# Feeding Oats - Bruised or crushed?



## Jul (29 June 2010)

Not strictly CR sorry, but I only ever venture in here! (and it is for a comp horse)

I wanted to add bruised oats alongside my normal feed, but am having trouble getting hold of them, I can easily get crushed oats though.
Is there much difference does anyone know? All I have managed to find out is that crushed are a bit more digestible but have a shorter shelf life.


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## Halfstep (29 June 2010)

Crushed are like porridge oats, the husk is off, making them more digestible but less nutritious, and they keep for a shorter time.  Bruised or rolled oats have the husk on but broken; they are easier to break down but still have the advantage of the fibre in the husk.  I feed a diet of rolled oats, Hi Fi and a balancing supplement (oats send the calcium/phosphorous ratio off), it is a cheap and effective way of feeding IMHO.


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## BigRed (29 June 2010)

It is not completed accurate to say that crushed oats have their husk removed.  They are usually marketed as Naked oats.  You really want the husk on, because then they are a really good high fibre, feed.  They are very cheap when you compare them to mixes and nuts.  Especially as Halfstep says - if you are feeding a balancer, feeding oats and plain chaff is a really cheap and effective food, and they all love oats.


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## Jul (29 June 2010)

Thanks Halfstep - so if less nutritious but more digestible, then if added alongside my regular feed the effect would more likely be just the 'oat effect' than anything else?


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## juliap (30 June 2010)

I used to feed naked oats but he mustn't have been chewing them properly as the crows would go through his droppings & really spread them about to pick out the oats. We poo pick the fields & it made it a real chore. Someone suggest soaking them in water & letting them sprout but I never got round to trying it.

I switched to crushed oats which is a more effective for my horse than the naked oats which ended up as bird food!


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## flyingfeet (30 June 2010)

How about Tiger oats?
http://www.gwfnutrition.com/prod_tigeroats/index.htm
They have a balancer in them, so you don't need to add limeflour to balance the Calcium / Phosphorous ratio


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## marmalade76 (30 June 2010)

A farm local to me sells oats amongst other things. They roll the oats on site and you can buy them bruised or crushed (they call these 'flat' oats). The flat oats have their husks on. I tend to buy these as with the bruised oats you can see them whole in the droppings, with the flat oats you don't so I assume that the flat oats are easier to digest.

They are very cheap which is why I feed them.


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## Mike007 (30 June 2010)

Firstly, to clear up some apparent confusion here. Naked Oats are a particular variety of Oat with very little husk.They are not the same as the conventional Oat breeds which are crushed or Bruised. The only difference betwean Crushed and Bruised Oats ,is the gap betwean the mill rollers.They both contain the same percentage content as the whole Oat. The difference betwean the two ,is that the harder the Oat is crushed ,the more the contents are exposed to oxidation and resulting vitamin loss.Thus reducing the time they can be stored .


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## Jul (30 June 2010)

Thanks all, especially Mike!
So it's basically what I found out originally, ie crushed are easier to digest but have a shorter shelf life. They are also much cheaper (for me anyway).
Crushed it is then. Thanks!


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## gem2buc (30 June 2010)

Found the same issue with Naked Oats - passed straight through my boy! DOn't understand why if they are supposed to have their husk removed.


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## Mike007 (30 June 2010)

gem2buc said:



			Found the same issue with Naked Oats - passed straight through my boy! DOn't understand why if they are supposed to have their husk removed.
		
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As I said ,they are a different type of oat with very little husk. They grow that way,so the outer layer is still quite resistant to digestion. Hence they can pass straight through.Frankly I think they are a waste of time.IMO they still need to be bruised or rolled.


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## teddyt (30 June 2010)

You can actually feed oats whole. The horse has its own mill- its teeth! Its been proven that there is no increase in digstibility between whole and crushed/rolled oats- its just traditionally it was considered bad to feed oats whole.


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## Mike007 (30 June 2010)

teddyt said:



			You can actually feed oats whole. The horse has its own mill- its teeth! Its been proven that there is no increase in digstibility between whole and crushed/rolled oats- its just traditionally it was considered bad to feed oats whole.
		
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We shall have to agree to differ on that one.If Oats pass through whole undigested there is an overall decrease in digestability.Horses used to coarse hard forage eg in hot climates do grind their food more ,and can addapt to whole Oats ,for the average English horse it is pure waste.


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## catembi (30 June 2010)

I started this soaked oats malarkey about 2 1/2 weeks ago, soaking whole oats (which weren't easy to find) for 12 hours.

OMG, the amount of weight my 37 year old mare has put on!  Adrian loves them but is allowed hardly any as he's fat enough as he is but Trev the racer who could do with some more weight on him won't touch them.

Apparently soaking them turns them from fizzy energy to slow burn energy, but there seem to be tremendously technical scientific arguments that I don't pretend to understand for & against the soaked oats diet.  My oldie is looking fantastic for a very, very elderly TBx, so it's working for me!


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## teddyt (30 June 2010)

Mike007 said:



			We shall have to agree to differ on that one.If Oats pass through whole undigested there is an overall decrease in digestability.Horses used to coarse hard forage eg in hot climates do grind their food more ,and can addapt to whole Oats ,for the average English horse it is pure waste.
		
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Yep, we'll have to agree to disagree  I think horses teeth are perfectly capable of chewing an oat whole! therefore they dont pass through the gut partially digested.


more info here- (kentucky equine research- leading nutritional research scientists!)
http://www.ker.com/library/advances/206.pdf


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## Mike007 (1 July 2010)

teddyt said:



			Yep, we'll have to agree to disagree  I think horses teeth are perfectly capable of chewing an oat whole! therefore they dont pass through the gut partially digested.


more info here- (kentucky equine research- leading nutritional research scientists!)
http://www.ker.com/library/advances/206.pdf

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Have a good hard read of the reference you quote Teddyt,particularly"The diets
were 80% concentrate, 20% forage and the horses were fed to appetite."Do you feed your horse like this?? Frankly the animals were probably so overloaded on Oats that other limiting factors had come into play.Practical observation of horses and feeding shows that there is a significant benefit,Furthermore,it should be taken into consideration that in the whole Oat diet, a substantial amount of starches will arrive in the hind gut,which is basicly designed for breakdown of complex carbohydrates by bacterial action. No account of the hazards of this has been made.A further point to consider is that Horse owners do not buy grain at "off the combine "prices, Transport ,bagging marketing all have to be added on. So comparing like for like, the small cost of Rolling is lost against the benefits.None of the studies you refer to dispute that there is a benefit,Coleman merely considers it uneconnomic. The question is on what basis is he actualy calculating this. A ranch in Wyoming with a thousand tonnes of Oats in silos ,or a horse owner in Hazelmere buying it by the bag from the store.


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## teddyt (1 July 2010)

The link quotes several different researchers that have shown that different parameters of digestion arent affected significantly by processing, thats why i put it there. 

The cost of a bag of processed oats is probably similar to whole in this country, so yes, thats irrelevant. But i still dont think oats _have_ to be processed before feeding.

if you can buy rolled or crushed more easily then buy them! I was just pointing out that a horse is perfectly capable of crushing an oat itself. IMO!


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## Mike007 (1 July 2010)

True enough, Most horses most of the time can grind most of the oats with their teeth. Bruising and rolling increases the proportion. And not every horse has a good set of teeth. The big problem with all these studies ,is that there are so many variables . What ,for example determines the length of time spent chewing a mouthfull. In Colemans study,they fed Alfalfa cubes as well. This immediately brings in the question of how much did this encourage the horses to chew their food. Alfalfa cubes are quite hard,(certainly the ones I used to sell were). I have seen a lot of English horses struggle with them at first,till they learnt to grind them harder. Please dont think I am "having a go at you "|TeddyT. Its merely that I do enjoy an inteligent discussion with someone like you.


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## juliap (1 July 2010)

My horse has good teeth but he is very keen on his food so gobbles it down & doesn't chew properly - he ignores my requests to chew 10 times before swallowing. They were added to Alpha A & comp mix

Naked oats may be just as digestible as crushed but if they aren't chewed then can't do any good if they are going straight through. 

As with  many things horses are all different & what works with one doesn't with another.


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## teddyt (2 July 2010)

Yes, mike and julia- lots of variables and of course i agree some horses would be better off with the first part of the digestive process done for them. But thats why feeding is an art _and_ a science- i think you need both researched information and judgement to feed horses sucessfully. Scientific studies should never replace good old fashioned horsemanship but many things have moved on with feeding and i think it is important to recognise that some of the 'old' ways arent always the best anymore. There will always be exceptions but thats the golden rule of feeding- feed according to the individual.


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## wizzlewoo (2 July 2010)

I have to agree with the amazement that the startch levels within feeding Oats (crushed, rolled or bruised) have not been fully covered or even brought up?! Yes oats can be fed with a 'balancer' to compensate for the calcium/phosphate ratio but this does not eliminate the fact that the intake of starches from oats/cereals increases the levels of gastric acid in the stomach and so increases the risk of ulsers. Ulsers can go un detected for years before they are noticed. The OP said that they feed chaff and so yes there will be a higher amount of saliver produced when chewing to buffer the effects of the GA in the stomach but this must be fed in a high quantity per feed. The science of feeding has come on such a long way that i really do not understand why and how people are still feeding straight oats to a diet. Most feed companies have a comp or race mix that offers a good balance of oils, chaff and oats and reduced the risks assosiated with feeding straight oats. Yes straight oats might be cheaper to feed but it really is not a balanced (with or with out a balancer) or healthy way of feeding. Also just to point out, what does your horse use as an energy source when the oats have burned off and you still have another 1/2 hour of lesson to do if you have only fed oats, chaff and sugar beet? Sorry bit of a rnat but i just think that oats are a very miss understood fodder and should be used with care not just as a form of quick energy. 
As a feeding sugestion i would use a quality chaff such as a straw and alfalfa chop blend, oil (linseed) and a comp mix. If you still need more spark try adding a little race mix in.


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## Mike007 (2 July 2010)

Wizzlewoo,the reason I have not mentioned the starch levels in oats ,is because they are not particularly high in proportion to their protein and oil content. In fact the English oats tend to have an even lower content compared to Canadian Oats.In addition the amount of husk as fibre encourages chewing and salivation.The idea that feeding a horse on Oats can lead them to run out of energy during  a lesson did make me laugh. It  just doesnt work like that.


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## wizzlewoo (2 July 2010)

Sorry my post was not well worded, i was agreeing with your views on feeding oats. My comment on energy content was in reference to a comment made by a poster that they feed chaff, oats and sugarbeet, each to there own but i was mearly commenting on the fact that the energy resources of oats are short lived and many horses struggle to maintain enough energy from oats alone to complete a hard workout and can often be found to start lagging towards the end of a lesson/competition as there is not enough fuel in the tank from slower burning energy resources such as oils or enough quality fibre. I personally think there are better ways of feeding for energy than adding in straight oats. I do recognise that this has gone off the origional post.


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## Halfstep (2 July 2010)

wizzlewoo said:



			Sorry my post was not well worded, i was agreeing with your views on feeding oats. My comment on energy content was in reference to a comment made by a poster that they feed chaff, oats and sugarbeet, each to there own but i was mearly commenting on the fact that the energy resources of oats are short lived and many horses struggle to maintain enough energy from oats alone to complete a hard workout and can often be found to start lagging towards the end of a lesson/competition as there is not enough fuel in the tank from slower burning energy resources such as oils or enough quality fibre. I personally think there are better ways of feeding for energy than adding in straight oats. I do recognise that this has gone off the origional post.
		
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Well, I feed straight rolled oats (with chaff and sugarbeet and a calcium rich supplement). They are not fast release, they are slow release energy and the perfect feed for an already forward going horse who is in medium work (advanced dressage).  Oats are relatively high in fiber anyway, but the main dietary fiber comes from good constantly available forage. I don't know where you get the idea that feeding straight oats is "risky".  I've gone off feeding processed feeds (mixes) due to having horses with various issues such as food allergies, chronic low level diarrhea, behavioral blips.  The way I feed now I know exactly what the horse is getting and where it has come from.


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## wizzlewoo (2 July 2010)

Oh well just my views on the subject of feeding straight oats, it is a shame that you can not trust good well known feeding compaines when the feeds that they produce are formulated by top nutritionists that have spent years learing the ins and outs of a horses digestive system and what is good and bad for them. I will just ask then that is it coincidence that many feed companies are bringing out lower starch, high oil competition feeds that use minimal or no cereals? Could it be that they are on the same wave lenegth that high starch feeds are not the best way forwards? Lastly yes oats have a percentage of fibre in them but this does not mean that it should be thought of as a suitable form of fibre as it is not chewed enough by the horse and so does not counter the fact that there are high levels of starch entering the stomach and the gastric acid produced can be harmfull. The fibre content of oats is not high enough to be beneficial to the horse as there are other factors to concider when deciding if straight oats are a suitable form of feed to rely on. 

OOh this is proving to be an interesting post, i do like a good debate


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## Halfstep (2 July 2010)

I understand what you are saying about the feed companies and nutritionists, and accept that they have some brilliant products. However I don't accept that oats are a high starch diet, especially when fed at lower quantities (i.e. not a racehorse type ration) and when balanced by sufficient fibre. oat starches are more digestible than any other kind of cereal.  Plus, the energy content provided by a lot of mixes is based on barley.

Ps. here is an interesting abstract to an article on the various treatment of oats and their relative digestibility:

http://www.livestockscience.com/article/S0301-6226(05)00328-3/abstract


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## Saratoga (2 July 2010)

I always thought that the processed complete mixes (comp/racing etc) that companies produce were a lot higher in starch, sugar, additives etc than say feeding a fibre based diet (alfalfa, unmollassed beet, balancer, linseed, grass pellets etc) and adding oats as and when required??


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## Mike007 (2 July 2010)

wizzlewoo said:



			yes oats have a percentage of fibre in them but this does not mean that it should be thought of as a suitable form of fibre as it is not chewed enough by the horse and so does not counter the fact that there are high levels of starch entering the stomach and the gastric acid produced can be harmfull. The fibre content of oats is not high enough to be beneficial to the horse as there are other factors to concider when deciding if straight oats are a suitable form of feed to rely on. 

OOh this is proving to be an interesting post, i do like a good debate

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Please excuse my clipping your post to the point i want to address. Iagree that the fibre in the husk is to a great extent non digestible,but its importance is that it will prolong chewing and increase salivation which buffers stomach acidity.I personaly would add dried alfalfa (choped rather than cubed) and add corn oil.Alfalfa is great stuff ,balancing the calcium level and stopping the horse bolting his feed.But again I would idealy buy alfalfa as a straight because its composition can be very variable as can its levels of digestible fibre.Oils should be added at the point of use and not by a compounderbecause of oxidation problems. I do like a good debate too. I hope the OP doesnt mind our ramblings.


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## Jul (2 July 2010)

Mike007 said:



			I hope the OP doesnt mind our ramblings.

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Not at all Mike, all very interesting


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## teddyt (2 July 2010)

Sorry to add to the hijack op 

With regards to the energy content of oats- of the 3 main cereal grains fed to horses, oats have the lowest energy. With maize the highest and barley 2nd. But the energy is released more quickly following digestion than the other grains, hence oats' reputation for fizzing horses up. 

Maybe thats why compound mixes cause issues- it always makes me laugh that 'cool' mixes contain loads of maize covered in molasses.

I sort of get wizzlewoos point about running out of energy though (i think). Any cereal based feeds will give peaks and troughs of glucose and insulin after feeding, therefore peaks and troughs of energy. With fibre and oil the energy is released slowly, so you are less likely to 'run out' of energy at the end of a riding session. it does of course depend on timing of feeding relative to time and length of riding. If you are feeding a high cereal diet you do need to time the feeding of the meals carefully with exercise.


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## Mike007 (2 July 2010)

However the blood glucose level is realy irrelevant. There is only one organ in the body which actualy uses glucose,the brain . Muscles run on glycogen which is how the glucose is stored for use. A well muscled fit mature horse should be able to have sufficient reserves of energy for a lesson. (of course here often lies the problem). I would think steady slow release would be far more important to a hunter doin maybe five or six hours of work.It is also worth remembering that regardless of how well fed and fit a young horse is,it will not have the endurance of a mature horse.


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## teddyt (2 July 2010)

I wouldnt say blood glucose level is irrelevant. In response to a cereal meal, the body releases insulin. Insulin affects many energy pathways- including inhibiting oxidation of fats and increasing carbohydrate oxidation. Fatigue can therefore happen early in longer duration exercise because carbohydrate stores can be prematurely depleted. Fibre feeds on the other hand do not affect energy (muscle fuel) availability. Again, it all depends on the horse and the type and duration of exercise. I agree that most horses should be able to cope with a lesson! And yes, fitness is often the issue.


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## Stinkbomb (2 July 2010)

Im sorry but although very interesting most of this has gone over my head!

Can i ask, if Oats are one of the least energy giving grains, for what reasons do people feed them??? I always thought they were fed to increase energy?


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