# I need help with my 16 year old thoroughbred!!



## Ando85 (11 December 2013)

Hi everyone hoping you can offer me some friendly advice. I have recently purchased my first horse and I am struggling with him. 

With being a novice I decided to look for an older horse that would be easy going and happy hacking out alone or in company a couple of times a week. I thought that an older horse who had been there and done that would be a good starter for me. 

I found a 16 year old thoroughbred who had a lovely temperement and seemed very laid back. His owner told me that he had quite an extensive racing background but that he had been with him for 8 years and had been a happy hacker and was well suited for a novice without being a plod. He hadn't been ridden for a year at no fault of his own and would need reschooling to be bought back into work but it wouldn't take long. 

I was reluctant to buy him without rising him so I asked the owner if we could tack him up and see how he goes. He was brilliant I walked and trotted on him without any problems but I didn't want to canter with him being out of work.

I went ahead and bought him. I keep him at a busy yard but I have stuck to what he's used to living out with a companion and bring him into his box to groom or tack him up. I've hit a few problems with him at first he got very stressed in the box but we've overcome that by walking him all around the yard and the boxes so he gets used to his surroundings, also bringing him into his box for his feed. 

Also he would refuse to walk on for me when leading him in and out of his field but I've found that I've changed my tone of voice and now he responds and doesn't mess. He would also refuse to pick up his feet for me to clean them and would kick out but again we've overcome that by me being more "boss" then "nice".

The main problem is riding him!! I have lunged him and he works perfectly listens to all my voice commands but as soon as I get on him and ask him to trot he wants to canter and starts kicking out and I'm left clinging onto him.I haven't even attempted to hack him out because when I did as soon as he saw the other horses he got way too excited and threw me off. 

I haven't given up but when I get on him I start worrying that he's going to go and automatically tense up on him!! 

Owner says this is out of character for him and I'm worrying it's me. 

Also just to add he was very anxious in the school chomping down on the bit and after some advice I've put him on a calmer which has really calmed his nerves. His feed is one scoop of Mollichop and Speedibeet a day and three slices of hay same as what he has been on with previous owner. 

What am I doing wrong? I can ride but this is knocking my confidence and I am doubting myself. I love this horse and he makes up for it by being as good as gold in every other way now we've overcome his other teething problems. 

Please help!!


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## hnmisty (11 December 2013)

Have you had his teeth, back and saddle checked? They are always good starting points for problems like this


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## Ando85 (11 December 2013)

Thank you!! Yes his teeth and back have been checked and they are fine. His saddle fits fine too and came with him &#128549;


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## Hoofing-it (11 December 2013)

hnmisty said:



			Have you had his teeth, back and saddle checked? They are always good starting points for problems like this 

Click to expand...

Definitely- has anyone else ridden him since he's been with you? You state that you're a novice. Do you have anyone more experienced to hand who could put him through his paces so to speak - after checking out above suggestions of course!


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## MadBlackLab (11 December 2013)

TB are very sensitive and if he been in same home for 8 years he may be struggling with adjusting to a new home. Have you got an instructor who could come and give lessons and pointers?


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## Zero00000 (11 December 2013)

Sounds very much like my TB mare,
She also struggles with new environments, gets very stressy in stables, plants her heels occasionally, can have a buck and a fart when coming back into work and gets overly excited when seeing other horses out on hacks.

She does settle eventually and then is the most loving horse,

I cant really help with advise though, ive had her 10yrs so I just know how to react to her and can feel the slightest different in her that others cant, 
all I will say is just because the saddle came with him, doesn't mean it fits, and coming back into work he will start building muscle and changing shape x


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## DreamingIsBelieving (11 December 2013)

How long have you had him? It can take quite a while for horses to settle into new homes (and without being stereotypical, generally TBs do have a tendency to react badly to change!). Also, having loaned a 16 year old ex-racer, I've found that you can take the horse out of the race, but you can never take all of the race out of the horse! Could it be that coming back into work after time off, he's remembering more of his racehorse aids than his happy hacker aids?? I would assume his racehorse aids would be more ingrained in his memory since he learnt them at a younger age? If you're getting nervous riding him, tensing up, leaning forward and shortening your reins then you're basically giving him the cue to 'go!'. Also, what you say about him getting over-excited seeing other horses out hacking sounds rather 'racehorsey' as well. A good instructor would be able to see if this is the problem or not.


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## Ando85 (11 December 2013)

Hi everybody thanks for your help. I have had him just over a month now. I agree it probably takes some horses a while to settle in and he is coping fantastic to his new surroundings. I'd say the last couple of weeks I've had a break through with him and he's really warming to me and starting to trust me. 

I asked other people on the livery yard about his saddle and they all say it fits perfectly but I will take your advice and check with a saddle fitter.

The owner of the livery yard and another experienced horse owner have been so helpful. They've helped me lunge him and the owner of the yard is a riding instructor and I had a half an hour lesson with her on him today. It was her that pointed out I was tensing up and giving him the cue to go. We did some exercises today to help me loosen up with my legs and hands and it definitely helped but I still feel he's out of control and maybe I'm too much of a novice to handle him?! 

He just starts throwing his head down and kicking with his back legs and goes so fast!! I half halt him and use steady voice commands and try my hardest to relax on him but I can't help but hold on for dear life lol!! 

I haven't asked anyone else to ride him but I'm sure they would for me. I'm going to do weekly lessons on him with my instructor because it's a huge help!! 

Everyone keeps telling me it'll take time. I just hope I'm not doing anything wrong?


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## webble (11 December 2013)

Have you tried doing ground work with him? Things like rein back turn on the fore hand etc are great for relaxing you both before you get on and establishing you as the boss


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## TrasaM (11 December 2013)

Give yourself and him time to settle. I've only recent began to realise just how emotional horses are. I did a Masterson Method session with a TB who is still racing but who'd only been in the new yard 3 weeks. They were having problems with him: tantrums and napping and generally uncooperative. I was expecting a fire breathing hyped up TB. What I found was a very unhappy horse who did have physical issues but within minutes of starting to work on him I could easily have burst out crying. The feeling of sadness he was giving off was almost overwhelming. I don't know why he was feeling like this only that he was miserable and finding life very hard. Maybe it was his new life and he was missing his previous yard or people or maybe he just didn't feel well. His groom told me afterwards that he made her feel the same each time she worked him. Maybe like is some of them fund change harder than others. Hope you manage to get past your nerves as this won't be helping him either. If he's worried about a new environment and then you get on and get tense he'll just be even more convinced that he's in danger and be reactive and spooky.  and take care.


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## Ando85 (11 December 2013)

Hi there thank you for your help yes me and the instructor did this with him today and it certainly helped. We are going to continue to over the next few weeks. 

He had a lovely relationship with his previous owner and I can tell he misses him and he is sad. I will definitely give him time to settle in I just want advice so I can do the best by him. 

I've eased him into things and took time to walk him around his new surroundings the yard, boxes school and nearby lanes. 

I spend as much time with him as I can even just in his field talking to him I get the impression he likes that. 

The last couple of weeks have been lovely as I can tell he's warmed to me. 

He enjoys my company and he comes straight over to me now in his field where as at the beginning he'd just have his back to me and stand looking sad &#128549; 

I try my hardest not to be nervous when excercising him but I came off him badly and hurt myself and finding it really hard. After today's lesson with my instructor I feel better as I was able to relax my hands and legs and immediately he relaxed too.

Is there anything more I can do to help him adjust to his new environment? I think with weekly lessons I will get more confident when riding him and learn to fit with him? &#128522;

I won't be giving up on him!!


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## webble (11 December 2013)

awwww you sound lovely OP


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## TrasaM (11 December 2013)

I think you're doing exactly the right thing and he will settle so try not to worry too much. As long as you've excluded pain and discomfort then it's all down to you and him building on your partnership and him learning that he can rely on you to help him through the scary bits.
I look forward to reading you're next thread where you tell us about how well everything is going x


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## Hoofing-it (11 December 2013)

Good luck- I'm interested to know how you get on as I plan on rehoming a racehorse in the near future. Best wishes.


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## DreamingIsBelieving (11 December 2013)

A month isn't very long at all and it sounds like you've come a long way with him on the ground in that time. It sounds like you're taking all the right steps to improving your ridden partnership with him as well. Definitely carry on with the lessons for a while and see how that goes. It may also be helpful for you to get the opportunity to ride a more placid, easy-going horse every now and again just to help maintain your overall confidence as a rider while you're going though what is hopefully just a 'sticky patch'. I'd definitely persevere wit him for the time being. Could it simply be that he's not the sort you're used to riding, and therefore you may find that you simply need to learn how to ride a more forward-going, speedy horse. I know that when I first rode a non-riding-school horse (that also happened to be the 16 year old ex-racer I loaned) it was like having to learn to ride again, but it didn't take long for me to adapt my aids to suit her. I think if you're determined to make it work and if you keep having regular lessons then work it will!
It sounds to me like you may need to work on getting a balance between keeping him steady and giving him his head every once in a while. Maybe ask your instructor to get on him for a minute so you can observe how she rides him and how that may alter his way of going.


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## Ando85 (11 December 2013)

Your totally right he's not the sort I'm used to riding. I thought I was a very capable rider and able to ride anything perhaps a little over confident tbh. 

I have been used to riding school horses who have had the occasional spook and I've been able to stay on. Although I always rode the more forward going ones they were still school horses at the end of the day.

This had made me realise that I've still got a lot to learn as a rider but I am prepared to put in all the effort I can for him.

We are building a lovely partnership and I won't be giving up on him and will give him all the time he needs!! Hopefully my riding skills will improve an I'll learn to ride him the way I need to.

Thank you for all your advice and help and I will keep you all posted on our journey xx


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## hnmisty (11 December 2013)

OP, I'd try to find a recommended saddler (you could try posting in the regional board on here). I once had a "saddler" out to fit my pony. They were beyond incompetent and it was only because I have a sticky bum that I didn't end up in hospital up to my neck in plaster! 

He sounds like he has landed on his feet with you 



Hoofing-it said:



			Good luck- I'm interested to know how you get on as I plan on rehoming a racehorse in the near future. Best wishes. 

Click to expand...

Want mine? I am planning on selling/loaning lol


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## Ando85 (11 December 2013)

Aww thank you I will do that &#128522; xx


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## EmmyMD (12 December 2013)

Sounds like he might be in pain. Also remember with an extensive racing history hea probably been with more trainers than I've had hot dinners, and new situations probably have a bit of an oh god here we go again.

Also make sure when you trot you aren't shortening your reins and tipping forwards at the same time as this probably means one thing to a conventionally trained racehorse.... GO!


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## EmmyMD (12 December 2013)

Also just a note on stress, if he raced on the flat he has probably had the most military of routines from about 6 months old. And a strict routine has probably been mimicked since, I can tell the time by my gelding! He knows
Exactly when he is meant to come in, get fed, get more hay etc. and I think it helps them cope with new environments. 

Obviously check he is still sound, friends saying it looks fine is not the same as an equine dental technician or saddled or physio coming out.


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## Ando85 (12 December 2013)

Hi there thanks for your reply. I stick with the same routine daily for him so he knows exactly where he is with me.

He has also had his teeth done and legs and back checked by a very competent equine vet. I will be finding a saddle fitter today so they can just check the fit of his saddle for me so we can rule everything out.

His last owner who had him for 8 years had his own stables and field and my tb had just been there with one other companion and his owner.

He was owned by another lady prior to this for a long time and before her he ws racing for 5 years. First run 2000 Last run 2005 31 flat runs in total had 4 wins, 5 seconds, 4 thirds & 1 fourth. Total prize money earned £18,626!! Obviously I didn't learn this until afterwards when I've looked into his racing history. 

We think possibly coming back into a busy yard with all these other horses around him he thinks he's returned to racing and is remembering more of his racing routes. But you will be right bless him he has had different owners and he was so happy with his last owner!! 

Hopefully we'll get there I will let you know what saddle fitter says xx


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## luckyoldme (12 December 2013)

Hi op i know exactly how you feel! Ihe sounds exactly like minr was. Its good that you have such good people around you. Try to imagine how this move has been for your horse. He has no way yet of knowing he is safe in his new home. Only a lot of time and fair handling can make him understand that. My advice is to just take steady slow steps towards your ultimate goal of hacking him out increasing your confidence in each other as you go.
its a very up and down battle but you will get therr and its worth it in thend


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## Ando85 (12 December 2013)

Thank you I will give him as much time as he needs and take it nice and easy with him. I want to give him his forever home and to have a good relationship with him xx


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## luckyoldme (12 December 2013)

mine took about 6 months, but evan after that he just chilled out more and more. It was awful in the beginning but he is very settled and safe now, and has managed to endear himself to everyone he meets!


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## Ando85 (12 December 2013)

Aww that's lovely to hear so hopefully my boy will settle with me &#128522; xx


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## katpower (16 December 2013)

Hey Ando - do you know the One Rein Stop? One of the best riding tools you can have, especially with horses with uncertain brakes... 
http://www.horseproblems.com.au/one_rein_stop_page.htm
Have a read through, give it a go. Basically, it means the horse can't run off, has to stop and think instead of just reacting brainlessly. If you practise this when you're training, it will come more automatically in an emergency - plus, the horse starts to respect your hands on the reins, and often the silly behaviour calms down a little without intervention.
It's saved my butt a lot with my silly TB - who likes a combination of spin/buck/run when stressed.


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## Ando85 (16 December 2013)

Thank you that link was fab!! I will incorporate that into my training with him.

Just to keep you all posted the saddle fitter came out and his saddle fits beautifully so that rules that's out. I had an hours lesson with him yesterday and he was much better!! I felt in control of him throughout the whole lesson he didn't take off on me although he spun around, threw his head forward and bucked I remained on him and still made him trot on, in the end we were trotting perfectly &#128522;

I'm going to carry on perfecting our trot and then we will move onto canter.

I absolutely love this horse!! Thank you everyone will keep you updated on our progress xx


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## TrasaM (16 December 2013)

That's great news Ando. How very lovely that you feel this way about him. I look forward to hearing more about your adventures


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## MadBlackLab (16 December 2013)

So glad to see a positive update. Keep up the good work


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## paddi22 (16 December 2013)

best of luck with him!
I second the poster who mentions the one rein stop. It really really helped with my exracer when he started getting hysterical.

It's taken me nearly two years to come right with my lad, we had a huge amounts of ups and downs, and at times he was completely unsafe to ride and i really though he was better pts at some stages, but we struggled through and he is actually going great now. I always adored him on the ground as he is a pet, but ridden he was just dangerous and I never could feel safe on him.  There were three things that made it click for us finally i think -

- Longlining and groundwork
He was difficult to ride and he reared on a lot of trainers and riders, and even flipped. I worked with a great NH guy and we did tons of groundwork which helped. The long lining was brilliant. It meant I could get him out for walks without having to worry about his rearing or bucking, or me being nervous on him. If he napped I could safely work him through it, and it grew both our confidence.  I also took the pressure off riding him and we went and did inhand shows and just enjoyed each others company with no pressure! He was always just so unsure of himself that if I got nervous at all in saddle then he just lost the plot completely. Stopping riding him allowed us both to get our confidence up with eachother, and when i got back I wasn't nervous at all as I really understood him and knew what way he needed me to ride. It's all very well pretending not to be nervous on him and doing stuff like breathing and singing to relax etc, but it's only when I truly felt in charge and that I could handle anything on him that his behaviour magically changed!

- Turning him out
I turned him out for six months, and just fed and did basic groundwork in the field, and he came back a different horse from it. Just more mature and relaxed. When he came back into stabling I cut out all sugar and starch from feed, and increased turnout and he was lovely and calm.

Tiny steps-
I had to learn to put aside and aims or goals I had, which was really hard as I love competing,  and just go at his pace. His pace is generally at a crawl,  so I was lucky that I could move to a cheaper yard and get a new cheap horse to ride in the meantime. That completely took the pressure off him and we went back to absolute baby steps. 5 mins in walk around the arena could turn into 5 mins plus a small trot, next day 10 mins. If he didn't seem comfortable with something I'd take a step back. He's very genuine and tries his heart out, so when he says 'non' its because mentally he can't handle it. It is slow progress but he is a million miles away from the nightmare he was and i actually enjoy riding him more now that my other one! He has taught me so much about riding and I have learnt so much from the experience.

Edit: also using an elastic bungee rein on him helps! Mine seems to use it like a kid uses a soother, he finds it comforting i think. It doesn't restrict his head, but if he gets stressed and raises it, the bungee seems to reassure him and he relaxs again! Also  another thing that helped was to ride other horses. At one stage I thought i was the worst rider in the world as everytime we rode it was such a disaster, but riding other horses helped get my confidence back and show that it wasn't just me being cr¨p, it was just a difficult horse!


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## paulineh (16 December 2013)

Have you thought being lunged yourself. This will be good as your instructor would have control of the horse and you could work on your balance. Working without stirrups and reins help a great deal.


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## chestnut cob (16 December 2013)

Something else to think about - if he has been kept with just one other horse for 8 years, he might have formed a very strong bond with that horse and be missing it.  I know horses live in the present, unlike people (often), but if he had been only with that same horse for many years they will have formed a strong bond.  Add that to the change in environment, routine, rider, and everything has changed for him so he probably will take a while to settle down.  It sounds like things are improving for you though which is great.

I wonder whether it might be worth asking your instructor to ride him once a week for you maybe?  Especially as he is coming back into work, he might be feeling a bit well and it sounds like he is pushing the boundaries, so having someone more experienced one can only be a good thing.  Last year I bought a young, very green horse and struggled with him as he started to get fitter and stronger.  For a while my YO schooled him 3x per week to establish his manners and response to the aids.  Now he is going well, she still rides him once a week for me and it's so useful for both him and me.  I know your horse is older and established, but it never hurts to have your instructor ride.  If he tries it on with her, she will be able to deal with it more quickly and hopefully nip it in the bud.  Also, she will be able to explain to you how to deal with it, having felt/ experienced it herself.

Hope things continue to improve, look forward to hearing about your progress


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## Ando85 (6 January 2014)

Hi everyone looking for advice again please. Things aren't improving with my TB. It's so disheartening I think we've cracked it and them something else will happen. He's so stressed in his box despite only being in there for a short time when I'm grooming or tacking him up. When I try to groom him he tries to kick out on me and despite being tied up will knock me about a bit. 

I was working him in the school last week and he bucked me off and really hurt me. I got straight back on him and carried on but he's really meaning these bucks now he wants me off!! 

Since then a more experienced person has been working him on the lunge and he was perfect but he's not like that with me &#128549; 

Now when I'm bringing him in he's trying to take off on me and I have to take him back to his field with a shiffny or he'll drag me. 

The whole thing is upsetting me now. I've looked into his history as I've found the girl who used to ride him when he was in racing and he was known for bucking and bronking. He was sedated when hacking out!! 

I just don't know what to do his previous owner isn't in the country. The more experienced ladies on the yard are worried I'm going to end up hurt.

I've fell for this horse!! He's like two different horses he's perfect in the field but in the box and when riding he's not this isn't what I wanted. I wanted a horse I could enjoy and hack out on and he's dangerous and unpredictable with me. I feel so torn please someone give me advice. 

Many thanks


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## Ando85 (6 January 2014)

Can I just add as well that my instructor isn't able to ride at the moment as she's had an injury. The more experienced ladies on the yard are reluctant to ride him because of how he is. I haven't got the money to send him somewhere or get someone to ride him. I'm so stuck people &#128549;


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## Elsiecat (6 January 2014)

It took my 14yo (at the time) TB about 6 months to calm down and I'd say 12 to completely settle with me. But we've now got a great bond and I don't regret a single time I sat outside her stable and cried. 
If theres no physical reason eg pain, I'd keep trying and be as patient as you can be! 
Are you sure his saddle fits? Get it checked by a saddle fitter if you already haven't (sorry haven't read everything!). 
Also I'd recommend TopSpec Calmer. It really took the edge off with mine and I kept her on it for the first 6 months.
What are you feeding him? 
Could you not give him a month over winter out? And just do groundwork and bond in that time? And then perhaps pay someone to ride him a few times to bring him back in?


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## claracanter (6 January 2014)

Have you tried taking him off the speedibeet. A lot of TB's react badly to sugar. You can get unmolassed sugarbeet( but even this is too much for my TB) Try him on a high fibre diet and see if he calms down a bit. A lot of feeds have added sugars so check he's not getting anything unnecessary.
 The bucking could be symptomatic of something else. Has he had his back checked?
 Have a look at this thread http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?647810-TB-turned-difficult-in-winter!
It seems you are not alone!


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## madlady (6 January 2014)

Are you saying his previous owner sedated him for hacking out or he was sedated when he was still on a racing yard?  Sorry confused!

I would knock the riding on the head and spend the next few months on groundwork - long reining, in hand obstacles, in hand hacks but not necessarily lunging as a lot of lunging will fitten him up which might not be the best thing at the moment.

Groundwork will build up trust (both ways) and help you to get to know him and his quirks.

The other thing is that there really might be an underlying reason - there could be arthritic changes or something going on that is being highlighted by him being brought back into work.

Are you able to have a physio out to him?  I'd certainly consider a physio/vet visit to determine if there is something physically wrong - if he has the onset of arthritis or kissing spine then that could very easily explain his behaviour.


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## pipper (6 January 2014)

Agree with the sugar thing - its worth a try. another thing you can have a go with is a balance strap attached to the front d rings of the saddle (or a neck strap) when you feel yourself tensing up, especially with your hands, grab hold of this strap. It will stop you holding on tight to his mouth and will give him the (false) impression that you are staying relaxed. It will also give you extra security so that you are able to stay onboard when he plays up. (or maybe the RSTOR strap)


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## MadBlackLab (6 January 2014)

I agree with the Sugar thing for some reasons it really gets too some TB heads. Try something more natural and with less sugar like simple systems. Also think forget riding and just do ground work and lungeing and concentrate on building a bond with him from the ground


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## PaddyMonty (6 January 2014)

OP - what area are you based? They may be someone on here who may be able to help you even if it is short term.


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## DreamingIsBelieving (6 January 2014)

He sounds very similar to the mare I used to loan. She had no respect for my space in the stable and although she never kicked with meaning she would lift her back leg and give it a little swing around as a sort of 'warning'. Do you think he's being bargey in the stable because he's stressed or do you think it's a respect issue? And are you sure it's stress he's feeling in the stable or could it be excitement? What's he like tied up outside his stable? 
As for riding, what triggers the bucking? E.g is it when you're asking for a downward transition? Sadly, if he was known for bucking when he was younger, it's likely a habit he may always have. Although at the moment he's in 'racing mode', once you get him back to 'happy hacker mode' like he was when you viewed him then the bucking may disappear. I'd also take him off all his feed (gradually reduce it) and see if that makes a difference so you can rule out his diet as a possible trigger.
I think it would be very insightful to see him being ridden by someone else. If your instructor is injured and unable to ride could you ask her if she knows someone who would be willing to come and ride him, just to see how he goes with someone else?

Also, I know all horses are different but the mare I loaned bucked in the school but never out hacking (she went on to become a happy hacker with her new owner). If your horse is the same then it makes sense given all his old owner did with him was hack, the bucking may be an issue they never experienced.

Rereading your first post, you mention he was out of work for a year. The first time he was ridden in a year was when you viewed him? It may be that what he's like now is a more realistic indicator of his ridden behaviour than what he was like when he was dragged out of a field unfit and possibly with only a dim memory of what being ridden means. Once he began to be ridden more often the memories and the emotions attached to those memories may have resurfaced and he may now be becoming the horse he once was. Of course that doesn't explain his behaviour in the stable.
Alternatively, do you think there's any chance he was doped when you viewed him? Not a possibility we like to think of, but he does sound like he's had a personality transplant since you brought him home.


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## Ando85 (6 January 2014)

Thank you everyone for your replies they really help!! &#128522;

I have changed his feeds and now feed him one scoop of Hi Fi Lite and Fast Fibre a day. 

He has had his back checked and his saddle and everything's ok. 

I use a running martingale with a breastplate on him to give me extra control and something to hold onto when he goes. 

I hope he wasn't doped when I rode him but he is like a coneyely different horse to the one I viewed.

I am a novice and I wanted a quiet horse who was happy to hack out with no vices I was assured he was all of these and he certainly seemed he was with his previous owner. 

I'm worrying it's me and he doesn't like me?! I struggle being authoritive with him and I feel as if he does try to push me around. Seeing him being lunged with a very experienced lady on the yard opened my eyes a bit because he doesn't listen to me at all &#128549; 

It's so upsetting I'm not sleeping very well. I just want to have a partnership with him and be able to happily hack out and enjoy each other.

I'm starting to become nervous around him and I dread the days I bring him in for exercise. I feel like everyone on the yard is talking about it and watching but really I know it's because they are worried.

Today my instructor told me to ride another horse he was a very young horse but he has an old head on him and it bought my confidence back a little.

I worry I'm not going to be able to change him and I'm too green for him. It's hard as well when the ladies on the yard give me different views and they are hard to listen to &#128549;

Thank you everyone xx


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## Ando85 (6 January 2014)

Oh and just to add he's also on a top spec calmer has been for about 1 month now xxx


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## Ando85 (6 January 2014)

His previous owner never sedated him it was the rider who rode him at the race yard for 5 years because he was unable to hack out otherwise, apparently he couldn't be hacked out with other horses either because he would explode with excitement. These people are all experienced people too &#128549;


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## claracanter (6 January 2014)

I would look at what you are feeding him again. I wouldn't feed my TB either of those because I know they would set him alight. 

Would you be able to get an instructor who would ride him for you or send him somewhere for schooling and get an expert's opinion. 
It must be added pressure thinking everyone at the yard is looking at you, even if they aren't.


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## Elsiecat (6 January 2014)

I'd cut out feed then OP and just give him unlimited hay. 
Where are you in the country? I'm pretty certain someone on here will be able to help


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## Ando85 (6 January 2014)

I'm only feeding him what's he's always had though his previous owner fed him the same. I was advised to keep his feed the same. 

He was on speedibeet but I swapped that for fast fibre instead? 

I haven't got the money to spend on sending him away for schooling but my instructor is going to ask someone to come and ride him for me. 

Do you think I have been lied to and this is him?! &#128549;


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## Ando85 (6 January 2014)

I am in Shrewsbury xx


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## Elsiecat (6 January 2014)

Ando85 said:



			I'm only feeding him what's he's always had though his previous owner fed him the same. I was advised to keep his feed the same. 

He was on speedibeet but I swapped that for fast fibre instead? 

I haven't got the money to spend on sending him away for schooling but my instructor is going to ask someone to come and ride him for me. 

Do you think I have been lied to and this is him?! &#55357;&#56869;
		
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Yes but he'd been with his old owner for 8 years don't forget. He's gone through great change and that will be a contributing factor (if not the reason) to why he's behaving the way he is. I'd definitely cut out feed for now. It's just extra energy and sugar that can be making him loopy!  

Perhaps you have been lied to but then by the same token - why would they keep him for 8 years if this was 'him'? I think he needs time and patience. Honestly mine was the same (actually - worse!) and it took her 6 months to calm down and 12 to completely settle. These days I would, and have, let complete begginers on her without a single worry.

Shrewburys a little far for me at the moment (my clutch has decided to vacate my life!) but if you're still having trouble in the next few weeks let me know! Not that I can ride right now as I'm pregnant! But I can still help with groundwork etc.


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## DreamingIsBelieving (6 January 2014)

From the behaviour that you've described, I think that you could sort out the naughtiness and respect issues, but I don't think you'll ever get a quiet, laid back, easy-going horse, because that doesn't seem to be in his nature. With all the work, you could end up with an obedient, sensitive but strong horse with a tendency towards over-excitability. Something a confident, competent (but not necessarily experienced) rider may find a great joy to ride.
How many times did you view him before you bought him? A Tb ex-racer that's been out of work for a year and in need of reschooling isn't exactly many people's idea of a perfect first horse (sounds more like a project, tbh), so I find it a tiny bit suspicious that the owner thought he would be suitable for a novice. Was his behaviour unchanged between the 1st and 2nd viewing? Did you get a vetting? If you did then did they do a blood test for the presence of drugs? Such a change in personality seems odd, even for a thoroughbred!
I think seeing how he acts with someone else will be very telling. If the issues disappear, then there is definitely hope!


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## claracanter (6 January 2014)

I don't know if you have been lied to or not OP

Perhaps just give him ad lib hay and some grass nuts for now. Cut out the fast fibre. I spoke to an Allen and Page rep about my boy and said he was sensitive to sugar, she pretty much said the only thing suitable from their range would be veteran vitality! He's 6, I wasn't going to feed that but anyway I took it to be her way of saying that was the only feed they do that doesn't have sugar.

That's great if your instructor can get some one to ride him.

Would you think about getting a vet to check him over in case it is a pain issue?


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## Ando85 (7 January 2014)

I visited him about 6 times with in a month I observed how he was with his owner. He was very relaxed and a big softie. The bond he had with his owner was beautiful!! 

They said because of his age he'd only need light schooling to bring back into work. 

This is definitely not a pain issue I've had everything checked!! 

Do you think he's unhappy?! Maybe the change has upset him it's a busy yard and not what he's used to. He'll be missing his owner and maybe he resents me?! 

I will try everything your suggesting and see what happens. People are telling me to give up with him but I know he's a lovely horse I just want him to bond with me &#128549;


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## MadBlackLab (7 January 2014)

could he have an ulcer?


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## Ando85 (7 January 2014)

I've had all of this checked he is medically fine xx


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## MadBlackLab (7 January 2014)

ok just thought I'd check


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## Frenchfancy (7 January 2014)

I think you have done well to do as much as you have done.

If it were me I would be contacting the old owner to see if he would take him back.  If they had such a good bond it is possible he misses his horse too.  You could then start again with something more suitable.

If you don't you could risk losing your confidence and your love of horses.  Life is too short for that.  We ride because we love it.  Find yourself a horse that you can ride and enjoy.


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## DreamingIsBelieving (7 January 2014)

Maybe it is just an issue of him being separated from his owner of eight years who you say he was very attached to. The fact that you didn't get any bad signs within 6 viewings really makes it sound unlikely that the owner was deceiving you about his behaviour.
Tbs are sensitive (especially ex-racers). He's had an extensive racing career, being looked after and ridden by many different people, and gone from that to being (I assume) a completely one-person horse for 8 years.
A theory you may want to toy around with is that maybe the sudden change has just sent him off the loop. He has no respect or trust in you, he has not got anyone to look to for reassurance and guidance, and it's just all got too much for him. Thing is, he's not going to look to you for reassurance and guidance if he feels your nervousness and insecurity. Would you put your trust in someone who didn't even seem to trust themselves? This could also be why he went well for someone else on the lunge - he felt their confidence and put his trust in them.


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## Ando85 (7 January 2014)

I feel awful now that's so sad to hear. I try to reassure him and offer him guidence I really do. I try and do everything right by him.

I have got so attached to him he's such a sweetheart in the field with me and I know he's a big softie really he's just not happy!! 

His previous owner has stayed in contact with me and we've discussed how he's being he says to just give him time and that he's so surprised he's acting this way.

The owner is travelling and isn't returning to the UK for a long time.

I want what's best for this boy he deserves it I just wish he'd let me bond with him &#128549;


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## Ando85 (7 January 2014)

Just to add I try my hardest not to act nervous around him but it's so hard when he's stressed in his box because I have to be careful he doesn't hurt me. With riding him it's hard not to tense up when he's bucking me. Oh I wish he'd let me in!!


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## MadBlackLab (7 January 2014)

Ando85 said:



			Just to add I try my hardest not to act nervous around him but it's so hard when he's stressed in his box because I have to be careful he doesn't hurt me. With riding him it's hard not to tense up when he's bucking me. Oh I wish he'd let me in!!
		
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does he have to be stabled or can he live out 24/7?


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## Ando85 (7 January 2014)

He lives out 24/7 xx


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## IrishLover (8 January 2014)

I know this might not be everyone's choice but have you tried a horse whisperer or communicator..... whether you believe or not it may throw up something's you haven't thought about and might just give you the answers... what's the worst that can happen?


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## Goldenstar (8 January 2014)

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Ando85 said:



			I've had all of this checked he is medically fine xx
		
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You mean he's been gastro scoped ?


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## unicornystar (12 February 2014)

I have been reading your thread with interest and have a similar situation, however, I've owned the horse 3 years and am reasonably experienced.

I have had back, saddle, teeth the lot checked.  Physio revealed that one hip needed treatment, so was treated and then getting back on board was like a death wish......obviously a lot of pain for an area that had been out of sync some years....

I have spent months pessoa'ing trying to stretch his back muscles and strengthen them and all was looking great.....back on board, cantering no bucking or broncing.

Then the crappy weather set in again and I am back to square one and fast losing my nerve with a horse that I know and love....

I am going back to basics AGAIN....no hard feed other than chaff which I know he is ok with (unlike some TB's), feedmark steady up....and slowly slowly....

If you dont feel confident enough to start at the beginning, maybe this horse isnt for you? - I noted that he barges you around when tied up, this is where to start I would say, he needs to know you are the leader.

Easy to say but perhaps some basic join up and work from the ground (please wear a hat), I am no alternative horsemanship fan but join up IS useful for some tb's.

Personally I would turn your horse away for a couple of months, basic handling, grooming and trust building and then bring him back very slowly......with your instructors help.

If it helps I too have a horse no-one else will sit on through his antics, so it is very hard to see what is going on from the ground!!

Wishing you lots of luck!


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## paddi22 (12 February 2014)

unfortunately if you are a novice he doesn't sound like the right horse for you, and you could get seriously hurt. Most exracers are always going to be hotter than other horses and spooky at the best of time.  He could have been more settled with his old owners cause they were calmer or more experienced riders. If I put a novice on my exracer (who is quiet now) he would absolute flip if he felt they were nervous. Some exracers are extremely sensitive and react to the slightest nerves.  He really doesn't sound like a good fit for you, so there's nothing wrong in admitting that and getting a horse you enjoy and can have fun with.


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## wench (13 February 2014)

Just exactly what has the vet done? Been to look at him, had a prod and a poke and said he's ok?

If this is yes, ring the vet and tell him you are taking the horse to the vets for a full lameness work up. I would also want xrays of back taking and a gastric scope doing


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## mystiandsunny (14 February 2014)

Presuming he's fine with someone else on him...

This is what I hate about today's riding schools.  Most do not, in any way, give an experience comparable to riding even a well behaved privately owned horse.  I have sharers for some of my lot, and every single time I've had to take them right back to the beginning, or I wouldn't see them for dust!  Most riding school horses don't react if you lean forward a bit, or grip with your legs, or have flappy reins that you only use to stop/turn with.  They don't react to your weight usually either.  A thoroughbred will be sensitive and keen to please.  You're probably giving your lovely horse 101 signals you're not aware of, and that's producing the reactions you see.  If you want to keep him, get a competent sharer to help keep him exercised and help with cost, then spend that ££ on lots of lessons.  Those sharers of mine had a lesson each time they rode for many weeks, and then they were finally relaxed enough, and aware enough of their weight to only need one once a week.


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## Fides (14 February 2014)

Lot of good advice on here - keep us updated how you do.


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## jojo5 (14 February 2014)

wench said:



			Just exactly what has the vet done? Been to look at him, had a prod and a poke and said he's ok?

If this is yes, ring the vet and tell him you are taking the horse to the vets for a full lameness work up. I would also want xrays of back taking and a gastric scope doing
		
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^this ...........when you mention medical checks, what has been done ? And by whom?


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## cobmum (15 February 2014)

Interested to find out how you are going?

I honestly think you are doing and trying everything you can which is very honourable but if you are overhorsed, under confident and don't have funds for additional training then there is no harm in admitting you made a mistake.


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