# Why do people think ivermectin horse wormers kill lice? Where have they got this idea



## thatsmygirl (21 July 2010)

As above really out off interest. I had a talk with a rep on wormers yeserday and bought this subject up much to his interest. So if you have been told this what's the thought behind it as to how it works on lice?


----------



## Penny Less (21 July 2010)

I used it for a shetland that was covered with lice, Im sure I read it on the net somewhere and it worked!


----------



## nativetyponies (21 July 2010)

I think this is where the confusion lies monsters

ivermectin comes as a paste wormer...and a powder/liquid de-louser.

its not always called ivermectin though


----------



## ceiron (21 July 2010)

ivermectin kills head lice, chicken mites/lice and certain other lice/mites.

i am not sure of the levels though, so some wormers may be effective for lice.


----------



## thatsmygirl (21 July 2010)

Ivermectin in the form off a pour on or injection yes will kill lice in cattle but in the form off a horse wormer no, as the drug goes into the horses stomach and will not aborb out so has no effect on lice.


----------



## BigRed (21 July 2010)

My local feed store, where they sell wormers, told me that a wormer would also kill lice.  I have to say I did not believe them.  I did have a wormer injection from the vet which worked, but the little buggers came back because I foolishly did not have the second jab !


----------



## nativetyponies (21 July 2010)

Monsters said:



			Ivermectin in the form off a pour on or injection yes will kill lice in cattle but in the form off a horse wormer no, as the drug goes into the horses stomach and will not aborb out so has no effect on lice.
		
Click to expand...

That is what I've always been led to believe


----------



## Enfys (21 July 2010)

Why do people think ivermectin horse wormers kill lice? Where have they got this idea? 

That would be my Vet then

I also use a little item, simply called "Dusting Powder"


----------



## JumpingJack1 (21 July 2010)

I thought it said on the box but I probabley just made that up


----------



## china (21 July 2010)

Monsters said:



			Ivermectin in the form off a pour on or injection yes will kill lice in cattle but in the form off a horse wormer no, as the drug goes into the horses stomach and will not aborb out so has no effect on lice.
		
Click to expand...

^^^this! in injection it is very affective, people just get confused about wether its injected or wormer paste.


----------



## thatsmygirl (21 July 2010)

It was quite interesting as the rep off a worming company asked if we had any questions after our talk so I bought this question up, he thinks it is because off the cattle pour ons and injections that people think if it's ivermectin it will kill lice but not horse wormers and no horse wormer states so on the box. If they could find a way off the wormers killing lice they would cash in on it. The way he put it was the wormer goes into the horses stomach and does not in any way absorb through the wall off the stomach so how would it be possible for the wormer to kill lice? It's not. Even the moxidectin wormers which does absorb into the gut wall would not be able to touch lice at all.


----------



## blitznbobs (21 July 2010)

My vet... told me that it kills biting insects but not sucking ones..

Oh and it works on humans too...

Blitz (human dr)


----------



## thatsmygirl (21 July 2010)

blitznbobs said:



			My vet... told me that it kills biting insects but not sucking ones..

Oh and it works on humans too...

Blitz (human dr)
		
Click to expand...

When the wormer can not be released though the gut wall how do you think it would be possable to kill biting insects? And sucking lice would be no different to biting insects. The worming companys are working on making such a product in the form off a wormer but nothing works yet.


----------



## Kaylum (21 July 2010)

Not sure where the ideas come from but the vet told me to worm every 10 weeks with a ivermectin wormer to get rid of leg mites not lice.  These are two totally different pests. 

He would not give my horse the injection as it was not licenced for horses so told me to worm.  That came from my horse vet?  So not sure.


----------



## blitznbobs (21 July 2010)

Monsters said:



			When the wormer can not be released though the gut wall how do you think it would be possable to kill biting insects? And sucking lice would be no different to biting insects. The worming companys are working on making such a product in the form off a wormer but nothing works yet.
		
Click to expand...

How does it kill incysted liver paracytes and blood born paracites then?


----------



## thatsmygirl (21 July 2010)

I don't know the in's and out's as it all got very complicated but it's moxidectin  wormers that do the inhibited and developing stages off encysted small red worm as that wormer does absorb into the wall off the stomach. The company was 100% certain that there produces do not treat lice as they make/trial and sell their produces but assured me they are working on it as it would be a money spinner. No cattle injection is not licensed for horses so can't use it but that's what we need something along those lines. If they can do it for cattle why not horses


----------



## glenruby (21 July 2010)

One thing you have said that si wrong is that you cannot use the cattle injection as it is not licenced. Yes, under the cascade you can use it - if treating for MITES as there is no licenced treatment for mites in horses. I would assume that since the likes of Deosect are on the market to treat lice in horses then Dectomax cannot be used for that purpose.


----------



## thatsmygirl (21 July 2010)

U may be able to get the injection via the vets if he so wishes to give it to you but you couldn't go into a shop and buy it for a horse because off the fact it ain't licenced or tested to use on horses.


----------



## Ravenwood (21 July 2010)

I am a little confused about this as I am not a scientific type person but my vet did tell me that ivomectin based wormers (but called by a different name as ivomectin is not licensed for horses - or wasn't at the time) was  good to use to help prevent ticks - we have an awful problems with ticks here - especially deer ticks that carry Lymes Disease.

So, is this true and which horse licensed wormers are ivomectin based?


----------



## thatsmygirl (21 July 2010)

I'm easy confused as well 
equimax is a ivermectin based wormer  ( may be spelt wrong, spelling not good) but the wormers such as equest paromox ( spelling again) is a moxidectin to treat the encysted.
We need a SQP to help here, must be some on here???


----------



## moses06 (21 July 2010)

O.K I will domy best to anwer this - it's late and my brain is not at full capacity!!

Ivermectin has a limited action against sucking lice which feed on the horse's blood, it can be absorbed into the horse's system,it doesn't as far as I know just stay in the gut as it's licenced to treat neck threadworms (rare) and pinworm, neither of which live in the gut - it will also destroys oral stages of bots - Moxidectin is slightly different as it's fat soluble.

As to why it's not stated on the box - it costs thousands and thousands of pounds to get a product through approval and onto the market, and my thinking is that as lice are not a persistant problem in the way that worms are it wouldn't be worth the companies time or money.

And I can't understand the facination with pumping cattle lice products into horses when we have Deosect approved for equine used, extensivley tested as highly effective against lice (MITES are a different matter and best cleared up by a vet or pig oil and sulphur!!)


----------



## sarahsnake (7 April 2012)

I owned a 2yr old colt  totally unhandled. he came to me with his coat  bald in places and  underweight. I used a wormer containing ivermectin and to my surprise also cured his bad lice problem


----------



## celia (7 April 2012)

I have also been told this by a vet and see no reason not to believe it. If I remember correctly it only works on the sucking lice as they feed on blood. The biting lice feed on dead skin so wouldn't be affected.


----------



## sidesaddlegirl (7 April 2012)

The vet told me it kills lice too.


----------



## **Vanner** (8 April 2012)

I'm surprised none of the ivomectin would be absorbed I would have thought some was capable of crossing the intestine wall.  The jab acts as a wormer so would suggest it can go across the wall.

I use the ivomectin wash for mites in feathers - it's brilliant stuff and IMHO much better than the injection or anything else.


----------



## Goldenstar (8 April 2012)

In my case from the vet.


----------



## EPRider (8 April 2012)

My vet used an ivermectin injection on a donkey with passengers.  As most wormers are not licenced for use in donkeys due to cost he said he was able to do this.  He did warn me before administering it that it would sting, and it did!  He said the oral stuff would not kill the passengers.

The donkey got the belt and braces approach of antibiotics and antibacterial wash, as well, due to secondary infections in rubbed areas and very poor body condition


----------



## Gingersmum (8 April 2012)

Vet told me to use it, in fact twice with a 10 day gap. I had to use with external 'coopers fly repellent plus' worked perfectly !


----------



## outhorsed (11 July 2013)

Have just been advised by Liverpool university to mix Ivermectin with Vaseline to apply to a treated sarcoid to keep flies off it - so must have insecticidal properties?


----------



## midnightthunder (11 July 2013)

Well like many others I heard it or rather read it on the internet - along with much guff about the treatment of lice - my understanding was that if a horse had lice and was run down, elderly,  underweight or ill and was wormed with Ivermectin then this would improve the body condition and help to kill the lice not certain of the accuracy of this as not a pharmaceutical rep or a vet. But as I said on another thread best and cheapest solution I know that does not involve any stress to the animal is douse coat with Ant Powder that contains Permerthrin (sorry still cant spell it) kills lice immediately or as an emergency if no ant powder available grab a jar of mayonaise smoother the effected areas allow to dry and then brush out both work and a damn site cheaper that propriertary medicines or an injection from the vet. Sorry OP deviated from your question.


----------



## Jesstickle (11 July 2013)

Ivermectin does kill lice. Or at least the ones which drink blood. 

Also, you have a very funny idea of what a digestive system does if you think that things that go in there aren't absorbed into the blood. That is what your intestine does 

How do you think aspirin works?

I am a geek and just googled the bioavailability of iver in horses. It is absolutely detectable in plasma after oral dosing and therefore DOES categorically enter the blood.


----------



## Amicus (11 July 2013)

Ivermectin is definitely taken up by the blood stream this is why its dangerous to give to collie type dogs as many carry a faulty gene which is responsible for the protein that ensure ivermectin is not allowed to build up in the brain. 

I suspect it would probably work for sucking but not chewing lice (chewers live on skin not blood) and drug companies cannot state this as it hasn't be tested. Equally it might not be worth it for the companies as horses can have sucking or chewing lice so without a microscope and confirming they're suckers you've only got a 50% chance of it killing them off.


----------



## putasocinit (11 July 2013)

Something to do with fleas cause worms so its a cycle that needs to be broken. Are lice part of the flea family?


----------



## AdorableAlice (11 July 2013)

What is the difference between doramectin (dectomax jab) and ivermectin oral wormer.  Every time we jab for mites with dectomax we worm the horse being treated for mites.


----------

