# Appleby Fair



## justabob (5 June 2013)

Well it is all kicking off here, they have arrived. It is dreadful. We have been taken over by the absolute dregs of society.


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## Amymay (5 June 2013)

Absolutely feel for you.


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## CobsGalore (5 June 2013)

How awful


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## justabob (5 June 2013)

amymay said:



			Absolutely feel for you.
		
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Thank you AM. hellish time.


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## DabDab (5 June 2013)

amymay said:



			Absolutely feel for you.
		
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me too


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## galaxy (5 June 2013)

We've just had Wickham Fair.  Dread it every year.  This year there was a huge fight and someone was shot in the head with some sort of catapult!!  Yet this is accepted and continues.  If it had not been a member of that society I am sure they would be sent down for years!!!  It is just accepted from them for some reason...  Beyond belief!


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## baileyxboo (5 June 2013)

What actually happens there?


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## TandD (5 June 2013)

galaxy said:



			This year there was a huge fight and someone was shot in the head with some sort of catapult!!
		
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sorry this just made me laugh! it can ONLY happen between those sorts that travel to these things (do hope the 'victim' is ok?)......

id love to go to one of these things, just once,  as it is a real experience.....but some just ruin it for the rest and i dont think id be very safe turning up there by my self!!!!


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## justabob (5 June 2013)

taylorsxmummy said:



			What actually happens there?
		
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Murder,shootings, rape, human castrations, lots of human poo.Horses thrashed to death, then left to die at the side of the road. It is a tourist attraction apparently.


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## DabDab (5 June 2013)

justabob said:



			Murder,shootings, rape, human castrations, lots of human poo.Horses thrashed to death, then left to die at the side of the road. It is a tourist attraction apparently.
		
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I sincerely hope none of them know where you live! 

It's a big gathering of certain folk who take all manner of things there to buy, sell and generally rag about.


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## justabob (5 June 2013)

DabDab said:



			I sincerely hope none of them know where you live! 

It's a big gathering of certain folk who take all manner of things there to buy, sell and generally rag about.
		
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I am a force to be reckoned with.


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## Adopter (5 June 2013)

It must be really distressing to live near. I think I have read somewhere about horse charities being their to try and pick up pieces.
How awful that people use as a tourist attraction, I can not understand why the appealing treatment of the animals is allowed to continue, and I guess that it is the local residents who have to foot the bill for the cleanup through their council tax.


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## Adopter (5 June 2013)

It must be really distressing to live near. I think I have read somewhere about horse charities being their to try and pick up pieces.
How awful that people use as a tourist attraction, I can not understand why the appalling treatment of the animals is allowed to continue, and I guess that it is the local residents who have to foot the bill for the cleanup through their council tax.


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## WelshD (5 June 2013)

A wonderful part of the world to live in, idyllic, picturesque and peaceful

...for 51 weeks of the year

If you run in to Rileyboy tell him we miss him


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## justabob (5 June 2013)

WelshD said:



			A wonderful part of the world to live in, idyllic, picturesque and peaceful

...for 51 weeks of the year

If you run in to Rileyboy tell him we miss him 

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He is here as we speak, but in short trousers..................he is only 12. Well that is my take on him.


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## weebarney (5 June 2013)

I can never quite figure out why 'horse lovers' go there. People I know always ask if you are going as if it is expected.... Hell on earth? No thanks


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## NellRosk (6 June 2013)

justabob said:



			Murder,shootings, rape, human castrations, lots of human poo.Horses thrashed to death, then left to die at the side of the road. It is a tourist attraction apparently.
		
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is this actually true?!?!? WTF


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## FlaxenPony05 (6 June 2013)

WelshD said:



			If you run in to Rileyboy tell him we miss him 

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Lol  
Feel for you OP.


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## lachlanandmarcus (6 June 2013)

TandD said:



			sorry this just made me laugh! it can ONLY happen between those sorts that travel to these things (do hope the 'victim' is ok?)......

id love to go to one of these things, just once,  as it is a real experience.....but some just ruin it for the rest and i dont think id be very safe turning up there by my self!!!!
		
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Not true that it's always between themselves,  my old YO was shot right next to her eye with one of those by a youth from the local traveller site, completely unprovoked. That's when she wasn't having to deal with the dead foals they would dump at the yard gates or trying to calm the horses when they threw fireworks into the yard. Police wouldn't go onto the site without armed support by which time John Smith was long gone (this was a small local official site...) so they did whatever they wanted knowing no consequences. 

Nice...:-(((


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## kat2290 (6 June 2013)

Where do you live justabob? We are going on holiday on Saturday morning, travelling from Cockermouth to Liverpool airport...we've allowed an extra hour to get through Penrith and on to the m6, do you think that's enough? I don't think I've ever travelled through when it's been on


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## Toffee44 (6 June 2013)

DabDab said:



			I sincerely hope none of them know where you live! 

It's a big gathering of certain folk who take all manner of things there to buy, sell and generally rag about.
		
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When I went I went with a few real gypsy folk who were dealing in harness. As far as I am aware none of them go anymore. To them they struggle too find the heart of it all. They went up that way to meet friends on the way up but apparantly many didn't go into the fair and made their own gathering else where knowing the guys I know, probably putting the world to  rights. Two sold there wagons/ caravans at Appleby and said they won't be returning there wry sad.

It's a changing world I think for the real gypsys. And I think many are struggling.


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## YasandCrystal (6 June 2013)

lachlanandmarcus said:



			Not true that it's always between themselves,  my old YO was shot right next to her eye with one of those by a youth from the local traveller site, completely unprovoked. That's when she wasn't having to deal with the dead foals they would dump at the yard gates or trying to calm the horses when they threw fireworks into the yard. Police wouldn't go onto the site without armed support by which time John Smith was long gone (this was a small local official site...) so they did whatever they wanted knowing no consequences. 

Nice...:-(((
		
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Lovely   Maybe all the 'traveller lovers' here on HHO should attend Appelby and stay localy for a week


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## slumdog (6 June 2013)

I've always thought it looks quite fun on the telly, like a big country fair! But obviously not, it sounds awful


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## CobsGalore (6 June 2013)

Did someone say human castrations?


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## Beausmate (6 June 2013)

justabob said:



			Murder,shootings, rape, human castrations, lots of human poo.Horses thrashed to death, then left to die at the side of the road. It is a tourist attraction apparently.
		
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You missed out stealing!  Lots of stealing and criminal damage, then there's the mess left behind.

Basically a festival for the lawless. 

Don't know about castrations, but the fighting is another part of the fun!


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## Bills (6 June 2013)

weebarney said:



			I can never quite figure out why 'horse lovers' go there. People I know always ask if you are going as if it is expected.... Hell on earth? No thanks
		
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I agree!!


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## Clodagh (6 June 2013)

An elderly friend of ours lives at Appleby, his house backs onto the river. He phones up in tears every year, he is terrified and cannot leave his house, yet can't move out for the week either or he won't have a house to move back to.
We wondered why he moved there but when he bought the house - 30 years ago - it was apparently not as bad and now he is stuck. Tragic that it is allowed to continue and I feel for anyone in the area.


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## hayinamanger (6 June 2013)

I spoke to someone who went a few years ago, it was £50 to park your car and there were armed police everywhere.


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## CobsGalore (6 June 2013)

Clodagh said:



			An elderly friend of ours lives at Appleby, his house backs onto the river. He phones up in tears every year, he is terrified and cannot leave his house, yet can't move out for the week either or he won't have a house to move back to.
We wondered why he moved there but when he bought the house - 30 years ago - it was apparently not as bad and now he is stuck. Tragic that it is allowed to continue and I feel for anyone in the area.
		
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What an awful situation to be in


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## Fransurrey (6 June 2013)

YasandCrystal said:



			Lovely   Maybe all the 'traveller lovers' here on HHO should attend Appelby and stay localy for a week 

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If Appleby is too far, they are always welcome to Moulsecoomb in Brighton, where certain types seem to think it's a holiday park and despite the installation of giant Biffa bins, the council still has to go on after them and clear up the almighty mess. They move between three areas, all of them sports grounds. Currently they're on a cricket pitch. I feel for you Appleby locals. Being close to Epsom is bad enough!


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## stencilface (6 June 2013)

I really feel for people living near there it must be awful. I would like a full documented account of total numbers and crime increases etc at the fair and in the local community.  Why do they let these things continue if they are as bad as they are reputed to be?  Why are the human (if you can call them that) rights of an ethnic group rated higher than the human rights of the local community who surely have rights to feel safe in their own home?  

Toffee - its interesting what you say, so likely the fair has been taken over by the scum section of this part of society (like many things do in any society) leaving the 'old-schoolers' out to find their way somewhere else?


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## Moobucket (6 June 2013)

Ohhh I went once about 5 years ago. It was when I was just getting in to horses and I thought it'd be like a country fair, you know... like a smaller version of Bramham...  My LORDY LORD was I in for a shock.

It was like being in a hostile football crowd but with horses. You had to watch not to get trampled because they were racing the horses up the main street, past people. You had to try not to get beaten up for staring at the girls who'd only got their knickers and bras on... albeit in a fetching shade of luminous yellow, pink or green. You had to try not to look visibly distressed when they were 'riding' their horses into the river then washing them with head and shoulders shampoo, which was getting in their eyes and they were going mental. You had to try not to see the swathes of knock off chainsaws, garden equipment for sale round the back (Seriously, who owns 8 second hand chain saws). Then there was the big mammas walking about in their fur coats through the filth with Styrofoam cups and trays stuck onto the bottom of their stiletto heels.   It was a weird sort of horsey hell and made me very angry to be honest.


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## YasandCrystal (6 June 2013)

Stencilface said:



			Toffee - its interesting what you say, so likely the fair has been taken over by the scum section of this part of society (like many things do in any society) leaving the 'old-schoolers' out to find their way somewhere else?
		
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Sadly the old schoolers who have never been a problem to anyone are so far and few between now  It's this new breed who both normal law abiding folk and the Police are scared of, as they show no respect to anyone.


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## justabob (6 June 2013)

Beausmate said:



			You missed out stealing!  Lots of stealing and criminal damage, then there's the mess left behind.

Basically a festival for the lawless. 

Don't know about castrations, but the fighting is another part of the fun!
		
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A few years a girl got raped, they handled the situation well, off with his balls it was!
One year it was the fashion to carry machetes and another year guns, not sure what this years assessory is yet though.


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## weesophz (6 June 2013)

Clodagh said:



			An elderly friend of ours lives at Appleby, his house backs onto the river. He phones up in tears every year, he is terrified and cannot leave his house, yet can't move out for the week either or he won't have a house to move back to.
We wondered why he moved there but when he bought the house - 30 years ago - it was apparently not as bad and now he is stuck. Tragic that it is allowed to continue and I feel for anyone in the area.
		
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what a poor old soul


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## stencilface (6 June 2013)

YasandCrystal said:



			Sadly the old schoolers who have never been a problem to anyone are so far and few between now  It's this new breed who both normal law abiding folk and the Police are scared of, as they show no respect to anyone.
		
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Why are they though? ridiculous!


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## Hippona (6 June 2013)

Moobucket said:



			Ohhh I went once about 5 years ago. It was when I was just getting in to horses and I thought it'd be like a country fair, you know... like a smaller version of Bramham...  My LORDY LORD was I in for a shock.

It was like being in a hostile football crowd but with horses. You had to watch not to get trampled because they were racing the horses up the main street, past people. You had to try not to get beaten up for staring at the girls who'd only got their knickers and bras on... albeit in a fetching shade of luminous yellow, pink or green. You had to try not to look visibly distressed when they were 'riding' their horses into the river then washing them with head and shoulders shampoo, which was getting in their eyes and they were going mental. You had to try not to see the swathes of knock off chainsaws, garden equipment for sale round the back (Seriously, who owns 8 second hand chain saws). Then there was the big mammas walking about in their fur coats through the filth with Styrofoam cups and trays stuck onto the bottom of their stiletto heels.   It was a weird sort of horsey hell and made me very angry to be honest.
		
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Wow. Just.....wow....


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## CobsGalore (6 June 2013)

justabob said:



			A few years a girl got raped, they handled the situation well, off with his balls it was!
		
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Perhaps society can learn something from them after all!


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## The_snoopster (6 June 2013)

I went once, my memories are as follows :-

3 dead horses drowned whilst being washed in the river

The smell of 2 rotting horse copse,s will stay with me forever, which were dumped in ditches.

A tiny mini shetland having to struggle to pull 6 grown men up the hill in a little cart, men thought this was very good fun.

Woman selling their lucky charms (which were actually looney tunes keyrings) pmsl

Foals being ridden by teenagers

Trotting races with regular crashes and horses slipping over on their sides.

Its a shame really because there were some nice looking horses there who looked well cared for, but the sad truth is my memories are of the bad bits not the good bits.


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## FinalFurlong (6 June 2013)

Just awful. I saw a cart pulled by a cob en route last week, the horse only looked about 3


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## Moobucket (6 June 2013)

Yes, i'd forgotten about the carts on route. So you have the A66 which is a dual carriage way with long straight descents where people speeding along at over 80mph, then lo and behold a horse and cart with 3 lads on it trotting along. Its terrifying and horses are killed every year despite the warning signs. Who'd put their horses through that?


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## FinalFurlong (6 June 2013)

Yes the cart I saw was on that road!!! Idiots


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## HollyhedgePippa (6 June 2013)

justabob said:



			Murder,shootings, rape, human castrations, lots of human poo.Horses thrashed to death, then left to die at the side of the road. It is a tourist attraction apparently.
		
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Seriously?!


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## slumdog (6 June 2013)

Moobucket said:



			Ohhh I went once about 5 years ago. It was when I was just getting in to horses and I thought it'd be like a country fair, you know... like a smaller version of Bramham...  My LORDY LORD was I in for a shock.
		
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That's what I imagined


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## pennyturner (6 June 2013)

I wouldn't judge gypsy society based on the more visible types described here.  I'm sure you wouldn't want someone judging 'you and your kind' based on the aftermath of a west end football derby.

I had the pleasure of taking an elderly romany gentleman (lived locally for many years, and a friend) to Stow fair a few years ago.  He was proper old school, and seemed to know everyone.  For me it felt like giving the Queen a lift to Ascott.  These fairs originate as marriage and trade events, where deals are done, and friendships/kinships kept alive.  They're essential for nomadic people.

I drive carriages, so have dealings with both irish and romany types quite regularly, and have found them honest and decent.  I'm sure many of them are as pissed off with the out of control element as everyone else.


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## stencilface (6 June 2013)

I'm a bit offended that some posters thought Appleby would be like Bramham!  

Its fraightfully posh at bramham you know, we have Pimms with fruit and everything!


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## Cinnamontoast (6 June 2013)

pennyturner said:



			These fairs originate as marriage and trade events, where deals are done, and friendships/kinships kept alive.  They're essential for nomadic people.
		
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But very few now are actually nomadic, they've taken over tons of land near me and have had it made official as a desiganted site right by the Hilton and graze their ponies on the lawns there!

It's become something totally different from the original aim.


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## GeeGeeboy (6 June 2013)

Sounds like hell on earth. I know someone who goes every year and loves it-can't understand why! It must be awful living near it.


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## pootleperkin (6 June 2013)

I live not far away on one of the main arterial roads that they use to get into the area. Often, then turn up about 2 - 3 weeks in advance and camp on the verges just at the lane end from us, this time, because of the poor weather, thankfully they only showed up a week or so ago.

It's a funny do the fair - probably something to go and have a look at once, but it is very difficult to get over the way they treat their horses - which are their pride, joy and wealth, it should be added! They don't seem to see anything wrong with what they do, but to us, it's all v wrong - the culture clash is just so vast!

All this week, driving to our local town along the stretch of 'camping road' (main A road, usually v fast and I don't like riding along it) you have been taking yours and their life into your hands.....people dropping onto the road in sulkys just in front of you, people parking on the road (across the full lane!!) just so they can have a chat and a cup of tea with their mate who is parked up there! They just have no respect for the folk around them and that is what gets me. Actually, I should say there are some of the old school gypsy folk still around, who are courteous and smile and wave to you as you go past in your car, but they are defo the minority.

All sorts of stuff goes missing at this time of year - my friend just had her tractor battery stolen from her leccy fence last week - wonder where that went (!) - could it be on to the hastily constructed electric fence down the road that was put up as young foals were wandering onto said road?!!! OH had to stop and funnel one back to its dam the other night - the gypsies didn't seem to care!

I have some friends who live v close to the site who love it - it amazes me - one is  a complete fluffy bunny hugger with all animals and yet she copes with them riding yearlings, thrashing the horses up and down the tarmac etc etc.....most strange. It is  the welfare aspect that I can't on with, as I say, the culture gap (young lasses in neon PVC and heels etc)  otherwise is just too big for me to even begin to identify with!


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## ApplebyLover (6 June 2013)

I am not sure if I have ever read a more prejudiced, snobbish, ill-informed, biased, nasty, unsupported, hate-filled garbage account of Appleby Fair and Gypsies as appears in this forum. 

The words 'It must be awful' appear half a dozen times, demonstrating that those writers at last have never been there, but that does not stop them spouting their prejudice.   Apart from the one or people who have written in to defend 'real gypsies' but mostly it is verging on simple racism, and says as much about the character of the writers as it does about the character of Gypsy people...


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## tessybear (6 June 2013)

I think i would rather cheese grate my own eyeballs then witness it. 


They camped on the verge near us a few weeks ago, foals lose wandering near the side of a 70mph road. Thrasing youngsters up and down said 70mph roads at night  and the amount of mess they left 


Oh and they decided to block a bridlepath with their caravans and left glass everywhere for the council to clean meaning said bridlepath has been out of action for a few weeks whilst the council tidy up after them


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## laura-c (6 June 2013)

ApplebyLover said:



			I am not sure if I have ever read a more prejudiced, snobbish, ill-informed, biased, nasty, unsupported, hate-filled garbage account of Appleby Fair and Gypsies as appears in this forum. 

The words 'It must be awful' appear half a dozen times, demonstrating that those writers at last have never been there, but that does not stop them spouting their prejudice.   Apart from the one or people who have written in to defend 'real gypsies' but mostly it is verging on simple racism, and says as much about the character of the writers as it does about the character of Gypsy people...
		
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Wondered when the *racism* card would be pulled! *taxi!*


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## tessybear (6 June 2013)

ApplebyLover said:



			I am not sure if I have ever read a more prejudiced, snobbish, ill-informed, biased, nasty, unsupported, hate-filled garbage account of Appleby Fair and Gypsies as appears in this forum. 

The words 'It must be awful' appear half a dozen times, demonstrating that those writers at last have never been there, but that does not stop them spouting their prejudice.   Apart from the one or people who have written in to defend 'real gypsies' but mostly it is verging on simple racism, and says as much about the character of the writers as it does about the character of Gypsy people...
		
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Owp here they come out in force 

http://primetime.unrealitytv.co.uk/...at-prejudice-against-travellers-is-warranted/

http://blogs.rspca.org.uk/insights/2012/08/21/this-is-appleby-horse-fair-2012/

http://www.politics.co.uk/opinion-f...ed-for-drowning-a-horse-at-appleby-horse-fair


Google it.... appleby fair is not a nice place, some travellers are okay, others are scum and deserve their title, same as normal folk you get the bad and good. Its not racist at all.


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## hairycob (6 June 2013)

If anybody is under the illusion that it's only travellers who treat there horses badly I could tell them a few tales about people who play upmarket games.


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## EAST KENT (6 June 2013)

That does not make it right though.."two wrongs...." Avoid it like the plague if you care about horse treament.


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## DabDab (6 June 2013)

ApplebyLover said:



			I am not sure if I have ever read a more prejudiced, snobbish, ill-informed, biased, nasty, unsupported, hate-filled garbage account of Appleby Fair and Gypsies as appears in this forum. 

The words 'It must be awful' appear half a dozen times, demonstrating that those writers at last have never been there, but that does not stop them spouting their prejudice.   Apart from the one or people who have written in to defend 'real gypsies' but mostly it is verging on simple racism, and says as much about the character of the writers as it does about the character of Gypsy people...
		
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I think people are generally using 'it must be awful' in reference to others living nearby - a lot of accounts on here are first-hand. You can say that those accounts are wrong or biased if that's what you think, but this thread hasn't been filled with vague, ignorant prejudice from people who haven't got a clue.


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## CobsGalore (6 June 2013)

hairycob said:



			If anybody is under the illusion that it's only travellers who treat there horses badly I could tell them a few tales about people who play upmarket games.
		
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I don't think anyone ever said it was only travellers who treated their horses badly... but this thread is about... Abbleby Fair


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## galaxy (6 June 2013)

ApplebyLover said:



			I am not sure if I have ever read a more prejudiced, snobbish, ill-informed, biased, nasty, unsupported, hate-filled garbage account of Appleby Fair and Gypsies as appears in this forum. 

The words 'It must be awful' appear half a dozen times, demonstrating that those writers at last have never been there, but that does not stop them spouting their prejudice.   Apart from the one or people who have written in to defend 'real gypsies' but mostly it is verging on simple racism, and says as much about the character of the writers as it does about the character of Gypsy people...
		
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Unsupported?  Need evidence of someone shot in the head and a big fight at Wickham Horse Fair?  

Ok....

http://www.itv.com/news/meridian/update/2013-05-20/man-shot-in-head-at-wickham-horse-fair/


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## RunToEarth (6 June 2013)

Coincidentally it is the one week of the year that Newark is tollerable...

Completely feel for you Justabob, I have never understood why that event is tollerated. 

It also baffles me that PETA and the likes are not making a big deal - PETA are usually the biggest at kicking up a fuss...


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## RunToEarth (6 June 2013)

ApplebyLover said:



			I am not sure if I have ever read a more prejudiced, snobbish, ill-informed, biased, nasty, unsupported, hate-filled garbage account of Appleby Fair and Gypsies as appears in this forum. 

The words 'It must be awful' appear half a dozen times, demonstrating that those writers at last have never been there, but that does not stop them spouting their prejudice.   Apart from the one or people who have written in to defend 'real gypsies' but mostly it is verging on simple racism, and says as much about the character of the writers as it does about the character of Gypsy people...
		
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Rileyboy?


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## CobsGalore (6 June 2013)

RunToEarth said:



			Rileyboy?
		
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Haha it can't be haha cos he's not laughing haha


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## hairycob (6 June 2013)

Two wrongs certainly don't make a right, just pointing out that people who do bad things to horses come from all walks of life & do it because they are scum. A violent scumbag is a violent scumbag whether they are a traveller or their familiy has owned 100s of acres for generations. Some people are just better at hiding it or people just shrug & say "he's always been like that" & let it go because of who/how wealthy they are. Occasionally they come across a group of people who are not prepared to let it go & report it but still nothing is done. Bitter moi?


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## nix123 (6 June 2013)

Having gone to a few Ahemm "Travellers fairs" over the years some can indeed be described as a respectful nomadic gathering which is still a very just part of their way of living. Others are just a p*k*y gatherings in a field, left churned up and filthy. 

OOh and i wondered how long it was before the race card was dealt!!


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## ApplebyLover (6 June 2013)

galaxy said:



			Unsupported?  Need evidence of someone shot in the head and a big fight at Wickham Horse Fair?  

Ok....

http://www.itv.com/news/meridian/update/2013-05-20/man-shot-in-head-at-wickham-horse-fair/

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So, because someone was shot in the head at Wickham, that makes people who go to Appleby scum does it?  Because someone was shot in the head in Glasgow that makes all Scotsmen gangsters does it?  Because you witnessed someone mistreating a horse that justifies a scatter-gun condemnation of 50,000 people does it ?  Because one of our leading race-horse trainers is doping his horses does that make the entire racing world corrupt?  Because some soldiers are guilty of atrocities against women and children, that makes the whole of the armed services sadistic killers does it?  Of course not.  But when you allow your prejudice to make exactly that kind of unjustified leap about Gypsies, that is called racism. It is not a 'card to be played' - racism is the simple everyday habit making false assumptions about a whole group of people because of the behaviour of some of them.  For example, if I made a post to say that all of the readers of Horse and Hound are racist because of a few comments on this forum, you would of course be outraged.  If we had 20,000 vicars in Appleby for a conference, some of them would be paedophiles, and some of them would s**t  behind the hedge if there was no toilet, that is human nature - but it does not make the Church 'awful'.  And by the way, at the last forum after Appleby Fair there was a MAJORITY of townspeople in favour of the Fair. Fact. Does that make them scum too? Pejudice and hate are contemptible wherever they appear - and in this case, it seems the contempt is mutual.


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## tessybear (6 June 2013)

ApplebyLover said:



			So, because someone was shot in the head at Wickham, that makes people who go to Appleby scum does it?  Because someone was shot in the head in Glasgow that makes all Scotsmen gangsters does it?  Because you witnessed someone mistreating a horse that justifies a scatter-gun condemnation of 50,000 people does it ?  Because one of our leading race-horse trainers is doping his horses does that make the entire racing world corrupt?  Because some soldiers are guilty of atrocities against women and children, that makes the whole of the armed services sadistic killers does it?  Of course not.  But when you allow your prejudice to make exactly that kind of unjustified leap about Gypsies, that is called racism. It is not a 'card to be played' - racism is the simple everyday habit making false assumptions about a whole group of people because of the behaviour of some of them.  For example, if I made a post to say that all of the readers of Horse and Hound are racist because of a few comments on this forum, you would of course be outraged.  If we had 20,000 vicars in Appleby for a conference, some of them would be paedophiles, and some of them would s**t  behind the hedge if there was no toilet, that is human nature - but it does not make the Church 'awful'.  And by the way, at the last forum after Appleby Fair there was a MAJORITY of townspeople in favour of the Fair. Fact. Does that make them scum too? Pejudice and hate are contemptible wherever they appear - and in this case, it seems the contempt is mutual.
		
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But we didnt say the entire race of gypsies are evil  this thread is about Appleby  Your rant would apply if someone came on and said every singly gypsy abused their horse and acted like scum... but we didnt so no need for it


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## CobsGalore (6 June 2013)

Scottish gangsters, doped jockeys, murderous soldiers and paedophile vicars...

No assumptions made in your post either ApplebyLover!


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## ApplebyLover (6 June 2013)

As to the fair being left 'churned up and filthy' let me enlighten you about Appleby Fair.  The Market Field is a bit of private enterprise by a local farmer who has tuned one of his fields into a gigantic car boot sale, purely for profit.  The Gypsies have no control over it - some of them pay their money and park there, and their money is used to clean up afterwards and to install the toilets and skips.  Fair Hill, in the next field, is the traditional fair, operated by the Gypsies. Fair Hill is quieter, more law abiding, cleaner, and managed in very close and co-operative dialogue with the Local Authorities. It is picked clean after the Fair.  Have you ever seen the aftermath of Glastonbury or any other big pop festival?  It makes Appleby look like an easy clean up. The Gypsies finance the skips and the toilets of Fair Hill which are used by the trippers and visitors who pay nothing whatsoever. There is no admission charge to see the spectacle at Appleby, and no Gypsies take a fat profit out of it. Some years it loses money. To criticise the fair because the field is a mess afterwards is just childish.


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## weesophz (6 June 2013)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzJ0jc_dbGg

these all look like really caring and respectful riders who obviously understand that their horses are terrified.


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## indie999 (6 June 2013)

I dont even want to look at how cruel humans can be sometimes. Supposed to be a law abiding society. I really wonder sometimes how they get away with it year, in year out. I hope HMRC is there to collect the spoils from the exchange of money?


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## ApplebyLover (6 June 2013)

CobsGalore said:



			Scottish gangsters, doped jockeys, murderous soldiers and paedophile vicars...

No assumptions made in your post either ApplebyLover!
		
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You missed the point BobsGalore - by about 180 degrees.


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## Amymay (6 June 2013)

weesophz said:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzJ0jc_dbGg

these all look like really caring and respectful riders who obviously understand that their horses are terrified.
		
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What a bunch of twunts.  Check out 2.59


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## laura-c (6 June 2013)

amymay said:



			What a bunch of twunts.  Check out 2.59
		
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Whacking that foal into the water at 3.10. Disgusting.


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## CobsGalore (6 June 2013)

ApplebyLover said:



			You missed the point BobsGalore - by about 180 degrees.
		
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I completely got your point. However, this thread wasn't bashing gypsies, it was discussing Appleby Fair. Stop trying to turn this thread into something it's not.

Oh and that video is disgusting. I don't get the obsession with taking the horses into the river? Can anyone explain this? Is there a tradition behind it?


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## tessybear (6 June 2013)

CobsGalore said:



			I completely got your point. However, this thread wasn't bashing gypsies, it was discussing Appleby Fair. Stop trying to turn this thread into something it's not.

Oh and that video is disgusting.
		
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thiss ^^

one could say you have missed the purpose of this thread


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## ApplebyLover (6 June 2013)

amymay said:



			What a bunch of twunts.  Check out 2.59
		
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Yea, pretty vile at 2.59.... reminds me of the Grand National...


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## Amymay (6 June 2013)

ApplebyLover said:



			Yea, pretty vile at 2.59.... reminds me of the Grand National...
		
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Yeah, right


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## saalsk (6 June 2013)

ApplebyLover said:



			Yea, pretty vile at 2.59.... reminds me of the Grand National...
		
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LMAO !

What a stupid comment.


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## tessybear (6 June 2013)

saalsk said:



			LMAO !

What a stupid comment.
		
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Me thinking someone is bored and decided to start an argument


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## CobsGalore (6 June 2013)

ApplebyLover said:



			Yea, pretty vile at 2.59.... reminds me of the Grand National...
		
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Yeah let's change the topic onto breaking in 2 years olds, because that's never been done before...

*yawn*

Let's talk about Parelli instead


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## saalsk (6 June 2013)

tessybear said:



			Me thinking someone is bored and decided to start an argument 

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I think you are right - still made me snort my tea though !


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## weesophz (6 June 2013)

at least in the national they dont intentionally try to duck horses completely underwater. what even is the point in that?


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## Bucephalus Steell (6 June 2013)

What an awful video, the point is that it is not about who or what group of people are doing this the fact is that Appleby is hosting this in a large way. It is providing an enviroment in which horses are put in increasingly uncomfortable positions. This does not mean that it doesnt happen at livery yards out of the view of the public, it means it is happening here, and therfore should not be tolerated. It is not about the who, it as about the fact it is happening as seen in that video and i am sure many others and therfore the ability to predict horses being mis treated so should be reviewed, seriously.


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## MadisonBelle (6 June 2013)

laura-c said:



			Whacking that foal into the water at 3.10. Disgusting.
		
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Couldn't watch anymore after that..... Takes a brave "man" to throw a defenseless foal into the water..............barstewards...


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## ApplebyLover (6 June 2013)

CobsGalore said:



			I completely got your point. However, this thread wasn't bashing gypsies, it was discussing Appleby Fair. Stop trying to turn this thread into something it's not.
		
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Correct - in so far as I am trying to point out that anyone reading this thread who had no been to Apply Fair would be given a prejudiced view of it. 

"We have been taken over by the absolute dregs of society."  Prejudice. There are a majority of highly moral and respectable people attend Appleby Fair. 

"*If it had not been a member of that society* I am sure they would be sent down for years!!! It is just accepted from them for some reason..."   That Society - what all of it? (Racist)

"it can ONLY happen between those sorts that travel to these things"  I travle to Appleby Fair regularly and have never misttreated a horse in my life, or stolen a chainsaw, or raped anyone, or murdered anyone. I know you are talking about Appleby Fair and the people who go there, but don't forget me!

"What actually happens there?
Murder,shootings, rape, human castrations, lots of human poo. Horses thrashed to death, then left to die at the side of the road. "  
This is about Appleby Fair of course - these things dont happen anywhare else. 


"so likely the fair has been taken over by the scum section of this part of society"    The Fair has not been taken over by the nasties - the Fair is generally well ordered, closely supervised by Police, RSPCA, Health and Safely, Trading Standards, HMRC, and Market Licensing.  "taken over by the scum section of this part of society"   is simply wrong, and is simply prejudice. Racist at that. 

"It's this new breed who both normal law abiding folk and the Police are scared of, as they show no respect to anyone."  Ditto. The police are no more scared of them than they are of drunken louts on a Saturday night, terrorists, or football hooligans. Misleading scaremongering nonsense. 

A few years a girl got raped, they handled the situation well, off with his balls it was!   Evidence for this?  No, I thought not...More or less *******s! 
One year it was the fashion to carry machetes and another year guns, not sure what this years assessory (sp) is yet though.  Prejudiced nonsense. 

3 dead horses drowned whilst being washed in the river.  Evidence please?  I thought not. 

I am not trying to turn this into anything - just point out that it is full of inaccuracy, prejudice and misleading nonsense, based on rumour and hearsay. I still think you missed the point.


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## galaxy (6 June 2013)

ApplebyLover said:



			So, because someone was shot in the head at Wickham, that makes people who go to Appleby scum does it?  Because someone was shot in the head in Glasgow that makes all Scotsmen gangsters does it?  Because you witnessed someone mistreating a horse that justifies a scatter-gun condemnation of 50,000 people does it ?  Because one of our leading race-horse trainers is doping his horses does that make the entire racing world corrupt?  Because some soldiers are guilty of atrocities against women and children, that makes the whole of the armed services sadistic killers does it?  Of course not.  But when you allow your prejudice to make exactly that kind of unjustified leap about Gypsies, that is called racism. It is not a 'card to be played' - racism is the simple everyday habit making false assumptions about a whole group of people because of the behaviour of some of them.  For example, if I made a post to say that all of the readers of Horse and Hound are racist because of a few comments on this forum, you would of course be outraged.  If we had 20,000 vicars in Appleby for a conference, some of them would be paedophiles, and some of them would s**t  behind the hedge if there was no toilet, that is human nature - but it does not make the Church 'awful'.  And by the way, at the last forum after Appleby Fair there was a MAJORITY of townspeople in favour of the Fair. Fact. Does that make them scum too? Pejudice and hate are contemptible wherever they appear - and in this case, it seems the contempt is mutual.
		
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Don't think I have used the word "scum" actually....  that was you.  All I said is I dread WICKHAM every year as there it creates problems in the area and this year was worse than most because of the documented fight.  You said that the problems people on this thread are reporting were hear say and I linked to the fact that the case I spoke about was definitely true.

I certainly have only been referring to some of those that travel IN to these fairs and cause such problems.  Not an entire society.


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## ApplebyLover (6 June 2013)

galaxy said:



			Don't think I have used the word "scum" actually....  that was you.  .
		
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Fair point - I was not directing my replies at anyone in particular, but at the tone of the whole thread.  The word scum and dregs was used by two people, but not you.


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## quirky (6 June 2013)

I went about 22 years ago and it was a grand weekend out.
From what I recall, the horses appeared to be in good condition.

We went and watched them 'flashing' and that in itself was quite exciting but it was uncomfortable thinking of the hammering the horses legs were taking.

Then in the evening, they had racing (with traps) on a proper track that was the highlight of the weekend.

When did it change?


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## MadisonBelle (6 June 2013)

ApplebyLover said:



			3 dead horses drowned whilst being washed in the river.  Evidence please?  I thought not. 
.
		
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It wasn't me who said 3 horses drowned there but we know 1 did and that is still 1 too many

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...horror-horse-drowns-popular-country-fair.html


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## JackAT (6 June 2013)

Interesting to watch that video. Difficult, but interesting. One thing I kept seeing was a lack of understanding of patience. Quite a few horses I saw there were pondering whether it was safe or not to go, and given a few minutes, patience and praise, may have even took a few tentative steps. Instead, it was "go in, or I'm going to hit you, very hard, with whatever I can find or my boot/fist if I cant find a stick." Which I found to be awful practice. The incident at 2:59, the foal being manhandled into the river, and the man forcing the horse into deeper water were particularly bad, and were three examples of reasons why the fair gets bad press, and in those cases, deservedly.

The RSPCA report/blog was also quite thought provoking. Out of the 1500 horses there, there was only 14 horses taken into RSPCA care, 38 warnings and 192 incidents. Whereas this is 14 horses too many, and it shouldn't get to this point, that is a smaller figure than I expected to read. Thoughts about the RSPCA aside, I think I'd trust those figures as coming from a good source.

All in all, I think that the fair is something that needs to be changed, and there are terrible goings-on every year, alongside other things such as the poor locals scared to leave their front doors for a week every year, which in a civilised country should never happen. However, I think the reason the fair is the way it is goes right back to the attitudes and culture of the travellers who frequent it, and that is a deep rooted problem and something we can't change easily. Perhaps these older, wiser members of the travelling community can go some way to improve the thinking of the newer generation who seem to be the problem, if the reports of a better atmosphere 20 or so years ago are true. I think the approach the RSPCA, volunteers, police and fire service is taking by picking up the pieces, helping the locals feel safe, caring for the mistreated animals, and trying to educate people is all we can do in the short term.

Still, not the best of humankind on show at this time of year in Appleby.


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## Moobucket (6 June 2013)

ApplebyLover said:



			I am not sure if I have ever read a more prejudiced, snobbish, ill-informed, biased, nasty, unsupported, hate-filled garbage account of Appleby Fair and Gypsies as appears in this forum. 

The words 'It must be awful' appear half a dozen times, demonstrating that those writers at last have never been there, but that does not stop them spouting their prejudice.   Apart from the one or people who have written in to defend 'real gypsies' but mostly it is verging on simple racism, and says as much about the character of the writers as it does about the character of Gypsy people...
		
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I speak as a find, based on what I saw with my own eyes. 

I went with an open mind. I actually was of the opinion that the gypsy way of life must be idyllic and was excited to see that culture. Especially after my grandpa who was a joiner told me about working on a Romany gypsy caravan, which was the most beautiful thing he'd ever seen. He said it was immaculate and they were lovely people to deal with. 

What I saw at Appleby was starkly different from what I expected. If you feel this misrepresents your culture you have a lot of work to do changing perceptions. Perhaps some way towards this would be ensuring welfare standards for your horses (if I go to an endurance ride my horse is checked over by a vet before and after), avoiding dangerous riding on main roads and around pedestrians and to try and police the more dubious elements attracted by the fair.


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## ApplebyLover (6 June 2013)

Thanks JackAT - at last a voice of reason.  I can't argue with any of that. In particular I agree that there certainly is some anti-social behaviour at Appleby, which seems to be on the increase in almost all sections of society. Maybe the older generation can bring it round - I know that they are trying, and trying hard, at Appleby Fair, to take it back to its roots as a horse fair, to crack down on anti-social behaviour, to apply the same rules to everyone, Gypsy and non Gyspy, and to improve the standard of animal welfare. My rant was against the prejudiced assumption that Appleby Fair is uniquely awful, because it is has been taken over by 'dregs' and 'scum'.


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## Moobucket (6 June 2013)

ApplebyLover said:



			Thanks JackAT - at last a voice of reason.  I can't argue with any of that. In particular I agree that there certainly is some anti-social behaviour at Appleby, which seems to be on the increase in almost all sections of society. Maybe the older generation can bring it round - I know that they are trying, and trying hard, at Appleby Fair, to take it back to its roots as a horse fair, to crack down on anti-social behaviour, to apply the same rules to everyone, Gypsy and non Gyspy, and to improve the standard of animal welfare. My rant was against the prejudiced assumption that Appleby Fair is uniquely awful, because it is has been taken over by 'dregs' and 'scum'.
		
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Here Here. If it helps I'm equally negative about people at large. Just not a fan of em.


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## pansymouse (6 June 2013)

It annoys me that non-gypsies are called racist and lacking in cultutral understanding for failing to condone the worst excesses of gypsy behaviour yet many gypsies feel it is their good given right to flaunt their contenpt and lack of understanding of the majority of the people in this country and break the law with impunity.


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## RunToEarth (6 June 2013)

ApplebyLover said:



			"We have been taken over by the absolute dregs of society."  Prejudice. There are a majority of highly moral and respectable people attend Appleby Fair.
		
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I went there two years ago and I can honestly say you have to be deaf dumb and blind to believe that, the vast majority of what I saw was not my impression of people who have morals of any kind. 




			"*If it had not been a member of that society* I am sure they would be sent down for years!!! It is just accepted from them for some reason..."   That Society - what all of it? (Racist)
		
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 That law abiding society perhaps?




			"What actually happens there?
Murder,shootings, rape, human castrations, lots of human poo. Horses thrashed to death, then left to die at the side of the road. "  
This is about Appleby Fair of course - these things dont happen anywhare else.
		
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Are you suggesting that because atrocities happen elsewhere it is to be accepted at Appleby? 




			"so likely the fair has been taken over by the scum section of this part of society"    The Fair has not been taken over by the nasties - the Fair is generally well ordered, closely supervised by Police, RSPCA, Health and Safely, Trading Standards, HMRC, and Market Licensing.  "taken over by the scum section of this part of society"   is simply wrong, and is simply prejudice. Racist at that.
		
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I would happily call some of the people I saw at Appleby scum, because they were behaving like scum - I cannot abide animal cruelty. 




			"It's this new breed who both normal law abiding folk and the Police are scared of, as they show no respect to anyone."  Ditto. The police are no more scared of them than they are of drunken louts on a Saturday night, terrorists, or football hooligans. Misleading scaremongering nonsense.
		
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I don't believe that for one minute.




			I am not trying to turn this into anything - just point out that it is full of inaccuracy, prejudice and misleading nonsense, based on rumour and hearsay. I still think you missed the point.
		
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Personally my feelings on Appleby are based on me going there and reading the news most years.


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## indie999 (6 June 2013)

As long as anyone and ANYONE who is breaking the law is brought to task etc and not just because Appleby is an excuse to show off excess. That will be good for everyone and every horse. Simple as that, no turning blind eye.


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## Gypley (6 June 2013)

ApplebyLover said:



			. It is not a 'card to be played' - racism is the simple everyday habit making false assumptions about a whole group of people because of the behaviour of some of them.
		
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Sorry Applebylover, but i believe its called stereotyping, not racism. I think racism it thown about far too willy nilly these days.


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## justabob (6 June 2013)

ApplebyLover said:



			Thanks JackAT - at last a voice of reason.  I can't argue with any of that. In particular I agree that there certainly is some anti-social behaviour at Appleby, which seems to be on the increase in almost all sections of society. Maybe the older generation can bring it round - I know that they are trying, and trying hard, at Appleby Fair, to take it back to its roots as a horse fair, to crack down on anti-social behaviour, to apply the same rules to everyone, Gypsy and non Gyspy, and to improve the standard of animal welfare. My rant was against the prejudiced assumption that Appleby Fair is uniquely awful, because it is has been taken over by 'dregs' and 'scum'.
		
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Your name is not Billy Walsh by any chance is it. How do you explain all the dead horses that the knackerman pick up from Winters yard? Farming community here and we all know the knackermen.


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## Patterdale (6 June 2013)

I'm afraid I'd stick with the 'dregs of society' comment with regards to Appleby. 

I'm sure there are some decent people who go, but anyone who's been in recent years can't possibly seriously deny that it's been taken over by abusive and lawless people who are far more discriminatory about us 'gorjers' than most of us would be about them. 

I wonder how it would go down in a big travellers camp if a few thousand gorjers set up camp on their doorstep for a week for a jolly then left their garden sheds and gloveboxes considerably lighter than when we arrived


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## GeeGeeboy (6 June 2013)

Gypsies and travellers are not a seperately race. Prejudice against them is NOT racism.


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## Moobucket (6 June 2013)

Ugh that video where the horse falls astride the concrete corner stone, trying to avoid going in the water.... hideous.


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## Gypley (6 June 2013)

GeeGeeboy said:



			Gypsies and travellers are not a seperately race. Prejudice against them is NOT racism.
		
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EXACTLY!!! 
The word is STEREOTYPING !!!!!!


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## ApplebyLover (6 June 2013)

Gypley said:



			Sorry Applebylover, but i believe its called stereotyping, not racism. I think racism it thown about far too willy nilly these days.
		
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OK, maybe, but my definition of racism is this: (OED) 

	the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races
	 prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that ones own race is superior.

Gypsies are an ethnic racial group, and much of this thread characterises them as dregs, scum, thieves, murderers, rapists, and morally inferior. 
The assumption of moral superiority over people who attend Appleby Fair,  on the basis of the bad behaviour of some of them, seems to fit the definition fairly well.  I agree it is stereotyping, but i think there is a strong ethnic dimension.


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## quirky (6 June 2013)

quirky said:



			I went about 22 years ago and it was a grand weekend out.
From what I recall, the horses appeared to be in good condition.

We went and watched them 'flashing' and that in itself was quite exciting but it was uncomfortable thinking of the hammering the horses legs were taking.

Then in the evening, they had racing (with traps) on a proper track that was the highlight of the weekend.

When did it change?
		
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Anybody going to answer my question, or are you just going to keep on sniping at each other?


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## Patterdale (6 June 2013)

I'm afraid I'd stick with the 'dregs of society' comment with regards to Appleby. 

I'm sure there are some decent people who go, but anyone who's been in recent years can't possibly seriously deny that it's been taken over by abusive and lawless people who are far more discriminatory about us 'gorjers' than most of us would be about them. 

I wonder how it would go down in a big travellers camp if a few thousand gorjers set up camp on their doorstep for a week for a jolly then left their garden sheds and gloveboxes considerably lighter than when they arrived


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## Cherryade (6 June 2013)

IF this is not a true view to the overall 'race' and there are many 'good' out there, why do they let the 'bad' overshadow them and in effect bring the whole 'race' down to this level. It is in fact prejudice, pre-judging therefore there has to be something, some sort of behaviour to judge and mainly from what i can see it is appalling behaviour. Why are you not as a 'race' trying to educate and put a stop to this and improve society's view overall?


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## ApplebyLover (6 June 2013)

GeeGeeboy said:



			Gypsies and travellers are not a seperately race. Prejudice against them is NOT racism.
		
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Wrong. 

Fact: Gypsies and Travellers are minority ethnic groups and legally protected under the Race Relations Act, so discrimination against them is unlawful.   English Romany Gypsies and Irish Travellers have the same rights to race relations protection as other recognised ethnic minority groups

Fact: They experience high levels of discrimination and prejudice.

Fact: The Nazis considered them to be a separate race, and they were hounded relentlessly. On December 16, 1942, Himmler issued an order to send all Gypsies to the concentration camps. 

The British government definition of gypsies and travellers does in fact extend beyond the racial and ethnic boundaries to include 'Persons of nomadic habit of life whatever their race or origin' so you are partly right, but the fact remains that discrimination against them is illegal, and they are an officially recognised ethnic minority group.


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## Patterdale (6 June 2013)

Yeah, they do experience high levels of prejudice. 

Wonder why?

You can't possibly say that the majority of those who go to Appleby are law abiding, decent and respectful citizens?? 

If so, you must be going to a different Appleby.....


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## Patterdale (6 June 2013)

Ps the rest of your post was bob-all to do about Appleby, or the gypsies of 2013.


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## wildwest (6 June 2013)

quirky .... i have been several times and i have always found it to be as you did
i love it and im off there saturday for the weekend, cant bloody wait :}
applebylover you are sadly wasting your breath , sheep and followers springs to mind !!!
go see for yourself then judge , anyway whoevers going enjoy i know i will.


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## justabob (6 June 2013)

Patterdale said:



			Ps the rest of your post was bob-all to do about Appleby, or the gypsies of 2013.
		
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Lol, silly Appleby lover. I hope she has a lovely 4 days there and enjoys those lovely lavatories that the Travellers have very kindly supplied............for the general public. They wont be using them that for sure, they use other peoples gardens oh and they do like a good old poo in the launderette.


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## justabob (6 June 2013)

wildwest said:



			quirky .... i have been several times and i have always found it to be as you did
i love it and im off there saturday for the weekend, cant bloody wait :}
applebylover you are sadly wasting your breath , sheep and followers springs to mind !!!
go see for yourself then judge , anyway whoevers going enjoy i know i will.
		
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In the old days you might also have enjoyed public hangings too.


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## Patterdale (6 June 2013)

Justabob I can't quote but that last sentence made me snort!


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## Moobucket (6 June 2013)

justabob said:



			In the old days you might also have enjoyed public hangings too.
		
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Hahah!


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## wildwest (6 June 2013)

justabob if it was you i might just enjoy public hanging :}


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## justabob (6 June 2013)

wildwest said:



			justabob if it was you i might just enjoy public hanging :}
		
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There would be a large queue to get in I assure you.


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## ApplebyLover (6 June 2013)

wildwest said:



			applebylover you are sadly wasting your breath, sheep and followers springs to mind !!!
		
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I know, I know, - but they are like children. If nobody puts them right they will grow up to be nasty people....forgive them, for they know not what they do.


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## Patterdale (6 June 2013)

Yeah, I'm sure we could all learn a lot from you, 'applebylover'


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## Cherryade (6 June 2013)

ApplebyLover said:



			I know, I know, - but they are like children. If nobody puts them right they will grow up to be nasty people....forgive them, for they know not what they do.


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 Please do educate us


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## justabob (6 June 2013)

ApplebyLover said:



			I know, I know, - but they are like children. If nobody puts them right they will grow up to be nasty people....forgive them, for they know not what they do.


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You might like to start your crusade on Fair Hill, there will a few there that need putting right.


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## nix123 (6 June 2013)

forgive them...for they know not what they do....... now go and nick them spare wheels off that 4x4, those lawnmowers/anything else in the shed, the kids bikes ohh and dont forget the livery yards tack.


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## The_snoopster (6 June 2013)

Proof of horse drowning...........yes indeed I do have proof

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-461252/Spectators-horror-horse-drowns-popular-country-fair.html

And sorry I do not have proof of the bloated corpses I saw, it was not something I wanted to photgraph as a memory of my day out.


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## PingPongPony (6 June 2013)

Just a quick question ApplebyLover. If you love Appleby so much, then why aren't you there enjoying it? And if you're already there then it really can't be that good if you are sat on a public forum arguing with a bunch of strange women???
Its just because when I go to an event I enjoy, Olympia for example, I don't sit on a public forum telling everyone how great it is, simply because im having too much fun and don't really care what anyone else thinks?


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## wildwest (6 June 2013)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFdSkTCPMtE


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## JackAT (6 June 2013)

PingPongPony said:



			sat on a public forum arguing with a bunch of strange women???
		
Click to expand...

+1 man.


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## tessybear (6 June 2013)

Oh god this is entertaining


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## tallyho! (6 June 2013)

So what? 

Too many horses anyway. Certainly don't need any more coloured feathery types. Drown em all!!!! Then have em on the barbecue as steaks! 

I honestly do not know why you are all moaning about horses and humans havin a bath. The Indians have an annual bath with the elephants in the Ganges, here, the travellers have an annual bath in the Eden! What's the problem?


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## pippixox (6 June 2013)

I think time seems to have a habit of making things either better or worse, good things don't seem to stay the same.
I almost see gypsy's are viewed the same as that of teenagers. everyone see's the drunk teenagers throwing up on our pavements at 4am, or breaking peoples windows, stealing cars and taking drugs in parks... but obviously this is not every teenager, but the bad ones give other teenagers a bad name.
Appleby is like a music festival, which sadly now are sometimes ruined with people who burn tents and wreck things for 'fun'. there are some people who go to enjoy the music and a bit of a booze up, but the more problems and incidents, the less 'normal' people go and the worse it gets.
sadly Appleby involves horses, not just humans, who get caught up in the rowdy affair. 
this is just my opinion. but horse abuse is never right, where ever it happens and it definitely happens at Appleby


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## justabob (6 June 2013)

pippixox said:



			I think time seems to have a habit of making things either better or worse, good things don't seem to stay the same.
I almost see gypsy's are viewed the same as that of teenagers. everyone see's the drunk teenagers throwing up on our pavements at 4am, or breaking peoples windows, stealing cars and taking drugs in parks... but obviously this is not every teenager, but the bad ones give other teenagers a bad name.
Appleby is like a music festival, which sadly now are sometimes ruined with people who burn tents and wreck things for 'fun'. there are some people who go to enjoy the music and a bit of a booze up, but the more problems and incidents, the less 'normal' people go and the worse it gets.
sadly Appleby involves horses, not just humans, who get caught up in the rowdy affair. 
this is just my opinion. but horse abuse is never right, where ever it happens and it definitely happens at Appleby
		
Click to expand...

Good post.


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## TandD (6 June 2013)

ApplebyLover said:



			Fact: Gypsies and Travellers are minority ethnic groups and legally protected under the Race Relations Act, so discrimination against them is unlawful.   English Romany Gypsies and Irish Travellers have the same rights to race relations protection as other recognised ethnic minority groups

The British government definition of gypsies and travellers does in fact extend beyond the racial and ethnic boundaries to include 'Persons of nomadic habit of life whatever their race or origin' so you are partly right, but the fact remains that discrimination against them is illegal, and they are an officially recognised ethnic minority group.
		
Click to expand...

nomadic habit = moblie, travels, migratory

the gypsies and travellers that are protected (as they are ethnic groups) are the ones that travel...... these ones that travel are often 'proper' gypsies, with many generations together passing down their way of life, who have high care and welfare standards for their horses, as their life without these would be non existent....... i would assume that these are the sort of people appleby fair was made by, so they could buy/sell and gather together for a few weeks.......

however there are those that live in large 'mobile' trailers, or even houses now that still call themselves 'travellers'. they may well be descended from English Romany Gypsies and Irish Travellers, but do not hold the same values or traditions.... these people do not deserve the rights to race relations protection, as they do not full-fill the government description of a traveller! these people are not in the minority, and look like any other 'family' of britain. appleby fair was not made for these people to go and mess around in, causing havoc and creating news headlines!

it is a shame that the latter ruin it for the former and the general public, because it could be a fantasic place to learn about the true travellers way of life, when they so rarely open their doors!

pippixox: i thoroughly agree with you!


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## indie999 (6 June 2013)

Marble Arch?


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## FunnyFlipper (6 June 2013)

RunToEarth said:



			Rileyboy?
		
Click to expand...


Not RileyBoy. Riley boy was a regular member of this forum, who still posts very regularly...


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## Patterdale (6 June 2013)

Care to expand on that FF?


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## FunnyFlipper (6 June 2013)

Patterdale said:



			Care to expand on that FF? 

Click to expand...

A certain male poster, with a lovely grey horse...


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## weesophz (6 June 2013)

FunnyFlipper said:



			A certain male poster, with a lovely grey horse... 



Click to expand...

OOOOOOOOOOOH


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## justabob (6 June 2013)

FunnyFlipper said:



			A certain male poster, with a lovely grey horse... 



Click to expand...

No, no not Armas?


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## justabob (6 June 2013)

Load of old rubbish, you are a troll FF.


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## FfionWinnie (6 June 2013)

CobsGalore said:



			Haha it can't be haha cos he's not laughing haha
		
Click to expand...

An far too literate. Haha


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## tessybear (6 June 2013)

FF is probably Appleby lover and sounds like they are out for an argument tonight !


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## FunnyFlipper (6 June 2013)

tessybear said:



			FF is probably Appleby lover and sounds like they are out for an argument tonight !
		
Click to expand...

No, I can't stand appleby. Its disgusting.. 


I was just pointing out who RB actually was...


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## FfionWinnie (6 June 2013)

tessybear said:



			FF is probably Appleby lover and sounds like they are out for an argument tonight !
		
Click to expand...

The alliteration in the name is a clue perhaps


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## lula (6 June 2013)

Being a person of minority ethnic descent in 2013 sounds like a pretty good place to be. 
sort of like having diplomatic immunity, except racial.

you can go around being contemptuous and insulting to the majority of the population of the country you live in, go around nicking stuff, illegally occupying privately owned land, fly grazing your livestock, generally behaving like animals and get treated with kid gloves by the local police force who's policies are a softly softly approach on the handling of minorities for fear of being accused of racism, and if anyone dares complain you get a hundred bleeding liberals rushing to your defense and accusing people of discriminating against you.



Excellent! where can i sign up?


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## quirky (6 June 2013)

FfionWinnie said:



			The alliteration in the name is a clue perhaps 

Click to expand...

I was thinking along the same lines, especially as the previous alliteration had/has an issue with the person they are now alleging is RB.
Gawd, it's blummin tiring, I can't be doing with it all


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## weesophz (6 June 2013)

lula said:



			Being a person of minority ethnic descent in 2013 sounds like a pretty good place to be. 
sort of like having diplomatic immunity, except its racial.

you can go around being contemptuous and insulting to the majority of the population of the country you live in, go around nicking stuff, illegally occupying privately owned land, fly grazing your livestock, generally behaving like animals and get treated with kid gloves by the local police force who's policies are a softly softly approach on the handling of minorities for fear of being accused of racism, and if anyone dares complain you get a hundred bleeding liberals rushing to your defense and accusing people of discriminating against you.



Excellent! where can i sign up?
		
Click to expand...

nail on the head. 

not relevant to this thread but theres a manager in my work who is the rudest man ever, no respect for customers or any of the people he works with, clicks his fingers at you when he wants your attention. he also smells like he hasnt washed in a year. he's an ethnic minority. he's pulled the racism card once when he was pulled up about his behaviour, company is scared to do anything else about him.


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## justabob (6 June 2013)

quirky said:



			I was thinking along the same lines, especially as the previous alliteration had/has an issue with the person they are now alleging is RB.
Gawd, it's blummin tiring, I can't be doing with it all 

Click to expand...

I know it is not DD, for gods sake.


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## Cherryade (6 June 2013)

quirky said:



			I was thinking along the same lines, especially as the previous alliteration had/has an issue with the person they are now alleging is RB.
Gawd, it's blummin tiring, I can't be doing with it all 

Click to expand...

If im thinking along the same lines re person, WHY? Why claim that The male poster with a lovely grey horse is RB???


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## justabob (6 June 2013)

Oddsocks. said:



			If im thinking along the same lines re person, WHY? Why claim that The male poster with a lovely grey horse is RB???

Click to expand...

You of course would know so much and be so wise Oddsocks, having just joined this forum.


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## weesophz (6 June 2013)

justabob said:



			You of course would know so much and be so wise Oddsocks, having just joined this forum.
		
Click to expand...

this is getting good


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## tessybear (6 June 2013)

Claws are out tonight


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## weesophz (6 June 2013)

i usually miss the good stuff on here, i thank my being ill for not being able to sleep and letting me see this


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## justabob (6 June 2013)

weesophz said:



			this is getting good 

Click to expand...

I thought it might.


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## quirky (6 June 2013)

justabob said:



			I know it is not DD, for gods sake.
		
Click to expand...

Don't 'for god's sake' me  ... it was somebody else who suggested it.
I just concurred that it had crossed my mind too .

Justabob - I know I'm a little late to the party  but I have just realised who you are. How you doing? All good I hope .... well maybe this time next week you will be fine again


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## justabob (6 June 2013)

quirky said:



			Don't 'for god's sake' me  ... it was somebody else who suggested it.
I just concurred that it had crossed my mind too .

Justabob - I know I'm a little late to the party  but I have just realised who you are. How you doing? All good I hope .... well maybe this time next week you will be fine again 

Click to expand...

Hello quirky, it is nice to meet up again.


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## quirky (6 June 2013)

justabob said:



			Hello quirky, it is nice to meet up again. 

Click to expand...

Well that made me snigger , on that note, my bed is calling me!


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## justabob (6 June 2013)

quirky said:



			Well that made me snigger , on that note, my bed is calling me!
		
Click to expand...

Mine too.  Meet up in the morning no doubt.


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## TandD (6 June 2013)

well the daily fail have got nicely in on the action!!!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-Cumbrian-village-300-year-old-tradition.html
have they been paid to write this? not one bad word!!! very suprised

and did you all know... farriers mould grooves into hooves!!!!!
and 5 pic down.....isnt that bit upside down????


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## Jackster14 (6 June 2013)

weesophz said:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzJ0jc_dbGg

these all look like really caring and respectful riders who obviously understand that their horses are terrified.
		
Click to expand...

Sickening. I'd like to stick my boot up their a**e and chuck them into something they're petrified off. Nasty.


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## justabob (6 June 2013)

Jackster14 said:



			Sickening. I'd like to stick my boot up their a**e and chuck them into something they're petrified off. Nasty.
		
Click to expand...

Like a lavatory? they seem to be a bit shy of them.


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## cassie summers (6 June 2013)

Fransurrey said:



			If Appleby is too far, they are always welcome to Moulsecoomb in Brighton, where certain types seem to think it's a holiday park and despite the installation of giant Biffa bins, the council still has to go on after them and clear up the almighty mess. They move between three areas, all of them sports grounds. Currently they're on a cricket pitch. I feel for you Appleby locals. Being close to Epsom is bad enough!
		
Click to expand...

haha i live in effingham and will say no more


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## Cinnamontoast (6 June 2013)

FunnyFlipper said:



			A certain male poster, with a lovely grey horse... 



Click to expand...

Oh do shut up, you idiot. Prat.


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## Holly Hocks (6 June 2013)

justabob said:



			Like a lavatory? they seem to be a bit shy of them.
		
Click to expand...

You are so on form tonight Justabob - I want to go to bed for another early start but just waiting to see what you come out with next...


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## justabob (6 June 2013)

Holly Hocks said:



			You are so on form tonight Justabob - I want to go to bed for another early start but just waiting to see what you come out with next... 

Click to expand...

I try my best HH. xx


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## Patterdale (6 June 2013)

Who did you used to be justabob? 
Despite being a proud mother, I always enjoy your no nonsense, to the point, anti child posts


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## rachi20x (6 June 2013)

From what I see, just because your great grand dad Jimmy or whoever was, was a traveller does not make yourself one. 

Particularly if you're nicking anything and everything, abusing your horses, causing fights and displaying other aspects of anti-social behaviour to the extent that other members of the community who (dare I say it) pay their taxes. You are just a thug. Not a traveller. 

I do feel for the ones in the minority who are nice, because I know of some and they can actually be honest and pleasant people. However, there are too many in the majority who have made it impossible to ever give the term gypsy or traveller a clean name, unless the authorities actually DO SOMETHING and bring the perpetrators to justice

And comparing Appleby to Glastonbury is pointless. Glastonbury has a safe atmosphere, no fights, a safe environment for children and NO ANIMAL ABUSE. Sure mess is left, but at least it's not knackered horses left for the authorities to destroy because there's no hope for it. 

And it's not racism, it doesn't matter what group of people it is. The fact is it's a horrible event (which yes, used to be a great weekend!) where countless crimes and acts of anti-social behaviour takes place. People would still condemn it no matter what 'race' or 'ethnic group' were involved.


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## justabob (6 June 2013)

Patterdale said:



			Who did you used to be justabob? 
Despite being a proud mother, I always enjoy your no nonsense, to the point, anti child posts  

Click to expand...

Why thank you Patterdale. Your posts always make a lot of sense to me too. xx


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## Armas (6 June 2013)

cinnamontoast said:



			Oh do shut up, you idiot. Prat.
		
Click to expand...

Well said CT,just ignore the troll. I am lol


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## Baggybreeches (6 June 2013)

justabob said:



			Well it is all kicking off here, they have arrived. It is dreadful. We have been taken over by the absolute dregs of society.
		
Click to expand...

What a charming and inclusive post, I am sure you will not notice any of the nice people or good horsemanship with an attitude like that?


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## kat2290 (6 June 2013)

Can somebody catch me up, Im lost! Who's who, And who's not who?!


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## platypus (6 June 2013)

kat2290 said:



			Can somebody catch me up, Im lost! Who's who, And who's not who?!
		
Click to expand...

I dont think anyone is anyoneFalse accusations as far as i can see .


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## DressageCob (6 June 2013)




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## tinpot (6 June 2013)

they are the dregs but if people didn't go to watch then this fair wouldn't happen so who is worst you or them sicking


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## Fii (6 June 2013)

tinpot said:



			they are the dregs but if people didn't go to watch then this fair wouldn't happen so who is worst you or them sicking
		
Click to expand...

yes it would, it was started by gypsies for gypsies, so the general public have nothing to do with whether it happens or not!

Anyway i wrote out a long and indepth post and my computer ate it, am orf to bed now!


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## penhwnllys_stardust (6 June 2013)

I dread hearing and seeing the stories every year, when will it be stopped?


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## GeeGeeboy (6 June 2013)

I just watched the video. Wish I hadn't. Horrific. It should be banned. Was glad when that coloured dumped the guy in the water though, bloody idiot.


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## tallyho! (7 June 2013)

penhwnllys_stardust said:



			I dread hearing and seeing the stories every year, when will it be stopped? 

Click to expand...

When someone drops a bomb on it.


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## lula (7 June 2013)

risky_business said:



			Horrid 

That video was distressing too 

Click to expand...

.. ...


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## lula (7 June 2013)

helenalbert said:











Click to expand...

 that girl has a gob i am itching to put a rusty bit into


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## slumdog (7 June 2013)

Prejudiced and snobby apparently...

https://www.facebook.com/groups/11384169235/


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## GeeGeeboy (7 June 2013)

Slumdog-don't forget "thick heads" as one of them so elequently put it!


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## pootleperkin (7 June 2013)

So you remember I said yesterday that they were letting foals get onto the busy A road that I live next to and seemingly not worry about it? OH stopped to shoo one back off the road, as have other people I know. Well some of the owners had cobbled together an electric fence, but obviously not well enough as this morning, one of said foals was on the road again and hit by a car - unfortunately for it, it was not killed outright.

First casualty I have heard of so far. 

Why oh why do some of them think they are immune from everyday dangers that we would be incredibly worried about - as I say, I don't even like riding on that road between bridleways!


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## Amymay (7 June 2013)

pootleperkin said:



			So you remember I said yesterday that they were letting foals get onto the busy A road that I live next to and seemingly not worry about it? OH stopped to shoo one back off the road, as have other people I know. Well some of the owners had cobbled together an electric fence, but obviously not well enough as this morning, one of said foals was on the road again and hit by a car - unfortunately for it, it was not killed outright.

First casualty I have heard of so far. 

Why oh why do some of them think they are immune from everyday dangers that we would be incredibly worried about - as I say, I don't even like riding on that road between bridleways!
		
Click to expand...

So stick that on your FB page!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Disgusting.


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## pootleperkin (7 June 2013)

I'm quite live and let live, but I just hate the welfare issues associated with the fair.

Must say most of the horses going past our way have been in good condition, maybe better than previous years, but it's the handling aspect that gets me. 

That said, I was recently at the Feria del Caballo in Jerez, Spain, which is essentially a classier Appleby with Andalusians....however welfare issues there too - OH in particular was horrified to find that the in hand high school horses had toothed metal bars under their cavesson nosebands and horrible sores and nose disfigurements to show for...not very nice at all


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## RunToEarth (7 June 2013)

my friend who is a photographer is there this week, he uploaded some photos last night to fb, might see if he is happy with me sharing them on here. There are some lovely ones, horses bright and alert, ears pricked, rider looking happy. There are a few horrendous ones where I feel sure if that kind of behaviour were demonstrated at any level of competition there would be a ban and a welfare issue raised.


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## pootleperkin (7 June 2013)

RunToEarth said:



			my friend who is a photographer is there this week, he uploaded some photos last night to fb, might see if he is happy with me sharing them on here. There are some lovely ones, horses bright and alert, ears pricked, rider looking happy. There are a few horrendous ones where I feel sure if that kind of behaviour were demonstrated at any level of competition there would be a ban and a welfare issue raised.
		
Click to expand...

Agreed RTE, there are some nice looking healthy horses there, from what I have seen of my friend's photos also on FB. As usual, it's the few that spoil it for the others.


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## Rollin (7 June 2013)

CobsGalore said:



			Did someone say human castrations? 

Click to expand...

Doesn't this stop the fighting?  (Taking off the boy bits)


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## Natch (7 June 2013)

I love that applebylover has mentioned hho on the facebook page! Coo-ee! *waves*

Would Applebylover have an opinion on Iraq as a safe holiday destination?  Perhaps Afghanistan? After all, I doubt she has been.  

I'm perfectly happy forming an opinion that I don't want to visit appleby  based on what is reported in the media and on hho forums. Good and bad is reported and I think there will be both there, and I don't want to witness the stuff that is reported. 

I do feel very sorry for those travellers who are genuine good horsrmen and are law abiding, it must be very difficult for them,  too, with the louts ruining their reputation and fair. Hope any trouble this year is well contained and minimal.


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## M_G (7 June 2013)

ApplebyLover said:



			I know, I know, - but they are like children. If nobody puts them right they will grow up to be nasty people....forgive them, for they know not what they do.


Click to expand...

A few years ago I was speaking to a proper older traveller gentleman (I dont know if he is romany or not so I use the generic term traveller so as to avoid argument) I asked him about Appelby Fair and said how I would love to go and see all the horses his reply was stay away girl its not what it used to be you will only get upset.

I have taken this mans advice and never gone, he goes and sells a few and buys a few but to this day says stay away girl its not what you want to see.


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## Baggybreeches (7 June 2013)

I agree it's not what it used to be ( a place where little children could wander about safely until dark) but then where is nowadays? 
The horse that was hit by a car was (according to my sister who is there!) was rammed by the car who pushed through the people and horses.
And if anyone would like me or my sister to justify our experience and horse care/welfare knowledge GO RIGHT AHEAD!
Calling all Appleby visitors is like saying all Muslims are bombers? Xenophobic much?
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...1324121556&type=1&theater&notif_t=photo_reply


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## ChestnutTinker (7 June 2013)

Never been, although the videos are shocking!!


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## justabob (7 June 2013)

Baggybreeches said:



			I agree it's not what it used to be ( a place where little children could wander about safely until dark) but then where is nowadays? 
The horse that was hit by a car was (according to my sister who is there!) was rammed by the car who pushed through the people and horses.
And if anyone would like me or my sister to justify our experience and horse care/welfare knowledge GO RIGHT AHEAD!
Calling all Appleby visitors is like saying all Muslims are bombers? Xenophobic much?
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...1324121556&type=1&theater&notif_t=photo_reply

Click to expand...

What planet are you on?


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## tessybear (7 June 2013)

according to the facebook group guys we

"ent got a clu" 

and are "snobs" ... funny how they ignore the video evidence


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## ChestnutTinker (7 June 2013)

tessybear said:



			according to the facebook group guys we

"ent got a clu" 

and are "snobs" ... funny how they ignore the video evidence 

Click to expand...

Which facebook group is this? I want to see what's going on!! (Feeling left out  )


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## weesophz (7 June 2013)

laughing at the facebook page, jeezo they are deluded.


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## Slightly Foxed (7 June 2013)

pennyturner said:



			I wouldn't judge gypsy society based on the more visible types described here.  I'm sure you wouldn't want someone judging 'you and your kind' based on the aftermath of a west end football derby.

I had the pleasure of taking an elderly romany gentleman (lived locally for many years, and a friend) to Stow fair a few years ago.  He was proper old school, and seemed to know everyone.  For me it felt like giving the Queen a lift to Ascott.  These fairs originate as marriage and trade events, where deals are done, and friendships/kinships kept alive.  They're essential for nomadic people.

I drive carriages, so have dealings with both irish and romany types quite regularly, and have found them honest and decent.  I'm sure many of them are as pissed off with the out of control element as everyone else.
		
Click to expand...

Wise words PT


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## Holly Hocks (7 June 2013)

Baggybreeches said:



			I agree it's not what it used to be ( a place where little children could wander about safely until dark) but then where is nowadays? 
The horse that was hit by a car was (according to my sister who is there!) was rammed by the car who pushed through the people and horses.
And if anyone would like me or my sister to justify our experience and horse care/welfare knowledge GO RIGHT AHEAD!
Calling all Appleby visitors is like saying all Muslims are bombers? Xenophobic much?
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...1324121556&type=1&theater&notif_t=photo_reply

Click to expand...

Faceache link says "content currently unavailable"


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## ChestnutTinker (7 June 2013)

*searches through facebook pages about Appleby Fair*


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## Baggybreeches (7 June 2013)

justabob said:



			What planet are you on?
		
Click to expand...

Usually on the planet earth, working hard, paying taxes & bills and enjoying my animals without interfering in other peoples business or lifestyle.
Do you read the Daily Mail per chance?
Pleased to speak with you too.


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## Baggybreeches (7 June 2013)

Holly Hocks said:



			Faceache link says "content currently unavailable"
		
Click to expand...

Ah sorry the settings must be friends only. It's a picture of a police van and the road closed after the pony was hit.


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## Baggybreeches (7 June 2013)

tessybear said:



			according to the facebook group guys we

"ent got a clu" 

and are "snobs" ... funny how they ignore the video evidence 

Click to expand...

The video evidence I have seen is ANIMAL AID propaganda, these people believe it is immoral to ride horses full stop, so please continue with your hypocrisy based on ignorance, either you are in AA's camp or not?


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## pootleperkin (7 June 2013)

Was that another horse hurt at the fair then? The foal that i spoke about wasn't at the fair, it was no where near crowds, but on a busy A road where the travellers stay on their way or sometimes during the fair ( we still have loads on the roadside now). I should also say I have since found out it wasn't this morning that it happened - i heard the news from a friend whose GP husband hadnt told her til this morning - it was hit a day or so ago.


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## ozpoz (7 June 2013)

Pennyturner, that is just what I was thinking.
I'm appalled at some of the generalising on this thread.


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## tessybear (7 June 2013)

Baggybreeches said:



			The video evidence I have seen is ANIMAL AID propaganda, these people believe it is immoral to ride horses full stop, so please continue with your hypocrisy based on ignorance, either you are in AA's camp or not?
		
Click to expand...

 yawn . 

That is all.


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## Baggybreeches (7 June 2013)

pootleperkin said:



			Was that another horse hurt at the fair then? The foal that i spoke about wasn't at the fair, it was no where near crowds, but on a busy A road where the travellers stay on their way or sometimes during the fair ( we still have loads on the roadside now). I should also say I have since found out it wasn't this morning that it happened - i heard the news from a friend whose GP husband hadnt told her til this morning - it was hit a day or so ago.
		
Click to expand...

According to my sister (who again is there and although a tad dramatic (as small sisters are) is usually accurate). There was a car that ploughed through the crowds and hit people and a pony


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## pootleperkin (7 June 2013)

Apologies if it is the same incident  - I live very close to where it happened and was quite upset to hear about it given that OH and others had moved the foals off the road previously - why wasn't it sorted out?


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## ChestnutTinker (7 June 2013)

I'm completely lost here, Who is commenting _for_ and who is commenting _against_ Appleby Fair???


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## Baggybreeches (7 June 2013)

tessybear said:



 yawn . 


That is all.
		
Click to expand...

Tessybear if it wasn't for travellers and their way of life you wouldn't have/have had the coloured cob in your profile picture (and as it is they are no really my cup of tea, but each to their own as the non-judgemental amongst us would say!)


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## tessybear (7 June 2013)

ChestnutTinker said:



			I'm completely lost here, Who is commenting _for_ and who is commenting _against_ Appleby Fair??? 

Click to expand...

I don't have a clue anymore either lol ! 

Im leaving this thread here, before i say something stupid


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## ChestnutTinker (7 June 2013)

tessybear said:



			I don't have a clue anymore either lol ! 

Im leaving this thread here, before i say something stupid 

Click to expand...

I might leave too, as i'm seriously confused


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## Baggybreeches (7 June 2013)

tessybear said:



			I don't have a clue anymore either lol ! 

Im leaving this thread here, before i say something stupid 

Click to expand...

Some would argue it's too late for that............


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## tessybear (7 June 2013)

Baggybreeches said:



			Tessybear if it wasn't for travellers and their way of life you wouldn't have/have had the coloured cob in your profile picture (and as it is they are no really my cup of tea, but each to their own as the non-judgemental amongst us would say!)
		
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Hey hey ! I don't have much against travellers, i dont like the way SOME treat their horses, like i dont like the way SOME non travellers treat their horses.

It's fine you don't have to own her nor would i expect everyone to love her, she is my horse  

And in regards to your above comment, Frankly i don't give two


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## justabob (7 June 2013)

Baggybreeches said:



			The video evidence I have seen is ANIMAL AID propaganda, these people believe it is immoral to ride horses full stop, so please continue with your hypocrisy based on ignorance, either you are in AA's camp or not?
		
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I agree with you Bb, Animal Aid is not normally my friend and they have waited to get the unpleasant side of the chaos at Appleby. But you can not be under any illusion that it never happens, it is on film. I can assure you I am neither hypocritical or ignorant. I live here among it and you just visit.


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## Baggybreeches (7 June 2013)

tessybear said:



			It's fine you don't have to own her nor would i expect everyone to love her, she is my horse  

And in regards to your above comment, Frankly i don't give two
		
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I wasn't criticising your horse I was merely pointing out her origins, and trust me I have NEVER lost sleep over anyone's opinion of me.
 As I am sure you can see I am eloquent (although not always pleasant  ) and educated and I abhor the notion that my friends and relatives are being spoken about in this vitriolic manner.
Again I refer to my comment of previous about calling all muslims terrorists.


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## ChestnutTinker (7 June 2013)

Would anybody like a nice cup of tea and some biscuits? Might help us calm this situation


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## tessybear (7 June 2013)

Baggybreeches said:



			I wasn't criticising your horse I was merely pointing out her origins, and trust me I have NEVER lost sleep over anyone's opinion of me.
 As I am sure you can see I am eloquent (although not always pleasant  ) and educated and I abhor the notion that my friends and relatives are being spoken about in this vitriolic manner.
Again I refer to my comment of previous about calling all muslims terrorists.
		
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I never said ALL were the same, some of the gypsies round here are fab, slow down out hacking always compliment tess, and say morning. Others have caused damage to local livery yards multiple times. 

You get the good and bad wherever you look and respect that. Im not sure where you thought i had declared every gypsy was horrible  but i apologise if that's how it came across.


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## justabob (7 June 2013)

Baggybreeches said:



			I wasn't criticising your horse I was merely pointing out her origins, and trust me I have NEVER lost sleep over anyone's opinion of me.
 As I am sure you can see I am eloquent (although not always pleasant  ) and educated and I abhor the notion that my friends and relatives are being spoken about in this vitriolic manner.
Again I refer to my comment of previous about calling all muslims terrorists.
		
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Please tell me, did you really find the man standing on the horses head to submerge it into the river acceptable?


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## Baggybreeches (7 June 2013)

justabob said:



			I agree with you Bb, Animal Aid is not normally my friend and they have waited to get the unpleasant side of the chaos at Appleby. But you can not be under any illusion that it never happens, it is on film. I can assure you I am neither hypocritical or ignorant. I live here among it and you just visit.
		
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I didn't say it never happens, but I have seen equally cruel things in dressage/showing/show jumping yards (not to say it doesn't happen in other disciplines but this is MY FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE) and I would quite happily PM you a list of abusers who are/were feted by H&H amongst others. The video I have seen doing the rounds is from 2009. I am absolutely honoured that so many horses look so magnificent this year after the shocking summer and subsequent winter(baring in mind they mostly live out all year round), I know my sheep look bloody awful in comparison to previous years so each magnificent horse you see this week and next is due to damn good horsemanship care and effort!


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## Baggybreeches (7 June 2013)

ChestnutTinker said:



			Would anybody like a nice cup of tea and some biscuits? Might help us calm this situation 

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Quite happy with my glass of rose thanks for the offer ;-)


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## pootleperkin (7 June 2013)

As a local, as to whether I'm  for or against the fair, the aspects that I could do with out are the thieving, the mess (honestly the litter left everywhere in the surrounding area is horrendous  - what's the problem with using bins?) and the lack of respect for locals who are trying to go about their daily life - not by all, but by quite a few! Not to mention the Welfare issues that definitely are present at the fair. 

On the positive side I like the tradition - where the fair came from and what it stands for - lots of locals do love it for the colour it brings to the area - equally though loads dread it.

I think it's naive to think that things could remain as an idyllic rural gypsy caravan gathering. Every aspect of society changes, not always for the good. I guess I'm trying to tactfully say that I don't like the more yobbish and unsavoury sides of the modern fair, but then I don't like that side of going out in Newcastle for an evening either! ( think I'm getting old!)

I also think it would be impossible, impractical and perhaps a shame to ban it - the travellers would just keep coming;  rather than go on Fairhill, they would just congregate in the surrounding countryside as they do prior to the fair and potentially cause more problems.  I agree totally that there are welfare issues everywhere behind closed doors - just in this case, they are on the roadside for all to see.


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## ChestnutTinker (7 June 2013)

Baggybreeches said:



			Quite happy with my glass of rose thanks for the offer ;-)
		
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You're welcome


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## Hedgewitch13 (7 June 2013)

So drowning a horse is ok by you then BB? Or are you going to deny that happened? Quite sickening I'm afraid. Roll out another excuse why don't you...


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## Baggybreeches (7 June 2013)

Hedgewitch13 said:



			So drowning a horse is ok by you then BB? Or are you going to deny that happened? Quite sickening I'm afraid. Roll out another excuse why don't you...
		
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Sorry I didn't answer that earlier (blame the rose!). 

No. Drowning a horse is not acceptable, EVER! I do believe the guy in question was dealt with (officially and unofficially) but that is one specific incident amongst hundreds of horses. I personally think that the livery yard mafioso are far more neglectful in their abundant over-rugging/over-feeding/under-working and general ignorance of their horses. I can not honestly put my hand on my heart and say I have never done something I later regretted with my horses/ponies over the years, but that's called learning the very hard way.


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## Holly Hocks (7 June 2013)

If you have a look at www.cumbriacrack.com  the vehicle that crashed had failed to stop for police and then crashed into a bus causing injuries.  There are no details of the driver made public yet.  Another news story on the site is that there have already been 20 arrests made for conspiracy to cause GBH.


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## Baggybreeches (7 June 2013)

pootleperkin said:



			As a local, as to whether I'm  for or against the fair, the aspects that I could do with out are the thieving, the mess (honestly the litter left everywhere in the surrounding area is horrendous  - what's the problem with using bins?) and the lack of respect for locals who are trying to go about their daily life - not by all, but by quite a few! Not to mention the Welfare issues that definitely are present at the fair. 

On the positive side I like the tradition - where the fair came from and what it stands for - lots of locals do love it for the colour it brings to the area - equally though loads dread it.

I think it's naive to think that things could remain as an idyllic rural gypsy caravan gathering. Every aspect of society changes, not always for the good. I guess I'm trying to tactfully say that I don't like the more yobbish and unsavoury sides of the modern fair, but then I don't like that side of going out in Newcastle for an evening either! ( think I'm getting old!)

I also think it would be impossible, impractical and perhaps a shame to ban it - the travellers would just keep coming;  rather than go on Fairhill, they would just congregate in the surrounding countryside as they do prior to the fair and potentially cause more problems.  I agree totally that there are welfare issues everywhere behind closed doors - just in this case, they are on the roadside for all to see.
		
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I totally agree, and quite honestly having visited Liverpool Womens Hospital for a meeting earlier in the week, I can guarantee I am probably as much of a snob as anyone else, the dregs of society aren't all in your back yard (even if it seems like it!).
And before anyone jumps on me for being anti Liverpool I am definitely not ( I am Liverpool born and bred) I am just sad at what has become of my fabulous home city.


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## weebarney (7 June 2013)

Yes nasty things go on behind closed doors towards horses on livery/competition yards but the stuff that goes on at appleby or at least went on last time i was there is in broad daylight out in public for all to see. If that sort of thing went on in a competition the person would be eliminated and sent home and possibly banned from that show ground yet at appleby no one is bothered by blatant brutality and cruelty.


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## justabob (7 June 2013)

Baggybreeches said:



			Sorry I didn't answer that earlier (blame the rose!). 

No. Drowning a horse is not acceptable, EVER! I do believe the guy in question was dealt with (officially and unofficially) but that is one specific incident amongst hundreds of horses. I personally think that the livery yard mafioso are far more neglectful in their abundant over-rugging/over-feeding/under-working and general ignorance of their horses. I can not honestly put my hand on my heart and say I have never done something I later regretted with my horses/ponies over the years, but that's called learning the very hard way.
		
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Good answer, what about the man trying to submerge his horses head under the water by standing on its neck? You have'nt answered that. I is in the video. Clearly it is not a one off situation as that is how the colt died in 2007.


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## Baggybreeches (7 June 2013)

justabob said:



			Good answer, what about the man trying to submerge his horses head under the water by standing on its neck? You have'nt answered that. I is in the video. Clearly it is not a one off situation as that is how the colt died in 2007.
		
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I thought you were referring to the case were the horse drowned a couple of years ago, that's the answer I was giving? I repeat that it is not acceptable to do things like stand on a horse's neck to submerge them in water, but as we all know the are good and bad in every way of life involved with horses. I haven't seen the case you are talking about and to be honest, whatever I say won't change anything, but if you all feel so strongly about it, then stop whinging on an internet forum behind aliases, put your money where your mouth is, get off your arse, away from your computer and go and do something about it.

''All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing'' Edmund Burke

*Apologises now for being an illiterate, ignorant ***** who probably paid more PAYE tax than 50% of the posters on this thread, all while caring for her animals and meeting their 5 basic needs as defined by DEFRA*


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## weebarney (7 June 2013)

Baggybreeches said:



			I thought you were referring to the case were the horse drowned a couple of years ago, that's the answer I was giving? I repeat that it is not acceptable to do things like stand on a horse's neck to submerge them in water, but as we all know the are good and bad in every way of life involved with horses. I haven't seen the case you are talking about and to be honest, whatever I say won't change anything, but if you all feel so strongly about it, then stop whinging on an internet forum behind aliases, put your money where your mouth is, get off your arse, away from your computer and go and do something about it.

''All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing'' Edmund Burke

*Apologises now for being an illiterate, ignorant ***** who probably paid more PAYE tax than 50% of the posters on this thread, all while caring for her animals and meeting their 5 basic needs as defined by DEFRA*
		
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What do you suggest he/she does to stop it?


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## Trinity Fox (7 June 2013)

I cannot believe  people are actually supportive of this event, just because there are some well looked after horses does not make up for the suffering and treatment of many others.
I buy and sell a bit so go to lots of sales so am used to seeing the not so nice side of things, I have to say I am not violent but going there gave me the urge to do some horrible things to several people.
The place is filthy and that includes loads of human excrement in certain places I mean you cannot let your dog crap anywhere in this country and not be fined if you do not pick up so why are we allowing grown adults to crap all over.

There were several fights we saw if you go up to where the caravans are there are cocks in cages all over the place wonder what they are being used for, we saw foals being ridden horses being kicked in the stomach punched in the face the rspca constantly having to warn people to stop racing the horses non stop on the flashing lane in boiling heat.
We saw a horse go over in a trap was down on its side and they started booting it in the side to get it up the list is endless, a vet with rspaca and police were going round having to break windows to pull out dogs that had been left in cars and vans they had pulled out more than one dead dog over the course of the day.
And every year there are injured and dead animals left at the site horses have been left alive with broken pelvis etc, if anyone can tell me of any equine event where this sort of behaviour goes on year after year I would love to know. It does not and would not be tolerated at any other kind of event so why in this day and age is it still allowed to continue.


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## Baggybreeches (7 June 2013)

Trinity Fox said:



			there are injured and dead animals left at the site horses have been left alive with broken pelvis etc, if anyone can tell me of any equine event where this sort of behaviour goes on year after year I would love to know. It does not and would not be tolerated at any other kind of event so why in this day and age is it still allowed to continue.
		
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I believe you can find this EVERY DAY in Bridgend South Wales!!
That is not an excuse that is a fact!


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## justabob (7 June 2013)

Have to laugh at you I am afraid. I am 58 years old and have been in full employment all my life. I pay tax, unlike most of your chums on Fair Hill. You come across as a twit now.


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## Cinnamontoast (7 June 2013)

Baggybreeches said:



			*Apologises now for being an illiterate, ignorant ***** who probably paid more PAYE tax than 50% of the posters on this thread
		
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 Do you want a round of applause?


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## Hedgewitch13 (7 June 2013)

Apologies BB I blame the Cab Sav for me being a bit rude to you! I just can't abide cruelty and I'm afraid there does seem to be a lot of that at Appleby. I feel so sorry for the people that live there and those poor horses that aren't looked after as they should be 

I live near Wickham and hear about the horror stories that go on there and unfortunately it is the same 'type' of people. I have been abused and had stones thrown at me, and the horse I was riding, when hacking past a static gypsy camp in the area. I have also seen a poor youngster being abused by 3 'traveller' kids but couldn't do anything about it as I didn't want my car damaged. They were foul mouthed little *****s too. 

Sadly I haven't met any nice members of this part of society so my views are rather negative.


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## Trinity Fox (7 June 2013)

You can see all this kind of behaviour on a smaller scale in many places I grant you but in most of these cases people are usually criticising and trying to stop it from happening.
And for some reason usually sensible sane minded horse people seem to be willing to overlook all this kind of behaviour for a day out I really do not get it.


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## Baggybreeches (7 June 2013)

justabob said:



			Have to laugh at you I am afraid. I am 58 years old and have been in full employment all my life. I pay tax, unlike most of your chums on Fair Hill. You come across as a twit now.
		
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As have I, and I think you will find that MY pals on Fair Hill actually do pay tax, my sister has only just had a bankruptcy discharged recently which was brought about fighting a legal battle to save a SSI in which they lost at court and were faced with large legal bills.
DO NOT PATRONISE ME, I haven't been rude, aggressive or judgemental.


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## Baggybreeches (7 June 2013)

Trinity Fox said:



			You can see all this kind of behaviour on a smaller scale in many places I grant you but in most of these cases people are usually criticising and trying to stop it from happening.
And for some reason usually sensible sane minded horse people seem to be willing to overlook all this kind of behaviour for a day out I really do not get it.
		
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Right, so showing producers 'slitting' ponies mouths with stanley knife blades to keep them behind the vertical isn't horrific enough? Not hearsay I might add have seen the aftermath with my own eyes! And that is just for starters!


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## justabob (7 June 2013)

Baggybreeches said:



			As have I, and I think you will find that MY pals on Fair Hill actually do pay tax, my sister has only just had a bankruptcy discharged recently which was brought about fighting a legal battle to save a SSI in which they lost at court and were faced with large legal bills.
DO NOT PATRONISE ME, I haven't been rude, aggressive or judgemental.
		
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Information that is not relevant to this thread. I suggest you put the Rose down.


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## Baggybreeches (7 June 2013)

cinnamontoast said:



 Do you want a round of applause?
		
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No I don't, but don't generalise and assume it's ok? I can not believe how utterly hypocritical the members of this forum can be at any given point. Gang culture is alive and well, found mostly on HHO........


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## Holly Hocks (7 June 2013)

Baggybreeches said:



			Right, so showing producers 'slitting' ponies mouths with stanley knife blades to keep them behind the vertical isn't horrific enough? Not hearsay I might add have seen the aftermath with my own eyes! And that is just for starters!
		
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Name and shame! That is abhorrent!


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## weebarney (7 June 2013)

Baggybreeches said:



			Right, so showing producers 'slitting' ponies mouths with stanley knife blades to keep them behind the vertical isn't horrific enough? Not hearsay I might add have seen the aftermath with my own eyes! And that is just for starters!
		
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So did you just watch and say nothing? What can someone on here do about a show pony with its mouth slit if we werent even there?


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## Baggybreeches (7 June 2013)

justabob said:



			Information that is not relevant to this thread. I suggest you put the Rose down.
		
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Sadly it's gone  Bottle too small/glass too big?


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## Baggybreeches (7 June 2013)

weebarney said:



			So did you just watch and say nothing? What can someone on here do about a show pony with its mouth slit if we werent even there?
		
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No I didn't I actually raised the matter to somebody within the relevant society along with picture evidence. One thing I doubt I would ever be accused of is being a 'bystander'.


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## weebarney (7 June 2013)

Baggybreeches said:



			*Apologises now for being an illiterate, ignorant ***** who probably paid more PAYE tax than 50% of the posters on this thread, all while caring for her animals and meeting their 5 basic needs as defined by DEFRA*
		
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So this isnt rude or judgmental?


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## justabob (7 June 2013)

Baggybreeches said:



			Right, so showing producers 'slitting' ponies mouths with stanley knife blades to keep them behind the vertical isn't horrific enough? Not hearsay I might add have seen the aftermath with my own eyes! And that is just for starters!
		
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I see now! So one dreadful act of cruelty counteracts another. It is all fine then, only a matter of who is more cruel than the other.


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## weebarney (7 June 2013)

Baggybreeches said:



			No I didn't I actually raised the matter to somebody within the relevant society along with picture evidence. One thing I doubt I would ever be accused of is being a 'bystander'.
		
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So you did nothing at the time of it happening?


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## Trinity Fox (7 June 2013)

As I have already stated when cruelty is going on people are usually against it and quite rightly so and it is very rarely people do it openly on a large scale in full public view.

It is also rarely the case that police or welfare officers are forced to overlook or let things go they way not wish to because of mob rule and I am afraid that is what goes on there.
Personally I have never been to any show where fatally injured horses are just dumped in a ditch to die thank god.


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## Baggybreeches (7 June 2013)

weebarney said:



			So you did nothing at the time of it happening?
		
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I wasn't at the yard at the time it happened (or I can guarantee it would not have happened!) I was told what happened by my 13/14 year old step daughter who explained in detail what she had seen.


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## justabob (7 June 2013)

Baggybreeches said:



			Sadly it's gone  Bottle too small/glass too big?
		
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That unfortunately is always the case.


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## weebarney (7 June 2013)

Trinity Fox said:



			As I have already stated when cruelty is going on people are usually against it and quite rightly so and it is very rarely people do it openly on a large scale in full public view.

It is also rarely the case that police or welfare officers are forced to overlook or let things go they way not wish to because of mob rule and I am afraid that is what goes on there.
Personally I have never been to any show where fatally injured horses are just dumped in a ditch to die thank god.
		
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Me neither!


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## Baggybreeches (7 June 2013)

justabob said:



			I see now! So one dreadful act of cruelty counteracts another. It is all fine then, only a matter of who is more cruel than the other.
		
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I didn't say that, all I was trying (and obviously failing) to illustrate was that cruelty that goes on in public view is no better or worse than that which goes on behind closed doors. The issue of who is more cruel is also a complex one, are those who do bad things in private worse because they are educated (and allegedly knowledgeable) or are the ignorant worse because they don't know any different?


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## weebarney (7 June 2013)

Baggybreeches said:



			I wasn't at the yard at the time it happened (or I can guarantee it would not have happened!) I was told what happened by my 13/14 year old step daughter who explained in detail what she had seen.
		
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So what happens when there is cruelty and brutality at appleby? Who deals with it? Who reports it? What are the consequences?


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## Baggybreeches (7 June 2013)

Trinity Fox said:



			As I have already stated when cruelty is going on people are usually against it and quite rightly so and it is very rarely people do it openly on a large scale in full public view.

It is also rarely the case that police or welfare officers are forced to overlook or let things go they way not wish to because of mob rule and I am afraid that is what goes on there.
Personally I have never been to any show where fatally injured horses are just dumped in a ditch to die thank god.
		
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And lets not get started on the RSPCA only being present because it raises (yet again) their profile and the TV cameras are there...........


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## justabob (7 June 2013)

Considering this is a big thread, there have just been 3 people that have condoned Appleby Fair. Speaks volumes how the public view this annual week of barbaric festivities.


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## Baggybreeches (7 June 2013)

weebarney said:



			So what happens when there is cruelty and brutality at appleby? Who deals with it? Who reports it? What are the consequences?
		
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Usually nothing from a welfare point of view, but there is the general consensus that 'proper' folk don't treat their horse/s or animals badly. The RSPCA have no intention of prosecuting anyone they just want to be seen on the telly.


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## Baggybreeches (7 June 2013)

justabob said:



			Considering this is a big thread, there have just been 3 people that have condoned Appleby Fair. Speaks volumes how the public view this annual week of barbaric festivities.
		
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Perhaps there would have only been 2 save for my damn work schedule


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## justabob (7 June 2013)

Baggybreeches said:



			Perhaps there would have only been 2 save for my damn work schedule 

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Wish you had been a lot more occupied elsewhere.


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## weebarney (7 June 2013)

Baggybreeches said:



			Usually nothing from a welfare point of view, but there is the general consensus that 'proper' folk don't treat their horse/s or animals badly. The RSPCA have no intention of prosecuting anyone they just want to be seen on the telly.
		
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As it is a gypsy gathering why are they not policing it then? why is it left to the rspca? Why is there not one or a group of respected gypsy's at the usual flash points stewarding it?


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## justabob (7 June 2013)

weebarney said:



			As it is a gypsy gathering why are they not policing it then? why is it left to the rspca? Why is there not one or a group of respected gypsy's at the usual flash points stewarding it?
		
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Because that would be like having Fred West looking after the welfare of children.


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## Baggybreeches (7 June 2013)

weebarney said:



			As it is a gypsy gathering why are they not policing it then? why is it left to the rspca? Why is there not one or a group of respected gypsy's at the usual flash points stewarding it?
		
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A good point, but I suspect as you have all stated the bad guys have overtaken the old guard in large numbers and it would take some organising. I will though take your point on board and see if something can't be done? I thinks it's definitely a crunch time, which the fair must change or be gone forever


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## weebarney (7 June 2013)

Baggybreeches said:



			A good point, but I suspect as you have all stated the bad guys have overtaken the old guard in large numbers and it would take some organising. I will though take your point on board and see if something can't be done? I thinks it's definitely a crunch time, which the fair must change or be gone forever 

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So it seems like its not just a minority spoiling it for the rest then.


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## Trinity Fox (7 June 2013)

Just watched bbc look north 21 arrested on gbh nice, and some lovely person has been arrested for dangerous driving crashing in to a school bus didnt say but do not think any children were in it.
And for the most part while I am not a fan of the rspca after talking to one of the vets in attendance when we were there he did say they were constantly treading on eggshells and suffered terrible abuse for intervening and helping a disgrace really.

Although I probably come across as some stiff old fart in this thread I am actually fairly live and let live but do feel the line does need to drawn at times.


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## justabob (7 June 2013)

Trinity Fox said:



			Just watched bbc look north 21 arrested on gbh nice, and some lovely person has been arrested for dangerous driving crashing in to a school bus didnt say but do not think any children were in it.
And for the most part while I am not a fan of the rspca after talking to one of the vets in attendance when we were there he did say they were constantly treading on eggshells and suffered terrible abuse for intervening and helping a disgrace really.

Although I probably come across as some stiff old fart in this thread I am actually fairly live and let live but do feel the line does need to drawn at times.
		
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And it is only friday, tomorrow night be even more charming.


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## lula (8 June 2013)

Baggybreeches said:



			A good point, but I suspect as you have all stated the bad guys have overtaken the old guard in large numbers and it would take some organising. I will though take your point on board and see if something can't be done? I thinks it's definitely a crunch time, which the fair must change or be gone forever 

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weebarney said:



			So it seems like its not just a minority spoiling it for the rest then.
		
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Exactly!

seems to me -speaking as an ignorant member of the public basing my views from hearsay and the media that the problem is now the younger generation for the MOST part not having (or caring about) the old skills and horsemanship their fathers and grandfathers possessed. Like wise a criminal element seems to be getting larger and a gulf widening of mutual resentment and lack of respect between the travellers and the ordinary domiciled community.
Perhaps because horses arent the working animals they once were in previous generations pulling bow tops when horses NEEDED to be in prime condition to work, they are now generally more status symbol they are less 'valuable' and more disposable if they race their legs off flashing or drown the bloody thing. No harm done, just buy a new one.

Undoubtedly not ALL travellers/gypsies are 'bad' but there is no doubt there is more of a problem with welfare, over breeding, fly grazing and conflict with non travellers than there used to be from the younger gen.

I entirely agree that some policiing of welfare standards for the horses at Appleby from within the travelling community would be the way forward and as its their fair and if they want to be welcomed by the locals in the future its in their own interests to do so.


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## Gloi (8 June 2013)

In the 1970s I used to go every year with my farrier, a local wheelwright and a bunch of other local horse folk. We always had a good time but it was nothing like it is now. I went occasionally through the 80's and 90's but it just got rougher each time I was there.
The last time I went I nearly got killed when one of the trotters they were racing up the road overreached his front shoe off and it flew past my head, missing me by inches, and went through the side of the lorry I was standing in front of. I also saw a horse which had the shaft from another vehicle embedded in its side  and which had to be shot.
To top it all when I got back to my car the window had been smashed and the radio stolen. I've not been since and I don't think I'll be going again.


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## Holly Hocks (8 June 2013)

Well the driver of the car who crashed into the bus making off from Police yesterday has been charged with dangerous driving, driving otherwise than in accordance with a licence, no insurance  and handling stolen goods.

A horse was also located with a broken leg this morning and had to be put down.

What a charming "fair" this is....


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