# Someone reported my horse to the rspca!



## EmmaB (17 April 2014)

I'm furious! Totally shocked to find out that someone reported me for my horse being underweight today, I just can't think who it could have been! I haven't fallen out with anyone near by, we are on a small private yard surrounded by other private fields. There is a track which people walk up near the field but the way the field is split up, you would really have to look hard to see the horses, depending where about they were standing. 

I'm assuming it was a walker who, when looking at my 18 year old tb x arab, compared him to the cobs he shares a field with!! I'm gutted though, it's hard enough as it is to get weight on the old boy, plus he's ridden most days working fairly hard. I'm trying to build up his topline, I think that is what makes him look 'skinny' but it takes so long  

Does he really look that bad?!












This is xc from 2 days ago! Doubt he would take me round a course if he was that starved!!


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## skewbaldmillie (17 April 2014)

poor you your horse is clearly just a fine horse


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## twiggy2 (17 April 2014)

from the 2 photos of him unridden I would say yes he looks pretty poor, also that possibly you need to build his top line without a rider and then get a saddle fitted as he is very hollow behind the withers indicating a poor fitting saddle. I would certainly not be working him fairly hard or doing cross country on him


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## Meowy Catkin (17 April 2014)

He is too skinny. You can see too many ribs and the dip on his topline just before his pelvis should really be filled in. What's his anus like, is it sunk in at all? I wouldn't have him in hard work, or even medium work until his condition improved.

I do understand how hard it can be to get weight on horses. I've really struggled this winter with one of mine.


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## Moomin1 (17 April 2014)

You admit yourself that he looks skinny.  So what's the issue?  If someone else who doesn't know the background and circumstances as to why he may look like that has become concerned, then good on them - it's good that people do report these things as that is how proper welfare cases are found.

I wouldn't take it to heart - it may be someone who isn't horsey, who sees a horse, who by your own admission, doesn't look in fantastic body condition (I am not saying he looks bad - he just doesn't look completely up to weight) and they are just concerned.  No harm done in an officer checking.


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## risky business (17 April 2014)

He does look quite poor in his non ridden photos. I don't think id have him in hard work or taking him xc until he picked up a bit.


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## Cheshire Chestnut (17 April 2014)

Honestly, I think he's a little bit on the thin side. I really do sympathise though as I know how hard it it to keep weight on working older TB's and even if they lose the smallest amount (that wouldn't be an issue on a cobbier build), it really shows. 

If I were you, I'd feed him a bit more non-heating feed and hay and maybe cut his work down a tad just until he puts some more weight on. 15 mins on the lunge 3 times a week in a outline does wonders for top-line instead of hours of other work. 

I'm guessing the person reporting you isn't a horsey person at all and I think you are just unfortunate in that respect x


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## MerrySherryRider (17 April 2014)

Don't worry, I'm sure the officer will see that you are aware that he looks thin and are trying to do something about it.

 Maybe some time off and chill out time on the grass will help him get some more condition on.


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## EmmaB (18 April 2014)

I know he doesn't look the greatest but I don't think he looks a rescue case! 

He's had physio, saddle fitter and vet out recently and yes all agree he needs more topline but i can't get it to happen overnight. He's ridden probably 5 times a week, about 40mins - 1 hr hacks, don't have a school. I have a place to lunge/long rein though so might start doing that to try and build it up without a rider. 

He's on 3 scoops Alfa oil and 2 scoops ready mash per day, anyone got any tips for what else I could try to get some weight on?


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## Spring Feather (18 April 2014)

Sorry, but I also think he is way too thin (and I own no cobs).


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## showpony (18 April 2014)

He does look quite ribby and sunken. Not saying a welfare case but I'd defo get more condition on him and topline built before going xc again.


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## Spring Feather (18 April 2014)

EmmaB said:



			He's on 3 scoops Alfa oil and 2 scoops ready mash per day, anyone got any tips for what else I could try to get some weight on?
		
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Can't advise you on the feed as your feed is different from what we get over here, but if he were mine I'd be feeding him 4 or 5 times a day until he builds himself up at bit.


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## EmmaB (18 April 2014)

Also I tried giving him time off over winter and he just stiffened up, even living out 24/7, he's much better having regular exercise though I guess if I replace riding with lunging it would help.


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## EmmaB (18 April 2014)

Spring Feather said:



			Can't advise you on the feed as your feed is different from what we get over here, but if he were mine I'd be feeding him 4 or 5 times a day until he builds himself up at bit.
		
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Thanks, guess I'm just not feeding enough then though it feels like a lot. He never needed a lot in his younger days so I guess the old age is just hitting him now


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## Spring Feather (18 April 2014)

EmmaB said:



			Also I tried giving him time off over winter and he just stiffened up, even living out 24/7, he's much better having regular exercise though I guess if I replace riding with lunging it would help.
		
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If he were mine, he wouldn't be doing anything; not riding and not lunging.  I'd be feeding him frequent meals throughout the day and putting him in a hilly field where he can get natural exercise to build up the muscles, and a good feed to feed the muscles.


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## Cheshire Chestnut (18 April 2014)

EmmaB said:



			Also I tried giving him time off over winter and he just stiffened up, even living out 24/7, he's much better having regular exercise though I guess if I replace riding with lunging it would help.
		
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I wouldn't give him time off really, like you said - he will stiffen up. Plus he will need the work if he's getting more feed (vicious circle I know!). I would just cut his work down quite a bit. Short (15 mins max) but precise lunge sessions did my TB mare the world of good when I first got her. I'm on the work computer but otherwise I would have attached some before/after pics of the difference it made. I lunged her in a roller and made sure she was in a relaxed outline, even added some raised poles sometimes too to build her bottom up. 

I would also maybe give him two feeds a day. Good luck


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## bumper (18 April 2014)

Honestly, he's too thin. I'm a person who does not like excess weight on a horse at all by the way. Ribs are too prominent, as is the pelvis. I appreciate how hard it is to keep weight on some horses, but I would advise you (as others have said) to stop working him so hard, and concentrate on putting some condition on him. TBH I wouldn't be riding that for a while. You probably shouldn't be furious.


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## Spring Feather (18 April 2014)

EmmaB said:



			Thanks, guess I'm just not feeding enough then though it feels like a lot. He never needed a lot in his younger days so I guess the old age is just hitting him now 

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My 37 year old has struggled a little over this winter, which has been very long, incredibly cold and tough this year.  I am feeding him 4lbs of feed 4 times a day to keep his weight at an acceptable level.  He certainly won't be ridden until he's back up to his normal summer weight (and he is not as thin as your horse btw).


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## Honey08 (18 April 2014)

I'd be inclined to not take so much coat off so he doesn't use calories keeping warm.  Plus slow his work down, he doesn't have to be doing fast work to keep moving.. 

I have the other issue - two fatties!  Shame I can't send you some of their flab!


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## EmmaB (18 April 2014)

bumper said:



			Honestly, he's too thin. I'm a person who does not like excess weight on a horse at all by the way. Ribs are too prominent, as is the pelvis. I appreciate how hard it is to keep weight on some horses, but I would advise you (as others have said) to stop working him so hard, and concentrate on putting some condition on him. TBH I wouldn't be riding that for a while. You probably shouldn't be furious.
		
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I don't feel I'm working him way too hard though. Yes we went xc but only schooling. Our hacks aren't exactly major hard work, in the first post I just meant he was ridden regularly, not worked super hard.


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## Auslander (18 April 2014)

Agree that he is too thin, and really shouldn't be going XC until he's picked up a little.
Is he getting any hay/haylage in the field? If that's the grazing he's on (2nd pic), there isn't enough grass for a thin horse. He isn't going to gain weight if there's nothing for him to eat while he's out in the field. You can shovel in hard feed til the cows come home, but it won't help if he's not filling himself up with grass,hay or haylage

I genuinely do sympathise - I've had real problems with my two old ladies this winter - vet has come to both at different times to make sure they were ok, and diagnosed near heart failure in one, and temporo-mandibular joint arthritis in the other.  I've got their weight stabilised by feeding Equijewel and ad lib haylage  (and by ad lib, I mean they never, ever run out - they have 2 heston bale sections of haylage each overnight, and I put haylage out in the field 3 or 4 times a day. it has meant that my two boys have come out of winter a bit fat, but i'd rather they are porky and the girls are still alive!


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## EmmaB (18 April 2014)

Cheshire Chestnut said:



			I wouldn't give him time off really, like you said - he will stiffen up. Plus he will need the work if he's getting more feed (vicious circle I know!). I would just cut his work down quite a bit. Short (15 mins max) but precise lunge sessions did my TB mare the world of good when I first got her. I'm on the work computer but otherwise I would have attached some before/after pics of the difference it made. I lunged her in a roller and made sure she was in a relaxed outline, even added some raised poles sometimes too to build her bottom up. 

I would also maybe give him two feeds a day. Good luck 

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Thankyou, would def like to see pics when you can 

I'll concentrate on feeding him up for now then, as well as the lunging instead of riding for a while and see I I can get him looking better by the next couple of weeks!

Re clip yes good point, though he has been well rugged at all times, next yr I'll leave him some hair!


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## EmmaB (18 April 2014)

Auslander said:



			Agree that he is too thin, and really shouldn't be going XC until he's picked up a little.
Is he getting any hay/haylage in the field? If that's the grazing he's on (2nd pic), there isn't enough grass for a thin horse. He isn't going to gain weight if there's nothing for him to eat while he's out in the field. You can shovel in hard feed til the cows come home, but it won't help if he's not filling himself up with grass,hay or haylage

I genuinely do sympathise - I've had real problems with my two old ladies this winter - vet has come to both at different times to make sure they were ok, and diagnosed near heart failure in one, and temporo-mandibular joint arthritis in the other.  I've got their weight stabilised by feeding Equijewel and ad lib haylage  (and by ad lib, I mean they never, ever run out - they have 2 heston bale sections of haylage each overnight, and I put haylage out in the field 3 or 4 times a day. it has meant that my two boys have come out of winter a bit fat, but i'd rather they are porky and the girls are still alive!
		
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He has hay overnight in the field but I can ask if we can put a big bale in there because no the grazing isn't great atm, though should be on better grass soon when they rotate.


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## Peregrine Falcon (18 April 2014)

I can see why they did make a call.  IMO he is on the light side.  I would cut back on his work, up his feed and get some good grass into him too.  

I took care of an elderly ex-racer some years ago.  Soaked barley rings worked wonders for him but some foods are not suitable for all.  

Don't take it to heart but see it as an opportunity to improve things.  Hope all goes well.


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## windand rain (18 April 2014)

He is too thin but I guess he needs some good grass and a lot of small feeds of alfalfa oil and speedibeet about a scoop of each and I would include micronised linseed or copra or some other oil based food and as much hay as he will eat. It is very hard to balance work and feed in old horses but like many I have more trouble keeping the weight off so am going back in history for this information. He needs rugging very well too so he is never cold too


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## bonny (18 April 2014)

It would help a lot if he wasn't clipped out especially as he lives out, I imagine that's where the problem lies.


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## flirtygerty (18 April 2014)

My 20yr old TB looks a bit like a hat rack just now, he gets 3 walk only hacks a week, two feeds of easybeet and two sessions of in hand grazing a day, I have him in a LW rug (unclipped), he is slowly putting the weight back on, XC is hard and your lad does look a bit lean but having him clipped won't help, my lad lives out 24/7 and is a poor doer, but give him a month and he will gleam with good health and be well covered but not fat


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## EmmaB (18 April 2014)

windand rain said:



			He is too thin but I guess he needs some good grass and a lot of small feeds of alfalfa oil and speedibeet about a scoop of each and I would include micronised linseed or copra or some other oil based food and as much hay as he will eat. It is very hard to balance work and feed in old horses but like many I have more trouble keeping the weight off so am going back in history for this information. He needs rugging very well too so he is never cold too
		
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Thanks, have heard about the micronised linseed before so will look into that. He is always rugged up well, he only had his rug off for a while in the last couple of days when it was really nice so he could feel the sun as he's been covered up all winter! He's back in his full neck now so should be warm enough


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## honetpot (18 April 2014)

I too have had an old TB and they get thin doing nothing. Looking at the amount of work he is doing he is not getting enough calories, http://www.dengie.com/horse-feeds/alfa-a/alfa-a-oil/  three scoops is no where near enough, I think a bucket is about a kilo and he should be having at least a bucket and depending on what sort of ready mash he is getting probably more. I would try some linseed, coolstance copra, or Baileys outshine and the spring grass should help as well.
 I think lunging is actually harder work and will not be good for an older horses joints or feet, so I would hack but cut out the fast work. Try not to worry about the RSPCA he's just a bit thin but obviously healthy for his age, better that than he be way too fat and ready to go off his feet.


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## EmmaB (18 April 2014)

honetpot said:



			I too have had an old TB and they get thin doing nothing. Looking at the amount of work he is doing he is not getting enough calories, http://www.dengie.com/horse-feeds/alfa-a/alfa-a-oil/  three scoops is no where near enough, I think a bucket is about a kilo and he should be having at least a bucket and depending on what sort of ready mash he is getting probably more. I would try some linseed, coolstance copra, or Baileys outshine and the spring grass should help as well.
 I think lunging is actually harder work and will not be good for an older horses joints or feet, so I would hack but cut out the fast work. Try not to worry about the RSPCA he's just a bit thin but obviously healthy for his age, better that than he be way too fat and ready to go off his feet.
		
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Hm thanks for the link, right if I up him to 5 scoops Alfa oil per day, and up the ready mash (it's the extra version) then hopefully I will see some results! I can long rein too so doesn't have to be just lunging  

thanks, it just gets me down that people must be thinking I don't look after him when I try my hardest and put all my money and effort into him. I wanted him to be fit to keep him going but he also he looses the weight so easily over winter, its so hard when you see them everyday too, you don't notice the condition slipping and suddenly I'm having the rspca called out and it's a slap in the face that he's gone too skinny!


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## EstherYoung (18 April 2014)

It's not the end of the earth to have them a bit light this time of year, as any time now the grass will go 'ka-boom' and you will have the opposite problem. I would be more worried about him looking light if we were the other end of winter. 

Personally, I'd be feeding hay in the field, because there isn't enough in the grass yet. Good old fashioned strapping will help too. Remember that ready mash is soaked, so if your two scoops per day is soaked volume, it's only the equivalent of just over half a scoop of mix dry weight. Our 15h arabs get that amount when they're not in work. Weigh his hay and his feed, so that you know what he's actually getting - the old fashioned calculations of 2-2.5% of bodyweight (mostly fibre) do work, and when you're working out his 2.5%, do it for the weight you want him to be, not the weight he is. Oh and next time you clip him in the winter, leave his bum on, and go for a blanket, a chaser or a high trace. It will keep him warmer and give him a bit of natural protection under his saddle patch.


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## twiggy2 (18 April 2014)

if he stiffens up then I would walk him out in hand (on hills would be best) for 10-15 mins twice daily and build it up as he puts on weight, if he looks like that without adlib hay then give adlib hay all winter as a starting point next winter.


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## Amymay (18 April 2014)

I'd continue to work him quietly,  but would ride, not lunge.

He needs some decent grazing, a re think on the hard feed and, until better grass is available, more hay. It's also absolute madness to clip out a horse that is living out and is generally a poor doer.

Whilst I agree he's not a rescue case, a serious management re think is needed.


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## slumdog (18 April 2014)

You obviously care about him or you wouldn't have posted here. I have two tbs so I know what it's like keeping their weight on. One of them (the one I rescued if you look at my previous posts) is a naturally skinny horse anyway which doesn't help! Baileys number 1 worked wonders for me, mixed with Alfa a oil and sugarbeet, I'd give him 3 or 4 small feeds a day (if you can) and also has he been wormed and had his teeth done? That can make a huge difference.


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## NZJenny (18 April 2014)

Mine live out all year around too - is normal here, but in the winter when the grass is no good, they get ad lib meadow hay.  I just get my property owner to put one of the big round bales in the paddock and they just munch.  I do clip (one of mine works all year around), but just trace clipped.  Plus I clip quite early so by the time the really cold weather hits (June/July for us) he has about 50% growth back again.  He is 16 (Arabian) this year and I have just started to notice that a big weekend will have more of an effect on him weight wise than it did a few years ago.  I also note that your boy has a bit of a pot belly, which quite often means that they are not getting enough protein - think starving children in Africa.  If he is happy in his work, IMO there is no need to stop, but he definitely needs more to eat.


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## MrsMozart (18 April 2014)

Too thin sweetie.

Try Saracen's Re-leve, and Eqi-jewel. They're brilliant at putting weight on nice and steady without fizz. Fed in small quantities so good for horses who become bored of hard feed. Can you feed haylage? If the grass is poor I'd definitely want him on ad lib hay until the grass comes through/field is rotated.

Re exercise: if he stiffens up without it then thirty minute walking only hacks on flat ground would be my choice.


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## Elsiecat (18 April 2014)

Yes he is underweight but no he certainly isn't a rescue case! I've struggled with my middle age TB this winter. Try not to get too upset, I'm sure they were well meaning.


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## Doormouse (18 April 2014)

Really can't recommend linseed enough, very reasonable price as a feed and really puts the weight on.

Perhaps for next winter you might be better just clipping his tummy if he is living out.


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## charlie76 (18 April 2014)

On our horses that tend to be a bit light coming out of winter we use a feed supplement called succeed. It is amazing. Tranforms them in about a week. Its not cheap but you only usually need one tub to make a huge difference.


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## cptrayes (18 April 2014)

It's it possible he needs worming - his belly would suggest he might?


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## Patterdale (18 April 2014)

EmmaB said:



			He's on 3 scoops Alfa oil and 2 scoops ready mash per day, anyone got any tips for what else I could try to get some weight on?
		
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He won't put much weight on with that. 

Personally I'd be feeding 3 feeds a day of barley, sugar beet, and a balancer like Blue Chip. Just keep it to simple non heating conditioning feeds.


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## EstherYoung (18 April 2014)

Ps readymash is a really good fattening and easy to digest feed (ours do rather too well on it if we're not careful) but, as I say, you do need to measure it by dry weight and not soaked volume.

Pps He doesn't look like a neglect case, he just looks a bit light. The RSPCA aren't going to take any action. Talk to them, put your mind at rest. If anything they'll just be happy you've got the matter in hand.

Ppps 18 isn't old


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## ILuvCowparsely (18 April 2014)

EmmaB said:



			I'm furious! Totally shocked to find out that someone reported me for my horse being underweight today, I just can't think who it could have been! I haven't fallen out with anyone near by, we are on a small private yard surrounded by other private fields. There is a track which people walk up near the field but the way the field is split up, you would really have to look hard to see the horses, depending where about they were standing. 

I'm assuming it was a walker who, when looking at my 18 year old tb x arab, compared him to the cobs he shares a field with!! I'm gutted though, it's hard enough as it is to get weight on the old boy, plus he's ridden most days working fairly hard. I'm trying to build up his topline, I think that is what makes him look 'skinny' but it takes so long  

Does he really look that bad?!












This is xc from 2 days ago! Doubt he would take me round a course if he was that starved!! 





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 he is on the lean side but certainly not in need  of reporting to RSPCA (not that they do anything)

 Some horses do get a little lean when they work hard, my first mare was hard to put weight on and always burnt it off when ridden.  Contact D&H about what your feeding him, they are very helpful.

 As for the report,  I very much doubt it will come to anything since he is with a loving owner  who may just need a little help with his diet.   Dog walks are notorious for reporting a horse who, usually know nothing about the horses circumstances  or horses for that matter.  Or likewise neighbouring yard do it out of spite or not minding their own business.


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## Highlands (18 April 2014)

EmmaB said:



			Hm thanks for the link, right if I up him to 5 scoops Alfa oil per day, and up the ready mash (it's the extra version) then hopefully I will see some results! I can long rein too so doesn't have to be just lunging  

thanks, it just gets me down that people must be thinking I don't look after him when I try my hardest and put all my money and effort into him. I wanted him to be fit to keep him going but he also he looses the weight so easily over winter, its so hard when you see them everyday too, you don't notice the condition slipping and suddenly I'm having the rspca called out and it's a slap in the face that he's gone too skinny!
		
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Dont up the ready mash or feed too much as if he is worked less he will tie up. Get a decent balancer e.g. Blue chip or top spec and use that otherwise too much to cope with. Some good hay ledge and your away. Agree re linseed if copra.


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## TigerTail (18 April 2014)

He needs to be on Thunderbooks Basemix and mature oats ASAP! ITs really good nutritious food, not full of fillers or by products so like feeding us oily fish and veg rather than mac donalds and crisps. Its made of linseed, bran and a whole host of other goodies.

Please have a look on their website for some of the before and afters - I kept a 20 yr old going living out in -15 one winter on it and she looked better on that in winter than she did in the summer!

http://thunderbrook.co.uk

There is no point in feeding MASSIVE feeds as the stomach is designed to trickle graze and most will past out without being digested!


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## Dry Rot (18 April 2014)

Another who agrees he's a bit lean but I'd rather have a lean horse than one of the poor wretched obese creatures one sees in the show ring! It's April, FGS, what they used to call "the hungry month". BUT I would have been feeding hay in the field and increasing the ration if there is none left the next day and decreasing if there is much left.

Also, if you get a visit from the RSPCA, think yourself lucky that you have people concerned enough to report their worries to the authorities and an inspector who does his job. If it goes pear shaped and you get an adverse report, I'd fight fire with fire and report myself to the WHW who have inspectors who DO know about horses!

Sadly, Britain has entered a period where any animal not so obese that if it rolled on it's back like a  pregnant ewe and was not be unable to right itself is considered too thin. It is generally easier to put weight on a healthy lean animal than take off one that is too fat so unless this horse has some underlying health issues I wouldn't worry too much. I had a very interesting chat with a former Royal Veterinary College lecturer on this very subject which just confirmed my own thoughts. You might be surprised how quickly Dr Grass solves the problem.


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## Busybusybusy (18 April 2014)

I'm another who would recommend linseed & copra - fed this to my very skinny TB & he's done really well on it.
From this












To this


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## Amymay (18 April 2014)

Lovely BBB.


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## AmieeT (18 April 2014)

Yes I think he's on the skinny side,  but as others have said I think it's far more important that you are actively trying to build up his weight. The RSPCA should know that upon talking to you and hopefully if anythingwill be able to give advice.

Have you spoken to your vet? My friends 20yo was on the skinny side last year- vet suggested Myoplast pearls- its for eventers and horses in hard work but worked miracles on my friends TB.

Ax


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## cattysmith (18 April 2014)

The grass is coming through and in a month from now you'll spend the next 5 months worrying that he's too fat! He's fairly lean, but that's not exactly uncommon for this time of year. I wouldn't be lunging him too often to be honest, I think he's much better off being ridden. Far from an RSPCA case. Speedybeat and oils are great for bulking up. I also use ready mash extra on my oldies.


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## cptrayes (18 April 2014)

Does anyone else feel that it's a VERY dangerous time of year to suggest giving a horse a lot more food and a lot less exercise?

OP, I think you should wait for the spring grass and see what he's like at the end of May. If he has enough energy to do a cross country fence of that size, there's not a whole lot wrong with him.


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## gingernut81 (18 April 2014)

cptrayes said:



			Does anyone else feel that it's a VERY dangerous time of year to suggest giving a horse a lot more food and a lot less exercise?

OP, I think you should wait for the spring grass and see what he's like at the end of May. If he has enough energy to do a cross country fence of that size, there's not a whole lot wrong with him.
		
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I agree with this.  I know a TB (ex-racer) who always went back in winter despite feeding him up but as soon as the spring grass came in he was a completely different animal.


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## Horsewithsocks (18 April 2014)

He looks like my 21 year old horse who used to be overweight without careful management, he is now very difficult to keep weight on due to Cushings - have you had yours tested he could have it if he is 18


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## Tiddlypom (18 April 2014)

Ditto the above re having him tested for Cushing's. The poor top line and dropped belly are typical Cushing's indicators. Worth ruling it in or out IMHO.

Also ditto re how tricky it is to keep oldies looking well, but agree that he is poor but not a 'welfare' case. Good luck with him, you seem to care a lot about him and hopefully just need to modify his management to keep him well.

It often takes an outsiders opinion to shake an owner up, as when you see them everyday these changes creep up, and may not be noticed. Don't take it too much to heart.


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## teabiscuit (18 April 2014)

Good quality hay ad lib is the best way to get weight on them apart from Dr Green.
If he's a bit stiff, have you tried riaflex? My 18 year old swears by it  thanks Janet George for the recommendation.
Your horse is no welfare case, but as others have said, a bit light. 
Also as others have said, it's gearing up to summer and grass.


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## paddy555 (18 April 2014)

Horsewithsocks said:



			He looks like my 21 year old horse who used to be overweight without careful management, he is now very difficult to keep weight on due to Cushings - have you had yours tested he could have it if he is 18
		
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absolutely this. He looks poor but that is not for the lack of trying on your part. Mine looked worse and we tried everything until we got to prascend (the cushings treatment) Treatment, good protein and now he is on a diet. If it is cushings you can try building topline forever but it won't work until the problem is brought under control. With any "poor" horse, especially older ones, having done the teeth and worming thing I would test for cushings. There also seem to be quite a few arabs with cushings. 

Another vote for copra and micronised linseed. If they turn their noses up at copra you can introduce it gradually with a little coarse mix and they soon get there.


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## Pinkvboots (18 April 2014)

cptrayes said:



			Does anyone else feel that it's a VERY dangerous time of year to suggest giving a horse a lot more food and a lot less exercise?

OP, I think you should wait for the spring grass and see what he's like at the end of May. If he has enough energy to do a cross country fence of that size, there's not a whole lot wrong with him.
		
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I think this is a good point, just feed him as much hay or haylage as he will eat, even if you have to bring him in for part of the day to have it, linseed is great for putting on weight if you wanted to add something extra but if one off mine drop off I up the hay intake first and it usually is all they need to gain a bit of weight, if he gets stiff not ridden just take him for a light hack it should be enough, I really do think his not a neglect case so try not to worry, let us know how you get on its good to see them progress.


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## Auslander (18 April 2014)

bonny said:



			It would help a lot if he wasn't clipped out especially as he lives out, I imagine that's where the problem lies.
		
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Hmmm - my boys (20 and 17) are fully clipped, and have lived out all winter. as long as they are well rugged and have plenty of forage, they shouldn't lose weight. If that were the case, mine wouldn't look like this at the moment...


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## Tnavas (18 April 2014)

NZJenny said:



			I also note that your boy has a bit of a pot belly, which quite often means that they are not getting enough protein - think starving children in Africa.  If he is happy in his work, IMO there is no need to stop, but he definitely needs more to eat.
		
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Pot belly is not a sign of protein deficiency, it is either a sign of parasite infestation or a high fibre diet.
From Rutgers, Equine Science Centre. http://esc.rutgers.edu/publications/factsheets_nutrition/FS038.htm
Protein is used in muscle development during growth or exercise. The main building blocks of protein are amino acids. Soybean meal and alfalfa are good sources of protein that can be easily added to the diet. Second and third cutting alfalfa can be 25 to 30% protein and can greatly impact the total dietary protein. Most adult horses only require 8 to 10% protein in the ration; however, higher protein is important for lactating mares and young growing foals.

Swelling of the abdomen and legs. The abdomen is swollen because of lack of strength of the muscles of the abdomen. This causes the contents of the abdomen to bulge out making the abdomen swollen. Legs are swollen due to edema. This is caused due to lack of vital nutrients. These two symptoms are seen in children with severe malnutrition.

OP your horse is very light and to be honest I would not be working him at the moment. Have you had a chiropractor to him as he shows signs of muscle wastage either side of his tail. Try adding oil to his food, corn oil is best. Introduce very slowly, by the spoonful as some horses don't like the texture. This is a far cheaper way of feeding than Equijewel. You might also consider feeding Copra, soak before feeding and again introduce slowly. I find Peppermint Oil a good method of disguising new tastes.


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## shadowboy (18 April 2014)

To be fair on the OP he's poor but not a welfare case. A lot of people have struggled with grass this year because of the weather and there are numerous horses coming out of winter looking similar. A bit of spring grass and some decent hay on the ground in the meantime along with some vits and mins with three small feeds a day will work. We picked up a TB this time last year who was 17 and looked the same- we didn't pack loads of feed into him that would have been dangerous to be honest. We did however under vets instructions work him as the vet said as long as he didn't break a sweat it was good for his joints. He looked amazing by the beginning of June!


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## Meowy Catkin (18 April 2014)

EmmaB said:



			He has hay overnight in the field but I can ask if we can put a big bale in there because no the grazing isn't great atm, though should be on better grass soon when they rotate.
		
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I think that this explains why he is light. He would look a lot better if he'd had ad lib hay all the time this winter. There isn't any grass in the field that's shown in the photo. Get him on ad lib hay now.

CPT is right, you are going to have to walk the tricky line between feeding him so that his condition improves and keeping him from getting laminitis.


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## shadowboy (18 April 2014)

cptrayes said:



			Does anyone else feel that it's a VERY dangerous time of year to suggest giving a horse a lot more food and a lot less exercise?

OP, I think you should wait for the spring grass and see what he's like at the end of May. If he has enough energy to do a cross country fence of that size, there's not a whole lot wrong with him.
		
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Exactly! Over feeding the system could pose more problems


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## SillySausage (18 April 2014)

I've not read all of the replies but I am the owner of a neurotic TB who up until recently has looked awful. I've never had such a problem with any of my horses, but this mare in particular 'stresses' a lot of weight off.

Two weeks ago I added a small amount of barley rings to her feeds that she gets twice daily and the difference has been incredible!!! Her behaviour has not changed at all and she has a good covering now.

Note also that she is on ad lib hay as we have only started turning back out today due to fields wrecked in the floods.


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## paulineh (18 April 2014)

twiggy2 said:



			from the 2 photos of him unridden I would say yes he looks pretty poor, also that possibly you need to build his top line without a rider and then get a saddle fitted as he is very hollow behind the withers indicating a poor fitting saddle. I would certainly not be working him fairly hard or doing cross country on him
		
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Rubbish. He looks fine. Is he clipped because that will always make the look thinner. He looks FIT and better than a pile of overweight fat horses.


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## Moomin1 (18 April 2014)

paulineh said:



			Rubbish. He looks fine. Is he clipped because that will always make the look thinner. He looks FIT and better than a pile of overweight fat horses.
		
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Are you serious?  The horse doesn't look fine. It's got poor top line and is underweight. He does not look fit.


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## Meowy Catkin (18 April 2014)

He looks poor, not fit and lean like a racehorse. I'd still love to know if his anus is sunken or not.

ETA - my gelding will look a bit ribby when he's just had a growth spurt and I have talked to the Vet about this. She was very happy with his condition and showed me how to weight score properly, doing the horse in three sections. Although he scored lower on his middle section, both his front end and back end were scoring in the healthy range. When the three scores were averaged, that also came in the healthy range. I think that the OP should get her Vet to teach her how to weight score, it's very useful to know. Plus with my mare (who had stressed a lot of weight earlier this year), I use a weight tape to keep an eye on her weight. This might also be helpful for the OP in future once she knows what his ideal weight is she can quickly check that he's keeping there.


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## Fides (18 April 2014)

You can see his thigh bones and his hips are very sunken (ignoring the ribs as mine are ribby). I wouldn't feed more cereals but definitely more fibre and oil.

The university of Edinburgh to a free online nutrition course a couple of times a year - I've found it invaluable and now look at feed a totally different way.


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## Apercrumbie (18 April 2014)

paulineh said:



			Rubbish. He looks fine. Is he clipped because that will always make the look thinner. He looks FIT and better than a pile of overweight fat horses.
		
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While I agree that it is far better to have an underweight horse than an overweight horse in many ways, I really disagree that this horse looks fine.  It's the sticking out hipbones that worry me.  Now this isn't a complete disaster, other posters have identified ways to get a bit more on him and this is the right side of winter to be lean.  However, the first pictures do not scream "fit and healthy" to me.  No one on this thread is suggesting he needs to be fat.  This forum is very anti-obesity and is very good at identifying the slightly overweight horses where the owner can't always see.  

OP - most of us with ageing tbs will have been here at some point to some extent.  No one is saying that it's easy to keep them up to weight over winter.  Personally, there is nothing as good as spring grass for weight (as my two fatties know) so I would get him moved onto better grazing asap and take it from there.  In the meantime, I wouldn't drastically change his hard feed apart from maybe adding something like linseed but make sure he has constant access to hay.  It also may be worth a cushings test at his next visit.  Good luck and try not to be angry about being reported - it's frustrating but it means that someone does care.


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## EmmaB (18 April 2014)

Thankyou everyone for the encouraging replies, and the tips about a different feeds. I knew he needed more weight on but having the rspca called was just a bit of a nasty shock.

Cptrayes yes he feels extremely well in himself which is why I didn't think he was that bad, I thought well he's old and coming out of winter and we don't have great grass yet.

You make a good point about suddenly shoving more food into him, so I'm thinking my plan should be to get the adlib hay sorted first of all and gradually increase his feed. Then when the grass (finally!!) comes through I can reevaluate! 

What I'm definitley going to make sure this year is that he is well going into winter and to keep ontop of it because once he starts slipping it's so hard to catch back up! 

I'll leave this thread now as I have a plan of action...I'll update in a couple of weeks!


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## Goldenstar (18 April 2014)

You should not be furious the horse is too thin .
If he's not getting enough bulk because no hay is in the field you must take steps to up his intake do calorie rich fibre .
I think at this time of year I would be cautious of giving to much bucket type food my first thought is that you should consider feeding him a food formulated for a veteran I certainly think you should consider this.
However if he's short of bulk you must immediately fix this if you can get him into a situation where forage is constantly available my choice would for him at  haylage .
If you can't get him in a field with forage all the time he will have to be stabled part of the day for feeding .
I would feed a good veteran mix twice a day mixed with speedibeet and some Alfa a oil I would give about two kilos a day to start .
If in two weeks of add lib forage or haylage  part of the day and two feeds he's not gaining weight  I would involve the vet .
Using a weight tape will give you a good guide of what's going on but if he where mine I would be popping him down to the vets to get weighed 
I certainly would be doing any fast type work for a while as he's 18 I would consider gentle walking exercise for a half hour a few times a week if he has any age related conditions that mean he needs to kept ticking over .
I was a welfare officer my advice from you from that side would be what's happened to you is the system working properly and I think you should seriously consider a vet visit and get some advise which of course you will follow .
If someone else calls the horse in your can say I have had the vet the said .....


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## Booboos (18 April 2014)

He's not a welfare case but I would be concerned about the lack of muscle. He has a severe lack of top line and back end muscle which doesn't make sense if he is hacked 5 times a week. He would have to be literally starving to lose so much muscle without an underlying problem. Did the vet not have any thoughts on this? Did he not do any bloods, or worm count?

For example, here is my horse who was fed bucketloads of hard feed and ad lib haylage plus grass but still had leptospirosis and muscle wastage from poisoning so looked awful (same horse as signature for comparison):


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## Fides (18 April 2014)

Booboos said:








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But you can't see you horses thigh bone and the withers have a covering, unlike in the OP...


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## hayinamanger (18 April 2014)

He's very underweight. I would not be expecting him to go XC at this weight.

If he were mine, I'd put him on Dodson & Horrell Suregrow, it's youngstock feed, but also vey good for putting weight on horses like this.  Bailey's no 4 Topline cubes are also very good for weight gain without fizz.


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## EstherYoung (18 April 2014)

Good luck getting the hay sorted - that will likely do the trick. Then it's just a question of getting prepared for next winter come autumn. The issue will be then that the cobs he's out with will need a different feeding regime.


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## Goldenstar (18 April 2014)

Booboos said:



			He's not a welfare case but I would be concerned about the lack of muscle. He has a severe lack of top line and back end muscle which doesn't make sense if he is hacked 5 times a week. He would have to be literally starving to lose so much muscle without an underlying problem. Did the vet not have any thoughts on this? Did he not do any bloods, or worm count?

For example, here is my horse who was fed bucketloads of hard feed and ad lib haylage plus grass but still had leptospirosis and muscle wastage from poisoning so looked awful (same horse as signature for comparison):






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He is a horse who a MOP was right to be concerned about so yes in one sense he is a welfare case .
He is however from the photos an advise and follow up case , defiantly not  a removal .


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## southerncomfort (18 April 2014)

cptrayes said:



			Does anyone else feel that it's a VERY dangerous time of year to suggest giving a horse a lot more food and a lot less exercise?

OP, I think you should wait for the spring grass and see what he's like at the end of May. If he has enough energy to do a cross country fence of that size, there's not a whole lot wrong with him.
		
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Totally agree with this.  Yes he's on the lean side but personally if he's going to be having less exercise (and I would probably stick to slow hacks for the next couple of months or so) then I'd be thinking along the lines of ad lib hay/haylage for the time being and seeing how he gets on with that first.

Try not to be too upset.  It's annoying that they didn't speak to you first but they probably thought they were doing the right thing.

x


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## Nugget La Poneh (18 April 2014)

I would be testing for EPSM as well as cushings - if the bum was covered then no-one would say he is light, just fit. The bum has serious muscle wastage that doesn't match the rest of his top line.

In which case you needs to be cutting back on the carbs and pumping him full of fat (oils) and Vit E (and adequate selenium).


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## Wagtail (18 April 2014)

I like horses to be slightly lean but with topline muscle. Your horse looks too thin to me. But what concerns me is how hollow he is either side of his spine, right the way along, even on his rump. He also has a pot belly. Has he been regularly wormed? For encysted red worm and tapeworm as well as round worm?


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## ILuvCowparsely (18 April 2014)

cptrayes said:



			Does anyone else feel that it's a VERY dangerous time of year to suggest giving a horse a lot more food and a lot less exercise?

OP, I think you should wait for the spring grass and see what he's like at the end of May. If he has enough energy to do a cross country fence of that size, there's not a whole lot wrong with him.
		
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 I agree with you  which as mentioned below in my thread reasons why. 

There are so many diets  and products mentioned here which people use for their horse and  they think it would be good  to suggest to OP  to use on their horse  There is no harm mentioning a particular feed which is used on their horse , but in the same breath this feed might not work for OP's and you end up with a bag of feed you cannot use for any number of reason's.  It can be very dicey  suggesting a diet to a horse you don't know or know the history or medical history.  They may be well meaning , but with so many new owners who are not clued up with nutrition in horses, would act on suggestions given here which *could* lead to problems like ( Horse gets to OTT for OP or colic or laminitis ) 

 This is why I suggested using a feed Specialist like D&H or Allen and Page - Baileys etc where they have people there who can give accurate or as damn near accurate suggestion which would help.

 For example  a year or so ago it was suggested by half a dozen here to put a members gelding on happy hoof.  She took the advice, it went ok for the first day but then the gelding started  blowing a gasket on it  threw her off  and being too frisky on it.  Told to take him off, he returned to normal within a few days.  


 Just for the record when this member phoned D&H  happy hoof is not one they suggested for her horse.

  I always ask the feed merchants now if I need to change my horses diet as I feel they know what is in their feeds and based on the information I give them, they have been right so far with their advice with supplements and diets.  
 I will never suggest an *actual* diet on here to a member, as I have no history of the horse and what it work program- experience of the owner is.


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## skint1 (18 April 2014)

southerncomfort said:



			Totally agree with this.  Yes he's on the lean side but personally if he's going to be having less exercise (and I would probably stick to slow hacks for the next couple of months or so) then I'd be thinking along the lines of ad lib hay/haylage for the time being and seeing how he gets on with that first.

Try not to be too upset.  It's annoying that they didn't speak to you first but they probably thought they were doing the right thing.

x
		
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I think this is good advice, I once made the mistake of feeding up an underweight TB (much more so than your horse) coming out of winter and into spring, it caused a lot of fizziness and fatness amongst other things. If I had it to again I would have done it through increasing the intake of good quality forage rather than through feeds


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## Auslander (18 April 2014)

cptrayes said:



			Does anyone else feel that it's a VERY dangerous time of year to suggest giving a horse a lot more food and a lot less exercise?
		
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Agree! Just as an example - our retired TB mare completely fell apart earlier this year. She has severe heart problems, and was having to work so hard to keep her heart pumping that everything else went to pot. Despite decent rugs, 2 feeds a day and ad-lib hay, she looked like this:






We changed her hard feed (to Equijewel - small quantities 4x per day), swapped her onto haylage, and she came in overnight to have a break from dragging herself round in the mud.A month later, she looked like this:







The grass has just started coming through, and she's gone from skinny but healthy looking, to this in the space of two weeks! Suspect I shall need to keep an eye on her waistline moving forward! It's magical stuff - spring grass!


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## Pearlsasinger (18 April 2014)

EmmaB said:



			I know he doesn't look the greatest but I don't think he looks a rescue case! 

He's had physio, saddle fitter and vet out recently and yes all agree he needs more topline but i can't get it to happen overnight. He's ridden probably 5 times a week, about 40mins - 1 hr hacks, don't have a school. I have a place to lunge/long rein though so might start doing that to try and build it up without a rider. 

He's on 3 scoops Alfa oil and 2 scoops ready mash per day, anyone got any tips for what else I could try to get some weight on?
		
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Soaked grassnuts and Speedibeet are good for putting weight on.  Whilst I doubt that I would have reported this horse, I do think his unridden photos show a very poor horse, who definitely should NOT be being worked hard enough to compete at X-country, until he has put on more condition and muscle.


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## Equilibrium Ireland (18 April 2014)

I have a 19yo TB who came out of the winter with better topline than ever. Only on oats/alfalfa pellets/flax. Same with my 15yo TB mare that fell apart last winter. A friend has a 26yo TB that looks about 5. As she says it cost a fortune to have him looking as well.

The equi jewel is good stuff but flax/linseed is quite good too. This was the first year I could get a steady supply. I buy the whole seed and ground myself. Too expensive buying boutique supplies for 6. I would recommend those 2 things before extra hard feed. Agree with CP about the food in spring. 

Terri


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## Auslander (18 April 2014)

Equilibrium Ireland said:



			I have a 19yo TB who came out of the winter with better topline than ever. Only on oats/alfalfa pellets/flax. Same with my 15yo TB mare that fell apart last winter. A friend has a 26yo TB that looks about 5. As she says it cost a fortune to have him looking as well.

The equi jewel is good stuff but flax/linseed is quite good too. This was the first year I could get a steady supply. I buy the whole seed and ground myself. Too expensive buying boutique supplies for 6. I would recommend those 2 things before extra hard feed. Agree with CP about the food in spring. 

Terri
		
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Agree re boutique-ness! I feed linseed or copra when weight gain is required - but mine are big fat bullocks, so the need hasn't arisen. The old girl doesn't like linseed or copra, but she isn't mine, and has an owner who adores her, and spares no expense - so she got the posh stuff!


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## julie111 (18 April 2014)

Op, he isn't a welfare case, don't start pumping him full of hard feed, ad lib hay until the grass comes through. Nice photo and judging by how get is jumping he had plenty of energy


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## Goldenstar (18 April 2014)

southerncomfort said:



			Totally agree with this.  Yes he's on the lean side but personally if he's going to be having less exercise (and I would probably stick to slow hacks for the next couple of months or so) then I'd be thinking along the lines of ad lib hay/haylage for the time being and seeing how he gets on with that first.

Try not to be too upset.  It's annoying that they didn't speak to you first but they probably thought they were doing the right thing.

x
		
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They where doing the right thing .
If they where not horsy what else where they to do.
Footpaths where probably the source of just over fifty per cent of my calls.


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## kerilli (18 April 2014)

He doesn't look 'poor' to me, and he's a long way from an RSPCA case, imho. He looks a bit light and he looks very fit. That is a LOT better for him than looking obese and carrying an extra 50-100kgs. 
Putting weight on a tricky horse isn't easy, but with new grass coming through and the weather warming up (hopefully) he should pick up naturally, no? I wouldn't start stuffing him with high-energy feeds, for sure, if he were mine...


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## Templebar (18 April 2014)

OP In my opinion i disagree with cutting out the work you have already said he stiffens and this will only make it worse, plus feeding without work is only going to make them put weight on not good condition (ie muscle) so once you have the weight on you would then need to get fit from scratch again which will do him no good. I would just keep him ticking along, perhaps decrease the work a little and speak with an instructor about some good fitness work (a lot of hacking in walk on hills i would suggest) he will tell you when he begins to struggle and listen to him as you said he wouldn't go jumping like that if he didn't feel fit. If he gets too fizzy with the hacking then alternate some schooling work, long and low (think western) that will allow him to use his back and top line, and some jumping if he feels ok again encourage the true shape in the jump. 

For feeding perhaps try and speak to a nutritionist, but i have always been told barley does well in most forms they use a lot of that with show horses for condition (not that that is what you want to end up with). As others have said ad lib hay of good quality but not too green and change slowly from one to another. I would say from looking at him it is a muscle issue not a feeding issue so with better work he should improve and you said you are trying to improve this. 

I would also suggest learning to condition score or asking at your yard if anyone can and monitor condition probably weekly to be able to catch him going the other way before its too late and you get Laminitis.


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## happyclappy (18 April 2014)

don't worry, i have been reported as i am every winter. i welcomed them in as i have nothing to hide and they had to agree. joe public just don' know much about horses quite often.


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## Arizahn (18 April 2014)

Allen & Page Calm and Condition made a real difference for my little guy. It's basically unmollassed beet with linseed already added, and soaks in about fifteen minutes. He gets an alfalfa based chaff too for extra calories


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## STRIKER (18 April 2014)

worm, vit b, ad lib hay and reduce strength of work but continue with duration of work, more walk than trot.


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## Cazza525 (18 April 2014)

So he's coming out of winter 'light'. Give him a few days on grass he'll be right as rain. i'd personally rather a horse comes out of winter poor rather than fat! But i'm forever on lami watch!!


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## redriverrock (18 April 2014)

I have a TB who can be lean one day and fat the next and photos can be very deceiving but to me he looks seriously lacking on the topline and bloated in the belly. I havent read every reply so not sure if this has been suggested but has he been wormed lately? If he is in such hard work, fed correctly and wormed with a saddle that fits his topline should not be looking like this so something isnt right?


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## Orangehorse (18 April 2014)

I haven't read all the threads, but he does look a bit on the lean side.  Buy a bag of feed balancer, doesn't really matter which make.  You feed more with the cheaper ones.  That should make a difference as he will digest his other feed better and it will give him all the vitamins and trace elements he needs.


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## SO1 (18 April 2014)

Yes he is thin and maybe thinner in real life as photos can make them look fatter than they really are.

Main causes of being underweight are teeth need doing, worms or malnutrition. 

When was he last wormed and when where his teeth last done?

Is is difficult for you to know how much hay he is eating overnight as if he is sharing the hay with the cobs the cobs who can be greedy maybe gobbling up the hay so he does not get enough.

If you do not normally have problems with his weight and his management has not changed then I would also get the vet out to blood test him to make sure his weight loss is not caused by something more sinister. This is what I did when good doer pony lost a lot of weight - it turned out he had a tapeworm infestation which would not have got picked up on his normal worm counts. He had been wormed for tapeworm the recommended twice a year as well.

Since he has been wormed he has put on weight. He had three weeks off work and he is only 13.3 and he lives out. To get the weight back on I fed him split over 2 meals{dry weight} I kilo fast fibre. 1 kilo L mix. 400gs Blue chip original native. Oil and 200g of Egusin. He also has hay but tends to get full up/bored after about 2 slices of hay and wants to go back down the field again - though still has plenty of appetite for grass! I gradually built it up. The vet did not want him to have anything high in starch and sugar as he is a native pony and might have been at risk of laminitis if he suddenly had feeds high in sugar and starch. He is a good doer pony who normally would only have a handful of the L Mix to eat his supplement with, so I did have to feed him a lot extra including the hay and it took about a month for him to get back to a reasonable weight in order to be ridden again. During the time when he was very thin I was worried about him getting reported to the RSPCA so I kept a LW rug on him. 

You have a big horse who is probably normally a poor doer and in harder work than my pony was so I don't think you are feeding enough to get the weight back on. The alfalfa oil is conditioning but you are only feeding a kilo whereas you probably need to be feeding at least 2 kilos. Looking at the havens website you are not feeding the recommended amount of slobber mash either which would be about 4 kilos a day. This is based on your horse getting plenty of hay as well. If you are not feeding the RDA of the feeds your horse may be missing out and not getting enough vitamins and minerals which he might need to be better able to process his food.


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## Mudfukkle (18 April 2014)

risky business said:



			He does look quite poor in his non ridden photos. I don't think id have him in hard work or taking him xc until he picked up a bit.
		
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^^^ Agree with this.
You could try adding some micronised linseed and a good quality balancer like Blue Chip?

I'm sure nothing will come of the Inspector's visit, as he will see that he is taken care of and you are trying to put weight on. I too like to see them a bit thinner coming out of winter, but I wouldn't be doing hard work x


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## brighteyes (19 April 2014)

Age and breeding have much to do with this I expect.  Sometimes full clips and rugs don't cut it and just a few nights of feeling less cosy can take weight off.

I am not throwing my hands up in horror over his weight and agree with a Cushing's test, based purely on age (lack of top line and the 'rib', pot-bellied look _can_ be attributed to this).  Also, NOT to hurl feed at him without due consideration to his known behaviour and tolerances.  

He's not a young horse and management needs to take everything into consideration. Including age and possible disease.

A safe option to begin with is ad lib, good quality forage and possibly a balancer with vitamins.  Assess his work possibly, but don't panic and randomly stuff feed in to him just yet.

I have to ask have his teeth been checked...


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## fburton (19 April 2014)

kerilli said:



			He doesn't look 'poor' to me, and he's a long way from an RSPCA case, imho.
		
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What would be the appropriate response of an RSPCA officer if one came round to look at the horse?


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## skint1 (19 April 2014)

I think (though have no evidence to back this up) RSPCA may advise rather than sanction here, they'd probably advise a 5 day wormer, look at teeth, and more good quality forage/time on the spring grass.  Do they advise? Or maybe they would pass it on to the BHS, I have heard that they advise owners whose horses are perhaps feeling below par but not a welfare case


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## Goldenstar (19 April 2014)

fburton said:



			What would be the appropriate response of an RSPCA officer if one came round to look at the horse?
		
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To observe look around see if there's evidence of plenty food about get a feel for what's going ask question worming teeth etc then advise .
If the paddocks where bare advise add lib hay .
Probably would just advise the owner to seek advice from her vet.
Check back in a month if at all concerned .


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## EmmaB (19 April 2014)

He has not too long ago been wormed.

I spoke to the rspca last night they said they're going to come out in a month to have a look at him, they aren't majorly concerned.

Had hay and haylage delivered this morn so he's now in his own paddock with a massive pile of each, which will be topped up though the day and plenty for over night.

I'm gonna increase the Alfa oil but not the mash, and do lunge/longrein/hill work for next few weeks.


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## milesjess (19 April 2014)

I haven't read all the replies, but fair play to you taking on board the advice and doing what's best for him  

As others have said, he's a little on the thin side but not to the point of being neglected at all! 

You obviously look after and care for him a lot, I wouldn't take it too personally. 

After all we have just come out of winter too. 

When I had my boy he didn't winter great and was a little on the thin side. I just increased his feed and gave him ad lib hay and he soon put it back on. He wasn't as old as your boy but he too had to be exercised due to bone spavin otherwise he'd seize up.

I'd just increase feed but mainly just give him access to hay 24/7 and hack him until he starts to gain a bit of weight. 

He looks very much loved and you will get some good advice off here to help you and your boy. 

Good luck!


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## EmmaB (19 April 2014)

^thankyou 

I knew he looked thin but he always drops off in winter so I was waiting for the grass, but to be honest his age is showing more now, he used to get fat easily when I first had him, it seems like only the last couple of winters it's hit him harder than usual so I guess I just need to be more prepared from now on!


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## milesjess (19 April 2014)

Yeah it's a learning curve if nothing else and no damage has been done  
I'd rather my horse come out of winter looking on the thinner side then fat, because you know he'll increase weight etc over summer. 

The RSPCA will understand and I'm sure they'll be fully satisfied that your a responsible owner as doing your best for him.


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## Holidays_are_coming (19 April 2014)

Yes he is thin but not majorly so, my gelding is probably about the same now, I have struggled to get him to gain weight all winter. We have tried everything I have managed to get access to a weighbridge weekly 3 weeks ago he was 500kg it weirdly dropped to 495kg then this week he has gone up to 514kg,  he is a 16.2 warm blood im guessing once he has properly filled out he will be over 600kg. He is having spillers conditioning cubes as with the grass coming through I can only get a scoop or 2 in a day and this is the most concentrated I could find. I have dropped his work a little and am doing lots of long and low.  With the grass coming through  massively he is really blumeing.


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## Clodagh (19 April 2014)

EmmaB said:



			He has not too long ago been wormed.

I spoke to the rspca last night they said they're going to come out in a month to have a look at him, they aren't majorly concerned.

Had hay and haylage delivered this morn so he's now in his own paddock with a massive pile of each, which will be topped up though the day and plenty for over night.

I'm gonna increase the Alfa oil but not the mash, and do lunge/longrein/hill work for next few weeks.
		
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That sounds spot on, tbh I bet if you just carried on the same and just give him ad lib forage he will pick up nicely. The plus of only upping hay or haylage is they cut back eating it naturally as the grass improves, whereas with hard food they stuff it down whether they need it or not. Enjoy him!


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## dogatemysalad (19 April 2014)

Good luck with him, EmmaB. Things should get a bit easier for getting the condition on him now spring has sprung.


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## Bobbly (19 April 2014)

See my post about 'Topline under saddle' the link is really useful if you find the right video's


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## conniegirl (19 April 2014)

have only read the frist page so sorry if I'm repeating someone

He is too thin, I'd be horrified if I saw him at an event!
I've had a great many oldies and even the 32 yr olds had better weight and topline than your horse.

Up his hay, back off on the intensity of his work and perhaps add some hard feed if he wont go silly on it.

I will say though that as he is a veteran do NOT stop working him as he will stiffen up, but I'd be backing off on fast work and replacing it by good quality walk work, preferably in a corret outline up hills to build up his topline.

As far feeding goes, Coolstance is very good for putting on weight without horses going silly.


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## lastchancer (19 April 2014)

cptrayes said:



			Does anyone else feel that it's a VERY dangerous time of year to suggest giving a horse a lot more food and a lot less exercise?

OP, I think you should wait for the spring grass and see what he's like at the end of May. If he has enough energy to do a cross country fence of that size, there's not a whole lot wrong with him.
		
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Absolutely. OP's horse is 18yo for goodness sake, yes he could do with a little more flesh, which he will get with the spring grass. My old boy get arthritis in his hips, this is much worse if I don't keep him just under what would nowadays be considered an ideal weight. IE I don't let him get fat. He lives out 24/7 too, for the same reason, oh the cruelty..


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## happyclappy (19 April 2014)

remember - the rspca actually have very little powers and cannot remove a horse just because they want to. they must get veterinary reports and then police permission.


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## Goldenstar (19 April 2014)

happyclappy said:



			remember - the rspca actually have very little powers and cannot remove a horse just because they want to. they must get veterinary reports and then police permission.
		
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They don't need veterinary reports but in most circumstances they will have had a vet on site they do need the permission of the police but that's easy to get .
They just say we want to do x because of y and the police say that's fine do you need us to send someone .
OP please don't worry no one is going to remove your horse .
Just keep doing what your doing check the horse is gaining weight using a tape and I would advise speaking to your vet.
Return in a month is exactly what I would expect based on the photos you posted .


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## fburton (19 April 2014)

EmmaB said:



			I spoke to the rspca last night they said they're going to come out in a month to have a look at him, they aren't majorly concerned.
		
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Fantastic - that sounds very reasonable.

Good luck with your boy!


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## Marydoll (19 April 2014)

My 30 yo tbxhan was like a toast rack after a stroke where she stopped swallowing her food, she would just chew it up and spit it out, hardfeed and haylage, i thought she was a goner.
She is on Alfa a oil with a big scoop of baileys number 4, micronised 
Linseed  and outshine and she looks fantastic now
Id try your horse on baileys 4 and outshine


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## Copperpot (19 April 2014)

If only well meaning people would report the obese horse carrying lots of extra fat to the RSPCA! See plenty of them about. Yes your horse is thin but the grass will grown like mad soon and he will soon pick up. If he was mine I would just feed him as much haylage / hay as he can eat and stick to feeding him sensibly. They can only process so much feed a day. I have used Equijewel in the past with good results.


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## Moomin1 (19 April 2014)

Copperpot said:



			If only well meaning people would report the obese horse carrying lots of extra fat to the RSPCA! See plenty of them about. Yes your horse is thin but the grass will grown like mad soon and he will soon pick up. If he was mine I would just feed him as much haylage / hay as he can eat and stick to feeding him sensibly. They can only process so much feed a day. I have used Equijewel in the past with good results.
		
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They do!


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## Leo Walker (19 April 2014)

I just showed my OH the pics. Hes not horsey but hes used to being around horses and the said he was thin, and followed that up by saying you dont normally see their ribs or their hips sticking out in photos do you? So to the casual observer he is thin. Not sure hes worth of being a rescue case but he is underweight and I wouldn't be working him! The very basic rule of thumb is, calories out= calories burnt to maintain weight. So in your case Id be very lightly hacking him, but def nothing that constituted work


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## Goldenstar (19 April 2014)

It's mainly horsey people who report fat horses .
If a non horses person reports a horse it will be a thin one .
Or one not wearing a rug in the rain 
Or one unable to see because it's wearing a mask !
Or because it's in a small paddock and it's friends are in the big field .


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## Copperpot (19 April 2014)

Oh dear. I have one in a strip grazed small paddock, 2 who will be rug less in the rain tomorrow and I use fly masks. Am ripe for being reported


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## Tiddlypom (19 April 2014)

Copperpot said:



			Oh dear. I have one in a strip grazed small paddock, 2 who will be rug less in the rain tomorrow and I use fly masks. Am ripe for being reported 

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Just pop a grazing muzzle on one as well, and it's a cert .


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## Tnavas (20 April 2014)

Goldenstar said:



			It's mainly horsey people who report fat horses .
If a non horses person reports a horse it will be a thin one .
Or one not wearing a rug in the rain 
Or one unable to see because it's wearing a mask !
Or because it's in a small paddock and it's friends are in the big field .
		
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Or like mine, reported to SPCA because she was 'lying down and having difficulty breathing' - she was asleep and snoring loudly! Never driven to her paddock so fast in all my life to find her sunbathing!


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## The wife (20 April 2014)

I am just playing devils advocate here and OP i'm sorry I do think your fella is a little on the light side but perhaps we are becoming conditioned to seeing well covered and obese horses that as soon as one comes across an animal that is a little light it is unusual.   Remember in the wild if a horse came out of winter looking like this, it would be deemed to have wintered well! Just a little though...


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## TarrSteps (20 April 2014)

The wife said:



			I am just playing devils advocate here and OP i'm sorry I do think your fella is a little on the light side but perhaps we are becoming conditioned to seeing well covered and obese horses that as soon as one comes across an animal that is a little light it is unusual.   Remember in the wild if a horse came out of winter looking like this, it would be deemed to have wintered well! Just a little though...
		
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And recent studies suggest that fluctuations in weight serve a purpose that may go some way to preventing metabolic disease.


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## Daytona (20 April 2014)

I really struggled to get a 17hh WB gelding looking good, every bone poked out

I tried everything and was pumping over a £100 of feed a month into in 4 feeds a day

I tried linseed, copra, mixes, beets, chaff , equi jewel pretty much everything for weight gain on the market I tried over a 2 year period. He got ab lib forage , he got extra Alfa a blocks at night , you name he got it 

In the end I gave up on feed and work to make him look better and he went to a lovely long grass field for 2 months off to just eat grass and chill and he came back looking amazing.


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## Tnavas (20 April 2014)

What is your worming program like? Some years ago my TB spent a month with a friend while I was overseas, he came back from her rather light. I turned him out on good grazing but he didn't improve, so I had bloods done, came back that he had a massive loading of red worm. My vet suggested 'Bomb drenching' him. He was wormed with a wormer containing Ivermectin and Praziquontal once a week for three weeks. Within a couple of weeks he looked amazing. Prior to this he had been on a regular worming program and had had no condition problems. 

Now when I get a new horse on the place it is automatically bomb drenched.


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## Goldenstar (20 April 2014)

Tnavas said:



			Or like mine, reported to SPCA because she was 'lying down and having difficulty breathing' - she was asleep and snoring loudly! Never driven to her paddock so fast in all my life to find her sunbathing!
		
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Oh yes forgot that on the dead horses on sunny days.
My nearest neighbour got got by this just after she moved in rang me to I am so sorry but all your horses are dead .


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## FairyLights (20 April 2014)

OP your horse is too thin. He needs more food! Condition cubes up to the recommended amount on the bag and ad-lib hay.


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## blitznbobs (20 April 2014)

I was reported to the RSPCA once... They said I was starving my pony cos he was in a tiny little pen... I WAS trying to starve him unfortunately it wasn't working he was still obese... The RSPCA officer came round the situation was explained and I also tried to give them my vets phone number so he could explain further .., they didn't want it. 

It bothers me not a jot if someone reports me i can always explain why my horse is the way it is and what measures if needed I'm taking to correct the problem - I'd rather the public was vigilant and those real abuse/neglect cases were picked up because of it...

Blitz


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## mystiandsunny (20 April 2014)

Well, he's not an RSPCA case.  This time of year is hard - horses without thick coats/slow metabolisms get cold easily as there are huge fluctuations between night and day temps, so whatever rugs you put on, unless you can be there 4/5x a day, there will be some time when they are cold.  My rule is that if I can see the ribs at all, I feed up loads and don't ride until they disappear. 

Interesting looking at different forums' perceptions of weight though.  On another horsey forum I read, a horse whose ribs could clearly be seen through its winter coat, no fat at all on the shoulder, sunken tail, prominent hip bones, very scrawny neck - was described as, 'being allowed to come out of winter having dropped weight so as not to get lami in the spring.'  

I like mine to be 'just right' all year round - that's what grazing muzzles and hard feed are for, in my opinion!  Helps hugely with keeping them fit, with saddles that fit etc.


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## Tnavas (20 April 2014)

Mystiandsunny, it currently believed that it is good to allow laminitic prone horses/ponies to lose weight late winter.


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## samlf (20 April 2014)

Actually I don't think he looks too thin as such, I think he looks like there might be something going on with him causing the atrophy around topline and hindquarters.


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## Meowy Catkin (20 April 2014)

I don't have any problems with horses being healthy but lean coming out of winter, but there is a point where they become too thin. I guess different people have different ideas about where that point is.


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## EmmaB (20 April 2014)

Just to show what he's like when we have the good grass, here he is last summer:






And the year before that, when I was struggling to keep his weight down! I bet many people think he looks fine here but he was too fat.






That pic was 2 years ago age 16, when he used to live in at night over winter with no stiffness issues, so it shows how I think his age has hit him now because he can't stay in his stable at all now without being horribly stiff.


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## Wagtail (20 April 2014)

I am a firm believer that if a horse can get fat on grass, he can get fat without grass. Similarly, a horse that struggles to keep weight on in winter but can put it on in the Spring with the grass, is just not being fed enough in the winter. OP I am glad he is on ad lib hay and haylage now as I think that is the key.All the horses here are being fed regularly in the fields because the grass is not growing too well at present. I have far more difficulty keeping horses slim in the winter than I do in the summer because you can control the grazing in the summer but yet they will have something to nibble on at all times. In the winter, they tend to wolf down their haylage, even with small holed nets and it is difficult to control their intake without risking gastric ulcers.


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## EmmaB (20 April 2014)

I agree, I think my problem this year is this is the first year he has lived out so I don't think I gave him enough hay. But lesson learned, he's been given 3 bigs nets this morn, mix of hay and haylage. It helps that he's on his own now so I can see how much he's actually eating, last night he didn't eat all of his hay, and pooed on his haylage...hence is all in nets today!


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## Spring Feather (20 April 2014)

EmmaB said:



			Just to show what he's like when we have the good grass, here he is last summer:






And the year before that, when I was struggling to keep his weight down! I bet many people think he looks fine here but he was too fat.






That pic was 2 years ago age 16, when he used to live in at night over winter with no stiffness issues, so it shows how I think his age has hit him now because he can't stay in his stable at all now without being horribly stiff.
		
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In the last summer photo he looks perfect to me.  Too fat in the latter photo imo


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## EmmaB (20 April 2014)

Spring Feather said:



			In the last summer photo he looks perfect to me.  Too fat in the latter photo imo
		
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Exactly, he was too fat. But most people probably wouldn't have given him a second glance like that and wouldn't have called the rspca.


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## YasandCrystal (20 April 2014)

EmmaB may I suggest that you join the facebook Turmeric User Group - if your horse is stiff get him on turmeric, oil and ground black pepper - my 21 yr old with changes is a pocket rocket now on the turmeric. She is so mobile it is amazing and her wingalls have disappeared since she has been on it too.


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## Spring Feather (20 April 2014)

EmmaB said:



			Exactly, he was too fat. But most people probably wouldn't have given him a second glance like that and wouldn't have called the rspca.
		
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No, you're right they probably wouldn't have.  It's a balancing act getting their weight right all of the time.  I'm another who is more than happy for my horses to drop off a little in winter and then let them pick it back up again in summer, but not to extremes.


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## Meowy Catkin (20 April 2014)

You don't want him to be too fat either. I've just looked through some old photos of my mare and she's too podgy in a couple of them. I don't want her to return to that, I want to get her up to a healthy weight and no further.

It sounds like you were caught out this winter, but you will now be aware of what to do next winter.


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## EmmaB (20 April 2014)

YasandCrystal said:



			EmmaB may I suggest that you join the facebook Turmeric User Group - if your horse is stiff get him on turmeric, oil and ground black pepper - my 21 yr old with changes is a pocket rocket now on the turmeric. She is so mobile it is amazing and her wingalls have disappeared since she has been on it too.
		
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I've been meaning to actually! I tried turmeric before but didn't know about the oil and pepper so I've joined the fb group and am going to try it again  the fb group has some amazing stories on it doesn't it!


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## Goldenstar (20 April 2014)

I am happy to see mine loose weight in winter especially as that's when some of the are working hardest .
However I don't expect to ever see wasted muscles on a horse I am expecting to do XC and things like that .
As he's a bit arthritic  ( I assume that's why he's stiff ) don't discount low grade chronic pain contributing to the weight loss it might be worth a bit of veterinary imput .


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## EmmaB (20 April 2014)

He's went to the vet for his jabs a few weeks ago and she have me danilon for his arthritis


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## Goldenstar (20 April 2014)

EmmaB said:



			He's went to the vet for his jabs a few weeks ago and she have me danilon for his arthritis
		
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I think this may account for part of the issue not enough forage and chronic pain coming together .


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## Exploding Chestnuts (20 April 2014)

I would feed any  TB ad lib forage in winter [fat TB s are a rare breed] 
plus a balanced diet, 
hi fibre,  and minerals 
and micronised linseed.


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## EmmaB (20 April 2014)

True, so he should be on the way up from now on!


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## Exploding Chestnuts (20 April 2014)

Goldenstar said:



			I am happy to see mine loose weight in winter especially as that's when some of the are working hardest .
However I don't expect to ever see wasted muscles on a horse I am expecting to do XC and things like that .
As he's a bit arthritic  ( I assume that's why he's stiff ) don't discount low grade chronic pain contributing to the weight loss it might be worth a bit of veterinary imput .
		
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Not sure about losing weight, if working hard they should be trim and well muscled. Not thin. No wasted muscles.


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## BethH (20 April 2014)

Just wanted to say that given the 15 pages of responses and advice, your horse is very lucky to have an owner that is willing to learn and can accept criticism constructively - lucky boy, well done!


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## Fides (20 April 2014)

BethH said:



			Just wanted to say that given the 15 pages of responses and advice, your horse is very lucky to have an owner that is willing to learn and can accept criticism constructively - lucky boy, well done!
		
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I only have 4 

But I concur


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## YasandCrystal (20 April 2014)

EmmaB said:



			I've been meaning to actually! I tried turmeric before but didn't know about the oil and pepper so I've joined the fb group and am going to try it again  the fb group has some amazing stories on it doesn't it!
		
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Yes there are and you can feed micronised linseed as your oil which is great for condition and good gut health too.


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## Tnavas (20 April 2014)

MrsD123 said:



			I would feed any  TB ad lib forage in winter [fat TB s are a rare breed] 
plus a balanced diet, 
hi fibre,  and minerals 
and micronised linseed.
		
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MrsD123 - There are many fat TB's around - I have owned several and also had several in my Riding School - they are just horses - nothing special. All these horses wintered out on grass with a few slices of hay, one wool lined canvas cover and only hard fed if they came in to work.

Fat TB Tnavas






Fat TB Huggy Bear - in late winter






Fat 22yr old TB School Horse Palais Glyde, ex steeplechaser


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## Boulty (20 April 2014)

I'd say that yes he does look poor but all RSPCA are likely to do is come out, tell you that and maybe give you some feeding tips? 

I'd say the best thing for him would be a few weeks on some decent grass but if that's not possible then if your grazing isn't great I'd be haying your field if you're not already so he's always got access to good quality forage.  Feedwise micronised linseed is supposed to be good or if that's too expensive a good glug of oil will add some calories. Not sure on the calorie content of readymash but if it has less than calm and condition maybe consider giving that or some conditioning cubes a try (just be warned I've had a horse become rather wired on c&c!). Rather than increasing his current portion size I'd move him onto 3 feeds a day as despite their size horses don't have the biggest stomachs in the world.  I'd cut his exercise back to gentle walk / trot hacks (with some hills if you've got them to build topline) in addition to longlining and lunging and only reintroduce fast work when he's looking a bit more covered.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (21 April 2014)

Tnavas said:



			MrsD123 - There are many fat TB's around - I have owned several and also had several in my Riding School - they are just horses - nothing special. All these horses wintered out on grass with a few slices of hay, one wool lined canvas cover and only hard fed if they came in to work.

Fat TB Tnavas






Fat TB Huggy Bear - in late winter






Fat 22yr old TB School Horse Palais Glyde, ex steeplechaser





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I was trying to be subtle, there are many well conditioned TB s, they are well fed and well managed. There are many many more poor creatures, horses expected to live on fresh air and treated like native ponies.


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## mudmudmud (21 April 2014)

I'd cut the work out for a few weeks, try and get a bale of haylage in his field so he has constant access to forage, have you tried TopSpec Super Conditioning Flakes and Linseed? He could ideally do with his meals making smaller but more frequent so split into 4-5 feeds and make sure his worming is upto date.


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## Tnavas (21 April 2014)

MrsD123 said:



			I was trying to be subtle, there are many well conditioned TB s, they are well fed and well managed. There are many many more poor creatures, horses expected to live on fresh air and treated like native ponies.
		
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No you said 

"I would feed any TB ad lib forage in winter [fat TB s are a rare breed] 
plus a balanced diet, hi fibre, and minerals and micronised linseed."


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## STRIKER (21 April 2014)

Mrs D123 - I know what you were saying, lol


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## Rachelstokes (21 April 2014)

you could try horse and pony direct veteran feed balancer. the everyday balancer worked wonders on my tb x, which really did look like an rspca case when i got him!. it aids digestion and builds top line amongst other things, its affordable too. Hacking sounds good as long as its long and low work, maybe cut down on the xc though. hope thats of some help, good luck.


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## Goldenstar (21 April 2014)

I have bought some thin TB's I have however never owned one for long .


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## Exploding Chestnuts (22 April 2014)

Goldenstar said:



			I have bought some thin TB's I have however never owned one for long .
		
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THIS


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## EmmaB (22 April 2014)

Goldenstar and mrsd, well done you two, if you have any before and after pics of your tbs that you have turned around I would love to see them.

Well I've been putting out hay and haylage and he isn't really interested, he's just eating the grass. So I put him in the stable yesterday evening for a couple of hours to try and get it into him, and he wasn't stiff when he came out which is good. So I might start stabling him for just a few hours each day to make sure he is eating at least some. Not sure what else I can do to get him to eat more of it!


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## LaMooch (22 April 2014)

EmmaB said:



			Goldenstar and mrsd, well done you two, if you have any before and after pics of your tbs that you have turned around I would love to see them.

Well I've been putting out hay and haylage and he isn't really interested, he's just eating the grass. So I put him in the stable yesterday evening for a couple of hours to try and get it into him, and he wasn't stiff when he came out which is good. So I might start stabling him for just a few hours each day to make sure he is eating at least some. Not sure what else I can do to get him to eat more of it!
		
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Have you tried offering soaked grass nuts as found this good for weight gain and as your thinking of bringing in for a few hours offer it then as he can 'graze' on it


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## EmmaB (22 April 2014)

LaMooch said:



			Have you tried offering soaked grass nuts as found this good for weight gain and as your thinking of bringing in for a few hours offer it then as he can 'graze' on it
		
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No actually I never thought about grass nuts for weight gain but thankyou it's another option to try! 

Think ive figured out why he wasn't eating though, he has taken a dislike to the haylage! Has eaten his hay fine today but totally turned his nose up at the haylage. So have given the bloody stuff to my friend as the other horses all ate it perfectly fine. Fussy horse!


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## Goldenstar (22 April 2014)

When did he have his last dental.


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## EmmaB (22 April 2014)

November. He ate haylage not long ago so maybe this bale isn't as good quality!


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## LaMooch (22 April 2014)

EmmaB said:



			November. He ate haylage not long ago so maybe this bale isn't as good quality!
		
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it can vary between bales just like hay


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## Tiddlypom (22 April 2014)

Sorry if I've missed it if you replied, but has he been tested recently for Cushings'? He has the typical poor top line and dropped belly of a Cushings' horse.


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