# Find me a feed



## SpottedCat (7 April 2013)

Right, I need some ideas of obscure things I may not have tried which could help my horse please! The new mare just won't put on weight. Her regime is out for 5ish hours a day (no more because we aren't allowed to put forage in the field). Ad lib hay/haylage overnight (half and half as she eats more hay than haylage) - about 12-14kg eaten when she's in. Any more she won't eat, gets trampled in her bed. She's fed 1kg (dry weight) fibre beet split into 2 feeds, with balancer morning and night. 

She's fussy. Feeds which have been rejected are:

Winergy (all types)
Pure Feeds (all types)
Linseed
Equijewel
Dodson & Horrell (Conditioning feeds, high fibre nuts & equine sensitive)
Spillers (conditioning feeds)
Rowan Barbary mashes
Saracen (luminance & show pencils)
Baileys (condition cubes & topline mix)
Chaff unless heavily mollassed (which is a route I don't want to go down!).

She adores fibre beet, but if you add anything she rejects into it, she will tip the bowl over and stamp her front feet in the feed. 

I haven't tried topspec condition flakes yet, and she will grudgingly eat Saracen Releve. I have never had good results with Allan and Page feeds so they are off the list. I haven't tried oil yet. 

My current plan of action is to try her on Releve on the basis other people on the yard feed it and I can flog it to them if she goes off it - so far I have spent upwards of £100 on feed she'll eat grudgingly for a week or so then rejects. I will also try oil since it is cheap and I can use it at home if she won't eat it! Topspec are last on my list because I don't know anyone who feeds it so it is potentially very expensive!

I don't mind buying expensive things if she eats them, but there is no way I am shelling out for something like equitop myoplast. 

Anything else I should have thought of?


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## martlin (7 April 2013)

Have you tried the minty outshine? they make it in small bags/tubs as well, so smaller initial outlay.
And I know you say all pure feeds, but does that include the conditioning pellet? If she doesn't like chaff, the pellet might do the trick, perhaps?


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## toomanyhorses26 (7 April 2013)

Have you tried straights ? My tb can be a bit fussy - sometimes wolfs it down sometimes looks at it like I am trying to poison him  He now gets straights - oats,barley,linseed,alfa a molasses free and fast fibre - maybe worth a try as he costs me about half he was on this compared to the cube I was feeding


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## meardsall_millie (7 April 2013)

Alfa A / Alfa A Oil / Sugar Beet / Oil / grass pellets / alfalfa pellets?

My mare is VERY fussy and will eat all of the above (she also has micronised linseed - which sort did you try?) - and looks pretty good on it at the moment


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## SpottedCat (7 April 2013)

martlin said:



			Have you tried the minty outshine? they make it in small bags/tubs as well, so smaller initial outlay.
And I know you say all pure feeds, but does that include the conditioning pellet? If she doesn't like chaff, the pellet might do the trick, perhaps?
		
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Oh yes, it includes the conditioning pellet. 

Yes, should have mentioned, I have also tried adding dried mint to her feed, and apple juice. No deal, she does not like mint adding to her feed. 

I have tried mixing feeds together, keeping them entirely separate, damp/sloppy/dry/hot/cold water. 

My 'action of last resort' is grated carrot, but that is such a hassle I don't want to unless I have to, and she will eat as much fibre beet as you give her, so I don't need to! I am feeding the balancer at the rate for the weight she should be rather than what she is!


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## jakkibag (7 April 2013)

Grass nuts, blue bag from simple systems, havent met one yet that wont eat them,and i have a very fussy mare, soak them to cowpat consitency   I mix with speedibeet, but you could try mixing it into the fibrebeet, I also use linseed and a double handful of just grass/graze on, they wont break the bank either!


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## ihatework (7 April 2013)

Regarding equittop I have half a tub left sat in the garage, happy to post you a few measures so you can see if she will eat it.

2 cheap suggestions - grass nuts & oats


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## SpottedCat (7 April 2013)

meardsall_millie said:



			Alfa A / Alfa A Oil / Sugar Beet / Oil / grass pellets / alfalfa pellets?

My mare is VERY fussy and will eat all of the above (she also has micronised linseed - which sort did you try?) - and looks pretty good on it at the moment 

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Fibre beet is a mix of alfalfa and sugar beet, so that kind of covers that base? The linseed was micronised from Charnwood. She ate it for a week or two, then rejected it totally.


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## wench (7 April 2013)

I was going to suggest outshine. What about champion milk pellets? Have you tried Dodson and horrell fibregy chaff? Or just grass? Molichaff condition?


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## soulfull (7 April 2013)

Baileys Outshine is great and you don't have to feed loads. Also echo the Alfa oil if she likes it. 
I had one that I had tried loads of feeds and couldn't get weight on, but the outshine did it


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## SpottedCat (7 April 2013)

Not tried straights - does mean buying bags of stuff I can't get rid of as don't know anyone else who feeds it.

IHW - did the EM do what it is supposed to? It is so expensive!!

Grass nuts - what would they give me in terms of conditioning which she isn't getting from what she eats currently?


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## scots (7 April 2013)

Grass nuts - soak them - either sloppy or dryer depending on your horses preference - get from local feed merchant - roughly 12% sugar no starch and really helps put n weight - haven't met a horse yet who doesn't eat them

And I pay £7.50 a bag - I use 1kg a day so £12 a month on feed!! (I add linseed but if yours won't eat it try normal oil)


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## alwaysbroke (7 April 2013)

My top tip, for fussy eaters who dont put on weight is to add Fenugreek, its the only thing that worked on OH's old lad, so fussy that he didn't like carrots use it currently for one of the others who tends to drop weight and muscle coming out of winter, its cheap to feed but downside is they smell like an Indian takeaway


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## bellatrix (7 April 2013)

Have you tried the Mollichaff Showshine (by Horsehage) cherry flavoured chaff, trying to think of yummy fruit flavoured horse feeds  Low molasses but with soya oil etc maybe she would eat that if mixed in with her fibre beet? They also do the herbal and apple varieties 
There is the simple systems feed too, friends horse was picky but tucks into the Lucie Nuts and their other products.


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## SpottedCat (7 April 2013)

Yes - chaff in all forms is rejected unless heavily mollassed. Obviously I haven't tried every single permutation on the market, but everything I have tried is not edible.

Outshine was one of the Baileys ones which I had a sample of, missed it off the list, sorry, you can see why I am forgetting things can't you?!


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## meardsall_millie (7 April 2013)

Possibly try the oil then - but add it very slowly as it's quite hard to get them to accept it (from bitter experience  )

Re: Top Spec.  I did have the mare on it for a considerable amount of time (because she would eat it) but although she looked good on it to begin with I was never completely happy.  I've since dropped back to basics + a powder balancer, all of which is proving easier and much cheaper!


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## SpottedCat (7 April 2013)

alwaysbroke said:



			My top tip, for fussy eaters who dont put on weight is to add Fenugreek, its the only thing that worked on OH's old lad, so fussy that he didn't like carrots use it currently for one of the others who tends to drop weight and muscle coming out of winter, its cheap to feed but downside is they smell like an Indian takeaway

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She says thanks but no thanks to fenugreek. Another thing I forgot from the list


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## alwaysbroke (7 April 2013)

SpottedCat said:



			She says thanks but no thanks to fenugreek. Another thing I forgot from the list 

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Thats a shame


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## SpottedCat (7 April 2013)

Oh yes, and I have had her scoped for ulcers, what with my advanced ulcer paranoia and all


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## kit279 (7 April 2013)

Have you tried adding Guinness to things? I tried it with Kallie, who was (and is) a painfully slow eater and quite fussy and it was a roaring success.

Alternatively, just old-fashioned mollassed sugar beet with oil has done wonders for Kallie who has always been thin and now is chubby :O


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## ihatework (7 April 2013)

Grass nuts (northern crop driers) are 4% higher in protein than FB with a comparable DE. Does she limit how much FB she will eat or can you just increase the volume of that?

I'd be very tempted to try oats. 

The EM worked too well, I ended up taking turbo off it as he was getting too chunky!!


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## millitiger (7 April 2013)

I've used the Topspec Super Conditioning Flakes on a very fussy and hard to keep weight on horse.

He wouldn't eat mix, nuts, chaff, sugarbeet etc etc but would happily eat the flakes.

I haven't found oil easy to get into fussy eaters but micronised linseed in small quantities seems to go down better as long as you don't try to overload them.


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## meardsall_millie (7 April 2013)

Just another thought (and I know it's hard when you work full time and are on livery) but could you give her more feeds per day - each feed smaller but more overall?  

My mare certainly doesn't like to be overfaced with her grub and will tip a big bucketful over and walk away.


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## alwaysbroke (7 April 2013)

Another thought barley rings? used to feed them soaked with warm water


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## SpottedCat (7 April 2013)

Ok, so grass nuts: Same DE as Fibre Beet, higher protein. Hmm, could work but not sure of the benefit. Releve has slightly higher DE. Tiger Oats have a higher still DE, so could also be worth trying I think.


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## SpottedCat (7 April 2013)

ihatework said:



			Grass nuts (northern crop driers) are 4% higher in protein than FB with a comparable DE. Does she limit how much FB she will eat or can you just increase the volume of that?

I'd be very tempted to try oats. 

The EM worked too well, I ended up taking turbo off it as he was getting too chunky!!
		
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Interesting re EM! I have been considering tiger oats. I guess I need to get brave as we are talking about a 5yo TB here though she is v laid back!

She will eat as much fibre beet as I want to give her, so I can increase that, though volumes look a bit horrific once it is soaked! 



meardsall_millie said:



			Just another thought (and I know it's hard when you work full time and are on livery) but could you give her more feeds per day - each feed smaller but more overall?  

My mare certainly doesn't like to be overfaced with her grub and will tip a big bucketful over and walk away.
		
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It's not volume - she'll eat as much fibre beet as I want to feed. Impossible to add in more feeds - can't do it otherwise she'd be on 4 feeds a day now. 



alwaysbroke said:



			Another thought barley rings? used to feed them soaked with warm water
		
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Could do - not been brave enough to try things like that as she is a young TB!


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## Jools2345 (7 April 2013)

i would try grass nuts and high fibre cubes


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## RachelFerd (7 April 2013)

Adding oil is probably not going to work, as it can put even fairly good eaters off their food - yours sounds a bit of a nightmare!

I would stick with the ReLeve, personally. It's a great feed, I have known horses get fully racing fit on ReLeve and look and feel a picture. Equally, have you tried adding a splash of mollasses to any of these feeds? I know it's not ideal in the long run, but if it worked to get her eating, you may find you could then gradually wean her off it. I have also had success adding neat ribena, or mixed vegetable juice to fussy horses feeds.

My horse would not touch grass nuts - he has an aversion to all soaked feeds other than mollassed sugar-beet (which he only had in the middle of winter as an extra top-up). He is actually happiest on plain cubes, we are now on the Saracen show improver pencils which he is now looking quite well on.


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## SpottedCat (7 April 2013)

millitiger said:



			I've used the Topspec Super Conditioning Flakes on a very fussy and hard to keep weight on horse.

He wouldn't eat mix, nuts, chaff, sugarbeet etc etc but would happily eat the flakes.

I haven't found oil easy to get into fussy eaters but micronised linseed in small quantities seems to go down better as long as you don't try to overload them.
		
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She def won't eat linseed - even a quarter of a cup in a big scoop soaked fibre beet = instant rejection of feed. I've found the same re oil which is why I haven't bothered trying it yet. Topspec conditioning flakes are on the list of things to try.....


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## SpottedCat (7 April 2013)

Jools2345 said:



			i would try grass nuts and high fibre cubes
		
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As above - she won't eat high fibre cubes. Grass nuts don't seem to give me anything the fibre beet isn't already giving me.


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## ihatework (7 April 2013)

If she will eat unlimited FB then I'd give that to her ad lib in a trug overnight (possibly in field too if out alone).

Then while she is eating releve give her small feeds of that. Keep the oats / grass nuts as back up later!


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## SpottedCat (7 April 2013)

RachelFerd said:



			Adding oil is probably not going to work, as it can put even fairly good eaters off their food - yours sounds a bit of a nightmare!

I would stick with the ReLeve, personally. It's a great feed, I have known horses get fully racing fit on ReLeve and look and feel a picture. Equally, have you tried adding a splash of mollasses to any of these feeds? I know it's not ideal in the long run, but if it worked to get her eating, you may find you could then gradually wean her off it. I have also had success adding neat ribena, or mixed vegetable juice to fussy horses feeds.

My horse would not touch grass nuts - he has an aversion to all soaked feeds other than mollassed sugar-beet (which he only had in the middle of winter as an extra top-up). He is actually happiest on plain cubes, we are now on the Saracen show improver pencils which he is now looking quite well on.
		
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It has me at my wits end - she just looks so awful  

I thought the same re oil. Haven't tried mollasses as she's a 5yo TB and I quite like my life  I haven't been able to add anything she disapproves of to fibre beet (which she adores) so I am unconvinced I could persuade her to eat something using additives - apple juice, dried mint, peppermint oil and spearmint have all failed. She won't eat the show pencils.


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## ester (7 April 2013)

tiger oats are really tasty


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## SpottedCat (7 April 2013)

ihatework said:



			If she will eat unlimited FB then I'd give that to her ad lib in a trug overnight (possibly in field too if out alone).

Then while she is eating releve give her small feeds of that. Keep the oats / grass nuts as back up later!
		
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I don't think I can feed it ad lib - she will literally keep eating it, I think she would ignore forage in preference for it. I suspect we'd get through a sack at a time! I can up it, although I have a suspicion that there is a sensible limit which I need to find, as she was on a lot more of it and became utterly unreasonable.....she's normally angelic. There is a possibility the unreasonable was saddle not feed, but it is something I need to consider. 

She's in a group, so no way to feed her in the field. She's not going to be out 24/7 until either the grass grows or she's put on weight - she'll have to keep coming in for at least part of the time to get food and forage into her. 

Honestly, what she needs is to be in a field of knee high grass, but who has one of those at the moment?!


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## kit279 (7 April 2013)

It might also be that you are feeding the weed - is she still growing height wise?  My father always said that it's hard to put weight on a horse that's growing up rather than out! Still stand by my suggestion of Guinness though


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## SpottedCat (7 April 2013)

ester said:



			tiger oats are really tasty 

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That makes it sound like you eat them! They are on the list as I have used them in the past successfully.


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## SpottedCat (7 April 2013)

kit279 said:



			It might also be that you are feeding the weed - is she still growing height wise?  My father always said that it's hard to put weight on a horse that's growing up rather than out! Still stand by my suggestion of Guinness though 

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Sorry, missed that one! I could try Guinness! 

No, she's not going up as far as I can tell - and this isn't just growth IMO - she looks poor and should look a lot better considering what she's being fed. Vet says don't get too involved in whether it is something else until the grass has come through. 

For the record, worming also up to date and she's well rugged!


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## ester (7 April 2013)

we used to get taster bags from the equilibra rep when I worked at mole valley... and of all the feeds I have tried.... 

what was she eating before you had her or is she just in more work now?- ps I hope you're requesting samples rather than having a spare sack of everything on the list!


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## only_me (7 April 2013)

Boiled oats? Or boiled barley added to her beet?

Boiled oats have really picked bill up, looks much much better now. Highly platable and tasty!
Karron oil is very good as well. Could be worth adding pink powder to her feed to make sure that she is getting as much as she can from her feed as well


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## jakkibag (7 April 2013)

Id use it as well as the fibre beet! rather than one or the other, have you tried dried grass instead of chaff?


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## SpottedCat (7 April 2013)

ester said:



			we used to get taster bags from the equilibra rep when I worked at mole valley... and of all the feeds I have tried.... 

what was she eating before you had her or is she just in more work now?- ps I hope you're requesting samples rather than having a spare sack of everything on the list!
		
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I spent an afternoon ringing all the feed companies and getting samples sent after my rather expensive pure feeds/equijewel/linseed experiment!

She wasn't on anything much - she didn't look great when I bought her. I am seriously limiting her work because of this.


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## MegaBeast (7 April 2013)

Ditto trying dried grass rather than chaff.

Sounds very similar to my mare who was a complete nightmare to get weight on and would keep moving the goal posts with what she liked, think I tried virtually every feed and possible combination under the sun with her.

Eventually I had her on D&H Just Grass, Castle Horse feeds Cool Cubes and flaked Barley and she would eat that happily and really put the weight on.  I was wary about feeding Barley but it did wonders for her and I fed magnitude to keep her calcium/magnesium balance right.


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## nikkimariet (7 April 2013)

I know I cr@p on about it a lot, but fenugreek powder?

Cheap as chips, you can buy in teeny pouches online to trial and has made a huge difference to Fig.


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## RachelFerd (7 April 2013)

I genuinely don't think a splash of molasses would make the slightest difference in her behaviour. Tiger Oats are rocket fuel - now those could cause major explosions!

PS. 5yo TB is an old and sensible one in my world  

But I do believe that a lot of 'behaviour' that we assume comes from food, is more often than not, unrelated. Years ago we thought that Ferd was explosive on alfalfa, but actually, it was an unrelated incident with riding technique, nothing to do with the alfalfa (which he is 100% fine on)


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## SpottedCat (7 April 2013)

nikkimariet said:



			I know I cr@p on about it a lot, but fenugreek powder?

Cheap as chips, you can buy in teeny pouches online to trial and has made a huge difference to Fig.
		
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Won't eat it. I did a forum search and tried everything which was thrown up as a possibility but was a bit of an oddity before asking this


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## SpottedCat (7 April 2013)

RachelFerd said:



			I genuinely don't think a splash of molasses would make the slightest difference in her behaviour. Tiger Oats are rocket fuel - now those could cause major explosions!

PS. 5yo TB is an old and sensible one in my world  

But I do believe that a lot of 'behaviour' that we assume comes from food, is more often than not, unrelated. Years ago we thought that Ferd was explosive on alfalfa, but actually, it was an unrelated incident with riding technique, nothing to do with the alfalfa (which he is 100% fine on)
		
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I do think you're right actually, on both counts. That said, do you want to come and ride her whilst we find out?! 

It's more that the fibre beet is the thing she loves most in the world, and if adding even a small amount of something she rejects to it = her not eating it, I don't think disguising things will work long term?


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## SpottedCat (7 April 2013)

MegaBeast said:



			Ditto trying dried grass rather than chaff.

Sounds very similar to my mare who was a complete nightmare to get weight on and would keep moving the goal posts with what she liked, think I tried virtually every feed and possible combination under the sun with her.

Eventually I had her on D&H Just Grass, Castle Horse feeds Cool Cubes and flaked Barley and she would eat that happily and really put the weight on.  I was wary about feeding Barley but it did wonders for her and I fed magnitude to keep her calcium/magnesium balance right.
		
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Dried grass could be worth a try!


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## vic07 (7 April 2013)

Some blue chip? 

Or really good quality Haylage?


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## RachelFerd (7 April 2013)

If you can get enough Releve into her, it is a great feed (and much more nutrient rich than most others suggested on here). If she will eat this in combination with an increased ration of Fibre Beet you would think that she definitely *should* put condition on. 

However, like me, you are probably just going to have to play a little bit of a waiting game for the grass to come through - I know my lad will look so much better as soon as he has some good green stuff in his system. No troubles getting him to eat that!

Also have you tried feeding her with one of the mangers that hook over the door? If they are the sort of horse that likes to keep an eye on the yard, they are sometimes happier to eat if they can look out at the same time. Mine has to have all feed on or next to the door for him to clear it all up properly.


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## TheMule (7 April 2013)

I feel your pain!
Used to go through this with Moon, until I found a farm where she has proper grass year round. Before that, my best success was with. Rolled barley which she seemed to eat quite well


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## SpottedCat (7 April 2013)

vic07 said:



			Some blue chip? 

Or really good quality Haylage?
		
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She's on a balancer - it's comparable to blue chip. She will only eat limited quantities of haylage. I wouldn't mind buying it in, but forage is included in our livery and I don't think I'd get through bales fast enough. 



RachelFerd said:



			If you can get enough Releve into her, it is a great feed (and much more nutrient rich than most others suggested on here). If she will eat this in combination with an increased ration of Fibre Beet you would think that she definitely *should* put condition on. 

However, like me, you are probably just going to have to play a little bit of a waiting game for the grass to come through - I know my lad will look so much better as soon as he has some good green stuff in his system. No troubles getting him to eat that!

Also have you tried feeding her with one of the mangers that hook over the door? If they are the sort of horse that likes to keep an eye on the yard, they are sometimes happier to eat if they can look out at the same time. Mine has to have all feed on or next to the door for him to clear it all up properly.
		
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Ha - tried the manger over the door thing as I thought the same - knocked it across the yard. Repeatedly! At least when she knocks over the skip she'll hoover fibre beet off the floor! I agree, I think she needs grass and lots of it. If only it were that simple, the fields look so dreadful 



TheMule said:



			I feel your pain!
Used to go through this with Moon, until I found a farm where she has proper grass year round. Before that, my best success was with. Rolled barley which she seemed to eat quite well
		
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I think grass is exactly what she needs, but it's just not something I have access to sadly. I will add rolled barley to the list. She reminds me of Moon actually!

Damn you HHOers, I was hoping someone would have come up with something obscure I hadn't tried/thought of! I guess I will try ReLeve and see how we go.


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## TarrSteps (7 April 2013)

Have you mixed all of the other feeds in with FB? What about seperate bowls? (I know, it's a massive faff!) I have in the dim recesses of my brain some study with race horses where they found they ate up better if they were fed small amounts of seperate feeds rather than one big bucket mixed up.

What about feeding in a fixed manger or a tub with an enormous rock or slate or something in it, so she can't tip it?


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## SpottedCat (7 April 2013)

TarrSteps said:



			Have you mixed all of the other feeds in with FB? What about seperate bowls? (I know, it's a massive faff!) I have in the dim recesses of my brain some study with race horses where they found they ate up better if they were fed small amounts of seperate feeds rather than one big bucket mixed up.

What about feeding in a fixed manger or a tub with an enormous rock or slate or something in it, so she can't tip it?
		
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I have done both all mixed together, and all separate in one bowl and in different bowls. She hates the door manger, but likes the skip - she only knocks the skip over if something surprises her so it's accidental I think! It is very deliberate when she has something in it she doesn't like though, and then she stamps in the food very emphatically.


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## toomanyhorses26 (7 April 2013)

If she likes the texture of fibre beet could you soak pencils in a similar fashion so its a gruel type mix so she cant distinguish between the two different types of feed ?


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## SpottedCat (7 April 2013)

toomanyhorses26 said:



			If she likes the texture of fibre beet could you soak pencils in a similar fashion so its a gruel type mix so she cant distinguish between the two different types of feed ?
		
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If only she were so easily fooled  Have tried this.


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## nikkimariet (7 April 2013)

SpottedCat said:



			Won't eat it. I did a forum search and tried everything which was thrown up as a possibility but was a bit of an oddity before asking this 

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Christ alive, something fussier than Fig!!!!!

Everything else I'd suggest is already on here, but do hope you reach a long term solution


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## Roasted Chestnuts (7 April 2013)

I add dried mint or mint cordial to my boys feeds if hes being fussy, soon gets him munching.

I also end up taking the route of tough, you cant be that hungry if your not eating it. Took this stance a few years ago with him and he went a full week with just haylege, soon started eating what was in front of him.


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## dieseldog (7 April 2013)

Mine is fussy, eating is just not on her list of things to do.  Incredibly boring but hand feeding works, shove it under their nose and they seem to auto pilot eat it - but it reminds me of a spoilt brat being fed hand peeled grapes!

I also thought mine was well rugged but I put an extra one on her the other day and she put a lot of weight back on.  I think she has also got better about eating now she is at M's as there is a bit of competition and the rest of them get excited about it.

Just need the grass, but not too much


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## SpottedCat (7 April 2013)

Black Beastie said:



			I add dried mint or mint cordial to my boys feeds if hes being fussy, soon gets him munching.

I also end up taking the route of tough, you cant be that hungry if your not eating it. Took this stance a few years ago with him and he went a full week with just haylege, soon started eating what was in front of him.
		
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There's no way I can take the tough love approach - the RSPCA will get called. Mint doesn't work.



dieseldog said:



			Mine is fussy, eating is just not on her list of things to do.  Incredibly boring but hand feeding works, shove it under their nose and they seem to auto pilot eat it - but it reminds me of a spoilt brat being fed hand peeled grapes!

I also thought mine was well rugged but I put an extra one on her the other day and she put a lot of weight back on.  I think she has also got better about eating now she is at M's as there is a bit of competition and the rest of them get excited about it.

Just need the grass, but not too much

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Hand feeding doesn't work, I tried it! She's in a 450g HW rug with a neck....I've never owned a HW rug before, let alone one this thick! I have the competition angle covered - she's out with cobs


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## Roasted Chestnuts (7 April 2013)

SpottedCat said:



			There's no way I can take the tough love approach - the RSPCA will get called. Mint doesn't work.



Hand feeding doesn't work, I tried it! She's in a 450g HW rug with a neck....I've never owned a HW rug before, let alone one this thick! I have the competition angle covered - she's out with cobs 

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Why? Doesnt she have access to hay? My boy ws murder to keep weight on as well and I was hanging feeds every 4 weeks at one point and giving away minimum half bags of feed until my purse just went NO and it was getting silly. They will eat if hungry is my view now and I leave the feed in the stable.


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## Highlands (7 April 2013)

Peppermint essence worked for mine, what about that horse quencher stuff for them to drink, if they do carrot flavour might work. Sorry owner of native= hovers , fussiest s not a problem


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## SpottedCat (7 April 2013)

Black Beastie said:



			Why? Doesnt she have access to hay? My boy ws murder to keep weight on as well and I was hanging feeds every 4 weeks at one point and giving away minimum half bags of feed until my purse just went NO and it was getting silly. They will eat if hungry is my view now and I leave the feed in the stable.
		
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Aside from the fact that she eats fibre beet, and yes, she has ad lib forage as I've already stated, so this is entirely a moot point, I am entirely uncomfortable with not doing everything I can easily do to make sure she puts weight on - it's pretty ethically wrong IMO, sorry. I can't magic up grass, so I want to find something which will help her put on weight, and there was a chance someone on here had used something I hadn't come across which would help. As it turns out, my search has been pretty exhaustive, but what's the point in putting feed in front of her, and her then tipping it over and refusing to eat it? I might as well cut out the effort of filling the feed bowl!


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## Moomin1 (7 April 2013)

SpottedCat said:



			Right, I need some ideas of obscure things I may not have tried which could help my horse please! The new mare just won't put on weight. Her regime is out for 5ish hours a day (no more because we aren't allowed to put forage in the field). Ad lib hay/haylage overnight (half and half as she eats more hay than haylage) - about 12-14kg eaten when she's in. Any more she won't eat, gets trampled in her bed. She's fed 1kg (dry weight) fibre beet split into 2 feeds, with balancer morning and night. 

She's fussy. Feeds which have been rejected are:

Winergy (all types)
Pure Feeds (all types)
Linseed
Equijewel
Dodson & Horrell (Conditioning feeds, high fibre nuts & equine sensitive)
Spillers (conditioning feeds)
Rowan Barbary mashes
Saracen (luminance & show pencils)
Baileys (condition cubes & topline mix)
Chaff unless heavily mollassed (which is a route I don't want to go down!).

She adores fibre beet, but if you add anything she rejects into it, she will tip the bowl over and stamp her front feet in the feed. 

I haven't tried topspec condition flakes yet, and she will grudgingly eat Saracen Releve. I have never had good results with Allan and Page feeds so they are off the list. I haven't tried oil yet. 

My current plan of action is to try her on Releve on the basis other people on the yard feed it and I can flog it to them if she goes off it - so far I have spent upwards of £100 on feed she'll eat grudgingly for a week or so then rejects. I will also try oil since it is cheap and I can use it at home if she won't eat it! Topspec are last on my list because I don't know anyone who feeds it so it is potentially very expensive!

I don't mind buying expensive things if she eats them, but there is no way I am shelling out for something like equitop myoplast. 

Anything else I should have thought of?
		
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She sounds like one seriously unhappy girl. 

What has your vet suggested?


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## Roasted Chestnuts (7 April 2013)

SpottedCat said:



			Aside from the fact that she eats fibre beet, and yes, she has ad lib forage as I've already stated, so this is entirely a moot point, I am entirely uncomfortable with not doing everything I can easily do to make sure she puts weight on - it's pretty ethically wrong IMO, sorry. I can't magic up grass, so I want to find something which will help her put on weight, and there was a chance someone on here had used something I hadn't come across which would help. As it turns out, my search has been pretty exhaustive, but what's the point in putting feed in front of her, and her then tipping it over and refusing to eat it? I might as well cut out the effort of filling the feed bowl!
		
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Well your last few statements have pretty much cancelled out what you said at the beginning of your post. If they dont want to eat the feed then why put it in front of them, If anyone had a magic wand for grass Id sell my soul for it for the TB and my oldie, so agree with you there.

Im not getting to you, Ive been there and done it, fretting, worrying and the worst part for me was my boy cant have cereals, hes intolerant and takes massive reactions, so it dropped my list even more as everything had to be less than 12% starch so think about how that narrowed my search range.

You arent starving her by not giving her a hard feed, shes choosing not to eat it there is a difference, that was my point, you can only lead a horse after all


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## whizzer (7 April 2013)

My super fussy, easily hotted up poor doer TB loves spillers conditioning fibre,he's also been on graze on all winter which goes down well. I've used the top spec cubes for years which he loves & recently have been using the flakes as well which he likes, I was concerned he would lose the plot on them as he's very sensitive but he's just right-perky but not crazy! If I really need to tempt him a bit of Allen & page herbal quiet mix works well- I do usually avoid mixes but it smells so nice that even a small handful on top of a feed gets him tucking in. I've also just started adding a small amount of micronised soya,a local feed place sells it cheap as chips & it's quite bland so he's not noticed me sneaking it in,he has gained weight since I started it but they've also gone onto a fresh field so not 100% sure if its that or the soya.


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## SpottedCat (8 April 2013)

Moomin - she's not in any way unhappy. Her coat is good, she's angelic to ride, she's just not putting weight on. 

Vet says it's almost certainly the shock of a change in lifestyle (she only started work last Nov) coupled with the lack of grass and the hard winter and advised we do nothing until the grass comes through then if that doesn't help we should investigate further. No idea why you would think she's unhappy or that I wouldn't have involved the vet.


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## SpottedCat (8 April 2013)

Black beastie my point is there is no sense giving her food she doesn't want to eat. She will eat fibre beet and balancer. I'm not about to give her what I think she should eat and watch her trample it into the floor, that's idiotic. 

The point of this thread was to see if there was some obscure feed company someone else had had success with. That's all.


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## Moomin1 (8 April 2013)

SpottedCat said:



			Moomin - she's not in any way unhappy. Her coat is good, she's angelic to ride, she's just not putting weight on. 

Vet says it's almost certainly the shock of a change in lifestyle (she only started work last Nov) coupled with the lack of grass and the hard winter and advised we do nothing until the grass comes through then if that doesn't help we should investigate further. No idea why you would think she's unhappy or that I wouldn't have involved the vet.
		
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I didn't imply that you hadn't involved the vet?  I asked you what the vet had suggested.

I think she sounds like an unhappy mare because of her weight issue and her reluctance to eat pretty much anything offered.  I don't think that is right and I would be very worried if that was my mare.

I did not, and do not, imply that you yourself are doing anything wrong.


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## windand rain (8 April 2013)

Have you tried barbary mash feeds. They may even send you a sample to try if you ask them. To be honest I would give her more of what she likes and maybe syringe in a suspension of brewers yeast or get the vet to give a vitamin b injection to improve her appetite


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## Befney3 (8 April 2013)

My TB has always been a pain to feed & really hard to keep weight on. He was changed onto Havens Slobbermash about 5months ago & loves it! He has Slobbermash & Balieys No4 & is looking better than he's looked in the 5years I've had him. Everyone who sees him comments on how well he's looking & my trainer couldn't believe the amount of weight he's got on him coming out of winter.


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## PapaFrita (8 April 2013)

Oats and alfalfa? I've never met a horse that won't eat those, even PF, although to be fair she's not keen on the pellets. Apparently they're made from the nasty bits of the alfalfa.


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## TPO (8 April 2013)

Copra- I've had lots of success with Coolstance but they also do Powerstance. It's the only healthy and safe saturated fat feed for horses. It was too high in protein for mine though. 

IIRC Speedibeet has higher calorie content than FB. I'd previously always thought that FB was the conditioning version.

Equine Answers 365 is supposed to help with conditioning too. I feed it as a GP supp/balancer.


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## wench (8 April 2013)

Have you thought about the shop own brand mix and nuts? 

How about trying protexin quick fix? I had a rabbit who point black refused to eat... I was at my wits end with it. Gave it the rabbit version and it started eating again. Few tubes shouldn't cost too much!


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## TwoStroke (8 April 2013)

I'd also go for oats. You could always buy a little bag of porridge oats from the supermarket to see if she'll eat them before shelling out on a big bag.

Can you leave a big tub trug full of unmolassed beet in her stable for her to pick at, or even out in the field? It's fibre, so you don't have to worry about meal size. I'd be tempted to tie the bucket to something so it couldn't be up-ended.

Failing that, apparently crushed up cheapo ginger biscuits are the ultimate appetiser!


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## SpottedCat (8 April 2013)

Let's be honest, no-one on here ever asks 'what does your vet think' meaning anything other than 'you really need to get a vet', do they?!  

She eats fibre beet and balancer perfectly happily, it's literally only the things she doesn't like which result in her tipping the feed up. 

Should have said - she had a month of protexin, and whilst she liked it, there was no discernible difference in her weight. 

Copra is basically the same as equijewel so I'm not convinced she'll go for that. 

She's been tried with the Rowan Barbary feeds - nothing doing! 

I wouldn't say there's any reason to give her an injection to stimulate her appetite - she eats perfectly well as long as its fibre beet and hay/haylage! But since those aren't doing the trick and we have no grass yet I was wondering if there was something out there I've missed. Obviously I am worried but I'm also prepared to take the view that this could all improve once the grass comes through, hence not rushing into a million an one tests beyond scoping her. The vet says she looks perfectly healthy aside from being underweight, and 3 different vets have seen her for various reasons (jabs, scoping, teeth etc)


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## TarrSteps (8 April 2013)

Just to the general point, Copra is similar to Equijewel as far as it's use, but it is coconut oil derived, whereas EJ is rice bran based. Via is also ideally fed soaked, I believe. 

I agree Copra is a good conditioning feed but it does have a distinctive smell and I've had quite a few horses refuse to eat it.


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## TarrSteps (8 April 2013)

Copra not via. Doh.


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## SpottedCat (8 April 2013)

I will try and get hold of some copra to try then - I had it in my head it was rice bran, probably because I've looked at so many feed websites recently! It was disappointing to discover triple top up doesn't exist any more as that was really good, but it seems all the useful things in the Badminton range have been discontinued now they've been taken over


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## Feisty Mare (8 April 2013)

My fussy boy Hoovers up releve, alfa a and omega rice - similar to equijewel so might not work for you (rice bran and linseed combined). Falcon feeds make it they are v helpful sure they'd send a sample


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## Ellibelli (8 April 2013)

Hi My old man who went through 2 lots of colic surgery and would literally go on hunger strike if he didn't like his feed and came through many winters looking like a hatrack has finally settled on pure feeds and copra. I started by adding copra in the tiniest amount possible and now he loves it so much I can pretty much add anything to his feed as the copra hides it so well and he now looks pretty good. Good luck x


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## vic07 (8 April 2013)

A couple of different feed companies- they might be worth a call as they have different options! 

http://www.reverdy.uk.com/
http://www.falconequinefeeds.co.uk/

Also we changed our Haylage supplier a couple of years ago. My new Haylage has a much reduced nutritional content- hence slimmer horses! Not a bad thing in my case! Just found it quite interesting.


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## Leg_end (8 April 2013)

Copra would be my suggestion but also brewers yeast..


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## JillA (8 April 2013)

Slightly off topic I know but I have two horses who came here for turn out because they got stressed and lost weight when they had to be stabled more than they were comfortable with. Stress can alter the appetite and metabolism - isn't there anywhere she can stay out with as much good quality forage as she can eat? Forage really is the basis if you need to get more than 2.5% dry matter of her bodyweight into her, which is what you need for weight gain, everything else is tinkering around the edges IMO. The fibre beet is good but is probably at least half water, (I feed it to my veteran who has total hay replacer diet) so will fill her up with minimal dry matter.


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## Archiepoo (8 April 2013)

hi my horse isnt very keen on his bucket or his haylage  so i feed 2 dry stubbs scoops soaked in a large tubtrug everynight ,
he does very well on that and then he has a net to pick at and in his bucket he just has a scoop of mix by its self to pick through.
 he hates chaff and isnt keen on beet by itself . this works very well for me hes put loads of weight on and isnt fizzy to ride


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## Jesstickle (8 April 2013)

If she'll eat it and you think she needs grass I would just feed huge amounts of readigrass/graze on.

I'm struggling to keep weight on this year too (vet has also checked mine and said the same as yours) and when it was really cold and horrible I was feeding two trugs a day to mine. I've never known anything that won't eat readigrass and although I've never looked into actual energy values (not very scientific for a scientist am I? ) it's worked for me.


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## SpottedCat (8 April 2013)

JillA - no, not without moving yards. Whilst I know the ideal solution is turnout with lots of grass, it's not a practical option. I'm already at the only yard in the area which kept turnout going over the winter through the wet. Ideally yes she'd have forage in the field, but we aren't allowed to put hay/haylage out, hence she is coming in to eat. She's not in the least bit stressy, and in fact she's on a decent amount of land, it's just been wet then freezing so there is no grass. The yard makes its own hay/haylage which is included in the price. The only way I could have her in the ideal setup is to send her somewhere too far away to ride, which defeats the object of having a horse somewhat, and doesn't solve the issue for when she comes back. As it stands she's been getting between 2.6 and 3% of her body weight in hay in a 24hr period, so it's clearly not doing the trick. It's nice hay too. 

I will check out the reverdy website, thankyou, not one I'd heard of which is exactly what I was hoping this thread would throw up!


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## SpottedCat (8 April 2013)

The trouble with things like readigrass/graze on is that the protein is much higher but the DE is about the same as fibre beet, so I don't really see how it will help with weight gain? In the most basic sense doesn't the principle that calories in need to increase in order to put on weight, so what will I gain by feeding it which I can't get by upping the amount of fibre beet? I know the fibre beet is fed wet, but I do weigh it dry, and she is getting 1kg a day of it.


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## whizzer (8 April 2013)

Has triple top up been recently discontinued? I bought some beginning of this winter. Mine did eat it but the 1 place I could get it from kept telling me it would be in soon & then took weeks to get it so I gave up on it! Have you tried adding stuff a really,really,really tiny amount at a time? Mine will point blank refuse to eat new stuff  sometimes & I add it in teeny amounts. Can sometimes take weeks to get something to a reasonable amount!


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## SpottedCat (8 April 2013)

Sadly it has whizzer - Baileys took over Badminton and discontinued it. I've tried the adding a tiny bit at a time with the linseed, not a chance. I could perhaps retrain her as a drug/bomb detection horse??!


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## LCH611 (8 April 2013)

Haven't had a chance to read all the replies, but what about Thunderbrook feeds - think they will do a small taster bag of their balancer and hopefully she would eat sprouted oats??


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## Jesstickle (8 April 2013)

SpottedCat said:



			The trouble with things like readigrass/graze on is that the protein is much higher but the DE is about the same as fibre beet, so I don't really see how it will help with weight gain? In the most basic sense doesn't the principle that calories in need to increase in order to put on weight, so what will I gain by feeding it which I can't get by upping the amount of fibre beet? I know the fibre beet is fed wet, but I do weigh it dry, and she is getting 1kg a day of it.
		
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I don't know (told you I wasn't scientific about feeding ) Grass makes horses fat when other things don't. I have no idea what is special about grass that makes it do that but I know, sure as sure, that once the grass starts to come in my horse will pick up. Even though the feed I am feeding her in a bucket is technically more dense in calories and even though I feed ad lib hay. 

I wouldn't suggest swapping FB for graze on. More using the grass as a partial (higher calorie) replacement for hay. That's how I feed it. Bucket feed, trug of grass, pile of hay.

You must be pulling you hair out. At least mine will eat pretty much anything. Apart from MagOx annoyingly!


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## SpottedCat (8 April 2013)

Thunderbrook is a new one on me - will also look them up, thanks!

I have no objection to trying readigrass etc, but I think the reason that proper grass puts weight on them is because when it is growing it is v high in sugars, especially the ex-dairy stuff we tend to keep horses on here. The sugars are water-soluble ones for the main part, found in the leaf not the stalk, so drying the grass and using stalk rather than mainly leaf = dried grass being less good than fresh in terms of weight gain. When the grass is growing they're eating mainly leaf.


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## criso (8 April 2013)

Three things to try are.

Oats
Copra
Soya bean meal

They are all high in calories (DE 15 - 18) and the latter two are high oil so slow release.

Mine love Copra but then they love Linseed too so I would get hold of a sample first to try as it isn't cheap and it is distinctive.  Not tried Soya bean meal myself but know people who have had good results.
Oats cheapest (£5 a bag for the own brand and my local supplier) and most horses seem to like them,

Just to add, my tb is looking a bit ribby at the moment where usually he's tends to be overweight.  It's  been a tough winter.


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## Firewell (8 April 2013)

I feel your pain as my TB looks the worst he ever has coming through this winter. He's on a similar management routine to yours in regards to turnout and I know for a fact it's the lack of grass and that I can't feed in the field that is the culprit. He simply can't eat enough haylage over night to keep his weight and he's basically licking bare soil in his paddock .
I pray for grass! He's not fussy like yours though which helps but he's on full ration of comp feed and looks slightly better but still rubbish imo.
For your girl I wouldn't normally suggest this but at Hero's where we got my mums TB they fed D&H stud mix. The horses got 3/4 small feeds of it a day, 3-4 scoops. They also mixed some other stuff in it Carron oil and a bit of chaff and oats I think.. All their fussy TB's ate it and they maintained none of the horses got worked up on it.
Sounds like rocket fuel to me but tbf our hero's horse was very well and calm on it. Needs must and all that,  you could always try her on something like that untill she puts weight on ?! Then can leave her a trug of FB over night with her as well?!


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## KatB (8 April 2013)

Would also say use grass nuts in additon to the fibre beet. You can add them to the fibre beet to just give her more fibre volume, but grass nuts are more conditioning than alfalfa, even if the theory says otherwise  madam will also refuse to eat anythig with added mint in, but she gobbles up speedibeet and alfalfa nuts v(she ddoesn't need more weight!) but I would swap this for Speedi beet and grass nuts if required for weight. Alternatively, I would have thought the releve and fibre beet together should provide enough if you can get enough down her to increase her weight. It may be worth tryog linseed lozenges instead of micronised linseed?


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## SpottedCat (8 April 2013)

Linseed lozenges - had not thought of that, good one! Will try and get hold of some as I think the linseed did help a bit when she was eating it. It certainly made her really glossy!! I don't think I'd twigged linseed came in another form other than micronised. Of course if it is the taste it won't work...

I think it'll have to be releve to start with and then see how we go. It's forecast to rain this week, so if we get that and a bit of sun the grass should start growing I hope.


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## Ellibelli (8 April 2013)

Just a thought but have you tried different varients of pure feeds? Mine wasn't keen on pure condition but will wolf down pure easy - not great for an underweight horse I know - hence the copra, but I did manage to sneak in half a scoop of pure condition cubes.


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## criso (8 April 2013)

SpottedCat said:



			Linseed lozenges - had not thought of that, good one!
		
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If you are trying to avoid sugar which I think you said you were I would avoid these.

Lozenges are what's left after the oil has been removed bound with molasses.


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## Lolo (8 April 2013)

Have you tried Omega Rice? I know she's rejected EquiJewel, but despite their virtually identical ingredients they are massively different for Reg...


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## SpottedCat (8 April 2013)

Yes, done all the variants of pure feeds including the conditioning pellets.  Hmm, did not know that re the linseed lozenges. 

Not tried omega rice because it is virtually identical to equijewel and it's the taste with equijewel. She likes the idea of it, but takes a mouthful then very carefully spits every last pellet out!


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## Lolo (8 April 2013)

SpottedCat said:



			Yes, done all the variants of pure feeds including the conditioning pellets.  Hmm, did not know that re the linseed lozenges. 

Not tried omega rice because it is virtually identical to equijewel and it's the taste with equijewel. She likes the idea of it, but takes a mouthful then very carefully spits every last pellet out!
		
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Also, have you tried soaking stuff in apple juice/ apple squash? With Lily, mum started liberally dosing stuff with apple squash which helped...


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## JillA (8 April 2013)

If she is eating 3% of her body weight in dry matter per day but not gaining weight then maybe metabolic issues are something to consider - does she have salt for example (caveat - mine took a while to get used to the taste so start small ), not a salt lick but actual salt added to her food? Or could there be a mineral imbalance - perhaps it would be worth asking Sarah at Forageplus for suggestions. www.forageplus.com/
Is she on a decent balancer, I have heard good reports of 365 complete?


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## monkeybum13 (8 April 2013)

If you wanted to try barley rings I've got a sack at home that I was going to throw away (bought too many bags) you could have, then if she doesn't like you've not wasted any money.

Didn't hot up my mare at all through the winter, just added condition nicely


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## SpottedCat (8 April 2013)

Apple juice doesn't help - was one of the first things I tried! 

She's on a balancer, yes, and I'm feeding it at the rate for the weight she should be rather than the weight she is. 

If she doesn't pick up when the grass grows then yes, I will start looking at metabolic issues/getting blood tests etc. But she has had a massive life change - she went from living in a field to coming into work, being in 24/7 because the fields were flooded, moving yards, wolf tooth out, working consistently etc. She hasn't lost weight since I got her, if anything she's put a bit on, but nothing like enough.


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## wench (8 April 2013)

What about this:

http://www.gwfnutrition.com/prod_equine_fibregest/index.htm


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## SpottedCat (8 April 2013)

wench said:



			What about this:

http://www.gwfnutrition.com/prod_equine_fibregest/index.htm

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Ok, that is something different! I will get a sample of that, thanks


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## wench (8 April 2013)

What sort of balancer is she on? Is it worth trying a more "comprehensive" one instead of a "leisure" one for example?


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## Oscar (8 April 2013)

I've got my skinny minny on this http://www.gravenhorse.co.uk/FFsoya.htm

He isn't fussy though, and wolfs his feeds down.  I bulk him up with Ultra Grass (smells like chocolate!!), grass nuts linseed.  He is slowly starting to get a nice covering, but I agree its Dr Grass they all desperately need.


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## SpottedCat (8 April 2013)

wench said:



			What sort of balancer is she on? Is it worth trying a more "comprehensive" one instead of a "leisure" one for example?
		
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She's on one which is almost identical to topspec comprehensive - I don't think the balancer is the issue. I've only just found one she'll eat, so that stays!


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## SpottedCat (8 April 2013)

Oscar said:



			I've got my skinny minny on this http://www.gravenhorse.co.uk/FFsoya.htm

He isn't fussy though, and wolfs his feeds down.  I bulk him up with Ultra Grass (smells like chocolate!!), grass nuts linseed.  He is slowly starting to get a nice covering, but I agree its Dr Grass they all desperately need.
		
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Useful, thanks, have ordered a sample!


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## ajf (8 April 2013)

Ok I will firstly admit I only read to page 6 so if someone has since written this I'm sorry!

I have fed boiled barley with success.  Didn't think he'd touched it but he did!

Also (this is a bit hard to explain!) find out who her bestest bud(ies) are.  If they will allow (and her) let them share feeds to see if you can intice (sorry if spelt wrong I have dyslexa) her to try their's, especially if they munch theirs down quickly.  So if her bud is eating some cubes/mix will she try and steal some from their bowl.  Try and do this as soon as she comes in from the field before tucking into her FB/hay/hayledge.  All ours try and steal/share each others, you know the grass is always greener!

Also agree that as a 5 yo she may be growing/changing which you won't see (ours did this alot) but just seems to require energy!!!

My super fussy ponio won't touch alot of supplements but quite likes Feedmark ones, which could be worth a try (he can smell 1/4 of a scoop (25mL) of a general multivit from other companies and will immediatley turn his bowl upsidedown in disgust!!!

I also agree that good grass and sunshine will do her the world of good but like everyone else we are still waiting for this!!!  Though if she will eat it feed her 3 big carrots per feed (will help IMO).

Good luck


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## kit279 (8 April 2013)

Spotted Cat, I should also say that Fibrebeet wasn't very successful with mine and they did lose weight on it - mainly because the energy content is relatively low, no matter how much they ate.  I swapped them onto Speedibeet at the time and that worked well.  Would she eat Speedibeet instead?  An equivalent volume would be higher in calories.


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## Pidgeon (8 April 2013)

I used Topspec super conditioning flakes with great success when I first got Pidge as he was very underweight. 3 feeds a day to start with and then dropped off the flakes after 9 months. I still feed these over the winter as he can run a little light, if you want some to try let me know and I'll send you some over?


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## Puppy (8 April 2013)

Contact John at Gravenhorse feeds http://www.gravenhorse.co.uk/Products.html and ask him for some free samples of their full fat soya flakes, acceler>8, bodybuilda & Lingold to see if she'll eat any of those. Or he may have some other suggestions, he's very helpful. You can tell him I sent you  

I feed C the full fat soya flakes and he's not a big eater but will eat a few cups of those a day and they don't heat him up.


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## TPO (8 April 2013)

Sorry in advance as probably repeating something that's already been covered but I've just skim read.

Copra isn't like Equijewel/Omega rice; it's a coconut derivative. It's 15 Mj/KG and iirc around 10% oil. It can be fed dry, damp or as a mash. I know of one person who's TBs didn't like it but I've honestly never met anything that didn't love it. I'd get mugged if I had any still on my hands after making feeds. It smells lush to me and like I said it's always been wolfed down. In Oz it was fed to the working horses with plain Lucerne, they had red dust and sticks for grazing but were doing over 50kms a day working. They held condition easily and had plenty of (controllable) "oomph" for working.

Their other option is the Powerstance which is a fine white powder; more like a supplement than a feed in it's appearance and volume fed. I think the Mj/Kg was something like 27; although it's low in starch it was very high in protein and my boy came out in a rash. He'd been scoped and as he already had a "barefoot" high fibre diet the vet said that we should be feeding horses fats but that volume of oil required would be unpalatable. This coconut fat is the only saturated fat that's not animal based as far as I'm aware. 

http://www.stanceequine.co.uk/horsefeedproducts.php?PowerStance-3#nutrient

Have you tried a digestive supplement like Yea-Sacc and/or Brewers Yeast?

Will she eat Speedibeet? It's slightly higher in calories than FB; I found that surprising as I always thought FB was the conditioning version until I looked into it properly when my boy dropped condition when I swapped him to it in an attempt to add condition. Lesson learnt to read labels and not assume!

One of my friends (Scarlett on here) has started feeding KeyFlow feeds. Although they appear higher in starch the cereals are processed differently making it easier for the horse to break down in the guts. Scarlett's horses are all barefoot TBs so their diets are carefully managed too. She has a fussy horse and he likes it although he did eat linseed/OR/releve/winergy iirc. Might be worth getting samples? http://keyflow.co/key-products/mark-todd-range/

Can you get hay analysed and/or buy hay with a higher calorie content? 

Roll on spring...


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## whizzer (8 April 2013)

I've spoken to both thunderbrook & gfw feeds who's products sound good for fussy poor doers & are coming to the top of my list to try. I'm reluctant to change my feed at the mo as mines eating & putting weight on but then we're lucky enough to have a decent amount of grass which I find is really the only way mine will maintain weight & even then he still needs some feed which he is then reluctant to eat as hes full of grass! I had a graven soya sample which went down ok, I managed to source soya at feed place up the road from me which I didn't even know was there & it's only £13 for 25kg! I did buy some BOSS last summer which he wolfed down but I decided would work out too expensive to carry on with. I want to buy another horse soon-ish & anything that is fussy & ridiculous with food will be rejected! After 15 years of this one I've had enough of faffing around!


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## whizzer (8 April 2013)

And I've got one that hated copra, when I finally persuaded him into having some it blew his mind!


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## Northern Hare (8 April 2013)

If your horse will accept a powdered supplement, try Equine Answers 365 Complete supplement - fed at double-dose (2 x small plastic supplement scoops).  I used to have my horse on a well-known balancer but then he started turning his nose up at it, so switched him onto 365 Complete (after hearing good reviews about it on this Forum) and he's doing so well on it and looks in great condition.  I feed it alongside the feed merchant's own label 16-plus mix and chaff.  Also, I found 365 Complete is much better value than the balancer I was buying.  Equine Answers have a website and I'm sure if you contact them, they'll send you out a sample.


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## HBII (8 April 2013)

Complicated! I have had a quick read so apologies if this has already been mentioned. How about SS just grass [Dried Spring grass]? Or like others have mentioned grass nuts? Would she not tolerate something like lucie-nuts soaked as FB is speedi beet & alfalfa? The only other thing that I have seen which intruiged me was on this post ...

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=602397

The AllTech LifeForce [not something I have used]


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## Jesstickle (8 April 2013)

I'm currently trialling LifeForce but as I'm only on day five I can't say whether it is working or not yet. 

Will happily update everyone in a month's time if they want me to though. I've heard good things so I'm cautiously optimistic


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## Saratoga (8 April 2013)

I'd try the red bag grass pellets from Simple Systems over any of the standard grass pellets you can get in feed shops.


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## Roasted Chestnuts (8 April 2013)

SpottedCat said:



			Black beastie my point is there is no sense giving her food she doesn't want to eat. She will eat fibre beet and balancer. I'm not about to give her what I think she should eat and watch her trample it into the floor, that's idiotic. 

The point of this thread was to see if there was some obscure feed company someone else had had success with. That's all.
		
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I think you have misunderstood me, I was suggesting if she's not eating it just give her hay and leave the feed or leave it till she eats it, if she doesn't eat it then don't give it.


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## Crazy Friesian (9 April 2013)

Hi SC. Have you seen a supplement by Alltech called LifeForce? I have had hell with one of my ponies - a native at that! 
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=11655219

I am not one for supplements generally but I had nothing left to lose with this. It seems to have done the trick with him.


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## chestnut cob (9 April 2013)

It's a bit inconvenient but would she eat her feed if you chopped up fresh mint and stirred it through (sorry if that's been mentioned)?  When I had my old horse on SS feeds (which he hated), I could only get him to even consider eating it when I'd put fresh mint in.  You might need quite a bit but it might tempt her...?


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## mstep (14 April 2013)

Hi,

A bit of an "out there" alternative to try rather than feed is zoopharmacognosy... essentially self selection of herbs/oils. My lad was diagnosed with ulcers last year after scoping, they cleared up in 4 weeks after a course of GG, and now I'm tweaking a maintenence diet for him - currently Hifi unmolassed, speedibeet, micronised linseed, protexin gut balancer & Rite Trak or ProSoothe. I prefer the idea of natural ingredients so looked into zoopharmacognosy after a recommendation.

I've used Lindsay 3 times now and can highly recommend her. I've had various blood tests / vet treatments following each session, and so far his selections have always predicted the "scientific" diagnosis/treatments. I find it fascinating and my chap loves the experience.

Not sure of distance but her website is http://www.lindsaydaep-zoopharmacognosy.co.uk/#/zoopharmacognosy/4550181624

Em


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## seabsicuit2 (14 April 2013)

Firstly I'd talk to Roger Hatch at Trinity consultants and Johnny at Silver lining herbs- this sort of thing is their speciality.

Secondly, if there is no grass and if they are not eating the hay or don't like the hay, they ( thoroughbreds especially) will turn their nose up at hard feeds. Their whole digestion just dries up and their gastric juices just don't flow, hence no appetite. My two horses looked shocking this winter when they moved to their new yard, because although the hay looked good, they just picked at their hay and were eating about 1/4 the amount of hay they normally eat in winter. They were picky about feeds and I spent a FORTUNE on the best most conditioning feeds.
I've had both those horses for 3 years now and both have always, usually been total fatties on just hay alone and very little hard feed, it was a shock for me this winter how quickly they got so poor!! 

So I would try buying in your own haylage- the horsehage that you buy in little sacks, altho rather expensive, is just fabulous for conditioning and the horses *usually* just adore it. I've seen a whole yard of HOYS show ponies fed only that horsehage, ad lib, and virtually nothing else, and they were all in amazing show condition, got so fat that they all had to be restricted in the end 

Try


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## seabsicuit2 (14 April 2013)

Ets- that was show horses and ROR thoroughbreds as well, not just ponies!


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## SpottedCat (15 April 2013)

She is eating hay/haylage absolutely fine - that's certainly not the issue, and she's eating fibre beet just fine too - it's definitely a fussiness issue not anything more complex. 

I tried the soya flakes - took a mouthful and carefully spat every last one onto the floor, but having been a bit suspicious of ReLeve she's now decided it's actually quite nice, so I've got her up to eating:

1kg fibre beet (dry weight)
1.5kg ReLeve
400g Balancer 

Obviously split across two feeds. Plus ad lib haylage. 

Now if that doesn't put weight on her I will clearly be getting the vet to investigate further, but it's certainly increased her stamina, so I am hopeful it will do the trick! 

I've also spent the weekend taking down the closed board between her stable and the horse next door and fixing up trellis so she can see down the row of stables internally, as I don't think she was particularly happy not being able to see other horses except over the door. I wonder if that will help too, as for all that she was totally chilled and laid back, I just had a suspicion she was worrying about that.


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## Firewell (15 April 2013)

Something you might find interesting.. A vet that came to our yard was saying that as well as a long winter and no grass last years hay is very low in nutrients because of the wet summer. People have been feeding lots of hay and wondering why horses still dropping off but it's because there is hardly any goodness in the hay/haylage. Thats what he said anyway .


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## criso (15 April 2013)

I can just imagine her spitting out the flakes, they're ungrateful little **** sometimes aren't they.

Echo what firewall said about this winter. It's been a tough one with no grass and a poor hay harvest. Mine is lighter that he's been before, but confident he will pick very quickly now grass is coming through.


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## TarrSteps (15 April 2013)

She is a weird one - the Releve has soya flakes in it!

I'm losing track. . . .did you try Omega Rice? As I keep banging on, I find that and the Releve increasingly my "go to" combo. I also use a vit supplement rather than a balancer to keep the amount of feed down but that is personal preference.


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## WellyBaggins (15 April 2013)

SpottedCat said:



			She is eating hay/haylage absolutely fine - that's certainly not the issue, and she's eating fibre beet just fine too - it's definitely a fussiness issue not anything more complex. 

I tried the soya flakes - took a mouthful and carefully spat every last one onto the floor, but having been a bit suspicious of ReLeve she's now decided it's actually quite nice, so I've got her up to eating:

1kg fibre beet (dry weight)
1.5kg ReLeve
400g Balancer 

Obviously split across two feeds. Plus ad lib haylage. 

Now if that doesn't put weight on her I will clearly be getting the vet to investigate further, but it's certainly increased her stamina, so I am hopeful it will do the trick! 

I've also spent the weekend taking down the closed board between her stable and the horse next door and fixing up trellis so she can see down the row of stables internally, as I don't think she was particularly happy not being able to see other horses except over the door. I wonder if that will help too, as for all that she was totally chilled and laid back, I just had a suspicion she was worrying about that.
		
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Just skim read so sorry if this has been tried/suggested, could you give her another one or two feeds of what she will eat, maybe a lunch and late night feed?  May not be possible I appreciate


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## TheMule (15 April 2013)

Great news about the releve!
Te other. Thought I had was Baileys cooked cereal meal- very bland, Moon used to eat it


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## SpottedCat (15 April 2013)

TarrSteps said:



			She is a weird one - the Releve has soya flakes in it!

I'm losing track. . . .did you try Omega Rice? As I keep banging on, I find that and the Releve increasingly my "go to" combo. I also use a vit supplement rather than a balancer to keep the amount of feed down but that is personal preference.
		
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I know - which is why I was hopeful she'd like it! I haven't tried Omega Rice yet because she hated the EquiJewel so much, but I have requested a sample. I'm using balancer rather than vit supplement because when I go away it is easier to have feed in bins for people to dole out I think - personal preference as you say! The balancer is less than half a mug so not huge quantities.



criso said:



			I can just imagine her spitting out the flakes, they're ungrateful little **** sometimes aren't they.

Echo what firewall said about this winter. It's been a tough one with no grass and a poor hay harvest. Mine is lighter that he's been before, but confident he will pick very quickly now grass is coming through.
		
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She has clear ideas on what is, and is not, acceptable to her! I agree re the grass etc - but until we get some growth in the fields I have to try with feeds!



WellyBaggins said:



			Just skim read so sorry if this has been tried/suggested, could you give her another one or two feeds of what she will eat, maybe a lunch and late night feed?  May not be possible I appreciate 

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Not possible. Two feeds a day is all we can do, for various logistical reasons. The obvious answer is a big field full of grass and/or several feeds a day, but neither of those are available to me.



TheMule said:



			Great news about the releve!
Te other. Thought I had was Baileys cooked cereal meal- very bland, Moon used to eat it
		
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I will add that to the list if she doesn't pick up on this!


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## seabsicuit2 (15 April 2013)

If she's eating up her haylage well then it's definitely worth trying the marksway horsehage that they sell in little sacks at scats. That's amazing for weight gain.

Def think johnny and roger would be worth a call - such a poor appetite is not normal and usually a sign of toxic digestion or liver or kidneys - that's nothing that vets know about or would be able to diagnose- but it's something that johnny/ roger are brilliant with & just needs a course of herbs or special supplement to sort out ( tho you'd have to get them to tell you how to get it into her!)


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## SpottedCat (15 April 2013)

seabsicuit2 said:



			If she's eating up her haylage well then it's definitely worth trying the marksway horsehage that they sell in little sacks at scats. That's amazing for weight gain.

Def think johnny and roger would be worth a call - such a poor appetite is not normal and usually a sign of toxic digestion or liver or kidneys - that's nothing that vets know about or would be able to diagnose- but it's something that johnny/ roger are brilliant with & just needs a course of herbs or special supplement to sort out ( tho you'd have to get them to tell you how to get it into her!)
		
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It's not really poor appetite is it? Just very specific views on what she will and won't eat! She'll eat as much fibre beet, balancer and now releve as I put in front of her. She'll also eat anything mollassed, but I'd prefer to avoid heavily mollassed feeds. She's also eating 10-14kg of hay/haylage a night.

Don't get me wrong, I think Jonny is brilliant, I used him for B after the ulcers when they vets couldn't fix the diarrhea, but I'm not certain this is anything specifically wrong, she's just a bit fussy! 

I could get different haylage - but it all starts getting very expensive then because forage is included in my livery.


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## criso (15 April 2013)

SpottedCat said:



			She has clear ideas on what is, and is not, acceptable to her! I agree re the grass etc - but until we get some growth in the fields I have to try with feed!
		
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Mine isn't very fussy but if he takes against a feed it is absolutely non negotiable. I could just visualise it. He likes Rosehips as a hand fed treat but will eat around them if they are added to feed and leave then in the bowl.

 And tbs seem to drop so quickly. I've got mine on far more Copra and Linseed than I would be expecting to feed a field ornament in April.


With the grass and hay I just meant that I wouldn't be panicking about sinister underlying causes when there are lots of environmental factors this year that mean alot of horses are doing so well.


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## SpottedCat (15 April 2013)

criso said:



			With the grass and hay I just meant that I wouldn't be panicking about sinister underlying causes when there are lots of environmental factors this year that mean alot of horses are doing so well.
		
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Yep, that's the exact conversation I had with the vets - there's no point in panicking or doing loads of investigations until the weather improves and the grass is through because it's probably just a combination of lifestyle shock and the horrible weather/grass etc situation.


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## samlf (15 April 2013)

I'd try the red bag grass pellets (from spring grass, so should be higher in DE).
Can you try getting her to eat yea sacc/brewers yeast? That should mean she gets more from her food.
Also as she likes her hay, you can get unmolassed timothy hay chop too, but obviously that wont do anything much for her condition.

We have just gone through this with my friends horse, he was never really interested in hard feed at his previous home either, but we feed a low sugar/starch diet too which obviously isnt as tasty! He is just so suspicious and would rather go hungry than eat something that smelled funny (was all about smell for him - wouldnt even try other stuff after a sniff!). 
He is now eating relatively well, on speedibeet mixed with grass nuts (soaked), but he only needs a small amount for supplements as is a very good doer.

Anyway, my point is that he would also not eat if you paid attention to the fact he wasnt eating (IYSWIM!), so feeding and walking away was what works with him, just give it to him and if he didnt eat it wasnt a big deal. Also leaving it with him all day/night he eventually would eat it up, once bored of his hay. 

I hope that doesnt sound patronising, its just something that jumps out at me, when they know its driving you crazy they do it more!

EDIT - forgot the other thing about friends horse, we very much suspected ulcers but didnt see the point of going through scoping as obviously doesnt rule out hindgut etc (Im aware thats a bit controversial). He was put on egusin which has improved his symptoms to an extent, and he is slightly better at eating after the course. We have changed to ulcerex for maintenance now (syringed into him) as it was just not possible to get enough of the maintenance egusin into him, might be worth trying something like that if she has other ulcer symptoms?

Teeth, may cause it to be uncomfortable to eat anything otehr than the fibrebeet texture?


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## Fiona (15 April 2013)

Firewell said:



			Something you might find interesting.. A vet that came to our yard was saying that as well as a long winter and no grass last years hay is very low in nutrients because of the wet summer. People have been feeding lots of hay and wondering why horses still dropping off but it's because there is hardly any goodness in the hay/haylage. Thats what he said anyway .
		
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Thats interesting firewall....

We fed big bale haylage this year (as small bale hay impossible to find after last years bad summer), and I thought the mares would do better on it....  The fact that they both look lighter than previous years was totally confusing me 

Fiona


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## sonjafoers (15 April 2013)

I feel your pain! I have a 7/8ths TB who sounds exactly the same - the amount of feed I have thrown/given away over the years is unbelievable because even if we start eating one it might only last a week or two before it gets thrown all around the stable. She won't touch alfa, chaff, grass nuts etc etc and I've been thorough just about every feed on the market.

Mine however will eat Winergy Condition ( despite not eating alfa in any other form! ) so I have to stick with this but she will only eat half a scoop at one sitting so less than half a kilo each time which isn't very helpful. I add Baileys Outshine which she will eat when mixed with the Winergy and I really rate it. I've tried all the rice brans, copra etc to no avail but this gets eaten & does make a difference.

I know you're getting the ReLeve in now but if you decide you need something else PM me and I'll send you some Outshine to try - it's been a godsend to me.


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## stroppymare153 (15 April 2013)

another vote for Havens Slobbermash - ours favouritest feed ever  

However....  it does have a bit of a rocket fuel effect, at least for Barry :-(  Also not the easiest to find though they may well send you a sample.

good luck finding something tasty for her!


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## Bestdogdash (15 April 2013)

Havent read all the replies (so sorry if repeating) but - go old fashioned. Get dome good quality barley, boil it ( I do mine in the aga over night) and add to feed. Never found a horse who can resist it and it produces fantastic results.


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## daisycrazy (15 April 2013)

I would try Allen & Page anyway - I've always had mine on them, with Equilibra 500, with excellent results. Their herbal quiet mix is palatable. Your mare might have a different opinion of A&P feeds from your previous horses! If you're stuck then I would be inclined to try them anyway. If she will eat it then it's better than nothing.


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