# French giant lop help



## budley95 (28 September 2016)

My partners aunt has become quite unwell so Sunday night we found ourselves the proud owners of 2 French Giant Lops. They're almost 6 months old and came from the same litter. The breeder told her they'd be fine together as 2 boys because of this. 

Trouble is Diablo (bigger one of the 2) this morning started trying to do the naughty with Albert on their morning run in the kitchen. Albert wasn't happy about this and when he tried to run away Diablo started to nip him. I've separated them for today whilst I'm at work as I don't want any injuries. 

I've been told this is just them trying to establish who's the dominant one in their new home, I thought they were the same as guinea pigs and males shouldn't be kept together? However my experience with rabbits stretches to 1 in the back garden when I was 5 who got eaten by a fox a couple of years later... 

Is there any way I can stop this? Am I better getting them neutered? Can you do this and would it help? Any other advice for a clueless bunny owner would be helpful!


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## js1006 (28 September 2016)

Morning, and welcome to the world of rabbit owning!
As a start, Rabbits United is a great place to get loads of information and advice on keeping bunnies.

I'd always get my rabbits neutered, unless the vet suggests otherwise.  This reduces hormonal behaviour and makes making and keeping bonds easier.  It sounds like they are started to get a bit teenage, which can be a difficult time for keeping the peace. 

Rabbits should always live in pairs or groups as they are very social animals, since you have separated them whilst you're out are they able to see or smell each other still?  Once bonded you should try and avoid splitting them up as this can disrupt the bond and make things worse when they are re-united.  

I'd suggest you look into getting them neutered as soon as possible, preferably at the same time. They are old enough so provided the vet is happy with their health there should be no issues with that.  In the meantime you will have to see how bad the humping and nipping is when they are together, i.e. is the bond still intact? 
If they are not breaking skin or stopping the weaker one eating/drinking then you could consider keeping them together until the neuter, then they can recover together too.  
If you are concerned about injury then separating them into a place where they can see or at least smell each other but not reach each other is best. Then once neutered you can bond them again, in a neutral space.

Hope that helps a bit!


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## budley95 (28 September 2016)

Thank you! 

Yes they can still see each other and smell each other. They have a double cage, so Albert's been put in the top and Diablo in the bottom with the wire type cover over the hole instead of their ramp. Diablo keeps sitting in their bowl and taking the treats away from Albert, but in the same breath sits there grooming him. Albert has a bit of a bald bit on the back of his neck which I presume is from Diablo being mean, but Diablo also has one so I don't know if that's normal? Albert's a wuss that just runs away and when they're out to run likes to hop over and sit by me and follow me about the kitchen, so I doubt he'd even stick up for himself with Diablo.

I was going to register them with the vets at lunch today so I'll get them booked in for neutering.


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## js1006 (28 September 2016)

It sounds like they're being perfectly normal and grooming is a good sign.  I have two pairs, of which none will share tasty food. Snatching out of each other's mouths is considered perfectly acceptable!
Just keep an eye on the bald patches, it is moulting season so this could be making things look worse than they are.


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## budley95 (28 September 2016)

Phew! Thank you. That's really useful advice. I've booked them in for mid-October for neutering. 

I'll try and keep them together again. I feel bad separating them now but I didn't want either of them to get hurt whilst I'm at work and be left for a few hours in pain. 

I'm presuming adlib hay for rabbits is right? And Rabbit Royale and readigrass is OK along with a few greenies, but not too many carrots and gnawing toys, blocks and balls are right? They're bedded on shredded paper and have a litter tray as well. They get a groom every night as well. They have 2 bottles of water in their cage as well. 

I feel like such a novice!!!


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## js1006 (28 September 2016)

We all have to start somewhere, my first rabbit was a gift having never had anything other than cats before...
You shouldn't feel bad about separating them, it was the safest option.  It also sounds like it would be a suitable temporary set up if necessary until they are neutered, just make sure they get enough space and time out of the hutch, its amazing how active rabbits are.

Adlib hay is correct, if feeding rabbit royale (i.e. muesli not pellets) make sure they are finishing all the different types and not just the tastiest ones.  Readigrass is good too, and veggies. Anything new should be introduced slowly over about 10 days.  Rabbits are pretty similar to horses with regards to feeding, they need constant access to forage, not too much hard feed and low sugar.  They are also experts in pretending they are always starving - if they have adlib hay you don't need to worry about this. You can always condition score like you would a horse if you're concerned.
Shredded people is ideal, normally they are pretty good at being litter trained though this is the difficult stage as they are hormonal so don't worry if they are being a bit messy right now.

Best of luck with it all, they'll have you wound round their paws in no time!


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## GirlFriday (21 October 2016)

I've known a pair of giant males (different breed but also from the same litter) live together for life unneutered. They both got jiggy with the other on occasion (sometimes, but rarely to the extent of wet backs, never afaik penetrative, but it wasn't 'just' a dominance thing). Really was the nicest possible set up for them.

I've also tried the same experiment with some smaller cross breeds and had one basically chase the other down and keep attacking it whilst it hid its head in a corner. Can't remember the age but still young, and if I recall correctly, the other had previously been most frequently on top until that point. They were separated but lived happily in adjacent cages, able to touch through bars.

Rabbits don't have the best outcomes from sedation so if you can avoid neutering do but do keep an eye out if you haven't already had them snipped just in case things don't go well as they mature.


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## Zero00000 (22 October 2016)

If you want them to stay together, neutering is definitely the way to go, it is not a stead fast way that they will stay together though, and always be prepared incase you do need to break the bond, I myself have experienced what 2 intact male rabbits can do to each other when hormones kick in, fine for months and overnight tear shreds out of each other!

I also have had over 50 rabbits neutered/spayed and only ever had 1 fall Ill following op and it may have been completely unrelated as he was handed over to us and neutered a week later, we knew no history. 

Rabbits are an absolute joy to own, but there are lots of nasties they can catch, so do some research on them, 
With the way things are at the moment in the bunny world, I highly recommend having them both vaccinated for vhd1, vhd2 and myxi (although the myxi jab does not stop them contrating it, but lessons the effect and gives a higher chance of recovery) help try and protect against these horrid diseases that are rife at the moment.

As with horses, they must have access to forage at all times, most of their diet should be hay, and also feed a good pellet and fruit veg in small amounts.

They are delicate little things and not the easy pet most think they are, find yourself a rabbit savvy vet, not all vets are clued up on them, as someone else suggested, rabbit united forum can help lots with advise and locating a good vet.

Rabbits also litter train &#128513;

My inbox is always open if you need any advise too.

Enjoy them &#128513; Oh and photos &#128513;


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## Zero00000 (22 October 2016)

Oh water bottles, for my big rabb's we get the 1lt bottles, the nibs are bigger so they have plenty of water (unless you give a bowl of course)


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