# Lady, One Week After The Move



## JadeyyAndLadyy (15 May 2011)

Helloooo Guys 
Well, its been one week since i moved Lady to her new home, shes looking better already  Well, me, and everyone at the field think so lol.
When i first got her there, i measured her with a weight tape and she was 846lb/384kg
I measured her today and shes now 859lb/390kg 
Anyway, as promised, i took some photos today, so ill do a Before and After 
Before. 8/5/11






After. 15/5/11 (Today)






So, do you think shes getting better?


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## binkymerlin (15 May 2011)

sorry i missed her story. but i think she is looking good


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## indie999 (15 May 2011)

Dont know the story but her rump doesnt look as bony, or ribs (unless its the light)

What was her story? She looked emaciated in 1st pic def.


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## dominobrown (15 May 2011)

She's looking better. She wintered last year really badly didnt she? I wouldn't say she is emaciated in the first pic though! bit of an exaggeration!


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## JadeyyAndLadyy (15 May 2011)

She wasnt emaciated. Thats a bit of an exaggeration.
She was thin and ribby from crap grass in a crap field
Ive moved her to a new field with plenty of grass and extra TLC and shes slowly putting on weight again


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## RuthnMeg (15 May 2011)

Looking good, well done. x


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## penhwnllys_stardust (15 May 2011)

Big difference in 1 week! I too missed her story but i'm glad she is improving for you


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## SmartieBean09 (15 May 2011)

No one tries harder than you OP.  She is looking better in 2nd pic.  I know how hard you have tried with her condition.  It's just such a shame your friends let you down.  Hopefully now things will only get better.  Good luck and keep us posted.


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## JadeyyAndLadyy (15 May 2011)

SmartieBean09 said:



			No one tries harder than you OP.  She is looking better in 2nd pic.  I know how hard you have tried with her condition.  It's just such a shame your friends let you down.  Hopefully now things will only get better.  Good luck and keep us posted. 

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Aww Thanks


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## Boxers (15 May 2011)

She's starting to look better already - I have followed your story right from that awful winter you had with her.  Very well done, she looks so happy in her new field with her new horsey friends.


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## Amymay (15 May 2011)

Jade, I dispair.


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## JadeyyAndLadyy (15 May 2011)

amymay said:



			Jade, I dispair.
		
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........?
Do you have a problem Amymay?


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## Boxers (15 May 2011)

amymay said:



			Jade, I dispair.
		
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Why?  It looks to me like Jade is trying to do her best for her mare who is elderly and not a good doer.  The pictures in her other post showing Lady's new field were great and the grass looked good.

spelling - despair


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## Chestnutmare (15 May 2011)

you can see the difference a week has made yes, and she will then only get better now..
well done...


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## Mildred (15 May 2011)

I don't use NL much so there may be more to the story of the mare, but I did see the post a year or so ago where the OP was given lots of good advice regarding feeding.  Crap grass is no excuse. My horse has crap grass over the winter as do 90% of the equine population. If I relied on grass, my horse would look thin, poor and ribby too.  Surely, even for a 'poor doer', after a couple of years of ownership (or however long you've owned her) you could have found a feed and routine that works for your mare?  I'm not sure she looks hugely different.  

Why does she look so poor, does she have an underlying illness?


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## PonyIAmNotFood (15 May 2011)

Have you had bloods etc done on her? I have vaguely followed this so know her history but echo the above, poor grass isnt an excuse really, we have got 2 very poor doing 30 odd year olds through winter at a fair weight just through good feed and hayledge with light work thrown in. 

She does look better for the week on good grass though  Has she been ridden through winter? What's she been fed?


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## JadeyyAndLadyy (15 May 2011)

Mildred said:



			I don't use NL much so there may be more to the story of the mare, but I did see the post a year or so ago where the OP was given lots of good advice regarding feeding.  Crap grass is no excuse. My horse has crap grass over the winter as do 90% of the equine population. If I relied on grass, my horse would look thin, poor and ribby too.  Surely, even for a 'poor doer', after a couple of years of ownership (or however long you've owned her) you could have found a feed and routine that works for your mare?  I'm not sure she looks hugely different.  

Why does she look so poor, does she have an underlying illness?
		
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No illness, vets havent found anything. There was literally no grass in the field and because shes 20 years old her front teeth are rather worn so she found it difficult to get the grass. she was hayed and fed 2-3 times a day (until i found out my friends hadnt been feeding her in the mornings) so she started to lose weight.
And no, there wont be a 'huge' difference, its been 7 days, but her ribs are less noticable, i can feel the difference and watching her in the field everyone can tell she looks better


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## JadeyyAndLadyy (15 May 2011)

PonyIAmNotFood said:



			Have you had bloods etc done on her? I have vaguely followed this so know her history but echo the above, poor grass isnt an excuse really, we have got 2 very poor doing 30 odd year olds through winter at a fair weight just through good feed and hayledge with light work thrown in. 

She does look better for the week on good grass though  Has she been ridden through winter? What's she been fed?
		
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She looked great through winter and great coming out of winter too. But friend problems, she lost weight. She was fed on (all through winter until recently) alfa a oil, conditioning cubes and sugabeet. she was ridden once or twice (lightly, just walking around) but pretty much just left her to chill over the winter.


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## PonyIAmNotFood (15 May 2011)

If her teeth are worn and older than her years she may not have done well on the hay (which imo should have been ad lib, not 2 times a day) and mushy chop may have been better, again ad lib. But whatever, she'll do well now shes on good grass I imagine, just start your winter feeding early I reckon lol then she doesn't end up poor again.

ETA only just read your reply to my other post, fair enough if it's just a sudden thing, never trust anyone else when your horse changes as dramatically as this because of it!!


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## Amymay (15 May 2011)

Jade, you know exactly why I dispair. A year on - no improvement. The latest excuse? Your friend wasn't wasn't feeding her in the mornings.

Shocking.


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## PonyIAmNotFood (15 May 2011)

Wait, just done a bit more background reading and seen the post about yoou getting reported for having no hay in the field, surely this rang alarm bells then before she lost so much weight?


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## JadeyyAndLadyy (15 May 2011)

amymay said:



			Jade, you know exactly why I dispair. A year on - no improvement. The latest excuse? Your friend wasn't wasn't feeding her in the mornings.

Shocking.
		
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Oh amymay, you know for a fact thats not true. She looked amazing in the summer and was great in and out of winter. If youre not happy with me and lady, then you dont have to read my posts.


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## JadeyyAndLadyy (15 May 2011)

PonyIAmNotFood said:



			Wait, just done a bit more background reading and seen the post about yoou getting reported for having no hay in the field, surely this rang alarm bells then before she lost so much weight?
		
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That is also another reason why i moved out my field. The people around me were just nasty  their aims in life were to hurt everyone, and reported me countless times for petty things (if hay had run out in the field, they would ring RSPCA straight away) they would sit and watch EVERYTHING we did, the most recent thing they have done is saying one of my friends horses is going to die a slow and painful death because hes 24 years old


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## touchstone (15 May 2011)

I'm sorry Jade, but I tend to agree with Amymay; her condition is particularly bad in the first pic and hopefully she will improve on good grazing, but I think you need a serious think about the up and coming winter.   I've heard on the grapevine that forecasters are suggesting a spate of winters like the last one for the next five years, in which case Lady is going to need substantially more food. I would suggest she needs ad lib hay as an absolute minimum over the winter alongside conditioning feeds.

I do also wonder if pain issues could be a factor if she has had broncing episodes in the past and pain is a great fat burner for horses. I think she could probably be older than you've been told too (she came cheap from a dealer who wanted rid?)

If I were you I'd build her up as much as possible over the summer, and start putting away money each week now for winter feed so it isn't all to fork out for in one go.

If she continues to struggle to put weight on then I think I'd question whether to put her through our winters tbh.


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## PonyIAmNotFood (15 May 2011)

JadeyyAndLadyy said:



			That is also another reason why i moved out my field. The people around me were just nasty  their aims in life were to hurt everyone, and reported me countless times for petty things (if hay had run out in the field, they would ring RSPCA straight away) they would sit and watch EVERYTHING we did, the most recent thing they have done is saying one of my friends horses is going to die a slow and painful death because hes 24 years old 

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That is horrible and I sympathise with the nastiness, but the hay SHOULDN'T have run out, especially as you know how easily she loses weight. Im agreeing a bit now that although she's looking better and will gain weight now, she didnt get thin overnight so you would have seen the change surely and could have done something about it earlier.


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## JadeyyAndLadyy (15 May 2011)

touchstone said:



			I'm sorry Jade, but I tend to agree with Amymay; her condition is particularly bad in the first pic and hopefully she will improve on good grazing, but I think you need a serious think about the up and coming winter.   I've heard on the grapevine that forecasters are suggesting a spate of winters like the last one for the next five years, in which case Lady is going to need substantially more food. I would suggest she needs ad lib hay as an absolute minimum over the winter alongside conditioning feeds.

I do also wonder if pain issues could be a factor if she has had broncing episodes in the past and pain is a great fat burner for horses. I think she could probably be older than you've been told too (she came cheap from a dealer who wanted rid?)

If I were you I'd build her up as much as possible over the summer, and start putting away money each week now for winter feed so it isn't all to fork out for in one go.

If she continues to struggle to put weight on then I think I'd question whether to put her through our winters tbh.
		
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Youre completely right, but at least you say it nicer than amymay.
The broncing-this was about 2 days after i bought her, she was scared of men/guys and when my brother sat on her she freaked out and threw him off. she has never ever done this again.
She will no doubt get better and better in the new field, its only down the road from my house so i can feed and look after myself without any trouble. Ad lib hay in winter is also not a problem, our farmer sells plenty of hay for very cheap.
Im positive she will cope well through this winter, especially in the new field with the extra care that i can give her


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## joeanne (15 May 2011)

Jade what are you feeding her now?
She IS looking poor again, and if her teeth are not all that great and she has trouble with the grazing, you are going to have to either keep up with the hay, or start supplimenting her with a bucket of fast fibre to pick at.
I find this so hard because its obvious to a blind man you adore her.


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## Girlracer (15 May 2011)

I don't think you can post photos of a horse looking so poor and ask people not to comment if they don't like the photos. 

Grass is absolutely *NO* excuse IMHO, and whilst i usually either don't comment or try to be as nicey, nicey as i can with my posts this is really something that grates me. 

I have a 27yo TBx, very poor doer that isn't even in work, he's lost a lot of his teeth and can't eat hay, haylage or grass and still we manage to keep a decent amount of weight on him through hard work and close management. I understand completely that it can be hard to find a good routine etc that suits your horse, but clearly whatever you were doing didn't work, it's good news she has the grass now and can start to put on some condition.... but what happens come next winter? 

I agree with an above poster, if your really genuinely trying everything and she still gets to this state i would question whether she should be made to endure the winters. 

If she struggles with grass try getting her onto Ultra Grass as a forage alongside hay (can you not feed haylage?), and i would try some different feeds, barley rings are quite good. 

Sorry if this comes across as harsh but this is something i'm passionate about what with having my own struggling oldie!


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## JadeyyAndLadyy (15 May 2011)

Girlracer said:



			I don't think you can post photos of a horse looking so poor and ask people not to comment if they don't like the photos. 

Grass is absolutely *NO* excuse IMHO, and whilst i usually either don't comment or try to be as nicey, nicey as i can with my posts this is really something that grates me. 

I have a 27yo TBx, very poor doer that isn't even in work, he's lost a lot of his teeth and can't eat hay, haylage or grass and still we manage to keep a decent amount of weight on him through hard work and close management. I understand completely that it can be hard to find a good routine etc that suits your horse, but clearly whatever you were doing didn't work, it's good news she has the grass now and can start to put on some condition.... but what happens come next winter? 

I agree with an above poster, if your really genuinely trying everything and she still gets to this state i would question whether she should be made to endure the winters. 

If she struggles with grass try getting her onto Ultra Grass as a forage alongside hay (can you not feed haylage?), and i would try some different feeds, barley rings are quite good. 

Sorry if this comes across as harsh but this is something i'm passionate about what with having my own struggling oldie!
		
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She was only struggling with how little grass there was in the previous field. There is plenty in the new field, so that is no longer a problem
And this winter will be SO MUCH different than last winter. Last winter i couldnt drive and lady was kept 40mins away from me. now i can drive and she is just down the road i can get there whenever i want and will have a full time job come summer (i only have part time atm) i will be able to afford the food and hay easily.
im not trying 'everything' ive moved fields nearer to where i live, with more grass. Now i KNOW she is getting good 
grass all day and being fed twice a day without worry.
She has shown improvement already, and she will no doubt be getting better and better


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## Amymay (15 May 2011)

Jade, I know you don't think I'm nice - but there's no point sugar coating things.

You've had, and continue to have, a real problem in caring for your horse.


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## Girlracer (15 May 2011)

JadeyyAndLadyy said:



			She was only struggling with how little grass there was in the previous field. There is plenty in the new field, so that is no longer a problem
And this winter will be SO MUCH different than last winter. Last winter i couldnt drive and lady was kept 40mins away from me. now i can drive and she is just down the road i can get there whenever i want and will have a full time job come summer (i only have part time atm) i will be able to afford the food and hay easily.
im not trying 'everything' ive moved fields nearer to where i live, with more grass. Now i KNOW she is getting good 
grass all day and being fed twice a day without worry.
She has shown improvement already, and she will no doubt be getting better and better
		
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This, for me, sets the alarm bells off.

So you are struggling to care for your horse, i'm guessing due to money and transport, from what you've said. And that is the sole reason your horse is in such a state? 

Hm....


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## devilwoman (15 May 2011)

I have to agree i'm sorry, she does look pretty poor for this time of year, most of us are struggling to keep weight off, I appreciate she's a poor doer and elderly, but I think she should still be looking better, I do hope you can get some weight on her during the summer, otherwise the winter is going to be very hard for her, good luck, maybe post a photo in another month's time and we'll all be saying how wonderful she looks, hopefully.


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## JadeyyAndLadyy (15 May 2011)

Girlracer said:



			This, for me, sets the alarm bells off.

So you are struggling to care for your horse, i'm guessing due to money and transport, from what you've said. And that is the sole reason your horse is in such a state? 

Hm....
		
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How am i struggling? she is in a better home, its easier for me and better for her. What makes you think im struggling for money?


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## JadeyyAndLadyy (15 May 2011)

devilwoman said:



			I have to agree i'm sorry, she does look pretty poor for this time of year, most of us are struggling to keep weight off, I appreciate she's a poor doer and elderly, but I think she should still be looking better, I do hope you can get some weight on her during the summer, otherwise the winter is going to be very hard for her, good luck, maybe post a photo in another month's time and we'll all be saying how wonderful she looks, hopefully.
		
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Oh i will, dont worry  
I will post again in a months time, with her looking FANTASTIC! And there is NO way she'll get thin again.


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## littlemisslauren (15 May 2011)

I'm sorry Jadey but I really don't think she is looking as well as she should be 

We have recently moved much older horses onto starvation paddocks because they were looking too well and we don't even have amazing grass.

There is no point worrying over spilt milk, but you can learn from this 

Feed all year round and give her hay as well as the good grass if you have to. There is nothing wrong with rugging all year round to stop her feeling any chills too.


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## JadeyyAndLadyy (15 May 2011)

littlemisslauren said:



			I'm sorry Jadey but I really don't think she is looking as well as she should be 

We have recently moved much older horses onto starvation paddocks because they were looking too well and we don't even have amazing grass.

There is no point worrying over spilt milk, but you can learn from this 

Feed all year round and give her hay as well as the good grass if you have to. There is nothing wrong with rugging all year round to stop her feeling any chills too.
		
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Thank you LML, and yes i agree she is not looking as well as she should be, this is why i moved her closer to a field with longer, better grass, and she is fed all year round. Ive tried giving her hay, she doesnt want it, just walks away and munches on the grass.


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## Tormenta (15 May 2011)

If someone was entrusted to give this mare her morning feeds and wasn't doing so unknown to Jade then it can be a good enough reason for some horses, especially elderly ones to start dropping weight. Given the other fact that on her previous yard the grazing wasn't good, one dropped meal a day can make that difference. I am sure many of us have been let down by someone we have trusted at some point. Hopefully now that has been recognised and dealt with, Ladey will start to put on weight again. I do echo the good idea though Jade to save some money as a Winter feeding account, she may need more this Winter and although hay is good in general (one of mine gets fat looking at it) if she can't chew properly then she won't get the goodness out of digesting it. One of my friends gives her oldie a trug of readigrass overnight during the winter in addition to her meals. Might be worth the while looking into something like that, if she can chew okay why not get in some good quality haylage?

Good luck anyway.


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## JadeyyAndLadyy (15 May 2011)

Tormenta said:



			If someone was entrusted to give this mare her morning feeds and wasn't doing so unknown to Jade then it can be a good enough reason for some horses, especially elderly ones to start dropping weight. Given the other fact that on her previous yard the grazing wasn't good, one dropped meal a day can make that difference. I am sure many of us have been let down by someone we have trusted at some point. Hopefully now that has been recognised and dealt with, Ladey will start to put on weight again. I do echo the good idea though Jade to save some money as a Winter feeding account, she may need more this Winter and although hay is good in general (one of mine gets fat looking at it) if she can't chew properly then she won't get the goodness out of digesting it. One of my friends gives her oldie a trug of readigrass overnight during the winter in addition to her meals. Might be worth the while looking into something like that, if she can chew okay why not get in some good quality haylage?

Good luck anyway.
		
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Thank you Tormenta, youve said what ive been trying to say throughout this thread 
I did have the dentist out on friday, but he couldnt do her without sedation, so we're getting the vet out as they are getting quite sharp. Other than that, she can chew fine, just cant pick up short grass


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## Lexie81 (15 May 2011)

She does look better in the second pic, that much is true, but she does look particularly poor in the first one and i personally would not have been able to sit by and watch my horse become so underweight-she must have gradually got worse she wouldnt have become skin and bone over night....

i'm not trying to be mean, I am sure you love her to bits and really do care but you need to think very carefully about how you are going to get her right, and keep her right...especially going in to the winter.

what is she having feed wise at the moment? Has the vet taken bloods? My last horse dropped weight and looked terrible due to aneamia which was sorted with blood tests and a jab...


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## dingle12 (15 May 2011)

She is looking a little better but still poor well done for trying and keep it up, is she getting any feed too to build her up? if so what are you feeding her? spillers conditioning mix or nuts are very good.

What she done to her back leg?


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## littlemisslauren (15 May 2011)

JadeyyAndLadyy said:



			Thank you LML, and yes i agree she is not looking as well as she should be, this is why i moved her closer to a field with longer, better grass, and she is fed all year round. Ive tried giving her hay, she doesnt want it, just walks away and munches on the grass.
		
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Have you tried haylage? Alot of ours will turn their noses up at hay but will happily munch haylage


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## penhwnllys_stardust (15 May 2011)

JadeyyAndLadyy said:



			What makes you think im struggling for money?
		
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Because you own a horse


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## JadeyyAndLadyy (15 May 2011)

As soon as i noticed what was going on, i got in touch with a few people regarding moving Lady. This took about 2 weeks to find somewhere. During this time i would take her out inhand for about 2 hours for her to eat longer grass.

She is fed on alfalfa, D&H build up mix and kwikbeet. I wouldve put her on alfa a oil but there wasnt any in stock when i got the food so i got alfalfa instead.
She got a couple of cuts on her legs from hooning around with the other horses


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## JadeyyAndLadyy (15 May 2011)

penhwnllys_stardust said:



			Because you own a horse 

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This did make me smile


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## JadeyyAndLadyy (15 May 2011)

littlemisslauren said:



			Have you tried haylage? Alot of ours will turn their noses up at hay but will happily munch haylage

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No i havent tried it, might be worth giving it a go


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## Lexie81 (15 May 2011)

Sounds like she is having a good diet, how many times a day are you feeding her? when i was trying to get weight on my mare she had 3 feeds a day.
Ordinary vegetable oil from the supermarket can be added to her feeds. i was advised by my vet to do this with my horse to up the calorie content of her feeds. Allen and Page fast fibre is great too, it is soft like a mash so good for oldies and she can have some to nibble at in addition to her normal feeds and hay...a friend of mine with a ribby ex racer swears by it.


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## JadeyyAndLadyy (15 May 2011)

Lexie81 said:



			Sounds like she is having a good diet, how many times a day are you feeding her? when i was trying to get weight on my mare she had 3 feeds a day.
Ordinary vegetable oil from the supermarket can be added to her feeds. i was advised by my vet to do this with my horse to up the calorie content of her feeds. Allen and Page fast fibre is great too, it is soft like a mash so good for oldies and she can have some to nibble at in addition to her normal feeds and hay...a friend of mine with a ribby ex racer swears by it.
		
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She is fed morning and evening  and i was planning on picking up some oil from the supermarket next time i go shopping 
I havent tried F&F, if Lady doesnt improve (which im sure she will) ill give it a try


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## MizzPurpleKitten (15 May 2011)

I don't want to start an argument or come across as harsh but after reading this thread I do tend to agree with AmyMay and the like.

You've basically stated a number of excuses for your mare becoming as thin and poor as she was but, this does not happen overnight (as others have said) and, had this been either of my boys (both veterans, one 21 this year and one 17) I'd have been nipping it in the bud AS SOON as I saw the weight loss starting! You say you spoke to people about moving her as soon as you found out about the problems, this to me gives the impression that you didn't even go to see her for some time and thus you have to take some responsibility.

My eldest lad came to me in a state much like your mare in the first pic, he was very poor and very thin....with good feed and lots of TLC he has constantly improved and looks like a 6yr old now so age, lack of good grass (especially during winter when 90% of us have little to no grass anyway) and unable to drive (I can't either, I got 2 buses to see my boys every day and 2 buses home until my OH got a car last month!) are just no excuse as far as I'm concerned.

I agree with what others have said, please learn from this and try and prepare yourself (and Lady) for the forthcoming winter whilst the weather (and grass) is good. Put away a winter feeding fund, feed her twice daily and give her ad-lib hay/haylage as well to get some weight on her. I truly hope she does improve


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## somethingorother (15 May 2011)

I haven't always posted but have followed your story with Lady for a long time. I am always shocked at her. And now especially. This did not happen in 2 or 3 weeks, it should have been obvious and it should have been stopped way before she got in the state she was in. Yes she is putting wright on now she is on grass. Which suggests to me the main problem this horse had to lose so much weight is a basic lack of food. No excuses, you have let her down yet again jade. She should never get into that state with careful management and monitoring. 

I guess she may well be fine over the summer, and i am glad you are getting her teeth sorted, but what when the winter comes and the grass goes again? It doesn't last forever. She needs ad lib haylage as a minimum. This means that she should never be without. And if she were mine i would br bringing her for a few hours during the winter with a haynet, or at least maybe fencing off a small area to ensure she has access to haylage which none of the other horses can steal. She is your responsibility and it doesn't matter what excuses you tell us, you should know in your own mind that you have caused this. It's up to you to ensure she is ok, and look at her, she's not been. Again!

If i was your neighbours i would be reporting you every day too. It makes me angry for your horse.  I'm not trying to be nasty, but you need to quit with the excuses and take responsibility for the care of your horse. And if you can't do that then you need to think about how you can ensure she doesn't go hungry and suffer... which may involve a hard but not unkind decision. 

Please just think about it. I really don't want to see photos of lady looking like this yet again in another 9-12 months

I hope to god you have no thoughts of riding her again for a few months.


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## Bedlam (15 May 2011)

I would also suggest a worm count if you're not already on a good worming programme. Make sure that you poo pick her field regularly to keep it clean, and try to manage your grazing by rotating and treating.

Does she have a stable? She may benefit from coming in during the day to ad lib haylage and a couple of good feeds or a veteran mix (I think she's quite old from memory)?

I have read your threads since the beginning and I respect you for keeping on coming back despite the slatings you get on here. I think they are pretty justified to be honest, if a little blunt, but you do seem to take notice and try your hardest to do the best for your horse. Don't be put off, keep coming back, and keep looking for help and advice. She does look marginally better in the second pic, but I'm another one that is restricting grazing at the moment to keep weight down. She's suprisingly poor imho for this time of year.


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## JadeyyAndLadyy (15 May 2011)

MizzPurpleKitten said:



			You say you spoke to people about moving her as soon as you found out about the problems, this to me gives the impression that you didn't even go to see her for some time and thus you have to take some responsibility.
		
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Basically. My friends did the morning feed, i did the evening. I started to notice the buckets being in exactly the same place that i left them the previous evening. THIS is when i started planning moving her. I saw lady everyday


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## somethingorother (15 May 2011)

JadeyyAndLadyy said:



			Basically. My friends did the morning feed, i did the evening. I started to notice the buckets being in exactly the same place that i left them the previous evening. THIS is when i started planning moving her. I saw lady everyday
		
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The sign that something is amis should have been your hat rack horse, not an unmoved feed bucket. Did she have a rug on? Did you take it off to check her? I'm sure i have seen excuses in the past of people not feeding her when they said they would. I think it's down to you to feed her, she's your horse.


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## JadeyyAndLadyy (15 May 2011)

somethingorother said:



			I guess she may well be fine over the summer, and i am glad you are getting her teeth sorted, but what when the winter comes and the grass goes again? It doesn't last forever.
		
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She is currently in an 8 acre field, which is rested half the year. in the winter months she is going to be in a different field approx 6 or 7 acres which is also rested half the year.


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## JadeyyAndLadyy (15 May 2011)

Bedlam said:



			I would also suggest a worm count if you're not already on a good worming programme. Make sure that you poo pick her field regularly to keep it clean, and try to manage your grazing by rotating and treating.

Does she have a stable? She may benefit from coming in during the day to ad lib haylage and a couple of good feeds or a veteran mix (I think she's quite old from memory)?

I have read your threads since the beginning and I respect you for keeping on coming back despite the slatings you get on here. I think they are pretty justified to be honest, if a little blunt, but you do seem to take notice and try your hardest to do the best for your horse. Don't be put off, keep coming back, and keep looking for help and advice. She does look marginally better in the second pic, but I'm another one that is restricting grazing at the moment to keep weight down. She's suprisingly poor imho for this time of year.
		
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I did a worm count on friday 
Thanks


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## somethingorother (15 May 2011)

JadeyyAndLadyy said:



			She is currently in an 8 acre field, which is rested half the year. in the winter months she is going to be in a different field approx 6 or 7 acres which is also rested half the year.
		
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And when it turns to mud or is covered in snow? How many horses are on 6 or 7 acres? That amount of space would struggle to support more than 5 for anywhere close to half a year imo without extra forage.


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## Mildred (15 May 2011)

This is what I struggle to comprehend - you see her every day and you said she looked great through the winter but she can't have lost that much condition overnight. How can you not notice a horse getting that poor? I'm not trying to be nasty, or harsh, or blunt, but I think the responsibility for the mare's poor condition lies with you - it isn't a surprise to you that she obviously requires careful (and regular!) feeding, she's looked like this before.  Anyway. I'm not saying what you want to hear, so I'm bowing out now.  

Hopefully if you love her as much as you claim, there won't be any more photos of a poor old horse in very poor condition.


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## JadeyyAndLadyy (15 May 2011)

somethingorother said:



			The sign that something is amis should have been your hat rack horse, not an unmoved feed bucket. Did she have a rug on? Did you take it off to check her? I'm sure i have seen excuses in the past of people not feeding her when they said they would. I think it's down to you to feed her, she's your horse.
		
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I know shes my responsibilty. That is why i moved her, so that i didnt have to rely on anyone else.


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## RuthnMeg (15 May 2011)

Oh, for christs sake! Some people are being unnecessarily harsh. Lady looks fine, and far from 'poor' in reality. So, we can see her ribs, she is short of muscles/lack of fitness and her coat hasn't come through properly in the first pic, but thats not nearing deaths door! Jade works hard at this mare, yet she is proud of her too and some of you are the sort of people who puts real dampeners on horse ownership. 
My elderly mare, in comparisson to Lady, at one point looked very thin coming out of winter in mid march time. She had been fine all through the worst of the winter and suddenly dropped off like no tomorrow. Yet, when I posted a pic of her, I had comments of her being 'fat'!  It doesn't add up, and Lady being the type of horse she is, is never going to be 'well covered'. Also, have to note, why are people questioning the first photo, when clearly the horse has improved? Should you not be applauding Jade on the right choices she has made for the horse in order to get her looking better? 
 Jade, you are doing a fab job and Lady IS looking well.


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## JadeyyAndLadyy (15 May 2011)

somethingorother said:



			And when it turns to mud or is covered in snow? How many horses are on 6 or 7 acres? That amount of space would struggle to support more than 5 for anywhere close to half a year imo without extra forage.
		
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4, with one on 24/7 muzzling.
She will have ad lib hay this winter


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## JadeyyAndLadyy (15 May 2011)

RuthnMeg said:



			Oh, for christs sake! Some people are being unnecessarily harsh. Lady looks fine, and far from 'poor' in reality. So, we can see her ribs, she is short of muscles/lack of fitness and her coat hasn't come through properly in the first pic, but thats not nearing deaths door! Jade works hard at this mare, yet she is proud of her too and some of you are the sort of people who puts real dampeners on horse ownership. 
My elderly mare, in comparisson to Lady, at one point looked very thin coming out of winter in mid march time. She had been fine all through the worst of the winter and suddenly dropped off like no tomorrow. Yet, when I posted a pic of her, I had comments of her being 'fat'!  It doesn't add up, and Lady being the type of horse she is, is never going to be 'well covered'. Also, have to note, why are people questioning the first photo, when clearly the horse has improved? Should you not be applauding Jade on the right choices she has made for the horse in order to get her looking better? 
 Jade, you are doing a fab job and Lady IS looking well.
		
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Thank you, This really does mean alot to me x


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## Amymay (15 May 2011)

So did she not have asking hay this winter? And if your friend did th am feed and you the pm, who fed the 3rd??


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## dingle12 (15 May 2011)

I found the spillers conditioning mix alot better then D&H i had a old TB that came through a bad winter he went on oil, spillers mix and alfa a oil within 4 weeks he looked like a different horse and a fantastic coat.


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## MrsMozart (15 May 2011)

Not read all the replies, and with regard to Jade and her care of her horse, well I guess one can only watch and see. From what I remember of what I've read, she seems to care about the horse.

But, I would like to point out that some horses do indeed lose weight if they don't have good Spring grass. Dizzy is a case in point. Every year, if the grass does not come through well enough, no matter what I feed her, she loses weight.

I've had her on: Baileys No. 1, 4, and their Outshine; Alpha A Oil; Blue Chip Pro; Saracens Releave and their Equijewel; sugarbeet; soaked oats. Feed has been up to four times a day. Haylage was ad lib. But, she would not put on weight. Vet has checked her over to within an inch of her life, but no underlying problems.

I have just moved Dizzy again to another yard as the March and April rains did not come and we just about ran out of grass. The two littlies are doing well, they have a good covering and I'm happy with them (as is the vet). But, again, it was not enough for Dizzy. Grey Mare was looking a bit light as well, so she's with Dizz at the new yard, where there is grass galore and they are both starting to look much better.

Note: they have both been in for a week whilst Dizz was on box rest. They've had more good hay than they could eat in a day/night and fed twice a day, but both started to look a bit light again. Now they're back out in the field, I expect their weights to improve again.


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## Amymay (15 May 2011)

Adlib not asking. Sorry on phone.


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## LadyRascasse (15 May 2011)

I haven't read the post properly but can I make a suggestion? I have an old boy he is 24 and has cushings he goes into depressions and refuses to eat so you can imagine how hard it is to keep weight on him when he goes through theses stages. Anyway cut the story short, all winter he refused to eat his haylage (regardless of supplier) so we left him with ad lib haylage and we feed him a 2 stubb scoops (dry weight) of AP Veteran Vitality for him to munch through over night. he was barely eating a section of haylage in 24 hours and there was no grazing. But this maintain a nice level of condition throughout the winter, no ribs in sight and he was fully clipped out. 

Ok enough waffle what I am trying to say is I would throughly recommend AP veteran Vitality maybe not in the quantities I fed my lad but it is amazing stuff.


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## PapaFrita (15 May 2011)

Jade, I've followed Lady's story with interest, although I've not posted much. I'm so pleased you've got her nearby now and will be able to look after her properly. I do know how it feels; I've had someone I counted on and trusted IMPLICITY neglect my horse, and feed me BS stories as to why she was skinny. For those who would like to cross-examine me, I am in an entirely different continent to PF, and sometimes you DO have to rely on people. Luckily I found her a better place and she's now doing brilliantly. I look forward to seeing Lady looking fab in a few weeks.


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## Fii (15 May 2011)

Ok you have come in for a bit of flack on this thread, again, but most of what has been said has been very good advice.
 A week on good grass was not going to make a lot of difference visually, why not wait another three/four weeks then post some more pics, i for one would be interested in the change.
  Durring this time if it were me, i would not ride her at all, just let her have the time eating and putting on weight.
  Just remember in the winter, even if the grass is long and looks lush, it wont have a lot of goodness in it, so your feed and hay/hayledge will have to be upped, and maybe even think about cutting back your riding.


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## Tickles (15 May 2011)

Pleased Lady now has better grass. Urge OP not to ride until her condition is a fair bit better though. She may be improving but she has a long way to go before she needs working. Good luck.


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## ofcourseyoucan (15 May 2011)

sorry i think she still looks very poor, and your grass doesnt look fab either. keep feeding 2 to 3 times a day bucket food. i know you have worm counted but sorry i would do a 5 day guard. i defnetely wouldnt be working this horse until it has gained 200kg. i have 2 elderly (29 and 31) and i thought that they wintered poorly but they look positively obese compared to this. if she hasnt blossomed and bulged before oct maybe it is time to call it a day if she is such a por doer. or at least bring her in each night, and stuff the grub. have you had her bloods done? does she have a metabolic disorder and not absorbing nutrients? best of luck anyway. the poor doers are not easy.


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## missyme10 (15 May 2011)

I have not seen your previous posts about your mare, but from what I can gather on this thread, you have had her for some time and she has been in poor condition before.
This tells me you already knew she was a poor doer this winter, so I tend to agree with many that poor grass isn't an excuse as it is up to an owner to ensure their horse is fit and healthy.

Its not difficult to monitor the condition of a horse. I have 3 horses/ponies and have to monitor their weight carefully. One due to being prone to Laminitus, the other 2 due to being hairy native types that can get fat just looking at good grass.
This only takes me 5 mins per week for each horse, it just takes a quick feel and visual look and using the weigh tape, you can carefully monitor your horses weight this way and adjust their forage and feeds accordingly week by week.

So my suggestion to you is to get this mare to her right weight, and monitor carefully week by week and adjust accordingly, if one week she's dropped 5kg, increase her forage and feeds so she doesn't drop a further 5kg the next week. If you do this, you will never have her in this condition again. There would be no excuse for her to ever be like this again, you know she struggles with her weight in winter.

I'd also say please dont even think of riding her until her condition has improved, everything should be aimed at her improving her condition right now, and when you do start exercising her, build up gradually and monitor the effect on her weight carefully.

Good luck with her xxx


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## Shearer (15 May 2011)

Not going to comment on her condition as i think it's pretty much been covered already...

Glad you've got her closer now though it's definately for the best, where abouts have you moved her to i know you're not far from me?

Is there any way you could have her stabled/part stabled when the weather starts to decline, if she's not getting anything from the grass anyway she may aswell stand warm in a stable and munch haylage for at least part of the day or overnight?


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## Fii (15 May 2011)

pastie2 said:



			I would personally like to remove this poor old mare from the OP. She has not a clue and it just reminds me of all the awfull and clueless out there in the world that have horses, I am not prepared to pander to Jaydey, she needs to realise that she has not the knowledge or finances to look after this poor old horse. Its a sad to see these pictures on this forum.
		
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Not pandering so much, more educating, or trying to. 

 While you may be right, in that she does'nt have the knowledge of many on here, i think all anyone can hope to do is help the op and the mare.


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## Sanolly (15 May 2011)

Fii said:



			Not pandering so much, more educating, or trying to. 

 While you may be right, in that she does'nt have the knowledge of many on here, i think all anyone can hope to do is help the op and the mare.
		
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Ah but Fii this isn't the first time the mare has come out of winter looking this poor:
Beginning of last year: http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=355730
Last summer, still looking poor and no grass in the field or any signs of hay/haylage: http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=391138


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## Bedlam (15 May 2011)

Sanolly said:



			Ah but Fii this isn't the first time the mare has come out of winter looking this poor:
Beginning of last year: http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=355730
Last summer, still looking poor and no grass in the field or any signs of hay/haylage: http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=391138

Click to expand...


OK - you've convinced me.

For Gods sake Jade - get a grip and start looking after your horse!

You've been told a thousand times on here what you need to be doing. Get on and do it before posting anymore pics. I would love to see pics in a month's time of a well covered and healthy mare.


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## missyme10 (16 May 2011)

Sanolly said:



			Ah but Fii this isn't the first time the mare has come out of winter looking this poor:
Beginning of last year: http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=355730
Last summer, still looking poor and no grass in the field or any signs of hay/haylage: http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=391138

Click to expand...

I just took a look at the other threads and read through some of them, no wonder people are being so blunt. The advice has all been given before, this horse has been in this state before and has ended up the same way again. 

Thanks for posting these threads, has fully enlightened me to the facts!

Poor mare


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## Fii (16 May 2011)

Sanolly said:



			Ah but Fii this isn't the first time the mare has come out of winter looking this poor:
Beginning of last year: http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=355730
Last summer, still looking poor and no grass in the field or any signs of hay/haylage: http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=391138

Click to expand...

I know, i have followed most of them 
 I realy feel like shouting at her, but i just don't think it will do any good.

  Jady, i think this is your last chance to get your act together, if your mare doest,nt improve dramaticaly, over the next few months, then you wont find people so helpfull and you may even have a linch mob on your hands!!


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## Mrs_Wishkabibble (16 May 2011)

I am not going to comment as I think it has already been gone over but can recommend and suggest alfalfa pellets from Dengie. You soak them like beet and they are really good for keeping weight on poor doers. I have a 21 year old TB that comes out of winter every year looking good. She is stabled at night in the winter with adlib hay and fed hard feed twice a day. 
I think you and the poor mare need some help.


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## SophieLouBee (16 May 2011)

I think I can look at this with an open mind, my aunt has a 40 something mare, who has always had a sway back, but now she looks like a bath tub, she has no muscle, only one eye, and slight arth in hocks, oh yeah and she's partially deaf. If anyone saw her, without knowing her age, history, etc etc, god knows what they would say! This mare gets fed mash, veteren feed, chaff beet and oil twice a day, she also has access to hay/haylage all the time!

But to an outsider, I'd say people would still be concerned, because of how sway backed she is, and it makes her look 10000x worse (plus she has scratched all her hair off on a tree ), and I wouldn't blame people for being concerned! People can only comment on what they see, as is for many people on this thread, but you can't expect much else!

She is out with a yearling, who keeps her active and alert, but without being hassled, and she is much loved by everyone (I rode her when I was 6, she basically taught me how to ride!). I have a feeling she doesn't have long left now either. 

Anyone can see that Ladys confo exaggerates her poor condition, and makes her look a bit worse than perhaps another horse would, but at the end of the day she still needs a lot of improving on your part. You have the advice and support from people on here, despite your past mistakes (everyone can get it wrong), and in the previous summer photos there was a dramatic improvement, even if the conditions were far from ideal, so imagine what she could be like! So PLEASE take the advice from people on here, from the feed shops, from other veteran horse owners, make those much needed changes for her sake! People won't be so forgiving next time, and you may end up having her taken away from you. I really do wish you all the best with her, you obviously do love her, but perhaps you need to get yourself up to date on caring for the older horse.


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## *hic* (16 May 2011)

JadeyyAndLadyy said:



			Basically. My friends did the morning feed, i did the evening. I started to notice the buckets being in exactly the same place that i left them the previous evening. THIS is when i started planning moving her. I saw lady everyday
		
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Jade, you need to be reactive FAR more quickly, she cannot have just dropped the weight overnight, this statement got me really worried. I know it's difficult to see things happening day by day so how about you take a quick snapshot of her tied up in the same place and stood up the same every single week and keep them as a comparison.


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## Suzie86 (16 May 2011)

She isn't elderly she's only 20!!!!!! 
Jade are you sure she isn't any older? I feel sorry for you, you're obviously trying and love her to bits


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## jokadoka (16 May 2011)

I think you've been had. The horse in these pictures is at least 6 or 7 years older( if not more ) than what you've been made to believe. My full TB is 20 this year and certainly doesn't look like that! ( Sorry to be harsh ). 
I would post photo's but am too computer illiterate to work out how to do it (!)
And I'm also very old....
I think you'll need to feed her all through summer to make sure she goes into winter with at least some condition on her, meaning a lot more than she has now, so you can stay on top of the situation before it becomes irretrievable.
I read through your previous posts though and saw the original pictures from last year and she has improved, so good on you for making that happen, stay on top of the situation, and hopefully she'll keep improving!


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## ThePinkPony (16 May 2011)

only got to page 5 of the replies before i got too cross to read any more.

Im sorry but I agree with Amymay, No 20 year old horse should look like that. and for gods sake if you are going to own a horse then look after it yourself or sell her to someone who can, dont rely on people and then blame them, surely you went to see her everyday and would have noticed her dropping weight, then with the RSPCA thing, I mean get real, hundreds of horses are on crappy grass at the moment and none are looking like yours. 

Mine is in a feild with zero grass at the moment, with two others and they look as if they were in a lush meadow, so its not an excuse at all. neither is blaming your mates, she is your horse, your responsibility. 

And the way you say ''she is improving with better grazing and a BIT OF TLC''... it sounds like TLC to you is normal horse care to anyone else. 
If a horse got into that state in my care i would be devastated and seriously considering my capabilities of owning a horse! theres no need!


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## JadeyyAndLadyy (16 May 2011)

jokadoka said:



			I think you've been had. The horse in these pictures is at least 6 or 7 years older( if not more ) than what you've been made to believe.
		
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I contacted farmkey and they confirmed her real age and breed


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## Girlracer (16 May 2011)

JadeyyAndLadyy said:



			now i can drive and she is just down the road i can get there whenever i want and will have a full time job come summer (i only have part time atm) i will be able to afford the food and hay easily.
		
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That quote there made me think you were struggling to afford her care.... i could be wrong but that's what it suggests.


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## touchstone (16 May 2011)

JadeyyAndLadyy said:



			I contacted farmkey and they confirmed her real age and breed
		
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Farmkey will only have the age that they were told she was when freezemarked though, it doesn't mean it is accurate as she could have been a different age in reality.  I certainly wouldn't rely on that as proof of her actual age.


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## jokadoka (16 May 2011)

JadeyyAndLadyy said:



			I contacted farmkey and they confirmed her real age and breed
		
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Farmkey can only go by what they are being told themselves by the person instructing them......or the bits of "documentation" they have been handed......and we all know passports are "known to be doctored occasionally"
It seems that this mare has been wrongly aged prior to her branding then, knowingly or unknowingly. I do not believe she is 20 years old.
One other thing, is there any reason you had to contact Farmkey over her age and breed, do you not hold her passport?


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## jokadoka (16 May 2011)

touchstone said:



			Farmkey will only have the age that they were told she was when freezemarked though, it doesn't mean it is accurate as she could have been a different age in reality.  I certainly wouldn't rely on that as proof of her actual age.
		
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...Great minds and all that wot...!


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## Groom42 (16 May 2011)

jokadoka said:



			I think you've been had. The horse in these pictures is at least 6 or 7 years older( if not more ) than what you've been made to believe.
		
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I don't think anyone can accurately pinpoint a horse's age by a photograph.
Some "experts" struggle to do this by checking teeth!
I think Lady's condition makes her look older than her years. That works as much with horses as humans. (Compare Brigitte Bardot and Sophia Loren - similar ages, but, my goodness, the photos would put a huge difference between them!)
It is obvious Jade loves her horse but, unfortunately, she has made mistakes along the way in her care.  It is a shame that after all her hard work following last winter she should have made similar mistakes this year.  Of course Lady didn't drop that much condition overnight.  Jade, hopefully, has learned that in "oldies" condition can change _very_ rapidly, and that thorough checks with rugs _off_ are essential.  Hopefully, she has also learned that the only person to trust with the care of your own animals is YOURSELF.  Use the summer to get her condition way up for the winter, and make absolutely sure she has AD LIB, HUGE, UNLIMITED, haylage all winter.  And that her teeth are allowing her to eat it.  Someone else mentioned old fashioned "straights" are cheaper to feed than mixes..... it's true. Think "Ready Meals" against "make it yourself".  A feed merchant/nutritionist _should_ be able to advise you how to use them.  Maybe some advice from somewhere like Bransby, who are experts in getting, and keeping, oldies in good condition?  This year it is only down to you...............good luck, and keep asking for advice.


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## Amymay (16 May 2011)

Someone else mentioned old fashioned "straights" are cheaper to feed than mixes..... it's true. Think "Ready Meals" against "make it yourself". A feed merchant/nutritionist should be able to advise you how to use them.
		
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I think that the food being used is probably spot on - tbf.  It's just the routine and management that's lacking.  And of course once the mare is able to take advantage of the superior grazing I would expect the weight to pile on her nicely, at which point the OP will be able to reduce costs by reducing the amount of hard feed during the summer months.

Jadey has said in the past that Lady doesn't like to be stabled, which is fair enough.  So one can only hope that - despite constant advice and ultimately pleas to do so - once needed the mare will in fact have ad lib hay supplied in the field in a manner which discourages fighting and bullying.

We can but hope.............


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## ThePinkPony (16 May 2011)

Its all well and good saying 'she loves her horse', but love alone doesnt keep an animal healthy does it. 

I didnt realise just how long this has been going on! I just feel so sorry for the horse.


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## Ladylina83 (16 May 2011)

Please don't be riding her until she has more condition. The pictures I saw on the earlier thread made my heart pound for her 

I agree with other posters that 20 is not old - my 19 year old came out of winter looking a little poor but it had been a really hard one plus she had a youngster weaned off her at Christmas so been out of work for 2 years and feeding 2, as a result lost her topline. She did not look like your girl and somewhat resembles an elephant now !

It has all been said before but you need to get extra palatable fiber into her diet all through the year fast fiber or fiber beet are both good for oldies with bad teeth. Also consider bogostandard shop bought oil - I went through a small bottle a week when really tryin to pick up her condition and she really improved for £1.30 a week !! & I have too keep her off the grass due to lami ! you can not blame lack of grass most of us horse owners actually fear the stuff at this time of year. Alot of horses on this forum wintered out in just light weight to rugs be careful not to rely on a rug for condition you might be better off keeping a spare to swap over if she gets sopping wet 


One thing is for sure my girl is not wintering out this year - it's pipe and slippers time for her!


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## touchstone (16 May 2011)

Lol - sorry Ladylina83, but your sig has given me the giggles


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## Humble (16 May 2011)

In the photo, she is hanging onto some winter coat, has she been wormed for tapeworm as they do not show up on worm counts?


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## Ladylina83 (16 May 2011)

touchstone said:



			Lol - sorry Ladylina83, but your sig has given me the giggles 

Click to expand...

Ha I was really angry when I wrote that - I had to eat a packet of hobnobs to get over it .... I still might sue !


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## Dizzydancer (16 May 2011)

she definately looks better and in just one week thats really good!! She seems less ribby and her bum looks less boney. Also not sure of her story.
Have to say i love the little patch of fluff on her belly though


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## misst (16 May 2011)

Our 27yo looked poor 5 weeks ago and always looks bad between March and May. 

She lives out with properly ad lib haylage and comes through winter looking good but drops at coat change. She has done this since she was about 20 or 21. She has mild cushings so holds onto her coat. Every year I worry but as soon as the coat is gone (think brushing twice a day when possible) and the grass is through she picks up. She is now just right and by September will be a little porky to go into winter. 

Like the OPs horse she hates being stabled and I see no need to do this provided she is rugged adequately and fed ad lib haylage. She has a balancer and dengie hi fi light and speedie beet in the winter and just balancer and a pinch of hi fi light in the summer. She has this twice a day. I think the secret is enough forage and making sure teeth, wormer etc are up to date. 

I wonder if the OPs horse will look better in her summer coat. Our old girlie is, however, retired and not ridden and has a stress free life nannying our youngster. She is not asked to share fields with any horse who might bully or harass her and I think this helps too. Jadey I know you love her but I really think from your past posts that you need to really get that forrage into her asap. I do not know how much support you get from your family but I know there are people on here who can and would help.
I would also agree that Lady should not be ridden at all at the moment and maybe it is time for her to have a quieter life.


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## Equinimity (16 May 2011)

What&#8217;s done is done. Horses live in the here and now and it&#8217;s up to you to make sure hers and her future is a healthy one.

Get into the habit of weigh taping her weekly all year round. This way you can tell if she&#8217;s dropping condition before it ever gets to this stage. Make a chart, stick it up somewhere and just keep on top of it. You can see as soon as she starts to drop off and address the situation immediately.

I know you&#8217;re expecting this new grass to make a huge difference &#8211; and it will, but don&#8217;t get complacent. Start building up to her winter feed regime now. 

Is she your first horse? You&#8217;re quite young aren&#8217;t you? And doing this without help from your parents? I&#8217;m sorry for you both that you ended up with a horse like her -  she is so hard to manage and whoever sold her to you must have known this. Where you warned? She certainly looks older than 20 but who knows - I hope you weren&#8217;t ripped off. But hey ho she&#8217;s yours now and there&#8217;s no reason now why she shouldn&#8217;t thrive.

If you need any advice then you can always pm me, I have a pony in her thirties and had an extremely poor doer in the past so I do understand how hard it is 

ETA - My ancient one lives out all winter so if this is your only option  then it is do-able if you are prepared to put the effort in.


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## Dizzydancer (16 May 2011)

i have just read through the rest of this post as my first post was only reading page one *oops*. 
I agree with some things you do need to pick up on weight loss much quicker. Agree pop a lw on her or one of these waterproof topped fly rugs to try and keep her dry as she is trying to put condition on you need her to be warm by other means rather than using her food to keep warm. My boy is 26 im lucky he has good teeth but he is a poor doer so over winter he is kept well rugged and has adlib haylage as well as two feeds a day. I went away when he was 14 for 2weeks and came back to finding him looking very poor YO didnt feed him as she felt he didnt need it. Needless to say the entire summer and winter he was hard to put weight on. 
Here are a few things we used to get the weight on him quickly and i know of others who have used it to good success. Guiness in the feeds, also and the best we have found was to use foal/lambs milk powder which we mixed up and at first put into his feed and then he actually drank it. They were very good also try feeding 3 times a day if possible as smaller feeds are much better for her to digest. At the moment she may be prefering the grass but be aware of the need to put hay out once the spring richness is no longer. Also i wouldnt ride her if you want to build up muscle long rein or lunge her but only at a walk.
Good luck and do think carefully about putting her through next winter if she isnt at a very good level of condition before then. It is meant to be as tough as last year.


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## Paddy Irish (16 May 2011)

JadeyyAndLadyy said:



			4, with one on 24/7 muzzling.
She will have ad lib hay this winter
		
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Hi Jade , looks like your getting some good advice here now , but i do worry when you say she's out with 4 others with one on 24/7 muzzling - no horse should be muzzled 24/7 , especially through the night when accidents can occur. If you are taking advice from the owner who muzzles 24/7 and thinks this is correct , i do think you need to spend more time with experienced people to help you and your mare get through what only seems a management crisis.


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## Groom42 (16 May 2011)

Ladylina83 said:



			Also consider bogostandard shop bought oil - I went through a small bottle a week when really tryin to pick up her condition and she really improved for £1.30 a week !!
		
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A tip for anyone considering the above........
If you have access to a cash and carry, such as Costco, you can get large barrels (about 4/5gallons) of oil like this for about £5, which makes it even cheaper!


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## Amaranta (16 May 2011)

JadeyyAndLadyy said:



			I contacted farmkey and they confirmed her real age and breed
		
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Sorry then you really have no excuse Jade, she is ONLY 20, I have a 32yo who looks better than she does, even in the depths of winter with no grass to speak of you could not see her ribs and hip bones!  At the moment she is as fat as butter on very little grass, as what grass there is is very nutritious.

Lady is very long in the back and this does make her look worse, but there is no getting away from the fact that she is very very underweight and not for the first time.


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## TheEquineOak (16 May 2011)

*FACEPALM*

Feed it.

Feed it, Feed it, Feed it.

Alfa A oil, vegetable oil, veteran/buildup mix and ad lib HAYLAGE.

Over the winter our grass was covered in snow and then ice for 11 WEEKS.  None of them looked as poor as this.

Weight tapes cost a couple of quid, buy one and use it EVERY week

I look forward to seeing some pics of her in the summer up to weight and looking healthy

PS. there are so many contradictions on this thread I have gone cross eyed


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## Sadiemay (16 May 2011)

OP, I am echoing what the others have said.  

I find the pictures of Lady very distressing indeed , something is clearly very wrong be it in her management or her health (I suspect both) and I really hope you have the vet out sooner rather than later...like tomorrow. 

I can see from your posts you love your horse, but love is not enough to make her healthy and well.

I have my fingers crossed your follow the advice given on this thread and that Lady picks up soon.  

But please....dont ever let her get into this state again, she deserves so much better than this.

Good luck and please let us know how you get on


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## rosie fronfelen (17 May 2011)

Does she not have a stable for the winter months?winter before last she looked horrific.


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## hunting mad (17 May 2011)

rosiefronfelen said:



			Does she not have a stable for the winter months?winter before last she looked horrific.
		
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I think somewhere along the lines it says the horse cant be stabled...i stand to be corrected though


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## Amymay (17 May 2011)

hunting mad said:



			I think somewhere along the lines it says the horse cant be stabled...i stand to be corrected though
		
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You are right.  Jadey has said that the mare stresses when stabled.


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## chestnut cob (17 May 2011)

I've only skimmed this thread, read the first page and the last couple so I think most people are saying the same thing...

I'm sorry to be harsh but to me, Lady doesn't look any better than a couple of weeks ago.  Having a poor doer is difficult.  My YO's older (21 I think, maybe 20) TB who only has 3 teeth is looking far better and even in summer, she has to give him hard feed.  He is currently out on reasonable grass (he gets first dibs on the fields to eat them down before the fatties go on them!), gets hard feed and has a big pile of haylage overnight.  Feed-wise I think he's getting Alfa A, nuts and maybe a build-up mix.  His feeds are usually split into at least 2 a day so that he has a chance to digest each one properly.

OP- would it be possible for you to section off part of the field for Lady to go in for part of the day where she can have haylage and hard feed?  If you can keep her away from the other horses for a while each day, you can give adlib haylage and some hard feed easily.  FWIW, my very good doer is separated from the other horses during the day - he goes onto what is basically a dust patch for soaked hay then out muzzled overnight.  It is possible to separate horses to make it easier to manage them.


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## rosie fronfelen (17 May 2011)

amymay said:



			You are right.  Jadey has said that the mare stresses when stabled.
		
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OKthen,does she have a shelter in her field?


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## joeanne (17 May 2011)

Dont know about the new place but the old place did not.


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## penhwnllys_stardust (17 May 2011)

When I first saw this thread I thought OP had rescued the horse but on reading the replies it seems that was not the case, poor horse, I hope she recieves the care she needs :/


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## Wagtail (17 May 2011)

RuthnMeg said:



			Oh, for christs sake! Some people are being unnecessarily harsh. Lady looks fine, and far from 'poor' in reality. So, we can see her ribs, she is short of muscles/lack of fitness and her coat hasn't come through properly in the first pic, but thats not nearing deaths door! Jade works hard at this mare, yet she is proud of her too and some of you are the sort of people who puts real dampeners on horse ownership. 
My elderly mare, in comparisson to Lady, at one point looked very thin coming out of winter in mid march time. She had been fine all through the worst of the winter and suddenly dropped off like no tomorrow. Yet, when I posted a pic of her, I had comments of her being 'fat'!  It doesn't add up, and Lady being the type of horse she is, is never going to be 'well covered'. Also, have to note, why are people questioning the first photo, when clearly the horse has improved? Should you not be applauding Jade on the right choices she has made for the horse in order to get her looking better? 
 Jade, you are doing a fab job and Lady IS looking well.
		
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 She doesn't look poor in the pics? Sheesh! Should've gone to specsavers.


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## ThePinkPony (17 May 2011)

Im sorry but that horse does not look WELL at all. 

Blimey does a horse literally have to be on deaths door before people get real with the owner. I dont give a feck if it upsets jadey, if it does at least she can go and have a burger!


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## Wagtail (17 May 2011)

I have to agree with Amymay. There is never an excuse for a horse to get this poor. There is no such thing as wintering badly if a horse is well fed and rugged. Most the horses I have cared for and owned have been TBs. Some have been in their late twenties. All of them come through winter with a good covering over their ribs and rump. Yes, it costs me a fortune. On average £21 per week per horse in haylage alone. Some eat around £30 of the stuff. If she drops weight this winter despite ad lib hay, then you could try some Allen and Page Fast Fibre. It is excellent.


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## Spudlet (17 May 2011)

There is some small improvement, but if this horse is not sorted and properly looked after this winter, with sufficient feed, rugs and access to shelter, I doubt she will make next spring.

J&L, you need to step up to the plate from this point forwards - no more excuses, no more 'my friend let me down': she's your horse and if you don't sort her out, it's no one's fault but yours.


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## hunting mad (17 May 2011)

I dont know if it has been suggested.I have a poor doer,and put her on pink powders with fantastic results


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## Amymay (17 May 2011)

hunting mad said:



			I dont know if it has been suggested.I have a poor doer,and put her on pink powders with fantastic results
		
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The horse just needs feeding and forage......


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## Sadiemay (17 May 2011)

FGS!, How on EARTH can you say that horse looks "well"   I agree you need a trip to Spec Savers lady and make it pronto for the sake of this poor horse.

She is skin and bone and clearly NOT well condition nor I suspect health wise  

I dont know what your loyalty/relationship is to OP but it is blinding your judgement grossly and that is very concerning indeed if you have direct contact with the OP who sounds very young and impressionable with regards to management of this poor mare. It makes me so angry, it really does.

My horse is 24 years old and looks a picture of health due to correct feeding/healthcare and general management so there is no excuse at all for Lady to look this way. 

Jade, I am afraid you are doing NOT doing a fab job and Lady is NOT looking well at ALL. This is not an attack to you personally, its a FACT sadly


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## Kenzo (17 May 2011)

The horse doesnt look any better which is sad to see.

An old equine with very bad teeth will eventually struggle even on the best of yards, sometimes you have to know when to call it a day for the animals sake.  

It really is this simple, keep the horse on a yard where his needs are catered for.good grazing all year through, ample hay available at all times, a place to feed him individually so others are not taking his rations, if the horse still doesnt pick up then (given 6 months), well thats a sign to say good bye in my view.

I don't mean any of the above in a harsh way and obviously you do care about your horse and love him very much, I don't think anyone doubts that, also I don't think his conformation helps matters when looking at photos but you can only do what you can do (or afford) you have to face facts and see what is before your eyes, which is starved horse, be it just because he's old and can't eat properly because of his teeth or because he's not got the food there to eat.

People are only telling you this because they want to help you and your horse.


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## equestrianabbie (17 May 2011)

rosiefronfelen said:



			OKthen,does she have a shelter in her field?
		
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I know Jadine well, we live in the same area and went to school together etc.  I know she'd been trying hard to move Lady and I myself helped her as soon as she said that her friends were neglecting her horse.

Also reply from Jadine:  Lady has a lot of natural shelter like trees and bushes, but not an actual shelter.  Even if she did she wouldn't use it.


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## PonyIAmNotFood (17 May 2011)

equestrianabbie said:



			I know Jadine well, we live in the same area and went to school together etc.  I know she'd been trying hard to move Lady and I myself helped her as soon as she said that her friends were neglecting her horse.

Also reply from Jadine:  Lady has a lot of natural shelter like trees and bushes, but not an actual shelter.  Even if she did she wouldn't use it.
		
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Nothing was done fast enough though, to let the horse get into that state before she did anything is awful, it's good that she did do something but something should have been done the minute Lady looked like she'd lost a single pound, especially with her history.


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## Ladylina83 (17 May 2011)

equestrianabbie said:



			she said that her friends were neglecting her horse..
		
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 She said here friends were only supposed to feed her once out of her 3 feeds a day, I find it hard to a) call that neglect or b) understand how she got like this from only missing 1 feed 



equestrianabbie said:



			Also reply from Jadine:  Lady has a lot of natural shelter like trees and bushes, but not an actual shelter.  Even if she did she wouldn't use it.
		
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 So that's a no then !


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## ThePinkPony (17 May 2011)

well, lady is jadines horse and not her friends responsibility. 

And how did she not notice, if her feed had been missed she surely would have acted differently, and how could you not notice her dropping so much weight? surely you check her over EVERY day? pick out her feet and at best groom her? Also, given her history you would surely be weight taping her to make sure she doesnt do badly again.

I think this horse needs to be cared for by someone with an idea of what they need to be doing.


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## Amymay (17 May 2011)

equestrianabbie said:



			I know she'd been trying hard to move Lady and I myself helped her as soon as she said that her friends were neglecting her horse.
		
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I think we need to be clear here that whilst it's true that Jade may have been let down by her friends, there was no neglect by them.  I actually think that's quiet a serious allegation to make (unless of course Jade had handed over the entire care of the horse to them, which is not what she has said on this thread).  They were feeding one feed out of three.  Jade presumably fed the other two feeds, and was responsble for ensuring an adequate adlib hay supply for her horse. And of course ensuring that her horse maintained a good body wait by checking her thoroughly daily.

So Jade saw her horse up close and personal twice a day - and still she is poor.




			Also reply from Jadine:  Lady has a lot of natural shelter like trees and bushes, but not an actual shelter.  Even if she did she wouldn't use it.
		
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Providing there is plenty of natural shelter then a field shelter is not always necessary, I agree.


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## joeanne (17 May 2011)

I think that ultimately what is needed here, is good solid advice from a vet and equine nutritionalist. 
The mare is going into a second summer looking extremely poor, and unless something is done to rectify this, then her outlook is bleak to say the least.
I am not sure that Jade is as on the ball as she could be, nor as experienced as she thinks. Forget not that she was riding Lady whilst she looked like this last year, and saw nothing wrong with it.
Perhaps what the little mare needs is to be retired and then what feed she is getting can go towards laying down some fat instead of burning it off in exercise.


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## Amymay (17 May 2011)

joeanne said:



			Perhaps what the little mare needs is to be retired and then what feed she is getting can go towards laying down some fat instead of burning it off in exercise.
		
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I suggested this last year when it was obvious that the mare was experience particular difficulties with soundness and ridden work.


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## BBH (17 May 2011)

I'm new to this thread and I haven't read other posts but OP your horse looks shocking. Its not rocket science just feed her.

You have a responsibility to provide a suitable diet for her needs, no ifs or buts or someone else didn't do it. Horses don't get thin like that overnight.

If i've missed something and she has grass sickness or other wasting disease then I apologise but you'll appreciate this thread is too long to read.


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## PonyIAmNotFood (17 May 2011)

BBH said:



			If i've missed something and she has grass sickness or other wasting disease then I apologise but you'll appreciate this thread is too long to read.
		
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Maybe this will kick Jade up the backside a bit when people are saying that from immediate appearances the horse looks like she has a serious illness!! Although, if RSPCA reports aren't doing it, maybe not eh


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## lexiedhb (17 May 2011)

amymay said:



			I think we need to be clear here that whilst it's true that Jade may have been let down by her friends, there was no neglect by them.  I actually think that's quiet a serious allegation to make (unless of course Jade had handed over the entire care of the horse to them, which is not what she has said on this thread).  They were feeding one feed out of three.  Jade presumably fed the other two feeds, and was responsble for ensuring an adequate adlib hay supply for her horse. And of course ensuring that her horse maintained a good body wait by checking her thoroughly daily.

So Jade saw her horse up close and personal twice a day - and still she is poor.



Providing there is plenty of natural shelter then a field shelter is not always necessary, I agree.
		
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Did Jade not say in one onf the very earliest posts that before the move, she could not drive, and so it took over 45 mins to get to yard? I think we can safely say she was not feeding the horse twice a day.


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## Bojangles (17 May 2011)

I have seen a lot worse then this. Yes you can see ribs is that such a bad thing or is it that people are used to see well coverd horses ie fat ones!! I wouldnt say she very poor like some of the comments that have been made. her comformce isnt great. She lacking muscle topline etc. I do feel for you as you getting harsh comments that won't be helping you. I've know a horse who eat loads a old chap just couldnt hold enough weight he was a happy chappy well look after disepite everyone saying hes a hat rack. 

Hope Dr Green works well for her. Im sure with time she put the weight back on.


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## Amymay (17 May 2011)

lexiedhb said:



			Did Jade not say in one onf the very earliest posts that before the move, she could not drive, and so it took over 45 mins to get to yard? I think we can safely say she was not feeding the horse twice a day.
		
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So who was doing the 2 extra feeds and hay then I wonder


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## Wagtail (17 May 2011)

lexiedhb said:



			Did Jade not say in one onf the very earliest posts that before the move, she could not drive, and so it took over 45 mins to get to yard? I think we can safely say she was not feeding the horse twice a day.
		
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My thoughts exactly. I als wonder who was breaking the ice on the water trough several times a day as I had to do during that awful December freeze over. Hopefully the livery YO or other liveries? I know a few people were posting that ice didn't have to be broken as horses got enough moisture from the snow! Sorry to go off topic.


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## Amymay (17 May 2011)

Bojangles said:



			I have seen a lot worse then this. Yes you can see ribs is that such a bad thing or is it that people are used to see well coverd horses ie fat ones!! I wouldnt say she very poor like some of the comments that have been made. her comformce isnt great. She lacking muscle topline etc. I do feel for you as you getting harsh comments that won't be helping you. I've know a horse who eat loads a old chap just couldnt hold enough weight he was a happy chappy well look after disepite everyone saying hes a hat rack.
		
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This is a two year ongoing situation unfortunately of mismanagement bordering on neglect.  Hence people getting so hot under the collar about it.

The horse is poor - there is no getting around it.


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## Wagtail (17 May 2011)

Bojangles said:



			I have seen a lot worse then this. Yes you can see ribs is that such a bad thing or is it that people are used to see well coverd horses ie fat ones!! I wouldnt say she very poor like some of the comments that have been made. her comformce isnt great. She lacking muscle topline etc. I do feel for you as you getting harsh comments that won't be helping you. I've know a horse who eat loads a old chap just couldnt hold enough weight he was a happy chappy well look after disepite everyone saying hes a hat rack. 

Hope Dr Green works well for her. Im sure with time she put the weight back on.
		
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 You know, this really worries me.


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## BBH (17 May 2011)

Yes if OP is listening to people like this the poor horse has no chance.


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## ThePinkPony (17 May 2011)

Im not being funny but how can she be in oxfordshire and be 45 minutes away from good grazing? 

Even living in the city centre? has she actually bothered to look in local papers for adverts, ask around farmers? put her own ad in the paper looking for help? Surely if she cant manage the simplest of care without relying on others then she should be responsible and let lady have a better life with someone else.


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## Amymay (17 May 2011)

ThePinkPony said:



			Im not being funny but how can she be in oxfordshire and be 45 minutes away from good grazing?
		
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The horse has now been moved nearer to where she lives - which was the whole point of the post in the first place.............................


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## Bojangles (17 May 2011)

In my eyes the word poor means you can see the end of the rib cage clearly see all the ribs,pelvis etc she doesnt have yes some ribs showing she not tuck up in her belly etc. God I think theres one at our yard then as she old showing ribs But very fit and healthy!!! Have loads to eat too.


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## Wagtail (17 May 2011)

ThePinkPony said:



			Im not being funny but how can she be in oxfordshire and be 45 minutes away from good grazing? 

Even living in the city centre? has she actually bothered to look in local papers for adverts, ask around farmers? put her own ad in the paper looking for help? Surely if she cant manage the simplest of care without relying on others then she should be responsible and let lady have a better life with someone else.
		
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I think she was referring to it being 45 mins walk rather than drive. I believe she has now moved her closer to somewhere with good grazing.


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## Spudlet (17 May 2011)

Bojangles, what you are describing is emaciation. The horse is not emaciated. But nor is she fit - she has poor muscle tone and is too thin. There are degrees between emaciation and obese - she is too thin, and unlike most of the horses in this country she needs more condition.


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## Amymay (17 May 2011)

Bojangles said:



			In my eyes the word poor means you can see the end of the rib cage clearly see all the ribs,pelvis etc
		
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  this is called emaciation and is a body score of zero.




			God I think theres one at our yard then as she old showing ribs But very fit and healthy!!! Have loads to eat too.
		
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I think when you're more familiar with body scoring you would understand that seeing or not seeing ribs is just the half of it.

And if you were more familiar with this particular situation you'd not be so quick with smart arse replies.


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## Chestnuttymare (17 May 2011)

It has all been said really, but i was really shocked to see these pics and atually thought someone had resurrected the post from last year. I fail to see how anyone could not notice this sort of decline in their horses condition. I have a tb mare who is 23 and looks great and is ridden and fit. She isn't a good doer so it takes careful management to keep her right. I use the weigh tape weekly in the winter just to keep an eye on how she is, her rug is off daily to groom her so would notice any difference.

Can i ask if Lady is still being rugged at night. Mine is just to keep her from being chilled as i know she would drop weight rapidly if she was cold.
There are  some things are being said  that implies that the op didn't have the necessary funds to care for her properly. Someone has said how much Jade loves the horse, no one is doubting that but the horse is still in a state. 
She say's that next winter she would have ad lib hay which implies that last year she didn't. If her teeth are worn out and she is struggling to eat it then she will need haylege which is easier or a bucket of some short chop. 
At the new yard can she not be brought in at night?
I hope that op has no intentions of riding her in this condition, that would really be cruel.


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## touchstone (17 May 2011)

Sadly I feel that even if 'Dr Green' does put condition on Lady over the summer, then I am almost certain that we will be seeing a repeat of the weight loss in winter as we have for the last two.

I think that Lady should be retired completely, (how on earth she has tolerated a saddle over that protruding spine in the past I don't know tbh) fed plenty of food and if weight loss happens over winter in spite of that then the kindest thing would probably be to pts. 

There is also a difference between a horse that is thin but fit and healthy, and one that is looking very poor.  Yes we may be used to overweight horses, that doesn't mean we should accept seeing undernourished starved ones though.


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## Wagtail (17 May 2011)

Bojangles said:



			In my eyes the word poor means you can see the end of the rib cage clearly see all the ribs,pelvis etc she doesnt have yes some ribs showing she not tuck up in her belly etc. God I think theres one at our yard then as she old showing ribs But very fit and healthy!!! Have loads to eat too.
		
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You can clearly see her spine running down the top of her rump! It's not just an odd rib. Yes, some horses can still show their ribs when they are fat, but generally their bones will otherwise be covered. This horse's pelvis is clearly visible. She is of sight build and so it will never be as obvious as in an emaciated cob. But posting that you do not think this horse is in poor condition is detrimental.


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## ThePinkPony (17 May 2011)

Why did it take her so long to do so? who was feeding it then? (or not as it transpires) 

Why has the RSPCA not taken this seriously? why has everything taken so long for the horse?

Im amazed also that someone would post a pic of the horse looking like that, ive dreaded posting pic of pink just because she looks a bit rough at the moment?


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## Bojangles (17 May 2011)

I do use body condtion on mine as he is far from being poor!! Muscle takes time to build up so I won't expert it to happern over a short time.


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## ThePinkPony (17 May 2011)

Bojangles said:



			I do use body condtion on mine as he is far from being poor!! Muscle takes time to build up so I won't expert it to happern over a short time.
		
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It doesnt take two years to get a horse, even a twenty year old horse, back into condition.

would be interested to see a pic of bojangles' horse.


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## touchstone (17 May 2011)

Bojangles said:



			I do use body condtion on mine as he is far from being poor!! Muscle takes time to build up so I won't expert it to happern over a short time.
		
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You also need good quality feed to build muscle.


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## Bojangles (17 May 2011)

ThePinkPony said:



			It doesnt take two years to get a horse, even a twenty year old horse, back into condition.

would be interested to see a pic of bojangles' horse.
		
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There's some already on here. She's now increasing feeds etc and of coz it will take time. Hopefully it won't be too long before we see some up to date photos.


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## joeanne (17 May 2011)

ThePinkPony said:



			It doesnt take two years to get a horse, even a twenty year old horse, back into condition.
		
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As Carrott and Spud have proved so well!
The mare needs a) to be retired b) to see a vet to rule out underlying problems and c) to have an adequate diet worked out for her


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## touchstone (17 May 2011)

It will be next winter when photos are more relevant imo.


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## Bojangles (17 May 2011)

Hopefully Jade will understand the needing for feed thoughout the year so wont be seeing any of a repeat. Fingers crossd!!!


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## ThePinkPony (17 May 2011)

Im sorry again but i have just looked all the way back through jadeyyandladyy's previous threads and A. last year jade said she was only 17? and B. the pics then werent much better...

and im amazed that people keep reporting her but nothings been done. I cant help but think about the horse. she doesnt deserve this.

people keep saying jadine loves her, but im afraid letting an animal suffer isnt love at all.


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## lexiedhb (17 May 2011)

amymay said:



			So who was doing the 2 extra feeds and hay then I wonder

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My guess is no one.


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## Amymay (17 May 2011)

lexiedhb said:



			My guess is no one. 

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But she's had _something_....

So is it the other way around then? Friends fed, but no owner to do the remainder of feeds................


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## lexiedhb (17 May 2011)

amymay said:



			But she's had _something_....

So is it the other way around then? Friends fed, but no owner to do the remainder of feeds................
		
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That would be my best guess. Friend is up there anyway doing her own, so looks in on lady and feeds. It is hard for jade to get to yard, defo not twice a day, maaybe once, but not always, so hoss sometimes has second feed, sometimes not.


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## Amymay (17 May 2011)

lexiedhb said:



			That would be my best guess. Friend is up there anyway doing her own, so looks in on lady and feeds. It is hard for jade to get to yard, defo not twice a day, maaybe once, but not always, so hoss sometimes has second feed, sometimes not.
		
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Seems most likely.


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## BBH (17 May 2011)

Judging by the post in AAD it sounds like the whole family have a cavalier attitude to animals, get rid of one dog because its not calm enough and then get another puppy??? I mean really whats that about.


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## Amymay (17 May 2011)

BBH said:



			Judging by the post in AAD it sounds like the whole family have a cavalier attitude to animals, get rid of one dog because its not calm enough and then get another puppy??? I mean really whats that about.
		
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Jade didn't get rid of a young dog - her cousin did.  The dog in AAD is her brothers.  So you're not quite correct BBH.


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## V1NN (17 May 2011)

Hey Jade hun, hope your ok. I think you''l most likely see a huge improvement in your horsey over the next few months but like some others say start your winter feeding regime early and this will help her over the worse months when its very cold, bad grazing etc. Will she be stabled at night in winter? If not i'd consider giving her 3 hard feeds a day and ad lib haylage and keep her well rugged. What size rug is she? i have a 450gram turnout rug with detachable neck thats hardly been used but my youngster is growing out of it think by winter this yr it will be way to small its a fantastic rug. If your interested pm me your address and i'll send you it for your lovely Ladey. I know you love her to bits. x


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## BBH (17 May 2011)

amymay said:



			Jade didn't get rid of a young dog - her cousin did.  The dog in AAD is her brothers.  So you're not quite correct BBH.
		
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Thread says her mum got rid of buster for being boisterous  ? What young dog isn't.


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## BBH (17 May 2011)

V1NN said:



			Hey Jade hun, hope your ok. I think you''l most likely see a huge improvement in your horsey over the next few months but like some others say start your winter feeding regime early and this will help her over the worse months when its very cold, bad grazing etc. Will she be stabled at night in winter? If not i'd consider giving her 3 hard feeds a day and ad lib haylage and keep her well rugged. What size rug is she? i have a 450gram turnout rug with detachable neck thats hardly been used but my youngster is growing out of it think by winter this yr it will be way to small its a fantastic rug. If your interested pm me your address and i'll send you it for your lovely Ladey. I know you love her to bits. x
		
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Nobody who loves their horse lets it starve and get in that poor state.


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## Amymay (17 May 2011)

BBH said:



			Thread says her mum got rid of buster for being boisterous  ? What young dog isn't.
		
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No, her mum didn't want to home Buster from her cousin because he was too boisterous.....


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## BBH (17 May 2011)

amymay said:



			No, her mum didn't want to home Buster from her cousin because he was too boisterous.....
		
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Oh ok sorry.


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## Lady La La (17 May 2011)

amymay said:



			No, her mum didn't want to home Buster from her cousin because he was too boisterous.....
		
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Yet a puppy is fine 

There's nothing I can say re the management of this horse that hasn't already been said. It' going to cost money and effort to get your horse right Jade, and I hope for her sake you manage it. You've had some great advice and offers of help from people here, so here's to hoping you take it, and your mare starts improving. Moving yard certainly seems like a step in the right direction...


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## Dizzle (17 May 2011)

Having looked at the link to previous threads, the horse has actually improved. The pictures from last year where you were riding where IMO much more shocking.

The mare is still though very poor. 

I take it she's retried? She clearly isn't managing to injest enough calorie at the moment which can often happen with older horses, so feed her up, rug her well and don't make her burn excess calories.

I bought a horse that I was told was always a very poor doer and always had been.

This is him last summer, in moderate work, hard feed was a handful of readygrass and a handful of pony nuts:






The year before, diet consisted of haylege, build up mix, sugarbeet and grass:






It's amazing how different things effect different horses. What has the vet said about her condition?


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## V1NN (17 May 2011)

In all fairness to Jade i've had a bit of a look through her previous posts and her album of Lady which show pictures of her looking significantly better. I wonder if the horse could be older than you originally where told? especially as her teeth are worn right down you say? Did you have much experience of horses and horse ownership before you got Lady? If i could only have you at my yard i'd offer you some ongoing help with her but i'm in NE Scotland unfortunately. I seem to have a knack for getting weight on anything! lol. Perhaps Jade if you are really struggling to afford her you should perhaps consider getting a sharer to help with some of the expense of keeping a horse? I see in one of your previous threads you say Lady had a sore back you thought, was this ever investigated further by a vet or physio? Pain could also cause the horse to lose weight. I wish you and Lady all the best in getting weight on. Forgot to say that rug is 6ft 3.  x


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## Wagtail (17 May 2011)

Hopefully Jade will see that people do not mean to be hard on her and are only thinking of the horse. Any idiot can get a horse looking better going into summer. I just hope, Jade that you really can afford to give Lady what she needs over the winter. If not, you need to be really honest with yourself. Can you afford the hay or preferably haylage, that she will need? My good doers easily get through 16 kg of quality haylage a day in the winter. The poor doers need about 20kg. I know most guides say around 10kg but I have never seen a horse do well on that amount on poor grass. This will cost you around £30 per week. More, if prices go up again. You can add the cost of hard feed to that and you could be looking at £45 per week on feed alone.  You also need to avoid the other horses taking the feed intended for her which will be difficult if other liveries are not prepared to feed as much as you are (some will not need to but their horses will still tuck into your girl's haylage). It could be a real problem if you end up having to fork out even more money to ensure Lady gets what she needs. If I were you, I'd be talking to the other liveries right now, anddetermining whether any of them need to feed ad lib too. You then need to make arrangements to separate the horses into those that want ad lib hay, and those that don't. Too late doing it when winter comes.


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## Amymay (17 May 2011)

Some brilliant suggestions by wagtail.


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## Ladylina83 (17 May 2011)

amymay said:



			Some brilliant suggestions by wagtail.
		
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Agreed good solid advice - OP seems to have vanished however, I do hope she reads it though!


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## JadeyyAndLadyy (17 May 2011)

Im going to try and answer as much as i can on this post. Im not very good at explaining, but ill try my best.

Field sharers and feeding-At the old field, me and my friends would all share the duties. This included the feeding. Friends would feed mornings, i would feed evenings. Friends would _Sometimes_ go down at lunchtime and feed, but this was not very often. (hence why i said she was fed 2-3 times a day). When i noticed Lady was losing weight, and found out my friends werent doing morning or lunchtime feeds, i immediately found somewhere else to keep Lady but couldnt move her until last week. With Lady being a poor doer, little grass and one meal caused her to lose weight quickly. While the move was being organised, i would spend an extra 2 hours taking lady out in-hand to get longer grass in another field.

Distance-Someone mentioned the field was 45mins walk away. No, it was 40mins drive away. I managed to get a field just down the road from my house with lovely grazing.

Stabling-Lady cannot be stabled. Ive tried before, but she gets extremely stressed and tries to get out. I dont want her to lose weight from being stressed 

Vets-I am getting the vet out to see lady and also to do her teeth. I did get the dentist out but he was unable to do her teeth without sedation. Someone asked if her teeth were worn right down. No, theyre not, her front teeth have worn a little (enough for a gap between the contact of the top and bottom teeth) But with longer grass, Lady is now able to get the goodness she need.

Riding-No, i am not going to be riding her until she has improved dramatically. I dont want to be burning off any valuable calories. She is also getting rugged in evenings so she can stay warmer.

Sorry if ive missed anything, but i would like to say thank you for all the advice and kind offers. Everything has been taken on board. I might update in a month or so, with Lady looking well. I will  not let her get in this state again, she is in a better place with experienced people to guide me and help me along the way. (not the people regarding 24/7 muzzling. This is none of my business, but the horse is fed and given supplements and allowed to graze for about 30mins after being ridden) Please can we let this thread die down now, im sorry for any upset ive caused, i know youre only worried about my horse and trying to help, Ive moved Lady in order to get her better and KEEP her better. Everything is getting better now and they can only continue to improve.


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## Brandy (17 May 2011)

Wagtail said:



			I have to agree with Amymay. There is never an excuse for a horse to get this poor. There is no such thing as wintering badly if a horse is well fed and rugged. Most the horses I have cared for and owned have been TBs. Some have been in their late twenties. All of them come through winter with a good covering over their ribs and rump. Yes, it costs me a fortune. On average £21 per week per horse in haylage alone. Some eat around £30 of the stuff. If she drops weight this winter despite ad lib hay, then you could try some Allen and Page Fast Fibre. It is excellent.
		
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Unfortunately I would say that there is such a thing as wintering badly. My own old horse has wintered reasonably badly, coming through most of the winter fine, then dropping condition in march/april. A difficult time as the grass is coming through and he will start to eat less of the feed and haylage  I give him. My other two are good doers which makes life difficult. Old horse is on his own in small paddock with stable overnight, and gets ad lib haylage and a large feed overnight with balancer. He has two large haynets of haylage and there is always plenty left. During the day he goes out withthe fatties and I put hay out. He is not really interested in the hay, having just filled his boots of brekkie and haylage overnight. 

So the fatties eat it. I tried keeping him on his own during the day with haylage, and he paced up and down, trod the haylage into the ground, and lost weight.

Yes indeed he costs me a fortune and more so as I put out hay just in case he wants it, and more, which the fatties fill up on! He has been well rugged and very well fed all winter, but nothing will stop age and he is now 30. He also has a hairy belly (as in Jades first pic) and his topline is horrendous - he was a polo pony and topline had always been an issue even at 18 when I got him. So having lost weight, he now looks what most of you would consider pretty dreadful. But look from the topline down, and its a different story - I fear lady suffers wih the same thing, no top line, no fitness or muscle - she will never look brillaint and is probably too old to develop it now. 

That said, she shoud lstill be fed appropriately.


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## touchstone (17 May 2011)

Hello Jade, I'm pleased that you've responded to everyone's concerns in a mature fashion and that you understand that everyone is only wanting what is best for Lady.

A couple of concerns I have though is that if bucket feeds were missed at the previous home there should have been ample hay/haylage available and there wasn't despite the advice given previously.

As for riding Lady when she has improved, I'd really be questioning whether this is a good idea after seeing previous videos of her when she was lame and misbehaving on a hack, I really think her ridden days are over and suspect she is older than you believe. 

Remember that the grass won't last forever and you'll need alternative forage, I really hope that she does improve BUT it will take time effort and money to keep Lady healthy, and if she is much older or has underlying issues this might be even more difficult and you may still need to make difficult decisions regarding Lady's future if this is the case.   I hope you can post pictures next winter of her looking really well. Do keep in touch though, there is a wealth of experience on here that it would be a shame to miss out on.


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## Amymay (17 May 2011)

Good girl jadey. Wishing you success at your new yard.


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## Amymay (17 May 2011)

Will you have to buy hay in or does the new place supply it??


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## JadeyyAndLadyy (17 May 2011)

The farmer supplies hay for £2.50 a bale 

And regarding her age (which i forgot to explain about) in a previous post i said she was 17, because the dealers i got her from told me she was younger than she really is. I rang up farmkey who had her freezemarked when she was one year old, we calculated her age and she is now 20 years old


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## misst (17 May 2011)

Well done Jade I hope she continues to repay your efforts to keep her well
I am dead envious of your hay prices. It is more than twice that (I am in Surrey) round here. If your prices go up you may find it cheaper to feed good haylage as I found this worked out more ecconomical.
I think you are being quite brave as you get a lot of flack (including some from me in the past) and you keep coming back and trying again. Good luck and looking forward to your new pics.x


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## sonjafoers (17 May 2011)

I didn't post previously as I would have given you a bit of a hard time as have the majority of posts on here. I have my opinions on the condition of Lady  but I would have only been reiterating what a lot of people had already said.

However your recent post was very mature and sensible considering your age and the emotive situation you are in. You certainly stirred up a hornets nest but you appear to be aware of your mistakes and will be doing everything you can for the welfare of your horse.

For that you deserve some praise so well done and good luck with her


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## Amymay (17 May 2011)

Wow bargin price for the hay!


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## hudsonw (17 May 2011)

Hate to say it but I've seen people reported to welfare organisations with horses in allot better condition than your mare...just be careful posting pictures of such a poor animal aren't used against you.
Also the fact that this isn't the first time you have shown your horse in such a bad condition rings alarm bells to many people on this site.

Contact someone like Spillers or Dengie. They offer free feed advice and at least you will be feeding the correct feed in the correct qtys. You may have to mash her food if her teeth are bad?
Get some really good rugs to help your mare keep heat so she isn't using her body fat to keep warm...i would even be using one this time of year to keep the wind, rain and early morning chill off her...however check under her rug everyday.
Stop riding your mare until she is is better condition with muscle...at least you won't just be riding a bag of bones.

If you saw this mare at an auction you would hope that she would find and experienced home or the meat man to take pity on her...it's quite shocking to find out that someone does own her and that the OP saying that she loves her is enough to keep her mare fit and happy!!!


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## EAST KENT (17 May 2011)

No excuses,never ever found a leopard that changed it`s spots. That old mare needs  removing before mid august to either a proper caring home or PTS. Next winter will be her last IMO,and at her relatively youthful age that is shameful.


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## Hacked_Off (17 May 2011)

alligator40 said:



			How long has she been retired?

i'd want a bit more on her if she were mine, but she looks OK for a retired horse TBH.
		
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I don't think she's retired


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## lexiedhb (17 May 2011)

EAST KENT said:



			No excuses,never ever found a leopard that changed it`s spots. That old mare needs  removing before mid august to either a proper caring home or PTS. Next winter will be her last IMO,and at her relatively youthful age that is shameful.
		
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Oh give the girl a break- she has moved yards to try and help this horse. Hopefully with more experienced and trust worthy people around her Lady will be just fine.


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## TheEquineOak (17 May 2011)

alligator40 said:



			really?



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Noooope. Still being ridden

Jade - she still needs hard feed and ad lib hay/haylage.  Grass will put a bit of weight on but she needs condition


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## Hacked_Off (17 May 2011)

alligator40 said:



			really?



how old is it then?
		
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I'm not sure. The OP says she's 20 but other people think she's older.


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## lexiedhb (17 May 2011)

Rachiie said:



			I'm not sure. The OP says she's 20 but other people think she's older.
		
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She just said in her last post that A) she was not currently riding her (no idea if that means she will be ridden in the future and b) that farmkey freeze branded her at 12 months, which makes her 20 (NOT 17 as she was told by the dealer she got her off)


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## HollyWoozle (17 May 2011)

To be honest, I do feel that people have overreacted. I wouldn't report Lady if I saw her in that condition and yes, she does look poor, but no, she does not look emaciated (in my opinion). I'm sure I've just thrown myself to the dogs by saying that but it's really how I feel. I think that her swayed back and elderly appearance make it appear worse but if I saw Lady and knew nothing about her, I would think "there is an ageing horse who would benefit from more condition". I wouldn't think "that horse is emaciated and should be removed from the owner".

I do think that Lady has improved from earlier photos and I think and hope that Jade will continue to work at improving Lady's condition.

ETA: I'm really genuinely stunned that some people consider Lady to be emaciated!


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## EAST KENT (18 May 2011)

If she is genuinely only 20 then I don`t class that as extremely old,lots of hunters ,fed right,are doing two days a fortnight at that age. She looks more like 35 to me,now that is either truly her age..or she is not being cared for properly.This has been going on for far too long,very aged horses are expensive to keep,perhaps there lies the problem.After two years or more I do not see things improving for good for this mare,so as I said ,remove it to a better place.Some people never learn.


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## hunting mad (18 May 2011)

Im not convinced the mare is only 20......there are so many ways in which to fiddle ages,passports etc.
Maybe,its time to call it a day with the mare,or at least give her the summer


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## Amymay (18 May 2011)

hunting mad said:



			Maybe,its time to call it a day with the mare,or at least give her the summer
		
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Why? The mare seems to have no underlying health problems, and just needs proper management.

Even I wouldn't condone putting her down, and I've been pretty hard on the OP.


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## hunting mad (18 May 2011)

amymay said:



			Why? The mare seems to have no underlying health problems, and just needs proper management.

Even I wouldn't condone putting her down, and I've been pretty hard on the OP.
		
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If she isnt going to be looked after,and i cant think anyone would take her on.
Its better she doesnt suffer another winter.Sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind.


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## Wagtail (18 May 2011)

I am stunned by how many people on this forum seem to suggest PTS as the answer to all problems. They do this without even meeting the horse in the flesh! Unbelievable. Obviously, if someone is describing a horse that is in constant pain and not getting better etc, it may well be the answer, but this mare has a shiny coat and all that is wrong with her is that she has not had enough food. Hopefully the OP has learned her lesson and will take proper care of her in future.


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## touchstone (18 May 2011)

The thing is that IF this horse is only 20 I think she probably does have underlying issues along with a lack of feed.  Certainly videos I've seen in the past showed a very uncomfortable/lame horse and I'm sure Jade has said she has arthritis too.  Her conformation doesn't help, and I think her stance with her hindleg pulled forwards in lots of pics denotes discomfort.

I think the fairest thing if feed doesn't help next winter would be to consider pts to be honest,  it looks to me like this horse needs much more care than she's been getting and possibly pain relief too for her arthritis, which of course is more expense for Jade.


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## Amymay (18 May 2011)

hunting mad said:



			If she isnt going to be looked after,and i cant think anyone would take her on.
Its better she doesnt suffer another winter.Sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind.
		
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Oh in essence I agree with you.  And if ther standard of care is not substantially improved, then the OP may well be forced down that road.  And of course ultimately it all depends on the OP's ability to commit, and ensure she has the funds available to feed the horse properly through the winter.

Time will tell I guess.


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## hunting mad (18 May 2011)

Wagtail said:



			I am stunned by how many people on this forum seem to suggest PTS as the answer to all problems. They do this without even meeting the horse in the flesh! Unbelievable. Obviously, if someone is describing a horse that is in constant pain and not getting better etc, it may well be the answer, but this mare has a shiny coat and all that is wrong with her is that she has not had enough food. Hopefully the OP has learned her lesson and will take proper care of her in future.
		
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I do agree with you.It is hard without seeing the animal in the flesh.
I think there are  some under lying issues.The op has said she bucks etc in ridden work,so i think she is in pain....but yes agree it is hard to judge without seeing the animal.Has the horse actually seen a vet......we dont know,as we can all lie behind a screen.I would much rather see a dead animal,than a suffering animal.........if im a heartless c** ,then so be it!


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## joeanne (18 May 2011)

The biggest problem here is that this is not the 1st time Lady has looked poor. 
Jade has taken advice previously from her yard friends which was totally wrong for the mare in question.....which would indicate a lack of BASIC equine knowledge with regards to feeding/rugging/general day to day care.
Then add to that Lady is not a spring chicken. So even more detailed care is needed to keep her looking good.
Last year there were delays with vets/dentists for various reasons.
I'll stand by what I said, I think the mare ought to be retired full stop and then her management given a long hard look at. 
I've gotten to the point I feel so bad for the little mare I would make space here for her. And she would NOT look like that for long!
I just cant see a GOOD reason for Lady looking like that at 20 yrs old....I really cant.


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## Wagtail (18 May 2011)

I have looked through old posts and there are some pics of this mare looking in perfect condition (weight wise) in the summer. If she CAN look like that then there is nothing wrong with her that would make her drop so much condition in the winter other than under feeding. Yes, she may be older than 20 and have other problems such as arthritis, but the OP was posting about her weight. There is obviously nothing wrong with the mare in this respect other than not getting enough food.

I maintain that there is no such thing as wintering badly. If a horse can get condition on with grass, it can get condition on with enough good quality haylage or hay, so long as it is being adequately rugged. If a horse suddenly drops weight in the winter despite genuinely adequate feeding, then yes, there is something else wrong. This mare, however was not getting anywere near the right amount of feed. The OP had been reported over and over to the RSPCA by other horse owners. People do not do this for fun. I really do hope she is true to her word and looks after this poor mare in the winter coming. I still think there will be problems due to the other liveries not wanting to feed the amount that lady needs and their horses stealing her rashions. Looking at it from their perspective, why would they want to feed their normal/good doers the amount of extra hay that Lady will need? I think that this is a problem that the OP has not addressed.


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## hunting mad (18 May 2011)

We can all go over,time and time again,about the mares basic needs not being met,but is there actually anything that is going to put a stop to all this and help the mare at all....I dont think now is an issue,its the winter that will be apon us all too quickly.


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## joeanne (18 May 2011)

Wagtail, what gets me is that Jade had a very kind offer from a very experienced forum member who is down the road. She offered to help Jade look at her overall management, and help her change what needed changing......and Jade refused her help!


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## Wagtail (18 May 2011)

Brandy said:



			Unfortunately I would say that there is such a thing as wintering badly. My own old horse has wintered reasonably badly, coming through most of the winter fine, then dropping condition in march/april. A difficult time as the grass is coming through and he will start to eat less of the feed and haylage  I give him. My other two are good doers which makes life difficult. Old horse is on his own in small paddock with stable overnight, and gets ad lib haylage and a large feed overnight with balancer. He has two large haynets of haylage and there is always plenty left. During the day he goes out withthe fatties and I put hay out. He is not really interested in the hay, having just filled his boots of brekkie and haylage overnight. 

So the fatties eat it. I tried keeping him on his own during the day with haylage, and he paced up and down, trod the haylage into the ground, and lost weight.

Yes indeed he costs me a fortune and more so as I put out hay just in case he wants it, and more, which the fatties fill up on! He has been well rugged and very well fed all winter, but nothing will stop age and he is now 30. He also has a hairy belly (as in Jades first pic) and his topline is horrendous - he was a polo pony and topline had always been an issue even at 18 when I got him. So having lost weight, he now looks what most of you would consider pretty dreadful. But look from the topline down, and its a different story - I fear lady suffers wih the same thing, no top line, no fitness or muscle - she will never look brillaint and is probably too old to develop it now. 

That said, she shoud lstill be fed appropriately.
		
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What you have described is not 'wintering badly'. There is obviously some underlying problem that just happened to manifest itself during the winter. You obviously fed your horse adequately. 

Any horse that can maintain weight in the summer on good grass can maintain weight in the winter with adequate feeding. I actually have trouble keeping horses trim during the winter!


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## Wagtail (18 May 2011)

joeanne said:



			Wagtail, what gets me is that Jade had a very kind offer from a very experienced forum member who is down the road. She offered to help Jade look at her overall management, and help her change what needed changing......and Jade refused her help!
		
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That does seem very odd!


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## Amymay (18 May 2011)

joeanne said:



			Wagtail, what gets me is that Jade had a very kind offer from a very experienced forum member who is down the road. She offered to help Jade look at her overall management, and help her change what needed changing......and Jade refused her help!
		
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Indeed.  It was such a shame she didn't take up her offer 

I could never quite get my head around that one, as she would be a fabulous mentor to have


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## SplashofSoy (18 May 2011)

If the OP had posted pics of the horse saying she had just rescued it from the sales in that condition we would have all been up in arms about the previous owner so i dont think people have overreacted to the post.

I have a horse which is terrible to keep weight on and can drop so much weight in a week he can go from looking in good condition to looking pretty awful.  Even had the vet out to investigate in case there was an underlying issue which there wasnt, he is just one of these horses who will never be fat! 

Having said that he has never been in the state as shown in the pics because he needs watching like a hawk, never without good grass or piles of hay/haylage and hard feed.  

I hope, OP, you can get her sorted as at 20 and with no underlying health problems your horse should be in much better condition.  At 20 there are many horses hunting twice a week or competing every weekend.


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## Sanolly (18 May 2011)

To be fair on Jade her parents may have vetoed her meeting up with a 'stranger' off the internet, she is only young remember.


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## hunting mad (18 May 2011)

amymay said:



			Indeed.  It was such a shame she didn't take up her offer 

I could never quite get my head around that one, as she would be a fabulous mentor to have 

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And you never,ever stop learning about horses


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## Amymay (18 May 2011)

hunting mad said:



			And you never,ever stop learning about horses
		
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God no, that's what's such fun about the whole thing


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## joeanne (18 May 2011)

Sanolly said:



			To be fair on Jade her parents may have vetoed her meeting up with a 'stranger' off the internet, she is only young remember.
		
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Yes fair point, but her parents could have met with the forum member alongside Jade. Minds put to rest, and Jade would have had a fantastic mentor to help her sort Lady's care.

Being a "younger" person should not be reason for a horse not getting adequate care.
In fact if my daughters pony ever looked like that I'd quite frankly string her up...and she is only 10!!!


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## ThePinkPony (18 May 2011)

I would leap at the chance to have someone like that offering advice.

I cant understand it, and yes her parents may have vetoed it but surely they would have had the sense to see there is a problem with the horse and at least meet the member?


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## binkymerlin (18 May 2011)

ok i didnt realise this was an existing problem until someone put up some other threads with lady in. i thought she was a rescue case :-x hopefully op will keep posting on here and showing us how lady is getting on. op is very mature to accept advice and i just *hope* she can prove us wrong, and show us lady can get thru another winter. i will look forward to seeing lady in the future. keep us posted about her teeth, i have a feeling they are BAD! if there is nothing wrong with her bodily i see no reason for her to have another 10yrs or so. good luck with her. wish you both all the best.


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## Sanolly (18 May 2011)

joeanne said:



			.

Being a "younger" person should not be reason for a horse not getting adequate care.
In fact if my daughters pony ever looked like that I'd quite frankly string her up...and she is only 10!!!
		
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Definitely agree, age is no excuse.


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## hunting mad (18 May 2011)

amymay said:



			God no, that's what's such fun about the whole thing 

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Certainly makes it interesting and mind boggling at times!!!
Times have changed since i was brought up riding and looking after horses,unfortunatly sometimes for the worst


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## feisty_filly (18 May 2011)

iv not followed ladys story at all so im sorry if i miss something out.
i just wanted to say that its great that you have got a new field with lots of grass BUT what happens when winter comes and the grass becomes poor again?
i understand that your friends were supposed to be feeding her and wernt but it takes a while for a horse to lose that much condition and if you were feeding every night YOU should have seen the signs befor it got that bad. as another poster has suggested, why not try haylige (sp?) this winter? 
i realy hope you have a better winter this year than last.


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## Persephone (18 May 2011)

You have had a lot of good advice on here Jadey, you know by now who talks sense 

I do agree very much about about weigh taping weekly, it can be hard to see what is in front of your eyes when you see it every day, seeing it in black and white gives you a better idea.

I would also join http://www.manage-my-horse.com which is free and excellent for record keeping

x


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## lexiedhb (18 May 2011)

ThePinkPony said:



			I would leap at the chance to have someone like that offering advice.

I cant understand it, and yes her parents may have vetoed it but surely they would have had the sense to see there is a problem with the horse and at least meet the member?
		
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Not if they are totally non horsey as my mother always was- she would not have a clue about a horses weight- and would have been wary of meeting a total stranger.....


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## PonyIAmNotFood (18 May 2011)

lexiedhb said:



			Not if they are totally non horsey as my mother always was- she would not have a clue about a horses weight- and would have been wary of meeting a total stranger.....
		
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My mum who hates and knows nothing about animals would know that ribs and hips sticking out isn't right, you don't need to know anything to know lady isn't looking good.


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## lexiedhb (18 May 2011)

Well good for your mum- not everyone is the same. If lady was rugged her mother may not have seen her ribs. My mother would not have seen my horse for MONTHS on end when i was young.
All I was saying was perhaps the mother was not aware


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## PonyIAmNotFood (18 May 2011)

Would you have let your horse get this thin every year though despite good advice, with or without your mum breathing down your neck? And I only meant that any fool could see the horse was underweight, not that Jades mum has seen the horse. At Jades age I can understand her mum thinking she could leave the horse in her care and not have to worry about supervision.


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## Buzzby84 (18 May 2011)

The fact that Jade and her parents left it so long and let Lady get in that state goes to show that either her or her parents don't care.


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## joeanne (18 May 2011)

Sorry, but I just cannot see where you are coming from lexiehb.
When you buy an animal, be it a budgie, a horse or even a flipping goldfish, you have a duty of care towards it. If you are a child, then your parents have that responsibility.
Shame on the mother if she was unaware, but shame on Jade for letting it get that far before doing something about it!
Lady did not start looking like that overnight....it took a good while to get like that, and Jade's BASIC equine skills are obviously not up to par given this is the SECOND time she has posted pictures of Lady looking like that in 18 months!
Frankly I wonder if she a) has the time and b) the money needed to take care of any horse, never mind one that is obviously so high maintenence!


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## feisty_filly (18 May 2011)

PonyIAmNotFood said:



			Would you have let your horse get this thin every year though despite good advice, with or without your mum breathing down your neck? And I only meant that any fool could see the horse was underweight, not that Jades mum has seen the horse. At Jades age I can understand her mum thinking she could leave the horse in her care and not have to worry about supervision.
		
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agree with this. im 21 and have had horses since i was 13. my mother never got involved with my horses. i also had to pay for every thing myself out of my paper round / cleaning job money. i never let my horse get that thin, its common sence and age is no excuse.


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## Wagtail (18 May 2011)

I may be wrong, but Jade did mention that she had let her chill over winter. I expect that her rugs were rarely, if ever removed and therefore Jade had no idea what she was like underneath. That is the only way to explain how she didn't notice until two weeks before moving her. No excuse at all.

A friend of mine had a horse on full livery whilst she(the owner) had an operation. She visited the horse daily to give her a fuss and some treats. However it was 6 weeks before she was fit enough to remove her rugs and groom her. What she then saw shocked herto the core. The horse was emaciated! She had been paying full livery for her horse to be starved! So not removing rugs can hide a multitude of sins.


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## lexiedhb (18 May 2011)

joeanne said:



			Sorry, but I just cannot see where you are coming from lexiehb.
When you buy an animal, be it a budgie, a horse or even a flipping goldfish, you have a duty of care towards it. If you are a child, then your parents have that responsibility.
Shame on the mother if she was unaware, but shame on Jade for letting it get that far before doing something about it!
Lady did not start looking like that overnight....it took a good while to get like that, and Jade's BASIC equine skills are obviously not up to par given this is the SECOND time she has posted pictures of Lady looking like that in 18 months!
Frankly I wonder if she a) has the time and b) the money needed to take care of any horse, never mind one that is obviously so high maintenence!
		
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............and i can not see yours. It was MY hobby, my mother knew naff all about horses, so would have been as useful as a chocolate teapot, yes she made sure i had lessons/ went to pony club camp and was around horsey folk- but unless I or someone else told her she would not have been aware of any problems relating to said horse- 

jade is not a "kid" of 10 but 17.

Jade has stated she is trying to do right by this mare- as moved somewhere where people on site CAN help her- so hopefully she will plan this winter far more carefully. Although unless this mare is the utmost picture of health i doubt she will repost on here.


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## joeanne (18 May 2011)

You cant see my point....
Head
Wall
THUNK.....
You HONESTLY think there is ANY excuse for that poor mare looking like a sack of s**t???? 
She would not look out of place in a before pic in one of those welfare ads.....
Christ on a bike....
So Jade's incapacity to adequately care for her horse, and her mothers incapacity to supervise is ok because Jade is "trying"?
Where in gods name does that help Lady?
I'm going to go and nail my hand to a table.....its got to hurt less than this.......


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## Queenbee (18 May 2011)

Wagtail said:



			I may be wrong, but Jade did mention that she had let her chill over winter. I expect that her rugs were rarely, if ever removed and therefore Jade had no idea what she was like underneath. That is the only way to explain how she didn't notice until two weeks before moving her. No excuse at all.

A friend of mine had a horse on full livery whilst she(the owner) had an operation. She visited the horse daily to give her a fuss and some treats. However it was 6 weeks before she was fit enough to remove her rugs and groom her. What she then saw shocked herto the core. The horse was emaciated! She had been paying full livery for her horse to be starved! So not removing rugs can hide a multitude of sins.
		
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Unfortunatley that just shows jades complete ignorance and disregard for the horses wellbeing, with a history of dramatic weight loss within the last 2 years, a history of being a 'poor doer' the winter. She SHOULD have been checking under that rug constantly, not just assuming that she was getting fed and keeping the weight on.  Even if the mare was getting her 3 allotted meals a day (which I know she wasn't) there was still the possibility that this could not have been enough and that the mare would lose weight.  Ergo:

A horse chilling in the field for the winter with a history of looking like a toast rack in the winter, should be watched like a hawk, that includes actually getting off one's a r s e and taking a rug off to check.  Pretty blo ody basic common sense there, which this young lady is obviously lacking in.

Jade you have some great advice here from others so take it:

Hopefully your change of yards will help but in addition I would say be responsible for your own horse, you give it the feeds and you check under its rug that way you know it is being done


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## Dizzle (18 May 2011)

This thread is so depressing. 

I do think the horse has improved slightly but in two years I&#8217;d have hoped for a bit more of an improvement so honestly thinking a vet should be looking at this horse rather than us giving the OP the same advise over and over again.

Novice owner, dodgy dealer and it&#8217;s the horse that&#8217;s getting the raw deal by the looks of it.


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## millreef (18 May 2011)

It appears to me that there have been a great many excuses for the state of the pony and none of them appear to be JadeyyAndLadyy's.  You don't need the posters to tell you what is wrong with this pony - you need to reflect and face it yourself.  Your immaturity is evident in your avoidance to accept your mistakes.


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## lexiedhb (18 May 2011)

joeanne said:



			You cant see my point....
Head
Wall
THUNK.....
You HONESTLY think there is ANY excuse for that poor mare looking like a sack of s**t???? 
She would not look out of place in a before pic in one of those welfare ads.....
Christ on a bike....
So Jade's incapacity to adequately care for her horse, and her mothers incapacity to supervise is ok because Jade is "trying"?
Where in gods name does that help Lady?
I'm going to go and nail my hand to a table.....its got to hurt less than this.......
		
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if it stops you typing more of this drivel then all for the good! 

That was not the POINT- I am not saying the state of the hoss is acceptable- although for her age etc i have seen many worse, despite all the food they could eat, rugs, vet care etc.

MY point was with regards to her mother not knowing about the situation, as mine would not have done.


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## Amymay (18 May 2011)

Lexi - to be fair Joeanne rarely types drivel 

And she does actually make a very salient point.

If a child has a pet, it is incumbent upon the parent to ensure that that pet is well looked after - regardless of what type of animal it is.  The nature of the hobby is no excuse not to.

Come on, you know that..........

It's not a direct criticsm of your parent, just a very valid point.


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## lexiedhb (18 May 2011)

Right so i give an opinion which is MY experience, as in, it happened to me, and it would seem that of others, and this opinion has to be wrong..... okedokey. I have never said it was the perfect scenario.



Where is this perfect world that you all live in?


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## Amymay (18 May 2011)

lexiedhb said:



			Right so i give an opinion which is MY experience, as in, it happened to me, and it would seem that of others, and this opinion has to be wrong..... okedokey. I have never said it was the perfect scenario.



Where is this perfect world that you all live in? 

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We _can_ have differing opinions - and yes, _sometimes_ one of us are wrong......


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## hunting mad (18 May 2011)

I think everyones opinion is valid on this thread.....surely the more ideas the better chance of helping the mare?


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## bensababy (18 May 2011)

lexiedhb said:



			............and i can not see yours. It was MY hobby, my mother knew naff all about horses, so would have been as useful as a chocolate teapot, yes she made sure i had lessons/ went to pony club camp and was around horsey folk- but unless I or someone else told her she would not have been aware of any problems relating to said horse- 

jade is not a "kid" of 10 but 17.

Jade has stated she is trying to do right by this mare- as moved somewhere where people on site CAN help her- so hopefully she will plan this winter far more carefully. Although unless this mare is the utmost picture of health i doubt she will repost on here.
		
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I grew up in a similar way - mum knew nothing about horses (i was aged 13 with first pony), she thought it was ok to feed him Mars Bars and wouldnt know the difference between what was "normal" for a horses, even to this day (cushings and Lammi) she still wants to feed the Mars Bars and Chocolate Digestives. I count my blessings i surrounded myself with great horse people that passed all their experiences and knowledge onto me.

This is exactly what Jadey- ok Ladey more needs.. she has clearly lacked any guidance on basic horse management, would be interesting to see if the mare improves now she has moved yards.. fingers crossed and i hope she takes up the advice and support offered in here for the mares sake.


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## missfitz50 (18 May 2011)

Thus far I have refrained from commenting on this thread, I don't really have anything to add which hasn't already been said but I have read through Jade's previous posts and seen the pictures.  If this had been Jade's first winter at trying to manage an elderly horse then perhaps I could have been more sympathetic but for it to happen a second time, come on!!

Jade has been offered excellent advice by others on the forum of which it seems, very little has been taken.  There always seems to be an excuse. . I worm counted her on Friday  the vets coming out next week, . my friend was supposed to be feeding her. I had a 28 year old TBx mare with a heart murmur who never looked like this, even after the hardest of winters.  My mum's older horse is 35, has barely a tooth in her head and is arthritic and we have always managed to keep weight on her too.

I dont know Jade, she obviously has good intentions but good intentions wont put weight and condition on that mare.  This isnt some romanticised childrens book where the kids keep ponies out in  fields and still manage to win Hickstead at the weekend, the reality, as we all know, is blooming hard work.

As for Jades mum not being horsey, that one doesnt really wash either.  One of the conditions of owning the horse should have been that she was kept at a yard with knowledgeable people not just dumped in a mates field, fingers crossed, hope for the best. Surely, there is a certain responsibility there for her parents to ensure that the horse is looked after properly, whether they know what they're doing or they involve people who do. 

As we all know, owning horses is always a learning curve and despite having owned my own for 30 years, I still listen to the advice others have to offer.  Maybe its time that Jade really began to take on board what people are trying to tell her, without the excuses.


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## brown tack (18 May 2011)

I'm sorry but your horse shouldn't of got in that state FACT!

You say you were visiting once a day, and a friend in morning. Even if the friend didn't come to feed her, it's your horse. Do it your self!!!

Ok you can't drive, then why put your horse in field 40 mins from your house?

Did you not remove her rugs all winter?

So she's 20 with no underlining medical conditions, she really shouldn't of got so bad. And it falls down on you. Your the owner, the horse wasn't on loan, you were still visiting her daily

Shame on you


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## Queenbee (18 May 2011)

hunting mad said:



			I think everyones opinion is valid on this thread.....surely the more ideas the better chance of helping the mare?
		
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yes, but only if the sane and sensible advice is acted upon!  

Lets face it, not all horses keep weight on well, some are poor doers in the winter etc, BUT a lot of advice was given last time around, and it was good helpful and knowledgable, it appears that advice is taken and implemented by OP but only implemented half heartedly.

Having had this happen to her mare before there is no excuse for not watching her weight like a hawk this winter, there should be no instance of 'I believed she was being fed' only 'I knew she was recieving 3 good meals a day because I was giving her them!!!!'

To let this happen to the mare a second time is just not on (and those are not my first word choices!)

So many questions like: Why didn't OP move her nearer sooner to make winter management easier?  Why wasn't OP removing the rug?

OP honestly, I was full of sympathy for you last time and believed you were trying your best to rectify the situation and learn from your mistakes, now I am full of sympathy for your horse and appauled at you for passing the blame to others and not learning from your past mistakes, this should NEVER have happened this time!


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## Amymay (18 May 2011)

Mucky Shavings said:



			I'm sorry but your horse shouldn't of got in that state FACT!

You say you were visiting once a day, and a friend in morning. Even if the friend didn't come to feed her, it's your horse. Do it your self!!!

Ok you can't drive, then why put your horse in field 40 mins from your house?
		
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If you have bothered to read the thread, rather than jumping on the general bandwagon, you will see that it's aim was to advise people that the horse has been moved to the OP's village - and so is located a mere walk away from here house.

The rest has been covered.


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## spottybotty (18 May 2011)

From the OPs profile
Date of Birth April 2, 1992 (19)

So is she 17 or 19???But  Irrespective of age of OP ,Lady should still not have been allowed to get in this state AGAIN.


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## lexiedhb (18 May 2011)

Well if she is 19- an adult- then the responsibility NOW is her own entirely.


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## BBH (18 May 2011)

joeanne said:



			You cant see my point....
Head
Wall
THUNK.....
You HONESTLY think there is ANY excuse for that poor mare looking like a sack of s**t???? 
She would not look out of place in a before pic in one of those welfare ads.....
Christ on a bike....
So Jade's incapacity to adequately care for her horse, and her mothers incapacity to supervise is ok because Jade is "trying"?
Where in gods name does that help Lady?
I'm going to go and nail my hand to a table.....its got to hurt less than this.......
		
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I totally sympathise, 
Quite rightly you are saying that if a parent allows her teenage daughter to take on the responsibility of a horse they should oversee its welfare. Lexiedhb says her mum wouldn't have known / recognise when a horse is undernourished.

I'm in your court so to speak. Someone would either have to be very thick not to see ribs and bones and not even question why the animal is thin or they never see the animal to know which Is equally irresponsible.


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## EAST KENT (18 May 2011)

It needs removing into better care by mid August,come winter she will go into starvation mode again,we all can see that;get it removed for pity`s sake.


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## hunting mad (18 May 2011)

EAST KENT said:



			It needs removing into better care by mid August,come winter she will go into starvation mode again,we all can see that;get it removed for pity`s sake.
		
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I cant see anyone would take the mare on,and rescue centres are at bursting points.........i see only one option to prevent this happeneing again


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## Damnation (18 May 2011)

I am 19, have non horsey parents and I bought a poor doer.
This is what she looked like at the end of winter..





FAT!!! 

While part of me thinks there is no excuse for a horse to get so thin, I also understand how hard it is to get non horsey parents to listen to you when your horse needs something!
I have read what you have to say Jade, and I hope you take the advice on board. You do have pics of that mare looking fab, hopefully this winter, armed with more knowledge from this thread you will be able to keep ontop of her weight.
Good luck, I look forward to updates of the mare looking better in a few weeks!
D


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## Puppy (18 May 2011)

RuthnMeg said:



			Oh, for christs sake! Some people are being unnecessarily harsh. Lady looks fine, and far from 'poor' in reality. So, we can see her ribs, she is short of muscles/lack of fitness and her coat hasn't come through properly in the first pic, but thats not nearing deaths door! .......
 Jade, you are doing a fab job and Lady IS looking well.
		
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*head explodes* 

If that horse looks 'fab', then I'm the queen of Sheba!


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## Dobiegirl (18 May 2011)

Im not getting into a slanging match here but want to post some useful advice. My daughters elderly pony with hardly any teeth was fed 4 times a day throughout the winter, he was also rugged even though he had a thick coat because when he got wet he never dried. I weight taped him once a week which is essential and took off and adjusted his rug every day.

last summer I took on 2 ponies from a rescue site for 6 weeks as they had barely any grass, had my vet out who did teeth and advised Panacur worming which was done. They were also fed 3 times a day as being elderly they had hardly any teeth so the fact we had grass was immaterial.I also put lightweight rugs on them when we had any prolonged period of rain as one had bouts of rainscald and I didnt want anything to drag them down. They were also weight taped once a week and a written record was get. They made steady gains and when they went back they looked a picture.

the point Im trying to make is a lot of time and effort is required to keep weight on and increase it. There are many food manufacturers out there who will do you a special menu for want of a better word who have a wealth of experience and anyone would be daft not to use it.

I look forward to seeing the progress on  Jades horse in the future and Im sure Jade will take on board all our useful advice.


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## equestrianabbie (18 May 2011)

Not sure if it's been mentioned but Jadine isn't 17, she's 19.


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## brighteyes (18 May 2011)

Unlike normal, I have NOT read through all the posts, just to page 3.

I would like to have up to date (on both counts) pictures of Carrot and Spud and Lady to compare condition.

I think Lady's confo doesn't help at all, and her age is quite possibly 'optimistic' as opposed to accurate.

If the Bransby place where C&S are is doing everything right and C&S look like Lady, then either Bransby need pulling up or Lady is doing fine under the circs.

I withold my judgement and can't believe there is no-one on here out of visiting distance to check the story out and stop the 'remote advice' until it is clear everything is in fact exactly as Jadey says it is.

I did exactly this with another poster who was called everything from TROLL to idiot and personally observed and weighed up the situation, which turned out to be actually BETTER than anticipated!  

The horse itself was of very doubtful quality but to say that its every need had been meticulously catered for was an understatement and I couldn't fault the management.

So, until there is an actual, first-hand assessment of the horse, situation and owner, can we please leave the speculation out of it?

Also, we bought a horse the previous owner, who was brilliant, cautioned us we'd struggle to keep weight on her in winter.  Errrr, no we don't!  Quite the reverse, but that doesn't make the prev owner negligent.


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## Wagtail (18 May 2011)

brighteyes said:



			Also, we bought a horse the previous owner, who was brilliant, cautioned us we'd struggle to keep weight on her in winter.  Errrr, no we don't!  Quite the reverse, but that doesn't make the prev owner negligent.
		
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I beg to differ on this point. I think your statement proves she was negligent. Too many people are not prepared to provide te extra care and feeding that is needed for a horse (especially a poor doer) during the winter. There seems to be a (thankfully outdated) perception that horses can be EXPECTED to lose condition over winter and balloon during summer. Proper management of horses ensures that there are are no sudden changes in body condition. Sudden changes either way are worse than anything.


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## jsr (18 May 2011)

Wagtail said:



			I beg to differ on this point. I think your statement proves she was negligent. Too many people are not prepared to provide te extra care and feeding that is needed for a horse (especially a poor doer) during the winter. There seems to be a (thankfully outdated) perception that horses can be EXPECTED to lose condition over winter and balloon during summer. Proper management of horses ensures that there are are no sudden changes in body condition. Sudden changes either way are worse than anything.
		
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Agreed. My first winter at a 'proper' livery yard saw my lad dropping a huge amount of weight. Having always had him on my own fields previously with copious grazing and of course being at home so able to feed as and when needed I'd never realised the impact that poor grazing and a hard winter would have on him. Needless to say the next winter I ensured he was getting 2 good feeds a day, adlib haylage and the correct rugs...didn't drop a kilo of weight..in fact think he put on due to less work!!!   I had no one to blame for his weight loss in the first year except myself and hang my head in shame for allowing it to happen. No excuses we buy a horse we accept responsiblity for it's care...if that means 2 visits a day to ensure it's welfare so be it. 

OP suck it up, take responsiblity you are not a child (as much as some people seem to think you are) and look after your horse correctly. If it's too far to walk and you can't drive buy a bike.


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## pizzi (18 May 2011)

Sanolly said:



			Ah but Fii this isn't the first time the mare has come out of winter looking this poor:
Beginning of last year: http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=355730
Last summer, still looking poor and no grass in the field or any signs of hay/haylage: http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=391138

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OMG! I cannot believe this horse was being ridden!  I had an old pony of 30 who I had to feed 3 times a day, was in a deep bed with adlib hay, she was rugged etc. She looked well and she was not a good doer. If you have a horse you have to meet it's needs. Too many excuses are made for bad horsemanship, if you can't look after them, don't have them. Might seem harsh but only thinking of horse's welfare.
There is a wealth of information on forums like these. Hopefully advice will be taken.


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## ThePinkPony (18 May 2011)

If i had a trailer i would drive the hour or two and take this horse myself! its so heartbreakingly unfair!


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## brown tack (18 May 2011)

amymay said:



			If you have bothered to read the thread, rather than jumping on the general bandwagon, you will see that it's aim was to advise people that the horse has been moved to the OP's village - and so is located a mere walk away from here house.

The rest has been covered.

Click to expand...

I did all the posts but for some reason I still had to get it off my chest!

I've worked at rescue centre so I've seen it all, but we had RSPCA cases in that looked much better then that mare at the end of the winter.

It pulls the heart strings ESP since I've delt with it first hand on a number of horses.

My point was why put the horse so far away in the first place? Why wasn't she taking responsibly of her from the start. And not blaming everyone else for not looking after the horse


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## DiablosGold (18 May 2011)

Would just like to point out that the horse's owner's age is irrelevant.  I was 16 when I first got Dibbs, having loaned, shared and worked at the RS previously.  

I took on advice from wherever I could get it and would have been deeply distressed had my horse looked like that at any point.

Anything else I would like to say has been done to death on this thread.  Hopefully the OP takes the more useful advice on board, some really good suggestions.  Would very much like to see an update in a month, as there can be such a difference in one month.


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## brighteyes (18 May 2011)

Wagtail said:



			I beg to differ on this point. I think your statement proves she was negligent. Too many people are not prepared to provide te extra care and feeding that is needed for a horse (especially a poor doer) during the winter. There seems to be a (thankfully outdated) perception that horses can be EXPECTED to lose condition over winter and balloon during summer. Proper management of horses ensures that there are are no sudden changes in body condition. Sudden changes either way are worse than anything.
		
Click to expand...

In fact, it was because she is a worrier and didn't want to stay out with her friends nor be inside either, so no, not negligent.  We just have the facilities which enable us to keep her from fence running.  Not negligent in the least and she didn't mean hatrack. In fact she meant the weight we like to have her generally! I know *all* the facts, you don't. But see how easy it is to have an opinion (and quite a condemning one) if you don't know all the circumstances.  Thank you.


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## brighteyes (18 May 2011)

joeanne said:



			Wagtail, what gets me is that Jade had a very kind offer from a very experienced forum member who is down the road. She offered to help Jade look at her overall management, and help her change what needed changing......and Jade refused her help!
		
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Oh damn!  - I should have read all the previous posts as I usually do!


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## Wagtail (18 May 2011)

brighteyes said:



			In fact, it was because she is a worrier and didn't want to stay out with her friends nor be inside either, so no, not negligent.  We just have the facilities which enable us to keep her from fence running.  Not negligent in the least and she didn't mean hatrack. In fact she meant the weight we like to have her generally! I know *all* the facts, you don't. But see how easy it is to have an opinion (and quite a condemning one) if you don't know all the circumstances.  Thank you.
		
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I would argue that if a horse was fence running something has to be done about it, and if it isn't then that is still negligent. Facilities are irrelevant. You change them to suit the horses needs. I've had to do it plenty of times.

So, as you are obviously so much wiser than the rest of us, what circumstance could possibly excuse an owner from allowing her horse to get so poor over winter? Obviously it is not a medical condition or she wouldn't be able to gain condition at any time, even in summer. It can b seen quite clearly that she does regain her condition.


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## hunting mad (18 May 2011)

Just wondering,and it really is a wonder if a welfare officer,or someone in authority could work with and advise Jadey on basic horse care and management???


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## touchstone (18 May 2011)

hunting mad said:



			Just wondering,and it really is a wonder if a welfare officer,or someone in authority could work with and advise Jadey on basic horse care and management???
		
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Ha! I was thinking exactly the same thing while doing the vacuuming this afternoon!

There should be a BHS welfare officer local to Jade, I'm sure that they'd be willing to visit regularly and give advice, especially over the winter months when it seems that Jade struggles, that would be the best thing I think?  I'm sure they'll be helpful rather than critical too but also be able to take action if needed, and step in before this mare would be likely to get in the same state.


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## brighteyes (18 May 2011)

Wagtail said:



			I would argue that if a horse was fence running something has to be done about it, and if it isn't then that is still negligent. Facilities are irrelevant. You change them to suit the horses needs. I've had to do it plenty of times.

So, as you are obviously so much wiser than the rest of us, what circumstance could possibly excuse an owner from allowing her horse to get so poor over winter? Obviously it is not a medical condition or she wouldn't be able to gain condition at any time, even in summer. It can b seen quite clearly that she does regain her condition.
		
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Yes of course, how silly of me.


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## TheEquineOak (18 May 2011)

spottybotty said:



			From the OPs profile
Date of Birth April 2, 1992 (19)

So is she 17 or 19???But  Irrespective of age of OP ,Lady should still not have been allowed to get in this state AGAIN.
		
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Same on facebook

Myself and a few other members have access to her page and you would all be horrified at some of the pics


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## Buzzby84 (18 May 2011)

RuthnMeg said:



			Oh, for christs sake! Some people are being unnecessarily harsh. Lady looks fine, and far from 'poor' in reality. So, we can see her ribs, she is short of muscles/lack of fitness and her coat hasn't come through properly in the first pic, but thats not nearing deaths door! Jade works hard at this mare, yet she is proud of her too and some of you are the sort of people who puts real dampeners on horse ownership. 
My elderly mare, in comparisson to Lady, at one point looked very thin coming out of winter in mid march time. She had been fine all through the worst of the winter and suddenly dropped off like no tomorrow. Yet, when I posted a pic of her, I had comments of her being 'fat'!  It doesn't add up, and Lady being the type of horse she is, is never going to be 'well covered'. Also, have to note, why are people questioning the first photo, when clearly the horse has improved? Should you not be applauding Jade on the right choices she has made for the horse in order to get her looking better? 
 Jade, you are doing a fab job and Lady IS looking well.
		
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Are you joking? I would hate to see a horse you think IS poor, Buzz is the same age as Lady and to compare the two you would say she is in her 30's and he is a youngster!! Jade is an unrealiable and irresponsiable horse owner and hopefully Lady will be removed from her care!


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## equestrianabbie (19 May 2011)

TheEquineOak said:



			Same on facebook

Myself and a few other members have access to her page and you would all be horrified at some of the pics
		
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I know Jadine in real life and just so the questions stop: Yes, she is 19.


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## Puppy (19 May 2011)

The photos on FB are indeed as concerning as those that have been posted on here in the last couple of years.  

Jade, I think it would be a good idea to have Lady tested for cushings, given her coat and other symptoms.


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## DragonSlayer (19 May 2011)

TheEquineOak said:



			*FACEPALM*

Feed it.

Feed it, Feed it, Feed it.

Alfa A oil, vegetable oil, veteran/buildup mix and ad lib HAYLAGE.

Over the winter our grass was covered in snow and then ice for 11 WEEKS.  None of them looked as poor as this.

Weight tapes cost a couple of quid, buy one and use it EVERY week

I look forward to seeing some pics of her in the summer up to weight and looking healthy

PS. there are so many contradictions on this thread I have gone cross eyed 

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Ours came out looking FATTER! We had to reduce their intake, the greedy devils! 

There is no point in trying to reason with a person who obviously has no real clue of horse ownership....all she wants to hear, is everyone saying 'oooooo....aren't you super, working so hard for this poor horse....'...

It worries me, as others, to see so little grass, and not a scrap of hay in sight.....


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## equestrianabbie (19 May 2011)

Right, enough is enough.

I went up to the new yard with Jadine today and I can assure you that things are much better than they seem.  Lady isn't at all "skin and bones" and if anything she's becoming a little porker.  Jadine treated the cuts on Lady's leg with recommendations that she'd heard/been given on this forum by members I know.  (The cuts are from frolicking with the other horses.)

The new yard is extremely good quality compared to the old one, the horses have good quality grass and also hay and for those of you who've asked, they get put into another field if the grass were to gets low in the current one.  Lady ate her 2nd feed today and when I offered her hay she refused it, does that really sound like a starved horse?  

Jadine cares a hell of a lot about this horse and I honestly think some people have gone too far with their assumptions because before you go down there and see for yourself what rights do you have?  I'm sure if anyone wanted to see for themselves Jadine would be happy to show you.  

I can't answer all of the accusations because it isn't my horse but I think everyone needs to calm down and be slightly more understanding.  I myself work for and have worked for various Equine Chairties and welfare organisations so please don't tell me that I'm underreacting but I've seen cruelty and what I saw together was someone who was trying their best.


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## DragonSlayer (19 May 2011)

equestrianabbie said:



			Right, enough is enough.

I went up to the new yard with Jadine today and I can assure you that things are much better than they seem.  Lady isn't at all "skin and bones" and if anything she's becoming a little porker.  Jadine treated the cuts on Lady's leg with recommendations that she'd heard/been given on this forum by members I know.  (The cuts are from frolicking with the other horses.)

The new yard is extremely good quality compared to the old one, the horses have good quality grass and also hay and for those of you who've asked, they get put into another field if the grass were to gets low in the current one.  Lady ate her 2nd feed today and when I offered her hay she refused it, does that really sound like a starved horse?  

Jadine cares a hell of a lot about this horse and I honestly think some people have gone too far with their assumptions because before you go down there and see for yourself what rights do you have?  I'm sure if anyone wanted to see for themselves Jadine would be happy to show you.  

I can't answer all of the accusations because it isn't my horse but I think everyone needs to calm down and be slightly more understanding.  I myself work for and have worked for various Equine Chairties and welfare organisations so please don't tell me that I'm underreacting but I've seen cruelty and what I saw together was someone who was trying their best.
		
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The fact that this is the second year running the horse looks the same is concerning.

Anyone making a statement of '..oh, but she loves the horse' is delusional.

Ignorance is NOT an excuse.


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## Amymay (19 May 2011)

I agree EA she may not want any hay if she has plenty of grass. Onwards and upwards eh?


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## equestrianabbie (19 May 2011)

amymay said:



			I agree EA she may not want any hay if she has plenty of grass. Onwards and upwards eh?
		
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Yes definitely, I do understand that people are concerned but Jadine isn't unfit to look after a horse.  I also know the girl who owns the field Lady's in now and she's owned horses for years, so has her mother, so they're passing on their experience too.


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## Wagtail (19 May 2011)

I don't think any one is concerned for the horse right now. They are concerned about the coming winter after seeing pictures of the horse looking poor coming out of the previous two. She is obviously a poor doer and Jade intends to feed her ad-lib hay and 3 feeds a day. That is great. The problem as I see it is that the other liveries may not want/need to feed so much. If they don't, their horses will eat Lady's hay, therefore negating any of Jades well intentioned efforts. The problem I have not heard addressed is what Jade intends to do about this inevitable situation as I have asked twice and received no reply. Of course, Jade is perfectly within her rights to ignore people's questions, but it does worry me, and when people post up pictures of their horse looking so poor, they have to expect that some people may be concerned.


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## JadeyyAndLadyy (19 May 2011)

Wagtail said:



			I don't think any one is concerned for the horse right now. They are concerned about the coming winter after seeing pictures of the horse looking poor coming out of the previous two. She is obviously a poor doer and Jade intends to feed her ad-lib hay and 3 feeds a day. That is great. The problem as I see it is that the other liveries may not want/need to feed so much. If they don't, their horses will eat Lady's hay, therefore negating any of Jades well intentioned efforts. The problem I have not heard addressed is what Jade intends to do about this inevitable situation as I have asked twice and received no reply. Of course, Jade is perfectly within her rights to ignore people's questions, but it does worry me, and when people post up pictures of their horse looking so poor, they have to expect that some people may be concerned.
		
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I was thinking about this today, i will have a word with my friends and ask if it will be possible to section Lady off as she is a poor doer and i want her to have ad lib hay. Im sure they wont have a problem with this, so i will ask next time i see them


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## Wagtail (19 May 2011)

JadeyyAndLadyy said:



			I was thinking about this today, i will have a word with my friends and ask if it will be possible to section Lady off as she is a poor doer and i want her to have ad lib hay. Im sure they wont have a problem with this, so i will ask next time i see them 

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That's great Jadine. It sounds that you finally have this thing in hand.


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## hunting mad (19 May 2011)

Wagtail said:



			That's great Jadine. It sounds that you finally have this thing in hand. 

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I hope you are right.
Seriously Jady,you have lots of offer of help from experienced horse owners please take it,and if you find out that you really can not look after the mare,for what ever reason,lack of money,time etc,please do the right thing by your mare,and dont let her suffer anymore


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## skewby (19 May 2011)

OP - There's nothing the HHO mob likes more than a teenager to pick on.  Well done for asking for advice and don't let this place put you off doing so in the future.  Mob - hope your "one of the gang" feelings are not in the least marred by the fact you've had a go at a kid!  I'm sure they're not.


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## littlemisslauren (19 May 2011)

Skewby - I would have been highly miffed if I was referred to as a kid at 19! Not disputing your post btw


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## Weezy (19 May 2011)

Bloody hell, I wish I had read this thread earlier.

I offered J help before and she didn't want it, which is fine.  I monitored Lady as I knew where she was and I drive past the field regularly.  I must say that Lady photographs badly and at no point have I had to contact J and say OI THIS HAS TO STOP.  The field she was in was less than ideal for sure, the grass was not abundant, however, most every time I went past there WAS hay or haylage (cannot tell from a distance) present or evidence that it HAD been there.  There were also usually feed bowls there too.

It is NOT J's fault that her friend let her down...easy enough to say that she should be there at all hours but anyone with a busy life knows that that is not always possible.  There was concern a month or so ago about Lady, but I knew first hand that she was being well guided and taking everything into hand...hence the change of location.

Lady's confo is poor, and now she is older she won't ever look like a show horse and, due to her poor confo, I would not want to see her heavy as I think it would cause distress.

J loves her horse and yes, she may not be a nutritional expert but when you rely on others to feed for you you can only do so much.

I won't sit quietly and listen to all the outpourings of hate, it sucks.  Give constructive crit but saying that you would remove a horse is utterly wrong.


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## Girlracer (19 May 2011)

skewby said:



			OP - There's nothing the HHO mob likes more than a teenager to pick on.  Well done for asking for advice and don't let this place put you off doing so in the future.  Mob - hope your "one of the gang" feelings are not in the least marred by the fact you've had a go at a kid!  I'm sure they're not.
		
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Just to say i'm 19 also, and if i posted photos of my horse looking like this i would more than expect a reaction like this one!! 

Glad your trying to get things in hand Jadine, that's really fab. Hope we see some photos of her looking very well soon, then you just need to work on keeping the weight on


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## Kokopelli (19 May 2011)

I see the 'if it's not the size of a hippopotamus it's emaciated' brigade are at it again. 

Lady is far from emaciated and by the sounds of it Jade is doing something to help with her weight. She looks better after 1 week!! Imagine how great she will look in a month.


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## lexiedhb (19 May 2011)

Weezy said:



			Bloody hell, I wish I had read this thread earlier.

I offered J help before and she didn't want it, which is fine.  I monitored Lady as I knew where she was and I drive past the field regularly.  I must say that Lady photographs badly and at no point have I had to contact J and say OI THIS HAS TO STOP.  The field she was in was less than ideal for sure, the grass was not abundant, however, most every time I went past there WAS hay or haylage (cannot tell from a distance) present or evidence that it HAD been there.  There were also usually feed bowls there too.

It is NOT J's fault that her friend let her down...easy enough to say that she should be there at all hours but anyone with a busy life knows that that is not always possible.  There was concern a month or so ago about Lady, but I knew first hand that she was being well guided and taking everything into hand...hence the change of location.

Lady's confo is poor, and now she is older she won't ever look like a show horse and, due to her poor confo, I would not want to see her heavy as I think it would cause distress.

J loves her horse and yes, she may not be a nutritional expert but when you rely on others to feed for you you can only do so much.

I won't sit quietly and listen to all the outpourings of hate, it sucks.  Give constructive crit but saying that you would remove a horse is utterly wrong.
		
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Finally!

Thanks for putting it better than I could have,


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## DragonSlayer (19 May 2011)

skewby said:



			OP - There's nothing the HHO mob likes more than a teenager to pick on.  Well done for asking for advice and don't let this place put you off doing so in the future.  Mob - hope your "one of the gang" feelings are not in the least marred by the fact you've had a go at a kid!  I'm sure they're not.
		
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The OP is 19 years old, classes as an adult. Over time, various offers of help have been given, and the OP has neither bothered or ignored. The MOB then, has lost patience, and cannot be arsed with skirting over things anymore.


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## ShowJumperBeckii (20 May 2011)

i think people on here seem to over react and go off the subject alot...   jades showing her mare IMPROVING condition and yes i can understand why some people would crit shes skinny in the first pic but im sure she wouldt mind about a few people critting etc but theres a differents between that and being so d@mn right rude! 
by saying rude nasty thoughtless comments wheres it going to get the mare? no where, just makes people feel bad about themselves. im pretty sure jade loves this mare more than anything so i highy expect shes trying her hardest and not making excuses about her feeding etc,  and theres so many worse things happening to horses in the world and some people feel the need to have a petty arugement over a post thats showing jades doing GOOD! and trying her very best to improve her condition...


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## Tormenta (20 May 2011)

Good luck Jade, just keep us updated and more photos if you are brave enough. I have to admire the fact that you never get angry or resentful and conduct yourself in a very mature manner. I hope Ladey is improving even more.


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## brighteyes (20 May 2011)

Weezy said:



			Bloody hell, I wish I had read this thread earlier.

I offered J help before and she didn't want it, which is fine.  I monitored Lady as I knew where she was and I drive past the field regularly.  I must say that Lady photographs badly and at no point have I had to contact J and say OI THIS HAS TO STOP.  The field she was in was less than ideal for sure, the grass was not abundant, however, most every time I went past there WAS hay or haylage (cannot tell from a distance) present or evidence that it HAD been there.  There were also usually feed bowls there too.

It is NOT J's fault that her friend let her down...easy enough to say that she should be there at all hours but anyone with a busy life knows that that is not always possible.  There was concern a month or so ago about Lady, but I knew first hand that she was being well guided and taking everything into hand...hence the change of location.

Lady's confo is poor, and now she is older she won't ever look like a show horse and, due to her poor confo, I would not want to see her heavy as I think it would cause distress.

J loves her horse and yes, she may not be a nutritional expert but when you rely on others to feed for you you can only do so much.

I won't sit quietly and listen to all the outpourings of hate, it sucks.  Give constructive crit but saying that you would remove a horse is utterly wrong.
		
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Amen to that.


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## Roasted Chestnuts (20 May 2011)

If my 20 year old looked like this I have to say I would have my friends causing me some serious physical harm jade.

There is no excuse what so ever for the way your mare looks. That didnt happen in a week that took Weeks and if I took a rug off one of mines, and they looked like that they would have been straight in a stable on good feeding. and I would have been putting bales out in the field for them.

Another recommendation for buckets of veteran vitality, and oil. also get a multivit with a decent level of selenium for the oil


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## equestrianabbie (25 May 2011)

As most of you will know I'm good friends with Jadine and I've tried to support her as much as possible but I'm about ready to give up as I've just read that Lady was taken out on a hack a few days ago.

Hopefully someone else can offer he some more advice as I don't know what to suggest anymore.


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## bensababy (25 May 2011)

equestrianabbie said:



			As most of you will know I'm good friends with Jadine and I've tried to support her as much as possible but I'm about ready to give up as I've just read that Lady was taken out on a hack a few days ago.

Hopefully someone else can offer he some more advice as I don't know what to suggest anymore.
		
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Clearly the good advice that was offered to her on here wasnt taken into account, i feel for this mare. Shame.


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## jsr (25 May 2011)

equestrianabbie said:



			As most of you will know I'm good friends with Jadine and I've tried to support her as much as possible but I'm about ready to give up as I've just read that Lady was taken out on a hack a few days ago.

Hopefully someone else can offer he some more advice as I don't know what to suggest anymore.
		
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Very sorry to read this and I'm afraid if that is true it's just confirmed the negative reactions were warranted. She obviously hasn't listened and thinks more about herself than the poor horse.   Lets hope this is one time that the authorities do step in and take action.


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## Wagtail (25 May 2011)

equestrianabbie said:



			As most of you will know I'm good friends with Jadine and I've tried to support her as much as possible but I'm about ready to give up as I've just read that Lady was taken out on a hack a few days ago.

Hopefully someone else can offer he some more advice as I don't know what to suggest anymore.
		
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That is a real shame. Some people like to present their problems and when others try to help they make all the right noises but take no notice. Poor mare.


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## ThePinkPony (25 May 2011)

Oh no!

That has literally made me deflate. Surely now is the time to report her to the rspca. that horse cannot be hacked, look at it, its not fair.


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## equestrianabbie (25 May 2011)

I sent her a text to see what she said about it but I couldn't get much from her.  I'm putting a lot on the line posting this as we're good friends but I thought things would get better and they aren't.  I just don't know what to suggest anymore.


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## Dizzle (25 May 2011)

Now this thread is making me even sadder.


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## muddygreymare (25 May 2011)

This is so sad, poor mare


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## Buzzby84 (25 May 2011)

Someone please report her to WHW she is a despicable human being and should not be allowed any wear near animals.


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## equestrianabbie (25 May 2011)

I feel like such a terrible friend :-(


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## Angua2 (25 May 2011)

ThePinkPony said:



			Oh no!

That has literally made me deflate. Surely now is the time to report her to the rspca. that horse cannot be hacked, look at it, its not fair.
		
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If I remember correctly she was regularly visited by the RSPCA last year.


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## ThePinkPony (25 May 2011)

Again then. i know the RSPCA are rubbish but its worth a try, anything to get this horse away.

EA... you arent a bad friend. if this was my mate then id have done much worse. she obviously doesnt love the horse at all, can you imagine how its suffering?


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## Damnation (25 May 2011)

Unfortunately some horses geuninely are hard to get weight onto. Especially one who is older, and after such a hard winter. Plus I believe it has been mentioned in previous threads that the mare wouldn't be stabled.
There are pictures on the OP's HHO profiley thing with the mare looking fab.
As I said in my previous post, I wish the OP the best of luck this winter, armed with the feeding advice of the forum. Hopefully she will keep ontop of the mares weight.
As Weezy said, if your relying on someone to feed your horse and they don't.. what can you do? When you are a young girl who can't yet drive, you HAVE to rely on other people.
All the best OP, hope your pony is looking much better already!
D 

ETA: Just saw Jade hacked the mare out. I hope her the mare has put weight on before she was taken hacking


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## equestrianabbie (25 May 2011)

ThePinkPony said:



			Again then. i know the RSPCA are rubbish but its worth a try, anything to get this horse away.

EA... you arent a bad friend. if this was my mate then id have done much worse. she obviously doesnt love the horse at all, can you imagine how its suffering?
		
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I know but I only went up last week and Jadine was doing so well, she really does care for Lady so I'm not sure why she rode her, when she knows she's in no state to be ridden.  I just can't understand it :-(


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## mollichop (25 May 2011)

don't feel bad - pm'ing you!


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## ruby1512 (25 May 2011)

She rode this mare?????????? oh my!


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## Kokopelli (25 May 2011)

The RSPCA are a waste of space don't even bother with them.


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## ThePinkPony (25 May 2011)

well who is going to help this horse then?


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## Roasted Chestnuts (25 May 2011)

By the looks of things nobody. The owner doesnt care, the RSPCA doesnt care so who else is there??? WHW??? Do they even do this sort of thing???

Disgusted is all I can say after hearing that the poor mare is being ridden, no wonder her back looks like a banana  I know her conformation isnt great in that Dept but a wee bit of covering wouldnt go miss, and in the pcs someone posted of this mare in the summer I wouldnt call that condition I would even call that poor. 

Poor poor mare


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## Javabb94 (25 May 2011)

Equestrianabbie- atleast you tried which is all you can do  

Dont feel like a bad friend it isn't your fault 

I haven't posted before on this thread but followed it and it seemed like she was starting to take advice which is great but obviously not


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## ThePinkPony (25 May 2011)

Im amazed at the amount oh HHoers who would lynch people for far less but noone seems to care about this poor girl. 

jadine obviously doesnt care about her as much as she would have us believe if she is out riding her in this condition. its bloody nearly june fgs that horse should be looking better by now!

I just cant believe there is nothing that can be done. its heartbreaking.


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## Spudlet (25 May 2011)

The only thing to do, other than offering advice and help, is for someone that knows where this horse is to report the situation to one of the welfare charities. It's not something that can be done via a forum, it has to be someone that can see the situation first hand that does this. That is what makes this so frustrating!


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## ThePinkPony (25 May 2011)

but equestrian Abbie knows the girl. i PMed her to ask the girls details so i could report it but she refused. imho that makes her just as bad for letting it happen as does anyone else who is seeing it and ignoring it.

Its so upsetting. i would have this girl in a heartbeat and make her better just for her to live in a feild for the rest of her life and keep my young girl company.


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## DragonSlayer (25 May 2011)

ThePinkPony said:



			but equestrian Abbie knows the girl. i PMed her to ask the girls details so i could report it but she refused. imho that makes her just as bad for letting it happen as does anyone else who is seeing it and ignoring it.

Its so upsetting. i would have this girl in a heartbeat and make her better just for her to live in a feild for the rest of her life and keep my young girl company.
		
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Well, if you don't know the girls details, then what can anyone do?

Yes, it's frustrating, and maybe now people can see why there were negative comments about this whole situation, because they could see it coming...

I hope EA WILL pass on details to SOMEONE, then if hopefully it can get into the hands of the authorities, and something can get done.


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## equestrianabbie (25 May 2011)

You have to understand my position here, I don't want to pass on her phone number/Facebook/location of the mare to people whom I don't know.

If someone wants to PM me and put me in the direction of someone who can help I will do something about it.


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## ThePinkPony (25 May 2011)

I have just seen pictures of lady. 

She looks much better, i wouldnt say rideable though. 

Its frustrating as this never needed to happen, and no inspector is going to think now that there is anything wrong... until next spring, when it happens again.

and she is being ridden and from the pics loose jumped in a school too.


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## Syrah (25 May 2011)

ThePinkPony said:



			but equestrian Abbie knows the girl. i PMed her to ask the girls details so i could report it but she refused. imho that makes her just as bad for letting it happen as does anyone else who is seeing it and ignoring it.

Its so upsetting. i would have this girl in a heartbeat and make her better just for her to live in a feild for the rest of her life and keep my young girl company.
		
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You are a total stranger from the internet.  No offence but Abbie has done the right thing in refusing to give Jadines details.


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## Hacked_Off (25 May 2011)

ThePinkPony said:



			I have just seen pictures of lady. 

She looks much better, i wouldnt say rideable though. 

Its frustrating as this never needed to happen, and no inspector is going to think now that there is anything wrong... until next spring, when it happens again.

and she is being ridden and from the pics loose jumped in a school too.
		
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Exactly. From the new pics you can see she's put on some weight but still not enough. I'd love to hear what jadine has to say for herself.


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## DragonSlayer (25 May 2011)

equestrianabbie said:



			You have to understand my position here, I don't want to pass on her phone number/Facebook/location of the mare to people whom I don't know.

If someone wants to PM me and put me in the direction of someone who can help I will do something about it.
		
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It's why I said SOMEONE....like the RSPCA etc etc...


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## milesjess (25 May 2011)

She definitely looks better and happier. Ribs aren't as visible. Look forward to seeing her progress  well done, she's a lucky girl to have found you.


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## GinaB (25 May 2011)

I have just seen updated pictures of Lady and she does look much, much better. Coat is lovely and shiny, and definite improvement in her weight. Personally, I wouldn't be riding her yet, I don't know if OP is, I can't be bothered looking through posts/dates of riding photos.


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## indie999 (25 May 2011)

indie999 said:



			Dont know the story but her rump doesnt look as bony, or ribs (unless its the light)

What was her story? She looked emaciated in 1st pic def.
		
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certainly no expert and put this on at the beginning.Didnt know the story etc  got a bit of criticism for saying emaciated etc, but I dont care its the horse that interests me not its owner.

The common theme here is the defence of the owners feelings v what is the best interest of the horse?

Animals need dependable humans around them to care for them properly.The horse seems to have been let down, not just once or twice. Too  many excuses, part time worker, full time worker, cost, field is wrong,then not knowing what they have done wrong? or what others have done wrong? Blame everyone except yourself. The list of failed reasons is endless . 

I think this young lady? seriously needs to man up and face reality. Its not a game or toy or cuddly. If you cant cope seek proper help from experienced people. Not enough to walk the horse for a couple of hours to graze elsewhere either? The folks who reported you are the good guys they were trying to save your horse from you.

Until you have good facilities and a good budget dont ever have another horse. Please do it properly in future or go to a riding school and spend your money riding someone elses horses that are cared for properly, go on a course etc. See how it should be done, you need educating. Dont ever let your self get into this predicament again. Get yourself out of it for the sake of the horse(Not you)! please!

Far too many excuses.


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## Hacked_Off (25 May 2011)

GinaB said:



			I have just seen updated pictures of Lady and she does look much, much better. Coat is lovely and shiny, and definite improvement in her weight. Personally, I wouldn't be riding her yet, I don't know if OP is, I can't be bothered looking through posts/dates of riding photos.
		
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She is being ridden. According to facebook they hacked out a few days ago.


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## Shearer (25 May 2011)

I also read on facebook that the mare was being ridden again and couldn't believe it. I don't know Jadine that well but it's completely shocked me the state her horse is in. I very much doubt the RSPCA would do anything though.


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## magic104 (25 May 2011)

I only got to pg 12 but what I believe is this mare was rugged & no one was bothering to check her except when she was ridden.  A horse can drop condition from stressing, but unlikely to be Lady's problem.  It really does not matter if you have acres of grass in winter, all it does is fill them up, there is no nutritional value.  I also think she is older then 20 & being sway backed will make her look worse.  I will never understand how anyone would even dream of riding her when she looked as poor as she did.  How unfair when it is clear she has no muscle tone & being long backed to boot.  Flick was a right state when we got her & it took the May grass to really put the weight on.  She did drop a bit of condition, but she was stabled at night & being monitored so nothing like the way she came out of the 2009 winter.  One thing for sure it was some time before she was started with long reining & lunge work, let alone being ridden.  I am glad the mare has started to recover but serious preparation is needed going into winter to ensure she does not go down hill yet again.  If you are riding her then I would be feeding her either a condition feed or one suited for the aged horse, then come the winter ensure she has access to plenty of haylage.  At her age she should be seeing the dentist at the very least every year if not 6mths.  I also think you ought to be seeking advice from your vet.


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## magic104 (25 May 2011)

Bojangles said:



			I do use body condtion on mine as he is far from being poor!! Muscle takes time to build up so I won't expert it to happern over a short time.
		
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Come on she has had the horse for 2 winters!!  This is a TB mare, 13 now

When I got her Feb 2010






May 2010 






She came back into work Jan this year & after months of work on the ground then walk work under saddle Apr












May






And the excuse is?


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## *hic* (25 May 2011)

I'll stick my neck out here and say that if the most recent pictures posted on facebook are the most recent taken then the mare appears to be picking up nicely and assuming she's going out for gentle strolls as her hacking then that would be ideal to help her build some appropriate muscle to help her look much better. 

However I do think that working hard would be inappropriate and that Jade really needs to keep a careful eye on her condition. Way back up there I suggested taking a photo each week of her stood up the same way. Jade, if you're still reading, do seriously consider doing this, it really will help you to see how she`s changing for ther better and give you a warning if she starts to go the wrong way again.


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## magic104 (25 May 2011)

jemima_too said:



			I'll stick my neck out here and say that if the most recent pictures posted on facebook are the most recent taken then the mare appears to be picking up nicely and assuming she's going out for gentle strolls as her hacking then that would be ideal to help her build some appropriate muscle to help her look much better. 

However I do think that working hard would be inappropriate and that Jade really needs to keep a careful eye on her condition.
		
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See there you go, I would disagree until the mare had built up some muscle in her back.  I would have spent time doing that first especially with a sway backed horse.  But as they say there is more then one way to skin a cat.  For me it does not feel right to ask a horse to carry the weight of a rider before it has the strength to do so.


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## horsey mad matt (26 May 2011)

have haven't posted on this thread yet but feel i have too!! the pictures are awful and especially in the links sanolly gave of her being ridden. i'm not going to have a go as i'm no like that but this horse needs weight putting on ready for the winter. if she winter badly then you want her going into the winter looking fat so if she does loose any weight, next spring she wont be as bad. also she needs to have adlib hayledge or hay and on a good feed atleast twice a day if not three times. what is you current daily regime, what are you feeding her etc!!


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## brighteyes (26 May 2011)

Hmmm, riding the horse in its current condition slightly alters my view.


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## PapaFrita (6 June 2011)

ThePinkPony said:



			and she is being ridden and from the pics loose jumped in a school too.
		
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Did you think to check on the dates??
I've seen FB pics and think Lady is looking loads better and agree with Jemima_too that hacking won't do her any harm.


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## TheEquineOak (6 June 2011)

PapaFrita said:



			Did you think to check on the dates??
I've seen FB pics and think Lady is looking loads better and agree with Jemima_too that hacking won't do her any harm.
		
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I agree   lovely coat on her.


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## RuthnMeg (6 June 2011)

TheEquineOak said:



			I agree   lovely coat on her.
		
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I agree too, Lady looking very well.


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## Sparkles (6 June 2011)

I think the current photos of Lady put up in the past few days on FB are lovely and possibly the best she's looked since she's had her.

New yard, new routine, new start.


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## Damnation (6 June 2011)

I'm glad to hear Lady is picking up.


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## Amymay (6 June 2011)

Massive improvement. Mare looks great.


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