# dog breed ID please



## spacefaer (17 August 2017)

I was hoping someone could identify a dog for me.  

Saw it today when I was hacking past - it's new to the property and very aggressive. 

Large - think GSD
Grey - think wolf-like shading
Hairy - long,  soft coat
Ears - don't know as they were flat against its head
Face - shorter nose - more bear like.  

Any thoughts? ?


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## LittleBlackMule (17 August 2017)

Caucasian Shepherd?


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## CorvusCorax (17 August 2017)

Badly bred husky or malamute of either?
Or some sort of Wolfdog permutation...they come with a variety of names now.

Just a bog standard sable (grey) longcoat GSD?

Small Caucasian shepherd (ovcharka)?


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## Clodagh (17 August 2017)

You have to hack past again and get a pic.  Go on, you know you want to!


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## spacefaer (17 August 2017)

Clodagh said:



			You have to hack past again and get a pic.  Go on, you know you want to!
		
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I really don't! It is in a garden which is significantly higher than the road - when we first met it, hanging over the wall, it was level with my horse's head.  Then it ran along the lawn, to a section where the wall is level with the grass, but about 10' above the road (so the drop is the boundary iyswim)

It would have taken very little provocation for it to have jumped onto the road. 

They also had a mixed race Staffy cross - pale brindle, staffy head, long legs - which thankfully wasn't barking.

Very unpleasant experience - my horse is very level headed about dogs, but really wasn't happy about the head height aggression.


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## spacefaer (17 August 2017)

Looking at the pictures on google, it may well be a small ovcharka. 

Are there rules about keeping them??


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## SusieT (17 August 2017)

akita? if it's in its own garden leave it alone...


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## rara007 (17 August 2017)

Sounds like Akita to me?


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## CorvusCorax (17 August 2017)

The ovcharka is not a banned breed.

It is a livestock guardian breed so naturally a boundary protector. I'd give the property a miss if you can.


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## Moobli (18 August 2017)

Worryingly Caucasian Shepherds (Ovcharkas) are becoming increasingly popular in the UK and more often than not with the wrong kind of people in highly undesirable situations.  As CC says they are a Livestock Guardian breed - bred to protect flocks from large predators in Russia among other places.  They are naturally very aggressive towards strangers and anything they consider a threat and are extremely protective of their property and people. 

Personally I don't think there is a place for this breed and others like it in the UK.


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## spacefaer (18 August 2017)

Definitely not an akita - no white and a much flatter face 

(I know someone with an akita) 

I might have a word with the police as if it comes over the wall (which would be very easy for it to do),  it would be very messy

They need to fence it back from the wall.


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## CorvusCorax (18 August 2017)

Dog warden would probably be better as a first port of call, through the local council.

The problem is the size and power of such breeds means it would be very hard to stop if it was intent on something.


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## rara007 (18 August 2017)

spacefaer said:



			Definitely not an akita - no white and a much flatter face 

(I know someone with an akita) 

I might have a word with the police as if it comes over the wall (which would be very easy for it to do),  it would be very messy

They need to fence it back from the wall.
		
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Hmm, shorter face than an Akita... Shame we don't know the ears! Tibetan mastiffs etc are far bigger than even big GSDs. As are the Caucasians I've met. Not 'just' something like a long coated GSDx boxer?


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## spacefaer (18 August 2017)

rara007 said:



			Hmm, shorter face than an Akita... Shame we don't know the ears! Tibetan mastiffs etc are far bigger than even big GSDs. As are the Caucasians I've met. Not 'just' something like a long coated GSDx boxer?
		
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Ears were flat against its head but I got the impression that they weren't very big, and certainly not prick ears - definitely more floppy. If I had to guess, I would say it was the size of an old English sheepdog - not as big as a St Bernard, or Newfie. Hard to tell when your horse is trying to leg it and the dog is head height!!


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## spacefaer (18 August 2017)

It definitely seemed defensive aggressive 

I can see I am going to have to go back and take a photo..... not with a horse in tow though!!


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## Parly (18 August 2017)

CorvusCorax said:



			Dog warden would probably be better as a first port of call, through the local council.

The problem is the size and power of such breeds means it would be very hard to stop if it was intent on something.
		
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Agree dog warden is best bet.  We have land just the other side of a railway line and the last house before you get to the crossing has two dogs that spend most of their time shut outside in the garden and they snarl and jump and bounce off the garden fence and I _hate _having to pass.  They're horrendous if I have the dogs and I worry what they'll do if ever they get over that fence cos it's not much.  It's like running the gauntlet I'll be in too much of a rush to make it over the railway one of these days and get hit by a train.

One looks and sounds huge but not sure what it is and the other is the most nasty looking / sounding Springer Spaniel I've ever seen.  

Mentioned it to dog warden cos I wasn't sure if the property was known to them or if they had previous complaints and explained I'm not scared of dogs as a rule and understand some are all mouth and sound worse than they are but honestly worry what will happen if they get through.  

I could tell from the sigh she made when I told her the address it's been a long-standing battle.  He sounds a right pillock and has been deliberately awkward / refused to keep hold of the dogs or put them in to let people pass because "They're not gonna hurt you they're behind a fence"   Just a total arse really.

Next time I went that way no sign of the dogs but I'm sure they'll start to put in appearance again before long.  It's always worth flagging up concerns with the dog warden.  Even if there's nothing in it there's nothing lost but it helps them to build a case if they are having problems with someone.


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## ester (18 August 2017)

you have to as we are all wondering now, and I bet we have all imagined entirely differnet looking dogs!


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## {97702} (18 August 2017)

Sounds like a greyhound to me


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## spacefaer (19 August 2017)

Right folks - I have pics! How do I post them?


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## rara007 (19 August 2017)

Im no good at explaining (I think there are threads that do!) but await with baited breath.


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## Auslander (19 August 2017)

spacefaer said:



			Right folks - I have pics! How do I post them?
		
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Like this!


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## KittenInTheTree (19 August 2017)

What a gorgeous pair of dogs! Frankly, I reckon you're worrying over nothing - going by that photo if they had any inclination to eat you then they'd have done so already. But I'm sure that you'll soon whip up a mob of supporters regardless.

#outofpatiencewithhumansingeneral


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## Auslander (19 August 2017)

KittenInTheTree said:



			What a gorgeous pair of dogs! Frankly, I reckon you're worrying over nothing - going by that photo if they had any inclination to eat you then they'd have done so already. But I'm sure that you'll soon whip up a mob of supporters regardless.

#outofpatiencewithhumansingeneral
		
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Was there really any need for that?


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## CorvusCorax (19 August 2017)

That looks like a Caucasian alright.


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## Moobli (19 August 2017)

Yep definitely a Caucasian!  Beautiful dogs but definitely not a good situation for that dog - or any passerby!


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## Chinchilla (19 August 2017)

In fairness it could be a carpathian shepherd or yugoslavian herder....

(pictured it our carpathian shepherd dog). 






That being said all dog breeds from that sort of area have a very, very strong guarding instinct and will not tolerate strangers; enter their territory if you dare  
But once you know them they are amaaaazing! <3

(Obviously, there is not an ounce of owner bias present in that statement at all, lol)


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## SusieT (19 August 2017)

a 10ft drop is plenty to keep the dog in tbh. your horse will get used to them. I'd give the wall a wide berth ie ride on other side of the road, otherwise I'd crack on


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## Clodagh (19 August 2017)

Bloody hell, I would be bricking it! Hopefully if they were going to jump off and eat you they would have done. I would still worry one would fall off by mistake. 
I would say, if you ride past, don't look at them and trot on. Is there any way you could ask the owner if they are OK? Maybe not by walking up the garden path, mind.


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## rara007 (19 August 2017)

Not convinced a 10foot drop would keep my spaniel in! I expect its ears are cropped hence not showing!!


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## CorvusCorax (19 August 2017)

Lol. My dog would be over the hills and far away. No sense of self preservation  

I used to ride past a lot of very gobby dogs but if they came at me I used to just roar back. All the horses were used to it.


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## Tiddlypom (19 August 2017)

Blimey, usually on these threads the advice is to ignore the dog and to just crack on past with your perfectly trained horse. 

NOTHING would induce me to ride past that dog in that scenario, it looks ready to launch.


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## Alec Swan (19 August 2017)

Diva&Rosie'sMum said:



			.

(pictured it our carpathian shepherd dog). 






..
		
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How strange,  your pictured dog shows a striking resemblance to the long defunct Smithfield Collie.  They were mostly cattle dogs used during the 17th.  19th. century by the drovers who walked cattle from all over the UK and down to Smithfield market mostly,  hence the name.

From the illustrations available,  a _striking_ resemblance.

Alec.


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## Alec Swan (19 August 2017)

KittenInTheTree said:



			What a gorgeous pair of dogs! Frankly, I reckon you're worrying over nothing - going by that photo if they had any inclination to eat you then they'd have done so already. But I'm sure that you'll soon whip up a mob of supporters regardless.

#outofpatiencewithhumansingeneral
		
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Auslander said:



			Was there really any need for that?
		
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Was it needed?  I suspect that it was a voice of common sense.  Mostly those dogs and humans too who are going to attack,  rarely advise us of that.  They would appear to me to be relatively bark-and-no-bite.  The larger of the two is standing his ground and shouting the odds.

Alec.


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## spacefaer (19 August 2017)

To make myself clear (and thanks Auslander for putting the pic up!)
this pic was taken from inside my truck on the other side of the road - I have zoomed in for clarity.

When I was on the horse, there was a LOT more aggression (and I understand that it is defensive aggression, but it is still not great to ride past.) Think bared teeth, head lowered, ears flat back and a huge amount of noisy barking.

I was on the other side of the road with the horse as well - because of the height of the wall, the dog was initially at the horse's head height, and then at my eyeline as we carried on past it.

There is very little wall on the dog's side - just a fairly decent drop straight onto the road.  If I had come from the other direction, round the uphill, blind corner, the dog would have been about a foot away from my head.

I was okay, the horse was unimpressed, but ok. The local livery yard (about 1 mile away) has children and novice riders hacking out - they may well not have been ok.

All I would like is a decent fence, set back from the wall, so that we can pass safely and without the dog feeling sufficiently threatened to think it has to defend its patch.

I know it bites anyone who goes into the grounds - the owner has admitted this - it's obviously guarding its pack effectively! I'm not blaming the dog, just alarmed by the potential for disaster.


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## Auslander (19 August 2017)

Alec Swan said:



			Was it needed?  I suspect that it was a voice of common sense.  Mostly those dogs and humans too who are going to attack,  rarely advise us of that.  They would appear to me to be relatively bark-and-no-bite.  The larger of the two is standing his ground and shouting the odds.

Alec.
		
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My beef was with the second part of the post.


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## CorvusCorax (19 August 2017)

That's a silly thing for the owner to admit, particularly keeping it in the above scenario.

Beautiful it may be, IMO this is a breed which should be out on a plain in the middle of nowhere, hanging with some livestock, not stuck in a garden feeling so insecure and defensive that it feels the need to gob off at everything that walks past and bite 'anyone that goes into the grounds'. 
If it's a 'guard dog' then there are strict rules and regulations including fencing, signage and a stipulation that there is someone on the property at all times.

Barking dogs certainly do bite.
I'm out of patience with humans too, the ones who think 'I want THAT breed' without perhaps considering if it's fair on the dog or anyone else.

I do hope I am wrong.


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## Moobli (19 August 2017)

CorvusCorax said:



			That's a silly thing for the owner to admit, particularly keeping it in the above scenario.

Beautiful it may be, IMO this is a breed which should be out on a plain in the middle of nowhere, hanging with some livestock, not stuck in a garden feeling so insecure and defensive that it feels the need to gob off at everything that walks past and bite 'anyone that goes into the grounds'. 
If it's a 'guard dog' then there are strict rules and regulations including fencing, signage and a stipulation that there is someone on the property at all times.

Barking dogs certainly do bite.
I'm out of patience with humans too, the ones who think 'I want THAT breed' without perhaps considering if it's fair on the dog or anyone else.

I do hope I am wrong.
		
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Couldn't agree more.  Some dogs are all mouth and no trousers.  The Caucasian Ovcharka is not one of those dogs.  They have been selectively bred over many generations to ferociously defend their flocks and boundaries against wolves, bears and other large predators.  You do not mess around with a Caucasian Ovcharka!


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## CorvusCorax (19 August 2017)

To add now that I've had something to eat and am less hangry 

I'm not making any statement about this dog in particular although for me that is not a safe set up, nor am I casting aspersions on the breed...I am just frustrated that an industry exists where unsuitable breeds are sold to unsuitable homes and dogs and people are put in risky positions. Burp.


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## eatmyshorts (20 August 2017)

Not sure if it works the same way in England (i'm in Scotland), but you may want to get in touch with your local council. Ask to speak to the Antisocial Behaviour Team about the Control of Dogs Order. Tell them the behaviour of these dogs is making you feel threatened. Hopefully they may be able to get the owner to put up a fence.


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## Chinchilla (21 August 2017)

Alec Swan said:



			How strange,  your pictured dog shows a striking resemblance to the long defunct Smithfield Collie.  They were mostly cattle dogs used during the 17th.  19th. century by the drovers who walked cattle from all over the UK and down to Smithfield market mostly,  hence the name.

From the illustrations available,  a _striking_ resemblance.

Alec.
		
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She doesn't look that similar to me - and anyway she's from Romania!  Only came over to this country February of this year, though in fairness we'll never know for sure what she really is as she was saved from a horrible kill shelter, but whatever she is I highly doubt it's an English drover's dog.  
Google Romanian Shepherd dog and you'll see what I mean


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## Clodagh (21 August 2017)

Diva&Rosie'sMum said:



			She doesn't look that similar to me - and anyway she's from Romania!  Only came over to this country February of this year, though in fairness we'll never know for sure what she really is as she was saved from a horrible kill shelter, but whatever she is I highly doubt it's an English drover's dog.  
Google Romanian Shepherd dog and you'll see what I mean 

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I think what Alec meant was she is of the same type. Makers sense, probably created to do the same job at some point in the breeds development.


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## Chinchilla (21 August 2017)

Clodagh said:



			I think what Alec meant was she is of the same type. Makers sense, probably created to do the same job at some point in the breeds development.
		
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Oh yes it made sense - she's very similar to a border collie that lives near us, totally different animals obviously, but put them side by side and it's like having 2 siblings. They just 'get' each other - and Ellie (the carpathian) has massive issues with other dogs (usually) but not this collie, she actively seeks her out. 
Not sure if it's just two intelligent herder type dogs which happen to have clicked or what but it's cute to see considering Ellie goes into a mad panic walking past any other canine.


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## Equi (21 August 2017)

If you genuinely feel threatened by this dog you can report it to the police but consider the implications for the dog and owner..the dogs not actually done anything bare bark and by the looks of the staffyx it could be deemed pit type and destroyed for no other reason but that despite not having shown any aggression. Many dogs bark at people/horses passing by their land...would you be posting this if it was a labrador? 

For the sake of the dogs, which frankly look well looked after, id be having a quiet word with the owner saying that you feel your horses are in danger due to how easy it is for the dogs to get out. They may well be shocked and put up a fence, or they may tell you to eff off in which case you then take it further.

Just to add, i completely get where you are coming from, the neighbors police GSDs are all out barking will boing on you and kill you type dogs and his garden is higher than the path making the dogs be at your head. They are well penned in and there is no chance of them getting out and im so used to them i don't mind it, but i get how threatened you can feel. I only feel safe as there is the fence.


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## npage123 (21 August 2017)

WorkingGSD said:



			Couldn't agree more.  Some dogs are all mouth and no trousers.  The Caucasian Ovcharka is not one of those dogs.  They have been selectively bred over many generations to ferociously defend their flocks and boundaries against wolves, bears and other large predators.  You do not mess around with a Caucasian Ovcharka!
		
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Blimey, just googled some images of these Ovcharkas.  They are massive!  Not that the size alone of a dog breed makes it intimidating, but by your explanation of what they were bred for, I think they should all be wearing a fluorescent yellow and pink tabbard that says 'do not approach me'!  I wonder why the owners picked this breed.


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## Equi (21 August 2017)

npage123 said:



			Blimey, just googled some images of these Ovcharkas.  They are massive!  Not that the size alone of a dog breed makes it intimidating, but by your explanation of what they were bred for, I think they should all be wearing a fluorescent yellow and pink tabbard that says 'do not approach me'!  I wonder why the owners picked this breed.
		
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For precisely the reasons stated. They are fiercly loyal to owners, much like akitas and many guard dog and flock breeds which makes some of these people think they are the big banana.


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## Dano1223 (29 August 2017)

I personally feel that this particular breed has no good reason to be sold in the UK apart from making someone money obviously as i'm sure theyre priced exorbitantly. Any dog that barks will be enough to put off the average burglar but if someone wants to get into your property they will regardless of the dog patrolling.


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## Chinchilla (1 September 2017)

Dano1223 said:



			I personally feel that this particular breed has no good reason to be sold in the UK apart from making someone money obviously as i'm sure theyre priced exorbitantly. Any dog that barks will be enough to put off the average burglar but if someone wants to get into your property they will regardless of the dog patrolling.
		
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Agreed - ovcharkas, carpathians, anatolians etc. etc. were all dogs designed to protect livestock/their family. They are not suitable for your average suburban Briton wanting to look good down in the park :lol:


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## Goldenstar (1 September 2017)

All the Anatolians I knew when I lived in Turkey where gentle dogs with people I would notcall them a natural property guarding breed .
Seeing them out on the plateau amongst the goats is a fantastic sight .
Dogs bark horses spook whose natural behaviour trumps the other .
However if I where the dogs owner I would want a fence .


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## Apercrumbie (1 September 2017)

Auslander said:



			Like this!






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Sadly I can't see the photo but it does sound scary. Interesting that the owner has admitted that the dog bites intruders - unwise to do so.


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## spacefaer (1 September 2017)

equi said:



			If you genuinely feel threatened by this dog you can report it to the police but consider the implications for the dog and owner..the dogs not actually done anything bare bark and by the looks of the staffyx it could be deemed pit type and destroyed for no other reason but that despite not having shown any aggression. Many dogs bark at people/horses passing by their land...would you be posting this if it was a labrador? 

For the sake of the dogs, which frankly look well looked after, id be having a quiet word with the owner saying that you feel your horses are in danger due to how easy it is for the dogs to get out. They may well be shocked and put up a fence, or they may tell you to eff off
		
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I would not be posting asking for breed identification if it was a labrador no, but I would be disturbed by any large breed dog showing signs of aggression at my head height when on a horse, and potentially only 2-3 ft from my head!

The photo was taken from inside my truck on the opposite side of the road to the dog. Imagine how much fiercer it was when my horse was there instead!

Given that the owner has already admitted that this dog bites visitors, I have absolutely no plans to go anywhere near the property on foot (which is presumably the point of the dog!)


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## Chinchilla (2 September 2017)

Goldenstar said:



			All the Anatolians I knew when I lived in Turkey where gentle dogs with people I would notcall them a natural property guarding breed .
Seeing them out on the plateau amongst the goats is a fantastic sight .
Dogs bark horses spook whose natural behaviour trumps the other .
However if I where the dogs owner I would want a fence .
		
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Hmm I read that they can be guardy and are one person dogs.  Oops!


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