# Buying a horse being sold 'on behalf of owner'



## cielo2010 (14 November 2016)

Hi- I am buying a section c who was advertised by a guy who does some training/buying and selling small time. The actual owner of the pony I'm buying is his breeder (she breeds welshys) but has recently sold her land so the pony has gone to him to be sold. I ALWAYS make sure I get/give reciepts when buying or selling a horse but this is the first time I've bought this way. Can the "trainer" just write me a reciept on owners behalf, does she need to sign it or would it need to come directly from her? Just want to keep myself right! Thank you


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## tallyho! (14 November 2016)

cielo2010 said:



			Hi- I am buying a section c who was advertised by a guy who does some training/buying and selling small time. The actual owner of the pony I'm buying is his breeder (she breeds welshys) but has recently sold her land so the pony has gone to him to be sold. I ALWAYS make sure I get/give reciepts when buying or selling a horse but this is the first time I've bought this way. Can the "trainer" just write me a reciept on owners behalf, does she need to sign it or would it need to come directly from her? Just want to keep myself right! Thank you
		
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I don't know an awful lot but whoever's name is on the passport should be writing the paperwork and you need the signature to change the name on the passport so the pony legally belongs to you. I think you have 30 days. I would check either the PIO of the passport (assuming it has one) or the HPA and make sure you do the groundwork.


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## be positive (14 November 2016)

I sell on behalf of owners and write a receipt in the normal way, you are covered exactly the same as if buying from the owner and in some ways have more rights as it is sold as part of the business, with a WPCS passport do ensure it is all correct, as the breeder still owns it you should be fine but they are the only society that insists on full ownership records before updating.

You may need to find out how to pay, I like the money to either go directly to the owner or take cash so it does not go in and out of my account when it is not mine, I don't want to have to justify thousands being "laundered"


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## cielo2010 (14 November 2016)

That's great thanks. Even thought he is not a dealer or a business does it still work in the same way?


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## be positive (14 November 2016)

cielo2010 said:



			That's great thanks. Even thought he is not a dealer or a business does it still work in the same way?
		
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He is running a business even if it is only small or part time he will not be doing the work for free, well he might be but that is extremely unlikely.


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## Snuffles (15 November 2016)

Passport is not proof of ownership !


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## Luci07 (17 November 2016)

Agree re the passport. It really is a useless document as far as then average owner is concerned and simply another cost to bear.

Google is your friend here. I can't honestly remember how many horses it is but you only need to sell a small number to be legally deemed a dealer. Your protection changes as such (although never seems to that much better)

Ask this man about payment upfront. When my horse was sold on sales livery, the money was paid directly to me and I wrote the receipt. I then paid the commission to the agent.


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## Fluffypiglet (17 November 2016)

When I bought my horse, I had a receipt from the seller and paid the owner directly (with receipt confirming this had happened and a text from the owner confirming she had received the money). I have no idea what financial agreement occurred between the seller and owner but this way I was happy that everyone involved had confirmed the sale so I'm as covered as I can be.


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## conniegirl (17 November 2016)

Snuffles said:



			Passport is not proof of ownership !
		
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No it isnt however the WPCS passports contain an owner section and they will not let you update it and transfer ownership without the correct form signed by the previous owner. Without the correct name in the passport you cannot register the horse as yours which means if you cannot join the society or register the pony as a pure/partbred welsh with any other showing society so are not eligable for the M&M classes, so not transfering ownership correctly severly devalues the pony


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## MiJodsR2BlinkinTite (17 November 2016)

I'm currently horse-hunting atm, and have seen a few horses either on FB or elsewhere (say at a riding stables) where the horse/pony is being "sold on behalf of owner".

All I will say is to exercise care. Personally I would far rather deal with the actual "owner" at some stage in the transaction rather than a third party, who very likely knows nothing or very little about the horse.

Worst recent buying experience was when I fell in love with a super little Welsh D mare at a riding school in the area back in the summer. She was liveried at the RS and being used by them, and they were "selling on behalf of owner". Unfortunately the vet spun her  - then it all got very embarrassing and downright nasty when the proprietress of the RS came out and starting slanging off at the vet. She then told him that the horse was sound, had "passed the riding school vetting" (oh haven't we all heard this before LOL) and that she (note, SHE, and NOT the owner!!) was so affronted and was so convinced he was wrong that she would arrange (and pay for!) a Five Stage Vetting which was due to take place the next day. In the event, I had a phone call early the next morning to say that the vetting was cancelled, as the RS Proprietoress had, unbelievably, had the affrontery to have asked the owner to pay for the vetting, and he - understandably - had told her to trot on........... Totally unbelievable!  In a situation like that, I would much rather have been dealing direct with the owner. 

Another experience, not quite so nasty, but regrettable, was when I saw - and very much liked - a really nice little 6yo mare which was being "sold on behalf of owner" at a breaking & remedial yard. The guy running the yard had apparently backed and brought on this little mare, she had very low mileage, was totally unspoilt, and she was a real delight, had obviously been brought on slowly and nicely and was ready to go on. The owner never appeared at the viewing, it was all left to the YO to arrange. There were apparently six others who'd viewed this horse over a weekend, one of whom was a family with two boys. Owner wanted mare to "go to a family". However I know through a mutual contact that the YO gave me a very high recommendation and it was his choice that, of all the people that had viewed her, if the decision had been his, he would have let me have her, and that was the strong recommendation that he gave to the owner. However, she chose the "family" home, so that was that  On this occasion, it would have been very beneficial for the owner to have seen how this little mare went for everyone that tried her, but especially to have listened to the wisdom of the YO, who after all had backed her in the first place, and to have picked a home accordingly.

OK so appreciate that some owners can't deal with selling; but TBH think that some do need to take more of an interest.

Which - sorry! - doesn't answer your query OP. Sorry, just rambling on a wet & windy afternoon (I should be riding but couldn't be @rsed LOL).


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