# Info needed - Livery gone bad



## Apizz2019 (3 August 2021)

Apologies for the vagueness of this post.

Has anyone rented a private yard from a farmer/landowner in this area and had issues - threats, violence, demands for monies outstanding when nothing is owed etc?

I believe this individuals modus operandi is to take on liveries in the hope of developing a relationship and when this doesn't happen, the individual turns nasty.

An incident has been logged with the police and the person has been spoken to, so hopefully that will draw matters to a close, however, there are concerns as to whether this obviously unhinged individual will take heed of the police warning.

Various concerning stories have come to light over the past 24 hours (including this individual supposedly shooting a liveries horse) yet the police have advised this individual has no prior with them.

The latest victim (a friend who has granted me permission to post this) is obviously very concerned and beside themselves with worry. 

This post isn't about wanting anyone to make a statement and put themselves in a difficult situation but more about the 'what next'. If you know this individual and had a similar experience, just how bad did it get, if at all - will it just blow over?

If you have any info, please pm me. All messages will be treated in the strictest of confidence.

Thanks in advance!


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## TotalMadgeness (3 August 2021)

When you say they take on liveries 'in the hope of developing a relationship', what do you mean? Sorry if I'm being thick just trying to understand...


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## Lammy (3 August 2021)

I live nearby to where your radius is. I know of a vile man who owns a yard and has liveries just one village above Whiston. Sounds like he works in a similar way to the man you describe, gets nasty when his advances are rejected.

But I don’t know that he owns any other land nearby that he rents out? Feel free to PM me as if it’s the same man then if you’re friend hasn’t left already then she really needs to.


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## Apizz2019 (3 August 2021)

TotalMadgeness said:



			When you say they take on liveries 'in the hope of developing a relationship', what do you mean? Sorry if I'm being thick just trying to understand...
		
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I didn't want to be blunt but he wants girlfriends, to have sex etc. He's not direct but that's what the end game is.


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## Apizz2019 (3 August 2021)

Lammy said:



			I live nearby to where your radius is. I know of a vile man who owns a yard and has liveries just one village above Whiston. Sounds like he works in a similar way to the man you describe, gets nasty when his advances are rejected.

But I don’t know that he owns any other land nearby that he rents out? Feel free to PM me as if it’s the same man then if you’re friend hasn’t left already then she really needs to.
		
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Thanks so much. I'll pm you.


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## TotalMadgeness (3 August 2021)

Apizz2019 said:



			I didn't want to be blunt but he wants girlfriends, to have sex etc. He's not direct but that's what the end game is.
		
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Yuk there are some seriously weird people about.


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## Apizz2019 (3 August 2021)

TotalMadgeness said:



			Yuk there are some seriously weird people about.
		
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Very and quite deranged and dangerous too, sadly.


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## Regandal (3 August 2021)

What a creep. I’d advise your friend to get out of there pronto.


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## Apizz2019 (3 August 2021)

Regandal said:



			What a creep. I’d advise your friend to get out of there pronto.
		
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She left this past weekend. Everything was fine, no issues at all, then the individual went nuclear.


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## Amymay (3 August 2021)

Sounds just awful 😱


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## Apizz2019 (3 August 2021)

Amymay said:



			Sounds just awful 😱
		
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It's horrendous. I'm just trying to gather as much info as possible to help my friend. Forewarned is forearmed....


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## shortstuff99 (3 August 2021)

There is a dodgy livery yards group on Facebook that might be worth posting on?


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## Apizz2019 (3 August 2021)

shortstuff99 said:



			There is a dodgy livery yards group on Facebook that might be worth posting on?
		
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I have and have had a few pm's which have been most helpful.


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## holeymoley (3 August 2021)

Has this been posted on the dodgy livery yards page on faceache? I think I seen a very similiar post last week.  

No advise though, other than to get yourself and horse out if there and hope that’s the last you hear of them.


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## Apizz2019 (3 August 2021)

holeymoley said:



			Has this been posted on the dodgy livery yards page on faceache? I think I seen a very similiar post last week. 

No advise though, other than to get yourself and horse out if there and hope that’s the last you hear of them.
		
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I posted this, this morning, on that page. 

My friend has left already.


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## Gloi (3 August 2021)

I hope you can get the police to take proper notice of this. I've known it happen too but fortunately in my youth 40+ years ago.


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## I'm Dun (3 August 2021)

Is this the one with all the german shepherd dogs? If so, hes well known in the area of behaving badly unfortunately. I'd just get out and not go back.


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## Apizz2019 (3 August 2021)

I'm Dun said:



			Is this the one with all the german shepherd dogs? If so, hes well known in the area of behaving badly unfortunately. I'd just get out and not go back.
		
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Yes, I think we're thinking of the same individual, sadly. 

My friend is out. All was okay but the trouble has started after her departure.


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## Apizz2019 (3 August 2021)

Gloi said:



			I hope you can get the police to take proper notice of this. I've known it happen too but fortunately in my youth 40+ years ago.
		
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I hope they do!


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## I'm Dun (3 August 2021)

Apizz2019 said:



			Yes, I think we're thinking of the same individual, sadly.

My friend is out. All was okay but the trouble has started after her departure.
		
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I had a lucky escape with him a few years back now. He is a very odd individual! The place is often empty for good reason. Your friend is the first time I've heard of it carrying on afterwards or there being a sexual element to it, so sounds like hes taken a shine to your friend and decided she might be vunerable enough to put up with it, or hes escalating his behaviour. I'm sorry this happened to her, but shes not the first person to have the wool pulled over her eyes and no doubt wont be the last sadly.


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## Apizz2019 (3 August 2021)

I'm Dun said:



			I had a lucky escape with him a few years back now. He is a very odd individual! The place is often empty for good reason. Your friend is the first time I've heard of it carrying on afterwards or there being a sexual element to it, so sounds like hes taken a shine to your friend and decided she might be vunerable enough to put up with it, or hes escalating his behaviour. I'm sorry this happened to her, but shes not the first person to have the wool pulled over her eyes and no doubt wont be the last sadly.
		
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I posted on a Facebook page earlier and I'm horrified by the messages I've received. It's far worse than this, although this is bad! 

I think this individual has scared a lot of people into silence. Sad really as something needs to happen. 

This individual is deranged and obviously thinks they're above the law! 

Thank you - I hope it will end peacefully, although I'm not confident it will.


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## lynz88 (3 August 2021)

Wow glad she got out but surprised it continued AFTER!  some people have no shame. I hope she is able to "disappear" so he can't find her and/or the police take it seriously. Years ago my brothers landlady went crazy. It got so bad that she was stalking my brother and my mom and she even found me on FB and sent me a nasty message (not sure what the point of that was as I was living over here for over 8 months at that point).


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## Sossigpoker (3 August 2021)

How many more people need to be murdered by stalkers before the police do something?


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## Apizz2019 (3 August 2021)

lynz88 said:



			Wow glad she got out but surprised it continued AFTER!  some people have no shame. I hope she is able to "disappear" so he can't find her and/or the police take it seriously. Years ago my brothers landlady went crazy. It got so bad that she was stalking my brother and my mom and she even found me on FB and sent me a nasty message (not sure what the point of that was as I was living over here for over 8 months at that point).
		
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The irony is, everything was fine during her time there and even when she left. 
But he went nuclear at her place of work 48 hours after. 
Very scary!


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## Amymay (3 August 2021)

Apizz2019 said:



			The irony is, everything was fine during her time there and even when she left.
But he went nuclear at her place of work 48 hours after.
Very scary!
		
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And he wasn’t arrested???


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## Apizz2019 (3 August 2021)

Sossigpoker said:



			How many more people need to be murdered by stalkers before the police do something?
		
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I know right. 

It's terrible and many think they're above the law, because in reality they actually are, or so it seems!


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## Dave's Mam (3 August 2021)

Blimey.


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## lynz88 (3 August 2021)

Apizz2019 said:



			The irony is, everything was fine during her time there and even when she left.
But he went nuclear at her place of work 48 hours after.
Very scary!
		
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OMG!  I have no words...really really hope this is taken seriously by police and that your friend stays safe.


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## DSB (3 August 2021)

There has just been a court case in Australia,the man was offering farm work to "backpackers",then pressuring them into having sex etc.The farm was remote,some girls had no means of escape.
he was found guilty,not sure if he has been sentanced yit.


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## Apizz2019 (3 August 2021)

Amymay said:



			And he wasn’t arrested???
		
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The police didn't respond to the 999 call as they were too busy.... Jokes on the victim it seems. 

They didn't even go to his house either. They phoned him and told him to stay away. 

Total joke!


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## Apizz2019 (3 August 2021)

lynz88 said:



			OMG!  I have no words...really really hope this is taken seriously by police and that your friend stays safe.
		
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I've just received a message to let me know this individual is planning a visit to her new yard this weekend. 

Bring it on I say, he'll be very sorry because he'll get more than he bargained for. 

Then the police will sit up and take notice, I'm quite sure!


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## lynz88 (3 August 2021)

DSB said:



			There has just been a court case in Australia,the man was offering farm work to "backpackers",then pressuring them into having sex etc.The farm was remote,some girls had no means of escape.
he was found guilty,not sure if he has been sentanced yit.
		
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There was a case in Ontario where a nurse was harassed/stalked by a doctor making advances. She had notified the police several times but they didn't do anything. I remember when they found her body.  Scary and very serious stuff tbh.


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## Apizz2019 (3 August 2021)

DSB said:



			There has just been a court case in Australia,the man was offering farm work to "backpackers",then pressuring them into having sex etc.The farm was remote,some girls had no means of escape.
he was found guilty,not sure if he has been sentanced yit.
		
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Horrendous 😟


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## Wishfilly (4 August 2021)

Apizz2019 said:



			I've just received a message to let me know this individual is planning a visit to her new yard this weekend.

Bring it on I say, he'll be very sorry because he'll get more than he bargained for.

Then the police will sit up and take notice, I'm quite sure!
		
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Unfortunately, I wouldn't rely on the police to do anything. This is not a dig at the police as such- they are very overstretched due to lack of funding and officers, and the "pingdemic" has made things worse. 

But often they won't take action until after an assault/crime has been committed. 

Hopefully, the new yard will be busy enough that this individual will be put off doing anything whilst your friend is there. But I would not rely on the police turning up in the moment.

I would inform them now that the threat has been made.


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## Annagain (4 August 2021)

I know someone who, when there were intruders at her farm, phoned the police and told them she was really worried as her husband had gone out to check on the noise armed with a shotgun. He hadn't, he was in the kitchen, but the police got there fast enough to catch the burglars red handed with their quad bike. Maybe your friend's new YO could "have a shotgun" when you call the police when he arrives.


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## Mrs. Jingle (4 August 2021)

We had a similar thing to Annagain with a neighbour who is renowned for terrorising all neighbours at one time or another. We found the Guards very little help other than going up to 'have a chat' with him 😠,  until I rang the emergency lien to tell them he was in my field brandishing a shot gun.... which he was. They did arrive very quickly and he was taken away but nothing was done at all. The Guards even told us he had a complaint sheet against him from other neighbours that covered two A4 pages!.

Eventually my eldest son had a quiet word with him (don't ask!)   that was last year and so far he is leaving us alone. these men are all bullies and need to be treated as such.


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## Birker2020 (4 August 2021)

The trouble is stalker like behaviour is just laughed off.  People don't realise how quickly it escalates.
The same with someone giving unwanted advances.  Just not acceptable, but nothing can be done unless its reported.


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## Apizz2019 (4 August 2021)

Wishfilly said:



			Unfortunately, I wouldn't rely on the police to do anything. This is not a dig at the police as such- they are very overstretched due to lack of funding and officers, and the "pingdemic" has made things worse.

But often they won't take action until after an assault/crime has been committed.

Hopefully, the new yard will be busy enough that this individual will be put off doing anything whilst your friend is there. But I would not rely on the police turning up in the moment.

I would inform them now that the threat has been made.
		
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My friend has informed them this morning. 

The problem is, this individual is unhinged. This modus operandi has been ongoing with various victims for many years but all, it seems have been too scared to report him. 

From what I've learned, they pay him monies in order for him to leave them alone, although that doesn't always resolve the situation. 

I've been contacted by someone whose friends horse was shot by this individual, or at least suspected to have been the culprit - the poor lady had to move home and has moved yards more than once as she is repeatedly discovered and it seems has nowhere to hide. 

A livery I know well who was on the yard I've moved from a few weeks back, messaged me to tell me her and her family were at this yard and their shetland pony was shot. But this was explained away by the deranged individual as possibly being rabbit hunters he'd given permission to be on his land - despite her never seeing anyone on his land or in the yard/around the horses during her whole time there. 

I'm not knocking the police, I know these types of crimes are very difficult to peruse but its sad that somebody has to get hurt before anything is done.


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## Apizz2019 (4 August 2021)

Annagain said:



			I know someone who, when there were intruders at her farm, phoned the police and told them she was really worried as her husband had gone out to check on the noise armed with a shotgun. He hadn't, he was in the kitchen, but the police got there fast enough to catch the burglars red handed with their quad bike. Maybe your friend's new YO could "have a shotgun" when you call the police when he arrives.
		
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I'm more worried the deranged individual has a firearms licence and has been accused of shooting an ex-liveries horse and is suspected to have shot another liveries pony.


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## Apizz2019 (4 August 2021)

Mrs Jingle said:



			We had a similar thing to Annagain with a neighbour who is renowned for terrorising all neighbours at one time or another. We found the Guards very little help other than going up to 'have a chat' with him 😠,  until I rang the emergency lien to tell them he was in my field brandishing a shot gun.... which he was. They did arrive very quickly and he was taken away but nothing was done at all. The Guards even told us he had a complaint sheet against him from other neighbours that covered two A4 pages!.

Eventually my eldest son had a quiet word with him (don't ask!)   that was last year and so far he is leaving us alone. these men are all bullies and need to be treated as such.
		
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Oh Mrs Jingle 😕 Glad to hear your sons 'quiet word' worked! 

Unfortunately, this is sometimes the only language these types understand!


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## Wishfilly (4 August 2021)

Apizz2019 said:



			My friend has informed them this morning.

The problem is, this individual is unhinged. This modus operandi has been ongoing with various victims for many years but all, it seems have been too scared to report him.

From what I've learned, they pay him monies in order for him to leave them alone, although that doesn't always resolve the situation.

I've been contacted by someone whose friends horse was shot by this individual, or at least suspected to have been the culprit - the poor lady had to move home and has moved yards more than once as she is repeatedly discovered and it seems has nowhere to hide.

A livery I know well who was on the yard I've moved from a few weeks back, messaged me to tell me her and her family were at this yard and their shetland pony was shot. But this was explained away by the deranged individual as possibly being rabbit hunters he'd given permission to be on his land - despite her never seeing anyone on his land or in the yard/around the horses during her whole time there.

I'm not knocking the police, I know these types of crimes are very difficult to peruse but its sad that somebody has to get hurt before anything is done.
		
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Don't want to "like" this, given the content. I am really sorry your friend has had to go through this, and I hope the police are able to help.


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## Apizz2019 (4 August 2021)

Birker2020 said:



			The trouble is stalker like behaviour is just laughed off.  People don't realise how quickly it escalates.
The same with someone giving unwanted advances.  Just not acceptable, but nothing can be done unless its reported.
		
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Exactly this. 

We have one very brave lady, another ex-livery, who has agreed to make a statement to the police.


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## Apizz2019 (4 August 2021)

Wishfilly said:



			Don't want to "like" this, given the content. I am really sorry your friend has had to go through this, and I hope the police are able to help.
		
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Me too! Thanks so much for your support, it is very much appreciated 😊


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## Pearlsasinger (4 August 2021)

Apizz2019 said:



			I'm more worried the deranged individual has a firearms licence and has been accused of shooting an ex-liveries horse and is suspected to have shot another liveries pony.
		
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How on earth has he still got a gun licence?


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## cauda equina (4 August 2021)

Apizz2019 said:



			I'm more worried the deranged individual has a firearms licence and has been accused of shooting an ex-liveries horse and is suspected to have shot another liveries pony.
		
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How on earth is someone with his history allowed to have a firearm?
Snap PaS!


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## Amymay (4 August 2021)

If he does turn up at the weekend phone the police immediately and tell them you think he may have a firearm.


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## Apizz2019 (4 August 2021)

Pearlsasinger said:



			How on earth has he still got a gun licence?
		
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Who knows - maybe because nothing has been proven?


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## Apizz2019 (4 August 2021)

cauda equina said:



			How on earth is someone with his history allowed to have a firearm?
Snap PaS!
		
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Because I don't think anything has been proven? 

I've just had a message from a local livery yard owner who told me he's had to collect two liveries from this place who were absolutely terrified, harassed, threatened etc. 

I'd suspect they didn't report it too!


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## Apizz2019 (4 August 2021)

Amymay said:



			If he does turn up at the weekend phone the police immediately and tell them you think he may have a firearm.
		
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I think it's highly likely he will get a shovel, or two, to the head if he turns up. But the police have been informed of his intentions and have advised to make a 999 call if he shows up.


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## Apizz2019 (4 August 2021)

UPDATE 

The silly man has just been to her new yard causing trouble. Thankfully she wasn't there but I hope, given that the police warned him and told him to stay away, that they now arrest him!


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## Amymay (4 August 2021)

Apizz2019 said:



			UPDATE

The silly man has just been to her new yard causing trouble. Thankfully she wasn't there but I hope, given that the police warned him and told him to stay away, that they now arrest him!
		
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Whaattt???  Did the YO call the police?


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## Apizz2019 (4 August 2021)

Amymay said:



			Whaattt???  Did the YO call the police?
		
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I believe so! My friend was in a meeting and switched her phone on to loads of missed calls from the yard owner.

She's also just called the police. If they don't arrest him, I'm going to shout from the rooftops and spend my day kicking up as much of a fuss as possible.

Couldn't make this up, seriously.

He's deranged!


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## Fransurrey (4 August 2021)

Bloody hell. I hope they now listen. Has your friend and the YO pointed out to the police that this man has a shotgun licence? They're pretty strict on it, but maybe the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing if you know what I mean??


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## Apizz2019 (4 August 2021)

Fransurrey said:



			Bloody hell. I hope they now listen. Has your friend and the YO pointed out to the police that this man has a shotgun licence? They're pretty strict on it, but maybe the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing if you know what I mean??
		
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Yes, she has. And also talked to them about the horse that was shot - the ex-livery/gf of the bloke. There was a thread about the incident on here and in the h&h news. 

This man is dangerous, he gives no shi**ts, like most psychos 😕


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## MiJodsR2BlinkinTite (4 August 2021)

I don't know where the area concerned is, but this guy sounds like he is some sort of paedophile??? Certainly he sound predatory and an intimidating sort of character.

If the police are involved in this and making enquiries, which is the case, yes?? - then I would really advise extreme caution as to what is put on social media.

Perhaps it might be the better course of action to stand back and let the police sort this sordid situation out.

Hoping this happens.

Stay safe everyone.


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## Frumpoon (4 August 2021)

Good god, I hope he doesn't have any intention of shooting her horse as 'punishment'

I'm not a million miles away from this area, if she needs to hide it away somewhere I'm sure we can think of a few places between us


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## Apizz2019 (4 August 2021)

MiJodsR2BlinkinTite said:



			I don't know where the area concerned is, but this guy sounds like he is some sort of paedophile??? Certainly he sound predatory and an intimidating sort of character.

If the police are involved in this and making enquiries, which is the case, yes?? - then I would really advise extreme caution as to what is put on social media.

Perhaps it might be the better course of action to stand back and let the police sort this sordid situation out.

Hoping this happens.

Stay safe everyone.
		
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He's a lonely person, not a paedophile. But he's a bully, end of, and cannot get away with this any longer. 

I hope the police will take action today and more people will come forward. 

I will likely remove my post on social media today, however, I've not named him, given a direct location, or named anyone, I've kept it as vague as possible but of course don't want to risk lack of action because of what I've written. 

Thank you for your kind words 😊


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## Annagain (4 August 2021)

MiJodsR2BlinkinTite said:



			I don't know where the area concerned is, but this guy sounds like he is some sort of paedophile??? Certainly he sound predatory and an intimidating sort of character.
		
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I don't think there's any suggestion children are involved?  Predatory and deeply disturbing, most definitely, but I'm not sure where you got paedophile from.


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## Apizz2019 (4 August 2021)

Frumpoon said:



			Good god, I hope he doesn't have any intention of shooting her horse as 'punishment'

I'm not a million miles away from this area, if she needs to hide it away somewhere I'm sure we can think of a few places between us
		
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I don't think so but given previous history which is coming to light, I think he's more deranged and dangerous that first thought, sadly. 

And you cannot reason with an unreasonable person, who obviously has some mental health issues. 

I hope he gets the help he needs, and before he harms or terrifies anyone else, human or animal. 

Thank you - you're very kind ❤️


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## Apizz2019 (4 August 2021)

Annagain said:



			I don't think there's any suggestion children are involved?  Predatory and deeply disturbing, most definitely, but I'm not sure where you got paedophile from.
		
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Agreed. In fact, younger ex-liveries who have been in touch with me, who have had issues but the root cause hadn't been because he was chasing their affections, as it the case with my friend.


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## CanteringCarrot (4 August 2021)

Even if you feel as though the police will do nothing (and you may be right), report and document everything. This could come in handy later. 

If there is nothing to actually charge someone with, it makes things difficult, and the police can't really take action. 

People like this often know where the boundaries are and how far they can push without triggering an actual charge/the legal system. It's horrible and I feel bad for those that are bullied like this. The bully himself, probably needs some psychiatric intervention.


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## Pearlsasinger (4 August 2021)

MiJodsR2BlinkinTite said:



			I don't know where the area concerned is, but this guy sounds like he is some sort of paedophile??? .
		
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What makes you think that?  These are adult women who have leased his yard, not children!


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## Apizz2019 (4 August 2021)

CanteringCarrot said:



			Even if you feel as though the police will do nothing (and you may be right), report and document everything. This could come in handy later.

If there is nothing to actually charge someone with, it makes things difficult, and the police can't really take action.

People like this often know where the boundaries are and how far they can push without triggering an actual charge/the legal system. It's horrible and I feel bad for those that are bullied like this. The bully himself, probably needs some psychiatric intervention.
		
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We have, everything is documented and reported. 

He does need help, for sure.


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## Gloi (4 August 2021)

I hope you can get as many of the ex liveries as possible to make statements to the police. If they know others are doing so it may make them brave enough to step forward.


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## Apizz2019 (4 August 2021)

Gloi said:



			I hope you can get as many of the ex liveries as possible to make statements to the police. If they know others are doing so it may make them brave enough to step forward.
		
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I hope so too! 

I hope that not only justice is served for his victims, but that he gets the help he clearly needs!


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## Lammy (4 August 2021)

Your poor friend I hope this man is sorted out soon! What a horrible situation to be in.
I should think this counts as stalking and harassment and the police should be taking this very seriously considering the recent case of the young lady, Grace 😕


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## Fjord (4 August 2021)

How awful, your friend must be very worried. I hope the police pay him a proper visit now that he has been to her new yard, it's terrible that nothing can be done until he actually breaks the law.


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## I'm Dun (4 August 2021)

Lammy said:



			Your poor friend I hope this man is sorted out soon! What a horrible situation to be in.
I should think this counts as stalking and harassment and the police should be taking this very seriously considering the recent case of the young lady, Grace 😕
		
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They dont though sadly. I've got first hand experience of it. The police rang them for a "chat" and all that did was escalate the behaviour. There's a video of me being assaulted, and they still didn't do anything. It was an absolutely terrifying period in my life and even months later I constantly check over my shoulder and rarely drive a direct route anywhere in case I am being followed.


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## Apizz2019 (4 August 2021)

Lammy said:



			Your poor friend I hope this man is sorted out soon! What a horrible situation to be in.
I should think this counts as stalking and harassment and the police should be taking this very seriously considering the recent case of the young lady, Grace 😕
		
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I really hope so. She sounded awful this morning when I spoke to her as she's not sleeping. Then he does this today. 

I feel so sorry for her.


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## Apizz2019 (4 August 2021)

I'm Dun said:



			They dont though sadly. I've got first hand experience of it. The police rang them for a "chat" and all that did was escalate the behaviour. There's a video of me being assaulted, and they still didn't do anything. It was an absolutely terrifying period in my life and even months later I constantly check over my shoulder and rarely drive a direct route anywhere in case I am being followed.
		
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Was this the same individual? 

I'm so sorry, that's just horrendous!!


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## Apizz2019 (4 August 2021)

Fjord said:



			How awful, your friend must be very worried. I hope the police pay him a proper visit now that he has been to her new yard, it's terrible that nothing can be done until he actually breaks the law.
		
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That's the scary thing. To what extent does one actually break the law for something to be done - does he need to hurt her physically or run her off the road, as I've heard he is a fan of trying?

The mind boggles!


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## maggiestar (4 August 2021)

Stalking and harrassment are crimes in themselves so I'm shocked at how often the police seem to stand back until people (usually women) get hurt. It's scary and disheartening. OP,  I hope your friend gets the assistance she needs, this man needs to be stopped


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## Apizz2019 (4 August 2021)

maggiestar said:



			Stalking and harrassment are crimes in themselves so I'm shocked at how often the police seem to stand back until people (usually women) get hurt. It's scary and disheartening. OP,  I hope your friend gets the assistance she needs, this man needs to be stopped
		
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I think they're the hardest crimes to manage but there does appear to be a distinct lack of action from the authorities in such cases. Possibly because they're so hard to bring to court/get the CPS to prosecute. Who knows but he does need to be stopped. 

Given what I've learned over the past 24 hours, from those with direct experience of this individual, I'm very scared for my friend. 

Thanks so much 🙂


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## southerncomfort (4 August 2021)

Lammy said:



			Your poor friend I hope this man is sorted out soon! What a horrible situation to be in.
I should think this counts as stalking and harassment and the police should be taking this very seriously considering the recent case of the young lady, Grace 😕
		
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It certainly sounds like harassment.

For the courts to recognise it as harassment, the victim has to firmly tell the person not to contact them again and block them on phone, email, SM etc.

If the person then continues to try and contact them then the police can take action.

I was lucky the police took it very seriously and the people concerned were served harassment orders.


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## Apizz2019 (4 August 2021)

southerncomfort said:



			It certainly sounds like harassment.

For the courts to recognise it as harassment, the victim has to firmly tell the person not to contact them again and block them on phone, email, SM etc.

If the person then continues to try and contact them then the police can take action.

I was lucky the police took it very seriously and the people concerned were served harassment orders.
		
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Glad yours was taken seriously! 

The police told this chap not to contact my friend, directly or indirectly, nor to visit her new yard, home etc, or he would be arrested. 

Despite today's visit to her new yard, up to this very minute, he's not been arrested and the police haven't even called my friend back. 

I know these cases are very hard but frankly, I'm a little shocked and disappointed in the lack of action. 

And this is exactly why these deranged individuals do this for many many years, because they are in fact above the law, or so it must seem to them.


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## Roasted Chestnuts (4 August 2021)

I feel sorry for your friend. It is a sad state of affairs that the police are doing nothing. However if your friend got a couple of guys to thrash him I’ll bet the police would be all over it. Wouldn’t be any less than he deserved. I know my brothers, my dad and a few of my male friends wouldn’t be long with someone like him, he’d get the thrashing of a lifetime and deserve every lick of it. Just a shame it would be then who were arrested while pieces of sh1t3 like this guy would get sympathy.


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## maggiestar (4 August 2021)

Get back onto the police OP. Mention Gracie Spinks, god rest her soul, if needs be. They are too complacent. If they need to be pushed and bullied a little bit then so be it.


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## catembi (4 August 2021)

Please, please keep at it!  Your poor friend.  I remember the case of Grace which has already been mentioned.  Awful.  I know that you're keeping good records - can you keep adding to them & regularly send to higher-ups in the police/your MP/women's protection-type group?


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## Apizz2019 (5 August 2021)

Cheeky Chestnut said:



			I feel sorry for your friend. It is a sad state of affairs that the police are doing nothing. However if your friend got a couple of guys to thrash him I’ll bet the police would be all over it. Wouldn’t be any less than he deserved. I know my brothers, my dad and a few of my male friends wouldn’t be long with someone like him, he’d get the thrashing of a lifetime and deserve every lick of it. Just a shame it would be then who were arrested while pieces of sh1t3 like this guy would get sympathy.
		
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He deserves rough justice for what he's put others and my friend through. 

I hope the police take action today. 🤞🤞


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## Apizz2019 (5 August 2021)

maggiestar said:



			Get back onto the police OP. Mention Gracie Spinks, god rest her soul, if needs be. They are too complacent. If they need to be pushed and bullied a little bit then so be it.
		
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She called them again last night but no response thus far.

I think something bad needs to happen before they take action and then refer themselves for their lack of action. Ironic!


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## Apizz2019 (5 August 2021)

catembi said:



			Please, please keep at it!  Your poor friend.  I remember the case of Grace which has already been mentioned.  Awful.  I know that you're keeping good records - can you keep adding to them & regularly send to higher-ups in the police/your MP/women's protection-type group?
		
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I don't think there is 'enough' at the moment to take any higher. But how much is enough? 

He was clearly told to stay away or face arrest, yet he's done exactly the opposite but yet not been arrested. 

I'm confused with how this works.


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## brighteyes (5 August 2021)

Apizz2019 said:



			My friend has informed them this morning.

The problem is, this individual is unhinged. This modus operandi has been ongoing with various victims for many years but all, it seems have been too scared to report him.

From what I've learned, they pay him monies in order for him to leave them alone, although that doesn't always resolve the situation.

I've been contacted by someone whose friends horse was shot by this individual, or at least suspected to have been the culprit - the poor lady had to move home and has moved yards more than once as she is repeatedly discovered and it seems has nowhere to hide.

A livery I know well who was on the yard I've moved from a few weeks back, messaged me to tell me her and her family were at this yard and their shetland pony was shot. But this was explained away by the deranged individual as possibly being rabbit hunters he'd given permission to be on his land - despite her never seeing anyone on his land or in the yard/around the horses during her whole time there.

I'm not knocking the police, I know these types of crimes are very difficult to peruse but its sad that somebody has to get hurt before anything is done.
		
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Shot eh? I am almost at the time of life I'd shoot the nutter myself. Life wouldn't be that long and it'd be a public service.


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## Amymay (5 August 2021)

This is from the UK government’s website.  Don’t know if it will be of any help.


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## Apizz2019 (5 August 2021)

brighteyes said:



			Shot eh? I am almost at the time of life I'd shoot the nutter myself. Life wouldn't be that long and it'd be a public service.
		
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I know right, I'm totally with you on this! 

Eurgh, it's just a horrid horrid situation to be in.


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## Apizz2019 (5 August 2021)

Amymay said:



			This is from the UK government’s website.  Don’t know if it will be of any help.

View attachment 77038

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You're a gem ❤️ Thank you, I will pass this on to my friend!


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## brighteyes (5 August 2021)

Does nobody know anyone who could go and have a quiet word with him. This is terrifying.


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## Apizz2019 (5 August 2021)

brighteyes said:



			Does nobody know anyone who could go and have a quiet word with him. This is terrifying.
		
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I think most are terrified of him, that's the issue.


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## Gloi (5 August 2021)

Is there anyone willing to film him if he comes to the yard?


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## Apizz2019 (5 August 2021)

Gloi said:



			Is there anyone willing to film him if he comes to the yard?
		
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Yes, I'm ready to film him as I'm moving to the same yard tomorrow and am waiting for his weekend visit that he's told someone he's going to do. 

I'll also have a large shovel to hand hopefully! 

He doesnt scare me - I was married to one just like him for 14 years.


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## teacups (5 August 2021)

What has made him stop with previous targets? Getting another target? Or something else?


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## Red-1 (5 August 2021)

I would ask your friend to make a complaint to the Police. She would need to speak with the Inspector to do this. They don't like getting complaints and she will likely get more action.

It is possible that they have taken some action, and then they would be able to tell her this when she goes in.

It is also possible that they will take the action between the time she arranges to go in, and when she arrives. Then they will have something to tell her to avoid the complaint actually going in 

I doubt it is that they don't want to help, but they are so short staffed that they are running round. A complaint would help them run in the right direction for your friend.


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## OldNag (5 August 2021)

Nothing helpful to add other than it must be a terrifying situation ro be in. I hope something can be done about him.


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## Apizz2019 (5 August 2021)

teacups said:



			What has made him stop with previous targets? Getting another target? Or something else?
		
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He hasn't. He continues with them all apparently, though the occurrences have reduced.

One lady contacted me who had been at his yard almost 10 years ago, saying that he swerved onto her side of the road last week trying to 'run her off the road'.

Needless to say, she didn't report it either.

The lady who had a relationship with him, whose horse was shot, had to move house and has just left another yard after this man has struck up a handyman relationship with the yard owner.

He's dangerous. And clever and calculating....

I just can't get my head around that he's not been to prison or been prosecuted for this stalker and harassing behaviour  already.


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## Roasted Chestnuts (5 August 2021)

Apizz2019 said:



			He hasn't. He continues with them all apparently, though the occurrences have reduced.

One lady contacted me who had been at his yard almost 10 years ago, saying that he swerved onto her side of the road last week trying to 'run her off the road'.

Needless to say, she didn't report it either.

The lady who had a relationship with him, whose horse was shot, had to move house and has just left another yard after this man has struck up a handyman relationship with the yard owner.

He's dangerous. And clever and calculating....

I just can't get my head around that he's not been to prison or been prosecuted for this stalker and harassing behaviour  already.
		
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In surprised he hasn’t had a kicking. Maybe the rules are different where you are but up here that wouldn’t be tolerated. If the police didn’t do anything the males of the persons family would. Gun licence or no gun licence.

If he is doing this to multiple people then to me there is no clear finger pointing if someone did teach him a lesson


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## Apizz2019 (5 August 2021)

Red-1 said:



			I would ask your friend to make a complaint to the Police. She would need to speak with the Inspector to do this. They don't like getting complaints and she will likely get more action.

It is possible that they have taken some action, and then they would be able to tell her this when she goes in.

It is also possible that they will take the action between the time she arranges to go in, and when she arrives. Then they will have something to tell her to avoid the complaint actually going in 

I doubt it is that they don't want to help, but they are so short staffed that they are running round. A complaint would help them run in the right direction for your friend.
		
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They are short staffed, I absolutely get that and know what a difficult job they have. 

My friend actually worked for the police for many years, the same force, so has a good understanding of how it works. 

However, they have not so much as even called her back. And that is not good enough, no matter how short staffed. She's terrified and hasn't slept for days.

I hope he turns up at the new yard this weekend, as he's threatened to do, as I will be there and will call 999 immediately and use necessary force.


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## Apizz2019 (5 August 2021)

OldNag said:



			Nothing helpful to add other than it must be a terrifying situation ro be in. I hope something can be done about him.
		
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Thank you, it is terrible. 😔


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## Apizz2019 (5 August 2021)

Cheeky Chestnut said:



			In surprised he hasn’t had a kicking. Maybe the rules are different where you are but up here that wouldn’t be tolerated. If the police didn’t do anything the males of the persons family would. Gun licence or no gun licence.

If he is doing this to multiple people then to me there is no clear finger pointing if someone did teach him a lesson
		
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The mind boggles, I just cannot understand how he has got away with this behaviour for so long.

I don't know every detail but know enough to be confident that this is his modus operandi and has been for many years.

It needs to stop, one way or another.


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## Pearlsasinger (5 August 2021)

maggiestar said:



			Get back onto the police OP. Mention Gracie Spinks, god rest her soul, if needs be. They are too complacent. If they need to be pushed and bullied a little bit then so be it.
		
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Also take it higher up the police, ask to speak to the duty sergeant or the duty inspector, depending on how high you have been previously.  If necessary contact the Police Commissioner for the area.  Do not be fobbed off by the telephone answerer.

I am suprised that the visit to the new yard wasn't considered to be 'behaviour likely to cause a breach of the peace', so it makes me wonder if whoever YO spoke to actually passed the message on to the right officer.


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## Apizz2019 (5 August 2021)

Pearlsasinger said:



			Also take it higher up the police, ask to speak to the duty sergeant or the duty inspector, depending on how high you have been previously.  If necessary contact the Police Commissioner for the area.  Do not be fobbed off by the telephone answerer.

I am suprised that the visit to the new yard wasn't considered to be 'behaviour likely to cause a breach of the peace', so it makes me wonder if whoever YO spoke to actually passed the message on to the right officer.
		
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My friend also called it in so the police are well aware he didn't heed their warning and blatantly doesnt give two hoots about the law. 

What does it take for action to be taken? 

I fear she or her horses will be hurt before they sit up and take notice. 

Or me, or someone else, is going to step in and go too far and end up in trouble.


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## Frumpoon (5 August 2021)

Just checking this is Northants right?


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## Apizz2019 (5 August 2021)

Frumpoon said:



			Just checking this is Northants right?
		
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Yes Northants.


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## Gloi (5 August 2021)

Can you do your best to get all these other people who have not reported him to make written statements to the police.


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## Apizz2019 (5 August 2021)

Gloi said:



			Can you do your best to get all these other people who have not reported him to make written statements to the police.
		
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Yes, we're trying. But most thus far, bar one, are too scared to.


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## southerncomfort (5 August 2021)

Apizz2019 said:



			I don't think there is 'enough' at the moment to take any higher. But how much is enough?

He was clearly told to stay away or face arrest, yet he's done exactly the opposite but yet not been arrested.

I'm confused with how this works.
		
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This slightly confuses me.

My harassers were issued with  what I think was called a part 1 harassment warning.  As above, they were told not to contact me or my family or my work colleagues and to stay away from my home, place of work and the place my horses were kept.  Contravention would mean immediate arrest and a charge of harassment.

I think your friend should check with the police whether they issued an informal warning or an official one.  If it was official then he should have been arrested.

If it was informal I'd be asking at what point they can issue an official harassment warning.

What a nightmare for your poor friend!


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## Apizz2019 (5 August 2021)

southerncomfort said:



			This slightly confuses me.

My harassers were issued with  what I think was called a part 1 harassment warning.  As above, they were told not to contact me or my family or my work colleagues and to stay away from my home, place of work and the place my horses were kept.  Contravention would mean immediate arrest and a charge of harassment.

I think your friend should check with the police whether they issued an informal warning or an official one.  If it was official then he should have been arrested.

If it was informal I'd be asking at what point they can issue an official harassment warning.

What a nightmare for your poor friend!
		
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Glad I'm not the only one who is confused! 

He had a formal warning, he was told clearly he was not to attempt to contact my friend directly, indirectly, visit any premises she was at and he had no business to be there etc. If he contacted her or visited her new yard, home etc, then he would be arrested. 

But that's not quite how it seems to have played out as he's not been arrested!


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## Red-1 (5 August 2021)

Apizz2019 said:



			They are short staffed, I absolutely get that and know what a difficult job they have.

My friend actually worked for the police for many years, the same force, so has a good understanding of how it works.

However, they have not so much as even called her back. And that is not good enough, no matter how short staffed. She's terrified and hasn't slept for days.

I hope he turns up at the new yard this weekend, as he's threatened to do, as I will be there and will call 999 immediately and use necessary force.
		
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I never said it was good enough, it clearly isn't, hence me saying to make a complaint. My further point was that, if she makes an appointment to go make a complaint, that will likely bump her issue into focus.


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## Apizz2019 (5 August 2021)

Red-1 said:



			I never said it was good enough, it clearly isn't, hence me saying to make a complaint. My further point was that, if she makes an appointment to go make a complaint, that will likely bump her issue into focus.
		
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I know you didn't, I'm trying to sympathise with their cause as they are so stretched and doing a wonderful job in most circumstances, but have failed my friend terribly on this occasion, in my opinion. 

I think she is going to escalate today.


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## southerncomfort (5 August 2021)

Apizz2019 said:



			Glad I'm not the only one who is confused!

He had a formal warning, he was told clearly he was not to attempt to contact my friend directly, indirectly, visit any premises she was at and he had no business to be there etc. If he contacted her or visited her new yard, home etc, then he would be arrested.

But that's not quite how it seems to have played out as he's not been arrested!
		
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Thats shocking to be honest.

I'm a big supporter of our police forces but they really let women down over and over again.


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## Cinnamontoast (5 August 2021)

southerncomfort said:



			I'm a big supporter of our police forces but they really let women down over and over again.
		
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When I hear that there are 6 officers covering a population of 110K spread over a 30 minute drive from one end to the other, only one of whom carries a taser and with luck, two can put on blues and twos, it puts the situation into perspective.

I know it costs, but I’m going to suggest that your friend requests a non molestation order which carries power of arrest. She definitely needs to keep escalating, by all means complain, the relevant officer/s WILL be investigated.


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## Lammy (5 August 2021)

I'm Dun said:



			They dont though sadly. I've got first hand experience of it. The police rang them for a "chat" and all that did was escalate the behaviour. There's a video of me being assaulted, and they still didn't do anything. It was an absolutely terrifying period in my life and even months later I constantly check over my shoulder and rarely drive a direct route anywhere in case I am being followed.
		
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That is a terrible thing to have to go through, so sorry you had to put up with that 😞 And thats the worry if the police aren’t forceful enough at the right time then I can see how it would escalate matters instead of actually helping.



Apizz2019 said:



			Glad I'm not the only one who is confused!

He had a formal warning, he was told clearly he was not to attempt to contact my friend directly, indirectly, visit any premises she was at and he had no business to be there etc. If he contacted her or visited her new yard, home etc, then he would be arrested.

But that's not quite how it seems to have played out as he's not been arrested!
		
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As others have said, tell her she needs to get her complaints in. If she fears for her life (which she is right to be) then she needs to tell the police that directly. Definitely not the time to be playing down the need for help. Even if they don’t do anything right away, it should help in the long run having those sorts of notes against his name.
Although this is Northants police were talking about 🤦🏼‍♀️


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## Apizz2019 (5 August 2021)

southerncomfort said:



			Thats shocking to be honest.

I'm a big supporter of our police forces but they really let women down over and over again.
		
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They do but I guess do have their hands tied and are very thin on the ground. 

And its no secret, that's why so many people get away with things and just carry on swanning about, clearly above the law.


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## Apizz2019 (5 August 2021)

Lammy said:



			That is a terrible thing to have to go through, so sorry you had to put up with that 😞 And thats the worry if the police aren’t forceful enough at the right time then I can see how it would escalate matters instead of actually helping.



As others have said, tell her she needs to get her complaints in. If she fears for her life (which she is right to be) then she needs to tell the police that directly. Definitely not the time to be playing down the need for help. Even if they don’t do anything right away, it should help in the long run having those sorts of notes against his name.
Although this is Northants police were talking about 🤦🏼‍♀️
		
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It's so scary, I'd hate to be her right now. She was scared when he turned up at her workplace, much more so now that we know he has history and is actually quite a nasty individual. 

She's logging everything, so hopefully that will help somewhat further down the line! 😊


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## Ruftysdad (5 August 2021)

Apizz2019 said:



			They do but I guess do have their hands tied and are very thin on the ground.

And its no secret, that's why so many people get away with things and just carry on swanning about, clearly above the law.
		
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Get her to contact your MP and copy in the Police Commissioner. The police's first duty is protection of life and property. They are clearly not doing this


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## Apizz2019 (5 August 2021)

Ruftysdad said:



			Get her to contact your MP and copy in the Police Commissioner. The police's first duty is protection of life and property. They are clearly not doing this
		
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Thank you, I'll pass this on to her.


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## Sossigpoker (5 August 2021)

Apizz2019 said:



			Thank you, I'll pass this on to her.
		
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I agree. A massive failure from the police to protect the public. You shouldn't have to but I would use words like "I'm a woman on my own , I feel extremely vulnerable and in fear for my safety ".


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## Sossigpoker (5 August 2021)

I had a violent stalker in London nearly 20 years ago and at first the police just had the attitude that he's my ex boyfriend and I need to deal with it myself. I had to get the university involved before they'd do anything and then it turned out that he was wanted for something very serious and the police said that I should change my name and move as far as possible !


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## Apizz2019 (5 August 2021)

Sossigpoker said:



			I agree. A massive failure from the police to protect the public. You shouldn't have to but I would use words like "I'm a woman on my own , I feel extremely vulnerable and in fear for my safety ".
		
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Agreed and thank you 😊


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## Apizz2019 (5 August 2021)

Sossigpoker said:



			I had a violent stalker in London nearly 20 years ago and at first the police just had the attitude that he's my ex boyfriend and I need to deal with it myself. I had to get the university involved before they'd do anything and then it turned out that he was wanted for something very serious and the police said that I should change my name and move as far as possible !
		
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Gosh, sorry to hear this but sounds like you had a lucky escape!!


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## Sossigpoker (5 August 2021)

Apizz2019 said:



			Gosh, sorry to hear this but sounds like you had a lucky escape!!
		
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I still don't have any clear photos of myself online although I've changed my name twice and have different hair etc!


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## GrassChop (5 August 2021)

Sossigpoker said:



			I still don't have any clear photos of myself online although I've changed my name twice and have different hair etc!
		
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Jesus.  I am so sorry for you and any other person that has had or is having to go through this. I cannot even imagine how awful it must be.

This needs to stop. We are all in this together. I am not near Northants but if there is anything I can do, I am willing to do so if it will help.


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## Apizz2019 (5 August 2021)

Sossigpoker said:



			I still don't have any clear photos of myself online although I've changed my name twice and have different hair etc!
		
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That's terrible, such is the effect stalking and harassment has on the victims.


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## Apizz2019 (5 August 2021)

GrassChop said:



			Jesus.  I am so sorry for you and any other person that has had or is having to go through this. I cannot even imagine how awful it must be.

This needs to stop. We are all in this together. I am not near Northants but if there is anything I can do, I am willing to do so if it will help.
		
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Thank you - you're a gem ❤️


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## catembi (5 August 2021)

I am not far from Northants and always have a space in my private, not overlooked fields behind my house if needed, even if in the middle of the night. I also have a lorry.


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## Apizz2019 (5 August 2021)

catembi said:



			I am not far from Northants and always have a space in my private, not overlooked fields behind my house if needed, even if in the middle of the night. I also have a lorry.
		
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Thanks so much ❤️ That's very kind and if needed, I'm sure she would take you up on that. 

Everyone has been so lovely and helpful, I can't tell you how much I appreciate it.


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## Apizz2019 (8 August 2021)

Further update.. ... 

He wasn't arrested, sadly, but the police did call to invite him in for a voluntary interview. 

Not more than an hour after he spoke with the police, he visited a garage where my friend had work done on her lorry, for the second time, and confirmed what we suspected.... in that he has grand delusions of a romance with my friend. 

The police were called again and have finally taken a statement from my friend, and others he has visited, but still no arrest, just the voluntary interview which is confirmed for this coming week. 

It beggars belief that this individual not more than an hour after speaking with the police, again ignored what the police had told him. It further beggars belief that he wasn't arrested as, for the second time in less than a week, he'd done exactly the opposite of what the police had told him. 

I hope he shows for the voluntary interview and this matter is put to bed swiftly, although I can't say I'm feeling too positive about this happening, given there are clearly no immediate repercussions for harrassment /stalking....and he knows this!


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## southerncomfort (8 August 2021)

At this point I would definitely be engaging with local MP and police crime commissioner.

Their is no way of knowing how far he'll take this and their is no way of knowing how dangerous he is.  Its not OK to leave a woman feeling frightened and vulnerable.

I'm really worried for your friend.


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## Tiddlypom (8 August 2021)

As he is still carrying on, this will have to be escalated sharpish to make an official complaint to the police re their handling.

They may well be woefully understaffed, but this chap can't be allowed to carry like this.

Echo southerncomfort's suggestion of MP and PCC too.


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## Pearlsasinger (8 August 2021)

If your friend hasn't yet made an appointment to make a formal complaint, she should do that immediately.  She needs action to be taken swiftly.


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## Roasted Chestnuts (8 August 2021)

If the police won’t do it and they don’t listen to a complaint then just get someone to have a word by hand with him.

Absolutely disgusting behaviour from the police. I’d be screaming this from the heavens and including MP councillors and local newspapers


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## Regandal (8 August 2021)

Does your local police force have a fb page, lots do?  I’d be posting on there, nothing like a bit of exposure to get things moving……


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## cumbriamax (8 August 2021)

Phone up and complain to the Discipline and Standards department or whatever its called these days. This Not good enough. Don't bother with your local police station to complain go straight to the complaints department.


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## Velcrobum (8 August 2021)

Has this man always been in the Nothants area or did he move from the north??


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## Apizz2019 (9 August 2021)

Thanks all - my friend is considering how to move forward and what to do. 

We're hoping today marks the end of this nightmare! Everything crossed! 🤞🤞

But the police do need act, that's the frustrating part. I know they're stretched and up against it and I guess to a certain extent, have to 'pick and choose' what they deal with and what is a priority. 

My concern is that he's been allowed to get away with this twice now, with no repercussions and no action from the police, despite them telling him, and my friend, otherwise. 

I'll keep you updated.


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## Apizz2019 (9 August 2021)

Velcrobum said:



			Has this man always been in the Nothants area or did he move from the north??
		
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I've no idea, as far as I know he's from Northants.


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## Apizz2019 (9 August 2021)

Regandal said:



			Does your local police force have a fb page, lots do?  I’d be posting on there, nothing like a bit of exposure to get things moving……
		
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They do but I don't think my friend wants to make a song and dance about it on social media. 

She's very worried that public exposure may tip this individual over the edge. 

I'd say he's already over the edge, based on his behaviour......


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## Amymay (9 August 2021)

What’s happening today that could be the ‘end’ of things?


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## Apizz2019 (9 August 2021)

Amymay said:



			What’s happening today that could be the ‘end’ of things?
		
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He's being interviewed by the police today.


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## onemoretime (9 August 2021)

catembi said:



			I am not far from Northants and always have a space in my private, not overlooked fields behind my house if needed, even if in the middle of the night. I also have a lorry.
		
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What a lovely kind gesture.


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## Velcrobum (9 August 2021)

Apizz2019 said:



			He's being interviewed by the police today.
		
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I hope he turns up for the interview!!


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## Apizz2019 (9 August 2021)

Velcrobum said:



			I hope he turns up for the interview!!
		
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Exactly my thoughts!! 

I bet he will, to be the compliant individual on the face of it....


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## Darkly_Dreaming_Dex (9 August 2021)

Def keep pestering your MPand PCC but also contact the local firearms dept & ask them to investigate as if his guns get removed then that would be start - it’s so very hard to get and keep a license so it should also be straightforwards to lose one too


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## Apizz2019 (9 August 2021)

I give up! 

He's been for his voluntary interview and has basically spun a yarn to say that he's chasing her for monies owed. The police believe him and have told my friend as much. 

They've also advised there isn't enough evidence to do anything about his behaviour and the harrassment thus far. 

This man also asked if he is allowed to visit my friends place of work if he has business there, to which they've said yes!

He has no business there! 

I'm flabbergasted! 

She is making a formal complaint today. 

I have no words.


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## Amymay (9 August 2021)

Bloody hell


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## Apizz2019 (9 August 2021)

Amymay said:



			Bloody hell
		
Click to expand...

I have no words but it's not good enough.


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## Velcrobum (9 August 2021)

Apizz2019 said:



			I give up!

He's been for his voluntary interview and has basically spun a yarn to say that he's chasing her for monies owed. The police believe him and have told my friend as much.

They've also advised there isn't enough evidence to do anything about his behaviour and the harrassment thus far.

This man also asked if he is allowed to visit my friends place of work if he has business there, to which they've said yes!

He has no business there!

I'm flabbergasted!

She is making a formal complaint today.

I have no words.
		
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Sadly I expected he would come up with something plausible to the Police. This type of person will manipulate and twist anything. Your friend needs to document absolutely every interaction with him the more evidence the better. Does she have a Gopro or similar that she could wear as a body cam ready to be switched on if she spots him nearby??


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## southerncomfort (9 August 2021)

Sweet Jesus!

Your poor friend, this is awful.  

Below is how to contact the Northamptonshire PCC.

https://www.police.uk/pu/policing-i...ime-commissioner-for-northamptonshire-police/


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## Bionic Boy (9 August 2021)

Sadly enough this is probably part of the reason people have not reported him before.  Not hopeful to get anything sorted and don't want to antagonise him.


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## Leandy (9 August 2021)

Absolutely complain, complain, complain until they take more notice.  In your friend's situation, I would also consider taking my own legal advice from a solicitor.  Harassment etc is not just a criminal issue but also a civil issue and you can take your own action to get a court order if the police will not act.  This can be done very quickly if need be.  The police are also more likely to take your friend seriously if she has a lawyer acting for her.  It is a shame if she has to do this at her own expense but it may give her peace of mind and help her feel more in control of the situation.


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## Roasted Chestnuts (9 August 2021)

The police are useless. It’s becoming more and more obvious in this country. Women die but they don’t give two flying f@£k$ about it. Policemen murder women and they just squirm and deflect.

I have friends who are police officers and I mean them no personal disrespect however the system is severely broken. I’d just be taking matters in to my own hands and spin a yarn of my own. Oh mr officer he walked into the room as I was swinging my baseball bat/golf club practicing. Shame I knocked his block off but it was just an accident 😢🧐🧐

In all seriousness a restraining order may be the way to go. Then he cannot visit work home yard etc if one could be obtained. But I’d be going to the papers and blowing it all up and citing that poor young woman who was killed so recently. The Police hate bad press.


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## misst (9 August 2021)

I have just caught up with this!! I am not especially surprised - shortstaffing or no it is just beyond the pale that they will do nothing. The man is obviously plausable and confident which is of course why this keeps happening. It is not because the victims are stupid it is because he just crafty and manipulative way above the "norm". 
I have nothing to add to help but sending deep sympathy to all victims of this sort of thing and hoping your friend is able to find someone to listen very soon.


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## New2this (9 August 2021)

Go to a solicitor (as advised above). Get them to write a scary letter. Ask solicitor if they can mention costs (lost time at work, doctors bills, etc etc). Give him a scare and let him know it might cost him. Seems like money is important to him.

Very sad about police. As said before, we live in a deeply misogynistic world. That man in Birmingham getting out of prison so early after murdering his girlfriend (rough sex defence 🤢🤢🤢) turns my bloody stomach.

Hope your friends ok.


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## CanteringCarrot (9 August 2021)

But even then, there are proper (legal) channels to go through when someone owes you money. You don't just follow them around and turn up at their new yard, place of work, etc. So, if the police really believed this guy, they should've at least said that and directed him toward the proper channels otherwise he could border (well, he's already there, but anyway) on harassment.

Weird.


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## TheOldTrout (9 August 2021)

Only just seen this, how horrifying. I'm fairly nearby if she needs anything, don't have any land for horses but could offer her a bolt-hole if needed.


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## Fransurrey (9 August 2021)

CanteringCarrot said:



			But even then, there are proper (legal) channels to go through when someone owes you money. You don't just follow them around and turn up at their new yard, place of work, etc. So, if the police really believed this guy, they should've at least said that and directed him toward the proper channels otherwise he could border (well, he's already there, but anyway) on harassment.

Weird.
		
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My thoughts too. Poor girl.


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## Baywonder (9 August 2021)

Apizz2019 said:



			They've also advised there isn't enough evidence to do anything about his behaviour and the harrassment thus far.
		
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This whole situation is absolutely unbelievable! 

This may sound like an extreme suggestion, but what about one of those personal tiny button cameras that can be worn on clothing?  Just thinking if this maniac tries to pull another stunt - if your friend had one of these on her person it may well give the police the evidence they need.

I also do think a solicitor is a good suggestion too.  

I am so sorry your friend is going through this.


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## wills_91 (9 August 2021)

Cheeky Chestnut said:



			In surprised he hasn’t had a kicking. Maybe the rules are different where you are but up here that wouldn’t be tolerated. If the police didn’t do anything the males of the persons family would. Gun licence or no gun licence.

If he is doing this to multiple people then to me there is no clear finger pointing if someone did teach him a lesson
		
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Are you in Scotland by any chance?!

I've just caught up with this and I'm absolutely seething. If the police will do nothing - and I'm sorry I'm not buying the to busy, be much busier when they are dealing with a murder - then a few big guys should be paying him a visit and would have happened long ago round here. How absolutely devastating for his victims and the trauma this can cause can be life changing. I would not be letri g this drop, go as high up as you can until something is done.


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## Apizz2019 (9 August 2021)

Velcrobum said:



			Sadly I expected he would come up with something plausible to the Police. This type of person will manipulate and twist anything. Your friend needs to document absolutely every interaction with him the more evidence the better. Does she have a Gopro or similar that she could wear as a body cam ready to be switched on if she spots him nearby??
		
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She's called to make a formal complaint. I think she wanted to gather her thoughts and have time to think about it but she's approached it as this not being a victim led investigation etc. 

We've just discussed a buttonhole camera, just in case he should turn up at her workplace or livery yard again. 

The annoying thing is, they've not taken statements from anyone else, where he's visited. Yet if they had spoken to the man who owns the garage, he'd have told the police that this man told him, and I quote..."When she (my friend) speaks to me, she makes me melt".

That does rather indicate this isn't about money at all, which she absolutely doesn't owe, but more about his unrequited affection toward my friend. 

Oh and apparently, she has now stolen a pitchfork from him!

Dear god!


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## Apizz2019 (9 August 2021)

southerncomfort said:



			Sweet Jesus!

Your poor friend, this is awful. 

Below is how to contact the Northamptonshire PCC.

https://www.police.uk/pu/policing-i...ime-commissioner-for-northamptonshire-police/

Click to expand...

Thank you 😘


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## Apizz2019 (9 August 2021)

wills_91 said:



			Are you in Scotland by any chance?!

I've just caught up with this and I'm absolutely seething. If the police will do nothing - and I'm sorry I'm not buying the to busy, be much busier when they are dealing with a murder - then a few big guys should be paying him a visit and would have happened long ago round here. How absolutely devastating for his victims and the trauma this can cause can be life changing. I would not be letri g this drop, go as high up as you can until something is done.
		
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No, we're in Northants.

Some people do deserve rough justice!


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## Roasted Chestnuts (9 August 2021)

wills_91 said:



			Are you in Scotland by any chance?!

I've just caught up with this and I'm absolutely seething. If the police will do nothing - and I'm sorry I'm not buying the to busy, be much busier when they are dealing with a murder - then a few big guys should be paying him a visit and would have happened long ago round here. How absolutely devastating for his victims and the trauma this can cause can be life changing. I would not be letri g this drop, go as high up as you can until something is done.
		
Click to expand...

Yes I am. The police up here seem to be more on it than down south but I’d they did nothing then well I could see him getting some rough justice done


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## McFluff (9 August 2021)

Just a thought, get her to speak to her employer. Warn them of what has happened. Ask them if he has genuine business with them, and if he does, ask them to put measures in to protect her. 
As an employer, I’ve been involved that way, and (in Scotland) the police were on board and helped. 
I’d also spend a few hundred pounds to speak to an experienced lawyer, share all evidence gathered so far, and get some advice to help.


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## Sossigpoker (9 August 2021)

So once again a woman has to get hurt or even killed before the totally useless police lift a fecking finger?
Sadly it doesn't surprise me but makes my blood boil.
I'm just grateful that my other half is perfectly capable and willing to meter out some street justice if I was harassed like this , but women shouldn't have to rely on their male friends and family to protect them. I thought that's what the police are for but clearly not!


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## Apizz2019 (10 August 2021)

Sorry if I haven't responded to your comment, I'm struggling to keep up 😂

My friend has made a formal complaint, so let's see what happens from here. 

She has spoken to her employer and her employer has already confirmed to the police that he has no business there, however, as there are businesses close by that he could use in the course of business, not that he needs to, I think it will be very difficult to prove anything now that the police seem to have given him a licence to do what he wants! 

It's hard to explain and I can't give too much detail as it will identify my friend but she works in an open space, surrounded by lots of open space, and other businesses in said open space. 

I find it incredible that the police seemingly don't have the power to stop people like this. That, or they can't be bothered. Who knows! 

On a sidenote, I wish my friend had stolen his pitchfork as he could accidentally trip and fall on it when collecting....


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## Regandal (10 August 2021)

I cannot believe that there is any police force in the uk that would not take this very seriously, especially when this person has access to firearms.


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## Apizz2019 (10 August 2021)

Regandal said:



			I cannot believe that there is any police force in the uk that would not take this very seriously, especially when this person has access to firearms.
		
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My friend has never seen him with a gun on his land, so we're not 100% sure he does have firearms. He must have had before, based on what we've been told by people who rented his yard over the years. 

Firearms or not, this matter should be taken seriously as the man is unhinged. 

Let's see if good old Northants police do the right thing.


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## 1523679 (10 August 2021)

Regandal said:



			I cannot believe that there is any police force in the uk that would not take this very seriously, especially when this person has access to firearms.
		
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I’m in Scotland and have a neighbour who follows me (and/or husband) when we drive anywhere; who draws pentagrams on our walls and who’s told us “you’ll get yours”, “I’ll drive you out of here” and “I’ll make you pay”. Among lots of other tedious stuff. For over 2 years.

Neighbour has psychiatric issues and an unlicensed firearm.

Police response? There’s “nothing we can do unless it’s ABH”.

Yeah. Thanks for that.

We’re going for Plan B. Acquaintances of acquaintances who take on work the police don’t have time for.


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## Apizz2019 (10 August 2021)

1523679 said:



			I’m in Scotland and have a neighbour who follows me (and/or husband) when we drive anywhere; who draws pentagrams on our walls and who’s told us “you’ll get yours”, “I’ll drive you out of here” and “I’ll make you pay”. Among lots of other tedious stuff. For over 2 years.

Neighbour has psychiatric issues and an unlicensed firearm.

Police response? There’s “nothing we can do unless it’s ABH”.

Yeah. Thanks for that.

We’re going for Plan B. Acquaintances of acquaintances who take on work the police don’t have time for.
		
Click to expand...


Unbelievable! 

I have a friend of a friend who is an officer in a force many miles away from Northants and he has said the police are so understaffed they almost have to pick and choose what they respond to and how they respond/manage reports, if not life or death. How true that is, who knows, but given how they've dealt with my friends issue and recent tragic recent events, it wouldn't surprise me if this is the case. 

Sad state of affairs and yet everyone is shocked when people take matters into their own hands. 

Stay safe!


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## Apizz2019 (10 August 2021)

New2this said:



			Go to a solicitor (as advised above). Get them to write a scary letter. Ask solicitor if they can mention costs (lost time at work, doctors bills, etc etc). Give him a scare and let him know it might cost him. Seems like money is important to him.

Very sad about police. As said before, we live in a deeply misogynistic world. That man in Birmingham getting out of prison so early after murdering his girlfriend (rough sex defence 🤢🤢🤢) turns my bloody stomach.

Hope your friends ok.
		
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The problem is, this isn't about money. Of the 9 ex liveries we've spoken to thus far, he's harrassed 7 of them on the premise of them owing monies. They've paid to get rid of him, even though no monies were owed, but it hasn't stopped him harrasing them, that is until he falls in love with the next person.

He now has a young lady on his yard who moved onto his yard a few weeks ago, who we know albeit not very well, and she has been warned by my friend about what has happened and to be on her guard.

The saddest part is she believes him and has been slating my friend saying she owes money and did a runner. That is despite this young lady being present, moving her stuff in, on the day my friend departed, with the very man himself stood there telling the new livery how much he'll miss my friend and that he was very sad she was leaving.


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## ArklePig (10 August 2021)

OP I'm so sorry for what your friend is going through, absolutely vile,and the inaction from the police is disappointing but not surprising. At this stage, I think your friend needs to engage the services of a solicitor to simultaneously apply for a non molestation order and lodge a complaint with the police. This can be dealt with as a civil matter , even though his behaviour is 100 percent criminal.


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## Apizz2019 (10 August 2021)

ArklePig said:



			OP I'm so sorry for what your friend is going through, absolutely vile,and the inaction from the police is disappointing but not surprising. At this stage, I think your friend needs to engage the services of a solicitor to simultaneously apply for a non molestation order and lodge a complaint with the police. This can be dealt with as a civil matter , even though his behaviour is 100 percent criminal.
		
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That would be the ideal but it's money she doesn't have, sadly, and he knows it! 

He's at expert level in this game 😏


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## cauda equina (10 August 2021)

Perhaps contact a charity for further advice eg Womens Aid


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## Apizz2019 (10 August 2021)

cauda equina said:



			Perhaps contact a charity for further advice eg Womens Aid
		
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Women's aid can't help as it's not domestic. This also doesn't fall under coercive and controlling behaviour in the eyes of the law as there has been no romantic relationship.


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## cauda equina (10 August 2021)

Apizz2019 said:



			Women's aid can't help as it's not domestic. This also doesn't fall under coercive and controlling behaviour in the eyes of the law as there has been no romantic relationship.
		
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Oh, shame
OK, there must be another organisation that can advise her if she can't afford legal help - Suzy Lamplugh Trust?


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## Apizz2019 (10 August 2021)

cauda equina said:



			Oh, shame
OK, there must be another organisation that can advise her if she can't afford legal help - Suzy Lamplugh Trust?
		
Click to expand...

I've sent her their number, thank you 😊


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## brighteyes (10 August 2021)

Is there any way she could somehow get a bodyguard - on speed dial or something?


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## Apizz2019 (10 August 2021)

brighteyes said:



			Is there any way she could somehow get a bodyguard - on speed dial or something?
		
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Doubtful. She doesn't have cash to throw away and is in quite a tight situation financially, sadly, but is able to manage on what she earns, just!


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## duckling (10 August 2021)

This is awful. Sadly I have no faith that the police will do much to help, despite all the recent promises and press releases - violence against women and girls just isn’t taken seriously enough. 

There are links to more resources for victims of stalking here in case they may help your friend: https://alicerugglestrust.org/aware


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## Apizz2019 (10 August 2021)

duckling said:



			This is awful. Sadly I have no faith that the police will do much to help, despite all the recent promises and press releases - violence against women and girls just isn’t taken seriously enough.

There are links to more resources for victims of stalking here in case they may help your friend: https://alicerugglestrust.org/aware

Click to expand...

Thanks so much! 😊


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## AUB (10 August 2021)

On Amazon you can find personal alarms for about £10. They can make a whole lot of noise, some of them I’ve just seen go up to around 150 dB. I definitely think your friend should get one of those. It might make her feel more safe. 

Here in Denmark the police can give victims of stalking a personal alarm that will alert the police asap in case of emergency, but it doesn’t really sound as if the police is very helpful in your friends’ case… But it seems as if some security companies also offer a service like that, maybe it’s worth looking into. 

I’ve also just googled and it seems that there are apps for stalking victims where you can collect all evidence in one place, it simple creates a log over events and can then be given to the police. In the app I found you could also create a network of people who can follow where the victim is and will be notified immediately if the victim activates the alarm function.


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## Leandy (10 August 2021)

Apizz2019 said:



			They've paid to get rid of him, even though no monies were owed,
		
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I think you've said this twice now.  Are the police fully aware of these allegations?  Just so they can add extortion to the list of alleged offences here.  Perhaps that will give them the angle they need to look more closely into the assertion that your friend owes money?


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## Shilasdair (10 August 2021)

Cheeky Chestnut said:



			In surprised he hasn’t had a kicking. Maybe the rules are different where you are but up here that wouldn’t be tolerated. If the police didn’t do anything the males of the persons family would. Gun licence or no gun licence.

If he is doing this to multiple people then to me there is no clear finger pointing if someone did teach him a lesson
		
Click to expand...

  When I had trouble with an ex starting to get physical, my lovely Scottish mates, male and female had to be dissuaded from riding (on bikes not horses) down from Scotland to Gloucestershire to 'discuss' matters with him.


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## brighteyes (10 August 2021)

Mace/pepper spray and a taser. I'll chip in!


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## Apizz2019 (10 August 2021)

Leandy said:



			I think you've said this twice now.  Are the police fully aware of these allegations?  Just so they can add extortion to the list of alleged offences here.  Perhaps that will give them the angle they need to look more closely into the assertion that your friend owes money?
		
Click to expand...

Yes repeatedly. We've even got an ex livery who he was physically aggressive with and a menace, who is willing to make a statement, but it seems they're not interested.

I really wish I were making this all up and none of it were true.

It's beyond ridiculous.


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## Apizz2019 (10 August 2021)

Shilasdair said:



  When I had trouble with an ex starting to get physical, my lovely Scottish mates, male and female had to be dissuaded from riding (on bikes not horses) down from Scotland to Gloucestershire to 'discuss' matters with him.
		
Click to expand...

Can I borrow your mates? 😊😊


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## Apizz2019 (10 August 2021)

brighteyes said:



			Mace/pepper spray and a taser. I'll chip in!
		
Click to expand...

I need to find that pitchfork 😂😂


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## Amymay (10 August 2021)

Apizz2019 said:



			I need to find that pitchfork 😂😂
		
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Seriously though, she does need to carry a personal alarm.


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## Apizz2019 (10 August 2021)

Amymay said:



			Seriously though, she does need to carry a personal alarm.
		
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Well, it's all gone quiet for now but I'm looking at what she can carry on her to help her if she finds herself in a situation.


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## Apizz2019 (10 August 2021)

AUB said:



			On Amazon you can find personal alarms for about £10. They can make a whole lot of noise, some of them I’ve just seen go up to around 150 dB. I definitely think your friend should get one of those. It might make her feel more safe.

Here in Denmark the police can give victims of stalking a personal alarm that will alert the police asap in case of emergency, but it doesn’t really sound as if the police is very helpful in your friends’ case… But it seems as if some security companies also offer a service like that, maybe it’s worth looking into.

I’ve also just googled and it seems that there are apps for stalking victims where you can collect all evidence in one place, it simple creates a log over events and can then be given to the police. In the app I found you could also create a network of people who can follow where the victim is and will be notified immediately if the victim activates the alarm function.
		
Click to expand...

Thanks so much, I'll get her to take a look at what she can have on her person, phone etc in case she needs it.


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## Howard Fernandes (10 August 2021)

I've been asked by a member to read this thread and to comment, hopefully constructively.

I'm a 30yr plus years service former Met PC happily retired.

My last 4 years I worked in a busy crime management unit and I know what amounts to a crime and what doesn't, and what action police are required to undertake in the event they are notified of one.

I don't know the full story as I haven't heard what the complainant has told police so I will pitch in at the bottom rung.
*Harassment.*

This offence was created to enable police to deal with instances of unwanted and unwarranted  attention from someone where no other crime appeared to have been committed.

Harassment is a criminal offence under the Public Order Act 1986.

In the first instance where a complainant feels an advance made towards them which in itself may be benign, for example leaving flowers / chocolates at their door and they don't want the attention, the offence is not made out. 

No offence of* any kind* has been committed.

Its not unreasonable behaviour unless the person was *aware in advance* that doing so was likely to cause the recipient to feel uncomfortable. 

In such instances all the police need to do is let the person concerned that their attentions are not appreciated and to refrain from them. Simple note in pocket book ( or whatever they use these days ) to record the allegation and action taken, update the control room. Job done.

If the person concerned has been made aware their behaviour is not appreciated but continues to leave chocolates / flowers or anything else that is unwarranted and unwanted the offence is now complete and a CRIME *MUST* BE RECORDED. 
Home Office Counting Rules.

It must also be *investigated and actioned ( as appropriate )*, and the victim kept informed of progress and any outcome. ( See 'victims charter' which puts the victims needs / wishes at the centre of crime management ).

From a police officer's perspective I can't see why a crime, with a known perpetrator and supportive victim isn't before a court. That suggests to me there are aspects to this I am not aware of so I make no criticism of the police or the complainant. 
I don't know what has transpired.

Our police officers do an impossible job ( seriously, go and try it ), to the best of their ability and in doing so deserve our full support.

I know it is incredibly frustrating if you do not receive the outcome or assistance you expect and possibly are entitled to, and yes you do have the right to go freely about your lawful daily business without fear of violence, *BUT* for Christ's sake don't make things worse by suggesting taking the law into your own hands. I can guarantee you if you end up in front of a Judge they rightly take an exceedingly dim view of such action and you can expect to receive no quarter...

Complain to your local police and if the behaviour continues keep going back and reporting every instance.
HTH.

It is worth knowing......"If the circumstances of an allegation as described by the victim amount to a crime in law, in the absence of *evidence* to the contrary, a crime *MUST* be recorded."  
HOCR

 If evidence subsequently comes to light to show the contrary, the report can be reclassified as 'No Crime' and the reasons recorded thereon.


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## Fransurrey (10 August 2021)

Apizz, can the witnesses not insist on making a statement? If they have the incident number could they go into a police station (or online, since there don't seem to be any these days) and link the statement to the alleged crime? It might not expedite the investigation, but in the event he does make another visit, it would already be on record. Maybe Howard above can confirm if that's possible.


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## Apizz2019 (10 August 2021)

Howard Fernandes said:



			I've been asked by a member to read this thread and to comment, hopefully constructively.

I'm a 30yr plus years service former Met PC happily retired.

My last 4 years I worked in a busy crime management unit and I know what amounts to a crime and what doesn't, and what action police are required to undertake in the event they are notified of one.

I don't know the full story as I haven't heard what the complainant has told police so I will pitch in at the bottom rung.
*Harassment.*

This offence was created to enable police to deal with instances of unwanted and unwarranted  attention from someone where no other crime appeared to have been committed.

Harassment is a criminal offence under the Public Order Act 1986.

In the first instance where a complainant feels an advance made towards them which in itself may be benign, for example leaving flowers / chocolates at their door and they don't want the attention, the offence is not made out.

No offence of* any kind* has been committed.

Its not unreasonable behaviour unless the person was *aware in advance* that doing so was likely to cause the recipient to feel uncomfortable.

In such instances all the police need to do is let the person concerned that their attentions are not appreciated and to refrain from them. Simple note in pocket book ( or whatever they use these days ) to record the allegation and action taken, update the control room. Job done.

If the person concerned has been made aware their behaviour is not appreciated but continues to leave chocolates / flowers or anything else that is unwarranted and unwanted the offence is now complete and a CRIME *MUST* BE RECORDED.
Home Office Counting Rules.

It must also be *investigated and actioned ( as appropriate )*, and the victim kept informed of progress and any outcome. ( See 'victims charter' which puts the victims needs / wishes at the centre of crime management ).

From a police officer's perspective I can't see why a crime, with a known perpetrator and supportive victim isn't before a court. That suggests to me there are aspects to this I am not aware of so I make no criticism of the police or the complainant.
I don't know what has transpired.

Our police officers do an impossible job ( seriously, go and try it ), to the best of their ability and in doing so deserve our full support.

I know it is incredibly frustrating if you do not receive the outcome or assistance you expect and possibly are entitled to, and yes you do have the right to go freely about your lawful daily business without fear of violence, *BUT* for Christ's sake don't make things worse by suggesting taking the law into your own hands. I can guarantee you if you end up in front of a Judge they rightly take an exceedingly dim view of such action and you can expect to receive no quarter...

Complain to your local police and if the behaviour continues keep going back and reporting every instance.
HTH.

It is worth knowing......"If the circumstances of an allegation as described by the victim amount to a crime in law, in the absence of *evidence* to the contrary, a crime *MUST* be recorded."
HOCR

If evidence subsequently comes to light to show the contrary, the report can be reclassified as 'No Crime' and the reasons recorded thereon.
		
Click to expand...

Thank you, this is very helpful.

Here's a time line of events... to make it absolutely clear what the situation is.

Friend moved to said yard on farmers land approx 8 weeks ago.
Rent paid in full for the first month.

No problems during time there. He was a bit strange but nothing untoward.

She handed her notice in 6 weeks later, paid monies owed until the time she was leaving - he actually handed her back £20 as she'd ordered something off the internet for one of his dogs as he 'doesn't do the Internet'.

The day before she left, she called me as she felt a little uncomfortable as this man had told her he was sad she was leaving and wanted to sign his house and land over to her, for her to stay. We naturally made a joke of it as we thought it a little funny.

My friend left on the Saturday while the new livery was moving in. My friend had another friend with her while she moved as she felt uncomfortable in his presence, due to his strange behaviour the prior evening. The farmer got very upset and spoke to our mutual friend and said he was going to ask her to move in with him.

All very odd but nothing more than that.

On the following Monday, while my friend was as work, the farmer turned up and started screaming and shouting about monies owed. He was asked to leave the premises by my friend and the business owner. He did not and said 'call the police, I don't care'. A call to the police was made but they did not show - maybe because my friend didn't use the right language to say how scared she was.

He remained at the workplace for approximately 2 hours. Then he left and went to the garage where my friend had recently traded in a small lorry in exchange for work to be done on her big lorry. He demanded that the garage owner give him my friends small lorry as she owed him money. The garage owner asked the farmer to leave and he did.

The garage owner let my friend know and she called the police back to log this.

That evening, the police called the farmer to advise him of the small claims route, if my friend did indeed owe him money. He was told by the police he was not to contact her or attempt to contact her directly or indirectly, or he would be arrested.

The very next day, Tuesday, he arrived at my friends new livery yard while she was at work and caused a scene with the livery yard owner and husband, ranting about her owing money. He then left the livery yard and went back to the garage to again demand my friends old lorry as payment. While there, he also stated to the garage owner that 'when she talks to me, I melt'. Clearly this is about some sick fantasy he has, not monies that are not owed.

My friend called the police again to say what had happened and that he hadn't heeded their warning etc. She also stated that she was scared, to the point of changing her horses routine as she was scared he was going to hurt them.

The police attended my friends place of work this Friday just gone, to take a statement and then contacted the farmer to invite him to a voluntary interview, which took place yesterday.

The police called my friend after the interview and stated that this farmer is adamant she owed him money and that is the crux of the matter, when we know it isn't, and the police have been told every possible detail. Oh, and she has now stolen his pitchfork apparently.

They have not taken a statement from her employer, the livery yard owner or the garage owner.

In the meantime, we have sought to gain as much information as we can and have found a number of people, all females, who have had varying experiences with this individual over the years. Most of which we suspect haven't been reported and most of whom have paid him money they haven't owed, to try to get him to leave them alone.

One lady is so scared, 10 odd years later, that she would only talk to us and provide very limited information via a friend, through fear of being identified, and has moved yards multiple times, her horse was shot (whether that was him or not is a question we don't think will ever be answered) and she even had to move house.

My friend hasn't slept well since this started - she's even having nightmares, and she has told the police how scared she is and yet he's allowed to do whatever he likes, or so it seems.

I can only hope he moves onto his next victim, as horrid as that sounds, as I fear for my friends safety and any female that has contact with him.

A formal complaint has been put in to the police, one which I hope is take seriously, as this cannot be allowed to happen.

That said, I have had first hand experience of Northants police with my daughter and her abusive ex-boyfriend and also had to put in a complaint as that seemed to be dealt with in a 'brush it under the carpet' manner. Possibly because her ex-boyfriend was an ex Nothants officers son.
We had neighbour witness statements from when he put our back door in, statements of him beating her up, smashing up her work van but nothing, not a jot came from it and she too lived in fear for a long time. Until he decided to drive down our street one evening and rev his engine, shout abuse etc to which my partner went outside and put his windscreen through. Funnily enough, the harrassment came to an abrupt halt as he too only understood rough justice.

I won't take matters into my own hands, nor will anyone else, however, I would not stand by and sit back if I thought my friend were in danger, or any human for that matter!

I wish there was more to the story as it would make sense as to what has triggered him. But this is all there is. Nothing more, nothing less.


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## Apizz2019 (10 August 2021)

Fransurrey said:



			Apizz, can the witnesses not insist on making a statement? If they have the incident number could they go into a police station (or online, since there don't seem to be any these days) and link the statement to the alleged crime? It might not expedite the investigation, but in the event he does make another visit, it would already be on record. Maybe Howard above can confirm if that's possible.
		
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Possibly but I wonder if it might need to be a seperate report?


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## Fransurrey (10 August 2021)

Apizz2019 said:



			Possibly but I wonder if it might need to be a seperate report?
		
Click to expand...

Shouldn't be. I've given a statement in response to a call for witnesses in the past and just needed the incident number. In those days, we had a police station (!), so I made an appointment and went in. Had to do the oath bit and an officer transcribed everything I said. I signed it and that was it!


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## Shilasdair (10 August 2021)

As a woman, I'm sick of the police's '_Come back when he's murdered you and then we'll consider taking it seriously_' approach.  

It's lazy, and it's fundamentally misogynistic.


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## Howard Fernandes (10 August 2021)

Apizz2019 said:



			Thank you, this is very helpful.

Here's a time line of events... to make it absolutely clear what the situation is.

Friend moved to said yard on farmers land approx 8 weeks ago.
Rent paid in full for the first month.

No problems during time there. He was a bit strange but nothing untoward.

She handed her notice in 6 weeks later, paid monies owed until the time she was leaving - he actually handed her back £20 as she'd ordered something off the internet for one of his dogs as he 'doesn't do the Internet'.

The day before she left, she called me as she felt a little uncomfortable as this man had told her he was sad she was leaving and wanted to sign his house and land over to her, for her to stay. We naturally made a joke of it as we thought it a little funny.

My friend left on the Saturday while the new livery was moving in. My friend had another friend with her while she moved as she felt uncomfortable in his presence, due to his strange behaviour the prior evening. The farmer got very upset and spoke to our mutual friend and said he was going to ask her to move in with him.

All very odd but nothing more than that.

On the following Monday, while my friend was as work, the farmer turned up and started screaming and shouting about monies owed. He was asked to leave the premises by my friend and the business owner. He did not and said 'call the police, I don't care'. A call to the police was made but they did not show - maybe because my friend didn't use the right language to say how scared she was.

He remained at the workplace for approximately 2 hours. Then he left and went to the garage where my friend had recently traded in a small lorry in exchange for work to be done on her big lorry. He demanded that the garage owner give him my friends small lorry as she owed him money. The garage owner asked the farmer to leave and he did.

The garage owner let my friend know and she called the police back to log this.

That evening, the police called the farmer to advise him of the small claims route, if my friend did indeed owe him money. He was told by the police he was not to contact her or attempt to contact her directly or indirectly, or he would be arrested.

The very next day, Tuesday, he arrived at my friends new livery yard while she was at work and caused a scene with the livery yard owner and husband, ranting about her owing money. He then left the livery yard and went back to the garage to again demand my friends old lorry as payment. While there, he also stated to the garage owner that 'when she talks to me, I melt'. Clearly this is about some sick fantasy he has, not monies that are not owed.

My friend called the police again to say what had happened and that he hadn't heeded their warning etc. She also stated that she was scared, to the point of changing her horses routine as she was scared he was going to hurt them.

The police attended my friends place of work this Friday just gone, to take a statement and then contacted the farmer to invite him to a voluntary interview, which took place yesterday.

The police called my friend after the interview and stated that this farmer is adamant she owed him money and that is the crux of the matter, when we know it isn't, and the police have been told every possible detail. Oh, and she has now stolen his pitchfork apparently.

They have not taken a statement from her employer, the livery yard owner or the garage owner.

In the meantime, we have sought to gain as much information as we can and have found a number of people, all females, who have had varying experiences with this individual over the years. Most of which we suspect haven't been reported and most of whom have paid him money they haven't owed, to try to get him to leave them alone.

One lady is so scared, 10 odd years later, that she would only talk to us and provide very limited information via a friend, through fear of being identified, and has moved yards multiple times, her horse was shot (whether that was him or not is a question we don't think will ever be answered) and she even had to move house.

My friend hasn't slept well since this started - she's even having nightmares, and she has told the police how scared she is and yet he's allowed to do whatever he likes, or so it seems.

I can only hope he moves onto his next victim, as horrid as that sounds, as I fear for my friends safety and any female that has contact with him.

A formal complaint has been put in to the police, one which I hope is take seriously, as this cannot be allowed to happen.

That said, I have had first hand experience of Northants police with my daughter and her abusive ex-boyfriend and also had to put in a complaint as that seemed to be dealt with in a 'brush it under the carpet' manner. Possibly because her ex-boyfriend was an ex Nothants officers son.
We had neighbour witness statements from when he put our back door in, statements of him beating her up, smashing up her work van but nothing, not a jot came from it and she too lived in fear for a long time. Until he decided to drive down our street one evening and rev his engine, shout abuse etc to which my partner went outside and put his windscreen through. Funnily enough, the harrassment came to an abrupt halt as he too only understood rough justice.

I won't take matters into my own hands, nor will anyone else, however, I would not stand by and sit back if I thought my friend were in danger, or any human for that matter!

I wish there was more to the story as it would make sense as to what has triggered him. But this is all there is. Nothing more, nothing less.
		
Click to expand...

It appears the police are following established procedure and yes, they may well be unaware of previous issues if they were not reported by victims. I don't for a second imagine the suspect has not been 'run through the computer' but previous unreported history is exactly that. If what you have posted here is on record, I imagine alarm bells would be ringing with the officer dealing with the matter.

Whether the garage owner, employer, livery yard owner or previous alleged victims wish substantiate or have reported anything would likely have a bearing on what action police can take in this matter.

Again I can't comment from any authority either way.
Its not my investigation and Im not privvy to the facts.

It's the same with the Ex Northants Officers son and your daughter. 
I do know I wouldn't risk my liberty, job and house by perverting the course of justice for anyone. 

If he alleges she took his pitch fork and there is no evidence she can forget it.

Victims of previously unreported crimes are free to disclose them to police if they so wish.


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## onemoretime (10 August 2021)

Apizz2019 said:



			Thank you, this is very helpful.

Here's a time line of events... to make it absolutely clear what the situation is.

Friend moved to said yard on farmers land approx 8 weeks ago.
Rent paid in full for the first month.

No problems during time there. He was a bit strange but nothing untoward.

She handed her notice in 6 weeks later, paid monies owed until the time she was leaving - he actually handed her back £20 as she'd ordered something off the internet for one of his dogs as he 'doesn't do the Internet'.

The day before she left, she called me as she felt a little uncomfortable as this man had told her he was sad she was leaving and wanted to sign his house and land over to her, for her to stay. We naturally made a joke of it as we thought it a little funny.

My friend left on the Saturday while the new livery was moving in. My friend had another friend with her while she moved as she felt uncomfortable in his presence, due to his strange behaviour the prior evening. The farmer got very upset and spoke to our mutual friend and said he was going to ask her to move in with him.

All very odd but nothing more than that.

On the following Monday, while my friend was as work, the farmer turned up and started screaming and shouting about monies owed. He was asked to leave the premises by my friend and the business owner. He did not and said 'call the police, I don't care'. A call to the police was made but they did not show - maybe because my friend didn't use the right language to say how scared she was.

He remained at the workplace for approximately 2 hours. Then he left and went to the garage where my friend had recently traded in a small lorry in exchange for work to be done on her big lorry. He demanded that the garage owner give him my friends small lorry as she owed him money. The garage owner asked the farmer to leave and he did.

The garage owner let my friend know and she called the police back to log this.

That evening, the police called the farmer to advise him of the small claims route, if my friend did indeed owe him money. He was told by the police he was not to contact her or attempt to contact her directly or indirectly, or he would be arrested.

The very next day, Tuesday, he arrived at my friends new livery yard while she was at work and caused a scene with the livery yard owner and husband, ranting about her owing money. He then left the livery yard and went back to the garage to again demand my friends old lorry as payment. While there, he also stated to the garage owner that 'when she talks to me, I melt'. Clearly this is about some sick fantasy he has, not monies that are not owed.

My friend called the police again to say what had happened and that he hadn't heeded their warning etc. She also stated that she was scared, to the point of changing her horses routine as she was scared he was going to hurt them.

The police attended my friends place of work this Friday just gone, to take a statement and then contacted the farmer to invite him to a voluntary interview, which took place yesterday.

The police called my friend after the interview and stated that this farmer is adamant she owed him money and that is the crux of the matter, when we know it isn't, and the police have been told every possible detail. Oh, and she has now stolen his pitchfork apparently.

They have not taken a statement from her employer, the livery yard owner or the garage owner.

In the meantime, we have sought to gain as much information as we can and have found a number of people, all females, who have had varying experiences with this individual over the years. Most of which we suspect haven't been reported and most of whom have paid him money they haven't owed, to try to get him to leave them alone.

One lady is so scared, 10 odd years later, that she would only talk to us and provide very limited information via a friend, through fear of being identified, and has moved yards multiple times, her horse was shot (whether that was him or not is a question we don't think will ever be answered) and she even had to move house.

My friend hasn't slept well since this started - she's even having nightmares, and she has told the police how scared she is and yet he's allowed to do whatever he likes, or so it seems.

I can only hope he moves onto his next victim, as horrid as that sounds, as I fear for my friends safety and any female that has contact with him.

A formal complaint has been put in to the police, one which I hope is take seriously, as this cannot be allowed to happen.

That said, I have had first hand experience of Northants police with my daughter and her abusive ex-boyfriend and also had to put in a complaint as that seemed to be dealt with in a 'brush it under the carpet' manner. Possibly because her ex-boyfriend was an ex Nothants officers son.
We had neighbour witness statements from when he put our back door in, statements of him beating her up, smashing up her work van but nothing, not a jot came from it and she too lived in fear for a long time. Until he decided to drive down our street one evening and rev his engine, shout abuse etc to which my partner went outside and put his windscreen through. Funnily enough, the harrassment came to an abrupt halt as he too only understood rough justice.

I won't take matters into my own hands, nor will anyone else, however, I would not stand by and sit back if I thought my friend were in danger, or any human for that matter!

I wish there was more to the story as it would make sense as to what has triggered him. But this is all there is. Nothing more, nothing less.
		
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God what dreadful situation to find yourself in!


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## Apizz2019 (10 August 2021)

Fransurrey said:



			Shouldn't be. I've given a statement in response to a call for witnesses in the past and just needed the incident number. In those days, we had a police station (!), so I made an appointment and went in. Had to do the oath bit and an officer transcribed everything I said. I signed it and that was it!
		
Click to expand...

Thank you - I'll let my friend know.


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## Apizz2019 (10 August 2021)

onemoretime said:



			God what dreadful situation to find yourself in!
		
Click to expand...

I really wish there was more to it but there isn't. He's an unhinged, dangerous individual!


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## Apizz2019 (10 August 2021)

Shilasdair said:



			As a woman, I'm sick of the police's '_Come back when he's murdered you and then we'll consider taking it seriously_' approach. 

It's lazy, and it's fundamentally misogynistic.
		
Click to expand...

I feel for the police, they have an incredibly tough job that many wouldn't do and it can't be easy. But they're not doing their job in this instance. If I didn't do my job, I'd be in hot water! 

It seems they have a 'we won't do anything but don't you do anything either' kind of attitude. 

I can say with 100% certainty, if he approaches my friend in my presence, effing, jeffing and behaving aggressively, he will not be getting back in his truck anytime soon.


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## Pinkvboots (10 August 2021)

You need a few big guys to go and scare the crap out of him his just a horrible low life bully.


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## Apizz2019 (10 August 2021)

Pinkvboots said:



			You need a few big guys to go and scare the crap out of him his just a horrible low life bully.
		
Click to expand...

He is, sadly. But that's not the right way to do things, as hard as it is to stand back and not do something.


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## Griffin (10 August 2021)

I have just caught up with this thread, your poor friend @Apizz2019 and all those other women too.  Sadly, the attitude of Northamptonshire Police does not surprise me with regards to this situation and these sorts of men are very good at playing the "She's a hysterical woman" card and people in authority almost always believe them.  The police, government, even the NHS are full of misogyny, it makes my blood boil.

What is security like at your friend's house?  Does this man know her address?  If so, I would be investing in some home CCTV very quickly (I particularly like my Ring video doorbell because you don't even have to open the door to see and speak to someone and it records what is going on).  Motion detected security lights are also useful and you can buy solar powered ones quite cheaply. 

Personally, I would be tempted to move the horse somewhere else that he doesn't know about.  I would continue to complain to the police, definitely the chief constable and also the PCC and her local MP.  It may also worth her going to her GP because that is another record to show the distress caused by the situation and they may be able to refer her for counselling if she would like it.


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## Pearlsasinger (10 August 2021)

Has your friend actually got a crime number?


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## Goldenstar (10 August 2021)

Misogyny, it’s everywhere the older I get the more clearly I see it .
 Its why woman meet resistance when they try to seek help .
On him accusing her of owning him money since when has threatening behaviour been an acceptable legal way of dealing with business debt .


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## Apizz2019 (10 August 2021)

Pearlsasinger said:



			Has your friend actually got a crime number?
		
Click to expand...

Yes, she has a crime number.


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## Apizz2019 (10 August 2021)

Goldenstar said:



			Misogyny, it’s everywhere the older I get the more clearly I see it .
Its why woman meet resistance when they try to seek help .
On him accusing her of owning him money since when has threatening behaviour been an acceptable legal way of dealing with business debt .
		
Click to expand...

Exactly this!!


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## brighteyes (10 August 2021)

I have a brilliant little wi-fi run camera which was £25 - you put an SD card in for recording, the image is awesome day and night and it does two-way talk and a horrible alarm, Tapo Link 200 I think.  Fab CCTV device you can point out of the window and monitor from your phone. Perfect for anyone ona budget. Get a couple of £4.50 personal alarms (I have the real ear-splitters) and link them together (but you'll probably be deafened too).


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## Apizz2019 (10 August 2021)

Griffin said:



			I have just caught up with this thread, your poor friend @Apizz2019 and all those other women too.  Sadly, the attitude of Northamptonshire Police does not surprise me with regards to this situation and these sorts of men are very good at playing the "She's a hysterical woman" card and people in authority almost always believe them.  The police, government, even the NHS are full of misogyny, it makes my blood boil.

What is security like at your friend's house?  Does this man know her address?  If so, I would be investing in some home CCTV very quickly (I particularly like my Ring video doorbell because you don't even have to open the door to see and speak to someone and it records what is going on).  Motion detected security lights are also useful and you can buy solar powered ones quite cheaply.

Personally, I would be tempted to move the horse somewhere else that he doesn't know about.  I would continue to complain to the police, definitely the chief constable and also the PCC and her local MP.  It may also worth her going to her GP because that is another record to show the distress caused by the situation and they may be able to refer her for counselling if she would like it.
		
Click to expand...

Thanks so much for your support. 

My friend is alone at night as her partner works night shifts, she's pretty secure though and he doesn't know where she lives, thankfully. 

She's had a response to her complaint tonight. 

Watch this space... 🤞🤞


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## Apizz2019 (10 August 2021)

brighteyes said:



			I have a brilliant little wi-fi run camera which was £25 - you put an SD card in for recording, the image is awesome day and night and it does two-way talk and a horrible alarm, Tapo Link 200 I think.  Fab CCTV device you can point out of the window and monitor from your phone. Perfect for anyone ona budget. Get a couple of £4.50 personal alarms (I have the real ear-splitters) and link them together (but you'll probably be deafened too).
		
Click to expand...

Thanks so much! ❤️


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## Griffin (10 August 2021)

Apizz2019 said:



			Thanks so much for your support.

My friend is alone at night as her partner works night shifts, she's pretty secure though and he doesn't know where she lives, thankfully.

She's had a response to her complaint tonight.

Watch this space... 🤞🤞
		
Click to expand...

I am glad he doesn't know her address, that would be a worry.

I really hope that her complaint has spurred the police into action. I am so angry on her behalf that this is not being taken seriously. I have everything crossed for her.


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## Apizz2019 (10 August 2021)

Griffin said:



			I am glad he doesn't know her address, that would be a worry.

I really hope that her complaint has spurred the police into action. I am so angry on her behalf that this is not being taken seriously. I have everything crossed for her.
		
Click to expand...

Not so much action per se but they have reffered her complaint to an independent panel or something - I may not have the terminology correct but it's been referred. 

Thanks so much! 🤞🤞


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## cremedemonthe (10 August 2021)

Shilasdair said:



			As a woman, I'm sick of the police's '_Come back when he's murdered you and then we'll consider taking it seriously_' approach.

It's lazy, and it's fundamentally misogynistic.
		
Click to expand...


As a man, I am sick of this individual and wonder why no men around the women involved have not put him in A & E, God help him if he ever came this way.
He would have his justice here.


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## Apizz2019 (10 August 2021)

cremedemonthe said:



			As a man, I am sick of this individual and wonder how no men around the women involved have not put him in A & E, God help him if he ever came this way.
He would have his justice here.
		
Click to expand...

I've wondered this too! I know of one lady whose partner knew and did nothing! I'm quite sure many of the females over the years must have had partners and they must have known. But it seems they did nothing! 

I don't get it.


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## Pinkvboots (11 August 2021)

cremedemonthe said:



			As a man, I am sick of this individual and wonder how no men around the women involved have not put him in A & E, God help him if he ever came this way.
He would have his justice here.
		
Click to expand...

If he came near me he would regret it and I agree the men around me would never let this individual get away with it.


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## SOS (11 August 2021)

OP I have been following this thread as after recent events with Gracies murder really upset me and gave me a slight distrust that our forces are taking stalking seriously.

However I am concerned about the amount of details you have given about your friend. If anyone knew the situation in real life they’d be able to track it very easily on here, you’ve even mentioned her work pattern in the last few posts. Please please be careful he might claim to be ‘not internet savvy’ but that could of been a clever ploy. Or someone who believes his side may see this and report back. Lots of people watch this forum that aren’t members (Hi there people in RL who think I don’t realise this).

If he knows she is helpless and the police aren’t doing anything that’s quite worrying.

This has reminded me to be a bit more coy about what I’m doing/where I am going to people I don’t know well. You never know if there is hidden intention.


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## Apizz2019 (11 August 2021)

SOS said:



			OP I have been following this thread as after recent events with Gracies murder really upset me and gave me a slight distrust that our forces are taking stalking seriously.

However I am concerned about the amount of details you have given about your friend. If anyone knew the situation in real life they’d be able to track it very easily on here, you’ve even mentioned her work pattern in the last few posts. Please please be careful he might claim to be ‘not internet savvy’ but that could of been a clever ploy. Or someone who believes his side may see this and report back. Lots of people watch this forum that aren’t members (Hi there people in RL who think I don’t realise this).

If he knows she is helpless and the police aren’t doing anything that’s quite worrying.

This has reminded me to be a bit more coy about what I’m doing/where I am going to people I don’t know well. You never know if there is hidden intention.
		
Click to expand...

Hi, thanks for your concern.

I haven't mentioned her work pattern? But also haven't given any details she's not happy to share. 

He isn't internet savvy at all, he has no family, very few friends etc and doesn't even own a mobile phone. 

Because of his public behaviour, many many people know who my friend is and what the situation is, sadly. 

The purpose of this post was to glean information but I take on board your comments 😊


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## Velcrobum (11 August 2021)

You have in a recent post said she has a partner who works night shifts. What is his take on the situation and why is he not getting involved with supporting her??


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## Apizz2019 (11 August 2021)

Velcrobum said:



			You have in a recent post said she has a partner who works night shifts. What is his take on the situation and why is he not getting involved with supporting her??
		
Click to expand...

The farmer knows this as my friend was possibly a little more open than she would have been, if she had known he was as bonkers as he is. Hence why I've said this info is already known. 

Her partner is supporting her in the way she wants him to, not by taking matters into his own hands, which is not what she wants.


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## Regandal (11 August 2021)

Why not? If the police aren’t doing anything, I’d quite happily send the boys round.


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## Apizz2019 (11 August 2021)

Regandal said:



			Why not? If the police aren’t doing anything, I’d quite happily send the boys round.
		
Click to expand...

That's not the way she's inclined and that's her decision I guess, though I disagree. Her partner is also not in the best of health.


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## smolmaus (11 August 2021)

He may be more likely to be physically violent towards her partner. If he still has delusions of romance with your friend he may not, and has not so far, escalated beyond intimidation and harassment. I think your friend is right to try and avoid an escalation to physical violence as much as possible.


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## benz (11 August 2021)

Regandal said:



			Why not? If the police aren’t doing anything, I’d quite happily send the boys round.
		
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My husband did this after I was attacked by a gang of about 10 lads (adults mind) in my own workplace/home. They broke in. My husband received a suspended jail sentence the lads nothing as no evidence and my word against theirs. Funny thing is my husband didn’t even have to touch the scum bags to have them running scared to their mummy and daddies and phoning the police but they were happy to go for a lone woman or so they thought. 

Anyway moral is that small act of ‘self defence’ put us in dire straits we lost business, house, my husband nearly went to prison which would have killed me, and we’ve spent years trying to build our lives again, so it’s not always as easy as ‘send the lads round’ and I understand why she doesn’t want him to get involved. I hope the police take this more seriously than they took my attack. ( I was told by a police woman that she gets worse every day at work what can I say? That’s the attitude of the women in the force as well  )


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## TPO (11 August 2021)

Slightly off topic but what's with all the toxic masculinity stereotypes? I know plenty of males who don't like confrontation or physical violence. Why is it assumed that all/any male should go round to "sort things out" and to not behave like that is a failing and lack of "being a man"?

OP really feel for your friend. She is doing the right thing calling 101 to log every time this man harasses her. If he steps onto her property or threatens her (verbally or by his presence) she should call 999. Police have to respond to 999 calls.


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## fiwen30 (11 August 2021)

benz said:



			My husband did this after I was attacked by a gang of about 10 lads (adults mind) in my own workplace/home. They broke in. My husband received a suspended jail sentence the lads nothing as no evidence and my word against theirs. Funny thing is my husband didn’t even have to touch the scum bags to have them running scared to their mummy and daddies and phoning the police but they were happy to go for a lone woman or so they thought.

Anyway moral is that small act of ‘self defence’ put us in dire straits we lost business, house, my husband nearly went to prison which would have killed me, and we’ve spent years trying to build our lives again, so it’s not always as easy as ‘send the lads round’ and I understand why she doesn’t want him to get involved. I hope the police take this more seriously than they took my attack. ( I was told by a police woman that she gets worse every day at work what can I say? That’s the attitude of the women in the force as well  )
		
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Off-topic, but as an additional anecdote - I was once told by a female officer who visited my house after complaints made about a neighbour who would spy through our bedroom window, that maybe I should stop ‘parading myself’. Nothing was said to the neighbour, and I lived on-edge every day till I moved house.

I’m sorry that the police aren’t being more proactive to help your friend. It’s a sorry state of affairs when these warning signs aren’t taken seriously, and instead police drag their feet until a woman inevitably ends up getting hurt, or worse, before doing something.


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## Apizz2019 (11 August 2021)

smolmaus said:



			He may be more likely to be physically violent towards her partner. If he still has delusions of romance with your friend he may not, and has not so far, escalated beyond intimidation and harassment. I think your friend is right to try and avoid an escalation to physical violence as much as possible.
		
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She has her heard firmly screwed on and is a very sensible type, more so than me admittedly. 

I think I would have gone gung ho and made things a whole lot worse if me.


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## Apizz2019 (11 August 2021)

benz said:



			My husband did this after I was attacked by a gang of about 10 lads (adults mind) in my own workplace/home. They broke in. My husband received a suspended jail sentence the lads nothing as no evidence and my word against theirs. Funny thing is my husband didn’t even have to touch the scum bags to have them running scared to their mummy and daddies and phoning the police but they were happy to go for a lone woman or so they thought.

Anyway moral is that small act of ‘self defence’ put us in dire straits we lost business, house, my husband nearly went to prison which would have killed me, and we’ve spent years trying to build our lives again, so it’s not always as easy as ‘send the lads round’ and I understand why she doesn’t want him to get involved. I hope the police take this more seriously than they took my attack. ( I was told by a police woman that she gets worse every day at work what can I say? That’s the attitude of the women in the force as well  )
		
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I'm so sorry to hear this. Hope you're all recovered now and life is back on track.


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## Apizz2019 (11 August 2021)

TPO said:



			Slightly off topic but what's with all the toxic masculinity stereotypes? I know plenty of males who don't like confrontation or physical violence. Why is it assumed that all/any male should go round to "sort things out" and to not behave like that is a failing and lack of "being a man"?

OP really feel for your friend. She is doing the right thing calling 101 to log every time this man harasses her. If he steps onto her property or threatens her (verbally or by his presence) she should call 999. Police have to respond to 999 calls.
		
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She is, I know that. Just wish I could do that instant something to put this to a halt. 

I hate seeing her like this 😕


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## Apizz2019 (11 August 2021)

fiwen30 said:



			Off-topic, but as an additional anecdote - I was once told by a female officer who visited my house after complaints made about a neighbour who would spy through our bedroom window, that maybe I should stop ‘parading myself’. Nothing was said to the neighbour, and I lived on-edge every day till I moved house.

I’m sorry that the police aren’t being more proactive to help your friend. It’s a sorry state of affairs when these warning signs aren’t taken seriously, and instead police drag their feet until a woman inevitably ends up getting hurt, or worse, before doing something.
		
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Blimey, that's not a great attitude from the police. Parading in your own house, your sanctity and safe place! 

I hope it simmers down and she's able to get back on track, stop looking over her shoulder and not constantly worrying.


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## brighteyes (11 August 2021)

Apizz2019 said:



			The farmer knows this as my friend was possibly a little more open than she would have been, if she had known he was as bonkers as he is. Hence why I've said this info is already known.

Her partner is supporting her in the way she wants him to, not by taking matters into his own hands, which is not what she wants.
		
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And within the law! He absolutely needs to keep out of it or taking matters into his own hands.

@Apizz2019 will you please PM me?


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## YorksG (11 August 2021)

I am aware that this sounds terribly tin foil hat territory, but does the man in question have some connection with the local police?


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## Apizz2019 (11 August 2021)

YorksG said:



			I am aware that this sounds terribly tin foil hat territory, but does the man in question have some connection with the local police?
		
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No, he doesn't as far as we know. He's not known to them, well that's what they've told my friend.


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## Apizz2019 (11 August 2021)

brighteyes said:



			And within the law! He absolutely needs to keep out of it or taking matters into his own hands.

@Apizz2019 will you please PM me?
		
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Will pm you now 😊


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## CanteringCarrot (11 August 2021)

TPO said:



			Slightly off topic but what's with all the toxic masculinity stereotypes? I know plenty of males who don't like confrontation or physical violence. Why is it assumed that all/any male should go round to "sort things out" and to not behave like that is a failing and lack of "being a man"?

OP really feel for your friend. She is doing the right thing calling 101 to log every time this man harasses her. If he steps onto her property or threatens her (verbally or by his presence) she should call 999. Police have to respond to 999 calls.
		
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Yes, this. Thank you for saying this.


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## Regandal (11 August 2021)

When I said ‘boys’, I was referring to my 2 sons who are a lot bigger than me. In light of recent events, I don’t think that’s unreasonable. Eldest son has in the past taken a neighbour to task for intimidating a different neighbour. No violence, just stating it like it is. 😉


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## maggiestar (11 August 2021)

Sometimes a quiet word can make bullies think twice because they know their victim is not completely unsupported. I wouldn't suggest going in there with fists flying (as we've seen, that usually ends badly) but this type of 'man' usually respects other men more than women so he'd be more likely to back down if he knew that others were on to him. A stern warning is what he needs. Threaten him with a lawsuit if nothing else. Sadly we can't always rely on the police to protect us.


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## brighteyes (11 August 2021)

The police can and will act immediately _if_ are there _and at that time _the law is being broken.  They are constrained by formal procedures even during a 999 response.


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## Apizz2019 (11 August 2021)

brighteyes said:



			The police can and will act immediately _if_ are there _and at that time _the law is being broken.  They are constrained by formal procedures even during a 999 response.
		
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Totally agree with this, however, they didn't follow up when he breached what he was told about not contacting her, going to her new yard etc. 

And I was also there, as I pmd you earlier, when the officer called her after the voluntary interview. 

I'll quote it here what he said...'It's your word against his'. When clearly not true as he'd visited premises where he'd been told not to! So everyone must by lying and in cahoots somehow?

What hope is there for anyone if this is the attitude of some officers and the  outcome of an 'investigation'?


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## Pearlsasinger (11 August 2021)

Apizz2019 said:



			Totally agree with this, however, they didn't follow up when he breached what he was told about not contacting her, going to her new yard etc.

And I was also there, as I pmd you earlier, when the officer called her after the voluntary interview.

I'll quote it here what he said...'It's your word against his'. When clearly not true as he'd visited premises where he'd been told not to! So everyone must by lying and in cahoots somehow?

What hope is there for anyone if this is the attitude of some officers and the  outcome of an 'investigation'?
		
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Which is why the complaint will, hopefully, get a result.


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## Apizz2019 (11 August 2021)

Pearlsasinger said:



			Which is why the complaint will, hopefully, get a result.
		
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Cynical me won't hold her breath 😉


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## Charley657 (11 August 2021)

It can be hard for the police to get evidence to arrest these individuals so they think they are above the law but not responding to a 999 call is ridiculous.  This guy sounds like he needs some intervention before he kills someone.


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## Apizz2019 (11 August 2021)

Charley657 said:



			It can be hard for the police to get evidence to arrest these individuals so they think they are above the law but not responding to a 999 call is ridiculous.  This guy sounds like he needs some intervention before he kills someone.
		
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They could have all the evidence they need if they wanted to take this seriously. 

Cctv at her workplace, cctv at the garage and cctv at the livery yard.... Plus witnesses - multiple witnesses! 

What more do they need as proof that he clearly didn't listen to them and heed their warning. 

In my opinion, its small fry, he said she sadi, because they cannot be bothered to investigate. 

I could half understand if it was he said, she said but it's there, should they want it!


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## Charley657 (11 August 2021)

Apizz2019 said:



			They could have all the evidence they need if they wanted to take this seriously.

Cctv at her workplace, cctv at the garage and cctv at the livery yard.... Plus witnesses - multiple witnesses!

What more do they need as proof that he clearly didn't listen to them and heed their warning.

In my opinion, its small fry, he said she sadi, because they cannot be bothered to investigate.

I could half understand if it was he said, she said but it's there, should they want it!
		
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Yes sadly I hadn't read the whole thread when I replied with that comment.  Its a disgrace how your friend has been treated and the very reason why women do not report men like him because nothing gets done.  Women end up being glad it stops or take steps to evade rather than go through the formal process because they are aware that the law gives him more rights in many respects, especially when it comes to court.  

I hope your friends complaint is upheld but I have my doubts the most you can say is at least he is in the system.


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## DSB (12 August 2021)

DSB said:



			There has just been a court case in Australia,the man was offering farm work to "backpackers",then pressuring them into having sex etc.The farm was remote,some girls had no means of escape.
he was found guilty,not sure if he has been sentanced yit.
		
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In todays paper,he has been sentanced to 9 years gaol,to serve 6 before possibility of parole.
Also will become a registered "sex offender" on release.


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## Flicker (12 August 2021)

TPO said:



			Slightly off topic but what's with all the toxic masculinity stereotypes? I know plenty of males who don't like confrontation or physical violence. Why is it assumed that all/any male should go round to "sort things out" and to not behave like that is a failing and lack of "being a man"?

OP really feel for your friend. She is doing the right thing calling 101 to log every time this man harasses her. If he steps onto her property or threatens her (verbally or by his presence) she should call 999. Police have to respond to 999 calls.
		
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I was thinking this too.  My OH would be struck off the medical register if he assaulted anyone.  Plus, I’ve known a situation where the daughter of a work colleague got into a very abusive relationship with an absolute psycho.  If her dad and brother had tried to take this guy on they would have been killed for sure.  The OP has already said the farmer has access to shotguns - are we really suggesting it is a good idea to send people onto his property to confront him??


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## I'm Dun (12 August 2021)

Flicker said:



			I was thinking this too.  My OH would be struck off the medical register if he assaulted anyone.  Plus, I’ve known a situation where the daughter of a work colleague got into a very abusive relationship with an absolute psycho.  If her dad and brother had tried to take this guy on they would have been killed for sure.  The OP has already said the farmer has access to shotguns - are we really suggesting it is a good idea to send people onto his property to confront him??
		
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Hes also got a pack of enormous and switched on german shepherds. They roam free around his house, so you wouldnt get to him anyway.


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## Pearlsasinger (12 August 2021)

Charley657 said:



			It can be hard for the police to get evidence to arrest these individuals so they think they are above the law but not responding to a 999 call is ridiculous.  This guy sounds like he needs some intervention before he kills someone.
		
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It would be easier to gather evidence if they actually took statements from witnesses!


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## Pearlsasinger (12 August 2021)

Charley657 said:



			Yes sadly I hadn't read the whole thread when I replied with that comment.  Its a disgrace how your friend has been treated and the very reason why women do not report men like him because nothing gets done.  Women end up being glad it stops or take steps to evade rather than go through the formal process because they are aware that the law gives him more rights in many respects, especially when it comes to court. 

I hope your friends complaint is upheld but I have my doubts the most you can say is at least he is in the system.
		
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The law doesn't actually give the man more rights but unfortunately, in many cases the police do because they do not follow the correct legal process.


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## Apizz2019 (12 August 2021)

Charley657 said:



			Yes sadly I hadn't read the whole thread when I replied with that comment.  Its a disgrace how your friend has been treated and the very reason why women do not report men like him because nothing gets done.  Women end up being glad it stops or take steps to evade rather than go through the formal process because they are aware that the law gives him more rights in many respects, especially when it comes to court. 

I hope your friends complaint is upheld but I have my doubts the most you can say is at least he is in the system.
		
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No problem, it is a very long thread 😁

Agree, one can only hope its taken seriously!


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## Backtoblack (13 August 2021)

any update on your friends situation ?


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## Apizz2019 (13 August 2021)

Backtoblack said:



			any update on your friends situation ?
		
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No update from the police yet but her complaint is being reviewed. 

Dare I say it.... It's all gone quiet from the individiual.


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## brighteyes (13 August 2021)

Af


Apizz2019 said:



			No update from the police yet but her complaint is being reviewed.

Dare I say it.... It's all gone quiet from the individiual.
		
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Maybe they have had serious words with him and he's thought better of it. Possibly emboldened by the previous liveries' inaction?


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## Apizz2019 (13 August 2021)

brighteyes said:



			Af

Maybe they have had serious words with him and he's thought better of it. Possibly emboldened by the previous liveries' inaction?
		
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I really hope so! 🤞🤞🤞


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## Roasted Chestnuts (14 August 2021)

Any man who thinks that this is an acceptable thing to do to women needs a serious man to man talk with someone. It’s always after the fact that women get help, it’s disgusting that you have to make a complaint to get someone to take you seriously.

This should have been stamped on from the get go, there needs to be a serious reform of the justice system in this country and we need our police force restored. They are getting more and more powerless and eventually people will start just taking things to themselves.

He’d have got his licks round about here that’s for sure, rural or not someone would have had a word, yes folk can argue that you shouldn’t take the law into your own hands. However after being left the way I have after a man decided that the rules didn’t apply I have very very little regard for the justice system in the UK.


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## ginatina (14 August 2021)

Hi, I'm late to this thread but firstly wanted to say well done to Apizz2019 for writing this here and helping your friend. You are wonderful!

What's so so shocking is that this man has clearly been operating in this way for a LONG time, and that indications are that he's getting *worse*. 

There have been a number of high-profile cases recently of similarly deranged men conducting harassment, threats, violence and stalking, and the police not taking it seriously, only for the man to go on to murder a woman. 

I appreciate your frustrations with the police; they are over-worked and don't take this kind of stuff seriously, over and over and over again. It's disgusting but it's not going to change without us kicking up a *huge* fuss. 

(What makes me extra furious is that my Father in law, an ex-police officer, has recently had trouble from an ASBO neighbour, but certainly a lot less bad than the case you describe. The police could not have been more helpful - it seems that if something is reported by a man, and an ex-cop, then they can find the resources after all.)

You've clearly got a lot of evidence and witnesses ready to contribute, so..

Can i suggest a few courses of action to take?

-Ask each person who is remotely connected to this case to report it to the police *separately*. Ask each of them to lay on as many examples of incidents/messages etc as they can. Any unconnected witnesses (say at her workplace) would be extra helpful.
- Approach the regional newspaper and tell them you have yet another example of the Police not taking a case of harassment seriously. Tell the police you have been in contact with the newspaper. 
- make a complaint here https://www.policeconduct.gov.uk/complaints-reviews-and-appeals/make-complaint

If anyone else has ideas as to how we can amplify the case against this awful man, it would be great to hear them


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## Apizz2019 (14 August 2021)

Cheeky Chestnut said:



			Any man who thinks that this is an acceptable thing to do to women needs a serious man to man talk with someone. It’s always after the fact that women get help, it’s disgusting that you have to make a complaint to get someone to take you seriously.

This should have been stamped on from the get go, there needs to be a serious reform of the justice system in this country and we need our police force restored. They are getting more and more powerless and eventually people will start just taking things to themselves.

He’d have got his licks round about here that’s for sure, rural or not someone would have had a word, yes folk can argue that you shouldn’t take the law into your own hands. However after being left the way I have after a man decided that the rules didn’t apply I have very very little regard for the justice system in the UK.
		
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So hard isn't it but I think my friend is the most sensible of the two of us. 

I 100% respect her wishes and won't do anything that could potentially inflame the situation and given that all has now gone quiet, I hope this will all die a speedy death. 

I'm sorry to hear you've been through a similar situation and hope all is okay now.


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## Apizz2019 (14 August 2021)

ginatina said:



			Hi, I'm late to this thread but firstly wanted to say well done to Apizz2019 for writing this here and helping your friend. You are wonderful!

What's so so shocking is that this man has clearly been operating in this way for a LONG time, and that indications are that he's getting *worse*.

There have been a number of high-profile cases recently of similarly deranged men conducting harassment, threats, violence and stalking, and the police not taking it seriously, only for the man to go on to murder a woman.

I appreciate your frustrations with the police; they are over-worked and don't take this kind of stuff seriously, over and over and over again. It's disgusting but it's not going to change without us kicking up a *huge* fuss.

(What makes me extra furious is that my Father in law, an ex-police officer, has recently had trouble from an ASBO neighbour, but certainly a lot less bad than the case you describe. The police could not have been more helpful - it seems that if something is reported by a man, and an ex-cop, then they can find the resources after all.)

You've clearly got a lot of evidence and witnesses ready to contribute, so..

Can i suggest a few courses of action to take?

-Ask each person who is remotely connected to this case to report it to the police *separately*. Ask each of them to lay on as many examples of incidents/messages etc as they can. Any unconnected witnesses (say at her workplace) would be extra helpful.
- Approach the regional newspaper and tell them you have yet another example of the Police not taking a case of harassment seriously. Tell the police you have been in contact with the newspaper.
- make a complaint here https://www.policeconduct.gov.uk/complaints-reviews-and-appeals/make-complaint

If anyone else has ideas as to how we can amplify the case against this awful man, it would be great to hear them
		
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Thanks so much! I hate to see her like this and if it were not for the fact that he's done this previously, I'd happily pay the monies she doesn't owe, just to keep him quiet.

I really wanted and had hoped someone on here had also been through a similar situation and my post, without giving away too much info, might spur someone to contact me who we don't already know about.

She's awaiting the outcome of the case review but thanks so much for your suggestions, I will definetly pass on to her.

I fully appreciate the police have their hands full, it must be an extremely challenging job and I know they're very low on the ground. It's just a shame for those who these types of incidents will result in injury, physical and/or emotional, and at worst case death at the hands of the perpetrator.

If only we had a crystal ball to see which incidents of this nature will end up being worse case scenario.

It really is a case of the police playing with life and death!


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## mossycup (15 August 2021)

This is so awful - I'm so sorry for your friend. Considering a poor girl was murdered at her yard by a stalked she'd repeatedly reported to the police just this year, you'd think the police would be more switched on about it!!!


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## brighteyes (15 August 2021)

From what I gather, each incident of physical threats or violence needs to be reported first-hand. And no amount of outside 'help' counts or is taken into consideration, not even if the original incident is linked to you in some way. Not sure about murder though.


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## Apizz2019 (16 August 2021)

mossycup said:



			This is so awful - I'm so sorry for your friend. Considering a poor girl was murdered at her yard by a stalked she'd repeatedly reported to the police just this year, you'd think the police would be more switched on about it!!!
		
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You'd think so but I sometimes think it's easier to blame the victim and treat women as hysterical drama queen's, than address the issue.


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