# King Cotton Gold - what do people think?



## eventrider23 (28 October 2010)

On paper I ADORE this stallion, what with him being directly a son of Cavalier Royale and out of a Samiel mare, making him related to Mill Law on the dam line.  However, in the flesh I was not blown away by him as I thought I would be.

What do people think of him?  Has he got any progeny on the ground yet?


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## jomiln (28 October 2010)

I saw him at Hartpury's stallion parade and liked his temperament. We have then watched his results on BE which started well but then tailed off. I would certainly be interested in seeing any progeny


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## TheMule (28 October 2010)

His record would put me off, especially given he's a 12 year old.
2 horse falls on his record, including 1 at PN. I want to breed an eventer with a sense of self preservation!


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## Enfys (28 October 2010)

TheMule said:



			His record would put me off, especially given he's a 12 year old.
2 horse falls on his record, including 1 at PN. I want to breed an eventer with a sense of self preservation!

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 Yes, but can't *any* horse fall occasionally? So much to take into account for a fall. Heaven forbid it should be partially rider error.  That's what they say isn't it? If the combination wins it is all down to the jockey, if it loses - blame the nag.

Surely it doesn't automatically make them clumsy oafs that are going to pass the trait on. Perhaps using a mare that has never hit the deck, should go, in part, to neutralising the fault.


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## eventrider23 (28 October 2010)

I was going to say that anything can cause a horse fall....you can never, without having been there, know the circumstances that caused it....could have been something as simple as ground conditions causing the fall.  That said, Jomiln I am interested you like him at Hartpury as that is where i too saw him.  I loved his temperament, that was never a question, but he just didn't scream stallion to me and I so dearly wanted him to given his amazing pedigree.  I am definitely not ruling him out though and would love to see what foals he produces.


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## millitiger (28 October 2010)

I thought he had a lovely temperament at Hartpury and was a total sweetie in the stable (one of the only stallions not tied up in his stable), he is nicely put together but agree no WOW.

I don't think I would use him if aiming to breed an eventer as such, more to breed a nice riding club alrounder.


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## eventrider23 (28 October 2010)

That was my impression of him Millitiger.....no WOW...and yes, the sort to make nice RC horses.....I guess that goes to show you can have all the pedigree in the world.....


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## magic104 (9 February 2011)

I discounted because of the exact same reason when I saw him at Addington, no WOW factor unlike say Legrande.  Also he did not have enough movement for the mare in mind.  For some unknown reason, & I am going to blame the menopause, I wrote his name down on the bidding slip!  And with the negative comments I doubt I will be able to sell it on for very much.  Oh well, that's life.


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## stolensilver (9 February 2011)

I saw him at SSGB and thought he looked a nice sort but he wasn't presented as well as he could have been so it was hard to truly assess him. His rider tried to ride dressage in a jumping saddle which threw her weight backwards so much that when she entered the arena I wondered if he had a para rider on his back! His dressage display was not good, because of the saddle the rider couldn't gather him together (most of the time her reins were like washing lines) and he was such a good boy he toddled around looking after her. I think he could tell she was out of balance and so he didn't use any oomph and his paces consequently looked very stilted. I'm not criticising the rider BTW, no one would have been able to ride effectively with long stirrups in that saddle. It is just unfortunate that she tried to do so at the display. Once she took off her top hat and tails and shortened her stirrups it was clear she was a decent jockey and King Cotton Gold looked honest and able over the fences with a good gallop on him. 

He has gone on my "see what he does and what he produces" list. He might be very nice, he certainly has outstanding bloodlines.


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## magic104 (9 February 2011)

Everyone has spoken of about his bloodlines & his sire Cavalier Royale needs no introduction, but his dam?  Yes she is by Samiel who sired Mill Law, Ballyhaise & Red Marshall, but she does not seem to have done much either herself or as a broodmare, ie no other offspring out at a decent level.  According to the stud card she is ex of Cherry Gold who was by a Clydsdale stallion Muirton Security ex of Kinnegar.  Breeding of Kinnegar I have not found anything on as yet.  So the top half of the dams breeding is ok, but not sure.  It is my error & I just have to get on with it, but I dont think he will improve on her enough for what we wanted.  King's Leap the sire of Samiel is by Princely Gift, who was also the sire of King's Troop the sire of her grd dam, (not close enough to bother me).  I saw a Utube video of him jumping & he looked honest.  Temperment, yes he was lovely, but so were quiet a few others.  Does anyone know if he has any offspring about?  I kinda go the impression 2010 was his 1st season at public stud.


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## sare_bear (9 February 2011)

I really liked him in the stable at Addington and liked the fact he was small as most stallions now days are huge! I too love his breeding, but he did nothing for me as a stallion under saddle. He didn't even track up properly in trot. I suppose I would use him if trying to breed a pc type horse. For me I wouldn't have looked twice at him in passing, as a gelding let alone a stallion. Shall see what progeny he produces and may have to eat my words!


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## tipsytiger2 (9 February 2011)

He was one I wanted to see at SSGB, and sadly although he was a lovely person he did fail to impress me - as Sare Bear said he didn't even track up in trot. 

Undoubtedly a very sweet and genuine sort, he would be the horse I'd like to end up with not what I would breed from. 

I also wondered why he never bred anything in Ireland.

AFAIK he has one foal due this spring


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## magic104 (9 February 2011)

His results from the SSH grading
Conformation 7.4 Movement 7.2 Jump 7.4 total 74%


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## GinnieRedwings (9 February 2011)

sare_bear said:



			I really liked him in the stable at Addington and liked the fact he was small as most stallions now days are huge! I too love his breeding, but he did nothing for me as a stallion under saddle. He didn't even track up properly in trot. I suppose I would use him if trying to breed a pc type horse. For me I wouldn't have looked twice at him in passing, as a gelding let alone a stallion. Shall see what progeny he produces and may have to eat my words!
		
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Agree 100%

He was the one I liked least of the lot. My friend and I did wonder whether he was stallion material at all.

Might also have to eat my words


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## magic104 (9 February 2011)

God I hope we do get to eat our words, but I have a horrible feeling that we wont.  At least the rest of you are not stuck with do I just right this off, or go with it!  I just dont like going against my gut feeling & plus there is going to be all hell in the household as it means we cant go with our choice.  I bet no one else even put in a bid for him!  I just dont understand why I wrote his name down, I really must be loosing the plot!!

PS - Sorry to his connections, I shouldnt diss him on a public forum.


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## GinnieRedwings (9 February 2011)

Magic, run with it and make us all eat our words with the most magnificent foal ever born...


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## magic104 (9 February 2011)

GinnieRedwings said:



			Magic, run with it and make us all eat our words with the most magnificent foal ever born...

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LOL, thanks for that gave me a giggle.


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## tipsytiger2 (9 February 2011)

with the right mare and his bloodlines you could end with something lovely (sorry I didn't realise you had "won" him)


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## TheMule (9 February 2011)

Hmmm... dare I say this?!

Buy a little cheapie tb mare, nicely put together, kind temperament and put him to her. Don't use him on another mare if you'd rather use something else- it's too blooming expensive and risky to not end up with what you want!


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## magic104 (9 February 2011)

tipsytiger2 said:



			with the right mare and his bloodlines you could end with something lovely (sorry I didn't realise you had "won" him)
		
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Oh god dont be sorry, it was a bloody big mistake on my part.  It could of been worse, he could be a raving loony!!


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## maggiemoto (9 February 2011)

His owner did a full page editorial on him in one of the freebie horse mags, can't remember which one, will see if I can find it.  It was based on the fact that his temperament was excellent unlike some of the stallions his owner had seen at last year's stallion parade.  To be fair, his owner also commented on her riding ability and that he kept/got her out of trouble in spite of her not because of her.  Would agree, his breeding is interesting and did consider using him on one of our mares this year or next but see his stud fee is now £600 and I think there are much better stallions out there for less money. Just my opinion.


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## stolensilver (9 February 2011)

Magic I think he's a much better stallion than he appeared at the SSGB. His paces weren't shown because his rider was so out of balance when she was trying to ride like a dressage rider in a jumping saddle. Goodness knows why she did that, not only did it look bad, it has to have been very uncomfortable! I gave King Cotton Gold a big gold star for being so kind to her while she was riding in the long stirrups. If he had shown his true trot she would probably have fallen off because the saddle threw her so far backwards. 

He is a very kind stallion. He has got good breeding. He has got a competition record. He is sound. Those are a lot more positives than can be said for some very big name stallions that aren't in this country. The worst that can happen if you use him is you get a kind, sound horse that someone will love very dearly.  

Next year I hope he comes back to the stallion parade and is ridden with short stirrups all the time. Then he can be asked to show off his paces properly as well as going over the jumps. If he really does have dressage quality paces he can stay till the Sunday and be shown in a dressage saddle too just as Legrande was. I think he's a nice stallion who wasn't given a fair chance to show how nice he is.


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## magic104 (9 February 2011)

Well my daughter says this is fate & with next year being the Olympics with everyone going for Gold we should stick with him.  So if everything goes to plan next year we could have our own Olympic Gold.


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## amy_b (10 February 2011)

We looked into him quite abit last season but decided to wait to see how he does. the lady that owns him hasnt had him all that long, the story is something like she has something by cavalier royale and it died (possibly?!) and an old man owned this stallion and one persuaded the other to have him, that is why he hasnt done much for his age.


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## cruiseline (10 February 2011)

I thought he moved much better at last years Hartpury stallion parade when I saw him. Perhaps it was just not his day at the weekend. All horses can have a bad day every now and again when they are not at their best.


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## magic104 (10 February 2011)

cruiseline said:



			I thought he moved much better at last years Hartpury stallion parade when I saw him. Perhaps it was just not his day at the weekend. All horses can have a bad day every now and again when they are not at their best.
		
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I think the problem is your boy was such a gent, but under saddle he has that wow factor & he has the presence of a stallion.  Without sounding like I'm licking ar'@e Legrande has the whole package, not just part.  It was wrong of me to knock KCG on a public forum based on a short time seeing him.


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## maggiemoto (10 February 2011)

I have found the article written by KCG's owner in the August 2010 edition of Equi-Ads magazine.  If anyone would like a copy, please let me know and I will scan it and e-mail it over.  Hasten to add that I do not have any connection with the horse, just that I saw the thread and had considered him for my own mare.


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## seabsicuit2 (10 February 2011)

Is the genetic potential of this horse likely to influence its offspring much?

Just wondering, because for example in racing you have 100's of poorly performing stallions by the great saddlers wells. They are used as stallions for racing and their progeny cant run a yard.  Its only the ones that have performed well themselves & have a strong damline that has also performed, that actually seem to pass on the goods. But I may be wrong & it may not be as black and white as that.


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## magic104 (10 February 2011)

Is the genetic potential of this horse likely to influence its offspring much

No probably not, all I have found out so far is the dam is mentioned in IHB ISH mare book as being by Samiel who himself has some successful offspring eventing.  Her dam is not recorded except on the SSH grading sheet & KCG's stud card and that states Cherry Gold
by Muirton Security who was a Clydesdale stallion & winner of the Cawdor Cup.  Her dam is listed as Kinnegar, no idea what she is.  

Cherry Red has no competition record that I can find, but without knowing her circumstances who is to say she was not a capable performer.  It makes no odds now we are going to stick by him, as it has been pointed out he looks to be an honest horse & that is worth something.  2 sets of grading panels passed him, so he must have something that appeals.


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## eventrider23 (10 February 2011)

I think honesty counts for a lot more sometimes...I would rather breed a ridable and therefore sellable horse that will try his heart out for you than a sharp one only a pro could ride if you get what I mean.


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## stolensilver (10 February 2011)

I think he's a nice horse and he has a super temperament. He's ridden by an amateur and is going out competing in British Eventing. He showed plenty of jump at the SSGB and at his gradings the panels gave him a decent mark for his paces. I think you are wise to stick by him Magic. You should get an honest, trainable horse from him and it might just be very nice indeed.


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## Sonyac814 (13 February 2011)

I am so excited to see this discussion!! First I must declare my bias...I'm King Cotton Gold's owner and afraid also his rider, so first for the good news...I am not hereditary! I'm afraid I have to confess to just being an enthusiatic amatuer who has stumbled across this fabulous stallion and won't let go! (look at my eventing record...I'm rubbish!) I do realise my riding has a lot to be desired and I look a bit shoddy in the arena straight after Pippa Funnel, and I may reconsider attemping dressage in my XC saddle again, however this is the whole point of King Cotton Gold!
Last summer, Oliver Townend asked for the ride on him and after much deliberation, for the time being, I said no. Possibly a mistake, but the point I am trying to make is that King Cotton Gold represents everything I think we are losing with modern sports horse breeding. I appreciate these modern wonder stallions, I really do, and I recognise that if you want to win an olympic gold in dressage of SJ, you probably need one, but the availability of AI to all and sundry means our livery yards are flooded with "sons of Arco" types that most normal riders like me just can't ride. They are blooming hard to sit on and pretty firey and spooky...you have all seen them and probably ridden them. 
King Cotton Gold harks back to the days of sound, safe sensible horses where even an enthusiastic amatuer can "have a go", maybe even get to Babminton one day, I won't win, but wow, wouldn't it be great!....and that's the point I am trying to make. He's taken me from PN to having a bash as 2* in two seasons, and yes, I'm afraid the falls were my fault...he is really clever actually... but the point is he jumped beautiful clears without the slightest hesitation next time out.
Re paces, it's true his trot is not flashy warmblood, but look at all the top eventers, they don't move like warmbloods because that sort of movement can lead to lameness when you put the kind of miles on that you need for an eventer. King Cotton Gold still has Grade 1 x-rays aged 12! And don't forget the paces you can't train so easily; the walk and canter are to die for and his jump is phenomenal, but I'm afraid I was too scared to jump higher than 1.20 at Addington! (see his scores from IHB and from the SSH grading...one of the hardest societies in UK to get licenced by). Its difficult not to see past those floaty, expressive prancing continental stallions, but whatever you choose to breed from, think long and hard about what you want. Is it an olympic champion, or do you want a little piece of magic and a lifelong friend who might just have the courage and heart to let you rub shoulders with the big boys one day....even if you are as rubbish as me!!
Wish us luck!!


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## magic104 (13 February 2011)

Sonyac814 thanks for the input & again I apologise for being so blinkered.  As I was also reminded that honesty in a horse can overcome many things, something I had forgotten.  I have said in the past that you cant breed heart or the will to want to do the job.  Temperment is all important & there is a bigger market for the sane reliable mount.


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## gingerarab (13 February 2011)

Sonya I am so glad to see your reply, its really easy for people to knock your horse on a forum like this and sometimes its quite unfair.  I for one hope you have plenty of sucess in the future with your boy !  Good Luck


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## cruiseline (13 February 2011)

Sonyac814 said:



			I am so excited to see this discussion!! First I must declare my bias...I'm King Cotton Gold's owner and afraid also his rider, so first for the good news...I am not hereditary! I'm afraid I have to confess to just being an enthusiatic amatuer who has stumbled across this fabulous stallion and won't let go! (look at my eventing record...I'm rubbish!) I do realise my riding has a lot to be desired and I look a bit shoddy in the arena straight after Pippa Funnel, and I may reconsider attemping dressage in my XC saddle again, however this is the whole point of King Cotton Gold!
Last summer, Oliver Townend asked for the ride on him and after much deliberation, for the time being, I said no. Possibly a mistake, but the point I am trying to make is that King Cotton Gold represents everything I think we are losing with modern sports horse breeding. I appreciate these modern wonder stallions, I really do, and I recognise that if you want to win an olympic gold in dressage of SJ, you probably need one, but the availability of AI to all and sundry means our livery yards are flooded with "sons of Arco" types that most normal riders like me just can't ride. They are blooming hard to sit on and pretty firey and spooky...you have all seen them and probably ridden them. 
King Cotton Gold harks back to the days of sound, safe sensible horses where even an enthusiastic amatuer can "have a go", maybe even get to Babminton one day, I won't win, but wow, wouldn't it be great!....and that's the point I am trying to make. He's taken me from PN to having a bash as 2* in two seasons, and yes, I'm afraid the falls were my fault...he is really clever actually... but the point is he jumped beautiful clears without the slightest hesitation next time out.
Re paces, it's true his trot is not flashy warmblood, but look at all the top eventers, they don't move like warmbloods because that sort of movement can lead to lameness when you put the kind of miles on that you need for an eventer. King Cotton Gold still has Grade 1 x-rays aged 12! And don't forget the paces you can't train so easily; the walk and canter are to die for and his jump is phenomenal, but I'm afraid I was too scared to jump higher than 1.20 at Addington! (see his scores from IHB and from the SSH grading...one of the hardest societies in UK to get licenced by). Its difficult not to see past those floaty, expressive prancing continental stallions, but whatever you choose to breed from, think long and hard about what you want. Is it an olympic champion, or do you want a little piece of magic and a lifelong friend who might just have the courage and heart to let you rub shoulders with the big boys one day....even if you are as rubbish as me!!
Wish us luck!!
		
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Nice to see you on here Sonya814

I saw KCG at Hartpury last year and was impressed with him there. I think it is great that you are enjoying every minute you spend with your stallion and that he puts a smile on your face every day. That is exactly what it is all about.

There are those that will love him and those that won't, but it doesn't matter, because you do.

I hope to see both him and you again at next years SSGB.


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## GinnieRedwings (13 February 2011)

Sonyac814, good luck and I do hope you make it to Badminton!

I do have to say, however, that most of the people who were at the SSGB are experienced breeders and hopefully able to look past big names and flashy paces and look at the horse underneath in a balanced manner.

With all due respect, I stand by my assessment that KCG is a very nice horse with undeniable good temperament and ability, but is not *in my opinion *breeding stallion material from what I saw of him. When he has progeny under saddle consistently doing well at advanced level, then I will be very happy to offer you my very humble apologies for misjudging him.


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## magic104 (13 February 2011)

GinnieRedwings said:



			When he has progeny under saddle consistently doing well at advanced level, then I will be very happy to offer you my very humble apologies for misjudging him.
		
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Ginnie be fair, how can you judge a stallion on that basis if his offspring dont go to homes that can produce a horse to advanced level?  The Billy Stud keep their youngsters & produce them.  Any that show real talent then get taken under the wing of the Funnells for more 1 2 1 treatment.  Their stallions therefore are expected to have offspring at the higher levels.

KCG did disappoint  in the fact he did not have that 'Look at Me' presence & I would have liked to have seen him following through in his movements.  But I would not put him down just for the lack of advanced level offspring.  Sponeck was a well bred, talented horse (though soured in his younger days) who should of done far better as a stallion.  His offspring have done better overseas then they did in this country.  But if they dont get the mares &/or the people to produce them, then you can hardly put all the blame at the door of the stallion.


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## Sonyac814 (13 February 2011)

Again, so great that he is generating debate and I for one am really looking forward to seeing the first crop of foals this year, and of course the true test of a stallion is the offspring. (2010 was only his first year at stud). 
It is a good thing that people have different opinions and look for different things in stallions otherwise only one would get a look in, but just for the record (and a bit of adverting!!) here's the opinion from the SSH grader (the grader was a Dutch event rider!).
"A well kept horse, with good conformation, a good walk and canter. An easy and adjusting jumper". and from the vet "12 y.o event horse with good x-rays!! Short coupled great type for all round competition horse, good active paces. I like this!" He was one of only 3 stallions who made the cut that day (Amoureax by the way didn't, so they weren't all rubbish... as I think he is a lovely dreassage type!)
Surely the fact he has been licenced by 2 World Breeding Federation Sports Horse bodies and has never been rejected by one means he's definately breeding material... but probably not for a Grand Prix dressage horse. (try Franklyn Sugar for that! Now there's a trot!!). I'm also going to cross him to a little pony to breed my little girl her FEI junior mount!

However...here's a thought! Bring him a mare with a flash trot and let him do the rest! Meantime I'm off to get some dressage lessons 

Lots more views welcome!!


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## Cello_song (13 February 2011)

I have known King Cotton Gold now for nearly 3 years and in that time his stable manners and behaviour have always been impeccable, and he has never been lame. I also think that he is the most stunning horse I have ever been lucky enough to clap eyes on in the flesh! I think that these things coupled with the fact his is out and about regularly competing make him a super stallion prospect for someone to breed their 'horse of a lifetime'. As sonya says, you may not get a world class superstar but what you are likely to get (depending on your mare!) is a trainable, sound horse with a good heart. Surely these attributes would be a good start?

Best of luck with him Sonya and I look forward to seeing some KCG foals on the ground this year!


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## GinnieRedwings (13 February 2011)

I was really not meaning to be unfair. I was being very candid (as in I meant it!!!), when saying I hoped his progeny's result would make me eat my words.

KCG was not on my radar before last week-end and he didn't impress me - not because of lack of flashy paces (none of the eventers had flashy paces) and not because of lack of a professional rider. 

As a general rule, I don't go for flashy horses & I don't like picking stallions that have been over-produced. I think it is very dificult to see a horse's "natural" way of going when he has been highly produced - and all it shows is that either the horse is highly trainable or that his rider is highly talented! I pick young stallions and look at what they look like when they are effectively "stripped to the bone" and all you can see is the horse and its movement. 

By way of example, I would probably not chose to use Totilas (even if I could afford him and wanted to breed a top class dressage horse), because I have a suspicion he is very much "made", not "born", and at the moment, there is no guarantee he would pass that on to his offspring (because there isn't any!). On the other hand, I have picked completely unproven 3 year old colts, just on the basis of their "natural" way of going / jump / etc...

Two of the horses I liked best last week-end were not at all flashy. Uptons Deli Circus & Challon Z . Uptons Deli Circus looks like a big pony, but he can move, has progeny at 3 * (I think, someone correct me if I'm wrong), could be handled by a 10 year old from what I saw of him & would breed a great amateur competition or pleasure horse, depending on the mare. Challon Z looks like someone's old RC gelding in the stable (and behaves like it), but boy he can move and jump and has a beautiful attitude to work. He is also not ridden by a professional - in fact his owner rode him well into her pregnancy.  

The point I am trying to make is there are so many stallions with great temperament and attitude to work, who could throw foals that could equally go for the amateur, professional or pleasure market, without being too sharp or difficult to ride - look at Jumbo! We have 2 on the yard, one just hacks out with his middle-aged owner, the other hunts all winter, and Jumbo is still very high up on the list of best sire of top class eventers... There is no reason for anyone to compromise movement/style/performance for temperament.

So, going back to my original point, I do wish Sonyac814 all the success & enjoyment in the world with her lovely horse.

I have one question though. He is 12 and this is only his 2nd season at stud. Any particular reason?


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## Sam M (13 February 2011)

I've seen King Cotton Gold a number of times now, both in competition and at the Addington Stallion parade. I have to say, each time I've been massively impressed... I saw part of his video from Blaire and his attitude and scope Cross Country was quite superb, (he didn't fall there but slipped up on the flat... along with quite a few others). I found out a bit about his history too. Apparently he successfully Show Jumped up to 1.40m as a 6/7yr old in Ireland as well. 

I think what I liked most about this stallion was his intelligence, he seemed quick with his feet, really eager to please and looks very straight forward to ride. Movement wise I thought he was fair to good, but I think if he'd been in the hands of a professional from day one he's capable of a lot more expression. As an Event sire I can't think of a much better choice to put on a TB mare, he'd give bone, jump, movement and trainability. He looked so good Cross Country I'd like to watch some more, if anyone know's how I can get hold of some footage please let me know.    
Thanks, 

Sam


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## Bearskin (13 February 2011)

Sonyac814 said:



			I am so excited to see this discussion!! First I must declare my bias...I'm King Cotton Gold's owner and afraid also his rider, so first for the good news...I am not hereditary! I'm afraid I have to confess to just being an enthusiatic amatuer who has stumbled across this fabulous stallion and won't let go! (look at my eventing record...I'm rubbish!) I do realise my riding has a lot to be desired and I look a bit shoddy in the arena straight after Pippa Funnel, and I may reconsider attemping dressage in my XC saddle again, however this is the whole point of King Cotton Gold!
Last summer, Oliver Townend asked for the ride on him and after much deliberation, for the time being, I said no. Possibly a mistake, but the point I am trying to make is that King Cotton Gold represents everything I think we are losing with modern sports horse breeding. I appreciate these modern wonder stallions, I really do, and I recognise that if you want to win an olympic gold in dressage of SJ, you probably need one, but the availability of AI to all and sundry means our livery yards are flooded with "sons of Arco" types that most normal riders like me just can't ride. They are blooming hard to sit on and pretty firey and spooky...you have all seen them and probably ridden them. 
King Cotton Gold harks back to the days of sound, safe sensible horses where even an enthusiastic amatuer can "have a go", maybe even get to Babminton one day, I won't win, but wow, wouldn't it be great!....and that's the point I am trying to make. He's taken me from PN to having a bash as 2* in two seasons, and yes, I'm afraid the falls were my fault...he is really clever actually... but the point is he jumped beautiful clears without the slightest hesitation next time out.
Re paces, it's true his trot is not flashy warmblood, but look at all the top eventers, they don't move like warmbloods because that sort of movement can lead to lameness when you put the kind of miles on that you need for an eventer. King Cotton Gold still has Grade 1 x-rays aged 12! And don't forget the paces you can't train so easily; the walk and canter are to die for and his jump is phenomenal, but I'm afraid I was too scared to jump higher than 1.20 at Addington! (see his scores from IHB and from the SSH grading...one of the hardest societies in UK to get licenced by). Its difficult not to see past those floaty, expressive prancing continental stallions, but whatever you choose to breed from, think long and hard about what you want. Is it an olympic champion, or do you want a little piece of magic and a lifelong friend who might just have the courage and heart to let you rub shoulders with the big boys one day....even if you are as rubbish as me!!
Wish us luck!!
		
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Well said.  Good luck this season.


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## maggiemoto (13 February 2011)

Well said, a tribute to both you and KCG. Good old fashioned honesty! Both in your post and the article which you wrote, which I mentioned in my earlier post.  For those of us for whom are horses are more than a commercial enterprise, we need sane, kind, trainable horses that will keep us safe and be great to have as companions.


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## Sonyac814 (13 February 2011)

Thanks all for your kind support and Sam, of course what am I thinking!! I have got footage! So everyone can judge for themselves what he's like when I'm a little less terrified!

I've got some great footage of him going cross country from Playback sports which will be appearing on the Horse and Country stud break after Monday. I'm going to download this onto his lovely new website ([URL removed in line with Breeding board guidelines]) as soon as I can, and I've also got some really terrible quality footage of a dressage lesson I had. Apologies in advance for quality, and I'm afraid the long clip (and you do have to watch all as I only get the hang of it nearer the end) is still me....the rubbish rider. However, there is also a teeny wee clip of him with a Grand Prix rider on him! I'm afraid its only one circle in walk and a half circle in trot, and its only the first few seconds she sat on him, but look at that walk!! She also had the trot great by the end. No canter I'm afraid and that's his best pace, but will soon sort that out!

links as follows
(me riding but not so paralysed with fear) [URL removed in line with Breeding board guidelines]

good rider (within seconds of sitting on him) [URL removed in line with Breeding board guidelines]

So that's what I'll do! I'll get a decent video of him with a decent rider and stick that on his website. Then we can discuss again...but I'll still love him no matter what!

Let me know what you think though, GP rider said he had fabulous hocks!


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## eventrider23 (13 February 2011)

You can definitely see the difference in him.....including with you as no nerves in the lesson compared to at a stallion show as you can see how much more relaxed he is with the longer, lower and relaxed outline and much more suspension in the trot....almost a different horse and truly showing his talent.


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## magic104 (14 February 2011)

Well I have just had a told you so & if nothing else he is getting plenty of publicity.   I am now looking forward to seeing photos of his offspring & arranging for the mare to be AI'd.  I just hope now the Fate's Olympic Gold actually gets conceived & born safely!


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## amy_b (14 February 2011)

well said. good luck for the future


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## eventrider23 (14 February 2011)

Well Magic at least you have a name for the foal...Olympic Gold!


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## Sonyac814 (14 February 2011)

Hey! Guess what!! 
I've just found this little clip of his only offspring at his first XC before his tragic accident!

This is the little fellow that started all of this! I got him from the elderly lady who originally bred KCG. As you know KCG only stood at stud for the first time last year, so no other babies, but as a colt he got into the field with this lady's looney 13hh Arab show pony (I blame the mare myself!) and this was the result. 

He was a phenomenal little fellow and after the accident I asked his breeder if she had anymore.
That's when she told me his father was still in Ireland. He had been with Maxie Sculley (the world bareback high jump record holder...ouch!) and had been showjumped by one of Irelands leading young showjumpers, so Sam... think you are correct...but the guy was killed in a car crash. Maxie had been too upset to let the horse go and hence the career break while he carried one of the Irish masters out hunting. (and no dressage schooling!) 

Maxie himself had just died, so the lady (who still owned him) sold him to me.

Anyway, probably hard to tell much given the dodgy camera work and the "unlikely" cross, but no doubt the little fellow had real class and an amazing attitude. This is him coming home from his very first XC. Touch of the old Hedingley Brittania don't you think? 

[URL removed in line with Breeding board guidelines]

Right I've bigged my lad up enough now...his new babies will have to do the rest of the talking!


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## magic104 (14 February 2011)

eventrider23 said:



			Well Magic at least you have a name for the foal...Olympic Gold!
		
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LOL, yes how often does that happen, a name before conception!


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## Chestnutnut (14 February 2011)

Thank goodness sense has prevailed!!

King Cotton Gold is a lovely example of an event type as confirmed by the Irish Horse Board who are in my opinion THE authority on what an event horse should be like given all the IHB world beaters, including all King Cotton Gold's relatives!
I didn't see KCG at Addington, but unless he was on 3 legs, you couldn't fail to see this horse's class, especially over a fence. A saw him at Osberton last year where he put in a flawless XC round in deep mud and would have ended well up the order had he not been withdrawn, quite rightly, in what was probably the worse conditions for showjumping I have ever seen! (Only about 8 horses jumped round out of about 200 starters). You point out Ginnie, none of the eventers "move well". I disagree. They move differently. They need to. An event horse can't waste time and energy up in the air. They need to jump, land, turn and gallop and stay sound in the most terrible of conditions. These continentals can't hold a candle to our British and Irish eventers which is why its the only discipline the Brits still excel in. (imagine jumping a four star drop on one of these huge jumping continentals....hello ground!!)
Please, please breed more! I for one will have your King Cotton Gold baby Magic if you ever want to sell!


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## magic104 (14 February 2011)

Chestnutnut said:



			I for one will have your King Cotton Gold baby Magic if you ever want to sell!
		
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Well thanks for that & if its a colt I will consider your offer.  Mind with foals being born this year I maybe too late for you.


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## GinnieRedwings (14 February 2011)

maggiemoto said:



			For those of us for whom are horses are more than a commercial enterprise, we need sane, kind, trainable horses that will keep us safe and be great to have as companions.
		
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I am not certain whether the above comment was aimed at me, but if was, may I say that if you knew me and read that, you would probably be ROFL right now...

I did also try and explain that there were lots of sane, kind, trainable stallions at Addington, who I liked very much... 



Chestnutnut said:



			You point out Ginnie, none of the eventers "move well". I disagree. They move differently. They need to. An event horse can't waste time and energy up in the air. They need to jump, land, turn and gallop and stay sound in the most terrible of conditions.
		
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Thank you for that, I know nothing about movement, conformation and breeding for purpose... 

I like to see people joining a public forum that is after all a place to express personal opinions, only to patronise other users and demolish their... hum... *personal opinions*. 

I have said several times that I wish Sonya all the luck for her & KCG's eventing carreers, and meant it. I also hope Magic104's foal will be the foal to make me eat my words!

But I reserve the right to have not liked him very much on the day and not ever see a point when I would like to use him.

That is my view, but wouldn't the world be a sad place if everyone liked the same things!


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## magic104 (14 February 2011)

I have said several times that I wish Sonya all the luck for her & KCG's eventing carreers said:
			
		


			Eat your words I doubt that, & I have to symphathise with you as last year I made comments on stallion & got grief for it as well.  We cant always like the same type of animal & as someone said its just as well.  I also hope KCG does well in the future along with his offspring & least he has passed 2 panels of judges.
		
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## angrovestud (14 February 2011)

I have been watching this post with a grea deal of interest, KCG is a good example of what we should be looking to breed in this country Quality sound rideable horses and I for one am looking forward to seeing his first foals.
I think that we in this country are taken in to much by fashion or the next quick sell! how nice it was to read so many people give this horse a chance go Sonia and KCG  will be rooting for you god luck


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## maggiemoto (14 February 2011)

GinnieRedwings said:



			I am not certain whether the above comment was aimed at me, but if was, may I say that if you knew me and read that, you would probably be ROFL right now...

I did also try and explain that there were lots of sane, kind, trainable stallions at Addington, who I liked very much... 



Thank you for that, I know nothing about movement, conformation and breeding for purpose... 

I like to see people joining a public forum that is after all a place to express personal opinions, only to patronise other users and demolish their... hum... *personal opinions*. 

I have said several times that I wish Sonya all the luck for her & KCG's eventing carreers, and meant it. I also hope Magic104's foal will be the foal to make me eat my words!

But I reserve the right to have not liked him very much on the day and not ever see a point when I would like to use him.

That is my view, but wouldn't the world be a sad place if everyone liked the same things!
		
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Hi, No my comment re commercial enterprises was not aimed at you at all! The point I was making was that for some of us, if not the majority of horses owners, we want a horse that is sane, etc. just as KCG's owner says.  Our horses compete regularly but they also go out on wonderful trekking hacks seeing trains, helicopters, lorries, tractors, pheasant shoots, etc and don't bat an eye, and as we are not big folks, we need horses that are kind and biddable around the stable and fun to be with, that was all. From what we have heard and seen, this is not always the case in some commercial yards, the horse has a job to do and as long as he does it, whether that comes with baggage,that is all that matters.


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## MoragN (20 February 2011)

I too have stumbled across this interesting post.  I am one who really appreciates this stallion, I was impressed by his adorable personality and impeccable manners the first time I saw him in the stable.  I then went and watched him compete and was equally impressed.  His scope and intelligence is clear to see when watching him cross country and yet he behaves impeccably outside the ring whilst warming up and standing around waiting.  He is a horse that I would love to ride and could imagine having hours of fun with, and for me that is more than enough in itself.  

I therefore have a mare in foal to him due at the end of April.  I cant wait to see my foal and if I have half of the fun with it that Sonya has with King Cotton Gold then I will be delighted.  Afterall, that is why we do it is it not.


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## Sonyac814 (7 March 2011)

Hi Morag!!

Great to see you on here and so looking forward to seeing your foal. Got website set up for pics so hope we can put your baby on the web.
Said I wouldn't big him up again, but do need to report the following.....its only fair on him! 
Had some lessons with Karon Carson who has helped me fix some of the timid riding issues and competed him pure dressage yesterday. 
King Cotton Gold won the class with over 71% with an 8 for paces in the collectives and I got 2 bookings from dressage people. So very pleased he is now a dressage stallion too.....and actually also quite grateful for the constructive criticism that has now let me show him off to his full potential.
I'll put the test on his site when ready at kingcottongold . com


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## magic104 (7 March 2011)

Can we also see some of his foals on here please?  I have been waiting for the madam to come in season so I can arrange the AI but she seems to have other ideas!  Typical, there were no problems last year, scans were fine, she was regular as clockwork, bloody horses!!


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## Maesfen (7 March 2011)

Magic!  I'm a great believer in sticking with my original ideas simply because if I change them, things are bound (and usually do)  go wrong but if I stick with them, things go well if that makes sense.  Happened to me time and time again so stick with your instincts and I hope you have a cracker.  
Think you might have to have a number behind Olympic Gold though, it's bound to be very popular, lol!


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## magic104 (7 March 2011)

Maesfen said:



			Magic!  Think you might have to have a number behind Olympic Gold though, it's bound to be very popular, lol!
		
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Aye, think you could be correct on that one!


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## MoragN (7 March 2011)

Fantastic news Sonya!!  I think your are right, you dont need to big up your boy.........he is doing that all by himself!!!  What fantastic percentages too, if you are going to do it...do it in style!!

Love the photo of him on the website too, will be lovely to see some foal pictures up there too!!

Cant wait to see my foal and will definately have lots of photos!!.........and yes Gold will definately be part of the name!  I can big up the boy too!!


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## magic104 (4 May 2011)

We have a blob & if everything goes well expecting a KCG foal next March


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## Maesfen (4 May 2011)

Will keep things crossed for you Magic as long as you'll do the same for me please.  I'm not even saying who and when, I'm that supersticious!


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## magic104 (7 May 2011)

Maesfen said:



			Will keep things crossed for you Magic as long as you'll do the same for me please.  I'm not even saying who and when, I'm that supersticious!
		
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Of course I will.  You probably have more sense then me, as it is a long haul to birthing let alone anything else!

Just found out my 4yo have 29pts in Nov Dressage http://www.britishdressage.co.uk/results/horse_record/43072 - Wish I could say I produced him but had to sell him last Apr.  I am proud of the fact he ended up with someone who has the experience to produce him so well.


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## Susan Torrance (31 May 2011)

We have a half brother to King Cotton Gold - a gelding Cornascriebe Cavalier, who like his half brother, is the nicest, bravest horse you could own. He was bred in Ireland too, but is probably too big for most folk at 17.2 hands.

My daughter is only eventing at BE100 level, but the fact that she can contemplate going novice this season with the prospect of enjoying it is entirely down to the honesty and temperament of the horse which I believe comes from Cavalier Royale.

Sonya is right - eventing isn't just about matching flashy riders and horses for rosettes - it is the personal acheivement of people bonding with their rides and certainly from a mother's point of view, it is about knowing they will look after eachother !

I would love to have a King Cotton Gold foal - we have a Clydesdale mare but have never bred anything ourselves - who knows ?


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## Sonyac814 (14 July 2011)

Well King Cotton Gold foalies are arriving and I think we can safely say WE ARE DELIGHTED!!
Winner and reserve overall supreme hunter at Cornwall County (pretty impressive for a foalie!)! Winner at Fettercairn Agricultural, second at the Royal Cornwall, Winner and supreme overall hunter champion at Haddington, and those are just the little fellows who have been taken out already! Lots of black babies with white blazes and white legs too (which is always nice!)
Additional great news is the only adult son to date of King Cotton Gold has returned from a fractured pelvis as a youngster and is competing again going clear Novice with a great dressage score after only 4 outings and winning a small hunter show class and the overall supreme hunter championship. Looking forward to BEF results, but think King Cotton Gold foals doing the talking now!.

And as for King Cotton Gold himself....rider now drastically improved dressage to post some low 30 scores and now won too many points to swim in the little ponds any more so King Cotton Gold going 2* international this year. He really is a bit of a hero!


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## AMH (14 July 2011)

Sonyac814 said:



			Well King Cotton Gold foalies are arriving and I think we can safely say WE ARE DELIGHTED!!
Winner and reserve overall supreme hunter at Cornwall County (pretty impressive for a foalie!)! Winner at Fettercairn Agricultural, second at the Royal Cornwall, Winner and supreme overall hunter champion at Haddington, and those are just the little fellows who have been taken out already! Lots of black babies with white blazes and white legs too (which is always nice!)
Additional great news is the only adult son to date of King Cotton Gold has returned from a fractured pelvis as a youngster and is competing again going clear Novice with a great dressage score after only 4 outings and winning a small hunter show class and the overall supreme hunter championship. Looking forward to BEF results, but think King Cotton Gold foals doing the talking now!.

And as for King Cotton Gold himself....rider now drastically improved dressage to post some low 30 scores and now won too many points to swim in the little ponds any more so King Cotton Gold going 2* international this year. He really is a bit of a hero!
		
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I've just picked up this thread today and I'm delighted that there are still people who are happy to stand one stallion and compete it themselves. I've never seen your chap in the flesh but this has prompted me to check him out on the web and he looks a cracking type and so honest. 

I sympathise with those who have said that he didn't 'do it for them' on a particular day - having attended stallion licencings held over several days I'm sometimes amazed by day 3 at the comments I've made about particular horses on day 1! And, in continental breeding, some very good stallions have no sort of performance record themselves other than a (very rigorous) performance test - it's their progeny which speak for them.

I hope that you continue to enjoy your boy and that his progeny go on to great things.


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## magic104 (14 July 2011)

Mare still in-foal & still in work (though had to take some time out went lame from a back muscel problem).  She really is enjoying being in work, so loath to take her out just yet.  Been keeping an eye on KCG through FB etc & so pleased to have doubts put to bed.  Still got another 8mths or so to go, so a long way off yet.


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## alfiesmum (18 July 2011)

so excited for magics babys arrival, following thread and now willhave to remember in march to look out for your new foalie posts x


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## magic104 (20 July 2011)

alfiesmum said:



			so excited for magics babys arrival, following thread and now willhave to remember in march to look out for your new foalie posts x
		
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It will be photo overload!


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## alfiesmum (20 July 2011)

how far along is she at the moment magic? take first time? x


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## magic104 (20 July 2011)

Its 100 days today, & she took on the 2nd attempt.  She is fit & well & I have everything crossed that we get a nice healthy foal.  She wont have anymore foals as she is destined to stay in work, she has turned out to be to honest to waste time breeding.  She has 2 full TB offspring with her previous owner which are destined for the racetrack.  It is hoped this one will make it as an eventer.


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## Chestnutnut (4 August 2011)

magic104 said:



			Eat your words I doubt that, & I have to symphathise with you as last year I made comments on stallion & got grief for it as well.  We cant always like the same type of animal & as someone said its just as well.  I also hope KCG does well in the future along with his offspring & least he has passed 2 panels of judges.
		
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There is going to be some word eating going on!!! Saw KING COTTON GOLD at the 2* at Hopetoun International. He looked absolutely breath-taking and absolutely nailed a hugh XC track. Posted a very respectable dressage score against an international field too. Go Sonia! Understand the babies are doing well too! Remembered this discussion, had a giggle, and thought I would send the update. Def want you foal now!


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## magic104 (4 August 2011)

I am more then happy to eat humble pie as so far my mare is carrying one of his foals.  I can assure you I am more then happy to have been wrong in my judgement.  I have another reason for KCG doing well and if he proves someone else wrong I shall be over the moon, as he is quick to slate other peoples stallions.  So well done to all of KCG's connections, carry on the good work.


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