# Very sick horse



## Aces_High (12 September 2010)

As title says my horse this morning looks like he's dropped 50kg's over night.  He's staggering around the paddock, listless and looking depressed.  Vet out run bloods, get full results in the morning, had painkillers and Anti Inflamms.  Vet out again this evening tubed him fluids and electrolytes, more painkillers.  Still staggering.  Is eating his hard feed.  Not really after anything other than some good vibes.  Down in the dumps to say the least hence my to the point post.


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## EMWSanctuaries (12 September 2010)

Viral by the sound of it.sometimes onset of strangles can do this rapid weight loss, but I'd be more than a bit worried and hate to say it, but could it be grass sickness?
sorry Edited to add not being doom and gloom. Hope bloods show cause and it's easy fixed tomorrow.


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## TinselRider (12 September 2010)

Poor thing  Hugs to you aswell x

Is there any way he could have eaten some acorns ?


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## LizzyandToddy (12 September 2010)

Can only hope that the bloods come back with some better news 
Chin up, and lots of good vibes from me!! 
-i've been there and its not nice!! 
just think positive! x


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## Chellebean (12 September 2010)

aww poor thing ***hugs and vibes*** 

keep us up dated


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## Doris68 (12 September 2010)

I'm probably totally wrong, but I recall several years ago, a friend's horse had very similar symptoms and it was diagnosed as botulism.  Very rare in horses and the (old & experienced) vet said he'd only seen it once in his lifetime.  I sincerely hope that I am wrong and hope that the cause of this rapid weight loss can be found.

Good luck and fingers crossed for you.


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## Aces_High (12 September 2010)

Doubtful grass sickness due to time of year and the weather conditions haven't be "grass sickness" esq.  Did mention to vet along with EHV, EIA etc.  Looks like he's been poisoned and sedated.  No temperature and heart rate normal, first hist report came back low WBC and anemia - common with viral infection.  Waiting for the bio-chemists to be back in lab in the morning.  Unlikely strangles - use equine vets who went on other calls after mine.  I keep my horses on my farm and no contact with other people/horses.  Just sad


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## Echo Bravo (12 September 2010)

Many (((((((vibes and hugs))))))))))


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## brighteyes (12 September 2010)

Crikey - I have everything crossed for your horse and hope whatever he has is treatable.


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## michellev123 (12 September 2010)

I hope he gets better. <<<vibes>>>


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## Aces_High (12 September 2010)

Thank you guys.  Will mention botulism tomorrow morning....  I've mentioned almost all the causes I can think of so everything is crossed.  So weird as was 100% yesterday and -100% this morning.  Just want him to be back to normal - is still neighing when I feed him but is just so sick.  Sorry my sentence structure has gone out of the window.  Off to check him now whilst still a glimmer of day light


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## Bearsmum (12 September 2010)

Sorry no ideas as to what it might be, but huge vibes coming your way for an early diagnosis and treatment.

JDx


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## ladyt25 (12 September 2010)

With such a sudden onset it sounds like some form of poisoning to be honest but the problem is finding from what!  Is he kept out 24/7 or in part of the time? I would be checking the field for anything he could have ingested. Are there any elderberries or anything similar about? I knew a horse who used to gorge on elderberries and would stagger about, fall etc etc (essentially like being drunk) but would recover within a couple of days.

I thought botulism could only come from feeding silage? So, not sure it could be this unless you are feeding haylage maybe that is not of good quality? I amnot sure if botulism can come from any other source.

I hope they get to the bottom of it, it's never nice when our horses suddenly get poorly.


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## Cuffey (12 September 2010)

Sounds like ryegrass staggers or similar--toxins in the grazing
http://www.horsetalk.co.nz/health/109-staggers.shtml

A poster on IHDG had something similar recently will try to find thread for you


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## Ravenwood (12 September 2010)

Oh crikey - you must be beside yourself  

Is there a stream in his paddock?  Just check that there is no drop wart water hemlock growing in it - thats what killed our pony 

All fingers crossed that he pulls through by the morning xx


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## MrsMozart (12 September 2010)

Sorry, no useful words or ideas, but wanted to send hugs and thoughts and fingers crossed.

Let us know how you go.


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## Cuffey (12 September 2010)

hope this is useful--good luck

http://ihdg.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=ght10&thread=108195&page=1#1352607


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## Moggy in Manolos (12 September 2010)

I hope your horse will be ok, must be a real worry for you


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## Mike007 (12 September 2010)

It could be a lot of things ,most of which are not serious.You are clearly doing all the right things,Vet,and monitoring him. None of this is going to stop you worrying like crazy,keep us informed because we are all worrying too now.


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## oscarwild (12 September 2010)

Sorry not much to add but I have my fingers crossed for a early diagnosis and hope its easily treatable.

I've been in your position and I now how you feel.

*HUGS* to you and please keep us posted on how he's doing.


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## Penny Less (12 September 2010)

Can I ask which part of the country you are in Aceshigh?

Sorry, do have a reason for asking .


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## Aces_High (12 September 2010)

Alma - I've PM'd you location.  Just got back from checking him.  All of his supper is cleared up and he was picking at grass.  He's now his stable as his staggering has worsened and another phone call to my super vet and talk of hospitalising him which I've gone against as he's not insured so funds for cause and fix rather than hospital.  Might sound hard nosed to the younger readers but I have to be realistic.  Will be checking him every hour and if he deteriorates then vet will be coming out.  Temperature, heart rate still normal.  I metioned staggers this morning as I know it's common in cows.  Mentioned botulism and that's generally a cross a line through everything and then it's botulism (comes through ingesting the toxin) odd dead rabbit in fields from pussy cats but nothing untoward.  Just hope he makes it through the night as we can aim for some more clues once his bloods are back.  Really not sure what I'll do if he doesn't.


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## misst (12 September 2010)

You do not sound hard nosed at all. It must be awful to just have to wait and see. (((vibes))) for a recovery asap.


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## MochaDun (12 September 2010)

How scary for you.  So sorry to hear what a bad day you've had.  Thinking of you and wishing him well and no deterioration overnight.


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## Aces_High (12 September 2010)

Cuffey - thanks for the link - I did mention that to vet this morning. There isn't a stream or ditches though the paddocks.  Just have no idea and the vets are stumped too.  This waiting game is against me completely - just wish it was Monday and had his histology reports in my hands.  Thanks again to all the kind words.  I hope the positive vibes to Max keep him going through the night......


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## SVMel (12 September 2010)

Fingers crossed for you, vibes for the long night ahead.

Keep us updated xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## Boxers (12 September 2010)

Sending you some good luck.  Hope he goes through the night ok.  I'm sure you won't sleep a wink.  Hoping tomorrow brings some answers and cures.


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## Cuffey (12 September 2010)

Fingers crossed for you

Staggers in cattle (metabolic) absolutely no connection with ryegrass staggers in horses
Your vet may never have seen a horse with ryegrass staggers
(Cattle easily sorted if caught quickly with magnesium and calcium salts)

The lady on IHDG was told to keep her horses quiet, so not going to referral maybe for the best and hers did get better.


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## immoralorchid (12 September 2010)

im so sorry sending cyber hugs and good will vibes hope the results come back with something treatable xx


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## dozzie (12 September 2010)

((((((((((((((((((Vibes))))))))))))))))))))))

Cant help with any suggestions. But hope he gets better.


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## Aces_High (12 September 2010)

I've read the link more thoroughly and was great that hers made a full recovery.  I am relying on all of your positive thoughts as I can't get my hopes up.


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## Archiesmummy (12 September 2010)

Thinking of you and hoping things improve x


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## HollyWoozle (12 September 2010)

Good luck vibes coming your way, I hope your horse picks up soon. *hugs*


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## Ilovefoals (12 September 2010)

I'm crossing my fingers for you. I hope it's something easily treated. xx


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## loz9 (12 September 2010)

(((((HUGS & VIBES)))))) what an awful situation for you to be in. Hope he get better soon.


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## Puzzled (12 September 2010)

Sending lots of <<<vibes>>>.


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## guisbrogal (12 September 2010)

Huge hugs and I will be praying he akes it through the night. What a worry for you 
xx


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## smossy (12 September 2010)

sending lots of healing vibes ((((((((((((((())))))))))))))))) and got all crossed,try not to look to much on the dark side,wait until you get results back. 
 give him lots of hugs from us all.


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## ohboy (12 September 2010)

get well soon fella xxx


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## thinlizzy (12 September 2010)

Poor you and horse cant say what it is but i have seen a horse with grass sickness he seemed colicky definatly wouldnt eat or drink was losing water at the mouth/not froth  looked as if hed kicked water all over his stable or slopped it as if hed been drinking loads .Maybe a good sign is your horse is picking/eating ?Vet told me once when pondering over one sick animal who was old  vet said if hes eating thats a good sign..........will watch for updates x


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## flirtygerty (12 September 2010)

Hope he gets through this, big hugs


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## Pearlsasinger (12 September 2010)

All crossed for you both here. 
Been there, done that and it's horrible.
Although we've no suggestions to make as to what it might be, at least he's eating.  Is he drinking as well?


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## Gleeful Imp (12 September 2010)

Good luck hon. Sending you many vibes and I'll keep my fingers crossed. 

I've been through grass sickness and apart from weight loss, symptoms don't match. But I do think still eating is a very good sign
xxx


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## jodie3 (12 September 2010)

No helpful suggestions but fingers etc crossed here for you too and lots of healing vibes coming your way.

As others have said the fact he is eating must be a good sign?


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## Blaise (12 September 2010)

Big hugs for you, fingers crossed that test results tomorrow will explain more. It's a horrible feeling isn't it. One of mine has been colicking all day, she isn't anywhere near as bad as your boy sounds but it's so worrying   Sending lots of (((vibes))) your way. xx


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## cumbriamax (12 September 2010)

so sorry to hear your news and I hope you have better news to post tomorrow. hmm one of mine had grass sickness years ago but she wasn't eating its the longest hrs/days of your life when this happens. am not much help but just wanted to wish you luck.. hope horse is better soon,


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## scatty_mare (12 September 2010)

Everything crossed for you both. Sending positive healing vibes in your direction. Keep us updated.


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## HBBambee (12 September 2010)

Really feel for you, Hopefully will be good news in the morning for you!

If this helps my pony had botulism 2 years ago-she is an absolute pig and so we were feeding her my v.fussy horses haylage out of the haybar and vet said it had probably started to ferment and so contained the toxin.

she went so poorly in one day, dropped weight and started staggering and was tripping when walking. it was almost as if she had really severe arthritus as her joints became really stiff.

it took her about a month to fully recover and she recently had a foal this june 2 years later.

her main signs were: 
stumbling, tripping, really slow chewing action as muscle were v.weak, she couldnt drink from a bucket from the floor as her swallow reflex partially stopped working, so put the bucket up so she didnt have to bend down. vet suggested we got her up regulary if she lay down as if they are down for a long time they may not get up again.misty ate all the time (being so gready) and never stopped trying to eat so i think this was such a good thing for her recovery.

don't mean to worry you at all as really hope it is not this for your horse, but hope it helps incase you do notice any changes in him/her.

hope all is good news in the morning x lots of vibes for you x


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## Cedars (12 September 2010)

Is there any way he could have been poisoned? How horrifically awful for you. Will keep my fingers crossed.


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## horsecrazy25 (12 September 2010)

So sorry 2 hear this hun, <<<Hugs and Vibes>>> hope it nothing 2 serious xx


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## Louby (12 September 2010)

So sorry to read this, I really hope hes ok. Its upsetting enough when you know whats wrong with them but it must be terrible not knowing what is wrong.
Everything crossed for the results x x


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## marinitagsd (12 September 2010)

OMG!! Really hope he is ok. Hugs and vibes!! xx


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## treena (12 September 2010)

clostridium???? or something like that...


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## Aces_High (12 September 2010)

Just got back from hourly check and he seems much perkier in himself..... ears pricked and has eaten a packet of polo's.  Has also had a little windsuck (collar is off at mo).  He is still very unstable on his feet but was more aware of his surroundings.  His coat isn't looking as stary and dull but under lights it can be deceiving.  He hasn't been drinking much hence was tubed earlier with fluids and electrolytes.  He's been eating his straw over his hay.  I think it's going to be a long night and I hope he stays how he is.  Thanks for poster who mentioned her horse with botulism and also people saying his symptoms don't sound like theirs who had GS.  My other thought was EDM as that was prevelant in my area over winter - again conditions don't fit.  Like the botulism case, if he goes down he's allowed to stay down for a couple of hours then if he's not up I'm to try and get him up..... 620kg of TB....  He'd be pretty exhausted from today's events so far.  Thanks for the positive vibes and healing vibes which are passing through to Max.  Maybe that's why he's perked up?


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## Pearlsasinger (12 September 2010)

So glad the news is a bit better, I do hope he continues to improve.


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## SO1 (12 September 2010)

fingers crossed he will return to normal health - sounds good if he looks perky and is eating and seeming a bit better


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## Aces_High (12 September 2010)

Off for next check now - will post on my return and then to bed for my hourly checks.


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## fabulous_fi (12 September 2010)

Hugs and vibes and absolutely everything crossed!!  

Oh I hope everything will be ok...please keep us posted.  

xx


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## lillie07 (12 September 2010)

Thinking of you both tonight. Hope he gets well soon.


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## Mike007 (12 September 2010)

Vibes and hugs,go with your instincts,if you arent happy ,get the vet back out.


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## Aces_High (12 September 2010)

Seems very much the same as an hour ago which is good. Going to try and rest a little now - will post in the morning, vet is out at 7.30 to take swabs and pain relief.  Thank you so much On-Line support really has helped, as have my pals who bought me supper to the stables.


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## Ravenwood (12 September 2010)

I will be thinking of you tomorrow when you get the results back.  

Plenty more vibes winging their way over to you xxxx


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## oscarwild (13 September 2010)

Aww thats good to hear that your boy isnt any worse than a hr ago.
Will be thinking of you tomorrow for you getting your results back and I hope you get some good news.
Hope you get some sleep tonight altho having been through a mystery illness with my boy a few months ago I now you'll find it tough.
So have some hugs and sending your boy some BIG healing vibes to make him feel better. xx


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## Mike007 (13 September 2010)

Yes ,get some sleep ,I will do the night shift worrying ,for you. Horses are quite tough actualy,remember that.Keep us posted.


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## MrsMozart (13 September 2010)

Still have everything crossed hun. Thinking of you both. Will look for an update and willing it to be a good one.


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## Montyforever (13 September 2010)

Vibes to pony and *hugs* to you 

Hope the update in the morning is a good one! xx


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## Bustermartin (13 September 2010)

Poor you, poor him.  Hope the rest of the night was OK and that the vet has good news this morning.   <<<<<<<hugs and mega vibes>>>>>>>


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## jesterfaerie (13 September 2010)

(((((((((((((masses of positive vibes)))))))))))))))
How is he this morning?


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## TheCurlyPony (13 September 2010)

Hi,

Not been on line for a few days, have pmu.  XX


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## EMWSanctuaries (13 September 2010)

Another one here wondering how your boy is doing. Everything crossed it's good news today and he's brighter.
emw
xx


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## LauraWheeler (13 September 2010)

Just seen this. Sending your boy lots of ((((((((((vibes)))))))))) and you lots of (((((((((((hugs)))))))))). 
I know it's the not knowing whats wrong thats the worst thing. It was awful when my vets couldn't work out what was wrong with Lucy. To see her so ill and trying to stay strong for her but having no idea what was happening or how to help her was so upsetting. 
I hope today brings you more answers and you can start helping your boy on the road to recovery.


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## debsflo (13 September 2010)

really hoping things are a bit better this morning.let us know.


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## Lady La La (13 September 2010)

Only just read this. I have everything crossed for you.
How are things this am?


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## riding_high (13 September 2010)

sorry to hear your boy isn't feeling too well, hope he's alot better this morning and the vet has some definate answers for you.

just as a thought though, what about liver fluke? my horse had it and he dropped in weight, aged and got depressed and wobbly over night, literally.


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## Dizzydancer (13 September 2010)

Hope your boy is much better this morning, let us all know the results today.

Fingers crossed for you ((((hugs)))) x


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## Cazzah (13 September 2010)

Have just seen this and hope that he has been OK throught the night and that your vet has some difinitive (and good) news for you this morning?

My TB had very similar sounding symptoms a couple of years ago when he came down with peritonitis. No cause was ever found but after a week of touch and go he made a full recovery. This was diagnosed by a stomach tap.

Hope your news is good this morning - please let us know!
(((hugs)))


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## Ashgrove (13 September 2010)

Has the vet been?

What did they say?

~~~~~Vibes~~~~~ to your horse and 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 to you.


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## akashapachamama (13 September 2010)

How is he this morning? You must be so so worried but well done, youre doing all the right things. Keep being strong for your boy and I hope he pulls through and everything works out ok.
HUGS and vibes...


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## Aces_High (13 September 2010)

Hi all,

He's not deterioted over night but is more wobbly on his feet.  He's also hypersensitive to touch now.  Yesterday he was vacant and didn't move to movement around his eyes/head.  He's going to the loo as normal, temp and heart rate good.  More bloods drawn, swabs taken so have to wait for the results.  He ate all his breakfast and licked his manger clean.  Not taking in any fluids but has very sloppy sugarbeet in his feed.  Hopefully have something to work on when his results come back from the lab.  Many thanks again to all the postive vibes.


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## TallyHo123 (13 September 2010)

Vibes for your horse and *hugs* for you.
Hope you find out what's wrong with him and that he makes a full recovery. Sounds promising that he has got slightly better rather than any worse, hope he keeps getting stronger x


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## Boxers (13 September 2010)

Glad to hear that he is a bit better this morning.  Still sending you some good vibes for the rest of the day.  Hope he continues to improve.  Let us know how he is later and what the vet says the blood tests reveal.


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## Aces_High (13 September 2010)

Just had bloods back.... RBC and WBC high - normal as mounting an inflammatory response.  Proteins - normal, muscle enzymes - normal, kidneys - normal, electrolytes etc - normal, liver function nomal, one liver test - 49 (very slightly high but wouldn't worry unless in the 100's.) Rules out poisoning and few other thoughts we had.  More tests being run and EHV, EIA etc.


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## golden_revolution (13 September 2010)

Oh dear, I have everything crossed for you and your horse, there's noting worse than not being able to really help them is there 
Very worrying especially with the recent EIA outbreaks...please keep us all informed!


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## Maesfen (13 September 2010)

Sorry to hear about your boy and hope you can get some results which actually tell you what it is and how to treat too.  The good thing is he's still eating but I'd be very wary of pushing too much into him but I'm sure your vet is giving you all the advice they can.  Best of luck for a quick recovery.
BTW, not hard hearted at all, would definitely have done the same as you.


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## Miss-rose (13 September 2010)

Hope you get to the bottom of it soon sending (((((((((healing vibes & hugs))))))) your way


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## Equestrian92 (13 September 2010)

I wish you and your neddy all the luck in the world, big hugs and snugs xxxxx


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## Hoofprints in the Snow (13 September 2010)

Just read this, so sorry to hear your horse is so sick. Just a thought I don't think anyone else has suggested, could it be neourological.  (((((hugs))))  and hope that you get an answer soon.


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## Aces_High (13 September 2010)

Been thinking about the neurological route.  To be honest we won't be looking for anything until all the blood and swab results are back from the lab.  If there's nothing conclusive we will be looking at scanning his abdomen.  Heading off to give him lunch and electrolytes, needs to be a little more forthcoming with his drinking habits.  Should follow his mother on this one.....


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## lindsayH (13 September 2010)

Thinking of you and your boy, I really hope he feels better soon x


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## Changes (13 September 2010)

Have a read of this and see if it could be relevant. 

Huge get well vibes being sent to you.

http://www.epmhorse.org/


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## brighteyes (13 September 2010)

Except is it dependent on the opossum for contamination?


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## fatpiggy (13 September 2010)

Just had a sudden thought - how about Lyme's disease from ticks? It would certainly cause neurological problems and in humans produces flu-like symptoms.  Do you have sheep or deer nearby?


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## Aces_High (13 September 2010)

Lunch check (very kind Mother and my best friend have been checking him on the hour) and he's still wobbly.  Neighed at the top of his voice for lunch and then wolfed it down.  Strange he has such a huge appetite for his hard feed.  He is having a new batch of hay as he won't eat the hay he has (which is very good).  He's come back negative for the EHV PCR so that's good.  This terrible staggering is awful - wondering if it's more awful for me than it is for him?  Thank you Changed for your link, I've forwarded it on to vet but I think there are a few clinical signs which don't add up with my chap - will be investigated anyway.


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## Aces_High (13 September 2010)

We don't have any sheep or cows near my paddocks.  We do have wild deer but they don't generally come into the paddocks due to my fencing etc.  The cats haven't had any ticks this summer and we do not have much in the way of trees etc. (arable farmers!)


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## Changes (13 September 2010)

brighteyes said:



			Except is it dependent on the opossum for contamination?
		
Click to expand...

I looked into it ages ago for a friend who had a horse with symptoms that fitted EPM, and there have been cases in Yorkshire. It can also be transmitted by birds, and risen flood waters (are was a factor with my friends horse) frequently encourage seagulls, who are considered culprits. 

I've searched for the relevant pages as I can't remember all the info, but to no avail, hence why I just linked to a main page.


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## DiablosGold (13 September 2010)

Hundreds on vibes going your way - hope this all gets sorted soon, sounds awful xxx


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## millhouse (13 September 2010)

Just read this thread.  Good luck with your horse.


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## Maisie2 (13 September 2010)

Poor you.  Hope there is good news soon, keep strong and try not to spend all night awake worrying!!!!!  I know, easier said than done :-(   Thinking of you both.


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## MochaDun (13 September 2010)

Glad to hear he's eating well though shame he's not stabilising on the shaky legs front.  

I'm not that knowledgeable as I don't know what the symptoms are beyond flu type ones but what about Weils Disease?  Transmitted by rats via water.. Horses and humans can get it I think.  Someone at work I know sadly had to have their horse put down due to it a few years ago and the farmer at the livery where she kept it also went down with it at the same time but was OK.


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## Gingerwitch (13 September 2010)

Poor you - poor horse - good luck and keep us posted

GW


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## Holly Hocks (13 September 2010)

Just read this.  I hope your horse gets better soon.  Is it possible that he has digested something poisonous?  The symptoms suggest that something poisonous might have been eaten, or if not, then something viral.   Positive vibes going your way x


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## Aces_High (13 September 2010)

I am very on top of rat/mice control on the yard, I know it doesn't rule it out.  I have permenantly full bait boxes.  I do scrub their water troughs out every week in the paddocks and daily in the stables.  I also have 3 stable cats to help the problem.  We are thinking now that general poisoning from eating plants etc is out of the window due to all his liver results coming back as normal.  Going to get a hay and pasture analysis done to see what that comes back with.  Vet is back out in an hour and another night of hourly checks for me.


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## Changes (13 September 2010)

I really hope you get the bottom of this quickly, being in limbo about an illness is awful....


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## Rose Folly (13 September 2010)

Came on this very late in the day - can only send you and your horse all my best wishes. I could only come up with laurel, box or yew poisoning - but I think he'd be dead by now, or purpura haemorrogia (hope I've spelt that right). A childhood pony had it - and recovered. It's very rare and he did stagger a lot at the beginning. But it has very noticeable and horrible symptoms (leaking blood through the pores) and I'm sure you would have seen that by now. Please keep us all posted. And hope you're holding up all right yourself? It's the loneliest time when you have a sick child or animal.


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## brighteyes (13 September 2010)

Do they get ear infections like we do?  Sounds like he has the equine equivalent of Meniere's


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## Aces_High (13 September 2010)

Ears are clean and his neck/head movement is very good.  Eating his supper like a demon and tried to kick me.  If he wasn't staggering and wobbly you wouldn't think there was anything wrong with him.  Much brighter in his skin and eyes but membranes are very pale - again goes with anaemia and blood cell count.  Heart rate, temp and breathing rate still normal.  Heart rate is 40 everytime


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## CalllyH (13 September 2010)

fingers crossed for you and him hun - came on to here just to check he was ok


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## juliag (13 September 2010)

Big Big hugs to you. xxx


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## Echo Bravo (13 September 2010)

You haven't got any horsetail(mares tail) in your field have you, because that can cause vit b deficience and shaking


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## only_me (13 September 2010)

sorry to read this, hope he gets well soon  and hugs for you (())

Have you considered EIA? I belive that is the symptoms of it, virus type with anemia 

Also, could it be wobblers? not just normal wobblers, but equine wobbles anemia, which has symptoms of ataxia (implying dysfunction of parts of the nervous system), show weakness in the hindquarters, or may knuckle over in their fetlocks, particularly in the rear. With advanced stages of the disease they are prone to falling (wiki).

Just an idea, although i hope not 

vibes xx


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## Empy&Treacle (13 September 2010)

Aces_High, thinking of you.  Very best wishes being sent your way... I really the vets find out what it is and that your boy pulls through. Xx


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## Doris68 (13 September 2010)

Let's hope that tomorrow brings good news and a much improved boy!


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## TheCurlyPony (14 September 2010)

Morning K,


Any more news ?


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## dad_io (14 September 2010)

Hoping he better today and the vet finds something to treat

We had similar to this earlier this year with Dexter. The vet still thinks it was likely to be some form of poisoning. His bloods were all over the place and he went into 2nd stage liver failure then swelled up so much his skin split on his legs then his heart started to fail. He ended up on 132 tablets a day but we have slowly nursed him back and have just started to lightly work him in the field to see if his body can cope with a return to ridden work. If he cant cope then he will spend the winter with my clydie tripod in the field.A very stressful and trying time for all of us so we know what its like.


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## irish_only (14 September 2010)

More get well vibes from me. Keep reading this post to see how he is doing.
Lots of horsey hugs for him x x x


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## Gingerwitch (14 September 2010)

Hoping you have a better day today - and hoping they find out whats up with your horse today x


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## spookypony (14 September 2010)

More (((vibes))).


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## Aces_High (14 September 2010)

Thank you all again for your good wishes.  I can report last night was uneventful - thankfully.  I've changed his hay batch and he's eaten 3 slices over night plus all his hard feed and is drinking well.  This morning, more jabs and some coordination tests which he has passed.  EIA came back neg just waiting for the serum test results.  Running more bloods tomorrow to see if the current meds are making any change.  Poor lad is now a pin cushion but is being an amazing patient.  He is worse on the right hand side than the left.  I will tell you more about the hay shortly - just having to do a little work first.


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## Jojo_Pea4 (14 September 2010)

So sorry to hear, fingers crossed you find what wrong. Look after yourself. x


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## Dizzydancer (14 September 2010)

Glad last night was uneventful and he is drinking more now. Hopefully the vets will be able to find out what it is soon, or he just makes a miraculous recovery! 
(((vibes))) for the rest of today x


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## Aces_High (14 September 2010)

Changed the batch of hay yesterday - this is quite long so might take me a while.  Basically had a quad of wrapped hay (isn't haylage as Max colics on it) and is as dry as normal hay.  Max and Aces High (2 yr old) were eating it happily and then stopped.  Max is fussy with his hay so I kept on chucking it out and giving him new to eat but he'd only pick at it.  Aces High who's a complete piglet hasn't eaten any hay since Friday.  I thought maybe there was a little more grass coming through in her bare paddock and she's been feasting on the very good barley straw in her field shelter.  Anyway been researching EVERY disease known to mankind in horses that gives them ataxia symptoms.  I removed all of their hay yesterday and gave them the new stuff.  Max ate 3 sections last night as did A-H.  A-H is fine in herself maybe a little quiet but nothing untoward.  Max seems slightly better this morning but is more pronounced in his staggering movement on the right hand side than his left.  He also has full flexion through his neck and can get a polo from both his left and right shoulders and to his chest and to the floor.  He is crossing his hind legs correctly when being turned on himself.  He will also put his feet back in the correct position when you put on hoof on the other.  I now have scientists on board at the moment as well to look at investigating hay/pasture so will see what comes from that.  I am struggling with all the waiting and would like answers now as well as some sleep.  Just want my horse back to his old self.


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## Ted's mum (14 September 2010)

could it be wobblers? hope he is getting better....positive vibes coming your way. x


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## irish_only (14 September 2010)

You haven't got lots of red clover have you? High in arsenic I think.


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## Aces_High (14 September 2010)

No we haven't any red clover in the paddocks or in the hay.  Him being a "wobbler" has been ruled out as well.  He was bright at lunch time but still hyper sensitive.  I took him for a little walk in the paddock for a pick of grass where he felt like he wanted to take off.  It turned into a short pick of grass!  He's still eating and drinking well.  Nothing else has come to light at this stage.  I think we can HOPEFULLY be slightly more conclusive if there is improvement in his haematology and biochemistry reports from the blood we'll draw in the morning.  Just good to know if the current meds he is on are helping him.


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## fatpiggy (14 September 2010)

Your description of good limb awareness but still staggering suggests to me that neurologically he is fine, but the staggering could be a muscular problem, as though they aren't strong enough to give him control. I have a problem with my neck at the moment, with a bone spur on my spine irritating the nerves down my left side. The early symptoms were huge cramps and loss of muscle control in the fingers of my left hand. It was as if the muscles were exhausted very quickly and I couldn't wiggle them as fast as usual, or as long.


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## Aces_High (14 September 2010)

FP - we've decided it's not neurological as you suggested he isn't showing the clinical signs for that.  I will mention to my vet this evening about what you've said above.  Just so frustrating not having any answers at this point but I guess it's still very early days.  20 mins left at my desk then off to see the patient for more glimmers of light.....


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## jojo5 (14 September 2010)

Have been reading all posts and thinking of you. Not sure if your neurological conclusions rule this out but have you considered stroke?  My first mare had an initial stroke and then a series of small ones similar to transient ischaemia. She certainly had balance problems, was still eating at first, but did become more vague (due to continuing strokes as above). So some symptoms like your boy but not all. Just a thought as I guess any suggestion may be of use. Hoping for good news for you.


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## Boxers (14 September 2010)

Glad to hear he is improving in some ways and that the new batch of hay is getting eaten.  Obviously something awry with the last lot if your other horse wasn't eating it either.  

Hope he continues to improve and that you and your vet can get to the bottom of this.


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## suzi (14 September 2010)

Sounds like a nightmare and not sure I have any other suggestions to add.

How's he doing this evening?

Keeping everything crossed for you.


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## Louby (14 September 2010)

Glad to hear theres some improvement and fingers crossed for him to continue improving.
Just wanted to add this, we bought half a barn load of hay between me and my friend from a someone local.  My horse had an allergic reaction, as in lumps all over and red hot to touch, never thought it could be hay so on vets advice we stripped her of rugs, washed in hibiscrub, she was fully clipped and it was minus degrees, no improvement over a few days so I thought what I had changed and the hay was the only thing.  I stopped it and the lumps went, friends horse was fine, so a bit unconvinced, gave her some more and the reaction came back.
I know this is nothing compared to what your poor horse is going through but maybe it is something in the hay, seeing though they both dont like it??


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## LoNatalie (14 September 2010)

just read this post.. huge vibes to you, i really really hope you find out what it was and he improves ASAP!


big vibes....... xxxx


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## irish_only (15 September 2010)

Oh dear, you#ve definitely got us all thinkling of you both. Went to bed last night thinking about the symptoms and had a light bulb moment, which I hope for you is wrong.
A number of years ago I found a yearling down in the field, unable to get up. Eventually with some medication she managed to stand up but was very wobbly and unco-ordinated. After a trip to RVC for wobbler x-ray which was negative, conclusion was she had an aneurism. She's still with us as a 7yo, gait has improved a lot but not that you could contemplate riding. 
Really hope this is not what has happened in your case.

Also, do you think the hay problem and the wobbly problem could be un-related, and just an unfortunate coincidence which has clouded diagnosis.


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## Mike007 (15 September 2010)

Has a middle ear infection been ruled out. Ear infections can certainly affect ballance and coordination. I am a bit sceptical about the hay theory.Could she have been eating any fungi in the field. It is the right time of year and weather. Hope she is better soon.


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## Gingerwitch (15 September 2010)

How is the paitent this morn? - have you wormed at all in the last week or so?.... just had read about some horses having a reaction to a wormer not long ago?

What about spraying near by and with the winds we have been having is it possible he could have drank from contaminated waters (thats is another avenue possibly have you any running water on or around you or any broken sewers - very often these are laid accross fields and sometimes the pipes fracture - i know been at a yard this happend on - and it was horrid) or have had wind blown spray on him? - also apparantly we have a horse on my yard that was allergic to a batch of straw....10 days at liverpool and they nearly lost him - but fine now but just hyper sensative to loads of things


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## Aces_High (15 September 2010)

Morning all, 

Max seems to be turning a corner which is wonderful but we are certainly not out of the woods yet.  His gait has improved and he's now able to follow the same tracks.  He is still exaggerating his gait more on the off side. He is still eating and all his general signs are normal.  We have drawn more bloods off him this morning so I should have his results within the hour.  I spoke to my farm manager and nothing has been sprayed around us recently so we've ruled that one out.  Everything is just so inconclusive which is frustrating.  We've had the top specialists in Europe looking at his case and still stumped.  Just hope that his inflammatory response which was high on his last bloods is down today due to the antibiotics etc which he has been on.  He's also going onto Mycosorb Equine Formula today (worth Googling if your interested in mycotoxins etc) and continuing with the current management.  Might just turn out to be one of those unexplained things.  Need him to continue in a positive way......  We've ruled out ear infections and he's not showing clinical signs of an aneurysm.  We haven't ruled out toxins within the hay as yet.  I know his bloods didn't read with that but he's an A-Typical horse which about says it all!!  Thanks again to everyone for all of your support.


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## Chellebean (15 September 2010)

Glad he is showing signs of improvement


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## Daffodil (15 September 2010)

Haven't posted before but have followed your poor boy's case.   So glad he's maintaining progress and all fingers and toes crossed for him.  xx


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## Old Bat (15 September 2010)

Wow, they do know how to stump us, don't they? I'm so glad he is improving, he's obviously in the right place with you. Can you trace the origin of the batch of hay to see if it received any unusual chemicals? And as Mike says, we have a load of odd fungus sprouting around us at the moment...could he have eaten something like that?


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## Dizzydancer (15 September 2010)

So glad he is improving even if it is slowly. Fingers crossed for good blood results.
Keep us updated and ((((hugs)))) to both you and Max


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## Aces_High (15 September 2010)

He's been on really good grazing and stabled at night and I haven't seen any fungi (I do pick up the droppings twice a day) and I am very vigilant.  Also his bloods don't read right to a toxin such as a fungus.  Very strange.  I have seen some fungi on the muck heap but he doesn't have access to this.  I just hope that the corner we've turned continues.  Has made me question why I have horses but then what would I do without them!!  I'm heading out of the country early next month for a few months for a sabbatical so want him to be as close to 100% as possible or I'll never be able to enjoy my trip.


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## fatpiggy (15 September 2010)

Another symptom I have with my irritated nerves is I feel sort of edgy all the time. Imagine you know you are going to sneeze any minute, but it never quite happens - that feeling! Apparently the nerves are being hyperstimulated.  Do you think he is in any pain? I'm not hurting but it is a horrible feeling and it is 24/6     I can't help but think this is a virus which is doing something odd to the nerve endings - ever had Shingles?  Virus' are weird things and can appear out of nowhere. A friend of mine had a veteran pony which died of the horse equivalent of AIDS. No other horses were affected.


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## irish_only (15 September 2010)

So glad he looks like he is improving. Fingers crossed. x


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## Aces_High (15 September 2010)

Hi FP - he is hypersensitive but he's not in pain.  He's on a lot of pain relief IV twice a day.  I walked into his stable this morning and he flew (sort of) to the back of his box.  His eyes etc are all good so it's not sight related.  Like you've mentioned he has trembling in his neck, head and muzzle.  They do seem to be SLOWLY subsiding unless I am getting used to them.  I will post his blood reports and progress after lunch as off to see him.  I hope you've all taken out shares in Polo's prior to Sunday as I'm going through a lot - I will tell you before I stop buying so you can quickly sell them!


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## Aces_High (15 September 2010)

Max seemed much perkier at lunchtime.  He'd eaten all his hay and has been drinking his water.  He's also had a LAY DOWN and managed to get up which I am thrilled about.  Took him out for a pick of grass.  The look in his face is I want to go and charge off to speak to my pals.  Unfortunately at this stage it's not allowed as he's a bit of a liablity to himself.  He seems to bring in his mind but his legs are not following through yet.  I am slightly concerned that if I was to let him have a pick on his own he'd charge off and might just end up stuck against the fence.  Depending on his progress and the weather over the next few days I will let him have supervised half hours in a nursery paddock.  His lunch has now been cut out as he's been eating very well and I don't want him to get too fat and he also has his strength back enough to hoist his weight up from lying down.  His WBC and RBC count are at the lower end of normal but improvement on Sunday's bloods.  His Bio-Chem is now reading normal having been hugely inflated due to the the viral or allergic reaction he has.  I still want to see marked improvement as he's still staggery in walk and once this has been seen I will think about a sigh of relief.  He did have a "goat" moment about going back into his house.  All these things have to be good signs.


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## lachlanandmarcus (15 September 2010)

it may be that he will get better and you will never know what it was, my chap had a long running virus but it was recurring like ME, it didnt go away for several years completely, RVC were mystified by it.

Hes now rising 18 and fat and shiny


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## oscarwild (15 September 2010)

Aww thats good news that he seems to be getting slightly better and no worse.
I wonder if he will get better and you will never find a cause to the problem.  I had that will my boy earlier on in the year.  Altho the symptoms etc were much different we still dont know what caused my Oscar to be ill but he made a good recovery.  He too had bloods done for weeks that came back with slight variations etc but never anything significant to cause the issues that we had.  We reckon it was a viral infection and it took him months to fight it and had other issues at the time too which didnt help.


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## Maisy (15 September 2010)

I am very glad that Max is showing signs of improvement.....I wonder how long it will be before you get a good night's sleep! ......I often wonder why we have horses!!!  So much heartache and worry!

Fingers crossed he continues to pick up over the next few days!


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## Funkymunk (15 September 2010)

Maybe Ulcers! I had a horse that had similar symptoms and was riddled with them.


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## Aces_High (16 September 2010)

We seem to have gone around another corner and his progress is continuing to improve.  The edema under his tummy has dispersed and the one on his jaw is slowly changing shape and moving.  Temp, heart rate etc all good again and he seems to be reacting well to the antibiotics.  He's been double dosed with his drugs from Sunday and as of today he's going on to normal dose, so fingers and toes crossed he continues on the up.  We are running some more bloods tomorrow in the hope that his white and red blood cells are properly in the normal range and that his fibrinogen levels are stabilising.  Other than that nothing else to report.  Aces High is feeling very unloved at the moment as Max is getting all the attention.  Maisy - I have been questioning that very question re having horses and when I'll get some sleep!!  I went off quickly last night, only one check but then my pussy cat decided biting my toes and charging around my bedroom was a great idea.....


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## Aces_High (16 September 2010)

Has anyone here had a horse who's been very staggery?  If so how long approx does it take for them to regain their normal gait?  Just wanting to hear a bit of feedback on it.  Took him for a quick pick at lunchtime and he was fine and then had a big wobble.  Doesn't concern me as much now having spent 5 days (feels like 14+) but the person I was chattering too was very concerned.  Going to give him a good groom this evening and I even felt confident enough in his balance to pick his feet out.


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## Boxers (16 September 2010)

Glad to hear that there is some improvement.

Keep letting us know of his progress - is he the coloured in your siggy?


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## Aces_High (16 September 2010)

boxers said:



			Glad to hear that there is some improvement.

Keep letting us know of his progress - is he the coloured in your siggy?
		
Click to expand...

He's my TB I have a couple of pics of him on my profile (Here Comes Trouble is his correct name).  The splodge one is my 2 yr old filly.  Will be interesting to see how his bloods read tomorrow.  Think it could be a long slow process before his gait returns to normal.  Will keep an update on a less regular basis once the reports are back tomorrow


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## Boxers (16 September 2010)

Just had a look - he's a very handsome boy - hope he recovers soon.


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## PippiPony (16 September 2010)

Just caught up with this.  Hope the improvements continue
x


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## MrsMozart (16 September 2010)

Have been thinking about you both. Fingers crossed he continues to improve


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## jhoward (16 September 2010)

fingers crossed that you get some answers about the cause, hang in there and im sure it will all come right. xx


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## minime (16 September 2010)

I have just read all and I am very sorry that you are going through such a rough time. I understand how you feel as one of my beloved mini's had a really bad colic last month and ended up in hosp. she had two ops and stayed in for a few weeks, it was real hell. The vet phoned me more than once telling me he didn't think she would make it through the night. Now she is back home and doing great. she kicks up a real stink daily as she is confined to her stable. she looks out of her window and screams all day at her friends who are outside playing.
good luck, lets hope that it will shortly be just a bad memory.
vibes coming your way---------------------


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## Aces_High (18 September 2010)

Morning All,
Max seems to be in great form.  He's out in a nursery paddock at the moment (very hairy to start as he went ballistic) picking grass and seems very happy.  I believe we are over the worst now.  His bloods came back good yesterday he's still reading high on his Eos and this indicates an allergy or similar and his fibrinogen is still slightly high.  We will take some more bloods off him next week to makes sure his progress is continuing.  He's off the IV antibiotics and pain relief and now on Trimed paste for 5 days.  He was assess again today and his balance and coordination will be monitored for the next couple of months.  His action is now like a normal horse but he is still weak.  He should start strengthening up over the coming weeks and months.  I won't be looking at riding him until mid Dec all being well.  Many Thanks again for all your posts, vibes and good wishes. xxx


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## Pearlsasinger (18 September 2010)

It's great to hear your good news!


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## Vodkagirly (18 September 2010)

Glad to hear that he is recovering


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## Doris68 (18 September 2010)

Good news!  Really pleased for you both.


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## MrsMozart (18 September 2010)

Oh so pleased!! I was hesitant about checking on how he was doing, but so pleased I looked in  

Very pleased for you hun. December will come (it's when I get back on as well (I think!)). 

A large hot choccy with all the trimmings


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## minime (18 September 2010)

Wonderful knews, I am so glad for you both. Hugs and vibes------


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## spookypony (18 September 2010)

EXCELLENT news!


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## Aces_High (18 September 2010)

The great news hasn't lasted long.  He's taken a turn for the worse this evening - vets back out.  Ultrasounded his abdomen and nothing too suspect there, other than something slightly amiss with his small intestine.  Took a stomach tap from that area - looks normal but will see what the analysis comes back with.  He's stablised from the drugs again and seems comfortable now.  Back to the drawing board.....  Only things that have changed in his management since last Sunday are him going onto Trimed today and having some grazing.  Going to get the soil analysed - just need an idea of what we're looking for, for when the sample is sent off.  I feel we've caught him earlier than on Sunday as he hadn't gone ataxic.  His legs are HUGE and filled well into his second thigh and forearms.


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## Leaf (18 September 2010)

hi, that is pants news sorry to read he has gone down hill, how are you holding up? on the soil testing what do you think about metal toxicosis found this article about it 
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11780284  I may be way off just racking my brains really.


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## Shilasdair (18 September 2010)

I sympathise - if you read my thread you will see I am having issues with my own ill horse.
Could yours be similar - an allergy (mine is thought to be allergic to grass)?  Sometimes, when her allergy flares up, she gets fluid on her legs, under her belly, a giveaway being fluid in her lower eyelids.
Wishing you luck with him.
S


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## ELFSBELLS (18 September 2010)

Oh dear, just seen this, sending loads of good luck vibes your way. (((hugs)))


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## tractor (18 September 2010)

Really sorry if this has already been mentioned, but I've been at work all day and just catching up

Do you have a water course in your field? I only ask as our stallion was blown up like a balloon for a few days last month, we thought we were going to lose him, vet gave him anti inflammatories which worked, swelling went down, was worse the next day - same cycle three times, after the third time the vet said it was either liver or kidney failure, his hours were numbered, one more jab and that was his last chance  - moved him to a different field and he has been fine since. 

we are on a brook which leads from the local reservoir, and his illness was attributed to something in the water for a few days. 

If this isn't a possibilty, then I really hope he recovers, positive vibes coming your way xxx


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## MochaDun (18 September 2010)

I'm sorry you've gone from highs to lows again - hope he stabilises quickly...dread to think if it is your soil/grass what has either run through your paddock via water or got there via some other means.  All fingers crossed again.


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## Janah (19 September 2010)

How is your horse today?  Thinking of you.

Jane


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## misst (19 September 2010)

Very sorry to read he has turned for the worst again. No helpful suggestions but hoping things pick up very soon for you x


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## Meandtheboys (19 September 2010)

Aces_High said:



			The great news hasn't lasted long.  He's taken a turn for the worse this evening - vets back out.  Ultrasounded his abdomen and nothing too suspect there, other than something slightly amiss with his small intestine.  Took a stomach tap from that area - looks normal but will see what the analysis comes back with.  He's stablised from the drugs again and seems comfortable now.  Back to the drawing board.....  Only things that have changed in his management since last Sunday are him going onto Trimed today and having some grazing.  Going to get the soil analysed - just need an idea of what we're looking for, for when the sample is sent off.  I feel we've caught him earlier than on Sunday as he hadn't gone ataxic.  His legs are HUGE and filled well into his second thigh and forearms.
		
Click to expand...

Just wondered how he was today....................


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## MochaDun (19 September 2010)

I'm praying no news is good news..


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## Daffodil (20 September 2010)

Any news on your boy?


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## LoNatalie (20 September 2010)

MochaDun said:



			I'm praying no news is good news..
		
Click to expand...


Im thinking the same. Fingers crossed.

more vibes coming your way... xx


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## Aces_High (20 September 2010)

Sorry for the late update.  Still no news to report - waiting for more test results to come back today.  Max has stabilized and is back to how he was last Tues/Wed. Will post a longer update in an hour or so - got to do some work first.  Many thanks again for all the good wishes.  I will look at the threads from the person who's having the same problem as me and the link which has been left for me to look at.  Turbulent time to say the least but at least he appears to be on the mend again.


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## Vetwrap (20 September 2010)

Fingers crossed for you and Max.  You both sound like fighters...


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## Spottyappy (20 September 2010)

I maybe clutching at straws here, but had the weather where ever you are changed suddenly? 
We had months of dry and no rain, and then suddenly 24 hours solid of rain. That is enough to affect one of mine, due we suspect to the sudden change in proteins and /or sugar/carb levels in the grass. He gets the runs,(like water) and fills up mostly in  sheath and face areas, severely everytime this weather pattern happens- unless we can pull him off the grass in time before it changes.
He has to have just hay,no hard feed, for weeks on end at times to keep him ok, and stay off grass. Even now some 6/7 weeks after that bout of rain, he is not able to go out 24/7 as he usually would because the grass still irratates him if out too long. Having been dry again since that particular downpour, he would have to be stabled 24/7 should it rain heavily again or it will set the pattern off again.
We have no proof of what triggers this reaction, just our own belief that somethig changes very quickly in our pasture with this particular weather pattern that affects him,and luckily no others.
I hope you can get yours well again, but it maybe woirth removing grass altogether for the time being if there is a tenuous link


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## Aces_High (20 September 2010)

I still haven't had his results back but hopefully not too much longer....  I don't have any running water near the paddocks and there is only a ditch along side one paddock which again they cannot get into.  I think it was Tractor who posted about water - sorry to hear about your stallion but great he's on the mend.  Shilasdair - I have read your posts and what a nightmare.  I will post on it shortly - really was awful to read.  I really hope my horse hasn't developed an allergy like yours but he was getting large welds on his quarters but I am sure these are due to the fly bites he had 2 weeks ago.  They did come up again though on Saturday....  The edema on his tummy came back as well but this morning it had again shifting forward and was dispersing.  The one under his jaw is still pretty much the same and looks slightly bigger if anything. SpottyAppy - The weather here has been pretty consistant and Max is out during the day and in at night and hasn't had any changes in routine.  He hasn't had any problems with the runs but did have a swollen face last Sunday one day 1 of being sick.  What type of soil are you on?  Max hasn't been turned out or allowed a pick of grass since Saturday evening.  He's on twice daily lead outs and cold hosing 20 mins each leg as his legs are huge.  They do seem to be coming down from being lead out and bridle is a must as he's being a sod!  Honestly on Saturday he just crumbled in front of my eyes, it was awful.  Will post his latest results as soon as I've heard from the vets and also the outcome of the ultrasound this evening. xxx


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## LauraWheeler (20 September 2010)

I do hope you have some answers soon. It's horrid not knowing whats wrong.  Still sending lots of (((((((((((vibes))))))))) for max and ((((((((((hugs))))))))) to you.


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## minime (20 September 2010)

I am crossing my fingers for you both. hugs.xxx


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## Spottyappy (20 September 2010)

Our soil is heavy clay. 
The horse I have had the issue with has been on clay at least 17 years, but only developed the problem about 12 years ago, when the weather was same as this summer- dry for months on end then abruptly ended with torrential downpours. 
We are also now, in last 2 weeks, experiencing heavy dews in the mornings, combined with mild weather and grass still growing, and even this can spark an episode of the runs.
When it flares up- unexpectedly nowadays but initially because we didn;t realise why- it can take several months to things back to normal.
I really hope you get some answers soon.
Thinking of you.


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## oscarwild (20 September 2010)

Aww sorry to hear your still having issues and I really hope that your results come back soon and give you a idea of whats going on.

Healing vibes coming your way. *HUGS* for your boy


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## Aces_High (21 September 2010)

Morning, Max still has the vets stumped.  His bloods from Saturday came back with high inflammatories (expected) and I couldn't hear the rest as the phone signal kept breaking up.  I am having them emailed across today.  He is still really weak and when we tail pull him when he's walking he is showing a lot of weakness.  The scan last night showed that his spleen was larger than it was on Saturday, this could just be due to it working extra hard producing more Red Blood Cells.  His lungs looked good with just a little bit of tagging which you'd expect from an older horse, there wasn't any fluid in them.  His kidneys looked really good and we got a great picture of the one on his near side.  The piece of small intestine which was odd appeared to be functioning as it should but still looks abnormal.  Again this has taken the vets by surprise and we seem to be learning that Max is a medical mystery if nothing else.  His top line has really dropped away and he's being a bit of an old goat to lead out (not uncommon!).  Seems to be all or nothing.  He was a little quieter this morning and I wonder if he's just getting a little down in the dumps.  Spottyappy - we are on very light land and the grass is coming back on the rested paddocks.  I am going to get my farm manager to run a soil analysis for me but I need to know what we are testing for first - makes it slightly more tricky!  Thank you all again for the vibes.


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## jhoward (21 September 2010)

big hugs to you, and i really hope you start to get some answers, I cant imagine how fustrating this is for you and your lad. 

have your fields ever been ferterlised? or weed killer any where near where a horse could of been? and what about you water source? lead posioning although unlikely can poduce the symptons of you boy. could well be worth getting that tested too if you havnt already. 

best of luck and I think I can safley say we all have ou fingers and legs crossed for you.


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## anthony79 (21 September 2010)

Have read all the postings on this mystery.  Suggestion : probably already checked but years ago I nearly lost some goats & a horse from nitrogen poisoning.  Caused by rain on a  farmers field  2 miles away washing the nitrogen down river and again the stock had no direct access to running water.   All the stock had to have massive doses of Vitamin B complexes over quite a long period.    All recovered but unsteady gait and quite a lot of  your were present.


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## Happy Horse (21 September 2010)

I don't know where you are but Andy Durham at Liphook is a legend at uncovering medical mysteries.  It may be worth your vet having a chat with him to see if they can come up with any new ideas.

http://www.liphookequinehosp.co.uk/staffdetails.php?id=7


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## LauraWheeler (21 September 2010)

Happy Horse said:



			I don't know where you are but Andy Durham at Liphook is a legend at uncovering medical mysteries.  It may be worth your vet having a chat with him to see if they can come up with any new ideas.

http://www.liphookequinehosp.co.uk/staffdetails.php?id=7

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Agree whole hartedly. Andy Durham is amazing. Lucy went to him when no one could workout what was wrong with her. He was amazing. So kind and understanding and I finaly got a diagnosis. He also kept intouch with my vets after and advised them on how to try to treat Lucy.
I'll never forget The night he rang to tell me the diagnosis, he was amazing. He explained it all to me in a way that I understood and listened to me cry down the phone for ages. I honestly can't praise him enough.


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## Aces_High (21 September 2010)

Hi Guys,  Thanks again for all the suggestions.  I am going to speak to the vets about nitrogen poisoning as I do nitrogen my paddocks.  We farm so all the fields around are also sprayed with nitrogen.  I am going to get on to the farm manager about soil analysis so we can try and crack this mystery.  I am very fortunate and use Rossdales as my vets - I have a large team of some of the best vets in UK and Europe on the case, including specialists in internal medicine.  I have used them for over 25 years and have a super rapport professionally as well as socially with "my" vet (strange how I refer to him as mine - think it's a Rossdales thing!!) I think I forgot to mention he's going on to preds at the end of this week and I am doing his morning jabs as we haven't ruled out the Trimed from causing Saturday's turn of events.  I am certainly open to all suggestions as we are wanting some answers so please keep them coming.  I am about to Google Nitrogen poisoning in horses now


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## Happy Horse (21 September 2010)

I didn't know you were with Rossdales.  I am sure they have all the exerience, Andy would be a good option if you were witha smaller unspecialised practice.  It must be so frustrating, I hopeyou have an answer soon.


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## anthony79 (21 September 2010)

I too have Googles Nitrogen poisoning in horses and it does suggest that this would be a avenue to check.  Various articles particularly implicate forage grown on ground that had been previously heavily fertilsed with Notrigen.  Which brings into mind the hay that you had used right up to Max being taken ill.


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## Aces_High (21 September 2010)

Hi Happy Horse - I really hope my post didn't come across defensive!  Certainly wasn't meant like that at all and I greatly appreciate that you didn't realise which vets I was with.  I have done some Nitrogen Googling and there are a couple of things which don't lay up with him in that his RBC count has been on the improve since Sunday 12th and even on the 20th when he had another attack came back fine.  When horses have nitrogen poisoning it affects the production of RBC's.  Also he hasn't had diarrhoea which appears to be common with Nitrogen poisoning.  I've passed it on to the vets and will be seeing them this evening so will let you know if that's an avenue to follow.  Many Thanks again for all your posts and thoughts on what could be wrong with him.  Please keep ideas and (much needed) vibes coming - someone out there must have experienced something like this before.


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## Faro (21 September 2010)

Kind of been following this over the last few days.  I have nothing I can offer to help I'm afraid, but just wanted to say that I'm keeping my fingers crossed for the very best outcome for you.


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## SVMel (21 September 2010)

Gosh, I know this is very difficult for you, and was hoping for more good news from you by now, although things sound better than they were.
Still keeping everything crossed for you, keep us updated xxxxxx


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## Janah (21 September 2010)

Bump


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## Doris68 (21 September 2010)

Oh no A_H, I'm really sorry to hear about the relapse.  You can't get better than Rossdales to find out the source of the problem - hooves crossed for you.  Hope there will bea permanent solution for you very soon.


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## Aces_High (21 September 2010)

Thank you guys.  He was a little sparkier this evening and proceeded to stamp on my mobile phone so I have lost all my contacts.  (I did swear and then thought better of it due to the last 9 days of hell).  I swear he's determinded for me to have my sabbatical as he's spending all my funds rapidly.  Oh phone isn't insured either!  Not terribly helpful when vet is on way out!!  I agree Rossdales are the best and I couldn't wish for him to be in better hands.


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## micramadam (21 September 2010)

Just caught up with this and I hope you get to the bottom of things soon.
Also have a poorly horse who just had an op today so \can empathise with you.
Sending lots of healing and positive vibes your way((((())))).


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## Aces_High (21 September 2010)

micramadam said:



			Just caught up with this and I hope you get to the bottom of things soon.
Also have a poorly horse who just had an op today so \can empathise with you.
Sending lots of healing and positive vibes your way((((())))).
		
Click to expand...

Sorry to hear about your horse.  I hope he/she comes out fine for you.  We are trying everything to get to the bottom of Max's illness but nothing is firing up.  Vet this evening is highly confident that he won't die (huge relief) and will be here stronger and bolshier than ever when I return from my trip.  I am on the line of changing my flights at the moment.  He needs to turn a sharp corner and get stronger and better rapidly for me to fly at the moment.  Lots of positive vibes to you too


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## Aces_High (22 September 2010)

Max seemed perkier this morning, must have been sheer delight of breaking my phone!  I am desperatly wanting to get him turned out to enjoy the last of the English sunshine before winter sets in.  I was thinking of bucket muzzling him so he can't eat but can have a potter around.  He still needs to get stronger and he's finding his walks a little tiring.  Anyone who's had a badly ataxic horse, how long did it take for them to regain their strength?


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## oscarwild (22 September 2010)

Sorry can't help with your question but I do hope Max continues his improvement and you get on your trip.  You'll be in need of it once this is all over.
I too can  sympathise with you on the not being able to find out whats wrong.  I had issues with my boy for last 3 months.  So far all I have is inflammation in his guts which steroid tablets control.  But every time we drop the dose he falls ill.  I'm on the would a allergy test be a good idea or a investigation op.  So hoping he stays stable and wont need either.

Fingers crossed that he makes a good recovery and you get away.


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## Aces_High (23 September 2010)

Afternoon all.  Max is now on the Cobactan once a day (from today) and the Finadine has been stopped.  He's having his walks increased and vets wanted him to start turnout today.  I did say I'd rather wait until Saturday - I am not at work then so can monitor him more closely.  So hopefully still on the Cobactan and having some turnout will work.  I think trying the one thing at a time approach might just be the key. Need huge fingers crossed......


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## oscarwild (26 September 2010)

How is Max doing?  Hope you've had a good couple of days and that he is continuing to improve 

Hope he's feeling better and your getting some sleep now.


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## Aces_High (27 September 2010)

Hi all, Max seems to be on the improve - started turn out for 3 one hour sessions on Saturday.  I didn't think he looked very good out in the paddock yesterday evening - he seems a little stumbley and not moving very well.  I've put this down to the fact that he's so weak and should hopefully strengthen up in the upcoming months.  Did a trot up and got him turning on himself for the vet.  When I tried to get him into trot he set off squealing and bucking - we can rule letargy out at the min!!  He's still on the Cobactan and will be going on to Baytril (oral) at the end of the week.  We are not going back to the Trimed after last Saturday's occurrance.  We are drawing some more bloods on Wednesday so will see what they show us.  It's a pain having to be at work as it makes his 3 one hour paddock shifts impossible.


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## LauraWheeler (27 September 2010)

Glad to hear he's showing some signs of improvment and I hope he continues to improve from now on. 
I was wondering how he was doing earlyer so thankyou for the update.


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## welsh horse rider (27 September 2010)

sending lots of healing vibes to your horse hun ((((hugs to you)))) xx


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## MrsMozart (27 September 2010)

Good to hear he's doing well


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## cumbriamax (27 September 2010)

so pleased to hear of his improvement.


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## lachlanandmarcus (27 September 2010)

am keeping everything crossed for him. It is sounding positive, which is really good!


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## minime (27 September 2010)

lachlanandmarcus said:



			am keeping everything crossed for him. It is sounding positive, which is really good!
		
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ditto-


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## Aces_High (29 September 2010)

Bloods pulled last night so will see what they say today.  Vet isn't convinced he looks any better.  More muscle has gone from his quarters and shoulders and he is looking more ribby.  His muscle along his neck though hasn't dropped like his quarters and back.  His gait hasn't improved and if anything has deterioriated.  Like vet said he doesn't look poor enough to be as weak as he is.  He has been walking backwards fine and then last night was dragging his hind toes.  Walking on the straight he's got a bizarre off hind action which isn't consistant with his near hind - his leg is almost bowing out when he walks.  I have a fab friend who's bringing him in at 11am so he is getting 4 hours out today and maybe with more walking he'll strengthen up.  It's all too much of a guessing game for me - in need of answers


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## TheCurlyPony (29 September 2010)

Sorry you have no more positive news. Thorts with you, keep me updated.


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## MANDM (29 September 2010)

So Sorry to hear about your boy I have been watching your posts with interest.
Not wanting to be the grim reaper and I know a lot of illnesses can give the same symptoms
however I had a horse that had suspected Botulism and was shipped up to Bristol where he eventually recovered and came home.
His symptoms were similiar to your boy.
At the same time or at least close to another 2 horses were ill in the area around us.
We all did research and could not come up with any reasons for the ilnesses.
We all live on the edge of Dartmoor and checked our feeds etc etc etc .
Sadly one horse had to be euthanised almost immediatly the other recovered with seemingly now no ill effects as still lives locally (was some 8 or so years ago) 
My boy came home and eventually seemed to strengthen up so some 18mths later I had shoes put on him with a view to ride him ..however I did not even get on his back as he had another sudden attack and was in terrible state so I had him put to sleep and he is now buried in my woodland.
The Vets said they suspected Botulism however I was led to believe that the only way to confirm was via a post mortem.
I hope your boy is soon diagnosed and hopefully on his recovery road


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## Spottyappy (29 September 2010)

Sorry to hear your boy isn't making as much progress as you wanted, I keep looking at your posts and hoping you have turned the corner.
Fingers crossed you get the answers fast. Has your vet spoken to any of the vet hospitals to see if they have any suggestions?
Thinking of you.


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## Tinseltoes (29 September 2010)

Hope he will be ok.


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## oscarwild (29 September 2010)

Sorry to hear you have no more positive news on Max.  I hope you have a improvement on your blood results and that your boy gets stronger the more he gets out.

Fingers crossed you'll get answers soon.  *Hugs* for you and your boy.


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## Aces_High (30 September 2010)

Spotty Appy - I use Rossdales as my vets so he's in best possible hands.  They've had a large team investigating him.  I got his results and his Fibrinogen levels are still elevated....  He had two 3 hour sessions in the paddock yesterday and his legs were up this morning.  He's still on Cobactan IM which I do but I wonder if we should maybe look at some Fenadine again to get these legs down.  I still think there is something lurking there.  I've thrown him out this morning and his legs do go down after about 30 mins of walking around. MandM - how awful for you and to take a turn for the worst after 18 months, doesn't bear thinking about.


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## jojo5 (30 September 2010)

Have followed your story with interest and sympathy. Some while back I did ask about the possibility of stroke in Max?  Don't know enough to know if his bloods etc match this but the mobility issues could reflect something like transient ischaemia. My first mare suffered a fairly major stroke, then a series of smaller ones ( hence the 'transient'). As in people, this affected all sorts of things - her sense of taste, direction, balance, recognition etc.  I guess however this would not explain the inflammatory issues unless these are secondary. Wish I could do more to help.


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## Aces_High (1 October 2010)

Hi JoJo5 - a stroke has been ruled out as he doesn't appear to be neurologically ill.  To be fair his balance is ok as is his recognition.  If you saw him out in the field or in his stable rugged, you'd think he was a normal horse.  When you strip him and then do any tests with him you then see that he's very obviously not normal.  I am now convinced it is viral.  Top vet was out yesterday (back from IRE) and he doesn't think there's too much more we can do.  He's now on oral Baytril for 10 days and then we'll decide if to take him off or keep him on for longer.  He's now being turned out for 8 hours a day.  I am hoping that this might strengthen him up, walking around and doing what horses do.  On the tail pull he's still weak and you could pull him over when you pull to the left.  He's a lot stronger on the right.  He wasn't too good turning on himself yesterday and going back he's now dragging his toe.  I don't think there is any chance of him being roughed off and living in the field whilst I am away.


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## jhoward (1 October 2010)

how fustrating for you and your horse, I keep hoping that your going to post with an outucome. It must be such an awful time for you, at least he seems to of stabilised and not taking turns for the worse. 

fingers crossed for the both you


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## brighteyes (1 October 2010)

Are you thinking meningial?  It does sound like his nervous system has come under attack.


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## Dizzydancer (5 October 2010)

Hi dont know if this has already been tested but just been watching a vet program on animal planet (i think) and there was a horse with very similar symptoms but also blindness it turned out after lots of negative blood tests that one finally came back showing he had been poisoned by ammonia from his own stomach, its supposed to be extremely rare which is why very rarely tested for but just thought may bne another thing to test if not been done already. hope he is improving x


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## Bryndu (5 October 2010)

Hi,
Have read you problems and feel this may/may not help.
My Sec D yearling dropped weight all of a sudden in the spring and became hugely wobbly and at times nearly fell. We did bloods and there were signs of selenium deficiency and he had an enlarged liver. My vet suggested worming for liver fluke, very uncommon in horses and nothing to suggest any poor grazing as he has been with me since a foal and very good land. We wormed him with 35ml of Fasinex. He began to pick up and then went on to a course of 30ml day of Visorbin Vit B12 supplement. Poor boy got lice and everything going with being run down and he is now well on the mend though it did take 5 months. He didn't have any odema. 
Just a thought.
Good luck.
Bryndu


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## Katd66 (6 October 2010)

Any news on how your boy is getting on?

Very interesting to hear about the stomach ammonia poisoning - might have a look out for that programme.


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## Aces_High (7 October 2010)

Hi all - Max is still the same really.....  He has had the last of the Batyril this evening so I think the tell tale will be in a couple of days time.  He's had 4 weeks solid of antibiotics now.  I had supper with my vet on Monday night and he's going to keep an eye on him whilst I am away (fly on Sunday....)  He's also going to check him on Saturday so it will be interesting to see what he says.  Bryndu - it's really interesting what you have said about the liver fluke.  I will mention that and the stomach ammonia poisoning.  He seems to be slowly picking up but I can't notice any improvement in his gait.  He had his shoes taken off (he's very p'd off!!) on Tuesday and is now out with Aces High - she's keeping him on his toes and is making sure that he doesn't stand in the same spot for too long!  He does need to keep moving around to keep his muscles working and to start strengthening up again.  I still think his gait behind is abnormal and it certainly isn't what it was.  It will be interesting to see how he looks in Dec when I return.  I don't think that looking at him several times a day helps with my judgement on how he's improving.  He's just getting lots of food, hay, grass and TLC so hopefully that will be enough.  Really wish my trip was in a months time though.


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## Aces_High (15 October 2010)

Hi all from a not so sunny Melbourne.  Just had an update on Max....  It's been a week since he came off his antibiotics and he seems to be on the mend.  He's been towing the workforce to and from his paddock whilst I'm away, which is a clear indication he's getting back on track.  I am now hoping that this is him on his way to recovery and will be able to be shod and resume work in a couple of months time.  Many thanks to all of you who've paid interest in his case and who've been so positive towards him and myself.  The illness still remains a mystery but I think we can put it down to a viral infection that quite possibly came from his fly bites 2 weeks prior to him going down hill so fast.  Many thanks again xxx


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## LauraWheeler (15 October 2010)

Thats brilliant news.  I'm so glad he is on the mend. I hope he continus to improve and is back to his old self soon.


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## Vodkagirly (15 October 2010)

Good to hear he is on the mend, enjoy your trip.


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## KatB (15 October 2010)

Pleased to here he is improving. Fingers crossed it continues!


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## SVMel (15 October 2010)

Glad things are looking up, have a great trip, and keep us updated on how Max goes


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## JenHunt (15 October 2010)

just ploughed my way through this all... not sure how I've missed it. 

glad to hear he's on the mend, fingers crossed it contimues!


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## brighteyes (15 October 2010)

Well good news is always welcome, and the people of this forum never cease to amaze me with their experiences.  Hope he carries on getting better.


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## Aces_High (18 November 2010)

Just heard from the UK today that Here Comes Trouble is being that!  He's galloping around the field like a 2yr old and is having his feet trimmed today.  All seems good for him to be shod on the 9th Dec when I am back in the UK.  So pleased that all has turned out with a happy ending.  Other than head butting my mother nearly knocking her out and giving her a black eye and then kicking top banana pal who's looking after them all not only once but twice.  Just seen it's nearly a month to the day when I last posted - feels like a lifetime ago - not sure if that's good or bad


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## jhoward (18 November 2010)

was wondering how he was the other day, have you had any feed back from the vets?


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## Aces_High (18 November 2010)

jhoward said:



			was wondering how he was the other day, have you had any feed back from the vets?
		
Click to expand...

Everything possible came back negative.  I suppose that's good but terribly frustrating for both myself and the vets.  The bloods were so inconclusive as were the scans and everything else that it's just going to be a "viral infection."  I can honestly say though that the Cobactan was the life saver there.  He won't be going onto Trimed again due to his reaction (so strange when he had been fine for years)  Just one of those unsolvable mysteries.  Oh to have a Dr Sloane present   Everything is on file and a few pieces have been archived for future reference as they were so far out so who knows maybe in 5 yrs time there might be more advancements.....


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## oscarwild (18 November 2010)

Thats great news thats he's picked up to normal.  Was wondering how your boy was doing.

Its so frustrating when you never get to the bottom of things.  I know this when my lad had inflammation in his guts.  He too has now came off his meds and having no adverse effects so far.  So its looks like somthing he ate in the field during the summer.

Hope your boy continues to make a good prgress and he's as good as new when you get back


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