# feeding foals



## Poppys Nannan (29 November 2011)

hello there

i am feeding my 7month old foal a handful of calm and condition, some speedibeet and she has ad lib hay - do i need to feed anything else?
I am not worried about her condition but don't want to be missing anything.

She is 13'3 at the minute Mum is a french trotter and Dad is a gypsy heavy cob.

She is out 24/7 on grass but has hay all the time. She is rugged now too 

many thanks x


----------



## Spring Feather (29 November 2011)

I'm confused to why you're feeding a foal Calm and Condition?  A quick analysis of C&C shows it's low in protein, low in vitamins, minerals and trace elements (is there ANY calcium in it?) and it's high in starch and sugar.  I personally don't think it's suitable at all for a 7 month old foal sorry.  You would be better buying a balancer that is purposely developed to provide all the nutritional needs of a young growing foal


----------



## JanetGeorge (29 November 2011)

Ditto!  NOT the feed for weanlings.  Mine get a modest ration of Bailey's Stud Balancer 3 times a day, with ad lib haylage.  I certainly wouldn't want them getting excessive starch or sugar (they're fat as pigs already!)


----------



## Poppys Nannan (29 November 2011)

I do only give her a handful but i was advised by the feed company - originally they said fast fibre which i used but they recommended when i had used one sack to change to C & C !!
My daughters mare is on C & C but i am not 100% happy with it (Horses in winter thread ) and i am currently revamping her diet.

My foal looks well and i am not concerned so what i really want to do is make sure she is getting the right nutrition for her to develop as she should and do a feeding overhaul (slowly )

Welcome any suggestions or experiences 

marketing of CC highlights low in starch, high in fibre 
calcium carbonate mentioned as 7th ingredient x


----------



## Spring Feather (29 November 2011)

Poppys Nannan said:



			I do only give her a handful but i was advised by the feed company - originally they said fast fibre which i used but they recommended when i had used one sack to change to C & C !!
		
Click to expand...

I'm astonished that an Allen & Page nutritionist would suggest either of these feeds for a 7 month old foal. It doesn't make sense to me.




			marketing of CC highlights low in starch, high in fibre 
calcium carbonate mentioned as 7th ingredient x
		
Click to expand...

I looked at this link  It doesn't say it's low in starch, it says it has 13% starch and 8% sugars and it's very low in protein and minerals/trace elements.
http://www.allenandpage.com/Products/Older-Horses-and-Conditioning/Calm-and-Condition.aspx

Your foal would do better on any of these feeds which are specifically designed for foals/ youngsters and broodmares.

http://www.dodsonandhorrell.com/products/horse-ranges/breeding/suregrow.html

http://www.baileyshorsefeeds.co.uk/studareahome/studproducts/studbalancerstud.htm

http://www.spillers-feeds.com/products/stud-feeds/gro-n-win/


----------



## Sportznight (29 November 2011)

Ditto SF and JG!

Personally I'd be feeding Suregrow, with a basic chaff (or Alfalfa/Alfa A over the harshest of the winter) and hay.  Access to a vit/min salt lick is always a good idea too


----------



## Sparkles (29 November 2011)

We feed CoolStance to all of ours. With a vitamin/mineral supplement added.


----------



## eventrider23 (29 November 2011)

I would NEVER feed C&C to a weanling and am shocked the feed company would recommend it.  You would be far better off feeding something along lines of a foal mix/balancer or a supplement like Sure Limb powder with Alfa A or something.  Please speak to a nutritionist again for advice.


----------



## aimeetb (29 November 2011)

You are doing the best thing with providing adlib hay but would definately say go for a good qual chaff like safe and sound and a powder vit and min like surelimb - that's what I feed my baby and she is strapping!! Xx


----------



## misst (29 November 2011)

I fed Baileys Stud Balancer and Hifi with speedy beet in the winter and ad lib haylage. He is now, at 3,  on Low Calorie Balancer instead. I have never needed to feed anything else. His half brother is fed the same. We have never fed the full recommended amount of balancer. It is cheap and simple and seems to work well. Our elderly mare is on the same regime so this might work for you.


----------



## Nannon (29 November 2011)

My 9 month TB filly is on spillers stud and youngstock mix with some alfalfa and ad lib hay, looks to be doing ok at the moment but waiting on spillers to get back to me on how much she should be having


----------



## Poppys Nannan (30 November 2011)

Spring Feather said:



			I'm astonished that an Allen & Page nutritionist would suggest either of these feeds for a 7 month old foal. It doesn't make sense to me.


I looked at this link  It doesn't say it's low in starch, it says it has 13% starch and 8% sugars and it's very low in protein and minerals/trace elements.
http://www.allenandpage.com/Products/Older-Horses-and-Conditioning/Calm-and-Condition.aspx

Your foal would do better on any of these feeds which are specifically designed for foals/ youngsters and broodmares.



Many thanks for your help and thoughts,
I am looking at an A4 flyer from Allen & Page, sent from them following their advice, the write up does say low in starch ( as does the write up on your link), interestingly my flyer doesn't quantify starch or sugars !! but the link does ! 

Just wondering what is a ideal quantity of starch and sugar ??

Cheers x 

Click to expand...


----------



## Miss L Toe (30 November 2011)

Dodson and Horrel Mare and Youngstock for me, it is palatable, easy to digest and is balanced for calcium and enhanced for essential minerals. Ad lib hay and a small feed for both of them according to condition, though mine used to share the same feed bucket.


----------



## Amymay (30 November 2011)

You had some great advice on a previous thread - in particular from Spring Feather.

Did none of that help?


----------



## Poppys Nannan (30 November 2011)

Spring feather - As pointed out by AM you responded to another thread of mine where feeding the foal was mentioned and you suggested Spillers gro and win - do you feed this with some chaff 
             how do you work out the amount needed for the foal

many thanks
x x


----------



## emlybob (30 November 2011)

I too am shocked you have been advised to feed calm and condition to a weanling.  I feed suregrwo to foals and find they all do very well on it


----------



## Spring Feather (30 November 2011)

Poppy I didn't read the blurb on the link for C&C, I just read the analysis of the feed and saw that it had a high starch and sugar content *for a foal*.  13% is too much and the protein/mineral levels are all out of kilter *for a foal*.  You need to be looking at feeding percent of protein running at somewhere in the 20s or 30s %.  No I don't feed chaff.  The balancer I use is a complete feed.  My weanlings (Han's) are each fed 1lb g'n'w per day which is at the lower end of the RDA.


----------



## Poppys Nannan (30 November 2011)

Many thanks x x


----------



## woodlander (10 December 2011)

The most important thing is to ensure the right levels of vitamins, minerals and trace elements. We breed some 12 plus foals a year and at weaning they get between  around 2kgs  of oats, 200-300gms of soya, a small amount of well drained sugar beet and 30mls of Red Cell plus limestone flour. They have very fine hay as their gut is not sufficiently developed to manage high levels of fibre in the early months.

The advantage of using straights is the ability to control the level of ration but keep the supplement at the right level. A good doer might have its ready supplemented feed or balancer cut down and so get insufficient of the minerals required.

We have done this for years and we keep our foals "light" in condition but their need is for higher levels of protein than a four year old in work. I should also say that as we sell our horses and license stallions so there is a fair bit of X raying done and we have very little OCD from a very large number of animals.


----------



## JanetGeorge (10 December 2011)

woodlander said:



			The most important thing is to ensure the right levels of vitamins, minerals and trace elements. We breed some 12 plus foals a year and at weaning they get between  around 2kgs  of oats, 200-300gms of soya, a small amount of well drained sugar beet and 30mls of Red Cell plus limestone flour. They have very fine hay as their gut is not sufficiently developed to manage high levels of fibre in the early months.

The advantage of using straights is the ability to control the level of ration but keep the supplement at the right level. A good doer might have its ready supplemented feed or balancer cut down and so get insufficient of the minerals required.
		
Click to expand...

Agree with woodlander.  A lot of people feed less than the 'recommended amount' of whatever concentrate they are using, which means that the horse is NOT getting a proper ration of vits/mins and trace elements!  

But for people with only one or two foals, straights can be a problem and formulated rations make life easier - as long as you're 'sensible' about it!  It's worth remembering that most research into feed requirements has been carried out on TBs - and their needs are VERY different to those of natives or x-breds.

I certainly feed considerably less Stud Balancer than recommended by the manufacturer because 1) I have very good haylage which they eat a great deal of, and 2) my little ID poppets would end up 19hh and riddled with OCD if I fed them to the 'recommended' levels!!  BUT I also use Sure Limb to ensure they still get sufficient mins/vits.  If I'm feeding a third of recommended level of SB, then I add two thirds of the recommended amount of Sure Limb.  In an ideal world you would analyse the forage - because many farms have deficiencies which will also be present in the forage.  I don't make my own forage - if I did it would be Cobalt deficient (causing difficulties with B12) - but as my forage comes from several different sources, I just make sure they get 'sufficient' Mins/vits to balance!


----------



## faeriequeene (16 March 2012)

woodlander said:



			The most important thing is to ensure the right levels of vitamins, minerals and trace elements. We breed some 12 plus foals a year and at weaning they get between  around 2kgs  of oats, 200-300gms of soya, a small amount of well drained sugar beet and 30mls of Red Cell plus limestone flour. They have very fine hay as their gut is not sufficiently developed to manage high levels of fibre in the early months.

The advantage of using straights is the ability to control the level of ration but keep the supplement at the right level. A good doer might have its ready supplemented feed or balancer cut down and so get insufficient of the minerals required.

We have done this for years and we keep our foals "light" in condition but their need is for higher levels of protein than a four year old in work. I should also say that as we sell our horses and license stallions so there is a fair bit of X raying done and we have very little OCD from a very large number of animals.
		
Click to expand...

Woodlander, I have been trying to feed along similar lines to yourself and bought some whole organic oats which I can store. However, I have had a lot of the oats going straight through the foal (8 months), even soaked ones. Do you have this problem?


----------



## woodlander (22 March 2012)

I have PMd you faeriequeen just to say that we too get this happening but no more than with crushed oats and it is not a problem in general. Make sure that the feed is of the right quantity per feed (not more than two thirds the size of a football) and feed little and often and as dry as possible.


----------



## magic104 (22 March 2012)

Towcester vets did a lecture on broodmare care & Sarcens were there to discuss feeding of the mare & foal.  OCD has some links to the last 3mths feeding of the mare before foaling.  Sarcens work with http://www.ker.com/library/EquineReview/2002/Nutrition/N06.pdf where they did tests on foals.  People wont like this but foals were sacrificed in the research, ie they had to be PTS so they could carry out the investigations on them.


----------



## Maesfen (22 March 2012)

magic104 said:



			People wont like this but foals were sacrificed in the research, ie they had to be PTS so they could carry out the investigations on them.
		
Click to expand...

The very same happens with the worming trials but how else are they to produce safe wormers for our horses?  The same might be said for any new 'medical' grade product.  I'm not against it if it's for the future well being of horses everywhere.


----------

