# Made to measure saddles- any experiences/advice?



## Mavis007 (14 January 2012)

I am currently competing at elementary BD and working towards medium. I have been told by my instructor(s) that my dressage saddle is not doing either of us any favours  I have to use a rear riser pad at the moment as he is much higher in front than behind. Also, my saddle is an 18" which I found I needed as I have long legs. Someone has finally told me after all these years that what I actually need is a 17.5" saddle so I am more secure in it, but with longer flaps with blocks in the right position (I also struggle to stay with him in medium trot when sitting). I have come to the conclusion my best bet is to get a saddle made to fit both of us. I have looked at a few different ones (although not tried any on him yet) and they do vary in price so much. I have been recommended by various people: Ideal Suzannah (should be able to get for under £1000), a Barnsby dressage saddle (~£1800), a Sue Carson dressage saddle (~£2000) and an Equippe (~£2600). At the moment I can't really afford any (but need someone to hide my credit card from me ) Does anyone have any experience with made to measure saddles? Do you get what you pay for? Or could we both be just as happy with the Ideal as the Equippe (and a lot less in debt...)


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## mtj (15 January 2012)

My horse has a made to measure dressage saddle as he is wither high, and also needs a rear riser in a standard saddle.

He has an Albion platinum as I wanted to ensure the saddle would be (width) adjustable.

If I remember correctly, it cost another £100 on top of the normal price of the saddle.  This was 5/6 years ago.

I'm very happy with the saddle and saddler checks fit every six months.

Key factor is the person doing the fittings.


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## Ferdinase514 (15 January 2012)

Really depends on whether your horse is a tricky shape to fit. If so, then yes it's worth the money, otherwise just go for a second hand one 

Made to measure will depreciate rapidly once you have bought them and you wont get anything like your money back if you come to sell it.


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## Oldenburg (15 January 2012)

I had one made by Pennwood!! I will not bother again as the saddle never fitted right and always had to be reflocked at a £20 call out charge  every time it need it plus £45 the reflocking on top would not mind 2 times a year but over 5 times is stupid!! £1500 it cost me won't be doing it again in a hurry!!


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## blood_magik (15 January 2012)

I've loved all of mine  
I've had one by Andrew Gould (would still have it if horse hadn't rolled in it and broken the tree).
current saddles are by apg equine 
I won't buy off the shelf again.


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## Sol (15 January 2012)

My issue with made to measure (and why I've never gone for one) is that the horse is likely to change shape all year round. The saddle - made to measure or not - wont. Plus, I imagine that made to measure saddles are much harder to sell on if you find yourself needing a new one!


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## Slinkyunicorn (15 January 2012)

I have had one made to measure by Stubben - is fantastic and still fits both my horse and myself perfectly. I have it checked by both my back lady and saddler every year and it has never needed any alterations to date - i have had it for 10 years. It never moves on the horse and is comfy for me - we have been out for 4 hours at a time in it - was definitely worth every penny - it cost 1.5k 10 years ago. 

Otherwise I would suggest you get a good saddler out who should have a slection of saddles to try - when mine came to sort out a dressage saddle he came with choice - I ended up up with 3 that fitted bith me and the horse so then rode in all 3 of them to decide which felt the best for me - the cheapest was about £800 and the most expensive was 1.6k  the one I ended up with was 1.2k but it was the one that fitted us both and just felt the most comfortable for me - no huge leg rolls.


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## Broodle (15 January 2012)

I had a saddle mtm by barnsby because both me and my horse are non-std shapes. I am petite, but have long legs for my height, so was great to be able to have a small seat but more fwd cut flaps.

Am delighted with my saddle, and somehow paid less than list price too! Also took advantage of barnsby's installment payment plan, which was v helpful.


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## Bosworth (15 January 2012)

my saddles are all made to measure and cost me no more than a good off the shelf saddle. Mine are all Barry Swain Saddles. I chose the panel, the skirts, the material, and everything was made to my specification and my horses. 


Also OP you need to beware of raising the back of the saddle, if your saddle is too high at the front it is too narrow for your horse so raising the back will probably cause it to bridge.


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## popsdosh (15 January 2012)

Get a really good and respected saddler out with a selection of saddles to try and take it from there if nothing is right get one made to measure by all means .Realistically though a made to measure will worth 50% of what you pay the moment you first sit on it.


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## Mavis007 (15 January 2012)

Thanks everyone  I hadn't thought about the future value issue but I certainly have no plans to sell him so hopefully not an issue and as he is now rising 9yrs and very fit I am hoping he won't change shape too much. 
I like the sound of the Barnsby payment plan- would be very grateful if you could give me any more info on it Broodle. Do they charge interest, how long over etc??? Definitely sounds like it could be an option. I see you are also Bristol way- did you get someone local to fit your saddle or someone directly from Barnsby? Thanks


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## rlhnlk (15 January 2012)

I've got a made to measure devoucoux dressage saddle for mine, I had a jump one first then when I switched to dressage my girl spat the dummy at every saddle other than the one she has now. I love my saddle and I've nopt had any problems with it, they are adjustable for around £200 I think, but bizarely mine never seem to not fit, even when she changes shape - I have no idea how that works but it really does.


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## star (15 January 2012)

i've just ordered a M2M dressage saddle from someone locally as my horse isn't easy to fit - v high withers and quite a curvy back profile.  I'm also very long from hip to knee but like a narrow twist so finding a saddle to suit us both off the peg wasn't really going to happen.  Had one on trial from this lady for a week and it was lovely so have bitten the bullet and ordered my own.  Am aware of the depreciation issue but hoping he has got many yrs in it yet and if not I'll just have to buy another horse the same shape!  It is costing me £1350 and is a similar sort of design to the Albion SLK Ultima which is £2000.  Gotta wait 6wks for it so just hope it's worth it!


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## sbloom (15 January 2012)

Bosworth said:



			Also OP you need to beware of raising the back of the saddle, if your saddle is too high at the front it is too narrow for your horse so raising the back will probably cause it to bridge.
		
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There are two basic reasons for a saddle to be pommel high and only one is that it is too narrow - the other is that the panel is too deep in front and/or too shallow behind, and adding a riser pad is a good temporary fix and will not necessarily make the saddle bridge.  Het the right width of tree for the horse, THEN balance it with panel depth etc.

Most of the examples referred to here are actually tweaked bench made saddles - perhaps a slighty deeper rear gusset, a half an inch added to the front or length of the flap, or a tree from one saddle but the design of another.  Any bench made saddle maker can do this. 

What I do tend to see is that the more a saddle is customised in fit for a horse, the less versatile in the fit it is - somehow off the peg saddles tend to fit more horses, and even if the original horse that the saddle fitted is the same, ie if it didn't absolutely need a M2M.  Horses do change and a M2M saddle is no better than any other in that respect and if a very exacting fit it may be worse.  It is also true about them being harder to selll - much easier for the buyer if they understand exactly what they are getting, and a stock saddle fulfills that. 

I've yet to see a horse that needs much tweaking to an in stock design, just the odd deeper rear panel etc, but the odd rider needs tweaks.  I don't generally recommend M2M unless you really have to - you tend to have to pay a larger non-refundable deposit and your legal position is slightly trickier. 

If all you need is a rear riser, and a slightly more forward flap (a longer straight flap does not give extra femur room unless you ride longer if you think about the physics) then you should simply hunt for a saddle with those design features - I bet you can find one with the help of a good fitter.


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## TarrSteps (15 January 2012)

The above bears repeating.  That's certainly been my experience.  I've seen people pay THOUSANDS to get a completely custom saddle to fix a problem, once and for all, only to be having a problem with it again in mere months.  And, as above, reselling such a saddle is difficult and bound to result in a massive lost, for the simple reason it won't fit many other horses.  My experience and observation of "custom made" saddles has, alas, not really been a positive one.  Perhaps that's because one expects perfection from a custom saddle, but the end result is the same.

Semi-custom or "customised" is a different deal.  If you are a "non-standard" shape having a slightly different flap can make all the difference.  You might very well find a make that fits you off the rack - Passiers almost always fit me, Keiffers almost never fit me - then it just depends if it's something the either fits your horse or can be made to fit your horse.

Also, if you get a good quality "name" used saddle, the company may be able to do a fair bit for you to customise it.  I asked about having a completely different panel put on a Passier that fits me well, to fit a different horse and it was significantly less than a new (used) saddle.  Same with the "adjustable" tree saddles now - if you get something close to what you need it can often be altered.  Of course that's a leap of faith as you can't try it with the alteration, but worth keeping in mind.

The big name saddles have stood the test of time for a reason, because many horses go well in them.  Of course there are always exceptions but, as above, making an exception for every horse isn't necessarily necessary or even a good plan.  Good bench made saddles will offer you a range of proven options and, in many cases, you can even at least sort of try before you buy by fitting saddles with some of the options you want and extrapolating from there.


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## Broodle (15 January 2012)

Mavis007:  I went to barnsby directly, and they put me in touch with a local fitter who has now moved on. Think Wendy eames is their new bod in this area.

Re the payment plan, I paid a 25% deposit then monthly installments for a year. No interest, amazingly!


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## BombayMix (15 January 2012)

Have a look at WOW saddles


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## Mavis007 (15 January 2012)

Thank you very much everyone  It does sound like I need a customised "normal saddle" with an extra deep rear gusset and more forward flaps for my long legs. 
Thanks Broodle, that payment plan sounds excellent from Barnsby, definitely well worth considering. 
I have been looking at WOW saddles but again get varying views. It basically seems to depend how good your local fitter is and I am really not sure whether my local one is any good or not (just lack of info rather than anything specific). But I am sure the success of any saddle is down to this... I can't decide whether I am excited about the next stage or just worried about it going wrong


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## Bluejazz (17 January 2012)

hi 
Sounds like you've made your decision. However, if not I can highly recommend Barrie Swain Semiflex saddle.

I bought one for my mare late last summer. She moved well but was so uncomfortable is other saddles she was refusing to even trot forward on a lose rein. AS soon as I started riding in the semiflex she her attitude changed, she became happy with ears forward and her stride got bigger and looser and working brilliantly.
THe best bit is that the semiflex tree can be altered as your horse develops topline. Mine has just been reflocked and had to be widen significantly as she's developed so much muscle. 

I've bought many many saddles over the years which start of great then after 3 months just don't fit and the horse refuses to work. I've had the semiflex 5 months now and the mare still loves it and keeps going better each training session. They're not cheap new but there are second hand ones around. They are extremely comfortable to ride in and give you a lot of security.


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## rowy (21 January 2012)

You can get adjustible made to measure which means you can have it changed as the horse changes shape. 
My 4 year old is so so wide and barrel shaped, no dressage saddle would fit him so in the end we went for an Harry Dabbs which is adjustible. It cost £1200. 
Also, Saddle company saddles are adjustible and more affordable (think they start from £700). 
We had a black country made to measure which isnt adjustible and didnt really like it. Also had a lovett and Ricketts GP made to measure which is slightluy adjustible (had it made at smaller than a narrow and have had it widened to medium- narrow).

The key thing with made to measure is having the tree placed on your saddle before the saddle itself is made. Otherwise, even if the saddle looks like it fits, there may be parts of the tree digging into the horse which you wouldnt know.


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## SpottedCat (21 January 2012)

Try Nat Underwood - he is expensive and v fussy, but very good at fitting both horse and rider for a saddle. As he said to me, fitting a saddle to a horse is not rocket science, the hard part is making it fit the rider too. 

I have an Ideal from him, and they will alter blocks etc at no extra charge. He now employs 3 people to make his saddles, they hold their value (another local saddler refused to px one of his as she said it was worth too much even second hand), and he knows his stuff. I was having issues with my dressage saddle, he came out, swapped the blocks an spent a couple of hours working with me to get the saddle right for me and the horse. I'd been thinking it would have to go before he came to look at it again!

I don't think you need made to measure, I think you need someone who will spend the time on the tweaks which make a saddle fit you as well as your horse.


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## sbloom (21 January 2012)

rowy said:



			The key thing with made to measure is having the tree placed on your saddle before the saddle itself is made. Otherwise, even if the saddle looks like it fits, there may be parts of the tree digging into the horse which you wouldnt know.
		
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I think with M2M or not, a fitter who works with a range of trees with which they are very familiar will not need to do this.  I have done some bare tree fitting for my new range as they were trees that were new to me, but I know how the rails sit in all our trees, the crucial bit that you can't see.

And although fitting a saddle to a horse is indeed not rocket science, by the number of disasters we always hear about, and the tales of woe I hear from so many clients, it is an art, and a tricky one.   I am always amazed at how I seldom come across riders who can't get comfortable in standard off the peg saddles, when the right one is chosen.


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## I_A_P (21 January 2012)

I have an Ideal suzannah. Was made to measure for my horse to template although it is a pretty standard MW fit.  It was made to fit me though as I have a 17.5 seat but as I have long legs the thigh blocks were cut right back.  I have had it for over 2 years now and has been adjusted and re-flocked a couple of times no problem.  I think mine was about £1300 but it had the nicest softest leather on it. X


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## millimoo (22 January 2012)

We've had Albions, Sue Carson etc...
The best saddle my mum has is a Paul Fielder International. 
It is made to measure for you as well as the horse (for knee block placement etc)
My mum was able to try Matt Frosts at camp before she bought hers.
2 others also bought one at the same time and Paul came out himself to measure, and back again to fit.
All 3 of them are thrilled, and have all had them for 18 months with no issues.
Not the cheapest, but would highly recommend - he has a web site if you google his name


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## Kallibear (8 February 2012)

I was about to post to ask but I'll hi-jack this 

Can anyone reccomend a good saddler that customises their saddles and aren't particularly expensive (under £700 if possible)?

I need a very specific type and it's hard to find without alterations (and nigh on impossible second hand). I know Ideal do the perfect saddle but it's rather out my price range  I'm more interested in less well-known saddlers that are just a good but without the badge (and therefore the price tag).

For those interested I need: a brown WH saddle with decent knee rolls. 17" saddle with generous, fairly shallow seat, short panels and extra long flaps. Built on a very wide, flat hoop tree, with shallow rear gussets but a small, even square gusset at the front (otherwise the saddle collapses onto his shoulder). Y-balance rigging and, if possible, long stirrup bars. I'm tall, slim and long legged, Pony is very short backed, very flat and very wide (but not round).


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## sbloom (9 February 2012)

My instinct is that you have few options - Heritage might be able to help and are roughly that kind of price, but otherwise you are looking at the £1000 ish bench made saddle companies.  My instinct is that one of our in stock models would work for you needing perhaps only a longer flap.  The more changes you have to make to a design the more at risk you are of error of some kind.


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## tabithakat64 (9 February 2012)

Kallibear what about either a Heritage (Matty Marlow) saddle or Kent & Masters, I believe you could get what you want for close to your  price rnge.

Fudge has a made to measure Ideal Internationl Event and I love it, these days however I could probably have got him an Ideal H&C off the peg.

Merlin and I could have done with a made to measure Albion K2 VSD as he needs a 17.5 with thoroughbred panels and ideally I need an 18 inch seat and modified knee rolls. But I didn't have the money so we re making to with a K2 GP which fits him perfectly but me not so well.

A lot depends on the saddle fitter TBH as others have said


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## ihatework (9 February 2012)

Kallibear, I'd ditto the Heritage suggestion.
I'm just about to receive my brand new M-2-M dressage saddle from them, completely bespoke with upgraded leather for £1100 all in. You should be able to get a GP/WH for around the £700 ish mark).

Can't tell you how good my saddle is yet, but the service to date is good. Although I always think the aftersales service is the most telling!


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## fliss26 (9 February 2012)

try WOW I have just posted about how much I love my new WOW saddle!

It has made such a difference and I started my search as I have a short coupled horse and a plump behind so finding a seat for my botty that wasn't too long on his back was rather difficult but WOW managed it. 

good luck with your search


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## Marydoll (11 February 2012)

I had an event saddle mtm from Andy Sankey and it has made a huge difference, my horse is  working so much better in it. 
I loved it so much ive had him out to measure up for a dressage saddle which will be ready in a few weeks.


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## Sunshine (11 February 2012)

Kallibear said:



			I was about to post to ask but I'll hi-jack this 

Can anyone reccomend a good saddler that customises their saddles and aren't particularly expensive (under £700 if possible)?

I need a very specific type and it's hard to find without alterations (and nigh on impossible second hand). I know Ideal do the perfect saddle but it's rather out my price range  I'm more interested in less well-known saddlers that are just a good but without the badge (and therefore the price tag).

For those interested I need: a brown WH saddle with decent knee rolls. 17" saddle with generous, fairly shallow seat, short panels and extra long flaps. Built on a very wide, flat hoop tree, with shallow rear gussets but a small, even square gusset at the front (otherwise the saddle collapses onto his shoulder). Y-balance rigging and, if possible, long stirrup bars. I'm tall, slim and long legged, Pony is very short backed, very flat and very wide (but not round).
		
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I had to have an Ideal WH/Marjorie M2M for daughter's little pony. Very short backed,round barrel, no wither, forward girth groove and slender front with big moving shoulders, everything just shot forward or dug into her shoulder blade and bounced at the back. It was made on an xxw WH tree, squared cantle,foam and flocked panels and quite close contact. Well worth the £725 it cost in sala leather.

However, going back to the original thread - I also have an old Albion SL 17.5 M tree and it was supplied to fit my old anglo, by the old National Saddle centre back in the day. He was at the time, short flat back, not too broad in front but a lovely hack stamp. He retired a few years ago and so I have lent this out to friends rather than it be stuck in the garage. It has been on a 16.2 dutch warmblood and a 17hh polish warmblood mare who looks much sturdier than him, and their saddlers have said it fitted brilliantly. So I think it must be a very well made tree that balances well; gussets and flocking can always be adjusted to fine tune as long as the tree and head plate are right.


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## HolsteinersUK (12 October 2013)

What was the process to get the payment plan? ... If you don't mind me asking!


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## Luci07 (12 October 2013)

I have had a couple of m2m by Ellie Martin at bespoke saddles. Didn't cost me anymore than a normal saddle and I really don't get the argument that they are harder to sell on. Mine wasn't!  In once case I had Ellie out to fit for SJ saddle and she told me to buy an albion k2 jump as that would fit my horse perfectly.

The joys of m2m is that while it is always a given that the saddle must fit the horse, it is sheer bliss to play around with knee blocks, saddle flap lengths etc etc. I am long legged but short in the thigh and long in the calve. Made a huge difference to me


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## Kallibear (12 October 2013)

An old thread but I eventually found one that someone else had had made to measure for their short backed wide flat cob. And I bought it second hand at half the RRP so perfect!


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