# thoughts on my horses hoof/frog please?



## B.F.G (11 October 2010)

my horse has got something strange happening with his frog but i dont' know what it is!
the pics show it to some extent. it's only in his one hoof, not smelly (so not thrush).
this year he has been off with a possible tear to his DDFT in the same hoof so could there be a link or just a coincidence?

i cleaned his hoof before i took the pics but there are 2 'holes' in his frog that seem to collect dirt. as far as i'm aware he hasn't got any pain with it although he's a toughie and doesn't really show any pain.

he's not lame on it either. there's a vet coming to the yard on wednesday and i'm going to ask him to have a look just to be sure but thought i'd ask on here as well.
a friend suggested that it may be like that because of the lack of blood flow/trauma to the hoof from the tear to his DDFT.
you can sort of get a finger into the holes as well!


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## Shysmum (11 October 2010)

I would get the farrier out asap to be honest - there's not a lot they don't know about feet. sm x


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## B.F.G (11 October 2010)

oops sorry for the large pics!


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## sally2008 (11 October 2010)

Hiya.  Looking at the height of his heels I would imagine that his frog has little or no contact with the ground which will stop the frog from exfoliating naturally.  I'd say make sure you keep the "holes" clean and perhaps paint on venetian turpentine, (available here http://www.tfp-shop.co.uk/acatalog/Venetian_Turpentine.html or from Premier Equine) which has antibacterial properties, to prevent any nasties taking hold aand ask your farrier to address the heel height a.s.a.p.


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## Laura1812 (11 October 2010)

That is infection - pack the holes with cotton wool and sudocreme - change daily or better still, but some of this stuff to pack it with...

http://www.red-horse.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=72&Itemid=58

good luck!


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## beeswax (11 October 2010)

double agree with Sally2008 get farrier to it asap on the double


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## brucea (11 October 2010)

Difficult to judge the height of the heel buttresses relative to the sole plane from these photographs - so I think it is bad practice to give advice on hoof trimming from photographs - could be they look high because of the angle and they're slightly under run that will exagerate the impression of height on this view. 

If they are high, and they do look a little high to me, then they should be gradually backed down over a couple of trims, not all at once.

Looks to me like you may have a bit if central sulcus infection thing going on - I use gauze and hibiscrub for that like flossing - but this also looks like a slightly weak frog that is shedding. My guys shed their frogs each year about this time and they look a bit like this  (and they are low heels, barefoot aind in contact with the ground!)

Looks too like he's been standing in the wet - so if you can get him on to drier ground?


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## ImogenBurrows (11 October 2010)

Hi there,

Looks to me to be an area of underrun frog that is sloughing.  This is pretty common, I see it quite a lot this time of year and is best treated keeping clean and dry but most easily after the area has been debrided by trimming off the excess dead no good frog and getting air to the underlying tissues.  This can be done by either the vets of farrier as it is non painful and is not involving living tissue so to speak.  

I agree that it is very difficult to assess the heels properly but if they are high you can problem get rid of most of the height without undue distress in one trim - more if necessary.  If the horse shod or not usually?  I assume not given that there isn't a shoe on right now the answer's no.  If so the frog is often out of contact with the ground anyway due to the shoe height raising the foot off the ground. If not, then the frog should be contact the ground as others have said and natural debridement of the frog should occur anyway.  The wet ground means this sometimes doesn't happen and hence stuff like the photos occurs. 

Hope that helps,
Imogen


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## brucea (11 October 2010)

I agree that it is very difficult to assess the heels properly but if they are high you can problem get rid of most of the height without undue distress in one trim - more if necessary.
		
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Probably you're right if there's not that much to come off. I'm just one of these quite conservative, make change to heel height in stages, kind of trimmers!


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## ImogenBurrows (11 October 2010)

brucea said:



			Probably you're right if there's not that much to come off. I'm just one of these quite conservative, make change to heel height in stages, kind of trimmers! 


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Rather that than the "hack until it's pink and oozey" type!!!


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## beeswax (11 October 2010)

brucea, pardon me but neither sally2008 nor myself gave any instruction on trimming we both agreed/suggested that a farrier needs to look at the feet asap, in fact all you did was say what we had already said just in a different way, so kindly do not tell people it is bad practise to give advice on shoeing when we are simply giving our opinion just as you have done, this forum is about debating and offering advise whether it is used or not is the listeners choice.


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## ImogenBurrows (11 October 2010)

beeswax said:



			brucea, pardon me but neither sally2008 nor myself gave any instruction on trimming we both agreed/suggested that a farrier needs to look at the feet asap, in fact all you did was say what we had already said just in a different way, so kindly do not tell people it is bad practise to give advice on shoeing when we are simply giving our opinion just as you have done, this forum is about debating and offering advise whether it is used or not is the listeners choice.
		
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I didn't read it the comment as a dig at anyone specifically as such...., and it's a fair point too - it is bad practice.  You are right and Brucea also went onto discuss the trimming that was suggested...at least that's what I read.  

Think that you may have taken the comments slightly the wrong way, I think the point was more in defence of the next comments discussing the heel trimming as an aside rather than put you down.   Just as I would say - I haven't seen the horse but my take would be blah blah blah.....

Just my 2p
imogen


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## B.F.G (12 October 2010)

thanks for that, he comes in for a few hours each day but that's it, he had a possible tear to his DDFT and was on a restricted paddock all year as he couldn't be stabled due to the high risk of him getting lymphangitis. the frog on all his other hooves looks fine and nothing out of the ordinary, it's just this one leg that had the tear in.

i've been syringing diluted hibiscrub into the 'holes' to make sure they are clean and also cleaning his feet with it then putting purple spray on.

before this started to happen his frog was lovely, it touched the floor as it should. but it's almost like it's been 'eaten' away.


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## ImogenBurrows (12 October 2010)

Just a thought but with regard to the relation ship between the DDFT injury and the frog thing...your horse is not likely to have been putting the same loading forces through this limb while it have been healing.  Particularly as the DDFT will encourage the horse to avoid loading the heel region - often we put cases in heel wedges to release some of the pressures on the injured area while it's healing and then gradually reduced the height of the wedge to encourage stretching. 

If this is the case, then is it not a surprise that this would be the affected area and the "eaten out" appearance is typical of frog injury IME.

Get it pared back when the farriers out and I'm sure this will get better especially and the loading becomes more even. 

Imogen


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## brucea (12 October 2010)

Particularly as the DDFT will encourage the horse to avoid loading the heel region - often we put cases in heel wedges to release some of the pressures on the injured area while it's healing and then gradually reduced the height of the wedge to encourage stretching.
		
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Which underlies some of my cautious reluctance to make changes to heel height too quickly. If there is any kind of weakness then throwing them back on their heels all at once may not be such a good thing.


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## ImogenBurrows (12 October 2010)

brucea said:



			Which underlies some of my cautious reluctance to make changes to heel height too quickly. If there is any kind of weakness then throwing them back on their heels all at once may not be such a good thing.
		
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Agreed - wasn't thinking out that area of the problem in my earlier posts


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## Laura1812 (12 October 2010)

Actually - I dont think the heel are too far out as I think the frog needs more bulk and height. There should be a 5 degree incline from the apex of the frog to the heels.

I would give the frog a good trim and use Red Horse Hoof Stuff to pack the central sulcus and any other anomalies.


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## beeswax (12 October 2010)

I have just shown pic to my farrier who suggests it could be canker which is difficult to clear and the frog looks sunkun in the hoof rather than the heels being long, get the farrier to cut off what is dead of the frog and clean with pethidine.  Good luck!!


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## ferrador (12 October 2010)

canker will look like a baby cauliflower and bleeds like bloody hell when played about with , unfortunately i see to much of it , but from where i am sat it doesnt like canker
chris


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## B.F.G (13 October 2010)

thanks for all the advice, lots to work with. 

the vet is coming out today who has worked with him through out his injury, he had a good look at him in mid august and couldn't see anything wrong, there was no difference in his frog then.
i've ridden my horse for 10 mins 3 or 4 times a week since september, the frog has only gone like this in the last 3 or 4 weeks. i've been cleaning it throroughly and then putting purple spray on it. 
he has about 4 hours in a clean dry stable then overnight he is out in the arena (wood chip) and then he's out in the field in the daytime.

i've been able to ride him on the road, in the arena and also in the paddocks and so far i haven't noticed him favouring any leg, which i thought he might due to the injury he had for so long.

i will let you all know what the vet says later, i've also got him booked in for a trim next week as well so hopefully i will have a definate answer.


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## beeswax (13 November 2010)

what was the result on this thread, curious as to what the condition was


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## mcnaughty (14 November 2010)

shysmum said:



			I would get the farrier out asap to be honest - there's not a lot they don't know about feet. sm x
		
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I would ditto this - don't bother with the vet.


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## *hic* (15 November 2010)

beeswax said:



			I have just shown pic to my farrier who suggests it could be canker which is difficult to clear and the frog looks sunkun in the hoof rather than the heels being long, get the farrier to cut off what is dead of the frog and clean with pethidine.  Good luck!!
		
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Interesting thought to "clean it with pethidine". I'm just wondering what an analgesic commonly used in childbirth would have to do with cleaning a horse's feet.


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## Kallibear (15 November 2010)

Just looks like a wet frog that's got a bit of thrush. They look a little contracted (possibly because the heels are a little long) but nothing major - they looks like fairly heathly feet!

The two 'holes' are where the thrush has eaten away at the tissue - very common at this time of year and it's a constant battle if they live in wet conditions.

Scrub daily with a strong disinfectant then put a little disinfectant-soaked cotton wool in the sulcus gap (won't stay there, it just holds the disinfectant there for a little longer) and try and let his feet dry out as much as possible.


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