# low ringbone, when to call it a day??



## ponykiss69 (18 May 2010)

Hi All
My beautiful boy has low ringbone at the age of 7 and without two Danolin a day is hopping at walk.
I love this boy, I am angry it is left to me to have to decide what to do with anothers life.
I hate the idea my desicion will mean another will loose his, but I also know that he is not going to get better and cannot tell what pain he is in.
Right now he is eating and looks amazing, do you think I should accept that it is time to say goodbye before the pain gets worse, or wait till he looks like he is in more pain.
The responsibility of doing the right thing is driving me nuts!!
Does anyone have any comments, or experiences they can share, or any cures?
s


----------



## Amymay (18 May 2010)

How long ago was he diagnosed, and how long has he been on the 2 danillon a day??

What is your vets opinion?


----------



## ponykiss69 (18 May 2010)

Hiya
Vet says to up the dosage (have done to 2 a day) had 6 vets look at x rays, all say its pretty advanced. He is ok at walk right now, but was pretty bad the other day even on pain killers. He is eating and is a little bit grumpy, but ok otherwise. He cannot really move allot and avoids moving, if he can. Vet says see how it goes, but it is getting to me that there seems no cure, nor anyway forward as he is hopping at walk its pretty destressing and I feel cruel when others mention he is lame as I am doing what I can, but its not working..
ta


----------



## Amymay (18 May 2010)

How long ago was he diagnosed, and how long has he been on the 2 danillon a day??


----------



## ponykiss69 (18 May 2010)

Hiya
Diagnosed in December last year, he completly broke down and he had an injection into the joint, this is meant to last 16months, but it needs to be doen again, vet says can only be done so many times.
He has been on Danilon 2 times a day for over a week..
ta


----------



## Amymay (18 May 2010)

ponykiss69 said:



			Hiya
Diagnosed in December last year, he completly broke down and he had an injection into the joint, this is meant to last 16months, but it needs to be doen again, vet says can only be done so many times.
He has been on Danilon 2 times a day for over a week..
ta
		
Click to expand...

Given the lack of improvement, his general unhappiness and unwillingness to move around - I would have him put down.


----------



## ponykiss69 (18 May 2010)

Hi, that took my breath away..
Thanks for your honesty and frankness..
I think you are right, he is not moving around even on the Danolin, he does not really like to walk up to the top of the field..
Its getting my head round it all, but I will be sure tho make sure I do not leave him while I make up my mind..
Thanks again, love your cats by the way..


----------



## jeanette0403 (18 May 2010)

Hi
I had my horse put to sleep 3 weeks ago and she had ringbone.  She was also x rayed in December and we decided to box rest her as she was so happy in the stable and then put pads on her feet to help.  She did actually come sound and looked so great i started to walk her out in hand and she was so happy she went out in the paddock as the vet said we had to try and she went lame within 2 days and was in so much pain.  Before she wasn't in pain and was really happy as soon as i saw this she was put to sleep straight away as i was not going to let her suffer.  She was 15 so had a really great life.
Hate to say it but if your boy is already on pain relief then it's prob the kindest thing to put him to sleep it will only get worse.  I know it is the most heartbreaking decision but i knew it was the right one.
x


----------



## Amymay (18 May 2010)

Hi, that took my breath away..
Thanks for your honesty and frankness..
		
Click to expand...

I have had two horses put down, one soley due to arthritis, the other it was a contributing factor.

I wouldn't hesitate to do it again.


----------



## princess+dude (18 May 2010)

Reading this reminded me of exactly what i went through just over a year ago!! My boy was diagnosed with both high and low ringbone... unfortunately it wasn't as straight forward with him as he also tore a ligament and chipped his sesamoid bone but after nearly 9 months of TLC and hard work he was put to sleep with his first diagnosis of ringbone!! Its a really horrible thing to go through and after watching him get worse was heart breaking!! But in the end I knew he had had enough and didnt want it anymore!!

You will know whats best.... 

My thoughts are with you x


----------



## ponykiss69 (18 May 2010)

Thanks all for your thoughts..
So sorry to hear about all of you having to go through this..
Its tough, but it has helped me understand my mixed feelings, one not wanting him to be in pain and of course that thought, of what if he got better, which is of course not going to happen.
Thanks again


----------



## BBH (18 May 2010)

The hardest part of all this is that he is only seven and hasn't had a full life. My own horse dropped dead at the same age and I felt so angry cos he was cheated out of his life.

However In your case as soon as I read that your horse was reluctant to move I thought have him PTS because a life lived in pain and limitation is no life imo.

I'm so sorry what an awful predicament. The other thing is that no-one will judge you as you know your horse best.


----------



## Oberon (18 May 2010)

I really feel for you. What an awful situation to be in.

If the vet is saying see how it goes, then maybe the situation isn't as bad as it seems just now?

I certainly would not advise you to have your horse put down over a public forum without even seeing it in person.

Have another chat with your vet - perhaps there is an avenue not yet tried?


----------



## ponykiss69 (18 May 2010)

i agree, I am going to take my vets advise..
However it is good to see what opinions are, for good or bad as I am torn between head and heart.
thanks to all for replying...


----------



## Marchtime (18 May 2010)

What a tough decision to make.
Whilst you need to take your vets advise I have personally found a lot aren't always willing to advise you outright to pts. I think they don't want to unduly influence.
I had my TB Sammy pts at 8yrs old and it was heartbreaking because he was so young. With hindsight though it was definitely the right thing to do.
If your horse is grumpy and unwilling to move it sounds like he is in a fair amount of pain.
There is no right or wrong answer in these cases but you have to trust yourself to do what's right for your horse.


----------



## RooRoo (19 May 2010)

Hi, my mare was diagnosed with ringbone at 13, she was turned away for 3 years on pain killers.  She was gradually brought back into work when she was 16 and was on bute daily.  We then visited the vets when she was 17 and after x rays were told the ringbone had fused although the rest of her leg joints are pretty shot! She's now on danillon every other day in the winter when the ground is soft and everyday in the summer while the ground is hard. She leads a pretty full life now at 20 and we now do a little jumping (only on a surface) some dressage (not overly well) and gentle hacking.  I'm not sure if this helps you at all but sometimes things work out well and there is hope.  It's distressing seeing a horse suffering and the kindest thing we can do is put them out of suffering, I may just of been lucky but following the vets advice and having some corrective shoeing worked for us... what ever your decision its going to be tough...


----------



## Darkly_Dreaming_Dex (19 May 2010)

RooRoo said:



			Hi, my mare was diagnosed with ringbone at 13, she was turned away for 3 years on pain killers.  She was gradually brought back into work when she was 16 and was on bute daily.  We then visited the vets when she was 17 and after x rays were told the ringbone had fused although the rest of her leg joints are pretty shot! She's now on danillon every other day in the winter when the ground is soft and everyday in the summer while the ground is hard. She leads a pretty full life now at 20 and we now do a little jumping (only on a surface) some dressage (not overly well) and gentle hacking.  I'm not sure if this helps you at all but sometimes things work out well and there is hope.  It's distressing seeing a horse suffering and the kindest thing we can do is put them out of suffering, I may just of been lucky but following the vets advice and having some corrective shoeing worked for us... what ever your decision its going to be tough...
		
Click to expand...

Similar experience to mine^^


----------



## Amymay (19 May 2010)

I certainly would not advise you to have your horse put down over a public forum without even seeing it in person.
		
Click to expand...

Sorry - I seem to have been misunderstood - I wasn't advising horse to be put down, merely giving my opinion on what I would do.  I should have been clearer.

I had a horse with low non articular ringbone.  She was never medicated once retired to the field - and remained field sound until another injury forced my hand.

My horse was retired in the field for 18 months - and showed no sign of pain or discomfort.  Had she been medicated for 18 months, with the dosage required to keep her comfortable needing to be increased then she would have been pts a lot earlier.  A horse (imo) that is uncofmortable on 2 bute/danillon a day long term is one that a tough decision needs to be made on.

Obviously (or perhaps not....) consultation with the vet should take place.  But it's always a good idea to go in to these discussions with a decision in your head (again imo).

Apols OP.


----------



## ponykiss69 (19 May 2010)

Not to worry, seems there are allot of people who get the wrong and of the stick on this site!


----------



## christine48 (22 May 2010)

To be honest if it is advanced at such an early stage then the kindest thing would e to have him PTS. We have these animals and it is our responsibility to ensure they aren't suffering and have some quality of life. If he is hopping lame in walk then he is in a lot of pain.
We had  to make this decision this week, our 22 yr old mare who we'd had 20 yrs got laminitis due to cushins and equine metabolic syndrome. She was still in pain on danilon and would have had to spend the rest of her life on drugs, restricted food and turnout - no life she didn't deserve that.


----------



## brighteyes (22 May 2010)

You need to exhaust all the avenues you feel it sensible and reasonable to try, whilst bearing in mind the comfort of your horse.  The tragedy is his youth.  If it is not humane or practicable (cost or facility-wise) then the answer is there and really you only have to decide when, not if.  It's a really poo place to be and you have my sympathy.

Amymay says it how it is but is often right in what she says.  Oh that we all found it so simple.


----------



## _daisy_ (22 May 2010)

may i just add that all may not be lost with your horse. 
I had the awful news from my vet when she diagnosed one of my mares with ringbone at the grand age of 10. she was on and off chronically lame. remedial farrier nor vet treatment worked (including 6monthly adequan injections, synequin joint supplement plus painkillers) She was in foal and i decided that come weaning the best thing i could do was have her PTS.
a friend asked if she could take my horse and try natural barefoot trim on her as a last resort. well it worked for my mare (im not saying it works for everyone but its worth a shot - youve got nothing to loose and everything to gain should it work). She came sound within 4 weeks. she is still with me now at the age of 16. isnt lame. isnt on any pain relief etc. im so glad i let my friend try the barefoot trim she does (my mare had had 2 farriers to her, tried both shoes and grass trims but neither worked). i dont have to worry about the what ifs now. Shes back in work and very happy.


----------



## brighteyes (23 May 2010)

I'd forgotten about barefoot - someone I know had a mare with ringbone and she took her horse's shoes off.  Five years later, the mare is still here and returned to work.


----------



## ChunkyMonkey25 (23 May 2010)

I was just about to post something very similar.  I have been in your shoes for the past month or so.  My boy pulled his check ligament out of his DDFT last August, been on box rest and field rest, then came back into work March and went lame in both fronts and diagnosed with sidebone, navicular changes, athritic changes on pastern and starts of coffin joint athritis!  Just paid £125 for 2 front shoes and although not lame has gone off his food and just stands in back of box/field looking unhappy - he is 16 so older than yours but it doesn't make it any easier.  

One of my friends told me last night that as owners we know when the right time is and I think I know what I have to do for the best but it never makes it easier - i'm crying just thinking about it.

Good luck and keep strength in your decision.


----------



## Cello_song (23 May 2010)

My horse is 10 and has been diagnosed this week with ringbone. He was also diagnosed with spavins in march. He's had steroid injections in to his pasterns this week and is on 2 bute a day. I am meant to be riding him at walk for 30 mins a day which i started on friday but he feels uncomfortable walking down hill, on the road and on stony tracks (none of which I can avoid to get to grass). 

So i am also wondering what to do since he still seems uncomfortable when ridden on the 2 bute - persevere with vets, retire, PTS?

Keep us posted on your boy, I wish there was a magic cure! 
xx


----------



## Daisychain (23 May 2010)

Do you know what i would do, due to his age, he has youth on his side, which is always a good thing.

I would take off his shoes, get a good trim where his frog is allowed to contact the ground again.

Turn him away for a year, look after him and dont worry about him.  Just see if his youth and mother nature can find away to make him comfortable and usable again.

I am fed up with hearing how people have their horses pts without really giving nature and time a chance to work.

I was advised to have my own navicular horse pts last year, he is sound and barefoot now, a year later.

If after a year, he was still as bad, then perhaps you would need to reavaluate.  But not at this stage.


----------



## Twirly (23 May 2010)

Daisychain said:



			I am fed up with hearing how people have their horses pts without really giving nature and time a chance to work.
		
Click to expand...

How wonderfully supportive of you


----------



## Daisychain (23 May 2010)

Twirly said:



			How wonderfully supportive of you
		
Click to expand...

Afraid the truth can be hard to swallow...


----------



## Twirly (23 May 2010)

Truth??...having nursed 9 yr horse through 18 months of hell with lameness in all four legs trying every treatment under the sun advised by the vet and vet hospital, then finding spinal problems...treated and failed...only to lose her with high ringbone that didn't respond to treatment and after major surgery only four months previously wasn't prepared to put her through any more with arthrodesis and denerving, retired her fully - although she hadn't been in proper work for a year at this point, brought her home to be my paddock pet and watched her slowly break down in front of my eyes quite frankly you can take your "truth" and shove it right up your @rse.

She should have been pts about 6 months before she was - and she suffered far longer than she should have...because there was always something else the vets could try...and none of it would have saved her

Oh and for your information she lived out all her life, never had shoes on and was trimmed by an EP for 5 years (as are all my horses)

Sometimes there is no other way and your ignorant throwaway statement just smacks of arrogance and a complete lack of empathy. Navicular can be helped by going barefoot if the horse has imbalanced feet and shoes...most ringbone cannot depending if it's high or low and articular or not.

It is EXCRUCIATING for the horse


----------



## Daisychain (24 May 2010)

Quite frankly, you can shove your own views up your arse too.

I was responding about this particular horse, NOT YOURS, which by all accounts was severly disabled.

My own horse, i was advised to pts.  Good job i didnt.

Get of your high horse, your not the only one who has been through it, its very tough, but i will still stand by the fact 'what time and rest wont heal', nothing else will.

You should re read again what i have written, and absorb it more accurately.


----------



## Twirly (24 May 2010)

Going by what the OP's posted her horse is not going to get better - not if it's got advanced ringbone, particularly if it's articular - which as I said is excruciating for a horse due to the area it affects - overgrowth of bone on a joint with very little space between it, means you have bone grating on bone with every step and if you're happy to advise letting a horse that has already stopped acting like a normal horse on a reasonably high dose of painkillers to tough it out with a condition like this then quite frankly I despair.

If it's non articular there is more hope, but articular? Unless you are looking at putting  a horse through the seriously invasive procedures offered for this condition the pain will get worse. My mare was on 6 Danilon at day within a month of her last steroid injection into her pastern failing ......7 weeks after it was done - just like the OP's horse mine didn't get anything like long enough relief from it

I suggest you read what she's written again, compare it with my experience which is also with ringbone - not navicular which as I said CAN and is treated by going barefoot (although yes I've been there with that too) It was the ringbone that crippled her - she could have happily pootled around for years if it hadn't been for that. It is a condition where doing nothing is NOT an option.

As I copied your post word for word it doesn't come much clearer does it, it's actually downright offensive....you *are* being extremely arrogant and showing no empathy for the OP's situation or from what you posted anybody else that has had to take the terrible decision to have their horse pts due to a similar situation. Hence my response to you..both times. 
What the OP needs here is sympathy with her situation - Waving the magic barefoot wand doesn't always work and as much of an advocate for barefoot as I am,at the risk of being equally offensive,  in situations like this I'm fed up to the back teeth of it being touted as a cure all......it most certainly isn't

OP I'm sorry that this has degenerated into a slanging match. In response to your post be guided by what your vet/s say, but as you know the horse and can see any changes in his behaviour on a daily basis, you'll know what to do as the best thing for him x


----------



## Happytohack (24 May 2010)

I am facing a similar situation to the OP.  In fact a few weeks ago, I actually called the knackerman as my horse was so bad.  However, he seemed a little better the next day and I cancelled the call-out.  He was diagnosed 3 years ago as an 8 year old.  The joint was medicated, remedial shoes on, pads, joint supplements - you name it, we probably tried it.  He is happiest in his stable on rubber matting & thick bedding.  Is currently on 2 danilon a day and able to potter about the field.  But he walks as if his feet are too heavy for him.  I am trying barefoot as a last resort.  The hard ground at the moment is not helping, and I just go day to day.  It is a terrible decision to have to make.


----------



## Summer Sun (4 June 2010)

I'm a bit behind the times on this one - but had to comment. Daisy chain i hope you never have the devastation of a horse with this kind of Ringbone.
I'm afraid i have to agree with twirly that the pain to the horse is excruciating and to think that this disease can be treated with a bit of barefoot trimming truly does 'smack of ignorance'

I spent 9 years trying to keep my beautiful horse sound enough to live a happy life until it got too much for him at 16 . When up to 4 bute a day was doing nothing after years of steroid injections, supplements - you name it - i knew nothign in the world was going to save him. I even had to take him for MRI just to confirm to myself what i already know. 

OP i really feel for you - its a dreadful decision to make - as if like mine your  horse probably looks in perfect health. mine had never looked better than when i had to say goodbye. Seeing him crippled when he had always been so feisty and brave was heartbreaking. 

I hope it all works out for you. I know theres always the surgery option but it wasn't to be for me. i couldnt put him through all the pain for an uncertain outcome and his other leg was going the same way. 

Good luck with whatever you decide 
xx


----------



## Daisychain (4 June 2010)

I dont think for one minute that the horse can be cured by barefoot alone, and i have not stated that at all.  I would do that as preperation for letting the horse down.

I purely commented on what i would do.... She has stated that the horse eats and drinks and looks well in himself.

I have actually known many horses that have been pts, and many horses which have been given a considerable amout of time off to come back and do a job.

Twirly is comparing her horse to this case, which is a compleately different one altogether,
as i also stated give him a year and then reavaluate, as the horse is only 7yrs old.  

I didnt want a slanging match, but this is what i would do.  Just to give the body chance to settle down and heal.

I think you have the wrong end of the stick.  It is a bloody horrible descision to have something put down, when there could be a possibility he may come better.  I personally wouldnt want that on my concience without giving him/her time first.


----------



## Rueysmum (4 June 2010)

I'm not wishing to put the cat among the pigeons here, but in my experience of a horse with an arthritic knee, which is not dissimilar to ringbone (including a severe lateral deviation and very knobbly knee extensions), the worst of his pain was when the arthritis was forming i.e. in the early days.

At that time he was on up to four Danilon a day for brief periods, i.e. one to two days, which was then reduced to more reasonable levels, generally one a day.

He is now, three years later, on a half to two thirds of a sachet a day which keeps him sound and happy.

It is distressing to see your horse in pain, but if I were you, OP, I would discuss with your vet a time limit combined with a gradual reduction in the level of pain killers needed to keep him sound and take it from there.

Many people on this forum tend to see a horse as a mere commodity, rather than a friend/riding horse/pet, and are all too quick to dispatch the horse without giving it a chance.  If a horse were in constant pain and had no chance of quality of life, then I agree that the owner should do the decent thing, but not in haste, as the rest of one's life is an awfully long time to think of the what ifs.


----------



## Daisychain (5 June 2010)

Rueysmum said:



			I'm not wishing to put the cat among the pigeons here, but in my experience of a horse with an arthritic knee, which is not dissimilar to ringbone (including a severe lateral deviation and very knobbly knee extensions), the worst of his pain was when the arthritis was forming i.e. in the early days.

At that time he was on up to four Danilon a day for brief periods, i.e. one to two days, which was then reduced to more reasonable levels, generally one a day.

He is now, three years later, on a half to two thirds of a sachet a day which keeps him sound and happy.

It is distressing to see your horse in pain, but if I were you, OP, I would discuss with your vet a time limit combined with a gradual reduction in the level of pain killers needed to keep him sound and take it from there.

Many people on this forum tend to see a horse as a mere commodity, rather than a friend/riding horse/pet, and are all too quick to dispatch the horse without giving it a chance.  If a horse were in constant pain and had no chance of quality of life, then I agree that the owner should do the decent thing, but not in haste, as the rest of one's life is an awfully long time to think of the what ifs.
		
Click to expand...

Thankyou for that, it is your first point which is very valid, while everything is forming it can be very painfull. Hence my reasons for wanting to give the horse some time first.  And the vet doesnt appear to be in a hurry to pts either.


----------

