# Primitive Proposal and Mill Law - progeny temperament?



## meardsall_millie (25 March 2009)

I'm currently considering 2 horses (4yo) by the above stallions and am interested to views/thoughts on their progenies temperament, trainability, handling, etc, etc.

Any comments gratefully received - happy to receive PMs if preferred.  Thanks.


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## BigRed (25 March 2009)

I understand that Mill Law is something of a saint and that he passes this to his babies.  I don't know about PP.


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## scotsmare (25 March 2009)

Have met a couple of Mill Law babies and their temperaments have been lush.


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## eventrider23 (25 March 2009)

Mill Law over PP every time....PP himeself has a very very sharp temperament, hence he never did much in the ring himself.  I also knew and know of 2 of his maternal sisters and they are all equally sharp.


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## Drum (25 March 2009)

I have a Mill Law 2 year old and he was a saint from birth, very sweet temperament and loves attention.  

Also Mill Law himself was very chilled and good natured when I met him.


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## meardsall_millie (25 March 2009)

That's interesting er23 - you don't happen to know of any of his (PP) progeny do you?  I'm told the mare I'm looking at is quite relaxed and easy to do - I wonder if she's picked up her mum's temperament instead?!


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## elizabeth1 (25 March 2009)

I have a Mill Law yearling and she is so easy to handle, she is sensible and quick to learn so I would recommend Mill Law.


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## ihatework (25 March 2009)

We have a young PP on my yard. She is a bit tempremental and sharp, doesn't show much of a jumping technique and has god awful front limb confo.
It wouldn't inspire me to rush and look at the stallion although I appreciate that is very unfair of me as this mares dam could have been a shocker for all I know.


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## millitiger (25 March 2009)

i have a PP baby (rising 3) and he is super in every way.

he has a beautiful temperament, is almost too laidback and too much of a softy- it is quite hard to get him energized to do anything that required effort!

he was the ugliest foal in the world but has blossomed into a stunning young horse- i have had countless blank cheque offers for him.
he has 3 amazing paces and is a loose, athletic sort of horse who really turns heads.

he is out of a Criminal Law x ID mare so should be quite sharp with Primitive Rising and CL but as i said, he is almost horizontal!

if you are going to see both 4yros i would advise to just judge on what you see in front of you and not worry too much about urban myths surrounding certian bloodlines.


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## meardsall_millie (25 March 2009)

Thanks for that.  Yes I agree about looking at what's in front of you but you hear so many comments about the sire I just had to ask!  

I suppose at the end of the day much of it comes down to a kind of 'breeding snobbery' (if you see what I mean!!) - and no offence is intended to anyone


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## brackenspa (25 March 2009)

We had a super PP colt who is now rising 3 - remains an entire and is destined to go eventing. He was the nicest foal, very easy to do and co-operative.  He was out of a Silver patriarch mare so full TB.

It comes down to both sire and dam at the end of the day!


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## eventrider23 (25 March 2009)

As far as I am aware his foals have had lovely temps and have been doing VERY well in BEF classes.  However I would be very careful on who I bred the mare to as at the end of the day his dam line is VERY sharp as is he and so it could well be skipping a generation in his foals.


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## christine48 (28 March 2009)

Mill law's stock's performances speak for themselves, however they have been professionally produced. In another thread someone else has commented that Primitive proposal was sharp and his sister proved unridable. he also retired from eventing at a very early stage so is unproven.


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## Truly (28 March 2009)

I've got a  PP 4yo TB filly that I bred who is a sweetheart...easy going and nothing worries her. She's the bay on the left of my siggy.
I'd consider the temperaments of the dams before blaming PP


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## eventrider23 (29 March 2009)

No one is blaming PP himself, however it is a fact that he and his two *maternal* half sisters all have similar temperaments, all were incredibly talented (no on is saying they aren't) and could have made it round Badminton on talent alone in a heartbeat however the simple fact is that they were not trainable, the mare's even more so as both mares were by the same stallion and as such full sisters, whereas they only shared the same dam as PP.  All 3 of them retired from comp at a young age.  The dam sire, Hoarwithy, is reknowned for being very sharp but talented and this comes out in his descendants.  

I love the look of PP and based on him alone I would use him in a heartbeat as the foals he is throwing are excellent and the Futurity results show this, however based on intimate aquaintence with one sister (I helped break her in as a 4 yr old and worked with her right up to an 8 yr old when she was having issues) and knowledge of the other sister as well as having spoken to a lot of people who were very very aquainted with PP when he was first out competing, I would be hard pushed to use him, as much as I want to, unless he proves himself through his progeny a bit more when they themselves are out competing at a high level.


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## Truly (30 March 2009)

I can only comment on my own filly and also from the owners of other PP babies I've met..they've all been positive 
	
	
		
		
	


	




...the only negatives I've heard are people coming up to me and asking 'if' my filly is sharp because she's by PP because they'd 'heard' PP babies were sharp. So the only positives have been first hand and the negatives 4th,5th etc. hand.
I didn't see him out eventing so can't comment there but do wonder if mixing his stud duties and competing the same year whilst still green was a factor to his sharpness/trainability?
Have you heard what the temperaments of With Loves other foals were like?
I believe she has an advanced eventer in Switzerland.
I'm not doubting the filly you knew was difficult just don't want to see PP get a bad name when there are a lot of happy PP baby owners out there 
	
	
		
		
	


	




My fillies dam is by Cruise Missile and I'd heard rumours that he threw difficult stock yet I used him twice and both were easy.
But like someone else said 'look at the horse in front of you' because just because one relative (or a couple) is reportably 'sharp' doesn't mean the other 100 are 
	
	
		
		
	


	




I'm not argueing btw just saying my filly's a good 'un


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## eventrider23 (30 March 2009)

Truly - the 2 mare's I was talking about in the above post were both out of With Love.  The were maternal Half sisters to PP as the two of them were both by The Outlaw, whereas PP is by Primitive Rising.  All 3 of them (PP and his two sisters) are very very similar in looks, talent and temp.  The sisters are the SWEETEST horses in the world to handle and do stuff on the ground with but became very very hard to ride...to the point of one starting to flip over backwards.  PP is NOT as bad as that at all, however he is very sharp and this is a family trait and this info came directly from people who would be very in the know with him.  His foals have not inherited this so it seems, however I would be very wary of using him on sharp mares.

I don't want to argue and I honestly would use this boy in a shot if I was sure of him as I adore him himself, however till his progeny are out competing beyond novice consistently then I just wouldn't personally.....  I am not trying to give him a bad name at all but the above experience is 1st hand experience of one sister and direct 2nd hand experience of PP and the other sister.


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## ASM2 (30 March 2009)

Eventrider - it'll be interesting to see how PP's youngstock do out competing but second Truly re his babies - all I've met have been very obliging and sweet and why we've put our mare in foal to PP - due in a month 
	
	
		
		
	


	








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Truly - I did a little googling of PP before using him last year and remember your blog. Lovely pics and great results inhand. Many congratulations, she looks fantastic. What are your plans for her?


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## eventrider23 (30 March 2009)

ASM2 - Nothing will thrill me more than to see PP's progeny out competing!!!  Believe me....I do LOVE the look of him and them and nothing would give me greater pleasure than to see them doing well at a higher level!!!


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## Truly (1 April 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
Eventrider - it'll be interesting to see how PP's youngstock do out competing but second Truly re his babies - all I've met have been very obliging and sweet and why we've put our mare in foal to PP - due in a month 
	
	
		
		
	


	








.

Truly - I did a little googling of PP before using him last year and remember your blog. Lovely pics and great results inhand. Many congratulations, she looks fantastic. What are your plans for her? 

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you so much 
	
	
		
		
	


	




I plan to event her myself and just have lots of fun with her doing a bit of everything 
	
	
		
		
	


	




...it won't be her fault if she doesn't go above Novice but mine..I know my limitations lol..I'm not as young and as brave as I used to be!
I bred her to keep and ride myself and continue her dam line (I just lost her granny aged 34yo in November 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 )
I'm backing her at the moment..it's been a bit stop start because of the weather since Christmas and I'm doing it all myself and I have a busy yard to run and covering mares &amp; foaling soon. But I sat on her and walked her round two days ago and she didn't bat an eyelid 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 ...which was good as I hadn't done anything with her for three weeks. My BF is the only one that can help me get on as she's about 16.3hh and I'm 5'1" and he isn't experienced. Hope to have a bit  more time now to be consistent with her.

Good luck with your PP baby..fingers crossed for a safe foaling


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## ASM2 (2 April 2009)

thank you and good luck with Truly. I'll be posting pics (fingers crossed) later for sure! 
	
	
		
		
	


	




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## Manor farm (23 July 2012)

I should judge them on personal sight rather than comments. Primitive Rising (PP's sire) was certainly reputed to throw talented but often quirky young stock. I have seen and used PP on a mare, however, and he was really nice to meet. She has a good temperament too which helped and the foal is sweet. I don't think his temperament actually affected his eventing career per se, but more his focus when in the presence of mares. I know that is a sort of part of it and mill law is certainly a Saint  but I also know some more tricky offspring of his who inherited dam traits. I narrowed choice down to those too following a lot of research. I loved Mill Law but chose PP as I thought him really lovely too and wanted a TB for my mare who is a little chunky but I think both are great.


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## starryeyes (23 July 2012)

Just to be different...I wouldn't touch a Mill Law baby (only for myself personally).

I like him but have had dealings with a couple all of which have been talented but 'professional' rides.  They have all been very sweet on the surface but when pushed to produce the goods have had another side to them!!!  (I'm an amature rider)

I quite like the look of Proposal & have had too many quirky Primitive Rising horses, but have heard very good things about his stock.

I think at the end of the day its what the horse stood in front of you is & you're plans/aims.  Good luck!


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