# They say never meet your childhood hero....



## [59668] (30 September 2021)

Went to watch a clinic yesterday with a well known eventer who was a childhood hero of mine. I had posters of her on my wall. 
I was shocked and disappointed by the quality of the clinic, but even more so to hear this person call the participants "a bunch of s*astics" and say to one "if I had a dunce hat you'd be wearing it"
Also, upon asking for someone to go and tackle a jump exercise "no, not you, someone who will do it properly"
So disappointed.


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## Amymay (30 September 2021)

Sounds really disappointing all round ☹️


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## poiuytrewq (30 September 2021)

I can’t believe anyone would think they can get away with saying stuff like that! 😳
That’s really awful. How did the other participants take it?


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## [59668] (30 September 2021)

poiuytrewq said:



			I can’t believe anyone would think they can get away with saying stuff like that! 😳
That’s really awful. How did the other participants take it?
		
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There seemed to be general confusion to be honest. I think people will say it was good just because of who this person is. But IMO the instruction was vague and poor, the participants hardly did anything, there was a lot of suddenly jumping and cantering having stood about for 15 mins and I think I would have walked out to be honest once she used that word.


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## poiuytrewq (30 September 2021)

Intrigued as to who it was but assume you don’t want to say?


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## [59668] (30 September 2021)

poiuytrewq said:



			Intrigued as to who it was but assume you don’t want to say?
		
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I'll PM you.


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## Tiddlypom (30 September 2021)

Oh no.

Feel free to post the name of this person, this really needs to be known.

Belittling participants in front of others is bad enough, but calling them s*astics is totally offensive and appalling .

From wiki

_*Disabled people* in the United Kingdom often consider "s*astic" to be one of the most offensive terms related to disability._


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## meleeka (30 September 2021)

😱


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## [59668] (30 September 2021)

OK here goes. 
Sadly it was Lucinda Green. 
I'm sure she would say she meant no offence etc etc. But I took offence. As I'm sure others must have. It's not OK. 
I was overall just really disappointed with the whole thing.


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## ycbm (30 September 2021)

I wouldn't normally say this,  but if there is more than one witness to this (to protect yourself)  then I think  the trainer needs naming,  that's appalling. 

ETA I see you just have and I'm very disappointed.  Like you she was a childhood hero of mine.  
.


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## millikins (30 September 2021)

At one of my daughter's PC camps a well known SJ, husband of a well known eventer was the star guest to give them a talk. He was late, uninterested and almost dozed off blaming it on jet lag. Poor kids


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## poiuytrewq (30 September 2021)

No offence and S*astic just do not go together. 
I think 99.9% of people would have been offended.


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## Bellaboo18 (30 September 2021)

This is sad to read. Sorry you had this experience. I'd definitely be complaining..


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## ycbm (30 September 2021)

millikins said:



			a well known SJ, husband of a well known eventer
		
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That narrows it down 🤣

I've had show jumping lessons from two GP riders,  one was just useless,  the other said of a participant "she's a nice woman but she's so ****** thick" in clear earshot.


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## [59668] (30 September 2021)

Bellaboo18 said:



			This is sad to read. Sorry you had this experience. I'd definitely be complaining..
		
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I thought about this but I don't know who to? She is so popular....does no one just talk about their real experiences and think they must have had a marvellous time because of who she is? Or blank out or make excuses for the language like that?


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## teapot (30 September 2021)

That surprises me tbh.

May not be everyone's cup of tea (especially when it comes to being allowed to do stuff in clinics, basics first and all that) but have never ever heard a bad word in that respect, and I know a number of people who train/have trained with them.


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## [59668] (30 September 2021)

teapot said:



			That surprises me tbh.

May not be everyone's cup of tea (especially when it comes to being allowed to do stuff in clinics, basics first and all that) but have never ever heard a bad word in that respect, and I know a number of people who train/have trained with them.
		
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I was as surprised as you. I knew she is marmite and can be blunt but I was not prepared for words like that.


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## Quigleyandme (30 September 2021)

I’m disgusted frankly.


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## MotherOfChickens (30 September 2021)

I would have called her out on it tbh-dont care who it is.


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## Rowreach (30 September 2021)

teapot said:



			That surprises me tbh.

May not be everyone's cup of tea (especially when it comes to being allowed to do stuff in clinics, basics first and all that) but have never ever heard a bad word in that respect, and I know a number of people who train/have trained with them.
		
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Doesn't surprise me, from my own experience many years ago.


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## [59668] (30 September 2021)

MotherOfChickens said:



			I would have called her out on it tbh-dont care who it is.
		
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You know when you are just so shocked you don't react. ...that's where I was. 
I'm now wishing I had gone over to the arena fence and told her why I was leaving. And had actually left. But I didn't.


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## MotherOfChickens (30 September 2021)

[59668] said:



			You know when you are just so shocked you don't react. ...that's where I was.
I'm now wishing I had gone over to the arena fence and told her why I was leaving. And had actually left. But I didn't.
		
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Write and tell her, politely. I find it hard to believe that anyone thinks its an acceptable phrase since the 80s but maybe she lives in such a bubble that it still is to her.  If you tell her, then she'll know-its up to her what she does with the info.


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## [59668] (30 September 2021)

MotherOfChickens said:



			Write and tell her, politely. I find it hard to believe that anyone thinks its an acceptable phrase since the 80s but maybe she lives in such a bubble that it still is to her.  If you tell her, then she'll know-its up to her what she does with the info.
		
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This is a good idea and I think I will. She might not give two hoots. But at least I will have stood up for what I think.


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## AShetlandBitMeOnce (30 September 2021)

My OH stopped playing for his Saturday league team because the manager called them a bunch of spa*tics at half time, so even in a place you would expect to be dark humour and lad culture it's not acceptable. I would be disgusted, everyone can have off days but that is beyond that.


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## teapot (30 September 2021)

[59668] said:



			I was as surprised as you. I knew she is marmite and can be blunt but I was not prepared for words like that.
		
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Well, no. There's a line.


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## ihatework (30 September 2021)

She’s a rather eccentric lady and you can get different versions of her. Very disappointing and really not acceptable, ever, but especially so in recent times where we have a whole new level of awareness.

Im still ashamed of a nickname I used to call an old horse of mine a number of years back. Didn’t think anything of it at the time, but I’m embarrassed now!


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## cauda equina (30 September 2021)

That's really sad. 
She stabled a horse at a friend's yard some years ago while competing at a local BE event, and was very helpful when asked for advice about one of the liveries' horses

It's all very well being 'old school' or 'plain speaking' or whatever people want to call it, but you'd have to live under a rock not to know that there are some things you just don't say any more


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## Mule (30 September 2021)

That's very disappointing  I hate that kind of language. I get the impression that people who use that type of language don't know any disabled people personally and that's why they can depersonalise disabled people.
Of course there are lots of people who don't know disabled people and are respectful.

I was wondering about something recently, I've had too many encounters with very difficult horse owners since I started renting out stables.  Having talked to my farrier and other people with livery yards it seems it's pretty common among horse people.

It got me thinking about how so many riders have fallen off and had concussions. I have started to wonder if head injuries may be something to do with it. They can completely change a person's personality after all.


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## AShetlandBitMeOnce (30 September 2021)

cauda equina said:



			It's all very well being 'old school' or 'plain speaking' or whatever people want to call it, but you'd have to live under a rock not to know that there are some things you just don't say any more
		
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Agreed - If we could teach my 92 year old with failing memory, daughter of a pub landlord, life long Liverpool supporter Grandmother that jovial racial banter isn't acceptable when conversing with her visiting carer's, Lucinda has no excuse for any language of that manner, not even being 'old school'.

(Caveat: my point was football, not Liverpool specifically )


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## EventingMum (30 September 2021)

I watched a clinic/demo by her a number of years ago and was underwhelmed by it but talking to people like that is appalling.

As to the sj husband of an event rider, I'm pretty certain I know who is being referred to here. My son had a lesson with him once and it was dire. We saw him teach the same lesson for three different groups, no adjustments made for different levels of ability, comments just constantly repeated with no explanations and just a complete lack of enthusiasm. His wife was doing flatwork lessons the same day and was much more engaged with the riders.

On the other hand, some big names have been absolutely fantastic, lovely people that were really encouraging and helpful. Ones that particularly stick out were Blyth Tait and Christopher Bartle who even took time out when we saw him at an event to ask how things were going and offer further advice.


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## Mule (30 September 2021)

EventingMum said:



			I watched a clinic/demo by her a number of years ago and was underwhelmed by it but talking to people like that is appalling.

As to the sj husband of an event rider, I'm pretty certain I know who is being referred to here. My son had a lesson with him once and it was dire. We saw him teach the same lesson for three different groups, no adjustments made for different levels of ability, comments just constantly repeated with no explanations and just a complete lack of enthusiasm. His wife was doing flatwork lessons the same day and was much more engaged with the riders.

On the other hand, some big names have been absolutely fantastic, lovely people that were really encouraging and helpful. Ones that particularly stick out were Blyth Tait and Christopher Bartle who even took time out when we saw him at an event to ask how things were going and offer further advice.
		
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Mark Todd always seems very pleasant. I've said hello to him a few times when walking a course and  always found him friendly
I've never had a lesson with him but he comes across as a nice person.


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## Arzada (30 September 2021)

[59668] said:



			This is a good idea and I think I will. She might not give two hoots. But at least I will have stood up for what I think.
		
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I would send a copy to the venue as well


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## Baywonder (30 September 2021)

That is absolutely shocking behaviour.  



Mule said:



			Mark Todd always seems very pleasant.
		
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I have also met mark Todd - and yes, he is a lovely guy.

Harvey Smith, however, was a different kettle of fish.  As a young girl, I asked him politely for his autograph. He pulled a face and said "I haven't got time for that" and stomped off.

Malcolm Pyrah, Nick Skelton and David Broome were all lovely too.


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## MuddyMonster (30 September 2021)

That's really sad  I'm glad your writing to her - as someone with a disabled family member, I'm afraid 'being' LG doesn't excuse that. I'm probably not as surprised as I thought I would be - I generally really enjoy her commentating but there were a couple of things she said at the Olympics/Euro's that were a bit close to the wind, or not what I'd expect - and that was knowing they were on the TV! 

There was another big name SJ-er whose rudeness I once witnessed in a demo/clinic staggered me. Ironically, they later went on to complain about the rudeness of another big name rider and how unprofessional they were - whilst explaining how much of a professional they themselves were ...

Mind you, after a couple of my own experience's,  I've come to the conclusion that what I think some professionals in the equine industry think of as being 'professional', can be very different to  professionalism in other business or places of work ... 🤷‍♀️


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## NinjaPony (30 September 2021)

Completely unacceptable behaviour and language, in any context. Definitely complain to the venue, as a professional she should be held up to the bare minimum standards of behaviour eg don’t use highly offensive slurs! Being ‘old-fashioned’ is absolutely not excuse. Sorry you had such a bad experience and thank you for warning anyone else who might not otherwise have known.


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## LegOn (30 September 2021)

I think professionals get bored of teaching/clinics really easily because of their addiction to adrenaline but then if you are that fed up, stop taking peoples money & insulting them... that is completely unacceptable.  

I did a few eventing clinics a good few years ago and it was just disappointing to see the whole lesson taken up with the ego of the 'professional' - when there was a tricky horse, they wanted nothing more than to hop up & 'show it who was boss' & it was cringe & upsetting to watch. Typically I found this more of the men.. but a few of the woman also who had chips on their shoulder.


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## palo1 (30 September 2021)

[59668] said:



			I thought about this but I don't know who to? She is so popular....does no one just talk about their real experiences and think they must have had a marvellous time because of who she is? Or blank out or make excuses for the language like that?
		
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Could you send a message to the organisers or even to her explaining, as tactfully as is appropriate, your experience and feelings about it?  Perhaps no-one has ever raised this with her (they should have done and she should certainly know better in fact) - a direct approach sometimes makes a huge difference.  It is pretty appalling to hear that kind of stuff tbh but I understand how difficult it is to respond at the time.  With practice or training that CAN be done but as you know, when it is someone you have always admired that makes it far harder.


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## HollyWoozle (30 September 2021)

That is really disappointing!


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## Winters100 (30 September 2021)

I am surprised that there was anyone left to teach by the end of the lesson.  That sort of language would see me leave the clinic and demand a refund.  Being old school is not an excuse, growing up in the 80s it was used by some as a derisive term, but one would not expect to hear it from an adult, and as children it was certainly not a word that we were allowed to use. She should know better, and if she does not then she should not be teaching anyone.


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## Chianti (30 September 2021)

Baywonder said:



			That is absolutely shocking behaviour.  



I have also met mark Todd - and yes, he is a lovely guy.

Harvey Smith, however, was a different kettle of fish.  As a young girl, I asked him politely for his autograph. He pulled a face and said "I haven't got time for that" and stomped off.

Malcolm Pyrah, Nick Skelton and David Broome were all lovely too.  

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Many years ago I went to a Harvey Smith demo at the riding school where a friend had lessons. The centre had a club - with a bar. Smith was very late to start and had obviously enjoyed making use of the bar. He was quite p....d and sat and mumbled his way through a question and answer session. Then got on a horse and jumped about 2' - to ironic applause. We left at that point.


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## poiuytrewq (30 September 2021)

ihatework said:



			She’s a rather eccentric lady and you can get different versions of her. Very disappointing and really not acceptable, ever, but especially so in recent times where we have a whole new level of awareness.

Im still ashamed of a nickname I used to call an old horse of mine a number of years back. Didn’t think anything of it at the time, but I’m embarrassed now!
		
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You hit a nail on the head there though haven’t you? 
Years ago we all used the odd bit of language that we didn’t think anything of. 
Now we know better. Or should know better.


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## MinKo (30 September 2021)

Not at all surprised, Tim Stockdale was the worst of the bunch, Ellen Whittaker a waste of money. The only one how was remotely helpful was Geoff Billington


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## Red-1 (30 September 2021)

I did the BHS Instructor of the Year competition one year.  TBH, because it was cheaper than a CPD day.

The judge spent ages telling us how wonderful he was, then sat coffee housing with one of the finalists, then told us how his wonderful yard had to have the window l**kers once a week.

I was furious and wanted to make a complaint to the BHS. However, as I didn't 'win' (the friend who was coffee housing did - she probably should have but it was really unprofessional the way it was done) I felt that the BHS would put it down to sour grapes. TBH, I didn't care who 'won' as I was there for the CPD.

I vowed never to visit their particular 'wonderful' centre though.

BTW., I did do a Lucinda Green clinic once, it was fabulous. Low fences but very complex. Nothing said out of order.


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## Colivet (30 September 2021)

Baywonder said:



			Malcolm Pyrah, Nick Skelton and David Broome were all lovely too.
		
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No personal experience of Nick Skelton, but attended a training session with David Broome who was lovely, positive, funny and educational.  Observed a clinic with Malcolm Pyrah who was teaching riders how to rap their horses and at a dinner later that evening found him bored, boring and frankly hard work


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## Sandstone1 (30 September 2021)

Colivet said:



			No personal experience of Nick Skelton, but attended a training session with David Broome who was lovely, positive, funny and educational.  Observed a clinic with Malcolm Pyrah who was teaching riders how to rap their horses and at a dinner later that evening found him bored, boring and frankly hard work
		
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Many years ago at The Royal show, my friend asked Malcolm Pyrah for his autograph and was told no in a very rude way.


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## Gloi (30 September 2021)

I was quite a quiet , shy , horsey teenager but I still managed to get sworn at by both Harvey Smith and the Duke of Edinburgh.


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## Pearlsasinger (30 September 2021)

MinKo said:



			Not at all surprised, Tim Stockdale was the worst of the bunch, Ellen Whittaker a waste of money. The only one how was remotely helpful was Geoff Billington
		
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The Billingtons were a very helpful family ime.


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## rextherobber (30 September 2021)

Gloi said:



			I was quite a quiet , shy , horsey teenager but I still managed to get sworn at by both Harvey Smith and the Duke of Edinburgh.
		
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This made me laugh!


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## tiga71 (30 September 2021)

That is quite shocking. A friend went to her clinic yesterday so I will ask her how she found it.

A few years ago I 'won' a few lessons with big names. It was on charity auctions and I figured it was the only was I could do anything horsey through the business.

I had a private jump lesson with Trevor Breen. Very good. He was lovely, as was his wife. I also had a private lesson with Christopher Burton. That was great too. He was really helpful and got my cob and us jumping a 1.15 fence at the end of a grid. Never been so happy! I have also done a few Chris Burton clinics and found him very good in those too.
I also did a Gemma Tattersal clinic which was good but a bit too much 'make him go' for my sensitive young horse. Not awful by any means but I think we were a bit green for it at the time.

For a while I was very into going to clinics with the big names, have done some others but can't remember who. But I now realise I get more out of my trusted trainers with a few different clinics from time to time.


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## PictusSweetDreams (30 September 2021)

MinKo said:



			Not at all surprised, Tim Stockdale was the worst of the bunch, Ellen Whittaker a waste of money. The only one how was remotely helpful was Geoff Billington
		
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I bumped into Tim at hoys one year as a teenager. I was so excited to see him and asked for his autograph and he point blank ignored me and walked away. I know they're busy and probably get hassled a lot but it doesn’t warrant being rude.


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## AShetlandBitMeOnce (30 September 2021)

Just because you can do, doesn’t mean you can teach. I am actually worse at teaching the things which come naturally to me as I can’t tell you why, the steps to or how I have done what I have done.. as I’ve just done it and found it easy.  So I don’t blame some of them on that front, no excuse for just being a d*ck though


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## [59668] (30 September 2021)

tiga71 said:



			That is quite shocking. A friend went to her clinic yesterday so I will ask her how she found it.

A few years ago I 'won' a few lessons with big names. It was on charity auctions and I figured it was the only was I could do anything horsey through the business.

I had a private jump lesson with Trevor Breen. Very good. He was lovely, as was his wife. I also had a private lesson with Christopher Burton. That was great too. He was really helpful and got my cob and us jumping a 1.15 fence at the end of a grid. Never been so happy! I have also done a few Chris Burton clinics and found him very good in those too.
I also did a Gemma Tattersal clinic which was good but a bit too much 'make him go' for my sensitive young horse. Not awful by any means but I think we were a bit green for it at the time.

For a while I was very into going to clinics with the big names, have done some others but can't remember who. But I now realise I get more out of my trusted trainers with a few different clinics from time to time.
		
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I'll be interested to hear what your friend thought and if anything inappropriate was said in her session.


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## twobearsarthur (30 September 2021)

Years ago I dragged my extremely non horsey husband to a Jeanette Brakewell clinic. Afterwards he decided to go ask for her autograph, ending up drinking champagne with her and talking about retraining racehorses she indulged him and he dined out on the story in our “horsey circles” for years after. The tale always began “That sounds like the time Jeanette… you know Jeanette Brakewell and I were discussing retraining racehorses over champagne” She has more patience than I do put it that way lol


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## MinKo (30 September 2021)

Many of you won't agree but the word used is in my daily vocabulary and I say it with no Malice, I bet it's the same with her


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## twobearsarthur (30 September 2021)

MinKo said:



			Many of you won't agree but the word used is in my daily vocabulary and I say it with no Malice, I bet it's the same with her
		
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Would you use the N word or homophobic slurs? That’s how bad that word is. Just because you don’t mean any malice doesn’t mean it isn’t extraordinarily offensive and to be honest that isn’t an excuse for using such a derogatory hateful word in any context.


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## ycbm (30 September 2021)

MinKo said:



			Not at all surprised, Tim Stockdale was the worst of the bunch, Ellen Whittaker a waste of money. The only one how was remotely helpful was Geoff Billington
		
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Tim Stockdale was absolutely lovely and gave me an hour of his time and a complete tour of his yard for free when I took a horse to him to assess for top level competition.  Geoff Billington was  really funny and fun and useful to train with,  but he was also the one who was rude about one of the riders that I mentioned above.  The worst lessons I ever had from a top rider were with xxxxxx edited as I see he is still teaching  - an old time Olympic rider who I had really respected.  
.


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## ycbm (30 September 2021)

MinKo said:



			Many of you won't agree but the word used is in my daily vocabulary and I say it with no Malice, I bet it's the same with her
		
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You're right,  I don't agree.  There is never any appropriate use of term,  no matter what the intention.  
.


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## MinKo (30 September 2021)

twobearsarthur said:



			Would you use the N word or homophobic slurs? That’s how bad that word is. Just because you don’t mean any malice doesn’t mean it isn’t extraordinarily offensive and to be honest that isn’t an excuse for using such a derogatory hateful word in any context.
		
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I'm gay so no and am not easily offended so couldn't care less with tbh. Most gay people will use what others think of as offensive words to describe each other same as people of colour. 95% of people on here are way to sensitive


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## MinKo (30 September 2021)

twobearsarthur said:



			Would you use the N word or homophobic slurs? That’s how bad that word is. Just because you don’t mean any malice doesn’t mean it isn’t extraordinarily offensive and to be honest that isn’t an excuse for using such a derogatory hateful word in any context.
		
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🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## ycbm (30 September 2021)

MinKo said:



			I'm gay so no and am not easily offended so couldn't care less with tbh. Most gay people will use what others think of as offensive words to describe each other same as people of colour. 95% of people on here are way to sensitive
		
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That comparison would only apply if you yourself had cerebral palsy and were talking about yourself or others with cerebral palsy who you knew would not be offended.

It is simply not an acceptable term for anyone else to use.

I agree with you that people are often too sensitive, but this isn't one of those times. 
.


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## eggs (30 September 2021)

Tim Stockdale used to teach my riding club and he was always patient and encouraging and pushed you further than you thought you could go without terrifying me.

Some years ago my friend and I went to a clinic with a big name dressage trainer and whilst I was waiting for my turn to ride I heard him making very disparaging comments about my friend who was riding at the time to the person who had organised the clinic.


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## shortstuff99 (30 September 2021)

Unless you are into really specific medicine and need to talk about spastic muscles for some reason, I can't see any reason for using that word.


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## YorksG (30 September 2021)

MinKo said:



			I'm gay so no and am not easily offended so couldn't care less with tbh. Most gay people will use what others think of as offensive words to describe each other same as people of colour. 95% of people on here are way to sensitive
		
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It may well be acceptable for people to describe themselves and any protected characteristics they have, in any way they choose, however it is hardly appropriate to use discriminatory words for disability in the manner described.


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## twobearsarthur (30 September 2021)

MinKo said:



			I'm gay so no and am not easily offended so couldn't care less with tbh. Most gay people will use what others think of as offensive words to describe each other same as people of colour. 95% of people on here are way to sensitive
		
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You’re 100% correct. Marginalised groups often take ownership of certain derogatory terms. However that same term used by someone not within that marginalised group is unacceptable. Like the example you use, a white person should not use the N word however some parts of the black community have taken ownership of the word. Although there are also black academics that think it shouldn’t be used in any context. The original term discussed  has and is used to belittle and dehumanise people with disabilities and that for me is totally unacceptable. I have worked as a psychiatric nurse for 25 years. Trust me I can’t be offended anymore. I just personally choose not to use hurtful words to other people.


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## TPO (30 September 2021)

Reported the post. It's Dun Roamin AGAIN. Don't feed the troll 😏


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## twobearsarthur (30 September 2021)

TPO said:



			Reported the post. It's Dun Roamin AGAIN. Don't feed the troll 😏
		
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I’ve been on this forum for 13 years and they are quite literally the herpes of this forum. The gift that keeps giving!!!


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## HashRouge (30 September 2021)

twobearsarthur said:



			I’ve been on this forum for 13 years and they are quite literally the herpes of this forum. The gift that keeps giving!!!
		
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I'm absolutely howling at this comment!!


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## Winters100 (30 September 2021)

Interesting that this person has such a poor command of the English language.

"Many of you won't agree but the word used is in my daily vocabulary"

Really?  I don't think that any of us are in a position to agree or disagree with the statement that this person uses a certain word on a daily basis.

Whether we believe that this is a correct or polite word to use is another matter, clearly most of us do not.  I suppose however that someone with a poor grasp of the language, or a very low level of education, might perhaps use inappropriate words inadvertently.


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## HashRouge (30 September 2021)

Winters100 said:



			Interesting that this person has such a poor command of the English language.

"Many of you won't agree but the word used is in my daily vocabulary"

Really?  I don't think that any of us are in a position to agree or disagree with the statement that this person uses a certain word on a daily basis.

Whether we believe that this is a correct or polite word to use is another matter, clearly most of us do not.  I suppose however that someone with a poor grasp of the language, or a very low level of education, might perhaps use inappropriate words inadvertently.
		
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*mic drop*

You guys are killing me this evening, what great comments!


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## Pearlsasinger (30 September 2021)

MinKo said:



			Many of you won't agree but the word used is in my daily vocabulary and I say it with no Malice, I bet it's the same with her
		
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I can't say that I am surprised tbh.


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## Peglo (1 October 2021)

Probably I am too young but it’s not illegal to be gay. So trying to shame anyone for apparent relations with the same sex is actually hilarious and pathetic.


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## rextherobber (1 October 2021)

Stressymummy said:



			[Inappropriate quoted content removed]
		
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That's his private life and completely irrelevant to this post,  why have you mentioned it?


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## cauda equina (1 October 2021)

Because they want to get a reaction?
Frankly I'm surprised they are still around


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## Sandstone1 (1 October 2021)

Is Stressymummy also Dunroamin ?   Or have we two ridiculous trolls?


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## mini_b (1 October 2021)

Stressymummy said:



			[Inappropriate quoted content removed]
		
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oh do wind your neck in


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## ycbm (1 October 2021)

Stressymummy said:



			[Inappropriate quoted content removed]
		
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Have you been asleep since the turn of the century?  It isn't news these days that anyone is bi or any other kind of sexual. 

He has great taste,  Birdlip Hill is a beautiful spot, I used to stop there to eat my lunch. 
.


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## AShetlandBitMeOnce (1 October 2021)

The fact that you think it's news or interesting that someone may be gay, bi, curious, bored or otherwise says more about you than anyone else.


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## TPO (1 October 2021)

Sandstone1 said:



			Is Stressymummy also Dunroamin ?   Or have we two ridiculous trolls?
		
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Dun Roamin is currently known to be minko, ickle pickle and baron Samron (my spelling if off but you get the gist).

So SM might be her or is just the most vile person to comment on a death in forum history.


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## Tiddlypom (1 October 2021)

The same Dun Roamin who in a previous incarnation railed bitterly about being discriminated against for being 'obviously gay' (her words), including being chased out of a shop?

Now she can't see the problem perceived in freely using a term long dropped from everyday use as it is now seen highly derogatory to another group? 

Yeah right .


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## MuddyMonster (1 October 2021)

TPO said:



			Dun Roamin is currently known to be minko, ickle pickle and baron Samron (my spelling if off but you get the gist).

So SM might be her or is just the most vile person to comment on a death in forum history.
		
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Thank you - I had no idea of the  multiple user accounts. What a sheltered forum life I lead


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## Annagain (1 October 2021)

Meanwhile back at the thread....

We've had a few big names teach and/or do demos at our riding club. They were all very lovely but Harry Meade was the best of the lot. Taught an excellent clinic all day - similar exercises for all but tailored for the group's ability - then did an evening clinic which was entertaining and informative. After such a long day you could forgive him for wanting to get home but he hung around to talk to kids and sign autographs and was very grateful when I took him a coffee and a burger. I was helping with catering for the night, I'm not just some random person giving strangers food .

The others we've had were Matt Ryan - a very nice man and lots of people really like him but on personal level his style of teaching didn't suit Monty and me (same for Bill Levett); Nick Gauntlett, who was really good and and has taught several camps for us. I didn't see Geoff Billington teach but his demo was really good fun. He's a really naturally funny guy. William Fox Pitt gave a good demo and was very pleasant too but didn't teach for us.


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## jnb (1 October 2021)

I have had a lesson from Jeanette Brakewell  and - despite being waaay below her level (I took a space as someone dropped out last minute) she spotted I didn't have even weight in my stirrups within 2 minutes which my instructor hadn't noticed in 3 years of teaching me! She was lovely and so helpful plus catered for my lack of fitness and numptyism.
I'm pretty shocked about the original subject of this thread, she always seems so down to earth.


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## Uliy (1 October 2021)

Oh I’m so sad to read this, but also glad - as a nervous jumper I’d always imagined someone like her would be lovely. I’m happy to have realised that she wouldn’t be appropriate for me, before paying for the privilege of finding out! 

Glad to hear GB is good. I’ve always hoped to have a lesson with him one day!


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## [59668] (1 October 2021)

I am glad to have so much support.....I was so shocked and saddened.
The second part of the clinic was yesterday, and I didn't go to watch after the first day....but I hear she was the polar opposite of the day before, didn't use any offensive language and was a lot more helpful.  So it seems that some of the remarks about her having very different days is perhaps accurate!  Although honestly if I had been riding on the first day I wouldn't even have gone back for the second....
I am still going to email the venue and get in contact with her/her PA or whoever and let them know what I thought.


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## Fransurrey (1 October 2021)

ycbm said:



			Have you been asleep since the turn of the century?  It isn't news these days that anyone is bi or any other kind of sexual. 

He has great taste,  Birdlip Hill is a beautiful spot, I used to stop there to eat my lunch. 
.
		
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Any sightings of Mark Todd? "'Scuse me. I know you're ...um...busy...but could I have a selfie and autograph?"

SM, I'd add it also isn't news to have sex outdoors. Not everyone's cup of tea, sure, but I think you need more activity in your life.


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## foxy1 (1 October 2021)

I believe 3 people (at least) did not go back for day 2....



[59668] said:



			I am glad to have so much support.....I was so shocked and saddened.
The second part of the clinic was yesterday, and I didn't go to watch after the first day....but I hear she was the polar opposite of the day before, didn't use any offensive language and was a lot more helpful.  So it seems that some of the remarks about her having very different days is perhaps accurate!  Although honestly if I had been riding on the first day I wouldn't even have gone back for the second....
I am still going to email the venue and get in contact with her/her PA or whoever and let them know what I thought.
		
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## AShetlandBitMeOnce (1 October 2021)

foxy1 said:



			I believe 3 people (at least) did not go back for day 2....
		
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Out of how many?   That would have been quite telling to all involved, I'm pleased to hear it! How embarrassing for LG


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## [59668] (1 October 2021)

foxy1 said:



			I believe 3 people (at least) did not go back for day 2....
		
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That's very interesting. I hope it is taken on board.


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## AandK (1 October 2021)

Sad to read this, I have only ever heard good things from people who have gone to LG clinics and although I have not been to one myself, LG came across as a lovely person when I came across her twice years ago (once after a rare clear SJ out eventing, she said something very encouraging as we came out of the ring).

OP, definitely worth writing a letter I think.


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## wills_91 (1 October 2021)

I'd be calling her out on her social media for it personally.


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## stangs (1 October 2021)

wills_91 said:



			I'd be calling her out on her social media for it personally.
		
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I wouldn’t. I appreciate the sentiment, but it also drags you into it all should the post goes viral.


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## wills_91 (1 October 2021)

stangs said:



			I wouldn’t. I appreciate the sentiment, but it also drags you into it all should the post goes viral.
		
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And that's why these kind of people/attitudes still exist, they are never called out or asked to take responsibility for what they say. 

As I said if it was me and I was 100% sure that's what was said its how I'd deal with it and if it went viral it wouldn't bother me


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## teapot (1 October 2021)

wills_91 said:



			And that's why these kind of people/attitudes still exist, they are never called out or asked to take responsibility for what they say.

As I said if it was me and I was 100% sure that's what was said its how I'd deal with it and if it went viral it wouldn't bother me
		
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It can also land you in court if you have no actual proof (witnesses, captured on video). Libel laws do include social media these days.


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## wills_91 (1 October 2021)

teapot said:



			It can also land you in court if you have no actual proof (witnesses, captured on video). Libel laws do include social media these days.
		
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Like I said if I was 100%


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## Aussieventer (1 October 2021)

Personally I’ve always been very disappointed when meeting/riding with my childhood heroes. No one can ever really live up to a fantasy. I spent a week on a working student trial with my ultimate childhood hero and it was dire. I was offered the job but turned it down as I simply could not take my horses there and keep them under the same ridiculous and quite frankly disgusting conditions (the deep litter was not permitted to be topped up or removed until the whole bed was squelching wet, woollen and waterproof rugs to stay on until 24 degrees C etc.). I had read this riders autobiography over and over as a teen and heard the same stories word for word that were in the book quoted at me for a week, and there were rats and holes in the walls of the grooms quarters.
I’ve had lessons and clinics with multiple gold medal winning riders before and none have ever lived up to expectations.
Personally in my experience LG has been one of the best clinics I have ridden at and she didn’t say anything of the sort during my personal experience.

I would have to agree that Chris Burton is wonderful. I had lessons with him for a while before he moved to the UK. Even though I hadn’t had a lesson with him for years he came and helped me in the warmup at an event when he saw from his truck that my horse started stopping in the Sj warm up. I had never had a lesson on that horse with him before and was riding with a different coach but he still took the time out to help. I’ll never forget that generosity.


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## daffy44 (1 October 2021)

I'm so sorry to read this, and I agree that the OP should write to the organiser, because behaviour and language like that is absolutely appalling.

In the interest of balance I have been on two clinics with LG, admittedly a number of years ago, and she was excellent both times, positive, encouraging, brilliant and certainly not offensive, which makes it even sadder for me, that she is so different in the OP's experience.  I also teach a few eventers who have had impromptu help from LG at a couple of events and found her to be great, I really thought she was one of the good guys.


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## RachelFerd (1 October 2021)

Do drop an email to the organiser and PA. I suspect she'll be mortified and suitably apologetic about the use of an offensive word. I don't want to make excuses for anyone, but would also prefer to think it comes from a place of ignorance (which should be corrected) rather than desire to offend. I have found her to be supportive and kind to people at clinics - albeit straight talking when participant safety was in question.


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## thefarsideofthefield (1 October 2021)

daffy44 said:



			I'm so sorry to read this, and I agree that the OP should write to the organiser, because behaviour and language like that is absolutely appalling.

In the interest of balance I have been on two clinics with LG, admittedly a number of years ago, and she was excellent both times, positive, encouraging, brilliant and certainly not offensive, which makes it even sadder for me, that she is so different in the OP's experience.  I also teach a few eventers who have had impromptu help from LG at a couple of events and found her to be great, I really thought she was one of the good guys.
		
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This .
I attended a clinic at Somerford Park with LG in the 90's and thoroughly enjoyed it . I was on a former showjumper who I had recently bought to event and she was really helpful , giving me some brilliant advice ( he found the idea of jumping in the open at speed extremely exciting ! ) . She was certainly quite blunt but not at all rude or disparaging - and we had some pretty quirky horses in my group for her to deal with !,
I know that going to these clinics is such a big deal for us ordinary folk and expectations are high so it's extra disappointing when the people we look up to !et us down like this . I really enjoy thinking back about that lesson so it's sad to hear something that casts a shadow over it .
So sorry for your experience .


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## southerncomfort (1 October 2021)

I loathe witch hunts and the so called cancel culture.

What she said was horrible and inexcusable.  But she is clearly not a horrible person and just needs to be made aware that what she said is considered extremely offensive and give her the chance to apologise/make it right.

Abuse on social media not required. 🙄


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## littleshetland (1 October 2021)

I drove to a local event yard some time ago now, very popular with a fantastic XC course that included a few advanced jumps. As I drove along past the XC course `i noticed someone riding over the huge jumps, making it look so easy.....it was Mary King.  She was so lovely, chatting to me and my daughter about her horse, and let us make a fuss of hers (wish I could remember which horse she had with her - it was one of her advanced ones!).  Lovely lady, so friendly...and a fantastic rider.


just checked with daughter...we think it was Imperial cavalier.


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## fetlock (1 October 2021)

Deleted


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## Smitty (1 October 2021)

Errr, the ageing process doesn't help.

I once met Richard Mead and he being the lovely man that he was, asked the name of my pony,.   Now, in my memory I told him Astronaut, when chronologically it would have been Remus.  

I'm 64, LG is older, just saying...


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## cauda equina (2 October 2021)

Many bangs on the head probably don't help either
When cognitive problems in older sportsmen is talked about it's always in relation to boxers or football or rugby players
I can't believe that people who ride for a living (especially eventers and jockeys) aren't affected too


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## Jellymoon (2 October 2021)

Sadly, when I first started reading this post, before you said who it was, I had guessed. 
I did a clinic of hers many years ago and found her quite unpleasant. I’m not sure she really is a nice person tbh. The way she spoke to us was really rude, she singled out people she liked and ones she really didn’t, and dismissed the rest of us.
I reported back my experiences to my regular trainer, who was eventing internationally at the time at (old) 4* level, and she told me the general consensus among the professionals is that her views and style of coaching are very old fashioned, and while everyone knows she’s a legend, things have moved on and really she’s had her day.
And that was about 15 years ago!
Heaven knows what she’s like now.
Anyway, for the record, I think you should do something. Definitely write to her, and also the venue, and are these clinics sponsored by anyone? If so, write to them.


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## Jellymoon (2 October 2021)

ycbm said:



			Tim Stockdale was absolutely lovely and gave me an hour of his time and a complete tour of his yard for free when I took a horse to him to assess for top level competition.  Geoff Billington was  really funny and fun and useful to train with,  but he was also the one who was rude about one of the riders that I mentioned above.  The worst lessons I ever had from a top rider were with xxxxxx edited as I see he is still teaching  - an old time Olympic rider who I had really respected. 
.
		
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But this sums it up to me. A professional was very friendly to you because you had a top level horse there for him to assess. He saw a potential business opportunity. The proof of how nice and helpful these people are, is when they go out of their way to help the people who don’t offer them anything in return.
And the really bright ones will try to be nice to everyone, including the poor horses,  as you never know when that ordinary person might win the lottery and buy you and Olympic prospect to ride! 😂😂


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## windand rain (2 October 2021)

Your experience sounds like the kind of lesson dished out in the 60's so although not acceptable, age, head injuries and filter failure are possibly to blame. However that said I do understand why it would be offensive and also knew before you said who it was.


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## OldNag (2 October 2021)

Jellymoon said:



			But this sums it up to me. A professional was very friendly to you because you had a top level horse there for him to assess. He saw a potential business opportunity. The proof of how nice and helpful these people are, is when they go out of their way to help the people who don’t offer them anything in return.
And the really bright ones will try to be nice to everyone, including the poor horses,  as you never know when that ordinary person might win the lottery and buy you and Olympic prospect to ride! 😂😂
		
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I guess they all have their good and bad days. TS was incredibly kind to my daughter.


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## ycbm (2 October 2021)

Jellymoon said:



			But this sums it up to me. A professional was very friendly to you because you had a top level horse there for him to assess. He saw a potential business opportunity. The proof of how nice and helpful these people are, is when they go out of their way to help the people who don’t offer them anything in return.
		
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He did go out of his way when i had nothing to offer in return.  

As a complete stranger I wrote asking him what i should do with a horse who was a more talented show jumper than i had ever ridden.  He invited me to his place and he assessed the horse for free. He told me would would be success nationally but that he didnt care enough about touching poles to be top flight.  After that,  and knowing I was a low level eventer and had no contacts which could possibly benefit him him,  he took me round his entire yard and told me about every horse. (The narcolepsy one was interesting! )

I was with him over an hour,  Tim Stockdale was a genuinely nice man and his surviving identical twin Ivan seems the same in more than just his appearance.
.


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## MiJodsR2BlinkinTite (2 October 2021)

What a huge shame, and immensely disappointing, not just because of the apparent lack-lustre of the actual instruction but also the attitude - and language - shown by Ms Green. I too can remember her eventing days and whilst it is accepted she has had to be a hard nut to not just survive in what was then a hard place for a woman to succeed in but to consistently win, this is totally unnecessary!

You would complain if it was anybody else and possibly (if you're cheeky like me, LOL) you'd demand your money back, so why shouldn't you complain simply because it emanated from a "famous" person. It is blatently non-acceptable language and attitude. End of. Complain!

Contrast this with well-renowned Olympians such as Mary King (from my area!) who've spent a lot of time doing clinics especially for younger riders and always seeks to be encouraging and upbuilding.


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## J&S (2 October 2021)

littleshetland said:



			I drove to a local event yard some time ago now, very popular with a fantastic XC course that included a few advanced jumps. As I drove along past the XC course `i noticed someone riding over the huge jumps, making it look so easy.....it was Mary King.  She was so lovely, chatting to me and my daughter about her horse, and let us make a fuss of hers (wish I could remember which horse she had with her - it was one of her advanced ones!).  Lovely lady, so friendly...and a fantastic rider.


just checked with daughter...we think it was Imperial cavalier.
		
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We have had similar experience with Mary King, we met her at Bicton and she was amused that my step daughter was examaning horse poo and asked if she was going to be a vet (which she was/is). Still have the schedule with her autograph on.  When step daughter rode our pony at Bicton I remember her saying " I am going to ride on the same ground as Mary King" when we went through the gates!


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## scats (2 October 2021)

ycbm said:



			I was with him over an hour,  Tim Stockdale was a genuinely nice man and his surviving identical twin Ivan seems the same in more than just his appearance.
.
		
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Ivan is a top bloke, he’s been our dentist now for nearly 30 years (since I was 10) and I love my catch ups with him.  He was so supportive of my career change from teaching to dog grooming and has given me loads of business and financial advice.  I always set aside a good chunk of time when he comes to do my girls coz we spend a lot of it chatting and drinking coffee!
I did meet Tim a few times and he was always lovely too.


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## BBP (2 October 2021)

J&S said:



			We have had similar experience with Mary King, we met her at Bicton and she was amused that my step daughter was examaning horse poo and asked if she was going to be a vet (which she was/is). Still have the schedule with her autograph on.  When step daughter rode our pony at Bicton I remember her saying " I am going to ride on the same ground as Mary King" when we went through the gates!
		
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I remember going to Belton as a super shy little kid, and my mum taking me round the lorry park autograph hunting (my mum wasn’t shy at all!). Mary signed a postcard picture for me and was so lovely, I was so happy excited. Then later in the day she spotted me walking past her lorry again and came over and handed me a signed copy of her book. Such a lovely kind lady, that one thing left an impression on me for my whole life.


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## Jellymoon (2 October 2021)

He was one of the good ones then! That’s nice to hear.


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## Bellaboo18 (2 October 2021)

Re Tim Stockdale, he was my childhood hero, I loved the way he rode and I watched his videos on repeat. I was lucky enough to meet him and I found him to be a lovely, down to earth guy.


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## Bellaboo18 (2 October 2021)

As for Lucinda Green, I'm not *that* surprised, I found her commentary at the Olympics outdated and I wondered if she'd been hiding away in a bubble....turns out she must have been.


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## EchoInterrupted (2 October 2021)

Always such a shame when things like this happen... I find as the public generally starts to have better standards for teaching, it becomes more and more obvious how many people out there cannot teach at all, regardless of how well they may be able to do the task they're trying to teach. Though this seems less a question of teaching quality and more an issue with respect, kindness, and attitude... I hate it when people use the excuse of being "from a different generation" for just being disrespectful, rude, and offensive. Sorry, don't care how long you've been doing this, you should still be able to treat others with kindness.


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## MiJodsR2BlinkinTite (2 October 2021)

J&S said:



			We have had similar experience with Mary King, we met her at Bicton and she was amused that my step daughter was examaning horse poo and asked if she was going to be a vet (which she was/is). Still have the schedule with her autograph on.  When step daughter rode our pony at Bicton I remember her saying " I am going to ride on the same ground as Mary King" when we went through the gates!
		
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I've actually ridden alongside Mary King out hacking! A friend lives nearby and we just happened to "bump into" her when we'd boxed over to friend's place (I live in East Devon). There I was on a hairy muddy cob and there she was on this gorgeous sleek (well groomed!!) horse, riding alongside with us. Lovely lady! We didn't feel at all put-down or inferior. When she came back from the Olympics with her Silver Medal she rode down the main street of the local town to thank everyone for their support!


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## Orangehorse (2 October 2021)

I have heard mixed reports of LG clinics, in one a friend took his horse and it suffered a career ending injury - just one more ditch at the end of the day and the horse was tired and caught her hoof on the edge of the ditch and the remark was "well she won't do that again."  Unfortunately she didn't do much at all ever again.  Which wasn't actually anyone's fault, but it left a bad taste.

However, when it comes to having lessons from famous riders, some are very good riders but terrible instructors and some are lovely and wonderful instructors too.  Not everyone can be a super rider and a coach as they simply do it and don't know how.

Andrew Nicholson is a case in point, I think he virtually stopped teaching as he simply couldn't do it although now he is coaching a team which he said he enjoys, but they are at the top levels.


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## maggiestar (2 October 2021)

wills_91 said:



			And that's why these kind of people/attitudes still exist, they are never called out or asked to take responsibility for what they say.

As I said if it was me and I was 100% sure that's what was said its how I'd deal with it and if it went viral it wouldn't bother me
		
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Calling people out on social media is a brutal way to change behaviour. In this case the kindest and most effective thing would have been to nip it in the bud immediately. You could say, 'Don't use that word Lucinda.' *stern look*. She would have understood. Or if that failed you could could remind her who was paying and that nobody had come to be insulted. We are supposed to be adults. What would Bet Lynch do? Or Joan Collins? Would they creep away and start some anonymous twitter pile on? No they would not. They would tell the miscreant what they thought and it would all be forgotten in seconds.
There is a horrible trend these days of setting the social media dogs on people and watching while the victim is ripped apart. It makes people feel good to be the denouncers and not the heretics. Careers (and lives) can be ended so easily.
Honestly, if someone offends you tell them to their face so they can check their own behaviour. Don't creep away and start a pile on.


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## SatansLittleHelper (2 October 2021)

Bloody woman is lucky I wasn't at the clinic..!!!
My little girl was severely disabled and I detest that word....I'd have lost my shit in a very loud and public manner..!!! 🤬🤬🤬🤬


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## maggiestar (3 October 2021)

SatansLittleHelper said:



			Bloody woman is lucky I wasn't at the clinic..!!!
My little girl was severely disabled and I detest that word....I'd have lost my shit in a very loud and public manner..!!! 🤬🤬🤬🤬
		
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That would have been very understandable. It's a horrible word


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## DrSeuss (3 October 2021)

I'm a rider with cerebral palsy, so an actual sp*stic. When I hear people using that word to denigrate others, I pleasantly ask, "What, so you're saying they're like me? Is that so awful?" Usually they get defensive. "I didn't mean it like that" or "I didn't mean you." So I ask them, politely, which people they did mean, which people they do think is OK to use as an insult. They always shut up then.


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## Equi (3 October 2021)

DrSeuss said:



			I'm a rider with cerebral palsy, so an actual sp*stic. When I hear people using that word to denigrate others, I pleasantly ask, "What, so you're saying they're like me? Is that so awful?" Usually they get defensive. "I didn't mean it like that" or "I didn't mean you." So I ask them, politely, which people they did mean, which people they do think is OK to use as an insult. They always shut up then.
		
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Good for you! People use throwaway words/terms without thinking about it..it takes them to be called up on it and learn their lesson but the biggest impact usually comes from someone such as yourself.


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## cauda equina (3 October 2021)

I hate people using cretin (originally someone with congenital hypothyroidism, which causes physical and intellectual difficulties) as a term of abuse; even otherwise enlightened-seeming people still do it


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## conniegirl (3 October 2021)

cauda equina said:



			I hate people using cretin (originally someone with congenital hypothyroidism, which causes physical and intellectual difficulties) as a term of abuse; even otherwise enlightened-seeming people still do it
		
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I did not know this. Consider me educated on this point. I will endeavour never to use it again.


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## Red-1 (3 October 2021)

SatansLittleHelper said:



			Bloody woman is lucky I wasn't at the clinic..!!!
My little girl was severely disabled and I detest that word....I'd have lost my shit in a very loud and public manner..!!! 🤬🤬🤬🤬
		
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But I think this would have been a fair way to deal with it. I bet other people would have agreed. She would have had a chance to apologise. In her own words from another post, "well she won't do that again." 

You can be (almost) sure she won't anyway. The horse world is small and, no doubt in my mind, someone will have pointed this thread out to her.

I am half disappointed she hasn't come on here to apologise, but then I guess she would be ripped apart and more attention drawn to it if she were to. Maybe she will write to the clinic participants, the riders at least, and apologise for the use of an inappropriate term. I think that is what I would do. 

Being of a previous generation is no excuse, but it can be an explanation. Before I get jumped on, I once said a terribly inappropriate phrase in front of a group of people. It was a phrase that used to be in common use. I had not used it for decades. Goodness only knows why my brain dragged up that phrase that day, I certainly hadn't thought about the meaning. It was a once commonly used phrase, to do with a specific situation, and that situation had occurred, so out the phrase was dragged from the depths of memory, without thought. 

As soon as I said it, I was mortified, as the active brain suddenly worked out what the phrase actually referred to. 

There is no excuse for using that phrase, but I can explain, to myself at least, where it came from, without it meaning that I am some awful person. I will never use that phrase again! It also heightened my awareness of the danger of using once common phrases. The same happened to a friend, same thing, a (different) specific situation occurred which used to be attached to a (different) specific phrase, that she also hadn't thought of for decades, that suddenly shot out without conscious thought. She was fortunate that is was in private, but was equally mortified, and will never do that again. 

In the LG clinic I did, we had some people who were good, some not. One was actually so disruptive, they left about half way through. It was a fair call, if that horse/rider combination had stayed, no one else would have had a lesson. The lesson was great. No wrong language. LG was kind and helpful, even if she did ask if my horse was a riding school horse . I decided not to see that as an insult, he was older, reliable, nondescript! I achieved things that day that I didn't think possible. I have a wonderful photo of my horse, curled round LG, trying to steal from a box of chocolates, whilst having a pee. She thought it was hilarious, encouraging him. A moment in time. I do think that she can teach. 

I doubt LG has anything other than encouragement and compassion for people who have physical challenges. I agree she needed telling: at the time, however explosively, would have been OK. I think she is likely currently mortified and wondering how to put this right. 

So why didn't I tell the man I referred to upthread? He prefaced his comment with, "I know I shouldn't say but..." So, he did know. It was conscious. So, the only way to go would have been a formal complaint. These days, I would do that. At the time, I had no faith in complaining to the BHS about a fellow. At the time, I decided that, if I had won the competition, I would have complained. They could not have denied it then. But, if I had complained as a 'loser' then I am sure that they would have simply said it was sour grapes. I didn't want to walk out half way through as I would have lost the training day, which I needed for my CPD.  Because I didn't deal with it at the time, I have not named the person for a social media witch hunt. TBF, it happened before social media was such a thing anyway.


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## Ambers Echo (3 October 2021)

I misheard the offensive work for a corner shop as a child and thought it was a baccy (Ie selling tobacco) shop. I innocently used that word into my twenties. No one EVER called me out on it and when I did eventually learn what I’d been saying I was mortified. And angry that my apparent casual racism was tolerated.  There are various words we used as insults as a child. Some now seem offensive and some still seem ok but I’m not sure if my offensive vs ok list is the same as other people’s. Language is tricky. It changes rapidly and is further confused when marginalised groups reclaim a word but the general public still need to recognise  it as offensive. I try to give people the benefit of the doubt and focus more on the intent behind the word not the word itself.


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## TPO (3 October 2021)

cauda equina said:



			I hate people using cretin (originally someone with congenital hypothyroidism, which causes physical and intellectual difficulties) as a term of abuse; even otherwise enlightened-seeming people still do it
		
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I had no idea at all about the origins of that word. I thought it was like a made up creepy ghoul type creature out of a horror film 😳🙈 

Now I know better I wouldn't use it again


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## ycbm (3 October 2021)

Red-1 said:



			Being of a previous generation is no excuse, but it can be an explanation. Before I get jumped on, I once said a terribly inappropriate phrase in front of a group of people. It was a phrase that used to be in common use. I had not used it for decades. Goodness only knows why my brain dragged up that phrase that day, I certainly hadn't thought about the meaning. It was a once commonly used phrase, to do with a specific situation, and that situation had occurred, so out the phrase was dragged from the depths of memory, without thought.

As soon as I said it, I was mortified, as the active brain suddenly worked out what the phrase actually referred to.

There is no excuse for using that phrase, but I can explain, to myself at least, where it came from, without it meaning that I am some awful person. I will never use that phrase again! It also heightened my awareness of the danger of using once common phrases. The same happened to a friend, same thing, a (different) specific situation occurred which used to be attached to a (different) specific phrase, that she also hadn't thought of for decades, that suddenly shot out without conscious thought. She was fortunate that is was in private, but was equally mortified, and will never do that again.
		
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Some people also have conditions which makes it more likely to blurt out what comes into their head without thinking it through. I guess it would be possible to say that the thought shouldn't have come into their head,  but for those over a certain age,  many phrases and words that can't be used these days were in their heads daily in common use.  For anyone of Lucinda's age,  that would be true of the word spastic being used as an insult and for all we know she also has one of the neurological conditions that predispose her blurting it out.  

As one of those people myself,  living in daily fear (and I mean fear,  enough to stop me speaking at all at times)  of doing the same,  I agree with you Red, a polite correction at the time is the right response and I regret now contributing to an (albeit minor) social media roasting.
.


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## Regandal (3 October 2021)

Years ago I worked with a social worker who misread a medical report. Patient involved had congenital spasticity of their limbs, the sw referred to the patient as a ‘congenital spastic’.  They then complained to my manager when I corrected them 🙁
Very disheartening.


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## Pearlsasinger (3 October 2021)

This continued reference to 'older people' and 'things were different in those days' drives me mad!  I am 66 and it would never, ever have occurred to me to use words such as 'cretin' and 'spastic' to refer to people in any context.  I have been wondering if this is because of my extensive professional training in equality issues etc but then, I thought 'long before I had any such training, I would never have described any-one in those terms'.  So no, things were NOT different 'in those days',  and it still drives me mad!


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## southerncomfort (3 October 2021)

I still see people using an old fashioned and very offensive word that was used to refer to people with Downs Syndrome.

It's horrible and makes me cringe every time I hear or see it.  It's mostly by the younger generation and I suspect they don't understand the word they're using, so I'm going to educate them from now on.


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## Arzada (3 October 2021)

Pearlsasinger said:



			This continued reference to 'older people' and 'things were different in those days' drives me mad!  I am 66 and it would never, ever have occurred to me to use words such as 'cretin' and 'spastic' to refer to people in any context.  I have been wondering if this is because of my extensive professional training in equality issues etc but then, I thought 'long before I had any such training, I would never have described any-one in those terms'.  So no, things were NOT different 'in those days',  and it still drives me mad!
		
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Nor me. Possibly because the words weren't in my environment as I grew up and also later working with people with SEN such terms were never heard. It does worry me that if I lose my filters, if eg dementia strikes, that I may use some offensive term simply because it is lurking in my residual memory. It was only in 1994 that SCOPE changed its name from The S Society and I clearly remember their child sized collection 'boxes' outside many shops.


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## stangs (3 October 2021)

southerncomfort said:



			It's horrible and makes me cringe every time I hear or see it.  It's mostly by the younger generation and I suspect they don't understand the word they're using, so I'm going to educate them from now on.
		
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Yes, I do suspect it’s a lack of knowledge. 

To give a more mild example - when I was younger, I went through a phase where I used the word tw*t all the time. Occasionally, an adult reprimanded me for the usage, to which I would respond “it’s just slang though?”, having no idea of the actual meaning and assuming its etymology wasn’t very different to ‘idiot’. But had someone told me that I was referring to a sexual organ, I would have stopped saying it pretty quickly.


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## Goldenstar (3 October 2021)

Pearlsasinger said:



			This continued reference to 'older people' and 'things were different in those days' drives me mad!  I am 66 and it would never, ever have occurred to me to use words such as 'cretin' and 'spastic' to refer to people in any context.  I have been wondering if this is because of my extensive professional training in equality issues etc but then, I thought 'long before I had any such training, I would never have described any-one in those terms'.  So no, things were NOT different 'in those days',  and it still drives me mad!
		
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Cretin ,a term I would never use , is used on here now and again it’s a really disgraceful use of language .
Neither word should be used .
However I would not expect the user to be cancelled for use of language like that .
Call it out move on.
I can remember my mother explaining the word spastic to me outside a shop where they had one of children things to but money in I was not very tall so it must have the late sixties early seventies .


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## Pearlsasinger (3 October 2021)

Goldenstar said:



			Cretin ,a term I would never use , is used on here now and again it’s a really disgraceful use of language .
Neither word should be used .
However I would not except the user to be cancelled for use of language like that .
Call it out move on.
I can remember my mother explaining the word spastic to me outside a shop where they had one of children things to but money in I was not very tall so it must have the late sixties early seventies .
		
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We have a quite up-to-date example of an established forum user writing the term associated with Down's Syndrome in a thread title.  The user wasn't banned but the thread was taken down after several members reported it.  I'm not sure what you mean by 'cancelled', so took it to mean banned.


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## windand rain (3 October 2021)

Pearlsasinger said:



			This continued reference to 'older people' and 'things were different in those days' drives me mad!  I am 66 and it would never, ever have occurred to me to use words such as 'cretin' and 'spastic' to refer to people in any context.  I have been wondering if this is because of my extensive professional training in equality issues etc but then, I thought 'long before I had any such training, I would never have described any-one in those terms'.  So no, things were NOT different 'in those days',  and it still drives me mad!
		
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I am much the same age but in my lifetime things have changed hugely The words used were acceptable language and no one thought anything about it the corner shop was the **** shop the S society openly used the word in advertising, horse trainers yelled abuse at their clients and teachers and police clouted the kids to toe the line. None are now acceptable, never were, but it was a different world not at all PC so anyone that didn't see it were very sheltered. My abiding memory of primary school was a 7 year old being flogged with a rounders bat. His crime was to set fire to a barn and drowned a litter of piglets. Life was a lot more black and white then more abusive in a lot of ways and of course harsher on everything. So no rose tinted specs here I was brought up in a very wealthy family but never failed to see the horror of life around me. I lived in a rural area, went to public school, and still came across being called abusive names and serious bullying from young and old. It is now being called out and life is a lot kinder


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## cauda equina (3 October 2021)

I agree, things have changed a lot
Growing up in the 60s/70s people like Jim Davidson and Bernard Manning were regularly on tv
They were offensive in a different way, but a different side of the same coin imo; it was pointing out/mocking differences and many people, tv executives included, thought it was fine and an acceptable subject for entertainment


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## Backtoblack (3 October 2021)

cauda equina said:



			I agree, things have changed a lot
Growing up in the 60s/70s people like Jim Davidson and Bernard Manning were regularly on tv
They were offensive in a different way, but a different side of the same coin imo; it was pointing out/mocking differences and many people, tv executives included, thought it was fine and an acceptable subject for entertainment
		
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indeed they did. Terrible times. page 3 girls I had a terrible body image as a teenager because of tv and adverts and page 3. it has affected my whole adult life.  and then theres Jimmy saville........


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## BlackRider (3 October 2021)

Hope you get a decent response from the venue OP.

Since my accident its surprised me how much people use the term "crippled" to say they've hurt themselves...


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## cauda equina (3 October 2021)

I am sorry, BlackRider
That must be difficult for you


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## Pearlsasinger (3 October 2021)

windand rain said:



			I am much the same age but in my lifetime things have changed hugely The words used were acceptable language and no one thought anything about it the corner shop was the **** shop the S society openly used the word in advertising, horse trainers yelled abuse at their clients and teachers and police clouted the kids to toe the line. None are now acceptable, never were, but it was a different world not at all PC so anyone that didn't see it were very sheltered. My abiding memory of primary school was a 7 year old being flogged with a rounders bat. His crime was to set fire to a barn and drowned a litter of piglets. Life was a lot more black and white then more abusive in a lot of ways and of course harsher on everything. So no rose tinted specs here I was brought up in a very wealthy family but never failed to see the horror of life around me. I lived in a rural area, went to public school, and still came across being called abusive names and serious bullying from young and old. It is now being called out and life is a lot kinder
		
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I certainly haven't led a sheltered life!  I was brought up in a rural village and yes Scope had a different name but that didn't mean that we called people without that particular disability, by that name, any more than we used the older term for those with Down's Syndrome for people without it.  Perhaps it was your public school environmentthat would have been thought unacceptable where I grew up. Incidentally one of my classmates, who lived on the same street, was a wheelchair user, eventually. He had a degenerative condition, muscular dystrophy, which possibly gave us a more enlightened view of disablility.


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## ycbm (3 October 2021)

Pearlsasinger said:



			So no, things were NOT different '
		
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Well if they weren't different in those days where you lived then you must have been living in a very sheltered place.  There are many,  many words used routinely in those days without comment which are widely known to be unacceptable now.  There were many programs on TV and films in the cinema which went without comment which wouldn't even be shown now. I think we all know what the response would be if someone submitted the pilot script for Love Thy Neighbour today.

I find it ridiculous to suggest that things have not changed.


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## Rowreach (3 October 2021)

ycbm said:



			Well if they weren't different in those days where you lived then you must have been living in a very sheltered place.  There are many,  many words used routinely in those days without comment which are widely known to be unacceptable now.  There were many programs on TV and films in the cinema which went without comment which wouldn't even be shown now. I think we all know what the response would be if someone submitted the pilot script for Love Thy Neighbour today.

I find it ridiculous to suggest that things have not changed.
		
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A lot of things have changed, thank goodness.

I'm quite surprised that the "defence" of the use of certain language is that it was normal in the 70s.  That's half a century ago.  Plenty of time for anyone really to be up to speed on not using certain words, ever.


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## Pearlsasinger (3 October 2021)

BlackRider said:



			Hope you get a decent response from the venue OP.

Since my accident its surprised me how much people use the term "crippled" to say they've hurt themselves...
		
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2 members of my family are wheelchair users, they both comment on how rude the general public can be, doing things like reaching over them to get goods from supermarket shelvesand simply behaving as though they are invisible.


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## Pearlsasinger (3 October 2021)

ycbm said:



			Well if they weren't different in those days where you lived then you must have been living in a very sheltered place.  There are many,  many words used routinely in those days without comment which are widely known to be unacceptable now.  There were many programs on TV and films in the cinema which went without comment which wouldn't even be shown now. I think we all know what the response would be if someone submitted the pilot script for Love Thy Neighbour today.

I find it ridiculous to suggest that things have not changed.
		
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I did not say that things haven't changed and I was not discussing racism.  I said that it is too easy to say 'things used to be different'.  It was always considered rude where I grew up to insult people.
I am not saying that the words under discussion, in particular the old names for Down's Syndrome and CP, were not used to describe people with those conditions but I am saying that those terms were not used about other people, without those disabilities, because it would have been considered rude to do so.
Maybe your parents and teachers would not have commented if you had been rude to others, mine would have.


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## ycbm (3 October 2021)

Rowreach said:



			A lot of things have changed, thank goodness.

I'm quite surprised that the "defence" of the use of certain language is that it was normal in the 70s.  That's half a century ago.  Plenty of time for anyone really to be up to speed on not using certain words, ever.
		
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I don't see anyone defending the use of "certain language" except one troll who has been widely criticised. 
.


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## ycbm (3 October 2021)

Pearlsasinger said:



			I am not saying that the words under discussion, in particular the old names for Down's Syndrome and CP, were not used to describe those people but I am saying that those terms were not used about other people, without those disabilities
		
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They were where I grew up, which was Plymouth, Portsmouth, Chatham, Pembrokeshire(Dyfed),  Dunbartonshire and Singapore. 
.


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## Rowreach (3 October 2021)

ycbm said:



			I don't see anyone defending the use of "certain language" except one troll who has been widely criticised.
.
		
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I'm not going to highlight any particular posts but there have been a few "she's of a certain age she probably doesn't realise" comments, which is what I was referring to.  Most of us in and around that age would well remember when words that were commonly used became utterly unacceptable.  And have had a few decades since to practise not using them.


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## YorksG (3 October 2021)

ycbm said:



			They were where I grew up, which was Plymouth, Portsmouth, Chatham, Pembrokeshire(Dyfed),  Dunbartonshire and Singapore. 
.
		
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Were these general public, or military bases?


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## ycbm (3 October 2021)

YorksG said:



			Were these general public, or military bases?
		
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A mix of both at the same time,  I only went to general state schools even when we lived in married quarters.  I'm amazed that it wasn't normal for you and your sister to hear the S,  M and C words fairly routinely,  it certainly was for me.  Did you have any brothers or play with boys much?  It was normally boys who were saying it.
.


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## YorksG (3 October 2021)

If anyone had used those words at either of the village schools, they would very quickly have been put on their place, as would anyone using them in any of the social groups.  we had a mixture of people with intellectual and physical difficulties attend our village school and there was a very strong ethos of inclusivity. 
This was common among the pennine mill villages from over a century ago


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## ycbm (3 October 2021)

YorksG said:



			If anyone had used those words at either of the village schools, they would very quickly have been put on their place, as would anyone using them in any of the social groups.  we had a mixture of people with intellectual and physical difficulties attend our village school and there was a very strong ethos of inclusivity.
This was common among the pennine mill villages from over a century ago
		
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I would expect that to be the case in most places now,  50-60 years after the time I was describing. Things have changed.  
.


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## YorksG (3 October 2021)

ycbm said:



			I would expect that to be the case in most places now,  50-60 years after the time I was describing. Things have changed.  
.
		
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No I am talking about 50 years and more ago!


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## Pearlsasinger (3 October 2021)

Rowreach said:



			I'm not going to highlight any particular posts but there have been a few "she's of a certain age she probably doesn't realise" comments, which is what I was referring to.  Most of us in and around that age would well remember when words that were commonly used became utterly unacceptable.  And have had a few decades since to practise not using them.
		
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And not only that but would not have used those particular words to describe people to whom they were not applicable, as an insult *at any point*.  
To get back to OP, whether or not LG knows that those particular words are considered unacceptable, even to describe people living with those conditions, what on earth makes her think that it is acceptable to insult people who are paying for your services?


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## ycbm (3 October 2021)

YorksG said:



			No I am talking about 50 years and more ago!
		
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That's what I said,  it was 50-60 years ago that the bad stuff was happening outside your area and I would expect all areas to be more like yours was by now.  
.


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## Pearlsasinger (3 October 2021)

ycbm said:



			That's what I said,  it was 50-60 years ago
.
		
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????????


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## windand rain (3 October 2021)

Under no circumstances is it currently acceptable but 60 years ago it was normal for kids especially boys playing football to call each others these names now it is cruder and just as offensive f*****g T**ts or other such insults. I guess things move on but stay the same. I was brought up in a very sheltered and proper environment but still heard the insults hurled at those who appeared not to understand being called all the disabled names as an insult and yes my disabled downs cousin was referred to as a M***** no one had ever heard of Downs in those days
I will also add that I was never allowed to insult people in any way and would have been belted round the ear if I had another thing that has changed


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## Sussexbythesea (3 October 2021)

I do remember such terms as “spastic” being commonly used in the playground. Kids used to use the word “Joey” said in a slurred kind of way whilst smacking the back one hand with the other to indicate you’d done something stupid. It wasn’t until some years later that I twigged it was in reference to Joey Deacon featured in Blue Peter. I certainly didn’t understand at the time where it was derived from and how awful the usage was. Shameful when I think of it. 

These days I am the sort of person who would call out use of offensive language these days but do believe in most cases education is better than vilification.


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## Annagain (3 October 2021)

Those words weren’t used in full when I was a kid in the 80s but shortened versions certainly were and usually to refer to somebody (usually a friend) saying/doind something particularly stupid (in terms of the Downs Syndrome related word) or physically inept (with the cerebral palsy related word). I don’t think we ever realised what they actually were short for (I certainly didn’t) and we would never have used the words in full. As soon as I did work it out (I’d have been in my early teens) I never used them again.

I understand that someone might but uneducated in these matters (my FiL law genuinely though “ethnics” was the correct term until OH told him) but once it’s pointed out to you it is entirely possible to change your habits if you care enough about it.

One of the things that annoys me the most is when somebody says “he/she is Downs Syndrome”. They are not the condition and the condition is not them. “He/she has Downs Syndrome” is no more difficult to say and so much more representative of the person.


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## milliepops (3 October 2021)

ycbm said:



			A mix of both at the same time,  I only went to general state schools even when we lived in married quarters.  I'm amazed that it wasn't normal for you and your sister to hear the S,  M and C words fairly routinely,  it certainly was for me.  Did you have any brothers or play with boys much?  It was normally boys who were saying it.
.
		
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all those words were in common use when i was at school in the 80s/90s.
Round here it was about the time the S word started to feel iffy.
state primary and secondary.  I don't think anyone knew that M and C were *wrong* at that point.
 I just remembered in the early 2000s working at a place that used the word Flid which is also pretty offensive. Given the context i honestly think no one knew the background.


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## little_critter (3 October 2021)

milliepops said:



			all those words were in common use when i was at school in the 80s/90s.
Round here it was about the time the S word started to feel iffy.
state primary and secondary.  I don't think anyone knew that M and C were *wrong* at that point.
 I just remembered in the early 2000s working at a place that used the word Flid which is also pretty offensive. Given the context i honestly think no one knew the background.
		
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I’ve honestly never heard of flid, i had to google to understand that one.


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## Winters100 (3 October 2021)

Pearlsasinger said:



			This continued reference to 'older people' and 'things were different in those days' drives me mad!  I am 66 and it would never, ever have occurred to me to use words such as 'cretin' and 'spastic' to refer to people in any context.  I have been wondering if this is because of my extensive professional training in equality issues etc but then, I thought 'long before I had any such training, I would never have described any-one in those terms'.  So no, things were NOT different 'in those days',  and it still drives me mad!
		
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100% agree.  These may have been words used by some in the past, but they were never acceptable, in the same way that there are many commonly used words today which no polite person would dream of using.  

I learned very young that this sort of thing was not acceptable. I don't know how old I was, but younger than 8 as I was still at day school, and my Father heard me laughing with a friend at how bad another child was at tennis, and using an unacceptable word to describe them.  He made me walk the 9 miles home from the tennis courts while following in the car to make sure that I was safe. It took a few hours, when we got home I could see how disappointed he was with me, and he just told me that I had no right to laugh at anyone else or to call them names, ever.  I still feel ashamed of it to this day, but it was a good lesson, as it has never been forgotten.


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## windand rain (3 October 2021)

I didn'tknow what flid was in my area it means having a temper tantrum


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## onemoretime (3 October 2021)

Tiddlypom said:



			Oh no.

Feel free to post the name of this person, this really needs to be known.

Belittling participants in front of others is bad enough, but calling them s*astics is totally offensive and appalling .

From wiki

_*Disabled people* in the United Kingdom often consider "s*astic" to be one of the most offensive terms related to disability._

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Agree this person needs to be know!  what a nasty unkind name to call someone!


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## onemoretime (3 October 2021)

[59668] said:



			OK here goes.
Sadly it was Lucinda Green.
I'm sure she would say she meant no offence etc etc. But I took offence. As I'm sure others must have. It's not OK.
I was overall just really disappointed with the whole thing.
		
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Wow I would not have believed it of her.  What is the matter with her????


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## onemoretime (3 October 2021)

MinKo said:



			Not at all surprised, Tim Stockdale was the worst of the bunch, Ellen Whittaker a waste of money. The only one how was remotely helpful was Geoff Billington
		
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I went to watch a Tim Stockdale demo once and he was lovely.  He was very funny without being offensive and I found him to be a very nice man.


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## ycbm (3 October 2021)

Winters100 said:



			100% agree.  These may have been words used by some in the past, but they were never acceptable, in the same way that there are many commonly used words today which no polite person would dream of using.

I learned very young that this sort of thing was not acceptable. I don't know how old I was, but younger than 8 as I was still at day school, and my Father heard me laughing with a friend at how bad another child was at tennis, and using an unacceptable word to describe them.  He made me walk the 9 miles home from the tennis courts while following in the car to make sure that I was safe. It took a few hours, when we got home I could see how disappointed he was with me, and he just told me that I had no right to laugh at anyone else or to call them names, ever.  I still feel ashamed of it to this day, but it was a good lesson, as it has never been forgotten.
		
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I wish  people who lived in areas where the misuse of these terms was uncommon  and unacceptable would stop trying to tell those of us who lived in areas where it was common and acceptable that we didn't!

I told my husband  earlier that  people on the forum were saying that when they grew up the  M S and C words were never misused and his jaw dropped almost of his face.  Even his adult football trainers used the S and C words to the boys they were training in the early 70's.

ETA it wasn't universal but clearly from other people's posts above it was common.  But we are talking 50 years ago.  Things have changed since,  thankfully.
.


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## onemoretime (3 October 2021)

TPO said:



			Reported the post. It's Dun Roamin AGAIN. Don't feed the troll 😏
		
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Which one is Dun roamin, the original poster or who?


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## TPO (3 October 2021)

onemoretime said:



			Which one is Dun roamin, the original poster or who?
		
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Dun roamin is minko, ickle pickle and baron samreon (my spelling is wrong). They probably have other user names as theres multiple old users in here under other guises 

OP not a troll 😊


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## onemoretime (3 October 2021)

Bellaboo18 said:



			Re Tim Stockdale, he was my childhood hero, I loved the way he rode and I watched his videos on repeat. I was lucky enough to meet him and I found him to be a lovely, down to earth guy.
		
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Yes Tim Stockdale was a lovely man and a very good horseman.


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## onemoretime (3 October 2021)

TPO said:



			Dun roamin is minko, ickle pickle and baron samreon (my spelling is wrong). They probably have other user names as theres multiple old users in here under other guises

OP not a troll 😊
		
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Ah thanks for that.  My goodness Dunroamin must have a good memory to keep up all those accounts, I have a job with just one.


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## Sussexbythesea (3 October 2021)

little_critter said:



			I’ve honestly never heard of flid, i had to google to understand that one.
		
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Flid was commonly used in my teens and still is somewhat  I genuinely had no idea until I just looked it up this very day what the etymology was.


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## spotty_pony (3 October 2021)

Blimey! How rude of her! 😳


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## Pearlsasinger (3 October 2021)

windand rain said:



			Under no circumstances is it currently acceptable but 60 years ago it was normal for kids especially boys playing football to call each others these names now it is cruder and just as offensive f*****g T**ts or other such insults. I guess things move on but stay the same. I was brought up in a very sheltered and proper environment but still heard the insults hurled at those who appeared not to understand being called all the disabled names as an insult and yes my disabled downs cousin was referred to as a M***** no one had ever heard of Downs in those days
I will also add that I was never allowed to insult people in any way and would have been belted round the ear if I had another thing that has changed
		
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The whole point being that in those days the correct term for the condition was M***** but it was only an insult if applied to those who did not have the condition.
The reason for the term was that the physical characteristics are reminiscent of the 'Mongol Hordes' who lived in a particular part of Asia and were led by Ghengis Khan.


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## Pearlsasinger (3 October 2021)

Annagain said:



			Those words weren’t used in full when I was a kid in the 80s but shortened versions certainly were and usually to refer to somebody (usually a friend) saying/doind something particularly stupid (in terms of the Downs Syndrome related word) or physically inept (with the cerebral palsy related word). I don’t think we ever realised what they actually were short for (I certainly didn’t) and we would never have used the words in full. As soon as I did work it out (I’d have been in my early teens) I never used them again.

I understand that someone might but uneducated in these matters (my FiL law genuinely though “ethnics” was the correct term until OH told him) but once it’s pointed out to you it is entirely possible to change your habits if you care enough about it.

One of the things that annoys me the most is when somebody says “he/she is Downs Syndrome”. They are not the condition and the condition is not them. “He/she has Downs Syndrome” is no more difficult to say and so much more representative of the person.
		
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I had to correct a Headteacher when I was working as SENCo in her school, she honestly thought it was acceptable an wrote it in her minutes of meetings, you do have to wonder!  I'm not sure she ever forgave me, tbh. 
But then she never forgave me for being the person who  was brought flowers  by  a parent when I realised what was probably causing her daughter's problems and referred her to the correct proessional to get a diagnosis and treatment.  H/T was somewhat mifffed!  Silly woman


ETA, this was 20 yrs ago.


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## Boulty (3 October 2021)

Firstly really saddened that someone of that standing thinks it's ok to treat paying clients like that (regardless of language as implying someone is going to make a mess of something before they do it is not nice. Have been on the receiving end of that both in the horsey world & outside it)

Oh & just to say that some (usually shortened) form of just about every offensive term listed (plus a few more... For some reason calling everything "gaaaay" was the in thing) were in regular daily use (esp by the boys) when I was at school in the 90s & 00s (well maybe more at secondary school as we weren't even allowed to say bloody at the rather strict Christian primary school!)  I don't think any of us knew the origin / actual meaning of most of them but I think we were aware they were offensive as generally that was the point of using them.   I wouldn't say my school was particularly bad / in a bad area either.  (Although if anyone has seen Ladhood on BBC3 a lot of that rings true & is sort of based on the high school I went to although I don't think any of it was filmed there)  I don't intentionally use such words now in day to day life although will admit to calling the horse/cat a cretin on occasion when they have done something especially suicidal without really thinking what it meant


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## Sossigpoker (3 October 2021)

Ambers Echo said:



			I misheard the offensive work for a corner shop as a child and thought it was a baccy (Ie selling tobacco) shop. I innocently used that word into my twenties. No one EVER called me out on it and when I did eventually learn what I’d been saying I was mortified. And angry that my apparent casual racism was tolerated.  There are various words we used as insults as a child. Some now seem offensive and some still seem ok but I’m not sure if my offensive vs ok list is the same as other people’s. Language is tricky. It changes rapidly and is further confused when marginalised groups reclaim a word but the general public still need to recognise  it as offensive. I try to give people the benefit of the doubt and focus more on the intent behind the word not the word itself.
		
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English isn't my first language so when i started getting involved with horses about 20 years ago in this country,  lots of terms were alien to me.
Like , i thought that a good doer is a horse that tries really hard! 🤣
I had an instructor who used to say that a horse was having "a sp@zzy" when a horse was freaking out or having a silly moment. And I took it to be another horsey term , like good doer. I actually used it for years without anyone ever correcting me! Perhaps because they were trying to decide between picking someone up over unacceptable language and picking on a foreigner and their English.  🤣
When someone finally pointed it out , I was mortified. It still makes me cringe,  nearly 20 years later! But I'm of course grateful that someone did clarify what it mean to me or goodness know what trouble I could have caused!

So maybe someone should point this out to LG so that she hopefully learns from it? And learns that it's not accepted any more even if in her mind it's OK.


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## Sossigpoker (3 October 2021)

Oh and also , if ant instructor,  no matter how famous ,made a derogatory comment about my ability in a lesson/clinic , I would kick off.
Those riders had all paid good money to be there and if one of them was struggling,  they didn't deserve to be insulted and offended like that. 
The instructor's job is to teach and guide - putting someone down is neither.


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## DrSeuss (4 October 2021)

ycbm said:



			I would expect that to be the case in most places now,  50-60 years after the time I was describing. Things have changed.
		
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Things haven't changed, not really. The word sp*stic was dropped not just because of developments in medical knowledge (e.g. the fact that there are different subtypes of cerebral palsy) but because the word became such a common insult that there was no way to use it without it sounding horrible. Just the other day I heard a colleague criticising another colleague and describing him as "a bit special". Special needs was intended as a polite term, but people use it to insult others because they see disability as a shameful insulting thing. This for me is the problem. I wouldn't be bothered if a 70 year old woman described me as sp*stic, because I know she might mean it as just a neutral statement of fact. I would mind if someone used it as an insult and prefaced their statement with, "No offence", because that tells me they know exactly what they're doing.

This is not just about words. It's about how disabled people are seen and treated. Despite how we're often viewed, disability =/= being bad at things. There are people with cerebral palsy who are excellent riders, so criticising a rider by saying they look like they have CP makes about as much sense as saying they ride as if they've got red hair, or blue eyes. In cases where someone's disability does affect their skill, that's still not grounds for insult. So I walk like I'm an ambassador for the Ministry of Silly Walks. Why exactly is that a thing to mock me for? It's not hurting anybody. This is me just going about my day. It's not that I need pity over my mobility, I just need people to respect that humans are different and there isn't really any one 'normal' way to do things. If people truly got that, they wouldn't ever be using disability as a term of insult, because the insult would just be meaningless.[/QUOTE]


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## maggiestar (4 October 2021)

DrSeuss said:



			Things haven't changed, not really. The word sp*stic was dropped not just because of developments in medical knowledge (e.g. the fact that there are different subtypes of cerebral palsy) but because the word became such a common insult that there was no way to use it without it sounding horrible. Just the other day I heard a colleague criticising another colleague and describing him as "a bit special". Special needs was intended as a polite term, but people use it to insult others because they see disability as a shameful insulting thing. This for me is the problem. I wouldn't be bothered if a 70 year old woman described me as sp*stic, because I know she might mean it as just a neutral statement of fact. I would mind if someone used it as an insult and prefaced their statement with, "No offence", because that tells me they know exactly what they're doing.

This is not just about words. It's about how disabled people are seen and treated. Despite how we're often viewed, disability =/= being bad at things. There are people with cerebral palsy who are excellent riders, so criticising a rider by saying they look like they have CP makes about as much sense as saying they ride as if they've got red hair, or blue eyes. In cases where someone's disability does affect their skill, that's still not grounds for insult. So I walk like I'm an ambassador for the Ministry of Silly Walks. Why exactly is that a thing to mock me for? It's not hurting anybody. This is me just going about my day. It's not that I need pity over my mobility, I just need people to respect that humans are different and there isn't really any one 'normal' way to do things. If people truly got that, they wouldn't ever be using disability as a term of insult, because the insult would just be meaningless.
		
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[/QUOTE]

I was in a riding lesson once and the instructor asked if I was 'special ' because I missed one of her barked cues. I'm glad I'm old enough and ugly enough to face these bullies down. I told her that I was indeed special. We are all special.
People can be horribly ignorant about the meaning of words and the hurt they can cause when tossed around. I pray for a kinder age.


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## Red-1 (4 October 2021)

It isn't that long ago that 'gay' was in common usage in our area amongst young teens. It was being used to mean unfashionable. I have also been called 'a bit special' when I have been forgetful and clumsy, again not that long ago. I have called people out for both.

The S word was in common usage locally when I was younger too, and yes not so long ago by a forum user to describe a horse. 'The P shop' was also a common phrase, that wasn't used in a derogatory way at all, it was used to describe a useful shop that was open all hours, that sold allsorts, whoever/ whatever nationality was the owner/worker. I do now know this is not the original meaning, and would not say it, but when I didn't know, I didn't know.

I am surprised that some people of my age group seem to have never heard the phrases in use. I lived in a fairly nice area, (as in not much poverty locally), going to state schools.

I also find it telling that I dare to type gay and special, as long as I am saying that I don't use them, as they are more recent, but used in that way just as derogatory, yet we are almost all typing the first letter only for the other words.

Goes to show how language is ever evolving, and rightly so.


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## AandK (4 October 2021)

I was born in 1980 and grew up with the words mentioned on this thread as common slang, mainly at school from memory.


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## lynz88 (4 October 2021)

Red-1 - "gay" was a common term when I was growing up as well and it had nothing to do with actual gays.  It was just a term used to describe something that wasn't "hardcore". We also regularly used the word "r*tard" but didn't have much to do with a disability but rather an alternative term to saying something or someone was being stupid.

When I came over here I was actually a bit surprised when I heard fag (meaning cigarettes) as that is a derogatory term for gays back home.  People would use it when I was growing up but not as commonly as the other words mentioned and has never really been a word that you would use unless purposely being derogatory.

But back to the original post....I find it rather surprising and OTT.  There is tough and then there is just plain rude....


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## lynz88 (4 October 2021)

Sossigpoker said:



			English isn't my first language so when i started getting involved with horses about 20 years ago in this country,  lots of terms were alien to me.
Like , i thought that a good doer is a horse that tries really hard! 🤣
I had an instructor who used to say that a horse was having "a sp@zzy" when a horse was freaking out or having a silly moment. And I took it to be another horsey term , like good doer. I actually used it for years without anyone ever correcting me! Perhaps because they were trying to decide between picking someone up over unacceptable language and picking on a foreigner and their English.  🤣
When someone finally pointed it out , I was mortified. It still makes me cringe,  nearly 20 years later! But I'm of course grateful that someone did clarify what it mean to me or goodness know what trouble I could have caused!

So maybe someone should point this out to LG so that she hopefully learns from it? And learns that it's not accepted any more even if in her mind it's OK.
		
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We would use spaz in the same context when I was growing up (late 80s/early 90s kid) as something or someone (or horse...lol) freaking out and/or being OTT.  A very common phrase would be "stop spazzing out".

The other (longer form) of the word never made it across the pond and it wasn't until I came here did I ever hear that particular word used.


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## ycbm (4 October 2021)

DrSeuss said:



			Things haven't changed, not really.
		
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I get that life is still difficult for you because of other people's reactions to your disability DS, but things have changed. When I was born there were children with disabilities being locked up in institutions and/or attending "special" schools in spite of being capable,  with the right support,  of engaging fully in education and life like anyone else. As one small example,   It would have been unheard of for the people with Downs syndrome who I now see working in my local supermarkets to have been employed by Tesco or Sainsbury. 

I'm sorry you still face difficulties, I'm not trying to make light of them.  Just because things were even worse 60 years ago doesn't mean they are anywhere near perfect now, but in my lifetime there have been huge changes.  
.


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## ycbm (4 October 2021)

Red-1 said:



			I also find it telling that I dare to type gay and special, as long as I am saying that I don't use them, as they are more recent, but used in that way just as derogatory, yet we are almost all typing the first letter only for the other words.
		
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I honestly don't get this,  and the only reason I do it is because I get such grief from other posters from writing the words in full.

We can't pretend these words never existed,  when they are disguised in print we all hear the word in our head anyway,  so I absolutely don't understand the point of writing "I heard a guy call someone else [a n****r/ the N word] today and I reported him for hate speech". What does it achieve other than to get around the automated text blockers?  Having written that,  I think that's probably actually where it started from. 
.


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## ycbm (4 October 2021)

lynz88 said:



			Red-1 - "gay" was a common term when I was growing up as well and it had nothing to do with actual gays. It was just a term used to describe something that wasn't "hardcore".
		
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Gay when I was growing up meant happy or colourful! 
.


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## cauda equina (4 October 2021)

Me too.
And 'special' didn't have any negative connotations at all; I assume that only started when Special Educational Needs replaced the older and more pejorative terms for learning difficulties


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## Goldenstar (4 October 2021)

Gay was girls name when I was young and older people used it to to mean merry .


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## AShetlandBitMeOnce (4 October 2021)

Gay, re***d, fl*d and m**g were all common during my time at school between 2000 and 2011 - I wouldn't use any of the words now.   They were used because they were used, it meant you're an idiot or something was disapproved of and was mostly used in a jokey way between friends rather than a serious negative bullying word.  However, none of us kids would have ever treated anyone with special needs or physical disablities any differently from the rest of the school population, and we did have several children with varying needs who were popular on the whole. We simply had no idea of the connotations and the implied meaning when we said it, it was far far removed from it's etymology. However, that doesn't make it okay of course, and I can completely understand upon reflection how the children would have felt should they have understood the derivitive of the words. Interestingly the teachers never corrected us.

ETA: I have starred out selective words so I don't get picked up and get a warning as per the below post. It doesn't have any deeper meaning than that


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## [59668] (4 October 2021)

I think probably the only reason people haven't starred out "gay" and "special" on here are because they are words that have other meanings and aren't likely to be picked up on here by an automated text scan and get the user a warning or the thread removed/locked.

The other words are likely to be picked up so have been starred out.


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## Fransurrey (4 October 2021)

Red-1 said:



			Being of a previous generation is no excuse, but it can be an explanation. Before I get jumped on, I once said a terribly inappropriate phrase in front of a group of people. It was a phrase that used to be in common use. I had not used it for decades. Goodness only knows why my brain dragged up that phrase that day, I certainly hadn't thought about the meaning. It was a once commonly used phrase, to do with a specific situation, and that situation had occurred, so out the phrase was dragged from the depths of memory, without thought.

As soon as I said it, I was mortified, as the active brain suddenly worked out what the phrase actually referred to.

There is no excuse for using that phrase, but I can explain, to myself at least, where it came from, without it meaning that I am some awful person. I will never use that phrase again! It also heightened my awareness of the danger of using once common phrases. The same happened to a friend, same thing, a (different) specific situation occurred which used to be attached to a (different) specific phrase, that she also hadn't thought of for decades, that suddenly shot out without conscious thought. She was fortunate that is was in private, but was equally mortified, and will never do that again.
		
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Sympathies. I did the exact same thing not that long ago. Again, not a word I use daily. It was in front of some well respected friends and everyone went quiet (as my brain also kicked in!). Then one quietly said, "I don't think we use that word anymore." We changed the subject quickly, but I still cringe months on and am devastated that I've probably changed at least one person's opinion of me as they don't know me that well. Live and learn (and continue to cringe). I grew up in a VERY non PC era and the area still is very non PC (but it's quite telling that it's now a right wing hotspot of the UK, now famous for the high rates of COVID and swing to Conservatism in recent years). My family still use very non PC words and it's really hard being acquainted with two sets of social 'rules', so hardly surprising to slip up occasionally!


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## DrSeuss (4 October 2021)

ycbm said:



			I get that life is still difficult for you because of other people's reactions to your disability DS, but things have changed. When I was born there were children with disabilities being locked up in institutions and/or attending "special" schools in spite of being capable,  with the right support,  of engaging fully in education and life like anyone else. As one small example,   It would have been unheard of for the people with Downs syndrome who I now see working in my local supermarkets to have been employed by Tesco or Sainsbury.

I'm sorry you still face difficulties, I'm not trying to make light of them.  Just because things were even worse 60 years ago doesn't mean they are anywhere near perfect now, but in my lifetime there have been huge changes. 
.
		
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I was referring specifically to the tendency to use disabilities as insults, not to life as a disabled person more broadly. It isn't the case that some words used in the past were objectively horrible and now in a more educated era we know better than to say them, it's that neutral words become stigmatising and unpleasant when they're used frequently in a degrading way. This is definitely an ongoing thing.


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## ycbm (4 October 2021)

DrSeuss said:



			I was referring specifically to the tendency to use disabilities as insults, not to life as a disabled person more broadly. It isn't the case that some words used in the past were objectively horrible and now in a more educated era we know better than to say them, it's that neutral words become stigmatising and unpleasant when they're used frequently in a degrading way. This is definitely an ongoing thing.
		
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It is,  sadly.  I guess like most things this is going to come down to better parenting,  because I'm pretty sure schools wouldn't allow it in the hearing of adults.  I did think that the organisation which complained that only villains have disfiguring conditions in films had a good point, too.
.


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## onemoretime (4 October 2021)

I was in a riding lesson once and the instructor asked if I was 'special ' because I missed one of her barked cues. I'm glad I'm old enough and ugly enough to face these bullies down. I told her that I was indeed special. We are all special.
People can be horribly ignorant about the meaning of words and the hurt they can cause when tossed around. I pray for a kinder age.[/QUOTE]

I remember when I was about 7 or 8 years old ( a very long time ago now) being called a "silly little goose" by a riding instructor when she hit me over the hands with the end of her lunge whip which really hurst and made me cry.  Honestly, to think my mother was paying for that!


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## windand rain (4 October 2021)

I think any word used as a derogatory comment is going to become unpleasant we call anyone who makes silly mistakes a "donkey" but it is just another derogatory term even if not a recognised one. I got a clipped ear for saying sugar instead of sh1t because my mum knew it was hiding and expletive. Guess I am lucky not to be more dottled in my old age the number of clouts round the head I got and the number of head first to hit the ground falls from horses. However that is no excuse and now people know it is not acceptable unless of course the individual is damaged enough to lose her filters


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## Annagain (4 October 2021)

Red-1 said:



			It isn't that long ago that 'gay' was in common usage in our area amongst young teens. It was being used to mean unfashionable. I have also been called 'a bit special' when I have been forgetful and clumsy, again not that long ago. I have called people out for both.

The S word was in common usage locally when I was younger too, and yes not so long ago by a forum user to describe a horse. 'The P shop' was also a common phrase, that wasn't used in a derogatory way at all, it was used to describe a useful shop that was open all hours, that sold allsorts, whoever/ whatever nationality was the owner/worker. I do now know this is not the original meaning, and would not say it, but when I didn't know, I didn't know.

I am surprised that some people of my age group seem to have never heard the phrases in use. I lived in a fairly nice area, (as in not much poverty locally), going to state schools.

I also find it telling that I dare to type gay and special, as long as I am saying that I don't use them, as they are more recent, but used in that way just as derogatory, yet we are almost all typing the first letter only for the other words.

Goes to show how language is ever evolving, and rightly so.
		
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Gay is an interesting one because many other words that have then been used as insults have been dropped completely but gay has seen that off and survived. Not many words survive that process. Usually, as soon as they take on a new derogatory meaning they get phased out but it hasn't happened with gay.  To say "he/she is gay" when referring to sexuality is perfectly acceptable and that's probably why you feel ok typing it Red. I know you're referring to the derogatory meaning here but the fact it exists as a word beyond that is significant I think.


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## Rowreach (4 October 2021)

"Speshul" was a word often used on this forum, generally to describe dogs and horses, by quite a number of users for a good while.  Happily it doesn't appear so often these days.


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## littleshetland (4 October 2021)

Goldenstar said:



			Gay was girls name when I was young and older people used it to to mean merry .
		
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Gay....a beautiful song from Clifford T Ward. He had some success in the 70's...In fact, all his songs are beautiful.


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## ycbm (4 October 2021)

littleshetland said:



			Gay....a beautiful song from Clifford T Ward. He had some success in the 70's...In fact, all his songs are beautiful.
		
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The only top 20 singer/songwriter I know who managed to get the word photogenic into a song.  You could tell he was an English teacher   I loved his stuff in my teens.


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## Winters100 (4 October 2021)

Maybe I have just been too long out of the UK, but I had not heard of 'special' being a derogatory term.  I use it often about my schoolmistress, not in any negative way, but in the context of her being an amazing pony who is very special to me, for example she often gets an extra treat because she is especially precious.  I shall have to think of something else to use in case it is misunderstood.


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## brighteyes (4 October 2021)

I don't think this thread has the right title.


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## [59668] (4 October 2021)

brighteyes said:



			I don't think this thread has the right title.
		
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Er....OK. what would you suggest?!


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## fidleyspromise (4 October 2021)

When I read the title I was expecting a jokey "I met my hero horse and it slobbered on me" sort of thing. 

It has been a very sobering read and it has brought back lots of memories of slang used derogatory to people. We used words without understanding their meaning and thought they meant idiot (which is still not kind). 
I am glad to see that lots of these words are no longer in common use but special still seems to be commonly used.  I feel like a constant nag as I constantly repeat myself to others about not using words like that.

I would be interested to see how the clinic organiser/LG respond to her use of the word in OP.


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## Upthecreek (4 October 2021)

I think we should all do our very best to think about what we say and what it might mean to different people. That said (and I am not referring to what was said by LG) it seems like people go out of their way to take offence sometimes. For example, I am blonde and I have epilepsy. Should I be offended if someone says they are “having a blonde moment” or describes their horse spooking as “having a fit”? Because I’m not in the slightest, but I can see that some people would be.  

Regarding what was said by LG, name calling using slang words in a deliberately derogatory way to demean people is unacceptable and extremely outdated. Very disappointing.


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## Bellaboo18 (4 October 2021)

Winters100 said:



			Maybe I have just been too long out of the UK, but I had not heard of 'special' being a derogatory term.  I use it often about my schoolmistress, not in any negative way, but in the context of her being an amazing pony who is very special to me, for example she often gets an extra treat because she is especially precious.  I shall have to think of something else to use in case it is misunderstood.
		
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I think you can use the word special as you do  My mare is very special to me. Some people do use the word special as different in a negative way.


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## DrSeuss (4 October 2021)

Winters100 said:



			Maybe I have just been too long out of the UK, but I had not heard of 'special' being a derogatory term.  I use it often about my schoolmistress, not in any negative way, but in the context of her being an amazing pony who is very special to me, for example she often gets an extra treat because she is especially precious.  I shall have to think of something else to use in case it is misunderstood.
		
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'Special' genuinely can have positive connotations and that would be obvious from the context. To answer an earlier poster's point, I think this is why no one is asterisking out special or gay - their positive and neutral connotations are stronger than the negative ones. People often talk about a special treat/journey/birthday present/piece of sentimental jewellery, so it's never going to become a wholly nasty word. It all depends on how you use it.


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## ozpoz (4 October 2021)

As a child of the 60 s I can honestly say that I am not offended by words. However,if someone says something derogatory I will respond.
The whole being offended thing worries me. People are so careful with words now, that heartfelt honest reactions seems to be very difficult.

Don‘t be offended - either understand where they are coming from, or get mad! And do this for good reasons, defend people who are struggling, be furious that people are dying of hunger and neglect still, that greed has overtaken caring for our surroundings.
I‘d like to add that I know a few people with cerebral palsy, and am in awe of their bravery and grit.


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## Lyle (5 October 2021)

I grew up in the late 80's/90's in Aus, and there were many derogatory words that were absolutely common slang. Australia had/has a culture of being non-politically correct, calling friends crass and crude words and having a laugh about it. Knowing that people aren't actually meaning offence at all, it's like the closer you are to someone, the ruder the 'terms of endearment' get. People tend to use these words or terms to describe themselves, "Oh gosh, I can't believe I messed that up, I'm a bit special" as a negative put down of themselves.  
Sp*z, or to 'have a sp*z meant someone or something was over the top, over reacting, being hyper reactive.  "Calm down, don't have a sp*z". It was YEARS before I connected the dots as to where the term came from, the older generations knew, but kids made connections of when the term was used, to basically give it a different meaning. I would NEVER EVER use it now.  It was quite prevalent in the horse world "Gee, Joel's horse had a bit of a sp*z about the blue jump" It's certainly not used in common language anymore.

By all means, a well structured email to Lucinda directly outlining the concerns that the word is certainly not socially acceptable. The other described sentences I actually don't really have an issue with (let me preface that with, I would NEVER say anything so bluntly to a paying client) but I highly doubt she meant for them to be personal attacks. She is very direct in her language, doesn't beat around the bush nor sugar coat. 

I really don't think posting on social media achieves anything other than a witch hunt. Has anyone watched Clickbait on Netflix? An extreme (although still scary) representation of where the internet and social media can lead to when it incites outrage in a faction of people.


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## asmp (5 October 2021)

ycbm said:



			Gay when I was growing up meant happy or colourful!
.
		
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We used to have shop called Gayhomes in my home town.


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## southerncomfort (5 October 2021)

Was thinking about this thread yesterday and reflecting on the fact that the only group of people that it is still thought morally and socially acceptable to refer to in unpleasant and derogatory terms is women.

In fact I'd argue its worse now than it ever has been.

I've never thought of myself as a feminist particularly, but their seems to me to be wide spread misogyny throughout society, that is not just accepted, but colluded in by almost every section of society but most especially by those in the public eye.

And we're supposed to just shut up and take it. 🙄


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## sunnyone (5 October 2021)

There is another group who can be vilified openly and on the BBC  too: those of us who were born to unmarried parents. I lost count of how many times the word B*****d was used last night in The Goes Wrong Show!
They may see it as just another filler word but when I was little it brought such shame on my mother's family that I was never taken to even meet my grandparents and was told for many years that my father had died. I agree that the social stigma has now all but disappeared but the mere fact that "B*****d" continues to be used demonstrates the prejudice.
We all need to think before we speak!


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## YorkshireLady (5 October 2021)

I have read this thread with interest. Like many I knew who it was straight away. In relation to teaching style...I think she can be very very good but is perhaps not so good to those that are struggling to understand. She also can get obsessed on the type of horse you are riding...

I fear that she is in a bubble...which is probably a mixture around who she is (ie people not wanting to challenge) and who she mixes with (ie if they are of similar background etc) meaning she would rarely be pulled up regarding language.  I would hope that they could start to understand why its not acceptable to use language in this way though and to realise its more than a tick box of do not say x y z. i think probably needs feedback and more than once to help make a change.


I also think its interesting that we do tend to expect a top rider to be a top coach and really its a very different skill. I have had good and bad experiences with more 'celeb' lessons and in general those with the teaching experience do shine through and I think for some it also reflects the coaching they may have had themselves.  The best ones are sometimes not the ones you expect and I have been pleasantly surprised by people I wouldn't have expected to have really showing me they learn from all different coaches and riders they meet and really apply different ways of thinking versus some really single minded approaches that , in one case, was so sexist as well that it really put you off!


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## [59668] (5 October 2021)

An update:
After writing, rewriting and reflecting on what I wanted to say, I have today sent my email to Lucinda. Or at least the only email address I could find for her which was for her xc academy website. 
I will report back on any reply.


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## YorkshireLady (8 October 2021)

I am wanting to know if you got a reply....


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## [59668] (8 October 2021)

No reply yet I'm afraid


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## YorkshireLady (8 October 2021)

ill have everything crossed that someone replies to you


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## Cheval Gal (9 October 2021)

Disgusting. She should be called out on using such offensive, disablist language. It is as bad as the N word. 

Sorry you had to witness this, OP.


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## stormox (9 October 2021)

I have seen the lady in questions clinics and thought she made a lot of sense. I dont think she used words like that, and was clear and concise. Its difficult to imagine an adult using an illness as an insult although when I was young *****ing meant messing around, and wasnt said in a nasty way.


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## [59668] (3 November 2021)

Just wanted to update this to say I never got a reply. How disappointing.


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## YorkshireLady (3 November 2021)

That is a shame....


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## LegOn (3 November 2021)

Unfortunately I'd say unless its posted on social media, or at least the threat of it, they would just ignore it and hope it goes away


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