# anyone think im mad?



## Archiepoo (27 December 2015)

im on a lovely familys yard who have a young unproven chestnut warmblood stallion with darco lines .im not interested in jumping but he is so beautiful and is under 16hh and quite fine (i know hes only a baby but wont be a heavyweight)im seriously considering putting him to my 14hh coloured gypsy cob (also lightweight -more native than traditional) shes had a few foals before i broke her to ride( county standard -very good examples ) ,shes a wonderful mum .anyway what do you think would be the result of this unlikely cross? am i insane? (foal would have a home for life )


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## Alec Swan (27 December 2015)

You may be very well,  and pleasantly surprised.  So many decent sorts come from the most unlikely sources.  

Sometimes we can only work with the best that we have at hand.  Go on,  have a go! 

Alec.


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## Archiepoo (27 December 2015)

thanks Alec im thinking its the christmas spirit taking hold lol but im very tempted  ! a smart little  warmblood x cob around 15hh would do me nicely into my old age .;-)


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## SpringArising (27 December 2015)

Not mad but definitely not worth it IMO. You can pick something like that up for next to nothing - unproven X breeds are aplenty.


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## GemG (27 December 2015)

... anyone with horses actually probably is!?!

Totally depends on you, what you want and if you can stand the stresses involved in breeding.  We have bred one to keep ourselves (we have the stallion and I loaned a broodmare on breeding loan) - it was a long journey from choosing/getting the right mare through to foaling and beyond.  We now have a fabulous 8month filly who is just the sort I like/need.   But it is stress and worry and of course a lot can go wrong between now and even breaking in...   But sometimes it's worth doing something 'your' way, as long as you can justify it to yourself.  Don't worry about an unproven sire as long as you are totally happy with how he is, what his temperament and way of going is like, health, type etc.    let's face it, most of us will not ride or even wish to ride above local level, RC or county level anyway.   Not everyone needs a potential 4*horse.

If it's down to £ only, I would just buy something when the need arises - it does cost you to breed and keep something until it's old enough to get near with a saddle! 

If you really, really want to do it, go for it. Good luck with whatever you decide.


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## GemG (27 December 2015)

....meant to add, don't just breed because there happens to be a stallion on site (nice as he may be). Only do it if you were doing it anyway, if you know what I mean.


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## Archiepoo (27 December 2015)

I love my little mare but altho she is a fun ride a lovely nature and a great mother (a friend of mine owns one of her foals and hes amazing ) shes oy 14hh which I feel a bit big on - ive got another horse to ride so waiting for a youngster to grow isnt a problem .ive never bred a horse myself(have brought on from foal to riding tho) but have experience on the yard .they have broodmares that my mare lives out with so would have company on many acres of good grazing and is a really good easy breeder - altho im not nieve about the hazards .I really like the stallion they both have fab temperaments and excellent conformation.so could do a lot worse !


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## Peregrine Falcon (27 December 2015)

I put my mare to a 2yo colt last year.  I saw him, liked him and he was running right by me.  I'd intended to put her in foal anyway and was looking for different bloodlines (which he had) so went for it.  I didn't like my foal much at first I have to admit but she's growing up nicely .

If you have the ground, time and patience then why not.  Madness is horse ownership anyway!


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## SusieT (27 December 2015)

be interesting to see pics of both to give an unbiased view(obv yard owners would be biased!)


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## chillipup (28 December 2015)

I'd be interested to know how old your mare is and how many foals she's already had. There really is no guarantee that just because she has been 'a good easy breeder' previously, this covering will turn out the same. Neither can it be guaranteed that any off spring will have a home for life, as no one, as yet, has ever been able to predict the future. Just take your time to weigh up all the pros and cons before making any decision. I wish you well whatever you decide.


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## Archiepoo (28 December 2015)

thanks susieT wont be posting pics on here . chillipup shes 13 and had 6 foals .i bought her last spring as my horse had ulcers and was being very unpredictable to ride -(hes now better and riding well again ,so shes just turned out .)she was sweet from day 1 and a darling fun pony to break in -not a plod at all really fun pony . its this little colt thats got me thinking about it -maybe i just need  a good slap before spring !


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## Magicmadge (28 December 2015)

Breeding is a lottery no matter how good the stock is you use.  I chose a really good stallion for my mare from a top stud. Mare has very good old lines. Resulting foal is  not what I had hoped for  and will not live up to my expectations for the show ring .  However, I chose to breed and he will have a home for life with me and is loved regardless. Go for it if it is something you want to do , I loved every minute of the expectation and all that came after, he is a joy. They may or may not be what you hope for but they are yours .


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## SusieT (29 December 2015)

how many coloured foals does the world need though - realistically there are a lot of skinny coloured horses out there that just look a bit odd imo.. She doesn't sound like she adds any performance value - he has no perforomance value so what are you breeding..


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## Archiepoo (29 December 2015)

Ooh susieT you are a sourpuss


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## SusieT (29 December 2015)

yup.. cos you see these horses as they spiral down the cycle of being too much for thier owner as a youngster because they're not just a coloured cob in temperment, then they aren't quality enough for a good home so end up in if they're lucky in a loving riding club home. If they're not they cycle through one home for a year, then a dealer, then maybe another home and eventually someone decides either to make them into meat or breed cos they're a nice colour...
What will make your foal any different?


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## Alec Swan (29 December 2015)

Come on SusieT,  not every horse bred is aimed at Badminton and some of the best homes that I know of are Riding Club sorts.

Alec.


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## Archiepoo (29 December 2015)

SusieT play nicely please you have no idea about my capabilities or the superb quality foals my mare would throw with a warmblood stallion.


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## Tetrarch 1911 (30 December 2015)

Hi Archiepoo, I've been following this thread with interest, as I do like a good coloured horse with a bit of breeding behind it! Everyone has different requirements when they plan for a foal, and also we all try and breed the best we can, for as SusieT pointed out, there are a lot of indifferently-bred horses out there that struggle to stay in good homes through no fault of their own. I know we all hope our foals have good homes, and if we intend to keep our home-bred, then that's fine - but circumstances can change and we might have to try and sell on our much-loved horse. Sooo ... I had a think about what I would do if I had your little mare and I wanted to breed from her. She sounds lovely, by the way! 

I take it you want to breed colour. Has she bred all coloured foals? Or have they been a mixture? If it is the latter, I would probably prefer not to take a chance and go for a good, homozygous coloured stallion. There are quite a few of them about with excellent performance histories and good youngstock.

The young stallion - has he been inspected and licensed? You already know his breeding, and if his owners are keeping him entire, then I would expect you can research his family capabilities and his close relatives for any kind of prepotency, good or bad. We had a very nice DWB stallion in the area back in the nineties, excellent lines and a very good performance horse in his own right, but he had a tendency to throw cleft palates in his foals, even though he was sound himself. It's always worth asking around, just in case! What plans do his owners have for him? What do his relatives do? Are they dressage horses or do they event? Are they particularly suited for a certain discipline? As he is unproven himself, try and do the ol' family history research. I have to say for me that's a good part of the fun!

Anyway, I may be trying to teach my grandmother to suck eggs here, and if I am, sorry! I'm just trying to think of practical questions that I would be asking in the process of finding a stallion for your mare. I wish you luck in whatever you decide to do, and if you get a foal, let us know how you get (and a picture would be nice!).


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## Palindrome (30 December 2015)

Personally I would be worried about temperament too, warmbloods can be tricky and if the sire is just a colt you can't know what he'll be like under saddle/in a competition atmosphere. What do you want the foal for? Are you into showing? I can imagine the foal would make a good show pony, but probably not ideal if you want a happy hacker.


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## Tetrarch 1911 (30 December 2015)

Absolutely! I remember going to see an ID stallion many years ago. An excellent sire of performance horses and his youngsters were much sought-after, and he suited my mare perfectly on paper. I never actually saw all of him. His stable door was so built up to stop him lunging at passers-by, all I ever saw were his ears. His owners wouldn't take him out of the stable as their regular stallion man was unexpectedly ill that day. Needless to say I didn't use him, and on further enquiry his stock were a tad sharp too! I learned my lesson. Although I can say he had a perfectly lovely pair of ears!


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## GemG (30 December 2015)

SusieT said:



			how many coloured foals does the world need though - realistically there are a lot of skinny coloured horses out there that just look a bit odd imo.. She doesn't sound like she adds any performance value - he has no perforomance value so what are you breeding..
		
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Agree to a tiny point, but mostly not!!!

Our stallion is not a *4 event horse, GP dressage or the likes, however he is and has produced lovely sorts.  Good quality riding club types (more than capable of affiliated disciplines - some are competing currently and doing their owners proud.  I want to do some affiliated dressage in the future, to a decent level and have kept a filly by him for that purpose (God forbid I've used a pony stallion who isn't a highly bred superstar!) and she will do me just perfectly.  

Not everyone needs something that is capable of doing high level work - in fact I will go a step further and say that most people's horses are far more capable than their riders (generally!).  This decision is entirely up to what the OP wants and is willing to do and has the capability of managing.  A well grounded, experienced rider/owner who has a trough of common sense about them should be capable of handling a youngster (mostly).


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## GemG (30 December 2015)

SusieT said:



			how many coloured foals does the world need though - realistically there are a lot of skinny coloured horses out there that just look a bit odd imo.. She doesn't sound like she adds any performance value - he has no perforomance value so what are you breeding..
		
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Agree to a tiny little point, but mostly not!!!

Our stallion is not a *4 event horse, GP dressage or the likes, however he is and has produced lovely sorts.  Good quality riding club types (more than capable of affiliated disciplines - some are competing currently and doing their owners proud.  I want to do some affiliated dressage in the future, to a decent level and have kept a filly by him for that purpose (God forbid I've used a pony stallion who isn't a highly bred superstar!) and she will do me just perfectly.  

Not everyone needs something that is capable of doing high level work - in fact I will go a step further and say that most people's horses are far more capable than their riders (generally!).  You cannot state that a RC type will end up in poor hands, that is silly. This decision is entirely up to what the OP wants and is willing to do and has the capability of managing.  A well grounded, experienced rider/owner who has a trough of common sense about them should be capable of handling a youngster (mostly).


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## GemG (30 December 2015)

Our 8 month old, wet, muddy filly, a trakehner x British spotted pony - she will be more than capable of most things and is rather lovely to be around.

Nannie pony in background is totally unrelated!


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## Archiepoo (30 December 2015)

GemG your baby is lovely! i have brought horses on from foals before so do have experience its just the breeding bit ive not done before but as i said ive got help with that . my mare has the most loving fabulous nature and that has been passed to all her foals ,the stallion  is sweet and compact but fine legged so im imagining  i would get maybe a 15hh red or white  or chestnut with long white stockings .anything like that  would be fine with me!  . my current riding horse is starting to slow down and he will be retired in a few years ,hes an excellent nanny for a youngster (hes actually nanny to the stallion thats just been broken ) so a little baby to bring along would be fun and i like to do them from scratch myself .


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## GemG (30 December 2015)

Archiepoo :- I think you've answered your own question !


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## GemG (30 December 2015)

Another one...  Other side...  So this is as I said a 16.2hh trakehner x 14.2hh British spotted pony (who looks like a small hunter type) - so Archiepoo, you may get something 'similar' but more bone, slightly heavier build and maybe a bit of white! This filly should make 16hh ish (and will spot out).


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## GemG (30 December 2015)

...and a bit more of a 'cob' look about it. If that makes sense!


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## Archiepoo (30 December 2015)

Very nice GemG .that would suit me just fine .


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## Luci07 (9 January 2016)

I veer more towards Susie T's post..I was always told you should breed as though you were selling in case circumstances change. Made me think very hard about breeding from my mare who had already bred a good Colt foal to DiMaggio, was graded and had evented to intermediate. 

Costs you have covered, you can't be quite sure what you will get though so how will you will feel if you end up with a bay 16.2 as the Colt will not be finishing at 16 hands as he is only 3. I was on a yard with a few foals as well as having a good friend who bred top quality sports horses so what ultimately put me off was the heartbreak as well.

If you can look at this from all angles and it still excites you, then go for it. If any of this worries you, then stop. Walk away...and do some serious research into buying yourself a 2 or 3 year old!


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## elliefiz (10 January 2016)

Archiepoo said:



			SusieT play nicely please you have no idea about my capabilities or the superb quality foals my mare would throw with a warmblood stallion.
		
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I think you have gotten totally carried away. Superb quality foals are produced by top class mares from the best breeding lines, mares who are the produce of years of deliberately careful breeding, whom are recognised as such by their breed societies and are then crossed with stallions of equal quality who have been licenced, who have performance records, who are proven to not produce foals with genetic problems. I agree with other posters who answered your question of "am I mad?" with the answer, that yes you are. But if you are determined to breed a pet for yourself that's completely your prerogative, but to do so in the misguided belief that you will produce something of superb quality would be wrong.


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## TheMule (10 January 2016)

Just remember the huge costs and time commitment involved, facilities needed for foaling and keeping a young foal, weaning and running with other youngsters. I spent a small fortune on my homebred having her conceived, doing everything right every step of the way and I lost her at 18months after another few thousand of vets bills. 
A gupsy cob x warmblood has the potential to be nice, but could also take spindly legs from the warmblood, a heavy top from the cob, sharpness of the warmblood lines and the head of a cob. It is a bigger lottery than most breedings as you're breeding away from type


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## Irish gal (10 January 2016)

I would go for it as long as I wasn't going to be paying livery for the foal - then it will be an expensive exercise; although that's fine too as long as you can afford it.

I'm always amazed at how up in arms people seem to get on here over breeding - as if people were on purpose trying to create horses for abbatoirs!

Some of the very best breeding decisions have come from this sort of cross, believe it or not folks. The Selle Francais studbook was very poorly performing at one time until French trotters were crossed with show jumpers - an unlikely cross that set the studbook on fire. Apparently The great Almé's grand dam or great grand dam pulled a plough - a heavy French workhorse. From her genes has come some of the greatest showjumpers the world has seen - Galoubet, Baloubet, Quick Star etc.

A friend had a very good 14.2 show jumper when I was a kid. He was second at the RDS in Dublin Grade A - biggest competition in the country. His father was a trotting stallion owned by gypsies who broke into the mare's field. That 14.2 pony was the only showjumper in the country that also qualified to to RDA.

People are talking about graded stallions and mares and all that and only breeding from them. What about all of the highly bred jumpers, the warmblood and WB crosses  - not good enough for top jumping and not sane enough to be amateur riding horses. Bet they take up a hell of a lot of abbatoir space but nobody is complaining about that sort of breeding.


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## Equi (10 January 2016)

I know a cob x tb who is the most gorgeous thing I've ever seen with fine pretty features but huge legs but that's the luck of the draw. It could come out looking like a cartoon horse with a massive head and int spindly legs. Breeding is a gamble especially when you have two very different breeds. If you want to do it do it, but do try and look at what types usually come out.


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## elliefiz (10 January 2016)

The best horses in the world are the result of proper breeding, not someone breeding their favourite mare with a random stallion. There's no denying that. The exceptions to the rule are v few and far between. The introduction of different bloodlines into a studbook is carefully managed, not done on a whim.

As for well bred horses ending up at the abattoir, that's nonsense. No horse is immune to ending up in the wrong hands but the majority of horses heading to slaughter are badly bred, coloured cobs. If you can't recognise that there is a problem in the UK and Ireland with too many poorly bred, unwanted horses ending up as welfare cases then you must have blinkers on. The way to address the problem is for people to stop breeding willy nilly.


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## classic_astra (10 January 2016)

i had a similar situation, had my 14hand dark bay welsh d x cob mare for 16 years and i bred her to a young warmblood stallion who was unproven, i was attracted to his lovely nature and good breeding. although my mare had no breeding i wanted something for myself out of my own well loved mare for me to keep. stallion was 15.2 and she had a coloured filly thats make 14.2 and still slightly growing. shes nearly 6 and does everything i want. ive done her all myself so i know any mistakes are down to me. she had a bit of the typical stroppy mare tendencies at 2years old but they fizzled out nicely. shes a super loving kind natured pony and is very laid back. she jumps and does a bit of x country but is no world beater, but im happy with that and she has a home for life


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## Clodagh (10 January 2016)

She has turned into a nice little mare, C-A, I remember her as a foal, I think she is the same age as Piper.


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## classic_astra (10 January 2016)

yeah thats right, how has he turned out? i remember u posting about your mare as she is beautiful! i could of done with her being a couple of inches taller but she does the job. shes been turned away all winter, bringing her back into work next month so looking forward to that. be nice to see some pics of your boy


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## Clodagh (10 January 2016)

He is out on permanent loan, he just kept growing and growing! I hope to go and see him next week so will take some pics, he is about 18hh!


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## classic_astra (10 January 2016)

jesus! u bred a giant!! how big were parents??


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## Clodagh (10 January 2016)

16hh x 15.3! So, OP, you can end up with anything - CA's is too small and mine too big!


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## GemG (10 January 2016)

elliefiz said:



			I think you have gotten totally carried away. Superb quality foals are produced by top class mares from the best breeding lines, mares who are the produce of years of deliberately careful breeding, whom are recognised as such by their breed societies and are then crossed with stallions of equal quality who have been licenced, who have performance records, who are proven to not produce foals with genetic problems. I agree with other posters who answered your question of "am I mad?" with the answer, that yes you are. But if you are determined to breed a pet for yourself that's completely your prerogative, but to do so in the misguided belief that you will produce something of superb quality would be wrong.
		
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Determined to breed a pet for yourself... QUOTE

That's unfair when you don't really know the OP's horses or ability.


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## Equi (10 January 2016)

elliefiz said:



			The best horses in the world are the result of proper breeding, not someone breeding their favourite mare with a random stallion. There's no denying that. The exceptions to the rule are v few and far between. The introduction of different bloodlines into a studbook is carefully managed, not done on a whim.

As for well bred horses ending up at the abattoir, that's nonsense. No horse is immune to ending up in the wrong hands but the majority of horses heading to slaughter are badly bred, coloured cobs. If you can't recognise that there is a problem in the UK and Ireland with too many poorly bred, unwanted horses ending up as welfare cases then you must have blinkers on. The way to address the problem is for people to stop breeding willy nilly.
		
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Actually the most horses sent to slaughter are thoroughbreds that are not up to the job.


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## GemG (10 January 2016)

... And I certainly don't think that the OP is adding to this 'coloured cob mountain' that has erupted.  We all know the types of breeders that chucks a black and white colt in with a handful of 'whatever' mares/fillies and breeds downhill, ewe necked awful looking poor sods.  I don't think this is the case here at all.


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## elliefiz (10 January 2016)

equi said:



			Actually the most horses sent to slaughter are thoroughbreds that are not up to the job.
		
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I don't believe this to be true. The fate of ex racehorses has received much attention. Most people i know from my years as partner to a jockey who then became a trainer are very conscious of doing the right thing by their horses, even if that means PTS. No big yard out there wants to be linked with sending horses off for slaughter, it would be very damaging to a reputation. Meat horses are priced by weight, racing fit TB's aren't worth a whole lot by those definitions.


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## Irish gal (11 January 2016)

classic_astra said:



			i had a similar situation, had my 14hand dark bay welsh d x cob mare for 16 years and i bred her to a young warmblood stallion who was unproven, i was attracted to his lovely nature and good breeding. although my mare had no breeding i wanted something for myself out of my own well loved mare for me to keep. stallion was 15.2 and she had a coloured filly thats make 14.2 and still slightly growing. shes nearly 6 and does everything i want. ive done her all myself so i know any mistakes are down to me. she had a bit of the typical stroppy mare tendencies at 2years old but they fizzled out nicely. shes a super loving kind natured pony and is very laid back. she jumps and does a bit of x country but is no world beater, but im happy with that and she has a home for life  












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Well done she's lovely and fair play to you for using your own head instead of following any PC nonsense about what qualifies to be bred from. People need to use their own heads instead of following the crowd


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## Irish gal (11 January 2016)

elliefiz said:



			I don't believe this to be true. The fate of ex racehorses has received much attention. Most people i know from my years as partner to a jockey who then became a trainer are very conscious of doing the right thing by their horses, even if that means PTS. No big yard out there wants to be linked with sending horses off for slaughter, it would be very damaging to a reputation. Meat horses are priced by weight, racing fit TB's aren't worth a whole lot by those definitions.
		
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Over here they make about &#8364;600 at the factory and as has been rightly said there are far more TBs then any other breed at abbatoirs, here at least. Pretty much as a matter of course TBs that don't make the grade/break down are slaughtered - no shortage of well bred animals among them.


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## Equi (11 January 2016)

elliefiz said:



			I don't believe this to be true. The fate of ex racehorses has received much attention. Most people i know from my years as partner to a jockey who then became a trainer are very conscious of doing the right thing by their horses, even if that means PTS. No big yard out there wants to be linked with sending horses off for slaughter, it would be very damaging to a reputation. Meat horses are priced by weight, racing fit TB's aren't worth a whole lot by those definitions.
		
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Believe what you want  It doesn't matter what meat they have on them when they are put through a grinder and into a dog food can. The amount of meat in dog food is shocking lol


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## elliefiz (11 January 2016)

equi said:



			Believe what you want  It doesn't matter what meat they have on them when they are put through a grinder and into a dog food can. The amount of meat in dog food is shocking lol
		
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I'm assuming you have the source of your facts to back this up then? Which I would be very interested to read. Or is this just something you think yourself so it must be true?


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## elliefiz (11 January 2016)

Irish gal said:



			Over here they make about &#8364;600 at the factory and as has been rightly said there are far more TBs then any other breed at abbatoirs, here at least. Pretty much as a matter of course TBs that don't make the grade/break down are slaughtered - no shortage of well bred animals among them.
		
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Irishgal i really want to know where you get your facts from? The proof you have? There are few abattoirs taking in meat horses in Ireland due to the horse meat scandal. If you want your horse to go to the factories that produce for dog food, ie the knackers, you have to pay. It's just as cheap to pay to PTS. Five minutes on Google will back up all I say, including this article where it specifically says that it's not race horses going for slaughter. 

http://www.thejournal.ie/horse-welfare-ireland-1252307-Jan2014/


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## Irish gal (11 January 2016)

elliefiz said:



			Irishgal i really want to know where you get your facts from? The proof you have? There are few abattoirs taking in meat horses in Ireland due to the horse meat scandal. If you want your horse to go to the factories that produce for dog food, ie the knackers, you have to pay. It's just as cheap to pay to PTS. Five minutes on Google will back up all I say, including this article where it specifically says that it's not race horses going for slaughter. 

http://www.thejournal.ie/horse-welfare-ireland-1252307-Jan2014/

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Elliefiz, you might need to read a little more widely and deeply before you have a picture of the Irish situation. Horses are routinely slaughtered here in one of five plants around the country, all that's happened is the rules have tightened up following the horse meat scandal. The 25,000 horses referred to in that article are the unwanted/sub standard group in the country that do not have passports that meet the now more stringent standards needed for slaughter. There are an estimated 180,000 horses in the country, so as you can see it is only a small fraction that was being referred to. And there is absolutely no problem to slaughter a TB with a wetherby's passport.

What's happened is if a person gets lazy and doesn't bother to register a foal until he's two, he can never be slaughtered in case bute was administered before he had a passport that it could be recorded in. Those 25,000 horses are largely unpassported ones and the farmers group referred to was seeking a government amnesty, whereby the animals would be culled but crucially the farmers would be able to get government compensation. Basically they still want their &#8364;500 at the factory. 

As you're looking for 'proof' I've just opened the Irish Field - main paper here for the TB and sport horse sector and there are three ads looking for factory horses. One reads: Prompt payment: Horses slaughtered under EU licence in export premises with veterinary supervision by the Dept of Agriculture. Go back onto google there and go into The Irish Field and you can read the ads yourself.

Meanwhile here's a link to how horses are slaughtered in my neck of the woods:
http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/b...censed-to-slaughter-horses-for-meat-1-4723612

I can tell you now there are VERY few farmers paying a knacker man to kill their horse when they can get hundreds at the factory.


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## Equi (11 January 2016)

Elliefiz Google is not a credible source for fact stating :')


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## GemG (11 January 2016)

Irish gal said:



			Well done she's lovely and fair play to you for using your own head instead of following any PC nonsense about what qualifies to be bred from. People need to use their own heads instead of following the crowd 

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Well said.


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## elliefiz (11 January 2016)

equi said:



			Elliefiz Google is not a credible source for fact stating :')
		
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News paper articles are usually pretty factual, especially when they are quoting sources. There's hundred of articles out there about the horse welfare crisis, most quoting fairly knowledgable people who probably have more of an idea of the situation than posters on HHO.


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## elliefiz (11 January 2016)

Irishgal I wonder why you think I'm talking about the Irish situation without any personal knowledge of it or no personal interest in the situation? Because that isn't the case. I currently have 7 horses in Ireland, a yard there and my ex partner is a trainer there. I am Irish myself. I have seen the ads in the Irish field. However the figures don't lie, there has been a drop off in the number of horses slaughtered for meat in Ireland in wake of the horse meat scandal, with one of the big abattoirs shutting down. Whilst the figures aren't 100% accurate it gives a broader view of what actually is happening. And the TB industry which is what was under discussion, has greatly reduced the numbers of foals been born because let's face it, paying a large sum for a covering fee for a foal that might not sell doesn't make sense. Producing a potential racehorse is far more expensive than any other equine athlete. A mediocre sure commands a fee of 10k. There's not so many around who can afford that now just to pack the horse off for a few hundred quid for meat so they get out of the game altogether. Any of the Irish TB sales have been down on numbers over the past few years, I know because I've been there. If the horses aren't been bred, there is less wastage because people are being sensible and not breeding willy nilly just because they can. And that's the whole point I've continued to make, just because you can breed doesn't mean you should.


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## Irish gal (11 January 2016)

You're twisting and turning now Elliefiz and changing the subject. Nobody is arguing that there hasn't been a drop off in the number of horses slaughted following the meat scandal. But we are saying that the greatest number slaughtered are TBs - in Ireland at least. There may be less of them around but proportionally more of them still pass through abbatoirs than any other breed.

You originally stated, and I quote: "The majority of horses heading to slaughter are badly bred, coloured cobs". In an Irish context that is simply not correct.


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## GemG (11 January 2016)

Of course "just because you can breed, doesn't mean you should" - that goes for a lot of things in life.  However there are instances where if someone has the time, knowledge, dedication, decent stock and funds to do so, then if they want to, then yes they should.   

I have bred in the last year to keep, in my case I would not have gone out and bought one if I couldn't have bred her.  Im most certainly not adding to the horse welfare crisis and I don't think the OP here is either.


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## classic_astra (11 January 2016)

Irish gal said:



			Well done she's lovely and fair play to you for using your own head instead of following any PC nonsense about what qualifies to be bred from. People need to use their own heads instead of following the crowd 

Click to expand...

thank you  im very pleased with her, would change her for the world


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