# Can't catch my horse? (desperate for help!)



## vikkiandmonica (25 May 2010)

Although I have seen many of these posts, and the advice given, I really am at a loss as to how to catch my retched horse! 

Bit of a background: Wings is fabulous to catch in winter, and in fairly nasty weather, but once the weather improves, I cannot get near him. He is definitely the leader of his herd, so it is very hard to join up with him and prove that I am the boss, as obviously, he believes he is the boss. He does have a couple of stallion tendencies, as was gelded at 5 years, but other than that, is really quite a chilled out gelding. 

Food - doesn't work, he is very much not a greedy horse, and although it attracts him over to you, it is not enough to let you catch him with. He is very, very intelligent, as in, senses even tiny body movements, so will happily eat from your hand, until you make a slight movement, and then he will not come near you for the rest of the day. 

Unlike a lot of horses, he is not particularly curious, in that, if I sit in a field all day, even if the rest of his herd come to investigate, he will keep his distance. He is also a tease, as in, rather than running from one end of the field to the other, he will canter in circles around you, and then if I sit/stand still, he will come right next to me and eat, but any attempts to catch him, and he will walk away from me. 

I have tried the chasing him round and round, but it doesn't work, as he doesn't seem to tire at all. Have tried walking away from him when he walks away from me, which doesn't work either. Have even tried feeding all the other horses carrots but him, and although he will look at me intently, he will not come over to me. 

Monica is turned out with him, but even removing her from the situation does nothing to tempt him over. Feed buckets do, but obviously, by the time he has eaten the feed, it is too late to get him in and ride him. I have also tried just bringing him in to feed for a while, but once the riding begins, he goes back to running away. 

Can anyone help me? I really am at a loss as to how to catch him. Putting him in a smaller paddock away from other horses is impossible, as is fencing off an area of the field he is in to try and teach him to catch, as he is the sort of horse that stresses out easily, and would probably just jump out. 

What is annoying, is that is almost came on overnight. Saturday, I caught him fine, and then Sunday, I managed to get him, but the leadrope over his neck, went to put the headcollar on, and he buggered off, despite me trying to pull the lead rope to stop him, but he was far too strong for me. Monday, I managed to catch him after taking Monica and my sister's horse out, and feeding them in view of him, so brought him in and fed him, but today, he came over, took some feed, and didn't come near me again. Went slightly later on, same, if not worse. 

Can anyone help me? If I could even catch him, just once, I could put his field safe head collar on, but I really can't get near him. IMO, he is just too clever for me, and I have never met a horse as bad as catching as him. (oh, and he is not scared by any means, just a little s**t who thinks he knows best (well, not little, a 16.2hh beef cake of a s**t).

Oh, and cornetto ice creams for anyone who got this far and can help me


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## xRobyn (25 May 2010)

You have just exactly described my boy to a T!

He doesn't care when I give treats to the rest of his herd, or ignore him, fine by him he ignores me too  He also never runs away, instead he trots in circles around me and tosses his head because he thinks he is funny 

I've tried catching him and releasing straight away, catching and treating, catching and grooming then releasing, catching and feeding then releasing etc, it all just depends on his mood. Sometimes he will walk straight up to me, other times I can't get near him for love nor money, but I NEVER leave the yard until i have caught him. I once spent nearly 3 hours chasing him around a 30 acre field 

Be interesting to hear the replies, I hope you catch him soon.

ETA: what normally works with my gelding is to NEVER let him stop. Once he decides to run off, that's it, he's not allowed to graze, drink or poo until I catch him!


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## vikkiandmonica (25 May 2010)

Gah! They are so annoying! I mean, one day he'll catch, then it's like something switches in his brain, and he refuses to catch? It's so annoying though, as over the weekend I was only going to bring him in, groom, feed and turn out as it was hot, and did that, and now that it cooled down, so would have thought he would want to come in more, and I want to ride, he won't come near me 

Edit: thanks for that, will definitely try that tomorrow, as have no exams, so a pretty much free day, bar revision


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## Coffee_Bean (25 May 2010)

Sounds awful, I would say it is one of the most infuriating and frustrating problems  The way I used to get my mare was by getting the other horses out of the field, and then making her keep moving. I used a lunge whip to keep her going (not actually hitting her) but I did not let her eat. If she did I would send her on again. Takes a long time at first, but once he learns you won't give in, hopefully the time will get less each time.


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## reindeerlover (25 May 2010)

Is he scared of electric fencing? We had an old argie polo pony who we couldn't catch and it would take 3 people all holding a 100 meter long strand of tape to pen her up in a corner of the field , then we'd all gather it up, making the pen smaller until she realised that she was captured and didn't put up a fuss. Wouldn't work if pony ust barges through though- ouch


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## Coffee_Bean (25 May 2010)

Oh, don't know if this is an option for you, but if I knew she had to come in early, so was going to be difficult, I would put her into a small section of fenced off paddock on her own, about the size of half a 40x20 menage maybe, so it was a lot easier than chasing her round a massive field


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## Troylimbo1 (25 May 2010)

If you can get close enough to put a lead rope round his neck could you not just leave a headcollar on and just quickly clip it on?


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## RuthnMeg (25 May 2010)

Arhh, poor you. I have no other advice Iam affraid....Why don't you practice lassooing?? LOL


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## vikkiandmonica (25 May 2010)

Thanks for the posts! 

Farrierlover - yes, he is scared of things like that, but he can get stressy, so I would be worried he would injure himself trying to escape from it, which he probably would, and he is also very nippy for his size, so would probably be able to escape from any gaps, or just over a fence 

Coffee_Bean - yes, that may work, if the farmer/YO would let me fence off an area, however, I'm unsure if he would stress out or not, and he would have to be fenced off within the field he is already in, which would probably stress him out, and he would probably therefore jump out. 

Troylimbo1 - the fact is, I haven't been able to catch him today, and did yesterday, but then didn't have a field safe head collar with me, but the next time I catch him, it will be put on, however the way he was today, he would not let me attatched the lead rope before buggering off, and if I managed to hold onto the headcollar, I'm not sure he wouldn't just run off and take me with him

Ruthnmeg - You have no idea how tempted I am...


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## wellsat (25 May 2010)

Can you turn him out on his own? Daisy was always easier to catch when she was on her own.


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## tinkandlily (25 May 2010)

WOW  what a problem, i have solved this problem many times but havent seen one this bad.Mabe you try just sitting on the gate with his feed a couple of times stroking his neck, then try and sneak the rope around, because you've been stroking neck and not done anything before he might not notice it, or mabe not giving him anything untill hes out then put him back, you might have to bring him in to feed for a few days then ride him then feed him for a few days, hopefuly he wont see a pattern and come thinking its tea time. I worked with a horse who was almost this bad and and i chased her round for a day, not letting her eat just keep running, untill she went in the field shelter,( you could try it in a stable) to her give her a treat and walk away, i did this untill she stayed put and waited for me, then i walked up and put the headcollar only on her nose and gave her a treat then took it off, then again when she was still i put the headcollar on fully gave her a treat then take it off, after i did this she never ran away again. Sorry its so long, i have done it so many times it hard to write down the best answer without seeing him.


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## vikkiandmonica (25 May 2010)

tinkandlily - Thanks for the advice, however, he is the sort of horse that knows that once I come with a feed, he is getting the feed, and then will let me put his head collar on, as knows he won't get ridden, but even taking an empty bucket doesn't work, and sometimes he won't come over until the feed is on the floor, and I have walked away, but once his face is in it, he lets me catch him. To be honest, today I was just so fed up with him, I went for the whole, "you don't come in, you don't get fed", and just hoping he gets hungry and comes tomorrow, however as said, he is not greedy, and too intelligent for his own good. 

absolute diva - lucky you for having the facilities to do that! There is nowhere where I can do that, so he would always be in site of other horses, with horses walking past him etc. or fenced off within his field, in which case he would just get seriously stressed, jump out, and I would have no chance of catching him


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## thatsmygirl (25 May 2010)

The only thing that works for my mare is taking all the other horses out the field ( they are all mine) and come in for dinner so I leave her till last and go up and stand by the gate watching her gallop round shouting her head off. After 5 mins she walks in fine but would never catch her else. Is this possable for you? Depends how many horses he's out with but bet it would work


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## CBFan (25 May 2010)

I would try fencing off a corral around the gate area with electric fencing. just an area about 5 - 10 metres square... open it up when you go into the field and use his feed or a carrot or whatever to bribe him into it and once you have him in there, close it behind him and you SHOULD find it easier to catch him. id you do do this, make sureyou use the tall electric fencing posts and use multiple strands of tape / rope so that he can't jump out.

not being funny or anything but can he hear the headcollar jangling as you go down the field... a mare I used to look after would leg it if she could... used to have to hold all jangly bits and sling it over her neck quick and catch it the other side..


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## Chestnuttymare (25 May 2010)

Love your description of him lol.
mine has done itr once and never did it again. It was first day in big summer field and she thought, yeah right!
I kept her on the move, never let her stop to graze. I also told her in no uncertain terms what an ungrateful cow she was and how she would have come to a horrible end if I hadn't got her and all i wanted was an hour or so of her time etc, you get the picture. Anyway, she was kept moving and kept moving til she got really peed off at everyone else grazing and she couldn't and eventually she came towards me. I turned and walked away from her and she kept following. She hasn't ever done it again. Not sure if it was the chasing thing or all the sh11tty things I said made her feel guilty lol.
Hope you catch him as there can be nothing worse.


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## vikkiandmonica (25 May 2010)

Monsters - can't really take all the horses out, as some of them basically live in the field all the time other than the weekends when they get exercised, so there isn't really the option of removing all the horses. 

CBFan - there used to be a section off, and he would come into that, but that was winter, and once the summer came around, he didn't come anymore, and it was taken down. There is a strip between the field, so I can open the gate and let him come through if he wants without him running away, and once he's in there, he catches easily, but very rarely does he come through without me bringing him, or Monica and Casper being removed from the situation, and even this isn't working. As for the jangling, it could be, but I tried today with just a leadrope, so no noise, and that didn't work either. 

chestnuttymare - will definitely try this when I have enough time, although as I said, he has so much will power, in honesty, more than me, and isn't greedy, so I think I would have to keep him going and going for days, but will still try this.


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## Enfys (25 May 2010)

vikkiandmonica said:



			Troylimbo1 - the fact is, I haven't been able to catch him today, and did yesterday, but then didn't have a field safe head collar with me, but the next time I catch him, it will be put on, however the way he was today, he would not let me attatched the lead rope before buggering off, and if I managed to hold onto the headcollar, I'm not sure he wouldn't just run off and take me with him
		
Click to expand...

_When_ you do catch him and get the halter on him leave a catch rope on it too, just 12" long should be enough, then you'll be able to grab that. Does he give up as soon as the rope is on?

Most of you will throw your hands up in horror at this, I am not suggesting to do it in a field, but with all my horses that are not trained I leave a 8' rope on their halters in a small paddock. NOT because they are bad to catch, they aren't, but it solves the problem if they are,  but it trains them NOT to panic if they step on a rope (or reins), to think for themselves, that if they just lower their heads to take off the pressure and move a foot they'll be fine.


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## vikkiandmonica (25 May 2010)

enfys - Yes, once the headcollar and leadrope are on, he gives up, lead rope round neck, runs off, just head collar, probably will run off too. But yes, once the lead rope is on the head collar, he doesn't try to run away. 

As for the bit of rope at the end, I will definitely remember that, so then he might think the rope is one, and not bugger off


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## Gingerwitch (25 May 2010)

I had an arab like this as a kid.... he was kept on over 200 acres of land..... que Easter holiday pony round up......

Basically we would with the help of many - get him cornered and that was it he was stabled for the summer and did not go out until September.

Autum would arrive and he would wait at the gate to come in, or you could jump on his back and ride him down the field - no head collar or anthing.

Same happend every year and we had him for 7 years


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## vikkiandmonica (25 May 2010)

Thanks for that Gingerwitch, but he barely likes being stabled in winter, only does as he gets pumped full of hay, and I don't think there would be any chance of keeping him in all summer without his brains blowing!


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## mik (25 May 2010)

You have to keep him moving until he gives in and comes to you as suggested above. So he associates coming to you as the end of work and a nice cuddle, wash off or apple.  You must never let him get the best of you. 
I so agree with enfys about the catch lead, and them learning not to panic if they step on it.
If he tries to run off even when you have him, you need a long lunge lead, and make the running off into a lunge session. 
He sounds like a little b£gger. 
Best of luck. 
Can anyone else get him? Is it just you?


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## vikkiandmonica (25 May 2010)

Yeah, I may try the walking after him, and he comes to me the best, as he definitely trusts me more than anyone else. Some people won't even get close to him. 

As for the bit of rope, how long do you think it should be?


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## Spot_the_Risk (25 May 2010)

Bleedin' horses!  Mine lives out 24/7, I can catch him first or second go through the colder months, but he goes much more 'feral' once the weather warms up.  I can't offer any advice (I sometimes have to bring the other two horses in out of his sight, which I know you can't do) but have some virtual sympathy from me, it's so frustrating, gah!


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## Gingerwitch (25 May 2010)

vicckiandmonica - i really do not know what is worst a horse you cant catch or a horse you cant load... and i really really feel sorry for you BUT you appear to have tried everything the nice way and i am afraid if he were mine i would either be moving him to a tiny paddock with 6ft fencing or he would be stabled all summer.

The only other things I can suggest is - on mass round up for a few weeks - but you will be surpised how high they can jump, make a funnel in the field with some electric tape or you could tether - which i abhore or hobble - again which i abhore or take up some lasso lessons or get a traquilizer gun !

poor you - they are bloody horrid at times ! -


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## vikkiandmonica (25 May 2010)

Yeah Spot the Risk, I sympathise with you too, big style!

Gingerwitch - yes, he is a little bugger in both senses, but the loading I can handle, almost, as he does eventually load, and at least if he catches, but doesn't load, I can still ride him, but not catching, well, I can do sweet FA with him. I do understand where you are coming from by stabling all the time, but somehow, I can't bring myself to do it, as I would prefer a happy, little **** of a horse, than a depressed, stressed out horse, especially as he windsucks (yes, the problems go on), so if he got too stressed out, it could lead to colic, and he windsucks much, much worse when stabled. Thanks for the help though


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## DuckToller (25 May 2010)

I'm not sure I have understood the feed bucket part - do you mean you can catch him with a  large feed, but then you can't ride after because he has eaten too much?

At a feeding lecture I once went to with a major well-known feed company, the woman nutritionist said that it's a myth that they need an hour after to digest a short feed, unless you intend to gallop miles.  She said hard feed only stays in the stomach for 20 mins then moves into the hind gut, so unless you have to feed him several large scoops to get near, then I would not overly worry about feeding and riding - by the time you have groomed, fiddled about and tacked up, and walked the first half mile, that's a good 30 minutes gone anyway!

But if you didn't mean that, then ignore this post as it's no use at all to you. 

I am going down to do my horses now, to avoid the flames coming my way


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## vikkiandmonica (25 May 2010)

No flames headed your way, in fact, that helps me a lot, as I always worry after catching him with feed, that I cannot ride or risk him getting colic! Thanks for putting my mind at rest, and will definitely try and bribe him with feed, and walking him round the field until he runs out of energy/will power


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## DuckToller (25 May 2010)

Since that lecture I have not worried about giving a scoop of feed and then riding, and he is still going strong, although I don't canter straight away.  

I have one uncatchable pony too but I can get the rest in and he follows on his own, which is no help to you but I sympathise.  I once turned him out and the farrier turned up, I had to apologise and rebook as no way on earth would he have come in straight away.

One last thought -  could you make a small pen near the gate with electric tape, with an opening, and tempt him in it with feed, if necessary feeding the others the other side of the gate, then leave him eating and do up the tape (you can buy proper handles so you don't have to switch it off and on) and only once he is in the smaller pen try to catch him properly?  Mine always gives in once I have got him, but he is a native pony so much more led by his stomach


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## vikkiandmonica (25 May 2010)

Well, there is a gate I can open to let him through into a section between his field and another, but he tends not to come through, as he knows I have caught him if he does. The problem is, unlike most horses, he is really not food driven at all, and only really eats his feed from the field if it is put down and me walked away, and then I basically have to crawl up to him.


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## benrolo (25 May 2010)

I can so sympathise with you, my daughter's new horse was a bit like this, over the easter holidays she went up every day with carrots or apples and then polos, didn't look at him and didn't walk directly to him, he gradually learnt that her approach (from the side) meant a treat, she'd pat him and leave. This means she can now feed him a carrot with one hand and snap the lead rein on with the other.  However he is a bit stressy so we've also put him on magnesium and that seems to have kicked in now.  He will come out of the field to get his feed and we put his head collar on while he's eating, this makes him easier to catch if she is going to ride him the next day as although he's improving we still wouldn't be able to get a head collar on him if he was loose in the field.   Cornering him didn't work - he tried to jump the hedge!
As for the feeding question, when you do endurance you have a feed stop during the ride to keep the horse's energy levels up.
Good luck.


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## 07801rusty (25 May 2010)

Hi, i took on one of these wild ponies of a mountain and i could catch him until he learnt what i was doing so now i have to be clever, so when he runs off i turn away and give attention to my other horse and then i move towards the wild pony slowly but backwards and not giving eye contact or going head on, i dont know if that helps haha


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## treacle_beastie (25 May 2010)

How annoying! When mine starts playing this game, I also go with the whole keep on moving games - if she is rude enough to walk away from me when I try to catch her then she can bloomin well keep on moving away from me until she is willing to come to me.  I push her until she stands still or turns slightly towards me and I encourage her to come to me - if she turns away I send her away, if she comes up I let her come to me and then try and catch her, If she pulls away and turns again, i repeat the process and send her away. Sometimes I turn my back on her completely and she just follows me back to the gate but most times she just gives in and comes up to me to be caught. 

now she is not normally bad to catch and usually comes to call so when she does this the process only takes about 10-15 mins max so if your boy is bad to catch this may take a while but surely he would give in eventually! 

I wouldnt try and trick him - it wont work -make sure you are not aggressive in your body language when you are inviting him to come to you - dont stand square onto him staring at him or shouting at him as he wont come to you!  

when you do finally start catching him again I would work on getting him to come to call and accept the headcollar being out on - even if you only lead him a little way give him his dinner and release him it should work eventually - dont give up and sorry if you have tried all this before and i'm waffling rubbish!  Good luck


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## MrsT (25 May 2010)

Monica I completely sympathise with you on this one...  Nothing worse than a horse that doesnt want to be caught.  

I bought a little 15hh cob mare in Feb this year and it was only when I got her to the livery yard that I realised I couldnt catch her.  I tried a bucket which she same happily for but the minute she saw the headcollar she would take off.  When I tried putting a lead rope around her neck she would spin and run, trailing it out of my hands.

It often ended in tears as I got that frustrated and angry.. the even trotted off one day and rolled!!  The icing on the cake was when we got some unexpected snow, it was pelting down and I was soaked wet through and freezing.  She was shivering and miserable but still wouldnt let me catch her.  Took me almost 2 hours that day.

Luckily she has now settled and and I can catch her no problems without a bucket though I always like to have a treat of some kind for her.

Im sorry that I cant offer you any advice on this but I do share your frustrations.


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## Ashf (25 May 2010)

We had this problem with Jessie when we first got her. She was turned out into 60 acres of interlinked  fields and woodlands on the side of the biggest hill in Gloucestershire along with another 20 horses and ponies. When we went to catch her a couple of days later, she wouldn't have any of it, and ducked and dived through the herd to keep away from us. Eventually we had to get about a dozen people off the yard split her from the herd and corner her well away from the herd at which time she just gave up and let us catch her which took about 2 hours, and it took about 6 months before she started to trust us enough to be caught without any agro (she still can play a game from time to time, but we just walk away and try again 15 minutes later)

I'd say you have to split him from the herd and not let him back to them. he needs to know he isn't top horse when you are around him and this will tame time and patience. Otherwise he will just make a game of it and your life a misery when there is plenty of grass in the fields. I'd turn him out in a headcollar as well - you can get field safe ones as said above from Robinsons.


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## moosehunter (26 May 2010)

Ok, so my mare is the same, really hard to catch. tried food (nicks it and runs off), waiting in field (too busy for this charade), etc etc. She's ok if nother horse is coaxed in first with a bucket then neither caught, just ushered in through the barn door or allowed to walk in themselves. 
But, everyone's set up is different but this has worked for me in most places:

Pick as short a run of fence as possible 

carry your headcollar/rope (pref long eg lunge line) in your hand.

let horse walk to one end of stretch of fence. flap rope on leg once to turn horse

horse walks/runs to other end of fence, you beat it to the other end, flap rope to send it back the other way and so on. 

Send it back and forth and eventually it will slow down, lower head and chew. relax a bit now, sending it on more slowly back and forth.

he knows he needs to be caught and will give up- stand and chew. 

then walk over, stroke all over and rub with rope (desensitisation) and catch. 

this process gets quicker because if you are relentles and don't give up he will submit quicker each time. 

now i flap the halter once and my mare goes and stands to be caught.

If the horse can outrun you to end of stretch of fence and then bezzes off round field, throw rope to to turn him (if quicker than you running) or use two people at first. 

Good luck and don't take his behaviour personally- the horse isn't doing it to offend you, he just know's he's clever and is trying his luck.


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## Bjutschilp (26 May 2010)

I know this problem, too, and I got a good hint from a westernrider.
After a wild-chase he told me to throw small pebble on his croup ...
... and wonder !, he stood still and I was able to put his halter on !
The rider told me, that the horse is stunned and felt being caught at this moment !
It really works with my horse !!!


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## NeedNewHorse (26 May 2010)

QR(ish)
Do you have any idea why he doesn't want to come in?
x


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## Weezy (26 May 2010)

he is the sort of horse that knows that once I come with a feed, he is getting the feed, and then will let me put his head collar on, as knows he won't get ridden
		
Click to expand...

So put a scoop of chaff in the bucket and let him think it is his feed   Really it is a bit of a myth about feeding/riding.  No one worries about riding their horse from the field, but people panic at the thought of riding them after a small feed!

Also how long do you try for?  You must NOT let him stop, you must NOT let him graze, you must NOT let him take his attention off you...he runs, you keep him going, and I don't mean for 5 mins and give up, you do it for as long as it takes, but you have to be strict, if you let him stop or graze for even a second you are back to the beginning!  Good luck 

We have one that the owners sometimes cannot catch, yet because I have chased her round before I can always walk straight up to her!


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## Bjutschilp (26 May 2010)

My horse starts playing tag when his herd is out on the grass and the weather is to good to leave it, in his opinion, I suppose ! 
And when Jubilar (his herd mate) wants to run around, too.

PS
And I only throw one very small pebble at his croup, of course ...


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## BentleyBelly (26 May 2010)

Have you considered getting one of these guys in to help.....

http://www.intelligenthorsemanship.co.uk/content/view/47/97/

We used one for problems with my friends horse and his spooking and it was only £30 an hour...might be worth an email to see if they have any ideas?


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## aquamarine (26 May 2010)

I'm feeling your misery. My mare is, in the main, fine to catch. But when she has one of her days, she's exactly the same as your guy and despite being a gut-bucket, is unmotivated by food. I swear she's so intelligent that if I'm wearing jods, she won't be caught, so I wear jeans. If I've been away for a couple of days, she won't be caught as she's sulking. Last week I walked up and down the field for two and a half hours, with no joy. The next day, it was like all is forgiven, we're quits. Bloody horses, wouldn't  swap her for a million quid


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## vikkiandmonica (26 May 2010)

Wow, can I just thank everyone for all of their replies, and i'll try not to miss anyone's advice out 

07801rusty - I have tried ignoring him, giving everyone else attention, and then standing very still for him to come and see what I've got, but he doesn't come over, he just grazes with the other horses, and walks away from me, never coming over, as he is not greedy 

treacle_beastie - thanks for that. I have tried making him move and move, but only for about an hour, as then I just gave in, but will definitely try and stay out for longer. As for the coming to call, the annoying thing is, is that when the weather is cold, or it's winter, he will canter down the field to me when I call him, but once it gets hotter, and there is more grass, he takes no notice of me... Well, he'll look at me when I call him, and then go back to eating 

MrsT - thanks for that, it does sound like I'm in the same situation as you were 

Ashf - I have tried getting him away from the herd, but it isn't a possibility to section an area off for him to go in, and plus he would get stressed and just jump out. As for the walking and stopping him going back to the herd without fencing an area off, he is so unbelievably nippy and quick, that it is very, very difficult to do that, and he really doesn't give in, as even once he is cornered, he'll still run around the area, and try to escape, and there are not many people at the yard I'm at who would stand their ground. 

moosehunter - thanks for that, I will try it, but it is a fairly wide field, and he is really clever in that he will run for any available exit, so it may take 2, or even more of us. Also, flapping the lead rope does sort of work, but at the same time, sometimes he won't change direction, but just run along the fence line and back into the main part of the field. 

Bjutschilp - hmm, never heard of that before! I will try it, although I'm not sure he wouldn't just run off? Guess it's worth a shot anyway 

Weezy - thanks for that, I will definitely remember that about the feed. As for how long I have chased him away for, about an hour, as then I gave up, and ran out of time

EllieBelly1 - I've never actually thought of getting someone in to help, but I guess if all else fails, that is a very good plan, thanks!


Thanks for all the advice given, will be trying this out today!

Edit: missed the last post. 

aquamarine - it is exactly the same as Wings by the sounds of it, although I wear jods even if I'm just feeding, so not sure if that could be why. It's so frustrating though, because he gets hay when brought in, exercised, fed and then turned out again, all in the space of a couple of hours, and I mean, it's not like he gets locked away for hours on end each day, he stands there with Monica, eating hay, then gets ridden, then gets put back with Monica for the feed, and gets turned back out with his herd!!


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## vikkiandmonica (26 May 2010)

Well, managed to catch the bugger today, after coaxing him through the gate and into a slip between 2 fields, which took about 45 mins in itself, and I was about to put the head collar on (as in over his nose), and then two horses galloped past him, and he followed. Must have taken me a good 15 mins after than tempting him to come and explore the feed bucket and eat his feed, letting me stroke him with my hand and the head collar. Put the field safe head collar on, and have added a little bit of bailing twine to the bottom of it, not long enough for him to stand on, but enough so that I can grab that to catch him, without having to grab the actual head collar. 

So thanks for the help, and if he doesn't catch tomorrow, I'll resort to the keeping him walking, although I tried today, and really couldn't, as he decided to gallop from one end to the other, eat, wait for me to come and get him, and gallop back to the other end


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## CBFan (26 May 2010)

I'm glad you managed to catch him! Just keep doing the same for the next couple of days and then maybe get him in for a ride at the weekend and give him lots of fuss and a bucket of feed just before you turn him out again! 

Keep us posted!


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## vikkiandmonica (26 May 2010)

Thanks CBFan, and yes, think I will just get him in tomorrow, and Friday (vet coming out), and feed him before he goes out, and give him carrots at the entrance of the field, and then prehaps ride at the weekend, just in time for half term


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## FFF (26 May 2010)

Crazy question but do you wear your riding gear around him. If I am wearing my jods, abbey asscoiates this with exercise and sometimes doesnt catch.

So now I just pop out like normal as if to check her (so in joggers/pjs etc) and grab her then  x


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## vikkiandmonica (26 May 2010)

Yeah, I've also heard that advice FFF, but I wear the same clothes whether bringing in to ride, or just feed?


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## LaurenM (26 May 2010)

You have also described my boy down to the bone haha! I have tried so many things that I could literally write a book!

I only catch mine by seperating him from the majority of the mares and by not letting him stop. I'll then walk to the gate where the others are and encourage him to follow - or I'll walk behind guiding him.

Definately leave a halter on. Mine had the field safe off 2/2 times so I gave up! 

When he gets close enough to you, move your hands around and then back off. I keep repeating this so that he understands just because my hand moved doesn't mean I'll lunge at him! 

I also guide my horse where I want him in the field to keep him moving by increasing and decreasing the pressure - i.e. as soon as he goes where I want him I'll back off and I tell him to keep going but when he stops I'll test how ready he is to be caught by walking towards him in a circular angle and if he won't stand I'll ask him to walk on.

Ultimately I think for me it's down to lack of trust and stubborness (sp) so I always try and remain quiet and positive. As soon as I get stressed he knows and won't come near!

How long have you had your horse? I've had mine a whole 3 months!


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## vikkiandmonica (26 May 2010)

Thanks for that, that does makes sense about guiding him, however instead of walking away from me, he canters/gallops circles around me, crazy little bugger. 

I've had him for 2 years now, came to me really quite nervous, spooky, and we didn't get a bond for a long time, however now, well, I think the bond we have is really pretty strong, especially as we had to overcome some of his fears. He trusts me with so much, like, if he spooks at something, such as, for example, these black mats put down in the wash basin, you could see he didn't want to step on them, but did because I went on, whereas he wouldn't have done that last year. 

It is so annoying, because he trusts me, and it really seems to be him being a d**k head over anything else, which makes the whole thing harder, especially because he is a very intelligent horse, too intelligent for his own good I think haha.


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## vikkiandmonica (27 May 2010)

Well, a bit of an upsetting update from me. 


I tried the walking him round and round thing for about an hour and a half, before eventually having to leave it, as have to revise for exam tomorrow, and because he looked in no way to be giving up, as even though he was doing the chomping/licking, whenever I turned away from him, he didn't take any notice and definitely didn't come over to me.

Managed to get him into the strip between the two fields (with feed), and all was well, put on the field safe head collar (which he had gotten off yesterday, and happily let me put it on), and he was happy with me touching him, so went to put his normal head collar on, got it over his nose, and he buggered off down the strip, jumped the electric fence, and started playing with the horses in the other field. He then refused to let me catch him, despite him having no way out, and he looked as though he was going to barge me out the way, so I let him through. He then stood at the entrance to the strip, cantering alongside it (electric fence gate type thing), and when my sister went to open it, he galloped away, and then galloped back to the gate, which he galloped through, and then into his field (gate was also opened by sister), and he galloped round for about 5 mins, until I put Monica back in the field.

I must admit, I am at a loss, he seems to be completely out of control, has no respect for me, and seems to go to any lengths to not be caught, yet doesn't seem to be afraid?

Will be asking YO for help tomorrow, as I don't see what else I can try anymore, and he is quite clued up on how to deal with these situations 

PS: at least he has his field safe on, which will hopefully stay on, and I've attatched a little bit of bailing twine to it, not enough for him to stand on, but enough for me to grab on to, so hopefully this will help me catch him tomorrow


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## Queenbee87 (27 May 2010)

Sorry to hear this. Bloody horses- one step forwards and two steps back! 

Can't add any more advice- the suggestions I would offer have already been made.

Good luck though!


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## danielle23 (27 May 2010)

I think with your trying and giving in as you have run out of time, he will be classing as he has won again,
What i would do is not do anything until you no for sure you have all day if needs be! and be consistant only try when you have loads of time? Sometime what takes and hour and half one day may take 3 hours the next atempt?
I also find the turning your back and bodylanguage is upmost important!
Good luck hope you get sorted soon!


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## Ashf (27 May 2010)

vikkiandmonica said:



			Well, a bit of an upsetting update from me. 


I tried the walking him round and round thing for about an hour and a half, before eventually having to leave it, as have to revise for exam tomorrow, and because he looked in no way to be giving up, as even though he was doing the chomping/licking, whenever I turned away from him, he didn't take any notice and definitely didn't come over to me.

Managed to get him into the strip between the two fields (with feed), and all was well, put on the field safe head collar (which he had gotten off yesterday, and happily let me put it on), and he was happy with me touching him, so went to put his normal head collar on, got it over his nose, and he buggered off down the strip, jumped the electric fence, and started playing with the horses in the other field. He then refused to let me catch him, despite him having no way out, and he looked as though he was going to barge me out the way, so I let him through. He then stood at the entrance to the strip, cantering alongside it (electric fence gate type thing), and when my sister went to open it, he galloped away, and then galloped back to the gate, which he galloped through, and then into his field (gate was also opened by sister), and he galloped round for about 5 mins, until I put Monica back in the field.

I must admit, I am at a loss, he seems to be completely out of control, has no respect for me, and seems to go to any lengths to not be caught, yet doesn't seem to be afraid?

Will be asking YO for help tomorrow, as I don't see what else I can try anymore, and he is quite clued up on how to deal with these situations 

PS: at least he has his field safe on, which will hopefully stay on, and I've attatched a little bit of bailing twine to it, not enough for him to stand on, but enough for me to grab on to, so hopefully this will help me catch him tomorrow
		
Click to expand...

In the Herd, a horse is either below or above. There is no level ground. It sounds like he sees you as below him, and is treating you with the contempt a 'lower horse' earns. 

If you haven't got time to see it through, don't start the process as you will just reinforce his view that he can get the better of you.

If I'd have not caught him then, I would have gone back 20 minutes later and tried again, and I'd have not allowed him to rejoin the herd at all.

You have to be more bloody minded than he is !


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## _MizElz_ (27 May 2010)

I dont know if this will be of any use (someone may have posted it already, I'm not sure!) But having experienced the same issue with my mare this week, I think I have just about cracked it. 

Yesterday I went out with a reel of electric tape and a couple of stakes, and without stressing her or giving any indication I wanted to catch her, I simply walked calmly around the field setting up the fence (without pulling it tight) whilst she grazed. I stayed well away from her, so she didnt think I was even trying to make eye contact with her. I then pulled the tape taught once I had it secured to the main fence posts, so that it formed a square with Ellie inside it. She remained calm until I went back to get her headcollar from the gate - then she started charging around! So rather than stress her by trying to catch her, I simply began to make the paddock smaller and smaller, reducing the size until she physically could not turn around quick enough. Eventually she came to a halt and I was able to catch her - she was very peed off though!

It took a while, but I 'beat' her at her own game.....for the first time in 10 years! I've never tried this method before, but I will definitely be using it again. Obviously it wouldnt work if your horse is likely to go through/jump electric tape, but if they do respect the fence then I think it's an option worth trying! It's my new saviour for sure!


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## haras (27 May 2010)

My arab mare does this.

Like yours, only sometimes though,when you can't get near her at all, even with a headcoller on.  Not food orientated and runs circles. other times she is yours straight away.

When she runs circles I never ever look at her or encourage her, I just stand still and look down and whats interesting is her circles seem to get smaller and smaller and then I usually find she will come and stand near (ish) to me.  I still stand still and ignore her, as now she wants my attention.  I wait, so she comes closer and eventually she will have her chin on my shoulder.  I still ignore her.  Then eventully I walk off.  and she follows me.  at this point I will turn around and she wants attention, so I praise her and catch her.

It can take a while, but it works for me.


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## Umbongo (27 May 2010)

I haven't read through all of the replies, but my friends pony was like this.

When she did catch her she got turned out in a small paddock, 6ft electric fencing, head collar and a catch rope attached, still could not catch her. We tried herding her up into a corner and she tried to jump the fencing got tangled and injured.

The ONLY thing that could get her in was if someone else did it. The owner would hide, and someone else on the yard got her in perfectly fine. Could someone else try for you?

Not saying that your horse might not like you!! But this mare was not interested in food and associated its owner with riding 

Hope you find a way to catch him!


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## Brownmare (28 May 2010)

Just a thought but you say he was fine to put the fieldsafe headcollar back on but not the normal headcollar and you can go up to him but not catch him. Why not try different types of headcollars i.e. ones that do up under the throat / over poll / rope halter etc.

My old pony wouln't let me near him if I went up to his head but I could catch him if I went up to his back end and picked up a hind leg, then a front leg, then got a rope on the headcollar......


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## daveismycat (28 May 2010)

Goodness me, I do sympathise.  My mare has always been awful to catch except for now *touches wood*.  And even now I don't take it for granted!

I've lost count of how many lessons etc I have missed because I couldn't catch her, and how many times times she has reduced me to tears.  Once she was out for several weeks in a massive feild at a livery yard with 20ish horses for several weeks without anyone being able to get near her.

We've tried EVERYTHING over time.  Living on her own, living with others, out in a starvation paddock (she is a fatty anyway), chasing her round to try and join up, taking a feed bucket etc etc.  Before, even if I did get near her she would rear and pull back as soon as I went to touch her head collar.  Nightmare!

In desperate situations, the electric fence tape trick has worked so long as she is on her own and in a fairly small area anyway.  For a while last year she was great at coming over every evening for a token bit of grub (Baileys Lo Cal is a godsend), standing at her gate to eat it and then be released straight away; couldn't get near her at any time other than dinner time though!

I'm not exactly sure what has changed now but a number of things are different.  Since December she has lived on the estate where we live and my husband and I will often randomly just pop up to the horses to check on them without the pressure of her being caught, often we will take up some apples and carrots for them but not catch them.  If she wont come up to us for a treat she misses out, but that doesn't happen now she knows whats going on.  Shes out 24-7 in 30 ish acres all year round with a nice herd of 3 mares and 3 geldings.  She is the only one in regular work.  I can randomly turn up now and so long as I have a carrot and I hide her rope on approach, I can feed her carrot and while she's chewing clip her rope on so she can't really see.  When she comes in, she is ridden, fed and released again.  I think she hated being stabled.

Back in January she was being a git to catch in the bitterly cold weather and a foot of snow, and three other people (including an animal behaviourist who owns the estate!!) helped me chase her round for a couple of hours, not letting her back with her friends, and not allowing her near the hay at all.  Knackering, but it eventually worked, and was made easier by having more people and one person who really understood what was going on and could properly guide us.  I think that 'session' had a big impact on how she is now.  Oh, also, I try not to have an 'expectation' when I approach her; I'm sure I used to think '****, I'm never going to catch her', and she would pick up on that, and would turn and run!

It is now lovely to be able to catch her when I want on my terms, although I don't take it for granted and I've not been brave enough to remove her leather headcollar yet!

Hope something that I've said helps, and hope you find the answer for you.  It really is THE most frustrating thing!


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## zippo (28 May 2010)

This may sound unkind but you have to make the horse depend on you,bring him into a box or yard and leave him there,no food or water.Then and this sounds awful but the only food or drink he gets is from you,holding the bucket or feeder and allowing him to take what you want to give him,when you leave so does the food and drink.this takes a great deal of time to start with but they soon learn to associate you with giving food etc and should start coming to you,then you should be able to catch him before you feed him and hold him while he eats.No catch,no food,it does work but takes patience,never grab at the horse but allow him to approach you.


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## brucea (28 May 2010)

Well Zippo - that will make your horse trust you and want to be with you won't it? Probably not!

So many suggestions and no one has addressed root cause here. Bluntly, catching is always a relationship issue - it's about who has the authority in the relationship.

There are probably two issues here. Please don;t get upset, this is not having a go at you, just asking you to look at it from his perspective.

One is  is a leadership issue - he is more dominant than you are and you are not leader of his "herd of two". You need to get into a leadership position so that following you is the natural thing to do, and you need  to get very good at a strong send and a strong bring back. There is a lot of good horse body language to learn from both Mr Roberts and from Parelli. For example you can learn the "come with me" body language.

_(Yes the dreaded P word, and you can always choose to dismiss it if you want, but honestly I know lots of folks who practice this seriously and none of them have any trouble catching their horses. Quite the opposite - their horses catch them! 

In fact I sneak up to the field to get my 3 horses and never call for them because if I do then I spend half an hour tamping down the divots from them galloping down to the stables!!! )_

So important starting points are friendly games, learning to move from steady pressure and then rythmic pressure, driving him from you and bringing back - these are all things that horses do to each other to establish dominance and herd hierarchy - and if you learn them you will be in a better position to be his "leader in the herd of two".

The second issue is that it is simply not worth his time coming with you - oh, it certainly is in the winter when he wants the food, but at this time of year why should he come for a bucket he doesn't need, and to be made to work? Far more fun to be out larking about with his mates!!! 

So you need to find things to do with him that make him feel that you are WAY MUCH MORE FUN to be with than the other horses. This may be initially just going for a walk in hand finding interestin gthings to eat and spending time together. It may be learning some groundwork games and finding out which ones he likes, and what his personality is. Does he like the games when he has to do a lot of movement or the games when he has to really think?

I have a cob that will play very advanced games online or at liberty, and a ginger TBxID gelding that thinks that doing a figure of eight round two traffic cones for 15 minutes is just so much fun (and has been seen doing it himelf in the play field when turned out) - different things appeal to different horses. Simple games like carrot stretches will combine fun with agility. And always lots of praise, and genuine warmth towards him.

Hope that helps...


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## vikkiandmonica (28 May 2010)

Thanks for all the advice! and as for the lack of time, I thought I would have time, but by the time I had chased him round the field, and sorted out the 2 other horses, I really had run out of time, and believe me, I know he had won once I left. Today though, I will be there all day, so will chase the little bugger for all that if needed. 

As for the taking the electric fence and cornering him, I cannot see that working with him, purely because when he had no where to go in the strip, he jumped out instead of just standing and letting me get him. 

For the stabling with nothing, I can't see how that would help, as surely, when he did get turned out, he would just be even worse, remembering that he was locked in a stable when he did catch?

Yes, I know he thinks he is above me, but it is really difficult, as he is the leader of his little herd, and as was gelded quite late at 5, he has some stallion tendencies, and doesn't respect anyone, as doesn't feel he should, as I think he thinks everyone is beneath him. Will be asking YO for help with this today/tomorrow though. 

As for the head collar, I have tried doing it up normally, undoing the underneath and slipping it over his head, using my other horses (which is black, his normal is red), and tbh he is no different with any of these, he just lets me put his nose in, then once he realises I'm going over his head to do it up, he buggers off. 

With the games, he enjoys them when I do mounted games, and gets really excited, and that is both lots of movement, and thinking, so will have to think of some games. 

It's annoying, because if he was a little pony, it would be ok, but he is a bit of a 16.2hh beef cake, and is too big to be stupid


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## Ashf (29 May 2010)

brucea said:



			Well Zippo - that will make your horse trust you and want to be with you won't it? Probably not!

* So many suggestions and no one has addressed root cause here. Bluntly, catching is always a relationship issue - it's about who has the authority in the relationship.

There are probably two issues here. Please don;t get upset, this is not having a go at you, just asking you to look at it from his perspective.

One is  is a leadership issue - he is more dominant than you are and you are not leader of his "herd of two". You need to get into a leadership position so that following you is the natural thing to do,* 

and you need  to get very good at a strong send and a strong bring back. There is a lot of good horse body language to learn from both Mr Roberts and from Parelli. For example you can learn the "come with me" body language.

_(Yes the dreaded P word, and you can always choose to dismiss it if you want, but honestly I know lots of folks who practice this seriously and none of them have any trouble catching their horses. Quite the opposite - their horses catch them! 

In fact I sneak up to the field to get my 3 horses and never call for them because if I do then I spend half an hour tamping down the divots from them galloping down to the stables!!! )_

So important starting points are friendly games, learning to move from steady pressure and then rythmic pressure, driving him from you and bringing back - these are all things that horses do to each other to establish dominance and herd hierarchy - and if you learn them you will be in a better position to be his "leader in the herd of two".

The second issue is that it is simply not worth his time coming with you - oh, it certainly is in the winter when he wants the food, but at this time of year why should he come for a bucket he doesn't need, and to be made to work? Far more fun to be out larking about with his mates!!! 

So you need to find things to do with him that make him feel that you are WAY MUCH MORE FUN to be with than the other horses. This may be initially just going for a walk in hand finding interestin gthings to eat and spending time together. It may be learning some groundwork games and finding out which ones he likes, and what his personality is. Does he like the games when he has to do a lot of movement or the games when he has to really think?

I have a cob that will play very advanced games online or at liberty, and a ginger TBxID gelding that thinks that doing a figure of eight round two traffic cones for 15 minutes is just so much fun (and has been seen doing it himelf in the play field when turned out) - different things appeal to different horses. Simple games like carrot stretches will combine fun with agility. And always lots of praise, and genuine warmth towards him.

Hope that helps...
		
Click to expand...




Ashf said:



*In the Herd, a horse is either below or above. There is no level ground. It sounds like he sees you as below him, and is treating you with the contempt a 'lower horse' earns. 

If you haven't got time to see it through, don't start the process as you will just reinforce his view that he can get the better of you.

If I'd have not caught him then, I would have gone back 20 minutes later and tried again, and I'd have not allowed him to rejoin the herd at all.

You have to be more bloody minded than he is !*

Click to expand...


Ahem !  lol

I didn't mention the body language bit, but we don't ever approach ours face on as they see that as a confrontational approach, and if they turn to walk away, we turn away from them and don't square up to them.


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## [59668] (29 May 2010)

This is a weird option, but has worked on my lad.

As soon as he sees I have the halter, sometimes he won't be caught.

So I dump the halter by the gate, and do whatever I need to to allow me to get up beside him - normally a scoop of feed.

Once I'm beside him I start scratching up his neck, and then "put on" and invisible halter, complete with tying invisible knots, and then leading with the invisible leadrope over to the gate.

Then I can put on his regular halter, cos he thinks he's already "caught"

Weird, I know!!!


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## TPO (29 May 2010)

Only read OP so am probably repeating some of the things that have been said.

You've described my girl to a T! 

Bascially what I would suggest is doing whatever you can to catch him as a "quick fix" just to get the field safe on him with some twine attached so you have something to hold onto in the future.

When my girl is being impossible it's just a case of walking her down. It took 5hrs one day...

I was at a Richard Maxwell demo/lecture weekend at the start of the month and asked him as like you I've exhausted every idea and suggestion with no joy (although she is better once field safe is on: I can get close enough to almost catch her before she goes off on one so with the twine on the halter I can hook a finger round it and then once she feels the pressure she stands for her actual halter). 

Max suggested walking down; even if it takes all day. Basically the horse has 2 options; the hard one and the easy one. The easy option is to stand and be caught; the hard option is to be kept moving. So basically if your horse won't get caught then keep him moving; you're in charge. 

Think I've missed a big step out.... Firstly walk him down even if it takes all day and get field safe on him. Bring him in for feed/groom/fuss even though if you're anything like me you feel like killing them and have already mentally written out the for sale ad!

He should hopefully be slightly easier to catch with field safe. Spend time doing ground work for a couple of weeks. I'm not a "p" person or into this "natural" stuff but what Max teaches/talks/writes is, to me, just good common horse sense and good horsemanship. So spend 10-20mins a day doing circling exercises getting him to move his quarters/shoulders and circling. It's all explained much better in "Unlock your horse's talent in 20mins a day" by Max. 

This then gives your the "tools" to move him in the field. Keep him changing directions and making it uncomfortable not to be caught. 

It's not about join up or any of that; it's just training and respect. 

I'd found methods of catching my mare but they could be touch and go. However after putting Max's advice into action I can now catch her without a fieldsafe. It took 15mins last weekend to catch her but that's nothing compared to the normal time scale. Now I can keep her moving and if she wants to run about then fine she will and she'll change direction/speed/circle size when I say and only be allowed to stop when I say. Her reward is being caught.

I can now walk up to her, she backs up 3 or 4 steps and I can fling (literally) the rope around her neck and pop her headcollar on. I don't hide the headcollar or have treats, it's plain to her from the minute I open the gate that she is going to be caught. She can get carrots once she's in her stable. 

It's made a massive difference and is a much more enjoyable experience going to get her in!

I'd perhaps also look at why you're horse doesn't want to get caught to get ridden. Has his saddle fit changed with the spring grass, is he bored of schooling etc etc. There could be a million and one things but if he's ok(ish) to get caught for a fuss but then changes when in work there must be something that seems like a valid reason not to get caught if that makes sense?

I highly recommend that book and speaking to or posting on MAx's forum for him to answer or seeing him in th flesh at any demo/lecture as it just gave all his written stuff a new dimension actually seeing it done.

Good luck; I know how frustrating it is!


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## itsme123 (29 May 2010)

You have every ounce of my sympathy. 

I've got two hoolying round a ten acre field (they broke out!) and the worst to catch has lost his headcollar... 

I get near him and he just gallops off. 

We're herding him in today hopefully (only day we could get hands on deck!)


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## now_loves_mares (29 May 2010)

Llewelyn said:



			I'm not sure I have understood the feed bucket part - do you mean you can catch him with a  large feed, but then you can't ride after because he has eaten too much?

At a feeding lecture I once went to with a major well-known feed company, the woman nutritionist said that it's a myth that they need an hour after to digest a short feed, unless you intend to gallop miles.  She said hard feed only stays in the stomach for 20 mins then moves into the hind gut, so unless you have to feed him several large scoops to get near, then I would not overly worry about feeding and riding - by the time you have groomed, fiddled about and tacked up, and walked the first half mile, that's a good 30 minutes gone anyway!

But if you didn't mean that, then ignore this post as it's no use at all to you. 

I am going down to do my horses now, to avoid the flames coming my way 

Click to expand...

I'm totally with you on this one! It's actually recommended to feed before riding for horses with ulcers (Alfa based feeds). Maybe not a massive cereal feed, but a good bucket of fibre is no different to the fact he's been stuffing his face with grass imho. Anyway, it's his own fault 

I had one that used to do the circling around you, so I used to pretend I was lunging him. He'd float round in beautiful trot circles, so I'd start using voice aids, make him canter, trot, canter, trot, then waaaalllk. And eventually "and staaannnd" and the eejit would halt and wait for me to catch him


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## vikkiandmonica (29 May 2010)

Thanks for that. I've now worked out how to catch him, and it is tempting him into a smaller, fences of section between his field, and the other. Because it is a much smaller space, and he is away from "his" herd, he catches faster (despite jumping out 2 days ago). Feed does work, surprisingly, and I've left a head collar on, so he should be easier to catch. As for not wanting to be brought in and worked, I have not idea why he doesn't, as we always seem to have a good time, and he always has his ears pricked etc. and I don't school masses and masses, sometimes jump, hack or do fast work, which he enjoys. I think it's just that he's feeling good about himself. 

As for the circles, I have tried that, as though I was lunging him, and using the voice commands, however it didn't really seem to work. I guess he'll just have to live in his head collar until he starts respecting me, and I will definitely be doing some exercises to get him to respect me. 

Thanks for all the ideas


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## now_loves_mares (29 May 2010)

That sounds like progress! Good luck


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## vikkiandmonica (29 May 2010)

Thanks. He's weird though, because once he is caught, he is happy as larry (despite being jabbed by the vet yesterday...), so there is really no reason for him not to catch. Weird horse, think I'll just leave his head collar on for a while, do some ground work, and then start riding after the exams are over


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## welshied (29 May 2010)

How old is he? 

My 3 year old is exactly the same he comes running in winter but in summer you have no chance. I did a bit of join up with him last year and he did improve but then this year he is as bad as ever. 

I tried him in a narrow long strip of grazing and then i would just have to walk behind him and chase him to the gate and that worked really well and eventually he learned to come in but even now if i were to walk up to him in the field he would still run off but he is 70% better hes getting broken in soon so i am hoping he might get a bit better there either that or they will be ringing me up every day to come and catch the little monster


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## vikkiandmonica (29 May 2010)

He's 11, so not like he's going through a stroppy teenager stage or anything!


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## Haniee93 (31 May 2010)

Hey i know your problem, the horse ive loaned for 2ish years and a few at the stables i work at are wise to every trick in the book.
This may sound mean but have you ever tried just leaving him out and ignoring him? Obviously check him in the field to make sure he is ok but if he doesnt come to you or he doesnt let you catch him then just leave him.
I spent 1/2 hour trying to get my girly in and she just cantered round me and wouldnt let me near her at all!! 
i just left her with no rug on and no dinner and funnily enough the day after when i went to get her in she was waiting at the gate and couldnt wait to get in!! 
It might sound like they are winning by you leaving but really if you can make him want to come in then you have won, if that makes sense:S!!
I dunno it might work it might not, but good luck, i know how stressful it is!!!


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## LaurenM (31 May 2010)

I had a bad day today so understand your frustration! I couldn't get near my boy because one of the mares was in season and he was literally attached to her. She was cantering around setting the other geldings off and I couldn't steer her into a different field.

I'm considering keeping him in for a night next week just for him to be ready for the farrier in time the following morning   

On the plus side though - I did have a nice hack yesterday and even got sun burnt!

Just stay positive and don't let him see that you are frustrated - trust me I know that it can be easier said than done!


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## TarrSteps (31 May 2010)

I agree with much of the advice on this thread re sectioning off an area and/or "walking the horse down", making the caught experience pleasant (if a horse suddenly becomes difficult to catch without a reasonable explanation it's worth looking into physical/stress related causes, although I know that's not the case here) and generally using the principles of negative and positive reinforcement (which is what ALL good training systems are based on, regardless of what label gets hung on them) to teach the horse that getting caught easily is both the path of least resistance and the more profitable way to go.

That said, one point on the social order theory that a horse will allow itself to be caught by a "dominant" horse . . .  Leaving aside that we now know herd dynamics are not that simple at all, there is no guarantee that a horse will welcome the advance of a horse higher up the order than itself, in fact it can be quite the opposite!  Obviously, if the higher ordered horse makes ANY aggressive move, even just eye contact, the smart lower ordered horse will get the heck out of the way.  And, with training, it will learn to STAY out of the way of a higher ordered horse, just in case.  Not that it will leap away in fear - that's not how ordered, stable herds operate - but that it will be mindful of the other horse's space and expect to yield to it.

The exception is its horse "friends", the ones it practices mutual grooming, fly swishing, food pile sharing etc. with.  Their contact will be actively sought out and anticipated.  

I am not advocating any particular path with this, just pointing out the possible inaccuracies in applying what has become a very simplified version of fitting people into a horse herd.  Horses do know we're not horses.   I agree that we have to explain things in horse language - hence the success of walking a horse down, as it's one of the methods horses use with each other - and understand why and how horses communicate as they do, but we also have to remember we ask them to do many things that are not "naturally horsey" so it's not always so cut and dried as "do this and the horse will do that".  However attractive that idea might be. 

The fact is, like most things with horses, they are "taught" to be caught so early and so thoroughly that they don't know "no" is an option.  But every now and then you get one that either gets taught the opposite or just figures out that there is no profit in being caught.  They are very very frustrating as you can't "explain" much to a horse that won't let you near it!


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