# Wikileaks - What do you think?



## Saucisson (29 November 2010)

Crikey, I bet there's a few red faces around the world today!

I can't make my mind up whether this level of "leaking" really benfits anyone though?  It's isnt as though this guy's revealing a massive, illegal conspiracy or cover-up.  

Some secret's should probably stay that way, I'm sure a lot of businesses wouldn't want sensitive info published on the net either.  I actually feel a little bit sorry for Uncle Sam.

It has made for interesting reading though and I bet Vladmir Putin is fluffing his feathers  - I thought he came out of it quite well!


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## pelena (29 November 2010)

Saucisson said:



			Crikey, I bet there's a few red faces around the world today!

I can't make my mind up whether this level of "leaking" really benfits anyone though?  It's isnt as though this guy's revealing a massive, illegal conspiracy or cover-up.  

Some secret's should probably stay that way, I'm sure a lot of businesses wouldn't want sensitive info published on the net either.  I actually feel a little bit sorry for Uncle Sam.

It has made for interesting reading though and I bet Vladmir Putin is fluffing his feathers  - I thought he came out of it quite well!
		
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I'm more concerned about how easy it was for a fairly low ranking soldier to download so much sensitive information....


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## Lobelia_Overhill (29 November 2010)

I'm bitterly disappointed that it wasn't about Area 51, or the Stargate Program


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## Saucisson (29 November 2010)

pelena said:



			I'm more concerned about how easy it was for a fairly low ranking soldier to download so much sensitive information....
		
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I know!  When I read about him he didn't seem like the sort of chap that you'd want handling this type of info either.  




Lobelia_Overhill said:



			I'm bitterly disappointed that it wasn't about Area 51, or the Stargate Program 

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## lar (29 November 2010)

pelena said:



			I'm more concerned about how easy it was for a fairly low ranking soldier to download so much sensitive information....
		
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My thoughts exactly - I think all the outrage re the site publishing the leaks is a way of detracting attention as to how weak the security procedures must be for someone to be able to leak the information in the first place!


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## SusieT (29 November 2010)

I don't feel they should have been released. 
the guy is a Jackass imo, there's a reason many things are kept secret. He hasn't event o my knowledge censored it, simply released it and said 'tough luck' if it puts anyone in danger etc.
What is the point in releasing any of it? It is just confidential information, nothing earth shattering as far as I can see, simply taking credeibility away from confidential documents


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## Seth (29 November 2010)

Best comment is on the Guardian website

"Too funny.

"I think it's wonderful news that the world gets to see what America is really like. 

It's always been the Evil Empire, but has done an amazing cover-up with the right PR at the right time.

From now on, maybe the rest of the world will 'get real' about America and stop holding it up as the bastion of morals and values. The US has been and always will be run by some of the scummiest people on the planet. So, no, no surprises here"


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## Ignition (29 November 2010)

SusieT said:



			I don't feel they should have been released. 
the guy is a Jackass imo, there's a reason many things are kept secret. He hasn't event o my knowledge censored it, simply released it and said 'tough luck' if it puts anyone in danger etc.
What is the point in releasing any of it? It is just confidential information, nothing earth shattering as far as I can see, simply taking credeibility away from confidential documents
		
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That is not true. The documents were censored so that names of people who could be at risk where removed, such as Afghan civillians who spoke to the US and would therefore be at risk from punishment from the Taliban. 

As regards to 'what is the point' - the documents reveal plenty of law breaking done by the US Government, and informs all of us 'little people' what is really going on in the world. But if you'd rather stick your head in the sand and carry on reading a load of filtered crap 'unearthed' by the newspapers (i.e. deliberatly leaked by our government in a PR move) then good luck with that and I hope you have a lovely life in your own little world! 

People need to be interested in this, in politics and world relations, so that we actually get a say in it all - do you really trust the intentions and works of the US Government?? Apologies if my opinion offends anyone, but I really don't hold them in much regard at all!


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## Seth (29 November 2010)

SusieT yes they were censored to ensure the innocent parties won't face any danger.

Why would people not want to know about the inner workings of our governments - we're living in the world too afterall, not just the politicians and diplomats.


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## Seth (29 November 2010)

Ignition said:



			That is not true. The documents were censored so that names of people who could be at risk where removed, such as Afghan civillians who spoke to the US and would therefore be at risk from punishment from the Taliban. 

As regards to 'what is the point' - the documents reveal plenty of law breaking done by the US Government, and informs all of us 'little people' what is really going on in the world. But if you'd rather stick your head in the sand and carry on reading a load of filtered crap 'unearthed' by the newspapers (i.e. deliberatly leaked by our government in a PR move) then good luck with that and I hope you have a lovely life in your own little world! 

People need to be interested in this, in politics and world relations, so that we actually get a say in it all - do you really trust the intentions and works of the US Government?? Apologies if my opinion offends anyone, but I really don't hold them in much regard at all!
		
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I concur!


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## Saucisson (29 November 2010)

I must thank him for one thing though, the "voluptuous blonde Latvian" with Gadaffi *snigger*

My other favourite has been the US asking Belgium to take some Gauntanamo (sp) Bay prisoners as a "cheap" way of furthering their position within Europe.

Poor little Belgium, desperate to be in with the bog boys


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## perfect11s (29 November 2010)

I just think its  just the work of a lefty twit with time on his hands making mischief...  and supplying the  cretins at the loony left  new york times and its uk  counterpart  the  guardian..yet  more destructive  rubish to print....


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## SusieT (29 November 2010)

But I don't believe the inner workings of anything should be poked at unless it's really necessary.
I don't particuarly believe a lot of what diplomats/is said in the news, no more than I believe all that has been 'leaked'! 
It's not putting ones head in the sand to accept that some things should be confidential.
Do you not think that all governments bend/break the law some/a lot of the time? You can try to elect people who you think will do the right thing, and depend on them. They should be accountable for most of their actions in the public eye, but through a system, not just releasing it all to every tom dick and harry. Top secret actions should be kept as such.
Ok, so they were censored, but I'm guessing anyone with a brain could probably id some of the people they have referred to etc?
I wasn't aware anyone thought the USA was any mre moral than britain..or many other countries. It will not change the view of many patriotic Americans (and what's wrong with that-believing in your country that is..)
I agree with perfect11s, it's someone **** stirring for the sake of it. If you want to change things, run for government, etc. We do live in a democracy after all. As does the USA. I don't feel the need to be privy to any operational data currently in the world, and don't see why anyone feels they should-it's a nosey culture of today, and a hotbed of conspiracy theorists causing this.
(ps if that all didn't make sense, it's late, I'm tired and off to bed. If anyone would like confidential informmation on my last bathroom movements and conversations, I shall leak that at some point in the future )


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## Seth (3 December 2010)

SusieT said:



			But I don't believe the inner workings of anything should be poked at unless it's really necessary.
I don't particuarly believe a lot of what diplomats/is said in the news, no more than I believe all that has been 'leaked'! 
It's not putting ones head in the sand to accept that some things should be confidential.
Do you not think that all governments bend/break the law some/a lot of the time? You can try to elect people who you think will do the right thing, and depend on them. They should be accountable for most of their actions in the public eye, but through a system, not just releasing it all to every tom dick and harry. Top secret actions should be kept as such.
Ok, so they were censored, but I'm guessing anyone with a brain could probably id some of the people they have referred to etc?
I wasn't aware anyone thought the USA was any mre moral than britain..or many other countries. It will not change the view of many patriotic Americans (and what's wrong with that-believing in your country that is..)
I agree with perfect11s, it's someone **** stirring for the sake of it. If you want to change things, run for government, etc. We do live in a democracy after all. As does the USA. I don't feel the need to be privy to any operational data currently in the world, and don't see why anyone feels they should-it's a nosey culture of today, and a hotbed of conspiracy theorists causing this.
(ps if that all didn't make sense, it's late, I'm tired and off to bed. If anyone would like confidential informmation on my last bathroom movements and conversations, I shall leak that at some point in the future )
		
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So? People murder all the time, doesn't make it right!

As for the rest of it, you are clearly happy just being a follower and the Government's minion so this is all over your head. Think for a minute - politicians are just people too, why should they get to know everything and do things that affect all civillians and then keep them from us? Why should we just trot around living our unimportant lives (in the government's eyes) and let the arrogant bast*rds play God? This is is all good journalism and is fantastic for 'the people' if not for 'the man'. Think about it!!


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## Tinkerbee (3 December 2010)

I think it's all a bit laughable. The media are all "OH NOES!!!1! Wikileaks are destroying national security with their bad bad revelations of badness!!!" but um, I'm only aware because of the media...if they weren't reporting I certainly couldn't be arsed to check wikileaks for gossip...


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## 1stclassalan (3 December 2010)

I tend to view all "leaks" with great suspicion - as nothing really sensitive ever gets leaked without approval - what you are left with is relatively harmless stuff released to embarass competing departments or to add credibility to utter inventions.

My hackles also raise instantly when I see such leaks contain real names in the clear - this is never done in diplomatic or security circles where everyone has a code name - and sometimes a code for the codename just in case you're good at guessing. The same goes for officious looking papers naming Operations - kept them for bad B movies and the looney conspiracy folk.

Beware of anything with Top Secret on it - this term belongs in Bond films - the Brit spies only ever say "Secret" or "Most Secret" - much of the stuff yet released wouldn't even qualify for - "Confidential" as it's so mundane. The most secret secrets are in files marked "Eyes Only" ( don't get confused with Bond here - there's never been a "For Your" in front )  and have a subscription list on the cover - you are contravening the Official Secrets Act by picking it up if your name isn't on the list but there again, you won't ever get to see one if you aren't because they are kept in very secure places guarded by guys with guns. The Yanks have the same sorts of graded secrets all referred to as "Classified"


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## Saucisson (4 December 2010)

There doesn't seem to have been anything too damaging leaked, more embarrassing really.  It's the media's dream come true really isn't it?

I am sure that if anything vital was likely to be leaked that Obama would have been straight on the phone to Jack Bauer to "sort out" the source of the leak


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## Bryndu (4 December 2010)

The only thing that REALLY annoys me about the leaks is that if nobody had offered the guy money he would'nt have done it - no one has any backbone any more...sigh.
Bryndu


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## Slinkyunicorn (4 December 2010)

I think most of the stuff being leaked is just making a few Americans blush and feel uncomfortable as it is just showing the rest of the world what they think of them. 

TBH I find the level of hysteria in the US the most disturbing with senators and people calling for the execution of the guy who owns Wikipedia


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## Kokopelli (4 December 2010)

I don't get what the big deal is?


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## qwertyuiop (4 December 2010)

Governments cannot operate without secrets. Anyone who thinks that they should not, should  ask themselves whether they would want every email, text and letter they ever sent or received, their bank details, PIN numbers, etc. in the public domain.

The result of this will be more secrecy, not less, as government staff will no longer write things down.

The Chinese may have been dropping hints that they would consider dropping North Korea, but they will now back away from that position, so the poor starving people of NK will have another generation under their government. On behalf of them, I thank wikileaks...


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## SusannaF (4 December 2010)

I particularly enjoyed:

"Wikileak: Russia is Gangster State run on bribes and corruption"

Followed the next day by:

"Russia hosting World Cup!"

To be honest I think there's such a  massive volume of material that after a while it will cease to have much of an effect, but if it reveals corruption and the breaking of a nation's laws, then good. They were right to publicise those attacks on innocent civilians. That sort of thing has to be out in the open.
Look how much fun the Telegraph expenses furore was.  Accountability is all.


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## magicgirl (6 December 2010)

I would like to see the man behind Wikileaks justify his reasons for doing to to a roo full of parents and families of serving soldiers in Afghanistan and see their reactions.


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## JanetGeorge (6 December 2010)

SusieT said:



			It's not putting ones head in the sand to accept that some things should be confidential.
		
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Too true.  But the US is a bit barmy - there are about 2 million civil servants and others with the necessary clearance to access this stuff!   When you consider how many reasons any number of those employees could have reason to want to embarrass their employer, earn a few bob from the media, etc. etc. it's just crazy! 

The US Government would do FAR better to put the whole lot of this stuff on the internet - think of the extra employment that would create as companies, foreign governments etc. employed thousands of extra people to read it all and pick out key bits - or not.  If it was public it would be of NO interest! Because it's the worst kept secret in the world, it makes the news!


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## Hanno Verian (6 December 2010)

It drives me mad all the leaks..yes governments are inherantly overly secretive... That is the unfortunate result of petty beaurocrats full of their own importance, over classifying things for personal reasons..be it burying mistakes..or to inflate their own egos that what they do is vitally important. 

But the flip side of this is the supreme arrogance of an individual to take it on himself to release all this information, quite probably a large amount isn't that important, but there are going to be things there that hurt our nation, just because someone decides that something is harmless doesn't mean that it is. Revelations regarding military operations can only hurt, even something apparently insignificant can be used to target personnel, and if costs one life..thats one too many. 

Revelations can be used out of context, ok I know that its not relevant to wiki leaks, but the faked "abuse" photos that were proved to have been staged in the UK, caused a backlash in Iraq, that effected British troops on the ground and could easily have led to injury or death as Iraqis were stirred up by the images and it boiled over into violence.

Also think how the families of the dead British service personnel are feeling when American criticism of one aspect of the British contribution in Iraq or Afghanistan is slanted in the media to reflect a blanket criticism , when in reality it is one mans assessment of a specific incident or failing.

Personally I think were better off without it, and I wonder how some of these people sleep at night!


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## Saucisson (6 December 2010)

JanetGeorge said:



			The US Government would do FAR better to put the whole lot of this stuff on the internet - think of the extra employment that would create as companies, foreign governments etc. employed thousands of extra people to read it all and pick out key bits - or not.  If it was public it would be of NO interest! Because it's the worst kept secret in the world, it makes the news!
		
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I gather from previous posts that you are very much an exprienced media person yes? So you have a good idea of how the media works.  Thanks for giving us an insight into the bits and bolts ot media manipulation. 

I very much agree with this but I think the US government has already put this out in the form of "24" etc - making torture acceptable to the masses etc without releasing details.  There has been some embarressing things leaked that I don't think has really aided our Western cause at all.  





Hanno Verian said:



			But the flip side of this is the supreme arrogance of an individual to take it on himself to release all this information, quite probably a large amount isn't that important, but there are going to be things there that hurt our nation, just because someone decides that something is harmless doesn't mean that it is. Revelations regarding military operations can only hurt, even something apparently insignificant can be used to target personnel, and if costs one life..thats one too many. 

Revelations can be used out of context, ok I know that its not relevant to wiki leaks, but the faked "abuse" photos that were proved to have been staged in the UK, caused a backlash in Iraq, that effected British troops on the ground and could easily have led to injury or death as Iraqis were stirred up by the images and it boiled over into violence.
		
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Well I dunno, my OH has served in NATO "intelligence" D) for 10 years), he took one look at the leaks, cursed the media and declared that none of it was actually a revelation to either side (although he was not aware of Gaddaffi's "voluptuous blonde nurse").  

I do think that all sides knew what the content was but it is embarassing for the US to have it spelt out in black and white.

Can you imagine the Iranian diplomatic comments being splurged accross the Daily Mail?!?!?!

Actually, I agree with OH (for once), as he says - if you complain about the USA in charge, just imagine what it will be like with China at the helm........


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## JanetGeorge (7 December 2010)

Saucisson said:





I gather from previous posts that you are very much an exprienced media person yes? So you have a good idea of how the media works.  Thanks for giving us an insight into the bits and bolts ot media manipulation.
		
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  Just a bit - although thankfully now retired to breeding horses!  I still get a giggle at the idiot ways in which people who SHOULD know better get on the wrong side of the media though.


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## 1stclassalan (7 December 2010)

SHOCK! HORROR! 

I've just seen he latest Wiki revelation!!!

Anne Widecombe can't dance.


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## amandap (7 December 2010)

Seth said:



			Best comment is on the Guardian website

"Too funny.

"I think it's wonderful news that the world gets to see what America is really like. 

It's always been the Evil Empire, but has done an amazing cover-up with the right PR at the right time.

From now on, maybe the rest of the world will 'get real' about America and stop holding it up as the bastion of morals and values. The US has been and always will be run by some of the scummiest people on the planet. So, no, no surprises here"
		
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Us poor plebs have NO idea what goes on in any Government and it's 'services'. Way to go I say!


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## MagicMelon (7 December 2010)

lar said:



			My thoughts exactly - I think all the outrage re the site publishing the leaks is a way of detracting attention as to how weak the security procedures must be for someone to be able to leak the information in the first place!
		
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Agree with this. Someone out there will always leak info somehow, at the end of the day the government should be terribly embarassed!


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## Berpisc (7 December 2010)

Kokopelli said:









I don't get what the big deal is? 

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Excellent  Cheered up a grim day
Not convinced about the other leaks, is the rest of the world really that in awe of America?  Maybe I am jusy a hoary old cynic


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## Saucisson (7 December 2010)

Cripes, the Wikileaks founder has now been arrested on a rape charge?!?!  Well, they had to find something I suppose........cynical?


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## qwertyuiop (7 December 2010)

Saucisson said:



			Cripes, the Wikileaks founder has now been arrested on a rape charge?!?!  Well, they had to find something I suppose........cynical?
		
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If the "establishment" wanted to silence him, I think they would have found a more effective and less suspicious method than this.

This is hilarious:
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/...olice-at-the-top-of-some-stairs-201012073327/


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## Saucisson (7 December 2010)

qwertyuiop said:



			If the "establishment" wanted to silence him, I think they would have found a more effective and less suspicious method than this.

This is hilarious:
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/...olice-at-the-top-of-some-stairs-201012073327/

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## Seth (7 December 2010)

Saucisson said:



			Cripes, the Wikileaks founder has now been arrested on a rape charge?!?!  Well, they had to find something I suppose........cynical?
		
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Exactly - it's the perfect fake crime since the "rape victims" get assured anonymity. 

We need to fight against the authorities on this - do we want to live in a country like China, where they get spoon fed certain news and kept in the dark about the rest of the world??


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## amandap (7 December 2010)

Seth said:



			Exactly - it's the perfect fake crime since the "rape victims" get assured anonymity. 

We need to fight against the authorities on this - do we want to live in a country like China, where they get spoon fed certain news and kept in the dark about the rest of the world??
		
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True! I don't think we're that far from China when it comes to being spoon fed bunkum though!


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## qwertyuiop (7 December 2010)

Seth said:



			Exactly - it's the perfect fake crime since the "rape victims" get assured anonymity. 

We need to fight against the authorities on this - do we want to live in a country like China, where they get spoon fed certain news and kept in the dark about the rest of the world??
		
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In the West, you are free to express your opinion, however daft it may be. If you lived in China you would not be free to even express this opinion. Big difference!


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## 1stclassalan (8 December 2010)

amandap said:



			True! I don't think we're that far from China when it comes to being spoon fed bunkum though!

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How would you think they stop the 50,000 Chinese running resturants in England alone writing home?


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## luckyoldme (8 December 2010)

Is this a safe thread????????????????????
Im scared to comment i dont want the fbi digging in my wardrobe and finding someone elses skeletons and getting the blame for them!!
Or they might ring my bank and stop my cards.
 i think america is definately brilliant and i want to move there and get some counselling.
I loved the comment about releasing the information themselves.. so simple but so effective


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## Saucisson (8 December 2010)

luckyoldme said:



			Is this a safe thread????????????????????
		
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All I'm saying is you'd best check the biscuit tin for bugging devices


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## 1stclassalan (9 December 2010)

luckyoldme said:



			.......I loved the comment about releasing the information themselves.. so simple but so effective
		
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Ah, you may think that - but I couldn't possibly comment.


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