# Dog weeing and pooing overnight!! Help



## overworked&underpaid (28 February 2011)

Hi all
Its the first time that I have posted on the Dog section of this site but having read a few posts, I am sure that there is someone on here who can advise me, you all seem very knowledgable!
I have a 10 month old bitch, who is the most beautiful, placid dog you could wish for.  I have just one problem with her!
She is fed during the week at approximately 7.15/7.30am on dried food and then again in the evening between 6.00/6.30pm when she has dried biscuits with a little meat added in for a treat!
My problem is her toileting during the night.  I usually let her out for about 10-15 minutes when I go to bed in the evening about 10.00pm and I am usually up at 7.00am.  Every morning when I come down she has either done a wee, a poo or both!!  She is house trained at all other times and I dont have any issues with that, she asks to be let out when she wants to go.
The other thing that frustrates me is that at weekends I go to stay with my partner, the bedtimes etc are roughly the same (although if anything I am usually not up until 9.00am, so that is even longer than at home) but she never ever makes any mess over night when we are there!!!!  So I KNOW that she can go without the toilet over night!!
What suggestions do you have??????  
I tell her off when I get downstairs and there is mess, she knows that she has been naughty as well as she sits on her bed with her back to me when I come through the door (what she does when she has been naughty and knows it LOL).
I am really getting frustrated with it.  Like I say, more so as I know that she is able to go over night without making any mess.
Can anyone suggest ANYTHING!
Sorry for long post.


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## Amymay (28 February 2011)

I tell her off when I get downstairs and there is mess
		
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Have you tried walking her prior to bed - rather than just letting her out??


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## littlemisslauren (28 February 2011)

Telling her off after she has done a wee or poop will achieve nothing. She won't asssociate the punishment with the crime.


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## overworked&underpaid (28 February 2011)

I know what you are saying and I agree but its very difficult, particularly when she knows that she has done wrong.  I dont really tell her off as such but I do tell her that she has been a naughty girl.... obviously she doesnt take any notice LOL!


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## overworked&underpaid (28 February 2011)

amymay said:





Have you tried walking her prior to bed - rather than just letting her out??
		
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Unfortunately, I am not able to take her out for a walk.  I am a single Mum and my little 5 year old is in bed, so cant leave the house!  She is walked earlier in the evening.


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## Amymay (28 February 2011)

overworked&underpaid said:



			Unfortunately, I am not able to take her out for a walk.  I am a single Mum and my little 5 year old is in bed, so cant leave the house!  She is walked earlier in the evening.
		
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Fair enough.  How about feeding her earlier, and letting her out earlier (say 9.00pm) and then again before you go to bed.

Do you take away any left over food and water when you go to bed?

How much exercise is she getting generally??


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## Spudlet (28 February 2011)

She doesn't know she's done wrong - dogs do not think like that. She knows that every time you come downstairs you seem cross with her, so she will giving you appeasing signals to try and avert this, which you are interpreting as guilt. But dogs do not have morals, they don't know right and wrong in that way.

Anyway! Try cutting her evening meal - feed her all she needs in the morning instead, or maybe at midday?


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## overworked&underpaid (28 February 2011)

amymay said:



			Fair enough.  How about feeding her earlier, and letting her out earlier (say 9.00pm) and then again before you go to bed.

Do you take away any left over food and water when you go to bed?

How much exercise is she getting generally??
		
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There is never any food left after her evening meal, so the only thing that I leave down is her water.  She is let out at regular intervals through the evening and when she asks, so she is getting plenty of opportunities to go to the loo.  
She gets a run in the morning and a walk in the evening.
The same routine is in place at weekends, nothing changes but she is able to hold her business until the morning!


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## CAYLA (28 February 2011)

I agree with the other, a few things inc feeding earlier may help her hold if you are unable to do that then half the meal or make it a very light meal.
Creating a smaller space to teach/help her to hold, not neccesarily a crate but maybe a baby pen thats would fit around her bed.
A black out blind incase it the light breaking thats getting her up/a radio on low incase it a noise thats disturbing her. Because it could well be a disturbance thing.
DAP plug in incase she is getting a little stressed.
A walk as suggested may losen her up more for passing a motion as opposed to a potter around the garden
Also as spud/LML suggests, its your body language she is picking up on, she does not know what she has done is wrong and associaing the 2, and she now knows the morning routuine, you come down furious
Where is she kept when you go to your partners and she holds?


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## overworked&underpaid (28 February 2011)

CAYLA ... thanks for your suggestions....
Sorry if I have made it sound like I am really angry with her, I can assure you that I am not, I am rather a push over where she is concerned! I dont think that I have painted a very good picture of how I am with her when I come downstairs!
I do not think that she is getting stressed, as I do not hear a peep out of her at night times, she has been brilliant since the day that I had her.
I agree with the walk before bedtime but as mentioned in my previous response to amymay, I am not able to take her out at bedtime.
When we are away, she is kept in the kitchen on her bed (which is transported from home), similar to when she is at home.
I do make a fuss of her as well if she has been good in the mornings but not sure whether that makes any difference.  
I really dont want to cage her, only because she is used to having the run of the kitchen but if it will put an end to this then maybe its worth a try.


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## overworked&underpaid (28 February 2011)

Sorry, I meant to ask what a DAP plug in is... sorry for being a bit thick!


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## CAYLA (28 February 2011)

It is a plug in that dispenses an appeasing pheromone that helps calm, it mimics the pheromone released when puppies suckle from the mother.

I would 1st and foremost as suggested feed her earlier and she is that will be enough, you would be surprised at how better thy can hold when feed a bit earlier without that meal on the stomach much later, if not I would then go for the more confined space to teach her to hold once more and start again.


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## Sandstone1 (28 February 2011)

overworked&underpaid said:



			I know what you are saying and I agree but its very difficult, particularly when she knows that she has done wrong.  I dont really tell her off as such but I do tell her that she has been a naughty girl.... obviously she doesnt take any notice LOL!
		
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She does not "know she has done wrong" its your body language that tells her you are not happy about something.
try feeding her a bit earlier in the evening, cut out the meat if you are feeding a complete food, try taking her out for a short walk last thing at night if you can. you could also try giving her a bigger breakfast and a smaller dinner. Let her out a bit later last thing at night maybe 11pm for a while to see if it makes a differance.


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## Cedars (1 March 2011)

Chloe wasn't clean through the night until about 16months. 

I would be crating her. And thinking about all the little differences in routine when she is dry. Xx


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## Skippys Mum (1 March 2011)

It sounds as though she just doenst realise she is not meant to go there.  When you go to your partners, its a different environment and she has realised that going in that kitchen is wrong.  

To me, it looks as though she isnt having a problem with the holding on as much as she just hasnt sussed where she is meant to go.

Personally, I would crate or pen her into a smaller space and restart her toilet training.  Do it over a weekend when your partner can watch your child and watch her like a hawk.  Loads of praise when she goes outside and gets it right and just ignore it when she gets it wrong.

She could possibly be going because she is worried about you coming down in the mornings.  She wont realise you are only unhappy because she has done the toilet in the wrong place.  She may have gone because of nerves if she is worrying?


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## MurphysMinder (1 March 2011)

You say you let her out at 10 pm, if you don't already it might be worth actually going out in the garden with her and giving her whatever command you use for her and then loads of praise when she does go.  If she is out on her own she may just sit by the door waiting to be let in, I do understand how difficult it is being on your own with a young child, I was in the same situation.  Also give your kitchen floor a really, really good cleaning, not suggesting it is dirty but if the slightest scent remains it will encourage her to go there.


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## overworked&underpaid (1 March 2011)

Thank you all very much for your advice.  I am slightly worried that I have made a bigger issue of being cross with her and have made it sound like I am nasty to her when she does go during the night!
I shall take all the advice on board and will try limiting her area during the night.
Someone else mentioned about getting hold of a floor cleaner (not sure where from) that will remove all the scent.  In fact now I come to think of it, she usually wees in roughly the same area each time!
Thanks again.


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## Amymay (1 March 2011)

OP - I awoke this morning thinking about this post.

I wonder if (even though you may not realise it) the dog gets more exercise at the weekend, and so more opportunity for a relaxed 'toilet'.  My partner's son's dog does.  We have it at the weekend and it has far more exercise with us then when at 'home'.  Despite being let out regularly at home - it messes there quite regularly.  Never, ever with us though, and that is despite very long lie in's........

I was also thinking about where she goes in the house - and was going to suggest putting some paper down to assist with the clear up.  But that may go against best advice - not sure.............


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## Ranyhyn (1 March 2011)

Spudlet said:



			Anyway! Try cutting her evening meal - feed her all she needs in the morning instead, or maybe at midday?
		
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I'm suprised to see this advice unchallenged!  Some people seemed mortified to hear I was feeding my dogs once a day for much the same reason... none as queer as folk I guess!


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## CAYLA (1 March 2011)

Kitsune said:



			I'm suprised to see this advice unchallenged!  Some people seemed mortified to hear I was feeding my dogs once a day for much the same reason... none as queer as folk I guess!
		
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That just not fair

Spuds, how dare you suggest that, it's plain cruel 

Feel better kitsune?


For what it's worth a dog in my household of this age would be on one meal by now anyway


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## Ranyhyn (1 March 2011)

So its NOT bad to feed one meal a day instead of two?  I can never keep up!


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## CAYLA (1 March 2011)

Kitsune said:



			So its NOT bad to feed one meal a day instead of two?  I can never keep up!
		
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Depends who you are talking to/taking advice from Lol, not by me it isn't. I have never fed my dogs 2 meals a day, I will feed puppies 2 meals a day up to about 8-9 months, then it's one meal a day for life
Pancake has been on 1 meal since 7 months of age, she has not needed 2 from there on.


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## MurphysMinder (1 March 2011)

I'm not sure if anyone said it was bad to just feed once,your post asked people how many feeds a day they gave and most replied two.  Also you were looking to stop your 2 messing during the day, whereas the OP here is trying to stop messing at night, so it is a different time scale, yet I think in both instances one feed in the morning was mentioned.


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## Ranyhyn (1 March 2011)

Yeah maybe you are right MM, however no-one has taken the time to suggest any realistic alternatives though.. 

I might pm you about this now Cayla


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## Sandstone1 (1 March 2011)

Kitsune said:



			So its NOT bad to feed one meal a day instead of two?  I can never keep up!
		
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It depends on the dog. some are ok on one feed others need two or they will scavenge etc. I work with dogs and most are on two feeds.


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## Ranyhyn (1 March 2011)

I thought it harked back to the wolf you see, where they were conditioned to gorge and then survive depending on when they were lucky enough to get a kill/scavenge etc...?


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## CAYLA (1 March 2011)

Kitsune said:



			I thought it harked back to the wolf you see, where they were conditioned to gorge and then survive depending on when they were lucky enough to get a kill/scavenge etc...?
		
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Yes most dogs will gorge, thats why we see so many obese, as owners interprut this as hunger

That is more the way I look at it, but also dogs do not need food on the basis we do they do not suffer energy slumps/feel weak the way we do when we do not take in the energy we need via food to equal to our activity, they are built totally different and they burn different stores to us, hence them being able to run non stop on without a scrap of food in them.


My dogs weight is perfect on one meal, there is no good reason IMO they need 2 meals unless im thinking "they must be hungry and need beakfast like me" (my friend does) and it makes me laugh.
Never the less some choose to feed twice but there really is no reason for it.
Some dogs are scavangers no matter what they are fed, greed will see them eat whatever is put in front of them in whatever quantity, my mams rotti once ate moe than half a 15kg sack of food in one pop (hungry) me thinks not, he looked like a whale, he must have been stuffed like a pig (vomiting was induced)
Some dogs will regulate food in a more natural manor, eat for a day, leave it for a few, I see nothing wrong with this aslong as its offered and the dogs weight is maintained (not meaning fat) either lean will do me
Its not uncommon for dogs in a single dog household to go along time with no food, because they simply dont need it so frequrntly and have no competition.
We have never fed the rescues 2 meals a day either.

Anyhow that was all rather boring
And it's up to the dog owner what they want to feed/when, we are just all different
If you want to feed your 2 once, there is no reason what so ever why you should not.
I shall answer your PM, where is the post re you asking for advice? PM me it, Im lazy


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## Vizslak (1 March 2011)

Fwiw Flora cant have one meal a day...she pukes bile if her tummy is empty! She is the only dog I have ever known do this though


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## CAYLA (1 March 2011)

Vizslak said:



			Fwiw Flora cant have one meal a day...she pukes bile if her tummy is empty! She is the only dog I have ever known do this though 

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Yeah but your a weirdo  which prob makes your dog one too


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## Vizslak (1 March 2011)

No I'm not...but Flora is a vizsla not a proper dog!


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## overworked&underpaid (9 March 2011)

Thought I would give you all a little up date on this post!  It seemed to go off on a tangent about feeding lol!
I have taken on board most of the advice that you gave, although I have still not tried the crate idea.  I just really want to make this a last resort.
Unfortunately the problem of the wee and poo over night has not got any better but she is clean during the day.  Whereas when I used to come from work, she would have messed, weed, over the last week or so this has stopped!  So that is very good.  The amount of time she is at home when I am at work varies but can be anything up to 5/6 hours! As I said before when I am at home, there is no problem, she makes sure that she gets my attention to let her out or she barks at the back door to get my attention.
I have made sure that when I let her out in the evening just before bedtime, that I go out with her to make sure that she has a wee and does not just stand near the back door as soon as I close it!
It has still not made any difference.  I even witnessed her going for a poo when I let her out at bedtime but in the morning when I came down, she had done another poo and three wees!!!  Although instead of telling her she had been a bad girl, I basically ignored it.  Just let her out without any fuss, i.e cuddles, stroking etc. Which is the opposite of the fuss she gets made of her when she has been clean during the day!
It looks like I may have to take the crate option which I really dont want to do.  
This may sound like a daft question but once I have gone done that route with the crate overnight.  Will I have to stick to that permanently or will it be possible to just leave the door open and then she will have the option.  Sorry I am not very knowledgable about crate training.
I have another puppy arriving in 5/6 weeks, so I would really really like to be making some head way with this by the time she comes!  I will then probably use the same method with her!
Sorry this has turned out far longer than I had wanted! Sorry all.
As I am still new on here not sure of all the sayings but I suggest something along the lines of hot choccy with squirty cream and a walnut whip in order for those that have stuck with this post!!!!!


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## Booboos (9 March 2011)

Why are you so worried about the crate? From the dog's point of view the crate is NOT a punishment or a prison, it's a safe place to retire to and mimicks the kind of conditions the puppy would have had in the wild (a small lair to retreat to). Make sure you introduce the crate correctly, i.e. do not force her in there, allow her to get used to it graduall over a period of time, do not shut her in at first, give her treats in there, etc. and it is more than likely to solve all your house training problems. 

You may find that a variety of issues get worse/regress with a new puppy. The new puppy is bound to have accidents and this may set off your older puppy, recall may be more difficult and the two may egg each other on to greater mischief. If you can spend a lot of time with each dog on its own, training and working on individual behaviours.


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## reddie (9 March 2011)

We had asimilar problemwith our jrtx rescue dog.  She messed at night and inthe day at times.  We were advised onhere to try crating her.  I was very reluctant as I didn't like the idea.  However it was the best thing we did.  She s now clean most of the time.  After about 3 or 4 months she no longer needs to be crated at night.  We still crate her when out,but are trying to wean her off this


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## CAYLA (9 March 2011)

You would not have to use the crate forever, you would be teaching her to hold once more and then you could gradually phase it out (never be to hasty to do that)
If you would like a crate guide and a puppy guide for the new arrival Pm me your e.mail and I will send you one.

All you need do for now is purchase a crate (not a huge one) put it up, cover it with a blanket and put a lovely comfy bed in there leave the door open and let her explore for a week or so and get used it jsut being there before you even start with the positive associations, you may be surprised to find she will take herself in there before you even start with the routine


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