# Endurance GB Votes to Accept Funding form Sheik Mohammads Meyden



## skydy (20 January 2015)

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/endurance-gb-secures-controversial-funding-meydan-470945 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ol...inquiry-ends-with-no-disciplinary-action.html

Endurance GB, I'm surprised by this. I really am. After everything that has happened..How could you?


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## Exploding Chestnuts (21 January 2015)

It's pathetic, they get away with it every time.


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## Alec Swan (21 January 2015)

The lunacy of this whole debacle plumbs ever fresher depths!  It's laughable that those who accept the posts of authority,  within EGB and the FEI appear to be as complicit in the endemic corruption,  as are many of the ME competitors.  I suppose that the old adage which warns us that 'If you lie down with dogs,  then you catch fleas' is as apt now,  as it ever was.

Alec.


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## Flame_ (21 January 2015)

Many people won't even have understood the issues. The information that the board sent out was presented in very biased way. There were plenty of online discussions thrashing out the pros and cons but anyone who only had the voting information to go on were not presented with a balanced debate. 

Some people just want money, from wherever.


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## fatpiggy (21 January 2015)

Flame_ said:



			Many people won't even have understood the issues. The information that the board sent out was presented in very biased way. There were plenty of online discussions thrashing out the pros and cons but anyone who only had the voting information to go on were not presented with a balanced debate. 

Some people just want money, from wherever.
		
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Yes, money will always talk unfortunately.


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## case895 (21 January 2015)

What state are the finances in? It may be that this was the only option which kept staff in work. I would not like to tell someone they are fired when they did not have to be.


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## Alec Swan (21 January 2015)

case895,  you make a valid point,  but what price prostitution?

Alec.


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## case895 (21 January 2015)

Alec Swan said:



			case895,  you make a valid point,  but what price prostitution?

Alec.
		
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Fine principles do not pay bills. Ultimately we all work for "the man".


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## Flame_ (21 January 2015)

EGB are for the most part staffed by volunteer members. This was primarily about funding international competitions in the UK, AFAICT.


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## pip6 (22 January 2015)

It was heavily pushed by the board. It will only benefit limited members (including some on the board and their family members), but those are the ones highly active and likely to reply. I don't believe in it at all, but having said that there are plenty of people on this forum willing to take prize money from group vii countries such as a certain royal horse show sponsored by bahrain and events (including weg) sponsored by their companies, so plenty of other equestrians are willing to put aside morals for money, not just endurance.

Sad thing is, first week when it's announced in hh mag, it's paired up with yet another example of a certain sheik connected to meydans family being involved in a horse switching (ie cheating) scandal. Still never mind, as long as our fei endurance riders keep getting their free barbques at euston before the rides it's all okay. Better watch out it isn't a marmoog or pang burger, or whatever they've changed their names to to hide their competition records.


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## paulineh (23 January 2015)

Interesting that more people are now members of EGB that at the same time last year. It maybe that the final number of members are the same as last year but we will have to see.

I believe that it is not only the people at the top that will benefit but those lower down. We will just have to see. 

Bad news will always make the headlines, not the day to day achievements of those who work hard, scrimp and save to enjoy a lovely sport.

The Arabs tried to do it in racing but everyone else is still racing and winning.


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## spookypony (23 January 2015)

SERC voted not to apply to EGB for a share of the pie...


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## pip6 (24 January 2015)

If you are non-fei, not after training and not a young rider there's sweet fa in it. Mind you i'm glad as i can choose not to touch this filthy lucre or enter a ride it 'sponsors'.

All regions now have to apply for a share of the money, don't assume it will automatically be coming to your region.........


Anyone else read the 'sheik your booty' piece in private eye about this debarcle? Don't know where they got their info but it's very accurate.


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## Flame_ (24 January 2015)

pip6 said:



			If you are non-fei, not after training and not a young rider there's sweet fa in it. Mind you i'm glad as i can choose not to touch this filthy lucre or enter a ride it 'sponsors'.

All regions now have to apply for a share of the money, don't assume it will automatically be coming to your region.........
		
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Yes, I could perhaps pursue the training bit of of the "benefits for all" blah, blah But wouldn't want to accept money from this source in particular, plus I would always prefer to pay for any training and rides on my terms as the customer, even if that limits how much I could do. I do hope Cheshire tell them where to stick it but the chances of that are slim to none.



pip6 said:



			Anyone else read the 'sheik your booty' piece in private eye about this debarcle? Don't know where they got their info but it's very accurate.
		
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Yes I've seen that. I don't know how the board have brazened this thing through. I'm pretty ashamed for them tbh.


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## pip6 (13 February 2015)

Seen the latest group VII incident? Poor horse with both front legs fractured, 3 fatalities in one event. How lucky we are to be associated with this group now. If any other horse sport had this record they would be thrown out of all international competition, but money buys everything, even cleansing by association with 'clean' national governing body. Roll on the paid for fei races at Euston. Wonder what who will be waiting on course to jab a horse or swap mounts. More fool anyone in the uk who thinks they can really control these people and stop the abuse and cheating.


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## Morgan123 (13 February 2015)

pip6 said:



			Seen the latest group VII incident? Poor horse with both front legs fractured, 3 fatalities in one event. How lucky we are to be associated with this group now. If any other horse sport had this record they would be thrown out of all international competition, but money buys everything, even cleansing by association with 'clean' national governing body. Roll on the paid for fei races at Euston. Wonder what who will be waiting on course to jab a horse or swap mounts. More fool anyone in the uk who thinks they can really control these people and stop the abuse and cheating.
		
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Well, it's similar to racing isn't it - which also has many fatalities and hasn't been 'thrown out of all international competition'. It's awful that this happened to this horse and many others like it, both in racing and endurance.
Interestingly, we're hearing less these days about accidents racing; is that just less coverage, or have things been put in place to make it safer, and if so what?


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## Flame_ (13 February 2015)

No, it isn't similar to racing, it is heading the way of racing in some ways. If racing were just starting out it wouldn't get past the animal rights groups for a minute, but the fact is that it is such an established industry with a lot of powerful people and their money heavily involved in it which means that it is just too strong an institution for them to have a hope of taking on IMO. Endurance is relatively new, and a fairly small scale minority sport if welfare groups saw fit to take it down it would be a tiny fraction of the challenge that taking down racing would.

ETA And, this latest dead horse broke TWO legs and tested positive for banned substances. That would not be accepted in racing or any equestrian discipline.


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## Alec Swan (13 February 2015)

Flame_ said:



			&#8230;&#8230;.. . Endurance is relatively new, and a fairly small scale minority sport if welfare groups saw fit to take it down it would be a tiny fraction of the challenge that taking down racing would.

&#8230;&#8230;.. .
		
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With the odd half-mill donation dropped in to the laps of the average charity/welfare,  there wouldn't be a word said,  trust me! 

Alec.


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## Clodagh (13 February 2015)

With racing, and yes I have though tther are similarities, I imagine the %age of fatalitites is much lower overall and the horses are given medical treatment IMMEDIATELY.
Also the banned substances would not be allowed for a second and things I was reading about, like packing a horse's anus with ice to get it past the vet would not happen on a racecourse. 
Endurance is a sport that has no place in the modern world.


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## lhotse (13 February 2015)

It does have a place in the modern world, just not their interpretation. Sadly, it looks like this could be the last year of the Golden Horseshoe Ride unless new organisers can be found. The ride will be celebrating it's 50th anniversary this year but, although the pleasure classes and the lower distances are well supported, the main rides have seen entries dwindling into the single figures.
 Maybe EGB should be putting more effort into saving this iconic ride rather than putting it all into keeping the Group IV countries happy at Euston Park and other flat venues. You would never get those countries on Exmoor, it's only about going as fast as possible for them. The horsemanship that enables riders to cross 100 miles over 2 days on Exmoor is in danger of being lost in the quest for speed. Some of these riders would fall off at the first steep descent. 
Sadly, I think that this sponsorship deal will encourage some of our riders to take on the mindset of those countries to enable them to compete. Some worrying comments have already appeared on FB pages of some of our younger riders concerning what they think is acceptable. Once these practices become the norm, then I do think the sport will be lost.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSyhB7mOplQ

or

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDoPQ4jJ5jM

I know which one I prefer!!


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## Exploding Chestnuts (14 February 2015)

I am absolutely appalled by this change in the ethos of the sport, innocently I thought it was about horsemanship, but it seems it is racing over distances using whatever methods are required to win.
The best thing for our National organisation is to disband, giving reasons. 
A new body,  ....... Ethical Endurance UK can be formed. Any owner/trainer/competitor to sign up to stringent terms and conditions. If this means that the UK becomes isolated and the sport is self funded,  is that not better?
I find it difficult to believe any of the members are unaware of the situation.


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## Alec Swan (14 February 2015)

Bonkers2,  you aren't alone in your thoughts.  Rather than disband the corrupt and corrupted existing organisations,  it would be better to set up those which are viewed as being,  as you say,  ethical,  and leave those that are corrupt to compete amongst themselves,  or collapse.  Whilst endurance riders continue to support corruption,  then corruption will 'rule',  it seems to me!

Alec.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (14 February 2015)

Alec Swan said:



			Bonkers2,  you aren't alone in your thoughts.  Rather than disband the corrupt and corrupted existing organisations,  it would be better to set up those which are viewed as being,  as you say,  ethical,  and leave those that are corrupt to compete amongst themselves,  or collapse.  Whilst endurance riders continue to support corruption,  then corruption will 'rule',  it seems to me!

Alec.
		
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That would not work, the sport is GB wide and requires total commitment and one organisation.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (14 February 2015)

Morgan123 said:



			Well, it's similar to racing isn't it - which also has many fatalities and hasn't been 'thrown out of all international competition'. It's awful that this happened to this horse and many others like it, both in racing and endurance.
Interestingly, we're hearing less these days about accidents racing; is that just less coverage, or have things been put in place to make it safer, and if so what?
		
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The UK racing industry, and it is one of the top ten industries in the UK, is well regulated, some cheats try to use illegal methods or circumvent rules, but in general it is a clean sport.
If you go to some of the bigger meetings you will find some activists handing out leaflets, I doubt few are even read. Like any sports news, there are peaks of interest in the press.
If you followed racing you would know that the whip rules are under constant scrutiny, horse welfare on tracks is extremely high, design, construction and placing of fences is adjusted for safety reasons. Track conditions are adjusted for safety reasons, use of plastic covers on tracks, meetings abandoned for safety reasons,  non slip surfaces in parade rings, cushioned railings, doubled up plastic railing.  Horse ambulances, trained vets, stewards, staff, jockeys,  trainers, yard staff, security, alcohol in plastic containers, just a few improvements in last ten years.
Just look at old races on youtube to see the differences.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (14 February 2015)

Re the similarities to racing, in the UK, and probably elsewhere, endurance is a niche sport, of little or no interest to many outside its own stakeholders. 
Some of the same people who get a bad name in endurance have tried the same things here, they have been found out. They are not allowed to "own" the sport of UK racing.
Even better, they are not winning that many races in spite of all their attempts to breed, buy, and train the best. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-v9RcYWC8-A


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## palo1 (14 February 2015)

The Danish Endurance Federation have made a statement to say that they will not allow their riders to compete in Group VII non-FEI races and that for FEI races the rider and horse will have had to qualify and ride as a partnership.  The US are considering the same.  It is a great shame EGB cannot make a similar rule.  I am not sure there is enough money or influence outside Group VII to change their behaviour but there is no honour whatsoever in being associated with this perversion of real endurance sport.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (14 February 2015)

I just hope that most of those who feel strongly about it will qualify then refuse to compete against these people, as above [palo], it is perfectly easy to alter the rules to make it a measure of horsemanship, not a matter of winning at any cost.
By not doing anything Endurance GB make themselves look weak, which they are.


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## Flame_ (14 February 2015)

Bonkers2 said:



			That would not work, the sport is GB wide and requires total commitment and one organisation.
		
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Only because the top wants/ needs the support of the bottom.  If Sport Endurance handle things well they could end up the major UK organisation leaving only those with an interest in FEI sticking with EGB as they have no alternative. It was suggested on the members forum that there could be a super league for the high speed racers to go off and play amongst themselves and leave the rest of us to it, the point is they wouldn't because they want our financial and voluntary work party contributions! I'd be fine with a split and would move on to a favourable alternative in a heartbeat, I don't really do loyalty, but whether one happens or not and to support one organisation or two, or three, etc, the sport needs to expand but it won't while it is associated with horse abuse.

ETA also in response to this point, SERC have hung on to their independence and seem to be doing well for it.


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## claracanter (14 February 2015)

I have never really followed Endurance but that photograph of Splitters Creek Bundy is heart-wrenching.I am appalled and disgusted. I am not a 'fluffy bunny brigade' as I love my racing and all the agony that goes with that.I know the Arabs dominate flat racing in this country but there are rules that protect horses welfare. The whole Meydan sponsorship stinks and I wish someone could rise up against the tide and put a stop to it but unfortunately we live in a world where money talks and money silences. At least Prince Haya has left FEI so thats something, isn't it?


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## Echo Bravo (14 February 2015)

If you don't agree with what the English FEI, best you can do is leave with your feet and take your money and support with you and take it back to the sports roots, which is about fun not money, yes you need money to put events on but not prize money in my day a rossette was good enough.


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## SO1 (14 February 2015)

Not necessarily I work for a charity and we have had lots of companies and individuals wanting to provide sponsorship, including one company who wanted to give us 2 million but we have had to turn down all offers as we have yet to find any company or person without any skeletons in the closet.

There were people who felt that the 2 million pounds could do a lot to help others but in the end the trustees voted against it. We actually had a bit debate about sponsorship and that even if the research shows an business or person to be clear of unethical activities it does not mean that they will be so in the future so it is very tricky.

I have always thought the endurance had good welfare because it was not just about winning but about the achievement of doing a long demanding ride in partnership with a horse. I guess the more it becomes a race with winning being so very important the more likely people are to do things that compromise horse welfare in their desperation to win.



Alec Swan said:



			With the odd half-mill donation dropped in to the laps of the average charity/welfare,  there wouldn't be a word said,  trust me! 

Alec.
		
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## pip6 (16 February 2015)

Let me make one very clear point, this 'sport' is not endurance. These people race to win at any cost (examples are injecting snake venom, using banned substances, switching horses during a ride, ice in anus, twitching a horses ear into vet gate, crew hitting the horse as it competes, crew vehicles following right beside horse making as much noise as possible to scare horse into going faster, using extra long reins so they can be 'whipped' either side of neck as whips are banned on final loop) to gain 'honour'. Endurance is being split in two, 'classical' where to complete is to win and 'sport' where to win at any cost. Unfortunately increasing numbers of gb riders with fei aspirations are falling into the latter camp, and happily accept handouts from group vii countries.

However, before other horse sports get holier than thou regarding money from group vii countries, how many would refuse to enter a prestigeous show because it was sponsored by a group vii country, or stop going racing, or not aim to compete at WEG because one of their companies pay for it? I don't see BEF refusing to enter top competitions because they don't like the morals of where the money has come from. BTW, did you know Royal Windsor horse show has been paid for the past 3 years by Bahrain? How many showing people would refuse to enter on account of this? It should be the entire equestrian community taking a stand, because all are tainted by this filthy lucre.

I personally have asked for all egb rides 'sponsored' by these countries to be declared, as they weren't last year. This would give riders who don't want to be associated with their money to choose not to enter. The board have been very devious regarding their money even before this deal. Transparency should be absolute, enabling each person to make their own choice, to take away the chance to make an informed choice is reprehensible given the depth of feeling they know exists in the organisation.

It is gutting BEF & EGB aren't making a statement and taking a stand on these practices, but Alec is right, money talks very loudly. If your charity is more moral, then that is great to hear. Sadly many organisations and people are cheaply bought.

It is getting to the point where the 'sport' form should be split off and taken under the flat racing banner. It is not endurance. Maybe they'd make a better job of cleaning up the sport. 'Classical' does not have the issues of numbers of horses on drips at the end, broken limbs (only ever heard of couple in uk, they were accidents), broken horses, basically any cheating or horse abuse. True endurance enthusiasts adore their horses first and foremost. The pleasure of the ride is to spend time with your horse on challenging terrain and beating the course, not another rider. No they would never enter GHS, wrong terrain, technically very tough, not fast and not a race. I strongly encourage riders to try the pleasure ride at GHS whilst you have the chance, it is a wonderful ride where despite the challenge you wont find broken horses!


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## Mitchyden (16 February 2015)

I've left EGB for the time being until Meydan pull their sponsorship, which let's face it, they will! As soon as things don't go their own way or there is another scandal in this country, they will leave EGB high and dry like they did a few years ago. Once they are no longer sponsoring EGB then I will consider going back. It's a shame as I have a 9 y.o who has been competing for 3 years and an 18 y.o and she has been competing since she was 5 and absolutely loves it. Now I've become a happy hacker instead which is sad for me as I'm a very competitive person :-(


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## Exploding Chestnuts (16 February 2015)

Mitchyden said:



			I've left EGB for the time being until Meydan pull their sponsorship, which let's face it, they will! As soon as things don't go their own way or there is another scandal in this country, they will leave EGB high and dry like they did a few years ago. Once they are no longer sponsoring EGB then I will consider going back. It's a shame as I have a 9 y.o who has been competing for 3 years and an 18 y.o and she has been competing since she was 5 and absolutely loves it. Now I've become a happy hacker instead which is sad for me as I'm a very competitive person :-(
		
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That is very sad, I am surprised no one has called for change in the rules to stop the practices which we are discussing, I would assume any member has the right to put an amendment to rules on the agenda at the AGM, and even to call an EGM asking for the committee to resign due to their actions, citing loss of confidence in their integrity, and I assume there is some sort of Statement in their constitution.
PS there's TREC , which is International, and also adult games, but you might need a pony!


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## Mitchyden (16 February 2015)

Bonkers2 said:



			That is very sad, I am surprised no one has called for change in the rules to stop the practices which we are discussing, I would assume any member has the right to put an amendment to rules on the agenda at the AGM, and even to call an EGM asking for the committee to resign due to their actions, citing loss of confidence in their integrity, and I assume there is some sort of Statement in their constitution.
PS there's TREC , which is International, and also adult games, but you might need a pony!
		
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I did think about TREC but I love riding the long distances ie 40-50 miles and TREC has a maximum of 25 I think and that's at the higher levels. 
I'm getting married this year so I'm being kept busy with other things but I think next year it will really hit me hard. I've also got a 3y.o. rescue pony that was meant to be having a career in endurance. Hopefully another society will expand into my area or Meydan will be long gone by the time she's ready to compete.

Unfortunately, it's the FEI that are not enforcing the rules but we are all trying our hardest to get it sorted. Sadly though, money talks :-(


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## pip6 (20 February 2015)

It gets to a point where you can't predict the stupidity of what they will try in order to get e rule down. Unless there is a rule specifically against it they will try anything (and happily break rules that exist as well). The current one is to put a pair of racing blinkers on, then cover the eye holes until all but a tiny hole one the bottom remains, then plug the ears with cotton wool so they are deaf as well as blind. They claim it is to keep the sand out the eyes of the crew vehicles that run alongside the horses the whole way. The rest of us see it as another devious ploy designed to quieten a horse so a novice rider can manage it, hide face markings to make switching horses less obvious. It's incredible, I mean would you compete a deaf/blind horse at any speed, let alone 25kph+ they usually go at? Even at one ride where a letter was sent out banning these blinkers, a horse was still photographed in them and no officials stopped them. They 'get away with it' because these are national, not fei rides, so the fei doesn't even say anything, it is mute on the subject. Yet another example where for horse welfare they should be taking an active stance. Bef & egb have also not issued a statement regarding their use. There is no rule about it in egb handbook (if a gb rider tried this they would be lynched before the start), so are they going to pull this trick at the euston rides or any other gb rides they ordain to enter?


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## palo1 (20 February 2015)

Well that would be interesting.  Perhaps a pre-emptive rule amendment or statement might be needed.  I think if these blinders were used at a UK venue (and the Emirates Equestrian Fed have banned altered/amended blinkers them in their rides, though it hasn't made any difference to them being used) there would be such an outcry that it might help to force EGB to actually make a stand about things though it would be interesting to know on what grounds.  Its crazy that some countries have thought of practices that are so clearly wrong that no-one has thought it necessary to 'ban' them.  It just helps to show the difference in approach between traditional endurance and the desert style abomination.  I don't think the Meydan deal has gone through yet though EGB also haven't announced the additional safeguarding measures promised in the wake of poor Bundy's death during the Al Reef race.  It certainly is a can of worms.


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## lhotse (26 February 2015)

http://fei.org/news/fei-removes-uae-international-endurance-events-official-calendar


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## Exploding Chestnuts (26 February 2015)

I assume this is good news all round.


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## Alec Swan (26 February 2015)

lhotse said:



http://fei.org/news/fei-removes-uae-international-endurance-events-official-calendar

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Excellent,  and now all that we need is for the BHA to acquire a spine.

Alec.


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## skydy (26 February 2015)

Alec Swan said:



			Excellent,  and now all that we need is for the BHA to acquire a spine.

Alec.
		
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Good luck! 

Hopefully this shameful business will be put to an end now that Haya is only an "honorary" president of the FEI..

I am not holding my breath however, as UAE money is always present and "talking" loudly.


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## FairyLights (27 February 2015)

EGB are a disgrace


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## pip6 (28 February 2015)

EGB have withdrawn from the deal. Sense at last.

Now lets see other GB horse sports refuse to take their cash!


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## Follysmum (28 February 2015)

Fabulous news.


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## ester (28 February 2015)

wow, did they state why pip?


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## pip6 (28 February 2015)

Result of recent events, including FEI actions and following discussion with BEF. Don't feel it's fair to quote the email to members, as I just don't quote personal emails without direct permission from author.


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## ester (28 February 2015)

Oh no, wouldn't expect you to, I just wondered if they had said anything about pressure from members/recent events or just said change of plan.


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## Meowy Catkin (28 February 2015)

That's good news.


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## pip6 (28 February 2015)

There have been calls on the forum that it would be an appropriate time to back out of the deal, preferably before they threw (another) hissy fit and withdrew themselves. You wont be surprised at how disgusted many members are over recent events, but sadly not surprised.


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## skydy (1 March 2015)

Great news!

Well done.


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## paulineh (1 March 2015)

pip6  EGB have not totally with drawn. It is all on hold at the moment. Any member of the public can read the email that was sent to the members to see what was said.

Although I did vote Yes, the resent events has put doubt into my mind. I thought that some of the deal would be an advantage to our members. I was also discussed at what I have read and seen in the recent weeks. I hoped that the Fei would do their job and yes by withdrawing the Fei rides from the calendar ios a step forward.


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## Mitchyden (2 March 2015)

I will be renewing my membership again this year providing there is absolutely no chance of this deal going through in 2015. If there is any chance of it going through, I will not renew. I can't see as it will though as I should imagine Meydan have thrown all their toys out of their pram already!!


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## pip6 (2 March 2015)

Hopefully they will have lost enough face at this rejection to kill the deal. It's dirty money tainted by horse abuse and cheating, not just in their own country by wherever they compete. Let's not forget the Marmoog (who has no been conveniently renamed on the FEI register) horse swapping scandal was in the uk. Then there was the Italien case as well (Pang). We cannot provide people to be everywhere to stop cheating, they can buy enough people to cheat.


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