# scanned not in foal but foaled????



## birchave0 (31 May 2012)

anyone????
mare covered then scanned on 14 days empty, not covered again and turned out.
owner suspects the mare might now be in foal!!!

has anyone one else had this experience????


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## kworth (31 May 2012)

Yes, it happened to my mare.  I had her covered late in the season, it was a case of we'll have one go, if she takes, all well & good, if she doesn't we'll try again earlier next year.  We had her scanned & she wasn't showing in foal.
Several months later, we suspected that she may have held & had her checked by the vet, who confirmed our suspicions.


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## birchave0 (31 May 2012)

oh!!!!

mare not huge but certainly "tubby"  bloods are being taken 
sadly mare has not been fed as if she were in foal


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## the watcher (31 May 2012)

It isn't that unusual, a 14 day scan is a bit unreliable and I always have a later one if the mare does not come back into season to confirm


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## birchave0 (31 May 2012)

no, the mare was not scanned a second time, nor watched to see if she came back into season, as far as I know.
Believe she was chucked out in a field


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## Meandtheboys (31 May 2012)

birchave0 said:



			oh!!!!

mare not huge but certainly "tubby"  bloods are being taken 
sadly mare has not been fed as if she were in foal 

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I wouldn't worry about "not been fed as if she were in foal" - nothing wrong with just grass!! ( unless she has been starved!!)


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## birchave0 (31 May 2012)

sadly up until January she had been left in a field and "starved" would have sprung to mind if you'd seen her 
she has been on decent grazing since then, but is fat nowhere but her tummy area....


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## Nugget La Poneh (31 May 2012)

Could be the effects of grass after being on poor grazing.

Only way of telling conclusively if in foal is to get checked by the vet.


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## birchave0 (31 May 2012)

vet been out today and bloods taken, just looking for other peoples experiences of scanning "empty" only to end up with a foal


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## Monkers (31 May 2012)

If she were to be in foal, when would she be due? I agree, you don't need to worry too much about the feed. I keep my warmblood broodmare on very little hard feed. I don't up it in the last 3 months if she looks good on grass, but I do feed a good vit and min supplement. This years foal was stunning, so I am doing something right!


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## Monkers (31 May 2012)

birchave0 said:



			vet been out today and bloods taken, just looking for other peoples experiences of scanning "empty" only to end up with a foal
		
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Yes, it happens quite often, I have heard plenty of stories. The most common one is when the mare owner begins the scanning cycle again, only to find an embryo that had been missed at 14 days.


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## birchave0 (31 May 2012)

well I suppose we'll just have to wait and see.  Damn you bank holiday!!  Lab results won't be back until next week now


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## the watcher (31 May 2012)

If she is in foal, don't fret about her having restricted grass earlier, I'm sure she won't have come to any harm unless her condition went to seriously underweight.
Hope you get the outcome you want


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## cruiseline (31 May 2012)

Last season if we had gone purely on a 14 day scan two of our mares would not be in-foal this year. Thankfully we do scan more than once and on their 18 day scan, both showed 14 day pregnancies. One of those mares is on foal watch at the moment, so fingers crossed for our first foal of the years any day now


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## the watcher (31 May 2012)

cruiseline said:



			Last season if we had gone purely on a 14 day scan two of our mares would not be in-foal this year.
		
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mine always shows as an 11-12 day foetus on the 14 day scan so I have to reassure the vet that there is actually something there..then we rescan again a few days later to confirm


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## emlybob (31 May 2012)

Very common as she may not have ovulated straight away.

Even the top breeding vets can miss it!!


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## TJP (31 May 2012)

My cousins mare scanned not in foal. She rode her all winter. Phoned me one day to say she had her tacked but the mare was sweaty and had white fluid on her back legs. I advised tack off and back into stable as it sounded like she was foaling  Healthy filly arrived about an hour later!


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## alfiesmum (1 June 2012)

my mare was covered in june 2011 first time in hand and she was a maiden,
caught first time scanned at  14 and 42 days only 1 foal and a heartbeat, 3 days later discharge, scanned not in foal,.... fast forward to march 2012 vet was out to castrate my colt and looked at mare and announced she was in foal, bloods took 5 days by which time i could see foal moving. she had little in the way of looking after feed wise . she foaled an amazing colt (~pics on my thread ) on 17th may 2012 and all is well . so it can happen xx


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## 9tails (1 June 2012)

My warmblood mare is a barrel on legs at the moment, she's not in foal.  A jolly good fart will get her back to normal girth.


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## birchave0 (1 June 2012)

Monkers said:



			If she were to be in foal, when would she be due? I agree, you don't need to worry too much about the feed. I keep my warmblood broodmare on very little hard feed. I don't up it in the last 3 months if she looks good on grass, but I do feed a good vit and min supplement. This years foal was stunning, so I am doing something right!
		
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if the dates we have are correct she would be due now!
no bag or udder, she does have lots of lovely big milk veins though, not sure if they are any indication?
also lots of tummy activity, usually at dinner time!
in fact when turned out this morning the mare had a bucking/rearing fit which resulted in a lot of tummy movement!!!!  Maybe she woke it up??!!! lol


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## lachlanandmarcus (1 June 2012)

TJP said:



			My cousins mare scanned not in foal. She rode her all winter. Phoned me one day to say she had her tacked but the mare was sweaty and had white fluid on her back legs. I advised tack off and back into stable as it sounded like she was foaling  Healthy filly arrived about an hour later!
		
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Love this!! Clever mare!!


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## SpottyTB (1 June 2012)

birchave0 said:



			anyone????
mare covered then scanned on 14 days empty, not covered again and turned out.
owner suspects the mare might now be in foal!!!

has anyone one else had this experience????
		
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YES! This happened to us last year!!! Mare covered in 2010.. scanned not in foal - we were all GUTTED especially stud owner as stallion had never NOT got a mare in foal..

Took her back to stud in 2011..we all thought the day she went, she was looking quite podgy and we worried stud owner would be un impressed with her weight (we had been restricting grazing/not feeding for 1 month previously).. 

Mare arrived, Stud owner looked at her and said "bet you she's in foal", vet came out and clarified mare was 9 month's gone.. mare had to stay at stud to foal.. had her foal and kicked him over the stable 5 bar gate at 2 min's old.. refused to feed him for 12 hours (first feed was milked off then went 12 hours without food).. finally she accepted him 24 hour's later - phew!

We weaned them last sunday, and so far - so good!

This is what we were left with.. 







We were furious with the vets, they had all of the dates and still scanned her far to early.. we took them to court (well didn't actually get that far) but ended up being paid money for our troubles.. we spent over 3k more then we would have if she was at home!!!


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## Laafet (2 June 2012)

Hmm, well I am not surprised if she was scanned at 14 days, we had one that was scanned in foal today having been scanned not in foal two days ago (at 14 days by request of her owner). We use a very experienced specialist repro vet. Cysts and allsorts can get in the way but then we scan in general at 16, 28 and 60 days just to be sure.


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## immoralorchid (5 June 2012)

Yep scanned not in foal then thought she hasn't come into season and looks extreamly tubby uh oh so had the vet out to do an internal and 




Nope just fat ooop


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## birchave0 (7 June 2012)

results still not arrived


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## Cherrygarden (7 June 2012)

Surely a manual or scan would have been, cheaper, quicker and more conclusive. What can possibly be taking so long, I'd be jumping up and down by now.


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## birchave0 (7 June 2012)

Cherrygarden said:



			Surely a manual or scan would have been, cheaper, quicker and more conclusive. What can possibly be taking so long, I'd be jumping up and down by now.
		
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the vet came last Wednesday, bloods not posted to the lab until Thursday and with it being a long bank holiday, hence the delay.

according to the dates the mare would be due around now, so I presume that's the reason for not scanning......?  : /


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## Cherrygarden (7 June 2012)

I doubt it, vets will scan right up until last minute if problems are suspected with placenta and at that size you could probably scan from the outside and see it. I didn't think bloods were accurate that late in but have to trust the vets I suppose. Hope it is the right news whatever happens : )


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## ribbons (8 June 2012)

Any news yet?


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## elijahasgal (10 June 2012)

I had scan done late last year (I believe it was about 5 weeks gone) as the vet that I wanted out and to talk to about other issues had been on holiday. He is an experienced repro vet. He felt, and said her shape was typical of a mare that was in, and searched. He found a cyst first (I knew but forgot she had one) then scratched his head. If he had not been so convinced that she was in, he wouldnt have gone furthur. The baby was hiding, and he found it. (and what a cracker he has turned out to be)
I can easily see how a vet can miss, or miss a twin if one is hiding, as they are human, and nature is not always compliant. But it dont mean that I would be best pleased if it happened to me


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## birchave0 (11 June 2012)

no, still no results 
will keep you all posted though


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## chrissie1 (11 June 2012)

They need chasing up, that's not good enough!


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## birchave0 (11 June 2012)

going to ring AGAIN!
Wednesday rang, Thursday rang, Friday rang (promised to ring me back and didn't!)
Hello Monday......


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## Aidey (11 June 2012)

I have just bought a Sec A yearling and her breeder told me her dam was put to the sire and when scanned she showed up empty so they left it at that. Then when they went to check on her in the field one day she had foaled my little yearling.  She is fine and healthy but is rather tiny, whether or not this is down to the mare having just lived out I don't know, but otherwise she is a very healthy, cheeky little pony


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## birchave0 (12 June 2012)

yesterday after a bit of a bust up with the office at the vet's, they admitted that after 12 days the bloods still hadn't been tested!  Then I got a call last night to tell me the results are negative.......

I asked a friend who is a vet and he reckons the sample, because of the age of it, would have been worthless and the result could therefore be flawed?
The practice have admitted they only send off the samples once a week!  Is this normal? 
it appears by the time my sample was tested the blood was 12 days old, could this have affected the outcome?

Sorry for all the questions just very upset and confused by the whole thing


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## Cherrygarden (12 June 2012)

Money back - I'd want - sharpish! And a big apology and a competent vet sent out to do a manual or scan and give a conclusive answer. My vet is a one man band and sends everything off as soon as he can get it into an envelope with the right bits of paper. Once a week is taking a big risk with too many things, I hope they haven't been handing out swab certificates based on freedom from infection after the samples sat in the office for a week.


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## ElleSkywalker (12 June 2012)

My vets won't even blood test my dog in the eve to test the next morning! 

Serious words with the practice manager & agree with cherrygarden that they should send another vet to do a manual foc!


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## birchave0 (12 June 2012)

I'm a bit shocked by the whole thing TBH, I knew there would be a bit of a delay with the bank holidays but 12 days????
I've also done some research on the good old net and it appears the oestrone sulphate test they did on the blood sample could come back as negative as the mare, if she were in foal, would be more than 300 days.  So according to my reading the levels of the above hormone start to reduce at around 300 days/10 months?

So this coupled together with a 12 day old blood sample makes the results rather questionable


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## toomanynags (12 June 2012)

We have the same situation here vis a vis mare apparently in foal after being scanned NIF last August. Blood oestrone was run a couple of weeks ago, but came back negative. However, oestrone levels fall after 300 days gestation, so can be a false negative, and she would have been about 320 days based on dates she was covered (she ran with the stallion). She should be over 340 days now.

Mare is very large, has right shape for a foal, has not shown in season this year, seems to have flank movement which indicates foal, udder very variable, but def much fuller than you'd expect for a barren mare. She had white dots on her teats, which have now disappeared, and I can express some clear fluid, but not milk. Very placid, HQs have change shape, so we are working on basis that she is in foal.  Decided not to do external scan as meant travelling her, which tends to stress her. Could have internal scan, but decided to save pennies for the time being.  If no change by this time next week probably will scan her.

Frustrating not to know for sure, not least because I wouldn't be getting up in the night if it wasn't necessary!

Hope you get an answer soon.


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## eventrider23 (12 June 2012)

Can you not get the vets to give a quick internal exam?  If they reach in they will either feel a baby or not....


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## Holly831 (13 June 2012)

eventrider23 said:



			Can you not get the vets to give a quick internal exam?  If they reach in they will either feel a baby or not....
		
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Ditto this! Why are they doing bloods when a quick internal 'feel' will answer the question?

Good Luck!


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