# Sarcoids - treatment with Liverpool Cream



## Bojingles (24 October 2014)

When clipping the comedy cob I found some sarcoids in her armpit - both nodular and occult. I was shocked to say the least as I clip her legs at least every 6-8 weeks and they weren't there last time. I got the vet out immediately and he sent photos off to Professor Sarcoids at Leahurst who recommended treatment with Liverpool Cream and sent a protocol. For those who aren't familiar with it, it's a highly cytotoxic cream which induces inflammation and - hopefully - tissue death. The plan is that the sarcoids over a number of weeks die and fall off. I knew nothing about this cream before and - obviously - have scared myself half to death googling it . So I thought it might be useful for anyone else in a similar situation or about to embark on treatment to get an idea of what to expect. After two treatments the sarcoids have swollen to about 3 times their original size and have started to crack and weep. I'm cheering myself up with the thought that this means the cream is working. The vet thought he'd have to sedate her to apply the third dose but she's either being extremely stoic or is not in any pain as she didn't even flinch. Here are the pics so far: the first is before treatment and the second is after two applications of the cream.


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## katherine1975 (24 October 2014)

Thank you for posting. My mare has a similar sarcoid in her armpit and like you I have scared myself reading about them! The vet has seen it and has said that we can leave it for now but monitor closely for any changes. If there are any changes we will send pics to Liverpool.
Please keep us up to date with your progress.


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## Iwantakitten (25 October 2014)

For anyone interested I have many pictures of my horses treatments with Liverpool cream for extensive sarcoids over the last 18 months. If I hadn't taken action he would have been pts over them. Awful treatment. That's all I can say.


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## PuzzlePiece (25 October 2014)

I've just treated my gelding with Liverpool cream (well the vet has) for sarcoids between his armpits mainly. He had a huge swelling when we banded one before so I was a bit worried. Can safely say I was really impressed and we had no adverse reaction. It's had the desired result just waiting for last one to fall off and all others have healed wonderfully.
If you're worried talk to your vet, every horse reacts differently and it's hard to tell what will happen. They have to tell you the horror stories to cover their backs but also the cream may not work at all. There are other options of treatment but if you've already been approved for Liverpool cream Id give it a go.


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## Bojingles (25 October 2014)

Thanks for replies everyone. I've just been to see Bella, with a view to putting on a bit of Sudocrem and giving her some bute if necessary. The nodular sarcoids are hugely swollen now; I'd say one is about the size of an apple. She let me have a good look and didn't move away and in the end I applied the Sudocrem without her even wearing a headcollar so I really don't think she's in any pain at all, which is a big relief . She always lets me know her feelings and opinions in no uncertain terms! So far so good and thanks for the good news stories!


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## Cinnamontoast (25 October 2014)

The cream worked well on my horse's nodular one but the occult one on his armpit has sort of risen from the dead. I'm currently feeding turmeric and applying it on the sarcoid, half turmeric to sudocreme. Lots of success stories on the Turmeric User group on Facebook. Might be a handy preventative of they go with the cream.


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## Grumpy Herbert (25 October 2014)

Thanks for posting this.  I'm about to embark on the Liverpool cream treatment for my gelding who has a sarcoid on his sheath.  I'm dreading it, especially as it's in such a sensitive place, but I daren't leave it as it's grown considerably since the vet first looked at it in May.  (I left it over the summer as the flies would have been a nightmare)


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## Meowy Catkin (25 October 2014)

It might be worth PM'ing Tigertail, as one of her horses had a sarcoid lasered successfully.


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## Bojingles (27 October 2014)

Well, Bella had her fourth treatment today and, stoic as she is, it's starting to take its toll now. Although she'd seemed fine over the weekend, the nodular sarcoids have swelled quite considerably and she's looking miserable . She hobbled down the lane to the yard but didn't flinch when the cream was applied. She had some bute this am and pm which perked her up considerably so I'll keep her on that for as long as necessary. Here's her beautiful armpit today - the whit bits are Sudocrem.


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## Grumpy Herbert (1 November 2014)

Poor girl, it's for the best but it looks such a horrid treatment.  I'm dreading starting it with my boy.  Are you giving yours bute before the application of the cream, or after it, or keeping her on it all the time for the duration?  Any advice on how I can make the whole process more bearable for my lad would be gratefully received!


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## Bojingles (1 November 2014)

I think it varies a lot from horse to horse. The vet said he usually has to sedate them by the third or fourth application but Bella was fine. I think they like to hold off the bute for as long as possible as the inflammation is needed to kill off the cells. As soon as I knew she was feeling it we put her on bute, 2 sachets a day. Good luck with your lad - let us know how he gets on.


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## mairiwick (1 November 2014)

Liverpool cream worked fantastically on my mare's rapidly expanding nodular sarcoid. Had the treatment back in Jan/Feb this year, initially it looked angry and more swollen, now there is a little scar tissue to indicate where is was but unless you stick your head under her leg you don't see it. No other sarcoid growth since and she always had a couple, one would grow and the others would be dormant, then they would fall off and a dormant one would grow... 10 months of being sarcoid free now


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## Bojingles (15 November 2014)

Well here we are about 3 weeks after the last treatment, and it's looking really gruesome. To give you an idea of scale the wound's at least an inch deep. The vet warned me how gory it would be but I'm going to get him out next week for a check-up. Poor Bella's still being incredibly brave; she's not overly keen on having sudocrem put on but who can blame her. She's down to one bute a day and seems well in herself.


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## Bojingles (18 November 2014)

A sedation and clean-up later, this is where we are today. An enormous chunk of flesh is half hanging off but fortunately the flesh underneath is good and healthy. The vet was surprised and said the roots of the sarcoid must have been really deep. Poor Bella, she's being very stoic but expecting to clean that up without sedation was a step too far! She's still on bute and now anti-bs just in case. Hope I haven't spoiled anyone's dinner


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## Gloi (18 November 2014)

Gosh, that's going to be a big hole when that flesh sloughs off. It will be worth it in the end to be rid of the sarcoids though and it certainly looks like they are going to be gone.


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## Grumpy Herbert (19 November 2014)

I'm soooo having second thoughts about putting my lad through this seeing these photos, Bojingles.  How big was the sarcoid when you started the treatment?  The one on my gelding has grown, but it isn't bothering him at the moment - I just hate the thought of putting him through the pain of this. (he's 22 and retired due to COPD)  Would you do it again, knowing what you know now?


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## Wagtail (19 November 2014)

Grumpy Herbert said:



			I'm soooo having second thoughts about putting my lad through this seeing these photos, Bojingles.  How big was the sarcoid when you started the treatment?  The one on my gelding has grown, but it isn't bothering him at the moment - I just hate the thought of putting him through the pain of this. (he's 22 and retired due to COPD)  Would you do it again, knowing what you know now?
		
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The three times I have seen this cream used (on livery horses), it really put me off and I decided against using it on my gelding, especially as he was retired in any case. The two horses that it was used on (one twice), reacted very badly to the pain and had to have the vet to sedate each time. One was positively dangerous and really violently kicking out, even when sedated. The treatment was abandoned. The second horse had the treatment twice because the first time the sarcoid came back (treatment was not continued for long enough and didn't get the root). The second time the treatment was horrendous, but successful. However, the wound continued to open up painfully over the next year (blood and gaping wound - was where the hind leg meets the belly so was always moving). Sadly the horse was lost through colic a year after treatment due to internal melanomas.


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## katherine1975 (19 November 2014)

Thank you for the updates, they are very interesting. I hope Bella feels better soon. We are still leaving Saffy's sarcoid and seeing whether it develops, I hope we don't have to give her any treatment.


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## Bojingles (19 November 2014)

Gloi said:



			Gosh, that's going to be a big hole when that flesh sloughs off. It will be worth it in the end to be rid of the sarcoids though and it certainly looks like they are going to be gone.
		
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It's going to be huge isn't it?! 



Grumpy Herbert said:



			I'm soooo having second thoughts about putting my lad through this seeing these photos, Bojingles.  How big was the sarcoid when you started the treatment?  The one on my gelding has grown, but it isn't bothering him at the moment - I just hate the thought of putting him through the pain of this. (he's 22 and retired due to COPD)  Would you do it again, knowing what you know now?
		
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She had several, mostly occult but one nodular. It was about the size of a grape when treatment started and it rapidly swelled to about the size of a large apple and then started cracking. I think I would do it again to be honest, as I genuinely think that, to her, it doesn't feel as bad as it looks. The most painful part was towards the end of the treatment and even then she was fine on her 2 butes. She now lets me put sudocrem on it in the field without a headcollar. She was hooning round her field bucking today - she seems to be feeling well. I don't know if I'd put a 22-year old through it, but I think it varies a lot from horse to horse. 



katherine1975 said:



			Thank you for the updates, they are very interesting. I hope Bella feels better soon. We are still leaving Saffy's sarcoid and seeing whether it develops, I hope we don't have to give her any treatment.
		
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Thanks


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## Grumpy Herbert (20 November 2014)

Thank you for answering, Bojingles.  It's good to hear that it seems almost worse for us as owners than for them!!!  My boy is 22, but is in fantastic shape and if it wasn't for exercise intolerance due to his COPD would still be in work - if he was on his last legs, I wouldn't even consider it.  Will talk it over with my YO who will be supervising any treatment, and decide from there.


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## ester (20 November 2014)

I think that although it looks horrid it should be possible to keep the horse comfortable enough on bute etc.


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## fornema (20 November 2014)

Out of interest how much has the treatment overall cost you? And has it been possible to claim on insurance?


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## Bojingles (20 November 2014)

ester said:



			I think that although it looks horrid it should be possible to keep the horse comfortable enough on bute etc.
		
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I agree - she allowed me to give it quite a decent clean today, including syringing right into the wound, with hardly any fuss at all.



fornema said:



			Out of interest how much has the treatment overall cost you? And has it been possible to claim on insurance?
		
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I've submitted a claim and hopefully it should be covered. So far we're at about £550 but that does include numerous call-outs. I started off by taking her to the vet's for treatment but she gets so sweaty on the lorry that she was sweating the cream off. Without the call-outs it'd be half that.


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## Carrots&Mints (20 November 2014)

My boy has one on his willy and some on his belly, the vets coming out next month to take photos to send to Proffesor Sarcoid at liverpool but on our yard we have one that reacted really badly to the LP cream and has since got in excess of 70 sarcoids, and due to the liverpool cream has become really badly behaved, she had the vet up and he said the best thing they can do is PTS due to the sheer amount of sarcoids... hence Im really reluctant to use LP cream! Especially on a really sensitive area! However I have heard that lasering them off has a really good success rate (I think 80% - don&#8217;t quote me on that though) so going to try and persuade the vet to go down that route &#8211; we don&#8217;t live far from a practise that can do the laser operation, it&#8217;s just hell have to go under for it!


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## Patchworkpony (20 November 2014)

Our cob years ago had a large sarcoid in his chest that our vet treated with Liverpool Cream. It swelled up and look awful at first but eventually the sarcoid dropped out and left a hole the size of an apple that then healed. The sarcoid never came back and we used the cream again on another gelding with a flat sarcoid on his sheath. Yet again very successful. Hope this helps.


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## ester (20 November 2014)

Carrots&Mints said:



			My boy has one on his willy and some on his belly, the vets coming out next month to take photos to send to Proffesor Sarcoid at liverpool but on our yard we have one that reacted really badly to the LP cream and has since got in excess of 70 sarcoids, and due to the liverpool cream has become really badly behaved, she had the vet up and he said the best thing they can do is PTS due to the sheer amount of sarcoids... hence Im really reluctant to use LP cream! Especially on a really sensitive area! However I have heard that lasering them off has a really good success rate (I think 80% - don&#8217;t quote me on that though) so going to try and persuade the vet to go down that route &#8211; we don&#8217;t live far from a practise that can do the laser operation, it&#8217;s just hell have to go under for it!
		
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some are, some aren't suitable for lasering, my vet thought we would laser but didn't in the end. Frank had a squamous cell carcinoma that had 2 treatments over 2 days using a liverpool-like cream and liquid nitrogen (2 treatments as the vet was too nice the first time! He was actually remarkably not sore just had a few days bute. The belly ones probably wont be laserable, not sure it is doable on bellies.


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## Matafleur (20 November 2014)

Just on the subject of lasering, I have had 2 horses done with the cream and 1with laser. I would now go with laser every time, it looks awful but heals very well and I think is nicer for the horse. Mine had 5 lasered off, one big one on his face, one on his girth line, one on elbow and two quite big ones on his belly. They can laser most areas I believe, also much cheaper than the cream.


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## Bojingles (20 November 2014)

I did ask about lasering - the vet said it wouldn't be suitable for the nodular one.


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## Matafleur (20 November 2014)

That's interesting, did they think they wouldn't be able to get deep enough? I'm not at all anti the cream, just that, having had both methods, I'd go for the laser if it was possible


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## Bojingles (20 November 2014)

Matafleur said:



			That's interesting, did they think they wouldn't be able to get deep enough? I'm not at all anti the cream, just that, having had both methods, I'd go for the laser if it was possible 

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Yes, he said it wouldn't get the root.


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## Bojingles (20 November 2014)

Grumpy Herbert, I've completely forgotten to add that the other (occult) sarcoids being treated haven't flared up like this at all - only the nodular one has, so it's not a complete horror story . The others are just hard and black. I'll get some pics tomorrow. One thing I would say is it you're going to go for it, definitely do it in winter as I can't imagine how I'd cope if there were flies around!


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## Grumpy Herbert (23 November 2014)

Thanks Bojingles.  I have left it over the summer for precisely that reason - the flies were absolutely horrendous this year, and I don't think I could cope with fly eggs/maggots!!!  Sadly, it has grown in that time, but me and the vet thought that it was best to leave it til winter.  Think I'll just have to be brave for both of us and go for it.


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## StableMum (23 November 2014)

My daughter's pony had 35 sarcoids that developed over several months, including one on his girth. He was treated with Liverpool cream - the one on his girth shelled out like half a tennis ball and looked horrendous,  but they all went and he has been clear for three years. The treatment wasn't pleasent, but made a little easier as my other daughter was the administering vet. It was however completely worth it.


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## pip6 (24 November 2014)

Friends horse was treated with liverpool cream for sarcoids on stifle. Reacted very badly, in immense pain. They've come back in 3 years, and she says when it gets to a point she will put to sleep rather than use the cream again. We had a mare with them (one on jaw, one on chest, one on stifle). Local homeopathic vet treated her with a few tablets a day. Within 2 weeks they had started to shrivel and just dropped off. We lost her this year to another reason, but she had been clear for 6 years. Recommended vet to friends with them in girth area on competition pony, all gone, not retuned for now over 5 years, pony won young rider national championship class couple of years ago and still competing.

With the 22 yr old horse, I would consider the 'alternatives' so to speak. Treatment our mare had cost us less than £40 in total.


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## Bojingles (27 November 2014)

Today we finally gave in and surgically removed the large sarcoid. It just wasn't doing anything and was all yukky. The wound is pretty bad, and Bella's habit of constantly pawing the ground means it keeps bleeding . I've just sent her off to bed with some Sedalin and will check on her later. I'm dreading the next few days as she HATES being in! Apart from that, she's being incredibly brave, bless her. Brace yourselves, today's pics:


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## Gloi (27 November 2014)

Poor Bella that looks horrid. Let's hope that it's killed all the roots and it heals up nicely for her now.


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## Grumpy Herbert (2 December 2014)

Oh, poor Bella, that looks nasty.  Sarcoids truly are the work of the devil.

Hope she heals nice and quickly now, and thanks for the update!


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## ElvisandTilly (3 December 2014)

I used liverpool cream last November to treat my horses occult flat sarcoid. He had 4 in total and one of these was a nodular one by his eye. Photos were sent to Liverpool and was told the one under jaw couldn't be treated as over his jugular, the one near eye and on inner thigh we had to be really careful with as in risky sensitive places. I decided to have the one on the side of his tummy treated. Whilst waiting for the cream to be made up I used Sarcoid Cleansing Salve from Horse Health. In 3 weeks the nodular one cleared and all but the one on his tummy grew hair back! 

I had the sarcoid on tummy treated with Liverpool cream and I so wish I hadn't! He was fine with the treatment and never minded the cream being applied. It ended up looking like a button on his side. It stayed like this for 8 weeks slowly lifting and if you tapped it with a finger nail it sounded like a piece of wood as the skin went so hard! 

It finally fell off and left skin like in photos above but this then started swelling and raised. After months it did receed back but still to this day he can't bare to have it touched like the nerves in the skin are damaged and over sensitive. It's left a bigger and unsightly scar that is worse than the sarcoid ever looked so very disappointed in outcome.

If I need to treat again I won't be using Liverpool cream again and wish I had known about laser being an option before. :-(


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## Quincy1 (3 December 2014)

Hi, I just wanted to give you hope as 2 weeks ago my horse had an almost identical sarcoid fall off after liverpool treatment.  It was 6 weeks after treatment and he had been really sore for the entire 6 weeks.  Since it has fallen off he has come completely sound and is back in work.  I have been covering it in flamazine, as instructed to by vet.  He has been out in the field and not had any issues with it.  2 weeks on and it is half the size.  It is healing really well with no signs of any sarcoid tissue.  I just wanted to let you know that you are hopefully now on the home straight!


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## sywell (4 December 2014)

Over the last 20 years i have had a number of different sarcoids but have never used the liverpool Cream. Some were raw and red. One near the eye. One nodular inside top of leg. the nodular i treated with an elastic band and it dropped off and healed. The red raw ones were two inches long and the one near the eye was the size of a new penny both cleared up when I used Bazooka. Some in the inside of the rear leg have left a flat grey pack of skin. I may not have done the correct treatment but it worked as well as paying a vet £35 a visit. My Vet wanted to treat the one near the eye with inserted uranium rods £1000 and he said my treatment they might return fortunately they never did. I do not recommend my way of doing things and as these are nasty problems it is always a risk. Whenever we see a small lump that might be a sarcoid out comes teh Bazooka.


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## Pascal96 (4 December 2014)

2 years ago my mare developed  5 small sarcoids  1 under each hind leg 1 under each eye and 1 on her ear.  As they were small and not interfering with anything I left them alone and just kept an eye on them.  I also put her on Global Herbs Sarc-X but as it didnt seem to be having any effect stopped it.  They grew slowly during the rest of that year but unfortunately over Christmas and the new year I got a bad cold followed by flu and I took my eye off of them and 3 of them started to grow aggressively  the ones under her legs and 1 of the ones under her eyes.  My vets took pictures and contacted Liverpool and it was decided to treat the ones under her legs with Liverpool Cream and the 1 under her eye with BCG injections.  Whilst I was waiting for the medication to arrive from Liverpool I put the mare back on Sarc-X and also used Immune Plus my reasoning being that it wasnt likely to cause any harm and might help.  My mare had to be sedated each time  obviously she had to be for the eye but she wouldnt tolerate the Liverpool cream being put on the ones under her legs either.  However she was never uncomfortable between treatments and never needed any bute.  The ones on her legs cleared up really quickly and fell off much earlier than expected and I was warned that the roots may have not been killed and that they could come back.  The one under her eye did not react as quickly as expected and my vet did said he had never experienced this before as generally the BCG injections were very effective and usually cleared it up after 5 treatments.  At this point the other sarcoids under her legs had dropped off so I stopped giving her the Sarc-X and Immune Plus and the one under her eye responded to the extra 2 BCG injections very quickly and it also cleared up.  The interesting thing was that the other 2 sarcoids which were not treated also cleared up and a year and a half later she still has no sign of any of them returning.  It seemed to me that in her case the Sarc-X and Immune Plus had a very positive effect when used in conjunction with the Liverpool cream but seemed to reduce the effect of the BCG injections and I would love to hear if anyone else has had a similar experience.  I also think that although they looked bad on the surface none of them had very deep roots as when they dropped off they didnt leave very deep holes and they soon healed over leaving comparatively small scars and a tiny pucker under her eye.


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## peaceandquiet1 (4 December 2014)

Am following this thread with interest as my pony is currently being treated with Liverpool Cream, on his third application today. Fortunately not yet sore but bracing myself. On Danilon. One is below his eye and a real worry. They are so much bigger than they appear from the surface.


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## Bojingles (31 January 2015)

Well, poor old Bella is still on box rest because I let her have a run-around too soon and she split her wound open . Apart from that, everything seems to be going well. The only sarcoid which was really bad was the nodular one, which has left the wound. The occult ones simply die, turn hard and fall off. This one came off today leaving a tiny wound.


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## Bojingles (24 February 2015)

Bella's round of treatment with Liverpool cream is finally coming to an end as the last sarcoid has come off. It's been quite a long haul because of the open wound left by the nodular sarcoid, but the occult ones have come away quite neatly and easily. I know they may come back but on balance I would do this again. I'll be super-vigilant from now on and the tiniest lesion will get zapped!


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## Carrots&Mints (25 February 2015)

Eeek that looks horrid! Glad bells last sarcoid has fallen off! How long has the process been from start to finish? Merlyns going in for his to be lasered off at Leahurst on Monday! Excited and nervous all at the same time!


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## Bojingles (25 February 2015)

From start to finish it's been 4 months, all on box rest. I'm amazed at how well she's coped! Good luck with Merlyn next week - let us know how you get on! It'll be really interesting to compare treatments. Do you have any pics?


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## oldie48 (25 February 2015)

Thanks to everyone for sharing their experiences, sarcoids are vile and seem to be much more prevalent these days. There are lots of different types so I guess this is why different treatments have different levels of success. I had a horse develop a small warty sarcoid in his armpit, in consultation with my vet I had it surgically removed. It wasn't causing a problem but had it start to grow it would have become an issue. It cost me £80 and was a complete success. my own view is that if you find something that might be a sarcoid it's best to get a vet's advice rather than just keep an eye on it or try to treat it yourself.


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## ycbm (25 February 2015)

I take off occult sarcoids (the ones that look like a different color circle in the hair) with aloe Vera (it has to be the pure stuff, Holland and Barrett sell it)  and bigger ones I take off with copper sulphate and then use aloe vera on the hole to prevent any regrowth and kill the root. It's never failed to work and I've never had one regrow after that treatment.

Aloe Vera has been shown to be effective on skin cancer in mice.


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## ThoroughbredStar (25 February 2015)

ycbm said:



			I take off occult sarcoids (the ones that look like a different color circle in the hair) with aloe Vera (it has to be the pure stuff, Holland and Barrett sell it)  and bigger ones I take off with copper sulphate and then use aloe vera on the hole to prevent any regrowth and kill the root. It's never failed to work and I've never had one regrow after that treatment.

Aloe Vera has been shown to be effective on skin cancer in mice.
		
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Aloe is an amazing thing!!!


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## ester (25 February 2015)

ycbm said:



			I take off occult sarcoids (the ones that look like a different color circle in the hair) with aloe Vera (it has to be the pure stuff, Holland and Barrett sell it)  and bigger ones I take off with copper sulphate and then use aloe vera on the hole to prevent any regrowth and kill the root. It's never failed to work and I've never had one regrow after that treatment.

Aloe Vera has been shown to be effective on skin cancer in mice.
		
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how many do you have? Is that all on one horse?


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## xTrooperx (25 February 2015)

Those sarcoids look just like my mares, I have left them as seem ok at mo, but I know needs treating but looking at the cream the pictures look scary and seems to make things look worse. How long does the treatment take? And rough cost of the liverpool cream treatment.


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## ycbm (25 February 2015)

ester said:



			how many do you have? Is that all on one horse?
		
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Over a number of years I've taken about twenty off a total of six different horses. The biggest was a nodular one about 5cm diameter, two were balls that I banded and then treated the root, ten maybe were occult,  four were like warts about 1cm across. I've just done a double one close to an eye, which was worrying, but it's  healed with less scarring than Liverpool cream, as all the others did too. The copper sulphate leaves a nasty raw hole, but it heals well with aloe on it.  On the dry ones, you need to put the copper sulphate in cream or oil to make it stick, and apply for a few days until the sarcoid comes off. Copper sulphate can be bought as a plant fungus treatment in garden centres. Several vets have seen the result and they seem not to believe their eyes when I explain how it's done.


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## Bojingles (25 February 2015)

xTrooperx said:



			Those sarcoids look just like my mares, I have left them as seem ok at mo, but I know needs treating but looking at the cream the pictures look scary and seems to make things look worse. How long does the treatment take? And rough cost of the liverpool cream treatment.
		
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I think it all depends on the type of sarcoid and the depth of its root. The occult ones have been easy - they just went hard and came off and didn't cause her any pain at all. It's taken 4 months in total but that was mainly because of the wound left under her armpit. The total cost would depend on whether the vet comes out to you or you go to them. My bill's about a grand now but that included several visits and surgical removal. I would urge you to get treatment (or at least a vet's opinion) sooner rather than later though, as the bigger they get the more gruesome any treatment will be, and they can proliferate over summer because of transmission by flies.


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## Bojingles (25 February 2015)

Deleted duplicate


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## kayhoyle (24 April 2015)

please can someone advise me!! I have always believed they wouldn't use Liverpool cream near the eye??. But my mare has a sarcoid by her eye and a sarcoid on the inside of her hind leg and the vet is suggesting treating both at home, with Liverpool cream. ??? Opinions on this... It is not a big sarcoid and not particularly raised although is definitely growing significantly more recently.. For anyone who has had sarcoids treated with Liverpool cream, how successful has it been and is the horse able to be treated 'Normal ish' whilst undergoing treatment.. The vet said light exercise and I presume turnout of the flies aren't bad, fly mask etc?? Opinions and advice would be really appreciated!! Thanks in advance


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## rara007 (24 April 2015)

Sounds like it's best to treat before it becomes too troublesome! Ours was rested but it was under where tack went.


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## Regandal (24 April 2015)

ycbm said:



			Over a number of years I've taken about twenty off a total of six different horses. The biggest was a nodular one about 5cm diameter, two were balls that I banded and then treated the root, ten maybe were occult,  four were like warts about 1cm across. I've just done a double one close to an eye, which was worrying, but it's  healed with less scarring than Liverpool cream, as all the others did too. The copper sulphate leaves a nasty raw hole, but it heals well with aloe on it.  On the dry ones, you need to put the copper sulphate in cream or oil to make it stick, and apply for a few days until the sarcoid comes off. Copper sulphate can be bought as a plant fungus treatment in garden centres. Several vets have seen the result and they seem not to believe their eyes when I explain how it's done.
		
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That is fascinating!  How did you find out about that treatment?


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## Lottiedots (24 April 2015)

Carrots&Mints said:



			My boy has one on his willy and some on his belly, the vets coming out next month to take photos to send to Proffesor Sarcoid at liverpool but on our yard we have one that reacted really badly to the LP cream and has since got in excess of 70 sarcoids, and due to the liverpool cream has become really badly behaved, she had the vet up and he said the best thing they can do is PTS due to the sheer amount of sarcoids... hence Im really reluctant to use LP cream! Especially on a really sensitive area! However I have heard that lasering them off has a really good success rate (I think 80% - dont quote me on that though) so going to try and persuade the vet to go down that route  we dont live far from a practise that can do the laser operation, its just hell have to go under for it!
		
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I've just had one lasered off my horses sheath and it was very straight forward. The vet  said the Liverpool cream can cause behavioural issues and my horse is so sweet natured it would have been a shame to spoil that. He has been left with quite a large hole which is  healing over and he is fab about me cleaning it and applying fly cream etc, that was my choice and I'm pleased I went that way.


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## ycbm (24 April 2015)

8



Regandal said:



			That is fascinating!  How did you find out about that treatment?
		
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I mistook a sarcoid growing on a bite wound for proud flesh. Apparently, if a horse has the virus, any open wound can start growing sarcoid. Because I had previously been taught by a vet to use copper or ferrous sulphate on proud flesh, I used it. It was only when the hole disappeared completely that I realised that it had been something growing in the wound, and not the wound itself. So I did some research and realised that it had been a sarcoid. That was in 2001. Since then, I've bought a number of horses with sarcoids, and since they are a vet failure, and a risk, I have taken every one of them off.  My current horse has had dozens. I've taken at least thirty of various sizes off his belly, two off his face near his eye (pictures are in the other sarcoid thread running in Vet section at the moment)  and I'm in the middle of removing a patch of occult stuff from his inner thigh. I bought him with multiple sarcoids, so this was not unexpected. 

Please don't try this unless you are prepared to create bloody open wounds to ensure all the virus is dead. Annoying them but failing to kill them is a recipe for disaster. I can't, of course, take any responsibility for how things work out, I can only say that it works for me, time and again on multiple horses. And if you are out of insurance or at your wits end, I'm happy to try to help if anyone pms me.

Pictures on here:

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?696850-Sarcoids-Young-gelding


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## Regandal (24 April 2015)

Thank you.  Does the horse eventually become immune?


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## ycbm (24 April 2015)

Regandal said:



			Thank you.  Does the horse eventually become immune?
		
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I think it depends on the horse..  I've never had one regrow or any pop up anywhere else except on this latest horse. But he came to me with a dozen of them in a ring around his umbilical cord. It's my belief that he was infected through his umbilical cord before he had a proper immune system. I know he was then badly managed because he also came to me very thin and covered in ringworm, all over his body. I don't think he ever had a chance to get a decent immune system going. He's been well cared for for one year now, and I'm hopeful that he will be strong enough to stop any more developing, but I'm not holding my breath.  I'll just take them off as they appear. I'm just grateful to have him, I could never have justified paying what he was worth if he hadn't had them, and he's a lovely horse.


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## katherine1975 (12 May 2015)

Hi OP. How is your horse doing? I hope the wound is healing well. I had the vet out today, we are going to send pictures to Liverpool. So I guess we will be going down the same route as you &#55357;&#56851; fingers crossed it works.


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## katherine1975 (12 May 2015)

Thank you for your post and pictures of your experiences.


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## Bojingles (13 May 2015)

katherine1975 said:



			Hi OP. How is your horse doing? I hope the wound is healing well. I had the vet out today, we are going to send pictures to Liverpool. So I guess we will be going down the same route as you &#55357;&#56851; fingers crossed it works.
		
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Well, it's not going well to be honest. The wound always get to a certain point, looks like it's healing really well and then will split open again. Since my last post she's probably had two more surgeries on it, to cut away proud flesh. We had to give up on the box rest as we suspected the lack of movement wasn't helping and also to preserve her sanity. It's been 7 months now and I'm not sure where we're going to go from here. Another vet from the same practice came out to cast a fresh eye on it, and she, like the original vet, is baffled. It's very, very unusual for it not to have healed in all this time. We've tried everything from silver spray, manuka honey, stitching to vulketan gel. Because the situation is so unusual the vet suspected she could have Cushings so ran a test but she didn't. She also did a full blood screen and everything came back normal. So we're totally stumped. I think the next step will be to take another biopsy to see if there's some sarcoid tissue left. Good luck with your horse katherine1975. It hasn't all been bad with mine by the way; the occult sarcoids just went hard and fell off leaving no wound


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## katherine1975 (13 May 2015)

Bojingles - I'm sorry to hear that your horse is not healing well. I have sent my photographs to the vet today. The vet suggested that I could use bloodroot ointment and apply it myself. I'm really unsure what to do but will wait to hear back from Liverpool.


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## katherine1975 (13 May 2015)

This is how her sarcoid looks at the moment, it is in her armpit.


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## ycbm (24 May 2015)

I need to update the information I put on this thread about treating sarcoids with copper sulphate. I had never had a failure until I used it on a horse I bought with multiple sarcoids on his belly and face and a history of seeding new ones. I posted pictures of his face completely healed. It had been healed for months. Then I took him to a three day camp and he was very stressed by being away from home even though I took his friend as well.. 

Within two weeks of getting home, he had popped out three new ones on his belly, a new one in a completely new area in front of his girth, and then his face scar went red, and after treatment some of the scar tissue came off to reveal the sarcoid growing again underneath.

Unfortunately, it's well known in these horses with multiples that they can flare up any time the horse is stressed, which is why people so often think a vet has missed one on vetting a new horse, because the change of home causes stress and away they go. They seem to appear overnight.

So, getting to the point, I still believe that I get at least as good a result from copper sulphate as Liverpool cream, but I can no longer claim that I have never had one regrow.

I don't regret buying this horse for one moment, he's wonderful, but it's looking like I'm in for a lifelong battle to keep the darned things under control 

To reassure people, he is under the supervision of a vet who says I am doing as well as he can.


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## HelenS (24 May 2015)

ycbm said:



			I need to update the information I put on this thread about treating sarcoids with copper sulphate. I had never had a failure until I used it on a horse I bought with multiple sarcoids on his belly and face and a history of seeding new ones. I posted pictures of his face completely healed. It had been healed for months. Then I took him to a three day camp and he was very stressed by being away from home even though I took his friend as well.. 

Within two weeks of getting home, he had popped out three new ones on his belly, a new one in a completely new area in front of his girth, and then his face scar went red, and after treatment some of the scar tissue came off to reveal the sarcoid growing again underneath.

Unfortunately, it's well known in these horses with multiples that they can flare up any time the horse is stressed, which is why people so often think a vet has missed one on vetting a new horse, because the change of home causes stress and away they go. They seem to appear overnight.

So, getting to the point, I still believe that I get at least as good a result from copper sulphate as Liverpool cream, but I can no longer claim that I have never had one regrow.

I don't regret buying this horse for one moment, he's wonderful, but it's looking like I'm in for a lifelong battle to keep the darned things under control 

To reassure people, he is under the supervision of a vet who says I am doing as well as he can.
		
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Oh sorry.... you have had such good success to date as well. Thanks for updating us all.

I just wish someone would find a fool-proof cure for them....they are the bane of my life, and my poor gelding's.


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## Bojingles (27 May 2015)

Quick update on Bella. Since she's been out 24/7, the wound has been healing better, but it's still there. As the inflammation from various surgeries has subsided, I have a horrible feeling that one of the margins is a new, occult sarcoid. It has that flat, hard, grey appearance. I'll get the vet out and let you know. Best of luck to everyone battling them!


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## Bojingles (27 May 2015)

katherine1975 said:










This is how her sarcoid looks at the moment, it is in her armpit.
		
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Katherine, that looks nasty. Have you heard from Leahurst yet?


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## ycbm (27 May 2015)

Bojingles said:



			Quick update on Bella. Since she's been out 24/7, the wound has been healing better, but it's still there. As the inflammation from various surgeries has subsided, I have a horrible feeling that one of the margins is a new, occult sarcoid. It has that flat, hard, grey appearance. I'll get the vet out and let you know. Best of luck to everyone battling them!
		
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Oh I do hope not, but get onto it quickly if it is before it gets a hold and spreads. I've got all my boy's new ones out now, his face is just shedding the dead stuff and it's not very deep.  Now it's fingers crossed as they heal.

Good luck with yours.

Today I read about a herpes virus based treatment which is effective against skin cancer in humans, so I hope that approach will also work I horses.


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## katherine1975 (28 May 2015)

Hi Bojingles. I am still waiting to hear from Leahurst. I wish they would hurry up!


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## katherine1975 (9 June 2015)

I have just spoken to the vet. Treatment should be starting next week when he has the cream. She will need 3 applications 48 hours apart & last one 72 hours after that. Hope it works!


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## eggs (10 June 2015)

One of my horses is due is 5th treatment of Liverpool Cream tomorrow.  Fortunately it does not seem to bother him and my vet who is very keen to sedate has been happy to apply the cream without sedation.  My biggest concern is that there has been so little swelling or reaction that it may not be working.


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## katherine1975 (17 June 2015)

Saffy had her first lot of cream applied today. She will have more applied on Thursday, Saturday & Tuesday.


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## Buddy'sMum (26 August 2015)

My 4-year old has a small (about 3mm) nodular sarcoid on his inner thigh, very close to his femoral artery. Treatment with Liverpool cream starts next week, Leahurst have recommended three treatments. 
I'm worried about flies but think we'd best treat it asap while it's tiny than risk it growing or spreading if we wait another month or two, particularly as it appeared pretty much overnight.
Anyone used the cream for a nodular sarcoid close to a blood vessel? How much bleeding is likely? How long does it take for the sarcoid to fall off?


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