# I want to back to the field and I want to go NOW!!!



## Olliepoppy (9 January 2016)

My 7.5 year old cob has recently decided that when he comes out of the field and down to the yard he will NOT stand still. This obviously makes it very difficult to groom/tack up etc. Today we went out for a hack and when I brought him back he stood long enough for me to get his tack off then just reared and bucked, reared and bucked and swung from side to side.  He wants to go back to the field as soon as he thinks he is done for the day! He did not used to be like this (I've had him 19 months) so I'm finding it frustrating. I tend to ignore the behaviour and reward him for standing still and he does not get to go back to the field while he is prancing about.  Is this just an age/stage thing he is going through? Is there anything more I can do to train him out of it? Thanks in advance


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## AdorableAlice (9 January 2016)

Your cob is being rude, in my hands he would be on the receiving end of a blue pipe.  However, most will not agree with that and I would recommend you get some help before you get hurt.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (9 January 2016)

Ask someone experienced to help you for a week, I have never hit a horse with a blue pipe, but if you let it go further he will become dangerous.
Do not ever give him treats, ever. no need to reward him, he needs to learn discipline. You need to stop any fluffy bunny - ness.


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## Magnetic Sparrow (9 January 2016)

I do not ignore bad behaviour like that, although I agree with rewarding good behaviour. Assuming your cob knows the command for standing still, then ignoring the 'stand' command would result in discipline from me, not being left to have a tantrum until it is ready to stop. This kind of strop could be dangerous. 

In my experience this type of behaviour is a phase, an experiment to see if playing up will achieve the desired result. I totally agree that your chap should not get back to the field until he leads nicely. I have been known  to return the horse to where it started if it attempts bad behaviour during the journey between field and stable. I try never to reward bad behaviour it just reinforces that behaviour.

As AdorableAlice says, if you think the behaviour is more than you can cope with, get some help. Wear your hat! Buy or borrow a chain if necessary, but above all, be resolute.


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## AdorableAlice (9 January 2016)

Typical clever cob behaviour really, which many of us will have experienced at some point.

The last two I bought both had the same attitude - I'm off, please yourself if you want to come with me.

The reality is a horse that has not been correctly halter broken, so many are not, and the horse has no manners and does not give a hoot who it knocks over or stands on and so many people think this is normal behaviour and put up with it.

The Op's horse would be tied up and left to tantrum, being such a smart cob he will soon give up when he realises no one is pandering to him.


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## respectedpony driver (9 January 2016)

Not so adorable then!!!!!



AdorableAlice said:



			Your cob is being rude, in my hands he would be on the receiving end of a blue pipe.  However, most will not agree with that and I would recommend you get some help before you get hurt.
		
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## Mince Pie (9 January 2016)

respectedpony said:



			Not so adorable then!!!!!
		
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No but a bloody knowledgeable and experienced horsewoman!


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## Olliepoppy (9 January 2016)

Thanks for opinions. He used to stand good as gold and there is no bad behaviour once hes being led to the field he's as good as gold. Maybe I'm wrong for treating him when he's doing right but I don't think hitting him is the answer either.


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## Shay (9 January 2016)

As a long term cob owner I would tend to agree this is likely to be rude cob.  But it is worth having a think - has something upset him or frightened him so that he can't or won't tie up?  Could he have pulled back and hurt himself and now start to panic about being tied up?  The flip side to this is has he learned that if he pulls back something breaks and he can get free?  If any of this rings a possible bell what about an Idolo soft tie?  He can pull back pretty much as far as he likes and still not get free -but also not hurt himself.

Or could he just be very hungry? (most cobs are driven by their stomach's!) Would a haynet help?

I'm not a fan of hitting horses generally -although I absolutely accept it has its place correctly used.  But your lad needs his manners back and needs them quickly before someone gets hurt.


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## Cortez (9 January 2016)

Olliepoppy said:



			Thanks for opinions. He used to stand good as gold and there is no bad behaviour once hes being led to the field he's as good as gold. Maybe I'm wrong for treating him when he's doing right but I don't think hitting him is the answer either.
		
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Why not? It's probably how he was trained to behave in the first place, and it is certainly what will make him behave himself now. Rearing and kicking ARE NOT ALLOWED from a half ton animal and one swift whack at the right time will teach him what's what.


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## Fun Times (9 January 2016)

Afraid I am another in the blue pipe camp. In my experience, horses take the pi$$ in increments and if you don't nip this in the bud pronto it will escalate.


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## Olliepoppy (9 January 2016)

Cortez said:



			Why not? It's probably how he was trained to behave in the first place, and it is certainly what will make him behave himself now. Rearing and kicking ARE NOT ALLOWED from a half ton animal and one swift whack at the right time will teach him what's what.
		
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Ok so where would you hit him and what would be 'the right time'? Its not something that sits well with me but if that's what it takes to stop the behaviour then I'll give it a go (as most people seem to agree it's the best course of action) but I want to get it right


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## AdorableAlice (9 January 2016)

respectedpony said:



			Not so adorable then!!!!!
		
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Oh, I don't know, she looks pretty adorable to me.  Rear them right, be fair and consistent at all times and you will never ever have to get tough with a horse.  However, if you do have to get tough with a horse, make sure you do it quickly, you do it hard and you get the reason and the timing absolutely correct.

Very sadly for the horse, many of us buy badly reared and handled horses and reap the not so pleasant rewards.  Think about it, 650kg for the average cob, swings his rear end and smacks you up the wall.  Why did he do that ?, because he has been allowed to ignore his handler and their space.  It is not rocket science to teach any horse manners, it should be done from birth and maintained throughout the life of the horse.


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## AdorableAlice (9 January 2016)

Olliepoppy said:



			Ok so where would you hit him and what would be 'the right time'? Its not something that sits well with me but if that's what it takes to stop the behaviour then I'll give it a go (as most people seem to agree it's the best course of action) but I want to get it right
		
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Not need to hit him.  If I understand what you are saying, the cob is tied up and having a tantrum to be let go and returned to his field ?

I would just leave him tied up (safely of course and within reach) and let him get over himself.


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## EQUIDAE (9 January 2016)

Any horse that reared at, or kicked out at me would get the blue pipe treatment too. One short sharp smack and they will never try it again. I don't advocate beating the horse but this behaviour is dangerous and needs nipping in the bud before you get hurt.

I would also leave him tied up and let him get over himself - sometimes trying to calm them can make the behaviour worse.

Just to give you an idea of how polite a horse can be when handled firmly but fairly take a look at my boy - sec D stallion who has been in for 3 days and stabled next door to a mare... 

http://www.4shared.com/video/rCb7BqsTce/MOV_0262.html


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## ester (9 January 2016)

I don't imagine you have ever had to get tough with Alice cob AA. The other two, now . 

OP tie him to something fixed and leave him to his tantrum, he only gets untied when he stands.


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## Olliepoppy (9 January 2016)

EQUIDAE said:



			Any horse that reared at, or kicked out at me would get the blue pipe treatment too. One short sharp smack and they will never try it again. I don't advocate beating the horse but this behaviour is dangerous and needs nipping in the bud before you get hurt.

I would also leave him tied up and let him get over himself - sometimes trying to calm them can make the behaviour worse.

Just to give you an idea of how polite a horse can be when handled firmly but fairly take a look at my boy - sec D stallion who has been in for 3 days and stabled next door to a mare... 

http://www.4shared.com/video/rCb7BqsTce/MOV_0262.html

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Impressive video  my boy's manners are generally quite good, never pushes out of the stable, backs up and waits before getting his wee feed (torture for him as he's food daft!) leads politely etc


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## Magnetic Sparrow (9 January 2016)

It's great that you are only having issues with this one area, but nip the problem in the bud now and I think your boy will be the better for it. I am certain that consistent boundaries rigorously applied makes a happier and safer horse. The blue pipe or whatever is never used in anger and always applied at the minimum to achieve the necessary control. Cobs with no manners are scary and dangerous and it's good that the basics are in place for your chap - you just need to maintain them.

People say to me that I am so lucky that all my horses have been so well-mannered. It ain't luck, I take a lot of trouble to make sure that we understand each other.


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## EQUIDAE (9 January 2016)

I would like to add at this point that blue pipe is mentioned as it makes a great noise, not because it hurts lots. It does hurt, but it's not like hitting them with a broom handle, and hurts less than a crop - I know because I tried it on myself first...


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## Olliepoppy (9 January 2016)

So what exactly is blue pipe??


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## EQUIDAE (9 January 2016)

Olliepoppy said:



			So what exactly is blue pipe??
		
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It's what they use for water piping on the yard - yards usually have some lying around


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## Princess16 (9 January 2016)

Have read with this with interest.

I have one question when tying up a horse that tries to pull back what then? I had a situation once when my pony was tied to post and got spooked by a motorbike backfiring as it drove by, my pony pulled back, eyes wide and I must say it was scary. Luckily I was nearby so could release him with quick release knot but what would have happened if he had been left as has been suggested here? 

Hope OP you manage to sort this behaviour.  Agree it must be nipped in the bud although I am not a fan of hitting a horse other than a slap on nose which has to be at the exact precise time of him being rude.


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## Fun Times (9 January 2016)

OP, blue pipe is more formally known as alkathene.


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## EQUIDAE (9 January 2016)

A



Princess16 said:



			I have one question when tying up a horse that tries to pull back what then? I had a situation once when my pony was tied to post and got spooked by a motorbike backfiring as it drove by, my pony pulled back, eyes wide and I must say it was scary. Luckily I was nearby so could release him with quick release knot but what would have happened if he had been left as has been suggested here? 

Hope OP you manage to sort this behaviour.  Agree it must be nipped in the bud although I am not a fan of hitting a horse other than a slap on nose which has to be at the exact precise time of him being rude.
		
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Totally different situation between a scared horse and one having a tantrum.

I would use blue pipe but I would NEVER slap a horse on the nose - that's how you make a horse worse, or create a head shy horse. A slap on the shoulder or on the chest is far less likely to escalate things.


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## Cortez (9 January 2016)

Horses that pull back because they are frightened/panic: they are pulling back because they don't know how else to escape the scary situation. IF you know what you are doing, you can tap the horse on the bottom and send him forwards thus releasing the pressure. If the tie breaks at that point (as will happen with a baling twine tie), the horse learns to continue pulling until it gets free, thus reinforcing the pulling back behaviour. I've never understood the reasoning behind tying horses up with twine; I'd rather teach them to tie properly.


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## Princess16 (9 January 2016)

Cortez said:



			Horses that pull back because they are frightened/panic: they are pulling back because they don't know how else to escape the scary situation. IF you know what you are doing, you can tap the horse on the bottom and send him forwards thus releasing the pressure. If the tie breaks at that point (as will happen with a baling twine tie), the horse learns to continue pulling until it gets free, thus reinforcing the pulling back behaviour. I've never understood the reasoning behind tying horses up with twine; I'd rather teach them to tie properly.
		
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Thank you for that info.


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## Dry Rot (10 January 2016)

Cortez said:



			Horses that pull back because they are frightened/panic: they are pulling back because they don't know how else to escape the scary situation. IF you know what you are doing, you can tap the horse on the bottom and send him forwards thus releasing the pressure. If the tie breaks at that point (as will happen with a baling twine tie), the horse learns to continue pulling until it gets free, thus reinforcing the pulling back behaviour. I've never understood the reasoning behind tying horses up with twine; I'd rather teach them to tie properly.
		
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Excellent advice and perfect logic. Another who can't understand why so many tie with twine.

If a problem arises, training is setting up the scene to prompt the same bhaviour, but being prepared for it and applying counter measures so the horse realises that it won't work.

We use a rope halter, 30 foot of slippery yachting rope, and a firm turning post. A couple of turns of the rope around the post and you can control the pressure on the rope, if they pull back, with one hand. There is no abrupt stop and no danger. Horse learns that it is not stronger than you after all. I've never had to use alkathene and don't intend to.


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## Damnation (11 January 2016)

AdorableAlice said:



			Your cob is being rude, in my hands he would be on the receiving end of a blue pipe.  However, most will not agree with that and I would recommend you get some help before you get hurt.
		
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Couldn't agree more, when this behaviour manifests, they are far too big an animal to be messing about flinging their legs about when they fancy. They spend the guts of 20+ hours a day doing what they want so when you want to faff and fiddle, you want to faff and fiddle and he has to learn that.

Would you rather give him a slap and tell him to pack it in, or you or someone else gets kicked? I know which I would prefer. Other behaviours can be taken with a more gentle approach, over time etc. But a temper tantrum like this that could injure someone? Unacceptable. Totally.

My last mare was very opinionated like this, rearing in my face was a personal favourate. She got some choice slaps and some stern words. In the end I had a mare who didn't fear me, she respected me, was good to handle and knew where her boundries were. I wasn't beating her up by any stretch of the imagination, I was reprimanding DANGEROUS behaviour. 

OP - My advice would be to get help from someone experienced, wear a hat, and make sure noone, human or horse is stood hear him when tied up until the equilibrium is restored.


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## Fiona (11 January 2016)

Cobs can really test the boundaries 

My horse of a lifetime (welsh cob) was an opinionated so and so when he first arrived, would nap/rear when he didn't want to do something, and was a nightmare to lead (just charging off when he felt like it)..

He became fab because among other things my 16st rugby playing YO hacked him out for me once only, got after him (including an extremely well timed whack on his poll when he reared) and re taught his leading manners.

Tough love at the start meant he stayed with me for 20 years after this, and rarely put a foot wrong.

Nip the bad behavior in the bud OP soon as you can, best of luck...

Fiona


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## Olliepoppy (11 January 2016)

Got someone coming out to my little darling at the weekend to help, fingers crossed! Thanks everyone for your opinions


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## Fiona (11 January 2016)

So glad to hear this OP... good luck and keep us posted. 

Fiona


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## Leo Walker (11 January 2016)

Olliepoppy said:



			Got someone coming out to my little darling at the weekend to help, fingers crossed! Thanks everyone for your opinions 

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Good plan  Its all well and good saying give it a whack with blue pipe, but you need to know the moment to do it. Mine would like to be a thug and when I was very ill he got the better of me as I was just to weak and ill to deal with it. I'm better now and hes been fab for a while. I moved him New Years day and he lost the plot a bit, as he went from a part livery yard with a strict routine to a much busier DIY type yard, and he just couldnt cope intially. 

We had an issue last week bringing him in as he has to walk 400yds through another field to the yard, almost everything else was in and he was hysterical. He went up in the air waving his feet about and got a rollicking, came down and went up again with his feet waved at me, so he got an even bigger rollocking. He came down but was still wired, so we walked 20yds with him on high alert and bouncing about, but he kept the lead rope slack. I then stopped and he had a head rub and I let him graze. If I'd gotten after him for jiggling about then WW3 would have broken out. Theres a time for a big telling off, and a time for being soft and quiet and letting minor indiscretions go.

Someone else will be able to point that out and teach you much quicker than you will learn on your own 

And just for the record, I have a big, would like to be pig, HW cob, and I could beat him black and blue with a blue pipe and he wouldnt even bat an eyelid. He just couldnt care less. Yet a pull on his Dually and a verbal rollicking and he settles. Quite a lot of cobs that I've met and owned just couldnt give a flying fig if you wack them, but are surprisingly sensitive to other methods of telling off


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## Olliepoppy (13 January 2016)

Thank you frankiecob, it's so reassuring to know mine isn't the only one with attitude and I totally get what you are saying. That's why I'm getting someone in to help so I don't mess it up! Most of the time he is lovable and good natured but when he has something to say you don't half know about it!


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## Leo Walker (13 January 2016)

Same with mine, other people think its very funny and cute. I think hes a moron :lol: Hopefully you will get yours sorted soon. Getting a new instructor really turned things round for me, and I really should have known better! But sometimes things go wrong and a 3rd party is needed to get them back on the right track


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## EQUIDAE (13 January 2016)

Just to give you an example of how easily good behaviour can deteriorate...

My sec D stallion is the most polite horse I have ever known (I started 'the stallion appreciation thread' about him). Yesterday when my hubby was bringing him in he barged past him into the stable - he has never done this before. Seems that he didn't correct the behaviour as today he tried the exact same thing with me! Normally he will back off with a simple movement towards him, at most you need to say the word. Today he ignored me and tried to walk through me, I upped the pressure and told him back - ignored, did a backwards movement with the rope halter - ignored (this is the most I have ever had to do before), smacked him on the chest with the lead rope - ignored, he finally backed up when he got a boot in the chest. It took a further 20 minutes to de scale the pressure so he would back with just a forward movement from me... But the key is that not only did I correct the behaviour, I saw it through and then got him behaving as he normally would under normal conditions. It's no good saying 'bad boy' - as well as disciplining, you also have to correct/modify the behaviour.

I absolutely loathe getting physical with my horses but if they act dangerously I will come down on them like a ton of bricks.

We'll see if he is his usual well mannered self again tomorrow


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## Exploding Chestnuts (14 January 2016)

I had a fine rope training halter which my pony respected, he behaved when he had it on, but knew that he could take the pixel without it, it started when I had a bad knee and was not able to hold him, occasionally he would take off if he happened to decide that he wanted to, a big field of nice tasty grass was his choice, rather than his own field, I was usually ready for him, but he would wait til I was doing the gate, he was very intelligent. He also knew how to untie his rope, but always waited til I was out of sight. He never did anything then, just wandered about or picked at his haynet!
But when my little yearling lunged at me with her teeth, she caught me by surprise the first time, of course the next day she was semi rearing, with teeth and got a good rap on the neck with the lead rope, that stopped her. You have to stop them, and there are various ways depending in the horse, when giving them a "punishment" it should be short and sharp, with a thug like yours [he's not your little darling], get it sorted and get him to respect you. Do not go back to cuddles, be the strict herd leader he needs. He should learn to listen to you, and that when you reprimand him, he will know that he must do your bidding, make it clear what you want him to do, and he has to do it now. In the end you will both be happier with the situation. he may not be what you expected, behaviour wise, no matter, he still has to behave properly.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (14 January 2016)

Make sure you have a good long lead rope and give him a rap when he needs it, he is not a pet, he is disrespecting you, cut out the cuddles, be strict with him. No need to spend hours on ground handling every day, though it sounds as though both he and you need to be taught good ground handling, but every day he has to walk in hand while you walk at his shoulder, tie up for as long as you want, and walk back in hand to the field, go in to field and wait till you tie gate, then facing the gate with the horse, you remove headcollar, he must not attempt to kick you at any time.
Plenty of work will probably sort out some problems, also no sugar in his diet, no molasses / carrots / treats.
Fast Fibre is probably a good feed for a cob in light work,


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## JillA (14 January 2016)

Olliepoppy said:



			Ok so where would you hit him and what would be 'the right time'? Its not something that sits well with me but if that's what it takes to stop the behaviour then I'll give it a go (as most people seem to agree it's the best course of action) but I want to get it right
		
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It takes experience to get the intensity and timing right - and if you have that experience you wouldn't have the problem in the first place. It isn't about punishment (and fear which can set up self defence which makes it worse quite often) it's about respect, leadership and boundaries. 
Can you find someone off this list near you http://www.intelligenthorsemanship.co.uk/specialist-horse-training.html, most are not hugely expensive. Or someone with a reputation for having quiet well behaved horses? 
Good luck, when you do find how to have him on side you will have a very good bold horse - which you won't if you scare him


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## Exploding Chestnuts (14 January 2016)

The problem with blue pipe is that you have to carry it at all times which is not practical long term,  so if you are going to belt him, do it once and see what happens, but again, you need to be experienced to use it effectively! It is likely you might be a bit frightened of him, and you must get past that.


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## Olliepoppy (14 January 2016)

'little darling' was meant sarcastically! He does not get cuddles unless he is in dope on a rope mode. I am not scared of him and he leads at my shoulder, no pulling etc, he waits patiently at the gate to go in/out if the field. He also waits nicely to have his headcollar removed. I can move his feet any direction and he will back up on command. He has never tried to kick me, the worst he's done is to try to walk through me. I do not tolerate him getting pushy and shout/chest slap him and make him back up if he does try it. This behaviour has started since I started taking him out in the trailer. He really doesn't like it and now trembles in anticipation when I bring him down to the yard even if the trailer is nowhere in sight! I just dont know the best way to handle this particular behaviour as I genuinely think it originates from a fear/dislike so want to tackle it in the most appropriate way. I will look at the intelligent horsemanship list to see if there's anyone nearby and see how we get on with the behaviourist who is coming on Saturday


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## Exploding Chestnuts (14 January 2016)

Well this is a different problem, I would make sure he has to lead past the trailer every  day on his way back to the field, and also try to go different routes back to the field, give him his feed near the trailer, etc etc, I had a woman "horse whisperer" who massaged my boy, he would have done anything for a bum massage!
Try a month on Feedmark steady up, magnesium based calmer with herbs.
Have the trailer  serviced / checked over before using it, might be better to use a lorry if possible for a while.


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## Olliepoppy (14 January 2016)

I have brought him down to the trailer a few times and fed him in it then just taken him back to the field. He loads fine, and waits patiently to come out but stress poops and trembles in it. The maximum journey I've taken him on is 30 mins. Its a single trailer which is fully serviced and I drive it like a grandma! I've got him on magnesium added to some chaff. I only have one route back to the field but could certainly leave the trailer out for him to go past..


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## EQUIDAE (14 January 2016)

If the trailer isn't next to where he is walking to the field then it is unlikely to be causing the issue. You also say that the worst he has done is walked through you - that is totally unacceptable behaviour! I think its time you stopped making excuses for him and started looking at how your behaviour is facilitating him. I had my arm broken by a rude horse that barged through me...


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## jmd481 (15 January 2016)

My tb mare (sorry not a cob) had issues with being tied up.... she would stand and let me do whatever needed but once she had had enough she would pull back until something snapped I went through so many lead ropes it was rediculous...... I only have to make my voice slightly louder and usually she will behave (even if out in the field and she's being a bully) anyway we had sorted the tieing situation by plenty of time and patience it only really took my loud voice and bringing out the whip  (never used it I only ever placed it near her usually rested it against the wall) one day the farrier was out and I couldn't get there I was in hospital after having my little girl and for obvious reasons I forgot to tell my mum (more experienced than me) and obviously thought she had stopped acting like this..... how wrong was I........ half way through having her feet done she had an episode, she reversed back and wouldn't release my mum and farrier tried everything and the more they got involved the worse she become it resulted in her pulling down the wall of the stables, getting herself in a right state and scaring everybody around her....... them acting stupid when being tied up isn't acceptable in any way and I was so lucky that no one was hurt down to my horse wanting her own way....... I think you right to get experienced help, milly now ties up again fine and had no issues since (this was nearly 12months ago) but I'm still on my toes with her.


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## Olliepoppy (15 January 2016)

Gosh jmd481 that sounds awful! Glad you have got through it safely!


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## jojo5 (15 January 2016)

Get right on it, OP, as others have said. A few weeks ago, after 19 years together, my boy decided to rub himself against the haynet as I was tying it up. He has always been opinionated and I have always watched out for him throwing his weight about (literally!!) - it's only occasionally but still needs addressing after all this time.   In this particular instance, he moved forwards and started to position himself for rubbing his neck - and in seconds I was pinned up against the breeze block wall of the box by half a ton of solid cob. Normally, a sharp 'move back!' Will do it, but he was focused on itchiness, and I had to resort to a knee in the chest accompanied by a shout. I NEVER physically punish him unless the transgression is really serious, but this was really serious as I could have been crushed, and the behaviour in the OPs example could develop into something equally dangerous.


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