# Can/Do Dog Thieves Remove Chips



## Smitty (16 January 2011)

As the title really.  Spoke to a lady today whose lurcher is missing.  She has heard 'rumours' that it is possible for the less honest members of our society to remove microchips (and I'm not talking vets here).

Horrified, as I had my terrier pinched and am hoping that at some point his chip will be picked up if anybody ever bothers to scan him, I googled this and one post on a forum (forget which one) seemed to think it common knowledge that a knowing thief could merely whip one out with a razor blade in a few minutes.  OK, the dog would be mutilated to a degree, but for workers such as lurchers, terriers, spaniels etc, would this matter?

I so hope you will all tell me you have never heard such c**p in your lives, but with dog theft surely on the increase I am sure there must be a way around the identity thing.  After all, they will happily cut an ear with a tatoo off a live dog without too much worry about the discomfort to the animal.


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## ladyt25 (16 January 2011)

I am sure 'technically' it is possible BUT it'd be bloody tricky as they'd have to locate exactly where it was and in doing this it would leave a large wound and how would they sort that then? Would be a hell of a lot of effort to go to wouldn't it.


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## littlemisslauren (16 January 2011)

I have heard this and I really dont know if there is any truth in it!

My old Charlie terrier has 2 microchips. One where it should be and the first one took itself off for a wander.... So I'm not sure how easy they would be to find in some dogs?


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## CAYLA (16 January 2011)

This  ^^^^ it is of course possibly, but they are not easy to find, it is not as easy is slicing and pulling it out straight off, a scanner is the best way to locate, even though u may beabel to feel it and trying to cut a dog with a blade unsedated and rummaging around a fair bit of tissue and is going to result in a very wriggly/squealing dog.

I would think it more likely the dog has just never been lost again in order to be scaned, as for instance if someone kept your dog, aslong as they did not lose it, then there is little need for it ever to be scanned, also if they sold it on again keeping it away from a scanner or even if scanned it would have to be known the dog was stolen.

Hope that makes sense.


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## TheBlackMoth (16 January 2011)

They could move my female JRT's quite easily as it's moved and is on the side of her leg and is easily located.  You can actually see the shape of it and pinch it.  However, I have no idea where the male JRT's is.


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## CAYLA (16 January 2011)

TheBlackMoth said:



			They could move my female JRT's quite easily as it's moved and is on the side of her leg and is easily located.  You can actually see the shape of it and pinch it.  However, I have no idea where the male JRT's is.
		
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Yep, this would be the easiest type to remove the ones that migrate to very visible places.


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## lq22 (16 January 2011)

I would suspect that unless the thief was targetting a particular breed/dog they woudn't go to the trouble of removing. As said before the chips are injected deep into the tissue (provided they don't migrate) and are about the size of a piece of chewing gum so not the easiest thing to locate. The resulting wound would also be unsightly and wouldn't make the dog easy to 'move on' I would imagine.


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## Bettyboo222 (16 January 2011)

I have distinct memory of an abandoned dog with horrible injuries to the back of her neck, the vet said that they think someone was trying to remove her micro-chip however they hadn't and the dog made a full recovery and was returned to her owner


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## competitiondiva (16 January 2011)

lq22 said:



			I would suspect that unless the thief was targetting a particular breed/dog they woudn't go to the trouble of removing. As said before the chips are injected deep into the tissue (provided they don't migrate) and are about the size of a piece of chewing gum so not the easiest thing to locate. The resulting wound would also be unsightly and wouldn't make the dog easy to 'move on' I would imagine.
		
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Actually they are the size of a grain of rice!! Unless your chewing gum is that small!!!  So yes exact removal would not be easy by any means, unless as said the chip has migrated to another place.  When my cats chip migrated to her armpit, it was very easy to feel, we did have it removed by a vet under aneasthetic as it could have caused her discomfort, and a new chip inserted in the proper place which has stayed put and cannot be felt.  To remove one in a wide awake dog would not be easy by any stretch of the imagination. 

I do wonder were these stories have come from? I doubt there are many microchipped dogs that have been stolen and turned up at a later date without a chip???


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## CorvusCorax (16 January 2011)

I've done ID checks and unless you have a scanner handy you'd never guess where some of them end up!

You can also have a DNA test/sample taken for added security as well as tattooing/microchipping.


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## Smitty (17 January 2011)

Thanks for all your replies.  Am off to see horse now and then back home to wait in all day for his new T/O rug to be redelivered(!!) so fully intend to Google again and find the post talking about removing chips with a razor blade.


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## KarynK (17 January 2011)

In horses migration is rarer as the chip is put into a large muscle mass but not in other companion animals so migration is common one of mine is currently moving freely under the skin on the side of his neck.  

But if thieves are determined they could remove a chip, scanners are not expensive and these people often have access to sedative drugs like ACP and you can buy things like Ketamine on the illicit drugs market, so I would never say never if they were determined and the profit high enough.  

Like Cayla says though the trouble is no one scans, if vets did it before treatment far more stolen animals would be found.


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## Luci07 (17 January 2011)

My vet very strongly recommended that I did NOT put "microchipped" on any of my dogs collar info because they had seen the damage that thieves attempting to extract the chip had done. 

My vet always checks that my dogs chips are still in place whenever they go in anyway and both are still where they should be!


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## Smitty (17 January 2011)

Luci07 said:



			My vet very strongly recommended that I did NOT put "microchipped" on any of my dogs collar info because they had seen the damage that thieves attempting to extract the chip had done. 

My vet always checks that my dogs chips are still in place whenever they go in anyway and both are still where they should be!
		
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I SO hope your vet has a lurid imagination, but sadly nothing would surprise me.  The trouble is there is money to be made out of dog theft, and I suspect the sort of people that are willing to steal a lurcher from a dogs home as in the case of Bath Dogs Home last year (3 + a patterdale  and I am not saying their chips have been removed, just the lengths the unscrupulous will go to) are not going to be squeamish as to the animal's welfare if they try and remove a chip.  Nor do I think that people obtaining a dog to work (lurcher/spaniel/terrier) from these sources are likely to be worried by a blemish caused by the chip being extracted.  BettyBoo has posted that she has seen a dog where this was attempted.

I Googled the post I was reading yesterday.  It is on the Scottish-Deerhound website on a thread called Microchips and somebody has posted these days those making a lot of money out of stealing dogs to order will simply buy a scanner and remove the chip, if its easily felt it is easily flicked out with a razor by a practiced hand.  I do wonder what the reality of this is, but if you can feel the chip, why do you need a scanner?

Cayla:  Thank you for your comments.  I suspect my terrier will never get near a scanner (if he is still alive).  I did inform the chip company when he went missing, so hopefully he would be traced back to me.  I put him on Doglost and as a lot of people do, said he was chipped.  Again, I would not be surprised if dog thieves check the dogs on these sites (I have been told that a lot of travellers do) and I wonder just how much information you should give out.


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## Luci07 (17 January 2011)

No my vet is pretty pragmatic, but I am VERY sorry that I hadn't read or picked up on the fact that your dog is lost. I would not have passed that information on as it just more worry for you.  However, I actively chose to have both mine chipped because it really really does increase the chances of them being returned if picked up by a rescue or pound. Not infalliable but helps.

I really hope you get your dog back. Definately worth chasing your local pounds and wardens as dogs often do get overlooked.. Good luck


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## ChesnutsRoasting (17 January 2011)

I have heard of this in lurcher folklore.  My family and I have been involved with lurchers/hounds many years and have known of quite a few dogs that have been stolen by traveller types.  I have never heard of any of them, once recovered, having had their microchips removed or even attempted to be removed.  I do believe though that some knappers have a mobile scan to check dogs and if a chip is found the dog is subsequently dumped. Microchipping is not a fail safe method of dog indentification and retrievel but it can still act as deterrrant.


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## Smitty (18 January 2011)

Luci07:  Bless you for your concern, but really did want people's views on this as a lady near to me had her very good looking lurcher bitch stolen last week, and she had heard that travellers sometimes remove the chips.

Re my dog who went missing in May, he is not forgotten by either the DW or the pounds around here, but as he vanished by a big lorry park he could be anywhere and my big fear for him is that he was taken as a 'bait dog', but that could be another thread   I still hope his chip will bring me news of him, not that I think he will ever get near a scanner!

Blazingsaddles:  Thank you for that, another interesting point.


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## PerdixPerdix (18 January 2011)

okay, so Im going to sound like a very bad person for this, but i have actually witnessed the location and removal of a chip and it was literally as easy as 1.2.3 (it wasnt a stolen dog by any means, well simply the dog was ''stolen'' and chipped and then got ill when its rightful owners took it back.. very long and complicated story)

Dog theives have it down to a T, i dont know why some people refute the claim. its a business for them and to me a chip is easy peasy to find, even with migration, as it often migrates down the shoulder and forelegs which have very little substance to conceal it. 

but chip removal is a very standard practice in professional dog theft rings, and they will not give two ****s wether the dog is chipped or not, especially when you think alot of the valuable dogs, such as gundogs and high value breeds will have been routinely chipped with a docking or KC registration.

hope you get your dog back. unfortunately lurchers and terriers are a 'you know whos' first pick, they are of a greater use and interest and are very easy to move along. a terrierman friend of ours has had his kennels done over 3 times in the last few years, with two week old litters being taken once, he located one of his lurchers and his fell terrier (who had both been chipped but lo and behold chips had vanished) and had a right ordeal getting them back, the police even suggested staeling them back himself as they dont really deal with those people!!!

the best thing to do is contact doglost.


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## ChesnutsRoasting (18 January 2011)

I'm not refuting the claim, only have never seen or heard it being done to any of the dogs I've known that have been stolen and then recovered.  But, I and another lurcher owner both had bitches picked  up in different areas within a month and then later dumped in the same spot within an hour of being stolen. I can only surmise, as they are both microchipped the knappers scanned and dumped due to chipping.


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## EAST KENT (18 January 2011)

PerdixPerdix said:



			okay, so Im going to sound like a very bad person for this, but i have actually witnessed the location and removal of a chip and it was literally as easy as 1.2.3 (it wasnt a stolen dog by any means, well simply the dog was ''stolen'' and chipped and then got ill when its rightful owners took it back.. very long and complicated story)

Dog theives have it down to a T, i dont know why some people refute the claim. its a business for them and to me a chip is easy peasy to find, even with migration, as it often migrates down the shoulder and forelegs which have very little substance to conceal it. 

but chip removal is a very standard practice in professional dog theft rings, and they will not give two ****s wether the dog is chipped or not, especially when you think alot of the valuable dogs, such as gundogs and high value breeds will have been routinely chipped with a docking or KC registration.

hope you get your dog back. unfortunately lurchers and terriers are a 'you know whos' first pick, they are of a greater use and interest and are very easy to move along. a terrierman friend of ours has had his kennels done over 3 times in the last few years, with two week old litters being taken once, he located one of his lurchers and his fell terrier (who had both been chipped but lo and behold chips had vanished) and had a right ordeal getting them back, the police even suggested staeling them back himself as they dont really deal with those people!!!

the best thing to do is contact doglost.
		
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Exactly! That is why all mine are Tattooed,in the hope that removing a whole ear just might make a dog unsellable. Eight of mine were stolen some years back ,and the tattoo  got them home;gossip said the suspect thief was well versed in chip removal.


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## Kaylum (18 January 2011)

as above mum's JR chased a cat and was found, eventually ended up in police kennels, had lost her collar and never once was she scanned.  The people that found her rehomed her, mum got her back with an advert in the local paper.  Microchipping is a good idea but as with horses everyone in authority has to use scanners to check.  

I have heard about the chips being removed and the data wiped from them, although this could be rumours.


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## mon (18 January 2011)

our scanner we have for scanning sheep electronic ear tags reads chis in horse and dogs so scanners to read tags available easily enough and our working collie had to have new chip as she caught btween shoulder blades on feeder and lost chip, horrendrous wound but wouldn't know now as coat regrown totally


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## Smitty (19 January 2011)

PerdixPerdix:   Thanks for that, very interesting.   I would not be at all surprised that professional dog theft rings would be well able to remove chips, if money is involved I am sure most things are possible.  
I spoke to the police after they had gone onto a site near Bristol and retrieved quite a few dogs (I got the impression they went for something else but the RSPCA and Doglost were also involved) and was told that often stolen dogs are passed from site to site, in a 'ring' as you mention.  It is I suppose possible that the necessary 'expert' will not be in each location, hence stolen dogs being found complete with their original chip.

I was under the impression that with an ear tatoo, thieves would merely cut off the ear.  Would this be detrminental when passing on a 'working' dog?

My dog is on Doglost, along with all the other terriers, lurchers, working dogs, pedigrees and very few mongrels!! as well as Its Been Nicked (1 terrier (him), 2 lots springers, 2 lots dachs + 1 lurcher), Alfies Lost Dogs, National Pet Register, I could go on but actually can't remember them all.  

East Kent:  Glad to hear yours were recovered.  Think I will be going down the tattoo route despite what I have said above.

Blazing Saddles:  I am sure chip removal happens in only a minority of stolen dogs, hence the large number that are recovered with chips intact and the amount of 'dog' people who have posted on this thread not having come across it.  Glad you got yours back by the way.

Kaylum:  So glad your mum got her JR back.  I think it is not uncommon for chips to be missed and some scanners (the machines) are better than others.

Mon:  Very interesting indeed, although I wonder if on a very short haired dog there would be a visible mark.


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## 2Conker (19 January 2011)

Smitty said:



			As the title really.  Spoke to a lady today whose lurcher is missing.  She has heard 'rumours' that it is possible for the less honest members of our society to remove microchips (and I'm not talking vets here).

Horrified, as I had my terrier pinched and am hoping that at some point his chip will be picked up if anybody ever bothers to scan him, I googled this and one post on a forum (forget which one) seemed to think it common knowledge that a knowing thief could merely whip one out with a razor blade in a few minutes.  OK, the dog would be mutilated to a degree, but for workers such as lurchers, terriers, spaniels etc, would this matter?

I so hope you will all tell me you have never heard such c**p in your lives, but with dog theft surely on the increase I am sure there must be a way around the identity thing.  After all, they will happily cut an ear with a tatoo off a live dog without too much worry about the discomfort to the animal.
		
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Well, the disreputable are said to remove horses chips (poor b...rs) so dont see why that wouldnt extend to dogs.


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## PerdixPerdix (19 January 2011)

Yes Smitty they do circulate the dogs because then its so much harder to locate and keep track.

there are also terrible scams going on. i mentioned this to my friend as i know his dog was stolen and his story is as follows:

Bracken was stolen from his kennel on a sunday night, monday morning was reported stolen, notices pinned up across the county, the next wednesday evening he got a telephone call from a man *bob, saying he had just found a dog that matched brackens description, would he like to see if it was his dog?, mate said yes and they arranged a place/time, *bob didnt turn up, number was no longer in use. two weeks later a new man *bob2 called saying he had bought this dog 'from a man in a pub' and had realised he looked like bracken, told mate that he could come get him.

on arrival at an old scrap yard mate realise the man with what was indeed his dog Bracken (in a very very poor state) was not alone and had 5 other men with him, two of the blokes had massive rotties on chains that were obviously trained to attack. 

luckily mate had not gone alone but had bought his friend with him, The man holding Bracken said he had paid £1000 for him (a small 4 year old cocker spaniel) and wanted mate to reinburse him in order to get Bracken back. he then put Bracken in a pen and had the two rottie blokes gaurd it. 

 luckily mates friend had the initiative to text a few mates to put the words out to the police and within 10 minutes of tense negotiations sirens and 2 police cars showed up. the men scattered and left Bracken so my mate was able to get him back...

Harrowing story isnt it? also completely as it was told to me. my mate did some research and said this type of thing is also not uncommon and the police advised him that in future if anyone makes contact with you R.E a missing or stolen dog take a number and contact the relevant authorities.


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## Smitty (20 January 2011)

PerdixPerdix - That was a dreadful story, very well told may I say as I was reading it with mouth wide open muttering OMG, OMG!  I was there in the scrap yard!!!

I do think it is a timely reminder.  I have read a few posts on Doglost regarding similar, but nowhere near so bad, scenarios.  I think if you do get that "call", your immediate impulse is to rush off and get the dog.  I am pleased that the police are willing to become involved, didn't think they were that concerned.


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