# Countryfile



## jrp204 (12 March 2013)

Ok,bit late but CF on Sunday. What went on with that calving? Heifer is calving, lad and herdsman check the heifer and apparently everything is there, in farmer speak. They then go on to say that week later the vet is called as she hadn't calved, was unable to and is destroyed due to septicaemia. So, farm is organic so appreciate it makes treatment difficult so why wait a week to call the vet when they could either C sec her and remove her to a non organic herd or destroy her much earlier on.
Also, why did they tell the viewers that this happened, if we had admitted that Animal Health would have us up against the wall.
Am I missing something??


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## d_morrow (12 March 2013)

My first thought was - how miserable for the poor heifer to have to endure a journey to the abbatior as she must have been in a lot of pain - and surely, by that stage, totally exhausted?


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## kiteman0 (13 March 2013)

We are calving at the moment and someone would have been sacked for neglect.
If they dont calve with in 4 hrs i can maje sure that they will within the following 10 mins


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## Emz99 (13 March 2013)

I can't believe they put her on the lorry after the vet found calf was dead, they seemed surprised the carcass was condemned?!

Ps organic farm can have c-sections performed, I've done one!


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## Hedgewitch13 (14 March 2013)

I have to say I was pretty horrified at the treatment of that cow. It would have been far kinder to put her down at the farm than make her travel all the way to an abbatoir in her condition. Really, really sad in my eyes. Yes they can't afford to be sentimental but there is no need for cruelty and neglect


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## cornbrodolly (14 March 2013)

Disgraceful and neglectful handling - I think all involved should be ashamed. I made this point on a farming forum and got little response [ that forum seemed pro Prince Chaerles, tho on this programme I cant see why - he should have been looking after his animals rather than pretending to lay a hedge!],  so I m heartened its come up on this forum.
I could hardly believe my ears that they left the heifer for a week, and then to admit that publicly?! If our cows arent progressing and theres some sort of difficulty the vet is called - to me economics arent an issue, the cattle s health and welfare is paramount - and economics certainly shouldnt be the excuse for the Duchy to behave in such a shoddy manner.


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## jrp204 (14 March 2013)

I think the fact it was Prince Charles farm is actually irrelevant. He has staff who oversee the running of the farm. The lad who checked the heifer was working under supervision of the herdsman who I assume would be answerable to the manager. I have emailed Countryfile to ask why they saw fit to tell the public the heifer had been left, I have had an automated email, just wondering if they will properly reply.


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## Twizzel (14 March 2013)

Just watched it- I too cannot believe they left her a week before the vet saw her. Surely they should have known her due date and given that she was in the early stages of calving the vet should have been called the morning after at the latest... really shocking.


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## Landcruiser (14 March 2013)

I was really shocked by this, and they were so matter of fact about it! A week!? Beggars belief!


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## braveheart (15 March 2013)

I'd be keen to hear what the bbc have to say about it jrp204, I thought it was dreadful. I dont understand why the vet was not called sooner! x


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## DanceswithCows (15 March 2013)

Didn't see the programme but I'm stunned that anyone would leave an animal giving birth for a week, it's certainly not standard practise amongst anyone I know or have spoken to, organic or not!


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## Alec Swan (15 March 2013)

Is the relevant piece of film still available?

Alec.


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## jrp204 (15 March 2013)

Alec, it will be on iplayer.


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## Fools Motto (15 March 2013)

Alec Swan said:



			Is the relevant piece of film still available?

Alec.
		
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It is about 20 mins into the program.

As a daughter of a beef farmer, the idea of leaving her for a week to calve does seem very wrong. We've all had a few cows struggling, and the vet is called there and then. If after that, it isn't working out well, then the cow is destroyed there and then. Wouldn't even dream to send them off in that state.  I thought the way 'we' do it was the normal for all... obviously not!


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## Alec Swan (15 March 2013)

jrp204 said:



			Alec, it will be on iplayer.
		
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Don't shout at me,  but what's iplayer?

Alec.


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## jrp204 (15 March 2013)

If you google countryfile they have their own page on the bbc website, you can watch it on there.


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## milo'n'molly (15 March 2013)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/mobile/iplayer/episode/b01rb20m

Think that should work


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## Alec Swan (15 March 2013)

I watched the relevant bit once (about 22 mins in),  and then to be sure,  I went to watch it again,  and it shut me out!!

From the first viewing,  I thought the following;  that there had been some very strange editing and compilation of the film,  and that the dialogue was somehow miss-matched with the events.

I'm not making excuses,  but I can't imagine that if the events,  _"as they appeared",  _actually happened,  or as they were portrayed,  then someone would be for the high jump.  That young lad,  "Ben"?  seemed to me to have a rough idea what he was doing,  but that the poor beast started labour,  and then a week later,  she was shot,  just isn't believable.  I don't think that she'd have lasted that long.  When a calf,  a lamb or a foal dies,  pre-parturition,  then within hours it starts to decompose,  within a day or two,  it's rotting,  and the smell is something else. 

To suggest that they sent the wretched creature off to slaughter,  knowing that she was carrying a *7 day* dead calf,  and that she was herself suffering,  as she would be were she sceptoscemic,  is beyond belief.

Somewhere,  somehow,  something went very wrong,  in my opinion.  *If the programme was accurate*,  and the events happened as they were portrayed,  then Prince charles needs to find himself a competent stockman.

Alec.

ETS,  Having had a while to think further about this,  I find it beyond common sense to consider that the heifer was kept in her condition,  for 7 days.  No stockman would permit that. a.


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## eahotson (15 March 2013)

I saw that.Very odd to me.Cow obviously in labour and distressed.Young lad with thick heavy glove (How do youy feel ANYTHING with such a thick glove) and it certainly didn't look sterile.If cervix open thats when infection will have been introduced.God only knows what really happened but not impressive.


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## jrp204 (15 March 2013)

The lad didn't do anything out of the ordinary,  the gloves are used by farmers and vets and you can feel plenty in them, you are talking about a calf, you need to feel feet and head you are not completing surgery. It was about as sterile as it could be, they are in a agricultural shed not an operating theatre. If they had been doing a section it would be a different story. Have just watched it again, they didn't call the vet to check her he came on a routine visit so they had him look at her while he was there.


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## eahotson (16 March 2013)

jrp204 said:



			The lad didn't do anything out of the ordinary,  the gloves are used by farmers and vets and you can feel plenty in them, you are talking about a calf, you need to feel feet and head you are not completing surgery. It was about as sterile as it could be, they are in a agricultural shed not an operating theatre. If they had been doing a section it would be a different story. Have just watched it again, they didn't call the vet to check her he came on a routine visit so they had him look at her while he was there.
		
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Its not an operating theatre but there is the possibility of an open cervix and therefore a route for infection.With those gloves i would expect you could feel the calf but what about the cervix?Is it dilating? How much etc.? Whats actually happening.? Cow obviously in labour at one point then seemed to have stopped.Of course it could have been a badly edited a film.


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## Pale Rider (16 March 2013)

You'd think a herdsman on that farm would be up to scratch, because thats where the accountability lies. 

Don't know what really went on, it being TV and all but it was a poor do.


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## FfionWinnie (16 March 2013)

I didn't see it however being organic is no reason for the vet not to be called. 

I would question if the heifer was actually calving at all tho. I would have thought if the calf had been coming out, she would have died if it hadn't been born within that time. More likely is the calf died and was rotten inside her. Certainly in my experience with sheep you can go to lamb one which has just started and the lamb can be totally rotten and stinking, the ewe often shows no signs whatsoever that anything is wrong and if you can get the bits out and get plenty of antibiotics in, they can survive. 

Anyway whatever the story it does not sound like she was dealt with properly, or it reported on properly, and sending her to an abattoir was a bit desperate if you ask me.


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## eahotson (16 March 2013)

FfionWinnie said:



			I didn't see it however being organic is no reason for the vet not to be called. 

I would question if the heifer was actually calving at all tho. I would have thought if the calf had been coming out, she would have died if it hadn't been born within that time. More likely is the calf died and was rotten inside her. Certainly in my experience with sheep you can go to lamb one which has just started and the lamb can be totally rotten and stinking, the ewe often shows no signs whatsoever that anything is wrong and if you can get the bits out and get plenty of antibiotics in, they can survive. 

Anyway whatever the story it does not sound like she was dealt with properly, or it reported on properly, and sending her to an abattoir was a bit desperate if you ask me.
		
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At one point the cow definately looked in labour objectively.She looked very uncomfortable and kept getting up and down.Later she looked very comfortable so either labour has ceased or there was very bad editing of the programme.


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## Alec Swan (17 March 2013)

FfionWinnie said:



			.......

Certainly in my experience with sheep you can go to lamb one which has just started and the lamb can be totally rotten and stinking, the ewe often shows no signs whatsoever that anything is wrong .......
		
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I can't agree with that.  The ewe which is carrying a dead lamb should be obvious to the competent shepherd.  The rotten and stinking lamb would have been dead for a day or so,  and the ewe would,  or should,  have had a marker.

Alec.


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## BigBuck's (17 March 2013)

eahotson said:



			At one point the cow definately looked in labour objectively.She looked very uncomfortable and kept getting up and down.Later she looked very comfortable so either labour has ceased or there was very bad editing of the programme.
		
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I wondered if they were even showing the same heifer in the later footage, or just random footage of an in-calf heifer of that breed.


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## Jax (17 March 2013)

Well I was disappointed when tonight the presenter held up a "duck" that was clearly a "drake" but proclaimed it a duck anyway.

I did see last weeks programme and was also quite taken aback by the treatment of the heifer, but sadly not surprised by it having seen the standard practice taken on most farms.


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## meandmyself (17 March 2013)

Awful. Just awful the way the treated her. If they'd got the vet out on the first day, they could likely have saved her. Need to figure out who to email now to complain to- I'm honestly appalled by it.


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## jrp204 (18 March 2013)

Jax said:



			Well I was disappointed when tonight the presenter held up a "duck" that was clearly a "drake" but proclaimed it a duck anyway.

I did see last weeks programme and was also quite taken aback by the treatment of the heifer, but sadly not surprised by it having seen the standard practice taken on most farms.
		
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This is standard practice on 'most' farms?? Nothing like a bit of generalisation then, and you must be very busy travelling the country visiting 'most' farms. I would strongly disagree with you, how many dairy farmers, who are mostly producing milk at a loss could both afford to leave a heifer in that situation, losing the heifer and her calf and would ignore an animal that needs help.


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## Alec Swan (18 March 2013)

Jax said:



			Well I was disappointed when tonight the presenter held up a "duck" that was clearly a "drake" but proclaimed it a duck anyway.

I did see last weeks programme and was also quite taken aback by the treatment of the heifer, but sadly not surprised by it having seen the standard practice taken on most farms.
		
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Para 1.  The drake was in fact a duck.  A duck by species.

Para 2.  Your experience of farming practice,  on "most" farms is sadly lacking and making such sweeping statements cannot go unchallenged.  The simple practicalities are that with the huge loss of finance,  with the death of and the incineration costs of that heifer,  to suggest that it's common place,  is wrong.

Alec.


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## ribbons (18 March 2013)

I was going to point that out about the duck Alec, but decided it wasn't worth the effort.
I am amazed sometimes at the outrage and huge opinions that are voiced, based on such miniscule amounts of knowledge.


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## Amymay (18 March 2013)

Has anyone contacted Countryfile for an explanation?


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## Penny Less (18 March 2013)

What is a Drake then -  a chicken !!!!!


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## jrp204 (18 March 2013)

amymay said:



			Has anyone contacted Countryfile for an explanation?
		
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Yep, got an automated email.


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## RunToEarth (18 March 2013)

Jax said:



			Well I was disappointed when tonight the presenter held up a "duck" that was clearly a "drake" but proclaimed it a duck anyway.

I did see last weeks programme and was also quite taken aback by the treatment of the heifer, but sadly not surprised by it having seen the standard practice taken on most farms.
		
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I would disagree there, coming from a dairy farm and having been to an awful lot of others I have never seen such bad practice before, any herdsman worth their salt would not neglect an animal in such a way. 

The programme is a joke, every week something else annoys me, I don't know why I watch it. It used to be a good farming programme, now it is fluffy, inconsistent, inaccurate, sometimes plain wrong. It isn't aimed at farmers anymore IMO it is for environmental/rambling/saving the world from your garden types, who would not be able to spot the issue with that poor heifer if you pointed it out to them.


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## milo'n'molly (19 March 2013)

Just wondered if anyone had contacted the farm, surely it was bad editing of the program and they'd be happy to explain.


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## jrp204 (19 March 2013)

milo'n'molly said:



			Just wondered if anyone had contacted the farm, surely it was bad editing of the program and they'd be happy to explain.
		
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There isn't a specific email address for the farm, Duchy seem to have regional offices though.


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## Alec Swan (19 March 2013)

I've just managed to track down the office number for the TV programme,  and having taken the name of the person who I was talking to,  I've been assured that someone will 'phone me back,  to,  as they put it "Address my concerns".

If they do as I'm assured they will,  then I'll report back to you! 

In the defence of the TV programme,  I will say that I think that they generally provide a near vital bridge,  for those who watch,  for the urban living and those who live their lives by agriculture.  Generally the programme has real value,  but the programme in question was less than ideal and was a totally inaccurate portrayal of normal livestock management.

Alec.


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## eahotson (19 March 2013)

Well done Alec.


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## jrp204 (19 March 2013)

Well done, I couldn't find a phone number, have emailed them twice and got the automated reply both times.


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## eahotson (21 March 2013)

Any news yet Alec?


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## Alec Swan (21 March 2013)

eahotson said:



			Any news yet Alec?
		
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I have a problem,  in that having made contact,  and having given an assurance that I will keep the thoughts of the producers,  to myself,  then that is what I must do.

I've made my thoughts clear,  to those who produce the programme,  and I'd suggest that those who seek further clarification,  do as I have done,  and make their own way forward.  

What I can tell you,  is that having spoken to a competent and highly experienced mate/livestock vet,  who also watched the programme,  that he doubted the wisdom of the transmission,  even though there are anomalies within the birthing programmes of all ruminants,  which could explain the events.  Those events were poorly explained.

"Contact C/F and ask for yourselves",  and that's the best that I can offer.  Sorry.

Alec.


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## eahotson (22 March 2013)

Well thanks for trying Alec.Very weird and a bit sinister.All this secrecy.


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## Moggy in Manolos (22 March 2013)

Landcruiser said:



			I was really shocked by this, and they were so matter of fact about it! A week!? Beggars belief!
		
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Yes my thoughts exactly, I was so shocked they had left her so long and were as you say, so matter of fact about leaving it a week!


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## eahotson (23 March 2013)

Just a thought BUT was she sent to the slaughter house, rather than being destroyed insitu so that she could enter the food chain? Bet she didn't end up on P Charles plate.If she was riddled with sceptacaemia as the programme stated she would have felt desperate.


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## Jax (27 March 2013)

Well must admit I was duped.


Used to "help out" at a couple of farms as a young *greenhorn* and was told "horror stories" by a few of the other hands, finally managed to speak to a semi retired farm hand I used to work with last weekend and he confided it was not uncommon for us young un's to get the "horror stories" as it stopped us from jumping to moonlight at other farms if we thought they were bad.

this was years ago, and I carried that all this time *insert embarrassed icon here*

So please take my comments in this thread as removed/untrue due to not knowing the truth.


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## Alec Swan (28 March 2013)

eahotson said:



			Well thanks for trying Alec.Very weird and a bit sinister.All this secrecy.
		
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Though it may appear to be,  I can assure you that it isn't sinister.  I gave my word that if they were open with me,  then I would keep their thoughts to myself,  just as I would with you,  or anyone else.

Whether they were,  in fact,  open with me is another matter!!  

I can only suggest that you do as I did,  'phone up the Countryfile offices (the relevant office is in Birmingham,  or Bristol,  I think),  and then discuss the matter with them.  I have an e/mail address for the relevant party,  if you'd like me to PM that to you.  Whether they decide to discuss the matter with you,  will be up to them.

Alec.


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## jrp204 (28 March 2013)

Alec, can you pm me the email for them, i have sent 2 messages to their main office and noone has had the courtesy to answer them.


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## cornbrodolly (28 March 2013)

would also like email address to send my concerns re this programme. please pm me too.


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