# What to do if you find a stolen horse



## the watcher (15 December 2009)

It seems to me, in light of recent events, that this post is long overdue.

Before addressing the matter of the horse it is important to understand the processes that have to take place in the background.

*Identification* 

A critical point in any case regarding any property is the matter of identification. It wouldn't matter if you have hours of video footage of your horse, or the opinion of a vet. Criminal law requires a case to be proved beyond all reasonable doubt, to this end horses must be microchipped or freezemarked or there must be a sample kept of at least 30 good quality plucked hairs (it is the follicles that are needed). In some rare events there may be continuity in possession that will generally support a claim that this is a stolen horse (loan horses for example) 

*Who do I tell?* 
The Police Force where the theft was originally reported. They have all the initial information and are well able to coordinate a response with the force covering the area where the horse has been found

*What do I do* 
Make a note of exactly where the horse is, and of any vehicles that may be parked nearby if you can do this  *without drawing attention to yourself* . If you challenge the people who have the horse you will create a crisis and a short timeframe for action. If you show interest in the horse it may simply be moved and disappear again.

Call the Police, as above

*Why does the Police response seem slow* 
Ideally several things need to happen. The original report needs to be retrieved, this may not be recent and could have been archived. It needs to be considered then whether there is enough detail in the original report to progress to seizing the horse and arresting anybody found with it. They may need to take further statements.

Once a person is arrested for an offence there is quite a short time frame before they must be charged or released. Officers will be reluctant to arrest if they know that they will have to release somebody almost straight away, possibly never to be seen again

It may be that the horse is in an area or with people who may put up violent resistance. Few Police forces can come up with the required number of officers to do this safely immediately and and would wish to plan and brief any recovery attempt, as well as possibly wanting time to obtain a warrant to do so.

*To summarise* 
If you see what you believe to be a stolen horse discreetly take all the details you can and report it to the correct authority, do nothing else to alert the people in possession of the horse. Remember that the person who has it now could be an innocent purchaser.


----------



## Changes (15 December 2009)

Very informative post. Thank you.  
	
	
		
		
	


	





What a shame that it is necessary...........


----------



## The_snoopster (15 December 2009)

Out of curiosity what would you do if after you have been to the police and they then:-

Send an officer out to the location of the stolen horse without a photo of the stolen horse or details of it.?

Police officer states that they would not know one end of an horse to another so cannot age an horse so agree with the people who have the horse that this horse is not the the stolen one ?

Police officer looks at passport and is not in the name of people holding the suspected stolen horse although they claim to have bred the horse and its been in the family since birth, and never once questioned why then was it not in their name?

I really think the attending officer should of done their homework on passport rules and have taken out someone with horse experience to identify the horse.
While we all understood that the police are under exstreme pressure to attend a multitude of calls, the passport laws are being ignored and the police have no idea of these laws, and actually called the passport "vetinary papers"
So i guess unless the attending officer as a understanding about the equine world the horse will stay stolen, unless as with the case you are talking about on another post the person who spotted the stolen horse spends another two hours at the police station and insists that they look at the two photo.s of the stolen horse and the horses photograph that she had taken of the horse she had found, because it was only then that she got any action.
This i must had was not the first time she had shown these photo,s to the police , it was only the determination she had that as got this horse hopefully back to it,s rightful owner but as someone has stated on here she should of ignored the horse and walked away, which i can assure you she will do now in the future.


----------



## Cuffey (15 December 2009)

Snoopysue
You are right in that Police Officers do not understand horse passports unless they own a horse or are part of the Horsewatch system as the whole passport fiasco was landed on Trading Standards to regulate.
How many people do not get passports updated when they purchase a horse?
So it does become very important that a briefing takes place before property is entered and having the passport does not mean you have ownership of the horse.

Perhaps this whole scenario needs thinking through by UK Horsewatch alongside the Police and a plan of action prepared

Even though I have had my horses for many years, the passports are in my name--I doubt I could prove ownership in a court of law as I have no receipts from their purchase.
Must go and pull some mane hair!


----------



## ester (15 December 2009)

snoopysue, out of interest of how this all worked was that the original police force that the horse was reported stolen to as motherhen suggests or the local police force?


----------



## ladyt25 (15 December 2009)

I think if the police showed more interest and were more helpful in the first place it would be a start. This is my main gripe with police. They far too often say "It's not a piolice matter". Well, what IS then?? If a stolen horse/stolen property isn't a police matter then what is?

Sure I have no doubt they get many calls a day but a bit bette general 'customer service' and conformity to their 'pledge' they keep harping on about wouldn't go amiss.

Seems to me, I could get fined or end up in court for eating an apple in my car/throwing the core out the window but I can steal a horse and nothing will be done!

On the evidence they appear to have been given on this case I think they should have acted quicker. If it was MY horse and I had come across it I would have gone in and got it myself. I don't believe many people in the same situation wouldn't. It's human instinct I'm afraid and I would want my horse back whatever it took. 

It's disgusting that Pixi has suffered as a result of doing the right thing and no doubt the perpertrators will get away with waht they've done (same old story we hear over and over again!).

I 'found' a stolen horse through a post on this site - it was recovered pretty quickly by all accounts by an officer who deals (I think) specifically with stolen horse cases. Funnily enough though no travellers were involved in that case so the police were brave enough to get involved!


----------



## M_G (15 December 2009)

Thank you for that Mother Hen thats the most useful post in a long time on here


----------



## the watcher (15 December 2009)

snoopysue, I don't know if the most recent event is likely to lead to any kind of prosecution so it would be unwise to discuss the finer points of that case on a public forum.

However my view is that if the local Police attended without all the information from the originating force they went in too soon and ill equipped, not doubt being put under pressure by outside individuals to Do Something Now. Given time they could have found somebody with a knowledge of horses and passports. Even if a horse is recovered it is this kind of poor preparation that will lead to failed prosecutions or even having to give the horse back.


----------



## MurphysMinder (15 December 2009)

Thanks so much for that mother hen, a really useful post.  Hopefully admin will sticky it.


----------



## Tharg (15 December 2009)

What is the best way to store the sample of horse hair with the follicles attached?


----------



## the watcher (15 December 2009)

clean UV resistant tubes or packaging. They can be stored at room temp.

I would only use this as a last resort though, storing a sample of your horse's DNA will not lend anything to attempts to locate and recover it, it may simply be a confirmation of ID once the horse is found. If you do not use freezemarks or microchips it is extremely unlikely you would ever be aware that your horse has been found.

the Animal Health Labs used to do DNA analysis and comparison, not sure if they still do and I see some challenges in asking a Police SOCO to obtain samples for a comparison!

Saving plucked hairs is something you could do, it costs you nothing but the benefits are not extensive.


----------



## _HP_ (15 December 2009)

Very useful post MH...thankyou. Maybe admin could sticky it?


----------



## PeterNatt (15 December 2009)

The key to identifying a stolen horse is that it is both freezemarked and micro-chipped.  If people fail to do this then the chance of identfying the horse is dramatically reduced.  Anyone can see and read a freezemark.


----------



## PcDavies (16 December 2009)

I would just like to balance this out a bit.

The horse that LadyT refers to was recovered to it's owner after a very short time once we could identify the location.  What I would add is that the horse was freezemarked &amp; this made identification &amp; therefore the recovery very easy.

I owe that success to LadyT &amp; although I have dealt with several equine cases, I am just a normal response PC.  

Some officers need more training regards horses and I would be the first to hold my hands up and say I know a great deal about horses, but know nothing about motorbikes.  Thankfully I have never had to deal with stolen motorbikes yet - I wouldn't have a clue what make / model / engine size etc &amp; without a registration plate I would be useless.  I dare say the same is true of other officers who have to deal with horses that aren't freezemarked or chipped.
To make it simple for the officer trying to locate and recover a horse, please freezemark - as PN says anyone can read one.


----------



## KarynK (17 December 2009)

DNA profiling in this way is very sensitive so storing your horses hair in this way is unlikely to get a favourable result should the worst happen.  It is unlikely that the police will pay to have your hair sample developed.

The best plan is to microchip or freezebrand the horse and if you horse is a registered animal then contact the society and have a DNA profile completed through them, they usually have a discount negotiated with a lab and you will have the DNA on a file.

If not then £30 will get your profile done by a lab, Avion Biotech in the UK provide this service but you have to contact them for bags and instructions prior to pulling the hair.  This is the only certain way to identify an animal positively as microchips can be removed and freezebrands disguised or altered.


----------



## mighty (22 December 2009)

we have had our horses 5 of them stolen from belgium last year the 27 th of december
We have found back 4 and now maybe 5 we have had one horse" back the other ones  we cannot gat back, they have all had new english passeports with our chipnumbers, we have up to 30.000 pound lawyer fees up to nown and not getting anywhere
We have put the horses on the internet all over the world,  but still the got new passeports, what the hell is happening ?
We have asked bills of purchase by court and the thieves just do not show them, t is unbelievable.
WHAT ARE CHIPNUMBERS FOR? A LOAD OF RUBBISH we have the proof of our ver that he has chipped the horses and still we dont get anywhere, somebody can give me an idea cause we are desparate


----------



## jb4 (26 December 2009)

The trouble is that over here in England you can still get passports at the sales on the day of the sales ! Also the trading standards do not have scanners to check microchips,And none of the Auctions check for microchips at sales anyway ! Its terrible,My heart goes out to you.


----------



## exracerfan (9 June 2010)

I have a friend who bought a horse several years ago from a very dodgy dealer.  His chip when scanned gives the number of a horse who is apparently living in Ireland.  (My friends horse is in Derbyshire!)  She has been upset because she cannot trace the horses history, but its details are very similair to the one in Ireland!  So she has a horse which no one can say who he is or what he is.  A total mystery to the vets and passport agencies.


----------



## thinlizzy (9 June 2010)

And no one seems to regulate passports/chips maybe one governing body should do it and new passport should be excessive if say the horse is over a certain age and id produced to the governing body of owner ,ideally driving licence passport  etc maybe HORSE AND HOUND might start a campaign would be fabulours pr.Feed back hh?


----------



## pixi (9 June 2010)

look the other way leave it wher it is dont waste your money ringing the owner trying to convinse her its her horse and dont bother telling the police as its got no vin tag .and last off all dont expect a thank you or kiss my ass when the owner gets it back.this is only talkin from past experiences .but this is what ill do next time.


----------



## brighteyes (10 June 2010)

I don't think the owner wants to return the horse, just find some history!


----------



## aduffield (10 June 2010)

Freeze marking and micro chipping has got to be the way forward, but micro chipping needs to be better controlled with a central data base for retrieval of information. If police find a chipped horse they have to trawl through lots of companies to get the info, at least with freeze marking they only have 2 to choose from. Also if a freeze marked horse is taken  and seen in a field police can enter to inspect it because they can see the mark and that gives them reason to enter. With a micro chip it's invisible so has to be scanned for but it's better than nothing. I can't understand people who don't have one or the other as it seems to be common sense to do the utmost to protect your property from theft.


----------

