# SARCOID AND CAMROSA



## fox111 (28 April 2008)

I notice my horse had a scab on the point of his sheath that became alcerated in january this year and have been using camrosa ever since. 

The camrosa has progressed and drawn the sarcoid out of his sheath and it now has a neck, it currently looks like a strawberry.

With advise from camrosa i have covered a larger area with the ointment and have realised that the virus had spread (resulting in a reaction from the ointment, swelling and hot)

I am now covering half of his tummy and hoping for the best.

I am pleased the  ointment has drawn the sarcoid out but now concerned the virus has spread.

A friend of mine highly recomends the ointment for sarcoids Has anyone else used it for sarcoids??


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## Amymay (28 April 2008)

Have you consulted your vet??


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## Britestar (28 April 2008)

Get the Vet. Some sarcoids treated with this cream actually grow, spread and become worse. 
You need a proper qualified person to check this throughly asap!


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## Box_Of_Frogs (28 April 2008)

Fox111 - omg - have you read the leaflet that comes with Camrosa thoroughly? I ordered the full pack when my boy had a sarcoid on his neck but if you read the leaflet it advises NOT to use it for sarcoids. Also, I did some research (only very basic as I got enough info to worry me) on Camrosa and it contains heavy metals which the company originally denied. Heavy metals are toxic. This is all reported in the public domain as a court report, I think in America. I found it through a really basic Google search. I know the company reports excellent results IF IT'S APPLIED CORRECTLY for other skin problems but I totally would NOT put Camrosa cream anywhere near anything as sensitive as my horse's sheath or a sarcoid. Just my opinion.


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## YorkshireLass (28 April 2008)

The only predictable thing about sarcoids is that they are unpredictable.  A horse might have one for years... left alone it may never change.  It might drop off.  It might develop and the whole horse become coverd in them!

There has been no proper trials done with camrosa as a treatment for sarciods.  The only 'evidence' is anacdotal.  Because of the nature of sarcoids, the camrosa 'sucess' stories might have had nothing to do with camrosa at all.  The condition may well have self resolved.

I asked Professor Knottenbelt of Liverpool Uni about using camrosa on sarcoids... and he said don't... because it can stimmulate the condition..... as can any other substance aplied to sarcoids in the hope of getting rid.  His position is that you either leave well alone, or treat the condition using raditation, Liverpool Cream or surgery.  Even these treatments might fail.  So little is known about the condition.  

At the mention of camrosa he sniggerd and said "its a sexy advert isn't it!"
http://www.sarcoids.co.uk/references.htm


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## Tia (28 April 2008)

When I first started using Camrosa about 10 or 12 years ago, I did it in agreement with my vet (a very well known and respected vet I hasten to add).

Every time, during this period, that I have used Camrosa on sarcoids, proud flesh etc. I have had very successful results.  Like so successful that the sarcoids have gone and never reappeared.  

It has dealt with large sarcoids and I'm using it at present with a smaller sarcoid on one of my horses.  I've been putting it on for a week now and the sarcoid is noticably smaller already.  

I have checked and double-checked all of the ingredients which are in Camrosa and my research findings (with the help of a chemistry whizz) were unlike what is suggested above, I found that it isn't toxic.  

I have never even seen Camrosa over here in North America and no-one I know here has even heard of it, therefore I would be interested in the link to clarify this statement that a case came forward over here.

Sarcoids do move and change, that is a natural occurrance so that never bothers me, because it does eventually deal with the sarcoid.  None of the horses I have ever treated with Camrosa have had the sarcoids grow back....and I'm talking many years later, not just a couple of years here.

I can totally understand why Mr Knottenbelt would be against Camrosa, he is a direct competitor to Camrosa and charges significantly more for his cream.  Price is not the issue for me I hasten to add, however I have found something which works and I am happy with it.


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## YorkshireLass (28 April 2008)

There was a hoo-har a few years ago, and they had to remove the "no harmful chemicals" claim from their ads.  Now they have removed all claims from their ads!

Spectral analysis of the ointment was performed and that analysis showed lead, nickel, uranium and lithium to be present in the ointment.


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## rachaelv2005 (28 April 2008)

My mare has a warty sarcoid on her shoulder, its quite flat and scabby. i had never put anything on it before as it had never bothered her.   however my vet advised I try camrosa as several of his clients with horses with similar sarcoids have had good results with the cream.   I have been using it for just over a week, friends have said tha sarcoid looks worse but that is because the dry heads of the warts ahve come off and left pink flesh underneath.  im going to ontinue I think although now I am slightly worried about the harmful chemicals claim.


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## ihatework (28 April 2008)

From memory Camrosa always marketted their product as a treatment for sarcoids, but this was withdrawn a few years ago, I have a feeling a legal case surrounded this decision.
I'd only use this product under the agreement of your vet


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## madmuppet (28 April 2008)

I used Camrosa on a sarcoid my mare had on her eyelid and her inner thigh. I took the sarcoid away on her eyelid but it didnt touch the on her thigh, however the one on her eyelid it came back a few months later and it was much bigger, i used the camrosa again and it did nothing, the vet agreed it needed surgery so she ended up having surgery to remove both the one on her eyelid and her thigh.  I personally dont think the camrosa cream is all that good.


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## Tia (28 April 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
Spectral analysis of the ointment was performed and that analysis showed lead, nickel, uranium and lithium to be present in the ointment.   

[/ QUOTE ] 
Similar to Liverpool Cream then as LC contains heavy metals also.


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## star (28 April 2008)

i would never use camrosa on a sarcoid - heard far too many horror stories about it making things worse.  i did a lot of research before deciding what to try on my horse's one on his inner thigh, but went for the Liverpool cream in the end after advice from various sources.  i think it's working so far, but too soon to tell whether it'll go altogether.


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## Booboos (28 April 2008)

I have used Camrosa on cuts and general skin problems (like irritation from harvest mites) and it has always seemed to work.

I have used it on three sarcoids:
- the first one just kept growing. The sarcoid had been inactive for years, grew when the pony was moved to Yorkshire for three years during which time I used Camrosa for about a year, then stopped growing when he moved to Shropshire
- the second one was a lump on the side of a horse (loin) area which the vet described as "looking like a sarcoid but in the wrong place really", this one shrunk and disappeared within 4 months, a year later it has not returned but hair has not grown back in the area.
- the third one was a sarcoid on a sheath, used Camrosa when it first appeared, did nothing. Stopped using, a year later the sarcoid started growing and fell out by itself.

Sarcoids are such weird things


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## 0ldmare (29 April 2008)

I'm sorry, but I think you should stop using it and get the vet. I dont like the sound of the changes that are taking place. Sarcoids are such odd things - even flu jabs can trigger them because the immune system is compromised (albeit briefly). It sounds like your horse is having a reaction to the ointment and this could in itself trigger the spread of the sarcoids elsewhere. 

I have seen sarcoids treated very sucessfully with a herbal based remedy on several ocassions (and indeed have used it myself on a horse in the past), but my view is that they must be caught early for this to work. I would stop using the Camrosa or at least check with the vet asap


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## fox111 (29 April 2008)

Obvisously i have read the info booklet over and over this was not a last minute idea just to slap some ointment i know nothing about on.

I was recomended camrosa by a well respected sj trainer who had used it on a sarcoid and had fantastic results.

The claim that it contained leathal substances was in the uk and it was found that it contained the same amount as the horse carries in its blood otherwise it would be banned.

My vet said to leave the sarcoid if not causing problems but it became ulserated.

So surely its better for the horse to try the "natural" way rather than the alwful toxin cream the use. Which i would say is no worse than pinfiring a horse surely its the same method or type of treatment as blistering??


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## fox111 (29 April 2008)

*[ QUOTE ]
  "im going to ontinue I think although now I am slightly worried about the harmful chemicals claim". * 

I have lost so much sleep and sounds like your concerned too but i have researched this over and over. 

My horse has been on camrosa since jan and already the sarcoid has been drawn out of his sheath and has a neck so will be able to tie off when blood suply has gone.

Keep intouch with Edwina at comrosa she has been very helpful and reasurring to me.

Im sure if the ointment was that bad my horse would be very poorly but he is ok and competing.


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## fox111 (29 April 2008)

my vet says if its working to continue


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## fox111 (29 April 2008)

the sarcoid has changed dramatically and has gone through the exact stages they told me it would so they must have some knowledge.

Some people have told me horror stories but when spoken to they didnt use the cream as instructed. Camrosa are very strict on how to apply the cream and if other procducts are used it interferes.

They suggest that the metals contained are the same as what the horse carries in its blood therefore it no different to it licking a bleeding wound.

Surely if that toxic you couldnt use on mouth sores.

I have been using camrosa twice daily since jan the horse it fit healthy and competing and when i speak to comrosa they are more concerned with the well being of the horse. 

His tummy is currently inflamed im told they believe this is the virus fighting the ointment.

[image]swollenbelly2[/image]


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## fox111 (29 April 2008)

http://www.asa.org.uk/asa/adjudications/non_broadcast/Adjudication+Details.htm?Adjudication_id=39338

Camrosa complaint was in hampshire


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## Tia (29 April 2008)

It was actually enlightening reading this thread and the other Camrosa thread, because for once there were people on there saying they used it and it didn't work.  I've never had Camrosa NOT work, it always has and I've been thrilled with it's results over the past decade and a half; however I don't believe for one minute that every horse will be treatable using it, just as other treatments may work for one horse, but don't for another. 

Normally ALL I've ever heard are people saying "oooh wouldn't use that - it's horribly dangerous" ... you ask them if they have ever used it, "oh no, just heard horror stories"  .... yeah yeah whatever.


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## star (29 April 2008)

i have to disagree with you that using the Liverpool cream is as bad as firing legs - that's just ridiculous.  I've just treated my horse with Liverpool cream - 5 applications and he hasn't so much as lifted a leg at me - it obviously doesn't hurt or he would not let me do it as it's on a back leg and he's quite a nervy type anyway.  it's only heavy metals in the Liverpool cream, so it's not that much more toxic than it sounds like this Camrosa stuff is.  natural is not always better.  Things like arsenic and deadly nightshade are natural - you wouldn't catch me taking them!


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## JanetGeorge (29 April 2008)

[ QUOTE ]

Normally ALL I've ever heard are people saying "oooh wouldn't use that - it's horribly dangerous" ... you ask them if they have ever used it, "oh no, just heard horror stories"  .... yeah yeah whatever.   
	
	
		
		
	


	





[/ QUOTE ]

Well - some years back Camrosa supplied some to the BHS Rescue Centre to 'try'.  We tried.  We declined to give favourable editorial because the results weren't favourable on several ponies treated for mud fever - one if fact got considerably worse.  Camrosa's response - and its response to any criticism of the product - is quite aggressive, so I will say no more.

However, the BIG difference between Liverpool Cream and Camrosa is that Liverpool Cream is prescribed by perhaps the world expert on sarcoids, ONLY after he has seen photos of the sarcoids and discussed them with the horse's vet.  Some sarcoids are relatively benign, some will go of their own accord if left alone.  Others can respond very aggressively to the wrong treatment and become SO bad that they can result in the horse having to be put down!

I would not use Camrosa on anything - let alone a sarcoid.  Good luck to those who have good results with it.  But I have had several horses treated successfully with Liverpool Cream.  I now own a horse which - when I first saw it - had sarcoids that were SO extensive and so severe that PTS seemed the only option, which was cured by Derek Knottenbolt with an experimental treatment.  The horse has now been sarcoid free for more than 5 years!   I would not trust ANY 'off the shelf' product to treat sarcoids!


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## Booboos (29 April 2008)

I have asked a couple of vets about it, as I have used it over years now on a number of horses and no one has been concerned. At worse they say it could be a waste of money.

There are at least six types of sarcoids, no one knows what causes them, or why they go away, so really one would expect that some things work for some of them but not for others.


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## Box_Of_Frogs (29 April 2008)

Sorry to disagree Tia, but I didn't base my decisions regarding my horse's health on horror stories. I carefully researched Camrosa as I was suspicious that an over-the-counter product could successfully cure a type of skin cancer. The court case is just part of the information gathering. And heavy metals are certainly not normally found in a healthy horse's mouth. I bought Camrosa (wish I'd got the leaflet at home here to quote accurately) and I remember reading that they don't specifically advise it for sarcoid treatment. I was hopping mad at the time coz that's why I had bought it! In fact I thought I'd read that they say NOT to use it for that but not sure. In the end, I was so concerned at the thought of applying something that PROMOTES cell growth and repair (cancer being out of control cell growth) that my Camrosa sits unused in a corner. I'm sure it's absolutely brilliant for the skin conditions/proud flesh etc they say it works for. My first reaction when I hear how well it's worked on a sarcoid is that it probably wasn't a sarcoid in the first place. I did some further research and ended up buying Thuja cream as it appeared to meet my primary requirement which was first, do no harm. I was then pleasantly surprised that it has cleared 2 suspicious sarcoid-looking areas from my horse. However, I am well aware that they might have been about to clear up on their own anyway! An earlier, lumpy area of raised and ulcerated skin that my horse had was examined by my vet and they advised that the current medical thinking is if it looks like a sarcoid, treat it as if it is. They then applied Liverpool cream, which is so toxic that it is a prescription only product that has to be applied by a vet. If Camrosa is similar to Liverpool cream then the same precautions must apply. As I said before, I'd be very cautious about applying such a toxic compound to a horse's sheath without the advice of a vet. The best advice in all these posts is that from Prof Knottenbelt who is a world expert on sarcoids and ragwort poisoning in horses. He has no other agenda than furthering the world's understanding of health problems in horses. I would strongly recommend reading his advice on sarcoids. Sorry to be a bit evangelical but (a) sarcoids are such nasty things and (b) the man is a saint and has helped me save the life of my rescued mare who was close to death with advanced ragwort poisoning.


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## Tia (30 April 2008)

Don't apologise; you have your opinions and it sounds like you have done a good job researching  
	
	
		
		
	


	




.  I did my research, although granted, back then the Internet was not really used so much, so when I found out the ingredients I had to check them with a chemist friend of mine.  My vet and I discussed it at length and he said it was worth a try.  As the years progressed, he saw all of the results on the sarcoids of my horses, and horses who boarded at my yard and was as impressed as we all were.  I use it because it has always worked and I haven't seen any negative issues with it; others don't use it for whatever reason, that's fine by me  
	
	
		
		
	


	




.

I wouldn't put Camrosa in the same league as Liverpool Cream.  Yes they both have heavy metals in them, but that's where the resemblance pretty much ends.  LC is highly toxic.

Yes I have also heard good things about Thuja, but having found something else which has worked for my lot over the years, and something which I have done much more research of since first using, I've stuck with what works for me.

I have to say, although I think Camrosa is a great and successful product for the types of sarcoids I have used it on, I have never had a horse with an open sarcoid (malevolent or fibroblastic) but I know if I did, I wouldn't put Camrosa on that.  I am a bit funny about what I put on open wounds/conditions though.

Thank you for you well written and well thought out post BoF; I'll still use Camrosa and you'll still not use it, but always nice to discuss these things a bit more indepth.


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## Box_Of_Frogs (30 April 2008)

Tia - it's been a pleasure discussing this with you. And after such careful and thoughtful debate, agreeing to disagree is a fine end result. Thanks.


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