# Flash Noseband Vs Drop Noseband...



## Passage... (15 September 2010)

After reading the various positive comments on HHO for drop nosebands - for those that have tried and tested both flash and drops (and prefer drops) what benefits have you seen from using the latter? particulary in dressage/flatwork terms!


----------



## ihatework (15 September 2010)

I'm prbably not the best to comment because for virtually all my horses for as long as I can remember they have gone best in loose cavessons.

However my current horse I just wasn't getting a good connection with in a cavesson so decided to temporarily try a different noseband. Opted for a drop, given I am pretty anti-flash, and he was terrible, hated it! Opened mouth, tilted head, bleugh! Then tried a flash but done up pretty loosly and voila. Not sure why a loose flash worked/helped more than a drop but it did.


----------



## Fiona (15 September 2010)

Just that my mare seems happier in it.  She goes best in a cavesson, but will stick tongue out pccasionally which does not go down well with dressage judges, and adding a flash strap makes her go totally rigid in the mouth.  A not too tight drop stops her giving her tongue an airing but still remains nice and soft.

I think with a flash its the top strap being tight they they don't like.  Unfortunately if its loose the noseband slides down their face.

Fiona


----------



## kerilli (15 September 2010)

i usually use a drop with a full cheek or fulmer snaffle, the two go together perfectly, the cheeks of the bit hold the chin strap of the noseband in place, so it doesn't have to be tight. with a loose ring or eggbutt, if it's loose, it can slide up the bit rings. 
i find that a lot of horses prefer a drop, but it really is trial and error.


----------



## cobface (15 September 2010)

Just taken my girls drop noseband off and gone back to the plain cavesson.  Only hacked so far but *touches wood* shes hasnt been shaking her head and tilting since i have swopped back.


----------



## alwaysbroke (15 September 2010)

Have changed two of ours to drops recently (having talked to Kerilli about them), and find the horses are much happier. The mare has always been unsettled in her mouth, doesn't matter which bit, or cavesson or flash nose band, she just seems happier and lighter in the drop. The other lad came to us very curled back in a very 'fixed' outline, it has taken months to encourage him to take the contact forward and release his neck muscles. He needed something to encourage him to keep his mouth shut when turning, but a flash, even very loose made him curl up more. He is more relaxed in the drop, which is not done up very tightly and is much more will to work from his back end and relax the front


----------



## MissTyc (15 September 2010)

Mine are broken in/brought on in drop nosebands and I never change them *shrug* They go well, always. They are fine in a cavesson for showing, but I prefer the sit of the drop (i.e. no pressure on the back molars - I have pretty fat headed horses so this can be an issue). They go fine without any noseband at all once they're broken in, so I like to think the drop sits in a comfortable location, comes into play only when its needed and thus they never get into bad habits nor start to resist it.


----------



## redcascade (15 September 2010)

My boy opens his mouth and leans on your hands, we tried a flash which he hated and he so we decided to try a drop. We both love it and he's a lot more relaxed through his neck and can't lean on me anymore. Am so thankful that I thought of it really  I use mine with a hanging-cheek snaffle.


----------



## Abbeygale (15 September 2010)

I haven't used anything other than a plain cavesson for quite a long time on my horses, but I had the need for something more with my boy - hopefully just temporarily.  So far he does seem to be happier in the flash than the drop - but I may well give the drop another chance before I side line it completely.  

The only reservation I have about the drop, is that I am not 100% happy with the fit of it on him, while I can happily fit a flash noseband on him.  I would hate to be using the drop on him and be causing him problems unnecessarily.


----------



## D66 (15 September 2010)

When you pull back on a dropped noseband the horses breathing is restricted, the horse can release the pressure itself by tucking in its head. A flash doesn't have this effect.  They can both keep the horses mouth shut and make it harder 
to put its tongue over the bit. It depends what your horse will tolerate, or what tricks it gets up to!


----------



## TarrSteps (15 September 2010)

digger66 said:



			When you pull back on a dropped noseband the horses breathing is restricted, the horse can release the pressure itself by tucking in its head.
		
Click to expand...

Adjusted correctly, that's not how the noseband works at all!  It should rest on the bony process at the end of the nasal bone, not below that on the soft part of the nose.  It certainly doesn't make the horse "tuck in its head", in fact often it's easier to stretch the horse's neck in a drop than in a flash.  Also, since the rein is not attached to the noseband, it doesn't pull back or tighten the loop, which would be required to restrict breathing.  I do agree, adjusted incorrectly and/or used with an overly hard hand which makes it impossible for the horse to relax its jaw, it would be potentially damaging, but then that's not correct use!  It might be possible that a drop on some horses restricts the ability of the nasal passages to expand fully, but that's not the same as "restricting breathing" at a normal level as a way of getting the horse to assume some particular shape.  (Which is not the goal anyway . .  )

There seem to be two reasons some horses prefer it.  One, the already mentioned lack of pressure on the molars.  This can be a HUGE deal for young horses with caps and older horses that perhaps don't last particularly well between floatings.  Also, for the same mechanical reason, it can let horse soften its jaw and let the teeth "slide" over each other, which is essential component of softening at the poll.  I think Sustainable Dressage or some similar site has a series of drawings demonstrating how that works.

Two qualifiers, though.  One, some horses don't like the lower nose piece.  And, personally, I find it very hard to fit some horses with the readily available range of sizes.  This can mean if people just go with whatever they've got, it's not always in the right place.  I have one with buckles either side of the nose and a wider leather strap, which fits a wider range comfortably.

I'm more of a "no noseband" person myself (I have my reasons  ) but drops work very well for what they're for and I'd say some sort of non-cavesson is almost necessary for some schools of riding as they are part of a larger system.  That said, as above, some horses like a flash (although I hate that they are now "default" so end up on lots of horses in situations where no one has thought their use through) so it's courses for horses.  And again, some horses like a grackle which is often a better "all around" design for eventers and other horses doing fast work.


----------



## MillionDollar (15 September 2010)

Different horses go better in different nosebands, my guy is definitely better in a flash, but is ok in a drop. On my yard the drop has been a miracle noseband for some horses, and the same goes for just changing them into a loose caversson.


----------



## seabsicuit2 (15 September 2010)

Personally I've never really understood the hype over drop nosebands- may have just been my horses but its never seemed to fit any of them very well. Always seemed to sit in an uncomfortable place and seemed to rub/sit badly against the bit. Plus I dont like the way drops tighten up right over the nasal passages. Maybe my horses have just had unusual shaped heads! I've always preferred just a loose cavasson or a grackle.


----------



## kerilli (15 September 2010)

digger66 said:



			When you pull back on a dropped noseband the horses breathing is restricted, the horse can release the pressure itself by tucking in its head. A flash doesn't have this effect.  They can both keep the horses mouth shut and make it harder 
to put its tongue over the bit. It depends what your horse will tolerate, or what tricks it gets up to!
		
Click to expand...

Sorry, but that is totally untrue.
A correctly fitted drop noseband (sitting 4 fingers' width above the top of the nostril, i.e. the width of the back of a flat biggish hand) will not affect the horse's breathing at all. It should not be done up tightly either, i always allow 1-2 fingers' width in the strap under the horse's jaw.
it has nothing to do with the horse putting its tongue over the bit imho, the height of the bit affects that.
the lack of pressure on the sides of the horse's head where the molars are is, imho, a huge factor in the drop's acceptance by so many horses.
oh, i should add, a LOT of drops in this country are a truly rubbish size. I had one made-to-measure and it took the saddler 3 attempts to get it nearly right, in spite of me giving accurate measurements and showing him the one I wanted him to copy! i have about 5 different drop nosebands now, they're a bit of a passion of mine. the ones that are adjustable on each side are nice, fwiw, if you can find one. otherwise, imho UK cob size fits most full size heads, for some reason...


----------



## ofcourseyoucan (15 September 2010)

a well fitted drop noseband should NOT interfere with the breathing. (no noseband should interfere with breathing IF fitted correctly) sadly the drop went out of fashion as the flash came in, but it can work wonders on a horse. but sadly there are so many people riding in badly fitted tack, and who also succumb to the fashions!


----------



## Pidgeon (15 September 2010)

Have got Pidge in a myler comfort snaffle (fulmer) and have tried flash, cavesson - not brilliant brakes , flash again and then drop noseband. Pidge is so much more settled in his flatwork with the drop and is less inclined to be yobby. Did try a mexican grackle for a week but now back in the drop and have a happy boy. Do everything in it, flatwork, hacking, jumping and XC.


----------



## Tnavas (23 July 2017)

kerilli said:



			i usually use a drop with a full cheek or fulmer snaffle, the two go together perfectly, the cheeks of the bit hold the chin strap of the noseband in place, so it doesn't have to be tight. with a loose ring or eggbutt, if it's loose, it can slide up the bit rings. 
i find that a lot of horses prefer a drop, but it really is trial and error.
		
Click to expand...

*So glad that there are others out there that use this combination - straight out of the Spanish Riding School, I was taught this by Robert Hall who once worked at The Spanish Riding School - I break all mine in this combination and they have all transitioned to a plain snaffle and Cavesson. Every TB I've reschooled off the track as gone well in a Fulmer and Drop, I also only use a single jointed bit*



D66 said:



			When you pull back on a dropped noseband the horses breathing is restricted, the horse can release the pressure itself by tucking in its head. A flash doesn't have this effect.  They can both keep the horses mouth shut and make it harder 
to put its tongue over the bit. It depends what your horse will tolerate, or what tricks it gets up to!
		
Click to expand...

*
Correctly fitted - up on the nasal bone the drop does not affect the horses breathing at all. *



Pidgeon said:



			Have got Pidge in a myler comfort snaffle (fulmer) and have tried flash, cavesson - not brilliant brakes , flash again and then drop noseband. Pidge is so much more settled in his flatwork with the drop and is less inclined to be yobby. Did try a mexican grackle for a week but now back in the drop and have a happy boy. Do everything in it, flatwork, hacking, jumping and XC.
		
Click to expand...

*It's not advisable to use a cheeked bit with a Cavesson or a Flash as the cheek tips can get under the top noseband and can cause steering and brake problems.

A drop is the correct noseband to use with a cheeked bit - the cheeks keep the lower part of the noseband in the correct place. Without the cheeks to keep the lower strap in place the lower strap can slide across the bit rings*


----------



## criso (23 July 2017)

I have a couple that don't like cavessons, no matter how loosely done up.  So it's not the flash that's the issue as the cavesson itself.  One happy in a drop, other in a micklem.

I'm also old enough to have been taught that flashes were an attempti to combine a drop and a cavesson where you needed to attach a standing martingale and have a drop so I've always thought of it as a compromise.  

There was some research done a while back on nosebands and drops and grackles came out well.  I'll see if I can find it

Can't find the original research on my mobile but the summary of the results is on this page http://www.fairfaxsaddles.com/bridles/bridle-testing-and-design


----------

