# Hartpury Horse Trials Horse Hit By a Car



## jump_racing (10 August 2013)

Does any body know what happened/ how it happened ?  Horse and rider are ok  I think.


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## Cedars (10 August 2013)

Post about it on e venting. Think more car hit by horse and rider! Tom Rowland riding. Both walked away apparently, but.....


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## snooples (10 August 2013)

Read this too on e-venting, car driving on course! I read it as they galloped into the car but Im probably wrong!


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## teapot (10 August 2013)

Cedars said:



			Post about it on e venting. Think more car hit by horse and rider! Tom Rowland riding. Both walked away apparently, but.....
		
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A moving car shouldn't be that close to a moving horse & rider on a xc course so not sure you can imply it was the rider's fault... 

Plus for those who have seen his tweets since (ie from the horse's mouth if you excuse the pun) well it makes for interesting reading! They're bruised but ok thankfully.


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## Cedars (10 August 2013)

Where exactly did I suggest it was his fault?!

The total opposite in fact. Don't put words in my mouth!


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## teapot (10 August 2013)

The fact that you wrote 'more car hit by horse and rider' which _could_ be read as though it was one person's fault over another. On the other hand, I can see why you wrote if it's in reference to the thread title!

Sorry for offending but just the tone came across differently


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## Cedars (10 August 2013)

Yes of course it was. 

Event director driving according to Tom. Not looking.


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## Merlotmonster (11 August 2013)

I was there today and saw this. Car went to cross the course just as the horse was galloping past. It did stop but not in time and the horse hit the wing and wing mirror throwing the rider off! Thankfully both were ok. A woman then went hysterical and was shouting and ( so I overheard over the event radio) hit her!!  The driver was very upset.


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## FfionWinnie (11 August 2013)

The hysterical woman hit the driver?!


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## Merlotmonster (11 August 2013)

Yes, think it may have been his mother.. It was a tad of an over reaction in my mind, as Both were on their feet and it was clearly an accident, but I guess people act differently when in shock. Horrible for all concerned and just glad all ok.


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## miss_c (11 August 2013)

I was there yesterday and completely missed that!! Glad all are ok but gutted for the rider.


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## Lolo (11 August 2013)

Merlotmonster said:



			Yes, think it may have been his mother.. It was a tad of an over reaction in my mind, as Both were on their feet and it was clearly an accident, but I guess people act differently when in shock. Horrible for all concerned and just glad all ok.
		
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To be fair, her son on a horse had just hit a car hard enough to necessitate medical care. When they were travelling at speed, had total right of way and shouldn't have needed to be thinking "I wonder if there are any careless drivers on this XC course?". If I were the lady driving the car, I'd be fairly grateful the mother stopped at just that.

Hope both horse and rider are alright today. What a horrible incident.


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## Merlotmonster (11 August 2013)

Of course what happened wasnt right, however it didn't warrant an assault in my mind!! But each to their own.


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## Kiribati_uk (11 August 2013)

Lolo said:



			To be fair, her son on a horse had just hit a car hard enough to necessitate medical care. When they were travelling at speed, had total right of way and shouldn't have needed to be thinking "I wonder if there are any careless drivers on this XC course?". If I were the lady driving the car, I'd be fairly grateful the mother stopped at just that.

Hope both horse and rider are alright today. What a horrible incident.
		
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Totally agree it was an accident but it should never of been allowed to happen, surely crossing points are manned with stewards, so they should close crossing when horse coming?? ......As for Toms mom hitting driver that I would of done the same, to watch your son and horse get hit by a car must be awful, eventing is tough enough without crap like this happening. Also glad girl who got airlifted out in the 1star was discharged form hospital last night.


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## Cedars (11 August 2013)

It is nothing short of a miracle that the horse didn't break something. I can't even imagine how scary that must have been for Tom. 

I agree though, assault never justified. Would she have hit a fence judge if they'd had a nasty fall at a tricky fence? You'd hope not but..! 

I would imagine there will be legal implications? So this won't be the end of the story.


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## MistletoeMegan (11 August 2013)

Whilst I absolutely don't agree with violence, I can absolutely understand the level of emotion felt by the woman. I was thinking about this last night, and if that had been my horse & rider that had been hit, after the initial relief that they were alright I'd be absolutely fuming too and would want someone's head on a plate (although I'd be satisfied with this only being in a metaphorical sense  ).

This incident could easily have had a very different outcome and it needs reviewing to stop it from ever happening again (I still can't quite believe it happened in the first place!). If the suggested identity of the driver is correct then I understand _why_ said person needed to cross the course and that may also explain if there was any element of rushing. But I don't understand how you get from that to being able to cross the course right in front of a horse and not see a horse galloping towards the car. 

Eventers have quite enough risks to try to mitigate themselves without having something like this too. Hopefully this incident is reviewed in sufficient detail and with the appropriate seriousness given how easily it could have resulted in serious injury or worse. I don't doubt that the driver is feeling horrendous, but something needs to be done to ensure that this is only ever a one-off incident.


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## MistletoeMegan (11 August 2013)

Cedars said:



			I agree though, assault never justified. Would she have hit a fence judge if they'd had a nasty fall at a tricky fence? You'd hope not but..!
		
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That's not the same (or even similar) situation and you know it.


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## Cedars (11 August 2013)

I don't think it's a massive leap - I've been at (much much much!) smaller events where particular fences are causing chaos for whatever reason, and when you stand in the lorry park or on the course you hear all sorts of obscenities and threats of complaining and making sure people know what's what, when their horse/rider goes A over T and the person deems it not to be their responsibility. 

I agree though, totally different in that the guilt in the situation is completely and entirely hers - and as I think I said above, I would be in extremely serious discussions this morning. I just don't understand how it could even happen. 

I didn't attend but those who did said there wasn't all too much whistle blowing going on - stewarding 'not fantastic' as it was put in a text - however whistles wouldn't have affected a car anyway. 

I hope the horse is still as fine this morning as it seemed yesterday. And Tom, obviously!


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## ester (11 August 2013)

I think it's a huge leap, the fence judge is not in charge of the fence or what it does. The driver of a car very much is!


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## MistletoeMegan (11 August 2013)

ester said:



			I think it's a huge leap, the fence judge is not in charge of the fence or what it does. The driver of a car very much is!
		
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Absolutely this. I'm a struggling to comprehend how you don't see the clear and distinct difference Cedars, and why you think it's acceptable to suggest it.


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## Firewell (11 August 2013)

It sounds to me like a horrid accident, no one would have meant it to happen. Event director was probably flying around like a headless chicken trying to make sure everything was running smoothly for the competitiors and helpers and everyone else. Rider was simply doing what they had gone there to do. Yes event director shouldn't have been careless, no the mum probably shouldn't have tried to hit her but no one was hurt.
I can see it from all sides, rider really upset that himself and his horse could have been hurt, mum who saw her son potentially about to be seriously hurt, event director horrified that she had just hit a horse. It's happened now it's time to move on and not let it happen again.


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## Caledonia (11 August 2013)

This cannot just be 'moved on' from - it's astounding that neither the horse nor rider was killed. However harassed she was, driving across the course when the horses are running without looking is unbelievable. There is a dent in the landrover as if it had hit a wall, apparently. How do you think the horse is feeling now?

I believe there is to be a full enquiry and rightly so. She has double responsibility, as ensuring crossing are manned is presumably within her remit as event director.


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## TableDancer (11 August 2013)

It was not, in fact, the Event Director/Organiser, who is Philip Cheetham. TR has admitted his mistake in terms of identifying the individual involved. It was a "very high level" BE official - female, you don't need a degree to work out who. And in fairness, it is not that she did not look, it is that she mistakenly looked the wrong way. It is absolutely right that an enquiry should be held as this is an accident hich should never have happened. I'm sure the driver, who is clearly in the wrong, feels absolutely terrible. Nonetheless, it was obviously a terrible mistake and personally I feel we should not be too quick to judge - those who have never, ever made a genuine error which could have ended in tragedy may beg to differ, but I suspect there arn't too many of those people if truth be told.

It seems to me that, rather than vilifying an individual who clearly never intended harm, we should be looking at the bigger picture to ensure it can't happen again, as human beings are just that and will always make mistakes from time to time. There need to be failsafe mechanisms in place - why wasn't the crossing manned with a steward and if it was, why didn't they stop the vehicle? After all, if it had been a child on foot, the consequences could have been even worse...


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## dingle12 (11 August 2013)

Anyone know what the massive hold was at the start of the 1*?


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## shortstuff99 (11 August 2013)

A rotational fall, believe the rider is at Frenchay's hospital.


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## dingle12 (11 August 2013)

Hope they are ok, do u know who and is the horse ok?


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## Freddie19 (11 August 2013)

Not necessarily a crossing point, and can I say that it has happened before...both in Ireland and Great Britain.  Glad that horse and rider are fine.  I am sure person driving vehicle will be having nightmares for some time to come.


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## oldvic (11 August 2013)

It was the event director. Philip was the organiser.
As Tabledancer says, we are all human and I am sure that it is the last thing that she wanted to happen. That area of the course is very congested with 2 major crossing points, the 1st water and another influential fence. The crossing was approached round a bend from the water and the area was busy so crossing point stewards should have been essential. When you run too many horses in one day, your human resources are stretched to the limit and they have too long a day. Added to that, the hour hold at 8.30 a.m. increased the pressure that everyone was under and, with additional holds due to broken pins, the horses were having to be started too quickly for comfort. 90 sec intervals maximum for 2 and 3* is too intense especially over a prolonged period - in excess of 7 hours. Pippa was possibly a victim of this as the fence judge at the 2nd water didn't have time to replace the red flag and her horse jumped around the edge of the fence. The flag could have helped to keep him in. She was 40 secs behind the previous horse.
Tom's incident must be prevented in future. Maybe the FEI will have to restrict the number of runners in one day to allow time for things to be done properly.


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## oldvic (11 August 2013)

shortstuff99 said:



			A rotational fall, believe the rider is at Frenchay's hospital.
		
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It was the 1st horse to go. She was discharged last night. The 2nd rider also fell!


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## TableDancer (11 August 2013)

oldvic said:



			It was the event director. Philip was the organiser.
As Tabledancer says, we are all human and I am sure that it is the last thing that she wanted to happen. That area of the course is very congested with 2 major crossing points, the 1st water and another influential fence. The crossing was approached round a bend from the water and the area was busy so crossing point stewards should have been essential. When 
Tom's incident must be prevented in future. Maybe the FEI will have to restrict the number of runners in one day to allow time for things to be done properly.
		
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Thank you for clarifying, I'm afraid I've been given duff information which I should have checked.

I agree re starters it sounds like a nightmare for XC officials - I wondered, do you know why they ran the 3* XC yesterday rather than leaving it till Sunday like they used to? Is it the first year they have done it this way?


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## oldvic (11 August 2013)

I think they did it last year but I can't really remember. I have no idea why they changed but I guess it is cheaper and easier to get the manpower for 1 day. The extra vets, medics, radios, technical staff, etc all cost. Also the riders that are just in the 3* are able to be there for a day less. They needed 3.5 hrs to show jump so would be pushed to get through on Sunday a.m. before the 1* and 2* jumping and both their dressage days were fairly full.


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## Roasted Chestnuts (11 August 2013)

Great shame for both horse rider and the person driving the car. Im sure all involved were shocked and so glad that horse and rider walked away. 

However the mother shouldnt have hit the driver, had that been me she would have been on her @rse on the grass quicker than she could say ouch in self defence. Enquiry should be held as to how a car managed to get onto the course at that time and measure put in place to stop it happening again.

Hope the two early fallers are ok.


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## TarrSteps (11 August 2013)

This whole incident does point of the double edged sword of social media, too.  While it means word gets out about these incidents and makes it easier to take a good hard look at the hows and whys, it also means information gets disseminated to quickly there is no time to fact check.  I did originally hear TR's mother hit the driver and then heard that she's shoved her as part of a heated conversation.  I don't know which story, if either, is true and neither does anyone else unless there were standing there and saw the whole thing.  To speculate on how people should or should not have behaved and judge them accordingly when we're not even sure what exactly happened seems a bit unfair.

It also points up the problem that maybe heroic efforts to maximise numbers, keep costs down and deal with the problem of lack of volunteers can have real repercussions. Everyone wants events to be cheap, provide lots of opportunities to compete, run in the minimum amount of time, and not necessitate any inconvenience to themselves.  But something always gives when you pack 'em in too hard and fast.


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## humblepie (11 August 2013)

Went to Hartpury for the first time yesterday and we felt that it was a really nice event with a good atmosphere for spectating.  There was quite a bit of looking out for yourself when walking round particularly through the woods but everyone was behaving very well and watching out for horses.


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## LEC (11 August 2013)

Spectators were not supposed to walk through the woods there was a track round the outside. It should have been better signposted. The crossing guards were non existent and people were sat in random places. With everything running so quickly it was tough to know where to cross and not be in the way. It is an event which does pay attention to feedback so i am sure will come out sharper next year.


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## Double_choc_lab (11 August 2013)

As a mother if someone had driven into my offspring and horse I think in the heat of the moment I may have done likewise. She may not have known at that point that they were both uninjured. I would also ask for my horse to be x rayed and scanned at their expense this was due to someone's negligence. We were over 200 yrds away and heard the thud - it was that loud


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## Prince33Sp4rkle (11 August 2013)

Double_choc_lab said:



			As a mother if someone had driven into my offspring and horse I think in the heat of the moment I may have done likewise. She may not have known at that point that they were both uninjured. I would also ask for my horse to be x rayed and scanned at their expense this was due to someone's negligence. We were over 200 yrds away and heard the thud - it was that loud
		
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Ditto, if someone drove in to NMT and fig they would be lucky if I left their head on their shoulders.....how on earth can this been allowed to happen?! Makes me feel ill, poor rider, poor horse.


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## {97702} (11 August 2013)

LEC said:



			Spectators were not supposed to walk through the woods there was a track round the outside. It should have been better signposted. The crossing guards were non existent and people were sat in random places. With everything running so quickly it was tough to know where to cross and not be in the way. It is an event which does pay attention to feedback so i am sure will come out sharper next year.
		
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As a spectator I was clearly told by the crossing point steward at the entrance to the woods that it was OK to walk through and I should keep to the right - I was astonished!


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## blackhor2e (11 August 2013)

It is so sad for this kind of thing to happen at BE, I feel for all those involved and I do hope the horse and rider are ok as reported. It's shocking but by the sounds of it was waiting to happen?


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## stencilface (11 August 2013)

I don't know hartpury, but I did have a reasonable near miss just walking when I was at Aston. When there are so many courses, different routes on different days and so many options it is hard to be always on the right side of the string, even if you are very vigilant. Luckily, I really was far out of the way really, but a horse suddenly appearing over a hedge in a hedge line was a surprise!


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## ajn1610 (11 August 2013)

TarrSteps said:



			This whole incident does point of the double edged sword of social media, too.  While it means word gets out about these incidents and makes it easier to take a good hard look at the hows and whys, it also means information gets disseminated to quickly there is no time to fact check.  I did originally hear TR's mother hit the driver and then heard that she's shoved her as part of a heated conversation.  I don't know which story, if either, is true and neither does anyone else unless there were standing there and saw the whole thing.  To speculate on how people should or should not have behaved and judge them accordingly when we're not even sure what exactly happened seems a bit unfair.

It also points up the problem that maybe heroic efforts to maximise numbers, keep costs down and deal with the problem of lack of volunteers can have real repercussions. Everyone wants events to be cheap, provide lots of opportunities to compete, run in the minimum amount of time, and not necessitate any inconvenience to themselves.  But something always gives when you pack 'em in too hard and fast.
		
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^^^ What TS said! I think the job of operating crossings is a vital safety issue however they are often left to kids or not manned at all. I volunteer at a lot of events in a number of different capacities, including things that have meant I need to drive round a course and it's difficult and stressful. I'm sure everyone at the Event was doing their best to ensure that everyone had a good days competition and it's terribly sad that this happened although I think it's more common than you'd expect, just in my immediate circle of friends I know of a number of incidents when vehicles or volunteers have got in the way of a horse on course one of which resulted in a horse fall. However it does raise questions about the number of riders events accept given that a couple of holds (albeit long ones) have meant they needed to run horses so close together. Although we all complain about cost and number of runs etc. ultimately safety should come first.


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## Honey08 (11 August 2013)

I am absolutely amazed at the number of parents that say they would happily assult someone in the heat of the moment!!  Its not as though the car deliberately hit the horse and rider, and to be honest I would be too wrapped up in checking that horse and rider were ok at that point.  

I feel very sorry for the horse, rider and driver.  I hope that the incident has a proper inquiry that results in safer practices in the future.


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## Roasted Chestnuts (11 August 2013)

Honey08 said:



			I am absolutely amazed at the number of parents that say they would happily assult someone in the heat of the moment!!  Its not as though the car deliberately hit the horse and rider, and to be honest I would be too wrapped up in checking that horse and rider were ok at that point.  

I feel very sorry for the horse, rider and driver.  I hope that the incident has a proper inquiry that results in safer practices in the future.
		
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This ^^^^^


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## 3Beasties (11 August 2013)

Honey08 said:



			I am absolutely amazed at the number of parents that say they would happily assult someone in the heat of the moment!!  Its not as though the car deliberately hit the horse and rider, and to be honest I would be too wrapped up in checking that horse and rider were ok at that point.  

I feel very sorry for the horse, rider and driver.  I hope that the incident has a proper inquiry that results in safer practices in the future.
		
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Ditto this ^^^

IMO the mother has acted worse then everyone in this.


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## DuckToller (11 August 2013)

Honey08 said:



			I am absolutely amazed at the number of parents that say they would happily assult someone in the heat of the moment!!  Its not as though the car deliberately hit the horse and rider, and to be honest I would be too wrapped up in checking that horse and rider were ok at that point.  

I feel very sorry for the horse, rider and driver.  I hope that the incident has a proper inquiry that results in safer practices in the future.
		
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And this again - I suspect both horse and rider will recover far quicker than the person who accidentally caused the accident and who will probably be having nightmares for years.  

I have jump judged for the afternoon and been sent off with a map and a vague wave of the hand and had to find my way across the course to my jump - I had no idea of the course layout or direction and had to inch my way across the land.

It is also not the first time this has happened this year - a rider fell off and the horse galloped home and was hit by a car about 6 weeks ago at another event - a steward was driving across and had looked in the direction of where the horses were coming from ie the start, but was not expecting a horse coming back from the other direction.  Horse went over the bonnet, and required many stitches.


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## TarrSteps (11 August 2013)

Re TR's mother behaving 'the worst of anyone' . . . we don't know if anyone hit anyone!! I've heard a couple of different versions of events and I have no doubt not all of them are first hand from spectators at close quarters.


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## vic07 (11 August 2013)

With regards to this happening at another event... I watched the incident and it was quite different. However emotions ran high then as well. Seems there needs to be 'lessons learnt' from both incidences - however possibly different lessons!


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## sarahann1 (12 August 2013)

What an awful accident. Having been a crossing point bod at a couple of big events, it put me off ever doing it again. It's a thankless task and on all occasions no one has thought to come and tell me and the folk I was with there was a course stop, or they are changing classes so get for a toilet run while you can. Very few folk say thanks, or even make eye contact with you, but instead tut, and huff because you aren't letting them across. Horsey folk who think they know better and members of the public who are clueless at the risks in vast numbers really isn't fun. The bun runs always seem to miss us out too, maybe it was just bad luck, but at one event I saw the bun run go past the fence judges a few times, they came by me once 

I'm very saddened that such a horrible accident had happened, but I'm not really surprised they are lacking volunteers. Maybe if the crossing point people were afforded the same respect as the fence judges they'd get more? As someone further pointed out, they are one vital safety mechanism out of many.

Sorry, that was a bit of a rant!


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## Magister (12 August 2013)

TarrSteps said:



			Re TR's mother behaving 'the worst of anyone' . . . we don't know if anyone hit anyone!! I've heard a couple of different versions of events and I have no doubt not all of them are first hand from spectators at close quarters.
		
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I saw the whole incident from about 30 metres away and this definitely did happen. :-(


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## BE_Volunteer (13 August 2013)

Good Morning all. I think it is about time we took a step back and look at all the facts, rather than whispers, hear say, and un-informed comments.

Before I start, my comments are not directed at any one in particular, we are all entitled to our views and opinions - this is a forum after all. Whilst I will generalize, I am not talking about everybody, so please no body be offended. A little to my background, I have Evented for many years, aswell as helping organize events for a decade, so have a good rounded view on how things work on both sides of the fence. I can also say that I was there, a matter of meters away, and witnessed it all

I will start by saying, we all know this should not have happened, however thank god the outcome was only a dented car - no injury was caused to the horse, however we are all aware how difficult this can be.

Firstly I would like to say, it amazes me how many experts come out of the woodwork, who were not there, and ones that were there who do not have their facts straight.
Firstly to how Tom's mother reacted. Yes she screamed, shouted and approach the driver and given the circumstances and human nature it is understandable. In hindsight was this right, no, but she is a loving mother, and that instinct will take over. This only lasted for a few moments, until she was led away calmly. She calmed down very quickly and was impeccably well behaved, whilst also being treated for shock. She apologized at the time, and later on in the day.

Next I would like to comment on the crossing point being un-manned. I challenge you all to go out to your local event and count the number of un-manned crossing points. On any course, there are crossing points (and whilst outsiders don&#8217;t know this, officials do) that are used generally (which includes spectators) that you will all see manned, and those that are meant for emergencies only. These crossing point are rarely used, but are there if needed. These tend to be un-manned. Yes in an ideal world, all crossing points would be manned, but it is a thankless task that you struggle to get volunteers to do. This is why the crossing points stewards are prioritised to busier locations, and un-manned crossing points are placed (where possible) close to a fence for the fence judge to monitor. Some events use their local cadets, however this can be a problem in itself as they can be un-reliable and are often inexperienced young people who are not familiar with horses(Some cadets are amazing I will add!). Crossing points are essential for the smooth running of an event, and more importantly to get vets, paramedics, safety reps, fence repair, horse ambulances etc to incidents as quick as possible.

People have suggested that vehicles should not be allowed on courses. How do you expect vets, paramedics, safety reps, fence repair, horse ambulances etc to get to these incidents. All vehicles on course are there for a reason, and each of the above is allocated a sector of course to cover. Those that were at the event will be aware that the first horse of the day fell, and injured the rider. Jennifer was both unconscious and not breathing. I absolutely commend all who were involved in that incident. It is a fact that Jennifer would not be with us today if it was not for the fast and effective actions of those involved. Additionally, there were also 2 trapped horses at the second water. This was no fault of the event, the horse/riders mis-judged the fence, and got trapped between the drop and rail. Both horses were extricated in minutes, very calmly, with no injuries &#8211; all to the applause of the spectators and riders. Removing trapped horses takes an awful lot of experienced people to do safely, and these people can be scattered over the course. So I will ask you all again, should we have vehicles on course or should we have everybody on foot with their gear in wheel barrows? 

People moan about quad bikes, but also moan when they don&#8217;t get their results quick enough &#8211; one day results will be sent wirelessly from a fence judges Ipad, but until entry fees go upto £1000 per horse, the quad bikes will have to suffice. Finally, the remaining officials on course are your ground jury, TD&#8217;s etc. They are essential to keep an eye on safety of horses, how riders are behaving and to discuss with fence judges any discrepancies when a riders complains about penalties that have been given. Now, they could wait until the end of the day to discuss this with the fence judge, but you horses wont appreciate waiting this long for the results, nor will you

People have also commented on how fast the horses were sent through the start. It has been suggested that they were running at 60 second intervals. This is simply not true. There is no way the TD&#8217;s, Ground Jury or control would allow this to happen.

It has been mentioned that there seems to have been a lot of holds on course and due to this it is perceived the event was run in confusion. The holds on course were due to rider falls and frangible pins breaking because horses have hit fences hard. These are a safety feature to stop rotational horse falls as many of you know. They take time to replace. Rotational horse fall or hold the course &#8211; it&#8217;s your choice, PICK ONE!!

People seem to have forgotten just how well this event was run and the ENORMOUS job that was involved. The ground was absolutely perfect, which has been echoed by all the riders, this alone has prevented many injuries to horses. The majority of this and other events are run by teams of volunteers who are up before the sun rises and often don&#8217;t finish until it is dark!

So, taking all the above into account I propose the following:

1)	Raise entry fees so that a doctor, paramedic, wheel barrow (to remove injured persons to hospital), fence repair team can be provided on every fence or leave entry fees as they are and play Russian roulette with horse an riders lives by having all team members walk to incidents. This would of course be made easier if you could all fall of at the same fence!

2)	Raise entry fees so that all volunteers can be paid to encourage more helpers. Alternatively those riders who don&#8217;t bother to volunteer (I am aware many of you do and you are great!!) Should have to pay a higher entry fee / provide a help. In Ireland, riders/someone connected to the rider MUST help out at events.

3)	Stop all riders walking the course on the day of competitions or make you arrive at 6am (with horse left in wagon for all that time), as there is always a report of one or two getting in the way, and horses having to take avoiding actions

4)	Stop all dogs, which includes riders dogs, as many are off the lead

5)	Stop all children as they like to run around, and are also often not on a lead

6)	Stop all spectators, as they always ignore the string and don&#8217;t use crossing points

7)	Stop anybody who is rude and abusive to volunteers, which does include both riders and spectators

8)	Reduce entries to 80 per event to make life easier, having only 1 horse on course at a time, of course entry fees will have to rise.

Now it&#8217;s up to you, we can vote either way here? 

Now putting the sarcasm aside, this incident should not have happened, but we all know that the driver did not intend to drive across the track and hit a horse. You are also aware that the driver is very experienced and would not have crossed the track blasé.
These types of incidents can and do happen and have happened at MANY events before!! 

I am hoping this has given you all a little insight, and would also hope in future that any comments that are made, are informed, rather than pure gossip.

Remove this incident from the event (and I am not trying to sweep it under the rug by any means), and it was a successful competition with no injuries to horses, fantastic ground and Jennifer is out of hospital recovering, all because of the hard work, organisation and fantastic reactions of an amazing team of staff/volunteers.


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## Goldenstar (13 August 2013)

Thank you for responding BE .
As you say this should not have happened .
Perhaps these unmanned crossing ought to be marked to show the direction of travel of the competing horses just in case someone looks the wrong way.


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## BE_Volunteer (13 August 2013)

I will point out that I am not BE, just a volunteer and rider that has done a lot with BE.


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## BE_Volunteer (13 August 2013)

It is an excellent idea though Golden Star. Constructive ideas are always welcome! It will be used!!!


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## Gamebird (13 August 2013)

BE_Eventing said:



			I will point out that I am not BE, just a volunteer and rider that has done a lot with BE.
		
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I think you may have caused some confusion with your choice of user name. I (and some others) assumed that this was the official line from BE HQ and were slightly concerned about the unprofessional tone from our governing body.

I agree with a lot of your points, but if you're not a BE representative giving the official line then I think you should possibly change your username as it's currently misleading.


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## ester (13 August 2013)

I was very concerned about the lack of professional tone given the user name.


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## Capriole (13 August 2013)

Gamebird said:



			I think you may have caused some confusion with your choice of user name. I (and some others) assumed that this was the official line from BE HQ and were slightly concerned about the unprofessional tone from our governing body.

I agree with a lot of your points, but if you're not BE then I think you should possibly change your username as it's currently misleading.
		
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That. I was a bit taken aback by the sarcastic and unprofessional tone, until it was pointed out that this was not in fact a BE official.


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## MiaBella (13 August 2013)

Quite simply this should not have happened.  Thus there should be an investigation into why it did happen and what needs to be done (at all events) to ensure it doesn't happen again. 

Not really bothered by how people reacted to the situation afterwards - however a horse going cross country, on the marked course should never be hit by a car (or have to take evassive measure to avoid a car) and nor should riders be expected to look out for vehicles in their path.  

Its not about putting up entry fees or blocking vehicles from the course, its simply about ensuring that vehicles on the course can get around safely, and where there are points where they need to cross the course, these are either manned or there is signage to ensure drivers know they are crossing a course and the direction of travel of the horses and maybe including in the briefings to officials where crossing points are (and if courses are changing during the day and these points change then this needs to be communicated as well). 

It shouldn't detract from the event but there are lessons that need to be learnt from this.


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## _GG_ (13 August 2013)

BE_Eventing said:



			I will point out that I am not BE, just a volunteer and rider that has done a lot with BE.
		
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I do think it would be a good idea to change your username. 

Your post started in a very official tone and ended in a somewhat sarcastic and unprofessional one. Given the wide audience of this forum and the fact that, by the very nature of your post and username being misleading, giving the impression that you are posting officially on behalf of BE, you could actually cause damage to the organisation you are trying to support. 

If BE wanted to comment on this, they would. They do not need you to post on their behalf when you are unable to do so without remaining professional. I liked the first part of your post and thought it was very reasoned and valid. After that though, I cannot imagine BE would want to be associated with your tone or comments and it is no good adding a caveat in a separate post.

We have official members from other societies on here and their usernames are extremely similar in style to yours, so it is easy for people to assume that your message is the official stance of BE. Not everyone will go on to read the rest of the thread. 

I understand you wanted to clear up a few points on this matter, but as you are not acting officially on behalf of BE, you should not be giving any impression that you are.


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## BE_Volunteer (13 August 2013)

I never intended to act as though I am from BE, others on here who are not BE officials have BE in their username. Perhaps confusing, but given my passion is with BE it seemed a natural choice given i couldn't think of anything else.

So all others who are un-informed to the facts can make wild comments without any thought that are often sarcastic and b*tchy can they? It does make you wonder why you volunteer!


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## BE_Volunteer (13 August 2013)

PS I came on here to make this one post, will no longer use this username and will reply to no further posts. You all now have the facts to make more informed comments in future, rather than speculating


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## _GG_ (13 August 2013)

BE_Eventing said:



			I never intended to act as though I am from BE, others on here who are not BE officials have BE in their username. Perhaps confusing, but given my passion is with BE it seemed a natural choice given i couldn't think of anything else.

So all others who are un-informed to the facts can make wild comments without any thought that are often sarcastic and b*tchy can they? It does make you wonder why you volunteer!
		
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I am only echoing a confusion that others have also felt. Yes, there are other members with BE in their usernames, but they are not on this thread, posting in an official tone as a new member with an officially styled username. 

As for your second sentence....I am again a little confused. I made no comment on other posters, I also made no comment saying I didn't agree with what you said....I actually liked your sarcastic comments, I agree with them all, BUT...I think it is extremely foolish of someone who is closely associated with BE to use that tone in a post that appears to others to be official. 

I would not imagine you deliberately set out to give the impression you were posting officially, but that is how it came across and when the time has elapsed in which you can edit your posts, it is here on these pages forever and could potentially cause embarrassment to BE. So, if you can't change the post, maybe best to change the username to remove any and all doubt?

I speak as someone who has volunteered for years at numerous events, been officially involved with BD and BS and even at those times that I could have commented officially, I wouldn't have. It is for the management of the organisation to do that, not anyone else. 

Again, not saying you were doing that intentionally, but it is how it came across on here. You can leave it like that if you wish, your choice. I however would do what I could to distance my personal views from the organisation I was trying to support as those personal views should not be confused with any official stance.


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## Capriole (13 August 2013)

Thing is though, BE_Eventing, you are just one more person commenting on a thread on the internet. There is no reason any of us would take _your _post as hard fact and not pure speculation or gossip, any more than any of the other posts have been taken as the final word.


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## ester (13 August 2013)

Ah the concept of no speculation on the internet... and interesting one that.

As you are not an official why would we presume your version of events are more accurate than those who have also stated they were present?

eta sorry capriole, I was obviously typing the same thoughts as you posted.


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## Zebedee (13 August 2013)

I did reply to the post by 'BE', but as it  now seems you aren't 'BE' I need to modify.

Some brilliant points made - especially with regards to stringing being ignored, loose dogs / children / & riders wanting results as soon as the last horse crosses the finish.


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## ester (13 August 2013)

Zebs you know this isn't actual BE?


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## Nic (13 August 2013)

Gamebird said:



			I think you may have caused some confusion with your choice of user name. I (and some others) assumed that this was the official line from BE HQ and were slightly concerned about the unprofessional tone from our governing body.
		
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Ditto this.


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## _GG_ (13 August 2013)

Zebedee said:



			B100dy brilliant reply BE. Tell it like it is & hopefully stop the grapevine jumping to conclusions & stop the gossips who want to moan & pick. Is it ok to repost this on other forms pf social media?
		
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Just bear in mind that as people on here have believed this to be an official statement, the same could be believed elsewhere without the OP having the ability to explain that they are not posting officially on behalf of BE. 

I really don't want to be preachy...I too completely agree with the post, but BE wouldn't be too happy about these views being possibly taken as their own. 

Just saying.


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## Puppy (13 August 2013)

ester said:



			I was very concerned about the lack of professional tone given the user name.
		
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Yes, me too. 

The username is very misleading, and the post was annoyingly sarcastic.


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## DollyPentreath (13 August 2013)

MiaBella said:



			Quite simply this should not have happened.  Thus there should be an investigation into why it did happen and what needs to be done (at all events) to ensure it doesn't happen again.
		
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This should be the key point of this thread. I don't care about he said, she said, I care about the safety of our horses, riders and volunteers. 

I do understand what GG is saying though, BE must take accidents and near misses extremely seriously if our sport is to survive in the modern world. It is not good enough to say accidents happen anymore. It's not about assigning blame or coming up with daft suggestions to make a mockery of 'H&S gone mad'. 

I agree with some of your points BE_E and I understand wanting to get the facts straight. But BE as a governing body must be seen to be utterly professional at all times (ESP when H&S is involved) and we should all do our utmost to support that image for the good of our sport.


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## Nic (13 August 2013)

BE_Eventing said:



			I am hoping this has given you all a little insight, and would also hope in future that any comments that are made, are informed, rather than pure gossip.
		
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As you are not speaking in an official capacity, I am unsure why you feel your opinion of the day carries more weight than that of others present at the time of the incident?


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## Zebedee (13 August 2013)

ester said:



			I was very concerned about the lack of professional tone given the user name.
		
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My original reply (edited because it then became apparent that the poster was not actually 'BE') indicated my delight that they were at last prepared to tell it like it is......should have realised it was too good to be true, but if the poster is speaking as a volunteer / rider then it's good to know that at least some out there appreciate the huge lengths that are gone to to try & prevent accidents happening (at ALL levels). More often these efforts are completely ignored by those who feel that information on signage / stringing restrictions etc simply do not apply to 'them'. Loose dogs / children are the tip of the iceberg...........


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## Zebedee (13 August 2013)

ester said:



			Zebs you know this isn't actual BE?
		
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Do now !!

Modified accordingly, then posted again.

I didn't mind the tone to be honest - thought it was a refreshingly honest review of how many (please note not all) competitors completely ignore H & S requests, & as I often have to explain how the results aren't available as the class hasn't finished to various impatient people who want to 'get off home' I quite liked the comment re Quads being essential too !!


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## kerilli (13 August 2013)

to respond to "not actually BE"'s confusing and would-be-authoritative comment about unmanned crossings... of course there are always plenty of unmanned places where people can cross on foot, but people are usually (not invariably) quicker to get out of the way, or far easier for a galloping horse to avoid, than a chuffing car! ANY place where a car can cross should have controlled supervision. It is difficult to see in all directions in a car!
I have been told that some of those manning the crossings were being very idle about it. IF that is true it seriously needs sorting so that it can't happen again. Also that there were lots of vehicles whizzing about... but that may well have been purely because of the falls and the frangible pins needing replacing, fair enough. 

As for "All vehicles on course are there for a reason, and each of the above is allocated a sector of course to cover"... I'm sorry, but this makes me laugh hollowly. "BE_Eventing" is perhaps not as experienced as s/he claims to be. 
I have witnessed, personally, (and I only volunteer at a couple of events, I am by no means mega-experienced as a volunteer) a BE Official who drives around, at speed, watching their pupils go XC. This I have witnessed more than once. 
There absolutely ARE vehicles whizzing about which should NOT be there.
Of course if there is a fall or a fence needs repairing, the necessary people need to get to it, NOBODY would have a problem with vehicles on/crossing the courses for that. 
But it is a fact that there are vehicle movements which do NOT need to happen, when horses are running.

I seriously hope that this leads to a MAJOR shake-up. Blenheim has already Tweeted that it is looking into its protocol regarding vehicles on/crossing courses. Bravo. I hope all events do this and that BE has a proper crack-down. 

As for the criticism of Tom's mother... jeezus christ, I cannot believe some of the judgemental stuff posted. In the heat of the moment, adrenalin levels so high, when either horse or rider could SO easily have been maimed or killed... I don't blame her in the slightest.


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## happyhack (13 August 2013)

my YO was at an event recently when a spectator/rider walking the course just wandered into her path as she approached a fence. there was a fence judge there and they did not blow their whistle and YO was forced to pull up and re-approach to avoid said person. YO approached the event organisers who said that the fence judge had made similar mistakes throughout the day and had been sent packing. The riders that complained had their faults that were accumulated at that fence deducted from their total so it was handled fairly.

If anyone ever feels that something dangerous has occurred - speak up to the event organisers! That's what they are there for. 
Thankfully at this event, no one was injured or harmed in any way so all's well that ends well, but it could have been catastrophic.


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## stencilface (13 August 2013)

kerilli said:



			As for "All vehicles on course are there for a reason, and each of the above is allocated a sector of course to cover"... I'm sorry, but this makes me laugh hollowly. "BE_Eventing" is perhaps not as experienced as s/he claims to be. 
I have witnessed, personally, (and I only volunteer at a couple of events, I am by no means mega-experienced as a volunteer) a BE Official who drives around, at speed, watching their pupils go XC. This I have witnessed more than once.
		
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This, this, this entirely, something I have seen too on more than one occasion, and I only probably go to about 6 events max in a year! (although might be a different official obviously!)


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