# Alec Swan - just for you!!



## Rollin (6 March 2013)

Come Dine with Me...today

A diner asks "Tell me is lamb a cow or is it a pig?".  This lady may breed.

I honestly think the govt should follow the example of the Cleveland Bay Horse Society and have a selective mating scheme for people.


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## Alec Swan (6 March 2013)

Whilst we may laugh,  it actually isn't funny,  is it?  That people can be so ignorant about the food that they eat,  is beyond me.  I suspect that the trick is that we need to educate our children,  NOT in the classroom,  but by taking them out into the world,  and at a young age,  when they will look at,  and accept with a shrug,  a dead lamb or a quarter of beef,  hanging in a chiller.  

In France,  of course,  children will accompany their parents to a food Le marche,  where they will see snails being flicked back into the box,  only to start their arduous journey,  once more,  and others to be selected and put in a brown paper bag,  as an hors d'oeuvre,  and they will see freshly and correctly prepared poultry and rabbits,  and the Lord knows what else,  and they will grow up with an understanding;  an understanding which is lacking here,  sadly.

Alec.


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## Clodagh (6 March 2013)

LOL!

When my youngest was about 2 or 3  we were at the farm shop which is attached to a slaughterhouse. I was telling him what all the different cuts were and which animal they came from, we had already walked round the yard and seen the bullocks waiting to go in and so on. A lady in the queue behind me was horrified, how could I tell him that gammon was a pig and so on... bizarre! And tragic.


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## Crugeran Celt (6 March 2013)

There's not much hope for children if an adult doesn't even know what animal they are eating, ridiculous. I have always been up front with our son and he has always been told where and which animal his meat has come from but I have a friend who thought it was horrific that a child should know they were eating an  animal so she never told her children and when they did find out they were horrified and upset. I have always believed in telling our son and let him make up his own mind if he wants to eat it or not. He loves meat and fish and has no problem with what it is even though I am a vegetarian, not because its eating dead animals but because I don't particularly like the taste meat.


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## Sealine (6 March 2013)

This has reminded me of a conversation at the dinner table when my niece was young. We were eating beef stew and dumplings at the time:

Niece: What's in this?
Me: Beef 
Niece: What's beef?
Me: Meat from a cow
Niece: Don't be silly we get milk from cows.  
Me: Yes you're right we do get milk from cows but we also eat cows and their meat is called beef just like pork, ham and bacon comes from pigs.
Horrified Sister-in-law: Don't tell her what it is as she won't eat it!

My niece is now 19, she won't eat roast beef, pork, chicken or turkey but happily eats cheap sausages, doner kebabs, MacDonalds and KFC.


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## Rollin (6 March 2013)

Alec Swan said:





Whilst we may laugh,  it actually isn't funny,  is it?  That people can be so ignorant about the food that they eat,  is beyond me.  I suspect that the trick is that we need to educate our children,  NOT in the classroom,  but by taking them out into the world,  and at a young age,  when they will look at,  and accept with a shrug,  a dead lamb or a quarter of beef,  hanging in a chiller.  

In France,  of course,  children will accompany their parents to a food Le marche,  where they will see snails being flicked back into the box,  only to start their arduous journey,  once more,  and others to be selected and put in a brown paper bag,  as an hors d'oeuvre,  and they will see freshly and correctly prepared poultry and rabbits,  and the Lord knows what else,  and they will grow up with an understanding;  an understanding which is lacking here,  sadly.

Alec.
		
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The Quaker philosophy is that if you educate your daughters, you educate the family.  Educate your sons, you educate your sons.

I am appalled that people who enter a cookery competition, know so little about food.

As for France.  Children here are very well behaved in restaurants, I have see 7 year olds tuck into oysters.  Whereas, children of some of my English friends are very difficult to feed.


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## Crugeran Celt (6 March 2013)

Rollin said:



			The Quaker philosophy is that if you educate your daughters, you educate the family.  Educate your sons, you educate your sons.

I am appalled that people who enter a cookery competition, know so little about food.

As for France.  Children here are very well behaved in restaurants, I have see 7 year olds tuck into oysters.  Whereas, children of some of my English friends are very difficult to feed.
		
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Yes I agree with you but I have taken my son to restaurants since he was very young and he always behaves and sits still, NO RUNNING AROUND, which seems very acceptable to most people in this country, drives me mad!!! He will also try anything and has eaten lots of different foods, not always likes it but will always give it a go. I don't live in France I live in Wales so not all British people are the same.


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## Nickijem (6 March 2013)

I was teaching a class of 10 year olds about food. A girl said to me that she doesn't have cow's milk. Wondering if she had a dairy intolerance I asked her if the milk she drinks comes from goats. No, she replied, it comes from Asda.


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## Echo Bravo (6 March 2013)

And that is why we should either die out as a breed or go veggie at least they may know what a carrot is.


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## Crugeran Celt (6 March 2013)

Its not just meat either, some children come home with my son and they don't know what some vegetables are! And I don't mean unusual ones either. One child asked me what broccoli and swede were as they had never seen it before!! When my son was small and he would come shopping with me we would choose unusual fruit or vegetables every week for him to try. Some he loved, some he never wanted to get again but he was encouraged to try everything. He is now 14 and loves tasting new foods but I think it is very important for all children to know where their food comes from and to be encouraged to try all foods.


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## ClobellsandBaubles (6 March 2013)

I was leading a child out on a ride, we were taking out a group of kids from Sheffield I think, I was happily snacking on the lovely blackberries from the hedge as we went. The children were horrified and were convinced I was going to die and be poisoned so I asked them where they thought blackberries came from and they said a packet!! They also tried to convince me that the sheep in the field were pigs because they were muddy and not white enough (clearly not been near the daz recently).


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## Luci07 (6 March 2013)

Still, as a child, presented with a meat stew with what seemed like a lot of bones, I was highly suspicious. Questioned my mother heavily as to what it was as the family cat was nowhere to be seen. I refused to eat it.

She was caught between a rock and a hard place. It was actually rabbit but she didn't want to tell me that either!


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## YorksG (6 March 2013)

When I was a child I ate rabbit stew, at my grandparents house and shortly after was the proud owner of a pair of rabbit fur mittens. I knew exactly what I was eating and what I was wearing. At our local market the butchers had models of sheep, cattle and pigs on the counter and rabbit, hare and pheasant hanging up.


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## hairycob (7 March 2013)

My father in law used to show rabbits. Any surplus that weren't sold for pets went in the pot. My kids knew & were quite happy to eat bunny stew. Sometimes they even asked which one they were eating. They picked winkles & caught shrimps to eat on holiday etc. But it's strange even though they were brought up the same way 1 will eat anything, but is picky about quality, whereas the other is fussy about what he eats but will eat all sorts of junk.


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## MurphysMinder (7 March 2013)

I saw that girl on Come Dine with Me, frightening.  She also was amazed that cows had ribs!  I have to confess to being a little vague about what my daughter was eating for a while.  After we had seen Babe she flatly refused to eat pork, so for a few months pork became "meat".  She was happy with that, and soon reverted to eating all meat with enthusiasm.


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## joeanne (7 March 2013)

Rollin said:



			I am appalled that people who enter a cookery competition, know so little about food.
		
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CDWM is so not a cookery competition


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## Rollin (7 March 2013)

joeanne said:



			CDWM is so not a cookery competition 

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Smiley face!!!  Can't seem to make them work.


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## Elf On A Shelf (7 March 2013)

I was wandering around at the Highland show a few years ago and got stuck behind a slow moving family. The wee girl was hungry and spotted a burger van so she asked daddy what a Venison burger was. Daddy, much to the horror of EVERYONE around them, answered with - it's a Bambi burger. People couldnt believe that he said that. The kid on the other hand was quite gane for a Bambi burger!


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## kirstys 1 (7 March 2013)

EKW said:



			I was wandering around at the Highland show a few years ago and got stuck behind a slow moving family. The wee girl was hungry and spotted a burger van so she asked daddy what a Venison burger was. Daddy, much to the horror of EVERYONE around them, answered with - it's a Bambi burger. People couldnt believe that he said that. The kid on the other hand was quite gane for a Bambi burger!
		
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## Louise12 (7 March 2013)

We  had a chicken farm close down near us, and on the radio they were talking about the fact that eggs would now have to be supplied from somewhere else. Two young girls in the same office got into a discussion, before one turned round and said to me, 'you'll know this, what's the connection between chickens and eggs?'


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## combat_claire (7 March 2013)

Nickijem said:



			I was teaching a class of 10 year olds about food. A girl said to me that she doesn't have cow's milk. Wondering if she had a dairy intolerance I asked her if the milk she drinks comes from goats. No, she replied, it comes from Asda.
		
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One of my former bosses had volunteered to help at the local country show. He cheerfully approached a young child and her mother and asked if she wanted to find out where milk came from. The mother squawked that their milk came from Tescos and dragged the child off...

Honestly no wonder this country is in such a state. I can remember at school going to watch milking at a local farm, having a lamb brought into the class room and making butter from full fat milk...


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## Rollin (7 March 2013)

I find the ignorance quite jaw dropping.  We are not talking about history, maths, politics - just basic things.  Where does our food come from.

I had to watch tonight's episode where the diner gave her own dinner part, 1940's style.  A lovely and authentic house.  She has a real interest in this period but seemed to think Britain was at war with France!!!!  The delightful commentator said "Actually we were on the same side".


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## kirstys 1 (7 March 2013)

I always thought I was fairly thick, but the more I read of this thread, the more I feel rather superior to a lot of people!!


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## maree t (7 March 2013)

My kids bought a friend back from school who came round and helped feed all of our animals. She then refused to eat pork at home. Her Mum then started giving her "white beef " until she forgot how cute our pigs were.
All bar the pet pigs were for meat, my daughter used to name them sausages, bacon, ham etc. She couldnt wait to enjoy the spoils.


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## Alec Swan (9 March 2013)

Rollin said:



			.......

As for France.  Children here are very well behaved in restaurants, I have see 7 year olds tuck into oysters.  Whereas, children of some of my English friends are very difficult to feed.
		
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Being something of a Francophile,  I've eaten in many French rural restaurants,  and have been pleasantly surprised at the delightful,  and generally unsupervised behaviour of children of all ages.  I don't suppose that they are all such paragons,  but those which I've seen have behaved,  as you might hope that adults would,  with confidence and good manners.

It isn't all British children who behave badly,  of course.  We went to a North Norfolk pub a week or so back,  and there were a couple there with 4 children between the ages of perhaps 2 and 12 years.  They ate,  they chatted away,  there was a deal of laughter,  and I didn't hear one word of parental correction.  It can be done! 

Alec.


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## cambrica (9 March 2013)

This is why, as a family, we love France so much. The kids (3,12,14) are accepted everywhere we go, know how to behave and eat what they are given. 
In the UK it seems as though we are becoming less child friendly. 
On the other hand parents have alot to answer for when it comes to educating their kids on basic food and table manners.
A friend of my son came to dinner, watched me peel and cut up potatoes, coat them in olive oil and cook them in the oven (healthy chips!) then refused to eat them as they didn't come out of a freezer bag 
 If I have a busy day ahead of me then the slow cooker is on by 7.30am - thats it!
Not only that I let my kids cook and they enjoy it. My son made us all Jambalaya the other day and I always leave the yorkshire puddings to my daughter. Every Sunday we sit down to a roast dinner.


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## Suzie G (10 March 2013)

Another conversation around a dinner table involving my small beef farming family and my brothers "townie" girlfriend. Although this was about 30 years ago.


She was horrified to find out that the Sunday roast beef hadn't been bought from a supermarket but had been grazing in our field a few months previously. Promptly threw up and turned vegetarian!


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## Crugeran Celt (10 March 2013)

Isn't it amazing how even an adult can convince themselves that because they have bought the meat from a supermarket they obviously have never been grazing in a field. Where do they think this meat started in laboratory? I do think parents have a lot to answer for, for some reason it seems to be 'normal' to allow children to misbehave in restaurants because that's what children 'do' and for some reason parents also think it's ok to make different food for their child than the meal they are eating because they are children. Never understood that idea. I am one of 6 children and my mum cooked the meals that we all sat down and ate.


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## Toffee44 (10 March 2013)

It scares me that children are growing up virtual stroking animals, yes have seen this happen on a farm open day!!! Apparently horsey was full of germs and horsemans comment about its sterile steam bath this morning didn't go down too well.

And are discouraged from understanding food sources.

My friend runs farming along side urban schools and encourages home cooking, growing veg and understanding where meat comes from and with older children, cheaper cuts, what to do with it and where to find it and the process in which animals are prepared. She has city school kids running a small allotment and selling produce which sounds very rewarding and hopefully setting up some foundations to these kids that have somehow missed out on nature.

I cannot believe there are actually children who have not ventured out of the city areas even though its less than an hour away by train.


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## Bertieb123 (10 March 2013)

Bring back Home Economics to schools!


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## Rollin (10 March 2013)

A few years ago my husband and I visited a state run farm in Luxembourg.  It is the most popular attraction for schools in the Benelux countries.

They have a small working farm with different types of animals and a hostel.  It is also a breedinc centre fro Ardennes which are now, like the CB on the rare breeds list.

The horses plough the land and the children can  learn to plough and to drive a horse in harness.  They learn how to mill wheat, make bread etc.  

I never here anyone hear obsessed with ecoli - by the way.


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## Alec Swan (10 March 2013)

Bertieb123 said:



			Bring back Home Economics to schools!
		
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I agree,  and though this is a shift of axis,  a plea to ALL MOTHERS,  please,  don't do as your forbearers,  and just teach the girls how to cook,  teach the boys too.

I left my home,  when still a child,  and a frying pan was a mystery to me.  As for cooking,  well that was beyond any comprehension.  I muddled by,  I married,  the wife at the time took off,  and the void was unbelievable.  

I was 36 before I was forced,  through necessity,  to learn how to cook a proper meal.  

The current DG taught both of her boys how to cook,  from when they were in their early teens,  and believe me,  they are nifty around the kitchen.

There are still too many mothers who say "Come out of the way,  I'll do it".  Sorry,  but there are.

Far too many men are totally reliant upon women,  without good reason.  I'll accept that the reverse is probably true,  also! 

Alec.


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## Crugeran Celt (10 March 2013)

Bertieb123 said:



			Bring back Home Economics to schools!
		
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I was amazed when my 14 year old son came home to say he was starting to do cookery in school then announced that they were making a 'bacon sandwich' so had to take in a roll and some bacon! It gets better, they were then going to make sausage rolls and had to take in ready rolled pastry and some sausage meat. It's laughable, they take in ready to make cake mixes which they add water and eggs to make the cakes. Luckily my mum is a great cake maker and has taught my son to do it, he makes the best welsh cakes and pancakes. I have taught him the savoury side of things and he makes a great chilli. One day he will make someone a good husband, he hoovers the house too but does draw the line at ironing. I will work on that.


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## 1stclassalan (11 March 2013)

Clodagh said:



			LOL!

When my youngest was about 2 or 3  we were at the farm shop which is attached to a slaughterhouse. I was telling him what all the different cuts were and which animal they came from, we had already walked round the yard and seen the bullocks waiting to go in and so on. A lady in the queue behind me was horrified, how could I tell him that gammon was a pig and so on... bizarre! And tragic.
		
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I haven't kept up with the Law but it used to be illegal to allow any child to see slaughter below the age of...... thirteen I think ... a strange age to choose but I seem to remember it.

I was, of course, slipping bunnies' coats off and generally being an Angel of Death to anything that walked, crawled, swum or flew from a much earlier age and cooking it in the open.


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## 1stclassalan (11 March 2013)

Crugeran Celt said:



			I was amazed when my 14 year old son came home to say he was starting to do cookery in school then announced that they were making a 'bacon sandwich' so had to take in a roll and some bacon! It gets better, they were then going to make sausage rolls and had to take in ready rolled pastry and some sausage meat. It's laughable, they take in ready to make cake mixes which they add water and eggs to make the cakes. Luckily my mum is a great cake maker and has taught my son to do it, he makes the best welsh cakes and pancakes. I have taught him the savoury side of things and he makes a great chilli. One day he will make someone a good husband, he hoovers the house too but does draw the line at ironing. I will work on that.

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Though my mum used to get very flustered by my constant questions and general getting in the way out in the kitchen - I learned how to do most stuff early - almost precociously! So by the time she had my baby brother at home when I was ten and a bit - I cooked the family's entire food for a week including making her an iced birthday cake with confectioner's custard cream filling - all from basic materials. 

I never did pursue a career in cooking but could have easily done so I think and to my father's eternal credit - this despite being hugely bigoted, homophobic and partly fascist with very set opinions of "proper" jobs for boys - he actually encouraged me and said "the best Chefs in the world are men son." That was just before he complained about some of his food being cold so it wasn't all junket!


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## TrasaM (11 March 2013)

I grew up on a farm in the west of Ireland and virtually anything with fur feathers or fins was eaten. My brothers entertained themselves in winter by trapping snipe curlew blackbird and thrush. Last two taste delicious btw. I would sit and watch big brother strip and clean rabbits and my mother never worried about chopping off the heads of hens or ducks while we watched. Oddly however I was not allowed to watch cows give birth. Must have though it would lead to akward questions don't know if my lot would be quite so happy about doing same but they will eat just about anything and Bambi is our favourite


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## YasandCrystal (11 March 2013)

MurphysMinder said:



			I saw that girl on Come Dine with Me, frightening.  She also was amazed that cows had ribs!  I have to confess to being a little vague about what my daughter was eating for a while.  After we had seen Babe she flatly refused to eat pork, so for a few months pork became "meat".  She was happy with that, and soon reverted to eating all meat with enthusiasm.
		
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Gosh that really is frightening that not only can someone over the age of 8 years old be so stupid, but also so disinterested in the world and nature. 

My hubby (a farrier) once had an owner ask him what the stuff was coming off the sole that he pared with the knife - she honestly asked 'is it plastic' ? Any horse owner that believes their horse grows plastic should be sent back to school for 10 years. He loved that one - she surpassed the stupidity test 

I agree with young children one doesn't want to emphasise that it's a 'lambkin' or 'piggy' they are eating


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## Holding (11 March 2013)

My aunt is the absolute worst for that kind of thing. I think her eldest son (14) now knows where meat comes from, but when he was ten we were in the supermarket and after looking suspiciously in the meat aisle, said "isn't it funny that chicken the food and chicken the animal are the same shape?" We all had to pretend to be amazed at the coincidence.


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## lazybee (11 March 2013)

The trouble is that big food companies and supermarkets have taken away our contact with the food we eat. You can't really blame the parents, it's not their fault if they grow up in that environment. The same goes for teachers, they don't know either; millions have lost touch. There are a couple of generations in Britain who've been brought up on processed food Birds eye, Pot noodle, Bisto, Spam, Findus, luminous green peas frozen pizzas the list is endless.

When I was younger Dad had loads of chickens and bred rabbits. We grew up with him regularly using the kitchen table as a butcher's bench. Me and my sister used to chase each other with chicken feet, pulling the tendons to make grabbing claws  
I now live in France and rear a few ducks for the table. In France it's quite normal for people (young and old) to prepare your own. My neighbour keeps a couple or pigs for home consumption. In my area I occasionally see a handmade sign propped up outside a house "Pig killed today". My youngest Daughter went over to one of her friend's about a month ago, they all sat down to wild boar heart casserole. Things like this are just part of every day life in France and no way considered 'a bit odd' or a novelty. They are much closer to their food. It was like a home coming for me. I assume it was like this everywhere in the UK not so long ago.


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## frostyfingers (11 March 2013)

On a visit to the farm shop, my youngest aged about 5 pointed to the dear little pink piglets and asked "how long before they're bacon?"  The butcher and myself laughed and told him, the lady in queue behind drew a sharp breath and gasped "oh no!".  I was really impressed with him actually!


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## mirage (11 March 2013)

When my girls were toddlers,they were helping us feed the cade lambs.Sadly,one had died so I told the girls what had happened,hoping we wouldn't have tears,and the eldest said 'Are we going to eat it'. There wouldn't have been much on it.

My youngest is very proficient at plucking pheasants and isn't too squeamish to drop the crayfish she has caught into a pan of boiling water.

My mum tells me that when I was small,I opened my gran's fridge and was surprised to see milk in bottles.I asked why her milk didn't come from cows, like ours did.I didn't drink bottled/pasturized milk until I started work.


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## Serenity087 (11 March 2013)

When I was very small, my Dad used to come home with dead things and make them into food.  My parents, tried to shield me from this reality and would send me to bed before he did anything to them.

It was only when they caught me climbing out the window to watched, aged something like 4, they gave in and let me play.  I've been cutting up internal organs of animals ever since.

It's amazing how many people I can put off meat for life by pulling out a dead animal and turning it into food.  But I say to them, if you can't start with an animal and end with something a supermarket would sell, you have no right to be eating it at all.

Harsh, but I think this thread proves what happens when you don't!


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## lpeacock (11 March 2013)

One episode of come dine with me a man asked what mangy tout was...

It was mange tout!!!! I now call it mangy tout as found it so hilarious, although have recieved strange looks from fellow shoppers when discussing it with OH.


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## windand rain (11 March 2013)

If you had asked my 3 year old granddaughter what her favourite meal was she would have replied dead lamb and tatties. Now she is 10 and still knows what her food is and where it comes from. Grandpa milks cows for a living now


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## Louise12 (12 March 2013)

Alec Swan said:



			I agree,  and though this is a shift of axis,  a plea to ALL MOTHERS,  please,  don't do as your forbearers,  and just teach the girls how to cook,  teach the boys too.

I left my home,  when still a child,  and a frying pan was a mystery to me.  As for cooking,  well that was beyond any comprehension.  I muddled by,  I married,  the wife at the time took off,  and the void was unbelievable.  

I was 36 before I was forced,  through necessity,  to learn how to cook a proper meal.  

The current DG taught both of her boys how to cook,  from when they were in their early teens,  and believe me,  they are nifty around the kitchen.

There are still too many mothers who say "Come out of the way,  I'll do it".  Sorry,  but there are.

Far too many men are totally reliant upon women,  without good reason.  I'll accept that the reverse is probably true,  also! 

Alec.
		
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This is so true (for both sexes). My mother was professional and over zealous housewife, who wouldn't let us near the kitchen, and we were all useless (male and female) when we left home. Best advice I got was that children love to help, and not to stop them (which we tend to do because it's easier to do it ourselves).


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## s4sugar (12 March 2013)

Crugeran Celt said:



			I was amazed when my 14 year old son came home to say he was starting to do cookery in school then announced that they were making a 'bacon sandwich' so had to take in a roll and some bacon! It gets better, they were then going to make sausage rolls and had to take in ready rolled pastry and some sausage meat. It's laughable, they take in ready to make cake mixes which they add water and eggs to make the cakes. Luckily my mum is a great cake maker and has taught my son to do it, he makes the best welsh cakes and pancakes. I have taught him the savoury side of things and he makes a great chilli. One day he will make someone a good husband, he hoovers the house too but does draw the line at ironing. I will work on that.

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Same here -My son spent his first two hour session on milkshakes - mixing branded powder & milk and another session on sausage rolls as above. 
I refused to supply ingredients after those lessons as we could not eat the products (intolerances). I was told they did not have the equipment or resources to cook from scratch so I wrote out and gave them some recipes and worksheets they could use which would allow techniques to be taught. Pastry is easy & cheap to make and jam tarts from scratch easily fit in a lesson -if they don't have tart tins make jam pasties instead or use apple slices. 
Of course it helps if the teacher has any clue.
As a helper I took in salad produce and we made salads - many children had never seen a lettuce.


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## Bertieb123 (12 March 2013)

A few weeks ago I was putting a chicken in the oven when our 3 year old daughter asked what I had done to Albert (Albert is our cockerel) explained it wasn't Albert, was amazed myself she knew that the dressed bird was a chicken, she alway's helps me in the kitchen also helpins look after animals, and watches me gutting and dressing Game. She would put some adults to shame


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