# Had it with the hunt



## Penny Eater (6 March 2015)

I've always been a supporter of hunting. Only been twice myself, but I saw it as a valuable tradition, and (probably daftly) a bit of a symbol of a more rustic, bygone era. I expect I'll get some comments saying I'm a lying sab, but I know the truth and that's really all that matters to me. 

We have two hunts in our area, with permission from the landowner for them to cross the land, but not to enter the fields with horses (DIY liveries, of which my own horse is one). Sometimes they did if some of the hounds went in and one or two hunt staff had to retrieve them, which upset the horses a bit but was understandable. However, in the space of a month, one hunt had a pack of hounds in the landowners front garden, with hounds subsequently running all over the stable yard. There were 3 horses in the stables that day, and they went into an absolute panic, practically climbing the walls. It was a miracle none of them were seriously injured. 

Then just this week, the second hunt (who were holding a joint meet with another hunt not from the area) and were instructed just the day before by the landowner that they were only to stick to the track across the front fields (open and used for sheep grazing) and NOT under any circumstances to enter the horses field beside it, decided to take the whole pack across our field. One lady fell off, so there was a loose horse running with our horses for a good while before they could retrieve it. They also damaged some boundary fencing, and when confronted by the landowner began berating her (didn't recognise her as the landowner, unfortunately for them) demanding she not touch the fence (when she did, it fell over) and what did she think she was doing here. 
Another livery asked one of the hunt masters why they were in the field and got a very indignant 'we closed the gates behind us' in reply. 
When I got my horse in later he was still shaking and dripping in sweat. There are elderly horses in that field, some of whom could've dropped dead from all the stress they were put through that day. It took 2 days for them all to calm down enough to be able to get them in and do anything with them. 
Upshot of all this is both hunts have now been banned by the landowner, so their total lack of thought and respect for others has just ruined it for themselves really. 
I'm afraid I will never again be able to support hunting, after seeing the arrogant, selfish attitude of two hunts, neither of whom have apologised or shown any appreciation of what they have done, or what their actions could have led to. Obviously common folks beloved 'pets' aren't as important to them as getting a good days hunting.


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## Alec Swan (6 March 2015)

Are you prepared to name the Packs concerned,  and are you prepared to lodge a formal complaint with the MFHA?

Alec.


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## Penny Eater (6 March 2015)

I wasn't aware that was an option, but I will certainly look into it. Although I'm not quite sure what good can come of it. Complaints have been lodged with the individual hunts involved, who will recognise themselves from the incidents described. The landowner has informed them that if they come on the land again the police will be called, so that's the best outcome for all as far as I'm concerned. 
As an ex-hunt supporter I'm just very upset that our trust was betrayed like this, and our horses put at risk.


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## L&M (6 March 2015)

I hunt myself and our local pack has several meets near my yard each season - fortunately I am always informed and stable the horses 'just in case'.

The problem is that hounds may go 'off trail' and end up where they shouldn't be, and all it takes is an ill informed field master or huntsman, and the entire pack/field can be in the wrong place, wreaking havoc.

Only last week I was shocked to see the entire pack and field crossing my field - they did not, and never have had, permission to cross it so was not very happy. However at least the horses were in, and the field relatively dry, but I am sure if I had kicked up a fuss I would have had a prompt apology.

It will ultimately be those hunts that suffer so very short sighted off the packs involved, and totally agree that the MFHA should be informed.

I love my days spent hunting, but can equally appreciate what a nuisance our hobby can be&#8230;


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## Alec Swan (6 March 2015)

The Master of Fox Hounds Association takes very seriously,  well founded complaints which bring hunting in to disrepute,  I assure you.  Assuming that you're being truthful,  as I'm sure that you are,  the conduct of those involved was disgraceful.  The West Norfolk,  NEVER fail to 'phone us the night before when we have had heavily in foal mares turned out,  and they would never condone such conduct.

If you don't complain to those who oversee Hunting,  then you give those who behave badly,  the green light to continue as they are.  Tis up to you!

Alec.


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## Tiddlypom (6 March 2015)

Alec Swan said:



			If you don't complain to those who oversee Hunting,  then you give those who behave badly,  the green light to continue as they are.  Tis up to you!

Alec.
		
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Absolutely this. Report them. Make them squirm.

Otherwise nothing will change.


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## Penny Eater (6 March 2015)

That's true Alec, I will put in a complaint this weekend. We've all just been so shocked by it to be honest, I hadn't even thought of taking it to the MFHA. The hunt involved on Tuesday have passed the buck and blamed it on the visiting hunt, and even insisted we're not even their regular country, which is odd because they very often meet near us and come across the landowner's farmland. 
We were informed by the landowner prior to the hunt, but in light of what had happened with the preceding hunt, it was thought safer to leave them all out in the field, and as I said, we and the landowner were told that the hunt would only be passing, not that the whole field would be tearing across our horses' field.


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## Clodagh (7 March 2015)

That is appalling. We are still suffering from when the hunt met here and did lots of things to upset our neighbours in every direction, we are the ones who have copped the complaints. 

L&M - a genuine interested question, but one that intrigues both my husband and myself, you go hunting and go on other peoples land, yet you don't allow them on yours? Does that not seem odd?


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## Charlie007 (7 March 2015)

I too am not in anyway against the hunt and have hunted myself but these occasions of total disregard for landowners wishes are becoming more frequent.

Couple of examples 

Hunt rang my boss to ask permission to hunt on his land. MY boss said under no circumstances did he want them on his land. Hunt met up and off they went. Couple of hours later where we're they?? Yes you have guessed, all over his land, no apology.

Few weeks ago hunt met, farmer had given them permission to ride on certain parts of his land but told them where they were definitely not to go. This part of his land has been out of bounds for years. Where did they go, yes you have guessed it, met then rode straight to the out of bounds land!!! They did ring to apologize but I assume only because they want to hunt his other land shortly!!  Havnt seen any one laying a trail yet tho!!!!


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## Alec Swan (7 March 2015)

Charlie007 said:



			I too am not in anyway against the hunt and have hunted myself but these occasions of total disregard for landowners wishes are becoming more frequent.

Couple of examples &#8230;&#8230;.. !

&#8230;&#8230;..
		
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So tell me,  is whinging on here the limits of your abilities?

Alec.


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## Judgemental (7 March 2015)

Alec Swan said:



			So tell me,  is whinging on here the limits of your abilities?

Alec.
		
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Quite Alec, if somebody (Charlie007) is going to air their grievances on this site, then they should be prepared to name the hunt, the masters and the secretary. Otherwise one has to conclude they are not genuine.


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## Goldenstar (7 March 2015)

Knowing the lengths our hunt goes to not to get it wrong , I struggle with the concept that others are taking a cavalier attitude to all this .


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## L&M (7 March 2015)

Sorry Clodagh - just seen your question and a valid point.

The reasons I do not allow them on my land is that we have liveries as well as my own horses - in the past liveries horses have been upset by the hunt. If I was sheep farmer I would not have an issue (unless my stock was disturbed/gates left open etc).

I also think it is very different a pack passing quietly through a field of sheep, to entering a field of horses&#8230;.

With my pack we hunt a lot of moorland, common land and large open estates. The fields are small and we are very respectful of any land we are allowed to hunt. Very rarely do we go near any horse yards/studs but they are always informed as a priority, as horses are the stock most likely to be upset, or do damage, by the sound and sights of the hunt.


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## Charlie007 (7 March 2015)

Can't really be bothered to name and shame on here. Just giving a few examples. The hunts know who they are, they don't need me to point out their flaws. It's not my land they have misused so my involvement does go as far as having a little wine on here I'm afraid. Again I point out I have yet to see a trail being laid?? Please tell me, those of you who believe they hunt within in law, exactly when these trails are laid?? Genuine question


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## Apercrumbie (7 March 2015)

Judgemental said:



			Quite Alec, if somebody (Charlie007) is going to air their grievances on this site, then they should be prepared to name the hunt, the masters and the secretary. Otherwise one has to conclude they are not genuine.
		
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Why?  Many of us come on this forum for a bit of a rant.  The examples that Charlie007 has used can't be complained about by him/her because he/she isn't the landowner.  I would far rather someone had a bit of a rant on here, and complained properly to the hunt and appropriate body in private if they can than have people slagging off various hunts left right and centre.  There is no need to name and shame if either the issue is being dealt with by another body or if there is little to be done.


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## Tiddlypom (7 March 2015)

Goldenstar said:



			Knowing the lengths our hunt goes to not to get it wrong , I struggle with the concept that others are taking a cavalier attitude to all this .
		
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GS, I was gobsmacked at the difference in attitude when I moved here from the West Country, where I had hunted extensively as a teenager. Back there, it was small, friendly packs who fitted seamlessly into country life.

It seems to be taking some packs an eon to realise that a hunt is no longer number one priority traffic in rural areas. Hunting is an important part of country life, but nowadays it has to fit in and around with everything else, not ride rough shod over all in its path.

Currently things are going ok here for me (in being notified of when my local pack is likely to be near here) but I dread every change of mastership, as I have to start again from scratch. Tales of woe and unauthorised access to off limits land are legion. For instance, one of my vets had to hide in a stable (as she recognised some of her clients in the field!) when her farmer OH had a major rant at the hunt for riding over land which they had been specifically told to avoid.

A former master whinged to me (when I complained about non notification of hounds coming to me) that 'of course, these days, there are so many people with an acre and a pony that seem to want to know when we are coming'!! Well, yes, actually.

If you can't do the job properly, don't do it at all.

It is perfectly possible to be pro hunting, but anti arrogant and boorish behaviour by the masters and followers of certain packs.


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## Penny Eater (7 March 2015)

Tiddlypom said:



			GS, I was gobsmacked at the difference in attitude when I moved here from the West Country, where I had hunted extensively as a teenager. Back there, it was small, friendly packs who fitted seamlessly into country life.

It seems to be taking some packs an eon to realise that a hunt is no longer number one priority traffic in rural areas. Hunting is an important part of country life, but nowadays it has to fit in and around with everything else, not ride rough shod over all in its path.

Currently things are going ok here for me (in being notified of when my local pack is likely to be near here) but I dread every change of mastership, as I have to start again from scratch. Tales of woe and unauthorised access to off limits land are legion. For instance, one of my vets had to hide in a stable (as she recognised some of her clients in the field!) when her farmer OH had a major rant at the hunt for riding over land which they had been specifically told to avoid.

A former master whinged to me (when I complained about non notification of hounds coming to me) that 'of course, these days, there are so many people with an acre and a pony that seem to want to know when we are coming'!! Well, yes, actually.

If you can't do the job properly, don't do it at all.

It is perfectly possible to be pro hunting, but anti arrogant and boorish behaviour by the masters and followers of certain packs.
		
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Completely agree. And for Judgemental, the first hunt I referred to was the Warwickshire, and the second the Pytchley, joint meet with the Bicester visiting.


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## paulineh (7 March 2015)

I have to admit that I find Hunting today far different from that of yesteryear. I hunted with a fox pack for many years and found them really friendly. New comers were welcome.

For personal reasons when I moved house I gave it up. Recently I decided to take one of mine to a local drag hunt. Other than speaking to someone I already knew I found them unfriendly. The only thing that they were worried about was that I had not signed their disclaimer. At the time I was on forestry land that I ride on every day and as a matter of fact I'm one of the TROT local agents (Forest Wardens) for that area.

I will not be going to that hunt again, Not necessarily for all the above but I find Drag hunting boring  in comparison to Fox Hunting.

Some hunts do think they can go where they want without regard to other people


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## Charlie007 (8 March 2015)

Can anyone give me an answer as to exactly when the trial is laid?????????????


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## Alec Swan (8 March 2015)

I sometimes wonder why the sabs bother themselves.  It seems to me from what I read,  that Hunting will bring about its own demise,  without any assistance!

Alec.


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## Doormouse (8 March 2015)

S



Alec Swan said:



			I sometimes wonder why the sabs bother themselves.  It seems to me from what I read,  that Hunting will bring about its own demise,  without any assistance!

Alec.
		
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Sadly Alec this is an opinion I have long held. Hunting is doing itself no favours at all these days due in many cases to weak Masterships with a lack of knowledge and a 'one hunt wonder' mentality.


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## Charlie007 (8 March 2015)

It sadly looks like my question can't be answered


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## Alec Swan (8 March 2015)

Charlie007 said:



			Can anyone give me an answer as to exactly when the trial is laid?????????????
		
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Charlie007 said:



			It sadly looks like my question can't be answered
		
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If by 'trial'  you meant 'trail',  then scent is a curious and barely understood factor of hunting.  I've watched a highly experienced Bloodhound follow a laid track who was 36 hours old.  Hunting Hounds don't tend to have quite such a well defined or advanced olfactory system,  though they do with years often appear to recognise a line which is old and one which isn't.

To answer your question,  I haven't a clue because such things are of no interest to me,  but I would guess that if Hounds met at say 11:00 in the morning,  then the trail would need to be laid from 09:00 o'clock onwards.  Just a guess mind! 

Alec.


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## JDH01 (8 March 2015)

I regularly trail lay and we always discuss where we can and can't go.  We lay a variety of trails from the evening before, sometimes 2 hrs before the meet and always during the hunting day. Unfortunately on occasions it goes wrong and hounds go onto land we have not been over but I would expect apologies and where necessary reparation when this happens.


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## nikkitodhunter (28 March 2015)

This thread has been so interesting to read - I'm actually pleasantly surprised to find such balanced opinions on here (!), one doesn't expect such sensible discussion on an internet forum, sadly. 

I'm tentatively pro-hunting - and the 'tentatively' is there because of precisely the disrespectful/irresponsible behaviour others have outlined above! I completely see the appeal of hunting, and while I'm not really very involved in it myself due to personal circumstances, I do support it when done properly.

However, because of the behaviour of certain hunts I find it very hard to defend hunting to others who have had their opinion blemished by bad experiences. I know a landowner who keeps a few rare breed sheep, and she told me a shocking story of hounds severely harassing and even physically attacking her stock. I was disbelieving until she showed me video evidence she managed to get as she went out to stop them! A local pack also used to charge past our livery yard/RS with no warning whatsoever, really disrupting lessons a few times with young kids on ponies that got excited by it - obviously, if the RS had known in advance, kids wouldn't have been riding at that time! The same pack also used to like to meet by taking up a well-used road by a pub and a rail station, blocking the road with horses, lorries, and cars, it was astoundingly disrespectful - and dangerous! Frankly, before reading this it had never occurred to me that you culd complain to MFHA - I will do so in future if I experience this again.

For people who don't hunt or who aren't involved in equestrianism, it is this behaviour that makes hunting so unpopular and hard to defend to those not part of its community. I always read with awe the H&H reports from hunts which sounds impeccably friendly and well-mannered, as our local pack is certainly very different :/


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## Ponycarrots (29 March 2015)

Whenever I've been hunting, the master and whippers in have always been OCD about keeping people off the crops/fields and making sure we all stay on the path. There was a time when one or two people let the side down by being stupid (but they were young...and drunk...) I think if this has happened to you it's very sad and is giving hunting a bad name, when really it's not about that; it is about tradition and bygone times and just having fun. 
I just think it's a shame when one hunt lets the sport down by being so blasè.


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## Smurf's Gran (29 March 2015)

Ponycarrots said:



			Whenever I've been hunting, the master and whippers in have always been OCD about keeping people off the crops/fields and making sure we all stay on the path. There was a time when one or two people let the side down by being stupid (but they were young...and drunk...) I think if this has happened to you it's very sad and is giving hunting a bad name, when really it's not about that; it is about tradition and bygone times and just having fun. 
I just think it's a shame when one hunt lets the sport down by being so blasè.
		
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I think from what people are saying its not just one though


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## Smurf's Gran (29 March 2015)

Charlie007 said:



			Can't really be bothered to name and shame on here. Just giving a few examples. The hunts know who they are, they don't need me to point out their flaws. It's not my land they have misused so my involvement does go as far as having a little wine on here I'm afraid. Again I point out I have yet to see a trail being laid?? Please tell me, those of you who believe they hunt within in law, exactly when these trails are laid?? Genuine question
		
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Charlie 007 - there was a thread on here several weeks ago when hunting within the law was discussed - and according to all the pro hunters on here  all hunting is within the law  - no one had ever seen any evidence of law breaking and no one believed it exists.  Opposition or disagreement was largely met with pure vitriol by a very dominant group (the type of people Nikkitodhunter describes I suppose) .   I would expect that is why no one is answering you for fear of getting embroiled in this type of disagreement.  (Oh ...apart from Alec Swan who has previously openly admitted hunting illegally on this forum)


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## Countryman (29 March 2015)

Indeed, it is such a shame when a small minority act irresponsibly and upset landowners, ruining it for the considerate majority, because everyone out hunting is effectively an ambassador for that hunt - sadly if you do something wrong, the hunt will be blamed-not you.


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## marmalade76 (29 March 2015)

Alec Swan said:



			I sometimes wonder why the sabs bother themselves.  It seems to me from what I read,  that Hunting will bring about its own demise,  without any assistance!

Alec.
		
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I think you're right, there, Alec, some really do not do themselves any favours, they seem to be alienating many people including those who are pro hunting.

I stopped supporting all one of my local hunt's events after being told more or less that they didn't want me out when they had lots of visitors and after hearing that attendance at their meets is now dropping right off my first thought was serves them jolly well right!


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