# Cruelty - Waitrose free range ducks



## Double_choc_lab (8 February 2011)

Sadly another case of animal cruelty.  Thankfully Waitrose have suspended using this farm since viewing footage.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK...Free-Range_Ducks_Being_Abused_By_Farm_Workers

Sorry for the long address - hope it works.


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## rosie fronfelen (8 February 2011)

Double_choc_lab said:



			Sadly another case of animal cruelty.  Thankfully Waitrose have suspended using this farm since viewing footage.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK...Free-Range_Ducks_Being_Abused_By_Farm_Workers

Sorry for the long address - hope it works.
		
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disgusting!!!and not what i call free range, poor poor ducks and only half grown!!!


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## jens (8 February 2011)

I could only watch the first 10 secnds of that! That is completely disgusting. It makes you wonder how people can be so cruel.


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## amandap (8 February 2011)

Grrrrr! I can't watch much because it wont buffer properly but it looks like they are using ducks as sticks to move the other ducks with.


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## jendie (8 February 2011)

Sick. I would like to have swung some of those yobs by their necks. And to think Waitrose have the audacity to charge premium rates to reflect the high levels of care these poor bird receive. Disgusting.


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## Kayfm (8 February 2011)

Im afraid I could not watch the footage as it upsets me too much.  Glad Waitrose have suspended dealings.  These horrid people make me sick.


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## amandap (8 February 2011)

Supermarkets also clamping down on abuse in abbatoir. I haven't watched the vid but there is a news report as well. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/03/abattoirs-supermarkets-cctv-cruelty-welfare


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## Amymay (8 February 2011)

amandap said:



			Supermarkets also clamping down on abuse in abbatoir. I haven't watched the vid but there is a news report as well. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/03/abattoirs-supermarkets-cctv-cruelty-welfare

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F ********s


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## Archangel (8 February 2011)

amymay said:



			F ********s
		
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Well put Amymay.  What makes my blood boil is the F ********s probably get jobs in the abbatoir just so they can do that sort of stuff.


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## mon (8 February 2011)

Please dont blame the farmers and most the abatoirs, like religious killing that is legal need the govt to ban it, i have taken lambs to abatoirs and never seen any cruelty, and there are ministry vets present at every abatoir.


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## Alec Swan (8 February 2011)

I'm sorry to tell you that the practices viewed within the duck catching vid,  are common practice,  within all aspects of the poultry industry.

When you buy your cheap poultry from your local supermarket,  regardless of the bird species,  then you demand ever cheaper food.  There's only one way that cheap food can be produced,  and that's by cutting corners.

Are you aware,  that all commercially produced poultry,  from the day that they hatch,  are fed a permanent diet of antibiotics?  Is this why we,  as humans, have complaints,  which are ever more resistant to antibiotics?  

Poultry are kept in buildings,  containing many thousands of their kind,  and the deformed and dying,  are left to their own devices,  and still the Foods Standards Agency turn a blind eye to the way that our commercial poultry are produced.

Who's responsible for this?  *You are.* Your constant demand for cheaper meat,  and your support of the supermarkets fosters such practices,  *despite* what they will claim.

So Waitrose have distanced themselves from the suppliers filmed,  have they?  If they took the same action,  against all those suppliers who could be filmed,  carrying out atrocities,  they'd end up with no suppliers at all!!

Carrying a duck,  by its neck,  is actually acceptable.  It sounds awful,  but no harm comes to the bird.  The really disgraceful displays occur before the ducks are "caught",  and before slaughter.

*All of the major supermarkets* are very well aware of the treatment meted out to the poultry which they buy,  and so should you be.

Alec.


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## Maisie2 (8 February 2011)

Well said Alec.


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## amandap (8 February 2011)

Yes, I believe Alec has painted a valid picture. 

It really is time we all knew what providing meat on the scale and price we demand means for the animals and us humans.


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## Cedars (8 February 2011)

Erm, sorry, the comments about Waitrose are hugely unjustified.

My OH works for them. They, more than ANY other supermarket, put a HUGE effort into sourcing their produce from fair, kind and safe suppliers. When they became aware of this practice, they removed their business from their suppliers and FOUND SOMEONE ELSE. People like Tescos etc don't give a holy cow, and would continue. 

This practice does in some cases reflect in their increased pricing. Because they CARE about their produce, and about their customers and their needs. My OH comes home every other day telling me about how individual customers complaints have been passed to Head Office, and they have changed procedure due to the comments!

The people you need to be cross at, if any, are the individuals committing these acts. I havent seen the video, so I can't comment on whether it is cruelty or not, but it is 100% commendable of Waitrose that they have now removed their business from them, when many others have not and will not.


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## Binkle&Flip (8 February 2011)

I have to agree with flamehead regarding Waitrose. The company did in this case act very quickly.

Waitrose
"We are appalled by the footage taken at Hall Farm and as soon as we saw it we suspended the supplier and sent in a vet to ensure the welfare of the ducks remaining on the farm. 

...Following an immediate and detailed investigation, we have now ended our relationship with the supplier and they no longer supply Waitrose. The behaviour seen on the film is totally unacceptable and completely goes against the high welfare standards Waitrose expects of its farmers. 

We are also reviewing our processes to make sure we do everything we can to ensure nothing like this can ever happen again."

I do however worry about the welfare of the ducks that will be left in the hands of these people.


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## brighteyes (8 February 2011)

I have long been wary of buying even free range meat at supermarkets - I wouldn't touch the cheaper stuff for the reasons *Alec* outlines.  Until all animals are guaranteed a humane life and death, meat will remain largely off my menu. This just sickens me.


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## jodie3 (8 February 2011)

Doesn't 'free range duck' imply that they are outside, with access to water and able to live a natural life? Not stuck inside a barn in the dark.

I totally agree with Alec!  Didn't Hugh Fearnley-Whatsit do a programme about the cruelty involved in intensive poultry rearing?  The trouble is that people want everything as cheap as possible and don't give any thought to the conditions the animal/bird has had to endure in its short life.

A frightening amount of poultry is imported from abroad, including China.


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## Alec Swan (8 February 2011)

Binkle&Flip said:



			I have to agree with flamehead regarding Waitrose. The company did in this case act very quickly.

Waitrose
"We are appalled by the footage taken at Hall Farm and as soon as we saw it we suspended the supplier and sent in a vet to ensure the welfare of the ducks remaining on the farm. 

...Following an immediate and detailed investigation, we have now ended our relationship with the supplier and they no longer supply Waitrose. The behaviour seen on the film is totally unacceptable and completely goes against the high welfare standards Waitrose expects of its farmers. 

We are also reviewing our processes to make sure we do everything we can to ensure nothing like this can ever happen again."........
		
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Are you really serious,  B_F?  The Company acted quickly?  Well yes,  I suppose that they did,  but only when the events became available to the public.

"We are appalled by the footage taken at Hall Farm....etc."  Hang on a minute,  don't they advise us that they "monitor" all their suppliers?  They're talking nonsense,  and they know it.

"Following an immediate investigation"....  So they've dumped Hall Farm,  and will now seek out a new supplier.  "The behaviour" demonstrated,  is every day practice,  from all commercial producers,  and they are as aware of that,  as you should be!

"We are also reviewing our processes...."  Certainly they are,  and they've been doing it for years,  with little or no progress.  Progress is a matter of profit.  Understand that,  and you'll start to understand the appalling problem,  of poultry welfare.

Alec.

as a footnote,  Waitrose,  strange though it may sound are probably no better,  or worse than any other supermarket.  That doesn't alter the fact that it is a national disgrace.


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## EAST KENT (9 February 2011)

Well you are`nt going to get an intelligent individual who respects animal life doing duck catching for 5.80 (?) an hour are you?Next door farm used to do broiler chooks by the thousands,and killed and prepped as well,absolutely devoid of any thought processes re kindness amongst that lot  !
   If killing any animal/bird then the only realistic solution is to go veggie..you want cheap food that breathed once,there is`nt a fairy tale death for anything you eat..get used to it.


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## Cedars (9 February 2011)

Alec I have asked my OH about this last night. 

They do, regularly, monitor and visit their suppliers. However in this case, the suppliers were acting 100% professionally when they were being visited. This behaviour was only happening when they thought that they were on their own. However, when waitrose found out about their supplier, they immediately removed their business for them. I dont understand what else you wanted them to do? Or is it waitrose's fault that we eat meat? Because they're seen as posh? Because I can't see what else they could possibly have done more than their actions currently. 

And as an aside, they are the only supermarket who gives £1000, per branch, to a charity chosen by the customers once a month (it may even be weekly actually). They are the only supermarket that stock all free range lines. They buy from local suppliers where possible. 

Waitrose couldn't have acted more appropriately in this instance.


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## Cedars (9 February 2011)

And as for your misguided comment on progress equalling profit, waitrose is a Partnership. Therefore, by employee choice, they receive a bonus and the rest of the profit is ploughed straight back into the business to improve branches, open new ones, improve infrastructure so it's as env friendly as possible and choose their suppliers. They continually strive for progress which is why they're gaining market share despite the economy being as it is. They will also sacrifice profit for the benefit of their customers. The double refund and replacement rule? My OH spent 3 hours at work the other day with a woman who drove into a wall. Not their wall, a council wall outside. He brought her in, got her a coffee and a bun. Rang the council for her, rang her insurers for her. He then sent one of his partners down the road to get her daughter to come and collect her. I can assure you my OHs time is very expensive to the business but they value their customers so that is the service they provide. 

I have more examples but am getting tired but PM me if you do want to hear others.


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## Ranyhyn (9 February 2011)

I was looking into sourcing locally produced meat, we have a lovely farm shop very close.  Once I have asked to see how their animals are kept I think I'll switch from supermarket meat once and for all.
Treating animals like that, however commonplace, is wrong.  They deserve some respect when alive and not to be made to feel fear and pain.

Shame on everyone involved.


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## mon (9 February 2011)

there will always br creulty im every species even humans on humans doesnt make it right but vsry sad fact some humans are just evil.


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## SavingGrace (9 February 2011)

Poor ducklings


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## Ranyhyn (9 February 2011)

Someone I work with said the other day - not overly seriously:

Is it better we give animals a great life, make them happy and fulfilled or give them a crap one and make them beg for death...

It's just that attitude to the food we eat that perpetuates this issue, as Alec says, we create this problem ourselves!


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## doris2008 (9 February 2011)

My god. People laugh at my morals when it comes to meat but that just proves me right. It makes me absolutley sick to the stomach. I point blank refuse to eat any meat which I dont know the history of. If I can't afford the price of it, I wont eat it. End of.
I think any kind of cage/barn reared poultry should be banned. If that means meat gets too expensive for some, then tough in my opinion. Eat something else. Very black and white but I just cant justify the need in my head.


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## BBH (9 February 2011)

Truly shocking. 

I don't buy meat from the supermarkets now because of welfare issues,  you just don't know where its come from, how its been treated or whats in it.

I eat mainly veggie now and if I do buy meat its from a local source where I know how its reared.

Unfortunately I can't see this sort of abuse ever being eradicated because there are so  many people who need to eat cheaply and don't consider animal welfare.


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## applecart14 (9 February 2011)

That won't please Jamie Oliver. He is patron on the British Hen Welfare Trust and he supports Sainsburys with their adverts.


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## ladyt25 (9 February 2011)

To be honest I don't find it surprising or shocking at all. I think it is appalling but it doesn't shock me the way birds and indeed other animals intensely bred and reared are treated. I think what shocks and appalls me more though is that the general public don't seem to be aware at all of what goes on and where their meat comes from and i don't think a lot of them care as they have no concept of animal welfare. 

I think ALL supermarkets should properly monitor their suppliers ALL their suppliers and prices should reflect the quality and care that has been put in. The problem is people see meat as being something they can have when they want and they want it as cheaply as they can get it. In my opinion that is wrong. Meat used to be a luxury food item, it was expensive. I think it should still be expensive and then the demand wouldn't be so much that farmers feel forced into the position of these intensive methods just to make ends meet. there is no excuse for cruelty but do people see how birds and other animals are killed in general anyway? I don't imagine it's all sweetness and light and the cows, pigs, sheep and birds go skipping in to be stunned, have their throats slit or have a captive bolt shoved into their brain!

I am vegetarian although not for these issues - i have been veggie since I was very young, way before I knew about these things (i just did not like meat). Now if i did eat meat I think I would have to think very hard about where it came from. 

Thankfully know my veg and quorn hasn't been so mistreated!!!! ;-)


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## EAST KENT (9 February 2011)

If you must consume dead animals and birds then just accept that all of it is killed ,and there never is a pretty way to kill so that it is eatable.No matter how the creature lived it`s life it dies in an unpretty way to unneccessarily fill your stomach, saying it lived well just salves your conscience. Be it Waitrose or Tesco`s they all sell dead animals,to get precious about duck treatment that happens daily on almost any duck  farm is ridiculous.
  My dogs are carnivores ....I do not need to be thanks.


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## Honey08 (9 February 2011)

At a friend's party last year I got talking to a pig farmer who reared pigs for Waitrose.  He said their welfare checks were better than any other supermarket that he had supplied..

As for the "local farm shops".  Where I like the idea of them, around us, they are run by the most self centred greedy farms in the area, who know how to market their "locally reared" produce to the yummy mummy brigade that trot off feeling good about their "green" ethics.  The farmers don't give a stuff about the animals.  So what if the produce is reared locally?  Its how it lived and how far it travelled to abbatoir that bothers me.

Having rescued some ex-battery hens six months ago, it was sad how little instinct for normal life they had - only in the last month have they finally become free range - choosing to be outside wandering about!

As someone said, many of our poultry comes from abroad - I work for a major airline, and a large percentage of our cargos (on passenger planes) is live chicks.

As someone said, most people don't give a thought to anything other than themselves - and therefore price.  I always buy freerange meat, but its so much more expensive (although so much nicer too).   It is so true that it is us the consumer that dictates how the animals are reared and killed...


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## mon (9 February 2011)

problem not many abatoirs around in northamptonshire use to be Buswells at blisworth, baxters at wooten, ABP at wellingborough all gone so have to travel further no choice


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## eahotson (10 February 2011)

Alec Swan said:



			I'm sorry to tell you that the practices viewed within the duck catching vid,  are common practice,  within all aspects of the poultry industry.

When you buy your cheap poultry from your local supermarket,  regardless of the bird species,  then you demand ever cheaper food.  There's only one way that cheap food can be produced,  and that's by cutting corners.

Are you aware,  that all commercially produced poultry,  from the day that they hatch,  are fed a permanent diet of antibiotics?  Is this why we,  as humans, have complaints,  which are ever more resistant to antibiotics?  

Poultry are kept in buildings,  containing many thousands of their kind,  and the deformed and dying,  are left to their own devices,  and still the Foods Standards Agency turn a blind eye to the way that our commercial poultry are produced.

Who's responsible for this?  *You are.* Your constant demand for cheaper meat,  and your support of the supermarkets fosters such practices,  *despite* what they will claim.

So Waitrose have distanced themselves from the suppliers filmed,  have they?  If they took the same action,  against all those suppliers who could be filmed,  carrying out atrocities,  they'd end up with no suppliers at all!!

Carrying a duck,  by its neck,  is actually acceptable.  It sounds awful,  but no harm comes to the bird.  The really disgraceful displays occur before the ducks are "caught",  and before slaughter.

*All of the major supermarkets* are very well aware of the treatment meted out to the poultry which they buy,  and so should you be.

Alec.
		
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Well said Alec.Just where DO you go for humely reared meat though.


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## mon (10 February 2011)

rear it yourself, or get to know farmer and make own judgement. but ow top of rearing cost transport and abatoir costs mi=ount up we do lambs but try to sell half or whole lambs or left with lot of  breast and shoulder


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## Oliver12 (10 February 2011)

I'm finding it harder and harder to buy organic, free-range meat. Most weeks I don't even bother eating meat or eggs but occasionally I'd like to. I've asked my local Asda and Sainsbury's for more choice but they say they have no demand.

It's interesting what Honey08 said about farm shops. When you try and pin them down to exactly "how" the animals are kept, they are usually quite evasive and just keep harping on about "locally produced" and "high quality diet". Whilst this is important I want to know if these animals have ever seen the light of day.

I kept my horses on a farm a few years ago which has since gone into chicken production. The chickens are kept in huge buildings which stink. But some loophole means he can call these chickens free-range and off they go to the local farm shops where the unsuspecting public buy them.

I've decided to take on a few ex-battery hens for my supply of eggs as my copy of Viva which arrived yesterday has upset me so much with their expose of the egg industry.


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## Honey08 (10 February 2011)

Oliver I'd highly reccomend the ex batts - once you've bought the coop and fenced off where they will live, they don't cost much to keep  at all, and lay  the most delicious, enormous eggs!  We have had four or five eggs a day all winter from six hens.  Also its so nice to see them grow back their feathers and learn to scratch and run around.


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## Ranyhyn (10 February 2011)

EK I disagree totally.  You don't have to accept the inhumane treatment of animals in order to eat them.

I don't think its inhumane or horrible for a duck to be out enjoying itself and then be picked up and have its neck broken.  Before it knows what is happening its gone.  Then we eat it.  That is entirely acceptable to me.  What is not acceptable is for that duck to live a shite life, be kicked and swung round and die frightened.

I think its a whole different argument to talk about wether we need to eat meat etc while we do eat meat we should all be trying our best to ensure the meat we eat was farmed and killed as humanely as possible.

Agree with whoever said that if in pursuit of that, meat becomes too expensive for most to eat then we just don't eat it - fair enough.

Wether then that puts a lot of UK farmers out of business then that's really bad, BUT we have to keep humane killing and welfare at the forefront of our dealings with animals I think.


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## Ranyhyn (10 February 2011)

We get our eggs from my grandfathers allotment - and the yolks on those eggs, they are something else - those are happy chooks!!!


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## Oliver12 (10 February 2011)

Kitsune said:



			I don't think its inhumane or horrible for a duck to be out enjoying itself and then be picked up and have its neck broken.  Before it knows what is happening its gone.  Then we eat it.  That is entirely acceptable to me.  What is not acceptable is for that duck to live a shite life, be kicked and swung round and die frightened
		
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Couldn't agree more. I have no problem with an animal being slaughtered for meat - horses included. It is the life they live which is most important.

I also think that we eat, and expect to eat, too much meat. My grandparents maybe had a joint on Sundays, cold leftovers on Monday and then the scraps turned into a broth. I have friends who think they are hard done to if they don't have their meat every day.

I splashed out on a free-range organic turkey at Christmas which cost me £75. Friends thought I was barking but I really would not have enjoyed Christmas dinner knowing my turkey had lived a miserable life.

Honey08 - I definitely will take on ex-battery hens. I'm just trying to persuade my husband that they will be safe as we do have foxes which visit the garden. I was hoping that they would be able to wander around the garden and then go into the coop at night or do you think they would be better in a permanently fenced off area?


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## Paddydou (10 February 2011)

I come from a farming back ground and several of us are veggies but have no problems eating meat. 

On all the farms my various family members have worked on, owned etc the animals welfare has always been the highest priority. A distressed animal is not going to produce any where near as much nor the quality as a happy one. Those ducks did not need to be picked up like that, a simple board held between 2 people and slowly herded would have been cheaper on labour and easier for all.

Good food doesn't need to cost a fortune nor does it need to be handled in such a fashion. 

You will always get a bad apple in any basket but on the whole instead of going free range or organic I make sure I buy British. That was all the farmers have to comply with strict laws regarding welfare and if they act in an unsavoury manner like this someone will find out and they will loose out.

I am with Alec. Source your meat carefully. I can't profess to do so all the time but I do make attempts as and when I can. I also don't eat that much meat. Eggs will come from non other than my gorgeous rescue chooks. I have several people (including my postman) who love their eggs and they are always in demand because they taste better and are of a better quality than shop brought. Having seen the state they were in and seen them progress to happy, fiesty little madams I will never again buy anything other than free range eggs. Though their ideas of free range and mine are completely different!


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## Honey08 (10 February 2011)

They could be in the garden, but foxes will come at any time, and if you already have them in the garden they would probably be gone!  They don't have much instinct for running away - they just squat down if they're worried! Ours have an area 15m wide and the length of six stables (L shaped) that has high mesh fencing.  It is grass on hardcore, and the fence is dug into the ground as the foxes will dig under too if they want the hens!  They love scratching around and eating the grass - they have cleared this area completely already. We have another bit that their run will extend into soon.  They do make a fair mess- they'd scratch your garden and flower pots etc, so it depends if you mind that or not.  I prefer them with a dedicated area.  That could be just me - they are at the stables, and I like everything swept and tidy muckheaps - they love scratching it all down! They put themselves to bed at night!


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## Oliver12 (11 February 2011)

Thanks for that info. Plenty to think about but maybe a fenced in run would be more sensible. I do like my garden also. Funny you should mention them scratching about in muckheaps. My horses go to my friends place for their winter holidays as he has about 12 acres divided into two fields - one for his two horses and one for mine. It drives me mad when I muckpick as the poo is literally scattered everywhere which takes me ages to pick up. I pile it in a corner which is also scattered yet his half of the field has nice tidy piles which are easy to pick up. I caught a few of his chickens in my field scattering poo everywhere and can only think its because I feed sunflower seeds which have probably passed through undigested and they are foraging for them. Its funny to watch them though.


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## Kenzo (11 February 2011)

Utterly dreadful, managed to watch most of it, wish I hadn't, hope they feel ashamed of themselves but I doubt they'd evn feel a shred of guilt.


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## jendie (11 February 2011)

We've had our ex batt hens for about 18 months now and I'd highly recommend them to anyone! They looked very sorry for themselves when they first arrived and it has been lovely to watch them grow into fully feathered, happy characters. They settled very quickly and were free ranging from the time we let them out of the coop (need a couple of days to learn where they live >g<). They've laid from the day they arrived, including throughout the winter months. Hens aren't as stupid as some people think, they have individual characters. If I go to sit on a bench near them one or two will almost always jump up to sit next to me. I hate to think of their former lives and am glad I have them now.


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## applecart14 (11 February 2011)

Oliver12 said:



			I'm finding it harder and harder to buy organic, free-range meat. Most weeks I don't even bother eating meat or eggs but occasionally I'd like to. I've asked my local Asda and Sainsbury's for more choice but they say they have no demand.

It's interesting what Honey08 said about farm shops. When you try and pin them down to exactly "how" the animals are kept, they are usually quite evasive and just keep harping on about "locally produced" and "high quality diet". Whilst this is important I want to know if these animals have ever seen the light of day.

I kept my horses on a farm a few years ago which has since gone into chicken production. The chickens are kept in huge buildings which stink. But some loophole means he can call these chickens free-range and off they go to the local farm shops where the unsuspecting public buy them.

I've decided to take on a few ex-battery hens for my supply of eggs as my copy of Viva which arrived yesterday has upset me so much with their expose of the egg industry.
		
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If you look on my photos under my username you will see photos of ex battery hens that we've rehomed.  I do voluntary work for the BHWT (Battery Hen Welfare Trust) where I have attended a farm and helped to crate up a load of hens for rehoming on the same day.  I have to say the hens are normally not too bad in terms of condition and body weight, although you do get the odd one.  Farmers are not monsters and have a living to make same as everyone else. The BHWT works in conjunction with and not against farmers.   DEFRA guidelines with hens insist that hens are taken out of battery cages to be crated upside down by their legs. The reason for this is because the birds relax and do not flap about and it is easier for them to be held in this way although it looks cruel and unorthodox. Sometimes this can involve holding five or six birds in each hand, a task which was quite daunting to me as a first timer, and one which I wasn't keen to repeat much as I want to help again.  So if the DEFRA rules state that ducks should be handled by their necks (which I would be very surprised about) then this method should be used.  But throwing them about is obviously not acceptable to DEFRA or anyone else.


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## EAST KENT (12 February 2011)

Caught and have it`s neck broken immediately? To achieve that it would be a case of home rearing. ALL poultry intended for the table are grabbed by the legs for chooks (four in each hand) then stuffed into carry crates;if they are "lucky" the farm has a killing unit..like the one I live beside. Watching the film I can see nothing unusual at all,and as for the deads and dying..well one of the daily jobs is removing the ten or so birds that die each day in the unit which housed five thousand per shed . If not ,they are then transported on an open lorry to a killing depot Lord knows where!
  To attain the standards you seem to believe are normal it is def a case for home rearing only;we did just that way back with pigs for our own consumption..and the abbatoir was only a mile away,so it was a short drive in the back of my estate,maybe five minutes total.That particular abbatoir bedded them down well and were humane,no squeals were ever heard,but that was exceptional.
   So many chooks are badly bruised,even wings broken ,on their last journey,and the worst ones end up in pet food.Don`t kid yourself,
these are the facts. To feed you animals suffer to a greater or lesser degree,please don`t pretend ignorance,go and work in a MEAT poutry unit for a while and then report back


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## Ranyhyn (12 February 2011)

"to attain the standards you think are normal"

EK what are you talking about - where did anyone say it was normal to treat animals the right way?  Sadly it _isnt_ normal.  Simply because it's difficult to achieve doesn't mean people should simply stop striving for the absolute best treatment of our meat does it?

The point is removing yourself from the market completely doesn't really achieve anything, whereas putting money into the _right_ market, the ones who treat animals well, does achieve something.

Simply not eating meat isn't saving anything but your conscience!


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## ColandMe (12 February 2011)

Truly sickening but don't know why anyone's surprised. Intensely reared, factory farmed animals suffer like no animal should. There are sick individuals in many abattoirs that get some sort of twisted pleasure in making animals suffer as much as they can before killing. CCTV should be installed anywhere that animals are being killed.
I agree with what some other posters have said, if consumers didn't want to eat cheap meat every day you could afford to buy better quality of meat with some assurance of hopefully a decent life and as humane end as possible.
The fact is though, animals die so people can eat them, where you buy it from is a matter for your own conscience. 

http://www.gopetition.com/petition/39932.html


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## Alec Swan (12 February 2011)

Kitsune said:



			.......EK what are you talking about - where did anyone say it was normal to treat animals the right way?  Sadly it _isnt_ normal.  Simply because it's difficult to achieve doesn't mean people should simply stop striving for the absolute best treatment of our meat does it?.......
		
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I'm sorry Kitty,  but you're wrong,  and EK is right.  Supermarket buyers,  are  governed by their employers.  They have shareholders to consider,  and if you have money invested through deposit accounts,  then unwittingly,  you may well be one of them.  

They have to buy meat,  as cheaply as they can,  and they do this by screwing down their suppliers,  to the point where the farm profit margin is little more than a joke.  

If the methods employed,  within the UK,  were monitored to the point where we produced poultry in an ethical manner,  then the whole industry would die,  for the simple reason that either the suppliers would go out of business,  or our poultry requirements would be sourced from abroad,  and if you think that the film which you witnessed was bad,  it was nothing compared with what goes on in other countries.

I don't like it any more than you do,  but it's the way that it is. 

Alec.


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## EAST KENT (12 February 2011)

I am simply saying Kitsune that the video was normal practice in poultry meat farms,it ain`t right..but it happens every day of the week. Therefore to achieve your ideal of a beast knowing nothing and not suffering before being killed it has to be home reared..or of course there is game meat,shot accurately.
   There is never a pretty way to die in slaughterhouses,the distances to get animals to the slaughterhouses are getting greater,meaning much more travelling stress. That is`nt the farmer`s fault,it is DEFRA`s daft rules.
   The truth of meat production is not pleasant, it is hypocritical to claim otherwise;no, I no longer eat any meat simply becase I am honest enough to see the meat trade as it is and choose not to endorse it .

    However,there is currantly a couple of wild shot bunnies in the slow cooker for my OH,and of course fresh road kills would be fair game too. Just not organised murder for us though!!


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## Ranyhyn (12 February 2011)

Ok so I vote with my feet and choose to eat home reared meat.  I think that's a prudent decision?


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## EAST KENT (12 February 2011)

That`s right..join the club;or wild shot or road kill..there`s actually a pub in Deal,Ithink it is,that serves up road kill meals!


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## mymare (15 February 2011)

amandap said:



			Supermarkets also clamping down on abuse in abbatoir. I haven't watched the vid but there is a news report as well. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/03/abattoirs-supermarkets-cctv-cruelty-welfare

Click to expand...

********** b*******!!!!!!!!!!!


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