# Crufts



## satinbaze (8 March 2017)

Just thought I start a who's going thread.
I'll be there on Saturday with Lily and Tiva showing and then going to watch the obedience on Sunday. For the very first time there is a flatcoated in the championships, we are all very excited for Caroline and Tangle.
If anyone is coming on the Saturday then please pop in on hall 4 to say hi to the Flatcoats. In the catalogue the girls are listed as Satinbaze Water Lily BegEx and Blacktoft Quickstep of Satinbaze


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## Sandstone1 (8 March 2017)

Not my favourite place!  Too crowded and hate seeing the often overweight and often almost deformed examples of breeds such as bulldog and German shepherds.


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## Cahill (8 March 2017)

i went last year to see agility and the shopping,i enjoyed it but i boiled up in the car on the way home and was really ill for weeks after with a chest infection. i remember reading at the time that i was not the only one who suffered this.
must say it has put me off going this year


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## blackcob (8 March 2017)

I'll be there on Saturday with the cockerdog, he's got one last day of bog snorkelling before the great bathing process begins.  

Will be avidly watching at home on Friday as my agility instructor is in the team final as always and I spend all year chasing the ABC qualifiers so love to watch the final. Maybe one day!


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## twiggy2 (8 March 2017)

I am going tomorrow, anyone else?
Can we take our own food and drink in?


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## 3Beasties (8 March 2017)

I'm going on Saturday for me first time ever. I am SO excited  :biggrin3: :biggrin3:

I'm not competing but am lucky enough to be taking Lacey with me so of course, to celebrate the occasion, I made her a new collar :biggrin3:


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## {97702} (8 March 2017)

twiggy2 said:



			I am going tomorrow, anyone else?
Can we take our own food and drink in?
		
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Yes most definitely - the stuff there costs a fortune, all the exhibitors bring their own


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## AnotherNewbie (8 March 2017)

twiggy2 said:



			I am going tomorrow, anyone else?
Can we take our own food and drink in?
		
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I'm going tomorrow....and am just off to tescos to buy sandwich making equipment! We always take food and drink....costs a fortune once in!


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## twiggy2 (8 March 2017)

Thanks guys, yes the cost (and the queues) were why I wanted to take food.


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## Moobli (8 March 2017)

I haven't been in over ten years but used to enjoy the atmosphere, the working dog displays (esp the police dog displays), Discover Dogs and of course the multitude of stands selling everything you could possibly ever want for your dog.  I rarely watched the showing itself.

I will just watch it on TV instead.


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## MotherOfChickens (8 March 2017)

I would like to go, just once for the shopping


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## Chiffy (8 March 2017)

I am here! In the Premier Inn ready to go tomorrow. It's my Christmas present. Haven't been since it moved to Birmingham.
Sadly we couldn't do Saturday Gundogs day for the flatcoats but will enjoy the whippets.


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## {97702} (8 March 2017)

Chiffy said:



			I am here! In the Premier Inn ready to go tomorrow. It's my Christmas present. Haven't been since it moved to Birmingham.
Sadly we couldn't do Saturday Gundogs day for the flatcoats but will enjoy the whippets.
		
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Ooooo just googled, fairly decent whippet judges   I particularly like the bitch judges stock   Hope you have fun, do take pics


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## jasmine (9 March 2017)

I'm going on Friday, but not showing this year, lily is out of coat .


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## twiggy2 (9 March 2017)

WorkingGSD said:



			I haven't been in over ten years but used to enjoy the atmosphere, the working dog displays (esp the police dog displays), Discover Dogs and of course the multitude of stands selling everything you could possibly ever want for your dog.  I rarely watched the showing itself.

I will just watch it on TV instead.
		
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We won't be watching much if any showing


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## Cahill (9 March 2017)

crufts have a youtube channel,it starts at 8.30 today live.i will be watching it for the agility


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## Moobli (9 March 2017)

Cahill said:



			crufts have a youtube channel,it starts at 8.30 today live.i will be watching it for the agility 

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One of the distinct disadvantages to living in a remote place is the serious lack of unlimited broadband!  For those of us who are unable to watch online, here is the TV schedule:

Thursday 9th March
1600 &#8211; 1700 on C4
1830 &#8211; 2000 on MORE4
2000 &#8211; 2100 on C4

Friday 10th March
1600 &#8211; 1700 on C4
1830 &#8211; 1930 on MORE4
1930 &#8211; 2100 on C4

Saturday 11th March
1900 &#8211; 2100 on C4

Sunday 12 March
1800 &#8211; 2030 on C4


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## Clodagh (9 March 2017)

WorkingGSD said:



			One of the distinct disadvantages to living in a remote place is the serious lack of unlimited broadband!  For those of us who are unable to watch online, here is the TV schedule:

Thursday 9th March
1600 &#8211; 1700 on C4
1830 &#8211; 2000 on MORE4
2000 &#8211; 2100 on C4

Friday 10th March
1600 &#8211; 1700 on C4
1830 &#8211; 1930 on MORE4
1930 &#8211; 2100 on C4

Saturday 11th March
1900 &#8211; 2100 on C4

Sunday 12 March
1800 &#8211; 2030 on C4
		
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Thank you for that. I only live a mile, as the crow flies, from London's third biggest airport yet we cannot get workable broadband either. TV it will be, although I don't like a lot of the showing. The flatcoats are OK, at least they look like dogs and don't have to be strangled to trot up. The labs are so fat they can barely wobble, that does it for me.
Nothing more needs saying about the GSD, poor blighters.


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## Fellewell (9 March 2017)

Very good BIS win for a GSD bitch in New York last month (Westminster KC Show)


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## splashgirl45 (9 March 2017)

the hounds will be on soon!!!!  yippee!!!!!!


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## Clodagh (9 March 2017)

Why are they advertising French bulldogs? I know they are now discussing the health issues but couldn't they have shown someone who has a normal healthy breed?


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## MurphysMinder (9 March 2017)

Clodagh said:



			Why are they advertising French bulldogs? I know they are now discussing the health issues but couldn't they have shown someone who has a normal healthy breed?
		
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Actually I think they are doing a pretty good job of showing the problems with fancy colours etc.


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## Clodagh (9 March 2017)

Yes I admit they did talk at length about them, but you would now think that a KC reg one will be able to breathe. 50% can't at that test place, that is a scary figure when you think only a lucky few go there for surgery.


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## MurphysMinder (9 March 2017)

Just because something is KC reg does not mean it is healthily bred unfortunately,  and despite what they were saying that even applies to some Assured Breeers.


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## ester (9 March 2017)

Because they made a big thing of Ewan having bought one called Frank on more4 earlier.


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## Clodagh (9 March 2017)

ester said:



			Because they made a big thing of Ewan having bought one called Frank on more4 earlier.
		
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Yes I saw that, which was what triggered my comment, yet another push for an intrinsicly unhealthy breed.


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## ester (9 March 2017)

I was just pleased that having brought it up intermittently for the last half hour/hour that they did discuss the issues with them further. 

I guess we know what all the other presenters have breed wise so it had to come up. 

I was most amused by the suggestion that if you were thinking of a labrador consider an irish setter


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## Clodagh (9 March 2017)

Those dachshunds look freaky. Get the pup wanting to bite the judge!


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## splashgirl45 (9 March 2017)

love the deerhound, my favourite breed,,,lovely whippet as well


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## Clodagh (9 March 2017)

I loved the greyhound's colour. Fawn? The Ibezan hound was smart. At least the otter hound looked happy!


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## Clodagh (9 March 2017)

ester said:



			I was just pleased that having brought it up intermittently for the last half hour/hour that they did discuss the issues with them further. 

I guess we know what all the other presenters have breed wise so it had to come up. 

I was most amused by the suggestion that if you were thinking of a labrador consider an irish setter 

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Didn't see that. Mmmm...


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## KittenInTheTree (9 March 2017)

Why on this planet or any other did that bloke spend eight months and who knows what resources training a spaniel to track cats???!? How the actual expletive of choice is that a specialist talent that is needed? And why did Balding and the other woman then infer that the concept of dogs possibly being able to also learn to track humans by scent was also new and amazing? Dogs have been used to do exactly that for centuries - has someone rewritten history?

Don't even get me started on the fluffy, long legged creatures masquerading as JRTs.


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## Clodagh (9 March 2017)

KittenInTheTree said:



			Why on this planet or any other did that bloke spend eight months and who knows what resources training a spaniel to track cats???!? How the actual expletive of choice is that a specialist talent that is needed? And why did Balding and the other woman then infer that the concept of dogs possibly being able to also learn to track humans by scent was also new and amazing? Dogs have been used to do exactly that for centuries - has someone rewritten history?

Don't even get me started on the fluffy, long legged creatures masquerading as JRTs.
		
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Very much agree there. Why highlight a skill that is a mockery when they could have shown how dogs are saving lives.


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## Sandstone1 (9 March 2017)

KittenInTheTree said:



			Why on this planet or any other did that bloke spend eight months and who knows what resources training a spaniel to track cats???!? How the actual expletive of choice is that a specialist talent that is needed? And why did Balding and the other woman then infer that the concept of dogs possibly being able to also learn to track humans by scent was also new and amazing? Dogs have been used to do exactly that for centuries - has someone rewritten history?

Don't even get me started on the fluffy, long legged creatures masquerading as JRTs.
		
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Have to agree.  I thought it was just me missing something.  Haven't dogs been used to find missing people for a very long time?  As for tracking cats, most dogs would do this anyway.  Bit puzzled to be honest.


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## MurphysMinder (9 March 2017)

KittenInTheTree said:



			Why on this planet or any other did that bloke spend eight months and who knows what resources training a spaniel to track cats???!? How the actual expletive of choice is that a specialist talent that is needed? And why did Balding and the other woman then infer that the concept of dogs possibly being able to also learn to track humans by scent was also new and amazing? Dogs have been used to do exactly that for centuries - has someone rewritten history?

Don't even get me started on the fluffy, long legged creatures masquerading as JRTs.
		
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I came back in the room when that was on and thought i had missed something and cat was some weird acronym.   I'd like to volunteer my dogs as rabbit and squirrel detection dogs,  fully trained


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## MotherOfChickens (9 March 2017)

lost the will to live earlier (somewhere between clingy collars and the terriers) and turned it off.


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## JulesRules (9 March 2017)

I'll be there on Saturday. Never been before which is silly as I live 10 minutes from the NEC. 

Need to check what is on as I haven't even looked yet. Hopefully will see some Agility, esp as Ava and I will miss our Saturday agility session.


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## Esmae (9 March 2017)

Disappointing coverage. I would have liked to see a bit more of the judging and the dogs and less of the Clare and Ewen Show really.


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## Annette4 (9 March 2017)

Judging was fixed, 1st and 2nd hound were the wrong way around


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## Bosworth (9 March 2017)

I missed the terrier group judging, and despite trawling the internet, I cant seem to get it. Has anyone got a direct link to it?


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## Nicnac (9 March 2017)

Satinbaze - Say Hi to Gemma.  She'll be showing my boy's Dad - Hugo Boss in the Open on Saturday. I have two of his son's.  Good luck!


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## MurphysMinder (10 March 2017)

Bosworth said:



			I missed the terrier group judging, and despite trawling the internet, I cant seem to get it. Has anyone got a direct link to it?
		
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Live coverage plus yesterdays big ring action here,  if the link works.


https://www.youtube.com/user/OfficialCrufts


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## Bosworth (10 March 2017)

thank you MurphysMinder  i could ot get that to show last night


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## splashgirl45 (10 March 2017)

Annette4 said:



			Judging was fixed, 1st and 2nd hound were the wrong way around 

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i would have liked it the other way round as well....


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## Moobli (10 March 2017)

Fellewell said:



			Very good BIS win for a GSD bitch in New York last month (Westminster KC Show)
		
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Not keen on the ASL types either, although she was less exaggerated than many.


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## Moobli (10 March 2017)

Clodagh said:



			Very much agree there. Why highlight a skill that is a mockery when they could have shown how dogs are saving lives.
		
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Totally agree!


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## MotherOfChickens (10 March 2017)

anyone know when/if the vulnerable breeds will be shown please? Fitz has a claim to fame


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## Clodagh (10 March 2017)

Is it a seperate class? I thought smooth collies would be utility? (Know nothing of showing).


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## MurphysMinder (10 March 2017)

MotherOfChickens said:



			anyone know when/if the vulnerable breeds will be shown please? Fitz has a claim to fame 

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I dont know if it will be on tv coverage.  If you go to the live coverage on youtube you can then move the curser back and watch earlier classes,  or alternatively it should be available tomorrow on youtube as a separate class.


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## Moobli (10 March 2017)

Clodagh said:



			Is it a seperate class? I thought smooth collies would be utility? (Know nothing of showing).
		
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Smooth collies will be pastoral


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## MurphysMinder (10 March 2017)

Clodagh said:



			Is it a seperate class? I thought smooth collies would be utility? (Know nothing of showing).
		
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Smooth collies are pastoral.  however there is a separate class for one representative of each vulnerable breed (i.e. less than 300 pups registered in a year).


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## {97702} (10 March 2017)

Annette4 said:



			Judging was fixed, 1st and 2nd hound were the wrong way around 

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I've already said I rate the bitch judge for the whippets so I shall assume that is a nice specimen   I won't watch Crufts as the rubbish they talk about hounds is unbelievable....

Mind you it did make me giggle tonight, rang my mum to congratulate her on her second place (knowing she would be really annoyed at not winning the class!) only to find they had made a mistake on the numbers and she wasn't second at all    she thought it was all very funny.... 

ETA - just seen the bitch whippet judge has changed!  Still, a nice pic of the BOB online


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## MotherOfChickens (10 March 2017)

MurphysMinder said:



			I dont know if it will be on tv coverage.  If you go to the live coverage on youtube you can then move the curser back and watch earlier classes,  or alternatively it should be available tomorrow on youtube as a separate class.
		
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thank you!


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## MurphysMinder (10 March 2017)

Was the smooth a relative of Fitz,  well done if so.


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## MotherOfChickens (10 March 2017)

MurphysMinder said:



			Was the smooth a relative of Fitz,  well done if so.
		
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grandmother (probably not the right terminology!).


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## Amicus (10 March 2017)

I'm watching day one on catch up - the cat finding dog feels like satire... Especially when they started chatting about how if a dog could be trained to find a cat they could be trained to find a person after saying two mins previous that's what inspired him.


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## Moobli (10 March 2017)

That is one FAST whippet .... wow!!

https://www.facebook.com/Crufts/videos/10155101024619878/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED


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## chillipup (10 March 2017)

WorkingGSD said:



			That is one FAST whippet .... wow!!

https://www.facebook.com/Crufts/videos/10155101024619878/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED

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Just a bit WGSD, faster than a speeding bullet! fabulous


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## Karran (10 March 2017)

They're slightly terrifying ain't they!? They seem even faster when you see in reality!


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## npage123 (10 March 2017)

I'm extremely saddened to have heard of the passing away on 16/02/17 of the Staffordshire Bull Terrier breed's CC record holder, the absolutely gorgeous CH Valglo Casanova at Crossguns (Vinnie). He's my Staffie's Daddy so I've always had a very soft spot for him.  I'm very privileged to have a Staffie with Vinnie's good genes and lovely temperament, and he lives on in the many lovely Staffies that he helped to create over many years. RIP Vinnie :'(


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## Clodagh (11 March 2017)

MurphysMinder said:



			Smooth collies are pastoral.  however there is a separate class for one representative of each vulnerable breed (i.e. less than 300 pups registered in a year).
		
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Oh my, I really should have known the pastoral bit! Sorry.


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## PucciNPoni (11 March 2017)

I'm gutted I have not been able to go this year (or rather chose not to) because it's been an ace show so far.  Not that I'm biased or anything (LOL) but I was super pleased to see Melanie Harwood's min take the group last night.   I will be so excited / nervous for Sunday now, just watching from home!


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## Moobli (11 March 2017)

My sister is showing her Italian Spinone today, so I will be watching with interest later


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## Moobli (11 March 2017)

The West Midlands Police Dog Display Team always put on a cracking display and this year was no exception.  Brilliant!  (And my favourite part of the four days).


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## Amymay (11 March 2017)

Well! Flat coat should have taken that.

Pretty shocked actually.


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## Fools Motto (11 March 2017)

amymay said:



			Well! Flat coat should have taken that.

Pretty shocked actually.
		
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I agree.


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## Moobli (11 March 2017)

amymay said:



			Well! Flat coat should have taken that.

Pretty shocked actually.
		
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Agreed.  My money was on the Flattie.


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## MurphysMinder (11 March 2017)

The flat coat was lovely.  I'm sure the American Cocker is a lovely little dog but to me it doesn't belong in the gundog group,  no way any variation of that could work.


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## Nicnac (11 March 2017)

amymay said:



			Well! Flat coat should have taken that.

Pretty shocked actually.
		
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Absolutely! Can't see that cocker working other than on a catwalk.


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## Esmae (11 March 2017)

amymay said:



			Well! Flat coat should have taken that.

Pretty shocked actually.
		
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Absolutely agree.


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## MotherOfChickens (11 March 2017)

WorkingGSD said:



			My sister is showing her Italian Spinone today, so I will be watching with interest later 

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congrats to your sister


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## satinbaze (11 March 2017)

Ok I'm going to shock you all. That is NOT a typical flatcoat. He is very flashy but not a true workman like dog a flatcoat should be. You probably cannot tell on the TV but he is huge I suspect about 4 inches taller than breed standard. Sorry but I really don't like him. Now ducking for cover


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## Cinnamontoast (11 March 2017)

Long haired pointer looks like a springer. Never heard of that variety. 

American cocker won?! What the heck could that retrieve?! A bloody sparrow?! Massive boo. The feather is ridiculous. Looking at one of my springers motorbiking round the woods today, how on earth does an American cocker compare? It's a lapdog.


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## WandaMare (12 March 2017)

Had a fun day there yesterday, hadn't been for years and couldn't believe how massive the event is now. Best part for me was walking round the breed tents and just chatting to the owners of all the different breeds, particularly the unusual ones. I really loved the Italian Spinone (I might have spoken to your sister MoC) and also the Spanish water dogs were fab. I could have taken any of those home  The Spanish water dogs look so strong and fit, really compact little dogs. There were lots of American cockers there, they seemed to be everywhere, so wasn't surprised to see one won the group.

It was also nice to see the Assistance dogs and I spoke to a mum of a little boy whose life had been transformed by their dog, he was there with the dog and she was telling me how before they found him, she couldn't even take her son to the shops. And there he was having a great time on one of the busiest days of Crufts, just amazing. 

The only complaint I had was the halls were so hot, especially the upper level halls, it must have been horrible for the really hairy dogs. The owners said the dogs were used to it but even though it can't be healthy for them. Lots of them were panting on their benches. Really glad I went though, its a good chance to support the dog charities and learn more about the fab work people are doing with their dogs.


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## Llanali (12 March 2017)

And if you all watch episode 2, on catch up, the opening credits with Clare doing a voice over feature a small child kissing her saluki- that's my child and one of my Salukis! 

Nothing in the breed ring for us this year, but judging was true and fair and excellent winners chosen, particularly best bitch. 

We then manned the discover dogs stand for the whole afternoon, and enjoyed helping people understand more about Salukis!


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## Thistle (12 March 2017)

Nicnac said:



			Satinbaze - Say Hi to Gemma.  She'll be showing my boy's Dad - Hugo Boss in the Open on Saturday. I have two of his son's.  Good luck!
		
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I know Gemma and most of her dogs!


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## Thistle (12 March 2017)

cinnamontoast said:



			Long haired pointer looks like a springer. Never heard of that variety. 

American cocker won?! What the heck could that retrieve?! A bloody sparrow?! Massive boo. The feather is ridiculous. Looking at one of my springers motorbiking round the woods today, how on earth does an American cocker compare? It's a lapdog.
		
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I always thought that too, as not a fan of ACS, however the trainer I use for gundog work also trains some ACS, I met them once, the day after they had been showing, all covered in burrs and muck, very happy little dogs who can actually be trained to retrieve smaller birds. Full credit to their owner for encouraging them to work.


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## sywell (12 March 2017)

The winner of the gundogs would last 1 minute in my brambels my GSP would go through like a knive through butter. i wounder what it would do if someone fired a gun?


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## Moobli (12 March 2017)

MotherOfChickens said:



			congrats to your sister 

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Thank you   She was very pleased.


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## Moobli (12 March 2017)

Thistle said:



			I always thought that too, as not a fan of ACS, however the trainer I use for gundog work also trains some ACS, I met them once, the day after they had been showing, all covered in burrs and muck, very happy little dogs who can actually be trained to retrieve smaller birds. Full credit to their owner for encouraging them to work.
		
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I must admit I was scoffing along with everyone else that the least likely gundog won the gundog group.  However, this morning on my FB the first thing I see is an ACS actually retrieving a dead bird - so some must be able to still do a variation of the work at least.

https://www.facebook.com/yellowdog8...744324826824/1270471946354053/?type=3&theater


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## PucciNPoni (12 March 2017)

Remember that breed judging is when dogs are judged against their OWN breed standard, and their own type.  Not against what another dog's breed and type.  That's like saying that a toy poodle wouldn't last a minute against a Rottweiler when doing guard work, for example.  They are different breeds, and each has been developed to do a different job.  And these are show dogs - the get Sh Ch and some do obtain Field ch status.


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## Moobli (12 March 2017)

I will be watching the BOB GSD with interest later, after the backlash last year and the new rules for the breed in place this year.


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## Moobli (12 March 2017)

satinbaze said:



			Ok I'm going to shock you all. That is NOT a typical flatcoat. He is very flashy but not a true workman like dog a flatcoat should be. You probably cannot tell on the TV but he is huge I suspect about 4 inches taller than breed standard. Sorry but I really don't like him. Now ducking for cover
		
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Very interesting.  I don't know much about the breed but thought he looked great in the ring - not as a working dog, but as a show dog.  Would his flashiness in the ring have made him stand out from the crowd?


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## blackcob (12 March 2017)

I'm a bit torn about the comments on the ACS. On the one hand, nobody is claiming it's a working dog - it's a show dog, in a show ring, doing a cracking job at showing. I understand that the judge has an interest in ACS so would have been hyper critical of it and must have thought it a top notch example of the breed. 

On the other hand, it's an absolute caricature of the cocker spaniel, of which the show type is already almost on the limit of what I would consider acceptable in terms of exaggerated features. I say that with the greatest affection, I spent all day yesterday around the cocker rings with a lovely snoring lump of one on my lap, but he'd be no less a cocker with slightly shorter ears and a less profuse coat.


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## satinbaze (12 March 2017)

WorkingGSD said:



			Very interesting.  I don't know much about the breed but thought he looked great in the ring - not as a working dog, but as a show dog.  Would his flashiness in the ring have made him stand out from the crowd?
		
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For me the best flatcoat of recent years was jet aka Vbos the Kentuckian who won BIS at crufts in 2011. He was a fabulous example of the breed with both breed type and showmanship. 
Here is a link to his picture
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/flat_coated_retriever/dog.html?id=999224-vbos-the-kentuckian


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## Annette4 (12 March 2017)

We'll both Corgis got pulled but I'm willing to put money on them not taking group.


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## Sandstone1 (12 March 2017)

WorkingGSD said:



			I will be watching the BOB GSD with interest later, after the backlash last year and the new rules for the breed in place this year.
		
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Looks very much better than the one last year in my opinion anyway.  Still has a sloping back but moves much better.


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## CorvusCorax (12 March 2017)

Seven year old female with a lot of wins under her belt both here and internationally from both German and all-round judges. Steve Cox always puts 100% into his presentation in the big ring. A huge improvement on last year but a lot of work still to be done.


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## CorvusCorax (12 March 2017)

Alan to win


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## Amymay (12 March 2017)

Hey ho


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## Nicnac (12 March 2017)

Thistle said:



			I know Gemma and most of her dogs!
		
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Small world!


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## millikins (12 March 2017)

Well I think that was a bit flat. I know absolutely nothing about showing dogs but the final seemed to me more about novelty than anything else.


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## splashgirl45 (13 March 2017)

this year they seemed to rush through the judging and we didnt get a good look at each dog.  they seemed to spend more time talking and generally messing about, i could have done without ewen, alan and noel and would have just liked comments from the experts. couldnt really get interested this year so just dipped in and out.....loved the agilty and flyball though...


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## MurphysMinder (13 March 2017)

splashgirl45 said:



			this year they seemed to rush through the judging and we didnt get a good look at each dog.  they seemed to spend more time talking and generally messing about, i could have done without ewen, alan and noel and would have just liked comments from the experts. couldnt really get interested this year so just dipped in and out.....loved the agilty and flyball though...
		
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I watched it all online,  showed each dogs individual in the groups,  plus loads of flyball and agility.   I don't think I'll bother with the tv coverage next year.


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## splashgirl45 (13 March 2017)

looks like i will have to look on line next year as i wont even bother with the tv coverage if its like this years...


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## Chiffy (13 March 2017)

I agree, didn't enjoy the tv coverage. Too much chat and aimed at people who knew nothing about dogs.
Not enough chance to really look and compare the show dogs.
Did think the standard of agility and fly ball was amazing though.


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## SatansLittleHelper (14 March 2017)

**ahem**
I have 3 American Cockers. All in show coat (yes they are shown) and yes they spend 90% of their life eating horse crap and getting bloody filthy. They are most definitely NOT lapdogs! I admit that the breed are in the minority as gundogs these days which is a shame 
They are perfectly capable of retrieving decent sized game despite their small stature and they will keep going all day.
With all of the furore on FB etc about the Yank winning I'm somewhat fed up of people's rather uneducated assumptions about the breed. Don't let the fluff fool you, underneath the frill there is an incredibly intelligent, work minded little dog!!!


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## PucciNPoni (14 March 2017)

SatansLittleHelper said:



			**ahem**
I have 3 American Cockers. All in show coat (yes they are shown) and yes they spend 90% of their life eating horse crap and getting bloody filthy. They are most definitely NOT lapdogs! I admit that the breed are in the minority as gundogs these days which is a shame 
They are perfectly capable of retrieving decent sized game despite their small stature and they will keep going all day.
With all of the furore on FB etc about the Yank winning I'm somewhat fed up of people's rather uneducated assumptions about the breed. Don't let the fluff fool you, underneath the frill there is an incredibly intelligent, work minded little dog!!!
		
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I know a few and while it takes a lot of work keeping their show coats nice, the ones that I know aren't molly coddled indoors and kept pristine.  

I feel kind of bad too for Afterglow kennels because there was much chat about how Ricky was never allowed to get dirty, and was kept kennelled (right before and after he won three years ago).  They did a great feature in some of the papers which showed him running in the sea, running in muddy fields and then standing for his groom.  Most of us who have show dogs have dogs who can do both.

In fact, there are some cracking photos of the afterglow dogs on their website looking like well....muddy retrievers.


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## The Fuzzy Furry (14 March 2017)

Ref the TV coverage, my non-dog DH (he wouldn't have chosen to watch normally) actually sat through 3 nights of crufts & said he enjoyed watching as mostly snapshots etc. 
It was def aimed at 'everyone' but big shame not more on each.

However, a bit like major horse champs - DH can sit through 3 or 4 dressage tests before walking off, so I watch more in depth on line if this happens.

As he commented last night, some people only watch the highlights of motorbike racing (WSB, Moto GP, BSB etc) whilst if he's not racing that weekend, DH will depart to sofa for several hours over 3 days or so to watch the whole shebang - practice, qualifying, warm up, racing and the interviews in between


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## MurphysMinder (14 March 2017)

If anyone wants to watch the groups etc in more detail they are all on here

https://www.youtube.com/user/OfficialCrufts


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## MurphysMinder (14 March 2017)

I stand corrected SLH,  I would just like to see a lot less coat on a dog that was going to be working in cover.   I did think he was a nice little dog but just didn't look right in the gundog group.  One thing that I didn't like,  throughout nearly all the interview with Clare Balding the handler seemed to be holding the dogs mouth shut,  not sure why as in the ring he had a lovely smiley face and we weren't able to see it


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## Moobli (14 March 2017)

satinbaze said:



			For me the best flatcoat of recent years was jet aka Vbos the Kentuckian who won BIS at crufts in 2011. He was a fabulous example of the breed with both breed type and showmanship. 
Here is a link to his picture
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/flat_coated_retriever/dog.html?id=999224-vbos-the-kentuckian

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That is a beautiful dog too.


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## Moobli (14 March 2017)

Sandstone1 said:



			Looks very much better than the one last year in my opinion anyway.  Still has a sloping back but moves much better.
		
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Yes I agree.  This year's winner, Veneze Gucci, is less angulated in structure and her temperament much more solid than last year's winner.  Steve Cox, who is a top GSD handler, did a great job of showing her off to her best.  So definitely a step in the right direction.

I would have loved to have seen this dog in the final line up - but he wasn't placed at all.

http://www.freelindreamsleonwilson.be/298346550?b=65AD90DC58FA7CD24BC68EE6039C54A157354


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## Moobli (14 March 2017)

SatansLittleHelper said:



			**ahem**
I have 3 American Cockers. All in show coat (yes they are shown) and yes they spend 90% of their life eating horse crap and getting bloody filthy. They are most definitely NOT lapdogs! I admit that the breed are in the minority as gundogs these days which is a shame 
They are perfectly capable of retrieving decent sized game despite their small stature and they will keep going all day.
With all of the furore on FB etc about the Yank winning I'm somewhat fed up of people's rather uneducated assumptions about the breed. Don't let the fluff fool you, underneath the frill there is an incredibly intelligent, work minded little dog!!!
		
Click to expand...

Great to hear


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## MotherOfChickens (14 March 2017)

I am not anti-showing but not into showing anything (horses, poultry etc). I've only been to one dog show (SKC Spring Ch last year to look at some different breeds. Have to say I found it somewhat grim with some tired and untidy looking handlers, bored dogs and the hall stank of dog pee.) and it put me off going to many more although I will give the Scottish Breeds Show a chance.

I was wondering though, do any non-flash breeds ever win BIS at Crufts?


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## Moobli (14 March 2017)

MurphysMinder said:



			I stand corrected SLH,  I would just like to see a lot less coat on a dog that was going to be working in cover.   I did think he was a nice little dog but just didn't look right in the gundog group.  One thing that I didn't like,  throughout nearly all the interview with Clare Balding the handler seemed to be holding the dogs mouth shut,  not sure why as in the ring he had a lovely smiley face and we weren't able to see it
		
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Yes I noticed that and also when the judge was going over him in the BIS too.  Bizarre.


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## Moobli (14 March 2017)

MotherOfChickens said:



			I am not anti-showing but not into showing anything (horses, poultry etc). I've only been to one dog show (SKC Spring Ch last year to look at some different breeds. Have to say I found it somewhat grim with some tired and untidy looking handlers, bored dogs and the hall stank of dog pee.) and it put me off going to many more although I will give the Scottish Breeds Show a chance.

I was wondering though, do any non-flash breeds ever win BIS at Crufts?
		
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Perhaps best to make your own mind up on that one ...

http://www.crufts.org.uk/content/whats-on/best-in-show-winners/


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## MotherOfChickens (14 March 2017)

WorkingGSD said:



			Yes I noticed that and also when the judge was going over him in the BIS too.  Bizarre.
		
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maybe he's snappy? we had lots of snappy dogs at the vets that were shown.


are there character tests for show dogs here as there are in Scandinavia?


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## Laura2408 (14 March 2017)

Working GSD- I think the dog in the link is exactly what we should be promoting!

What. Shame he didn't even get a look in. I wonder if the show type is too hard to get away from for the judges.

I noticed a bsd almost got pastoral but beaten by the fluffier flashier old English.


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## CorvusCorax (14 March 2017)

Not passing comment on the dog in question, I quite liked him, but I saw a few very shy/windy dogs in the group rings on TV, which for me is a real bugbear. And I don't mean 'aloof'.
A good judge should put an unhappy dog out of the ring, no matter how good the conformation, IMO.


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## MotherOfChickens (14 March 2017)

WorkingGSD said:



			Perhaps best to make your own mind up on that one ...

http://www.crufts.org.uk/content/whats-on/best-in-show-winners/

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sometimes then-thanks for the link!


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## CorvusCorax (14 March 2017)

Gucci is also a daughter of Elmo, who won the pastoral group a few years back, out of interest.

Again, if anyone is interested, the three GSDS which won BIS at Crufts, were all considered by breed historians to have/produce weak characters and at least two carried epilepsy in their lines.


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## blackcob (14 March 2017)

I've finally twigged where I've seen pictures of American cockers working but sadly can't find the original to scan the full article and pics. This was from the quarterly Crufts magazine, I think around 2014, and was a collection of articles about unusual working dogs. Excuse the striking out, they used my name multiple times in the text.


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## ester (14 March 2017)

I was wondering what they looked like out of show clip


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## Moobli (15 March 2017)

CorvusCorax said:



			Not passing comment on the dog in question, I quite liked him, but I saw a few very shy/windy dogs in the group rings on TV, which for me is a real bugbear. And I don't mean 'aloof'.
A good judge should put an unhappy dog out of the ring, no matter how good the conformation, IMO.
		
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Temperament should be paramount along with health, I entirely agree.  Did you see the dog I linked too in the flesh?  Any photos/video?


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## MotherOfChickens (15 March 2017)

blackcob said:



			I've finally twigged where I've seen pictures of American cockers working but sadly can't find the original to scan the full article and pics. This was from the quarterly Crufts magazine, I think around 2014, and was a collection of articles about unusual working dogs. Excuse the striking out, they used my name multiple times in the text. 

Click to expand...

you have husky recall?! very impressed


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## blackcob (15 March 2017)

For 60 seconds in an agility ring, maybe.  

I still can't find the full article which is a shame but you get the idea, they mention having no success with a dobe and a lurcher but the ACS seems to retain enough working instinct.


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## CorvusCorax (15 March 2017)

No WGSD, as mentioned what I saw was from the TV. Not familiar with the dog linked or the kennel but some well known names in the pedigrees.


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## MotherOfChickens (15 March 2017)

blackcob said:



			For 60 seconds in an agility ring, maybe. 

Click to expand...

still impressive considering I was threatened with shooting if I so much as let a husky go outside


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## blackcob (15 March 2017)

I do still respect the breed club and rescue line, they are on-lead dogs at all other times (prey drive!) and I wouldn't advise that anyone get one with the expectation of being to let them off on walks. Most agility venues are secure enough and we train indoors anyway.

I think she was still G1 when that article was published, now G5 with one win under her belt.


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## MotherOfChickens (15 March 2017)

I think its brilliant  

I am getting tempted to maybe try agility again. The club I tried years ago was horrible but there are loads to choose from round here so should be able to find a fun one.


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