah yes, I can see how his 'mask' is very similar to my brown girl's.
		
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Yes, it's nice to be able to compare two brown horses with other genes altering the colour.


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## Deltaflyer (25 February 2015)

Faracat said:



			Chestnut is my favourite colour.  As you can tell I love PBA's and arabs too.  The grey was actually born chestnut and her fleabites are chestnut, but that photo is a bit bleached out so you can't really see them.

Lovely photo of a bluebell wood BTW! 

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Hmm, yes, photobucket's changed a lot since I last used it !!! I'll try and work it out LOL


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## skint1 (25 February 2015)

A piebald, a bay an a chestnut


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## Feival (25 February 2015)

Thanks faracat, know one has ever been able to tell me. He is Irish if that makes any difference?


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## biggingerpony (25 February 2015)

A dark bay and a proper ginger chestnut.


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## AdorableAlice (25 February 2015)

Two bright bays and two odd colours !


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## Meowy Catkin (25 February 2015)

Glad to help.


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## Deltaflyer (25 February 2015)

Another attempt.







Woohoo, it worked


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## Meowy Catkin (25 February 2015)

Well done on conquering photobucket! Yes, he/she looks grey tobiano to me too.


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## DW Team (25 February 2015)

ummmm 5 bays, 2 chestnuts and a grey oups and one on the way. oups need to reduce


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## JFTDWS (25 February 2015)

Deltaflyer said:



			Another attempt.







Woohoo, it worked 

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mmm, lovely!

Love your username too


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## Rhodders (25 February 2015)

1brown, 1 light chestnut, 1 chestnut and one bay


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## ILuvCowparsely (25 February 2015)

Paint Me Proud said:



			Kasper is silver dapple buckskin varnish roan apploosa, or, as i like to call him, blonde, as it's easier to say!






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<< going to steal him I lovesssssss bucksin/duns


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## Pie's mum (25 February 2015)

Lots of gorgeous horses on thes thread!
Mine is blue and white. His blue patches are roan - at his grand old age of almost 19 he's still obviously coloured.


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## ILuvCowparsely (25 February 2015)

Wagtail said:



			A very dark buckskin WB (AKA smoky brown or brown buckskin).






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<< already got my horsebox charged to steal her  which night shall I do it!!! soon she will be in my possession


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## ILuvCowparsely (25 February 2015)

I am a sucker for duns/buckskin


Faracat already said my girly is a buckskin

my boy is a palomino and the donkey is brown


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## Kallibear (25 February 2015)

Roo is a slightly unusual colour







He's chestnut but with roaning (sabino?) through out, esp his face. For a while I worried that he's going grey (I'll be REALLY upset if he does!) but he's 5yr old now so doubt it 

He's got a a blonde mane with some white hairs and has very pale blonde legs.  The picture (of him looking like a LlamaCamel) doesn't show how blonde his mane is but does show his pale legs.


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## JFTDWS (25 February 2015)

Kallibear I'd be more worried he's possessed by the devil...  Or is he just using the force?


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## Feival (25 February 2015)

Wagtail I love your mare, now you've seen my boy you probably get why, I like her so much.


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## russianhorse (25 February 2015)

I have a bay trotter and a piebald cob


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## only_me (25 February 2015)

Billy is skewbald/coloured - whatever you prefer to call him  he also gets dapples on his body & he is also gaining new white patches, and his star & snip on face are joining to make a thin blaze!


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## ilvpippa (25 February 2015)

A very orange chestnut girl with two stockings & 3 white feet! She gets dapples too & is a gorgeous colour in summer & winter!


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## Deltaflyer (25 February 2015)

JFTD said:



			mmm, lovely!

Love your username too 

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Thank you, I love him to bits. Just had my first year anniversary with him  

Username was my previous horse's (a very pink bay roan) BSJA name (pinched from Star Trek Voyager) - trouble is, rather than him flying over the jumps in style it was always me flying over his neck when he did the old 'stop and spin' at a show jump.


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## JFTDWS (25 February 2015)

Deltaflyer said:



			Thank you, I love him to bits. Just had my first year anniversary with him  

Username was my previous horse's (a very pink bay roan) BSJA name (pinched from Star Trek Voyager) - trouble is, rather than him flying over the jumps in style it was always me flying over his neck when he did the old 'stop and spin' at a show jump.
		
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He's lovely - belated happy anniversary 

It was the Voyager reference I was enjoying.  As I sit here in my Klingon hoodie.  I need to get out more   I want an XC baselayer with the Klingon saying "Today is a good day to die" on it 

Previous horse sounds like a monster though


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## Spot_the_Risk (25 February 2015)

Harley on the left, buckskin Tobiano, Tinner on the right, chestnut Tobiano, Leo (since sold) chestnut leopard spot.


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## Shantara (25 February 2015)

Deltaflyer said:



			Another attempt.







Woohoo, it worked 

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Eeeee! Sam! What a star he is, I miss his adorable little face!


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## Spot_the_Risk (25 February 2015)

Finlay, OH's loan horse.  Buckskin with blanket spot.


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## PolarSkye (25 February 2015)

Fleabitten grey.







P


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## Pinkvboots (25 February 2015)

Dark brown, bright bay and a light bay


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## Sleipnir (25 February 2015)

Blood bay, I believe, but I might be mistaken.


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## Talyn (25 February 2015)

I have a bay, a skewbald and a piebald.


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## Jo1987 (25 February 2015)

Nothing exciting here - 2 blacks and a bay (who is also black in winter)


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## quirky (25 February 2015)

Bay roan.


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## Marchogaeth (25 February 2015)

Mine are ginger ponies!&#9786;&#65039; well, sort of! Pip is the oranger that orange Anglo Arab!!





It's not just her neck...





...and Pepper is the suprisingly bright bay connie X! 





And again! 
[Content removed]


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## WelshD (25 February 2015)

I have a white grey and a chestnut


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## Tern (25 February 2015)

Bay.  Goes the colour of Dark Chocolate in Winter and then red tinged bay in the summer.  This was August time.. 2 months off after I broke my leg, got back on and she was good as gold.. both of us tubby too!


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## rara007 (25 February 2015)

We have at home at the moment:
1 red dun
1 chestnut flaxen (liver in summer, normal in winter)
1 chestnut with Pangare 
1 grey (white in winter, flea bitten in summer- interesting was a black 4YO but chestnut flea bites)
1 black
1 bay tobiano
1 bright chestnut


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## Meowy Catkin (25 February 2015)

rara007 said:



			1 grey (white in winter, flea bitten in summer- interesting was a black 4YO but chestnut flea bites)
		
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That is interesting.


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## Spilletta (25 February 2015)

First pony was a black Shetland, second was a grey Welsh. Loved them both but the grey was such hard work to get clean and I always dreamed of a bay. Finally, aged 40-something, I've got my bay horse, (and no white socks!)


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## marmalade76 (25 February 2015)

I have three bays of varying shades, a black and a grey. I would like a chestnut (had a couple of livers, but never a regular chestnut) or a roan (never had a roan) but certainly don't want another grey or any other colour with a lot of white!


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## Lemonpolo (26 February 2015)

Started bay with a spotty bum (hidden in the pic) 
	
	
		
		
	


	





Faded by 5 to this 






No idea what his official colour would be called, someone with much more knowledge than me can probably tell you ;-)


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## rara007 (26 February 2015)

Faracat said:



			That is interesting.
		
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Yup- black foal- 4, dappled till 8, white till 12, now flea bitten chestnut in summer 14+


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## Lillybob (26 February 2015)

https://scontent-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/h...3_10202145362555990_3392363513459239886_o.jpg 
https://scontent-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/h...0_10202141526620094_4650274569752376566_o.jpg

A strange dappley steel grey with a white face  She was born bay and was black for a few years!
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd....41_10201024503295209_935921842472380010_o.jpg


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## Peregrine Falcon (26 February 2015)

1 grey, 2 bay roans, 1 bay, 2 chestnut roans and one cooking!


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## JJS (26 February 2015)

I have a grey and a seal brown.



















I also had two seal browns before my latest boy.


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## Montyforever (26 February 2015)

Bog standard grey with no fancy bits


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## Pipsqueak! (26 February 2015)

I have a matching pair. A bay mare and filly, one with four white socks, one with four white stockings and both have blazes.


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## _jac_ (26 February 2015)

dark bay, or seal brown?


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## gingernut81 (26 February 2015)

I have a chestnut and a skewbald (sorry it's a bit dark)


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## Centauress (26 February 2015)

LOVELY Ponies/Horses Guys
Thank You All For Sharing


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## FfionWinnie (26 February 2015)

A palomino my fave colour and she's a cracker, bringing her on for my daughter. 







An out grown chestnut tobiano






A sabino chestnut and white who is for sale






Daughter's current not really sure what colour she is roanish







And my new one who I am fairly sure is seal brown tobiano


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## SatsumaGirl (26 February 2015)

Horses I own or have owned (please note, some are loaned or shared so I don't just have a massive herd to look after and support on my own!):

Black Dales x, rising 30

Golden buckskin Connie x ID

Bay leopard spot with one blue eye, ID x App

2 x Buckskin tobianos (one Connie x cob and one 3/4 Traditional, 1/4 Highland, latter has a wall eye).

Piebald cob with sabino roaming. 

Pale or buttermilk buckskin with very pale amber eyes, believed to be a Connie, Highland, cob mix.

Chestnut flaxen frame overo, one blue eye and one darker blue wall eye, Paint x Haffy.

I used to own a beautiful buckskin tobiano very heavy traditional but sold him years ago, having listened to other people, hence why I took on the new heavy youngster when I found him. 

Also used to own the most beautiful black based loud leopard spot Knabstrupper x ISH. Biggest mistake of my life, passing him on. Still think about him everyday.  He pops up for loan or sale at least every other month but despite this, woman won't sell him to anyone. :-/

Sorry,  I ramble.


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## Merrymoles (26 February 2015)

Not what I wanted! He's a piebald but mostly white, including most of mane and all of tail. The only interesting thing about his markings is a patch of blue on one side where it looks as though the black has run.


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## Silmarillion (26 February 2015)

I'm relatively boring - two black and one grey!


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## Wagtail (26 February 2015)

Loving all these pictures. Such unusual colours.


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## Hoof_Prints (26 February 2015)

Currently have a dark grey, unless it's any more complicated than that ! she's rising 5





and a bay tobiano ISH and Buckskin , no idea what she is! some odd thing from Holland






Had a couple of greys and another buckskin too


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## MagicMelon (26 February 2015)

My dark bay has just gone out on permanent loan, so I'm now left with 3 greys (WHITES!) and a dun. They all live out 24/7. Bar the dun, the grooming sucks...


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## Meowy Catkin (26 February 2015)

_jac_ said:



			dark bay, or seal brown? 











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Seal brown.


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## xgemmax (26 February 2015)

Correct me if I'm wrong but 

bay tobiano






and chestnut, however he looks quite roany underneath the fluff so not totally sure what he's classed as


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## Wagtail (26 February 2015)

HGA-12 said:



			<< already got my horsebox charged to steal her  which night shall I do it!!! soon she will be in my possession
		
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Lol, she is rather scrummy, but then I'm biased. 



The Tank said:



			Wagtail I love your mare, now you've seen my boy you probably get why, I like her so much.
		
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I think your boy is gorgeous. Definitely can see the same base colour in the face particularly.


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## Meowy Catkin (26 February 2015)

xgemmax - the skewbald is a brown tobiano (probably seal brown tobiano as he looks like he'd be quite dark if he wasn't clipped). There is more than one gene that causes white flecks in the coat. Sabino and Rabicano are possibilities for your chestnut, but she doesn't look like she has the Roan gene. Is the 'roaning' mainly on the flanks and do you have a better photo of her tail from behind?

ETA - Hoof Print's tobaino is also a seal brown tobiano and I also wonder if the buckskin is actually brown based too.


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## SatansLittleHelper (26 February 2015)

Tobiano piebald (I think?) Warmblood x Friesian. This pic is about 2 years old but as he is currently a piebald tobiano mud splashed dirt brown with crap speckled flea bites I figured this was the best pic lol


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## topsyturvy (26 February 2015)

I have a dark bay, black with 3 1/2 whites and a star and a grey (I think) he has chesnut flecks through him and looked almost silver when I got him in September, not a colour I have seen before anyway!


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## Meowy Catkin (26 February 2015)

TT - please get a photo of your unusual grey.


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## FairyLights (26 February 2015)

one buckskin and one black


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## topsyturvy (26 February 2015)

Faracat said:



			TT - please get a photo of your unusual grey. 

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How do I post a picture? Sorry I am a bit of a technophobe!!


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## ljohnsonsj (26 February 2015)

Mine are boring!

A bay (I think a very pretty one but I may be just slightly biased  )







A chestnut 







And another bay, a darker one this time- Just for good measure





She was just 3 on that pic, she is a giant


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## Meowy Catkin (26 February 2015)

ljohnsonsj - the first horse is brown, not bay.  Do you have a winter coat photo of the second bay? I can't quite tell if she's bay or brown from that photo.


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## risky business (26 February 2015)

He's my loan pony but buckskin! Only known due to faracats knowledge!


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## topsyturvy (26 February 2015)




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## xgemmax (26 February 2015)

Faracat said:



			xgemmax - the skewbald is a brown tobiano (probably seal brown tobiano as he looks like he'd be quite dark if he wasn't clipped). There is more than one gene that causes white flecks in the coat. Sabino and Rabicano are possibilities for your chestnut, but she doesn't look like she has the Roan gene. Is the 'roaning' mainly on the flanks and do you have a better photo of her tail from behind?

ETA - Hoof Print's tobaino is also a seal brown tobiano and I also wonder if the buckskin is actually brown based too.
		
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Ah that's interesting, thankyou 

My chesnut is cob x appaloosa so possibly where the white flecking comes from? He has it mainly accross his ribs and bottom, haven't seen his summer coat yet!

His tail is quite light around the sides and the guard hairs down his back legs and his feathers are very pale, almost blonde


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## minkymoo (26 February 2015)

Mine is a Grullo, he's passported as black, in the summer you can see his dorsal stripe running down his back. Obviously, I think he is beautiful! 

Here's my boy at 6 months (summer coat): 






and here he is at 2 (summer coat): 






and at 4 (winter coat):


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## risky business (26 February 2015)

Just wondering faracat if you could tell me the colour of my previous Welsh mare? Passported as 'bay dun'.


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## ljohnsonsj (26 February 2015)

Faracat said:



			ljohnsonsj - the first horse is brown, not bay.  Do you have a winter coat photo of the second bay? I can't quite tell if she's bay or brown from that photo.
		
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Is she? She is clipped there,I'll attach a summer one, both the bay/brown ones have black legs from the knee down, i'm useless with colours!






And a winter coat for the 2nd one, it was when I first got her so excuse the state of her!






She is all dark with just a star and light bits on her eyes and muzzle, almost like an exmoor pony  Thanks Faracat!


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## Meowy Catkin (26 February 2015)

TT - the photos worked when I clicked on them. Very cute.  Definitely a grey and it will be lovely to see how his colour develops as he greys out.

xgemmax - it's most likely related to the gene(s) causing the white markings, as if he had LP from his appy parent, you would expect him to varnish roan out (ie he would continue to get paler, like Lemonpolo's horse has - shown earlier in the thread). I had wondered if he had an obvious 'skunk tail' to indicate rabicano and I'm thinking that maybe it's sabino causing the flecks, but the summer coat should help. 

RB - I don't see Dun. Dorsal stripes can be caused by countershading, so non dun horses can have them.


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## topsyturvy (26 February 2015)

Thanks Faracat!! I am hoping he will stay darker but time will tell


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## Meowy Catkin (26 February 2015)

ljohnsonsj said:



			She is all dark with just a star and light bits on her eyes and muzzle, almost like an exmoor pony  Thanks Faracat! 

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They're both brown.  It's the brown muzzle (and round the eyes etc...) that really gives it away. I can see why you say it's like an Exmoor as it alters the pigment in the same areas, but pangare (that Exmoors and Haflingers have) makes the muzzle etc... even paler. Bay and Brown are related, the third colour caused by agouti is Wild Bay.


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## ljohnsonsj (26 February 2015)

Faracat said:



			They're both brown.  It's the brown muzzle (and round the eyes etc...) that really gives it away. I can see why you say it's like an Exmoor as it alters the pigment in the same areas, but pangare (that Exmoors and Haflingers have) makes the muzzle etc... even paler. Bay and Brown are related, the third colour caused by agouti is Wild Bay.
		
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Thankyou, how interesting i've never thought that much into colours! Their summer coats are much nicer than their winters!


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## Meowy Catkin (26 February 2015)

I like the winter coats that brown horses have as you can really see the contrast between the brown muzzle and the darker body. 

Just for fun, here's a link to a wild bay and you can see how the black pigment is very restricted, so there is hardly any black left on the legs, but it still retains the black mane and tail.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/54/Halterstandingshotarabianone.jpg


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## xgemmax (26 February 2015)

Faracat said:



			TT - the photos worked when I clicked on them. Very cute.  Definitely a grey and it will be lovely to see how his colour develops as he greys out.

xgemmax - it's most likely related to the gene(s) causing the white markings, as if he had LP from his appy parent, you would expect him to varnish roan out (ie he would continue to get paler, like Lemonpolo's horse has - shown earlier in the thread). I had wondered if he had an obvious 'skunk tail' to indicate rabicano and I'm thinking that maybe it's sabino causing the flecks, but the summer coat should help. 

RB - I don't see Dun. Dorsal stripes can be caused by countershading, so non dun horses can have them. 

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Ooh thanks, would be nice if he got lighter, will have to wait and see what summer coat is like  He is rising 5 so plenty of time yet I guess! Very interesting stuff, thankyou x


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## Meowy Catkin (26 February 2015)

xgemmax said:



			Ooh thanks, would be nice if he got lighter, will have to wait and see what summer coat is like  He is rising 5 so plenty of time yet I guess! Very interesting stuff, thankyou x
		
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I don't think he'll get lighter as time goes by, but his summer coat should have more flecks (or the flecks are easier to see) than his winter one. One of my chestnuts has a sabino patch of white flecks on his elbow, you can hardly see it in the winter, but it's an obvious white spot in his summer coat.


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## taraj (26 February 2015)

Can anyone tell me the colour of this little monster!


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## xgemmax (26 February 2015)

Faracat said:



			I don't think he'll get lighter as time goes by, but his summer coat should have more flecks (or the flecks are easier to see) than his winter one. One of my chestnuts has a sabino patch of white flecks on his elbow, you can hardly see it in the winter, but it's an obvious white spot in his summer coat. 

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Ah I see  Possibly what he might have then as there's deff no flecking on his neck so it's not all over, will wait and see


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## Blurr (26 February 2015)

A bay, a grey, two chestnuts (one with some interesting extra sabino markings), a black and a palomino appaloosa who may also have rabicano.


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## Hawks27 (26 February 2015)

I wish I was more technically minded with adding pictures, I have a loud sorrel overo imported Texan paint horse he's white with ginger bits in a funky pattern


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## ester (26 February 2015)

minkymoo with his foal coat how did he ever get passported as black? so brown based grulla technically?

taraj I vote bay roan tobiano possibly with splash  - as looks like has the dark head of typical roan under the white/forelock.


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## vam (26 February 2015)

Liver chestnut






and she was down as a bay roan but who knows


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## Caramac71 (26 February 2015)

I'd love an opinion on the colouring of my daughter's mare.  She was advertised as iron grey, but is passported as grey roan (I'm pretty sure she's not grey roan though).  She's dark grey with mainly black mane/tail (some silver streaks in it), flecks of brown in her coat especially her hind which is currently more bay than grey!  In the 8 months or so we've owned her she has changed colour many times.  She was very dark at the start of summer, went lighter and almost rose grey as time went on, then darker again over autumn/winter.

(First time posting photos so apologies if it's gone a bit wrong!)

Summer:  






Autumn:  






Now:


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## Lemonpolo (26 February 2015)

xgemmax said:



			Ooh thanks, would be nice if he got lighter, will have to wait and see what summer coat is like  He is rising 5 so plenty of time yet I guess! Very interesting stuff, thankyou x
		
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My boy was 4 1/2 in the second photos so he was already very faded. He's now 6 and is still the same. It was only recently when I found some old pictures of him that I realised how much he had faded out. He also now has the most scruffy, short mane and tail, it was long and thick when he was younger! And no matter what I do it's not getting any longer or thicker 

 I am sure Faracet will tell you if he is likely to get any lighter

Faracet, what is the official name for my boys colour? (It's all seems much more complicated that I remember as a child lol)


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## Hawks27 (26 February 2015)

Caramac71 said:



			I'd love an opinion on the colouring of my daughter's mare.  She was advertised as iron grey, but is passported as grey roan (I'm pretty sure she's not grey roan though).  She's dark grey with mainly black mane/tail (some silver streaks in it), flecks of brown in her coat especially her hind which is currently more bay than grey!  In the 8 months or so we've owned her she has changed colour many times.  She was very dark at the start of summer, went lighter and almost rose grey as time went on, then darker again over autumn/winter.

This mare looks a lot like my old filly, she was born flaming ginger chesnut, by 2 she was dark iorn grey dapple with blackening mane and tail almost black lower legs and a black dorsal stripe but she still had ginger steaks in her mane and tail and ginger freckles hidden in her body 9i always called her a secret ginger ninja). by 4 her body had lighten to a light grey dapple but her legs went darker her mane and tail were very dark iorn grey the dorsal stripe faded but in summer she still had little ginger bits showing through I always classed her as a dapple grey but was convinced her body might go almost white over time she must be around 7/8 now
		
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## Casey76 (26 February 2015)

Black and black lol!


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## Caramac71 (26 February 2015)

Hawks27 said:





Caramac71 said:



			This mare looks a lot like my old filly, she was born flaming ginger chesnut, by 2 she was dark iorn grey dapple with blackening mane and tail almost black lower legs and a black dorsal stripe but she still had ginger steaks in her mane and tail and ginger freckles hidden in her body 9i always called her a secret ginger ninja). by 4 her body had lighten to a light grey dapple but her legs went darker her mane and tail were very dark iorn grey the dorsal stripe faded but in summer she still had little ginger bits showing through I always classed her as a dapple grey but was convinced her body might go almost white over time she must be around 7/8 now
		
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Our mare will be 6 this year.  Really hoping she doesn't grey out too quickly as she is a filthy mud monster!
		
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## Arizahn (26 February 2015)

One bay and one bay roan - the latter will be almost pure white aside from his legs and head once his spring coat comes in. I must find pictures!


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## Meowy Catkin (26 February 2015)

Lemonpolo - I would say varnish roan. 

Caramac71 - she's a grey.  It's not uncommon for greys to be misidentified as roan in the early stages of greying out.


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## Lucyad (26 February 2015)

Is this dark bay or brown - or seal brown?  I thought it was a boring colour but now I understand most of the more complex colours, a have ended up baffled by my 'formerly dark bay' horse!

He is very dark brown, with black legs, mane and tail, with much paler muzzle, slightly paler round eyes, and very pale between back legs.  Goes a bit paler than picture in summer.


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## H4flinger (26 February 2015)

Chestnut Haflinger (although he appears more palomino) who is also pangare and carries the grey gene so goes dappled in the summer and a black show cob who has four white socks and white splodges near his sheath which are technically big enough to class him as coloured haha


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## Meowy Catkin (26 February 2015)

Lucyad - He's brown and as he's a dark one I would call him seal brown.


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## Meowy Catkin (26 February 2015)

H4flinger - I don't see grey on your haffy, I didn't think that it was in the breed. Non greys can be dappled.

It should be stated that Haflingers (no matter how pale they are) should never be called palomino as they don't have the cream gene, as H4flinger states, they have pangare.


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## Lemonpolo (26 February 2015)

Faracat said:



			Lemonpolo - I would say varnish roan. 

Caramac71 - she's a grey.  It's not uncommon for greys to be misidentified as roan in the early stages of greying out.
		
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That's a new one one me, thank you  we know he is out of a welsh mare and can only assume an appy shire!


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## HufflyPuffly (26 February 2015)

Boring over here too.

Bright bay, with no white bar a smudged star 






Black, with three white socks and a wonky stripe






Perhaps the most interesting will be Skylla as she is grey but clearly on a black base, 2.5 years now so a lot of colour changes to happen yet!






x x


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## Phoebe+Sophie (26 February 2015)

I have a bay mare and a black gelding. She is Exmoor x Welsh Section C and she is sort of bronze with honey bits in the summer and darker with russet red in the winter. In the winter she also gets gold sort spiderwebs down the inside of her front legs but they disappear in the summer. I don't know what that's called. You can see the exmoor in her face, her mealy muzzle and around her eyes. 
Summer coat 















Winter coat










Black gelding clipped summer coat





Sorry for the overload!


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## H4flinger (26 February 2015)

Faracat said:



			H4flinger - I don't see grey on your haffy, I didn't think that it was in the breed. Non greys can be dappled.

It should be stated that Haflingers (no matter how pale they are) should never be called palomino as they don't have the cream gene, as H4flinger states, they have pangare.
		
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You are probably right but he changes colour all year so it can be hard to tell haha

Not a great pictures but his dapples:


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## SatsumaGirl (26 February 2015)

SatsumaGirl said:



			Horses I own or have owned (please note, some are loaned or shared so I don't just have a massive herd to look after and support on my own!):

Black Dales x, rising 30

Golden buckskin Connie x ID

Bay leopard spot with one blue eye, ID x App

2 x Buckskin tobianos (one Connie x cob and one 3/4 Traditional, 1/4 Highland, latter has a wall eye).

Piebald cob with sabino roaning. 

Pale or buttermilk buckskin with very pale amber eyes, believed to be a Connie, Highland, cob mix.

Chestnut flaxen frame overo, one blue eye and one darker blue wall eye, Paint x Haffy.

I used to own a beautiful buckskin tobiano very heavy traditional but sold him years ago, having listened to other people, hence why I took on the new heavy youngster when I found him. 

Also used to own the most beautiful black based loud leopard spot Knabstrupper x ISH. Biggest mistake of my life, passing him on. Still think about him everyday.  He pops up for loan or sale at least every other month but despite this, woman won't sell him to anyone. :-/

Sorry,  I ramble. 

Click to expand...


Thought I'd add in photos as couldn't get them to work this morning!

Pale buckskin 






Golden buckskin and the Connie x cob






Piebald cob






The ID x App with my old Knab x ISH before I sold him 






Paint x Haffy






My little old man (Dales x)






My old buckskin tobiano (since sold)






My new buckskin tobiano 
Not the best photo as it was last summer during the rising 1 phase! He's filled out a lot since.


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## Lucyad (26 February 2015)

Faracat said:



			Lucyad - He's brown and as he's a dark one I would call him seal brown. 

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Thanks!  His passport has brown scored out and dark bay written over the top - they were right all along!


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## exmoorponyprincess1 (26 February 2015)

50 shades of brown!! They are all Exmoors


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## forelegs (26 February 2015)

I've always said that mine was dark bay (thats what his passport says) but now I'm wondering if he is actually seal brown. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable than me can tell me!

Summer coat:






Clipped:












He has some very light patches (muzzle and parts of his legs):







Hope the pictures have worked!


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## Wagtail (26 February 2015)

Forelegs, he looks like seal brown to me, especially in the third photo. Lovely colour.


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## blitznbobs (26 February 2015)

I have a little chestnut, a bay tobiano ,a bay roan, a black  tobiano and a v dark brown (looks essentially black but she is brown)


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## SpringArising (26 February 2015)

Wagtail said:



			Forelegs, he looks like seal brown to me
		
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Me too.


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## Annagain (26 February 2015)

Mine is what I think Faracat would call mud on a poo base 






with a wee dilute. 






 ....and what he should look like 






And just so he's not left out my share horse. Fleabitten grey with chestnut flecks (although not so obvious in this pic as they tend to blend together in winter and just create an overall off white colour) but even at 19 he still has quite a dark mane and tail - his mane is a darker grey but the dark bits of his tail are chestnut. It's a little bit muddy in this photo but not far off its normal colour.


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## Beausmate (26 February 2015)

I've also had two chestnuts - one, a Suffolk x Hanovarian who was properly orange, a 'chesnut' from his Suffolk dam and a Welsh C x Arab, who was slightly less orange, with a lighter mane and a glorious technicolour dream tail!  It was every colour bar white, started black in the middle and grew paler as it neared the sides, ending up flaxen.

I had a PBA, who was totally black until she was nearly five, when she very slowly started to grey out.  Dad is fleabitten, mum is probably seal brown, maybe black tobiano.


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## kez81 (26 February 2015)

Currently have a chestnut Arab with white socks and a small star on forehead, a bright bay new forest pony with no white markings and then there is Boo! Boo is buckskin with a white blaze and white socks, he has black knees and his mane and tail are mostly black with white streaks. In winter he is pale sandy buckskin and in summer he is darker with bronzing down his neck and over his rump with dapples everywhere.


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## Enfys (26 February 2015)

Palominos. Buckskin. Bay. Red and white overo.

Yesterday, not that you can really see the colours! 







Buckskin


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## Meowy Catkin (26 February 2015)

P+S - I would say a brown and a really dark seal brown. 

There's lots of gorgeous brown horses on this thread. 

Annagain - my grey sometimes rocks the muddy, pee and poo stained look too. My tactic is to not look too closely at how clean she is - much less stressful.


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## Dusty85 (26 February 2015)

Ive got a Bay mare. 

Summer coat is a gorgeous conker red colour


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## Annagain (26 February 2015)

Faracat said:



			P+S - I would say a brown and a really dark seal brown. 

There's lots of gorgeous brown horses on this thread. 

Annagain - my grey sometimes rocks the muddy, pee and poo stained look too. My tactic is to not look too closely at how clean she is - much less stressful. 

Click to expand...

Out of interest Faracat, is my share horse just a bog standard grey that happens to be fleabitten, or is there more to him with the dark mane and chestnutty bits in his tail. He's very fleabitten, esp in summer - almost like a negative of a chestnut roan? I think I read that a fleabitten grey isn't homozygous (and therefore lessd prone to melanoma) while a "white" grey is? Is that true? My two would back that up as at 19 both, A is riddled, but M has none.


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## southerncomfort (26 February 2015)

Chestnut/Chestnut and um....chestnut!


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## Gloi (26 February 2015)

Mud coloured 

(Meant  to be black & chestnut dun)


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## Phoebe+Sophie (26 February 2015)

Faracat said:



			P+S - I would say a brown and a really dark seal brown. 

There's lots of gorgeous brown horses on this thread. 

Annagain - my grey sometimes rocks the muddy, pee and poo stained look too. My tactic is to not look too closely at how clean she is - much less stressful. 

Click to expand...

I thought browns had brown manes and tails without black points? I thought you couldn't really go wrong with bay!  That's really interesting about Will, I know true black horses are rarer than you think. He does fade a lot in the summer. Here's more of Will, does it confirm yours thoughts Faracat?
More of clipped summer coat





Unclipped summer coat





Thanks!


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## Casey76 (26 February 2015)

Pics of my two black beasts...


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## Crugeran Celt (26 February 2015)

I have a black with three white socks and a small star, a bright bay with four white socks and large star, two chestnut pintos and a palamino.  All very ordinary colours. Even the pintos are almost all chestnut with minimal white markings. I would love a dun.


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## Wagtail (26 February 2015)

Faracat said:



			P+S - I would say a brown and a really dark seal brown. 

There's lots of gorgeous brown horses on this thread. 

Click to expand...

I thought the same about the darker of P+S's horses but wondered if the lighter one could be a bright bay with pangare?


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## s4sugar (26 February 2015)

Wild bay minimal frame overo mare & chestnut (OLWS tested hetrozygous but not expressed) with pangare & rabicano gelding


will sort out photos.


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## Phoebe+Sophie (26 February 2015)

Wagtail said:



			I thought the same about the darker of P+S's horses but wondered if the lighter one could be a bright bay with pangare?
		
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My mare is Exmoor cross Welsh Section C and Exmoors have pangare don't they? She does have very obvious black points and is very bright in the summer. Thanks


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## Meowy Catkin (26 February 2015)

Phoebe+Sophie said:



			Black gelding clipped summer coat





Sorry for the overload!
		
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This is the photo that made me think he's very dark seal brown as you can just see the brown on the muzzle and by the eye, it is very subtle.


annagain said:



			And just so he's not left out my share horse. Fleabitten grey with chestnut flecks (although not so obvious in this pic as they tend to blend together in winter and just create an overall off white colour) but even at 19 he still has quite a dark mane and tail - his mane is a darker grey but the dark bits of his tail are chestnut. It's a little bit muddy in this photo but not far off its normal colour. 





Click to expand...

He was almost certainly born chestnut. My own grey is heterozygous for grey. She was born chestnut, quickly greyed out to pure white by 2 years of age and then started to develop fleabites. She doesn't have sooty, so never went through a dappled stage. I have read that homozygous greys are possibly more prone to melanomas, but I have not seen any research to back it up, so it could just be an old wives tale. A lot of very old grey horses do get fleabites, so it could be a time thing? Again I've not seen any proper research into this.


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## Meowy Catkin (26 February 2015)

Wagtail said:



			I thought the same about the darker of P+S's horses but wondered if the lighter one could be a bright bay with pangare?
		
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Pangare gives a much paler result on the areas where it restricts the pigment eg







I know that I'm just giving my best 'educated guess' from how the horse looks and that it's not the same as having the horse DNA tested, so I'm always always prepared to be wrong.


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## Feival (26 February 2015)

Love all these, thank u all for joining in, SatsumaGirl seeing ur Connie x Cob makes me sure that's what Winnie is! She was born piebald, blue and white at rising 4, Grey with some flea bitten bits at rising 7. Will she get more flea bitten? They seem to just be on her bits that used to be colour.


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## Rachelashleigh (26 February 2015)

I have a dun, dun and white, piebald and I'd say bright bay always thought bay had black points jack only had black mane and tail but bay legs and a blonde draylon under fluff.


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## Antw23uk (26 February 2015)

16.2 of grey awesomeness


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## Hoof_Prints (26 February 2015)

Faracat said:



			xgemmax - the skewbald is a brown tobiano (probably seal brown tobiano as he looks like he'd be quite dark if he wasn't clipped). There is more than one gene that causes white flecks in the coat. Sabino and Rabicano are possibilities for your chestnut, but she doesn't look like she has the Roan gene. Is the 'roaning' mainly on the flanks and do you have a better photo of her tail from behind?

ETA - Hoof Print's tobaino is also a seal brown tobiano and I also wonder if the buckskin is actually brown based too.
		
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He looks darker when fully clipped, he has a more red brown colour if left unclipped or when he has his summer coat

Fully clipped late summer










Summer coat unclipped






I have an interesting colour photo of the buckskin, she goes orangey in the summer and her winter coat is paler sandy yellow. this photo is of various clip lines from different dates, doesn't show her sandy colour though


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## Madam Min (26 February 2015)

A chesnut and a dark brown ( black in summer)


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## Rhodders (26 February 2015)

Think I may have finally worked out the photo thing couldn't add it to my post though &#55357;&#56881;http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/T...462881957219_538965261_n.jpg.html?sort=3&o=30

Nope still can't do it


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## The_Dappled_One. (26 February 2015)

Dapple grey


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## Hoof_Prints (26 February 2015)

Rhodders said:



			Think I may have finally worked out the photo thing couldn't add it to my post though &#65533;&#65533;http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/T...462881957219_538965261_n.jpg.html?sort=3&o=30

Nope still can't do it 

Click to expand...







that what you were trying to post?


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## s4sugar (26 February 2015)




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## Rhodders (26 February 2015)

Hoof_Prints said:








that what you were trying to post? 

Click to expand...

Yes thank you  so brown, ginger, blond and bay, although he's wearing his pulling jacket


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## Meowy Catkin (26 February 2015)

Hoof_Prints said:



			He looks darker when fully clipped, he has a more red brown colour if left unclipped or when he has his summer coat

Fully clipped late summer











Click to expand...

That's interesting as he looks brown in the clipped photo and bay in the summer one (ignoring the white markings).

Do you have an unclipped winter coat photo?


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## Hoof_Prints (26 February 2015)

Faracat said:



			That's interesting as he looks brown in the clipped photo and bay in the summer one (ignoring the white markings).

Do you have an unclipped winter coat photo?
		
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I'll try and find what I can, he has a big hairy coat and feathers (has some irish gypsy cob showing through!) so usually fully clipped most of the year, or at least feathers clipped. I'll have a search.. sure he had an abscess one winter so he wasn't clipped and I think I took a photo


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## only_me (26 February 2015)

Faracat, is mine a bay and white? How do you tell?

And what what is the difference between a Sabino and tobanio?

Sorry for so many questions!


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## keepitugly (26 February 2015)

I have a dun and a bay.


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## Cinnamontoast (26 February 2015)

Ignoring the resemblance to a toastrack (he was unrugged and unloved during a winter til I took him on full loan  ), is he dark bay or brown/seal brown?


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## Hoof_Prints (26 February 2015)

Struggling with the winter coat, the best I have is a few weeks after a clip, he has a fair bit of feather on - note the gypsy mane trying to grow through! constant battle with it haha.





He was also rather fluffy here, this was around spring before he started moulting and I couldn't face another clip just yet






Here is is, freshly clipped november time 2013, ignore my position I was in pain after jumping with a twisted ankle !





Freshly clipped boxing day 2014 (same day as the previous first photo)






He does like to change his colours, he is now the darkish brown with red flecks as his summer coat starts to come through


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## laura_nash (26 February 2015)

My cob is a piebald







My daughters new little rescue pony is described as appaloosa on his passport, but that's clearly nonsense.  I would say a brown roan?  Happy to be corrected though.  His coat is a mix of chestnut (quite metallic in some lights), brown and grey.  I have no idea how he's bred!  Any guesses very welcome (he's 11.2hh and about 12 years old).


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## Meowy Catkin (26 February 2015)

only_me said:








Click to expand...

From this photo, he looks to be a bay tobiano, but if in his winter coat he is dark with the brown muzzle, eye shadow, armpits, flanks etc... then he could be brown rather than bay. To see the base colour, you have to imagine the horse without the white markings. If the white was paint, what colour would the horse be if you washed it off?

Tobiano and Sabino are both genes that put white (or areas with no pigment) on the coat. They are known as pinto or coloured genes. A horse can have both, but they are not the only ones, there are other pinto/coloured genes eg frame overo as shown by s4sugar's horse.

So tobiano is the classic UK piebald or skewbald with white legs and white patches on the body that go over the topline, as if the horse has been standing in white paint and someone has also poured a bucket of white paint over the top of them. They can be minimal, so most of the horse is still the base colour, or with much more white but normally the ears and often the chest and the flanks are left pigmented.

Both of these horses are tobianos.













Sabino also puts white on a horse and can be minimal, right up to the horse being pretty much all white. So it can cause a small white sock and a small star, some white flecks in the coat, belly splashes, big white markings on the head and legs, loud 'roaning' (often called blagdon in the UK when the colour is on a cob) right up to the aforementioned 'white horse'. Sabino markings are jagged edged.


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## Feival (26 February 2015)

Not the best pic, but its all I've got. What colour is the dude? He had a spotty bottom, white spots.


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## Kezzabell2 (26 February 2015)

Pic probably wont show, never do

but the closest horse is buckskin/dun (she goes very dark in the summer)
a bay and a skewbald


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## Meowy Catkin (26 February 2015)

cinnamontoast said:



			Ignoring the resemblance to a toastrack (he was unrugged and unloved during a winter til I took him on full loan  ), is he dark bay or brown/seal brown? 






Click to expand...

Brown and IMO dark enough to be called seal brown. 


Hoof_Prints said:



			Struggling with the winter coat, the best I have is a few weeks after a clip, he has a fair bit of feather on - note the gypsy mane trying to grow through! constant battle with it haha.





Click to expand...

He really looks brown rather than bay there. 



laura_nash said:













Click to expand...

So, so cute!  I looked at the photo and thought that he might be dark liver chestnut with snowflake 'appaloosa' markings and then I read that he's down as an appaloosa coloured in his passport, which is of course a breed, not a colour, but hey ho.


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## Meowy Catkin (26 February 2015)

TT - I can't really tell from that photo, but google 'horse birdcatcher spots' and see if that's a possibility. 

K2 - the photo works when I click on it.


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## Kezzabell2 (26 February 2015)

Faracat said:



			TT - I can't really tell from that photo, but google 'horse birdcatcher spots' and see if that's a possibility. 

K2 - the photo works when I click on it. 

Click to expand...

cool thanks, I don't know why they never show up on the post though!  sooo annoying that people have to click into it!  Photobucket can be soooo slow!


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## only_me (26 February 2015)

Ah, ok, thank you Faracat


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## Feival (26 February 2015)

Not really. This is his full sister, the only difference was their faces.


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## ester (26 February 2015)

Yup def snowflake appy pony and I vote brown on hoof prints boy


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## Meowy Catkin (26 February 2015)

TT - OK, she looks like she has snowflake marks on her hindquarters, so a spotty 'appaloosa' pattern. If the brother has also inherited LP and/or PATN (the two genes involved in spotty patterns) then his markings will be caused by them.


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## Hoof_Prints (26 February 2015)

Faracat said:



			He really looks brown rather than bay there. 

Click to expand...

That's really interesting, I like to look up information on the diltues and patterns but haven't looked in to browns and bays, just skim read a bit. I'll be doing a bit of research now I think !


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## Feival (26 February 2015)

I've not seen them in ages, would they be more spotty now? Also will Winnie get more fleabitten with age?


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## Meowy Catkin (26 February 2015)

The Tank said:



			I've not seen them in ages, would they be more spotty now? Also will Winnie get more fleabitten with age?
		
Click to expand...

I don't know, some spotties do 'varnish out' over time, it depends on the genes they have.

RE Winnie, she probably will get more fleabites, mine certainly gets more each year. She's even got them on her legs now.


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## Beausmate (26 February 2015)

So.... Brown horses can have black points too?  Is there no such thing as a dark bay?  This whole colour thing is seriously complicated!

I still have no idea what colour our 'blue blagdon' cob is


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## Rhodders (26 February 2015)

Beausmate said:



			So.... Brown horses can have black points too?  Is there no such thing as a dark bay?  This whole colour thing is seriously complicated!

I still have no idea what colour our 'blue blagdon' cob is 

Click to expand...

I figured my horse was dark bay turned out he's brown, he has black legs, mane and tail very dark brown body and light brown muzzle and under belly


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## Feival (26 February 2015)

Cool thanks Faracat, Quite fancy having a fleabitten grey chunky monkey &#55357;&#56842;


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## Meowy Catkin (26 February 2015)

OK, horses have two pigments, black and red (chestnut). If there were no modifying genes, they would be the only two horse colours in existence - black and chestnut (plus there would be no white markings either). 

If you take a black horse and add a gene called agouti, you restrict the black pigment, thus exposing the red pigment. There are three versions of agouti, A, At and A+. They all restrict the black pigment differently, so you can see which version of agouti the horse has by looking at it. 

When people use the word 'bay' to mean the colour of the horse's body (eg, he's a bay horse with black legs) they have misunderstood what is going on - all bay horses have black legs, part of being a bay horse is having black legs (ignoring any white markings). Bay means that the black pigment is restricted to the points (the legs, mane and tail). 

Brown horses have their black pigment restricted slightly differently, which is why they have the brown muzzle (or red pigment exposed on the muzzle), under the eyes, on the armpits and flanks. 

Wild bays have the most restricted black pigment, so they end up having a black mane and tail with hardly any black left on the legs (usually over the joints). 

You can get variation in the exposed red pigment. Think how some bays are a blood/mahogany colour and others are a more orange.

Have a look at this horse (a link as it's a big photo). Again, ignore white markings. http://th06.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE...e_bay_arabian_by_valarian_warrior-d5b09ko.jpg You can see that he's got lovely black legs, so nt a wild bay, he's not got the paler area under his eyes etc... so he's a 'bay' but he's covered in dark dapples. This is because he also has 'sooty' which adds black pigment. The dark bays that I have seen, have sooty like that, but it is true that many horses called dark bay are really seal brown.

ETA - Blue blagdon is a black based horse with the type of sabino markings where the base colour and white are really mixed and roany, but some areas are whiter than others giving a marbled effect. It's only really called blagdon in the UK and when it's on a cobby type (and heavy horses too IIRC). if the same colour was on an arabian, for example, it would be called a black sabino.


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## Cinnamontoast (26 February 2015)

I want to rep you for this, Faracat, but I have to spread it round a bit. I think that rule needs changing!


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## millikins (26 February 2015)

[/URL]

I have a grey Eriskay (that's her nose in the pic), a bay connie, a black Shetland and my beautiful little black dun girlie pictured


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## Wagtail (26 February 2015)

millikins said:








[/URL]

I have a grey Eriskay (that's her nose in the pic), a bay connie, a black Shetland and my beautiful little black dun girlie pictured 

Click to expand...

What a gorgeous colour. I've not seen a black dun before.


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## minkymoo (26 February 2015)

ester said:



			minkymoo with his foal coat how did he ever get passported as black? so brown based grulla technically?

taraj I vote bay roan tobiano possibly with splash  - as looks like has the dark head of typical roan under the white/forelock.
		
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I have no idea how colour works! All I know is his dam is black and his sire carries the grullo gene (& is also black) He's a PRE and I k ow the stud he comes from are well known for breeding a lot of unusual colours previously undesirable in the PRE.

You'll have to ask Faracat!


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## Rhodders (26 February 2015)

Faracat said:



			OK, horses have two pigments, black and red (chestnut). If there were no modifying genes, they would be the only two horse colours in existence - black and chestnut (plus there would be no white markings either). 

If you take a black horse and add a gene called agouti, you restrict the black pigment, thus exposing the red pigment. There are three versions of agouti, A, At and A+. They all restrict the black pigment differently, so you can see which version of agouti the horse has by looking at it. 

When people use the word 'bay' to mean the colour of the horse's body (eg, he's a bay horse with black legs) they have misunderstood what is going on - all bay horses have black legs, part of being a bay horse is having black legs (ignoring any white markings). Bay means that the black pigment is restricted to the points (the legs, mane and tail). 

Brown horses have their black pigment restricted slightly differently, which is why they have the brown muzzle (or red pigment exposed on the muzzle), under the eyes, on the armpits and flanks. 

Wild bays have the most restricted black pigment, so they end up having a black mane and tail with hardly any black left on the legs (usually over the joints). 

You can get variation in the exposed red pigment. Think how some bays are a blood/mahogany colour and others are a more orange.

Have a look at this horse (a link as it's a big photo). Again, ignore white markings. http://th06.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE...e_bay_arabian_by_valarian_warrior-d5b09ko.jpg You can see that he's got lovely black legs, so nt a wild bay, he's not got the paler area under his eyes etc... so he's a 'bay' but he's covered in dark dapples. This is because he also has 'sooty' which adds black pigment. The dark bays that I have seen, have sooty like that, but it is true that many horses called dark bay are really seal brown.

ETA - Blue blagdon is a black based horse with the type of sabino markings where the base colour and white are really mixed and roany, but some areas are whiter than others giving a marbled effect. It's only really called blagdon in the UK and when it's on a cobby type (and heavy horses too IIRC). if the same colour was on an arabian, for example, it would be called a black sabino.






Click to expand...

That's really interesting  and all the more confusing my boy goes lighter with dapple's in the summer I figured the sun bleached him, but he's definitely seal brown 90% of the year


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## millikins (26 February 2015)

Wagtail said:



			What a gorgeous colour. I've not seen a black dun before.
		
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Thank you Wagtail, she's a poppet too.


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## Meowy Catkin (26 February 2015)

It's not unusual for brown horses to be lighter in the summer and darker in the winter.


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## Meowy Catkin (26 February 2015)

cinnamontoast said:



			I want to rep you for this, Faracat, but I have to spread it round a bit. I think that rule needs changing!
		
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Thanks for the thought anyway.  Blimmin rules.


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## Arizahn (26 February 2015)

I stupidly looked up the Camel's parents because of this thread. Camel is the world's most stupidly huge Connemara (16hh and rising three!), and appears to be bay roan. 

Sire is buckskin (CPBS call it dun). His sire was grey, whilst his dam was dun (assuming buckskin).
Dam is grey-dun (again, CPBS!) but her foal colour was simply grey. Her sire was grey, whilst her dam was bay; so I'm guessing she herself is also actually grey?

Will the Camel grey out? Will he remain bay roan? Will it matter with all of the mud?


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## Arizahn (27 February 2015)

My older horse - aka Mammoth, due to his winter coat, which is seriously fluffy


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## Arizahn (27 February 2015)

And both of mine together, back last November


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## Annagain (27 February 2015)

Faracat said:



			This is the photo that made me think he's very dark seal brown as you can just see the brown on the muzzle and by the eye, it is very subtle.


He was almost certainly born chestnut. My own grey is heterozygous for grey. She was born chestnut, quickly greyed out to pure white by 2 years of age and then started to develop fleabites. She doesn't have sooty, so never went through a dappled stage. I have read that homozygous greys are possibly more prone to melanomas, but I have not seen any research to back it up, so it could just be an old wives tale. A lot of very old grey horses do get fleabites, so it could be a time thing? Again I've not seen any proper research into this.
		
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His passport says bay roan, although we didn't see him until he was 5 when he was really dark steel grey, almost black. He stayed like that for years, until about 12 to the point where we thought he wasn't going to grey out at all. Then one year he grew a really pale winter coat and when it fell out he was fleabitten! Virtually overnight - except his mane and tail which as I said, are still really quite dark.


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## Beausmate (27 February 2015)

So, I have a definite bay, a possible brown and a black. Perhaps.

This is pretty close to his actual colour, winter coat.






His coat has metallic silver hairs through it and his tail actually sparkles (when it's clean!). He also has stripey hooves.

People generally refer to him as grey...


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## Beausmate (27 February 2015)

Summer coat


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## Meowy Catkin (27 February 2015)

annagain said:



			His passport says bay roan, although we didn't see him until he was 5 when he was really dark steel grey, almost black. He stayed like that for years, until about 12 to the point where we thought he wasn't going to grey out at all. Then one year he grew a really pale winter coat and when it fell out he was fleabitten! Virtually overnight - except his mane and tail which as I said, are still really quite dark.
		
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That's interesting. He could have been a bright bay when born then and the grey was mistaken for Roan (happens far more often than it should), but he also had sooty, which added black pigment for a while, but then he's greyed out. Greys change so much, it's fun seeing how their colour progresses. 

A - your lovely Mammoth is a gorgeous brown and dark enough to be seal brown IMO.  Your giant conny (bless him - he's really going for it ) has always looked bay roan in the photos that you have shown of him. He could still grey out, but he would be an unusually slow greyer if he suddenly developed 'grey goggles' etc... now. As I mentioned above, grey and roan do get confused a lot.

BM - Your blagdon cob could be sabino or sabino and grey. Has he stayed the same colour for years or is he slowly lightening? If he's getting lighter then that would indicate grey.


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## ester (27 February 2015)

minkymoo said:



			Mine is a Grullo, he's passported as black, in the summer you can see his dorsal stripe running down his back. Obviously, I think he is beautiful! 

Here's my boy at 6 months (summer coat): 






and here he is at 2 (summer coat): 






and at 4 (winter coat): 





Click to expand...




minkymoo said:



			I have no idea how colour works! All I know is his dam is black and his sire carries the grullo gene (& is also black) He's a PRE and I k ow the stud he comes from are well known for breeding a lot of unusual colours previously undesirable in the PRE.

You'll have to ask Faracat!
		
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Faracat I'm rubbish with foal coats! 
Though I thought PRE's carried cream but not dun so smokey black? I'm confused on this one!

he certainly doesn't look typically 'grullo' like this one 



minkymoo said:



			Mine is a Grullo, he's passported as black, in the summer you can see his dorsal stripe running down his back. Obviously, I think he is beautiful! 

Here's my boy at 6 months (summer coat): 






and here he is at 2 (summer coat): 






and at 4 (winter coat): 





Click to expand...




millikins said:








[/URL]

I have a grey Eriskay (that's her nose in the pic), a bay connie, a black Shetland and my beautiful little black dun girlie pictured 

Click to expand...


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## Dave's Mam (27 February 2015)

Flaxen maned Liver Chestnut.
Ginger Ninja in winter.


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## SpringArising (27 February 2015)

Beausmate said:



			Summer coat





Click to expand...

He is absolutely gorgeous! Like him a lot. Where did you find him?


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## Beausmate (27 February 2015)

SpringArising said:



			He is absolutely gorgeous! Like him a lot. Where did you find him?
		
Click to expand...

Thank you!  He's from an ad on Dragon Driving, (wasn't cheap though!) after I tried to get more info about a nice colt being advertised by a breeder/dealer, but it seemed to be far too much effort for them to take a couple of photos and I'm not going to chase people to give them money, so I had another look through DD, saw this chap's ad again (he'd been on a while) with a slightly lower price and phoned up.  He was exactly as described on the phone so I loaded him up and back he came.

Overgrown feet and full of bloody worms, but I was expecting that.

Faracat - he isn't getting lighter and from what I could find out, neither parent was grey.  Which is good, as I love his winter chocolate colour.

One more thing....   What else causes socks, apart from sabino?


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## Dave's Mam (27 February 2015)

Camilla's Aunty Em said:



			Flaxen maned Liver Chestnut.
Ginger Ninja in winter.
		
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Oh, with a blaze, & 4 long white socks.


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## Arizahn (27 February 2015)

Faracat said:



			That's interesting. He could have been a bright bay when born then and the grey was mistaken for Roan (happens far more often than it should), but he also had sooty, which added black pigment for a while, but then he's greyed out. Greys change so much, it's fun seeing how their colour progresses. 

A - your lovely Mammoth is a gorgeous brown and dark enough to be seal brown IMO.  Your giant conny (bless him - he's really going for it ) has always looked bay roan in the photos that you have shown of him. He could still grey out, but he would be an unusually slow greyer if he suddenly developed 'grey goggles' etc... now. As I mentioned above, grey and roan do get confused a lot.
		
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Aw, Mammoth will be pleased to hear that he has a fancy sort of colour! Perhaps he'll stop coating himself in various shades of mud now... As to Camel, who knows? He was very pale in his last spring coat, so might be a buckskin roan. At this rate I won't be able to see him for all the clouds anyhow...


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## NagsEquestrian (27 February 2015)

My girl is a red dun few spot, my boy is a chestnut.

Also have a grey, a dapple grey and a bay.


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## Meowy Catkin (27 February 2015)

ester said:



			Faracat I'm rubbish with foal coats! 
Though I thought PRE's carried cream but not dun so smokey black? I'm confused on this one!

he certainly doesn't look typically 'grullo' like this one 

Click to expand...

PRE's have both Dun and Cream in the breed. I can't see Dun in MM's lovely boy, but he could be a Smokey Black. 

BM - If neither parent is grey, he can't be. 

A - I think that we'll have to see a cummer coat photo once Mr Giant Connie has moulted.


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## Arizahn (27 February 2015)

I have spring/summer pictures from last year which are decent. I'll upload them


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## Arizahn (27 February 2015)

April 2014






May 2014






September 2014


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## Arizahn (27 February 2015)

Lag equals double post!


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## Meowy Catkin (27 February 2015)

He does go pale in his summer coat.  I'm sticking with bay roan (for now).  

RE white socks. Splashed White also causes leg/face markings, right up to nearly white horses. They have blockier edges when compared with sabino, however you can get SW and sabino together. SW look as if they've stood in white paint and then dipped their head (and sometimes their tail) in the paint too.


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## Minnies_Mum (27 February 2015)

I've been assuming my pony is wild bay, given his black mane and tail but his legs being quite grey, with only black on the joints.  Prepared to be corrected though!  He's red in the winter (first pic) and quite yellow in summer (second pic) and you can see his legs well in the third picture.  He has a black mane but with some cream hairs and some chestnut coloured sections at the sides and the very top of his tail is lighter too.


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## Minnies_Mum (27 February 2015)

First picture here, it's been a long time since I last used photobucket and it seems more complicated!


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## ester (27 February 2015)

In the lying pic it looks like he poss has white flecks on his bum too?


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## Deltaflyer (27 February 2015)

JFTD said:



			He's lovely - belated happy anniversary 

It was the Voyager reference I was enjoying.  As I sit here in my Klingon hoodie.  I need to get out more   I want an XC baselayer with the Klingon saying "Today is a good day to die" on it 

Previous horse sounds like a monster though 

Click to expand...

Just playing catchup here 

Nice to meet another trekkie  Sad to hear about Leonard Nimoy today (sorry a bit off topic here for a moment).

Deltaflyer, AKA Ronan, Pink Pony, Pink Pig or Ronan Ponanski - wasn't as much a monster as he sounds really, he would jump brilliantly at home, he was just bad in the ring, and, he did have a bit of a buck in him. But I did have a lot of fun with him too. I was warned just after I bought him that roans can be very cheeky, and he was LOL

Your chap looks very handsome BTW


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## Feival (27 February 2015)

My Roan has a real  character, I was too there is no such thing as a bad roan. My boy fits that statement to a T


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## Minnies_Mum (27 February 2015)

Ester, no white flecks on his bum, that's just the light


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## Deltaflyer (27 February 2015)

The Tank said:



			My Roan has a real  character, I was too there is no such thing as a bad roan. My boy fits that statement to a T
		
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Ronan certainly had character. Apart from his ring shyness and occasional bucking he was a lovely chap and a dream to handle from the ground and most of the time, a lovely ride.


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## Feival (28 February 2015)

Buzz goes this colour in the summer.


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## amaia (28 February 2015)

fleabitten grey and bay tobiano! <3


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## JFTDWS (28 February 2015)

Deltaflyer said:



			Just playing catchup here 

Nice to meet another trekkie  Sad to hear about Leonard Nimoy today (sorry a bit off topic here for a moment).

Deltaflyer, AKA Ronan, Pink Pony, Pink Pig or Ronan Ponanski - wasn't as much a monster as he sounds really, he would jump brilliantly at home, he was just bad in the ring, and, he did have a bit of a buck in him. But I did have a lot of fun with him too. I was warned just after I bought him that roans can be very cheeky, and he was LOL

Your chap looks very handsome BTW 

Click to expand...

Haha there's a few of us geeks lurking on here   It's a McCoy "I'm a Doctor not a dragonslayer/bricklayer/peeping Tom/..." hoodie I'm writing this from today   Indeed, RIP dear Spock.

Sounds like a right character!  Monster - but also awesome


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## SpringArising (28 February 2015)

The Tank said:



			Buzz goes this colour in the summer. 






Click to expand...

I really like him a lot and think he would look even nicer if you could shift some weight off him.


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## Feival (28 February 2015)

That's a really old, mid summer pic. He's Mr svelte atm &#55357;&#56842;


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## kez81 (28 February 2015)

JFTD said:



			Haha there's a few of us geeks lurking on here   It's a McCoy "I'm a Doctor not a dragonslayer/bricklayer/peeping Tom/..." hoodie I'm writing this from today   Indeed, RIP dear Spock.

Sounds like a right character!  Monster - but also awesome 

Click to expand...

Quite a few Trekkie's on here! LLAP


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## cblover (28 February 2015)

I have a piebald traditional and a bay roan clydesdale.


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## Feival (28 February 2015)

Anything roan gets my vote &#55357;&#56842;


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## Dancing_Diva (28 February 2015)

I've got a

Skewbald
Black
Chestnut
A proper palomino 
Blanket spot appy
And a bay


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## Myloubylou (28 February 2015)

My mare is rich mahogany bay with dapples in summer, is darker with light, almost cream muzzle in winter. When clipped she is lovely dark colour, almost black rather than the greyish colour you get with some bays. Tail & mane has bronze through it.


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## myhorses2015 (28 February 2015)

we have adark bay one white sock beauty in the summer as his legs go all black, another dark bay white snip & a grey  so hard to keep clean but hes worth every penny


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## Centauress (1 March 2015)

kez81 said:



			Quite a few Trekkie's on here! LLAP
		
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Yeah Me Too....

RIP Spock
***SAD***


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## dibbin (1 March 2015)

I have a (currently dappled) grey with 2 white socks who is going fleabitten. Like Faracat's, he was a chestnut foal and has ginger freckles!

This is him last year






As a 2 year old






And shortly after he was born


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## YasandCrystal (1 March 2015)

I have a

Blacks
bay
Skew bald
Piebald
Grey
And as yet unborn.........which I assume will be grey or bay or bay greying out as sire is bay and dam grey?


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## buddylove (1 March 2015)

Question for colour experts, I have a grey, he was born black, and now is a steel grey, slightly lighter in the summer. Do all greys eventually go white? 
He was out of a bay mare, grey stallion (last picture I saw of him he was a lovely dapple grey).


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## Meowy Catkin (1 March 2015)

buddylove said:



			Do all greys eventually go white?
		
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Some grey out faster than others, but yes, all greys grey out to white (and then potentially start to get fleabites) unless they die before the greying out process finishes.


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## Vicki-Finn-Perry (1 March 2015)

Anyone want to hazard a guess at what colour my boy is? 

He is passported as dun but does not has dorsel stripe etc

This is his winter coat, sort of a cream looking dun? Dark brown points on his legs 







In spring he goes a strange colour with a brown type of roan over his body....







He then looses the brown going into summer and his dark points go a sort of iron grey...








He also has a very spotty nose!


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## MochaDun (1 March 2015)

On his passport he's down as dun skewbald...but that's only his summer colour and when he was younger as now older he doesn't fade to that colour so much in the summer.  He's also been called tri-coloured though I know there is no official term for that. The woman that checks his back for me loves his autumn/winter rabbit fleck looking pelage.  In the winter he goes a lovely dark mocha colour, and when clipped underneath is that gorgeous moleskin colour.  His tail I love as (when clean) has black, brown, cream, red hairs in and a lot of white and one or two beautiful dreadlocks found  deep within. I just love his shades and tones and changes of the seasons


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## Wagtail (1 March 2015)

Vicki-Finn-Perry said:



			Anyone want to hazard a guess at what colour my boy is? 

He is passported as dun but does not has dorsel stripe etc

This is his winter coat, sort of a cream looking dun? Dark brown points on his legs 







In spring he goes a strange colour with a brown type of roan over his body....







He then looses the brown going into summer and his dark points go a sort of iron grey...








He also has a very spotty nose! 







Click to expand...

Are either of his parents grey? He looks buckskin to me, but greying out. Either that or a buckskin with a wild bay base as his legs are not that dark.


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## Vicki-Finn-Perry (1 March 2015)

Wagtail said:



			Are either of his parents grey? He looks buckskin to me, but greying out. Either that or a buckskin with a wild bay base as his legs are not that dark.
		
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No idea on his parents wagtail, Tis a mystery! 

He is around 9/10 and has done the same colour change since I've owned him (brought as a 4 yr old).

Love this stuff so interesting, thanks for replying &#128522;


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## EquiEquestrian556 (1 March 2015)

Vicki-Finn-Perry said:



			No idea on his parents wagtail, Tis a mystery! 

He is around 9/10 and has done the same colour change since I've owned him (brought as a 4 yr old).

Love this stuff so interesting, thanks for replying &#65533;&#65533;
		
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He's very pretty! I also think he looks like a buckskin, he's a real beauty


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## EquiEquestrian556 (1 March 2015)

We have a liver chestnut, chestnut with flaxen mane & tail, dapple grey, grey, flea-bitten grey and a dark bay.

My liver chestnut.






The chestnut with a flaxen mane & tail (please excuse her round belly, this is 4 years ago, she is much thinner now!).






The dapple grey.






The grey.






The flea-bitten grey.






And finally, our 36 y/o dark bay (she is 31 in the photo).


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## Beausmate (1 March 2015)

Vicki-Finn-Perry said:



			No idea on his parents wagtail, Tis a mystery! 

He is around 9/10 and has done the same colour change since I've owned him (brought as a 4 yr old).

Love this stuff so interesting, thanks for replying &#55357;&#56842;
		
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Looks a bit on the varnish appy side to me.  But I don't even know what colour my cob is!


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## Feival (1 March 2015)

Your Dark bay looks more liver chestnut to me, her mane isn't black.


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## LadyRascasse (1 March 2015)

2x gingers with 4 white socks and a blaze. Until recently its been all bays.


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## Wagtail (1 March 2015)

EquiEquestrian556 said:



			And finally, our 36 y/o dark bay (she is 31 in the photo).





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Agree with the Tank, this horse is liver chestnut. Your 'liver chestnut' is a dark rich chestnut, but not liver chestnut. They are all lovely though.


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## Tern (1 March 2015)

As above.


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## AmieeT (1 March 2015)

Mines a Bay Roan, he goes fully grey in the spring to early summer and throughout the summer he's a beautiful light bay with grey specks through and a lighter bum. In the winter (when he's unclipped) he looks dark bay with dark grey patches on his bum.

As his name is Red, people usually picture him as a chestnut. But he's actually passported (incorrectly) as Red Roan, which I think is where his name is from.

Ax


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## SatsumaGirl (1 March 2015)

Vicki-Finn-Perry said:



			Anyone want to hazard a guess at what colour my boy is? 

He is passported as dun but does not has dorsel stripe etc

This is his winter coat, sort of a cream looking dun? Dark brown points on his legs 







In spring he goes a strange colour with a brown type of roan over his body....







He then looses the brown going into summer and his dark points go a sort of iron grey...








He also has a very spotty nose! 







Click to expand...

I remember you from TO. The first time I ever saw a picture, I assumed he was greying out but have since thought, for a long time that he has varnish with a buckskin base- although Lp can play some tricks with the base colour, my educated guess would still be buckskin based.  

He has signs of Lp and if nothing else, his tail shows no sign of grey (usually the head and tail are the first to start greying) so I'm sticking to my thoughts.


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## BBP (1 March 2015)

Can't remember if we settled on seal brown, dark bay or smokey black. I just call him dark chocolate colour! He has red highlights in mane and tail, coffee coloured ear linings, body colour of 70% dark chocolate, one silver leg and his muzzle and other legs are black not brown.















Faded to this last summer


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## Wagtail (1 March 2015)

KatPT said:



			Can't remember if we settled on seal brown, dark bay or smokey black. I just call him dark chocolate colour! He has red highlights in mane and tail, coffee coloured ear linings, body colour of 70% dark chocolate, one silver leg and his muzzle and other legs are black not brown.















Faded to this last summer





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He's gorgeous. I think that he is either smoky black or 'fading' black. There are two types of black horses; fading and non fading black.


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## EquiEquestrian556 (1 March 2015)

Wagtail said:



			Agree with the Tank, this horse is liver chestnut. Your 'liver chestnut' is a dark rich chestnut, but not liver chestnut. They are all lovely though.
		
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She does look liver chestnut in the photo doesn't she - but she has got darker with age, hence why we call her dark bay now (I ought to of used a more recent photo  ) Yes, she does like a dark rich chestnut in that photo, but she somehow always looks like that when her summer coat is coming through, and then gets darker, in the late autumn before she's clipped she's often mistaken as a bay. 

Aren't horses strange!


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## Wagtail (1 March 2015)

EquiEquestrian556 said:



			She does look liver chestnut in the photo doesn't she - but she has got darker with age, hence why we call her dark bay now (I ought to of used a more recent photo  ) Yes, she does like a dark rich chestnut in that photo, but she somehow always looks like that when her summer coat is coming through, and then gets darker, in the late autumn before she's clipped she's often mistaken as a bay. 

Aren't horses strange! 

Click to expand...

Bays always have black manes and tails and lower legs are black too (except for white markings of course). Your chestnut that you refer to as liver is actually a dark chestnut. Chestnuts can be as dark as some bays. Liver chestnuts are dark but do not have a red hue like other dark chestnuts. They can range from a walnut colour to almost black. There are also what are known as 'false liver chestnuts'. These are horses that have a mix of dark hairs caused by the sooty gene.


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## Wagtail (1 March 2015)

Example of a dark liver chestnut:


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## EquiEquestrian556 (1 March 2015)

Wagtail said:



			Bays always have black manes and tails and lower legs are black too (except for white markings of course). Your chestnut that you refer to as liver is actually a dark chestnut. Chestnuts can be as dark as some bays. Liver chestnuts are dark but do not have a red hue like other dark chestnuts. They can range from a walnut colour to almost black. There are also what are known as 'false liver chestnuts'. These are horses that have a mix of dark hairs caused by the sooty gene.
		
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Ah, I see, thank you. I always thought that bays could have highlights in their manes & tails.


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## Wagtail (1 March 2015)

EquiEquestrian556 said:



			Ah, I see, thank you. I always thought that bays could have highlights in their manes & tails.
		
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They can get sun bleaching, yes, but this is only at the ends. If you look at the roots, they will always be black unless the horse has a mineral deficiency or too much iron.


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## EquiEquestrian556 (1 March 2015)

Wagtail said:



			Example of a dark liver chestnut:






Click to expand...

Yep, that's Hanna 

Here is a more recent(ish) photo of her:


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## exmoorponyprincess1 (1 March 2015)

I find this thread utterly fascinating - it's a total education in itself! 

I have a query which I hope someone might be able to answer...Exmoor ponies are only permitted to be a limited colours eg brown, bay, dun and that's pretty much it!  My question is, for those Exmoor ponies registered as bay due to black manes/tails, legs...can they truly be bay if they have a mealy coloured muzzle?


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## s4sugar (1 March 2015)

The mealy muzzle of an Exmoor is due to the pangare modifier.


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## Meowy Catkin (1 March 2015)

Wagtail said:



			There are two types of black horses; fading and non fading black.
		
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There is no difference genetically between a black horse that fades and one that stays black, but copper deficiency does cause fading, so that could explain why some blacks fade badly.


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## exmoorponyprincess1 (1 March 2015)

s4sugar said:



			The mealy muzzle of an Exmoor is due to the pangare modifier.
		
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So does that mean they can still be bay even although all of their points are not black?


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## ester (1 March 2015)

edited cos I didn't go to the last page and varnish has already been mentioned


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## s4sugar (1 March 2015)

exmoorponyprincess1 said:



			So does that mean they can still be bay even although all of their points are not black?
		
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They are bay even though they have the pale edges - black + agouti makes them bay and the pangare is a modifier like tobiano or sabino - it doesn't change the genotype.


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## Meowy Catkin (1 March 2015)

exmoorponyprincess1 said:



			So does that mean they can still be bay even although all of their points are not black?
		
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Yes, bay horses with pangare are still called bay, just as Haflingers with pangare are still classed as chestnut.


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## Gazen (1 March 2015)

Mahogany bay tobiano
Seal brown but flecked all over with a low density of white hairs.  From a metre away you will not see the white ones at all, you can only see them when you get close up.


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## exmoorponyprincess1 (1 March 2015)

s4sugar said:



			They are bay even though they have the pale edges - black + agouti makes them bay and the pangare is a modifier like tobiano or sabino - it doesn't change the genotype.
		
Click to expand...




Faracat said:



			Yes, bay horses with pangare are still called bay, just as Haflingers with pangare are still classed as chestnut.
		
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Thank you for the explanation


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## Wagtail (1 March 2015)

Faracat said:



			There is no difference genetically between a black horse that fades and one that stays black, but copper deficiency does cause fading, so that could explain why some blacks fade badly.
		
Click to expand...

I agree that they are both genetically identical in respect of the E+ gene but there are modifying and intensifying genes at work as well. Jet black (non fading) is recessive to fading black due to the intensifying gene being affected by the fading gene (Jeanette Gower - Horse Colour explained). Of course this is a relatively old book and so may be wrong. I haven't looked into it other than read this book.


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## Minnies_Mum (1 March 2015)

Do the colour experts agree with my wild bay assumption on my boy?  Pics on page 22 of this thread, I can't get photobucket to upload them again, would love to know what you think.


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## s4sugar (1 March 2015)

Have you got a photo without the rug - possibly, my mare is similar & has some fawn shading on her legs too.


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## Wagtail (1 March 2015)

Minnies_Mum said:



			Do the colour experts agree with my wild bay assumption on my boy?  Pics on page 22 of this thread, I can't get photobucket to upload them again, would love to know what you think.
		
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He seems to have a very pale muzzle so I did wonder if he was brown, but usually brown horses are darker. I think you need Faracat for this one.


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## Spreebok (1 March 2015)

My 'barely counts as a coloured' Irish cob 







She has a dapply patch on her neck behind her ear on this side!






And a random little polka dot on her back this side!






A lot of white to keep clean! Worth it though 

ps: Her feet in particular are a lot cleaner now, those shots taken within first week of ownership. She's since had two very thorough baths and now she sparkles! (until she hits the field that is lmao)


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## Meems (1 March 2015)

I own a buckskin tobiano and very lovely she is too!


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## PerlinoPlank (1 March 2015)

As my username suggests, i've got a AQH perlino mare


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## ester (1 March 2015)

Minnies_Mum said:



			Do the colour experts agree with my wild bay assumption on my boy?  Pics on page 22 of this thread, I can't get photobucket to upload them again, would love to know what you think.
		
Click to expand...

I think that most likely


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## kassieg (1 March 2015)

I have a chestnut with flaxen mane & tail, a very very dark grey (almost black) & a bright bay


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## Fools Motto (1 March 2015)

A dark brown with ticking throughout (not roan, but similar)
Taken a few years ago, - she is a hairy lean yak currently, not fit for show!











And a bay - of 2 weeks. Got a photo, but again not fit for show due to bad hair cut!! lol


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## Wagtail (1 March 2015)

Fools Motto said:



			A dark brown with ticking throughout (not roan, but similar)
Taken a few years ago, - she is a hairy lean yak currently, not fit for show!











And a bay - of 2 weeks. Got a photo, but again not fit for show due to bad hair cut!! lol
		
Click to expand...

Is it possible she is a brown buckskin like my mare? She's a little darker but the pale muzzle is less red than would be the case if see was a normal seal brown.


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## Sukistokes2 (1 March 2015)

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Have to do this over two posts because of my iPad!!
Moses, my 13.2hh( still growing) piebald traditional gypsy cob


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## Sukistokes2 (1 March 2015)

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Ffin 15.3 hh Dark bay shire x


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## westerngirl (1 March 2015)

We have a collection of Appaloosa's (not sure of the collective noun!) 
Black blanket spot
Bay lacy blanket
Seal brown frosted hip
Bay extended blanket that I expect will turn to a bay near leopard
Few spot  with 6 chestnut spots!  and due a baby in June 
oh and a Skewbald Sele Franscais !


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## Fools Motto (1 March 2015)

Wagtail said:



			Is it possible she is a brown buckskin like my mare? She's a little darker but the pale muzzle is less red than would be the case if see was a normal seal brown.
		
Click to expand...

I highly doubt it. Her parents were both bay. At times she looks black, and it is only due to her muzzle that I know (certainly assume) that she has to be brown. Would love a buckskin again though, (had some in the past) never get a bad one!


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## Bobbly (1 March 2015)

I have a skewbald....





a palobald......





A spotty dotty kinda thing....





and a Poobald.....









who should look like this...


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## fredders (1 March 2015)

I think my horse is a bay blanket spot but I am not sure if he is a varnish roan. He has  got more white on him then when I got him but the roan bits on the bay seem to come and go. He also had more white in his mane and tail when I got him. He is 9 this year and still pretty bay. I will try to post some pics. Not sure I know how to do it though.





This is him now





This is him when I first got him nearly 3 years ago


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## fredders (1 March 2015)

Oh i couldn't get it to work. The pics are in my album in my profile &#9786;


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## Roasted Chestnuts (1 March 2015)

My boy is black Rabicano  we think Welsh D x Appaloosa but not concrete.


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## Feival (1 March 2015)

He is gorgeous, BB


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## Meowy Catkin (2 March 2015)

Wagtail said:



			I agree that they are both genetically identical in respect of the E+ gene but there are modifying and intensifying genes at work as well. Jet black (non fading) is recessive to fading black due to the intensifying gene being affected by the fading gene (Jeanette Gower - Horse Colour explained). Of course this is a relatively old book and so may be wrong. I haven't looked into it other than read this book.
		
Click to expand...

It's certainly a hotly debated subject. Maybe one day it will be fully explained, but there is gathering evidence that formally 'fading black' horses stop fading once fed a good vit&min supplement, which does make me lean towards it being a nutritional issue.

http://www.balancedequine.com.au/nutrition/bleaching.html


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## Roasted Chestnuts (2 March 2015)

Faracat said:



			It's certainly a hotly debated subject. Maybe one day it will be fully explained, but there is gathering evidence that formally 'fading black' horses stop fading once fed a good vit&min supplement, which does make me lean towards it being a nutritional issue.

http://www.balancedequine.com.au/nutrition/bleaching.html

Click to expand...

Those top two pics of my boy were taken in August/sept last year, he's still pretty black ( well the bits that aren't roan lol) he lives out from April to Oct/Nov rugged if necessary but not all the time.

I don't feed him any specific vit supplement but wondering if the Rabicano gene is making him keep his colour or is it the turmeric lol


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## Meowy Catkin (2 March 2015)

Or you could be lucky and your grazing isn't badly deficient in any important minerals.


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## Roasted Chestnuts (2 March 2015)

The Tank said:



			He is gorgeous, BB
		
Click to expand...

Thanks  I think so too but I maybe biased after 14yrs of ownership lol he has gotten more roan as the years have went on. He was described on his passport as Black Cob when I bought him at 10 all those years ago lol



Faracat said:



			Or you could be lucky and your grazing isn't badly deficient in any important minerals. 

Click to expand...

I'm liking the sound of that from him being barefoot and never footy


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## tallyho! (2 March 2015)

Poobald!!! lol!!!!!! 

I like the palobald


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## Pinky94 (2 March 2015)

bay and white filly, splash white and sabino in the mix as well??  bald face & one & a half blue eyes.


piebald miniature shetland, lots of areas where his white is mixing into the black bits.

chestnut mare, normal gingerness in the winter but her summer coat is gorgeous, very coppery and shiny and covered in pale black spots and white flecking throughout her coat!


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## Feival (2 March 2015)

Buzz going in to his most 'Buckskin' stage in the year


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## Wagtail (2 March 2015)

The Tank said:



			Buzz going in to his most 'Buckskin' stage in the year






Click to expand...

Gorgeous! I just love his face.


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## Feival (2 March 2015)

Thanks Wagtail, I love it too, along with the rest of him, despite him being a grumpy old man.


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## ElandFly (3 March 2015)

Fly is passported as bay but his mane and tail aren't actually black so I'm assuming he's actually seal brown?






the photo shows his summer coat although he is usually more dappled. In the winter he is much darker with lighter patches around the eyes and muzzle.


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## joulsey (3 March 2015)

So its starting to seem that in fact, a lot of the horses we presume are bay are in fact seal brown. From being a little girl I have always know that bay means they should have black points, but I guess as I got older all I really looked at was main body colour, mane tail and legs.

I read this thread the other day and now each time I see a "bay" horse I'm automatically looking at the muzzle/eyes/flanks and correcting my self in my head!


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## Wagtail (3 March 2015)

ElandFly said:



			Fly is passported as bay but his mane and tail aren't actually black so I'm assuming he's actually seal brown?





the photo shows his summer coat although he is usually more dappled. In the winter he is much darker with lighter patches around the eyes and muzzle.
		
Click to expand...

He's a lovely colour. A kind of walnut. I suspect that he is brown rather than bay, yes. My girl is brown based and her mane, tail and points are really dark brown rather than black.


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## Feival (3 March 2015)

Buzz's mane and tail are properly black, and his legs just passed his knees and below his hocks. I used to have a lovely roan and white cob mare, will dig out a picture. She was known as moo as she looked like the cow from the magic round about.


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