# symptoms for anyone whos horse has had ulcers, ks or hormone....



## amandaco2 (4 October 2017)

Anyone who's had a horse with these issues-

No pattern in terms of cyclical behavior
Horse rears a lot in field, including looking almost like mounting other horses
Starting to become very upset /aggressive with saddle and picking out feet and feeding bucket feed.
Had always been a bit snappy since had her (1yr) but over past week become very angry, muzzle permanently wrinkled up.
Used to rear inhand but behaviour has disappeared since march.

Horse had check up pre backing in spring - scanned ovaries, normal, mare was in season at the time of scan. Had teeth checked, trotted up and general mot.

Horse did drop weight over last winter, nothing serious, put it on easily.
Been wormed regularly, last with equimax, promax before that.

Mot from vet in August, all well.horse been backed and going out in horsebox with companion for little trips out.

Backing unremarkable, started canter work, some signs of tension at first in canter if not in light seat. (tail swishing).

Sensitive, will put leg out if my leg goes behind girth. I was doing turn on forehand to get her accepting a leg there, which was going very well.

Used to be quite snappy about feeding bug this stopped after a few weeks of gentle handling, this has started again but much worse  (biting at u, moving to kick) in last week.

No sore areas on body, fine to brush...possibly a bit unsettled around flanks.

Saddle fit checked 3 months ago, still looks fine.

Horse is in overly good condition, very boisterous and lively, always playing in field with other four horses.
Has put weight on but I have had to open up field due to wet ground so they moved onto more grazing (and no hay) about 5 weeks ago, gradually.

Bucket feed is pure fibre mix, although they ran out so I had to buy pure easy instead about 7 weeks ago...they only get a small scoop plus salt.

Out 24/7.

Ridden v lightly 5-6 x week.mostly hacking.

Horse is going to vet for ulcer scope, ovary re scan and possibly back xray.


Anyone had horse with similar similar symptoms??


----------



## amandaco2 (4 October 2017)

She starts to bite at u and charge if you have the saddle or if its on her back, its very aggressive looking behaviour.
Similar behaviour starting with feed bucket now too.
No problems noticed with other horses, she's the bottom of pecking order in field.
She can go from angel loving being scratched to charging and biting at you in a split moment and it appears unpredictable ( except for if the saddle or feed is involved) 
She will display this in stable or tied up outside or in field loose.
Times other than saddle/feed often include picking out her feet but she's happy to have legs brushed.

I want the vet to check her carefully so I'm kinda asking for anyone with similar horses to share experiences so I can make sure she gets a really thorough check.....


----------



## whiteflower (5 October 2017)

I've had one with suspected ulcers display some but not all of those symptoms. The problem is that pain in any area can cause those sort of reactions so it's a difficult one. Some of it could also be behavioural but if she used to be ok and now isn't my guess would be pain somewhere. Hopefully the vet can shed some more light on things, it's so frustrating when they are showing those sort of behaviours and finding the issue can be like looking for a needle in a haystack ! Where do you start. Hopefully on seeing her your vet can help you to look at the most likely first. Good luck


----------



## amandaco2 (5 October 2017)

thanks, I cannot shake the idea something is bothered her for a while and did debate ulcer scope in spring...but her behaviour improved and the vet wasn't concerned about ulcers at that point nor in august...
the dramatic deterioration in her recently surely points to something physical...?


----------



## Dancing_Diva (5 October 2017)

Ive had problems with my 8yr old mare. Became aggressive to touch round the girth area, flanks and stifles. This then progressed to even trying to stroke her neck shed go to attack me mouth open, snapping teeth, hind legs the works! Once youd got a saddle on her and on board she was fine, bucks when asked for a canter but otherwise nothing wrong under saddle. 

We scanned ovaries, fine. Did a trail of regumate, also scoped for ulcers. Did some abdomal scans, trots up sound etc... ran full bloods and shes had two full clinical assessments by two different vets. 

She was found to have grade 1 ulcers which three different vets didnt think was the cause of my problems. They also concluded that the ulcers was a secendry cause by something else going on. As of yet we still dont know what! She was and is still fine if I brush her over with a brush and pick out feet (altho will kick out when she first lifts hinds!) Ive owned my pony since 5 months so this change is not right and totally out of character. 

My mare went a few months of back to normal. Until recently shes turned dreadful again to touch anywhere! There is deffiently something wrong with my pony, my chiropractor agrees with me but cannot tell me what herself! The vets suggested I either full body bone scan (at just shy of £2000 and no insurance I cannot justify this right now!) or turn her away with minimal touch for six months. 

Ive currenlt gone with turning her away, the only handling she gets is lead into a stable and turned out again. If shes no different come new year then Ill have full lameness work up done (altho sound) and look into X-rays of hind legs, quarters and back! 

I hope you have more luck in finding the cause of your mares problems. Times like this it would make it so much easier if they could speak!


----------



## Pearlsasinger (5 October 2017)

amandaco2 said:



			thanks, I cannot shake the idea something is bothered her for a while and did debate ulcer scope in spring...but her behaviour improved and the vet wasn't concerned about ulcers at that point nor in august...
the dramatic deterioration in her recently surely points to something physical...?
		
Click to expand...

I think you should go with your gut feeling!  We haven't had either KS or ulcers diagnosed BUT we have been suspicious that our Appaloosa mare, who is in her 20s has Cushings, for well over a year now.  She has had the ACTH test 3 times and each one has come back negative. A couple of weeks ago, although still negative, her level had gone up, so, rather than wait another 6 months, we asked the vet to test TRH - that result came back 8 TIMES higher than it should be!  Needless to say, she is now on Prascend and so far all is going well and it seems to be having an effect on her symptoms already.
Have you considered thermal imaging to try to pinpoint where she is hurting?


----------



## amandaco2 (5 October 2017)

I've gone straight for full vet work up for her. 
I need a diagnosis, I hope I get one, I hate when its all inconclusive!!


----------



## whiteflower (6 October 2017)

Good call, keep us updated, I hope they can give you some answers, the not knowing is terrible. At least one you know what you are dealing with you can formulate a plan


----------



## JEZA (6 October 2017)

I'm sure there's lots of us mare owners following this thread!!
My mare is generally nasty, really snapping, strikes out with front legs when I groom her. Ive done the vet thing, ovaries scanned etc. She's great to ride and lovely with other horses. Ive had her 7 years and always been the same. It's a nightmare.


----------



## amandaco2 (9 October 2017)

grade 2 glandular ulcers found...starting gastro guard...I also want ranitidine for HGU.
waiting for bloods but ovary scan was normal....


----------



## whiteflower (9 October 2017)

Pleased you have something to go on, although I would say with ulcers, as I'm sure you are aware, there is often some underlying cause. Mine which I suspected to have ulcers, went lame 3 months later, as lamness resolved so did the signs of ulcers. At least now you have a starting place and can gauge how she goes after treatment. If the symptoms come back again you know there is more to look at but at least for now you can start the process of getting her more comfortable and see where you are then. Good luck and keep us updated


----------



## amandaco2 (10 October 2017)

yes im really pushing vet to further investigate why she has them as on paper shes very low risk!!! she had a lameness exam which was fine...I don't know if she should have pushed for KS investigation  ovaries normal, just hoping something shows on bloods really....


----------



## Dancing_Diva (11 October 2017)

Following with interest your mares investigations and eventually diagnosis. Sounds like your currently in exactly the same place I currently am with my pony after having pretty much same issues and investigations done so far.


----------



## amandaco2 (11 October 2017)

Bloods normal.
I'm starting gastroguard but vet wont do rx for ranitidine...which I want. Her behaviour around saddle/stable is pretty bad and grade 2 ulcers I'm not convinced thats all thats going on...vet doesn't seem worried about hind gut ulcers.....
No advice given re pro biotics/gi support during gg either which I'm unhappy about!!


----------



## whiteflower (11 October 2017)

Doesn't sound ideal. Is this at at referral vets of just your own vet ? Will they not even do the succeed test for the hind gut ? At least that would give you an indication although I have my reservations how accurate it is. 
Will be interesting to see what happens when the course of gastroguard finishes. Mine had ulcers and which appeared to reoccur (not scoped but agreed likely by vet on symptoms) and went lame 3 months later with imbalances in the foot. My guess would be it was pain and body soreness before he actually went lame that caused the ulcers. Now treated and sound, ulcer type symptoms have gone. May be coincidence but.... I hope you get to the bottom of what's going on


----------



## Equi (11 October 2017)

Sounds like how my friends loan gelding got on for a while. To put it simply, he just did not like her. He got a new owner, but stayed at the same yard and he became a total lamb when my friend left the yard! My own horse was also loaned by the same girl and he too changed when she left. There is nothing bad about her in the way she treats them, shes just very very marmite with both horses and humans, you either like her or you do not lol her pony adores her, and its standoffish with most other people. 

NOT saying this is whats happening to your horse..but just sharing


----------



## amandaco2 (11 October 2017)

No usual vet who isn't worried about hind gut ulcers at all....
I've bought gastri aid for her.
I'm bringing her in for hay and feeding it in field.
She looks a lot more relaxed...no biting in stable today, big improvement as she was rearing in there last week.


----------



## amandaco2 (11 October 2017)

She had soundness work up and she was sound at the time...i am taking her shoes off anyway, so if it was pain due to shoes (she's only been shod for a few months) that should resolve....
I suppose my concern is we may resolve the ulcers but why have they occurred?particularly as they are glandular.....


----------



## AnShanDan (12 October 2017)

amandaco2 said:



			She had soundness work up and she was sound at the time...i am taking her shoes off anyway, so if it was pain due to shoes (she's only been shod for a few months) that should resolve....
I suppose my concern is we may resolve the ulcers but why have they occurred?particularly as they are glandular.....
		
Click to expand...

If ulcers are glandular normal practice is to use omeprazole plus sucralfate for a month.  Ome. alone will not normally heal that type of ulcer, certainly not in the shorter term.


----------



## amandaco2 (13 October 2017)

AnShanDan said:



			If ulcers are glandular normal practice is to use omeprazole plus sucralfate for a month.  Ome. alone will not normally heal that type of ulcer, certainly not in the shorter term.
		
Click to expand...

I have no faith in vets...looking to swap practice.....
Is sucralfate used in certain grades or any glandular?


----------



## amandaco2 (13 October 2017)

AnShanDan said:



			If ulcers are glandular normal practice is to use omeprazole plus sucralfate for a month.  Ome. alone will not normally heal that type of ulcer, certainly not in the shorter term.
		
Click to expand...

I have no faith in vets...looking to swap practice.....
Is sucralfate used in certain grades or any glandular?


----------



## AnShanDan (13 October 2017)

Think I've linked this page before, but it gives a very short overview from a vet that specialises in ulcers. Sucralfate is cheap too.

http://www.bwequinevets.co.uk/187/equine-gastric-ulcers-explained-specialist/


----------



## ellie_e (13 October 2017)

I buy my Ranatidine from Ebay (150mg tablets), shes been treated with GG for grade 4 ulcers. I also REALLY rate Science Supplements Gastrokind, ive tried alot of supplements and this has been the best.


----------



## Notimetoride (6 November 2017)

Mine has recurring ulcers.   Cause seems to be stress, but so we have to really pussy foot around her now!  She absolutely cannot ever be left out alone and must be kept as quiet as possible. Bit tricky as she competes. The cause of the ulcers isn't always physical -  it can be management (eg not feeding the right ulcer friendly diet, not feeding chaff before riding etc etc)  or it can be emotional.  it's jolly hard work to manage though


----------



## amandaco2 (7 November 2017)

shes getting re scoped next week...so we shall see. shes definitely much better to handle!


----------



## amandaco2 (10 February 2018)

she scoped clear. gg reduced down v slowly. I kept on ranitidine for 3 weeks after


----------

