# I think I've been had :-(



## MrsB (13 March 2012)

Hi there,

I have been riding for many many years, been a sharer etc. and after spending far too much money at a riding school, decided to buy my own horse.  After trawling and searching high and low, I found, what I thought and was advertised as an "ideal first horse".  I went and tried him, he was lovely, very quiet, nice to handle although a bit skinny, but the lady did say he lived out all through the winter.  He also apparently had no vices and was a novice ride.  So we agreed a price, got a 2 stage vetting and Boris (6 years old, 16.3 irish X) comes home with me and is on livery at a very experienced yard, with a variety of horses at all levels, from plodders to stallions and everything inbetween.

He came back on a Thursday and I then rode him on the Sunday to give him a chance to settle in.  I had the saddler come out to him straight away, had his teeth done, back shoes on and also had the physio check over him before I rode him and all was good.  He was a bit nappy, but let this go as it was his first time out in a new place, we were also with another horse who was very quiet. 15 mins before home he started to get very fidgety, got himself into a right tizz pouring with sweat and throwing his head around and he was very strong (he was advertised as snaffle-mouthed).  Again, I let this go as it was his first time out.

I then rode him a couple of days later in the school.  My instructor described him like a "newly backed 3 year old", he knew nothing, wasn't well balanced and the woman I bought him off reckons he'd done dressage!  I went to change my whip over (quietly) into my other hand and he shot across the school - I remember her saying to me she had to "give him a few hard whacks to get him going as he was lazy".  He was very forward going (she said he wasn't but with food in him he is!), only had to touch his sides and he'd ping into trot, we did lots of transitions, 20m circles, serpentines etc. to get him listening.  I rode him every day either in the school or out on a hack with quiet horses and he seemed fine, although I put a market harborough on him to help control him a bit more and a flash. He threw in a small buck when I asked for canter on the left reign, but this is his worst one and thought nothing of it.

Then on Friday, we get to a different place out on a hack, I ask him for trot and he throws in a hefty buck.  Fortunately I sat through it, calmed him down and carried on and put that down to excitement.  On Saturday (just gone) I rode him in the school, asked for trot on the left reign and he threw a huge buck this time and I landed like a sack of spuds on my shoulder. 

Since he's been with me, his temperament has changed.  Whilst he is nice to groom, he bites when given his feed and hay (although he has got better), he's terrible at picking his feet out, not great with the farrier and as he's feeling better, he's now becoming a right handful and there is no way he's a novice ride.  I've got the physio coming out again to check his back and I'm now getting the bloods checked that the vet took as I think he may have been sedated.  I certainly think he's been kept thin to keep him under control - but that is so cruel!

The woman said that I could bring him back if he wasn't suitable, I have contacted her and she has come back to me, but the last message I left was that I wanted to bring him back as he's not right but surprise surprise, she hasn't come back to me!  I will have owned him 4 weeks this Thursday...

It is such a shame as this is my first time buying a horse!!!  Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Mrs B


----------



## MrsB (13 March 2012)

Forgot to add that whilst I'm prepared to give him time, what I don't want to end up with is a very fit big horse who's a nightmare and dangerous!


----------



## Littlelegs (13 March 2012)

What did your instructor think about him when when you went to view him prior to purchase?


----------



## benson21 (13 March 2012)

Private sale or dealer???


----------



## ThePony (13 March 2012)

Can you give us a bit more of an idea about his management?

Feed/turnout/amount of exercise? How experienced are you with handling horses? Is he the same to handle with a calm experienced owner on the yard? 

Ridden, is his problematic behaviour usually on the left rein? Can you get someone experienced to watch him trot up and turn small circles in walk to see if there could be an issue there? 

I'd speak to the vet who did your vetting and give them the heads up that you are having issues and see if they can shed any light and suggest next steps with the bloods.

Def keep trying the seller if you want to return him. Was it a business or private seller you got him from? If a business then maybe trading standards can weigh in?

Best of luck with this.


----------



## Ibblebibble (13 March 2012)

there's 2 ways of looking at it, yep you've been had and he was doped or kept skinny to keep him sane and unless you got it in writing that you can return him you are up the creek without a paddle 
Or you can say  that 4 weeks isn't a very long time for a relatively young horse to settle in, most horses seem to go through a stage of testing a new owner/rider. Have you made huge changes to his routine compared to how he was kept at his last home? more feed less turnout can make a huge difference to a horses behaviour, plus the spring grass and warmer weather can turn even the saintliest plod into a wild thing for a week or 2!  Have you had your instructor ride him to see what she /he thinks and to see what tune they can get out of him?


----------



## Grumpy Jewel (13 March 2012)

This has always been a worry of mine when getting a new horse. Well done with dealing with what's been thrown at you so far. You said he is 6, so possibly he is having a period of either testing you out, or really freaking out. Youngsters are not my thing I'm afraid so I dont have much advice, although when I got my mare she looked very chilled out and relaxed when she arrived and also felt relaxed, until I got on about 9month after I had had her and she felt like she had really settled, almost like she had sighed and put her feet up. I put it down to finally accepting me, her new routine and home after 9 months of good living and from a good home rather from neglect. People on here will give great advice. Hang I'n there


----------



## Amymay (13 March 2012)

Who viewed the horse with you (as in what 'expert' did you take)?  And it sounds like a 5 stage vetting (not 2).......

At 16.3hh and 6 years old I wouldn't expect him to be very balanced in the school.  He's young, big and has lots of maturing to do.

Changing of the whip over is no biggie - it may have been a new experience for him.  

Take the Market Harborough off, and think about a standing martingale instead.  

I'm assuming a new well fitted saddle, and good girth??

Sounds like food is making a difference, what are you feeding, and what's his general management. But I have to say you're coming across as someone for whom this horse may not be a problem.  You sound calm and considered.

Can't imagine the seller will take him back, but you never know.


----------



## dumpling (13 March 2012)

What are you feeding him? What was previous owner feeding him? 

 If she wasnt feeding him anything except hay, perhaps it was for a reason.


----------



## Suechoccy (13 March 2012)

What are you feeding him?  I'm wondering if you've been overfeeding him and feeding him too much rich stuff because he arrived skinny and you want to build him up?   if so, the feed will be adling his brain, he'll be hyper like a kid on smarties.

Go back to basics, downfeed him.  Let him gain weight on grass and hay, and if you want to feed him from a bowl, make it unmolassed chaff (not alfalfa, not molassed chaff or laminitic chaff (which contains molasses) but molasses-free chaff).   Alfalfa can dizzy their brains, so can haylage.  Put a bit of balancer in the chaff so you know he's getting the right vits, and a couple of succulents - carrots or apple, but not too much because of the sugar.

See if that has an effect within 5 days or so.

They will also try you out at some point to see where the boundaries lie.  My horse is lovely and everything he was advertised to be (I've had him 12 years) but I do remember him napping badly with me about 3 weeks after I'd bought him, no particular reason, it was just the day for setting boundaries.  No problems since.  

And this is a young horse, 6 is young, whether he's done nothing or done dressage, so you are going to be responsible for his education. He's not a finished product at that age.   Many neds aren't mature in their physicalness or mentalness until they're 7. And he's a big boy so likely to be slowmaturing.

Good luck with him if you keep him.


----------



## Rb1 (13 March 2012)

He does sound like he is a bit much for a first horse (although your obviously experienced for a first time owner, your not comfortable with him) and after 4 weeks of settling in I would want to see the more normal behaviour that you were expecting of him.
If you bought him from someone who sells as a business then she should take him back, especially as it has only been a month, however I'm pretty sure a private seller has no obligation to take the horse back from you unless you have it in writing, even though they said they would.
However even if you cant give him back it doesn't sound like he would be too hard to sell, he sounds like he would be a nice project for someone experienced.
Edit: I forgot to add about food, but most people have already said. One of my old horses only got hard feed when I wanted him to be fizzy, as even a small amount made him go up a few gears and buck! Most of the time he was fed a handful of chaff with carrots (mainly so he didn't feel left out) and he had a vitamin and mineral lick.


----------



## rascal (13 March 2012)

Sadly lots of people seem to keep horses skinny to keep them quiet. Living out through the winter shouldnt be a reason for a horse to be skinny, mine live out 24/7 and are quite plump. All his isues could probably be worked on but only if you have the time, confidence and eperience, if not you may be better selling him on to someone who has.


----------



## MrsB (13 March 2012)

Hi Guys, thanks for your replies.  It was a private sale...

The instructor I took was from the riding school I went to - she said he was nice, quiet, a bit skinny, but he did live out so that would explain that. He was being fed twice a day with hay, but I'm not sure what she was giving him, she did say she gave him oats to wake him up a bit for dressage!

I spoke to the vet - he raised the subject of his condition with the owner at the time of vetting, but she dodged the issue and when I said it could be that he's a handful when up to weight, he agreed with me and said unfortunately this is common 

He's gone from living in the equivalent of a youth hostel to the Ritz. He's fed twice a day with nuts, chaff and hay, he's turned out for approx. 6 hours every day.  I have a good quality 2nd hand saddle professionally fitted with a new girth, sheepskin numnah.  Where he is now, they are very experienced, more than where I used to ride and I trust their judgement implicitly.

I do want the bloods done because if he was given anything to quieten him down, I'll take her to court.  If they come back clean, then I will persevere, but he is a lot of horse for me, I don't feel experienced enough to handle him.  He is now lame, which is another reason for the bloods being tested, I noticed that when I lunged him yesterday.

I know that as he's a big boy he will take time to gain his balance and also build up muscle to balance him and I also understand that he'll push the boundaries, but what I am most peed off with is that she advertised him as an ideal first horse and a novice ride, and under proper care, he most definately is not!  If he was advertised as an experienced ride only then I could fully understand it.

I know it's not Boris' fault, because he is a sweet boy, he comes to me when I call him, he's a delight to groom and be around, but I'm worried I'm going to have a big beast with an attitude on my hands!  I'm going to take my time and give him time, but while doing so, don't want to get hurt...


----------



## luckyoldme (13 March 2012)

i got had but i was an idiot and deserved it.
I went to the worst dealer in the country on my own in a brand new car and bought a horse i felt sorry for.
He came complete with a false passport and somewhere between the dealers yard and my house he underwent a complete personality change.
It was hell on earth for the first six months it was a dangerous nightmare.
I wasn t exsperienced enough to handle him but i grew in confidence as time went by. Eventually we bonded and i have had him 3 years nowI ride in the summer and chill out in the winter.. he is seriously perfect for me!
I think some horses go through a tremendous trauma when changing hands and take ages to settle down and get their confidence... 
I know it feels like crap at the moment..been there but please don t rule out the possibility of a happy ending!


----------



## Beans1 (13 March 2012)

Hi ... what nuts, chaff and hay are you feeding him?  and what quantities?


----------



## Grumpy Jewel (13 March 2012)

Don't rule him being your perfect horse out. Once you have settled on a managment and feeding routine that works for you he may well be. He is only 6 so once you have worked out where his buttons are and with a good instructor started progressing with his schooling/ education he may turn out to be a star.


----------



## FabioandFreddy (13 March 2012)

Both ours live out over winter - one's a TB and has maintained a good weight! Living out is no excuse for a horse to be skinny. Its not been a hard winter either. I would say she kept him skinny to keep him a bit lacklustre when ridden! 

I hope you get the result you want - be it him being taken back or just working through the issues. 6 is still young and he may just be testing you. Although like others have said, after 4 weeks you'd expect him to have settled more. Its such a shame when people mis-advertise horses as it generally ends in the horse being passed from pillar to post or the rider losing confidence. If people were just honest to start with then more chance of the right match!


----------



## noblesteed (13 March 2012)

I would second the feeding issue. Whether or not it seems 'correct' to cut his feed, some horses just can't cope with what we give them.

My current horse is my first horse and I had a nightmare with him for about the first year - bucking, spooking, napping, barging. Like yours I bought him underweight and unfit after winter, though he was 9, and took him to a professional yard where I had lots of help. I fed him what I thought was a proper diet, with lots of haylage and good quality feed. He was turned out less than he had been at the old home which had been a private farm. I had lessons on him and he was schooled by my instructor sometimes and he was ridden every day, but he was still awful and people told me to sell him.
In the end out of desperation I moved him to a friends farm where he gets 24 hour turnout and a smidgen of feed... totally different horse. If your horse came from this sort of set-up to a busy livery yard it might just be too much for him! I am not saying you should move him at all, as you are best off where you can get help when you need it BUT can you increase turnout and cut feed to see what happens then????

To add, I was stubborn and refused to sell my horse. 4 years on and he is pretty much perfect for me but it has been a long hard struggle, I have had several injuries and lots of help from other people as my confidence was completely destroyed. So it depends how much you want to put in. 4 weeks isn't a long time to settle in especially seeing as he is a baby. BUT you have to decide if it's worth the effort or would you be better getting something that has done more.


----------



## HashRouge (13 March 2012)

The first thing I would do is stop feeding him anything other than hay and see if that has any effect. I made the mistake of over-feeding my first horse and she was absolutely cuckoo until my RI realised what was going on and told me to stop giving her additional feeds, just hay and a small handful of chaff so she felt including at dinnertime.


----------



## thatsmygirl (13 March 2012)

Just to put a different spin on it, I loaned one horse with view to buy and the mare came back 8 weeks later as a bolter!!! I have owned the mare 10 yrs and know her inside out so it did make me chuckle. 
I sold a very quiet cob who was a perfect first horse and again had him for a few years so knew him inside out. I had a call to tell me he was messing about and being nappy, I couldn't believe it so went and rode him and was fine so worked with them and it was a happy outcome. 

What I'm trying to say is new horses can push their luck with a new rider so maybe that's what's going on.


----------



## zaminda (13 March 2012)

I would also question the feed. Look at something non heating, nuts vary massively!
I would say horses change so much from when they are underweight to when they look reasonable. 
Bloods are all very well and good, but a friend of mine bought a horse who had a full vetting bloods included, only to be told when the horse was a nutter, that it wouldn't be economically viable to test for everything that can be used.
Of course the best way to keep a horse quiet is to remove water, which would affect condition and keep him quiet.
I would persevere, lunge before riding, try a build him up slowly.
Maybe consider getting someone else to ride him occasionally to bring him on, as he is only a baby.


----------



## EllieBeast (13 March 2012)

How about letting him have 24/7 turnout again? He's gone from being out 24hrs a day to just a quarter of that- any young horse may feel the need to burn off a bit more steam in that situation. Also maybe just try him on adlib hay, he will get all he needs from it if its good enough quality and he gets enough of it. It may be he is sensitive to molasses that could be in the chaff or that he isn't sure what to do with the extra energy he finds himself with now he is being fed more. You sound like you are handling him well, and 4 weeks is still a relatively short time for a young horse to be finding his feet- how long did his previous owner have him for? Good luck!


----------



## whiteclover (13 March 2012)

HashRouge said:



			The first thing I would do is stop feeding him anything other than hay and see if that has any effect. I made the mistake of over-feeding my first horse and she was absolutely cuckoo until my RI realised what was going on and told me to stop giving her additional feeds, just hay and a small handful of chaff so she felt including at dinnertime.
		
Click to expand...

I have to agree cut out any feed. Also if you bought from a dealer you are better covered than buying privately. I hope you get the matter resolved soon.


----------



## Amymay (13 March 2012)

It's a real shame that more was not made of his condition at the vetting - and that concerns were not raised with you about how the change in regime (i.e actually getting fed properly) may affect him.

Drop the hard feed, and carry on with all your hard work.  I think he could turn out to be a super star.....!


----------



## Kat (13 March 2012)

Don't despair. 

I think you are doing absolutely the right thing having the bloods tested, get the vet to look at the lameness too incase that is causing the issues or is something that should have been notified to you. 

If you decide to persevere with him, which you sound capable of doing I would suggest having someone from the yard help schooling him and having lots of lessons. 

I would cut his feed right back to the bare minimum, hay and a balancer. He may look a bit on the poor side for a while but better that than him become a monster. Maybe add a calmer to his feed too. Keep him on low sugar and low starch. I'd get him as much turnout as possible too, that normally helps settle them a bit without getting them too fit. Has his routine or environment changed significantly? Worth considering whether that might have unsettled him. 

Check all of his tack is suitable and comfortable. Are his teeth ok? Is his tack what he is used to? 

I agree that a standing martingale would be a good idea if he is chucking his head about to evade you. They are easy to pick up cheaply. 

Consider lunging before riding if he is fresh, and be careful to keep safe with hat and body protector, a mobile in your pocket and someone around at all times as a safety precaution. 

Providing he hasn't been drugged you will probably find that this is a combination of him testing you, feeling well on extra feed, spring arriving and possibly some changes he isn't happy with or some discomfort somewhere. By the sounds of your post I'm sure you will get there with him in the end.


----------



## Flame_ (13 March 2012)

OP what area are you in? If I were you I would send the horse to a very good professional for one week. One who is used to all sorts of horses, screw-ups, breakers, etc. They can assess the horse and tell you, because none of us can, if there is not really anything more wrong with this horse than greenness and being unsettled, or if it is a bigger problem. With a bit more reassurance that the horse just needs time and confidence, you'll feel happier about proceeding or if you've had it from someone who knows that this is a horse with severe issues you have more grounds for returning it.


----------



## MrsB (13 March 2012)

I've checked with the yard owner - she assures me there's no 'heat' in any of the feed.  I'll suggest turning him out for longer and she did say that come April/May they will be out all night.

The physio is looking at him as I type, my vet found an 'inactive splint' on his front left leg, I can't remember whether the vetting vet put this on the form or not.

I know there's a load of potential with him and I want to do a little bit of everything with him, i.e. dressage, jumping, happy hacking etc. with a view to my daughter riding him when she's older and experienced enough (she's 6!), so I bought him with a view to keeping him for the long term.

I just hope we can sort him out, because I know I can give him a loving, caring and fulfilling home, I hope he can return the favour!


----------



## Kat (13 March 2012)

MrsB said:



			I've checked with the yard owner - she assures me there's no 'heat' in any of the feed.  I'll suggest turning him out for longer and she did say that come April/May they will be out all night.

The physio is looking at him as I type, my vet found an 'inactive splint' on his front left leg, I can't remember whether the vetting vet put this on the form or not.

I know there's a load of potential with him and I want to do a little bit of everything with him, i.e. dressage, jumping, happy hacking etc. with a view to my daughter riding him when she's older and experienced enough (she's 6!), so I bought him with a view to keeping him for the long term.

I just hope we can sort him out, because I know I can give him a loving, caring and fulfilling home, I hope he can return the favour!
		
Click to expand...

I think it would be worth taking a slightly more active role in his feeding. Find out exactly what products he is getting and in what quantities. Horses react very differently to some feeds and they can be "traditionally" non-heating but actually send some nuts!

I had to start buying a separate feed for mine as the standard stuff that is included with the livery just wasn't right. You may need to do the same and buy something that has no sugar or starch.


----------



## Amymay (13 March 2012)

Kat said:



			I think it would be worth taking a slightly more active role in his feeding. Find out exactly what products he is getting and in what quantities. Horses react very differently to some feeds and they can be "traditionally" non-heating but actually send some nuts!
		
Click to expand...

Agreed, this is your situation to manage, with the help of others.

Good luck with him - let us know how you get on.


----------



## CBFan (13 March 2012)

As a fellow owner of a very large young horse I can reassure you that they ARE unballanced and thus they do buck. So, while there could be an underlying problem the bucking could simply be this - I know with my youngster, the fitter he has become, the less bucking he does!

I would echo the others - cut his feed RIGHT down. My boy has add-lib hay but only half a scoop of high fibre cubes and a dolop of speedibeet to have his supplements in. I'd feed a general purpose powder supplement rather than a balancer as balancers can heat them up if they are sensitive types. I've never known a horse to heat up on a powder supp. If you want to help the calories, add some sunflower oil.

Some 'chaffs'  contain a LOT of sugar - I'd make sure he is on a mollasses free variety with minimal Alfa alfa content.

Is he getting turnout? if so, how much? young horses really need at least 8 hours a day IMO to expect them to stay sane!

While he isn't as advertised you haven't described anything particularly alarming... i wouldn't hack a youngster and not expect the odd blip and I certainly wouldn't get on an unknown youngster and expect to do with it what you would a more experienced horse i.e canters out hacking, large groups etc... slowly slowly catchy monkey!... he is just a young, insecure horse in unfamiliar surroundings and I would have expected any lameness to show up sooner had bute been used to mask it...


----------



## MrsB (13 March 2012)

Kat said:



			Check all of his tack is suitable and comfortable. Are his teeth ok? Is his tack what he is used to? 

Consider lunging before riding if he is fresh, and be careful to keep safe with hat and body protector, a mobile in your pocket and someone around at all times as a safety precaution. 

Providing he hasn't been drugged you will probably find that this is a combination of him testing you, feeling well on extra feed, spring arriving and possibly some changes he isn't happy with or some discomfort somewhere. By the sounds of your post I'm sure you will get there with him in the end.
		
Click to expand...

His tack is fine, still snaffle - he did have a martingale on, so maybe put that on instead of the market hard.  HIs teeth were done after day 2 of being with me and done by the vet as they'd never been done before.

Yes, once he's not lame I will be lunging prior to riding and always have someone with me at all times.  I will be investing in the body protector and ALWAYS wear a hat, I can't believe some people don't!

I know that come spring, they all behaving like loonies and I am considering sending him to a bootcamp type thing, but really want them to come to me, don't want him being shifted around and unsettled any more than necessary.

The previous owner had him for 9 months, she said she bought him from a friend to 'bring him on and sell once schooled'... yeah right!  Also, his passport was dodgy, but having never seen once I didn't know what I was looking at and have had to send it away to Ped ID to get it sorted out properly, his date of birth is 2005, that's all it says!


----------



## Bubbles (13 March 2012)

MrsB said:



			I've checked with the yard owner - she assures me there's no 'heat' in any of the feed.  I'll suggest turning him out for longer and she did say that come April/May they will be out all night.
		
Click to expand...

Get him out full time asap, build up any needed condition with extra forage and drop the hard feed. His change in circumstances are probably affecting him quite a bit, and he'll be half way to being quite fit from having lived out 24/7, plus as soon as it gets above 5 degrees the nice sugary grass starts coming through. He might be one of those young horses that needs work everyday to remind him of his manners. Don't be scared to be very firm with him when he needs to behave himself. 
Don't despair just yet, we've all been there. I bought a lovely 4 yo that was described as being like a 10year old school master. In his last home, he was, when I got him home he turned into a nappy raving lunatic that refused to leave the barn and would p*ss off with me on grass. It wasn't anyone's fault, he was just a baby horse with new circumstances and he went a bit dolally  After 2 months he went back to being an angel...


----------



## Amymay (13 March 2012)

I am considering sending him to a bootcamp type thing, but really want them to come to me
		
Click to expand...

I really wouldn't do that - he simply doesn't sound from what you say as needing that.  And if anything it could have the opposite effect of what you are trying to achieve.

The key for you is his management and the support of a good hacking partner and good instructor.

Remember (and sorry I know I'm repeating myself) but this is a 6 year standing at 16.3.  He will be at least 8 years old until fully matured, and pushing too soon with any type of hardcore schooling work could be totally detrimental to his development.

As a poster above has said, slowly, slowly catchy monkey.  Ride him, develop a relationship with him, be totally hands on with his management and learn what makes him tick.


----------



## MrsB (13 March 2012)

Bubbles said:



			After 2 months he went back to being an angel...
		
Click to expand...

I certainly live in hope of that!

All other points and suggestions noted on feed/turnout etc. and thanks very much for all your help and advice


----------



## MrsMozart (13 March 2012)

Aye 'up m'duck 

Ditto Kat and AmyMay and others regarding the feed. 'Nuts' covers a multitude of different levels.

Talk to the Yard, but I'd go for a good balancer (mine are on Top Spec for the mares (working horses), and Baileys Lo Cal for the boys (retired ponies)) and hay, nothing else.

Ditto also the new horse, new owner, new yard situation. It could be that it's a combination of things with him, plus the lack of feed. Maybe previous person did do all she said she did with him, but just didn't give him anything like he's getting now feed wise.

If you really like this horse, see what he turns into. It sounds like, as he's lame, you would have some bonding time with him.

Regarding the lameness. I got a bit nervous when you said he bucked on cantering and wasn't keen on trotting. It's avoidance, bad manners, excitement, or a medical issue: the second one can be worked on, as can the third; the first is either linked to the second, or the fourth. Fingers crossed it's the former as bad manners can be overcome, especially with a comparatively young horse.

The bad manners in the stable may be because he's not used to getting food and feels he needs to defend it/get it off you. Time and firm patience should overcome that (you say he's already starting to change). My horse, if allowed to do her own thing, can be a pain. Keep on top of the expectation of manners and she's lovely. I always know if others have been handling her and not expecting the same level of manners as I do. I know that by now she should be well mannered with all and under all circumstances, but she's not and despite my efforts I don't think she ever will be. She looks for the leader.

You do sound quite keen on the lad in your heart, though your head is probably saying return him. What does your instructor and/or some close and equine savvy friend think of him for you with some time and some work? Of course you might not want to put that in, which is understandable as that isn't what you thought you'd purchased.

Always here if you need a sounding board hun.


----------



## Kat (13 March 2012)

MrsB said:



			His tack is fine, still snaffle - he did have a martingale on, so maybe put that on instead of the market hard.  HIs teeth were done after day 2 of being with me and done by the vet as they'd never been done before.

Is it the same type of snaffle? A change from french link to single jointed or similar could make him unhappy. What was he in and what is he in now? I would definitely switch the market harborough for a standing martingale as if he is unbalanced and/or poorly muscled the market harborough could be making things difficult for him and upsetting him.

Yes, once he's not lame I will be lunging prior to riding and always have someone with me at all times.  I will be investing in the body protector and ALWAYS wear a hat, I can't believe some people don't!

I know that come spring, they all behaving like loonies and I am considering sending him to a bootcamp type thing, but really want them to come to me, don't want him being shifted around and unsettled any more than necessary.

I totally understand that you wouldn't want to send him away. I would look for a situation where you can have him schooled a couple of times a week and have a couple of lessons a week with him. You might be able to switch him to schooling livery at your current yard if they have suitable riders/instructors if not look for someone who can come out to you or a yard where you could stay in the longer term so you aren't chopping and changing. Maybe post your area on here and people might have some good suggestions. I don't think a 1-2 week boot camp is the solution I think it is a bit more long term than that, so that with lots of help so that you can learn how to ride your horse successfully. 

The previous owner had him for 9 months, she said she bought him from a friend to 'bring him on and sell once schooled'... yeah right!  Also, his passport was dodgy, but having never seen once I didn't know what I was looking at and have had to send it away to Ped ID to get it sorted out properly, his date of birth is 2005, that's all it says! 

sounds a bit worrying, but could equally be nothing, lots of people are rubbish with passports. 

Click to expand...

Best of luck really hope you get through this one way or the other. Do look at his feed and try to get him as much turnout as possible. I think those two things are probably the key.


----------



## Kat (13 March 2012)

MrsMozart said:



			Ditto Kat and AmyMay and others regarding the feed. 'Nuts' covers a multitude of different levels.

Talk to the Yard, but I'd go for a good balancer (mine are on Top Spec for the mares (working horses), and Baileys Lo Cal for the boys (retired ponies)) and hay, nothing else.
		
Click to expand...

Just another suggestion, I looked at Top Spec or Baileys Lo Cal for mine but was worried about getting enough calories down her to keep weight on without aggravating her stressy tendancies. I ended up putting her on pure feeds as it is low starch and low sugar but has plenty of the right type of calories for putting on condition, as she was looking skinny. If you are addressing the feed maybe look at their balancer as it means you only need one bag which is a bonus if you are having to sort it yourself rather than use the feed the yard use.


----------



## scarymare (13 March 2012)

OP there is some excellent advice here.

Find a yard that can offer 24/7 turnout NOW with ad-lib hay if required.  No hard feed and certainly don't try and get weight on as this will happen automatically.  Honestly there really aren't that many horses that this won't sort out.

I've had my rising 7 since a foal (and I'm no jockey believe me).  I moved him to a livery yard for a month to make progress (on 13th Feb).  Last Saturday he had an excellent go at bucking me off, and over the month I actually became quite wary of him, he was just too much for me.  They were feeding nothing but haylage and 'Calm and Condition'.

Moved him back to his field immediately this happened (didn't even take off my hat when got lorry) and when I rode last night normal service of dope on a rope had been resumed.  Get an instructor to ride him from the field if you wish (using the money saved from livery).  Sounds like a nice horse to me just reading between the lines.


----------



## ester (13 March 2012)

deleted cos I didn't read it properly!


----------



## Amymay (13 March 2012)

scarymare said:



			Find a yard that can offer 24/7 turnout NOW with ad-lib hay if required.
		
Click to expand...

The difficulty with moving yards is that the OP may well loose what sounds to be a good support network.

Providing the horse is turned out nice and early (ours are out by 7.00am) and not coming until 3.00 ish that should be offering plenty of turnout.  Obviously many of us bring the horses in later if we're not riding - so potentially this horse could be having 11 hours turnout a day.  Which is more than satisfactory.


----------



## skipper (13 March 2012)

I bought my boy when he was 4. Quiet as you like, good as gold, did everything with him when I tried him out. Dealer was 100% straightforward and honest with us about him. Got him home and ended nearly every ride in tears having been rodeo-ed with around the school, tanked off with for no good reason, constant dramatic spooking at nothing etc. I was terrified of him after about 3 months, and my confidence wasn't fantastic at that point anyway.  

I moved him onto a different yard after this time (the one I had my other horse on) and that changed everything. Fantastic RI, regular turnout and other horses where he could let off some steam and play and a much better routine and he began to revert to the quiet, calm boy I'd bought in the first place. Most youngsters will go through that phase anyway, especially with a new owner, new home etc. all of which he'll be testing and working out how much he might be able to get away with! 

Stick with it, calm, quiet hacking, schooling with a RI you trust whose willing to go right back to the very beginning with him and gain both of your confidence in each other and help him get his balance. With time and patience you could have a really lovely horse on your hands.  My boy's turned into an absolute star now, the most wonderful nature and everybody loves him, it's hard to recall that it really was him during his 'bratty' stage!


----------



## indie999 (13 March 2012)

Grumpy Jewel said:



			Don't rule him being your perfect horse out. Once you have settled on a managment and feeding routine that works for you he may well be. He is only 6 so once you have worked out where his buttons are and with a good instructor started progressing with his schooling/ education he may turn out to be a star.
		
Click to expand...

Yep agree with this, the grass is coming through and I would stick to his old regime if he is getting too much good stuff now(I mean rich food). He might be testing you(he is very young). Spring is sprung, just hay and mineral lick. But you sound like you are doing really well. Changing a bit ?? you really need him listening to your aids and you. 

I would keep on the lessons and might be worth getting someone who will ride him for you as well if you start losing confidence with such a young horse. 

Honestly I agree stick him out in the field with a bit of hay (keep eye on grass) old fashioned mineral lick block(not molasses). He is young and being out will keep him amused too, reduce pent up energy etc.Keep him working though & little steps if need be. Try to end on a high and not into battle with him.


----------



## Kat (13 March 2012)

amymay said:



			The difficulty with moving yards is that the OP may well loose what sounds to be a good support network.

Providing the horse is turned out nice and early (ours are out by 7.00am) and not coming until 3.00 ish that should be offering plenty of turnout.  Obviously many of us bring the horses in later if we're not riding - so potentially this horse could be having 11 hours turnout a day.  Which is more than satisfactory.
		
Click to expand...

Agree, the last thing the OP wants is to move away from a good supportive environment, unless she is going somewhere with more/better support and assistance. unfortunately the type of yards that are able to offer full schooling livery often can't offer 24/7 turnout and it would be better for the OP to get say 8 hours a day turnout on a helpful yard with a safe school and knowledgeable staff/instructors on hand than be stuck on a field or very basic DIY yard with no staff or facilities.


----------



## Farma (13 March 2012)

I owned a total schoolmaster 16'3 i.s.h he was an angel, I took him to shows every fortnight and never had a problem anywhere I went, even the kids at the stables could ride him on their own, I moved to a new yard and he totally lost the plot, he was a different horse, stressed, tense and started showing behaviour that I hadn't seen for the last 4 years of owning him, I tried everything but he got worse and worse until frankly he was becoming dangerous to ride, I bit the bullet and moved back to previous yards and it was like nothing had ever happened. 
I'm not saying that you haven't been 'had' but after my experience I wouldnt rule out that he is just very stressed.
I also agree that some passports will be rubbish, alot of irish horses are bought over in large numbers and sold off so nobody would know much about them. My ish didnt even have a d.o.b just markings and his name etc.


----------



## scarymare (13 March 2012)

amymay said:



			The difficulty with moving yards is that the OP may well loose what sounds to be a good support network.

Providing the horse is turned out nice and early (ours are out by 7.00am) and not coming until 3.00 ish that should be offering plenty of turnout.  Obviously many of us bring the horses in later if we're not riding - so potentially this horse could be having 11 hours turnout a day.  Which is more than satisfactory.
		
Click to expand...

For some horses yes.  But 8 hours out is still 16 hours in which in OP's situation I would say is far from ideal.  It could well be that the horse is too much to soon, or it could be that its regime doesn't suit it.  Either way a 16.3first horse chucking its weight around is not a barrel of laughs that's for sure.


----------



## Morgan123 (13 March 2012)

I agree - he's only six so he wants a lot of stimulation and it oculd well be that overnight in a box is just too much for him (along wiht the new feeding regime). Is there any way your turnout could be increased, OP?

Good luck, nice to hear someone being so careful wiht a new horse to have saddler, physio out etc before sitting on them!! Just sorry it didn't work out for you, but don't give up....


----------



## asommerville (13 March 2012)

Take the market harborough off and try a martingale as that could be what is making him buck (going by experience here!) you sound like you can cope with him though and not freaking abiut it! As he is so big it will take  long time for him to mature


----------



## Mlini (13 March 2012)

Some great advice on here...

I bought my first horse last summer, a 5yr old 16.3hh TB. He was exactly the same - quiet, calm & underweight when I viewed, got him home and he was a whole different horse. 

It does take a lot of work, but when you have built a bond with this horse and got over all these problems, you probably wouldn't change him for the world.  - Obviously, providing there isn't anything wrong with him regarding the lameness/bloods etc.


----------



## EmmasMummy (13 March 2012)

You do sound v grounded, and whilst he does sound a bit fresh, he doesn't sound unmanageable and terrible. 

My horse, who I bought thinking he was my ideal horse, broke my ankle and scared the confidence out of my after 5 months.  But, call me foolish, I persevered.  He was and still is no angel, but we have an understanding. When I got him he was 300kg overweight, and he is a cob and it was summer, so he couldnt move very fast..........but come winter he had nearly dropped it all and could move.   

I went from crying at the thought of jumping or galloping him, to within 6 months of lessons we were jumping 4ft (not courses, just a few) so well, 3ft and I could take him for gallops - and even stop, halt and continue half way through. 

Part of me REALLY wanted to hand him back, but I didnt.  Due to finances I had to loan him out for a year and the girl who took him, well she is a natural rider and also slightly insane I think!  She had only been riding 2 years at the time, and folk warned me off it but they clicked and she did him so much good.  I really think she was the making of him. 

So I do think your idea of the bootcamp is a good one.


----------



## smellsofhorse (13 March 2012)

Give him a chance.
Four weeks is not a long time in a new home.
Yes get everything checked but it sounds more that he is unsure, unsettled and testing you out.

Having your own horse is totally different to bring at a riding school with a horse that is settled and knows its job.

The previous owner may have nothing to hide.
Horse can change quite severely when unsettled.

You said he was under weigh, what are you feeding him?
That may be contributing to the change in behavior.


----------



## MrsB (13 March 2012)

Progress!  Well at least for a solution to the bucking... the physio found he has a sore spot on his back and has said he's to be rested for 2 weeks, have the massage pad twice a day for the 2 weeks and bring him slowly back into work.

He could of easily gone from doing bugger all before to me riding him on a daily basis and this was probably too much for him, although the woman assured me this would be fine - obviously not!  He also has a big bouncy trot and although I have got used to this, if there was a sore spot, it could of easily been irritated which made him buck.

Whilst he's resting I'll carry on grooming and building up a bond with him.  Thanks again!


----------



## Amymay (13 March 2012)

MrsB said:



			Progress!  Well at least for a solution to the bucking... the physio found he has a sore spot on his back and has said he's to be rested for 2 weeks, have the massage pad twice a day for the 2 weeks and bring him slowly back into work.

*He could of easily gone from doing bugger all before to me riding him on a daily basis and this was probably too much for him, although the woman assured me this would be fine - obviously not!  *He also has a big bouncy trot and although I have got used to this, if there was a sore spot, it could of easily been irritated which made him buck.

Whilst he's resting I'll carry on grooming and building up a bond with him.  Thanks again!
		
Click to expand...

This is a really good point actually (and one most of us have failed to pick up on).

Yes, if you have doubts about how much work he's been doing then you're going to need to think carefully about the amount and type of work you do.

It's fine to ride every day, but taking in to account his condition (which you've questioned) etc. and probably lack of fitness.

So when he comes back in to work start from scratch.

Walk, walk and walk some more for about 2 weeks or so, before you introduce some short trot work.  You should aim for 20 mins a day on the roads, building it up to around 40 mins by the end of week 2 etc.

Try to avoid the school.

I'd also get the vet to have a little look at what the lameness issue is (possibly all connected with the back, but who knows.....)


----------



## Mlini (13 March 2012)

Thats good news (well sort of, at least you have found the issue), keep us updated with your progress 

Mine had an issue with his pelvis, after it was fixed, he came on in leaps and bounds  Good luck!


----------



## Stroppy Mare (13 March 2012)

MrsB said:



			Progress!  Well at least for a solution to the bucking... the physio found he has a sore spot on his back and has said he's to be rested for 2 weeks, have the massage pad twice a day for the 2 weeks and bring him slowly back into work.

He could of easily gone from doing bugger all before to me riding him on a daily basis and this was probably too much for him, although the woman assured me this would be fine - obviously not!  He also has a big bouncy trot and although I have got used to this, if there was a sore spot, it could of easily been irritated which made him buck.

Whilst he's resting I'll carry on grooming and building up a bond with him.  Thanks again!
		
Click to expand...

Brilliant.  Can I also suggest you get your saddle checked by an unbiased person? Ie, not a person likely to tell you it fits cos you bought it off them, or that it doesn't 'but I have an excellent saddle which will suit at £1000' etc. If you want to use the sheepskin pad underneath - get the saddle checked with that underneath, if the saddle was fitted previously with nothing then it could be that the numnah is making the saddle too narrow and creating pressure points.

I'd stick him out in a field for as long as possible through the day, and cut out hard feed - IMO, even the feeds claiming to be 'calming' can heat up horses - it depends on the ingredients, some horses may have an intolerance. As for nuts - not sure how your YO can be so definite with the comment regarding their heat-ability. The contents are unknown and nuts are excellent for feed companies as usually contain a mix of pretty much everything. Feed companies do not have to declare what is in the bag.

Nearly 6 years ago, I bought, off a dealer, an 8yo mare. Dealer claimed she was suitable for a nervous novice and she'd had little kids riding her. On my first ride, I was in tears (previous horse trashed my confidence majorly) as she was bucking in every pace on both reins, and IMO, given her lack of experience, was not ideal at the time. But, dealer convinced me that since anyone could ride her, (and her previous owner was a 'frail elderly lady who never had a problem') then I must be useless if I couldn't ride her. Anyway, we were so desperate to find a companion for our other mare, we took her on LWVTB. She was iffy, but I jumped her, hacked her (I was some what petrified mind!) and schooled her, so ended up buying her. 

Had lots of trouble with her bucking, and 18 months down the line into ownership, her bucking had resolved, and she was by no means a perfectly schooled horse, but she was improving. I had a phonecall from a solicitor advising me about a lawsuit regarding an incident in her previous home and her bucking. (So much for 'previous owner never had a problem with her'!) Had two expert riders come out to see her who couldn't fault her, fantastic little horse they said. Now, we're out doing SJ and a few ODEs and hunter trials etc. I wouldn't swap her for the world, regardless of the 'occasion' in which we bought her, however now knowing her history, if I'd have known this prior to purchasing her, I highly doubt I would've cast a second glance at her.


----------



## ReggiePerrin (13 March 2012)

Well done for being calm and don't think you're alone, there are a lot of people on here who have been through a similar thing, myself included.  I bought my first horse in October after waiting 38 years!  He's 6 and had come over from Ireland the week I saw him.  I knew he was a sensitive soul and that I was taking a risk buying so young but, well we can't always help ourselves!.  We've had plenty of issues.  Sometimes I think we're going backwards rather than getting better but I do a lot of looking back at old posts to remind me that we have made progress, even if he's thrown in new issues along the way.  Ultimately he shows me enough of his super cute, affectionate, loyal behaviour for me to want to slowly work through his anxiety issues, but there have been times when I've questioned my own sanity.  I managed to go for my first ride before work this morning and he rewarded me with going down the track without spinning, which he's done everytime since we had an incident with a killer shetland 2 months ago.  Tiny victories make it all worth while!

As everybody has said, 4 weeks is nothing, but only you will know if you want to be in it for the long haul.  There's no shame in admitting defeat.


----------



## xxMozlarxx (13 March 2012)

Hi, contrary to what others have said, a month is not a long time and some horses, especially with Irish blood can be a bit slow to push the boundaries. I had exactly the same experience and was surprised by the change of behaviour, however another month on and it's a very different picture now. By the sounds of your very sensible attitude I think things will come good for you once the trust and partnership is established 
Good luck x


----------



## Mrs B (13 March 2012)

Lord! That had me worried! I though I'd gone out and bought another horse without telling myself...

Good luck OP and let us know how he goes after the 2 week rest


----------



## Aperchristmastree (13 March 2012)

Firstly it sounds like you've been doing a really job in persevering.  Well done, particularly as this is your first horse.

If he has gone from 24/7 turnout to only 6 hours a day I'm not surprised he's a bit fresh.  My boys are very calm laid back horses but would both go loopy on that.  Increase the turnout as much as you can.  I would also cut out any hard feed for the time being and just feed as much hay as he will eat.  Once he has more turnout he will put on weight anyway because of the grass - forage is the best way to put on weight.  How many lessons are you currently having?  Having someone on the ground watching and helping you is completely invaluable and should help you keep your confidence and will give you the tools to deal with his behaviour.  

I wouldn't give up on him yet as he could turn into such a fantastic horse.  The key will be consistency.


----------



## victoriaocarroll (13 March 2012)

Mrs B I feel your pain. I bought my horse 7 weeks ago now and feel like he's gone from good to really naughty, similarly throwing in bucks, napping in the school and spooking at unecessary things. 

I think when they're big horses it's more our safety that we're worried about and I have to admit I've been looking at other horses, thinking of swapping for something more relaxed. My boy is ten years old and I similarly bought him from a field as he had been turned out for 8 months. 

It's a big change for them to come in from the field after months of turnout to being in a stable most of the day and getting back into full schooling. 

But everyone's comments are really encouraging, especially those who say they've been there and fought through the hard times and now have a happy horse. IT's so so difficult to know exactly where our horses came from and there's nothing stopping a seller telling a few lies to get the sale, which I defintely think my horses previous owner did. 

Best of luck with Bruce though, keep us up to date, maybe we can swap notes ;-)


----------



## Frumpoon (13 March 2012)

My twopence worth - I accidentally bought myself a strapping great 17hh warmblood 3 1/2 years ago who went through an extensive and intensive period of trying both my physical endurance and patience 

He was totally worth it though, he's the horse of my dreams and I feel loads safer on him than my other horse 

Im definitely a heart over head person though, I'd say give him time and work on the bond...


----------



## PeterNatt (13 March 2012)

Horses will change when they are moved in to a different environment and different rider.
I allow about 2 years for a horse to fully settle in to its new environment.
I would suggest that you keep your new horse off all processed feeds such as nuts and additives and just feed him soaked hay.
I would also initially for the first six month just excercise him at a walk and get him used to the area by riding him out with an experienced level headed horse.
Unfortunately it is very easy to blow a horses brain with two many changes when they move.


----------



## Passtheshampoo (13 March 2012)

Firstly I think you sound like the perfect owner and you have one lucky horse! I keep my horses out 24/7 and never have any "fresh" moments so I do think the change in routine will have caused some of your problems. My rising 6yrs hombred RID mare has had 3 months off as I was bringing up a litter of pups so is just coming back into work. Last year we just hacked to get miles on the clock as Irish horses can be slow to mature as others have said. I'm just starting to have flatwork lessons on her as I feel she is now physically and mentally more able to cope with them. After her break she had reverted to factory setting which was napping and getting a bit argumentative with me, in other words testing the boundaries. These issues are being ironed out and I know she'll improve with time.

One thing I would suggest doing which I've found really useful with my horse is to keep a riding diary. It's amazing how I tend to think we haven't improved much until I look back over the previous weeks.   

Best of luck with your horse, I hope things improve but if they don't please don't feel a failure if you have to sell him on to a more experienced home. Let's face it horses are expensive hobbies and there's no fun keeping a horse you are frightened to ride.


----------



## MrsB (13 March 2012)

Well thanks again everyone for all your support.  I can see light at the end of the tunnel and I'm looking forward to having 2 weeks off for Boris to rest, plus for my shoulder to heal as well!  I always ride out with quiet and experienced horses/people... I'd never ride him out on my own either in the school or hacking out for another year or so... or until I feel he feels at home.

The physio said he was great to treat, that he was very inflamed and he dealt with her very well (she said for what she did, she was surprised she didn't get booted!) and she's given me a run-down of what treatment he'll have over the 2 weeks, under the supervision of my instructor/yard owner.  She also thinks his lameness is linked to his back as he's over-compensating on one side.

So I am feeling much more positive and hope that once this is sorted, I can go back to basics with him and we can both learn from eachother, because deep down I know he is a good boy and he is on the whole good natured.  And I know that once settled, he will be a lovely horse, he moves so nicely, it's like he floats when on the lunge!

I have one silly question though... what is OP?!? 

And thanks again guys!


----------



## lilly1 (13 March 2012)

MrsB said:



			I have one silly question though... what is OP?!? 

And thanks again guys!
		
Click to expand...

You - original poster .  Keep us posted.  You sound like you are doing everything right!


----------



## Amymay (13 March 2012)

Were you there when the physio treated him?


----------



## MrsB (13 March 2012)

I wasn't there for the actual treatment, but explained all that had gone on to the physio with Boris - I work literally around the corner from the yard (30 seconds walk), but had to dash back.  The YO was there and the physio rang me after, as well as the YO summarising his treatment.

I am very much looking forward to bringing him back into work very gently and like I said before, am in a much more positive frame of mind, knowing he did actually have an issue which was causing him pain.

I'm on a huge learning curve (I knew I would be and was prepared for that), but know I have the right help and support around me to get the best for me and Boris, and that includes you all 

Will keep you all posted as to his/our progress!


----------



## ladyt25 (13 March 2012)

I def think you need to just stick at it - 6 yo is still so very young and 16.3hh is a big horse. It takes a while for them to sort out where their legs are! She may well have done dressage on him - doesn't mean she did very well! Anyone can ter a competition and make it round an arena after all.

I think it's perfectly normal to have a crisis of confidence whey you buy a horse, especially your first horse as you ahve all these expectations and excitement and, in reality in can be a bit more hard work to start with. You definitely need to get to know each other, he needs to trust you and vice versa - he's had to cope with a fair bit of change, some horses can cope better than others and you have to adapt to how they react to their surroundings. Just try and always remain confident and firm and treat him asyou would expect a grown up horse to behave when it comes to handling - ok, he's young but it doesn't mean he can push his luck! Firm but fair is my motto - horses don't like people pussy footing around them, they need to know thsir handler is confident as they get confidence from that.

I hope things do improve, you will have to keep us all updated.


----------



## emmab13 (13 March 2012)

PeterNatt said:



			Horses will change when they are moved in to a different environment and different rider.
I allow about 2 years for a horse to fully settle in to its new environment.
I would suggest that you keep your new horse off all processed feeds such as nuts and additives and just feed him soaked hay.
I would also initially for the first six month just excercise him at a walk and get him used to the area by riding him out with an experienced level headed horse.
Unfortunately it is very easy to blow a horses brain with two many changes when they move.
		
Click to expand...

Sorry, must disagree with this. When horses come to us from Ireland they get 24 hours to snooze in their boxes. Then I get on, walk trot and canter in the school, jump some showjumps, maybe a water tray. Then we go and jump a couple of XC jumps, height depending on age and ability. 
Then I take them down the road, OMG BY THEMSELVES. 

In 10 years of doing this I can count on one hand the number of horses that have said no to any of this, and can count on two fingers the number of horses that really, really meant it when they said no. The rest just responded to firm but fair riding.

If you start how you mean to go on, there is no reason at all why you should walk for six months (SIX MONTHS?). 

This is not directed at the OP at all, as she quite clearly has cracked on and got on with it. Its just her horse has gone "from a youth hostel to the Ritz" and is enjoying all the facilities!


----------



## MrsB (13 March 2012)

emmab13 said:



			This is not directed at the OP at all, as she quite clearly has cracked on and got on with it. Its just her horse has gone "from a youth hostel to the Ritz" and is enjoying all the facilities!
		
Click to expand...

Thanks EmmaB, I know he'll take time to adjust and what he's got now is a huge difference to what he was used to - after he's been turned out for a couple of hours, he's back by the gate and wants to come in, he does seem very happy and relaxed in his box.

And Lady25T - totally agree with the firm/fair approach and have taken these steps already... I am a mum so understand that ethic completely!

My instructor/YO is helping me every step of the way (haven't said this before, but she's my OH's Aunt, with stunning horses of her own (competition & a stallion) and has run her own yard for years) and she's showing me what's normal behaviour, what's rude, what is good and bad manners and how to discipline and praise him.  She estimates that it takes approx. a year for a horse to fully settle in, but she says the more time I spend with him the better and I love grooming him and he falls asleep when I do this which is lovely... so he must be relaxed enough to do that!

He will be a very spoiled and much loved boy, so here's hoping we can make it together!


----------



## Tammytoo (13 March 2012)

I would use Boris's rest period to cut out all the hard feed, give ad lib hay and get as much turnout for him as you can.  Once he gets 24 hr turnout I think you'll find he becomes a different horse!   You can start gradually introducing hard feed if you feel he needs it.  

My first thoughts on his behaviour were pain and/or feed related.  It sounds as if you have very sensibly addressed the pain problem and his diet will be a work in progress.

You seem to be very well supported at your yard and with your sensible attitude I bet in 6 months time you will have a very different tale to tell us!


----------



## Echo Bravo (13 March 2012)

I agree with PETERNATT, time is a great thing, and time is what this horse needs, whether 2 years or 6 months, I was also taught that it takes 12 months for a horse and rider to bond, in other words to get use to each other, as the horse may have been taught aids and ridden oneway and the new owner/rider rides differently from what it has been use too.But time nowadays seems to be in short supply,everything has to be now!now! reminds me of the Queens song. I want it all and I want it now.I've had my young foal since Sept and he and I are still learning about each other,1 step forward and 3 steps back some days,but I know if handled properly that in the future if I every decided to sell him,he's going to make someone a very good horse,but I'm keeping him for me


----------



## MrsB (13 March 2012)

Stroppy Mare said:



			Brilliant.  Can I also suggest you get your saddle checked by an unbiased person? Ie, not a person likely to tell you it fits cos you bought it off them, or that it doesn't 'but I have an excellent saddle which will suit at £1000' etc. If you want to use the sheepskin pad underneath - get the saddle checked with that underneath, if the saddle was fitted previously with nothing then it could be that the numnah is making the saddle too narrow and creating pressure points.
		
Click to expand...

I bought the saddle (GP) from one of the ladies at the yard (can't remember the make, but I know it's a decent one) after the saddler came and tried a few that we had at the yard which we tried on him and the saddler said that this was the best fitting one, so it was unbiased as we didn't buy it from him and he doesn't sell them anyway, he only fits them.  I also had the sheepskin numnah plus a plain saddle cloth (high withers as Boris needs to build up muscle) and a seperate sheepskin pad and all were fine.  Obivously not using all at once - just wanted to make that clear!!!

When he returns to work I will have the saddle checked again just to make sure it's still ok for him.

Thanks!


----------



## AFlapjack (13 March 2012)

Am I the only one who wants to see Boris photos? 

Good luck MrsB, sounds like you're doing everything you can for him


----------



## Flame_ (13 March 2012)

Echo Bravo said:



			I agree with PETERNATT, time is a great thing, and time is what this horse needs, whether 2 years or 6 months, I was also taught that it takes 12 months for a horse and rider to bond, in other words to get use to each other, as the horse may have been taught aids and ridden oneway and the new owner/rider rides differently from what it has been use too.But time nowadays seems to be in short supply,everything has to be now!
		
Click to expand...

Yes and no. It does take twelve months for any horse and rider to really get to know one another and develop a strong relationship, but at the same time an awful lot of injuries can happen in twelve months if you chose to persevere with a horse that is too much for you. Plus most horses don't want or need fannying about with, they're just happy to get on with a job if they're well backed. It does sound in this case like its just a few teething problems and all will be fine, but if the OP is to have any hope of returning the horse should she need it, it would have to be *now* if the horse were, in fact, one of the unsuitable ones. She can't give the horse six to twelve months whilst being bucked off a few times then decide to return it. If you don't want to send it away OP just get a good professional to come to you for a few days on the run and help you put the horse through its paces a bit.


----------



## MrsB (14 March 2012)

I've uploaded a couple of piccies of Boris (I've got an album which I think you can all see), I'm due to take another one on Sunday, it'll be 4 weeks since I got him and already the changes are clearly noticeable!






Hope this works!


----------



## MrsB (14 March 2012)

Here's Boris, taken 3 days after he arrived with me... he's looking much better now and I'll take another pic in the next few days


----------



## Amymay (14 March 2012)

Oh, MrsB he is lovely.  What a stunner he's going to be once he's put condition and muscle on and has his summer coat.  As I've said previously - don't rush him.  He's big, immature and very lacking in condition.  He'll be a different horse in 6 months with careful work and management.

Lucky, lucky lady!


----------



## MrsB (14 March 2012)

Thanks Amymay.  I just had a little cuddle with him, my office is right next to his field!  I'll certainly be taking my time with him, if only to let my shoulder heal after I went flying off him the other day


----------



## PolarSkye (14 March 2012)

First - I have only read the first two pages of replies, so apologies if I'm being repetitive/irrelevant.

But . . . I found myself in a very similar position to you when we bought Kal - only he took 4 months to really start testing me.  He was sold to us as a novice ride (he isn't), he was sold to us as professionally schooled (he wasn't - or if he was I'd like to know what he was schooled in!) . . . he was lean (hunting fit), weak and weedy looking.  The woman who sold him to us, although a lovely person, knew I would be sharing him with my 13-year-old daughter.

He couldn't walk in a straight line, wouldn't take a contact, wasn't at all balanced, rushed in every pace, was bolshy/barge-y, wouldn't stand still when tied/would swing his quarters around and knock you over.  He didn't stand still to be mounted, I couldn't mount with or carry a whip.  He could be incredibly sharp in the school - he'd spook all the way across the arena, dropping his shoulder - in about a nanosecond.  He couldn't canter left at all without going disunited behind.  The kicker came when he span, reared and threatened to bolt with me on a road!!!

Some of his issues were just stress at being in a new place, some were how he'd been ridden/schooled before and some were him testing his new, and rather novice-y, owners.

I won't lie - at one point I was terrified of riding him - and he wasn't much fun to handle either.

However, with alot of help and support, we are now a true partnership.  I had to learn to "man up" and give him firm boundaries both on the ground and when on board.  I completely reassessed his feed (molasses sends him right round the twist) - I'd prefer he had as much fibre as possible with supplements and/or balancers than lots of high protein, high sugar feed.

Two years on we are hacking out in company with no issues, he is a delight to ride in the school . . . I ride in spurs and carry a schooling whip with no bother.  He trusts me and I have learned to trust him.  He knows what I expect from him.  Yes, he is still quirky and sharp . . . but he is so much more settled - and I honestly wouldn't swap him now.  

Kali has always been a sweet horse with a huuuuge personality - that hasn't gone away . . . but he's now much more respectful and I actually enjoy riding him (as opposed to cacking myself regularly!).

Get some help . . . take things slow.  Four weeks isn't a long time.  By all means get the bloods run . . . definitely reassess and adjust his feed . . . do lots of groundwork with him to establish trust/boundaries.  Don't let him get away with ANYthing - but be kind and fair.  At 6 he's still young - especially for a big boy.  The bucking would worry me . . . I'd definitely get either a vet or a physio to check that out . . . make sure it isn't physical before you assume it's naughtiness (I've always been very glad that Kal doesn't buck under saddle, so I don't envy you).

Good luck!

P


----------



## MrsB (14 March 2012)

Thanks PolarS - the bucking is down to pain, the physio disgnosed a sore spot on his back yesterday and he's now having treatment for that plus 2 weeks off to recouperate.

I said previously that although the woman who I bought him off said he did regular work, I don't think he did and then I come along doing a little bit everday and I think it was too much for him at once.

Still, things are looking up and I'm a lot more positive than I was this time yesterday, plus I can't believe how many replies and views I've had to this - thanks so much everyone!


----------



## Skippys Mum (14 March 2012)

Everyone has already said it but it might be worth mentioning again that some horses do heat up on supposedly non heating feed.

Arnie is apparently extremely intolerant of sugar.  Even too many carrots (as in half a dozen)can send him over the edge (but try telling his granny that!).  Most feed balancers, any form of beet pulp (including all the unmollased versions) and even things like fast fibre can send him loopy.

Sadly, it took me a lot of years to realise this.  I now avoid any form of mollasses (and your nuts are almost definately going to include mollasses - they use them to bind them) and feed magnesium routinely partly as a calmer and partly for his feet.  At this time of year when the grass is starting to come through and is low in magnesium I up the amount.

Now that I have all that sussed, I have my dream boy!

6 is also a funny age for big horses.  They can get a bit cocky and stroppy just because they are growing up and dont quite know what to do with themselves 

It really doesnt sound as though you've been "had" as such.  I would almost be more inclined to put the blame on your experienced friend who came with you.  A big, underweight, living out 6 year old is always going to ring alarm bells as far as "suitable for a novice" goes.  Boris is adorable and he looks like a big, gentle giant.  I really hope it works out well for both of you.  Hopefully all you will need is a wee rethink of the management aspect and get his back sorted.

Good luck with him


----------



## Amymay (14 March 2012)

A big, underweight, living out 6 year old is always going to ring alarm bells as far as "suitable for a novice" goes.
		
Click to expand...

I would 100% agree with you on this.

I _do_ think that the OP may have been let down by her advisers - and should probably have been told that this was possibly not the horse for her, under those conditions.

However, I think they may actually just get on fine.  I have everything crossed for a brilliant outcome and wonderful success story.

I'm actually rather jealous, as Boris is just my type!


----------



## MrsB (14 March 2012)

The previous owner didn't tell me he lived out until a week after I'd had him... she wasn't straight up with me by any means... and the person who came with me told her exactly what I was looking for and the woman agreed to everything and said that Boris was the perfect match!

There could be a number of reasons why she kept him skinny, my initial instincts are that she did this to keep him under control and my second one is that maybe she couldn't afford to feed him properly - she had about another 5 horses (not for sale, Boris was the only one she was selling).

Anyhoo, he's now my responsibility and I'm going to do the best I can for him and me with a realistic view of if it doesn't work out, then I'd rather give him away to an experienced and loving home whilst being honest about him, instead of selling him for as much as I can to whoever will buy him - that's just not me...


----------



## Kat (14 March 2012)

He is gorgeous, good luck with him, can't wait to see some updated pictures showing how he has improved. He'll look fab with a bit more muscle and his summer coat.


----------



## EmmasMummy (14 March 2012)

MrsB said:



			I've uploaded a couple of piccies of Boris (I've got an album which I think you can all see), I'm due to take another one on Sunday, it'll be 4 weeks since I got him and already the changes are clearly noticeable!






Hope this works!
		
Click to expand...

Awwwwwwwwww, he has a very nice eye, looks so sweet.  I think you really do have your Ideal horse.  Horse ownership is NEVER straight forward. It is messy, tiring heart breaking and exhilarating and fills y our heart all at the same time.

He looks lovely, and with some muscle and all groomed and  proud I bet he looks AMAZING! (Plus he is chestnut, I love chestnuts .....never met a bad one!)


----------



## Copperpot (14 March 2012)

I have been thru the same as this. Bought a 5 year old ISH who is 16.3h and boy could could he buck!! I lost my confidence and almost sold him. So glad I didn't. He is 8 now and I would never part with him. He did not fully mature until last year I would say. He may do the odd buck now but nothing like he used to. I think he just found certain things hard. I have also found I have to keep him fit. I gave him a lot of last summer off and the bucking was bad again. As soon as he is fit and muscles are all in the right place, it stops. Good luck


----------



## milesjess (14 March 2012)

Some good advice on here for you. It took my horse about 3-4 months to settle properly. Through it all I though I had a loon but sounds like you certainly have your hands full there.

Give him a fair amount of time and see how he turns out as he really is stunning  

Make sure you have a good instructor to help you. 

Maybe try him living out? I know it took the edge off my horse completely and a change of feed helped too. 

Good luck!


----------



## Suechoccy (14 March 2012)

Wow, I posted a few pages back about his feed and letting him settle in.

Just seen the photos. He has a good look about him and if you take your time, give him time, let him mature, take things slowly and carefully, I reckon you're going to have an absolute beaut of a horse there.  Don't think in terms of 2 weeks or 2 months, but say 2 years.  Two years from now, if you've kept him, you'll look back over the journey you've had, and although it may have been an eventful one, I reckon you'll be really glad you've kept him and will have a lovely bond with him and be able to do what you want to do with him by then too. Good luck!


----------



## meesha (14 March 2012)

he looks like a lovely chap "he is going to be big on filling out !!" cant wait to see the pics in a few weeks after he has started to benefit from the tlc and good grass coming through.

Not suprised he has been a bit awkward as bless him he has no muscle, couple of weeks off you are giving him and bringing him back in slowly and I bet you will have a totally different happy, horse.

Good for you for sticking with it and asking advice, he is a lucky boy !


----------



## Spring Feather (14 March 2012)

MrsB said:



			and the person who came with me told her exactly what I was looking for and the woman agreed to everything and said that Boris was the perfect match!
		
Click to expand...

When I'm viewing horses I personally tell the seller nothing, or very little about what I'm looking for as it leads them to saying what you want to hear.  It's better off letting the sellers mouth run away with them and pick through what has been said.

You've had great advice so no point in anyone saying any more but would like to query you saying his passport saying he was born in 2005 and you questioning him being sold as a 6 year old.  Well if he was born in 2005, to 2011 would make him 6 and he'd be rising 7 later this year, so unless there's something else that's dodgy on the passport, it's likely it's his and correct.

He looks like he'll be a nice stamp of a horse once he's filled out and muscled up and you sound like you're going to give him the very best chance of succeeding   I really hope it works out for you.


----------



## Tammytoo (14 March 2012)

Spring Feather said:



			You've had great advice so no point in anyone saying any more but would like to query you saying his passport saying he was born in 2005 and you questioning him being sold as a 6 year old.  Well if he was born in 2005, to 2011 would make him 6 and he'd be rising 7 later this year, so unless there's something else that's dodgy on the passport, it's likely it's his and correct.
		
Click to expand...

If he was born in 2005, he will be 7 rising 8 this year 2012!


----------



## ridefast (14 March 2012)

Tammytoo said:



			If he was born in 2005, he will be 7 rising 8 this year 2012!
		
Click to expand...

No he will be rising 7...


----------



## PolarSkye (14 March 2012)

Spring Feather said:



			When I'm viewing horses I personally tell the seller nothing, or very little about what I'm looking for as it leads them to saying what you want to hear.  It's better off letting the sellers mouth run away with them and pick through what has been said.

You've had great advice so no point in anyone saying any more but would like to query you saying his passport saying he was born in 2005 and you questioning him being sold as a 6 year old.  Well if he was born in 2005, to 2011 would make him 6 and he'd be rising 7 later this year, so unless there's something else that's dodgy on the passport, it's likely it's his and correct.

He looks like he'll be a nice stamp of a horse once he's filled out and muscled up and you sound like you're going to give him the very best chance of succeeding   I really hope it works out for you.
		
Click to expand...

This ^^^^^^ . . . totally agree with everything SF has said here .  Wish I had had this advice when I went horse hunting . . . next time (although I hope there is no next time - want Kal to live to a ripe old age), I will keep shtum.

P


----------



## Chestnuttymare (14 March 2012)

not read everything but check the starch levels, some say low starch and are about 15%, which isn't low. Magnesium is also sometimes lacking at this time of the year so might be worth getting some magnitusde from equine america. also 4 weeks isn't a lot for settling in, remember it is a new place, new horses, new mum, new routine. That is quite a lot for a horse to deal with. Bear with him, he is beautiful and has such a kind face. You are obviously calm and sensible so the pair of you will work it out. spend time with him just bonding without putting him under pressure so he really enjoys your company.  That's my tuppence worth lol You will be fine. I have the same story as a lot of people here, my girl was emotionally damaged and was really difficult, we worked her out and she really is my perfect horse now, wouldn't swop her for anything now.


----------



## MissMincePie&Brandy (14 March 2012)

MrsB said:



			Here's Boris, taken 3 days after he arrived with me... he's looking much better now and I'll take another pic in the next few days 






Click to expand...

Oh he is going to be fabulous. However I would never pair up such an immature, big, underweight young horse to someone who was looking to buy their first horse. 

I think you'd probably be well advised to ditch your current 'advisors' from the RS and get a more experienced instructor now, and one who is willing to ride him every now and then themselves.   With the right work and management, and with help from the right people I'm sure you'll develop a great partnership, and have a super horse in the future


----------



## guesstimation (14 March 2012)

Can't add to what anyone else has said but he's a lucky horse and its often the ones we end up unintentionally having to work through things with that end up being very rewarding and having a great bond. Good luck I hope it works out for you both


----------



## Skippys Mum (14 March 2012)

OP, have you noticed that normally these threads are "take him back", "sell him on" and yet everyone seems to be rooting for Big Boris 

I suspect you are stuck with him  - he has a fan club


----------



## meesha (15 March 2012)

Do we get stickers if we are in the fan club - used to be in the dennis the menace fanclub and got great stickers etc...............(i am not 7 ... honestly ...)

ps...   some more recent pictures please of big (soon to be bigger) beautiful boris


----------



## Chestnuttymare (15 March 2012)

Skippys Mum said:



			OP, have you noticed that normally these threads are "take him back", "sell him on" and yet everyone seems to be rooting for Big Boris 

I suspect you are stuck with him  - he has a fan club 

Click to expand...

wish there was a 'like' button on here.
Big B deserves a nice mum like you.


----------



## MrsMozart (15 March 2012)

He is going to be a big, powerful bobbo 

If you can get all that power and engergy contained, you'll have a whale of a time lass!

How goes he today (and you!)?


----------



## MrsMozart (15 March 2012)

Can't remember if I've said on the sugar/heating foods front:

Grey Mare is pretty lively anyway, but went explosive on Speedibeat (think 180 degree leaps in the air, cantering sideways the entire length of the school, and handstand bucks so big even D looked a little alarmed - luckily D1 sat it all and they stayed in the school ). 

It took us a little while to figure it out. I checked numerous times as to the sugar content of Speedibeat and was constantly told it should not be relevant. We tracked back the change in behaviour, cut it out, and now she's much better . We're very, very careful about what she gets to eat now - not so much as a carrot passes her lips (too much sugar).


----------



## wes (15 March 2012)

My wife and I got a 5 year old Irish Sports X about 15 months ago, and he is a crossed with a thoroughbred...so can be more hyper then others. Not sure what type of cross yours is.

He was lacking in the conditioning and for the first few months was quite a lively ride, and had to be lunged first to get the pep out of his pants.

As well as riding him ourselves, we had him schooled a few times a week for about 4-6 weeks in the early days.

We have gone through a few stages with him, he was fine with feet when we got him then went through a stage of not wanting his feet picked up, but we kept doing it and ended up having to have be a bit persuasive and not give up for him to realise he wasn't going to win. He's perfect with his feet again now and has been for some time.

Just recently he went through a spate of swishing his tail or stamping a foot when doing up his girth for a few weeks.  He never changed his ride, and tightening the girth was not a problem, or mounting or riding.  I think he is still being just a teenager and trying to be stroppy.  When he was being silly I gave him a gentle slap on the shoulder and used my angry voice (not shouting). He seems to be getting better at it again now.

He is lovely to ride, but he can be rather spirited, and if I try and hack him for over 30 minutes in walk he seems to start throwing his head a bit in frustration. Nothing really nasty...he just seems to get bored walking.

If he has stable rest due to bad weather, or not ridden for a week then he can be more fresh than normal.

When we got him his balance was poor, and he would trip quite a bit, and we couldn't hold a canter for more than a few strides...we were born again riders again (early 50's), so quite the novice.

He is 7 now, and although much calmer than his initial skittish behavior he can still get excited and sometimes pops into a canter when trotting, or can get a bit excited when cantering and starts rushing.

I don't think any of his behavior has ever been spiteful, but as I said being crossed with a thoroughbred he tends to be more of a sports model then some of the other Irish sports horses I've seen. 

I think it just takes time to get to know each other, and I think they do change quite a bit when young.  I also think, the younger they are the more they feed off the rider, so if your nervous then they feel it and get nervous themselves.


----------



## MrsB (30 March 2012)

Hi Everyone 

Unfortunately Boris is still lame  The vet was out with him today and I think he's going to them next week to find out exactly what's wrong with him - she did say something, but I can't remember what it was (syntis something?!? not sure!).  He's got a very short range of movement on his front which isn't how he was when I first got him, he had lovely extended movement and now hasn't.  Bloods came back clear, but I still have my doubts...

Anyway, he is much, much more settled now.  We are forming a lovely bond, he nuzzles me softly when I groom him, doesn't faff about or stamp his feet as much when being groomed, is much better at picking up his feet and is more pleasant to feed too.  He's a very affectionate boy and I really really hope that his lameness isn't too serious.... fingers crossed!

I've attached another pic of him, this was taken 2 weeks ago and today you can't see his ribs and his coat is looking gorgeous too.

Also, he was shod with incorrect shoes, the previous farrier (from where I bought him) shod him with the same size shoes, even though his front feet aren't the same size - this made his foot sore and gave him a corn... unbelieveable, pure muppetry!

Thanks again for all your lovely and positive replies, they're much appreciated!


----------



## ladyt25 (30 March 2012)

Just read through this thread again - when did he go lame? have I missed a thread? He certainly looks like he's put on some condition since the first pic you posted which is great as shows he has no health issues causing him to be that underweight. Imagine what he's going to lookj like once the grass comes through properly and he sheds his coat!!

Hopefully, like most lamenesses it'll be something easily treatable - I have had my horse off lame for 5 weekls before with an abscess that was never actually found but that's what it eventually turned out to be. More often than not, lamenesses are short-lived so hopefully this will be the case with Boris


----------



## MrsB (30 March 2012)

The vet did a series of blocking/numbing jabs, but unfortunately I had to go and pick up my daughter before she had finished the treatment.  I'll find out tomorrow from my instructor/YO with what her findings were and what the course of treatment is.

His foot isn't sore from the corn which is positive and the physio has cleared his back, so it's something else, hopefully, like LadyT says is can be resolved.

Yes, he's certainly looking ten times better than when he first came to me.  I groom him everyday to help his coat, plus it's helping the bond between us and he's a pleasure to be around!


----------



## smellsofhorse (8 April 2012)

I really feel for you.

But just think of the happiness you have given Boris, looking after him and caring for him properly after buying him from this silly dealer.

I wish you luck with him however much he is able to improve


----------



## Luci07 (8 April 2012)

I am sorry to hear you have been through all this. Please keep us updated on your progress too. 

I too have a young ISH having said I would not do this again. Circumstances dictated as did finances and the fact I have a very healthy albeit elderly mare so could not take on an older horse. Mine also went out over night, had done little and was on basic food. And then my story changes from you. He has come from a well known local event rider. Has had everything done properly and my vet took 2 hours to vet him. He was put on build up but came off that quite quickly...might be low energy but it's high starch.

Keeping my fingers crossed for you...


----------



## indie999 (8 April 2012)

So sorry to read this is terrible for the horse, for you etc. 

Sorry blooming horse people tell some right porkers. That is dreadful and when I went looking last year met many mini dealers. I even had one lady(a riding school big yard) who snapped back I am not a dealer, yet advertises as trade and has website with horses she has sold.

But equally met mum/daughter set up selling from back garden! The horses were not the family pets etc and had obviously being passed along after a bit of work. Urgh. Nice little earner.

I hope you have good insurance and at least its per horse so whatever can be done can be done for Boris. It might not seem it but in a way he is lucky he has someone interested in his well being.


----------



## MrsB (8 April 2012)

If he's also got sus. damage in his hinds he'll be PTS, they are not happy operating on hinds as well.  If it's only his fronts, they can operate however, the rehab will be extremely difficult for me to handle.

He will have to have 3 weeks box rest, 2-4 weeks of walking in hand and then bringing back to work very, very gently, all in all taking approx. 6 months.  What will make things hard is that he is very difficult to turn out, he can be very unpredictable, there is no consistency to his behaviour when being turned out either.  He can be fine one day and a raving lunatic the next, he has dragged my YO across the field before and only she will handle him.  He is still aggressive when feeding him, although this has improved slightly.

And now he is feeling better and in an improved condition, he really is difficult.  This is not a horse you can handle easily...

If all goes well, I have a contact in the Met Police who are very interested in him where they could do the rehab for me and he will stay there until he is retired from work.  He is way too much horse for me, I don't have the experience to ride or handle him and he really is a man's horse.  I also know some good hunting homes where he could go to as well, but of course this all depends on his hind legs coming sound.

It infuriates me beyond belief that this woman has done this to me, she doesn't give a flying crap about the horses or who she's selling to, all she cares about is the money in her pocket.  Sad thing is, I'm not the only one she has conned


----------



## xxMozlarxx (8 April 2012)

MrsB said:



			If he's also got sus. damage in his hinds he'll be PTS, they are not happy operating on hinds as well.  If it's only his fronts, they can operate however, the rehab will be extremely difficult for me to handle.

He will have to have 3 weeks box rest, 2-4 weeks of walking in hand and then bringing back to work very, very gently, all in all taking approx. 6 months.  What will make things hard is that he is very difficult to turn out, he can be very unpredictable, there is no consistency to his behaviour when being turned out either.  He can be fine one day and a raving lunatic the next, he has dragged my YO across the field before and only she will handle him.  He is still aggressive when feeding him, although this has improved slightly.

And now he is feeling better and in an improved condition, he really is difficult.  This is not a horse you can handle easily...
If all goes well, I have a contact in the Met Police who are very interested in him where they could do the rehab for me and he will stay there until he is retired from work.  He is way too much horse for me, I don't have the experience to ride or handle him and he really is a man's horse.  I also know some good hunting homes where he could go to as well, but of course this all depends on his hind legs coming sound

It infuriates me beyond belief that this woman has done this to me, she doesn't give a flying crap about the horses or who she's selling to, all she cares about is the money in her pocket.  Sad thing is, I'm not the only one she has conned 

Click to expand...

, please don't consider a hunting home for a horse with significant suspensory damage!!


----------



## MrsB (8 April 2012)

I am taking Boris' future extremely seriously.  I am not going to send him somewhere that I don't know.  I am well aware of the consquences of the damage he has and I am also taking advice from my vet and YO.

I will do what is best for my horse and whilst I appreciate your input xxMozalarxx, I am exploring every option for him and if, *IF* a hunting home is a viable option for him (horses can still hunt and jump with sus. damage if it is managed well after the operation) and I know exactly where he is going and he can receive a fulfilling and healthly life, then that is where he will go.


----------



## indie999 (8 April 2012)

I think try a bit of treatment but if its not really going to make a difference??only your vet can advise but just make sure its really in the horses best interest(my vet is great but I would need to be reassured that surgery is 100% going to have a positive outcome) and then I suppose the next thing is will he make a good companion if retired? ie leading him already sounds bad?. Maybe the pain etc is why he has been difficult horse in first place?
If the Met can help you and he is already difficult I would just grab that option for him.

Then as you say PTS might be the long term best option.

Very experienced horse people do get caught out at some stage. I hope you can get redress with the seller. Wonder where they got him from? ie if you can contact a previous owner etc.


----------



## Clodagh (8 April 2012)

That is such a shame. Did you only have a 2 stage though? (Haven't read all replies, sorry) if so I don't think you will have any comeback.
I hope it works out for Boris.


----------



## BlackRider (8 April 2012)

Clodagh said:



			That is such a shame. Did you only have a 2 stage though? (Haven't read all replies, sorry) if so I don't think you will have any comeback.
I hope it works out for Boris.
		
Click to expand...

I was just thinking this too, unless you've had the 5 stage vetting done, I don't think you'll have any comeback on the vetting.

Sorry to hear about what you've been going through - Boris looks a nice sort, and I hope for the best possible outcome for you both.


----------



## Goldenstar (8 April 2012)

xxMozlarxx said:



, please don't consider a hunting home for a horse with significant suspensory damage!!
		
Click to expand...

I agree with this my OH is hunting mad and I have been involved since childhood hunting is not a job for a horse who has had suspensory surgery.
I just retread the beginning of the thread and realised it was only a two stage vetting this may get the vet off the hook you need good advice.


----------



## MrsB (8 April 2012)

Yes it was stage 2, but the vet is as dodgy as a 9-bob-note, has a terrible reputation and has previously been struck off, all unbeknown to me until after.

Yes, I will have comeback, I know I will, I have evidence on this woman.

Boris has been through a series of dodgy dealers in Kent as I've traced his history and his life has been quite traumatic.

Yes the police is the best bet, only if his hinds are sound - if not, he will be PTS as it's the kindest and most humane option for him.  At least I can give him some peace in his awful life that these bastards have given him until I found him.


----------



## Clodagh (8 April 2012)

I think you are being great by him, and all the best for making this woman pay.
There are two horses at the yard I work at who came from dealers in Kent, both are lame in more ways than you would think it was possible for any one horse to be. So sad.


----------



## Luci07 (8 April 2012)

Just remember when talking to the trading standards etc, you need to strip out horse speak and make no assumptions as to their level of knowledge about horses. People can't  follow the conversation ...

So it's down to the ...bought horse off person who said was private. This means they were trying to avoid the protection you would get if they were deemed to be a business. I appreciate trying to get money from a dealer is not great but you legally have more comeback than against a private individual. The it's, goods were sold and not as described. Finally, you paid for a professionals opinion. Now I would ask your own vet to look at the vetting details and ask what their thoughts are.  Its a long shot but still worth it. The point of taking out equine speak is that it might not mean anything to a non horse person and you won't be able to,clarify your position.


----------



## Bubbles (8 April 2012)

I'm confused as to why having a two stage vetting lets the vet off the hook - a two stage still involves a full examination of the limbs and soundness of the horse, and more to the point, the certificate was falsified. 
Poor Boris, and poor you. I think the Met would be a great option for both of you, fingers crossed for a happy ending.


----------



## indie999 (8 April 2012)

MrsB said:



			Yes it was stage 2, but the vet is as dodgy as a 9-bob-note, has a terrible reputation and has previously been struck off, all unbeknown to me until after.

Yes, I will have comeback, I know I will, I have evidence on this woman.

Boris has been through a series of dodgy dealers in Kent as I've traced his history and his life has been quite traumatic.

Yes the police is the best bet, only if his hinds are sound - if not, he will be PTS as it's the kindest and most humane option for him.  At least I can give him some peace in his awful life that these bastards have given him until I found him.
		
Click to expand...

Sounds like you have the best course of action and realistic one. Good luck. If you dont get anywhere just let as many people know what these folks  have put a horse and now you through. Even though its a nightmare sorting this out one way or another it needs to be. I still think Boris has been lucky to find an owner who is getting to the bottom of his troubles. Shame the others are not so caring. Should be banned from having horses.


----------



## meesha (8 April 2012)

MrsB - you poor thing, what a horrible position for someone to have put you in.  It sounds like you are investigating all possibilities in terms of treatment and quite rightly preparing yourself that you may have to make the pts decision at some point.   

He is lucky to have found you as I am sure you will do the right thing by him.  I dont know anything about suspensory damage but dont take offence at those saying a hunting home is not for him - hunting is a very high impact, hard job for any horse and you would want a 100% horse with no niggling issues to take on that kind of job.

Fingers crossed for you and Boris that he comes right and also that you manage to get the seller done for this.


----------



## Flame_ (8 April 2012)

^^^^^^ Good point that. Mrs B you need to think about whether it is better insurance wise for it to be perfectly plausible that these injuries could have happened more than two weeks post purchase, ie if you want treatment covering, in which case you *do not* want to make out that the horse came injured, or whether it is better to expect to pay for/not proceed with veterinary investigations and treatment whilst pursuing the vet and dealer for some money back that end if you see what I'm getting at?


----------



## Stace (8 April 2012)

Good luk MrsB and I hope you get all the answers you are after


----------



## Amaranta (8 April 2012)

xxMozlarxx said:



, please don't consider a hunting home for a horse with significant suspensory damage!!
		
Click to expand...


Sorry but I also agree with this!


----------



## Pearlsasinger (8 April 2012)

Can I just wish you and Boris all the best?

There are some extremely dodgy dealers out there, hiding behind every trick in the book, and even when TS have got rid of them once, they try again, under a different name.

There's one just popped up again in South Yorks.


----------



## Littlelegs (8 April 2012)

I'd agree with amaranta & flame. Whilst its possible to miss mild suspensory damage over a few weeks, if it's severe enough to mean pts is a possible outcome its almost impossible to have missed. I think if you pursue it being an existing condition at the very least the insurance could argue continuing to work him & leaving it so long for a vet has caused more damage, & refuse to pay out for treatment. That would leave you having to pursue the previous owner & vetting vet which may not be successful. I'd also agree with mozlar in not sending him to a hunting home if he has major damage.
  Good luck & hope it turns out to be mild damage so you can keep up the great progress you've already made.


----------



## Kitty B (8 April 2012)

I'm so very sorry to hear about Boris' problems.  I've been reading your post but only got around to registering today, and just wanted to say that I know first hand how it feels to be had, though my experience was with a dog rather than a horse. Bought the dog and a week later had to have her pts as she had internal tumors and kidney failure. These situations are just heartbreaking, especially when you spend so much time with an unwell animal, bonding with it as you try everything in your power (and bank account) to save them. I have my fingers firmly crossed for you and Boris. Very best of luck with him!


----------



## Carefreegirl (8 April 2012)

Bugger- I read from page one to page nine getting more positive and excited for you then bam - page ten ! 
Nothing useful to add I'm afraid other than thinking of you and of course Boris and how awful and unfair for some bitch to put you in this situation.


----------



## Littlelegs (8 April 2012)

Op- please don't take my post to mean I think you've been hammering him round & either caused or worsened his lameness, I just wanted to point out how the insurance might view it, didn't want you ending up with more problems.


----------



## Bubbles (8 April 2012)

MrsB, I'm guessing you think the horse was given fluphenazine. Quite possible


----------



## Flame_ (8 April 2012)

Yeah, same here. Mrs B you are obviously in a difficult position which isn't your fault. Just be aware that your horse's insurance will be invalid if you set out to prove that his condition was pre-existing.


----------



## Goldenstar (8 April 2012)

Flame_ said:



			Yeah, same here. Mrs B you are obviously in a difficult position which isn't your fault. Just be aware that your horse's insurance will be invalid if you set out to prove that his condition was pre-existing.
		
Click to expand...

I fear this too.
However this is one lucky horse to land with Mrs B who seems really committed to do whats best for a horse who is probally turning out to be an  expensive mistake , All power to her and I hope she can get life made very difficult if not impossible for the cheating B's who sold him but for Boris I think god he's been lucky.


----------



## Stace (8 April 2012)

It's reserpine and used as a long acting tranquilizer


----------



## murphysmummy (8 April 2012)

I've been reading your story and crossing my fingers that everything was going to come right for you and


----------



## murphysmummy (8 April 2012)

Stupid phone!! 
Sorry, I meant to say I was hoping everything comes right for you and Boris! It sounds as though he's really landed on his feet with you and his attitude to life is already changing for thebetter. Perhaps with continued love and understanding he will turn into the horse you've always wanted! I strongly believe that some horses find their owners and I really hope things work themselves out
Xxx


----------



## wallykissmas (8 April 2012)

Oh what an awful story, you might already know this Mrs B but might be worth googling all details for the women to find any more info to help back up a claim. It's amazing what you can find from a mobile or home number in google.


----------



## MrsB (8 April 2012)

wallykissmas said:



			Oh what an awful story, you might already know this Mrs B but might be worth googling all details for the women to find any more info to help back up a claim. It's amazing what you can find from a mobile or home number in google.
		
Click to expand...

Yep, done that  that's what's made her into a dealer and not a private seller!


----------



## FabioandFreddy (8 April 2012)

Really awful, hope that there's some sort of good outcome from it all. Sellers lying about horses is one of my bugbears and really winds me up. No good for horse or rider.

If you've paid for a vetting and its been falsified you should have come back whether its a 2 or 5 stage. Hopefully you will.

Will just say though, i got Fabio as a 4 year old and i hadn't owned a horse for a good few years so in principal it could have been a recipe for disaster. But he really is a gent, not all young horses are unsuitable for novices so i don't think its your friends fault if thats how he'd been described, particularly if he had been drugged to make him more docile. I'd have been wary of him being underweight though as they can all change temperament when being fed properly.

Hope there's a happy end to the story for you and Boris MrsB


----------



## MrsB (8 April 2012)

I brought up the issue of Boris' weight with the vet once he'd vetted him... he said he tried to mention this to the seller, but as she was a client of his, didn't want to upset her... yet on the vetting form he'd put that she wasn't a client... so he lied!!!


----------



## Moggy in Manolos (8 April 2012)

Oh MrsB, what a horrible nightmare for you. I hope you get these people, it beggars belief that people think that drugging dangerous/unsound horses and selling them on is acceptable, lets hope they get their comeuppance.  
I hope Boris is not as badly damaged as thought and that it all works out ok for you and him whatever that encompasses


----------



## Ibblebibble (8 April 2012)

I hope you succeed in bringing this woman and vet to justice MrsB, you will be doing everyone a great service if you do, and it will also mean that Boris' suffering won't be in vain


----------



## Bionic Boy (8 April 2012)

I haven't posted on your thread before as I can't offer any different advise to what has been given.  It sounds like you and Boris have been on one hell of a journey together already and just wanted to say long may it continue.

He is one lucky boy to have of met you and you are remarkable to be doing everything you are doing for him.

Good luck to both of you - together or apart.


----------



## Parker79 (8 April 2012)

Sooo sorry to hear what you are going through. When will you find out about his hind legs?

Friend of mines pony had a very nasty suspensory injury, with time off, good shoeing and a great mummy he came sound, she rode him til he was 31.

Really really hope this all works out, at least he is with you now and away from those people.


----------



## Hollycatt (8 April 2012)

What a horrible story. I was so hoping for a happy ending 

These people (dealer and vet) are obviously as crooked as they come. They must have known the horse would come up lame/difficult,  so even if you win a court case against them don't bet on getting any money back from them. If someone has no assets then it really doesn't matter if you win a case - the crooks know how to play the system and retain any cash they have.  With that in mind, as everyone has advised I think you have to be very careful with the insurance, as if the insurance stop paying for his treatment (and these ops, investigations could run into £5000 plus territory I would suspect) - then you have to be aware you may get nothing back from the seller. Sorry to be doom and gloom but you sound so genuine I would hate for you to be putting good money after bad.


----------



## ladyt25 (8 April 2012)

Oh dear, definitely not want you want to hear. However, please don't give up too soon, suspensory ligament damage can be rectified depending on the severity and if the horse can be a good enough treatment. It does sound suspiciously like the dealer well knew this and covered it up and the vet was in cahoots with her. Unfortunately this does happen - when i insured horses there was a case a vet signed off a horse a deceased when in fact he owner and vet had already claimed for the horse death through a  previous insureance company and using the same vet! They were in it together!!


----------



## kinnygirl1 (8 April 2012)

MrsB said:



			I brought up the issue of Boris' weight with the vet once he'd vetted him... he said he tried to mention this to the seller, but as she was a client of his, didn't want to upset her... yet on the vetting form he'd put that she wasn't a client... so he lied!!!
		
Click to expand...

Might be wrong but think there is some rule that a vet can't vet on your behalf against a client so that might be something else you can follow up! So sorry this has happened to you. It is a minefield buying horses isn't it? Really impressed by how you are handling this and doing the best for you and Boris. Good luck.


----------



## Spot_the_Risk (8 April 2012)

I've read the whole thread, and really feel for you, and poor Boris.  I hope that you don't lose out financially, and it sounds as if youll make the best decisions for the horse, come what may.  Please do keep coming back to this thread, to let us know how things progress, I do hope it all comes right, somehow, in the end.


----------



## Tamba (8 April 2012)

CBFan said:



			As a fellow owner of a very large young horse I can reassure you that they ARE unballanced and thus they do buck. So, while there could be an underlying problem the bucking could simply be this - I know with my youngster, the fitter he has become, the less bucking he does!

I would echo the others - cut his feed RIGHT down. My boy has add-lib hay but only half a scoop of high fibre cubes and a dolop of speedibeet to have his supplements in. I'd feed a general purpose powder supplement rather than a balancer as balancers can heat them up if they are sensitive types. I've never known a horse to heat up on a powder supp. If you want to help the calories, add some sunflower oil.

Some 'chaffs'  contain a LOT of sugar - I'd make sure he is on a mollasses free variety with minimal Alfa alfa content.

Is he getting turnout? if so, how much? young horses really need at least 8 hours a day IMO to expect them to stay sane!

While he isn't as advertised you haven't described anything particularly alarming... i wouldn't hack a youngster and not expect the odd blip and I certainly wouldn't get on an unknown youngster and expect to do with it what you would a more experienced horse i.e canters out hacking, large groups etc... slowly slowly catchy monkey!... he is just a young, insecure horse in unfamiliar surroundings and I would have expected any lameness to show up sooner had bute been used to mask it...
		
Click to expand...

^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I agree with this
Need atleast 8 hours turnout
Cut out hard feed, replace with forage
My horse whos 17.3 arrived in August last year . i tried him and he was lovely, ldeal I thought. I got him home and he was a spooky nervous wreck, I came off him twice, and other times, hung on for all its worth.
Hes still a bit spooky now, but he has improved about 80 per cent since August, which isnt even a year. If you can try and persevere, and give him time, to get his confidence, you will likely find he will turn in to a gem. Walking them out in hand is a great way for them to see their surroundings whilst not having the stress of a rider.. works for me ! good luck .


----------



## Beausmate (8 April 2012)

Tamba said:



			^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I agree with this
Need atleast 8 hours turnout
Cut out hard feed, replace with forage
My horse whos 17.3 arrived in August last year . i tried him and he was lovely, ldeal I thought. I got him home and he was a spooky nervous wreck, I came off him twice, and other times, hung on for all its worth.
Hes still a bit spooky now, but he has improved about 80 per cent since August, which isnt even a year. If you can try and persevere, and give him time, to get his confidence, you will likely find he will turn in to a gem. Walking them out in hand is a great way for them to see their surroundings whilst not having the stress of a rider.. works for me ! good luck .
		
Click to expand...

Just wondering, have you read through the whole thread?


----------



## Tamba (9 April 2012)

Beausmate said:



			Just wondering, have you read through the whole thread?
		
Click to expand...

no, had no idea, till now, that it took such a horrible twist !
So sorry for OP, but I have my fingers crossed, that it might still be a retrievable situation and that Boris can be treated. I wish the OP would post if there is any more news on his injury.fingers crossed for them both.


----------



## ex racer rider (9 April 2012)

Poor you, poor boris. I have everything crossed in hopes of justice being done, those people deserve to be shot for the sadness and danger they have caused you and for the pain and trauma they have inflicted on boris and other horses.
good luck to you and god bless you boris, get well x


----------



## xxMozlarxx (9 April 2012)

MrsB said:



			I am taking Boris' future extremely seriously.  I am not going to send him somewhere that I don't know.  I am well aware of the consquences of the damage he has and I am also taking advice from my vet and YO.

I will do what is best for my horse and whilst I appreciate your input xxMozalarxx, I am exploring every option for him and if, *IF* a hunting home is a viable option for him (horses can still hunt and jump with sus. damage if it is managed well after the operation) and I know exactly where he is going and he can receive a fulfilling and healthly life, then that is where he will go.
		
Click to expand...

Hi, obviously it is your call, as the owner of a horse with suspensory damage who has recovered to his previous level without an operation I wouldn't hunt him as I just know that it would put too much strain on that old injury and he would break down. The operation just stops the feeling from the old injury. Good luck in whatever happens


----------



## Ladydragon (9 April 2012)

I've got my fingers crossed for Boris when he has further investigations this week...

Nothing to say that hasn't already been said but I wanted to comment and subscribe to the thread so I don't miss any updates...  You're in a horrible position MrsB...


----------



## MrsB (14 April 2012)

Hi Everyone,

No real news as of yet - Boris is going to the vet on Tuesday to have his hinds looked at.

H&H have removed my other thread "My boy could be be someone elses boy etc" as they deemed it defamatory.  Strange, seeing that it was a very informative thread, warning others of the dangers of buying a horse, the issues of passports, dodgy dealers and even dodgier vets...

Oh well...


----------



## Frumpoon (14 April 2012)

Hey!!!!!!
I'm really glad you are hanging on in there..I am so sorry your dream has turned out to be a different kind of dream...but if you are bonding and Boris ends up as healthy ish maybe some kind of partnership could be formed???

He is so lucky to have found you...my big lad was a right old challenge so you have my every sympathy and you sound like such a wonderful generous lady...alll I can add is that somewhere inside that big horse is a damaged and betrayed baby and he has a heart that beats, there is love and loyalty there....up for grabs....??? I am so sorry he is so poorly, there are always little options to make things easier or nice for him...if you want to...xxxxx


----------



## MrsB (14 April 2012)

Thanks Frumpoon for your heart-felt and warming message.  Yes, I will do all I can for my 'big ginger git' as I affectionately call him, he certainly has had a crappy life, which I hope to improve on.  He's certainly having the life of riley at the moment, plenty of food, no work (as he's poorly), turned out with his buddies and looking better every day


----------



## indie999 (14 April 2012)

Dont worry about the thread being pulled telling the truth about horse dealings etc seems to hit a nerve for some strange reason as if its completely acceptable for folks to get duped ie part and parcel of the horse world. Well it isnt is it! This is all experience good the bad and the ugly. You have done nothing wrong except buy a horse with your money, and now find out all was not as it seems.

I have been following your thread with interest, sadness for you and your horse with an uncertain future despite all your efforts to get to the bottom of this mess. 

But Tuesday will be a decider for you both and whatever happens you will be able to take the next step in what will be the right direction from now on. Fingers crossed for you both and hope it gets sorted out soon.


----------



## rowan666 (14 April 2012)

luckyoldme said:



			i got had but i was an idiot and deserved it.
I went to the worst dealer in the country on my own in a brand new car and bought a horse i felt sorry for.
He came complete with a false passport and somewhere between the dealers yard and my house he underwent a complete personality change.
It was hell on earth for the first six months it was a dangerous nightmare.
I wasn t exsperienced enough to handle him but i grew in confidence as time went by. Eventually we bonded and i have had him 3 years nowI ride in the summer and chill out in the winter.. he is seriously perfect for me!
I think some horses go through a tremendous trauma when changing hands and take ages to settle down and get their confidence... 
I know it feels like crap at the moment..been there but please don t rule out the possibility of a happy ending!
		
Click to expand...

LOVE THIS! ive been in similar situation also and it does make the bond between you stronger in the long run!! also ive been on the other side and sold a horse who had genuinley NEVER bucked with me but very next day after he was sold i recieved an email from new owners friend telling me he had thrown a fit and put her in hospital!! and seems she finds him very unpredicatable!?! wish ide never sold him now! feel very bad ide never sell another horse ever again now! a horse is for life!  

diet is a major factor but horses are like kids and it can be majorly traumatic for them to be passed around from pillar to post so they will enevitably push boundaries. good luck! please dont rush to sell him on as you may live to regret it later on worrying where he will end up and if hes ok!


----------



## MrsB (17 April 2012)

Oh don't worry, I wouldn't sell him on unless I knew exactly where he was going. 

Boris is going to Newmarket on Sunday for a full bone/body scan to see exactly what his situation is, I should have some news on Mon/Tue and will post then.

Thanks for your continued support xxx


----------



## asommerville (17 April 2012)

i hope you gey some good news you both deserve it xx


----------



## MrsMozart (17 April 2012)

Oh hun. It continues to be a pile of poops. Fingers crossed this shows what you're dealing with and can come up with a plan of action.

If you ever fancy a ride and you're my neck of the woods, come and say hello to the Hairy Gang and have a ride on the Dizz


----------



## Waffles (17 April 2012)

Have only skimmed over your post (too much wine...) but I reckon it takes about a year to get to grips with a new horse at least a year...


----------



## MrsMozart (17 April 2012)

Waffles said:



			Have only skimmed over your post (too much wine...) but I reckon it takes about a year to get to grips with a new horse at least a year...
		
Click to expand...


You probably have to read the whole thread m'duck, it sadly goes deeper than simply a new horse in a new place.


----------



## Ladydragon (17 April 2012)

MrsB said:



			Oh don't worry, I wouldn't sell him on unless I knew exactly where he was going. 

Boris is going to Newmarket on Sunday for a full bone/body scan to see exactly what his situation is, I should have some news on Mon/Tue and will post then.

Thanks for your continued support xxx
		
Click to expand...

I hope you get some positive news...


----------



## lottie940 (17 April 2012)

I sincerely hope it all goes well for you and Boris.xx


----------



## Archie73 (17 April 2012)

Horrendous! Best of luck to both of you. I think Boris is lucky you have been so unlucky.


----------



## MrsB (18 April 2012)

Waffles said:



			Have only skimmed over your post (too much wine...) but I reckon it takes about a year to get to grips with a new horse at least a year...
		
Click to expand...

And what MrsMozart said, this is a complete can of worms.

How I wish it was as simple as giving him time to settle in, but it's not....


----------



## MrsB (18 April 2012)

MrsMozart said:



			If you ever fancy a ride and you're my neck of the woods, come and say hello to the Hairy Gang and have a ride on the Dizz 

Click to expand...

Awww, thank you so much!  Where abouts are you out of interest?


----------



## MrsMozart (18 April 2012)

Roughly speaking, slung somewhere between Derby and Nottingham, give or take a bit


----------



## 1Lucie (18 April 2012)

Ahhh u poor thing, this was my worst fear when buying my first horse. The people i brought mine from must of thought i was crazy, i literally quizzed them and did EVERYTHING whe i tried him!

I too purchased my first horse 7months ago. He was very quiet at the trial. He was a little spooky when i first got him, but chilled within 2 weeks of riding with an experienced bombproof mare he was back to himself. (i had loaned horses for around 8years or so before buying too)


However, after 4 weeks, i would expect a quiet first horse to have settled. Maybe not totally but definatly not displaying the behaviour your expriencing. It sounds to me like its getting worse.

I would say the following might be a good start:

-Get an experienced rider to school/hack and see what happens? You could even go with them on foot to see for yourself. 

-Get bloods tested if you have them from vetting. From top of my head i think it costs about £40....inexpensive really.

-I would write to the person you brought the horse from in black and white explaining the problems and that you wish to return the horse. Take a copy of it and send by recorded delievery. Proof if you need to take this further in the future.

-Is there anything anywhere that says you can return the horse. On a website? If so save/print/keep safe.

Hope this helps


----------



## Waffles (18 April 2012)

My horse took around 4 months to seem settled.  He had a total change of lifestyle though


----------



## Mince Pie (18 April 2012)

You really need to read the thread, the horse had done both front suspensories and possibly the backs as well before the OP bought it. It's not just a case of "letting the horse settle in".


----------



## Waffles (18 April 2012)

Broke_But_Happy said:



			You really need to read the thread, the horse had done both front suspensories and possibly the backs as well before the OP bought it. It's not just a case of "letting the horse settle in".
		
Click to expand...

Ok sorry - I read the first few posts.  There were so many!  Well, it is truly awful then.


----------



## ChristmasPixie (18 April 2012)

Hello! Any news from the vet on the hinds yet? Such a sad story  

I was duped by a dealer years ago when I bought what should have been the most fantastic sports horse for a huge amount of money. After 7 years of battling with the horse I totally destoyed my confidence riding. He was such a sweet boy to handle though, I really loved him. Luckily I did find a suitable loan home for him, but never got over the fact I failed him as he was so talented. After a break from riding I was very lucky to be offered the ride on some wonderful horses owned by friends, and have now got my dream horse who is my best friend and I can do anything with... and sickeningly he was a freebie!!

Fingers crossed for some good news on your boy


----------



## sjp1 (18 April 2012)

Have just read all 20 pages (oops - at work too!).

Am just so so sorry for you and Boris.  I agree with everyone who says that Boris is very lucky to have you, after having had such an awful life.  You so deserve for things to go your way .  Best of luck with it all.


----------



## annunziata (18 April 2012)

OMG I have just read it all!!  Poor you and poor Boris!!!!  Any news on him yet.  I have everything crossed xx


----------



## Pedantic (18 April 2012)

What a nightmare , just read through it all.


----------



## DougalJ (18 April 2012)

Just read all 20 pages too. Such a nightmare and make me so cross that there are such unscrupulous sellers out there and makes hard work selling a horse when you are "genuinely genuine". I wish you all the luck in the world that a happy solution can be found and there has been some great support and suggestions here to help which is nice.


----------



## Emma86 (18 April 2012)

I have been read the whole thread and its sickening what you have both been through. I do hope its good news (do you have any yet?) 
MrsB you poor thing, what an awful experience for your first time buying, unfortunately I am sure there are many others out there who have had similar scenarios (lots in this thread!) Fingers crossed for Beautiful Boris.


----------



## BlairandAzria (18 April 2012)

I too have read the whole thread..(bye bye lunch-hour) and just wanted to wish you and boris the best of luck today, my fingers are firmly crossed for a positive outcome for you both. 

I really hope your prosecutions of both dealer and vet are successful, but most of all I truly hope you get the best possible news today for boris. You sound like you have been the best possible owner he could have wished for and he is a lucky boy to have found you, fingers crossed you get a lot more years together yet xx


----------



## Tammytoo (18 April 2012)

I too have been following this thread and I am so angry for you and yet so happy that Boris has found such a caring owner, whatever the outcome may be.

Please keep the "Boris Fan Club" updated.


----------



## missieh (19 April 2012)

Any news on Boris?


----------



## MrsB (22 April 2012)

Hi all, Boris has gone off to Newmarket this evening for a full bone/body scan to try and pinpoint exactly what's causing his lameness.

I had an extremely pathetic and patronising letter back from the vetting vet, he'll be getting another letter from me and of course I'll be copying in the RCVS and trading standards. That's all I'll say on that as don't want this thread to get pulled like my other one!

I won't know until around Tue/Wed as to what his condition is and I'll update ASAP!  

Thanks for all your responses


----------



## Black_Horse_White (22 April 2012)

Really hope whatever is the problem is easily sorted for both your sakes, good luck x


----------



## Parker79 (22 April 2012)

Oh - I really hope they can get to the bottom of it and can help you both - Its the best place for him to go...they found out what was up with my mare after about 10 months of everyone else trying to work it out!

Good luck.


----------



## MrsB (23 April 2012)

Thanks again guys - I will keep you informed as soon as any info comes to light.  If there's one thing positive, he loads on the lorry very well and travels like a dream!!! 

He's a well travelled boy!


----------



## milesjess (23 April 2012)

Just read through this thread - just wanted to echo the support and say how brave you are. 

Boris seems to have been through hell and back but finally sounds like he has found a lovely, caring home. 

It amazes me still how these animals continue to trust us despite their history.

I'm sure he is very grateful to you for saving his life and giving him a chance 

... As for the scum who did this to you both. Time, patience and evidence will see the fate that they deserve! 

Good luck to you both and keep us posted on how your lovely man is x


----------



## YasandCrystal (23 April 2012)

Oh MrsB just read the whole thread - dreadful tale. I can empathise as I have been through very similar buying supposedly 'privately' - my horse was definately doped for his 5 stage vetting and he ended up bucking over his ears (4 times) with my daughter on board and she had almost whip lash like injuries. She stayed on. That was the last time (except for diagnosis at AHT Newmarket) he was ridden. i now have LOU on my boy. I didn't sue - I went through the insurance which I luckily had. It has meant my 17hh WB has a home for life now whether he can be ridden remains to be seen - he has been turned away for the winter.

Well done for sticking with your gut feeling. Horses communicate pain in different ways. Mine was out and out aggressive and dangerous on the ground and ridden in the end, but the ridden was his last resort. He would bite strike and kick at anyone everytime you went near him. I was repeatedly told it was me being fluffy with him, but of course it wasn't. You can make a horse stressed and lack confidence by being fearful around it, but not aggressive. My boy now is sweet and loving and chilled and I can trust him at last. Good luck.


----------



## HazyXmas (23 April 2012)

Just wanted to add my best wishes for some good news for you & Boris 

It is such a minefield buying a horse, puts me off even thinking about getting another one :-(

Hopefully Newmarket can offer some good advice. Good luck.


----------



## MrsB (23 April 2012)

Hi All,

I've heard back from Newmarket, nothing has shown up in the bone scan so all I can assume is that is tendon/ligament.  They're going to speak to my vet in the morning to discuss what can be done for him.  He's definately got front suspensory damage in both legs, so we'll have to see what can be done with his hinds.

I've had someone send me some pics of Boris in all his glory - brings a tear to my eye looking at these and knowing the boy that I have now, I just hope I can get him back to this!


----------



## MrsB (23 April 2012)

This was Boris when I got him on 19 February...







A far cry from the previous pictures...


----------



## MrsMozart (23 April 2012)

Flipping heck lass! On both counts.

He was gorgeous, and he will be again for sure.


----------



## Goldenstar (23 April 2012)

Oh those photos are so sad he is so lucky MrsB  ,Epona  was looking out for him when she sent him in your direction.


----------



## MrsB (23 April 2012)

Goldenstar said:



			Epona  was looking out for him when she sent him in your direction.
		
Click to expand...

Epona? One of yours?


----------



## Littlelegs (23 April 2012)

Epona's a horse goddess, think from the ancient celts.


----------



## Goldenstar (23 April 2012)

MrsB said:



			Epona? One of yours? 

Click to expand...

No she's the Celtic goddess of horses and where we get our word pony from.


----------



## MrsB (23 April 2012)

oh the shame of it! 

Sorry, you must all think I'm a right eejit, I've never heard of Epona before... but I certainly know now!  Sounds like a good quiz question


----------



## Goldenstar (23 April 2012)

Should we start a cult and all go around chanting Epona goddess of horses protect them or some such thing and letting down curses on all dishonest dealers everywhere.


----------



## MrsB (23 April 2012)

Sounds like a plan Goldenstar... could start a group - Epona Rescue!


----------



## Goldenstar (23 April 2012)

MrsB said:



			Sounds like a plan Goldenstar... could start a group - Epona Rescue!
		
Click to expand...

That will get the wind up those nasty dealers now where did I put that cauldron.


----------



## Littlelegs (23 April 2012)

Do you reckon I could get away with it being my main religion & get paid time from work to go horse worshipping, i.e. ride? 
Don't feel bad about not knowing who epona is, I reckon most people around my age (31) first heard of it reading jinny pony stories where it was mentioned!


----------



## Holly Hocks (23 April 2012)

MrsB - I've just read through most of the thread (phew!).  I've nothing more to add, other than I also bought a horse with suspensory ligament injury,so you have my utmost sympathy.


----------



## Goldenstar (23 April 2012)

And we could claim that wearing smelly breeches and body warmers was part of
our religious tradition and therefore we can do it all the time and no cooking of meals at the weekend( gets in way of competions) this has lots of possibilities .


----------



## Littlelegs (23 April 2012)

Don't forget time off for religious festivals such as badminton, hoys, Olympia, week day hunting etc.


----------



## Goldenstar (23 April 2012)

littlelegs said:



			Don't forget time off for religious festivals such as badminton, hoys, Olympia, week day hunting etc.
		
Click to expand...

Yes definatly the cult would headed by the grand mare also known as the Alpha one.


----------



## MrsB (23 April 2012)

Ladies, there's a new thread for Epona Stars!  Yay!


----------



## MrsB (24 April 2012)

Update on Borisey-Boy...

I've now heard back from Rossdale's at Newmarket, some top bloke there called Andy (apparently one of the best in the country according to my vet!) phoned me with the details.

He confirmed that Boris does have front suspensory damage and that his left hind lameness is more than likely due to him not having back shoes on for a considerable length of time and also being poorly shod in the first place.  He's going to perform corrective farrier work on his hinds and also do shockwave therapy on his fronts, coupled with cortisone injections etc.  Boris will need 2 weeks box rest, then light walking in hand work and then slowly bringing back into work.

However... this damage has been present for some length of time he said, before I purchased him; which goes to prove that I was sold a horse that was lame and that the vetting vet passed him... this throws all sorts of questions up about how Boris passed the vetting 

That's all I'm going to say on ^^ here for fear of it being regarded as slanderous etc and get pulled.  I'll be posting more on that on my Facebook page, Epona Stars, so click the link to see more, but have to go and see my folks for tea, so will probably update that later.

With this fantastic news, I can now see light at the end of the tunnel for my boy


----------



## milesjess (24 April 2012)

That's positive news  

Good to hear that it has also given you more evidence against those scumbags. 

Will add your group now


----------



## Firewell (24 April 2012)

Well done on sticking with this horse and finding out the real story. I have a sneaky suspicion that I know exactly who you brought him off and who vetted him as I was duped by the same set of people. It's very easy to be taken in by these parasites. They'll get what is coming to them eventually.


----------



## Goldenstar (24 April 2012)

At least you have some answers now and can begin to make a plan .


----------



## Parker79 (24 April 2012)

That is positive, like someone else said...you have a plan now and the news could have been very different.

I really look forward to hearing on him...so glad he found you but also sorry you have had to go through hell.

good luck

ps...sure the vets will mention it...but if his back feet were rubbish it will be worth getting some treatment on his back later down the line, he may thank you for it...Sorry to mention yet more treament! just want to see you both having happier times.


----------



## MrsMozart (24 April 2012)

Brilliant! Still all crossed that all comes right.


----------



## Ibblebibble (24 April 2012)

whilst he still has a way to go at least he is not a write off so that is positive news. with this new evidence i hope you manage to get some justice for Boris through the relevant channels regarding the vet who vetted him and the people who sold him


----------



## attheponies (24 April 2012)

So pleased you have had some positive news and know more where you are with Boris. My chap had shockwave therapy and it cerainly seemed to help him. Keeping fingers and toes crossed for a really good outcome for you and Boris.


----------



## Ladydragon (24 April 2012)

That's fair made my evening MrsB...  Thanks for the update... 

So pleased to hear there's some positive news for you both and you can work out a way forward - and that you have some more ammunition against the 'blankety blanks' who put you in this position...


----------



## MrsB (24 April 2012)

Ladydragon said:



			That's fair made my evening MrsB...  Thanks for the update... 

Click to expand...

Yay! Me too


----------



## indie999 (24 April 2012)

Ahh as has been said some hope and what a long experience you are having with all of this. I hope you get to the bottom of the vet and the seller too and that Boris might stop anyone else having to go through this, even if its just locally. As you say just be careful what is posted until it is proven(I do believe you totally as its a mine field). Probably explains why Boris has been a handful at times. Cant believe how some people treat their animals at end of day ££££££££££! End of!


----------



## Bills (24 April 2012)

Read through every post, and what an awful situation. I'm so glad there is light at the end of the tunnel for you both 
What are your plans for him now? Get him right and keep him, or get him right and sell?


----------



## imr (25 April 2012)

I have jsut read the lot too.

I am so glad you have a diagnosis and a plan, which will hopefully see him come sound. He looks like he could be a super chap. I feel hugely sorry for you as I think it is appalling that people have behaved in this way and taken advantage of your relative inexperience. Whilst I am sure if you buy again you might do it a bit differently, I really hope you have a happy outturn with this one and that everything comes right. I hope you continue to get lots of help and decent advice so that you are able to bring him on assuming a positive outcome to the vet treatment.


----------



## MrsB (25 April 2012)

Hi Everyone, 

Thanks for all your good will messages - Boris comes home tomorrow and I can't wait to groom my big ginger boy!

I have since spoken to BHS legal team who have been FAB!  It really is worth paying the extra for the gold membership 

Will keep you all updated as to our progress and thanks again 

PS - Well done to anyone who has read this from start to finish - it's epic!!!


----------



## Luci07 (25 April 2012)

MrsB said:



			Hi Everyone, 

Thanks for all your good will messages - Boris comes home tomorrow and I can't wait to groom my big ginger boy!

I have since spoken to BHS legal team who have been FAB!  It really is worth paying the extra for the gold membership 

Will keep you all updated as to our progress and thanks again 

PS - Well done to anyone who has read this from start to finish - it's epic!!!
		
Click to expand...

But not as epic as your journey,,,,glad you can see some light...


----------



## finnywinny (26 April 2012)

Firewell said:



			Well done on sticking with this horse and finding out the real story. I have a sneaky suspicion that I know exactly who you brought him off and who vetted him as I was duped by the same set of people. It's very easy to be taken in by these parasites. They'll get what is coming to them eventually.
		
Click to expand...

Mrs B i have been following yours and Boris' story from the beginining, including your pulled thread. Like Firewall above, I'd had a feeling I knew who these people were who have done this to you and the photos you posted of Boris from an earlier life have confirmed my suspicions. As has been said, these people always present their horses like that.

Needless to say i was also one of their victims, bought my first horse from them too - a sad and thin but sweet natured boy who put me in A&E on day 4.The seller was female, the one you mentioned in your pulled thread, and when i first tried to return him, she told me to contact the male half of the equation as she said he always liked the horse and might buy him off me. When i spoke to the man he offered me a pittance because the horse "was worthless now because you have ruined his reputation". This was a few years ago, i can barely believe they are still at it and getting away with it. Same vet too, soon after he was investiaged by the RCVS. Cannot believe how green i was but pray god we only do this once - then grow up very fast. do PM me if you need any further details. 

I've hoped for years that karma might sort them out, but it seems to be a very slow train coming with so many more victims along the way.

All the best luck in the world with your gorgeous ginger and everything crossed this has a happy ending for you. I couldn't keep my boy as I was unable to ride or care for him with my arm shattered in 4 places....


----------



## MrsB (26 April 2012)

finnywinny said:



			All the best luck in the world with your gorgeous ginger and everything crossed this has a happy ending for you. I couldn't keep my boy as I was unable to ride or care for him with my arm shattered in 4 places....
		
Click to expand...

Sickening and so sad - I hope your arm is much better now... they MUST be stopped, how long will it be before someone is killed as a result of their actions?!?  I was extremely lucky to get bucked off in the school and have a soft landing.  Had that of been out on the road - I'd of been in hospital or even dead with a broken neck.

Doesn't bear thinking about.

Anyhoo, the ginger git (as I affectionately call him  ) is home today, woop woop!!


----------



## annunziata (26 April 2012)

MrsB I think you have done a stirling job and i hope you bring these people down!!  Just appauling to think what has happened to you and Finnywinny just terrible.  I am Boris is coming home today and I hope you get justice!!


----------



## VLHIEASTON (26 April 2012)

I'm so glad you and Boris 'found' each other, would hate to think otherwise and what may have become of him..well done to you for sorting this terrible situation..

Good Luck to you both xxx


----------



## Slightlyconfused (27 April 2012)

Yay, go you. You should be proud that you stuck by Boris and seeing the light now.

X


----------



## x-di-x (28 April 2012)

Just caught up again with the thread glad Boris's damage is contained to the fronts only and that there is light at the end of the tunnel in that respect.  It's bloody awful tho that he's had it from pre purchase  that poor boy   and that the VET PASSED HIM - I hoped these sort of practises had died long ago (i'm not that niave but did hope) - complete rage 

I hope justice can be done for you and boris and anyone else who has been duped. 

I am glad that you have shared your experiences on here.


----------



## VLHIEASTON (28 April 2012)

Wow...the power of the t'internet!
Look how many people have read this thread and a big well done to all who have contributed / commented!

The support when unknown 'cyber friends' get 'together' is amazing.


----------



## alwaysbroke (28 April 2012)

Just caught up with this . when my little boy was very ill someone told me special children are sent to special parents, to me Boris sounds like a special horse who has found a very special owner in Mrs B So pleased your boy is home Mrs B, I wish you all the luck in the world with him and karma to the toads who put you both and so many others in this position.


----------



## Pebbles (28 April 2012)

alwaysbroke said:



			Just caught up with this . when my little boy was very ill someone told me special children are sent to special parents, to me Boris sounds like a special horse who has found a very special owner in Mrs B So pleased your boy is home Mrs B, I wish you all the luck in the world with him and karma to the toads who put you both and so many others in this position.
		
Click to expand...

Beautifully put, totally agree x


----------



## MrsB (29 April 2012)

Thanks Guys!

I'm off to see my boy shortly - can't wait to groom him and see how he's doing!


----------



## Parker79 (29 April 2012)

alwaysbroke said:



			Just caught up with this . when my little boy was very ill someone told me special children are sent to special parents, to me Boris sounds like a special horse who has found a very special owner in Mrs B So pleased your boy is home Mrs B, I wish you all the luck in the world with him and karma to the toads who put you both and so many others in this position.
		
Click to expand...

omg - what a beautiful quote, I will always remember this! I also totally agree


----------



## MagicMelon (29 April 2012)

Did you actually ride him before you bought him?  I can't tell from your post.  Probably would have been a better idea to have had a 5 stage vetting than just a basic 2 stage...


----------



## Ladydragon (29 April 2012)

MagicMelon said:



			Did you actually ride him before you bought him?  I can't tell from your post.  Probably would have been a better idea to have had a 5 stage vetting than just a basic 2 stage...
		
Click to expand...

In MrsB's situation, the type of vetting was arguably of far less relevance than the vet who did it...


----------



## MrsB (29 April 2012)

MagicMelon said:



			Did you actually ride him before you bought him?  I can't tell from your post.  Probably would have been a better idea to have had a 5 stage vetting than just a basic 2 stage...
		
Click to expand...

Thanks for you post - it would help if you read the whole thing (boring I know) and then you probably would have said something completely different - and as Ladydragon said, it's more to do with the vet than the stage of it.... and yes I did ride him before I bought him and he was very very placid.

Boris was fine, walking in hand for 10 mins for 2 weeks - he's going to be doing his nut after that!  We've got a programme for him from Rossdale's but he will need to be sedated before he goes for his paddock turnout, he will be uncontrollable otherwise... of this we are very sure given how he was when he was turned out normally!!!


----------



## glenruby (30 April 2012)

What a terrible and stressful situation to be in. Only one thing I has sprung to mind after reading this thread. That is that it appears that the horse wasn't actually lame at the time if purchase. It is entirely feasible that boris wasn't le under the straightforward testing of a 2 stage vetting. The purpose if a 5 stage vetting is to show up lameness and performance issues that are more subtle and will become apparent after a period of strenuous exercise. I don't know the vet in question but sometimes suspensory issues are not visible on vettings - especially not in basic vettings. That does not mean it is the vet at fault. If the horse was actually lame during vetting that is a different matter. We're you present(as one us advised)? 
As I said I don't know who the vet and dealer are so not commenting on their scruples.


----------



## sjp1 (30 April 2012)

Am so pleased there is a little bit of light at the end of the tunnel for you and Boris.  You have done so well with him, and also well done for trying to get to the bottom of it all, not only with Boris, but also with the dealer and the vet - many, many people would have got shot of Boris and not bothered to try to see justice done.

Fingers crossed it sorts on both counts.


----------



## MrsMozart (30 April 2012)

MrsB said:



			Thanks Guys!

I'm off to see my boy shortly - can't wait to groom him and see how he's doing!
		
Click to expand...


How did it go sweetie?


----------



## MrsB (1 May 2012)

glenruby said:



			What a terrible and stressful situation to be in. Only one thing I has sprung to mind after reading this thread. That is that it appears that the horse wasn't actually lame at the time if purchase. It is entirely feasible that boris wasn't le under the straightforward testing of a 2 stage vetting. The purpose if a 5 stage vetting is to show up lameness and performance issues that are more subtle and will become apparent after a period of strenuous exercise. I don't know the vet in question but sometimes suspensory issues are not visible on vettings - especially not in basic vettings. That does not mean it is the vet at fault. If the horse was actually lame during vetting that is a different matter. We're you present(as one us advised)? 
As I said I don't know who the vet and dealer are so not commenting on their scruples.
		
Click to expand...

OK, all I will say on this is that at the time Boris did not appear to be lame when I tried him.  The seller recommended a vet to me and being a bit green, said ok.  I was not present at the vetting; the seller told me "he will definitely pass, don't worry".  The vet has now been arrested pending a fraud investigation.  I certainly do know the vet now and he has been previously struck off and heavily fined.  So that's all I need to say on that.

Boris is going well, although he HATES being in his box and gets a little gung-ho if he sees a gap in his door, he escaped on to the yard on Saturday, but luckily it was fully enclosed!  He's got 2 weeks of box rest with walking in hand for 10 mins, then upped to 15 mins, then small turnout, then back to Newmarket for another scan...

Phew...!


----------



## Ladydragon (1 May 2012)

MrsB said:



			OK, all I will say on this is that at the time Boris did not appear to be lame when I tried him.  The seller recommended a vet to me and being a bit green, said ok.  I was not present at the vetting; the seller told me "he will definitely pass, don't worry".  *The vet has now been arrested pending a fraud investigation. * I certainly do know the vet now and he has been previously struck off and heavily fined.  So that's all I need to say on that.

Boris is going well, although he HATES being in his box and gets a little gung-ho if he sees a gap in his door, he escaped on to the yard on Saturday, but luckily it was fully enclosed!  He's got 2 weeks of box rest with walking in hand for 10 mins, then upped to 15 mins, then small turnout, then back to Newmarket for another scan...

Phew...!
		
Click to expand...

Ooooh...  

I guess he wouldn't be Boris if he didn't object and make a bid for freedom...


----------



## ThreeTB's (1 May 2012)

Just caught up with this, glad to hear things are heading the right way, for Boris and the vet!  Looking forward to plenty of updates


----------



## soulfull (1 May 2012)

I have just read all your thread (should be doing house work lol)

your post both angers me on your behalf and scares the life out of me as I am horse hunting at the moment and after having missed almost 7 years riding with 2 horses lameness and my own repeated surgeries I am desperate to get it right this time

my current horse has had surgery for hind suspensory but is now lame on front.  vet coming on Thursday.  we suspect he has it on the front right now   after having a very long talk with my vet we have decided if it is  it would be best to PTS 
He was my horse of a lifetime but due to 4 lots of surgery on me I have not been able to fulfil him before he went lame

Please take a look at this http://www.facebook.com/groups/255267791160904/

It is a group for suspensory ligament in horses,  I think most have it on the hinds, but some on fronts,  they are VERY VERY knowledgeable and friendly

I wish you all the luck in the world !!!


----------



## Zeus (1 May 2012)

I am so sorry for you MrsB and poor Boris - sellers like the ones you bought him off sicken me.
I don't know what your course of action is going to be but if it looks like it could be heading down the legal route then pull this thread asap.


----------



## MrsB (3 May 2012)

Boris is going to the blood bank, I decided ages ago that the next place he goes to will be the last time he moves anywhere.  I wanted him to go to the Police, but he would have to have a month's trial and I didn't want him coming back if he wasn't suitable and causing him more unrest.  So I've managed to secure him a place at the blood bank in Buckinghamshire where he will live out his days in a herd with other horses, in the most natural environment a horse can have.  He will be very well looked after as they are strictly regulated and I can be assured that he will be happy there.  He'll go around the end of May.

There'll be a tear in my eye as I won't be able to visit him due to strict regulations regarding infections etc. but at least he's going to a wonderful life with loads of mates, in a field in the summer, barn in the winter, plenty of food and company - what more could I ask for such a wonderful boy?

And a special thanks to eveyone who had seen this through, it's been an epic journey, has tought me a hell of a lot and am very grateful for all the support and kind words that have been shown to me and Boris over the last few months - you're all Stars... Epona Stars


----------



## Dizzle (3 May 2012)

I've just read this, I love Boris.

I have never heard of the blood bank before but I get the gist and I REALLY admire you for not making him someone else's problem. He's very lucky to have found you.


----------



## Pebbles (3 May 2012)

A brave and wise decision MrsB, huge hugs xxx


----------



## Adeer (3 May 2012)

Just read all of this post.

I think it is brilliant what you have done for Boris. It is good news that he is going to the blood bank (funnily enough I had information about the blood bank this morning in a newsletter from my vets). I know you will be very sad to see him go but what you have done for him over the past few weeks has been remarkable.
I wish you all the best with your new horse.


----------



## Pebbles (3 May 2012)

soulfull said:



			I have just read all your thread (should be doing house work lol)

your post both angers me on your behalf and scares the life out of me as I am horse hunting at the moment and after having missed almost 7 years riding with 2 horses lameness and my own repeated surgeries I am desperate to get it right this time

my current horse has had surgery for hind suspensory but is now lame on front.  vet coming on Thursday.  we suspect he has it on the front right now   after having a very long talk with my vet we have decided if it is  it would be best to PTS 
He was my horse of a lifetime but due to 4 lots of surgery on me I have not been able to fulfil him before he went lame

Please take a look at this http://www.facebook.com/groups/255267791160904/

It is a group for suspensory ligament in horses,  I think most have it on the hinds, but some on fronts,  they are VERY VERY knowledgeable and friendly

I wish you all the luck in the world !!!
		
Click to expand...

I am so sorry to read this Soulfull, my heart goes out to you, not had the luckiest couple of years myself but nothing compared to PTS. Wish you well in your search, it is a minefield, and ((((hugs)))) for when the sad time comes, be thinking of you x


----------



## noodle_ (3 May 2012)

Adeer said:



			Just read all of this post.

I think it is brilliant what you have done for Boris. It is good news that he is going to the blood bank (funnily enough I had information about the blood bank this morning in a newsletter from my vets). I know you will be very sad to see him go but what you have done for him over the past few weeks has been remarkable.
I wish you all the best with your new horse.
		
Click to expand...

this ^


good on you mrsb not just palming your horse off as a companion for someone else to deal with.

you know exactly where hes going and he will have a nice life



good luck boris.x


----------



## misst (3 May 2012)

I have been following this thread. I am so so sorry for you and for Boris, sadly you were not the first and won't be the last to experience bad vets and dishonest sellers  I smiled when you said he was going to the blood bank. Someone else I knew did this for their horse and he did well. They care for them and you will know that when the time comes he will have a secure and kind end - which is all we can hope for for any horse. I hope you have better luck next time - you deserve it.


----------



## MrsMozart (3 May 2012)

Oh hunny. 

You and the Boris lad have not had it easy.

I know nothing about the blood bank, but I know for sure that if you feel it's right for your lad and for you then it is.


----------



## Dollysox (3 May 2012)

What a good end result after such a traumatic time for both of you.  Well done, Mrs B, for persevering and finding a solution.


----------



## AMH (3 May 2012)

As I've said before, what a lucky Boris to have found you. You've changed his life in a way that many others would not have done x


----------



## Pinkatc (3 May 2012)

Have followed this thread with interest. I'm so sorry you didn't get your boy back - I've never heard of the blood bank, what an amazing thing to do! I hope they can keep you updated on how he settles in x


----------



## seoirse (3 May 2012)

Im so sad to hear this. What you have done for Boris is amazing, but the effort you have put into trying to prevent this happening to other horses and buyers in the future is truly admirable. You are Epona  protector of equines!

Good luck to Boris in his new home and good luck to you finding a suitable horse. xx


----------



## Ladydragon (3 May 2012)

MrsB said:



			Boris is going to the blood bank, I decided ages ago that the next place he goes to will be the last time he moves anywhere.  I wanted him to go to the Police, but he would have to have a month's trial and I didn't want him coming back if he wasn't suitable and causing him more unrest.  So I've managed to secure him a place at the blood bank in Buckinghamshire where he will live out his days in a herd with other horses, in the most natural environment a horse can have.  He will be very well looked after as they are strictly regulated and I can be assured that he will be happy there.
		
Click to expand...

Whilst acknowledging this will be a difficult parting of the ways after you've invested so much energy in Boris, this is wonderful news MrsB...  As a good, lifetime home goes, this is a great option...  And he gets to help other horses too...  I hope you'll get occasional updates on how he's doing...


----------



## Amymay (3 May 2012)

Wow, that's a surprise.


----------



## Spiritedly (3 May 2012)

Well done you for making what must of been a hard decision, if only more owners would put their horses needs above everything else there would be a lot less horses like Boris being sold on to unsuspecting buyers.
For the benefit of us thickos would someone in the know like to explain what a blood bank is/does?  Thankyou


----------



## sjp1 (3 May 2012)

Am so pleased that Boris is going to have a secure life now thanks to you, and hope that you do find the right one - you really deserve to.

Well done.


----------



## fruity (3 May 2012)

My friends horse went to the blood bank,he'll be very looked after there. Bless you for all you've done for him.


----------



## millreef (12 May 2012)

I just read this thread backwards because I couldn't face going through all the pages the right way around.  It's like walking down the mountain rather than walking up it  Glad things got sorted.  I knew a couple of horses which had been used for snake antidote - but that may just have been a story, anyroadup. Glad things worked out well in the end.


----------



## Flame_ (12 May 2012)

Spiritedly said:



			For the benefit of us thickos would someone in the know like to explain what a blood bank is/does?  Thankyou 

Click to expand...

They keep a herd of large horses to take blood from, like human donors, to sell for transfusions and I think scientific purposes. My LOU mare went to the place in Buckinghamshire. I was going to have her pts but heard about the blood bank on here and thought, "well she lives out and is easy to manage, she'd be dong something that would help other horses, why not see if they'll take her", and they did. Now she's saving numerous lives instead of endangering mine when I tried to ride her   I think Boris is also lucky getting a place there. Good on you Mrs B for seeing all this through.


----------



## HazyXmas (12 May 2012)

I live quite near to the blood bank & have a good friend that works there, i'll ask her to keep an eye out for Boris.

When will he go there? I know that they have just turned the horses out onto the summer grazing yesterday & they like the new horses to go out at this time of year so that they have the summer to settle down as a herd.

Good luck with finding a new horse.


----------



## Kat (12 May 2012)

So pleased to hear the outcome, I have been following from the beginning (commented on the pulled thread) 

Great outcome for Boris, and brilliant to hear that the seller and vet are facing action. I'd love an invite to your page so I can keep up with what is happening.


----------



## MrsB (12 May 2012)

Boris will go there around the end of May.  The chap said that he'll be kept in quarantine for a week or 2, then he'll be turned out with a couple from the herd and slowly introduced so he's got some buddies.

It's the best life that I could give and want for him


----------



## Patterdale (12 May 2012)

Just read the whole thing (quiet at work!) and I think you're amazing MrsB!

Hope it all works out


----------



## MrsB (24 May 2012)

It's B-Day for Boris - I'll let you all know how it goes later!  In the words of Vinnie Jones - "it's been emotional...."


----------



## benson21 (24 May 2012)

Thinking of you today. xx


----------



## Bikerchickone (24 May 2012)

Good luck to you and Boris, you've done a wonderful thing for him. Thinking of you both today. Xx


----------



## Mince Pie (24 May 2012)

Thinking of you today


----------



## flowerlady (24 May 2012)

MrsB said:



			It's B-Day for Boris - I'll let you all know how it goes later!  In the words of Vinnie Jones - "it's been emotional...." 

Click to expand...

I have just read this whole thread.  From what I have read you are amazing Well done.

I know this may be too soon to ask but will you have another horse?


----------



## Sandylou (24 May 2012)

Thinking of you today MrsB.
I've been away from here for a while but your thread gripped me and I've just read it from start to finish!
You're Boris's angel and I'm sure he'll be forever greatful  xxx


----------



## lillith (24 May 2012)

Wow, I have just read the whole thread, quite the epic tale. I am so sorry your first horse buying experience has been such a saga MrsB. Well done for finding somewhere for Boris where he can be useful and happy despite his injuries. 

Reading the thread though I was wondering though, is there a forum where people can post their experiences with dealers good or bad? I understand why H&H would be concerned about people posting names here due to slander issues ect as they are a large company themselves but what about a privately run forum? if there isn't would people be interested in such a thing if it were started?

It could be somewhere where people new to the sport or to an area (or experienced but coming across a new dealer) could check for report or find a good dealer (I know there are some excellent ones out there).


----------



## meesha (24 May 2012)

hope the move goes smoothly - I know you will miss him but it is a wonderful thing you have done for him and hopefully a massive weight off your mind.  Big round of applause for bringing those responsible to task x


----------



## MrsB (24 May 2012)

lillith said:



			Reading the thread though I was wondering though, is there a forum where people can post their experiences with dealers good or bad? I understand why H&H would be concerned about people posting names here due to slander issues ect as they are a large company themselves but what about a privately run forum? if there isn't would people be interested in such a thing if it were started?

It could be somewhere where people new to the sport or to an area (or experienced but coming across a new dealer) could check for report or find a good dealer (I know there are some excellent ones out there).
		
Click to expand...

The Facebook page Epona Stars is where you can post information on your experiences, good or bad.  It is run by me and it's a public page where you can post what you like; however anything which is inappropriate will be removed, but on the whole I keep most things on there.  I have had some dealers squeal about what's been written (and threatened with legal action to no avail I might add as it was not slanderous or libellous) however, it is the opinions of the posters and not me personally that are aired.  If you have had a bad experience, gone back to the dealer who have not been helpful, then fair enough, feel free to post.  If you've had a great experience, then also post too.  Those who did complain and threatened legal action were linked to the questionable vet who was also arrested.

Some people have been blocked from the page and anything which would be detrimental to any ongoing investigations are also removed.  There are a lot of people who have been affected by these dealers and dodgy vets (just like me), yet have had nowhere to voice their concerns about the experiences they've had until now.

If you want more info then click on the link to the Epona Stars page


----------



## MrsB (24 May 2012)

Well, Boris went off to the blood bank, happy as a sandboy, turned out into a lush paddock and trotted off, didn't even look back, put his head down and started to graze immediately.

So now I can be rest assured that he will live a long and happy life helping other animals, horses and humans by giving blood once a month and living a life of riley with 60 buddies that he'll be with for the rest of his life.  Perfect life for a wonderful and misunderstood boy, I'll miss you Bo-Bo... xxxx


----------



## Ibblebibble (24 May 2012)

hugs mrs B. it's been a roller coaster ride but through it all you have only had Boris' interests as priority, i raise my hat to you.xx


----------



## Fransurrey (24 May 2012)

Ladydragon said:



			Whilst acknowledging this will be a difficult parting of the ways after you've invested so much energy in Boris, this is wonderful news MrsB...  As a good, lifetime home goes, this is a great option...  And he gets to help other horses too...  I hope you'll get occasional updates on how he's doing... 

Click to expand...

Thought I'd better mention in reply to this that most horse blood is actually separated and used in medical research (mostly serum). 

Hope Boris settles in with the other donors, Mrs B. x


----------



## horsesatemymoney (24 May 2012)

Aw Mrs B, you've been completely selfless in this and secured the best future that you can for Boris, who won't be passed around anymore I really admire that you've done everything that you can, tried everything and I hope that you find some joy in the future xx


----------



## Crugeran Celt (24 May 2012)

Just read the whole thread, I am so pleased to see that Boris has found a forever home and can be a happy horse again. It makes me so mad to read about horses that are mis treated and then passed from one bad owner to the next via a few dodgy dealers, Boris is one of the very few lucky ones and it would be a lovely world if all these animals landed in the hands of decent people like the op.


----------



## Dab (24 May 2012)

hats off to you MrsB for securing a safe place for Boris to live out the rest of his life   

we salute you


----------



## pookie (24 May 2012)

Just finished reading all 36 pages. Incredible, MrsB...Boris was so lucky to have found you as an owner and your strength through all this is inspirational. I'm so pleased Boris has such a lovely lilfetime home...now to deal with the dealers...


----------



## Ladydragon (24 May 2012)

Fransurrey said:



			Thought I'd better mention in reply to this that most horse blood is actually separated and used in medical research (mostly serum). 

Click to expand...

Not sure why you picked my post to 'clarify'...  Unless petri dishes etc are never used in equine vet care...


----------



## cambrica (24 May 2012)

If only I were a script writer.
I think you are amazing MrsB. Boris is now one very famous boy and in the hearts of so many. 
Such a sad story with a happy ending and hopefully one that will prevent others from having to endure what you have been through.


----------



## ELFSBELLS (24 May 2012)

Phew, just read all of the thread, what a roller coaster ride you've been on, I really admire the way you have dealt with everything and putting Boris' s well being foremost, I'm so pleased you. Have found him a forever home and wish you all the luck in the world with everything else you still have to deal with x


----------



## MrsB (25 May 2012)

Thanks again for all your kind words of support - so much appreciated!


----------



## liz4949 (25 May 2012)

Like so many others reading this I haven't felt I could contribute anything constructive through this. I just wanted to say a huge well done in your efforts to help Boris and finding such a wonderful future for him.


----------



## Fransurrey (25 May 2012)

Ladydragon said:



			Not sure why you picked my post to 'clarify'...  Unless petri dishes etc are never used in equine vet care...

Click to expand...

Because I only have time to read the last page, Ladydragon. Nothing personal, honest! I was referring to the fact that some people think equine blood banks are just for other horses, when actually, they're a minority benefactor. Didn't mean to cause offence. I'll shut me mouth, now!


----------



## Ladydragon (25 May 2012)

Fransurrey said:



			Because I only have time to read the last page, Ladydragon. Nothing personal, honest! I was referring to the fact that some people think equine blood banks are just for other horses, when actually, they're a minority benefactor. Didn't mean to cause offence. I'll shut me mouth, now! 

Click to expand...

Ah...right...  I see...  Thank you for explaining - I thought I'd written something 'wrong' in some way...  A regular occurrence... 

I've also been a bit grouchy the last few days and may have responded somewhat defensively when I shouldn't have... Apologies for that...  Keep talking and no offence taken...


----------



## NooNoo59 (25 May 2012)

Well done Mrs B for not being a pushover, this exactly why dealers should be licensed and certain vets should never go near an animal again.  Have not got time to read all the thread, are you going to try again or has this put you off?, if its the dealers i think it is they are still advertising on Horsemart, this needs to go into the national press so that everyone knows about it, can trading standards not do something to stop this happening or are they going to wait until someone gets killed before they do anything?


----------



## NoseyPosey (25 May 2012)

MrsB said:



			There'll be a tear in my eye as I won't be able to visit him due to strict regulations regarding infections etc. but at least he's going to a wonderful life with loads of mates, in a field in the summer, barn in the winter, plenty of food and company - what more could I ask for such a wonderful boy?
		
Click to expand...

Sorry to hear this MrsB - will they still update you with how he's doing though? Can you get someone there to send pics etc? It really is a shame that they can't make provision for visitors, especially as it's not too far away. Surely, they can protect against infection etc. in the same way as they would with emplyees?


----------



## MrsB (25 May 2012)

Rosieshire - it's not like that really, the horses live in herds and now I know where he is I can pop my head over the fence and see if I can see him in the 1000+ acres they have!!!  They revert to 'herd mentality' very quickly and aren't really handled much at all, only to have blood taken and feet/teeth trimmed and they are always in the herd even during the above processes.  They bring nothing into the farm, they grow all their own feed/straw to prevent any infections and a horse can't have blood taken if they have any medication whatsoever.

I'm very happy with my decision and know that he is happy and safe where he is!


----------



## MrsB (27 June 2012)

Hi Everyone!

I've just spoken to the BloodBank who inform me that Boris is doing very well and has integrated into the herd nicely and has lots of friends 

Such a pleasing outcome for my poor boy... at least he can now be a horse with no pressure, worries, pain or a string of owners who never took the time to understand him...

Thanks to everyone who has sent me messages and support over the last few months - it really has been so very well appreciated and thanks to everyone's support for Epona Stars too 

xxxxxxxx


----------



## TrasaM (27 June 2012)

Well done mrsB. Good to know the story had a happy ending for Boris.


----------



## Hedgewitch13 (27 June 2012)

Awww that's so good to hear


----------



## Slightlyconfused (27 June 2012)

Yay, thats fab.
,xx


----------



## Amymay (27 June 2012)

Brilliant update.


----------



## Stace (27 June 2012)

So pleased Boris is all sorted now and the story ends with a happy ending.

Well done Mrs B


----------



## Bojingles (27 June 2012)

I've been following this thread as a lurker, what a brilliant outcome. Boris was very  lucky to have come across you Mrs B.


----------



## Bikerchickone (27 June 2012)

I came across your post on Facebook earlier and did wonder how Boris was doing. So glad it worked out for him in the end. Really hope the legal side goes your way too after all you've been through. Great update, thanks  x


----------



## djlynwood (27 June 2012)

Copperpot said:



			From the pics of Boris in his former glory I can tell where you bought him from. All their horses advertised have those plaits in their manes. 

Fingers crossed for you and Boris x
		
Click to expand...

I see these a lot on Horsemart for a dealer in Kent, they are still on there.

Just read the whole thread as not seen it before. You are truly an amazing person MrsB and I shudder to think what would have come of Boris had your paths not crossed.


----------



## Fairytale (27 June 2012)

O my goodness, I've just read this from start to finish and feel utterly drained!!!!  

Such an emotive story, poor Boris and poor you too, but every credit, and more, to you for persevering with the lovely Boris and despite everything ensuring him a future in the best possible environment.  

Fairy x


----------



## Ladydragon (27 June 2012)

Lovely update MrsB...


----------



## Chavhorse (27 June 2012)

Glad Big B is fitting in well at the Blood Bank Mrs B 
	
	
		
		
	


	





Thanks for the update xx


----------



## MrsB (27 June 2012)

Awww, thanks again everyone


----------



## MrsB (10 July 2012)

I spoke to the blood bank agian the other day, they said I can visit - I just need to call and they'll meet me and try to point out Boris in amongst the 1000 acres and hundreds of other horses!!!

It really is an amazing place and literally horse heaven.  I will put up some details regarding the blood bank on the Epona Stars page, so if you have a horse that could benefit from helping others, please get in touch!

And thanks again for so many of your lovely messages!


----------



## Flummoxed (10 July 2012)

Take a telephoto lens - and post a pic after the visit.


----------



## Buds_mum (10 July 2012)

This whole thread has been so emotive, so pleased for Boris. What a lovely life he'll have now  Well done Mrs B.
Are you planning on another neddy? I do so hope you are as you sound like the type of owner every horse should have 
Just being nosy really but if you give your horse to the blood bank do they legally own them? Or are they still technically yours?


----------



## TuscanBunnyGirl (10 July 2012)

You really are fantastic!! 

please take a pic or two if you can!!

I hope one day you will have the horse of your dreams- you totally deserve it.


----------



## MrsB (10 July 2012)

Buds_mum said:



			This whole thread has been so emotive, so pleased for Boris. What a lovely life he'll have now  Well done Mrs B.
Are you planning on another neddy? I do so hope you are as you sound like the type of owner every horse should have 
Just being nosy really but if you give your horse to the blood bank do they legally own them? Or are they still technically yours?
		
Click to expand...

Awww, thanks 

Yes, you hand your horse over and they legally own them.

I do have another neddy - his name is Darcy and you can check him out on the Epona Stars page, he is rather fabulous


----------



## SKW (10 July 2012)

Brilliant! So pleased it has all worked out...


----------



## Buds_mum (10 July 2012)

MrsB said:



			Awww, thanks 

Yes, you hand your horse over and they legally own them.

I do have another neddy - his name is Darcy and you can check him out on the Epona Stars page, he is rather fabulous 

Click to expand...

He is just heaven!


----------



## Ladydragon (11 July 2012)

MrsB said:



			I spoke to the blood bank agian the other day, they said I can visit - I just need to call and they'll meet me and try to point out Boris in amongst the 1000 acres and hundreds of other horses!!!
		
Click to expand...

That's lovely news...  Whether you feel the need to go there or not, the priority was finding him somewhere safe and responsible - you did just that...


----------



## pam33 (22 July 2012)

Hi there i know how you feel !!!!! i to have brought my first horse when i went to see her she was so calm and happy easy to saddle and tack up no prob had vet come check her out and apart from a small wart on her chest was given a good bill of health. Got her on the sunday and she was a happy calm horse took her out on the tuesday and found it very hard to get her to take the bit and was moving around when i was trying to mount her, finaly managed to get on and have a small hack out as she two was under whight. She loved to be brushed and talked to. Now two weeks later i have found out from my own vet her teeth need work, worn down at front and to long at back. She needs phisyo on her back and shoulders due to unfitted saddle. My vet also said she is older than whot her passport says she was ment to be 17 and been told she is more likely 21. 
i tried to tack her up two weeks later and she will not take the bit at all, and as soon as she sees  the saddle thats it she is off her rocker bucks kicks and trys to squash me in a corner, tried to tack up outside and she is just the same. I spoke to seller after 100 phone calls to be laughted at and told she had had a calmer and she hung up on me. 
I am noe stuck paying for trainer and dentist and phsyo


----------



## chattyday84 (23 July 2012)

pam33 said:



			Hi there i know how you feel !!!!! i to have brought my first horse when i went to see her she was so calm and happy easy to saddle and tack up no prob had vet come check her out and apart from a small wart on her chest was given a good bill of health. Got her on the sunday and she was a happy calm horse took her out on the tuesday and found it very hard to get her to take the bit and was moving around when i was trying to mount her, finaly managed to get on and have a small hack out as she two was under whight. She loved to be brushed and talked to. Now two weeks later i have found out from my own vet her teeth need work, worn down at front and to long at back. She needs phisyo on her back and shoulders due to unfitted saddle. My vet also said she is older than whot her passport says she was ment to be 17 and been told she is more likely 21. 
i tried to tack her up two weeks later and she will not take the bit at all, and as soon as she sees  the saddle thats it she is off her rocker bucks kicks and trys to squash me in a corner, tried to tack up outside and she is just the same. I spoke to seller after 100 phone calls to be laughted at and told she had had a calmer and she hung up on me. 
I am noe stuck paying for trainer and dentist and phsyo 

Click to expand...

hi there 
where did your horse come from? when the person told you it had been given calmers??? im really sorry to hear such bad things about these horse dealers dont they realise these are animals not cars and the horse suffers in turn as well as the buyer xx


----------



## MrsB (11 August 2012)

The RCVS wrote to me the other day following on from a meeting they had and they are going to carry out further investigations...

So we'll have to wait and see what they find!


----------



## Pearlsasinger (11 August 2012)

Good!

This needs stopping!


----------



## Avp101 (11 August 2012)

I had aq similar situation with my first pony, exactly the same advertised as a snaffle mouthed excellent first pony, when we got there he was a bit skinny and they put it down to stress of moving ( as they hadnt had him long) rode him and he was lovely, got him home and after feeding him up a bit he became a nightmare, he ised to buck me off all the time, rear up in the stable and whenever you wanted to go into the school, we had the vet out to check everything and turns out he had been sedated aswell as starved, tried to send him back and when we managed to get hold of her she had him back and phoned up a couple of days later stating that we needed to go and get him straight away as her 40 y/o daughter couldnt even sit on him, to which we replied that i was 13 at the time and had dealt with him on my own for the last 8 weeks, so we had him back and had more tests done, turned out he had a brain tumour and it was getting bigger so he had to be put to sleep. sorry for the negative reply but some people will do anything to sell on a horse, there not botherd who buys it or rides it and the possible danger they pose to everyone, they just want the money.


----------



## Goldenstar (11 August 2012)

Good news Mrs B it will be very interesting to see what they do.


----------



## MrsB (3 October 2012)

The Police and the RCVS are now working together too - so fingers crossed!!


----------



## Amymay (3 October 2012)

MrsB said:



			The Police and the RCVS are now working together too - so fingers crossed!!
		
Click to expand...

As Pan would put it:

 +1


----------



## OldNag (3 October 2012)

MrsB said:



			The Police and the RCVS are now working together too - so fingers crossed!!
		
Click to expand...

That is good news MrsB. Keep us posted!


----------



## MrsB (3 October 2012)

Plus I have also sent a stack of info to my credit card company regarding a refund for the vetting and blood tests!  They were shocked when I went into the details (can't on here for fear of being reprimanded for speaking the truth  )


----------



## Twinkley Lights (3 October 2012)

Thank goodness this boy found you .  I'm trying to do the right thing by my own misold rearer and found some very similar themes in your posts.  Good luck.


----------



## kellybee (4 October 2012)

Sorry, haven't read the entire thread but I wow, what a story! Hats off, and glad he's now comfortable and happy


----------



## MrsB (4 October 2012)

KellyBee, was just going to say read a bit more and then you edited your post


----------



## kellybee (4 October 2012)

I got right to the bit before he was diagnosed, posted a reply and carried on reading. Duh!! Lol.

I've just finished reading all 40-odd pages and as I write I'm bawling my eyes out. I'm floored by their cold, selfish, irresponsibility and outright cruelty and I can't believe, firstly what those people put you and Boris through, and secondly, that in doing right by your own horse you've done great _great _things for any horse which may have ended up in their hands.

He's horse that's given so much, and even now he's still giving. I've never met him but having read all that, I don't think I could ever forget him.

I wish there were more folk like you in this world. God bless you both.


----------



## MrsB (5 October 2012)

KellyBee - thanks for your kind words  

Well things are moving along and more people are coming forward with their stories, some worse than mine - it's a very sad, sad business....

Someday, I'm hoping that justice will be served for the horses and the victims.


----------



## kellybee (5 October 2012)

Just think how many folk have bought elsewhere because of the heightened awareness. Maybe they'll be out of business before it ever gets to that. Sure hope so!


----------



## MrsB (7 October 2012)

One can only hope that'll be the case... there are honest and decent sellers out there, but finding them is hard!


----------



## missroses nanna (11 October 2012)

Just gone though the whole 41 pages.......You are a star Mrs B x


----------



## Snowy1 (11 October 2012)

Mrs B you may wish to check out the BSJA page on Facebook there is an interesting open day coming up.


----------



## MrsB (8 November 2012)

Boris is now in for the winter with his buddies, tucked up in their massive barns in their herds with plenty of food 

Thanks for everyone's support over this whole ordeal, hopefully things will be going to the next level soon


----------



## Slightlyconfused (9 November 2012)

That's good.
Glad he is getting on well.


----------



## TrasaM (9 November 2012)

Sounds like a good life for Boris horse  let's hope the rest of the tale gets resolved with a similarly happy outcome.


----------



## vkw_83 (1 December 2012)

Ive just read this from start to finish. I am now an emotional wreck and have so much respect for you Mrs B! 

I really hope these individuals get whats coming to them...


----------



## MrsB (7 December 2012)

Quite unbelieveably, I've received some threatening emails from someone who shall remain anonymous until the time is right.  Amongst other things, they said they felt sorry for Boris and that I should be ashamed for sending him to the blood bank and said he was now a 'pin cushion' 

This short-sighted cretin doesn't know what I went through for that horse, and I know exactly what they would have done, had Boris had been in their unfortunate hands.

Words fail me...


----------



## Black_Horse_White (7 December 2012)

You could have quiet easily passed him on or had him PTS. He now has a good quality of life thanks to you. It's the person who sold him to you in the first place who is to blame in all of this.


----------



## Black_Horse_White (7 December 2012)

Quite not quiet!


----------



## dianchi (7 December 2012)

I do hear alot of people voicing those opinions, and how cruel the blood banks are, personally i think they are stupid and a waste of time!
So what happens when their horse needs a blood transfusion......................................


----------



## MrsB (7 December 2012)

The blood bank is primarily a research facility - it uses the blood taken from the horses for use in petri dishes, to grow cultures/bacteria etc. in hospitals, GP surgeries, drug research and a whole heap of other things, it's not just for horses.

This is why when people say such stupid, idiotic uneducated remarks such as this, little do they know that the next time they go to the doctors (shame they can't dish out common sense ) for whatever treatment, it's highly likely that whatever medication they receive, it will have seen horse blood at some point or another in order to be tested.

So the blood bank helps humans and other animals too and the care that the horses receive is exceptional, or Boris would not have gone there.  Simple.


----------



## PandorasJar (7 December 2012)

Blood bank is an amazing place and I wouldn't hesitate to send a horse there if necessary. They have a good life helping others.
Obviously someone without a back bone if they feel the need to threaten privately x


----------



## Christsam (7 December 2012)

Thats awful Mrs B.  I havent read the whole thread but skipped through but sounds like you did the right thing.  He now has a purpose instead of just being pts or sold on through loads of different owners.  Certainly something I would consider if it ever came to it.  Hope boris is well and you get to see him


----------



## TrasaM (7 December 2012)

The world is full of ignorant misinformed eejits!  Ignore. You did the best thing possible. I hope you know the identity of the sender.


----------



## Hedgewitch13 (7 December 2012)

I'm not normally a 'name and shame' person but after everything you went through with Boris I'd be bleddy fuming and tell the world. 

Some people are just born stupid and nothing will ever change that...


----------



## Moogleberry (7 December 2012)

Sorry to read this has all been stirred up again although in a different direction

I found this thread a few months ago and read right through it, I was looking to buy my first horse at the time and I learnt so much from what you had been through, I did think at the time the dealers who sold you boris wil regret the day they did it, I also follow your FB page.  (I did buy from a dealer in the end and they were lovely, honest and supportive)

Don't be pulled down by some coward who has no idea of what you have achieved, that horse is damn lucky to have found you!

You are obviously a strong and capable person who has shown a great deal of backbone in taking on the bad sellers and I think you would find you have a lot more people respect your actions than criticise them!


----------



## Ibblebibble (7 December 2012)

is it through HHO you have received these emails or through FB? either way the sender is a pathetic coward
You and Epona stars are doing a great job of exposing the scum of the horse dealer world, obviously your success' will upset a few of them as they are going to feel the effects on their pockets but don't give up mrsB when they start resorting to threats and intimidation you know you have them on the run


----------



## applecart14 (7 December 2012)

It sounds like the OP did everything right for the horse in terms of back, feet, saddle, teeth etc.


----------



## applecart14 (7 December 2012)

MrsB said:



			I spoke to the blood bank agian the other day, they said I can visit - I just need to call and they'll meet me and try to point out Boris in amongst the 1000 acres and hundreds of other horses!!!

It really is an amazing place and literally horse heaven.  I will put up some details regarding the blood bank on the Epona Stars page, so if you have a horse that could benefit from helping others, please get in touch!

And thanks again for so many of your lovely messages! 

Click to expand...

Thank you Mrs B.  My best friends horse has gone there, to the one in Milton Keynes and is living the good life.  He has also be joined by another horse from the same yard.  It gets such a bad press and my friend has been attacked verbally on this site previously when her horse was sent there.


----------



## MrsB (7 December 2012)

Moogleberry said:



			Sorry to read this has all been stirred up again although in a different direction

I found this thread a few months ago and read right through it, I was looking to buy my first horse at the time and I learnt so much from what you had been through, I did think at the time the dealers who sold you boris wil regret the day they did it, I also follow your FB page.  (I did buy from a dealer in the end and they were lovely, honest and supportive)

Don't be pulled down by some coward who has no idea of what you have achieved, that horse is damn lucky to have found you!

You are obviously a strong and capable person who has shown a great deal of backbone in taking on the bad sellers and I think you would find you have a lot more people respect your actions than criticise them! 

Click to expand...

Thanks so much for this post and to all the other positive comments received, it really is fantastic to know that people have taken something away from this to help find their horse   And can you PM me the dealer as I'm looking to compile a 'good dealer' list - thank you


----------



## LaurenBay (7 December 2012)

I have learnt so much from this thread OP so glad you posted.

You did the best for your boy.

Before this I had never even heard of a blood bank, after doing some research I wouldn't hesitate to send any of mind there.

People can be nasty, keep your chin up and feel proud you have given Boris a chance.


----------



## MrsB (8 December 2012)

Thanks again for everyon's support, it really is appreciated 

And so glad that people have learned and taken stuff away from this hideous series of events


----------



## MrsB (8 December 2012)

Ibblebibble said:



			is it through HHO you have received these emails or through FB? either way the sender is a pathetic coward
You and Epona stars are doing a great job of exposing the scum of the horse dealer world, obviously your success' will upset a few of them as they are going to feel the effects on their pockets but don't give up mrsB when they start resorting to threats and intimidation you know you have them on the run

Click to expand...

They messaged me though Eponastars@hotmail.co.uk because they were blocked from messaging via FB.  I can't believe how foolish they are because I'm a witness and they're threatening and trying to intimidate me.  Never mind, the Police have all the info now 

Their underhand tactics are really something else too, alternative FB user accounts in order to gain personal information on me (which has been successful to some degree), using members of their family to try and get on Epona's page, personal insults and abuse being made on other FB pages... it's all quite ridiculous when you'd actually think they'd keep their heads down and try and stay out of trouble.

Still, I guess some people just can't help themselves


----------



## MrsB (8 December 2012)

And please don't guess or put any names down here as I don't want this epic thread to get pulled - thanks


----------

