# Weight gain feeds for oldie laminitic - help please!



## doctordoolittle (29 March 2010)

My mum looks after my old pony who is 30 years old and is about 14.2hh probably tb x connemara. She had a hard life before we had her at around age 16 (we were told she was 12!)

She did well last summer and went into winter looking good but has lost quite a bit of weight over winter. She has bright eyes and seems fine in herself and with a rug on she looks fine but she has lost weight on her quarters and is starting to look a bit boney. She has a big fluffy coat which hides some of it.

Obviously we are thinking forward and we need to make sure that she gets enough weight on over summer to take her into winter. However if she is looking poor over summer we will not put her through winter  

She had a bad attack of laminitis a few years ago and has been managed appropriately since and *franticallytouchingwood* has been ok since, in fact last summer she generally seems to have a new lease of life since moving to friends yard last summer.
She has arthritis and had intermittent lameness esp in left hind a few years ago. We gave her joint supplement called biosynov which seemed to eb effective but she developed severe laminitis at the same time whihc may have been a coincidence but obviously we are wary since then so she has not been on a joint supplement since. Touch wood she has been quite well mobility wise since. Mum sometimes gives her danilon when needed but isn't on it at the moment.

Obviously the grass is going to start coming through soon so Mum is concerned about laminitis so wary about changing anything radically that might also trigger it. Mum has just started her on some baileys top spec cubes thought she may just wait a few weeks until she's been out at grass as well and see how she does and then look at introducing some weight gain feeds if no improvement.

Just wanted some advice on feeds for weight gain that are safe in laminitics. No problems with teeth

She is currently going out for an hour or two on days when weather not too bad due to ground conditions but soon will be out as much as possible when weather improves (fingers crossed) in next few weeks. 

She is currently on ad lib hay, gets upto 20kg per day. 
2 feeds of:
heaped stubbs scoop happy hoof
3/4 scoop (small size not the big stubbs one) coarse mix
1/2 scoop baileys top line cubes
Pink powder
oil 

had thought about micronised linseed as I have some that I gave to my horse last year for coat but he became too conditioned! But not sure if this is ok in laminitis. 

Our old shetland (was 42yo when we passed away) used to have teeth problems and we gave him something called gro'n'win that was recommended and that helped him a lot.

have suggested increasing number of feeds to 3 (they always used to have 3 when mum kept them at home) or even 4 but currently can only do 2 due to yard situation but could try if needed in few weeks.

Any ideas?


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## teddyt (29 March 2010)

would cut out the mix and the topline cubes, both will be high in starch and not adviseable for a laminitic. There are also higher energy chaffs than happy hoof that you can feed whilst being safe.
There are several high fibre, low starch/sugar feeds that you can choose from. These include-

Alfalfa 
Alfalfa with oil
Topspec conditioning cubes
Triple crown triple top up (high oil)
Coolstance copra meal (high oil)
Unmollassed sugar beet
Fibrebeet/alfabeet (alfalfa with sugar beet)

Carry on with ad lib hay and work out the overall energy level of your current hard feed. Then select other hard feeds from the list above (im sure there are others, thats just what i can think of) and aim to increase the overall energy content of the diet. Your pony should then gain weight but with less starch and sugar, which is safer from the laminitis point of view. Keep it simple, you dont need to pick several from the list, just feed a greater quantity of 1 or 2 products rather than less of 3 or 4. And yes, half a cup of linseed a day would be fine as it is high in oil, a slow release energy and safe for laminitics. It also has anti-inflammatoryproperties so would help with the arthritis.

With regards to the joint spplement, glucosamine has been linked to insulin resistance, so although not much is known about it in relation to laminitis it may be best to stay off the joint supplement.


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## custard (29 March 2010)

I take it by ad lib hay you mean 20lb not 20kg!  

As teddyt says those feeds are relatively 'safe' for laminitics but some companies sneak in binders and other fillers such as 'brewers grains', 'wheatfeed' etc which are byproducts of cereal production and far from ideal for laminitics.  Also Alfalfa chaff often contains molasses whereas the pellets tend to be purer and you will also pay more for things like alfa beet which is quick soaking for convenience. 

Bearing in mind her age, teeth and ability to absorb her feed I would perhaps give her bucket feeds in the form of a soaked mash made up from the following:

Alfalfa pellets (Dengie or Simple Systems)
Unmolassed beet pellets (Badminton or Simple Systems)
Micronised Linseed (cheapest from Charnwood Mills)
Broad spectrum vitamin/mineral supplement such as Feedmark Benevit which is also linseed based so safer for laminitics.

The result looks disgusting but my two don't seem to mind and have been feeding them like this for a couple of years, the older one looks pretty good for the time of year without being too fat and he's lami prone so have to be careful.


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## CBFan (29 March 2010)

I can't really make any feed recomendations but I would echo what the others have said about feeding her bucket feed as a mash - soak any nuts and avoid cereals as they aren't as easily digested as processed bibre based feeds.

On an oldie we had years ago, stud cubes worked wonders.... OR you could  try topspec anti-lam - as a balancer it will provide her with all the vits and mins she needs and help protect her against lami... I know several horses of all ages shapes and sizes who have been fed this with great results...

Another oldie I knew was fed on soaked fibre / grass pencils...

I'd also look at giving her some speedi-beet or similar - such a small amount can work wonders for their weight and it is sooooooo cheap!


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## SmartieBean09 (29 March 2010)

I second Speedibeet.  Excellent source of calories and fibre. 

Dodson and Horrell High Fibre Cubes are good too.  Keeping fibre passing through the digestive tract will aid weight gain.  

Chaff wise, Dodson and Horrell Fibergy would be good.  DE 9.5 and high in oil.

All of the above is approved by the laminitis society and carries their logo.

Here are some helpful links

http://www.dodsonandhorrell.com/?id=71

http://www.dodsonandhorrell.com/fileadmin/user_upload/pdf/laminitis-support.pdf


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## doctordoolittle (30 March 2010)

thankyou all!

It's a bit difficult as I'm not personally looking after her.  I also thought mix probably wasn't the best idea.  Generally fibre based feeds would be better for her. Her teeth are in good condition for her age and she does get through her hay easily.  Her digestive system isn't the best though as she sometimes scours and has very large diameter droppings.

Spoke to Mum yesterday and she insists she is getting 20kg of hay ( I used to feed and weigh about 10kg to my horse every day so this did seem rather a lot!) but perhaps she got muddled up. 

Had also thought about Winergy feeds as these appear to be much lower in starch than others. 

She has been on Topspec anti lam in the past with good results. she has also been on hi fibre cubes before.

She's on Pink powder as it also helps her digestion.

Will have a read into these things and suggest some changes to Mum and let you know how we get on!


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## dickens (30 March 2010)

Use Speedi beet
Baileys Outshine
Baileys Lo Cal
Global Herbs Laminitis Prone Sujpport liquid

That will help


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