# Liver disease



## Crazy_Caz (27 October 2009)

One of my horses was blood tested because of weight loss and losing the top line and the vet has come back tonight with the tests showing high enzymes for the Liver... indicating liver damage of some kind....

She has suggested 2 weeks off and re doing blood test in 2 weeks and in that time to put the horse on a low protein diet.....

Can any experts on here indicate what is the best food to put the horse on......


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## rlhnlk (27 October 2009)

Try ringing a feed company. They will be able to explain what you need to look for in the feed. I know you need to support with certain vits that the liver usually helps with and avoid things that the liver would have looked after. I researched this a while ago for the baileys feed knowledge award, but I can't remember which vits. If you do a search on google you'll probably find some useful stuff.


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## Box_Of_Frogs (28 October 2009)

CC - here's the info for horses with liver disease of any kind, straight from the top man in the UK, Prof Knottenbelt. Is the damage due to ragwort poisoning? If so, your horse will need to be on this diet for life. 

You need to support the liver by providing a VERY low protein diet. But as all animals need some protein, what protein you do feed must be of the highest quality you can afford. I'd recommend takling to D&amp;H as they have been working with Prof Knottenbelt on developing specific diets for ragwort poisoning/liver damage. Secondly, you need to feed B vits and the best source is Yea Sac. Hind gut digestion is often compromised in liver damaged horses - Yea Sac aids this and also acts as a very mild appetite stimulant. Often liver damaged horses lose their appetite and their lust for life. Feed Milk Thistle as a supplement as this has been shown to support the liver. D&amp;H do a high quality one in a tub - lasts a good 3 months. Feed plenty of fibre and split the feeds into as many smaller feeds as you can manage. Big meals put extra load on the liver. Above all NEVER EVER feed conditioning products as they all contain very high levels of oil. Liver damaged horses should NEVER be fed oils, EVER.

If the damage is severe, you may see additional symptoms which need management rather than dietary control. In strong sunshine, liver damaged horses will burn as the liver is no longer able to properly break down the chlorophyl in the green plants they eat. This then circulates in the horse's system and actually attracts sunlight to the skin. The only secure way to manage this is to stable the horse during the day in summer. Further distressing symptoms to watch out for include lethargy, depression, weight loss, loss of interest in life, blindness, jaundice, abdominal oedema, standing in corners pressing the head against a wall and self harm.

My rescued mare Angel came to me with such terrible ragwort poisoning (= severe to terminal liver destruction) that the vets said there was no hope and she should be pts. Well, at the moment she's with her new mum, fat as a pig and winning dressage competitions in between bucking new mum's father off in a lesson. About as far from dead as it's possible to be so have hope. Angel was on D&amp;H Pasture mix, D&amp;H Alfalfa (plain, not oil), Milk Thistle, Yea Sac and the whole lot padded out and made damp with speedibeet. Ad lib haylage when she was stabled. I often added a handful or 2 of Sunny's Veteran Chaff as it's jam packed full of anti-oxidants, nettles, herbs, mint - low protein and a nice pick me up for a sick horse.

Good luck hun and if I can help further, just let me know x


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## wendyII (28 October 2009)

There are three likely causes of liver damage, obviously the first is ragwort poisening, and the second parasite infestation. If you can rule out ragwort then you need to think about parasite burden. You may well have been worming regularly but have you taken into consideration all chemical groups that you have been using, the most likely is encysted cyathatomes, these need to be treated with either a five day course of panacur guard or equest. The five day will help combat roundworm also, roundworm resistance to ivermectin is on the increase, especially in foals and youngstock if your horse is under 18 months then a roundworm burden is also a high posibility.

Liver fluke, contradictory to general shared opinionand often dismissed by vets is the possibility of  Liver Fluke. Ther are more and more cases that have been established in horses, wet summers, poor drainage etc are causing increased cases in horses throughout the UK unfortuneately because it is said that Liver Fluke cannot reproduce in horses eggs are rarely detected if at all so you can only treat and observe improvement in hindsight. None of the equine wormers on the market are licensed for horses so you would need to discuss this with your vet.

Then there is good old fashioned stress factor, an over production of bile caused by stress can affect the enzyme levels , brought on by change, be it pregancy, weaning, competition change of yard, loss of a companion etc can all take its toll on the way your horses guts cope with the food being digested. In this instance Gastroguard can quickly help re-establish the balance of the intestines, its expensive at around £300 for a months supply and should be followed by a further 28 days at a reduced level.

The good news is that the liver can regenerate up to 75% and still function well so it's not all doom and gloom. The bad news is that ragwort poisoning can often prove more fatal,so fingers crossed its not that.

My initial course of action would be to take a dung sample, the blood sample has already confirmed a possible parasite burden, so treat with panacur. Don't rule out worm burden if the sample is clear as encysted worms cannot be detected. Start your horse on the gastroguard, reduce stress where possible, feed plenty of fibre but keep starches content in the diet low.

Generally if the correct treatment is carried out, be it stress, worm burden, etc a blood sample can be taken 28 days later and should have returned to normal, but another factor to bare in mind is that chemicals issued such as wormers can affect blood results and I think if I recall the reason for this is that they are stored in the liver which is how wormers also offer protection, so your bloood results can show raised enzymes.

If your vet covers all possible eventualities and there is no improvement in a few months time then a liver biopsy would be the next step.


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## kellyeaton (28 October 2009)

i had a horse with ragwort poisioning and ai  had her on ready fibre mash could for weight gain but low in oils and protin witch your horse needs i also had my girl on vi sorbin from the vets witch is packed with b vits witch the horses liver needs to work so this helps boost th liver. Mint is also helpful do to this helps with liver pile to get the toxins out of the liver. His your horse doing anything else out of the norm apart from loseing weight? what feed do you have him on at the mo? Is he on hay/haylege? How old his he/she? If you would like any more info pm me!x


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## Box_Of_Frogs (28 October 2009)

Be aware CC that a liver biopsy is an invasive procedure and one of the possible side effects of liver damage is that the blood does not clot properly. Angel had a "liver flush" where a gallon bag of fluid was dripped directly into the vein in her neck so that it would go directly to the liver to flush out any remaining circulating toxins. The procedure was fairly uneventful but it took over 3 very scary hours to stop the bleeding after the drip was removed. And to reiterate, it's Milk Thistle not mint that is a recognised support for the liver. Mint will just tempt a picky eater.

Be aware also that you normally only see the signs of liver damage when over 70% of the liver is damaged. At 76% and above, this is fatal in all horses. That's the problem with ragwort poisoning - owners don't see it until it is too late. And ragwort damaged livers can stabilise but can never regenerate. However, if your horse's liver damage has been accidentally discovered whilst looking for something else and/or is one of the conditions qfu has covered above, then there is every reason to believe your horse will make a full recovery. Top quality nursing and tlc will speed the recovery in that case. Again - good luck x


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## BackInBlack (28 October 2009)

in between blood tests on mine i was feeding plain alpha a, speedibeet and milk thistle. vets provided a vit b supplement to put in it. i just kept it simple so that the liver had less work to do processing the food. also tried to keep on not so fresh grass or hay (so less sugar intake). i had a scrappy shady bit of field where the grass wasn't doing so well. also kept him out of direct sunlight.
good luck x  i remember it was horrible waiting for those test results.


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## orin (28 October 2009)

when buffy had liver disease she was put onto hi-fi lite and saracen high fibre cubes, milk thistle and a supplement from the vet.

she also had 2 liver biopsys and she had problems with her blood clotting. she has since made a full recovery. 


dont know if this is of any help?


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## Crazy_Caz (30 October 2009)

ok.. the horse is now on Hi Fi lite with Saracen high fibre cubes as well as a liquid liver de tox...  have been advised by the vet to worm for tapeworm which will be done once the wormers have arrived and then another blood test will be done in under 2 weeks....  weight loss at the moment is the only signs....

Will keep you all updated... but so far fingers crossed we have caught it early enough...


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## kellyeaton (30 October 2009)

why dont you have him blood tested for tape worms instead of putting chemicals into his body because that will make the liver work harder and if it is under stress or dieased you dont want it under any more stress than it al raedy his and for any other worms you could get an poo sample done maybe?


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## iconique (30 October 2009)

We went through this with one of our older mares in November last year when she collapsed on the road whilst out hacking (not something to be repeated) our vet and eventually the Royal Vet College got involved

Diet wise a low protein diet worked really well, we used Spillers Happy hoof and they also recommended micronised flaked maize for her and additional vitamins.  Our vet perscibed hepatacil (which is quite expensive but basically a milk thistle extract).   After this and lots of antibiotics for months, we finally started to see a reduction in the blood levels and have retained her on a low protein diet as a precaution.

We all have a feed company that we like and for me its spillers, they were good enough to suggest something that they don't sell which suprised me but gave me some reassurance that they were more interested in the welfare than just selling food.

Hope you have some sucess - good luck!!


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## Crazy_Caz (31 October 2009)

Well I rechecked with the vet and she again confirmed I am to worm the horse for tape worm... I have also got an Iridologist coming next Sat... on a very good friends recommendation... this lady seems to know her stuff...one of the things recommended is nettles chopped and put into hot water... after a couple of hours use the water in the feed.... its an excellent de tox for kidneys and liver..  will wait and see what happens after her visit... but will keep you all informed... the horse itself is fine at the moment ....


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## mainpower (31 October 2009)

Hi Caz, Laddie had some kidney problems over the summer, Roy Cole treated him to release the toxins he was storing and gave me loads of advice (starting with a detox of baking soda, of all cheap and cheerful things)!  I have also found this to be a very useful site!

http://equineiridology.eu/iridology.php


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## Crazy_Caz (31 October 2009)

Hiya

Thanks for the info.. although this isnt kidney problems but liver....  

All makes for good reading...x


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## Box_Of_Frogs (1 November 2009)

CC - for God's sake be careful what you put into your horse in the belief that it will help a damaged liver. Any "health" advice and/or treatment MUST be ok-ed by your vet first. No disrespect intended but for every valid treatment there are 1,000 folk lore or personal favourite ones that at best do nothing and at worst make things much, much worse.


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## Crazy_Caz (1 November 2009)

Hi Box of Frogs

Everything I am doing is being run past my vet first.... and I doing everything in my power to ensure that the horse is getting the best possible treatment to ensure its recovery...

x


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## Crazy_Caz (13 November 2009)

Had another blood test done again today and its better news... apparently although its not perfect the results show the damage is being repaired....  so horse is to stay on same diet and will be retested after 1 month...


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