# Bucking Bronco Daughters Pony!!



## jessica2805 (19 March 2014)

We bought my daughters lead rein pony, an 11.2 9 year old section A 4 months ago. At first he was an angel, then tried to push the boundaries with his stable manners but today he pushed them to the limit! We had just tacked him up and were setting off down the lane for a lovely hack in the sunshine when get just stopped and turned into a bucking bronco and would not stop until my daughter was off. He really scared the both of us and I gave him a telling off and put him straight back in his stable whilst I looked after my daughter. He had never done this before and now I feel very concerned to sit her back on him. Any suggestions please ???xx


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## be positive (19 March 2014)

If this is the first time he has behaved in this way there may well be a reason not just a pony pushing his luck but something amiss, the saddle pinching or a fright of some sort that set him off. You say you put him back into the stable, is he getting plenty of turnout? too much time in can mean he is very fresh and uptight or equally getting out on good spring grass can mean too much energy.
Children's ponies often do get cheeky and pushy, they rarely work hard enough, especially lead reins and can show this by being naughty at times, I would check all is well with the tack so no excuses for bad behaviour, cut out feed, if he gets any, make sure he is limited with not too much grass and work him more, plenty of groundwork, lunging etc anything that can utilise his energy and keep his mind occupied. Before you put your daughter on next time give him a good lunge to settle him down or if you can find a more experienced child that could exercise him off lead sometimes that may help. 
It may help to get an instructor to have a look or if you are really concerned get him checked by your vet but it is most likely that he was feeling fresh, started to buck and just forgot that he was being ridden, even the best ponies can lose their manners at times and once they start something just keep going until they come back to earth, in this case it was your daughter falling off that probably made him stop, hopefully he will be a good boy next time and it was a one off.


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## jessica2805 (20 March 2014)

Thank you for your reply, yes he had been turned out all day. I fear the suggestion about sugars in the grass maybe the problem or potentially his saddle so I have booked the saddle fitter to come out. We are dairy farmers so all our fields are very lush and I'm struggling to find a rough patch for the pony to graze! 
He does have his moments and can spook a little but this was the first time he had done something dangerous and just scared me. I don't want my daughter to lose her confidence, she is only 4!!

He is currently on a handful of Spillers Happy Hoof and 200g of Spillers lite balancer but he went without that last night!! 

I just wish wish I was light enough to get on and work him myself. I do lunge him at least once a week but I fear like you say he is not being excercised enough so I wonder if he would be better off being sold to a more active gymkhana home? 

Any more suggestions are gratefully received.

Thankyou!


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## Booboos (20 March 2014)

With this kind of new behaviour you need to eliminate pain. 

I would start with the vet, he's the most qualified person to make a diagnosis and advise you on treatment. He may refer you to a physio and/or want to get the saddle checked as a sore back is the most usual cause of a pony bucking. However, ponies can buck because of lameness, tooth problems and pain elsewhere so you won't really know until you get the vet out.

If all looks good in that direction, I'd cut out all hard feed, ponies do not need it especially when the grass is coming through, and use electric fencing to create a small paddock for him. Too much grass can be enough in itself to drive him bonkers!

Ideally you also need to find a small rider who can come once a week and remind him of his manners. Some older children and some light-weight adults specialise in this, ask at your local PC. At 9 he is still quite young and will need quite a bit of exercise, although you don't want to make him too fit. To be honest for such a young child you may have been better off with a very elderly pony that was ready to semi-retire with walk only hacks 2-3 times a week.


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## TGM (20 March 2014)

Has he got other horses/ponies for company?  Was he used as a lead rein pony in his previous home?  Was he stabled at night before you got him?


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## ILuvCowparsely (20 March 2014)

jessica2805 said:



			We bought my daughters lead rein pony, an 11.2 9 year old section A 4 months ago. At first he was an angel, then tried to push the boundaries with his stable manners but today he pushed them to the limit! We had just tacked him up and were setting off down the lane for a lovely hack in the sunshine when get just stopped and turned into a bucking bronco and would not stop until my daughter was off. He really scared the both of us and I gave him a telling off and put him straight back in his stable whilst I looked after my daughter. He had never done this before and now I feel very concerned to sit her back on him. Any suggestions please ???xx
		
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Bucking
When a horse bucks, his head go down, and he kicks out his back feet contained by the air.
Bucking is when the horse kicks his back legs up and  at least one of his front legs are still on the ground.


      Its important to keep the horse going forward when he starts to buck as they cannot buck if they are going forward
     Put them on a small circle
    Stand up in the stirrups to take the weight of the horses back and reduce the risk of being catapulted off



Bronking

Prior to bronking the horse minimally shortens its stride and gets bouncy,  This follows  on with the horse lowering its head to its knees  arching its back and leaping all fours off the ground, repeating this with some twisting of the body.   This can be a frighting habit which can lead to the rider falling off and being injured.

   Horses can bronc through bad habit or through pain, its important to rule out discomfort / pain as an issue before you go about trying to stop this unwanted behaviour


Ways to stop bronking:


    Cherry roller bit is a useful bit for horse who bronc.
    A  Waterford Jumper is another good bit for buckers / bronkers as its an elevator bit and keeps horses head up and keeps him sitting on his hocks


 In My experience ponies or horses normally only do that when there is a pain issue.


 MY advice is to do the following.  Serious injury can be caused by broking and bucking.  You need to get the cause found.


Physio/osteo
vet
saddler


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## ILuvCowparsely (20 March 2014)

Booboos said:



			I would start with the vet, he's the most qualified person to make a diagnosis and advise you on treatment. He may refer you to a physio
.
		
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Personally I do not agree with this I would do the osteo first before the vet,  Bones backs and muscles is their thing.

 Yes there are other things that can make a pony buck I do agree like Myopathy dental problem etc.


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## Shay (20 March 2014)

It is really scary when these things happen.  I know you had to deal with your daughter - of course you did.  But you have inadvertently rewarded him because he got out of being worked.  If - god forbid - it happens again make sure he is still worked, even if it is on a lunge or walker.

In the mean time speak to your local PC and see if there might be anyone small enough but experienced enough to exercise him once a week for you.  We have done this from time to time for people as my daughter has her B test but is still 4'9 and weight just under 6 stone.  That will depend on your location though.  And make sure your insurance cover is good!

See if you can electro fence a smaller paddock for him  - although some ponies will just charge the tape.  One of mine does!  Or fit a good quality grazing muzzle.

You might also want to look into more than just a once a week lunge.  Obviously he doesn't need to be too fit - but ideally he should be worked for 45 minutes or so 6 days a week.  It doesn't sound like he has enough at the moment.  Long lining is a good alternative to lunging.

Or - and I know from my daughter's experiences this is a hard one - perhaps let this one go to a more advanced home.  On loan if you want him back when your daughter is older.  And see if you can get something more sedate for her to start on.  Don't focus on size so much as temperament.  Our best LR pony is actually 13.1 and is hunted regularly.  But is also an absolute angel with beginners.  So they don't have to be small!


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## Tnavas (20 March 2014)

If spring grass is coming through then I would suggest that you give him a tablespoon of Epsom Salts twice a day while the grass is growing fast.

On the days that your daughter is riding, give the Epsom Salts in a small feed 30mins before she rides.


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## Booboos (20 March 2014)

Leviathan said:



			Personally I do not agree with this I would do the osteo first before the vet,  Bones backs and muscles is their thing.

 Yes there are other things that can make a pony buck I do agree like Myopathy dental problem etc.
		
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It is illegal for a para-veterinary professional (physio, osteo, etc) to see a horse without a vet's say so. If you are having routine physio check-ups with the vet's knowledge you'd be OK to call the physio first, but in a case where there is evidence of pain and no diagnosis it is irresponsible to go to the osteo first. Any decent osteo/physio should refuse the call out.

Muscles are not the osteo's thing. Physiotherapists deal in muscles, they go to uni for 4 years and then do a further 2 years of specialisation in equine muscles to be able to do the job. Osteo claim to manipulate bones - fine if it works for you and your horse but it is important to know that if an osteo claims to be qualified in dealing with muscular problems they are talking rubbish even beyond what they are supposed to be qualified for (where 'qualified' may be quite a loaded statement anyway!).


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## Tnavas (20 March 2014)

Booboos said:



			It is illegal for a para-veterinary professional (physio, osteo, etc) to see a horse without a vet's say so. If you are having routine physio check-ups with the vet's knowledge you'd be OK to call the physio first, but in a case where there is evidence of pain and no diagnosis it is irresponsible to go to the osteo first. Any decent osteo/physio should refuse the call out.

Muscles are not the osteo's thing. Physiotherapists deal in muscles, they go to uni for 4 years and then do a further 2 years of specialisation in equine muscles to be able to do the job. Osteo claim to manipulate bones - fine if it works for you and your horse but it is important to know that if an osteo claims to be qualified in dealing with muscular problems they are talking rubbish even beyond what they are supposed to be qualified for (where 'qualified' may be quite a loaded statement anyway!).
		
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I guess you have never had a horse that truly needed the chiro, if you had you wouldn't be so scathing! My old TB came to me with a history, of dropping his jockeys at any and every opportunity. Refusing to go in the starting gates and when eventually in, refusing to race. When stressed he'd splay his legs, drop his head, sway and then run backwards. He stumbled a lot, even in walk.

When I first met him he was lying under a fence with legs either side of the fence post. Totally cast, how long he'd been like that and how much he had struggled we will never know, but it took many off us to see saw him out from under the fence.

I bought him two years later. He looked terrible and wouldn't eat properly, would take him ages to eat a feed. He fidgeted when tacked up and bit when girthed. Eventually he didn't want to come out of the paddock, then didn't want to be caught. I'd notice when his paddock mates were grazing he would standing under the trees.

The chiropractor came regularly and the stumbling would stop for a while. The diagnosis was that the 7th cervical was out of alignment. The nerves to the front legs travel through this area.

One day we were walking in the paddock and he collapsed under me, both front legs folded under his body along with his head. A phone call to the chiropractor and a week later the vet and chiropractor met and the vet knocked out my horse, the chiro then manipulated my horse under anaesthetic. He never looked back from that day. Within a few weeks he went from a skinny, sick looking horse to looking like a broodmare about to foal.

He went on to to compete in many disciplines, Eventing, Endurance, Dressage and Showing. All because of a chiropractor! He lived to 14yrs when sadly Navicular got him and I couldn't keep him sound.

This was 23years ago in a time when vets did not believe in chiropractic treatment. To be honest a physio is a waste of time, if owners spent more time grooming their horses properly, ie. 45 mins of body brushing each day they wouldn't need a physio in the first place.

As a long time sufferer of back problems a physio is a waste of time until the chiro has done his job.

Personally I think it a really stupid law - if it actually is - that the vet has to approve chiropractic treatment first, most of them wouldn't have a clue, and sadly there are still far too many vets that don't believe in chiropractic treatment.

As for your comment on chiropractors not being able to work on muscles, you don't have to limit your knowledge, many study physio as well.

Excuse me OP For hijacking, I am as you may have realised a confirmed supporter of chiropractors.


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## Booboos (20 March 2014)

It's not a stupid law, medical diagnosis and treatment should only be given out by a qualified medical professional, veterinary diagnosis and treatment should only be given out by a qualified veterinary professional. They are the only people who are trained, accredited, insured and can be held responsible for their actions.

I don't get the point of your example as you did have the vet out by your own account of the story!

I like how you are so confident about chiros, find it so silly that vets dismiss them and then in the same breath dismiss physios! Irony is still well and alive on HHO!


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## Tnavas (20 March 2014)

Booboos said:



			It's not a stupid law, medical diagnosis and treatment should only be given out by a qualified medical professional, veterinary diagnosis and treatment should only be given out by a qualified veterinary professional. They are the only people who are trained, accredited, insured and can be held responsible for their actions.

I don't get the point of your example as you did have the vet out by your own account of the story!

I like how you are so confident about chiros, find it so silly that vets dismiss them and then in the same breath dismiss physios! Irony is still well and alive on HHO!
		
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I lost a horse from a qualified vet not knowing the difference between lymph and joint fluid! Not all vets are equal!

In the case of my horse the vet was called in only to administer the anaesthetic, fortunately at the time he was one vet who believed in chiro's. 

As to physio's when a joint is out of alignment no amount of physio will correct it. Chiro the joint back into alignment then do the physio.

A horse physio I know was the one that said if people strapped their horses as we used to then she wouldn't have a job. Using the body brush massages the muscles, hosing with cold water causes more problems. Would you put ice on you sore muscle, no you would use a hot water bottle, hot bath or a wheat bag.

After my back came out of plaster I was sent to a physio, it did nothing yo improve the pain as the disc was out of alignment. Chiro fixed the pain in minutes.


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## Booboos (21 March 2014)

What is the point of mentioning one off examples? Have you actually stopped using vets because you came across a useless one? Just because one vet was useless why does that justified using unqualified people? What makes you think unqualified para-veterinary practitioners won't have any useless people amongst their ranks?

The reason many vets do not recommend chiros is that the 'bones out of alignment' theory has no scientific basis. If a horse's pelvis was truly out of alignment the animal would not be able to stand up and you'd need a couple of tractors to put it back 'in'. Human bones are much smaller and you can use the principle of a lever to affect some changes.


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## TarrSteps (21 March 2014)

Anyway. . . 

OP, if you have health concerns re the pony, get the vet. No one is saying that is and ever will be your only option, but it's the place to start.

Otherwise, find someone who knows about ponies and is either small enough to ride them or has access to a good small jockey and ask their advice upon actually seeing the situation. It may simply be that the pony needs to eat less and work more (like about half the horses I've seen this week, now that the weather is improving and the grass is coming up) and you have to find a way to get that done.

The question about his previous home is relevant. When you bought him was he doing exactly the same job at the same level of work? If not, that may be the answer right there.

Don't stress too much about having put him back in the box. If you're there alone with a child that has been unseated for the first time, I can see why you might prioritise the child! As far as not feeding him dinner, I hope you did that because you feel he doesn't need hard feed now, not because you were annoyed. Ponies have feelings too! 

(I don't actually mean that as a joke. I think it's quite easy to forget that ponies aren't different animals because they're small. We need to have the same expectations of them and treat them the same as we do with horses. To that point, there aren't that many 9 year old competition types that would stay sane on one work session a week, spring grass and then being asked to walk out slowly with a relative novice!)


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## ILuvCowparsely (21 March 2014)

Booboos said:



			It is illegal for a para-veterinary professional (physio, osteo, etc) to see a horse without a vet's say so. If you are having routine physio check-ups with the vet's knowledge you'd be OK to call the Osteo first, but in a case where there is evidence of pain and no diagnosis it is irresponsible to go to the osteo first. Any decent osteo/physio should refuse the call out.

Muscles are not the osteo's thing. Physiotherapists deal in muscles, they go to uni for 4 years and then do a further 2 years of specialisation in equine muscles to be able to do the job. Osteo claim to manipulate bones - fine if it works for you and your horse but it is important to know that if an osteo claims to be qualified in dealing with muscular problems they are talking rubbish even beyond what they are supposed to be qualified for (where 'qualified' may be quite a loaded statement anyway!).
		
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I never have called my vet before I need the Osteo out never will regardless if it is the law or not.  If I know or suspect my horses back out I get the Osteo out.
  I said Osteo / physio  and Osteo deal with bones as well as muscles.

Everyone I know never call the vet first prior to osteo coming out and my vets have never told me to the contrary.  Vets many times to not diagnose when a horses back is out which then when told the horses back is fine and the rider continues  Accidents happen.

You contradict yourself there you say Muscles are not an Osteo's thing then go on to say a physio deals with muscles.

  I am going to an Osteo because my back is out and they worked on my back  eg the vertebrae and that when I last looked was bones.

 A physio is what I use when after an accident and muscles have gone week due to lack of use need to be worked on the regain movement and control of limbs.


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## ILuvCowparsely (21 March 2014)

Booboos said:



			What is the point of mentioning one off examples? Have you actually stopped using vets because you came across a useless one? Just because one vet was useless why does that justified using unqualified people? What makes you think unqualified para-veterinary practitioners won't have any useless people amongst their ranks?

The reason many vets do not recommend chiros is that the 'bones out of alignment' theory has no scientific basis. If a horse's pelvis was truly out of alignment the animal would not be able to stand up and you'd need a couple of tractors to put it back 'in'. Human bones are much smaller and you can use the principle of a lever to affect some changes.
		
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Absolute, cr4p  why do you persist in your ramblings.  When some of us  have had serious  experience with horses with backs out / pelvic s out etc.  Its not a theory as you so vaguely put it   pelvic  out and vertebrae inflammation is a serious issue that can lead to rider accident and disability when a horse is ridden and in one of these situations.


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## Tnavas (21 March 2014)

Booboos said:



			What is the point of mentioning one off examples? Have you actually stopped using vets because you came across a useless one? Just because one vet was useless why does that justified using unqualified people? What makes you think unqualified para-veterinary practitioners won't have any useless people amongst their ranks?

The reason many vets do not recommend chiros is that the 'bones out of alignment' theory has no scientific basis. If a horse's pelvis was truly out of alignment the animal would not be able to stand up and you'd need a couple of tractors to put it back 'in'. Human bones are much smaller and you can use the principle of a lever to affect some changes.
		
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Not all chiros and physios are unqualified, many of them are qualified and really know what they are doing. I have seen some of the chiros lift the back end of the horse off the ground manipulating the hind quarters. Not all manipulation calls for strength, eg necks are easy to do, I've done a few myself, with good results. The noises you here are pockets of gasses that break up, not bones moving to any degree. Sometimes I here my own back clunking back into alignment, usually when I am very relaxed, which is how the equine chiros work, they have a relaxed horse and take him by surprise. We found that when Tnavas was having his neck manipulated fortnightly that he began to anticipate the flash of pain you sometimes get and would stiffen up, making it hard to fix, hence the reason for manipulating him under anaesthetic. Another I had took many visits and some sedatives to start aligning his neck again, he was in too much pain to complete the correction in one visit. He had nosedived over a hurdle when doing his jump training. 

My horses have not needed the vet for almost 20 years now except for annual vaccinations. I'm not a run to the vet for every scratch, I've had 40+ years experience working with horses and know my stuff.

I'm not antivet at all just know when to call them in and when not. My youngster came home from lease with a nasty cut to his hock, caused by wire. You should have seen the bandaging the vet had put on it! It was a disgrace. Vet had bandaged just the injured area regardless of the fact that the wound was in a joint area, it had been bandaged just around the injury no padding under just a Melolene pad over the cut, then bandaged (vet wrap). The whole thing had creased up and was in the wound. I bandaged for the next week or do and never once did the bandage get into the wound because it was bandaged properly. Some vets are good but many are a waste of time and your money. 

I've seen a friends horse die of blood poisoning because the vet bandaged a severely lacerated fetlock for a whole week before changing the bandage. I gagged when the bandage was removed the stench of putrid flesh was terrible.

On the other hand the vet saved the life of one of mine many years ago when he caught Salmonella, the speed of his arrival and the repeated visits throughout the night showed his dedication.


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## TarrSteps (21 March 2014)

Vets save horses' lives every day of the week. 

People in every profession are of varying levels of abilty. 

People make mistakes. Even chiropractors. 

Bucking ponies do not NECESSARILY need vets or chiropractors or animal communicators or anything other than more work and less food.


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## ILuvCowparsely (21 March 2014)

TarrSteps said:



			Vets save horses' lives every day of the week. 

People in every profession are of varying levels of abilty. 

People make mistakes. Even chiropractors. 

Bucking ponies do not NECESSARILY need vets or chiropractors or animal communicators or anything other than more work and less food.
		
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Yes  in a lot of cases it does and you don';t know till you get someone out.


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## TPO (22 March 2014)

There is no such thing as an unqualified osteopath Boo boos. To be an osteopath you need to complete a degree course; if you wish to specialise in horses/animal osteo it's a further 2yr post grad.

Going by your grading system you can have an "unqualified" physio as you can do just equine/animal physio without requiring a degree in the human equivalent. You can then call yourself an equine/animal physio but you cannot say you are an osteo, much like a dentist, unless you have a degree in the human course.

Why knickers are getting twisted over this is beyond me and hardly seems relevant. I don't insist on my vet being fully qualified in human medicine before treating my animals. The onus is on every owner/care giver to be as informed as possible to enable them to make the best decisions for their animals. That means ensuring whoever you use is trained, qualified, registered and insured.

It is a legal requirement to have veterinary permission before anyone works on your animal (vet act 1966). Any practitioner who works on an animal without this is not only working illegally but is voiding their insurance. Something you'd definitely care about if things went wrong. 

OP- some on topic good advice has been given and relevant questions asked. Are you an experienced owner? If not it might be worth a chat to your vet or vet nurse for some pointers on weight management and signs of lami, how to check digital pulses etc A small native, on dairy grazing without much work would be classed as high risk. Sorry if I'm teaching grandma to suck eggs


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## Tnavas (22 March 2014)

I think we have all got side tracked/ Lets go back to the OP's original post - the pony bucked off the child.

What happens in spring when the grass starts to come through? A lot of unruly horses and ponies who suddenly become twitchy and silly.

I would hazard a guess that this pony is suffering from Magnesium deficiency brought on by the new grass. Called 'Grass Tetany' as it mimics many of the symptoms of Tetanus, hyper reactive, twitchy and for some when you touch them their skin spasms.

A tablespoon of Epsom Salts twice a day while the grass is growing will settle the pony back down.

I've had some ponies experiencing 'grass tetany' to such a degree you cannot even touch them - they have been yarded up, given a bran mash with Epsom Salts and hay and have been fine within a couple of days.


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