# Horse had rotational fall with daughter today, opinions please .



## Devonshire dumpling (4 September 2014)

My greenish mare came to me last February , she was 6 prob  just backed, had 4 foals,  I hacked her out and hunted her, she tripped loads , including face planting the Tarmac and grazing her nose, physio said her pelvis was uneven and she needs to build the correct muscles in her rear, her right hind is weak , squared off toe etc.  Season of hunting, rolled toes n good saddle fitting and tripping a thing of the past really.  Foxy is a 14.1 coloured cob and unschooled, finds the left rein difficult physio recommended Pessoa work and schooling to work her ample bottom , I haven't used a Pessoa on her, but have lunged her lightly, she was great on right rein but very naughty on left as she finds it hard, so I am having lessons on her instead and my instructor is helping strengthen her weaknesses .  
foxy can jump s solid jump out hunting , but working in the school over coloured jumps/ poles etc very hard for her and she demolishes them.
She's had the summer off and been brought back into work and to be fair has done an excessive amount of work this last 2 weeks......
She's relatively fit but not super hunting fit yet...went for a 
1)4 mile exercise hack, half trot and half walking, she was super duper fiery and up for it, no tripping.

2)next day an hours lesson in walk and trot, just working in straightness.

3) 2 days later she went for a 9 mile ride and about 4 miles from home she slammed the ground on her side, my daughter was behind and said she watched her back legs slip to the left on a shiny Tarmac and front legs went same way, these things happen, was bad fall but horse slipped up,  trotting short bursts on way home she not lifting her right hind fully for road clearance, call physio.

4) next day bring her out of field, trot her up, everything back to normal, must just have been tightness and that's her weak leg.

5) 3 days later ... 15 mile Funride, no tripping but last mile that leg got tired again 

6) 4 days later ( today) trip to Exmoor so 50 mins in trailer then 15 miles of all down hill in walk, horse  absolutely full of it, long climb up to moor , and mile walking on flat then canter with my 14 yr old daughter on board, flat even ground good going, suddenly see horse face plant the ground and up and over in a head stand, miraculously both fine if not a little stunned and confidence a bit rock bottom for mare and daughter .

This kind if mileage is not uncommon for her, she's a fit hunt horse, not overweight , looks like a little rhino, almost muscle bound to look at .... Am going to get physio out to see if she injured herself in first fall, we are assuming she tripped today but daughter unsure as was so fast, will get vet too.

This mare has fine from severely underweight to fit in 2 yrs, she was in a bad way and obviously still mega unschooled, my gut feeling is she is tired and shoes due next week, so long in the toe and unbalanced.

I guess it could be neurological or other problems and it's all guesswork until the professionals have been buthas anyone had any experience of a horse tripping. In canter and going over like that?

Obviously she's going to be on 24 hr turnout and rested until she's seen.


Thanks for reading !!


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## Moomin1 (4 September 2014)

I'm struggling to get my head around all this. She's mega unschooled, but doing 15 mile treks etc?  Schooling is essential to build up balance, rhythm and strength to carry a rider properly.  It sounds like your mare is really struggling with either something physically wrong, or her balance (or both) is drastically poor with a rider on board.  Either way, she shouldn't be doing anywhere near the level of work you are asking of her currently.  I most certainly wouldn't be hunting or exercising a horse who is falling over to that extent, and your physio has already told you that she is not strong enough in certain areas.  It seems you haven't really done any of the work your physio has suggested to rectify that as well.

Sorry if that sounds harsh, but I cannot understand why you are exercising a six year old horse who is 'mega' unschooled to the extent you have, particularly given what your physio has said to you.  I would also have had the vet out after the first fall, not put her through an intensive two weeks of exercise afterwards.


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## Devonshire dumpling (4 September 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			I'm struggling to get my head around all this. She's mega unschooled, but doing 15 mile treks etc?  Schooling is essential to build up balance, rhythm and strength to carry a rider properly.  It sounds like your mare is really struggling with either something physically wrong, or her balance (or both) is drastically poor with a rider on board.  Either way, she shouldn't be doing anywhere near the level of work you are asking of her currently.  I most certainly wouldn't be hunting or exercising a horse who is falling over to that extent, and your physio has already told you that she is not strong enough in certain areas.  It seems you haven't really done any of the work your physio has suggested to rectify that as well.

Sorry if that sounds harsh, but I cannot understand why you are exercising a six year old horse who is 'mega' unschooled to the extent you have, particularly given what your physio has said to you.  I would also have had the vet out after the first fall, not put her through an intensive two weeks of exercise afterwards.
		
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Firstly she's 7  yrs and 3 mths ..... This isn't particularly hard work for a horse , and my physio and vet have recommended giving her a seasons hunting and then ask her to refine her self ..... Both  highly regarded in ether equestrian world ... This horse hasn't tripped since feb march 2013... I don't think you read my post properly, thankyou for your opinion tho .


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## Amymay (4 September 2014)

I'm also struggling a bit too.

When exactly was she brought back in to work? And how did you manage anything hunting wise on an unfit 6 year old purchased in February?


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## be positive (4 September 2014)

I find myself agreeing with Moomin1, I cannot understand why the vet has not been involved, that as things have not improved physically with the physio that they have not referred her to the vet, which they should, that you take a sore horse on several long rides without getting her properly checked over, if the tripping was a one off and there had been no history with the hind leg I could understand it may have just been one of those things but in this case I think it is all linked.
If she has been off all summer I fail to see how she can be fit enough for the work she is currently doing, it normally takes weeks of walking and trotting to build up fitness, unless I have misunderstood she has only been in work a few weeks and is now doing 15 miles plus rides at speed.


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## Devonshire dumpling (4 September 2014)

She had 6 weeks off end of may


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## Amymay (4 September 2014)

Devonshire dumpling said:



			Firstly she's 7  yrs and 3 mths ..... This isn't particularly hard work for a horse , and my physio and vet have recommended giving her a seasons hunting and then ask her to refine her self ..... Both  highly regarded in ether equestrian world ... This horse hasn't tripped since feb march 2013... I don't think you read my post properly, thankyou for your opinion tho .
		
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The horse was 6 in Feb, but now shes 7??


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## Lolo (4 September 2014)

Honestly, this sounds like a full vet work up case I'm really sorry. It's not normal at all for a young horse to be like this, regardless of how fit/ unfit they are. And if your vet finds nothing wrong I'd probably ask for a second opinion. It might be worth trying to get some video footage of her tripping too, to show it in context as it were.


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## dogatemysalad (4 September 2014)

I read this and then decided to come back to see if anyone else had shed some light on the timeline and sequence of events. I'm struggling with this too, perhaps you've left some detail out because it doesn't sound very wise.


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## Amymay (4 September 2014)

Devonshire dumpling said:



			She had 6 weeks off end of may
		
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So back in to work middle of July??


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## Moomin1 (4 September 2014)

Devonshire dumpling said:



			Firstly she's 7  yrs and 3 mths ..... This isn't particularly hard work for a horse , and my physio and vet have recommended giving her a seasons hunting and then ask her to refine her self ..... Both  highly regarded in ether equestrian world ... This horse hasn't tripped since feb march 2013... I don't think you read my post properly, thankyou for your opinion tho .
		
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You said last February she was 6 years old.  I take last February, as...the last February we had....which was 5 months ago.  Forgive me for getting confused by your post.  

That aside, the amount of work you are asking of your horse IS a lot.  You say by your own admission that she was worked excessively over those two weeks. You also say that you noticed her 'weak leg' not coping, and she actually was unlevel in that she wasn't lifting her 'weak leg' clear of the road.  But you still then continued to work her excessively for the rest of the two weeks.  It should be clear from the first fall, and subsequent walk home, that something is amiss and needs looking into before doing two 15 mile rides within the following week.

You say yourself she struggles on the flat on the left rein, demolishing jumps and being 'naughty' on the left rein because she finds it hard. I'm sorry, but it's screaming out at me that something is wrong.


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## MissTyc (4 September 2014)

Must have been purchased in Feb 2013?

... So perhaps riding 6 in Feb 2013, turning 6 in May/June-ish 2013, turning 7 in May/June-ish 2014?


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## Devonshire dumpling (4 September 2014)

My vet recommended I get my physio out originally, my physio gave her a clean bill of health in April , but I wanted to give her 6 weeks off for the summer , took her shoes off and let her unwind after hunting, she recommended I see her again in October!  The horse slipped up last week and we have had a locus vet in her he yard for our other horse who had an abscess in her foot the very next day, we took the mare out and trotted her up, ..... Also had the vet out for choke .on my youngster... There isn't anything  wrong as such, but she lacks the strength to jump , the vet and physio who work together  have both said she can have as much work as I like to give her as she's 7 now and tis almost impossible to over work a 7 yr old by today's standards, her strength in her bottom is in the wrong place, she has massive muscles on her thigh, they went me working the top of her bottom by her croup, hence schooling, I haven't ignored my physios advice , the Pessoa wasn't going to work ...... Wasn't worth putting pressure on her in that way.    My mare hasn't tripped since summer  , not feb 2014...


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## Moomin1 (4 September 2014)

Devonshire dumpling said:



			My vet recommended I get my physio out originally, my physio gave her a clean bill of health in April , but I wanted to give her 6 weeks off for the summer , took her shoes off and let her unwind after hunting, she recommended I see her again in October!  The horse slipped up last week and we have had a locus vet in her he yard for our other horse who had an abscess in her foot the very next day, we took the mare out and trotted her up, ..... Also had the vet out for choke .on my youngster... There isn't anything  wrong as such, but she lacks the strength to jump , the vet and physio who work together  have both said she can have as much work as I like to give her as she's 7 now and tis almost impossible to over work a 7 yr old by today's standards, her strength in her bottom is in the wrong place, she has massive muscles on her thigh, they went me working the top of her bottom by her croup, hence schooling, I haven't ignored my physios advice , the Pessoa wasn't going to work ...... Wasn't worth putting pressure on her in that way.    My mare hasn't tripped since summer  , not feb 2014...
		
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I'm sorry, but that really is the biggest load of codswallop I have read in a long time.  Your physio recommended you use a pessoa to build her up because she isn't strong enough to jump, yet you are taking her on 15 mile rides?  And, despite your physio saying what you need to do, you have rubbished it, and decided that 'it isn't going to work' and 'you aren't going to put pressure on her like that'?? Yet, you take her on 15 mile hacks knowing her weak leg as you describe it is struggling?  And any vet who says you can do what work you like with her, because it's almost impossible to over work a 7 year old needs striking off I'm afraid.

Absolutely incredible.


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## debsflo (4 September 2014)

Full vet work out for me too, she cant be hunting fit if shes had the summer off,it takes a long slow steady work and shes struggling from what you say. Full work up i suggest.


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## Amymay (4 September 2014)

So the tripping is still recent then.....

Does she trip more when she's allowed to 'bumble' along? 

How often is she shod?


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## joycec (4 September 2014)

Two fifteen mile rides on consecutive days on a horse with a weak hind leg eight weeks after a layoff long enough to remove all or most of her fitness ? And a nasty fall on the road on the same week? No wonder she has fallen over with your daughter.


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## Devonshire dumpling (4 September 2014)

Oh my goodness, stop twisting my words I am not after people veterinary opinions I have a fantastic vet, I am asking on people views on rotational tripping falls ..
I have owned the horse since feb 2013, she's hunted oct 2013 until march 2014, been rested with a clean bill of health, been brought back into work with road work, and had light lunging , which hasn't worked for us, been recommended we try schooling instead with an instructor I might add, working on a program from physio, had like 1 lesson ... It is excessive for what I would do with her, but but 15 miles rides ( 3.5 hr ride ) is far from excessive for a horse ....   Seriously people have no idea what a long ride is for a horse , I also add she slipped up on road and was checked , no I'll affects, her squaring off that hoof is what we work on it's her action , vet or physio not bothered other than advising I try to get her working a bit straighter with physio keeping her supple inbetween.

I've stated she may have some neuro problems and going to ask for further tests, but not going to speculate , cob owners will realise the issues with tripping... Thanks for scaring off the timid people who might like to have commented with something constructive ... Same old same old here!
And  same old bored bags having a dig


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## Char0901 (4 September 2014)

Probably going to get jumped on here bit I'm a little confused too.
I understand what you're saying but it is a lot of work. I'm not saying she's over worked but for a horse lacking muscles in the correct places it must be hard.
I believe 10 minute walk/trot hill work and a nice canter up a stubble field would be better a few times a week. Rome wasn't built in a day and she'll take time to develop. Her balance should improve when correct muscle is formed.
And sorry but I'm a big lover of the pessoa. Used correctly I find its a brilliant tool, providing you know what you're doing with it.


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## Amymay (4 September 2014)

To be fair, DD, your opening post is less than clear.

And as someone who's owned a cob - what issues with tripping?


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## dogatemysalad (4 September 2014)

She seems to be suddenly going from field rest to quite demanding work. Fitness needs to be built up and going from nought to 60 straight away is too much.


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## Devonshire dumpling (4 September 2014)

amymay said:



			So the tripping is still recent then.....

Does she trip more when she's allowed to 'bumble' along? 

How often is she shod?
		
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She's shod every 6 weeks , so on week 5 !  She hasn't tripped until today .... Last time she tripped was back when I first got her before a season tripping.
Bumbling along is fine, historically she tripped when she rushed and was on ether forehand and running through the bridle, like I say, she's changed massively since then ... She was unable to walk in a straight line when I got her , on fact used to run up the bank!!


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## Devonshire dumpling (4 September 2014)

She had 6 weeks off was hunting fit before ... Takes 12 weeks to lose total fitness and has been back in work for what 8 weeks?  Although was lunged during the 6 week rest .......


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## shortstuff99 (4 September 2014)

My old mare was a hunting cob. She also jumped and evented and never had a problem with tripping. I have also known other cobs in my time and they also have never had a problem tripping. The only horses I have known to trip have a had a medical issue. For peace of mind I would have a full work up as tripping to me is not a normal cob thing.


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## Devonshire dumpling (4 September 2014)

joycec said:



			Two fifteen mile rides on consecutive days on a horse with a weak hind leg eight weeks after a layoff long enough to remove all or most of her fitness ? And a nasty fall on the road on the same week? No wonder she has fallen over with your daughter.
		
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No... 2 fifteen mile rides  4 days apart ...... Go give up you're all exhausting me, not bothering to read what I said and ranting.


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## brucethegypsycob (4 September 2014)

4 foals by the age of 6. What's that all about for starters


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## Hoof_Prints (4 September 2014)

To be honest, that sounds a lot of work and if my horse was falling right over (I don't know if you've become a bit desensitized to the fact that is really quite serious!) I wouldn't be taking it out on long hacks with repeated concussion on the joints/ possible affected area. I've had unbalanced youngsters and clumsy cobs, none have ever had a rotational tripping fall, if they did i'd be very, very concerned...


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## Moomin1 (4 September 2014)

The fact is OP, the warning signs have all been there from the outset - the very first fall she had, you say she was showing her weakness on the way home in that leg.  Yet you decide to then take her on two 15 mile rides (I don't care what you say - that is a lot for a horse who you are saying cannot do basic schooling because she lacks strength and muscle).  I cannot understand the mentality of that. And putting your 14 year old daughter on board too....

It's pretty clear from your post that the tripping has something to do with either an underlying issue, or sheer lack of strength, muscle and balance to be doing that amount of work.  So my course of action if I were you would be to stop working her completely until the vet has been and done a full work up.  If all clear, I would then be bringing her back into work very very slowly, with the help of your instructor, and going back to basics, building up strength and balance and working through the stages of training before hairing off on 15 mile fun rides.


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## joycec (4 September 2014)

Devonshire dumpling said:



			No... 2 fifteen mile rides  4 days apart ...... Go give up you're all exhausting me, not bothering to read what I said and ranting.
		
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Still to much work for a horse you say is not strong enough to jump and has a weak hind leg.  You just don't want to be told you've got it wrong, do you? Why did you ask?


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## Devonshire dumpling (4 September 2014)

Yes I will, but not until my vet is back , there's a locum vet on practice at the moment .    I think they need to investigate for piece of mind.


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## JustKickOn (4 September 2014)

Devonshire dumpling said:



			Oh my goodness, stop twisting my words I am not after people veterinary opinions I have a fantastic vet, I am asking on people views on rotational tripping falls ..
I have owned the horse since feb 2013, she's hunted oct 2013 until march 2014, been rested with a clean bill of health, been brought back into work with road work, and had light lunging , which hasn't worked for us, been recommended we try schooling instead with an instructor I might add, working on a program from physio, had like 1 lesson ... It is excessive for what I would do with her, but but 15 miles rides ( 3.5 hr ride ) is far from excessive for a horse ....   Seriously people have no idea what a long ride is for a horse , I also add she slipped up on road and was checked , no I'll affects, her squaring off that hoof is what we work on it's her action , vet or physio not bothered other than advising I try to get her working a bit straighter with physio keeping her supple inbetween.

I've stated she may have some neuro problems and going to ask for further tests, but not going to speculate , cob owners will realise the issues with tripping... Thanks for scaring off the timid people who might like to have commented with something constructive ... Same old same old here!
And  same old bored bags having a dig
		
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Same old same old indeed.

Same old post asking for opinions and then poohooing because they don't like what they read. 

Your horse is doing too much work, too soon after coming back into work.
She has a weak leg. The tripping and falling is telling you she cannot cope. 
Your physio has given you advice as to what to do, and you've ignored it. A Pessoa asks the horses to step under more, which helps build up muscle on the top of their bum. You've ignored the advice from the physio, then said she needs to develop muscle in the place a Pessoa will help.  They are effective gadgets when used for maximum 20 mins and in walk only. 
After a series of falls, or even the first, I would not be riding this horse (and if I had kids they certainly wouldn't be riding them!!). 

The mare is telling you something is wrong. Why have you ridden her intensively for two weeks before doing something?! 

Get your vet.
Get another vet for a second opinion.


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## Amymay (4 September 2014)

Devonshire dumpling said:



			She's shod every 6 weeks , so on week 5 !  She hasn't tripped until today .... Last time she tripped was back when I first got her before a season tripping.
Bumbling along is fine, historically she tripped when she rushed and was on ether forehand and running through the bridle, like I say, she's changed massively since then ... She was unable to walk in a straight line when I got her , on fact used to run up the bank!!
		
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Ah right. You said she hadn't tripped _ since_ the summer. I took that to mean recently.

I think 6 weeks is a long time in between shoeing generally - especially when your doing so much work. I would absolutely talk to your farrier about a 5 week shoeing programme.

And perhaps start working with your instructor on working on athleticism and suppling work.

I would also take a step back work wise, and re-evaluate the words your vet actually used. My vet has always told me to give my horses as much work as possible. What he has never meant, though, is to do this without consideration for what that work is and the management of the horse.


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## Bexx (4 September 2014)

Just the same as people, different horses cope differently with work loads. This work load may not have been too much for a horse you have previously owned, but you need to treat each horse as an individual. They all need to be built up from scratch and some take longer than others. Considering your mare has had 4 foals already, it does not surprise me in the slightest that she is weak. If it was me, I'd get a full work up from the vet. Only when the vet is happy I'd start completely from scratch. Lost of long lining initially. Short hacks with bursts of walk and trot, building up in time every few weeks and eventually introducing some poles. The young mare I ride has been in work all summer but the longest she hacks out is 2 hours as I don't want to over do it


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## be positive (4 September 2014)

I think 3.5 hours of hacking on testing terrain is excessive for a horse not long back in work, who has recently had a fall, who has a history of being weak and getting tired on one hind leg.

 Generally most horses are not worked hard enough but they need to be sound and fit to do so, the weak hind leg has not responded to the treatment so far if it is still weak 18 months after her starting work with you and I think it requires proper investigation by a vet, there could be numerous things going on which no amount of physio and hard work will put right, having a horse with a recently diagnosed SI injury I know how long these type of things take to find and how long it will take to fix if it ever can be, he would be more than able to go off for a long jolly hack, he was doing regular 2 hour hacks last year despite not being quite right but I was told by my then vet to keep going and get him fit, totally the wrong thing but I was told to so we continued until I had enough of riding a horse that was not quite right, he also tripped although never falling over, horses rarely go down let alone more than once unless they really have problems.


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## Amymay (4 September 2014)

Have your vets ever discussed pelvic nerve damage op, caused by difficult or immature foalings?


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## Devonshire dumpling (4 September 2014)

Not at all, I am an intelligent person , what bugs me is people don't read the posts properly,   My vet is amazing , ppl wait to be allowed on his list ...  The facts are he the horse has tripped ONCE... She he slipped up the other week , that is very different, I recognise it's not normal to have a rotational fall l hence why I said in my original post that we need to investigate further. I worded it badly when is I my horse is weak, she's incredibly strong in her back end, huge strong backside, but the muscles are wrong, so jumping is difficult for her, and so is schooling, but they don't want intensive schooling, Pessoa work has been dropped as it's hard for her on the  left rein, plenty of ways to skin a cat,this is on my physios say so!
If i didn't have a vet or physio or master saddle fitter I can understand your strong opinions, but my horse is seen regularily and we are following a program . 
How do you feel about my other horse having choke last night and going on  a 15 miler today?  Because I asked the locum vet that question too....
I think people have no understanding of a 3 hour hack in  a horse, you see 15  miles and think omg , you are probably the same people who rug your horses because you have  a coat on.   My horses work, they are well looked after and have hundreds of pounds spend on them for treatment, some for my piece of mind.   Yes I do think some of you are  ridiculous , I also come to this forum in her he hope I can sift through the opinionated no noughts and glean  all little good advice from knowledgeable people.
Very arrogant to suggest I am ignoring my vet  , I think I am guilty for wording  weak back end ... But my vet is adament I do transitions to build her  io  rather than intense schooling.   
Usual suspects jumped on the band wagon without reading.


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## Devonshire dumpling (4 September 2014)

No but she lost her last foal ?
I have never really had a bad tripping with her before and was a thing of her he past, but certainly worth discussing, thankyou !


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## Moomin1 (4 September 2014)

Dear god I think I am about to combust....


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## The Fuzzy Furry (4 September 2014)

I think people have no understanding of a 3 hour hack in a horse, you see 15 miles and think omg , you are probably the same people who rug your horses because you have a coat on. My horses work, they are well looked after and have hundreds of pounds spend on them for treatment, some for my piece of mind.
		
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DD, be careful with getting carried away on your keyboard & labelling people......  that is what I call ignorant.


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## LizzieWizzie (4 September 2014)

Wow! People come to forums for advice from fellow horse lovers, not a crucifixion. All those with different experiences have an opportunity to help others and instead you make people afraid to ask by going straight for the jugular!

If you don't understand a post or if the original explanation does not carry as much information as you would like to be able to help then ask OP constructive questions don't just assume and go for the kill. OP is concerned for her mare has consulted experts, reputable vets, farriers and physio. OP has clearly stated that mare hasn't tripped recently until today, slipped previously on smooth road. Has had full work up since fall and given clean bill of health. OP has stated that she is schooling with instructor to correct balance and build correct muscles. OP is asking for your advice, benefit of your knowledge.

People are afraid to come to places like this when they need advice, you could cost a beautiful horse it's life! When someone needs help with colic or something terrible why would they come to you for help when they would be far too afraid of your wrath! You all have just thrown your egos full force into a game of 'who's lead mare round here'. You should all be ashamed! Surely someone has something constructive to Say?!


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## Devonshire dumpling (4 September 2014)

Yes she wouldn't usually be worked this hard , I said that  in my original post and in hindsight I think she must be tired today, they are often fizzy when tired.
I think he did cut a fair bit off last time and now ow seems to be good hoof growing , I will take that on board and speak to my farrier, he did suggest longer on last visit.


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## joycec (4 September 2014)

Transitions ARE intense schooling, especially on a weak hind leg.  Does your vet actually understand what he's saying?


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## Devonshire dumpling (4 September 2014)

Yep I can tell, you are an angry person.. Suggest You go have a lie down


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## JustKickOn (4 September 2014)

In that case may I suggest you write your posts with a little more clarity so people can get a true picture.


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## Moomin1 (4 September 2014)

LizzieWizzie said:



			Wow! People come to forums for advice from fellow horse lovers, not a crucifixion. All those with different experiences have an opportunity to help others and instead you make people afraid to ask by going straight for the jugular!

If you don't understand a post or if the original explanation does not carry as much information as you would like to be able to help then ask OP constructive questions don't just assume and go for the kill. OP is concerned for her mare has consulted experts, reputable vets, farriers and physio. OP has clearly stated that mare hasn't tripped recently until today, slipped previously on smooth road. Has had full work up since fall and given clean bill of health. OP has stated that she is schooling with instructor to correct balance and build correct muscles. OP is asking for your advice, benefit of your knowledge.

People are afraid to come to places like this when they need advice, you could cost a beautiful horse it's life! When someone needs help with colic or something terrible why would they come to you for help when they would be far too afraid of your wrath! You all have just thrown your egos full force into a game of 'who's lead mare round here'. You should all be ashamed! Surely someone has something constructive to Say?!
		
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Are you for real??  'When someone needs help with colic'?  Err..you call a vet...not take the advice of people on a forum.

The mind actually boggles.  It really does.


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## Devonshire dumpling (4 September 2014)

No I haven t ignored my physio, it's been discussed the Pessoa is too much with her behaviour in her he lunge, she went away with the instructor for a week as she wouldn't even lunge at first, why are you not listening?  Seriously I have already said it was decided the pessoa was not going to work


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## Devonshire dumpling (4 September 2014)

Or people could ask and not assume


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## Devonshire dumpling (4 September 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			Are you for real??  'When someone needs help with colic'?  Err..you call a vet...not take the advice of people on a forum.

The mind actually boggles.  It really does.
		
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And there you go attacking some one else too, she's quite right, if I someone came here for advice saying my horse is rolling a lot today, you lot might slate them, when really they need someone explaining, my mind boggles and to be honest I give up....


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## BWa (4 September 2014)

I was always taught that you do one week walk work for every week of rest (for hunters) so if she has has 6 weeks off, she needs six weeks walk work to strengthen legs before the more intense work begins. I think they can lose fitness much quicker than 12 weeks, even if out 24/7, correct muscle tone will quickly disappear if it's not being used. This is where the Pessoa may help.


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## Amymay (4 September 2014)

Devonshire dumpling said:



			How do you feel about my other horse having choke last night and going on  a 15 miler today?  Because I asked the locum vet that question too....
		
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I'm guessing that's not a serious question - because we know what a competent equine vets' answer to that would be. A big fat no....




			I think people have no understanding of a 3 hour hack in  a horse, you see 15  miles and think omg , you are probably the same people who rug your horses because you have  a coat on.   My horses work, they are well looked after and have hundreds of pounds spend on them for treatment, some for my piece of mind.
		
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And yes, I for one, have a full understanding of a three hour hack (although what that has to with anything is beyond me). As for the rest, that's just rude and childish.

People are frustrated because your posts are hard to follow (timelines skewed,  issues described - but then contradicted (I refer to your first post where you say she tripped loads, but now has only done it once)), a simple lack of understanding of workloads vs good management.....


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## Leo Walker (4 September 2014)

I have 2 cobs, a 15.2hh show cob type and a 14.2hh traditional. The tradtional tripped twice yesterday on a 40 min walk hack. He tripped because hes a 4yr old out on his first proper hack from a new yard and was gawking at everything. But I also appreciate that he was probably a little bit tired, mentally more than physically. i know why hes done it and it doesnt worry me. If I didnt know why I would be worrying, especially if he had a weak hindleg and incorrect muscle development. If my older boy started tripping I'd be wanting a full work up. Cobs dont trip more than any other horse without a reason surely?! Where has the incorrect muscle development come from? They dont usually develop incorrectly unless they have a problem or are ridden incorrectly surely?


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## Devonshire dumpling (4 September 2014)

joycec said:



			Transitions ARE intense schooling, especially on a weak hind leg.  Does your vet actually understand what he's saying?
		
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Actually you have me thinking ...... I might sack him and he you instead.


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## LizzieWizzie (4 September 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			Are you for real??  'When someone needs help with colic'?  Err..you call a vet...not take the advice of people on a forum.

The mind actually boggles.  It really does.
		
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Another ridiculous assumption by you! Of course they do moomin1, but when the vet has left and and you're left on watch, scared and worried, you turn to the advice and comfort of fellow horse owners, unless of course they just make assumptions and accusations like you! Constructive as ever.... Impressive! We're talking about advice here not bitching. Your response to this post just proves your purpose here.


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## Devonshire dumpling (4 September 2014)

FrankieCob said:



			I have 2 cobs, a 15.2hh show cob type and a 14.2hh traditional. The tradtional tripped twice yesterday on a 40 min walk hack. He tripped because hes a 4yr old out on his first proper hack from a new yard and was gawking at everything. But I also appreciate that he was probably a little bit tired, mentally more than physically. i know why hes done it and it doesnt worry me. If I didnt know why I would be worrying, especially if he had a weak hindleg and incorrect muscle development. If my older boy started tripping I'd be wanting a full work up. Cobs dont trip more than any other horse without a reason surely?! Where has the incorrect muscle development come from? They dont usually develop incorrectly unless they have a problem or are ridden incorrectly surely?
		
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She came to be as an abused 6 yr old who had 4 foals, was extremely underweight and been driven, yes she was worked incorrectly ... I fact she's 8... Uh oh .. You're hacking your 4 yr old ... Big strong slow growing breed....  Spines fuse last... Wait to your slaughter .. Poor lamb


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## Moomin1 (4 September 2014)

LizzieWizzie said:



			Another ridiculous assumption by you! Of course they do moomin1, but when the vet has left and and you're left on watch, scared and worried, you turn to the advice and comfort of fellow horse owners, unless of course they just make assumptions and accusations like you! Constructive as ever.... Impressive! We're talking about advice here not bitching. Your response to this post just proves your purpose here.
		
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Call it that if you wish - I really don't care.  I have given my advice to OP. My advice is that she has massively overworked a horse who clearly has either an underlying issue, or is not up to being worked to the extent she is.  OP doesn't appear to be able to either grasp that, or accept it -  not sure which.


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## LizzieWizzie (4 September 2014)

Devonshire dumpling said:



			And there you go attacking some one else too, she's quite right, if I someone came here for advice saying my horse is rolling a lot today, you lot might slate them, when really they need someone explaining, my mind boggles and to be honest I give up....
		
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My point exactly DD perhaps there are better places to look for advice than here! Not sure anyone is safe!!


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## LizzieWizzie (4 September 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			Call it that if you wish - I really don't care.  I have given my advice to OP. My advice is that she has massively overworked a horse who clearly has either an underlying issue, or is not up to being worked to the extent she is.  OP doesn't appear to be able to either grasp that, or accept it -  not sure which.
		
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That's what is so frustrating about this. You may well be very experienced and have very good advice. But instead of giving this in a constructive manor you scare people away by being ferocious. There is just no need for it.  Will gain you no respect.


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## Devonshire dumpling (4 September 2014)

Ok last post ..... Amy ... My mare tripped loads in he the first yr, then nothing after a seasons hunting .......... Slipped up on slippery road, ünconnected .... Then tripped today In canter.

Apologies re typing it's on the iPad, it has a mind of it's own .

Lizzie thankyou , but best not to get involved, night night


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## lauraea (4 September 2014)

I hope that after all of this, you manage to find the answers you need to help your mare  i'd definitely get her checked for any neuro problems.


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## _GG_ (4 September 2014)

LizzieWizzie said:



			Another ridiculous assumption by you! Of course they do moomin1, but when the vet has left and and you're left on watch, scared and worried, you turn to the advice and comfort of fellow horse owners, unless of course they just make assumptions and accusations like you! Constructive as ever.... Impressive! We're talking about advice here not bitching. Your response to this post just proves your purpose here.
		
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Constructive as ever, yet only 30 posts. Are you a former member?

Anyway, that is beside the point. OP, I wouldn't work the horse until she has had a full work up. I don't agree with the way you have handled things and I have read all of your posts well. I still conclude that you had opportunities to recognise a problem before this fall happened. But, that's done now, so it's where you go from here and I would suggest speaking with your farrier as Amymay has suggested and with your vet and physio. For whatever reason, the horse has been struggling and kept in continued work...they can't keep it up forever and I'm only glad the fall wasn't worse, for the mare and your daughter. 

I would also be very inclined to ask the vet about nerve damage as someone else has said. She's been an immature dam and the chances of damage are quite high from what you have said, so I would bear that in mind. It could be fixable, it could be permanent, but you'll only find out through thorough investigation. 

Good luck and please...the comments you are making about other posters may make you feel better, but they are just as likely, if not more so, to make others steer clear of sharing their advice or wanting to join in a discussion. It's just not necessary when it is so much easier to ignore that which you don't like.


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## joycec (4 September 2014)

Devonshire dumpling said:



			She came to be as an abused 6 yr old who had 4 foals, was extremely underweight and been driven, yes she was worked incorrectly ... I fact she's 8... Uh oh .. You're hacking your 4 yr old ... Big strong slow growing breed....  Spines fuse last... Wait to your slaughter .. Poor lamb
		
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So, she's eight, you've had her over two years, she still has a weak hind leg after two years and she is not fit to school or to jump and yet you hunt her and take her on three hour moorland hacks?

My constructive advice. Change your vet and your physio and stop putting your daughters life at risk until the horse is fixed.


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## LizzieWizzie (4 September 2014)

It is a very ignorant person who thinks they can help someone by attacking them.

You should all use your knowledge to educate and encourage others. Not slate them.

You would gain so much more.


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## Amymay (4 September 2014)

This is from your post just over a year ago:



Devonshire dumpling said:



. Foxy is very green, and doesn't always pick her feet up, I wally think I need to do some schooling with her, she trips. *Good trip on most hacks on the way home, *farrier has really helped with shoes, left the front clip off, but today She today she tripped, and face planted the Tarmac, I stayed on , but was close to coming off, poor love has a really sore nose.
Have asked saddle lady to come again just in case it's her saddle as she's gained condition, but suspect its a cob thing!   she doesn't Amble along but guess I didn't have her up together enough!!  does anyone have Any tips?  I really don't want that to happen again!
		
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## _GG_ (4 September 2014)

LizzieWizzie said:



			It is a very ignorant person who thinks they can help someone by attacking them.

You should all use your knowledge to educate and encourage others. Not slate them.

You would gain so much more.
		
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Sometimes things are not as they first appear. I do understand your point and agree with it to an extent, but as Amymay has just very clearly shown...sometimes people can see past the story given and realise there is more to it.

Further to that, everyone that is not understanding of the OP's decisions regarding this horse only has the horses welfare in mind...and that's never a bad thing.


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## LizzieWizzie (4 September 2014)

_GG_ said:



			Constructive as ever, yet only 30 posts. Are you a former member?

Anyway, that is beside the point. OP, I wouldn't work the horse until she has had a full work up. I don't agree with the way you have handled things and I have read all of your posts well. I still conclude that you had opportunities to recognise a problem before this fall happened. But, that's done now, so it's where you go from here and I would suggest speaking with your farrier as Amymay has suggested and with your vet and physio. For whatever reason, the horse has been struggling and kept in continued work...they can't keep it up forever and I'm only glad the fall wasn't worse, for the mare and your daughter. 

I would also be very inclined to ask the vet about nerve damage as someone else has said. She's been an immature dam and the chances of damage are quite high from what you have said, so I would bear that in mind. It could be fixable, it could be permanent, but you'll only find out through thorough investigation. 

Good luck and please...the comments you are making about other posters may make you feel better, but they are just as likely, if not more so, to make others steer clear of sharing their advice or wanting to join in a discussion. It's just not necessary when it is so much easier to ignore that which you don't like.
		
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Should never assume.... 

You were very quick to jump on the bandwagon.

It's not my mare. I am just astonished at the reception of people when others post here asking for advice. It's utterly incredible.


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## Spilletta (4 September 2014)

JustKickOn said:



			In that case may I suggest you write your posts with a little more clarity so people can get a true picture.
		
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Agree with this. 

I was confused by opening statement as it sounded like OP got a 6 year old mare in February (who has already had 4 foals by the age of 6), then had a season's hunting where she tripped all over the place. 

Some things have since been clarified but it's still a bit hard to follow.


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## Devonshire dumpling (4 September 2014)

amymay said:



			This is from your post just over a year ago:
		
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That was august 2013 before a seasons hunting !!!  Like I said!!!!!!!!!!


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## LizzieWizzie (4 September 2014)

_GG_ said:



			Sometimes things are not as they first appear. I do understand your point and agree with it to an extent, but as Amymay has just very clearly shown...sometimes people can see past the story given and realise there is more to it.

Further to that, everyone that is not understanding of the OP's decisions regarding this horse only has the horses welfare in mind...and that's never a bad thing.
		
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I agree that there is always a 'bigger picture' which is hard for anyone to condense into a quickly typed post, looking eagerly for a helpful response. I also agree that the horses welfare is paramount and have no doubt that op has demonstrated that she has her mare under the care of numerous professionals. But, my point is, that to assist both owner find the right conclusion and horse the correct help required for issue, constructive advice would be far more effective than accusations and a witch hunt.


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## Amymay (4 September 2014)

LizzieWizzie said:



			I am just astonished at the reception of people when others post here asking for advice. It's utterly incredible.
		
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It's a fair comment. But - these sorts of threads usually have the same pattern, unfortunately.  Usually because responders are concerned, confused or just down right frustrated.


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## _GG_ (4 September 2014)

LizzieWizzie said:



			Should never assume.... 

You were very quick to jump on the bandwagon.

It's not my mare. I am just astonished at the reception of people when others post here asking for advice. It's utterly incredible.
		
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Making a point. You accused someone as being "constructive as ever". That is quite an assumption in itself is it not? That's the point. Too much assumption and not enough actual thought going into it. My first post on this thread was aimed not at condemning the OP, but being honest and offering advice. If that's wrong, so be it, but people can't be blamed for getting emotionally charged when reading posts like the OP. It sets a tone.


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## _GG_ (4 September 2014)

LizzieWizzie said:



			I agree that there is always a 'bigger picture' which is hard for anyone to condense into a quickly typed post, looking eagerly for a helpful response. I also agree that the horses welfare is paramount and have no doubt that op has demonstrated that she has her mare under the care of numerous professionals. But, my point is, that to assist both owner find the right conclusion and horse the correct help required for issue, constructive advice would be far more effective than accusations and a witch hunt.
		
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Absolutely....and an OP making assumptions, accusations and being rude in response is as much a hindrance to receiving good advice as the bluntness of other posters is. Shame....as others could learn lots from threads like these.


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## _GG_ (4 September 2014)

Devonshire dumpling said:



			That was august 2013 before a seasons hunting !!!  Like I said!!!!!!!!!!
		
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But it shows knowledge of a history of tripping for this mare. I definitely wouldn't work her until after a full vet work up, diagnosis and completion of treatment.


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## Devonshire dumpling (4 September 2014)

_GG_ said:



			Absolutely....and an OP making assumptions, accusations and being rude in response is as much a hindrance to receiving good advice as the bluntness of other posters is. Shame....as others could learn lots from threads like these.
		
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You are an ambulance driver I recall?


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## Amymay (4 September 2014)

Devonshire dumpling said:



			That was august 2013 before a seasons hunting !!!  Like I said!!!!!!!!!!
		
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But DD -she's still tripping.

Isn't thst the whole point of you initial post??


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## _GG_ (4 September 2014)

Devonshire dumpling said:



			You are an ambulance driver I recall?
		
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???

Is that how you respond to people who have actually taken the time to type out a constructive post? Never driven an ambulance in my life. How very odd.


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## Devonshire dumpling (4 September 2014)

_GG_ said:



			But it shows knowledge of a history of tripping for this mare. I definitely wouldn't work her until after a full vet work up, diagnosis and completion of treatment.
		
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Yes because she was green and on her he forehand that went with good shoeing and working correctly, I am having a full work up, and have no intention of riding her after today.... I came here not for advice on her trip today, bit to find out if anyone else has a horse with a rotational fall in canter and to find out what the medical outcome was , I am not interested in ppls opinions on my mares workload or how I work her,I pay people to help me with that.


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## YorksG (4 September 2014)

What I find incredible is how, when the welfare of a horse (and incidentaly a 14 year old child) appears to be being compramised, some posters STILL expect to be patted on the back and be told that everything they are doing is correct!
Would I take this mare on three hour fast rides? No, plenty  of walk and trot transitions aand transitions within the paces, and try and build up the correct muscle tone. I would also have brought her back into work slowly.


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## Devonshire dumpling (4 September 2014)

I recall a debate about blues and twos with you  some time ago ... And there people go again being rude, and personal !!


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## Moomin1 (4 September 2014)

Devonshire dumpling said:



			Yes because she was green and on her he forehand that went with good shoeing and working correctly, I am having a full work up, and have no intention of riding her after today.... I came here not for advice on her trip today, bit to find out if anyone else has a horse with a rotational fall in canter and to find out what the medical outcome was , I am not interested in ppls opinions on my mares workload or how I work her,I pay people to help me with that.
		
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If you wanted a medical opinion on your horse after the rotational fall, you should have had a vet out straight away.  How can anyone here remotely give you any opinion or advice on a 'medical' outcome of a rotational fall?


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## Moomin1 (4 September 2014)

YorksG said:



			What I find incredible is how, when the welfare of a horse (and incidentaly a 14 year old child) appears to be being compramised, some posters STILL expect to be patted on the back and be told that everything they are doing is correct!
Would I take this mare on three hour fast rides? No, plenty  of walk and trot transitions aand transitions within the paces, and try and build up the correct muscle tone. I would also have brought her back into work slowly.
		
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Quite.


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## _GG_ (4 September 2014)

Devonshire dumpling said:



			Yes because she was green and on her he forehand that went with good shoeing and working correctly, I am having a full work up, and have no intention of riding her after today.... I came here not for advice on her trip today, bit to find out if anyone else has a horse with a rotational fall in canter and to find out what the medical outcome was , I am not interested in ppls opinions on my mares workload or how I work her,I pay people to help me with that.
		
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Ok, then may I suggest an opening post that just says, "Horse had a rotational fall in canter on a hack...anyone else got experience of this, any medical outcomes?"

You didn't. You gave a lot of information in an unclear way and yes, you've had some blunt answers and people could have worded things better, but so could you and you have been far more rude than anyone else on the thread. I came on to post constructively, that was ignored and instead, you've been somewhat strange and argumentative. I just don't get it?


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## joycec (4 September 2014)

Devonshire dumpling said:



			I recall a debate about blues and twos with you  some time ago ... And there people go again being rude, and personal !!
		
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The rudest and most personal person on this thread has been you.


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## _GG_ (4 September 2014)

Devonshire dumpling said:



			I recall a debate about blues and twos with you  some time ago ... And there people go again being rude, and personal !!
		
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Well, I've been in the back of an ambulance, but never been an ambulance driver.


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## Leo Walker (4 September 2014)

Devonshire dumpling said:



			She came to be as an abused 6 yr old who had 4 foals, was extremely underweight and been driven, yes she was worked incorrectly ... I fact she's 8... Uh oh .. You're hacking your 4 yr old ... Big strong slow growing breed....  Spines fuse last... Wait to your slaughter .. Poor lamb
		
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I'm hacking my 4 yr old for 40 mins at a time mainly in walk with a 7 stone rider. He weighs approx 500kgs so his rider is well within his capablilites. The reason I'm not riding him is because I'm a big fatty and far too heavy  So other lighter riders get the benefit of him  Hes been in "work" since June of this year. Slow steady work appropriate to his age and breed. He still lacks top line, mainly as hes not doing any school work. Hes worked into a loose contact out hacking and is muscling up and developing nicely. If 2 years down the line hes incorrectly developed, despite appropriate and correct work he would have already had a full lameness work up


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## LizzieWizzie (4 September 2014)

_GG_ said:



			Absolutely....and an OP making assumptions, accusations and being rude in response is as much a hindrance to receiving good advice as the bluntness of other posters is. Shame....as others could learn lots from threads like these.
		
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Looking from OPs perspective from the onset attack seemed the best form of defence since she was rather set upon instantly when simply asking for help and advice.

Intimidation is a form of bullying and really very unlikely to be assistive.

I would hope people would learn from this how to treat others properly, with respect and compassion. Far too lacking in this world sadly.


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## Devonshire dumpling (4 September 2014)

I want to hear people experiences, I've contacted my professionals , it's not an emergency, they will come when they are ready, she's not in pain, she tripped over, seriously.... First time, I don't think it's right hence why I have asked for help from the professionals in her he mean time I was interested in stories and outcomes, shoot me!!  Please


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## Devonshire dumpling (4 September 2014)

joycec said:



			The rudest and most personal person on this thread has been you.
		
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Ill give you that.... But I am feeling stressed, perhaps I need some magnesium


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## paddi22 (4 September 2014)

i would switch physio. I have never seen a physio sign off a horse as fine for work when it is obviously showing discomfort on the lunge. I like getting crocks of horses and fixing them up so have worked with physios on a couple of horses that had tripping issues. Recently had one horse showing discomfort turning left and physio advised to avoid riding and start doing bending and physio work from ground. Then increasing to inhand work and then lunging. All a gradual, slow process working and watching to see how horse reacts. I find it bizarre that a physio would advise you to keep working a horse and doing long hikes over difficult terrain when its obviously struggling on a leg. I would definitely change physio.


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## Amymay (4 September 2014)

Devonshire dumpling said:



			but has anyone had any experience of a *horse tripping*. In canter and going over like that?
		
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That was your question.


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## LizzieWizzie (4 September 2014)

My god, I can't keep up, my remote internet is way too slow!

I hope you can all be nice to each other and helpful!

Or at least try... Arguing is so futile!

Goodnight...


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## _GG_ (4 September 2014)

LizzieWizzie said:



			Looking from OPs perspective from the onset attack seemed the best form of defence since she was rather set upon instantly when simply asking for help and advice.

Intimidation is a form of bullying and really very unlikely to be assistive.

I would hope people would learn from this how to treat others properly, with respect and compassion. Far too lacking in this world sadly.
		
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Compassion and understanding. I do agree with most of what you have said LW. I just don't think it is wrong for people to highlight that there may be question marks. I just wish it was done less aggressively and with more respect as you say. 



Devonshire dumpling said:



			I want to hear people experiences, I've contacted my professionals , it's not an emergency, they will come when they are ready, she's not in pain, she tripped over, seriously.... First time, I don't think it's right hence why I have asked for help from the professionals in her he mean time I was interested in stories and outcomes, shoot me!!  Please
		
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She might be in pain, worth bearing in mind and I do really wish you luck and hope you and your vet can get to the bottom of it as she sounds like a really sweet mare that deserves all the attention you can lavish on her.


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## Devonshire dumpling (4 September 2014)

_GG_ said:



			Ok, then may I suggest an opening post that just says, "Horse had a rotational fall in canter on a hack...anyone else got experience of this, any medical outcomes?"

You didn't. You gave a lot of information in an unclear way and yes, you've had some blunt answers and people could have worded things better, but so could you and you have been far more rude than anyone else on the thread. I came on to post constructively, that was ignored and instead, you've been somewhat strange and argumentative. I just don't get it?
		
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I was bombarded, I couldn't keep up, I took the time to write a long post and I spent the first hour correcting assumptions.. Apologies , I just can't stand ignorant people , see so many people bullied here and they then delete the post or go quiet, I usually come on nd and speak up for them, it's always the same culprits moomin for example, Amy may I actually quite like if not a bit brash, as she is damn knowledgable , i started the thread. BY saying she will be having a full work up but in he the mean time has anyone had a rotational fall in a canter ....  You read the rest yourself.    
 I see people back track and lie on here, and I am not one of those people, I find it amazingly informative, but you have to sift through the BS.


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## joycec (4 September 2014)

LizzieWizzie said:



			Looking from OPs perspective from the onset attack seemed the best form of defence since she was rather set upon instantly when simply asking for help and advice.

Intimidation is a form of bullying and really very unlikely to be assistive.

I would hope people would learn from this how to treat others properly, with respect and compassion. Far too lacking in this world sadly.
		
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DD wasn't attacked or bullied. Post fourteen was the first overtly critical post, and imo justified by the information which had been given. The OPs respond at post fifteen was to say 'And same old bored bags having a dig'  And he/she went on to make other disparaging remarks.

Really LizzieWizzie, cut the lectures out , please.


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## be positive (4 September 2014)

paddi22 said:



			i would switch physio. I have never seen a physio sign off a horse as fine for work when it is obviously showing discomfort on the lunge. I like getting crocks of horses and fixing them up so have worked with physios on a couple of horses that had tripping issues. Recently had one horse showing discomfort turning left and physio advised to avoid riding and start doing bending and physio work from ground. Then increasing to inhand work and then lunging. All a gradual, slow process working and watching to see how horse reacts. I find it bizarre that a physio would advise you to keep working a horse and doing long hikes over difficult terrain when its obviously struggling on a leg. I would definitely change physio.
		
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I said earlier that the physio, if they have been treating this horse regularly, should have stopped long ago as she has not responded to treatment and should be referred back to the vet, she may have improved but not enough if the leg is still weak and a decent physio would not continue with treatment and certainly will not sign off for hard work a horse that is technically unlevel which this mare seems to be.


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## _GG_ (4 September 2014)

Devonshire dumpling said:



			I was bombarded, I couldn't keep up, I took the time to write a long post and I spent the first hour correcting assumptions.. Apologies , I just can't stand ignorant people , see so many people bullied here and they then delete the post or go quiet, I usually come on nd and speak up for them, it's always the same culprits moomin for example, Amy may I actually quite like if not a bit brash, as she is damn knowledgable , i started the thread. BY saying she will be having a full work up but in he the mean time has anyone had a rotational fall in a canter ....  You read the rest yourself.    
 I see people back track and lie on here, and I am not one of those people, I find it amazingly informative, but you have to sift through the BS.
		
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On much of that I agree...but I will say that Moomin1 is also very knowledgeable but sometimes people have reasons for not perhaps being as eloquent as they could....just as you had difficulty writing the post...which I absolutely empathise with. Very easy to mess it all up into a jumble of words when emotions are high.


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## Devonshire dumpling (4 September 2014)

_GG_ said:



			Compassion and understanding. I do agree with most of what you have said LW. I just don't think it is wrong for people to highlight that there may be question marks. I just wish it was done less aggressively and with more respect as you say. 

Thanks, I've been told she's not been in pain , and wasn't after the slip on the road although was given bute as a preventative on advice, perhaps the next day it was masking, perhaps things have developed over 10 days, am awaiting a call back from vet physio, she is amazingly sweet and I would never put my daughter on her if I felt she was going to fall, I am very over protective of them both, thank god she had a level 3 body protector on.
We have spent a lot of  money on her to get her where she is today and I will need my saddle checked now too
		
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## _GG_ (4 September 2014)

Expensive aren't they!


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## Moomin1 (4 September 2014)

_GG_ said:



			On much of that I agree...but I will say that Moomin1 is also very knowledgeable but sometimes people have reasons for not perhaps being as eloquent as they could....just as you had difficulty writing the post...which I absolutely empathise with. Very easy to mess it all up into a jumble of words when emotions are high.
		
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My reason for not being as eloquent as I could GG is quite simply that I get sick to the back teeth of seeing people put their horse's welfare (and in this case their child's) on the line, yet vehemently refuse to accept it, despite asking publicly for advice.  The same pattern happens over and over again in these scenarios - the story alters as the thread goes on to make it more 'acceptable' what they are doing.

I should learn to perhaps dress it up in tinsel and lights to make it more palatable in future...


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## _GG_ (4 September 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			My reason for not being as eloquent as I could GG is quite simply that I get sick to the back teeth of seeing people put their horse's welfare (and in this case their child's) on the line, yet vehemently refuse to accept it, despite asking publicly for advice.  The same pattern happens over and over again in these scenarios - the story alters as the thread goes on to make it more 'acceptable' what they are doing.

I should learn to perhaps dress it up in tinsel and lights to make it more palatable in future...
		
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You don't need to do that for me. The world needs people that tell it like it is, I wish I could find the words to do that sometimes. In fact...if I really said the first things that came into my head on these threads sometimes, I'd probably be banned! I totally get where you're coming from, hence wanting other posters to have a bit more understanding about the motivations for posts like yours. I get it and don't want you to change.


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## Moomin1 (4 September 2014)

OP, apologies if I put my opinions and advice across harshly.  I could perhaps have worded it a little more softly.


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## WelshD (4 September 2014)

If the pony hates going on one rein in the school its worth trying loose schooling. One of mine wont go one way on the lunge and always trots and he hates the pessoa with a passion.

I now loose school him in a contained area and he walks calmly round the outside with a draw rein substitute Pessoa arrangement like this (scroll down) http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?409650-Long-and-Low

he is miles calmer loose and really concentrates, its not endless circles and I can really send him forward if he tries to turn round

This may well help with balance, not very interesting granted but with a short set up time (minimal equipment) its easy to fit short sessions in


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## LizzieWizzie (4 September 2014)

joycec said:



			DD wasn't attacked or bullied. Post fourteen was the first overtly critical post, and imo justified by the information which had been given. The OPs respond at post fifteen was to say 'And same old bored bags having a dig'  And he/she went on to make other disparaging remarks.

Really LizzieWizzie, cut the lectures out , please.
		
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Post two starts aggressively from the outset and para two begins 'sorry if that sounds harsh'.

Continues from there in a mostly harsh and accusatory fashion. With some scattered constructive comments.

You should be wanting people to listen to your advice not turn them away and making them run scared. How is that for the welfare of any horse?

Joyce am I correct in thinking you're now 'telling me off' for asking you all to just be nice? Wow! Get attacked for everything around here it seems!


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## YorksG (4 September 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			My reason for not being as eloquent as I could GG is quite simply that I get sick to the back teeth of seeing people put their horse's welfare (and in this case their child's) on the line, yet vehemently refuse to accept it, despite asking publicly for advice.  The same pattern happens over and over again in these scenarios - the story alters as the thread goes on to make it more 'acceptable' what they are doing.

I should learn to perhaps dress it up in tinsel and lights to make it more palatable in future...
		
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I wouldn't bother dressing it up, unless you agree with the people who start the threads, then you are wrong and a bully   I still can't quite   understand why people insist that they only want replies to part of the story!


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## showpony (4 September 2014)

Hi OP, you came across as really defensive hence the multitude of posts. Like many have said I would recommend a full and comprehensive vet check before anyone rides her again, especially a child.
IMHO for a such a young horse to havehad 4 foals and now being worked as if getting eventing fit  is wrong... Id turn 
Horse out for at least 6 mths.


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## joycec (4 September 2014)

LizzieWizzie said:



			Post two starts aggressively from the outset and para two begins 'sorry if that sounds harsh'.

Continues from there in a mostly harsh and accusatory fashion. With some scattered constructive comments.

You should be wanting people to listen to your advice not turn them away and making them run scared. How is that for the welfare of any horse?

Joyce am I correct in thinking you're now 'telling me off' for asking you all to just be nice? Wow! Get attacked for everything around here it seems!
		
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I just wondered how many times you were going to carry on posting the same lecture over and over again.  You have not been attacked, don't be so over dramatic!

I don't agree with your definition of aggressive posts, either. And frankly it was bound to go the way it did one the OP called posters old bags and then mocked our knowledge and care of our horses.


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## Devonshire dumpling (4 September 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			My reason for not being as eloquent as I could GG is quite simply that I get sick to the back teeth of seeing people put their horse's welfare (and in this case their child's) on the line, yet vehemently refuse to accept it, despite asking publicly for advice.  The same pattern happens over and over again in these scenarios - the story alters as the thread goes on to make it more 'acceptable' what they are doing.

I should learn to perhaps dress it up in tinsel and lights to make it more palatable in future...
		
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Not at all moomin, you should probably learn to not tar everyone with the same brush, you are guilty of thst and twisting my words or perhaps you just misunderstood, or perhaps you just think you are right no matter what.   I do spend loads of money on my horses and they are insured so I can investigate if necessary, it's actually very insulting, it's not about money, I trust my vet, and I trust my physio , they would. They wouldn't dress anything up in tinsel  and be the first people to speak out if  they  felt I was doing wrong.  

They out their hands on  the horse and know her, and know their profession, there   is second to none and it's very unfair for people to say they know more.  I am actually in the veterinary trade with over 25 yrs experience I know alot of vets and understand some are not as good as others or specialise in different fields, believe me my vet is fantastic, I think perhaps instead if thinking you need to dress it uo  a bit more, perhaps you should hold your sharp tongue.  I could pick 100 posts thwt you have written that were far from constructive or helpful.

There are lots of uneducated people with no knowledge of horses, but they need to learn somewhere, friendly advice will go a lot further and more hores and people can be helped .

Three people offered constructive advice , Amy, gg and lizzie, that's sad out of so many people who might have  had something useful to say, I haven't gained anything from the majority other than high blood pressure .

Actually why am I even wasting my energy?  You will come back with something ridiculous and we are going around in circles.


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## Devonshire dumpling (4 September 2014)

WelshD said:



			If the pony hates going on one rein in the school its worth trying loose schooling. One of mine wont go one way on the lunge and always trots and he hates the pessoa with a passion.

I now loose school him in a contained area and he walks calmly round the outside with a draw rein substitute Pessoa arrangement like this (scroll down) http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?409650-Long-and-Low

he is miles calmer loose and really concentrates, its not endless circles and I can really send him forward if he tries to turn round

This may well help with balance, not very interesting granted but with a short set up time (minimal equipment) its easy to fit short sessions in
		
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That's doable as my instructor has a round pen , thankyou !!


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## _GG_ (4 September 2014)

Devonshire dumpling said:



			Not at all moomin, you should probably learn to not tar everyone with the same brush, you are guilty of thst and twisting my words or perhaps you just misunderstood, or perhaps you just think you are right no matter what.   I do spend loads of money on my horses and they are insured so I can investigate if necessary, it's actually very insulting, it's not about money, I trust my vet, and I trust my physio , they would. They wouldn't dress anything up in tinsel  and be the first people to speak out if  they  felt I was doing wrong.  

They out their hands on  the horse and know her, and know their profession, there   is second to none and it's very unfair for people to say they know more.  I am actually in the veterinary trade with over 25 yrs experience I know alot of vets and understand some are not as good as others or specialise in different fields, believe me my vet is fantastic, I think perhaps instead if thinking you need to dress it uo  a bit more, perhaps you should hold your sharp tongue.  I could pick 100 posts thwt you have written that were far from constructive or helpful.

There are lots of uneducated people with no knowledge of horses, but they need to learn somewhere, friendly advice will go a lot further and more hores and people can be helped .

Three people offered constructive advice , Amy, gg and lizzie, that's sad out of so many people who might have  had something useful to say, I haven't gained anything from the majority other than high blood pressure .

Actually why am I even wasting my energy?  You will come back with something ridiculous and we are going around in circles.
		
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Moomin1 apologised to you. Check previous page as I think it would be worth apologising back perhaps.


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## LizzieWizzie (4 September 2014)

It's really not hard to be direct and constructive with your opinions and advice without being inflammatory. To ask the right questions and give what you think is the right advice. No one needs to get a nasty at all, or do they need to be just be agreeable. 

Just have a little tact perhaps.


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## LizzieWizzie (4 September 2014)

joycec said:



			I just wondered how many times you were going to carry on posting the same lecture over and over again.  You have not been attacked, don't be so over dramatic!

I don't agree with your definition of aggressive posts, either. And frankly it was bound to go the way it did one the OP called posters old bags and then mocked our knowledge and care of our horses.
		
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You're after me now! Woah!! It's almost funny! I rest my case! (Exasperated!)

And as you yourself just said previously OP got flustered at around post 14/15 after a barrage!


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## Devonshire dumpling (4 September 2014)

_GG_ said:



			Moomin1 apologised to you. Check previous page as I think it would be worth apologising back 
I had missed the apology and was replying to the next post , guessing the apology was a non apology , a sad really.

Right have a headache, night
		
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## Moomin1 (4 September 2014)

Devonshire dumpling said:



			Not at all moomin, you should probably learn to not tar everyone with the same brush, you are guilty of thst and twisting my words or perhaps you just misunderstood, or perhaps you just think you are right no matter what.   I do spend loads of money on my horses and they are insured so I can investigate if necessary, it's actually very insulting, it's not about money, I trust my vet, and I trust my physio , they would. They wouldn't dress anything up in tinsel  and be the first people to speak out if  they  felt I was doing wrong.  

They out their hands on  the horse and know her, and know their profession, there   is second to none and it's very unfair for people to say they know more.  I am actually in the veterinary trade with over 25 yrs experience I know alot of vets and understand some are not as good as others or specialise in different fields, believe me my vet is fantastic, I think perhaps instead if thinking you need to dress it uo  a bit more, perhaps you should hold your sharp tongue.  I could pick 100 posts thwt you have written that were far from constructive or helpful.

There are lots of uneducated people with no knowledge of horses, but they need to learn somewhere, friendly advice will go a lot further and more hores and people can be helped .

Three people offered constructive advice , Amy, gg and lizzie, that's sad out of so many people who might have  had something useful to say, I haven't gained anything from the majority other than high blood pressure .

Actually why am I even wasting my energy?  You will come back with something ridiculous and we are going around in circles.
		
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Right.  My advice to you would be perhaps ask your vet about the medical outcome of a rotational fall then, as they are usually best placed to advise.  All the best.


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## joycec (4 September 2014)

LizzieWizzie said:



			You're after me now! Woah!! It's almost funny! I rest my case! (Exasperated!)

And as you yourself just said previously OP got flustered at around post 14/15 after a barrage!
		
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'After you'?  How much more melodramatic can you get?

OP did not get flustered, she got personally abusive, and continued to be personally abusive in later posts.


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## Goldenstar (5 September 2014)

Ok , my penneth ,
Never let a clumsy horse wear a set of shoes for than five weeks .
I would guess something is more wrong with this horse that weakness and a full work up is what's called for .
I would not allow anyone to ride the horse again you are extremely fortunate OP that your child is not injured .
If the work up finds no reason for the tripping / falling I would not ride the horse again it's not worth the risk .
My last hunter started tripping and fell once on the flat he had KS .


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## millikins (5 September 2014)

We owned a gangly, clumsy youngster who had 3 witnessed falls in 13 mnths. Not rotational but lost his back end and went down flat on his side. After extensive vet and physio (walking in long lines, massage, H wave), problem diagnosed as old hip/sacroiliac damage meaning he was unable to put weight through his R hip. Sadly he was condemned as unsafe to ride and PTS.


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## millikins (5 September 2014)

Actually GS, you diagnosed the problem ours had instantly when I posted on here.


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## Goldenstar (5 September 2014)

millikins said:



			Actually GS, you diagnosed the problem ours had instantly when I posted on here.
		
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Sorry I was right .


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## JFTDWS (5 September 2014)

I've never had a rotational fall in canter (only once, over a fence, on my idiot youngster), but my old cob had form for tripping and used to sometimes go flat on his face in canter, land on his feet and carry on (in fact, he used to come up faster than he went down...).  Maybe it's because I was a very death wish-fueled teenager when this happened, but I don't think we ever panicked about it - we did discuss it with my farrier, who wasn't overly concerned, and possibly with a vet, but we just accepted he was a bit of an idiot.  He went on to jump xc and sj, TREC, play horseball and all sorts.  15 milers were short hacks for us in his prime.  He's made it to his 20s without any evidence of any relevant welfare issues, so I doubt it was terribly cruel of us to not investigate it.   But maybe I'm wrong, I can't say I've ever really thought about it before I read this thread. 

That said, a full rotational is a bit different...


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## windand rain (5 September 2014)

I think you would find that a lot of horses are more than capable of doing 15 mile hacks straight from the field in all paces if they are living out but that is beside the point this mare has an issue with tripping without seeing her my guess would be she is on her forehand and not bringing her hind end under her. If she is weak and unless she has some outstanding problems from foaling at an early age and driving at what I would assume to be a very early age, schooling is what she needs to build up her strength and get her to use her back end. I what I don't agree with is that she can have a weak hind leg which to me means she is lame and should therefore be treated as such. Investigations are ongoing so hopefully will throw some light on things but at a guess she has been damaged before the OP got her and will therefore either need long term rehab and treatment or to be retired as a field ornament/PTS  Whatever caused the fall today she is evidently not safe to ride by anyone never mind a child so until she can work on both reins evenly with no weakness I would stay off her back and work with her from the ground either free or on long lines I am no fan of lunging or Pessoa treatment especially for horses already on the forehand


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## siennamum (5 September 2014)

My sons horse did have a rotational fall in canter, which was bizarre to watch & thankfully over so quickly there wasn't time to be scared. This was when he was first in work, and he had a habit of stumbling.
It was partly because he was in the process of having his feet rebalanced. Partly because he was incredibly on the forehand, and a big front heavy horse, and partly because my son had thrown the reins at him & not helped him balance himself

He's outgrown it, and it was not something which ever had medical implications, really rather requiring correct work & better riding. 

A vet check will show you if your mare has an issue which may be causing this. It could be that she is unbalancing herself compensating for a wrench or injury from her last fall. 

I must confess  given that the endurance trial for TB types at 3 day events is 15 odd miles, I actually think that across moorland terrain at all paces, it is a hard days work for a  heavy ish cob. I would want my horse to be 100% to do it, sounds like there is something niggling there with yours OP.


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## hairycob (5 September 2014)

OK OP - experience & outcome straight up. 
The whole description sounds very like my friends horse, Tripped a lot, bit weak on one side but a youngster (5) & green so to be expected, otherwise seemed sound. Fell/tripped/slipped a couple of times once the hacks started getting longer (2+ hours). Last fall left him lame. Sent to Cambridge Vet School for scintigraphy - severe longstanding pelvic damage, pts at 6 after 8 months of rehab as not improving.


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## throughtheforest (5 September 2014)

Hi OP i have expérience with cobs tripping and one fall too from a very unbalanced gelding who liked to go down hill. 
What i looked at was confirmation which is something you cant change, this certainly played a part but what I found to improve the downhill cobs way of going dramatically was long-reining and lunging with 2 lines. He was a different horse afterwards and never fell or tripped again.
Coupled with what you are already doing I really recommend you try it. 

Best of luck.

Amy


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## Devonshire dumpling (5 September 2014)

Thanks for your experiences.....
15 miles is nothing for her and you are correct she can't track up, I've always been told it's good news by physio as she's not lame with it, she was unable to cross her hind legs in a tight circle on one rein , but after treatment ( 2 sessions ) this recovered , and she is even in her pelvis now.  The squaring of her toe was during this time, and also went away , so we hunted of a year and the mare didnt trip once , really found her feet, and fifth leg, hunted over all sorts of terrain, and never came home before 4 pm , so you can imagine the miles, am sure a long standing issue would have become apparent.
2 weeks ago she wiped out on the road, all 4 legs slipped to left on very shiny wet Tarmac in walk and she landed on her side , we fell very heavily .... Was on the way home she was knuckling that hind slightly for about 5 paces in trot then it cleared, I literally put it down to a dead leg, 450 kg of horse slamming the toad.
Fun ride 4 days later she was fine, didn't trip once , but slight knuckling on that hind for maybe one pace when she walked down a steep hill, alot of horses do this , so wasnt  panic stricken and was professionally trotted up.
Yesterday didnt trip once, and was on homeward stretch, daughter said she was raring to go, pulling let her go for a canter on smooth ground, maybe slight undulation said she was holding back if my other horse got left behind, when he caught up she would bomb on ( mare does nap like this ) more interested in other horse rather than her jockey .    Then she nose plants ground, bum up in air, over and into her side, the momentum of canter sent her flying, she's assuming it was a trip.   Absolutely no leg dragging today, full of life and eager, all seems a bit bizaar to me.   Vets have physio have and did give full clearance for full work as the mare was sound and even, told nothing wrong after this two initial treatments.    Further treatments have been just to make sure she's building her muscles correctly and make sure no aches and pains as she went from tiny to lots if muscles, my physio says it's like any sports person she will need regular physio.     She is naturally on her forehand and i get her in check if rushing to prevent tripping.
Lesson last week we worked on straightness in walk and trot , leg yielding and a simple exercise to get her stepping from behind from a half halt, instructor said she's getting it, and was pleased she wasn't falling all over the place working in circles and she's carrying herself now.
All positive really , and tripping went from bad to nothing over a year , I will investigate it, it scared  me , my daughter and my mare was shaken, but I truly think it's a green thing, just because she's 8 doesn't mean she should be treated differently than a 4 yr old .
I think in hindsight which is a wonderful thing, I should have had a thorough exam post road splatting, but hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Thankyou all for taking the time to tell me about your experiences


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## EstherYoung (5 September 2014)

This thread has confused me. 

However, in an attempt to answer what I think the original question was meant to be... Two examples of falls for you. 

1) Our horse went spectacularly splat in the field. Checked out by the physio, he'd jarred himself across the diagonal. Given an 8 week ban on schooling in a school (ie no circles, just straight lines) and told to work on stretching etc out hacking. Followed instructions to the letter. Horse fine. 

2) Friend's horse went spectacularly splat being broken in badly. Resulted in injury induced wobblers and sacroilliac strain. Horse PTS.

So it could be sommat, or it could be nowt. As horse has a history of tripping/hind end weakness, my money would be on 'sommat'. Get the vet.

I hope the horse comes right.

Re The comments about 15 miles. For a sound healthy horse, even if they're not that fit, 15 miles is absolutely nowt, particularly if ridden steadily. They'll walk that in the field. However, for a horse with issues 15 miles is a long way. Hills, jumps, deep going or rocky moorland will all add to the difficulty level. I always say that it was as rewarding and just as much of an effort to get our old screwed up TB fit enough to do 15 mile pleasure rides as it was to get my Arab to advanced endurance.


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## Devonshire dumpling (5 September 2014)

Mare when I got her










Mare last season


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## Amymay (5 September 2014)

Gorgeous!


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## Slightlyconfused (5 September 2014)

Have only read half the posts but will say that having a vet work up on her would be the best thing in my book.

My elephant of a horse used to trip, he was unbalanced and lazy and schooling out hacking helped that, lots of walk trot transitions didn't canter for a long while until trot was good, then onl little burst. Leg yielding round patches of grass etc all helped build up his back end. When he is tired he still trips but you just need your leg on to make him pick his feet up.

He had one back trip after a long hack and then kept lock up a back leg but by the time the vet came out it had unlocked so it's was a 'work him till he breaks more' type of thing as he was sound before and after the lock. Wasn't until he stayed locked long enough for vet to get there and agree yes he has locking stifle and no it didn't happen before his fall that we have a direction on where to scan. Turns out he has torn one of his patella ligaments. 

Sometimes it's hard to know where to start when it isn't all the time but a complete work up of her hind end would a good place to start. 

Hope you get answers.


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## siennamum (5 September 2014)

I think her conformation would make it hard for her tostay off the forehand. I bet that is a large part of your problem


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## MDB (5 September 2014)

Devonshire dumpling said:



			1)4 mile exercise hack, half trot and half walking, she was super duper fiery and up for it, no tripping.

2)next day an hours lesson in walk and trot, just working in straightness.

3) 2 days later she went for a 9 mile ride and about 4 miles from home she slammed the ground on her side, my daughter was behind and said she watched her back legs slip to the left on a shiny Tarmac and front legs went same way, these things happen, was bad fall but horse slipped up,  trotting short bursts on way home she not lifting her right hind fully for road clearance, call physio.

4) next day bring her out of field, trot her up, everything back to normal, must just have been tightness and that's her weak leg.

5) 3 days later ... 15 mile Funride, no tripping but last mile that leg got tired again 

6) 4 days later ( today) trip to Exmoor so 50 mins in trailer then 15 miles of all down hill in walk, horse  absolutely full of it, long climb up to moor , and mile walking on flat then canter with my 14 yr old daughter on board, flat even ground good going, suddenly see horse face plant the ground and up and over in a head stand, miraculously both fine if not a little stunned and confidence a bit rock bottom for mare and daughter .
		
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Well.. I am a total novice when it comes to horse care, however, I am an expert in rehabilitation of the human variety  so here is my take on it....

Your horse had a really bad fall on the tarmac, and obviously injured (to some degree) a leg which has a pre-existing problem as you said she was struggling to lift it on the way home. Furthermore, with such a fall, who knows what else she may have strained or tweaked without necessarily showing obviously signs to you. 

Inflammation in the body (after injury) builds and generally peaks at 48-72 hours post injury. This is precisely when you went for another longish hack and she was weak again on the same leg although didn't trip. Nothing was done in the three days between tarmac fall and this hack... no in hand walks, stretches or checking over to ensure stiffness didn't build up or to see if there were new signs of issues elsewhere??

Then nothing for four days and another hack and boom!

When a human has a fall or injury, even a sprained ankle it can take up to 8 weeks to resolve.. yet your horse was back to normal workload in 3 days just when any inflammation will be peaking. 

Personally I think it is even more important to take it slowly and thoroughly with animals.. dogs, cats, horses... because they can't say to you "oh yeah and I also feel a bit stiff in my shoulder" or such like.

Good luck, I hope you get your horse sorted.


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## Devonshire dumpling (5 September 2014)

Thanks Amy, she is not only gorgeous but has a temperment to die for all so, I haven't slept all night mulling things over, am trying not to panic and tell myself she has improved over the last yr not got worse !!  Sienna unfortunately she will have to work with what god gave her .
I have decided if she he gets a clean bill of health I will go back to basics with my instructor, hunting has done it's job, given her foot awareness and built strength, and she's grown up....  
Now to refine it and set her up for life with a good bottom.


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## Tnavas (5 September 2014)

I would consider having a chiro look at her neck. I've had two TB's that have been trippers despite quality foot care.

Both had a history of physical trauma, one got cast under a fence with legs either side of a post, the other nosedived over a hurdle during jump training.

The first took around 18 months of fortnightly manipulation, 7th cervical was out. Then after crashing with me in similar situation as your daughters pony was manipulated Nader general anaesthetic. 100% sorted.

Second horse required sedation for the first few manipulation so as he would just lift his front feet off the ground and move himself into the direction the chiro was trying to manipulate his neck. It took a year to sort out , but was finally 100%.

One of the things I've done for many years is have the chiro look over any horse immediately after a fall. Sort damage as fast as possible to allow muscles to recover with minimal damage.


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## Devonshire dumpling (5 September 2014)

MDB said:



			Well.. I am a total novice when it comes to horse care, however, I am an expert in rehabilitation of the human variety  so here is my take on it....

Your horse had a really bad fall on the tarmac, and obviously injured (to some degree) a leg which has a pre-existing problem as you said she was struggling to lift it on the way home. Furthermore, with such a fall, who knows what else she may have strained or tweaked without necessarily showing obviously signs to you. 

Inflammation in the body (after injury) builds and generally peaks at 48-72 hours post injury. This is precisely when you went for another longish hack and she was weak again on the same leg although didn't trip. Nothing was done in the three days between tarmac fall and this hack... no in hand walks, stretches or checking over to ensure stiffness didn't build up or to see if there were new signs of issues elsewhere??

Then nothing for four days and another hack and boom!

When a human has a fall or injury, even a sprained ankle it can take up to 8 weeks to resolve.. yet your horse was back to normal workload in 3 days just when any inflammation will be peaking. 

Personally I think it is even more important to take it slowly and thoroughly with animals.. dogs, cats, horses... because they can't say to you "oh yeah and I also feel a bit stiff in my shoulder" or such like.

Good luck, I hope you get your horse sorted.
		
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Thanks for taking the time to right such a long reply, the mare is on 24  /7. Turnout, with 3 youngsters so they do plenty of hooning around , we have hilly fields so our horses stay pretty exercised , also my daughter took her in 3 10 min hacks to check for lameness and like I said before the vet watched her trot up.... Interesting re time scales for stiffening up...
She's on full rest now until she is seen so time will tell .


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## Devonshire dumpling (5 September 2014)

Tnavas said:



			I would consider having a chiro look at her neck. I've had two TB's that have been trippers despite quality foot care.

Both had a history of physical trauma, one got cast under a fence with legs either side of a post, the other nosedived over a hurdle during jump training.



The first took around 18 months of fortnightly manipulation, 7th cervical was out. Then after crashing with me in similar situation as your daughters pony was manipulated Nader general anaesthetic. 100% sorted.

Second horse required sedation for the first few manipulation so as he would just lift his front feet off the ground and move himself into the direction the chiro was trying to manipulate his neck. It took a year to sort out , but was finally 100%.

One of the things I've done for many years is have the chiro look over any horse immediately after a fall. Sort damage as fast as possible to allow muscles to recover with minimal damage.
		
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I've had a chiro in the last for my dog, but never for my horse so only  massages and physio , thanks I will ask my vet


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## Amymay (5 September 2014)

MDB said:



			Well.. I am a total novice when it comes to horse care, however, I am an expert in rehabilitation of the human variety  so here is my take on it....

Your horse had a really bad fall on the tarmac, and obviously injured (to some degree) a leg which has a pre-existing problem as you said she was struggling to lift it on the way home. Furthermore, with such a fall, who knows what else she may have strained or tweaked without necessarily showing obviously signs to you. 

Inflammation in the body (after injury) builds and generally peaks at 48-72 hours post injury. This is precisely when you went for another longish hack and she was weak again on the same leg although didn't trip. Nothing was done in the three days between tarmac fall and this hack... no in hand walks, stretches or checking over to ensure stiffness didn't build up or to see if there were new signs of issues elsewhere??

Then nothing for four days and another hack and boom!

When a human has a fall or injury, even a sprained ankle it can take up to 8 weeks to resolve.. yet your horse was back to normal workload in 3 days just when any inflammation will be peaking. 

Personally I think it is even more important to take it slowly and thoroughly with animals.. dogs, cats, horses... because they can't say to you "oh yeah and I also feel a bit stiff in my shoulder" or such like.

Good luck, I hope you get your horse sorted.
		
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Really interesting post MDB.


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## atlantis (5 September 2014)

I haven't properly read the entire post and only have 1 point to contribute. 

I am a Physio (human not animal) but the principles of rehabilitation remain the same. 

That is... If something is hard to do (jumping, work in a Pessoa say) then it's worth doing so that it isn't hard any more. 

HOWEVER (and its a big but, but politely put... Hopefully) QUALITY of movement, not quantity is important. So if you can't do an exercise for whatever reason then it needs to be broken down into manageable chucks, or an easier, suitable, alternative exercise be selected that works the same muscles in the same way but is achievable!! The work can then be built up. 

So if you are a horse that is unable to jump as it is too hard due to incorrect muscles, avoiding jumping altogether will not help build the correct muscles. Instead something like canter poles, progressing to tiny grid work SLOWLY would be worthwhile. If a number of canter poles isn't achievable then start with 1 pole, or lots of walk poles as it is EASIER!!! 

If the Pessoa isn't working for your mare then I would expect the Physio to show you suitable alternatives. Maybe walk in the Pessoa, maybe lunging in walk with the Pessoa with someone leading, working on QUALITY of movent. Always keeping sessions short as weak muscles TIRE easily. These are just suggestions as I am NOT a qualified vet Physio and haven't laid eyes on your mare. 

I'm not sure this is even relevant as you are getting a full work up from your vet now and she has fallen twice and may well have sustained an injury (or an additional one). However I wanted to comment!!! One thing I will add is that if she has a weakness, long hacks will tire her quickly, the stronger muscles and (incorrect) stronger movement patterns will take over and yes, she will be more likely to trip, slip, fall etc. 

I wish you, your lovely mare and daughter all the best. Hope this gets resolved soon.


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## atlantis (5 September 2014)

Oh and totally agree with everything MDB said too!!!


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## Devonshire dumpling (5 September 2014)

atlantis said:



			Oh and totally agree with everything MDB said too!!!
		
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Thanks, and you make perfect sense!
I've just spoken to the vet, not going to do anything with her until we find out she is in good health


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## atlantis (5 September 2014)

Great!!! Then when she does come back into work, do the stuff she finds hard, slowly and progressively. She'll be able to cope with whatever is thrown at her then. She's gorgeous!!! I'm a sucker for a coloured cob (check my avatar)!!


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## Casey76 (5 September 2014)

So just to summarise:

You bought the mare in Feb 2013 @ 6 years old and she'd had 4 foals
During that summer she tripped a lot
She had a season hunting and the tripping improved.
She was rested from May 2014 through July 2014
More recently she completely lost her back end on a hack, then appeared to have trouble fully articulating a hind limb on the way home
she then did 3 hacks of increaseing difficulty, culminating in a rotational fall.

During all of this time she has had persistent left hind limb weakness (not tracking up/squaring off toe) which hasn't resolved while under physio/vet.

To me you have two issues... the hind end problem and the tripping.  Tripping is usually a forelimb/shoulder issue if not attributed to being unfit/fatigued.

When was the saddle last checked?  Pinching behind the withers can exacerbate a tendency to trip.

I find it puzzling that the physio has basically shrugged off the hind limb weakness "it's just her action" there are plenty of exercises which can be done to compensate for it and to improve the weakness.  If she finds it difficult, then yes she's going to object, no one really enjoys physiotherapy, but it is done for a reason.  My mare is very righthanded, so she gets worked on the left side for twice as long as the right to balance things out (so start on the left and finish on the left - the work on the right is a "breather")

BTW, I would get the vet for a comprehensive check up after a rotational fall, just to make sure that there wasn't an unseen injury.


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## SadKen (5 September 2014)

Leaving all the earlier stuff aside, it sounds like a pelvic injury to me.  I knew of one with exactly these troubles. The unusual muscling up at the back end was very apparent in him; it's an adaptation as other muscles step in to do a compensatory job.  He also couldn't lunge effectively on one rein, and couldn't track up with one particularly weak hind limb.  It turned out to be a pelvic fracture sustained while he was a youngster, which had healed as the bones grew but was never right.  He's been a field companion since as he'd never really be able to do the job he was supposed to do.  I really hope this isn't the case for yours OP, but it might be worth asking your vet to consider it as a possibility.  This would also explain why a pessoa is difficult to work in, as it pushes the horse into an action that they simply can't perform with a damaged pelvis.

I should also mention that rotational falls in canter also have effects on the pelvis - the one I had the misfortune to witness was a canter over moorland where the horse put a foot down a rabbit hole, resulting in a rotational fall and a severely broken pelvis.  That one was PTS where he was. 

Bit of a chicken and egg scenario, but could tripping have caused a pelvic injury or possibly the slide on the road exacerbated something that's underlying?

Good luck, I hope you find out what it is.  It would probably be helpful for others if you could pop back and tell us what it was too, when it's resolved.


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## WindyStacks (5 September 2014)

Long-term issues aside - which I'm sure this mare unfortunately has,  it's just bloody "puppy farms" isn't it? Badly bred mare foals 4 others before she's even had a saddle on her back. Meanwhile well-meaning soul buys damaged mare and so the cycle continues...


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## Devonshire dumpling (5 September 2014)

WindyStacks said:



			Long-term issues aside - which I'm sure this mare unfortunately has,  it's just bloody "puppy farms" isn't it? Badly bred mare foals 4 others before she's even had a saddle on her back. Meanwhile well-meaning soul buys damaged mare and so the cycle continues...
		
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We probably should have left her there, but she was miserable, downtrodden and neglected I don't regret buying her,  but yep a sucker!

The mare is to have a few weeks on field rest, to allow any stiffness/bruising etc to run its course, shes completely sound today and content in the field, had a lie down, roll etc and normal.

Then the vet will start at the hooves, he said best to start there as obvious cause could be navicular, apparently they start around this time.. wants xrays and flexion tests and to see her working.
This mare wont be backed until she has a clean bill of health, if she doesnt get a clean bill of health  then we will cross that bridge when we come to it, but her riding career would be over.

Need to start somewhere... feet obvious  place apparently!  Wasn't my regular vet so mine will be back to assess.  He said long toes wouldnt have been a problem as hers are rolled and 6 weeks abolutely fine.... 

Fingers crossed her life is just beginning, bless her, for the record we had a fantastic season last year, loves hunting, really great at her job, not one stumble or trip, perfect manners... we had a blast and if thats what i managed to give her from her previous miserable existence then I don't care, her little pricked ears have been worth it.


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## Devonshire dumpling (5 September 2014)

Casey76 said:



			So just to summarise:

You bought the mare in Feb 2013 @ 6 years old and she'd had 4 foals
During that summer she tripped a lot
She had a season hunting and the tripping improved.
She was rested from May 2014 through July 2014
More recently she completely lost her back end on a hack, then appeared to have trouble fully articulating a hind limb on the way home
she then did 3 hacks of increaseing difficulty, culminating in a rotational fall.

During all of this time she has had persistent left hind limb weakness (not tracking up/squaring off toe) which hasn't resolved while under physio/vet.

To me you have two issues... the hind end problem and the tripping.  Tripping is usually a forelimb/shoulder issue if not attributed to being unfit/fatigued.

When was the saddle last checked?  Pinching behind the withers can exacerbate a tendency to trip.

I find it puzzling that the physio has basically shrugged off the hind limb weakness "it's just her action" there are plenty of exercises which can be done to compensate for it and to improve the weakness.  If she finds it difficult, then yes she's going to object, no one really enjoys physiotherapy, but it is done for a reason.  My mare is very righthanded, so she gets worked on the left side for twice as long as the right to balance things out (so start on the left and finish on the left - the work on the right is a "breather")

BTW, I would get the vet for a comprehensive check up after a rotational fall, just to make sure that there wasn't an unseen injury.
		
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Last saddle fitting was 4 weeks ago,  and every 3 mths before that as shes been changing shape so massively.


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## Pearlsasinger (5 September 2014)

Devonshire dumpling said:



			finds the left rein difficult physio recommended Pessoa work and schooling to work her ample bottom , I haven't used a Pessoa on her, but have lunged her lightly, she was great on right rein but very naughty on left as she finds it hard,
		
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I am so pleased to hear that op is going to have full vet work-up on this mare.

My antennae prickled when I read the mare described as 'naughty' because she finds it physically difficult to work on the left rein.  This may be just forum shorthand for bucks/turns in/stand up on back legs/ et, etc but I usually find that the words used give an insight into the way the poster thinks.
Imo, that is a bit like calling a dyslexic child naughty for reading aloud badly, as if they are doing it wilfully.  I guess that is why the mare has been worked as hard as she has, when personally, I would have had a full work-up months back.

I hope the situation is resolved satisfactorily but wouldn't be at all surprised if this whole situation stems from immature/difficult foaling.


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## Devonshire dumpling (5 September 2014)

I think you misunderstood my speech, I said shes naughty because she finds it hard, therefore showing an understanding that shes not being naughty really, just finding it difficult...
She just doesnt want to work on that rein, she doesnt buck, rear or run off, just bit head shaky, and looks disunited.

I don't think any animal is every naughty, they do not have human emotions, what we call naughty is their way of telling you something is wrong, for example a dog who destroys the house might have separation anxiety and looks forward to the telling off when the owner comes home, even negative attention is good attention.

Horses don't think like humans, they don't behave naughty, they react to a situation....

I think we have flogged this post to death now, will update people in a few weeks.
Thanks


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## Amymay (5 September 2014)

Atlantis - another really interesting post. Thanks.


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## tobiano1984 (5 September 2014)

Hi I haven't read through all the replies so sorry if this has been discussed/eliminated already, but if it was my horse I'd take it barefoot - especially as a cob. Mine are all barefoot (including off the track TBs) and none of them trip, whereas a friend's coloured cob tripped all the time in shoes and then she went barefoot (at age 7) and he is now Mr SureFooted and trots down road hills and across all country. 

Another girl on my yard had a warmblood she bought for £500 because the stud was going to shoot him as he had navicular. She took him barefoot against vet recommendations and 5 years later (only took a short while to get over navicular) he competes at Advanced Medium and has no navicular (in fact was vetted for £35,000 insurance). 

Not everyone's bag but I hunt my cobs barefoot and never had any issues.


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## Tobiano (5 September 2014)

I have read every single post&#8230;.. well done for getting thread back on track!!

DD your mare is gorgeous, well done indeed for rescuing her.  Have no constructive advice at all but just want to say hope she is found not to have any issues and you and your daughter have a lovely future with her.


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## _GG_ (5 September 2014)

Have just seen your pictures...DD, she is beautiful and you have clearly done a wonderful job bringing her on from the state she was in when you got her. There have been some incredibly interesting and insightful posts in these last couple of pages, so hopefully the thread has been useful for you, as I am sure it will be others in time.


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## mischamoo (5 September 2014)

I would stop work on the horse &#8211; clearly sounds as if it&#8217;s struggling with the type of work it&#8217;s in.

Also get a farrier to check the balance of the horses feet as this often causes tripping and review if shoeing can change from 6 to 5 weeks.

The tripping to me (if not a foot problem) sounds like it&#8217;s an balance issue from a young green horse particularly as you mention the horse is heavy on the forehand and therefore clearly unable to work through its backend correctly and effectively, if not foot problems its could be physical issue from the back/sacroalliac/pelvic area and Id be looking for a full lameness work up with the vet and looking in to xrays of the possible areas.


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## LaurenBay (5 September 2014)

Devonshire dumpling said:



			My greenish mare came to me last February , she was 6 prob  just backed, had 4 foals,  I hacked her out and hunted her, she tripped loads , including face planting the Tarmac and grazing her nose, physio said her pelvis was uneven and she needs to build the correct muscles in her rear, her right hind is weak , squared off toe etc.  Season of hunting, rolled toes n good saddle fitting and tripping a thing of the past really.  Foxy is a 14.1 coloured cob and unschooled, finds the left rein difficult physio recommended Pessoa work and schooling to work her ample bottom , I haven't used a Pessoa on her, but have lunged her lightly, she was great on right rein but very naughty on left as she finds it hard, so I am having lessons on her instead and my instructor is helping strengthen her weaknesses .  
foxy can jump s solid jump out hunting , but working in the school over coloured jumps/ poles etc very hard for her and she demolishes them.
She's had the summer off and been brought back into work and to be fair has done an excessive amount of work this last 2 weeks......
She's relatively fit but not super hunting fit yet...went for a 
1)4 mile exercise hack, half trot and half walking, she was super duper fiery and up for it, no tripping.

2)next day an hours lesson in walk and trot, just working in straightness.

3) 2 days later she went for a 9 mile ride and about 4 miles from home she slammed the ground on her side, my daughter was behind and said she watched her back legs slip to the left on a shiny Tarmac and front legs went same way, these things happen, was bad fall but horse slipped up,  trotting short bursts on way home she not lifting her right hind fully for road clearance, call physio.

4) next day bring her out of field, trot her up, everything back to normal, must just have been tightness and that's her weak leg.

5) 3 days later ... 15 mile Funride, no tripping but last mile that leg got tired again 

6) 4 days later ( today) trip to Exmoor so 50 mins in trailer then 15 miles of all down hill in walk, horse  absolutely full of it, long climb up to moor , and mile walking on flat then canter with my 14 yr old daughter on board, flat even ground good going, suddenly see horse face plant the ground and up and over in a head stand, miraculously both fine if not a little stunned and confidence a bit rock bottom for mare and daughter .

This kind if mileage is not uncommon for her, she's a fit hunt horse, not overweight , looks like a little rhino, almost muscle bound to look at .... Am going to get physio out to see if she injured herself in first fall, we are assuming she tripped today but daughter unsure as was so fast, will get vet too.

This mare has fine from severely underweight to fit in 2 yrs, she was in a bad way and obviously still mega unschooled, my gut feeling is she is tired and shoes due next week, so long in the toe and unbalanced.

I guess it could be neurological or other problems and it's all guesswork until the professionals have been buthas anyone had any experience of a horse tripping. In canter and going over like that?

Obviously she's going to be on 24 hr turnout and rested until she's seen.


Thanks for reading !!
		
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My mare had a similar problem. Weak behind and favoured one rein and completely green. 3 months into owning her, she fell over twice when picking her feet out, I had vet out who suspected a neurological problem. Vet quickly changed her mind and told me to get physio. Physio came, told me I could only hack in hand for 3 months to build her up. Then I introduced light schooling and trotting hacks. 3 years on and I now have a Horse who picks up her feet, is in medium work, jumping brilliantly, coming on in her schooling (although still favours 1 rein more, but she is getting there). Like yours, she would play up on one rein as she found it difficult, now she doesn't as finds it easier. My pyhsio gave me some exercises which you might find useful.

Try to do as much hill work as you can, zig zag up and down to make sure your Horse is working evenly.
Raised poles.
Carrot stretches to keep the Horse supple.
Tail pulls to the weaker side.

IMO you are working your Horse to hard. I would be getting a full vet workup, find out what the issue is and then work out a fitness plan for your Horse. 

Good luck.


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## Orangehorse (5 September 2014)

Mine had a chronic tripping problem when young, it got to the stage when I was considering not riding him again after going over his head a few times.  A good way to break my neck, I thought.   It was cured by (yet another) chiropractor, just chance that I happened to get in contact with him after trying about 3 previously who had made no difference, plus lots of other people, all of whom helped a bit, but not a cure.    Stiff in the back.  He also has one weaker hind leg, so I have to watch how I build up his strength and fitness because if I do too much too soon it shows up and he has to be rested to recover.

I think you are doing too much work too.  Agree with the above exercises, I found that shoulder-in helps a lot, but you need a vet/physio to give you a plan of work.


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## Bestdogdash (5 September 2014)

Unbelievable. And depressing.


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## Devonshire dumpling (12 September 2014)

Thought I would give you an update if anyone interested.....
Vet just  been, foxy is  clipping both her back hinds in trot , we are a week post fall, and she's not too great in stretching to her side and between her legs, she's been on full field rest and bute.
His views are when she fell on the road with me originally she hurt her neck, like you or I would if we had a big fall, he also said horses can just completely slip up like that, they have no choice if he the road surface is that terrible!
He did a full flexion test in her and he's sound.
Pelvis is even, muscles are even and well formed, he doesn't agree with the physio saying she's has the wrong muscles he said shes a cob not a Grand Prix dressage horse.... Also doesn't want me working her in a Pessoa and getting her hocks in underneath her as it's not natural for her and totally pointless,  and again if the mare can't run around on  the lunge on her own we can't expect her to do it on the lunge, these things should happen over time.
Her stifles are good.
Ideally he would like her in a horse walker for 20 mins a day for 6 weeks, but as I don't have one, then I can long rein her, or lead her out from my big horse, or my lightweight daughter can ride her out on the buckle for 20  mins  in 
 walk.
Said she doesn't worry him in the  slightest and I shouldn't be disheartened, I said I think I did too much work with her and he disagreed, said she looks fit and the fact she was still very strong and up for it after 15 miles shows her exercise limits were well within her capabilities, obviously was too much with the injury tho!
All in all I am very pleased with her prognosis .


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## el_Snowflakes (12 September 2014)

What a shame. I hope your daughter & the horse are ok OP. My horse is fully sound but she's terrible for slipping on smooth surfaces (more slipping with back end than full on tripping) but it usually happens in walk/trot if she's ambling along & not working properly. Like yours, mine has rolled toes, the farrier keeps her feet quite short & she has natural balance shoes without toe clips. When hacking I always avoid routes with slippery downhill surfaces! I would definitely have the vet have a look to make sure there's nothing more sinister- best wishes


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## julie111 (12 September 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			I'm sorry, but that really is the biggest load of codswallop I have read in a long time.  Your physio recommended you use a pessoa to build her up because she isn't strong enough to jump, yet you are taking her on 15 mile rides?  And, despite your physio saying what you need to do, you have rubbished it, and decided that 'it isn't going to work' and 'you aren't going to put pressure on her like that'?? Yet, you take her on 15 mile hacks knowing her weak leg as you describe it is struggling?  And any vet who says you can do what work you like with her, because it's almost impossible to over work a 7 year old needs striking off I'm afraid.

Absolutely incredible.
		
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I'm afraid I have to agree with this! I have only read a handful of replies but I am astonished at your attitude to the amount of work she is expected to do when she is clearly not sound!


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## Devonshire dumpling (12 September 2014)

Thanks for taking the time to reply, but I have just posted re her check up today!  I am not interested in anyone's opinions other than my vets who has just spent 90 mins with me giving her a comprehensive work up .   
Snowflakes, thanks ... She literally body slammed the road, hinds went in under and we hit the deck hard, I wouldn't have worked her had I realised she was injured, but hey oh we live and learn.
I've only posted again today as I promised some people a progress reports as they were worried.. Thanks


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## Casey76 (12 September 2014)

Devonshire dumpling said:



			Thought I would give you an update if anyone interested.....
Also *doesn't want me* working her in a Pessoa and *getting her hocks in underneath her as it's not natural for her and totally pointless*,
		
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Absolute codswallop.

She will do more damage to herself if allowed to go around trailing her legs in the next county; the whole point of dressage/schooling is so that a horse can bring their hocks underneath themselves so that they can correctly support a rider.

You don't need to lunge in a pessoa, but you do have to school on the lunge to get them to move properly, otherwise all they are doing is running around all strung out, building the wrong muscles.

In a horse which is lazy in its action, it  most definitely should be schooled in how to move correctly, a body wrap or figure 8 can help with proprioception, but in the end it's all about them picking up their feet and getting their hocks underneath themselves.


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## Devonshire dumpling (12 September 2014)

el_Snowflakes said:



			What a shame. I hope your daughter & the horse are ok OP. My horse is fully sound but she's terrible for slipping on smooth surfaces (more slipping with back end than full on tripping) but it usually happens in walk/trot if she's ambling along & not working properly. Like yours, mine has rolled toes, the farrier keeps her feet quite short & she has natural balance shoes without toe clips. When hacking I always avoid routes with slippery downhill surfaces! I would definitely have the vet have a look to make sure there's nothing more sinister- best wishes

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Casey76 said:



			Absolute codswallop.

She will do more damage to herself if allowed to go around trailing her legs in the next county; the whole point of dressage/schooling is so that a horse can bring their hocks underneath themselves so that they can correctly support a rider.

You don't need to lunge in a pessoa, but you do have to school on the lunge to get them to move properly, otherwise all they are doing is running around all strung out, building the wrong muscles.

In a horse which is lazy in its action, it  most definitely should be schooled in how to move correctly, a body wrap or figure 8 can help with proprioception, but in the end it's all about them picking up their feet and getting their hocks underneath themselves.
		
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Thankyou for taking the time to reply casey


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## Pearlsasinger (12 September 2014)

Thanks for the update.

I thought you were very pleased previously that your vet and physio were working together.  I'd be tempted to get a 2nd opinion as these 2 now seem to be diametrically opposed to each other.

I hope the horse is ok.  How is daughter?


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## Devonshire dumpling (12 September 2014)

Pearlsasinger said:



			Thanks for the update.

I thought you were very pleased previously that your vet and physio were working together.  I'd be tempted to get a 2nd opinion as these 2 now seem to be diametrically opposed to each other.

I hope the horse is ok.  How is daughter?
		
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Thanks Pearl, I am very happy with my vet, always have been happy with him, he's a great horse vet and used by many top riders, I am just a lil hunter, but he has all the time in he the world for you and is very thorough.  Daughter is absolutely fine thanks.  I was so scared when he was doing his tests, and couodnt even breathe when I was trotting her up, she has a high action anyway, being welshy x, it's sad seeing her a bit bashed up, she can have all the time in the world she's very special .


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## Pigeon (12 September 2014)

I know sometimes hunters do not get schooled. At all. So I don't find this hugely surprising!! I agree, vet, pronto - but it could easily be general stiffness, in which case you need to be stricter about the physio, pessoa, and gradual strengthening. Just a thought? Does your saddle fit?


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## Devonshire dumpling (12 September 2014)

Pigeon said:



			I know sometimes hunters do not get schooled. At all. So I don't find this hugely surprising!! I agree, vet, pronto - but it could easily be general stiffness, in which case you need to be stricter about the physio, pessoa, and gradual strengthening. Just a thought? Does your saddle fit?
		
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Hi pigeon, see my post on previous page, this was just a post vet update .....
Yes she has it reflocked / adjusted every 3 mths as she has changed so much, altho we have moved on from thorowgood to leather, so hopefully I have my forever saddle now


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## Moomin1 (12 September 2014)

Devonshire dumpling said:



			Thanks Pearl, I am very happy with my vet, always have been happy with him, he's a great horse vet and used by many top riders, I am just a lil hunter, but he has all the time in he the world for you and is very thorough.  Daughter is absolutely fine thanks.  I was so scared when he was doing his tests, and couodnt even breathe when I was trotting her up, she has a high action anyway, being welshy x, it's sad seeing her a bit bashed up, she can have all the time in the world she's very special .
		
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So the very good vet and very good physio, who agreed that she was muscularly under developed, are now disagreeing vastly? How confusing. And the very reputable vet also recommended this physio in the first place? Sounds borderline negligent to me.


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## Devonshire dumpling (12 September 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			So the very good vet and very good physio, who agreed that she was muscularly under developed, are now disagreeing vastly? How confusing. And the very reputable vet also recommended this physio in the first place? Sounds borderline negligent to me.
		
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Thanks moomin for taking the time to reply.  The mare was tiny when I had her.


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## EstherYoung (13 September 2014)

Thanks for the update. So basically she's given herself a bit of a bash and needs time? 

TBH I know people swear by pessoas but IMO long reining can get them working just as well, and it means you have more control and instant flexibility over how you're asking her to go, rather than being reliant on a gadget.


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## Devonshire dumpling (13 September 2014)

Yes Esther , he said in his opinion she is bashed up, she's passed a flexion test, and numerous spins on each leg, and he find lots of stretches in her.... 
When she first came to me she was uneven in her pelvis in trot ( not lame ) that's why physio came then  and then came regularily, but after 2 sessions she was even and never been uneven since then. Also she had a bigger shoulder muscle.
His evaluation of her yesterday was a horse in what he called fit strong condition, with even muscle tone, he said her bum muscles were not in the wrong place at all, these cobs are designed to have wonderful trots not  a big round canter.
Said for the next 6 weeks she needs walking out either with less than 7 stone or long rein, on the buckle, don't ask anything of her at all.   
He will give her a full work up in 6 weeks and then I can get back to schooling her, and if I did lunge her then build up to it over a long time.  She needs to learn to carry herself first before you put her in a Pessoa ( which he's not a fan of )
Anyhow I am pleased my lil cob passed his work up and like I said was just updating a few people, may have been better to pm them lol


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## siennamum (13 September 2014)

Great news. I must say I am no fan of the pessoa. Sounds like some time in the field would be as beneficial as anything. 

At least you have some nice hills to work up & down also. My old mare is also no dressage horse (although she will score 70% + & is nicely schooled) I don't expect her to be uber engaged & uphill - she's not built for it. I suspect that is what your vet was meaning. a bit of steady work, a bit of hill work and you'll have your nice cob back.


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## Devonshire dumpling (13 September 2014)

Yes sienna, spot in.
He's reassured me somewhat!
Hills not a great idea just yet, and she will remain in the flat paddock , that's two sick bays we have now ( old tb with abscess ) never rains but it pours!
On the upside he left me a huge tub of immune boost supplement for my sarcoid youngster to trial for free


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## Donnie Darco (13 September 2014)

Excellent news DD - do please keep us updated as you say the vet has to come back out and review in 6 weeks

Horses eh? Who'd have 'em?


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## Devonshire dumpling (13 September 2014)

Will do Donnie, was pitiful seeing her clipping both hinds in trot yesterday, even vet gave her a bowl of grub as a reward after her stretches think she has us all by our heart strings!


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## Amymay (13 September 2014)

Good update.

Invest in a good pair of brushing boots for behind.


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## Devonshire dumpling (13 September 2014)

amymay said:



			Good update.

Invest in a good pair of brushing boots for behind.
		
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That's a good idea Amy !


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## Username1 (13 September 2014)

First thing that jumps to mind is that she could be a wobblers, they find it hard on the lunge


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## Devonshire dumpling (13 September 2014)

Username1 said:



			First thing that jumps to mind is that she could be a wobblers, they find it hard on the lunge
		
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Thanks username1 .... But it's perfectly normal for any green horse to be one sided .
Also vet had a thorough exam and asked re canter leads etc, so he ruled  that out


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## Devonshire dumpling (13 September 2014)

Just taken her for a mile longreining, so thrilled, she was angelic, but not only angelic she looked like a racehorse, stomping around very fizzy, was quite a handful


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