# Ringbone, is there any hope? :(



## Paint it Lucky (5 January 2015)

My horse was diagnosed with articular ringbone back at the beginning of October having been not quite right for a while.  Vet x-rayed and found quite clear bone deposits on the front of both his coffin and fetlock joint.  He advised three months off then re-check, he's just come out to dot he re-check and horse is still noticeably lame, I knew this but as vet was on yard for different things I got him to look anyway just for his advice.  Vet says give him another three months then see.  He didn't re-x-ray him this time as not really any point but you can see the ringbone now externally as a small hard lump above the top of his hoof.   My horse lives in at night and is out during the day, he doesn't wear shoes, he hasn't done for over five years now and has always seemed to have good feet.  To me he doesn't look much sounder now then when this all started and I am wondering if he'll ever get better as right now it doesn't look very promising.  I've tried him on various supplements, bute initially although I didn't want to use this long term, so tried turmeric which didn't make much difference if any.  He's currently on No Bute by Feedmark, I'm not sure if it helps much as he's clearly still lame but he doesn't seem unhappy so presumably he's not in too much pain?  He still runs around the field when he feels like it, I know that perhaps this is detrimental to his foot but I'd rather see him happy out and moving around then keep him box-rested in the hope he might possibly come sound when in reality it's fairly unlikely he will.  Just wondering if anyone had any experiences to offer or advice?  I just feel quite helpless at the moment as there doesn't seem to be much I can do.  Vet has given a fairly bleak prognosis.  I've had my horse 8 years, he's my best friend and owes me nothing.  If I have to retire him that's fine, he's only 15 so not that old really.  Obviously it would be lovely if he did come sound again though I know he'll never event again like he used to or be able to do anything strenuous.  Part of me worries that what if it gets worse and even walking around becomes too painful for him?  Anyway sorry this is becoming quite long.  I know there isn't really a miracle cure but if anyone has any advice or stories of their own horses it would be appreciated.


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## Red-1 (6 January 2015)

My husband's Charlie Horse had Ringbone, it came on lame quite suddenly and the bone deposit was sych that if the horse was walking gently he was sound, but if he had the weight of a rider, or trotted then the joint flexed enough that the extra bone came into play and he was in extreme, groaning, almost throwing himself on the floor pain.

The vet advised rest to see if it calmed down, but the farrier looked at the Xrays and just shook his head.

For piece of mind we gave it 6 weeks, at the end of which he was still sound in walk, but again as soon as you asked for even a little jog in hand he was groaning and almost on the floor. He had also stopped lying down in the stable, I think because he was in pain getting up. When a grey horse is still pearly white in the morning it is a bad do.

We had photos the day before he went, he looked fantastic, and when he was PTS he came out onto the lawn sound in walk, and looking like he was prepared for a show. It was his time.

I hope your story has a happier ending, but we do not regret PTS.


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## Welly (6 January 2015)

Hi if he comes sound on a  bute why not use bite/ danillon he will never compete but would be able to hack or even hunt he will let you know when its not working. with  luck you can have many happy years with him we did, by the way we did this with the vets approval.


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## YasandCrystal (6 January 2015)

I have a 5 yr old mare with aggressive ringbone on one fore fetlock. I gave her a year off and she was still unsound on a circle on hard ground. I have her on turmeric pepper and oil and she is in foal now. She is field sound and happy to buck and gallop about her paddock. 
Her ringbone is quite severe and there is a noticeable bump. The bump is now hard and cool, so I am hopeful she will be sound enough for ridden work again later this year. I think that I will always have to be cautious of the ground conditions to ensure her comfort.  I really believe that the turmeric treatment is helping her. It is a strong anti oxidant and anti inflammatory so will help to reduce inflammation and toxins associated with arthritis given in the correct dosage. Did you feed the pepper and cold pressed oil OP? I only ask as without these turmeric does nothing.


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## Troggy (6 January 2015)

Following this post with interest. 

My 7 year old was found to have a chip fracture in his off fore coffin joint last July along with arthritis in both coffin joints, he was operated on and also had both joints medicated. Built up his work slowly (6 weeks walk etc) but had delays due to recurring ulcers. Then after 5 months (and very gentle trot work, not even started canter or proper schooling) he was 2/10 lame in his near fore and the joints needed medicating again. I don&#8217;t have much experience of arthritis in this area, what&#8217;s the long term prognosis? Due to his ulcers ( which have cost 5k of insurance money and approx. 1k of mine so far to try and treat&#8230;.) long term painkillers are not an option.

The vet hasn&#8217;t referred to ringbone, when does arthritis in the area of lower ringbone, become ringbone? Or is it the same thing, just been called something different?

It&#8217;s possible the ulcers are caused by his foot pain, chicken and egg really.


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## YasandCrystal (6 January 2015)

Troggy ringbone is like arthritis I have pasted a definition below:

Ringbone in horses is a progressive, degenerative and performance limiting condition. With about 60 &#8211; 80 percent of all lameness being traced to a foot problem, ringbone is one of the many possible causes. Ringbone is a common term used to describe an osteoarthritis that affects the coffin joint (Low Ringbone) or the pastern joint (High ringbone).  You should also know that there is True ringbone and False ringbone. False ringbone means the ligaments and joint capsule supporting the joint have been injured. Put simply, true ringbone in horses is like arthritis, involving the joint cartilage itself. Ringbone got its name from the inflammation and extra bone formation around the joint that appears as a ring. 

For your horses ulcers you may find the following sure really helpful and informative:

Www.lunatunesfreestyles.com/horse_ulcers.htm

I have a WB who had ulcers which were treated with Gastro gard. I used a herbal regime following treatment as GG kills off all the good gut friendly bacteria and in order to reestablish this the herbal regime does the job. If you search 'green clay and chlorella' on here you will find a few posts from me regarding this. I used a holistic vet at Higham - she is a trained vet, osteopath and herbalist/acupuncturist. I also now use a classical trainer who focuses on balance and this has made such a difference to my horse and his movement which was so compromised for years.

And yes I agree re chicken and egg - my WB had undiagnosed chronic sacro illiac dysfunction at the time and the pain from this caused the ulcers. We treated the ulcers then got the SI problem diagnosed and treated and the ulcers haven't returned. He is on turmeric and pepper and micronised linseed which is very gut friendly. He also lives a very natural lifestyle, living out with shelter 24/7 and adlib hay/haylage. I give him limited hard feed just once a day and that consists of grass nuts and alfalfa and his supplements and salt.


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## 0310Star (6 January 2015)

I have a horse with high ringbone of the short pastern. She was diagnosed in January 2012 and was very lame when she went in for a work up and xrays. Vets medicated the joint and told me to work her lightly but she would probably never come sound. The vet advised shoes with pads and wedges but I disagreed with this as she was barefoot and doing very well like this. 6 months later she had only hacked, no schooling at all, and was sound, and when we went back for her follow up the vet was pleased. He suggested Tildren as he said she was a prime candidate, it has mixed reviews and only works for some horses but for her it did absolute wonders! 4 days after having it done it was like having a new horse! She was full of life and completely sound. Just under a year later the vet came out and re medicated with the Tildren as it was still covered on insurance and he was extremely pleased, since then she has been sound, she does all sorts of work but I don't jump her and I am careful with the ground. When the ground is hard we do no more than a walk and the same goes on the road unless I have to due to cars etc. I also try and keep her weight a little under perfect to help with the strain.
She is on 99% Glucosamine supplement and nothing else, she has the odd bute when needed like last Sunday we had a couple hour yard ride and she was at the front for most of it steaming ahead but I gave her a bute that night just as it was quite strenuous.

Ringbone isn't a death sentence, you just have to work out how to manage it and what works for your horse. I would definitely suggest speaking to your vet about what you can do with regards to medicating the joint or something like Tildren.

Good luck!


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## Dancing_Diva (6 January 2015)

Oh god I shouldn't have read this post this evening!

My 8yr old mare is off to the vets tomorrow morning for X-rays and nerve blocks as is lame on her front left but also slightly on the right!

We're looking at ringbone in one if not both fronts


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## skint1 (6 January 2015)

Wishing you and your horses the best outcome with their ringbone issues


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## Paint it Lucky (7 January 2015)

Thanks for the replies everyone.  I tried the turmeric for a few weeks with oil and pepper but I didn't notice much difference though to be fair the ringbone was still forming then so possibly nothing would have helped.  I may try it again in a higher doseage, was giving one teaspoon twice a day but think I will up it, just haven't found anywhere to buy turmeric in bulk yet and I run out very quickly otherwise.  It is nice to hear some horses have been ok.  I think my vet is quite old school as he doesn't tend to advise joint medicating for anything but I will talk to him about it as I was wondering about this.  I don't know if injecting steroids might help like you might do for hock problems?  Horse is still hobbling along but so long as he's not suffering I'll keep going and hoping for something to improve.  He's on 'No Bute' which is a largely herbal painkiller, reason I don't really want him on actual bute is because of all the internal problems it can cause, he's only 15 so could have another 15 years, maybe I try danilon instead?  Feeling a bit despondent but I guess it's just a case of wait and see mainly.


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## YasandCrystal (7 January 2015)

Paint it Lucky I have just changed my turmeric to buying the Global Herbs 2kg tub - I bought them from an online company for £8.79 a tub and free postage as I bought 6 tubs. That's cheaper than I was paying for guaranteed 3% curcumin turmeric and it as pepper added. I know the fb group says to add freshly  ground but I rarely have time and having 5 horses I prepare all the morning feeds the day before. I feed a heaped 30ml scoop and 14 grinds of pepper to every horse bar the 10hh pony who gets half that. I also give a generous mug of linseed. My young ISH mare is really moving well and the vet told me if she were a gelding he would have advised pts. I am only feeding once a day although I used to give the young mare 2 lots of turmeric a day but with her being in foal I am erring on the side of caution as I know it thins the blood.


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## 0310Star (8 January 2015)

I tried Turmeric but it really didn't work for my horse even with the pepper and oil so have just stuck with the glucosamine. 

My mare was diagnosed when she was 14 and I was also worried about the long term effects of Bute but the vet said not to worry as the ringbone would get her before the effects of bute. He also disagreed that using Danilon is any different to bute with regards to the long term effects.

I don't see the problem with buting for comfort when needed. A horse at my old yard was on 1 bute a day for ring bone and had been for many years, he wasn't far off 30 then and still going like a youngster! The bute just helped him along a little and kept him pain free with no adverse effects.


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## Adina (8 January 2015)

Many years ago a much loved horse of mine was in a road accident, he galloped off and hit something.  We don't know exactly what happened, but he ended up with a depressed structure the skull (2cm higher and he would have been dead). 2 weeks later we discovered high ringbone on a front fetlock.  This was thought to be due to a blow to the pastern resulting in new bone. The leg was put in a plaster - around the foot and up the leg. This meant box rest for 12 weeks, after which time the two bones were fused solidly together and the plaster was removed. He was brought in to work slowly, but went on to showjump and event. He was pain-free.


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