# Info and tips on Welsh section D's



## ChestnutConvert (23 January 2011)

I'm thinking of buying my own horse in the near distant future and have been trawling through breeds working out what's best for me. After years of riding TB types and warmbloods i'd like something a bit saner, lower to the ground and versatile and have been lookng at Welsh Section D's of around 14.2. 
Does anyone have any advice on these, what they are like to own, what you do with them, where to look for one??
Or any horses/large ponies that are similar in what they can do and temperament.


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## fidleyspromise (23 January 2011)

The ones I know aren't all that sane!  
My friend has a 13 yr old, welsh D and he is spooky and flighty.  He's not done a huge amount but he has a nice, bold jump, hacks and has done a couple of pleasure rides.  
The Welsh Ds I've known have had to be constantly reminded of their manners as they are known to be bolshy.  It is a breed that I like, and they are versatile but you need to have a firm hand with them.  

Here's another thread purely on their temperaments:
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=213756


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## ChestnutConvert (23 January 2011)

I don't really mind having to do that, i'm used to bargy horses but at least they won't be towering over me too much!
I think they will give me fun all round though, hack, dressage, fun rides maybe some showing that's the hope anyway.


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## SophieLouBee (23 January 2011)

I had a welsh D who was trueley the quietest horse of all time. You could have put your granny on him.

However, some can be very flighty, and as mishaspey said, need to be reminded of manners. I think a lot of people put them under the 'cob' category, which they are not at all! They very much seem to have there own mind, and if they want to do something, they will.

 welshxarab is a nice cross, as is welshxtb. Also Connemaras, I've not had much to do with them, but I've heard they are quite a sane breed in general?


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## fidleyspromise (23 January 2011)

One friend had one that used to take clients out on hacks.
Again, as long as they're fit, they'll enjoy the fun rides.  I can't imagine you'd have any problems showing/dressage either.  
I agree regarding size, its not so far to fall either   They are definitely fun...


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## ChestnutConvert (23 January 2011)

Well i have one on my 'to look for' list then, it's a start although don't want too many on it or i'll be looking for years!


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## LaurenM (23 January 2011)

Sane is not the word I'd use! Mine is very stubborn and needs to be reminded of his manners alot! 

I wouldn't focus on breed as you are narrowing down your search. You are much better off going for a horse that fulfills your 'want list' in regards to mannerisms rather than breed in my book.


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## ChestnutConvert (23 January 2011)

LaurenM said:



			Sane is not the word I'd use! Mine is very stubborn and needs to be reminded of his manners alot! 

I wouldn't focus on breed as you are narrowing down your search. You are much better off going for a horse that fulfills your 'want list' in regards to mannerisms rather than breed in my book.
		
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Good point i just don't know where to start really, i suppose knowing height and sex is good then go from there really. Seems to be a lot out there now, patience as well i'll have to use that!


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## Superstar (23 January 2011)

Honest - non biased view on my Welsh Cob....I love him to bits, but some points to consider.....

My boy is stunning to look at, black, chunky, plenty of bone, big neck and round bum, leg in each corner type, about 15 hands............but his nickname is 'the Mule..!!'

I have had him since a yearling.... and he can be very stubborn if he doesn't want to do something and will spook if hacking on his own and can sometimes nap if on his own and confronted with something he doesn't like the look of....hacking in company he is better with although has a tendency to get a bit excited and can be a tad strong.....watch those necks and chests..!!

He jumps for fun...Schooling he is great at and trys hard, dressage he does well at, showing is his thing as he has a lot of presence......and thinks its so exciting cantering round in a group.....he deffo knows when he has done well and or won his class...! Little show off....!!

He is very loyal....deffo a one person horse and gets grumpy with people he doesn't know, and a bit naughty/angry if he gets to many different people riding him....

Field wise he is high up in the herd...id say in the top 2 Alpha horses, he doesn't take any cr*p from the others and they will all move out the way of the gate when I turn him out/bring in.

From the floor he can be strong to handle if he gets the wind up his tail and can be bargy...its there sheer size and body mass they can get pretty big in weight and muscle....that makes them stronger then a large horse...it is deffo a natural tendensy ( E.G I could never leave the stable door ajar...or open with a chain across) but if you establish the ground rules from the start you should be ok......not one for the faint hearted or owners that want the softly softly approach....if i was like this with him he would honestly walk all over me.....and a 600kg Welsh built like a brick... is to dangerous to walk all over you!!

I do have to give him reminder from time to time if he over steps the line, but seen as he is 7 now he isn't as bad as he used to be when he was younger etc.... 

He is fairly safe to ride and a lot of fun....however not a novice ride as can be quirky and deffo not a first horse type due to the way he can be strong on the floor.....

Hope this helps and good Luck with your choice.....

XX


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## native eventer (23 January 2011)

Consider connemaras too. They re great similiar to welsh Ds, good native types!! Hardy and tough, I have owned a Welsh D who took me upto novice level eventing as well as carriage driving, he was the ultimate horse but not easy, tense, spooky and sharp at times!! The connemara I have currently is 3 1/2 sane but not boring and incredibly sweet and easy to do, not too sharp but intelligent!!! A good native is worth its weight in gold!!


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## Aoibhin (23 January 2011)

all the D's i have had the pleasure of riding/driving/owning i havent had one yet that was totally sane.
thye are huge powerhouses & as smart as they come & as soon as they work this combo out they will push the boundrys.


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## SavingGrace (23 January 2011)

My girl is registered partbred.... she is stunning.... beautiful.... sturdy.... excellent manners....  stubborn.... opinionated... mule like.... (but I wouldn't be without)

When she is good she is very very good but when she is bad she can be a complete horror


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## Superstar (23 January 2011)

native eventer said:



			Consider connemaras too. They re great similiar to welsh Ds, good native types!! Hardy and tough, I have owned a Welsh D who took me upto novice level eventing as well as carriage driving, he was the ultimate horse but not easy, tense, spooky and sharp at times!! The connemara I have currently is 3 1/2 sane but not boring and incredibly sweet and easy to do, not too sharp but intelligent!!! A good native is worth its weight in gold!!
		
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Oooooh yeah - i forgot very intelligent....be prepared to have questions asked..!!...lol...on a positive to that they are very trainable and quick learners.......but bad if you let them learn a bad habit...:-(... x


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## soulfull (23 January 2011)

I have had several WC and a WCXTB   and they are not an easy breed!!!!

They are often far too smart for their owners, fast thinkers, stubborn as hell!  cheeky, down right cocky at times.  While they may not be big in height their strength is incredible.
There is no way to make a WC do something he/she decides he definitely isn't doing.

HOWEVER  I do love them,  once they trust and respect you they are loyal and loving.

Many people do not realise how difficult they can be.  Especially age 6 !!!!!!! a true nightmare 

AS others have said they do need keeping in place (as much for their mental security as anything),  daft things that you would probably allow another sort to do,  ie  my young WB will get away with stepping slightly into my space,  but you allow a WC to do it and before you know it he has you backing out of his space.  Very clever tactics they have

Keep the boundaries fixed so they know where they stand and if they respect the leadership you have a partnership like no other.

If leadership is lacking they will often panic and become a handful very quickly, trying to become leader themselves

Like I said though  get the right partnership and you will find something extremely special


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## competitiondiva (23 January 2011)

I have a Sec D partbred who is THE MOST amazing horse, he'll be 2 years old this year and defys logic of youngsters!!  I've never met a youngster that is so easy to deal with and so switched on, I'm sure he's just saving it all for when I break him in (if he's with me that long, unfortunately I can't keep him as he was only ever bought as a companion) If I didn't have 2 other horses, I'd be seriously tempted to jack in my ambition to do dressage to a high level and keep him!!!  He is SUCH a pleasure.  He's cheeky don't get me wrong, I wouldn't say he was going to be a dope on a rope, but so trustworthy and safe!!!  He has totally changed my ideas of welshies!!!!.............


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## welsh_monster (23 January 2011)

Sorry to hijack post a little but Soulful, you say especially at 6! 

Is this a common thing? My girlie has always been a typical welsh d in the intelligent, give her an inch, takes a mile kind of attitude, but last year (she turned 6 in June) she was an angel for the first half of the year, the second half she was threatened with pedigree chum more than once or twice!

But to OP as many people have said the majority I've met as lovely when they're good, can be quite a handful when throwing a tantrum! My mare has verged on dangerous when in a bad mood several times!! But I think she's one of few who are that bad. I'm biased obviously but I blame it on her mother rejecting her as a foal!


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## misterjinglejay (23 January 2011)

Mister Jay, a gorgeous palomino sec D, whom I love to bits, is a dangerous nutter. 

He's put my OH, a very experienced rider, in AandE, and one of my instructers, who evented to quite a high level, refused to ride him eeekkk!

Bless his little cotton socks!


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## Todmiester (23 January 2011)

Not all Ds are hot headed or stubborn. Some are polite forward rides with manners to burn who will do anything you ask. I owned such a horse. She showed at county level, did WHP, dressage, evented and did a couple of pleasure rides. They are one of the most versatile breeds about.


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## tobysg (23 January 2011)

'she was threatened with pedigree chum more than once or twice!' 

My mare was threatened with the same and still is sometimes. 

Mine is greedy, bargy, flighty, spooky, very argumentative, bossy,extremely strong, everything is on her terms, extremely over enthusiastic (ie when she see's she's going in a horse box starts jogging on the spot and used to be unholdable and gallop around the car park then be caught and run up the ramp, we did a whole ridden show in various forms of canter because she couldn't contain her excitement and stay in trot or walk, now she understands how to jump a course she likes to charge round at a pace physically too fast to get over the jumps at, letting her off at the field gate is dangerous as she can't wait long enough to get the rope off then bucks in your face before charging around the field in celebration)

However, she also has a super jump, loves to hack, fantastic movement, is good looking, does all RC activities, loves to either put her face in your chest for a real cuddle for ages or her nostril on your face so you are smelling each others breath, extremely playful, always greets me with a whinny, extremely sensitive to my mood ridden and on the ground. 

overall, I think they need boundaries on the ground and are over enthusiastic show offs who think they are god's gift to the horse world and I love them 

as above, I have a very hot headed one and there are lots who aren't.


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## missyme10 (23 January 2011)

I've a 20 month old welsh cob filly. She's very sweet and affectionate but also a hell of a handful.
They are my favourite breed, and in my opinion the most versatile breed around.

They definitely aren't for the faint hearted. I've a gypsey cob also who would be best described as a dope on a rope, but if I handled Lily the same way, I'd be laid in a hospital bed for sure. 
I cannot stress strongly enough like others on the need for firm boundaries, a welsh cob will run right over you if they think for even one second that they are the boss x


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## FanyDuChamp (23 January 2011)

I adore them, learned to ride properly on my old one. BUT he was opinionated, extremely strong, double bit and bridle, and he would still take off with me, intelligent and extremely loyal. They are not, in my opinion, horses for novices (I know you aren't a novice) However get a talented one and they can jump the moon and will give their all to win, they also excel at lower level dressage, just never interested us. My lad was a real competitor who died a little in side if we got beaten. Great hunters as well, he would go all day and could clear a 5 bar gate, usually whether or not I wanted to. They tend to be very honest horses, what you see is what you get. You certainly know what they are thinking, good or bad. Trust can be an issue at first, I would say they are one person horses, so maybe why you don't see so many in riding schools etc. (Though I maybe wrong at it maybe only the riding schools I have been to) 

We have 2 on our yard,both the YO's, 1 a youngster who is stunning and seems to be turning into a really sweet horse, he will be backed and ridden away then sold I think. And a veteran, who stole my heart the minute I saw him. He is 26 (I think) and such a character, but in his younger days was a fantastic eventer. I would have him in a minute. I will never forget the day I was at the yard on my own, he was laying down in the field and looked like he could not get up, the yo had said he sometimes had trouble getting up but she also said he like the attention and sometimes puts it on, so I pretended to leave, hid behind a lorry and watched as he jumped up and cantered off!  Little beggar! But that is what they are like 

I hope you find the right one for you, if you do you will have a friend for life.  We have a Connie as well on the yard, seems a nice lad. Very pretty.
FDC


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## Ladyinred (23 January 2011)

Using the words 'sane' and 'SecD' in the same sentence is an oxymoron. The two are mutually exclusive.

Having said that hey are my favourite breed. They have an awesome intelligence, a wicked sense of humour and will happily be your best friend. They are the Border Collies of the horse world. 

We have two nutters and a youngster who is incredibly laid back and sensible and soaks up learning like a sponge. She is a real joy to own, as are the other two. One, the mare is spooky but very controllable and easy to ride. The other is, errr, special. Very special. Opinionated to an unbelievable degree and we have always believed he would be a very dangerous horse in the wrong hands. We only survive because we humour him.. get into a fight and he wouldn't back down, at 16:1 that would not be good!

If you have patience, confidence and a calm personality and experience then go for it, you will never regret it.


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## sakura (23 January 2011)

I have a welsh sec D x cob, she's as bold as anything I've ever met but she's also the sweetest and most gentle horse I know. She's quite fine though but I really like this crossing, I'm not sure on her cob side but her welsh side has a few good names in it!

I'm always told her love of jumping comes from her welsh side!


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## kelly_s1 (23 January 2011)

Hi,

I had one pure Welsh Section D and i now own a Welsh Section D cross Hackney.

They are the best, very hardy, mine does a bit of everything dressage, jumping, cross country and hacking, I would say better out hacking on his own as he tends to play up more with other horses.

He is a great all rounder with quirks. Was bargy when I first bought him as he has little manners but I have been working on this every day and he improves more and more.

I personally wouldn't have any other breed


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## PucciNPoni (24 January 2011)

I never knew welshies til I moved here (UK) as they aren't very common in the US.  However, as a reputed ancester line to the Morgan horse, which I grew up with, I was intrigued.  I bought one  about 6 years ago and boy, she is amazing:

Poor girly was bounced from one home to another over a year - four times til she landed with me.  I still own her, but last year she went to a very good friend on loan who adores her to bits.  The first year I could have given up on her - she needed manners on the ground, under saddle, and for many other things.  She'd not tie, not stand to be mounted, and would barge over or thru any fence, stable door etc.  I was found on facebook by a former owner who told me they called her "Devil Horse".  Yes, she likes to be a challenge.

She has a huge bold jump (caused huge frustration trying to keep her in to paddocks) and my friend who now has her says this has not changed a bit.  Takes on a 5'6" paddock fence now and again and does it in trot, so she tells me! grrrrr .  She had been seen by several people where I kept her that she jumped a split rail fence from standstill with a heavyweight rug on.  more grrrr.

But so soooo good on a hack - fun and forward (even if she had the tendency to run away from blowing crisp packets). Very trust worthy nannying youngsters while on hacks.  Schooling was never going to be her forte as she was a bit of a train - but cut an impressive picture for the dressage ring nevertheless.

and the other welshies I know?  Each one is cheekier than the next.  Each one is full of fun, mischief, and lovely to the very core.  

They absolutely need a firm, loving hand and must be treated with a bit of respect but never allow them to take the upper hand cos once they do - it's allllll over! LOL   But it's not just people they are this way with - my mare was a huge sooookie to other horses, always wanted to be their pal.  However, if another horse started a fight, my girl was CERTAIN to finish it!


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## cob&onion (24 January 2011)

I have just bought a welsh d yearling, can honestly say hes the most friendliest little chap and so laid back! doing some very early ground work with him whilst hes still only a baby.  Hoping to show him in the summer and as he moves so nicely, a future dressage horse  he is very flashy - he has 4 white socks and a blaze, he was black but i have a suspicion that he will turn dark bay/bay......


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## emmaln (24 January 2011)

I have has my welsh D mare since she was 10 months, she is my second welshy. As others have said they are stubborn beyond belief and very opinionated! Can be spooky and bolshy, my be nice pressure halter is my best friend however they are truly fantastic allrounders, totally honest, what you see is what you get, sensational animals good luck in whatever you choose :-D


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## eahotson (24 January 2011)

You can't goby breeds.They are individuals.I had a Highland.Quiet, ploddy for beginners right? NOOOO sharp, spooky and opininated.Now have a Welsh D.Bolshy strong nutter right? No actually.An absolute sweetheart both on the ground and to ride.Anyones ride but quite talented too.I do think SOME of it is how they are handled/broken as youngsters too.Can be a little bit sensitive sometimes, especially when he doesn't know you.


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## furrycat (24 January 2011)

I've got a 3 yr old Welsh cob filly, I've had her since she was a foal.  She is just so feisty, vibrant and full of life, very affectionate and tactile, stunningly beautiful (and knows it!), huge character and sense of humour, she makes me smile every time I see her but she is also very stroppy and stubborn!
But having had a trakehner before, who was very sharp, my welsh D is not like that at all, if she lights up it is momentarily and then she reverts back to her usual self, whereas my trak needed counselling lol!


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## pottamus (24 January 2011)

I think with Welshies you just need to know what makes them tick, what triggers their behaviour and how best to handle that without it becoming more of an issue. I think like Arabs, they need confirdent, fair and quiet handling to get the best out of them. They are very intelligent creatures and I would say opinionated, rather than stubborn.
My lad is typical...have to be on top of his manners at all times and he is full of character. He can go from calm and daft to a fire breathing monster in seconds but now I know how to handle this our lives are smoother altogether. He is not really a horse you can idle along on out hacking, you have to keep your wits about you or you will be caught out by a spook.
I think they are a brilliant breed if you like larger than life personalities and are prepared to put some work in to build the relationship and understand them when they have their 'moments'...I would not swop mine for the world and would get another Sec D if I ever found myself horseless.


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## brigantia (24 January 2011)

I was a novice when I bought my Welsh Section D PB and in the beginning, we had lots of issues and I wondered if I would have to sell her on to someone more experienced. But I persevered. She's still very opinionated, but once you put the time, commitment, and patience in to establish a bond with an intelligent, opinionated Welshy, they will do anything for you. We've been on long distance bridle rides, horse holidays, beach rides. She is so loving and affectionate and I wouldn't trade her for anything. She actually looks after me when we're out riding together. 

Never a dull moment though!


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## soulfull (24 January 2011)

welsh_monster said:



			Sorry to hijack post a little but Soulful, you say especially at 6! 

Is this a common thing? My girlie has always been a typical welsh d in the intelligent, give her an inch, takes a mile kind of attitude, but last year (she turned 6 in June) she was an angel for the first half of the year, the second half she was threatened with pedigree chum more than once or twice!
		
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Oh she is a late developer then   normally starts the begining of their 6th yr

as for is it common  OH YEAH  I can set my watch by it.  so much so my friend had a mare I chose for her from age 2 she was a little opinionated but quite good really. I put this down to coming from a proper Welsh Stud where they really know how to hanlde them.
She was a doddle to back and ride away etc,  went to shows as good as any Welshie.  Yes she could sometimes be strong or a bit spooky but never actually naughty or proper stroppy. 

  I kept saying 'oh just wait till she is 6'  my friend did not believe me!  Big mistake  first show of her 6th year she bronched so much and put my friend on the floor lol
I got many phone calls that year starting 'I'm going to kill her, or  how the hell do I deal with this?  come and get her I've had enough'   It's all your fault'


Behaviour like this and more continued all yr and stopped almost spot on 1st Jan of her 7th yr.  Last year she had a wonderful foal and is an awesome mom she is 9 now and friend just bought her back into work and she was good as gold

I have had several and all have been exactly the same.  I also personally know of at least 6 or 7 others who have been just the same.  some literally change overnight and others its a bit more gradual 

The good news is keep going, be firm but FAIR  Welshies HATE unfairness, they don't mind genuine mistakes but be unfair with them and they don't forget, that means always keeping the line in the same place so they know where they stand,  If you do that no matter what then once the kevin yr is over they come back to you usually even more trusting and loyal

I have a tremendous amount of love and respect for the breed and would have loved another one but I felt I was not strong enough physically or mentally to deal with another one. I needed something easy as I suffer from RA and past 40  so I got a czech WB  he is so lovely  but sometimes I do miss the intelligence.

Biggest advice to anyone is ALWAYS KEEP THE LINE IN THE SAME PLACE, OTHERWISE THEY SEE YOU AS UNFAIR AND THEY HATE UNFAIRNESS,  IT CONFUSES THEM TO WHO IS THE LEADER   SO THEN THEY TRY TO BE.  Unfortunately that means having eyes in the back of your head,  ie if your standing by them talking to a friend, don't get too distracted  if they do something you would normally correct but you miss it cos your talking,  they don't forget and step a bit more next time.

Often I hear people say suddenly he is doing 'x'  rarely with a Welsh is it suddenly,  they have subtly over time got to this point you just missed the signs (we all do it)

Example  leading one of my WC he would subtly turn his nose about 4 inches away from you,  if you didn't 'check him'  next thing he was GONE, if you checked him  he would walk like a lamb.  If anyone else had to handle him they would say he just took off no warning at all     but I knew different   They were not paying attention!! (even though I had warned them exactly what he would do)

Oh and they have the answer to everything,  good and bad

The very best ones have been either handled by proper Welsh Stud owners, or handled by people who are firm and consistent (usually parents)

you ever wonder why traditionally WC even though smallish  are always shown by men ? ?  


When I write about them  it makes me miss them  !!!!!


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## ChestnutConvert (24 January 2011)

Oh dear.....now i'm lost! I'm not afraid of having to get a horse's trust etc or of laying down the law but then i guess you have to see and try different breeds when looking, if it was as easy as picking a pretty one or quiet one then we wouldn't have half the problems we do.

I will keep options open, look at allk sorts as long as it is safe enough, and avoid the breeds that aren't for first time owners.   Will all be worth it in the end!


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## Tillypup (24 January 2011)

I had a Welsh cob a few years ago and he was wonderful, once I'd got used to going from a 12.2hh pony to him at just under 15hh!!! He was good at almost everything we tried, jumping, showing (which he just LOVED) M&M and ridden hunter classes. My mum did a bit of dressage with him as well. 

He was a soft as you like, a rather sensitive soul really, not at all bolshy, but equally you couldn't push him around. He could be a bit spooky on hacks especially if it was windy. He was forward going and such a fun ride! He was also great around the stable/yard. We had a little old boy farrier do the horses at the time and one time I came back around the corner to check on how he was getting on shoeing Bryn, to find Bryn, dozing leaning on the farrier as he was chatting away doing one of his hooves!!


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## Natch (24 January 2011)

Sarah_horsey said:



			I'm thinking of buying my own horse in the near distant future and have been trawling through breeds working out what's best for me. After years of riding TB types and warmbloods i'd like something a bit *saner*, lower to the ground and versatile and have been lookng at Welsh Section D's of around 14.2. 
Does anyone have any advice on these, what they are like to own, what you do with them, where to look for one??
Or any horses/large ponies that are similar in what they can do and temperament.
		
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*cough* 

In all seriousness, much as I love the breed and would have another in an instant, you might find a sane Welsh D, but there are quite a few "quirky" ones around 

Don't discount connies, highlands, haffys, dales ponies too, they are all able to make 14.2ish and are all versatile.

The welsh D I last rode I did a bit of fun rides, dressage, loads of hacking and schooling with. Didn't jump very much or very big, but that was rider wimpyness and horse injury rather than because the horse couldn't or wouldn't - he'd have loved to! 

The highland I used to ride is now showing at county level and also does a bit of everything, but the highlands I have known (a grand total of 3) are less versatile than the welshes and dales I know, because they don't seem to be built for jumping or dressage.

Conemaras can be a star of everything and the ones I've known are very well mannered and natured. 

I think you're in for a (nice) shock when it comes to pony personnalities, if you are used to "grown up" horses


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## miss_c (24 January 2011)

I adore my D, she's an absolutely CRACKING allrounder.  She does dressage, XC, SJ, Showing, Working hunter... you name it she'll give it her best shot!

However, she is EXTREMELY clever, will have your whole hand in her mouth (lips only) if she can, very strong to ride, and if she does not want to do something then you can just forget it.  Fortunately she knows her manners, as at 15hh and 550kg (not overweight thank you very much!) she is a lot of horse to be bolshy.  

I wouldn't be without her, but Sec D's really are not for everyone... you need to have a LOT of patience and be prepared to be firm with them!


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