# Haylage & Behaviour Change (especially thoroughbreds)



## happyhorsey (10 November 2011)

Hi Everyone, grateful for any experience or thoughts you may having&#8230;

I purchase a new 9yo thoroughbred gelding 5 months ago, and I&#8217;d no problems until a month ago.  Had him checked by the vet yesterday and everything was fine, his teeth, back and hoofs have all been recently done and all fine.  Until a month ago, he&#8217;d have stood untied and let me groom, pick out his feet and tack him up, and I don&#8217;t hand feed. He was the perfect gent 

About a month ago he bit me badly for the first time &#8211; no apparent reason but stitches required :-(, since then things have just got worse.  Attempts to kick and biting all the time, I make sure to stay well clear.  I don&#8217;t hit him but shout and he will usually behave for a short time after.  Although tonight I couldnt even pick his feet out :-(

His field friends are all the same as when he arrived, he&#8217;s a good routine, so I&#8217;m at my wits end&#8230;  Only thing I can think that&#8217;s change is the yard moved from hay to haylage for winter about the same time as the behaviour change started&#8230;.  The yard isn&#8217;t keen on me bringing in my own.  

Has anyone else experienced problems with haylage????  Really could use some help and advice.  Many thanks


----------



## vetsbestfriend (10 November 2011)

What type of haylage is it?  Is it high fibre or very rich haylage?  Have you noticed a change in his droppings i.e. that he is more loose or that he is more sensitive around his tummy area?  Has any thing else changed i.e. reduced turnout, swapped fields to richer winter grazing?

It is possible that the haylage is upsetting his stomach which in turn is making him grumpier.  Couple of things that I would do if in your situation.  Firstly try him back on hay, gradually swapping over to hay over a period of about a week, to see if that helps.  Or possibly try a good pre/pro biotic.

If it continues, I would be contacting my vet again to see if it was worthwhile getting him scoped.

Good luck.


----------



## happyhorsey (10 November 2011)

My horses have all previously been on hay but I feel its quite a rich haylage although I'm no expert and its provided by the yard.  Nothing else has changed...  

My gut instinct is to move back to hay as you've suggested.  

thanks for your advice


----------



## Tnavas (10 November 2011)

I've never noticed a difference in mine. I would suggest that he may have had a fall in the paddock and has put something out of alignment.

Maybe have a chiro out to look him over. Check all your gear still fits well. Have you increased his feed in any way or changed brands?


----------



## happyhorsey (10 November 2011)

thanks for your response   He was checked by the vet yesterday with no signs of any problems, back and saddle done 2 weeks... His feed nor quantity have changed, just the move onto haylage just over a month ago.


----------



## deicinmerlyn (10 November 2011)

He may have ulcers and the haylage will definately make it much worse as it is acidic.


----------



## happyhorsey (10 November 2011)

Thanks for your reply deicinmerlyn!  If his tummy was sore or he had ulcers, is this something the vet could have picked up??  I know the vet felt him all over but said he could find anything wrong and hes is great condition...  This past month has seen such a change in the little guys behaviour - just know from past experience something isnt right.


----------



## Honey08 (10 November 2011)

Has anything happened with his turnout - has he recently started coming in at night, or earlier?

My mare gets a bit like this in the thick of winter when she has to stay in a lot more due to the clay and her getting cracked heals easily..

My mare does react to high quality haylage - and other things with high sugar content, such as sugarbeet.  She comes up in heatbumps.  She is fine on the pretty low quality stuff we make though.


----------



## happyhorsey (10 November 2011)

Turnout still the same, out between 8 and 9am and back in at 3:30pm.  Our yard is great for turnout.  Thanks for your response.  I had also contacted his previous owner, whos a friend of the family - who never had this problem previously but lives 150 miles away so cant visit.


----------



## Wilbur_Force (10 November 2011)

Is he in a good routine, eg. knows exactly when he's going to be fed, come in from the field etc?  You're still in the early days of a relationship really.  Is he at the bottom of the pecking order in the field? He may be trying to stamp down his authority and if he's unable to in the field, then perhaps he's turning to you?  I know that with my horse, if he has rich haylage then he gets a little narked, but mainly because his droppings go loose and it makes him a little uncomfortable.  Go through everything in your head and see if there's a trigger for his behaviour


----------



## happyhorsey (10 November 2011)

Thanks Wilbur_Force, i've been trying to rule everything out.  Hes had the same field mates for 5 months now and no field issues, hes not top or bottom in the field and i have spent hours watching him at grass to make sure.  I've had everything checked and my final thought was maybe the haylage...  

Such a reaction on haylage seems a bit to hard to believe but i can honestly think of nothing else, and his routine is good and he seemed to be loving it until a month ago...

Will try the move back to hay and if that doesnt work, then I'll bring in an equine behaviourist...  he was such a great lad we came 3rd and 1st in his first ever dressage comps, was a complete angel previously and so easy to work with. Compared with my previous horses, I had that feeling he was one in a million, my horse of a lifetime, so i'll do everything i can to help the little guy.


----------



## millimoo (10 November 2011)

Hi OP, i think from memory you said he was being left without a haynet for hours when bought it.
As another post has suggested, if he has ulcers this woe give him bad tummy ache alongside the Hayledge too.
He would need to be scoped, but you could try a Hayledge balancer in the meantime... There's a specific supplement for this.
Just out of interest, did he behave for the vet?
Hole you get to the bottom of it soon, but I'd definitely be looking for ulcers


----------



## millimoo (10 November 2011)

Sorry about all the spelling mistakes... Predictive text on my iPhone is atrocious tonight!!!


----------



## happyhorsey (10 November 2011)

Hi millimoo, I make sure he has haylage left in his stable for when he comes in everyday.  The yard apologised for the fault on their part.  And I've a few friends at the yard who now check on him everyday for me too.  

As for the vet check he was still trying to kick and nip.  In case it was me, i'd also previously asked the yard manager to work with him in the stable but she gave up and came out.  He's more relaxed with me than anyone else but still a very grumpy boy.


----------



## millimoo (11 November 2011)

Glad his missed hayledge was an oversite and not the norm  I mentioned the Hayledge Balancer - if he's having gut problems / or has an ulcer it may be having an effect... although never had a need for it myself as our Hayledge is quite dry/light (Fulmart)

If you're not keen to get him scoped yet, it may be worth trying something like this, as they quote the following:

Haylage Balancer contains all the nutritional support your horse needs to maintain a healthy, happy gut capable of digesting his haylage intake to keep him comfortable and settled right through the winter months...

Feed daily to balance a haylage based diet which will help to settle the gut, particularly when the horse appears unsettled, irritable and uncomfortable

May be a possible option - that or he's just grumpy... but a good sign he's better with you than everyone else

http://www.supplementsolutions.co.u...r-3-6kg.html?gclid=CKKnwNjUrqwCFQRP4QodnCtcGg


----------



## not_with_it (11 November 2011)

If he does have a sore tummy from the haylage then google coligone. Give Kate a ring, shes really helpful and will happily chat to you about his issues.


----------



## L&M (11 November 2011)

We had a haylage bale that had a wetter section (more fermented?) in the middle - it smelt fine and the horses loved it, but did notice all of them became a little more 'wired' for a few days after. Could just be a co-incidence, but they have all returned to normal now.

Hope you find the cause!


----------



## sonjafoers (11 November 2011)

I am having a similar issue with my 7/8 TB although not quite as extreme as yours. 

I did think it was due to a supplement I feed her but I have taken her off it and am still having problems, so I have wondered if it's down to haylage.

She gets the same haylage all year round but the volume has significantly increased recently and we have some behavioural issues. In the past I have used an expensive antacid supplement with no change but I'm now trying Zeolite rather than the Haylage Balancer as I didn't want a vit/min supplement.

It's made by Keratex and is a sort of clay which mops up the toxins/acid in their system. It's really cheap and so I didn't mind trying it and although it's early days it does seem to be making a difference. 

Good luck, I hope you reach a solution.


----------



## YasandCrystal (11 November 2011)

deicinmerlyn said:



			He may have ulcers and the haylage will definately make it much worse as it is acidic.
		
Click to expand...

^^ This. Mine gets the same, he has previously had and been treated for ulcers. He had an unknown lameness problem causing him a lot of pain too. He would bite kick and strike - I bear the scars. He was treated for ulcers. Temperament changed to sweet easy horse.

I feed him a sugar and cereal intolerant diet. Recently gave him haylage as it is not a rich batch and my help started giving him apples and he acquired a taste for the copious windfall acorns. His temperament changed and he became really grumpy (not quite as aggressive as before). I am convinced the change was the diet change - he is now back on hay - no apples and on a course of green clay to rebalance his gut. 

My advice would be feed him cereal free and hay and see if there is an improvement. Not all horses can tolerate haylage - surely your yard must understand that?

I notice a poster suggested Zeolite - you can buy that very cheaply - sounds like a good tip:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ZEOLITE-P...auty_Vitamins_Supplements&hash=item27b9fa84d9


----------



## Tammytoo (11 November 2011)

Haylage sends my tb loopy, as does sugar beet.  I would def. try and change him back to hay and also feed Brewers Yeast which is very good for digestion and also has a calming effect on horses.

If nothing you do changes his behaviour I would get him scoped for ulcers, this is the only way to diagnose them.  Lots of racehorses have them and if this is the case with yours, the haylage will certainly aggravate his discomfort.


----------



## happyhorsey (12 November 2011)

Hi sonjafoers, YasandCrystal & Tammytoo, thank you all so much for your shared experiences and advice.  I'm moving back onto hay tomorrow, so will post details of our results - will also try something for his tummy - will see what our local horsey shop has.  Honestly I'd try anything, completely worried sick over the little guy...  also planning on weighing all his feed stuffs and hay too, just so i know exactly what hes had... fingers crossed :-s


----------



## caramel (12 November 2011)

personally I never feed haylage, sends my boy over the top.

His behaviour changed, became very grumpy, biting when touched, and not wanting to work. I had saddle checked (fine), teeth done, so I checked his back.
I had my lovely equine touch lady out, he was incredibly sore the left hand side. He was biting, swishing his tail and kicking. Not like him at all.
Had vet, trotted him up (sound). felt him all over, said to put him on a bute trial, if no improvement then up to vets for scope/x rays to rule out kissing spine.
Left him, small improvement. 
Left it a bit longer, and he's fine now. Turns out he twisted himself in the field, pulled the muscles in his back. Mine's always the one to charge and throw himself about.

Worth exploring all the options.


----------



## happyhorsey (12 November 2011)

Hi Caramel, thank you for your shared experience and its so lovely to hear you found a solution, hopefully I'll be the same.  

Your description of your horse sounds exactly like Prince - but with having the physio out (who from previous experience is excellent), i'm not sure its muscle related.  But i could be wrong...

I'm changing him back to hay gradually from today and starting to give a probiotic too.  Just one question, when you say haylage sends your boy over the top, can you tell me exactly how?  I mean is he grumpy, aggressive, taking off when you riding?? My past horses were all fine on haylage, never really had a feeding issue with them - but i know not every horse is the same.

Thanks again for your post, very grateful


----------



## JEZA (13 November 2011)

Dear OP
I have had quite a few with marked behaviour change on haylege, eg running through electric fences (previously very quiet horse) and fine once off haylege, difficulty loading and just generally upset, severe nappiness. They were all definitely haylege related as behaviour went back to normal when they went back onto hay!


----------



## happyhorsey (13 November 2011)

Excellent Jeza, this is actually what i wanted to hear.  I've my boy moving back to hay since yesterday, currently mixing it with haylage incase he colics.  The yard think i'm mad, and that it wont work because their haylage is quality stuff - in winter haylage is provided by the yard and in summer, hay (they won't provide hay over winter). I'm just praying this works, so fingers crossed.  thank you so much for your reply, i will post up our results on hay


----------



## MyBoyChe (13 November 2011)

Just caught up with this post.  My TB (who is now 13 but was 9 when I bought him) had a similar reaction on haylage and is also fairly intolerant to sugar.  I bought him in July and he was out 24/7, no extra feed needed and was happy as larry and a complete gent.  Once I started his winter feed regime, haylage and a molassed chaff as part of his hard feed he went completely loopy, bad tempered, couldnt stand still, constantly on edge.  Changed to hay, hifi lite and hi fi cubes, with fast fibre added when the weathers at its worst and he has been fine ever since (now in our 4th winter)  He also has pink powder and brewers yeast added to each feed in very low amounts and this keeps his tummy and his mind calm and settled.  So I definitely think some horses are not tolerant of haylage!!


----------



## happyhorsey (13 November 2011)

MyBoyChe thanks for your post, really appreciated, I hope i've similar results... I post up how we get on )


----------



## templewood (13 November 2011)

One of my PRE stallions becomes very spooky and jumpy when fed haylage and he is usually the most laid back horse in the world. I haven't noticed him being grumpy though!


----------



## Miss L Toe (14 November 2011)

Soak his haylage and check all feeds for cereals, sugars/molasses. 
[Fast Fibre will be the easiest and simplest feed].
I would tie him up for grooming and tacking so he can't get at you, I find a good quick slap is better than shouting if he makes contact.
Growl if he "threatens you". Make sure he is respecting you at all times.
Is he getting enough "real" work?
It may be that he is a bit colicky from time to time due to gobbling grass, the grass changes with the seasons, and if he has a sensitive tummy he might improve with Settlex or Ulcer Calm [Feedmark], the vet checked him on one day, it might have been a "good" day.
When dealing with horses which have changed their behaviour, you have to be sympathetic, I would try light "grooming" with the flat of your hand, this will allow you to feel any sore spots, and if it is his internals he might get fidgety when you "groom" him over his flanks.
Stand back and look at him, is his tummy tense, is the tail whisking, or any other symptoms, some will wrinkle or tense their muzzle.


----------



## happyhorsey (14 November 2011)

Hi MrsD123, thanks for your suggestions - and yes he's been tense, tail whisking and pulling faces - completely not himself!  Hes been on a probiotic and been moving gradually back to hay now for 3 days and im starting to notice a slight improvement (possibly probiotic) - i gave him a quick gentle groom today, his ears were back and pulling faces but he didnt bite or try kicking out. Here's hoping


----------



## little_Christmas_monkey (15 November 2011)

Haylage is full of protein when i had s three yr old who personality changed to the extent i culdnt mount her without her rearing lungin forward then bucking before she hit the ground i automatically got vet dentist and chiropractor out nothin wrong so cut feed of her still no improvement one day i was talkin to a friends farrier  told him the problems suggested that i got the haylage tested so i gave him some and he sent it away for me( culdnt tell u where) the results came back that the haylage was 19 % protein so switched the mare onto hay a huge improvement


----------



## happyhorsey (15 November 2011)

Thank you everyone whos replied so far  I'm currently moving Prince onto hay, today was today 4 of our change over - he's still biting, seems to have stopped kicking, though very pushy - a few little bucks walking to the outdoor, took him in and he was straight into a gallop - the little monkey!  Hes definately not himself but the kicking seems to have stopped, so its a positive so far  and he was ridden well for 2 hours yesterday.


----------

