# Unfixed portables - video of a terrible, tragic fall.



## kerilli (24 March 2011)

This video was sent to me by someone who knows about my concerns re: unfixed portables and the huge danger they pose. I honestly think these are probably THE most dangerous xc fences out there at the moment. 
I've contacted PC, BE, COTH and H&H about this, but there is NO governing body for XC competition and schooling venues, so no way of getting word to every landowner/Organiser/coursebuilder - so, it's down to US, the riders, to bear this in mind, to make a point of asking whether ALL portables are fixed down securely when we book venues for schooling, to check them when walking courses (look for screw-down points and anchors on the front edge (under flowers, dressings perhaps) - shoving the fence isn't enough, you might not be able to shift it but your horse doing 20mph+ might well.)
This video shows how lethal they can be. 
I'm not saying that the portable tipping up is the only reason for what happened, but I think it's a major contributory factor.
This is a horrific fall.
You have been warned. 
Please don't watch it if you are easily upset.
It is already in the public domain, and I have checked that it is okay to post it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BZsk_UL7zM

R.I.P. Elena, taken at 15, far too young.


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## Kelpie (24 March 2011)

dear lord, she didn't stand a chance, did she.... and you couldn't have even said she looked like she was coming into it wrong I don't think......


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## ester (24 March 2011)

RIP Elena, 

from watching that I think the fact that it tipped up did mean that the horse ended up landing where he did. 

It is a point I have previously never considered prior to these threads.


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## dingle12 (24 March 2011)

RIP that makes you feel sick  sadly ive witnessed a fatal fall and it happens so fast  they really need to do something about those fences


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## RuthnMeg (24 March 2011)

No words... 
shocking.
Poor Elena, RIP. x


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## kerilli (24 March 2011)

Agreed. She was riding very nicely, she approached balanced and in rhythm. I think the horse totally misjudged the fence BUT the top rail of the fence started breaking (which you can see clearly if you can bear to pause the vid at 18 secs) and if the fence hadn't tipped, i think the horse would have broken through it, and not rotated over it...  the fence tipping up was definitely a major contributory factor imho.   

this article explains why tipping portables are particularly deadly:
http://eventingnation.com/home/2011/02/eventings-honor-roll-the-one-list-you-dont-want-to-be-on.html


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## NR99 (24 March 2011)

I just can't fathom why more is being done to prevent it. Poor girl RIP my lovely x


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## Lanky Loll (24 March 2011)

The video definitely gets your point across and unfortunately in the worst possible way.
I agree when you say the fence wasn't the only factor in the fall but it tipping seemed to flip the back end up and over.  Had it been fixed they would still have fallen but unlikely to have been in the same way and almost definitely not head over heels.  
Really hope people learn from this.


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## Lolo (24 March 2011)

RIP Elena. 
Fences need fixing. No one in their right mind would jump an open gate, so why an unfixed fence?

kerilli- have pm'd you.


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## Weezy (24 March 2011)

Without wanting to sound flippant about the awful tragedy, that is the perfect video to illustrate the danger portable fences, which are not correctly fixed, hold.  Having stopped/started a few times I think it is safe to say that no person can disclaim that the fact that the fence flipped added to the accident...sure, ***** happens, but I do think the outcome would have been different had the horse hit a solid, fixed fence - in fact I think it would have slipped over it.

A few years ago I walked a XC course with a couple of girls I know - unaff event, well known around these parts...visible from the A40... anyway, we were walking and talking and I lent against a fence, they are small, no more than 2ft6, and the whole thing moved with me.  We were horrified and checked every fence and every one had a wobble.  Suffice to say it was brought to the organiser's attention and they withdrew their entries.


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## thoroughlybred1 (24 March 2011)

Dear God!....poor girl - I wish I hadnt watched, but as you say it is a safety issue that really does need addressing - and let's hope it is!


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## NR99 (24 March 2011)

Been thinking about this a lot. What if on an application form people were encouraged to put something like 'I would like it known that if the portable jumps are not fixed to BE standard then I would like my entry rejected'?


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## WoopsiiD (24 March 2011)

That video is truly shocking.
I'm not up on any of the XC rules or eventing legalities but even I can see (as a happy hacker) that, that jump is dangerous. 
Would weighting the jump help?
Or tethering it like you would a tent help??
-probably daft ideas but better than nowt!


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## ester (24 March 2011)

see 2'6 is the sort of height I would jump weezy, and I would never have thought to question that it was a safety issue, don't know why it had just never occurred to me. I would guess also the sort of height that we are talking non BE fences and possibly more portables.


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## SusieT (24 March 2011)

I personally think it is incredibly wrong/distasteful that this is in the public domain in the first place, this is a young kid and anyone associated I feel would be distressed by seeing this. I see it is a news programme that showed it in the first place, not pleasant.


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## Leg_end (24 March 2011)

That makes for truly awful watching, even more so as it could have been prevented. I know I have never checked the portables when jumping but I definitely will be now. Shocking.


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## Mbronze (24 March 2011)

That is absolutely horrific! there should be some kind of rule brought in. RIP to the poor girl.


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## kerilli (24 March 2011)

thoroughlybred1 said:



			Dear God!....poor girl - I wish I hadnt watched, but as you say it is a safety issue that really does need addressing - and let's hope it is!
		
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Yes, absolutely. I thought long and hard before posting it, I don't want to be accused of sensationalism etc, but I really do think it is VITAL to get the word out, these ******* fences have killed a few riders already, we don't need more deaths to prove the point...

I think these fences all need some kind of a recognised indicator on the front of them, e.g. a tag you can switch from red (Don't Jump) to green (Fine to Jump) so that it is instantly obvious whether they've just been put somewhere, or have been properly anchored down ready to jump...

SusieT, I totally appreciate your point, but I hope you can see why I decided, after a day of worrying about it, that it needed sharing. A few utterly tragic preventable deaths are enough.

WoopsiiD - you're right, they're supposed to be anchored down with screw-in anchors on the take-off side. 

nickirhia99, that's a good idea, definitely.


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## WoopsiiD (24 March 2011)

A green flag on the side when its ready to go maybe?


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## trendybraincell (24 March 2011)

As a dressage diva and XC virgin it is something that would never occur to me...but after seeing that I think to myself...why on earth wouldn't check the safety of what your about to jump?!

It was hard to watch and my thoughts go to the family involved, can only hope organisations will learn from this tragic accident.


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## kerilli (24 March 2011)

WoopsiiD said:



			A green flag on the side when its ready to go maybe?
		
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something like that. but a definite 'not jumpable at the moment' marker too imho...

ester, one of the fatalities happened over a very small fence, 2'6" iirc, but the horse hitting it made it rise by 10".
now, i don't think the very best horse in the world can clear a fence that suddenly gets 10" higher once it has taken off...


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## Zebedee (24 March 2011)

All these places need insurance.
The way to get the message across may be to lobby the insurance companies to refuse to insure if fences aren't secured satisfactorily. How do we know if its been secured properly? It doesn't move when its hit for a start !
Most places these days use BE builders, whether planning to hold BE events or not. It should be part of their remit to educate venue owners - many of whom haven't got a vast background in equestrian competition, & are just diversifying the use of their land.

Education of riders - RC / PC training days explaining what to look for in a safely built XC course.


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## Santa_Claus (24 March 2011)

very much brings the point home RIP Elena 

Ester if it makes you feel better i checked several of the fences at the weekend when schooling and all those i checked were fixed


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## kerilli (24 March 2011)

Santa_Claus said:



			very much brings the point home RIP Elena 

Ester if it makes you feel better i checked several of the fences at the weekend when schooling and all those i checked were fixed 

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Brilliant, that's what we like to hear.
Someone on here said in my other thread that we should start a thread/database about venues which DO fix them down properly. Good idea imho.
So, where was that please?


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## Santa_Claus (24 March 2011)

indeed was Stockland Lovell. i checked far from all jumped but as said all i checked were fixed and it will be impanted in my head to check all venues now!


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## Shrimp (24 March 2011)

trendybraincell - I think though that most of us when we go to an organised venue assume that the jumps are in jumpable condition especially if in a competition - maybe thats naive of me? I know I used to but to be honest I didnt know the dangers of unfixed portables untill recent posts on here. 

RIP Elena


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## Weezy (24 March 2011)

We have an open to the public XC course - 2ft, 2ft 3, 2ft 6 and 3.3ft...we have some portables, built by the man who builds for Blenheim, so good quality...and he himself comes and stakes them all, so I can be assured that they will not move!

The Elmwood Equestrian XC course is located at Weald, near Bampton, OX18


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## now_loves_mares (24 March 2011)

SusieT said:



			I personally think it is incredibly wrong/distasteful that this is in the public domain in the first place, this is a young kid and anyone associated I feel would be distressed by seeing this. I see it is a news programme that showed it in the first place, not pleasant.
		
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I'm largely in agreement with you here, agreed that the fact this was released is very sad. But, and it's an important but, people often look for "meaning" in such an early senseless loss of life. As I read through the thread, I agreed with every poster who said "I've never even thought about this before, I will definitely check every time I'm at schooling venues/unaff comps". TBF, if I had a field of my own and bought a few portables, I don't think I'd even know they had to be fixed down 

So whilst the original posting of this to YouTube is perhaps distasteful, I hope her family may gain some small comfort that her tragic death has maybe, just maybe, saved the lives of countless others. 

RIP Elena


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## Zebedee (24 March 2011)

kerilli said:



			This is a horrific fall.
You have been warned. 
Please don't watch it if you are easily upset.
It is already in the public domain, and I have checked that it is okay to post it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BZsk_UL7zM

R.I.P. Elena, taken at 15, far too young.
		
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Poor poor Elena. 

One has to wonder if there might have been a different outcome had she been wearing an Exo............


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## WoopsiiD (25 March 2011)

I still know next to nothing about xc jumps....but I did have a google session. It cost's as little as £16 to ensure the jump is 'grounded' with an anchor. £16 that could be the difference between horse and rider going home safe or....well....

I think its time that people got together to demand DEMAND!! that safety be put before profit. 
Also still think there should be an early warning system in place to indicate which jumps are anchored and ready to be used.


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## tigerlily12345 (25 March 2011)

WoopsiiD said:



			I still know next to nothing about xc jumps....but I did have a google session. It cost's as little as £16 to ensure the jump is 'grounded' with an anchor. £16 that could be the difference between horse and rider going home safe or....well....
		
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not only one rider, but everyone using them, how many horse knock jumps?! 

also did someone say this is at stockland lovell? :O i would have expected theirs to be BE standards. i never even thought to check the portable jumps before reading this! iwill now!


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## zefragile (25 March 2011)

tigerlily12345 said:



			also did someone say this is at stockland lovell? :O i would have expected theirs to be BE standards. i never even thought to check the portable jumps before reading this! iwill now!
		
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Nobody said that this was at Stockland Lovell.

Awful video, poor girl


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## saz5083 (25 March 2011)

The yard I am on took delivery of a new set or portables a few weeks ago. They are only for use by the liveries and not for hire. After browsing the threads on here I asked the yard owner if they were to be staked down, his response was 'the whole reason we got portables was so they could be easily uplifted and we wouldnt have to.' So I forwarded him the threads on here and mentioned that I for one was not prepared to jump anything that wasnt fixed and I am one of the very few on the yard who would make use of the course. When I saw him yesterday he was toddling off to stake them down 
My lad is moving up to Novice this year, so technically he *shouldnt* be tapping his way round our 2ft9 schooling course, but things can and do go wrong and Im not prepared to risk his safety or mine jumping fences that are not 'fit for purpose.'


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## fleabittengrey (25 March 2011)

I bought a set of half a dozen portables about 5 years ago , for my own personal use, from one of the biggest and most well known manufacturers. 
They never mentionned to me that they should be fixed down, the selling point was that they were moveable.The chap from the company came and helped me located them around the fields, never once mentionned that they should be fixed - in fact its just not something I was ever aware of or made aware of - they are 2'6''-3''. 
I've just been on their website and in very small box there is a link to pony club/british eventing approved stakes, the emphasis being that if you use their jumps for BE/PC events you need the stakes, but not the emphasis on the safety aspect for the private jump owner such as myself. 
I've just now spent nearly the cost of a couple of jumps buying the fixing equipment, a lot of money but I've had my eyes opened by recent threads on here - I wouldn't take my horses over them without protective equipment such as hat, body protector, but I've blindingly missed the most obvious piece of safety equipment.


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## measles (25 March 2011)

Thank you for bringing this important issue to the attention of the associations you have identified and to riders.


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## duckling (25 March 2011)

I'm another who genuinely wouldn't have thought about the safety aspect of portables if I hadn't read these threads  I can't see the video at work but poor poor girl.

As I admin for the facebook page Unaffiliated XC Course Photos (http://www.facebook.com/unaffiliatedxccoursephotos) I feel I should put a note up warning others of this and asking them to check fences whilst they walk the course, particularly considering the fatality of the rider over a 2'6 fence... If anyone would be happy to write something I could post I'd be very grateful - I'm not the most eloquent writer and I'd hate to miss out any of the facts.


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## popsdosh (25 March 2011)

zefragile said:



			Nobody said that this was at Stockland Lovell.

Awful video, poor girl 

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I think to put the record straight this took place in Russia near a town called Perm(not sure of rider gender as the caption describes as 'His horse') and they do not operate there with the same H&S considerations .
That does not mean that it is not a good indicator of what can go wrong when portables are not fixed.


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## Ebenezer_Scrooge (25 March 2011)

Shrimp said:



			trendybraincell - I think though that most of us when we go to an organised venue assume that the jumps are in jumpable condition especially if in a competition - maybe thats naive of me? I know I used to but to be honest I didnt know the dangers of unfixed portables untill recent posts on here.
		
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This^^^^. RIP Elena, a tragic tragic fall that could have been preventable 

I understand Kerilli about your dilemma in posting it but thank you for educating me, I will always check fences in future.


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## Vetwrap (25 March 2011)

I didn't show my husband the clip, as he would never let me near a horse again if he had seen it, but he was astounded that portable fences were not staked down.  It isn't something that I had thought of either, to be honest, but I do wonder now if all courses available for hire have their fences staked.

I know that getting BE and PC to take a positive stance on this would be a major step forward, but as someone who only "plays" on xc courses and doesn't compete atm, getting UK Chasers to adopt this as mandatory for courses registered with them would also be a good thing.


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## ihatework (25 March 2011)

A very interesting thread.

I am on a large yard. We have a XC schooling field in which there are a couple of portables.

These portables were used in a BHS stage 3 exam not long ago. Neither of the portables are fixed down.


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## MissTyc (25 March 2011)

I for one am very glad you posted the video. I feel inside having watched it, but there is a huge difference between reading about a fatality of this type and trying to imagine what happened with the fence, and actually seeing it. Upon seeing it, I do believe the lack of fixation contributed to the severity of the accidence. I don't think I could have imagined it. Imagination wouldn't motivate me to now check fences from now on. 
What a terrible tragedy


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## pedilia (25 March 2011)

That really is shocking, I haven't competively ridden XC for a few years but I do XC school quite often, I had never even thought about the safety aspect of the actual fence other than it being a solid fence as opposed to knock down SJ.
The recent threads on here have made me think, but that video is a real eye opener.


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## kibob (25 March 2011)

Can't bring myself to watch the video but wanted to thankyou for posting it.  I am another one who didn't even realise portable jumps needed anchoring, and now I can't believe my ignorance.  I will be making people aware of this too.  Thanks


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## OldGit (25 March 2011)

Few years ago MG (OH) and I were XC schooling, the horse she was on was very spooky and when trying to jump a small pheasant feeder, he struck it hard and it rolled under his legs. He lost his footing and fell, tipping OH off and he ended up stuck in the upside down fence!!!!

Both rider and horse were fine but a lucky escape, esp having seen that vid. Well done K for highlighting


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## Kenzo (25 March 2011)

From looking at the video a few times, I do think it's pretty clear that because the fence rolled after the collision the poor rider was snagged in the process rather than just the horse landing on top of her (which is bad enough and of course can still cause serious injuries/death) but I think even  if she had was kitted out in the best body protection available I very much doubt it would of made any difference in this case because it looks like death was caused from a break at the neck (?) this may not of been the case if the fence was fixed.

Very tragic indeed, but if lives can be saved by publishing these sort of vidoes (proving the family don't mind) then many lives hopefully will be saved in the future if people sit up and listen and do something about it, also goes to show that fatal accidents can still happen even over smaller courses.

RIP Elena.


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## wench (25 March 2011)

tagging system sounds similar to scafftag system used on building sites...

http://www.scafftag.co.uk/scaffolding/tagging-systems-sca.html


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## kerilli (25 March 2011)

Zebedee said:



			Poor poor Elena. 

One has to wonder if there might have been a different outcome had she been wearing an Exo............
		
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I suspect so. Of course, the Exo doesn't protect the rider's neck or head, so there are no absolute guarantees, but the depth of the Exo might help. I wear my Exo in case of just this kind of worst-case-scenario fall.

To reiterate - this happened at a CNC in Russia, so, an 'affiliated" event. NOT at a U.K. event. 
Stockland Lovell can go on our list of venues which stake all their portables down properly. Thankyou.

Thanks everyone. Let's keep the ball rolling on this. Good idea to contact UK Chasers, hadn't thought of them. I haven't done 1 of their courses for yonks but they all used to be permanent fences. I have a contact at BRC and am already working on that area.

To those who are saying this is distasteful - okay, yes, agreed, but it doesn't show any detail imho, and since it is already public (with, I'm assuming, the poor girl's parents' consent, as youtube is very good about removing vids on request afaik), it's already out there, and immensely valuable to show people what can happen...


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## Perfect_Pirouette (25 March 2011)

That video is horrific and very upsetting. However, it has highlighted the dangers of these fences which can only be a positive.

I XC school and am actually doing a hunter trial next weekend. I will now be checking EVERY SINGLE fence from now on to ensure it doesn't move and if it does, I will not be partaking.

Why on earth after even just one death these sort of fences would still be XC legal is beyond me. XC is dangerous enough as it is without these added dangers. I think if we can all raise awareness enough and perhaps sign a petition maybe it could help to eradicating these types of fences in the long run?

RIP Elena


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## Santa_Claus (25 March 2011)

To clarify, the earlier reference to stockland Lovell was that when xc schooling there last weekend every fence I checked WAS secured.


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## Red30563 (25 March 2011)

Oh dear lord, what a sobering video. Such an innocent looking fence yet so deadly in a split second.

Thank you, OP for starting this thread and helping raise awareness. Let's hope these type of incidents can be prevented in future.

RIP Elena.


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## Saratoga (25 March 2011)

Thank you for posting, I haven't always checked portables, but now I will.


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## Amaranta (25 March 2011)

Dear God, the poor kid did not stand a chance, the video made me gasp in horror.

Well done Kerilli for trying to do something to prevent this from happening to anyone else.

RIP Elena


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## kerilli (25 March 2011)

SummerxStarsx said:



			That video is horrific and very upsetting. However, it has highlighted the dangers of these fences which can only be a positive.

I XC school and am actually doing a hunter trial next weekend. I will now be checking EVERY SINGLE fence from now on to ensure it doesn't move and if it does, I will not be partaking.

Why on earth after even just one death these sort of fences would still be XC legal is beyond me. XC is dangerous enough as it is without these added dangers. I think if we can all raise awareness enough and perhaps sign a petition maybe it could help to eradicating these types of fences in the long run?

RIP Elena
		
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Yes, absolutely. A petition is a good idea but who would it go to? (BE and PC already stipulate that all portables MUST be fixed down securely. I've seen a big horse hit a portable fence at Burnham Market BE very very hard and it didn't move a mm... and the horse stayed on his feet.) There is no governing body for anyone with xc fences in their fields...
As some of the comments on this thread have proven, private yards have portables... not fixed down. xc schooling venues have portables... not always fixed down. 
A friend of mine was xc schooling at a big BE venue the other day, the day after after 3 days of BE competition. They were moving the portables around with machines while people were jumping. NONE OF THEM were fixed down any more, they were just lifting them and moving them. I'm presuming (but willing to be proven wrong) that all the stakes had been removed at once, ready for lifting and moving the fences by machine later.
This is why we need to try to get a tagging system done - even a plastic holder with a double-sided green (JUMPABLE) and red (DON'T JUMP) slide-in marker on it would do.
And we need RIDERS to know about this, and be enduringly proactive about asking, checking, and voting with their feet if portables aren't staked. 
Those of you with portables, please post the name of the company you bought them from. I think that's going to be the next angle, contact the companies selling them, and asking them to make all customers aware that xc fences, HOWEVER SMALL, must be staked down...
to reiterate, 1 of these fatalities happened at a very small fence, but it raised 10" when the horse hit it...  small fences aren't safer.


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## Saratoga (25 March 2011)

Would we need to make sure the staking is of a sufficient standard to withstand a horse hitting it at speed? How would we know when checking fences when course walking etc that the stakes in place are ok?


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## Perfect_Pirouette (25 March 2011)

kerilli said:



			This is why we need to try to get a tagging system done - even a plastic holder with a double-sided green (JUMPABLE) and red (DON'T JUMP) slide-in marker on it would do.
And we need RIDERS to know about this, and be enduringly proactive about asking, checking, and voting with their feet if portables aren't staked. 
Those of you with portables, please post the name of the company you bought them from. I think that's going to be the next angle, contact the companies selling them, and asking them to make all customers aware that xc fences, HOWEVER SMALL, must be staked down...
		
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Yes definitely. Agree with all of the above. I have already texted people I am meant to be doing the hunter trial with next weekend and have told them all about this and said that if the fences aren't staked down, I won't be doing it, simple as. Raising awareness is key, I wouldn't have thought about this at all before this morning and seeing this thread. And also as you say rider pro-activeness.


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## ihatework (25 March 2011)

There are a few different additional routes:

BHS - this would then cover exam centres (see above), would cover BRC, would cover the BHS XC series. Within their magazines it could also heighten rider awareness.

Manufacturers - should be encouraged to build into their designs specific staking/pinning points and supply portables with the stakes and instructions

Equine Insurers - Get them on the case

Target hunt rides etc as they are notorious offenders for flimsy unsecured portables, a friend of mine snapped her arm when a portable wasn't secured on my local hunts summer ride.

You will never get everyone, but the more riders are aware the more they will question those unaffiliated venues who do not secure.


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## Kelpie (25 March 2011)

here's another thought....

in this litigeous world in which we live, maybe the answer is to appeal to the insurance companies?  Presumably if there were something in event organiser's/ yards/ courses', etc, public liability insurance policies to make it clear that unfixed portables are not acceptable then that would soon make people fix them down?


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## Kelpie (25 March 2011)

"I hate work" - think we had the same thought at the same time re: insurance companies


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## kerilli (25 March 2011)

Saratoga said:



			Would we need to make sure the staking is of a sufficient standard to withstand a horse hitting it at speed? How would we know when checking fences when course walking etc that the stakes in place are ok?
		
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I'm not the expert on this (yet!) but I think this is the sort of thing riders need to be looking for:
http://etbjump.com/ordering/safety

I think the really good ones are stainless steel and look like a huge version of a drill bit (so, like a corkscrew kind of thing), i can't find a pic of the ones i mean but i read that BE trialled them and when they tried to pull the fence out, the top rail of the fence started bending before the fence moved a mm... 
since we can't go around driving cars into fences to see whether they move, there has to be a point at which we trust organisers to have staked them well if they've staked them at all, i guess...


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## kerilli (25 March 2011)

ihatework said:



			There are a few different additional routes:

BHS - this would then cover exam centres (see above), would cover BRC, would cover the BHS XC series. Within their magazines it could also heighten rider awareness.

Manufacturers - should be encouraged to build into their designs specific staking/pinning points and supply portables with the stakes and instructions

Equine Insurers - Get them on the case

Target hunt rides etc as they are notorious offenders for flimsy unsecured portables, a friend of mine snapped her arm when a portable wasn't secured on my local hunts summer ride.

You will never get everyone, but the more riders are aware the more they will question those unaffiliated venues who do not secure.
		
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Great ideas. Thanks, everyone. 
Right. Please can we all get on this then. It's no good just me contacting the BHS, insurance companies, etc. One email or letter might be ignored. Ten might not. A hundred really shouldn't be...  
And... tell your friends. Please. Tell anyone who goes and jumps xc fences. It doesn't matter if they're small or big fences, they MUST be staked down. If they aren't, they are potentially lethal...


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## ester (25 March 2011)

could someone (good at writing these things!) possibly draft a letter highlighting the key points?


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## Vetwrap (25 March 2011)

It might not get a response at all, but I have this morning emailed UK Chasers and given them the link to this thread.  This is an important issue and it needs to be brought to the attention of those that run the events and the xc courses.  

Like others, I was clueless about all this a couple of weeks ago...


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## kerilli (25 March 2011)

ester said:



			could someone (good at writing these things!) possibly draft a letter highlighting the key points?
		
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i'll post the one i've already used for BE and PC as soon as gmail stops refusing to show me my drafts, and showing gobbledegook instead, argh!

Thanks Vetwrap, brilliant, that's exactly what we need!


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## ester (25 March 2011)

googledegook I expect!  that's fab, I thought it might help stop the main points about why getting lost.


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## Spinal Tap (25 March 2011)

Not as bad as a fatal fall (I haven't watched the vid, I don't want to ) but I took this last year while walking a course for a comp I was doing.  The horse was eventually extricated and seemed right as rain afterwards but it certainly made me think twice.  The jump was left in the course and wasn't fixed down after the horse was freed   (and against my better judgement I jumped it )







ETA - this would have been 2'6 to 2'9, but as the base is wider than the jump is high it actually gets bigger when it flips which will be an additional hazard.


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## Vetwrap (25 March 2011)

I just had another thought (I'm on a roll today!).  Would emailing the equestrian colleges  that have xc courses would be a good thing as well?  Once there are some big names stating that their portable fences are staked securely, surely others would want to follow suit?


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## Holidays_are_coming (25 March 2011)

Thankyou, this is truly scary! I went schooling the other week and didn't really think if they were secured properly or not, it was at a be venue so I hope so, I'm doing a hunter trial next weekend and will be asking, that is a big be centre 2 so I hope so! Anything I can do to help let me know


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## Saratoga (25 March 2011)

Out of interest how do they stake portables on sanding going like Tweseldown? Would any stakes just pull out of the ground really easily?


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## Zebedee (25 March 2011)

Here's a link to the company that make ground anchors

http://www.spirafix.com/applications_events.htm

I have also emailed a link to the video to BRC.

Any accident of this type is negligence, & therefore organisers would be liable as well as venue owners. As I said earlier I suspect insurers once alerted to the potential for claims would start to insist that fences were securely fixed in their T & Cs.


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## kerilli (25 March 2011)

Spinal_Tap, that is a very sobering picture. Very lucky that the horse is upright, calm and obv not badly injured.

Zebedee, those are the really good ones that they trialled at BE I believe, the ones that didn't give at all even when the top bar of the fence started bending under the pulling force...
Saratoga, I think the longer anchors are for use in sandy ground, that's what the Spirafix longer ones are for. 

Vetwrap, that's another good idea, thanks. I guess it's finding out the correct people to email to at colleges etc, so anyone with names etc of the best people to contact, please pm me or put them on this thread.

more ammunition I hope:

These pictures, of a friend of mine at Swalcliffe on Saturday, show a horse getting in very close 

http://www.onlinepictureproof.com/j...y/albums/events/152063_42233/browse/?start=48

4th row down far left, green colours. The horse added 1 in a related distance, got too close, and hit it hard with her knees as she came up. Because the fence didn't move, she had  room to somehow get clear of it, and by the time she's in midair, everything looks normal again. Great save there. If that fence had tipped up, or risen when the horse hit it, I think the picture would have been very different...


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## fleabittengrey (25 March 2011)

I've just PMed you Kerilli, but for interest of others - 

for my private use portable XC jumps, I bought half a dozen for around £600, a few years ago. 

To buy the stakes and fittings from the same company now, to secure my jumps (which are all in two halves, and jumpable in both directions) - going by the advice from the company themselves, I will have to spend more than £1000. 

Why one earth don't they sell these vital safety things WITH the jumps?!


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## kerilli (25 March 2011)

fleabittengrey said:



			I've just PMed you Kerilli, but for interest of others - 

for my private use portable XC jumps, I bought half a dozen for around £600, a few years ago. 

To buy the stakes and fittings from the same company now, to secure my jumps (which are all in two halves, and jumpable in both directions) - going by the advice from the company themselves, I will have to spend more than £1000. 

Why one earth don't they sell these vital safety things WITH the jumps?!
		
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cripes, fleabittengrey, that's a lot more than i expected! have you had a look at spirafix? are they cheaper, or the same? i guess you need 8 per fence (2 for each side of each half, is that right?) which is a LOT of fixings. but then, £1000 is cheap if it prevents a death...   

the longer spirafix ones are £14.05 each, if you need 8 per fence, for 6 fences, that's £674.40...
the shorter ones are £11.71 each, 8 per fence for 6 fences = £562.08

that's IF your portables already have brackets on to fix the spirafix ground anchors to/through, if not, i guess that's the additional cost. Ouch.


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## Weezy (25 March 2011)

As requested, the builders of our portables...

http://www.dertminijumps.com/portables.html

They are VERY hot on them being correctly fixed.


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## kerilli (25 March 2011)

that's great to know, Weezy. Thankyou. I know not all manufacturers and venues are at fault here, far from it... the trouble is, this is such a hidden danger, how do we as riders know which ones are fine and which ones are lethally dangerous?


sample letter below for those who might want to use it, I think it contains all pertinent info but feel free to alter at will obv. if you want to copy me in on any replies etc, please do, kerilli at gmail dot com please.

Dear _____,

I hope you will take the time to read about a very major concern a large number of riders have about unfixed portable cross-country fences.

You may have heard about the portable fences tipping over at an unaffiliated competition at Burnham Market recently. 

Please will you look at:
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?f...oto_album_replyhttp://www.eventsphotos.co.uk/

I've been reliably informed that the same fence tipped up the week before when a horse left a leg at it.

At the same competition

http://www.eventsphotos.co.uk/

Photo Sales, Carousel XC Burnham Market 6 March 2011 camera 2 

class 5 Intermediate page 1 bay at bottom of page.

class 5 intermediate page 3 row 3

class 6 open page 3 row 4

Fortunately none of these riders or horses were hurt.

It concerns me greatly not only that these fences were evidently not fixed down securely, but also that those present said that the organisers assured people that they "were all in the correctly fixed state and wouldn't allow changes to be made." 
There is a thread on this topic on Horse and Hound Online forum, here: 
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=441119&highlight=burnham+market
the response on there convinced me that I am not alone in my concerns about this matter.

Riders and horses are being put at huge risk when XC schooling and competing at unaffiliated competitions, if portable fences, no matter how small, are not fixed down securely. One of the fatalities at an unfixed portable was at a fence of only 2'6" high, but spectators reported that it rose 10" when the horse hit the top of it, which caused a full rotational fall onto the rider.

Riders going to B.E. venues on non-B.E. competition days are, I am sure, confident that the fences are of B.E. standards of design, build quality, placement and fixing.

I don't think it's the ultimate responsibility of riders to be vigilant about this when going and walking courses, especially as a fence which a child or even an adult might not be able to move, a pony or horse might easily tip over.
I feel that course builders should secure all portables properly the moment they are placed anywhere to be jumped, for practice or competition, since portable fences tipping up have been a factor in three xc fatalities that I know of. 

The video of one of them is here, please only watch it if you aren't easily upset, because it is a shocking video. This was a 15 year old Russian girl doing a CNC event in 2010:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BZsk_UL7zM

I think this shows very clearly and indelibly the huge danger posed by unfixed portables. The fence tipping up was a very significant factor in the way the horse fell, and the ultimate outcome.

I would like to see a standardised, universally recognised marker-system on the front of all portables, showing whether they are staked down ready to be jumped (say, a green marker, "JUMPABLE") or not staked down yet (a red marker, "DON'T JUMP").

I would really appreciate your thoughts on this matter.

Thankyou for your time,


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## popsdosh (25 March 2011)

Just a word of warning I may be wrong but I dont think I have seen any mention of these portables when used in an indoor arena for arena eventing it is nearly impossible to fix these fences in this situation so beware when taking part they are just as dangerous .I seem to remember a girl being killed at MK jumping an indoor CC course a few years back.


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## Rowreach (25 March 2011)

All our portables are staked with strong slim fence posts which are set into the ground, slant cut at the top in line with the fence and securely roped onto the fence itself.  The bigger fences are staked with heavier posts.  We also stake our tree trunk jumps, even the huge heavy ones which may look like they would never move but I'm not taking that chance.

I became aware of the dangers of rotating fences as a child, getting on for 40 years ago, when my pony tipped up over a cavaletti (which are no longer used for that reason).  A few years later, our hunt started using portable tiger traps (triangular railed fences) which caused a number of nasty falls before they realised they had to be staked.

I'll be showing this thread to a few more people (BHS/college etc) and I think most of the hunter trial organisers over here should be made aware also.


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## lialls (25 March 2011)

Could we not get an artical in H&H about it? and ask the other magazine to put something in theres too?  We need to spread the word and raise awareness if BE and PC cant help to govern any rules on portables.


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## kerilli (25 March 2011)

Spinal_Tap, is it okay to use that picture elsewhere, please? Thanks.

lialls, i contacted H&H about this a week or two ago, and have asked again, haven't heard back. I really really hope they will run a story on this topic to raise awareness. 

popsdosh, you're right, BUT indoor xc is not the same as xc, horses aren't travelling at the same speed and most horses realise it's in an arena so it's really glorified sj'ing. I don't think it's tricking the horse the way moveable xc fences do... 
it's still a danger, but less of one imho. I'm not sure whether the fatality at MK indoor was due to a portable tipping.


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## HammieHamlet (25 March 2011)

kerilli said:



			To reiterate - this happened at a CNC in Russia, so, an 'affiliated" event. NOT at a U.K. event. 
.
		
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I live in Russia and this is precisely why I don't event out here, and SJ instead (although even with that, I hardly ever see anyone wearing a hat whilst jumping.. and I mean BIG fences - that's another point entirely though). I've seen some videos of horrendous XC riding here at FEI level events - at least that poor girl was balanced. You would be shocked, honestly.

At CNC level, it baffles me as to why they wouldn't consider making those fences fixed - it's not excusable at the lower heights, but in terms of risk, clearly more dangerous the higher the fences. 

Well done for highlighting this - I'm now thinking back to all the unaffiliated stuff I've done in the past with moveable fences. Certainly makes you think


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## Spinal Tap (25 March 2011)

kerilli said:



			Spinal_Tap, is it okay to use that picture elsewhere, please? Thanks.
		
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Yes of course, hope it helps.

ETA - for info, this was at Epworth Equestrian, which doesn't do BE stuff but is a course I would definitely regard as one of the best unaffiliated ones I've ridden round.  The pic was taken in spring 2010 & I don't know whether the jump has been staked since this happened.


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## Vetwrap (25 March 2011)

After emailing Brooksby Melton College Equestrian Centre, I got a very swift reply from Jayne Fytche, the Equestrian Centre Manager, saying "all our ( Brooksby Melton College) *cross country portable fences are secured with ground anchors prior to any schooling or competition use."

Good to know and I do thank Jayne for coming back to me so quickly.


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## kerilli (25 March 2011)

Vetwrap said:



			After emailing Brooksby Melton College Equestrian Centre, I got a very swift reply from Jayne Fytche, the Equestrian Centre Manager, saying "all our ( Brooksby Melton College) *cross country portable fences are secured with ground anchors prior to any schooling or competition use."

Good to know and I do thank Jayne for coming back to me so quickly.
		
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That's really great to hear. Thankyou.

Thanks Spinal_Tap, might be worth someone (local?) dropping them an email to ask, perhaps? 

p.s. hi from a fellow FSM devotee! Pastafarians rule...


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## fleabittengrey (25 March 2011)

kerilli said:



			cripes, fleabittengrey, that's a lot more than i expected! have you had a look at spirafix? are they cheaper, or the same? i guess you need 8 per fence (2 for each side of each half, is that right?) which is a LOT of fixings. but then, £1000 is cheap if it prevents a death...   

the longer spirafix ones are £14.05 each, if you need 8 per fence, for 6 fences, that's £674.40...
the shorter ones are £11.71 each, 8 per fence for 6 fences = £562.08

that's IF your portables already have brackets on to fix the spirafix ground anchors to/through, if not, i guess that's the additional cost. Ouch.
		
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Thanks for that! Seems the jump manufacturer are also selling spirafix, but with a considerable mark up ... £18 each + £6 for a bracket. That does make a big difference!
I wonder if my "man who can" could do something about making brackets to attach the spirafix to.


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## amyneave (25 March 2011)

Poor girl, looked awful. R.I.P


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## VoR (25 March 2011)

Tragic, so young.

Have to disagree with the post that suggests this would have happened even at a permanent fence, the horse didn't seem to take off, I believe would maybe have catapulted this poor girl over but not itself and hence not landed on her....but who knows and frankly does it matter given this sad loss of life?


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## angelish (25 March 2011)

OMG terrible fall 

there must be something we can do.
what about approaching insurance companys , these local events must have insurance and if they wouldn't be covered if the fences were not fixed might get them to listen,do you think ?

i sent the organisers of our local event (accident last week due to fence moving) an email on tues and they haven't even replied


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## nikkimariet (25 March 2011)

Christ almighty. Poor girl.


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## JessandCharlie (25 March 2011)

That is horrific. Truly disgusting that something so simple was overlooked. It could have saved a life. (or no doubt numerous.)

Now, I don't know if this has been suggested, but if I weren't a member of this forum, I wouldn't have known. The thought wouldn't have crossed my mind (I don't XC very often at all, but still) I know plenty of people who XC and aren't members of forums like this one. 

Is it worth somebody (perhaps you, Kerrili) writing up an email type thing highlighting the dangers, that we could all send to all of our horsey contacts, asking them to forward it to all of theirs. We can stick it on facebook too. I think a big bit of it is lack of awareness, if people don't know the dangers, they will continue to fund this unwittingly. If people are AWARE they can make at the very least an informed decision to compete, and hopefully boycott the event. 

Also, supposing I entered a Hunter Trial for example, or went XC schooling and discovered an unfixed portable, could I ask for my entry back on the grounds that it's unsafe? Not often you can walk a course before you enter. (Not that money would stop me from withdrawing, but I'm loath to fund this sort of crap)

J&C


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## angelish (25 March 2011)

i think the above is a good idea, if someone wrote out an email containting all these links and info on why its important that portables are pinned down i'd be happy to copy and send it to all organisers and friends in my area 

as you can tell by my spelling i am prob not the best at getting points across 

is it also worth emailing portable xc manufacturers ,they should not be allowed to supply these jumps without the fixings to make them safe surely 
although i know in my area it seems to be local farmers building there own courses


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## TheMule (25 March 2011)

The video is just too scary and sad for words 

We all accept the risks posed by our sport but you'd like to think organisers will go to the greatest lengths possible to ensure safety and these things clearly aren't safe.


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## brighthair (25 March 2011)

I've put it on my Facebook profile. Is it worth setting up a Facebook page to invite people to? Just thinking the more people that see it, and refuse to jump unfixed portables, the better....


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## Kokopelli (25 March 2011)

I think setting up a FB group about this is a really good idea. 

I think I recall reading somewhere that Jade South died because of a unifxed portable? . RIP both Jade and Elena. I think that was over a very small fence aswell 2ft6 I think.

ETA: Yes it was an unfixed portable that caused Jade's death and this statement was made:

_Keith Lesley, for Forest of Dean District Council, said there were no breaches of health and safety regulations but the fence was movable and should have been fixed to the ground.
He added: &#8216;Although the use of the fence fell short of best practice it did not contribute to the cause of the accident.&#8217; _


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## Holidays_are_coming (25 March 2011)

I think a Facebook page is a good idea, then we can add the be venues and make everyone more aware!


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## brighthair (25 March 2011)

being bored, I took it upon myself to make a page...... still updating it


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## kerilli (25 March 2011)

Kokopelli said:



			I think setting up a FB group about this is a really good idea. 

I think I recall reading somewhere that Jade South died because of a unifxed portable? . RIP both Jade and Elena. I think that was over a very small fence aswell 2ft6 I think.
		
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Yes, spot on. a fence of 2'6" which rose 10" when the horse hit it...

there was another fatality involving a portable moving, in France in 2007, and a very good European rider was paralysed when a portable flipped.

A facebook page is a really good idea. any volunteers please? i'm rubbish at that kind of stuff... oh brilliant, thanks brighthair! please can you put that pic of Spinal_Tap's on there too?


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## lialls (25 March 2011)

Another vote for the facebook group. Keep it simple tho, most people will join but wont really read and take in what it says if theres too much info on it, try and keep it to the point.  Deffently worth a try just to spread the word tho.


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## lialls (25 March 2011)

Brighthair can you post the link after you've done it please


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## Ranyhyn (25 March 2011)

It's horrific to think that fences as small as 2'6 (which is a height that a putz like me would think of jumping) could potentially prove fatal - and even in a video like the one above - where the rider got it right(!) God help those of us who cock up sometimes.

Thanks for posting this.  As ever, the distasteful can often be a huge eye-opener and forewarned - is forearmed.

Knowledge is power people.  Don't let this girl have died in vain.


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## JessandCharlie (25 March 2011)

lialls said:



			brighthair can you post the link after you've done it please
		
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^^

j&c


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## brighthair (25 March 2011)

kerilli said:



			Yes, spot on. a fence of 2'6" which rose 10" when the horse hit it...

there was another fatality involving a portable moving, in France in 2007, and a very good European rider was paralysed when a portable flipped.

A facebook page is a really good idea. any volunteers please? i'm rubbish at that kind of stuff... oh brilliant, thanks brighthair! please can you put that pic of Spinal_Tap's on there too?
		
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in progress..... have invited you as admin so you can invite people and add stuff...


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## Ranyhyn (25 March 2011)

**** a brick Spinal Tap, that photo is a real shocker!


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## brighthair (25 March 2011)

right - page started - can change title if any suggestions, and if anyone finds any photos please post them on the wall, or link me and I can add them...


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## brighthair (25 March 2011)

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Ban-u...ed-portable-XC-fences/201281593228316?sk=wall


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## Kokopelli (25 March 2011)

Good stuff Brighthair- I'm going to spread the word


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## martlin (25 March 2011)

Saratoga said:



			Out of interest how do they stake portables on sanding going like Tweseldown? Would any stakes just pull out of the ground really easily?
		
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When it comes to driving stakes into sandy soil, it actually secures them much better than for example clay. I know it sounds strange, but anybody who tried to bang fencing posts in on sand will tell you that once they are in, they are in alright.


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## Sanolly (25 March 2011)

If someone can add me on FB I have a couple of people to invite?


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## Red30563 (25 March 2011)

brighthair said:



http://www.facebook.com/pages/Ban-u...ed-portable-XC-fences/201281593228316?sk=wall

Click to expand...

I've joined and am spreading the word....


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## Ranyhyn (25 March 2011)

What about rather than having these fences on flat "leg" bottoms, actually make the "legs" sharp like stakes at each corner?  Yeah so a tractor would have to push them in and take them out - but could that be an idea?


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## Kokopelli (25 March 2011)

I've posted the links to a few other horsey groups on FB. On one people have started arguing with me about it saying that there's nothing wrong with it!


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## suzysparkle (25 March 2011)

That fall is horrific, poor girl. I've 'liked' the facebook page. I've crashed into a portable fence once before (Horse was spooking at the mini jumps close by) and thank goodness it was pinned. No harm done, Horse didn't fall and nor did I. If it hadn't been pinned then I strongly suspect that it would have flipped and we would have been a lot worse off.


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## kerilli (25 March 2011)

Koko, tell them to watch the video.   
seriously. anyone who watches that and doesn't realise that the fence flipping made the horse fall the way it did, and at the speed it did... i give up.
also, poor Jade South... a full rotational at a 2'6" fence, when not going fast either by all accounts... 
thanks brighthair, that's brilliant. have shared with all friends. 
can we do a list on there of venues where they definitely fix them all down, as reported here, such as Stockland Lovell?


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## lialls (25 March 2011)

Koko, point them in this thread direction


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## Kokopelli (25 March 2011)

I showed them video and they haven't said anything back yet.

I know that Hilltop Ledbury fixes all fences down. (Not a BE course but fences still go up to about 3ft3)


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## Woodykat (25 March 2011)

Thanks Kokopelli for the info about Hilltop - Hilltop and Pauntley are my local courses and was getting a little worried I must say!
Don't suppose you would know about Gadbury (Ledbury PC and hunt xc course)?


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## sidsmum (25 March 2011)

Sobering stuff. 

I didn't want to watch the video but I thought I should as that's the level I ride at.

It brings it home doens't it?

Poor girl and her family.  My thoughts are with them. xx


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## Kokopelli (25 March 2011)

I'll PM you WoodyKat- there is a few local places I'd steer clear from and not because of unfixed fences.


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## Luci07 (25 March 2011)

Thank you for this. Someone else who assumes that the fences would be made safe and I will definately be testing.

The video is not salacious - it is underlining the points that have been made. Horse and rider were balanced and controlled. 

RIP Eleni


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## CastleMouse (25 March 2011)

That was horrific, RIP Elena.

It is a danger far more venues need to be aware of, and changes need to be made.


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## moody_mare (25 March 2011)

I've pm'ed Kerrilli about creating an online petition, getting as many people to sign as possible, sending letters, emails, video's, photo's & copies of this petition to anyone who may come into contact with these fences; riders, organisers, PC, BHS, Colleges, Manufactuers, fence judges, magazines - anyone & everyone!!
I don't think I can sit here and do nothing, I want to do all I physically can to prevent another life being taken completly unnecesarily.


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## brighthair (25 March 2011)

moody_mare said:



			I've pm'ed Kerrilli about creating an online petition, getting as many people to sign as possible, sending letters, emails, video's, photo's & copies of this petition to anyone who may come into contact with these fences; riders, organisers, PC, BHS, Colleges, Manufactuers, fence judges, magazines - anyone & everyone!!
I don't think I can sit here and do nothing, I want to do all I physically can to prevent another life being taken completly unnecesarily.
		
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I've just emailed 4 equestrian centres local to me asking - do you use portables? and if so are they fixed down? will post on the page once I get replies...


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## MrsMozart (25 March 2011)

F'ing hell. 


Rest in peace lass, shine bright and warm.


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## NR99 (25 March 2011)

Kerilli,
Have you emailed Burnham Market considering they had 3/4 nasty falls (caught on camera) in two weeks to see if they have changed their policy and if not why!
Happy to do it if not, just wondered if you had already and if you had a response?
Nx


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## Mike007 (25 March 2011)

Unless you are an engineer,you will probably have no idea whether a fence is adequately pinned or not. half a tonne of horse hitting the back rail of a chair is going to rip prettywell any pin out of the ground . This fence is especialy dangerous because the horses legs become trapped in the bent position by the seat rising up as the back goes down. It makes a rotational unavoidable ,and it will be at ground level too ,so there is Absolutely no chance of being thrown clear.So sad. Ten minutes with a post borer and a couple of six foot telegraph pole sections would have prevented it from rolling for certain.


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## moody_mare (25 March 2011)

K said there has been an inestigation about the incident at BM


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## kerilli (25 March 2011)

nickirhia99 said:



			Kerilli,
Have you emailed Burnham Market considering they had 3/4 nasty falls (caught on camera) in two weeks to see if they have changed their policy and if not why!
Happy to do it if not, just wondered if you had already and if you had a response?
Nx
		
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Hi N, no, I haven't yet, I have been contacting organisations not individual centres, so far... but I've had word back from BE that my email about that has been sent to "the people who let the unaffiliated event take place who are looking in to it and those people involved with writing the Safety & XC Design and Build guidelines"... so, things happening there I believe. I've been told, by a separate source, there is an ongoing investigation.
Any further pressure would, I suspect, only be good though.


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## NR99 (25 March 2011)

Ok I'll send a polite enquiry!


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## kerilli (25 March 2011)

Mike007 said:



			Unless you are an engineer,you will probably have no idea whether a fence is adequately pinned or not. half a tonne of horse hitting the back rail of a chair is going to rip prettywell any pin out of the ground . This fence is especialy dangerous because the horses legs become trapped in the bent position by the seat rising up as the back goes down. It makes a rotational unavoidable ,and it will be at ground level too ,so there is Absolutely no chance of being thrown clear.So sad. Ten minutes with a post borer and a couple of six foot telegraph pole sections would have prevented it from rolling for certain.
		
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I've heard very good things about the spirafix ground anchors. I read that BE did a test with them with a crane with measured pull/pressure, and the top rail of the xc fence started bending before the anchors started giving at all. So, I believe that certain pins, correctly fixed (along the leading edge not the back edge obv) are up to the job.
Agreed though, we can't tell at a glance.
Gamebird told me earlier that she had an incident with a previously-fixed portable when xc schooling... newish fence, newish stakes, but the wooden stakes/pegs had rotted due to a v wet summer, so broke away. She and horse were very fortunately uninjured. So, that's another concern - these fences need to be anchored, correctly, with the right materials...


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## Mike007 (25 March 2011)

Those spirafix ground anchors are still no match for a direct verticle pull . The kind of thing that happens when the front of a chair rises because the back is hit. Yes, they are a lot better than a simple pin, but even then, they still rely on the point of attachment to the jump being sturdy enough.And on the subject of stakes ,since the tanalising treatment was altered prohibiting all the important ingrediants. The life of a fence post is now very very short,probably not much more than a couple of years.


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## kerilli (25 March 2011)

Mike007 said:



			Those spirafix ground anchors are still no match for a direct verticle pull . The kind of thing that happens when the front of a chair rises because the back is hit. Yes, they are a lot better than a simple pin, but even then, they still rely on the point of attachment to the jump being sturdy enough.And on the subject of stakes ,since the tanalising treatment was altered prohibiting all the important ingrediants. The life of a fence post is now very very short,probably not much more than a couple of years.
		
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I see what you mean. Perhaps the answer is to avoid portable fences with that bench-like profile?
what about railway sleepers, they're still soaked in creosote aren't they? is it the fact that they're steeped in it for months that does the trick? thanks.


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## Mike007 (25 March 2011)

kerilli said:



			I see what you mean. Perhaps the answer is to avoid portable fences with that bench-like profile?
what about railway sleepers, they're still soaked in creosote aren't they? is it the fact that they're steeped in it for months that does the trick? thanks.
		
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Real railway sleepers ,as opposed to the tanalised ones for raised flower beds, are going to last a very long time. I think a bench like profile is possibly the worst possible portable fence. To me ,the idea of a portable fence is to avoid all the complicated woodwork ,NOT TO AVOID A BIT OF POSTBORING HOWEVER.Too much is being expected of the system.


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## punk (25 March 2011)

Kerilli - that video brought tears to my eyes.

You seem to have a knack of bringing to the public forum, all the things that I am passionate about myself.  I salute you, as I know I should do these things myself, and you actually do do it!!

I am always very careful to check portable fences since we witnessed a  terrible fatal accident in Scotland at a PC event in the late 1990's.  It was the first PC fatality for many many years, but although it did involve a portable fence, I hasten to say that there was absolutely no blame attached to anyone in this case.

Can I make an observation which I think is very important:

 THE  JUMP IN THE VIDEO IS HIGHER IN THE CENTRE THAN IT IS AT THE SIDES 

I think it was you (correct me if I am wrong!) that said in a recent post how horses - partly because of the position of their eyes - found it difficult to 'read' the profile of jumps such as the 'mushrooms' that have caused a lot of falls in recent years.  

These mushrooms are higher in the middle than at the edges.

I have thought a lot about this subject, as my youngest daughter had a nasty situation in similar circumstances.  At a PC event a few years ago. a portable jump, painted green, and 'barn door' in profile (ie arched) caused numerous falls and nasty moments, and the jump, although 'fixed down', eventually fell over completely - having been weakened by so many horses hitting it.  

At the time I couldn't decide if it was the colour (blending in with the background and therefore horses not seeing it properly) or the profile ( ie like a barn door - higher in the middle) that was causing the problem.  It was probably a combination of both but proved to be very dangerous.  Luckily there were no serious injuries - but it could easily have been otherwise.

So - yes portables ARE very very dangerous unless they are very securely fixed down.

BUT - JUST POSSIBLY - THE PROFILE OF THE JUMP IS EQUALLY IMPORTANT!

We can't assume that horses see things the way we see them - and I'm sure that the best course designers take the statistics of how certain fences 'ride' into account when planning new courses.


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## WoopsiiD (26 March 2011)

Excuse my ignorance.....

Would weighting the front of the fence and pinning it help?
Fill the front with sandbags that can be removed so as ultimatley the fence remains portable when bags are removed but the weighted front helps to hold the fence down and stop it from being tipped like in the video?

I'm probably way off the mark....xc and me have never really got on!


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## mystiandsunny (26 March 2011)

I think perhaps I'll just avoid portable fences - we only go xc occasionally, for fun, and it's only ever xc schooling or fun rides, never a comp, so that wouldn't be too hard to do.


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## kerilli (26 March 2011)

moody_mare said:



			I've pm'ed Kerrilli about creating an online petition, getting as many people to sign as possible, sending letters, emails, video's, photo's & copies of this petition to anyone who may come into contact with these fences; riders, organisers, PC, BHS, Colleges, Manufactuers, fence judges, magazines - anyone & everyone!!
I don't think I can sit here and do nothing, I want to do all I physically can to prevent another life being taken completly unnecesarily.
		
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Yes, exactly. To update everyone, we've already heard back from B.E., the Pony Club's Health and Safety officer and UK Chasers. I've been reliably informed that there is an investigation into the fence(s) turning over at Burnham Market... it was at an affiliated Riding Club event.
Lots more leads to follow up on, but the more we all do, the better. There are too many places to contact for just a few of us to do it, so please contact your local XC schooling venues and ask them. Do they fix their portables down as securely as possible as soon as they have moved them? Report back on this thread or a new one please, and on the Facebook page. If more than one person contacts a venue, that's fine, it shows that it's not just one lone fussy nutter!  
Also, manufacturers of portables - ask them for their recommendations about their fences. If they say that small fences don't need fixing, ask them to think about the 2'6" fence that was involved in a fatality...


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## kerilli (26 March 2011)

WoopsiiD, yes, sandbags do help, iirc that is what is used on fences for arena xc. BUT you need a lot of weight at the front to counter the possible effect of half a tonne of horse hitting the fence at 20+ mph... 
fixing the front of the fence is very important. it sounds like a no-brainer but apparently people have fixed the rear edge of fences before, making a horrible pivot-point...

mystiandsunny, that's okay as long as you can always tell the difference... Some of the 'portable' fences i've seen are very big and solid looking (e.g. some of the ones at the Hong Kong Olympics). Of course, those would have been properly anchored, for a CCI****, but you couldn't tell that they weren't permanent imho. 
tbh you're probably more likely to find fences fixed down properly at affiliated competitions than at fun rides and xc schooling...  esp as i don't know many people who walk a fun ride course or walk and check every fence when xc schooling...   

punk, thanks. all support greatly appreciated, hope i won't get any nasty ''it's that chuffing know-it-all/busybody going off on one again trying to frighten everyone'' comments!   

the arched profile - yes, it's a big problem, but i don't think it's the problem in this case... the horse totally misjudged the fence and put his legs over the front (low) bar and into the middle of it. i think he misjudged it by at least a foot or two. the fence was breaking with the force of him hitting it, if it hadn't tipped, I think he'd had dived right through it onto his nose, but very probably stayed upright. If the fence hadn't broken, had stayed absolutely solid and not moved (as a proper xc fence should) then he might have banked it, kind of walked up it (i've seen lots of horses do that over the years and get away with it) or fallen, impossible to say. he makes a right mess of it BUT so do lots of horses and they don't fall like that.

re: the fence at PC, i'd suspect the profile rather than the colour was definitely the problem. horses see shades of green very clearly (better than us). When i bought Fieldguard Elec Tape and asked for white (thinking it's the most visible) they told me they've done tests and that green is the most visible to horses, then brown...


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## MagicMelon (26 March 2011)

SusieT said:



			I personally think it is incredibly wrong/distasteful that this is in the public domain in the first place, this is a young kid and anyone associated I feel would be distressed by seeing this. I see it is a news programme that showed it in the first place, not pleasant.
		
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Why's it distasteful?  OP said she had sought approval before posting this video.  If the parents didnt want it seen then they wouldnt have allowed it in the public domain.  Very sadly these things happen, being able to watch a video - you can clearly SEE the problem with these portable fences.  Hopefully the more people who watch it will campaign for portables to be sorted so as to avoid further deaths.


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## kerilli (26 March 2011)

MagicMelon said:



			Why's it distasteful?  OP said she had sought approval before posting this video.  If the parents didnt want it seen then they wouldnt have allowed it in the public domain.  Very sadly these things happen, being able to watch a video - you can clearly SEE the problem with these portable fences.  Hopefully the more people who watch it will campaign for portables to be sorted so as to avoid further deaths.
		
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Yes, that's exactly why I posted it, after agonising over the decision for a day. 
A number of people have now been galvanised into action, far more than could have been convinced by stories and even pictures, imho. If a picture's worth a thousand words, a video could be worth a million words.
I think the culture that prevails in eventing of trying to brush such awful things under the carpet as swiftly as possible is one of its biggest failings - we can all LEARN from this sort of thing, and try to prevent it happening again... to anyone. I don't seek the details of falls and accidents because I'm ghoulish, or sensationalist, but because I love horses, I love eventing, and I absolutely don't want to see riders getting hurt and killed.
The idea that I got to see it but shouldn't let everyone else, to protect them... hmm, I'd rather leave it up to the individual. Some people didn't choose to watch it, and that's fine of course, their choice. Those who did, have been very shocked, and I bet none of us will forget it, and why it happened.


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## Holidays_are_coming (26 March 2011)

I just went to email my local centres to ask and almost felt embarrised to be asking, how stupid is that it my life on the line, everytime I jump a portable that isnt fixed down (maybe Im scared of the answer)!!!


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## kerilli (26 March 2011)

lui23456 said:



			I just went to email my local centres to ask and almost felt embarrised to be asking, how stupid is that it my life on the line, everytime I jump a portable that isnt fixed down (maybe Im scared of the answer)!!!
		
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maybe we need to say we're part of a group from HHO online that are very concerned about this, make it less off the 'lone fusspot' kind of thing?


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## moody_mare (26 March 2011)

I said;
......I am becoming increasingly concerned as are many other riders, a large number of HHO forums users have decided that action needs to be taken to prevent more horses / riders being badly injured and even killed due to accidents involving these fences.
I then went on to send links to pictures & videos (with a warning) & explain how these accidnets can be prevented, and said thankyou. If when they reply they say no are portables are not fixed and we do not plan on fixing them I will politely say thankyou, i will no longer using yor course as my horses & my own welfare come first in my opinion 

I didn't feel silly or embarrased because if their jumps are not made safe I will not continue using their course, I was asking a question based on the saftey of the course which we are all entitled to do


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## WoopsiiD (26 March 2011)

moody_mare said:



			I didn't feel silly or embarrased because if their jumps are not made safe I will not continue using their course, I was asking a question based on the saftey of the course which we are all entitled to do
		
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Good!

Why should any of you be made to feel embarrased?
These centres are happily taking your money-they are not letting you use their equipment out of the goodness of their hearts.
Some are making a tidy profit from you.
They have a duty of care to ensure you are safe.
They should not be taking your safety for granted-at the end of the day they owe you!-you could easily go elswhere!
Without YOU the customer there is no Riding Club/XC course/Event centre.
Please keep it up.
I will be emailing my local centre and might even pay them a visit to see for myself that their jumps are safe.


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## BlizzardBudd (26 March 2011)

this really needs sorting out! RIP elena such a tradgic accident that could have been prevented


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## tink101 (26 March 2011)

Even more scarily for me is that we flipped a xc fence at barely any speed at all. It was a table that had been twisted, so back left was up and front left down, right front up and right back down, was very very tricky to gaugue the height as u got closer on foot. Came round on the horse had slowed up to give her a good look at it, we then went on to jump it from practically a standstill after much backing off. As we scrambled over it the entire thing just came with us. Fortunatly neither of us were hurt. But if we or indeed some one else had hit that at speed it could have ended up been a very nasty accident.


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## Kat (26 March 2011)

Scary stuff. Thanks for highlighting this issue, it is something I've never thought about. 

As a lawyer I am shocked that venues/organisers allow portable fences to be left unfixed as it seems to me that in the event of an accident they would almost certainly be liable in a civil claim. I think the threat of litigation could be the way to hammer the point home.


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## kerilli (26 March 2011)

thanks KK, that's useful information.


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## alwaysbroke (26 March 2011)

Have just read the whole post and watched the vid. 
Thank you K for bring this to our attention, the video certainly isn't pleasant viewing, but as said before certainly brings home the enormity of the danger of portables not being fixed correctly. Have read a few posts about portables tipping up, but it hadn't really 'registered' how dangerous it was
We are xc schooling on Tuesday and will definitely be asking if the portables are fixed before jumping any, will report back on venues answer.

RIP Elena x


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## Vetwrap (26 March 2011)

KristmasKatt said:



			Scary stuff. Thanks for highlighting this issue, it is something I've never thought about. 

As a lawyer I am shocked that venues/organisers allow portable fences to be left unfixed as it seems to me that in the event of an accident they would almost certainly be liable in a civil claim. I think the threat of litigation could be the way to hammer the point home.
		
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Just a thought, but if there were courses that for whatever reason refused to peg portables down, would flagging unpegged fences be a way forward?  It would inform riders and may limit the liability of the course owner.  It is not the ideal, which would be banning all unsecured portables, but it may be a way of making sure that people are fully aware of the risks they take.  As has been said before, how many riders xc schooling, walk the course checking fences first?


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## kerilli (26 March 2011)

Vetwrap said:



			Just a thought, but if there were courses that for whatever reason refused to peg portables down, would flagging unpegged fences be a way forward?  It would inform riders and may limit the liability of the course owner.  It is not the ideal, which would be banning all unsecured portables, but it may be a way of making sure that people are fully aware of the risks they take.  As has been said before, how many riders xc schooling, walk the course checking fences first?
		
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Yes, definitely. I've said a few times, a universal tagging system with a green JUMPABLE and a red DON'T JUMP marker on it would be ideal, an instant way for riders to see whether a portable is properly fixed down yet. obviously they can't always be, sometimes someone will go around with the anchor-removing tool and take them all out, then someone else will come along with the tractor to shift them all later maybe... but at the moment there's no way of knowing.
so, how do we go about getting that idea implemented? ask a manufacturer to 'sponsor'/subsidise such a thing?


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## brighthair (26 March 2011)

It should just be totally transparent and the info should be available as to whether they are or not so people can make an informed choice. I guess the other issue is whether local centres are aware of the dangers...?


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## JessandCharlie (26 March 2011)

kerilli said:



			so, how do we go about getting that idea implemented? ask a manufacturer to 'sponsor'/subsidise such a thing?
		
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Or a top venue?

J&C


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## WoopsiiD (26 March 2011)

What about 'making' some ourselves to give others ideas??
Green card laminated on a bit of string that can be tied to the xc flag? Red for unpegged?
Or a green stake that can be 'planted' in front of the jump but is flush with the fence so as unable to be knocked or cause an injury but clearly seen?

It would be a cheap way of getting something started?


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## JessandCharlie (26 March 2011)

Green 'flag' with a clothes peg stuck on the back so it can be clipped to a flag? Should be fairly cheap and easy to make 

J&C


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## WoopsiiD (26 March 2011)

A truly terrible attempt to illustrate my idea lol


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## Zeus (26 March 2011)

kibob said:



			Can't bring myself to watch the video but wanted to thankyou for posting it.  I am another one who didn't even realise portable jumps needed anchoring, and now I can't believe my ignorance.  I will be making people aware of this too.  Thanks
		
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Echo this word for word


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## moody_mare (26 March 2011)

K have you started a petition or would you like me to ?
I think getting a sponsor is deffiantly the way to go or contact the manufactors (sp) & see if they would be able to send a red & green card with every portable they sell, then the venues have no excuse not to warn people. If this is viable contact BE, magazines etc explaining and try and get this made into some kind of rule that every portable must have either a red or green card indicating whether it is safe to jump or not. Then if people chose to jump they have been warned & done so against advice ?


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## kerilli (26 March 2011)

No i haven't, please do. yes, just a simple holder on the front of the fence and a double-sided card would do, flip over according to whether the fence has been anchored or not. 
maybe we can get organisers/managers/owners of venues to sign up to the petition too.
A petition is a great idea, and we can link to it from the FB page.


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## WoopsiiD (26 March 2011)

GREEN CARD-This fence has been anchored and is ready to jump.
RED CARD-This fence is un-anchored. Jump at own risk.

A4 sheet.
Lamitate.
Glue a peg on the back.
Jobs a good'un.
Cost? 30p each max. 
Lives saved?? Maybe.
Knowledge is Power-or in this case a possible life saver.
I'd happily make up a set at home to give to a RC.


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## kerilli (26 March 2011)

WoopsiiD said:



			GREEN CARD-This fence has been anchored and is ready to jump.
RED CARD-This fence is un-anchored. Jump at own risk.

A4 sheet.
Lamitate.
Glue a peg on the back.
Jobs a good'un.
Cost? 30p each max. 
Lives saved?? Maybe.
Knowledge is Power-or in this case a possible life saver.
I'd happily make up a set at home to give to a RC.
		
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Yes, absolutely. A5 might be big enough though, A4 would blow in the wind and might get blown away.


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## WoopsiiD (26 March 2011)

kerilli said:



			Yes, absolutely. A5 might be big enough though, A4 would blow in the wind and might get blown away.
		
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Even cheaper then!


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## moody_mare (26 March 2011)

http://www.petitionbuzz.com/petitions/bandangerousxcfences

Hope this is okay ?
send to anyone horsey, shall post a link on the facebook group page now


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## WoopsiiD (26 March 2011)

I can't work the scanner...but even I have managed to knock up two signs.
One on green 'GO-THIS FENCE IS ANCHORED AND READY TO JUMP' and red 'STOP! THIS JUMP IS UN-ANCHORED. JUMP AT OWN RISK'. It took longer to warm up the laminator than it did to create the signs.


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## Natch (26 March 2011)

I havent read the whole thread, but I know people who work at a "quite big, reasonably important" place with portable jumps. I have no idea about what they do for safety, but if they do do the right things, might be worth getting them to mention it in their next newsletter (good PR for them, spreading the knowledge for all). if not then obviously it needs sensitive handling. Happy to do whatever may help, just let me know.

I am also quite happy to approach the equestrian college if anything needs saying to them - although they don't use their XC course, but maybe its worth doing some sort of education through them?


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## Natch (27 March 2011)

OK I've read a bit more of the thread, and just have one question:

What about indoor XC schooling, or those events where a SJ and XC course are combined in an arena (sorry I'm not well enough up to know the terms). Would they have to stop, or can these portable jumps be anchored in a school (I'm thinking about the difficulty membranes may poise in particular), or is this just not a risk because I'm missing something crucial?


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## ester (27 March 2011)

A couple of things have been mentioned about that naturally. 

1) that the fences are anchored down with sandbags (obviously not ideal but better than nothing. 
2) when doing arena eventing the horses are jumping differently, the pace is different to that at XC, horses are expecting the potential of a fence to move as to them they are effectively showjumping. They don't expect a solid xc fence to move when they hit it.
3) that riders competing at these events know that the fences cannot be completely anchored and accept the risk accordingly rather than assuming that fences on an XC course for schooling or competing have been made as safe as they can be.


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## kerilli (27 March 2011)

yes, ester is absolutely right. you don't do 'arena xc' at xc speeds. i'm sure horses see it as a glorified sj jump-off with a few tricky brown fences thrown in. it all comes up very quickly and it just doesn't feel like xc. horses know the difference.
sandbags are used, and at some venues the fences are anchored, iirc I read that at the big Express Eventing the fences were anchored to the sort of pallet-system of the flooring. Certainly when poor Cavvy skidded across the top of that huge corner, the fence didn't move.


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## Ginn (27 March 2011)

Absolutely tragic 

I've watched the video several times and from what I can see the horse hit the fence below the chest (i.e. with its legs at the point they join the trunk) so I do believe that in this instance, had the fence been fixed, the horse would have scrabbled over, probably nose-diving into the ground as it is unlikely it would have got its landing gear out, but most likely without flipping onto the rider. HOWEVER, and while I do not doubt that unfixed portables are blooming dangerous, I do believe that there are other incidences where a little give/rotational movement in a fence would have prevented a rotational.... you have to remember that a rotational occurs when the horses forward motion is impeeded by a force applied at a certain "pivot point" on the horses body which results in a moment effect - i.e. the horse rotates. By reducing this opposing force you reduce the likelihood of rotation occurring (and there is some lovely mathematics which one could use to work this out more specifically) so a fence having some "wobble room" isn't necessarily a bad thing but NOT to the extent that is seen in this video.... a 1-2" inches of longitudinal movement to fractionally reduce the horses decelleration upon hitting the fence is all I'm talking about - it have to look at the maths as you wouldn't want so much movement either that it impeeded the horses response to attempt to get its front legs out of the way. Does that make sense? Perhaps an idea would be an anchoring system which allowed for this would be an ideal? Hmmm, I now get the suspicious feeling I could spend my afternoon playing with the maths and physics rather than planning it for my lesson tomorrow!


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## kerilli (27 March 2011)

Ginn, that's really interesting, please do that! Would love to hear your conclusions.


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## brighthair (27 March 2011)

I think I've emailed most centres near me (Lancs). Please anyone who has a free moment, ask/email/ring your local centre and if they DO use secured portables, post it on the FB page, or contact me/kerilli and we can do it. I've kind of decided the best way is to only list those that don't use them, or only use secured ones, as I don't want it to come across that we're (doesn't know who to word this) calling them for not doing. So if you are going somewhere and it's not listed, you'll need to ask them....


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## lialls (27 March 2011)

What about doing small - A5 posters telling people about all the relervant information about the dangers of unfixed protable fences and putting them on peoples windscreens at events?  Dosnt have to be XC events, any events, just to spread the word.  If someone designed the poster and did the writing then i'd be happy to put them up in places.


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## kerilli (27 March 2011)

lialls, that's a good idea. maybe even just an A4 poster of one of the pics of the falls at unfixed portables (still waiting on permission) and a brief explanation and warning, to put up in Sec's tents etc.
right, i need someone to post about this on the ERA forum please. I know it's not mega-busy over there (i wish) but it will be a way of contacting more riders. 
i can't do it because of conflict of interest, because i'm on the ERA committee it would look as if ERA had something to do with my comments etc, whereas actually that's a totally different hat i stick on, if you see what i mean. so, please will an ERA member go over and post about this, link to the fb pics page 
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?f...oto_album_replyhttp://www.eventsphotos.co.uk/
link to the video if you want to but with appropriate serious warning first, link to this page if you want to... 
basically something to raise the profile over there.
N.B. it needs to be made clear that this isn't a B.E. problem, B.E. has strict rules about anchoring all portables and probably the safest xc courses in the world... this is about unfixed portables at XC Schooling venues and unaff event venues.

oh, and if any kind soul could tell me how to use iPhoto on a mac to obscure the face of a rider, I have 4 more pics of problems at unfixed portables, permission to use them for free very kindly given by Jo Prestwich. i'll put them on the Fb page and on here as soon as i can obscure the rider's faces, being trying to work it out for a while, argh!


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## kerilli (27 March 2011)

I've just posted about the FB page, this page, and the pics on fb of the fall at the corner, on Lucinda Green MBE's facebook page, asking for her support for this cause. I know she's a very busy lady but it's worth a try, I doubt there's anyone in the world with a bigger passion or more knowledge about XC matters.
If anyone fancies scooting over there and liking the comments, that might help! 
for some reason i couldn't post on her wall from the "Ban unfixed portable xc fences" page even when logged in as that, no idea why, v annoying!


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## jrp204 (27 March 2011)

I was fence judging at our PC tet, on arrival i nabbed our DC to tell her about this thread, she totally got he wrong end of the stick thinking i was referring to a fall at that very xc course the week before involving a portable that moved, rider and horse fell. Apparently this week there has been a PC DC's meeting about portables and hopefully it will be raised at a more national level, all being well incidents like this will now be avoided.


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## brighthair (27 March 2011)

kerilli said:



			I've just posted about the FB page, this page, and the pics on fb of the fall at the corner, on Lucinda Green MBE's facebook page, asking for her support for this cause. I know she's a very busy lady but it's worth a try, I doubt there's anyone in the world with a bigger passion or more knowledge about XC matters.
If anyone fancies scooting over there and liking the comments, that might help! 
for some reason i couldn't post on her wall from the "Ban unfixed portable xc fences" page even when logged in as that, no idea why, v annoying!
		
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I couldn't see your posrt for some odd reason. Have done a status update on the ban page, and tagged her in it


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## stencilface (27 March 2011)

RIP Elena 

I'm not a BEer - and have tanked round the epworth course (course where the horses legs were stuck in the fence) many times, not even thinking about it - will be ringing them up before I even consider going back there again 

I will post this to someone in my RC - our Area Showcross is at Epworth, and we had one rider fatality last year in the RC   (not at epworth)

My sisters horse fell over a v small portable fence at one unaff xc - we didn't even really think about it tbh, he fell over it onto his knees - sounds like it could have been much worse, even though it was less than 2ft.


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## smellsofhorse (28 March 2011)

that is so shocking and sad.


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## foraday (28 March 2011)

Thank you Kerilli for posting this.

I don't do BE and have only ever done xc unaffiliated but over solid fences.  It never occurred to me about the portables.  

As horrific as the fall was and possibly the death was preventable I am shocked that centres are hiring xc portables in arenas!!!!!!  I will pm you the one!

I will NOT be going back there and worse I had a training session with a BE trainer on the course!

How naive am I!!!! So thank you for pointing it out to us!


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## tricksibell85 (28 March 2011)

Dear god.


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## NeilM (5 April 2011)

This thread needs a bump, as this subject needs to be addressed by organisers, course owners and setters and governing bodies.

These jumps are land mines, just waiting to go off.


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## kerilli (5 April 2011)

Grim but true analogy there. Brings it home again. 

Just to remind everyone, we have a Facebook page about this now at
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Ban-unfixed-portable-XC-fences/201281593228316
with info coming in frequently about which courses always anchor their portables.

a petition at
http://www.petitionbuzz.com/petitions/bandangerousxcfences

and I hear rumblings from some of the big hitters in our sport, that Things Are Being Done about this. Expect to hear things soon...

Meantime, we all need to keep raising awareness, telling our friends, asking wherever we go XC schooling, etc. Some of the reports back from venues are brilliant, along the lines of 

"Even though we no longer hold a BE event our course is still BE accredited and our course designer visits every few months. All our portables are secured and safe to jump" (Gleneagles)
"All our fences whether portable or permanent are built and secured by BE accredited builders. They have since been approved by BE TA and Chief Steward. I hope this answers your query. If you require further clarification - please do not hesitate to get in touch" (Greenfield Farm, Drumclog)
"All of our portables are secured into the ground with pegs/stabs. If we are in the process of moving a jump and it has no yet been secured, it will be taped off so that no one can jump it. I have NEVER and would NEVER allow an unsecured jump to be used" (Holefield in Kelso)

[BIG BIG thanks to EquestrianTrainingEvents for being proactive and contacting all those venues.]

Other venues that get a big tick, having confirmed that they use spirafix anchors and their portables are always anchored down: Somerford, Toomer Farm, Eland Lodge, and various others. All details on fb page.

let's keep it going. 
Three fatalities and one paralysis already (that we know of) due to unfixed portables moving. Lots of anecdotal stories of them moving but horse and rider getting away with it... luckily, because at that point it comes down to pure LUCK, not talent or athleticism or anything else - once your horse is being rapped, inadvertently, by an entire jump.
Let's make sure there aren't any more.


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## smurf (5 April 2011)

Can I please urge you all to contact the schooling venues in your area and ask about thier policy, please don't ask "are they safe" try and be very specific, ie "Are all the portables at your venues that are available to jump archored securely to the ground, and if so by what method"

Then once you hear back either post on the FB page or email/pm me so we can add them to the list of safe schooling venues.
Email info@equestriantrainingevents.co.uk
Thank you


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## Tnavas (6 April 2011)

Kerilli thanks for posting this - a terrible tragedy. I had never ever considered a portable fence tipping like that - I will be checking all ouor PC portables now - we have quite a few.

RIP Elena


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## Starbucks (6 April 2011)

OMG that is horrific!!!


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## applecart14 (6 April 2011)

Amazingly sad and totally horrific but thank you Kerilli for bringing this to our attention.  I shall certainly be thinking twice next time I am faced with jumping portables on fun rides or events.  RIP Elena, and huge huge hugs to anyone who knew her x


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## kerilli (31 March 2012)

Very sorry but I feel this thread needs resurrecting again in light of new information - applestroodle and horse's fall.    
Obviously the message has NOT been learnt in all areas. Unfixed XC fences are extremely dangerous and can be LETHAL.
The video, again, is here:
it is horrible viewing, you have been warned:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BZsk_UL7zM

R.I.P Elena and the others who have died as a result of these.
Let us hope that unfixed portables do NOT have to claim another life before the message hits home...
Please, everyone: be proactive. Ask whether all portables are fixed down before booking XC schooling. If they say "No", ask if non-fixed ones can be signed. 
Please, check courses when you walk them. Don't be afraid to speak up and ask. Better to be a minor nuisance than a statistic...


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## swellhillcottage (31 March 2012)

kerilli said:



			Very sorry but I feel this thread needs resurrecting again in light of new information - applestroodle and horse's fall.    
Obviously the message has NOT been learnt in all areas. Unfixed XC fences are extremely dangerous and can be LETHAL.
The video, again, is here:
it is horrible viewing, you have been warned:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BZsk_UL7zM

R.I.P Elena and the others who have died as a result of these.
Let us hope that unfixed portables do NOT have to claim another life before the message hits home...
Please, everyone: be proactive. Ask whether all portables are fixed down before booking XC schooling. If they say "No", ask if non-fixed ones can be signed. 
Please, check courses when you walk them. Don't be afraid to speak up and ask. Better to be a minor nuisance than a statistic...
		
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(


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## Jnhuk (31 March 2012)

swellhillcottage said:



(
		
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I was talking about this yesterday evening to folks who didn't even think to check re fixing of XC fences when training or competing at unaffiliated ODEs or HT

Quite agree this needs to be kept as an active thread


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## JustMe22 (1 April 2012)

This is terrible. I have to wonder whether fences in SA are regularly fixed down for eventing/hunter trials..will be posting this on my Facebook, as I know the country in general is a bit lax over safety matters.

Poor girl!


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## charleysummer (1 April 2012)

I have seen this before and it brought a tear to my eye, so tragic  R.I.P 

Not sure if this has been mentioned but the fences in arena eventing? what is the safety on those? I have arena evented over about 2'6-3' and know those fences are not fixed


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## kerilli (1 April 2012)

charleysummer said:



			I have seen this before and it brought a tear to my eye, so tragic  R.I.P 

Not sure if this has been mentioned but the fences in arena eventing? what is the safety on those? I have arena evented over about 2'6-3' and know those fences are not fixed
		
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they are usually weighted down with sandbags or anchored somehow, at reputable places anyway. as said above (but i don't expect anyone to read the whole thread again!), arena eventing is more like SJ to the horse, you are not going at anything like xc speeds, and i think most horses realise that the fences aren't solid, they're just brown showjumps. could be wrong obv.


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## TheoryX1 (1 April 2012)

RIP Elena.  'Eventing Roll of Honor' this one roll of honour I really would not wish there to be anymore names added to.  I will admit to some tears at seeing that video, but you were entirely correct to bring this to a wider audience.

I have to be honest, back in the day before my daughter was riding around affiliated xc courses I have seen a few unpleasant things happen with unfixed portables.  One in particular at a local livery yard with an xc course, who used to have 'Have a go xc days'.  We were actually on this yard and thats all I will say.  I have to be honest the lure of a bit of pot hunting at an unaff xc course has been my daughters way once or twice, but I wont let her do it.  She is only 'allowed' to compete around BE courses, or PC courses, which I know are also extremely hot on safety.  Having seen her crash and burn a few times on BE jumps, I shudder to think what would have happened if the jumps were portable.

Oddly enough we are off to PC senior residential camp tomorrow, for 4 days, which I have organised along with our eventing secretary.  Its a venue which has a permanent xc course, and runs BE a few times a year, so all should be well (hopefully).  However, I shall be checking with the EC tomorrow morning that all portables are correctly fixed.


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## rhino (19 April 2012)

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/competitionnews/391/312243.html

Good to see


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## djlynwood (21 May 2013)

Ive ressurected this thread as I feel its very important that more people are made aware of the dangers of unfixed portable fences. 

Im hoping that the more people are aware then the more venues will act to ensure their fences are safe.


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## kirstyhen (21 May 2013)

From this year, our Insurance company refuses to insure our Cross Country unless all portables are fixed with Spirafixes in front. So I would wonder how anywhere is still able to run legitimately with unfixed portables.


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## djlynwood (21 May 2013)

kirstyhen said:



			From this year, our Insurance company refuses to insure our Cross Country unless all portables are fixed with Spirafixes in front. So I would wonder how anywhere is still able to run legitimately with unfixed portables.
		
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Thats interesting and good news too!


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## Rowreach (21 May 2013)

Unfortunately I know of loads of places where portables are still unfixed


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## kerilli (21 May 2013)

Rowreach said:



			Unfortunately I know of loads of places where portables are still unfixed 

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That's bad news. 
Revving up for another Facebook campaign. I do hope that Horse and Hound will consider running another story on it, or is it going to take another terrible fall before they will?


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## Holidays_are_coming (21 May 2013)

Ive spotted a well known BE venue that did not have its portables fixed for schooling fences, its so dangerous


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## AmiRobertson (21 May 2013)

Thank you for bringing this back up. This is something that had never crossed my mind as a safety issue. And I will start xc next year. 
Poor poor girl


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## kerilli (21 May 2013)

Holidays_are_coming said:



			Ive spotted a well known BE venue that did not have its portables fixed for schooling fences, its so dangerous
		
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I know of one too. It really is horribly dangerous. A small unfixed portable is far more dangerous than a properly anchored Advanced fence imho. One is a potential trick to the horse (can rise by 2 feet as it tips), the other is big and obvious.


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## Cleo (21 May 2013)

Hi,
I'm glad you resurrected this post, as I haven't seen it before and hadn't actually ever thought of the dangers of Portable Cross Country Fences before.
It's a huge eye opener. I do hope that they put rules and regulations into place.


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## Rowreach (21 May 2013)

kerilli said:



			That's bad news. 
Revving up for another Facebook campaign. I do hope that Horse and Hound will consider running another story on it, or is it going to take another terrible fall before they will?
		
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I still can't believe the level of blind indifference from "proper" venues, and I hope to God you're not right and that it will take another fall to open their eyes to the danger.  I'm blue in the face from talking about it, and I will not jump an unfixed portable under any circumstances.


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## JFTDWS (21 May 2013)

Cleo said:



			Hi,
I'm glad you resurrected this post, as I haven't seen it before and hadn't actually ever thought of the dangers of Portable Cross Country Fences before.
It's a huge eye opener. I do hope that they put rules and regulations into place.
		
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Every post like this deserves a celebration, imo   I certainly wasn't aware of the risks before I frequented this forum - I used to jump unfixed portables all the time on a local farm ride (and local unaff HT venue).  In fact, I've jumped some of them on that farm ride tackless and in completely stupid circumstances.  

Now I won't go near the things and am obsessive about where I take them schooling (and theoretically competing if we ever get there).  Every person who's educated by this thread being resurrected, or by the facebook page, is an achievement.  

Some venues may be wilfully ignoring the risks, but the more individuals who vote with their entry/schooling fees, the more they will have to adapt.


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## kerilli (21 May 2013)

thanks JFTD.  
ditto Rowreach. 
But we can all make a fuss and get things changed. I did a competition at a BE venue on a non-BE day and 2 of the xc fences were not anchored. I went and found the Organiser and his first comment was "oh... it's not a BE competition, we're okay". 
You can probably imagine how well this went down with me. I think the phrase is "like a cup of cold sick"...  
Then I got "those 2 fences have never caused any problems". 
Nope, I was still an unhappy camper. I mentioned the campaign on here, on Fb, etc... and that I would not run my horse if they were not fixed. I was very polite, but persistent. 
At this point the Organiser said they'd do something about it and went off. I checked and checked and sure enough, those 2 fences had good solid stakes anchoring the fronts, before I went xc...
That's all we all have to do. Make a bit of a fuss where necessary, in a polite way.
If they really won't listen, mention that their insurance will probably be invalid if they have unfixed portables. (Especially if someone has mentioned it and they have refused to fix them down, maybe?!) I wonder if they will literally bet the farm on it... if there's a huge payout and their insurance is void...


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## teapot (21 May 2013)

If there's anyone reading this who is at or knows someone at Brinsbury College, could they please go and check whether the new portables in the field by the train line are fixed?

Whilst they don't look that big (look just like a couple of these: http://www.jumpco.co.uk/catalogue.asp) from a distance (ie when I go past on the train), I'd imagine they could still cause some issues...


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## kerilli (21 May 2013)

teapot said:



			If there's anyone reading this who is at or knows someone at Brinsbury College, could they please go and check whether the new portables in the field by the train line are fixed?

Whilst they don't look that big (look just like a couple of these: http://www.jumpco.co.uk/catalogue.asp) from a distance (ie when I go past on the train), I'd imagine they could still cause some issues...
		
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there are certain styles of fence which particularly lend themselves to tipping up, such as corners, and seats (as in those pics).
just because they are small does not mean they aren't potentially very dangerous if they start tipping. check out the photo i've just reposted on the Ban Unfixed Portable XC Fences facebook wall... a horrific fall over a small fence which tipped and went much higher as it did so, giving the poor pony no chance.


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## teapot (21 May 2013)

It was that photo and size of fence that reminded me to post


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## djlynwood (21 May 2013)

Can we not name the venued that have unfixed portables? 
There are many people, myself included, who do not really know what to look for to check that a fence has been fixed.


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## Buds_mum (21 May 2013)

Terrible vid  

XC local to me has lots of unfixed portables, not safe at all. How is there no regulations for this?!


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## DressageCob (21 May 2013)

I applaud my local Xc, eventing and farm ride venue. Every one of their jumps on the BE course, XC schooling or even on the farm ride are fully secured to the highest standard. If only venues could be like that!


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## JFTDWS (21 May 2013)

djlynwood said:



			Can we not name the venued that have unfixed portables? 
There are many people, myself included, who do not really know what to look for to check that a fence has been fixed.
		
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Actually, a guide to what to look for in a well fixed fence would be really, really useful.

I'd have more confidence to go and make a nuisance of myself with an organiser if I were entirely sure that they weren't going to turn round and laugh at me as I've missed something!


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## weebarney (21 May 2013)

I never knew about this problem, in fact I never realised Xc courses used these fences! I think in future I will email the event organiser to see if they use portables and if they are anchored.


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## daisycrazy (21 May 2013)

If insurers are declining to insure unless portables are fixed then in the event that an unfixed portable causes an accident the insurance cover will be void. This will make it much harder to seek compensation in the event of serious injury/loss or death since a claim will have to be made against the uninsured individual(s) or business responsible for the course, who may not have means to meet a claim (bearing in mind future care costs arising from serious injury can run easily into the hundreds of thousands). So yes it's a good thing that insurers are taking the issue seriously but it also means riders are less protected in the event something goes wrong. 

Even more reason not to jump and to kick up a fuss if the fences are not secured properly.


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## Tiffany (21 May 2013)

OMG poor girl really didn't stand a chance


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## foxy1 (22 May 2013)

Thanks for raising this, I have just checked with a fairly new local cross country schooling venue that all their portables are fixed and had a prompt reply that they are all anchored with spirofix to BE standard which is great news


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## TarrSteps (22 May 2013)

I'm very glad that more people are aware of the risk and keen to agitate for change.

One note though, the next time there is a thread about the costs of eventing and people are tempted to go cheaper, I hope this point gets raised. The anchors are not inexpensive and will necessarily increase costs for organisers. Hopefully people will vote with their sense and not just their wallets.


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## meardsall_millie (22 May 2013)

TarrSteps said:



			One note though, the next time there is a thread about the costs of eventing and people are tempted to go cheaper, I hope this point gets raised. The anchors are not inexpensive and will necessarily increase costs for organisers. Hopefully people will vote with their sense and not just their wallets.
		
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A very good point, well made.  

I've said on here on a number of times that, although I have no problem with anyone trying to find a cheaper way to event (it is blimmin' expensive after all ), I do get somewhat annoyed when I read the comments relating to 'rip-off'  BE and "why on earth would anyone pay those prices when you can often run around the PC event over the same course the following week for a fraction of the price?".  

Well quite - but obviously the PC event wouldn't be running over that course if it hadn't been for the rip-off BE event the week before that had all the safety expense poured into it, paid for by its members.  And if we all took that attitude there would be no BE at all, and possibly not much else in the way of good quality, safe eventing.......


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## kerilli (22 May 2013)

JFTD said:



			Actually, a guide to what to look for in a well fixed fence would be really, really useful.

I'd have more confidence to go and make a nuisance of myself with an organiser if I were entirely sure that they weren't going to turn round and laugh at me as I've missed something!
		
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I'll fish out some photos, give me a sec. The anchors are easy to recognise, honestly.

TS and M_m make a very good point. 
Personally I'd rather pay the extra to be sure of BE level of veterinary cover for my horse, too (horse ambulance in situ etc, how many unaff events hve this?)...  let alone paramedic and doctor cover etc.


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## kerilli (22 May 2013)

This is what to look for:
Pretty standard anchor point on a fence. these MUST be fixed towards the front of the fence NOT the back. If they're on the back only then they can act as a hinge and the fence can still rise. 







I haven't got any pics of properly stakes fences, but you can see if they are fixed down. This of course is even safer than spirafixes (which can still be pulled out of the ground depending on conditions, force etc.) 

This was a previously unfixed portable at a venue I went to.
When I raised the issue, the Organiser put these wooden struts/stakes on (fence would be jumped from left of pic, these are on the back, where they should be... so any force on the fence drives them further in) 






I know they don't look mega-strong and if a horse really 'wore' this fence they'd probably snap, but it's a LOT better than nothing imho...


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## MandyMoo (22 May 2013)

oh my god - horrible  very sad, RIP


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## anna22 (22 May 2013)

I haven't read everyones replies, and mine is only going to mirror many others... but I had never realised the "true" danger of an unfixed fence.  I will be asking and checking fences next time I go out and compete anywhere.  

Am I right in thinking ALL BE and BE training courses are fully pinned etc?


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## kerilli (22 May 2013)

anna22 said:



			I haven't read everyones replies, and mine is only going to mirror many others... but I had never realised the "true" danger of an unfixed fence.  I will be asking and checking fences next time I go out and compete anywhere.  

Am I right in thinking ALL BE and BE training courses are fully pinned etc?
		
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All BE fences are supposed to be properly anchored down. Sometimes they have not been, and falls have occurred, and sometimes anchoring that was thought to be strong enough proved not to be. But it is something they do pay attention to, yes, and if you notice one that has been missed, fgs say something!  
BE training courses? I don't know what you mean, tbh. If it's official BE training with BE instructors then I would think/hope they'd check all portables are fixed.
If it is a venue which runs BE, do NOT assume on non-BE days that all portables are fixed... I know this is NOT the case at some courses.

As far as I know the PC also advocates that portables are always fixed.


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## kerilli (22 May 2013)

Here's another pic:






This is a tricky one. You can't tell from the photo whether this fence was anchored, or not... in fact the 'foot' at the front could be the top of a post sunk 4' in the ground, which would probably withstand a tank running into it, OR it could be the bottom of the jump frame, just resting on the ground. You can only tell by pulling back the grass to check, and/or trying to lift the front of the fence...  hint: if you can move it a mm, a galloping horse will move it a yard or two without difficulty...


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## JFTDWS (22 May 2013)

kerilli said:



			This is what to look for:
Pretty standard anchor point on a fence. these MUST be fixed towards the front of the fence NOT the back. If they're on the back only then they can act as a hinge and the fence can still rise. 







I haven't got any pics of properly stakes fences, but you can see if they are fixed down. This of course is even safer than spirafixes (which can still be pulled out of the ground depending on conditions, force etc.) 

This was a previously unfixed portable at a venue I went to.
When I raised the issue, the Organiser put these wooden struts/stakes on (fence would be jumped from left of pic, these are on the back, where they should be... so any force on the fence drives them further in) 






I know they don't look mega-strong and if a horse really 'wore' this fence they'd probably snap, but it's a LOT better than nothing imho...
		
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Thanks, this is very useful, from my POV at least.  I've never seen spirafixes before so good to know what to look for / be able to identify them when I see them!  I certainly wouldn't have known what to make of the second fence with the struts - it's not anchored down, but as you say, it's an awful lot better than nothing (and I doubt my midget pony could break them, given that his idea of full tilt is nothing compared to that of a fit TB!).




kerilli said:



			Here's another pic:






This is a tricky one. You can't tell from the photo whether this fence was anchored, or not... in fact the 'foot' at the front could be the top of a post sunk 4' in the ground, which would probably withstand a tank running into it, OR it could be the bottom of the jump frame, just resting on the ground. You can only tell by pulling back the grass to check, and/or trying to lift the front of the fence...  hint: if you can move it a mm, a galloping horse will move it a yard or two without difficulty...   

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Hmmm, so would you advocate giving it a bit of a shove to see what happens?  I'd feel very much like I was breaking some etiquette rules doing that


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## Gracie21 (22 May 2013)

Really Shocking. Have shared on my fb & twitter, the more people that are aware the better!


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## kerilli (22 May 2013)

Gracie21 said:



			Really Shocking. Have shared on my fb & twitter, the more people that are aware the better!
		
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Thanks. The shocking pic of the grey flipping over at the corner has gone a bit viral, I'm glad to say. I've just reposted the orginal video on FB for those who have not seen it before. Until you see exactly how fast it can happen, it's easy to think it won't...


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## kerilli (22 May 2013)

JFTD said:



			Thanks, this is very useful, from my POV at least.  I've never seen spirafixes before so good to know what to look for / be able to identify them when I see them!  I certainly wouldn't have known what to make of the second fence with the struts - it's not anchored down, but as you say, it's an awful lot better than nothing (and I doubt my midget pony could break them, given that his idea of full tilt is nothing compared to that of a fit TB!).

Hmmm, so would you advocate giving it a bit of a shove to see what happens?  I'd feel very much like I was breaking some etiquette rules doing that 

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I think the second one is sort-of braced-down, if you hit the top/front of it it would not lift easily. If you watch the vid on the first post of this thread (if you can bear to... it's not gory at all but it is awful to see how easily that ******* fence flips) you'll see the difference...

I have no problem with examining a fence and, if in doubt, giving it a heave to see if it will move. I've only had to do it once or twice, since usually you can see that they wouldn't move a mm. When they do move, all other people walking the course are usually shocked to the core too...
I'd rather look a bit daft for trying to move a xc fence than be on life support... or worse...


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## dafthoss (22 May 2013)

Jftd you wouldn't be the only one giving the fences a bit of a shove, honestly people do all sorts to the fences when they walk the course. 

Just rewatched the video, it doesn't become any easier to watch. But it makes me so appreciative of all the good facilities we have near me, with well built properly secured courses.


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## JFTDWS (22 May 2013)

kerilli said:



			I think the second one is sort-of braced-down, if you hit the top/front of it it would not lift easily. If you watch the vid on the first post of this thread (if you can bear to... it's not gory at all but it is awful to see how easily that ******* fence flips) you'll see the difference...

I have no problem with examining a fence and, if in doubt, giving it a heave to see if it will move. I've only had to do it once or twice, since usually you can see that they wouldn't move a mm. When they do move, all other people walking the course are usually shocked to the core too...
I'd rather look a bit daft for trying to move a xc fence than be on life support... or worse...
		
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I've watched it, it's not pleasant viewing.  The flipping problem is very clearly illustrated in the pic of the grey and I can see that the "strutted" fence is unlikely to flip like that because of them.

Fair point, the worst you can get is a *******ing for shoving the fences about- but if you don't and something happens...  Yep, I will be shoving fences about from now on.

Dafthoss, you do have it very lucky - you're slap bang in the middle of some lovely courses.  The "farm ride" tracks and xc fences near me (you know the ones) scare the life out of me - I've seen how easily those fences move


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## kerilli (22 May 2013)

JFTD said:



			Dafthoss, you do have it very lucky - you're slap bang in the middle of some lovely courses.  The "farm ride" tracks and xc fences near me (you know the ones) scare the life out of me - I've seen how easily those fences move 

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This is a huge problem. Because the fences are small, people think that it doesn't matter that they aren't fixed down. But someone had a paralysing fall at a fence made of oil barrels on their sides that rolled when the horse hit one, and brought the horse down. How high is an oil barrel on its side, 1'3"? So, it's not just the lifting that can cause the horrible fall...

Even very small fences that can rise can be lethal. If they rise a foot or more as the horse hits them, you have NO chance at all of avoiding a fall. 

I am still trying to get permission to use pics of a tipping table, that caused a very nasty fall last year. It was fixed, but only at the back, so the anchors acted like a hinge. Bad knowledge of basic physics, unfortunately. The pics are VERY educational. Rider and horse were okay... just...
I'll ring the tog again later. I've already spoken with him twice and he keeps fobbing me off. He may want paying, if so would anyone be prepared to chip in £1 so I can raise what he wants? It would only be a direct payment to him for use of the image(s) on the fb page and on a couple of articles for e-Venting and HorseJunkiesUnited (and I'm not paid for writing for either, obviously). I've tried appealing to his fellow feeling etc and not gotten anywhere so far. The rider is happy for me to use the photos, which is v v good of her. The venue owner doesn't mind as long as I don't mention the venue... 

I also have permission to use a pic of the awful fall Francis Whittington had last year at Belton CIC*** (but not on here). The 2nd Wishing Well fence was spirafixed down but Francis' horse jumped the first Wishing Well, threw his head in the air, totally ignored the rider and tried to take the second well out by the roots, pulling all the spirafixes clean out of the ground. I was told that BE changed its recommendations on spirafix placement after that. (Now they try to set them at 45 degree angle against direction of travel of horse, rather than straight down, so any force on the fence drives them in MORE securely, rather than lifting them).


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## dafthoss (22 May 2013)

I'll chip in  on which note I see the pictures of you over the pink fences all the time and apart from going ahh I took that, it really makes you aware just what you can get away with when the fences don't move. I'm looking in to buying a series of images of very similar happening to us last year (same venue, different fence) so if the photographer agrees you can use them. 

Those farm ride fences are terrifying, the very people they are aimed at are novice horses or riders and children. Who would be less aware of the dangers and more likely to make a mistake, although obviously mistakes happen at every level.


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## djlynwood (22 May 2013)

I would also be happy to make a contribution.

I feel very strongly about this even though I only jump 2ft...ish (at the moment!) 

Its amazing that I know a lot of people who compete xc and laugh at me when I mention about the unfixed portables. They joke about how heavy the jumps are and that they can not move them. I do point out that they are not a 500kg muscle mass travelling at speed. Its lost on them!

A few have even joked about how a jump moved when they jumped it. I just think that they were lucky that time but the next time could be totally different.

Even though I only jump small, I love what I do and want it to be safe for all whatever the level.


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## JFTDWS (22 May 2013)

Particularly given that the people who jump them aren't taking standard xc precautions (myself included when I used to jump them years ago).  I just looked back at some pics of Fergs jumping them donkeys ages ago and it sends a shiver down my spine - especially as he's not the most proficient jumper in the world.

I'd chip in too, Kerilli.  Though I'm not 100% sure I even want to see them...


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## kerilli (22 May 2013)

dafthoss said:



			I'll chip in  on which note I see the pictures of you over the pink fences all the time and apart from going ahh I took that, it really makes you aware just what you can get away with when the fences don't move. I'm looking in to buying a series of images of very similar happening to us last year (same venue, different fence) so if the photographer agrees you can use them. 

Those farm ride fences are terrifying, the very people they are aimed at are novice horses or riders and children. Who would be less aware of the dangers and more likely to make a mistake, although obviously mistakes happen at every level.
		
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Yes, exactly. I was looking at the pic of me and Daisy again earlier, really looking at it. Thank you for letting me use it everywhere, btw!    
I have racked my brains and since she is NOT untidy in front, I really think she must have stood on her left front overreach boot on take-off, which would explain why that leg didn't come up AT ALL... and why she just about lost all forward momentum over the fence (she landed upright but stationary, as you know!) and why I shot forward and off, as she decelerated so abruptly. 
If you look at the way she hit it, if that fence had been able to lift and flip her up in the air, I very much doubt I'd be sitting here now... It was purely because it didn't move a mm that she was able to stick her leg out and land upright. And some people think unfixed fences are safer!!!! *head in hands moment*
btw. the Pro tog took a great series of about 14 pics of that incident, but I am not prepared to spend a fortune on them, since they aren't for anything other than education... not exactly our finest moment!    
If you can get hold of your pics, I'd love to see them please, would need to know tog had given permission for me to use them on fb and articles etc though obv.


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## Lolo (22 May 2013)

kerilli said:



			I'll fish out some photos, give me a sec. The anchors are easy to recognise, honestly.

TS and M_m make a very good point. 
Personally I'd rather pay the extra to be sure of BE level of veterinary cover for my horse, too (horse ambulance in situ etc, how many unaff events hve this?)...  let alone paramedic and doctor cover etc.
		
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To be fair, it is in the rules for PC events, and RC events, where they have XC that you must have a human ambulance onsite, with qualified paramedics, and a nearby vet and farrier on call for your event. So the difference isn't that much greater- you have to sign off a risk assessment with this stuff in it, so if you don't and something goes wrong your club is screwed...

In terms of BE eventing, the PC event and things tend to bring the venue owners considerably more revenue than the BE events. Especially if they're run by seperate clubs a week or so later- no effort for the venue holder as XC course set up, then the club has to organise everything else and then pay you for it


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## Lolo (22 May 2013)

dafthoss said:



			Jftd you wouldn't be the only one giving the fences a bit of a shove, honestly people do all sorts to the fences when they walk the course. 

Just rewatched the video, it doesn't become any easier to watch. But it makes me so appreciative of all the good facilities we have near me, with well built properly secured courses.
		
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We are fence shovers when walking courses. Since the incident with Reg over the skinny we're paranoid!


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## kerilli (22 May 2013)

djlynwood said:



			I would also be happy to make a contribution.

I feel very strongly about this even though I only jump 2ft...ish (at the moment!) 

Its amazing that I know a lot of people who compete xc and laugh at me when I mention about the unfixed portables. They joke about how heavy the jumps are and that they can not move them. I do point out that they are not a 500kg muscle mass travelling at speed. Its lost on them!

A few have even joked about how a jump moved when they jumped it. I just think that they were lucky that time but the next time could be totally different.

Even though I only jump small, I love what I do and want it to be safe for all whatever the level.
		
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All I can say is, show them the pics of the grey flipping over, and of Daisy NOT flipping over (in spite of, arguably, making a bigger hash of a much bigger fence), and the video...    

Thanks everyone, I'll speak to the tog and see what he says...


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## HazyXmas (22 May 2013)

I am very happy to chip a few pounds in to. This is something i feel very strongly about.

Just wanted to pick up on something you said earlier Kerilli:

Whilst pony club DO advise that all XC fences are securely fixed, it is not compulsory as they don't have the manpower to enforce it. Totally shocking IMO.

I had a big falling out with our local PC last year as i just couldn't believe that the venue where they do camp, rallies & their ODE's doesn't fix the fences. I walked the Open course with my daughter last Easter & both of us were easily able to rock a 3ft 3' box fence. Unbelievably, neither the PC DC or the organiser thought that there was anything wrong.
Needless to say, my daughter didn't take part & we now don't support any PC events, they just don't take safety seriously enough.


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## djlynwood (22 May 2013)

kerilli said:



			All I can say is, show them the pics of the grey flipping over, and of Daisy NOT flipping over (in spite of, arguably, making a bigger hash of a much bigger fence), and the video...    

Thanks everyone, I'll speak to the tog and see what he says...
		
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I do want to make them all aware, thats why I posted on the fb page about raising awareness as the season is underway.


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## kerilli (22 May 2013)

Ah, so that was you! Thanks.   
I kind of put this on the back burner for a while because I got discouraged, by unhelpful 'togs and 1 stroppy venue owner. I was v polite but all they are worried about is their livelihoods, not the overall picture, unfortunately.


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## dafthoss (22 May 2013)

kerilli said:



			Yes, exactly. I was looking at the pic of me and Daisy again earlier, really looking at it. Thank you for letting me use it everywhere, btw!    
I have racked my brains and since she is NOT untidy in front, I really think she must have stood on her left front overreach boot on take-off, which would explain why that leg didn't come up AT ALL... and why she just about lost all forward momentum over the fence (she landed upright but stationary, as you know!) and why I shot forward and off, as she decelerated so abruptly. 
If you look at the way she hit it, if that fence had been able to lift and flip her up in the air, I very much doubt I'd be sitting here now... It was purely because it didn't move a mm that she was able to stick her leg out and land upright. And some people think unfixed fences are safer!!!! *head in hands moment*
btw. the Pro tog took a great series of about 14 pics of that incident, but I am not prepared to spend a fortune on them, since they aren't for anything other than education... not exactly our finest moment!    
If you can get hold of your pics, I'd love to see them please, would need to know tog had given permission for me to use them on fb and articles etc though obv.
		
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No problem, if it makes one person stop and think then its all good and I was just playing about with my new camera any way. 

I think if the fence had moved then she would have landed on her face and its not even worth thinking about what could have happened to you. She did very well to avoid stepping on you as it was and to save her self. 

I'll see if I can send you a link to them if they are still on the website, I'm only interested in buying them as I'm still rather impressed with my superglue bum . He was just distracted by the fence judge getting out of her car, slamming the door and shouting, no over reach or any thing, which goes to show how easy it is for these things to happen. 



Lolo said:



			We are fence shovers when walking courses. Since the incident with Reg over the skinny we're paranoid!
		
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Yep, wander up to fence, shove, check ground and dimensions are fairly standard practice when walking. I think its quite a good little club to be in. Unless your with my mum who stands as far away as possible and asks if I'm really going to jump that, yep, are you sure he _can_ jump that, yep.... but wouldn't you rather jump this one? *points to smallest fence she can find* nope  She doesn't come with me very much these days.


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## JFTDWS (22 May 2013)

dafthoss said:



			Yep, wander up to fence, shove, check ground and dimensions are fairly standard practice when walking. I think its quite a good little club to be in. Unless your with my mum who stands as far away as possible and asks if I'm really going to jump that, yep, are you sure he _can_ jump that, yep.... but wouldn't you rather jump this one? *points to smallest fence she can find* nope  She doesn't come with me very much these days.
		
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My mother spends the entire time saying "but it's so solid"   Yes mother, that's the point   Took a lot of explaining as to why fixed is better than unfixed as she thought it moving / giving way if the horse hits it would be a good think


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## Rowreach (22 May 2013)

Kerilli is that the table fence that featured in a thread on here last year?  I remember a user arguing that portables didn't need fixing on that one


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## kerilli (22 May 2013)

dafthoss said:



			I think if the fence had moved then she would have landed on her face and its not even worth thinking about what could have happened to you. She did very well to avoid stepping on you as it was and to save her self. 

I'll see if I can send you a link to them if they are still on the website, I'm only interested in buying them as I'm still rather impressed with my superglue bum . He was just distracted by the fence judge getting out of her car, slamming the door and shouting, no over reach or any thing, which goes to show how easy it is for these things to happen.
		
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Well, she stopped dead about 4' from me, I think, as I sat up all I could see was her front legs. Clever girl. 
Of course, this did make me rather bewildered when the fence judge assured me that she had definitely NOT gone over the fence, but never mind!   

Would love to see the photos, please.  Your glue was obv a lot better than mine! 



dafthoss said:



			Yep, wander up to fence, shove, check ground and dimensions are fairly standard practice when walking. I think its quite a good little club to be in. Unless your with my mum who stands as far away as possible and asks if I'm really going to jump that, yep, are you sure he _can_ jump that, yep.... but wouldn't you rather jump this one? *points to smallest fence she can find* nope  She doesn't come with me very much these days.
		
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My mother used to do exactly that too. At Advanced level you really really really do NOT need to hear a seriously worried/incredulous "Do you really think Dottie can get over that?"  After a while she was only allowed to look at the XC fences after I'd been round...


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## kerilli (22 May 2013)

Rowreach said:



			Kerilli is that the table fence that featured in a thread on here last year?  I remember a user arguing that portables didn't need fixing on that one 

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It might have been, I didn't have permission to use it so I didn't post it, but I dimly remember that someone else might have. 
It's a really horrid sequence of pictures. Horse (experienced at Novice horse and rider, fwiw) had no chance at all...


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## kerilli (22 May 2013)

JFTD said:



			My mother spends the entire time saying "but it's so solid"   Yes mother, that's the point   Took a lot of explaining as to why fixed is better than unfixed as she thought it moving / giving way if the horse hits it would be a good think 

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The thing is, she's sort-of right, to a point...
I love the frangible pins. I love that they prevent falls and probably save lives. Ditto the deformable logs and the MIMs. 
(Although, if that upright at Badminton into the 'coffin' hadn't had frangibles on it, if it had been a totally solid upright 3'9" 'clear me or else' fence, I wonder how differently the riders might have ridden it...)   

But the whole point about these 'designed to give way' fences is that they are very very carefully designed to give way only in a VERY specific direction (downwards, obviously!) The LAST thing you ever want is a fence that can get BIGGER in any possible way if the horse hits it, or one that can tumble under the horse...  and this is what unfixed portables can do. Even tiny ones.
We just need to educate more people that safely anchored solid is much better than 'might tip your unwitting horse up on top of you in 1 second flat'.


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## JFTDWS (22 May 2013)

kerilli said:



			The thing is, she's sort-of right, to a point...
		
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Oh don't get me wrong, I do know that the fact they're solid makes them inherently dangerous...   It does nothing for your confidence when walking a course / xc schooling to hear it over and over though!


eta - I explained frangible pins to her while watching Badminton and now she says it all the time - it's her new favourite word...  Is it obvious she isn't horsey?


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## kerilli (22 May 2013)

JFTD said:



			Oh don't get me wrong, I do know that the fact they're solid makes them inherently dangerous...   It does nothing for your confidence when walking a course / xc schooling to hear it over and over though!


eta - I explained frangible pins to her while watching Badminton and now she says it all the time - it's her new favourite word...  Is it obvious she isn't horsey? 

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oh gosh, I should try it on my mum, try to get her over her 'oh, but she's got such a beautiful tail' fixation...


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## JFTDWS (22 May 2013)

kerilli said:



			oh gosh, I should try it on my mum, try to get her over her 'oh, but she's got such a beautiful tail' fixation...   

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## dafthoss (22 May 2013)

kerilli said:



			Well, she stopped dead about 4' from me, I think, as I sat up all I could see was her front legs. Clever girl. 
Of course, this did make me rather bewildered when the fence judge assured me that she had definitely NOT gone over the fence, but never mind!   

Would love to see the photos, please.  Your glue was obv a lot better than mine! 

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Pm'd you a link, think you have possibly seen them before as I did link them at the time. 

Small ponies do rather cement your glue  



kerilli said:



			My mother used to do exactly that too. At Advanced level you really really really do NOT need to hear a seriously worried/incredulous "Do you really think Dottie can get over that?"  After a while she was only allowed to look at the XC fences after I'd been round... 

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Think I'd have thrown up on her had she mentioned it walking an advance course . She was forced to video me out the start to the trees then she was allowed to hide. She thought we were having major issues as Lolo's sister was in front of us on her horse somethings up, which had my mum panicking when ever the commentator mentioned it . She's not allowed to stay at home either though as both times she stayed at home she ended up in hospital, but she doesn't course walk these days. 



JFTD said:



			My mother spends the entire time saying "but it's so solid"   Yes mother, that's the point   Took a lot of explaining as to why fixed is better than unfixed as she thought it moving / giving way if the horse hits it would be a good think 

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If I weren't so useless with computers I'd steal the sound track off the videos of our mums chatting about it. Its very funny listening. 



JFTD said:



			eta - I explained frangible pins to her while watching Badminton and now she says it all the time - it's her new favourite word...  Is it obvious she isn't horsey? 

Click to expand...




kerilli said:



			oh gosh, I should try it on my mum, try to get her over her 'oh, but she's got such a beautiful tail' fixation...   

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Can we have a non horsey mums meet up? it would be brilliant listening to them and then your mum could convince mine that what we are jumping really isn't big.


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## MillyMoomie (22 May 2013)

Sends awful chills. When I think about how many portable XC fences I have jumped. 
RIP. all over in the blink of an eye. 

OP thankyou for drawing our attention to this.


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## DressageCob (22 May 2013)

I gave a roll top a shove at an unaffiliated venue...it rolled away  

I had to retrieve it from down a little hill. Needless to say I did not take part 




I did tell the organisers...they just said they were going to check the course later (this course walk was about 30 mins before the class!)


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## MagicMelon (22 May 2013)

This may have been mentioned already but please forgive me for not reading through 11 pages  

Could someone confirm exactly what we should be looking for with regard to fixing a portable?  Is it stakes at the front or the back (or both?), should the stakes be a specific width (obviously flimsy little stakes would do nothing)?  Photos would be great to see what IS acceptable and what is NOT.  Thanks!


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## kerilli (22 May 2013)

i put 3 big pics on page 6.    
the fence MUST be fixed at the front not just the back. if it's a schooling fence to be jumped both ways, both sides of it MUST be fixed. Otherwise the fixings can act as a hinge allowing the front to lift...
really big stakes in the earth (the best way of all) won't be visible but the fence will feel rock-solid, obv.


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## lindsayH (22 May 2013)

I too have shared a link on facebook and would be happy to chip in a few quid to the fund. Hopefully this video has helped to raise awareness over the last couple of years and will continue to do so.


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## Starbucks (22 May 2013)

That is so scary!  Kind of puts you off a bit!

Poor girl and her family.


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## sarahann1 (23 May 2013)

That poor lass and her poor family  

I've shared the pic on the grey horse on my local RCs FB page, hopefully it helps with your campaign. You're doing brilliant work Kerilli, have you considered doing talks at RCs etc, I think you'd be great at it (well, you come across very well on here, I'm sure it's the same in real life). Would the BHS fund something like that? I would hope so.


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## kerilli (23 May 2013)

sarahann1 said:



			That poor lass and her poor family  

I've shared the pic on the grey horse on my local RCs FB page, hopefully it helps with your campaign. You're doing brilliant work Kerilli, have you considered doing talks at RCs etc, I think you'd be great at it (well, you come across very well on here, I'm sure it's the same in real life). Would the BHS fund something like that? I would hope so.
		
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haha thanks, but no, public speaking isn't my favourite thing! Tbh if/when I get permission to use the other really good photos I hope that they will go viral too, and a picture (and a brief explanation of how to check the fences) is worth more than 10,000 words from me... 
The internet's great. We can reach more people through HHO, Twitter and Facebook, and websites like e-Venting and HorseJunkiesUnited, in 1 day, than 1 person doing talks could reach in a year!    

Or we can just wait for someone else to have a horrific fall and hope there isn't a cover-up, and then it'll be in the mainstream equestrian press again...


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## sarahann1 (23 May 2013)

kerilli said:



			Or we can just wait for someone else to have a horrific fall and hope there isn't a cover-up, and then it'll be in the mainstream equestrian press again...
		
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Lets hope it doesn't come to that, I'll keep an eye out for pics and share everywhere I can.


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## Fanatical (23 May 2013)

What happens at arena eventing comps such as JAS. They use XC portables and presumably don't get fixed down?


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## kerilli (23 May 2013)

Fanatical said:



			What happens at arena eventing comps such as JAS. They use XC portables and presumably don't get fixed down?
		
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Usually they are careful with the profiles of the fences they use, since some are much more/less likely to tip than others. They often use sandbags etc inside the front edge, better than nothing. Some are properly fixed down, I think.
However, I believe a young girl was killed arena eventing a year or two ago...


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## TableDancer (23 May 2013)

kerilli said:



			However, I believe a young girl was killed arena eventing a year or two ago...   

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And a young girl was killed at a X pole in a SJ warm-up earlier this year.

I support this campaign whole-heartedly, and am all in favour of ensuring the proper anchoring of portables XC but I think we all have to remember that it is a question of managing and mitigating risk to reach an acceptable level, rather than eliminating it altogether. As you said, organisers of arena XC will try to reduce the risks as best they can, after that it is up to us whether we choose to take part or not. Failure to anchor portables XC is a different kettle of fish because in this situation organisers have NOT done all they can to reduce the risks - thus potentially being negligent...


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## JFTDWS (23 May 2013)

kerilli said:



			This is what to look for:
Pretty standard anchor point on a fence. these MUST be fixed towards the front of the fence NOT the back. If they're on the back only then they can act as a hinge and the fence can still rise. 







I haven't got any pics of properly stakes fences, but you can see if they are fixed down. This of course is even safer than spirafixes (which can still be pulled out of the ground depending on conditions, force etc.) 

This was a previously unfixed portable at a venue I went to.
When I raised the issue, the Organiser put these wooden struts/stakes on (fence would be jumped from left of pic, these are on the back, where they should be... so any force on the fence drives them further in) 






I know they don't look mega-strong and if a horse really 'wore' this fence they'd probably snap, but it's a LOT better than nothing imho...
		
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Bumping up / highlighting pics given the q on the thread about the fence at Samur


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