# I've got a planter!



## cptrayes (5 August 2014)

I've got a planter, and unfortunately I bought it from a horse dealer and not a garden centre 

So, excuse the length this is going to be but I'm going to try to give all the relevant information up front so people don't waste their time giving answers that can't help.

Horse is four, was backed for me this spring and I have continued his education. He is spectacularly unaware of his own body, very immature mentally, and both nervous and curious in character. I have broken many horses successfully, including another four year old I currently own.

He was hacking out alone with increasing confidence (but still not what you would call confident, just improving each time). When nervous, he clacks his mouth like a foal and is very easy to 'read'.

Today, he planted, and nothing I could do would move him. In the end, I led him out and rode him back. I think this was mostly napping, because he was not foal mouthing.

So, obvious answers to this are:

Go out in company. Difficult. Nearest horsey neighbours are three miles away or more, ten miles by horsebox. Friends who are experienced enough to come and accompany me on my other four year old are busy with their own horses. I could pay, but I'd like to avoid the twenty quid an hour it will cost for the two people I know who I would trust to do it.  

Beat him.  I would have done this in the past, but I would prefer to take a different approach now that I don't bounce so well, and in view of what a nervous horse and slow learner he is generally.

Get off lead him. This is what I did today, and what I would prefer to do in future of necessary.

So.....  what's the question, I hear you ask ?

There are two 

- have I missed an alternative way of stopping him planting?

- do you have success stories of where 'get off and lead' has worked for horses of this type?  Our is your experience that the problem will simply continue if I do this?  

All suggestions welcome, thanks in advance


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## ihatework (5 August 2014)

I wouldn't want to get into a habit of hopping off to lead, although appreciate at times this might be what is needed.

I think investing £20 once a week for someone to come out with you would be worthwhile in the long run. 

In between, could someone join you on a push bike and be prepared to step in and help as required?


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## Caol Ila (5 August 2014)

I had a quarter horse who could glue her feet to the ground, but I was never in your position of being stuck on my own, as I was boarded at a busy stable so could recruit mates to lead us out and play "leapfrog" games on the trail, until she was happy being out front when in a group and going out by herself.

If you don't have a friend who can ride out with you regularly, could you pony your guy from another horse?  Get him used to being out and about.

Edit as crossposted: A friend on foot or on a bike is a good idea as well.


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## cptrayes (5 August 2014)

Caol Ila said:



			I had a quarter horse who could glue her feet to the ground, but I was never in your position of being stuck on my own, as I was boarded at a busy stable so could recruit mates to lead us out and play "leapfrog" games on the trail, until she was happy being out front when in a group and going out by herself.

If you don't have a friend who can ride out with you regularly, could you pony your guy from another horse?  Get him used to being out and about.

Edit as crossposted: A friend on foot or on a bike is a good idea as well.
		
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Interesting! This is a quarter horse too. I've never met a horse like him and I thought I'd seen them all!

I edited my post after you answered it to explain why I can't lead and ride, sorry.

I think I'd have to be the one on the bike for him to follow it


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## DiNozzo (5 August 2014)

Did you only ask him to move forwards?

I ask as we had one (who whilst did not have the excuse of being a youngster, was very nervous of the world), and would plant. Some people try to turn a circle, but he wouldn't as the initial movement was forwards, so we taught him to go sideways (green cob, badly schooled) and this helped to 'unstick' his feet and he'd go forwards again.

We started teaching this inhand in the school, then progressed to ridden and then did the same out hacking as he'd plant regardless of whether he had a rider or a leader.

Other horses, people, and increasing lengths did nothing for him, it was almost like he'd get a fright at something then freeze and almost forget how to move forwards. Moving sideways was his coping mechanism. He eventually built it up into shoulder in past scary things.


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## ihatework (5 August 2014)

Would he ride & lead from the other horse?


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## Doormouse (5 August 2014)

Has he done much long reining?

Could you perhaps long rein him round a short route and then ride him round it?


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## be positive (5 August 2014)

An alternative and something I was considering with mine is to long rein out,  they are not taking the lead from you so still gaining some independence, then getting on to ride back, if you can avoid actually turning round by having a loop it obviously helps prevent napping, you would also need a place to leave the reins to collect later without them being picked up someone.  

My first answer was to buy a nice shrub or some herbs but not really what you require.


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## Tiddlypom (5 August 2014)

He sounds like a candidate for being turned away to grow up, both physically and mentally. He sounds very immature for his age. He may be an altogther different, and easier, prospect next spring.

You need to end the current spell of ridden work on a good note, though, so it would be worth enlisting the £20 a time helpers to help you through the current glitch.


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## FfionWinnie (5 August 2014)

Ride and lead and long reining cured my (much worse) planting paint horse. You have to be ready to drive them strongly forward with the long reins so good boots/gloves/hat etc and make sure he understands the principle somewhere safe. Was not easy with mine the first time but it did work very well once she realised she could not get back and had to go forwards.


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## cptrayes (5 August 2014)

DiNozzo said:



			Did you only ask him to move forwards?
		
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No, I tried all the tricks that have stood me in good stead before with napping flat racers hacking alone for the first time. Sideways, backwards, any way at all. At first I managed to rock him off one front foot and get one sideways step, but then he got wise to that and stood splay footed. He was very calm, just completely obstinate. He tried to shut down mentally, but I stopped that by tapping him randomly all over his body. He just point blank refused to lift a foot off the road!


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## cptrayes (5 August 2014)

FfionWinnie said:



			Ride and lead and long reining cured my (much worse) planting paint horse. You have to be ready to drive them strongly forward with the long reins so good boots/gloves/hat etc and make sure he understands the principle somewhere safe. Was not easy with mine the first time but it did work very well once she realised she could not get back and had to go forwards.
		
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I can't safely do either I'm afraid, because of the roads


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## Fides (5 August 2014)

Have you tried just sitting there till he gets bored? I had a planter who would reverse at speed if pushed. Seems he equally disliked being told to stand still for
Long periods


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## cptrayes (5 August 2014)

be positive said:



			My first answer was to buy a nice shrub or some herbs but not really what you require.
		
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He gets plenty of herbs put in him.


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## cptrayes (5 August 2014)

Fides said:



			Have you tried just sitting there till he gets bored? I had a planter who would reverse at speed if pushed. Seems he equally disliked being told to stand still for
Long periods 

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Oh yes. It worked the first time at about ten minutes. I'm afraid I gave up the second time at about fifteen minutes. Maybe longer would do the trick, I need to take a book


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## ihatework (5 August 2014)

Fides said:



			Have you tried just sitting there till he gets bored? I had a planter who would reverse at speed if pushed. Seems he equally disliked being told to stand still for
Long periods 

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I've had success with that too. An eventer that would nap for England - he napped 15 minutes from home this one time. Middle of winter, fully clipped.

I sat there for 45 minutes. He was shivering his butt off. And then just walked forwards home. He never gave me a real battle after that day


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## cptrayes (5 August 2014)

Tiddlypom said:



			He sounds like a candidate for being turned away to grow up, both physically and mentally. He sounds very immature for his age. He may be an altogther different, and easier, prospect next spring.
		
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He does, doesn't he?  I'd rather not if I can get through this. He is improving all the time to handle and to ride on the arena.  And physically he is developing beautifully with the hill work, he's twice the horse I bought already  

I will seriously consider your suggestion, though.


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## be positive (5 August 2014)

Does he plant anywhere else, if you could long rein him around a field or just in and out of the yard to get him going without taking the opportunity to stop and look, he sounds very immature mentally so you could find giving him a short break will help, they often come back with a different attitude even after a week of doing nothing.


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## Charmin (5 August 2014)

Mine used to plant, wouldn't go sideways, backwards. Eventually I just sat it out. Was once there for an hour but it reduced each time and now she's one of the best hackers.

I also had to make sure I only did circular routes or lollipop routes to prevent her thinking she was going to turn around. Every spook I had to make sure it was forwards etc.


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## cptrayes (5 August 2014)

ihatework said:



			I've had success with that too. An eventer that would nap for England - he napped 15 minutes from home this one time. Middle of winter, fully clipped.

I sat there for 45 minutes. He was shivering his butt off. And then just walked forwards home. He never gave me a real battle after that day
		
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Sounds like I definitely need to take a book next time  !

I did sit a warmblood out for forty minutes once, I'm sure I can do it again.

He definitely wasn't scared, is so easy to tell when he is. It was sheer obstinacy at not wanting to leave home.


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## cptrayes (5 August 2014)

Charmin said:



			Mine used to plant, wouldn't go sideways, backwards. Eventually I just sat it out. Was once there for an hour but it reduced each time and now she's one of the best hackers.

I also had to make sure I only did circular routes or lollipop routes to prevent her thinking she was going to turn around. Every spook I had to make sure it was forwards etc.
		
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This is obviously another problem, but I don't have any circular routes available. I have to do a minimum of a mile and a half before the road branches. I could move I suppose


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## cptrayes (5 August 2014)

be positive said:



			Does he plant anywhere else, if you could long rein him around a field or just in and out of the yard to get him going without taking the opportunity to stop and look, he sounds very immature mentally so you could find giving him a short break will help, they often come back with a different attitude even after a week of doing nothing.
		
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He has planted for very short periods of time on the arena, but that stopped after I waited him out for a few minutes. His arena work is getting better and better but he is a long, long way behind where you might expect a horse who is into his fourth month of being ridden to be. (It's lucky my other one is way ahead or I'd be really miserable )

A week off might be a good thing to try, we'll have lost nothing if it doesn't work.


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## cptrayes (5 August 2014)

I've just realised that an edit which I did to my first post has been lost.  I live in an area of very steep hills, blind bends, blind summits, and single track road. Ride and lead and long reining are both too dangerous, which is a shame since I'm pretty sure they would work.


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## leflynn (5 August 2014)

cptrayes said:



			I've just realised that an edit which I did to my first post has been lost.  I live in an area of very steep hills, blind bends, blind summits, and single track road. Ride and lead and long reining are both too dangerous, which is a shame since I'm pretty sure they would work.
		
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Can you get someone on foot to be your safety net so you can do this?

Mine used to be a total arse hacking on his own.  I had no choice but to get him going myself due to times that others were about.  I long reined, then went hacking with someone on foot (still an srse but less bad).  I waited it out, I whip whopped him with my reins (only thing that would make him move his feet at all).  At one point he wouldn't leave the yard and we sat looking at the shavings pile for almost an hour with a wheelbarrow up his own backside for company *sigh* (on more than one occasion too).  

Whats he like in a field on his own sort of schooling?  Does he listen to aids to stop/go? Can you long line him in the field so he knows to GO forward?  In the end I waited it out, then got tough and made him trot from the minute I got to a flat enough bit - not the best way to bring a horse back into work after time off due to tendon/ligament damage and almost 2 yrs of box rest (had been turned out and rehabed on horse walker for months first).  Growling a lot was my other method, kicking/whips/shouting never worked but a very deep growl did occasionally, I also lunged him so he knew that go from voice meant go.  He also got clever and would know when he was going ot be whip whopped with reins so would shuffle, so I used to try and make use of that - I have been laughed at a lot by a local farm, whose farm we frequently ground to a halt at.  Another lady form another yard even got out of her car one day to try and persuade him to walk on, even with a carrot he wouldn't, persistant b*gger!

I never let him stop trotting as it was easier as he had less to think about other than stopping.  When he did stop I made go in any direction even home and then turned him round again.  Another milestone in 'being a brill hacker on his own' was a Gemma Pearson Clinic - back to basics but VERY good (he is also v spooky).  He hacks alone, through traffic, canters along tracks, pulls up and is no longer scared of his own shadow


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## cptrayes (5 August 2014)

He stops and starts in the arena though the trot can be very sticky to keep going. He steers fine, leg yields, and is generally a quiet, kind boy but very lacking in forwardness.  I don't think this is me, he was like it with both the riders who backed him for the first three weeks ridden, and they were pros.

I can see my poor old OH being drafted in to walk behind us with a lunge whip at this rate


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## Happy Hunter (5 August 2014)

Been there, done that.  
MY solution (NOT saying it works for all) - Is waiting, not 'beating' but wiggle wiggle (Bottom not hands!) or poke poke poke  - Just make him know that this is NOT what you want, make going forwards the nice easy option. Have to admit I have used one of those big fat rope things swung about just to get some movement, anything!
Waiting with a book is just standing still fun for them!
How is he at Long reining??

What do you mean planted - Do you mean all four feet actually stuck to the ground and on space station 9 not listening to anything around him? (Oh this is the worst kind,,, trust me!)
Or a more 'active' plant, i.e. I will not move past that imaginary line on the road - but i will rear, buck, spin and chuck my head about!?

Either that, or wait until they are cubbing (Sorry Autumn hunting) around the corner,,, hack to join in - and for the next month he will be dragging YOU out to go have some fun!!! 
Good luck


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## cptrayes (5 August 2014)

Oops, there seem to be two copies of this thread running, I'll ask admin to amalgamate them.

Thank HH. I don't think he'll be physically strong enough in time for Autumn hunting. I go with the drag and it's a proper lot of exercise.


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## Goldenstar (5 August 2014)

I would sit it out for hours if necessary .
However I never put 4yos in this position I never hack them alone .
If he's doing it in the school that would worry me .
Any school work must be about I put my leg on you go , I am not a one for turning away problems but from the other things you have posted about this horse I might consider backing off to long riening or walking lunging over the roughest uneven stuff you can find to keep him thinking and developing eye to hoof and body coordination and leaving the hacking out for a while .
Then arrange a friend or pay someone to ride out with you twice a week if that's not possible I would send to a training yard for hacking in company to establish good behaviour this is what I did when I was alone .


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## leflynn (5 August 2014)

cptrayes said:



			He stops and starts in the arena though the trot can be very sticky to keep going. He steers fine, leg yields, and is generally a quiet, kind boy but very lacking in forwardness.  I don't think this is me, he was like it with both the riders who backed him for the first three weeks ridden, and they were pros.

I can see my poor old OH being drafted in to walk behind us with a lunge whip at this rate 

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I'd wait until he is more forward before attempting any solo hacking if he was mine, mine was fine in the school/at home but a swine out and about (he is 8 and does know better), be tempted to leave the whip at home, not a fan of chasing horses with a whip when they are reluctant to do something.  Would get your OH to walk in front and start in the school so he trusts him then take it outside, would do some spook busting to give him confidence in you and himself 

Good luck


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## 9tails (5 August 2014)

Mine thought she'd go through a planting phase early on in our relationship.  It was accidentally cured by going out with a horse that was MUCH slower than her and keeping her behind.  She was furious at having to do pigeon steps the entire ride as I wouldn't let her go past to plant.  She wasn't 4, she was being difficult and questioning my leadership.


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## cptrayes (5 August 2014)

leflynn said:



			I'd wait until he is more forward before attempting any solo hacking if he was mine, mine was fine in the school/at home but a swine out and about (he is 8 and does know better), be tempted to leave the whip at home, not a fan of chasing horses with a whip when they are reluctant to do something.  Would get your OH to walk in front and start in the school so he trusts him then take it outside, would do some spook busting to give him confidence in you and himself 

Good luck 

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Funny thing is that he is less spooky than he has ever been. He jumped out of his skin at a butterfly a month ago but carried on the hack  So, what's this about now,  then  ?


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## cptrayes (5 August 2014)

Goldenstar said:



			I would sit it out for hours if necessary .
However I never put 4yos in this position I never hack them alone .
If he's doing it in the school that would worry me .
Any school work must be about I put my leg on you go , I am not a one for turning away problems but from the other things you have posted about this horse I might consider backing off to long riening or walking lunging over the roughest uneven stuff you can find to keep him thinking and developing eye to hoof and body coordination and leaving the hacking out for a while .
Then arrange a friend or pay someone to ride out with you twice a week if that's not possible I would send to a training yard for hacking in company to establish good behaviour this is what I did when I was alone .
		
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I'm open to the suggestion that he simply isn't a horse who can be trained by someone on their own GS.  I'll send him away before I ruin him, for sure.

He doesn't plant in the school any more, which gives me some incentive to try to get him hacking alone as well.


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## leflynn (5 August 2014)

cptrayes said:



			Funny thing is that he is less spooky than he has ever been. He jumped out of his skin at a butterfly a month ago but carried on the hack  So, what's this about now,  then  ?
		
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Mine is spooky but goes forward now and now we have the spooking under control a bit better!  If we could read horses mind its would be so much easier (possibly??!), the demo I went to basically said if you ain't got no forwards you'll find it difficult to do most things well


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## ironhorse (5 August 2014)

The quarter horse brain is an unusual organ - think native pony but more so! If they've got any ranch/foundation blood in them they are even more 'obstinate' but a lot of it is survival instinct. The bit about the spooking rang true - yes they can jump but are very quick to work out what is a real threat and what is not.
I would be tempted to send away, to get the company and more suitable hacking - I can't really hack mine in the winter because ground conditions mean that we usually have to turn back on ourselves - by the third time he is whipping round if it is too cold/too windy/too wet to meet his aspirations! They learn routes ridiculously quickly. (On the upside it usually means that 'monsters' in the arena that scare other youngsters for months very rarely worry them after they've seen them once)
Meanwhile, things that I have found can mobilise a planted QH: the 'wip-***' action of a thick rope (see Kelly Marks) or of split reins if using a western bridle; irritating them into moving forwards, ie persistent 'bumping' with a leg aid; boring them into moving forward ie standing still until they go forward - with ONLY forward steps being acceptable, no backing or stepping sideways; turning circles, although you say you have already tried this.
I would also work a bit more on getting him mobilised in the arena to reinforce the idea that leg means go.


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## cptrayes (5 August 2014)

Fascinating, thank you. He certainly is like no other horse I've ever trained. His father is a top class halter bred, Like a Clu. I wonder if him coming from in hand showing stock has made a difference?

He's spectacularly pretty and very sweet, so he can have some time to mature.  Forwards is getting much more established in the school. We were on pony club kicks backed up with a whip tap. Now we are on just a calf squeeze. And he has a wonderful mouth too


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## PorkChop (5 August 2014)

I don't have any experience with quarter horses in particular, and you are obviously an experienced rider who knows what they are doing!

I would personally persevere with the solo hacking, have you tried carrying a short thick piece of rope that can be flapped either side.  i have found that this can work when other strategies haven't.

I had one homebred mare that was a bit of a planter, I enlisted my husband to crack a hunting whip behind her, I think it took three or four days of this and she never looked back - turned out to be my best hunter.

He sounds lovely and I am sure it is just a blip, but I wouldn't be turning him away until he was more forward thinking.


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## cptrayes (5 August 2014)

I'm not at all keen to turn him away, and I'm certainly not a believer in doing it routinely, so obviously I'm very happy with your advice


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## cptrayes (5 August 2014)

I thought people who haven't seen him might like to know who we are talking about.


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## PorkChop (5 August 2014)

Stunning


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## cptrayes (5 August 2014)

LJR said:



			Stunning 

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Yes I think he's worth giving another year of my time, even if he is an annoying mule at times (with apologies to all mules )


All the rest of him is chestnut.


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## dieseldog (5 August 2014)

I had a horse that napped terribly when I got them.  I found the best thing after trying everything else was to turn her head in the direction I wanted to go with her nose touching my foot in the stirrup and just sit there.  No kicking or anything. Eventually she would sigh and walk in the right direction.  I think it reset her brain somehow.  She got better and better and eventually stopped napping altogether.


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## old hand (5 August 2014)

Had a livery that did that. cured it by going backwards, three miles til we met a bridleway the first day, he then agreed to turn and go about a mile and then hacked home ok.( It was a circular route)  each day reduced the distance before he agreed to walk on and after a week only had to go 100 yards down the drive backwards, then he walked on a soon as he reached the road.  thereafter, he was fine and his owner could hack him out alone which she had never been able to do.  He was 5.  I used this approach as he was very obstinate and his owner was a tiny lady who couldn't physically ride him forwards.  I thought about it and decided that she could do what I had done if he ever did it again, he never did.  put the behaviour down to being nervous of facing strange things.  Not scared of then when he had gone by backwards!


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## honetpot (5 August 2014)

Planting is very much a Highland pony thing, have a look on the Highland Pony Enthusiasts forum. Some of the stories are hilarious but so frustrating, solutions seem to be waiting it out and the whop whip. Must be a really good natured horse with a pony brain.


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## cptrayes (5 August 2014)

dieseldog said:



			I had a horse that napped terribly when I got them.  I found the best thing after trying everything else was to turn her head in the direction I wanted to go with her nose touching my foot in the stirrup and just sit there.  No kicking or anything. Eventually she would sigh and walk in the right direction.  I think it reset her brain somehow.  She got better and better and eventually stopped napping altogether.
		
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I will try this if I can get his head round,  thanks.


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## cptrayes (5 August 2014)

honetpot said:



			Planting is very much a Highland pony thing, have a look on the Highland Pony Enthusiasts forum. Some of the stories are hilarious but so frustrating, solutions seem to be waiting it out and the whop whip. Must be a really good natured horse with a pony brain.
		
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Thanks .


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## HannaST (5 August 2014)

What a lovely horse!! 
He is still very young so I wouldn't worry too much. Did I read correctly that he's only done it very recently? I would then get your OH to walk out with you, before it becomes a habit. Make sure to do some work in the arena first so they're both prepared. Then if that works, gradually let him walk further behind you and hopefully the horse will become more confident! I would try to avoid the situation altogether, as he's so young, but once he's planted, it'll probably be a waiting game/annoying him until he moves and no giving up. Also I wouldn't hack him out too often so that he can take some time to think about it between each time.

Also doing lots of ground work might help to make him trust you and obey you, although you might already have done that with him? Maybe try doing "scary stuff" in the arena whilst you ride?


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## Coblover63 (5 August 2014)

We bought one that planted.  His previous owner had been a novice and when he planted out hacking he would get off and lead him so he learned quickly that if he stopped, he didn't have to be ridden!  Unfortunately, I'm not so gullible so I wore a BP and took a lead rope with the buckle removed and a knot tied in the end.  When Jack stopped I swung the rope back and forth across my body so that it banged my BP.  This took him by surprise and he shot forwards.  I didn't want him getting used to the rope trick so a couple of days later I progressed to carrying a small plastic bottle with some gravel in it.  Again, shaking that was enough to get his feet moving forwards.  Trying to out-do me, Jack then started stopping and backing up instead, so I took control and MADE him back up.  Well of course then he didn't want to go back any more, when it was no longer his decision, so he'd set off walking forwards again and I would make him trot for a long time.  After about a week of "discussions" he decided life was a heck of a lot easier if he just kept a-ploddin'....  He's a different boy now to the one who first arrived.

PS  He was 10 at the time and not scared, he'd just learned the evasion.


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## cptrayes (5 August 2014)

old hand said:



			Had a livery that did that. cured it by going backwards, three miles til we met a bridleway the first day, he then agreed to turn and go about a mile and then hacked home ok.( It was a circular route)  each day reduced the distance before he agreed to walk on and after a week only had to go 100 yards down the drive backwards, then he walked on a soon as he reached the road.  thereafter, he was fine and his owner could hack him out alone which she had never been able to do.  He was 5.  I used this approach as he was very obstinate and his owner was a tiny lady who couldn't physically ride him forwards.  I thought about it and decided that she could do what I had done if he ever did it again, he never did.  put the behaviour down to being nervous of facing strange things.  Not scared of then when he had gone by backwards!
		
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I tried backwards. He wasn't going anywhere   He's not afraid of anything that is making him plant, in fact he's less afraid than he's ever been. He just suddenly decided today, on a hack he's done ten times before, that he was not going to go any further from home. Full stop.  No fuss, no bother, just planted like a boulder .  Mule    (sorry mules)


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## cptrayes (5 August 2014)

HannaST said:



			What a lovely horse!! 
He is still very young so I wouldn't worry too much. Did I read correctly that he's only done it very recently? I would then get your OH to walk out with you, before it becomes a habit. Make sure to do some work in the arena first so they're both prepared. Then if that works, gradually let him walk further behind you and hopefully the horse will become more confident! I would try to avoid the situation altogether, as he's so young, but once he's planted, it'll probably be a waiting game/annoying him until he moves and no giving up. Also I wouldn't hack him out too often so that he can take some time to think about it between each time.

Also doing lots of ground work might help to make him trust you and obey you, although you might already have done that with him? Maybe try doing "scary stuff" in the arena whilst you ride?
		
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Yes, he'll do whatever I ask on the floor, and I have also been putting stuff on the arena and he's been getting less and less spooky every day.  Thanks for the encouragement, he is young and  this was new today. I won't let it turn into a habit, he's too good to spoil.


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## cptrayes (5 August 2014)

Coblover63 said:



			We bought one that planted.  His previous owner had been a novice and when he planted out hacking he would get off and lead him so he learned quickly that if he stopped, he didn't have to be ridden!  Unfortunately, I'm not so gullible so I wore a BP and took a lead rope with the buckle removed and a knot tied in the end.  When Jack stopped I swung the rope back and forth across my body so that it banged my BP.  This took him by surprise and he shot forwards.  I didn't want him getting used to the rope trick so a couple of days later I progressed to carrying a small plastic bottle with some gravel in it.  Again, shaking that was enough to get his feet moving forwards.  Trying to out-do me, Jack then started stopping and backing up instead, so I took control and MADE him back up.  Well of course then he didn't want to go back any more, when it was no longer his decision, so he'd set off walking forwards again and I would make him trot for a long time.  After about a week of "discussions" he decided life was a heck of a lot easier if he just kept a-ploddin'....  He's a different boy now to the one who first arrived.

PS  He was 10 at the time and not scared, he'd just learned the evasion.
		
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Interesting. He reacts to gravel inside my plastic jump poles, that might be a trick to try 

The whipwop idea is coming up a fair bit, it's obviously something to try as well. He may jump out of his skin but at least he'll have moved!!


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## Coblover63 (5 August 2014)

Well that's what I thought too.  I didn't want to hit him but I wanted to get his feet moving...


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## lastchancer (5 August 2014)

Not sure if this would work with a youngster, but mine reins back really effectively and I've taken to backing passed things that he's (pretending to be) afraid of. Does look very odd to passers by though


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## Crazy Equestrian (5 August 2014)

The thing I do when mine plants is make it as uncomfortable as possible for him to stand still. So not beat him but try and turn him away and then the other way until he decides that it's just easier to move forward.


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## cptrayes (5 August 2014)

I tried, but he has a neat way of spreading like Bambi, and he can't be moved - it's really quite clever if it wasn't so irritating!


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## Madali (5 August 2014)

Hi. I share your pain I also have a challenging four year old who would do the same.I have broken many others and had never met anything as bad as this one.
She is sharp as so beating her was not going to work. Sitting there sometimes worked. But in the end I used to take her for a walk tacked up and jump on her and ride back. Sometimes I would jump on and ride about 100 yards then turn back. Each day I pushed the boundaries and eventually she thought it was fun. Happy days
It only took a few days till I could hack out the yard on my own


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## cptrayes (5 August 2014)

Madali said:



			Hi. I share your pain I also have a challenging four year old who would do the same.I have broken many others and had never met anything as bad as this one.
She is sharp as so beating her was not going to work. Sitting there sometimes worked. But in the end I used to take her for a walk tacked up and jump on her and ride back. Sometimes I would jump on and ride about 100 yards then turn back. Each day I pushed the boundaries and eventually she thought it was fun. Happy days
It only took a few days till I could hack out the yard on my own
		
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Hello!  You're the first person to post who has resolved this in the way I would prefer to do it - walk him out and ride home.  

Thank you. I might try it after all.

For other people, I wouldn't do this if I was having to lead because he was scared*. If that was the case, he would win by being led. I'm sure what he wants is to go home, so even by leading him, he isn't achieving that goal, he's going further away.


*  If he is scared, he clacks his mouth like a foal. When he plants, he isn't clacking


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## charlie76 (5 August 2014)

Prob get shot down, schooling whip with a carrier bag on it,don't hit him with it just make a noise.


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## mairiwick (5 August 2014)

My standardbred went through a planting stage. He was also quite impatient ironically, so what worked for me was hopping off him, leading him for one stride, getting back on and asking again for him to walk on. If he wouldn't respond I got off again, led him another stride, stopped and remounted. Continued until he got fed up with it that he walked on. The first time I think I was on and off the saddle about 6 or 7 times in the space of a couple of minutes before it worked. Second time only twice. It didn't happen again.

But he wasn't young, he was old and stubborn


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## Fools Motto (5 August 2014)

I had a planter once. We got stuck 10 mins from home due to a 'plastic bag' gawp!  I was going know where fast, so was all prepared to wait it out, then my phone rang... the hunting horn tone.
Quick smarted it back with a happy spring in his step!! lol  Maybe an idea at least!?

Your situation, I'd get some company when possible, but I would also wait it out as long as he isn't getting scared.
Good luck!


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## cptrayes (5 August 2014)

mairiwick said:



			My standardbred went through a planting stage. He was also quite impatient ironically, so what worked for me was hopping off him, leading him for one stride, getting back on and asking again for him to walk on. If he wouldn't respond I got off again, led him another stride, stopped and remounted. Continued until he got fed up with it that he walked on. The first time I think I was on and off the saddle about 6 or 7 times in the space of a couple of minutes before it worked. Second time only twice. It didn't happen again.

But he wasn't young, he was old and stubborn 

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I hadn't thought of that one. Worth a try.


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## Louby (6 August 2014)

Iv just been through this with a 4 yr old just backed horse brought over from Ireland and it wasnt nice.  He was a big horse 17.2 and knocked my confidence totally as he planted and then went backwards into anything in the way, ditches, barbed wire, walls etc and threatenned to rear when you put any pressure on.  I ended up getting off to stop him shredding his legs on the wire but for us, that was my downfall.  Tried turning tight circles, worked in the school but wasnt safe to out hacking as he'd have a paddy, run backwards or scrabble on the slippy road surfaces and I just couldnt get him to circle safely.  I had no one suitable to hack with, we tried but he just walked to fast to follow, I had no where safe to hack and no suitable circular routes, so we were turning back on ourselves.  Saying that on the occasion I did ride in company he napped away from the nanny horse and felt like he was going to bog off home.  I got pro help in and boy did he try it on, he was made to go backwards, driven forward etc but he still did it.  I was told he needed a job, he was a serious comp horse and needed someone used to big young horses, so sadly I sold him to a competition yard, they knew of his issues and they turned him around, had a big battle with him, basically whalloped him and he never did it again and sold him to a competition home who Im told love him to bits.  I dealt with a similar horse years ago but this boy was just so big and I dont do rearing and I admit he scared me. Since then I have bought another horse and the first thing I did was move him to somewhere I have people to ride with and somewhere safe to ride.  I felt so guilty I had failed the big lad.  Good luck with your horse, hes lovely.


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## Festive_Felicitations (6 August 2014)

cptrayes said:



			Sounds like I definitely need to take a book next time  !

I did sit a warmblood out for forty minutes once, I'm sure I can do it again.

He definitely wasn't scared, is so easy to tell when he is. It was sheer obstinacy at not wanting to leave home.
		
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I've had a horse that did similar. I took to hacking with a book in my pocket. He used to plant when he saw bogie monsters and turned into 16.2hh rock formation. He did grow out of it, but we also worked on changing his reatction to monsters from 'plant' to 'forwards' with minor shies etc. We decided a leap forwards or suddenly shooting into canter for a few strides was preferable to standing still for 10 min.


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## cptrayes (6 August 2014)

I've had one like that in the past. Louby!  This one isn't dangerous at all, he just isn't going to move. He's such a sweet boy I'm not going to beat him into it, I'm going to try waiting him out, and I think I've found someone to come and ride my other horse with me if that doesn't work.


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## cptrayes (6 August 2014)

Festive_Felicitations said:



			I've had a horse that did similar. I took to hacking with a book in my pocket. He used to plant when he saw bogie monsters and turned into 16.2hh rock formation. He did grow out of it, but we also worked on changing his reatction to monsters from 'plant' to 'forwards' with minor shies etc. We decided a leap forwards or suddenly shooting into canter for a few strides was preferable to standing still for 10 min.
		
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I can cope with monsters but he has almost lost his fear of most things. There were no monsters at the three places he did it yesterday, he wasn't looking at anything in particular, he just would not go any further away from home. He was fine on the way back. There's a surprise, not


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## twiggy2 (6 August 2014)

cptrayes said:



			I can cope with monsters but he has almost lost his fear of most things. There were no monsters at the three places he did it yesterday, he wasn't looking at anything in particular, he just would not go any further away from home. He was fine on the way back. There's a surprise, not 

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shutting down is a sign of fear

I would turn him away and when I bring him back in I would hop off each time he plants-it is positive and non confrontational


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## cptrayes (6 August 2014)

twiggy2 said:



			shutting down is a sign of fear

I would turn him away and when I bring him back in I would hop off each time he plants-it is positive and non confrontational
		
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He is very open about showing fear. There was no fear that I could identify in the way he planted yesterday, neither did he shut down.  it appeared to be pure napping not to go any further from home than he already was.  He has previously planted with fear, which is a rigid, frozen posture staring at what is upsetting him. That only needs him to be given time to look at whatever it is, and then he will go on. This plant was totally different, relaxed, and passively absolutely defiant. 

Can I ask the people who would turn him away why they recommend that when in every respect except yesterday's new problem, he is improving with every passing day?


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## be positive (6 August 2014)

I think in this country it can be expected to turn youngsters away, I seem to remember you posting about how unusual it is in other parts of the world, traditionally we bred hunter types who probably did benefit from being backed at 3 or 4, turned away over the winter while the older horses hunted, then brought back ready to hunt in the autumn, not sure it applies so much to more tb bred types. 
I prefer the idea of a week off here and there to take stock,  not long enough to lose any muscle just gain a little freshness, have time to rest and be keen to get back on with work, I think it is a very useful part of the training process as it does mean a few days off through injury, bad weather or rider going away is normal and does not require the breaking process to start all over again or the horse failing to cope with a break later in life. 
I regularly give all of mine a week here or there and they usually really benefit and even the youngest have been easy to get back on seeming to be more interested in moving on.

I wouldn't turn yours away for any length of time he is immature but needs to continue to build up physically, I am not sure he will if turned away fully, it is not as if he is weak in the true sense, he sounds clever and probably senses that the roads are not a safe environment to have a battle of wills, testing the boundaries now he is feeling fit and well.


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## cptrayes (6 August 2014)

That's very much my interpretation of his behaviour BP, he's finding his own strength now and is confident in his new home and beginning to test boundaries.

He does get several days in a row off, and will next week, for example. He doesn't work hard, half an hour max on the arena,  and what should be a thirty five minute hack   And he has at least two days out of seven without work, and never works more than three days in a row, more often only two.

Yes, it is only this country that has any 'norm' of turning away three and four year olds,  as far as I can tell.


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## TheCurlyPony (6 August 2014)

Oh I feel your pain.  I had one of these.  It is the most frustrating thing ever, especially as they are not scared.  I tired it all.  Whip Whop,  plastic bottle with pebbles in, schooling whip with carrier bag attached, sitting it out.  ( 3 hours once sat in the middle of a grass field that was been grown for Wimbledon) If I turned his head towards my toe, he would touch it and stand like that, for ever..................  It was always about trying to get forward motion.  Smacking with a whip made no difference, Growling is fairly good, until after 3 hours of sitting there it turns into something a little more. %$~~+(*&&   !!!    However, what I did find useful was, getting off, leading  a few steps and getting back on again, and for some reason the monster would then just go.  I don't know why, he just did. I tried to ride out with very forward going ponio's, and never ever, with anything else that would nap.  Even now I won't go out with a napper, just in case.  He grew out of it after about three months.  But it would drive me to tears and many times I could be heard pleading with this pony to move. Lol. It was worth it in the end thou.


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## TheCurlyPony (6 August 2014)

Oh Ps. Your horse is stunning


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## be positive (6 August 2014)

He is hardly over worked, have you tried taking him out after schooling, just a stretch once he has got a little tired sometimes mixing it up can help even though you will probably not be able to do a loop, my nervy hacking alone horse is going further each time, still turning back to come home, he is not nappy as such just gets scared of everything and roots to the spot rather than going forward, venturing further each time seems to be helping, although I am just about to go out and may be proved wrong depending on how he is feeling today, sitting them out is not always easy if there is traffic around.


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## Dry Rot (6 August 2014)

Loved the story about the horse responding to the hunting horn ring tone!

We train Highlands and have someone who can recognise the body language walking behind with a lunging whip. The whip never makes contact and a flick at the same time the pony even thinks of stopping blocks any thoughts of planting or hesitating. The signal is quite clear and the leg aid soon takes priority.

Could it be that the horse simply does not understand? That sounds naive but it is the answer to many training problems. Go back and teach that voice commands must be obeyed with lunging and long reining, then try combining voice with aids when ridden. I also agree to making planting less comfortable for the horse than walking on -- but not so uncomfortable that escape behaviour is the result.

In short, "walk on" means just that. Certainly, doing nothing is the way some animals cope with fear. It is also how they sometimes cope with uncertainly as they don't know what they should do next. First the trigger, then the action. There is no choice in the matter so no indecision.


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## cptrayes (6 August 2014)

TheCurlyPony said:



			Oh I feel your pain.  I had one of these.  It is the most frustrating thing ever, especially as they are not scared.  I tired it all.  Whip Whop,  plastic bottle with pebbles in, schooling whip with carrier bag attached, sitting it out.  ( 3 hours once sat in the middle of a grass field that was been grown for Wimbledon) If I turned his head towards my toe, he would touch it and stand like that, for ever..................  It was always about trying to get forward motion.  Smacking with a whip made no difference, Growling is fairly good, until after 3 hours of sitting there it turns into something a little more. %$~~+(*&&   !!!    However, what I did find useful was, getting off, leading  a few steps and getting back on again, and for some reason the monster would then just go.  I don't know why, he just did. I tried to ride out with very forward going ponio's, and never ever, with anything else that would nap.  Even now I won't go out with a napper, just in case.  He grew out of it after about three months.  But it would drive me to tears and many times I could be heard pleading with this pony to move. Lol. It was worth it in the end thou.
		
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You're the second person who this approach has worked with. I think I'm going to try it, it plays into all my strengths and his weaknesses   thankfully, I have plenty of banks on the roadside, because he's not a small boy


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## cptrayes (6 August 2014)

TheCurlyPony said:



			Oh Ps. Your horse is stunning
		
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Oh thank you  have another photo, though he's a lot bigger than this now


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## cptrayes (6 August 2014)

be positive said:



			He is hardly over worked, have you tried taking him out after schooling, just a stretch once he has got a little tired sometimes mixing it up can help even though you will probably not be able to do a loop, my nervy hacking alone horse is going further each time, still turning back to come home, he is not nappy as such just gets scared of everything and roots to the spot rather than going forward, venturing further each time seems to be helping, although I am just about to go out and may be proved wrong depending on how he is feeling today, sitting them out is not always easy if there is traffic around.
		
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It's a good idea. I would need to limit the schooling session, because I live on a very steep hill and it's a lot of work just to walk up and down it, but that can be managed.


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## cptrayes (6 August 2014)

Dry Rot said:



			Loved the story about the horse responding to the hunting horn ring tone!

We train Highlands and have someone who can recognise the body language walking behind with a lunging whip. The whip never makes contact and a flick at the same time the pony even thinks of stopping blocks any thoughts of planting or hesitating. The signal is quite clear and the leg aid soon takes priority.

Could it be that the horse simply does not understand? That sounds naive but it is the answer to many training problems. Go back and teach that voice commands must be obeyed with lunging and long reining, then try combining voice with aids when ridden. I also agree to making planting less comfortable for the horse than walking on -- but not so uncomfortable that escape behaviour is the result.

In short, "walk on" means just that. Certainly, doing nothing is the way some animals cope with fear. It is also how they sometimes cope with uncertainly as they don't know what they should do next. First the trigger, then the action. There is no choice in the matter so no indecision.
		
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Thanks for posting DR.  There's no question of him not understanding. He will walk on as soon as I get off, he lunges perfectly in walk trot and canter and at present I still use voice commands in addition to leg aids when I am schooling. He understood, he just refused.  Toad   (apologies to toads, I'm sure some of you are very nice)


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## Tiddlypom (6 August 2014)

cptrayes said:



			Can I ask the people who would turn him away why they recommend that when in every respect except yesterday's new problem, he is improving with every passing day?
		
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I suggested turning him away because of what you have posted about him on previous threads. You were concerned with his general lack of co ordination and body awareness. 

If he can't organise his own limbs when he is not under saddle, then it seems to be a tall order to ask him to do it when carrying a rider. A period of time out at grass might see him grow up both mentally and physically, and he should find ridden work much easier.

It was, however, only a suggestion as I have never seen this horse, and was only going on how you had previously described him. If the planting is purely a behavioural thing, then roughing him off could well be counterproductive, as it needs working through.

If you feel that he is improving, then keeping him in low level work may be the way to go. 

It is not always easy to decide which is the best course of action .


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## cptrayes (6 August 2014)

Thanks TP,  that's good reasoning.  At the moment I feel he has more to lose by being turned away, and I cope with his issues by keeping work sessions short and easy.  I will try to keep an open mind on it though.


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## cptrayes (6 August 2014)

An update.


Ooh that went well 

I managed to dodge the 'showers' - actually torrential rain - and tried for a short hack.  He walked away from the block but he would not leave the yard. I wiggled, niggled and tickled him in various places with the whip. He got a bit irritated, but he would not budge.

I got off, walked him out of the gate and got back on. Same again.

I got off and walked him twenty five yards and got back on again. Same again.

I got off and walked him down to a gateway set back from the road and got back on again. He walked a couple of paces back to the road and I managed to keep him going left instead of turning right for home. 

He ground to a halt after five yards. I wiggled, niggled and irritated him, and just as I was about to get off he walked on down the hill. He thought about stopping again but as soon as I made it clear that the demented elf on his back would be irritating him again, he carried on. 

So I stopped him and started him a few times to make sure I really had it cracked, then asked him to trot twice, then brought him home.

A very successful outing, so thank you to everyone for your help, and particularly the people who told me about getting off and leading a really short distance before you remount.  I really didn't want to fall out with this sweet natured (normally!)  horse, and it looks as though it won't be necessary  

He will have two days off now to reflect on what a good boy he's been (or on how come he's been outwitted!)


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## leflynn (6 August 2014)

Excellent news  I laughed at the demented elf!


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## mairiwick (6 August 2014)

Good to hear you had a successful hack out! Sounds like he got the idea pretty quickly!


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## HannaST (6 August 2014)

Well done, sounds like you have found a good strategy, hopefully he will remember for next time


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## PorkChop (6 August 2014)

Great news - well done demented elf!


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## Dry Rot (6 August 2014)

Oh damn! I'm not really into those emaciated types and prefer something with a bit of flesh on it's bones but had hoped to pick up a bargain on Project Horses as he IS rather pretty &#8230;   But well done you! Glad it all worked out!


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## cptrayes (6 August 2014)

Dry Rot said:



			Oh damn! I'm not really into those emaciated types and prefer something with a bit of flesh on it's bones but had hoped to pick up a bargain on Project Horses as he IS rather pretty &#8230;   But well done you! Glad it all worked out!
		
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Hands orf my cow pony 

He comes from muscle bound show stock on dad's side, and he's chunking up nicely. He also looks on target for over sixteen two, so he's going to be quite an eyefull in another year or two.

Worth a few hassles to train, I think, I've always wanted a red and white horse 

Gotta love this forum sometimes. I wouldn't ever have thought of repeatedly getting off and back on again. It doesn't sound very sensible at all.


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## Mike007 (7 August 2014)

Glad I didn't have to read through all those pages . A useful technique I have used is to turn them around and back them up. He is still a small child of a horse ,to hit him would be a crime,but to outsmart him should be easy.


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## NZJenny (7 August 2014)

I was going to say get off and lead - it gives them confidence.  Had to do this with my gelding as a four year old, except he would rear.  It was just confidence and he got over it.


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## cptrayes (7 August 2014)

Mike007 said:



			Glad I didn't have to read through all those pages . A useful technique I have used is to turn them around and back them up. He is still a small child of a horse ,to hit him would be a crime,but to outsmart him should be easy.
		
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Ah well, if you'd read through all the pages you would have found that this horse didn't respond to that or any other technique but getting off and on and off and on and .....


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## cptrayes (7 August 2014)

NZJenny said:



			I was going to say get off and lead - it gives them confidence.  Had to do this with my gelding as a four year old, except he would rear.  It was just confidence and he got over it.
		
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I got off and led him the first day it happened Jenny (I had no choice!) but the key was to get off, lead only a few feet, and get back on again, repeatedly. He wasn't scared, he was refusing to go away from home.


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## NZJenny (7 August 2014)

cptrayes said:



			I got off and led him the first day it happened Jenny (I had no choice!) but the key was to get off, lead only a few feet, and get back on again, repeatedly. He wasn't scared, he was refusing to go away from home.
		
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Yes, I got that.  I wasn't about to walk any further than what I had to either - I paid to ride.    And there is a whole other thread on the so called cures for rearing.  

Just out of curiosity - why do you think he was refusing to go away from home?


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## cptrayes (7 August 2014)

NZJenny said:



			Yes, I got that.  I wasn't about to walk any further than what I had to either - I paid to ride.    And there is a whole other thread on the so called cures for rearing.  

Just out of curiosity - why do you think he was refusing to go away from home?
		
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The same reason they all do, if they do.  He didn't want to leave his buddy. Given the choice, I think most horse would choose to stay in the yard with their mates, they just agree to hack, especially alone, because we ask them to.


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## HannaST (7 August 2014)

cptrayes said:



			The same reason they all do, if they do.  He didn't want to leave his buddy. Given the choice, I think most horse would choose to stay in the yard with their mates, they just agree to hack, especially alone, because we ask them to.
		
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Agree with this - mine is the same. He will hack, but only whilst telling me that he'd rather go back. I hope he will become more confident with time. I think many horses love being worked so much that they start enjoying the hack despite the "loneliness", but in my experience, a good group of "friends" in a nice field back home will usually be what they run back to if given the choice.


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## cptrayes (7 August 2014)

HannaST said:



			Agree with this - mine is the same. He will hack, but only whilst telling me that he'd rather go back. I hope he will become more confident with time. I think many horses love being worked so much that they start enjoying the hack despite the "loneliness", but in my experience, a good group of "friends" in a nice field back home will usually be what they run back to if given the choice.
		
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 I had a one in a million horse once who just loved to work. He would, unless you turned him in, march straight past his own gateway to carry on the hack. But he was very, very, unusual


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## HannaST (7 August 2014)

cptrayes said:



			I had a one in a million horse once who just loved to work. He would, unless you turned him in, march straight past his own gateway to carry on the hack. But he was very, very, unusual 

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My old horse would go back to the field, but once we were out of the gates, he would - if given the choice - pick his way through a series of 3-4 crossroads, go down a narrow path and into the river where we used to swim


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## cptrayes (7 August 2014)

Hannah, your post reminded me that I was at a one day event once, and had finished the show jumping and dropped the reins. The horse I mentioned above stuck his head in the air, did a periscope act until he spotted the white square box of the cross country start, which was a long way away, and took me over to it. What a horse he was!

He was also once seen jumping a course of show jumps that happened to be on the field he was grazing, and that was after he'd been retired with hock spavins.


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## HannaST (7 August 2014)

cptrayes said:



			Hannah, your post reminded me that I was at a one day event once, and had finished the show jumping and dropped the reins. The horse I mentioned above stuck his head in the air, did a periscope act until he spotted the white square box of the cross country start, which was a long way away, and took me over to it. What a horse he was!

He was also once seen jumping a course of show jumps that happened to be on the field he was grazing, and that was after he'd been retired with hock spavins.
		
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He sounds like something else!  Love it when they do stuff of their own accord! Managed to get mine walking over the tarpaulin on his own today, although that was with the incentive of lots of scratching on his itchy back.


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## cptrayes (8 August 2014)

He was, his full story would be a book, but he was bought at four, broken,  did BE  novice, was sold, starved, rescued, given away, emigrated to America and died a couple of years ago after an unsuccessful colic operation.


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## Jericho (8 August 2014)

Happy Hunter said:



			Been there, done that.  
MY solution (NOT saying it works for all) - Is waiting, not 'beating' but wiggle wiggle (Bottom not hands!) or poke poke poke  - Just make him know that this is NOT what you want, make going forwards the nice easy option. Have to admit I have used one of those big fat rope things swung about just to get some movement, anything!
Waiting with a book is just standing still fun for them!

Either that, or wait until they are cubbing (Sorry Autumn hunting) around the corner,,, hack to join in - and for the next month he will be dragging YOU out to go have some fun!!! 
Good luck
		
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I would try this approach.^^. Make the planting really irritating for him, prod, poke, nudge - anything which makes it less fun for him and the minute he makes any forward movement give him a reward ie. stop irritating him and praise.  It's a sit and wait game so that his only nice option is go forward... Good luck!


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## HannaST (8 August 2014)

cptrayes said:



			He was, his full story would be a book, but he was bought at four, broken,  did BE  novice, was sold, starved, rescued, given away, emigrated to America and died a couple of years ago after an unsuccessful colic operation.
		
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That would be a book!!


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## TGM (8 August 2014)

cptrayes said:



			He would, unless you turned him in, march straight past his own gateway to carry on the hack. But he was very, very, unusual 

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We have one like that now - if you ride him on the buckle he will walk right past the yard gateway and carry on down the lane - I think he just loves exploring!


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## ILuvCowparsely (8 August 2014)

cptrayes said:



			I've got a planter, and unfortunately I bought it from a horse dealer and not a garden centre 

So, excuse the length this is going to be but I'm going to try to give all the relevant information up front so people don't waste their time giving answers that can't help.

Horse is four, was backed for me this spring and I have continued his education. He is spectacularly unaware of his own body, very immature mentally, and both nervous and curious in character. I have broken many horses successfully, including another four year old I currently own.

He was hacking out alone with increasing confidence (but still not what you would call confident, just improving each time). When nervous, he clacks his mouth like a foal and is very easy to 'read'.

Today, he planted, and nothing I could do would move him. In the end, I led him out and rode him back. I think this was mostly napping, because he was not foal mouthing.

So, obvious answers to this are:

Go out in company. Difficult. Nearest horsey neighbours are three miles away or more, ten miles by horsebox. Friends who are experienced enough to come and accompany me on my other four year old are busy with their own horses. I could pay, but I'd like to avoid the twenty quid an hour it will cost for the two people I know who I would trust to do it.  

Beat him.  I would have done this in the past, but I would prefer to take a different approach now that I don't bounce so well, and in view of what a nervous horse and slow learner he is generally.

Get off lead him. This is what I did today, and what I would prefer to do in future of necessary.

So.....  what's the question, I hear you ask ?

There are two 

- have I missed an alternative way of stopping him planting?

- do you have success stories of where 'get off and lead' has worked for horses of this type?  Our is your experience that the problem will simply continue if I do this?  

All suggestions welcome, thanks in advance 

Click to expand...


 For me if I could do nothing for him I would search some higher authority who is used to dealing with serious problems like Chris Haywood
http://www.bhs.org.uk/enjoy-riding/find-an-instructor-or-groom/people/abc/chris-haywood
http://www.breakspearridingclub.co.uk/events/showjumpingtraining


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## Liane (8 August 2014)

I had a QH x that did this, but he would plant anywhere, I would take him to the school and do a bit of quiet, gentle free schooling in walk and trot for 10min and the second day you went to take him round to the school he would plant and then you would have to wait it out, I sold him in the end as we just didn't click. 

However I had more luck with a friends TB who used to plant out hacking, I found if I sat there and squeezed with my legs, literally constantly (not pressure on and off) and waited, the minute he even thought about moving forwards I released the pressure slightly and if he moved a foot forward I took my leg off and patted him. It took me a while but after doing this for several hours one day he never planted with me again as when I squeezed hard with my legs he knew I wasn't going to stop until he moved. It was like we had a breakthrough in understanding, but with him if you kicked or hit he would go backwards and get wound up so I had to be calm but keep the pressure on.


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## unicornystar (8 August 2014)

cptrayes said:



			No, I tried all the tricks that have stood me in good stead before with napping flat racers hacking alone for the first time. Sideways, backwards, any way at all. At first I managed to rock him off one front foot and get one sideways step, but then he got wise to that and stood splay footed. He was very calm, just completely obstinate. He tried to shut down mentally, but I stopped that by tapping him randomly all over his body. He just point blank refused to lift a foot off the road!
		
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My 7 year old does this, and isnt particularly nervious just lacking in self belief I think!

I cannot get into mega argument, and yes I've tried! But one day one of us will get hurt....so we do a bit of hop off totally ignore and pop back on again...not a habit I like to get into but recommended twice now by a qualified expert.

Long reining, I havent found it makes a jot of difference! My horse simply shuts down, locks shoulder, we can go any direction and spin him the lot, he's planted!

They are the most curious of creatures and I have no explanation for my chap at all! 

He will follow a bike, dog, walker, sometimes goes out fine on his own! but another day, just decides nope....and there we have it!!!

I would definately try a softer approach than the "beat it" version, having tried both...i do think once you create something negative it then makes a huge issue out of it!

My next line of action with mine is to try steady up by feedmark which worked wonders on my old nappy tb,....took 6 weeks but it did work...


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## cptrayes (8 August 2014)

TGM said:



			We have one like that now - if you ride him on the buckle he will walk right past the yard gateway and carry on down the lane - I think he just loves exploring!
		
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It's just a joy to ride a horse like this, isn't it  ?


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