# Fed up of selling my horse!



## LeannePip (14 May 2016)

She's been up for sale for about 10 days and already I'm fed up of potentials and time wasters!

Against some peoples opinions, wrote a huge comprehensive add to hopefully answer a lot of questions and just get some serious enquiries. nope . . . i have had;

- 'Hello, could you tell me about your horse please . . .' this really bugs me because the add has so much detail in so what do you want to know . . .

- have had huge conversations with people think they seem perfect and look forward to a viewing, for them to say at the end would you be happy to loan for a year or so first . . . my add does say potential trial short loan period as horse is just coming back into work but a year is taking the biscuit.

- people call to see if i'll take £1500 less than she's advertised for, only up for £4k, on the basis of her quirks which i have already accounted for in the price and been upfront about in the advert.

- Have had a few kids emailing to see if they can loan her for the summer and send her back before school.  one even said she would have her for the summer and then sell her for a 50/50 split.  not sure the 6weeks of your time should equal the six years of my time thats gone into her!?

- people getting annoyed with me over the phone when i am honest and say i'm selling because i want to event seriously (Grassroots plus) and i don't think thats what she wants to do - as if i've mis advertised her in some way! I'm selling her as a 'fun, safe, confidence giver' and have in no-way implied that she is a serious top level competition prospect for any particular discipline! 

I just want the perfect family to show up, forgive her little foible and love her for her amazingness - she really is a wonderful horse for anyone who wants to go out and have fun doing everything and she's given me so many years of fun i just want someone to enjoy her as much as i have!

Also link to H&H add if anyone happens to be looking; http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/clas...uthampton/flashy-confidence-giver-484117.html


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## catwithclaws (14 May 2016)

I love this horse!!! Have seen you out and about on her so many times and u know how much I've admired her  selling is always rubbish, I'm sure the right person will come along soon. She'd have been ideal for me haha


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## TGM (14 May 2016)

I think you need to be more specific in your advert!

Indicate exactly what time frame of loan/trial you might contemplate.  So 'would consider a fortnight's trial to right home' or 'would consider maximum two month's loan with view to buy, with appropriate contract in place'.

Advertise her price as 'no offers' if that is the case, or 'very near offer considered'.

Start the ad with a summary of what job you think she would do - judging from the ad it would sound like she would do well as a riding club/pony club showjumper / hunter or low level dressage horse (you don't give any details of the scores she gets, if good scores then state usually '65 per cent plus at Prelim/Novice').  I think anyone with a bit of experience will read between the lines that she is not a consistent event horse being a little bit nappy and not good with water.  However, I'd still reword the bit that says she is 'great XC' - if she is a bit nappy leaving the start box and hesitant with water then she wouldn't be 'great XC' in my book and encourages people to enquire who want to event her.  Perhaps could be reworded to say something along the lines of 'I am selling her because I want to compete at BE100 plus, and she is not quite brave enough XC for this job').

From your description, she sounds a little over-priced.  She is not a total confidence-giver for a more novice rider as she can be a bit nappy, but perhaps hasn't got enough potential for the more experienced rider.  If that is not the case, then you need to make that clearer, particularly with regards showjumping results and dressage scores.  



Hope that helps explain how the advert reads to an 'outsider'!


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## be positive (14 May 2016)

I think that the photos show a horse that looks as if it is a competition horse that would go on, normally photos are not good enough in this case I think they are better than a £4k horse which will be a bit conflicting with your target market of a lower level home, the fact you mention her napping behaviour twice in the ad will put off the more knowledgeable  person wanting a confidence giver as that is contradictory in my view.

You almost say too much, trying too hard to be honest makes the ad rather confusing, I would cut it back, change the photos to show less talent and target a RC lady looking for low key fun, getting the ad right is half the battle when selling, it cuts out the timewasters and makes the right people get in touch, putting in too much detail can be as detrimental as not putting in enough.

She is a lovely mare who should be snapped up at that money.


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## LeannePip (14 May 2016)

No, Thank you! I really appreciate the feed back and will edit the add to reflect your comments i can definitely add the scores a pitch her at he beginning as a pony club/ RC horse to be more specific.

But i don't think she's over priced as a fun all rounder £4k for something that; you can hunt one weekend, dressage the next, showjump consistently the next week, take to the beach/ fun rides and never have to worry about being bolted or bucked with, not a dirty stopper and easy to have around at home, is not a lot.  

I just want to be honest about her, the napping is more annoying than anything as its not overtime or even a regular thing or anything that i can see/find that causes it just some days she just doesn't want to hack alone, but she has been with a fairly 'green' home for the last year and they've hacked her and it not caused an issue.  Not really sure what to do for the best don't mention it and disclose it on the call and risk false advertising or just trying to fight her corner when people call and ask about it?


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## TGM (14 May 2016)

LeannePip said:



			a fun all rounder that you can hunt one weekend, dressage the next, showjump consistently the next week, take to the beach/ fun rides and never have to worry about being bolted or bucked with, not a dirty stopper and easy to have around at home
		
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So that is (approximately) what you should put as the first line of your advert.  You can then add something along the lines that she is 'for sale as she is not quite brave enough XC to fulfil your eventing ambitions', to deter those looking for a cheap Grassroots eventer.


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## Happy Ponies (14 May 2016)

She's a beautiful little mare! I think though as you have said in the advert she has been in a hacking home and needs a bit of work to get her back up to competing maybe include some more recent photos of her and maybe a conformation picture?


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## TGM (14 May 2016)

In fact I'd word along the following lines:

"Are you looking for a fun all rounder that you can hunt one weekend, dressage the next, show jump consistently the following week, take to the beach/ fun rides and never have to worry about being bolted or bucked with and is easy to have around at home.  Then Pip is the one for you.  Very reluctantly for sale, as she is not quite brave enough XC to fulfil my eventing ambitions."

I'd take out the 'flashy' in the title - just encourages the wrong sort of buyer for the horse.

Make the lead photo on the ad one of her showjumping or dressaging, not XC as that will attract more people looking for an eventer.  Probably best to title the ad "Fun All-Rounder".


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## xspiralx (14 May 2016)

I agree with TGM.

I'm actually looking for a horse at the moment and came across your ad when searching - I moved on quite quickly as I'm looking for something to jump 1.10+ with, but for me reading the ad, the fact that you've mentioned the napping twice would suggest to me that it was a fairly significant issue. Also it does make her seem overpriced and it come across as a contradiction - I wouldn't expect a confidence giver to nap.

If it's minor and a sporadic issue I would remove from the ad and just mention it to people when they call.


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## ester (14 May 2016)

Honestly? 
have seen her ad on fb and from that I thought you rather upsold her given the issues she has had recently. Also obviously I know why you have bought a new one but the ad read as though she would be perfect for what you want to do/someone with similar ambitions. That was just the feeling I got from it. 
I assume the stifles aren't an issue any more/she has no special keep requirements as iirc she had to be kept out as much as possible previously?
Also saying she is a schoolmistress/confidence giver that naps seems a bit of an oxymoron. Is she a low level competition school mistress? Realistically your target 'fun' market will want to hack/rely on hacking to keep horses fit etc. 

Don't get me wrong I think she is a great mare, but to me the ad didnt really add up to what I know of her from your postings on here.


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## splashgirl45 (14 May 2016)

she sounds like the type I would want if I was looking but the mention of nappyness in the ad  would completely put me off and I wouldn't even phone.  agree with TGM  with the revised wording and would like a confirmation shot from the side with no tack as well as a flat and jumping one.   I wouldn't mention napping till someone actually comes to see her as you say it is occasional and not violent..and if it hasn't been a problem with her loan home you may find in a happy hack/local riding club type home she may not do it at all....good luck


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## TGM (14 May 2016)

ester said:



			Honestly? 
have seen her ad on fb and from that I thought you rather upsold her given the issues she has had recently. Also obviously I know why you have bought a new one but the ad read as though she would be perfect for what you want to do/someone with similar ambitions. That was just the feeling I got from it. 
I assume the stifles aren't an issue any more/she has no special keep requirements as iirc she had to be kept out as much as possible previously?
Also saying she is a schoolmistress/confidence giver that naps seems a bit of an oxymoron. Is she a low level competition school mistress? Realistically your target 'fun' market will want to hack/rely on hacking to keep horses fit etc. 

Don't get me wrong I think she is a great mare, but to me the ad didnt really add up to what I know of her from your postings on here.
		
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Oh, I didn't think to check back history on here.  If the horse you are selling is the one below I do think you need to declare the medical issues to any potential buyers:

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?660091-Locking-Stifle-Treatment-Nightmare


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## ester (14 May 2016)

I should add by management does she still require ulcer supplements too?

I just think with her history, knowing that she needs bringing back into work it would seem a bit of a gamble to buy her and assume none of these issues will come up again, add to that the nappiness and although I do think she is a fab type of mare it is a lot of risk for someone to take IMO.


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## debsflo (14 May 2016)

I've seen your ad and although she's the height and stamp and price I want I was put off by the use of flashy as thought she would be on the sharper side plus the napping is not what I want. Having said that I prefer lots of info in the ad as Will not waste mine or others time if not suited. She would be perfect for my daughter who would not be phased.


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## jaffa2311 (14 May 2016)

Would she pass a vetting?

It seems bizarre that you haven't been honest enough to include her medical history, which is the reason you bought another horse, as she kept going wrong. 

I wouldn't pay 4k for a horse with a chronic stifle problem, ulcers and a tendon injury last year, that also naps occasionally.


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## FlyingCircus (14 May 2016)

Sorry, but no way would I be paying 4k for a horse with stifle issues (and tendon injury?) as well as history of ulcers.

Even at half that price, it would be taking a punt and I'm not sure I'd want to risk 2k on a horse that has a history of going wrong either!


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## only_me (14 May 2016)

I'd just put in that she's a good, competitive riding/pony club type who is easy to deal with. Take out the word nappy as she actually sounds like she tends to be backward thinking at times. Just need to say that she is a bit green xc as you didn't do much with her, but has been out hunting & jumped everything asked. Potential to do grassroots with the right rider.
Change flashy to fun. 
You can add in the hacking bit, but tbh I would leave out & if a person rings up you can explain, it's easier to explain the backward bits talking than writing online!

Ets. I don't know about medical stuff on her but things can heal - if it's a previous tendon problem then you could just say that becuase of this will be low level riding club type


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## SpringArising (14 May 2016)

Pips only downside is occasionally she can be reluctant to hack on her own, shes always fine in company and also fine if you take her away from home on her own. However saying this, Pip has been in a hacking only home for the last year where she has hacked on her own and in company and has not caused an issue.
		
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This part is confusing and contradictory - does she or doesn't she nap? If it's not an issue then I would be questioning (as a buyer) why you mentioned it in the ad.

I also think anyone would be bonkers to pay 4K for a horse with ongoing or at least unsolved stifle issues.


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## Leo Walker (15 May 2016)

TGM said:



			In fact I'd word along the following lines:

"Are you looking for a fun all rounder that you can hunt one weekend, dressage the next, show jump consistently the following week, take to the beach/ fun rides and never have to worry about being bolted or bucked with and is easy to have around at home.  Then Pip is the one for you.  Very reluctantly for sale, as she is not quite brave enough XC to fulfil my eventing ambitions."

I'd take out the 'flashy' in the title - just encourages the wrong sort of buyer for the horse.

Make the lead photo on the ad one of her showjumping or dressaging, not XC as that will attract more people looking for an eventer.  Probably best to title the ad "Fun All-Rounder".
		
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Honestly, even without the stifle/tendon issues then 4k+ is a steep price for something that naps. It might well just be something that needs a kick on to go and therefore no issue, but it would put me off massively. People who want nice RC allrounders want something thats straightforward and easy. They want to go up, hop on and ride, and always having to hack in company is a pain in the bum! People looking for a good grassroots horse might overlook it as they could ride through it, but if you are selling her as she cant do that then it limits her market.

I spent about 8 months horse shopping for a friend just over a year ago. She would have considered your mare as she is a confident rider, the same way she considered youngsters and horses needing a step down. All she wanted to do was ride and do the odd RC thing. Perfect sort of home for her. But she wouldnt have paid 4k for her, and thats before we take into account that shes been in a low level hacking home for a year and theres a question mark over her soundness. 

Its difficult pricing horses. There is a psychological phenomenon that causes people to value things they own much higher than things they are looking to buy. Ask yourself realistically what you would pay for her if you were viewing her to buy. I love my boy and hes priceless to me, but hes not priceless to the people who would be interested in buying him if I sold him


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## benz (15 May 2016)

I like your ad (and your horse!) and in fact I showed it to a friend a week or so ago who contacted you to arrange to meet but you never got back to her so she assumed horse had sold. Or perhaps you didn't think it was the right home, but it is polite just to drop a line 

Eta - just read the whole thread and if it is the same horse with the stifle probs she wouldn't suit my friend anyway.


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## rachk89 (15 May 2016)

I am a little confused by the fact you say she can jump 1m for showjumping and xc and even has the potential to go higher. She can do all jumps but bit wary of water but with right rider that will not be an issue.

So considering grassroots includes 90 to 100 as a prospective buyer I am now questioning why you want rid of her since to you she can do that? I may not be understanding eventing right but that is what BE says grassroots is. So your ad says she can do grassroots level in a way then says she can't. Possibly why people are confused and aren't calling.


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## LeannePip (15 May 2016)

Thanks for all replies, I haven't read in detail ATM but just wanted to pick up on a couple of points about medical history, I don't think these are usually listed in an advert but I have fully disclosed all issues to interested parties that have called, r.e the stifles these were treated as a 5/6yo and haven't been an issue since and she's happy in a normal yard routine I.e turned out daily but has had to have the odd day in for bad weather and this isn't an issue.  We did treat her for ulcers and this was resolved in sure that can be said for a lot of horses. And the tendon was much of a nothing, she came in lame with a fat leg so vet came out and we box rested her for 2/3 weeks by which pint she was almost sound vet scanned the tendon and didn't find anything atall so we rested until sound and scanned again still nothing so she came back into work which is when she went hacking for the year to see how she'd gone and she's been 100% ever since.  But I have told everyone who has enquired that this was the reason for going out on loan.  

I really am not trying to deceive any one she is a cracking horse who has had issues, the hacking was a major issue at 5yo but I would say this is mostly resolved now 3 years later.  Do people really expect to buy horses that have never had problems requiring veterinary treatment? 

Benz I'm sorry if I didn't get back to your friend I have replied to all messages I have had and returned phone calls and left messages if no answer so do apologise if this was missed but I can't find anything else?


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## Exploding Chestnuts (15 May 2016)

Just cut out the waffle, which is confusing people, horse is open to vet, and a good all round RC type, suited to capable teenager.
Horse is for sale.  Do not say anything about loan  /  trial


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## Goldenstar (15 May 2016)

Bonkers2 said:



			Just cut out the waffle, which is confusing people, horse is open to vet, and a good all round RC type, suited to capable teenager.
Horse is for sale.  Do not say anything about loan  /  trial
		
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I agree to much waffle .
But honestly with a minor nap with past health issues I think she may well be overpriced for the market .
Selling things anything except food off supermarket shelves requires effort , selling horses requires considerable effort and time and patience .


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## TGM (15 May 2016)

LeannePip said:



			Do people really expect to buy horses that have never had problems requiring veterinary treatment?
		
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No they don't.  However, they do normally tend to clear of horses that have had soundness problems that may reoccur.  Rightly or wrongly, they are likely to be wary of a horse who has serious problems with upwards fixation of the patella in the past, particularly if the problem has regularly occurred when the horse has been in work, as opposed to occasional UFP in an unbroken youngster.  I agree that you don't necessarily need to mention it in the advert, but would expect such veterinary history to be declared by the seller and obviously it should be reflected in the price of the horse.


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## stormox (15 May 2016)

I am a bit confused by the fact you describe her in the title as 'Flashy Confidence Giver' then go on to say she can nap in the start box, and out hacking on her own.  If I was looking for a confidence giver I certainly wouldnt buy one with even the trace of a nap. Naps only get worse with unconfident riders.


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## ester (15 May 2016)

I do think in which case you have to be aware that you will get a lot of enquiries that go cold once you tell them about the stifles. Given her previous issues + the napping I think she is well overpriced I'm afraid.
And yes for 4k I might expect for a horse to have had one issue, not 3 at her age. And as many say on here, why would you buy trouble when you aren't looking for something amazingly talented that over rides that.


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## SpringArising (15 May 2016)

LeannePip said:



			And the tendon was much of a nothing, she came in lame with a fat leg so vet came out and we box rested her for 2/3 weeks by which pint she was almost sound vet scanned the tendon and didn't find anything atall so we rested until sound and scanned again still nothing so she came back into work which is when she went hacking for the year to see how she'd gone and she's been 100% ever since.  But I have told everyone who has enquired that this was the reason for going out on loan.
		
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I think the problem is that anyone serious enough to hand over upwards of 4K is going to want to see that she can stand up to the work you've said she's capable of in the ad. 

The way you've written the post indicates that she had a tendon injury, so she was sent to a hacking home for a year, and now she's able to go on and do everything she could before. It's a big gamble to buy on that basis because there's no proof that her tendon/stifles are going to be OK in "hard" work. And it's relatively easy to have a horse be sound as a happy hacker. 

I'd also be peed off if I took the time to ring someone and only then did they tell me of all these problems. 

I expect any issues the horse has had to be in the ad, so I can make an informed decision there and then. 

You say "do people really expect every issue the horse has had to be in the ad?" and the answer is yes, if the issues are as big as hers are - especially with a price tag like that.

Sometimes you just have to take a loss with horses and admit that they're not worth what you want them to be worth.


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## Micky (15 May 2016)

Do you know..you can write up absolutely everything in the advert and still get muppets coming along asking questions that are written down in black and white...it took me a year to sell my daughters horse..specifically saying not up for hunting or eventing as getting on in years, bit stiff but great for hacking low level jumping and dressage....still had people coming and saying yes wee are going to hunt him, event him or even funnier, he should be fit living out in this field...hang on in there, the right person will come along, 10 days is not a long time! Put at the end of ad, no long term loans or whatever it is you aren't offering! Good luck


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## SusieT (15 May 2016)

4K would be for a horse that has no medical history that could recur (e.g simple cuts or wounds), that DOESNT nap - a horse that will nap is not a confidence giver as if you put a nappy horse together with a nervous rider you can bet the napping will deteriorate.
Advertise her for 3kg as a fun riding club allrounder who needs a confident rider to hack alone and I bet you get more enquiries.


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## SO1 (15 May 2016)

This horse cannot be a confidence giver all rounder if it naps in the start box and also is not reliable to hack out alone. For someone who is nervous this may be frightening behaviour and if it requires positive riding this behaviour may get worse with someone who is not confident to deal with.

The horse has not competed for a while and appears to have had a medical problem - will she pass a vetting and how will a potential purchaser know after the medical issues if the horse will return to how it was before?

If she is a good hunter and you think physically she will withstand the level of work to hunt again I would advertise her as hunter as then the napping may not be such a big issue as she would mainly be jumping in company unless of course they wanted to hack out alone.

It is a lot of money for a horse that has been out of competitive work for a year and has had medical issues. For start a potential buyer for that money is probably going to want to try her over fences and if she only been hacking is going to be fit enough to be jumped at a decent height for viewings?


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## Goldenstar (15 May 2016)

I have to agree with the napping in the start box .
If a novicey friend wanting a fun low level horse was looking a horse and told me it did that I would tell her to look for another it's a confidence sapping thing for a horse to do with people who ride at a low level for fun.
OP what are her manners like out hunting if she's a really good hunter mannerly straightforward and snaffle mouthed who you can ride all day without being exhausted why don't you market her as a safe hunter a little later in the summer .


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## FestiveFuzz (15 May 2016)

I'm looking at the moment and must admit I skipped past your ad when I saw she naps as I've just sold my boy who naps, not because I wasn't capable of riding him but as it was a pain in the backside to keep having battles when I do the majority of hacking alone. 

Now knowing her medical history I would wonder if the napping was linked to pain and realistically would wonder whether she'd be up to the level of work I'd want her for given she's been in a happy hack home for the past year. I've recently had an hour long chat about a horse that on paper sounded ideal...but that they slipped in on the call had had many soundness issues and may not pass a vetting. I felt pretty miffed that they wasted my time and in turn that I wasted theirs when had they mentioned the issues in the ad I'd have never picked up the phone in the first place. Therefore it's likely to be less frustrating all round if you mention said issues in the ad to start with, though I suspect you may need to reconsider the price to be a little more realistic.


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## xspiralx (15 May 2016)

Honestly I think to justify the price you would need to have her back in full work to ensure she will stand up to it and also make sure the napping issues were definitely resolved.

Otherwise it is taking a bit of a gamble for people and for that price, particularly given the market you're aiming her at, I think you might struggle.


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## ponyforever (15 May 2016)

Hi
I am currently looking, and I am in Hampshire. I thought Pip looked lovely and I very nearly phoned the day the advert went live, however, I was put off because you said she isn't fully fit.

I think it would be better if you spent a month getting her jumping fit, so she is ready to get out competing in her new home. I was immediately suspicious that she wasn't fit because she had suffered some sort of injury. It would be much better if she was fit and potential purchasers could be emailed a video of her out competing this year, instead of relying on photos from a few years back.

I also always google the seller's name and phone number, which potential purchasers can see on Horse and Hound adverts. The biggest turn off for me was finding a video called 'Naughty Pip' on your youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AP3ySwEyVYw - it is 3 years old, so you probably forgot it was there but for potential purchasers like me, it is the sort of video we don't want to see.

Best of luck with the sale, she looks lovely and I think you should get her fit and out competing and have some recent videos on youtube.


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## The Fuzzy Furry (15 May 2016)

OP, am also looking, but also did same internet search as ponyforever.
Am totally not interested in a napper, where-ever it happens to specifically nap, be it start box or on own out hacking.

Sorry, but a napper that is not fit to go out to do a job on the next weekend kills it for me at that price, also what I want has to hack on its own without napping - like most people want (yes, I can more than cope with quirks, but not learned or pain evasions)


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## Red-1 (15 May 2016)

Crikey ponyforever, I had a look and it would certainly put me off. 

Actually I would be even more out off by the "Pip's Blips" video, which is a compilation of Pip napping, rearing, bucking, spinning and refusing fences, on a variety of occasions, in a variety of different paces.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFT7zxMljFg

I too would say that with this history it would be best to get her fit and competing to ensure you can have new videos to balance out the old ones. I too would suspect a physical issue with this history (ie napping as above, then a year with no competition, then for sale, advertised as not fit.


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## The Fuzzy Furry (15 May 2016)

Red-1 said:



			Crikey ponyforever, I had a look and it would certainly put me off. 

Actually I would be even more out off by the "Pip's Blips" video, which is a compilation of Pip napping, rearing, bucking, spinning and refusing fences, on a variety of occasions, in a variety of different paces.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFT7zxMljFg

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I saw that one too 

OP, pull ALL your past vids, get her fit and then readvertise at a realistic price for what she can do then


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## Clodagh (15 May 2016)

I always tell my children anything you post can come back and bite you on the ass. Those videos prove it! Oops.


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## Leo Walker (15 May 2016)

Lock down your FB profile as well. The ad on there for loan is public and while its no doubt totally genuine, it just adds another query about why she couldnt find a loan home.


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## FfionWinnie (15 May 2016)

Unfortunately this thread and others about her are going to pose a problem. The YouTube vids are at least deletable but they've been discussed on here now.  You will need to be really careful to disclose everything because otherwise it's on here in black and white and the videos are burned into the memories of many of us. If my friend bought her I would recognise her and say what I knew, after all, if they had any issues with her. There must be loads of people who "know" her that's the thing with posting about a recognisable horse you later want to sell. 

Really she needs to be out doing what you say she can do, with the rider you say she is suitable for to get her sold.


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## LeannePip (15 May 2016)

Wow, lots of come back, i do appreciate all of the constructive feed back and i do agree with a lot of what has been said, however i really am just trying to find her a good home and not deceive any one or flog a dead horse which is why i put the napping in the advert, maybe its too honest?  as genuinely for the last year and more, it hasn't been a huge deal, its not nasty or dangerous even when she did do anything, its more just like the hand break is stuck on for a while.  It seems i cannot win either way, its not a problem at the moment so i don't put it in the ad only to upset people when they call or god forbid they get her home and she starts it again.  Or i mention it and it comes across as a huge issue which it really isn't?

Since she's been back with me the last couple of weeks she has been 100% hacking and schooling on her own, my nervous mum has had lessons on her, jumped her in the school and took her to a mini XC last week and she flew round twice with no issues at all!  For me she has always been a huge confidence giving horse which is why i have marketed her as one, she alone has given me confidence to go out and do everything and anything.

I've not sold before and both of my horses have come through people i know, i've never been properly looking for a horse so price wise i asked people around (liveries/ instructors/ yard owners) what they thought, who know her for her good points and bad and this is what came back.  I then did some research on for sale sites for horses of her level/ standard without napping issues and listed medical history and their prices were generally about £7/8k for a smart riding club horse so figured £4250kono was a good ball park place to start.  Funnily enough the only person who i've spoken to or had view that quibbled the price was the one who told me straight out they'd pay £2750!  Also looking at the other ads; barely any mentioned anything vaguely negative about the horse and i'm finding it so hard to believe that none of them have ever had issues that have been resolved vet or behavioural,  is this something that should tar them forever?  Not because i want to hide anything but because i don't think it should detract from how she is now and can be?

I do appreciate the feed back and I'm going to spend some time re-writing the add and change pictures tonight.

I just wrote this because i had just had the same conversation on the phone consecutively with three people all asking questions which were answered in the advert . . .


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## Bernster (15 May 2016)

Hiya, I won't comment on the earlier stuff and I think you've taken it all very well.  In terms of people asking about stuff already answered,they may have looked at various ads and forgotten some of the details, they might have a list of questions they are working through, or they might want to hear it from you and get you to expand. Just a thought, as it doesn't necessarily mean they are not genuine, albeit they are wasting your time, just not theirs, if you know what I mean!


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## stormox (15 May 2016)

People are going to ask questions anyway, even if stated in the advert-  its not  what you say but how you say it- and people will always think things are far worse than what you put in the ad- ie if you put 'slight tendon issue' they will assume its totally broken down. Also, Ive just looked at the video- if someone had told me she was a confidence giver, then Id seen "Aagh shes not afraid" - well I wouldnt be surprised to see it up on dodgy horse dealers FB page. That is  really bad behaviour. Shes napping in the show jumping ring and dressage arena, not just on hacks and in the start box.  She really wouldnt give a nervous rider much confidence, rather the opposite.
I think you should get her fit and competing again before you sell her, so buyers can see her out and about. Shes a nice mare and should sell, as long as she behaves and has no soundness issues.


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## TGM (15 May 2016)

LeannePip said:



			Since she's been back with me the last couple of weeks she has been 100% hacking and schooling on her own, my nervous mum has had lessons on her, jumped her in the school and took her to a mini XC last week and she flew round twice with no issues at all!
		
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So if she is doing all this now, get some videos (hacking out of the yard alone, jumping, schooling, XC etc) so you can show up-to-date videos to prospective buyers.




			i'm finding it so hard to believe that none of them have ever had issues that have been resolved vet or behavioural,  is this something that should tar them forever?
		
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Only if their owners have written about all their issues on internet forums, and posted videos of them misbehaving online!  

Seriously, though, if she had had issues a couple of years ago, but then had been seen out and about competing, hunting etc with no problems, then you would find it easier to sell her.  Your situation is different, in that she has had problems and has not yet returned consistently to the level of work you are advertising her for.  So you need to prove to buyers that she is a different horse now - take her out to some little competitions and get video and photographic evidence, get some good results that people can see online, that sort of thing.


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## PolarSkye (15 May 2016)

The Fuzzy Furry said:



			I saw that one too 

OP, pull ALL your past vids, get her fit and then readvertise at a realistic price for what she can do then 

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Great advice.  Horses change - they grow up, are schooled out of bad habits, etc. - Kali certainly did - but if I were the sort of prospective buyer you want for her and I came across that lot, I'd run a mile.

P


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## WeeLassie (15 May 2016)

I think you, having had the mare for 7 years, are so used to her and her rearing/napping that it iisn't a big deal for you. But you have to think, as you've advertised her as a 'confidence giver' 'fun horse' etc what a nervous novice would think if she did that with them. It would certainly be a 'big deal' .


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## LeannePip (15 May 2016)

stormox said:



			That is  really bad behaviour. Shes napping in the show jumping ring and dressage arena, not just on hacks and in the start box.  She really wouldnt give a nervous rider much confidence, rather the opposite.
I think you should get her fit and competing again before you sell her, so buyers can see her out and about. Shes a nice mare and should sell, as long as she behaves and has no soundness issues.
		
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Those videos are about 3/4 years old now, she was 4 or 5 there and yes she wasn't brilliant at that age but she's 8yo now so don't the horse i'm selling, i've taken the advise and taken them down but now at risk of looking like i'm hiding something!


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## FestiveFuzz (15 May 2016)

Having now seen the videos I would say unless she has vastly improved on the napping front, you've actually downplayed it in the advert. 

My boy that I've recently sold is an allrounder with no known medical issues but has a tendency to nap and buck and I sold him for half what you're asking. I was incredibly honest about his good and bad points in the ad, so much so that the first girl who viewed him bought him. Perhaps I underpriced him but in all honesty I cared more about the home he went to than the money.


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## Red-1 (15 May 2016)

LeannePip said:



			Funnily enough the only person who i've spoken to or had view that quibbled the price was the one who told me straight out they'd pay £2750!  Also looking at the other ads; barely any mentioned anything vaguely negative about the horse and i'm finding it so hard to believe that none of them have ever had issues that have been resolved vet or behavioural,  is this something that should tar them forever?  Not because i want to hide anything but because i don't think it should detract from how she is now and can be?

I just wrote this because i had just had the same conversation on the phone consecutively with three people all asking questions which were answered in the advert . . .
		
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I think that as she stands the £2750 was a fair starting point. I guess they expected to be bartered up some from there.  I do think if you get her out and about, some current form and videos, then she would be worth her asking price, as long as she behaves.

I don't think you are being too honest at all, in fact I would query her being a confidence giving ride, and that she only naps when leaving the yard alone, or in the XC box. The videos point the other way. As I said in my previous post, I would put current videos up, to balance the old ones. I would not delete the old ones, as that makes it look as if you are hiding something. If that was a phase she went through then it needs balancing with more recent ones, that is all.

As for the adverts and people calling, I always start with asking people to tell me about the horse. Written word is hard to decipher, and how my gut feeling reacts to the owner is important to me. I would like to hear it in your own words. I guess I also listen with a critical ear, to see if the story varies, it tickles my suspicions. There is a wise old saying "Always tell the truth as then you don't have to remember what you have said."

Not that I think you are lying about the horse, but it may explain why so many people would like to talk to you about what the advert says.


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## LeannePip (15 May 2016)

WeeLassie said:



			I think you, having had the mare for 7 years, are so used to her and her rearing/napping that it iisn't a big deal for you. But you have to think, as you've advertised her as a 'confidence giver' 'fun horse' etc what a nervous novice would think if she did that with them. It would certainly be a 'big deal' .
		
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I see where you are coming from, but that sort of behaviour is years in the past now, she's been out on loan hacking with a fairly in experienced home for the last year, and has not exhibited that behaviour in that time, at most, occasionally she can be reluctant initially as if the hand break is on.


I think there is a difference though in advertising a confidence giving horse and aiming one as a novice ride, i have not anywhere said she'd be good for a novice but there are people out there like me at the time (i'm sure!?) who have ridden/loaned aren't complete novices but who want a horse that will go out and give them a great safe day doing what ever they want whether its galloping around with friends, jumping big fences, playing chase me charlie, hunting on boxing day, riding on the beach, going to clinics/ lessons etc just because some one wants confidence and fun doesn't necessarily make them a nervous nelly who'd cry if the horse stomped its foot!


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## FestiveFuzz (15 May 2016)

LeannePip said:



			I see where you are coming from, but that sort of behaviour is years in the past now, she's been out on loan hacking with a fairly in experienced home for the last year, and has not exhibited that behaviour in that time, at most, occasionally she can be reluctant initially as if the hand break is on.


I think there is a difference though in advertising a confidence giving horse and aiming one as a novice ride, i have not anywhere said she'd be good for a novice but there are people out there like me at the time (i'm sure!?) who have ridden/loaned aren't complete novices but who want a horse that will go out and give them a great safe day doing what ever they want whether its galloping around with friends, jumping big fences, playing chase me charlie, hunting on boxing day, riding on the beach, going to clinics/ lessons etc just because some one wants confidence and fun doesn't necessarily make them a nervous nelly who'd cry if the horse stomped its foot!
		
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I do see what you're saying. I laughed when my boy's new owner told me she won't let anyone else ride him as he's too difficult. However the problem with my boy was he would only nap and throw his toys out of the pram with a competent rider. I could put a complete novice on him and he'd plod along like a RS horse but as soon as anyone asked for more you'd get the napping and bucking. I wonder whether it's the same with Pip, as in not a lot has been asked of her in the inexperienced hacking home.


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## LeannePip (15 May 2016)

FestiveFuzz said:



			I do see what you're saying. I laughed when my boy's new owner told me she won't let anyone else ride him as he's too difficult. However the problem with my boy was he would only nap and throw his toys out of the pram with a competent rider. I could put a complete novice on him and he'd plod along like a RS horse but as soon as anyone asked for more you'd get the napping and bucking. I wonder whether it's the same with Pip, as in not a lot has been asked of her in the inexperienced hacking home.
		
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Possibly, although still she had improved tremendously since those videos when i was riding her full time, end of 2014 beginning of 2015, i XC'd her in the 90-1ms at Iping/ Larkhill/ Dean Farm and Tweseldown and whilst she was sticky at the start after a couple of fences she was fine and got better at each event rather than worse or the same.  she was also hacking out alone at home on roads and the farm and wasn't a problem at all to show jump so i do genuinely think its something she's grown/ worked out of,  i'll keep going with her here press some buttons and get her out, the right family will come along and i won't loose any sleep because i know i have been 100% honest about every aspect of her!


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## splashgirl45 (15 May 2016)

after reading the rest of the posts I also feel that with her medical history and sometimes dodgy behaviour she is much to highly priced...she would probably be ok for someone like me who has competed in the past and has ridden some challenging horses but now only wants a happy hacker/fun ride/riding club type...I would expect her price to be nearer £2,500.....sorry you did ask for peoples comments.  I still like her though!!!!


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## LeannePip (15 May 2016)

splashgirl45 said:



			after reading the rest of the posts I also feel that with her medical history and sometimes dodgy behaviour she is much to highly priced...she would probably be ok for someone like me who has competed in the past and has ridden some challenging horses but now only wants a happy hacker/fun ride/riding club type...I would expect her price to be nearer £2,500.....sorry you did ask for peoples comments.  I still like her though!!!!
		
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And i guess this is the problem with posting and asking for advice on an open forum - no one here actually knows the horse so any comment can be construed any which way.  

Peoples nature is to remember the negative - but i've also posted on here about the time i accidentally entered her for the 90 at Tweseldown as a 5yo and despite a couple of green baby moments she was ace and stormed some meaty fences, or when she's jumped clear round some meaty showjumping despite me being the worst pilot ever.  Or taking her on several boxing day hunts and her being amazingly well behaved jumping all sorts and standing at the meet no bother at all. or the time we got lost on the way back from a hunt and ended up hacking down the verge of some A or B road and her barely flicking a whisker . . .


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## Amymay (15 May 2016)

When buying, the first thing I ask is 'can you tell me about the horse please?'  I don't care how comprehensive the add is.


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## stormox (15 May 2016)

So do I- or 'Im phoning about the horse' how else would you start the conversation?


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## Peter7917 (15 May 2016)

From a buyers point of view, if all the horse has done for the past year is hack then her past performance would have limited relevance for me. 

If she is being marketed as a low level competition horse then I would expect her to be doing that now, not over a year ago. 

IMO she is at present a glorified hack and an unreliable one at that given her napping issues and previous medical problems.

I would be expecting her to be realistically advertised at around £2000, she's a far cry from a 4k horse.


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## LeannePip (15 May 2016)

stormox said:



			So do I- or 'Im phoning about the horse' how else would you start the conversation?
		
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well i'd have thought having read the advert you may have some questions, so;

'Hi, I'm phoning about xxx, i see your advert says YYY, How are they with AAAA? I'm looking for something to do BBBBB . . . . . .'

If thats what people do thats fine, but when i'm face with 'tell me about your horse' it's like, where do you want me to start? i can babble on about her for hours but if it could turn out your looking for something to do dressage and i've been babbling on about how lovely she is to hunt!  Alt east give me a starting point or i'll just read the advert back . . .


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## LeannePip (15 May 2016)

Peter7917 said:



			From a buyers point of view, if all the horse has done for the past year is hack then her past performance would have limited relevance for me. 

If she is being marketed as a low level competition horse then I would expect her to be doing that now, not over a year ago. 

IMO she is at present a glorified hack and an unreliable one at that given her napping issues and previous medical problems.

I would be expecting her to be realistically advertised at around £2000, she's a far cry from a 4k horse.
		
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I'm sorry but i don't think it is completely irrelevant she's still the same horse and its hardly like i'm selling a 17yo harking on about how wonderful she was in her hay day several years ago.  I've said i'll be bringing her back into proper work but am happy for a trial or short loan if its preferred so you can see what you're getting.  none of this she's £xxx price now but if i carry on putting work in she'll be re-advertised for much more like you quite often see!

I've appreciated all of the useful advice given on here, i'll re do the advert but i don't think we need to be going round in circles here


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## Cowpony (15 May 2016)

Actually, when I was looking for a horse I used to do exactly that, (ie just ask a general question about the horse) because a lot of people will babble on and tell you stuff they probably didn't intend to. So it's not necessarily a daft question from a buyer's perspective!


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## be positive (15 May 2016)

LeannePip said:



			well i'd have thought having read the advert you may have some questions, so;

'Hi, I'm phoning about xxx, i see your advert says YYY, How are they with AAAA? I'm looking for something to do BBBBB . . . . . .'

If thats what people do thats fine, but when i'm face with 'tell me about your horse' it's like, where do you want me to start? i can babble on about her for hours but if it could turn out your looking for something to do dressage and i've been babbling on about how lovely she is to hunt!  Alt east give me a starting point or i'll just read the advert back . . .
		
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I get this and agree, if the ad is fairly extensive starting with "tell me about your horse" is frustrating and could mean you talk for 30 mins only to finally get to the sticking point that means the potential buyer is not interested.

I turn it round when selling and say "what are you looking for" or "what exactly would you like to know" that way if something is a priority we get to the point quickly, if the horse is not suitable I can usually decide after asking them a few questions and finish the conversation with something such as " he would be more suited to a low level home" if they sound ambitious beyond the horses ability or "he needs a more experienced rider" when mummy phones about the green 4 year old for her 6 year old child that is just learning to trot. 

I rarely have anyone come who is not suited, they may not buy, I also rarely have long phone calls that end up without a viewing, the odd horse seems to attract the wrong people but  it is usually because I have got the advert wrong, if the wording and photos are correctly balanced I find the right people are the ones that show interest.


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## JustKickOn (15 May 2016)

LeannePip said:



			well i'd have thought having read the advert you may have some questions, so;

'Hi, I'm phoning about xxx, i see your advert says YYY, How are they with AAAA? I'm looking for something to do BBBBB . . . . . .'

If thats what people do thats fine, but when i'm face with 'tell me about your horse' it's like, where do you want me to start? i can babble on about her for hours but if it could turn out your looking for something to do dressage and i've been babbling on about how lovely she is to hunt!  Alt east give me a starting point or i'll just read the advert back . . .
		
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Or you could say to them "What would you like to know, were there any aspects of her advert that you would like me to expand on?" 

From what I have read on this thread, I'm afraid the advert doesn't come across as being very honest.

I do think you need to mention the medical issues in the advert, they will be excluded from her insurance. That's something I would want to know prior to handing over money. It wouldn't necessarily stop me buying, but would be something I would have to factor into cost. 

Get her out to a few different competitions, get some schooling videos on the flat and over fences and some genuine hacking videos.i think once back in consistent work, it will be easier to sell her.


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## Crugeran Celt (15 May 2016)

I haven't read all the posts but I think £4k for a horse that has had previous health issues and naps and is suitable only for someone to have a bit of fun on is rather a high price to pay.


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## LeannePip (15 May 2016)

JustKickOn said:



			From what I have read on this thread, I'm afraid the advert doesn't come across as being very honest.
		
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I really don't see how the advert is not honest?  She does everything it says in the advert, i've disclosed the napping probably as more of an issue than it currently is.  i don't think i need to recount her entire history; 'As a 5 year old she was a nappy little wotsit who used to hop up and down she did this showjumping, in indoor arenas and anywhere else you can think of but now she only does this occasionally hacking on her own'  i've not seen many adverts where people disclose their horses medical history and i don't think thats just because they don't have a history, most horses will.  Its not like you are reading the advert and handing over the money if the seller is disclosing it at the first point of contact with a potential buyer then that is ample i'd imagine.


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## DiNozzo (15 May 2016)

Personally, I don't think there's anything massively wrong in the advert.

Too long, slightly confusing/inconsistent at times re. confidence giver/nappiness. 

I wouldn't mention napping at all in the advert on the basis that she does not do it now, although I would mention on first point of contact with any potential buyer that at X point in her life she did Y and Z.

Same with the soundness issues. If she is currently sound, and working at the level your advertising at, I would again mention that these things have been an issue in the past. I'd also mention any management required at this point too.

I don't think LeannePip has been dishonest at all, just fallen into the trap of familiarity.


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## JFTDWS (15 May 2016)

Crugeran Celt said:



			I haven't read all the posts but I think £4k for a horse that has had previous health issues and naps and is suitable only for someone to have a bit of fun on is rather a high price to pay.
		
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I'm inclined to agree.

Re health issue disclosure - there are health issues and there are health issues.  I wouldn't mention in an advert for F the two times he's seen a vet other than routine stuff so far.  These were a rather dramatic abscess, and a chipped radius 5 years ago - both completely resolved and highly unlikely to have an effect on future soundness.  

A soft tissue injury and a locking stifle in a working horse are a different ball park for medical history.  They may well impact her soundness when back in full work, or if she's not managed appropriately, and they're definitely something the new owner needs to be aware of if they're going to take her on.  I think the offer of £2750 was pretty reasonable, really.  She's a lovely horse, but she's a fairly high risk investment for her target market.


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## ihatework (15 May 2016)

She is a nice stamp.
If you hand on heart think she is over the worst of the napping and that the stifles/tendon/ulcers are not an ongoing issue then I would put your money where your mouth is. Invest 6-8 weeks in getting her back up and running and ready to show off to her full potential.
I'd aim her as a competitive teenagers horse, and not as a confidence giving middle aged ladies horse (these slightly nappy welshies can pick up nervous vibes and play up). I'd shorten the ad and cut the waffle. I'd not offer a trial upfront (but hold this as a negotiation card if the right person comes along)


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## JustKickOn (15 May 2016)

JFTD said:



			A soft tissue injury and a locking stifle in a working horse are a different ball park for medical history.  They may well impact her soundness when back in full work, or if she's not managed appropriately, and they're definitely something the new owner needs to be aware of if they're going to take her on.  I think the offer of £2750 was pretty reasonable, really.  She's a lovely horse, but she's a fairly high risk investment for her target market.
		
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^^ my thoughts. 

If a horse has locking stifles, I would want to know, before calling up - time wasting for the buyer otherwise. 
Yes, you can manage the LS, have have them injected etc, but it is costly and will only mask the issue. For a horse that's 8, how much further down the line is issue going to occur again and will it affect the longevity of her career as a ridden horse? 

It's a rather big blemish and this would worry me far more than any napping; you can't work this issue away. Fair enough if you're disclosing this to people over the phone, but it wastes their time if they're looking for a horse with sound joints and structures.


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## Red-1 (15 May 2016)

TGM said:



			Oh, I didn't think to check back history on here.  If the horse you are selling is the one below I do think you need to declare the medical issues to any potential buyers:

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?660091-Locking-Stifle-Treatment-Nightmare

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I missed the medical issues. If I were selling a horse with these issues then yes, I would declare the issues to any interested parties. I put Charlie Horse on the market and declared his sweet itch, even though it was so controlled he no longer "suffered." I also declared that he once bruised a tendon. In fact, we ended up keeping him, and he became OH's horse, but I could not have withheld information.

Jay Man will never (foreseeably) be for sale, but if he were I would declare his issues, even though I hope they will be mended by next year. It is a matter of honesty for me. TBH, with dicky stifles, and needing ulcer treatment, and nappy behaviour, and being out of proper work since these issues, I would call the person back who offered £2,750 and snap their hand off! Or, probably I would not, unless they satisfied me that they were the right home.


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## indie1282 (15 May 2016)

For the price she is advertised for I would expect a horse that is fit and ready to go, jumping consistently and schooled on the flat. In theory I would want the horse to be able to go out and compete in an ODE the next weekend for example.  

The ad is a bit disjointed as a confidence giver should not be nappy! I think if it was my horse I would spend 6 - 8 weeks riding her on and getting her going - get over any napping issues if there are still some there and get her out and about competing so people can see her. I dont know about her medical history but assume she had/has locking stifles and some tendon injury?  Depending on the extent I would personally want to disclose that info to a buyer - if you dont want to put it in the ad then fair enough but I would tell people if they called. 

She looks like a really lovely horse and im sure whoever does buy her will have a cracker :-D


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## SO1 (15 May 2016)

A lot of people will read between the lines when they read an advert.

People will wonder why a confidence giving competition horse has been in a hack home for a year and even though you have not mentioned the medical history will presume there has been some sort of problem which will put people off - she is not cheap enough for people to take a risk.

The napping - some people will presume it is worse than it is.

If you think she will pass a 5 stage vetting and her pervious medical issues are cured and will not affect her performance in the future and the napping is cured then don't mention it or the previous injuries. If your nervous mum has taken her x country recently and she is fit and jumping well then mention this in the advert don't mention the time she has off in the hacking home.

Don't market her as a confidence giver if you think she would not be suitable for a nervous or novice rider as it could be confusing. Think about the type of person who she would be suitable and write an advert that you think will attract that sort of person.


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## Amymay (15 May 2016)

Cowpony said:



			Actually, when I was looking for a horse I used to do exactly that, (ie just ask a general question about the horse) *because a lot of people will babble on and tell you stuff they probably didn't intend to*. So it's not necessarily a daft question from a buyer's perspective!
		
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Exactly


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## ester (15 May 2016)

I think you have found her to be a confidence giver because you had her since she was a baby, know all about her, have done a lot with her etc and also ridden her at her worse and know that you can cope with her worst. 
My mum has recently had that experience riding a very bouncy chap for a friend, she knows him well enough to just ignore him and he was fab for her jumping as very bold etc but watching others come and try him she could see why some were a bit more nervous of him. 
Others don't have all that information and are just going to think the ad doesn't make sense. 
I too don't think £2750 was a bad offer if it was the right home (was that with passed vetting?)

I know you say people will remember the bad bits but I read the ad thinking if I didnt know what I did from here I would have been sending it to a friend of mine, as it is you have posted quite extensively about her behaviour and medical issues and how much she did when she was quite young/you were working pupil etc. You do need to take into account the sort of insurance exclusions she would now have too. - whole GI and at least one/two legs I should think atm!?

Get her fit and going yourself, let the new one take a back step if necessary while you do as you need to show people she is fit and good to go and healthy and will pass a vet.


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## FlyingCircus (15 May 2016)

For a bit of perspective, I got a fit and ready to go 7yr old 15hh that has scope for BE100 for £3,500.
He flew the vetting, got vetting history from his previous owner and nothing aside from routine visits. 
He was £750 CHEAPER than your horse.


ETA: To be competitive at BE100. Only reason he's not is his numpty rider (me!)


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## Sugar_and_Spice (16 May 2016)

You can't have it both ways OP. When talking about her medical and behavioural issues, its all "that's when she was 4 or 5, its in the past, she's 8 now" but when talking about her talent (which she hasn't been asked to show for a few years), its "she's still the same horse".

If you state "confidence giver" you'll attract nervous people, many of whom will be novices or ineffective riders due to nerves. If she has the tendency to be "backwards thinking" as you say, that easily deteriorates into napping, in the wrong hands. 

You also say she "hops up and down" explaining past behavior. Others on here have described it as rearing. Once a horse has learned behavioural faults the potential for them to revert to that behaviour is always there and most people looking for a "confidence giver" would run a mile from something with past rearing tendencies, however small the rears.

Then there's the leg injury. You're making out on this thread that it was nothing. If that's true, why didn't you rest her until sound then bring her back into full work with a fitness plan? Why the need to have a year out in a hacking home once sound? That doesn't sound like nothing to me. 

This doesn't sound like a 4k horse. Between the adverts/Facebook/YouTube/forum posts, you're coming across as inconsistent and that would put me off buying her at any price.


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## LadyGascoyne (16 May 2016)

I'm a huge Pip fan. I think you've just given far too much information. 

I'd go with:

Welsh Part Bred Mare, 8yo, 15.3hh.
Heartbreaking sale of a really fun and safe horse. Has evented, hunted and jumped up to 1m, unaff. Dressage intro through to novice. Good to catch/ clip/ shoe/ load. Please call for more information. Short trail period will be considered. 

When they call, I'd talk about the sort of home she needs and any issues she's had in the past.


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## LeannePip (16 May 2016)

I think this needs putting to bed, general consensus is she's advertised for too much, I've explained how I came to this figure and I haven't said its the right figure or even said I won't re consider a new price. 

You're all banging on as if I'm some dodgy dealer flogging a lunatic of a horse as the next grassroots champ ready for a nervous nelly to jump round Badminton!  I'm not! I have been completely upfront with everyone who calls or seems interested and am now getting ripped to shreds because you think she's advertised too high.  Which is fine a price can be changed, but the reaction is unbelievable! 

If anyone is in the area and wants to come and see her for yourself then do, I'm not hiding anything about her or her past, come in a guise if you really want to prove me wrong!

I have always tried to be a fair and honest poster, don't get involved in the nasties on the forum and offer any small bit of advice I can.  yet the reception I get in here is similar to being a troll out to cause trouble, but I think I've had enough now, the advice from some posters has been great and been taken on board but the anxiety it causes to post in here isn't worth it.


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## touchstone (16 May 2016)

I think you've received some good advice,  I agree with LadyGascoyne, keep the advert short and to the point and let the horse sell herself if they decide to try her out.  

Selling is never any fun, but hopefully the right person will come along.


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## ester (16 May 2016)

LeannePip said:



			You're all banging on as if I'm some dodgy dealer flogging a lunatic of a horse as the next grassroots champ ready for a nervous nelly to jump round Badminton! I'm not! I have been completely upfront with everyone who calls or seems interested and am now getting ripped to shreds because you think she's advertised too high. Which is fine a price can be changed, but the reaction is unbelievable!
		
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I think you are reading things that aren't there. And yes I was presuming you were being upfront with people that call but you can't then call them time wasters if they are put off by the information they are told. The price point doesn't suggest issues to me so as a buyer I would likely feel the timewasting had been in the other direction!



LeannePip said:



			I have always tried to be a fair and honest poster, don't get involved in the nasties on the forum and offer any small bit of advice I can.  yet the reception I get in here is similar to being a troll out to cause trouble, but I think I've had enough now, the advice from some posters has been great and been taken on board but the anxiety it causes to post in here isn't worth it.
		
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I don't think you have had that sort of that reception at all. I think you have been given sound and constructive crit to your post that you perhaps disagree with. I would have thought that you had been round here long enough to expect a practical opinions response rather than a poor you dealing with all those annoying potential purchasers post?
I brought up the health issues because I assumed you would be telling people about them on the phone, in which case it was pertinent for others to know that when you are saying that people are time wasting. 


I have seen the advert several times over (IIRC it was lwvtb to start with but presume no takers on that) and every time think it doesn't quite fit with my understanding of the horse and been shocked by the subsequent price point and it is me/my friends sort of standard (RC, hunting, bit of dressage, fun rides  etc) sort/type of horse, although all of us also enjoying disappearing for hours on hacks too.
Frank would just about be a schoolmaster (although not really for jumping) he has never, ever removed or threatened to remove his front legs from the floor. I am a pretty confident rider but would never choose to purchase something that knew how to do that/knew that it could be used as an evasion.


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## LeannePip (16 May 2016)

ester said:



			I think you are reading things that aren't there. And yes I was presuming you were being upfront with people that call but you can't then call them time wasters if they are put off by the information they are told. The price point doesn't suggest issues to me so as a buyer I would likely feel the timewasting had been in the other direction!



I don't think you have had that sort of that reception at all. I think you have been given sound and constructive crit to your post that you perhaps disagree with. I would have thought that you had been round here long enough to expect a practical opinions response rather than a poor you dealing with all those annoying potential purchasers post?
I brought up the health issues because I assumed you would be telling people about them on the phone, in which case it was pertinent for others to know that when you are saying that people are time wasting. 


I have seen the advert several times over (IIRC it was lwvtb to start with but presume no takers on that) and every time think it doesn't quite fit with my understanding of the horse and been shocked by the subsequent price point and it is me/my friends sort of standard (RC, hunting, bit of dressage, fun rides  etc) sort/type of horse, although all of us also enjoying disappearing for hours on hacks too.
Frank would just about be a schoolmaster (although not really for jumping) he has never, ever removed or threatened to remove his front legs from the floor. I am a pretty confident rider but would never choose to purchase something that knew how to do that/knew that it could be used as an evasion.
		
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Sorry I never called any one a time waster, my complaint was I had written a very comprehensive add which I had thought answered a lot of questions but I still had had some odd and surprising conversations.  Like i'v said I haven't sold before so didn't realise this was the done thing and apparently it is, I actually quite like chatting to people but regardless of this having the same conversation 3 times back to back is wearing, I know it needs to be done but still.

I actually had a lot of interest in her as a Loan, but unfortunately circumstances change and I am now not in the position to have her back at the drop of a hat again so have made the decision to sell, should this not work out I actually have the perfect loan home who are happy to have her but like I say at this point in time I need to sell. 

Yes I agree a lot has been good constructive advice but some posters have the tact of a brick through a window, I think people forget that there is a person the othersise of the screen who has made the heartbreaking decision to sell a much loved horse who they thought they'd be able to keep forever.


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## touchstone (16 May 2016)

I know it can seem harsh when people are picking at your much loved horse, but remember that this is exactly what  a prospective buyer will be doing, they don't have the emotional bond that you have and are probably wary about being sold something that isn't as described so will interrogate the seller and quite rightly.  It can be hard though as you may feel your horse is being rubbished, which isn't true.

I'd advertise her as suggested and just see who comes along, you can always reduce her price if needed and I'm sure that she will sell, I think once people can see a horse and what it can do in the flesh then selling is much easier.  You've just got to word your advert to attract the right person.


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## stormox (16 May 2016)

touchstone said:



			I know it can seem harsh when people are picking at your much loved horse, but remember that this is exactly what  a prospective buyer will be doing, they don't have the emotional bond that you have and are probably wary about being sold something that isn't as described so will interrogate the seller and quite rightly.  It can be hard though as you may feel your horse is being rubbished, which isn't true.
		
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I think this is why sometimes its easier to put your horse on sales livery, or a yard that specialises in getting horses up and running and selling them for people, rather than selling yourself. A  good, trusted professional yard with great facilities for showing her off might be a good idea.


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## ester (16 May 2016)

LeannePip said:



			Yes I agree a lot has been good constructive advice but some posters have the tact of a brick through a window, I think people forget that there is a person the othersise of the screen who has made the heartbreaking decision to sell a much loved horse who they thought they'd be able to keep forever.
		
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Well that's the internet for you, though fwiw I would say the same in real life and had said the same to friend who is looking when I saw the ad. I wouldn't have randomly brought it up but since you started a post thought it appropriate to comment in order that selling her might become easier for you. I perhaps didn't realise quite how cut up you were about it given that you have a replacement rather than selling because a change in circumstances mean you cannot keep her and she has been elsewhere for a year.



LeannePip said:



			Sorry I never called any one a time waster,
		
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sorry you did, otherwise I wouldn't have said it 



LeannePip said:



			She's been up for sale for about 10 days and already I'm fed up of potentials and* time wasters!*

Against some peoples opinions, wrote a huge comprehensive add to hopefully answer a lot of questions and just get some serious enquiries. nope . . . i have had;

- 'Hello, could you tell me about your horse please . . .' this really bugs me because the add has so much detail in so what do you want to know . . .
		
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It has been discussed why people do this, to see what information gets given up.



LeannePip said:



			- have had huge conversations with people think they seem perfect and look forward to a viewing, for them to say at the end would you be happy to loan for a year or so first . . . my add does say potential trial short loan period as horse is just coming back into work but a year is taking the biscuit.
		
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I suspect they have seen the for loan ad too and presume that might still be an option. 




LeannePip said:



			- people getting annoyed with me over the phone when i am honest and say i'm selling because i want to event seriously (Grassroots plus) and i don't think thats what she wants to do - as if i've mis advertised her in some way! I'm selling her as a 'fun, safe, confidence giver' and have in no-way implied that she is a serious top level competition prospect for any particular discipline!
		
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For a lot of people grassroots/novice eventing is not eventing seriously and you would expect most prospects of her type and age to be able to do BE90/100. 

If you are struggling with it all too much perhaps sales livery would be the best option, they can get her up, going and competing and deal with all the strange phone calls.


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## Farma (16 May 2016)

I don't know if I am alone in thinking I would be more interested with all of this info available, every time I buy a horse I have to second guess why its being sold, try to read through the stories being told, and often find out along the lines after buying numerous issues that may have been in its history, normally after 1 or 2 viewings you still know so little you have to take a gamble, having read all this I would be thinking well at least I know exactly what I am getting into (assuming the horse would pass a vetting!).


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## The wife (16 May 2016)

On the other hand, sellers that change the goal posts and change their minds as per my most recent post!

Pony for sale, offer accepted, supposed to be arriving this morning. Got a phone call last night, they now want to loan it with a view to buy.

No thank you


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## LeannePip (16 May 2016)

ester said:



			Well that's the internet for you, though fwiw I would say the same in real life and had said the same to friend who is looking when I saw the ad. I wouldn't have randomly brought it up but since you started a post thought it appropriate to comment in order that selling her might become easier for you. I perhaps didn't realise quite how cut up you were about it given that you have a replacement rather than selling because a change in circumstances mean you cannot keep her and she has been elsewhere for a year.
		
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Ester, i get it, she's not suitable for your friend! that's absolutely fine - shes not going to be suitable for everyone but she will be perfect for some one out there!  None of your posts have made it easier to sell her, much the opposite.

Its rather callous of you to think or say I wouldn't be cut up because i have a replacement which is 100% not the case.  We are still talking about a horse whom i have owned since a yearling and been through alot with! how you'd imagine there isn't an emotional attachment to the horse regardless of the fact shes been out on loan for almost a year is beyond me!

As if i need to explain myself, we bought a second horse to come along side her,  unfortunately this all fell around a time where she had a few medical problems as has been pointed out.  And as we ended up buying a horse younger than planned she needed a lot more time/ work dedicating to her for the time being so i was going to leave Pip out for the summer to chill however a friend asked if they could have to her hack out so it seemed like a nice compromise as living in a field with no work didn't agree with her waist line!  So off she went.  Last month they unfortunately gave notice to end the loan due to a change in their circumstances and i am no longer in the position to keep two on a long term basis, hence the reason for the sale.  I have only ever tried to do the best by this horse sought medical and other advice when it is needed and probably followed some bad advice for too long as well but my interests have and always will be what is best for this special horse.


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## ester (16 May 2016)

It is more that I just wasn't aware that we needed to take your emotional attachment into account when pointing out some solutions to the very practical issues you are going to encounter when selling her. Sorry that you have apparently found none of mine helpful even though I think they also mostly reiterate what others have said buy hey, we must all be wrong. I still maintain no one has treated you like a troll selling something to a novice that will go round badminton  and I think you are being over sensitive because it isn't the response you wanted. I wouldn't sell mine if I was that attached to them.

It is not just my friend it is the many people I know who are the market she would be aimed at, and me when Frank finally goes, and they would not want something that naps out of a start box! You surely have to agree that an advert that reads confidence giver that naps seems a bit of an oxymoron and likely to confuse?

Yet you are the one that then pulls me up and says you didn't call anyone a timewaster when it is there, in your very first post!!


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## Lammy (16 May 2016)

I think for this current market, she is overpriced - I could find something like her with her quirks for around the 3k mark. She might be more suitable to sell as a hunter or for a competitive teen/young rider who wants a fun riding club horse. I think with the napping, however minor, discredits her from being a confidence giver - personally I wouldn't expect a confidence giving type to do this on any occasion. I would also mention the previous medical issue but state that this no longer affects her.

I've read the whole thread and can't see that anyone has outright attacked you, some blunt posts but nothing worse than that - though I do see it would be hard to take people pointing out all the negative attributes of your horse. I hope you manage to get a nice home for her.


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## The wife (16 May 2016)

OP, I am really sorry but i got bored reading your advert. It's about 4 paragraphs too long and is, to be brutally honest, boring.

I may be being callous here but as a potential buyer, I don't need to know her whole history and I also would not call her a confidence giver, given that she naps. I also don't want to be reading through lots of jumbled text to find out she is an excellent all-rounder, mannerly to hunt and can do a bit of everything - see I summed her up in a sentence then.

Shorten it and put the basics in. Yes the napping is important but I personally would not put it in an advert, I would word it perhaps, not 100% to hack on her own.

Remove the word 'Flashy', it is subjective. I am going to be mean now and it is only a personal view so don't take it the wrong way. I would not call her flashy in the slightest. She is pretty but flashy springs up mental images of Valegro, top class dressage horses and such and also will not be aiming her at your target market.

In summary, cut your advert by 75% put the necessary stuff in and word it better. There has been alot of advice on here about re-wording the advert and using better images and think more about your target audience - fun teenagers horse, amateurs dream etc. Get people on the phone and then you can explain about the napping and tell people she is your best friend, that you have owned her from a yearling etc etc.


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## LeannePip (16 May 2016)

I have said on numerous occasions that i have appreciated the advice given and whilst it is not what i set out for when i wrote the post it has been mostly welcomed and taken on board.  I also didn't set out to bash time wasters, in fact i never called any one a timewaster that wasnt the crux of the post.  Just because i wish the perfect family would come along does not mean all the people before hand are timewasters.

Its probably hard for you and others to appreciate how a horse with her history can be a confidence giver but this is the advice i have taken from those who know her, her history and it has also been the feedback that has come from people who have viewed her.

I've agreed and known from the beginning that's shes not an easy sale, she wont be perfect for everyone.  But one quirk which i have been upfront about from the beginning does not detract from the fact that she will be a safe confidence giver in other areas as mentioned. The perfect family may never hack alone and may just want her for Jimmy to take to pony club rallies/camps and hunting, who knows!

I will edit the advert as per advice and go from there, i'm not an overly sensitive person but i guess that's what 9 pages of hoo-hah does to a person!


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## ester (16 May 2016)

LeannePip said:



			She's been up for sale for about 10 days and already I'm fed up of potentials and* time wasters!*

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errr, maybe you didn't name them but!?!?


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## paddi22 (16 May 2016)

looks like a lovely horse, and would be the kind to catch my eye in an ad as she has a great pop. I don't mind the way the ad is worded at all, it gives a good idea of a horse who can do a lot but needs a confident rider.

As an objective person reading it i'd have red flags at:
&#8226; if she's so flashy and great why has she only been hacking for a year? would scream injury to me. 
&#8226; why is it being pointed out she's a nappy hacker if she's been hacking a year? it just sounds contradictory. It's hard to tell if it's a major issue or not from the ad. 
&#8226; i'd play down her xc and just say she'd done it. Reading the ad i don't care if she's amazing over skinnies if i'm going to hit issues with water on every xc course, which is what i'm reading from this.  The exposure bit just sounds really odd, she won't get time for exposure on new courses. And at 8 you'd want a horse to have overcome their issues. A good xc rider won't take a punt on a horse with a water issue and startbox hassle. If i was selling her,i'd just say she done xc, put a few results and locations up and put a few nice pics up. I wouldn't be selling her as a confidence giving xc horse, i'd just state the facts.  Saying that, as a buyer i'd appreciate the honesty and would appreciate the heads up on the issue so I could try the horse xc to see if it's a manageable issue. 
&#8226; the start box issue also sounds like you're downplaying it. You are probably so used to riding her you underplay the issue unconsciously, but any other sticky starter-box horses i've seen usually have a few spins or rears in them. They don't usually just safely plant and go with a kick. If the horse is nappy with you, then it will absolutely rip the p*ss with a new rider and is no way a confidence giver. 

When i'm buying i'd always say 'tell me about the horse' and the first thing the person says (or doesn't say) is really revealing. People often miswrite ads, but automatically tell the truth when put under pressure! 

It kind of sounds like she's a bit stuck between what she's for. she's doesn't sound like a competition horse with the start box issues and water, but at the same time she sounds tricky for a nervous rider.  I'd do the same as you and overexplain in ads, but to sell her i'd cut down the ad to basics and just say what she's done and what kind of rider she'd suit.


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## LeannePip (16 May 2016)

Lammy said:



			I think for this current market, she is overpriced - I could find something like her with her quirks for around the 3k mark. She might be more suitable to sell as a hunter or for a competitive teen/young rider who wants a fun riding club horse. I think with the napping, however minor, discredits her from being a confidence giver - personally I wouldn't expect a confidence giving type to do this on any occasion. I would also mention the previous medical issue but state that this no longer affects her.

I've read the whole thread and can't see that anyone has outright attacked you, some blunt posts but nothing worse than that - though I do see it would be hard to take people pointing out all the negative attributes of your horse. I hope you manage to get a nice home for her.
		
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Thats fine, general consensus is shes priced wrong, the price came from feedback i had from people who know the horse, unfortunately there is no black and white guide as to how to price a horse!  I'll see how it goes and change the price accordingly.



The wife said:



			OP, I am really sorry but i got bored reading your advert. It's about 4 paragraphs too long and is, to be brutally honest, boring.

I may be being callous here but as a potential buyer, I don't need to know her whole history and I also would not call her a confidence giver, given that she naps. I also don't want to be reading through lots of jumbled text to find out she is an excellent all-rounder, mannerly to hunt and can do a bit of everything - see I summed her up in a sentence then.

Shorten it and put the basics in. Yes the napping is important but I personally would not put it in an advert, I would word it perhaps, not 100% to hack on her own.

Remove the word 'Flashy', it is subjective. I am going to be mean now and it is only a personal view so don't take it the wrong way. I would not call her flashy in the slightest. She is pretty but flashy springs up mental images of Valegro, top class dressage horses and such and also will not be aiming her at your target market.

In summary, cut your advert by 75% put the necessary stuff in and word it better. There has been alot of advice on here about re-wording the advert and using better images and think more about your target audience - fun teenagers horse, amateurs dream etc. Get people on the phone and then you can explain about the napping and tell people she is your best friend, that you have owned her from a yearling etc etc.
		
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Feed back is appreciated, thank you - i'm going to sit and look at the advert shortly and make the suggested amendments


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## wingedhorse99 (16 May 2016)

If I was buying this horse, with full disclosure of the history. I would either want the horse to be in full work and have demonstrated staying sound and doing well over the last six months, doing the level of work I wanted to do with the horse.

Or I would want a six month loan to get the horse fit, and test whether horse was able to do the work I wanted. But I would taking on all the costs for six months, for a horse with a nap, who is totally unfit, and cannot be properly tried, and may prove not able to stand up to the work I wanted. So I would be looking to pay £1500 at the end of the loan, and to have this confirmed in writing before I started.

Paying the fittening, schooling, competing and running costs, for getting a professional to bring into work and compete for six months would cost more than £4K.

To be honest, I think you should ideally bring the horse back into full work yourself, and compete her, and sell her with six months work behind her to assure her a good future, doing what she is capable off.

Or cut your losses and sell her to a long term hacking home, with their own land, for a small amount.


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## LeannePip (16 May 2016)

ester said:



			errr, maybe you didn't name them but!?!?
		
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Some people are time wasters though like the girls asking if they could loan her for the summer until they go back to school or reading a for sale add and asking to loan.  they are very different to the potentials; people who are calling asking suitable questions, having a chat and working out the horse is not suitable.


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## stormox (16 May 2016)

They might be time wasters from your point of view, but not from their own. 'No harm in asking, they can only say no' 'if you dont ask you dont get' ....  I dont think many people set out to just waste time.


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## ester (16 May 2016)

particularly if they saw the horse was available for loan before, says short loan possible on the advert, people might want enough time to get her fit and check she is physically capable for what they want her for before committing.


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## The wife (16 May 2016)

LeannePip said:



			Feed back is appreciated, thank you - i'm going to sit and look at the advert shortly and make the suggested amendments
		
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My pleasure - FWIT. I agree she is over-priced at the moment, given that from what I understood in the advert that she is not in full work and not fit... However, if she were I would personally say she is worth every penny, just not at the moment. My best suggestion is that you at least get her up and going, even if just a months worth of work put in. It is a good time of year to be selling her 'type', especially in time for the summer.

I would put emphasis on the fact you are aiming for a teenagers RC/PC ride - most teenagers are likely to be more willing to cope with her little quirks, as opposed to say a mothers weekend ride. I know you said she is a confidence giver but I would especially remove this as well. I am sorry but she isn't with her napping, it also removes any shadow of doubt from mis-advertising. A confidence giver to me is one which my husband can ride. One which will cope with wobbling, that he can take out for a hack without any question marks being raised and that will happily carry a novice. This she is not. I think you are leaving yourself open to questions about this and to be honest, I don't think it adds any value as she doesn't look like a novice ride from your pictures. Yes I know she is jumping sweetly but she just doesn't look like 'the nervous and novice' type of horse, which one would expect from the words 'confidence giver'.

I would also put alot of emphasis on the all-rounder bit, especially that she is mannerly to hunt - this in itself, for me is important but as a buyer as it also means said horse is unlikely to be phased by warm-ups, pleasure rides and beach rides.

Lastly, would love to read your reviewed advert! So if you want any feedback on it please do drop me a line (i'm bored and procrastinating at work!!)

Good luck with her. She sounds just up my street


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## paddi22 (16 May 2016)

absolutely agree with removing the confidence giver part as well. You will get novice riders who might have visions of themselves getting out to jump xc eventually and they will just zoom in on the 'confidence giver' and get the wrong impression. AWhat might be a quick plant and kick situation for you,  can easily escalate into a spinning, bunnyhopping issue with a nervous novice. 

 A horse who likes jumping and will get round a course is not an automatic confidence giver. If it naps in any way, shape or form it's definitely not.


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## muddy_grey (16 May 2016)

Sorry that you feel you have been bombarded.
I think the main issue with the add is the title - "Confidence Giver"  I know you say she has given you confidence, but it sounds like she is a great horse for a confident rider, not a confidence giver.  Saying she is a confidence giver implies that she will look after a nervous rider.  What About "Fun Allrounder"
I like the dressage and most of the SJ section.
The XC sections is a bit dodgy.  I am purely looking at your words not saying anything about the horse FYI.  Starts with "Pip is great XC " then mentions a slight problem with water and leaving start box.  Does that read great XC to you (if you didn't know the horse)?  I would play down the XC in the ad as I don't think it sounds like an eventing home would be right for her.
Move the hunting bit further up the ad as this sounds great, but get rid of "on a few occasions", she has done it that's enough! Do you have a picture of her hunting?
If your mum has been out jumping and riding her and you feel she is fit then forget the hacking home for the past year.  If she is no longer nappy to hack alone then I would change that whole bit. Maybe something like:
Pips only downside is she has previously been reluctant to hack alone.  This has not been a problem for over a year and she is great in company, but for this reason she would not be suitable for a novice.

Change the pictures.  By using the 4 in one method it means the individual pictures are all quite small.  I would move XC pics nearer the end and add a confo shot.

Hope you find the right home for her as she looks like a lovely horse.  Getting rid of the confidence giver part might also weed out some of the long phone calls.  I sold a true confidence giver a couple of years ago and the sort of people who are looking for them do want to know every detail about how the horse might react in every situation.


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## PerfectCoffee (16 May 2016)

I agree with the general consensus not to advertise her as a confidence giver. Even reformed nappers tend to start napping again in a new home particularly with a less than confident rider.  If the new owner then happened to read posts about her on here I would think they probably would have a good case against you in court. . I hope you find a good home for her, perhaps someone who wants to hunt and do sponsored rides but agree that you probably need to drop the price.


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## SO1 (16 May 2016)

Confidence giving is subjective and I don't doubt that you believe that she is a confidence giver but probably your idea of a confidence giver is not the same as that of most people who might read the advert.

Anyone with any knowledge of horses will presume that the reason she is not in full work and has been in a hacking home for the past year will be due to injury.

If she is fit and ready to go out competing it might be worth taking her out to a couple of competitions so you can have recent good results to show off to potential buyers. 

I think you need to appeal to a more confident rider who wants to hunt or do sponsored rides, SJ and dressage but not that interested in competitive cross country or hacking alone. Don't mention the x country but show photos of SJ, dressage and if you have any of her out hunting. If you show lots of photos of her jumping x country fences then you will attract people who want to x country which it sounds like is not her strongest selling point.  If she is a really good hunter have you seen if anyone at the hunt who has seen her out hunting might be interested in her?

Concentrate on her good points and then add that she prefers to hack out in company, which is not uncommon in adverts. Don't mention that she has been in the hacking home for a year if the reason she was in that situation due to you being too busy with your young horse rather than because she was not up to anything else or resting due to injury.


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## kate2323 (16 May 2016)

I have read the entire thread and it is almost like an exam of "reading between the lines!' 
Where I live  this horse is prob worth 1-1.5K MAX!  with the medical history and the napping and that video on you tube of the mares behaviour....shows you have to really do your research  when buying any horse !! buyer beware!


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## Michen (17 May 2016)

Having just read through a lot of your threads about this mare I think the advert is actually a bit misleading. It makes me sad because although on a more drastic scale similar happened to me and it broke my heart and did the horse no good either. The horse you have described in your advert is not the one in your threads- and given she's only hacked for a year I can't see how much has changed. I think being realistic about her price will go a long way to getting her sold.


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## jaffa2311 (17 May 2016)

The post below is simply NOT the horse advertised. That is all, really and prtty much what all 15 comments of this thread are saying. 




Around this time we had a very frank discussion about Pips future, my aim to be competitive at something and Pips aim to be a happy hacker come hunter were always going to bump heads, after thinking long an hard i decided i was always going to be trying to get a square peg in a round hole, as talented and as promising as she showed potential to be, it was never easy and some days she was on side and some days she didn't want to play ball and it was breaking my heart. We decided she would either go to my Farrier and his partner for hacking and pub rides and a bit of fun, or have an extended field holiday on the farm and i'd find something else more suited to the job. Next mistake - thinking i could ever give her up!

Read more at http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/foru...-One-thing-after-another!#5gZEImom8reqhZRU.99


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## xspiralx (17 May 2016)

I can understand why you're feeling a bit attacked OP although I don't think people are intending to have a go at you.

For what it's worth I don't think you're being dishonest about the horse, nor do I think your situation is different from that of very many others who sell horses. Your bad luck is that you have a warts and all history of the horse plastered all over the Internet. 

I do think that with her quirks, current fitness and history of health issues that she's a bit overpriced - I would have said 2.5k would be closer to the mark, but I know you've already acknowledged the comments about price. However if you got her back into full competition work and proved she is sound and not napping at all, then the price you're asking would be more achievable. 

She's clearly a nice mare and I'm sure will be absolutely perfect for someone. Selling is very difficult and frustrating - even moreso if you're selling something which has quirks.


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## Red-1 (17 May 2016)

I suppose the risk with starting to compete her again is that the thread quoted by Jaffa is only a year or so old, and at that time the horse was nappy, lame, with ulcers and a severely stuck stifle. A year is not such a long time ago, and as she has only been hacking this past year, it may be that Pip would not fare well back in a competition environment. 

If you are prepared to take that risk though, and it were successful, then the horse would increase in value, but it would need to be a fair amount of time (maybe 3 months?) before people (in general IMO) would feel confident in her to stay sound. 

It may be that a short term loan over summer could suit your needs, especially as she is a great hunter, so you are not looking at grabbing the spring purchasers. Her best time to sell may well be autumn. Maybe, if you can't do the work yourself, if the teenager is competent and have the backing of the parents, maybe the teenager who called would not be such a bad prospect? 

Or, as you now agree that her price may, currently at least, be too high, call the person back who offered £2750? If they already know all the facts and are prepared to pay, it sounds like a winner.


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## Mince Pie (17 May 2016)

What exactly does she do when she naps?
Can you get a vet to back up that the major issues now seem to be resolved?
Shorten the advert, - Pip is 8 years old, has done ABC but not competitive enough XC for me, has had previous medical issues but vet can verify these have been resolved. Pip can nap - she does [insert whatever here] but this is now very infrequent - get a video if you can.


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## ester (17 May 2016)

xspiralx said:



			I can understand why you're feeling a bit attacked OP although I don't think people are intending to have a go at you.

For what it's worth I don't think you're being dishonest about the horse, nor do I think your situation is different from that of very many others who sell horses. Your bad luck is that you have a warts and all history of the horse plastered all over the Internet. 

I do think that with her quirks, current fitness and history of health issues that she's a bit overpriced - I would have said 2.5k would be closer to the mark, but I know you've already acknowledged the comments about price. However if you got her back into full competition work and proved she is sound and not napping at all, then the price you're asking would be more achievable. 

She's clearly a nice mare and I'm sure will be absolutely perfect for someone. Selling is very difficult and frustrating - even moreso if you're selling something which has quirks.
		
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Which is why I find it hard to see the person offering 2750 as a time waster or the teens who could have her over the summer get her fit, prove her soundness and you could then sell in the autumn to a hunting home


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## LeannePip (17 May 2016)

I don't want to post much more on the matter, I've appreciated all the replies in how to re-word the advert and I will look at it shortly however I just haven't had a chance yet.  Yes the advert on reading back may be slightly confusing however it is only due to the fact I was trying to be honest about the horse and where her downfalls are aswell as her good points.  Writing advert for horses is not something I've ever done before and it seems it's an art. 

 I'm selling her as a fun horse for someone who wants to go out and do a bit of everything and who doesn't want the worry of being bucked bronc'd or galloped off with whilst doing it, not solely event as I'd like to do. I'd say in most areas she's a confidence giving horse because that's my experience of her and also the experience of those who have ridden her for me but I can see where the majority of you are coming from and will likely take this out of the advert.

Price wise, it is always said on here that a horse is worth what someone is willing to pay, if no one wants her at that price that's fine and I will re-asses based on feed back from viewers/ calls/ comments etc.  Whilst the money would be welcomed it is not my main priority, all I have tried to do from the beginning is find her a good home. 

Medical wise and the last season I competed her she was well and fit (sept14-Jan15 I think) and the hacking was barely an issue by this point. In Feb 15 I didn't feel she was right as she was loosing weight so we had her scoped and stopped working her and treated the ulcers, the day she was due back for a re-scope she locked over night, likely due to the weight loss, lack of work and loss of muscle tone. Once she was unlocked that morning she didn't and hasnt locked since, prior to that she hadn't locked since the previous year. She was taken back to the vets a week later and scoped clear so we began working her again several weeks later we had the tendon issue, vets attended scanned twice, found nothing and said to bring back into work and she's been fine since. Just incase you wanted the time line. . .

Michen I hardly think this is akin to your situation, I have been upfront and honest regarding her issues from the start.  One family have asked for a vetting which I am happy to oblige and coincidentally is being undertaken by my vets practise but not my vet and I have agreed to a full disclosure of her medical notes.  I am not trying to hide anything!  I don't have reason to believe she will fail a vetting and if she does it will not be because of anything I am aware of.

Perhaps we could leave this thread be now, I can't see that there is anything more that needs to or can be said.


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## ihatework (17 May 2016)

ester said:



			Which is why I find it hard to see the person offering 2750 as a time waster or the teens who could have her over the summer get her fit, prove her soundness and you could then sell in the autumn to a hunting home
		
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You've made your point. Maybe time to back off now?


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## xspiralx (17 May 2016)

Positive news about the vetting! I'd say if she sells from that after ten days of being advertised you've done pretty well really


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## Red-1 (17 May 2016)

Great news that someone wants her, fingers crossed for the vetting. I also think you have done well with a sale so soon, glad someone has seen he good points.


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## FestiveFuzz (17 May 2016)

Best of luck with the vetting!


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## ester (17 May 2016)

ihatework said:



			You've made your point. Maybe time to back off now?
		
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Never very good at that , also not good at being told what to do . Just nice to see people agreeing with me when I was so villified for being mean to the OP and not considering her emotional state when as far as I was concerned I was just giving fact/opinion.

Especially when someone keeps telling me they never called anyone a timewaster so I shouldn't use that term yet used the word in their first sentence .


Hope the vetting goes well OP


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## LeannePip (17 May 2016)

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Good god Ester! Get over it I'm sorry if I've offended you, I didn't think I'd called anyone a time waster hence saying it, I didn't check my post back but luckily you proved me wrong.  In fact as you kindly pointed out for me I differentiated between time wasters and potential homes so wasn't in fact calling everyone who didn't want the horse a time waster . . .

But any way, well done, you were right!  And you hammered it home at any cost and scored some shots aswell, so a good day in the office for you then!

I here by honour you with my first UI, wear it as a badge of pride representative of your insensitivity, callous remarks and your sheer determination to get your point across. 

You win (y) I'm done


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## Leo Walker (17 May 2016)

This raises an interesting point raised by my OH the other day. I'm not selling my boy but if you read what I had posted about him he sounds blumming awful! No soundness issues, but other things. Hes actually a total superstar, the issues I've posted about have been caused when hes had saddles that dont fit or has been sore due to that. Other than that he has no medical issues touch wood! Hes also super easy now. I only post here when things are going wrong! 

Hes completely suitable for a fat, middle aged disabled person, aka me. I have and do get on him when hes done nothing for weeks if not months on end and happily hack him out, when I shouldnt be riding any horse. Hes a saint! Going by my posts on here he sounds like a complete git! 

I am incredibly easy to identify, I post under a user name that is his name and have regularly linked to my FB profile. The only way I could be more identifiable, is if I used my actual name to post under. I do that because I have nothing to hide and couldnt care less if anyone on here knows who I am in real life. I am exactly the same in real life as on here and totally happy to discuss what I've said online in real life. 

And back to my original point, my OH is horrified that I post on a forum with enough detail that people can easily identify me, and can also "keep tabs" on me, when I have severed ties in real life. I completely dismissed him and said it wasnt and would never be an issue, but maybe he does have a point! God help me if my health gets the worst of me and I need to sell my boy. Hopefully it wont ever happen, but if it did there would be people who would miss out on a totally genuine superstar of a cob based on me gobbing off on here!


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## JFTDWS (17 May 2016)

The same had occurred to me about Fergus, FC.  Just as well I don't plan on selling him :eek3:


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## Leo Walker (17 May 2016)

JFTD said:



			The same had occurred to me about Fergus, FC.  Just as well I don't plan on selling him :eek3:
		
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If you could please, please, PLEASE sell him to me, I promise to lose about 4 stone before I sit on him :lol:


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## JFTDWS (17 May 2016)

Shh FC, you've had to sell your own F due to massive personal disasters.  You're not buying my F.

And I'm not intending to hijack LP's thread here...  I apologise :eek3:


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## ester (18 May 2016)

Tricky though it might be for you to see I don't ever post on here to score shots, I post here to help/share experience on many different sorts of threads. I shall go back to my insensitive posts on the self harm thread in soapbox ....  People ask questions, they get replies, story is they don't always like the the replies they get and I can never understand what sort of replies they were expecting when they know this place well. 

I still can't really see the callousness or why highlighting that you aren't the only person saying something, in fact pretty much everyone, is such a bad thing as it isn't fun being declared the meany evil poster either  When you are just saying the same as everyone else. 

But hey ho. I am emotionally insensitive, and see things in a very black and white way and have a physical reaction to people stating one thing and then saying they didn't (rules, truth etc etc stuff) can't help that I'm afraid so bound to be pedantic and pick you up on it. 
Had I started a thread going OMG have you seen leannepip is selling pip and her advert and her price then I can understand you getting pretty mad, but you said you were struggling with the sale. 

No fear of ever selling my Frankie cob so I can tell you all how dreadful he is without worry .


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