# Copper Deficiency



## spottydottypony (3 March 2013)

Speaking to a lady on the yard i have realized my pony may have a copper deficiency. He is a black Fell pony but recently he has orange toned streaks running from his tear duct down his face. I researched this and found it looks like a copper deficiency, He has been on Spillers Feed Balancer for a few months and hay. Does anyone know of any really good supplements to combat this. I dont want to feed copper seperatley as this is not good when overdosed.


----------



## Erin (3 March 2013)

http://shop.forageplus.com/epages/es137718.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/es137718/Products/FPS


----------



## ItsJem (3 March 2013)

My liver chestnut mare had a copper deficiency and developed numerous white spots as well as loss of pigment around her eyes. I gave her the recommended dose of "Cuppra" until the pigment returned and she has been fine since!


----------



## spottydottypony (3 March 2013)

Thank you Erin that sounds great !! Im off to research Cuppra too.


----------



## Goldenstar (3 March 2013)

Coppertriton is another.


----------



## Dry Rot (3 March 2013)

My land is deficient in copper and cobalt so instead of Yellow Rockies, Red Rockies put out in the field which have copper included. 

Lambs used to get a reddish tinge to the wool and I noticed it in a foal this year when I forgot to put a block out.

If I remember correctly, copper deficiency causes poor growth in young stock.


----------



## lachlanandmarcus (4 March 2013)

I would get the soil and grass tested and or consulted a vet before supplementing for copper, because if on the off chance you are wrong, extra copper can be harmful.


----------



## criso (4 March 2013)

The ideal is to go down the analysis route however if this is not possible,  look at the forageplus off the peg balancers or the progressive earth ones on ebay.

They contain reasonable but safe levels of copper (and other minerals) but crucially don't contain manganese and iron which a lot of other balancers do.  These two can block the uptake of copper so you need to avoid them.


----------



## Dry Rot (4 March 2013)

Ask your farming next door neighbours if there are any known soil deficiencies in your area. That would be cheaper than getting your soil tested.


----------



## StoptheCavalry (4 March 2013)

Sorry to hi-jack but I have a copper related question..... My horse and another at our yard (our two are the only 2 out together, and very small yard) both have sun bleached streaks in their tails which I'm told is related to copper deficiency. I moved there in October and have noticed my horses un-shod feet have gone a little flatter since moving there, again this can possibly be related to copper deficiency (Other horses feet are also quite flat but she has always been on this yard so difficult to tell what the reason is) 

The farmer has sheep and cattle and has had the fields tested and is convinced there is no copper deficiency in the land..... so my question is when they test the land is it a general test or would they have just checked the levels contained were suitable for cows and sheep and so it is possible our horses aren't getting enough.

I am currently feeding pro hoof which contains a small amount of copper and so as per previous posts don't really want to feed extra if it's not necessary.


----------



## amandap (4 March 2013)

It's the forage or grass that has to be tested. Soil samples will tell the health of the soil. Even if copper is in the soil it doesn't mean the plants are able to take it up if ph or balance is out.
Forage plus balancers are based on average forage analysis from all over UK and copper, zinc etc. are consistently found to be low. Iron and manganese often high. Iron can inhibit copper uptake and iron is generally everywhere including water so is not a common deficiency. Scroll down to iron on this merck page. http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/182606.htm

If forage analysis is out a good quality balancer is the next best thing imo.


----------



## Kat (4 March 2013)

StoptheCavalry said:



			Sorry to hi-jack but I have a copper related question..... My horse and another at our yard (our two are the only 2 out together, and very small yard) both have sun bleached streaks in their tails which I'm told is related to copper deficiency. I moved there in October and have noticed my horses un-shod feet have gone a little flatter since moving there, again this can possibly be related to copper deficiency (Other horses feet are also quite flat but she has always been on this yard so difficult to tell what the reason is) 

The farmer has sheep and cattle and has had the fields tested and is convinced there is no copper deficiency in the land..... so my question is when they test the land is it a general test or would they have just checked the levels contained were suitable for cows and sheep and so it is possible our horses aren't getting enough.

I am currently feeding pro hoof which contains a small amount of copper and so as per previous posts don't really want to feed extra if it's not necessary.
		
Click to expand...

If your grass and/or hay/haylage is not low in copper but is high in iron or manganese this can cause copper deficiency as the iron or manganese blocks the uptake of copper. Pro hoof doesn't contain much copper so you might need to buy the copper from pro-earth and add a bit extra.


----------



## amandap (4 March 2013)

Kat said:



			If your grass and/or hay/haylage is not low in copper but is high in iron or manganese this can cause copper deficiency as the iron or manganese blocks the uptake of copper. Pro hoof doesn't contain much copper so you might need to buy the copper from pro-earth and add a bit extra.
		
Click to expand...

Yes or switch to one of the Forage Plus ones which have higher levels of copper.
I am using the new hoof health one as I want the lysine etc. as well.


----------



## StoptheCavalry (4 March 2013)

Kat said:



			If your grass and/or hay/haylage is not low in copper but is high in iron or manganese this can cause copper deficiency as the iron or manganese blocks the uptake of copper. Pro hoof doesn't contain much copper so you might need to buy the copper from pro-earth and add a bit extra.
		
Click to expand...

I think I may ask what the actual results are in that case. Just wasn't sure if they think all is well for the cows and sheep but obviously all have different needs. Sure I can get these results from google but what does overdose on copper actually do?


----------



## lachlanandmarcus (4 March 2013)

StoptheCavalry said:



			Sorry to hi-jack but I have a copper related question..... My horse and another at our yard (our two are the only 2 out together, and very small yard) both have sun bleached streaks in their tails which I'm told is related to copper deficiency. I moved there in October and have noticed my horses un-shod feet have gone a little flatter since moving there, again this can possibly be related to copper deficiency (Other horses feet are also quite flat but she has always been on this yard so difficult to tell what the reason is) 

The farmer has sheep and cattle and has had the fields tested and is convinced there is no copper deficiency in the land..... so my question is when they test the land is it a general test or would they have just checked the levels contained were suitable for cows and sheep and so it is possible our horses aren't getting enough.

I am currently feeding pro hoof which contains a small amount of copper and so as per previous posts don't really want to feed extra if it's not necessary.
		
Click to expand...

Cattle require more copper than either sheep or horses do. So if it was tested and found to have sufficient for copper for cattle then there should be plenty for horses.


----------



## StoptheCavalry (4 March 2013)

lachlanandmarcus said:



			Cattle require more copper than either sheep or horses do. So if it was tested and found to have sufficient for copper for cattle then there should be plenty for horses.
		
Click to expand...

That's interesting thank you, and has now thrown my theory out the window. Maybe the other bits are just a coincidence then. Having said that we haven't had grass for months now and they are all having the haylage cut from the same fields, wonder if this lacks the copper.... Can levels differ field to field or is it more area to area? Sorry for all the questions


----------



## lachlanandmarcus (4 March 2013)

It would normally be an area thing but if you are on the boundary between rocks / soil types it could change, normally if that was the case the fields would show the differing characteristics in grass/ crop growth. The only thing I don't know is whether the horse could have a medical condition which would inhibit uptake or whether there is a high level of other minerals which are preventing horses in particular from up taking the copper: ie if these were the case there could be lots of copper but horse not able to get it / use it.


----------



## Fintan (5 March 2013)

What is the average zinc, manganese and iron concentration in UK hay? 

Would be interesting.


----------



## maccachic (5 March 2013)

Deficiencys can be related to an excess or deficiency of another mineral.  I would start with a good balanced multi vitamin (not all are created equal you need to do an as fed analysis to work it out).


----------



## criso (5 March 2013)

Fintan said:



			What is the average zinc, manganese and iron concentration in UK hay? 

Would be interesting.
		
Click to expand...

I have had 3 analyses done in different yards but in a similar areas and have found a huge variation in those and other minerals. However manganese has varied from slightly high to off the scale, zinc the lower end of the spectrum, iron has varied but never needed adding.

I couldn't give you am accurate average for herts never mind the UK


----------



## Fintan (5 March 2013)

Great forum here. 
It looks like that UK people are far better aducatet in nutrition than the people in France or Ireland. 

Did anyone try a hair mineral analyses here?


----------



## criso (5 March 2013)

lachlanandmarcus said:



			Cattle require more copper than either sheep or horses do. So if it was tested and found to have sufficient for copper for cattle then there should be plenty for horses.
		
Click to expand...

Quick question, are cattle and sheep subject to the same inhibiting properties of manganese and iron as horses are when it comes to copper and zinc?


----------



## lachlanandmarcus (5 March 2013)

criso said:



			Quick question, are cattle and sheep subject to the same inhibiting properties of manganese and iron as horses are when it comes to copper and zinc?
		
Click to expand...

Not sure about sheep (ironic since I have 18 of them )) but yes cattle are subject to the same inhibition. Not just iron or zinc (which should only really be an issue if the soil is pretty low in copper) but also Molybdenum which combines with sulphur in the soil and Forms a substance which inhibits copper absorption ESP on grassland which has been fertilised with artificial fertilisers as some contain molybdenum as it increases nitrogen availability for the grass and also land that has been limed.


----------



## Dry Rot (5 March 2013)

I wonder if we are not all falling victims to the advertisements and sales pitch of the manufacturers of these "supplements"?

How on earth did they manage to breed so many horses down through the centuries when they were the main means of transport and source of power?

The only problems I noticed with using Red Rockies and no other supplements is that the damn youngsters grow so fast!


----------



## cptrayes (5 March 2013)

Dry Rot said:



			I wonder if we are not all falling victims to the advertisements and sales pitch of the manufacturers of these "supplements"?
		
Click to expand...

No, because they are not advertised. Forageplus and Progressive Earth products are selling by word of mouth on their results.

And I don't feed anything with a label. I supplement copper bioplex from the cheapest source that I can find it. My horses' feet are much more concave since I started, having found out that because my land was high in iron and manganese that would prevent copper absorption.




			How on earth did they manage to breed so many horses down through the centuries when they were the main means of transport and source of power?

Click to expand...

1. We didn't know.
2. We expected the horses to die young. 15 was an old horse when I was young. Over 15 was uninsurable.
3. We shod to cover up footiness.
4. Grazing and hay were meadow, not cow pasture 100% ryegrass and horses could browse what they needed. No-one kept horses in tiny paddocks, the rule was one acre per horse plus one acre over.


----------



## cptrayes (5 March 2013)

spottydottypony said:



			Speaking to a lady on the yard i have realized my pony may have a copper deficiency. He is a black Fell pony but recently he has orange toned streaks running from his tear duct down his face. I researched this and found it looks like a copper deficiency, He has been on Spillers Feed Balancer for a few months and hay. Does anyone know of any really good supplements to combat this. I dont want to feed copper seperatley as this is not good when overdosed.
		
Click to expand...


I think he probably just has a blocked tear duct. If he was copper deficient you would see more than bleaching where tears were taking the colour out of his coat.


----------



## Dry Rot (5 March 2013)

cptrayes said:



			(Snipped) No-one kept horses in tiny paddocks, the rule was one acre per horse plus one acre over.
		
Click to expand...

OK, I'll accept that. My 10 are on 30 acres! (But not all at the same time.).


----------



## fatpiggy (6 March 2013)

StoptheCavalry said:



			Sorry to hi-jack but I have a copper related question..... My horse and another at our yard (our two are the only 2 out together, and very small yard) both have sun bleached streaks in their tails which I'm told is related to copper deficiency. I moved there in October and have noticed my horses un-shod feet have gone a little flatter since moving there, again this can possibly be related to copper deficiency (Other horses feet are also quite flat but she has always been on this yard so difficult to tell what the reason is) 

The farmer has sheep and cattle and has had the fields tested and is convinced there is no copper deficiency in the land..... so my question is when they test the land is it a general test or would they have just checked the levels contained were suitable for cows and sheep and so it is possible our horses aren't getting enough.

I am currently feeding pro hoof which contains a small amount of copper and so as per previous posts don't really want to feed extra if it's not necessary.
		
Click to expand...

You've really got me wondering now.  Its too late as my old girl is gone, but after I moved her to the farm where she ended her days, one year she sprouted several extra white spots (she has one large one and a small one already), had a streaky mane and after I took her shoes off for good, seemed very foot sore and the vet commented how thin and pliable her soles were.    TBH I feel a bit bad now


----------



## Fintan (6 March 2013)

@ Dry Rot

Victoms? We make ourself a victom.

The daily requirements for a horse in any situation is long since declared.

But there is a conflict between science and marketing. Marketing is about turnover on as many products as possible and science is about requirements.

It is easy possible to fulfill the requirements of a horse with one product / balancer but moneywise it is not very pleasant for the companys.

Like you can buy apps for the mobile phone (this is the money making part) you can buy apps for feeding.

A 500 KG racehorse in full work for an example has a requirement from 250 mg copper per day (not occasionally by copper shots and apps) and the ratio zinc copper should be somewhere about 3:1. So you need 750 mg zinc with the copper.

And so on. 

Now for marketing reasons or also for the reason of a unprecise production most won`t tell you the exact amount of the ingredient that is in per KG of supplement.

Either they want you to be a believer, or they are not able to produce in such a precision that the product would pass a lab test. If you declare something, is has to be in and this in the exact declared amount. Not less, not more.

The question about horses earlier and today?

Well today we expect the horses to last as long as possible. A good sport horse will come to his best with 10 to 16 years of age.

It takes about 6 - 7 years to produce a top eventer.

Earlier? average lifespan was about 8 years.


----------



## cptrayes (6 March 2013)

Fintan said:



			A 500 KG racehorse in full work for an example has a requirement from 250 mg copper per day (not occasionally by copper shots and apps) and the ratio zinc copper should be somewhere about 3:1. So you need 750 mg zinc with the copper.
		
Click to expand...

If the horses forage and/or grazing are high in iron, manganese and/or molybdenum, then the copper requirement will be much higher. I feed 900mg a day due to iron and manganese overload. It requires that dose to keep my dark brown horse's coat from turning red.


----------



## maccachic (6 March 2013)

Fintan said:



			@ Dry Rot

Like you can buy apps for the mobile phone (this is the money making part) you can buy apps for feeding.

.
		
Click to expand...

There is a programme for feeding not sure if it has been released in the UK yet its called Feed X L (good will bring it up) developed by a nutritionist.


----------



## maccachic (6 March 2013)

Google not good


----------



## Fintan (7 March 2013)

Yes the software sad enough is only as good as the user. Will start with the analyses of the own food like hay and end with the rest.

Its funny, the aussis calculate with different values then for an example NRC, KER, Belgiums or Germans. 

This Feed XL is in relation to others a bit generous with tolerances. 

An overdraught with nearly 100% of protein is with them OK, others will tell you that is hardship. Avoid it. 

IN the nearer future there is a revised edition for requirements from the leading European "Prof. Dr. Nutrition" comming. In the moment they are busy with the last arguments. 

We will see.


----------



## maccachic (7 March 2013)

Pretty sure that program uses the NRC guidelines.  But put 10 nutritionists in a room and you will get 10 different answers   Its like anything start with basic requirements and then tailor for your horse as not every horse is average which is what results are based on.


----------



## Dry Rot (8 March 2013)

Fortunately, my Highland ponies each come with two perfectly functioning kidneys so if anything is in excess in their 100% natural diet, it is excreted or defecated!


----------



## StoptheCavalry (8 March 2013)

The more I read about what I should and shouldn't feed the more confused I get!!  My horse seems happy, healthy and alert should I keep worrying or just do as I'm doing?


----------



## maggiesmum (9 March 2013)

Cptrayes - do you add any extra zinc with the copper?


----------



## cptrayes (9 March 2013)

I don't, no. I have read many times that I should, but I have also researched zinc and found that it is usually plentiful in the horse's diet. I have never noticed any problem from not supplementing zinc, but then again I don't know what the symptoms of zinc deficiency would be. In humans, it can cause anorexia and that certainly doesn't apply to any horse I've kept


----------



## cptrayes (9 March 2013)

Dry Rot said:



			Fortunately, my Highland ponies each come with two perfectly functioning kidneys so if anything is in excess in their 100% natural diet, it is excreted or defecated!

Click to expand...

This is not correct, sorry  If molybdenum, iron or manganese are in excess, then they latch onto the spaces that should be being used for the uptake of copper, and the horse can become copper deficient. You can see this in cows too, where a black coat goes red/brown.

Iron and manganese are overloaded in a very high proportion of forage analyses being done at the moment.


----------



## cptrayes (9 March 2013)

StoptheCavalry said:



			The more I read about what I should and shouldn't feed the more confused I get!!  My horse seems happy, healthy and alert should I keep worrying or just do as I'm doing?
		
Click to expand...

If your horse is barefoot with rock crunching feet there is nothing wrong.

If it's shod, you won't know. 

If it's barefoot and footie (except for if it's early days out of shoes) then something needs adjustment and it could be a number of things but we'd normally start with the diet.


----------



## Dry Rot (9 March 2013)

cptrayes said:



			This is not correct, sorry  If molybdenum, iron or manganese are in excess, then they latch onto the spaces that should be being used for the uptake of copper, and the horse can become copper deficient. You can see this in cows too, where a black coat goes red/brown.

Iron and manganese are overloaded in a very high proportion of forage analyses being done at the moment.
		
Click to expand...

Well, excuse me if I don't lose any sleep over it. I'll stick to the recommendation of the local agricultural college until someone proves I've been it all wrong for the last 40 years.


----------



## cptrayes (9 March 2013)

Dry Rot said:



			Well, excuse me if I don't lose any sleep over it. I'll stick to the recommendation of the local agricultural college until someone proves I've been it all wrong for the last 40 years.
		
Click to expand...



Why should you lose sleep? Why should anyone say that you are wrong in what you do with your horses? 

I am not saying that you are wrong with what you do with your horses, but that you are wrong in believing your horses to be completely self-balancing with regard to copper/iron/manganese/molybdenum and calcium/phosphorous. (And if your local agricultural college is teaching its students that horses are completely self balancing with regard to excess mineral intake, then they should be ashamed of themselves, since the calcium/phosphorous problem has been known of for centuries.)  

I'm sorry if it offended you to be corrected, but it matters for horse health that people know that horses on unbalanced grazing/forage can develop serious heath problems.

If you have healthy  horses then you have balanced grazing/forage. Not all of us are as lucky, my manganese levels are sky high in the land and the water. And it would be stupid of me to carry on believing that my horses were completely self balancing, whereas you don't need to worry. 

As a matter of interest, are your horses shod?


----------



## StoptheCavalry (9 March 2013)

cptrayes said:



			If your horse is barefoot with rock crunching feet there is nothing wrong.

If it's shod, you won't know. 

If it's barefoot and footie (except for if it's early days out of shoes) then something needs adjustment and it could be a number of things but we'd normally start with the diet.
		
Click to expand...

He is barefoot has been since I got him with the best rock crunching feet but I have noticed his hinds particularly becoming flatter since moving to my new yard. There is no difference to his way of going but wouldn't want to not do something now that may save a problem in future. Guess only time will tell.


----------



## cptrayes (9 March 2013)

StoptheCavalry said:



			He is barefoot has been since I got him with the best rock crunching feet but I have noticed his hinds particularly becoming flatter since moving to my new yard. There is no difference to his way of going but wouldn't want to not do something now that may save a problem in future. Guess only time will tell.
		
Click to expand...

Interesting .....

I think I'd want him on a high copper/low iron "barefoot" supplement like Pro Foot, just in case, but it isn't cheap  (no worse than any other though). Any red cows that should be black near you??  

Is the hay/haylage "better" quality in your new yard? That could do it too.


----------



## criso (9 March 2013)

Zinc helps with the immune system 

We are in the London clay basin both this yard and previous ones so mud fever is a particular problem round here on all the yards I have been on.  I was quite smug as since I started supplemented zinc I had less problems than others on the yard. Then I moved yards to a very high manganese area and within two weeks was having terrible problems.  Am now supplementing according to these levels and it's better.   The same horse used to have terrible problems with allergies and nearly everything brought him out in hives but touch wood hasn't had a bad reaction for three years.


----------



## cptrayes (9 March 2013)

criso said:



			Zinc helps with the immune system 

We are in the London clay basin both this yard and previous ones so mud fever is a particular problem round here on all the yards I have been on.  I was quite smug as since I started supplemented zinc I had less problems than others on the yard. Then I moved yards to a very high manganese area and within two weeks was having terrible problems.  Am now supplementing according to these levels and it's better.   The same horse used to have terrible problems with allergies and nearly everything brought him out in hives but touch wood hasn't had a bad reaction for three years.
		
Click to expand...

Interesting! I took on one with appalling sweet itch, had to be rugged indoors and out. It disappeared as soon as he was on the diet my others are on and has now moved on from me and never had it since either.


----------



## criso (9 March 2013)

And it's not like I wasn't supplementing at all.   When I moved I kept the copper, zinc magnesium and phosphorous the same as the previous yard which was averagely low while I was waiting for the analysis results.

My other horse got an abscess in his jaw after a month there which may be unrelated but again could have been exacerbated by a weak immune system.


----------



## Lindadownunder (4 May 2018)

cptrayes said:



			This is not correct, sorry  If molybdenum, iron or manganese are in excess, then they latch onto the spaces that should be being used for the uptake of copper, and the horse can become copper deficient. You can see this in cows too, where a black coat goes red/brown.

Iron and manganese are overloaded in a very high proportion of forage analyses being done at the moment.
		
Click to expand...

Hello cptrayes - I was very interested to read your post(s) regarding copper supplementation. I have exactly the same problem going on here in New Zealand. I would love to know your exact feed recipe as I've been dabbling and not quite there yet. I also have high calcium blood levels, low phosphorus and high bilirubin. High iron and manganese pasture levels too.


----------



## Ruby's Mum (5 May 2018)

I'm afraid you will see that cptrayes username is greyed out, which means she is no longer on the forum, so you won't get a reply from her.


----------



## ycbm (5 May 2018)

Ruby's Mum said:



			I'm afraid you will see that cptrayes username is greyed out, which means she is no longer on the forum, so you won't get a reply from her.
		
Click to expand...

I'm here 

I started by feeding copper and zinc at the rates in the supplements sold in this country by Forage Plus and Progressive Earth. I had blood tests done which still showed high iron, so I increased the copper and zinc until that came down. 

I feed straight sulphates, currently 6 grams of copper sulphate and twelve of zinc sulphate,  because they are cheapest, but you should source food quality if you are going to do that. 

Have a look for an online course by Dr Kellon, who is the world expert in mineral balancing in horses. I'm not sure what the answer is to your high calcium levels.



PS you will see that several years ago when this thread dates from, I did not feed zinc. I now do, because I learned that it was necessary to balance the copper.


----------



## Lindadownunder (5 May 2018)

ycbm said:



			I'm here 

I started by feeding copper and zinc at the rates in the supplements sold in this country by Forage Plus and Progressive Earth. I had blood tests done which still showed high iron, so I increased the copper and zinc until that came down. 

I feed straight sulphates, currently 6 grams of copper sulphate and twelve of zinc sulphate,  because they are cheapest, but you should source food quality if you are going to do that. 

Have a look for an online course by Dr Kellon, who is the world expert in mineral balancing in horses. I'm not sure what the answer is to your high calcium levels.



PS you will see that several years ago when this thread dates from, I did not feed zinc. I now do, because I learned that it was necessary to balance the copper.
		
Click to expand...

Thank you so much. It's been a real battle getting to the bottom of this issue. I've had terrible skin issues, pale gums, lethagy, the list goes on and vets (3) were not able to nut it out. I've been chipping away (trial and error) and this is the best they've been. Forage Plus were enormously helpful and suggested monosodium phosphate to balance the high calcium (in our grass and water) but as we're not able to get anything that resembles the Forage Plus balancers here I've had a laboratory going on in my feed shed!! I will head to the feed store tomorrow and trial your recipe. Thanks again for replying. It's an enormous relief to read a post that relates exactly to your own issues. You're a star!


----------



## Ruby's Mum (5 May 2018)

ycbm said:



			I'm here.
		
Click to expand...

Ah ha, well hello there *waves*.


----------



## ycbm (5 May 2018)

Ruby's Mum said:



			Ah ha, well hello there *waves*.
		
Click to expand...

Waves back 

LDU, you're welcome, glad to help.


----------



## Lindadownunder (5 May 2018)

One more question, the iron blood test you ran, is that a standard test? I've read on various sites there is a special iron test to determine if iron levels are really high. Are you familiar with this?


----------



## ycbm (5 May 2018)

Lindadownunder said:



			One more question, the iron blood test you ran, is that a standard test? I've read on various sites there is a special iron test to determine if iron levels are really high. Are you familiar with this?
		
Click to expand...

It is a normal test in cows but there are no specific tables for minerals in blood in horses, so they make a best guess from the cow tables.


----------



## Lindadownunder (5 May 2018)

thank you


----------



## Lindadownunder (6 May 2018)

another one........what feed to you feed and in what quantities? (if horses are at grass).  I have gone back to basics, not much feed 1 x dipper chaff, 2 cups oats and 2 cups coprice bran, supplements along with adlib hay and grass. Your thoughts please?


----------



## ycbm (6 May 2018)

Lindadownunder said:



			another one........what feed to you feed and in what quantities? (if horses are at grass).  I have gone back to basics, not much feed 1 x dipper chaff, 2 cups oats and 2 cups coprice bran, supplements along with adlib hay and grass. Your thoughts please?
		
Click to expand...

Same as you. Add lib forage. I feed wheat bran, oats, oil if they need more calories, depending on the horse. My fat one gets only bran, enough to get him to eat the minerals. I'm giving up chaff as I can't see the point of it. I have to supplement calcium with the bran because of the phosphorous imbalance, but you won't have that problem!


----------



## Goldenstar (6 May 2018)

Just adding I owned one horse who could adsorb copper it took us a while to work this out once the vet had the light bulb moment she injected the horse with cattle copper within days the horse was improving it was like magic .


----------

