# Control headcollars vs stallion chains



## Decision_Tree (13 February 2012)

Hey Guys,

My horse can be strong when lead and I want to get his manners fix! He is a big lad and can easily turn you into a "water skier". I find a lead rope over his nose helps but would like to find something which gives even extra control. 

I am looking for recomendations for control headcollars and/or station chain and links of where to buy? 

I can offer innocent smoothie in return


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## Aces_High (13 February 2012)

I would use either a chain or a chifney - just remember both are severe so not to go OTT.


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## kerilli (13 February 2012)

i'm no lover of chifneys, if the horse does get away and tread on the rope it could break its jaw. also, a mare of mine wore a chifney for a bit (while i was on crutches and someone else had to lead her around) and after having it in a few times she went completely uncatchable if she saw it, no WAY was she having that put on again.
the NH rope halters are pretty good, I use those for slightly wayward ones.
the best by far though, if you can get hold of one (or borrow one for a few weeks) is the one with a smooth tubular metal hoop around the nose. if the horse is strong you just rattle the hoop against its face. no risk of damaging the mouth, and i've had big strong opinionated geldings go "YES SIR!" instantly to that, only need it on a few times, go back to a normal headcollar and never lose their manners again. I used mine for week or two and then sold it to a friend with mega-strong chuffing rude cobs, it's the only thing they respect...  this style is not cheap but it's magic!

should also have said - stay a tiny bit in front of him, and use your elbow (strongest joint in your body apparently) hard into the front of his chest as a "WHOA" aid, until he respects it... should avoid the dangerous waterskiing incidents...


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## Decision_Tree (13 February 2012)

Thanks guys. I am slighty scared of chifneys and would rather avoid if I am honest, I think there is no point to using one as I would be worrying about using it incorrectly.

Kerilli - I have been walking with my elbow in his shoulder as it feels secure and also I have control, makes such a great difference. Works really well coming in from field and I have to say I have had little issue bring him in. The main times I have issues is when he is clever and manages to get me caught behind something, which always tends to happen on the way out of the stable. For example I have to walk at a slight diagonal out of the stable then out the barn and he can punt me over so I am caught with the side of the slide door in front of me! I managed to get him this weekend tho by using the door as a lever and gave him a massive yank! not stylish but effective as soon stopped him!


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## ArcticFox (13 February 2012)

I use this, its great as you have the extra control when you need it and at all other times there is no pressure.

I never travel them with it, or put it over bridles etc -  http://www.getknottedropehalters.co.uk/products.htm


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## kerilli (13 February 2012)

that sounds like a good way of regaining a bit of respect, good for you! how about if YOU go first through the narrow bit, and he halts and waits and halts again until you are clear? I'd even do it facing him if necessary. He does NOT precede you, either physically or mentally...  
fwiw if they get ahead of you and you start waterskiing and they then kick out at you (as can happen, be it high jinks or malice) it can be fatal... so, that's never a position i am happy to let a horse put me in...


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## Decision_Tree (13 February 2012)

AF - I have never used a rope collar but might be an option.

Kerilli - I think thats a big part of the answer, just being black and white with him so he knows the score. I am lucky that at the yard its run by a husband and wife so I get help from a man who soons sorts him out! He turns out my horse and makes him walk out in a polite manner which in turn will help me handling him.


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## jhoward (13 February 2012)

my gelding came to me having been a sod to turn out/lead etc previous owners had used chains etc on him, ive always used a dually.,  done the ground work before using it to turn out.. , and also got him leading so he kept his shoulder by me at all times. 

i when going longer distances (used to have to do about 1/4 of a mile up a road to get to fields ) used a lunge rein and carried a whip. 

the whip if he starts diverting his attention is brushed on the end of his nose, just as a oi you look hear, it works well. every time ive lead him in or out we may do a bit of a stand, a back up etc so its also work and ive got him thinking on me and what im asking rather than gorping at the phasant in the field etc. 

when its got to the field, where he was used to have a chain ripped off him etc (he has massive ear issues) i used to unclip him let him go, then go back to him and remove the headcollar, it took away the expectation of thats going to hurt i must gallop off and show you my back feet! 

these days hes very good, i can lead him about with a nother horse etc, i know if he is going to have a silly moment as the fool does a little head toss.. to which he gets a rollocking and told to walk nicely.. 

i can however notice the difference in him when he has been handled by others..


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## Cortez (13 February 2012)

If they're rude I use a chain over the nose, if they're REALLY rude I use a serraton (metal thingy with a serrated edge, HEAVILY covered with leather, but a fearsome thing in the wrong hands). I have Spanish horses, some are stallions; some are rescues with behaviour problems.  Horses weigh an average of half a ton: I don't.


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## ladyt25 (13 February 2012)

Eskadron chain headcollar works for mine! He has always been strong to lead - well, when he's feeling that way out anyway! At college they used stallion chains on his headcollar to lead him and they worked. I would wrap the rope round his nose and this works but you can risk the rope slipping too far down and potentially you could badly injure your horse then uf you pulled too hard.

The eskadron headcollar essentially has a built in stallion chain but you can clip the leadrope to the normal headcollar ring when you tie the horse up.


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## Jesstickle (13 February 2012)

I have the Eskadron one with the chain too. Great stuff. Much easier than fannying about with  a chain lead rope and you can use it as a normal headcollar too.


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## Decision_Tree (13 February 2012)

I have seen the Eskadron chain headcollar, I do like the look of it but think might be more cost effective to by a stallion chain rather than 30 quid on a headcollar. 

Carrying a stick to point at him might be good too as I sometimes point it at him when he paws and it stops him so he has respect for it.


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## Jesstickle (13 February 2012)

I have one with it built in as he goes everywhere in it (ie on the lorry etc) and I find it much easier to just unclip the rope from the chain and onto the ring when I want to tie up and not have to spend time unthreading and rethreading the chain through a normal headcollar. If you're only going to be using it sporadically and don't want to tie up etc then it probably isn't worth the extra money.


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## Firewell (13 February 2012)

Mine can be a poo to lead sometimes.

I tried a dually as that worked wonders with my last horse but my boy is just too much of a lad for it. He's so smart he can do all the games but it doesnt mean he wants to get in/out from the field any less and he really doesnt have much respect for it at all.

I normally use a snaffle bridle (just a headpiece, bit and browband) with a lunge line. The lunge line is brilliant as it means he can't snatch it out of my hands and he doesnt pull at all when he has the bridle on. I dont use it all the time 80% of the time hes fine in a normal headcoller but occassionally he needs reminding. I also always use the bridle if i'm late getting him in/turning out and if the weather is really windy and rainey or hes galloping around when I go to get him in!

I have used a stallion chain and for the odd use to say 'oi!!! me!!!' they can work. The thing is I feel a bit mean! He only pratted around once in the stallion chain and it really shocked him! He came right back to me and was mouthing like a baby foal. The problem is that the chain doesnt slacken quickly and when they are leaping about the chain tightening and hurting can make them worse.

Hope that helps


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## Kiristamm (13 February 2012)

Having worked with stallions, I like to use a chain. I was taught over the nose on stallions and under the chin on mares. I have used sorettas on PREs but I am not that experienced with them and found a chain easier. 

At the stud, this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Stephens-...t=UK_Horse_Wear_Equipment&hash=item27ba38cae2 was the last resort really. 

We had one stallion that would only lead in a rope halter (have you tried this?). 

But if there was an issue with any of them, it was generally dealt with by ground work, if they were bargy, they went back to where they started to barge from, then had to repeat walking through the door etc politely and slowly. Maybe some of this would help too..


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## lillie07 (13 February 2012)

My gelding is lead with a chain over the nose. 90% of the time it isn't required but he can be rude and it works a treat when he is!


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## Decision_Tree (13 February 2012)

I could be tempted to spend the cash on the Eskadron chain headcollar, I might see if I can find one in a shop to have a look at and might even give it a ebay search or gumtree to see if I can find one for cheaper. I would like to have the chain there all the time, ideally. do you travel with them in the headcollar but with the lead rope on the normal ring?


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## Spyda (13 February 2012)

Kiristamm said:



			At the stud, this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Stephens-...t=UK_Horse_Wear_Equipment&hash=item27ba38cae2......
		
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Highly recommend this bit of kit. Expensive but it lasts a lifetime (providing no one nicks it ) and provides a really safe way to lead any 'difficult' horse.


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## Kiristamm (13 February 2012)

Spyda said:



			Highly recommend this bit of kit. Expensive but it lasts a lifetime (providing no one nicks it ) and provides a really safe way to lead any 'difficult' horse.
		
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Oh no i take it someone had yours....


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## Spyda (13 February 2012)

Kiristamm said:



			Oh no i take it someone had yours.... 

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Yep, _both_ of mine were pinched, at the same time. Last winter they 'disappeared' from my hiding place - I never left them laying about and always tucked them away into a feed bin, stuffed under a neck rug. The full head version had my name deeply burned into the leather, so I dunno who could be using it. It's a distinctive enough peice of kit (lots of people ask me what it is) and with my name branded into the leather - you'd think someone would have noticed it being used  Sadly, the clip on version wasn't marked. I've now replaced both but am REALLY careful with them - as you can imagine. Not cheap to replace  But I wouldn't be without mine now.


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## kerilli (13 February 2012)

Spyda said:



			Highly recommend this bit of kit. Expensive but it lasts a lifetime (providing no one nicks it ) and provides a really safe way to lead any 'difficult' horse.
		
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that's the one i was trying to describe. i paid £70 for mine, wish i'd kept it now! they are a piece of MAGIC when it comes to disciplining very big arrogant horses or tanky cobs who know their own strength... i don't believe in any other short-cuts with horses but these are definitely one, they earn you respect in about 2 seconds.


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## tinap (13 February 2012)

I too use the Eskidron with a chain. Only need to use it very rarely & he knows now not to be a plank when he has it on so its very rare that he tries anything on now. 

He has a humongous head & there is no way I would win any battle with it!


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## miller (13 February 2012)

If anyone can remember where they found one of the Stephens style ones for around £20 please let me know - been looknig for ages as borrowing a friends for leading tank in from the field (he's spooky and bargy since old livery yard used to let them all gallop in together and pick a stable!) - I can't hold him in a stallion chain and he's had OH off his feet - 22yo now and perfect until he gets a bee in his bonnet! 

Excellent piece of kit - I don't mind if it's not leather or if anyone sells just the nose ring - I'll make the rest with webbing


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## Jesstickle (13 February 2012)

Ems207 said:



			I would like to have the chain there all the time, ideally. do you travel with them in the headcollar but with the lead rope on the normal ring?
		
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That's exactly what I do  They're pretty good sturdy headcollars. The only annoying thing is that it has a roller buckle on the headpiece rather than eyes and a billet.

If it helps here is BH sporting his


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## FestiveBoomBoom (13 February 2012)

I bought an Eskadron last week as my boy has been a bit of an ahole to bring in these last couple of weeks, doesn't do anything overly naughty just very strong. However, literally from the day it turned up he has gone back to being a lamb to bring in, typical! But the minute he reverts back to being strong it will be used!


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## Spyda (13 February 2012)

miller said:



			If anyone can remember where they found one of the Stephens style ones for around £20 please let me know - been looknig for ages as borrowing a friends for leading tank in from the field (he's spooky and bargy since old livery yard used to let them all gallop in together and pick a stable!) - I can't hold him in a stallion chain and he's had OH off his feet - 22yo now and perfect until he gets a bee in his bonnet! 

Excellent piece of kit - I don't mind if it's not leather or if anyone sells just the nose ring - I'll make the rest with webbing
		
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Are you thinking of a Mikmar Training Halter? (http://www.mikmar.com/bit-pages/traininghalter.html) If so, don't bother. I bought one and the leather snapped into two, in two _difference_ places, within 3 months of purchase and had hardly been used as it was summer and mine were living out during the time I had it. The Mikmar is the only other product like the Stephen's Controller in the world that I know of (I know because I looked last year after my Stephens had been stolen). KM Elite Products were the Mikmar UK supplier but after I returned mine KM Elite withdrew the product. As far as I know, no one else in UK stocks it and I really couldn't recommend the Mikmar to anyone. Luckily my Mikmar broke whilst I was cleaning it - goodness knows what could have happened if I'd been leading one of the horses in it. The Mikmar is also very small - the 'horse' size (the largest they sell) is only suitable for an average 'Arab' sized head. The ring is too small in diameter for a larger horse or pony. Hate to say it, but the Stephens is the best. That said, the ring on the Stephens is really only suitable for horses with a normal sized head. The ring would be too small for a horse with a very large head (eg: XFS). 

I bought a second hand Stephen's on eBay last year. Cost me £40. They are very occasionally listed and well worth keeping an eye out for. Set up a Saved Search on eBay so you'll be notified if a second hand Stephen's Controller gets listed. It's how I found one of mine.


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## Spyda (13 February 2012)

jesstickle said:



			That's exactly what I do  They're pretty good sturdy headcollars. The only annoying thing is that it has a roller buckle on the headpiece rather than eyes and a billet.

If it helps here is BH sporting his












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These are well worth a try for horses that will respond to a rope or chain across the nose. For mine though, even as a yearling, she'd simply push into the chain and tw*t about regardless. She was a big WBxTB youngster and simply considered it worth the discomfort across her nose to try and get her own way. She was (is still) always lead in a lunge-rein so never ever managed to get away from us in hand but she was 'tricky' to handle and after I recovered from a badly broken ankle which left me with a limp and discomfort for the following 2 years, I was recommended (on here) the Stephen's Controller. Within 2 or 3 uses 'Madam' realised she was 'had' and gave little trouble walking in hand. 

I _still_ lead my horses on the road to their field using my Stephen's and a lunge line, and over the years it's come into its own on those rare occasions the unexpected happens. It's definitely saved a loose horse more than once.


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## Decision_Tree (13 February 2012)

jesstickle said:



			That's exactly what I do  They're pretty good sturdy headcollars. The only annoying thing is that it has a roller buckle on the headpiece rather than eyes and a billet.

If it helps here is BH sporting his












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Looks good. I have to agree I would prefer eyes and billet but would live with roller buckle. I have found one stallion chain on ebay and its 40 squids so be as well with this!

A rope over the nose works for him so likely this would work too, I like the idea that the chain is ready in place and wont slip off the nose like a lead rope can. 

The stephens style piece of kit looks great too, if he was really bad I would look into one of those as a good investment. I will continue to the ground work and see if I can loan a chain headcollar to try first.

thanks for all the advice, some great tips


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## FestiveBoomBoom (13 February 2012)

Ems207 said:



			Looks good. I have to agree I would prefer eyes and billet but would live with roller buckle.
		
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They do this version too, mine is in that style. Although mine is cob sized so may vary depending on particular size?


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## ladyt25 (13 February 2012)

FestiveBoomBoom said:



			They do this version too, mine is in that style. Although mine is cob sized so may vary depending on particular size?
		
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Ah, wish I'd got mine in that style as it is probably the only design flaw in the headcollar. Not taht I've had an issue with it but, if your horse prats about to be caught then it does take a touch longer to get the headcollar done up.

The ONLY problem I have with it is I think mine sees it coming and, as he knows I have control in that heacollar he can sometimes begger off when you try to put it on!!!


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## tinap (13 February 2012)

I just leave the roller buckle alone & use the throat clip instead on the Eskidron.


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## Jesstickle (13 February 2012)

Tinap555 said:



			I just leave the roller buckle alone & use the throat clip instead on the Eskidron.
		
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Me too. but BH is very tolerant of having his ears pulled. For a sensitive soul I suppose this wouldn't be an option..


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## Four Seasons (13 February 2012)

I've got a Monty Roberts Control headcollar for my stallion... he goes nuts when he see's it. He doesn't listen to it. He is more controllable with his normal halter.


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## jj_87 (13 February 2012)

I have a cob sized eskadron controller headcoller brand new with tags it was too small for my mare!


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