# Should we buy another one?



## ArthursMam (29 February 2016)

Apologies if this is posted in the wrong forum. I wondered if anyone would be able to provide me with a little advice. 

We've recently purchased out first horse just before Christmas. He's an Irish Draught, 17hh, massive in every way. We had a few teething problems. He's 10, very aware of his size and strength and pushed his luck during the initial few weeks. Bolted a few times and generally frightened the living daylights out of me. 

On the ground he's a gentleman. And in fairness, when riding he is almost always 100%. He will pass anything on the road even heavy construction vehicles and is a very gentle boy. 

We've learned what he likes and what he doesn't. He doesn't like sheep, silent cyclists, cars following him too close from behind or bridges with water underneath. We've worked hard to get him past these things as much as we can but when he does spook he does a good job of it and can unseat you completely. 

A friend has been joining me to ride and when he has a friend to hack with he's much better behaved. He continues to spook but not so dramatically and calms quickly. The horse we hack out with is completely bonkers but still seems to help keep my horse calm. 

I've never hacked out alone since the initial teething problems and living quite remotely. My husband walks alongside us. Call me silly but it gives me confidence. 

At the weekend I returned the favour to my inexperienced husband. I walked alongside him Saturday and he was perfect. On Sunday I walked alongside him and he was a complete dream, then spooked at a chainsaw. My husband initially brought him back, then the chainsaw restarted and he bolted. Galloped a main road. The husband bailed out but fell into concrete and has fractured his hip, pelvis and pubic remi. 

Not the best day! 

(The horse is fine) 

So, going forward....... Would a second horse help or am I just setting myself up for more work and no benefit. He seems to hack better with a friend but I'm aware the friend would have to be the perfect horse (if they exist).

I love my horse. And I would never sell him even if he becomes a field ornament. I'm sure he'd be quite happy with that. He currently shares a field with two donkeys who he loves dearly. 

I'm not in to competitions. I'm a happy hacker. I'm too old for anything else! any advice would be most gratefully received . 

Kelly x


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## Merlod (29 February 2016)

Are you really set on keeping him? He doesn't sound like the horse for you, and youve not owned him long so you don't really owe him anything, doesnt sound a bad horse but would thrive with a more confident rider and more work. You could sell him and buy something more suitable for yourself and your husband?


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## Arzada (29 February 2016)

Gosh  - your story has scared me stiff. The small percentage of time when he isn't almost 100% includes bolting several times, scaring you and serious injury to your husband. I hope I don't upset you when I say that the question I would ask is 'should we buy a different horse?'


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## LHIS (29 February 2016)

I'm sorry but he doesn't sound like the horse for you OP. He's a lot of horse, and for something that bolts (and injure your husband as you found out recently) and knows his own strength - he just sounds like too much.  There are so many wonderful safe horses out there, I wouldn't waste my time on something that scared me.

ETA - if you definitely won't sell, then instead of buying another use the money and get some professional help to iron out his issues and make him a safer mount for you and your husband.


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## be positive (29 February 2016)

i would seriously consider selling him, although it sounds as if he is a nice enough horse he may well be too green, too lacking in confidence for an inexperienced hacking home, no horse is going to be totally bombproof and certainly not when ridden by a very inexperienced person but they should not be constantly taking off whenever they get worried by something out of the ordinary, they should be trained to stand and wait if asked not tank off. 

If you are determined to keep him then rather than invest in another why not spend some money getting him schooled, and some lessons for yourself, so he becomes the horse you want, it may not work out but if he is a genuinely nice horse he can be improved with some help from an experienced trainer, you may only want to hack but it is much more fun hacking a well trained obedient horse than one that takes off regularly.


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## Ellen Durow (29 February 2016)

ArthursMam said:



			Apologies if this is posted in the wrong forum. I wondered if anyone would be able to provide me with a little advice. 

We've recently purchased out first horse just before Christmas. He's an Irish Draught, 17hh, massive in every way. We had a few teething problems. He's 10, very aware of his size and strength and pushed his luck during the initial few weeks. Bolted a few times and generally frightened the living daylights out of me. 

On the ground he's a gentleman. And in fairness, when riding he is almost always 100%. He will pass anything on the road even heavy construction vehicles and is a very gentle boy. 

We've learned what he likes and what he doesn't. He doesn't like sheep, silent cyclists, cars following him too close from behind or bridges with water underneath. We've worked hard to get him past these things as much as we can but when he does spook he does a good job of it and can unseat you completely. 

A friend has been joining me to ride and when he has a friend to hack with he's much better behaved. He continues to spook but not so dramatically and calms quickly. The horse we hack out with is completely bonkers but still seems to help keep my horse calm. 

I've never hacked out alone since the initial teething problems and living quite remotely. My husband walks alongside us. Call me silly but it gives me confidence. 

At the weekend I returned the favour to my inexperienced husband. I walked alongside him Saturday and he was perfect. On Sunday I walked alongside him and he was a complete dream, then spooked at a chainsaw. My husband initially brought him back, then the chainsaw restarted and he bolted. Galloped a main road. The husband bailed out but fell into concrete and has fractured his hip, pelvis and pubic remi. 

Not the best day! 

(The horse is fine) 

So, going forward....... Would a second horse help or am I just setting myself up for more work and no benefit. He seems to hack better with a friend but I'm aware the friend would have to be the perfect horse (if they exist).

I love my horse. And I would never sell him even if he becomes a field ornament. I'm sure he'd be quite happy with that. He currently shares a field with two donkeys who he loves dearly. 

I'm not in to competitions. I'm a happy hacker. I'm too old for anything else! any advice would be most gratefully received . 

Kelly x
		
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I can't tell you, categorically, what you should and shouldn't do. However, personally, I wouldn't invest in second horse until you have sorted out your relationship with this one. You haven't had him long enough to establish a trusting relationship which works both ways. Three or four months isn't really long enough for you both to get to know and trust one another and if you are nervous when riding even if it's sub-conscious and you aren't aware of it, it will communicate to your horse. Remember, horses take their lead from us and if they think you may be a bit worried they are likely to think there is something really threatening and follow their instincts as flight animals. It's a case of "If that noise is frightening the boss, I'd better be terrified and get us out of here before it eats us both".

A second horse makes for a lot of work and with your husband out of action it will be very hard for you. If the second horse is for him he needs to be back on his feet and to have got over any post-accident jitters and nerves before he should be considering hacking out on a new horse. It also sounds as though he would benefit from a few lessons before you buy a second one for him.

Irish Draughts are (usually!) incredible sensible, kind and intelligent horses and make wonderful partners with us humans. I love mine dearly and he's looked after me for nearly 20 years but even he would be a bit fazed by the chainsaw incident! In stressful horse-related situations I find it very useful to hum - it slows down your breathing and most horses like the sound of it especially if you hum when you are both in the stable and they are used to hearing it in safe situations. My Grandfather who worked with horses all his life, passed the humming hint down through the family. He said it was invaluable in the battlefields of WW1! 

Hope your husband is improving and good luck with forming a relationship with your horse.

(Incidentally, I speak from 60+ years experience with horses and I'm still learning.)


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## Jazzy B (29 February 2016)

OP I sorry but he doesn't sound like the right horse for you and your husband.  I had a 17.1  that frightened the life out of me!  He eventually got me off on the concrete in front of a car.  Possibly the most frightening experience of my life.  Anyway, I downsized and have the most honest chap now and it's fun again!  After all isn't that what it's meant to be?


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## Leo Walker (29 February 2016)

Do you keep him on his own?


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## ArthursMam (29 February 2016)

Thank you everyone. 
Although I'm very grateful for what I know is perfect advice..... Replacing him isn't an option for me. 
Call me stupid but I've always been the one that's rehomed the bankers animal no one wanted and I can't give up on him yet. 
He's such a gentle boy generally, he just gets scared and runs. 
I know how dangerous that is but I have to try and see it from his point of view. He's come from living in remote countryside to living next to a dual carriageway. 
We have lovely riding around us but we have to cross roads to get to it and he's been an absolute superstar through that. 
The husband is ok. In pain obviously and gutted he fell. He blames himself which we all know he shouldn't. 
He thinks the horse misheard "whoa" for "go!"

I wonder if a new horse would be a last ditch attempt to get him confident? I know nothing is bombproof but as close to it as possible. 

The fact of the matter is, if he bolts, my two legs aren't quick enough to catch him. Would he get confidence from another sound horse? 

Kelly x


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## ArthursMam (29 February 2016)

He lives with two donkeys x


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## LHIS (29 February 2016)

ArthursMam said:



			Thank you everyone. 
Although I'm very grateful for what I know is perfect advice..... Replacing him isn't an option for me. 
Call me stupid but I've always been the one that's rehomed the bankers animal no one wanted and I can't give up on him yet. 
He's such a gentle boy generally, he just gets scared and runs. 
I know how dangerous that is but I have to try and see it from his point of view. He's come from living in remote countryside to living next to a dual carriageway. 
We have lovely riding around us but we have to cross roads to get to it and he's been an absolute superstar through that. 
The husband is ok. In pain obviously and gutted he fell. He blames himself which we all know he shouldn't. 
He thinks the horse misheard "whoa" for "go!"

I wonder if a new horse would be a last ditch attempt to get him confident? I know nothing is bombproof but as close to it as possible. 

The fact of the matter is, if he bolts, my two legs aren't quick enough to catch him. Would he get confidence from another sound horse? 

Kelly x
		
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He can and should learn to take confidence from his rider (if he needs it).  If you won't sell then I strongly suggest getting help from a professional who can teach him to not be flighty when he's worried.  I'd also have lessons on him yourself and get your confidence up.  Work on building a bond with him - it takes at least 6 months I think, and needs work regularly - I personally find ground work great for this.  Walking him out in hand might help too - get him used to the sights and sounds of your area without being on him.  Long line him around the lanes if you can (though get the tanking off under control first!).  Good luck.


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## be positive (29 February 2016)

ArthursMam said:



			Thank you everyone. 
Although I'm very grateful for what I know is perfect advice..... Replacing him isn't an option for me. 
Call me stupid but I've always been the one that's rehomed the bankers animal no one wanted and I can't give up on him yet. 
He's such a gentle boy generally, he just gets scared and runs. 
I know how dangerous that is but I have to try and see it from his point of view. He's come from living in remote countryside to living next to a dual carriageway. 
We have lovely riding around us but we have to cross roads to get to it and he's been an absolute superstar through that. 
The husband is ok. In pain obviously and gutted he fell. He blames himself which we all know he shouldn't. 
He thinks the horse misheard "whoa" for "go!"

I wonder if a new horse would be a last ditch attempt to get him confident? I know nothing is bombproof but as close to it as possible. 

The fact of the matter is, if he bolts, my two legs aren't quick enough to catch him. Would he get confidence from another sound horse? 

Kelly x
		
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Even in remote countryside there is plenty to scare a horse, if they have been properly educated they will not run away from something new, you are making excuses for him, his previous training and while life may be different in many ways it is not normal for horses to run away whenever they are scared, get some help rather than another horse, there is no guarantee another horse will be any better and if the rider is not quick enough you could end up with 2 running away and 2 broken riders.


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## ArthursMam (29 February 2016)

Thank you. 
That sounds much more positive and a plan we can work with. 
Once the husband is fixed we'll get him some lessons and in the meantime I'll get some and start walking him around in hand whenever I can. I'll scrap the idea of a second horse for now. We ideally wanted a second for the Summer months anyway but I'll definitely take your advice and sort this one out first. 
I don't expect him to settle in the short time he's been here, and I know he's a s**t head tanking off, and I know I'm making excuses. But he was more of a s**t head 8 weeks ago..... He is improving! X


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## zigzag (29 February 2016)

ArthursMam said:



			Thank you everyone. 
Although I'm very grateful for what I know is perfect advice..... Replacing him isn't an option for me. 
Call me stupid but I've always been the one that's rehomed the bankers animal no one wanted and I can't give up on him yet. 
He's such a gentle boy generally, he just gets scared and runs. 
I know how dangerous that is but I have to try and see it from his point of view. He's come from living in remote countryside to living next to a dual carriageway. 
We have lovely riding around us but we have to cross roads to get to it and he's been an absolute superstar through that. 
The husband is ok. In pain obviously and gutted he fell. He blames himself which we all know he shouldn't. 
He thinks the horse misheard "whoa" for "go!"

I wonder if a new horse would be a last ditch attempt to get him confident? I know nothing is bombproof but as close to it as possible. 

The fact of the matter is, if he bolts, my two legs aren't quick enough to catch him. Would he get confidence from another sound horse? 

Kelly x
		
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So you won't sell him even though he is unsuitable, what are you going to do when he bolts and maybe causes an accident to another person eg a pedestrian or a person in a car?


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## respectedpony driver (29 February 2016)

What bad luck.Just a suggestion,If you think he will be better hacking out with company how about walking the Donkeys out with him.


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## WandaMare (29 February 2016)

My horse is a different horse with company, she's not dangerous alone but she has her moments. She becomes a novice ride when she's out with another, even if the other one is fizzy, she doesn't pick up on it. It is more natural for them to venture around with company.


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## OWLIE185 (29 February 2016)

This horse is not a first horse.
He is completely dangerous and I would get rid of him as soon as possible as you are clearly over-horsed.
Get yourself an older established and quiet laid back bombproof spook-proof horse which you can happily and safely hack out by itself and in company and which will not un-seat you.
You can not afford to have another accident.  Life is too precious.


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## Pearlsasinger (29 February 2016)

He certainly doesn't sound like a first horse! You have been given excellent advice about building your own confidence and skills which should help but if you do go down the route of getting a 2nd horse, you absolutely MUST find a "totally bombproof" one. They do exist. When I viewed my current riding horse, I tried her on a busy A road, she completely ignored motorcycle s, buses and a huge sheep transporter. As a 2 yr old my cob walked in hand through the middle of a small town on a busy Saturday afternoon without spooking at anything. Please take time to find a horse which is not going to run off with you, consider an older ride and drive.  Your horse would probably be more relaxed if he were kept with another horse.


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## _OC_ (29 February 2016)

ArthursMam said:



			I'm a happy hacker. I'm too old for anything else!
		
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;And there lies the answer , you just want a happy hacker and quite clearly he is not......sell him on you cannot have a horse that size galloping the high ways....as the others have said you could both end up badly injured and next time it could involve an innocent  road user.I feel for you, but kinder to sell him on and let someone take him on that can deal with a horse of his size and let you buy one that is more suited for the job you want it to do.


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## AdorableAlice (29 February 2016)

Sounds like  the irish thug, too smart for his own benefit  has sussed you out OP.  The first six months or so of ownership invariably has a period of pushing the boundaries.

There is nothing wrong in wanting to keep him, but your husband is going to take a lot of mending and I would be surprised if he wants to get on board again, he will also be worried about you getting on an ignorant oik.  In your position I would be wanting to find a good yard who would have the horse in boot camp and ask them to work the horse and give you an honest opinion of the horse.

They may well find nothing wrong with the horse but it still does not mean he will be suitable for your needs. He  could simply be a horse that needs lots of work and two days hunting a week.  At 10 he is in his prime, do you know how he is bred ?

If you can outline where you are based someone on here will know of yards that specialise in naughty horses.


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## meesha (29 February 2016)

Don't feel you have to keep him and risk further injury, he just may need a different job.  Hunting for instance would mean he was always with others.  It may be that he has never hacked alone before, he may even be better suited to a competition home.  Nothing to lose advertising him honestly and seeing if you can find someone you are happy to have him.

Cross posted with Adorable Alice!!!!!


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## showjumpingharry (29 February 2016)

Although I can't tell you what to do, I would advise you to either get an experienced person to help you or to sell him and by you and your husband something more suitable. Would it help to take the donkeys along in hand? If he lives with them, then he is likely to trust them.


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## WelshD (29 February 2016)

If you are set on keeping him then I would throw a bit of money at the situation, either send him off for some intensive hacking and despooking or get someone to come to you

Micky Gavin is great with this sort of thing, he is based in the East midlands and has a healthy respect for 'happy hackers' and their needs, its natural horsemanship methods with a good dose of common sense and he gets the owners involved in any training


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## ShadowHunter (29 February 2016)

Echo the others, send him for some school & hacking by a professional. All horses test their boundaries in a new home but he's taking the pee. What was he like when you tried him?


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## ArthursMam (29 February 2016)

I'm based in South Wales, near abergavenny. Ideally I'd prefer someone who can come to us rather than ship him off to another yard. We had an experienced rider at first come and ride a couple of times a week. He tried his luck with her also but gave up when he realised she was stronger than him. Unfortunately that didn't work out for long. He was only going out for 10 minutes and the rider was unreliable. 

I appreciate your answers but selling him really isn't an option. I'm inexperienced and stupid I admit that but I'm not giving up yet. 

I can also understand your concern of him harming us or a bystander but blame it on the lack of sleep and worry at the moment but I'm not finding that helpful. 

Walking the donkeys with him may also be an option. He loves them both x


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## Jingleballs (29 February 2016)

OP you say he's your first horse - how long have you and your husband been riding for? I feel as though too much blame is being put on the horse. He's in a completely new environment and needs time to adapt and to be perfectly honest my steady cob that I've owned for almost 10 years would crap himself if we encountered a chainsaw BUT we've got a bond and I know we'd work through it.

Clicker training might be a really good way to build up both your confidence and your bond!


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## be positive (29 February 2016)

Jingleballs said:



			OP you say he's your first horse - how long have you and your husband been riding for? I feel as though too much blame is being put on the horse. He's in a completely new environment and needs time to adapt and to be perfectly honest my steady cob that I've owned for almost 10 years would crap himself if we encountered a chainsaw BUT we've got a bond and I know we'd work through it.

Clicker training might be a really good way to build up both your confidence and your bond!
		
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I don't think anyone is to "blame", the horse is not suited to the current job and riders, by getting a pro involved they will be able to help both horse and rider, if the horse really was a novice ride he would not be so overreactive in a new environment, he needs work to desensitise him which the OP is not experienced enough to do alone. 

Walking the donkeys may help but they still require someone experienced to hold them and ensure they will be confident about meeting new things and not just join in with the horse, there is plenty that can be done but it needs to be productive, there have been good suggestions and some not so, the idea of the OP long reining when she probably has never done so and we have no idea whether the horse has, is a potential recipe for disaster, if he takes off with 2 reins behind him he is even more likely to hurt someone, the horse doesn't deserve to be written off but there is a lot of work ahead.


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## sarahw123 (29 February 2016)

zigzag said:



			So you won't sell him even though he is unsuitable, what are you going to do when he bolts and maybe causes an accident to another person eg a pedestrian or a person in a car?
		
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This.
I know many probably won't agree, but you choose to get on this horse and hack on public roads, knowing he can be uncontrollable at times. What WOULD you do should he cause an accident in which someone was killed or seriously hurt?
He is not a first horse. You said you are a happy hacker...he isn't.

ETA I echo getting a pro in to help


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## Jingleballs (29 February 2016)

be positive said:



			I don't think anyone is to "blame", the horse is not suited to the current job and riders, by getting a pro involved they will be able to help both horse and rider, if the horse really was a novice ride he would not be so overreactive in a new environment, he needs work to desensitise him which the OP is not experienced enough to do alone.
		
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I still disagree - what ever happened to letting a horse settle - when I moved to my current yard my horse was unsettled, became very attached to the herd and in one incident he barged out his stable, down a long drive and along a road to get back to the field. He was also unsettled on his first solo hacks. So we took it slow and within a couple of weeks I had my bombproof hack back.

Horses are not machines - they are allowed to show fear and it seems that at the moment the rider isn't sure how to cope but that doesn't mean with a bit of time things will settle.

No offence to you op but I've also seen novice riders describing their horse as having bolted when they've done no such thing - it's just felt that way.  Is your husband balanced enough to cope with a napping horse? That may have contributed to the situation and getting some lessons in an arena to improve balance could help. Apologies if that's not the case - I'm just going on the limited info available. I do hope he recovers quickly though!


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## ArthursMam (29 February 2016)

No offence taken at all Jigleballs, I appreciate your advice and that you're on the horses side. 

My husband wouldn't have been balanced enough. He's only ever ridden at hacking centres on school masters and this was only his 5th time on our horse. 

This is my first horse but I'm not completely new to riding. I rode almost every day between the ages of 10 and 24 ish and have now returned at 33 having had s complete break. I'm very rusty but not completely incompetent if that makes sense?


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## be positive (29 February 2016)

Jingleballs said:



			I still disagree - what ever happened to letting a horse settle - when I moved to my current yard my horse was unsettled, became very attached to the herd and in one incident he barged out his stable, down a long drive and along a road to get back to the field. He was also unsettled on his first solo hacks. So we took it slow and within a couple of weeks I had my bombproof hack back.

Horses are not machines - they are allowed to show fear and it seems that at the moment the rider isn't sure how to cope but that doesn't mean with a bit of time things will settle.

No offence to you op but I've also seen novice riders describing their horse as having bolted when they've done no such thing - it's just felt that way.  Is your husband balanced enough to cope with a napping horse? That may have contributed to the situation and getting some lessons in an arena to improve balance could help. Apologies if that's not the case - I'm just going on the limited info available. I do hope he recovers quickly though!
		
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I have had many horses through my yard over the years, most settle in quickly if they are genuinely experienced in life and novice rides, there are always a few minor issues which need addressing which is why I think getting help will for the OP be the best step forward, the OP is inexperienced is trying to cope with a big possibly ignorant horse, I agree it is probably not bolting but even tanking off is not acceptable. Why not get some help from an experienced person rather than continue alone, there is no shame in getting help and it will give the horse a chance to come right.

They are not machines but should not take flight whenever they get scared, the flight instinct needs to be controlled, a novice is not going to have the tools to deal with a horse whose first instinct is to run away, which is why some training for horse and rider is required, we all need help sometimes.


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## ArthursMam (29 February 2016)

I'm willing to try anything that may resolve the issues we have x

Riding lessons
Someone experienced to sort him out
Clicker training/humming
Spend time with him to bond
Walk him out with or without his donkey friends 

I'll do it all, and so will the husband once he's meant. He's all for keeping the horse, selling isn't an option to either of us x


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## meesha (29 February 2016)

As well as lessons it may be worth getting instructor to ride out with you on his/her horse.  Also get instructor to ride him out (if they are prepared to take the risk) so they know first hand what he is doing.


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## be positive (29 February 2016)

ArthursMam said:



			I'm willing to try anything that may resolve the issues we have x

Riding lessons
Someone experienced to sort him out
Clicker training/humming
Spend time with him to bond
Walk him out with or without his donkey friends 

I'll do it all, and so will the husband once he's meant. He's all for keeping the horse, selling isn't an option to either of us x
		
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That sounds like a good plan, get someone you trust involved, work towards having fun in the future and staying safe, or at least reduce the risks.


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## SatansLittleHelper (29 February 2016)

My first reaction to your situation would be to sell him to a more suitable home and get something more appropriate for you. However I also understand how difficult even thinking of doing that can be. I sold the love of my life horse last August after a long time of trying and really coming to terms with the fact that I had well and truly bitten off more than I could chew. 
If you are able to give the situation an awful lot of thought from an emotionally detached stand point you will be able to make an honest choice.
If you are determined to keep him then getting professional help is a must. 
Good luck in whatever you decide,  I really hope things improve.


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## mperson01 (29 February 2016)

From what you've said, it sounds as though you are at home rather than a yard. Could you advertise for an experienced person with their own horse to livery with you.  Instead of paying for stabling, they help you with your horse. That way you have some help, some one else to talk to, and someone experienced to hack out with.


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## Kacey88 (29 February 2016)

It makes more sense to sell him, obviously. But here, you're not the first to put up with an unsuitable horse and you definitely won't be the last! There are three months until summer, give it all you've got with a pro on side, maybe go to livery for a while if it makes it easier (sounds like you are "home alone" - never easy when you're a bit nervous). If by the summer time you've made no progress and not enjoying him get something suitable. It's likely he will have settled a bit with you by then. If not, why would you want to keep him?


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## PeterNatt (29 February 2016)

I am sorry but at 10 years old this horse should either be totally safe for a novice to hack out and if not is unlikely to become so however much training he is given he clearly does not have the right temperament for your purposes.


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## mle22 (29 February 2016)

Sorry but to me this is craziness- the horse is not suitable for you op - your husband has been seriously injured. Sell the horse to someone else who can manage him and buy yourselves a quiet plod. Why would you keep him!


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## twiggy2 (1 March 2016)

ArthursMam said:



			I'm based in South Wales, near abergavenny. Ideally I'd prefer someone who can come to us rather than ship him off to another yard. We had an experienced rider at first come and ride a couple of times a week. He tried his luck with her also but gave up when he realised she was stronger than him. Unfortunately that didn't work out for long. He was only going out for 10 minutes and the rider was unreliable.
		
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she wont have been stronger than him, I agree with others that letting the horse go to a new home may well be the best and safest option but we have all at some point allowed our heart rather than our head rule a situation, if you are set on keeping him then sending him to a good quiet rider so he can be worked every day for 4 weeks and then you going and riding him there under supervision for a few weeks may just iron out your problems, many riders are unable to commit to travelling to ride a horse every day over a longer period of time due to other work. I know a few people in my area who offer this sort of service and sometimes they will tack up and ride for ten or fifteen minutes 3 times per day ecause they feel it is best for the horse. If he is a true bolter when stressed then personally I class them as not suitable for riding but if the previous rider could stop him then he was running off rather than boltig, botling is a fear response and they run blind nothing stops them. Bolters are also not 'trying their luck'
Have you spoken to the preious owners? they may have some ideas.
Coming from the coutry you would expect him to be ok(ish) with things like chain saws rather than traffic too.
I hope your husband recovers well-remember to through his hat out and cut the chin strap off, also invest in body protectors. Keep safe


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## zigzag (1 March 2016)

Why isn't it an option to sell him?


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## Palindrome (1 March 2016)

Lots of lessons for you, if you find a good dressage instructor it could help you control him. I would also invest in a nice deep dressage saddle with big blocks (or western with bucking rolls or Australian stock saddle depending on your preferences and what you can find that fits him) and body protector and/or air jacket to boost your confidence.  
Been there out of riding school and buying an unsuitable first horse. I nearly sold her when I realised I wasn't good enough to ride her but an awesome dressage instructor (rode and trained to GP) sorted us. There is hope OP but you need to learn to ride the horse. Also look up the one rein stop (basically give one rein and use the other one to bring horse's head to the girth, this desengages the hindquarters and prevent them from taking off).


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## ArthursMam (1 March 2016)

twiggy2 said:



			I know a few people in my area who offer this sort of service and sometimes they will tack up and ride for ten or fifteen minutes 3 times per day ecause they feel it is best for the horse.
		
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In this case it was more like paying the person well for an hour, being told he was going for an hour and watching on the CCTV (out of curiosity of how my horse was whilst at work) that he went to the end of the road and back. A 15 minute visit which included catching, tacking up, trotting 200 yards up the road and back in the field. 
I'd be happy if this was in best interest of the horse but not when it was claimed to be something it wasn't. 




zigzag said:



			Why isn't it an option to sell him?
		
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Because I love him. Simple as. 
With respect, your sharpness isn't helpful.
I appreciate that your obviously a very experienced horse person and you know your stuff, and I admit that I'm new to this and probably in your eyes a lunatic, but I'm here for advice, not to be made to feel even worse than I do. If that's even possible at the moment. 



Palindrome said:



			Lots of lessons for you, if you find a good dressage instructor it could help you control him. I would also invest in a nice deep dressage saddle with big blocks (or western with bucking rolls or Australian stock saddle depending on your preferences and what you can find that fits him) and body protector and/or air jacket to boost your confidence.  
Been there out of riding school and buying an unsuitable first horse. I nearly sold her when I realised I wasn't good enough to ride her but an awesome dressage instructor (rode and trained to GP) sorted us. There is hope OP but you need to learn to ride the horse. Also look up the one rein stop (basically give one rein and use the other one to bring horse's head to the girth, this desengages the hindquarters and prevent them from taking off).
		
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Thank you very much. Your story boosted my confidence that we'll get there eventually. 

This isn't the horses fault. It's mine. I've returned to riding after a long break and have invested heavily in a horse that at the moment is too much for me. I hope that by improving myself then we'll have a long and happy life together.


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## Horsewithsocks (1 March 2016)

ArthursMam said:



			No offence taken at all Jigleballs, I appreciate your advice and that you're on the horses side. 

My husband wouldn't have been balanced enough. He's only ever ridden at hacking centres on school masters and this was only his 5th time on our horse. 

This is my first horse but I'm not completely new to riding. I rode almost every day between the ages of 10 and 24 ish and have now returned at 33 having had s complete break. I'm very rusty but not completely incompetent if that makes sense?
		
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Can you find a yard with a good trainer where he can stay for a couple of months - the staff could school him for you and you both could have lessons with the trainer?  This may be expensive but will probably save you accidents in future, you may be happy hackers but both you and the horse need the discipline of learning how to deal with him.


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## Micropony (1 March 2016)

Between you and your husband it does sound like you are a little over-horsed. Having been there myself, I understand what it's like.

I think you have two choices. One would be to sell him, and I know you say that's not an option, but you might want to think carefully and put emotion aside before dismissing it. If there's nothing medically wrong with the horse, he's in his prime, and could well find a lovely home and be someone else's much loved perfect horse. If he's tanking off and misbehaving, that could suggest he's not happy or settled, and if you find yourselves unable to address what's happening, his chances of finding a good home will diminish as time goes on. I know you feel people have been unkind suggesting that you shouldn't be taking him on the roads until you've got on top of things, but think about it: it's quite foreseeable that he could cause a serious traffic accident, with you or your husband on board or not, and honestly, how would you feel if that happened? I came too close to that once with my old horse, and really, the thought of what almost happened makes my blood run cold. That was the last time we ever hacked alone.

If you decide to keep him, it sounds as though you will need a lot of support for everyone to be safe. A really good, straight talking experienced instructor who will ride him to get him/keep him on the straight and narrow, lots of lessons for both of you, sounds as though you might need to consider livery so you have access to a school in order to be able to sort out yours and your husband's skills and relationship with the horse in a safe, enclosed environment, support around you and people with safe, steady horses to accompany you when you're ready to start hacking again.

It will not be cheap, you could well end up spending considerably more on sorting this out than you spent on the horse in the first place.

The other thing with being over horsed is that you might need to accept you will never be able to do certain things with this horse, whereas you would with something more suitable. For me, with my first horse (another big boy like yours) that meant we couldn't really jump, we couldn't safely hack alone, no sponsored rides or similar, and I had to dramatically scale back my aspirations (which tbh probably weren't very realistic to start with) about what we might achieve in the school. Now I was okay with that, he taught me masses and I wouldn't have changed a thing, but there probably aren't many people who would have taken the same view. And it did affect my confidence in my ability as a rider in ways that I am only now fully realising and coming through.

Whatever you decide to do, very best of luck, and I hope your husband is better soon


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## Goldenstar (1 March 2016)

I have two ID's and love the breed but a badly started ID is a dangerous thing .
I would without hesitation advise you to get rid this of this horse .
At ten it will be hard to turn him round .
If you keep him &#375;ou must never ever allow him to hack alone and I just don't think it reasonable to take a horse who bolts into public places and risk injury to people innocently going about the place .
They can be the gentlest boldest most sensible horses ever foaled but once spoilt they can be very dangerous .


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## Damnation (1 March 2016)

WelshD said:



			If you are set on keeping him then I would throw a bit of money at the situation, either send him off for some intensive hacking and despooking or get someone to come to you

Micky Gavin is great with this sort of thing, he is based in the East midlands and has a healthy respect for 'happy hackers' and their needs, its natural horsemanship methods with a good dose of common sense and he gets the owners involved in any training
		
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This.

I understand you want to keep the horse, we do get very attached to them! But I would second this reccomendation. Send the horse away for a month or so for some intensive hacking by a pro, get them to test him in every way, open spaces, alone, in company, at speed, at walk etc. Then before you take the horse back go and have lessons on him, learn to ride him, learn to suss out when he is going to do anything silly and learn to react to it before he realises what he wants to do!


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## Goldenstar (1 March 2016)

Are you sure he's physically ok especially his back .
I say this because I have know two horses who did this inappropriate spooking behaviour and both turned out to have very back backs.
It's like they go I am coping with the pain I am coping with the pain , but I can't  cope with and that chainsaw and flip .


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## MiJodsR2BlinkinTite (1 March 2016)

Oh dear, I'm going through an almost identical dilemma to the OP........... my cob is a 19 yo lunatic who's been just AWFUL to deal with this winter, and now my trusty friend who loves him to bits and rode him for me at weekends has just told me she really doesn't feel she can anymore because of his behaviour. I've had professional help with him in the past, i.e. someone coming to ride out with me and deal with the issues as they arise, and I heartily recommend this (that's the next step, to go back to the professional we've used in the past and see what we can achieve, but ultimately, if we cannot, then I'm seriously looking at the PTS option as I can't sell him, would struggle to loan him, and the rider he's had to sort him out has said no sorry she's lost her confidence to ride him and I don't have what it takes either). His issue is that my mare, who's ridden out with him and friend, is currently out of work, so he's had to hack solo, and is just not dealing with it, hence the behaviour - tanking (OK so only in walk, but he makes it very obvious that he COULD and would do it in trot/canter), spooking randomly, napping etc. I won't sell him, firstly because of his age and secondly because his behaviour is such that he'd soon be sent off to fill a dog tin. 

So I'm looking for another horse (mare) to hack out with him and friend, and also be a field companion for him as he's out on his own as well which isn't helping the general situation. Basically my mare probably won't come back into work, and I'm looking to get something younger where I could mebbe do TREC and/or endurance, but suspect that the whole upset of cobby not having his mare in the field and riding out with him, has unsettled him to quite a large degree and the behaviour is the evidence of it.

So understand your dilemma OP: agree with others that maybe this isn't the horse for you, but IF you're committed to keeping him then would suggest a thorough appraisal by a professional and/or remedial work as needed. Don't try to go it alone, you'll only lose your confidence and/or injure yourself, basically. The problem is that when horses like this get rude, it takes a helluva effort to get them right again, as cobs in particular know very well how to use their sheer weight and presence against you.


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## Sugar_and_Spice (1 March 2016)

If you've got your own land you've also got the opportunity to do some desensitizing work in the field. Once the weather is dryer and you can ride in there you can borrow people and stuff eg chainsaw, motorbike, log pile covered in flapping tarpaulin etc and introduce him to them initially switched off/still and then from a safe distance running/moving and gradually ride him closer as he becomes used to it. He might still spook at something unexpected on a hack but hopefully it'll be a smaller spook at the sudden surprise and not panic at the thing itself.


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## oldie48 (1 March 2016)

OP, my friend, who has ridden regularly for most of her life but TBH isn't the best rider you might see, has struggled with her ID for 8 years, he's now rising 10. He had her off twice last week and i won't bore you with the list of injuries she's sustained over the years. She, like you, blames herself for his bad behaviour and frankly she's right to do so, he needs a competent, confident owner who gives clear boundaries and deals with any issues that arise fairly but firmly. She's not that person. Seeing her hobbling around bruised and battered yet again I think I've finally persuaded her to sell him and find the happy hacker that she'd enjoy. She loves him and she's worried for his future because with each year he's become more difficult. TBH if he'd been in a suitable home he'd be fine. If you love your horse you owe it to him to find him a home where he will thrive and improve and frankly from what you have said, yours isn't right for him. I am sorry to be blunt but having the experience of watching a friend be injured on numerous occasions (and not having any fun) and having seen a perfectly good horse deteriorate because he's in the wrong home, I feel very strongly about it.


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## alliwantforchristmas (1 March 2016)

oh, ArthursMam, I really feel for you.  I'm all for sticking by a horse once you've got him, and I've got a few myself that I don't think many others would be bothered with ... but I think you have to be so careful here.  I've read some of your other posts, the ones about bits, and Arthur spinning and you falling on concrete ... and now your poor husband has had a bad injury.  Honestly, from the outside, this makes for very scary reading.  We may think we are doing the right thing, but there's no price can be put on our health and well-being.  Please do some research and send him to a good professional who can work with both you and the horse, and please don't let your heart rule your head.  If you have any doubts, and you truly can't bring yourself to sell him, then let him be a field ornament and love him for that, and get a totally bombproof hack for you and your husband (although it seems to me that finding these totally bombproof hacks is not that easy, as reading the ad for Arthur he was sold as suitable for a novice).  I also think that more lessons for you both would be really beneficial - ride different horses in different environments, and possibly even consider some simulator and lunge lessons for your position and stability.  Your husband will take time to recover from his injuries and need to rebuild strength and muscle tone as well, so maybe look at some of the 'on the ground' exercises to help him regain core strength and improve his stability.  I would also say that even when Arthur is back from the pros, you could do lots on the ground with him esp if you have your own ground ... with my lad I'm working on leading, and then long-lining over obstacles, as well as leading out in hand, and building out to long-lining out in the open - he hasn't done anything terrible at all though, I can just see he is genuinely worried and lacking confidence and want to help him build his confidence up in his new surroundings.  And it is improving our trust and relationship working this way.  All good luck for whatever you decide, but please stay safe and don't take risks.  I would also second the idea of a full body check to rule out pain, check teeth if they have not been already done - if he spooks and an unbalanced rider yanks him in the mouth, that could cause further problems if his mouth is not comfortable, and also back and saddle checks - again, the horse may cope with low level pain, but if something happens which causes a sudden movement or jerk the extra overload of pain could well be increasing his tendency to take flight.


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## madlady (1 March 2016)

OP you need some help 

In your situation I would look for someone who can come out and work with you on all aspects - groundwork and manners, long reining, riding - basically everything.  Some of the Kelly Marks books may also help - perfect manners and perfect partnership may have some good pointers for you but it would be much better if you had an experienced helper there with you.  Sending him away would probably help him but might not necessarily help you and the horse as a partnership.

It seems in some situations he is taking charge and that's clearly not acceptable - but that could be because he doesn't trust you - by example my younger mare can be a real mardy and would want to do a complete spin and run for home if she really didn't like something - but she doesn't.  She may not go past whatever the monster is at first but she will stand calmly until I reassure her and if she still won't go past then will stand nicely while I dismount, lead her past whatever the monster is, and then get back on.  The monsters are getting less and less all the time.  She is only a youngster however.  My older mare will go past pretty much anything but can still be upset by certain things and I'm sure at a chainsaw we would have had a spin round - she wouldn't however have even tried to tank off - she may have got a few steps but she would have then stood when asked.  However, if she had someone on board who wouldn't have been able to stop her tanking off would she have done - too damn right she would!  Yet with me she is a very safe hack and we go pretty much anywhere (apart from main roads in rush hour traffic although we have done that).

I'd also get everything checked to rule out pain - teeth, back, bloods and saddle are the obvious ones - did you have him vetted when you bought him?


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## Amirah (1 March 2016)

I'd get another one that you could both enjoy and that your husband can learn on. Totally sympathise with your not wanting to sell, good forever homes for horses are not exactly thick on the ground - but better him be a field ornament while you enjoy something safe than lose your nerve/get seriously hurt.


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## Meowy Catkin (1 March 2016)

Well I've thought long and hard about this. Please bear in mind that I come from a point of view of having had life changing injuries due to a horse riding accident. 

My blood ran cold when I read your first posts as I could sadly see the accident coming. I really hope that your husband makes a full recovery with no lasting issues.

If I was in your position and I was determined to keep this horse, I would retire it. Luckily you have your own land, so can do so with minimal cost. I would get him health checked, just to be sure that he doesn't have a back issue for example, just to make sure that he's comfortable and pain free. I used to have a retired racehorse who was a nanny for my youngsters and I got a huge amount of pleasure from looking after her, even though I never rode her, so in my eyes he would still have value despite never being ridden.

I would then have a good hard think about what was really needed in a riding horse given that your husband is a complete novice (the 'go' and 'woah' comment speaks volumes here) and that you have had a long break. Do you really need such a great big, powerful horse? I would rather have something chunkier and shorter if rider height or weight is an issue. Write down a list of 'must haves' and 'would be nices' that take into account where you are now, not where you will be in a year. Then stick to the 'must haves' when you search for a new horse. 

I managed to find one that hacks over motorway bridges, underpasses, heavy traffic, quiet lanes, open fields, alone or in company with a disabled rider. They are out there, but they do take some searching out.

I wish you lots of luck.


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## Annagain (1 March 2016)

Talk to Beccy Field at Triley Fields, If she can't help you she'll know someone who can.


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## Nakipa (1 March 2016)

We have a RID who is the most gorgeous loving person to handle on the ground and in the stable.  He loves fuss and kisses.
Once you get on him he turns into a horse exactly like yours  We have had him since he was three and bought him from his breeder in Ireland.
He is spooky, nappy, unpredictable, very sharp and he bolts with no chance of stopping him when he gets a fright.  
Both my husband and I have had several falls from him and my husband had a terrible fall out hacking which resulted in emergency surgery for his injuries.

As Oldie48 has described her friends ID ours is the same.  The problem was that we are reasonable riders but not nearly good enough for a sharp, spooky ID.  
We sent him away to a pro yard for reschooling where he did brilliantly but he tried the same things with them even once jumping out of the sand school.  They were able to deal with him appropriately and never had a repeat performance.
The people at the pro yard love him but we cant afford to keep him there so he is home and being a field ornament which stops my husband from buying a suitable horse for himself as we have neither room or money to feed another mouth.

Just a final word on the bolting.  The last time I hacked him, two years ago, all was going swimmingly when he suddenly stopped and looked across the fields.  Nothing to be seen, nothing to spook at, nothing to run away from.  Then he softened as though he was going to walk on.  I squeezed my leg to ask him to walk on when without any warning he spun and bolted.  I was ditched out the side door and landed heavily on my back breaking two ribs.  He galloped back along the track so fast that when he got to a bend he must have fallen heavily trying to get round so fast.  He destroyed the saddle and seriously injured himself in the process and we had to call the vet to treat his injuries.  Had I not have fallen off when he spun I reckon I would hve been gravely injured if not killed by his falling on me at that speed.  It makes me feel sick to think of it when I look back.  I am so glad I fell off.   He has never been hacked since as this was the 4th time he had bolted.

We love him dearly and would never sell him to an uncertain future.  We would loan him to a very competent competition home but for us who just wanted a happy hacker he is dangerous.

Don't get hurt again.  He sounds like an unsuitable horse.  It's sad but it happens.  Let him go to someone who an ride without worry and get yourselves something more appropriate.


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## moodymare_1993 (1 March 2016)

Faracat said:



			Well I've thought long and hard about this. Please bear in mind that I come from a point of view of having had life changing injuries due to a horse riding accident. 

My blood ran cold when I read your first posts as I could sadly see the accident coming. I really hope that your husband makes a full recovery with no lasting issues.

If I was in your position and I was determined to keep this horse, I would retire it. Luckily you have your own land, so can do so with minimal cost. I would get him health checked, just to be sure that he doesn't have a back issue for example, just to make sure that he's comfortable and pain free. I used to have a retired racehorse who was a nanny for my youngsters and I got a huge amount of pleasure from looking after her, even though I never rode her, so in my eyes he would still have value despite never being ridden.

I would then have a good hard think about what was really needed in a riding horse given that your husband is a complete novice (the 'go' and 'woah' comment speaks volumes here) and that you have had a long break. Do you really need such a great big, powerful horse? I would rather have something chunkier and shorter if rider height or weight is an issue. Write down a list of 'must haves' and 'would be nices' that take into account where you are now, not where you will be in a year. Then stick to the 'must haves' when you search for a new horse. 

I managed to find one that hacks over motorway bridges, underpasses, heavy traffic, quiet lanes, open fields, alone or in company with a disabled rider. They are out there, but they do take some searching out.

I wish you lots of luck.
		
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^^^^^^This!! You are too over horsed. Better to sell
Him now before you get too attatched. If you love him as much as you say, you will do what's best for him and you and sell him to a more Suitable home. Sorry if it's harsh but I too have had to make this decision over a year ago and had my mare for 3 years so I know it's difficult and you are probably feeling like you have let him down. But you haven't. 

The weight off your shoulders you will feel instantly tho. Life's too short to risk injury like what your husband has, and frankly i think he got off lightly bless him, it could have been much worse. We all take risks when getting on any horse but ATM your putting yourself knowingly at high risk with this horse, and as others have said, this horse is probably going to be very limited on what you can and can't do without pushing either of you outside your comfort zones depending on his nature. Horses are too expensive to not get as much as you possibly can out of them, and this is not the right horse for either of You. 
Everyone on here is thinking of you and your horses safety when they tell you to sell, sitting on the outside is much easier to distinguish between what you want to achieve and what is realistic to achieve. Hope this helps


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## ArthursMam (1 March 2016)

In my defence, I did set out to buy a bombproof horse. Obviously the full ad has disappeared offline now but I have the full description photographed (I'm just not sure how to add photographs if anyone can help)

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/clas.../epsom/162hh-10yo-id-type-gelding-473651.html

The full add is much more descriptive of how safe, sane and bombproof he is. That he was owned by a 70 year old man and that he's a safe hacker.

I am appreciative for all of your advice. I will take this all on board but I intend to fix myself first and work on our relationship before I just give up and sell up. 

You all know horses so much more than me and looking in from outside the box I can totally appreciate your views. But in the short time we've been together, I know my horse, I know how gentle he is and I know it will work out eventually.

K x


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## Goldenstar (1 March 2016)

ArthursMam said:



			In my defence, I did set out to buy a bombproof horse. Obviously the full ad has disappeared offline now but I have the full description photographed (I'm just not sure how to add photographs if anyone can help)

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/clas.../epsom/162hh-10yo-id-type-gelding-473651.html

The full add is much more descriptive of how safe, sane and bombproof he is. That he was owned by a 70 year old man and that he's a safe hacker.

I am appreciative for all of your advice. I will take this all on board but I intend to fix myself first and work on our relationship before I just give up and sell up. 

You all know horses so much more than me and looking in from outside the box I can totally appreciate your views. But in the short time we've been together, I know my horse, I know how gentle he is and I know it will work out eventually.

K x
		
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I do not wish to be unkind but you are being wholly unrealistic .
However gentle he is on the ground he's a dangerous horse when he's being ridden out .
And , and I don't say this lightly your judgement is lacking your novice OH should never have been on the horse in an open area it was a crazy and dangerous thing to do.
What investigations has the horse had to rule out pain as a trigger for his behaviour .


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## ester (1 March 2016)

I think that horse was sold by a forum user, because the pictures turned up on an american site too.


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## Leo Walker (1 March 2016)

Heres the original ad:

http://www.horsemart.co.uk/16-2hh-h...ype-gelding/Horses/437960#AYAvSmAXs3rxK4zd.97


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## ester (1 March 2016)

Ok, now I am confused, that was you selling him a month ago!? But now you can't?

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/archive/index.php/t-718959.html

Ah sorted, that h+h ad is more historical than that thread!


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## Leo Walker (1 March 2016)

Goldenstar said:



			I do not wish to be unkind but you are being wholly unrealistic .
However gentle he is on the ground he's a dangerous horse when he's being ridden out .
And , and I don't say this lightly your judgement is lacking your novice OH should never have been on the horse in an open area it was a crazy and dangerous thing to do.
What investigations has the horse had to rule out pain as a trigger for his behaviour .
		
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This! Your lucky your OH isnt dead or permanently disabled. And I say this as someone who is permanently disabled as the result of a stupid decision.


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## oldie48 (1 March 2016)

Well he won't be the first horse to have been miss sold nor will he be the last to test boundaries in a new home. He may well be a safe hack with an experienced rider and i know 70 year olds who still hunt, compete BE and will sit on pretty much anything. Actually the ad says "owned" by a 70 yr old, doesn't say ridden? If you are intent on keeping him, I sincerely hope you can get the professional help to straighten him out and keep him on the straight and narrow, but I don't think he'll ever be a horse that you'll trust completely. Most of us have been there, you know. I bought a lovely horse, he was great in company and lovely to handle but once moved to my yard with only my daughter's pony for company he became extremely nappy and developed separation anxiety. I struggled on for a while as I could usually ride in company, then he started to get tricky to get out of the field unless I took the pony as well. It was escalating so although I'd owned him for the best part of a year, I knew I didn't have the experience to sort him out.I sold to a someone who was going to keep him on a big professional yard. He was a changed horse, ridden by professionals during the week and unable to fixate on one other horse he turned the corner and his new owner had a lot of fun with him. When he went I felt as if a huge weight had been lifted from my shoulders! UOTE=ArthursMam;13192800]In my defence, I did set out to buy a bombproof horse. Obviously the full ad has disappeared offline now but I have the full description photographed (I'm just not sure how to add photographs if anyone can help)

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/clas.../epsom/162hh-10yo-id-type-gelding-473651.html

The full add is much more descriptive of how safe, sane and bombproof he is. That he was owned by a 70 year old man and that he's a safe hacker.

I am appreciative for all of your advice. I will take this all on board but I intend to fix myself first and work on our relationship before I just give up and sell up. 

You all know horses so much more than me and looking in from outside the box I can totally appreciate your views. But in the short time we've been together, I know my horse, I know how gentle he is and I know it will work out eventually.

K x[/QUOTE]


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## moodymare_1993 (1 March 2016)

Tbh I would contact the sellers and tell them what has been going on ( If they care to listen) they may care, they may not. But they also might be shocked to hear what you say about him and may take him back. That quite frankly is a lot of money to pay for something that is not suitable for your purpose. You have mentioned a few things that scream alarm bells about your knowledge, as goldenstar says, your OH shouldn't have been on him in that situation. What's next For Either of
You? A broken neck? Death? All this in the name of 2 month love. What happens if you both have an injury at the same time? Who will look after the horse then? You have to think of all eventualities. This is one of the things that helped me make the disunion of my unpredictable mare.


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## Archangel (1 March 2016)

Go back to the dealer (I see a few ads from that seller) and tell them what is going on.   I know that yard and presume it is someone renting a few boxes from WGH and doing a bit of dealing on the side.  The advert clearly says that the horse is safe and sane and suitable for a novice so I can see why you went for him but clearly he is not and I think you would have a very good case for refund.  

Hope your husband is OK, very nasty accident from an expensive horse suitable for a novice.  'Well hunted in Ireland for 4 years' could mean 'dragged off the bog and given a bath'.


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## EQUIDAE (1 March 2016)

The ad describes him as suitable for a novice, not a beginner. The fact the ad stated that the horse was bold out hunting would put me off. I'd agree with the others - contact the dealer and see about an exchange. I hadn't realised this was a horse that had come from a dealer that you had only had for 2 months.


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## indie1282 (1 March 2016)

ArthursMam said:



			I'm based in South Wales, near abergavenny. Ideally I'd prefer someone who can come to us rather than ship him off to another yard. We had an experienced rider at first come and ride a couple of times a week. He tried his luck with her also but gave up when he realised she was stronger than him. Unfortunately that didn't work out for long. He was only going out for 10 minutes and the rider was unreliable. 

I appreciate your answers but selling him really isn't an option. I'm inexperienced and stupid I admit that but I'm not giving up yet. 

I can also understand your concern of him harming us or a bystander but blame it on the lack of sleep and worry at the moment but I'm not finding that helpful. 

Walking the donkeys with him may also be an option. He loves them both x
		
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Firstly, no person is stronger than a horse especially a big 17hh ID. She probably had more skill and experience than either yourself or your oh.

And as for finding the injuring a bystander " not helpful" then you need to wake up and realise that there's a good possibility that it might happen! If you are not in control and that horse bolts or chucks you off and ends up on the bonnet of a car or knocking someone over potentially killing them then you will have to live with that for the rest of your life.  And I speak from experience - ive seen a horse go headlong in to a car and it was horrific. . Horse died, kids in the car crying and upset, utter pandemonium and then the farmer having to come and scrap the dead horse up on the front of the tractor to get it out of the road.


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## Leo Walker (1 March 2016)

And of course the whole ad could just be a lie. I'd bet money on him being bought cheap in Ireland and then sold on quickly at a huge mark up. What was he like when you tried him OP?


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## Goldenstar (1 March 2016)

EQUIDAE said:



			The ad describes him as suitable for a novice, not a beginner. The fact the ad stated that the horse was bold out hunting would put me off. I'd agree with the others - contact the dealer and see about an exchange. I hadn't realised this was a horse that had come from a dealer that you had only had for 2 months.
		
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I did not realise the horse was from a dealer and as little as two months ago .
OP ring them at once and get the horse back to them .


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## Goldenstar (1 March 2016)

FrankieCob said:



			And of course the whole ad could just be a lie. I'd bet money on him being bought cheap in Ireland and then sold on quickly at a huge mark up. What was he like when you tried him OP?
		
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Won't be the first or last time 
He's not an RID so that's a big price for that type of horse .


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## ester (1 March 2016)

OP, I don't want to sound like a broken record by I too would be contacting the dealer.


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## EQUIDAE (1 March 2016)

FrankieCob said:



			And of course the whole ad could just be a lie. I'd bet money on him being bought cheap in Ireland and then sold on quickly at a huge mark up. What was he like when you tried him OP?
		
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Something about this thread is starting to ring bells - I have a funny feeling that the OP only tried the horse in the school at the yard and never actually hacked it. I recall something about taking the horse there and then? OP correct me if I am wrong - was this you?


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## Templebar (1 March 2016)

Aside from anything else OP as a lot of people have made very valid comments and I agree with the fact that he should be sold he is a big horse for a total beginner and dangerous for the two of you to handle on your own. Personally I think having seen that he hunted in Ireland may say it all, he sounds like a big bold horse that requires plenty of riding.

That aside if you get an instructor please be aware that the best ones may also advise you to retire or sell and get something more suitable, hopefully they will still help you though, if you do not agree with them then that is fine but an instructor who does not see these problems may not be the most suitable for this situation.


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## Orca (1 March 2016)

ArthursMam said:



			I appreciate your answers but selling him really isn't an option. I'm inexperienced and stupid I admit that but I'm not giving up yet.
		
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Stupidity is not knowing when you're beaten but this isn't even a case of 'giving up', more a case of making a responsible decision. I know you said up thread that you 'love him' but really, putting your own feelings aside might be best here...



ArthursMam said:



			I can also understand your concern of him harming us or a bystander but blame it on the lack of sleep and worry at the moment but I'm not finding that helpful.
		
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...and here too. You might not want to accept the reality of the danger this horse poses but he does pose a risk to you, your husband and very much to the public, like it or not. I've been present through some quite horrific accidents, including the death of a friend via a horse. I'm sure many of us have borne witness to (or been involved in) serious accidents and you yourself have seen first hand the harm an out of control, half ton animal can cause - so, why are you not taking this more seriously? Taking him out with your donkeys is all well and good but if he does bomb off, how are you planning to stop him? Please do consider returning him or retiring him if you must hold on to him (which I think would be a shame for him, given he might go well for someone else).


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## Goldenstar (1 March 2016)

I wonder OP how long you think you will have hand walk a 17 heavy weight Irish hunter ( with donkeys ) in order to give him enough exercise I suppose three hours a day might do it .


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## asterope (1 March 2016)

I've occasionally commented to (usually non-horsey) friends that the way some horse people talk about their horses makes it sound as if they're in an abusive relationship and OP fits the bill. Loving a horse is not enough when it is dangerous enough to cause serious injury to your husband and you evidently don't have the skills to cope with it. It doesn't particularly matter that you believe him to be 'gentle' - regardless of how he behaves on the ground - when he is acting so dangerously under saddle. Yes, he may be settling in, yes, he may come right with time - but equally he may not, or at least may not with you, and in the meantime it sounds as if there's a not insignificant chance of him causing someone else (or himself) another serious injury. Accepting that he is not the horse for you is not the same thing as giving up - it's being realistic about your own abilities and about the horse.


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## ester (1 March 2016)

It sounds like you have had a nasty fall with this horse too OP, I was going to ask how he was bitted.



ArthursMam said:



			Good Afternoon,

This is my first post ;-)

I've become the proud new Mammy of an extremely strong Irish Draught. He's my first horse following around a 15 year break from riding and we've had a few initial teething problems with the settling period.

Things seem to have settled a little more now and I'm feeling more confident in riding him.

Please ignore my very poor knowledge on the use of bits. My old training taught me that bitting up was not the best option but following 3 very scary rides when I had zero breaks, landed on my face on concrete and Arthur spun and spun, riding him became terrifying. He would have become an ornament in the paddock which would have been unfair to his potential.

He was sold with a snaffle bit. He behaved very well for the first week but started napping for his new friends and became uncontrollable. Out of desperation a friend gave us her Cheltenham gag which changed my life!

So, my problem. The friend needs her Cheltenham bit back and I've purchased my own. The one I have been using is a metal Cheltenham gag and the one I have purchased is a rubber solid Cheltenham gag. 

My question is...... will there be a significant difference in my control?

I really cannot land on my head again!

Also, the forum has provided me with so much reassurance when I've been so stressed about him settling and just wanted to say thank you to you all. 

x x
		
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I think it is best foolish and at worst dangerous for you to keep this chap and I would be contacting the dealer asap as not fit for purpose he was sold for. It is possible they thought he was a novice ride, and that may have been the case when he was hunting a lot too but right now he really isn't and however much you love him it is only a 2 month attachment and you would likely love something else, and stay safe.


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## rotters13 (1 March 2016)

Just putting it out there to the OP : Having a horse misbehave when ridden doesn't make him "bad" - it just means he's not a fit with the rider. My horse used to petrify me and used to properly bolt - he was a saint on the ground but it boiled down to the fact that I couldn't give him the confidence he needed when being ridden. He went to a professional for a very long time and it cost a fortune. I was an experienced rider and we have now got him back but what I have learnt is that it is DANGEROUS to overhorse yourself. As a novice or beginner rider this is an accident waiting to happen. Common sense needs to prevail here. 

Either commit to sending him away or move him onto a different rider.


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## OWLIE185 (1 March 2016)

I am very impressed in the responses forum members have given to this post.
It really annoys me that so little exposure is done with young horses these days to ensure that they do not react to basic things like cars, lorries, tractors dogs chain saws etc.
My first horse ( a basic tri-coloured skewbald cob) was ridden by itself through the centre of London and did not react to anything (Oxford Circus, Regent Street, Piccadily Circus, Trafalgar Square, Park Lane and Hyde Park).  Why are young horses so badly trained these days?
I do appreciate that some horses do not have a quiet laid back temperament and will never cope with being hacked out by themselves.
I very much hope that the original poster will after having a good think about this find themselves a more suitable quiet horse which will look after them and not endanger other members of the public.


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## CazD (1 March 2016)

Oh OP, I feel for you.  Having read all 8 pages of this thread I have to agree that it would be best to return him or retire him and find yourself something quieter and safer.  Keeping horses is an expensive hobby - and it's supposed to be fun!!!!


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## zigzag (1 March 2016)

I am not being sharp but have seen some dreadful accidents where people are over horsed. Can I ask what are you feeding him?


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## SatansLittleHelper (1 March 2016)

OP you sound so much like I was with my previous horse...though I bought mine as a mistreated 2 year old and he'd just turned 5 at the time of sale. 
I loved that horse so very much BUT I had also just a few months before learned the hardest lesson I will ever learn in my life.
My severely disabled 6 year old daughter went into respiratory arrest and I had to decide if she should go on life support or be allowed to go peacefully there and then. In that moment I knew that loving someone is NEVER EVER enough....all the love in the world would not fetch my little girl back....but I loved her enough to let her go.
A couple of months down the line when my beloved horse bucked me off and broke my ankle and wrist I finally realised that loving him just wasn't enough. At the time part of me couldn't have cared less if the boy killed me having lost my daughter but the sensible part of me wanted him to become the best he could be even if it wasnt with me. I lived him too much to allow him to be ruined by me. I am in touch with his new owner and they are fantastic together...I'm so proud of them both. 
I apologise if my post seems a little melodramatic for the situation but I'm just trying to explain, in a clumsy way,  that just because you love him doesn't mean he's the right one, and sometimes loving them means giving them a proper chance at life before they lead a life of misery being labelled as dangerous. X


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## gothdolly (1 March 2016)

OP, I have de-lurked for the first time in about 5 years to post on your thread, as I have been so worried reading everything that you have written about Arthur. He is beautiful, and I can see why you "love" him but I think your judgement may be clouded by your excitement at owning a horse again after a long break, and owning such a stunning horse. I honestly think both you and your husband are over horsed with him. I would be too, he sounds like a very big ride. He may be someone else's perfect horse, I'm sure he is talented and bold out hunting etc. But I really came on here to beg you to please, please not put yourself in danger again, don't ride out alone until you have much more control. I'm actually genuinely worried for you.

And yes, if you have money space and time, do get another safer, calmer and more predictable horse. But do it for yourself, so you can enjoy riding again, not for Arthur. 

Horses are a very expensive way to be miserable if you have the wrong horse. Consider talking to the dealer you bought him from at least, they may offer an exchange if they value their reputation.


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## alliwantforchristmas (1 March 2016)

He behaved very well for the first week but started napping for his new friends and became uncontrollable.
Read more at http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/foru...-we-buy-another-one/page8#84SkZxFpSUb6YRm4.99

OP - quite a few of you comments lead me to think this horse is desperately insecure and the slightest thing is "setting him off".  I think he needs a confident, competent rider who he can take his confidence and direction from.  It seems he isn't getting the confidence he needs from you or your husband ... and are you really going to feel confident getting back on after what happened to your OH?  It sounds as if he has done a fair bit of hunting in Ireland, which probably means he has been ridden by competent riders - even at 70 - who will be able to cope with him ... and also that he will have done a fair bit of work as in hunting regularly and getting fit for the job - so the change to trundling around with two novices on his own is probably a huge culture shock for him.  I think you might be setting yourself an impossibly difficult, expensive and heart-breaking task to turn this horse into a trundle-round-the-lanes plod that it sounds like you - and especially your husband - needs.  If the horse has enjoyed his previous existence, and it has suited him, it would be a shame to deprive him of that.  If I were you (and I have thought hard about this, as I bought my lad in December, and love him dearly, even though he is not *exactly* as described), I would look to return him or sell him.  My boy lacks confidence, but he is only 15hh and has never used his strength against me, or tanked off.  Even when scared he does his very best to hold it together.  If he had injured me, or my OH as badly as your husband has been injured, or posed a serious risk to my safety, or the safety of other members of the public, I would, with a heavy heart, be accepting that this was not meant to be and looking to rehome him in the most responsible way possible - either returning him to his sellers, or advertising him as honestly as possible, as a big strong horse, suitable for confident and experienced riders. If you think of nothing else imagine how you would feel if this horse got away from you and was seriously injured or even killed in a resulting accident.  Sometimes love really does mean letting go.


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## EQUIDAE (1 March 2016)

alliwantforchristmas said:



			He behaved very well for the first week but started napping for his new friends and became uncontrollable.
Read more at http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/foru...-we-buy-another-one/page8#84SkZxFpSUb6YRm4.99

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You've linked back to this thread  I was sure there was another thread around somewhere though.


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## paddi22 (1 March 2016)

Would you take your car out for a drive if there was a good chance it would go out of control and speed off in any direction it wanted with the potential to crash into other people or cars ? No - you wouldn't- because you would see the danger to yourself and also more importantly to innocent road users. 

You need to get over the 'i love him though' excuse. If you truly loved him, you'd want to see him matched to a suitable owner where he feels confident and he can be with someone who is the right fit for him.  What you are is fond and attached, but it's making you blind and you are not doing yourself or him any favours.

If he's been hunted for four full seasons, the chances are he is a forward going active horse whose had very little schooling but who enjoys galloping around the countryside in a group.  You want a safe happy hacker, he isn't that. You are being absolutely blind to the issue as you don't want to face it. You say he is 100% to ride, but that he's scared of sheep and cars that come close. Both of which you will encounter daily when you hack. He is not the horse you need. And loving him isn't going to make him the horse you need, or you the rider that he needs. 

You can pump in money and energy for schooling him, training you to ride properly, probably more injuries on the way and realistically not being able to hack like you want to for a few years probably. Or you can sell him to a nice hunting home that'd he'd enjoy and get a horse who loves hacking and who is happy with that job.


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## alliwantforchristmas (1 March 2016)

EQUIDAE said:



			You've linked back to this thread  I was sure there was another thread around somewhere though.
		
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I've just copied from the link posted by someone else.  This comment came from the OP's first post where she asks about changing the horse's bit due to lack of control.  She has started a couple of other threads, but I've not seen a post that says she didn't get the chance to try him properly ...


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## MagicMelon (1 March 2016)

I think he sounds dangerous for you to hack. Did he only hack in his previous home?  Have you contacted them to tell them your problem?  He might have not hacked much before or only ever in company etc. so perhaps finding this out will help work out why he's so scared?  A horse that bolts is extremely dangerous. One of mine bolted twice down the road in my first 6 months of owning him - the second time he did it he ditched me and galloped along the road home. I stopped hacking from this day onwards because I was terrified that he could have hit a car.  I only hacked him in company after that and he was a dream, it was only on his own that he was so edgy. He was however a fantastic competition horse so thats what he did and he was the perfect horse for me, and I still have him - now retired at 18yrs old. So what Im saying is, some horses dont suit certain jobs - yours might not be a happy hacker?


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## ester (1 March 2016)

alliwantforchristmas said:



			I've just copied from the link posted by someone else.  This comment came from the OP's first post where she asks about changing the horse's bit due to lack of control.  She has started a couple of other threads, but I've not seen a post that says she didn't get the chance to try him properly ...
		
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It was me that quoted the post about bitting. Nowhere has the OP said she didn't try him properly I don't think.


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## alliwantforchristmas (1 March 2016)

ester said:



			It was me that quoted the post about bitting. Nowhere has the OP said she didn't try him properly I don't think.
		
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EQUIDAE seems to think the OP only tried the horse in a school, but I've not seen that.

Looking at the orignal (smaller ad)posted, it would seem this horse has hunted for four seasons, and done SJ and DR.  He doesn't seem like an ideal happy hacker.


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## EQUIDAE (1 March 2016)

ester said:



			It was me that quoted the post about bitting. Nowhere has the OP said she didn't try him properly I don't think.
		
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The situation sounds so familiar - I'm not sure whether it was on here or one of the facebook pages, it may even be someone else totally I guess... The situation that sounds familiar is a horse bought from a dealer as bomb proof for a novice husband to hack (the picture of the horse looked familiar). Said horse was totally unsuitable but it turned out the buyer did themselves no favours as they only tried the horse in the school and I think, took the horse away with them there and then. It may be someone totally different but the timeline, horse and novice hacking husband fits. I just wish I could find the thread/post.

OP I apologise if this wasn't you of course.


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## Lottyhorse (1 March 2016)

SatansLittleHelper said:



			OP you sound so much like I was with my previous horse...though I bought mine as a mistreated 2 year old and he'd just turned 5 at the time of sale. 
I loved that horse so very much BUT I had also just a few months before learned the hardest lesson I will ever learn in my life.
My severely disabled 6 year old daughter went into respiratory arrest and I had to decide if she should go on life support or be allowed to go peacefully there and then. In that moment I knew that loving someone is NEVER EVER enough....all the love in the world would not fetch my little girl back....but I loved her enough to let her go.
A couple of months down the line when my beloved horse bucked me off and broke my ankle and wrist I finally realised that loving him just wasn't enough. At the time part of me couldn't have cared less if the boy killed me having lost my daughter but the sensible part of me wanted him to become the best he could be even if it wasnt with me. I lived him too much to allow him to be ruined by me. I am in touch with his new owner and they are fantastic together...I'm so proud of them both. 
I apologise if my post seems a little melodramatic for the situation but I'm just trying to explain, in a clumsy way,  that just because you love him doesn't mean he's the right one, and sometimes loving them means giving them a proper chance at life before they lead a life of misery being labelled as dangerous. X
		
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Very pertinent, insightful points, and I'm so sorry for your loss SLH xxx


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## LinzyD (1 March 2016)

OMG, this thread is terrifying.  We have a 17h Irish Draft who is a total darling and complete gentleman, but I shudder to think of putting a complete beginner on him to hack out on a public road.  OP, you are not doing this horse a favour by keeping him - let him go somewhere where he can do the job he was bred for, where he can hunt, jump, perform, and enjoy life to the full.  We all get blindly emotional about our own horses, but surely the horrific accident to your partner is sufficient wake-up call to the fact that you simply don't have the experience to manage this particular horse.  I'd go as far as to say that if, god forbid, there were another accident causing injury to a third party you could find yourself accused not
merely of being irresponsible, but actually of being criminally negligent given all the very good advice you are getting from very experienced horse owners and what you have experienced.   Get a pair of bomb-proof cobs of a sensible size around 15h that you can enjoy together, hack to the pub, tie them up outside, have a drink, hack home, love them.  The big horse will find a fantastic, experienced home, and you will be happy and safe.


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## ArthursMam (1 March 2016)

Omg!! I'm op other half, she comes to you for advice and you spend the day kicking her to death ....shame on you! You bunch of bullies !


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## paddi22 (1 March 2016)

ArthursMam said:



			Omg!! I'm op other half, she comes to you for advice and you spend the day kicking her to death ....shame on you! You bunch of bullies !
		
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Do you think it's ok for a half ton animals to be galloping uncontrollably down a road and risk injuring other road users or crashing into a car? While the rider could be realistically be killed or seriously injured?

Because thats the basic situation that is described.

The poster has little or no control over the horse and is a danger to herself and other road users. This situation will only get worse and the defense of 'but i love the horse' won't solve the problem.


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## SatansLittleHelper (1 March 2016)

What?!
Bullies?!
She came here for advice and that's what she's getting. I haven't seen one person be nasty to her. No one has kicked her but many people are incredibly concerned about all of yours safety.


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## Annagain (1 March 2016)

I know I posted before, giving you the name of someone who may be able to help but the more I read of this, the more I think you need to send him back - for his sake as much as yours. He is telling you he's unhappy through his behaviour. I'm not for one second saying it's your fault, sometimes it just doesn't work out, but happy, confident horses just don't do this. 

It's a cliché but if you really do love him you have to let him go and give him a chance with someone who can deal with him. It's not giving up on him, it's the opposite. It's letting him have a chance of a life he's better suited to.


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## EQUIDAE (1 March 2016)

ArthursMam said:



			Omg!! I'm op other half, she comes to you for advice and you spend the day kicking her to death ....shame on you! You bunch of bullies !
		
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what she has done could have killed you


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## asterope (1 March 2016)

ArthursMam said:



			Omg!! I'm op other half, she comes to you for advice and you spend the day kicking her to death ....shame on you! You bunch of bullies !
		
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Actually, most people are trying to prevent her getting herself (or you) killed by continuing to ride a horse that is frankly dangerous in its present state. I'd say that's the opposite of 'kicking her to death'.


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## Prince33Sp4rkle (1 March 2016)

no one is bullying anyone.

if you dont want to hear that the horse is too much for you (and he may be beautiful and loving and talented in other areas but he is not, and never will be from the sounds of it, an easy hack) then fine. but the liability rests with you if he kills or injures an innocent 3rd party when out of control.

what about if he kills or permanently disables one of you? or kills himself chucking you off and running under a lorry? will the love have been worth it then?

you need to open your eyes to what could go (badly) wrong here.


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## LHIS (1 March 2016)

ArthursMam said:



			Omg!! I'm op other half, she comes to you for advice and you spend the day kicking her to death ....shame on you! You bunch of bullies !
		
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Wrong.  Nothing but sound advice here from some very experienced riders and owners.  Your Wife wanted advice and that is exactly what she has received.  Burying your heads in the sand is foolish and next time you come off perhaps might not be so lucky.  You would do well to take heed of this advice and reconsider your seemingly blind faith that this horse will come good.  Sometimes admitting defeat is the hardest thing to do, but you and your wife's safety must come first.  

Sadly I feel all this good advice will fall on deaf ears.  I wish the both of you luck.


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## cobgoblin (1 March 2016)

OP I think you have bought the wrong horse...you are not the first to do this and you definitely won't be the last!
I know you love him and it's very hard to let go of a horse you love...but will you still feel the same way if you end up in a wheelchair? Sorry to be harsh, but this is the way to look at it.


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## ester (1 March 2016)

Wow really!? 
I think people have given considered sensible advice with concern only for both or yours, and the horse's and everyone you might encounter on while on a road.

what do you propose instead of 1) get some really good professional help, and possibly their opinion on suitability, get them to put the horse in some harder work 2) sell horse, 3) retire horse to field (seems a bit of a shame for a previously active, expensive 10 year old). 4) Contact the dealer you bought him off.

You have both fallen off this horse, on the road in a very short amount of time and one of you has been pretty nastily injured. If that isn't enough to tell you it isn't working I'm not sure what is.


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## OWLIE185 (1 March 2016)

No we are not bullying your partner at all.
We are giving her some very sensible advice based on many years of keeping and riding horses.
We wish to ensure that you both can enjoy your  riding and that you do not have any more accidents.
We are not bullies just very concerned about you both and to assist you to make a sensible decision about the future of your horse.


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## irishdraft (1 March 2016)

Gosh what a strange attitude to take, I have read this whole thread partly because I own IDs , the OP has asked for advice regarding the behaviour of her horse and has consistently been given very sensible advice.Maybe you are unaware of the seriousness of the situation, you could both end up badly injured and so could the horse.


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## Dave's Mam (1 March 2016)

I think all the advice given has been sound, and based on MANY people's personal experiences.  No one has bullied, you just haven't liked the answers.

He's a big horse, and not what is right for you.  I'd be terrified to ride him out, not just for myself, but what might happen to someone else too.


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## alliwantforchristmas (1 March 2016)

I'm really sorry that you think anyone has bullied your other half.  One or two posters may have been a little 'blunt' but in all honesty I think everyone is very concerned about the safety of both of you, the horse, and any third parties who may be at risk if the horse is out of control in a public place.  I'm sorry that you haven't received the advice you obviouly wanted to hear ... ie, 'get another horse to hack out with and all will be well' - but unfortunately horses aren't as simple as that.  You are both clearly heavily invested emotionally in the horse, which is admirable, but it means you are clouding your judgement to the very real danger.  Just read back the posts - horse 'spinning and spinning' and your wife landing on her head on concrete, and now you with serious fractures, and would you, in all honesty, if the shoe was on the other foot be encouraging a couple to keep a 17hh, powerful, 'bold' hunter/jumper in his prime as a hack for two novices around the lanes.  Forget the advert and look at the horse infront of you - you've both had serious scares/injuries - in all honesty there is no advice that anyone on a forum could responsibly give you that would go along the lines of 'yes, keep trying with this horse and all will be fine'.  At the very least get out a professional, have some eyes on the ground to see exactly what you and the horse are like, and take their advice as to whether it could possibly work, and what it would take.


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## Annagain (1 March 2016)

If you went up to 100 strangers at a show to ask their opinion and 99 of them gave you the same answer - that the horse should be sold / returned - would you think they were bullying your wife or would you listen? That's effectively what you've done here. 

Just because we're telling her what she doesn't want to hear (mainly because we've all been there or know someone who has) does not mean anybody is bullying her. We've offered well meaning advice - some more forcefully than others - but every single poster has had your, your wife's and your horse's best interests at heart.


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## sydney02 (1 March 2016)

I have read all 11 pages of this thread and I don't think anyone has given anything but advice, definitely don't agree with bullying. It can be hard to listen to advice when it feels everyone is suggesting what seems impossible

I had lots of problems with my first horse, started with her bolting with me on the road and me falling and breaking my shoulder. I got professional help, lessons and spent £££ on xrays, physios and ulcer scoping. I felt like I had to keep her, I was in love with her and I was very scared that she'd go to someone who'd hurt her or wouldn't understand her but after I started to dread riding I knew I had to sell her. I ended up giving her away to a friend and it was the best decision I ever made because they are perfect for each other, and both her and me are so much happier.

It's really hard but there is no shame in admitting you and a horse don't suit each other. My favourite horsey quote is its an expensive way to be miserable, and when I see so many people angry and miserable with their horses it makes me so glad I sold my mare. My second horse is my horse of a lifetime, I love him to bits and i'm not one bit scared to get on him and go anywhere. 

Life is too short. Don't take chances with this horse, yes you might be able to get him hacking out happily but you might also spend a lot of time and money on a horse that you can't help and get seriously injured in the process. Let this horse carry on his journey to find someone right for him, and you find yourself a safe happy hack. Be happy.


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## ester (1 March 2016)

I guess the OP just wanted a 'don't worry he will settle in'/It's just character sort of response. 

Also he is only described as ID type irishdraft I have to say he doesn't look very ID to me.


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## Valar Morghulis (1 March 2016)

Just because we're telling her what she doesn't want to hear (mainly because we've all been there or know someone who has) does not mean anybody is bullying her. We've offered well meaning advice - some more forcefully than others - but every single poster has had your, your wife's and your horse's best interests at heart.
		
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Totally agree.

FWIW, I have a horse who has hunted for many seasons and is absolutely brilliant to hunt - so much so that he is often borrowed by visiting friends. Because he is so good with a competent rider (and has been ridden by lots of different people) I once agreed to let another friend ride him. 

This friend said he had ridden a lot but it turned out - once he was on the horse - that he was a complete novice. He was unbalanced and he was very tense and lacking in confidence. The horse wasn't doing anything wrong but he takes his cue from his rider and I could see the confidence draining out of him with every yard this person rode. I actually asked the friend to get off only a couple of hundred yards into the ride because I could see that the horse was either going to buck or bolt. The same horse will go beautifully for a balanced, confident rider.

Moving your horse on to a more suitable home, where he can go back to doing what he loves and feels safe doing, is likely to be much fairer to him and you and kinder as well in the long run.


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## Amymay (1 March 2016)

ArthursMam said:



			Omg!! I'm op other half, she comes to you for advice and you spend the day kicking her to death ....shame on you! You bunch of bullies !
		
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The responses on this thread have been overwhelmingly unanimous in the opinion that the two of you are completely overhorsed (rather rare on HHO). No one has bullied, just been honest.

I'm sure the horse is an absolute poppet,  and with a more experienced rider possibly a dope on a rope.

Unfortunately neither you or your OH are experienced riders (no shame in that - we've all been there. Most of us have also had times where we've been over horsed).

So keep or sell. But please don't get anyone else badly injured, or worse killed.

I'm assuming you have good public liability insurance.......


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## Red-1 (1 March 2016)

SatansLittleHelper said:



			OP you sound so much like I was with my previous horse...though I bought mine as a mistreated 2 year old and he'd just turned 5 at the time of sale. 
I loved that horse so very much BUT I had also just a few months before learned the hardest lesson I will ever learn in my life.
My severely disabled 6 year old daughter went into respiratory arrest and I had to decide if she should go on life support or be allowed to go peacefully there and then. In that moment I knew that loving someone is NEVER EVER enough....all the love in the world would not fetch my little girl back....but I loved her enough to let her go.
A couple of months down the line when my beloved horse bucked me off and broke my ankle and wrist I finally realised that loving him just wasn't enough. At the time part of me couldn't have cared less if the boy killed me having lost my daughter but the sensible part of me wanted him to become the best he could be even if it wasnt with me. I lived him too much to allow him to be ruined by me. I am in touch with his new owner and they are fantastic together...I'm so proud of them both. 
I apologise if my post seems a little melodramatic for the situation but I'm just trying to explain, in a clumsy way,  that just because you love him doesn't mean he's the right one, and sometimes loving them means giving them a proper chance at life before they lead a life of misery being labelled as dangerous. X
		
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I found your response SLH very moving. I am glad that you had such presence of mind in a difficult time.

OP's husband, I am sorry, I hate bullying, but I do not think there has been bullying here.

If the horse was from a dealer and is not fit for purpose, then personally I would return for a refund.

For what it's worth I don't think the horse was mis-sold, as he behaved for a week. Then he needed help from his mates, as he was presumably not getting help from his rider. Only then did he start showing dangerous behaviours.

BUT, he was advertised as suitable for a novice, and although he WAS suitable for a week, he proved not so in the longer term. So, IMO, not mis sold, but also not suitable. The subtle difference would mean you would be unable to return to a private seller, but could, legally, to a dealer.

HOWEVER, you bought a horse, and if you would prefer to have a field ornament, then that is entirely your prerogative. In that case I would get a companion. I don't think the horse would mind. 

I believe if you threw enough money at it then that could also work. I am talking having a professional ride the horse, and also for you to have lessons. I mean long term, not just one or two. 

To press on as you are seems dangerous. I would also flag up that you have posted dangerous behaviour on a public forum, where you could be traced, as you have posted your first name and horse details..... so, if there was an accident you may find you are not insured. Another HHO poster posted about a horse that was showing dangerous traits, and she was told that she was NOT insured third party, through many companies inc BHS. 

I was surprised to hear this, see Michen's posts, but she contacted a few companies with the same result.

If this is not resolved then if there was an accident, then you have already publicly admitted the horse is acting in a dangerous manner, and that you are not always in control, so you would be risking your house at the least, and possibly a lot more if a person is injured.

I too have been in this position. In October OH and I bought "Betty" (17hh 5yo) for me to play with and him (inexperienced) to hack. I am a professional, but older now, with a bad back and hip. I thought Betty would be OK, as she was a superstar. In fact, she hurt my hip and back. OH was not experienced enough to have her on his own, and despite the fact that we loved her very much, we were not the "fit" that I hoped for. We lost some money on her, found her a great home, and now we have adjusted our hopes. It hurts. But, it was the best thing to do.

We could, of course, have chosen to keep Betty as a field ornament. That is my choice, as  had bought the horse. In the cold light of day though, it would not have been right for me or OH.

I am sorry if you feel bullied. People would like for you to feel safe and have fun. No-one has an axe to grind. If you would like a field ornament then so be it. If you would like to invest in help then I think it would need to be a lot of help, but that is great too. 

Good luck OP, hope you come to a decision that feels right for you.


ETA http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/foru...r-public-liability&highlight=michen+insurance


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## Goldenstar (1 March 2016)

ester said:



			I guess the OP just wanted a 'don't worry he will settle in'/It's just character sort of response. 

Also he is only described as ID type irishdraft I have to say he doesn't look very ID to me.
		
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He's no ID.
It's worth remembering that hunters can be useless hacking alone if he hunted a great deal in Ireland he was probably a hireling he would be ridden by lots of people and basically gone along with the herd and sometimes they only time they ride them is when they are hunting or some English person is trying them to buy them .
They have no relationship with the rider and no idea that's that's an option .
They then land in a home  and are excepted to go out alone, away from the discipline of dealers / hireling yards it quickly unravels .
People often expect horses that hunt to be bold alone ,all ours are ,but it's not a given that a hunter is a good hack without company ,one of the best field masters horses I ever saw was an appalling hack.
I will be one of the people OP's other half is accusing of bulling her , I stand by every word .
It's very easy to tell people what they want to hear , have some lessons and yes of course you can love your horse into behaving it's not that simple .


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## Fun Times (1 March 2016)

OP please see that absolutely no one is bullying anybody here. But if you think that a second horse or love of the horse will help you out of this muddle, then I am afraid you are likely to be disappointed. My advice would be to return the horse to the dealer now, whilst there is still half a chance they will take him. The other option is to chuck lots of money at the problem by sending the horse away for professional schooling followed by you having lots of frequent lessons on him. Personally, I am not sure I would want to invest that level of money trying to turn a horse into a happy hacker.


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## cobgoblin (1 March 2016)

ArthursMam said:



			Omg!! I'm op other half, she comes to you for advice and you spend the day kicking her to death ....shame on you! You bunch of bullies !
		
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If you are the OP's other half then I think your protectiveness is misplaced. Are you seriously saying that you are happy for OP to receive misguided advice that says everything is going to be ok? Are you happy for her to continue riding this horse?
No one on here has bullied her. HHO may be many things and occasionally arguments can be heated, but I can assure you that when someone comes on here and asks advice about a potentially serious problem, as this is, then you will get the best and considered answers.

I am sure you are still reading the thread, even if you do not reply...such things are like a sore tooth. I'm sure you could seek advice from some nefarious Facebook group and hear the answers you seem to want, but that doesn't make them true.


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## Orca (1 March 2016)

ArthursMam said:



			Omg!! I'm op other half, she comes to you for advice and you spend the day kicking her to death ....shame on you! You bunch of bullies !
		
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This is one of those rare threads within which just about everyone has posted the same or similar responses. That isn't due to bullying or some kind of herd mentality but because everyone here is able to be objective where you and your other half are finding it impossible to be.

Please don't take that shared perspective personally because actually, it would have been irresponsible of posters to not attempt to impress upon you the seriousness of this situation. The points made have been factual, genuine and realistic. I won't repeat them but please do re-think your stance.


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## Pearlsasinger (1 March 2016)

Goldenstar said:



			Are you sure he's physically ok especially his back .
I say this because I have know two horses who did this inappropriate spooking behaviour and both turned out to have very back backs.
It's like they go I am coping with the pain I am coping with the pain , but I can't  cope with and that chainsaw and flip .
		
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I can relate to this. My IDx mare started spooking at cars, after the last episode when she eventually bucked me off on the road and ran off (fortunately along a track to some horses), I asked the vet to check her back. He found muscle damage and treated her with acupuncture. We think that the muscle pain caused tension in her neck, which in turn caused headaches and when a particular noise frequency was added in, it all became too much for her.


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## alliwantforchristmas (1 March 2016)

OP's OH ... as already said, no one is bullying, and the intention was never to offend.  But let's move the scenario forwards (theoretically) ... you are in work, or at home, and you know your wife is up on the Blorange on Arthur - are you a) happy and relaxed knowing that she is 99.9% likely to be having a fun time or b) worried and waiting for that phone call that says she's been airlifted to hospital because Arthur saw a sheep he didn't like!  This isn't drama or exaggerating - horse riding is about the most dangerous sport there is - sensible riders don't take unnecessary chances and it is foolhardy to push yourselves so far out of your depth.  Also, there is nothing worse than having a horse that you are afraid to ride; the sick feeling in the pit of your stomach, looking for excuses as to *why* you can't ride ... too busy, too tired, too windy, too hot, too many flies, when you know in your heart if you had a horse you felt safe on you'd be out there riding at every opportunity.  Don't set yourselves up for that, it's meant to be an enjoyable hobby.  All horses test us to some extent (especially when we are not in the super-confident, super-experienced category), but you've got to recognise a test that you stand a reasonable chance of passing if you summon your reserves and give it your best shot, and a situation where someone could get seriously hurt, suffer life changing injuries or worse.  Do please be careful.  Good luck with whatever you decide.


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## indie1282 (1 March 2016)

Clearly from your OMG post, you think that you are right and we are all wrong. I dont think that you even think the bolting is that bad? Your post was " Shall we buy another one?" Meaning shall you buy another horse when it should be " Help my horse has bolted with me"

OP has said that OH is novice and only had 5 lessons then lets him hacks out on a horse that has bolted! 

To Op's Oh - you have fallen of and hurt yourself badly - do you want the next time it happens  to be worse, even fatal?  Because it will happen again as you are both overhorsed. 

I've ridden for 30 years on lots of different horses and I have ridden my fair share of 'tricky' horse but a bolter? Even if it did it once that would be game over for me.

Two bits of advice you should definitely heed? 

1) Get good pulic liability insurance

2) Get good medical insurance


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## sarahw123 (1 March 2016)

ArthursMam said:



			Omg!! I'm op other half, she comes to you for advice and you spend the day kicking her to death ....shame on you! You bunch of bullies !
		
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She has been given great advise, suggestions, support and food for thought, as everyone seems to agree.


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## Crazy_cat_lady (1 March 2016)

Having been run off with down a lane before I can say it's not something I'd ever want to experience again. A lady was herding some cows and there was a fork in the road. They were meant to go right and didn't amd instead came trotting up the left which is where me and my friend were. We thought we'd turn round and walk away. Horses turned straight into a flat out gallop. The lane was twisty and I was just waiting for a car to be coming the other way and that to be it. Fortunately there wasn't and after a bit we were able to get them in a lay by and pull up but we were so so lucky nothing was coming. 
If it kept happening then I'd definitely have to question what to do. You mentioned the chainsaw and if it was just the once I don't think you'd have quite so many people saying to sell him but the fact he's done it several times with you for no real reason adds to people being worried for you both.  
If you are insistent on keeping him is there anywhere you could have lessons on him then pay someone to hack him for you- you could maybe go with them on a bike to see how they manage him? I'd also be investing in body protectors and or air jackets.

Like the poster above said I wouldn't be putting someone who's done very little riding on a horse who's run off so many times and needs a Cheltenham gag to be able to stop. Especially as you mentioned there is a main road nearby. Is there anywhere safer your husband could ride him (if you keep him ) for a bit once he's back on his feet? My oh has never ridden before so not quite the same but he fancies trying it so I'm going to book him a lesson on one of the rs horses as while H will plods round the school most of the time he can also do a nice 180 degree spin if he suddenly spots a piece of sand he doesn't like. He perfectly demonstrated the sideways jump ability to oh when he watched my lesson at the weekend - having spent half an hour before going over the same spot we were cooling down when he decided to jump sideways.  I won't put OH on him as I don't want him to be put off. 
It sounds like you bought your horse to share and have fun hacking out with which is really nice but do you want one of you to get scared and lose the fun?  As it would be a shame for that to happen and I know if I kept getting tanked off with by a 17hh horse I definitely would be scared.


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## meesha (1 March 2016)

OP and OH, what we are all saying is take care, look after yourselves and each other.  It is up to you what you do... but ....do a risk assessment.

Also to add, your horse probably loved hunting and if you asked him what he would most like as a job I suspect hunting would be it!  If you sell him to a hunting home you will not be letting him down.


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## Crazy_cat_lady (1 March 2016)

Eta- I understand the love- mine was definitely a heart over head buy as I'd previously loaned him while he was in old yos riding school he then had to be taken out of it as every little thing was scaring him. He would have had an uncertain future if he'd been sold as he takes some understanding as he's neurotic. I still fully understand him  don't even after 7 years with him!! 
But he won't go in a horse box so unless there is a show at the yard I keep him at we can't compete. We can't box up and go on beach rides. 
I accept this as I knew it when I bought him but it would have been nice to do be able to do all those things.  
Op sounds like you and oh both love hacking - so do I!  Would you want to risk being unable to do that because Arthur won't?


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## Wishfilly (1 March 2016)

It sounds like the horse in it's current state could potentially go back to the dealers and have a potential future as a hunting horse, or be sold to an experienced home and have a future. If you are really happy to keep him as an un-ridden field ornament with your donkeys, then by all means keep him but at the moment it's not fair on anyone (least of all the horse, who could suffer a serious injury himself) to keep riding him out. 

A sensible first step would be to get the vet and have someone professional check the fit of all his tack to rule out pain as a cause of his behaviour. I would say this needs to be done before you ride him again and certainly before you ask anyone else to ride him. It is very likely the advert was lying/exaggerating, but equally this could be a sudden change in behaviour due to pain. 

To be honest, it sounds like your husband really needs more instruction at a good riding school (perhaps one with a focus on riding out and adult beginners) before you have him riding any horse on the road. 

If the horse was being ridden on private land only, well away from anyone else, then I'd say it's up to you and your perception of the risks. However, you really are underestimating the risk you pose to other members of the public. What if after bolting today he had met another vulnerable road user (motorcyclist, cyclist, pedestrian, or even another horse rider)? Can you not see that there is potential for serious injury or death for not just you, who've chosen to take on this risk, but other members of the public who have a reasonable expectation that you're not riding an animal you can't control on the road?


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## 9tails (2 March 2016)

Only if we believed in Darwin's Law, would we be actively encouraging you to buy another horse alongside this horse.  This horse is likely to only come good with professional help and a competent rider.


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## paddi22 (2 March 2016)

This thread should be printed and framed as the first time everyone has every agreed on a topic, never seen it happen before!


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## oldie48 (2 March 2016)

I have been bolted with once in my life on a horse that you could have put your granny on. I was riding in company with one other horse that had never in the 10 years that I'd had him ever bolted. I have no idea what the horses saw or heard or could smell but both went. I was behind on a single track lane, there was nowhere to turn and both horses were in complete flight mode. It was terrifying. If either horse had been on his own, I have no doubt we could have pulled up but the combination of two bolting horses is a very different situation as they "feed" off each other. My friend managed to pull into a gateway and I went past and was starting to gain control, unfortunately she fell off and before  I could stop, I was overtaken by a riderless horse, now even more panicked. When we eventually shot out of the track on to a busier road, I managed to turn right whilst the lead horse went left and I was able to pull up. No, I don't think OP should buy another horse whilst the first one is bolting with her.



9tails said:



			Only if we believed in Darwin's Law, would we be actively encouraging you to buy another horse alongside this horse.  This horse is likely to only come good with professional help and a competent rider.
		
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## Illusion100 (2 March 2016)

paddi22 said:



			This thread should be printed and framed as the first time everyone has every agreed on a topic, never seen it happen before!
		
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Don't jinx it!


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## paddi22 (2 March 2016)

ha, i know! someone will come on now and say he just needs a treeless saddle and micronised linseed!


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## Irish gal (2 March 2016)

paddi22 said:



			ha, i know! someone will come on now and say he just needs a treeless saddle and micronised linseed!
		
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Thanks for giving me a laugh here


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## Annagain (2 March 2016)

Wishfilly said:



			.......
		
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Sorry to hijack but am I the only one whose brain does an involuntary spoonerism with this username?


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## dibbin (2 March 2016)

annagain said:



			Sorry to hijack but am I the only one whose brain does an involuntary spoonerism with this username?
		
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... not any more.


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## cobgoblin (2 March 2016)

paddi22 said:



			ha, i know! someone will come on now and say he just needs a treeless saddle and micronised linseed!
		
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If I hadn't already posted...it might have been worth a punt!


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## 9tails (2 March 2016)

oldie48 said:



			I have been bolted with once in my life on a horse that you could have put your granny on. I was riding in company with one other horse that had never in the 10 years that I'd had him ever bolted. I have no idea what the horses saw or heard or could smell but both went. I was behind on a single track lane, there was nowhere to turn and both horses were in complete flight mode. It was terrifying. If either horse had been on his own, I have no doubt we could have pulled up but the combination of two bolting horses is a very different situation as they "feed" off each other. My friend managed to pull into a gateway and I went past and was starting to gain control, unfortunately she fell off and before  I could stop, I was overtaken by a riderless horse, now even more panicked. When we eventually shot out of the track on to a busier road, I managed to turn right whilst the lead horse went left and I was able to pull up. No, I don't think OP should buy another horse whilst the first one is bolting with her.
		
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Stuff of nightmares!


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## skint1 (2 March 2016)

Jeez, indeed!!!   Hope everyone was ok in the end.


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## paddi22 (2 March 2016)

really hope they get it sorted. I'd imagine there's no way that man would let his wife drive if there was a chance their car would just go out of control and speed off on them suddenly. i can't see why a horse would be any different.


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## amandaco2 (2 March 2016)

He sounds a dangerous horse for you both. Get professional help, accept he is a field ornament or sell him.


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## Irish gal (2 March 2016)

Now OP I don't mean to be unkind at all but I think you are in a very dangerous situation. You say you love this horse, then do the best thing for him and your family's safety - sell him.

IDs are very clever, he already knows he can mess you about and I have no doubt that he will continue. And how do you know this isn't a problem he already had long before you bought him and you were basically sold a problem horse.

I wouldn't let your husband near him, in terms of riding on the road or leading him there. He's simply not experienced enough. He's already badly injured and will no doubt now have osteo-arthritis as a result of the broken bones, that's just the result of breaks I'm afraid, but at least he's not a paraplegic - you might not be so lucky next time.

There's nothing scarier than an out of control, massive 1200 kg, bold horse. Sell him or give him away to the kind of expert who can do you and the horse a great favour by sorting him out. You're putting yourself in danger by attempting to do a job that is simply beyond you at the present time. I really wish you good luck with this problem.


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## oldie48 (2 March 2016)

Well my friend lost her confidence completely and really hasn't ridden again despite having been quite a competent and confident rider. No-one was injured but we were so lucky not to have met something on the single track lane, someone up there must have been looking after us. I was told that someone else had a similar incident on a very safe cob in the same area on the same day. Now, I'm ready for expressions of disbelief but I'm told there is a "black cat" that comes through about every 2 months, a farmer frequently loses lambs/sheep and there have been sightings of it but not by me or anyone I know personally. Both horses knew the route, are excellent to hack and if they do the occasional spook, come back to you in a matter of a couple of strides. Neither of us saw or heard anything to explain what happened, all I can say is that both horses bolted in blind panic. I just hope it never happens to me again.



skint1 said:



			Jeez, indeed!!!   Hope everyone was ok in the end.
		
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## SatansLittleHelper (2 March 2016)

You lot are all daft....Turmeric and sudocrem is all that's needed here along with a love puff from a communicator...sorted!!!!


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## Stockers (2 March 2016)

Crumbs. Just read all 15 pages. No hint of bullying - just some very good, solid, common sense advice that was asked for.  

Not getting the desired response  to a question does not render the advice giver(s) a 'bully/bullies'.

It is obvious OP is going to keep said horse in which case I think the only advice I'd give is now up your public liability insurance.  When an accident involving a third party does occur chances are your disclosure of his behaviour on a public forum and seeming refusal to acknowledge possible consequences may not stand you in good stead if a court action arises. 

But I do wish you well and hope it doesn't come to that.

edited for spelling


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## dibbin (2 March 2016)

SatansLittleHelper said:



			a love puff from a communicator
		
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I beg your pardon?!


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## skint1 (2 March 2016)

oldie48 said:



			Well my friend lost her confidence completely and really hasn't ridden again despite having been quite a competent and confident rider. No-one was injured but we were so lucky not to have met something on the single track lane, someone up there must have been looking after us. I was told that someone else had a similar incident on a very safe cob in the same area on the same day. Now, I'm ready for expressions of disbelief but I'm told there is a "black cat" that comes through about every 2 months, a farmer frequently loses lambs/sheep and there have been sightings of it but not by me or anyone I know personally. Both horses knew the route, are excellent to hack and if they do the occasional spook, come back to you in a matter of a couple of strides. Neither of us saw or heard anything to explain what happened, all I can say is that both horses bolted in blind panic. I just hope it never happens to me again.
		
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Interesting about the black cat,  of course the horses would be much more aware of something like that even if it wasn't yet in your line of sight, even if they'd never encountered one before (and why would they have?!)  they'd just know it smelled like something to fear.  I am sorry to hear about your friend's loss of confidence, I hope she gets back to enjoying her riding again.  I am not the most brave of riders anyway so I can't even imagine how I'd feel after an experience like that.  It just goes to show though how unpredictable hacking out can be, even if you have absolute trust in your horse.


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## oldie48 (2 March 2016)

It happened about three years ago and friend now has a child and I guess has other priorities. Interestingly, although I'm also not the bravest rider I didn't have any problems hacking the same route, perhaps because I felt it was a complete "one off" and I trusted both horses implicitly. However, there is no way you would get me on a horse that bolted if it met sheep, had cars too close etc these are things we meet each and every day we hack. Last week on a very narrow bridge we met 3 childcare workers from our local nursery, each pushing a triple buggy decked out in bright orange. Mr B walked past totally unconcerned. the horse I was riding on THAT day (now sold as the perfect hack) coped with buses, tractors and trailers, in fact anything!



skint1 said:



			Interesting about the black cat,  of course the horses would be much more aware of something like that even if it wasn't yet in your line of sight, even if they'd never encountered one before (and why would they have?!)  they'd just know it smelled like something to fear.  I am sorry to hear about your friend's loss of confidence, I hope she gets back to enjoying her riding again.  I am not the most brave of riders anyway so I can't even imagine how I'd feel after an experience like that.  It just goes to show though how unpredictable hacking out can be, even if you have absolute trust in your horse.
		
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## Landcruiser (2 March 2016)

I feel sorry for the OP, and sorry for the horse who is so clearly unsuitable. A heavy hunter who's used to charging around over all sorts of countryside just shouldn't be sold as suitable for a novice to hack around on. I was also sorry for the OH who sustained serious injuries, until he started throwing accusations of bullying around. Now I think they'll probably ignore everything said on here and carry on their own sweet way. And it will end in tears. We've all seen it coming.


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## Micropony (2 March 2016)

Landcruiser said:



			I feel sorry for the OP, and sorry for the horse who is so clearly unsuitable. A heavy hunter who's used to charging around over all sorts of countryside just shouldn't be sold as suitable for a novice to hack around on. I was also sorry for the OH who sustained serious injuries, until he started throwing accusations of bullying around. Now I think they'll probably ignore everything said on here and carry on their own sweet way. And it will end in tears. We've all seen it coming.
		
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I really hope not. I have read lots of threads on here where people have shared their opinions and advice and I've thought "steady on, that's a bit strong!", but this isn't one of them. A few people have been quite blunt, but I think everyone's been very constructive and actually quite aware of the OP's feelings.

I really hope that after the OP and her OH have had chance to reflect, they will take some advice from a sensible professional who's able to see them and the horse, and who I fully expect will give very similar advice to what's been said on here. I really wish this couple well, and hope they manage to resolve this without more serious injury to themselves or an innocent bystander, and without *******ing up the poor horse to the extent its chances of a happy life are blighted after they have realised they've got to the end of the road with it.


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## goldenchestnut (4 March 2016)

OP,  i quickly realised that my confidence and ability wasn't what i thought it was when i bought my horse.  I loved him and thought things will get better with time. I had lessons and took things slowly spending lots of time doing ground work. Until the day i had an awful accident out on the road and came close to death. It wasn't the horses fault but i really  wasn't the rider he needed.   After that he became the elephant in the room that nobody talks about. A lovely animal that we all loved with great protential  but what was i to do about him.  After 2 years  i decided i really must sell him on as he was totally wasted with me.  As soon as i had made the decission a great black cloud was lifted off me and i knew it was right.  I have never regreted selling him on even though i loved him to bits.   Please be honest with yourself about what you really need.


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## frostyfingers (4 March 2016)

I count myself as an experienced, pretty fearless and capable rider and owner but over the last few months have had to rethink my opinion and seek help!  I bought a new horse in December from a busy hunting yard, previously he had been eventing and have spent the last few months sorting both of us out.  As someone mentioned upthread he's used to being in a crowd and is a fab hunter but is deeply insecure on his own.  I have a companion pony and that's it so it's been a big change for him and we are slowly getting there but even now hacking alone is "interesting".  He's not actively naughty as such, just unsure of himself and reacts by whipping round and half rearing, but with help and patience is learning that he's safe out in the big bad world on his own.  He does not respect me on the ground (yet) and it more than happy to tow me around or half rear if he doesn't fancy doing something.  I have help with this and am confident it will be sorted but there have been times when I've asked myself what the hell am I doing, and when I've been frightened of him.  

My point is that if I were a novice/beginner he would have scared me sideways, quite possibly dumped me and trodden on me and hurt me - no way would I be keeping him, no matter how much I love him.  The person helping me said that we must never forget that being around horses can be incredibly dangerous and you can get seriously hurt.  Owning horses is meant to be fun.


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## risky business (4 March 2016)

annagain said:



			Sorry to hijack but am I the only one whose brain does an involuntary spoonerism with this username?
		
Click to expand...

No your not the only one


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## LinzyD (4 March 2016)

It's important to remember that horses, like people, are different in different situations.  One or two people have said that the horse was possibly wrongly described/advertised/sold.  Not necessarily.  It's quite likely that in his previous home and at the dealer's yard he was much more secure - with lots of other horses and confident, experienced handlers and riders - and in that situation did indeed seem the perfect horse for novice riders, but once out of that situation, as a sole horse, with less experienced owners, he is, as said above, deeply insecure.  No-one could have known that would be the case.  From how Arthur is described I'd wager that he's a 'follower' type of horse, desperate for a leader in every sense.  

OP, the 'right' horse for any owner has to fit the whole situation, not only the owner's specific riding ability and knowledge.  No-one can know for sure how any new situation is going to suit a particular horse; but once it is clear not only that the horse is not suitable for you, but also that the situation is not suitable for the horse, you owe it to the horse to do what is right for him.


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## fatpiggy (4 March 2016)

I've not looked at this thread for a couple of days so have just done a catch up.  I'm confused - if that is him in the advert, how come it says 16.2hh when the OP says he is 17hh.  Looking at the picture, I would doubt he was that big.  I wouldn't say he has a lot of ID in him either.  The backside comes from a cheap cob, the front end may have some ID in it.  As someone else has said he has probably just come across from Ireland and could be just about anything.  I wouldn't guarantee his age either.  I'm quite surprised he wasn't advertised as an Irish Sports Horse because that is a complete catch-all and sounds good but often isn't.   I knew a full ID who was a grade B showjumper and his VERY experienced owner used to hunt him in the winter. Even she complained he was a lunatic behind hounds and without gloves her hands would have been shredded. And he was in his teens by that time.  I hacked him out a few times and he was certainly very strong and keen but as he was on his own he stayed manageable.  He also enjoyed putting in a buck on landing after a jump so you soon learned to sit back PDQ.  He was used in the RS occasionally but only with experienced riders.  He wasn't nasty either and could be a right old softy on the ground.

TBH, if I was in the OPs shoes, I would not be keeping this horse.  You could have bought a good steady cob , a whole new set of tack and rugs and still had change left over.  The fact he has done showjumping and dressage means nothing.  That could have been the clear round and prelim 10 at the local pony club show.  No riding school would have paid that for him and I doubt many private buyers would either; way overpriced.

You must take off your sentimental hat and put on a logical one.  If you keep him you are going to have spend a small fortune in fees for having him checked out by a vet/physio, frequent lessons for both yourself and your husband from a really good instructor, if not a period of schooling with a professional first.  He has already cost you a bomb, could have cost both you and your husband your lives, and all the remedial work - you could easily be looking at £15K in total.  Is he REALLY worth that?  At least ask a good experienced horseman to come in and assess him with an open mind.


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## only_me (4 March 2016)

I think OP you should sell the horse. It's not the right one for you & frankly I wouldn't want to get back on a horse that bolted so hard that I had to bailout onto road = broken hip. Even try and exchange the horse for another with the dealer. 

If you really really don't want to sell then you have a few possibilities - retire to field, loan to a hunting home or even move him to a riding school so he gets a lot more work in a safe environment & you can have regular lessons on him. 

The problem with sending to a pro rider is that it's all very well if they can control the horse - but you still won't be able to as your riding won't be the same standard. 

In all honesty, I would be selling the horse. If he is not good to hack which is what you want to do, then what is the point of keeping him?


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## goldenchestnut (4 March 2016)

Would like to know if OP is still reading and what she is thinking of doing now that she has had so much good advice.


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## Dave's Mam (4 March 2016)

goldenchestnut said:



			Would like to know if OP is still reading and what she is thinking of doing now that she has had so much good advice.
		
Click to expand...

I was thinking the very same thing.


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## skint1 (4 March 2016)

I think it's probably not as cut and dried from where the OP is standing, in her mind the horse is good on the ground and good "most of the time" to ride and she's become attached to him. Rightly or wrongly,  it's easy for the heart to justify what it wants- but hopefully there is food for thought.


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## Charmel (4 March 2016)

My Horse is a ISH 18 hands and used to be used as a hunting hireling until he was 11. When I first bought him he was fine to hack in company and then one day out alone a stupid motorcross bike brushed passed him and he bolted with me and luckily we were on a small lane and I managed to turn him into a very high stone wall. Very scary not having control for me and him. All fine for a while then it happened again when a small child jumped out from behind a hedge and said BOO....Again stopped as a large physical barrier to stop him. However I did decide then to do a few things.... short journeys hacking alone to begin close to home, changed from snaffle to Pelham for hacking only, desensitized to the obvious threats using very sane companion out on longer hacks, Turned on farm machinery, placed scary objects in the safety of the arena I did this for the first 6 months. For me this worked and he is very laid back and I have now had him three years ... Just because he hunted in company for years doesn't mean good to hack. My horse had to learn to trust ME and he had never had a regular rider before just passengers.  However I have had horses all my life and he is one of 10 so I have lots of experience, if my efforts had failed and he spooked and bolted a third time I would have sold him back to life he was used to for his own sake and for the safety of me and other road users. Maybe a experienced happy hacker would be more suited to you. otherwise stay off the road and ride in an arena only.....however can still bolt in an arena x country etc but less chance of yours or his injury.....


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## el_Snowflakes (4 March 2016)

I think the incident just shows you are completely overhorsed. Sell him to someone who won't bat an eyelid at his spooks etc & buy something you can enjoy with relative peace of mind.


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## RedDevlin (4 March 2016)

I've been in OP's shoes. With a horse that I bought untouched from the field, broke myself and brought on over three years. He wasnt for me, there were times where I could ride him tackless in a field or hack in a rope halter. But then there were the other times, the ones that made me cry and want to send him for glue. But those other times, that werent so rosy were enough for me to know that he wasn't for me. It's easy to think the world is a bad place, and no one but oneself could possibly look after the animal quite the way you do, no one could possibly love it, or fix it... but I took the risk. Was completely honest, and found a home with a ballsy teenager that loves him for his quirks...the same quriks that scared the pants off me! And he is absolutely thriving. He's happy, really happy! At some point sense has to give way to pride and contemplate the safety of yourself, the horse and the public/bystanders in these decisions.


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## ArthursMam (16 July 2016)

Update....

Thanks for all your comments. Some helpful, others not so but you come to expect that from the experts hiding behind a computer screen.

The original horse, who's got kicked to death by you all is now completely settled, an absolute dream on the ground and in the saddle. Will be mine forever. So before the catty comments begin that he wouldn't be sellable anyway, well we don't have to worry about that do we? 

The second horse that you thought would be a stupid idea is also remarkable. A real horse of a lifetime. 

The husband is fixed. Back in the saddle and loving his new horsey world

Insistently, for the person who labelled my horse as a cheap cob. He's not. And if he was.... So what? What did such a snobby opinion have in any relevance to the question asked? 

To the person who took offence to my username. Please see above!!! 

To the tenfold of you who scrutinised the sales advert of Arthur and felt it necessary to tell me if been conned. Again, helpful, thanks for that. Turns out he's worth a million pounds.

To the minority who were kind at what was obviously an very stressful time I thank you. To those who sent me private messages offering help, again thank you. 

It's taken almost 4 months for me to get the courage to log back on and face the slander that I'd expected had been written about me. Turns out I wasn't as bothered as I thought I would be. The majority of you have proved yourself to be know it all bullies who love a drama. Might I suggest you get out of your huddle in the tack room and go and cuddle your horse. Look into their eyes and see if they see any good in your soul. May take a while.

This will be my last ever post and the last time I log on. Please feel free to bitch amongst yourselves, your future comments will have no impact on me.

Much love 

Arthur's Mam


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## Amymay (16 July 2016)

Excellent news.


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## rachk89 (16 July 2016)

Glad the horses and your husband are fine. I wouldn't let people on here stop you posting but that is your choice.


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## SatansLittleHelper (16 July 2016)

I'm so pleased for you and your hubby.
You have to have a thick skin on these forums lol. I've had a fair amount of criticism on here but I've learned to take from it what I can and ignore the rest.
There are some lovely people on here and the written word can be tricky.


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## rowan666 (16 July 2016)

Fabulous news! Congrats and well done! Did you call in a proffesional to help or just get another to help him settle? 
we need pics of smiley happy faces on well behaved horses!


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## skint1 (16 July 2016)

Good for you for being brave and consistent enough to get on top of the issues you were having with your boy, it's not easy to step it up and overcome the nerves and everything. Glad your second horse has also turned out well. How lucky for you and your hubby!


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## sunnyone (17 July 2016)

If you are asking, will your horse learn from another? Of course hé will. Finding thé confidence giver is another story. Thé last thing you néed is two bolters.

Whilst your husband recovers I suggest you continue riding out with your friend, as before. And get thé instructor in, perhaps changing some of the tack to give you better control.
Then when husband is fitter start looking for another. No idea what type. We had a brilliant combination of TB who was superb in traffic of all sorts but hated open spaces, together with an IDX who would jump at white lines on the road! Between them though they went anywhere without incident, if one led the other followed sensibly.
Glass of whisky to you both in the meanwhile.


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## luckyoldme (17 July 2016)

lovely update op.
Well done for all your hard work, I hope you have many years of happy hacking with your boy.. you deserve it! 







Common sense can make up for a lack of knowledge in a lot of cases


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## sunnyone (17 July 2016)

I should withdraw this post. I only saw 3 pages. Not 17.
Glad everything worked out. You can still have the whiskies to enjoy.


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## Annagain (18 July 2016)

Glad it's all worked out and he's settled. 

I think you meant me with the username - I wasn't referring to your username, I was referring to "wishfilly" who had posted a response. My juvenile mind still switches the w and the f around and it STILL makes me laugh. Very daft I know.


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