# PSD & my not quite right horse



## BethH (2 May 2014)

Hi - my horse had xrays today, vet think he has PSD in hindlimbs and I am going to have a bonescan next week to make absolutely certain of diagnosis and to check pelvis area too.

My gut feeling is that the vet is right as all the symptoms seem to make sense of what has happened to my horse.  I have had a huge problem with farrier not balancing his feet, so I took him barefoot 12mths ago and it has also taken me 6mths to persuade the vet that there is something wrong and he isn't just footsore.

So my question is this - given that it hasn't been immediately nipped in the bud which gives best chance of recovery and that it is hind limbs involved, does any treatment of the dozens that I seem to have read about give any hope that he won't just be retired.  He had KS as a baby and so needs to work to keep his back strong and I think he will deteriorate really quickly and end up PTS if I can't find a way to try to help & manage it well.  My vet suggests prognosis is poor especially as he didn't show any improvement on bute trial, he said that generally only 20% with Ryan's issue have any successful treatment.  He is a great vet and I trust his judgement but need some other ideas before he is written off.

I have read about PRP and also remember posts about ARC equine??? Any advice or ideas gratefully received as it isn't looking good for my poor boy!

Thank you - am try to avoid sinking a bottle of vodka at this point!


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## Floofball (2 May 2014)

Didn't want to read and run as don't like the thought of you downing a bottle at this time in the morning lol. I also have a horse with multiple issues so I know how frustrating and upsetting it can be when they're 'not quite right' but unfortunately his issues are not the same as yours so can't offer advice, just sympathy for your situation. There are a few horses on the yard that have suspensory issues and box rest seems to be the healing factor. One horse wasn't diagnosed for a long time and was still in work - the damage was quite bad but it did heal (although scarring can be seen on scans) and is now happy doing lower level work. You need it scanning to assess the damage properly, then go from there - good luck with him.


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## charliejet (2 May 2014)

Another one with a horse with multiple issues, it is so hard but just try and take one thing at a time and try (very hard i know!) to step back and assess on occasion.  
Agree you need to scan to see how much damage there is to know what you are dealing with.

Best of luck x


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## cptrayes (2 May 2014)

I'm confused. PSD I thought was a soft tissue injury of the suspensory ligaments. Will a bone scan show anything, or is that just for the pelvis?

I can't help I'm afraid, I've no experience of those problems, but I wish you well.


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## charliejet (2 May 2014)

Would need to ultrasound scan for PSD as far as I know?


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## Kadastorm (2 May 2014)

A bone scan will not show up PSD but will show up hotspots and places to focus on. My boy was scanned last year, all clear except a hot spot in his fore left foot and one in his hind right hip. He was then nerve blocked and scanned (ultrasound) and diagnosed with Bilateral PSD and x rays of his fore showed navicular. 

im sorry I don't have any experience of KS but with my boys PSD I had him on box rest for 8 weeks and he had 3 shockwave treatments. he also had corrective shoeing in front. he is now back in work and doing really well.


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## stencilface (2 May 2014)

The cost of a bonescan is a lot higher than have an ultrasound scan to detect ligament issues. I accept if you want everything diagnosed in one go so you can figure out a way to help everything, but if you only want to address the psd, only go for an ultrasound scan IMHO.

My boys psd was caught late, mainly because I had too much on to cope with lots of vet stuff and box rest at the time, and he wasn't really lame, was field sound so he had about 4-5 months before receiving treatment. He had 6 months box and small paddock rest with rehab walking and 3x shockwave treatments. I also hit him with alternative treatments, gave him rustox, ruta grav and arnica spray on his gums and got magnetic boots and a magnetic rug. I also had him treated by a chiro every 3 months. That was in 2011 and as far as I can tell he's sound onthat leg now and has been since 2012. I've taken him barefoot in the last 8 months, and before Christmas the chiro commented it was the first time he'd seen him truly sound behind in a long time.

Fingers crossed for you. If all else fails, afaik they can recover from psd if just given complete field rest for a year plus, it's just not possible to do that with vet fees and insurance etc


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## Auslander (2 May 2014)

Ultrasound, and nerve blocking of the suspensory (not at the same time as a hock block as it can give misleading results) is probably the most effective way to pinpoint suspensory injury/psd.
Another here with a chronic PSD horse - although I didn't go down the box rest route. Turned him out 24/7 in a pen for the recommended box rest period, then doped him and turned him out in a small flat paddock.

He had shockwave to start, which improved the look of his suspensories a lot, but there were a couple of stubborn lesions which didn't respond to the shockwave, so he had PRP into them. Final scans looked really good, but he still isn't 100% sound. He has spavins, and a degree of SI pain too, so it's tricky to identify and manage the source of the problems. 

I've just started using an Arc Equine, and I have noticed some interesting changes. other than improved soundness and willingness to work, his mud fever disappeared literally overnight, and some massive fibrous lumps of scar tissue on his elbows has melted away. Not related at all to the issues i'm using it for, but i thought it was very interesting that it seemed to be healing other chronic and acute issues.


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## BethH (2 May 2014)

All very interesting stuff thank you very much - it has taken so long to convince the vets that being barefoot wasn't the problem that I am now probably at least 6mths into my year to get it sorted.  The bone scan is to categorically cover everything in his hind end that could be wrong as given his history I don't want to just treat 1 thing if other issues are also causing him problems.  The vet was happy to nerve block etc etc but said he felt the bone scan was the most thorough way of covering everything and that my horse would have to wait 8wks before the bone scan if he blocked the legs to ensure it's accuracy. I would also hate to treat for PSD just to find he had other stuff going on too.  

I am not sure whether the insurance will pay in any case so am hoping I will be covered for the diagnostics to ensure he gets the right type of help, but as he is a much loved part of the family, I can't just leave him in the situation he is in.  I know I don't want him to have surgery, but if shockwave etc might help I would definitely go that route.

The ARC equine unit posts on here stayed with me because it sounded so effective for so many things that I want to investigate it further & there also appear to be good results with the PRP.  Auslander any further info would be fab if you have the time as I am thrilled you are seeing some improvements with your horse, if I google it will I find a website for it?  I am very pleased to be making progress with his diagnosis but very sad that it appears he is unlikely to ever recover from this, especially as hindlimbs are much more difficult to treat well.  Short term box rest is fine, but long term would be detrimental not only to his back but also to his brain.  He is a very bright chap who loves life and a calm demeanour has never been his thing.  I love him to bits, so field ornament is fine as he is in a lovely herd and am also happy to turn him away for a year if I truly thought that would fix him, but any treatment that could improve him would be great.  As an aside he initially went in as vet thought spavin but it appears his hocks are fine which is good news.  So very tired with the whole thing - gutted really!


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## Auslander (2 May 2014)

Website is www.arcequine.co.uk. Ian is very helpful if you call him. I had a meeting with him recently about editorial for one of my magazines, and was impressed enough with the evidence that I bought one. 

It's early days for Alf and he may never come completely sound, but he's better now than he was when I got him three years ago. His prognosis for a return to work was pretty gloomy, but he is now hacking out comfortably, and feeling far better underneath me than he ever did before. His hock flexion has improved, and he's stopped going everywhere curled up to the left.

I can't say that the Arc has done all this, as he has had a lot of other work done, but the really noticeable improvements have all been recent, since I started using it.

I've got a few vids on Youtube of him lunging at the start of Arc treatment, and plan to do more every month to see what improvement there is (if any!) 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_qhcBnY1WykkWlpPMB_smw

This is how he was just before he came to me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQdTFHKudBI


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## BethH (2 May 2014)

Bless him, actually so like Ryan, isn't he an honest horse you can see how hard he was trying for you ridden and the back end gait is just my horse.  The lunging video definitely shows him looking lighter on his feet and behaving exactly like my horse, more joy de vie than common sense! Even if Ryan could just enjoy light hacking to make life more interesting that would be good progress.  When the vet flexioned him at home he was 1/10th before flexion and 2-3/10th after.  After the trailer ride the vet was shocked to see how awful he looked!  I will go investigate ARC, thank you so much for posting the video's very interesting - makes me feel less alone with it, I really do now thing PSD is the problem having seen your video, I will also chat to the vet to see if some intervention like PRP could help him, I have a feeling more large bills are coming my way!  Out of interest, is your horse shod or barefoot? Just wondering whether shoeing is beneficial or detrimental - I am enjoying barefoot but want to make sure it is right for my boy.


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## Meowy Catkin (2 May 2014)

Shoes will increase the concussion going up his legs, so unless there is a specific reason to shoe, I would personally keep him BF.


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## Primitive Pony (2 May 2014)

I have just had a very positive experience with a holistic vet - a different issue, granted, but I would highly recommend him. PM me if you're interested, if you think you want a different view into his problems this chap could be very helpful, I suspect. I wish had met him a couple of years ago for my previous horse that had SI problems.


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## BethH (2 May 2014)

Hi thanks for offer of holistic treatment, am willing to give anything a try.  He has always has a brilliant bodworker/physio and my chiro check him regularly and we have tried kinesiology and bowen which has eased things for him but not resolved them over the last few months, I have also just emailed ARC Equine to see if they think their unit can help him. If your chap does anything differently a fresh pair of eyes would be great.  I am pretty against cutting ligaments just so I can ride and think palliative is the way forward for him given his history.  I am also wanting to keep him barefoot but was worried as he became extremely foot sore at the end of the winter partly because I couldn't work him so would hate feet to deteriorate again especially if he is to be retired, but I agree faracat the concussion from shoeing fills me with horror these days!


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## Primitive Pony (2 May 2014)

I've pm-ed you. Hesitant to post publicly until I see how much progress my horse makes but so far so good!


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## soulfull (2 May 2014)

So sorry to hear this

I'm sorry but I'm going to add another worry into your pot

To cut a very long story short My WB had surgery for psd.  However it was later proved that what he had was DPSD. Which basically meant it was in all his limbs to varying degrees.   But this was obviously not picked up (or even looked for) until after surgery.   Too be honest I am still annoyed that despite him proving to be lame on 3 out of 4 limbs they didn't look. I wallowed myself to be fobbed off with the left hind is nothing to worry about and we can't do anything about the right fore until we've fixed the right hind.  I had no idea DPSD existed. But the vet should have!!

The cynic in me wonders if it was about money and teaching experience for the surgery

So in future I would always want all 4 limbs tested before I decided on any treatment. 

http://www.pvj.com.ok/pdf-files/31_1/1-8.pdf


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## BethH (2 May 2014)

Really appreciate the post Soulfull, it is so awful not knowing the best way forward, this is why I want the bone scan, I won't operate on him further but I do want to fully understand how compromised he is and I fully understand your frustration with the vet, how awful to put your horse through surgery and still not have the problem resolved - exhausting!  I am sitting here thinking that if they had listened to me properly 6months ago, would the situation be as bleak for Ryan as it is now!  He has been such a wonderful teacher and through my experiences with him, I have been able to help so many other people, many on H&H with the knowledge I gained from his situation with KS & behavioural issues etc etc.  I won't have any more horses after Ryan as I have had 2 of the very best personalities, don't believe I will find a 3rd!  I just hope if we can't help him further that whatever retirement he is able to have will be happy & pain free, am just dreading it when he breaks finally! so appreciate all of you posting and for the advice, wish us luck that the bone scan isn't as bad next week as I think it will be, fingers crossed for the little man!


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## Auslander (2 May 2014)

BethH said:



			Bless him, actually so like Ryan, isn't he an honest horse you can see how hard he was trying for you ridden and the back end gait is just my horse.  The lunging video definitely shows him looking lighter on his feet and behaving exactly like my horse, more joy de vie than common sense! Even if Ryan could just enjoy light hacking to make life more interesting that would be good progress.  When the vet flexioned him at home he was 1/10th before flexion and 2-3/10th after.  After the trailer ride the vet was shocked to see how awful he looked!  I will go investigate ARC, thank you so much for posting the video's very interesting - makes me feel less alone with it, I really do now thing PSD is the problem having seen your video, I will also chat to the vet to see if some intervention like PRP could help him, I have a feeling more large bills are coming my way!  Out of interest, is your horse shod or barefoot? Just wondering whether shoeing is beneficial or detrimental - I am enjoying barefoot but want to make sure it is right for my boy.
		
Click to expand...

First vid was at his previous home - I'm a bit less little and delicate than the rider in that vid!
He's definitely feeling well - but you can see the classic PSD bunny hopping in the Out-takes vid.  He automatically bunny hops, rather than cantering properly now, but (when he isn't being a wally!) you can see him remembering that his legs don't hurt as much now, and correcting himself so he canters properly!

He has shoes in front, and is shoeless behind. He has a massive crack in one front foot, which opens up if he doesn't have shoes on and makes him lame. There's damage to the coronet band, so it just won't grow out. He doesn't wear shoes in the winter, but as soon as the ground dries out, the front starts splitting again. 
He was in hind sports bars, and was 100% sound in them, but I opted to try again with no shoes behind to reduce concussion.
If you're on Facebook, there's a great group called PSD Discussion Group. Very supportive crowd of people at different stages of rehab.


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## BethH (2 May 2014)

Thanks Auslander - Ryan isn't bunny hopping yet but over the last couple of weeks definitely is unhappy offering cantering which used to be his favourite thing ever! Think I will try and keep him barefoot as when he did get foot sore we used some brilliant grips and wraps which worked a treat, the concussion from shoes does worry me, I just need to be quicker to notice if he isn't quite coping when it gets very wet!

Will go look at the PSD group on facebook, I might be able to pick up some tips, the fact there is even a possibility of rehab is good news because by the end of yesterday I was seriously thinking it was curtains for Ryan with no hope of anything helping him!  Just need to keep plugging away at it!


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## soulfull (2 May 2014)

Beth. I so understand the need to know exactly what is going on!

I was obvious heartbroken when I made the decision to pts.   If only I had known I would never have put him through surgery.  All that time on box rest which he hated and pain he suffered. Not too mention getting a really bad post op virus

I would have let him enjoy the time he had left.  In the end he was too sore and I refused to bute an 8yr just to turn out. He was also too full if life to have just stood in the field. 

He was very special.  

Please please don't think that about horses

I had beacon for 8yrs he was Erm well..... a character (couldn't even rely on him doing the opposite of what the book said). and we did everything from shows to hunt

Then Micah whom I lost

However I now have Fi.  Only had her 6 months but amazingly I think she is going to be even more incredible and I never thought I could find one like Micah. She doesn't have his zest for life, but probably a good job as I'm too old and crippled to have kept up lol


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## BethH (2 May 2014)

I just so hope your new horse has a really long, trouble free, easy life and lives to a ripe old age - think you deserve that!  Enjoy every bit of her.  Ryan's ks op was such a success and we have been so careful not to ask too much of him, and he has been completely classically & gently ridden that I just can't quite believe he has this, I only started doing a tiny bit of jumping last summer as I finally thought he has been so strong for so long that he could easily manage it - I thought I'd be riding him into his 30's! I unfortunately have a habit of picking very charismatic horses and just know I'll end up with another trouble chops, I just can't resist the personality, it's like they see me coming with MUG printed in large letters on my forehead!  At least I have some ideas to go investigate further, def vet query will be PRP & may well hire an ARC for the hell of it to see if it works - figure nothing to lose at this point - I just hope if he retires he learns to behave himself and stay in the field he is put in!!


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## soulfull (3 May 2014)

Bless you and thank you.  

Sounds like you buy with your heart. That's how I ended up with beacon lol. 

I wish you all the luck in the world in sorting this out and getting the best possible out come


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