# Horses for meat - Yes or No?



## Blacklist (13 April 2011)

Just a question for the breeding forum I did pose a similar question on the New lounge last year. 

With the dearth of unwanted horses here in the UK should we start eating them?What does the forum think on the subject of eating horses. If a horse has had a good life and is humanely slaughtered here in UK then exported for meat to the Continent - why is this right/wrong? and why don't we eat horseflesh here in the UK. Is is not really any different to an agricultural meat animal - except we ride them etc. 

Please understand I am NOT in favour of 'live' export. But we could be heading for problems 'horse wise' and 'horses for meat' is a viable alternative if handled properly and more importantly 'humainly'


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## Maesfen (13 April 2011)

I personally couldn't eat horse, the same as I couldn't eat dog but don't think I'm a bunny hugger, I'm not, nothing could be further from the truth.  We have cattle, pigs and hens here, I'll happily eat them but not horsemeat, no thank you; they are too personal to me (even though it wouldn't be my horse I was eating).  I have no problem with horse meat being generally available, just not for me and I think a lot of people will see it the same way.


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## Hebe (13 April 2011)

No


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## posie_honey (13 April 2011)

yup - i'd happily eat horse

i eat meat so in for a penny in for a pound - i wont put one type of animals life as having more value than another - to me that's hypicritical.

but i do care about humane living conditions, travelling and slaughter - for me that's more of an issue


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## amy_b (13 April 2011)

I would like to know what it tastes like - but without having to eat it!! 
I dont think horse farms would work in the UK, I dont think there is a market for it.


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## Katikins (13 April 2011)

posie_honey said:



			yup - i'd happily eat horse

i eat meat so in for a penny in for a pound - i wont put one type of animals life as having more value than another - to me that's hypicritical.

but i do care about humane living conditions, travelling and slaughter - for me that's more of an issue
		
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Exactly this!!


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## GinnieRedwings (13 April 2011)

posie_honey said:



			yup - i'd happily eat horse

i eat meat so in for a penny in for a pound - i wont put one type of animals life as having more value than another - to me that's hypicritical.

*but i do care about humane living conditions, travelling and slaughter - for me that's more of an issue*

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Ditto ^^^

I am French, so I have eaten horse meat. As a teenager, I felt I couldn't reconcile spending most of my time caring for horses and then eating them for dinner, so I stopped.

But as a 40 year old woman, I think my "principles" are a little less polarised, a little more balanced and rounder round the edges 

When I was a teenager in France, there were very few horses actually bred for meat, because it takes 2-3 years before there is enough meat on a horse to make it worth slaughtering. The meat market was very much fed by unwanted/injured riding horses and failed race horses. 

I had the most enlightening, but also slightly disturbing chat with a riding club owner a few years ago, when I went for a ride on the beach in South Western France. He explained that the BSE crisis changed the traditional balance of the horse meat market. A lot of people replaced their beef consumption with horse meat and as a result of very increased demand, horse meat prices shot up, making the average riding horse with not much potential much more valuable as a steak. He himself bought a handful of horses off the racetrack at the beginning of the high tourist season and sold them to the meat man at the end of the summer... so that very sweet 4 year old TB I just had a fab gallop on the beach on, might very well be on someone's plate in October, if he didn't do well in the young horse SJ classes... 

The issue is not the rights or wrongs of eating horse meat. The issue is what a market-driven industry pushes less scrupulous people to do for money. 

I'm not sure I can morally ever come to terms with that...


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## breezing (13 April 2011)

I would be happy to eat horsemeat as long as they are reared and slaughtered humanely,
I have wondered why horse farming hasnt been thought of as being much greener than cattle and sheep farming as they dont ruminate so dont produce as much methane .


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## tigerlily12345 (13 April 2011)

i have no problem with horses for meat but (very hypocritically) i dont know if i would be able to eat horse meat.. but i would have no issue with it being sold for human consumption (for other people!)


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## JadeyyBabeyy (13 April 2011)

i would try it but dnt think i would liek the taste.
it would be far kinder to some unwanted horses to be slaughtered then past from pillar to post / not being looked after correctly etc.
and if it it done correctly and transported correctly then it is fine.
you cant eat cows/pigs/sheep etc and favour horses.


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## sisco (13 April 2011)

No, I eat very little red meat so I wouldn't start eating horsemeat.


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## FanyDuChamp (13 April 2011)

Illogical as I eat lamb and other red meats but no. I simply couldn't.
FDC


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## cruiseline (13 April 2011)

I don't have a problem with horses being use for meat. I eat all other meats, so why not horse. It would have to be a horse I didn't know though, so I couldn't be a horse meat farmer.


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## BBH (13 April 2011)

No i wouldn't eat horse meat. I interact with them everyday so I know they have personalities, intelligence etc etc.

I don't interact with any cows, sheep or pigs tbh but I don't eat a lot of red meat anyway.

I don't object to others if they want to eat it but for me its a no no. I couldn't / wouldn't eat dogs either, the thought is repulsive.


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## retribution (13 April 2011)

No, even the thought of it.


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## ThePinkPony (13 April 2011)

Pigs are deemed third most intelligent animals in the world. And they are very humanised in their ways. Noone thinks of that when they tuck into their roast.

why should it be any different. i would eat horsemeat, and i adore horses. I also adore the cows grazing outside my garden, they have claves at the moment and they are the cutest. id still eat veal though. And i wish it was more readily available.

i think its so hypocritical to say you wouldnt eat horse because 'it has a personality-intelligence''. All living things have a degree of that.


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## lazybee (13 April 2011)

No I wouldn't eat horse meat. It doesn't make me a hypocrite either. Just because you eat meat it doesn't mean any meat is fair game. To my my mind there's no difference between horses and dogs, both are man partner animals and they aren't traditionally eaten. Someone will always say 'what about France'. and yes they eat dogs in enough places too. It doesn't make it right.


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## ThePinkPony (13 April 2011)

Horses have been used as meat and transport all through evolution.

Genghis Khan anyone?


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## Sandylou (13 April 2011)

Most definitely NOT!!! You'd be eating someone's best friend!


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## BBH (13 April 2011)

ThePinkPony said:



			Pigs are deemed third most intelligent animals in the world. And they are very humanised in their ways. Noone thinks of that when they tuck into their roast.

why should it be any different. i would eat horsemeat, and i adore horses. I also adore the cows grazing outside my garden, they have claves at the moment and they are the cutest. id still eat veal though. And i wish it was more readily available.

i think its so hypocritical to say you wouldnt eat horse because 'it has a personality-intelligence''. All living things have a degree of that.
		
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I suppose for me though I only interact with horses so have little / no knowledge of other farm animals. If I had a pet cow though I prob wouldn't eat beef either or likewise if I had a KunePig I wouldn't eat pork. I'm not too fussed about eating meat so prob not such an issue for me.


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## Aoibhin (13 April 2011)

yes, at the end of the day they are a no higher rank than cattle or swine ect....

i have & prob will eat it again, i have grown up around cattle & pigs being reared & slaughtered for consumption & still happily eat meat even knowing which animal it came from. 

but its all about public perseption, in some countries they eat eqines with not a second thought but would consider it horrifyinig to kill & eat cattle ect.

Horse's for corses and all (sorry about the pun there)


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## rubysmum (13 April 2011)

i dont think i could eat my own horse - but who can tell - put me on  crashed plane in the Andes & god knows what i might eat [ i suspect a cultural reference tht aonly works for the more aged amongst us]

I have no particular strong views on meat eating - either you eat meat or you dont - it was all once alive & cute


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## BBH (13 April 2011)

Out of interest what does it taste like ?


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## joosie (13 April 2011)

BBH said:



			Out of interest what does it taste like ?
		
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Delicious. 
I ate horse meat a few times when I lived in Italy, and I loved it. It's a bit like beef, but with a slightly "sweeter" taste, it's also not very fatty and is believed to be a very healthy meat.


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## Eothain (13 April 2011)

Why not? if there's a market opportunity, you might as well!
Horse would go well alongside the Crocodile and Ostrich (sp?) that I've already eaten!

I wouldn't mind eating some of the red rotten, good for nothing, wouldn't jump out of your way, nags of things I've experienced in this business!


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## angrovestud (13 April 2011)

No I could not eat a horse, I have sent a horse to be eaten on the hook way back when, so I am not worried about anyone else eating horse, I cant eat anything I have looked after I guess I would be a terrible farmer or wife to one! I would no more think about eating my dog or a cat for that matter, as I see them as part of our culture we went to war on them they got eaten but only when there was no other options.
we dont ride pigs, sheep or cattle we have never as a nation has a relationship with cattle or sheep or pigs the way we do with horses.thats what make it difficult for us we dont grow up reading black beauty the bull calf! in my view its the romanticism of the horse which seperates it from the species we do eat


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## applecart14 (13 April 2011)

If and its a big IF but if the horse in question had lived a good life and were slaughtered humanely then I don't see it as any different to eating any other meat.  What i do object to is the transportation of lifestock to slaughter, and obviously this is what worries most people.  And more and more we hear about kosher/halal meat and the debate this ensues.  So there would be a lot of points to consider.  But i think the horsemeat in question would have to come from farmed animals and not from retired family pets.  The whole reason I have always requested my horses have been incinerated after death is so they don't end up in the food chain, even if the food chain is only dogs.  But those are just my personal thoughts.


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## Spring Feather (13 April 2011)

I don't care for the taste or texture of horsemeat so it's not something I'd go out of my way to eat again.  In the same light, I don't care for the taste or texture of ostrich meat and I hate the smell and taste of lamb and venison.  If I did like the taste of horsemeat however then yes I'd buy it and make pony pies out of it.


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## luckilotti (13 April 2011)

I dont have any issues with horses being used for meat, but i myself wouldnt eat it again.  (apparently i had it as a 10 year old in France, i just remember eating what i thought was a beef steak).
I do eat meat - however, i am a fuddy duddy!  I dont eat any pig produce - i have NEVER tried bacon even (that normally suprises people), the smell of bacon, ham, pork etc makes me want to vomit and i cant be around it - why am i like this.... Well from a young age i have loved pigs, i dont own one (parents and now hubby wont let me).  
I have never had rabbit (had rabbits as pets), duck etc. 
The only meat i do eat is Turkey (really want to raise my own one year for Christmas... but would i get too 'attached'), Chicken, Beef and thats it.  
I have had Alligator in the past and would happily have that again. 

As long as the animals in question dont suffer and are treated with dignity and respect, i have no issues if there was an increase in eating horsemeat here in the UK, but i wouldnt be eating it.


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## magic104 (13 April 2011)

I have eaten it & it is supposed to be better for you then beef.  So long as it is all humane, I do not see the difference between this and any other animal that gets served up on a plate.  We had not problems with eating them in the war!  Ok you can argue there was no choice, had to survive.  I just think it comes down to how they are kept & then disposed of, I would hate to see them farmed, sorry, but farming is about profit & animal welfare is not always taken into account.


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## Sportznight (13 April 2011)

I have no problem with horse meat or any other meat, it is the way in which the animal is handled prior to it becoming 'meat' that is the issue for me!  If horse meat were eaten in this country, then at least passports would have a wider relevance, due to drugs administered and signing the declaration for human consumption or not....


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## millreef (13 April 2011)

Whilst we're on the subject... What about your elderly family members who have had a good life but a nearing the end.  What are your options?  Old folks home, expensive loft conversion, even more expensive live-in-helper?  Why not utilize them for the greater good?  Imagine, sitting around the dinner table passing around the gravy boat for a nice piece of great uncle Peter's thigh.  It's what he'd want.


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## Sandylou (13 April 2011)

millreef said:



			Whilst we're on the subject... What about your elderly family members who have had a good life but a nearing the end.  What are your options?  Old folks home, expensive loft conversion, even more expensive live-in-helper?  Why not utilize them for the greater good?  Imagine, sitting around the dinner table passing around the gravy boat for a nice piece of great uncle Peter's thigh.  It's what he'd want.
		
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^^^^^^ EXACTLY!! Well said


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## Blacklist (13 April 2011)

millreef said:



			Whilst we're on the subject... What about your elderly family members who have had a good life but a nearing the end.  What are your options?  Old folks home, expensive loft conversion, even more expensive live-in-helper?  Why not utilize them for the greater good?  Imagine, sitting around the dinner table passing around the gravy boat for a nice piece of great uncle Peter's thigh.  It's what he'd want.
		
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Lets be adult about this


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## Sportznight (13 April 2011)

millreef said:



			Whilst we're on the subject... What about your elderly family members who have had a good life but a nearing the end.  What are your options?  Old folks home, expensive loft conversion, even more expensive live-in-helper?  Why not utilize them for the greater good?  Imagine, sitting around the dinner table passing around the gravy boat for a nice piece of great uncle Peter's thigh.  It's what he'd want.
		
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May I ask if you eat meat?



Sandylou said:



			^^^^^^ EXACTLY!! Well said 

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Really?  In what way?



Blacklist said:



			Lets be adult about this
		
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Agree...


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## Sportznight (13 April 2011)

In fact, never mind about eating meat at all, what about cheese?  Eggs?  Biscuits?  Fish?  What about wearing leather?  Using glue? etc etc etc...  Where do you start/stop?


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## SusannaF (13 April 2011)

I'm not a vegan, so I'd be a hypocrite if I said others shouldn't eat horses, but that said, I saw some "_Pferderouladen_" on a market stall the other day, and felt sick at the sight of it. 

I've been doing a huge amount of research on horsemeat for a future book project, and while I can understand the arguments on both sides, I wonder about the practicalities of expanding the horse meat biz. It's a bit of an "either or", really. Historically, people ate horses in quantity only when there were lots of surplus equines around. Just now, we have a surplus, but I doubt horses are particularly economical to farm purely for meat. 

Consumption went up a little in France during the BSE crisis, but it's falling overall, and there was a motion in the Italian parliament to ban horse meat last year (didn't get anywhere though). It doesn't seem that the general trend is towards eating more horseflesh, so it's unlikely that the horsemeat business is going to suddenly leap to a higher level of production and sop up the excess horses produced and then neatly drop back down once horse numbers are "under control".

Sorry if that was a little incoherent... sinus hell today.


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## millreef (13 April 2011)

Sportznight said:



			May I ask if you eat meat?.
		
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Yes, you may.


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## GinnieRedwings (13 April 2011)

SusannaF said:



			Consumption went up a little in France during the BSE crisis, but it's falling overall, and there was a motion in the Italian parliament to ban horse meat last year (didn't get anywhere though). It doesn't seem that the general trend is towards eating more horseflesh, so it's unlikely that the horsemeat business is going to suddenly leap to a higher level of production and sop up the excess horses produced and then neatly drop back down once horse numbers are "under control".
		
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That's interesting. But my own experience with the French consumption is that 20 years ago it was very much akin to the comsumption of venison in this country - not your everyday meal, but also not fringe. Something you would treat yourself to at the restaurant or on a Sunday. 

I also understood that demand went right up during and after the BSE crisis, but my information is about 8 years old, so confidence in beef might be on the up.



GinnieRedwings said:



			The issue is not the rights or wrongs of eating horse meat. The issue is what a market-driven industry pushes less scrupulous people to do for money. 

I'm not sure I can morally ever come to terms with that...
		
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Apologies for quoting myself but ultimately I think for us horse owners, this debate should be whether the existence of a market for horse meat wouldn't actually mean more trouble for us in terms of thefts, etc...


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## Sportznight (13 April 2011)

millreef said:



			Yes, you may.
		
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HA!! You're too kind in 'allowing' me to ask such a question of you, though not generous enough to reply with a factual answer it seems...


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## magic104 (13 April 2011)

millreef said:



			Whilst we're on the subject... What about your elderly family members who have had a good life but a nearing the end.  What are your options?  Old folks home, expensive loft conversion, even more expensive live-in-helper?  Why not utilize them for the greater good?  Imagine, sitting around the dinner table passing around the gravy boat for a nice piece of great uncle Peter's thigh.  It's what he'd want.
		
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What!!  Are you for real???  But you know what while you have bought it up, why not, save the NHS a whole heap of money.  Animals have a right to be treated humanly & with compassion, but your argument is bloody stupid.


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## GinnieRedwings (13 April 2011)

millreef said:



			Whilst we're on the subject... What about your elderly family members who have had a good life but a nearing the end.  What are your options?  Old folks home, expensive loft conversion, even more expensive live-in-helper?  Why not utilize them for the greater good?  Imagine, sitting around the dinner table passing around the gravy boat for a nice piece of great uncle Peter's thigh.  It's what he'd want.
		
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Sportznight said:



			In fact, never mind about eating meat at all, what about cheese?  Eggs?  Biscuits?  Fish?  What about wearing leather?  Using glue? etc etc etc...  Where do you start/stop?
		
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Sorry, but this is silly...

Shouldn't this choice be left to the individual? Like chosing to be a vegetarian or not eat black pudding? 

It is fact that most human beings, given the choice and access to it, WILL eat meat in one form or another - some might even argue that we have elvolved to eat animal protein and that is necessary to our health. 

Is there any need to be judgemental either way on what is effectively a personal choice?

Don't we all think that the tiny minority of people who think that eating meat at all makes you a murderer are nutters? So why act the same way about people who would eat horse meat?


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## millreef (13 April 2011)

magic104 said:



			What!!  Are you for real???  But you know what while you have bought it up, why not, save the NHS a whole heap of money.  Animals have a right to be treated humanly & with compassion, but your argument is bloody stupid.
		
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Perspective really, one mans bloody stupid is another mans irony.


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## Sportznight (13 April 2011)

magic104 said:



			What!!  Are you for real???  But you know what while you have bought it up, why not, save the NHS a whole heap of money.  Animals have a right to be treated humanly & with compassion, but your argument is bloody stupid.
		
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Careful Magic, you might be accused of stepping around a subject and mincing with your words lol


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## C&C (13 April 2011)

Hey - as long as its not my horse on the plate! Although, Chance would keep us going for a long time!! 

Ive heard its really nice, very much like a beef steak but richer.


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## SusannaF (13 April 2011)

GinnieRedwings said:



			That's interesting. But my own experience with the French consumption is that 20n years ago it was very much akin to the comsumption of venison in this country - not your everyday meal, but also not fringe. Something you would treat yourself to at the restaurant or on a Sunday. 

I also understood that demand went right up during and after the BSE crisis, but my information is about 8 years old, so confidence in beef might be on the up.
		
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I think (without checking) that Italy are the biggest consumers and importers in Europe. But yes, the number of horse butchers in France is falling (the fact that they are required to specialise in horse meat tells you something too). There's allegedly a horse butcher somewhere in Berlin, but I've only seen it for sale "fresh" once, or as a jar of sausages which never seems to sell.
The most recent attempts by chefs in the UK and Australia to put horse meat on the menu have resulted in death threats, and the US is even more anti-slaughter than we are, so it's probably not going to catch on there, although there was a pilot scheme to market it on the east coast in the 1970s which did very well  until the beef lobby got wind of it.

Actually - the politics of it are another thing to take into account. The beef, lamb and pork lobbies probably don't want a brand new competitor in their market, and they will have more cash to spend on rubbishing horse meat than any nascent horse-meat industry could spend promoting itself.


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## C&C (13 April 2011)

millreef said:



			Whilst we're on the subject... What about your elderly family members who have had a good life but a nearing the end.  What are your options?  Old folks home, expensive loft conversion, even more expensive live-in-helper?  Why not utilize them for the greater good?  Imagine, sitting around the dinner table passing around the gravy boat for a nice piece of great uncle Peter's thigh.  It's what he'd want.
		
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LMAO - sorry, i found that really funny


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## C&C (13 April 2011)

posie_honey said:



			yup - i'd happily eat horse

i eat meat so in for a penny in for a pound - i wont put one type of animals life as having more value than another - to me that's hypicritical.

but i do care about humane living conditions, travelling and slaughter - for me that's more of an issue
		
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Here here, well said


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## C&C (13 April 2011)

eothain said:



			why not? If there's a market opportunity, you might as well!
Horse would go well alongside the crocodile and ostrich (sp?) that i've already eaten!

I wouldn't mind eating some of the red rotten, good for nothing, wouldn't jump out of your way, nags of things i've experienced in this business!
		
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pmsl :d:d


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## GinnieRedwings (13 April 2011)

SusannaF, thanks for that info. It's funny that after living in the UK for 20 years, I appear to have lost contact with the habits of my homeland 

When I lived in France, what could be called the far suburb of Paris, there was a horse butcher in every small to medium sized town. And yes, they did have to have separate premises from "normal" butchers. Some had 2 adjoining shops, one for horse meat, one for everything else.

Do you think the fall in the number of horse butchers might just be reflecting the fall in independent butcheries generally, due to the pressure of supermarkets, rather than a fall in horse meat comsumption generally?


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## SusannaF (13 April 2011)

GinnieRedwings said:



			SusannaF, thanks for that info. It's funny that after living in the UK for 20 years, I appear to have lost contact with the habits of my homeland 

When I lived in France, what could be called the far suburb of Paris, there was a horse butcher in every small to medium sized town. And yes, they did have to have separate premises from "normal" butchers. Some had 2 adjoining shops, one for horse meat, one for everything else.

Do you think the fall in the number of horse butchers might just be reflecting the fall in independent butcheries generally, due to the pressure of supermarkets, rather than a fall in horse meat comsumption generally?
		
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Hope I'm not sounding like an obnoxious know-all  I shouldn't be telling you what France is like  I appear to have become a horse-meat nerd...

My source said that horse meat accounts for only 1% of meat sold in France, and consumption has fallen by 12% in the last two years alone. It fell by 60% from 1980 to 2001, notwithstanding BSE  probably because there was a big scandal about transport conditions in 1983 and because there were several trichinosis (sp?) outbreaks in the 1970s/80s. 

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippophagie#France_2

(the French Wikipedia has loads on the subject. I had another statistical breakdown elsewhere but seem to have left it in the wrong folder. I'll have a look when I have time.)


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## Sportznight (13 April 2011)

GR, perhaps so, but my question(s) have merit (IMO  ) - where do you draw the line?  It's a personal choice and for some a question of 'belief'.


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## GinnieRedwings (13 April 2011)

SusannaF said:



			Hope I'm not sounding like an obnoxious know-all  I shouldn't be telling you what France is like  I appear to have become a horse-meat nerd...

My source said that horse meat accounts for only 1% of meat sold in France, and consumption has fallen by 12% in the last two years alone. It fell by 60% from 1980 to 2001, notwithstanding BSE  probably because there was a big scandal about transport conditions in 1983 and because there were several trichinosis (sp?) outbreaks in the 1970s/80s. 

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippophagie#France_2

(the French Wikipedia has loads on the subject. I had another statistical breakdown elsewhere but seem to have left it in the wrong folder. I'll have a look when I have time.)
		
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Not at all, I'm grateful! There are so many emotional issues surrounding this. French people have never been too bothered about what landed on our plates provided it tasted good , but just before I emigrated, the "Lutte contre l'hippophagie" people were begining to make a bit of noise though nothing like the "animal rights"  campainers here in England... thank goodness! 

As I have said before, the only real issue I can see is how the emergence of a market for horse meat might affect the way some people involved with horses might chose to conduct "business", if there was more money to be made from selling to the meat man, than from riding horses...


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## cruiseline (13 April 2011)

millreef said:



			Whilst we're on the subject... What about your elderly family members who have had a good life but a nearing the end.  What are your options?  Old folks home, expensive loft conversion, even more expensive live-in-helper?  Why not utilize them for the greater good?  Imagine, sitting around the dinner table passing around the gravy boat for a nice piece of great uncle Peter's thigh.  It's what he'd want.
		
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I somehow don't see how you can compare eating horse meat, to eating "uncle Peter's thigh" 

Some people in the world do not see horses as 'pets', I have a brother who does not and never will understand my 'obsession' with horses, but I am sure that the VAST majority of people have very deep feelings for there relatives.


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## GinnieRedwings (13 April 2011)

Sportznight said:



			GR, perhaps so, but my question(s) have merit (IMO  ) - where do you draw the line?  It's a personal choice and for some a question of 'belief'.
		
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I happen to personally agree with you...  but I _*try*_ and not judge too hard, even if sometimes, it's a little hard to do  

The question of "belief" is potentially a very dangerous one. It leads to people comparing animals to their great uncle Pete... and blow up the cars of scientists and set fire to people's family homes... It is better not to be too polarised and hope that by accepting my friend's choice to be a vegetarian, she won't call me a murderer for eating meat...


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## magic104 (13 April 2011)

millreef said:



			Perspective really, one mans bloody stupid is another mans irony.
		
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Except it takes it away from being a sensible discussion.  Animals live by instinct (something we ignore for ourselves) & are happy so long as their basic needs are met.  To start comparing them to humans is a waste of an argument.  It is no where near the same as eating your relative just because they have gotten old.  What do you suppose is happening to the surplus stock anyway?  As I said I do not want to go as far as seeing horses farmed for meat, I also dont think that is necessary anyway as enough are produced as it is.  I just dont think people need to feel guilty if they want to eat horse meat or any meat that is produced for consumption, by those that think of horses as pets, or in the same light as their cat or dog.  Though obviously some cultures dont have a problem eating the family pet, but that is another subject.


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## SusannaF (13 April 2011)

GinnieRedwings said:



			As I have said before, the only real issue I can see is how the emergence of a market for horse meat might affect the way some people involved with horses might chose to conduct "business", if there was more money to be made from selling to the meat man, than from riding horses...
		
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Quite! Especially as I can't imagine the spontaneous emergence of a legitimate horse-meat industry providing for the UK market. It would take too much capital and also require overturning centuries of British distaste for horse meat (which would be expensive).

I don't think our horse meat exports are rising either (I'd have to check though - given that China, Russia, Japan, etc still eat it, you'd have thought there would be a growing market).


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## Blacklist (13 April 2011)

GinnieRedwings said:



			That's interesting. But my own experience with the French consumption is that 20 years ago it was very much akin to the comsumption of venison in this country - not your everyday meal, but also not fringe. Something you would treat yourself to at the restaurant or on a Sunday. 

I also understood that demand went right up during and after the BSE crisis, but my information is about 8 years old, so confidence in beef might be on the up.



Apologies for quoting myself but ultimately I think for us horse owners, this debate should be whether the existence of a market for horse meat wouldn't actually mean more trouble for us in terms of thefts, etc...
		
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There already is a market for horse meat


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## GinnieRedwings (13 April 2011)

magic104 said:



			Though obviously some cultures dont have a problem eating the family pet, but that is another subject.
		
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I think you are wrong there, Magic, I think it is exactly the same subject. 

It's about personal choice and cultural identity/habit, and thinking ill of the Chinese for eating dog meat is as wrong as a Muslim thinking ill of me for enjoying my bacon butty.


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## Blacklist (13 April 2011)

magic104 said:



			Except it takes it away from being a sensible discussion.  Animals live by instinct (something we ignore for ourselves) & are happy so long as their basic needs are met.  To start comparing them to humans is a waste of an argument.  It is no where near the same as eating your relative just because they have gotten old.  What do you suppose is happening to the surplus stock anyway?  As I said I do not want to go as far as seeing horses farmed for meat, I also dont think that is necessary anyway as enough are produced as it is.  I just dont think people need to feel guilty if they want to eat horse meat or any meat that is produced for consumption, by those that think of horses as pets, or in the same light as their cat or dog.  Though obviously some cultures dont have a problem eating the family pet, but that is another subject.
		
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Very good points


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## GinnieRedwings (13 April 2011)

Blacklist said:



			There already is a market for horse meat
		
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True, but am I right in thinking you'd get about £500 for an average-sized horse? Are you not still (current market conditions notwithstanding) likely to get more on the riding horse market on average?

And there is a cultural issue too... My horse dentist was telling me last week that she had to call Redwings on 3 horses that appeared to have been abandoned on a bit of land near one of her other customers'... It would appear that (some) people in this country had rather let unwanted horses starve rather than send them to the meat man.

Incidentally, Redwings were full to the brink and said they couldn't take any more...


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## magic104 (13 April 2011)

GinnieRedwings said:



			I think you are wrong there, Magic, I think it is exactly the same subject. 

It's about personal choice and cultural identity/habit, and thinking ill of the Chinese for eating dog meat is as wrong as a Muslim thinking ill of me for enjoying my bacon butty.
		
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What I meant was this thread is about consuming horse meat.


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## SusannaF (13 April 2011)

GinnieRedwings said:



			True, but am I right in thinking you'd get about £500 for an average-sized horse? Are you not still (current market conditions notwithstanding) likely to get more on the riding horse market on average?
		
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I'm also pretty sure that Poland and Romania, who *do* produce horses for meat and export, can undercut that price.



GinnieRedwings said:



			And there is a cultural issue too... My horse dentist was telling me last week that she had to call Redwings on 3 horses that appeared to have been abandoned on a bit of land near one of her other customers'... It would appear that (some) people in this country had rather let unwanted horses starve rather than send them to the meat man.

Incidentally, Redwings were full to the brink and said they couldn't take any more...
		
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Also true, and Redwings would never do what Ada Cole did in the 1920s and set up a humane horse abbatoir to prevent live exports (in lieu of just taking the horses in and looking after them for the rest of their life). _Autre temps, autre moeurs_. More reason that it's hard to imagine the horse meat industry picking up in the UK.


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## Blacklist (13 April 2011)

GinnieRedwings said:



			True, but am I right in thinking you'd get about £500 for an average-sized horse? Are you not still (current market conditions notwithstanding) likely to get more on the riding horse market on average?

And there is a cultural issue too... My horse dentist was telling me last week that she had to call Redwings on 3 horses that appeared to have been abandoned on a bit of land near one of her other customers'... It would appear that (some) people in this country had rather let unwanted horses starve rather than send them to the meat man.

Incidentally, Redwings were full to the brink and said they couldn't take any more...
		
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Many people are having financial difficulty at the moment and finding customers even for descent horses is getting very hard, this can lead to all sorts of problems neglect being one of them - in addition not every horse owner is aware of the 'meat' market and I am only suggesting this as one of may options.

I maybe hadn't made myself clear - on the whole I am talking about horses at the end of their useful lives problem horses - but I suppose 'how long is a piece of string'

Ethically what is wrong with eating horses I personally would prefer a horse to leave our yard having had a good quality life - and go for meat (humanly slaughtered here in the UK) than to send it to someone for a companion etc - then past from pillar to post and not treated properly. Also when you consider the cost of alternative disposal the meat market is viable if humanly done.


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## Happy Horse (13 April 2011)

I don't have any problem with the consumption of horse meat.  I don't think I would like to try it myself but can't see any difference between a cow farmed for meat and a horse.  I'd be uncomfortable with a family pet being sold into the human meat chain.  The main thing is as with all animals they are treated humanely and that their life and death is as good as it can be.


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## MerrySherryRider (13 April 2011)

Throughout history, man has had a special relationship with the horse, so much has been written about them, many famous men have been quoted for their observations about the beauty, the partnership, the times of loyalty and service in war and work.
 Like the dog, horses hold a special place in our history and culture. We have a special relationship with them because of their usefulness and williness to adapt to the needs of society.
 Horses can be sold for vast sums of money because of their skill and beauty. They cannot be compared to cattle and sheep because of their unique role.

I once watched a programme about a small American rancher, living a hard life in an adverse climate. When asked what happened to his working horses when they couldn't work anymore, he replied that they went to be sold for meat. He couldn't afford not to get some money back for the next horse. The man could hardly speak, his voice broke and he looked embarrassed as he wiped his eyes. He loved his horses, they were his livelihood and he felt the sense of betrayal to them keenly, but economics meant the deed had to be done.

No, I would not eat horse. I have plenty to eat living in a country where the shops are brimming with food.


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## GinnieRedwings (13 April 2011)

Blacklist said:



			Ethically what is wrong with eating horses I personally would prefer a horse to leave our yard having had a good quality life - and go for meat (humanly slaughtered here in the UK) than to send it to someone for a companion etc - then past from pillar to post and not treated properly. Also when you consider the cost of alternative disposal the meat market is viable if humanly done.
		
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Ethically, provided it is done humanely, there's nothing wrong in my view. I agree. 

But practically, I think SusannaF is right, it's unlikely to happen for all sorts of reasons.


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## Sportznight (13 April 2011)

GinnieRedwings said:



			It's about personal choice and cultural identity/habit, and thinking ill of the Chinese for eating dog meat is as wrong as a Muslim thinking ill of me for enjoying my bacon butty.
		
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That's more what I meant - to some animals don't have souls, irrespective of genus, therefore a comparison to a human could be the ultimate insult.



horserider said:



			Throughout history, man has had a special relationship with the horse, so much has been written about them, many famous men have been quoted for their observations about the beauty, the partnership, the times of loyalty and service in war and work.
 Like the dog, horses hold a special place in our history and culture. We have a special relationship with them because of their usefulness and williness to adapt to the needs of society.
 Horses can be sold for vast sums of money because of their skill and beauty. They cannot be compared to cattle and sheep because of their unique role.
		
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Cattle, sheep, goats, pigs, chickens etc all have a unique role.  It's a personal decision as to whether one does or doesn't eat horse meat, or any other.  In a way horses can be compared to other beasts of burden though - look at the role of the camel.

You've reminded me a horsey quote, that has an anon author
"Look back at man's struggle for freedom,
trace his present day's strength to it's source.
And you'll find that man's pathway to glory,
is strewn with the bones of a horse"



GinnieRedwings said:



			Ethically, provided it is done humanely, there's nothing wrong in my view. I agree. 

But practically, I think SusannaF is right, it's unlikely to happen for all sorts of reasons.
		
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I completely agree with the above.


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## eventrider23 (13 April 2011)

Would I eat it MYSELF? NO  Could I say, have it in my house for someone else to eat?  No. BUT that said, that is my choice....I have no problem with others eating it, as long as as people have said, it has been slaughtered humanely, etc and also in my POV as long as I am not around.  I am not being hypocritical...that is just how I feel towards them.  I was raised a vegetarian and as i grew older I branched out into eating meat on my own but I am selective...I will eat beef, chicken, turkey, bacon, etc but won't eat things like veal, venison, liver, and various other things.  That is my choice but again I have no problem if others eat them as I think everyone should have the choice...same as I don't want people having a go at me for not eating say, liver, I wouldn't have a go at them for eating horse meat.  It's a free choice world.  

That said, due to being very animal oriented i do know if I owned cows, pigs, chickens, etc i would not be able to eat them as they would pass from being a food product to being my friend...but still would not stop others.  This has been a conversation I have many a time with a friend who is all for having a farm and butchering and eating his own stock whereas I on the other hand, whilst I will never ever have a go at someone for doing it, could not do it myself.....I could not say, rear and animal from birth and then send for slaughter and later have back on my dinner table....but that is MY CHOICE....and i won't push it on others......I just warn people that if I cook, not to expect anything of those types on the menu! LOL


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## cruiseline (13 April 2011)

Sportznight said:



			In a way horses can be compared to other beasts of burden though - look at the role of the camel.
		
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My late father-in-law and my brother-in-law have bred and continue to breed some of the countries top racing camels here in Dubai. Their pedigrees go back generations, each one is an individual with their own characteristics and personalities. When they talk about them you can see the love they have for their animals in every sentence. However, camel is very often eaten here, but granted it is usually only saved for special occasions. If you are served camel at some ones home, it is considered a great honour.


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## SusannaF (13 April 2011)

The long view of our history horses is, roughly speaking, that the only use we had for them for 90,000 years was as meat. Then, 5,000 years ago we domesticated them for riding, and suddenly they became useful for transport and war.
If you had lots of grazing, you also ate your riding horses (ie Steppes hordes). If you didn't, you didn't, because they were scarce, and a taboo grew up. There was a papal edict against eating horse flesh in the first millennium BC (must check), which was probably issued because Europe was coming under attack from Arab horsemen from North Africa, and we needed all our horses for war. 
The French (for example) only started eating horses as an everyday, acceptable meat in the mid-nineteenth century because the Industrial revolution meant that there were far more work horses and far more hungry and poor proletarians, so, doctors and social reformers argued, let them eat horse.  
But there was a lot of controversy about it at the time, and some people argued that if they started to eat horses, the next thing they'd eat was dogs, and then humans. 

Anyway, between the economic/war side of things and the changing way in which we see horses as companions and comrades, it's taboo in a lot of countries, but by no means in all.


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## angrovestud (13 April 2011)

More thoughts to add on the cultural side Great Artists have made paintings of horses, status has been gained, and social climbing done using horses just thoughts but they are contributing to what we feel about horses today I remember as a child being taken to the Tate gallery and spending hours looking at Stubbs and jus knowing that this was my cource in life so the horse runs deep in our culture a a non food source.


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## Blacklist (13 April 2011)

Maybe Tesco should do a promotion we've had Kangaroo


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## SusannaF (13 April 2011)

SusannaF said:



			There was a papal edict against eating horse flesh in the first millennium BC (must check),
		
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 Ahem, spot the mistake. AD, not BC.


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## magic104 (13 April 2011)

Blacklist said:



			Maybe Tesco should do a promotion we've had Kangaroo
		
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Oh god no, I had a real taste for Kangaroo steaks if they started selling it in Tesco's I would be bankrupt!  We humans are funny.  My mum grew up eating homebred chickens when she lived in Narobi, never thought anything of it.  She married my father moved to Yorkshire & after feeding & caring, then preparing & cooking the rabbits they kept in the same way as her parents kept hens, she could not eat the thing.  She said she saw it's thigh on her plate & thought of the rabbit & that was it, she lost her appetite.


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## eventrider23 (13 April 2011)

Blacklist - too right as I have seen Kangaroo and even Ostrich in Tesco


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## magic104 (13 April 2011)

eventrider23 said:



			Blacklist - too right as I have seen Kangaroo and even Ostrich in Tesco
		
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Not in the one I use thank god!


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## Blacklist (13 April 2011)

magic104 said:



			Not in the one I use thank god!
		
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It puts a spring in your step!


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## magic104 (13 April 2011)

Blacklist said:



			It puts a spring in your step!
		
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ummm not sure about that, but went well on a barbee.  For people who like meat, well worth a try.


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## Randonneuse (13 April 2011)

GinnieRedwings said:



			Ditto ^^^

I am French, so I have eaten horse meat.
		
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Sorry, this had me smile! I'm French but have never eaten horse meat :-D
Not intending to as for me they are like pets and not for human consumption!
I am not against it though, if people want to eat it, it's their choice.
As other said, I am more concerned about the transport etc before they get killed...


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## mellissa (13 April 2011)

This is purely my opinion but to me, it is gross.  I would never forgive myself if I ate it. Yuk


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## Violet (14 April 2011)

Yes and I already do eat horse meat, very good flavour and healthy.
I rather see a failed horse on the plate than "rescued" and sometimes left in a field.


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## Blacklist (14 April 2011)

Thank you for the various responses


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