# What do you define as scope????



## charlimouse (6 April 2010)

I've just ventured into photo gallery, and there are some discussions as to what scope actually is in a horse. So I thought I would put the question to you CR peeps:

What do you define as scope in a horse?
Which well known horses would you describe as scopey?

For me, I would define a scopey horse as one that could jump a 1.20+ fence out of a balanced, powerful canter, without any need for changing pace and rhytmn (sp). The horse would not appear to make an awful lot of effort (obviously depending on the height of the fence, I have jet to see a horse win a puissance without looking like they are putting in alot of effort!).

I think a horse which demonstrates this ability would be Opposition Buzz (but I may be a bit biased on that front )


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## bigboyrocky (6 April 2010)

Was going to say opposition buzz!!!
Any the chap in my siggy  lol he was as scopey as they came


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## only_me (6 April 2010)

hmm, scope is generally to me how much clearance the horse makes over a fence, and makes it seem effortless at the same time. If the horse generally clears a fence with foot to spare, i would see that as scopey.

But scope imo is really just the horse's ability to jump 
My boy is scopey lol

The scopiest horse of them all though must be arco


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## Apercrumbie (6 April 2010)

Well for me, scopey is seeing and taking a good stride without umming and aaing (sp ) about it and clearing fences well.  Generally having a calm head about jumping and just taking everything in its stride (sorry!) often comes into it as well.  The horse has to have good leg action.


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## MegaBeast (7 April 2010)

Clearing fences with ease, the ability to still clear a fence from a dodgy stride because they've got that ability to stretch and make the distance.

However would say that a horse can be very scopey but wouldn't be able to jump round a big track.

I would disagree that scope can only come out of a balanced showjumping canter


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## TheMule (7 April 2010)

I think scope is the ability to jump a big fence (1.40ish for a 16hh horse)

I dont think clearing small jumps by a large amount is demonstrating scope, I call that carefulness.


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## FigJam (7 April 2010)

MegaBeast said:



			Clearing fences with ease, the ability to still clear a fence from a dodgy stride because they've got that ability to stretch and make the distance.
		
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I'd agree with this, being able to adjust their jump and clear a fence off a duff stride or lack of/too much impulsion would be what I term as scopey.  

Not necessarily giving fences extra height- I was always told scope was being able to judge exactly how high the fence was and give it enough, but not too much, room.  So a careful jumper that rarely has poles down but not because they're consistently jumping a foot higher than everything!


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## FigJam (7 April 2010)

PS- I guess this makes it hard to show in a photo!


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## charlimouse (7 April 2010)

I think TheMule has just hit on an important point, a horse can be careful and do well upto a point, but it doesn't mean it is scopey. A horse over jumping a x pole is not neccessarilly(sp) scopey. IMO carefulness and scope are 2 very different things, carefulness can take you so far, but there comes a point where the horse has to have scope aswell.


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## millitiger (7 April 2010)

i think scope is a combination of how big a fence the horse can jump and how clever it can be in approach/take off.

i don't agree that clearance over a fence is a measure of scope- i am far more impressed with a horse who jumps 4ft over a 3'9ft fence than one who jumps 4ft over a 2ft fence.


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## kerilli (7 April 2010)

it's power off the floor, imho. prob the scopiest i've ever seen was a mare Franke Sloothaak used to ride, San Patriagno Weihawei (sp?), his 'blue-eyed girl', wow that mare had ooodles of scope, she could have jumped a house. the grey mare that Ellen Whitaker rides has the same sort of scope imho. Scopiest eventer i've ever seen was Murphy Himself. he made 4* look small, not many do.
i agree it doesn't have a lot to do with clearance (until the fences get big, then it becomes impressive) but many horses just 'step a fence', jump 2'6" in exactly the same way as they jump 4'6", don't make you think Wow but they have plenty of scope there, they just don't show it in a fancy way.
I think you can feel scope, or maybe it's just certain style... when one comes up in front so well that it feels as if it's going to hit you in the chest.
I'm not sure about horses that grunt when they jump, is that an indication of lack of scope (if they're trying that hard, there isn't a lot left?) or not?
Op Buzz has lots of scope but he also has a very unorthodox style which makes his leaps look enormous.


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## LEC (7 April 2010)

Interesting as I had a quick peek in the gallery and completely disagreed that 99% of those were scopey. Good techinque and carefulness are very different. Scopey also goes hand in hand with a good athlete.


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## Firewell (7 April 2010)

I agree with above points. I also think scope also has to do with the consistency to which horses can jump big fences, jumping a one off fence big isnt the same as going consistently clear over big tracks. It also has to do with the ability to get one out of trouble!
Some of the scopiest horses iv'e seen dont appear to be very flashy jumpers but their jumping rounds are flawless, they can get over anything off any stride and can turn and jump on a dime. The best jumpers are also those imo who dont overjump. They can judge the height accuratly and dont waste any more effort than need be. They are best in the jump offs also!!


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## TGM (7 April 2010)

MegaBeast said:



			Clearing fences with ease, the ability to still clear a fence from a dodgy stride because they've got that ability to stretch and make the distance.
		
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 I agree with this as well.  My daughter's pony is regularly called 'scopey' by instructors, and I think part of it because she has the athletic ability to get herself out of trouble.  For example, when jumping something like a dog leg related distance, if she gets the striding wrong she can just stand off and fly over the second part, whereas less scopey ponies end up stopping, scrambling over or hitting the fence.

I really don't think you can accurately assess 'scopiness' from a still photo!


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## kerilli (7 April 2010)

I agree that you can't assess it from a photo (unless the fence is huge), it's more from watching the flow of the horse over the fences.
i think it's more about confidence and honesty than scope when a horse is willing and able to use its athleticism to jump a fence from just about anywhere - even the scopiest horse can lose its bottle, and non-scopey horses can manage pretty big courses and all sorts of questions as long as they have a lot of faith in their riders.


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## Weezy (7 April 2010)

I am with lec and disagree with most of the photos in the gallery regarding scopey horses.

For me, to say WOW, a horse has to be able to, for example, turn in front of a jump and jump a 1.30m off of one stride, without seemingly breaking rhythm or impulsion - you know the ones I mean, they land, turn, jump and it just seems like a piece of pee to them.  It is something in the spring, the technique and the focus of the horse that truly makes them scopey in my eyes.  For sure, I see some horses jumping and clearing 1.30m classes, but I wouldn't call them scopey even though they do not touch a pole.

A very good hunter should be scopey - you come to a hedge and just before take off realise there is a ditch and they piiiiing without so much as a blink or a bother - lovely


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## TGM (7 April 2010)

kerilli said:



			i think it's more about confidence and honesty than scope when a horse is willing and able to use its athleticism to jump a fence from just about anywhere
		
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 I agree to an extent - for example a scopey horse might be physically able to get itself out of trouble, but lack confidence, so will stop instead.  However, if a horse is not very athletic or scopey, then will be times when it is not physically able to get out of trouble, however confident or honest it is.




			even the scopiest horse can lose its bottle, and non-scopey horses can manage pretty big courses and all sorts of questions as long as they have a lot of faith in their riders.
		
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Agree - scope on its own is not enough, and confidence and honesty can make up for a lack of scope to some extent.  But a horse who has scope, confidence and honesty is surely going to consistently out-perform a horse who has confidence and honesty but lacks scope (at least at the higher levels).

Also, I think definitions of scope are going to vary according to the category of animal and the job it does - what is 'scopey' for a PC pony is going to be very different to what is defined as 'scopey' for a three day eventer!


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## LEC (7 April 2010)

The most times I say wow that is scopey is when the rider has completely cocked it up over a big fence and it just sorts itself out or it makes it look effortless. Miners Frolic never looks like he is trying yet Flint Curtis always looks like he is just about on his limit.


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## seabiscuit (7 April 2010)

Nearly every horse is able to clear a 1.35m pole, it doesnt mean that they are scopey. 

For me scope is being athletic enough to jump say a 1.35 m course and is able to sort itself out and go off any stride *without* looking like there was ever a near miss or an oopsie moment. A scopey horse has the balance and athlectism for a missed stride not to be an issue- it just keeps on jumping from whatever spot, finds it distances through doubles/trebles etc. They also do it with real ping off the floor and power.


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## ponygal (7 April 2010)

would you define him as having scope? Sorry this thread has got me all confused lol So i thought i would find a pic and ask. Please done be harsh on my baby i'm not saying he does have scope or doesnt just trying to clear things up in my head lol


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## BeckyX (7 April 2010)

an effortless jump, the pony i used to exersize was 14'2 he could clear 1'30m easy - as scopy as they came!


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## TarrSteps (7 April 2010)

Does anyone remember that free jumping video that did the rounds of YouTube etc?  It was a bay horse that just cantered out of the corner and LAUNCHED into the air. 

I would say the same a Weezy - a scopey horse just seems to spring into the air, never looking like it's struggling.  It's an amazing feeling, like the horse has jumped off a spring board.  But you can't always see it from a photo and it isn't about technique or carefulness.  Tomboy, the horses Rodrigo Pessoa rode at his first Olympics, was extremely scopey but had terrifying technique. 

And yes, many scopey horses don't impress over small jumps.  I'm leery of a horse with lots of miles that still seems unexpectedly careful but, to be fair, some horses just jump that way.


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## zefragile (7 April 2010)

Here is the video that TarrSteps mentioned.


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## Shortcut (7 April 2010)

I think scope is not just about how much your horse clears a fence by,  I think its about how much potential a horse has in his jump. I also think a horse can have a scopey trot or canter as in really covering the ground with ease and with lots of impulsion.


I don't know if i've made alot of sense though!


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## Daisychain (7 April 2010)

Its something you can feel, an amazing spring through the air, like a gazelle.

Very few Riding club type horses have it.

I have owned quite a few horses over the years, and can name about 3 with that feeling.


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## Weezy (7 April 2010)

Ponygal - from the photo alone, no, I wouldn't say your horse is scopey because he doesn't appear to be about to spring into the air IMO.  However, as most of us agree, you cannot tell it from a picture and in fairness it is only a small fence


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## kerilli (7 April 2010)

ponygal, he's got really promising technique, he's going to have a lovely bascule, it's just that it is really difficult to tell scope from a photo. certainly he looks as if he has plenty of jump and is putting himself out to clear that fence well!


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