# Laminitis.....what do I need to know?



## Bertolie (3 July 2018)

My 8 year old mare was diagnosed with laminitis last Thursday. Brought her in from field Wednesday night and she seemed a little lame but walked in ok and stabled overnight.  Daughter called vet next morning after she refused to move. Vet said we had caught it early and she is on box rest till further notice and twice daily Danilon. She still looks uncomfortable but moving around her deep bedded box ok. No xrays have been taken, though i will speak to my vet about that as she is a heavy girl and pedal bone movement is a worry for me at present.

Now to the nitty gritty......she is fat! She has not been exercised properly since last June due to a catalogue of problems, head shaking, unexplained lameness picked up on a lameness locator, then liver issues. Unfortunately she is an extremely good doer and i got complacent as she has been on far lusher grazing and out 24/7 and never any problems in the past. 

She currently weights 729kg (feed company nutritionist would like her areound the 675kg mark) with a body condition score of 4 out of 5. Currently having 4kg soaked hay during day and 6kg soaked hay at night but is eating her straw bed like nobody's business!  One of the vets says let her eat the hay, another says change her to shavings.  

I have never had to deal with laminitis before.....and help and advice on management and also weight loss would be most welcome.


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## JillA (3 July 2018)

Everything you need to know is on here www/http://www.thelaminitissite.org/laminitis.htm but while you are reading it, change her bed. Starw (unless it is chopped) isn't conforming enough. You need something that will conform to and support all the structures of the underside of the hoof, as if the laminae are inflamed, they can't do their job of fixing the hoof capsule onto the bony structures inside. Without support for underneath you are risking the pedal bone sinking or rotating - and you need x rays to know what is going on inside, especially if your horse is 10/10ths lame.
Good luck, try and get your vet to read TLS propocols, they have better outcomes than many of the alternatives.


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## Bertolie (3 July 2018)

JillA said:



			Everything you need to know is on here www/http://www.thelaminitissite.org/laminitis.htm but while you are reading it, change her bed. Starw (unless it is chopped) isn't conforming enough. You need something that will conform to and support all the structures of the underside of the hoof, as if the laminae are inflamed, they can't do their job of fixing the hoof capsule onto the bony structures inside. Without support for underneath you are risking the pedal bone sinking or rotating - and you need x rays to know what is going on inside, especially if your horse is 10/10ths lame.
Good luck, try and get your vet to read TLS propocols, they have better outcomes than many of the alternatives.
		
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Thank you for the link - I will have a read once I am home.

The bed is going to be changed to shavings which are on order, but cant be done until the weekend.  I was told to cold hose her feet but this would involve her walking to the nearest hose and I am extremely reluctant to do that, as other people have advised that their vets stated not to walk them!  Vet is out on Friday to carry out a liver biopsy as well as re-assessing the laminitis, so may ask for x-rays to be done at the same time.  She is currently shod on the fronts - would you expect the vet to recommend removing shoes in this situation?


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## meleeka (3 July 2018)

When my boy was on box rest for something else I gave him soaked hay in a teeny holed net, bedded him on shavings and also gave him a Shires Black/red haynet full of straw. He lost 100kgs in just over a month on this and was never hungry so it is possible.


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## asmp (3 July 2018)

Mine was diagnosed with laminitis a few weeks ago.  Would advise a bedding like Laysoft as its really firm, rather than normal shavings.


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## Bertolie (3 July 2018)

Bedding is supplied through yard owner so a bit restricted on brands. The one i have got on order is currently being used by another livery with a lamanitic horse and ok'd by her vet.


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## Pearlsasinger (3 July 2018)

I would offer plain oat straw chaff (not Top Chop Zero) in addition to soaked hay, even if that means giving less hay.  Horses need to be able to trickle feed, or they develop ulcers.  I wouldn't bother with cold hosing - it's a bit of an old wives tale!.  However I would ask the vet about Sedalin, it apparently helps the blood flow.  You have all my sympathy, my Draft horse was enormous when I bought her - my farrier gave dire warnings about how her feet would drop if she got laminitis.  I got her weight down about 200kg by feeding oat straw chaff ad-lib.


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## Sandstone1 (3 July 2018)

Have you thought about pads or boots to help support her feet?
You need a really deep shavings bed.  I would have xrays done asap so you know what you are dealing with.   You will need a good farrier  to trim in the correct way to get the balance of the hoof right and help correct any rotation.
Talk to your vet about testing for cushings and ems.
Acp can help the blood flow and help keep them calm.
Good luck as the whole thing is a massive nightmare.


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## Carlosmum (3 July 2018)

I expect once you change the bedding she will start to loose.


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## Gloi (3 July 2018)

Bertolie said:



			Bedding is supplied through yard owner so a bit restricted on brands. The one i have got on order is currently being used by another livery with a lamanitic horse and ok'd by her vet.
		
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As an emergency I'd be going to buy it myself today.


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## Nari (3 July 2018)

I'd ring the vet & make sure he brings an x-ray machine with him because I'd really want to know what's going on in there. Would it be possible for you to get your farrier there at the same time? I'd far rather have a farrier remove shoes from traumatised feet, plus if there's any movement he'll be able to trim to what the x-rays show, check the trim & fit whatever supports he feels are needed. A correct trim can make a huge difference to comfort if there's movement, and particularly with a big horse I feel supports are crucial. Please don't let your vet tell you it's a mild case so x-rays aren't needed, the degree of lameness is no indicator of what's going on inside the feet.

While you're waiting for shavings to arrive I'd spray the straw with something nasty to stop her eating it.


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## millikins (3 July 2018)

Gloi said:



			As an emergency I'd be going to buy it myself today.
		
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This, acute laminitis is a medical emergency which your YO should know, the weekend is too long away.


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## Gloi (3 July 2018)

millikins said:



			This, acute laminitis is a medical emergency which your YO should know, the weekend is too long away.
		
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With a horse that size I'd think it even more urgent than a little lightweight pony, the risk of irreparable damage is too great to wait.


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## Bertolie (3 July 2018)

Spoke to vets again today and they are still saying no need for xrays at this point in time, just keep her on a deep bed, straw or shavings.  They aren't to worried about her eating her bed at present, just advised to switch to shavings as soon as I can. 

Vets will be back out on Friday to re-assess as shes having her liver biopsy done then. Getting so much conflicting advice I just don't know what to do for the best.


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## Sandstone1 (3 July 2018)

Bertolie said:



			Spoke to vets again today and they are still saying no need for xrays at this point in time, just keep her on a deep bed, straw or shavings.  They aren't to worried about her eating her bed at present, just advised to switch to shavings as soon as I can. 

Vets will be back out on Friday to re-assess as shes having her liver biopsy done then. Getting so much conflicting advice I just don't know what to do for the best.
		
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Change vets. Your horse needs to be on a deep shavings bed now.  Not straw. She needs some support for her feet now.   If you dont xray you dont know what you are dealing with.
Believe me you dont want to take this lightly. Laminitis is a serious and dangerous disease.
Sorry to be blunt but sadly I do speak from experience


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## Bob notacob (3 July 2018)

Dont hose , the problem is that unless you have the sort of back up only a veterinary horsepital can provide, it will not be continuous enough and cause more harm than good. Ideal weigt 675 kg, needs normaly betwean 1.5 and 2.5 % body weight as dry matter fibre . This equates to 12 kg to 20 kg . Subject to veterinary advice it can be reduced to about 1.2% which is just under 10 kg. Cutting the fibre is always risky (colic) Straw is low energy so eating a bit of bedding is not the end of the world. Wheat straw has the lowest energy so put her on that. There is a horse on our yard with laminitis ,owner has bought her a socking great electric fan which sits outside her doorway ,chain across. She absolutely loves it .


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## JillA (4 July 2018)

And feed something soaked and sloppy, like beet pulp (unmollassed), especially if you are feeding straw. Otherwise there is a very real risk of impaction colic die to too little movement and too little liquid when they are on box rest


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## tallyho! (4 July 2018)

Cold hose? I think that&#8217;s outdated advice.

The support needed immediately is nutritional so absolutely no sugar. Contrary to what vets believe, the hoof does need movement. Does she still have shoes on?


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## ycbm (4 July 2018)

tallyho! said:



			Contrary to what vets believe, the hoof does need movement. Does she still have shoes on?
		
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Not if the laminae aren't holding the feet on, they don't!   There is a critical phase in acute laminitis when the horse should definitely not move, TH, or a sore horse could become a sinker.


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## ycbm (4 July 2018)

Bertolie said:



			Spoke to vets again today and they are still saying no need for xrays at this point in time, just keep her on a deep bed, straw or shavings.  They aren't to worried about her eating her bed at present, just advised to switch to shavings as soon as I can. 

Vets will be back out on Friday to re-assess as shes having her liver biopsy done then. Getting so much conflicting advice I just don't know what to do for the best.
		
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She needs bedding that will pack up inside her shoes and support the sole. If your straw does that then it's very strange straw. I wonder if they think you are on modern  straw chop?  I would change your bedding immediately. 

I wouldn't be too concerned about immediate x rays. The vast majority of horses will recover from an episode caught early without ever being x rayed.


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## Pinkvboots (4 July 2018)

if she is on straw get the vet to pad her feet with frog supports or it can be done with rolls of bandages and vet wrap my vet showed me how to do mine so I could change them myself.


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## meleeka (4 July 2018)

ycbm said:



			I wouldn't be too concerned about immediate x rays. The vast majority of horses will recover from an episode caught early without ever being x rayed.
		
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My vets normally wait to see if theres any improvement after a week before xraying.


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## tallyho! (4 July 2018)

ycbm said:



			Not if the laminae aren't holding the feet on, they don't!   There is a critical phase in acute laminitis when the horse should definitely not move, TH, or a sore horse could become a sinker.
		
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She said she caught it early ycbm.


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## JillA (4 July 2018)

I think if she is just footy, a bit sore walking you are looking at inflamed laminae. If she is hobbling, struggling to move at all you are looking at laminae that are about to let go and that is when you need x rays. Monitor closely - mine was very footy, so I kept him in my manege on a conforming surface but he could move as much as he felt able to, and no grass etc etc. He suddenly went crippled after about 36 hours, x rays revealed sinkage, so keeping on top of the degree of lameness is vital


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## eggs (4 July 2018)

Two years ago one of my horses - a big 16.2 warmblood - came in looking a little bit footy.  Fortunately the vet was up for something else and advised to treat as though laminitic as he was overweight.  I went straight out and bought 10 bales of a shavings mix bedding (can't remember what it was) and deep bedded one of my smaller stables right up to the door.  On vet's advice he had 2 Danilon twice a day as well as Sedalin.  Next day he looked much more uncomfortable but as the vet was up to see the horse that she had originally been up for I got her to take another look at him.  She told me not to worry as we had caught it very early and that it would take a day or two before we would see any improvement.  

The following day he looked a lot happier and the day after that he was moving around his box as though nothing had happened.  I kept him on strict box rest for 10 days before turning out - on vet advice - in a small electric fenced paddock.  X-rays weren't taken and he has been sound since.  He is however muzzled during the summer to keep his weight under control.

I think the key to our success was catching it so early.


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## LaurenBay (4 July 2018)

switch to shavings ASAP, Horse will not lose weight until you switch! as others said Horse also needs more padding on the soles. I would be going out today to buy bedding and not wait until the weekend!!


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## tallyho! (4 July 2018)

LaurenBay said:



			switch to shavings ASAP, Horse will not lose weight until you switch! as others said Horse also needs more padding on the soles. I would be going out today to buy bedding and not wait until the weekend!!
		
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Yes def sort bedding asap and some boots with pads in. I'd also be trying to consult an EP.


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## Bertolie (4 July 2018)

tallyho! said:



			Cold hose? I think that&#8217;s outdated advice.

The support needed immediately is nutritional so absolutely no sugar. Contrary to what vets believe, the hoof does need movement. Does she still have shoes on?
		
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She is shod on fronts and shoes still on currently.


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## ycbm (4 July 2018)

tallyho! said:



			She said she caught it early ycbm.
		
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She also said that the horse refused to move.

And you didn't qualify your advice when you said (all) laminitis sufferers needed to move.


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## Bertolie (4 July 2018)

Bedding being delivered later today so will switch her to shavings first thing in morning.  She has been given slightly more 12 hour + soaked hay in small holed nets today in a bid to stop her gorging her bedding. This is just a temporary measure until we get her on the shavings. Vet is back out again on Friday morning so will see how she is then.


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## Nari (4 July 2018)

You have a big horse that's been diagnosed with laminitis, is on two danilon a day & doesn't want to come out of the box yet the vet says straw bedding is fine, they'll be out on Friday & x-rays aren't needed. Do yourself and your horse a favour & when you change the bedding change the vet too.


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## LaurenBay (4 July 2018)

I would also not be happy with the vet, if it wasn't for your Horse refusing to move then I would say Friday is ok as long as Horse is comfy in the meantime. But with your Horse refusing to move, that is a very big indication that the Horse is in a great deal of pain and time is of the essence. Laminitis is such a dreadful thing to deal with. I don't mean to scare you or sound harsh but a Horse I was once stabled with came in one day, just a bit footsore and didn't look too bad, a couple of days later Horse was in immense pain and was PTS with acute Lami. It really can happen so fast.


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## Sandstone1 (4 July 2018)

LaurenBay said:



			I would also not be happy with the vet, if it wasn't for your Horse refusing to move then I would say Friday is ok as long as Horse is comfy in the meantime. But with your Horse refusing to move, that is a very big indication that the Horse is in a great deal of pain and time is of the essence. Laminitis is such a dreadful thing to deal with. I don't mean to scare you or sound harsh but a Horse I was once stabled with came in one day, just a bit footsore and didn't look too bad, a couple of days later Horse was in immense pain and was PTS with acute Lami. It really can happen so fast.
		
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I agree.  Please dont underestimate how serious this can be.


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## tallyho! (7 July 2018)

ycbm said:



			She also said that the horse refused to move.

And you didn't qualify your advice when you said (all) laminitis sufferers needed to move.
		
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Now that I can post again, I will reply 

Yes, and then she said she was moving around the box ok. 

Perhaps I should have rephrased and added in, once the acute phase is over, laminitics should move and not box rested forever like some people like to advocate. Circulation is so important. I can understand what I said may have been taken to mean laminitics need to move even in pain so thanks for pointing it out. I definitely don't think movement in the acute stage is beneficial.


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## Bertolie (7 July 2018)

It appears i can now post again so...
Perhaps my choice of words in my original post were misleading. Instead of saying refusung to move, reluctant to move would have been a better choice.

Vet was back out yesterday and assessed her. She is still sore/uncomfortable on her feet so the Danilon has been increased for the time being.  As the vet pointed out she is a big girl and those feet have to support a lot of weight. Yes, she is overweight, though not excessively. She needs to lose around 50kgs. She is now on a deep shavings bed with weighed, soaked hay so hopefully we will see some weight loss. 

With regards to changing vets, i trust my vet implicitly. X-rays will be taken but not until she is off the Danilon or it has been reduced back down. The other major vets in my area follow the same course of action for laminitis ( there is another mare on the yard with laminitis so i know they do things exactly the same).  She will be re-assessed next week to see where we are. She is certainly a lot brighter and moving around the box a lot easier today.


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## JillA (8 July 2018)

Interesting that there is another horse on the yard affected - is your grazing full of ryegrass? It has many many times the amount of sugar as meadow grass (which is great for dairy or fat cattle but not so good for equines)


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## ycbm (8 July 2018)

I was called by the daughter to see a 13.2 pony which had gone laminitic while the owner was away. The vet told me to give her two bute immediately. Two twice a day for two days, one twice a day for four days, then drop to one a day.

I was shocked by the quantity for such a small horse, but was told it was to knock the inflammation on the head hard before it could cause any more damage. 

The fact that your horse has had to have her dose increased and they didn't worry about a long straw bed does suggest that they aren't great at managing laminitis, sorry.

I hope the progress continues. Most horses recover fine if caught early enough.


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## Bertolie (8 July 2018)

JillA said:



			Interesting that there is another horse on the yard affected - is your grazing full of ryegrass? It has many many times the amount of sugar as meadow grass (which is great for dairy or fat cattle but not so good for equines)
		
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No we are on meadow grass. Other horse was diagnosed with laminitis following steroid injections.


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## Bertolie (8 July 2018)

ycbm said:



			The fact that your horse has had to have her dose increased and they didn't worry about a long straw bed does suggest that they aren't great at managing laminitis, sorry.

I hope the progress continues. Most horses recover fine if caught early enough.
		
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I dont think i mentioned anywhere that she was on a long straw bed?  She was on very short chopped barley straw which is why the vet said it was fine, but also why she was eating a lot of it....she literally had a chaff bed!


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## Gloi (21 July 2018)

How's she doing now?


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## Bertolie (26 July 2018)

Gloi said:



			How's she doing now?
		
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Sorry only just seen this! She is looking a lot more comfortable on her feet. Still on one danilon twice a day. Farrier was out just under two weeks ago and trimmed her back feet but agreed with vet to leave fronts well alone at present. Vet out tomorrow to xray feet and see where we go from here. She is still on her strict diet and I think its starting to work....I thought I actually felt some ribs tonight and she's gone from 645kg to 596kg on the weigh tape.


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## Gloi (1 August 2018)

Hope it all works out okay for you and her.


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## Tiddlypom (2 August 2018)

I see from your other thread that she needs to be kept on box rest for a long time yet. I'm sorry to hear this. Does the vet think that any of her other issues contributed to this lami episode? Has she been tested for PPID or EMS?


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## JillA (2 August 2018)

I'd be interested to know what the x rays reveal - presumably your farrier/trimmer will have access to them too


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