# urgent info wanted *not been stolen*



## samandcasper (23 August 2010)

hi everyone thanks for reading this i've recently brough a amazing horse from some dealers in kent who said they got my boy from horse and hound and he was free to good home but only because he couldnt be cared or paid for, he was in an awful state cuts that look like knife slashed and he was a bag of bones, he is getting there now and is so loving and perfect manners but the dealer didnt have a name or really much info just he is a belguim warmblood but still im not to sure he could be something diff 11 years ish 16,2ish grey gelding i brought him as was looking for a grey any way and i fell in love with him soon as i saw him as hes such a good boy in everyway and is lovely to ride now hes back to his weight just really hope someone who owned this wonderfull boy or knows of my baby can get in touch as i am despreate to know more about him after his recent hard life i dont want to do things with him and if previous he has had accident or what nots hope this pic can help me **just to let u know he is in a very loving home is my best friend and is well cared for by me my fiance and son he dosnt want for nothing and wont be sold on** PLEASE GET IN TOUCH IF U KNOW ANYTHING...

THE DAY HE ARRIVED 





2 WEEKS AFTER GETTING HIM





AWWW I LOVE HIM SO MUCH





 1ST RIDE


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## Tinseltoes (23 August 2010)

Awww hes lovely.


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## samandcasper (23 August 2010)

thank you he's such a star  xx


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## samandcasper (24 August 2010)

JUST ADDING THAT

im not here to judge who ever owned him and not here to judge if he got like this when u owned him im really not. u did the right thing in the end and passed him on to someone who could affor or care for him. if u would rather not comment on this then email me on ryansamandscott@hotmail.com or call me on 07501848311 or text  make a fake email account and u dont have to tell me anything bout ur self just really want info on my baby to give him the best in his life with me, i'd like some proof tht u did in fact own him pic's or anything else u can show/ explain and by all means u could still come see him ect, i really have brough a horse in a million i have young son and young brother and they ride him groom lead ect and hes so perfect as i've said i'd give anything to know his name age proper breed what hes done any thing u could offer....

i named him casper  and have been told hes 11/13


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## ISHmad (25 August 2010)

I don't know anything about him but wanted to say well done for taking him on and giving him what sounds like a really loving and kind home.  

Please don't take this the wrong way but I'd maybe hang fire re riding him for a bit until he has built up a bit more.  You could do lots of in hand work to help to build his muscles up more, there's a great book by Oliver Hilberger who worked with a physically poor horse who is now a strong gorgeous ridden boy.

He's a lucky horse and I'm sure he will positively blossom once again with you.


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## snopuma (25 August 2010)

Have you had a vet check his age, its just that he looks to me to be in his 20's not 11, perhaps you could get that checked out, did he come with a passport?


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## samandcasper (25 August 2010)

thanks ISH MAD he's in much much better shape now these pic were in the 1st 3 weeks, i've had him now about 3 months now... some one called world horse welfare on me thinking i had done this to him  and she said he looked far better than when i shows her the top pic and fat scored him of 2-3 and said it was ok to work him lightly so its i only have a walk round the roads or 20 mins in the school walking and bit of trot.... i've had quite a few ppl tell me the same on his age saying no older than 13 they have had a look at his teeth, 

i did get a KWPN passport but the first 4-5 pages are missing and the rest is completly empty with not 1 single bit of info in it, he isn't microchipped as the vet scanned him?

snopuma.. can u tell me why u think he looks in his 20s ? i have a 24 year old sec d mare and ppl mistake her for a 10 year old on how she looks and rides jumps ect, u have to remember he so under nurished and underweight its going to make him look old i thought the same when he was delivered and i had the run to do as i please with him but i have fed him on oil, garlic chaff, freeze pony nuts and blue chip twice a day but for the 1st 3ish weks he had 4 smaller meals of tht a day with 2-3 huge haynets bulging with hay every night... tht wasnt ment to come across as me being rude xx


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## pixi (26 August 2010)

well done to you he needed a loveing home by the looks of it thers some cruel ppl in this world good luck for the future .hes obviously been some ones pride at some point hes just got in the wrong hands try merseyhorse traceing n also paardenspeurder site in belgium


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## Changes (27 August 2010)

QR - the dealers have to know where they got him from? Surely they can tell you?


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## nativetyponies (27 August 2010)

samandcasper said:



			i did get a KWPN passport but the first 4-5 pages are missing and the rest is completly empty with not 1 single bit of info in it, he isn't microchipped as the vet scanned him?
		
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this speaks volumes to me...

my guess would be is he came over from holland, possibly a meat market and the Dealer has spun you a yarn ..sadly, it happens quite often

Have a look at the H & H adverts online..they go back months.."if" he was bought from someone advertising in H & H then i'm pretty sure you'd find it.

Then i would get your vet to give him a real passport, as the one you have probably isn't even his.


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## samandcasper (27 August 2010)

pixi, i've had a lot of people say hes looks to have been someones pride and joy at one point this is why im despreate to find them  he's my pride and joy now and ater all he would have gone through he turaly is worth his weight in gold hes just so good i havent found a fault in him yet, well apart from the mess in his stable every morning HES FILTHY LOL...

all i got told from dealers was tht he was for free to good home in the mag and i have triedto search but dont thinki do it wright as nothing ever comes up what im looking for??

he does have some very weird brandings on him but its under where the saddle goes on both sides this is why i think he was intended for meet one side looks like 2 stag horns and in the middle a L then after tht is says 2 numbers then on the other side it says 87


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## Faithkat (27 August 2010)

Stag horns is either Rheinland or Trakehener.  
Are you sure he's only 11/13 . . . .  with quite a few brands the last two numbers indicates year of birth and the letter is the initial of the stud


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## nativetyponies (27 August 2010)

samandcasper said:



			pixi, i've had a lot of people say hes looks to have been someones pride and joy at one point this is why im despreate to find them  he's my pride and joy now and ater all he would have gone through he turaly is worth his weight in gold hes just so good i havent found a fault in him yet, well apart from the mess in his stable every morning HES FILTHY LOL...

all i got told from dealers was tht he was for free to good home in the mag and i have triedto search but dont thinki do it wright as nothing ever comes up what im looking for??

he does have some very weird brandings on him but its under where the saddle goes on both sides this is why i think he was intended for meet one side looks like 2 stag horns and in the middle a L then after tht is says 2 numbers then on the other side it says 87
		
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87?...that would make him 23yrs old


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## tontoandtigger (27 August 2010)

i know the stag horns wont be anything to do with this(i thought these are normaly found on the rump!!!) but what do they brand for lose of use insurance wise ? could that have anything todo with the 
 L87. i know they brand lose of use but cant remember what .could be talking total twaddle as i have never had this done be was at a riding school and a pony was branded for this. that was a good few moons ago and things may have changed!!!!!???!!!!!!


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## Jenna500 (27 August 2010)

Re the number, it might not be his year of birth, it might just be his personal number from the stud. 

My Lui is a holsteiner and he has 97 on him, and it represents the number foal he was at the stud.  (He was born in 1999).  So your guy might just be the 87th foal born at his stud.  

I would do a search of brands on the internet - I managed to track down a friend's horse, sold to her as a TB but had a brand on his rump, turned out he was a bavarian warmblood!


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## horse4lee (27 August 2010)

Im sorry, I cannot be of much help, but just to say you have done a fab job with him. He is a handsome boy, who, no doubt is treated like a King. Bless him he's lucky to have such dedicated owners. GOOD LUCK!


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## zoeshiloh (27 August 2010)

I think I might know this horse, and I really, really hope I am wrong!! After I saw the picture I was going to ask you about his brand, and whether it had the number 8 in it!! Then just read above post... 

There was a horse kept at the same yard as Ben a few years back - he was the spitting image of your boy. He was called Harry. The lady bought him as he was semi retired, and was twenty - he had done a lot in his day, eventing, dressage etc, and was very well schooled, but she just wanted a safe hacking partner. She had to sell him to a dealer less than a year later as her marraige broke up and she could not afford to keep him. That was a few years ago now. I am going to try and get hold of her and see if she has any pictures, or more info on his brand, but I have to say, as soon as I saw the picture I was sure it was Harry. I will do some digging for you.


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## nativetyponies (27 August 2010)

OMW!

So the 87 might relate to his year of birth then?

He does look older than the OP suggested


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## Cuffey (27 August 2010)

Loss of use is an L in a circle

Have a look at brands in this link

http://www.horsedata.co.uk/horse_brands.htm


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## nativetyponies (27 August 2010)

this is like stag horns..

Baden Wurttemburg:

Pferdezuchtverband Baden-Württemberg e.V.
Heinrich-Baumann-Straße 1-3
D-70190 Stuttgart
Tel: 0049-7 11 - 16 65 50   
Fax: 0049-7 11 - 1 66 55 20

Pferdesportverband Baden-Württemberg

The branding numbers on the horses left hindquarters are part of the life identity number of the horse. For example:

Life identity number: DE 473 73207 32 09
DE - Country of origin
473- Association within the country of origin (473 Baden-Württemberg, for horses born before 2000, 373)
73207- a random number
32 - branding number (random)
09 - Year of birth
The life identity number is unique for every horse.


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## odd1 (27 August 2010)

loss of use is a freeze mark brand, i think the OP is meaning that the brand is a breed brand ie hot branded 
hope you find out the info you want about him


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## brighteyes (27 August 2010)

Whatever he's done, whoever he belonged to and however old he is, take good care of him and do the right thing by him.  It sounds like it's about time someone did.  From what you say, you love him to distraction anyway and I hope you find only good news.  He has a very kind look about him and those who have let him down in the past should be ashamed of themselves.


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## alainax (27 August 2010)

Hes lucky to have found you - I hope yous have fun together!

On the age thing, I was told by mey vet, farrier and dentist that my horse was 15 ( same age as me at the sime). But one very experience yard owner said he was well into his twenties ( i thought she just didnt like me)

 He was fit healthy and I have many red ribbons and trophies from him






I rode him between the ages of 11 and 21 ( his and mine) and then retired him as I coulndt keep his condition up enough to ride. 
Last yeat his condition plummited and he had to be PTS, The vet said it was a testament to his long life and reckoned he was well into his 30's possibly early 40's!!!) 

So if the Vet and YO were correct, id been riding and competing him successfully from his 20's into his 30's. 

What im trying to say is, even if he does turn out to be older than you and other thought - It doesnt mean you wont have many hapy years together. 

One thign Ryan did have that ive not yet found in "younger" horses, is a deep sense of wisdom and knowledge. Like he knew the world inside out. He taught me to ride and bond with a horse the way no human could have. 

Good luck!


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## samandcasper (27 August 2010)

zoeshiloh said:



			I think I might know this horse, and I really, really hope I am wrong!! After I saw the picture I was going to ask you about his brand, and whether it had the number 8 in it!! Then just read above post... 

There was a horse kept at the same yard as Ben a few years back - he was the spitting image of your boy. He was called Harry. The lady bought him as he was semi retired, and was twenty - he had done a lot in his day, eventing, dressage etc, and was very well schooled, but she just wanted a safe hacking partner. She had to sell him to a dealer less than a year later as her marraige broke up and she could not afford to keep him. That was a few years ago now. I am going to try and get hold of her and see if she has any pictures, or more info on his brand, but I have to say, as soon as I saw the picture I was sure it was Harry. I will do some digging for you.
		
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AWWWWWW thts great this might not even be the same horse yet am im crying lol stupid me i really really hope its the same boy, dont worrie hes not in tht state now he bleeds me dry with his food and hay lol and i love him with a great passion there is no way any worries with him now ahhhh i hope it is .... i have a pic of his brands i will upload them and also a pic of our hacklast night.... casper does fit the discpriction he is still quite well schooled he knows everything i ask of him and is a wonderfull upbeat ride so not to sure on this age thing as hes only been in work a bit, i have also read up tht the numbers will be either age or foal number.... he lookes like a spanish horse when hes ridden and moves his legs like one ??? will upload ppics in a sec


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## samandcasper (27 August 2010)

alainax thank you and ur horse is lovley, and no way would i ever get rid of him because of his age he works perfectly when ridden not lazy or sluggish so im going to carry on riding him jump BUT only if he copes with it even if he was 11/13 or 30... he's my baby and an expensive one even if a pet only but hes worth every penny  xx


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## samandcasper (27 August 2010)

sorry to keep adding lol

the 87 is on its own on the left side and the horns l and number looks either 2 numbers or 3 and another number/letter xxx cant find the pics but will get some xx

from 3 days ago on our photoshoot






yesterdays hack/photoshoot






SMALL VID OF ME RIDING HIM B4 HIS BACK WAS DONE
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=60229&id=1619714984#!/video/video.php?v=1545942646449


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## samandcasper (27 August 2010)

thank you lee hes my baby <3


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## pixi (27 August 2010)

nativeponies said:



			this speaks volumes to me...

my guess would be is he came over from holland, possibly a meat market and the Dealer has spun you a yarn ..sadly, it happens quite often

Have a look at the H & H adverts online..they go back months.."if" he was bought from someone advertising in H & H then i'm pretty sure you'd find it.

Then i would get your vet to give him a real passport, as the one you have probably isn't even his.
		
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would have a chip if imported


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## pixi (27 August 2010)

the is a british trekenan society with 2 stags horns n a  v under them .just yhaoo horse brands n a web site comes up with all the warmblood brands think if he was imported he would have a chip implant.unless  the vet missed it


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## samandcasper (27 August 2010)

his marking looks like this (L)  the L is in the centre not below but have a few poss bout 5 things on each ( and ) then a number im sure 1st 1 is a 3 cant make other one then other side is just 87 nothing else,

i have tried googling it but havent found his ones i have seen one slight like it but it's.....  c) and the ) has the horn things of the side but nothing else xx


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## SpruceRI (27 August 2010)

A loss of use mark is an 'L' inside a circle.

The other numbers may be his freeze brand.  

He may well have been dapple grey or dark grey when he was marked and therefore it would've showed up better.  As he's aged the brand wouldn't show up as much unless he was re-freezemarked and the brand was held on longer to completely kill off the hair folicles and therefore  make the numbers completely bald.

When I had my Shetland originally freezemarked on his back he was blue roan, but as he aged he went white and you could no longer see the mark, so I had him re-done with the same mark on his shoulder, but this time those marks are bald.

Can you send us a photo of the brand?


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## samandcasper (28 August 2010)

yep will get pic's today when i go yard xx


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## TallyHo123 (28 August 2010)

Sorry dont know anything, but he sounds like he has gone to a fab home 
good on you and he's stunning


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## wildwest (28 August 2010)

any news zoeshilo ? sounded promising.


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## JaneyP (28 August 2010)

Sorry no info here just wanted to say how nice it is that he has found such a loving home with you, and it seems to me that it doesnt matter his age with you and that your love is unconditional such a lovely story; and one lucky boy he looks so happy with you xx


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## jhoward (29 August 2010)

he looks like a lipizzaner to me..  they often carry the l brand depending on where born etc. have a google but if he is he may well be traceable.


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## samandcasper (29 August 2010)

JaneyP said:



			Sorry no info here just wanted to say how nice it is that he has found such a loving home with you, and it seems to me that it doesnt matter his age with you and that your love is unconditional such a lovely story; and one lucky boy he looks so happy with you xx
		
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 thank you janey  i couldnt care if he was 100 and was costing me a bomb in vet cost he is trualy a dream boy and i do love him so much its unreal i've only had him 3 half months lol still not to sureon his age as had someone else look at his teeth yesterday and they have said with out me saying anything to be about 12  xxx im not to sure if i posted it any where in this post but i have allways said from day 1 and more so when i ride him or watched my friend ride him he reminds me so much of a spanish horse now hes more fitter he works better and he keeps doing this weird thing with his leg when going into canter like he lifts it up and hold its up then graces of into a lovely canter xx i will google now see what i can find xx


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## brighteyes (29 August 2010)

I'm still hoping for brand pics.


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## spottydottypony (29 August 2010)

What a nice story.  It doesnot matter how old he is as long as you love and want him.. His condition has improved as you can see by the pics.  Similar thing happened to me.  I got a 16 yrold horse on loan really poor condtion, but a wonderful horse.  Got his teeth done and the dentist said he was more like 26!  I was shocked but we still hacked out until he injured his hock in the field two years ago.. I would never part with him (had him 7 years).  His owner hasnt seen him in 7 years when she discovered how old he really was (im sure she knew).  Good luck with the tracing he looks a lovely horse x


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## samandcasper (29 August 2010)

i will get the pic's 2 night i promise lol my phone died last night and me loan girl didnt get down till late so had no other phone,,

thats right spottydottypony, love him millions and wanted him from the second i walked onthe yard where igot him from lol xx


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## RuthnMeg (29 August 2010)

jhoward said:



			he looks like a lipizzaner to me..  they often carry the l brand depending on where born etc. have a google but if he is he may well be traceable.
		
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I agree with this.

Whatever his past, its a credit to you to take on such a lovely looking horse. All the best.


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## ISHmad (30 August 2010)

Have just seen your latest photos Samandcasper.  What a change in him!  You are working wonders with your gorgeous boy. Wish all horses could be lucky enough to find such a caring owner as you.


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## CeeBee (31 August 2010)

Any more news yet? Would be so lovely to hear a happy ending (or in this case - new beginning).


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## snopuma (31 August 2010)

snopuma.. can u tell me why u think he looks in his 20s ? i have a 24 year old sec d mare and ppl mistake her for a 10 year old on how she looks and rides jumps ect, u have to remember he so under nurished and underweight its going to make him look old i thought the same when he was delivered and i had the run to do as i please with him but i have fed him on oil, garlic chaff, freeze pony nuts and blue chip twice a day but for the 1st 3ish weks he had 4 smaller meals of tht a day with 2-3 huge haynets bulging with hay every night... tht wasnt ment to come across as me being rude xx[/QUOTE]

Its just that I have a 30 year old and yours has the old dips above the eyes, its very telltale of an older horse and mine didn't get his dips until he was 24, that with the very light coat, which a horse who is grey would be 15+, also ask any vet teeth at 12 to 25 are hard to tell, hope this doesn't offend, its purely observational, and we have all heard of horses turning out to be much older at some point, I truly hope I am very wrong and your horse has just to return to optimum weight and health, good luck xxx


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## zoeshiloh (31 August 2010)

Quick Update...

I have looked through what photo's I have on the PC and cannot find a single one with Harry in - I think that the majority of photos I took at that time were before I got a digital camera, so have asked my parents to look through the box of photos still in my old bedroom at their house.

I am trying to track down Harry's previous owner (that I knew) and show her the pictures/try and find out if she knows more about these brands, but so far am hitting dead ends, as everyone I speak to doesn't know where she ended up. 

I will keep searching though, and update you all when I know anything. It might not be the same horse at all, but they sound and look so similar!


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## JessandCharlie (31 August 2010)

Could the brand be a farmkey thing?


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## The Virgin Dubble (6 September 2010)

samandcasper said:



			he does have some very weird brandings on him but its under where the saddle goes on both sides this is why i think he was intended for meet one side looks like 2 stag horns and in the middle a L then after tht is says 2 numbers then on the other side it says 87
		
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Is the brand like this?


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## LEXIS-MAGIC (7 September 2010)

As far as the microchip thing goes, I do know a very unscrupulous dealer who imports (mostly meat) horses from Belgium as riding horses and scans then removes the chips himself, he knows when and where to dock so he doesnt get checked and has even transported injured horses and stallions with no paperwork. He has also been known to rechip and repassport horses with ones he has kept out of the horses he has previously sent for meat. Some horses had chips and passports for one age and breed and brands for another, unfortunately there is still a market over here for them as many novice owners dont seem to check. 
WHW had been informed but he changes his lorry regularly and he wasnt caught as it is still going on.
Sorry for the waffle, my point being, the lack of microchip doesnt necessarily mean he hasnt been imported.
Well done for doing such a good job with him x


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## Unpaid Groom (7 September 2010)

Ditto the false chip thing, happens all too often, they implant saddle or dog chips 

He looks fantastic though, you've done him proud, good luck with your search


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## Doncella (9 September 2010)

This horse has now got the owner he deserves and I applaud you.
However was there not a similar case reported in H&H re a coloured Dutch mare and I think she was blind in one eye and had been badly injured sustaining broken ribs at one point, had been sold as much younger than she was and had been purchased originally at a meat sale in Holland then fetched up with a kind home over here.
Dealers who do this are plain evil.


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## EAST KENT (15 September 2010)

Looks a def. Lippizaner to me,love to hear the end to this tale of mystery


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## Fantasy_World (21 September 2010)

After reading through this thread I too am intrigued as to who this horse is. He is a lovely boy and the OP has done exceptionally well judging by the photos.
I can understand why she has fallen in love with him. He is very lucky to have a kind owner who loves him and will do whatever they can to give him a good home.
I would like to wish her all the very best for the future x


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## Tinseltoes (21 September 2010)

Cazee34 said:



			After reading through this thread I too am intrigued as to who this horse is. He is a lovely boy and the OP has done exceptionally well judging by the photos.
I can understand why she has fallen in love with him. He is very lucky to have a kind owner who loves him and will do whatever they can to give him a good home.
I would like to wish her all the very best for the future x
		
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well-said


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## samandcasper (22 September 2010)

awww thank you everyone it means alot it really does, im not just saying this because of u all being horse lovers to BUT he is my world, and is the best dessision i have made in a long time <3 i have the pic's of his branding im going to try mums comp now and i also have some new ones of my baby i will put up see what u think now as these are up to date  

im having some confidance issues with him at the mo, few weeks ago i was riding in the school and a lady with a horse box in tow sped past not seeing us and scared the life out of him and since then hes been nervouse and wont move from the gate, i had some advise from a lovely lady last night who does parelli and is learning healing ect, and it worked i managed to get him away from the gate for a few trots lol she also said he is showing black and wont talk to her, im going to have the proper lady out shes a spritulist and healer as i'd love to know if he can tell me whats happened to him  ect and what he wants from me as his owner now, as the git bag gets away with everything as i just cant bring my self to tell him off i see it as when he drags me to his food, what if he got his beating scars from doing tht to who ever hurt him he might see me as the same and i cant bear for him to feel like tht ever again in his life xxxx thanks again for reading, me reading them last few post chocked me and brought a tear to my eye


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## Snowysadude (23 September 2010)

samandcasper do you have pics of the branding lol? Hes a lovely horse


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## samandcasper (24 September 2010)

YESSSSS i finay have them lol mums comp wasnt working prop.... right 

this is the (L) 35 or 36 OR 38 CANT QUITE TELL WHAT ONE on one side 













THEN THIS IS THE OTHER SIDE THE 78






AND JUST BECAUSE HES SO HANDSOME <3 WELL WITH OUT THE STABLE STAINS LOL


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## beeswax (24 September 2010)

What a lovely story and i hope you find out all you need to know about him.  Do you think his bit is a tad high up in his mouth each photo of him he seems to be gagging a bit like the bit could be dropped a hole or two. Good luck!!


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## Sanolly (24 September 2010)

Wow what a difference in his weight! Well done! I wouldn't let him get away with things though as you will end up with a big horse walking over the top of you! You don't have to be harsh just firm but fair (like you would your son!)


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## JessandCharlie (24 September 2010)

Is it worth asking in the breeding section about his branding? They might be able to tell you more!


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## samandcasper (24 September 2010)

in the last pic hes munching his hay but i will drop the bit see what happens he pulls faces when i turn him left and right so might well be its to tight  xx will let u know if it works lol and thank you beeswax and sanolly  xx x


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## jokadoka (1 October 2010)

Definitely looks like the L is the loss of use branding. I've come across one or two of these over the years and it looks identical to those. Any more news on your progress?
Good for you for doing such a fab job with him!


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## Nicki85 (1 October 2010)

Agree the L with a circle round it is loss of use.  I know a guy who had his horse branded loss of use as it can no longer event past BE90.  Horse is now on loan as a dressage school master.  

Def agree- he is a sweet looking chap!


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## samandcasper (1 October 2010)

i've been told tht it has to be a full round circle to be the loss of use????

he does have a sort of dent on the right side of his bum cheek but when the vet checked him over she said he was ok and didnt comment on the branding being loss of use, thnk i will give the vet a call see what they think again.

 thank you and  yer hes doing really well im riding him again and hes working nicely not cantering him for a bit gonna hack and bit of walk and trot to build his muscles up  will upload some vids and pics later


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## appylass (1 October 2010)

My brother has a horse freezemarked loss of use. The circle is complete and clear. The 'sides' of the mark on your boy look to have bits coming off them and it doesn't look to be a complete circle? The 'L' is the same but not the outer 'circle'. I wonder if LOU marks are done differently abroad maybe?


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## Alibear (1 October 2010)

Recent UK Loss of Use brands are like this





You have to have a full normal brand along side the L , if they're already branded you can just have the L added and they file it against the existing brand.
This one was done 4 years ago.


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## samandcasper (1 October 2010)

branding i have found so far are from abroad but they still state that the circle must be full and whole way round the L ..... all i have found is tht his brading could mean that he is a lapazzanar i found on the net xxx


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## traceyann (2 October 2010)

my horse is branded loss of use and people are right full circle and L in middle but if their white it dosent stay my horse has lost all his branding even clipped you can not see he is loss of use thank god im not one of those people who would sell him as my horse is sound but will never jump again


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## milesjess (3 October 2010)

Sorry I don't know anything about your boy but just wanted to say well done  

He is gorgeous and looks so much better and happier now, he's a very lucky boy.

Wishing you both many happy, fun years together


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## samandcasper (4 October 2010)

thank you milesjess


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## Ted's mum (6 October 2010)

well done...does look like Loss of Use mark tbh...Ted has a LOU on him and its exatly the same...


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## 3DE (6 October 2010)

Any more news? He;s a nice looking chap however old he is


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## TallyHo123 (6 October 2010)

Can't help but well done on taking him on, looks like he will turn out to be a fab horse & I hope you have many years of happiness with him


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## applecart14 (6 October 2010)

samandcasper said:



			hi everyone thanks for reading this i've recently brough a amazing horse from some dealers in kent who said they got my boy from horse and hound and he was free to good home but only because he couldnt be cared or paid for, he was in an awful state cuts that look like knife slashed and he was a bag of bones, he is getting there now and is so loving and perfect manners but the dealer didnt have a name or really much info just he is a belguim warmblood but still im not to sure he could be something diff 11 years ish 16,2ish grey gelding i brought him as was looking for a grey any way and i fell in love with him soon as i saw him as hes such a good boy in everyway and is lovely to ride now hes back to his weight just really hope someone who owned this wonderfull boy or knows of my baby can get in touch as i am despreate to know more about him after his recent hard life i dont want to do things with him and if previous he has had accident or what nots hope this pic can help me **just to let u know he is in a very loving home is my best friend and is well cared for by me my fiance and son he dosnt want for nothing and wont be sold on** PLEASE GET IN TOUCH IF U KNOW ANYTHING...

THE DAY HE ARRIVED 





2 WEEKS AFTER GETTING HIM





AWWW I LOVE HIM SO MUCH





 1ST RIDE





Click to expand...

I cant help you i'm afraid other than to wish you the very best.  He is lucky to have found such a lovely person to love him for the rest of his days.  The only piece of advice I could give you is that should he become nappy or naughty do please get him checked out be a good physio as from the photos he requires a lot of building up physically and could well have problems as a result of his confirmation and physique.  Judging by how obvious it is that you love this boy I am sure you will get help if necessary.  Good luck x


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## Doncella (6 October 2010)

samandcasper said:



			YESSSSS i finay have them lol mums comp wasnt working prop.... right 

this is the (L) 35 or 36 OR 38 CANT QUITE TELL WHAT ONE on one side 













THEN THIS IS THE OTHER SIDE THE 78






AND JUST BECAUSE HES SO HANDSOME <3 WELL WITH OUT THE STABLE STAINS LOL






Click to expand...

This branding looks quite rough, he's not Eastern European, Latvian or Lithuanian, just thinking out of the box here, but well done you for giving him such a loving home.  He has a very gentle face.


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## Queenbee (12 October 2010)

Hi, found this:

http://tractortracks.blogspot.com/2010/04/breed-all-about-it-lipizzaners.html

it says:

Lipizzaners are marked by their brands, on the left cheek, the brand of descent, usually an L denoting a purebred Lipizzaner, on the left withers, a letter denoting the bloodline of the sire (out of the six classical bloodlines) and a symbol denoting the bloodline of the dam (out of the same six bloodlines) and the left hip carrying the brand of the stud at which the horse was foaled. The Piber stud's mark is a P beneath a crown. The only brand on the right side of the horse is the foal registry number, and all brands, excepting the cheek brand and the hip brand, are covered by the saddle.


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## overworked&underpaid (20 October 2010)

I was just wondering whether anyone had managed to identify this horse.  I was intrigued to read the whole thread. As a newbie, it was great to see how everyone gets involved.
Thought I would ask samandcasper for the latest!!


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## DaisyOscar (22 October 2010)

Unfortunately I don't know him but would like to wish you both lots of happiness together. There's something really loveable about his expressions! I'm sure he feels like he's landed in clover now!


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## Tinseltoes (22 October 2010)

Hi anymore info yet? You have a beautiful boy there and your a wonderful mummy to him.Well done!!!


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## ossy (22 October 2010)

Just seen your post.  What  a lovely horse and how lovely is it he has got such a great home.  I don't know him but the markings definently look like some kind of lipizzaner branding.  If you havn't already try this website or contact them they may be able to help. 

http://www.lipizzaner.org.uk/lipizzaner.htm


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## kayclover (31 October 2010)

hi 
he looks like a horse i used to work with a few yrs ago he was called solo does he have 2 lumps at each side of his mouth where the bit goes?


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## trewq (5 November 2010)

pixi said:



			would have a chip if imported
		
Click to expand...

Not necessarily.

It appears to be quite an old horse, so could have been imported before microchips became standard.


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## WishfulThinker (6 November 2010)

I dont think that brand is actually any breed marker.  I wouldnt be surprised if it was done to give him a number in he was imported for meat - if that is the case.  I remember even back in like 94 the loss of usebranding was a circle with an L in it - - but then if you do think the number is 87 - it could be a change it was back then. 

Could you maybe ask an insurance company?  They may know?


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## samandcasper (1 December 2010)

kayclover said:



			hi 
he looks like a horse i used to work with a few yrs ago he was called solo does he have 2 lumps at each side of his mouth where the bit goes?
		
Click to expand...

OMG!!  YES HE DOES like his toung is pocking out the left and right side   can u email me please ohhhh im so excited i have goose bumps, or my mob and home numbers are 01268557377... 07899888009 if u text a number over to me and ur ok with me calling u i will call u back........

thanks everyone again for ur lovely comments sorry i havn't wrote back in a while my mums laptop was playing up i have some more lovely photos of my baby i will upload, i do the odd bit of modling and a photographer offered me a shoot with him and it was wicked


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## Luci07 (1 December 2010)

Take your private numbers off pronto!!! ask the OP to pm you to safeguard you!


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## samandcasper (1 December 2010)

JUST A FEW OF MY FAVS AS THERE ARE FAR TO MANY LOL


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## samandcasper (1 December 2010)

thanks, didnt think of tht just got to excitited :| and now i cant edit my post ???


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## Doncella (1 December 2010)

Whatever his past he is in safe hands now and he looks super.


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## samandcasper (1 December 2010)

Doncella said:



			Whatever his past he is in safe hands now and he looks super.
		
Click to expand...

 thank you xx


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## Bearsmum (1 December 2010)

I just love that first photo, he's grinning like the cat that finally got the cream! Bless what a lovely boy you've got.

JDx


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## boobear (1 December 2010)

Sorry to add to this, if the horse called Solo was from near Peterborough, its not him I'm afraid. that horse belonged to a friend of mine and has long since passed away

Just to say, you've done a fantastic job with him well done


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## samandcasper (2 December 2010)

thank you Bearsmum  hes my beautiful boy lol such a charactor as you can see xx

thanks boobear  no need to say sorry, any info good or bad is important to me  xx


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## Princess P (2 December 2010)

What a happy ending for the horse - I'm glad he has found you. Someone told me a quote once that 'every horse deserves at least once in his life to be loved by a little girl' and I think it's very true! I hope you find out his background, I am very intrigued now!
x


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## JessandCharlie (2 December 2010)

WOW! What a difference!! He looks fab, well done! x


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## Sadiemay (2 December 2010)

I have followed this thread with much interest and I really hope you find out his history at some point.  

But if not then its not the end of the world....You have your future together and thats whats important 

I have to say he looks like such a noble and wisened old boy, I really like him alot and you have done wonders with him, in the last pics he looks amazing... he really is a real credit to you 

I wish you lots of happy times together as I would suspect he hasnt had an easy life so I am VERY pleased he has ended up in your care, you obviously love him very much and I am sure he is counting his blessings in finding a home with you.

Do keep us updated on his progress wont you? I am rooting for you both!

Sadiemay


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## samandcasper (3 December 2010)

thank you all, and yes deffo Sadiemay, hes my baby i love his more than anything in this world, well after me son lol but u are right even if i dont find out anything what i know of him as it is, is far enough after the **** life he had before i got him and the cuts the scars and the drastic weight loss, hes so loving and trusting and an amazing charactor my son and brother who's 6 and 8 can do anything with him and for how big he is he never over powers me or the kids xxx and i will deffo keep u all updated xx


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## ISHmad (4 December 2010)

Had a peep on your thread hoping there might be some news about his past.  But I agree that actually it's the here and now and his future which matters.  He is one exceptionally lucky horse as I've said before and I'm so glad the two of you found each other.  Please will you keep us updated with photos too, I think the transformation in him is incredible.  A massive well done to you.


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## samandcasper (4 December 2010)

ISHmad said:



			Had a peep on your thread hoping there might be some news about his past.  But I agree that actually it's the here and now and his future which matters.  He is one exceptionally lucky horse as I've said before and I'm so glad the two of you found each other.  Please will you keep us updated with photos too, I think the transformation in him is incredible.  A massive well done to you.
		
Click to expand...


*i would love to find just something out about him even if it was just as little as his name and age and thank you again that means alot, and yes i will deffo keep u updated, a few ppl want to be kept updated, i have a facebook and its mostly all about him lol add me if u like im sam Tcup siequien or if u cant find it put my email in the search  ryansamandscott@hotmail.com  *


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## samandcasper (16 December 2010)

*kayclover any more info please xxx*


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## Tinseltoes (17 December 2010)

Hi
Any news yet?


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## DebbieCG (17 December 2010)

samandcasper - just to say I hope you find out your boy's history - keep plugging at it and hopefully you will find out.  You are doing a great job and he looks very happy and loved in his new home with you.

Just to say I have sent you a quick pm about some info on branding which I came across from the website HorseData. co.uk.  It may not be relevant, but there seems to be a fair bit of info on different European brands on the link I've sent you.  I'm a firm believer that every little bit of info helps, anyway.  

Good luck and well done once again for giving your lovely horse such a good home.


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## DebbieCG (17 December 2010)

Also have you tried a thread in the main H&H forum, perhaps you could ask if anyone recognises the brand style on your horse and where they may originate from?

Also try posting details on the Intelligent Horsemanship website - alot of knowledgeable horsey people on there, that could perhaps shed a bit of light on his branding.


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## samandcasper (17 December 2010)

thank you debbiecg, i will keep looking i have to its driving me mad lol just want to know loads about him  and thats great thank you i will have a read and im just off to yard now so i will post on them places when i get back thanks for ur help means alot xxxxxx


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## firehead181 (16 February 2011)

hi samandcasper,
                 ive just read all your threads about you and your casper, what an intriguing story. did you happen to find anymore info about him? i bought my horse 6years ago from a dealer, he was very under-nourished much to the extent of your boy (although he didnt have any nasty cuts or anything-whoever done that to him should be ashamed of themselves). he didnt have a passport (you didnt need them then) or papers (the dealer said he had a drawer full of papers and to take my pick- which i did not do). but he was very head-shy and we had a lot of trust issues with him with things like putting his headcollar on, picking out his feet and putting his saddle and bridle on. he wasnt being difficult, he was just scared (so scared even when he was the last one in the field he hated putting his nose in the headcollar, he pulled his head away as if i was going to smack him). it took me a while but with a lot of work he learnt to trust me. he also has a brand mark on his near-side hindquarter, i have been trying for AGES to see if anyone can figure out what it is and none of the brand marks on horsedata.co.uk match (its like a zangershiede stud mark mixed with belgium sports horse). so i know how you feel!hope you and casper are well and it would be good to know if you got anywhere?


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## Wigglypigs (27 April 2011)

Bump


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## samandcasper (21 June 2011)

firehead181 sorry itys took so long i totaly forgot about the posts.... still so far havent got anywhere, have 1 little lead of a young girl thth might know him but dont know yet need to se the pics ect... its heart breaking isnt it.. casper still does this with the head collor to ppl now not me hes fine with that and he was fine from the 1st day i put tack on his and has been a star being ridden ect.. hipe u find out aswell, i will never give up just gotta find the right little lead lol xxxx


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## shelley8697 (5 July 2011)

One of my horses had very similar branding, both sides with numbers and letter on one side and two single numbers of the other size.

She was a Czech horse registered with the KPWN.  

3 letters are the stud reference (prob in Czech letters, why they look like horns!), and the number on the same side is the year of birth.
the two numbers on the other side were to do with the mare. (I think from my crap memory)!

Hope this helps.


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## Lowen Ki (5 July 2011)

If it was a LOU mark, wouldn't there be records of him being marked etc? When I had my mare done there was loads of paperwork with the company who did it, could be worth checking out? Was it FarmKey or am I confused? Hope you find out some clues soon and would be great to continue to see pictures of him - well done


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## dunthing (5 July 2011)

No info from me I'm afraid but I just wanted to say that he's a very lucky boy to have found his new Mum. He looks so different now, not just his weight but the look in his eye. You've made him happy and that's priceless. Well done to you and I hope you find out all about him.


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## joy (6 July 2011)

I was wondering what had happened to you two, good to know that you're still happy together.


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## samandcasper (22 July 2011)

shelley8697,, do u have any pics of them, or any website i can go have a look round please...

Lowen Ki... not registered with them as LOU x

dunthing & joy.. thanks and yep were still here and together, alltho he is on full loan for few more months till i have my baby then hes back with mummy.. will upload new pics now  xx


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## Leah3horses (22 July 2011)

Hi Sam..what a heartwearming story...I know it's wrong for dealers to do this with horses, but, at the end of the day whoever it was did give him free to a good home..and if he did come from the meat markets, which does seem probable..I think he was meant to be with Sam and her family..otherwise he would have gone to his fate at the market. He has such a wise and noble look in his eyes..and in the pic when you are on his neck cuddling him Sam..he shouts Lippizaner to me!Not so much in the other pics,but definitely that one.

Did you know you can get animals DNA tested?Not sure how much it is for horses nowadays, but my friend had his dog DNA tested for £50. If you go down this route at least you would know his breeding for sure..and then probably be able to link up the various brands with the breed Stud Book.  I bought what was described as a TBx, I thought she looked like a Selle Francais...she had a very faint lip tattoo ,I did some digging and I was right, got all her breeding. Has Casper got a faint tattoo inside his lower lip by any chance? There are 2 avenues to go down.

Casper is adorable, there is something very special about him, can see that just from the pics. Will add you on FB and look forward to seeing how he gets on


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## samandcasper (22 July 2011)

thanks, have commented back to u on facebook... i have been thinking of the dna but cant find anywhere to book it with xx


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## LaurenM (22 July 2011)

Without being rude - but if he's happy and looked after what does it matter about his history?

It's always nice to have the history I know but it won't change what you have together now..if that makes sense?


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## samandcasper (23 July 2011)

LaurenM... i need to know because of what i can do with him ect he has few scars and a dent on his right bum cheek he runs out of jumps ect so i need to know if hes had accident ect so i dont try to jump him as hes so scared of some things i dont want to put any past bad memories on him plus i dont even know his name xx


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## VLHIEASTON (23 July 2011)

Just wanted to give you a massive 'well done' for giving him a lovely, kind new home.

Be proud  x


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## Girlracer (23 July 2011)

I spent ages trying to find info on an old horse of mine, he had 2 numbers on either side of his back. One was the stud number and the other the foal number, after som digging i found that those brands were what they used for the Polish Warmbloods, i then managed to contact the studbook and eventually got a reply and got a tonne of info on him. Even down to where he was bred in Poland. 

It did take me a long time, but it is possible! If you send me all the info i don't mind having a dig for it as i quite enjoyed finding my boys history, i knew nothing about him before that like you not even his name!


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## pheline (23 July 2011)

horse now called Asty by any chance?


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## HOWEN (27 July 2011)

He looks the complete spit of my friends two Orlov Trotters! She sold them over a year ago I know they are branded up but not sure what with. I will ask the question.  Lovely horse by the way.


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## samandcasper (28 July 2011)

VLHIEASTON. thank you 

Girlracer... inbox me all the info u need and as much as i can give u i will  thanks..

pheline... i have named him casper but who knows he could have had that name at one point lol 

HOWEN.. that would be great thank you  

xxxxx


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## Naryafluffy (29 July 2011)

Somebody earlier had mentioned Polish horses, I managed to find out this about the branding, might help.
Polish Warmblood (Wielkopolski):

Polish foals born in a national stud farm have a numerical brand under the saddle:

The right side is the number of stud farm.

The left side is the foal's number.

Foals from private breeders (regional breeding) are branded on the left leg (thigh).


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## fatpiggy (29 July 2011)

My mare has a dint in her right buttock - I know exactly how it was caused!  A very nasty mare double-barrelled her. The result was a melon-sized lump which once it had all gone left the dint.


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## samandcasper (29 July 2011)

Naryafluffy.... do u have any links to anywhere tht i can maybe contact them with his numbers xx


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## aintgotnohay (29 July 2011)

To the OP ive not read all the posts but did you have a valid passport with him??? that would tell you his oold owners.hope you didnt purchase him without one.


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## samandcasper (30 July 2011)

aintgotnohay
 yes i did but the 1st 4 pages with all info on him and old owners are ripped out of it.. there isnt 1 word at all in it x


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## Naryafluffy (1 August 2011)

samandcasper said:



			Naryafluffy.... do u have any links to anywhere tht i can maybe contact them with his numbers xx
		
Click to expand...

It was someone I work with (who is polish) that said some of the horses had this, I've managed to confirm through http://www.horsedata.co.uk/horse_brands.htm this is the address from the website (there isn't a picture of the brand, but the details are just above the Rhienland brand looks like antlers)
Polish Warmblood (Wielkopolski):

Polish foals born in a  national stud farm have a numerical brand under the saddle:

The right side is the number of stud farm.

The left side is the foal's number.

Foals from private breeders (regional breeding) are branded on the left leg (thigh).



Okregowy Zwiazek Hodowcow Koni
Association of Horse Breeders
Podwale 23
00-261 Warszawa
Tel. 022-8312178


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## samandcasper (2 August 2011)

ahh yeah i found this page out in a random google search lol just cant find a pic of his brand anywhere, only place i did was in 1st few post when a ady has the same on her horse and thts what leads me to believe me tht its the same a hungirain lipp xx


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## samandcasper (6 August 2011)

anyone who comented recenlty have any news xx


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## tinap (7 August 2011)

Have you seen this forum & similar marks? http://www.enlightenedequitation.co...f8a27272f954df6ed0433c3072c9725&topic=42703.0
Really hope you find out about him. I have full passport & contact with previous owner & it still drives me nuts that I can't find out more!! Good luck xx


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## DebbieCG (7 August 2011)

samandcasper - your boy is so lovely and glad he's got such a good home with you.

I have posted once or twice on this thread, but it was just to say again have you perhaps tried putting photos showing him and his brand on the Intelligent Horsemanship site, or perhaps try getting in touch with Tracing Equines to see if they have a suitable place on their site where you could ask if anyone recognises his brand and what type of breed he is.

Sorry if you've already done these things, think I mentioned IH site previously.  Or how about trying to show him on a Belgium horse site, we sometimes have visitors on the H&H forum, so I'm sure they'd welcome you or direct you to a helpful site from another European country.

Best of luck with finding the info you're looking for.


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## Naryafluffy (8 August 2011)

tinap555 said:



			Have you seen this forum & similar marks? http://www.enlightenedequitation.co...f8a27272f954df6ed0433c3072c9725&topic=42703.0
Really hope you find out about him. I have full passport & contact with previous owner & it still drives me nuts that I can't find out more!! Good luck xx
		
Click to expand...

The pictures of the branding look very similar to the Hungarian Lippi, wonder if the OP has contacted the person offering to help with the Hungarian stud book, or if this was another dead end as this was posted back in December?


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## samandcasper (8 August 2011)

tinap555 said:



			Have you seen this forum & similar marks? http://www.enlightenedequitation.co...f8a27272f954df6ed0433c3072c9725&topic=42703.0
Really hope you find out about him. I have full passport & contact with previous owner & it still drives me nuts that I can't find out more!! Good luck xx
		
Click to expand...


yeah this post was created by someone to help me lol i joined to post my comment but after being accepted i still cant post comments ect ...


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## samandcasper (8 August 2011)

DebbieCG... thanks again  yeah have them few ppl on my facebook and have been getting bit of help from them

BUT!!! I'VE HAD A MESSAGE OFF SOMEONE FROM A FACEBOOK GROUP THT OWNED HIM MESSGE SAYS......

Hi, his name is or was bobby it was changed to winter. A lady at my yard got him from Tom in October 2009 he was a right state she did not get on with him at all and just stop coming up the yard.he got really Sick needed the vet but the women just did not Care, so I ended up looking after him, got the vet out he had a chest infection, worms, very bad feet and very under weight. By January he looked alot better we started light exercise but he had a bad back had the back lady out and after a few visits big improvement. I can honestly say that he was the sweetest horse so so loving in Feb the women turned up out of the blue after 4 months of me and yard owner trying to get hold of her and after me spending more then £2000 to get him better she said she was moving him to Devon with her sister who had land down there. I was so angry and heart broken offered to buy him but she said no. I phoned the RSPCA as I really did not think she should be allowed to have him after just leaving him but they said nothing they could do. So she took him. I had no idea she sent him back to Tom that is where she got him from in the 1 st please why on earth not just sale him to me. Why put him through all that again. I managed to get hold of his old owners he came from a riding school in Norfolk but they sold him at some horse sales as they said he was not a novice ride they said he used to buck. I also saw photos of him when they had him he used to have a very long mane but they cut it of as they said he had sweet itch. I cried so much over him i can't believe that women I am so happy he is ok.


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## gingerthing (8 August 2011)

I wonder which riding school in norfolk he was from?


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## DebbieCG (9 August 2011)

Hi again samandcasper  Just had a glance at some of the very helpful replies here although haven't read all the thread, so sorry if I've missed any suggestions, but have you had him checked for a microchip by a vet?

One poster mentioned about checking with the (2) UK freezebranding companies here to see if they might have an idea what the brand looks like - they would be very knowleageable of European brands too i would imagine and perhaps could point you in the right direction. 

I think there was also a suggestion that his brand looks like part of a herd branding and that may have been mentionioned on the other sites you have him listed?  It is such an unusual and crude brand, it does almost look home done.

I'm sure if you persist long enough you will find answers here on H&H or elsewhere.  I recall there was someone from Belgium or Holland that came on the forum looking to see if anyone knew where her previous show jumping horse was and the forum came up with the current owner and video clips of the horse competing on the show jumping circuit!


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## DebbieCG (9 August 2011)

gingerthing said:



			I wonder which riding school in norfolk he was from?
		
Click to expand...

Also hope you can glean some info from the person you has messaged you on FB.  If you can find out from them which riding school/owners who had him for a while that would be great


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## samandcasper (9 August 2011)

had him scaned but didnt come up with anything she was a traniee vet so may have missed it, going to try againwhen vet is out next month, 

gingerthing.. this is my next mission now.. have had mre info aswell from lady with 4 other messages  xx


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## KrujaaLass (9 August 2011)

What a sad story. So glad he is in a good home now


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## gingerthing (12 August 2011)

samandcasper said:



			had him scaned but didnt come up with anything she was a traniee vet so may have missed it, going to try againwhen vet is out next month, 

gingerthing.. this is my next mission now.. have had mre info aswell from lady with 4 other messages  xx
		
Click to expand...

Myself and others on here are in norfolk so keep us posted if you do find out


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## samandcasper (12 August 2011)

gingerthing said:



			Myself and others on here are in norfolk so keep us posted if you do find out 

Click to expand...

dont suppose u can give me any names of ones u know, or is that a long shot lol xx


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## gingerthing (13 August 2011)

Weston park (formerly Top farm untill the late 90s), keswick riding school, red hall, manor farm, there was a meadow farm rs which closed in the late 90s. I think there was a Brampton stables (?). 

There are other riding schools around here but these are the main ones I know of


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## samandcasper (15 August 2011)

gingerthing said:



			Weston park (formerly Top farm untill the late 90s), keswick riding school, red hall, manor farm, there was a meadow farm rs which closed in the late 90s. I think there was a Brampton stables (?). 

There are other riding schools around here but these are the main ones I know of 

Click to expand...


wicked thanks i'll google them for numbers and give them a call all they can say is no he werent there lol xx whoo hoo woman on a mission lol x


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## samandcasper (15 August 2011)

soz dont have a pen to hand so using this as a bit of paper lol

http://keswickridingstables.co.uk/ 
01603 451526

Red Hall Liveries Beeston Road, Beeston, Norwich, Norfolk, NR12, Tel : 01603 417174


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## wallykissmas (17 August 2011)

Strumpshaw riding school is Norfolk. if you could find out roughly where in Norfolk might enable a fe people to think of the older schools that might have closed down.


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## samandcasper (20 August 2011)

thank you will try, the lady hasnt replied back in a few days so just waiting now xx


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## DebbieCG (22 September 2011)

Hi Samandcasper

Hope things are progressing with finding out more about your horse.

I have just sent you a pm, as some time ago I saw a German based equine establishment website that has branches in other European countries too, so I sent an email to them asking if they may be able to help see where your horse may originate from.  

They have just replied to me, so I thought it best to pm you first and give the details of what they think, in the hope it may help you decipher a little more where your horse could be from.  

Hope the info helps a bit.


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## brighteyes (24 September 2011)

There was a riding school in West Runton near Cromer which has closed down - maybe he was there?  How exciting you think you have traced a little more of his history


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## Dovorian (24 September 2011)

KWPN passport would indicate Dutch breeding, I don't thin that there is a stags horn in their brand. I also remember an imported (Russian, I think) that had a brand under it's saddle area, perhaps it is done for aesthetic reasons - as we do with freezemarks?

TBH I dont think that the dealer is being totally straight, but who cares if the horse has a permanant home now.


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## DebbieCG (26 September 2011)

Agree with Dovorian above.

I have pm'd and sent email to samandcasper with some other info I gleaned, but no reply yet, so sure she won't mind if I post this info now here.

I asked a German based equine establishment, via their website horsedream (which has other European branches) if they may recognise the branding and breed type.  They kindly said they would ask in their newsletter and I have rec'd the following reply from them:

"the horse you want some informationes about is an original lipizzan horse
from hungaria. May be from Szilvasvarad.
I hope I could help you with my answer."

If anyone could give samandcasper more advice on perhaps how to follow up this info, that would be helpful.  

Anyway, hope samandcasper see these recent posts.


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## DebbieCG (26 September 2011)

Further to above, one other idea, thinking laterally, could the 'L' stand for Lipizan or something like that, rather than 'Loss of Use', as referred to at the beginning of this post?

Try looking at this website: www.lipizzan.atspace.com


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## DebbieCG (26 September 2011)

Just found a Hungarian website regarding Lipizzaner Private Breeders Association in Szilvasvard (sp) and if you go to it their Logo appears to be stag horns with 'L' in the middle - looks fairly similar to samandcasper photos of branding.

www.lipicailo.hu

Sorry if the earlier website does not go directly to correct intended site.


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## Dizzydusty (26 September 2011)

DebbieCG said:



			Just found a Hungarian website regarding Lipizzaner Private Breeders Association in Szilvasvard (sp) and if you go to it their Logo appears to be stag horns with 'L' in the middle - looks fairly similar to samandcasper photos of branding.

www.lipicailo.hu

Sorry if the earlier website does not go directly to correct intended site.
		
Click to expand...

Have a click on the breeding page, (go in through google and you can opt to translate), right at the bottom is an image of a diagram with brands and stuff on it, the one on the bottom right hand side looks likes caspers to me.

Ive translated (thanks google) what it means - 

L - the purebread lipizzaner

94 (this I would imagine be the same for caspers number) - the colt known szul
First names
two digits
pitched at the right

(I typed this into the translator exactly as it was shown in the diagram)

click on the link at the bottom and it then brings up stallion (father) branding and mare branding

How exciting....

Dizzy


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## tinap (27 September 2011)

Gosh, the brand does look very much like the logo! I keep checking back on this thread to see if there's any new leads! Fingers crossed! xx


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## samandcasper (29 September 2011)

hello everyone so sorry i havent replied sooner i dont get emails to say people have commented and have 3 weeks left till i give birth so had few hos and doc apps and not been on for a while, again debbie thank you very much  ... the lady i had spoke to hasnt bothered mesaging me back so im thinking it was someone bored ans just getting my hopes up??? i need to get off comp now as cant sit here for long due to the fat belly and the worst back ache ever lol so i will pop back on later and see what i can have a look up on, i did click a link from here but it came up in a diff language and i couldnt find to translate it, thanks for everyones else comments to, will try get a recent pic of my handsome baby here to....

also another bit of good news the horse i sold (rocky the standaredbred i had for 4 years) to allow me to buy casper, and think i made a post on her about him when his young owner abused him bad and a lovely lady rescued him as young girl signed him over to her, well i went to pick him up on the 24th august as the lady who took him on lost her yard and gave him back to me <3 so casper now has a new friend to meet when i have had my baby and i get casper back from his loaner  will upload a pic of my rocky boy aswell  xx


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## DebbieCG (29 September 2011)

Best wishes for your forthcoming event, samandcasper!  You obviously have your hands full at the moment : ).

In trying to help your efforts, I've contacted a top person at one of the UK's Lipizzaner Associations and they kindly confirmed what Horsedream (the German and European based equine establishment) also thought, that Casper's branding is a Lipizzaner brand and is a Szilvasvarad brand but this UK person also confirmed that some people have copied these brands. However, they are kindly trying to trace the numbers and will be contact, so I will post any info I receive on here in due course.

I have also emailed the Hungarian Private Breeders Association with Caspers branding detiails but haven't heard from them as yet.  Will post details if they do reply.

Hopefully we forum members can help you in the meantime, while you are so busy!


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## samandcasper (30 September 2011)

thank you  i'll make sure i get a pic of baby on here lol

and again i really really apprecitate all ur doing for me debbie thank you very much, xx


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## Hells Bells (30 September 2011)

I think a lot can be said for the people here on the forum. It's so refreshing to see how helpful and kind everyone is. I've only just joined a few weeks ago, but I think its so lovely how everyone helps one another!

Sam, I have been reading this thread and I wish you all the best for the birth of your baby, and give lots of hugs to Casper for me too! What a lucky boy he is to have found you!

xx


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## samandcasper (14 October 2011)

its been very very helpfull this site and all the people heping me and from the bottom of my heart i really apprecitate it  and thank you i had my baby on the 8th october  a day before my other sons birthday , casper is my baby hes deffo got a forever home with me, there is only 1 person i would let him go to be sold if things ever went wrong and that is his lovely family that loans him i could have asked for a better lot of people caring and loving him, will have a little update on here soon everyone xx


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## tinap (15 October 2011)

Big congratulations!!!!


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## DebbieCG (30 October 2011)

Hi Sam

Hope all's going well.  I've tried to send you email but not sure if it's your current one, so just wanted to let you know I've now heard from the top contact person at one of the British Lipizzaner Associations and she appears to have traced details!  They couldn't confirm this to me though as I am not the current owner, so have asked if you can contact them.  I have listed the contact details in my private email to you, so if you don't have access to that I can pm you here with contact details.

I really hope it is the correct trace they have made - (but please don't get hopes too high until you have received and verified the details etc), but I do hope so!

Best wishes, Debbie


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## DebbieCG (30 October 2011)

Also just to mention, the British Lipizanner contact had previously mentioned a possible 'Siglavy' line, when I initially enquired about Casper's type of brand, but wasn't confirmed at the time, as they were just about to try and trace Casper's branding details.

In the meantime, I hope it's ok to put this short You Tube film on about the Hungarian National Lipizanner stud farm in Szilvasvarad.

Anyway, hope Sam sees my above message very soon!

Not sure if the link will work but here goes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxyc1e0xhi8


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## DebbieCG (30 October 2011)

Looks like you have to copy the link first, then click on the initial link above, paste it into You Tube browser and a few items come up and the Hungarian Lipizanner film is about 5th or 6th film down.


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## DebbieCG (30 October 2011)

Hope Sam sees message above soon.

Think this link should work now (rather nice short film of the Hungarian Lipizzaner stud farm:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxyC1E0xHI8


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## kim s (31 October 2011)

hi samand casper just wanted to saywhat a lovely job you have done with your boy he s looking super.the freeze mark is definatly loss of use for some reasons greys get whiter an the top an bottom round of the circle have blended its no problem tho get your vet to do a good check over him an c what he is ablen not able to do all the best xx&#9787;


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## DebbieCG (31 October 2011)

Kim, not sure if you've read the most recent comments, but Casper's branding looks like it may well be that of a Hungarian Lipizzaner and in fact I am trying to let Sam know that a top person at one of the British Lipizzaner Associations would like Sam to contact them as I think they have made a trace on the numbers and branding of Casper.  So far this expert has not given reason to think the branding is for loss of use.

I agree that Casper looks really well and Sam is doing a great job with him.  I think Sam's reasons for trying to trace his history are very valid as she would like to know his true age and what he has done and therefore what he is able to do in his best interests.  He's a lucky boy to have found such a caring home.


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## samandcasper (5 November 2011)

thank you tina, and sorry again debbie i know i have spoke to u throught facebook and email just keep forgetting bout this lol xx ITS NOT LOSS OF USE!! the vet has checked the brand all ready and casper and has found nothing wrong with him, but thanks for ur nice comment xx


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## ter21wat (11 April 2012)

Hi there,

Just read this whole post with great interest and hoped at the end samandcasper would have gained some more information on the lovely casper...but it seems to have just stopped? Did samandcasper ever get in touch with the British Lipizzaner Society? Hows casper doing now, had a quick look on the FB page but no recent photos, hope alls well with him   x


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## DebbieCG (11 April 2012)

I don't think Sam will mind me mentioning that she has been in touch with the Lippizzsner Association but I think it's a fairly long-winded procedure.

I'll try and send Sam an FB message to see if she can confirm anything yet.

From what I could see, Casper looked great in some recent photos.


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## ter21wat (12 April 2012)

Ah thats good, hopefully they will be able to find out something about him for her...im intrigued now too lol, thats why i thought i would post to see if there was any update in the last couple of months  From the pics on here Sam has done an amazing job getting him back to health so whatever happens at least his story has a happy ending and he has found a lovely forever home  x


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## samandcasper (21 April 2012)

hi again all, i know i had said i wouldnt EVER part with casper, but im so ashamed to say that casper isnt my boy anymore, he has gone to a family who do weddings with lippizzana horses, not to far up the road from me, i swapped him with my friend so now i have a wizzy stuning little 14.2 pony called billy, and my friend sold casper to the ppl who have him now and they have lipps so will know loads about them ect, and it turns out hes a bloody pro at driving as had been drove all ready, i loved casper so much he was a amazing horse BUT me and him never clicked, i wanted what he couldnt offer (as now its obvis hes a driving horse) and he never felt like mine and from wht i felt he never looked at me as his owner :'( the ppl have traced him back to hungay from his brands from what ive heard from my friend that i swapped him with, im in contact with them so will deffo keep this post updated still... sorry for the let down ppl but i see it as i saved him from where he was,i had a amazing 3 years with him and now hes back doing what he loves <3 i'll never forget him, but with what happend with my previous horse i vowed to never let a horse of mine suffer again just to keep me happy, as cut long stroy short, i sold a previous horse as we werent suited and it took 2 years to sell him so i took the 1st person whon wnted him and they abused him badly so to stop this happening i let him go whn i realised we werent suited xx THANKS FOR EVERYONES HELP AND COMMENTS IT MENT ALOT  XXXX


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## dingle12 (21 April 2012)

Did u find out how old he was and his history? 

Debbie did a fantastic job helping you x


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## samandcasper (19 May 2013)

I had the vet out just before he went and he was 11-12 I think it was (quite a while ago now) and yes she sure did what an amazing lady and a great help witch I cannot thank you enough, Casper is now named solly and still going amazing an well loved and cared for, THANK YOU ALL so much for ur comment help and advice actually ment alot  xxxxx


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## Penny Eater (12 June 2013)

Not the ending I was expecting! Horses change hands like pound coins, reminds me of poor old black beauty. Least he didn't end up back at the dealers...


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## Tiarella (13 June 2013)

Well that was a disapointing ending.... I dont particulary get on with my horse all the time but I dont just sack him off.


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## StarcatcherWilliam (13 June 2013)

rachaelstar said:



			Well that was a disapointing ending.... I dont particulary get on with my horse all the time but I dont just sack him off.
		
Click to expand...

Agree with this! Very disappointed and feel really sad for the horse!


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## FinkleyGladiator (13 June 2013)

I cant believe I just read this whole thread for such a rubbish ending....boo!


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## samandcasper (13 June 2013)

You don't know the full story, so don't dare turn on me for parting with Casper  he wasn't happy and neither was I, for the 3 years it was a struggle to bond with him witch I have learnt that lips need to be with there breed, Casper is no longer nervous and drives weddings and funeral carrages for pegsus horse and carriage masters one of the biggest horse   carriage company's in England! Hes thriving, so for me just to have him grazing in my field vein ridden every now and again (as I'm more for caring feeding grooming ect) than ride ride rise so I'm sorry if this post has let you down but if u knew the full story of the then now and after I think u would undrstand hes far better off!!


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## LadyRascasse (14 June 2013)

samandcasper said:



			You don't know the full story, so don't dare turn on me for parting with Casper  he wasn't happy and neither was I, for the 3 years it was a struggle to bond with him witch I have learnt that lips need to be with there breed, Casper is no longer nervous and drives weddings and funeral carrages for pegsus horse and carriage masters one of the biggest horse   carriage company's in England! Hes thriving, so for me just to have him grazing in my field vein ridden every now and again (as I'm more for caring feeding grooming ect) than ride ride rise so I'm sorry if this post has let you down but if u knew the full story of the then now and after I think u would undrstand hes far better off!!
		
Click to expand...

Here here, you know where he is and that he is happy and well cared for. I can't see the problem really. They are very expensive pets so if you can both have a happier life separately then I can't see a problem with that. Life's not a fairytale!!


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## Luci07 (14 June 2013)

LadyRascasse said:



			Here here, you know where he is and that he is happy and well cared for. I can't see the problem really. They are very expensive pets so if you can both have a happier life separately then I can't see a problem with that. Life's not a fairytale!!
		
Click to expand...

And if you had not taken him on and given him the chances you did, he would now be in this home.


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## Gryfiss (14 June 2013)

TBH Its taken me forever to read this thread and felt I need to comment, yes horses do get moved on but the whole sob story about he will never be moved on, I love him he's the best thing since life's bread to we never clicked from the start is so ex-steam and a load of crap.

On the other hand i'm amazed at the lenghth HH went to help out amazing


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## Penny Eater (14 June 2013)

^ Totally agree. 
I don't think the ending would have come as such a disappointment to readers if you hadn't gushed so much about (and i quote) how much you loved him, how loving he was, how perfect, the horse in a million, home for life etc etc... 
Good he's got a nice home now, but what happens when he's too old and crock-looking to pull their carriages for them?! He looked like he was in his early 20s when you started the thread.


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## fatpiggy (14 June 2013)

Come on, who hasn't thought something was absolutely amazing, perfect or whatever in the first months and then took their love-blinkers off and started to see the reality?  Probably explains why so many marriages break up.  At least Sam went to alot of trouble with her horse, many people would have cut their losses much earlier on and got rid. After all, isn't that what so many people here advise - it supposed to be fun, find one that is more suitable for what you really want, blah blah.  For now at least he is in a good home, doing a job he enjoys.  If his new owners decide after a while that he isn't up to it anymore, well that is on their conscience.  Look at all the hundreds of racehorses that don't make it, aged just 3 or 4 and are chucked on the scrapheap.  At least Caspar has had a decent length of life and some care and attention in his latter years.


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## FinkleyGladiator (14 June 2013)

Gryfiss said:



			TBH Its taken me forever to read this thread and felt I need to comment, yes horses do get moved on but the whole sob story about he will never be moved on, I love him he's the best thing since life's bread to we never clicked from the start is so ex-steam and a load of crap.

On the other hand i'm amazed at the lenghth HH went to help out amazing  

Click to expand...

This. No ones turning on you for parting with him cause most people sell horses it was the whole "he's my baby I'm never going to sell him.....by the way I sold him"  I hope hes happy in his new job though


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## JenJ (14 June 2013)

FinkleyGladiator said:



			This. No ones turning on you for parting with him cause most people sell horses it was the whole *"he's my baby I'm never going to sell him.....by the way I sold him"*  I hope hes happy in his new job though 

Click to expand...


3 years later...

Makes a hell of a difference. it's not like the OP started this thread one day and sold him the next.

It was her horse, it was her decision. It's not for anyone else to get their knickers in a twist about


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## DebbieCG (14 June 2013)

I would actually call this a very good outcome/ending.

Sam has always had Casper's best interests at heart and always done her best to do what is right for him (including the 3 years of looking after him and striving to get him healthier and better as he was in a bad condition when she first 'rescued'/bought him) and also seeking a bit of help/advice and support from the forum speaks volumes of her dedication to him.

The bigger perspective is that Casper is safe and well cared for and Sam has got him to a place where he understands what he is doing and she knows where he is.

I believe Sam got a fair way into learning a little bit more about him/his histroy and once you know a bit more things can become clearer as to the best course of action, together with the fact that if things aren't working out in the way you had hoped you just want to do what is best for your horse - which is what Sam has done and was always her intention (regardless of a slightly different but positive outcome).

Well done to Sam and glad Casper is in a good place in his life.


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## StarcatcherWilliam (15 June 2013)

tedmunster said:



			Good he's got a nice home now, but what happens when he's too old and crock-looking to pull their carriages for them?! He looked like he was in his early 20s when you started the thread.
		
Click to expand...

Exactly what I thought.


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## samandcasper (16 June 2013)

He will retire on there land with the other retired horses!! Jees why have some people got to be so negative. I didnt only have him for a week I had him 3 years 6 months even moved of my yard to a very small quite lovely yard to see if it helped him witch it didn't I tried and tried untill I couldn't offer anymore and instead of shoving him to the back and just keeping him he's gone on to do what he's all ways done, driving race and pulpit wedding carts ect, that boy wa deperessed and now it's hard to recognise him now I apprecitate what u are saying, I sold a horse many many years ago and my boy went through actual hell beaten starved and left in a stable for 2 weeks with nothing not even water, her yard owner took him over and signed him back to me!! I lost my grazin and I had to let him go again to the lady who I got him from in the very beggning and she worked wonders with him as he had few up stairs problems!! It messed my head up so much I was put on anti depressants!!! so my desssion to let Casper go after all that with rocky was NOT a dessision I made over night (no that I had to tell any of u this because he was mine and it was my decision) there is no way he would hve gin to just anyone, she is a very well known dealer ( not one of the ****** ones) pretty much one of the best I've come across!!


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## samandcasper (16 June 2013)

And it's actually thanks to this lady who rocky and Casper went to that there both in the fab homes that they are now!!


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