# dropped soles *pics*



## digitalangel (29 July 2011)

Does anyone here know about dropped soles? Horse is a 26/27 year old, suspected chronic laminitis - EMS and Cushings negative. X-rays next week.













how bad are they?


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## ferrador (29 July 2011)

from those photos it looks more like badly trimmed
chris


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## digitalangel (29 July 2011)

care to elucidate?


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## cptrayes (29 July 2011)

I agree with Ferrador (shock!) that there appear to be rasp marks on the heel planes and the walls which suggest that the hoof has been rasped very flat.  You can see the forward/outward sweep of the rasp teeth - I am unaware of any work the horse might have done that would have resulted in such marks.  It would have had to have been walking backwards  !   The heels appear to have been dropped so low that the frog is well proud of them, which will result in severe over-pressure when the horse puts its foot to the floor.

When was it trimmed and who by?

THIS is a true dropped sole:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-4xRQ_EewtyQ/TjMoVkLo71I/AAAAAAAAAt0/KB-4mdTCuFU/s1600/17SEP006.JPG


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## muff747 (29 July 2011)

I might be wrong but I get the impression a farrier has trimmed this foot. The walls have been rasped flat as if prepared for a shoe, completely different to how my trimmer would rasps the walls.  That is apart from the toe where there's an attempt at a mustang roll?


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## digitalangel (30 July 2011)

thanks, these are all interesting replies. The pony was trimmed by a farrier as per vets instructions - to bring down the heel and shorten the toe. i watched him do it, he literally took millimetres off the walls, and a bit off the toe and took the heels down as they had grown more than the rest of the foot. he ran a rasp over the walls, very slightly. no sole was taken off. No mustang roll. Idea was to get the heels down and toe back and not touch anything else. Pony seems no better or worse for the trim. 

I just wanted to know if it was a dropped sole and how bad it was.


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## cptrayes (30 July 2011)

Why did the vet want the heels dropped? An effort to take pressure off the toe? But heels dropped below the level of the frog? It may be lucky if this horse does not now abscess from the excessive frog pressure.  If the heels had grown more than the rest of the foot, is it possible that the pony actually feels he needs feet that shape? Chronic laminitics will usually grow more toe than heel, so maybe he was balancing his feet better, not worse.  Also it's pretty clear (if it was not rasped off)  that he has been wearing the toe in a big roll, so it's probably impossible to know whether it was growing slower or not. 

I can't see myself what possible reason there was to drop the height on this foot at all, when it has made it so flat, especially as the vet was diagnosing dropped soles. If there were a few millimetres of hoof wall there (what has been removed, basically) you would have a flat but not especially uncommon barefoot foot. I can see, looking hard, how the depth of the collateral grooves and the true point of the frog (notthe stringy inch at the end) suggest that there is plenty of height in the pedal bone at the back, so presumably your vet wants xrays to check for rotation. But at this pony's age, I do wonder what the point is. The soles look good and thick and there is no evidence that you afre going to get a sole penetration. What do you intend to do any differently if there is rotation? 

One of my horses had feet that used to be the same every summer until I started supplementing copper. My land causes copper deficiency and the copper was needed for him to regulate his insulin when eating mostly grass. So I can see how this can be cushings/IR/EMS related. What is the horse being fed and allowed to graze?

Is the horse unsound? And if it is, at that age, with suspected chronic pain from long term laminitis, why don't you have it put down?


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## digitalangel (30 July 2011)

thanks for your reply.

The vet didnt diagnose dropped soles this time but had mentioned she had them in the past. She has always had no concavity in the front feet and in her environment (livery yard) she doesnt get much chance to wear them herself. She has never been especially comfortable on gravel, but she is OK on concrete and grass. He thinks chronic laminitis, and you are right in assuming the xrays are to check where the pedal bones are. 

Its more my curiosity, not what the vet said in regards to dropped soles. I hope that makes sense. 

in terms of the heel height, the rings on her feet show more growth at the heel than at the toe. The rings were much wider at the heel. This is my personal understandings of how laminitis presents, so what the vet said made sense to me.

If there is rotation, it depends on the degree i guess. I want to make this pony as comfortable as i can, i know the time will come when her quality of life will deteriorate and i will have to make that decision, im not sure it is right now though. If her rotation is manageable i will try that first. She is a 10 year old girls pride and joy. And mine too. She came from a very bad situation when i got her and she means a lot to me too.

In terms of her management, she has coped OK up until recently either being strip grazed or muzzled. I do try and turn her out when i can because of her age/stiffness but i am aware this may no longer be an option.


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## texel (30 July 2011)

digitalangel  

Looking at the photos I would say your mare's feet are good considering.  I have seen far worse.  Crikey if I posted photos of my little mare's feet everyone would throw their arms up in horror (I will try to do so - camera permitting).  The quality of her hooves is very poor indeed due to many months of inflammation and stress in all four limbs! She has EMS and is just 13 years old her metabolism is up the creek !  

In chronic laminitis the distal growth is slowed whilst the heel continues to grow at the same rate. Have a look at the following article. 

http://www.safergrass.org/pdf/AftertheCrash.pdf

and this one; 
http://www.gotcha.com.au/articles/laminitis_obesity.php     (this article was the key to my mare's dramatic improvement) 

if you send me an email I will send you a link to a video of my dear little mare who is now almost sound after many many months of looking for the right management strategy (been there, bought the T-shirt) helping her through the lameness and pain - even eating soaked hay caused her grief.  In June,  I was contemplating having her PTS but then looking into her dark eyes I knew I had to try again. I  spent many evenings on the internet searching for an answer.  It is a juggling act.  I am only now able to get her back into work. Over the next 9 months I am sure her hooves and feet will just keep on improving - fingers crossed the new regime keeps working.   

All the best


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## cptrayes (30 July 2011)

digitalangel said:



			thanks for your reply.

The vet didnt diagnose dropped soles this time but had mentioned she had them in the past. She has always had no concavity in the front feet and in her environment (livery yard) she doesnt get much chance to wear them herself. She has never been especially comfortable on gravel, but she is OK on concrete and grass. He thinks chronic laminitis, and you are right in assuming the xrays are to check where the pedal bones are. 

Its more my curiosity, not what the vet said in regards to dropped soles. I hope that makes sense. 

in terms of the heel height, the rings on her feet show more growth at the heel than at the toe. The rings were much wider at the heel. This is my personal understandings of how laminitis presents, so what the vet said made sense to me.

If there is rotation, it depends on the degree i guess. I want to make this pony as comfortable as i can, i know the time will come when her quality of life will deteriorate and i will have to make that decision, im not sure it is right now though. If her rotation is manageable i will try that first. She is a 10 year old girls pride and joy. And mine too. She came from a very bad situation when i got her and she means a lot to me too.

In terms of her management, she has coped OK up until recently either being strip grazed or muzzled. I do try and turn her out when i can because of her age/stiffness but i am aware this may no longer be an option.
		
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I understand that a lot better, thankyou.

I'm wrong about heel growth, obviously, especially as you are seeing it in the rings. Laminitic ponies I have known have put out toe and had to have it kept back, but they sound like odd ones!

I hope you manage to keep her comfortable for  a while yet. If she is sound on concrete then you are doing  a lot better than many barefoot horse owners this summer, when the grass has been like poison at times!

Good luck


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## Spellbound13 (30 July 2011)

My horse with severe Lammi did this, its from when the soles are swallen, and the pedal bone rotates.


hope he gets better


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## digitalangel (31 July 2011)

thanks everyone for your replies

texel i will PM you in regards to your pics and vids, thanks

cptrayes, thanks i am going to try to do my best. Shes not sound at the moment, shes lame LF and RH and has laminitis symptoms in all 4. Shes been seen by the vet, is on bute+sedalin and strict box rest. She has had attacks in the past but has always been OK after a period of rest and being kept off the grass, this time she didnt get better, hence my concern. 

spellbound, did your horses soles look like my ponies?


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## cptrayes (31 July 2011)

I'm sorry to hear that, and sorry not to be of any use, advice-wise. I hope you can make her more comfortable.


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## popularfurball (31 July 2011)

Agreed that trim is a bit odd. 

And the growth, I think about it that heels go high in laminitics but the toe grows forwards instead of up. Now my girly has had minimal grass for 18minths her toe grows in height now like her heels, as he White line isn't stretched/compromised in the same way. 

Interestingly now she is slightly underweight all EMS symptoms have resolved as well. 

She looks like she has good soles, with callus forming at the toes.


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## intouch (31 July 2011)

Your photos remind me of an old pony we had who was a "sinker" ie her pedal bone had dropped allowing her pastern bones to sink into the hoof.  This was only apparent in an xray, as, due to the shape of the pedal bone, the colateral groves were quite deep.  She never grew any wall except at the heel, and although the soles looked thick enough, on disection they were thin under the tip of the pedal bone.  Yes, sadly, we did make the decision that in spite of all our efforts, she did not have a good enough quality of life to continue. 
I hope you have better news!


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## Spellbound13 (2 August 2011)

digitalangel said:



			thanks everyone for your replies

texel i will PM you in regards to your pics and vids, thanks

cptrayes, thanks i am going to try to do my best. Shes not sound at the moment, shes lame LF and RH and has laminitis symptoms in all 4. Shes been seen by the vet, is on bute+sedalin and strict box rest. She has had attacks in the past but has always been OK after a period of rest and being kept off the grass, this time she didnt get better, hence my concern. 

spellbound, did your horses soles look like my ponies?
		
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Yes, exactly the same, and sometimes the sole pushed down further than the hoof wall, that was extreamly painfull, he had to wear nappies and/or hoof boots and ski socks 24/7 for him to stand up, the ski socks where to stop the boots rubbing him xx


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## digitalangel (3 August 2011)

thanks spellbound.

little update - rads are done, she rotated and dropped in all 4, but not bad enough to pierce the sole. i am going to try to stabilise her with imprints and (more) management changes and see how she goes. fingers crossed.


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## Spellbound13 (5 August 2011)

best of luck, its a long hard road to recovery


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## Kellys Heroes (5 August 2011)

Good luck
Our girl (16 y/o) was diagnosed with Cushings at Christmas - prior to that, we were told she had pedal bone rotation in both front feet but only mildly. As the illness progressed and she kept coming down with laminitis, her feet started to look more like your girls (although not AS dropped) - our farrier said it was common for ponies suffering from lami and as time has gone on, with very careful management and remedial shoeing (heart bars), her soles have returned to more or less normal, and the pedal bone is apparently sitting in a much more correct position.
It can be done 
K x


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