# Equ-Streamz - Your Experiences?



## acorn92x (5 August 2014)

http://www.streamz-global.com/equ-streamz/ 

Has anyone brought/used/trialled or been given a pair of these bands? I'm seriously tempted to buy them for my girl (No ailments as such, just a small splint on her near fore) but the outlay is quite large for something that might not be even remotely helpful! 

I've been following the Facebook and Twitter pages that are run by Equ Streamz with keen interest and they seem to have had nothing but rave reviews so I'm now thinking they could be a worthwhile investment! 

I went and spoke to the team at the Royal International Horse Show at Hickstead last Friday and they were tremendously helpful and I keep asking myself why I just didn't buy a pair there and then (They had 20% off them too!), although my OH being a bit bored and fracious after having to poke up with me getting excited over things he didn't have the foggiest idea about all day may have had something to do with it...

ANYWAY! Have any of you guys had exeprience with these, and if so, do you care to share whether they have been positive before I bite the bullet and invest?


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## only_me (5 August 2014)

I dont really understand the science behind it - how can a mix of rubbers balance and re-arrange the ions within the body? 

I suspect its like those mojo bracelets, the hologram ones, and not too sure what benefits the streamz would have tbh.


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## ihatework (5 August 2014)

Sounds like the stuff that is excreted from a male bovines anus to me


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## Happy Hunter (5 August 2014)

Good answer ihatework! 
Nothing more to add   - agree totally.

Mind you the placebo effect does actually work on some people!


Edited to say  - £90 for two friendship bracelets.... Crikey, I should be in that business!


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## ester (5 August 2014)

only_me said:



			I dont really understand the science behind it - how can a mix of rubbers balance and re-arrange the ions within the body? 

I suspect its like those mojo bracelets, the hologram ones, and not too sure what benefits the streamz would have tbh.
		
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I bothered to read their description of the science for science people the other day, I wasn't sure I should have bothered  as they managed to get the chemical symbol for Magnesium wrong in their table..... oh and the fact they call it 'science' -including the ''!

http://streamz-global.com/pdf/streamz-cyclotron-effect.pdf


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## acorn92x (5 August 2014)

Happy Hunter said:



			Good answer ihatework! 
Nothing more to add   - agree totally.

Mind you the placebo effect does actually work on some people!
		
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See this is what I was thinking (With regards to the placebo effect). I've seen posts from professional event riders that they think that their horses have improved their rate of recovery after exercise, have recovered from periods of lameness etc quicker when using the bands than when have not. I'm a bit cynical with things like this usually but the fact that I have not seen 1 negative review about them is making me curious, which is why I'd be interested to hear from someone who has actually used them and to give an overview of their experiences with them.


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## acorn92x (5 August 2014)

ester said:



			I bothered to read their description of the science for science people the other day, I wasn't sure I should have bothered  as they managed to get the chemical symbol for Magnesium wrong in their table.....

http://streamz-global.com/pdf/streamz-cyclotron-effect.pdf

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Hahahahaha! Okay, the more you guys are saying, the more I'm thinking I could spend £79.99 on something else (Or be good and NOT spend )...


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## ester (5 August 2014)

blah, I think humans can easily perceive and effect that isn't there  same as with the mojos.


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## Happy Hunter (5 August 2014)

Ahhh, but does the Placebo effect work if you are already questioning it?!


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## ester (5 August 2014)

I think it might work even better the more expensive something is


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## acorn92x (5 August 2014)

ester said:



			I think it might work even better the more expensive something is 

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Pfft. This! Couldn't agree more!

I *think* that I may have been pursuaded that my hard earned £79.99 is better off in my bank than in the pockets of Equ-Streamz  I'd still be interested to hear other peoples POV though.


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## TGM (5 August 2014)

I am very sceptical about this sort of thing and I must say the explanation of the science behind the product did not impress me at all.  However, having said that, my daughter was offered the chance to trial a pair of this bands and as her horse had recently had a very 'off day' competing and she felt he was not entirely right (although veterinary examination revealed nothing) she decided to give the bands a whirl.  Since then the horse has been back on form and has had a string of excellent results (most notably 2nd in a BE100u18, 10th in a BE Novice, 6th individually with a double clear at National Riding Club Horse Trials Championships in the Open class).  Daughter feels the horse is jumping better and more enthusiastically than before.  We have also noticed that the very large thoroughpins he has on his hocks have reduced quite obviously in size.  Now, all this might could just be coincidence and nothing to do with the bands at all, but she is keeping them on him just in case!

They do seem a lot of money for what they are though, and we would have baulked at paying that price if we had not been offered the chance to trial the bands.


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## acorn92x (5 August 2014)

TGM said:



			I am very sceptical about this sort of thing and I must say the explanation of the science behind the product did not impress me at all.  However, having said that, my daughter was offered the chance to trial a pair of this bands and as her horse had recently had a very 'off day' competing and she felt he was not entirely right (although veterinary examination revealed nothing) she decided to give the bands a whirl.  Since then the horse has been back on form and has had a string of excellent results (most notably 2nd in a BE100u18, 10th in a BE Novice, 6th individually with a double clear at National Riding Club Horse Trials Championships in the Open class).  Daughter feels the horse is jumping better and more enthusiastically than before.  We have also noticed that the very large thoroughpins he has on his hocks have reduced quite obviously in size.  Now, all this might could just be coincidence and nothing to do with the bands at all, but she is keeping them on him just in case!

They do seem a lot of money for what they are though, and we would have baulked at paying that price if we had not been offered the chance to trial the bands.
		
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Thanks for the response to this TGM. I'm glad that they seem to be working for your daughter and her horse. It's reviews like this that make me curious about them! I am usually very disbelieving with regards to alternative therapies and things like this but it's the fact that people seem to consistently speak very highly of them and the results that they give. I'd be interested in borrowing or trialling a pair of them to see whether I feel that they actually work for my pony but I don't suppose that opportunity is still available? Literally the only reason I'd be buying them would be to see if they help my mare with a splint (Which isn't overly large) on one of her front legs as I want to eventually do some Heritage M&M with her (She's a 5y/o Highland pony). It causes no trouble whatsoever, it just obviously isn't too desirable in the show ring, so if they worked and helped to reduce the size a bit (Saying that, it's not massive or hugely noticeable) , £79.99 is obviously a small price to pay but I'm still sceptical. 

Any other users out there?


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## TGM (5 August 2014)

I'm pretty sure the trial period is over now, as they have had their official launch.

With regard to your pony's splint, I would be patient and give it time.  A horse of mine threw a noticeable splint at 4 years old and it gradually disappeared of its own accord without any treatment!


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## ester (5 August 2014)

just discovered it will make your fruit crops grow better too  - quiet day in the scientists' office here! Still not completely sure why if in the PDF overhead power cables are bad because of their cyclotron effects we want to make all of our bits start spiralling too... 

'In the case of a human body, that &#8216;steady state&#8217; is the Earth&#8217;s magnetic field. The ions in motion are those chemical ions in fluids and minerals found within the cells of the body (copper, iron, magnesium, etc.). '
- copper and magnesium being particularly unaffected by magnetic fields :rolleyes3: 

I should stop reading now


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## Dizzle (5 August 2014)

It's clearly the next logical step in the 'loom band' marketing phenomenon!


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## acorn92x (5 August 2014)

TGM said:



			I'm pretty sure the trial period is over now, as they have had their official launch.

With regard to your pony's splint, I would be patient and give it time.  A horse of mine threw a noticeable splint at 4 years old and it gradually disappeared of its own accord without any treatment!
		
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Thanks for the info TGM! Much appreciated.


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## happyclappy (5 August 2014)

reading their blurb makes it all sound so good, a o many catalogues with items for the elderly! at that price i won't be trying, but interested all the same to hear any feedback. placebos do work also. mind over matter and all that!


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## cobgoblin (5 August 2014)

Hmmm....wonder if they've done any double-blind trials to eliminate placebo and observer effect.


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## Tiddlypom (5 August 2014)

I noticed the following recent post on the Equ-streamz study group  Facebook page, in connection with a news report about Pippa Funnell having to withdraw Billy Beware from the WEG.

_'We could have stopped this... 90%+ of lame horses have been sound within one week of wearing the EQU bands. If anyone knows Pippa please pass on our condolences and our details for her to contact us...'_

Hmmm....


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## Renvers (5 August 2014)

Tiddlypom said:



_'We could have stopped this... 90%+ of lame horses have been sound within one week of wearing the EQU bands. If anyone knows Pippa please pass on our condolences and our details for her to contact us...'_

Hmmm....
		
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Is this the same "science" behind the holobands? which I must admit I also don't understand.


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## acorn92x (6 August 2014)

Tiddlypom said:



			I noticed the following recent post on the Equ-streamz study group  Facebook page, in connection with a news report about Pippa Funnell having to withdraw Billy Beware from the WEG.

_'We could have stopped this... 90%+ of lame horses have been sound within one week of wearing the EQU bands. If anyone knows Pippa please pass on our condolences and our details for her to contact us...'_

Hmmm....
		
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I thought this was an incredibly bold statement on their behalf! As curious as I am about these bands, I fail to see how a band can either prevent or cure lameness any faster than the horse itself can heal...


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## Dizzle (6 August 2014)

I imagine 90% of lame horses are sound within a week without wearing the bands too!


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## Matt at streamz (14 September 2014)

I see this thread and all i ask is that you keep an eye on them and wait to see what they have achieved ob so many horses. since the show we are now collecting endorsements (no financial) by the top professionals in the sport; olympic champions who you cheer for... riders who we aspire to be. 

Clinical evidence is EXTREMELY difficult and costly to achieve; we strive to achieve that but until then we expect to face scepticism.

I will respond to some other posts if that helps...


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## Matt at streamz (14 September 2014)

No... in fact, we ran a placebo study across 40 horses, 20 with 20 without, 6 of the 20 with no streamz went sound within the month, 19 of the 20 with bands were sound. We are unable to put this on our site as it is not clinical evidence and breaks advertising regulations, but we are in the process of creating a study document brochure which will be available on download.


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## Matt at streamz (15 September 2014)

Dizzle said:



			I imagine 90% of lame horses are sound within a week without wearing the bands too!
		
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No... in fact, we ran a placebo study across 40 horses, 20 with 20 without, 6 of the 20 with no streamz went sound within the month, 19 of the 20 with bands were sound. We are unable to put this on our site as it is not clinical evidence and breaks advertising regulations, but we are in the process of creating a study document brochure which will be available on download.


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## Sebastian (15 September 2014)

Sorry, Matt, but I am calling shenanigans, but hey, people buy the "magnetic bracelets" and believe it makes them better, so why not something similar for horses?


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## Matt at streamz (15 September 2014)

TGM said:



			I am very sceptical about this sort of thing and I must say the explanation of the science behind the product did not impress me at all.  However, having said that, my daughter was offered the chance to trial a pair of this bands and as her horse had recently had a very 'off day' competing and she felt he was not entirely right (although veterinary examination revealed nothing) she decided to give the bands a whirl.  Since then the horse has been back on form and has had a string of excellent results (most notably 2nd in a BE100u18, 10th in a BE Novice, 6th individually with a double clear at National Riding Club Horse Trials Championships in the Open class).  Daughter feels the horse is jumping better and more enthusiastically than before.  We have also noticed that the very large thoroughpins he has on his hocks have reduced quite obviously in size.  Now, all this might could just be coincidence and nothing to do with the bands at all, but she is keeping them on him just in case!

They do seem a lot of money for what they are though, and we would have baulked at paying that price if we had not been offered the chance to trial the bands.
		
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Hi, thank you for taking the time to respond to this post. Impressing people with the science is not something we can do on the website - we aim to achieve scientific proof but this is incredibly expensive and takes years. We will get there. We offered Anna bands as part of our study and she reports good things as you say in your post. 

To achieve the benefit your horse has experienced, for the price they are, seems very reasonable and not "a lot of money for what they are".... We have horses that were prescribed £80 a month+ on medications (which created long term issues for the horse) and wear boots that cost £150+. The bands are designed to last, they provide benefits beyond anyone can explain and have results and endorsements by some of the biggest names in the sport. (just look at how much material is inside the band versus magnetic boots or rugs)

All the best and thanks for posting your opinion again.


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## Matt at streamz (15 September 2014)

Sebastian said:



			Sorry, Matt, but I am calling shenanigans, but hey, people buy the "magnetic bracelets" and believe it makes them better, so why not something similar for horses?
		
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I see the results everyday - and plants dont get placebo (scientific proof that the material increases cell growth by 21.7% ADF, cellulose, and ADL, lignin.


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## invisible illness (15 September 2014)

Acorn92x I'm from New Zealand and I got some bands, and they have only done amazing things for both me and my horse! My horse has more energy than ever, and is looking and feeling the best he ever has! He is recovering from work outs heaps faster and in general is a much happier horse. He runs around in the paddock and loves getting into his dinner. If you have a more questions for me please feel free to contact me


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## TGM (15 September 2014)

Matt at streamz said:



			To achieve the benefit your horse has experienced, for the price they are, seems very reasonable and not "a lot of money for what they are".... We have horses that were prescribed £80 a month+ on medications (which created long term issues for the horse) and wear boots that cost £150+. The bands are designed to last, they provide benefits beyond anyone can explain and have results and endorsements by some of the biggest names in the sport. (just look at how much material is inside the band versus magnetic boots.
		
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I quite agree that when you have used the bands and seen results they are worth the money, but my point was that we would have baulked at the price if we were not sure whether they would work.  They don't fall into the price category where people will think they will give them a whirl as there is not too much to lose if they don't work.  I do think the results on plants sound fascinating though and if you can provide detailed evidence on that I think it will help persuade people that the bands actually 'do' something.


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## Matt at streamz (15 September 2014)

TGM said:



			I quite agree that when you have used the bands and seen results they are worth the money, but my point was that we would have baulked at the price if we were not sure whether they would work.  They don't fall into the price category where people will think they will give them a whirl as there is not too much to lose if they don't work.  I do think the results on plants sound fascinating though and if you can provide detailed evidence on that I think it will help persuade people that the bands actually 'do' something.
		
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And I agree with you; anything that helps separate us from mojo or similar companies is a good thing. 
We received the scientific analysis on the plants within the past two weeks so are now working on getting that on our site to show people.
Thanks and take care.


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## Blackopal (15 September 2014)

Placebo effect or not - I don't really care to be honest. One thing I DO know is that me, my daughter and our mare all wear ours 24/7 and I wouldn't be without them! 

I wear mine as I have back problems. No, it has not cured me but it has lessened my everyday discomfort and pain to a manageable level. It has done the same for my 16 year old daughter who has knee problems. Before wearing the YouStreamz she could barely walk at times, her problem is greatly reduced and she wears hers with her dresses, shorts etc and people are always asking her about it. I don't understand the science behind it, what I do know is that it works for us. 
Our mare wears it got her splints. I tried other magnetic boots ( which by the ways are also VERY expensive to buy new ) but she got too hot in them and they rubbed her. She wears her EquiStreamz 24/7 and the splint IS reducing. She has been worked throughout and has not been lame with it. We have only been using the bands since July for anyone who thinks this is just a natural occurrence, and I use nothing else for them. 

 To me, these are worth every penny and I wouldn't be without them.


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## Matt at streamz (15 September 2014)

Happy Hunter said:



			Good answer ihatework! 
Nothing more to add   - agree totally.

Mind you the placebo effect does actually work on some people!


Edited to say  - £90 for two friendship bracelets.... Crikey, I should be in that business!
		
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Happy hunter - before you question our product and in effect please look at what we have achieved in less than 3 months (working with the likes of the Royal family, Olympic champions, Grand national winners, etc) 

Maybe you should ask some people who have actually tried the bands what they actually think? 

Placebo doesnt make fetlocks reduce in swelling overnight, nor does it increase mobility or help with windgalls, or even help horses with grass sickness or with behavioural issues.

"Many great actions are committed in small struggles."


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## blitznbobs (15 September 2014)

Matt at streamz said:



			Happy hunter - before you question our product and in effect please look at what we have achieved in less than 3 months (working with the likes of the Royal family, Olympic champions, Grand national winners, etc) 

Maybe you should ask some people who have actually tried the bands what they actually think? 

Placebo doesnt make fetlocks reduce in swelling overnight, nor does it increase mobility or help with windgalls, or even help horses with grass sickness or with behavioural issues.

"Many great actions are committed in small struggles."
		
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On the contrary placebo does many surprising things - you should look at the studies on placebo and norcebo effects... I'd like to see a clinical trial of your product if you have one.


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## Matt at streamz (15 September 2014)

acorn92x said:



			Pfft. This! Couldn't agree more!

I *think* that I may have been pursuaded that my hard earned £79.99 is better off in my bank than in the pockets of Equ-Streamz  I'd still be interested to hear other peoples POV though.
		
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What a great shame that people who havent actually tried the bands persuaded you away from them. As we explained at Hickstead we were all about feedback. You would have been told that if the bands didnt work you would get your money back.(Not something that sounds like a company out to make a few quick bucks) 

We wish you (and your horse) the very best in the future, please keep an eye on our FB page as you will notice some of the people who are endorsing the bands...


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## Matt at streamz (15 September 2014)

blitznbobs said:



			On the contrary placebo does many surprising things - you should look at the studies on placebo and norcebo effects... I'd like to see a clinical trial of your product if you have one.
		
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Clinical trial. Do you understand the basis of running clinical trials with horses? It can take several years and hundreds of thousands of pounds. Saying that, we are talking with some of the countries top vets such as David Marlin (Team GB) to ascertain how and what we run clinical trials on... muscle repair/wound recovery/inflammation... etc. We are talking with the countries top animal science department and with various organisations regarding funding.

So many people in this country resort to "Where are your clinical trials?" but many dont quite understand how incredibly difficult that is to achieve... this country, even the equestrian world, is run by suits and corporations. 

Placebo of course works - power of the mind and all - just look at Mojo. In our eyes comparing us to products like that is comparing a thoroughbred with a mule. 

I could go on-and-on-and-on-and-on; reality is that until people actually try them they are basing their opinion on something unknown.


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## Matt at streamz (15 September 2014)

Renvers said:



			Is this the same "science" behind the holobands? which I must admit I also don't understand.
		
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No. it is very different.


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## Matt at streamz (15 September 2014)

ester said:



			just discovered it will make your fruit crops grow better too  - quiet day in the scientists' office here! Still not completely sure why if in the PDF overhead power cables are bad because of their cyclotron effects we want to make all of our bits start spiralling too... 

'In the case of a human body, that steady state is the Earths magnetic field. The ions in motion are those chemical ions in fluids and minerals found within the cells of the body (copper, iron, magnesium, etc.). '
- copper and magnesium being particularly unaffected by magnetic fields :rolleyes3: 

I should stop reading now 

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That document you were quoting from was written by the inventor. Although hard to absorb, if you read the document on 'cyclotron effect' you would have discovered it is NOT about magnetic fields but in fact to do with resonance. The inventor was a scientific specialist on molecular frequencies. Copper and magnesium do have their own frequencies and it is this which 'interacts' with the field within the band. 

Why not check out the actual results... ?


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## Sebastian (15 September 2014)

Oh dear. I am loving the sudden influx of newly registered posters, with one post behind them. Obviously people are so happy with their equ streamz that they spend their whole evenings searching for any discussions about equ streamz and then quickly join in to tell us how great their equ streamz are. Come on, we were not all born yesterday and it's quite pathetic and insulting that you would try this. 

On the other hand, I must say though, these equ-streamz - what a great idea to make money. I wish I had thought of this, but unfortunately my brain just does not work like this.


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## ester (15 September 2014)

Err we're mammals not plants, just thought I'd point that out. 

40 horses - way not enough! you don't need a clinical trial but get some quality mammal data published in a peer review journal (and use proper references in your own material :rolleyes3 and you might have a bit more weight. 

Oh well, the plethora of post doctoral scientists in our smallish clinical diagnostics company had a good chuckle at the blurb on the website anyway


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## Matt at streamz (15 September 2014)

Sebastian said:



			Oh dear. I am loving the sudden influx of newly registered posters, with one post behind them. Obviously people are so happy with their equ streamz that they spend their whole evenings searching for any discussions about equ streamz and then quickly join in to tell us how great their equ streamz are. Come on, we were not all born yesterday and it's quite pathetic and insulting that you would try this. 

On the other hand, I must say though, these equ-streamz - what a great idea to make money. I wish I had thought of this, but unfortunately my brain just does not work like this.
		
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Oh really, i cannot get into a 'tit-for-tat' - i am not a scientist and do not claim to be one. I do know the results and I do know that there are certain routes we go down before we can claim clinical approval. 

Just so you know: i posted on FB making people aware that this thread existed... (thats why you'll hopefully see some people take their time to comment on the bands)


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## Matt at streamz (15 September 2014)

ester said:



			Err we're mammals not plants, just thought I'd point that out. 

40 horses - way not enough! you don't need a clinical trial but get some quality mammal data published in a peer review journal (and use proper references in your own material :rolleyes3 and you might have a bit more weight. 

Oh well, the plethora of post doctoral scientists in our smallish clinical diagnostics company had a good chuckle at the blurb on the website anyway   

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Well your "smallish clinical diagnostics company" should be more supportive of new technologies that are making a difference then. You should be perfectly aware of how much clinical research can cost with the likes of Universities, and how long it can take. You should also be perfectly aware of how difficult it is to gain clinical evidence without case studies to go by; hence us building as many as we can and using that to gain leverage to achieve clinical trials.  

Maybe if your post doctoral scientists could spend their obviously very valuable time actually offering some constructive opinions then maybe we could challenge 
the pharmaceutical companies with a more even playing field. 

Have a lovely day chuckling away, saving the world, and obviously making such a difference.


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## ester (15 September 2014)

I'm not expecting clinical studies, that was my whole point... that you seem to have missed. I actually read all of the information on your website with initial interest, and as a biologist passed it on to the chemists and physicists to see if they could pick up on anything I was missing. 

I also don't have a pharma chip on my shoulder, we work with a few of them on research. And even though my colleagues are mostly male we can multitask, saving the world (well people, pigs, sheep and cattle at the moment  ) and perusing some high quality pseudo-science. 

Now you are here did you notice you had the chemical symbol for Magnesium wrong in your more detailed scientific explanation? and what are the details for this reference? 'Cyclotron Resonance in Human Body Cells, 1990' thanks.


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## Matt at streamz (15 September 2014)

ester said:



			I'm not expecting clinical studies, that was my whole point... that you seem to have missed. I actually read all of the information on your website with initial interest, and as a biologist passed it on to the chemists and physicists to see if they could pick up on anything I was missing. 

I also don't have a pharma chip on my shoulder, we work with a few of them on research. And even though my colleagues are mostly male we can multitask, saving the world (well people, pigs, sheep and cattle at the moment  ) and perusing some high quality pseudo-science. 

Now you are here did you notice you had the chemical symbol for Magnesium wrong in your more detailed scientific explanation? and what are the details for this reference? 'Cyclotron Resonance in Human Body Cells, 1990' thanks.
		
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I didnt notice and i will ask the guys to look into it. Unfortunately, our inventor passed away a couple of months ago which doesnt help us when asked to explain his document. Here is the reference document he used within his document. http://www.haroldaspden.com/reports/10.pdf

If you are involved with cattle then hopefully we'll cross paths at some stage. We are working with several leading dairy farms running studies on these bands within dairy farming. The bands showed initial results in balancing cell counts in the milk; this is in its infancy but we are working with 8 of the leading dairy farms in the UK and supported in this study by Anglia Farmers. We have to start somewhere. (Balancing cell counts has significant impact to dairy farmers; as does the ongoing management of mobility)


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## MerrySherryRider (15 September 2014)

I'd never heard of these so looked at the site and got the impression that it was yet another badly marketed product that gave me little idea of what the concept was all about. 
Over the years I've tried supplements, magnetic boots, reiki etc etc. to manage conditions and quite honestly, did any of them work ? No. Basically, the only thing that makes a difference is a good prophylactic care and good management of existing conditions, none of which incur much or any extra cost.  

 There is no magic cure but if it helps to buy a product that gives you hope, and the power of the placebo effect can be quite significant, then why not. As long as it does no harm to any thing  other than your pocket.


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## Blackopal (15 September 2014)

Sebastian said:



			Oh dear. I am loving the sudden influx of newly registered posters, with one post behind them. Obviously people are so happy with their equ streamz that they spend their whole evenings searching for any discussions about equ streamz and then quickly join in to tell us how great their equ streamz are. Come on, we were not all born yesterday and it's quite pathetic and insulting that you would try this. 

On the other hand, I must say though, these equ-streamz - what a great idea to make money. I wish I had thought of this, but unfortunately my brain just does not work like this.
		
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Yes, I am a new user. Matt posted on FB about this tread and some of us have joined purely to give the OP the benefit of our experiences - which IS what she asked for! If you are insinuating that all the post are from one person I am quite happy to give you my real name and you can check out the EquiStreamz FB page to satisfy yourself that I have posted on there as well. 

If you don't believe in the benefits and think it is all a big con then that is your opinion but the OP are getting some feedback from people who are ACTUALY using the product rather than from people who have not even tried it!!!!!!!


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## ester (15 September 2014)

Thanks for the link , will have a peruse later.

Only foot and mouth disease at the moment cattle wise.


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## Matt at streamz (15 September 2014)

ester said:



			Thanks for the link , will have a peruse later.

Only foot and mouth disease at the moment cattle wise.
		
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Well please do keep an eye out for us in the market; MOO StreamZ


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## ihatework (15 September 2014)

Matt,

Do you offer a full money back guarentee on your product?


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## Floxie (15 September 2014)

Matt at streamz said:



			MOO StreamZ 

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o.o
... oh my!


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## Matt at streamz (15 September 2014)

ihatework said:



			Matt,

Do you offer a full money back guarantee on your product?
		
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Not as a rule as we havent had to; but we will in this case. Nothing to hide and everything to prove!


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## Beausmate (15 September 2014)

Where's JFTD when you need her?


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## acorn92x (15 September 2014)

Matt at streamz said:



			Not as a rule as we havent had to; but we will in this case. Nothing to hide and everything to prove! 

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This. People didn't talk me out of it, I felt that it was a lot of money to spend when the product might not necessarily work and I wasn't prepared to spend that much on something which had been tried on a relatively small number of horses. I know the results in a lot of cases have been positive but if there was to be a money back guarantee if there were not results, it is something I would consider trying.


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## Blackopal (15 September 2014)

I would like to ask HOW you can have an opinion on any product you have never tried???????? There is plenty of support from people who have used the bands but I don't see anyone saying they have used it and it didn't work............... Just saying!


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## chestnut cob (15 September 2014)

TBH, having read through the website, the amount of stuff the web designer has put into quotes, "for example" describing the human body's "steady state", is enough to put me off.  Using all of those quote markers suggests you don't really believe the thing you are quoting. It's like saying "apparently" all the time.  Grr.

I've read through the supposed scientific pages and am going to ask one of our physicists at work what they think about it!  

One genuine question though - are you really suggesting that your product can replicate the effect that a big piece of kit like this produces?  http://www.psfc.mit.edu/library1/catalog/reports/2000/09ja/09ja038/09ja038_full.pdf  Therefore presumably negating the need for medical cyclotrons around the world?


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## acorn92x (15 September 2014)

Blackopal said:



			I would like to ask HOW you can have an opinion on any product you have never tried???????? There is plenty of support from people who have used the bands but I don't see anyone saying they have used it and it didn't work............... Just saying!
		
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So are people not allowed to have opinions on things that they haven't tried/experienced then? I'm saying it's potentially an expensive risk to take if they don't work and yes, while they have worked for many, they might not work for all. I know this is the same with any product but if they were cheaper, it might be something I'd consider trying. I'm still tempted but I'm really not sure it's something that I'm tempted enough by to spend £80 on them! Sadly I'm not made of money...


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## Matt at streamz (15 September 2014)

chestnut cob said:



			TBH, having read through the website, the amount of stuff the web designer has put into quotes, "for example" describing the human body's "steady state", is enough to put me off.  Using all of those quote markers suggests you don't really believe the thing you are quoting. It's like saying "apparently" all the time.  Grr.

I've read through the supposed scientific pages and am going to ask one of our physicists at work what they think about it!  

One genuine question though - are you really suggesting that your product can replicate the effect that a big piece of kit like this produces?  http://www.psfc.mit.edu/library1/catalog/reports/2000/09ja/09ja038/09ja038_full.pdf  Therefore presumably negating the need for medical cyclotrons around the world?
		
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Check out the rules and regulations with ASA and you should understand that we have to use the words we use on the site. 

I cannot comment on the pdf you sent in your previous post... but i do have the definition on a cyclotron...
"an apparatus in which charged atomic and subatomic particles are accelerated by an alternating electric field while following an outward spiral or circular path in a magnetic field." - Now thats exactly why our inventor referred to the energy created by StreamZ material as a cyclotron.


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## Matt at streamz (15 September 2014)

acorn92x said:



			So are people not allowed to have opinions on things that they haven't tried/experienced then? I'm saying it's potentially an expensive risk to take if they don't work and yes, while they have worked for many, they might not work for all. I know this is the same with any product but if they were cheaper, it might be something I'd consider trying. I'm still tempted but I'm really not sure it's something that I'm tempted enough by to spend £80 on them! Sadly I'm not made of money...
		
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There is a significant cost to manufacture the material (it is made in the UK) and we are a business with overheads like any other business. 

£80 in the great scheme of owning and managing a horse is very little. Especially when you see what these bands do. 

One of the very largest distributors was pushing us to make them £139.99 per pair - we resisted. Our aim is to provide a solution that is available to most that own a horse.


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## Matt at streamz (15 September 2014)

acorn92x said:



			This. People didn't talk me out of it, I felt that it was a lot of money to spend when the product might not necessarily work and I wasn't prepared to spend that much on something which had been tried on a relatively small number of horses. I know the results in a lot of cases have been positive but if there was to be a money back guarantee if there were not results, it is something I would consider trying.
		
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Ok and I again understand that attitude and would most likely be the same. People who have asked have got this; and we were saying this at Hickstead if you met us there. 

To eat an egg, you must break the shell.


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## acorn92x (15 September 2014)

Matt at streamz said:



			Well we respect that and understand.

There is a significant cost to manufacture the material (it is made in the UK) and we are a business with overheads like any other business. £80 in the great scheme of owning and managing a horse is very little! One of the very largest distributors was pushing us to make them £139.99 per pair - we resisted. Our aim was to provide a solution to that is available to most that own a horse.
		
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I appreciate your honesty here and the fact that you have be very straight about the tests etc that the bands have undergone does make me more inclined to give them a go. £139.99 is quite frankly a ridiculous sum of money and I understand the need for your business to make money like any other. I know owning horses is expensive business and £80 is a reasonable sum if the product works but again, it's the lack of testing that stops me from investing. At the moment anyway - I get paid on Wednesday so who knows what might happen! This message does lack a direct focus and is beginning to ramble so Matt, I do appreciate your understanding and very honest posts!


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## jojo5 (15 September 2014)

Hi Matt - can I ask - does the money back guarantee extend to Youstreamz?  I have an arthritic condition which leads to painful joints and headaches and would love not to take so many painkillers.  However, I am a little sceptical about this product's efficacy in my case - other products such as magnets have not worked.  If by any chance your product worked for me, I would be only too happy to endorse it anywhere, but would also like to know that I could be reimbursed if it did not work.  Am happy to message you with private contact details as necessary.


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## PStarfish (15 September 2014)

Being curious I have just taken a look. Whether it works or not, the main thing that struck me was that you could not see what you are buying - no images of the bands themselves (unless I am missing something). Might be worth some images on your website.


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## blitznbobs (15 September 2014)

Tbh I think it's snake oil but I think the same about magnets and lots of people swear by those ... If you don't believe in them don't buy them... I'd love to know the physiology of their mode of action and where is your evidence published? I'd like to read it... Then I can make a more educated view than - it works cos we say it works... I have opinions but evidence can change my opinion...

Ps a clinical trial doesn't have to cost much all you need is your bands some horses with sore joints and some dummy bands... And a couple of blood tests in the grand scheme of things not much money ...


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## ihatework (15 September 2014)

blitznbobs said:



			Tbh I think it's snake oil but I think the same about magnets and lots of people swear by those ... If you don't believe in them don't buy them... I'd love to know the physiology of their mode of action and where is your evidence published? I'd like to read it... Then I can make a more educated view than - it works cos we say it works... I have opinions but evidence can change my opinion...

Ps a clinical trial doesn't have to cost much all you need is your bands some horses with sore joints and some dummy bands... And a couple of blood tests in the grand scheme of things not much money ...
		
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I think you would be surprised at how much even a relatively small clinical trial would cost (a credible trial that is!)


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## Matt at streamz (15 September 2014)

jojo5 said:



			Hi Matt - can I ask - does the money back guarantee extend to Youstreamz?  I have an arthritic condition which leads to painful joints and headaches and would love not to take so many painkillers.  However, I am a little sceptical about this product's efficacy in my case - other products such as magnets have not worked.  If by any chance your product worked for me, I would be only too happy to endorse it anywhere, but would also like to know that I could be reimbursed if it did not work.  Am happy to message you with private contact details as necessary.
		
Click to expand...

Yes, as i say it is not a "standard protocol" but i would be happy to authorise a return if you do not receive any benefit.... if you do buy one then drop me an email matt(at)streamz-global.com with the reference number and i'll put it on our CRM system... Good luck and thanks for being open minded


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## blitznbobs (15 September 2014)

ihatework said:



			I think you would be surprised at how much even a relatively small clinical trial would cost (a credible trial that is!)
		
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And the publish evidence is published where?


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## Matt at streamz (15 September 2014)

blitznbobs said:



			Tbh I think it's snake oil but I think the same about magnets and lots of people swear by those ... If you don't believe in them don't buy them... I'd love to know the physiology of their mode of action and where is your evidence published? I'd like to read it... Then I can make a more educated view than - it works cos we say it works... I have opinions but evidence can change my opinion...

Ps a clinical trial doesn't have to cost much all you need is your bands some horses with sore joints and some dummy bands... And a couple of blood tests in the grand scheme of things not much money ...
		
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I agree; if someone doesnt believe then we fully respect that. 

You are (unfortunately) incorrect with your "all you need is" comment. If only it was that easy. A clinical trial is a particular type of clinical research that compares one treatment with another. To be accepted as 'clinically approved' we must work with a registered/authorised research organisation. We cannot do a clinical trial ourselves. We can do 'field/study trials' ourselves which we have done and continue to do.  

Here is one we did on 40 horses with inflammation/mobility issues. All of these are on FB so if you have any questions aim it at our FB page and the owners will hopefully give you the answers...
https://www.quicksurveys.com/s/n6LFd5

We are working with various organisations such as the Eden Project and FERA to establish clinical studies with what impact the bands have on plants. We are in consultation with NICE regarding clinical trials with the NHS on our human band, and have just established routes to do the same with horses. As i say in previous posts, we are trying, and we are making progress - but, this takes time, money and patience. 

Blood tests do not show up any clinical evidence, we would need to test on a molecular level. The MOST IMPORTANT thing for us to prove from the start was "do they work?".... the unanimous answer is YES.


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## jojo5 (15 September 2014)

Matt - thanks for getting back to me and for offering the money back guarantee. I am going to private message you from this forum with my email address, and a couple of other questions.


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## ihatework (15 September 2014)

blitznbobs said:



			And the publish evidence is published where?
		
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Sorry, I don't understand your question to me in the context it was posted.


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## blitznbobs (15 September 2014)

Sorry it wasn't directed at u


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## Matt at streamz (15 September 2014)

PStarfish said:



			Being curious I have just taken a look. Whether it works or not, the main thing that struck me was that you could not see what you are buying - no images of the bands themselves (unless I am missing something). Might be worth some images on your website.
		
Click to expand...

VERY TRUE - how ridiculous... thank you. 
PS.. they look great! (see facebook)


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## Matt at streamz (15 September 2014)

blitznbobs said:



			And the publish evidence is published where?
		
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Published via Toluna i believe... ? I will ask my colleagues.


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## JFTDWS (15 September 2014)

Beausmate said:



			Where's JFTD when you need her?
		
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I've been out photo-ing all day.  This thread hurts my head.

Placebo effect.  Regresssion to the mean.  Look it up, people 

If companies like this want to be taken seriously by the scientific industry, perhaps they could consider actually attempting not to make claims of efficacy without a decent double blind, having reasonable rationale behind their product (not mind numbing pseudo-science, ta) and not fall into the painfully common trap of declaring something is "natural" to imply it has no side effects.  Where do you think NSAIDs came from originally anyway?  This is one of my biggest pet hates - drives me crackers!

#despair


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## JFTDWS (15 September 2014)

Matt at streamz said:



			Blood tests do not show up any clinical evidence, we would need to test on a molecular level. The MOST IMPORTANT thing for us to prove from the start was "do they work?".... the unanimous answer is YES.
		
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1.  The most important question you need to answer first is that they are safe.  That's the first rule of treatment - prove it won't accidentally have a negative effect.  Safety, then efficacy.  And if you claim it can have an effect, it stands to reason it is at least potentially possible for it to have a detrimental effect - overdosing, perhaps?

2.  Blood tests include loads of molecular tests.  Even routine bloods test for certain molecules...  Perhaps you mean atomic?  Are you claiming your bands change molecules?  Or amounts of molecules?  Or the make up of molecules?  Oh lordy, just seen the bit about the cyclotron...  That's me out!


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## Matt at streamz (16 September 2014)

FINAL THOUGHTS

As a successful product proven to help many professional and non-competing horses (including with equestrian charities) we duly 'bow out' of this post...

I am happy to answer any questions but have no motivation to assist any negatively minded individuals, with very little understanding, and certainly NO ACTUAL BASIS TO DISCUSS about our product. We are a reputable business and if anyone who would like to know or discuss anything with us then feel free to call our office and talk to one of our team....Facebook says it all; do you see any negative posts or comments about the bands? Nope - because they ACTUALLY WORK!!!  

Some people: get a life, actually make a difference, and do something useful.


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## cptrayes (16 September 2014)

Trouble is Matt, you haven't PROVEN anything and its disingenuous to claim that you have until you have.  You have some anecdotal evidence, you have no proof.


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## undergroundoli (16 September 2014)

Someone asked if the placebo effect works even if you are skeptical. 

In Bad Science, which I heartily recommend to people, like me, who have arts backgrounds and brains, the author discusses the placebo effect and quotes research that strongly suggests it works no matter how sceptical you are. IIRC the studies used pills. The greater the intervention the stronger the placebo effect is (fake operations have fantastic success rates). I imagine most sceptics would see a pair of rubber bands as a pretty minor intervention. 

Matt I'd be really interested in how you blinded your study with the 40 horses and how you decided which horses where in the two groups.


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## Copperpot (16 September 2014)

I would try them for the horses tbh. I spend a fortune on supplements, hock injections and tildren so what's £80 as a punt to see if they help. I guess if you don't try, you don't know. 

When the horses were stabled I used magnetic boots for one that got filled legs with success. 

If people want to use them and feel they help, then good for them. For those that don't want to, don't. Simples.


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## ester (16 September 2014)

I don't like the well if it isn't hurting anyone and only costing ££ attitude tbh. I had to move away from people having a mojo conversation at west wilts last Friday along the lines of well it is only £30 so if it doesn't work ... I sort of see that £30 as unfairly gained by the company using sales and marketing spiel for a product which doesn't work. 

The website information and basic errors do make me worry that about the scientific understanding of the people currently involved in the company and as JFTD says safety should always be the number 1 concern.


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## Tiddlypom (16 September 2014)

Matt at streamz said:



			Some people: get a life, actually make a difference, and do something useful.
		
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As you seem to have so poor a knowledge of the 'science' behind your product, I assume that you are more of a marketing bod?

Please can I pass on a little tip. Do not p1ss off any potential customers reading this with smart @rse comments like this. Very unprofessional, and also very revealing.


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## Swirlymurphy (16 September 2014)

Tiddlypom said:



			As you seem to have so poor a knowledge of the 'science' behind your product, I assume that you are more of a marketing bod?

Please can I pass on a little tip. Do not p1ss off any potential customers reading this with smart @rse comments like this. Very unprofessional, and also very revealing.
		
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This.  Without a doubt.


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## JFTDWS (16 September 2014)

Matt at streamz said:



			FINAL THOUGHTS

As a successful product proven to help many professional and non-competing horses (including with equestrian charities) we duly 'bow out' of this post...

I am happy to answer any questions but have no motivation to assist any negatively minded individuals, with very little understanding, and certainly NO ACTUAL BASIS TO DISCUSS about our product. We are a reputable business and if anyone who would like to know or discuss anything with us then feel free to call our office and talk to one of our team....Facebook says it all; do you see any negative posts or comments about the bands? Nope - because they ACTUALLY WORK!!!  

Some people: get a life, actually make a difference, and do something useful.
		
Click to expand...

Firstly, please stop making claims you cannot support.  There are no published, peer reviewed, double blind trials, therefore you have no basis for that claim beyond anecdotal evidence.  And the plural of anecdotes is not data.

Secondly, I would be careful who you are suggesting has "little understanding".  I'm fairly willing to bet Ester and I have at least one bioscience degree more than you apiece and god knows how many years of experience in this field between us.  If you claim to have made a wristband which acts like a cyclotron, I suggest you revisit your high school physics and question your own understanding of your "product".

Thirdly, facebook is not a well respected medium through which to publish scientific data.  

Fourthly, who controls what is posted on your facebook page?  I run pages and I know that I have the power to delete spam, irrelevant or undesirable posts, as do most companies who use social media.  #shwmaegate

Finally, I have a life, I make many differences to other people's lives in the course of it (sometimes they're even positive) and I do many useful things.  Debunking bad science is one of those things


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## Matt at streamz (16 September 2014)

JFTD said:



			Firstly, please stop making claims you cannot support.  There are no published, peer reviewed, double blind trials, therefore you have no basis for that claim beyond anecdotal evidence.  And the plural of anecdotes is not data.

Secondly, I would be careful who you are suggesting has "little understanding".  I'm fairly willing to bet Ester and I have at least one bioscience degree more than you apiece and god knows how many years of experience in this field between us.  If you claim to have made a wristband which acts like a cyclotron, I suggest you revisit your high school physics and question your own understanding of your "product".

Thirdly, facebook is not a well respected medium through which to publish scientific data.  

Fourthly, who controls what is posted on your facebook page?  I run pages and I know that I have the power to delete spam, irrelevant or undesirable posts, as do most companies who use social media.  #shwmaegate

Finally, I have a life, I make many differences to other people's lives in the course of it (sometimes they're even positive) and I do many useful things.  Debunking bad science is one of those things 

Click to expand...



None of these relate to the original post.


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## cptrayes (16 September 2014)

Matt at streamz said:



			I see the results everyday - and plants dont get placebo (scientific proof that the material increases cell growth by 21.7% ADF, cellulose, and ADL, lignin.
		
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Yes they do unless there is no human intervention in looking after those plans at all, or the humans are in a double blind trial.

There's a wonderful study showing how mastitis in cows is reduced by homeopathy. Trouble is, it can't be repeated if the farmers don't know which cows are on it and which aren't.


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## ester (16 September 2014)

Matt at streamz said:



			None of these relate to the original post.
		
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Threads do tend to evolve and develop on here, that is rather the point. More questions come up, more discussions happen - generally the nature of an internet forum.


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## Matt at streamz (16 September 2014)

Swirlymurphy said:



			This.  Without a doubt.
		
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Personal attacks on me are not the purpose of H&H public forum.


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## cptrayes (16 September 2014)

Matt at streamz said:



			Personal attacks on me are not the purpose of H&H public forum.
		
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Oh Matt. If I had any respect for you or your product it's certainly gone now. That comment was made in response to you telling sceptics like me to 'get a life'. There has been not one word of personal attack against you, just the lack of professionalism in your insulting post.

While I'm here, please remove the claim that 100% of horse owners recommend your product from your site, it is not true.

And you might also like to correct 'arterial fibrillation', the correct term is 'atrial fibrillation'.


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## hairycob (16 September 2014)

I don't any personal attacks on you, just knowledgable people questioning the basis of your marketing.


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## blitznbobs (16 September 2014)

What's that bloke who writes that bad science blog?? Can't remember his name...


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## ester (16 September 2014)

Ben Goldacre, there is also DC's improbable science http://www.dcscience.net/ written by David Colquhoun.


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## Matt at streamz (16 September 2014)

cptrayes said:



			Oh Matt. If I had any respect for you or your product it's certainly gone now. That comment was made in response to you telling sceptics like me to 'get a life'. There has been not one word of personal attack against you, just the lack of professionalism in your insulting post.

While I'm here, please remove the claim that 100% of horse owners recommend your product from your site, it is not true.

And you might also like to correct 'arterial fibrillation', the correct term is 'atrial fibrillation'.
		
Click to expand...

"Some people: get a life, actually make a difference, and do something useful." - Not aimed at anyone in particular. 

It is a real shame the sourness of this post. 

18 months ago I was running my own business in the corporate world: My godfather asked me to help launch his invention. I didnt believe. I tried a band on my ankle. My knee pain went. So.... I got a life, I started to make a difference, and I did something useful. Whilst you guys slate me and my company on this forum we receive emails of thanks from people, facebook messages supporting us, and so on. 

I wish you all the luck and hope that one day your scepticism will turn more to intrigue. 

PS - thanks for pointing out the typo and noted about 100%, slightly vague i agree. It should say, '100% of the people within our study group recommend the bands'  

I would assume if they made your leg grow back you wouldnt give them a go now anyway.. real shame.


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## JFTDWS (16 September 2014)

Matt at streamz said:



			None of these relate to the original post.
		
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But they relate entirely to your posts on this thread, and the debate over the veracity of your claims of efficacy definitely relates to the OP, and anyone tempted to try them.



Matt at streamz said:



			It is a real shame the sourness of this post. 
...
I would assume if they made your leg grow back you wouldnt give them a go now anyway.. real shame.
		
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The only sourness here is coming from your posts I'm afraid.  

I would be very concerned if my leg grew back.  In fact, it would probably get in the way a bit if one did - most people find it easier with just two...


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## cptrayes (16 September 2014)

Matt at streamz said:



			"Some people: get a life, actually make a difference, and do something useful." - Not aimed at anyone in particular. 

It is a real shame the sourness of this post. 

18 months ago I was running my own business in the corporate world: My godfather asked me to help launch his invention. I didnt believe. I tried a band on my ankle. My knee pain went. So.... I got a life, I started to make a difference, and I did something useful. Whilst you guys slate me and my company on this forum we receive emails of thanks from people, facebook messages supporting us, and so on. 

I wish you all the luck and hope that one day your scepticism will turn more to intrigue. 

PS - thanks for pointing out the typo and noted about 100%, slightly vague i agree. It should say, '100% of the people within our study group recommend the bands'  

I would assume if they made your leg grow back you wouldnt give them a go now anyway.. real shame.
		
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And now childishness added to lack of professionalism.

I don't need to get a life Matt, but you have a serious need of some customer relations, marketing and business start up training.


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## Matt at streamz (16 September 2014)

cptrayes said:



			And now childishness added to lack of professionalism.

I don't need to get a life Matt, but you have a serious need of some customer relations, marketing and business start up training.
		
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Thanks. I was being sincere actually.


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## Swirlymurphy (16 September 2014)

Matt at streamz said:



			I was really intrigued until I saw your response when challenged on the science.  I remain intrigued but sceptical and very much look forward to seeing future scientific evidence as I am very open minded as to how these things work.  I do wish you all the best with your business and would urge you to see the responses on here as they were intended - not as personal attacks but as genuine enquiries on the science behind the claims for which you cannot berate them.
		
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## Matt at streamz (16 September 2014)

Swirlymurphy said:



			I was really intrigued until I saw your response when challenged on the science.  I remain intrigued but sceptical and very much look forward to seeing future scientific evidence as I am very open minded as to how these things work.  I do wish you all the best with your business and would urge you to see the responses on here as they were intended - not as personal attacks but as genuine enquiries on the science behind the claims for which you cannot berate them.
		
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Thank you and point taken. 

I am NOT a scientist and not any any stage have said anything to the contrary. We are paying organisations to carry out these trials and I am sure that if i asked their scientists are not sitting on forums like this. (with how much they charge I certainly hope not!) Someone involved in marketing or sales, or in my case someone who cares about their business and all its existing partners, would.  

And to cap the day off nicely: (Because whatever anyone says RESULTS are the most important thing to people that own the horse) ....The original post which was a genuine request for advice has today purchased the bands. I have asked for them to feedback their results so watch this space... 

Have a nice evening and let me know if you want to try a band on yourself (my shout)


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## Sebastian (16 September 2014)

JFTD said:



			Firstly, please stop making claims you cannot support.  There are no published, peer reviewed, double blind trials, therefore you have no basis for that claim beyond anecdotal evidence.  And the plural of anecdotes is not data.

Secondly, I would be careful who you are suggesting has "little understanding".  I'm fairly willing to bet Ester and I have at least one bioscience degree more than you apiece and god knows how many years of experience in this field between us.  If you claim to have made a wristband which acts like a cyclotron, I suggest you revisit your high school physics and question your own understanding of your "product".

Thirdly, facebook is not a well respected medium through which to publish scientific data.  

Fourthly, who controls what is posted on your facebook page?  I run pages and I know that I have the power to delete spam, irrelevant or undesirable posts, as do most companies who use social media.  #shwmaegate

Finally, I have a life, I make many differences to other people's lives in the course of it (sometimes they're even positive) and I do many useful things.  Debunking bad science is one of those things 

Click to expand...

*applause*


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## JFTDWS (16 September 2014)

Sebastian said:



			*applause*
		
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*Takes bow*


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## Swirlymurphy (17 September 2014)

Matt at streamz said:



			Thank you and point taken. 

I am NOT a scientist and not any any stage have said anything to the contrary. We are paying organisations to carry out these trials and I am sure that if i asked their scientists are not sitting on forums like this. (with how much they charge I certainly hope not!) Someone involved in marketing or sales, or in my case someone who cares about their business and all its existing partners, would.  

And to cap the day off nicely: (Because whatever anyone says RESULTS are the most important thing to people that own the horse) ....The original post which was a genuine request for advice has today purchased the bands. I have asked for them to feedback their results so watch this space... 

Have a nice evening and let me know if you want to try a band on yourself (my shout)
		
Click to expand...

Thank you for the offer and I will send you a PM.


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## nonono (17 September 2014)

acorn92x said:



http://www.streamz-global.com/equ-streamz/ 

Has anyone brought/used/trialled or been given a pair of these bands? I'm seriously tempted to buy them for my girl (No ailments as such, just a small splint on her near fore) but the outlay is quite large for something that might not be even remotely helpful! 

I've been following the Facebook and Twitter pages that are run by Equ Streamz with keen interest and they seem to have had nothing but rave reviews so I'm now thinking they could be a worthwhile investment! 

I went and spoke to the team at the Royal International Horse Show at Hickstead last Friday and they were tremendously helpful and I keep asking myself why I just didn't buy a pair there and then (They had 20% off them too!), although my OH being a bit bored and fracious after having to poke up with me getting excited over things he didn't have the foggiest idea about all day may have had something to do with it...

ANYWAY! Have any of you guys had exeprience with these, and if so, do you care to share whether they have been positive before I bite the bullet and invest? 

Click to expand...

I bought a pair of these bands at Hickstead after my mum was fortunate enough to be allowed to trial one of these bands overnight (we were at Hickstead for 2 days) - she noticed a difference in herself (has Lymphedema) overnight so that reassured me enough that I should splash out and buy a pair for my horse (21 year old and stiff).

I used them on myself for a week before passing them on to my horse and they greatly improved my mobility in the time that I spent using them.

Now my horse wears them he has increased mobility, reduced swelling in his hocks, more energy, takes less time to warm up and seems much better in himself in general.  I am so pleased that I bought a pair.

Whatever the science behind them is really of no great interest to me as I own a pair and they WORK!  There is nothing else that changed in my horses routine other than the addition of the bands so it absolutely has to be down to the use of them.

Anyone wants to ask me anything about my experience of the bands then please feel free to comment/message.  I do find it slightly unfair if anyone chooses to criticise them unless they have actually tried them on themselves or their horses.


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## ester (17 September 2014)

The scientists' issue with all of that is that it could all be down to your perception. That is fine but I find it unfair that people may be profiting from that without good scientific evidence to back it up - by which I am not talking full blown clinical trials a publication in even the lowest rated of scientific journals would do and at least people would then know the full methodology used and the results rather than what they pick and choose to include in their marketing.


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## Tiddlypom (17 September 2014)

nonono said:



			Whatever the science behind them is really of no great interest to me as I own a pair and they WORK!  There is nothing else that changed in my horses routine other than the addition of the bands so it absolutely has to be down to the use of them.

Anyone wants to ask me anything about my experience of the bands then please feel free to comment/message.  I do find it slightly unfair if anyone chooses to criticise them unless they have actually tried them on themselves or their horses.
		
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Glad that your horse seems to have improved since wearing these bands. Whether or not the bands were in any way responsible for the improvement, is another matter!

Despite having a scientific background, I am a sucker for trying out something new and unproven based on 'recommendations' . I first heard of the Equ-Streamz when it was endorsed by an HHO blogger I follow. I believe that the blogger has a science degree, so I followed the link provided to the product website. I was minded, at that time, to purchase a pair of the bands.

Unfortunately, the website was so poor (as previously mentioned, there is not even a photo of the product on it!), and the description of the bands and the science behind them so sparse, that I did not proceed further. 

I thought no further of it until this thread popped up, which has confirmed my initial misgivings.


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## nonono (17 September 2014)

Tiddlypom said:



			Glad that your horse seems to have improved since wearing these bands. Whether or not the bands were in any way responsible for the improvement, is another matter!

Trust me, the bands are most definitely fully responsible for this horses improvement, unless some magic fairy has sent him some kind of potion that he hasn't told me about ;-) - I battled for years to try to get him right but never found a product to help him to this extent - whatever they are made from and whatever they do they have improved his well being, best £80 I ever spent 

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## JFTDWS (17 September 2014)

I repeat: placebo effect, regression to the mean.  People are welcome to spend their money how they choose, but I do have a major issue with companies who take people's money by making unsubstantiated claims and perpetuating bizarre pseudoscience.  I don't need to try the bands to know that this is an issue in this case.


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## Blackopal (17 September 2014)

Saw my chiropractor yesterday as I do every 2 months. I have only worn my band since i saw him last so. Incidentally he could tell the difference in the alignment of my pelvis to what it normally is after 2 months, despite me having had a REALLY stressful period which normally makes me worse than normal. 

His words to me were ' as a scientist I am interested in the science of it, as a practitioner I say that if it works for you then keep wearing it' . 

And my farrier has confirmed that our mares splint is indeed getting smaller, she has worn hers as long as I have used mine so 2 months........

I also use Bioflow boots which were MUCH more expensive to buy ........


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## Matt at streamz (17 September 2014)

nonono said:



			I bought a pair of these bands at Hickstead after my mum was fortunate enough to be allowed to trial one of these bands overnight (we were at Hickstead for 2 days) - she noticed a difference in herself (has Lymphedema) overnight so that reassured me enough that I should splash out and buy a pair for my horse (21 year old and stiff).

I used them on myself for a week before passing them on to my horse and they greatly improved my mobility in the time that I spent using them.

Now my horse wears them he has increased mobility, reduced swelling in his hocks, more energy, takes less time to warm up and seems much better in himself in general.  I am so pleased that I bought a pair.

Whatever the science behind them is really of no great interest to me as I own a pair and they WORK!  There is nothing else that changed in my horses routine other than the addition of the bands so it absolutely has to be down to the use of them.

Anyone wants to ask me anything about my experience of the bands then please feel free to comment/message.  I do find it slightly unfair if anyone chooses to criticise them unless they have actually tried them on themselves or their horses.
		
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Hi nonono, thank you for taking the time to share that. I remember meeting you at Hickstead as i remember your mum being so impressed and dragging you to us the next day. Delighted to hear the bands have helped you, Trevor Breen who won The Derby and then the Hickstead 6-7 yr Championship uses the band (as does his wife, his horses, and the old lodge who own some of his horses). Its lovely to hear so many lovely reports so thanks again.  

Keep in touch and please do say hi on Facebook


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## blitznbobs (17 September 2014)

Blackopal said:



			Saw my chiropractor yesterday as I do every 2 months. I have only worn my band since i saw him last so. Incidentally he could tell the difference in the alignment of my pelvis to what it normally is after 2 months, despite me having had a REALLY stressful period which normally makes me worse than normal. 

His words to me were ' as a scientist I am interested in the science of it, as a practitioner I say that if it works for you then keep wearing it' . 

And my farrier has confirmed that our mares splint is indeed getting smaller, she has worn hers as long as I have used mine so 2 months........

I also use Bioflow boots which were MUCH more expensive to buy ........
		
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That assumes that a chiropractor is a scientist.. But as a doctor I would say to a patient if eating a cube of yellow jelly a day works for your symptoms keep doing it. It does no harm so why not?? Doesn't mean I don't think it's placebo effect. Placebo (and norcebo for that matter ) are not to be sniffed at they can have strong effects in their own right... Sometimes placebo really IS the best medicine... It annoys be that it is seen as unethical to prescribe them in this country ...


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## JFTDWS (17 September 2014)

blitznbobs said:



			That assumes that a chiropractor is a scientist.
		
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I didn't like to say that...  But, well.  I did laugh.


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## Blackopal (17 September 2014)

he has got a science degree actually


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## JFTDWS (17 September 2014)

Blackopal said:



			he has got a science degree actually 

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A degree does not a scientist make!


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## Blackopal (17 September 2014)

no, but assuming a chiropractor can't also be a scientist is a little narrow minded IMO. 

And quite honestly, I don't understand all the hate for this product. Lots of people use Bioflow boots and rugs, Equlibrium products and other makes........


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## Meowy Catkin (17 September 2014)

Blackopal, you don't know that it's the band that is reducing the size of the splint. My gelding had a splint that reabsorbed over the summer. Now I did start putting his fly mask on daily at the beginning of the summer, so you could (wrongly) conclude that the fly mask caused the splint to go. 

What you need is a large group of horses (100's) with splints and they are randomly assigned to two groups. One group wears placebo bands and the other group wears E-S bands. It's vital that it is not revealed which horses have the real thing until the end of the study. X-rays before and after would also be good.


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## Blackopal (17 September 2014)

and I thought HorseGossip was bad!!!!!!!!!!


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## JFTDWS (17 September 2014)

Blackopal said:



			no, but assuming a chiropractor can't also be a scientist is a little narrow minded IMO.
		
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The trouble with having an open mind is that anyone can walk right in and set up shop.  I prefer to have a few hurdles on the way in, and a moat.  Keeps the riff raff out


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## Meowy Catkin (17 September 2014)

Question for the scientists. 

Lets stick to my magic fly mask.  If I put my gelding's fly mask on my mare who is getting a little stiff these days and I noticed that she looked less stiff while wearing it, what's going on? 

It can't be the placebo effect working on her (even if I tell her that the fly mask will make her feel better, she sadly won't understand me), so is it coincidence, or my faulty observation IE I believe that the fly mask will ease her stiffness, so it appears to me that it does?


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## JFTDWS (17 September 2014)

Faracat said:



			It can't be the placebo effect working on her (even if I tell her that the fly mask will make her feel better, she sadly won't understand me), so is it coincidence, or my faulty observation IE I believe that the fly mask will ease her stiffness, so it appears to me that it does?
		
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It might be that you perceive a difference which isn't empirically there (this is why trials should be double blind, otherwise medical staff report changes that aren't really there!), or it might be that your mare was slightly stiffer (been hooning in the field a bit at harvest time, exciting tractors maybe) and you put the fly mask on.  Harvest ends, no tractors, mare is stiff so she takes it easier.  Mare's condition improves - coinkydink.  It may also reflect that the mare has had a couple of bad days - long standing conditions do fluctuate a little sometimes.  It is statistically likely that, unless her condition has actually worsened, the following day (after you put the magic mask on because she looked so sore the previous day) she will feel better because that's what fluctuation is all about...


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## Meowy Catkin (17 September 2014)

Thanks for taking the time to answer JFTD.


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## JFTDWS (17 September 2014)

Faracat said:



			Thanks for taking the time to answer JFTD. 

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Always happy to rant science at people


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## Matt at streamz (17 September 2014)

blitznbobs said:



			That assumes that a chiropractor is a scientist.. But as a doctor I would say to a patient if eating a cube of yellow jelly a day works for your symptoms keep doing it. It does no harm so why not?? Doesn't mean I don't think it's placebo effect. Placebo (and norcebo for that matter ) are not to be sniffed at they can have strong effects in their own right... Sometimes placebo really IS the best medicine... It annoys be that it is seen as unethical to prescribe them in this country ...
		
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We have all learned that it annoys you and it annoys me that I am unable to drop the analysis on your lap that would satisfy you. (and i mean that with sincerity) 

The ethics behind placebo is very true, and each to their own i suppose - Before you feel I disagree, i do in fact recognise the importance of placebo when it comes to satisfying some people and now we have got to where we are placebo (blind) trials are being carried out humans and horses, independently. I think the issues lies in the fact that an element of deception is thrown into the mix. 

When we first ran trials we were looking to establish a basis of what to run clinical trials on. The bands help with so many things; not all of which can be tested under clinical conditions.

The two universities/colleges we are working with to get the EQU bands done needed to establish exactly what to run trials on; the bands have shown results from inflammation reduction, to hoof recovery and even grass sickness. After reviewing the field results over the past few months they settled on 'stifle osteochondrosis' as one study, and horses not on NSAID medication with 'colic' as another. It is apparently easier for them to assess these parameters in horses with acute medical conditions (e.g. colic) because these parameters change much more rapidly in these horses. For instance, they will be measuring the calcium, magnesium, potassium, sodium, chloride as well as oncotic pressure (as a surrogate marker of colloid balance) and expect to see more dramatic changes in horses with colic. The human bands are far more complicated to run in a clinical/placebo environment, but it is expected that the studies will focus on wound and broken bone recovery as this has shown to be of significant interest. 

It is a debated subject.


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## Matt at streamz (17 September 2014)

Blackopal said:



			and I thought HorseGossip was bad!!!!!!!!!!
		
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Dont worry - no need to battle with this - I do not want you to associate our product with this. Thank you SO MUCH for posting and keep in touch.


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## JFTDWS (17 September 2014)

Matt at streamz said:



			If a world respected farrier champion comments on "how is there so much growth" to then be told, "its been wearing these bands" - case after case after case... placebo starts to be questioned.  
Professional show jumpers, the worlds best, saying their horses fetlocks do not swell after competing and jumping 3 stride 1.6 jumps easier than ever before. Sophie wells (para olympic gold medalist) saying her horses point better and are getting better results since wearing the bands. The grand national winning trainer Harvey Smith saying the horses are less stiff on the gallops and getting additional strides in.  

After a while it becomes obvious.

The 'placebo effect' is a ubiquitous phenomenon founded on psychology. As is cognitive dissonance.
		
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If trained medical professionals are subject to the placebo effect - and they are, this is why non-double blind trials are not considered worthwhile in the scientific community - I'm unsure why you think showjumpers and farriers are somehow immune to its effects.  

The placebo effect is a wondrous, complex phenomenon.  It is incredibly well documented, and yes it is ubiquitous.  And that is why no amount of anecdotal reports from individuals (be they international showjumpers, farriers, chiros or just some chap off the street) constitute scientifically respectable data.


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## JFTDWS (17 September 2014)

Seems like someone has been less than honest in their postlings...  Not that I'm gloating.  Oh no.  I wouldn't do that...


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## Dr David Marlin (17 September 2014)

Just for the purposes of clarity in this thread as my name has been mentioned, I am a physiologist not a vet. I currently hold the position of Performance Advisor to British Endurance. 

I have not seen the product being discussed. I have not been shown data on the product. I have no formal arrangement of any kind with the company that is marketing this product.

I hope that clarifies my position. 

David


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## Dr David Marlin (17 September 2014)

JFTD said:



			If trained medical professionals are subject to the placebo effect - and they are, this is why non-double blind trials are not considered worthwhile in the scientific community - I'm unsure why you think showjumpers and farriers are somehow immune to its effects.  

The placebo effect is a wondrous, complex phenomenon.  It is incredibly well documented, and yes it is ubiquitous.  And that is why no amount of anecdotal reports from individuals (be they international showjumpers, farriers, chiros or just some chap off the street) constitute scientifically respectable data.
		
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I'm new to this forum and was looking for the "LIKE" button, but guess I just need to say I LIKE this comment! David


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## Sophiewells (17 September 2014)

Yes I have used these, initially I was sceptical, as probably most people are. I used them on myself first to see if I found a difference. I have a lot of nerve problems in my legs, and often get quite a lot of nerve pain. Which can often stay through the night and stop me sleeping. However since I've started using them you streamz, even if I'm having a bad day with the pain, once I put the band, the recovery is much better. And feel much more effective in the morning, despite feeling weak the next day before using them.
I then started to use them on my
Horses, more if they were having problems. I've seen more than a few improvements in several horses wearing the bands, so I can only say from experience that they have helped and have been worth it.
I'm not sure how people can speak negatively of any product they have not tried. 
I would just say to give it a go....and you don't want to spend the money on equ streamz, why not try the human version which is half the price, and if you find a result, then spend the money on the horses....


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## JFTDWS (17 September 2014)

Dr David Marlin said:



			I'm new to this forum and was looking for the "LIKE" button, but guess I just need to say I LIKE this comment! David
		
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Thanks!  We don't have a like button, but always appreciate the comment.  Glad you've appeared on here to clarify the situation.


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## ester (17 September 2014)

Dr David Marlin said:



			I'm new to this forum and was looking for the "LIKE" button, but guess I just need to say I LIKE this comment! David
		
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We tend to get JFTD to comment as it save typing and we can just agree 

Welcome David, sorry it was under such circumstances!


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## JFTDWS (17 September 2014)

ester said:



			We tend to get JFTD to comment as it save typing and we can just agree 

Welcome David, sorry it was under such circumstances!
		
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Ach you'll give me a big head...  Or maybe that's closing the stable door after that big, fat hairy cob has bolted...

Agreed - welcome to the forum.


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## Capriole (17 September 2014)

I saw on the FB page that he is protesting about the 'fairness' of being banned from the forum that shall not be named for promoting his product.  No mention of the fake name dropping though, that I could see.


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## ester (17 September 2014)

JFTD said:



			Ach you'll give me a big head...  Or maybe that's closing the stable door after that big, fat hairy cob has bolted...

Agreed - welcome to the forum.
		
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Least you didn't get your head in front of a flying hoof this week . I'm amazed how many people have made a face when I said I'd take the stitches out myself .

oops changed the subject again!


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## Capriole (17 September 2014)

ester said:



			... I'm amazed how many people have made a face when I said I'd take the stitches out myself .
...
		
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Much like the face I'm pulling now I expect, lol.  Ick.  I had the stitches out of my leg the other week and it was more unpleasant than I ever expected.  I gave a mental apology to the mare I was previously telling not to be a big baby when she was having caslicks sutures removed.


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## joycec (17 September 2014)

For people who are comparing this product with magnet therapy, the two are not comparable. There is a huge number of clinical studies of magnet therapy. Everyone knows what is in the magnet products - magnets.

The only thing we know is in this product is neoprene and Velcro. There is no explanation of any kind of what else it contains.  I'm tempted to buy one to cut it open and see what is in it.

After reading all this thread, with the false claims of who is trialling it and the lack of any explanation of how or why it works on the website,  I'm personally convinced that the whole thing is a giant scam working by placebo effect, with genuine changes being a result of either regression to the mean or increased confidence in the rider to push the horse to do more. 

I don't know whether to laugh or be shocked at the gullibility of people who say 'it reduced the size of a splint' (they almost always reduce in size) or that a horse had one off day competing, got the bands and has gone from strength to strength since (like, what, no improving horse ever had one off day?) etc, etc, ....


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## joycec (18 September 2014)

Matt at streamz said:



			18 months ago I was running my own business in the corporate world: My godfather asked me to help launch his invention.
		
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According to information online about Matthew Campbell, director of Streamz, 18 months ago you were the 33 year old Sales Manager for a tiny Brighton outfit called Usedtelecoms Ltd selling recycled telecoms equipment.  Nothing wrong with that at all, it just doesn't sound quite so impressive as giving up a career in the Corporate World to launch your godfather's  invention.


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## TGM (18 September 2014)

joycec said:



			For people who are comparing this product with magnet therapy, the two are not comparable. There is a huge number of clinical studies of magnet therapy. Everyone knows what is in the magnet products - magnets.

The only thing we know is in this product is neoprene and Velcro. There is no explanation of any kind of what else it contains.  I'm tempted to buy one to cut it open and see what is in it.
		
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No need for you to purchase one or cut it open - will take some photos of the bands later to satisfy people's curiosity.  They have an outer casing of neoprene and Velcro, and the 'stuff' inside slides out so the casing can be washed.




			I don't know whether to laugh or be shocked at the gullibility of people who say 'it reduced the size of a splint' (they almost always reduce in size) or that a horse had one off day competing, got the bands and has gone from strength to strength since (like, what, no improving horse ever had one off day?) etc, etc, ....
		
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  That is quite an unfair comment and takes my remark totally out of context.  The OP asked for people's experiences, and as no-one else had offered theirs at that point, I stated our experience and then said *very clearly* that the improvement in the horse's performance and size of his thoroughpins could be down to coincidence but that daughter was keeping the bands on the horse 'just in case'.  I'm not sure how that makes us gullible?  And in my next post, when the OP stated that she wanted to use it on a splint, I advised her to be patient and the splint would probably reduce on it's own accord!


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## philv45 (18 September 2014)

joycec said:



			According to information online about Matthew Campbell, director of Streamz, 18 months ago you were the 33 year old Sales Manager for a tiny Brighton outfit called Usedtelecoms Ltd selling recycled telecoms equipment.  Nothing wrong with that at all, it just doesn't sound quite so impressive as giving up a career in the Corporate World to launch your godfather's  invention.
		
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Unfortunately I have felt compelled to join this post (what an awful experience of Horse and Hound first off) as I was made aware of a post involving usedtelecoms. 

My name is Phil and I own several businesses, including creating usedtelecoms. Your 'research' online is entirely incorrect. Matt worked for me directly for many years. He was responsible for key accounts with our sister company Sabre Telecom (Now West Pier Telecom), such as Sungard Availability Services and Blue Square betting. (Corporate accounts within the 'corporate world') 
Matt left the group, with our full support, to pursue his opportunity with his terminally ill godfather. He did indeed give up a career in the corporate world and was well respected by all his colleagues; some of which now work for him directly. 
Matt. I hope that is an adequate response to some of these nasty accusations regarding your integrity. 

If any of you are keen to establish the authenticity of this message I suggest you contact West Pier Telecom and ask for Steve McManus, technical director who worked for many years with Matt.


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## ester (18 September 2014)

Well if that isn't taking the thread off the original query I don't know what is!


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## JFTDWS (18 September 2014)

Phil, are you not mildly annoyed (at least) that Matt just claimed to have owned your company?  I'm not sure I'd be impressed if an ex-employee claimed to have been running my business   I know you can't respond to this, you seem to have gone very grey at the thought...  Wonder why that could be.

Talk about thread de-railment, Ester!  Face kicking doesn't sound fun - hope you're ok!


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## MyDogIsAnIdiot (18 September 2014)

Well this thread has taken an interesting turn...

I know a rep for a certain well-known band company that uses holograms (  Not the one that's the main topic of this thread though) and even he thinks it's total sh**! Not that it stops him selling them to shops, who then sell them at a huge mark-up to gullible people.


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## Tiddlypom (18 September 2014)

TGM said:



			No need for you to purchase one or cut it open - will take some photos of the bands later to satisfy people's curiosity.  They have an outer casing of neoprene and Velcro, and the 'stuff' inside slides out so the casing can be washed.
		
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Please do post pics of the bands, it would be interesting to see what they look like. The basic premise is that they are comprised of dis similar rubber compounds, isn't it, which are somehow activated after being subjected to an electro magnetic field?

Below is the blurb from the equ streamz website.

_StreamZ products, whether for humans, animals, or plants, contain a 360° dual-layer of StreamZ material. Once the StreamZ rubber compound has set it is then subjected to an electro-magnetic process which creates a continuous energy field within the rubber material known as a Cyclotron effect.

The unique spiraling effect created by StreamZ material speeds charged particles up to a very high energy level, creating the actions of a very powerful magnetic field and a high-frequency electric field. These fields pick-up the ions in the blood and rearrange them into an organized spiraling motion. This spiraling motion (or Cyclotron effect) increases the speed in which ions and minerals are distributed around the system and is the basis of how StreamZ material is thought to positively affect all living systems on a molecular leve_l.

It's a long time since I studied Physics at A level, but back then, rubber was known to be an insulating material. According to OH and son no 1 (senior research scientist and a Masters Physics student respectively), it still is, as far as they know . Quite how a product comprised primarily of an insulating material is supposed to mimic a cyclotron is totally beyond me.


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## acorn92x (18 September 2014)

I really, really regret even starting this tread. 

I asked a simple question and whilst I have received some responses which I would classify as useful, with people bringing up some opinions and first hand experience of the bands, I now feel that the thread has been hijacked and has evolved into a squabbling match with people insulting each other. It seem that people are missing the point of the initial question that I asked and are now no longer interested in responding to this. 

It would be really nice to get back on track with the original question that I asked and I would still be interested to hear responses from people, providing they are constructed in a respectful manner.


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## TGM (18 September 2014)

As requested, here are pics:

This is the outer casing - sorry very hairy and dirty, is worn in the field and could do with a wash:







And the band inside seems to be two layers stuck together - seems smoother and shinier than normal rubber, perhaps akin to the stuff they make fridge magnets out of?  Definitely has magnetic properties as the metal surface the band is photographed against is vertical, and you can see the band is clinging to it.







Hope that helps those who wondered what they looked like!


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## joycec (18 September 2014)

Well that might explain some things. There is plenty of evidence for magnet therapy (increasing blood supply I think)  So if they are magnetic, they may well get some result. But I doubt very much if it's a cyclotron effect spinning minerals in the blood to rebalance them. 

I wonder how they compare price wise with other magnet bands.

Thanks for posting, that was really interesting to see.


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## blitznbobs (18 September 2014)

joycec said:



			Well that might explain some things. There is plenty of evidence for magnet therapy (increasing blood supply I think)  So if they are magnetic, they may well get some result. But I doubt very much if it's a cyclotron effect spinning minerals in the blood to rebalance them. 

I wonder how they compare price wise with other magnet bands.

Thanks for posting, that was really interesting to see.
		
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I've never seen any evidence for magnets either in humans or horses but if there is some I would love to read it could you point me in the right direction (I haven't been able to find anything on pub med but I probably haven't looked in a whole either)


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## Tiddlypom (18 September 2014)

joycec said:



			Thanks for posting, that was really interesting to see.
		
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Thanks from me too, TGM.


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## JFTDWS (18 September 2014)

joycec said:



			Well that might explain some things. There is plenty of evidence for magnet therapy (increasing blood supply I think)
		
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There really isn't, y'know


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## blitznbobs (18 September 2014)

http://nccam.nih.gov/health/magnet/magnetsforpain.htm

As I thought , vigorous studies in humans show no evidence of magnets reducing pain...


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## Auslander (18 September 2014)

acorn92x said:



			I really, really regret even starting this tread. 

I asked a simple question and whilst I have received some responses which I would classify as useful, with people bringing up some opinions and first hand experience of the bands, I now feel that the thread has been hijacked and has evolved into a squabbling match with people insulting each other. It seem that people are missing the point of the initial question that I asked and are now no longer interested in responding to this. 

It would be really nice to get back on track with the original question that I asked and I would still be interested to hear responses from people, providing they are constructed in a respectful manner.
		
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But - if you read  the squabbling, it was mostly based on people questioning the science (people who in real life, are very much qualified to question it!). Whilst user experience is great, having someone who knows how things work on a molecular level, and can therefore challenge wild claims on your behalf, and potentially save you a lot of money - is a good thing. If people don't discuss/argue/debate - nothing good would ever happen! To be fair - the Equestreamx guy himself was the one who was the most rude and disrespectful - AND he was caught out misusing the name of someone who had never heard of him or his product.
Anyway - you've bought them now, and i hope they work for you. Be great to get seem feedback


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## joycec (18 September 2014)

blitznbobs said:



http://nccam.nih.gov/health/magnet/magnetsforpain.htm

As I thought , vigorous studies in humans show no evidence of magnets reducing pain...
		
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No-one said they did?  I'll try and find what I found when I researched them, it was increased blood flow I found evidence for.


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## joycec (18 September 2014)

Seems like the evidence is actually for reduced blood flow!


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## undergroundoli (18 September 2014)

Matt didn't answer my question about how he blinded his 'trial'! I'd really like to know, did any of you who chatted to him at hickstead ask?


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## blitznbobs (18 September 2014)

Where is this evidence I've searched and searched and can't find any


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## blitznbobs (18 September 2014)

blitznbobs said:



			Where is this evidence I've searched and searched and can't find any
		
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The latest study I can find although in humans looked at the data of the 5 largest magnet studies in 2009. The conclusion saying that

'Not a single trial showed any benefit of pulsed electromagnetic field therapy over placebo.' 

So as someone who treats pain and inflammation in humans I'd love to see this evidence as magnets are cheap and if they can be shown not to be placebo I would gladly suggest them to some of my patients


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## *hic* (19 September 2014)

wrong thread, sorry


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## Horseyj (24 September 2014)

Sophiewells said:



			Yes I have used these, initially I was sceptical, as probably most people are. I used them on myself first to see if I found a difference. I have a lot of nerve problems in my legs, and often get quite a lot of nerve pain. Which can often stay through the night and stop me sleeping. However since I've started using them you streamz, even if I'm having a bad day with the pain, once I put the band, the recovery is much better. And feel much more effective in the morning, despite feeling weak the next day before using them.
I then started to use them on my
Horses, more if they were having problems. I've seen more than a few improvements in several horses wearing the bands, so I can only say from experience that they have helped and have been worth it.
I'm not sure how people can speak negatively of any product they have not tried. 
I would just say to give it a go....and you don't want to spend the money on equ streamz, why not try the human version which is half the price, and if you find a result, then spend the money on the horses....

Ok so I saw this thread link on Facebook and that Sophie Wells commented. So I just wanted to share my experiences as I've tried the product.

Sophie- I tried the YouStreamz as I heard that many of the professional riders like yourself were wearing them and seeing benefits. I have just moved to the States and usually suffer horribly from jet lag but found I recovered much faster than usual which has been awesome. I have a family member who uses the bands for her ex-show jumper who suffers with stiff joints and was constantly lame. It was getting to the point where my Aunt contemplated retiring him so these were a last attempt at making him sound. Since using the bands he has been in light work 60-70% of the time. My Aunt was lucky if she could ride him a couple of days straight in a month previously.

Placebo effect or not they have worked for me and my Aunt's horse so I recommend them to friends and family. I read on here that there's a money back guarantee too.

Sophie good luck with training for the upcoming trials  I watch with interest
		
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## MerrySherryRider (24 September 2014)

JFTD said:



			The trouble with having an open mind is that anyone can walk right in and set up shop.  I prefer to have a few hurdles on the way in, and a moat.  Keeps the riff raff out 

Click to expand...

Genius ! This should be the mission statement of HHO. 

Haven't followed this thread but it's a classic. Banned new posters and lots of random happy customers joining the forum to say how wonderful a company is. It's a bit passe now and it's never worked yet.


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## JFTDWS (24 September 2014)

MerrySherryRider said:



			Genius ! This should be the mission statement of HHO. 

Haven't followed this thread but it's a classic. Banned new posters and lots of random happy customers joining the forum to say how wonderful a company is. It's a bit passe now and it's never worked yet.
		
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*Grins*  I confess, it's a shameless adaptation of something Terry Pratchett wrote, but I do enjoy the idea.  I also have a mind castle - I needed a moat for the same reasoning


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## MerrySherryRider (24 September 2014)

Well, its probably the best observation I've heard in a long time. Made my morning. Thanks JFTD !


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## Jesster (12 October 2014)

I've had a dog collar made by the original inventor of this product sitting around for years. During a clear out/house move I found it again and in a moment of desperation, whacked it on the leg of my chronically lame polo pony.

Pony in question has a lot of scarring over a tendon injury and vets have advised surgery to shave the tendon and cut the annular ligament. He had been quite lame for weeks and on two bute a day. After being quoted£2000 for surgery I thought a dog collar on it for a couple of days couldn't hurt.

Within 24 hours the heat and inflammation that had been present for nearly two months had improved beyond belief, I was freaking astonished. He was no longer lame in walk. I took him off all bute. Three days later he was nearly sound in trot and the leg was cold and hard. 

"Meh" thought I. "Mere coincidence!" So I took the collar off his pastern. The next day the leg was warm and he was a bit more lame. 

I put the collar back on his leg. Within a day, noticeably colder and sounder.

I tried this collar on/collar off thing a few times before admitting that, despite me or Gaucho (the pony) knowing jack-all about science, blow me down the thing seemed to work. He has worn it 24/7 in the field since July.

I checked the leg last week and it felt warm. I took the collar off and it was broken, it seems the stuff inside needs to complete a circle or summat? I have no idea. I just know that I'm just off to order a proper-designed-for-orses whatsit one as a dog collar I don't think is designed for clambering in hedges and brambles on the leg of an equine...?

This Equ stream thingy, whatever it's called now, has my full approval. I was on the verge of putting a bullet in my beloved G-Man and now I have a happy polo pony that can comfortably hack on no bute whatsoever. 

Cost of bullet and disposal: £250

Cost of surgery with no guarantee of a sound horse afterwards :£2000

Cost of a box of bute : £90

I have avoided all of the above. All because of a weird magnetic dog collar that someone have me as a gift years ago.

Geddon.


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## Red-1 (13 October 2014)

Matt at streamz said:



			Thank you and point taken. 

Have a nice evening and let me know if you want to try a band on yourself (my shout)
		
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OK, I am not a new poster and if you look back I have plenty of references to injury to my hip and back. In fact I have had to curtail a lot of my horse activities, had to change my car and horse transport for an automatic as I can not drive with a clutch any more. This year I stopped riding and training horses professionally as it is too painful and I do not have the strength (still do teaching, but am much less likely to want to ride a client's horse).

I have tried magnets (some effect, I am perfectly prepared to believe it is a placebo effect), hologram (did absolutely nothing at all), hefty painkillers (did make it feel a bit better but made me personally feel like rubbish), a small device that gave my leg a small electric shock all night (not sure that did anything, and it was a faff), a massager (caused a lot of pain but would release muscles somewhat if they were in spasm), electro magnet magic box with flashing light (expensive and no real effect), physio (did some good but at £40 a session quite expensive at twice a week), physio for 2 weeks residential (did some good, but you can't walk out of life for 2 weeks on a regular basis).........

I saw the above quote, and although I would not have BOUGHT a magic Streamz ankle bracelet (too used to being disappointed at empty promises) I could not resist the offer of a free trial!

I PM'ed Matt at Streamz straight back, and last week he got back to me, and has actually sent me an ankle bracelet.

It was not the best timing as I have had a load more heavyweight physio, and the band arrived the day after. So, not the best time for a comparison as improvement could be from physio or the band.

The day before it arrived, after the physio, I had my normal rubbish night's sleep, I have actually become afraid of falling asleep as if I roll wrong my back cramps up, and I wake up rigid.  The night after I put the band on overnight, and....... no difference.

I was fed up, as right now I would be happy with the placebo effect, just to sleep!

Still, I said I would give it a good try, and I have worn it for 3 more nights since. It has been better. Not earth shattering, but definitely better. As in sleeping through until 4am rather than waking up cramped at 1 or 2am. Also, when I wake up I am sore, but not in great pain. I still have to lie carefully, but if I roll over it is uncomfortable rather than painful.

As I had physio just before the band arrived (from a new and highly regarded practitioner) I have no "evidence" other than the "biggie" that Matt did contact me back, when I did not think he would. He did send me a band to try, no strings attached. He did as he promised on the forum.He only knows me from my PM.

At the moment my band will stay on at night, and if the better effect continues I will take it off, so I will be able to decide weather the improvement is Bandz induced or physio induced. Later on I will also try it on my OH, who had bad knees, and my mother who has mobility issues from age. 

For the scientists I am sorry my "trial" will only be anecdotal. For me I am glad to have the opportunity to try something else, free of charge. For the company I think them for replying and upholding their offer. For anyone interested I will let you know how I get on.


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## glinda (19 January 2015)

Just found this thread- I have tried the bands for my boy who badly damaged 5 ligaments in his lower hind leg in Oct 2013&#8230;. He was on box rest for 10 months and then gradual turnout and is still on field rest only now&#8230;.. He was obviously 10/10 lame to start with which improved to probably 5/10 lame with box rest but 100/10 lame if you lifted his hind leg !!! Even as it started to improve he would constantly rest his leg- balancing the leg on tip toe and hop round the stable.

I was very sceptical having tried magnetic boots, back on track boots etc but got some bands thinking what the hell it can't hurt and I have to say since wearing them I have not seen him resting his leg once in the stable, he is sound in the field, still lame after a flexion test BUT even my farrier said to me last week that he was massively improved since the previous visit in terms of lifting and bending his damaged leg.
Now it could be coincidence but it seems odd that the only noticeable improvement has been since wearing the bands !! He wears them whilst stabled at night.

I'm just about to order another set for my arthritic pony who has arthritis in his stifles!


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## Tiddlypom (20 June 2017)

Apologies for reviving an old thread, but I have recently seen a FB post from a retailer that I often purchase goods from. The retailer is enthusiastically promoting the use of Equ StreamZ bands for any or all of the following conditions :eek3:-

'Equ StreamZ bands help improve the following and encourage overall wellbeing of your horse or pony: 

Arthritis
Lameness
Joint disorders (DJD)
Tendon / Ligament issues
Laminitis
Cushings Disease / PPID
Navicular
Wind Galls
Mobility / Decrease Inflammation and Swelling
Energy Levels and Vitality
Digestive Issues
General Happiness and Condition'

Goodness. 'Tis indeed a miracle product :rolleyes3:.


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## glamourpuss (20 June 2017)

Tiddlypom said:



			Apologies for reviving an old thread, but I have recently seen a FB post from a retailer that I often purchase goods from. The retailer is enthusiastically promoting the use of Equ StreamZ bands for any or all of the following conditions :eek3:-

'Equ StreamZ bands help improve the following and encourage overall wellbeing of your horse or pony: 

Arthritis
Lameness
Joint disorders (DJD)
Tendon / Ligament issues
Laminitis
Cushings Disease / PPID
Navicular
Wind Galls
Mobility / Decrease Inflammation and Swelling
Energy Levels and Vitality
Digestive Issues
General Happiness and Condition'

Goodness. 'Tis indeed a miracle product :rolleyes3:.
		
Click to expand...


Brave statements indeed when you consider this 
https://www.asa.org.uk/rulings/streamz-global-ltd-a17-378570.html

In trouble for making claims they cannot prove &#128527;


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## JFTDWS (20 June 2017)

Tiddlypom said:



			'Equ StreamZ bands help improve the following and encourage overall wellbeing of your horse or pony: 

Arthritis
Lameness
Joint disorders (DJD)
Tendon / Ligament issues
Laminitis
Cushings Disease / PPID
Navicular
Wind Galls
Mobility / Decrease Inflammation and Swelling
Energy Levels and Vitality
Digestive Issues
General Happiness and Condition'
		
Click to expand...

:rolleyes3: My eyes have rolled so far back, I can see my own brain.  Nice to know it's still there.


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## Regandal (20 June 2017)

I emailed them and asked what research they were basing their claims on, specifically in regard to navicular.  Silence.


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## ester (20 June 2017)

I do love the wording on that ASA ruling


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## Tiddlypom (23 July 2017)

Equ-StreamZ is the gift that keeps on giving .

I'm not stalking the company, honest, but this has just popped up on my FB feed. I've cropped the screenshot down, rather crudely, to protect the poster's identity. It's from the Equ-StreamZ FB page.










I had a proper coffee snorting attack when I read it!


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## Nicnac (23 July 2017)

Tiddlypom said:



			Equ-StreamZ is the gift that keeps on giving .

I'm not stalking the company, honest, but this has just popped up on my FB feed. I've cropped the screenshot down, rather crudely, to protect the poster's identity. It's from the Equ-StreamZ FB page.










I had a proper coffee snorting attack when I read it!
		
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Mine was Diet Coke but still same result = wet keyboard.


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## JFTDWS (23 July 2017)

Tiddlypom said:



			Equ-StreamZ is the gift that keeps on giving .

I'm not stalking the company, honest, but this has just popped up on my FB feed. I've cropped the screenshot down, rather crudely, to protect the poster's identity. It's from the Equ-StreamZ FB page.










I had a proper coffee snorting attack when I read it!
		
Click to expand...

That's beautiful...


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## shaskeen (9 August 2017)

They delete negative comments, I had issue with them over hat last year, they DO NOT work a great money making scam, the materials used are low grade rubbish, I've seen better Velcro on toddlers trainers, avoid!!


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## Equi (9 August 2017)

Met Matt when i was at Olympia and standing in the que to see Carl. So i was beside the stall for approx 45mins. Have to admit i was almost tempted several times to buy them, purely from the sales pitch. Put it this way, they admit they are not scientists but i have personal experience that they are definitely sales people lol 

Would i still give them a go? Yeah. Still would be tempted. My dad has terrible knee arthritis and im tempted to get him some for christmas. My old boy has a few old age stiffness and im again tempted. 

I have an open mind until i actually try them myself.


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## JFTDWS (9 August 2017)

What I want to know is why they're advertising their Dog Streamz bands as "natural".  They're made of synthetic polymers!


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## ester (9 August 2017)

As sales people they rely on people being 'tempted'! So long as you get enough tempted people from your sales patter that's a viable business model. 

*currently wondering why we bother to validate any tests, we should just patter about them 

LOL JFTD


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## MotherOfChickens (9 August 2017)

ester said:



			*currently wondering why we bother to validate any tests, we should just patter about them 

Click to expand...

quite, why bother with years of research and validation? lets just bullshit instead.


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## jumping.jack_flash (9 August 2017)

On boy' I cant believe I'm even owning up to buying them, and replying to this thread.... however, yes I bought them (horse is currently being treated for PSD). I was concerned that the horses legs were swollen from standing. Having ad-hoc used these bands, I must admit that the swelling was greatly reduced or gone.

I personally prefer science, drugs and treatment that I can physically see / administer ... however.... these magnets wrapped around the fetlocks have done something to the overall recovery process.

To be honest - for peace of mind, I didn't mind spending the money...  of course, VETS are the best treatment, but using these alongside... I couldn't see any harm....


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## ester (9 August 2017)

There isn't any harm, 

that doesn't mean they should take peoples' money just for not making a situation worse! 

 I'm not sure we should always be considering swelling as bad. Unless you put a band on one leg and not the other and the suspensory has healed better in the banded leg I see no evidence in your post that they have done anything to the overall recovery process? Although they would probably say it doesn't matter where it was so one band would heal both legs right up anyway.

I'm still looking forwards to seeing their clinical data when it is published though.


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## diamondrockharvey (9 August 2017)

We tired these on our mare who has white legs and they irritated her skin and made her sore, almost like a burn on the skin after wearing them for only 2 days!


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## Wildfox (20 August 2017)

I just stumbled across this thread, and read through the whole thing. I noticed In one of Matt's comments that these bands help horses with grass sickness... anyone else pick up on that?

As the owner of a pony who was very sadly put to sleep after a long battle with grass sickness, I find it shocking that such claims would be made, People would do absolutely anything, try absolutely anything to help their horse through such an illness and in the moment you're not even thinking about the science behind it or if it even makes sense you'd just go ahead and buy it. The people at the grass sickness fund wouldn't be very happy to see claims that it "helps horses with grass sickness".


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## Wildfox (20 August 2017)

Matt at streamz said:



			Placebo doesnt make fetlocks reduce in swelling overnight, nor does it increase mobility or help with windgalls, or even help horses with grass sickness or with behavioural issues.
		
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Here we go... i mean, I know it's an old post, but that comment just really shocked me. How... how did it help with grass sickness of all things?! Never mind all the leg stuff... grass sickness?! No.


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## Jane Thomas (4 December 2021)

glamourpuss said:



			Brave statements indeed when you consider this
https://www.asa.org.uk/rulings/streamz-global-ltd-a17-378570.html

In trouble for making claims they cannot prove &#128527;
		
Click to expand...

Sorry to report that the btards are still selling them; wish I'd come here first; like so many I thought, well why not try them they might do some good but alas a total waste of space and money. Tried to return them and get a refund but no joy.  I bought a pair for my aging horse who is suffering a little from stiffness etc but a much better option is to keep him mobile, and a periodical Bowen treatment which does work for him. Please do not waste your hard earned cash. They deserve to go out of business for such behaviour.


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## Sandstone1 (4 December 2021)

I dont know about the science behind them but my horse does have soft lumps on his knees.  Have been checked by a vet and told to leave them alone.   If I put on the bands the swelling goes down.  If I dont use them the swelling stays.  No idea how or why it works but it does reduce swelling.


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