# Newton Stud slurry death



## ester (12 February 2021)

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## Roxylola (12 February 2021)

I saw this on Facebook, bit disappointed that the BD page took it down and implied she was mud slinging and unjustified. 
I felt she was quite reasonable in what she said. It's a terrible tragedy for her - slurry disposal is a huge danger; I remember when I first loaned a horse we rented stables on a dairy farm and the muck heap was a case of tipping your barrow off the top in to the slurry below, I was often up there alone and the thought of falling genuinely terrified me


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## ester (12 February 2021)

Did they 

it's not like she is the only one given the issues with other youngstock that has been lost on the site. (iirc mostly R. equi issues)


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## ihatework (12 February 2021)

It’s pretty horrific isn’t it.
I suppose when you have the numbers of horses passing through your hands as they do it’s inevitable that there will be accidents/losses at times. But the general gist I’ve heard over the last couple of years is the general attitude to clients.
That, in addition to a vitriolic and unprofessional post from Newnton last season about semen quality and I have to say they have gone on my list of establishments not to get involved with.


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## AShetlandBitMeOnce (12 February 2021)

I saw this too - I think an important part to note is that this was not slurry; yes it was a slurry pit but in fact was filled with meat sludge from the abattoir which they then spread on their fields. Not wholly relevant to the horses awful death but is relevant to some of the other points made against this yard. I am glad she got her way in/out of court, credit to her for fighting this to the bitter end, they should be held completely liable.

The amount of people who have come forward with stories of having their horses die at the hands of these people is shocking, I hadn't heard of them before and was super surprised to see Carl Hester had one of his broodmares there. (No comment on Carl, I have not a single bad word to say about him, just usually controversial yards don't have any names of note anywhere near them.)


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## TheMule (12 February 2021)

Unfortunately there's a lot coming out on social media about them, this doesn’t seem to be an isolated incident. I agree you have to consider they are a large operation with many horses coming through their doors through the breeding season so of course there are going to be illnesses, injuries and losses, but you can’t forgive the lack of honest communication and then appalling unprofessional behavior on social media.
I gave them a mare for ET. I certainly wouldn’t if I had known their reputation 😥


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## ihatework (12 February 2021)

AShetlsndBitMeOnce - they are a big and relatively well respected breeding establishment, with good repro vets, a LOT of supporters, big name and big value horses go there. I’ve got personal friends who are very supportive of them.

It sounds to me like they are very good ... until they aren’t, then they don’t have the clients back


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## SEL (12 February 2021)

I saw this yesterday and thought it was shocking


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## AShetlandBitMeOnce (12 February 2021)

ihatework said:



			AShetlsndBitMeOnce - they are a big and relatively well respected breeding establishment, with good repro vets, a LOT of supporters, big name and big value horses go there. I’ve got personal friends who are very supportive of them.

It sounds to me like they are very good ... until they aren’t, then they don’t have the clients back
		
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Ohh right, that's my lack of knowledge then, I knew through reading the post that they're an established name but I didn't know that they're generally quite well thought of.


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## ester (12 February 2021)

Ah yes now you mention it I did know re. the meat products. 
It seems no one has gone fully to court with them but taken settlements and signed NDAs


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## TheMule (12 February 2021)

The sludge from the abattoir is basically what you cut out of the dead animal's intestines- it is very commonly used as a fertilizer, it isn't a meat product. It is a bit disgusting, but not really a welfare issue in itself IMO


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## ester (12 February 2021)

yup my bad paraphrasing sorry! and def didn't mean to imply it was a welfare issue in itself.


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## Roxylola (12 February 2021)

ester said:



			Did they 

it's not like she is the only one given the issues with other youngstock that has been lost on the site. (iirc mostly R. equi issues)
		
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Yes, although I now can't find the post they put up about it. I think it seemed to be the implication of the rider being involved somehow they mainly objected to. As others have commented though it doesn't seem to be an isolated incident and while they are pretty top notch until things go wrong


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## milliepops (12 February 2021)

Roxylola said:



			Yes, although I now can't find the post they put up about it. I think it seemed to be the implication of the rider being involved somehow they mainly objected to. As others have commented though it doesn't seem to be an isolated incident and while they are pretty top notch until things go wrong
		
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i think the person who closed the post is connected to the people involved in other ways though, the BD groups on FB are not administered by BD so will be prone to these kind of personal decisions.


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## AShetlandBitMeOnce (12 February 2021)

TheMule said:



			The sludge from the abattoir is basically what you cut out of the dead animal's intestines- it is very commonly used as a fertilizer, it isn't a meat product. It is a bit disgusting, but not really a welfare issue in itself IMO
		
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I think the implication in some of the posts on the original post about the stud is that this could be a contributory factor for the high rate of illness that seems to run through the stud.   I have no idea on whether this could be right or not, I know nothing about it.


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## Roxylola (12 February 2021)

TheMule said:



			The sludge from the abattoir is basically what you cut out of the dead animal's intestines- it is very commonly used as a fertilizer, it isn't a meat product. It is a bit disgusting, but not really a welfare issue in itself IMO
		
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Feels a bit Frankenfoods though in my (uneducated) opinion. 
I know how fertiliser works and excrement is excrement etc and I'm assuming it would have time to be absorbed before any stock was on that land, but from an abattoir do they really have time and motivation to ensure there are no animal remains in it at all? 
And from there it doesn't seem like a huge stretch to look at how mixing meat in to herbivore food chains landed us with bse and cjd. 
From an ignorant bystander, with an interest in horses, that alone would make me think twice about sending a horse there 🤷‍♀️


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## teapot (12 February 2021)

The same Die Callas that at the time was reported to have died unexpectedly in the field?

Also, why's a stud yard got an open pit, regardless of content? H&S nightmare.


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## sport horse (12 February 2021)

I did hear that they have Rhodococcus Equi which if you google it could well be the cause of some of the reported deaths. I made this known to someone who had a horse at Newton, that person had said horse blood tested when it returned to them and it tested positive.  This will be in the soil so a long term problem.


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## shortstuff99 (12 February 2021)

It was also mentioned on the BD (unofficial) group that the editor at H&H had close ties to the stud and that is why it has never been mentioned.


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## sport horse (12 February 2021)

Maybe now it is officially settled out of court as opposed to an upcoming case the media may take notice? Interesting that one of the people concerend is an H & H columnist?


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## teapot (12 February 2021)

shortstuff99 said:



			It was also mentioned on the BD (unofficial) group that the editor at H&H had close ties to the stud and that is why it has never been mentioned.
		
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The editor or an editor? One will have more sway than the other.


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## Lady2021 (12 February 2021)

Why the hack do they have a  open pit   My uncle is a farmer and they have to be close for health and safety.


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## shortstuff99 (12 February 2021)

teapot said:



			The editor or an editor? One will have more sway than the other.
		
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From how they had written it I would hazard a guess at THE editor.


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## eggs (12 February 2021)

shortstuff99 said:



			From how they had written it I would hazard a guess at THE editor.
		
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The H&H editor mentioned by name in one of the comments hasn't appeared on the list of editors for a little while now although she certainly did used to be a features editor


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## Pinkvboots (12 February 2021)

I can't get onto Facebook did the horse eat from contaminated land?


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## teapot (12 February 2021)

Pinkvboots said:



			I can't get onto Facebook did the horse eat from contaminated land?
		
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No, it drowned in a slurry pit.


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## TheMule (12 February 2021)

Roxylola said:



			Feels a bit Frankenfoods though in my (uneducated) opinion.
I know how fertiliser works and excrement is excrement etc and I'm assuming it would have time to be absorbed before any stock was on that land, but from an abattoir do they really have time and motivation to ensure there are no animal remains in it at all?
And from there it doesn't seem like a huge stretch to look at how mixing meat in to herbivore food chains landed us with bse and cjd.
From an ignorant bystander, with an interest in horses, that alone would make me think twice about sending a horse there 🤷‍♀️
		
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I only have experience from one abattoir so I'm not certain, it's done pretty quickly and I can imagine it's full of adult worms etc. I wouldnt want it anywhere near my land, I've spent time in the gut room 🤮


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## shortstuff99 (12 February 2021)

teapot said:



			No, it drowned in a slurry pit.
		
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I think what makes this even stranger is she was an Olympic dressage horse, that the rider was taking to the olympics (short list anyway). You would think a yard would treat an Olympic horse like they were made of gold! 

I know no horse deserves to go like that but when an owner is paying thousands for that calibre of horse 😬


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## SEL (12 February 2021)

shortstuff99 said:



			I think what makes this even stranger is she was an Olympic dressage horse, that the rider was taking to the olympics (short list anyway). You would think a yard would treat an Olympic horse like they were made of gold!

I know no horse deserves to go like that but when an owner is paying thousands for that calibre of horse 😬
		
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I wouldn't even let my 3 legged fluffy crowd near a slurry pit and I'm fairly relaxed about turnout conditions!


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## shortstuff99 (12 February 2021)

SEL said:



			I wouldn't even let my 3 legged fluffy crowd near a slurry pit and I'm fairly relaxed about turnout conditions!
		
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Well quite! If it was their horse though at least that is just their problem, but this was someone's pride and joy! How they can just dismiss it as they have and not be so so apologetic is just baffling. That's what puts me off really, how can they have so little care.


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## doodle (12 February 2021)

So did horse get away from a handler? Or did it escape from a field? Ie HOW did it land up in the pit. And why on earth was the pit not secured so a horse couldn’t get to it? We all
Know the scrapes horses can get in to but what happened?


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## ycbm (12 February 2021)

And why did the owner have to sue to get recompense? 
.


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## Michen (12 February 2021)

Wrong post! Deleted


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## druid (12 February 2021)

Plenty of big TB stud struggle with Rhodococcus too - it's why there's so much research into vaccines and R.Equi plasma


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## Roxylola (12 February 2021)

ycbm said:



			And why did the owner have to sue to get recompense? 
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I don't know how it happened, and I don't know that she was actually compensated, only that she was satisfied by the result.
Reading what she said i think the biggest issue was not just having lost what was clearly a pretty special horse and not having so much as a baise mon cul from a person she clearly liked respected and thought a lot of (probably considered a dear friend). 
She was then billed (and chased) for outstanding livery by the stud. Which seems to have been the driving force behind the court stuff. So whatever the agreement is it may have been just them agreeing that she doesn't owe them money


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## Pinkvboots (12 February 2021)

teapot said:



			No, it drowned in a slurry pit.
		
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Oh  no I was really hoping it wasn't that how awful I would be devastated poor horse poor woman


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## Pinkvboots (12 February 2021)

Kamikaze said:



			So did horse get away from a handler? Or did it escape from a field? Ie HOW did it land up in the pit. And why on earth was the pit not secured so a horse couldn’t get to it? We all
Know the scrapes horses can get in to but what happened?
		
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See this is what I am struggling to understand how it happened as well?


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## doodle (12 February 2021)

I’m sure it is like everything else, we don’t have the full story and things happened that will never come out, far far more to it. But a hugely expensive horse? On a hugely “experienced” yard? There should have been safety features that meant no horse should ever have accidentally got in to the pit.


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## Brunocat (12 February 2021)

I was going to send my mare there for retirement I’m so glad I didn’t. What a lucky escape.


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## ester (13 February 2021)

druid said:



			Plenty of big TB stud struggle with Rhodococcus too - it's why there's so much research into vaccines and R.Equi plasma
		
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Yup, I think it was mostly the communication to owners which came up as the main issue before, ie there wasn't any then it was dead.


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## Lois Lame (13 February 2021)

Roxylola said:



			I don't know how it happened, and I don't know that she was actually compensated, only that she was satisfied by the result.
Reading what she said i think the biggest issue was not just having lost what was clearly a pretty special horse and not having so much as a baise mon cul from a person she clearly liked respected and thought a lot of (probably considered a dear friend).
She was then billed (and chased) for outstanding livery by the stud. Which seems to have been the driving force behind the court stuff. So whatever the agreement is it may have been just them agreeing that she doesn't owe them money
		
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Oh my gosh, it could be that.

I want to know how the horse had access to the slurry pit as well.


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## fairyclare (13 February 2021)

There are 3 sides to every story, your side, my side and the truth - in this case I suspect the truth will never be told. 

Very sad, I just can't imagine it.


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## Alyssa_hercules (13 February 2021)

Lois Lame said:



			Oh my gosh, it could be that.

I want to know how the horse had access to the slurry pit as well.
		
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I’m on a foaling Facebook group that shared the post and someone commented a photo of the slurry pit and it is with in a field with horses grazing around it and what surprised me more is that the is no visible fencing around the pit, Newton stud from what I’ve heard is became very unprofessional and the living standards for Youngstock and mares have became worse for them and a quite worrisome amount of Youngstock that have been bought have been found to have illness and have died not long after going to their owners.


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## Alyssa_hercules (14 February 2021)

Yep they don’t have any fencing around the pit so it wasn’t a handler incident at all just the complete negligence of newton stud and if you look close there are horses grazing in the same field as the pit


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## TheMule (14 February 2021)

Alyssa_hercules said:



			Yep they don’t have any fencing around the pit so it wasn’t a handler incident at all just the complete negligence of newton stud and if you look close there are horses grazing in the same field as the pit
		
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To be fair, there quite clearly is a fence between the pit and the horses there. 
If you've had an incident with a horse getting over/ through a fence and diving in that manner I would probably be putting in another/ higher one.


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## ycbm (14 February 2021)

TheMule said:



			To be fair, there quite clearly is a fence between the pit and the horses there.
If you've had an incident with a horse getting over/ through a fence and diving in that manner I would probably be putting in another/ higher one.
		
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One strand of electric tape?  I would not graze a horse there.  
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## Red-1 (14 February 2021)

ycbm said:



			One strand of electric tape?  I would not graze a horse there. 
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Me neither, I would expect a full 4 rail post and rail round the actual pit, and secondary fencing to keep the horse away from that. But then, we have 2 fences between out horses and the road too. One can be electric, but always 2 strands. The other is post and rail or hedging.


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## Tiddlypom (14 February 2021)

TheMule said:



			To be fair, there quite clearly is a fence between the pit and the horses there.
If you've had an incident with a horse getting over/ through a fence and diving in that manner I would probably be putting in another/ higher one.
		
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*Probably* putting in another fence?




That puny fencing, with double spaced fence posts, may possibly do to subdivide a grazing paddock, but is wholly unsuitable to be any sort of perimeter fence, let alone one with such an obvious hazard just the other side of it.

That slurry pit should have been fenced off like Fort Knox.


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## Clodagh (14 February 2021)

I'd have thought heras fencing around it would have worked. But too late to save the horse, its the sort of death that gives you nightmares.


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## TheMule (14 February 2021)

Tiddlypom said:



*Probably* putting in another fence?

View attachment 65838


That puny fencing, with double spaced fence posts, may possibly do to subdivide a grazing paddock, but is wholly unsuitable to be any sort of perimeter fence, let alone one with such an obvious hazard just the other side of it.

That slurry pit should have been fenced off like Fort Knox.
		
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Well, you can’t actually see the detail of the fence- I imagine it is a stock fence with a strand of tape above

But I don’t think I'm the one to be jumping on, this is not my slurry pit or fencing arrangement, I was responding to the fact the poster above me said there was NO fence


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## Red-1 (14 February 2021)

Oh my, I went onto Jane Sewell's FB page (after searching Newton Stud and finding her posts) and I am amazed.

So many different people with similar stories (not about the slurry pit, but about bad treatment, non disclosure of incidents and lies). 

One poor horse was supposed to have abscesses, but ended up with a detached pedal bone going through the foot. Took place over months, 

https://scontent.flhr4-2.fna.fbcdn....=f6d14fe53e4c5e51cd9941f1a4319a06&oe=604F5260

As an owner of a lami horse, I would be in bits at the pain the poor horse must have been in.


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## sport horse (14 February 2021)

It gives a whole new meaning to the banner on their website 'Horse Heaven in Deepest Devon'.  Hopefully all the reported horses that have lost their lives there have at least gone to Horsey Heaven.  Their owners meanwhile have paid £250 + VAT per month for their horses to be grazing what seems to be contaminated land.


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## Meowy Catkin (14 February 2021)

This is horrific!  Poor, poor filly.



Red-1 said:



			Oh my, I went onto Jane Sewell's FB page (after searching Newton Stud and finding her posts) and I am amazed.

So many different people with similar stories (not about the slurry pit, but about bad treatment, non disclosure of incidents and lies). 

One poor horse was supposed to have abscesses, but ended up with a detached pedal bone going through the foot. Took place over months, 







As an owner of a lami horse, I would be in bits at the pain the poor horse must have been in.
		
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## OldNag (14 February 2021)

How deep would a pit like that normally be? I'm really surprised it's not fenced off with something really effective.  I would have thought from a H&S view it would need to be?

Edit: just found this, which is quite interesting... 
https://cornishmutual.co.uk/news/av...se only entering a,when slurry is being mixed.


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## Eyore (14 February 2021)

Do you need planning permission for a slurry pit?


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## Frumpoon (14 February 2021)

It’s the breathtaking arrogance that irks me

A big, well known, well financed stud just shouldn’t have preventable incidents like this but then to issue a claim for the livery is unthinkable

Nothing can replace a much loved animal but a mare like that must have been worth six figures. As an owner I’d want recompense as recognition of the almighty clock up caused


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## Eyore (14 February 2021)

It doesn't matter how much the horse was worth; it should not have happened, the horse should not have been able to get to the slurry pit, I know accidents happen, but this was preventable...


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## Tiddlypom (14 February 2021)

Eyore said:



			Do you need planning permission for a slurry pit?
		
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Without checking, almost certainly yes, and within tight environmental guidelines re run off, not contaminating watercourses etc.

It’s hard enough to get PP for a muck heap for 3 horses.

ETA 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/storing-silage-slurry-and-agricultural-fuel-oil


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## Arzada (14 February 2021)

Red-1 said:



			One poor horse was supposed to have abscesses, but ended up with a detached pedal bone going through the foot. Took place over months,

https://scontent.flhr4-2.fna.fbcdn....=f6d14fe53e4c5e51cd9941f1a4319a06&oe=604F5260

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So basically the 2 yo filly was seen once by a vet in the four months of lameness and pain and twice in the filly's final 10 days of agony even though there is a resident vet based at the stud who does not charge call out fees to resident horses:

'Newton Stud is partnered with a local equine-specialist practice, Equus Vets, to provide top quality care for the horses at the stud. Treatment is provided with no call-out fees for horses resident at the stud, offering our clients the best possible value. Our stud vet is based on-site ...' http://www.newtonstud.co.uk/breeding.html


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## rascal (14 February 2021)

What a waste, poor horse and owner, that pit should be secure.


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## Eyore (14 February 2021)

Tiddlypom said:



			Without checking, almost certainly yes, and within tight environmental guidelines re run off, not contaminating watercourses etc.

It’s hard enough to get PP for a muck heap for 3 horses.

ETA

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/storing-silage-slurry-and-agricultural-fuel-oil

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I have just done some research,  apparently you dont need pp as long as government guidelines are met.


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## Arzada (14 February 2021)

The HSE guidance https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/ais9.pdf but 'Following the guidance is not compulsory ...' page 5


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## Muddywellies (15 February 2021)

I've seen this bubbling away on social media all weekend.  Regardless of my thoughts, I think it a sad sign of the times when people publicly air their dirty laundry.  I think it's a private matter between NS and the owner of the horse.  The owner suffered a terrible and I'm guessing preventable loss, but it doesn't involve anyone else.   If anyone is considering doing business with NS, it's up to them to visit, make their own enquiries and decide for themselves.


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## Tiddlypom (15 February 2021)

Actually, I’d rather know about something like this, and the attitude of the people that I was considering entrusting my horses to.

I wouldn’t like to have something awful happen to my horse and for other people ‘in the know’ to then say ‘Oh, yeah, that’s happened there before’.


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## Eyore (15 February 2021)

Muddywellies said:



			I've seen this bubbling away on social media all weekend.  Regardless of my thoughts, I think it a sad sign of the times when people publicly air their dirty laundry.  I think it's a private matter between NS and the owner of the horse.  The owner suffered a terrible and I'm guessing preventable loss, but it doesn't involve anyone else.   If anyone is considering doing business with NS, it's up to them to visit, make their own enquiries and decide for themselves.
		
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A lot won't agree, but I think maybe you are right.


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## Roxylola (15 February 2021)

What I've seen hasn't come across as dirty laundry airing just sharing of information. The stud i believe claimed the mare simply died at pasture not this dreadful _preventable_ accident. I actually think the owner of Die Callas has been quite restrained in what shes posted on Facebook. 
As they're offering services to the public I think its important this is available to enable people to make an informed decision


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## CanteringCarrot (15 February 2021)

I've no problem with people leaving reviews, good or bad, as long as they're truthful. That's the nice thing about the internet, so much info at your fingertips. I get making a decision on your own, but as someone who has moved a lot over the years and who has made significant investments, I appreciate people like this speaking up. 

I'm not about to clutch my pearls at someone "airing their dirty laundry" since they are within their rights to do so and could prevent such a terrible accident from occurring again.


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## Arzada (15 February 2021)

I would most definitely want to know. I think it's a very informative thread for anyone looking for livery especially when the occasional poster is advised to look for youngstock livery for their youngster.


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## Muddywellies (15 February 2021)

I think the term 'public service' has been misconstrued.    This is a civil matter which I assume has gone to court and then been settled out of court.    This brings the matter to a conclusion.  There is no need to then take to social media.  Something here clearly went horribly wrong for the horse and its owner and my heart truly goes out to her, but it doesn't need to be then published on social media once a settlement has been reached.  By all means leave a fairly poor review via the relevant channels but I just don't agree with venting publicly on social media.   And to then have others jumping on the bandwagon bringing Anna Ross into the equation too?   What was the owner hoping to do by writing the article?   I guess her motive was to stop it happening again to someone else.  But we can't do that.  We can't control what other people think and do.   The matter should have had a line drawn under it when the out of court settlement was made.   We don't know all the facts here and therefore are not qualified to comment.  Thats the court's job.


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## HufflyPuffly (15 February 2021)

The point is though, that the previous court proceedings and subsequent NDA's have meant the treatment of horses and clients and attitude of the stud has been swept under the carpet as people were not aware of the failings this stud has had on multiple occasions. Anna Ross is involved in both the stud and the rider of the horse, it does not put her in a great light.

The way the stud acted originally on social media against the owner was despicable, I've been following this story since it first came to light.


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## honetpot (15 February 2021)

I think they were just very lucky, if it had been a human accident they would have had the HSE and a massive fine.
There are rules for slurry pits and muck heaps,
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/storing-silage-slurry-and-agricultural-fuel-oil
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/storing-organic-manures-in-nitrate-vulnerable-zones


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## milliepops (15 February 2021)

HufflyPuffly said:



			The point is though, that the previous court proceedings and subsequent NDA's have meant the treatment of horses and clients and attitude of the stud has been swept under the carpet as people were not aware of the failings this stud has had on multiple occasions. Anna Ross is involved in both the stud and the rider of the horse, it does not put her in a great light.

The way the stud acted originally on social media against the owner was despicable, I've been following this story since it first came to light.
		
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yup agreed.


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## AandK (15 February 2021)

The owner of the horse in question has posted about this before, it is not a case of waiting for the settlement and then "airing her dirty laundry in public". This is absolutely something that should be made public, especially it seems there are many others who have lost horses and been treated as badly.


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## shortstuff99 (15 February 2021)

There are plenty of other court cases which once settled are then reported in the media, why would this be any different? Would you be bothered if a dodgy dealer was found guilty or settled out of court and that was reported?


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## ester (15 February 2021)

AandK said:



			The owner of the horse in question has posted about this before, it is not a case of waiting for the settlement and then "airing her dirty laundry in public". This is absolutely something that should be made public, especially it seems there are many others who have lost horses and been treated as badly.
		
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Absolutely due to everything that went before this point it was already well into the public domain, as is some of the other issues people have experienced with using Newton Stud and some not, due to NDAs being in place.

Not sure why the owner shouldn't talk about the conclusion of proceedings?

Anna Ross was already in the equation? Not sure who is supposed to have 'brought her into it', It is my recollection that she had also taken to facebook herself without really doing herself any favours.


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## CanteringCarrot (15 February 2021)

Muddywellies said:



			I think the term 'public service' has been misconstrued.    This is a civil matter which I assume has gone to court and then been settled out of court.    This brings the matter to a conclusion.  There is no need to then take to social media.  Something here clearly went horribly wrong for the horse and its owner and my heart truly goes out to her, but it doesn't need to be then published on social media once a settlement has been reached.  By all means leave a fairly poor review via the relevant channels but I just don't agree with venting publicly on social media.   And to then have others jumping on the bandwagon bringing Anna Ross into the equation too?   What was the owner hoping to do by writing the article?   I guess her motive was to stop it happening again to someone else.  But we can't do that.  We can't control what other people think and do.   The matter should have had a line drawn under it when the out of court settlement was made.   We don't know all the facts here and therefore are not qualified to comment.  Thats the court's job.
		
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Yes, it brings the case to a conclusion, but that doesn't negate the fact that it happened. By writing the article the owner was hoping to share her experience a

nd educate others on what happened. This may prompt others to avoid the stud, take a closer look at the stud, and to be more cautious around slurry pits. It might even prompt the stud to bolster their security around the slurry pit and maybe "tighten up" a bit in their actions since this isn't the first time some questionable goings on have occurred there. 

Sure, sh*t happens and horses find trouble, but how the stud handled it wasn't exactly great. If you don't like the consequences of your actions, such as being put on social media, take a look a good hard look at your actions. The horse owner wouldn't be in this position or writing this article if the stud had been a bit more graceful about it.

We CAN stop it from happening to someone else. This may make the stud, as I mentioned, bolster their security and be more cautious about their slurry. Might prompt others with a slurry pit to think for a moment too. We cannot say that no one will take action as a result of this being on social media.

And heck, if we aren't qualified to comment on it based off of what we know, this whole forum shouldn't exist. We're constantly making comments on here about stuff we're not qualified to, by your definition. We are neither the judge nor jury, we are not handing down a ruling here, nothing official, just discussion. 

When such a devastating thing occurs, it is likely to make its way onto social media nowadays. If someone makes the personal choice to truthfully share an experience, to me, that's fine. We can agree to disagree, also fine.


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## rascal (15 February 2021)

I think owners are entitled to know what happened, will be a warning to other owners, who may bethinking of sending their own horses there. This was avoidable with a secure fence around the slurry pit, and really can not believe some of the well known owners, breeders on their facebook page.


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## Muddywellies (15 February 2021)

We're just hearing one side of the story and from that, people are jumping on the bandwagon, and bringing other parties into the equation.


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## milliepops (15 February 2021)

Muddywellies said:



			We're just hearing one side of the story and from that, people are jumping on the bandwagon, and bringing other parties into the equation.
		
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Anna Ross is in the pockets of the stud though, they are so closely linked in their enterprises. if she wanted to distance herself from all of this she should have done so much earlier IMO.  

If it was all a big misunderstanding then the stud could take some action to clear their name. they are not backward about coming forward on social media - last year there was a ding dong with them ridiculing a client on facebook which went down like a lead balloon...


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## DabDab (15 February 2021)

A horse in their care died in a slurry pit on their land, there's a certain amount of 'the facts speak for themselves'


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## Roxylola (15 February 2021)

Muddywellies said:



			We're just hearing one side of the story and from that, people are jumping on the bandwagon, and bringing other parties into the equation.
		
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I've not seen any jumping on band wagons or other uninvolved parties being brought in. Ms Sewell has imo been admirably dispassionate in stating the facts considering how upset and angry she must feel about the whole thing


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## ester (15 February 2021)

Muddywellies said:



			We're just hearing one side of the story and from that, people are jumping on the bandwagon, and bringing other parties into the equation.
		
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Historically we did hear the other side iirc. Nothing is stopping them from speaking again if they wish.


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## sherry90 (15 February 2021)

The stud apparently delete any negative reviews from the page so perhaps that is why this lady has gone public? 
Whilst it is more civil and between two parties they operate as a business and sometimes reviews do become public knowledge and others have since come forward with their own experiences which makes it more concerning and relevant for others to be aware and conduct due diligence before using their services.

They are also in partnership with the on-site vets so perhaps that is why there’s a bit of closed doors on the findings from any death or illness?

The spreading of slurry and abattoir waste and meat by products/sludge is of great concern and could be reason as to why a number of horses are reported to be sick from the stud that have grazed there. The environment agency are apparently investigating too as they have not been storing or spreading as per permits.

The stud have been vocal on issues before, I seem to recall a very shirty comment about a client regarding some semen and a tongue in cheek jab post about that, that said it all for me back then about how they conduct their business and their silence now speaks volumes....


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## sport horse (15 February 2021)

It is also not just one horse that has died - there are up to 8 being reported which does seem a bit concerning if that is true.


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## Mule (15 February 2021)

It's bizarre to me that they have the pit right in the middle of the field. The slurry pits I've seen are all in a closed off yard. They are contained by very high concrete walls on 3 sides with a big metal gate to access the entrance which is closed when not in use. I thought that was the norm. Tbh, I wouldn't keep an animal in a yard with a pit that wasnt designed that way


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## Mule (15 February 2021)

There'd also be a risk of runoff on the land during periods of high rain.


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## Nasicus (15 February 2021)

Muddywellies said:



			We're just hearing one side of the story and from that, people are jumping on the bandwagon, and bringing other parties into the equation.
		
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I think it's important though. If it wasn't for this being made public, discussion wouldn't be had, and facts such as the open sludge pit, and the occurrence of R. equi on site.
It's not like they're about to volunteer this information, and people should have all the facts before choosing them to send their horses to. Lord knows I nearly did for my first youngster, and if I had known these facts I wouldn't have even bothered enquiring.


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## ycbm (15 February 2021)

DabDab said:



			A horse in their care died in a slurry pit on their land, there's a certain amount of 'the facts speak for themselves'
		
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Slurry pit can still be viewed on Google Earth with inadequate fencing on two sides, access directly off a road,  and what looks like two holes in a hedge (that might also be fenced). No idea how old those particular Google earth scans are,  but it's pretty shocking to see how relatively unguarded from horses and  children  it was at that time and possibly still is.,


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## Mule (15 February 2021)

Wrong post


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## Renvers (15 February 2021)

I am surprised that people feel this is airing dirty laundry. I have thought the lady involved and most comments have been remarkably restrained. If this were a one off it would be a tragedy, as one of several legal cases and the fact that others have signed NDA's the Stud's actions should be open to scrutiny.

I was disappointed when I learned of this, I have always thought Anna Ross and Newton Stud were good and professional examples of equestrianism. This event, and their poor handling of it has made me think twice about using their services for my broodmare in the future. So I for one am grateful that it has been shared however painful it must be for the owner to have to keep talking about such a sad event and her obvious pain about the betrayal of former friends.


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## INDIA1999 (24 February 2021)

OUTRAGEOUS.  It seems that taking out an 8 page pull out in advertising buys you heavily biased reporting from H&H this month and zero fact checking.
1. The fire at Newton Stud was not an inferno. It was well attended by Devon & Somerset Fire Brigade who had it under control.  Their news report on it publicly available. It also says that animals had been turned out into the lane. Do your homework H&H. 2. The barn fire occurred in a barn where horses and hay were stored together!  3. The dressage horse was turned out into a field that HAS a lagoon WITHIN it as can clearly be seen on google earth. Do your homework H&H. 4. If she was seen to panic why did no member of staff do anything about it? 5. The gate was not simply unsecured. The gate was open. It had been left open by a member of staff and it was not checked to be open or closed by the member of staff placing Die Callas in the field.  6. The lagoon was not filled with slurry but it was filled with abattoir meat sludge, abattoir meat washings, abattoir poultry sludge, abattoir poultry washings, dairy processing sludge. Thousands of tons. 7. The "panicking" 
horse was not checked on for over 12 hours.


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## INDIA1999 (24 February 2021)

Roxylola said:



			I saw this on Facebook, bit disappointed that the BD page took it down and implied she was mud slinging and unjustified.
I felt she was quite reasonable in what she said. It's a terrible tragedy for her - slurry disposal is a huge danger; I remember when I first loaned a horse we rented stables on a dairy farm and the muck heap was a case of tipping your barrow off the top in to the slurry below, I was often up there alone and the thought of falling genuinely terrified me
		
Click to expand...

From what I've read it was not even a slurry lagoon but abattoir waste/meat/washings.


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## Tiddlypom (24 February 2021)

Is this the slurry pit?

From Google maps.




Closer view


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## Rubydooby (24 February 2021)

ester said:



			Ah yes now you mention it I did know re. the meat products.
It seems no one has gone fully to court with them but taken settlements and signed NDAs
		
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Unfortunately it is SO expensive to go to court if you are uninsured - over £100,000 so most people have no choice...


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## Rubydooby (24 February 2021)

Tiddlypom said:



			Is this the slurry pit?

From Google maps.

View attachment 66622


Closer view
View attachment 66623

Click to expand...

YES


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## ycbm (24 February 2021)

Rubydooby said:



			Unfortunately it is SO expensive to go to court if you are uninsured - over £100,000 so most people have no choice...
		
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Small claims court is really cheap and very easy and can be done online with no solicitor needed.


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## Frumpoon (24 February 2021)

ycbm said:



			Small claims court is really cheap and very easy and can be done online with no solicitor needed.
		
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But would a claim of the type to cover such a high value horse far exceed the small claims limit?


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## ycbm (24 February 2021)

Frumpoon said:



			But would a claim of the type to cover such a high value horse far exceed the small claims limit?
		
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Quite possibly but I was just trying to let people know that "small claims" of up to ten thousand pounds are cheap and easy. Lots of people don't think the law is available to them when it is.  And you can always take a claim for less than you feel you lost,  which at least gets you some compensation and establishes the point.
.


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## INDIA1999 (24 February 2021)

Frumpoon said:



			But would a claim of the type to cover such a high value horse far exceed the small claims limit?
		
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The small claims court limit is £10,000. I imagine this horse was worth considerably more than that. I think small claims is for straight forward stuff and I can only imagine that this was a complicated case too.  The lady concerned said on her FB page it was due to be a high court trial.


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## Nanniegeegee (24 February 2021)

I wish that I had known about the abattoir waste being spread on the fields before I sent my yearlings there.  They both died.


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## Rubydooby (24 February 2021)

Nanniegeegee said:



			I wish that I had known about the abattoir waste being spread on the fields before I sent my yearlings there.  They both died.
		
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OMG So so sorry - heartbreaking 😢


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## ester (24 February 2021)

C


INDIA1999 said:



			OUTRAGEOUS.  It seems that taking out an 8 page pull out in advertising buys you heavily biased reporting from H&H this month and zero fact checking.
1. The fire at Newton Stud was not an inferno. It was well attended by Devon & Somerset Fire Brigade who had it under control.  Their news report on it publicly available. It also says that animals had been turned out into the lane. Do your homework H&H. 2. The barn fire occurred in a barn where horses and hay were stored together!  3. The dressage horse was turned out into a field that HAS a lagoon WITHIN it as can clearly be seen on google earth. Do your homework H&H. 4. If she was seen to panic why did no member of staff do anything about it? 5. The gate was not simply unsecured. The gate was open. It had been left open by a member of staff and it was not checked to be open or closed by the member of staff placing Die Callas in the field.  6. The lagoon was not filled with slurry but it was filled with abattoir meat sludge, abattoir meat washings, abattoir poultry sludge, abattoir poultry washings, dairy processing sludge. Thousands of tons. 7. The "panicking"
horse was not checked on for over 12 hours.
		
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Could you clarify what this response is in relation to? A hh article?


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## holydaysandholidays (24 February 2021)

This looks like an inferno.. according to the fire report it burned for 3 days before it got under control... So sad.


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## teapot (24 February 2021)

Interesting since whenever TP took those screenshots - the Newton Stud marker has been removed from googlemaps.


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## Rowreach (24 February 2021)

ester said:



			C


Could you clarify what this response is in relation to? A hh article?
		
Click to expand...

It's on the H&H facebook page today and in the mag this week I think.


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## TPO (24 February 2021)

Nanniegeegee said:



			I wish that I had known about the abattoir waste being spread on the fields before I sent my yearlings there.  They both died.
		
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So sorry for your losses nanniegeegee


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## StretchyBetty (24 February 2021)

teapot said:



			Interesting since whenever TP took those screenshots - the Newton Stud marker has been removed from googlemaps.
		
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I’ve just looked at it’s still there


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## Renvers (24 February 2021)

Nanniegeegee said:



			I wish that I had known about the abattoir waste being spread on the fields before I sent my yearlings there.  They both died.
		
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So sorry for your loss.


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## Tiddlypom (24 February 2021)

teapot said:



			Interesting since whenever TP took those screenshots - the Newton Stud marker has been removed from googlemaps.
		
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Maybe it’s there on my screenshot because I put Newton Stud in the search bar?

The screenshot is from earlier this afternoon - the time/date stamp can be seen on it. Though I don’t know how old the Google maps aerial shot is, though, is there a way to tell?

ETA Had a quick whizz through current H&H, it is the sport horse breeding special, but I didn’t see anything about Newton Stud? Maybe I missed it.

ETA2. Missed it. It’s a glossy advert insert. This double pager plus quite a bit more.


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## Blackhathorse (24 February 2021)

God the fire looks awful, I've been at a barn fire and it was terrifying it goes up so fast


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## holydaysandholidays (24 February 2021)

Looking at all the previous posts it seems odd that the fire has never been mentioned - it seems like theres a lot to this that hasn't been included, its been terrible but theres been a real hate campaign for the stud. To not even mention that the horse was turned out in an emergency is a massive thing to leave out. Just awful for everyone, my heart goes out but I think theres more to it ...


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## INDIA1999 (24 February 2021)

Nanniegeegee said:



			I wish that I had known about the abattoir waste being spread on the fields before I sent my yearlings there.  They both died.
		
Click to expand...




holydaysandholidays said:



View attachment 66640
This looks like an inferno.. according to the fire report it burned for 3 days before it got under control... So sad. 
	View attachment 66640
View attachment 66641

Click to expand...




holydaysandholidays said:



View attachment 66640
This looks like an inferno.. according to the fire report it burned for 3 days before it got under control... So sad. 
	View attachment 66640
View attachment 66641

Click to expand...

Hello. Well done for finding those photographs. Did you see this one?


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## Keith_Beef (24 February 2021)

teapot said:



			Interesting since whenever TP took those screenshots - the Newton Stud marker has been removed from googlemaps.
		
Click to expand...

It now seems to be labelled as "Elite Stallions", but you can still find the location by searching for "Newton Stud, near okehampton", and the coordinates of the "slurry pit" are 50.824861551710804, 50.824820887711184, -3.8689894501242823.


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## holydaysandholidays (24 February 2021)




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## holydaysandholidays (24 February 2021)

Its just so tragic ... my heart goes out.


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## Lucasmarkas (24 February 2021)

That barn fire looks horrendous


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## INDIA1999 (24 February 2021)

Hello HolyDaysandHolidays. Welcome to the Forum.  The D&S report said that it was the centre of the triple roofed barn so the one below. So presumably the fire brigade took care of the FIRE and the stud took CARE of the HORSES?  No?


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## INDIA1999 (24 February 2021)

True. Thank goodness for the good work of Devon & Somerset Fire which should - presumably - have left the stud staff (and surely there must be a great many for hundreds of horses) to make sure all of those horses are safe?


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## fiveleafclover21 (24 February 2021)

That fire looks terrifying, how lucky that they got all the horses out before anyone was hurt. I experienced a fire like that on a previous yard and it's just unbelievable how fast it can go up - there's no time to grab anything except the horses. 

I've followed this on Facebook with sympathy for Jane, but am now a bit confused as there seems to be so much missing in her post compared to the H&H story. I've never seen Jane mention the fire, and now I know the circumstances it just seems like a tragic accident. From the pictures posted here, it does seem to be fenced off quite clearly from the rest of the land. 
I'm not sure what to believe now, I'm finding Jane's posts misleading from this serious omission of fact - if she's not telling us this, what else isn't mentioned? I'm quite sure there was a piece years ago in H&H about Die Callas being retired so I thought this was common knowledge. According to H&H she said she was going to come back to dressage, but I can't recall her being mentioned in any of the press coverage as a potential team horse? I followed it all pretty closely as I had a friend with a horse in contention.

It seems that like with most things, you just cannot believe everything you read on Facebook.


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## INDIA1999 (24 February 2021)

fiveleafclover21 said:



			That fire looks terrifying, how lucky that they got all the horses out before anyone was hurt. I experienced a fire like that on a previous yard and it's just unbelievable how fast it can go up - there's no time to grab anything except the horses.

I've followed this on Facebook with sympathy for Jane, but am now a bit confused as there seems to be so much missing in her post compared to the H&H story. I've never seen Jane mention the fire, and now I know the circumstances it just seems like a tragic accident. From the pictures posted here, it does seem to be fenced off quite clearly from the rest of the land.
I'm not sure what to believe now, I'm finding Jane's posts misleading from this serious omission of fact - if she's not telling us this, what else isn't mentioned? I'm quite sure there was a piece years ago in H&H about Die Callas being retired so I thought this was common knowledge. According to H&H she said she was going to come back to dressage, but I can't recall her being mentioned in any of the press coverage as a potential team horse? I followed it all pretty closely as I had a friend with a horse in contention.

It seems that like with most things, you just cannot believe everything you read on Facebook.
		
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It is certain


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## Blackhathorse (24 February 2021)

I'm a bit taken back too tbh. Why has the fire never been mentioned? This story has been running for ages and its been shared all over.... It's obviously a tragic terrible accident, fire and horses don't mix.. But why all the hate? I've just looked it up facebook -  its shocking...


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## sportsmansB (24 February 2021)

Funny how all these brand new users come on to debate this, isn't it?!


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## Steerpike (24 February 2021)

Lots of new users this evening.....


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## Blackhathorse (24 February 2021)

sportsmansB said:



			Funny how all these brand new users come on to debate this, isn't it?!
		
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I'm a new one - my attention was drawn via the facebook hate and its been the topic of discussion at my yard . I was shocked to discover the omissions as the fire has never been mentioned...


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## holydaysandholidays (24 February 2021)

I'm new, I've seen the facebook posts and feel so sorry for the owner. But I feel its been very deceptive not to mention the fire.. This wasn't a 'normal' situation, and the owner obviously wanted everyone to know her side but missed out something really vital to the story.


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## Sossigpoker (24 February 2021)

Well what has the fire got to do with anything? This horse isn't the only one to have died at this stud,  even on this thread a user is saying they have lost two yearlings there. Several people have come forward on Facebook to say their horses died there- this place seems to have an awful lot of deaths happening!
This and their awful attitude and behaviour following the death of Die Kallas tells me what I need to know about that place. The words barge and pole come to mind.


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## Sossigpoker (24 February 2021)

holydaysandholidays said:



			I'm new, I've seen the facebook posts and feel so sorry for the owner. But I feel its been very deceptive not to mention the fire.. This wasn't a 'normal' situation,
		
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They've had quite a few horses die there and I doubt they were all in one night due to the fire.


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## INDIA1999 (24 February 2021)

fiveleafclover21 said:



			That fire looks terrifying, how lucky that they got all the horses out before anyone was hurt. I experienced a fire like that on a previous yard and it's just unbelievable how fast it can go up - there's no time to grab anything except the horses.

I've followed this on Facebook with sympathy for Jane, but am now a bit confused as there seems to be so much missing in her post compared to the H&H story. I've never seen Jane mention the fire, and now I know the circumstances it just seems like a tragic accident. From the pictures posted here, it does seem to be fenced off quite clearly from the rest of the land.
I'm not sure what to believe now, I'm finding Jane's posts misleading from this serious omission of fact - if she's not telling us this, what else isn't mentioned? I'm quite sure there was a piece years ago in H&H about Die Callas being retired so I thought this was common knowledge. According to H&H she said she was going to come back to dressage, but I can't recall her being mentioned in any of the press coverage as a potential team horse? I followed it all pretty closely as I had a friend with a horse in contention.

It seems that like with most things, you just cannot believe everything you read on Facebook.
		
Click to expand...


There's a lot of fake information posted on Facebook for sure.  It is such a shame that people cannot be honest and deal only in the truth especially where horse welfare is concerned. 

I am not sure I can clear up your confusion but my understanding is that yes there was a fire however it was mid summer so presumably the vast majority of horses were in the Devon fields unless someone can correct me.  The horse concerned was not in the barn that was on fire so presumably it was a measured evacuation/walk to the field of the two horses mentioned unless someone can correct me.  The horses were turned out in a field with a lagoon within it unless someone can correct me.  The stud staff presumably were not responsible in any way for ANYTHING OTHER THAN ENSURING THAT THE HORSES IN THE YARD WERE REMOVED FROM THE YARD AND CONTINUED TO BE SAFE.  Perhaps someone reading this can tell me how many horses were evacuated, how many staff they had, how long it took to evacuate them.  It would be great to know none of the staff checked on the panicked horse again until the following morning.  You say you can see the lagoon being clearly fenced off - isn't the point that the GATE WAS LEFT WIDE OPEN CAUSING A HORSE TO DROWN IN ABBATTOIR WASTE?  I don't know the details of that but I suspect all that contributed to the stud being negligent and having to say that they were negligent because there isn't an Option B.  The only posts I have been able to find about Die Callas and her retirement were POST HER DEATH suggesting she died suddenly in the field. It was one post in H&H I found.  I rather think she will have struggled to stay afloat and died a TERRIFYING DEATH. I also found that Anna Ross Davies posted I think in spring of the same year that the horse was coming back to work/competition. I haven't looked recently but do dig that one out if you can. I do not know about the GB Team horse thing as I have seen it she was shortlisted for Rio (much self congratulations from Anna Ross Davies) and then injured. So she was off I presume and getting better - that's certainly what the post I saw from Anna RD suggested.


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## BlueSocksGirl1 (24 February 2021)

Hi i'm a new member and have joined the forum because this has been spoken alot about at my yard. This seems so deceiving to me, the fire has never been mentioned. I don't know what to believe on any of this thread now?!


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## crellow4 (24 February 2021)

Dozens and dozens of mares and foals have died at this "professional stud", many any more have been removed from their "care" with chronic, life threatening worm burdens - despite owners being charged for regular wormers.
Social media bullying campaigns have been launched by the stud and their sister companies. Threatening behaviour when owners speak out about the treatment of their much lived horses.
Whether there was a fire or not, the gate to a slurry/sludge lagoon must NEVER be left open - whether there are livestock in the adjacent field or not!


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## Sossigpoker (24 February 2021)

I just can't stop feeling horrified over what awful death that poor horse had. Struggling for god knows how long to stay afloat and to drown on the debris of dead animals....it's the stuff of nightmares.


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## Sossigpoker (24 February 2021)

crellow4 said:



			Dozens and dozens of mares and foals have died at this "professional stud", many any more have been removed from their "care" with chronic, life threatening worm burdens - despite owners being charged for regular wormers.
Social media bullying campaigns have been launched by the stud and their sister companies. Threatening behaviour when owners speak out about the treatment of their much lived horses.
Whether there was a fire or not, the gate to a slurry/sludge lagoon must NEVER be left open - whether there are livestock in the adjacent field or not!
		
Click to expand...

And sounds like the horses in the field weren't checked either.
My yard has field liveries,  some pregnant mares , some youngsters and some retired. They are checked as a minimum twice a day but usually it's more often and if there's any concern the yard owner will go over night and check if need be. The thought of horses not being checked after a fire is just disgusting.


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## holydaysandholidays (24 February 2021)

It seems very harsh to criticise the staff at the stud and blame them for not doing the emergency evacuation well enough. the photos of the fire are horrendous. They must have been terrified, surely they just ran back for the other horses in the barn


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## StretchyBetty (24 February 2021)

I’ve read todays article which led me to this forum. It seems to me that it was a tragic accident which can happen to anyone. I’ve looked at the FB posts and I now think a very one sided version of events has been told with massive omission of details skewing the views of the followers. For me the really shocking part of this story is some of the hateful comments on social media. Who on earth thinks that it’s ok to suggest that the stud owner should hang herself, what on earth has happened to the equestrian ‘community’?


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## fiveleafclover21 (24 February 2021)

You seem very well-informed about some parts of this story but then very confused about other bits. Were you involved in some way? Or is this just information gleaned from Facebook? I'm just not sure who to believe.

I highly doubt the mare was not checked again for hours (perhaps someone who was there would know) but I assume she wasn't in a panic when they left her. It sounds like the gate was left open totally by accident (presumably in the stress of a fire?).

I'm sure I can find the bit about her retirement, I'll see if I can find it.


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## INDIA1999 (24 February 2021)

Sossigpoker said:



			They've had quite a few horses die there and I doubt they were all in one night due to the fire.
		
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I am still struggling to understand what the fire has got to do with it unless stud staff were engaged fighting the fire and there's photos posted by me and others of firefighters. So stud staff surely making sure horses are OK.  And how many horses would be inside and how does it have anything to do with turning them out in a field with access to a slurry pit?


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## BlueSocksGirl1 (24 February 2021)

I don't understand this? You can clearly see the fence between the slurry pit and the horse if you zoom in to photo?


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## ycbm (24 February 2021)

Anyone in their right minds with youngsters on the fields would have a slurry pit double fenced with strong and high fencing on all four sides.

I think the fire is largely irrelevant to why a horse died by drowning in abattoir waste.  Horses can panic any time.,
.


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## Blackhathorse (24 February 2021)

INDIA1999 said:



			I am still struggling to understand what the fire has got to do with it unless stud staff were engaged fighting the fire and there's photos posted by me and others of firefighters. So stud staff surely making sure horses are OK.  And how many horses would be inside and how does it have anything to do with turning them out in a field with access to a slurry pit?
		
Click to expand...

I'm horrified by these comments, It sounds awful and you are criticising their actions in a huge fire.


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## fiveleafclover21 (24 February 2021)

crellow4 said:



			Dozens and dozens of mares and foals have died at this "professional stud", many any more have been removed from their "care" with chronic, life threatening worm burdens - despite owners being charged for regular wormers.
Social media bullying campaigns have been launched by the stud and their sister companies. Threatening behaviour when owners speak out about the treatment of their much lived horses.
Whether there was a fire or not, the gate to a slurry/sludge lagoon must NEVER be left open - whether there are livestock in the adjacent field or not!
		
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Crellow4 - I have seen the odd complaint, but from what I can see they have several hundred horses so it seems normal that some would be ill/injured. I once read that 5% of all foalings go wrong! I certainly haven't seen any mention of "dozens and dozens" - can you elaborate? I have to say the only bullying I've seen has been towards the stud and some of it has been really vile - regardless of who's to blame many people seem to have forgotten #BeKind. In this instance I think unless you have a direct experience of the place, there's probably no need to get involved. I have been shocked at some of the comments and those people have definitely become people I would avoid dealing with - so unprofessional to get involved in mud-slinging!

In reply to other posters - I think the fire is definitely relevant. Presumably the poor staff were in such a rush to evacuate the horses that the gate wasn't checked (on Google maps it looks a long way from the other gate). That field looks to be near to the barns so I'd imagine she was one of the first to be rescued? Unless you've been in a fire like that (I have) you just can't imagine the stress and pressure that is on you to save as many as you can. It may have been summer, but that's peak foaling season so I guess there were probably quite a few horses in? I can't even imagine the difficulty of trying to evacuate mares with foals at foot!


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## ycbm (24 February 2021)

fiveleafclover21 said:



			In reply to other posters - I think the fire is definitely relevant. Presumably the poor staff were in such a rush to evacuate the horses that the gate wasn't checked (
		
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What possible excuse would there be for a gate leading to a toxic slurry pit to be left without a chain and padlock on it,  never mind open?

What if  children had thought it would be fun to play there and fell in?


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## fiveleafclover21 (24 February 2021)

I was under the impression it was a gate within a field, rather than from a road?

It doesn't bear thinking about, but from what I read in the H&H story, the stud admitted liability straight away and the argument was only about the value of a (likely retired) horse? Although an absolutely horrible accident, I don't think the case was actually anything to do with it - it was all about working out the amount owed to the owner?



ycbm said:



			What possible excuse would there be for a gate off a road leading to a toxic slurry pit to be left without a chain and padlock on it,  never mind open?

What if  children had thought it would be fun to play there and fell in?
		
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## Red-1 (24 February 2021)

I think the fire happening at the same time is relevant. It was a bad omission from the FB story. Kind of takes some credibility from the rest.

I do, however, agree that a slurry pit should be better fenced anyway. And the gate shut/locked, just to prevent form accident in normal times.

There does also seem to be a lot of instances where horses have not had the best of care. But then, who knows the other side of the story there either?


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## teapot (24 February 2021)

Tiddlypom said:



			Maybe it’s there on my screenshot because I put Newton Stud in the search bar?

The screenshot is from earlier this afternoon - the time/date stamp can be seen on it. Though I don’t know how old the Google maps aerial shot is, though, is there a way to tell?
		
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Just tried again and I get a massive red circle and a question mark (it's in the area) but even so


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## Blackhathorse (24 February 2021)

fiveleafclover21 said:



			I was under the impression it was a gate within a field, rather than from a road?

It doesn't bear thinking about, but from what I read in the H&H story, the stud admitted liability straight away and the argument was only about the value of a (likely retired) horse? Although an absolutely horrible accident, I don't think the case was actually anything to do with it - it was all about working out the amount owed to the owner?
		
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 It is so sad when it becomes all about money...


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## INDIA1999 (24 February 2021)

holydaysandholidays said:



			I'm new, I've seen the facebook posts and feel so sorry for the owner. But I feel its been very deceptive not to mention the fire.. This wasn't a 'normal' situation, and the owner obviously wanted everyone to know her side but missed out something really vital to the story.
		
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What's vital About it?


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## Gingerwitch (24 February 2021)

Nanniegeegee said:



			I wish that I had known about the abattoir waste being spread on the fields before I sent my yearlings there.  They both died.
		
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Omg, I am so sorry, the amount of posts on here that say send to youngstock livery..... I feel so sorry for you.


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## INDIA1999 (24 February 2021)

Blackhathorse said:



			It is so sad when it becomes all about money...
		
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Wow you are well informed.


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## INDIA1999 (24 February 2021)

sportsmansB said:



			Funny how all these brand new users come on to debate this, isn't it?!
		
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all seeming to focus on a fire.


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## ycbm (24 February 2021)

Blackhathorse said:



			It is so sad when it becomes all about money...
		
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Who made it all about money?   A livery owner charging for the livery of a dead horse?
.


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## Gingerwitch (24 February 2021)

Tiddlypom said:



			Maybe it’s there on my screenshot because I put Newton Stud in the search bar?

The screenshot is from earlier this afternoon - the time/date stamp can be seen on it. Though I don’t know how old the Google maps aerial shot is, though, is there a way to tell?

ETA Had a quick whizz through current H&H, it is the sport horse breeding special, but I didn’t see anything about Newton Stud? Maybe I missed it.

ETA2. Missed it. It’s a glossy advert insert. This double pager plus quite a bit more.


View attachment 66647

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I wonder how many brown envelopes crossed palms to get that glowing right up?


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## INDIA1999 (24 February 2021)

holydaysandholidays said:



			It seems very harsh to criticise the staff at the stud and blame them for not doing the emergency evacuation well enough. the photos of the fire are horrendous. They must have been terrified, surely they just ran back for the other horses in the barn
		
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I wonder how many horses were in the barn or barns.  I wonder why they could not go and check on the welfare of those horses especially the panicking, top 100 one an hour or two later?


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## INDIA1999 (24 February 2021)

BlueSocksGirl1 said:



			Hi i'm a new member and have joined the forum because this has been spoken alot about at my yard. This seems so deceiving to me, the fire has never been mentioned. I don't know what to believe on any of this thread now?!
		
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How is the fire relevant? So they had to move some horses who weren't in fields in summer to field. Even if you excuse FAIL 1. that the gates to the slurry pit had been left open and even if you excuse FAIL 2 that they turned a panicking horse out into the field where FAIL 1 existed. How do you excuse FAIL 3 not checking on the panicking horse again?  Where's the deception in expecting some level of care and if the stud doesn't have a fire strategy what happens in the WINTER when they must have hundreds more horses inside?  Surely?  What do you think?


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## StretchyBetty (24 February 2021)

INDIA1999 said:



			How is the fire relevant? So they had to move some horses who weren't in fields in summer to field. Even if you excuse FAIL 1. that the gates to the slurry pit had been left open and even if you excuse FAIL 2 that they turned a panicking horse out into the field where FAIL 1 existed. How do you excuse FAIL 3 not checking on the panicking horse again?  Where's the deception in expecting some level of care and if the stud doesn't have a fire strategy what happens in the WINTER when they must have hundreds more horses inside?  Surely?  What do you think?
		
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How do you actually know if those things did or did not happen? Why are you so unwilling to accept this could simply an accident. I’m quite sure no one would ever wish for this to happen


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## ycbm (24 February 2021)

StretchyBetty said:



			How do you actually know if those things did or did not happen? Why are you so unwilling to accept this could simply an accident. I’m quite sure no one would ever wish for this to happen
		
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It isn't acceptable to have a horse accidentally fall into a slurry pit! 

I would want to see evidence of two broken 4-5ft strong timber fences  or gates before I would accept that this was an unavoidable accident.


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## Tiddlypom (24 February 2021)

StretchyBetty said:



			Why are you so unwilling to accept this could simply an accident.
		
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The slurry pit should have been so well fenced off and secured at all times  that no horse, dog, child should ever have been able to access it.


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## fiveleafclover21 (24 February 2021)

India999, you seem very involved with this and your accusations and claims vary wildly. Your posts are really becoming quite aggressive which I fear might hinder people from believing or paying attention to your rants. Are you involved in some way? Your posts seem to be a mish-mash of information gleaned from Google and Facebook mostly. And please, do try to use punctuation as it's becoming really difficult to follow what you're trying to say.

I didn't get the impression that the mare was panicking at the time she was turned out, I understood from the H&H article that it happened later?

It doesn't seem to me that the stud have claimed it was unavoidable - it says they admitted liability straight away. I'm not sure what is to be gained at this stage? The owner has been compensated (and again, it wasn't about proving guilt - the article says the case was about deciding on the value) and I'm sure it won't happen again. What more are people hoping to achieve here?


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## be positive (24 February 2021)

StretchyBetty said:



			How do you actually know if those things did or did not happen? Why are you so unwilling to accept this could simply an accident. I’m quite sure no one would ever wish for this to happen
		
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It was an accident but one that was avoidable if the gate had been securely closed, the fire is not really relevant as a horse could have accessed the field with the slurry pit for numerous reasons possibly going through or over the fencing at any time,  like many others I cannot see how the yard can have such a potentially dangerous hazard anywhere near the horses, even a pond would be best fenced off for safety reasons.


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## laura_nash (24 February 2021)

holydaysandholidays said:



			It seems very harsh to criticise the staff at the stud and blame them for not doing the emergency evacuation well enough. the photos of the fire are horrendous. They must have been terrified, surely they just ran back for the other horses in the barn
		
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I am not blaming the staff for not doing the evacuation well.  I've no idea about that as no facts on that by those involved have been posted AFAIK.

I am blaming the stud for having a poorly fenced slurry pit (it should be min 1.8m unclimbable fencing or solid wall, from those Google Earth pics it's nothing like that) and leaving it's gate open.  You don't do the latter, ever.  There's no excuse for it.  It should always be safely locked.  I suspect this was an accident waiting to happen.

Also, asking for the livery fee was just heartless.


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## Tiddlypom (24 February 2021)

fiveleafclover21 said:



			I didn't get the impression that the mare was panicking at the time she was turned out, I understood from the H&H article that it happened later?
		
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https://www.horseandhound.co.uk/plu...mare-who-died-in-slurry-lagoon-hh-plus-738335

_It was an emergency evacuation,” she_ (Lorna Wilson, of Newton Stud) _said. “It was an inferno and we had to get the horses out as quickly and safely as we could. The field into which Die Callas and one other mare were evacuated, to try to keep them safe, lay next to another field in which a slurry pit was located, separated by a fence and a gate.

*“In her panic, *Die Callas went through the gate and continued into the slurry pit where she tragically died. Despite the challenging circumstances of the emergency that led to the incident, Newton Stud immediately admitted liability for this accident and provided insurance details without hesitation.”_


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## fiveleafclover21 (24 February 2021)

Tiddlypom said:



https://www.horseandhound.co.uk/plu...mare-who-died-in-slurry-lagoon-hh-plus-738335

_It was an emergency evacuation,” she_ (Lorna Wilson, of Newton Stud) _said. “It was an inferno and we had to get the horses out as quickly and safely as we could. The field into which Die Callas and one other mare were evacuated, to try to keep them safe, lay next to another field in which a slurry pit was located, separated by a fence and a gate._

_*“In her panic, *Die Callas went through the gate and continued into the slurry pit where she tragically died. Despite the challenging circumstances of the emergency that led to the incident, Newton Stud immediately admitted liability for this accident and provided insurance details without hesitation.”_

Click to expand...

Yes, I've read that, but it didn't seem to me that this meant that she was panicking at the time - I'm sure no one would have stood there and watched her gallop through the gate without doing anything?


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## laura_nash (24 February 2021)

fiveleafclover21 said:



			It doesn't seem to me that the stud have claimed it was unavoidable - it says they admitted liability straight away. I'm not sure what is to be gained at this stage? The owner has been compensated (and again, it wasn't about proving guilt - the article says the case was about deciding on the value) and I'm sure it won't happen again. What more are people hoping to achieve here?
		
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I suspect for us "usual HHO'ers", as opposed to all the new posters who may have other agendas, we are wanting to make sure that anyone who is thinking of sending their horse to this stud is aware of the details of the incident and can take it into account when making their decision.  Because it's not just an unfortunate accident it is negligence, as the stud admitted.

Also that anyone stabling on a yard or farm with a slurry pit is aware of the risk and if it's fencing isn't up to scratch, or it isn't always securely padlocked, they can get it sorted or leave.


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## Rowreach (24 February 2021)

laura_nash said:



			I suspect for us "usual HHO'ers", as opposed to all the new posters who may have other agendas, we are wanting to make sure that anyone who is thinking of sending their horse to this stud is aware of the details of the incident and can take it into account when making their decision.  Because it's not just an unfortunate accident it is negligence, as the stud admitted.

Also that anyone stabling on a yard or farm with a slurry pit is aware of the risk and if it's fencing isn't up to scratch, or it isn't always securely padlocked, they can get it sorted or leave.
		
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That, and the R.equi.


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## INDIA1999 (24 February 2021)

fiveleafclover21 said:



			India999, you seem very involved with this and your accusations and claims vary wildly. Your posts are really becoming quite aggressive which I fear might hinder people from believing or paying attention to your rants. Are you involved in some way? Your posts seem to be a mish-mash of information gleaned from Google and Facebook mostly. And please, do try to use punctuation as it's becoming really difficult to follow what you're trying to say.

I didn't get the impression that the mare was panicking at the time she was turned out, I understood from the H&H article that it happened later?

It doesn't seem to me that the stud have claimed it was unavoidable - it says they admitted liability straight away. I'm not sure what is to be gained at this stage? The owner has been compensated (and again, it wasn't about proving guilt - the article says the case was about deciding on the value) and I'm sure it won't happen again. What more are people hoping to achieve here?
		
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There is nothing aggressive about my comments.  Please clarify what I have said that varies in accuracy.   What is the mish-mash to which you refer.  Re: Panicking. So if the mare was not panicking when turned out are you saying that she was seen panicking later?  In either scenario, as you will appreciate, if viewed by stud staff there was a failure and negligence in care.  Re: liability. I agree the stud must be liable and there is no other option if you are caring for someone's horse and you allow it to drown in a slurry pit. The article and some of the posts above from new joiners suggest that it was in some way excusable because there was a barn fire (being taken care of by all accounts by the fire service) leaving stud staff to ensure that all horses were safe and well. It is a shame that the stud can't act with dignity and honour. Furthermore this does not seem to be an isolated case it seems that other horses have died there or lots of owners have been unhappy or badly treated by the owners.


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## Blackhathorse (24 February 2021)

INDIA1999 said:



			all seeming to focus on a fire.
		
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I think thats because it was a huge ommision in the owners campaign and never mentioned in all these months. I'm shocked at the deception and the one sidedness and its made me doubt the credibility of all the other stuff. Why wasn't it mentioned? Does anyone know?


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## fiveleafclover21 (24 February 2021)

laura_nash said:



			I suspect for us "usual HHO'ers", as opposed to all the new posters who may have other agendas, we are wanting to make sure that anyone who is thinking of sending their horse to this stud is aware of the details of the incident and can take it into account when making their decision.  Because it's not just an unfortunate accident it is negligence, as the stud admitted.

Also that anyone stabling on a yard or farm with a slurry pit is aware of the risk and if it's fencing isn't up to scratch, or it isn't always securely padlocked, they can get it sorted or leave.
		
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I can absolutely see that, which is why I said that people perhaps should stop if they haven't had a direct experience - it seems that almost no one on this thread has. Some of the comments on Facebook have been absolutely vile and completely unacceptable, regardless of what's happened. I don't think you'll get the "details" here - there's so much he-said, she-said. Always best to go and visit somewhere if you're thinking of sending a horse there!

PS. I'm a "usual" too (been around since 2018) but usually post under a different name - just didn't want to get sucked into all the vitriol with my usual name. I have seen a lot of newbies today (on both sides) but honestly that doesn't surprise me at all and seems to happen a lot here with things like this.


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## Blackhathorse (24 February 2021)

INDIA1999 said:



			There is nothing aggressive about my comments.  Please clarify what I have said that varies in accuracy.   What is the mish-mash to which you refer.  Re: Panicking. So if the mare was not panicking when turned out are you saying that she was seen panicking later?  In either scenario, as you will appreciate, if viewed by stud staff there was a failure and negligence in care.  Re: liability. I agree the stud must be liable and there is no other option if you are caring for someone's horse and you allow it to drown in a slurry pit. The article and some of the posts above from new joiners suggest that it was in some way excusable because there was a barn fire (being taken care of by all accounts by the fire service) leaving stud staff to ensure that all horses were safe and well. It is a shame that the stud can't act with dignity and honour. Furthermore this does not seem to be an isolated case it seems that other horses have died there or lots of owners have been unhappy or badly treated by the owners.
		
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But it was a huge fire and a terrible emergency and theres definitely been some misleading information. The stud didn't just allow this beautiful horse to drown.. it was let out in an emergency due to a massive fire. Have you ever been in a fire with horses? your comments are incredibly aggressive with no compassion for the stud staff who must have been terrified.


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## fiveleafclover21 (24 February 2021)

INDIA1999 said:



			There is nothing aggressive about my comments.  Please clarify what I have said that varies in accuracy.   What is the mish-mash to which you refer.  Re: Panicking. So if the mare was not panicking when turned out are you saying that she was seen panicking later?  In either scenario, as you will appreciate, if viewed by stud staff there was a failure and negligence in care.  Re: liability. I agree the stud must be liable and there is no other option if you are caring for someone's horse and you allow it to drown in a slurry pit. The article and some of the posts above from new joiners suggest that it was in some way excusable because there was a barn fire (being taken care of by all accounts by the fire service) leaving stud staff to ensure that all horses were safe and well. It is a shame that the stud can't act with dignity and honour. Furthermore this does not seem to be an isolated case it seems that other horses have died there or lots of owners have been unhappy or badly treated by the owners.
		
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All of the capital letters make it seem very aggressive and personal. The mish-mash I refer to is obvious - one minute you know all about the fire, and the next you're throwing questions out there etc. 
I think it's odd to act as though the stud staff would not have been affected by the fire at all, they were clearly under pressure to get horses evacuated. I have been in a similar situation and you don't just wave at the fire service and then carry on with your mucking out. And from the pictures, the fire was late in the evening so I doubt there were all that many staff there? Absolutely nowhere does it say she was "seen panicking" either, I'm sure if she was then something would have been done. The stud admitted liability and a settlement was reached - what more do you hope to establish by posing all these repetitive and non-sensical questions?

Dignity and honour seems a bit ironic given some of the comments on this thread! I've seen nothing from the stud about this at all.


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## holydaysandholidays (24 February 2021)

INDIA1999 said:



			There is nothing aggressive about my comments.  Please clarify what I have said that varies in accuracy.   What is the mish-mash to which you refer.  Re: Panicking. So if the mare was not panicking when turned out are you saying that she was seen panicking later?  In either scenario, as you will appreciate, if viewed by stud staff there was a failure and negligence in care.  Re: liability. I agree the stud must be liable and there is no other option if you are caring for someone's horse and you allow it to drown in a slurry pit. The article and some of the posts above from new joiners suggest that it was in some way excusable because there was a barn fire (being taken care of by all accounts by the fire service) leaving stud staff to ensure that all horses were safe and well. It is a shame that the stud can't act with dignity and honour. Furthermore this does not seem to be an isolated case it seems that other horses have died there or lots of owners have been unhappy or badly treated by the owners.
		
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It seems that the horses owner has been relentlessly pursuing the stud over facebook in a really awful way - which is neither dingnified nor honourable To mislead her sympathetic audience in this way has not gone down well .. I've followed it on facebook and didn't like the 'trolling' tone from the start. This has confirmed my unease about this, The rest is pure speculation, we don't know the other side and it seems the stud has been much more professional in not responding to the awful and uninformed comments that have been made by people who weren't there. Sadly this appears to be all about money, the stud accepted liability from the start even under the horrific circumstances of the fire. What happened to #bekind


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## ycbm (24 February 2021)

holydaysandholidays said:



			It seems that the horses owner has been relentlessly pursuing the stud over facebook in a really awful way ....... Sadly this appears to be all about money, the stud accepted liability from the start even under the horrific circumstances of the fire. What happened to #bekind
		
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#bekind

#bekind?

What was kind about sending bailiffs in to recover a livery debt on a horse that died in a horrific way because of your negligence?
.


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## Gingerwitch (24 February 2021)

fiveleafclover21 said:



			I can absolutely see that, which is why I said that people perhaps should stop if they haven't had a direct experience - it seems that almost no one on this thread has. Some of the comments on Facebook have been absolutely vile and completely unacceptable, regardless of what's happened. I don't think you'll get the "details" here - there's so much he-said, she-said. Always best to go and visit somewhere if you're thinking of sending a horse there!

PS. I'm a "usual" too (been around since 2018) but usually post under a different name - just didn't want to get sucked into all the vitriol with my usual name. I have seen a lot of newbies today (on both sides) but honestly that doesn't surprise me at all and seems to happen a lot here with things like this.
		
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Not being prepared to post under your usual name sends alarm bells running with me. So you dont have the courage to say and be recognised as a "unidentifiable person" in real life  but dont was t your normal poster name associated with your posts about this and you have admitted to at least two user names... so how many do you really have ?


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## INDIA1999 (24 February 2021)

holydaysandholidays said:



			It seems that the horses owner has been relentlessly pursuing the stud over facebook in a really awful way - which is neither dingnified nor honourable To mislead her sympathetic audience in this way has not gone down well .. I've followed it on facebook and didn't like the 'trolling' tone from the start. This has confirmed my unease about this, The rest is pure speculation, we don't know the other side and it seems the stud has been much more professional in not responding to the awful and uninformed comments that have been made by people who weren't there. Sadly this appears to be all about money, the stud accepted liability from the start even under the horrific circumstances of the fire. What happened to #bekind
		
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I think if you read the owner's post on the subject a couple of week's ago it seemed that Newton Stud had gone after her for unpaid fees.  I don't see the 'trolling' that you see. I see some information being posted that perhaps owners would not be otherwise aware of.  For example, the abattoir waste thing.  Are all owners advised of this do you think?  Or is it is concealed from them by Newton Stud?


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## crellow4 (24 February 2021)

fiveleafclover21 said:



			Crellow4 - I have seen the odd complaint, but from what I can see they have several hundred horses so it seems normal that some would be ill/injured. I once read that 5% of all foalings go wrong! I certainly haven't seen any mention of "dozens and dozens" - can you elaborate? I have to say the only bullying I've seen has been towards the stud and some of it has been really vile - regardless of who's to blame many people seem to have forgotten #BeKind. In this instance I think unless you have a direct experience of the place, there's probably no need to get involved. I have been shocked at some of the comments and those people have definitely become people I would avoid dealing with - so unprofessional to get involved in mud-slinging!

In reply to other posters - I think the fire is definitely relevant. Presumably the poor staff were in such a rush to evacuate the horses that the gate wasn't checked (on Google maps it looks a long way from the other gate). That field looks to be near to the barns so I'd imagine she was one of the first to be rescued? Unless you've been in a fire like that (I have) you just can't imagine the stress and pressure that is on you to save as many as you can. It may have been summer, but that's peak foaling season so I guess there were probably quite a few horses in? I can't even imagine the difficulty of trying to evacuate mares with foals at foot!
		
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If you've only seen the odd complaint you're not looking hard enough - mind you, Newton Stud have a very effective policy of paying off complaints and insisting a NDA is signed! Why would they do this if they had nothing to hide?


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## Gingerwitch (24 February 2021)

Blackhathorse said:



			But it was a huge fire and a terrible emergency and theres definitely been some misleading information. The stud didn't just allow this beautiful horse to drown.. it was let out in an emergency due to a massive fire. Have you ever been in a fire with horses? your comments are incredibly aggressive with no compassion for the stud staff who must have been terrified.
		
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What for 12 hours ? If the not checked allegations are true.bi would have thought the members of staff would have bee  super vigilante all sorts of horses out in all sorts of places with noise ans smells of the fire..   so where did all the staff go ?


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## Rubydooby (24 February 2021)

TPO said:



			So sorry for your losses nanniegeegee
		
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How incredibly appalling I am so so sorry ... how could this be possible?


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## Gingerwitch (24 February 2021)

holydaysandholidays said:



			It seems that the horses owner has been relentlessly pursuing the stud over facebook in a really awful way - which is neither dingnified nor honourable To mislead her sympathetic audience in this way has not gone down well .. I've followed it on facebook and didn't like the 'trolling' tone from the start. This has confirmed my unease about this, The rest is pure speculation, we don't know the other side and it seems the stud has been much more professional in not responding to the awful and uninformed comments that have been made by people who weren't there. Sadly this appears to be all about money, the stud accepted liability from the start even under the horrific circumstances of the fire. What happened to #bekind
		
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Very professional if even half the accusations are true about the work burdens and the infectious r disease.


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## INDIA1999 (24 February 2021)

crellow4 said:



			If you've only seen the odd complaint you're not looking hard enough - mind you, Newton Stud have a very effective policy of paying off complaints and insisting a NDA is signed! Why would they do this if they had nothing to hide?
		
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Blackhathorse said:



			I think thats because it was a huge ommision in the owners campaign and never mentioned in all these months. I'm shocked at the deception and the one sidedness and its made me doubt the credibility of all the other stuff. Why wasn't it mentioned? Does anyone know?
		
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What other stuff? The mention of abattoir meat spreading or the owners with horses who have died/been unwell/not adequately cared for?


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## Arzada (24 February 2021)

laura_nash said:



			I suspect for us "usual HHO'ers", as opposed to all the new posters who may have other agendas, we are wanting to make sure that anyone who is thinking of sending their horse to this stud is aware of the details of the incident and can take it into account when making their decision.  Because it's not just an unfortunate accident it is negligence, as the stud admitted.

Also that anyone stabling on a yard or farm with a slurry pit is aware of the risk and if it's fencing isn't up to scratch, or it isn't always securely padlocked, they can get it sorted or leave.
		
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Yes all of this plus spreading abattoir waste on the fields. Which isn't an accident. I never knew such a thing happened. Totally disgusting and unacceptable.


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## INDIA1999 (24 February 2021)

fiveleafclover21 said:



			I can absolutely see that, which is why I said that people perhaps should stop if they haven't had a direct experience - it seems that almost no one on this thread has. Some of the comments on Facebook have been absolutely vile and completely unacceptable, regardless of what's happened. I don't think you'll get the "details" here - there's so much he-said, she-said. Always best to go and visit somewhere if you're thinking of sending a horse there!

PS. I'm a "usual" too (been around since 2018) but usually post under a different name - just didn't want to get sucked into all the vitriol with my usual name. I have seen a lot of newbies today (on both sides) but honestly that doesn't surprise me at all and seems to happen a lot here with things like this.
		
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If you have even around since 2018 why have you created at profile for today for this topic?
If you are suggesting that people without direct experience do not comment. What is YOUR direct experience since you seem to think it relevant enough to create a profile and post?  Intersted


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## INDIA1999 (24 February 2021)

ycbm said:



			#bekind

#bekind?

What was kind about sending bailiffs in to recover a livery debt on a horse that died in a horrific way because of your negligence?
.
		
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Excellent point.


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## Lillian_paddington (24 February 2021)

Interesting that blackhathorse and stretchybetty made accounts within minutes of one another and have been posting on the same threads all day.... or perhaps I’m overly suspicious 🤷‍♀️


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## INDIA1999 (24 February 2021)

holydaysandholidays said:



			It seems that the horses owner has been relentlessly pursuing the stud over facebook in a really awful way - which is neither dingnified nor honourable To mislead her sympathetic audience in this way has not gone down well .. I've followed it on facebook and didn't like the 'trolling' tone from the start. This has confirmed my unease about this, The rest is pure speculation, we don't know the other side and it seems the stud has been much more professional in not responding to the awful and uninformed comments that have been made by people who weren't there. Sadly this appears to be all about money, the stud accepted liability from the start even under the horrific circumstances of the fire. What happened to #bekind
		
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Lillian_paddington said:



			Interesting that blackhathorse and stretchybetty made accounts within minutes of one another and have been posting on the same threads all day.... or perhaps I’m overly suspicious 🤷‍♀️
		
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Suspect it is the Stud or staff.


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## Gingerwitch (24 February 2021)

INDIA1999 said:



			Suspect it is the Stud or staff.
		
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Is that singular on the staff ?


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## OldNag (24 February 2021)

Lillian_paddington said:



			Interesting that blackhathorse and stretchybetty made accounts within minutes of one another and have been posting on the same threads all day.... or perhaps I’m overly suspicious 🤷‍♀️
		
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This calls for HHO CSI...


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## SadKen (24 February 2021)

holydaysandholidays said:



			It seems that the horses owner has been relentlessly pursuing the stud over facebook in a really awful way - which is neither dingnified nor honourable To mislead her sympathetic audience in this way has not gone down well .. I've followed it on facebook and didn't like the 'trolling' tone from the start. This has confirmed my unease about this, The rest is pure speculation, we don't know the other side and it seems the stud has been much more professional in not responding to the awful and uninformed comments that have been made by people who weren't there. Sadly this appears to be all about money, the stud accepted liability from the start even under the horrific circumstances of the fire. What happened to #bekind
		
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B*llocks. 

If that was my horse I would have 'relentlessly pursued the stud' and so would anyone with integrity who loved their horse. Your post is ridiculous nonsense. If your aim is to defend the stud, congrats, you're making things much worse for them.


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## Fandabbydozy (24 February 2021)

INDIA1999 said:



			Suspect it is the Stud or staff.
		
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SadKen said:



			B*llocks.

If that was my horse I would have 'relentlessly pursued the stud' and so would anyone with integrity who loved their horse. Your post is ridiculous nonsense. If your aim is to defend the stud, congrats, you're making things much worse for them.
		
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Blackhathorse said:



			But it was a huge fire and a terrible emergency and theres definitely been some misleading information. The stud didn't just allow this beautiful horse to drown.. it was let out in an emergency due to a massive fire. Have you ever been in a fire with horses? your comments are incredibly aggressive with no compassion for the stud staff who must have been terrified.[/QUOTE
There were horses either side of a huge stack of hay bales in the same building...the hay caught fire, presumably spontaneous combustion which anyone with half a brain knows is a strong possibility. To have horses in such close proximity is foolhardy at best, incompetent & negligent at worst. And to turn horses out without checking the environment is safe is just as stupid.
		
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## ester (24 February 2021)

Some of these posts are very difficult to understand.


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## The Fuzzy Furry (24 February 2021)

ester said:



			Some of these posts are very difficult to understand.
		
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Indeed.

Message to all those who have joined today to post on this thread, could you possibly be a little more clear, use paragraphs and learn to use the quote function in the right way?

Thanks..... do carry on....


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## Frumpoon (24 February 2021)

Blackhathorse said:



			I'm a new one - my attention was drawn via the facebook hate and its been the topic of discussion at my yard . I was shocked to discover the omissions as the fire has never been mentioned...
		
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What hate?


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## shortstuff99 (24 February 2021)

Not sure Elite stallions were very nice when they mocked a customer who had a problem with their semen service. Relentlessly.


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## ester (24 February 2021)

The Fuzzy Furry said:



			Indeed.

Message to all those who have joined today to post on this thread, could you possibly be a little more clear, use paragraphs and learn to use the quote function in the right way?

Thanks..... do carry on....
		
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And maybe include whose side you are on  as it really isn't clear from some, though they seem angry enough to be on a side. .


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## INDIA1999 (24 February 2021)

shortstuff99 said:



			Not sure Elite stallions were very nice when they mocked a customer who had a problem with their semen service. Relentlessly.
		
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Oh gosh I remember that. Didn't they create an on line competition to name her foal or similar but called it Something Dead?  It was all over Facebook.


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## The Fuzzy Furry (24 February 2021)

ester said:



			And maybe include whose side you are on  as it really isn't clear from some, though they seem angry enough to be on a side. .
		
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Agreed. Some are tippy toeing about with thinly veiled words, but are clearly laying out their allegiance 🤔


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## JaneSewell (24 February 2021)

teapot said:



			The same Die Callas that at the time was reported to have died unexpectedly in the field?

Also, why's a stud yard got an open pit, regardless of content? H&S nightmare.
		
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YES - the same Die Callas! and absolutely why an open pit ... operated commercially


Pinkvboots said:



			Oh  no I was really hoping it wasn't that how awful I would be devastated poor horse poor woman
		
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Thank you ... it has been devastating ... but I hope we can find justice for all the others...!


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## The Fuzzy Furry (24 February 2021)

OldNag said:



			This calls for HHO CSI...
		
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Well, got any answers yet, or is your head still in a bucket?  😉


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## INDIA1999 (24 February 2021)

The Fuzzy Furry said:



			Well, got any answers yet, or is your head still in a bucket?  😉
		
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What is HHO CSI?


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## ester (24 February 2021)

I have hho csi badges come up as facebook memories 🤣

(hho csi is what it says on the tin).


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## The Fuzzy Furry (24 February 2021)

INDIA1999 said:



			What is HHO CSI?
		
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Special branch


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## sport horse (24 February 2021)

INDIA1999 said:



			Oh gosh I remember that. Didn't they create an on line competition to name her foal or similar but called it Something Dead?  It was all over Facebook.
		
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Yes they did. The lady purchased semen and when her vet examined it she was told it was mostly dead. She, quite correctly, reported this to Elite Stallions who were very dismissive so she reported it direct to the stud that had supplied it. Subsequently the mare scanned in foal which she again reported to Elite only to have a competition launched by Elite & Anna Ross to name the foal born to dead semen.  Pretty poor taste and will put off a lot of breeders from using Elite Stallions.

I also know of someone whose mare came back from Newton Stud and tested positive for R Equi so I do know that those reports are true.


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## Rowreach (24 February 2021)

Won't be long before this thread disappears I'm guessing ...


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## INDIA1999 (24 February 2021)

sport horse said:



			Yes they did. The lady purchased semen and when her vet examined it she was told it was mostly dead. She, quite correctly, reported this to Elite Stallions who were very dismissive so she reported it direct to the stud that had supplied it. Subsequently the mare scanned in foal which she again reported to Elite only to have a competition launched by Elite & Anna Ross to name the foal born to dead semen.  Pretty poor taste and will put off a lot of breeders from using Elite Stallions.

I also know of someone whose mare came back from Newton Stud and tested positive for R Equi so I do know that those reports are true.
		
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That's right.  Was it Lockdown 1.  I remember social media being rather up in arms.


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## ycbm (24 February 2021)

JaneSewell said:



			YES - the same Die Callas! and absolutely why an open pit ... operated commercially

Thank you ... it has been devastating ... but I hope we can find justice for all the others...!
		
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Welcome Jane,  I can't believe what you've been put through over this.  So sorry for your loss and I hope your court settlement has enabled some closure.  
.


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## Frumpoon (24 February 2021)

Rowreach said:



			Won't be long before this thread disappears I'm guessing ...
		
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Keep the discussion alive on Facebook?


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## INDIA1999 (24 February 2021)

Frumpoon said:



			Keep the discussion alive on Facebook?
		
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There's comments on H&H FB post about the story.


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## JaneSewell (24 February 2021)

Eyore said:



			A lot won't agree, but I think maybe you are right.
		
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Interestingly I


teapot said:



			The same Die Callas that at the time was reported to have died unexpectedly in the field?

Also, why's a stud yard got an open pit, regardless of content? H&S nightmare.
		
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YES the same Die Callas!!


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## Frumpoon (24 February 2021)

INDIA1999 said:



			There's comments on H&H FB post about the story.
		
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Good stuff

This sort of terrible carry on shouldn’t be silenced


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## JaneSewell (24 February 2021)

sport horse said:



			I did hear that they have Rhodococcus Equi which if you google it could well be the cause of some of the reported deaths. I made this known to someone who had a horse at Newton, that person had said horse blood tested when it returned to them and it tested positive.  This will be in the soil so a long term problem.
		
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Yes - my colt was treated for Rhodoccocus Equi - I was not informed and he died shortly after returning home...


milliepops said:



			i think the person who closed the post is connected to the people involved in other ways though, the BD groups on FB are not administered by BD so will be prone to these kind of personal decisions.
		
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## JaneSewell (24 February 2021)

Kamikaze said:



			So did horse get away from a handler? Or did it escape from a field? Ie HOW did it land up in the pit. And why on earth was the pit not secured so a horse couldn’t get to it? We all
Know the scrapes horses can get in to but what happened?
		
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That is a very good question .. with no answers..!


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## JaneSewell (24 February 2021)

Muddywellies said:



			I've seen this bubbling away on social media all weekend.  Regardless of my thoughts, I think it a sad sign of the times when people publicly air their dirty laundry.  I think it's a private matter between NS and the owner of the horse.  The owner suffered a terrible and I'm guessing preventable loss, but it doesn't involve anyone else.   If anyone is considering doing business with NS, it's up to them to visit, make their own enquiries and decide for themselves.
		
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I am astonished that anyone would think I was airing dirty laundry... a world class horse drowned in a slurry pit... that should never have been possible. I worked for the NFU ... that should never have been possible. I lost 2 more horses at the hands of Newton Stud... I know of many many more ... it is shameful!


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## JaneSewell (24 February 2021)

INDIA1999 said:



			OUTRAGEOUS.  It seems that taking out an 8 page pull out in advertising buys you heavily biased reporting from H&H this month and zero fact checking.
1. The fire at Newton Stud was not an inferno. It was well attended by Devon & Somerset Fire Brigade who had it under control.  Their news report on it publicly available. It also says that animals had been turned out into the lane. Do your homework H&H. 2. The barn fire occurred in a barn where horses and hay were stored together!  3. The dressage horse was turned out into a field that HAS a lagoon WITHIN it as can clearly be seen on google earth. Do your homework H&H. 4. If she was seen to panic why did no member of staff do anything about it? 5. The gate was not simply unsecured. The gate was open. It had been left open by a member of staff and it was not checked to be open or closed by the member of staff placing Die Callas in the field.  6. The lagoon was not filled with slurry but it was filled with abattoir meat sludge, abattoir meat washings, abattoir poultry sludge, abattoir poultry washings, dairy processing sludge. Thousands of tons. 7. The "panicking"
horse was not checked on for over 12 hours.
		
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It was totally outrageous ... all those points need answering!


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## JaneSewell (24 February 2021)

Blackhathorse said:



			I'm a new one - my attention was drawn via the facebook hate and its been the topic of discussion at my yard . I was shocked to discover the omissions as the fire has never been mentioned...
		
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There has not been any facebook hate ... only ever the truth...


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## moosea (24 February 2021)

holydaysandholidays said:



			It seems that the horses owner has been relentlessly pursuing the stud over facebook in a really awful way - which is neither dingnified nor honourable To mislead her sympathetic audience in this way has not gone down well .. I've followed it on facebook and didn't like the 'trolling' tone from the start. This has confirmed my unease about this, The rest is pure speculation, we don't know the other side and it seems the stud has been much more professional in not responding to the awful and uninformed comments that have been made by people who weren't there. Sadly this appears to be all about money, the stud accepted liability from the start even under the horrific circumstances of the fire. What happened to #bekind
		
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If it had been my horse I would persue them all over facebook for the rest of time.

Every single profesional yard I have ever been on has had an emergency procedure for fire or evacuation of the yard in emergency situations.

If they were letting horses out into an area where this sort of thing could happen they might as well have let them all out onto the roads. 

While we do not know the other side, what we do know is that the owner lost her horse in horrific circumstances which could have and should have, been prevented. In my opinion the stud not responding is outrageous. There should be a grovelling, public appology to the owner and assurances that the pit has been secured as a minimum.


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## Flyermc (24 February 2021)

I would love to see there risk assessments, particularly on stabling, emergency evacuations and around the surrey pit!!! im amazed its even allowed, not only the very poor fencing and terrible gate, but from a wildlife and environmental point of view (run-off!) im honestly baffled!

I completely agree that the fire is not relevant. It was a contributing factor and the reason the horse was put in a field, but it was not the reason the horse died. The reason the horse died was due to an inadequately secured surrey pit contained within the field.

The reasons why it was inadequately secured, remains to be seen. 

Its very foreseeable that this type of accident would be highly likely to happen and that it is also easily preventable, i dont believe the stud could do anything but admit liability?

It would also be interesting to see if there had been any previously reported accidents, incidents or near-misses sounding this surrey pit, id be very surprised if this was the first and only occasion something went wrong.


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## Frumpoon (24 February 2021)

moosea said:



			If it had been my horse I would persue them all over facebook for the rest of time.

Every single profesional yard I have ever been on has had an emergency procedure for fire or evacuation of the yard in emergency situations.

If they were letting horses out into an area where this sort of thing could happen they might as well have let them all out onto the roads. 

While we do not know the other side, what we do know is that the owner lost her horse in horrific circumstances which could have and should have, been prevented. In my opinion the stud not responding is outrageous. There should be a grovelling, public appology to the owner and assurances that the pit has been secured as a minimum.
		
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Absolutely this!!!!

To then go after the bereaved owner for livery fees is tone deaf at best 

The loss of a horse like this, the loss of any horse like this.....I’d pursue the stud to the ends of the earth too...I’m not sure I’d use legal channels either...


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## JaneSewell (24 February 2021)

StretchyBetty said:



			How do you actually know if those things did or did not happen? Why are you so unwilling to accept this could simply an accident. I’m quite sure no one would ever wish for this to happen
		
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GOSH are you actually serious??


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## JaneSewell (24 February 2021)

Lillian_paddington said:



			Interesting that blackhathorse and stretchybetty made accounts within minutes of one another and have been posting on the same threads all day.... or perhaps I’m overly suspicious 🤷‍♀️
		
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Hilarious!


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## moosea (24 February 2021)

StretchyBetty said:



			Why are you so unwilling to accept this could simply an accident. I’m quite sure no one would ever wish for this to happen
		
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Please could you explain how anyone can turn a horse out into a field, knowing there is an open pit of abbitoir slurry, that is not completly 100% secure in any situation, and say that this is accidental? It's pure negligence and anyone involved should hang their heads in shame.


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## Pinkvboots (24 February 2021)

JaneSewell said:



			YES - the same Die Callas! and absolutely why an open pit ... operated commercially

Thank you ... it has been devastating ... but I hope we can find justice for all the others...!
		
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I can't imagine what you have been through I am really lost for words but I hope no one should ever go through such a thing.


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## OldNag (24 February 2021)

The Fuzzy Furry said:



			Well, got any answers yet, or is your head still in a bucket?  😉
		
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I would answer that, but it's  kinda tricky from inside a bucket.....


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## Pinkvboots (24 February 2021)

INDIA1999 said:



			What is HHO CSI?
		
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We could definitely set one up


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## OldNag (24 February 2021)

I still do not understand why the slurry pit was not properly and securely fenced off,  end of


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## ester (24 February 2021)

Pinkvboots said:



			We could definitely set one up
		
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we've had one for years.

I am thinking that we should have some sort of training thread for new posters so they can work out how quotes and things work before fully throwing themselves in


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## Pinkvboots (24 February 2021)

ester said:



			we've had one for years.

I am thinking that we should have some sort of training thread for new posters so they can work out how quotes and things work before fully throwing themselves in
		
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I'm in and want training


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## JaneSewell (25 February 2021)

Blackhathorse said:



			I think thats because it was a huge ommision in the owners campaign and never mentioned in all these months. I'm shocked at the deception and the one sidedness and its made me doubt the credibility of all the other stuff. Why wasn't it mentioned? Does anyone know?
		
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I am not sure what possible relevance a fire could have to the ability of any horse, let alone a world class horse or much worse a child being able to access a slurry lagoon. It should have been secured at all times without question. Newton Stud have highlighted their swiftness to admit liability. There has been no omission let alone deception.


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## TulipTilly (25 February 2021)

Very obviously a hideous huge fire, which was very notably not mentioned by those who used the sad death of a horse to launch a vicious and intentionally misleading hate campaign against Newton Stud and Anna Ross. The death of any horse is of course tragic, and the distress this caused to all involved is clear - thank goodness that due to the swift actions of staff at Newton Stud, other horses escaped the inferno. Well done to Horse and Hound for reporting on this very sad incident factually, outlining exactly what happened.  The ongoing support and confidence many of the country's best and most experienced riders have in Newton Stud, Elite Dressage and Anna Ross speaks for itself.


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## JaneSewell (25 February 2021)

TulipTilly said:



			Very obviously a hideous huge fire, which was very notably not mentioned by those who used the sad death of a horse to launch a vicious and intentionally misleading hate campaign against Newton Stud and Anna Ross. The death of any horse is of course tragic, and the distress this caused to all involved is clear - thank goodness that due to the swift actions of staff at Newton Stud, other horses escaped the inferno. Well done to Horse and Hound for reporting on this very sad incident factually, outlining exactly what happened.  The ongoing support and confidence many of the country's best and most experienced riders have in Newton Stud, Elite Dressage and Anna Ross speaks for itself.
		
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Glad but astonished that Newton Stud now seem to be admitting liability for both a hideously huge fire and for an unsecured slurry lagoon in which a world class horse horse drowned on the same night... one might be misfortune both is surely negligence...and incredibly that doesn't account for all the other horses lost ... including Faye my yearling who died just 3 weeks before Cassie.. apparently broke a leg in the field?? and Freddie treated for Rhodoccocus Equi about which I was not informed, looking shockingly poor he died shortly after coming home... and the 2 Cornetto King foals that both died plus those that have died but settled and signed NDAs ... Best of luck to many of the country's best and most experienced riders..!!


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## scats (25 February 2021)

I had no idea about the fire and I’m still not too sure about the exact happenings or timescales, so I’m not going to comment on that, but I can’t even begin to imagine how horrendous this must have been for the owner of the horse.


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## Red-1 (25 February 2021)

JaneSewell said:



			I am not sure what possible relevance a fire could have to the ability of any horse, let alone a world class horse or much worse a child being able to access a slurry lagoon. It should have been secured at all times without question. Newton Stud have highlighted their swiftness to admit liability. There has been no omission let alone deception.
		
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I am sorry for your losses.

I do think that you are right to bring up your awful situations. One terrible one being that they came after you for livery fees after the loss of your horse in, what they agree are, negligent circumstances.

I think you are right to highlight the awful way the slurry pit is kept. Also right to highlight the infection that seems endemic at the stud, from which you lost another horse. I think it is a service to horse owners that people have come forward to tell of their own experiences, such as the poor horse who had laminitis and did not get much vet care.

I think you are right to point out the discrepancies with the reporting of the incident V the actual circumstances, including the fact that you were, apparently, unaware, and presumably are not convinced of, your horse's career ending injury.

But, I did feel taken aback at the non-mention of a huge fire. Yes, I do think that the fire was managed badly. But the very fact that the event of the fire was totally omitted from the story is a deviation from the truth, in my eyes. By the great amount of material online, people have built up a mental picture in there minds as to what happened. The picture in my mind did not include an inferno and evacuating horses. I feel let down. I suspect I won't be the only one.

In an emergency situation, people work on adrenaline. They physically have changes in their bodies that mean they are not at their best for thinking. I dare say staff, on that weekend, did their best for the horses. I feel for the person who put that horse into that field. Not detracting for the organisational faults, that were thrown into focus by that situation.

If any good comes of this, I hope the slurry pit is now secured, owners have more information and will decide whether that want their horses grazing on infected land, you have won your case to a sensible conclusion, whatever that is. I do hope that you can start to move on too.


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## Rowreach (25 February 2021)

ester said:



			we've had one for years.

I am thinking that we should have some sort of training thread for new posters so they can work out how quotes and things work before fully throwing themselves in
		
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And old posters who still can't do it, or quote people and then don't add a comment at all (not even one embedded in the quote)


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## Rowreach (25 February 2021)

I have a question for all these new posters who clearly all have inside knowledge, from whatever perspective, and it's this:

Why on earth would anyone send their horse to somewhere with inadequate fencing, a fire risk between the stables, an animal waste pit (I mean, really?), all of which were perfectly obvious on inspection, not to mention a history of young horses dying from R.equi?? 

Would you not give it a massive swerve in the first place, or certainly remove your other horses when something happened to another one?


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## Tiddlypom (25 February 2021)

Rowreach said:



			I have a question for all these new posters who clearly all have inside knowledge, from whatever perspective, and it's this:

Why on earth would anyone send their horse to somewhere with inadequate fencing, a fire risk between the stables, an animal waste pit (I mean, really?), all of which were perfectly obvious on inspection, not to mention a history of young horses dying from R.equi??

Would you not give it a massive swerve in the first place, or certainly remove your other horses when something happened to another one?
		
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Indeed.

The stud support posters are on a major damage limitation crusade. Too late.

Enough truth is out now (the unsecured slurry pit, the R.Equi and maybe other deaths) for the general public to realise just what they would be entrusting their horses to if they sent their horses there. Or indeed, if there was a problem with the semen, if they were trying to buy that.


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## Nanniegeegee (25 February 2021)

I lost embryo transfer twins that I sent there as yearlings


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## ihatework (25 February 2021)

TulipTilly said:



			The ongoing support and confidence many of the country's best and most experienced riders have in Newton Stud, Elite Dressage and Anna Ross speaks for itself.
		
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Until they get burned themselves. Excuse the pun.

Personally I’m not willing to take the risk with any of mine, until fairly recently (ie dead sperm gate) Newton was high on my list to use for future breeding/youngstock as required


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## Arzada (25 February 2021)

Suppose those owners who signed NDAs now spoke out about what happened to their horses while in the 'care' of Newton Stud. What, if any, is the penalty?


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## honetpot (25 February 2021)

Red-1 said:



			In an emergency situation, people work on adrenaline. They physically have changes in their bodies that mean they are not at their best for thinking. I dare say staff, on that weekend, did their best for the horses. I feel for the person who put that horse into that field. Not detracting for the organisational faults, that were thrown into focus by that situation.
		
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 You could say that but, any yard/business should have a fire plan and an evacuation policy. Even my small ramshackle yard has fire equipment, a gated area, and a refuge paddock. Part of fire safety is training staff what to do in the event of a fire, so when it happens they do not have to think. Stables are often made from easily combustible materials and there are other factors that increase the risk.
  Part of running any business is completing risk assessments, and if your main 'product, is horse care, these should not only include your staff but also your charges

  I was going to put my horse in backing livery, on what I thought was a well run yard. When I asked to see the contract, almost the first line of it was, 'we are not responsible for any injury to the horse, even if  caused by the negligence of our staff'. When I questioned this they seem to think this was normal practice, and no other customer had questioned this. As a customer you have the legal right to a fair contract, and legal rights for the service you are provided.


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## SadKen (25 February 2021)

The numerous posts from new accounts with what looks like a strong vested interest in protecting the stud appear coordinated and potentially professionally managed. Goliath is trying to spin this situation by aggressively defending himself for the indefensible, the key argument being 'look how important we are' which is the crappest defence ever, and attacking David when he would have done better to acknowledge his various mistakes and stay down.

I am full of admiration for the owner's determination to a) get justice for her mare and b) ensure this stud's activities in relation to her horse are well publicised. 

The horse world is a small one that lives on reputation. It very much looks like some organisation is actively and extensively trying to squash legitimate criticism and exposure of poor outcomes at this stud. If so, I hope these activities, now in the public eye, help other potential customers to make a fully informed decision. 

I rarely feel angry but this has got me.


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## Lurfy (25 February 2021)

My heart goes out to the owner of this poor mare who drowned in the slurry pit. What an appalling occurrence, I am devastated reading this thread. If this had been my horse I would be beside myself . This should never have happened. Newton Stud failed miserably in their duty of care to their clients horses.


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## ycbm (25 February 2021)

ester said:



			I am thinking that we should have some sort of training thread for new posters so they can work out how quotes and things work before fully throwing themselves in
		
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Be my guest 

https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/threads/by-popular-request-how-to-use-quotes.801889/


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## INDIA1999 (25 February 2021)

I thought an inferno is an out of control fire.  Much focus seems to be placed on the fire. 

There was presumably no fire when the member of staff left the gate to slurry lagoon wide open. So surely that is Mistake no1. That suggests to me they do not have tight H&S.

I do not know how many horses had to be evacuated that evening but it was July so let's say it is 30-50. They turned horses out from one danger without considering whether they were exposing them to another.  Mistake no2.

Presumably at some point that evening (the fire appears to start at 7pm) 30-50 horses have been safely evacuated. For what possible reason did the member of staff or any member of staff not check on the world class dressage horse they have stated was turned out PANICKING until the following day? It was a summer's evening so light.

It leaves the burning question (excuse the pun)  that if they had checked on her they might have found her in the lagoon and SAVED HER (not least of all because they had the fire brigade on site) or found her still unsettled and done something about that or seen the slurry pit gate open.So that's Mistake no3.

Three points of failure with devastating consequences.  

It would be interesting to understand Newton Stud's staff to horse ratios. Does anyone know this?

The fire happened in daylight in the summer when most of the horses were presumably turned out. I do wonder what Newton Stud's fire strategy is for winter when they show hundreds of horses in barns and one of the barns where my friend's horses were kept was miles away from the stud.


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## honetpot (25 February 2021)

Arzada said:



			Suppose those owners who signed NDAs now spoke out about what happened to their horses while in the 'care' of Newton Stud. What, if any, is the penalty?
		
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 If the information is in the public domain, or the activity covered in the NDA is criminal, its doubtful an NDA is enforceable. They also have to prove you understood the NDA and had suitable legal advice. To make it less likely to be broken they should pay for the signer to have independent legal advice, so they can not say they didn't understand the terms of the NDA.


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## OldNag (25 February 2021)

Tiddlypom said:



			Indeed.

The stud support posters are on a major damage limitation crusade. Too late.

Enough truth is out now (the unsecured slurry pit, the R.Equi and maybe other deaths) for the general public to realise just what they would be entrusting their horses to if they sent their horses there. Or indeed, if there was a problem with the semen, if they were trying to buy that.
		
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Agreed. I do think that if this is a coordinated campaign, it is seriously backfiring.


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## Frumpoon (25 February 2021)

I don't think the fire particularly sways my opinion...the behaviour of the stud is disgusting and the horse's owner has shown tremendous resolve and determination

It isn't JUST the fire/slurry issue...it's the behaviour before, during and after of an equestrian business that seems to regard itself as a cut above

Dead and infected youngstock, polluted land, bribery [settlements] and intimidation [NDA's], selling dead semen and then the mocking of paying customers....just who or what do these people think they are....????


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## sherry90 (25 February 2021)

Gingerwitch said:



			I wonder how many brown envelopes crossed palms to get that glowing right up?
		
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and so well timed?!


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## Equi (25 February 2021)

The post re the sperm was quite appalling to do to a customer.


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## Gingerwitch (25 February 2021)

sherry90 said:



			and so well timed?!
		
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And soooooo well written.  Poor newton stud, wonder how long before re branding occurs if the carpet is not big enough to sweep this under?


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## Renvers (25 February 2021)

JaneSewell said:



			Glad but astonished that Newton Stud now seem to be admitting liability for both a hideously huge fire and for an unsecured slurry lagoon in which a world class horse horse drowned on the same night... one might be misfortune both is surely negligence...and incredibly that doesn't account for all the other horses lost ... including Faye my yearling who died just 3 weeks before Cassie.. apparently broke a leg in the field?? and Freddie treated for Rhodoccocus Equi about which I was not informed, looking shockingly poor he died shortly after coming home... and the 2 Cornetto King foals that both died plus those that have died but settled and signed NDAs ... Best of luck to many of the country's best and most experienced riders..!!
		
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Jane, I am sorry for your loss. She looked a truly wonderful mare.

Regardless of the part a fire played in the tragic death of your mare, it is the entire experience you had which has made me reconsider using Newton Stud or Elite Stallions for my broodmare or any future youngstock.

An accidental fire and its aftermath can be a terrible tragedy and on its own might not have raised alarm bells to the extent it has. The subsequent litigation against you and the information shared on social media by others of their bad experiences have shown a pattern to concern me that this Stud is not as professional as the marketing/staff would like me to believe. Whatever other information we are not privy to but which a court thought significant enough to be willing to hear your case is clearly damning too.

Anyone with half a brain knows that how a business responds to mistakes is a far bigger advert than any multi-page spread and the laughable attempts of NS fans or staff to try and derail this discussion just make them look incompetent.


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## foxy1 (25 February 2021)

Regardless of the fire, or any other incident or emergency, its absolutely unforgiveable that a slurry pit gate should be left unsecured for even a moment. 
It's unbelievable that the evacuated horses were not checked. 
Poor poor horse and a brave owner to make sure this story is told.


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## Fandabbydozy (25 February 2021)

JaneSewell said:



			That is a very good question .. with no answers..!
		
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Red-1 said:



			I am sorry for your losses.

I do think that you are right to bring up your awful situations. One terrible one being that they came after you for livery fees after the loss of your horse in, what they agree are, negligent circumstances.

I think you are right to highlight the awful way the slurry pit is kept. Also right to highlight the infection that seems endemic at the stud, from which you lost another horse. I think it is a service to horse owners that people have come forward to tell of their own experiences, such as the poor horse who had laminitis and did not get much vet care.

I think you are right to point out the discrepancies with the reporting of the incident V the actual circumstances, including the fact that you were, apparently, unaware, and presumably are not convinced of, your horse's career ending injury.

But, I did feel taken aback at the non-mention of a huge fire. Yes, I do think that the fire was managed badly. But the very fact that the event of the fire was totally omitted from the story is a deviation from the truth, in my eyes. By the great amount of material online, people have built up a mental picture in there minds as to what happened. The picture in my mind did not include an inferno and evacuating horses. I feel let down. I suspect I won't be the only one.

In an emergency situation, people work on adrenaline. They physically have changes in their bodies that mean they are not at their best for thinking. I dare say staff, on that weekend, did their best for the horses. I feel for the person who put that horse into that field. Not detracting for the organisational faults, that were thrown into focus by that situation.

If any good comes of this, I hope the slurry pit is now secured, owners have more information and will decide whether that want their horses grazing on infected land, you have won your case to a sensible conclusion, whatever that is. I do hope that you can start to move on too.
		
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Frumpoon said:



			What hate?
		
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Arzada said:



			Suppose those owners who signed NDAs now spoke out about what happened to their horses while in the 'care' of Newton Stud. What, if any, is the penalty?
		
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i understand monetary damages will not suffice & the threat is of court injunction


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## Tiddlypom (25 February 2021)

The ‘glowing write up’ in last week’s H&H is an advertising feature pull out, so it was funded by the Newton Stud .




ETA Does anyone have a photo of the slurry pit and its fencing as it is now? Has the fencing been improved?


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## laura_nash (25 February 2021)

Fandabbydozy said:



			i understand monetary damages will not suffice & the threat is of court injunction
		
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Huh?

You might want to have a read of the thread on how to use quotes.  I have no idea what this is in answer to..


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## INDIA1999 (25 February 2021)

Tiddlypom said:



			The ‘glowing write up’ in last week’s H&H is an advertising feature pull out, so it was funded by the Newton Stud .

View attachment 66664

Oh my goodness. Well that explains a great deal.  Perhaps post that in comments on the H&H Facebook page for the story. I am sure others would be interested to fully understand that.
		
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## Tiddlypom (25 February 2021)

Anyone who wishes to can add a screenshot of that advertising blurb to FB, it’s in the public domain.

I don’t get embroiled in FB wrangles, I stay on HHO, so it won’t be me putting it up .


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## Gingerwitch (25 February 2021)

Tiddlypom said:



			The ‘glowing write up’ in last week’s H&H is an advertising feature pull out, so it was funded by the Newton Stud .

View attachment 66664


ETA Does anyone have a photo of the slurry pit and its fencing as it is now? Has the fencing been improved?
		
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But a respectable magazine would surely not want to be caught on the cross hairs..... lots of bad taste all round. Says slot about the ethics at horse and hound...... so if that harry bloke who knocks teeth out of horses paid enough hho would allow him to publish a glowing advert for backing and breaking skills...... erm think not. So obviously money talks.
Hho credibility certainly getting more and more questionable..... sadly I used to respect the magazine and its articles.


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## teapot (25 February 2021)

There's a whole page piece in today's H&H


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## INDIA1999 (25 February 2021)

Horse & Hound Facebook Moderator has been hiding comments on the newsfeed to do with this story that they do not like. Quite a few of them.One person called Cornetto King posted yesterday that she had lost two youngsters at the stud (just that) and it was removed. I was waiting to see if anyone asked her what happened because I wanted to know. It disappeared and others. I can see she has just reposted it.


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## ester (25 February 2021)

teapot said:



			There's a whole page piece in today's H&H
		
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different to tiddlypom's pic?

GW you don't mean harry you mean Jay Johnson I think?


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## Roxylola (25 February 2021)

ester said:



			different to tiddlypom's pic?

GW you don't mean harry you mean Jay Johnson I think?
		
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No, Jay Johnson is another one - they had something about Harry Evans who makes Johnson look like Mr Kiss and Cuddles!


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## ester (25 February 2021)

Oh I missed that, oh well another to add to the list!


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## teapot (25 February 2021)

ester said:



			different to tiddlypom's pic?
		
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Yes, actual news article/editorial, page 8.


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## crellow4 (25 February 2021)

Equi said:



			The post re the sperm was quite appalling to do to a customer.
		
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Not only was it a terrible PR move - most of the comments on FB were in support of the client (and were subsequently deleted by ES). It was also a breach of Data Protection as the client had not authorised ES to publicise the pregnancy.  Be careful who you trust, not only with your horses but also with your DATA.


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## 9tails (25 February 2021)

Tiddlypom said:



			The stud support posters are on a major damage limitation crusade. Too late.
		
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Poster.  All the new members are suspiciously similar in writing style.  

I wouldn't be surprised if this thread is locked or removed pretty sharpish with another fat brown envelope.


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## Tiddlypom (25 February 2021)

teapot said:



			Yes, actual news article/editorial, page 8.
		
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It’s in the new H&H print edition out today, but it’s a printed version of what was put up on H&H plus yesterday, and I part quoted earlier.

H&H plus is behind a paywall, but here’s my quote with the link again.



Tiddlypom said:



https://www.horseandhound.co.uk/plu...mare-who-died-in-slurry-lagoon-hh-plus-738335

_It was an emergency evacuation,” she_ (Lorna Wilson, of Newton Stud) _said. “It was an inferno and we had to get the horses out as quickly and safely as we could. The field into which Die Callas and one other mare were evacuated, to try to keep them safe, lay next to another field in which a slurry pit was located, separated by a fence and a gate._

_*“In her panic, *Die Callas went through the gate and continued into the slurry pit where she tragically died. Despite the challenging circumstances of the emergency that led to the incident, Newton Stud immediately admitted liability for this accident and provided insurance details without hesitation.”_

Click to expand...


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## INDIA1999 (25 February 2021)

Tiddlypom said:



			It’s in the new H&H print edition out today, but it’s a printed version of what was put up on H&H plus yesterday, and I part quoted earlier.

H&H plus is behind a paywall, but here’s my quote with the link again.
		
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How would you read that quote from Lorna Wilson?  

That the slurry lagoon was in the same field or a different field to the horses?

That the horse went through a gate (ie crashed through a wooden or metal gate (a gate being a physical thing) 
Or she went through a gateway ie a big empty space between two posts where a gate should have been?


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## teapot (25 February 2021)

Tiddlypom said:



			It’s in the new H&H print edition out today, but it’s a printed version of what was put up on H&H plus yesterday, and I part quoted earlier.

H&H plus is behind a paywall, but here’s my quote with the link again.
		
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Ah missed that post, sorry  Least it's made hard copy!


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## Tiddlypom (25 February 2021)

I thought that this bit was written in a way as to be deliberately vague...

_“In her panic, Die Callas went through the gate and continued into the slurry pit where she tragically died_

Gate left open? Horse barges through insecure gate? Another explanation?



teapot said:



			Ah missed that post, sorry  Least it's made hard copy!
		
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No problem, there’s so much to keep up with, and it’s a pain that it’s behind a paywall.


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## INDIA1999 (25 February 2021)

Tiddlypom said:



			I thought that this bit was written in a way as to be deliberately vague...

_“In her panic, Die Callas went through the gate and continued into the slurry pit where she tragically died_

Gate left open? Horse barges through insecure gate? Another explanation?
		
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Somewhere on here I have seen the horses's owner say that the gate was left open that that is what Newton Stud staff had said in the court case. Panicking horse put in field. Slurry pit in field. Some fencing around the slurry pit and a gate. Gate left open. No one checks panicking horse again until following day. Found dead in lagoon.


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## Gingerwitch (25 February 2021)

Well of course this post will ho proof..... cant have the truth out now can we.....


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## rascal (25 February 2021)

Nanniegeegee said:



			I wish that I had known about the abattoir waste being spread on the fields before I sent my yearlings there.  They both died.
		
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So sorry, they did not deserve that, and neither did you


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## celeste-izzy (25 February 2021)

In case anyone hasn't figured it out yet, both Anna and Lorna have made accounts to try and justify on here what happened.


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## The Fuzzy Furry (25 February 2021)

celeste-izzy said:



			In case anyone hasn't figured it out yet, both Anna and Lorna have made accounts to try and justify on here what happened.
		
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That was quite clear last night.
#hhocsi


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## Millie-Rose (25 February 2021)

I don't really think the fire is relevant. I have a 21 box yard and our fire plan is to evacuate into the two large fields adjacent to the yard. Mares into one and geldings the other. These horses are usually on individual turnout so I suppose this could potentially result in a fatal kick- that would be an accident. A horse or anyone/anything else being able to fall into a slurry pit whatever the circumstances is negligence!


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## Apercrumbie (25 February 2021)

What a terribly sad story. Even if you take the fire and inevitable confusion around it into consideration, the simple fact of the matter is that a pool of waste or slurry should be completely securely fenced off from both horses and humans. This was a completely avoidable accident and even if I ignore the stud's response since, the attitude of being so lax about this just stinks. They're lucky a child has never messed around on their land, this was a serious accident waiting to happen. They're either naive idiots or willfully negligent.


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## conniegirl (25 February 2021)

Millie-Rose said:



			I don't really think the fire is relevant. I have a 21 box yard and our fire plan is to evacuate into the two large fields adjacent to the yard. Mares into one and geldings the other. These horses are usually on individual turnout so I suppose this could potentially result in a fatal kick- that would be an accident. A horse or anyone/anything else being able to fall into a slurry pit whatever the circumstances is negligence!
		
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This exactly, had the mare slipped and broke a leg, or been kicked that would have been a tragic accident.

Our yard has several paddocks and yards that horses will be turned out into in the event of a fire. yes the horses normaly on individual turnout would be bunged in with them and there is always a risk when horses go in with each other for the first time. 
once the initial evacuation is done the fire brigade wont let you near the yard whilst they deal with the fire so it makes sense to go back and start separating horses and putting them in separate paddocks, catch the antisocial horses and pop the in more far flung fields whilst Checking that no horse has injured itself, no one is colicing due to the stress. 12hrs to check a horse that has just been evacuated from a fire is just not good enough.


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## Frumpoon (25 February 2021)

meleeka said:



			[Content removed]
		
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This exactly!

It seems like young, otherwise healthy horses have been dying there for years


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## Gingerwitch (25 February 2021)

Frumpoon said:



			This exactly!

It seems like young, otherwise healthy horses have been dying there for years
		
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But they are highly respected professionals...... so it cant possibly be there methods and ethics now can it..... I mean what type of a low end livery yard would allow animals to have rhodococcus rampaging in its animals and say nothing. ! anyone can have a disease outbreak the decent honest yards dont cover it up. They work with the owners and thus guarantee there credibility. This lot well I just wouldn't believe them in they said its was the 25th of feb 2021....


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## Palindrome (25 February 2021)

Poor mare, it must have been terrifying. First the fire, then falling into a slurry pit.


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## Tiddlypom (25 February 2021)

celeste-izzy said:



			In case anyone hasn't figured it out yet, both Anna and Lorna have made accounts to try and justify on here what happened.
		
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The Fuzzy Furry said:



			That was quite clear last night.
#hhocsi
		
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HHO CSI Foundation Level Award, it wasn’t too had to suss them out, was it .


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## Amymay (25 February 2021)

Tiddlypom said:



			HHO CSI Foundation Level Award, it wasn’t too had to suss them out, was it .
		
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🤷🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️


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## Gingerwitch (25 February 2021)

Tiddlypom said:



			HHO CSI Foundation Level Award, it wasn’t too had to suss them out, was it .
		
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Which one is which ?


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## celeste-izzy (25 February 2021)

Tiddlypom said:



			HHO CSI Foundation Level Award, it wasn’t too had to suss them out, was it .
		
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Ha no! I'd come off nights, scanned through and thought oh....theyve appeared. Hard to say which is which, but they've both been very active on FB recently. 
Eurodressage also wrote a report about Elite Stallions, I didn't bother to read it.


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## Flyermc (25 February 2021)

i dont want to go off the thread, but how on earth do you get a dead horse out of a pit full of hazardous substances?


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## Gingerwitch (25 February 2021)

Flyermc said:



			i dont want to go off the thread, but how on earth do you get a dead horse out of a pit full of hazardous substances?
		
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Really what a question to ask when owner of horse is active on this thread. Have some modicum of consideration and respect.


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## The Fuzzy Furry (25 February 2021)

Flyermc said:



			i dont want to go off the thread, but how on earth do you get a dead horse out of a pit full of hazardous substances?
		
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Hazmat suit, long rope and a tractor.


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## crellow4 (25 February 2021)

The Fuzzy Furry said:



			Hazmat suit, long rope and a tractor.
		
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I'm pretty certain that, sadly, the mare was not recovered from the sludge lagoon.


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## JaneSewell (25 February 2021)

Flyermc said:



			i dont want to go off the thread, but how on earth do you get a dead horse out of a pit full of hazardous substances?
		
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That is a very good question.. no explanation was ever offered ... There was no narrative whatsoever of how they removed the body from the slurry lagoon ...I did not see any body ... there was no vet report or post mortem ... Utterly extraordinary!!


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## JaneSewell (25 February 2021)

Palindrome said:



			Poor mare, it must have been terrifying. First the fire, then falling into a slurry pit.
		
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Genuinely doesn't bear thinking about!!😢


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## JaneSewell (25 February 2021)

Flyermc said:



			i dont want to go off the thread, but how on earth do you get a dead horse out of a pit full of hazardous substances?
		
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... you would think that would be a key part of the correspondence between us but it has never once been addressed. I have never been told how she was recovered, I have never seen a body, there was no veterinary report... nothing on her passport ... quite bizarre


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## meleeka (25 February 2021)

crellow4 said:



			I'm pretty certain that, sadly, the mare was not recovered from the sludge lagoon.
		
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JaneSewell said:



			... you would think that would be a key part of the correspondence between us but it has never once been addressed. I have never been told how she was recovered, I have never seen a body, there was no veterinary report... nothing on her passport ... quite bizarre
		
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They didn’t even tell you what happened to her body??  That’s truly awful 😞


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## Ossy2 (25 February 2021)

JaneSewell said:



			... you would think that would be a key part of the correspondence between us but it has never once been addressed. I have never been told how she was recovered, I have never seen a body, there was no veterinary report... nothing on her passport ... quite bizarre
		
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How absolutely weird, what evidence is there that the horse actually died? I mean you have to wonder how you actually prove a horse has actually died with no body and no report.


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## JaneSewell (25 February 2021)

crellow4 said:



			I'm pretty certain that, sadly, the mare was not recovered from the sludge lagoon.
		
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No record of that... no mention whatsoever in any correspondence... no body... no veterinary report..😢 Unbelievable!


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## JaneSewell (26 February 2021)

Ossy2 said:



			How absolutely weird, what evidence is there that the horse actually died? I mean you have to wonder how you actually prove a horse has actually died with no body and no report.
		
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Well.. it is not the first time that question has been raised...


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## horsimous (26 February 2021)

Gosh, how bizarre if that was just a pony we’d all think it had been stolen.

I also find it odd that hay/straw would be kept in the same building as livestock or even close proximity. I always thought that was a massive No?


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## JaneSewell (26 February 2021)

JaneSewell said:



			[Content removed]
		
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horsimous said:



			Gosh, how bizarre if that was just a pony we’d all think it had been stolen.

I also find it odd that hay/straw would be kept in the same building as livestock or even close proximity. I always thought that was a massive No?
		
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Yes .... utterly bizarre ...  and not 'just a pony' they are all so invaluable to us... but many people think the same...

and to your second point absolutely!!!


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## JaneSewell (26 February 2021)

Palindrome said:



			Poor mare, it must have been terrifying. First the fire, then falling into a slurry pit.
		
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It is unimaginable! 😢😢😢


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## Fandabbydozy (26 February 2021)

JaneSewell said:



			It is unimaginable! 😢😢😢
		
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Did you ever ask what happened to her body? Not a pleasant question but I would want to know 😔 Between the fire brigade & the farmer it would have been very possible to get her out.   And if you are right & her body was never recovered then that shows them in their true light...’Oh well she’s dead we’ll just leave her there’ no respect no compassion. Disgusting


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## CanteringCarrot (26 February 2021)

horsimous said:



			Gosh, how bizarre if that was just a pony we’d all think it had been stolen.

I also find it odd that hay/straw would be kept in the same building as livestock or even close proximity. I always thought that was a massive No?
		
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Yeah, it's a "no" and certainly not an ideal practice, but it is fairly common. I think many people don't consider this when designing a yard.



The stud seem very unprofessional/I had to ask myself if the place were actually being run by full grown adults. Between the semen situation, this, and other happenings, I am utterly confused and turned off by their odd, dishonest, and frankly immature behavior. It's not difficult to act professional and business-like. Even when sh*t happens, because horses, you still don't need to be deceptive or making a mockery.

Due to the amount of NDA's mentioned amongst other behaviors, it gives me an on feeling about what is going on. NDA's are common practice in some industries and situations, I am not sure, however, why a Stud would put them to use so frequently...for clients. Then, why exactly are people signing these instead of settling an issue and moving along/possibly being able to speak about it. Maybe I am missing something and it's a simple answer.

Either way, you can only sweep so much dirt under the rug.

Again, sh*t can happen with horses sometimes, even with preventative measures, and I get that, but this seems to go a bit beyond that.

I also apologise if this is insensitive, but how or why does a horse go into a slurry pit? Did the horse just run in a blind panic and just fall in? Idk, many horses are weird about puddles, never mind a slurry pit. Or is the ground around it soft and it's sort of like being sucked into a mud bog or something? Idk. As others mentioned you'd think there would be enough fencing to deter a horse from getting in.


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## Gingerwitch (26 February 2021)

Considering a horses sense of smell as well?


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## Circe (26 February 2021)

Lurfy said:



			My heart goes out to the owner of this poor mare who drowned in the slurry pit. What an appalling occurrence, I am devastated reading this thread. If this had been my horse I would be beside myself . This should never have happened. Newton Stud failed miserably in their duty of care to their clients horses.
		
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This^. Reading what happened to this poor horse brings tears to my eyes, but then to discover they never recovered the mare is just terrible. 
Kx


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## Frumpoon (26 February 2021)

With no body and no record of a body [photographs/video/fire service report] I'd be highly suspicious that, that mare is perhaps not deceased....


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## OldNag (26 February 2021)

Frumpoon said:



			With no body and no record of a body [photographs/video/fire service report] I'd be highly suspicious that, that mare is perhaps not deceased....
		
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This is getting more and more concerning. Given all the other stuff that has been pointed out, it makes me suspicious too.


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## Frumpoon (26 February 2021)

OldNag said:



			This is getting more and more concerning. Given all the other stuff that has been pointed out, it makes me suspicious too.
		
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Clearly one could not compete a well-known and recognisable horse after a theft but as a broodmare of that quality - £££££££


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## CanteringCarrot (26 February 2021)

Yeah, the no body is suspicious. This is gruesome, but at least a photo of the body in the pit would be something. But there's...nothing? How do you know she was actually in there? Hoof prints and a missing horse? Maybe an eye witness account?

I am assuming the horse is/was insured...so wouldn't the insurance need some form of proof (vet or what have you). Unless the owner did not/is not making a claim.


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## Gingerwitch (26 February 2021)

Lord above. And this place is still operating !!!!!!!!


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## bouncing_ball (26 February 2021)

celeste-izzy said:



			[Content removed]
		
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Where is there evidence more than one horse drowned in slurry pit?


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## Renvers (26 February 2021)

celeste-izzy said:



			[Content removed]
		
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I have only ever known of horse deaths were a Vet was in attendance, either treating a fatality or euthanasia so always assumed they have to be present for certification/paperwork for confirmation of death. With horses can anyone vet or otherwise certify death if they haven't seen a body?


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## Frumpoon (26 February 2021)

bouncing_ball said:



			Where is there evidence more than one horse drowned in slurry pit?
		
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Well...at the minute there doesn't look to be firm evidence that this horse drowned in the slurry....


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## Pinkvboots (26 February 2021)

I still can't get my head around the fact that no one checked on the horse that supposedly fell in the slurry pit until the following day it's bizarre, it's all very strange especially as now there is no actual proof of her body!!

How is this place still trading it's disgusting.


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## Auslander (26 February 2021)

I think suggesting that there's some sort of conspiracy theory may be taking it a bit far. Their reputation is important to them, and having a valuable horse drown in an insufficiently secured slurry pit on their land, whilst under their care is indefensible. You'd think they'd be desperately trying to cover up the cause of death, rather than admitting that it happened.


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## Tiddlypom (26 February 2021)

Auslander said:



			You'd think they'd be desperately trying to cover up the cause of death, rather than admitting that it happened.
		
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Unless the real fate of the horse was even more indefensible  than her falling into an insecure slurry pit?

ETA Btw, to the Newton Stud groupies on this thread. Do you have up to date and clearly recognisable photos and drone footage of how the slurry pit is currently fenced and secured? Bearing in mine that we know the lie of the land thanks to Google maps?


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## CanteringCarrot (26 February 2021)

Auslander said:



			I think suggesting that there's some sort of conspiracy theory may be taking it a bit far. Their reputation is important to them, and having a valuable horse drown in an insufficiently secured slurry pit on their land, whilst under their care is indefensible. You'd think they'd be desperately trying to cover up the cause of death, rather than admitting that it happened.
		
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Based off of other actions I would say their reputation isn't important, as in they don't want to rightfully maintain it. Seems as though riding off the name of the Stud and the fact that there are big name horses and riders there is more the plan. 

And honestly a horse that one could say "panicked during a fire and subsequently ran(?) Into a slurry pit" sounds far less nefarious than other things I can think of and heard of around the industry. 

I would normally think this was an accident, although idk if I could get my horse near a slurry pit tbh. Still wonder about that. It's not necessarily what happens (although in this case, yeah) but more of how they handle it.


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## Auslander (26 February 2021)

Tiddlypom said:



			Unless the real fate of the horse was even more indefensible  than her falling into an insecure slurry pit?
		
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Well, yes - but if I was dodgy enough to try and cover up what had happened to a horse, I'd swear blind it had had dropped dead of a heart attack!


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## CanteringCarrot (26 February 2021)

Auslander said:



			Well, yes - but if I was dodgy enough to try and cover up what had happened to a horse, I'd swear blind it had had dropped dead of a heart attack!
		
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Hm. But then you'd have to produce a body and vet finding of a heart attack. 

Whereas no one really wants to search a slurry pit and might take your word for it?

Idk. I am not sure I buy into the conspiracy, but do acknowledge the lack of "proof" gives no closure to the matter. However, since there was a legal case, I would think there would be proof? But idk if they settled before things got rolling, so to speak. 

Lots of unknowns and assuming here. We may never know. The Stud, I hope, learned from this and will be more mindful of the livestock there.


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## INDIA1999 (26 February 2021)

celeste-izzy said:



			[Content removed]
		
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Where have you heard of another case.  I think there is only one.


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## Tiddlypom (26 February 2021)

Auslander said:



			Well, yes - but if I was dodgy enough to try and cover up what had happened to a horse, I'd swear blind it had had dropped dead of a heart attack!
		
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But if there’s a body, especially one of such a valuable horse, a vet would be called out to confirm the cause of death. You wouldn’t just call the knacker man on his morning rounds and get him to cart the body off without getting the death signed off in some way, unless the owner OK’d it.


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## Chinchilla (26 February 2021)

Tiddlypom said:



			But if there’s a body, especially one of such a valuable horse, a vet would be called out to confirm the cause of death. You wouldn’t just call the knacker man on his morning rounds and get him to cart the body off without getting the death signed off in some way, unless the owner OK’d it.
		
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Is it not usual when a horse is being boarded on another's premises to agree a plan should the animal die whilst there?


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## ihatework (26 February 2021)

Chinchilla said:



			Is it not usual when a horse is being boarded on another's premises to agree a plan should the animal die whilst there?
		
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In my experience no.

It’s just general good practise to communicate quickly, openly and honestly with the owner.

I mean, one would hope that was just common sense. But it would appear deceit and ego can get in the way sometimes ....


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## Chinchilla (26 February 2021)

ihatework said:



			In my experience no.

It’s just general good practise to communicate quickly, openly and honestly with the owner.

I mean, one would hope that was just common sense. But it would appear deceit and ego can get in the way sometimes ....
		
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Ok thank you; I genuinely wasn't aware what was usual practice.

Awful situation.


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## Gingerwitch (26 February 2021)

Chinchilla said:



			Ok thank you; I genuinely wasn't aware what was usual practice.

Awful situation.
		
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Well deceit and ego appears common practice at Newton Stud....... but not sure that is what you mean.


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## Arzada (26 February 2021)

Tiddlypom said:



			But if there’s a body, especially one of such a valuable horse, a vet would be called out to confirm the cause of death.
		
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Equus Vets have a clinic and resident vet at Newton Stud. There isn't a call out fee for on site horses.


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## Goldenstar (26 February 2021)

Frumpoon said:



			Clearly one could not compete a well-known and recognisable horse after a theft but as a broodmare of that quality - £££££££
		
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A mare is valuable because of her performance record and breeding neither of which would add value to warmblood foal of unknown breeding because it’s mother had been spirited away not drowned in terrible circumstances .
Lets try to keep this within the bounds of reality .


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## The Fuzzy Furry (26 February 2021)

Chinchilla said:



			Is it not usual when a horse is being boarded on another's premises to agree a plan should the animal die whilst there?
		
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I've always included this as part of any livery or production equine contract. Plus which options of pts, disposal,  autopsies (if required) and if shoes, mane/tail,  ashes wanted back etc etc.

But hey, I was (still am) a tin pot outfit compared with most. Cover all bases as much as possible in the hope I'd never need to use the plan


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## Chinchilla (26 February 2021)

The Fuzzy Furry said:



			I've always included this as part of any livery or production equine contract. Plus which options of pts, disposal,  autopsies (if required) and if shoes, mane/tail,  ashes wanted back etc etc.

But hey, I was (still am) a tin pot outfit compared with most. Cover all bases as much as possible in the hope I'd never need to use the plan
		
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I do it, too, when petsitting, just wasn't sure what was usual for livery yards.


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## Archangel (26 February 2021)

Looking at the overhead shot of the farm, there is nothing on the farm that looks like a slurry lagoon.  it looks like a possible slurry lagoon 2 fields away from the buildings but it does look fenced - when you go to streetview it is just a field so maybe not.   It is the corner so I suppose possible for a horse galloping madly to just run up the bank and go in it.  Not impossible to recover the mare with a bit of machinery with a long arm though. I am sure DEFRA would have an opinion about a horse left in a slurry lagoon.  It doesn't look like the sort of farm that would have an open slurry lagoon, some of the old farms in Wales are a death trap but this one looks modern.


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## INDIA1999 (26 February 2021)

Arzada said:



			Equus Vets have a clinic and resident vet at Newton Stud. There isn't a call out fee for on site horses.
		
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So presumably the resident vet will have seen/examined her after she was removed. So how can there be no vet report?


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## Gingerwitch (26 February 2021)

INDIA1999 said:



			So presumably the resident vet will have seen/examined her after she was removed. So how can there be no vet report?
		
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The owner has stated body not recovered.
You cannot examine something not recovered.
Why animal was not recovered can only be answered by newton.
They do not appear to give facts only interpretations of what they would like you to believe.


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## Annagain (26 February 2021)

Archangel said:



			Looking at the overhead shot of the farm, there is nothing on the farm that looks like a slurry lagoon.  it looks like a possible slurry lagoon 2 fields away from the buildings but it does look fenced - when you go to streetview it is just a field so maybe not.   It is the corner so I suppose possible for a horse galloping madly to just run up the bank and go in it.  Not impossible to recover the mare with a bit of machinery with a long arm though. I am sure DEFRA would have an opinion about a horse left in a slurry lagoon.  It doesn't look like the sort of farm that would have an open slurry lagoon, some of the old farms in Wales are a death trap but this one looks modern.

I have an old slurry lagoon from the days when my farm was a dairy farm, it is the size of an arena.  It is fenced, the gates are double tied shut and it is now a sort of big wildlife pond,.  All the local farmers warned me about it when I moved here saying it was bottomless and to leave it well alone.
		
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Why in Wales? We're not all backward hillbillies here - or the only place place where there are old farms.


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## INDIA1999 (26 February 2021)

Gingerwitch said:



			The owner has stated body not recovered.
You cannot examine something not recovered.
Why animal was not recovered can only be answered by newton.
They do not appear to give facts only interpretations of what they would like you to believe.
		
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There does seem to be a lot of unanswered questions. I posed a host of them on here a couple of days ago after reading everything doing a bit of basic research including what was clearly some form of ambiguity/spin in the quotes from the stud in H&H article. The going through the gate implies that she somehow smashed through a gate but the owner has said the gate was left open.


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## Rowreach (26 February 2021)

The Fuzzy Furry said:



			I've always included this as part of any livery or production equine contract. Plus which options of pts, disposal,  autopsies (if required) and if shoes, mane/tail,  ashes wanted back etc etc.

But hey, I was (still am) a tin pot outfit compared with most. Cover all bases as much as possible in the hope I'd never need to use the plan
		
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So did I.  When I was in England there were lots of different options and it was easier (and protected everyone) if every eventuality was covered beforehand, just in case.

Fewer options where I am now, but I still had it written in the contract.


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## Rowreach (26 February 2021)

I still keep coming back to the fact that if I knew a yard had an animal waste pit on it, anywhere, I wouldn't let any of my horses anywhere near the yard (never mind the pit).


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## Gingerwitch (26 February 2021)

Rowreach said:



			I still keep coming back to the fact that if I knew a yard had an animal waste pit on it, anywhere, I wouldn't let any of my horses anywhere near the yard (never mind the pit).
		
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But until this awful tragedy occurred it would not be on top of most peoples ask list.
For those that continue to use this facility, knowing these events of the lost mare and the deadspermgate incident only have themselves to blame for any losses, failings and cover ups.


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## Littlebear (26 February 2021)

Gingerwitch said:



			But until this awful tragedy occurred it would not be on top of most peoples ask list.
For those that continue to use this facility, knowing these events of the lost mare and the deadspermgate incident only have themselves to blame for any losses, failings and cover ups.
		
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I agree, I have looked at this place before reading any negatives and it held me back that it was such a long way from where I am to visit regularly. I would never have thought to check every inch of the place for something like this nor have I ever searched a large yard i have been on for similar, it would not have crossed my mind.
I would however, have expected a credible place to take adequate precautions with regard to the risk of something like this. Really feel for the owner in this situation.


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## bouncing_ball (26 February 2021)

Archangel said:



			Looking at the overhead shot of the farm, there is nothing on the farm that looks like a slurry lagoon.  it looks like a possible slurry lagoon 2 fields away from the buildings but it does look fenced - when you go to streetview it is just a field so maybe not.   It is the corner so I suppose possible for a horse galloping madly to just run up the bank and go in it.  Not impossible to recover the mare with a bit of machinery with a long arm though. I am sure DEFRA would have an opinion about a horse left in a slurry lagoon.  It doesn't look like the sort of farm that would have an open slurry lagoon, some of the old farms in Wales are a death trap but this one looks modern.
		
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It is a meat waste product slurry, so I think being regularly topped, up and think modern. It is identified in aerial shots at the start of this thread.


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## PeterNatt (26 February 2021)

I would suggest that this was a tragic accident to a horse that had an amazing career.  The emergency evacuation of the horses from the stables would have been the priority and it would appear that they were all safely taken away from the fire.  What this sad incident highlights is that we must all be aware of the dangers on our and adjoining properties and to ensure that we take precautions that in the event of an emergency evacuation there is no chance of animals coming in contact with them.  I feel very sorry for the horse, the owner of this wonderful horse and anyone that cared for this horse.  Hopefully we will all learn a lesson from this incident.


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## bouncing_ball (26 February 2021)

I have had several horses put to sleep, unless there is an insurance claim on value (and I rather suspect many top competition


PeterNatt said:



			I would suggest that this was a tragic accident to a horse that had an amazing career.  The emergency evacuation of the horses from the stables would have been the priority and it would appear that they were all safely taken away from the fire.  What this sad incident highlights is that we must all be aware of the dangers on our and adjoining properties and to ensure that we take precautions that in the event of an emergency evacuation there is no chance of animals coming in contact with them.  I feel very sorry for the horse, the owner of this wonderful horse and anyone that cared for this horse.  Hopefully we will all learn a lesson from this incident.
		
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But dont forget, the stud sent round baliffs to the owner of the dead horse, chasing unpaid livery bills. I think the horse dying in their care in such tragic circumstances, would negate chasing ANY unpaid livery bills.


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## Tiddlypom (26 February 2021)

PeterNatt said:



			Hopefully we will all learn a lesson from this incident.
		
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I think that many of us have.

Look elsewhere if you are looking for somewhere to send your mare or youngstock .


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## INDIA1999 (26 February 2021)

PeterNatt said:



			I would suggest that this was a tragic accident to a horse that had an amazing career.  The emergency evacuation of the horses from the stables would have been the priority and it would appear that they were all safely taken away from the fire.  What this sad incident highlights is that we must all be aware of the dangers on our and adjoining properties and to ensure that we take precautions that in the event of an emergency evacuation there is no chance of animals coming in contact with them.  I feel very sorry for the horse, the owner of this wonderful horse and anyone that cared for this horse.  Hopefully we will all learn a lesson from this incident.
		
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The story says that the stud admitted negligence rather than it being simply an accident. It would seem that the gate to the pit had been left open, the horse was panicking, it was turned out with no one checking the gate to the pit and then no one checked on the horse again until the following day. If you look on the owner's facebook page it says that it is pit with waste meat in it that's then spread on the grazing.


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## Archangel (26 February 2021)

bouncing_ball said:



			It is a meat waste product slurry, so I think being regularly topped, up and think modern. It is identified in aerial shots at the start of this thread.
		
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Thanks, I had missed that *tuts at self*. 
That is truly shocking and "someone left a gate open" wow.


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## Archangel (26 February 2021)

Annagain said:



			Why in Wales? We're not all backward hillbillies here - or the only place place where there are old farms. 

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Absolutely no offence meant towards Welsh farms.  I have one myself and often walk round thinking "there are so many ways to die here... "


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## Rowreach (26 February 2021)

Tiddlypom said:



			I think that many of us have.

Look elsewhere if you are looking for somewhere to send your mare or youngstock .
		
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And go and see it in person, don't just send your precious competition, breeding or young stock off to anywhere without looking at it first.


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## Barlow (26 February 2021)

Rowreach said:



			And go and see it in person, don't just send your precious competition, breeding or young stock off to anywhere without looking at it first.
		
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Agreed. YO went to see it in person and was worried by the number of young colts all housed in one barn together. Thought the risk of injury would be high given how densely packed they seemed. Staff seemed knowledgeable about how they were all bred and could pick out each one but just “piled too high” for YO’s liking. Ended up using a very small more local stud and very relieved to have done so now!!


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## honetpot (26 February 2021)

Tiddlypom said:



			But if there’s a body, especially one of such a valuable horse, a vet would be called out to confirm the cause of death. You wouldn’t just call the knacker man on his morning rounds and get him to cart the body off without getting the death signed off in some way, unless the owner OK’d it.
		
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  I am sorry if this is insensitive, but here goes. As soon as an animal dies it becomes waste, and has to be disposed of as waste, and like everything there are rules how it is disposed of. When your knacker or fallen stock come to collect there will be a charge, they are licensed and there should be a waste transfer note, and well as invoice, even if the animal goes for rendering. If you bury animals on your land there are certain rules, and for some animals you are unable to do this.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/fallen-stock
So I would be looking for some paperwork.


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## INDIA1999 (26 February 2021)

honetpot said:



			I am sorry if this is insensitive, but here goes. As soon as an animal dies it becomes waste, and has to be disposed of as waste, and like everything there are rules how it is disposed of. When your knacker or fallen stock come to collect there will be a charge, they are licensed and there should be a waste transfer note, and well as invoice, even if the animal goes for rendering. If you bury animals on your land there are certain rules, and for some animals you are unable to do this.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/fallen-stock
So I would be looking for some paperwork.
		
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In England that does not apply to horses so they can be buried without paperwork. That said, I do not know whether that would apply to leaving the poor horse in the lagoon. Presumably the lagoon was permitted to have certain types of meat and waste product in it ie certain categories of stuff - so nothing that would be from those parts of a cow that can have bovine spongiform encephalopathy. Or at least I would hope so given that it is being spread on grazing land. The whole idea of spreading anything from an abattoir or poultry factory on land for horses, cows, sheep, deer or pigs seems completely abhorrent to me because surely it must be utterly rotten. Or am I being a big wus about it?


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## Rowreach (26 February 2021)

The idea of abattoir waste as fertiliser turns me as well, but apparently it's the next big thing in UK farming.

However it results in higher levels of selenium which I wouldn't have thought was great for a stud farm.

I remember when sewage sludge was used, great piles of it left at gateways and then spread - we tried to find out which fields had been done before the hunting season as the resulting "mud" would burn the hair and skin of the horses that went through it.  You'd wash them off thoroughly after hunting, and the next day you could see exactly where the mud had been as the skin reacted.


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## Velcrobum (26 February 2021)

This


Rowreach said:



			The idea of abattoir waste as fertiliser turns me as well, but apparently it's the next big thing in UK farming.

However it results in higher levels of selenium which I wouldn't have thought was great for a stud farm.

I remember when sewage sludge was used, great piles of it left at gateways and then spread - we tried to find out which fields had been done before the hunting season as the resulting "mud" would burn the hair and skin of the horses that went through it.  You'd wash them off thoroughly after hunting, and the next day you could see exactly where the mud had been as the skin reacted.
		
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Still using sewage sludge around here there is a huge pile of it about half a mile from me a couple of days ago.


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## INDIA1999 (26 February 2021)

Velcrobum said:



			This



Still using sewage sludge around here there is a huge pile of it about half a mile from me a couple of days ago.
		
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Do you mean from human sewage??


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## ycbm (26 February 2021)

INDIA1999 said:



			Do you mean from human sewage??
		
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yes , treated sewage.  You used to be able to tell where it's been spread because tomato seeds survive passage through the human and sewage treatment.  It's safe and useful but farmers don't tend to shout about using it!
.


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## Rowreach (26 February 2021)

Having just had a little Google it seems that a quarter of the UK 's fertiliser needs will soon be met by using abattoir waste. Not sure how well that will sit with vegetarians and vegans, or me for that matter, along with the sewage sludge.


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## Velcrobum (26 February 2021)

Rowreach said:



			Having just had a little Google it seems that a quarter of the UK 's fertiliser needs will soon be met by using abattoir waste. Not sure how well that will sit with vegetarians and vegans, or me for that matter, along with the sewage sludge.
		
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The sewage sludge is treated and it ploughed in not used as a "top dressing" which is what abattoir waste is in this case used for. Slurry is normally sprayed and ploughed in. Soil organisms then break down the sludge or slurry, interestingly sewage sludge does not really smell but slurry can really whiff but as it is quickly ploughed in it is not an issue for long (unless an incomer to the countryside when suddenly the complaints start)


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## Chinchilla (26 February 2021)

ycbm said:



			yes , treated sewage.  You used to be able to tell where it's been spread because tomato seeds survive passage through the human and sewage treatment.  It's safe and useful but farmers don't tend to shout about using it!
.
		
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Some fields by my old school had this spread on them- the stench was awful for about two days before they ploughed it in!!


Edited to add as a vegetarian I really f#cking dislike the idea of abbatoir waste being used on fields


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## INDIA1999 (26 February 2021)

Rowreach said:



			Having just had a little Google it seems that a quarter of the UK 's fertiliser needs will soon be met by using abattoir waste. Not sure how well that will sit with vegetarians and vegans, or me for that matter, along with the sewage sludge.
		
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I wonder how much research there has been into that. Into the safety of that. Utterly mind-blowing when you think that 20 years ago this month cattle where being burnt on farmyard pyres across the country.


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## Rowreach (26 February 2021)

Velcrobum said:



			The sewage sludge is treated and it ploughed in not used as a "top dressing" which is what abattoir waste is in this case used for. Slurry is normally sprayed and ploughed in. Soil organisms then break down the sludge or slurry, interestingly sewage sludge does not really smell but slurry can really whiff but as it is quickly ploughed in it is not an issue for long (unless an incomer to the countryside when suddenly the complaints start)
		
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Yes I know, but it still has a dreadful effect on horses which are ridden through fields which have been treated with it, and presumably anything/one else it comes into contact with.

Anything applied to pasture is not ploughed in, it is dressed on top.  Living round here during slurry season is a ... joy   I've just had to take spare boiler suits up to the lads who are pumping slurry today and my car now stinks.

Sh1t as fertiliser doesn't really bother me, I use it in my garden, but I know where it has come from (horses) and it hasn't been doctored in any way.


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## ycbm (26 February 2021)

Rowreach said:



			Yes I know, but it still has a dreadful effect on horses which are ridden through fields which have been treated with it, and presumably anything/one else it comes into contact with.

Sh1t as fertiliser doesn't really bother me, I use it in my garden, but I know where it has come from (horses) and it hasn't been doctored in any way.
		
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I'm guessing that any fertiliser high in phosphates/nitrates/ammonia etc would do the same though,  including the artificial stuff?


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## Rowreach (26 February 2021)

ycbm said:



			I'm guessing that any fertiliser high in phosphates would do the same though,  including the artificial stuff?
		
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No.


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## Chinchilla (26 February 2021)

ycbm said:



			I'm guessing that any fertiliser high in phosphates would do the same though,  including the artificial stuff?
		
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No it wouldn't. The issue with it burning is nitrogenous compounds, I think.

Oh you edited 😅 yeah tho


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## ycbm (26 February 2021)

Chinchilla said:



			No it wouldn't. The issue with it burning is nitrogenous compounds, I think.
		
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Sorry Chinch I edited my post to include the nitrates and ammonia.

I looked up the guidance for solid fertilisers and they shouldn't be handled with bare hands, whatever their source. 
.


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## Flyermc (26 February 2021)

JaneSewell said:



			... you would think that would be a key part of the correspondence between us but it has never once been addressed. I have never been told how she was recovered, I have never seen a body, there was no veterinary report... nothing on her passport ... quite bizarre
		
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Im actually shocked!

I investigate accidents (human) as part of my job and i agree there are so many unanswered questions. Have they ever given you a 'chain of events?' the whole things is strange and i can completely see why you took to the media, id be digging to find out the truth if i was in your shoes!

I dont know your horse or the yard set-up, but was she in the burning barn or just turned out as she was nearby for a precaution? Does she normally panic in a field? Im just wondering that if she was just in a near by barn and just turned out as a precaution, why was she panicking? (im assuming as a dressage comp horse, she would have been very used to different yards, fields, handlers, stabled, routine, and busy environments?) and im presuming that she wouldnt have been asked to walked infront of a burning building (i doubt the fire peeps would allow that?) 
If she was in the burning barn, im assuming it wasnt 'very' on fire if someone was able to walk in, open the door, put a headcollar on and walk out (please bare in mind the amount of smoke)

Dont forget that the horse panicked in the field she was put in, then panicked through an open gate and then panicked so much that in daylight she panicked into a slurry pit that she was unable to get back out off on her own (this is a horse, not a small pony) and a slight slip, would have only put her near the edge?

How deep is the slurry pit? why had it just been filled (i think ive read that) in June? (would you fertilize grazing land in June?) i cant imagine that they are stocking-up incase of a shortage. 

The fire brigade were on site for 3 (i think i read?) days? might be worth talking to them and see if they witnessed anything?

Jane Sewell - i honestly hope you get some resolve as some point.


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## ester (26 February 2021)

INDIA1999 said:



			I wonder how much research there has been into that. Into the safety of that. Utterly mind-blowing when you think that 20 years ago this month cattle where being burnt on farmyard pyres across the country.
		
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Probably quite a lot, farming is a pretty high research area as plenty of funding.


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## Gloi (26 February 2021)

I'm not usually squeamish but this whole thread has horrified me.


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## Nanniegeegee (26 February 2021)

Rowreach said:



			my
		
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if I had known about the abattoir waste and the pit I wouldn’t have sent the two youngsters that I lost there, but unfortunately I didn’t and the stud didn’t tell me.


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## SOS (26 February 2021)

Chinchilla said:



			Edited to add as a vegetarian I really f#cking dislike the idea of abbatoir waste being used on fields
		
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Why? (Genuinely) Animals will always be slaughtered or need to be processed after death in some way. Surely using a by product of the meat industry is a good way to ensure every part of the animal that died for us is used.


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## Foxglove (26 February 2021)

Rowreach said:



			Having just had a little Google it seems that a quarter of the UK 's fertiliser needs will soon be met by using abattoir waste. Not sure how well that will sit with vegetarians and vegans, or me for that matter, along with the sewage sludge.
		
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It’s as if BSE never happened...


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## INDIA1999 (26 February 2021)

SOS said:



			Why? (Genuinely) Animals will always be slaughtered or need to be processed after death in some way. Surely using a by product of the meat industry is a good way to ensure every part of the animal that died for us is used.
		
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Isn't it the fact that it is being used on land for herbivores...  using every last scrap of the slaughtered animal created a national disaster 20 years ago.


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## moosea (26 February 2021)

PeterNatt said:



			I would suggest that this was a tragic accident to a horse that had an amazing career.  The emergency evacuation of the horses from the stables would have been the priority and it would appear that they were all safely taken away from the fire.  What this sad incident highlights is that we must all be aware of the dangers on our and adjoining properties and to ensure that we take precautions that in the event of an emergency evacuation there is no chance of animals coming in contact with them.  I feel very sorry for the horse, the owner of this wonderful horse and anyone that cared for this horse.  Hopefully we will all learn a lesson from this incident.
		
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I have no understanding how anyone could call this an accident. 
What is the point of evacuating horses if not to keep them safe???
The horses were not all 'safely taken away from the fire'. One horse was taken from the fire and left to drown overnight.
Outrageous that you think this was an accident. It was at best negligence.
The stud should have been investigated by HSE. God forbid a person had gone into this nightmare pit.
To then send baliffs to the owner over fees due for "caring" for her animal leaves me speechless. Almost as speechless as when I read someone saying it was an accident.


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## Chinchilla (26 February 2021)

[


SOS said:



			Why? (Genuinely) Animals will always be slaughtered or need to be processed after death in some way. Surely using a by product of the meat industry is a good way to ensure every part of the animal that died for us is used.
		
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Sorry I don't really want to have to justify my choices on here publicly I'm afraid i'll be torn to pieces 😬


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## Gingerwitch (26 February 2021)

SOS said:



			Why? (Genuinely) Animals will always be slaughtered or need to be processed after death in some way. Surely using a by product of the meat industry is a good way to ensure every part of the animal that died for us is used.
		
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Because its offensive to vegetarians who dont want to be part of the animal's slaughter..... do you really think a vegetarian wants to eat vegetables raised in the dregs of slaughtered animals ?


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## ycbm (26 February 2021)

Chinchilla said:



			Sorry I don't really want to have to justify my choices on here publicly I'm afraid i'll be torn to pieces 😬
		
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I'm a meat eater C and I get it.


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## JaneSewell (26 February 2021)

Roxylola said:



			I saw this on Facebook, bit disappointed that the BD page took it down and implied she was mud slinging and unjustified.
I felt she was quite reasonable in what she said. It's a terrible tragedy for her - slurry disposal is a huge danger; I remember when I first loaned a horse we rented stables on a dairy farm and the muck heap was a case of tipping your barrow off the top in to the slurry below, I was often up there alone and the thought of falling genuinely terrified me
		
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Thank you. The controller of Unofficial DB where it was taken down is Kelly Jewell ... as part of Equidance they have worked closely with Newton Stud and Elite Dressage and are clearly financially involved with them... not surprising that it was taken down several times!!


shortstuff99 said:



			It was also mentioned on the BD (unofficial) group that the editor at H&H had close ties to the stud and that is why it has never been mentioned.
		
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## JaneSewell (26 February 2021)

Roxylola said:



			I saw this on Facebook, bit disappointed that the BD page took it down and implied she was mud slinging and unjustified.
I felt she was quite reasonable in what she said. It's a terrible tragedy for her - slurry disposal is a huge danger; I remember when I first loaned a horse we rented stables on a dairy farm and the muck heap was a case of tipping your barrow off the top in to the slurry below, I was often up there alone and the thought of falling genuinely terrified me
		
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Thank you. The controller of Unofficial DB where it was taken down is Kelly Jewell ... as part of Equidance they have worked closely with Newton Stud and Elite Dressage and are clearly financially involved with them... not surprising that it was taken down several times!!


Palindrome said:



			Poor mare, it must have been terrifying. First the fire, then falling into a slurry pit.
		
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It is unimaginable!😢😢


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## Arzada (26 February 2021)

Gingerwitch said:



			Because its offensive to vegetarians who dont want to be part of the animal's slaughter..... do you really think a vegetarian wants to eat vegetables raised in the dregs of slaughtered animals ?
		
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Thank you


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## JaneSewell (26 February 2021)

ester said:



			Ah yes now you mention it I did know re. the meat products.
It seems no one has gone fully to court with them but taken settlements and signed NDAs
		
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The difficulty is that it is SO expensive to to get to Court ... they were insured - I was not... my costs before even getting to Court were £90,000 and would have been £350,000 if I had gone to court and lost! ... which I would have to pay personally. All my lawyer friends said that it totally depends on which judge you are allocated ... if they are anti horsey people... It is genuinely so unfair!


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## Flyermc (26 February 2021)

JaneSewell said:



			The difficulty is that it is SO expensive to to get to Court ... they were insured - I was not... my costs before even getting to Court were £90,000 and would have been £350,000 if I had gone to court and lost! ... which I would have to pay personally. All my lawyer friends said that it totally depends on which judge you are allocated ... if they are anti horsey people... It is genuinely so unfair!
		
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its so sad when money 'talks'


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## Fandabbydozy (26 February 2021)

Auslander said:



			I think suggesting that there's some sort of conspiracy theory may be taking it a bit far. Their reputation is important to them, and having a valuable horse drown in an insufficiently secured slurry pit on their land, whilst under their care is indefensible. You'd think they'd be desperately trying to cover up the cause of death, rather than admitting that it happened.
		
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JaneSewell said:



			Thank you. The controller of Unofficial DB where it was taken down is Kelly Jewell ... as part of Equidance they have worked closely with Newton Stud and Elite Dressage and are clearly financially involved with them... not surprising that it was taken down several times!!


It is unimaginable!😢😢
		
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Nanniegeegee said:



			if I had known about the abattoir waste and the pit I wouldn’t have sent the two youngsters that I lost there, but unfortunately I didn’t and the stud didn’t tell me.
		
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I don’t think the stud told any clients about the abattoir meat sludge pit nor the fact they spread it on the land. I was never told & would never have put my mares & foals at risk had I known.


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## Arzada (26 February 2021)

INDIA1999 said:



			Isn't it the fact that it is being used on land for herbivores...  using every last scrap of the slaughtered animal created a national disaster 20 years ago.
		
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It is still a disaster for those people with vCJD (and their families). Apparently it can remain dormant for decades and is untreatable and incurable.


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## ycbm (26 February 2021)

JaneSewell said:



			The difficulty is that it is SO expensive to to get to Court ... they were insured - I was not... my costs before even getting to Court were £90,000 and would have been £350,000 if I had gone to court and lost! ... which I would have to pay personally. All my lawyer friends said that it totally depends on which judge you are allocated ... if they are anti horsey people... It is genuinely so unfair!
		
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And you can win and they bankrupt themselves so they don't have to pay you,  as happened to fiends of mine.


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## JaneSewell (26 February 2021)

Kamikaze said:



			So did horse get away from a handler? Or did it escape from a field? Ie HOW did it land up in the pit. And why on earth was the pit not secured so a horse couldn’t get to it? We all
Know the scrapes horses can get in to but what happened?
		
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I don't believe she got away from her handler ....The stud’s defence says “By a most unfortunate and regrettable oversight, the Claimant’s employee who evacuated Cassie into the said field failed to check that the gate to the slurry lagoon was closed and secured”. The lagoon measures approx 40m x 100m and she was apparently not discovered until the next day...


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## palo1 (26 February 2021)

Arzada said:



			It is still a disaster for those people with vCJD (and their families). Apparently it can remain dormant for decades and is untreatable and incurable.
		
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Yes, it is dire.  Mark Douglas of Chamfron stud who bred fabulous performance criollo horses died of VCJD at a young age.  His illness came virtually without warning and scientists understand that it may lay dormant for decades in the human body.  You would never want to recreate a situation where this could happen again.


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## ycbm (26 February 2021)

JaneSewell said:



			failed to check that the gate to the slurry lagoon was closed and secured”. ...
		
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How could it EVER not have been unless a vehicle was accessing it at the time?!


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## Gingerwitch (26 February 2021)

ycbm said:



			Now could it EVER not have been unless a vehicle was accessing it at the time?!
		
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But how does anyone know if no body was found ?


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## JaneSewell (26 February 2021)

Arzada said:



			So basically the 2 yo filly was seen once by a vet in the four months of lameness and pain and twice in the filly's final 10 days of agony even though there is a resident vet based at the stud who does not charge call out fees to resident horses:

'Newton Stud is partnered with a local equine-specialist practice, Equus Vets, to provide top quality care for the horses at the stud. Treatment is provided with no call-out fees for horses resident at the stud, offering our clients the best possible value. Our stud vet is based on-site ...' http://www.newtonstud.co.uk/breeding.html

Click to expand...

Arzada That is absolutely correct ... she died in agony apparently despite there being a resident vet based at the stud!


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## doodle (26 February 2021)

JaneSewell said:



			I don't believe she got away from her handler ....The stud’s defence says “By a most unfortunate and regrettable oversight, the Claimant’s employee who evacuated Cassie into the said field failed to check that the gate to the slurry lagoon was closed and secured”. The lagoon measures approx 40m x 100m and she was apparently not discovered until the next day...
		
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I have been following this thread and couldn’t quite get my head around what has come out since my reply. I am so sorry this happened to you. I don’t have the words to even start comprehending what the stud did.


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## INDIA1999 (26 February 2021)

Gingerwitch said:



			But how does anyone know if no body was found ?
		
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I thought a body was found but not recovered or am I getting confused?


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## JaneSewell (26 February 2021)

ycbm said:



			How could it EVER not have been unless a vehicle was accessing it at the time?!
		
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PRECISELY!!


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## JaneSewell (26 February 2021)

Kamikaze said:



			I have been following this thread and couldn’t quite get my head around what has come out since my reply. I am so sorry this happened to you. I don’t have the words to even start comprehending what the stud did.
		
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Thank you ... it is incomprehensible!


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## SOS (26 February 2021)

Probably asking such a question on a thread that has got people very emotive was a bad idea. I promise I asked the question as a genuine one, like I said in my post. I was intrigued to see the posters response, not to jump down their throat but just to find out. Im not interested in others responses, I asked it to see why it made them personally so angry. Take that how you like, it really was not meant to cause offensive.


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## Chinchilla (26 February 2021)

SOS said:



			Probably asking such a question on a thread that has got people very emotive was a bad idea. I promise I asked the question as a genuine one, like I said in my post. I was intrigued to see the posters response, not to jump down their throat but just to find out. Im not interested in others responses, I asked it to see why it made them personally so angry. Take that how you like, it really was not meant to cause offensive. 

Click to expand...

I didn't take offense, I just didn't want to be attacked for my views by others - even if you wouldn't have a go, there's no guarantee others would do the same.


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## Flyermc (26 February 2021)

JaneSewell said:



			I don't believe she got away from her handler ....The stud’s defence says “By a most unfortunate and regrettable oversight, the Claimant’s employee who evacuated Cassie into the said field failed to check that the gate to the slurry lagoon was closed and secured”. The lagoon measures approx 40m x 100m and she was apparently not discovered until the next day...
		
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did they mention how deep it was? the surface area wouldnt make much difference, its more the depth and if its liquid waste or just 'deep ground' im just thinking with it being open, moisture will evaporate if there was afew sunny days before hand. 

Horses can get out of fairly deep water (i know it wasnt completely liquid based) but surely she could have only slipped in?


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## Gingerwitch (26 February 2021)

JaneSewell said:



			Arzada That is absolutely correct ... she died in agony apparently despite there being a resident vet based at the stud!
		
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Struck off or covered up ?


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## INDIA1999 (26 February 2021)

Flyermc said:



			did they mention how deep it was? the surface area wouldnt make much difference, its more the depth and if its liquid waste or just 'deep ground' im just thinking with it being open, moisture will evaporate if there was afew sunny days before hand.

Horses can get out of fairly deep water (i know it wasnt completely liquid based) but surely she could have only slipped in?
		
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Did you see the photographs someone posted earlier in the forum?


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## Gingerwitch (26 February 2021)

SOS said:



			Probably asking such a question on a thread that has got people very emotive was a bad idea. I promise I asked the question as a genuine one, like I said in my post. I was intrigued to see the posters response, not to jump down their throat but just to find out. Im not interested in others responses, I asked it to see why it made them personally so angry. Take that how you like, it really was not meant to cause offensive. 

Click to expand...

Sorry but when someone mentions they are a vegetarian does it really need spelling out why animal matter being used in the production of their food upsets them.


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## SOS (26 February 2021)

Gingerwitch said:



			Sorry but when someone mentions they are a vegetarian does it really need spelling out why animal matter being used in the production of their food upsets them.
		
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I’m not going to bite as I don’t like making enemies on this forum and avoid confrontational posters. It’s all in my original post.


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## Gingerwitch (26 February 2021)

Jane I am sorry to ask you this question but how do they know this is what happens if
A. She was not seen struggling and as such no rescue attempt was made because it was not seen. Or if it she was seen struggling surely a rescue attempt was made and actions recorded 
B. If it is assumed she was lost in this god awful manner but not seen during the issue, how could they prove this was the poor mares fate if her body was not recovered.
I am do sorry for your loss and I know how painful this thread and my questions are. So may i apologise for any upset I may cause.


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## Flyermc (26 February 2021)

INDIA1999 said:



			Did you see the photographs someone posted earlier in the forum?
		
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no i havent, ill have a look


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## Tiddlypom (26 February 2021)

Flyermc said:



			no i havent, ill have a look
		
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I’ve bumped the pics for you.


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## Flyermc (26 February 2021)

Gingerwitch said:



			Jane I am sorry to ask you this question but how do they know this is what happens if
A. She was not seen struggling and as such no rescue attempt was made because it was not seen. Or if it she was seen struggling surely a rescue attempt was made and actions recorded
B. If it is assumed she was lost in this god awful manner but not seen during the issue, how could they prove this was the poor mares fate if her body was not recovered.
I am do sorry for your loss and I know how painful this thread and my questions are. So may i apologise for any upset I may cause.
		
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exactly - could the fire have been started by arson with the view to steal the horse? im not saying the stud/staff were involved, but if the stud did have a fire evacuation plan, its foreseeable that the mare would be in a field 'somewhere' and staff distracted!


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## Gingerwitch (26 February 2021)

Flyermc said:



			exactly - could the fire have been started by arson with the view to steal the horse? im not saying the stud/staff were involved, but if the stud did have a fire evacuation plan, its foreseeable that the mare would be in a field 'somewhere' and staff distracted!
		
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I don't think that would ge viable.... more like some awful incident occurred and fire was set to cover it up.


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## teapot (26 February 2021)

Zoom earth offers far more recent aerial shot - has some interesting tracks from gateway to pool, and a poss fence line.

https://zoom.earth/#view=50.824861,-3.868576,20z


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## INDIA1999 (26 February 2021)

teapot said:



			Do we def know the slurry pool is that point on the map that looks like an old arena shape wise?

Just that if you walk down the road it's not there and those fields have been ploughed...
		
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That's what I thought but then I realised that the Streetview is really really old and winter.  The google earth is more recent and summer.


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## Flyermc (26 February 2021)

Tiddlypom said:



			I’ve bumped the pics for you.
View attachment 66770


View attachment 66771


View attachment 66772

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Thank you

my first through was that in the emergency/rush to get the horses way from the fire, they managed to get them to a field which was a good walk away, next to what i think is a road(?)


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## Rowreach (26 February 2021)

Oh for goodness sake. It’s not an episode of Emmerdale.


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## teapot (26 February 2021)

Rowreach said:



			Oh for goodness sake. It’s not an episode of Emmerdale.
		
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No it isn't - just utterly baffled by having a slurry pool that close to grazing


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## Flyermc (26 February 2021)

Rowreach said:



			Oh for goodness sake. It’s not an episode of Emmerdale.
		
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I know what you mean, but if Newton stud (im assuming) is the buildings near the red flag on the map, how many fields would you want to pass before turning a horse out in an emergency?


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## INDIA1999 (26 February 2021)

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2058495280852103



Drone footage.  There's a huge barn with hole in the roof so that must be the one with the fire. What looks like the lagoon is in the distance at 12pm with a big bank to one side??


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## Rowreach (26 February 2021)

Flyermc said:



			I know what you mean, but if Newton stud (im assuming) is the buildings near the red flag on the map, how many fields would you want to pass before turning a horse out in an emergency?
		
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Yeah I agree with you, it was the sudden rather soap opera descent into speculation about the fire a few posts back that caused me to 🙄🙄


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## JaneSewell (26 February 2021)

ycbm said:



			And you can win and they bankrupt themselves so they don't have to pay you,  as happened to fiends of mine.
		
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... that is what I was afraid of ... which is why I joined in Eddie Hosegood who owned the land and operated the lagoon on a commercial basis...


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## INDIA1999 (26 February 2021)

JaneSewell said:



			... that is what I was afraid of ... which is why I joined in Eddie Hosegood who owned the land and operated the lagoon on a commercial basis...
		
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Bit shocked at this video.  Think it might be the barn which had the fire

https://fb.watch/3V8Deub_pC/


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## JaneSewell (26 February 2021)

INDIA1999 said:






__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2058495280852103



Drone footage.  There's a huge barn with hole in the roof so that must be the one with the fire. What looks like the lagoon is in the distance at 12pm with a big bank to one side??
		
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I believe the lagoon is 2 huge fields away ... the 'in her panic' narrative makes no sense whatsoever...


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## JaneSewell (26 February 2021)

INDIA1999 said:



			Bit shocked at this video.

https://fb.watch/3V8Deub_pC/

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Oh wow ... pile them high!!!... no wonder...


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## Frumpoon (26 February 2021)

JaneSewell said:



			I believe the lagoon is 2 huge fields away ... the 'in her panic' narrative makes no sense whatsoever...
		
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I’m so sorry for your loss Jane. I think you’ve been remarkably composed and dignified in this. The whole scenario doesn’t really stand up to scrutiny or make sense. What do you think really happened?

I know what I think but that is only speculation of course


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## INDIA1999 (26 February 2021)

JaneSewell said:



			Oh wow ... pile them high!!!... no wonder...
		
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https://fb.watch/3V8Deub_pC/

There must be at least 25 youngsters in there....  I can't really believe anyone would do that with them in there.


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## ycbm (26 February 2021)

INDIA1999 said:



https://fb.watch/3V8Deub_pC/

There must be at least 25 youngsters in there....  I can't really believe anyone would do that with them in there.
		
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25? More like 60!


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## JaneSewell (26 February 2021)

INDIA1999 said:



			That's what I thought but then I realised that the Streetview is really really old and winter.  The google earth is more recent and summer.
		
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This is it...


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## Arzada (26 February 2021)

INDIA1999 said:



https://fb.watch/3V8Deub_pC/

There must be at least 25 youngsters in there....  I can't really believe anyone would do that with them in there.
		
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I never imagined that scenario as part of youngstock livery. The place is run on an industrial scale


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## Arzada (26 February 2021)

JaneSewell said:



			This is it...
		
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I expected it to be fenced and maybe like the diagram in the HSE guidance https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/ais9.pdf


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## JaneSewell (26 February 2021)

Frumpoon said:



			I’m so sorry for your loss Jane. I think you’ve been remarkably composed and dignified in this. The whole scenario doesn’t really stand up to scrutiny or make sense. What do you think really happened?

I know what I think but that is only speculation of course
		
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Thank you ... I genuinely don't know... I can only rely on what Newton Stud have told me ... and that has changed from what they were saying during the court case ... It honestly doesn't make sense to say that "in her panic she ran through the gate..." ... she was apparently not found until the next day... if she had been in a panic then surely the staff would have been there and tried to save her... not just left her until the next day...? and there is no narrative whatsoever around retrieving her body, a veterinary inspection or what ultimately apparently happened to her body...??


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## McFluff (26 February 2021)

This whole situation is horrendous. Heart goes out to all those who’ve lost horses. Legal cases won’t even consider the emotional losses. 

I must admit that I wouldn’t expect an animal waste slurry pit to be part of the offering described below (from their own website). 

_The stud is run by Lorna Wilson and Eddie Hosegood as part of a large beef, sheep and arable farm. Due to our farming activities the horses have access to the best possible quality pasture and forage. In addition, we are in the fortunate position of being able to provide the horses with hard feed where a high proportion of the ingredients are grown on site. Not only are we comfortable in the knowledge that our stock has the best grazing, feed, forage and bedding possible but also have the added assurance that it does not contain any artificial or potentially harmful additives._

I also would expect the best and speediest vet attention from somewhere that actually owns their own vet company. 

The learning for us all has to be to look beyond the glossy image and ask to see risk assessments and safe systems of work. 

So sad, and so needless. Surely it costs less to have robust risk assessments and training and safe systems of work than to resolve legal disputes...


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## JaneSewell (26 February 2021)

Arzada said:



			I never imagined that scenario as part of youngstock livery. The place is run on an industrial scale
		
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Yes it seems it is...


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## McFluff (26 February 2021)

INDIA1999 said:



*Interesting spiel in light of the fact that they spread abattoir waste on their land...   !!!!!*

Click to expand...

That was the bit that jumped out at me.


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## shortstuff99 (26 February 2021)

I'm not sure the mass production of horses sits well with me if I'm honest. 

(I also hate the mass production of other animals and I would hate for horses to end up the same way).


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## horsimous (26 February 2021)

What were they doing with the tractor?


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## Frumpoon (26 February 2021)

JaneSewell said:



			Thank you ... I genuinely don't know... I can only rely on what Newton Stud have told me ... and that has changed from what they were saying during the court case ... It honestly doesn't make sense to say that "in her panic she ran through the gate..." ... she was apparently not found until the next day... if she had been in a panic then surely the staff would have been there and tried to save her... not just left her until the next day...? and there is no narrative whatsoever around retrieving her body, a veterinary inspection or what ultimately apparently happened to her body...??
		
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The subtext I am reading is that the fire happened at night...is that correct?


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## INDIA1999 (26 February 2021)

Frumpoon said:



			The subtext I am reading is that the fire happened at night...is that correct?
		
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The news article I found about it said it was a July evening about 7pm-ish


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## Frumpoon (26 February 2021)

INDIA1999 said:



			The news article I found about it said it was a July evening about 7pm-ish
		
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When it is light for at least another 2 hours.....????? Clearly this place is well supplied with young stock running into the hundreds but possibly the most (financially) valuable horse on the premises goes heading off towards a death trap and nobody goes after it and there is no physical evidence of mortality???? Nope I don’t believe a word of this story....


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## JaneSewell (26 February 2021)

McFluff said:



			This whole situation is horrendous. Heart goes out to all those who’ve lost horses. Legal cases won’t even consider the emotional losses.

I must admit that I wouldn’t expect an animal waste slurry pit to be part of the offering described below (from their own website).

_The stud is run by Lorna Wilson and Eddie Hosegood as part of a large beef, sheep and arable farm. Due to our farming activities the horses have access to the best possible quality pasture and forage. In addition, we are in the fortunate position of being able to provide the horses with hard feed where a high proportion of the ingredients are grown on site. Not only are we comfortable in the knowledge that our stock has the best grazing, feed, forage and bedding possible but also have the added assurance that it does not contain any artificial or potentially harmful additives._

I also would expect the best and speediest vet attention from somewhere that actually owns their own vet company.

The learning for us all has to be to look beyond the glossy image and ask to see risk assessments and safe systems of work.

So sad, and so needless. Surely it costs less to have robust risk assessments and training and safe systems of work than to resolve legal disputes...
		
Click to expand...

It is frankly horrendous ... and there are so many unanswered issues... At Newton Stud the horses do indeed seem to be being 'farmed' ... and that is not what most people think they are paying for for their beloved horses...


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## AGDENHALL (27 February 2021)

horsimous said:



			What were they doing with the tractor?
		
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Looks as though it is firing straw bedding into the barn


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## Red-1 (27 February 2021)

AGDENHALL said:



			Looks as though it is firing straw bedding into the barn
		
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I must admit, that video would have put me off sending a horse there at all. The bedding is dusty, could contain stones. Far from being 'proofed' of th tractor, as they claim, the horses took terrified.

There are too many horses, for me, in that area. I would also worry about the posts within the running area, too easy for an accident from running into a post (horses are like that) or being kicked. Too much likelihood of dust inhalation. 

I too hate the idea of horse farming on this scale. How on earth would they spot thrush? 

As for the slurry pit, the fencing on the more recent photo looks even worse. 

I did see somewhere that the horses were turned onto the lane. The tracks to the pit do go from the lane to the pit, through a field. I dare say the person who operates the machinery for spreading slurry on an industrial scale is not a 'horse person' and so has been lax with gates. 

The whole set-up looks shoddy. Money spent on the top dressing - yes. Time spent on the details and individual attention - no.


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## Tiddlypom (27 February 2021)

INDIA1999 said:



			Drone footage.  There's a huge barn with hole in the roof so that must be the one with the fire. What looks like the lagoon is in the distance at 12pm with a big bank to one side??
		
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Yes, and that tallies with the Google maps aerial shot.


And the video that the stud proudly posts of the bedding being blown into the youngstock barn, by a huge tractor, with frightened youngsters milling around .




No competent outfit would do such a thing. Terrible and dangerous practice. The airborne dust and spores flying around within the barn, the huge tractor in a building with youngstock, the danger of foreign bodies such as stones being fired at the horses.

Wrong, wrong, wrong.


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## rabatsa (27 February 2021)

Anyone who has been near a straw chopping/bedding machine will know how much dust is thrown into the air.  It does not all land immediately and certainly triggers my asthma.  To have youngstock exposed to that on a daily basis for weeks on end does not bode well for their ongoing respiritory health.

Having the tractor in with the animals is very bad practice, everywhere I have worked where machine bedding down happens the tractor has been driven along outside the pens.


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## OldNag (27 February 2021)

Golly, the tractor thing would be enough to put me off. That's awful.


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## GoldenWillow (27 February 2021)

I had read this thread with horror, there is so much wrong and in so many different ways. 

I do feel qualified to comment on the tractor video, these produce so much dust and spores it is common for the tractor driver to wear a mask, and like rabatsa, everywhere I have been with them being used the tractor drives along side the pens, never within them.


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## meleeka (27 February 2021)

It seems to be it’s all down to marketing.  People are sending their horses there because they perceive they are the experts.  The reality seems to be very different and I’m surprised people don’t go and see things like that barn crammed with youngsters.


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## Rowreach (27 February 2021)

meleeka said:



			It seems to be it’s all down to marketing.  People are sending their horses there because they perceive they are the experts.  The reality seems to be very different and I’m surprised people don’t go and see things like that barn crammed with youngsters.
		
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That barn video was 5 years ago. Even if people don't bother visiting somewhere before sending their competition horse/broodmare/youngstock to a yard, surely you'd do some research online, and that video alone would make me cross them off my list.

A few years ago I saw some footage from the yard of an Olympic rider (and a favourite on this forum) and it showed the inside of the stables - deep clean bedding and the most disgustingly filthy feed mangers imaginable! And that told me everything I needed to know about how the yard was really managed.


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## tristar (27 February 2021)

shortstuff99 said:



			I'm not sure the mass production of horses sits well with me if I'm honest. 

(I also hate the mass production of other animals and I would hate for horses to end up the same way).
		
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it takes a brilliant set up to do it decently, i lived next door to world champion of show jumping for four years, he had 200 horses, a top rider and the right set up for his valuable breeding stock, but then of course he is a horseman and  specializes in horses.

diversification into horses on farms always sounds dodgy, and needs a severe upgrading of knowledge and dedication and attitude to be successful, horses are a highly specialized area with multiple needs

commercialization is not for me either, i see horses as less rather than more and time put into the few really good horses that you might breed or buy where their training is concerned as the best commercial investment ultimately.

so sad  for anyone who has lost a horse, but surely on some level could you not see through these people?


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## tristar (27 February 2021)

Rowreach said:



			That barn video was 5 years ago. Even if people don't bother visiting somewhere before sending their competition horse/broodmare/youngstock to a yard, surely you'd do some research online, and that video alone would make me cross them off my list.

A few years ago I saw some footage from the yard of an Olympic rider (and a favourite on this forum) and it showed the inside of the stables - deep clean bedding and the most disgustingly filthy feed mangers imaginable! And that told me everything I needed to know about how the yard was really managed.
		
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exactly, i have a five second evaluation button


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## Chinchilla (27 February 2021)

Our local farm has a machine like that for bedding down their cattle, and to use it they shut the animals into the yard area and then the tractor drives down the central track between two barns and sprays the fresh straw pellets in. The operator wears a mask to do it. This is a mass production farm - arable and beef across circa 1000 acres iirc. And these are beef cattle worth about £400per head, not sports horses worth many thousands.


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## INDIA1999 (27 February 2021)

Found this on BSJA


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## Arzada (27 February 2021)

Red-1 said:



			I must admit, that video would have put me off sending a horse there at all. The bedding is dusty, could contain stones. Far from being 'proofed' of th tractor, as they claim, the horses took terrified.
...
The whole set-up looks shoddy. Money spent on the top dressing - yes. Time spent on the details and individual attention - no.
		
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Great post Red-1. The mares in the background are also very concerned by the straw etc firing. There appears not to be a great deal of ventilation in that barn so I imagine that the vile diesel fumes hang around for ages.


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## Arzada (27 February 2021)

tristar said:



			so sad  for anyone who has lost a horse, but surely on some level could you not see through these people?
		
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I've been taken in by people. Naturally, I think we want to believe the best of others and eg is how scams etc succeed. Witness good people being taken in by online and telephone scams etc. It would surprise me if most people haven't been taken in by something/someone at some point in their lives. I was taken in by a couple of 'natural horsepeople'. I use the word 'horsepeople' loosely. Luckily not for long. Shame means that I've never spoken of it to anyone. Others thought they were amazing. Maybe this thread will enable other clients speak about their experiences of Newton Stud. A bit like the #metoo movement. Once one person speaks out others may follow.


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## Gingerwitch (27 February 2021)

OldNag said:



			Golly, the tractor thing would be enough to put me off. That's awful.
		
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But the owners of these were commenting on it.... oh look is that one mine .... anyone else would have been that had not better be happening with mine.


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## Tiddlypom (27 February 2021)

Tbh, the video of the straw being fired within the barn of scared foals is something you’d expect to see on a Newton Stud exposé page, not one put up by the stud to promote itself.

Someone comments about the dust. There isn’t any, apparently. Though   the dust arising from the straw throwing is clearly seen on the video in the atmosphere in the barn.



Someone else muses that they’d thought of doing similar themselves, but were worried about the danger of stones. No one replies to that.


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## milliepops (27 February 2021)

Tiddlypom said:



			Tbh, the video of the straw being fired within the barn of scared foals is something you’d expect to see on a Newton Stud exposé page, not one put up by the stud to promote itself.

Someone comments about the dust. There isn’t any, apparently. Though   the dust arising from the straw throwing is clearly seen on the video in the atmosphere in the barn.


Someone else muses that they’d thought of doing similar themselves, but were worried about the danger of stones. No one replies to that.
		
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yeah one of OH's friends sells a machine that is similar but designed in a way that happens to avoid the issue of stones getting fired through the air.  he said that there have been examples of stones going through barn walls  

When i first showed him the video he chuckled and said oh they won't be afraid of machines, then I said that's a barn of sports horse youngsters at a stud that takes them for livery etc and... yeah... no more chuckling. I can't imagine what they were thinking doing that (let alone posting it).


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## Gingerwitch (27 February 2021)

Tiddlypom said:



			Tbh, the video of the straw being fired within the barn of scared foals is something you’d expect to see on a Newton Stud exposé page, not one put up by the stud to promote itself.

Someone comments about the dust. There isn’t any, apparently. Though   the dust arising from the straw throwing is clearly seen on the video in the atmosphere in the barn.

View attachment 66802

Someone else muses that they’d thought of doing similar themselves, but were worried about the danger of stones. No one replies to that.
		
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My last bale of straw had a metal spring and a pretty big stick in it. Hopefully that would have stopped the machine before brong flung out.  I was shocked at the number of youngsters in that barn it was more akin to food production than the nursery of young well bred horses.
Lets hope when anyone posts that hirse needs to go to youngstock livery its added to with the tag line, but I will pm you a place to avoid.


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## JaneSewell (27 February 2021)

Roxylola said:



			I saw this on Facebook, bit disappointed that the BD page took it down and implied she was mud slinging and unjustified.
I felt she was quite reasonable in what she said. It's a terrible tragedy for her - slurry disposal is a huge danger; I remember when I first loaned a horse we rented stables on a dairy farm and the muck heap was a case of tipping your barrow off the top in to the slurry below, I was often up there alone and the thought of falling genuinely terrified me
		
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Thank you. I believe the controller of Unofficial DB where it was taken down is Kelly Jewell ... as part of Equidance they have worked closely with Newton Stud and Elite Dressage and are clearly financially involved with them... not surprising that it was taken down several times!!


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## ycbm (27 February 2021)

That's my problem with the 60+ weanlings (?)  in that barn.  It simply isn't possible to check whether each one is healthy and sound.  
.


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## sherry90 (27 February 2021)

JaneSewell said:



			[Content removed]
		
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I am so sorry Jane that you’ve had to endure this and not once but three times in the case of another lost youngster and one sick one as a result of their clearly inadequate care.
It’s utterly appalling that no body was ever recovered - what is NS reason for this? Did they just not bother?
Surely after this, no one will be sending horses there in the future? How can they ever be trusted?


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## doodle (27 February 2021)

sherry90 said:



			Surely after this, no one will be sending horses there in the future? How can they ever be trusted?
		
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Which is why they wanted Jane to sign a gagging order which she quite rightly refused to do.


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## CanteringCarrot (27 February 2021)

Yeah, like I said I don't get the NDA's/Gags...unless you're shady and have something to hide. NDA's do have their place in various industries (as I previously mentioned) but don't quite fit here.

If you don't like the consequences of your own actions, that's on you. People are free to speak the truth.


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## ycbm (27 February 2021)

Chinchilla said:



			I thought they looked older than weanlings.
Horrified at the thought of ET recipients being subjected to that too - sometimes they are only on loan to the stud - so people may have sent their unrideable mares there to carry embryos hoping for a peaceful idyllic retirement for them, if they believe the marketing spiel on the website, and they get treated like that. Very sad imho.
	View attachment 66814

Click to expand...

They are charging £750 for the temporary use of a mare they have been given for free,  plus livery, or £1500 if you take the mare away to foal. 

Nice money if you can get it!


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## Chinchilla (27 February 2021)

ycbm said:



			They are charging £750 for the temporary use of a mare they have been given for free,  plus livery, or £1500 if you take the mare away to foal.

Nice money if you can get it!
		
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Wonder who pays the vet bills when aforesaid mare gets r. Equi or is shot by flying debris from one of their machines?!?!


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## Gingerwitch (27 February 2021)

Chinchilla said:



			Wonder who pays the vet bills when aforesaid mare gets r. Equi or is shot by flying debris from one of their machines?!?!
		
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Dont be silly. It's the person whom has paid for the foal.....and they probably will charge the owner of the free mare too. They seem to be an organisation that us only interested in kerching. They probably put an uplift and admin charges on the vets bills too.


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## CanteringCarrot (27 February 2021)

ycbm said:



			They are charging £750 for the temporary use of a mare they have been given for free,  plus livery, or £1500 if you take the mare away to foal.

Nice money if you can get it!
		
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Was wondering if I read that right!


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## Chinchilla (27 February 2021)

Gingerwitch said:



			Dont be silly. It's the person whom has paid for the foal.....and they probably will charge the owner of the free mare too. They seem to be an organisation that us only interested in kerching. They probably put an uplift and admin charges on the vets bills too.
		
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I was being sarcastic ffs, not 'being silly'. Just pointing out that NS are making copious quantities of money on mares they have been gifted and they won't be paying when their own negligence leads to them coming to harm.


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## Gingerwitch (27 February 2021)

Chinchilla said:



			I was being sarcastic ffs, not 'being silly'. Just pointing out that NS are making copious quantities of money on mares they have been gifted and they won't be paying when their own negligence leads to them coming to harm.
		
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I was being sarcastic too about newton and their money grabbing ways. I was agreeing with you !


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## ycbm (27 February 2021)

Chinchilla said:



			I was being sarcastic ffs, not 'being silly'. Just pointing out that NS are making copious quantities of money on mares they have been gifted and they won't be paying when their own negligence leads to them coming to harm.
		
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GW was agreeing with you C. 
.


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## Chinchilla (27 February 2021)

Oh sorry ok 

Need to step back from emotive thread for a minute apologies


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## scats (27 February 2021)

The more I hear and see of this place, the more horrified I am.


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## ycbm (27 February 2021)

I would certainly want to see that one  trotted up, India.  How on earth can you check that number of yearlings by driving through them without even moving them.  I see meat sheep farmed with more care.
.


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## daffy44 (27 February 2021)

Jane, I am so, so sorry for your losses, and I think you have been so brave in speaking out and getting justice for your beautiful horses, I hope your actions prevent other horses from suffering.


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## Flyermc (27 February 2021)

edited it - quote didnt work

Neither, they dont seem to be to 'hot' on getting vets, they probably just leave it and 'hope' for the best!!


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## Flyermc (27 February 2021)

Gingerwitch said:



			Dont be silly. It's the person whom has paid for the foal.....and they probably will charge the owner of the free mare too. They seem to be an organisation that us only interested in kerching. They probably put an uplift and admin charges on the vets bills too.
		
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Neither, they dont seem to be to 'hot' on getting vets, they probably just leave it and 'hope' for the best!!


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## Flyermc (27 February 2021)

Tiddlypom said:



			Yes, and that tallies with the Google maps aerial shot.
View attachment 66783

And the video that the stud proudly posts of the bedding being blown into the youngstock barn, by a huge tractor, with frightened youngsters milling around .

View attachment 66784


No competent outfit would do such a thing. Terrible and dangerous practice. The airborne dust and spores flying around within the barn, the huge tractor in a building with youngstock, the danger of foreign bodies such as stones being fired at the horses.

Wrong, wrong, wrong.
		
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The really walked all that way, to that field, from that yard in an emergency evacuation??? I honestly do not believe NS's story


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## McFluff (27 February 2021)

Flyermc said:



			Neither, they dont seem to be to 'hot' on getting vets, they probably just leave it and 'hope' for the best!!
		
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But they own the vets, and this is part of the glossy PR. 

I really can’t understand this - they have all the set up to do this well, but seem to cut corners, at the expense of the horses (and their unsuspecting owners). Relying on NDA is a bonkers policy - well done to Jane for holding firm and speaking up. Very brave. Hopefully you’ll save others, and so sorry for your loss.


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## Gingerwitch (27 February 2021)

Flyermc said:



			The really walked all that way, to that field, from that yard in an emergency evacuation??? I honestly do not believe NS's story
		
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Not many people do. Me thinks an alien abduction would be more if a feasible explanation. C


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## Frumpoon (27 February 2021)

Gingerwitch said:



			[Content removed]
		
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“Intensive Frankenstein farm with no moral compass”.....I like that phrase....very eloquent.....


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## Equi (27 February 2021)

I have to admit one of my first thoughts was how did they get the body out, but now I find they maybe havent?! So did they SEE her in the pit and just leave it to naturally go away? Is that legal? I’m very sickened by this.


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## DabDab (27 February 2021)

People keep saying NDAs plural. How many do Newton stud have knocking around out there in the world?


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## JaneSewell (28 February 2021)

Sossigpoker said:



			They've had quite a few horses die there and I doubt they were all in one night due to the fire.
		
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 ... Well... we know of 2 that died there that weekend .... so tragic


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## CanteringCarrot (28 February 2021)

DabDab said:



			People keep saying NDAs plural. How many do Newton stud have knocking around out there in the world?
		
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I have no idea. It was mentioned previously that NDA's were used and it intrigued me because I wondered how many and why. Seemed a bit odd if true.


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## INDIA1999 (28 February 2021)

CanteringCarrot said:



			I have no idea. It was mentioned previously that NDA's were used and it intrigued me because I wondered how many and why. Seemed a bit odd if true.
		
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I think confidentiality agreements are fairly commonplace in court settlements (or out of court settlements). I suppose the issue with them in this context (horse wellbeing or safety) is that whatever has happened is not allowed to be spoken about or be in the public domain. If there was one matter/issue/case of negligence I suppose I could see some merit in an NDA providing both parties came to it willingly, not under duress (ie settlement is on these terms or else) and lessons had been learnt. If there has been more than one NDA then that starts to look like issues are being concealed and that's stops feeling OK.


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## CanteringCarrot (28 February 2021)

INDIA1999 said:



			I think confidentiality agreements are fairly commonplace in court settlements (or out of court settlements). I suppose the issue with them in this context (horse wellbeing or safety) is that whatever has happened is not allowed to be spoken about or be in the public domain. If there was one matter/issue/case of negligence I suppose I could see some merit in an NDA providing both parties came to it willingly, not under duress (ie settlement is on these terms or else) and lessons had been learnt. If there has been more than one NDA then that starts to look like issues are being concealed and that's stops feeling OK.
		
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Yeah, as I said before, NDA's are common practice in some cases and industries, but I don't understand the context here either.

I guess they could offer a handsome settlement and apology in exchange for a NDA. Money can really sway people. A one off matter, perhaps, but when it becomes multiple, it's odd. I have no idea what the case is here, and it's likely never to be confirmed.

However, if they really do have a lot of cases, accidents, or negligence, I would think their insurance would be sky high. 

The only thing I know for sure about them is that I wouldn't use them as they're too commercial and mass producing for my tastes, but they're in it for the money, I am not.

This thread has really put them on blast so I'm sure they are not pleased about it. Or maybe they don't care as business is still good. 

This is a general statement, not specifically related to Newton Stud: You can literally get away with murder in this industry, and it blows my mind. The things that fly in the horse world are unbelievable. Possibly due to money and power leverages, I don't know.


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## Fandabbydozy (28 February 2021)

CanteringCarrot said:



			I have no idea. It was mentioned previously that NDA's were used and it intrigued me because I wondered how many and why. Seemed a bit odd if true.
		
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You will never be able to find out how many NDAs have been signed because they are just that...Non Disclosure Agreements. Breach of them would have serious consequences so the stud have effectively gagged people. Sadly, because of finances people have little choice but to sign...Imagine having lost thousands & legal fees mounting...you know you have an excellent case but to see it through to court will cost many thousands more & to be honest, the people I have spoken to thought ‘they were the only ones & just unlucky’ Thankfully Jane has been able to bring all this into the open


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## Frumpoon (28 February 2021)

I didn’t think NDA’s were actually enforceable in this country? Or rather enforcing them would be financially unviable because of the aforementioned legal costs of doing so

As somebody who has been party to a high court case where one party represented themselves I can say that judges can be pretty sympathetic where the ‘poorer’ party is there on a moral/circumstantial argument rather than a complex point of law


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## Chinchilla (28 February 2021)

I imagine somewhere like Newton stud could probably afford to enforce them


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## CanteringCarrot (28 February 2021)

Fandabbydozy said:



			You will never be able to find out how many NDAs have been signed because they are just that...Non Disclosure Agreements. Breach of them would have serious consequences so the stud have effectively gagged people. Sadly, because of finances people have little choice but to sign...Imagine having lost thousands & legal fees mounting...you know you have an excellent case but to see it through to court will cost many thousands more & to be honest, the people I have spoken to thought ‘they were the only ones & just unlucky’ Thankfully Jane has been able to bring all this into the open
		
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Yes, I know this. 

I must come off as an idiot sometimes 😅


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## Fandabbydozy (28 February 2021)

CanteringCarrot said:



			Yes, I know this.

I must come off as an idiot sometimes 😅
		
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Haha! No! Not at all...it just annoys me a bit when people question why someone has signed one..I know someone in that very position & the last thing they wanted to do was sign an NDA but they couldn’t afford not to..thought they were fighting a lone battle....little did they know


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## Forum Admin Team (4 March 2021)

Following a review of reported content within this thread several posts have been removed that were in breach of the HHO forum T&C.

The thread is not open for further replies.

Please *do not* restart this conversation elsewhere on the HHO forum.


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