# Correct showing tack?



## Farma (6 January 2017)

If you were showing a Connemara (ridden) what would be correct tack (i.e. Black or brown) and what type of bit / saddle style is used at the higher levels?
Also if the rider is adult is there correct attire or is general show gear fine?
Any help appreciated!!


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## conniegirl (6 January 2017)

Brown hunter bridle with either pelham or double. 
Brown show saddle (have a look at ideal ramsey or the fylde show saddles) with near sheepskin numnah under it.

For rider, navy hat with flesh straps.
Hair in a bun and net at nape of neck.
Brown or green tweed jacket
Shirt
Tie to match over check in jacket
Brown leather gloves
Canary or beige jods
Long black boots
Show cane.


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## Farma (6 January 2017)

Brill thanks  
Would you be marked down for a brown dressage saddle instead of the showing saddle?


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## conniegirl (6 January 2017)

Farma said:



			Brill thanks  
Would you be marked down for a brown dressage saddle instead of the showing saddle?
		
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At the higher levels yes, perticularly if it has large knee blocks


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## Tnavas (7 January 2017)

conniegirl said:



			Brown hunter bridle with either pelham or double. 
Brown show saddle (have a look at ideal ramsey or the fylde show saddles) with near sheepskin numnah under it.

For rider, navy hat with flesh straps.
Hair in a bun and net at nape of neck.
Brown or green tweed jacket
Shirt
Tie to match over check in jacket
Brown leather gloves
Canary or beige jods
Long black boots
Show cane.
		
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Love the fact that you are using brown gear - always looks better than black - however would disagree with wearing a navy hat with green tweed, far nice to have blue tweed or brown with a brown hat, brown leather gloves with cream string back, skip the numnah - if the saddle  fits it shouldn't need it.


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## conniegirl (7 January 2017)

Tnavas said:



			Love the fact that you are using brown gear - always looks better than black - however would disagree with wearing a navy hat with green tweed, far nice to have blue tweed or brown with a brown hat, brown leather gloves with cream string back, skip the numnah - if the saddle  fits it shouldn't need it.
		
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I think your knowledge of UK showing is somewhat out of date. Blue tweeds are a no no at anything higher than local levels, brown hats are rare. Navy blue hat is the norm with green tweeds, normally on M&M's the jacket also has a navy velvet collar

Cream string back defiantly not done any longer, brown leather gloves always unless you have super hands in which case you may get away with yellow chamois gloves.
Always numnahs now. Sheep skin ones are the norm, you will only see people without a numnah at a very low level


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## Tnavas (7 January 2017)

conniegirl said:



			I think your knowledge of UK showing is somewhat out of date. Blue tweeds are a no no at anything higher than local levels, brown hats are rare. Navy blue hat is the norm with green tweeds, normally on M&M's the jacket also has a navy velvet collar

Cream string back defiantly not done any longer, brown leather gloves always unless you have super hands in which case you may get away with yellow chamois gloves.
Always numnahs now. Sheep skin ones are the norm, you will only see people without a numnah at a very low level
		
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All the colours of the rainbow! BLUE hat, GREEN Jacket, BROWN Gloves, CANARY Jodhs and no doubt BLACK boots! Numnahs are not a necessity at all ever! if the saddle fits you don not need one.


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## conniegirl (7 January 2017)

Tnavas said:



			All the colours of the rainbow! BLUE hat, GREEN Jacket, BROWN Gloves, CANARY Jodhs and no doubt BLACK boots! Numnahs are not a necessity at all ever! if the saddle fits you don not need one.
		
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Inthe show ring numnahs they are correct. You won't see anyone without one at a decent level. 
Here are the pictures of the Connie class at HOYS this year
Almost everyone is in a green or brown tweed with a navy hat
http://www.esphotography.co.uk/even...OPClass26BMMConnamaraCamera2/page/1/#B55_4043
One girl is in a grey tweed with a grey hat and one in a brown tweed with brown hat but the rest of the class are in navy hats with brown tweeds or green tweeds infact both first and second are in green jackets with navy hats.

If you are going to offer advice please make sure it is correct and up to date! In a horse class for example a green or brown hat are big no no's regardless of what colour you jacket is, your hat must be navy, you can only get away with green or brown hats in the pony classes.


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## Tnavas (7 January 2017)

conniegirl said:



			Inthe show ring numnahs they are correct. You won't see anyone without one at a decent level. 
Here are the pictures of the Connie class at HOYS this year
Almost everyone is in a green or brown tweed with a navy hat
http://www.esphotography.co.uk/even...OPClass26BMMConnamaraCamera2/page/1/#B55_4043
One girl is in a grey tweed with a grey hat and one in a brown tweed with brown hat but the rest of the class are in navy hats with brown tweeds or green tweeds infact both first and second are in green jackets with navy hats.

If you are going to offer advice please make sure it is correct and up to date! In a horse class for example a green or brown hat are big no no's regardless of what colour you jacket is, your hat must be navy, you can only get away with green or brown hats in the pony classes.
		
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_infact both first and second are in green jackets with navy hats_ Have you considered that the riders might have been on the best horses, and the coloour of their hat and jacket had nothing to do with the placing!!!!

Unless you are in a turnout class - you can get away with whatever colour you choose. While you are happy with a multitude of colours - which is very tasteless, I wouldn't! Over the years I've won many, many turnout classes, prepared winning riders and horses in turnout classes. 

So styles have changed over the years - I showed at National level, prepared Jennie Lorriston Clarkes show horses - PEOPLE, not the judges set the trend, that doesn't mean its correct, what happens is a horse wins a class a few times - the rider is wearing anassortment of colours and people think OH to be successful, I must  dress like her! - If I were showing now I would still where my blue tweed, Navy hat, pale blue shirt & navy tie, cream string back gloves, if I were on the best horse I would still win. I am not a sheep. 

A few years ago there was an all out trend for colour everywhere, browbands, rosettes, cuffs, striped shirts with spotted ties. One young rider showed at HOY with everything quietly elegant and won several titles.

Again Numnahs too are a trend and the half pad numnahs are the worst for a horses back. I don't even own one and have been riding for almost 60years.

ONe of the riders I produced for a Royal Show - won her class


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## conniegirl (7 January 2017)

I am out out there now, I show in HOYS qualifies and county shows NOW not 20 years ago. I also judge. So no whilst I'm not judging the outfit I am judging the overall picture and being correctly turned out helps. Several of my good friends regularly win and go champion at hoys, county shows and RIHS. I regularly win! 

The photo you Posted was obviously a long time ago, the horse looks like a hunter but her jacket is a navy. If she is wearing a navy because it's the afternoon at a royal show then she should be wearing a stock not a tie, if the horse was in the hack class (which I doubt given the type of horse) then a ribbon browband would have been correct.

Numnahs serve a purpose, that is to collect the sweat from the horse preventing the leather of your saddle from damage but also your horses back from sweaty leather!
No numnahs would be like you wearing trainers without socks, if you do that your trainers won't last very long and will get horrific very quickly, also no matter how well they fit in the first place if you introduce sweat and leather against skin they will start rubbing. 
No numnahs was fine when The saddles had serge underneath! Most showing people do not use half pads, they use a thin sheepskin numnahs that is discrete and barely shows under the saddle. Courtlea numnahs at popular at the moment but very expensive as they are Taylor made to your saddle.

Please feel free to browse all the hoys photos from this year, you will find you are wrong.
Showing has gotten a lot more competitive since your day 20+ years ago and your horse likely wouldn't get a look in now.

Farma you can choose who to listen to, the person (me) currently out showing and winning in the U.K. Or the person on the other side of he world who's showing knowledge of the UK is at least 20 if not 30 years out of date


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## Farma (7 January 2017)

Hi thanks for all the advice! Do you mind if I contact you as we go along? 
I notice with the manes they are around half length, I was told to leave completely natural but looking at the pics they are tidied to an extent is that right?


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## conniegirl (7 January 2017)

Yes Connie manes are tidied, one of the few breeds where it is acceptable!
If I could work out how to get photobucket to work with my iPad I'd post a photo of my Connie for you.
Feel free to pm me


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## conniegirl (7 January 2017)

Farma, please clear your pm's


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## be positive (7 January 2017)

Tnavas said:



_infact both first and second are in green jackets with navy hats_ Have you considered that the riders might have been on the best horses, and the coloour of their hat and jacket had nothing to do with the placing!!!!

Unless you are in a turnout class - you can get away with whatever colour you choose. While you are happy with a multitude of colours - which is very tasteless, I wouldn't! Over the years I've won many, many turnout classes, prepared winning riders and horses in turnout classes. 

So styles have changed over the years - I showed at National level, prepared Jennie Lorriston Clarkes show horses - PEOPLE, not the judges set the trend, that doesn't mean its correct, what happens is a horse wins a class a few times - the rider is wearing anassortment of colours and people think OH to be successful, I must  dress like her! - If I were showing now I would still where my blue tweed, Navy hat, pale blue shirt & navy tie, cream string back gloves, if I were on the best horse I would still win. I am not a sheep. 

A few years ago there was an all out trend for colour everywhere, browbands, rosettes, cuffs, striped shirts with spotted ties. One young rider showed at HOY with everything quietly elegant and won several titles.

Again Numnahs too are a trend and the half pad numnahs are the worst for a horses back. I don't even own one and have been riding for almost 60years.

ONe of the riders I produced for a Royal Show - won her class





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I am wondering what class that was and of what relevance the  photo is to the OP as the rider is in a dark jacket, plain bridle and dressage saddle which is a strange combination for a show class at any level.   

I am with conniegirl on rider attire navy hats are always correct other colours just stand out for the wrong reasons.


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## conniegirl (7 January 2017)

be positive said:



			I am wondering what class that was and of what relevance the  photo is to the OP as the rider is in a dark jacket, plain bridle and dressage saddle which is a strange combination for a show class at any level.   

I am with conniegirl on rider attire navy hats are always correct other colours just stand out for the wrong reasons.
		
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And in a snaffle as well which given even the 4 yr old hunters at county level are shown mainly in doubles begs the question which class!

Think I've worked out adding photos from ipad.





I made the mistake of buying a blue tweed jacket when I first started showing my Connie over 15 years ago. I was very quickly corrected on it by a very eminent show producer who has a good many HOYS and RIHS supreme championships to her name.
Expensive mistake to make!


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## be positive (7 January 2017)

conniegirl said:



			And in a snaffle as well which given even the 4 yr old hunters at county level are shown mainly in doubles begs the question which class!

Think I've worked out adding photos from ipad.





I made the mistake of buying a blue tweed jacket when I first started showing my Connie over 15 years ago. I was very quickly corrected on it by a very eminent show producer who has a good many HOYS and RIHS supreme championships to her name.
Expensive mistake to make!
		
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Nice to see straight topped boots with garter straps they are becoming a thing of the past as well.


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## conniegirl (7 January 2017)

be positive said:



			Nice to see straight topped boots with garter straps they are becoming a thing of the past as well.
		
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Probably because they are hard to get hold of! I was lucky, I got mine second hand from eBay, they fit like a glove. I've snapped one of the garter straps so now looking for a new strap (probably have to replace both I think)


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## The Fuzzy Furry (7 January 2017)

Tnavas, I've produced quite a number at National level to HOYS and Olympia several times over (and indeed done v well, blowing own trumpet lol). 

Even then, back in the 80's, 90's and into this century, it was very rare indeed to see anything different from a blue hat, with the odd exceptions for those who used it as a trademark. Indeed when I took my 1st one to Olympia in 79, there was only the 'one' in a non-navy hat.
Ref the gloves, they have been dk brown leather as far back as I remember, the only exception being in hack classes up till the early 80's when a few oldies still sported pale backs to theirs. I do remember riding in string gloves back in the early 70's as a child, but this was when leather was quite prohibitive in costs.

Also, I have always had a neat thin numnah under the saddle, for the reasons Conniegirl mentions.
I can only think you must have been doing this in the early 70's or before?

OP, conniegirls advice is spot on


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## Farma (7 January 2017)

conniegirl said:



			Farma, please clear your pm's
		
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All clear  x


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## Tnavas (7 January 2017)

Conniegirl. I was trained in a yard where the owner was a Master Saddler, he always drummed into us that the kindest thing for a horses back was well conditioned leather. A numnah blocks the airflow under the saddle, it causes the horse to sweat, it traps the sweat and any dirt. His wife produced show ponies with many wins at HOY, IHS, & Olympia. 

My dressage saddle is still going strong, bought in 1976, it's now in use by one of my students. The leather is soft and supple and shows no sign of damage. It's now 40years old! 

Sadly many of you have been raised and brainwashed into believing you HAVE to have a numnah, you don't! Without one saddles stay fitting the horse snugly, they don't need to have the girth tightened to such a degree they make the horse uncomfortable. In the ,70's numnahs were made of sheepskin, were very thin and generally only used when you went hunting.

The picture I posted was 20 years ago, showing saddles didn't exist in NZ, the class was a special, very well supported class called the NIDFA trophy, it included turnout and a unity class, which judges the partnership of horse and rider. This was the riders last year in the Junior section, she won turnout and came third overall. The jacket is black, not navy.

Sadly now riders are at the mercy of retailers, now you can only buy what they are prepared to sell. At one time you could buy your velvet hat in a variety of subtle colours, Black, Brown, Green & Navy, in all sizes and shapes. Now you can't, same with boots as someone pointed out in an earlier post. 

Eventually what you wear will change, that happens, but a quality, tasteful turnout will survive. 

Can you honestly say that those multitudes of various colour look tasteful? And distracting in much the same way as bling! As a judge I hope that when you are judging a type class you focus on the horse, not the rider who is there merely to show off the horse.


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## ester (7 January 2017)

Ok so I am curious, why were numnahs used when hunting?

I don't think a maid in a black jacket has ever been correct has it?

I guess the thing is the OP is looking to be in the show ring now, not 20+ years ago.


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## Tnavas (7 January 2017)

ester said:



			Ok so I am curious, why were numnahs used when hunting?

I don't think a maid in a black jacket has ever been correct has it?

I guess the thing is the OP is looking to be in the show ring now, not 20+ years ago.
		
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I always wondered why the hunters went out with a sheepskin - maybe someone setting a trend!

Showing in NZ was vastly different than UK, 20 years ago there were few saddlery shops, no-one had a show saddle, most used dressage saddles, many still do. 

Never saw tweed jackets, only black. The only people different would be the new UK immigrants. I remember one saddlery owner arriving back from the UK with velvet browbands with rosettes on the side. She was avid showy so started a trend, rosettes have got so big currently they look like the ponies have bug eyes! 

As for the OP here question was the correct colour of tack, we've all been side tracked by conniegirl saying about what to wear.

Brown leather would always be my first choice, it matures gracefully!


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## ester (7 January 2017)

Actually no, she asked about correct rider attire too, so conniegirl was replying to the question.

'Also if the rider is adult is there correct attire or is general show gear fine?'


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## Tnavas (7 January 2017)

ester said:



			Actually no, she asked about correct rider attire too, so conniegirl was replying to the question.

'Also if the rider is adult is there correct attire or is general show gear fine?'
		
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DOH! Must need new classes, didn't register that bit!


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## Pearlsasinger (7 January 2017)

conniegirl said:



			I think your knowledge of UK showing is somewhat out of date. Blue tweeds are a no no at anything higher than local levels, brown hats are rare. Navy blue hat is the norm with green tweeds, normally on M&M's the jacket also has a navy velvet collar

Cream string back defiantly not done any longer, brown leather gloves always unless you have super hands in which case you may get away with yellow chamois gloves.
Always numnahs now. Sheep skin ones are the norm, you will only see people without a numnah at a very low level
		
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This is simply a matter of fashion. Numnahs should be discreet if you use one. , judges rarely comment to competitors on their turnout but they make some very telling comments to each other/stewards. Many judges are very 'old school' and don't particularly appreciate new fashions. Remember that turnout contributes to the all over picture but the horse and the ride it gives is what is being judged.

ETA, it is possible to buy velvet hats in different colours for showing, Charles Owen make them to special order.


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## Tnavas (7 January 2017)

Pearlsasinger said:



			This is simply a matter of fashion. Numnahs should be discreet if you use one. , judges rarely comment to competitors on their turnout but they make some very telling comments to each other/stewards. Many judges are very 'old school' and don't particularly appreciate new fashions. Remember that turnout contributes to the all over picture but the horse and the ride it gives is what is being judged.

ETA, it is possible to buy velvet hats in different colours for showing, Charles Owen make them to special order.
		
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I still have my Charles Owen - its around 40 years old and been recovered twice. I love it - fits like a glove.

Of the block of pictures someone posted earlier there were only two turnouts that I enjoyed, a rider in brown tweed and brown hat, and a rider in Grey with a grey hat (could be faded black!


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## The Fuzzy Furry (7 January 2017)

ester said:



			I guess the thing is the OP is looking to be in the show ring now, not 20+ years ago.
		
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oy - more than 35+ yrs ago here !


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## rara007 (7 January 2017)

Connie girl is correct especially as you're only just starting. You don't need a numnah and certainly none is better than a poorly fitting one but if you have the option and your pony isn't the shortest in the back I'd always use one at the moment. In the UK showing is about matching everyone turnout wise and the horses quality standing out from the others rather than having an unusual outfit. This is especially true for an unknown combination where they'll assume a blue tweed or coloured hat is an amateurish mistake rather than a conscious effort!


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## ester (7 January 2017)

The Fuzzy Furry said:



			oy - more than 35+ yrs ago here ! 

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I was being polite, hence the subtle +


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## spottybotty (9 January 2017)

Tnavas said:



			I always wondered why the hunters went out with a sheepskin - maybe someone setting a trend!

Showing in NZ was vastly different than UK, 20 years ago there were few saddlery shops, no-one had a show saddle, most used dressage saddles, many still do. 

Never saw tweed jackets, only black. The only people different would be the new UK immigrants. I remember one saddlery owner arriving back from the UK with velvet browbands with rosettes on the side. She was avid showy so started a trend, rosettes have got so big currently they look like the ponies have bug eyes! 

As for the OP here question was the correct colour of tack, we've all been side tracked by conniegirl saying about what to wear.

Brown leather would always be my first choice, it matures gracefully!
		
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Conniegirl has given sound advice. Showing turnout is steeped in tradition. Black jackets were never worn for showing in the UK by ladies or maids as it was considered a colour to be worn when in mourning and the same goes for velvet (really old school traditionalist wont have velvet collars on their jackets), just take a look at two of the top lady producers in the UK Katie Jerram and Carol Bardot as an example of traditional turnout. Blue tweed was never worn for showing as it was a cheaper cut tweed fabric that only hunt staff and "staff"  wore when excercising in a bygone era. Brown leather is used as black was considered a cheap, poorer quality leather.


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## conniegirl (9 January 2017)

Tnavas said:



			I still have my Charles Owen - its around 40 years old and been recovered twice. I love it - fits like a glove.

Of the block of pictures someone posted earlier there were only two turnouts that I enjoyed, a rider in brown tweed and brown hat, and a rider in Grey with a grey hat (could be faded black!
		
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Shows just how out of touch you are doesn't it! given that the block of pictures was from HOYS, the pinnacle of UK showing. the best of the best!

you still haven't explained how a picture of a horse at a show in a country nearly 12000 miles away, in a completely different class, 20 years ago who would have been incorrectly turned out in the UK even back then (black jacket on a woman has always been incorrect even for the equivalent class), is relevant to the M&M show ring in the UK now?


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## Tnavas (9 January 2017)

I may now be out of date, doesn't mean I have to like the rainbow look. 

The rider in the brown tweed and brown hat looked elegantly smart, not like she'd been dressed by a committee!


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## conniegirl (9 January 2017)

Tnavas said:



			I may now be out of date, doesn't mean I have to like the rainbow look. 

The rider in the brown tweed and brown hat looked elegantly smart, not like she'd been dressed by a committee!
		
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your opinion only and not one commonly found in showing in the UK.

You still havn't explained the photo though?


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## KautoStar1 (9 January 2017)

OP the most important thing is that you & your pony are clean and tidy and that your pony is well schooled and mannerly.   No one is going to ask you to leave the ring if you are wearing blue tweed or using a brown dressage saddle.  Conniegirl is correct in terms of what's correct but not everyone has everything to hand and sometimes in the short term we have to make do with what we have.  As long as everything is conservative eg no pink saddle cloths or dressage blingy browbands you will be fine. 
I showed for the first season is dress top long boots and a GP saddle because it was all I had and until I knew whether I was going to do well I just made do.


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