# New horse demonstrating his 'quirk'. Opinions welcomed!



## Auslander (12 June 2012)

So - new boy is in work now - for those who don't know, he is a 15yr old Shire /TB cross, who has been successful up to Inter II level. He's not the biggest, flashiest mover, but is very correct, and very rideable. He has a bit of DJD inhis stifles, but is sound and willing.

He has not competed in a while, and has been used as a schoolmaster for that time. The reason he was offered to me was because he has an issue, which whilst it isn't a problem for me, is not ideal for teaching on.

I had been warned, so got on him very carefully the first time I rode him, and he didn't put a foot out of line. Today however, after lunging him for 15 minutes (so no tickle in his toes, and well warmed up) I got on, and the moment I was on, and moved my legs, he breathed in, put his back up, and would have taken off if I hadn't taken action to stop him. He felt like a youngster having a panic about a 'thing' on his back, every time I moved my legs, or leant forward to pat him, his back went up and he felt like he was about to explode. I sat very quietly, scratched his neck, and chatted to him, and he breathed out, back came down, and he visibly relaxed. This happened about three times, then he relaxed. He put his back up and went to take flight as I put my leg on to ask him to walk on, then relaxed and walked forward off a voice aid. He was fine after that...

It's really odd!! He's a 'been there, done it' horse,so no reason to be panicky about a rider on him. He has had his back looked at recently, so I don't think it's a pain reaction, and I can't really work out what it is that's bothering him. He was perfectly happy once we were underway - even took a bit of a kick in the ribs at one point. 

I took him on with total transparency from the owner about this quirk - so I was expecting it - but I would like to work out what's going on in his little brain. I'm really interested in anyones thoughts/experiences.


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## measles (12 June 2012)

How long has he been exhibiting this behaviour for in his old home?   Did something happen to trigger it that they are aware of, or did it start suddenly for no reason or has it alwasy been there?


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## Old Bat (12 June 2012)

Inevitable question but does his saddle fit properly?


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## 3BayGeldings (12 June 2012)

Back checked? I am forever paranoid about kissing spines


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## TarrSteps (12 June 2012)

Hmmm. Honest reaction? If the horse has not had an obvious trauma I'd say that IS a pain reaction. By 'looked at' I presume you mean x-rayed?

I am not of the 'everything that's non-compliant necessarily hurts' school but if an older, ridable horse starts having such a specific reaction completely out of the blue it would raise my antennae.

Sorry, not what you want to hear. There are things you can do for him and he may just get.better as his general way of going improves but it sounds like the sort of situation where someone could get hurt so seems sensible to take precautions.


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## Auslander (12 June 2012)

measles said:



			How long has he been exhibiting this behaviour for in his old home?   Did something happen to trigger it that they are aware of, or did it start suddenly for no reason or has it alwasy been there?
		
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As far as I know, it started in the last few years - whether it was at his old yard, or while he was loaned to a friend of hers for a while, I don't know yet. I've asked her, and will update as soon as I know.


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## Auslander (12 June 2012)

It started while he was on loan, then stopped when he came home. Was fine for 9 months, then started doing it again about three weeks ago.

He hasn't been x-rayed, but has had a chiro assessment - and she apparently said that she could find nothing amiss in his spine - all she noted was stiffness in his stifles.


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## Auslander (12 June 2012)

TarrSteps said:



			Hmmm. Honest reaction? If the horse has not had an obvious trauma I'd say that IS a pain reaction. By 'looked at' I presume you mean x-rayed?

I am not of the 'everything that's non-compliant necessarily hurts' school but if an older, ridable horse starts having such a specific reaction completely out of the blue it would raise my antennae.

Sorry, not what you want to hear. There are things you can do for him and he may just get.better as his general way of going improves but it sounds like the sort of situation where someone could get hurt so seems sensible to take precautions.
		
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Absolutely agree! I certainly won't be getting on him without someone there! At least I know he settles if I sit quietly and let him process for a minute. I almost feel like he was expecting me to hurt him, rather than him being in physical pain - if that makes sense?


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## stencilface (12 June 2012)

I don't think a chiro would pick it up tbh, my horse has been seen by our chiro for years, and there is nothing wrong with his back, however when he was xrayed for something else, the vets identified that his spine was very closely set, and said in some instances it would exhibit as KS, although not in my horse


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## Auslander (12 June 2012)

Old Bat said:



			Inevitable question but does his saddle fit properly?
		
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The reaction happens no matter what saddle he is wearing. Mine appears to fit him well, with the proviso that I am going by what I have learned about saddle fitting over the course of my career - although I am not a fitter, and will be getting it checked asap.


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## frustrated (12 June 2012)

I would get either an osteopath, or mctimoney practitioner to look at him. He could have a subluxation of a rib which i believe is very painful. It wouldn't show on an x-ray and the standard phsio wouldn't necessarily pick it up.


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## Auslander (12 June 2012)

Stencilface said:



			I don't think a chiro would pick it up tbh, my horse has been seen by our chiro for years, and there is nothing wrong with his back, however when he was xrayed for something else, the vets identified that his spine was very closely set, and said in some instances it would exhibit as KS, although not in my horse 

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Hmm - hope not, although will add it to the list! I'dve thought, if it was kissing spines/pain  that he wouldn't relax and get on with it after the initial blip though. It really does feel like fear rather than pain, and he responds well if I just st there and let him process his thoughts.


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## ihatework (12 June 2012)

My gut feeling is that it is either current pain or a pain memory.
Could be something as simple as summer grass = increased weight = saddle pinching
Could possibly be a girthing issue, I've known one with a similar reaction
Does he launch into boncs?
Dare you try him bareback (tentative suggestion there!!)
Might be worth a set of x-rays to rule out a kissing spine.


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## Tempi (12 June 2012)

I would definitely x ray to rule out kissing spine, I friend of mines horse recently got diagnosed with KS and the only symptom it displayed was being very tense when she first got on, he then relaxed, very similar to your horse.  She thought it wasnt anything serious and had chirco etc and they said nothing wrong but when he didnt improve she had him x rayed and low and behold there was something else going on.


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## Auslander (12 June 2012)

ihatework said:



			My gut feeling is that it is either current pain or a pain memory.
Could be something as simple as summer grass = increased weight = saddle pinching
Could possibly be a girthing issue, I've known one with a similar reaction
Does he launch into boncs?
Dare you try him bareback (tentative suggestion there!!)
Might be worth a set of x-rays to rule out a kissing spine.
		
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He's new to me, so the saddle is new to him. If anything, its a bit wide for him.
Girthing issue had also sprung to mind - but he doesn't react to having it tightened from the ground, nor did he react when I tightened it from on top once he'd settled.

He didn't get a chance to launch/bronc, because I didn't let him. For the purposes of research, I should probably let him do his thing, to find out exactly what he would do given the chance - but frankly, I don't have the bottle!! I will try bareback - could be entertaining for everyone else to watch!!
I'm more than happy to do whatever it takes to get to the bottom of this - so if xrays are needed, that's what I'll do. He's a lovely chap, who doesn't owe anyone anything, so I will do whatever it takes to get to the bottom of this.


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## Auslander (12 June 2012)

Tempi said:



			I would definitely x ray to rule out kissing spine, I friend of mines horse recently got diagnosed with KS and the only symptom it displayed was being very tense when she first got on, he then relaxed, very similar to your horse.  She thought it wasnt anything serious and had chirco etc and they said nothing wrong but when he didnt improve she had him x rayed and low and behold there was something else going on.
		
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Hmm! Thanks. Sounds like I need to start thinking along those lines.


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## milz88 (12 June 2012)

Tempi said:



			I would definitely x ray to rule out kissing spine, I friend of mines horse recently got diagnosed with KS and the only symptom it displayed was being very tense when she first got on, he then relaxed, very similar to your horse.  She thought it wasnt anything serious and had chirco etc and they said nothing wrong but when he didnt improve she had him x rayed and low and behold there was something else going on.
		
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This! Unbelievably, my horse was diagnosed with 3 or 4 impinging vertebra, and all he ever did, even whilst I was still riding/jumping him was become very behind the leg/stuffy and showed a loss of performance. Never a single buck,rear, or slightest nasty behaviour. I kind of wish he made it more obvious poor soul.

For the sake of ruling it out I'd be tempted to get a set of x-rays done rather than pour money at physios/chiros/thermal imaging/saddle fitting etc if you think all those boxes are already ticked.

Best of luck.


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## Apercrumbie (12 June 2012)

Well it could just be that he's cold-backed, the riding school I occasionally work at has a horse that is an absolute grump and often bucks unless he's had the saddle on for 10min and a 20min walk with the saddle on.  Annoying, but he's a fantastic horse and it's worth it.  It definitely isn't pain, he's had every check/x-ray/scan under the sun, it's just him.  

However the fact that he has developed his behaviour implies that there is some pain there or at least the memory of pain.  If you're brave enough I would try him bareback (please have someone with you, go on the lunge if you feel safer) and guage his reaction then.


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## Auslander (12 June 2012)

Apercrumbie said:



			Well it could just be that he's cold-backed, the riding school I occasionally work at has a horse that is an absolute grump and often bucks unless he's had the saddle on for 10min and a 20min walk with the saddle on.  Annoying, but he's a fantastic horse and it's worth it.  It definitely isn't pain, he's had every check/x-ray/scan under the sun, it's just him.  

However the fact that he has developed his behaviour implies that there is some pain there or at least the memory of pain.  If you're brave enough I would try him bareback (please have someone with you, go on the lunge if you feel safer) and guage his reaction then.
		
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I'l definitely give the bareback a go! I'm pretty brave (although obv not brave enough to let him do whatever it is he wants to do!!) so not worried about that.
He had been lunged for a good 15 mins before I got on - and was bucking on the lunge, but they looked more like happy bucks than hurty bucks. He lunges very well - long and low and very active. 
I was worried that it was my weight - I'm pretty hefty, but the last time he did it, he had a skinny little teenager on him - it's completely random as to when he does it, and with who.


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## kerilli (12 June 2012)

ditto, i'd try bareback, and be very suspicious of the saddle tbh. are his teeth fine? nice bit that he's happy with?
also, when you say 'He didn't get a chance to launch/bronc, because I didn't let him'.... erm, how, exactly...?! because if a fight/flight animal decides to go for it, i don't think there's any possible way of stopping them. maybe you managed to reassure/distract him fast enough for him to start relaxing, which got you both out of the danger zone...
hope you get to the bottom of it.


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## Auslander (12 June 2012)

kerilli said:



			ditto, i'd try bareback, and be very suspicious of the saddle tbh. are his teeth fine? nice bit that he's happy with?
also, when you say 'He didn't get a chance to launch/bronc, because I didn't let him'.... erm, how, exactly...?! because if a fight/flight animal decides to go for it, i don't think there's any possible way of stopping them. maybe you managed to reassure/distract him fast enough for him to start relaxing, which got you both out of the danger zone...
hope you get to the bottom of it.
		
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I'm suspicious about saddle too - although it seems to fit nicely. Teeth are fine, and he is in a loose ring french link, which he seems to be fine with.

Re the 'not letting him' - he tensed up, started to bounce forward, and felt like he was about to launch himself in an unspecifed direction, so I grabbed a handful of the front end and said "Oi" - at which point he stopped in his tracks, put his back down and breathed out. It felt like he relaxed when he realised I wasn't going to let him bog off - the moment I had a contact and stuck my leg on, he settled.


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## kerilli (12 June 2012)

ah right, i see. sounds as if it was exactly what he needed, thank goodness!


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## Dizzydancer (12 June 2012)

My ex racer does this but at this time of year only. I have managed to narrow it down to being spring grass and him having mild ulcers which make him uncomfortable. I give him rennies 20min before riding and only do his girth up very slowly before riding. If he does get his back up i manage to make him stand then he settles then he moves off to voice then leg after few mins of settled walk.


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## Auslander (12 June 2012)

kerilli said:



			ah right, i see. sounds as if it was exactly what he needed, thank goodness!
		
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Might sound really silly, but it started when he was off being a happy hacker, and his reactions to things when in hand/on the yard/turned out are a bit extreme - yet the moment he goes in the school, he pulls his socks up and is very calm. The fact that he responded very well to me saying "No - we don't do that" makes me wonder if its something to do with having always been ridden in a very disciplined way, and not coping with being free to make his own choices.

God - I sound SO fluffy!!


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## ironhorse (12 June 2012)

'fluffy' - but you might have a point.
A good friend of mine who is a BHSI but old enough not to want to get dumped was given a former PSG horse on loan. Lovely horse but if you let him amble round the school he would spook violently at everything. The moment she gave him a kick and made him get on with it he was fine - I' m thinking this might be a similar thing, that he's a bit conditioned to discipline!
Funnily enough this horse never did anything on a hack - my novice rider OH used to nanny me and my neurotic hunter in heavy traffic on him


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## Jesstickle (12 June 2012)

Isn't it current thought that anything up to 40% of horses have KS if you actually go looking for it? Obviously not all of those are in any way affected by it. If you x-ray and see impingement how are you going to know if it is that if you haven't explored other avenues (saddle fit etc) first?

Just saying like...


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## Auslander (12 June 2012)

ironhorse said:



			'fluffy' - but you might have a point.
A good friend of mine who is a BHSI but old enough not to want to get dumped was given a former PSG horse on loan. Lovely horse but if you let him amble round the school he would spook violently at everything. The moment she gave him a kick and made him get on with it he was fine - I' m thinking this might be a similar thing, that he's a bit conditioned to discipline!
Funnily enough this horse never did anything on a hack - my novice rider OH used to nanny me and my neurotic hunter in heavy traffic on him 

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She sounds like me! I used to break in 2yr old racehorses, and get slung off fit eventers without a qualm, but now I'm looking down the barrel of 40, I don't have any interest in hitting the deck!! 

He is apparently a fab hack as well - I might try getting on him on the yard, facing the outside world and see what happens!


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## whorls (12 June 2012)

How long ago was he diagnosed with DJD in his stifles? Just wondering whether there have been any changes since the initial diagnosis... ?


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## Auslander (12 June 2012)

jesstickle said:



			Isn't it current thought that anything up to 40% of horses have KS if you actually go looking for it? Obviously not all of those are in any way affected by it. If you x-ray and see impingement how are you going to know if it is that if you haven't explored other avenues (saddle fit etc) first?

Just saying like...
		
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I'm going to try him bareback, get the saddle looked at/replaced if nec (it will break my heart to say goodbye to it!) and give it a few days of just getting on and doing what I did today. Thing is -  He hasn't been ridden in 6 weeks, he's come to a new place, and his exploits since he got here (jumping out of field/pulling back and depositing the contents of the gutter all over himself/knocking me over) don't exactly say "settled" to me.Plus he's been in solitary confinement since he got here. I'm not by any means ruling out pain of some sort, but there are other factors that can't be helping his state of mind. He's a sensitive soul - for a carthorse!!

I'm pulling a few strings to see if I can have a chat with an equine mobility specialist vet - the perks of working in the sector, and am trying to get through to my vet for a chat. I will get to the bottom of this - but firstly, I'm going to get him out in the field with another horse - he's officially finished his quarantine period today.


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## be positive (12 June 2012)

I have a schoolmaster event horse at livery that has changed shape and built up topline over the past year, he has had new saddles, regular physio and looks fab. Early this year he did the same as your horse, the first time was fairly explosive but put down to freshness and having just been clipped, saddle patch done in error.
He continued to lift his back almost every time mounted, he would be led forward and the back would come back down after just a short distance, he had physio, a change of dressage saddle, but still no difference but no loss of performance or problems in his work. 
I was thinking possibly a real issue but was unsure what to advise the owners, this behaviour only happened at home never out at comps.
About 6 weeks ago his owner got on and as I went to lead him forward he slightly planted himself instead of moving with me, I got cross and insisted he went, I was actually worried this was a sign of deterioration but did not want to say so in front of his young rider, he walked on took a deep breath, in the way he does when relaxing, he has not done it since that day!!

I think it was memory of his discomfort during the time he really changed shape while we were getting new saddles sorted and he just needed a firm hand to remind him how to behave himself.
He has since been going even better, placed at BE last time, it is in my mind that there could be a problem and if he shows any more signs we will get a full check done.
Long waffle but thought it may be relevant


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## Auslander (12 June 2012)

whorls said:



			How long ago was he diagnosed with DJD in his stifles? Just wondering whether there have been any changes since the initial diagnosis... ?
		
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He's never been officially diagnosed - this was just the opinion of his previous previous owner, who was a vet. He hasn't got any stiffer in the ensuing time, but its on the list for further investigation. I'm actually working on getting him used as a case study for a machine that has great results on horses with chronic joint issues - and if that doesn't happen - I'll get him treated anyway!!


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## Auslander (12 June 2012)

be positive said:



			I think it was memory of his discomfort during the time he really changed shape while we were getting new saddles sorted and he just needed a firm hand to remind him how to behave himself.
		
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That's almost exactly what his previous owner said - in slightly more fruity language. Basically, that she thought it was him being neurotic and a kick up the arris might be just the thing!! I'm keen to rule out pain, but it was interesting that he packed it in when I said No earlier today!


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## Jesstickle (12 June 2012)

Auslander said:



			I'm pulling a few strings to see if I can have a chat with an equine mobility specialist vet - the perks of working in the sector, and am trying to get through to my vet for a chat. I will get to the bottom of this - but firstly, I'm going to get him out in the field with another horse - he's officially finished his quarantine period today.
		
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I had the perks of living on the same yard as the ortho vet but I've moved now sadly. Can still text her though thank goodness. It is handy isn't it?


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## Auslander (12 June 2012)

jesstickle said:



			I had the perks of living on the same yard as the ortho vet but I've moved now sadly. Can still text her though thank goodness. It is handy isn't it?
		
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It will be if it happens!! Am on tenterhooks waiting for a response to my message!


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## bunnereeny (12 June 2012)

Read this all with great interest I have a 4yr old that does EXACTLY the same. Only way I have prevented him form broncing off with me though is to ride him in draw reins. I can lunge as much as i like prior to mounting but if i try and mount without draw reins head goes down back comes up and we do a nice impression of a western! 

This morning I thought i'd be brave and attempt to hack him without the draw reins. I always lean over his back before mounting, touch all his sides as he's a bit of a faff. I had barely got my tummy in the saddle today when he flew across the yard up'n n down'n (with me still clung onto breast plate). He knee'd me in the bum so i had a dead arse and leg and couldn;t attempt remount immediately so i lunged him for 20 mins then got his draw reing on and the let me mount him fine we didn't hack i got straight back off praised him and put him away i just wanted to prove a point tha he WOULD let me get on. 

He was proffessionally broken at a well known yard in the area and his owner said that even the girls that broke him were a bit weary of him. He is one of those that given any opportunity to take the p**s then he will use it although generally he is a lovely boy to be around. 

He has had all relevant checks it just seems to be his "quirk"


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## whorls (12 June 2012)

Auslander - cant quote on phone but would be interested to hear about the new treatment.
Hope you dont mind me butting in, it was just a thought I had when reading your initial post  should have realised you were already on to that! Good luck finding out what's causing these little outbursts.


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## Auslander (12 June 2012)

bunnereeny said:



			Read this all with great interest I have a 4yr old that does EXACTLY the same. Only way I have prevented him form broncing off with me though is to ride him in draw reins. I can lunge as much as i like prior to mounting but if i try and mount without draw reins head goes down back comes up and we do a nice impression of a western! 

This morning I thought i'd be brave and attempt to hack him without the draw reins. I always lean over his back before mounting, touch all his sides as he's a bit of a faff. I had barely got my tummy in the saddle today when he flew across the yard up'n n down'n (with me still clung onto breast plate). He knee'd me in the bum so i had a dead arse and leg and couldn;t attempt remount immediately so i lunged him for 20 mins then got his draw reing on and the let me mount him fine we didn't hack i got straight back off praised him and put him away i just wanted to prove a point tha he WOULD let me get on. 

He was proffessionally broken at a well known yard in the area and his owner said that even the girls that broke him were a bit weary of him. He is one of those that given any opportunity to take the p**s then he will use it although generally he is a lovely boy to be around. 

He has had all relevant checks it just seems to be his "quirk"
		
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Is it wrong that this made me giggle!! The mental picture...

While I was working on a VERY posh dressage yard in Switzerland, we had a 4yr old Shire in to be schooled. As he was English, and I was English, they gave him to me to ride. I went to get on him, got one foot in the stirrup, and was about to put my right leg over his back, when he bogged off round the school broncing (impressive skills for a big carthorse!) I was damn sure I wasn't letting go and getting stomped on by his enormous dinner plate feet,but couldn't get my leg over, so I grabbed a handful of mane and hung on for several circuits of the school - like a rock climber! 

I have never seen so many serious Swiss people rolling about laughing!!


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## JFTDWS (12 June 2012)

Auslander said:



			Is it wrong that this made me giggle!! The mental picture...

While I was working on a VERY posh dressage yard in Switzerland, we had a 4yr old Shire in to be schooled. As he was English, and I was English, they gave him to me to ride. I went to get on him, got one foot in the stirrup, and was about to put my right leg over his back, when he bogged off round the school broncing (impressive skills for a big carthorse!) I was damn sure I wasn't letting go and getting stomped on by his enormous dinner plate feet,but couldn't get my leg over, so I grabbed a handful of mane and hung on for several circuits of the school - like a rock climber! 

I have never seen so many serious Swiss people rolling about laughing!!
		
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That thought is now up there with "wobble and flop" as my favourite mental image associated with you 

That is the only contribution I have to this thread, sorry.  So not my field


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## Auslander (12 June 2012)

JFTD said:



			That thought is now up there with "wobble and flop" as my favourite mental image associated with you 

That is the only contribution I have to this thread, sorry.  So not my field 

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I have SO many stories like this!!


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## Auslander (12 June 2012)

whorls said:



			Auslander - cant quote on phone but would be interested to hear about the new treatment.
Hope you dont mind me butting in, it was just a thought I had when reading your initial post  should have realised you were already on to that! Good luck finding out what's causing these little outbursts.
		
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It's not particularly new - just not widely used yet. I'm a bit loath to mention it yet, purely because I've cheekily asked them if he can be a case study, and not had a Yes or No yet. Kinda want to have it in the bag before I go shouting my mouth off, so as not to kibosh it! I'll PM you though!


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## Sportznight (12 June 2012)

Auslander said:



			He's a sensitive soul - for a carthorse!!
		
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That'll be the Shire IME - I've never met a shirexTB that wasn't sensitive/had a quirk, but I've loved each and every one!  Awesome horses!  Do be aware that if you ever need to sedate him, that he is likely to only need a tiny amount - I've known 2mls of sedalin have a 17.2 shirexTB nearly on the ground.

Sorry, not much help to your current problems.


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## bunnereeny (12 June 2012)

Auslander said:



			Is it wrong that this made me giggle!! The mental picture...

While I was working on a VERY posh dressage yard in Switzerland, we had a 4yr old Shire in to be schooled. As he was English, and I was English, they gave him to me to ride. I went to get on him, got one foot in the stirrup, and was about to put my right leg over his back, when he bogged off round the school broncing (impressive skills for a big carthorse!) I was damn sure I wasn't letting go and getting stomped on by his enormous dinner plate feet,but couldn't get my leg over, so I grabbed a handful of mane and hung on for several circuits of the school - like a rock climber! 

I have never seen so many serious Swiss people rolling about laughing!!
		
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haha well usually if he is going to try it he at least wait till my arse is in the saddle unfortunately i did fly off to the side with the first bronc but stubborness set in n i thought "ur not getting rid of me that easily u liittle *****" so i clung on, safety wise i should have probably let go but i think if he completely got rid of me he'd try it every time and this is only the 2nd time in the month i've been riding him that he has done it.

he's just a complicated donkey lol


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## Goldenstar (12 June 2012)

Proceed with caution is what I would say .
I would get a saddle check and get a good equine vet to have a look at his back a set of X-rays if apporiate would put your mind a rest and mild KS can be well managed now.
However I think some horses do have quirks that are based in memory and you just have to manage them I don't think it's always pain but it can be the memory of pain that's triggered sometimes.
I had one that had been difficult to back you could never have her stand to mount it had to be a moving start she had good days and bad days but I just had to accept I had to work round the issue .
Mind I was twenty then would not be so keen now.


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## dafthoss (12 June 2012)

When the YP arrived he did a similar thing. I used to have to squish him in a corner and keep a contact while I mounted and be ready with a stick or my knee to shove him back in if he tried to bog off. First time he did it he managed half a circuit of the school in that trot that only a pony can manage with sewing machine legs before rearing when I got him to stop (all minus stirrups ). Now its a much more chilled out affair that normally involves me leaving the reins on his neck untill I'm sorted and ready to move off but if he is stressed he can some times revert back to his old ways.


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## Auslander (12 June 2012)

Sportznight said:



			That'll be the Shire IME - I've never met a shirexTB that wasn't sensitive/had a quirk, but I've loved each and every one!  Awesome horses!  Do be aware that if you ever need to sedate him, that he is likely to only need a tiny amount - I've known 2mls of sedalin have a 17.2 shirexTB nearly on the ground.

Sorry, not much help to your current problems.
		
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I know - was kidding!! He definitely gets that Shire-ish worried look abotu him when things are all getting too much for him!! He's such a sweet horse - not an ounce of malice in him, but he's quite large to be trying to sit on my lap when he gets scared!

Will bear that in mind if he needs sedating!! Thanks


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## Auslander (12 June 2012)

Goldenstar said:



			Proceed with caution is what I would say .
I would get a saddle check and get a good equine vet to have a look at his back a set of X-rays if apporiate would put your mind a rest and mild KS can be well managed now.
However I think some horses do have quirks that are based in memory and you just have to manage them I don't think it's always pain but it can be the memory of pain that's triggered sometimes.
I had one that had been difficult to back you could never have her stand to mount it had to be a moving start she had good days and bad days but I just had to accept I had to work round the issue .
Mind I was twenty then would not be so keen now.
		
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I will be careful!! At least I know what to expect, and tbh - he doesn't do anything that quickly - and I'm pretty handy at sticking on anyway (courtesy of aforementioned 2yo racehorses!) Saddle and vet check on the to do straight away list - and if he does just turn out to be quirky, I can live with it! Just want to absolutely rule out pain first.


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## Auslander (12 June 2012)

dafthoss said:



			When the YP arrived he did a similar thing. I used to have to squish him in a corner and keep a contact while I mounted and be ready with a stick or my knee to shove him back in if he tried to bog off. First time he did it he managed half a circuit of the school in that trot that only a pony can manage with sewing machine legs before rearing when I got him to stop (all minus stirrups ). Now its a much more chilled out affair that normally involves me leaving the reins on his neck untill I'm sorted and ready to move off but if he is stressed he can some times revert back to his old ways.
		
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Corner sounds like a plan - I shall wedge him into it, and sit there singing songs til he remembers to breathe next time!!


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## TarrSteps (12 June 2012)

Sportznight said:



			That'll be the Shire IME - I've never met a shirexTB that wasn't sensitive/had a quirk, but I've loved each and every one!  Awesome horses!  Do be aware that if you ever need to sedate him, that he is likely to only need a tiny amount - I've known 2mls of sedalin have a 17.2 shirexTB nearly on the ground.

Sorry, not much help to your current problems.
		
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Sorry, I just twigged he's a Draught x.  Doh.

In my "bad horse business" in my previous life Clyde/Shire/Belgian x's were over represented with bucking/bogging off issues, oddly enough.  (Tbf, there are a lot of them - they fill the niche cobs do here and we don't really have those.)  One issue I'm fairly sure of was saddle fit.  Many of them had "driving/pulling horse" backs rather than "riding horse" backs and it's notoriously difficult to get saddles to REALLY fit them, especially if they change in shape.  I met quite a few who started to show the behaviour after they'd been backed for a year or so and just starting "proper" work.  

I do think there is often a "big horse equals brave horse" mindset at work, too, and people, especially inexperienced riders miss the signs of stress they might be more sympathetic to in a lighter horse.  For some reason people assume draught horses should be more stoic and put up with more crap than other types - untrue and unfair in my experience!  Shires especially seem to be big worriers!

I can't say to KS or related as that fashion had/has not hit so none of the suspects I met were ever x-rayed.  I will say though, the "non riding horse shape" might make me a bit suspicious now I know a bit more about it.  Many of the ones I knew worked a bit hollow in their backs but without the tell tale U or V shape of hollow TB types so perhaps it didn't seem as "bad" to their riders.  In this horse's case that would seem unusual, since he's had such good training, but maybe he was allowed to move in a way at his loan home that's compromised him somehow?

I'm also a bit curious about the DJD in his stifles.  Did they not x-ray then?  What were his symptoms?

Also, for a really out in left field question does he have a noseband on?  Can you try with it off?  (Not loose, off.)  I've done quite a few "exploding horses" and have my own bizzaro system that I can't begin to explain here but that is a fairly important part of it, believe it or not!


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## Auslander (12 June 2012)

Interesting! I've always thought of Shire permutations as being quite sensitive souls, and I have been conscious from the word Go that he's one of life's worriers. I certainly wouldn't push him about like I did with my last horse, who was a similarly large chap, but warmblood. Good to hear that people who know the draft breeds all say that they can be troubled souls!

In terms of shape, he is, to my eye, riding shaped, rather than pulling shape  although you can see the Shire in him when he prats about on the lunge, so there could well be something in that! He isn't your classic advanced dressage "get on, pick up the reins, straight into an outline" sort - he needs really riding up to the bit, and you can really feel him coming up under the saddle when you ask him to work correctly. 

DJD wise, he was assessed by an independent vet as he was stiff pulling out of the box, who identified inflammation around the stifle joint, and said "He has DJD". As far as I know, from that moment on - he had the DJD badge, was slowly warmed up for longer, they stopped doing piaffe and passage with him, and he was on a devils claw supplement. He's had regular physio and chiro treatments, and was winning and being placed at PSG, so they never felt he was in need of anything more in terms of investigation. I can see why - he was a schoolmaster, not one of their serious competition horses. He was sound, and seemed comfortable, so their management was working for them. As he is my only horse, I am more than happy to go at it in a more in depth way, and get him treated/medicated as appropriate. He's on a really good joint supplement - which I'm sure is helping, and has more turnout than he had previously.

I chuckled about the noseband! He is in a borrowed bridle at the moment, which has no noseband - and very silly he looks as well!! He is used to working in either a double or a snaffle - and has a very nice mouth.


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## ecrozier (12 June 2012)

Lol bless him I bet the bridle looks ridiculously fine on him - the cheek pieces are full but the headpiece is cob, and was all bought with a 3 year old roo in mind for showing!!
The only useful help I can ad to this thread is that I use a mctimoney based in Bourne end if you want her number?


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## Auslander (12 June 2012)

ecrozier said:



			Lol bless him I bet the bridle looks ridiculously fine on him - the cheek pieces are full but the headpiece is cob, and was all bought with a 3 year old roo in mind for showing!!
The only useful help I can ad to this thread is that I use a mctimoney based in Bourne end if you want her number?
		
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Ooh! Yes please!!

He does indeed look very silly in the bridle!!


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## ecrozier (12 June 2012)

His head is a wee bit bigger than roopert's!
Number on its way by email.


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## Festive_Felicitations (13 June 2012)

fairly irrelevant I suspect OP, but...

On the Shire aspect, I read something somewhere which I thought was really interesting. In Aus like in Canada (I presume TS?) Shire or Clydie X's play the role of cobs, and some one was talking about how 'heavies' are not really as quiet as many people expect and so not always the best 'beginner horse'.  

Someone rightly (imho) pointed out that they were bred to work - quite hard and for long hours. Which not only requires the physical build to do so but also the right mental attitude - i.e. a willingness to work or liveliness, and a certain amount of mental grit to keep going at the end of the day.
Which is why people who buy full or crosses as pleasure hacks can find they have a rather lively horse on their hands becasue they are not getting the work/stimulation they need.

I realise there are exceptions to everything and in general they are going to be quieter than you average TB but still thought it was an interesting point.


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## Auslander (13 June 2012)

Festive_Felicitations said:



			fairly irrelevant I suspect OP, but...

On the Shire aspect, I read something somewhere which I thought was really interesting. In Aus like in Canada (I presume TS?) Shire or Clydie X's play the role of cobs, and some one was talking about how 'heavies' are not really as quiet as many people expect and so not always the best 'beginner horse'.  

Someone rightly (imho) pointed out that they were bred to work - quite hard and for long hours. Which not only requires the physical build to do so but also the right mental attitude - i.e. a willingness to work or liveliness, and a certain amount of mental grit to keep going at the end of the day.
Which is why people who buy full or crosses as pleasure hacks can find they have a rather lively horse on their hands becasue they are not getting the work/stimulation they need.

I realise there are exceptions to everything and in general they are going to be quieter than you average TB but still thought it was an interesting point.
		
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That all makes sense - there's certainly no way I'd put a beginner on him!! I'm loath to put anyone on him at the moment really, but I'd like to observe from the ground, to see what it looks like, as opposed to how it feels! 

He's not even remotely silly once he's had his little moment - just a nice, well schooled, willing horse. Need to get to the bottom of this!


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## Auslander (13 June 2012)

Something potentially brilliant has happened today! I mentioned earlier that he was possibly suitable as a case study for a company that I do some work for. Well - I had a very interesting conversation today, and it looks like it may be all systems go. I'll spill more beans when I know it's definitely happening, and will can also, if people are interested, do a semi live feed of how the diagnostics/therapy go. There is talk of using a combination of two different machines on him, and it sounds like it could be a really interesting process!


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## wizoz (13 June 2012)

Ok, we have a horse that did very similar to this. He never felt like he was scared, he was just telling you he was uncomfortable. His thing was to hump his back, squish his body up really tight and walk like he was on tip toes, he was especially worse when starting to go downhills. It turned out he had pedal bone rotation in all 4 feet!
I do believe that horses do try and tell you in their own way that they hurt somewhere, or that something is wrong. Our boy was referred to a vets where they do Syntography (I hope that is correct?) They inject radioactive stuff into him and he then had a full body imagery thing done. It showed up the rotation and hot spots in his hocks.

I hope you can find out what is wrong with you chap, best of luck.


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## boxcarhorse (13 June 2012)

I bought an elderly dressage schoolmaster (18yrs when I got him) who did this - exactly as you describe - with periods when he was fine and others when he wasn't.  We eventually came to the conclusion that it was related to the arthritis in his various joints.

Feeding Devils Claw seemed to improve things.  But after a couple of years I loaned him as a light hack - and he now (aged 23yrs) never, ever does it with his novicey, hacking loaner... but he's only ridden twice a week and very lightly at that.


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## Auslander (13 June 2012)

This horse just gets more and more special! I have just got off the phone to his original owner, as part of my quest to find out more about him.
She told me that he was selected as a potential squad horse for the 2008 Para Olympic squad, although he didn't go because he failed the 5 stage vetting. He must be some kind of dude to get that far through the selection process though!
Now have a lot more info about his stifle problem, and I also know that he was never a problem to get on, despite the physical problems he had- so something happened to him at some point to make him do what he does.
I have high hopes for the treatment programme he is going to embark on - but even if he isn't able to do more than light work, he's got a home for life. Love him to bits!


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## TarrSteps (14 June 2012)

I'll be very curious to know what you're up to. I love a bit of weird horsey science! 

Also, food for thought, there is another thread up about sheepskin pads and horses with iffy backs, and a number of them about horses with EPSM.  Might be worth a read through to see if any of it resonates.


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## Auslander (14 June 2012)

TarrSteps said:



			I'll be very curious to know what you're up to. I love a bit of weird horsey science! 

Also, food for thought, there is another thread up about sheepskin pads and horses with iffy backs, and a number of them about horses with EPSM.  Might be worth a read through to see if any of it resonates.
		
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I'll be taking copious notes, loads of pics, vid, etc etc - so there'll be no shortage of geeky info! I'm fascinated to see the thermal images - just hope the whole horse doesn't light up like a christmas tree!

R sheepskin pads - that made me grin! I'm a New Zealander by heritage, so as far as I am concerned, sheepskin is the bees knees. I've got a cousin flying in from NZ in a bout 10 days time, and in her luggage, there will be a sheepskin that I asked her to pick up about a week ago! They are very easy to turn into  half pads, and the quality is fantastic.

Will be looking very closely at the EPSM threads - no avenue will be left unexplored!


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## IsabelleJ (14 June 2012)

Just wanted to say, my Shire x TB is not particularly sensitive (luckily for me as I can be a bit nervous!) but has been a bit "humpy" with me the last few days with a new saddle. Possibly down to my extra weight, as he didn't do it with sharer.

I LOVE this cross, my boy can be a bit spooky, but apart from that is the sweetest, easiest horse ever. We are hoping to get him to Medium level, so it is interesting to hear about your schoolmaster.

Good luck with him, he is totally gorgeous!

Isabelle


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## KPM (14 June 2012)

Not a regular contributor to HHO, but felt compelled to add to this thread as another person who has a somewhat quirky horse to mount.  Mines stemmed from during backing (long story!) but when they went it was when you were half way over and it was full on bronc.  We seem to have moved past this now *touch wood*, but I NEVER take the mounting for granted.  For mine, I believe it was a confidence thing and had become habit. If you would like to hear more, feel free to PM me. 

Best of luck, your boy sounds lucky to have fallen into such a lovely home.


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## Auslander (14 June 2012)

IsabelleJ said:



			We are hoping to get him to Medium level, so it is interesting to hear about your schoolmaster.

Good luck with him, he is totally gorgeous!

Isabelle
		
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You never know - he might be another Alf, who worked at GP level at home with his first owner - the skys the limit!!



KPM said:



			Not a regular contributor to HHO, but felt compelled to add to this thread as another person who has a somewhat quirky horse to mount.  Mines stemmed from during backing (long story!) but when they went it was when you were half way over and it was full on bronc.  We seem to have moved past this now *touch wood*, but I NEVER take the mounting for granted.  For mine, I believe it was a confidence thing and had become habit. If you would like to hear more, feel free to PM me. 

Best of luck, your boy sounds lucky to have fallen into such a lovely home.
		
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Thank you - I'd be interested to hear your story, although Alf didnt do it at all til last year - he was so safe up until then that they were able to build a pile of pallets, and put a mounting block on top of them in order to get the disabled rider who rode him during the Paralympic selection process up on him! It's very new, and very strange.

Im the lucky one! He's very special, and I feel very privileged to have him!


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## Silversheltie (14 June 2012)

This is the first time I've ever felt compelled to respond to a forum but you could have been describing my horse.  He's 15 and has been with me for 10 years and intermittently he has always had this quirk. Generally he's a lovely horse with a wonderful temperament who hasn't got an ounce of malice in him.  I've had all the usual suspects, saddle, teeth, back etc regularly checked but after his initial humping of his back he settles down and behaves normally. The problem gets worse in the winter months so I always ride him with an exercise sheet to keep his back warm and this seems to help a little.  It is also much worse if we are at a new venue for either lessons or competitions.  In the warm summer months when he has lots of turnout he can go for weeks on end without any problems provided I mount him in the arena but if I get on at the mounting block on the yard which means we're going for a hack he'll do it again.  All these factors have led me to conclude that its most likely between his ears.  Over the years we've had chiro's, accupuncture, massage and even invested in an equissage the vet has also checked him over but no one can find anything wrong its just been put down to "cold backed".  I've now decided to request an appointment at a local vet hospital to get x rays and scintography done so I hope I'll finally be able to get to the bottom of it.  Although to date he never has exploded with me its still a horrible feeling as though he is trying to run away from his rider and there is absolutely nothing I can do to about it until he has had his little moment and got it out of his system.  I'll be following your posts with great interest to see how you get on.


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## Auslander (14 June 2012)

Silversheltie said:



			This is the first time I've ever felt compelled to respond to a forum but you could have been describing my horse.  He's 15 and has been with me for 10 years and intermittently he has always had this quirk. Generally he's a lovely horse with a wonderful temperament who hasn't got an ounce of malice in him.  I've had all the usual suspects, saddle, teeth, back etc regularly checked but after his initial humping of his back he settles down and behaves normally. The problem gets worse in the winter months so I always ride him with an exercise sheet to keep his back warm and this seems to help a little.  It is also much worse if we are at a new venue for either lessons or competitions.  In the warm summer months when he has lots of turnout he can go for weeks on end without any problems provided I mount him in the arena but if I get on at the mounting block on the yard which means we're going for a hack he'll do it again.  All these factors have led me to conclude that its most likely between his ears.  Over the years we've had chiro's, accupuncture, massage and even invested in an equissage the vet has also checked him over but no one can find anything wrong its just been put down to "cold backed".  I've now decided to request an appointment at a local vet hospital to get x rays and scintography done so I hope I'll finally be able to get to the bottom of it.  Although to date he never has exploded with me its still a horrible feeling as though he is trying to run away from his rider and there is absolutely nothing I can do to about it until he has had his little moment and got it out of his system.  I'll be following your posts with great interest to see how you get on.
		
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Thats REALLY interesting!! Whereabouts are you btw?


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## Caol Ila (14 June 2012)

Can't say I've had mounting problems with my mare so I can't help you there, but I just thought the comments about Shires and Shire crosses being quirky, sensitive souls interesting.  My horse (like yours) is Shire/TB and while she hasn't any issues remotely like the ones yours has, she's a character and certainly quirky and sensitive.  Fabulous horse, though.


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## Silversheltie (15 June 2012)

I'm in Hertfordshire and my horse has been referred to the Newmarket Vet Hospital for Monday 25th.  He's a Hannovarian X thoroughbred.


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## Auslander (17 June 2012)

Update!! Had to bring Alf in the other day, after just two days in his new field, with friends. They turned a new horse out next to him, and he got himself in a complete state of hysteria - belting up and down the hedge, threatening to jump the gate and generally being a prat! Was worried about his stifle, so caught him, and had a hell of a job bringing him in - he'd completely lost the plot!
I gave him some Rescue Remedy when I got him in, then another dose in the morning - and when I got him out to ride him, he stidd like a complete lamb to get on - no sign of tension/nerves/general fliddishness, and then worked calmly in the school without spooking at the mounting block/jumps/threatening bits of tree... 
He was the same this morning, after another shot of RR. I only gave it to him as a 'just in case' thing - never really used it before, and am sceptical about such things. Am wondering if its coincidence, or whether I need to consider eating my hat!!

Stuck him on a calmer yesterday, and will give him a week to let that start working before trying to put him out with his buddies again. He's very happy in his stable, and just coming out to graze in hand/work. I on the other hand am quite grumpy about having to muck out!!


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## Silversheltie (17 June 2012)

That sounds quite incredible I've heard wonderful things about the RR because they've been suggested for me!!! I'm not the bravest of riders  I too am quite sceptical about them so will be very interested to hear how you get on this week.  

I tried another tactic with my boy yesterday, he was lunged for a short time before I attempted to get on him then my husband stood at the mounting block and walked along beside me feeding him a few treats, this seemed to completely take his mind off things and he was no problem at all.  It's so confusing wondering if I'm doing the right thing in having the x rays and scintography because this suggests the problem is all in his head but I know that once the weather turns cold and he's kept in for longer periods it will start all over again.


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## Auslander (17 June 2012)

Silversheltie said:



			That sounds quite incredible I've heard wonderful things about the RR because they've been suggested for me!!! I'm not the bravest of riders  I too am quite sceptical about them so will be very interested to hear how you get on this week.  

I tried another tactic with my boy yesterday, he was lunged for a short time before I attempted to get on him then my husband stood at the mounting block and walked along beside me feeding him a few treats, this seemed to completely take his mind off things and he was no problem at all.  It's so confusing wondering if I'm doing the right thing in having the x rays and scintography because this suggests the problem is all in his head but I know that once the weather turns cold and he's kept in for longer periods it will start all over again.
		
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It is very odd. If his behaviour was pain related, I would have thought he would have been more likely to do it after his shenanigans in the field - he was very stiff yesterday morning - silly old git!! I almost didn't work him, but thought a bit of walking might loosen him up - and it did.

I tried the treats thing with him, but when he is having one of his moments, he's so tense that he isn't remotely interested in food. 

I think you're right to have him investigated - if you dont, and can't rule out pain - you'll always be wondering. I'm going to carry on throwing all the diagnostics/treatments I can at him, with the objective of having him as sound and comfortable as he can be.


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## IsabelleJ (17 June 2012)

Hmm, worth maybe trying a week with RR and then a week without? Very interesting though, goes back to those Shires being worriers comments.

I would love Sidney to get to GP, but at the age of 14 I think Medium is a bit more realistic! Been thinking about the worried Shire x thing though, and he is a very very anxious traveller. Gets worried as soon as he sees the trailer - not that I blame him, as he had a bad couple of years where he was in more and more pain from a bony spur on the coffin joint that we didn't know about. This ended with him falling over in the trailer one day  Bless him, he is good as gold and loads first time, but you can see him stressing 

The Sidders does have a bad habit of charging around the field every now and then, usually when it's hard ground, just to worry me!!

Sounds like you are getting on a bit better, will be really interesting to see your progress.

Isabelle


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## Auslander (17 June 2012)

IsabelleJ said:



			Hmm, worth maybe trying a week with RR and then a week without? Very interesting though, goes back to those Shires being worriers comments.

I would love Sidney to get to GP, but at the age of 14 I think Medium is a bit more realistic! Been thinking about the worried Shire x thing though, and he is a very very anxious traveller. Gets worried as soon as he sees the trailer - not that I blame him, as he had a bad couple of years where he was in more and more pain from a bony spur on the coffin joint that we didn't know about. This ended with him falling over in the trailer one day  Bless him, he is good as gold and loads first time, but you can see him stressing 

The Sidders does have a bad habit of charging around the field every now and then, usually when it's hard ground, just to worry me!!

Sounds like you are getting on a bit better, will be really interesting to see your progress.

Isabelle
		
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He's kiboshed things a bit by going unlevel as a result of his shenanigans in the field (I was totally expecting it after he was stiff yesterday) He's not exactly lame, but not exactly sound, so have just mooched around the footpaths in hand today, eaten lots of grass (him) and caught the sun (me). The yards tame osteo was up in her non official capacity - she had a quick look at him which confirmed that he's tweaked  his left (problem) stifle, and she's shown me a massage technique which makes him go all gooey. He is a SILLY OLD FOOL!!
He's having Easy Joint, Supercalm and Riaflex Devils Alternative, and eating it quite happily which amazes me - he's only getting a handful of chaff, and it smells very odd with all the gubbins in it!


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## TarrSteps (17 June 2012)

Well, whatever else happens, he's clearly landed on his feet.


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## Auslander (17 June 2012)

TarrSteps said:



			Well, whatever else happens, he's clearly landed on his feet.  

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Yeah! Spoilt brat!! I was never this much of a sap when I was working with horses full time!!

He's worth it - he's such a nice person. I'm a sucker for a horse that whickers every time it sees you walk across the yard!! I know its carrot related, but its still lovely!


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## Mike007 (17 June 2012)

Silversheltie said:



			That sounds quite incredible I've heard wonderful things about the RR because they've been suggested for me!!! I'm not the bravest of riders  I too am quite sceptical about them so will be very interested to hear how you get on this week.  

I tried another tactic with my boy yesterday, he was lunged for a short time before I attempted to get on him then my husband stood at the mounting block and walked along beside me feeding him a few treats, this seemed to completely take his mind off things and he was no problem at all.  It's so confusing wondering if I'm doing the right thing in having the x rays and scintography because this suggests the problem is all in his head but I know that once the weather turns cold and he's kept in for longer periods it will start all over again.
		
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You are a very thoughtfull rider and have been hiding your light under a bushell ,as they say. Only 3 posts to your name but I find what you have to say interesting. Please post more.


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## SaharaS (18 June 2012)

Not read all the posts so forgive me if I interrupt & you've solved it by now! My gut instinct says pain or fear of pain. One of my mares had a similar quirk but it was vertical rearing & usually going over backwards, we came to the conclusion, having a very traceable history of breeder, trainer then me, we figured out she simply presumed all pain would feel like her accident even if it was a twinge caused by a spook or the fact she was2-3 months into fittening (slowly etc etc after resting her after treatment & giving her some time off to chill) and her muscles were pushed to the next gentle stage & she'd feel it & react.To be fair she had been brought down coming over a chase fence when the horse beside her fell & then she was landed on by several others...just they forgot to tell me any of this till i specifically asked. I'd get a physio out even if you've already had his back looked at (- before anyone jumps on me, I know some back ladies will only do backs) I presume his teeth are ok? again if its a really ingrained habbit it simply could be a bad experience at some stage of his life that he associates & will for ever more. I hope you get him comfy & sorted safely


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## Auslander (18 June 2012)

SaharaS said:



			I'd get a physio out even if you've already had his back looked at (- before anyone jumps on me, I know some back ladies will only do backs) I presume his teeth are ok? again if its a really ingrained habbit it simply could be a bad experience at some stage of his life that he associates & will for ever more. I hope you get him comfy & sorted safely

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I am still not convinced it is pain. My gut instinct is that its between his ears. He does have a known physical issue (DJD in passenger side stifle) but he's very stoic about pain, so I don't think this reaction is because he's twinging. He comes across as very laid back, but under the surface, he's very sharp, and reactive - he'll wander around with the rope over his neck like a large dog, but will jump 6 feet in the air and snort like a dragon if someone sneezes, then he turns into a dope on a rope again! 

I'm throwing as much investigation/treatment at him as I can anyway, as I want to give him a comfortable future - and I'm not comfortable riding him til I know whats going on.

Do read it all - there have been some really interesting posts, and its given me much food for thought. The response to this post is the reason I like HHO!

Firstly - the horse was very well looked after in his previous home - all service items (vaccinations/worming/teeth/physio) carried according to schedule! 

Brief sum up of all the activity that is planned for him. Saddle fitter coming today , then at some point over the next few weeks, he will be thermal imaged, before being treated with a range of different machines as a case study project. He had a brief session with an osteopath yesterday, who will come back and do some cranial work with him, and I also intend to call on the services of a McTimoney practitioner (who was recommended to me by a HHO'er), and Anna Johnson, the physio who used to do my old horse.


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## Archangel (18 June 2012)

I have a horse like this.  He came to me as an unrideable mess.  I just could not work out whether it was taking the mick, fear or pain.  We unravelled most of his issues but he was always tricky for the first few minutes.  I honestly lost count as to how many times I had his back checked and pronounced that there was nothing wrong 

The matter was solved once and for all with an xray (after one crashing fall too many for me).  He was not suitable to operate so was retired on the spot.  Very sad, he had become such a brilliant horse.  Ironically, he cannot be ridden but is quite happy pinging a five bar gate when he feels like it


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## Auslander (18 June 2012)

Saddle has been ticked off the list. Saddle fitter came out today, and after much inspection, pronounced that it fitted as if it was made to measure, and didn't even need flocking. Most pleased. Still an expensive exercise, as I had mentally prepared myself for a big spend on either getting the saddle right, or a new saddle - so I had him measured up for a new bridle instead!!


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## Silversheltie (19 June 2012)

I've just been informed by my insurance company that if the vet hospital fails to find anything wrong my horse through the x rays and the scintography they won't pay for the tests but I can't rule out a physical problem without them, looks like this is going to be an expensive month


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## Auslander (19 June 2012)

Silversheltie said:



			I've just been informed by my insurance company that if the vet hospital fails to find anything wrong my horse through the x rays and the scintography they won't pay for the tests but I can't rule out a physical problem without them, looks like this is going to be an expensive month 

Click to expand...

Oh Lord - that sucks a lot! Good on you for carrying on regardless though.


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## Auslander (6 July 2012)

Bit of an update on the loopy one! This last week, he seems to have finally settled. The mad spooking in hand has stopped, he's coping far better with being out in the big fields, and he's decided that the mare he fell in love with isn't really that interesting any more.
Physically, he's put on a bit of weight, and lost the heave lines that were a permanent feature in the first month he was here. I think he was holding a lot of tension underneath - sucking his stomach up.
I promised him a months holiday when he arrived, then couldn't resist getting on him, and in hindsight, I think that was a mistake. Almost a month to the day that he came off th elorry, he has suddenly reverted to the chilled out horse that I first went to see - and I'm delighted that he's so relaxed. 
He has his big vet assessment on Thursday, and the vet wants to see him ridden, so I'm going to bring him in, knock some mud off him, and start riding him gently tomorrow. I could be wrong, but I have a feeling he's going to be just fine. 
Hes turned into a bit of a snogger too - big slobbery ones, and usually just after dinner when his nose is caked in calm&condition!


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## dafthoss (6 July 2012)

Fab news  hope he continues to be the chilled chap you went to view and that theres nothing physically wrong with him.


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## ChestnutMonty (7 July 2012)

Ah this is so interesting, I have exactly the same problem with my 6yo KWPN, i've had him just over a year and he was sold as green and quirky and i got a 'bargain'... :/ He has been vet checked, back, teeth and sees an osteo 4/5 times a year. On the 2nd viewing the groom let slip that he had bucked her off but she thinks it was cold backed. He didn't like being mounted and would have to get leg ups at first and be quick, then you had try and keep him still once you were on otherwise he would buck like billyo!! He's had me off a few times doing this, once you fall off he keeps going for a couple of minutes, i cannot ride him without a gel pad or he refuses to trot and try and leave him tacked up for a good 10mins before i get on, lunging before also helps him. He got over being mounted after 1-2months of being with me and now stands beautifully still, but sometimes he will put his back up straight away and just have to stand talk to him, give him a pat and wait 20secs-2mins until he takes a deep breath and relaxs, then you can walk on and hes absolutely cracking to ride. Until April he'd completley got over his back issue and hadn't put up his back for weeks.. then i had a fall at Larkhill on xc and broke my ankle, 2 days later my instructor (who had ridden him 3/4 times before) got on and within minutes had her off... So we decided to turn him away until i had recovered. Since then hes been really good apart from 2 occasions, one i mananged to control and make him stand until he relaxed and another where he had me off. Highly recommend air jackets for this!! He now seems to have settled again. I had a lesson with OT last year and he was the second person who has now said to me that he believes this horse has most definately been beaten  Whatever happened something from his breaking troubles him. Hopefully it will be something he grows out of, as otherwise he's a cracking little event horse


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