# No brakes... Help please



## sll498 (2 November 2013)

I attended my first ever hunt in the week with my 11 year old IDx.

The first 20 minutes or so were rather enjoyable, she stood in the field awaiting the hounds, got a little excited on the off, popped a few fences and was generally well behaved. The field made a wrong turn and suddenly we went from being at the back/middle of the field, to being at the front, with horses overtaking her and something swithced in her. We suddenly had no brakes!

No matter what I did she was a nightmare and just wouldnt listen. I felt like a total passenger and the experience was terrifying - so much so, im scared to take her out again.

She's green for her age. When i bought her in June, she was ridden in a dutch gag on the bottom ring, but with consistent schooling, she is now in a snaffle at all times.

We compete at novice dressage and do well, and she sj and xc/ODE at 80-90 cm. I trust her to have a good gallop when out on hacks and she can get a bit strong but have never really had a breaking issue before.

Because I wasnt sure how she would be, I used her gag on the snaffle ring and took second reins ready just in case. No combination worked, and even with double reins, she just pulled and refused to even listen. so much so that she fell over rounding a corner and I still couldnt stop her.

Im really reluctant to up scale her bit to a harsher one, but need to do something as she just wasnt safe. The field master suggested a cheltenham gag, and my saddler has recommended a kineton noseband.

Her back, saddle and teeth have all been checked in the last month... any suggestions would be gratedully received. I would liek to be able to take her out again. despite the braking issue, she really enjoyed it. I would just like t enjoy it too!


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## Doormouse (2 November 2013)

Brakes for hunting are real trial and errror but if you are confident you have good hands then I would go for more than you might need.

I hate those dutch gags, I think they put alot of pressure on their poll and probably give them a headache after a while if they constantly pull against it. You could try a pelham, vulcanite, rubber or metal with a small port or a running gag with 2 reins or even a double bridle which allows you to ride off the snaffle rein most of the time but use the curb as brakes only when you need it.


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## JenHunt (2 November 2013)

I agree with Doormouse! and My IDx will lock his neck, set his jaw and then take his own course (usually at speed!) in a dutch gag!

You need to persevere with her, and experiment with bits/feed/exercise combinations... what works for one won't necessarily work for another. Ron now goes in a double bridle for the first 10 days (so I've got the curb when he's being a tit) and his snaffle after that, and only gets fibre (no cereals).... some need a good 3 mile hack to a meet, and hard work the day before!

don't let it put you off! I'm guessing that she's a very smart horse who's decided it's fun (and she's not wrong!) rather than a scaredy cat who's got spooked? go again, have a good hack there, aim to get to the meet only shortly before they move off, and try a different bit


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## L&M (2 November 2013)

I would be tempted to try a double bridle or cheltenham gag.......being out of control out hunting is no fun.

My hw cob goes best in a vulcanite pelham - he is really strong in anything else but goes sweetly in this.

It is really trial and error, but you may find the more you hunt, the calmer the horse will be, so can downgrade your bitting as you go.

Good luck and hope you find a solution.


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## snowstormII (3 November 2013)

I had this problem yesterday too, so very reassuring to read your story.

I stupidly went out with a green 6 year old, only ever done a fast hack in a big group for which he was brilliant, but not proper hunting before.  Day to day he is sweet in a french link snaffle.  I am loathe to up the bit too much as he has a relatively soft mouth normally.  I will try putting a drop noseband or flash on as he was just yawing his mouth open which meant I had no influence.  Thanks to a friend and her lovely pony who didn't mind me crashing in to his bum to stop, I lasted for 2 hours!!


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## Bernster (4 November 2013)

You do tend to see quite an array of kit out hunting.  I'd rather have more than I need and use it sparingly than not enough and have a battle.

Mine's going nicely in a universal on the bottom ring, leather curb, flash and running martingale.  I don't feel confident enough for 2 reins and she didn't like the pelham that I tried her in.  She goes really nicely in this, I barely need any contact but I can pull her up when I need to.

Also helps to work out how your horse likes to hunt i.e. if yours is better at the back then try and maintain that.  Mine's better up front.  Apart from complete nutters, they all seem to slow down when the ones in front do though, so I've never really had an issue with brakes in the field, it's more to slow her down into a fence so she doesn't run through the rider in front !

I also think they either settle after a few hunts once they know their job, or go mental and you realise you don't have a natural hunter !  I reckon you will be in the former ;-)


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## marioscelba (5 November 2013)

Thanks for sharing very useful info.


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## sarah164 (5 November 2013)

I know how you feel, no brakes is not much fun! I've always been a fan of the cheltenham gag either with one or two reins, I find they tend to keep there head up it is rather than sticking it between their knees and tanking. This is a strong bit but in the right hands it's fine and tbh I'd think you're better off with something like that which the horse should respect rather than have them tank around with you all day. It really is trial and error though, I have a similar problem with my 4yr old now about knowing what to put her in as lovely soft mouth usually, took her hunting in a snaffle for the first time and fine most of the day till the end where she got tired and stroppy and threw her head all over the place and I had no control!


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## Tern (5 November 2013)

I like the pelham, with rounding or two reins


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## Mimi2610 (6 November 2013)

I put the really strong horses in a cheltenham gag with a grackle noseband and that seems to be OK although their owners are men who don't seem to mind being run off with. I stopped hunting my own mare as she was impossible to stop, no combination seemed to work and often ended up ahead of the Fieldmaster. Very disappointing as she is extremely bold and a awesome jumper but it just wasn't fun!


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## AliceCrail (7 November 2013)

I feel your pain! I took my 'keen, but controllable' mare team chasing on Sunday where she just ******ed off. Ended
up leading her back from the furthest field. She was in a copper French link and grackle. 
I have ordered her a hanging cheek Waterford, and may add a kineton to that if still needing some help. She grabbed hold of the bit, head down and tanked, so hoping the waterford will stop her taking a hold.


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## Goldenstar (7 November 2013)

OP do want the horse as a hunter or do you want to compete with hunting as an add on ?
I ask this because if a horses job is to be a hunter then you just have to fiddle about and hope you find something that works .
But if it's to compete I be tended to think huntings not for this one .
You need to indroduce hunting carefully to a horse that's not hunted.


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## HazyXmas (7 November 2013)

I feel for you, it must have been terrifying.

I agree with Goldenstar, hunting needs introducing very carefully, usually with quite a few days of quiet cubbing.

Lots of standing around, trotting as a group up set aside, that sort of thing is great for getting them used to everything without the 'fully charged' atmosphere of 'proper' hunting. You really want her to think it's pretty boring! 

Not sure where you can go from here, she might be even worse second time out as she now knows what to expect.


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## Goldenstar (7 November 2013)

It's my experiance that if the first time is scary you're in for a rocky time .
They almost always get worse before they get better .
I have started one this time he had nine totally quiet days before he was allowed a sniff of any jumping or fun .
He had a bit of excitement last time out next time it be boring with a nanny for company .
I won't consider him 'made ' until this time next year.


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## Ditchjumper2 (7 November 2013)

Goldenstar said:



			It's my experiance that if the first time is scary you're in for a rocky time .
They almost always get worse before they get better .
I have started one this time he had nine totally quiet days before he was allowed a sniff of any jumping or fun .
He had a bit of excitement last time out next time it be boring with a nanny for company .
I won't consider him 'made ' until this time next year.
		
Click to expand...

Agree with this. You have to make a hunter. Ours start off toddling at the back. Learning to stand and wait and watch. Learning that when everyone goes off they wait until told to go. Learning to go off in the other direction when required and away from the others. Then they can go to the middle and back to the back, and the same with the front.

We want hunters that will hunt back, middle and front and go off on their own and whip in. Even the cob when necessary. It will take you a season but is well worth it.

When cantering sedately others often ask why I am going steady at the back...I reply sweetly...because I can


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## kentridingclubber (10 November 2013)

Excellent topic with such interesting answers.

OP although not quite to your degree I had a similar thing happen Saturday.  My horse is on his third time out, 2 cubbing mid week I.e.very quiet and this was his first proper day. He pulls but struggles to accept strong bits (the type to throw his head and leap in a panic if over bitted ) so   I put him in a Waterford snaffle and aim was to stay at the back, get some good behaviour and go home.  Well I had my eureka moment got him going super and then the field turned and came straight at us!  Was on headland so I couldn't get out the way to maintain my position nearer the back so hurtled along with a few pointers (oh joy he now believes he is one too! ) I had little to no control or brakes but thankfully he did pull up with everyone else and I regained control.  

Im going to have to try some other combinations out! 

I find it very interesting  the comments re a hunter or a comp/rc horse that hunts. Mine is the latter. I can usually see the difference when I go out and am trying to watch and learn the methods of producing a mannerly ride as having back ache for days after is not really my idea of a good time but im hoping we will finish the season better educated. 

Good luck if when you go again.


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## Holloa (8 December 2013)

I introduced my boy to hunting when he was 9. Prior to hunting he had always been a snaffle mouth from what I was told.
It took 2 seasons to get some drinks and nibbles at the meet, and two seasons to find the brakes, trying various combinations of bits.... In the end my life saver was a Cheltenham gag. I was able to take a check and then give back and he respected it. I wasn't tugging on his mouth constantly. Good luck with it.


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## tootsietoo (8 December 2013)

Cheltenham gags, often with grakles, seem to be a popular option out hunting.  I used one on my IDxTB who was pretty dead mouthed, and it worked.  Very few people use 2 reins, just put the rein on the gag loop, but I know someone who puts a pair of pony reins on the gag loop, so she can ride on the snaffle rein and the gag reins just sit there on the neck until she needs to pick them up.

Such a relief to hear the views on starting a hunter.  I'm starting a 6 yr old ex-racehorse this season and was a bit despondent after yesterday as he got very strong by about 2pm (no doubt tired) and, staying at the back, I ended up way behind as I just couldn't let him stretch out at all because I would have lost control!  I must remember to relax and not expect too much for this season apart from polite behaviour at the back!


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## chesnutty (9 December 2013)

I am having the same trouble OP.

I have a big 17.2 ISH, who has a huge neck and is VERY strong. I've taken him about 5 times this season (he went a few times last season too), but find myself with no brakes - he puts his head down and b*ggers off without a moments hesitation, very scary and embarrassing! 

However, this week I got his actual owner (I ride for an amateur whip and he has given me Harvey for the season) to take him out on Tuesday. He was strong in the field but perfectly behaved up front. Then I took him out on Saturday and he allowed me to keep his head up and keep him collected, he was still strong but I had some control rather than just yanking. So, not sure if the change was because he went twice in one week or because of the experience of Tuesday - or maybe he just decided to give me an easy day?! Will let you know on Saturday 

He is in a loose ring waterford now for hunting, hacking and schooling he is in a copper roller snaffle. Waterford stops him leaning, he is 10 x lighter on the hands in the waterford. I have also been recommended the Kineton noseband - so if you try it please keep us updated, would love to see how it works!


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## Bubbles (9 December 2013)

Having been bolted with at my first autumn hunt a couple of years back, I've been building up to taking by lad out this season. I have him in a Nelson gag with two reins and I can stop in that. I echo what everyone else has said though, I've worked hard to make my lad (and myself!) by going autumn hunting on days when I was told it would be quiet, and before I did that I practiced cantering in company, in front, middle and back. First couple of times out, not so bad, third and fourth, wild and I was congratulated for staying on, I knew I was in trouble when the huntsman winked at me and instructed me to sit tight with a chuckle   And then he's got better and better. We had our first proper meet last weekend and he was just awesome. Not great queuing for gaps/ditches etc., but becoming more sensible about it. 
Take him again but work him really hard in the week up to it, bit him up, and cut down any hard feed.


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## PFM22 (10 December 2013)

Highly recommend the Universal Waterford - my boy sticks his nose on the florr and just gallops, flat out in anything but. In this bit he is controlled, polite and you dont need to hang onto the mouth, just take a pull here and there. I combine it with a mexican noseband which works for me but obviously go with whatever noseband your horse needs. You can either us single or double reins or use roundings... defo worth playing around with. I use a snaffle in my boy at all other times but swear by this for hunting! Neue Schule make it but there is another company who sell their won brand about £30 cheaper (this is what mine is, bought on ebay).


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