# Nearly another terrible incident



## Penny Less (16 August 2014)

35 illegals found in a shipping container, and one dead.   
You cannot really comprehend how desperate people are to get into this country, the risks they take. 
It seems to be getting worse with all the fighting overseas.
I do feel sorry  for illegal immigrants, but also that we are now the only country of choice and seen as the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.  
At some stage I feel we will have civil unrest in this country due to the strain being put on public services etc, and the indigent population feeling they are being shortchanged.
There is no answer is there.


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## Alec Swan (16 August 2014)

Penny Less said:



			........

There is no answer is there.
		
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If your predictions as to civil unrest resulting in the failure of our care systems,  are right,  then there is an answer,  and it's this;

We pour a great deal in to our Border Security systems,  and EVERY single asylum seeker,  regardless of claim or apparent justification,  is sent back home,  without course to appeal,  and without question,  and with immediate effect.

The only way to prevent the attempts is to demonstrate the futility of the effort and cost.  All that I'm offering is an answer,  and not justification.

Alec.


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## LaMooch (16 August 2014)

Alec Swan said:



			If your predictions as to civil unrest resulting in the failure of our care systems,  are right,  then there is an answer,  and it's this;

We pour a great deal in to our Border Security systems,  and EVERY single asylum seeker,  regardless of claim or apparent justification,  is sent back home,  without course to appeal,  and without question,  and with immediate effect.

The only way to prevent the attempts is to demonstrate the futility of the effort and cost.  All that I'm offering is an answer,  and not justification.

Alec.
		
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Agree with this. Prevention is better then a cure


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## khalswitz (16 August 2014)

Alec Swan said:



			The only way to prevent the attempts is to demonstrate the futility of the effort and cost.  All that I'm offering is an answer,  and not justification.

Alec.
		
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If they face death in their own country, being sent back if they are caught won't put them off - they will keep trying. They are running from much worse than we throw at them, in some situations. It will always be worth the effort, on the slight chance they sneak past.

Personally, And in an ideal scenario, I'd love to see an Australian type immigration policy where we encourage skilled workers into our country and direct them to areas who need them most (like say Scotland or Wales or the far north of England), as I think that would actually help with our aging population problem rather than the free for all from Europe we have at the moment. 

However asylum seekers I do feel very sorry for, as often they are running away from something pretty horrible.


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## YorksG (16 August 2014)

khalswitz said:



			If they face death in their own country, being sent back if they are caught won't put them off - they will keep trying. They are running from much worse than we throw at them, in some situations. It will always be worth the effort, on the slight chance they sneak past.

Personally, And in an ideal scenario, I'd love to see an Australian type immigration policy where we encourage skilled workers into our country and direct them to areas who need them most (like say Scotland or Wales or the far north of England), as I think that would actually help with our aging population problem rather than the free for all from Europe we have at the moment. 

However asylum seekers I do feel very sorry for, as often they are running away from something pretty horrible.
		
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Wherever do you live? There is a shortage of employment in those areas, not a shortage of people to work there! Or perhaps you think there is a need formissionaries in those far flung places?


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## Penny Less (16 August 2014)

Totally agree Alec.
Also, probably going to get shot down in flames for this, a proportion of these asylum seekers then proceed to do criminal acts in this country.( also some people from EU countries )If they were so desperate you would think they would be model citizens.


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## AmandaMT (16 August 2014)

Alec Swan said:



			If your predictions as to civil unrest resulting in the failure of our care systems,  are right,  then there is an answer,  and it's this;

We pour a great deal in to our Border Security systems,  and EVERY single asylum seeker,  regardless of claim or apparent justification,  is sent back home,  without course to appeal,  and without question,  and with immediate effect.

The only way to prevent the attempts is to demonstrate the futility of the effort and cost.  All that I'm offering is an answer,  and not justification.

Alec.
		
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It is an answer but some might say an unfair one.


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## khalswitz (16 August 2014)

YorksG said:



			Wherever do you live? There is a shortage of employment in those areas, not a shortage of people to work there! Or perhaps you think there is a need formissionaries in those far flung places?
		
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Definitely not a shortage of employment for SKILLED workers. And I am in Scotland, so I am well aware of the irony of jobs going unfilled and the shortage of workers, yet the high levels of unemployment. But we would LOVE the levels of skilled immigrants that the south of England has. 

As it is, we spend half our time interviewing candidates from abroad or trying to bring up candidates from England (my experience in the healthcare industry and my father's in the oil industry too), but we really struggle to fill the roles.

I'll admit that I only assume the north of England and Wales face the same problems from looking at their social statistics, but it's not an unreasonable assumption based on my experience in Glasgow, Aberdeen and Inverness.

And we don't need missionaries, thanks, we need skilled workers.


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## Pearlsasinger (16 August 2014)

We are not the only country which attracts illegal immigrants.  There are boat loads of people trying to get into Italy, Spain and Portugal - to name 3 that I have seen TV pieces about recently.


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## Wundahorse (16 August 2014)

I understand France has a higher number of Arab immigrants than the UK but the difference is France imposes very strict rules and expect immigrants to embrace French culture.
I see a few illegals in my work, usually young men from places like Afghanistan. These asylum seekers only receive minimal monies and are not entitled to secondary health care under the NHS. They are often accommodated in dreadful B&B's and are quite socially isolated by their reluctance to integrate into mainstream society. There are success stories where young men continue their education and do well for themselves. For many it is a lonely existence, with no support networks and often little in the way of family, even in their home countries. Many of these souls are traumatized by their experiences. Not sure life in the UK is utopia for all immigrants.
Many of our care services are of course propped up by immigrant workers, many of who are highly skilled and have much to offer. Crime is invariably committed by our home grown underclass, thus the notion that crime is higher due to immigration is an anomaly.
 The UK is the fairest and most tolerant nation on earth and we should all be proud to be British.


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## mynutmeg (16 August 2014)

YorksG said:



			Wherever do you live? There is a shortage of employment in those areas, not a shortage of people to work there! Or perhaps you think there is a need formissionaries in those far flung places?
		
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It depends on the job you are trying to fill - I work within the NHS in North West England and our trust is still in special measures mainly because we simply can't recruit enough nursing and medical staff - we are constantly running short on staff from nurses, especially experienced nurses, and junior doctors through to consultants. It's simply not possible to get enough qualified staff to come up here and the trust is actively recruiting foreign nurses as we simply can't get enough British nurses to work in the area


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## LaMooch (17 August 2014)

allot the problem is that that the minority of British people that are unemployed do not want to work. Also allot of Eastern Europeans work very hard for little wage unlike the minority


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## Hippona (17 August 2014)

mynutmeg said:



			It depends on the job you are trying to fill - I work within the NHS in North West England and our trust is still in special measures mainly because we simply can't recruit enough nursing and medical staff - we are constantly running short on staff from nurses, especially experienced nurses, and junior doctors through to consultants. It's simply not possible to get enough qualified staff to come up here and the trust is actively recruiting foreign nurses as we simply can't get enough British nurses to work in the area
		
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Because experienced staff don't want to work for an employer in special measures....when you can get paid ridiculous amount of money to do locum work via an agency...


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## khalswitz (17 August 2014)

Hippona said:



			Because experienced staff don't want to work for an employer in special measures....when you can get paid ridiculous amount of money to do locum work via an agency...
		
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But we have the same issue in the oil industry here, and that's hardly special measures... The 50k new jobs we've been told are coming over the next two years in the oil industry will be hilarious as we struggle to fill the ones we've got! And that's not a low paid industry... 

And it's not just the engineers. We have to import private occupational health companies as we don't have the professionals here ourselves, we don't have enough accountants, lawyers, we struggle to find good business development professionals, mechanics, joiners/plumbers/electricians, and the countless professions required to run the floating towns we have on the rigs. People don't want to move here. 

This is part of what gets our goat in Scotland about the UK's fuss over immigration - we desperately need it, and lots more of it, and you guys just want to make it harder for us to find skilled workers!!


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## Penny Less (17 August 2014)

Pearlsasinger, I think most of these people are on their way to the UK ultimately
Khalswitz, I believe the majority of illegal immigrants are not skilled workers, and mainly don't speak English.


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## Pearlsasinger (17 August 2014)

Penny Less said:



			Pearlsasinger, I think most of these people are on their way to the UK ultimately
.
		
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And I'm afraid that you are wrong.


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## Penny Less (17 August 2014)

I have been known to be


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## khalswitz (17 August 2014)

Penny Less said:



			Pearlsasinger, I think most of these people are on their way to the UK ultimately
Khalswitz, I believe the majority of illegal immigrants are not skilled workers, and mainly don't speak English.
		
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I understand that. If they were skilled immigrants, they'd likely be legal!!! However my point was that I wish we would do more about actively encouraging immigration from skilled workers to fill the skills gap, rather than cracking down on immigration.

I do feel very sorry for illegal immigrants in many scenarios though.


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## Penny Less (17 August 2014)

We need something like Australia and NZ have, they have to need your skills to let you in I believe


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## LaMooch (17 August 2014)

Penny Less said:



			We need something like Australia and NZ have, they have to need your skills to let you in I believe
		
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you can only get citzenship there if a) your skilled and b) you have a certain amount of capital


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## bonny (17 August 2014)

LaMooch said:



			you can only get citzenship there if a) your skilled and b) you have a certain amount of capital
		
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That hardly helps people desperate enough to risk their lives to get into here ......


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