# Low Grade Laminitis recovery



## Ranyhyn (5 December 2019)

Sorry I know there is a similar thread below but my situation is slightly different.

Pony sore on front feet, after doing my usual abscess etc check I had the vet out who has diagnosed her with very early signs of lammi.  Vet wasn't concerned slightly, as no pulse, so advised to keep off the grass at least until Christmas. Soak her hay etc and if no improvement then call them out and they'll start investigating.

I'm just asking for your experiences really on two things. 
a) when should I expect to see and improvement?
b) when could we expect to start riding her quietly?


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## Pinkvboots (5 December 2019)

It's always very difficult as each horse is different but your looking at months not weeks, but I think I would want x rays done just to see what is going on, and also to get a proper diagnosis that it is laminitis, one of mine went very lame vet said treat as laminitis he went sound very quickly so we xrayed about a week later and he had no signs of laminitis just thin soles.

Is she on any pain relief?


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## Ranyhyn (5 December 2019)

Pinkvboots said:



			It's always very difficult as each horse is different but your looking at months not weeks, but I think I would want x rays done just to see what is going on, and also to get a proper diagnosis that it is laminitis, one of mine went very lame vet said treat as laminitis he went sound very quickly so we xrayed about a week later and he had no signs of laminitis just thin soles.

Is she on any pain relief?
		
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Hi thanks for your reply

No, the vet was so laid back she was almost horizontal about it.  Pony not in a laminitic stance, no raised pulses, pottery in trot but foot perfect walking across hardcore. More pronounced upon the turns in each direction.

Nothing prescribed apart from to take her off the grazing (we have good grass here despite the time of year) and re-assess if not resolved itself in three weeks.


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## Pinkvboots (5 December 2019)

She doesn't sound really uncomfortable then so if it is laminitis you have caught it early, I would keep her off the grass for now and see how she goes, I was never totally convinced mine had laminitis although he looked worse turning but he recovered to quickly really.

How old is she? Is she barefoot?


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## Ranyhyn (5 December 2019)

9 year old Section A pony, barefoot.  Her feet have been allowed to get too long, when farrier attended two weeks ago he made me aware he felt she'd had laminitis fairly recently (but again not concerned she has it now) 

She had an abscess at that time (Bacteria set it off maybe?) so she was kept in, then turned out by day so maybe that restriction and then influx of grass could have caused the footiness?

Ive only had her two months now (stress from the move triggered?).  She's had no previous history of lammi apart from the supposed bout in her last short-term home (she was there 1 year)


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## vmac66 (5 December 2019)

I think if caught early and managed correctly they can recover quickly. My mare had lami last May and was caught early. She was on 2 weeks box rest and was sound after that. Every horse is, different though


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## Ranyhyn (5 December 2019)

vmac66 said:



			I think if caught early and managed correctly they can recover quickly. My mare had lami last May and was caught early. She was on 2 weeks box rest and was sound after that. Every horse is, different though
		
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Thanks for your reply, hopeful at least.


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## Lindylouanne (5 December 2019)

My Connie had very low grade laminitis this year, caught it the day after he went lame and he had three weeks box rest, on Bute for a week, soaked hay and a deep bed. He was sound after the week of bute and started on restricted turnout with walking out in straight lines only. He then went away for 10 days to an equine swimming pool and swam, again in straight lines and once home began full time work. X-rays showed negligible rotation but I have had gel support pads put under his shoes to help with any concussion. He is in full time work, Irish clipped and out naked to keep his weight at a sensible level and is absolutely thriving on hay and balancer only.


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## Ranyhyn (5 December 2019)

HappyHollyDays said:



			My Connie had very low grade laminitis this year, caught it the day after he went lame and he had three weeks box rest, on Bute for a week, soaked hay and a deep bed. He was sound after the week of bute and started on restricted turnout with walking out in straight lines only. He then went away for 10 days to an equine swimming pool and swam, again in straight lines and once home began full time work. X-rays showed negligible rotation but I have had gel support pads put under his shoes to help with any concussion. He is in full time work, Irish clipped and out naked to keep his weight at a sensible level and is absolutely thriving on hay and balancer only.
		
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Thank you, I’m
Hoping similar will happen with Pip


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## ester (5 December 2019)

I do know that the lami app has been way up high in quite a few areas recently. 

I would expect a LGL case as you describe to get more comfortable quite quickly if off the grass. Given your farriers observations and current situation it sounds like you may well need to manage her quite carefully and I'd be treating her as metabolic and considering testing for IR/EMS.


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## Ranyhyn (5 December 2019)

ester said:



			I do know that the lami app has been way up high in quite a few areas recently. 

I would expect a LGL case as you describe to get more comfortable quite quickly if off the grass. Given your farriers observations and current situation it sounds like you may well need to manage her quite carefully and I'd be treating her as metabolic and considering testing for IR/EMS.
		
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Thanks L, were lucky that as she’s at home we can do whatever she needs.


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## Ranyhyn (5 December 2019)

Is there any suggestion out there that any of the associated lammi illnesses are hereditary?


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## ycbm (6 December 2019)

Laminitis can't be identified on xray until it's caused rotation, which is pretty advanced. Most cases never get anywhere near rotation if they are spotted early. I wouldn't be doing x rays unless she is still lame next week.  

I would expect a pony without raised pulses to be fine a few days after being removed from grass, and if then completely pain free with no meds, to start walking and if no pain is shown, increase the exercise from there. But becguided by your vet on that.

.


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## ycbm (6 December 2019)

Ranyhyn said:



			Is there any suggestion out there that any of the associated lammi illnesses are hereditary?
		
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Diabetes type ii can be in humans, so I dont see why EMS wouldn't be in horses.

Was the pony at all fat?  if not, I would test for EMS and Cushings.


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## Ranyhyn (6 December 2019)

In my opinion, she was as fat as butter.


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## ester (6 December 2019)

ycbm said:



			Diabetes type ii can be in humans, so I dont see why EMS wouldn't be in horses.

Was the pony at all fat?  if not, I would test for EMS and Cushings.
		
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It is my understanding that EMS is suspected to be.


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## ester (6 December 2019)

Yup, dieting will get you a long way. 

Also she appears to have 5 legs


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## Ranyhyn (6 December 2019)

ester said:



			Yup, dieting will get you a long way.

Also she appears to have 5 legs 

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Ha her field mate is an equally spherical sheep.  She hasn't always been so chubby so I am hoping I can reverse this quite quickly


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## ester (6 December 2019)

You want a pic of mine when I bought him . He had been hunting fit in the march when sold, this was what he looked like by the June. I promised him he would never look like that again.


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## Ranyhyn (6 December 2019)

Was he footy at all or had he got away with it.

Dear Frank the Trojan horse x


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## ycbm (6 December 2019)

Ranyhyn said:



			In my opinion, she was as fat as butter.
		
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Bloody hell!  She needs keeping away from grass until she's  a  decent weight, never mind the laminitis. You're lucky you got away with an early warning on that one. 

.


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## ester (6 December 2019)

Ranyhyn said:



			Was he footy at all or had he got away with it.

Dear Frank the Trojan horse x
		
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No not at all! he was fine (which I kind of took as him not being too susceptible). Vet said he was fitter than he looked and to crack on. 
Essentially the interim owner hadn't really ridden him for a few weeks and he was in a fairly large field albeit with a big group of horses that was clearly too much for him without exercise. When he hasn't been able to exercise a grass track has generally been the best option for him in summer.


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## vmac66 (6 December 2019)

My mare was fat when she got laminitis. 
She's lost 80kg since May. Am hoping for a little bit more over winter so she goes into spring skinny. You don't realise how overweight they are until the weight comes off.


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## Ranyhyn (6 December 2019)

I have photos of the mare during her showing career (very successful) and its a shame for sure.  She was in tip top condition then and not an inch to pinch as they say.

I can do a track, that's probably going to work quite well, my WB can be in the middle and the pony can track round the edge


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## ester (6 December 2019)

Sounds like a plan  
I do generally follow the feeding recommendations for metabolic horses these days as in retirement Frank has thrown up a crest at times, and at one point his tail head. 
I absolutely have to keep him on additional magnesium oxide (stopping it was when he got a bit cresty). 
We had some footiness issues in 2018 but this year I think we probably reached equilibrium with his teeth issues limiting his grass intake just enough to help too!


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## Lindylouanne (6 December 2019)

DP has EMS as did his older sister so I would say there is some basis to suggest it is hereditary.


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## Ranyhyn (6 December 2019)

ester said:



			Sounds like a plan 
I do generally follow the feeding recommendations for metabolic horses these days as in retirement Frank has thrown up a crest at times, and at one point his tail head.
I absolutely have to keep him on additional magnesium oxide (stopping it was when he got a bit cresty).
We had some footiness issues in 2018 but this year I think we probably reached equilibrium with his teeth issues limiting his grass intake just enough to help too!
		
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See now the dreaded L word makes me scared to feed anything at all, but accept pony may need a balancer etc.  And I read that AG is a useful supplement ( I would feed this to the WB during her seasons anyway so will have it) and also epsom salts?

What do you feed, as an example?


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## Micky (6 December 2019)

Pony shouldn’t need a  balancer in my experience..soaked hay and restricted grazing..track grazing would be ideal..have a look at the laminitis site for feed recommendations but personally I would leave off unless she is going to be worked hard every day.


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## Ranyhyn (6 December 2019)

Thanks Micky, I have to be honest, I havent fed her anything and didnt really want to unless its absolutely neccessary.  She's a first ridden so realistically she's not going to work hard at all really on the grand scheme of things!


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## Leo Walker (6 December 2019)

I'd say for a horse on restricted grazing that they really do need a balancer, or preferably a powdered vitamin and mineral supplement. High copper and zinc, no iron and decent magnesium levels are the things to look for. Equimins Advance Complete can be bought in a pelleted form, or forage plus and progressive earth both do powdered supplements that you would need to mix into a handful of low starch and sugar feed. I use pink mash as its the lowest I can find, but theres other options


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## Ranyhyn (6 December 2019)

Thanks for your post Leo.

I can see why people would be of this opinion, especially seeing as I am leeching all the goodness from her hay too.  But the main thing is making sure its all appropriate for her.


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## PurBee (13 December 2019)

I echo magnesium (which helps unlock and transport vit d into the blood which is immune boosting and helps prevent insulin resistance, preventing easy weight gain and laminitis) ..
...and also supplement anti-inflammatory omega 3. Stop any pro-inflammatory omega 6 oils in the diet....which are all oils except linseed....which is predominantly omega 3.
When my horses are on this they can adjust to spring grass fine without getting footy.


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## ester (13 December 2019)

Ranyhyn said:



			See now the dreaded L word makes me scared to feed anything at all, but accept pony may need a balancer etc.  And I read that AG is a useful supplement ( I would feed this to the WB during her seasons anyway so will have it) and also epsom salts?

What do you feed, as an example?
		
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What do you mean by AG? agnus caste? not something I have ever fed

as an example F has shitty teeth so gets enough agrobs weisencobs to transport his supplements/meds which is currently equimins adv. complete, magnesium oxide, 1/2 cup of micro linseed per day and bute. 
Before the bute he used to get boswellia but that stopped being enough to keep him comfy 

In work and with teeth he had agrobs aspero, unmolassed beet, + oats and micro linseed depending on work level (ie more when hunting) plus the same supplements.


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## Ranyhyn (13 December 2019)

Thanks for the reply. 

I am feeding her Spillers lite and lean balancer now as a starting point.


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## ester (13 December 2019)

I've never looked fully at that one, but it doesn't have added iron which is a good thing they paid attention to


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## holeymoley (13 December 2019)

Ranyhyn said:



			Thanks for the reply.

I am feeding her Spillers lite and lean balancer now as a starting point.
		
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There are better balancers out there for a laminitic. This one is full of junk- oatfeed wheetfeed mollasses... and it has over the 10% recommended combined sugar and starch.


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## Ranyhyn (13 December 2019)

Spillers lite and lean came from the Laminitis site?


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## ester (13 December 2019)

Lots do, they pay for the certification.


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## Ranyhyn (13 December 2019)

well bugger me, you cant trust anyone anymore


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## holeymoley (13 December 2019)

Ranyhyn said:



			well bugger me, you cant trust anyone anymore
		
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Unfortunately you really can’t. There’s endorsed products that pay to have the logo on their products. I imagine their is some criteria they need to meet but ironically not what’s ideal for a laminitic.  You need to read ingredients and analysis’ of each feed and go through with a fine toothed comb.


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## ester (13 December 2019)

I *think* it is only sugar + starch levels they have to adhere to, not ingredients.


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## Ranyhyn (13 December 2019)

Holey moley seems to think its over the 10% too!


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## Ranyhyn (13 December 2019)

It is too.  Maybe I've been hoodiwnked.  Lucky I'm not adding in the chaff as well as recommended!


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## holeymoley (13 December 2019)

Honestly take anything a feed company says with a pinch of salt. Ive had Spillers out to our yard purely for the weigh bridge and the stuff the girl was telling me to feed was abysmal. They are just reps at the end of the day trying to sell their products. The only big feed company that’s remotely decent in my opinion is Topspec.


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## Ranyhyn (13 December 2019)

It wasnt Spillers who recommeded this to me, its the laminitis website!


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## holeymoley (13 December 2019)

Very bizarre as a few paragraphs above the recommendation it states not to go over 10% combined sugar and starch


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## Ranyhyn (13 December 2019)

This is very dangerous for people like me, who would hope to be able to go onto a website like that and gather some genuine information.

I'm lucky in that the horse does not have full blown laminitis ...

So, this leads me to my next question!

Pony taped at 269kg
Laminitis *boohiss* site says feed 1.5kg forage to help weight loss, so pony is having just over 4kg hay a day.
Soaked for 30 mins
200g of balancer

Is THAT genuine feeding wise for a low grade possible laminitic?


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## ester (13 December 2019)

https://www.ecirhorse.org/DDT+E-diet.php

so yes that agrees with 1.5% of current weight ergo 4kg soaked.


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## holeymoley (13 December 2019)

That seems fine. Are you spreading the 4kg out throughout the day? It’s normally recommended to soak for an hour to get most of the sugars out. Also stay away from ryegrass hay.


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## Ranyhyn (13 December 2019)

Its bloody hard to make sure she's constantly got hay at that ratio but we're sticking to it!  Double netted and 2kg am 2kg pm.

Hay is good quality unimproved meadow hay.


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## ester (13 December 2019)

Is she shod - apologies if you have already mentioned this but unshod has more hay trickling possibilities!


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## Ranyhyn (13 December 2019)

Unshod


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## ester (13 December 2019)

Right, unfortunately they have sold out of the smallest ones but the next size up is probably useable 
fill, tie as shown and chuck in stable. Because they have nothing to pull against it takes them a fair bit longer (proved by a previously double netted section A who would have eaten his ration in a couple of hours tops )

they used to do 40mm holes too and even that would slow F down. 

https://www.nibbleze.net/shop


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## Ranyhyn (13 December 2019)

They look good. Is there any reason I couldn’t use a standard small holes Haynet for this with a little doctoring?


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## ester (13 December 2019)

Ok, so I did this, with some softish rope and standard haynet (with rings as all mine did) but it never really worked as well holding the top shut and I just got another nibbleze I suspect maybe because my haynet material was stiffer? (guessing!) - The nibbleze also works even if you tie it wrong as my mum did for months! Peopler certainly do make their own successful hay pillows though so feel free to get crafty


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## Ranyhyn (13 December 2019)

Who am I kidding I’m not crafty. I’ll just r buy one 🤪


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## ester (13 December 2019)

I donated my small holed one to said welsh A because it became apparent that they larger holed ones slowed F down just fine otherwise I'd send it to you. Lack of functional teeth means you get your hay in a heap instead. He did used to occasionally dunk it in his giant water bucket but not very often.


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## Ranyhyn (13 December 2019)

That’s very kind of you to even suggest 👍🏻


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## holeymoley (13 December 2019)

Just bought one of the wreaths!


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## Ranyhyn (18 December 2019)

I times the little beast this morning, it took her two hours to eat her morning serving🐽


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## ester (18 December 2019)

what was it before?


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## Chianti (18 December 2019)

Apologies but I'm jumping on this post as it's been mentioned. My pony is on a weight loss programme over the winter. Do people use magnesium as a way to help lose weight? I've read it can help to slim a crest down.


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## holeymoley (18 December 2019)

Yes I’ve been feeding it for a few years now. The crest is 99% of the time the last thing to go though so you need to really have them trim. My guys is starting to flatten out now and he’s the lightest he’s ever been.


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## ester (18 December 2019)

Mag has certainly helped the fat pads on mine (crest and tail head). I took him off it at one point as I stripped what he was eating right back due to liver issues. couple of months later (winter too) cresty and tail head pads, put him back on and not been cresty like that for the last 18 months.


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## vmac66 (19 December 2019)

I feed a powdered supplement containing magnesium to my mare  who had mild laminitis last May. She has lost 80kg since then and is the thinnest she's been since I've had her. Still slight hard fat on her neck but it's going. 
I spent hours researching feeds and sugar/starch levels, a lot of the ones recommended for lamanitics are over the 10percent level. I now feed Honeychop lite and healthy chaff which is around 5 percent and speedi beet. 
It's hard getting the weight of and feeding 1.5% but worth it in the end.


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## Ranyhyn (19 December 2019)

Ester no that's just double netted, I need to order the net you suggested.  I wonder how long it will extend feeding time by?


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## NOISYGIRL2 (19 December 2019)

I would have tested for PPID and EMS and go from there


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## Ranyhyn (19 December 2019)

Thanks Noisy.
I think the vet was in a suck it and see situation as with no bounding pulse or stance, I suppose it could be something else. If she’s not improved after Christmas I will be asking for all the tests!


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## Ranyhyn (23 December 2019)

Little update: pony sound now, will give her another week and she can start doing some work once the vet has seen her! 

My usual routine would be 6 weeks roadwork- do we think that’s acceptable with a possible laminitis?


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## PurBee (23 December 2019)

Ranyhyn said:



			See now the dreaded L word makes me scared to feed anything at all, but accept pony may need a balancer etc.  And I read that AG is a useful supplement ( I would feed this to the WB during her seasons anyway so will have it) and also epsom salts?

What do you feed, as an example?
		
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Epsom salts is magnesium sulfate. Not generally advised to supplement by mouth this particular type of magnesium, as its bowel affects are powerful as a laxative, and can cause stomach upset.
Magnesium oxide is safe, good for fat horses and lami horses to have. My mare, welshd x prone to fattiness lost her fatpads from tail and shoulders just by adding magnesium, i was amazed to be honest.
Mag oxide you can get 1-5kg bulk pouches on ebay for a bargain, food quality.

Glad your pony is doing better, must have been a mild case. Road work barefoot sounds harsh though for recovering laminae fibres. Ok for walking but i wouldnt risk trot, not without hoofboots.
Sand or dry field would be much less concussive on the laminae barefoot to get her exercising at more than a walk.


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## ester (23 December 2019)

Good news and agree re. work. 

I know some do use mag sulphate by I get mag ox from intralabs.


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## vmac66 (23 December 2019)

Second the hoof boots, I was told by my farrier not to even walk my horse inhand on the road without boots when she was recovering from lami. I was also told no lunging in circles but long reining was OK and lunging in straight lines, all on a, supportive surface.


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## Ranyhyn (23 December 2019)

I only have roadwork at home, but can box her to an arena once she can trot that’s no problem 👍🏻


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## holeymoley (23 December 2019)

I started off with as many straight lines as I could do out hacking. Luckily we have a long tarmaced avenue which was perfect.


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## ameliadixonBScundergrad (2 March 2020)

Hi,
I am a 3rd year animal science student looking into grazing systems for my dissertation. If anyone using a track grazing system would fill out my survey that would be a great help! Thank you
https://nclafrd.eu.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_1N8prbhc34XB3p3


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