# NY carriage horse dies in street



## Ranyhyn (25 October 2011)

so sad for him, RIP horsey
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ral-Park-carriage-horse-COLLAPSED-street.html


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## itsonlyme (25 October 2011)

Poor horse.  I never realised how many hours they work every day.  

I dont agree with the woman who says 




			'Healthy horses do not drop dead on the street.  

'The drivers always like to profess that they are such horse experts.  

'If that is so, then shouldn't the driver have been more sensitive to this horse and noticed that something was wrong.'
		
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Horses, like people, can drop dead at any time. 

At least they're doing a necropsy.  I doubt they'd bother if it happened over here.


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## BBH (25 October 2011)

Yes I saw this earlier. 

Very Sad and although it doesn't state the horse was worked to death there does seem some hope that the length of time the horses work will be reduced.


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## Ranyhyn (25 October 2011)

I have been on a carriage ride in NY, we had an old but very hale amish ex racer (allegedly!) we were given carrots and apples to feed him afterwards and his driver seemed very proud of him.  It seems that the animal agents over there will tell them all to go in, if the weather is too hot etc and they have water/nosebags etc but it can, as someone has said - all be down to the individual.  He doesn't look in bad condition outwardly and is of the right "type" you'd have thought.

Lets hope its not linked to any mistreatment and that they do continue to work with the authorities to make it as pleasant as possible for the horses.


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## misswitch2 (25 October 2011)

I'm in NY alot and see these horses all the time. They always look in good condition and regularly see them rested with nose bags and water. 

That said, i never realised that they work so long, and i never think that NYC is a very good place for a horse. It's so busy and noisy for them, and it's alot of road work.


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## stencilface (25 October 2011)

9 hours is a long day for a horse in that environment.  Poor horse, I don't like the bit about them waiting for it to be loaded into the trailer, not loaded in a way we would think of, but dragged by its feet. 

(I know there is not other way - just questioning choice of words!)


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## posie_honey (25 October 2011)

i went in a NY carriage ride back in feb 2000 (ok so a good while back now!) but the horse was well kept and healthy looking - even in the middle of a v cold winter

i'm not denying that their hours are long and some are mistreated - but there are obv some good owners there who really do look after their horses


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## SusannaF (25 October 2011)

The horse looks in good nick, but it must be pretty awful for them in the worst of the summer. But agree, horses are mortal, and heart attacks happen to all mortals.

But if people want to see what real neglect looks like, here's what happened to a horse that wasn't in work, in LA (and there are plenty more like her):

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/unl...ciated-horse-dumped-on-south-gate-street.html

(warning, photo is really grim)


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## applecart14 (25 October 2011)

itsonlyme said:



			I dont agree with the woman who says 

Horses, like people, can drop dead at any time. 


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My previous horse aged 14 dropped dead in front of my yard owner.  She turned him out, he trotted off down the field with his mate, she turned to leave the field and heard him make a funny noise, she went up to him, he was trembling as she stroked him, and then fell at her feet dead. When we arrived he was laid in the field in his rug.  Not a bead of sweat under his rug, not a single blade of grass disturbed at his feet.  Glad it was quite quick for him.  I had reiki not long after with a reiki whisperer and she said my horse had 'appeared' to her and told her he had a tightening across his chest and had to leave, he was sorry he didn't get to say goodbye to me.  Her words nearly broke my heart, but was reassuring at the same time that there is another life after this one.

Horses quite often have heart attacks.  Especially those gelded late.


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## MadBlackLab (25 October 2011)

Its a sad story but like others have echoed horses can just drop dead even the healthy ones. In a way its less painful for them


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## GinaB (25 October 2011)

I hate the DM's insistance in posting such awful and distressing pictures  Like those of Gaddafi/Michael Jackson/Yeu Yeu etc Even though they put 'Warning Graphic Content' quite often one of the pictures is included with the headline so you don't even need to click on the link!

Poor horse, RIP x


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## millhouse (25 October 2011)

Very sad.  Rest in peace dear horse.


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## alliersv1 (25 October 2011)

applecart14 said:



			Horses quite often have heart attacks.  Especially those gelded late.
		
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Really? Why's that?


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## applecart14 (26 October 2011)

alliersv1 said:



			Really? Why's that?
		
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This is what my vet told me and I know this is going to sound really naff now but it was some time ago and I can't really remember quite what he said.  I think it was something like when stallions are used for breeding, and when they climb off the mare (sorry not into breeding so not sure of correct terminology) sometimes they have a kind of 'colic looking episode' where they can collapse or 'stagger'.  If I remember correctly the vet said it was due to abnormal pressure of blood pumping into or surrounding the heart.  I'm guessing that this becomes weakened over time.

I suppose he was saying that horses that are gelded late are gelded late because they have often been used for breeding.

Not sure if I've made much sense there, as I say the discussion was a long time ago.  I guess i was just looking for an answer as my 11 year old was gelded very late and he was considered a rig although blood tested negative.

I was forced (long story) by various liveries and an unscoupulous yard owner into giving the horse a hormone injection called Depo Provera which was at the time (and may still be) unlicensed for use in horses and I had to sign a disclaimer from the vets due to this. He had three injections in all over a period of months.  He dropped down dead as described earlier in the post of a heart attack.  It was years after that I asked my vet (another practice) if the injections could have contributed and explained about him being gelded late.  This is why I was given the explanation I have given you above.

So sorry I can't be any clearer.


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## applecart14 (26 October 2011)

applecart14 said:



			I think it was something like when stallions are used for breeding, and when they climb off the mare (sorry not into breeding so not sure of correct terminology) sometimes they have a kind of 'colic looking episode' where they can collapse or 'stagger'.
		
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Think the vet may have been referring to aortic - iliac thrombosis as I've googled to try and find you the information, although i can't see anywhere that this results in death, other than by humane destruction and not from a heart attack.

If I see the vet again I will ask him what he meant.  Sorry to be so vague.


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## luckyoldme (26 October 2011)

that horse does nt look neglected to me. Also im not sure how anyone could load a horse any other way than dragging it with a winch. that s why most of us dont hang around to see our horses buried or carted away.
On a lighter note he made the papers... i reckon quite a few people drop dead on streets without making the papers!


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## SusannaF (26 October 2011)

Apparently he'd only been working a month.

I get a Google News Alert with all news items mentioning horses, and the stuff from the US just now is full of reports of genuinely starved, truly neglected horses, turning up by the thousands. One carriage horse, who looks in good nick, dies, and people cry cruelty. They don't know what that looks like...


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## alliersv1 (26 October 2011)

applecart14 said:



			Think the vet may have been referring to aortic - iliac thrombosis as I've googled to try and find you the information, although i can't see anywhere that this results in death, other than by humane destruction and not from a heart attack.

If I see the vet again I will ask him what he meant.  Sorry to be so vague. 

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Thanks, that's interesting.
My lad was gelded at 6 and has been used as a stud, so obviously your comment caught my attention. I've heard of other things that apparently can be caused by late gelding, but never that.


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## Spotsrock (26 October 2011)

alliersv1 said:



			Thanks, that's interesting.
My lad was gelded at 6 and has been used as a stud, so obviously your comment caught my attention. I've heard of other things that apparently can be caused by late gelding, but never that.
		
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Ditto, my boy was either imported or castrated at 8, possibly both but his passport is foriegn so I'm not sure which, can't imagine hime being used for breeding as he is not classically good looking of you know what I mean!! Still, off to google possible links now.


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## Hunters (31 October 2011)

Every time I have been in New York, these horses have looked well cared for and rested for good periods of time.  They have special shoes on (look closely and you'll see shoes that you rarely would see in the UK) in order to protect their feet.

Horses drop dead, it happens - if they were dropping dead all over New York that would be a different matter?


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## GTs (31 October 2011)

I used to drive a horse and carriage in Boston and thought quite highly of the care the horses recieved. Compared to life on the Amish farm (where our horses were bought form), 9 hours is the city 3 times a week (all our horses were allowed to work) was a vacation.


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## amage (31 October 2011)

Well looking at those pics he is far from starved and looks in good nick. Horses drop dead all the time same as people. I will never forget a carraige ride we had booked being cancelled and a cop laughing at how it was too cold for the horses to be out but he still had to work!


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## SusannaF (1 November 2011)

I did a blogpost on this and just had a very interesting response, if anyone's curious. It concerns the ASPCA and the fact that their CEO wants to buy the land on which the carriage horse stables currently stand. 

The plot thickens!

http://susannaforrest.wordpress.com/2011/10/27/neglect-and-the-manhattan-carriage-horse/


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## aintgotnohay (1 November 2011)

GTs said:



			I used to drive a horse and carriage in Boston and thought quite highly of the care the horses recieved. Compared to life on the Amish farm (where our horses were bought form), 9 hours is the city 3 times a week (all our horses were allowed to work) was a vacation.
		
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Amish horses are always driven with those tight overcheck reins which is bloody cruel as their heads are always held up tight and fixed in that position.


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## rhino (1 November 2011)

Post mortem results
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/397/310256.html
Poor boy


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## Tharg (1 November 2011)

SusannaF said:



			I did a blogpost on this and just had a very interesting response, if anyone's curious. It concerns the ASPCA and the fact that their CEO wants to buy the land on which the carriage horse stables currently stand. 

The plot thickens!

http://susannaforrest.wordpress.com/2011/10/27/neglect-and-the-manhattan-carriage-horse/

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   Interesting, I hope they don't win.


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## EstherYoung (2 November 2011)

How very bizarre. Lots of horses have undiagnosed ulcers, particularly stabled ones, and lots of horses have broken teeth. It doesn't kill them, it doesn't mean they are likely to drop dead, nor does it mean they are being: 




			forced to work in spite of painful maladies
		
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If you picked any horse from the general population at random, you'd have a pretty good chance of finding that they had an ongoing tooth problem and/or that they had ulcers. As I say, ulcers are incredibly common particularly in stabled horses, and horse teeth are prone to cracking particularly once they get to 'a certain age'. 

Two of our veterans have had broken teeth - there was no soreness accompanying the break at all, in fact one tooth came out in my hand. Vet was completely happy with both, didn't say they shouldn't be worked, we just had to make sure that teeth rasping was kept up to date as there was no longer a grinding surface to grind the pair on the other jaw down, and if they started to drop weight we needed to move onto sloppy fibrous feed. The vet certainly didn't have any concerns that they were about to drop dead on us.

If the horse looked well, I highly doubt that either the teeth or the ulcers were causing it any problems whatsoever.

SuzannaF, your link is very interesting. The plot thickens......


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## SusannaF (2 November 2011)

EstherYoung said:



			How very bizarre. Lots of horses have undiagnosed ulcers, particularly stabled ones, and lots of horses have broken teeth. It doesn't kill them, it doesn't mean they are likely to drop dead, nor does it mean they are being: 



If you picked any horse from the general population at random, you'd have a pretty good chance of finding that they had an ongoing tooth problem and/or that they had ulcers. As I say, ulcers are incredibly common particularly in stabled horses, and horse teeth are prone to cracking particularly once they get to 'a certain age'. 

Two of our veterans have had broken teeth - there was no soreness accompanying the break at all, in fact one tooth came out in my hand. Vet was completely happy with both, didn't say they shouldn't be worked, we just had to make sure that teeth rasping was kept up to date as there was no longer a grinding surface to grind the pair on the other jaw down, and if they started to drop weight we needed to move onto sloppy fibrous feed. The vet certainly didn't have any concerns that they were about to drop dead on us.

If the horse looked well, I highly doubt that either the teeth or the ulcers were causing it any problems whatsoever.

SuzannaF, your link is very interesting. The plot thickens......
		
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There are some serious shennanigans going on. If you read the link to their retirement home, it alleges that the ASPCA guy/property developer has been staging fake ""rescues"" of retired horses  horses which had already been very well provided for and cared for.


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## christine48 (7 November 2011)

I was in NY last week. I have to say all of the horses look well fed ( bored out of their minds though) They have water troughs and nose bags etc. What I would wonder about is the weight of the carriage they have to pull and the conditions in extreme weather in hight of summer and winter.


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## SusannaF (9 November 2011)

There's been another interesting development.

The vet who said that the horse was neglected has _withdrawn_ her statement and been suspended by the ASPCA.




			But a few days later, the societys head equine veterinarian took it upon herself to issue a correction stating that in fact there was no evidence that the horse, Charlie, was experiencing any pain, that the ulcers he had were common in all breeds of working horses, and that any implication that Charlie was being abused was misleading.

Now the vet, Pamela Corey, has been suspended without pay by the society in the latest volley over the contentious subject of carriage-horse welfare in New York City.

The society declined to discuss why Dr. Corey had been suspended but said it had gone back and forth with her over drafts of its original news release about Charlies death. We believe there are no factual differences between our original statement of 10/31/11 and the one Dr. Corey asked to issue, said Elizabeth Estroff, senior vice president of communications for the A.S.P.C.A.
		
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## Equibrit (10 November 2011)

Check here; http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=327860
you'll find a more accurate version of events.


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## Tharg (10 November 2011)

Thanks for the updates.

  I hope she gets reinstated.


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## Tharg (10 November 2011)

Video detailing stalls and care provided.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXPiZYl3a_o


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## Equibrit (11 November 2011)

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=328281

To: the Editor - The Horse magazine
cc: AAEP President : Dr Bill Moyer
cc: New York City Department of Health - Norma Torres
cc: New York City Mayor's Office - Mayor Michael Bloomberg
cc: City Council Speaker Christine Quinn
cc: Dr Elizabeth Buckles, Cornell University Veterinary medicine pathology deptartment
cc: Eva Hughes & Steve Malone - NYC Carriage Horse industry representatives
cc: Emily Hager, writer for the NY Times
cc: Stacy Wolf , ASPCA
cc: Matt Bershadker, ASPCA

TO: EDITOR, THE HORSE MAGAZINE


RE: http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=19114


Sir/Mme,


Please note that your online article showing the ASPCA's dismissive interpretation of my wife's suspension is not countered by the pertinent facts. Neither is the ASPCA's statement balanced by a counter-statement from the Carriage horse industry. The most important factual omission of your article is regarding Dr Corey's statements that she was under pressure by the ASPCA to "spin" news about any incident involving the NYC carriage horses. The ASPCA has a stated mission to ban the carriage horse industry.


It is important to note here that the ASPCA has an inherent conflict of interest regarding the carriage horses since they are chartered by New York State with Humane Law Enforcement (HLE) over the carriage horses, and, the ASPCA has a stated campaign objective of banning the NYC carriage horses on the basis of their belief that the industry is inherently cruel to horses.


Dr Corey has been placed in the untenable position of being in charge of equine law enforcement - an objective non-political task , and yet, her communications on carriage horse issues are funneled through the ASPCA media department who have the objective of painting the carriage horse industry in the worst manner. The ASPCA is campaigning to ban the industry as an "animal rights" campaign, yet is charged by New York State to carry out law enforcement over the industry they wish to destroy !


Dr Corey freely admitted to signing off on the original press statement about the carriage horse Charlie's death, which she now views as a personal mistake as the result of employer pressure. She later released, on her own authority as the Director of Equine Humane law Enforcement, a corrected media statement.


The corrected media statement was made to correct the original statement, which she felt was misleading. She felt, along with other stakeholders directly involved in the Charlie investigation, that the original statement misled, in an accusatory manner, the public to indict the carriage horse industry in Charlie's death.


In an effort to maintain the scientific objectivity that she is charged with in her HLE position at the ASPCA, she admittedly defied internal ASPCA media policy. It is noteworthy that she was never expressly prohibited by her superiors at the ASPCA from releasing the corrected statement. In fact, her exclusive expert role at the ASPCA in equine issues was reinforced in a telephone conversation with ASPCA VP in charge of the HLE division (Stacy Wolf) immediately before the release of the corrected statement.


Before releasing the corrected statement, Dr Corey provided her superiors with a copy for them to review and approve. Dr Corey's suspicions that she was being pressured to portray ("spin") carriage horse incidents in the worst possible light were reinforced in a verbal statement by ASPCA VP Matt Bershadker. In a telephone conversation immediately prior to Dr Corey releasing the corrected statement, Mr Bershadker asserted on the telephone that Dr Corey did not have the same set of "beliefs" regarding the carriage horse issue. This statement of Mr Bershadker is obviously inappropriate and indicates ASPCA political pressure on Dr Corey, since "beliefs" have no role whatsoever in HLE which is law enforcement.


After the release of the corrected statement on thursday Nov 3rd, Dr Corey respectfully provided full disclosure to the ASPCA. She emailed her superiors the list of stakeholders who received the corrected statement. The following day she was suspended without pay for an indefinite period of time, and with no reason provided.


As part of the suspension Dr Corey was forbidden from communicating with other staff at the ASPCA. Although there was no explicit order in the suspension from communicating with the media, Dr Corey has refrained from communications with the media during the suspension. As her spouse, I have been screening all of her phone calls and informing the media that she was not making any further statements during the suspension.


My wife has been under enormous stress during a long period of time in her position at the ASPCA because of the untenable position she has been put in by her employer. She has also been under enormous stress by being the target of personal attack by the anti-carriage horse protest groups that are perennially & viciously vocal in their beliefs.


One of Dr Corey's greatest fears has been to lose an amount of credibility in the veterinary community as a result of the pressure on her by her employer. I feel that your online story in THE HORSE presents only one side of a very controversial and complicated issue, and as such it is unfair to Dr Corey.


In the aftermath of this controversy becoming public, many veterinarians have expressed support for Dr Corey and her dedication to the truth. However, many veterinarians not familiar with the highly regulated urban carriage horse industry might think she was incompetent if they only read the ASCPA's dismissive responses.




I believe it is irresponsible to print the ASPCA's version of events verbatum, and not present the other side of the story from the carriage horse industry itself. I am copying this letter to the representatives of the carriage horse industry so that you may communicate with them directly and provide all sides of the story to your readers.




I also encourage you to contact the NYC Department of health to get a balanced view of the issue, and I have copied them with this communication as well. It is important to note that the NYC Department of Public Health, who share regulatory oversight of the NYC carriage horse industry, had requested a retraction / clarification of the original ASPCA media statement on Charlie's death. The ASPCA denied them a copy of Dr Corey's corrected statement.






In case you did not see it, please view the link below to the editorial page of yesterdays New York Post which in my opinion covered the issue in a more balanced fashion than the NY Times online article. Neither my wife nor I ever talked to the NY Post journalists. They came up with this editorial through their own research:


http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion...kHxnalD2VJE3kN




Also, please note that NYC Mayor Mike Bloomberg has consistently defended the carriage horse industry against the relentless and hysterical attacks by the animal rights activists. It appears to me that the ASPCA wants to channel the protesters rage against a legitimate industry for their shared ends based on their shared beliefs that the carriage horse industry is inherently cruel. Perhaps this is the time that New York State should consider revoking ASPCA's HLE charter and give it to an agency that can act impartially without bias.




Mike Larsson
Livestock Inspector
Jericho NY
__________________
VP NY Horse & Carriage Association


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## badattitude (11 November 2011)

Because of the horse being made an athlete par excellence, with the extra red blood cells being released by the spleen so the horse is capable of fleeing for long distances I believe it is more prone to heart attacks than many other animals. An adrenalised shock or excitement earlier in life could have produced a weakness that might be undetected for years. I expect many old horses are found dead and have succumbed to this without being observed.
  As for this article, i believe a very famous horse dropped dead for the same cause on Sunday. I am rather surprised the Daily Mail has not printed pictures of this as well. The horse in the photo in this article looks well cared for (no stables stains or ribs sticking out) and clearly the comments are being made in ignorance.


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## Equibrit (12 November 2011)

Interview with Dr Corey; http://veterinarynews.dvm360.com/dv...d/Article/detail/748599?contextCategoryId=378


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## Alec Swan (12 November 2011)

Equibrit,

are the ASPCA a body funded by charitable donations,  as our own RSPCA?

Alec.


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## dunthing (12 November 2011)

The horses are obviously well cared for and I've seen far worse conditions in British riding schools. My daughter's TB had ulcers which had been untreated for some time, before she had him and he looked very poor. Those horses look well covered and well catered for. The ramp out of the stalls would not be a problem for the majority of horses to negotiate. Lots of fuss about nothing.


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## SusannaF (12 November 2011)

Alec Swan said:



			Equibrit,

are the ASPCA a body funded by charitable donations,  as our own RSPCA?

Alec.
		
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That's what I understand from the comment left by a pro-carriage driver campaigner on my blog. Her comment included this:




			In a nutshell: the ASPCA is a behemoth, NYC-based 501(c)3 with $140 mil annual budget, which runs its own private police force, the Humane Enforcement Division. These uniformed officers have summons books, handcuffs, and guns, and enjoy the status of peace officers. They operate at the behest of the ASPCA hierarchy and their donors, as does their overseeing veterinarian. In a classic and stunning conflict of interests, the ASPCA has a stated mission of putting the carriage industry out of business; yes, they are in charge of investigating and monitoring an industry they have sworn to close down.

But it doesnt stop there.

3 years ago, a mega-wealthy real estate developer who has his eye on the properties our stables sit on, created a front group which ostensibly is concerned with the welfare of our horses, NYCLASS, a 501(c)4.

Oh, and the group has a co-founder: Ed Sayres, CEO of the ASPCA.
		
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## QUICKFIRE (12 November 2011)

PETA need to get their backsides over to Eygpt, to see cruelty and exploytation (sp)..of horses.
Those New York carriage horses look in very good condition, I don't agree in the hours they have to do, but they have a job, if they didn't, they would probably be making the journey to Mexico :-(


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## Alec Swan (12 November 2011)

S_F,

I've done a bit of modest research,  and it would seem,  from the ASPCA's website,  that they're heavily reliant upon public donations.  Whether that's their total funding source,  or not,  isn't clear.

What is clear,  is that whilst wearing two separate and conflicting hats,  they have legal powers.  I'm staggered.  Here in the UK,  no prosecuting council  would rely upon the evidence provided by _officers_ who have a secondary,  and presumably influencing bias towards fund raising.  

To your second quote,  and the paragraph which starts..."3 years ago......",  at least here in the UK,  the property developer would be shot down,  a bit smartish, .......or would he?

At least here in the UK,  we have Trading Standards,  Defra and the Police,  who are the only ones able to affect a prosecution.  Can you imagine if the RSPCA were given such powers?  Their generally inept approach would end up in chaos!! 

Alec.


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## SusannaF (13 November 2011)

Scary, eh? Apparently a _New York Times_ reporter has spent eight months investigating this but the story was spiked before the horse died.


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## Trakehner (14 November 2011)

The  woman veterinary recanted her story.  She was pressured to give the party line, the problem was, she knew she was lying and that other vets would expose her.  She finally came forward and admitted she was wrong.

I love where the ASPCA talked of a horse having ulcers as uncommon...over 75% of race horses have ulcers.  They aren't a death sentence.

The ASPCA are an animal rights group who would prefer no horses be ridden, no pets, no dairy and no meat production.  They also hate horse shows.  Their main function is to raise money.  Of course, how generous would the parking lot developer be to a group who freed up lovely property for him....VERY!


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## Janette (14 November 2011)

I was in New York in August, this year, and it was extremely hot and humid.  Our hotel was on Central Park and the Carriage horses 'parked up' along the road side outside the hotel, under the park trees.
The horses were fed and watered regularly.  Yes, they were in the traces for a long time, but not continually working.  They seem to get plenty of naps though......  ;D  They looked to be well muscled, fit and sound.  On average, they would condition score at about 2.5 out of 5.  Lean, not carrying excess tissure, but no ribs on show.
If they looked neglected, people would not charter them so it is the best interests of the drivers to look after thier horses.
I saw some of the stables and they looked clean, well organised and roomy.  (We were walking back from Hudson River to Time square and just stumbled upon them)  

Agree about the condition of horses in Egypt and Asia being in a far worsestate.


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## Equibrit (15 November 2011)

Alec Swan said:



			Equibrit,

are the ASPCA a body funded by charitable donations,  as our own RSPCA?

Alec.
		
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Yes, and their tax return is available to the public;
http://www.aspca.org/about-us/legal...s/about-us/legal-information/form-990-doc.pdf

Some of their fund raising tactics are very misleading too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gspElv1yvc
They don't actually use much of the money to help animals.


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## Equibrit (18 November 2011)

Magazine "Horseback" article;
http://horsebackmagazine.com/hb/archives/12579


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## Alec Swan (20 November 2011)

Equibrit,

thanks for those postings.  Whether the ASPCA covers the whole of the USA,  or it's just regional,  I don't know,  but with assets in excess of 166 *Million* dollars,  I was a little surprised to read that they _care_ for 3000 animals annually!  I'd bet that,  minuscule though the UK is by comparison,  our own RSPCA probably exceed that figure,  by some way,  and without such massive financial input! 

I suppose that if tangible input is kept to a minimum,  then assets are just bound to grow.  If I'm right,  then the ASPCA are morally corrupt.

I enjoyed the input from the stabling film,  and think that their system is very well run.  The amount of actual work which those horses do,  is minimal,  and I'd think that boredom would be the greatest problem.  Those horses employed,  would simply lean into a collar,  or breast plate,  and would barely notice the work load.

Alec.


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## Equibrit (22 November 2011)

CBS LA story on the ASPCA funding scam; http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2011/05/04/is-the-aspcas-tear-jerking-commercial-deceptive/


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## Equibrit (22 November 2011)

Carriage drivers fight back; http://www.dnainfo.com/20111121/man...ivers-association-fights-back-against-critics


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## EstherYoung (22 November 2011)

Thanks for keeping us updated, Equibrit


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## Equibrit (4 December 2011)

Article in today's NY Post;
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/horse_senseless_bVO5D1GhmWLiFT1yJNcnXI


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## SusannaF (4 December 2011)

Thank you! Have added the update.

It's all bizarre. The anti-carriage horse people say the conditions are awful, but the ASPCA monitors them and knows what the standard is, and yet the ASPCA supporters seem to think that the ASPCA doesn't enforce those conditions at all.

It's not even a circular argument.


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## criptic (5 December 2011)

truly sad!


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## Equibrit (6 December 2011)

More drama; http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=332163


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