# Very pregnant dog and very worried owner :(



## Patterdale (9 September 2013)

My little patterdale is due to have her puppies this week, she's the size of a blimp and I'm so worried there are either hundreds of puppies in there, of very big ones. She's HUGE. I've never seen an animal so pregnant - a friend of mine has a patt due the same day and hers is half the size. 
She's got an udder like a dairy cow too. 
I keep thinking 'today's the day!' But nothing happens 

Last night she was just crying and fussing and barely slept, and kept going away from her bed and trying to sleep in wierd places. I thought she'd have them but still nothing. 
She's had milk for about a week now, and she didnt want her food last night. 

She won't come in to her bed so I can keep an eye on her, she keeps sleeping in strange places around the farm and I don't know if I should leave her in an awkward place outside or make her come in??

She's got a lovely place in the shed that I made for her to have them but is totally uninterested in it 

What does everyone think? There's no discharge or anything. I'm just so worried about her. 

I've only had one litter before when one of the sheepdogs had pups, but she just fired them out a few days early then reared them pretty much completely alone, it was so easy. 

My terriers very small though and I'm just so worried. I'm not normally a worrier either!

Sorry for the long rambling post I'm just stressing and wish I knew more about it


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## Amymay (9 September 2013)

Maybe worth a quick buzz to your vet patterdale.


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## CorvusCorax (9 September 2013)

Please ring your vet, he or she will be better able to advise.

In the mean time, if the shed has a door, close the door. The last thing you want is puppies being born all over the place.

How many did she scan for?

ETA: If you are following her around checking where she  is, in a stressed fashion, you won't be helping her - curtail her movements and keep a watchful eye rather than being on top of her.


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## Sandstone1 (9 September 2013)

Take her to he vet asap.


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## Aru (9 September 2013)

Id bring her to your vet sooner rather than later...let them do the exam on her and make sure all is well.


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## Patterdale (9 September 2013)

I took her to the vet on Saturday, who was a bit patronising actually and said 'oh of course she looks fed up, she's pregnant blah blah blah.' 
Our vets are not the best 

He said not to stress her by taking her back (it's an hour trip) unless there is a green or bloody discharge. 
I asked if he could do an x ray to see how big the pups heads were in relation to her pelvis but he said people don't do that? I'm sure I've heard of it though??

I left the door open and she's come in and is in her bed now, but not sleeping and quite restless. 

I thought I would keep an eye on her, and if no pups or discharge by tomorrow I'd get a call out from the vet first thing. What do people think about that?

The money doesn't matter, I just don't want to stress her by a long car journey if she's just nesting. 

Oh and there were at least 5 on the scan, I scanned her myself but whenever I've scanned dogs there are always a few more when they're actually born, it's hard to accurately count in a dog. 
I thought if she settles I might scan her again and see if there's anything huge looking in there, but they will probably be too big to be able to see properly now. 


Oh and btw, I realise this is our second litter in a year (different dogs!) but I am NOT a puppy farmer  the other dog was OHs and this is my pet


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## Amymay (9 September 2013)

Bless her.  Keep us posted Patterdale xx


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## CorvusCorax (9 September 2013)

Do you know anything about the sire, is he known for throwing big litters or large puppies/large heads etc. 
Even if there is one particularly large pup in there it could prevent the easy delivery of the others. If there are complications you will need the vet to be on standby.


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## Patterdale (9 September 2013)

Ps - when I took her to the surgery, the first vet very smilingly said, 'this'll be SO interesting for me, i haven't actually had any practical experience of whelping yet.'

After scooping my jaw off the ground, I politely requested a different vet!


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## CorvusCorax (9 September 2013)

Maybe nothing and apologies if I am confusing you with a different poster but did she once come off a moving vehicle? Did she break anything at that time, or might she have tweaked something, which might make bearing the extra weight a bit annoying for her?


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## Aru (9 September 2013)

Go to a different vet.Or at least ring a different vet 
 Xrays to check size are done occasionally, especially on small dogs who are at risk of needing a csection if the pups heads are to large for the pelvis.

I suspect she is just nesting and uncomfortable and taking things in her own time...crying restlessness even vomiting can be normal as a bitch approaches pupping..but given that you are worried about her size I personally would want an exam done to make sure there is not a pup stuck in the pelvis stopping her from progressing normally.Usually you would still see some discharge ...green red or brown if pupping has started but occasionally its not there. 

I would also be confining her to wherever you want her to pup and leave her to only checking on her occaionally so she can settle.She may try to take off and chose a very awkward place to pup where it would be hard to keep an eye on her otherwise


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## Patterdale (9 September 2013)

CaveCanem said:



			Maybe nothing and apologies if I am confusing you with a different poster but did she once come off a moving vehicle? Did she break anything at that time, or might she have tweaked something, which might make bearing the extra weight a bit annoying for her?
		
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Yes, that was her! It was a quad onto grass though, and she just rolled and carried on running with never a lame step, so I think she was ok. She's had her back legs x rayed since then after another injury, and nothing showed up though


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## CorvusCorax (9 September 2013)

Ah right, I had tractor in my head for some reason!! Apologies.


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## twiggy2 (9 September 2013)

when is her due day?


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## Patterdale (9 September 2013)

CaveCanem said:



			Ah right, I had tractor in my head for some reason!! Apologies.
		
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The post was prompted by her falling down the tractor steps, catching a back leg and needing a small op to fix it 
I mentioned some of her other tumbles to illustrate how accident prone she is, and the thread quickly descended into me being accused of being a neglectful owner and unfit mother (I was preggo at the time and one delightful poster suggested social services might be interested that I was careless enough to let my dog fall over  then some sane people arrived I think! 
It was classic HHO at its finest! 



twiggy2 said:



			when is her due day?
		
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It's either tomorrow or Thursday. The diary it was written in was lost and I stupidly didnt put it anywhere else, but it's definitely this week. 



Aru said:



			I would also be confining her to wherever you want her to pup and leave her to only checking on her occaionally so she can settle.She may try to take off and chose a very awkward place to pup where it would be hard to keep an eye on her otherwise
		
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I've done this now - OH said I should just leave her but there are 4 other dogs milling around and any number of dirty holes she likes to nap in so I think she just needed to be somewhere quiet and safe. I can check her easily now too. 

Thanks so much for all the comments, ill try and put some pics up


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## RutlandH2O (9 September 2013)

Have you been taking her temperature daily for the past 2 weeks? Dogs normally have a temperature reading of about 38.8 - 39 C. When her temperature drops to 37 or below, whelping should occur within 12 hours. You might want to take her temperature as soon as possible, because she is showing all the other signs of imminent whelping. I would also suggest you find a more experienced and competent vet. Is there anyone closer to you?


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## CorvusCorax (9 September 2013)

Yes, I remember the post!!

What about the sire? Or is he a maiden also? It might be nothing but if you know that he is prone to throwing larger litters or larger pups, forewarned is forearmed.


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## Patterdale (9 September 2013)

RutlandH2O said:



			Have you been taking her temperature daily for the past 2 weeks? Dogs normally have a temperature reading of about 38.8 - 39 C. When her temperature drops to 37 or below, whelping should occur within 12 hours. You might want to take her temperature as soon as possible, because she is showing all the other signs of imminent whelping. I would also suggest you find a more experienced and competent vet. Is there anyone closer to you?
		
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I haven't - I knew nothing about it?  Ill start now, will have to get a thermometer though. 
There are no nearer vets. We are very remote.


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## Patterdale (9 September 2013)

CaveCanem said:



			Yes, I remember the post!!

What about the sire? Or is he a maiden also? It might be nothing but if you know that he is prone to throwing larger litters or larger pups, forewarned is forearmed.
		
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The sure is a similar size to her and throws normal litters, however there's a chance that another, bigger dog caught her (same breed etc just bigger) but they were tied for less than a minute so I was hoping it wouldn't have worked. I didn't find out it had happened until it was too late.


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## Patterdale (9 September 2013)

The bigger one wasn't worryingly enormous though, just bigger.


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## CorvusCorax (9 September 2013)

The dog itself doesn't have to be huge to throw big litters or big puppies, it can just come with the genes. It's probably not a factor, just something to consider.

Depending on how you are registering them or selling them it might be wise to be upfront about the fact that she tied with two males - I'd be pee'd off if I thought I was buying the offspring of one male, when it could easily be a completely different male with different strengths/weaknesses/character etc.


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## MurphysMinder (9 September 2013)

Dare I say it but to some extent I agree with the vet, she is going to be feeling uncomfortable carrying a large litter close to her due date.    And its also not that unusual for a vet to not have had experience of a normal whelping, they tend to only see a bitch if things are going wrong.
I would agree re confining her to the space you want her to whelp in, and certainly don't leave her unsupervised.  My mum had a GSD bitch disappear and have her first few pups in a hole she had dug on the bank of a stream .  If you can scan her yourself to check the position of the pups then great, with all due respect to vets sheep scanners, or better still people who regularly scan bitches tend to be more accurate than vets.
Whilst it may be too late for the whelping, I recommend you get a copy of "The Book of the Bitch", it is excellent and the bible of most dog breeders, it will certainly help you through the puppy rearing stage.
If she starts showing any sign of being in labour , e.g. panting really heavily, digging her bed and particularly having contractions, and nothing happens for an hour or two or as previously mentioned , if there is any green or dark discharge, then I would contact your vet, but for now it may just be a waiting game.
I actually have never taken temperatures pre whelping, but I know a lot of breeders swear by it, but it can just be something else to stress the bitch.    Like people all bitches are different, some go off their food others eat normally.  When Evie had her pups she was very fussy all day but wolfed down her tea so I thought nothing would happen for a while, the first pup was born a couple of hours later!

ETS.  Have just seen your post about the double mating, when did the second mating happen, if it was a few days later it is possible she could have held to that one and so she is not due just yet.   Bitches can conceive to both males, so you may get a split litter,  in fact the KC have just sanctioned this as it is thought to be a good way of bringing more lines into rare breeds.  Obviously all pups and parents have to be DNA tested so the parentage can be confirmed.


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## Patterdale (9 September 2013)

Can't register patterdales but ill be very upfront about the 2 possible matings. I think it will be v clear if there is a mixed litter but time will tell!


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## Superhot (9 September 2013)

When my bitch was due with her second litter and was showing all the birthing signs, I got extremely concerned when nothing happened.  I rang my vet and was told not to panic, she could go over by days!!!!  After a few days of nothing happening and my gut instinct telling me she needed help, I drove her the 15 miles to the vet, who immediately took her in and gave her a Caesarean. Apparently she had inertia.  Pushing in labour but nothing happening. Thankfully all was well and she had 8 healthy pups, but if I'm,d listened


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## Superhot (9 September 2013)

Oops sorry, don't know what went wrong there. Just wanted to say if I'd listened to my vet over the phone and waited 5 days, it could have been a very different story...


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## Spring Feather (9 September 2013)

I was helping my friend whelp her English Mastiff pups last week and we had a bit of a 'what to do' moment.  One pup came out fine and then it seemed like the bitch totally stopped.  After 5 hours went by and after her speaking to vets on the phone we both decided to take the bitch in, if only just to have xrays taken.  The fear was that one pup may have been stuck in the birthing canal.  Anyhow, the xrays showed another 7 pups, my friend and I went back into the room to wait for the vet and the bitch decided to give birth to the second one.  The pup came out bottom first but she delivered it fine.  The subsequent couple of pups also came out backwards with no problems, the rest delivered nose first.  We figured that the bitch was just a slow deliverer.

My point is, keep your vet on hand (or get a new vet pdq if you don't trust your present vet) and don't worry about phoning them for any reason.  My own dog vets ask you not to bring whelping bitches into the clinic, they will come out to you (which I prefer tbh) and if necessary xray the bitch to see what is going on.  

Oh and also, the vet clinic I went to with my friend, no-one there had seen puppies being born.  I think they tend to just see the bitches pre-whelping or after whelping if there has been a problem.


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## Patterdale (9 September 2013)

It's started, first water bag is out, spoken to the vet who says if no puppy within an hour to take her in. 
She's quite panicked but looks normal.


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## Fools Motto (9 September 2013)

We need a live cam feed.. one pup born every ????


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## kirstys 1 (9 September 2013)

Good luck - and keep us posted!


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## stencilface (9 September 2013)

Exciting news - good luck both of you!


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## Spring Feather (9 September 2013)

Good luck!


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## Amymay (9 September 2013)

Good luck!!!


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## Patterdale (9 September 2013)

One puppy born - bitch, image of the mother. 
It was breech, upside down and totally stuck. Vet an hour away almost so I pulled it myself. There was only a tail and one black leg and the tail broke but life or death unfortunately so at least she's here. Thought it would be dead but she's come round and is trying to suck now. 
Very stressful! If I'd waited until I'd got to the vet I don't think it would have lived. So hard to know what to do. 

Waiting for puppy 2 now.


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## Fools Motto (9 September 2013)

Poor pup, but well done, hope the others come easily.


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## RutlandH2O (9 September 2013)

Depending on where the tail broke, you can have it docked...the pup will be okay. 

Good luck!


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## Aru (9 September 2013)

Hope all is going well patterdale! Good luck.


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## Patterdale (9 September 2013)

RutlandH2O said:



			Depending on where the tail broke, you can have it docked...the pup will be okay. 

Good luck!
		
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It's off. I wasn't planning to dock them but I had to be a bit firm to get it out and it came off. Pretty gruesome! But it didnt seem to notice, I think I was more bothered! But at least it survived. It only lost the tip 

There are 6 now, 4 girls and a boy, all black or black and tan and very sweet! I think there are more to come though, poor dog. 

If there are quite a few, is it common to supplement the milk?


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## Spring Feather (9 September 2013)

Patterdale said:



			It's off. I wasn't planning to dock them but I had to be a bit firm to get it out and it came off. Pretty gruesome! But it didnt seem to notice, I think I was more bothered! But at least it survived. It only lost the tip 

There are 6 now, 4 girls and a boy, all black or black and tan and very sweet! I think there are more to come though, poor dog. 

If there are quite a few, is it common to supplement the milk?
		
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Sounds like everything is progressing well now.  Sometimes you have to supplement for the first day if the bitch isn't in full production mode but usually she will keep up with them after the first day or two.  We have supplementary milk on-hand just in case though.


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## Love (9 September 2013)

How's things going Patterdale?


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## Amymay (10 September 2013)

All good according to FB.


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## MurphysMinder (10 September 2013)

Thanks amymay, thats good to know.  Look forward to seeing pictures Patterdale


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## Patterdale (10 September 2013)

Successful night!  

7 puppies, 5 bitches and 2 dogs, all seem healthy and the bitch loves them 
She's being a bit difficult and sleeping in a little ball which makes it hard for them to get in to suck but hopefully she'll relax as time goes on. Going to put them out now but I think I'll dig out a lamp as they are such little things. 
OH is laughing at me for thinking about putting a lamp on terrier pups, who he says would survive in a snowy landfill but I'd rather they had the option!
Am I being soft?


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## Amymay (10 September 2013)

Patterdale said:



			OH is laughing at me for thinking about putting a lamp on terrier pups, who he says would survive in a snowy landfill but I'd rather they had the option!
Am I being soft?
		
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NO!!!

I wouldn't even be putting them out.......


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## misterjinglejay (10 September 2013)

No, you are not being soft, IMO - any help you can give the little things. Well done you, and mummy patterdale!


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## loopiesteff (10 September 2013)

Piccies! What are the plans for the puppies? I love puppies, especially terrier puppies!!! Glad it all went well in the end


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## Patterdale (10 September 2013)

amymay said:



			NO!!!

I wouldn't even be putting them out.......
		
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Glad to see its not just me! Don't worry, they're having the lamp 
They have to go out but they're in the horse trailer, which is rubber matted and walled, all the doors shut and parked in a shed. It's also got a carpet on the floor, and a big box full of bedding so they are very snug! And the lamp!

I'm just so relieved she's had them safely 

I've got a few homes lined up and I'm keeping at least one, maybe 2. She's quite a popular little dog as she's very well behaved sweet so I suspect they will all go locally/to family. 
Off go the butchers now for some mince for her


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## Amymay (10 September 2013)

I really, really, really want one.  But OH says no! Damn him.


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## MurphysMinder (10 September 2013)

You're not being soft with a lamp , newborn pups get chilled very easily, specially if mum is not letting them lie against her all the time, though I'm sure she will soon relax.  If she ate a few after births I wouldn't give her too much meat for a day or so,  they can upset their tums.  Lots of pics pls.


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## RutlandH2O (10 September 2013)

PLEASE make sure those pups are kept warm...newborns are unable to regulate their body temperature, and, as MM has just posted, they can get chilled very easily. So no snowy landfills or cold sheds, please!

How is the pup which lost part of its tail? Is mum licking it? Are you disinfecting the pups' navels? If so, and you should, put some disinfectant on that pup's tail wound, as well.

Now, for the good stuff, piccies, please...


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## lexiedhb (10 September 2013)

Whilst I am very glad mummy had her pups just fine, and that they are snug as ickle bugs in rugs

THIS THREAD IS USELESS WITHOUT PICS!!!!


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## Jesstickle (10 September 2013)

lexiedhb said:



			Whilst I am very glad mummy had her pups just fine, and that they are snug as ickle bugs in rugs

THIS THREAD IS USELESS WITHOUT PICS!!!!



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Yeah exactly. Come on Patts, get yer arse in gear :mad3: :tongue3:


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## GrumpyHero (12 September 2013)

I need pictures!!!! I love patterdale puppies :-(


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