# Horse collapsing multiple times.



## Jake's mum (14 June 2012)

I have a 26 yr old 16h1 ID x cob who has been fortunately very healthy until recently.

A neighbour saw him suddenly collapse one morning 20 minutes after I left him after giving him his breakfast in his field.  He fell very fast almost as if he was out of it before he hit the ground, so we are certain it is not a case of his legs giving way.  

He fell forward and then managed to roll onto his side and then went very rigid with all four legs straight out.  He stayed like this for 10 minutes and the neighbour suspects he was unconscious for this 10 minutes, unfortunately he was trying to find my number and watching Badger from his bedroom window so did not get the chance to see Badger up close to confirm this. 

I think Badger must have been unconscious and the vet seems to agree, if Badger is distressed he tends to sweat up and had he been conscious and unable to move, I am certain he would have been scared and would have sweated up.  The neighbour also saw no signs of life in the 10 minutes, he thought Badger had had a heart attack.   

Badger then got up very slowly and was very uncoordinated.  By time the vet and I got there 30 minutes after he collapsed he seem ok, a little subdued, nothing drastic though.  His heart was fine and the vet could find nothing obvious.  Blood tests for liver and kidneys all came back fine.  

Badger was found with wet boggy mud on the front of his legs where he fell forward.  I had found him like this 48 hours prior to this and thought he must have slipped in the boggy mud by the fence.  I now think it happened then as well.  

Since these two episodes I have found him twice with the wet boggy mud on the front of his legs.  Badger is a very clean horse and never chooses to lay down or roll in wet mud.  All four episodes have happened around breakfast time, mind you at this time of the morning he is waiting at the fence line for me, where it is very muddy.  It could be happening at other times of the day when he is in the middle of the field where there is lots of grass, so his legs would not necessarily show any signs.  

He was tested negatively in Jan this year for cushings, we have run another test today just to be on the save side.  The next step is a standing CT scan at the RVS to see if anything neurological shows up.  

Badger's behaviour has not changed in anyway apart from him being a bit more affectionate, I think these episodes have scared him and he is clinging to me a bit more when I am in the field with him.  

Has anyone else come across anything like this before?  I am so scared of what is happening to Badger and worried that this is happening a lot more frequently then the four times we are fairly certain it has happened.  

If anyone can think of anything please let me know as I would be very grateful.  

Thanks


----------



## lachlanandmarcus (14 June 2012)

I was going to say heart (my Doberman has cardiac myopathy and symptoms included sudden 'absences' but you say that is fine.

Do horses get epilepsy? The symptoms sound a bit like that if they do?

It must be incredibly worrying for you and upsetting for Badger, I hope you find a treatable answer to this :-(((( my thoughts are with you both.


----------



## Queenbee (14 June 2012)

Cataplexy, a form of  Narcolepsy?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GQ0pxYeQG4

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/horsecare/1370/103928.html

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/3095/equine-narcolepsy

http://novickdvm.com/narcolep.htm

There are various forms of narcolepsy, cataplexy is a sudden loss of consciousness, hope you manage to find a diagnosis, I have read articles about competition horses that suffer with this and still manage to lead successful ridden and eventing careers


----------



## pines of rome (14 June 2012)

It could be a heart problem, might be worth getting an ECG done as I had a horse that did this  and his heart rhythms were all over the place, causing him to suddenly drop!


----------



## jaijai (14 June 2012)

Sorry no advice to give but sending good vibes and hope Badger is okay. xx


----------



## cptrayes (14 June 2012)

I'm reasonably sure that you aren't going to want to hear this, so I will apologise in advance for upsetting you but I firmly believe that it needs to be said. Your horse is 26 years old and has lived a long and fulfilled life for a large horse. I think you should have him put to sleep before this condition, whatever it is, causes him and you any more distress.


----------



## Queenbee (14 June 2012)

fair point CP, I didnt see Badgers age  more chances of it being heart than narcolepsy at this age Id guess


----------



## Dolcé (14 June 2012)

If it is happening around meal times then minor choke is a possibility!  We have several ponies that suffer if given hard feed, they stand looking 'out of it'  and then go down as if to roll (so on knees) but the spasms can make them go rigid.  They also seem spaced for a while after getting up.  Obviously the degree of the choke can affect the amount of time they stay down. Certainly worth considering and if his breakfast includes nuts and/or beet then I would definitely think it could be a possiblity.


----------



## foxy1 (15 June 2012)

A few years ago a pony I know was diagnosed with epilepsy, she had episodes like you describe.

However, I agree with CPTrayes on this. It is very frightening for a prey animal to find themselves on the floor and not in control of themselves. I think you need to think very carefully about the kindest option for your much loved boy.


----------



## Amymay (15 June 2012)

Has anyone else come across anything like this before?
		
Click to expand...

Yes, I had a horse that did this.

Had him put down I'm afraid.


----------



## Potato! (15 June 2012)

IMO he is telling you its his time


----------



## Clippy (15 June 2012)

We had a pony in his thirties and the kids used to hack him around on their own, he was as safe as houses.

One day my daughter came running home crying, through the tears she managed to say the pony had died. We were horrified and ran up the lane to find him, but he was stood eating grass at the side of the track.

The vet couldn't give us an answer, his heart seemed ok, he appeared back to his old self but he was never ridden again. He did die in a similar way some time later so it might just be a sign that something is going wrong due to his age


----------



## BigRed (15 June 2012)

If he was my horse I would be having him pts.  At the moment you have been lucky, he has collapsed and been able to get up un-injured.  The next time he may fall and break a leg, or he may collapse on top of you or someone else.  You will then be faced with an emergency situation and be waiting there for a vet to arrive and sort out a distressing situation.

It is hard enough to have to say good bye to a much loved friend, but it is a LOT better to do it in a controlled manner.


----------



## smokey (15 June 2012)

I'm inclined to agree with those who say it may be his time. I'm sorry as this probably wasn't the answer you wanted, but if this is ongoing, and is distressing for him it may be the kindest for him. Thoughts are with you x


----------



## AdorableAlice (15 June 2012)

I found my old boy with unexplained minor injuries on him in the box.  Grazed face, bit missing from his lip, bump over his eye, disturbed bed, over the christmas period 2009.  He had been retired aged 25 with a heart murmour and was 29.

His eye had a vacant look and he was slightly anxious.  This was not a permanent state and he still had a run around in the paddocks.  I also noticed his co-ordination doing things like turning and backing in the gateways was not quite right.

I fed him as normal in the morning and as he put his head down to the bucket he toppled forwards banging his forehead on the wall and going to his knees, he did get up but was very disorientated.

My vet had been seeing him over the 5/6 days that we noticed the changes going on for.  His bloods etc were fine but it was obvious he was in trouble.

We felt he had suffered a number of 'mini strokes'.

He is under his favourite oak tree, RIP my fiery welshman.

Kindest regards OP, but Father Time may have caught up with your old boy, like he did with mine.


----------



## fatpiggy (15 June 2012)

My horse has epilepsy and it is pretty rare for them to collapse in the way you describe. I do know of one that did so, to the extent that people who saw it said it looked she had been shot.  The vast majority remain conscious to a large degree which is why seizures in horses are so dangerous.  Given your old chap's age I would be looking at either a heart problem, or circulation to the brain.


----------



## maggiehorse (15 June 2012)

my old tb gelding harry kept getting unexplained grazes around his eyes and on the front of his front fetlocks , he seemed absolutely fine and i was still occasionally riding him , untill i saw him standing munching his haynet in stable when he suddenly crashed onto his knees then onto his side , after about 2 mins he got up , was fine , not dazed or vacant at all , we of course had the vet who did a number of tests and couldnt find anything wrong with heart or bloods etc , we turned him out and didnt see anything ammiss for a couple of months , but he was still cutting and grazing himself , then on christmas day he started to look slightly odd , was standing pressing his head against the stable wall , then at times his tongue was lolling out , cue getting vet back for advise .
       he very gently told us that he strongly suspected harry had a brain tumour , that he could do nothing to help him and that if he was left the next symptoms could be mania , agression , total lack of awareness and that he could become a danger to anyone trying to help him 
       we arranged for the vet to come back in a few days and put my beloved horse of a lifetime down , harry looked perfectly normal as i led him to field to have a last bit of grass , hardest thing i,ve ever done was pass the leadrope to my best friend who also loved him , i went behind a hedge and heard him fall to the ground , i,ve never got over his loss


----------



## Maesfen (15 June 2012)

I'm sorry, I agree entirely with CPT and others who say call it a day for his benefit.

He's a big horse and it's not only his health and safety you should be worrying about but anyone who comes into contact with him.


----------



## natz1411 (15 November 2012)

Hello, I have exactly the same situation with my mare at the moment. Every time it has been happening and like you said it was like switching off a light, it has been in the evening and seems to be when she is eating her feed. 

Have you had any further progress with your vet or tests as would be great to compare comments?


----------



## alainax (15 November 2012)

My old mare used to do this, and was quickly diagnosed with cushings. The medication stopped it.


----------



## natz1411 (15 November 2012)

She has been tested for cushings and came back negative? 





Jake's mum said:



			I have a 26 yr old 16h1 ID x cob who has been fortunately very healthy until recently.

A neighbour saw him suddenly collapse one morning 20 minutes after I left him after giving him his breakfast in his field.  He fell very fast almost as if he was out of it before he hit the ground, so we are certain it is not a case of his legs giving way.  

He fell forward and then managed to roll onto his side and then went very rigid with all four legs straight out.  He stayed like this for 10 minutes and the neighbour suspects he was unconscious for this 10 minutes, unfortunately he was trying to find my number and watching Badger from his bedroom window so did not get the chance to see Badger up close to confirm this. 

I think Badger must have been unconscious and the vet seems to agree, if Badger is distressed he tends to sweat up and had he been conscious and unable to move, I am certain he would have been scared and would have sweated up.  The neighbour also saw no signs of life in the 10 minutes, he thought Badger had had a heart attack.   

Badger then got up very slowly and was very uncoordinated.  By time the vet and I got there 30 minutes after he collapsed he seem ok, a little subdued, nothing drastic though.  His heart was fine and the vet could find nothing obvious.  Blood tests for liver and kidneys all came back fine.  

Badger was found with wet boggy mud on the front of his legs where he fell forward.  I had found him like this 48 hours prior to this and thought he must have slipped in the boggy mud by the fence.  I now think it happened then as well.  

Since these two episodes I have found him twice with the wet boggy mud on the front of his legs.  Badger is a very clean horse and never chooses to lay down or roll in wet mud.  All four episodes have happened around breakfast time, mind you at this time of the morning he is waiting at the fence line for me, where it is very muddy.  It could be happening at other times of the day when he is in the middle of the field where there is lots of grass, so his legs would not necessarily show any signs.  

He was tested negatively in Jan this year for cushings, we have run another test today just to be on the save side.  The next step is a standing CT scan at the RVS to see if anything neurological shows up.  

Badger's behaviour has not changed in anyway apart from him being a bit more affectionate, I think these episodes have scared him and he is clinging to me a bit more when I am in the field with him.  

Has anyone else come across anything like this before?  I am so scared of what is happening to Badger and worried that this is happening a lot more frequently then the four times we are fairly certain it has happened.  

If anyone can think of anything please let me know as I would be very grateful.  

Thanks
		
Click to expand...




alainax said:



			My old mare used to do this, and was quickly diagnosed with cushings. The medication stopped it.
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Noodlebug (15 November 2012)

My old horse had similar episodes and vet could never find anything wrong with him. He went on until he was 35!


----------



## natz1411 (15 November 2012)

The thing that is worrying me is that it is becoming more frequent for my mare, originally it was only happening once a year, if that? now it has happened twice in the past month. The situations are not getting worse, she is down and up in a matter of seconds. Not distressed no injuries. I just am wondering what I can be doing to help her if anything. Rubber matting has been placed around the stable, its banked up. Huge deep shaving bed. 

Was any of the horses tested or did the vet advise anything? She is 24 now, so not really that old, just wondered if it is something that does develop in later life?



Noodlebug said:



			My old horse had similar episodes and vet could never find anything wrong with him. He went on until he was 35!
		
Click to expand...


----------



## fatpiggy (15 November 2012)

natz1411 said:



			The thing that is worrying me is that it is becoming more frequent for my mare, originally it was only happening once a year, if that? now it has happened twice in the past month. The situations are not getting worse, she is down and up in a matter of seconds. Not distressed no injuries. I just am wondering what I can be doing to help her if anything. Rubber matting has been placed around the stable, its banked up. Huge deep shaving bed. 

Was any of the horses tested or did the vet advise anything? She is 24 now, so not really that old, just wondered if it is something that does develop in later life?
		
Click to expand...


Hi Natz,

If it is seizures, there is invariably a trigger. Eating is a very common one. My girl's seizures were 98% when she started her breakfast.  Even her occasional evening ones were started by food.  She also only had the odd one here and there and then suddenly went onto a 10 day cycle and stayed on it for good.  Out of curiosity, what breeding is your mare?


----------



## natz1411 (15 November 2012)

Thank you for your response. My mare is a x Arab. So what did you manage to do to help? or was you able to slow it down?

Just want to do anything that I can to slow it down or prevent this happening and hurting her. 



fatpiggy said:



			Hi Natz,

If it is seizures, there is invariably a trigger. Eating is a very common one. My girl's seizures were 98% when she started her breakfast.  Even her occasional evening ones were started by food.  She also only had the odd one here and there and then suddenly went onto a 10 day cycle and stayed on it for good.  Out of curiosity, what breeding is your mare?
		
Click to expand...


----------



## fatpiggy (15 November 2012)

As things are relatively safe at the moment I'd bide my time a bit I think. Keep a diary of them and note anything you see which is abnormal or unusual (even the weather!). You may see a pattern.  You've made the stable pretty safe but I wouldn't leave her to eat unattended, just in case.  I used to feed mine in the indoor arena - soft surface, space to fall over in and solid walls to prop herself on as the seizure progressed.  I was lucky in that her seizures were cyclical so completely predictable.  If things continue or worsen, you should ask your vet to do a full neurological work up .

Arab blood - that doesn't surprise me.

My old girl was a true epileptic and was treated with phenobarbitone and potassium bromide.  A very expensive drug habit unfortunately and many vets won't prescribe on the grounds of cost.


----------



## Noodlebug (16 November 2012)

No the vet always came and checked him but never anything wrong. Heart fine each time and also didn't suggest that I should investigate and said he was probably old age and could be a number of things but just keep an eye on him. It is such a worry as you are always scared of what you will find but 9 times out of 10 he was fine and happy!


----------



## natz1411 (16 November 2012)

That is really what they have said with her, but I have outlined below her situation and whats happened just to see if you are able to compare it with your experience? 

So I have had Amber for 9 years now she is now 24 and she's had laminitus last year and was box rested etc but completely fully recovered now, impact colic a few years ago full recovered but nothing else (touch wood).

A few years ago, someone had said that she had a wobble as they was walking out of the field, but didnt go down no fit no nothing and couple of seconds later she was fine. 

Then a year or so later, apparently she fell to the floor whilst she was having a drink at the night time after being brought in from shoeing.But was up in a couple of seconds.  I was not there so cannot say what she was like. 

About eight months after this again I had brought her in at night into her stable after being shod, and I heard a bang, ran round the corner and she was at the back of her stable on the floor. Not fitting to be honest just trying to get back up again. 

Then a few months later I had actually seen it happen, it was night time again she was eating her feed and it was like a light being switched off with her, she staggered around her stable as her body went limp and she fell backwards in her stable. By time I shouted for someone to help she was getting herself up wondering what on earth had happened and why I was making such a fuss. 

Now in the past two months, we have heard her fall down but not actually seen it she always gets back up just in time. 

and she is fine , no aggression, no distress, no change of temperament. It only has happened at night time, usually around when she has her feed. Most of the time after the vet or farrier is there, but she falls asleep when they are there so I cannot say that she is distressed. 

she was tested for cushings and came back negative, she has had neurological tests and all okay. 

Before an faint/collapse what ever you would call it she is very lethargic. Narcalepsy has been mentioned but after watching several videos it just doesnt seem like her! Especially cos several times she has been eating! 

If anyone has any suggestions that I could do to help all welcome - well apart from having her put to sleep. NOT option she is not suffering.

Thanks


----------



## fatpiggy (16 November 2012)

Well narcolepsy also has triggers and putting the bit in is a known one, so I wouldn't rule it out - opening the mouth to eat food is not so different.  Other triggers are having the girth done up, being groomed, having the legs touched - things which make the horse feel relaxed.  It is also really rather common, despite what vets will tell you.

Like I said before, I would monitor things and see how she goes on. Be warned though, epileptic seizures can often start off as mild things, not really worrying and one day they escalate with no warning at all and your horse rears up and goes over backwards.  If you see anything worsening at all, call the vet again without hesitation.


----------



## GreedyGuts (17 November 2012)

Has your vet done hock flexions on him? Have you seen him rolling/lying down recently? In my experience the most common cause of sudden collapse in horses is exhaustion due to sleep depravation because the horse is reluctant to lie down due to sore hocks/spavin. Usually these horses will pitch forward as they pass out, and dirty or scuffed knees are often what initially alerts the owner to a problem. 

There are obviously many other more sinister causes for collapse, but this is the most common, and I wouldn't PTS without discussing it with your vet as in the vast majority of cases treatment is successful.


----------



## Noodlebug (17 November 2012)

I would find him in the field lying down or he would go down at strange times i.e. feed time. When he was younger he did go down on his knees when I did his girth up once. He was always fine after and it was more stressful for me as he really didn't seem to know it had happened!! The vets did say it could be his heart and he was having a episode that wasn't apparent when they listened to it by time they got there. There was no mention of PTS just to keep an eye on him and if any thing changed they would re-assess him.


----------



## mop (21 December 2014)

hi i have two horse and their condition is on here under   horses that keep collapsing  vet is now thinking sleep depravation go and look on equisearch and don t give up!! maybe just needs a change of environment


----------



## trottingon (22 December 2014)

OP you know for a fact he has fallen once.  I'm wondering if you could hang around after his breakfast for a few days (are you off work over Christmas?) so you can perhaps witness what is happening yourself?


----------



## leggs (22 December 2014)

My mare had this  a couple of years ago I contacted the dr in the article and together we found out what was causing it, the sleep deprivation which made her crash down once every 2 wks, in her case it turned out to be ulcers that caused pain when lying down. BUT horses need remsleep,if not, they will crash and sometimes go straight into remsleep which looks a lot like epilepsy, twitching their legs. and having their eyes open.

have a read thru this; http://veterinarycalendar.dvm360.co...t-narcolepsy-horses-proceedings?rel=canonical


----------



## ihatework (22 December 2014)

Just seen this is a very old post!


----------



## mop (22 December 2014)

good for you!!!at last someone that perseveres and sees a quality of life


----------



## mop (22 December 2014)

hi i m lucky to be with them all day every day and they both do it at least 5 times whilst i m there i ve even videod them for the vet who after running up a huge vet bill has no explanation


----------



## mop (22 December 2014)

thanks its definately what they are both doing and i can t seem to do anything to help them


----------



## smellsofhorse (23 December 2014)

Could he be anaemic?
Causing him to collapse?

Or sounds neurological.

I scan sounds a good plan.

I hope you get it sorted and can control it.


----------



## mop (23 December 2014)

had aneamea checked and neurological checks and all clear Both of them doing it  tested for everything we can all clear had steroids antibiotics bute but no different thanks


----------

