# Horse and Hound, Above the Law ?



## gemstoneflyer13 (22 April 2014)

As a last resort I seem to find myself resulting to the one option that I loath the most, however after going through the proper channels, this is my last resort. 

Recently I have seen a lot of small and large companies get completely slated beyond and means of the imagination on this 'forum site'. Now although I do believe in freedom of speech etc, it does get to the point where you have to consider is it legal for the posters/users to continue this action and also for Horse and Hound to continue to let so many companies get criticised and demeaned in this way. 

Having experienced this first hand, I decided to look deeper into the law after being informed via email that Horse and Hound would take no further action unless posts were in breech of their terms and conditions. This lead me to discover the following; 


It is stated within English Law that actions of libel may be bought to the High Court, this includes published  statements which are alleged to defame a named individual (under English law, companies are considered as a legal person, and are allowed to bring suit for defamation) in a manner which causes them to lose trade or profession, or may cause a reasonable person to think worse of them.


Furthermore, liability for a defamatory statement may also be extended to an institution under the principles of vicarious liability or because, in providing online access facilities, Horse and Hound is directly liable as a publisher or disseminator of the offending statement.
In previous cases of liability for defamation, such as Keith-Smith V Williams (2006), it has been shown that that prosecution can be successful for the plaintiff. This case is very similar to my own as the defamatory statement was made in a chat room where the remarks were available for worldwide viewing.


In my opinion I do believe by allowing these statements to be publicised, that Horse and Hound are knowingly committing an offence in regard to threads against individuals and companies.

Would be very interested to hear other peoples opinions on this matter.


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## Kat (22 April 2014)

The thing is that for a libel action to succeed the claimant has to prove that the statement was untrue!


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## gemstoneflyer13 (22 April 2014)

Defamation&#8212; is the communication of a false statement that harms the reputation of an individual, business, product, group, government, religion, or nation. Most jurisdictions allow legal action to deter various kinds of defamation and retaliate against groundless criticism.

Under common law, to constitute defamation, a claim must generally be false and have been made to someone other than the person defamed. Some common law jurisdictions also distinguish between spoken defamation, called slander, and defamation in other media such as printed words or images, called libel.

Although it may have to be proved that the statement is untrue for Libel, however there is different types of defamation and in many cases concerning posts on a thread in this forum it may be considered as False Light, in being about the impression created rather than being about true or false.


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## Spring Feather (22 April 2014)

H&H is merely a medium for individuals to speak on the www.  If any company or establishment feels that certain posters have made defamatory comments and untruths then they are all free to bring a suit against the alleged perpetrator/s.  So if you feel you have a solid case, go ahead.


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## gemstoneflyer13 (22 April 2014)

I have started legal proceedings for this matter however was just wondering what peoples views are on publicly expressing their opinions on companies/business's.


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## Spring Feather (22 April 2014)

gemstoneflyer13 said:



			I have started legal proceedings for this matter however was just wondering what peoples views are on publicly expressing their opinions on companies/business's.
		
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I believe in free speech so obviously I have no problem at all with people giving their experiences of companies/businesses.  It's fairly easy, in this world of media network systems, to find out whether a company has a good or bad reputation tbh; H&H is just one of those mediums.  Good luck with your proceedings; from what I know of the law, on the contrary, it is actually very difficult indeed to win a case like this.


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## Cherrydan (22 April 2014)

If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen!...I think you earn a reputation and if the public think the service you provide is rubbish, you earned that. Also, would you whinge if the consensus was amazing?...I doubt it. Dont like it? Then go away, I don't like to see a great forum, being slated, just because you didnt get the reviews you wanted....As I said, you earn a reputation, and H&H won a very special award recently...did you?


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## gemstoneflyer13 (22 April 2014)

This is one of the many problems with this forum, people over react very quickly.  I can stand the heat thank you very much however I don't believe that companies should have to worry about the continuous threat of bad press from forums such as these, especially fledgling companies. 

Its allowing users to publicly put their side of the story across while all the company can do is just sit back and watch while their name gets thrown in the dirt. I have seen a few companies comment back and all it gets them is more grief for trying to provide solutions to a problem.


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## Spring Feather (22 April 2014)

gemstoneflyer13 said:



			This is one of the many problems with this forum, people over react very quickly.  I can stand the heat thank you very much however I don't believe that companies should have to worry about the continuous threat of bad press from forums such as these, especially fledgling companies. 

Its allowing users to publicly put their side of the story across while all the company can do is just sit back and watch while their name gets thrown in the dirt. I have seen a few companies comment back and all it gets them is more grief for trying to provide solutions to a problem.
		
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I agree actually.  I have to say I do think it is often better for companies to sit back and remain silent if/when they are taking a bit of an online beating.  Reputation is earned and if a company does have a genuinely good reputation then a dozen or so random keyboard warriers won't tarnish that reputation :smile3:


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## Cherrydan (22 April 2014)

In the age of the internet, news travels very fast....reviews put buyers in charge, and I like it that way. I am not overreacting, it isnt me looking up ways to sue a valuable asset to a lot of horsey people....or opening new accounts to slate a forum. If your product was so great, you wouldn't be in the state you are in. Maybe use the time and energy to improve your situation/reputation.


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## gemstoneflyer13 (22 April 2014)

It may be a valuable asset for asking advice on ways to gain advice on their horses however it is not when it is publicly naming and shaming. I know that many other groups and forums to do not allow this so I'm wondering why horse and hound allow their forum to do so. 

They are also not interested in helping you at all in regards to thread posts via email, after sending two emails like advised to a certain department I was given no indication that they had even received them.


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## Spring Feather (22 April 2014)

I see nothing at all wrong with naming and shaming if a company has provided shoddy workmanship, or given poor customer service and if what has been said is true, then any sensible business owner would realise there is no case to be brought.  However if they still want to go ahead then they are free to do so, might just cost them a fair bit of money with nothing but debt to show for it at the end should they lose.  

As to conversing with H&H staff via email, that's nothing to do with us; that's a private communication between you and them.


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## Cherrydan (22 April 2014)

If every post was regarding advice on horsecare etc, your thread wouldn't have stood a chance, now would it? You had a knock to your ego, learn from it, there is a blessing in every lesson, and it all points to self improvement, rather than berating unhappy customers, perhaps Thank H&H for providing a platform where freedom of speech and opinions different to your own are allowed. Take whatever blow as constructive criticism, rather than 'threatening' a company who could have been the making of your own (should your service have been up to par).


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## Spring Feather (22 April 2014)

Oh gawd this isn't about that ridiculously long thread about those ridiculous equine garments that was on here a month or so ago, is it?  *Yawn*  I didn't get involved in it but did read with a bit of a chuckle from time to time lol!  If it is OP, for goodness sake just move on.  You'll only stir it all back up again and then there will be yet another forever Internet thread about your company which could put off future potential customers.  Sheesh don't people ever learn?


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## Cherrydan (22 April 2014)

Lol, I thought that SF...but as Op has created a new username, I doubt we will ever know! An old saying comes to mind:
"when you are dead, lay down"...in your horsey pyjamas, if they fit!  Lol.x


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## Spring Feather (22 April 2014)

Cherrydan said:



			Lol, I thought that SF...but as Op has created a new username, I doubt we will ever know! An old saying comes to mind:
"when you are dead, lay down"...in your horsey pyjamas, if they fit!  Lol.x
		
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Lmao!  Love it! :biggrin3:  Thanks for the laugh CD.


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## Cherrydan (22 April 2014)

For you SF, anything!  x


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## Patterdale (22 April 2014)

As admin have pointed out before, the views expressed here are not theirs - it's a PUBLIC forum. 
As such, a business can exercise their right to reply, which, in the recent loooong thread (if that's what this is on about), they HAVE. 

If the business owner can't prove that the customers are lying, and then is rude and bad mannered into the bargain, causing yet more grief for themselves, and THEN asks for the now epic thread to be removed.......well, I'd say tough. 

If my business were being 'slated' on here and it was all complete and utter malicious fabrication, then no way would I engage with them - I'd simply take steps to get the thread removed (admin can and have done this) whilst not bumping it up the forum. 

The trouble is, in the recent threads, there has been genuine poor customer service (and not only reported on this forum). Now, if this were me, I would use my right to reply to apologise and try to IMPROVE my company's image - not call my customers liars, blame them for the problems when they are finally admitted to, stick my head in the sand and be generally extremely rude. And then, when I've done a good chunk of the damage myself, expect admin to just remove pages and pages of user content because I've messed up. 

But it would seem that some people never learn, as all this thread will do is just dredge it all up again - which, as it was started by you, only goes to show that you don't actually mind using public forum generally, and this one particularly, to air your grievances. You just don't want people to do it with regards to YOUR company. 

You can't have it all ways you know....


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## Clare85 (22 April 2014)

As Spring Feather and Cherrydan have said, I'm a firm believer that reputation is earned. If a product is of poor quality or poor customer service is provided or the general customer experience is negative then of course the company involved will earn a bad reputation - and rightly so. Just as it will earn a good reputation if the opposite is true. Of course people will share their experiences, if something bad has happened to you, you will generally try to ensure the same thing doesn't happen to someone else. Nowadays with the extent of social media opinions reach much further. 

I don't know your situation OP but IMO taking legal action against someone is very serious and very costly - I hope you have a good solid case to do so or you could end up damaging your reputation irreparably. Sometimes you have to roll with the punches, take a good look at the situation and decide whether there is something more positive to focus your attention on. Everyone goes through tough times, especially when starting up a new company I would imagine, but a positive reputation doesn't just materialise out of nowhere. IME you won't earn it by chucking law suits at unhappy customers.


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## The wife (22 April 2014)

^ This entirely ^ sometimes in business one has to super critical and put themselves into their customers shoes. Feedback is an excellent tool that can only be used positively for said business owner. In my eyes there is no such thing as negative feedback but then perhaps it's handy to actually be critical of something and use what has been said as a way of improving.

OP you'll never make everybody happy, it's a simple fact of life but learn from what has been stated and aim to change the bad bits. I know it's hard putting literally hours of blood, sweat and tears into a business - christ the amount of sleepless nights i've had would make me an insomniac but just got to take the rough with the smooth and aim to do better in the future.


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## Greylegs (22 April 2014)

To me, the issue here is that of "truth". If someone on the forum tells a tale of woe about their experiences with a particular company, then as long as they are being truthful in their account of events, then the company concerned can have no axe to grind. Clearly, recounting those poor experiences in public, to an interested audience, may then have the effect of influencing others not to trade with that company, and to go elsewhere to spend their money! 

To survive in any commercial environment, whatever business you're in, you need to offer good products/service to your customers at a fair price and hope they either trade with you again, or tell their friends how great you are so they are encouraged to trade with you as well. This is how good businesses survive. ....(there are hundreds of text books available on the topic, should you wish to read them). ... 

The converse is also true .... You offer poor products/service, get slated, and customers disappear. To me, this isn't a matter for legal redress. It's a matter of good commercial practice ... 

So my thoughts would be ... Address your current unhappiness by running a sound business, producing good products and offering excellent customer service, rather than running bleating to the courts or berating H&H when things get commercially uncomfortable and you don't like what's being bandied about on an Internet forum.

Eta ... If we are talking about "that" thread, I was another who couldn't be bothered to read it, other than to groan inwardly when yet another response bumped it up again. May it rest in peace .....


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## Maiko (22 April 2014)

If a company is delivering a good level of service, with a decent quality product, and making best efforts to rectify any problems that arise, they are HIGHLY unlikely to appear on an internet forum in a negative way.

If they deliver extremely poor customer service, or their product is not up to scratch, or they don't communicate, or worse still blame their customers in a rude and aggressive way, then they should EXPECT to get a public slating on the internet. 

"Do as you would be done by", applies equally to individuals as to companies.


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## Dry Rot (22 April 2014)

As I understand it (and a lawyer I ain't!) this subject is quite complicated.

The truth is a good defence. So if I defame someone, they can sue me. My defence would be that what I said was true -- but I would have to produce evidence to prove that it was true to the satisfaction of the court. That is not quite the same thing as simply stating that I've only spoken the truth.

People are allowed to have opinions and to state them in public, but making false defamatory statements could be actionable in a court of law and if you can't prove what you've said is true you could lose. I happen to think the format of this forum is out of date and cumbersome and I cannot for the life of me understand how it could win any prizes! That is possibly defamatory but it is also my honest opinion and I doubt a court would entertain HHO bringing an action against me. (I suspect others will also agree that I speak the truth!).

Honest comments in the public interest are allowed.

You do not need to name the person to be successfully sued. All that's needed is for them to be identifiable.

If a poster on here started a campaign to defame me, I could sue HHO, I could sue the web presence provider,  I could sue the telephone company who bring the signal to my house&#8230;in fact all and anyone involved with bringing the defamation to public notice. In the case of a newspaper, it used to be (? still is) anyone in the publication process from the reporter, through the editor, newspaper company, the printers, right down to the newspaper boy on the street corner!

I was once cheated by a company. I took them to Small Claims and won my case. It cost them about £50. They thought this was hilarious and laughed at me. But he who laughs last, laughs longest! I then published the information on the Internet that I had sued this company, what for, and that I had won my case. The court judgement was caste iron proof that what I said was true. Many customers decided not to risk being treated as I had been treated and withdrew their custom. The company lost business and eventually went bankrupt. I can assure you this is a true story! Be careful out there, it is a minefield. Simply calling someone a defamer can also be defamation -- Justice is not shown blind folded and carrying a two edged sword for nothing.


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## AdorableAlice (22 April 2014)

gemstoneflyer13 said:



			I have started legal proceedings for this matter however was just wondering what peoples views are on publicly expressing their opinions on companies/business's.
		
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You must have more money than sense to be able to fund such a case.

The public expression of opinion on companies/business's and services is called 'review' or 'testimonial'.  Personally before any substantial purchase or decision I consider making is completed will always be reviewed through whatever means possible, ie trip advisor, the internet, word of mouth, viewing work completed or service provided.

Reputation is earned be it good or bad.


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## shadowboy (22 April 2014)

Also this forum is not all negative- for example swish horse rugs a small online rug company have had rave reviews in here and I for one bought their rugs because of it. They have earnt themselves an excellent reputation and based upon the product I bought and the dealings I had with that company I would say it is very much deserved. So it can go either way for a company and I think it's good that customers have been empowerd a bit more and can now pick and chose who they buy from based on others experiences. If a company if treating customers unfairly or making poor quality products it is important for people to know and if that means they discuss their events publicly than so be it.


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## MagicMelon (22 April 2014)

If its under English law then us Scots can continue to discuss companies  

I am assuming OP that your own company has perhaps been the subject of some slating on this forum which is why you're so concerned about it?  If Im honest, I believe people should be allowed to discuss whatever they want on a forum or anywhere else.  If a company is shoddy then people should know about it.  A company wont be slagged off if its decent...  As someone has already said, there's also a lot of recommendations of products etc. on here therefore it has to go both ways!


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## risky business (22 April 2014)

I would agree with your plight OP if the comments made on these companies were totally false. 

More often than not though you find these threads come about as an innocent party will buy a product from a company and find themselves out of pocket, being ignored or never receiving goods. So what do people do? They come here to a very public forum to find out if they are the only ones that have experienced this from certain companies. Then low and behold another who is having the same issue speaks up! They too are upset and annoyed at how they have been treated and rightly so. 

As the thread progresses with sorts of companies often many many others are having the same issue. Why post here? Because often the company in question isn't giving them answers or results! Why can't they moan about the service or company? After all most of the time it's them out of pocket and without the goods (in most cases).

90% of the posts on these companies are from folk who feel they have been cheated and fraued.. Not because they are bored on a Friday night.


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## TarrSteps (22 April 2014)

Good luck with your action, OP. The field of internet law is a complicated and ever evolving one!

Leaving aside your question and the validity of your claim, surely your legal advisors have suggested that discussing any on-going legal action on the internet, however obliquely, is a bad idea?


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## Nugget La Poneh (22 April 2014)

TarrSteps said:



			Good luck with your action, OP. The field of internet law is a complicated and ever evolving one!

Leaving aside your question and the validity of your claim, surely your legal advisors have suggested that discussing any on-going legal action on the internet, however obliquely, is a bad idea?
		
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Was just thinking this...

And as already pointed out - defamation/slander/libel only sticks when comments made are proven to be false. 

And the posts are too well written to be SMF. Even if they have been copied and pasted from other texts (*cough*plagiarism*cough*).

Or am I defaming the OP's character


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## LadyGascoyne (22 April 2014)

TarrSteps said:



			Leaving aside your question and the validity of your claim, surely your legal advisors have suggested that discussing any on-going legal action on the internet, however obliquely, is a bad idea?
		
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This! And a lawyer I am! (Albeit not English law)

You NEVER discuss ongoing cases. This thread has the potential to be very damaging to any case you may have. The courts are not going to be impressed with an online mudslinging match, I'm afraid.

If you really do have a case, and this is not just an empty threat, then my advice is to delete this thread immediately.


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## Nugget La Poneh (22 April 2014)

And I really would've chosen a better name as well OP.


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## Goldenstar (22 April 2014)

The best way is to run a great company serving your customers well then you never have an issue and if you do there are lots of satisfied customers around to defend you.
It's great to keep lawyers in work helps to pay for villas In Tuscany , children's in private schools etc etc .
But truly IMO you must have more money than sense , and I can think of no sensible reason for you to post this vaguely threatening unpleasant post .
Please go away .


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## RaposadeGengibre (22 April 2014)

Its not another season of garment Eastenders, is it?


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## chocolategirl (22 April 2014)

Personally I think it's good that we the consumer, are kept informed of people or companies that are rogue or give very bad service. If I gave bad service or sold dodgy products it would serve me right if somebody bubbled me! Our money is hard earned, and it makes me madder than a we then when people think they can rip you off or con you out of it and think they can get away with it. I really hope horse and hound don't stop these posts and like was previously said, if it's untrue what's being said, then that's a different matter entirely, but if it is, we all deserve to be  well warned!


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## chestnut cob (22 April 2014)

gemstoneflyer13 said:



			I have started legal proceedings for this matter however was just wondering what peoples views are on publicly expressing their opinions on companies/business's.
		
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If a business/company has provided a good service then surely they have nothing to worry about?  Those who are slated on here, are usually so for a good reason and one has to hope that they try to put things right.  When you see the same dealers and equestrian goods businesses being discussed on here, with 10s or 100s of people listing their bad experiences, that isn't one person libelling them.  A decent business would take a good look at itself in that situation and hopefully change its practices.  I think that people are realistic enough to realise that anyone can have a bad experience, any company can get something wrong, and if it is rectified then there is no issue.


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## dogatemysalad (22 April 2014)

Good luck with your case OP. Will you also be challenging Trip Advisor, Booking.Com and Expedia as well in your quest for the gagging of reviews and customers experiences ? 

There are many examples of good companies on this forum with excellent feed back, it works both ways. Reputations have to be earned. 

And I still don't like horse's in pyjamas.


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## *hic* (22 April 2014)

RaposadeGengibre said:



			Its not another season of garment Eastenders, is it?
		
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I think it's someone who's more recently been having customer problems on here - although I stand to be corrected on that. Posts are more literate than the other company but still with some glaring errors! At least they've found the spell check button though.


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## Goldenstar (22 April 2014)

chestnut cob said:



			I think that people are realistic enough to realise that anyone can have a bad experience, any company can get something wrong, and if it is rectified then there is no issue.
		
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I agree with this it's not that things go wrong that's the issue because in life things do go wrong it's what the company does about it that matters .
If a company behaves well and sorts the issue then I am happy .


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## WelshD (22 April 2014)

OP mentions fledgling companies and is quite articulate so i wonder if they are possibly connected to the other company discussed recently - the one that is operated with no stock and that thinks four months is an acceptable time to make people wait for orders. 

I echo the above points - if the reviews were good then you wouldnt be taking action and if your service was great there wouldnt be a problem! 

I suspect that the 'legal action' mentioned is just a solicitors letter at this stage 

Many forums do remove bad reviews but i am glad that H&H doesnt - it gives us a heads up or at least prompts us to make further enquiries so we can make an informed decision


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## Nugget La Poneh (22 April 2014)

chestnut cob said:



			If a business/company has provided a good service then surely they have nothing to worry about?  Those who are slated on here, are usually so for a good reason and one has to hope that they try to put things right.  When you see the same dealers and equestrian goods businesses being discussed on here, with 10s or 100s of people listing their bad experiences, that isn't one person libelling them.  A decent business would take a good look at itself in that situation and hopefully change its practices.  I think that people are realistic enough to realise that anyone can have a bad experience, any company can get something wrong, and if it is rectified then there is no issue.
		
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Exactly - no different to Tripadvisor. There are several hospitality owners/managers that are having to take long hard looks at their business because of repeated bad reviews. Many have tried to take on Tripadvisor to get the bad reviews taken down, but haven't won and the reason is because Tripadvisor feel that potential customers have the common sense to work out what is a genuine bad review, and a random bad apple report. 

If you are who I think you are, then you did try, but you appear to have still not delivered (literally) the service to help smooth your customer's furrowed brows. Having had my own business, I know that you get so involved in it that having even one negative customer experience really rocks the boat and your confidence. You would be far better off investing the solicitor fees in clearing up the issues you have currently, sitting back, taking stock and starting again. You need to make a decision as to how much time you want to invest as there are very few businesses that are truly possible on a part time basis.


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## amandap (22 April 2014)

LadyGascoyne said:



			This! And a lawyer I am! (Albeit not English law)

You NEVER discuss ongoing cases. This thread has the potential to be very damaging to any case you may have. The courts are not going to be impressed with an online mudslinging match, I'm afraid.

If you really do have a case, and this is not just an empty threat, then my advice is to delete this thread immediately.
		
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Sounds like good advice to me.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (22 April 2014)

I must have missed all the fluster and bluster, if it is a company I bought some poor quality stuff off a few years ago and who were totally not interested in my feedback [ a complaint by phone] I think they deserve bad reviews. I am sure fb is worse.
Anyone should be aware that only solicitors make money from court cases.


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## AmieeT (22 April 2014)

I think sometimes so long as there is good communication, delays and errors etc can be excused and the customer can remain happy.

If a company is routinely giving bad customer service, then it is to be expected that people will complain- be it in a forum, social networking, blog or any other internet outlet.

When multiple people complain on a site like this, I highly doubt any legal proceedings for libel will be taken through the courts with success- OP would have to disprove those statements.

Hardly the way to turn a reputation around- another well known company has recently been getting much better feedback from many, saying quite delivery and good service, despite the awful reviews it had previously. THAT is the way to turn it all around.

Ax


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## Goldenstar (22 April 2014)

gemstoneflyer13 said:



			This is one of the many problems with this forum, people over react very quickly.  I can stand the heat thank you very much however I don't believe that companies should have to worry about the continuous threat of bad press from forums such as these, especially fledgling companies. 

Its allowing users to publicly put their side of the story across while all the company can do is just sit back and watch while their name gets thrown in the dirt. I have seen a few companies comment back and all it gets them is more grief for trying to provide solutions to a problem.
		
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Free speech .
The internet is powerful it's protecting consumers we can move fast and communicate quickly with lots of people you can also connect with people who have had the same experience which was very difficult in the past.
HHO will doing far more to promote products as it's one of the main ways I find out about new things is forum members posting about them .


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## _GG_ (22 April 2014)

All companies make mistakes and get the occasional bad review. It is a drop in the ocean and a good company will resolve any disputes and save their reputation swiftly. 

We enjoy freedom of speech. That does not mean we are allowed to lie and that is clearly what you are getting at with your current action. Unfortunately, that brings with it what can be some very unpleasant proceedings unless you and your company are absolutely above reproach. 

In order for you to prove that the words printed within the pages of theses forums are lies, you have to allow full access to all communications in and out of your company. That means that everything will be reviewed. You can't simply delete the ones you think might get you in trouble and only leave the ones where you have behaved impeccably. They will know. Every part of your business will be picked apart by the opposing legal team. They will also contact everyone they can find who has written a bad review or posted negative comments about your company anywhere and they will either gather evidence in support of their clients or, if you're unlucky, they may begin to gather additional clients and start a counter suit action against your company. 

All of this will be in the public domain. Anyone will be able to walk into the court, if it got that far and follow the proceedings. That includes the media, so you need to think long and hard about how perfect your conduct has been in every communication, how fantastic your products have been, how wonderful your customer service has been and how diligently you have refunded any monies owed, dispatched items and dealt with genuine complaints. 

Let me also say...the law does not like to be used. It is a tool that is available to those who have been wronged. It is not a tool for people to use when they are angry and wish to seek some sort of vengeance, especially not a company seeking to claim against individuals. 

It's a very slippery slope when you decide to take this path. Your legal advisors will of course tell you that you have a strong case and you are more than likely going to come away the victor. They are always going to say this, for many reasons...the most common being that their clients don't usually tell them the whole truth, I know, the hypocracy!

By all means, if you feel you have a strong case and you have never failed in any way to provide excellent customer service, go ahead with the action. 

Just remember...when you have opened a door like this, you can never close it behind you.


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## Wagtail (22 April 2014)

Whilst I think that companies that are giving poor service should be named and shamed, I do think one or two threads on here have made for rather uncomfortable reading. Especially when things start to get personal and people take it upon themselves to do some sleuthing into their personal lives etc. Not nice at all and rather sinister. But so long as the thread is kept factual and does not descend into personal insults, then I don't see why these types of threads should be stopped. We all need to know if we are likely to lose money, or receive poor service if we order from certain companies.


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## Nancykitt (22 April 2014)

Having been involved in a defamation case some years ago, I can confirm that it is very difficult to prove. 
Not only do defamatory statements have to be false, but it must be proved that such actions have seriously damaged the reputation of the person (as in altering the perception of others). In effect, you have to show that the reputation was good and was then damaged as a direct result of defamatory statements. It seemed that it was virtually impossible to bring a successful case if there was any question of 'blemishes' to reputation prior to statements being made. The person/company pursuing the defamation case would have to prove the strength of their reputation. 

I was told that all of this was to stop people/companies over-reacting when faced with a bit of bad publicity.

Although I was successful, I would strongly advise against taking such action unless the case was rock solid and it was literally a matter of losing an entire livelihood.


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## TarrSteps (22 April 2014)

The above is a sound and sober warning. Suing is not for the faint of heart, even if the case is clear cut.

Just one comment about 'free speech' though - it is not universal license to say what is on your mind. If you are challenged to onus is on you to prove what said was true, not on the challenger to prove you false. And if it's proven you are consciously trying to defame someone for personal reasons then there is every reason to expect trouble. This is even more the case when you publish the information, which is what putting it on a forum is. Truth is not always a secure defence and, as Twain said, 'Your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins'. 

In this case the OP is trying to fight fire with fire though. . .be careful you don't get burned. 

All that said, the law is catching up with Facebook and forums. Don't assume everything you write just disappears into the ether


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## WelshD (22 April 2014)

If you wanted to make this a genuine discussion thread rather than a sour dig OP perhaps you should have chosen a name that you dont use to showcase your browbands online. That seems to be a quality product supported by good service and a sucess on your part so i am not sure why youd want to link it to something like this??

Of course i may be wrong and i apologise if so but its a heck of a coincidence


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## Goldenstar (22 April 2014)

1.14 in the morning seems a strange time for a company to start such a thread assuming it's in the UK.


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## biggingerpony (22 April 2014)

Gosh what a thread OP! I haven't been in involved in any of the other threads mentioned... But surely if someone receives a bad service they have the right to tell people? You would have every opportunity to join in and apologise to those concerned and fix the problem should you want to... There ought to be a procedure in place so that each customer complaint (and yes you can't please everyone) causes minimum damage to the company.

Surely it's no different than someone leaving a bad review about a restaurant or hotel on trip advisor? It may be even better because through PMing the problem may be able to be resolved quicker!


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## Dobiegirl (22 April 2014)

The first thing I thought when I read the OPs thread was horsey pjs and after reading all the posts I havnt changed my mind.


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## Goldenstar (22 April 2014)

Dobiegirl said:



			The first thing I thought when I read the OPs thread was horsey pjs and after reading all the posts I havnt changed my mind.
		
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I don't know but I think perhaps not .


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## Wagtail (22 April 2014)

Dobiegirl said:



			The first thing I thought when I read the OPs thread was horsey pjs and after reading all the posts I havnt changed my mind.
		
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Sounds like a completely different person to me. Style is very different.


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## gemstoneflyer13 (22 April 2014)

This has escalated quickly. I can confirm that my company is not that mentioned in any of the above posts however I have read their particular threads and they seem to be experiencing a similar problem. 

It is not that I believe in gagging public speech, however I do believe that the threads should not be allowed to turn into an argument as said previously eventually it gets personal and that should not be left to continue. 

The matter is just up for discussion to hear peoples opinions on the matter if the shoe was on the other foot how would you feel ?


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## Equi (22 April 2014)

I am sick to the back teeth of these "lible/slander" posts from everyone. If you offer a bad service, people deserve to know. It has gotten to the point bad businesses are allowed to thrive because people are afraid to say they have had a bad experience! What ever happened to taking on criticism to make yourself better?!?!?! If a company is getting slated the best thing they can do is ask people what they would like to see done better then follow through with it. This bloody county has gotten far to politically correct and it is NOT a good thing!


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## gembear (22 April 2014)

equi said:



			I am sick to the back teeth of these "lible/slander" posts from everyone. If you offer a bad service, people deserve to know. It has gotten to the point bad businesses are allowed to thrive because people are afraid to say they have had a bad experience! What ever happened to taking on criticism to make yourself better?!?!?! If a company is getting slated the best thing they can do is ask people what they would like to see done better then follow through with it. This bloody county has gotten far to politically correct and it is NOT a good thing!
		
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This. Apparently we're not allowed to have an opinion anymore.


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## Elsiecat (22 April 2014)

Why do people expect to provide an unsatisfactory service and then have people silenced in their complaints? If you don't want bad reviews - be professional. If you can't be professional - seize to operate. 
Not rocket science.


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## MadJ (22 April 2014)

gemstoneflyer13 said:



			This is one of the many problems with this forum, people over react very quickly.  I can stand the heat thank you very much however I don't believe that companies should have to worry about the continuous threat of bad press from forums such as these, especially fledgling companies. 

Its allowing users to publicly put their side of the story across while all the company can do is just sit back and watch while their name gets thrown in the dirt. I have seen a few companies comment back and all it gets them is more grief for trying to provide solutions to a problem.
		
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I work in the hospitality and catering trade. Trip Advisor is a massive website for people to air their views, both good and bad. 
How is posting an opinion on a forum any different or would businesses feel more comfortable if the comments were more contained in one place?


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## gemstoneflyer13 (22 April 2014)

The point that Im putting across here, is not one that I think no one should be allowed to voice their opinions. 

Like I said earlier people on this forum do over react to posts, you can gather this just by reading this thread. I originally asked for peoples 'opinions' on the matter, so I'm unsure how it could seem that I want to silence people.


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## JFTDWS (22 April 2014)

You asked for opinions, you've been given them, although they clearly weren't the ones you were hoping for.  How is that an over-reaction?


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## Amymay (22 April 2014)

gemstoneflyer13 said:



			The point that Im putting across here, is not one that I think no one should be allowed to voice their opinions.
		
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That is exactly what you're saying though.




			I originally asked for peoples 'opinions' on the matter, so I'm unsure how it could seem that I want to silence people.
		
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My opinion is that if you offer a service,  expect it to be commented on - for good or bad service.


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## Equi (22 April 2014)

You asked for the thread, whatever it was, to be removed and are seeking legal action i gather. That threat is enough to silence anyone. I've left many sites now because of the constant "im seeking legal action for slander" threats. It gets very tiring and worrisome!


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## MadJ (22 April 2014)

So there's no issue of people voicing their opinions as long as they're not negative ones?
You can't ever please everyone. It'd make my job a hell of a lot easier if "one size could fit all" but it doesn't. One persons lovely quiet evening meal is anothers' being ignored by staff. Even had one customer complain it was too busy. What can you do about that?


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## gemstoneflyer13 (22 April 2014)

Im not entirely bothered what the opinions that were voiced on this thread were, just wanted to see what people thought.


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## Amymay (22 April 2014)

gemstoneflyer13 said:



			The point that Im putting across here, is not one that I think no one should be allowed to voice their opinions.
		
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It's exactly what you're saying.




			Like I said earlier people on this forum do over react to posts, you can gather this just by reading this thread. I originally asked for peoples 'opinions' on the matter, so I'm unsure how it could seem that I want to silence people.
		
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My opinion is that if you're offering a service expect it to be commented on. Good or bad.


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## *hic* (22 April 2014)

gemstoneflyer13 said:



			This has escalated quickly. I can confirm that my company is not that mentioned in any of the above posts however I have read their particular threads and they seem to be experiencing a similar problem. 

It is not that I believe in gagging public speech, however I do believe that the threads should not be allowed to turn into an argument as said previously eventually it gets personal and that should not be left to continue. 

The matter is just up for discussion to hear peoples opinions on the matter if the shoe was on the other foot how would you feel ?
		
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AFPMSL



DressageDiva123 said:



			I ordered from (Mystery Company) at the end of December 2013. I waited patiently for months for my items... still nothing. I have recently been trying to message the owner on both her business page and personal page on facebook. 9 times out of 10 I am ignored. I have commented on the (Mystery Company) Page asking for an update on my order on a few occasions - and my comments just get deleted. I am now blocked from posting and commenting on the page, and also blocked from messaging. I cannot believe this, so unfair!! I have emailed also - guess what, it was ignored. So was a text I sent to the mobile number supplied on the website. I have been fobbed off the few times that I have received a reply from facebook message - excuses such as problems with supplier, my goods are already posted, my goods must be lost so now they have re ordered them. The excuses are never ending. I can't believe how many other people are also having this trouble! I have never had any such problems with any other company. I can't believe (Mystery Company) feel its acceptable to [content removed] give such bad customer service!!!
		
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If people would just like to click on the symbol next to DressageDiva's name to see the source of that quote, and then look at Admin's edit notes at the bottom of it . . .


"Oh what a tangled web we weave when once we practice to deceive"


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## Nugget La Poneh (22 April 2014)

gemstoneflyer13 said:



			Im not entirely bother what the opinions that were voiced on this thread were, just wanted to see what people thought.
		
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You're contradicting yourself though. Either you want peoples opinions (suck it up, move on) and thoughts (same thing btw), or you don't.

Or you're fact finding.

And I think hoping you will be able to present your case/do your own suing.


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## cobgoblin (22 April 2014)

gemstoneflyer13 said:



			The point that Im putting across here, is not one that I think no one should be allowed to voice their opinions. 

Like I said earlier people on this forum do over react to posts, you can gather this just by reading this thread. I originally asked for peoples 'opinions' on the matter, so I'm unsure how it could seem that I want to silence people.
		
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I don't think anyone has over reacted to your post. If you post something like this anonymously you can hardly blame people for speculating!
On the whole, I think more products receive positive promotion than negative from HHO. As previous posters have said, forums like this provide companies with an excellent opportunity to address any problems that arise and with far more speed than was possible before internet use.


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## Patterdale (22 April 2014)

gemstoneflyer13 said:



			It is not that I believe in gagging public speech, however I do believe that the threads should not be allowed to turn into an argument as said previously eventually it gets personal and that should not be left to continue.
		
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Ill ignore the obvious oxymoron here....

This is a PUBLIC. FORUM. It is not school, there is no teacher to stop people arguing, it is what it is. 
If you don't like it, don't engage. 



JFTD said:



			You asked for opinions, you've been given them, although they clearly weren't the ones you were hoping for.  How is that an over-reaction?
		
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True dat!


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## Nugget La Poneh (22 April 2014)

gemstoneflyer13 said:



			This has escalated quickly. I can confirm that my company is not that mentioned in any of the above posts however I have read their particular threads and they seem to be experiencing a similar problem.
		
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jemima*askin said:



			AFPMSL



If people would just like to click on the symbol next to DressageDiva's name to see the source of that quote, and then look at Admin's edit notes at the bottom of it . . .
		
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Hmmm. Thought my hunch was right.


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## Patterdale (22 April 2014)

jemima*askin said:



			If people would just like to click on the symbol next to DressageDiva's name to see the source of that quote, and then look at Admin's edit notes at the bottom of it . . .


"Oh what a tangled web we weave when once we practice to deceive" 

Click to expand...

Oooh awkward......


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## *hic* (22 April 2014)

Patterdale said:



			Oooh awkward......
		
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One of those occasions when you've got to admire Admin's sense of humour though.


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## Patterdale (22 April 2014)

jemima*askin said:



			One of those occasions when you've go to admire Admin's sense of humour though.
		
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That's just what I thought!


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## Zero00000 (22 April 2014)

Hmmm, If I were to open a new business, and I saw that someone had, a bad experience due to my company, details in black and white for all the world to see, my focus would be on ensuring my customer/client was contacted and what ever the problem was, rectified, and compensated, so that the next post on said thread is a happy one, explaining how the horrible experience had been turned around and all was sorted, not posting pointless posts and creating 'legal battles'.
Not everything runs smoothly, things do go wrong, the number one in any company should be to ensure that wrong is put right, If your not willing or able to take it on the chin and sort it, then you should be in any business at all!


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## Zero00000 (22 April 2014)

If people would just like to click on the symbol next to DressageDiva's name to see the source of that quote, and then look at Admin's edit notes at the bottom of it . . .


"Oh what a tangled web we weave when once we practice to deceive" [/QUOTE]


Ooooh....


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## glamourpuss (22 April 2014)

Gemstoneflyer13 I think your protests that you aren't a company that has been discussed on here have been shown to be lies so I would drop that pretence. 

Secondly I have seen HHO admin step in to prevent defaming of a company actually. There was a time when 2 very prolific posters who were anti air jackets got into hot water regarding claims made about the company Point 2 & their treatment of an event rider following an accident. 
Why did HHO step in? Because what was being posted was untrue & risked tarnishing the reputation of the company. (For the record I don't think these posters made up the stories but were relaying a story that was 'doing the rounds') this could've left individuals open to legal action. 
We've still been able to discuss Point 2 - we can give our opinion whether it be good or bad so it's not like the forum has been silenced!

I'm guessing that as the individual post was edited by HHO admin yet they felt the content was still safe enough to keep on the forum they aren't too bothered about your legal action.

I'm sorry you feel hard done by. TBH I hadn't even seen the previous thread about your company....but now I'm aware of it I wouldn't shop from you.

So if nothing else your want to discuss the legal action situation has lost you a potential customer. Well done


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## Zero00000 (22 April 2014)

jemima*askin said:



			One of those occasions when you've got to admire Admin's sense of humour though.
		
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Absolutely!!!


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## STRIKER (22 April 2014)

Having studied and worked in marketing many moons ago, one of the key points i will always remember is the open mouthed complainer whom the company should listen to to improve their product, customer relations, than the quiet one who just takes their business elsewhere. Maybe times have changed. I did like the old days.


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## TarrSteps (22 April 2014)

gemstoneflyer13 said:



			This has escalated quickly. I can confirm that my company is not that mentioned in any of the above posts however I have read their particular threads and they seem to be experiencing a similar problem. 

It is not that I believe in gagging public speech, however I do believe that the threads should not be allowed to turn into an argument as said previously eventually it gets personal and that should not be left to continue. 

The matter is just up for discussion to hear peoples opinions on the matter if the shoe was on the other foot how would you feel ?
		
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The forum has a process in place for such concerns - simply notify 'TFC' and request a review of the thread in question and removal if necessary. If you are saying you did this and your concerns were dismissed then perhaps you do have a case to take up with IPC, although i suspect they have a pretty good idea of how the law works in this area. This would seem even more reason to avoid dredging it up on here though!


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## PolarSkye (22 April 2014)

gemstoneflyer13 said:



			Im not entirely bothered what the opinions that were voiced on this thread were, just wanted to see what people thought.
		
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Erm . . . I'm confused.  You poked an ants nest with a stick just to get a reaction and now you're surprised by said reaction?  You asked a question, you got answers, but you're not "entirely bothered what the opinions . . . voiced on this thread" . . . ?

P


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## cptrayes (22 April 2014)

It is a recognised and well documented phenomenon that the most powerful advocate of any company is a customer who has received poor service which has been rapidly and generously corrected.

Complaints are therefore an opportunity to get the best feedback and the best publicity a company could wish for. You should be grateful, not complaining and threatening to sue.

Let me give you an example. Ten years ago I flew BA to Glasgow on business. I was sat next to a man so fat he took half my seat as well as his own.  On arrival at the airport I went to the BA desk to tell them that the man was a safety hazard who would have made it impossible for me to get out of that plane in a hurry. They listened, apologised, made a note, and when I got home that evening there was an enormous basket of flowers on my doorstep.

I flew BA  on that trip instead of other carriers for the rest of the job, and I've lost count of how many people I've told of that exceptional service when it was not even their fault that they did not know how gross the passenger was going to be.

THAT'S how you deal with complaints, not grousing about free speech  on a forum!


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## gemstoneflyer13 (22 April 2014)

I made a new account as I did not want what was said to reflect the thoughts of my company however was meant to reflect what peoples opinions on Horse and Hound allowing small business's names to get thrown in the dirt. 

I have asked for the forum about my company to be taken down on many occasions as I do not believe it is fair or just to have, for all i know a bunch of complete random people posting slander about my company.  It has happened to many other companies and Im sure they would love to see some sort of action being taken to stop this in its tracks. 

It was not the criticism I was bothered about on the thread, however was the amount of people who felt they need to contribute after what i thought was, professionally trying to solve the problem.


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## Jackster14 (22 April 2014)

gemstoneflyer13 said:



			This has escalated quickly. I can confirm that my company is not that mentioned in any of the above posts however I have read their particular threads and they seem to be experiencing a similar problem. 

It is not that I believe in gagging public speech, however I do believe that the threads should not be allowed to turn into an argument as said previously eventually it gets personal and that should not be left to continue. 


The matter is just up for discussion to hear peoples opinions on the matter if the shoe was on the other foot how would you feel ?
		
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strange?


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## Jackster14 (22 April 2014)

Jackster14 said:



			strange?[
		
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## cptrayes (22 April 2014)

gemstoneflyer13 said:



			I made a new account as I did not want what was said to reflect the thoughts of my company however was meant to reflect what peoples opinions on Horse and Hound allowing small business's names to get thrown in the dirt. 

I have asked for the forum about my company to be taken down on many occasions as I do not believe it is fair or just to have, for all i know a bunch of complete random people posting slander about my company.  It has happened to many other companies and Im sure they would love to see some sort of action being taken to stop this in its tracks. 

It was not the criticism I was bothered about on the thread, however was the amount of people who felt they need to contribute after what i thought was, professionally trying to solve the problem.
		
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But if you had solved the problem those people would have had nothing to say.


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## Buddy'sMum (22 April 2014)

gemstoneflyer13 said:



			I made a new account as I did not want what was said to reflect the thoughts of my company however was meant to reflect what peoples opinions on Horse and Hound allowing small business's names to get thrown in the dirt. 

I have asked for the forum about my company to be taken down on many occasions as I do not believe it is fair or just to have, for all i know a bunch of complete random people posting slander about my company.  It has happened to many other companies and Im sure they would love to see some sort of action being taken to stop this in its tracks. 

It was not the criticism I was bothered about on the thread, however was the amount of people who felt they need to contribute after what i thought was, professionally trying to solve the problem.
		
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You've just been outed as a liar on a public forum. Unfortunately that does not reflect well on you or your company.


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## Jackster14 (22 April 2014)

gemstoneflyer13 said:



			I made a new account as I did not want what was said to reflect the thoughts of my company however was meant to reflect what peoples opinions on Horse and Hound allowing small business's names to get thrown in the dirt. 

I have asked for the forum about my company to be taken down on many occasions as I do not believe it is fair or just to have, for all i know a bunch of complete random people posting slander about my company.  It has happened to many other companies and Im sure they would love to see some sort of action being taken to stop this in its tracks. 

It was not the criticism I was bothered about on the thread, however was the amount of people who felt they need to contribute after what i thought was, professionally trying to solve the problem.
		
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this was the one I meant to quote!


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## PolarSkye (22 April 2014)

_GG_ said:



			All companies make mistakes and get the occasional bad review. It is a drop in the ocean and a good company will resolve any disputes and save their reputation swiftly. 

We enjoy freedom of speech. That does not mean we are allowed to lie and that is clearly what you are getting at with your current action. Unfortunately, that brings with it what can be some very unpleasant proceedings unless you and your company are absolutely above reproach. 

In order for you to prove that the words printed within the pages of theses forums are lies, you have to allow full access to all communications in and out of your company. That means that everything will be reviewed. You can't simply delete the ones you think might get you in trouble and only leave the ones where you have behaved impeccably. They will know. Every part of your business will be picked apart by the opposing legal team. They will also contact everyone they can find who has written a bad review or posted negative comments about your company anywhere and they will either gather evidence in support of their clients or, if you're unlucky, they may begin to gather additional clients and start a counter suit action against your company. 

All of this will be in the public domain. Anyone will be able to walk into the court, if it got that far and follow the proceedings. That includes the media, so you need to think long and hard about how perfect your conduct has been in every communication, how fantastic your products have been, how wonderful your customer service has been and how diligently you have refunded any monies owed, dispatched items and dealt with genuine complaints. 

Let me also say...the law does not like to be used. It is a tool that is available to those who have been wronged. It is not a tool for people to use when they are angry and wish to seek some sort of vengeance, especially not a company seeking to claim against individuals. 

It's a very slippery slope when you decide to take this path. Your legal advisors will of course tell you that you have a strong case and you are more than likely going to come away the victor. They are always going to say this, for many reasons...the most common being that their clients don't usually tell them the whole truth, I know, the hypocracy!

By all means, if you feel you have a strong case and you have never failed in any way to provide excellent customer service, go ahead with the action. 

Just remember...when you have opened a door like this, you can never close it behind you.
		
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Wonderful sense spoken by _GG_ as usual . . . particularly the last sentence.

P


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## gemstoneflyer13 (22 April 2014)

I have not lied ... I never mentioned my company name or my own name, I don't see that as a problem. Many people who post on this forum don't mention their names...


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## gembear (22 April 2014)

I can't see how you would have a leg to stand on to be honest. 

I've not read all of the previous thread, but from what I did read it seems like more than one person is commenting on receiving a bad service. It's obvious that you have a lot to learn regarding running a business. Instead of throwing your toys out of the pram, think about how you can improve your business going forward by taking the comments on board. 

Lesson 1 seems to be learning how to respond to your customers efficiently. That would be one good way in not pissing people off.

If you give people a s*** service, then expect bad reviews on your business.


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## PolarSkye (22 April 2014)

Zero00000 said:



			If people would just like to click on the symbol next to DressageDiva's name to see the source of that quote, and then look at Admin's edit notes at the bottom of it . . .


"Oh what a tangled web we weave when once we practice to deceive" 


Ooooh.... 

Click to expand...

Oh jolly well done Admin .  OP, I very much doubt HHO Admin would take such steps if the complaints levelled were insufficient or insubstantial enough to land them in legal hot water.

P


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## *hic* (22 April 2014)

gemstoneflyer13 said:



			I have not lied ... I never mentioned my company name or my own name, I don't see that as a problem. Many people who post on this forum don't mention their names...
		
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You said that you could confirm that your company was not one of those referred to in this thread. That, my dear, was not the truth!


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## Zero00000 (22 April 2014)

gemstoneflyer13 said:



			I have not lied ... I never mentioned my company name or my own name, I don't see that as a problem. Many people who post on this forum don't mention their names...
		
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Most people on this forum are not threatening legal action, especially not when it is a possible failing within their own company...


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## Elsiecat (22 April 2014)

Oooooh this thread just got interesting! Yet again bespoke equestrian have made themselves out to be liars. I'd have tried to give them the benefit of the doubt but as far as any potential business from me is concerned - I wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them now. So sue me.


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## Tiddlypom (22 April 2014)

cptrayes said:



			It is a recognised and well documented phenomenon that the most powerful advocate of any company is a customer who has received poor service which has been rapidly and generously corrected.

Complaints are therefore an opportunity to get the best feedback and the best publicity a company could wish for. You should be grateful, not complaining and threatening to sue.
		
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Agreed.

I had four arena mirrors installed by a major company. I told the installation company that they needed to be very wind proof, as we are in an exposed area. I was assured that their products were trialled in much more exposed areas than us, and that all would be well.

Unfortunately, the mirrors kept being blown out of alignment and one eventually cracked.

I was highly unimpressed and rang to complain. The company sent their installation team out on the next available slot and replaced the cracked mirror and reinforced the bracing structure, all FOC. I was told that they had revised their installation procedures and were re visiting past clients to upgrade the bracing, all FOC.

I went from being a disgruntled customer to being a very satisfied one, who will gladly recommend that company to others.

All companies get complaints. It's how you deal with them that counts.


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## WelshD (22 April 2014)

All you have done is draw people's attention to a situation that was on a thread that had dropped way down the pages and was not currently being debated

I can see that the delivery times on your website have changed and you have reworded things - why not say this? it would be more positive than legal threats if you are wanting to bring your business back in to the public eye - the wording is 100% better than it used to be 

Had you posted on there to say that you had kept the promises laid out on your website and had contacted every customer waiting for an order, given them an eta and asked if they wanted to continue to wait or have a refund we would all be applauding you right now for trying to turn things around.


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## dogatemysalad (22 April 2014)

This is a car crash thread. Fascinating but makes you want to cover your eyes. 
OP, do you wish you'd never posted in the small dark hours this morning ? Your attitude has put me right off from ever ordering from your company.


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## Buddy'sMum (22 April 2014)

gemstoneflyer13 said:



			I have not lied ...
		
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As you appear to have forgotten what you wrote in post #55 above:

"This has escalated quickly. I can confirm that my company is not that mentioned in any of the above posts however I have read their particular threads and they seem to be experiencing a similar problem."


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## Goldenstar (22 April 2014)

gemstoneflyer13 said:



			Im not entirely bothered what the opinions that were voiced on this thread were, just wanted to see what people thought.
		
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People posting on here are potential customers not being bothered by our opinions is not a great idea


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## WelshD (22 April 2014)

Goldenstar said:



			People posting on here are potential customers not being bothered by our opinions is not a great idea
		
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Some other great posts on here but this one is so spot on


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## gemstoneflyer13 (22 April 2014)

WelshD said:



			All you have done is draw people's attention to a situation that was on a thread that had dropped way down the pages and was not currently being debated

I can see that the delivery times on your website have changed and you have reworded things - why not say this? it would be more positive than legal threats if you are wanting to bring your business back in to the public eye - the wording is 100% better than it used to be 

Had you posted on there to say that you had kept the promises laid out on your website and had contacted every customer waiting for an order, given them an eta and asked if they wanted to continue to wait or have a refund we would all be applauding you right now for trying to turn things around.
		
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I have explained on the other thread countless times that it would be sorted, all customer complaints were dealt with etc, but it was never good enough and I always got a backlash off it for trying to sort it out. Unfortunately Im not the type of person to sit back and watch as my company is being dragged through the mud. 

I have started legal proceedings with my lawyer who is advising me on the case, however I did not want it to have to get to that position, I have openly talked about every aspect of my business and laid it out for all to see, it does get to the point where you are pouring you heart out and people keep continually stabbing at you. 

In reply to the person who said that I do not care about the opinions of customers... I never said that. 

I also said that i could confirm that I was not one of the companies mentioned above because it was true, everyone was going on about horse pi's, which is not my company.


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## glamourpuss (22 April 2014)

I once bought a girth from an eBay store. After a week it hadn't arrived. I emailed them. They apologised, they had overlooked my order...it would go straight out.
Another week passed still no girth. I was starting to get angry. I emailed them again. Another apology. It hadn't gone out straight away but it was on its way. 
Nearly 3 weeks after ordering it the girth showed up. 
Inside with the girth was a packet of polos & a handwritten note saying
'We are so sorry, no excuses our service was substandard. I hope you can forgive us & we will do everything to ensure it doesn't happen again' 

Sometimes it isn't about 'grand gestures' just a heartfelt apology.
And yes, I have used that eBay seller again


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## Elsiecat (22 April 2014)

If you're trying to 'turn a corner' with your business then why do you want negative reviews hushed? Surely you'd want to know about your companies short comings so you can address it? Nothing with you comes with an ounce of transparency. 
This thread will be rather damaging to your 'legal proceedings'. 

Car crash. Shut up shop and give up. You time and time again make a fool out of yourself by lying.


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## WelshD (22 April 2014)

gemstoneflyer13 said:



			I have explained on the other thread countless times that it would be sorted,.
		
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But it didn't seem to BE sorted. People were still posting to say that they were getting no joy ages after the original post appeared

Like I said had you posted to say that every outstanding issue had been dealt with things would have been very different


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## gemstoneflyer13 (22 April 2014)

The way this is coming across is that I never apologise to any customers, refunds never appear, emails are never answered, all messages are ignored. 


That is certainly not the case, however that is the way that I am being portrayed through this forum and the previous one and no that is not fair. I always apologise to people that have had a delay etc. and have taken many steps to improve the service that my customers receive. 

I have publicly posted on Facebook with new delivery times for all products, and am in the process as we speak of changing all product status's to reflect the individual brands delivery times. 

I have also offered customers a guaranteed 25% back if their products are not with them in the specified delivery time, or if they do not want to wait then they can have a full refund, this is publicly displayed on our Facebook and on the website. 

This thread was not started to discuss my company that is why I did not mention it. It was started to discuss what peoples opinions are of publicly slating companies and if they believe it is right that horse and hound should condone this action.


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## Nugget La Poneh (22 April 2014)

dogatemysalad said:



			This is a car crash thread. Fascinating but makes you want to cover your eyes. 
OP, do you wish you'd never posted in the small dark hours this morning ? Your attitude has put me right off from ever ordering from your company.
		
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On the plus side for the OP, *IF* the OP is who it looks to be, and they are studying for their LLB as it is suggested on a well known tool of social media, then this whole debacle will at least bolster their knowledge and experience in defamation/slander/libel and how not to deal with it. And maybe reiterate how powerful the internet can be.


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## Tiddlypom (22 April 2014)

gemstoneflyer13 said:



			I have started legal proceedings with my lawyer who is advising me on the case, however I did not want it to have to get to that position
		
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It didn't have to get to that position.

I didn't really follow the other thread about your company, but I sure am aware of it now.

Just stop all of this silliness now, or repent at leisure later.


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## glamourpuss (22 April 2014)

Gemstone13 like I said I hadn't even seen your previous thread it was YOUR ACTIONS that made me aware of it. 
Stop  'pouring your heart out', stop explaining how you are putting things right, Stop talking about legal action.
Put your head down, keep quiet & PROVE you are putting things right. Actions speak louder than words.
If you are then delivering the items in the correct timeframe with a professional service, you will find that forum posts about your company will become much more positive (an example of this has been some recent Derby House threads where posters have noticed an upturn in their service & posted about it  ) 
Stop all the 'woe is me' about your heart being stabbed...business is tough, deal with it.


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## Elsiecat (22 April 2014)

But if people can't "publicly slate companies" then how do we warn others against the companies to avoid? If you ran your company properly then this would be a non existent issue. I don't understand your problem unless your intention is to continue providing a shoddy service and continue taking orders without people able to warn others off losing money.


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## RunToEarth (22 April 2014)

Never mind HHO/dissatisfied customers - you are managing to dredge up your own defamatory and libel case all by yourself. 

OP - thank you for posting this thread - I was previously unaware of Bespoke Equestrian and the abhorrent level of service they provide. 

Since reading both this thread, and the one with JA linked to, it appears that you completely incapable of running a business successfully, managing customer expectations, engaging in reasoned debate or being truthful - it will be another "company" I will be avoiding.


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## Nugget La Poneh (22 April 2014)

glamourpuss said:



			Gemstone13 like I said I hadn't even seen your previous thread it was YOUR ACTIONS that made me aware of it. 
Stop  'pouring your heart out', stop explaining how you are putting things right, Stop talking about legal action.
Put your head down, keep quiet & PROVE you are putting things right. Actions speak louder than words.
If you are then delivering the items in the correct timeframe with a professional service, you will find that forum posts about your company will become much more positive (an example of this has been some recent Derby House threads where posters have noticed an upturn in their service & posted about it  ) 
Stop all the 'woe is me' about your heart being stabbed...business is tough, deal with it.
		
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Seconded.


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## Goldenstar (22 April 2014)

I am not interested in a retailer pouring their heart out ,I what the goods I have ordered in a timely fashion or my money back pronto .
I don't deal again with those that don't shape up .


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## gembear (22 April 2014)

gemstoneflyer13 said:



			I have started legal proceedings with my lawyer who is advising me on the case, however I did not want it to have to get to that position, I have openly talked about every aspect of my business and laid it out for all to see, it does get to the point where you are pouring you heart out and people keep continually stabbing at you.
		
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Your lawyer is probably rubbing his hands together with a big smile on his face.

I think you'll be the one that loses out here OP.
Just let it go, like you should have done before and like everyone else did on the forum.

Take what was said on board and use it to improve your business model. No start up would ever last if at the first sign of trouble, it blames the customers for it's own faults.

Listen - learn - improve - move on.


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## Goldenstar (22 April 2014)

Happy lawyer somewhere planning a extension or a new car .


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## dogatemysalad (22 April 2014)

gemstoneflyer13 said:



			This thread was not started to discuss my company that is why I did not mention it. It was started to discuss what peoples opinions are of publicly slating companies and if they believe it is right that horse and hound should condone this action.
		
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So you started this thread to besmirch Horse and Hound ? 
You've said that you aren't interested in other people's opinions so what is the point of this thread other than to accuse HH of not gagging those with bad experiences of your company.


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## PolarSkye (22 April 2014)

gemstoneflyer13 said:



			I have not lied ... I never mentioned my company name or my own name, I don't see that as a problem. Many people who post on this forum don't mention their names...
		
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Just because you (and I mean the general you, not you personally) post on a public forum under a pseudonym, doesn't mean you are not identifiable . . . and, given that, you should be very careful what you "say" online.  

You chose to start a thread which, given your history, can be viewed as (at best) naive and (at worst) provocative and now you are aggrieved by the reaction?

Your best course of action right now would be to stay off all internet fora and focus on fulfilling customer orders.  

P


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## dogatemysalad (22 April 2014)

Goldenstar said:



			Happy lawyer somewhere planning a extension or a new car .
		
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LOL ! Yes. He could give business advice to the OP instead but perhaps there isn't much money in that.


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## cobgoblin (22 April 2014)

So, are you trying to sue Horse and Hound OP?


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## *hic* (22 April 2014)

OP, there are questions on your FB page from 16 April regarding delivery times and whereabouts of ordered items. Might I suggest you nip off and sort them out?


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## Elsiecat (22 April 2014)

I wonder if horseandhound see this thread as slanderous towards themselves? People in glass houses..


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## PolarSkye (22 April 2014)

gemstoneflyer13 said:



			I have explained on the other thread countless times that it would be sorted, all customer complaints were dealt with etc, but it was never good enough and I always got a backlash off it for trying to sort it out. Unfortunately Im not the type of person to sit back and watch as my company is being dragged through the mud. 

I have started legal proceedings with my lawyer who is advising me on the case, however I did not want it to have to get to that position, I have openly talked about every aspect of my business and laid it out for all to see, it does get to the point where you are pouring you heart out and people keep continually stabbing at you.
		
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I do understand how frustrating it must be if you are trying to turn your reputation around, are now fulfilling customers' orders, etc. to still see negative comments . . . but you must understand that just as good reputations take time to establish, so negative ones take double that to turn around.

Honestly, actions speak far louder than words . . . instead of starting threads on internet fora, SHOW people (by your actions) that you care about customers by making darned sure that you fulfil their orders promptly and completely - that (and only that) will see your reputation improve and your business thrive.

P


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## Amymay (22 April 2014)

gemstoneflyer13 said:



			I have started legal proceedings with my lawyer who is advising me on the case...
		
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Poorly by the looks of things.


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## dunkley (22 April 2014)

Far, far too literate to be anything to do with jimjams, but, Oh My Goodness!, the customer service department could be run by the same staff   Maybe they went on the same, "How NOT to do it" course?


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## Goldenstar (22 April 2014)

Elsiecat said:



			I wonder if horseandhound see this thread as slanderous towards themselves? People in glass houses..
		
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The Horse and hound forum is a big lively forum with lots of horsey customers that people can advertise to.
I am pretty sure HHO can take a few nasty comments .
The resource that HHO is guarding here is us , lots of people that advertisers can reach through the ads on the forum .


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## Marydoll (22 April 2014)

Can i just sing the praises of Hope Valley Saddlery here, bridle ordered, delivered within 24hrs, rug ordered, delivered in 48hrs, bloomin amazing service, i wouldnt look anywhere else if theyve got what i want, excellent sevice


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## Equi (22 April 2014)

To be quite honest, the way to loose every customer you have and any future customer is to publicly announce you are suing ex-customers because they were not happy with your service and made this known. Noone wants to bother with that kind of thing. There are many other companies that do the same thing and don't fling "legal action" in your face. 

Just to point out, i still don't even know what company this is. But i tend to buy in person now, save the bother.


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## Queenbee (22 April 2014)

Interestingly, op has chosen a name that has really hints to a stud in Cornwall as gemstone high flyer is one of their stallions.  It's been very clear to me  from the start that this isn't to do with that business because there have been no threads on here relating to them, and I suspected one of two particular companies who had been very public on the forum with their defence of their companies atrocious service.  

However, op, if it were me, I would personally have chosen a username that wasn't so very closely linked with someone else's business.  If I owned the stud and the stallion and saw this thread, I would be a little bit ticked off that some people many recognise the name as similar to the stallion and may go away with the wrong impression, by assuming it's someone associated with the stud writing the thread.


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## Elsiecat (22 April 2014)

Pardon, Goldenstar? I have no doubt that HHO don't give a flying ant about this thread. What my point was is that OP is busy labelling people slanderous for having bad opinions of her business. My point was that publicly she wanted people to condemn HHO for allowing bad reviews of her company. My point was that surely, if her logic is anything to go by, then condemning HHO for allowing freedom of speech is equally 'slanderous' towards HHO.


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## _GG_ (22 April 2014)

gemstoneflyer13 said:



			I have explained on the other thread countless times that it would be sorted, all customer complaints were dealt with etc, but it was never good enough and I always got a backlash off it for trying to sort it out. Unfortunately Im not the type of person to sit back and watch as my company is being dragged through the mud. 

I have started legal proceedings with my lawyer who is advising me on the case, however I did not want it to have to get to that position, I have openly talked about every aspect of my business and laid it out for all to see, it does get to the point where you are pouring you heart out and people keep continually stabbing at you. 

In reply to the person who said that I do not care about the opinions of customers... I never said that. 

I also said that i could confirm that I was not one of the companies mentioned above because it was true, everyone was going on about horse pi's, which is not my company.
		
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If you want to be successful in business, you need to learn how to separate yourself from your company. You may well want to stand up for your business and shout from the rooftops that its name is being dragged through the mud. That however is not in the best interest of the business. 

Here's a simple example of what you should post on a public forum after seeing a thread in which there are numerous complaints. 

" Company Name has reviewed all of the comments made on this forum and through our other social media channels. All genuine complaints and issues have now been fully resolved and all of those customers have confirmed their renewed satisfaction in our products/customer service. Company Name will always be happy to receive any customer reviews, good or bad, that will enable us to improve our products and services as it is our mission to supply an exceptional product and offer the highest standards of customer care. Should anyone have any further issues with either our products or service, please don't hesitate to contact me directly at xxx@yyy.com and I will personally ensure your issue is dealt with professionally and swiftly. Our customers are our most valuable asset and I thank you all for your continued assistance in helping me take this company forward. Signed, the company owner."

That took me no time and no thought...a little effort and it could be made 10x better. 

The point is, when you see bad reviews online, you can choose to engage in an online battle that does nothing other than create more attention on the negative reviews of your company OR...you can say nothing publicly, but privately work your ass off to resolve the complaints in a swift and polite manner, not until you think you have done enough, but until the customers are happy that you have done enough. ONLY THEN, should you post publicly on behalf of your company with the positive message that ALL complaints are resolved, all customers are happy and that you will gladly welcome any further reviews, good or bad. 

The quote below is from my own website under the feedback section. Customer service is everything. Complaints are not personal...they are how we learn to improve and grow. 

"If there's anything you think we can improve upon or add to our business; or if you think we need to work on anything to make it better or easier for you, our customers, please do let us know. We are dedicated to doing everything we can to make The Pit BBQ an experience you'll never forget, but if we need to improve on anything, we won't know unless you tell us, so we really do mean it when we say don't hold back. Good or bad, we'll just be grateful for your comments and suggestions and will continue to do our very best to keep improving."

Finally and very seriously, if you are working with a solicitor you need to stop posting about this publicly.


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## gemstoneflyer13 (22 April 2014)

equi said:



			To be quite honest, the way to loose every customer you have and any future customer is to publicly announce you are suing ex-customers because they were not happy with your service and made this known. 

Im not suing ex customers ... just thought i would point that out 

Click to expand...


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## Nancykitt (22 April 2014)

Lawyers should be warning about the potential cost and stress of litigation. The cost is absolutely enormous and many people just don't break even. Then there's the stress...once people start talking 'court', it completely overwhelms every aspect of day-to-day life. 
Even winning a defamation case - which is unlikely as it's so difficult to get strong enough evidence together - would not necessarily benefit the business long term. People use a company because they want good customer service and value for money, not because the company won a court case. There are better strategies for winning customers.


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## PolarSkye (22 April 2014)

_GG_ said:



			Finally and very seriously, if you are working with a solicitor you need to stop posting about this publicly.
		
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This.

P


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## Goldenstar (22 April 2014)

So are you trying to sue H and H come on , don't be shy .


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## *hic* (22 April 2014)

gemstoneflyer13 said:





equi said:



			To be quite honest, the way to loose every customer you have and any future customer is to publicly announce you are suing ex-customers because they were not happy with your service and made this known. 

Im not suing ex customers ... just thought i would point that out 

Click to expand...

No, just any fora that allow their customers to comment on the quality of your service. As previously noted, on your own page you edit (remove!) any adverse comment (when you notice it that is!).
		
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## Equi (22 April 2014)

The words "legal action" are still quite threatening, no matter what you are doing.


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## cobgoblin (22 April 2014)

gemstoneflyer13 said:





equi said:



			To be quite honest, the way to loose every customer you have and any future customer is to publicly announce you are suing ex-customers because they were not happy with your service and made this known. 

Im not suing ex customers ... just thought i would point that out 

Click to expand...

So, are you trying to sue Horse and Hound? I hope you have deep pockets if that's the case.
		
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## WelshD (22 April 2014)

jemima*askin said:



			OP, there are questions on your FB page   from 16 April regarding delivery times and whereabouts of ordered items. Might I suggest you nip off and sort them out?
		
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This. Absolutely this. 

I have now had a pm from the OP asking for my grievance against them to be detailed within 48 hours. 

I will be replying to say that i am not a customer as they well know and that i do not plan to be 

I hope no one else has had a message, would be very poor show to send demanding messages out to everyone who dares to comment! You dont have to be a customer of a company to have an opinion on things reported by its customers and this thread did invite opinions.


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## Queenbee (22 April 2014)

All you have really succeeded in doing op is further destroying the reputation of your own company by posting this thread.  Initially, when the other thread was opened, you came across quite well in your first couple of posts.  You apologised, said you were working on improving things etc.  what you should have done was go away and improve on things, if you had your reputation would have actually improved, people would know that you were taking on board their worries, fixing issues, focusing on quality of service etc.  instead you simply continued to argue the toss on that thread then once it was dead and burried you then decide to rebrand yourself with a different username that could be easily linked to a totally unrelated business and start this thread, showing that you are not interested in improving your own companies flaws, but on trying to gripe at HHO for being a forum that allowed the public to learn about them.


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## Fun Times (22 April 2014)

Seriously OP, I am a horse owner, internet shopper and generally normal person. Iam also a lawyer but as you have your own legal advisor I say this in my capacity as the first three only. Stop this now. Did you ever keep a diary or write something as a kid and then cringe when you re-read it a few years later? I suspect in a few years time you will feel the same about your posts on here.  I suspect the lawyer advising you is a mate or lecturer doing it for free.  If not, I hope you have engaged them on a fixed fee arrangement as unwinding and dealing with this thread alone will probably take them half a day.


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## Goldenstar (22 April 2014)

WelshD said:



			This. Absolutely this. 

I have now had a pm from the OP asking for my grievance against them to be detailed within 48 hours. 

I will be replying to say that i am not a customer as they well know and that i do not plan to be 

I hope no one else has had a message, would be very poor show to send demanding messages out to everyone who dares to comment! You dont have to be a customer of a company to have an opinion on things reported by its customers and this thread did invite opinions.
		
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I think that's vaguely threatening in the context of this thread I would consider reporting them to admin .


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## Ladyinred (22 April 2014)

<<groans>>

Can't believe this has reared its (pj clad) head again. We all have a darn good idea who it is and the same answer will suffice... OP get off the internet with your stupid threats and work to put your company right. Time spent here would be far better spent fulfilling missing orders or refunding grieved customers.


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## lula (22 April 2014)

Marydoll said:



			Can i just sing the praises of Hope Valley Saddlery here, bridle ordered, delivered within 24hrs, rug ordered, delivered in 48hrs, bloomin amazing service, i wouldnt look anywhere else if theyve got what i want, excellent sevice
		
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im another who praise Hope Valley saddlery's service highly and am a repeat customer because i feel valued and receive great customer service and goods arrive with impressive speed.

Customers have more power now through social media and the internet in general. Companies who treat their customers well gain many new customers through good reviews, companies who dont, lose customers through bad reviews. You happen to be in the latter category OP through your own actions.

suck it up.


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## *hic* (22 April 2014)

Ladyinred said:



			<<groans>>

Can't believe this has reared its (pj clad) head again. We all have a darn good idea who it is and the same answer will suffice... OP get off the internet with your stupid threats and work to put your company right. Time spent here would be far better spent fulfilling missing orders or refunding grieved customers.
		
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Nope not Shwmae this time, another company who have recently had comment on their poor delivery and customer service.


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## LaMooch (22 April 2014)

to me this thread reads that the company owner aka OP has dug a very big hole for themselves and don't seem to be stopping. 

At first I thought it was another company that employ same customer services that have been mentioned numerous times on this thread but spelling is too good to be them


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## Elsiecat (22 April 2014)

Hope Valley really are fantastic. I left my leather gloves in store whilst trying on a hat. They had posted them to my house for me within 24 hours


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## hairycob (22 April 2014)

OP - stop digging. The centre of the earth is very hot!


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## Elsiecat (22 April 2014)

Very sorry - I just realised that Bespoke Equestrian and SHWMAE are different companies. It was Shwmae using the word 'bespoke' to describe their products that confused me. Baby brain really is alive and kicking for me!  However, my sentiments still remain.


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## Maiko (22 April 2014)

I have to say I am finding this whole thread hilarious!!!!!

Also, I had absolutely no idea of the existence of Bespoke Equestrian, but now I do, I will be steering well clear for fear of being threatened with anything the OP doesn't quite like the look/sound of. 

Thanks OP, this has really given me a chuckle today.


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## Spring Feather (22 April 2014)

I've just read the thread now about your company OP and from what I read I honestly don't think you have a leg to stand on were you to take this to court.  Posters were all very concise about the dates they ordered goods from you, communication dates and dates that the orders either did finally arrive, or the date you refunded them.  There is nothing libellous in stating facts.  You would have been best not getting involved in the thread and let it die its own merry death, but instead you continued to fuel it.  A professional company would have kept schtum and quietly gone about improving their business and customer service.  Buyers are generally very forgiving when a wrong is righted and it's THAT which gains companies (even ones with dodgy starts) a good reputation in the end.


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## MerrySherryRider (22 April 2014)

WelshD said:



			This. Absolutely this. 

I have now had a pm from the OP asking for my grievance against them to be detailed within 48 hours. 

I will be replying to say that i am not a customer as they well know and that i do not plan to be 

I hope no one else has had a message, would be very poor show to send demanding messages out to everyone who dares to comment! You dont have to be a customer of a company to have an opinion on things reported by its customers and this thread did invite opinions.
		
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Wouldn't bother replying, TBH. You'd be rewarding bullying behaviour. 

This thread is a classic in showing how not to run a company.


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## catwithclaws (22 April 2014)

_GG_ said:



			All companies make mistakes and get the occasional bad review. It is a drop in the ocean and a good company will resolve any disputes and save their reputation swiftly. 

We enjoy freedom of speech. That does not mean we are allowed to lie and that is clearly what you are getting at with your current action. Unfortunately, that brings with it what can be some very unpleasant proceedings unless you and your company are absolutely above reproach. 

In order for you to prove that the words printed within the pages of theses forums are lies, you have to allow full access to all communications in and out of your company. That means that everything will be reviewed. You can't simply delete the ones you think might get you in trouble and only leave the ones where you have behaved impeccably. They will know. Every part of your business will be picked apart by the opposing legal team. They will also contact everyone they can find who has written a bad review or posted negative comments about your company anywhere and they will either gather evidence in support of their clients or, if you're unlucky, they may begin to gather additional clients and start a counter suit action against your company. 

All of this will be in the public domain. Anyone will be able to walk into the court, if it got that far and follow the proceedings. That includes the media, so you need to think long and hard about how perfect your conduct has been in every communication, how fantastic your products have been, how wonderful your customer service has been and how diligently you have refunded any monies owed, dispatched items and dealt with genuine complaints. 

Let me also say...the law does not like to be used. It is a tool that is available to those who have been wronged. It is not a tool for people to use when they are angry and wish to seek some sort of vengeance, especially not a company seeking to claim against individuals. 

It's a very slippery slope when you decide to take this path. Your legal advisors will of course tell you that you have a strong case and you are more than likely going to come away the victor. They are always going to say this, for many reasons...the most common being that their clients don't usually tell them the whole truth, I know, the hypocracy!

By all means, if you feel you have a strong case and you have never failed in any way to provide excellent customer service, go ahead with the action. 

Just remember...when you have opened a door like this, you can never close it behind you.
		
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Bloody well said GG


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## Queenbee (22 April 2014)

gemstoneflyer13 said:



			I made a new account as I did not want what was said to reflect the thoughts of my company however was meant to reflect what peoples opinions on Horse and Hound allowing small business's names to get thrown in the dirt. 

I have asked for the forum about my company to be taken down on many occasions as I do not believe it is fair or just to have, for all i know a bunch of complete random people posting slander about my company.  It has happened to many other companies and Im sure they would love to see some sort of action being taken to stop this in its tracks. 

It was not the criticism I was bothered about on the thread, however was the amount of people who felt they need to contribute after what i thought was, professionally trying to solve the problem.
		
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I'm sorry op, but this absolutely takes the biscuit!  Seriously, you didn't want it to come back to your company, and it was meant to show HHO in a bad light for allowing small business names to be thrown in the dirt so you use a name that can be directly linked to another persons business?!  You yourself could be negatively affecting the very good name of their business!!!


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## MargotC (22 April 2014)

I will leave it to the experts to comment on the legal aspects of this, but a lot of wise words have been said in the replies and I would caution the OP to heed them.

However, from the POV of someone who worked in customer service for a large company for years - I am shocked at the approach and attitude a lot of these new, smaller companies seem to have when it comes to running a business. A successful company always, always begins and ends with a satisfied customer. Without customers you would have no company at all! "The customer is always right" was the mantra we were taught to have in mind when dealing with any customer - satisfied or not - and our personal opinion on each case didn't matter one jot: When you deal with customers you represent the company and the product and to that end your own personal feelings have no place in the situation, however hurt you might be or however much you might disagree with the complaint.

In my experience VERY FEW customers complain for a reason that is not legitimate. In fact why would anyone spend time and money complaining if their expectations were being met? Furthermore if a customer is unsatisfied, the reason does not matter so much as the fact they are unsatisfied! Therefore: No matter how big or small the complaint is you listen to what they have to say and you offer to find a solution. You do not shut the customer's voice out. The customer's opinion is what matters. And that is IMHO the only honest way to run any size business. You might end up with a few minor losses to make an unsatisfied customer happy, but boy does it pay off to handle those complaints right in the long run.

It only takes once to alienate a customer that could have been a return customer for years had you listened to their complaint. I am only saying.


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## sunleychops (22 April 2014)

Straws and clutching!

You seem no better from your attitude and way you have handled this than those tossers over at Shwmae!


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## Nugget La Poneh (22 April 2014)

chrisritch said:



			Straws and clutching!

You seem no better from your attitude and way you have handled this than those tossers over at Shwmae!
		
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Bit extreme!


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## sunleychops (22 April 2014)

Nugget La Poneh said:



			Bit extreme!
		
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Meh, HHO doesnt ***** out tossers so it can't be that extreme a word


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## LaMooch (22 April 2014)

Maiko said:



			I have to say I am finding this whole thread hilarious!!!!!

Also, I had absolutely no idea of the existence of Bespoke Equestrian, but now I do, I will be steering well clear for fear of being threatened with anything the OP doesn't quite like the look/sound of. 

Thanks OP, this has really given me a chuckle today.
		
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Agree completely will not be touching this company with a barge pole.

OP you just making things look worse for yourself and your company


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## LaMooch (22 April 2014)

chrisritch said:



			straws and clutching!

You seem no better from your attitude and way you have handled this than those tossers over at shwmae!
		
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pmsl


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## Toby_Zaphod (22 April 2014)

I haven't read all of this thread but as others have said if someone has posted the truth, not embelished, just plain fact then there is little that the company they have posted about can do legally. 

There again if someone has posted lies & this can be proved then that person can be prosecuted, sued etc. 

The main issue is cost, taking someone to court for defamation etc is extremely costly. This is why the majority of cases involve rich filmstars etc as they are the only people who can afford the costs of such action. 

Additonally any solicitor will tell you that never sue on a point of principal because it will cost a fortune & there will be no return. Only sue if you can afford the cost & the person you take action against has got something of value to sue for. 

Just taken another look at this thread & realised it's another company run by a young person who believes that because they are young & they are at college & they can't afford to hold stock that they are not bound by company law, distance selling regulations etc. Also that no one should be unhappy with the service offered because 'They are trying their best'

At any level if you are running a company run it professionally & within the law & you will have no problems. Deal with customer complaints promptly, efficiently & ideally deal with the orders correctly in the first place so that you don't get many complaints. The customers come first & as has been said befotre without customers you don't have a business so you must have great customer service & deal with people curteously & promptly.

No one wants a business to go down the tubes but if the business isn't run right then that's the only way it will go. I wish the company well.


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## *hic* (22 April 2014)

chrisritch said:



			Straws and clutching!

You seem no better from your attitude and way you have handled this than those tossers over at Shwmae!
		
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Oooooh ooooh oooh my sides hurt


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## *hic* (22 April 2014)

Meanwhile, back over on OP's FB page where she is apparently responding promptly to all queries, people are still waiting for replies to such basics as "Where are my goods?" dating back to 16 April . . .


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## MargotC (22 April 2014)

As an add-on to initial comment - you have chosen to provide a service and quite frankly you either fully commit to providing that service in a satisfactory manner or you quit. It is not the customers' job to satisfy you with good feedback; you have to earn that satisfaction yourself by providing what you advertise. It is a cycle and depending on how you feed it it will either be good or bad for everyone involved. If it is bad it can be turned around but that change has to begin with you and it will take time. It all comes down to commitment.


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## Equi (22 April 2014)

End of the day you can't force people to accept shoddy work/service by throwing legal action about. People will just avoid you if you have been proven to go to the extremes. I avidly avoid a certain company because of the threat of legal action on me, twice, for no reason.


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## Azabache (22 April 2014)

This post is quite extraordinary. I have just returned from a market research clinic in the States and many potential customers were quoting problems that happened over a decade ago and have long since been resolved, as a reason not to buy from a particular company. Customer satisfaction and reputation are critical, and it can take a lifetime to recover from bad publicity. I mean no negativity to the OP as I have no reason to, I am truly confused however by what was the OP hoping to gain from this post as it has only served to further harm their reputation.


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## quirky (22 April 2014)

Haven't read thread, will when home.

Has anybody else received a rather passive aggressive pm from the op?

I posted a generic 'wouldn't buy off a company with no contact details' on the original thread.
This has been interpreted as having a grievance against them.

Are they clutching at straws, or what?


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## Queenbee (22 April 2014)

Welsh d received a pm too


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## Amymay (22 April 2014)

I feel left out


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## WelshD (22 April 2014)

quirky said:



			Haven't read thread, will when home.

Has anybody else received a rather passive aggressive pm from the op?

I posted a generic 'wouldn't buy off a company with no contact details' on the original thread.
This has been interpreted as having a grievance against them.

Are they clutching at straws, or what?
		
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Yes I did, not the best worded pm and it rather got my back up. I responded and received a reply to say that they (I guess after legal advice) were trying to establish who on the original thread was a customer. I suppose that is fair enough and I have no problems with that.


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## fburton (22 April 2014)

What _is_ their problem?? :frown3:


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## Serephin (22 April 2014)

Its the arrogance of youth IMO.


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## amandap (22 April 2014)

fburton said:



			What _is_ their problem?? :frown3:
		
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An inability to step back and not expose themselves to further public discussion by inviting further speculation?


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## mirage (22 April 2014)

I only clicked on this thread because the OPs user name is actually my pony's name.There is no truth in the old saying that 'there is no such thing as bad publicity',it has certainly warned me off buying from them.


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## alwaysbroke (22 April 2014)

Whatever happened to the saying 'the customer is always right' (even if there not) seems as if many new businesses could learn from it.


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## LaMooch (22 April 2014)

its not how many positive reviews you have but how you deal with the bad that shows you for the true business you are


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## Regandal (22 April 2014)

The power of the web.  I've bought from various companies after seeing good reviews on here, Premier Equine, Ruggles, Viovet.  If you search anything horsey on google, HHO is always in the top 3 replies.  It would be a foolish company to ignore/alienate such a well used popular forum.


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## LaMooch (22 April 2014)

Regandal said:



			The power of the web.  I've bought from various companies after seeing good reviews on here, Premier Equine, Ruggles, Viovet.  If you search anything horsey on google, HHO is always in the top 3 replies.  It would be a foolish company to ignore/alienate such a well used popular forum.
		
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Like you I google companies I want to use and also check against HHO its like my guide to good and bad of equine world


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## Elsiecat (22 April 2014)

Serephin said:



			Its the arrogance of youth IMO.
		
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Ah, yes, of course. This is the stamp of every under 25 across the land. Tsk tsk.


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## Cinnamontoast (22 April 2014)

OP, many thanks for pointing out a company I will now carefully avoid. Go sort out the late orders instead of talking rubbish on here and succeeding only in drawing the wrong kind of attention to your company. (In my opinion, without prejudice) 



RaposadeGengibre said:



			Its not another season of garment Eastenders, is it?
		
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Laughed out loud!


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## HuggyBear (22 April 2014)

I have nothing worthwhile to add other than this is exactly the reason I love this forum.

I will join the 'I had never heard of them before but I won't buy from them now' brigade.


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## Fides (22 April 2014)

The law about forums and libel was changed about 3 months ago - people can state now if they have a bad service on an open forum without repercussion as the person/company is perfectly able to publicly defend themselves...


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## YorksG (22 April 2014)

Fides said:



			The law about forums and libel was changed about 3 months ago - people can state now if they have a bad service on an open forum without repercussion as the person/company is perfectly able to publicly defend themselves...
		
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However, it would appear from reading the other thread, they are trying to defend the indefencable


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## Honey08 (22 April 2014)

I just can't believe anyone involved with the business would drag all this up again online when it had all finally died down and gone quiet!  Unless they work on the theory that any publicity is good publicity!


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## martlin (22 April 2014)

Oh, goody, that has entertained me for a bit...
I've never bought from your company, OP, and after reading this and the previous thread I certainly won't.


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## LaMooch (22 April 2014)

martlin said:



			Oh, goody, that has entertained me for a bit...
I've never bought from your company, OP, and after reading this and the previous thread I certainly won't.
		
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Think it is business suicide this thread


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## Spring Feather (23 April 2014)

I'd never even heard of this company until this thread appeared.  I wonder just how many others on H&H had never heard of it ... but we do now!  I did see the thread with the name of this company in the title but I hadn't read it, so had no idea there were problems, but thanks to this new thread OP, you've brought loads of new attention to your company.


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## LaMooch (23 April 2014)

Spring Feather said:



			I'd never even heard of this company until this thread appeared.  I wonder just how many others on H&H had never heard of it ... but we do now!  I did see the thread with the name of this company in the title but I hadn't read it, so had no idea there were problems, but thanks to this new thread OP, you've brought loads of new attention to your company.
		
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ditto


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## Equi (23 April 2014)

Spring Feather said:



			I'd never even heard of this company until this thread appeared.  I wonder just how many others on H&H had never heard of it ... but we do now!  I did see the thread with the name of this company in the title but I hadn't read it, so had no idea there were problems, but thanks to this new thread OP, you've brought loads of new attention to your company.
		
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I had _heard_ of them but never dealt with them. Not sure i would now. Same as with the other long winded thread, it gave them very little respect from me.


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## Serephin (23 April 2014)

Elsiecat said:



			Ah, yes, of course. This is the stamp of every under 25 across the land. Tsk tsk.
		
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Its true though isn't it. Having employed youngsters before I would never again as IMO they think most tasks are beneath them and that they know better than others that are far more experienced.

It seems that young business owners are falling foul of their own egos. As such in this case and the Schwmae debacle before. Instead of posessing the temerity to take complaints and criticism on the chin and sort it out they start stamping their feet and attacking. Probably something to do with 'respekt' that they think is their god given right despite not having earned it. &#128521;


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## Elsiecat (23 April 2014)

Really, Serephin? I think you perhaps need to be more careful who you employ. That is a shame. I have no doubt that in many situations what you say is true, but in many it is not and I think you've just had bad luck!


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## Serephin (23 April 2014)

Elsiecat said:



			Really, Serephin? I think you perhaps need to be more careful who you employ. That is a shame. I have no doubt that in many situations what you say is true, but in many it is not and I think you've just had bad luck!
		
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Unfortunately no matter how careful you are when employing someone, it can turn out badly despite best efforts. Finding decent reliable staff is one of the most challenging parts of running a business. Yes, probably bad luck, but has made us very retiscent to take the risk if we needed to employ more staff.


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## Nugget La Poneh (23 April 2014)

Serephin said:



			Its true though isn't it. Having employed youngsters before I would never again as IMO they think most tasks are beneath them and that they know better than others that are far more experienced.

It seems that young business owners are falling foul of their own egos. As such in this case and the Schwmae debacle before. Instead of posessing the temerity to take complaints and criticism on the chin and sort it out they start stamping their feet and attacking. Probably something to do with 'respekt' that they think is their god given right despite not having earned it. &#55357;&#56841;
		
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While there is an element to what you say (certainly work ethos appears to be dwindling), I think age is only a factor because you hear about the failing companies, and then the age of the owners is highlighted and then used as a reason.


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## cobgoblin (23 April 2014)

Serephin said:



			Its true though isn't it. Having employed youngsters before I would never again as IMO they think most tasks are beneath them and that they know better than others that are far more experienced.

It seems that young business owners are falling foul of their own egos. As such in this case and the Schwmae debacle before. Instead of posessing the temerity to take complaints and criticism on the chin and sort it out they start stamping their feet and attacking. Probably something to do with 'respekt' that they think is their god given right despite not having earned it. &#128521;
		
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I have heard similar complaints from so many employers over the last 20yrs. There is more to the high youth unemployment than meets the eye.


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## Goldenstar (23 April 2014)

cobgoblin said:



			I have heard similar complaints from so many employers over the last 20yrs. There is more to the high youth unemployment than meets the eye.
		
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Yes there is ,school and parents are not preparing some for the reality of what working means .
I won't bore you with the details of why I have given up I go for older every time .


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## CeeCee (23 April 2014)

Tentatively replying to this thread as I was involved in the other thread but my comment has now been deleted.  Really surprised to see this rear it's ugly head again!  

I will reserve in commenting on this specific company for fear of being sued! However, I really cannot see the problem in one voicing an honest and factual account of their experiences, surely that is what a public forum is for? I think the horse community as a whole is being underestimated, I may of had my comment deleted on a forum however I have talked to friends, clients, farrier, physio etc (again factual information and not slanderous), unfortunately a bad reputation can and will travel much faster than a good one.  It seems to me that efforts are being placed in the wrong areas and in pointing the finger at customers rather than address the actual problem has upset a lot of people, these people have turned to a public forum to find anyone having the same experiences.  

As others have said, unfortunately the age of the customer is always right is dying a death!


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## SadKen (23 April 2014)

Seems pretty obvious that out of everyone who's posted on the thread, only the OP would be in favour of gagging honest reviews, and clearly has a vested interest in hoping that people would agree. 

All it's done is get people's backs up.  I won't have anyone suggest that I shouldn't do something - I'm an adult.  Try and bring the law into it, and it will only make me more determined to do what I wanted - within the law, which I will immediately go and read up on. 

As it is, I have taken from this and the schwmae thread that both business owners have plenty of free time in which to make misguided comments on a forum instead of resolving things for their customers.  Not the committed business person that I want to buy from. 

I'm another that's gone back to buying from a shop locally, because you can't beat the service and buying online is fraught with dangers of losing money and vast delays.


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## bluedanube (23 April 2014)

It is not libel to give ones personal opinion on something, only to state as fact something that is untrue.
By all means go to court it will open up a good debate in the much wider public arena and the truth will out ;-)


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## Darremi (23 April 2014)

Kat said:



			The thing is that for a libel action to succeed the claimant has to prove that the statement was untrue!
		
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This is not entirely true. The burden of proof is actually on the defendant to prove that the statements were true.

This is the defence of "veritas".


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## Fides (23 April 2014)

Darremi said:



			This is not entirely true. The burden of proof is actually on the defendant to prove that the statements were true.

This is the defence of "veritas".
		
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But according to the recent amendments in the law, as the person/company has the opportunity to offer a counter argument on a public forum, no legal argument can be made. 

The fact that the OP has gone from being one who seemed to take criticism well to be one 'having a rant' had totally changed my opinion on them.

OP - after the previous thread I had reached the decision that once you had sorted the 'issues' out u would by from you as you offer a good range and seemed really reasonable. Now however I wouldn't buy anything from you out of principle.

OP - you have had a lesson in what it is like in the 'real world' - learn from your mistakes and stop blaming it on everyone else - you are the one giving a poor service. Deal with it!


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## LaMooch (23 April 2014)

SadKen said:



			As it is, I have taken from this and the schwmae thread that both business owners have plenty of free time in which to make misguided comments on a forum instead of resolving things for their customers.  Not the committed business person that I want to buy from.
		
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very true


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## ropa (23 April 2014)

This is a complicated area of law and I highly recommend you don 't roll the dice of issuing legal proceedings without a better understanding of the law. In law you can be liable for H&H costs if you are not right. I haven't seen the comment but typically UGC can be defended by "honest/  fair comment" which is where someone is stating their own personal view on facts that appear (but don't necessarly need) to be true. Their opinion may not be palatable but it may be their opinion rather than an indefensible allegation that appears to be factual which is in fact untrue and. It can be very damaging to have defamatory allegations against you but tread very carefully! I hope this helps somewhat!


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## Polar Bear9 (23 April 2014)

Serephin said:



			Its true though isn't it. Having employed youngsters before I would never again as IMO they think most tasks are beneath them and that they know better than others that are far more experienced.

It seems that young business owners are falling foul of their own egos. As such in this case and the Schwmae debacle before. Instead of posessing the temerity to take complaints and criticism on the chin and sort it out they start stamping their feet and attacking. Probably something to do with 'respekt' that they think is their god given right despite not having earned it. &#128521;
		
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I find this a tad upsetting. I'm 20 years old and certainty don't think stuff is beneath me, that I know better than experienced people and I like to think I don't have an over-inflated ego just because I am under 25. If I ran a business I would certainty not act in the way this poster has and I know just as many, if not more, older people who can be ignorant and rude as younger people. I know this has nothing to do with the original question but a really dislike the attitude that many people have towards young people, that we are all rude, lazy and unaware of the real world. Myself and many of my friends my age work very hard for what we have, it's not a good time to be a young person so please don't tar us all with the same brush.

Back on the post topic.... I completely agree with what others have said, will be avoiding this company now. Definitely not the way to make people buy from your company.


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## blitznbobs (23 April 2014)

As well as showing the defaming comments to be untrue you have to show 'a loss' because of defamation - in the case of a business this has to
Be financial as businesses can't have physical or psychological loss... This is incredibly - dare I say it - nearly impossible to show...


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## Spring Feather (23 April 2014)

Bear9 said:



			I know this has nothing to do with the original question but a really dislike the attitude that many people have towards young people, that we are all rude, lazy and unaware of the real world. Myself and many of my friends my age work very hard for what we have, it's not a good time to be a young person so please don't tar us all with the same brush.
		
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I agree, it is a very unfortunate time to be a youngster setting out in the world today.  You're not a rarity by any means, there are plenty youngsters who work as hard and are respectful of the job they do, unfortunately when you run a small business and you find some who aren't, it really does put you off giving others a chance; once bitten and all that.


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## myponyvic (23 April 2014)

Honestly, this comment upset me a little bit. I'm a young person, not going to state how young, but I have an illness known as Asperger's Syndrome which makes it extremely hard for me to understand emotion and makes me somewhat 'anti-social'. I however volunteer/am on placement at my local riding school and am there from 8am til half past 5 at night. Part of me being there is being polite to people, offering them drinks, making sure they are happy etc. In my opinion, if you aren't going to be well mannered then don't get a job working with people - go and get one where you can work from home without having to socialise with the rest of us. I think I would be a brilliant asset for any company; I'm very polite with many people even if it involves me biting my tongue, smiling politely and nodding. Many other young people I work with are extremely polite and always willing to help so I assume you've just had bad luck but please don't all label us. We aren't all that bad, promise haha.
Any who, I've sat and read this thread and in all honesty, it baffles me why this has been dragged back up by the original poster - whether or not it is the same person as before is a different matter. To me a reputation is earned no matter if it's good or bad. I love Robinsons for example, always prompt service and always happy to help. I would always recommend them. I'm off now to place an order with the Hope Valley Saddlery because of it's glowing rep on this thread. Reputation is key for any business. In all honesty, I wouldn't have posted this threat if I were the OP. All it's doing is bringing up things that were laid to rest a long time ago. 
You can't stop people expressing their opinion of businesses. At the end of the day, 99% of the time these people are being honest about their experiences and are trying to protect other people from this happening to them. The best way that a company can rectify mistakes is not by being rude or impolite, but by offering a sincere apology, ensuring this won't happen again and making sure that the customer walks away happily. I honestly won't be buying from this company now simply because of the way they have handled this. I know if I was in any way rude to any customer at our yard I would be in the dog house and rightly so.


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## Cherrydan (24 April 2014)

I also think as others have said, really. The op is arrogant and ignorant and it may be a reflection of immaturity/age. While I think it sounds ageist, being honest, I would rather hire an older person, with bills to pay and experience under their belt. If youngsters think its hard for them, perhaps look at the injustice associated with elderly people trying to find a job to pay the gas bill...its hard for everyone. My Dad is a self employed workaholic, aged 63, sometimes I've seen him eat mash and cheese for weeks to pay the bills (and he lives in a caravan for months on end so he can work). He would never rip anyone off, promise to do a job, take the money and not deliver.
As titillating as this thread has been, lol, I wont be joining in again. The irrationality of op alone, actually makes me feel quite sorry for her. I don't want to kick while she is down...Imagine being deluded enough to think this thread could help...tis very sad. I doubt the business will grow from this, and I doubt anyone is thick skinned enough for it to not chafe at the conscience. 
If you were my daughter, I wouldnt let you near this site, as people aren't laughing with you...you will only get negative energy, and thats not good for anyone, especially for you at this very bad time. My thoughts are with you.


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## McFluff (24 April 2014)

Very interesting thread. Many fantastic responses that confirm just how useful this forum is. As a new horse owner, I have found this a great place to find out about products and hear about companies. I actually ordered from a company based on how well they had responded to a poor review on this - and I got a fantastic service. 

For companies this is an amazing way to tap into a collective of potential customers - but only if you listen and respond constructively. It is not the fault of the forum (users or host) if companies fail to do this and suffer as a result. 

OP please, please, please heed the advice of so many others about legal action. I deal with this as part of my job - nobody really wins. Invest the money in your development - learn how to keep your customers happy and learn how to respond to feedback. If you aren't prepared to change how you react, then perhaps you need a change in career. Customer service roles aren't for everyone. 

Long may the exchange of honest experiences (good and bad) live on this forum.


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## _GG_ (24 April 2014)

McFluff said:



			Very interesting thread. Many fantastic responses that confirm just how useful this forum is. As a new horse owner, I have found this a great place to find out about products and hear about companies. I actually ordered from a company based on how well they had responded to a poor review on this - and I got a fantastic service. 

For companies this is an amazing way to tap into a collective of potential customers - but only if you listen and respond constructively. It is not the fault of the forum (users or host) if companies fail to do this and suffer as a result. 

OP please, please, please heed the advice of so many others about legal action. I deal with this as part of my job - nobody really wins. Invest the money in your development - learn how to keep your customers happy and learn how to respond to feedback. If you aren't prepared to change how you react, then perhaps you need a change in career. Customer service roles aren't for everyone. 

Long may the exchange of honest experiences (good and bad) live on this forum.
		
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This has to be one of the best first posts ever!

Welcome to the forum McFluff


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## LaMooch (24 April 2014)

McFluff said:



			Very interesting thread. Many fantastic responses that confirm just how useful this forum is. As a new horse owner, I have found this a great place to find out about products and hear about companies. I actually ordered from a company based on how well they had responded to a poor review on this - and I got a fantastic service. 

For companies this is an amazing way to tap into a collective of potential customers - but only if you listen and respond constructively. It is not the fault of the forum (users or host) if companies fail to do this and suffer as a result. 

OP please, please, please heed the advice of so many others about legal action. I deal with this as part of my job - nobody really wins. Invest the money in your development - learn how to keep your customers happy and learn how to respond to feedback. If you aren't prepared to change how you react, then perhaps you need a change in career. Customer service roles aren't for everyone. 

Long may the exchange of honest experiences (good and bad) live on this forum.
		
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_GG_ said:



			This has to be one of the best first posts ever!

Welcome to the forum McFluff 

Click to expand...

Fully agree with GG. 
Welcome McFluff


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## McFluff (24 April 2014)

LaMooch said:



			Fully agree with GG. 
Welcome McFluff
		
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Thank you both so much for the welcome. 

I've been a 'lurker' for some time - this thread has so many similarities to the day job - so felt the need to take the plunge and speak up for what is a fantastic resource!


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## _GG_ (24 April 2014)

McFluff said:



			Thank you both so much for the welcome. 

I've been a 'lurker' for some time - this thread has so many similarities to the day job - so felt the need to take the plunge and speak up for what is a fantastic resource!
		
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Need a "like" button


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## Honey08 (24 April 2014)

Going back to the youth angle, I have had three fantastic girls work for me at weekends, they were all wonderful and I was very pleased.  Another 15 year old is about to start, and I'm very hopeful.  I would happily give any young person a chance.  (The ones I had problems with were new graduate types who thought they knew it all/deserved it all on a plate and weren't prepared to learn/adapt on a new job).


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## _GG_ (25 April 2014)

Honey08 said:



			Going back to the youth angle, I have had three fantastic girls work for me at weekends, they were all wonderful and I was very pleased.  Another 15 year old is about to start, and I'm very hopeful.  I would happily give any young person a chance.  (The ones I had problems with were new graduate types who thought they knew it all/deserved it all on a plate and weren't prepared to learn/adapt on a new job).
		
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The only reason I have not got into that debate is that the rudest of people I have met have been older people. Young people can go through a phase, but if you handle it right, you'll end up with an amazingly helpful person with bags of energy. Older people can be much more difficult to deal with sometimes!


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## AmandaMT (8 May 2014)

OP it was very unprofessional to start this thread if you wanted to get justice you should have contacted a solicitor and left this forum quiet. You are very young OP so maybe a few lessons in PR won't go a miss until you have experience behind you.


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## Renvers (7 June 2014)

quirky said:



			Haven't read thread, will when home.

Has anybody else received a rather passive aggressive pm from the op?

I posted a generic 'wouldn't buy off a company with no contact details' on the original thread.
This has been interpreted as having a grievance against them.

Are they clutching at straws, or what?
		
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Sorry to resurrect an old thread but I too have had one of these emails after posting, what I thought was a fairly encouraging post on the the original thread - along lines of nice products/hope you turn it around. It seemed really odd but now I know others have had them I don't really quite so confused.

I am ticked off at getting a fairly officious demand for me to respond in 48 hours with my grievance. Suffice to say I too won't be using this company, although I will be googling for suppliers of some of the brands on the site that I liked.  All successful businesses have one thing in common - customers, why alienate them?


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## AmandaMT (8 June 2014)

OP should not be going around telling people what to do if they want to sort the apparent issue. Why was the other thread pulled?


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## Fides (8 June 2014)

AmandaMT said:



			OP should not be going around telling people what to do if they want to sort the apparent issue. Why was the other thread pulled?
		
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Because she had a hiss fit and kicked up a stink I think


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## Ranyhyn (8 June 2014)

You don't seem to hear anyone slagging off Ariat.  Their CS is second to none, their quality is second to none and when it's not - their CS kicks in..


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## _GG_ (8 June 2014)

Ranyhyn said:



			You don't seem to hear anyone slagging off Ariat.  Their CS is second to none, their quality is second to none and when it's not - their CS kicks in..
		
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My Ariat leather gaitors broke 3 weeks after buying them. They sent a courier to collect, when he arrived, he left me with a brand new identical pair. When I got my original pair back, they were sent recorded, so I called Ariat about sending back the other pair and they said, "No, we do not expect any product of ours to break in such a short time and it is our pleasure to provide you with an extra pair of gaitors. Should you have any other issues in the future, please don't hesitate to let us know". 

That is great customer service


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## Ranyhyn (8 June 2014)

^like


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## Fides (8 June 2014)

Just realised gemstone flyers account is still active - I take it the admin don't know about this thread slating their forum and actions, or that there is yet another BE user. They do now...


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## abracadabra (8 June 2014)

They know gemstone flyer is one of BE's alias's, yes.


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## Fides (8 June 2014)

abracadabra said:



			They know gemstone flyer is one of BE's alias's, yes.
		
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Yet it is still active? It's against 'the rules'


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## Mayfair (9 June 2014)

Gemstoneflyer aka the woman running the company bespoke equestrian who has my money and has so far not given it back, crying about h & h thinking they are above the law give us all a break sweetie give us the thirty odd pages of complainants our money, then make all your unsatisfied customers happy and stop (allegedly) trading x


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## Pigeon (9 June 2014)

I think it's great. There are plenty of companies out there to rip you off, and either provide a substandard service or no service at all. This forum is one way of warning others if you have had a bad experience yourself - facebook being another. The fact that the company owner can't delete posts they don't like here gives a much clearer picture of the company.


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## Cheshire Chestnut (9 June 2014)

As my dad would say: 'I could eat a bowl of alphabet soup and ***** a better arguement than that'

Provide rubbish sevice, ripping off people for their hard earned cash and expect a backlash and others deserve to know. I don't see anyone suing the BBC for 'Don't Get Done, Get Dom' or 'Rouge Traders' when they flag up wrong doings, so I'd like to see how someone trying to sue a public forum gets on. 

Like others have said, companies that do a good job and provide an honest service get good reviews - bad ones are shown up and so they should be. This world is full of people who let others down and I for one am glad I read the posts about this 'company' before I ordered, needless to say, I changed my mind and ordered elsewhere. 

I'm all for TripAdvisor but I do know to take some reviews with a pinch of salt, however it's the ones that have a certain trend and repetative complaints I avoid - there must be a good reason for this. I think the same can be applied to this certain company. 

I do think this person had been unfortunate in some ways in the beginning, however they have to take full responsibility for single handedly flushing their business down the toilet with their bad attitude, customer care and unwillingness to change.


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## Bosra_Sham (9 June 2014)

I find it highly ironic that a person who claims to be studying law would conduct themselves in the manner that the OP has.

Having read the other thread and witnessed a post on a fb group in which they banded out some legal terms and childish comments in reponse to complaints from customers still waiting for goods/refunds, I would certainly never part with any money to this company.

A situation such as this could have been easily rectified by being honest and replying to customers, this has clearly not been done as there are still people trying to get a reply and any form of resolution.

It all comes across as a very immature person who has gotten over their head and instead of dealing with the problems you have chucked the toys out the pram!

This is not knocking young business owners, I know quite a few and are doing very well but all had a specific business plan set out and know their limits. 

It's people like the OP that give them the bad name!


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## AmandaMT (9 June 2014)

Has anyone made a compliant page on Facebook for this to make people aware


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## *hic* (9 June 2014)

Not one there so far as I am aware.

I found it highly amusing the other day that someone sharing the name of the OP of this thread was giving rave reviews of one of the other companies run from the same address.

Incidentally, the other thread was not pulled but was locked. Provided this thread is kept reasonable it may be allowed to stay.


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## AmandaMT (9 June 2014)

What do you mean OP was giving rave reviews J*A? I really do think someone should make a page for this girl on Facebook. Seeing all of these unsatisfied complaints isn't right.


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## magicmoose (9 June 2014)

abracadabra said:



			They know gemstone flyer is one of BE's alias's, yes.
		
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So far I count three or possibly four accounts:
Bespokeequestrian
Gemstoneflyer
Gemstoneflyer13
Del Boy (banned as a "very close associate of Bespokeequestrian")


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## abracadabra (9 June 2014)

Also seriously sceptical of the people that coincidently chose times when BE was online, to make accounts for the express purpose a leaving glowing report, then never making a second post.


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## dunkley (9 June 2014)

Someone once said to me, "If only 50% of what is said is 100% accurate - it's still pretty appalling!"


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## AmandaMT (9 June 2014)

Can HHO not stop her from making more accounts?


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## Hoofmoves (16 August 2014)

Have you also have 'problems' with Shwmae?


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## Hoofmoves (16 August 2014)

Hoofmoves said:



			Have you also have 'problems' with Shwmae?
		
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Ignore the above message please was posted here my mistake- new to this forum stuff! I don't know how I delete it!


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