# Hunt Etiquette?



## LuckyRed (17 October 2011)

Hi Guys

A question of courtesy and ettiquette...

I was out following a local hunt the other day and there was a chap riding iwth them who sometimes comes out with our hunt.  I was struck by how unfit his horse was and how tired it looked towards the end of the second line - the rider is not the most skilled and bounces quite a bit, balancing on the reins and generally not helping the horse which was struggling to jump and generally looking knackered.  The horse was really struggling to jump and clattering every jump, damaging one so it would've needed repair.

I was wondering what the etiquette is about suggesting / telling an member of the field that their horse is too tired to continue and would they please leave the field?  I know that each of us has responsibility for our own horse but as a Joint Master (It's my first season as JM so I'm very conscious of not doing the wrong thing!) I'm wondering whether I would have a responsibility, (not only to my own horse) to the other members of the Field and also to the reputation of the hunt - should he have been politely taken to one side and suggested that he walk the horse home rather than continue, risking his own safety, that of the horse and of other members of the field (if he fell over a jump the riders behind are at risk too)?

what do you guys think?  Should a member of the Field be allowed to carry on even when his horse is quite plainly struggling?


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## JenHunt (17 October 2011)

hello! That _is_ an interesting question! 

personally I think that the whole field have a responsibility for each other and their horses, not just the masters. The last thing anyone wants is for a tired horse to have a fall and seriously injure or kill a rider. But I see your point about not offending anyone either.

The other thing to consider is whether the same horse would be better off with a better rider - i.e. is it his riding that is to blame, or his lack of preparation?

sadly, I think there is not much you can do, except keep an eye on him, and if he's causing problems with damage to fences and holding everyone else up from jumping, to ask him to refrain from that part of the day's activities. Easier said than done, and I don't envy you. 

who are you JM with? Congratulations!


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## Dobiegirl (17 October 2011)

I think as JM you need to ask yourself if anything happened to this horse and rider would it impact on the hunts reputation, I would say yes and from a welfare issue alone as JM you need to have a quiet word.


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## Addicted to Hunting (17 October 2011)

Tricky situation, but if you think could harm others etc, perhaps have a quiet word, could also be worth asking your other JMs and secretaries their opnions on said person?? If this horse had kicked, then it would be asked to wear a red ribbon, and also if they kept overtaking the field then it maybe suggested to try a different bit, just thinking off other scenarios that a quiet word would be spoken to the rider to make things easier for the rest off the field and them.


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## Judgemental (17 October 2011)

Generally speaking Joint Masters should not involve themsleves in such matters.

You should express your concerns to the Secretary, who will speak to the member of The Field concerned about their horse.

Masters should be worrying about the land they are hunting upon, the landlowners, the tenants etc, along with the hounds and the hunt staff.


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## Ditchjumper2 (17 October 2011)

Judgemental said:



			Generally speaking Joint Masters should not involve themsleves in such matters.

You should express your concerns to the Secretary, who will speak to the member of The Field concerned about their horse.

Masters should be worrying about the land they are hunting upon, the landlowners, the tenants etc, along with the hounds and the hunt staff.
		
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Quite agree!!


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## Orangehorse (17 October 2011)

Yes, I think it would be better from the Secretary (poor Secretary!).


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## Judgemental (17 October 2011)

There are huge number of do's and don't as a new Joint Master but as I am in advisory mode - (must be careful there are no Government Ministers posting -lol) I felt a few well chosen words might be helpful.

Whatever you do as a Master or Joint, be very careful about entertaining.

If you entertain one to dinner, you have to entertain the whole hunt, otherwise I guarantee you will offend those not invited. 

Best advice don't and make all the b...... entertain you!


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## LuckyRed (18 October 2011)

Thanks for the advice - maybe I'll take the cowards way out and ask the Hunt Secretary to have a word!  Or at least have a discussion with him to see what our hunt policy should be on matters like this - like most hunts we're not flush with cash and upsetting a paying member of the field, even if he only comes out with us a few times, is the loss of a fair amount of money


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## Judgemental (18 October 2011)

LuckyRed said:



			Thanks for the advice - maybe I'll take the cowards way out and ask the Hunt Secretary to have a word!  Or at least have a discussion with him to see what our hunt policy should be on matters like this - like most hunts we're not flush with cash and upsetting a paying member of the field, even if he only comes out with us a few times, is the loss of a fair amount of money
		
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LuckyRed it is not "the cowards way out". It is the correct way. You would significantly upset somebody on the subject matter if you were to approach them directly in your capacity as a Joint Master. 

The problem is in the domain of the secretary to correct, who should have already dealt with the matter long before it came to your attention.

You should be asking your secretary why they have not noted the problem.

Joint Masters indeed any Master in the singular should not be getting involved.

Anyway if you are a Joint Master why don't you know about these things?


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## Amymay (18 October 2011)

LuckyRed, I would be inclined to talk to your Joint Master colleague, and then perhaps pen a joint letter to this subscriber asking them to ensure their horses fitness before hunting it again.

Charges of broken fences fall back on the hunt - not the individual, so this subscriber could become an expensive liability.

As for Masters not getting involved in these things - why on earth not?  They'd soon send you off the hunting field for any form of bad behaviour - not the secretary.


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## Amymay (18 October 2011)

Judgemental said:



			Masters should be worrying about the land they are hunting upon, the landlowners, the tenants etc, along with the hounds and the hunt staff.
		
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I would be most upset if the Master was not concerned about me, the subscriber too.  For without me there is none of the above.


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## Herne (18 October 2011)

I agree with Judgemental...


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## Tharg (18 October 2011)

I agree with Amymay, are not JM not concerned with PR and safety of the field.


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## Herne (19 October 2011)

Because it is kinder for the Secretary to have a friendly word with someone in the first instance than it is for them to have an official repremand from the Master. That comes later for repeat offenders.


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## foxyroxy1 (19 October 2011)

We hunt quite regularly and only recently did my 9 year olds pony behave naughtily (pulling etc.) and our hunt master gave her loads of advice during the ride and after at the yard. He was lovely with it, not repremading at all just offering advice.
 I think it will depend on how you deliver the advice and whom you are delivering it to, whether it is you or the sec. Be tactful/cautious first time and if there is a need for  a second you could be more assertive.

 No easy way though....


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## Amymay (20 October 2011)

Herne said:



			Because it is kinder for the Secretary to have a friendly word with someone in the first instance than it is for them to have an official repremand from the Master. That comes later for repeat offenders.
		
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I haven't mentioned the word reprimand.


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## jessie7 (20 October 2011)

I think that sending a letter is too formal.
If the person rides how you describe, maybe they really just don't know that the horse is too unfit and tiring....
Someone could possibly offer advice to this person - I can't see why it can't be yourself, you are concerned and if it is done in a friendly manner (as it should be) then personally I can't see the harm.

I guess it largely depends on what your hunt is like. Our hunt is incredibly friendly and although we would all behave according to 'hunt ettiquette' everyone is very approachable and I would not be in the slightest bit offended if someone were to offer me advice.

If you were to approach this person next time you see them and say omething along the lines of:
"last time you were out I noticed that your horse seemed to be struggling with the pace and looked as though it was getting very tired and I am concerned about safety as this could endager yourself, your horse or another member of the field. When you feel your horse is getting tired it is best to call it a day and take it home. If you don't know the way back to the boxes please feel free to ask xxxxxxx etc etc......." 
Or as mentioned make the said person known to the secretaries and they can have a word, however I don't think it is fair to single someone out and make a big deal of something that they may not realise is a problem.


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## Herne (20 October 2011)

amymay said:



			I haven't mentioned the word reprimand.
		
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Indeed not. 

And many Masters have a quiet and encouraging word with members of the field about a particular subject without thinking or mentioning the word reprimand, only for that person to say to another "I've just had a b*ll*cking from the Master".

And, no, I am not implying that the Master was too heavy-handed or undiplomatic - I am saying that a not insignificant proportion of people are, for want of a better word, "intimidated" by being "advised" by the Master, no matter how kindly they are, and interpret any such advice as an official "telling off". For some, it brings back a school-days fear of being summoned to the headmaster's office.

For most it is not a problem, but for some it is, so a round-about method of imparting the information in a more informal way through the Secretary is often the best way to go.


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## eatmoremincepies (21 October 2011)

Surely an informal chat at the time from anyone senior and responsible in the hunt, without standing on ceremony.   If I were the "offender" I would hate to think that I had not been told at the time that something was amiss.  Have we lost the skill of conversation in the 21st century??  Letters as a first approach seem very formal and more likely to cause a fuss . .


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## tractor (27 October 2011)

As others have said, I think this falls into the remit of the Secretary - the Masters have enough to do. 

If this was our hunt (of which I'm the Secretary), I would probably mention it to one of the Masters then if they thought it was appropriate I'd have a word - perhaps something along the lines of "were his legs OK after last time, my horse got tired after that long run too" - a kind of ice breaker, not hostile and most people are sensible enough to take a hint. 

Not easy, but having seen some nasty falls and horrid injuries to horses, if it needs saying then say it.


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## doodleberry (27 October 2011)

perhaps you could try making a bit of a speech at the meet when the offender is out that way you are speaking to everyone and hopefully this person will take note ? then if nothing happens you can have a quiet word .i would think its more of a welfare issue too and no hunt needs a welfare case attached to them? does this person have a groom or do they do the horse themselves? if they have a groom maybe you could speak to them?? difficult situation but some people who just ride have no idea what their horse should or shouldn't be doing sad but true!


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## Amymay (28 October 2011)

OP - what did you do????


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## PortwayPaddy (28 October 2011)

amymay said:



			OP - what did you do????
		
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Whatever it was, I hope it was dealt with as the OP's Opening Meet is Sunday (Bloodhounds).

Paddy


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## LuckyRed (28 October 2011)

I havent seen him since (and it was following another hunt when I saw the horse looking so tired) but have talked with both secretary and Master so we're ready to speak with him if necessary.  He's not a subscriber and doesn't come regularly so it's just a case of being ready - it may be that both the horse and rider will be fitter by the time he comes along again...


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## Judgemental (28 October 2011)

LuckyRed said:



			I havent seen him since (and it was following another hunt when I saw the horse looking so tired) but have talked with both secretary and Master so we're ready to speak with him if necessary.  He's not a subscriber and doesn't come regularly so it's just a case of being ready - it may be that both the horse and rider will be fitter by the time he comes along again...
		
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I take we are talking about the Berks and Bucks 

Has it not occured to you that perhaps the person concerned might be a member of this forum?


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