# Uninsured with ulcers, what are my options..



## robthecob (31 January 2013)

I have a mate that we suspect has ulcers, she is uninsured due to being LOU on other issues..

I have managed the ulcers over the last couple of years by careful feeding ad lib hay etc.. However recently we had a spell of box rest due to some swelling on legs which turned out to be mudfever/circulatory but the vet feared suspensory... So we did the box rest and I stupidly switched her feed at the same time as I was worried I was feeding too much protein and that was what caused the legs to swell. The change in routine / feed seems to have flared up the stomach issues to the point of the mare humping / standing on her back legs when I put my leg on to go forward.

I managed the ulcers in the past with Ron fields ulcer ex but it is for management rather than a treatment. I will say though the difference was large enough for us to think there are definately ulcers but without peaking inside we obviously do not know to what extent.... But is scoping worth it when I know that Gastroguard really isn't an option due to £ or should I say ££££ any ideas anyone?


----------



## millitiger (31 January 2013)

Perhaps google the Abler products.

I know people on here won't recommend them as you need to import without a prescription but the product is the same active ingredient as Gastroguard as opposed to herb remedies etc you can buy over here.

I would scope and then see where to go from there as you may need antibiotics as well to shift the ulcers.


----------



## Frozen Hoof Boots (31 January 2013)

Lookup RiteTrac by KERX.  It's distributed by Saracen.  My horse was scoped and had ulcers.  Was treated on Gastrogard and treated for hind gut ulcers.  But still wasn't right.  Put him on RiteTrac and within 24hours, no more girthiness, moodiness, stamping, kicking, swishing tail and dragging hind toes.  Amazing.  I tried Coligone powder and Feedmark Ulcercalm previous to that.  I wish I'd tried the RiteTrac before I'd had him scoped and paid all that money for Gastrogard.


----------



## maggiesmum (31 January 2013)

I actually disagree that scoping is worth it, theres a high percentage of horses that have hindgut ulcers rather than or as well as gastric ulcers and scoping can't show those, and Gastrogard (or generic) omeprazole won't treat hindgut ulcers anyway. 

Ask the vet for a course of ranitidine, its not expensive (I think I paid approx £300) and treats both gastric and hindgut ulcers.

This video shows the pressure points to check for ulcers..

http://www.forageplus.com/forageplusequineulcers.html


----------



## philamena (31 January 2013)

maggiesmum said:



			I actually disagree that scoping is worth it, theres a high percentage of horses that have hindgut ulcers rather than or as well as gastric ulcers and scoping can't show those, and Gastrogard (or generic) omeprazole won't treat hindgut ulcers anyway. 

Ask the vet for a course of ranitidine, its not expensive (I think I paid approx £300) and treats both gastric and hindgut ulcers.

This video shows the pressure points to check for ulcers..

http://www.forageplus.com/forageplusequineulcers.html

Click to expand...

Agree and aware of this re the hind gut (have dealt with it!) but still believe in lots of cases scoping's worth it from a financial / confidence of treatment point of view. I think it's brilliant if one course of ranitidine has sorted issues front and back, as it were, but equally it's not so straightforward with lots of horses. Gastric ulcers and hind gut discomfort / ulceration are actually two different but related conditions which - if you can't sort in one fell swoop - I think we need to be *prepared* to tackle separately. Ranitidine certainly sounds like it's worked for some, but also hasn't for others. 

I see scoping as a useful tool, an opportunity to begin the process of elimination... For example, in clearing gastric ulcers (and being able to see from a scope that they're clear) you are then better able to pinpoint and explore remaining discomfort or symptoms knowing that that elements is removed from the equation. For example, it turned out that some of my horse's girthiness and sensitivity around the stomach area (as opposed to gut) remained even though she scoped clear after treatment. It turned out to be muscular... but had we not scoped I'd have been thinking it was still ulcers and spending money trying to get it sorted, while getting to the real issue was actually being delayed. Equally, some horses may need the two issues to be treated separately, ie they may need gastrogard and antibiotics as the only way to get the stubborn gastric ones sorted, leaving us then to address the issues in the hind gut. 

I guess I'm saying there's more than one way to skin a cat and we're all doing our best  but I can easily see how in a not-so-straightforward case you could really easily end up spending a fortune in trying to avoid scoping when using it as a way to eliminate a variable might actually help you get the often complex issues understood more quickly / cheaply in the long run.


----------



## tullulahjay (1 February 2013)

Hi Guys,

My boy was diagnosed with Ulcers back in Sept with the help of this wondeful forum. 

There are a few things people fail to mention here, ulcers can lead to colic if not carefully monitored. So ideally prevention is better than cure. 

I understand that some of you feel that scoping may not detect it. However there are other reasons too. My boy show slight discolour from scope but nothing that indicated major. BUT a a lump just before stomach intestine was detected and a biopsy was taking from it and it confirmed he had gastritous. Which indictated it was a gut issue. 

I had the worry that if he didnt have ulcers my insurance company wouldnt cover the bill so i did a lot of research. My horse was sent to rossdale and with everything was 150.0 + VAT

I can honestly say that it was all well worth it my horse is a completely different horse. However it amazes me that everyone seems to think that these supplements cure ulcers they dont only Gastroguard will do it. After that it is about very very careful feeding regime but without all the lotion and potion. As well as much turnout as possible to reduce the stress levels. 

80% of competition horses suffer with Ulcers and some do not even indicate the classic symptoms. 

A horse can produce up to a litre and half of acid in an hour!!

Alot of people dont realise that a majority of feed companies claim that they have a "free from" range so alot of of people take the assumption that it will be ok for a horse that suffers from Ulcers. In fact people need to really look a the label. The majority of these feed have a high amount of starch in them as well as protein. Which isnt good.  Why do I know this as I was one of them!! I am still amazed that some people will still give speedi beet or unmollased sugar beet to their horses with ulcers. There claim is there horse wont eat it otherwise.. Let me tell you MINT is a good way to encourage your horse to eat. 

The one thing that I struggled with was my boy coughed really easily on hay despite being saoked it was tough because I had to find a haylage that was low in protein. I gave up in the end and I found a neirghbour who made there own hay and guess what no cough!! ;-)


In the wild the horse naturally grazed and didnt have accessed to processed food. So really we shouldnt be giving our horses these types of feed. Now my horse events and does affiliated dressage. He does just fine.  

Now I know my horse struggled on a natural diet at the begining but you know what we all do when we start a diet but after a few weeks we start to feel good so you do have to be patient. 

I feed my horse Healthy Tummy by Dengie (lots of it) and allen and page fast fibre. as well as a very small amount of corn oil a day. Dried Mint He gets three feeds a day as well as a scoop of chaff 15 minutes before ridden work or travelling this helps to buff the stomach. 

Occassionally electrolytes in his water if he had hard work. 

The vet told me to give him a mug full a day but this upset him. But the reason behind this is the oil is suppose to line there stomach. 

He gets 6 hours of turnout a day which does help alot as well as adlib hay. My horse is 16.3hh.

All I can say is keep it natural as possible can be. Best of luck with your horse, do keep us posted on how you get on.


----------



## Goldenstar (1 February 2013)

tullulahjay said:



			Hi Guys,

My boy was diagnosed with Ulcers back in Sept with the help of this wondeful forum. 

There are a few things people fail to mention here, ulcers can lead to colic if not carefully monitored. So ideally prevention is better than cure. 

I understand that some of you feel that scoping may not detect it. However there are other reasons too. My boy show slight discolour from scope but nothing that indicated major. BUT a a lump just before stomach intestine was detected and a biopsy was taking from it and it confirmed he had gastritous. Which indictated it was a gut issue. 

I had the worry that if he didnt have ulcers my insurance company wouldnt cover the bill so i did a lot of research. My horse was sent to rossdale and with everything was 150.0 + VAT

I can honestly say that it was all well worth it my horse is a completely different horse. However it amazes me that everyone seems to think that these supplements cure ulcers they dont only Gastroguard will do it. After that it is about very very careful feeding regime but without all the lotion and potion. As well as much turnout as possible to reduce the stress levels. 

80% of competition horses suffer with Ulcers and some do not even indicate the classic symptoms. 

A horse can produce up to a litre and half of acid in an hour!!

Alot of people dont realise that a majority of feed companies claim that they have a "free from" range so alot of of people take the assumption that it will be ok for a horse that suffers from Ulcers. In fact people need to really look a the label. The majority of these feed have a high amount of starch in them as well as protein. Which isnt good.  Why do I know this as I was one of them!! I am still amazed that some people will still give speedi beet or unmollased sugar beet to their horses with ulcers. There claim is there horse wont eat it otherwise.. Let me tell you MINT is a good way to encourage your horse to eat. 

The one thing that I struggled with was my boy coughed really easily on hay despite being saoked it was tough because I had to find a haylage that was low in protein. I gave up in the end and I found a neirghbour who made there own hay and guess what no cough!! ;-)


In the wild the horse naturally grazed and didnt have accessed to processed food. So really we shouldnt be giving our horses these types of feed. Now my horse events and does affiliated dressage. He does just fine.  

Now I know my horse struggled on a natural diet at the begining but you know what we all do when we start a diet but after a few weeks we start to feel good so you do have to be patient. 

I feed my horse Healthy Tummy by Dengie (lots of it) and allen and page fast fibre. as well as a very small amount of corn oil a day. Dried Mint He gets three feeds a day as well as a scoop of chaff 15 minutes before ridden work or travelling this helps to buff the stomach. 

Occassionally electrolytes in his water if he had hard work. 

The vet told me to give him a mug full a day but this upset him. But the reason behind this is the oil is suppose to line there stomach. 

He gets 6 hours of turnout a day which does help alot as well as adlib hay. My horse is 16.3hh.

All I can say is keep it natural as possible can be. Best of luck with your horse, do keep us posted on how you get on.
		
Click to expand...

Serious question why is speedibeet not ok for ulcer horses and fast fibre ok ?


----------



## tullulahjay (1 February 2013)

I have speedi beet on the brain.

Sugar beet that was supposed to be. 

I use fast fibre as you can give as much as you like to a horse as a hay replacer.


----------



## philamena (1 February 2013)

There's some very useful stuff in that post, Tullullahjay, especially the 'read the labels' bit!! We made my mare's diet ulcer friendly and then had to go even further and be completely ruthless and now she gets the kind of no-fun food you'd originally think was for a laminitc 12.2! Couple of things: interested to know why your vet told you to include electrolytes? I thought they were a no-no for ulcer-prone horses? Not criticising, just genuinely interested as we seem to learn new things all the time. 

(And take care with Fast Fibre as a hay replacer: they market it as such and you could do so from a startch-fibre-protein point of view, BUT on large amounts you could apparently overdose them on selenium which is cumulative and potentially dangerous...)


----------



## Goldenstar (1 February 2013)

philamena said:



			There's some very useful stuff in that post, Tullullahjay, especially the 'read the labels' bit!! We made my mare's diet ulcer friendly and then had to go even further and be completely ruthless and now she gets the kind of no-fun food you'd originally think was for a laminitc 12.2! Couple of things: interested to know why your vet told you to include electrolytes? I thought they were a no-no for ulcer-prone horses? Not criticising, just genuinely interested as we seem to learn new things all the time. 

(And take care with Fast Fibre as a hay replacer: they market it as such and you could do so from a startch-fibre-protein point of view, BUT on large amounts you could apparently overdose them on selenium which is cumulative and potentially dangerous...)
		
Click to expand...

This is exactly why I will never give FF I just don't understand how it's ok to feed wildly variable amounts of a feed with vits and minerals added.
On electrolytes horses who have had ulcers still sweat and still need salts i add in small quanties over the day , the one thing I avoid at all costs is cider vinegar can you imagine eating that with stomach ulcers.


----------



## pipper (1 February 2013)

Genuine question? is unmollassed sugar beet no good for ulcers??
thanks x


----------



## Goldenstar (1 February 2013)

pipper said:



			Genuine question? is unmollassed sugar beet no good for ulcers??
thanks x
		
Click to expand...

It should be fine it's low sugar and not too high in protein too much might not be great for the hind gut as standard sugar beet is not but it was one of the main ingredients in the bagged food my specialist vet recommended for the first horse I looked after who was scoped and had ulcers.


----------



## tullulahjay (1 February 2013)

Hello  

The electrolytes is purely what goldenstar has quoted they lose salts. I am still VERY careful with it though. 

I have been looking to replace fast fibre as again I still think that the starch level could be better, but it is lower than many,  but he seems very well with it and happy so like the saying goes if it aint broke dont fix it. I use to feed power and performance and that was a BIG mistake. But since the snow and heavy rain has kicked in I have had to keep him in a bit more so just been giving him loaads of readigrass and take the fast fibre out as I dont want him getting all gassy on me  

He does like his mint I must say. 

I am no expert but when I use to give my horse unmollased SB it still didnt agree with him. But this was before he was diagnosed so I would say no but that this  is based on my experienced and not by anything scientific etc as I had no need to look into it further as I dont use it no more  

I also forgot to say in my original post, THIS IS actually quiet interesting. My aunt puts a special magentic stone in her dogs water and every time the dogs  always went for that particular bowl. The stone apparently neutrulises the ph  level in the water. Which is very interesting as she has now suggested to me that I put "Harry" on it. So if anyone has any experience in this please let me know


----------



## robthecob (1 February 2013)

Wow thank you everyone  some really interesting reading there...

I have not heard of ranitidine being used before? Is there any research into it? £300 is still a lot of money especially if I end up having to do an alternative treatment aswell... I can't remember who said it but I think they are right in saying they need treating rather than managing. I think I have been kidding my self in thinking I have had them under control, I definately have made things better but too have such an unhappy horse again it is obvious the gut is still very unstable. I can't imagine what it would be like to have a constantly acidic belly  

I don't feed garlic for the same reason someone mentioned not feeding cider vinegar.. My mare is barefoot so I have / had before I changed it a fairly stripped back diet. When I panicked I was causing the swollen legs I switched the Alfa A molasses free for hifi light (not molasses free) I now think this combined with the stress of box rest may be what's caused the extreme reaction. I have stopped the hifi now and am just feeding my fast fibre with suppliments. 

Does anyone know of wormers are ok with ulcer horses? I feel my mares guts are so sensitive at the moment that worming would be a bad idea.. The yard dictates the worming and it is due soon..

I'm still left a bit unsure with what the best plan of action is. It seems like scoping might be a good place to start. Then at least we know what we are dealing with.. Has anyone scoped at home? Is it best just to take them in for 24 hours so they can do the starvation. 

I still don't think I would be able to afford Gastroguard  I would love to but isn't it multiple 000's for the treatment, obviously plus 2 scopes at least. Does anyone have any stories of using the imported active ingredient of Gastroguard as a treatment rather than management? Would the vets support this.


----------



## robthecob (1 February 2013)

Also does anyone else know anything about the link between mudfever and ulcers... My trimmer who is a fountain of knowledge commented a while back that mudfever and sarcoids are basically indications that the gut / hind gut not working as well as they should. I've not heard this before, my horse in the last year has had sarcoids treated and also suffered mudfever this winter


----------



## Goldenstar (1 February 2013)

Ranitidine is better known as Zantac its exactly rather same as the indigestion tablets for humans but of course you have to feed a lot more .
It's my understanding that only gastroguard will clear up the ulcers but other things will help control the symptoms and alleviate the discomfort in ulcer prone horses .
It's a shame that you had to stop the Alfa a mollasses free as its excellent because it's a good calcium source as is speedibeet. Calcium is an excellent buffer for the acid.
What symptoms is your horse showing and how is he being managed?
What is his daily roultine and when and how does he show symptoms ?


----------



## Goldenstar (1 February 2013)

Meanlt to add I think the discomfort of mud fever might well. make ulcers worse , and sarcoids they are caused  by a herpes virus ( like human cold sores ) and often flare up when the horse is stressed or has its immunity suppressed the very time ulcers might be most likely to be acting up.


----------



## YasandCrystal (1 February 2013)

I found this website blog really helpful

http://www.lunatunesfreestyles.com/horse_ulcers.htm


----------



## robthecob (2 February 2013)

I have fed protexin for the last 6 months at least. I fed the ulcerex for about 3 months of that and then stopped it as I saw enough improvement to think I had it all under control which I think to some extent I did. It was my understanding that it was not for feeding constantly..

The main problem this time was I didn't have the foresight to feed the ulcerex or up the protexin to the higher dose when I had to keep her in on box rest  then I changed the feed quickly and that combined with the change of stress levels from staying in must be what has caused the very sore stomach  

I am back now to feeding the 2 scoops of protexin recommended for use during times of stress and 30ml of Ulcer ex a day


----------



## Frozen Hoof Boots (2 February 2013)

As said earlier posting I've had astounding results with http://www.kerx.com/products/RiteTrac/ £90 for 30 days.


----------



## whizzer (3 February 2013)

I've stopped feeding glucosamine to my ulcer prone horse as I read in several places that it shouldn't be fed if they've had ulcers.


----------



## tullulahjay (3 February 2013)

Just out of curiosity if ur feeding linseed which is natural anti flam as well as being for great supplying horses why also give gluosomine it's just seems a waste of money plus all the mixes of supplements can't be doing the horse any good. I see that rite trac does seem to be a winner as an alternative to gastroguard.  

I'd also recommend the purple alfa a too as someone said alfa a is good for them. 

Also someone mentioned about worming I have my horse at my own yard and after my boy was diagnosed with ulcers I just wanted to go natural as poss so I've not wormed him as I religiously poo pick every where and every 3 months I get a worm count and analysis done by a lab which my vet sends me labels for and so far it's actually saved me money and I've not needed to worm. Horses with these worming programs are getting far to immune to these wormers so they dont work anyway. So that wad another thing I changed


----------



## scots (3 February 2013)

Where do u get ulcerex from? Looks like only USA ???


----------



## philamena (3 February 2013)

Sorry, when I'm saying Ulcerex I mean UL30REX which is from Ron Field's Nutrition, available online. I'm assuming that's what the OP means too....? They now do an UL30REX-Plus which is apparently better able to reach the hind gut with the good stuff. It's not the most convincing website in the world but seems to be a labour of love for the nutritionist who makes it rather than a massive money-making thing (unlike some of the other ulcer treatments ahem!)


----------



## robthecob (3 February 2013)

I have always got mine from my trimmer but this time I needed it in a rush so I had to go through http://www.ronfieldsnutrition.co.uk/


----------



## cosmicblue (4 February 2013)

Really interesting thread!
Can I just point out that you do need to worm ulcer horses, even if you worm count you will need to cover for tapeworm once a year and also for encysted small red worm as your worm counts cannot see these! 
Personally keep our ulcer mare on coligone or have resorted to gaviscon when coligone is out of stock. Works just as well lol.


----------



## Dab (4 February 2013)

Frozen Hoof Boots said:



			As said earlier posting I've had astounding results with http://www.kerx.com/products/RiteTrac/ £90 for 30 days.
		
Click to expand...

are you still feeding this product? or do you feed something else now to help guard against the ulcers returning?

also do you know what are the main ingredients? i had a quick look but couldnt find that info. amny thanks.


----------



## tullulahjay (4 February 2013)

I have my horses farces analysis so it's more in depth than a worm count and she has to.d me it will pick up all types of worm issues 

Love my vet she is Great. Loving this thread so interesting


----------



## cosmicblue (4 February 2013)

The only way to tell if a horse has tapeworm is by blood test. I don't believe any feacal worm tests cover this. 
Would also be interested to find out the ingredients of rite track


----------



## HappyHooves (26 February 2013)

Anyone know whats in Rite Track? Hate it when its not mentioned anywhere.

Gastro guard has omeprazole as its active ingredient 'it is a proton pump inhibitor' which suppresses gastric acid secretion by a specific biochemical pathway. Thats why you feed it on an empty stomach and this gives the ulcer healing time.

gastro plus says its cinnamon, ginger, schisandra. licorice and turmeric along with various vits, provits, and amino acids.


----------



## dianchi (26 February 2013)

HappyHooves said:



			Anyone know whats in Rite Track? Hate it when its not mentioned anywhere.

Gastro guard has omeprazole as its active ingredient 'it is a proton pump inhibitor' which suppresses gastric acid secretion by a specific biochemical pathway. Thats why you feed it on an empty stomach and this gives the ulcer healing time.

gastro plus says its cinnamon, ginger, schisandra. licorice and turmeric along with various vits, provits, and amino acids.
		
Click to expand...

I would call saracens and ask them, they are always v helpful!


----------



## Hen (26 February 2013)

HappyHooves said:



			Anyone know whats in Rite Track? Hate it when its not mentioned anywhere.

Gastro guard has omeprazole as its active ingredient 'it is a proton pump inhibitor' which suppresses gastric acid secretion by a specific biochemical pathway. Thats why you feed it on an empty stomach and this gives the ulcer healing time.

gastro plus says its cinnamon, ginger, schisandra. licorice and turmeric along with various vits, provits, and amino acids.
		
Click to expand...

RiteTrac includes protected sodium bicarbonate and is designed to protect the entire digestive tract rather than to treat ulcers specifically; I can't remember the composition right off the top of my head but I had a great explanation from KER when I queried whether I should be using RiteTrac or Equishure, extract as follows: "it is a blend of antacids, coating agents and EquiShure. The antacids and coating agents are aimed at buffering the acid in the stomach in the prevention (but not treatment) of gastric ulcers, while the coating agents are designed to provide a protective coating on any existing gastric ulcers, preventing excess acid exposure and allowing the ulcers to heal."


----------



## vanrim (13 November 2015)

I would love to know who your trimmer is. He seems genuinely more clued up than most vets.




robthecob said:



			Also does anyone else know anything about the link between mudfever and ulcers... My trimmer who is a fountain of knowledge commented a while back that mudfever and sarcoids are basically indications that the gut / hind gut not working as well as they should. I've not heard this before, my horse in the last year has had sarcoids treated and also suffered mudfever this winter
		
Click to expand...


----------



## brucea (14 November 2015)

One of mine had ulcers

We did not use Omeprazole, I have Barretts oesophagus myself and used omeprazole and it's really not a great drug. It's not that effective and causes gut pain

We used (on me and horse) a mix of chamomile, meadowsweet, mallow and slippery elm powder.


----------



## Milkmaid (14 November 2015)

I manage my (uninsured)pony with ulcers on a (now) permanent dose of Ranitidine (as advised by the vet) after I weaned him off and the symptoms/colic returned along with a £500 vet bill for two visits in a week with blood tests. 
Costs about 60p a day.
He also is completely intolerant to all cereals, beet, molasses & alfalfa (makes him footy) and won't eat large amounts of linseed. He's a complete feeding nightmare. 
Thank goodness for Agrobs & Equijewel.
He has arthritic changes, as is often the case with ulcer horses, they go hand in hand :-/ He can't have bute else he's crook within days so we have to use other pain meds if he needs it.


----------

