# Fox attacks baby



## Lynds (7 June 2010)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jun/06/fox-attack-baby-twins-sisters

Can't guess what side of the fence the guardian sits on...! How many lambs and 9 month old children would be 'threatening' the fox? Interesting!!


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## Tormenta (7 June 2010)

Would there have been something wrong with the fox? I live rurally and they tend to keep well away from humans, in fact it is quite difficult to see them on a regular basis.  Would people feeding an urban fox encourage it to be bolder and enter someone else's house?

However, my thoughts to the family concerned and I hope that the little girls make a swift recovery.


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## JanetGeorge (7 June 2010)

Tormenta said:



			Would there have been something wrong with the fox? I live rurally and they tend to keep well away from humans, in fact it is quite difficult to see them on a regular basis.  Would people feeding an urban fox encourage it to be bolder and enter someone else's house?
		
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The fox's behaviour is absolutely 'normal'.  The fox is an opportunistic predator - he was attrcted into the house by an open door and the smell of food (people really SHOULD lock up their children better!)

He found some sleeping (non-threatening) pieces of 'meat' and decided to have a meal!

I remember years ago a fox attacked a calving cow - even the Telegraph wouldn't run the story until they had chapter & verse, vet report, a signed statement from the farm worker who disturbed the fox, pictures etc. etc. for fear of being accused of running 'propaganda'.  Even then they didn't run any pics as it might have put readers off their breakfast!!

And of COURSE feeding urban foxes makes them tamer - they see people as a sign of food availability rather than a threat!  One of the benefits of hunting from a farmer's point of view is that it reminds foxes to be wary around the smell of dogs (farmyards, lambing fields etc.)  A fox can't differentiate between the smell of the hound that came within an inch of his brush last week and the smell of a sheepdog around lambing ewes!


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## Hels_Bells (7 June 2010)

Janet - I quite agree.  I live in rural North Yorkshire and rarely see a fox, they keep a very low profile.  However, if you were to spend a week in a London suburb you would see a very different type of fox.  I used to see foxes pretty much every day, sometimes several times, in broad daylight any time of day or night... People there have no livestock so they don't see or understand the damage a fox can do.  They are totally tolerated, other than the intermittent inconvenience of them knocking a bin over people just accept them.  They literally have no idea how dangerous they can be and they have been allowed to swell to vast numbers.  I probably saw more foxes in London than I see rabbits in rural north yorkshire.  It's tragic that this pig headed ignorance and "foxes are harmless" approach by certain faculties has led to this happening.  If they had listened and understood the approach of rural people to foxes they would have not allowed numbers to swell like this and this terrible tragedy may not have occurred.


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## thinlizzy (7 June 2010)

How awful for all concerned !Rural foxes are a differant breed to suburban foxes the latter being more used to people and living alongside them this is so awful and in the family house deepest sympathy to all concerned ,if one can do it though ?


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## Kat (7 June 2010)

Tormenta said:



			Would there have been something wrong with the fox? I live rurally and they tend to keep well away from humans, in fact it is quite difficult to see them on a regular basis.  Would people feeding an urban fox encourage it to be bolder and enter someone else's house?

However, my thoughts to the family concerned and I hope that the little girls make a swift recovery.
		
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There is one near where my sister lives that some wheelchair bound old boy has trained to do tricks for food.  Sits and begs like a little lap dog, the old guy should really get himself a poodle instead 

Urban foxes are really bold, in the suburbs where my family live there are loads of very brave foxes that are not scared of people or dogs. I saw one yesterday strolling down the pavement at 4pm bold as brass.


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## guccigivi2001 (7 June 2010)

no sign on scratchline yet? my thoughts are with the family, those poor kiddies


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## rosie fronfelen (7 June 2010)

guccigivi2001 said:



			no sign on scratchline yet? my thoughts are with the family, those poor kiddies 

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oh please, dont tempt him out!!!


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## rosie fronfelen (7 June 2010)

we had a vixen hollering her head off last night, under our bedroom window- probably the same bitch that had one of my cherished chooks the other afternoon!!


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## HarrietLong (7 June 2010)

They are wild animals - predators. Why was the back door open during the night anyway? The fox is purely trying to survive.

Also think it is disgusting that it was then destroyed


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## MotherOfChickens (7 June 2010)

anyone else think that it's a bit unlikely?


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## sykokat (7 June 2010)

Harrietlong- why do you think its so awful that it was destroyed??? 
If it were one of your babies what would you want?? Also, they are urban foxes that have become alot braver around humans because fluffy bunny huggers think they are cute and start feeding them. Like you say, they are wild animals and belong in the wild, not in cities and towns. But, because of the ban/restrictions there are now too many of them and they seek food and territory else where. Thus bringing them, unfortunately, into close contact with humans. This is not natural and in no way be encouraged. They do however, need to be managed in the same way as deer etc.
Also, if a dog were to have attacked these babies,what would have been the outcome Harrietlong, a biscuit??? I DON'T THINK SO!!!


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## spaniel (7 June 2010)

Harriet if it were a rat that had chewed someones child would it bother you if that was killed???


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## HarrietLong (7 June 2010)

Dogs aren't wild - so that is a totally different matter, and to be honest down to an irresponsible owner.

I totally agree foxes shouldn't be fed - not at all condonning that! However, if you were starving and you were offered food would you say no?? Hence over the years they have moved into rural areas. But it is humans faults rather than the foxes - so in theory humans asked for the problems they now face.

Why was a door open at night anyway!! Irresponsible parents - any intruder could have got in and abducted the children!


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## sykokat (7 June 2010)

Its because of the attitude of these bunny huggers that the foxes are now in this predicament. They have messed about with rural management and now its turned into something nasty. But as usual, they will have all the excuses/reasons under the sun as to why the fox isn't to blame etc. No, the fox isn't to blame but people who do not understand the rural scene etc, are responsible.


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## beanie_boo (7 June 2010)

you say its the fault of dog owners that they attack children
we own a dobermann who is incredibly noise sensitive and we have to be extremely careful with her around children, yet she is very well trained!!! the dogs that attcked acted on instinct, they are 9 times out of 10 a guarding breed who react to noise, it takes a split second for them to attack, you could literally look at someone or blink.
just goes to show that the "murdering country folk" had the right ideas about how foxes should be treated, maybe they should reconsider the ban since their where never any problems before it ..... but as usual, they'll set a few traps and chuck them back to the countryside leaving others to deal with a problem where the only successfull method has been banned


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## Capriole (7 June 2010)

the particular article i read said the fox came in through a window, not an open back door, surely nobody is suggesting people should have locked and barred windows to deter possible fox attacks?


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## spaniel (7 June 2010)

According to the BBC news just now it came in through an open door.  I know I shouldnt laugh but I did chuckle when it was suggested by the police that folks should keep their doors shut and not feed urban foxes.

How many years have we been listening to urban folk bleating on about how lovely the fluffy little angels are and how they want to attract them into their gardens....now they are the cause of locked doors!!


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## Capriole (7 June 2010)

the article i read earlier definately said window, just read another and it says door, and another says 'Detectives are investigating whether the animals entered the house through an open window or door'

but however it got in (or they, one article mentioned two) no one should have to keep their doors and windows locked when they are sat in the house minding their own business. im amazed actually att the number of people making excuses for foxes today, if it had been a dog people would be on about banning the breed etc., like they do every time a rotty, etc. bites someone. whys it different if its a fox?


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## The Dunner (7 June 2010)

I hope some of the three hugging antis or people who say we are scum that hunt this VERMIN see this,

When an area is over populated by foxs they have a food shortage,it isnt as easy get when numbers have doubled,especially now cubs are running about.

Again it proves that the hunting ban is the height of stupidity,weather it was baby girls or a hen house the fox doesnt care,albeit this is defanitly a crazy and rare thing to have happened its obvious the fox population is growing,the sorry thing is the wrong fox's will be culled.


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## MotherOfChickens (7 June 2010)

I'm not anti-hunting or a bunny hugger. just think the whole thing is unlikely.


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## joe_carby (7 June 2010)

hmmmm id love to say i told you so, just sorry it had to be at the expense of  two kids being bitten. 

just wait the new story will be that it wasnt a fox the twins were actually teething and bit each other.


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## Ranyhyn (7 June 2010)

There's an advertisement for not leaving your door wide open.....
ETA: its pretty much common sense in Britain, you don't leave your first floor doors/windows open with your sleeping chilren inside.  IMHO it could just be good LUCK it was a fox and not a child abducter.

No, you shouldn't HAVE to lock your house up properly at night, but one would think its pretty common sense to do so.


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## Sparkles (7 June 2010)

In a way it's a bit ironic...considering the arguement from the clueless-city anti's that go on about how farmers should just fence the livestock in better to stop attacks....

Ho hum....


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## rosie fronfelen (7 June 2010)

HarrietLong said:



			They are wild animals - predators. Why was the back door open during the night anyway? The fox is purely trying to survive.

Also think it is disgusting that it was then destroyed
		
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sorry to say,it was the kindest thing to do to put it down. no other choice- to pick it up and dump it in the countryside is NOT an option as these are boen and bred in an urban area and not used to surviving and living out in the sticks.It would more than likely starvefrom not having  a dustbin to raid or some fluffy bunny to put food out for it, also it would likely contract mange which is a hideous thing for a fox to catch and very painful for it.


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## Sleighfarer (7 June 2010)

Tormenta said:



			Would there have been something wrong with the fox? I live rurally and they tend to keep well away from humans, in fact it is quite difficult to see them on a regular basis.  Would people feeding an urban fox encourage it to be bolder and enter someone else's house?

However, my thoughts to the family concerned and I hope that the little girls make a swift recovery.
		
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Urban foxes are certainly very different creatures. They are very bold and march about the streets in broad daylight - we even have one who has a snooze on the railway platform in the afternoon (though he does move if anybody gets *too* close). 

I don't buy the idea that there are armies of people feeding them; I've lived in London for 22 years and I don't know anybody who would do that - or who would try to entice them into the garden (who wants a lawn covered in fox s**t?).

They are tolerated because on the whole they don't do much harm and it's cheaper just to let them be (the councils are too taken up with the cockroach and rat problem - especially in Hackney).

Foxes live in the city because it is convenient. Why bother exerting yourself breaking into the hen house when you can stroll down to the station and wait for the drunken commuters to appear, dropping their Kentucky Fried Chicken?


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## CrazyMare (7 June 2010)

They are wild animals - predators. Why was the back door open during the night anyway? The fox is purely trying to survive.
		
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LOL - Are you saying you never stay up later than your children (ifyou have them), with the windows/doors open in this hot weather we have had, trying to let the cool night air in?

It is a shame this has happened, and it shouldn't have, but foxes are becoming a real problem in many areas - as a student in Leeds I often saw foxes ripping at binbags left out by student households (Not mine I must add!)


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## Sparkles (7 June 2010)

What about the killer squirrel community though 

http://www.metro.co.uk/weird/18368-killer-squirrel-takes-on-the-world


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## Kellys Heroes (7 June 2010)

I personally agree with a few people in this thread...
I believe that the foxes behaviour was completely normal - it was, after all, a wild animal searching for its food (I supposed this could be likened to us going to Tescos or Asda!) Urban foxes are being enticed further and further into our cities, becoming bolder as people are leaving scraps out for them (which agreed, is wrong they are meant to forage their own food). 
I agree with the fox being put down however sad it is (at the end of the day, they are beautiful creatures) - it would not have been rehabilitated safely into the wild and survived, but to keep it alive around the same area would have caused chaos!
Wishing a speedy recovery to the babies and find a different way of ventilation!


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## harkback (7 June 2010)

HarrietLong said:



			Dogs aren't wild -
!
		
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Ever heard of feral dog packs?  We have them in the UK believe it or not.  Aside from feral dogs, Pariah dogs are a recognised sub species a variations are found in several countries- India, USA, Australasia.


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## thinlizzy (7 June 2010)

foxes come out  anytime dosnt have to be midnight, or one oclock in the morning, i see them , quite a lot when i hack over fields during the day-big fat ones and i live very close to a citycentre and they dont care about me or my horse and they are quite big !
Its just really sad and upsetting dont forget two innocent babies are casulties of this ,harrietlong,can i ask you what would you do if this was your twin babies ?Keep it as a pet ?


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## joe_carby (7 June 2010)

harkback said:



			Ever heard of feral dog packs?  We have them in the UK believe it or not.  Aside from feral dogs, Pariah dogs are a recognised sub species a variations are found in several countries- India, USA, Australasia.
		
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a couple more

wild african hunting dogs

and dogs are only decendants of wolves


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## JenHunt (7 June 2010)

Binky01 said:



			What about the killer squirrel community though 

http://www.metro.co.uk/weird/18368-killer-squirrel-takes-on-the-world

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oh definitely, and the Jedi Squirrels are the worst! 
http://foreignerinformosa.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/06/11/jedi_squirrels.jpg


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## Sparkles (7 June 2010)

Oh my....I'm now sat here in a fit of giggle at the Jedi Squirrels....


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## Tormenta (7 June 2010)

Thanks for replying to those who answered me.

I am so used to hearing the odd one and rarely seeing them, the times I have they have took off at speed. I suppose I found this fox's behaviour abnormal in my own experience in that it was so bold which is why I thought there may have been something wrong, injury, old age etc.  I didn't mean to sound ignorant, I just hardly ever see them


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## Mike007 (7 June 2010)

Just thank god we havn,t got Rabies in this country.....yet.          TB is endemic in not just Badgers,but even the wild boar,and feral pgs are now carrying it.Yet the Bunnyhuggers protest at culling.


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## Groom42 (7 June 2010)

I suppose if the bloody foxes looked more like rats, and less like the things that curl up on your hearthrugs, people would be less "bunny huggy" about them.


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## harkback (8 June 2010)

Mike007 said:



			Just thank god we havn,t got Rabies in this country.....yet.          TB is endemic in not just Badgers,but even the wild boar,and feral pgs are now carrying it.Yet the Bunnyhuggers protest at culling.
		
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Well if the EU dictators have their way by 2012 we may be open to rabies if they make the UK comply with most mainland European countries and not allow the pets passport entry into the UK and Ireland have rabies vaccination as compulsory.


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## Laur (8 June 2010)

I am a forensic science student and one of my modules this year was bite mark analysis.  We were shown a photograph of a toddler who was bitten by a rat while he was sleeping in his cot and the injuries to his face were awful.  It is so important to be vigilant with vermin control as these attacks do happen all the time (and in most cases a bite mark analyst will be called in to confirm the injuries were indeed caused by a rat/fox etc and not by a person).  In several cases similar injuries have occured by family pets escaping from the cages (ferrets, rats, gerbils etc).
It is worrying though to think they had left the door open, the children could have been abducted (thinking back to the McCann case).  Many people who live in the city are oblvious to the fact that there are foxes about, they think they only live in the country.  I think that families view on fox hunting may have changed after this horrible situation!


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## endymion (9 June 2010)

Laur said:



			I am a forensic science student and one of my modules this year was bite mark analysis.  We were shown a photograph of a toddler who was bitten by a rat while he was sleeping in his cot and the injuries to his face were awful.  It is so important to be vigilant with vermin control as these attacks do happen all the time (and in most cases a bite mark analyst will be called in to confirm the injuries were indeed caused by a rat/fox etc and not by a person).  In several cases similar injuries have occured by family pets escaping from the cages (ferrets, rats, gerbils etc).
It is worrying though to think they had left the door open, the children could have been abducted (thinking back to the McCann case).  Many people who live in the city are oblvious to the fact that there are foxes about, they think they only live in the country.  I think that families view on fox hunting may have changed after this horrible situation!
		
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Do you think we should kill every animals that's dangerous to humans then? 

I think most Londoners know about urban foxes, they are very common.


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## endymion (9 June 2010)

How many children are savaged by dogs every year? Don't know why everyone is going hysterical over a very rare (but very sad) incident with a fox! 

Perhaps we should get rid of all dogs!


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## Sparkles (9 June 2010)

TBH...I can't really see a hunt going round London highstreets and surburbia 

Lawn hopping anyone?


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## Kat (9 June 2010)

Could be fun.......... jumping the privet hedges, garden benches, waterfeatures and play equipment. Would be a nice varied days hunting!


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## Sparkles (9 June 2010)

Haha yeah XD 

And down the backstreets dodging gangs and jumping passed out people XD


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## endymion (9 June 2010)

Binky01 said:



			Haha yeah XD 

And down the backstreets dodging gangs and jumping passed out people XD
		
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That's terrible stereotyping - Not all of us are in gangs! Passed out people? Ok, I'll give you that one


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## Sparkles (9 June 2010)

I am aware of that...it wasn't made as a serious statement meant to imply fact, just a joking comment to add to the list lol  

Would just be the same as someone going on about 'them tweed wearing country bumpkins that drive around in land rovers'


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## endymion (9 June 2010)

Binky01 said:



			I am aware of that...it wasn't made as a serious statement meant to imply fact, just a joking comment to add to the list lol  

Would just be the same as someone going on about 'them tweed wearing country bumpkins that drive around in land rovers' 

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When you guys did the parliament protest there was loads of tweed around though!!!


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## Sparkles (9 June 2010)

I really don't follow government/parliament...so have no idea what protest you're on about :s  Does that make me a rubbish person? LOL.

Whoever lifts the ban...then I'll like them  Easily pleased!!! Haha.


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## Laur (10 June 2010)

endymion said:



			Do you think we should kill every animals that's dangerous to humans then? 

I think most Londoners know about urban foxes, they are very common.
		
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No I didnt suggest that at all.  I think people need to be more aware of the dangers of these types of attacks and take preventative measures.


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## endymion (11 June 2010)

Laur said:



			No I didnt suggest that at all.  I think people need to be more aware of the dangers of these types of attacks and take preventative measures.
		
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You suggested that people may change their opinion on fox hunting in light of the incident. I was trying to make the point that this isn't a reason to be pro-hunt as other animals are dangerous to people and we don't hunt them. 

I think your opinion sounds sensible but a fox attack on a baby is a pretty rare occurance.


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## Gingerwitch (11 June 2010)

Sorry but the whole thing does not ring true with me, (neither did the dingo dissaperance or the abduction of poor maddie) - but at least this mother does appear (on the surface) to be distruaght ..... why would the mother not have a baby monitor? how did the fox get upstairs unseen?, why did the 1st baby not scream? what were the parents doing at the time?.

At the end of the day we have driven foxes and much wildlife into areas they would not normally frequent and to coin a phrase - you reep what you sow...


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## rosie fronfelen (11 June 2010)

apparently  the parents were having a barbecue at the time, it was late afternoon. why do you have to be so untrusting on this subject i wonder? another bunny hugger? the parents are well educated holding down good jobs, also this isn't the first time an urban fox has attacked a human!!i do find your post rather negative and insulting- do you know ANYTHING about the way a fox acts and are you really suggesting the mother did this to her babies herself??


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## Gingerwitch (11 June 2010)

Nope - no bunny hugging here - just come back from shooting the little sods.... had about 20 this week....and i have no objections to hunting or shooting MR Fox either... And yes i am sorry but me and a good number of my circle - mostly country bumkins into shooting, and farming are finding this story a bit bizzare.... no i dont suggest mum did this herself, but what about a family pet? most good parents of children that young remain in ear shot or have nannys or squawk boxes to keep tabs on the children.

Must have been a pretty quite barbi if a fox would "sneak" past all these people, savage two young children and they only make "muffeld" crys.... a bit like maddies mum saying we were only downstairs....when they did not use the nanny service (must have been a bit too expensive for middle class doctors to afford !) and they were only down the stairs, past the swimimng pool and over the other side at a taverna...  so yep only downstairs. Poor kid - oh and she was soo distruaght she managed to match her outfit the next day when the twins were taken to nursery..... no way would you let your other children out of your sight if one was missing..!


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## Gingerwitch (11 June 2010)

Rosiefen - another point if these were not the children of "middle class whom hold down a good job" you can bet your bottom dollar that the whole meida slant on this would be totally different... god forbid it had happend to an unemployed single mother in a tower block the social services would have been in like a shot - same with the Mccann case - if that had been lower class parents in benidorm the twins would have been taken into care as soon as they stepped back on uk soil and i believe they should have as well.  Just because you are "middle class holding down a perceived good job" does not make you a good parent and folks should be judged on how they conduct themselves not on their image.


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## SpruceRI (11 June 2010)

rosiefronfelen said:



			apparently  the parents were having a barbecue at the time, it was late afternoon. why do you have to be so untrusting on this subject i wonder? another bunny hugger? the parents are well educated holding down good jobs, also this isn't the first time an urban fox has attacked a human!!i do find your post rather negative and insulting- do you know ANYTHING about the way a fox acts and are you really suggesting the mother did this to her babies herself??
		
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Except that the first news report I heard was that the parents were in the living room watching Britains Got Talent.  Were they having a BBQ in front of the tele??

This all doesn't ring true with me either, and I'm wondering whether it was actually a family pet that attacked those babies.

As surely the kitchen litter bin smells a better place for a fox to mooch around in rather than in the door, straight up the stairs and into a babies room?

Hum.... there's been sooo many reports about how the fox got in and where the parents were at the time.... and weird that the babies hardly whimpered.

I'd be interested to hear about the bite marks analysis


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## rosie fronfelen (12 June 2010)

madhossy said:



			Except that the first news report I heard was that the parents were in the living room watching Britains Got Talent.  Were they having a BBQ in front of the tele??

This all doesn't ring true with me either, and I'm wondering whether it was actually a family pet that attacked those babies.

As surely the kitchen litter bin smells a better place for a fox to mooch around in rather than in the door, straight up the stairs and into a babies room?

Hum.... there's been sooo many reports about how the fox got in and where the parents were at the time.... and weird that the babies hardly whimpered.

I'd be interested to hear about the bite marks analysis
		
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so madhossy, what are you implying? do you as well suspect the parents? do you know the lay out of the house? it just doesn't get away from the fact that NOONE wants to blame cuddly, fluffy mr.fox, oh. Charlie wouldn' do such a thing!! this is what people are trying to say.


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## rosie fronfelen (12 June 2010)

Gingerwitch said:



			Rosiefen - another point if these were not the children of "middle class whom hold down a good job" you can bet your bottom dollar that the whole meida slant on this would be totally different... god forbid it had happend to an unemployed single mother in a tower block the social services would have been in like a shot - same with the Mccann case - if that had been lower class parents in benidorm the twins would have been taken into care as soon as they stepped back on uk soil and i believe they should have as well.  Just because you are "middle class holding down a perceived good job" does not make you a good parent and folks should be judged on how they conduct themselves not on their image.
		
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ok, i know nuffin!only live on a farm and hubby is a huntsman- what he and my sons dont know about foxes is not worth knowing- i am not posting on this subject any more as i'm treated as an idiot, and all things considered i cannot take it anyway- so fire away, im sure these poor parents wold "love" to read these posts!!


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## SpruceRI (12 June 2010)

rosiefronfelen said:



			so madhossy, what are you implying? do you as well suspect the parents? do you know the lay out of the house? it just doesn't get away from the fact that NOONE wants to blame cuddly, fluffy mr.fox, oh. Charlie wouldn' do such a thing!! this is what people are trying to say.
		
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Nope rosiefronfelen, I'm not implying the fox is a lovely fluffy gentle creature at all, or that he/she wouldn't do such a thing, I'm querying the several changes to the story by different news reporters.  Such things make me suspicious as to what the truth really is.

I do not doubt that the babies were injured by an animal.

This is not a personal attack against you.... just a debate like all the other debates on here.  Sorry I 'spoke'....as unlike you, I do not know everything there is to know about foxes.


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## Gingerwitch (12 June 2010)

Rosie - i am also not defending or protecting the "fox" but what i am saying is basically if you are not there for your children then things may happen - i really cannot comprehend a mother not being able to hear its 9 month old children - it just does not sit in any way shape or form with the way i have been brought up - or event expect mums to behave.  I actually am very anti children - do not have them, do not want them, BUT i certainly do not want them to get hurt - this mums parenting skills certainly leave a lot to be desired - it may have been a fox attack or a dog or rat, it may have been a fire or one of the children choking - which ever it was 99.9% of parents would have know in an instance - ie they would have been in the same room, had a squawk box etc - at the end of the day these were 9 month old children - okay not at the most vunerable stage but pretty close - and to that end the parenting skills are questionalbe - and as i stated earlier had this been a high rise flat single mum the social would be in there now interveiwing, blaming and possibly taking into care.


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## Laur (13 June 2010)

endymion said:



			You suggested that people may change their opinion on fox hunting in light of the incident. I was trying to make the point that this isn't a reason to be pro-hunt as other animals are dangerous to people and we don't hunt them. 

I think your opinion sounds sensible but a fox attack on a baby is a pretty rare occurance.
		
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It wasnt exactly a suggestion, it was merely a light-hearted joke.  Peoples opinion on foxhunting is quite irrelevant in this case really.  I just hope the poor kids make a full recovery.


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## mcnaughty (17 June 2010)

Gingerwitch said:



			Rosie - i am also not defending or protecting the "fox" but what i am saying is basically if you are not there for your children then things may happen - i really cannot comprehend a mother not being able to hear its 9 month old children - it just does not sit in any way shape or form with the way i have been brought up - or event expect mums to behave.  I actually am very anti children - do not have them, do not want them, BUT i certainly do not want them to get hurt - this mums parenting skills certainly leave a lot to be desired - it may have been a fox attack or a dog or rat, it may have been a fire or one of the children choking - which ever it was 99.9% of parents would have know in an instance - ie they would have been in the same room, had a squawk box etc - at the end of the day these were 9 month old children - okay not at the most vunerable stage but pretty close - and to that end the parenting skills are questionalbe - and as i stated earlier had this been a high rise flat single mum the social would be in there now interveiwing, blaming and possibly taking into care.
		
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Crikey - has this turned into a parenting witch hunt now...  Parents are allowed to have lives too.  I have two kids and never used a baby alarm.  I would not use one at night because they are pointless noisy things that keep parents awake when we should be catching up on very infrequent sleep.  If a baby were to choke - not sure what on in their cot - but if they were, you are pretty unlikely to hear that anyway on an alarm.

As for child stealing - do you actually know how rare that is?  

Fact is, there are too many foxes now because their numbers are not being controlled properly.  Everyone knew that once the fox population in the countryside reached a critical level they would spill into the towns and cities as there is a plentiful supply of food.  

I was driving through Ruislip the other evening at 9pm and saw 3 adult foxes - all of them were quite happy to trot across the road in front of my moving car without a care in the world and certainly no fear.  I have seen a domestic cat move faster when it is at risk of being run down!

As for leaving your house door or windows open - well, I think this is a no brainer surely in hot weather.


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## chessy (18 June 2010)

Seafarer said:



			Urban foxes are certainly very different creatures. They are very bold and march about the streets in broad daylight - we even have one who has a snooze on the railway platform in the afternoon (though he does move if anybody gets *too* close). 

I don't buy the idea that there are armies of people feeding them; I've lived in London for 22 years and I don't know anybody who would do that - or who would try to entice them into the garden (who wants a lawn covered in fox s**t?).

They are tolerated because on the whole they don't do much harm and it's cheaper just to let them be (the councils are too taken up with the cockroach and rat problem - especially in Hackney).

Foxes live in the city because it is convenient. Why bother exerting yourself breaking into the hen house when you can stroll down to the station and wait for the drunken commuters to appear, dropping their Kentucky Fried Chicken?  

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Totally agree with this, Seafarer.

I too live in an urban area and see foxes all the time, mostly in the very early hours of the morning. They are a totally different animal to the rural fox and I doubt this incident means we'll be seeing a load of huntsmen galloping through the streets, jumping over wheelie bins and garden fences.

And no, I'm not an ignorant urban "bunnyhugger". 

I certainly have not come across anyone who would feed the local foxes and I have mostly observed them scavenging for themselves, and our local council tolerates them.

My thoughts are with the family at this time, it is a terrible thing to happen.


Also - Gingerwitch is correct when she says this:




			At the end of the day we have driven foxes and much wildlife into areas they would not normally frequent and to coin a phrase - you reep what you sow...
		
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## Blacklist (19 June 2010)

Wheelie bins in cities, no fear of man, hunger are a few factors why the urban fox is having to try and find its meals elsewhere


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## gemin1eye (21 June 2010)

with everyone saying how urban foxes favour convenience, why the hell would one go all the way upstairs, past the kitchen into the babies room and climb into their cots to savage them? No matter how bold they are I find it very unlikely.


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## Mike007 (22 June 2010)

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/...-fox-spotted-on-top-of-horse-201006212836/For all you daily mash readers.


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## chessy (22 June 2010)

Mike007 said:



http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/...-fox-spotted-on-top-of-horse-201006212836/For all you daily mash readers.

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_""But if you do find yourself in open countryside with a group of mounted foxes hurtling towards you, either pretend to be a tree or try digging a hole really, really quickly.""_

Fantastic!!!


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## EAST KENT (22 June 2010)

What could be tastier to a fox than a chubby little leg/arm of a whimpering creature?Maybe someone out there is creating havoc by making fox "squeakers" with baby gurgles instead of rabbit in distress noises??


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