# Laminitis a plea from me to everyone, soak hay.



## amandap (3 February 2010)

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After having read yet again of a vet recommending restricted unsoaked hay for a horse with laminitis I feel I have to start my first thread to get on a soap box about this!!!!

Please, please, please all of you soak hay and probably haylage in the acute attack. Free choice soaked forage is essential imo!

There is absolutely no way of telling the sugar content of grass, hay or haylage without having each batch tested. Sugar content of feed is one of the main contributary factors in laminitis whatever the actual 'straw that broke the camels back' 

So if you suspect laminitis, call your vet and please box your horse on deep shavings (4ins) whether shod or barefoot, (shavings mould to and support the sole and frog) give free choice hay/haylage soaked for a minimum of one hour preferably 12 hours. If horse is overweight then do not restrict forage find ways to slow intake down such as small holed haynets.

No grass or treats such as carrots and no heavily mollassed feeds. 

If a horse isn't responding then consider soaking the hay twice in a change of water and contact a metabolic expert.

Sorry to go off on one but horses are suffering unnecessarily due to this one simple (though it may be inconvenient for owners!!) measure often not being taken! Soaked hay is harmless but unsoaked can be a matter of life and death to be blunt!!

I'm just an owner not an expert but having had a pony with laminitis and read many,many, many stories now, I am convinced that soaking forage is the most important single thing you can do to help. 

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## Dogstar (3 February 2010)

Good advice. I gave my laminitic soaked hay and she recovered thankfully; back to normal work. However, a lady down the road had two horses with it and fed them unsoaked haylage- both had to be PTS.


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## amandap (3 February 2010)

I'm sure soaking forage isn't the only answer but imo it's worth it.

I have contacted admin as some are uncomfortable with my post.


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## Dogstar (3 February 2010)

Really?? I thought it was standard, uncontroversial advice!? My laminitic has had unsoaked hay ever since she recovered and has been fine, but anything to lessen the sugar intake of an animal with active disease must help surely?


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## Stoxx (3 February 2010)

You actually need to rinse the hay after it has been soaked.


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## amandap (3 February 2010)

Lol, I'm getting muddled as I posted this on soap box first by mistake and I'm replying to posts on there!


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## Flicker (3 February 2010)

Can you soak haylege?  Our yard cannot get hay at all at the moment and it would be good to know if haylege can be soaked, just in case (god forbid!) I need to.


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## amandap (3 February 2010)

Yes you can soak haylage if you ned to.


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## Flicker (3 February 2010)

Same way as you'd do hay?


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## amandap (3 February 2010)

I believe so. Tbh I don't feed haylage but I know others have soaked it the same way.


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## Flicker (3 February 2010)

Thanks - it is good to know.


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## TGM (3 February 2010)

Just be aware that recent research from the Laminitis Consortium shows that soaking is not always enough to bring hay sugars down to a safe level.  Link to an article on the subject here:

http://www.horsetalk.co.nz/news/2009/07/047.shtml

Initial studies on hay soaking were done on chopped hay in a large volume of water and indeed did result in sufficiently reduced sugar levels.  However, the Laminitis Consortium has done its recent studies on long hay, as this is what most owners feed.  It discovered that even after prolonged soaking (16 hours) only a few of the samples came in with less than 10% sugar.

This is what the LC recommend:

_"Our current advice is that ideally you should analyse your hay before feeding it to an animal at high risk of laminitis and choose hay with the lowest water-soluble carbohydrates content you can find.

"Soaking hay provides an additional safeguard but should not be relied upon," _


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## _HP_ (3 February 2010)

Just to add...old hay is not always the answer either.
Last year I bought year old hay as I thought this would be better but it was still as potent as ever. I did soak it and it did make a big difference.
I bought late cut hay this year and can feed it unsoaked although I do still soak it most of the time.

As TGM says...if in doubt get it analysed although I weightape at least every few days to check and adjust intake accordingly.

If you need hay that lasts longer try and get some stalking rougher type grass that needs more chewing..


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## amandap (3 February 2010)

Thanks for that TGM, I haven't seen it before.

I don't think soaking hay is to be fully relied on, of course not, laminitis is as has been said a complex condition and each horse is an idividual with individual tolerances and ways of responding. Obtaining hay that is less than 10% NSC (non structural carbohydrate) or equivalent, is the best way to go I agree. 
I do however think for the majority of owners soaking hay is the best first step... many do not agree it seems, but I personally think it's a measure that should be recommended as most owners aren't able to get every batch (from the same field source) tested which is what is required to be certain of low sugar hay.


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## pottamus (3 February 2010)

Yes, I had the hay off my field tested when my lad came down with laminitis - it was mature stalky grass that was cut and this is apparently the worst type as when the grass becomes mature and more stalky, the sugars are stored easier! My hay tested at 10% NSC &amp; sugars and D&amp;H who did the test even commented in the report that it was not hay suitable for laminitics at all...so it does pay to test it.
My lad will not eat soaked hay at all so that was not an option so I had to ration his hay and feed dry upon vets instructions.


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## teddyt (3 February 2010)

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There is absolutely no way of telling the sugar content of grass, hay or haylage without having each batch tested. 

[/ QUOTE ]

This is very true. The same goes for straw, which many people recommend but it also has variable sugar content.

The research TGM referred to compared 9 samples of hay. Some of them were similar hay just from different sources. i.e. 2 of the samples were mixed meadow hay. One had 13.3% wsc and one had 17.5%. This shows the variation.

After 16 hours of soaking, between 9 and 54% of wsc was lost, again a huge variation. yet one sample of hay lost 9% in 20 minutes!

Interestingly it was organc hay that had the highest wsc %, at 23%. All of the hays tested had over 12% wsc to start with though. And many hay samples have less than this. But the only way to know is to test it! 

Soaking does remove some wsc, so its worth doing but just as important is testing the hay to see what wsc content it has before soaking and aim for hay that is as low as possible in the first place.


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## amandap (3 February 2010)

Here's an article by Kathryn Watts (USA). Some people question her research but then I believe all research is questioned.
http://www.safergrass.org/articles/sugarinhay.html


Yes, I believe straw can be very high in sugars too, another reason for a shavings bed.


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## brighteyes (3 February 2010)

Apparently, many of the tests on residual sugars in soaked hay, were done on _chopped_ forage - not the long stalked stuff we normally feed here in UK.  Less of the sugars leach out in the case of the long-stalk hay, so soaking for longer/changing the soaking water mid-soak is essential.

I also know of a pony fed haylage, whilst on a Cushing's laminitis regime - and didn't make it  
	
	
		
		
	


	




  I just don't get why they didn't swap him to intensively soaked hay 
	
	
		
		
	


	





A feed company somewhere must surely be able to mass produce a ready to feed 'soaked hay' replacer with guaranteed minimum recommended NSC levels...


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## TGM (4 February 2010)

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A feed company somewhere must surely be able to mass produce a ready to feed 'soaked hay' replacer with guaranteed minimum recommended NSC levels... 

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Well they do really - both Dengie HiFi Lite and Spiller's Happy Hoof are said by the manufacturers to be suitable to be fed as total hay replacers for laminitics.  Happy Hoof has a sugar/starch level of 9%, not sure about the HiFi Lite but would presume it is under 10% as well.

The problem with such products though, is they are much more expensive than hay.  I used Happy Hoof as a total hay replacer for a Cushingoid pony with dental problems and it was very successful in preventing laminitis as well as keeping the pony in healthy condition - however it did cost me a fortune and that was for a 11hh pony.  Hate to have try and feed a horse like that!


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## mrdarcy (4 February 2010)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

A feed company somewhere must surely be able to mass produce a ready to feed 'soaked hay' replacer with guaranteed minimum recommended NSC levels... 

[/ QUOTE ]

Well they do really - both Dengie HiFi Lite and Spiller's Happy Hoof are said by the manufacturers to be suitable to be fed as total hay replacers for laminitics.  Happy Hoof has a sugar/starch level of 9%, not sure about the HiFi Lite but would presume it is under 10% as well.

The problem with such products though, is they are much more expensive than hay.  I used Happy Hoof as a total hay replacer for a Cushingoid pony with dental problems and it was very successful in preventing laminitis as well as keeping the pony in healthy condition - however it did cost me a fortune and that was for a 11hh pony.  Hate to have try and feed a horse like that! 

[/ QUOTE ]

But both those still contain molasses. It annoys me that feed companies can get away with marketing feeds as suitable for laminitics yet still put molasses in them when there is absolutely no need for it.

There is definitely a gap in the market for a hay replacer made from low sugar mixed grasses and herbs but excluding rye grass and other high sugar cultivated/fertilised grasses. Simple Systems Ruff Stuff is probably the closest but not easy to get hold of for most people.


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## TGM (4 February 2010)

[ QUOTE ]
But both those still contain molasses.  

[/ QUOTE ] Well, Dengie HiFi Lite actually only contains mollasses extract, and TBH, the addition of a small amount of molasses to aid palatability doesn't worry me too much if the total sugar content is below 10% and lower than most unsoaked hays.  I can understand though, if you have a particularly sugar intolerant laminitic that you might want to seek out even lower sugar content forages.


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## Box_Of_Frogs (5 February 2010)

Blimey - is Hi Fi Lite molassed??? {{Runs off to Google it}} Sunny has successfully lost 50KG through the winter months by a feeding regime of ad lib haylage and am + pm bucket feeds of a couple handfuls Hi Fi Lite, couple handfuls of Veteran Chaff, Speedibeet to dampen and pad out and espresso coffee cup sized amount of Baileys Lo Cal. NB: you can see your face in Sunny's coat and he is a happy, healthy boy so he isn't starving lol.


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## AngieandBen (5 February 2010)

Hi Fi Lite has around 4% sugar; the Good Doer is 8% ( most low cal chaffs are around 4% sugar.

I think the only unmolassed chaffs are Alpha Oil and SS chaffs
I feed my ponies Lucie Stalks.


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## _HP_ (5 February 2010)

Mollichaff do a non mollassed one aswell which is about 2.5 sugar
 and for information...

http://www.horsehage.co.uk/analysis.html


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## TGM (5 February 2010)

Just remember that you need to know the total soluble carb level - ie sugar AND starch.  For example, Happy Hoof is 5% sugar and 4% starch, but that is still less than 10% in total.  However, if you were looking at a feed that was 8% sugar you might think that was OK, but if it starch level was 6% then it would make the total soluble carbs more than 10%.  So check with manufacturers what the TOTAL starch/sugar level is to be on the safe side.


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## Chumsmum (5 February 2010)

Very interesting post.  Just out of interest, would one of the HorseHage range be any good? Perhaps this may be easier to feed than soaking for some people?

Fingers crossed I never have to find out, horrible disease.


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