# antis will have a field day.....



## buzzles (2 December 2013)

https://www.facebook.com/justiceforisabelle?hc_location=timeline 
A terrible thing to happen but goes to show the power of social media. I wonder how often this happens? I've heard of it happening before. The brays are a drag pack but still gives people an excuse to call for hunting to be banned. I do hunt a bit with a drag pack, more because I feel it's good for the horses (teaches them to be brave, have manners etc) than I actually enjoy it that much, but would be devastated if this happened to my dog.  I think Ireland will be following England soon with the banning of hunting live animals, although it wouldn't have made a difference in this case.


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## Tiddlypom (2 December 2013)

What a horrible thing to happen. I presume that the hounds that took part will be destroyed as untrustworthy.


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## Doormouse (2 December 2013)

I do feel desperately sorry that poor little dog and her owners, it must have been devastating.

I have hunted all my life and know that incidents like this are very rare as hounds are generally good with domestic dogs. Clearly not in this instance sadly.

Pro or anti hunting, no one would wish this on a dog and it's family.


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## Clodagh (2 December 2013)

It is odd in your hgeading to say the antis will have a field day - so I assume you are pro hunting and think this was acceptable? Odd view.
I am pro - usually! - but this was a desperately sad event and the hunt should be bending over backwards to make this awful situation as good as it can be. All the suspect hounds involved should be shot.
Is there room in our crowded world for out of control packs of large dogs?


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## buzzles (2 December 2013)

I've only ever hunted with a drag pack and like I said it was only really for the benefit of the horses, I don't particularly enjoy it as much as other equestrian disciplines. That said I'm not anti-hunting, as I do think it has it's place in rural communities. It was a horrible incident (by a drag pack) and I'm not sure what the implications are. I was quite shocked though by some of the facebook comments- a lot of very ignorant and aggressive views, and a lot of Sab/Anti groups giving their support. I just think it was highlighted to a very widespread audience through social media where as before it might have gone unreported. I have heard of two other similar incidences and  was wondering if anyone else had- is this sort of thing more common than we realise? I was also noting that Ireland will probably follow after England by bringing in a ban. The Ward union incident where the pack followed a stag through a school playground ultimately led to the banning of stag hunting over here.


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## Clodagh (3 December 2013)

Well what was a drag pack doing hunting in someones garden? The (normal) hunt met here last week. Now I wouldn't want hounds in my garden and was appalled at tea afterwards to hear that someone was very put out because several hounds had got into a mans garden and he became very abusive - apparently the man was entirely in the wrong!


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## marianne1981 (3 December 2013)

How awful, poor dog and poor family. There was a post about this pretty recently- "meeting the hounds whilst dog walking". People use the "foxes attacking children" thing all the time... how long will it be before hounds attack a small child in a situation like this? I am sure that even this did happen, as unlikely as it would be, that you would still try and defend it and say it was an isolated incident. The very title of this post says alot doesnt it, as someone else mentioned, it is implied that only an anti would disapprove of a pet dog being mauled to death by the hunt and that all pro's will excuse it.


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## webble (3 December 2013)

How awful RIP little dog. I often wonder about things like this happening and how much control hunts really have over hounds


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## MiniMilton (3 December 2013)

As this is a drag pack I don't think the pro/anti argument has anything to do with it. I used to hunt with this pack and do recall once getting abuse hurled at us by people who couldn't quite understand that we never actually saw a fox. So some of the comments on the facebook page are pointless.

It is a tragic incident nonetheless and I know someone that was on that hunt so will try to find out more. Unfortunately if my memory serves me correctly, this has happened in the past with them too.


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## respectedpony driver (3 December 2013)

What a dreadful thing to happen poor soul and poor family.Hunts have very little control over the dogs,you as a responsible person should have full control over your dog at all times when out in public why should that not include hunts.It is wrong to chase one animal with another animal for fun.You should all be ashamed of yourselves


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## MiniMilton (3 December 2013)

respectedpony said:



			It is wrong to chase one animal with another animal for fun.You should all be ashamed of yourselves
		
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Just to clarify, they were chasing a smelly rag


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## buzzles (3 December 2013)

Maybe I worded the title wrong, what I meant was I was quite shocked by the comments from people who are against hunting which were very aggressive, irrational and ignorant and even if pro hunters tried express their sympathy and explain the facts they were shot down ie it was a drag pack and in fact traditionally a harrier pack so wouldn't have even been chasing foxes as most comments seemed to think and banning the hunting of live animals would not have prevented this from happening.  Of course the pros aren't going to be any less upset by the death of this poor dog, it was a horrible thing to happen but I've never really had experience of this radical mob mentality so was quite shocked by it. 
 I wasn't out on with them but apparently they were going along the road and two hounds broke away and I don't know whether the little dog was out, or they saw it in the garden but they chased it and one of them grabbed it around the middle and punctured it's lung. I think they separated them quickly and got hounds under control but obviously poor dog had no hope so sadly died.
 It absolutely should NOT  have happened  and the offending hounds should be dealt with. The brays are not popular in the area, it's a very built up area just south of Dublin and really not suitable for large packs of hounds. They don't let local people know when they're going to meet in the area and the route they're going, if you knew at least you could lock up your dogs. This isn't the first time this has happened, just this time it's been posted on facebook hence the backlash. I wonder is the way forward for drag packs to just get rid of the hounds, drags already follow a planned route and I've been on 'mock hunts' run by pony club and riding clubs and hunt canters with no hounds but across country and similar jumps etc and have actually enjoyed myself more than the few times I went drag hunting. I don't know what the repercussions are going to be but I think hunting in Ireland is going to have to change.


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## Clodagh (3 December 2013)

Fair enough, that sounds more balanced!
Hounds absolutely should not riot on a dog, whether they are hunting fox, sock or hare so I imagine this hunt is bad news all round. Arrogance does hunting more harm than any other thing, IMO.


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## MiniMilton (3 December 2013)

buzzles said:



			Maybe I worded the title wrong, what I meant was I was quite shocked by the comments from people who are against hunting which were very aggressive, irrational and ignorant and even if pro hunters tried express their sympathy and explain the facts they were shot down ie it was a drag pack and in fact traditionally a harrier pack so wouldn't have even been chasing foxes as most comments seemed to think and banning the hunting of live animals would not have prevented this from happening.  Of course the pros aren't going to be any less upset by the death of this poor dog, it was a horrible thing to happen but I've never really had experience of this radical mob mentality so was quite shocked by it. 
 I wasn't out on with them but apparently they were going along the road and two hounds broke away and I don't know whether the little dog was out, or they saw it in the garden but they chased it and one of them grabbed it around the middle and punctured it's lung. I think they separated them quickly and got hounds under control but obviously poor dog had no hope so sadly died.
 It absolutely should NOT  have happened  and the offending hounds should be dealt with. The brays are not popular in the area, it's a very built up area just south of Dublin and really not suitable for large packs of hounds. They don't let local people know when they're going to meet in the area and the route they're going, if you knew at least you could lock up your dogs. This isn't the first time this has happened, just this time it's been posted on facebook hence the backlash. I wonder is the way forward for drag packs to just get rid of the hounds, drags already follow a planned route and I've been on 'mock hunts' run by pony club and riding clubs and hunt canters with no hounds but across country and similar jumps etc and have actually enjoyed myself more than the few times I went drag hunting. I don't know what the repercussions are going to be but I think hunting in Ireland is going to have to change.
		
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I think one of the problems is the Brays have lost a huge amount of "hunting" ground to the ridiculous amounts of houses built during the boom. This is leading to the pack becoming unpopular. Some of the nicest hunts were along grounds that are now entirely housing estates and office parks. This is probably leading them to have to make do with going through more built up areas. I'm not excusing the death of this poor little dog. But it seems to appear to be a tragic accident. 

Because this incident occurred there are people calling for hunting to be banned and this is just silly. There is an enclosed dog run in a local park to me. There have been incidents where small dogs have been savaged by larger ones. People aren't requesting the ban of enclosed dog runs.

There should be stricter regulations, where the local residents should be thoroughly informed well in advance of a hunt coming through. And just for the record i'm not a pro hunt person, but neither am I an anti. I've never been on a foxhunt and never will. But it irritates me to see so many comments on the facebook slating them for hunting animals when that is never their intention.

But I guess on the flip side, as this has happened a few times before, I do wonder if these hounds are poorly trained and handled


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## Countryman (3 December 2013)

Absolutely unacceptable for hounds to riot on a dog. However, it should be remembered this is an incredibly rare event to occur (though perhaps more likely in this case, partly due to rural Ireland's nature-rather than houses being clustered in avoidable villages, they are often strung out across the countryside, making it easier for hounds to enter gardens) and also by the fact that it is a drag pack and so perhaps -though I do not know the details of this case-has rather less funds, and employs just a single member of staff, resulting in less contact with hounds and less control of the pack.


However, I would point out to all that it is extremely rare for an incident such as this to occur; when they do, it is frequently widely reported across local, national, mainstream and social media, advertised by anti organisations such as the LACS and even featured in films about hunting made by the antis. The fact that we so rarely hear of these incidents, despite the fact that there are over 500 packs of hounds in Britain and Ireland, going out 3 days a week hunting across the countryside, bears testament to the unlikelihood of this occurring. 

Indeed, a pack foxhound is probably the safest dog you could hope for. I would much rather have a foxhound from a registered pack in my garden or around a child than any other type of dog, because frankly they are the safest kind. When you consider that every year in the UK there are tens of millions of incidents where dogs bite other dogs, and indeed hundreds of thousands of incidents when dogs bite people, it is a testament to the foxhounds excellent temperament, training, biddability and friendliness that it is extremely rare for any of these incidents to involve foxhounds. 
This is a deliberate, bred-for feature; for hundreds of years, these hounds have been bred to be biddable, well trained and not to riot on anything but their quarry species. Hounds that bite humans or go for other dogs would not have been kept, let alone bred from.


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## Hairy Old Cob (3 December 2013)

respectedpony said:



			What a dreadful thing to happen poor soul and poor family.Hunts have very little control over the dogs,you as a responsible person should have full control over your dog at all times when out in public why should that not include hunts.It is wrong to chase one animal with another animal for fun.You should all be ashamed of yourselves
		
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Another foal me wonders

Do you have Dogs have you always been in full control of them? I have No doubt the Hunt are absolutely mortified about what has happened, and will be all they are doing to make a terrible situation better! Chasing one animal by another is Nature


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## buzzles (3 December 2013)

minimilton- I think you're right, they're just running out of land and with houses dotted all over the place they are coming into contact with the public more.  There are a lot of changes in the Brays this year with new huntsmen and whips so maybe that's led to problems with the hounds. I think their ongoing animosity with the East Wicklow is not helping their case either, there's not really enough land for the two hunts and that's part of the reason the meets/routes aren't advertised as such. You're right, there are way more incidents of pet dogs fighting but I think this sort of tragic accident does give those opposed to hunting more fuel so to speak.  However hounds, as large hunting dogs who are in a pack need to be a lot more disciplined, obedient and under control than your average pet dog and to be fair as countryman said, this hopefully does seem to an isolated incident in relation to the number of hunts who hunt every week and most hounds are very well trained and under control.  I would imagine with the use of social media like facebook and forums that when it does happen there's no hiding it!


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## marianne1981 (3 December 2013)

These sorts of incidences are certainly on the up, as others have said, probably to do with social media, it is not uncommon to hear unpleasant stories of pet cats being mauled to death by hounds too. It's more common than the hunts would have you know.


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## Countryman (3 December 2013)

marianne1981 said:



			These sorts of incidences are certainly on the up, as others have said, probably to do with social media, it is not uncommon to hear unpleasant stories of pet cats being mauled to death by hounds too. It's more common than the hunts would have you know.
		
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Marianne, I don't particularly believe we are hearing more of these stories nowadays than we did in the past. Supposing you were true though, it would surely be due to the Hunting Ban? Hounds bred to hunt a live quarry will surely get frustrated when they are required to hunt a trail scent and with no reward, never finding any animal at the end of it, never seeing anything. It must be very confusing for hounds at the moment.


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## Clodagh (3 December 2013)

We had the minkhounds here in the summer and a lady up in the village a couple of miles from where they were drawing lost her cat. Very sad, I agree. She told me the hounds had killed her cat so I was appalled and asked if she had been in touch with the masters, and offered their phone number. Turns out the cat had been run over, and not even by a hunt follower, and it was nowhere near where hounds were. So, unless they had a couple of hounds who had learned to drive I can't see the hunt could be blamed for that incident.
I suppose I am agreeing that events like any pet animal being killed is 100% unacceptable but also people like to blame the hunt for everything.


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## webble (3 December 2013)

With an ordinary dog off lead and out of control in a public place there are all sorts of legal repercussions. Is it the same with hounds?


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## Starbucks (4 December 2013)

That is very sad and I would be furious / devastated if it was my dog, but I think it is just one of those things that unfortunately happen in this big bad world!  How many little dogs get killed by other pet dogs just out on walks / in the park etc.? I think generally hounds behave fantastically but if you have 30 dogs running around loose there is going to be the odd incident even if rare.


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## marianne1981 (4 December 2013)

Unlikely I know, but has anyone thought about the possibility that this could happen to a small child? What if when the hounds had ran riot, there had been a very young child just about walking age in the garden with the little dog, if this was ever to happen heaven forbid, would you still say it was an isolated incident and that things like that are bound to happen? How far does it go (just interested to hear!)


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## marianne1981 (4 December 2013)

Also, only last week a pet alpaca was attacked and killed by hounds-these are the kinds of things never published as H&H news. Why do the majority (I am not saying all) just blindly follow what your family has taught you about hunting, you will defend it til the end but you have simply got to try and see this from another perspective. Question what you are taught is right! How many of you would still support it blindly if Isabelle had been your dog, or cat, or horse mauled to death? What a rotten way to go.


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## Starbucks (4 December 2013)

Yes but it never ever has been a small child has it. I don't know why people say that. Different dogs are bread to kill different animals it doesn't mean they are going to savage children. 

The point is dogs attack other dogs, small animals and livestock all the time. I don't hear anyone proposing to ban walking your dog incase it fights with another dog, kills a cat or bites a kid.

Let's ban all hunting with dogs then (including blood hounds, trail and drag hunts) shoot all the hounds. Would that be better?


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## Countryman (4 December 2013)

Starbucks said:



			Yes but it never ever has been a small child has it. I don't know why people say that. Different dogs are bread to kill different animals it doesn't mean they are going to savage children. 

The point is dogs attack other dogs, small animals and livestock all the time. I don't hear anyone proposing to ban walking your dog incase it fights with another dog, kills a cat or bites a kid.

Let's ban all hunting with dogs then (including blood hounds, trail and drag hunts) shoot all the hounds. Would that be better?
		
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Marianne - any proof, at all to back up the accusation you are making about hounds and an Alpaca last week? I somehow doubt such an event occurred a week ago...

Starbucks - it appears Marianne will not be happy until all dogs have been put down-after all, your average dog is much more likely to attack an alpaca/another dog/bite a person than a hound...


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## marianne1981 (5 December 2013)

It was on the Sheffield Forum, last week, I thought what a horrible thing to happen but didnt write on here about it, but when I heard it had happened again this time to a dog I just had to join this discussion. I do not wish all dogs to be put down-thats like saying, if one person commits murder then all of us should be killed (just a silly comparison!) To Starbucks- the huntsman of this hunt was very obviously out of control of his hounds, I know this is not the case with most hunts, but this sort of thing does give you ALL a very bad name and doesnt help your cause at all. In my opinion, it is only a matter of time before this happens to a child in the wrong place at the wrong time in a similar situation and while on one hand god forbid it, on the other it would probably ban hunting with hounds in this country for good. You say different dogs are bred to kill different animals, then why do hounds go for cats and other dogs in this case (as they did pre-ban)?


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## ester (5 December 2013)

webble said:



			With an ordinary dog off lead and out of control in a public place there are all sorts of legal repercussions. Is it the same with hounds?
		
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I don't think the police are usually that interested unless injury to a person is involved??

previous alpacas... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hereford-worcester-15059809


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## MiniMilton (5 December 2013)

Marianne1981 I disagree. I have a German shepherd that happily kills and eats rabbits and hares that she catches. She has also attacked a small dog. She would probably kill a strange cat it they didn't claw her face first. Yet she is family pet that plays gently with small children. She is able to tell the difference between small animals and humans, no matter how small they are. I'm not pro-hunting but I don't see hounds attaching a dog as a stepping stone to hounds attacking a child. Its a tragic event to occur but large dogs attack small dogs and other small animals all the time.


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## Clodagh (5 December 2013)

I think, as a fence sitter about hunting, the usual is happening here - the pros will not even consider there is anything wrong with up to 30 + large 'dogs' running out of control in a pack. Come on peeps, be fair to the antis, they do have a brain!!
Also, the usual 'lets shoot all the hounds argument' well about 99.9% of hounds are shot anyway, and as relatively young animals so that has never washed as a defence. If a huntsman cannot control his hounds, and they kill another animal other than the quarry species, they should never have the opportunity to do it again. In the old days, when I hunted, if hounds rioted on deer they were beaten the first time and shot or drafted the second. In sheep country I imagine that is even more important. It is WRONG for them to not follow orders.
Last season the hunt came through our farmyard while cubbing. I had let my chickens out and the young hounds started chasing them. It was only because I was there next to them I stopped them killing my hens. That was wrong. My hens are my pets and I would have been upset. If they had killed my dog I would have been devastated and probably never get over it.

Thats not aimed at you, MB, I agree it is unlikely beyond belief that a hound would kill a child. If a small child was in the garden with the dog though would they ever recover from seeing it ripped to pieces?


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## dunkley (5 December 2013)

I hunted with the Brays several years ago, and even then, at one point we were dodging washing lines in the outer suburbs   Very sad, poor little dog, and the family must be devastated, as, I should think, are the hunt staff.


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## webble (5 December 2013)

How do the hunt go on with regards to crossing land? For example if they have permission to cross one farmers fields but not another which is adjoining how does that work?


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## Tiddlypom (5 December 2013)

Hounds killed a sheep round here a few years ago. I heard this recently second hand but from someone who hunts regularly with that pack.

I believe that all the hounds that were out that day were shot on their return to the kennels.

The farmer was a pro hunt chap and accepted an apology and compensation for the loss of the sheep. I doubt that it made the press, I certainly hadn't heard of the incident (I don't hunt).

I very much doubt that hounds would savage a child but what would happen if a child tried to pick up a pet that was being savaged?


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## ester (5 December 2013)

webble said:



			How do the hunt go on with regards to crossing land? For example if they have permission to cross one farmers fields but not another which is adjoining how does that work?
		
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They stop hounds, IME by using the field to create a barrier of horses to stop hounds following a trail in the direction they don't want them to go (if for instance they found a real trail not the one they are suppose to be following).


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## Starbucks (5 December 2013)

marianne1981 said:



			It was on the Sheffield Forum, last week, I thought what a horrible thing to happen but didnt write on here about it, but when I heard it had happened again this time to a dog I just had to join this discussion. I do not wish all dogs to be put down-thats like saying, if one person commits murder then all of us should be killed (just a silly comparison!) To Starbucks- the huntsman of this hunt was very obviously out of control of his hounds, I know this is not the case with most hunts, but this sort of thing does give you ALL a very bad name and doesnt help your cause at all. In my opinion, it is only a matter of time before this happens to a child in the wrong place at the wrong time in a similar situation and while on one hand god forbid it, on the other it would probably ban hunting with hounds in this country for good. You say different dogs are bred to kill different animals, then why do hounds go for cats and other dogs in this case (as they did pre-ban)?
		
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So basically, you'd quite like hounds to kill a kid so they would bad hunting??  Nice! :-/

Cats and small dogs aren't a million miles away from a fox. a lot closer than a child anyway!  My little terrier is quite keen with other dogs and mega keen with small furry animals but no way would he ever harm a person!!  It just doesn't work like that.  Do you have dogs yourself?

I'm getting irritated by the post I hate it when people try and make out hounds are evil it makes me sad.


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## marianne1981 (5 December 2013)

Hounds are not evil! I never once said that. How would you feel if the hounds tore your terrier to pieces though-if your dog had been there that day it is likely to have happened! And of course I'd not "quite like" hounds to kill a child. What I meant was, if, and in my opinion "when" a child gets caught in the fray of something like this, I would not like to think of the consequences,  and as for would I like to see all hounds shot... as someone else said, they all get shot pretty young anyway so whats your point? I would respect pro's more if they would accept that what has happened is wrong, think about why it happened and what could be learnt from it. And if it happens once a formal warning from the MFHA, again and be struck off. That is how it should work, and how it would work in most other organisations. And for your information, I do not currently own a dog, but in the past have owned ex racing rescue greyhounds.


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## Starbucks (6 December 2013)

do you think your greyhounds might have killed a child?  They are bread to hunt small animals in the same way but I doubt anyone would say that an ex-racing greyhound might just accidently munch a small child to death.  of course they wouldn't!  Just like a fox hound wouldn't.  They might, however, eat a small dog.

Like I said I would be furious if hounds came into my garden and killed my dog!  Of course it is wrong I think that goes without saying. What I am saying is this one incident shouldn't condemn all hunts, all hounds.  I hunt with a top pack with an extremely professional huntsman with very obedient hounds.  Why should our hounds / hunt suffer just because another hunt had a balls up? I would imagine many, many more small dogs have met their maker from the jaws of a greyhound than a foxhound. Should we just shoot all greyhounds too???

Of course not!!   

TBH though I don't think it would happen to my little terrier, he's a bold as brass and I think he'd just join in and they wouldn't notice.  I hate it when people are all precious with their dogs, keep them on the lead, go down the "my poor dog keeps getting attacked" route! Just let them get on with it and they learn to socialise.

not saying this was the case in this situation.


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## marianne1981 (6 December 2013)

If the greyhounds I had were in a large pack (which doesnt happen), out of control, however nice they were individually, no I would not like my young boys to be there with a little dog/cat/alpaca etc. Not because I didnt trust that one dog alone, but because I would not like to guess what MAY happen in a pack instinct and in the fray. These hounds were a danger, and whilst you may be able to "hunt with a top pack" as you say, these other packs are still part of your "organisation" and are dragging your cause down even lower than it already is.


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## Countryman (6 December 2013)

marianne1981 said:



			Hounds are not evil! I never once said that. How would you feel if the hounds tore your terrier to pieces though-if your dog had been there that day it is likely to have happened!
		
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Marianne- you're showing yourself up now. What utter rubbish you suggest - that if her terrier was present it is likely it would have been killed!There are 42,000 hunting days in the UK and Ireland every year, and on each day hounds from each pack come into contact with dozens of dogs, and just the odd incident happens each year or so. Therefore the chance is just one in several hundred thousand that a terrier at the scene of a hunt would be killed - highly unlikely!


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## MadBlackLab (6 December 2013)

Even though what happened is very sad and inexcusable people got to remember hounds are hunting dogs and like any dog they hunt. This poor dog had no chance against 20 hounds but at the end if the day a dog will what a dog is trained to do


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## BethanT (7 December 2013)

As sad as this incident is I dont think anyone could sit here and say it is entirely the hounds fault. Dogs attack other dogs and cats, even killing them at times. Does that mean all dogs should be shot? No, because once in a while you will get an animal with a few crossed wires. 

I am sure the hunt dealt with it appropriately, as someone has previously said, the two hounds involved where disposed of.


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## KidnapMoss (9 December 2013)

webble said:



			How do the hunt go on with regards to crossing land? For example if they have permission to cross one farmers fields but not another which is adjoining how does that work?
		
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Oh it doesn't stop them round here 

We had hounds rioting round our pony paddocks on Saturday, i mean, right in them, not bordering them, when we were out but luckily a neighbour and friend sorted our 4 stressed horses who were all turned out. I am still livid about it and have let the hunt know via email. Although we farm, our paddocks are directly behind our house, and COMPLETLY separate to the farm. I can only assume they were illegally hunting since we have an old dog fox who happily wanders through the ponies field at dusk  if they had killed our puppy I would have been devastated and would probably use social media as well.


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## Tiddlypom (9 December 2013)

webble said:



			How do the hunt go on with regards to crossing land? For example if they have permission to cross one farmers fields but not another which is adjoining how does that work?
		
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Funny that you should ask this. Of course, sometimes even very pro hunt farmers ask that the hunt avoid certain fields at certain times, and a clued up mastership will respect that.

Last year, a local hunt ignored that request on a particular farmers land and trespassed onto areas that they were specifically asked to avoid. The farmer came out and started having a bit of a slanging match with the hunt followers whilst his wife, a local equine vet, hid in a stable so that none of the field (and potentially clients) noticed her! (I heard this tale from one of her colleagues).

Many hunts are very well run and would never dream of venturing where they are not welcomed. Unfortunately, there are a few who are less respectful, and they do hunting a great disservice.


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## marianne1981 (10 December 2013)

Countryman I had seen that this incident was not the first time this happened with this hunt- I am just saying, could you really, truly say that you would be entirely comfortable with having your own small dogs around this particular hunt given it's track record?


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## unbalanced (27 December 2013)

Someone was saying about drafting a hound - what does that mean, please?


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## Countryman (27 December 2013)

Drafting a hound means sending it to another pack. For instance, pre ban, if a pack of foxhounds found one hound was flawed in that he would only hunt red deer, never foxes, he could be drafted to a staghound pack. Likewise, a hound from Surrey whose only fault was it loved to riot on muntjac deer, could be drafted to a pack in Yorkshire where they have no muntjac.


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## unbalanced (27 December 2013)

Countryman said:



			Drafting a hound means sending it to another pack. For instance, pre ban, if a pack of foxhounds found one hound was flawed in that he would only hunt red deer, never foxes, he could be drafted to a staghound pack. Likewise, a hound from Surrey whose only fault was it loved to riot on muntjac deer, could be drafted to a pack in Yorkshire where they have no muntjac.
		
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Thank you.


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## Crosshill Pacers (27 December 2013)

respectedpony said:



			Hunts have very little control over the dogs
		
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I didn't really want to get involved but I took umbrage with this statement - I hunt regularly with my local pack and the reality couldn't be further from your comment. We cross a lot of farmland and open hill grazed by hill sheep; our hounds not only come to the call of the horn and/or the huntsman, they also come to the call of any number of the ridden followers (we are a small hunt and a lot of us know the hounds by name). Obedience is the most important lesson the hounds must learn.

As an example yesterday, as we rode through the town where the meet was held we came across two small dogs tied to a post while their owner was in the shop. Only one hound hung back for a sniff, and once the name was called the hound carried on along with the rest.

If a hound kills a sheep, or in this instance another dog, it should be shot. But it's not a common occurrence like some people like to assume. Hounds are placid dogs, they are great with children and the hounds I have puppy-walked have always been great with other dogs (my current puppy lives with our sheepdog).


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## Crugeran Celt (27 December 2013)

I am surprised some say how the dogs are difficult to control as I am always impressed how obedient the hounds are. I have never hunted, not because I am anti hunting I am just not brave enough to do it. I do however frequently go to see the hunt and the dogs seem to be well under control at all times.


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## Girlracer (27 December 2013)

How absolutely tragic, incredibly sad. 

But as most have said an incredibly rare occurrence. Those of you saying that the hounds are regularly 'out of control' have clearly never had anything to do with hunting, as that is as far from the truth as possible. In this instance of course the select few involved were, and that's why they were (presumably) destroyed following the incident. It is extremely rare, and hounds generally are extremely friendly and good with domestic dogs, children, horses etc etc.


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## Tern (27 December 2013)

MiniBlitzen said:



			She has also attacked a small dog.
		
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That's not something to be proud of.

Well i'm no where near Anti-Hunt, I'm going hunting in 2014  Although this is unacceptable the hound(s) will have been put to sleep, All saying they are not under control I can assure you that at my hunt if the master calls Tuesday - Tuesday will come same with Willow, and Sundae. Any hound will come to call of the horn and name - If it doesn't then it should not be out hunting on that day.


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