# How long would you leave your horse WITHOUT food?



## Jackson (25 July 2011)

Say, in a stable with no hay, or on a scarily long hack? 

Was just wondering. If my horse is in for whatever reason at night, he has 1 haynet packed full and a bit of tea if it is in the winter. If he is given any more hay than that, he generally tends to leave it (which is strange, because he is a greedy pig.) I just assumed that he must use his stable time for sleeping..

But I think that he would finish the said food pretty quickly and that leaves a lot of night time for him to be there with no food. (obviously, this isn't a problem for him, because he doesn't eat any more than what he has, but it made me think of the question, heh.)

So, how long?


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## Abbeygale (25 July 2011)

I would rather give my horses enough hay so they have a little left over, then I know that if they've stood there not eating then that's there choice, not mine


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## celia (25 July 2011)

I like horses stabled overnight to have ad-lib hay, so I know they've always got access to forage. For fatties I soak hay and would use small holed nets or double nets to slow them down but I'd still want them eating most of the time. I think 3-4 hours is about the max I'd want to leave them without hay. It's so important for good digestion (inc. preventing ulcers) and I think it's better for their mental health as well. I don't tend to hack for more than a couple of hours but if I did go on longer rides I'd let the horses stop for a quick graze somewhere on the way.


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## ILuvCowparsely (25 July 2011)

we give 3 sections hay at night in winter 

 summer they out all night   and in  in the day they don't have anything in stable during the the day in the summer .

i give my haylage to mine  late evening round 9pm  i dont give adlib i like to give it later as they been out all day so full then they come in have dinner  and they wait around 3 hours before haylage


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## horsegirl (25 July 2011)

Ideally, in the stable, never. If you have a fatty then mix hay with straw and double or even triple net it so they have small amounts to eat all the time


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## fidleyspromise (25 July 2011)

mine are out but my Newfie was in one bad night in winter (can't rug her currently).
I was wary of leaving a haynet so she got loads of hay and still had plenty left in the morning.  They get ad-lib in field too.
I wouldn't have her without any.

Hacking - I can be out for up to 5 hours and they don't get anything other than a few snatches of grass here and there.


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## lexiedhb (25 July 2011)

In the stable as much as they need so that there is some left over- they are grazers, so meant to graze all the time.... never considered that side of things when out on mega 4hr + hacks.... something to think about


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## Polo*Pony (25 July 2011)

Flo_Bell said:



			I would rather give my horses enough hay so they have a little left over, then I know that if they've stood there not eating then that's there choice, not mine 

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This, totally. I used to be quite paranoid about this and make up huge big haynets for mine, but there was always quite a bit left when they got their morning haynets. Much happier with that than wondering how long the nets had been empty for.

I was told a long time ago by a (very knowledgeable, to give her credit) YO than 10 hours is the absolute max they should be without food - by this point all the food will have passed through and their empty gut could collapse in on itself, leading to very nasty colic. 10 hours is a long time though! Wouldn't want to leave it that long, really. That's what made me start making huge haynets for overnight, as realistically it's a good 12 hours between feeding times. As I say though, they always leave a bit so at least I know the food is there if they want it.

When I was in America we used to hack out for 7-8 hours a day in the desert - horses got a small haynet and some treats about halfway through.


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## monkeybum13 (25 July 2011)

When in the stable she has ad lib hay so doesn't go without food. The only time she goes without food is when being ridden which can be up to 2 1/2 - 3hours if going on a long hack/endurance ride.

At competitions she tends to nibble on her haynet between classes and stuffs her face when travelling.


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## xRobyn (25 July 2011)

If I gave Phil adlib I genuinely believe he would eat 3/4 of a bale a night. He's on a straw bed though so always has that to munch if he's starving. One of the horses at the yard is a 'fatty' so goes out unmuzzled, doesn't have his hay soaked but only gets 1-2 sections at night between 5pm and 9am 

Phil probably does 10 hours at the most, but as I say, has straw to nibble if he's really hungry.


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## Kokopelli (25 July 2011)

Ad-lib hay when stabled.


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## team barney (25 July 2011)

Mine get ad-lib.  I wouldn't feel comfortable keeping a horse in a stable with nothing to eat, horses are trickle feeders, having nothing to eat for any length of time isn't healthy.


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## stencilface (25 July 2011)

Gets about 3-4 bits of hay (depending on size) when in at night during the winter for about a 12 hour stint in the stable.  But he is stabled on straw so can always nibble on that (and if its oat straw with lively consequences for me!), and there's always a little hay left.  None of ours (fingers crossed) have ever had colic or any other problems by being stabled like this.


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## Ranyhyn (25 July 2011)

Enough hay to leave some, double netted if neccessary to slow her down.

On long hacks we have a short grazing break inbetween, for my a long hack is over 2 hours.


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## eggs (25 July 2011)

During the summer mine come in at 8.30 and have their breakfast.  Most get turned back out at 1 but those that stay in have a small amount of hay at this time and then have their tea at 6 before being turned out.

If one of the horses is being ridden before lunchtime I will give them a largish handful of hay so that they have something in their stomach to act as a buffer to the stomach acid.

In the winter they come in before it gets dark and have their tea at about 6.  They then get their hay at 10. Breakfast is at 8 and then they ar turned out. 

They will regularly have about 4 hours with no food provided but have come to no harm. Our grazing is very good and we are constantly striving to keep their weight on.


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## jalapeno (26 July 2011)

mine are out from 8am-6pm then they have their tea and a small amount of haylage then at 10pm they have a small holed haynet


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## Naryafluffy (26 July 2011)

celia said:



			I like horses stabled overnight to have ad-lib hay, so I know they've always got access to forage. For fatties I soak hay and would use small holed nets or double nets to slow them down but I'd still want them eating most of the time. I think 3-4 hours is about the max I'd want to leave them without hay. It's so important for good digestion (inc. preventing ulcers) and I think it's better for their mental health as well. I don't tend to hack for more than a couple of hours but if I did go on longer rides I'd let the horses stop for a quick graze somewhere on the way. 

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Until your vet insists that they are starved for 12hours so they can do blood work!!!
That never goes down well having the haynet taken away at 9pm, followed by the vet sticking a bloody great needle in her!!!


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## Jackson (26 July 2011)

Hmm. thanks everyone, very interesting.. forgot to add that mine had a straw bed too.


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## Persephone (26 July 2011)

Haha its probably tucking in to the bd then!

I always feed adlib. If it's a fatty mix with barley straw or use a fine weave net (or 3 )


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## POLLDARK (26 July 2011)

Out hunting I always seemed to be the only person to let my horse have a mouthful of grass now & then. Other horses went the entire day with nothing at all. I think they all thought I was potty, probably am !


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## tobysg (26 July 2011)

My fatty goes out muzzled, when she comes in, I do not give her a haynet.
She is not hungry when she comes in though and tends to sleep all day with no qualms about not having hay. 

In the winter, she has max of 12lb (we have a weight limit on our hay) at night which does not last her long however she eats A LOT of her straw bedding. At my previous yard, having been out all day, she came in and ate her shavings bed until we intervened. I am sure if she was hungry enough and there was no food about, she'd have no problems eating nearby humans or other animals! She'd never allow herself starve! Food/eating is her main love and priority in the world!  
Not to mention, she gets extremely angry/grumpy when she is genuinely hungry so it is very obvious when she NEEDS food.


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## lilaclomax (26 July 2011)

In a 24 hour period I believe horse doze/sleep for around 4-6 hours, play for 2-4 hours, travel for 6-8 hours and graze in between everything else! 

Once stabled you remove the movement and play leaving just 4-6 hours for sleeping - that is the maximum time they should be without forage... but, given that most horses also choose to doze whilst out too, I would say 2-3 hours is the longest they should be without forage (and this should ideally be in the middle of the time they are in!)

Now being practical I prefer my boy to have enough forage to last all night if needed, 1.5% of his bodyweight in soaked hay does just that in the winter if in small holed nets


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## Nocturnal (26 July 2011)

diamond_light said:



			summer they out all night   and in  in the day they don't have anything in stable during the the day in the summer .
		
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Your horses stand in a stable all day with nothing at all to eat? I knew you were a crackpot, but jeeez.


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## Wagtail (26 July 2011)

Ideally, I think horses should always have access to forage, so would feed ad-lib. However, we use haylage rather than hay and the horses just gobble as much as you can give them. One year I was feeding ad-lib haylage and had to stop because they all looked pregnant! Since then, they get a ration according to their condition and whether they are good or poor doers. I split the ration up into five or six small amounts which I feed at regular times throughout the day and evening. The last portion is slightly larger to see them through most of the night. I feed an average of 16 kilos per day per horse which is more than the 10 - 12 kilos recommended by haylage suppliers. I find that this maintains their condition throughout the winter. I feed very little hard feed.

The longest I have left a horse without food is 12 hours and that was for veterinary purposes. I would not like a horse to go for more than four hours other than that, for any reason.


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## touchstone (26 July 2011)

Nocturnal said:



			Your horses stand in a stable all day with nothing at all to eat? I knew you were a crackpot, but jeeez.
		
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Actually this was standard practice on a yard I worked on years ago.  Over twenty horses and ponies and very rarely any cases of colic or laminitis and no ulcers.  They were all turned out, some on  minimal grazing, at about 5pm, brought in at 7.30 and all were healthy and well covered.  Not something I'd be happy doing personally, but if the horses are happy and healthy that's what matters.


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## Nocturnal (26 July 2011)

touchstone said:



			Actually this was standard practice on a yard I worked on years ago.  Over twenty horses and ponies and very rarely any cases of colic or laminitis and no ulcers.  They were all turned out, some on  minimal grazing, at about 5pm, brought in at 7.30 and all were healthy and well covered.  Not something I'd be happy doing personally, but if the horses are happy and healthy that's what matters.
		
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Perhaps, but I know that if I did that to my horse he'd be beyond miserable. Same goes for every other horse I've had.


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## Brandy (26 July 2011)

Obviously it REALLY depends on the horse. My TB - ideally, would never be without food. 

My little fat native, well, she is in a fat pony paddock which she spends all night in, and has spent every night in since april. It is small. She goes in there at night and gets a tiny feed and thats it, I know she is still on grass but obv not much, and she is still fat. When she were stabled she would have one section of hay overnight in the summer, and a small feed. I know she would have spent quite a while overnight without food. She also spent a lrge portion of her life before I had her with Laminitis.


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## ihatework (26 July 2011)

Depends on how much the horse needs to be honest.

My last horse, whenever he was in the stable, had access to adlib haylage.

Current horse is slightly more rationed as a naturally good doer. He is currently stabled during the day (8am-7pm ish) and gets trickle fed - small hard feed at 8am & 4pm, plus a small amount of hay at 8am, lunchtime and 4pm. I then ride at 6 ish before turning out on limited grazing.

For any horse I'd aim to have something in them no longer than 5 hours apart really.


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## touchstone (26 July 2011)

Nocturnal said:



			Perhaps, but I know that if I did that to my horse he'd be beyond miserable. Same goes for every other horse I've had.
		
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I agree that mine would be too; being a naturally food orientated live off fresh air type doesn't help.  Interestingly though these horses weren't miserable, always came in quite happily and never made a fuss about not having food.  Most of them spent their entire lives with this routine, so whether it was the fact that it was 'routine' and they accepted as such made a difference I don't know.


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## lilaclomax (26 July 2011)

touchstone said:



			Actually this was standard practice on a yard I worked on years ago.  Over twenty horses and ponies and very rarely any cases of colic or laminitis and no ulcers.  They were all turned out, some on  minimal grazing, at about 5pm, brought in at 7.30 and all were healthy and well covered.  Not something I'd be happy doing personally, but if the horses are happy and healthy that's what matters.
		
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I also know this used to be standard practice on some yards, we are continously learning as a species and knowledge is adapting to create the best enviroment for all including our horses.
I had never heard of ulcers when younger, it doesn't mean they were not there, if we are going to do what is best for our own horses we need to look at what they actually need not want we think they would like!

Maybe we should all ask ourselves the following questions?

Do they need a hard feed?
Would my native be better off on scrubland rather than the current pastures?
Do I feed according to the exercise my horse does or because they expect a feed?
Would I like to go without food if there is no entertainment and I cannot do any exercise for more than a few hours when wide awake?
Sure there are loads more questions that I should be asking myself too


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## touchstone (26 July 2011)

lilaclomax said:



			I also know this used to be standard practice on some yards, we are continously learning as a species and knowledge is adapting to create the best enviroment for all including our horses.
I had never heard of ulcers when younger, it doesn't mean they were not there, if we are going to do what is best for our own horses we need to look at what they actually need not want we think they would like!

Maybe we should all ask ourselves the following questions?

Do they need a hard feed?
Would my native be better off on scrubland rather than the current pastures?
Do I feed according to the exercise my horse does or because they expect a feed?
Would I like to go without food if there is no entertainment and I cannot do any exercise for more than a few hours when wide awake?
Sure there are loads more questions that I should be asking myself too 

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Good post    I do feel that many owners are pressurised into feeding hard feed unnecessarily by advertising etc.  Also not many horses are truly in 'hard' work nowadays.    I'm working hard on developing 'scrubland' too!  

I find the balance between feeding sufficient fibre and keeping weight down is difficult with a native good doer, but not impossible; I have to restrict grazing quite severely and feed fibre continuously all year.  I did allow extra grazing for a few months but weight has gone on, so back to hardly any again


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## caitlin95uk (26 July 2011)

Mine always has access to food, but in the heat yesterday she has a shelter with a haynes and a bucket of water but shed still rather stand by the trough in the sun and not eat at all..


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## touchstone (26 July 2011)

caitlin95uk said:



			Mine always has access to food, but in the heat yesterday she has a shelter with a haynes and a bucket of water but shed still rather stand by the trough in the sun and not eat at all..
		
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I wish mine would do that!  The poor doer tb does, but chubby native stuffs all day as long as possible whatever the weather!

I know in hot climates it is recommended to feed less fibre to help the horse keep cool; it's a wonder mine doesn't self combust in hot weather


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## caitlin95uk (26 July 2011)

Touchstone, believe it or not mines a new forest x welsh cob, isn't fussy with food, just a bit of a poor doer!


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## touchstone (26 July 2011)

God I'm so jealous!


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## Milanesa (26 July 2011)

I think most horses when left with a haynet eat it within a few hours. Mine are fed around 5pm and pony finished by 6.30-7pm (I have them at home so can check them) the big horses would get abit more at that time but would finish around 9pm until 6am the following morning. They are happy and well fed on this. I would not give them so much it is left I the morning to be thrown away, that to me is wasteful.


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## Vindaloo (26 July 2011)

Oh!  I didn't know that, we are in a VERY hot climate and all have unlimited access to hay.  They all seem to cope really well with the heat to be fair but I will google this.  That's really interesting.

Mind you, i'm one for ad lib hay at all times.  Was at a yard years ago where YO insisted on long periods without hay and it turned my last horse into a stable destroying wreck.  I moved pronto.


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## Solo1 (26 July 2011)

Out 24/7 throughout summer, no hard feed unless I get a really lazy one that needs some oomph, or they're working hard.

In winter they're out as long as possible - usually 6am-7pm. Fed hard feed for conditioning when they come in, and at half 5 get enother half feed and those not turned out until later a slice of hay. For my TB, who loses condition in winter, he gets a haynet stuffed to the brim and some on floor, so basically ad-lib. However this can last him a few days, so technically he's never without food.

However my youngster is half connie and the biggest pig ever  She's never semed to budge from overweight despite our every effort, she's coming into work so hopefully that will help a little! She gets three slices of hay, soaked and double netted. Fed this at 10pm before I go to bed, so must take a couple of hours to get through, so I would say 5 hours without?


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## touchstone (26 July 2011)

Dougalsmum said:



			Oh!  I didn't know that, we are in a VERY hot climate and all have unlimited access to hay.  They all seem to cope really well with the heat to be fair but I will google this.  That's really interesting.

Mind you, i'm one for ad lib hay at all times.  Was at a yard years ago where YO insisted on long periods without hay and it turned my last horse into a stable destroying wreck.  I moved pronto.
		
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There's a link here might be useful  :- http://www.applesnoats.com/hotweather.pdf


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## ILuvCowparsely (26 July 2011)

Nocturnal said:



			Your horses stand in a stable all day with nothing at all to eat? I knew you were a crackpot, but jeeez.
		
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excuse me  they are out 16 hours  they are  ALL over weight   the owners DONT  want their horses  to have anything in day   they have the choice of lunch time hay ,they choose not to.  WE HAVE EX GRAZING    YES they do get hard feeds the grass so long  its over their knees . IF YOUR GOING TO START HURLING ABUSE I WILL REPORT U .   Their is no need  for that   my yard  I run it BHS way as I am BHS trained  .  I been in horses  a very long time  MY Horses also are way over weight    All horses  are very happy      All the horses come in a sleep most of the day before being ridden and turned out   we spend over 900 pounds   on our grazing   all its ex quality  we have been told we have the best grazing around our area  so don't come all the holier than though with me.  . 

 What !!  its better  to let them get laminitis then  is it?? of  heart problems due to weight?


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## 'S'teamed (26 July 2011)

Nocturnal said:



			Your horses stand in a stable all day with nothing at all to eat? I knew you were a crackpot, but jeeez.
		
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## TGM (26 July 2011)

diamond_light said:



			excuse me  they are out 16 hours  they are  ALL over weight   the owners DONT  want their horses  to have anything in day   they have the choice of lunch time hay ,they choose not to.  WE HAVE EX GRAZING    YES they do get hard feeds the grass so long  its over their knees . IF YOUR GOING TO START HURLING ABUSE I WILL REPORT U .   Their is no need  for that   my yard  I run it BHS way as I am BHS trained  .  I been in horses  a very long time  MY Horses also are way over weight    All horses  are very happy      All the horses come in a sleep most of the day before being ridden and turned out   we spend over 900 pounds   on our grazing   all its ex quality  we have been told we have the best grazing around our area  so don't come all the holier than though with me.  . 

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If all the horses are overweight, wouldn't it be better to cut out the hard feed, restrict the grazing in some way (strip graze?) and let them have a small net when they are in the stable.  Eight hours is a long time to stand with nothing at all and can't be good for their stomachs.


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## VioletStripe (26 July 2011)

at the livery stables I'm at my boy gets a MAHOOSIVE hay net at night, seriously huge! And then in the morning he will have whatever's left of that haynet and a wedge or two added on to that. He's only on hay and also has his himalayan salt lick to play with, during the day he will also usually go out in the field where there is plenty of hay and grass and plants for him to snack on, and he's always out for a minimum of 2 hours. I also let him have a snack and play with his Horselyx once a day usually. I'd never happily leave for more than 4 hours or so without forage, purely because it gives him something to do and it's good for him! If he's ever without, my friend takes all the old hay out of her haynet before refilling (her horse won't eat it if it's left?!) and then he'll get that on top. With the way he messes up his bedding though, there's always a bit left in there as well  xx

ETA: my boy is a 4 year old overgrown connie, so he's a pretty good doer, however he's not fat with this regime. He also gets bran once, occasionally twice a week as that's the practice at the yard I'm at  And so far, he's happy and healthy!


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## Nocturnal (26 July 2011)

diamond_light said:



			excuse me  they are out 16 hours  they are  ALL over weight   the owners DONT  want their horses  to have anything in day   they have the choice of lunch time hay ,they choose not to.  WE HAVE EX GRAZING    YES they do get hard feeds the grass so long  its over their knees . IF YOUR GOING TO START HURLING ABUSE I WILL REPORT U .   Their is no need  for that   my yard  I run it BHS way as I am BHS trained  .  I been in horses  a very long time  MY Horses also are way over weight    All horses  are very happy      All the horses come in a sleep most of the day before being ridden and turned out   we spend over 900 pounds   on our grazing   all its ex quality  we have been told we have the best grazing around our area  so don't come all the holier than though with me.  . 

 What !!  its better  to let them get laminitis then  is it?? of  heart problems due to weight?
		
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I won't get into an argument about correct management (as I doubt you're open to suggestions), but might I suggest a grammar checker? I'm struggling to understand you.


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## ILuvCowparsely (26 July 2011)

its the owners choice not to have hay 

 as for grammar   why don't you look up dyslexia

 no i don't need  suggestions how to run my yard my way the way my owners want  i been in horses  over 40 years  

 we have a livery who is in horse welfare and they have no problems   with what we do  and one of the horses is hers thankyou 

 The hard feed they need as   they need their supplements


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## 'S'teamed (26 July 2011)

Nocturnal said:



			I won't get into an argument about correct management (as I doubt you're open to suggestions), but might I suggest a grammar checker? I'm struggling to understand you. 

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Steady now, or She'll whip out the Bullying Card quicker than the blink of an eye.


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## Enfys (26 July 2011)

diamond_light said:



			excuse me  they are out 16 hours  they are  ALL over weight   the owners  Their is no need  for that   my yard  I run it BHS way as I am BHS trained  .  I been in horses  a very long time  MY Horses *also are way over *weight    All horses  are very happy...  You are a wonderful walking advert for the BHS then I am sure. I have BHS qualifications too, for what they are worth, which is actually diddly squat to me     we spend over 900 pounds   on our grazing 900! How so? Yes, expensive isn't it?     all its ex quality  we have been told we have the best grazing around our area  Who by? Cattle farmers?so don't come all the holier than though with me.  . :mad Deep breaths...
 What !!  its better  to let them get laminitis then  is it?? of  heart problems due to weight? Of course not, but if you manage your grazing better perhaps you wouldn't have the weight problems to begin with perhaps. 

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In answer to the original question, I don't. 

Everything has ad-lib hay *all* the time,  in pastures and stalls. It is their choice whether they actually eat or not. If they are being ridden then they'll go as long as they are out for without food, they can pick at grass if we stop but they are never so hungry they are diving for food. as ever, horses are individuals and all must be treated as such. No rule is set in stone.


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## Kenzo (26 July 2011)

Well if I was to give a enough hay to last one of mine through the night I'd of killed her by now.

Surely it depends on the individual horse and the type of diet and work they do to a degree, yes I'm all for feeding little and often and doubling up haynets etc to slow them down but some horses simply don't come up for air, like people some are just very greedy and eat very fast and leave nothing to spare, so eating twice as much comes with it's own dangers as well rather than letting them stand a few hours with nothing. 

What works for one type of horse could in fact be very wreckless for another.


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## Enfys (26 July 2011)

'S'teamed said:



			Steady now, or She'll whip out the Bullying Card quicker than the blink of an eye.
		
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## rubyrumba (26 July 2011)

My horses have ad-lib hay too, I always make sure they have enough so that they've got a bit left when I get there so i know they haven't been without anything. Some horses on the yard have come in at 4pm and finished their hay by 7pm and then are left til 10am with nothing. I don't think that is fair on them at all.


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## Vindaloo (26 July 2011)

That really was interesting reading.  Will be printing off and showing to YO since a few of his def show signs of not coping as well as others.  We were at a loss to know why and there are a couple of things in that document which could be the answer.

Thank you very much.


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## ThePinkPony (26 July 2011)

diamond_light said:



			as for grammar   why don't you look up dyslexia
		
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Sorry, i've looked everywhere and the medical definition for dyslexia definitely doesnt include;

Too lazy to correct poor typing skills, 

or 

Excuse for inability to proof read. 

Wish people would stop crying ''ooh im dyslexic' at the drop of a hat. Its just insulting to anyone who is actually diagnosed and does suffer from it.


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## ILuvCowparsely (26 July 2011)

ThePinkPony said:



			Sorry, i've looked everywhere and the medical definition for dyslexia definitely doesnt include;

Too lazy to correct poor typing skills, 

or 

Excuse for inability to proof read. 

Wish people would stop crying ''ooh im dyslexic' at the drop of a hat. Its just insulting to anyone who is actually diagnosed and does suffer from it.
		
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 actually FYI  I am dyslexic     have been diagnosed  way before    there was much known about, 

 I am guilty of not being a good typist.    Hense why never took that up.

 Anyway   now you know !  as per post  how long you leave your horse without food . I do what  my livery owners want  that's all that matters not some  forum posters who have nothing to do with my yard   so excuse me if i ignore your comments


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## Gwennies (26 July 2011)

I thought this thread was about feeding horses. How is it that we are now talking about grammer?  Is there a correlation between how people write and how they feed their horses? If there is, then I must be pretty rubbish at feeding horses as I can't spell for toffee.


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## ILuvCowparsely (26 July 2011)

Gwennies said:



			I thought this thread was about feeding horses. How is it that we are now talking about grammer?  Is there a correlation between how people write and how they feed their horses? If there is, then I must be pretty rubbish at feeding horses as I can't spell for toffee. 

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lol    yup back to the topic  in hand.


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## Leah3horses (26 July 2011)

Why oh why do posters on this forum feel it is acceptable to personally insult anybody and everybody??  It shouldn't matter what the subject is, there is no need to prey on peoples' weaknessess and type personal insults and names. That is the way of the playground.

Back on the topic...if horse owners don't know that to with hold food for several hours is the best way to get horses' metabolisms to go into 'sleep mode' and will only help those horses NOT to drop weight , it's a shame. Little and often is the holy grail.Just look at how they evolved, to graze on grassland (not cultivated pasture), and to travel dozens of miles a day, eating 'on the hoof'. We have made most domesticated horses less hardy than this obviously...but the good doers and natives suit as natural a life as possible, in general.There are always exceptions but a native should , theoretically, be able to go back out into his native environment and survive happily without human intervention. Having humans to look after them is a luxury, just think how many Shetland/Welsh etc still live out on the hills in all weathers.But we go too far sometimes.


Grazing muzzles or restricted grazing is obvious if they are overweight. It's better to restrict grazing in the first place than to allow or encourage horses to become overweight, thought that was common knowledge? Lo Cal balancer if concerned about nutrients, but if grazing is good then natives particularly can get all they need from their grass.Not many horses in the UK,apart from the obvious eventers/competition types and the poor doers..need hard feed, even in winter, imo (experienced opinion)

As for the BHS..most of their stable and horse management hasn't been properly updated since the 1950s!! To keep a horse to the letter of the BHS books, without using Horse sense, current research, and looking at each horse individually..is illogical.  With horses,especially natives, which I have and love.. my own view is...less is more..less faffing, less rugs,less stabling,less gadgets,and definitely less grazing and feed than we think has always worked well for me and mine. Diamond, you obviously love your horses very much...but please don't kill with 'kindness', anybody...and never leave a horse longer than a couple of hours without something to nibble on, barley straw or a big toy you can put low cal balancer will keep their digestive systems going but not add to weight gain.  On long hacks again, I thought it common practice for horses to be allowed to pick at grass and trees, with permission from their rider? Mine knows when she can, I have trained her by saying 'OK' in a bright voice when she can have a nibble.


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## ILuvCowparsely (26 July 2011)

Leah3horses said:



			Why oh why do posters on this forum feel it is acceptable to personally insult anybody and everybody??  It shouldn't matter what the subject is, there is no need to prey on peoples' weaknessess and type personal insults and names. That is the way of the playground.

Back on the topic...if horse owners don't know that to with hold food for several hours is the best way to get horses' metabolisms to go into 'sleep mode' and will only help those horses NOT to drop weight , it's a shame. Little and often is the holy grail.Just look at how they evolved, to graze on grassland (not cultivated pasture), and to travel dozens of miles a day, eating 'on the hoof'. We have made most domesticated horses less hardy than this obviously...but the good doers and natives suit as natural a life as possible, in general.There are always exceptions but a native should , theoretically, be able to go back out into his native environment and survive happily without human intervention. Having humans to look after them is a luxury, just think how many Shetland/Welsh etc still live out on the hills in all weathers.But we go too far sometimes.


Grazing muzzles or restricted grazing is obvious if they are overweight. It's better to restrict grazing in the first place than to allow or encourage horses to become overweight, thought that was common knowledge? Lo Cal balancer if concerned about nutrients, but if grazing is good then natives particularly can get all they need from their grass.Not many horses in the UK,apart from the obvious eventers/competition types and the poor doers..need hard feed, even in winter, imo (experienced opinion)

As for the BHS..most of their stable and horse management hasn't been properly updated since the 1950s!! To keep a horse to the letter of the BHS books, without using Horse sense, current research, and looking at each horse individually..is illogical.  With horses,especially natives, which I have and love.. my own view is...less is more..less faffing, less rugs,less stabling,less gadgets,and definitely less grazing and feed than we think has always worked well for me and mine. Diamond, you obviously love your horses very much...but please don't kill with 'kindness', anybody...and never leave a horse longer than a couple of hours without something to nibble on, barley straw or a big toy you can put low cal balancer will keep their digestive systems going but not add to weight gain.  On long hacks again, I thought it common practice for horses to be allowed to pick at grass and trees, with permission from their rider? Mine knows when she can, I have trained her by saying 'OK' in a bright voice when she can have a nibble.
		
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 Thank-you for your concern in a civilized way unlike some ..

 But its  the owners choices not to have lunch time hay, they have a choice.   The yard has run 15 years this way and very few ask for lunch time hay.  If your views are different so be it.  

 Some liveries tried the muzzles but the horses wont keep them on , other liveries  don't want to try .

 I am not going to upset my liveries by enforcing them to hay.  This thread like most  was asking  a question , I answered it and all the worms came out the ground . I did not ask any opinion   on what  I wrote if it   was right , wrong or asking should I do this or that. I was   Just stating whats done here   like  some others did .  I am sorry you don't like what we do, that's life   you can't please everyone .  Until a livery  wants lunchtime hay  we will keep our liveries and their horses happy as things are


  They are whats important  nothing  else .


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## Pearlsasinger (26 July 2011)

QR,
I would have thought that it was the responsibility of an experienced YO to educate less knowledgeable liveries, so that they learn that horses need to be trickle fed, that very few horses actually need hard feed and that 'good grazing' is more suited to cows than horses.

Incidentally, I am qualified to teach people with dyslexia and to diagnose the learning difficulty.  It is a difficulty with reading and spelling, which can also extend into difficulties with social skills (the inability to read body language/'between the lines'), it is NOT an inability to speak/write in a grammatically correct manner, contrary to popular belief.  This is because speech is learned by listening to others, spelling is learned visually.


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## ILuvCowparsely (26 July 2011)

This conversation is over   I have said  what my yard does. All my liveries are experience its their choice not mine . This is my last comment on this .


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## Ibblebibble (26 July 2011)

well as mine are rarely stabled they are never without something to nibble on for more than 2 hours max, thats the longest hack i do these days.


oh and i always thought forums were for the purpose of discussion, you know, exchange of ideas and different opinions  doesn't seem much point in coming on if you never want to discuss anything and are closed to new ideas
Hyde park corner is the place for preachers


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## ThePinkPony (26 July 2011)

Pearlsasinger said:



			QR,
I would have thought that it was the responsibility of an experienced YO to educate less knowledgeable liveries, so that they learn that horses need to be trickle fed, that very few horses actually need hard feed and that 'good grazing' is more suited to cows than horses.

Incidentally, I am qualified to teach people with dyslexia and to diagnose the learning difficulty.  It is a difficulty with reading and spelling, which can also extend into difficulties with social skills (the inability to read body language/'between the lines'), it is NOT an inability to speak/write in a grammatically correct manner, contrary to popular belief.  This is because speech is learned by listening to others, spelling is learned visually.
		
Click to expand...

No, it is an excuse for rambling and making no sense. did you  not know?  honestly, look it up 

(incidentally I have a couple of close friends and my dad who are actually diagnosed as dsylexic, and none of them mention it and never use it as an excuse,  which is why i hate the term bandied about as if its a get out of jail free card for sloppy writing when in fact it can actually be rather debilitating to those actually affected, like my dad)


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## q105 (26 July 2011)

I was told by a very experienced YO that horses need to graze in order to maintain a healthy immune system, and in order to regulate their body temperature.  
She didn't ever get into the specifics of how long a horse can go without grazing, nor what amount is considered appropriate....but she wouldn't let a horse under her care be left in the stable without a hay/haylage net for more than a couple of hours.
I have certainly never boxed a horse without ensuring there is some sustenance to maintain them through the night, but none of mine have ever had weight issues.
PS. As a new member, I find the bitchy comments pretty abhorent, from either camp. Doesn't make for the most welcoming environments.....hope I never come across any of you on my yard!


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## Serenity087 (26 July 2011)

Out of curiosity... if Dorey has a haynet, she doesn't finish all of her forage.  If I put it on the floor (which I have done since she was on box rest, as she suffers from the dust otherwise) then she seems to get through it all fairly quickly.

I'm loathe to put it back in a haynet, see dust issue point, and I'm reluctant to give her more if she's just going to eat it for the sake of it.  Obviously the haynet is more effort than she is hungry so it slows her down...

Gah! Horses...


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## touchstone (26 July 2011)

Dougalsmum said:



			That really was interesting reading.  Will be printing off and showing to YO since a few of his def show signs of not coping as well as others.  We were at a loss to know why and there are a couple of things in that document which could be the answer.

Thank you very much.
		
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Oh thankyou, it will be interesting to see if it makes any difference to them,  I hope it helps!


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## Enfys (26 July 2011)

q105 said:



			PS. As a new member, I find the bitchy comments pretty abhorent, from either camp. Doesn't make for the most welcoming environments.....hope I never come across any of you on my yard!

Click to expand...

Welcome to HHO, you'll either get used to it or go and join IHDG or another ps, never go on COTH then 

Disregard the comments, it happens everywhere. The vast majority of people on here are normal, sensible human beings, and there is a wealth of experience and knowledge on here to be tapped into, t is just a question of stirring the pot and extracting that which suits you and your horse/s. Some folk occasionally morph into trolls if the moon is shining in the right direction but that's just added entertainment.

Fortunately you'll not have me on your yard  You have your own?

There _are_ a lot of people on here I _would_ welcome with open arms if they came on my yard though.


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## VioletStripe (26 July 2011)

Serenity087 said:



			Out of curiosity... if Dorey has a haynet, she doesn't finish all of her forage.  If I put it on the floor (which I have done since she was on box rest, as she suffers from the dust otherwise) then she seems to get through it all fairly quickly.
		
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Same with mine! (except for the dust, doesn't seem to bother him) Unfortunately I have given up with haynets as mine are always nicked on my yard, no matter whether or not I label it  Instead at my yard they are always given haynets during the night (I always try to snaffle one with the smallest holes so Casper doesn't gobble it all too quickly ) but then during the day it's put on the floor.. annoying as he also mixes it in with his bed as well as finishing it very quickly, which is yet another reason I opt for turnout whenever possible! xx


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## 'S'teamed (26 July 2011)

diamond_light said:



			This conversation is over   I have said  what my yard does. All my liveries are experience its their choice not mine . This is my last comment on this .
		
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There is a God afterall (whichever one you may follow).


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## babymare (26 July 2011)

ok puts on bodyarmour and awaits the onslaught - ok my mare is overweight - cant ride her unless bright day due to eyes cant strip graze her due to yard and cant move her due to her eyes phew got that out way - She has a slice of hay at night in summer and 2 (ok 3 if snow n ground in winter) she has a tiny feed of happy hoof with 1 carrot. Right yes she prob eats up quite quick but is out for 12 hours a day. I have had this routine for 5 years and in the words of my vet other than being over weight but not obese " she blossoms in health and is amazing giving her background and sight " and to continue with how I am managing her so mmmmmmm oh oh btw she doesnt wear a rug at all in winter either  Braces self for the comments  he he he he


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## babymare (26 July 2011)

and ohhhh hay fed loose on floor as hate nets as causes muscles problems and read the most amazing study by canadian scientists how the act of grazing ie head down grazing relieves stress and little lass need all could do to help her when bought her


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## Enfys (26 July 2011)

babymare said:



			....as causes muscles problems and read the most amazing study by canadian scientists how the act of grazing ie head down grazing relieves stress)
		
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  Relaxes the muscles, which is why horses *should * be trained to lower their heads with a cue that can be used from the ground and onboard. Lower the head, reduce the tension, as in  listen to the handler _not_ worry about the monster masquerading as a rock on the road, really, it works and the BHS never taught me that. 40 years in UK no-one told me and I never discovered it for myself either, duh, the first time I rode a horse on another continent ...bam.

Sorry, OT.


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## babymare (26 July 2011)

for me was natural for her and the study backed up what I have always thought - have never and never will use haynets with my horses - sorry the dragging of hay from net is not natural and my back lady said she wished more people fed on floor as would see less back/neck problems and that horses arnt thick they know what they have to eat lol and the lass is never stessed in morning and yes sometimes theres hay left so mmmm i have intleligent horse lol


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## The Fuzzy Furry (26 July 2011)

Oooh, this is fun 

Out of interest last winter, I fed the little fuzzy ad-lib hay for 72 hrs (3 full days & nights) when sheltered up in a 20ft x 12ft shelter & same size corrall outside to wander in & out. 
This 'ickle fuzzy got through 4 bales & still kept going when nets were replaced each time  - had 2 up constantly..... this is a 12.2 tubby. Made me giggle as was just proving myself right, in that she doesn't know when to stop.... 

Biggest fuzzy consumed 47lb, 48lb & 46lb over the same night time period of those days - having started with a total of 50lb of hay in nets.....

Back to 'usual' supplies for little fuzzy in winter, 7lb in a tight horsehage net (2 nets) & left from 7pm. I KNOW its all gone by 8pm at the latest, but tough, its done her fine for well over 20 yrs overnight till breakfast arrives between 6 & 7am....

Big fuzzy went back to 'normal' too - approx 18/20lb overnight.

Oh - and yes, for my 'experiment', it WAS put in nets - 1, to slow them down (yeah right!) and 2, so I could weigh it at start & end.

They both had another 6lb or so on the floor in the field in the morning in winter.

Now tho as both are out 24/7 in diet paddocks, they are peering beadily at anyone who goes near their paddock in the vague hope that someone might just move the elecrtic tape another 2 inches for them...... lardy, the pair of them if they were given ad-lib


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## jessikaGinger (26 July 2011)

i didnt get time to read all as im sooo tired and need my bed however

Mine comes in at 7.30ish, gets haylage but its soaked in doubled up haynets, im back at 6am
They have a straw bed..

I did an experiment as my friend said they only eat until there full and i should give her loads as she wont eat it all

Needless to say she ate 2 full haynets between 6pm and 11pm when i went back to check on her!!

She is disgustingly greedy soo i will keep starving her


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## Elsbells (26 July 2011)

I never leave my mare without anything. If she gets fat, I work her more.


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## jessikaGinger (26 July 2011)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I never leave my mare without anything. If she gets fat, I work her more. 

^^
This is how i used to be, but i cant now my mare has had her foal..


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## Foxymumma (26 July 2011)

Mine are out 24/7 atm due to the lovely weather!, I have 2, one is a very good doer native pony who is always on the verge of becoming enormous so in an effort to keep him at a healthy weight, is in a paddock that is pretty much bare and he has to wait for the grass to grow! lol, My other is a ISH and is in a much lusher paddock as she will eat then rest periodically throughout the day and remains at optimum weight, they both have a 'hard feed' which consists of a handful of hifi with their suppliments added to keep them both in tiptop performance and health. 
When they are stabled they have morning (7:30am), lunch (12pm) and evening (7pm) haylage nets, with a small hard feed as above inbetween, they will also get exercised and turnout at somepoint during the day too. They also have access to stable licks, hanging vegetables and toys for entertainment for those boring moments when theyre not watching the world coming and going at the yard..... I do believe they have a better lifestyle than me!!!


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## babymare (26 July 2011)

ielsbells = in an ideal world  yes i would work my mare more but at 13 she is going blind so as per vet working her is left for bright sunny days so please accept sometimes people have to work round things but as said in 5 years she as never colicd never stressed in mornings - stable at night all year - and yep she leaves hay and comes to me in field to come in . she is never rugged in winter even at minus 14 and as told by a girl on yard she is toasty. i would love to leave ad lib hay but i cant but mmmm ****** scratcheds chin **** done a damn fine job so far so hey i sleep at nights  lol


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## babymare (26 July 2011)

lol foxymumma @ better lifestyle than mine so so made me smile  xx


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## Elsbells (26 July 2011)

babymare said:



			ielsbells = in an ideal world  yes i would work my mare more but at 13 she is going blind so as per vet working her is left for bright sunny days so please accept sometimes people have to work round things but as said in 5 years she as never colicd never stressed in mornings - stable at night all year - and yep she leaves hay and comes to me in field to come in . she is never rugged in winter even at minus 14 and as told by a girl on yard she is toasty. i would love to leave ad lib hay but i cant but mmmm ****** scratcheds chin **** done a damn fine job so far so hey i sleep at nights  lol 

Click to expand...

I'm not knocking how anyone else keeps their horses, it's their buisness, not mine. The OP asked how long would you leave your horse without food and I have been honest with the answer I gave. If I had another horse of course, then maybe I would manage it differently


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## babymare (26 July 2011)

elsbells x


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## maxapple (26 July 2011)

Our 3 get ad-lib hay in the winter. 

At the moment they are out at night and in during the day.  My TB gets 2 sections in a 'doubled up net which lasts him the day. If he runs out, I up it a bit the next day so he always has a bit left. I am trying to get weight off him as he has a huge tummy after being out of work for the past 9 months. He also has a play ball with hi-fibre cubes in which keeps him busy for a while. We did try soaking his hay for 12 hours but he tends to just leave most of it so the double hay net works better.

One of our ponies gets 1 big section (as above) with his ball. He always has a bit left - if not I up it the next day.

My other pony gets as much as he can eat (which seems to be around 2 sections at the moment) - I can't put his in a double hay net as it stresses him out and he weaves, and he also won't eat soaked hay (fussy monster) but he is doing fine as he is exercised a lot.


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