# Ellen Whitaker



## OneInAMillion (28 June 2009)

Feel a bit sorry for her as it was going so well but I don't think she should have used her spurs as harshly afterwards as she did does ruin the feel for an amazing sport


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## miss_c (28 June 2009)

I agree with you 100%, I can understand her being frustrated but that did seem rather harsh.


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## Dottie (28 June 2009)

She has just demonstrated why i dislike her


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## OneInAMillion (28 June 2009)

Huum spurs are there for aids not punishment


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## Perfect_Pirouette (28 June 2009)

Ohhh what'd she do? Tell please i missed it!


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## FairyCakes (28 June 2009)

More like poor horse! She really stuck those spurs in


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## OneInAMillion (28 June 2009)

The horse wouldn't go off the Hickstead bank and she came off the bank after she was eliminated and gave it a massive jab into the horses sides with her spurs


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## LindaW (28 June 2009)

Heard about her and her temper with the horses, I believe it now having seen it.  Witch.


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## Puppy (28 June 2009)

Why on earth poor her? 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 Poor horse I say!


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## Perfect_Pirouette (28 June 2009)

OMG, i'm sad cos up until having heard that I quite liked her. What a stupid thing for her to do- in front of everyone. Does she not realise that people will not support that kind of treatment? Silly cow!


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## puc (28 June 2009)

Poor Ellen????? did you not see her kicking it all the way off the edge and round the side with her spurs??   She's in a possition where a lot of children/young riders look up to her she should set a better example. If you want to push the horse at the time fine, but don't just kick it out of spite, there is nothing else like the bank and if its not worked out once you've made the decision to retire/been eliminated just have some grace.

Mind you its nothing compared to the beating she gave another good horse after it didn't jump clear, she took it back into the arena in the evening for a real thrashing, didn't realise the cameras were on and everyone in the bar saw her on the screen, the owners saw and took it away from her.


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## OneInAMillion (28 June 2009)

yes sorry see everyones point I dont really mean i feel sorry as in i like her i just think that horse was jumping so well it would have been good to have seen it go round


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## annret (28 June 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
Poor Ellen????? did you not see her kicking it all the way off the edge and round the side with her spurs??   She's in a possition where a lot of children/young riders look up to her she should set a better example. If you want to push the horse at the time fine, but don't just kick it out of spite, there is nothing else like the bank and if its not worked out once you've made the decision to retire/been eliminated just have some grace.

Mind you its nothing compared to the beating she gave another good horse after it didn't jump clear, she took it back into the arena in the evening for a real thrashing, didn't realise the cameras were on and everyone in the bar saw her on the screen, the owners saw and took it away from her. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Agree with you completely. Wish she would sit quietly and give confidence to her horses, rather than bully them.


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## JoJo_ (28 June 2009)

Not only did I disapprove of the way she booted the horse with the spurs after she was eliminated but she looked to be very heavy handed afterwards! Poor horse was getting very wound up and the frustration/anger on Ellen's face said she was being spiteful.

Editted to add: William is a way better rider in my opinion. Very nice and quiet and when things dont go his way he gives his horse a pat and quietly leaves.


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## Amymay (28 June 2009)

A very unpleasant youn woman.  And most unprofessional.


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## Puppy (28 June 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
Mind you its nothing compared to the beating she gave another good horse after it didn't jump clear, she took it back into the arena in the evening for a real thrashing, didn't realise the cameras were on and everyone in the bar saw her on the screen, the owners saw and took it away from her. 

[/ QUOTE ]




















Not such the golden girl of showjumping hey?!


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## Dottie (28 June 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Mind you its nothing compared to the beating she gave another good horse after it didn't jump clear, she took it back into the arena in the evening for a real thrashing, didn't realise the cameras were on and everyone in the bar saw her on the screen, the owners saw and took it away from her. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Doesn't surprise me at all 
	
	
		
		
	


	





I dread to think what goes on behind closed doors


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## LindaW (28 June 2009)

If she really did do that, then she's not just a bad tempered unprofessional young woman (not prepared to call her a horsewoman), she's evil.  Planning to go back and thrash a horse long past the heat of the moment is even more disgusting.

Whatever, I'm not happy about what I did see.


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## jenbleep (28 June 2009)

[ QUOTE ]


Mind you its nothing compared to the beating she gave another good horse after it didn't jump clear, she took it back into the arena in the evening for a real thrashing, didn't realise the cameras were on and everyone in the bar saw her on the screen, the owners saw and took it away from her. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Really?!


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## jenbleep (28 June 2009)

[ QUOTE ]


Agree with you completely. Wish she would sit quietly and give confidence to her horses, rather than bully them. 

[/ QUOTE ]

I got off C once to jump over a ditch with her (one of her first!) and a 'friend' called me a wimp!  
	
	
		
		
	


	




 I said that ^^


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## Ezme (28 June 2009)

Goes to show, little spurs and a "normal" bit, if I remember right, cause a lot more damage than say William Funnells fantastic quiet ride in a waterford cheltham gag!


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## kerilli (28 June 2009)

i thought she was doing a pretty good job until it stopped, although i thought the mare looked horribly unhappy in its mouth. when it refused to go off the bank i was thinking "Uh oh, now we'll see if she's a real horsewoman" and i'm afraid my fears were realised. nasty. i bet she beasted it back in the stables. 
	
	
		
		
	


	












she's not a patch on William W, i don't know how she keeps getting such phenomenal horses to ride. that mare, like Locarno, looks as if it could jump a house.


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## Elle1085 (28 June 2009)

I'm not saying she was right in any way or anything but have you seen the way her dad reacts if she has a bad round? its hardly surprising she's like that. It goes on alot it's just more noticeable when its her cos she's so high profile. Again i'm not saying it's right but she's young and hopefully she'll learn to control her temper a bit better in the future


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## 3BayGeldings (28 June 2009)

Kerelli, Ellen has said before that Ladina is very reluctant to go forward so maybe that came across as being unhappy in her mouth? 

I suppose only the people involved will know.


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## Halfpass (28 June 2009)

I was so shocked  
	
	
		
		
	


	




 when I saw her reaction, I was shouting at the TV 

"don't you dare do that"

I am so cross  
	
	
		
		
	


	




 that someone in her position finds it acceptable to act like this knowing that there are 1000's of people who watch her and want to learn from her examples. Very very inappropriate IMHO


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## Quadro (28 June 2009)

i think things have gone to her head and if she dosent win there are some "tantrums"


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## Onyxia (28 June 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
Again i'm not saying it's right but she's young and hopefully she'll learn to control her temper a bit better in the future 

[/ QUOTE ]
I hope so too,but doubt it 
	
	
		
		
	


	




Also hope she is punished for it-there is no way anyone could think her treatment of the mare fair or just,a slapped arse might just teach her a lesson....


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## sleepingdragon10 (28 June 2009)

I'm glad i'm not the only one who was stunned by her petulant behaviour. Did you see the look on her face? It reminded me of how my 5 yr old looks when he's about to chuck a strop.........


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## Grey_Eventer (28 June 2009)

thats just stupid! 
i think its ok to go back to the warm up arena to pop a few fences after a bad round to gain confidence again, but totally unnecessary to go back way after the class and thrash it around! 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 its sad thuogh that she would treat horses like that... spoilt IMO!


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## Halfpass (28 June 2009)

[ QUOTE ]

Mind you its nothing compared to the beating she gave another good horse after it didn't jump clear, she took it back into the arena in the evening for a real thrashing, didn't realise the cameras were on and everyone in the bar saw her on the screen, the owners saw and took it away from her. 

[/ QUOTE ]



Disgusting


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## dozzie (28 June 2009)

I havent seen her react like this before as I dont follow SJ much,  but have heard about it. Stroppy teenager comes to mind. It certainly looked like a reaction out of temper.


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## j1ffy (28 June 2009)

Interesting to contrast with Guy Williams (I think it was?) who came off at the dyke but gave his horse a pat and some grass afterwards. I'm sure he'll be a lot happier next time round a Derby course than Ellen's horse.


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## Gorgeous George (28 June 2009)

Can't say I was impressed with her and her behaviour. I too was impressed with Guy after he fell off still patting his horse and making a fuss of it. It's all very disappointing but these are animals we are dealing with not machines.


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## Angelbones (28 June 2009)

Nasty wench...I seem to remember a thread about her last year after the Derby too, saying pretty much the same thing. She has a temper on her that's for sure, I was hoping that spirited grey mare would dump her off the side of the bank in front of everyone.


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## brighteyes (28 June 2009)

Yes, she has been seen on several occasions reminding a horse (long after the misdemeanours in the ring) exactly who is boss.  And young eyes have witnessed the reprimands.  Not really the sort of person you want to look up to.

Now William W, on the other hand... and Guy Williams, had two stops and a fall resulting in elimination, patting his horse and later with his groom also smiling and patting it.

Puzzles me why she gets away with it.


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## WoopsiiD (28 June 2009)

A few years back another 'talented' horse woman was seen doing the same thing backstage and was reprimanded for it by her peers. Have we now got a generation of young riders who's main aim is clearly to win at all costs??
Sad if it is.


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## Mrs_Wishkabibble (28 June 2009)

I have seen her on too many occasions taking her temper out on the horses when things do not go to plan.

I understand it is frustrating and that she does it for a living and has owners to please but she is supposed to be an ambassador for the sport so think she should be showing a better example.

I wonder what she is like off camera at home with them??


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## Torphichen (28 June 2009)

I saw her once, take an extremely tight turn to a very big vertical, stride was never present and horse had no chance so refused. She promptly turned it around and belted it quite a few times for refusing. Personally, I would have been belting myself round the head for letting my horse down.
I just wish she could take a leaf out of WW's book. You couldn't help but smile after he reassured his 1st horse after coming of the bank an clattering the white rails and they then got it together to jump that treble combo cleanly. Guy Williams took a tumble as well and his horse came to him. I can't see the need in getting wound up and see-sawing off a horses mouth because it refused. As they say horses for courses and there's always another day ...


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## Jbrogan (28 June 2009)

I have such little faith in that woman that when the mare refused I actually said "O no this isn't going to be pretty" to my other half. I just knew she was going to do something to that horse. Vile thing that she is.


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## tiggerette (28 June 2009)

Isn't  this a problem with a lot of 'professional' riders who see their horses as a means to an end rather than flesh and blood?


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## martlin (28 June 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
Isn't  this a problem with a lot of 'professional' riders who see their horses as a means to an end rather than flesh and blood? 
	
	
		
		
	


	





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Ehhm, not really, if you compare others' behaviour at the Derby, unfortunately Ellen stands out rather badly


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## 98274957 (28 June 2009)

Ellen is badly behaved far to often and is known for it. The fact that she is so competitive shouldnt be used as an excuse, Guy Williams is prob the most competitive in Britain, but even he admitted that Torinto was in the wrong class and wont jump another Derby. Ladina is a class act at a big wall but clearly may not be a Derby horse. Ellen should be old enough to understand that. Also I dont think she is as great as people make out (i am prepared to get shot down for this!). She swings around in the saddle kicking and pulling, has a lot of horses bought for her that are produced by other people who think alot of them eg Sefana- Mark Armstrong, Ocalado- James Fisher-  and also a lot of horses she has bought for her just disapear if she cant ride them- Quinton??  Her brother Joe looks a lot better horseman and will surely produce more novices than her and in a nicer way, Will is streets ahead of her and young girl riders such as Jessie Drea and Megan James are catching her up!! Although what cant be taken away is the fact that she is a true competiter, very positive and awesome against the clock


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## Onyxia (28 June 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
Isn't  this a problem with a lot of 'professional' riders who see their horses as a means to an end rather than flesh and blood? 
	
	
		
		
	


	





[/ QUOTE ]
Just look at the derby today,everyone that had rotten luck shrugged it off except EW which is why she is the only one being spoken badly about.

Cant comment on how the others are at home,but I really do dread to think what Ellen considers OK if she thinks displays like today are fine when she is out in full public view


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## carmenlucy123 (28 June 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
A very unpleasant youn woman.  And most unprofessional. 

[/ QUOTE ]

you always hit it right on the button Amymay-agreed little witch she is!

Does anyone remember last year when her horse kept falling it fell up the bank and was really jittery and she beat that round and made it finish-poor think I was shouting at the telly for her to pull up that was on a bay?


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## henryhorn (28 June 2009)

I wasn't watching but from the post she is going through a stage many young riders do, of not getting their horses to want to do it for them, more of making them.
I have seen it countless times over the years, promising young riders (more often males) want to win at all costs and think sheer brute force will do it for them. 
I'm surprised she hasn't realised by watching her Uncles, once you get a partnership, the horse will try it's utmost for you regardless of fear etc., but she sadly hasn't found the family gift as yet.
I once had M Whittaker come to try a horse we had for sale, it was like watching magic, his communication with the horse was such that it tried it's damndest to please him, and that's what Ellen has to learn how to do.
(and I'm someone who loathes Parelli, I mean ridden communication!)
I doubt you will see her behave like that in public again, the backlash will shame her too much..


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## Cuffey (28 June 2009)

Very disappointed in seeing her jab the horse with the spurs after retiring
The top of the Derby bank is a dangerous place to pick a fight
Cant believe they risk horses so valuable without practicing over something at home first.
Very poor sportsmanship shown and bad example to all the youngsters watching.


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## Ezme (28 June 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
Very disappointed in seeing her jab the horse with the spurs after retiring
The top of the Derby bank is a dangerous place to pick a fight
Cant believe they risk horses so valuable without practicing over something at home first.
Very poor sportsmanship shown and bad example to all the youngsters watching. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly, they showed that clip of the horse launching itself off the top. Plus, micheal whitiker had a replica bank made so he could practice....


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## Sharonr (28 June 2009)

I'm glad you started this post cos was going to do it myself. Do NOT like Ellen Whitaker cos the way she acts when it doesn't go her way!!

She is such a poor loser and is a disgrace treating her horses like that.  She really dug those spurs in taking out her frustration on the horse.

It's not the first time I've seen her doing that. As said before, last year the horse just about fell down the bank cos she laid into it. 

Poor show and such a bad example to the sport!! Her sponsor should think twice about whether they want her as a role model endorsing their products!!!


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## xnaughtybutnicex (28 June 2009)

It's a shame because she could be a very talented young rider but good luck trying to get that horse to trust her again. Seems to be a bit of a spoilt little maddam, needs to learn to control her temper. She knows that she is in the limelight and there are alot of young riders watching, she should be setting a good example and should think about it before she reacts like that. She should be banned from competing at the next hickstead.


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## marble (28 June 2009)

Has anyone elso noticed nobody is taking Ellen W side, maybe she will be directed to the forum, and maybe, she will realise that the time has come, to follow JW and MW example, softly softly always wins.....I like many others felt my heart sink, when her horse said no thankyou, you knew what was probably going to follow, sad isn't it, when she has everything going for her.


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## 98274957 (28 June 2009)

Have to give it to her though she is braver than me- picking a fight with a big quirky mare on top of the Bank, id be to scared if it decided it didnt want to go, and id put my hand up and come out!


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## spotty_pony (28 June 2009)

Ooh I missed it! Is there anywhere I can watch it online?


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## PoppyAnderson (28 June 2009)

Have just looked on youtube and iplayer but not on yet.


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## zeuscleoharmony (28 June 2009)

Is there any way to complain officially so perhaps she can get a warning or something?  If we are all disgusted with her but cannot voice our feelings then that just isn't right.  I don't like her.


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## xnaughtybutnicex (28 June 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
Have to give it to her though she is braver than me- picking a fight with a big quirky mare on top of the Bank, id be to scared if it decided it didnt want to go, and id put my hand up and come out! 

[/ QUOTE ]

Much braver than me - I wouldn't go up the bank to start with.


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## 98274957 (28 June 2009)

Or make it a top thread and the HH will put it in on thursday. I dont really like her but what i dont like more is that most people think she i perfect!!


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## xnaughtybutnicex (28 June 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
Or make it a top thread and the HH will put it in on thursday. I dont really like her but what i dont like more is that most people think she i perfect!! 

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, must admit I did like her up until now. Thought she was quite talented but having seen her react like this it certainly made me think twice. I was very shocked  
	
	
		
		
	


	








 I've never seen her behave like that before.


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## OneInAMillion (28 June 2009)

I always looked up to her as I think it's great to see a woman doing well in what is a very male dominated sport (SJ) and as a younger rider I would like to emmulate how she rides etc. but never would I treat my boy like that because I know that for a start it's wrong and unfair but they always remember whats happened.
Now I think Guy Williams is the person to look up to he came off but picked his horse a handful of grass and was patting it and talking to it the whole way out


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## 98274957 (28 June 2009)

Nice to hear some honesty.


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## Gingerwitch (28 June 2009)

Isn't it a shame that the brand Whitaker could be damaged by such actions.  I have always had upmost respect for the Whitakers, but they are obviously being tainted by association of the brat.  She is where she is because of trading on the name, and yes she may be a plucky so and so - but as all the threads suggest - if she does this in public - what on earth do those poor horses go through at home.  Why dont we start to contact her "sponsers" and suggest that she is not the ideal role model for the younger generation.  If i had done that to one of my ponies as a child I would have been the one having a beating and it would have been sold the next day.


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## TS_ (28 June 2009)

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Has anyone elso noticed nobody is taking Ellen W side, 

[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps because they know they'll be shot down! I personally do like Ellen Whitaker and I think she is very talented watching any of the Whitakers do a puissance is magic. I completely agree that jabbing it in the sides was completely unnecessary and she shouldn't have done it. However there have been many times when she has rode very well. Unfortunatly lately the bad times have over shadowed these. I think she's going through a 'slump' at the moment and I think, given time, she'll come out back on top. She just needs to iron out all of the kinks in her performance and horsemanship.


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## Gingerwitch (28 June 2009)

Marble - you cant say sorry to a horse


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## Zeus (28 June 2009)

Well she comes across as the darling of the Showjumping World WHEN she is winning. Its all pats and smiles then but have a fence down and the expression on her face shows what a vicious little rider she actually is.


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## Dottie (28 June 2009)

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Well she comes across as the darling of the Showjumping World WHEN she is winning. Its all pats and smiles then but have a fence down and the expression on her face shows what a vicious little rider she actually is. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Totally agree


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## teddyt (28 June 2009)

Violence/force/brutality/beating/ whatever you want to call it is a sign that you have insufficient skills to get what you want by kinder methods. If the horse was trained for the job in hand and happy there would have been no need for it. Not that there is ever any need to treat an animal that way.

It disgusts me when riders abuse their horses like that. It should be a partnership, not one forcing the other through causing pain and fear. I sincerely hope EW gets reprimanded by officials and her peers and takes note. If she cant get round the course without inflicting the poor horse to that then she should give up showjumping.


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## Ranyhyn (28 June 2009)

I didn't see the incident, but I am not suprised with her.  She often comes over as a spoilt little madam when things get tough, thats not the sign of a good horsewoman, thats the sign of a spoilt horsewoman.

I wouldn't let her ride one of my horses, if I had one of that calibre and if she treated it like that, she'd be getting a spur in the guts too.


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## Sags_Deer (28 June 2009)

Its disgusting how she behaved. Shame the horse didnt ditch her, like the one I saw yesterday in a class round the back horse stopped, girl beat it, horse reared up and rider promptly fell off!! im afraid i did giggle at that one.


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## kibob (28 June 2009)

Shocking behaviour,, she showed herself to be a completely spoilt brat and a bully to boot,,, true colours it appears 
	
	
		
		
	


	





If that was my horse she was riding I would be looking for another rider, no second chances.

I only hope she feels ashamed of her behaviour today


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## lannerch (28 June 2009)

The difference between guy williams reaction and ellens reaction when things went wrong said it all to me.
  One is a class rider who is doing well due to pure hardwork, the other is relying on her family name, rather than jockey skills to secure her the success!


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## Weezy (28 June 2009)

I just went and forwarded through the Sky+ to have a look.  I must admit that I was expecting to see a lot worse after reading the comments on here.  She was obv v peed off, and no, picking a fight at the top of the bank is NOT a good idea


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## jenbleep (28 June 2009)

Can you imagine if she jabbed her in the ribs and  _then_ L flew of the bank


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## flyingfeet (28 June 2009)

oh dear lord - look at how bloomin bitchy this forum is?

You cannot wait to pick holes and we seem to enjoy picking women riders apart in here. Guess its always the same when you get a bunch of horsey women together.

Yes she did jab it in the ribs, I've done it after my horse got eliminated jumping. It's not big its not clever, but it happens. 

Seen heck of a lot worse at local shows. 

Maybe you wouldn't all be so mean if she wasn't thin, blonde, pretty and in a famous family... spit spit spit


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## Elle1085 (28 June 2009)

I'm amazed people are so shocked is it just cos it's her or have you not seen people doing that before? not saying its a nice thing to do but i was more interested in the german horse (think it was german not 100%  though) that had a rug thrown on it as soon as it came out of the ring. Having worked for a sjer the only time i had to do that was to hide spur or whip marks. I really don't think the other riders would have batted an eyelid at what she did and if everyone here can say they've never made a mistake with their horse or lost their temper with it then they are either lying or have the patience of a saint. I have seen much worse than that going on behind the scenes, not that that makes it right but some of the things people are saying about her are imo unfair


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## Elle1085 (28 June 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
oh dear lord - look at how bloomin bitchy this forum is?

You cannot wait to pick holes and we seem to enjoy picking women riders apart in here. Guess its always the same when you get a bunch of horsey women together.

Yes she did jab it in the ribs, I've done it after my horse got eliminated jumping. It's not big its not clever, but it happens. 

Seen heck of a lot worse at local shows. 

Maybe you wouldn't all be so mean if she wasn't thin, blonde, pretty and in a famous family... spit spit spit 

[/ QUOTE ]






 Love it


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## TS_ (28 June 2009)

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I'm amazed people are so shocked is it just cos it's her or have you not seen people doing that before? 

[/ QUOTE ]

I think if it had been another rider people would have shrugged it off but I have noticed most people on the forum dislike EW. So yes I think it's just because it's her..


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## jenbleep (28 June 2009)

I've marked C before with my spurs - I was horrified! People were just shocked that someone who is supposed to be a professional couldn't contain her frustration, or channeled it in a better way....or maybe they just don't like her?


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## LindaW (28 June 2009)

Dunno, pretty sure I didn't have an opinion of her before this I don't spend a lot of time watching or being involved in showjumping, so while I've heard her name, I didn't have any issues with her and thought the grumbles I'd read previously were whats described in the above posts, just sour grapes.

Having watched it, now I think she's spiteful, and no I don't like her.


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## WoopsiiD (28 June 2009)

Whether people like her or not, when you are at the top of your game you become a role model to others and an ambassador for the sport.
IMHO she did not act like either today. 
Hopefully the next generation who were watching her don't think that is the correct way to act.


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## xnaughtybutnicex (28 June 2009)

It is just because it's her (for me anyway) - not in the sense that I already didn't like her but more because she is a professional and should try harder not to lose her temper. She is a rider that alot of young girls look up to, so should be setting a better example than losing her temper so quick. I think it is clear that some people already didn't like her on here but I had never seen EW behave like that before.


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## Amymay (28 June 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm amazed people are so shocked is it just cos it's her or have you not seen people doing that before? 

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I think if it had been another rider people would have shrugged it off but I have noticed most people on the forum dislike EW. So yes I think it's just because it's her.. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Ellen is a professional horsewoman, brought up living and breathing the animals and the nature of what is now her profession.

If she really thinks that that is an acceptable way to behave in a modern, competative world - then clearly she should not be held up to be the role model she aspires to be.

If anyone behaved as she did I would be equally as disgusted.  Me not particularly liking her has nothing to do with my comment - nor I believe anyone elses on here.


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## Torphichen (28 June 2009)

Maybe you wouldn't all be so mean if she wasn't thin, blonde, pretty and in a famous family... spit spit spit 

^ 
Uhuh ..No.
I wouldn't give one if she was the most desired woman in the world. Appearance and looks do not feature in my calculations. I don't care if she comes from a famous family. I care about the fact that thousands of young children look up towards these famous riders, live their careers, aspire to be them, want to be as successful as them and try to refine their technique on these riders.
You can't behave like that, since when has it been acceptable to wind your horse up after a refusal and jab it with spurs. Pfft, label me jealous if you will, but I know who I want to emulate and it certainly is not her. I just hope one day she realises the error of her ways and to reassure her horse, there is no need for what she showed today. She's a role model to younger people -and so she should start behaving like one.


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## 98274957 (28 June 2009)

sorry elle but anyone that has anything to do with showjumping at any reasonable level knows exactly what goes on behind the scenes. i am no animal rights activist and the mare proberly wpold have forgotten what had happened by the time it got back to the stables. However what she did looks bad in the eyes of the public, it makes normal people think that showjumping is full of stuck up brats that spit there dummies out when the game doesnt go there way. more importantly ellen has been doing this job a long time and maybe just accept that the mare is not a derby horse, thats all it looked like to me. I also, as i have said before think she is over rated as a jockey.


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## Eventer96 (28 June 2009)

I think that Ellen is a good talented rider, but I just thought it was a little unfair how she treated her mare today. The mare only needed a pat at the end of that round just to get a little reasurance, that's all I'm going to say


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## Starman (28 June 2009)

Well i for one am amazed that so many people on this forum have either

a) Spent time with Ellen Whitaker (enough to be able to comment on her personality)

b) Have ridden Ladina B (again, enough to know her personality and how she is to ride)

or
c) Watched Ellen at every competition she's even done (in order to justify summing up and then ripping apart her riding style)

Really quite astounding that you've ALL done at least one of the above. I mean, i'm guessing that if you haven't then in no way you would have felt able to comment on Ellen in the way the majority of you have...


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## lannerch (28 June 2009)

I would be scared if asked to go down that derby bank! 
All that horse needed was a pat not a dig in the ribs it said no because it was scared, and when ellen dug it in the ribs with her spurs on the way down the easier way it would have just confirmed the horses view that was scary! Ellen should have known that and should realise that sort of behaviour especially in front of the tv cameras is totally unacceptable.

Inciedently I like Ellen Whitaker ( well always did before this incident, hopefully she will change her ways and I will like her again )


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## Dottie (28 June 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
oh dear lord - look at how bloomin bitchy this forum is?

You cannot wait to pick holes and we seem to enjoy picking women riders apart in here. Guess its always the same when you get a bunch of horsey women together.

Yes she did jab it in the ribs, I've done it after my horse got eliminated jumping. It's not big its not clever, but it happens. 

Seen heck of a lot worse at local shows. 

Maybe you wouldn't all be so mean if she wasn't thin, blonde, pretty and in a famous family... spit spit spit 

[/ QUOTE ]


Err Amy Tyrone?  
	
	
		
		
	


	





I imagine the reason everyone is annoyed is because she is a role model for young riders and behaving like a stroppy baby because things didn't go her way is setting a bad example.

I also find it funny that if the person is question is pretty/skinny/blonde/rich ect everyone is accused of being jealous *rolls eyes*


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## Starman (28 June 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
I would be scared if asked to go down that derby bank! 
All that horse needed was a pat not a dig in the ribs it said no because it was scared, and when ellen dug it in the ribs with her spurs on the way down the easier way it would have just confirmed the horses view that was scary! Ellen should have known that and should realise that sort of behaviour especially in front of the tv cameras is totally unacceptable.

Inciedently I like Ellen Whitaker ( well always did before this incident, hopefully she will change her ways and I will like her again ) 

[/ QUOTE ]

Can i suggest that this wasn't the first time Ladina B had seen a derby bank. Ellen has access to a couple of banks for practice and i daresay she made good use of them in the run up to this competition. Ladina B is primarily a puissance horse, and jumps 7 ft + for fun. Puissance competitions, however, are few and far between, leaving plenty of time for practicing for this Derby.


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## JessPickle (28 June 2009)

I don't agree with Ellen's actions, however it seems unfair to make her sound like she is the only one who does this kind of thing!! there was an irish rider last year at hickstead who was boo'ed by hickstead crowds for over use of her whip, but that didn't get nearly the attention this has.  

Also this happens in much worse forms in the lower level stuff, even the outer rings on hickstead had plenty of that to show.  I was someone beat there horse so hard she scared it so much it took off with her round the ring! this was at this week's hickstead! the shouting that came from the woman was extrodinary!


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## Ezme (28 June 2009)

The only time I've ever seen riders style questioned on here is when the horses welfare is an issue.
Amy Tyrone- Galloping at a maximum height table causing a rotational fall
Laura Renwick- Approaching a fence at speed on an unjumpable angle and smacking the horse 3 times with force enough for whip to fly out of hand
Ellen Whitaker- Punishing horse excessivly AFTER being eliminated. 

Whips and spurs have uses but when they are used quickly so horse assosiates action with aid not as some random action after the event.


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## Amymay (28 June 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would be scared if asked to go down that derby bank! 
All that horse needed was a pat not a dig in the ribs it said no because it was scared, and when ellen dug it in the ribs with her spurs on the way down the easier way it would have just confirmed the horses view that was scary! Ellen should have known that and should realise that sort of behaviour especially in front of the tv cameras is totally unacceptable.

Inciedently I like Ellen Whitaker ( well always did before this incident, hopefully she will change her ways and I will like her again ) 

[/ QUOTE ]

Can i suggest that this wasn't the first time Ladina B had seen a derby bank. Ellen has access to a couple of banks for practice and i daresay she made good use of them in the run up to this competition. Ladina B is primarily a puissance horse, and jumps 7 ft + for fun. Puissance competitions, however, are few and far between, leaving plenty of time for practicing for this Derby. 

[/ QUOTE ]

It doesn't matter if the horse has been down it (or a replica) a million times.  Today she said no - and her rider threw her toys out of her pram.

I get the feeling you think the behaviour was acceptable........


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## brighthair (28 June 2009)

I think she lost her temper. She's done it before and will probably do it again, and I hope she gets reminded that it's not acceptable to come across that way. It gives a bad image of the sport and especially to young competitors who might think it's an ok thing to do. I would say that about ANY rider who did that, no matter who they were or at what level
I understand some things may look harsh - I had a mare who had a tendency to put a really dirty stop or run out in. I did a fun riding club ODE on her, and at the last fence of the SJ I felt her begin to back off, she wasn't scared, just being a stubborn git! I smacked her once, at the right time, and she jumped it. I have no issue with that, but if a horse isn't going anywhere off your leg, I can't see jabbing it with spurs making a difference
It is easy to lose your temper, and I abandoned my old horse in the school many times, to get off, have a cigarette and cool off! Rather that than losing it with him


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## lannerch (28 June 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would be scared if asked to go down that derby bank! 
All that horse needed was a pat not a dig in the ribs it said no because it was scared, and when ellen dug it in the ribs with her spurs on the way down the easier way it would have just confirmed the horses view that was scary! Ellen should have known that and should realise that sort of behaviour especially in front of the tv cameras is totally unacceptable.

Inciedently I like Ellen Whitaker ( well always did before this incident, hopefully she will change her ways and I will like her again ) 

[/ QUOTE ]

Can i suggest that this wasn't the first time Ladina B had seen a derby bank. Ellen has access to a couple of banks for practice and i daresay she made good use of them in the run up to this competition. Ladina B is primarily a puissance horse, and jumps 7 ft + for fun. Puissance competitions, however, are few and far between, leaving plenty of time for practicing for this Derby. 

[/ QUOTE ]

you certainly can and can I suggest that derby banks  as severe as the one at hickstead are found now where eles this is the only one!
Either way the horse was scared, digging it in the ribs with her spurs just confirmed to the horse how right it was to be scared, so whether she practiced or not is irrelevant!


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## Kentisheventer (28 June 2009)

Can you please stop scrutinizing everything every equestrian does?! They often have reasons, and we do not know them. No one gains anything from these posts (such as the GS one) and it just gives us forumers who are here for help/advice/fun rather than a 'good old bitch'. Im sure that i have done things that i am not particularly proud of... but i don't have people on my back criticizing it. IMO, you're like the bloody press!


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## martlin (28 June 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
Can you please stop scrutinizing everything every equestrian does?! They often have reasons, and we do not know them. No one gains anything from these posts (such as the GS one) and it just gives us forumers who are here for help/advice/fun rather than a 'good old bitch'. Im sure that i have done things that i am not particularly proud of... but i don't have people on my back criticizing it. IMO, you're like the bloody press! 

[/ QUOTE ]

Come up with one good reason for EW behaviour then 
	
	
		
		
	


	





It's not bitchy post, it's critical. She was way out of order.


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## Amymay (28 June 2009)

Are you suggesting we should only discuss things that we find acceptable?  So no questioning, challenging or criticising???


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## 3BayGeldings (28 June 2009)

Can i ask something without being jumped on hopefully.. are people annoyed at her using the whip at the top of the bank? I cant totally remember what happened so im struggling to see what the fuss is about! I'm guessing i must have missed something


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## jenbleep (28 June 2009)

No...people are annoyed that she jabbed her in the side after she was eliminated....no point, out of anger and completely uncalled for.


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## Amymay (28 June 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
Can i ask something without being jumped on hopefully.. are people annoyed at her using the whip at the top of the bank? I cant totally remember what happened so im struggling to see what the fuss is about! I'm guessing i must have missed something 
	
	
		
		
	


	





[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't have a problem with her using her stick - but after hitting the horse twice, with no obvious sign that it was going to go - she should (IMO) have stopped.  She went on to hit the horse a few more times.  But they were slaps, and the horse certainly didn't receive a beating.

However, as she turned to come off the bank, she jabbed the horse in the ribs and did it again on two more ocassions.  _That_ is what I object to.


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## martlin (28 June 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
Can i ask something without being jumped on hopefully.. are people annoyed at her using the whip at the top of the bank? I cant totally remember what happened so im struggling to see what the fuss is about! I'm guessing i must have missed something 
	
	
		
		
	


	





[/ QUOTE ]
No, she had a bit of an argument with horse on top of the bank, the horse refused flatly to carry on, she got eliminated, then proceeded to boot the horse all the way out of the ring, with every spurred boot came a lovely jibe in the teeth.
Typical tantrum... her face said it all.


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## 3BayGeldings (28 June 2009)

I see. Thank you for explaining


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## Kentisheventer (28 June 2009)

My point is you gain NOTHING from talking like this. Add georgie spence on facebook and her page is littered with friends saying theyve emailed HHO complaining. Its not giving us a good name... and highlighting this does no good!


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## martlin (28 June 2009)

The difference between Georgie Spencer and Ellen is pretty damn obvious, though.... Georgie has not done anything bad, just a bit silly... Ellen has shown an absolutely disgusting behaviour in the ring, and broke the rules on abuse of horse (IMO).


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## Amymay (28 June 2009)

Don't be so ridiculous.  And what on earth has Georgie Spence got to do with anything?????


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## jenbleep (28 June 2009)

Complaining about what? Expressing an opinion?!


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## PapaFrita (28 June 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
Well i for one am amazed that so many people on this forum have either

a) Spent time with Ellen Whitaker (enough to be able to comment on her personality)

b) Have ridden Ladina B (again, enough to know her personality and how she is to ride)

or
c) Watched Ellen at every competition she's even done (in order to justify summing up and then ripping apart her riding style)

Really quite astounding that you've ALL done at least one of the above. I mean, i'm guessing that if you haven't then in no way you would have felt able to comment on Ellen in the way the majority of you have... 

[/ QUOTE ]
Oh please. We don't have to know her personally to know that jabbing a horse in the ribs AFTER elimination is petty and childish at best. 
I'm sure you've read about people in the newspaper, and some of the things they've done (good OR bad) and have _judged_ them on their actions in one way or another.


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## Kentisheventer (28 June 2009)

Amymay and martlin... people on this forum blew the GS issue out the window... and that had a HUGE reaction by her herself... just think how you are all portraying this opinion. Yes you are expressing opinions... but please can you actually answer my question- what does this gain!?


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## Amymay (28 June 2009)

I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about Kentisheventer, with regards GS. Sorry.

What does it gain?  Well probably nothing.  But as free speech (which includes discussion) is not banned on this forum nor indeed the UK - then I am free to air my opinion in any polite way I see fit.


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## martlin (28 June 2009)

Well, with a bit of luck she will have a look at the thread and feel ashamed, that would be a result.


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## Kentisheventer (28 June 2009)

Yes but it does the reputation of this forum harm, puts the existence of the forum itself in jeopardy, and hurts a number of people's feelings!


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## martlin (28 June 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
Yes but it does the reputation of this forum harm, puts the existence of the forum itself in jeopardy, and hurts a number of people's feelings! 

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sorry, but you are talking rubbish.


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## Kentisheventer (28 June 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yes but it does the reputation of this forum harm, puts the existence of the forum itself in jeopardy, and hurts a number of people's feelings! 

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sorry, but you are talking rubbish. 

[/ QUOTE ]

I think thats really quite rude  
	
	
		
		
	


	




 and think you should baxk this up... after speaking to many people after the GS incident i made my view


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## lannerch (28 June 2009)

my feelings get hurt having to witness imo abuse of a horse, obviously a very geniune horse going by its puissance recorld!

agree with you martlin ketisheventer is talking rubbish!

and we are not talking about the gs incident whatever that incident was


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## sleepingdragon10 (28 June 2009)

What does it gain? In an ideal world she'd review her childish behaviour and show a little empathy towards the horses who provide her with a living!!


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## Kentisheventer (28 June 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
What does it gain? In an ideal world she'd review her childish behaviour and show a little empathy towards the horses who provide her with a living!! 

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes she made a mistake. Get over it.


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## Kentisheventer (28 June 2009)

[ QUOTE ]


and we are not talking about the gs incident whatever that incident was 

[/ QUOTE ]

a few people did the same thing to GS which really hurt her feelings and i know stopped a few people posting on the forum... they felt ashamed to be a part of this scandal!


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## sleepingdragon10 (28 June 2009)

...whatever


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## martlin (28 June 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yes but it does the reputation of this forum harm, puts the existence of the forum itself in jeopardy, and hurts a number of people's feelings! 

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sorry, but you are talking rubbish. 

[/ QUOTE ]

I think thats really quite rude  
	
	
		
		
	


	




 and think you should baxk this up... after speaking to many people after the GS incident i made my view 

[/ QUOTE ]

Look, you are bringing up again and again an unrelated incident. GS has nothing to do with EW and the HIckstead Derby whatsoever. Frankly, I bet GS wouldn't be delighted by you bringing up something she would rather have forgotten by now, don't you think?

EW was there, for everyone to see on national terrestrial tv!
Forum is a place where people exchange opinions and views.
There is not a single defamatory comment in that thread, no risk to the existence of the forum at all.
As to the hurt feelings - my feelings were hurt by EW unacceptable behaviour.


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## Starman (28 June 2009)

I've watched it back now. Yes she inappropriately nudged it twice coming away from the bank. Certainly not all the way out at all.

What a load of clucking and squawking over a stupid mistake by a young girl. Get over it.


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## dozzie (28 June 2009)

QR

I had no preconceived ideas about EW  tbh.I had never seen anything she had done before.  But kicking the horse in the ribs with her spurs achieved nothing today. There was no point. It appeared to be in anger.  The horse had refused and she was eliminated. There were a lot of riders who showed a lot more decorum.


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## martlin (28 June 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
I've watched it back now. Yes she nudged it twice coming away from the bank. Certainly not all the way out at all.

What a load of clucking and squawking over a stupid mistake by a young girl. Get over it. 

[/ QUOTE ]

So which one is it?
Skilful professional accomplished horsewoman or a silly young girl?
It seems to me that when on winning form it's the earlier, when something doesn't go according to plan it's the latter.

I have nothing to get over, I have an opinion about her behaviour, but it certainly is not going to change MY life.


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## Starman (29 June 2009)

Did i call her a silly young girl? No - i said she was a young girl. Which she is. I made mistakes when i was her age, but i was lucky enough not to have to face a bunch of henpeckers ripping me to shreds on a public forum. Surely it's Ellen, Steven and Dawn Makin's business - not the self-appointed jury sat at home on the sofa.


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## martlin (29 June 2009)

I have no intention of shredding EW to pieces as you called it. I have the right however to criticise her behaviour...
I'm afraid when you find yourself as the SJ pin up your conduct will be scrutinised by henpeckers, such is life.


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## S_N (29 June 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
hope she is punished for it-there is no way anyone could think her treatment of the mare fair or just,a slapped arse might just teach her a lesson.... 

[/ QUOTE ]

She would be if it were racing, that is for sure!


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## itsme123 (29 June 2009)

QR

I havent seen the footage, but would like to add that Ellen write a column for one of the children's pony magazines (I think it might be H&amp;P?) and as such is fowarding herself as a role model for young riders (I also believe H&amp;P is supported by the pony club?) with posters etc accompanying the magazine and column. 

I would therefore expect a WOMAN (not girl, she's no child) of her status to be setting a shining example to young riders. 

To use spurs as punishment, a HUGE no no, and perhaps an apology would be in order? To the owners and sponsors? 

If she merely gave the horse a couple of quick jabs to encourage it out then thats different. 

I do, however, feel she should pick up that pouty bottom lip of hers before she trips over it...


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## Quadro (29 June 2009)

i think whether people agree or disagree with what she did they have the right to comment its not being bi*chy, if i posted a thread saying i though something gordon brown had done was wrong people could agree or disagree (more than likely agree 
	
	
		
		
	


	




) thats all people have done here, and thats what forums are for discussing things.


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## suzysparkle (29 June 2009)

I can understand her frustration as her Horse was doing really well up to that point allbeit not the easiest to ride. I've seen Ladina B in Puissance and she does look like she could challenge the record. I have to say I thought she would be in with a really good chance. I've always thought Ellen rides her well actually as she doesn't overly interfere. 
As for the Derby today, well, I did think she was a bit mean to the Horse. She tried bravely to get her to go down but clearly the Horse was having none of it at all. You could see her face as the bell went....and not only did she use her spurs harshly after she left the top of the bank she also used her hands quite strongly. I too have felt frustration at my Horse but I know it's pointless doing anything unless it's right at the time of refusal. Letting her away with it for being a 'young girl' I'm afraid is no excuse. She's been riding a very long time and has experience beyond most people's dreams so she really ought to have learned how to deal with things like this in a better way. I also question if any 23 year old should be classed as a 'girl' let along a young one. A young woman yes. 
I think one sharp smack right at the time of the disobedience is fair enough (is what I do) but loosing your temper is not on. I said the same of LR last year and got shot down in flames... but she also lost her temper and it was in front of a big family crowd. 
A lot is at stake in these competitions, yes. However, people should acknowledge that they are very lucky to have the talent, training, money and Horses to be doing it. Horses aren't machines and that Horse wasn't refusing out of spite.


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## [59668] (29 June 2009)

I think we should keep this going so it gets into the magazine.

I have always liked Ellen, and wasn't aware of her reputation for temper.

However, I was really upset by the way she treated her horse yesterday.  

I have no problem really with the way she was using her whip and spurs on the bank BEFORE she was eliminated, as she was fundamentaly using them to reinforce her aids, not as punishment.

I was shocked, however, with her behaviour when she was eliminated.  The way she jabbed her horse with her spurs made me wince and actually wanted to grab her and shake her.

I am never going to be able to jump the fences she does, but at any level if something goes wrong, it is never ok to do what she did.

One of the first things I was taught was that you have to be very careful when and how you choose to reprimand a horse.  I was taught to always check that the horse was being naughty, and that I'm not just giving the wrong message, or that the horse isn't scared or confused.  her horse was maybe being naughty, we don't really know, but the reprimand has to be given in a relevent way, and at the right time, and surely never by jabbing with spurs.

That horse didn't know what it was being jabbed for.  And every time she tried to move forward she got yanked in the teeth.

And the expression on Ellen's face was evil and childish.  I fear for her horses behind the scenes.

What she did was not ok.  In any way.


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## pricklyflower (29 June 2009)

Can I just add here, I didn't see it but I certainly know that if I was watching it with my 9 year old daugther who is just starting to do comps off the lead rein and who thinks EW is wonderful I would not have been impressed by my daughter seeing that behaviour! 

If she had've seen it I would've made it completely obvious to my daugther that EW's behaviour was unacceptable and that in no way would I ever condone my daugther doing that to her pony (not that she rides in spurs but the behaviour, IFSWIM).


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## Amymay (29 June 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
Yes but it does the reputation of this forum harm, puts the existence of the forum itself in jeopardy, and hurts a number of people's feelings! 

[/ QUOTE ]

The reputation of this forum is actually based in part around the strong discussions had about all sorts of issues.

I fail to see how it puts the future of the forum in jeorpardy.

And I also fail to see how hurting someones feelings by pointing out poor behaviour is also an issue.


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## Sundae (29 June 2009)

someone mentioned a lot on here didnt have such a great reoutation when I was younger....  And from what I know, I could see a lot from the horses reaction when it was caught.


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## xnaughtybutnicex (29 June 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
Did i call her a silly young girl? No - i said she was a young girl. Which she is. I made mistakes when i was her age, but i was lucky enough not to have to face a bunch of henpeckers ripping me to shreds on a public forum. Surely it's Ellen, Steven and Dawn Makin's business - not the self-appointed jury sat at home on the sofa. 

[/ QUOTE ]

I presume you have read all of the posts because you said that. Most of the users have said that she was childish - which she was, she lost her temper - which she did and that what she did was unnecessary - which it was and ok some of us may have lost our temper before BUT we didn't do it on tv and we aren't a major role model for young girls and boys. As said earlier, she has done posters and columns for horse &amp; pony magazine and she know that she has a huge young audience looking up to her.
Someone said in an earlier post that her 9 yr old daughter adores EW and many other young children want to be able to ride and compete like her.


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## happyhaffie (29 June 2009)

EW is a role model for kids, this wasnt acceptable behaviour from anyone at any level, never mind her, if she wants to continue being a role model she should seriously look at her actions, my friend who doesnt ride commented on her actions, this kind of behaviour does nothing for the sport
im 23 and wouldnt realy appreciate people calling me a girl, i am a woman and i am responsible for my own actions, i do not take out my frustration on my horses after a event and i would expect that if i did people like the folks on here would let me know about it, from my opinion of EW she is not a sportsperson, as she shows no sportmanship, as other have said you only have to look at GW to see this, i honestly think she should be punished in one way or another for her actions, be it she reads this and realises people do not support this kind of behaviour


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## Daffodil (29 June 2009)

I thought her behaviour petulent and childish, and i think she was B....y lucky that her horse stayed where it was, on top of the bank.   With all the kicking, and use of whip and spurs, if that horse had jumped off the top we could all have witnessed a tragedy.   She didn't take her whip hand off the rein, so every time she used the whip the horse's mouth was being jabbed.  It was a poor display of horsemanship and left her looking a bad sport.   I hope the stewards were keeping an eye on her in the collecting ring afterwards.


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## Flame_ (29 June 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
My point is you gain NOTHING from talking like this. Add georgie spence on facebook and her page is littered with friends saying theyve emailed HHO complaining. Its not giving us a good name... and highlighting this does no good! 

[/ QUOTE ]

Bull. If it gets back to the professionals, it lets them know their actions are being watched and judged by people and they gain a reminder that the respect of their audience and consequently their supporters needs keeping in mind. If it lets them know that their behavior is widely disapproved of it might give them the nudge they need to improve it. Oli Townend's attitude, for example, has changed and its shown in his results. If public opinion can change the attitudes of other well known riders we may actually improve a lot of our national talent. 

Although if GS is anything to go by, then a change of attitude, however it might help her popularity, didn't look likely. Although at least her treatment of horses was never under scrutiny. EW needs a serious attitude adjustment and if she takes in any of people's comments and acts on improving her behavior, amidst the bickering and bitching, HHO has done some good in the world. If she just ignores public criticism and cries about her hurt feelings, thats her loss and her problem.


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## Elle1085 (29 June 2009)

I just re watched ellens round and i have to say this whole thread is way over the top, she kicked ladina in the ribs twice after she had been eliminated, once straight away and once just after she'd come off the bank, she didn't saw at her mouth the horse always throws her head about all she did was flex the mare both ways as she was cantering out, a common thing to do when a horse has been disobedient, in my opinion she did nothing wrong and i would have no problem with her riding one of my horses. She's hardly likely to jump off the mare and give her a big hug when she's been eliminated is she. She's had a hard time the last couple of years and she's probably putting huge pressure on herself never mind the pressure coming from many other directions all she did was show her disappointment. Like it or not spurs are used as a punishment it happens it's always going to happen so there's really no point attacking one person for a relatively mild use of it


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## lucemoose (29 June 2009)

oh dear. i was next to the back- right underneath it almost and ellen barely used her legs on the bank at all! more used her bodyweight to try to influence the horse. goodness knows where you were all watching!!


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## Lill (29 June 2009)

I did actually watch her round, and i have to say i did not notice her digging her spurs in at all?! 

I'm with prittstick!


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## Ninfapaola (29 June 2009)

A really spoiled woman with a nasty streak in her.  Need teaching some manners on how to conduct herself and appreciate her horses.


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## Kentisheventer (29 June 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
I did actually watch her round, and i have to say i did not notice her digging her spurs in at all?! 

I'm with prittstick! 

[/ QUOTE ]

This is exactly what i mean... the bitchiness of the forum seems to escalate issues such as this one, and i doubt it will change EWs attitude as im sure she didn't set out to hurt the horse. Most people have done something they regret at the spur of the moment (excuse the pun!) and would rather forget about it. Im sure she made a mistake and the words of some forumers will not change her attitude; because, overall, she does not have an attitude problem. Has anyone repeatedly witnessed her mistreating her horses? No. And even if they had it would be at the discretion of the appropriate board (BSJA) to warn her and possibly punish her (i know something similar, yellow cards, is in place in BE). Obviously they did not think this warranted a 'telling off', so i think you should all get off your high horse (excuse the pun AGAIN!) and leave her alone!

Btw i am not an EW fan, and as someone who has no huge interest in showjumping i am not really biased at all.


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## Amymay (29 June 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
I did actually watch her round, and i have to say i did not notice her digging her spurs in at all?! 

I'm with prittstick! 

[/ QUOTE ]

No, she actually gave the mare a lovely ride.  It was the petulance afterwards that many of us are complaining afterwards


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## Onyxia (29 June 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
if everyone here can say they've never made a mistake with their horse or lost their temper with it then they are either lying or have the patience of a saint.

[/ QUOTE ]
They would indeed-but it's not getting pi55ed off thats the issue,how she handles her anger IS.
You do NOT take it out on the horse.


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## Sunny08 (29 June 2009)

I agree with many others on here i thought the behaviour was unacceptable and would attract criticism. If you put yourself in the public eye you must expect to be scrutinised it is human nature - what is worse is the fact that she is a Whittaker - who often are seen as having the throne of SJ-ing and looked upto by adults and children alike, we expect the highest class of horsemanship - so she needs to learn to remember that.
What with this and Micheal I think the whittaker throne may be in jeopardy of a bad rep.


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## Amymay (29 June 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
Like it or not spurs are used as a punishment it happens it's always going to happen so there's really no point attacking one person for a relatively mild use of it   

[/ QUOTE ] 

I can't believe that someone has actually typed a sentence like that.  Is it honestly your opinion that if something occurs which is wrong there is no point in discussing it because discussion won't change what happens????


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## xnaughtybutnicex (29 June 2009)

And I just read that will whitaker has been suspended for doping aswell (post in comp. riders.) Oh dear, not a great week for the whitakers but no doubt they'll be back on top soon.

ETS - I think the poster got it wrong actually and was talking about Michael, not will.


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## Attila_the_Hungry (29 June 2009)

I try not to say anything on here that I wouldn't say in person. On reading through here I've seen terms such as spoiled, wicked, cruel, witch and evil used about the person in question. I wonder if the posters would be prepared to say these things to the persons face?

I can't comment on the incident in question as I haven't seen it yet. I was busy doing a prelim test yesterday afternoon (don't ask me why, I don't know either!) and I can't get it on iPlayer until I'm back from Belgium. However, BSJA have rules and procedures for this and if it was bad then I would expect some form of action there. Maybe someone should ask the BSJA about it?


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## Elle1085 (29 June 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
 [ QUOTE ]
Like it or not spurs are used as a punishment it happens it's always going to happen so there's really no point attacking one person for a relatively mild use of it   

[/ QUOTE ] 

I can't believe that someone has actually typed a sentence like that.  Is it honestly your opinion that if something occurs which is wrong there is no point in discussing it because discussion won't change what happens???? 

[/ QUOTE ]

No i'm just saying that calling Ellen names is not going to solve anything it just makes the forum look bitchy and petty imo


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## sleepingdragon10 (29 June 2009)

Oh my word! You don't seriously mean that comment re:spurs? i'm lost for words i really am............


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## Amymay (29 June 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
No i'm just saying that calling Ellen names is not going to solve anything it just makes the forum look bitchy and petty imo   

[/ QUOTE ] 

I think it just shows the strength of feeling of people who view using spurs as a form of punishment - as well as the unprofessional attitude of someone who should know better.


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## Elle1085 (29 June 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
Oh my word! You don't seriously mean that comment re:spurs? i'm lost for words i really am............ 

[/ QUOTE ]

No i probably don't and in no way am i saying that it's a good thing to do but i personally have been told by a respected trainer to kick my horse in the ribs with my spurs take whatever you want from that. In my view the issue with ellen is not what she did but the way she did it in admittedly a bratty way


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## JessPickle (29 June 2009)

I read this before watching the re run on I-player.  I was expecting to see something far worse than what I actually saw!! people certainly exagerated.  She rode a nice round and the spur moment people are referring to could as just as easily been to make her horse go down the other way off the bank! as I have seen many a time where people get completely stuck on the top of the bank!!


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## xnaughtybutnicex (29 June 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Oh my word! You don't seriously mean that comment re:spurs? i'm lost for words i really am............ 

[/ QUOTE ]

No i probably don't and in no way am i saying that it's a good thing to do but i personally have been told by a respected trainer to kick my horse in the ribs with my spurs take whatever you want from that. In my view the issue with ellen is not what she did but the way she did it in admittedly a bratty way 

[/ QUOTE ]

Well that is pretty much what most other people have said (excluding the few that called her a nasty witch and things like that.) She gave the horse a kick in the ribs after being eliminated and that did make her appeared to be a little spoilt and throwing a tantrum. I don't really think she was as harsh as some poeple are saying but that what she did was unnecessary and because she lost her temper and she should be setting a better example.

IMO saying she appeared to be a bit spoilt is not being overly nasty to EW or just bitching. Her actions led many people to believe that and those people (including myself) are entitled to that opinion.

I realise I will probably still be jumped on for saying that but it is my OPINION and I won't change it because you think that I am being intentionally bitchy.

ETA- That wasn't directly completely at you elle, I was writing what I did as a general thing.


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## SnowPhony (29 June 2009)

How I'd love to give EW a dig in the ribs with some spurs. Maybe that would get rid of her spoilt brat attitude!


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## Kentisheventer (29 June 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
spoilt brat attitude! 

[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps overboard! Youre basing this view on one individual event?


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## Amymay (29 June 2009)

Kentisheventer - I think your signature is very interesting and apt.

Because whilst you can't build your reputation on what you may do - you can certainly build it on what you have done (obviously)........

You get where I'm comming from with this?


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## Elle1085 (29 June 2009)

I don't think what you have said is bitchy but some things said on here have been and as for the people who haven't even seen the "incident" well...... 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 And for the record when i said about spurs as a punishment i didn't mean say someone who doesn't normally wear spurs putting them on with the intention of hurting a horse i meant if a horse is naughty and you wear spurs anyway it is not uncommon to give it a quick jab. i sometimes just feel as if people are very naive about the horse industry.


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## Embob1 (29 June 2009)

Woah, just read the whole 8 pages of this thread, yes, I have no life 
	
	
		
		
	


	





I must say, I think EW acted wrongly when she 'jabbed' the horse with her spurs, and yes it appeared that she did so because it didn't go her way, but have you taken into consideration that she had to get the horse back down the bank it clearly didn't like?  I'm not a huge EW fan, but I do agree with Kentisheventer that it's not fair for her to get shot down like this on a forum of people that don't know her.

Don't get me wrong, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and many people have given theirs, but I do think that some posts have been a little harsh and this has been made out to be so much worse than it was.  I just rewatched it on iPlayer, and it wasn't as bad as it has been made out to be in this post.

Again, agreeing with Kentisheventer, you won't gain anything from slating her, so I'm confused as to why some posts are so harsh and unsympathetic towards EW, that horse does not look easy to ride, and I would never dream of arguing with it on top of that bank, I think she was brave to try, and she gave it her best and things didn't go her way, which happens all the time in life.  

Yet again I say I think she was wrong to dig her spurs in, but for all we know she may have regretted it afterwards - as many riders do lash out at the time if it doesn't go to plan, the only reason so many people have things to say about this is because she's in the public eye, this sort of thing happens all the time at local shows - yes it's not what I would call acceptable, but it happens.

As I said before, I'm not a massive fan of EW, but I don't wish to slate her because as someone said above, I wouldn't say this sort of thing her face given the chance.  Also, I think she does ride very well, and she did ride very nicely before the bank yesterday.  KE is right to say this is getting blown out of proportion and he's right to say that she made a mistake and people should 'get over it' as such.

Like I said, we don't know her and for all we know she could regret it herself, but the past is the past, it happened and she, nor anyone else can change it.

That's just my opinion, agree, disagree, I'm not bothered as everyone is entitled to an opinion


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## chestnut cob (29 June 2009)

[ QUOTE ]

Again, agreeing with Kentisheventer, you won't gain anything from slating her, so I'm confused as to why some posts are so harsh and unsympathetic towards EW, that horse does not look easy to ride, and I would never dream of arguing with it on top of that bank, I think she was brave to try, and she gave it her best and things didn't go her way, which happens all the time in life.  


[/ QUOTE ]

She wasn't "brave to try" at all.  It is her job.  She is where she is because she is brave (ignoring the obviously family connections and horse power behind her  
	
	
		
		
	


	




).  She chose to be there, she wasn't forced.

[ QUOTE ]
 Yet again I say I think she was wrong to dig her spurs in, but for all we know she may have regretted it afterwards - as many riders do lash out at the time if it doesn't go to plan, the only reason so many people have things to say about this is because she's in the public eye, this sort of thing happens all the time at local shows - yes it's not what I would call acceptable, but it happens.


[/ QUOTE ]

But the point is that she should have learnt to control her temper.  Riding isn't about having a temper tantrum and then trying to make it up to the horse later.  If she's truly a good horsewoman then she would control her temper.  I don't know what happened behind the scenes but I didn't see Sharon Hunt lose her temper at Badminton when TT wouldn't go into the XC start box  
	
	
		
		
	


	





[ QUOTE ]
 As I said before, I'm not a massive fan of EW, but I don't wish to slate her because as someone said above, I wouldn't say this sort of thing her face given the chance.  Also, I think she does ride very well, and she did ride very nicely before the bank yesterday.  KE is right to say this is getting blown out of proportion and he's right to say that she made a mistake and people should 'get over it' as such.


[/ QUOTE ]

I would say all of what I have said to her face.  I think she needs to learn to control her temper a little better.  I'm not her biggest fan but I'm not sure I would go as far as to call her a lot of the names that have been used on this thread, but she really does need to learn to appreciate what she has and curb her temper better.  She doesn't do herself any favours and makes herself look spoilt with that sort of behaviour.

[ QUOTE ]
Like I said, we don't know her and for all we know she could regret it herself, but the past is the past, it happened and she, nor anyone else can change it.


[/ QUOTE ]

No, it is in the past and it can't be changed.  However on the off chance this thread is bought to her attention, may it will make her think twice about her behaviour in future.  In which case, there is something to be gained from this thread if it makes her appreciate her horse a little more...


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## Embob1 (29 June 2009)

Ok,  very true chestnut cob that she chose to be there, but I still stick to my thoughts that I can't imagine having to fight to get that horse down that bank and I think she tried her hardest, but as you say, she chose to be there - fair point.

Again, fair point, she should control her anger, but many people lash out without even thinking about it, whether it's in the equestrian world, or just every day life.  She should without a doubt not have acted that way infront of so many people (as others have said in this thread) because there are many younger riders who look up to her, so yes, she was wrong, but she lost her temper, like I said, many people do, it was a mistake.  Everyone makes mistakes, and I'm sure she knows it, specially if she watches back her round, and maybe it will make a change to the way she rides the next time she's in that kind of situation.

And I say fair enough to you for voicing your complete honest opinions if you would say exactly what you have written to her face, but I think there are a few people in this thread that would never be able to do that themselves and that's what I find unfair.

People are always going to disagree about something like this, everyone will always have their own thoughts and that's fine, I see the points in absolutely every one of your thoughts, and I don't disagree, but I don't agree.

I see many different thoughts and their points, but I will stick to my own opinion, as will, rightly so, everyone else


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## SnowPhony (29 June 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
spoilt brat attitude! 

[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps overboard! Youre basing this view on one individual event? 

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think so at all. It didn't go her way, so she threw a paddy. That to me is a spoilt brat attitude.

Punishing a horse with spurs is absoloutley abhorrent especially from a professional who young chidren look up too.


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## TS_ (29 June 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
If anyone behaved as she did I would be equally as disgusted.  Me not particularly liking her has nothing to do with my comment - nor I believe anyone elses on here. 

[/ QUOTE ]

But would it have made a thread this long? 
No.
I really do think this thread had blown what she did completely out of proportion.


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## Weezy (29 June 2009)

I have thought and thought about this, rewatched the footage again and again and sorry but I still cannot see the brutality that people are exclaiming about.  Sure, on a worldwide stage she prob shouldn't have given the second kick, but hey, we have all done it have we not?  Can you all HONESTLY say that you haven't given your horse a kick because you are frustrated?  Have you not ever jabbed your horse in the mouth because you were pissed off?  If you honestly haven't then good for you 
	
	
		
		
	


	




  Ellen would have ridden Ladina down banks before, she would have known that she *can* do it and I am sure she felt as though the horse was playing her up and that is what she portrayed.  The girl is a real competitor and I am sure she was cross with herself for being cross with her horse, but she was only asking for a few minutes of attention...

And I have never been the girl's biggest fan!


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## TS_ (29 June 2009)

Well said.


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## 3BayGeldings (29 June 2009)

I agree with Weezy too.


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## Erehwemos (29 June 2009)

QR

Jaysus Christ! What a great load of fuss over nothing - when I read this I wondered whether the Ellen Whitaker I watched was the same one the rest of HHO had seen - until the likes of Weezy, Cattie and JessPickle spoke some sense 
	
	
		
		
	


	





Mum and I watched the Derby yesterday from start to finish, and during EW's problems on the bank, we both commented that she looked a 'wee bit peed off'. It is impossible to deny the fact that she did give the horse a bit of a kick on the way down the bank - but then, how many people here can honestly say they have NEVER transmitted any form of anger or frustration through to their horse? I know I have. Not in the form of spurs - I never had cause to wear them for show jumping - but a quick kick in the ribs following a repeated nappiness in the dressage arena? A slap down the neck following elimination in the showjumping arena? Guilty as charged here, I'm afraid 
	
	
		
		
	


	





The impression given by this thread is that HHO is largely frequented by riders of angelic behaviour, who ALWAYS remain in control of their feelings no matter what the situation, and who never have nor will stoop so low as to smack, spur, kick or admonish their horse in any way. B*llocks. I have yet to meet such a rider! Whilst I am not saying EW was right, am I right in thinking that Ladina had actually jumped clear up to that point? She has obviously been down banks before in her life - Uncle Michael has a full sized Derby replica course after all - so I can totally see why EW would be frustrated at coming to grief there. And I would like to say that if it had been me, I'd have smiled sweetly, patted the horse on the neck and ridden out of the arena waving to the crowd. But until you are in that situation, riding high on that wave of adrenalin - how can you tell? My guess is that there are a lot of hypocrites here 
	
	
		
		
	


	





On a similar subject, those who believe that what EW did counts as abject cruelty, or 'wickedness', or 'appalling behaviour' - I take it you have not watched much show jumping then? Believe me, a quick jab in the ribs pales into insignificance compared with the practices of some I could name - in my time I have seen a mare beaten in the ring at Hickstead until she peed herself in terror, after a refusal at the first fence. I recall a certain young lady - also present at Hickstead this week - who fell off her pony at HOYS many years back and proceeded to beat it about the face with her whip. Then of course, there is rapping, electric spurs, hedgehog skins on poles....do I need to go on?

What an awful fuss over nothing


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## FestiveSpirit (29 June 2009)

Well I duly toddled off and watched the footage on I Player, and I shall add my opinions to the many....

I think the kick after elimination was out of order.  Yes, I have probably done similar things in frustration (although I dont wear spurs  
	
	
		
		
	


	




) but I am not a professional show jumper who is supposed to act as a role model for young children/teenagers who is appearing on national TV.

It is a bit like the general public expecting all police officers to be saints - they are just human like you and I, they sometimes screw up, but woe betide if they do so on live national TV


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## 98274957 (29 June 2009)

Please listen to some people. Lots have people have said that what she did wasnt that bad in terms of horse abuse or whatever u want to call it, but she is unprofesional. The publics opinion of showjumping is fragile, ellen completely spat her dummie out in front of the cameras and basically acted like a spoilt 10 yr old. nothing more nothing less. if u cant control ur dissapointment canter straight out and get off it.


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## TS_ (29 June 2009)

The thing is though, I personally have never jumped that big or on live tv in front of tons of people but I bet if I did I would have high expectations and bucket loads of adrenaline running through me! So for a horse that I believe was completely capable and having a nice round I would be p*ssed off. I imagine EW felt the same as I would have. She's worked hard to get where she is, despite what people will say, no matter how much money she has or who her family is if she couldn't ride she wouldn't be at that level. So I think what she did isn't exactly a hanging offence. I think the difference between me and EW (apart from the obvious 
	
	
		
		
	


	




) is that I would have turned the horse around and done it straight away. Not saying I owuld have but if I was going to.
If you think a quick dig in the sides is so horrendous I'd hate for you to go to local shows with people who aren't in the same position as EW, you'd be shocked if this thread is anything to go by.
And yes she's a roll model but I wasn't aware there were so many perfect people in the world


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## 98274957 (29 June 2009)

Oh and i forgot to say i wouldnt bet ur bottom dollar that ellen has used MW bank. Family ties are not all they are made out to be!!


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## Starman (29 June 2009)

Nice to hear some common sense coming through from Weezy &amp; co.

And Kingvean - you obviously don't have a clue what you're talking about 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 And John Whitaker has a substantial derby bank as well that is most up to height.


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## Amymay (29 June 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
If you think a quick dig in the sides is so horrendous I'd hate for you to go to local shows with people who aren't in the same position as EW, you'd be shocked if this thread is anything to go by.  

[/ QUOTE ] 

Cattie, your reply sums up for me how misunderstood this thread has become.  The issue is not whether what she did was horrendous or not - it obviously wasn't.  The issue is that a _professional_ should know better than to behave like this.  That is all.  And as most of us take our leads from these so called professionals, don't you think it's a good idea for them to at least try and behave in a moderately professional manner?  

It's these people that the numpties at your local show jumping competition are trying to emulate after all....... 
	
	
		
		
	


	





How can you teach standards to kids, when the very people they admire seem to have so few themselves.?


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## Tormenta (29 June 2009)

I agree with Weezy in many points. I watched it again today and rerun it because I had it recorded on Sky+.  I honestly expected to see a major tantrum but instead I saw her dig the horse coming down off the bank with her spurs.  Would I do it or jab my horse in the mouth? No, I wouldn't but I do think this bashing has gone over what it was. I have seen much worse in form of abuse from Jockeys, trainers and other competitors and it has never had as many pages and as big as a reaction as this so what that says I'm not altogether sure.  
	
	
		
		
	


	





Yes she should have straightened her petulant face and accepted that it doesn't always go the way you wish it to, yes she should keep in mind that she is watched and looked up to by many younger riders but the actual incident itself was not what I expected to see.  I am not condoning her behaviour, she could be doing with a bit of talking to and a reminder of how to behave, e.g. Guy Williams and her cousin Will.  I thought Will Whitaker's descent from that bank was outstanding. He has the the magic touch that lad!


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## 3BayGeldings (29 June 2009)

Amymay you sound like you're getting a bit desperate now to keep up the offensive against Ellen Whitaker. 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 You've made your point (a lot) so why not just leave it there..?


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## TS_ (29 June 2009)

I'm not denying that professionals who we all look up to and aspire to be (well ride like, I think you know what I mean) shouldn't behave suitably but honestly there have been many a professional rider who has not always done so. Just because they make a mistake doesn't mean they're a bad evil witch (I beilieve she's been called all of these things on here and more) it simply means that she is human. She has hopes, dreams, drive and aspirations just like all of us and to have these stopped in there tracks by something that the horse could easily have done but unfortunatly didn't must have been tough. She trains and works hard and deserves some good fortune because lately she's not been as on top of her game as she has been. Except for with puissance because my goodness that horse can jump!
So I agree that professionals riders need to act in a suitable manner but surely you can see that she's a human, who is probably under an awful lot of pressure. A slip up doesn't deserve the bashing she's recieved on here.


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## Amymay (29 June 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
Amymay you sound like you're getting a bit desperate now to keep up the offensive against Ellen Whitaker. 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 You've made your point (a lot) so why not just leave it there..? 

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL - do I????

Which point exactly sounded desparate??


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## Lucy_Nottingham (29 June 2009)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slMhsHyts4w

here is a link to it on youtube.... 

It looked like she was doing well, then when it went wrong (and don't get me wrong I know horses go down the bank, but I would not be one to take them down! so kudos for people with guts to do it) but when the horses didnt do it, refused point blank, tried 2x and just said NO not gonna happen she turn the horse round AWAY from the bank, and then spurred it...... like training any animal, taking it away from the obstacle then punishing it is just pointless....... 
I am not saying she should have spurred it that hard on the edge of the bank, or at all, but if she was going to strongly attempt to go down the bank, it should have been at the bank, not on the walk out when the horse won't know why its being punished...... 

you wouldnt smack a dog when walking to heel when 5 mins ago it ran off after another dog would you?!!


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## 3BayGeldings (29 June 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Amymay you sound like you're getting a bit desperate now to keep up the offensive against Ellen Whitaker. 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 You've made your point (a lot) so why not just leave it there..? 

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL - do I????

Which point exactly sounded desparate?? 
	
	
		
		
	


	





[/ QUOTE ]#

Maybe the fact that you're replying to many people with a differing opinion to yours. Not everyone's replies to this topic are aimed at you. 

Guess i'm just amazed that this topic has gone on for 9 pages with the same points being reiterated over and over again, and often by the same people.


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## 3BayGeldings (29 June 2009)

And yes Cattie, it's the personal attacks on Ellen that got my back up. I'm assuming most of us don't know her so how can so many people comment on her personality and call her such offensive names as 'witch' and 'wench'.

It's just plan rudeness.


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## Amymay (29 June 2009)

Have I responded to everyone???  I'm not sure that I have. 

But regardless, aren't we having a discussion - am I not entitled to respond to anyone I want to???  Isn't that what having a 'conversation' is about?


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## Erehwemos (29 June 2009)

[ QUOTE ]

you wouldnt smack a dog when walking to heel when 5 mins ago it ran off after another dog would you?!! 

[/ QUOTE ]

No, you wouldnt - not 5 minutes later. But you might 5 seconds after the incident...


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## 3BayGeldings (29 June 2009)

Yes AmyMay... you make the 'everyones entitled to an opinion' point very, very regularly. I get it. Free speech. Who doesn't love it?


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## Amymay (29 June 2009)

Apparently not you pet.


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## xnaughtybutnicex (29 June 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
Have I responded to everyone???  I'm not sure that I have. 

But regardless, aren't we having a discussion - am I not entitled to respond to anyone I want to???  Isn't that what having a 'conversation' is about? 

[/ QUOTE ]

This conversation went on 'til quite late last night and early this morning and obviously Amy had to go to bed at some point, or she might have answered everyones comments


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## lannerch (29 June 2009)

I watched all of hickstead on bbc 2 before this post was written, I watched ellen ride and was sickened to see her ride after she was eliminated!

I was not biased by this thread this thread did not even exhist however I was distribed to see a rider I had had such respect for loose her temper in that way, I was willing her to pat the horse after, she did not.

For those who still cannot see what she did wrong, thankgoodness you are never going to be riding my horses!


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## 98274957 (29 June 2009)

obviously I dont- and who is that according too? 
Unless things have change dramatically in the last 2 years since iv been out of YR, Stephen did very much his own thing with his horses and his kids. Can u not see the difference in the way his horses go and kids ride compared to the others?? For a long time I was told that Stephan did not speak to the other brothers and has only recently started talking to them again, I also thought there was friction over the Quinton horse, but please correct me if you are a better source??


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## LauraBR (29 June 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slMhsHyts4w

here is a link to it on youtube.... 

[/ QUOTE ]

That is her riding a different horse at last years Derby


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## JessPickle (29 June 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slMhsHyts4w

here is a link to it on youtube.... 


[/ QUOTE ]

the horse involved this year was grey


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## xnaughtybutnicex (29 June 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slMhsHyts4w

here is a link to it on youtube.... 

[/ QUOTE ]

That is her riding a different horse at last years Derby  
	
	
		
		
	


	





[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, I was confused when I watched this one instead yesterday aswell. I think it is only playing on BBC I-player at the moment.


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## TS_ (29 June 2009)

I still can't see why people are making into something more than it is. It's not like she got off the horse smacked it around the face, kicked it in the side whilest on the ground and then yanked the bit out of its mouth as she walked out.
Yes, ok digging in with spurs isn't ideal but I don't think it will have recieved any lasting damage. In fact the horse and everyone else involved has probably forgotton about it and it's just on here it's being continually over.


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## Lucy_Nottingham (29 June 2009)

ahh bugger got the wrong link!

damn it! ok il go sit in a corner and blush! hehe 

..... goes on the search for correct clip if its available yet.......


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## Lou23 (29 June 2009)

I've seen alot worse at local shows and to be honest i don't think many of her young followers would have noticed the dig with the spurs.

Ellen has still done well to get where she has today and even with the whitaker name she still has to be a capable, confident rider or she wouldn't be out at that level of competing.

I'm not condoning what she did but i've seen worse and at the end of the day her horse is ok


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## Elle1085 (29 June 2009)

At last i was beginning to think i was the only one who was not disturbed/shocked/sickened. What a fuss over 2 kicks from an 8 stoneish girl/lady with blunt spurs, anyone would think she'd put razor blades on her feet. I would rather ride Ellens horses than ones that get patted for stopping ffs while we're at it why not give them a carrot for biting and a kiss for kicking.


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## Silverspring (29 June 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
It is a bit like the general public expecting all police officers to be saints - they are just human like you and I, they sometimes screw up, but woe betide if they do so on live national TV  
	
	
		
		
	


	





[/ QUOTE ]

That is exactly what it's like, I haven't seen the clip but I don't believe for amoment every single person condeming Ellen has not got a bit frustrated towards a horse and done something that they may have later (once the rage has subsided) realised was a tad harsh.

I would say a few digs in the ribs with spurs is alot less offensive than taking the hand of the rein and succesively smacking the horse which is allowed under BSJA rules (to an extent)

Mountain mole-hill springs to mind.


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## lannerch (29 June 2009)

Sure you may be right but then how many of us condoning not condeming ellen for her actions are professionals in the public eye at all times.

And what really upset me is she did not jab her spurs and then immeditaly feel guilty for over reactiing she continued to overreact,  under the watchful eye of the television cameras.

In this instance not a great role model for all those aspiring show jumper juniors watching!

The horse was scared, it was in unknown territory it should have been patted!


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## brighthair (29 June 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It is a bit like the general public expecting all police officers to be saints - they are just human like you and I, they sometimes screw up, but woe betide if they do so on live national TV  
	
	
		
		
	


	





[/ QUOTE ]

That is exactly what it's like, I haven't seen the clip but I don't believe for amoment every single person condeming Ellen has not got a bit frustrated towards a horse and done something that they may have later (once the rage has subsided) realised was a tad harsh.

I would say a few digs in the ribs with spurs is alot less offensive than taking the hand of the rein and succesively smacking the horse which is allowed under BSJA rules (to an extent)

Mountain mole-hill springs to mind. 

[/ QUOTE ]

she did also smack the horse 8 times...


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## Lou23 (29 June 2009)

I think its all going a bit over the top.

If she used her whip 8 times, she wasn't beating the horse with it.

As i said earlier, i don't think her young show jumping followers would have noticed and i know my daughter has seen worse from adults at shows.

And again her horse is fine.


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## lannerch (29 June 2009)

but not adults she aspires to!

That is the point a proffesional in a sport any sport particularly one that is followed by younger fans should realise that part of their job for which they are paid is a role model and represenatative of this country.

It is the same with jockeys, footballers, tennis players if they are in the public eye and they do wrong they must expect to at the very least be harshly critizied for it.

I too see far crueler people than I am sure ellen will ever be, however they are not paid for what they do and are certainly never nor likely to be under the public eye.

two wrongs do not make a right!


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## brighthair (29 June 2009)

I'm not saying she was  _beating_  the horse with it - but 8 times?! when does it become excessive then - 9,10,11? I could almost understand 8 times over the course - a smack before each fence maybe but come on, if the horse isn't going off legs, spurs and a few smacks of the whip, why keep doing it?


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## tabithakat64 (29 June 2009)

I thought Ellen acted like a spoilt brat and showed what a bad sport and poor horse women she is. 

I don't think she should be writing articles for Pony magazine etc as she has been seen delivering un-necessary punishment to the horse on TV and isn't a suitable role model.


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## Onyxia (29 June 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
I've seen alot worse at local shows and to be honest i don't think many of her young followers would have noticed the dig with the spurs.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes?
I cant stand the "I've seen worse" argument. 
	
	
		
		
	


	




Any person at the top of a sport sets the bar-everything they do will be seen and copied by those trying to get to the top,bad behaviour filters down as well as good.Most of those you see at local shows have got the idea bad behaviour is fine because the pros do it too...


I think children notice far more then we give them credit for-they WILL have spotted it.


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## PapaFrita (30 June 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
I think its all going a bit over the top.

If she used her whip 8 times, she wasn't beating the horse with it.

As i said earlier, i don't think her young show jumping followers would have noticed and i know my daughter has seen worse from adults at shows.

And again her horse is fine. 

[/ QUOTE ]
I think 8 whacks IS a beating. Sorry. And just because you've seen worse (so have I, BTW) doesn't make EW's behaviour any more acceptable. I'm also sure her followers _would_ have noticed (the same way they notice bits/nosebands/etc) and would consider it OK to behave in the same way.


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## 3BayGeldings (30 June 2009)

Have you seen the way she 'whipped' the horse PF? They weren't much more than slaps. Honestly. 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 DEFINITELY not beating.


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## PapaFrita (30 June 2009)

Nope, I confess I've not seen the video (can't watch in Argentina). Now I'm very confused (more so than usual) If EW considered the horse had been unreasonably nappy (also open to debate and I can't comment as didn't witness the event) why did she not administer one or two proper smacks instead of 8 mild(ish) swats? Makes no sense


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## 3BayGeldings (30 June 2009)

Well, my judgement is that she gave it quite a few slaps (Say 8) then took her hand off the rein to give it a couple of harder smacks. But i suppose you'd be a bit nervous to give it a massive whallop in case the mare DID just jump off.. I imagine it's very tricky when your horse is refusing to go down that bank as you want to encourage them forward.. but  not too forward!


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## PaddyMonty (30 June 2009)

Only got to atch the Derbuy last night.  After some of the comments on here I was expecting to go 
	
	
		
		
	


	








Frankly it was more a case of  
	
	
		
		
	


	




 Really cant see what all the fuss is about and IMHO the whole thing has been blown way out of proportion.


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## Janette (30 June 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slMhsHyts4w

here is a link to it on youtube.... 



[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks, for the link, I missed the round.  The quality isn't that brilliant but I honestly could not see her deliver 2 hefty pony club style kicks as I have been led to believe happened after the reactions on this board.  And I watched it a few times very closely.


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## Silverspring (30 June 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slMhsHyts4w

here is a link to it on youtube.... 



[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks, for the link, I missed the round.  The quality isn't that brilliant but I honestly could not see her deliver 2 hefty pony club style kicks as I have been led to believe happened after the reactions on this board.  And I watched it a few times very closely. 

[/ QUOTE ]

That's because the video is from last year the comments below it are over 3 months old


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## xspiralx (30 June 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
Nope, I confess I've not seen the video (can't watch in Argentina). Now I'm very confused (more so than usual) If EW considered the horse had been unreasonably nappy (also open to debate and I can't comment as didn't witness the event) why did she not administer one or two proper smacks instead of 8 mild(ish) swats? Makes no sense 
	
	
		
		
	


	





[/ QUOTE ]

I would imagine because she didn't want the mare to leap off the top of the derby bank?  
	
	
		
		
	


	





My take on it is that her riding on top of the bank was fine - she smacked the mare a fair few times but it was not more than slaps with her hands still on the reins, and spread out over the whole time the mare was dithering, which was quite a while. IMO there was nothing excessive about it.

To be honest I agree that this whole thread is a total overreaction. I agree that Ellen should not have jabbed the mare and shown the temper that she did, but I really don't think her actions warrant being described as "evil."


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## M_G (30 June 2009)

I thought she was rather reserved, by the look on her face I thought the horse was in for a dam good hiding (who was the lad a few years ago who smacked his horse in the head with the whip?) I thought she controlled herself fairly well.


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## Pinkwellies2 (30 June 2009)

It was the spoilt brat face she pulled when the klaxion sounded for the elimination that spoilt it for me. 
Never really been a fan, but up till then I was thinking what a good job she was making of riding what was obviously not an easy horse to ride.  Even felt sorry for her at the top of the bank then the buzzer went and that face appeared.  The one little girls pull when they don't get their own way, made me think of Violet Elisabeth Blott who would  stamp her feet and "scream and scream until I'm sick" if she didn't get what she wanted. 

She is a professional horsewoman (not a little girl) and really should be able to act in a professional way.  Her reaction made me wonder what would happen to the horse once it was out of the public eye and and Iwonder how many others felt the same.
As for the way she rode it out of the ring, she was obviously annoyed and in hindsight  she should have been able to control her emotions and ridden it more sympathetically
There were others who had disppointing rounds who have been mentioned on here, Trevor Breen comes to mind who only got as far as the Road Closed when his horse refused twice.  He must have been bitterly disappointed but he managed to remain professional and dignified.  Might be a bit biaised as am a Trevor fan (he rides my friends horse).  The guy who fell off too was a good example of how a professional should behave.

I like to hope that when she had got over the disappointment EW may have felt bad about her reaction and regrets it, I am the eternal optimist and like to see the good in everyone.  I suppose we are used to the Whittakers not showing any reaction, they are as a whole a very controlled bunch.


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## lannerch (30 June 2009)

pinkwellies I totally agree.

You have summarised what happened very well, no she was not evil that is ott however I too was left with that fear of what she might do back in the collecting ring.

And I agree with you I too expect after the heat of the situation has blown over she will regret it and learn from it so there can be a postitive out of the whole incident.

lucky your friend to have trevor ride her horses your right he is a true profeesional as was guy (who fell off )


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## PapaFrita (30 June 2009)

Ok, I get your point. Personally I would've nudged on with my heels (I don't wear spurs 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 ) but I suppose she knows her horse  FTR I think calling her 'evil' is also something of an overstatement, but unless I'm mistaken (and I don't think I am on this occasion 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 ) she does have something of a record for brattish behaviour, does she not? She IS, like it or not, a role model for young riders and if she's seen to do something, it _will_ be imitated. 8 swats/a jab with the spurs... not behaviour that should necessarily be imitated, not least because I'm not sure young children are able to apply such discipline in the correct context.
Anyhoo, that's just what I think


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## M_G (30 June 2009)

I thought Guy Was fantastic, when he fall off he was more concerned in re assuring the horse


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## Amymay (30 June 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
I thought Guy Was fantastic, when he fall off he was more concerned in re assuring the horse 

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's very interesting that a huge majority of top riders really do treat their horses as the 'professional's they are.  Giving them the respect they deserve for the job they do.


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## M_G (30 June 2009)

I am not a big watcher of the sport but Guy really made me smile. I would like to think all the horses are treated with such respect and care....


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## joy (30 June 2009)

I am not going to get into this argument, however having watched the round I feel that the klaxon should have sounded a long time before it did.
It appeared to me that the judges gave her a lot of leeway on the top of that bank.
If she had been eliminated sooner I suspect a lot of this would have been avoided.


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## OneInAMillion (30 June 2009)

thats the wrong link she wasnt riding that horse on sn it was Ladina B


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## FRESHMAN (30 June 2009)

Ellen has her own Derby Bank LOL 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 So doesnt need Uncle M's


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## JJ1987 (1 July 2009)

Thought I may as well add my opinion to this thread as have been discussing it since going to watch the Derby on the Sunday with those that were there with me at the time.

I watched the round again on BBC iPlayer when I got home and therefore have the benefit of eye witness and secondary source info (sound like I'm writing a history report again lol!)

Just looking at her behaviour on the bank, she was pulling the horse around from side to side constantly whilst stood at the top and it seems like no one has noticed the big smack she gave the horse with her hand off the rein right on the edge - she's very lucky IMO that it didn't leap off the top just from that as she had to grab hold of her reins and hold it back once she had smacked it!

She didn't give it a chance to look down the bank - a lot of riders stopped at the top, let their horses have a bit of a look then asked quietly for the horse to go down the bank and most were successful with this tactic, Ellen almost seemed to expect Ladina to go straight down and I think the shock in the horse was evident with the way it came straight back up the first time.

The way she was using the whip whilst holding onto the reins actually looks very severe and sharp, pulling the horse in the mouth as she does it and then there was an obvious clout with her hand off the rein that I mention before.

As for the dig in the ribs that occurs once at the top of the bank and secondly as she turns for the exit these were completely unnecessary. A lot of people who have written on here don't seem to understand that most people who have said the jabs were unnecessary are taking into account the other riders' reactions to things going wrong - I think just about everyone who was eliminated or retired patted their horses, namely Guy Williams' behaviour after falling off and Geoff Billington when he decided to pull up after finding it wasn't going his way. No one else set about with a dirty look on their face and jabbing their horse in the sides, pulling it about from side to side just like Ellen did.

Another note about that first jab she gives when coming off the bank, she was nowhere near the side of the bank she came down to get off when she did this jab so it was purely out of malice for not going down the original route and not to encourage it to come down that side as a lot of people seem to think. There was most definately no reason for the second jab in the ribs except for a reminder that she wasn't pleased with what had happened and it only served to wind the horse up more.

It annoys me on here when people criticise others for having an opinion. No, most of us probably wouldn't be able to achieve some of the things Ellen has; no we probably wouldn't be able to jump round the Derby and yes some of us have probably reacted in the same way now and again when things haven't gone right for us with our horses, however the criticism is for her actions in the situation she was in (public forum, lots of kids around, television coverage etc etc) and the fact that no one else riding reacted in the same way when things didn't go right for them. It is not purely a dig at Ellen Whitaker although she has been known for her temper tantrums in the past.

I'd have loved to be a fly on the wall as she walked it back out the arena and to the box to see what she did out of sight of the crowds and cameras due to the look on her face and the way she reacted in the arena but of course this is pure speculation before I get jumped on for voicing this thought.

Ladina B does not look an easy horse to ride and I can understand that one would be very upset for being eliminated in a competition that costs over £400 just to enter, however it does not excuse the behaviour of someone who is supposed to be one of our main ambassadors for the sport.

End of rant and opinion, no doubt someone will have something to say about it lol!

Having just previewed it, kudos to anyone who manages to read the whole lot!!!


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## pricklyflower (1 July 2009)

JJ1987 I'll accept your kudos because I got to the end but wine or choccies are much more exciting  

I agree with your post wholeheartedly. I only watched it last night (I sky+'d it) and after reading this thread was keen to see what she did. Initially, after reading this thread, I thought I would see something appauling (what you imagine is sometimes much worse) but whilst it wasn't that bad, it still wasn't a nice thing to watch. 

I can't remember who said it but I'll agree with them when they said it was bratish behaviour. I've seen jag her horse in the mouth when it refused in the past and was shocked at that at the time because I haven't seen much of that sort of behaviour going on with the other "professional" riders (although I will add I don't watch an excessive amount so please correct me if I'm wrong).

Like it or not, when you are in the spotlight, for whatever reason, your actions are scrutinised by others and you have to be aware of them. If someone at my local BSJA did that I probably wouldn't post it on an internet forum because HHO members wouldn't know the person I was talking about!


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## Amymay (1 July 2009)

Good to get a first hand account and view JJ.

Thanks.


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## sandr (1 July 2009)

Can anyone please tell me the time on BBCI player she is? I dont want to watch the whole 2 hours!


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## JJ1987 (1 July 2009)

Bossandbelle it's at 2 hours 7 mins she comes in. On the whole, the rest of the round was fine and I agree Ladina B is not an easy ride, having seen her being competed at other shows, namely one of the first big show puissances I think Ellen did with her at the British Open in 2008 where she was bucking and skipping everywhere.

However, no amount of a difficult horse deserves punishing for something that they're obviously unsure about - I don't think Ladina B can be labelled a wimp for the heights she jumps in puissance! 

I believe it was genuine shock on the mare's part at being asked to go straight down the bank rather than being allowed a look first - it was obvious just watching her on the day even from where I was sitting that she was genuinely like 'Omg you seriously want me to go down that!'. For a horse that was doing it's first derby I think Ellen could have approached the edge of the bank a little more sympathetically. Some say she has no doubt practised it at home and whilst I have no qualms this is probably true, it's a totally different ball game when you're in a new place and with the atmosphere that always surrounds derby day!


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## JJ1987 (1 July 2009)

As a funny aside, if you watch Geoff Billington's round, right at the start as he comes in and Mike Tucker shushs with his commentary, you can hear me shout 'Go on Geoff' really loudly!! With all those with access to BBC iPlayer it is around 2 hours, 4 minutes and 20 seconds 
	
	
		
		
	


	













(Sad but in my opinion, still cool hehe!)


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## charlie55 (1 July 2009)

JJ1987 haha, was that you! I heard that when i watched it live and thought, wow that girl can shout! lol


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## jenbleep (1 July 2009)

Haha I heard you!


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## sandr (2 July 2009)

OK, have now watched it, and I'm my (very unprofessional) view, horse looks really uncomfortable in the mouth, and her 'head' wasn't in the SJ mood, and i think that's something they need to address before asking the mare to do any more.

I do think Ellen lost her temper a bit BUT, no more than i do when my horse naps, yes i have given him a good few wallops and kicks when he refuses to go forward, but I HAVE to win, or when we come to the same spot the next day, he'll do the same.

I don't see the 'brutality' that come across in this thread.


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## kerilli (2 July 2009)

Bossandbelle, i agree that she wasn't 'brutal', the problem is that she is now a role model for thousands of kids, and if they see her looking petulant and punishing the horse (even a little bit, which i agree it was) with her spurs, they will think that's acceptable.  it was unfair on the horse and unprofessional - and she is a professional now. also, she isn't a kid any more!
what you do with your horse is different in that respect, you aren't on national t.v. with loads of kids going "ooooh, Ellen did such-and-such to her horse, so i can do it to my pony".
she wasn't brutal, and i do think some people on this thread are carrying on as if she'd beaten the horse around the head or something (which, i stress, she didn't!), but spurs are never supposed to be used as punishment. i can understand her giving the mare a wallop and growling at her maybe, she was obv frustrated, and she wants the mare to go down the bank next year!


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## alex_mac30 (2 July 2009)

I have to say, I saw her get cross with one of her horse at Olympia a few years ago. It stopped, IMHO I think she turned it too tight. She then hit it a number of times in front of everyone. There were loads of small children there it was so unprofessional, the commentators tried to laugh it off but you could tell they were unimpressed. I wasnt really surprised to see her lose her temper just disappointed that she hasnt learn to control it in the last 3 years. I hate to think what she does at home.
M xx


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