# failed flexion test- do I buy it?



## 7924 (22 November 2009)

I am looking at a pony Saturday and have been told it would not pass a flexion test.  The pony is 7 years old and owner had it from birth and doesn't know why.  Never looked into it because not been a problem.  Do I even consider buying it?


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## millitiger (22 November 2009)

what do you want the pony for?

has it failed a flexion test recently?

if you like the pony  would get your own vet to do the vetting and flexion tests and take it from there.

many, many horses can fail flexion tests one week with one vet and pass the next week with a different vet!


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## 7924 (22 November 2009)

SHow jumping is what i like doing and it looks like this is what it is good at so can't be too much of a problem can it?
Lady selling it says it wouldn't pass, at least she is being honest.  Someone told me it could be first signs of arthritus but not at 7 surely?


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## luckilotti (22 November 2009)

i would be seriously asking the owner why they think it wont pass?  do the parents of the pony have problems that may have been passed down?
I bought a horse who failed a flexon test in approx 1998, i had some good years with him before retiring him in 2005.


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## spacefaer (22 November 2009)

why does she think it won't pass?

Go see the pony, if you like it and it's sound when you try it, get it vetted and see what your independent vet says.

Comes down to price also - if the pony's price reflects the fact it won't pass the vet..... if it's cheap enough to take the risk of buying - and knowing that you won't be able to sell on for any more money .....

You'd have to like the pony a lot and be prepared to keep him....


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## hellybelly6 (22 November 2009)

A lot of horses wouldnt pass a flexion test.  I wouldnt pass a flexion test as I have arthritis.

I would ask the lady why she doesnt think it would pass and look at the pony being trotted in hand from front and behind and take somebody knowledgable with you.

If you like what you see and the pony rides nicely, I would have it vetted and see what it shows.

My horse would not have passed a vetting and had bone spavin aged 10, he is 16 now, we cannot jump and do not trot on the roads or hard ground, but otherwise he is normal.


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## 7924 (22 November 2009)

The lady doesn't know why, I asked.  It goes to shows always passed vet inspections at events.  Will I be able to sell it?  The price is a reflection of the fact it wont pass, still £3,000. I am fairly new to riding and don't want to make a huge mistake.


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## soulfull (22 November 2009)

when you say 'she doesn't know do you mean she doesn' tknow why it would fail the flexion test'?  or she doesn't know if it would pass.
She must have some knowledge to know it wouldn't pass  i.e  either someone had it vetted and it failed on the test or her own vet has looked at it for some reason

She can't for no reason just think 'oh this pony won't pass a flexion test'  There has to be a reason for her to think that  and this is WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW

also it is important how many strides after a flexion test that is takes lame.
It would still be worth getting a 2 stage vetting to make sure things were not much worse than you were led to believe

Please do not just take this womans word for things!!!   You would not believe how nice and honest people seem especially in the horse world there are far more liars than there are honest people selling horses!!  

We are lucky on HH  most people seem lovely, but in reality the horse world is not like us.

I am fairly experienced and have recently found a nice horse, however I could tell you some real horror stories of how I could have easily got conned,  INdeed I did have to return one horse to a sale as it was not as it was supposed to be,  you don't get to do that with private sales


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## Daisychain (22 November 2009)

If the horse has always been sound for the purpose and the price was right i wouldnt be massively over worried tbh.

I have known many horses fail flexions and be fine.

One example was a few years ago, my sister in law managed to buy an intermediate eventer for 3k because of failed flexions (it was on for 12k), he was around 11 when she bought him.  He did everything asked without a days lameness.

She sold him at 15 he passed a full vetting and she got 5k for him.


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## Louby (22 November 2009)

My horse failed miserably on his left fore flexion test and he was a just backed 4 yr old.  I walked away and ended up going back and buying him!!  He wasnt expensive but hes now 10yrs old and apart from fracturing that leg!! hasnt had a days lameness.  Touching wood frantically.
Has she tried to sell before and the pony has failed a flexion test, if not, how does she know he will fail on it.
Incidently, my horse was flexioned on the same leg out of interest months later and he passed.  
Unless she knows theres something really wrong, he may well pass if vetted again.  Please remember if he fails, you may struggle with insuring that leg.  When I bought my horse insurers wanted a vets certificate if the horses value was £5k+ but Ive heard this is now lower.  There is a question on the insurance proposal form asking if the horse has a vets certificate (or was) so beware if you get him vetted and buy as you should really declare it, if he fails.  Stupid really cos if you didnt have him vetted no one would be the wiser.
On a plus note, My vet says any vet came make a horse lame with this depending on how the joint is flexed.


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## MochaDun (23 November 2009)

Like others say, you need to know from owner why she's saying that it will fail a flexion test.  My vetting for my pony was stopped after the flexion test as it produced almost imperceptible lameness on one back leg.  Vet suggested could either be early arthritis but as so mild might be worth the owner getting back checked.  She did and turned out to be due to that.  Horse was treated and vet returned a few weeks later and completed the vetting and signed him off as fit for purchase/purpose.  

I've known other people where one vet has failed a horse on a flexion test and so they've had it re-vetted with another vet and horse has passed.  There are some grey areas with flexion tests methinks so all may not be lost in your case though proceed with caution and try and get to the bottom of what the owner is saying.


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## Worried1 (23 November 2009)

Before we found Diva we had a lovely Blue and White gelding vetted.

We tried him  twice, hacked him, schooled him and jumped him. He looked perfectly sound and in my eyes absolutely perfect.

He catastrophically failed on a hind flexion. The then owner was devastated she had purchased him from his breeder in Ireland and had him vetted herself - which he had passed.

As we had used our vet she got a second opinion from her vet, who confirmed he was 'not sound' following a flexion test, it turned out when they scanned the hindleg he had a very small tear to his susepnsory. 

She turned him away for 6 months but the hole never repaired and the last I heard she had sold him very cheaply to someone who was prepared to wait and turn him away for a couple of years and take a gamble on that leg.

My advice is at least investigate - if vets can find no reason then so be it some horses don't pass flexion test. However we could have made a very costly mistake if we had gone ahead knowing he had failed. Added to which insurers would have not insured the leg.


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## Persephone (23 November 2009)

I wouldn't worry too much. I am fit and healthy but if someone bent my knee double then made me run in a straight line I couldn't do it lol!

My mare failed on it. I had her x rayed when I got her home to double check and the x rays were clear.


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## Munchkin (23 November 2009)

I agree - you need to find out why - get it vetted by your own vet.

On the other side of the coin, I bought a horse that passed his flexion tests with flying colours and within a month was crippled lame with an issue that it turned out started before I bought him.  It's not a guarantee of anything - a vetting is only good for the day the horse is vetted.


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## luckilotti (23 November 2009)

i really think i would back away from this one.
How can the seller say she doesnt think it will pass a flexion test but cant give you a reson why she thinks that?  To me, shes hiding something as she MUST know why she thinks it will fail!


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## gemma236 (23 November 2009)

Alot of horses don't pass flexion tests, I feel they are a bit harsh to be fair.  If the owner says she won't pass she may just have early signs of arthritis....which means she might cost you a few more pennies in the long run but might do your job.  Go try it, ask the woman outright why it won't pass, see what you think when you ride it...ask her if she has used bute or similar, when/if she ever goes lame and why etc.....then try calling in unexpectedly for another look to see how sound the pony is.  We have refused vettings before for making horses lame due to lunging unfit youngsters round and round on a hard surface.


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## Murphy88 (23 November 2009)

Agree with everyone else - get it vetted. What would concern me is that there is obviously a reason she thinks this pony will fail, and TBH at 7 years old that would worry me slighty. You can't really say the pony may 'just' have early signs of arthritis - if it has arthritis at 7, then it probably won't be that old when it reaches the point of being unrideable, and you may well end up with a pony you can't sell.

On placement this summer I saw a pony who had failed it's vetting on flexion tests. The owner had gone ahead and bought it, and the pony promptly went lame a month later, and of course wasn't insured for the resulting lameness work ups. So while I'm sure many horses fail a flexion test and remain sound forever, its important to consider what might happen if it doesn't stay sound - would you be prepared to end up with a field ornament who was perhaps only mid teens?


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## jenh166 (23 November 2009)

If she knows it won't pass, she must know there's either a current problem, or a problem in the past. Could be anything from arthritis (yes even at 7), suspensory ligament injury, OCD lesion, a slightly croocked leg putting pressure on a particular joint.

I'd tread very carefully and def get you vet to THOPROUGHLY check it over and give their opinion.

I wouldn't get it unless I had a v limited budget and horse was exceptional, as you'll have problems insuring it, and it will always be niggling in the back of your mind whenever horse has an 'off' day...


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## MurphysMinder (24 November 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
The lady doesn't know why, I asked.  It goes to shows always passed vet inspections at events.  Will I be able to sell it?  The price is a reflection of the fact it wont pass, still £3,000. I am fairly new to riding and don't want to make a huge mistake. 

[/ QUOTE ]

What size pony is it?  I may be out of touch with prices but £3,000 seems quite a lot for a pony that won't pass the vet.


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## luckilotti (24 November 2009)

i really would find another.
a seller cannot say a comment like it will fail and not give a reason why.
Plus £3k does sound a lot.  There are so many horses and ponies out there for sale.  
It would ok more acceptable if she gave you the reason why the pony will prob fail a flexion test, as then you could make an informed decision.


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## HannaBones (25 November 2009)

Sounds a bit fishy to me! You have to remember that flexion tests are very non-specific, several different joints and soft-tissue structures are being flexed at the same time, so any resulting lameness in the trot up could be caused by 101 different things!! 7yo does seem young for age-related problems such as spavins or joint disease, but then if this is a jumping pony then these things can be accelerated. Go and see the pony with your instructor or someone knowledgeable but have it trotted up for you before you ride it, and try not to fall in love with it!!


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## bailey14 (25 November 2009)

I think the flexion test is subjective and I know the BVA (British Veterinary Association) were at one point discussing whether to abolish it from the five stage vetting as it can carry dodgy results that don't necessary mean a problem.  Hold your leg in the air for a minute then run and see if you have a problem with your stride and you will know what I mean.  That said there is a difference between a bit of numbness and funny stride for a few yards due to the leg held at such an angle and complete lameness and the vet should know the difference and be able to comment accordignly.


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## catembi (27 November 2009)

Get the hocks x-rayed?  My ISH is 7 &amp; about to be written off due to spavin.  He did pass a 5 stage at the age of 4 nearly 5, but with intermittent 1/10 lameness when lunged on concrete in a small circle.

How I wish I'd spent a few hundred on x rays rather than taking the vet's word for it that most horses are unlevel under such circumstances, then I wouldn't have wasted £8.5k on a horse which is now extremely unlikely to BD let alone BSJA again.


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## fitzaud2 (3 December 2009)

I would run a mile, as there has to be a reason for the seller to say that.  We went looking for a horse for my sister last year, found a lovely grey mare.  She was impeccably well mannered, great in traffic, we brought her into a 40 acre field for a gallop, and she didn't take a pull, we really thought we had found the perfect horse.  Had her vetted, and she failed the flexion test, just barely, hardly noticable.  Phoned the guy who owned her, and he wanted the name of the vet, was extremely angry. Anyway, got her x-rayed and she had a fractured pelvis.  We didn't take the chance of buying her, as, known our luck, she'd have spent most of her life lame. 

There are so many horses and ponies out there, I'd keep looking


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## Daisychain (3 December 2009)

Don't write your horse off catembi, nature is a wonderful healer.

Give him 6/12mths off and try again, he is still young enough for his body to sort.

My vet advised me to have my eventer pts with Navicular.  I have gone the barefoot route and he is SOUND!  Im not holding my breath to much, but its looking good.


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