# What do you class as a novice rider?



## Vodkagirly (14 September 2010)

Sparked off by the sellers wasting time thread, I'm interested in what you would class as a novice rider. For instance I've been riding for 25 years and would consider myself competent on nervous, bucking and napping horses but i am a nervous jumper and not keen on going over 2 foot, does that make me a novice? I know lots of people who are far more confident over jumps but wouldn't get on the horses I ride.


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## Meowy Catkin (14 September 2010)

The main difference in my mind between a novice and non-novice rider is that a non-novice can adapt their riding to suit the individual horse. They have learnt to assess and read the horse and are definately a 'rider' and not a 'passenger'. They can also nip potential problems in the bud before it escalates and have a bank of knowledge and experiances to call upon.


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## royal (14 September 2010)

I class nervous and novice as being two different things....altho of course there are those that are nervous novices!!

To me a novice is someone who for example, cannot work a horse correctly from behind into an outline, maybe isn't that balanced, doesn't know how to work a horse correctly around corners/bending etc...that kind of thing...there's different degree's of course...I would class someone who can't for instance canter competently as being a beginner....a novice to me is that next step up.

My horse would be perfect for a novice, she will not react if the rider makes mistakes or isn't balanced and will go as slow as she feels the rider needs, but she can put in the odd small spook so would not be suitable for a nervous novice...


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## R2R (14 September 2010)

To me novice means anything &#8211; however for the sake of a &#8220;not novice ride&#8221; sale, I would say that a novice is someone who has the inability to tackle a horses quirks alone, does not think of an instant solution when put under pressure with a schooling or behavioural issue, and would be spooked by behaviour with would not phase others. This is not to say, however, that it is someone who thinks they need no help with working a horse 'properly'  &#8211; just someone that is competent enough to ride a quirky horse without putting themselves/the horse in danger. You assume, when selling horses, that people who are investing £thousands in an equestrian friend have at the very least, the first idea of how to walk, trot, canter, and pop a pole, as well as muck out etc! 

Having seen varying degrees of people who &#8220;aren&#8217;t novices&#8221; with much amusement, especially when coming to try horses for sale or loan, I would suggest fully to any prospective buyer that the humble approach is always best. Tis very frustrating when you say &#8220;not novice ride&#8221; and people assure you they will be OK, then turn up and complain about the horses quirks or even worse get on and you can just tell they aren&#8217;t what they say they are. It doesnt matter if they cant get the horse working properly, rather than, for example, if you have told them a horse spooks for the first 10 mins and they cant sit to the spooks then get off and complain that the horse is spooky... Similarly, it is always nice to have a rider come to see a horse who plays down their ability on the phone then rides the horse beautifully on viewing.


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## hudsonw (14 September 2010)

It's hard to know how you class a rider as not a novice as different people have different standards of judging other peoples riding and experience.
I also think that you can be an experienced rider but perhaps a novice around the yard, handerling or perhaps at a discipline.
I would consider a novice to be someone who has ridden for a while but is nervous and needsto build confidence. Perhaps has only ever ridden at a riding school on safe horses or someone who can ride a bit but has never owned their own.
I also think it's just as hard to say whether a horse is suitable for a novice to own or ride. I undersand people don't want their horses being sold to numptys but sometimes "not a novice ride" means uncontrolable horse?!!?


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## Vicstress (15 September 2010)

I would class myself as a novice.  I don't think it's a 'time' thing as such but:

Given the right horse I'll happy jump up to 3ft6
Don't mind spooks
Can deal with the odd buck

However, I couldn't (and wouldn't) get on any horse and ride it.....there are horses at the yard I give a wide berth as I jus tknow it would be a disaster if I sat on them. 

I think to sum it up, a novice is someone who needs the 'right' horse to go out and do things as opposed to being able to do it on 'any' horse.

I would say the majority of people on this forum are probably novices but would never admit it!


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## maletto (15 September 2010)

Hmmmm. I'm not sure about some of the above comments - Until a couple of weeks ago, I'd only ridden my boy for the last 8 years, so wouldn't really have known whether I was able to get a tune out of most horses. 

My horse is a nappy little s**t and often throws in a buck or kicks out or shies away from stuff in order to get out of work and, because I can cope with this, have been riding for 21 years and compete him quite regularly, would never have called myself a novice.

However, I rode my friend's (proper dressage) horse this weekend and she said that I "actually rode her quite nicely" so it can't have all been bad! And the weekend before that I jumped my other friend's horse and that was pretty good too.

But if I HADN'T ridden these other horses, and in so doing realised I could, would that make me a novice?

I certainly would go view a horse that was described as not for novices and would not think that the seller would think I was a novice....

I also am not sure about how much you need to work a horse from behind to be able to not call yourself a novice, depending on what you want the horse for: 

My sharer, I would not call a novice, as when she came to try him, she got on him and looked pretty hectic in the school but then said she wasn't really into riding round in circles indoors - so we went for a little hack together and she was great - rode him really confidently which is exactly what he needs to avoid the napping stuff.

So to look at her in the school, you'd think - what a numpty, she's not even rising to the correct diagonal, but that's not her preferred discipline.


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## Vicstress (15 September 2010)

Maletto - I don't necessarily think that someone who can work a horse in an outline is not a novice.....I'm sure we all know of people with 'dressage' horses who are too scared to hack them out


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## maletto (15 September 2010)

Too true Vicstress, too true!


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## Flame_ (15 September 2010)

Novice means beginner. 

A rider who has been riding for years but still can't ride very well is just poor, not novice.

Nervous means lacking confidence not skill.

That's how I see it anyway.


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## Vicstress (15 September 2010)

Flame_ said:



			Novice means beginner. 

A rider who has been riding for years but still can't ride very well is just poor, not novice.

Nervous means lacking confidence not skill.

That's how I see it anyway.
		
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That's a really interesting take on it.  So I would be a very poor and lacking confidence rider


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## spotty_pony (15 September 2010)

What Faracat said!

IMO you can be a novice as a beginner but even if you can walk trot, canter and jump you can still be a novice. To be classed as an experienced rider you have to be able to adapt your riding to the horse you are riding and be able to 'think outside the box' as every horse is different and will need to be ridden in a different way.


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## Holly Hocks (15 September 2010)

I consider myself a novice.  I have two ex-racehorses - one I have schooled nicely and the other will be started properly in a couple of months.  I compete in low level dressage, hack out alone on fast hacks BUT.......if you asked me to jump anything bigger than a crosspole I would go into meltdown!!!


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## Meowy Catkin (15 September 2010)

Thanks SJ_superstars! It's so nice to have someone agree with me!  thank you.


Maletto, IMO you are not a novice and it was irrelevant (sp?) whether you rode those other horses are not. You obviously 'feel' or 'read' the horse and have the knowledge, balance and ability to act on that, which I think is the important thing. You either have reached that skill level or you haven't and it makes no difference if you ride the same horse for 8 years the skill is still there.  I hope that makes sense.


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## E_Lister (15 September 2010)

Maletto said:



			My sharer, I would not call a novice, as when she came to try him, she got on him and looked pretty hectic in the school but then said she wasn't really into riding round in circles indoors - so we went for a little hack together and she was great - rode him really confidently which is exactly what he needs to avoid the napping stuff.

So to look at her in the school, you'd think - what a numpty, she's not even rising to the correct diagonal, but that's not her preferred discipline.
		
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I know the correct diagonal and can identify (and normally get the horse to strike off on) the correct canter lead. But my schooling and jumping are *ahem* undeveloped! I am working on the schooling because I feel it is more important to improve that than jump as control is key when jumping!

I am perfectly capable of riding sensible horses confidently out hacking. I would be happy to walk and trot them until I got to know them, then judge whether or not I could canter and possibly gallop them. I can deal with small scale napping and spooks, I can sit the odd buck or rear as well if they are done without the intention of getting the rider off! I sometimes think that here I am better than many "experienced" riders (esp when they look down their noses at "that numpty novice happy hacker") because I ride lots of different horses on the road with confidence. I understand the "rules of the road" so to speak and am able to handle most things that happen on hacks competently and safely.

I am not sure myself about my schooling ability, I only school my share mare in lessons and she hasn't been schooled at all in her 14 years of life. Therefore they are fights and I can't judge where I would be on a less opinionated pony! I know the basics and can get by, I even know a lot of the theory for higher level stuff, I just don't have the ability to put that into practice. 

Jumping, on a forgiving horse I can jump a course of 2'6 and could jump higher had I not decided I wanted to understand how and what I was asking for and what I needed to do after that. But I wouldnt even TRY jumping on a difficult horse.

I know a fair deal about stable management and horsey first aid considering I have never owned/loaned my own horse. I am perfectly capable of basic first aid. Most importantly of all I am never afraid to ask for help if I feel that I can't 100% cope in a situation where are horse is not well.

If that is not a description of a novice, I don't know what is!


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## Quadro (15 September 2010)

I think the difference between a novice ans experianced rider is that the experianced rider is able to influance the horses way of going (paces, submission etc etc) in a positive way and to improve these things.
A novice can walk, trot, canter jump etc but cannot educate the horse to improve these things.


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## Lurky McLurker (15 September 2010)

I often wonder about this too... I'd definitely call myself a novice rider because I have only been riding for about 15 months (I rode as a child, but hadn't been on a horse in about 5 years til last May).  I can trot on the correct diagonal and ask for the correct lead in canter, jump a small crosspole (like, less than 2ft) and handle small bucks, napping and spooks; but my balance, especially in canter, needs a lot of improvement, I don't know how to get a horse on the bit or into an outline, or do lateral work, and I can be quite nervous on horses I've never ridden before.  I'd say I'm a fairly typical novice.  I think I'd stop calling myself a novice once I'd improved my core strength and balance, learned more about getting a horse going well, and become more confident on a variety of horses.  I wouldn't buy a horse that said "not novice ride" in the ad, but at the same time I can handle something a little bit forward going or opinionated.

I think the main thing is just to be honest about your riding ability when buying a horse, booking a lesson with a new instructor or whatever.  As long as you know your own abilities and can be honest about what you can and can't do, it doesn't matter what you or other people label you as.


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## thatsmygirl (15 September 2010)

Ummm this is interesting so you can see how "novice " in a ad can mean so many different things to people.  I'm crap at schooling horses but riding race horses is no problem and can sit neally anything a horse chucks at me. And will get on any horse reguardless off behaviour problems. Jumping I can jump 1m 20 ok and love hunting,ht etc. But put me in a school and my flat work is dreadful and really needs work. Can do the basics but that's all. Very hard having lessons when your use to jockey stirrups!!
So because some people say a novice should be good at flat work etc, does that make me a novice?


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## hessy12 (15 September 2010)

Flame_ said:



			Novice means beginner. 

A rider who has been riding for years but still can't ride very well is just poor, not novice.

Nervous means lacking confidence not skill.

That's how I see it anyway.
		
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I agree with this. Great summary!


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## PIP17 (15 September 2010)

Gosh - I dont know what that would make me then, I have been riding on and off since I was little and owned my own ponies/horses too but I wouldnt describe myself as being super confident or anything. I know how to look after my boy properly and am happy hacking out alone etc and can cope with whatever comes our way - but if I went to view another horse to buy I would be TOTALLY truthful about my own ability.


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## Honey08 (15 September 2010)

Its interesting isn't it.  Really "Not novice ride" needs expanding on.  I recently sold a pony as "forward going but safe, suit confident novice", as it was fine as long as the child didn't tense up and panic... An ad really needs to expand on why the horse is not nervous novice.  People also need to realise their capabilities too. 

I have a friend who rides her own steady cob a advanced medium, and jumps 3' rounds, but would be terrified of getting on someone else's horse.  IMHO she is a very good  and experienced rider, but very nervous...  At the other extreme, there is a chap at our RC who only learnt to ride this year, and got a horse.  Without ever having learnt to jump he enters open (3'6") jumping (I really wish he didn't - its not nice to watch) and gets round out of pure confidence and determination...  My ex was the same type.  I always say the perfect rider would be a cross of these two types of rider!

For those of you that say you're very confident, but don't jump, you're only a novice jumper, so were you to buy a general riding horse, you wouldn't need a not-novice ride, but if you were to buy a horse to jump you would need something for novices...

My hubby's young horse is better with a novice rider!  They don't push him or ask him to work, so he bumbles along with them.  With myself and my groom, who realise he is getting older and needs to be pushed a little, he is a git, and can be quite stroppy!  (typical lazy bloke-horse really!)


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## thinlizzy (15 September 2010)

i class myself as a novice rider i have a newly turned four yo and hack out solo 99% of the time i know nothing technical , ie movements dressage jumping but am aware novice can be interpreted into differant things by different people wonder  what i would be classed as ?


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## MiJodsR2BlinkinTite (15 September 2010)

Gosh! This is a difficult one. I started riding when I was 7 (am nearly 50 now!!!) - but having to make the choice between horses -v- career, I never really had the time to work on my riding even though I owned my own horse, but just settled into being a happy hacker, so because of that always had "easy" horses. So I wouldn't describe myself as "experienced" or "confident". 

I would think perhaps a novice is someone who wouldn't be confident to hack out alone; they'd perhaps be able to walk, trot, canter and maybe pop a fence, but in a school rather than out across country. I would say a "novice" wouldn't hunt on their own or find their own line across country, or be able to deal with any horse other than something push-button.

They wouldn't have good sensitive hands or an independent seat, or be able to "think horse" and understand about empathy with their mount.

When I was in Pony Club, we had Pony Club C test which was really the bar for a novice: anything below C and you were novice, C and above you were considered capable of keeping a pony at grass on your own basically.


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## Ted's mum (15 September 2010)

Vicstress said:



			I would class myself as a novice.  I don't think it's a 'time' thing as such but:

Given the right horse I'll happy jump up to 3ft6
Don't mind spooks
Can deal with the odd buck

However, I couldn't (and wouldn't) get on any horse and ride it.....there are horses at the yard I give a wide berth as I jus tknow it would be a disaster if I sat on them. 

I think to sum it up, a novice is someone who needs the 'right' horse to go out and do things as opposed to being able to do it on 'any' horse.

I would say the majority of people on this forum are probably novices but would never admit it!
		
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agree with this!


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## blitznbobs (15 September 2010)

I'd class a novice as someone who doesn't look/feel comfortable on a horse... and has to think about what they are doing rather than it being well... obvious.simples.

Bx


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## welsh_monster (15 September 2010)

According to the forms that we use at the riding school I work at, which are issued by our insurance company, a novice is classed as "an individual capable of walking, trotting and cantering securely."

Intermediate is "an individual who can walk, trot, canter and jump up to 1ft 6' "

Advanced all of above, jumping over 2ft.

However, when describing not a novice ride in an advert I would expect people to be capable of handling spooks, bucks etc, which I can safely say very few of our novices can on the very rare occasion they happen! 

The only way you can ever tell is by seeing someone ride, I wouldn't say I'm a novice, but I wouldn't say I'm amazing! I have broken my 6 yr old stroppy mare myself, I can jump on any horse at work and hack it, jump it, or do basic schooling. However all the people I work with describe my level differently! One of our liveries told me I was a "s**t hot rider", about an hour later another asked how long I'd been riding as she was concerned about my ability to lead a canter hack?!


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## HappyHorses:) (15 September 2010)

Someone who falls off when their horse puts their head down suddenly to eat the grass


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## Thelwell_Girl (15 September 2010)

This is an interesting thread 

I would, personally, class myself as a novice. I can w/t/c, jump around 1'6 (still learning though!), can deal with a few little bucks, and am quite good on the ground with the horses and with stable management.

If Im jumping, I do ask to ride Bonnie, or if thats not at all possible, then Albert. These are two of the three horses I have ever jumped.

As much of an utter cowbag as Bonnie can be, I love her and trust her. I know that I can point her at a jump and she will go, and knowing this gives me the confidence to try!

I do kind of agree that, for me, depending on the activity, it has to be the right horse. I will only at the moment jump on Albert or Bonnie, and am now riding the more forward going RS horses on the flat, like Pally.

I do have some confidence crisis (if I have a bad lesson, i do take it to heart and get quite down). Before my first ever SJ course (just a diddy one!) I felt like I was having a heart attack, and after my first dressage test I burst into tears with relief!

ETA: I do think that muscular strength comes into play as well. A few years ago I probably wasnt physically strong enough to stop a pony putting its head down/messing around. Now, however, a summer of riding 2/3 times a week has greatly improved my overall strength and fitness, and ability to deal with a 'naughty horse' to some extent.

ETA again!: I can identify the right diagonal (Rise and fall with the leg on the wall!) but do need reminding occasionally, as with canter leads.


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## numptynoelle (15 September 2010)

E_Lister said:



			I know the correct diagonal and can identify (and normally get the horse to strike off on) the correct canter lead. But my schooling and jumping are *ahem* undeveloped! I am working on the schooling because I feel it is more important to improve that than jump as control is key when jumping!

I am perfectly capable of riding sensible horses confidently out hacking. I would be happy to walk and trot them until I got to know them, then judge whether or not I could canter and possibly gallop them. I can deal with small scale napping and spooks, I can sit the odd buck or rear as well if they are done without the intention of getting the rider off! I sometimes think that here I am better than many "experienced" riders (esp when they look down their noses at "that numpty novice happy hacker") because I ride lots of different horses on the road with confidence. I understand the "rules of the road" so to speak and am able to handle most things that happen on hacks competently and safely.

I am not sure myself about my schooling ability, I only school my share mare in lessons and she hasn't been schooled at all in her 14 years of life. Therefore they are fights and I can't judge where I would be on a less opinionated pony! I know the basics and can get by, I even know a lot of the theory for higher level stuff, I just don't have the ability to put that into practice. 

Jumping, on a forgiving horse I can jump a course of 2'6 and could jump higher had I not decided I wanted to understand how and what I was asking for and what I needed to do after that. But I wouldnt even TRY jumping on a difficult horse.

I know a fair deal about stable management and horsey first aid considering I have never owned/loaned my own horse. I am perfectly capable of basic first aid. Most importantly of all I am never afraid to ask for help if I feel that I can't 100% cope in a situation where are horse is not well.

If that is not a description of a novice, I don't know what is!
		
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This is me! Pretty much exactly really  I'd hate to think that I'd ruin someone else's horse by being a numpty so I'd err on the side of caution when in the school, but I can cope with a fair bit out hacking. (Or so I'd like to think anyway)


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## miss_bird (15 September 2010)

I break all my own horses and they are done to a good standard but i still dont know what to class myself as, maybe not a complete novice 
I dont compete at a high level, cant do most of the higher level dressage moves and not as confident to jump as i used to be so only jump upto 1m.
So in some of the description above i would be a novice, but am i?


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## Achinghips (15 September 2010)

Simples for me: novice is someone who hasn't yet acquired good balance in the saddle at all 3 paces, can't control a horse during basic schooling and who can't handle/train/improve an unpredictable/bad mannered horse on the ground.


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