# Windsucking/cribbing



## melle (8 November 2006)

Firstly, what is the difference between the two?

And would you guys consider buying/loaning a cribber/windsucker. I have been offered the chance of loaning/buying v v cheap a five year old that grabs doors, fence posts etc and gulps air. I am not interested in making money but also don't want to get attched to a horse that will have a load of health problems as a result. Other than that she would be a perfect little horse for me.

She is at a yard with restricted turnout but gets turned out more than the others (for about 4 hours a day. They have it controlled in the stable using cribbox and a door grille so she doesn't do it when stood in but will stand out in the field doing it, actually stopping grazing to wander over to a fence post even with a nutcraker collar on although I believe these have to be extremely tight to actually work. 

Any advice or ideas of potential management of this problem?


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## samp (8 November 2006)

Crib biting is where they grab hold of something and gulp in air.Windscuking is where they do not grab hold of anything but gulp in air. Crib biting is easier to manage - though not ideal and drops the horses value off


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## melle (8 November 2006)

Am I right in thiinking it can cause colic?


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## Tufty (8 November 2006)

yes it can but you can also help buy supplements and some people use a collar to prevent the cribbing/windsucking - its one of those subjects that people have their own view on you either refuse to ever have a horse with this vice or you take a view and manage the situation.  Some people cant stand the noise they make, others think of it in terms of money value when they come to sell, its just a personal thing.  There is no known cure for it just preventative measures ie collars, brushes on doors etc and also some people say that other horses copy it.  Some yards will not have windsuckers/cribbers on


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## melle (8 November 2006)

what is your view?


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## Tierra (8 November 2006)

Theres been a lot of posts on this recently so a quick search on the forums should give you a huge amount of varying opinion.

Personally, I wouldnt take on a horse that cribs or windsucks because the noise drives me crazy... I find it very infuriating and that wouldnt be fair on the horse.

Theres a few points you should consider however. My main concern would be the stigma attached to horses with this habit. Lots of yards wont take horses that crib or windsuck. This can create huge problems if you buy her and need to move her at a later point. Amongst those that do, you will no doubt encounter other liveries that wont want their horse stabled near to her (possibly even out with her) because some still believe that horses will mimic the behaviour. While technically this would be for the YO to deal with, that stigma would still be attached to you and your horse and in an already bitchy as hell world, Id be concerned it may make things uncomfortable for you.

Another issue to consider is whether you will ever need to pass her on. Lots of people just wont take on horses that crib or windsuck which means selling will potentially always be difficult even if you arent concerned about the actual value.

In terms of managing it. People on here seem to have fab experiences with the coligone supplement but thats not something I can personally comment on. The use of collars is somewhat controversial and their effectiveness also seems rather questionable.

Its absolutly your choice and only you know whether its an issue you are prepared to deal with in the long term. You say the little horse is ideal for you, but please remember there are a LOT of horses out there and unless you are looking for something extremely specific, the chances are you could find another perfect partner.

My absolute personal view is that horses that crib / windsuck are more suited to homes where people have their own land and can keep the horses at home where the behaviour can not effect anyone else. The minute you have to involve other people (as is the case on livery yards) then you add a whole other dimension to the problem. If you do buy her however, make sure that whatever you pay is an amount that you could afford to throw away completly - that will then cover you for the problems you could have if you want to sell her on.


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## Toby_Zaphod (8 November 2006)

A friend of mine bought a horse that cribs about 12-13 years ago. He came at the right price because of his cribbing. She still has him &amp; he still cribs, he's 19 years old &amp; lovely. In between times he has competed &amp; done very well at County Level Workers. He's also got 98 British Dressage Points to his name. He's an absolute star. He's the best schooled horse on the yard. He's one of the best jumpers on the yard &amp; he occasionally still competes at Novice/Elementary level dressage. Oh, he's had a few outings this season doing a bit of veteran stuff as well. He cribs....so what!


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## Litorio (8 November 2006)

a horse at my uni crib bites. i feel so sorry for him as it seems he is so stressed.
he bites and kicks and has to wear a muzzle when you groom or tack him up and he hardly gets to go out in the field at all.

Poor george.

I love him though, he's a cracking horse


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## melle (8 November 2006)

Just been searching and came accross a few posts about it. It is a really tricky situation but Coligne does sound like it may help. However, I can't obviously try that until I have bought/loaned her and is also another expense every month on top of normal upkeep of a horse.

Hmmm


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## 10past6 (8 November 2006)

My boy windsucked like mad when i got him, so i changed his diet to a hight fibre diet which seem to have helped alot as now when hes in his stable without his collar he doesnt try it very often. I dont use the nutcracker action collar i use the other type that goes around the front of the head and this has also worked very well. 
He is also turned out for as long as possible. 

Some horses will always do it, where others you can manage it. If this horse is exactly what you want i wouldn't worry about it, but i would check that where you want to keep it allows cribbers/windsuckers first.

Good luck.


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## the watcher (8 November 2006)

I have one, he has been a windsucker since he was a foal, and is said to have learned it from his mother, who was a competition horse. He is lightweight and has just come back from being on loan where he lost even more weight through windsucking 24/7 (apparently). I can manage him to the point where he will only do it after meals or when very stressed by feeding lots of bulk to keep him busy and a couple of Gaviscon tablets a day. I gave him a tube of Coligone to travel back but he spat most of it, so not sure how effective it was..I will also add aloe vera juice to his food as it is proved to be effective in calming inflamed digestive systems. He has never had colic and I don't anticipate that this is going to cause serious or expensive problems.

Windsucking and cribbing are very common in competition yards, in fact it is at the lower level where there is more ignorance about it. But that doesn't help you if you are trying to place a horse at a livery yard. Personally I would never use a collar as I think it would cause stress and make the symptoms worse, that is my choice and I know others who would disagree.

i would go for it, as long as you are happy you can give this horse a home, on a high fibre cereal free diet, and daily Gaviscon/ Coligone or similar you might even see an improvement


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## pushywoman (8 November 2006)

Please o please go on The Smiling Thoroughbred course or email veronica@thesmilingthoroughbred.co.uk as unfortunately there are so many myths out there associated with cribbing and windsucking horses. 

Firstly horses do not suck in air.

Secondly crib collars compromise your horses welfare and thirdly cribbing doesn't directly cause colic. The colic you associate with cribbing horses is due to colic and cribbing having in some cases the same cause. To find out more please see www.thesmilingthoroughbred.co.uk. There course on The Science Behind Equine Welfare and Behaviour is absolutely the most useful course you could ever go on.
They cover amongst other things stereotypies (inc cribbing), colic and laminitis and what you can do to prevent them.







Next course is in feb.


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## valentine (8 November 2006)

i totally agree with the above. I have 2 horses that are windsuckers i have never had a problem and this would not put me off......If i chose to sell one of mine there is know way that i would reduce the price for this habit either the person wants them or they dont.. go ahead and take the horse and enjoy all the years you have ahead with them . Let me know what you do. goodluck and provide the horse with as much turn out as you can this helps to maintain a happy horse


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## kayleigh_and_rocky (8 November 2006)

Firstly windsucking/cribbing does not cause colic!!!!!! The cause of colic is usually the cause of cribbing!! (stress, acid, ulsers) that is just a myth
Secondly it is not learned in adult horses, we had a cribber which had a non cribber as a stable companion (they shared the same stable and field) and yet the companion never learnt to crib!
Using a collar on a already cribbing by habit cribber is frutless and yes it is cruel and purely in my opinion for human vanity and conveniance!! I can only see a use for it when the cribbing has JUST started so that the cause for the cribbing (stress, boredom etc) can be sorted out and the cribbing doesnt becaome a habit
We had a psychologist out to study our cribber (well YMs cribber) and he said tht it was a lot like alcoholism, the horse did it because it was addicted, it no longer had a reason to crib, and yet couldnt stop.
Fed up of all the myths out there!


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## MagicMelon (8 November 2006)

I think it CAN cause colic in some horses. I had a cribber, she got spasmodic colic once but I believe that was due to something other than cribbing. I know another horse who does crib a lot, the horse basically fills himself up with air so it results in him regularily getting colic. 

To be honest, I wouldnt buy another. I didnt think it would bother me, but it really irritated me when she did it! She destroyed a lot our fencing (grabbing hold of fence posts) and all our wooden railings / stables etc. we tried the usual sprays etc. to put her off but nothing worked. Collars also do not work, dont think you can break the habit by using one - as soon as you take it off, they'll do it! Long term the only real problem I think cribbing causes is that it does wear down their top teeth quite badly by the time they get older.

I think the only thing you can do is try to take the usual steps to try to minimise it like not feeding cereals, permanent turnout etc. If you can put up with it then go for it, if the horse is perfect for you then it may well be worth it. Like Ive said above, it wasnt the health 'risks' (if there are any, obviously nothing is proven) that put me off buying another - it was simply because she damaged so much doing it!!


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## charlie76 (9 November 2006)

I have just bought a horse that cribs- to be honest she is such a good girl to ride and handle that it really doesn't bother me!( I thought it might but is doesn't),I would rather have a horse with a vice then one that it a g*t to ride!


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## melle (11 November 2006)

Thanks for all the replies. One of my concerns was placing her in a livery yard and some are funny about it.

However I have just spoken to a very nice yard owner and he didn't see a problem. His fences are all electric although of course she can get to the posts.  She would be turned out in a herd of mares - about 5 or so. And the stables are an american barn system so quite sociable for her.

I know I can control it in the stable but out in the field she would have to wear a collar coz of the other liveries. 

If I do get her I will change her diet and feed a lot of fibre, adlib hay etc and I am going to try H's Mum's Coligone and see how that helps. 

Fingers crossed - am talking to the owner tomorrow!


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