# The HHO LGV (HGV) Info clinic



## ROG (11 August 2012)

Unsure where this would be most useful so I imagine ADMIN will decide on its final resting place 

I know many on this site have vehicles over 3.5 tonnes (3500 kgs) plated GVW (MAM) in which they transport horses so I hope this info will be helpful

My info in this thread will concentrate on what is required for the *PRIVATE* (NOT COMMERCIAL) driving of RIGID LORRY horseboxes over 3.5 tonnes and what is needed to take the LGV test for either LGV C1 (up to 7.5 tonnes) and LGV C (all rigid lorries)

*LICENCES*
The age for drivng ANY LGV was lowered to age 18 from age 21 on 10 Setember 2009
LGV rigid C1 = 3.5 to 7.5 tonnes
LGV rigid C = 3.5 to any weight

*DRIVER CPC (DCPC)*
This is NOT required for the PRIVATE driving of any LGV ..... with one minor exception ....

Those who are under age 21 and wish to drive a PRIVATE LGV OVER 7.5 tonnes GVW on the public highway *AFTER* passing the LGV C test WILL need to take and pass the INITIAL LGV DCPC
They will not be required to take any of the 35 hours of LGV PERIODIC training because the INITIAL lasts for 5 years and that easily covers the age period from 18 to 21
As the likelyhood of anyone under age 21 will be driving a PRIVATE LGV over 7.5 tonnes is rare then I will only go deeper into the INITIAL LGV DCPC if needed.

*LGV TRAINING*
Firstly a *WARNING* - there are many LGV training BROKERS out there who set themselves up as 'middlemen' between the potential trainee and the actual LGV training schools. Many of these BROKERS shut up shop without any prior warning leaving trainees without the training and their money !!

*ALWAYS VISIT THE LGV TRAINING SCHOOL OF YOUR CHOICE BEFORE PARTING WITH ANY MONEY*

A recommendation is the best way of choosing a LGV training school and having DSA registered instructors or not makes absolutely no difference in the quality of training you will get.

Many LGV schools offer 1 to 1 or 2 to 1 training so you can have a chat with them and decide which is best for YOU
1 to 1 half days OR 2 to 1 all day training is the norm but do not be tempted to go for 1 to 1 all day because in most cases the brain cannot handle that sort of intense concentration for that continous length of time.

If you only want a C1 and not a C licence then consider these points ....
The training is virtually the same time and price if done in 'lorries' and the only difference will be the type of gearbox used
If the C1 training is being offered in something like a large 5 tonne VAN then that may be a cheaper and easier option but it will not prepare you that well for when you first get into a C1 7.5 tonne 'lorry'.
There are no air brakes in a VAN !!

The general cost and time for the LGV practical on-road training in the UK including the test fee is around £1,000 over 5 days with the test being on day 5
Retests will be extra and cost around £300 each time.
*NOTE:- *these are rough times and figures and will vary across the UK

*SUPERVISING OF LGV TRAINEES*
In April 2010 new laws came into force for the supervising of any LGV trainee.
To supervise a LGV trainee (provisional licence holder) the supervising driver MUST have passsed the DSA LGV test which covers the LGV category in which they are supervising  and have held that category for 3+ years.
Normal car type L plates are required as well as the correct insurance for a learner in that category - contact your insurance company first.
*Those with only a pre 1997 C1 on their licence CANNOT use that to supervise a LGV C1 learner* 

*APPLYING FOR LGV PROVISIONAL*
DVLA forms D2 and D4 will be needed DVLA FORM ORDERING
On the D2 form tick C & D only - this will cover al LGV & PCV medical and provisional needs for now and in the future.
The D4 is the medical form and does NOT have to be done by your own GP but can be done with ANY DOCTOR so shop around for the best deal - Searching on the internet for - LGV MEDICAL - will bring up some who do it for around £50 

Once the licence with the provisional on it has come back from DVLA then the theory tests can be taken followed by the booking of the practical course.

*THE LGV THEORY AND PRACTICAL TESTS*
These days they are often called modules.
Module 1a = The multiple choice test
Module 1b = The HPT test
Module 2 = Initial driver cpc theory - SEE *DRIVER CPC (DCPC)* SECTION AT THE START OF THIS POST
Module 3 = 1 hour practical road drive plus the REVERSE EXCERCISE - VIDEO and 5 SHOW ME/TELL ME QUESTIONS (click the PCV/LGV tab in that link)
Module 4 = Initial driver cpc practical - SEE *DRIVER CPC (DCPC)* SECTION AT THE START OF THIS POST


This VOSA GUIDE is well worth a read as it deals with many issues surrounding what is and is not considered PRIVATE or COMMERCIAL LGV DRIVING

I hope the above has been useful and please feel free to ask any questions which have not been answered 

*DISCLAIMER:-* I have no connection to any companies which are featured in any of those links


*INFO REQUIRED ON DEFRA OR OTHER CONCERNS WHEN TRANSPORTING HORSES WILL BE GREATLY RECEIVED* so please add any such info in replies to this post so all can read - THANK YOU


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## ROG (11 August 2012)

*FOR THOSE DRIVING LGVs OVER 7.5 TONNES*

This affects all LGVs over 7.5 tonnes whether private or commercial

YOU WILL COME UNDER EU TACHOGRAPH REGULATIONS

VOSA GUIDE TO THE ABOVE REGULATIONS

I will not go into all those regulations as they are in those links but the one which catches many out is the weekly rest rules and what needs to be recorded and when

A *WEEK* is from sunday midnight to sunday midnight

Any driving done under EU regs during a WEEK (as little as 1 minute counts) means the driver has to comply with the weekly rest rules

In any WEEK where no EU regs driving is done then no records are required for that WEEK

VOSA and the police need to see records for a WEEK in which EU regs driving was done so they can determine whether the weekly regs have been complied with

What this means is that records for ALL the WORK you did in a WEEK needs to be recorded officially - not on a scrap of paper or in a diary but in one of these 3 ways ....
1 - Inputted manually into a digital tachograph so the record gets put on your digital tachograph card
2 - Manually written onto digital tachograph printer paper 
3 - Manually written onto analogue cards

Number 1 takes so long that most do not bother doing it that way
Numbers 2 & 3 are most commonly used BUT a seperate record MUST be made for each day worked

Each seperate daily record must have name, date, start & finish time on it - nothing else is required

If you worked mon to fri as an office worker for example and each day you started at 9am and finished at 5pm then you drove under EU regs on saturday from 7am to 8pm in an analogue tacho LGV over 7.5 tonnes then your records would need to be ....

5 seperate analogue cards for the office work
1 seperate analogue card used in the LGV from 7am to 8pm on the saturday

This would leave a weekly rest showing as sat 8pm to sunday midnight of 28 hours but if asked what time you started on monday in the office job (9am) that weekly rest would go from 28 hours to 37 hours
Anything under 45 hours is regarded as a reduced weekly rest and the rules state that *a full UNBROKEN 45 hours must be taken every other WEEK*

If the office work times stay the same then it is posssible to drive the following saturday up to midday because the time from sat noon to mon 9am is 45 hours

You could drive every saturday up to midday with a 9am start on a monday

*The MINIMUM weekly rest is an UNBROKEN time of 24 hours*


Hope that helps a bit to keep you legal


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## SonnysHumanSlave (11 August 2012)

Thank you for this, after all those questions I sent re: me getting my trailer licence (which I still might)
We are now looking for my OH to get his C licence for work, and then we are getting a Non-HGV box. So this is much needed info. Thank you.


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## Gingerwitch (11 August 2012)

Rog - sorry disagree - for private use you do not need to worry about tacho regs.  Even if a tacho is fitted you do not need to use it


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## ROG (11 August 2012)

Gingerwitch said:



			Rog - sorry disagree - for private use you do not need to worry about tacho regs.  Even if a tacho is fitted you do not need to use it
		
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For LGVs in the C1 (7.5 and under) you are correct but not for those over 7.5 tonnes in the C category - There is no exemption in the EU regs for those ....


...... unless you can find one that nobody else has in over 5 years ....


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## Gingerwitch (11 August 2012)

Domestic Rules ?


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## ROG (12 August 2012)

Gingerwitch said:



			Domestic Rules ?
		
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Domestic rules are for where the nature of the job being done comes under an EU regs exemption.

Transporting horses (livestock) does not come under any exemption unless being taken within 50 km to a slaughterhouse


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## Gingerwitch (12 August 2012)

So you are telling me that if i drive a 18t horse box for my own private use, i need to have a restricted operators licence, and that i have to have a tachograph fitted and I would not be allowed to dirve my own horses to a show on both a Saturday and Sunday, as i work monday to friday?


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## ROG (12 August 2012)

Gingerwitch said:



			So you are telling me that if i drive a 18t horse box for my own private use.....

*Q1* - i need to have a restricted operators licence
*Q2* - i have to have a tachograph fitted 
*Q3* - I would not be allowed to dirve my own horses to a show on both a Saturday and Sunday, as i work monday to friday?
		
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*A1* - NO
*A2* - YES
*A3* - YES

Those are EU LAWS (higher than UK ones) and by not complying you would be leaving yourself wide open to prosecution under some of the strictest driving rules around as well as them being easy to detect by enforcement agencies

IMO the EU could have easily added a private driving exemption for all LGVs without compromising safety, after all, someone learning to drive a LGV can legally learn to do so all day for 10 straight days or more without using a tacho or coming under EU regs and that has to be more of a risk than doing what you proposed


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## mutley75 (14 August 2012)

gingerwitch, you have needed a tacho in any vehicle over 7.5 tonnes since April 2007.


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## Nic (15 August 2012)

Great post Rog, and clearly needed.  I'm lucky to have my HGV haulage owner/driver Dad for guidance. Can you ask admin to pin?


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## Puppy (15 August 2012)

This is a really helpful post, thank you  

I have book marked it, and sent off for my D2 pack!


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## ROG (25 August 2012)

LGV THEORY PACKAGE - there are others but this was the cheapest I could find


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## amandaco2 (25 August 2012)

Does the provisional have an expiry on it by which time you must have got the full?


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## Cinnamontoast (25 August 2012)

Admin, this should be a sticky!


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## Beausmate (25 August 2012)

How would you work out the hours if you were self-employed and working from home, say?


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## ROG (26 August 2012)

amandaco2 said:



			Does the provisional have an expiry on it by which time you must have got the full?
		
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NO
The provisional will remain valid for as long as the medical is kept current
If you got provisional at age 20 then the next medical would be at age 45, 50, 55, 60, 65, 66, 67 .........





Beausmate said:



			How would you work out the hours if you were self-employed and working from home, say?
		
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Put down what you want - that would be impossible to check on


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## ROG (24 September 2012)

For anybody wondering why I have disabled my PM system ....

I started to get too many queries on towing and LGV issues and although I am fairly confident in answering them correctly there is always the possiblilty that some answers might be incorrect and without them being publically visible there is no chance of being corrected.

I am still very happy to answer queries publically so please choose the apropriate Towing clinic or LGV clinic link in my signature below to ask on


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## ROG (27 September 2012)

luce1 said:



			Hey Rog 

Can you recommend any other places in surrey/hampshire that do C1 courses?

Thanks 
Lucy
		
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Can only think of EP training in that area


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## buddylove (27 September 2012)

Hi ROG 
do you have any experience of a company called HGV express? Price seems pretty reasonable and they sounded good on the phone?
Thanks


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## ROG (27 September 2012)

Buddylove said:



			Hi ROG 
do you have any experience of a company called *HGV express*? Price seems pretty reasonable and they sounded good on the phone?
Thanks
		
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*BROKER ALERT !!!!* - see the first post in this thread

PS - do me a favour and tell then you would like to meet your instructor and personally view the truck you will be learning in before you pay them a penny - then post their response on here .....


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## ROG (27 September 2012)

Buddylove said:



			Hi ROG 
do you have any experience of a company called HGV express? Price seems pretty reasonable and they sounded good on the phone?
Thanks
		
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Just noticed you are in Cheshire so try Chevron LGV training


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## buddylove (27 September 2012)

Thanks ROG knew you would be the person to ask!!! ;-)


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## Puppy (28 September 2012)

My D2 form arrived in the post today. I'm a bit concerned by part 4, the health questions, as I have to tick 'yes' to 'Any type of brain surgery, *severe head injury involving in-patient treatment*, or brain tumour' as I had a serious head injury Dec '08. 

How much of a problem is this going to be? My doctors never actually talked to me about driving/not driving during my treatment and recover, I just used common sense about when I was fit to again, therefore I have never declared it to the DVLA before.


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## ROG (28 September 2012)

Puppy said:



			My D2 form arrived in the post today. I'm a bit concerned by part 4, the health questions, as I have to tick 'yes' to 'Any type of brain surgery, *severe head injury involving in-patient treatment*, or brain tumour' as I had a serious head injury Dec '08. 

How much of a problem is this going to be? My doctors never actually talked to me about driving/not driving during my treatment and recover, I just used common sense about when I was fit to again, therefore I have never declared it to the DVLA before.
		
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Tick it and attach explanation in full 

DVLA medical will contact your GP if they think there is a concern


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## Puppy (28 September 2012)

Ok, so I just write an explanation out and post it with it, something like "I was kicked in the head by a horse and have had to have my face rebuilt, but I'm fiiiine now"  

Thanks ROG


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## ROG (28 September 2012)

Puppy said:



			Ok, so I just write an explanation out and post it with it, something like "I was kicked in the head by a horse and have had to have my face rebuilt, but I'm fiiiine now"  

Thanks ROG 

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TBH - yes 

I would add the year it happened and at what hospital you received treatment 
Also add that you have been driving since a full recovery for the last X years

Unless a doctor has siad that you should inform DVLA then there is no need to do so

DVLA are not interested in temporary conditions such as not being able to drive for x months or a year after an incident which gets resolved

Can you imagine the mountain they would have to deal with if drivers did report such things as - my GP says I am on these tablets for 3 months and has advised me that it would be unsafe to drive whilst on them


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## Puppy (28 September 2012)

OK, thanks for the advice


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## smiggy (28 September 2012)

Rog what do you know about  rules for vehicles being speed limited
as in my iveco 5.5t is 56mph limited, am I allowed to have it removed? 
thank you


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## ROG (28 September 2012)

smiggy said:



			Rog what do you know about  rules for vehicles being speed limited
as in my iveco 5.5t is 56mph limited, am I allowed to have it removed? 
thank you
		
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You are stuck with it

For private LGVs such as yours, you do not have to go and have it calibrated etc but the seal must remain unbroken


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## smiggy (28 September 2012)

PAH! 

but thank you


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## ROG (28 September 2012)

smiggy said:



			PAH! 

but thank you 

Click to expand...

One more bad piece of news ...

With a limiter fitted you are not allowed in the outer lane of a motorway that has more than 2 lanes


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## jon1210 (29 September 2012)

Hello ROG I noticed that your guide on the licences and various elements of horseboxes was excellent, but... could you help me out haha

im 18 with a full clean car licence who would like to be able to drive the 7.5tonne horsebox at work for my employer who regularly is driving abroad around europe,  can you please advise on what would be the best steps to do as the VOSA guide tells me I need a different licence if its for my job and if im not just driving in the UK. I have contacted a few people who do intensive courses for C1 licence is that correct I just dont want to go any further to find out I have the wrong licence

PM me with a reply if you dont mind  

Cheers
Jon


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## ROG (29 September 2012)

jon1210 said:



			im 18 with a full clean car licence who would like to be able to drive the 7.5tonne horsebox at work for my employer who regularly is driving abroad around europe,  can you please advise on what would be the best steps to do as the VOSA guide tells me I need a different licence if its for my job and if im not just driving in the UK. I have contacted a few people who do intensive courses for C1 licence is that correct I just dont want to go any further to find out I have the wrong licence
		
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VOSA do not deal with licence issues - the DVLA do

A C1 licence is the same whether you are using it for the UK or abroad

You will need to do the initial driver CPC modules 2 & 4 if you intend to use it for commercial purposes such as for your job

I would seriously consider doing the LGV C course instead of the C1 if intending to use LGV for commercial - more difficult gearbox but otherwise its virtually the same course and test


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## jon1210 (29 September 2012)

Thank you very much ROG I will look into the intensive courses for LGV C


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## jon1210 (7 October 2012)

I got told I can do my class C which is upto 32tonnes and the CPC driver test now, wow 32tonnes


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## ROG (7 October 2012)

jon1210 said:



			I got told I can do my class C which is upto 32tonnes and the CPC driver test now, wow 32tonnes
		
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LGV C has no upper weight limit

Only the design of the vehicle will limit the possible maximum weight


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## Archina (7 October 2012)

I am 25 and passed my class C at the start of the year, the only regret I had was not sitting the C+E which means you can drive trailers aswell.


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## ROG (8 October 2012)

Archina said:



			I am 25 and passed my class C at the start of the year, the only regret I had was not sitting the C+E which means you can drive trailers aswell. 

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You must pass C before doing C+E so you have not lost out


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## perfect11s (8 October 2012)

smiggy said:



			Rog what do you know about  rules for vehicles being speed limited
as in my iveco 5.5t is 56mph limited, am I allowed to have it removed? 
thank you
		
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 Not if the truck was registered after oct 2001 , 51 reg or newer, they will check its function during the annual test(plating) so not the best idea to mess about with !!!but  there is nothing to stop you having it reset if its set lower than 90kph...


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## perfect11s (8 October 2012)

Good thread ROG,  and maybe it's time for a transport forum  maybe we could have the olyimpics forum when that's run its course or put vet and breeding together??? ,  transport issues are important to most horse owners and people who work with horses..Admin????


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## perfect11s (8 October 2012)

Bump..


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## mutley75 (8 October 2012)

smiggy if you put a big magnet on the gearbox the limiter stops working!!!


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## perfect11s (8 October 2012)

mutley75 said:



			smiggy if you put a big magnet on the gearbox the limiter stops working!!! 

Click to expand...

 Yes and so does your insurance and any sense
of humour the police and vosa had also stops working !!!!


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## YorksG (8 October 2012)

This may be a silly question, but why would anyone want to over-ride the limiter? Isn't 56 mph enough to travel a horse at?


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## ROG (9 October 2012)

YorksG said:



			This may be a silly question, but why would anyone want to over-ride the limiter? Isn't 56 mph enough to travel a horse at?
		
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Limiters are not such an issue for those using horseboxes but are more of an issue for the general commercial LGV industry.

Sites like trucknetuk have many threads on this issue

I have Email alerts for this thread so if anyone poses a question it will be picked up quite quickly


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## ROG (9 October 2012)

perfect11s said:



			Good thread ROG,  and maybe it's time for a transport forum  maybe we could have the olyimpics forum when that's run its course or put vet and breeding together??? ,  transport issues are important to most horse owners and people who work with horses..Admin????
		
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Looking at the number of transport related posts I do not think a forum would be that well used IMO


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## perfect11s (9 October 2012)

ROG said:



			Looking at the number of transport related posts I do not think a forum would be that well used IMO
		
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 Maybe but there is  quite a few trailer, lorrry or tow vehicle posts every day?? perhaps there would be less if it was on a seperate forum 
as the posters would see old threads that answer questions they were going to ask...it does seem quite  an important part of horse ownership ??? and you have a fair number of posts on your towing sticky,  people post on differnt forums  so  having  its own maybe would get better coverage  and help  we have a vet a breeding a stolen missing etc but not transport one  wonder what others think???


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## ROG (17 October 2012)

HERE is a link to the experiences of one member who booked their LGV training through a broker and not a LGV training school

At the time of posting this the experience is not concluded so it might be interesting to follow it in the future weeks and months......


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## wallykissmas (22 October 2012)

I'm looking at a Kia sportage details are : max kerb weight 1502, GVW 1830 so what could I pull with it ?


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## ROG (22 October 2012)

wallykissmas said:



			I'm looking at a Kia sportage details are : max kerb weight 1502, GVW 1830 so what could I pull with it ?
		
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Err .. did you mean to ask that on the LGV thread?


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## wallykissmas (22 October 2012)

ROG said:



			Err .. did you mean to ask that on the LGV thread?
		
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Flicks back my blonde hair * cough* guess that won't class as an HGV will it ...... Please ROG help me


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## ROG (22 October 2012)

wallykissmas said:



			Flicks back my blonde hair * cough* guess that won't class as an HGV will it ...... Please ROG help me 

Click to expand...

ANSWERED HERE in post number 780


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## YorksG (22 October 2012)

This may sound like a very silly question, but is there anyway, other than going to a weight bridge, to find out what the pay load of a 7.5 tonnes horsebox is? Thanks


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## ROG (22 October 2012)

YorksG said:



			This may sound like a very silly question, but is there anyway, other than going to a weight bridge, to find out what the pay load of a 7.5 tonnes horsebox is? Thanks 

Click to expand...

No - weighbridge awaits you


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## Spendtoomuch (23 October 2012)

Rog - next year I plan on getting a 7.5 ton or lower (but over 3.5t) horse box.
I passed my test in 1999, I have a c1 provisional which I got in 2004, had forgot about tbh but spotted it on my licence the other week.
So I can either now do lgv theory anytime and then be able to do practical training and test next year? this would allow me to drive up to a 7.5t
Or
I have medical, apply for provisional to be able to do c licence so over 7.5t? 
 Am I correct?
 if I am would I be best to just carry on with c1 as max I will probably ever have is a 7.5t? 
Thanks


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## ROG (23 October 2012)

Spendtoomuch said:



			Rog - next year I plan on getting a 7.5 ton or lower (but over 3.5t) horse box.
I passed my test in 1999, I have a c1 provisional which I got in 2004, had forgot about tbh but spotted it on my licence the other week.
So I can either now do lgv theory anytime and then be able to do practical training and test next year? this would allow me to drive up to a 7.5t
Or
I have medical, apply for provisional to be able to do c licence so over 7.5t? 
 Am I correct?
 if I am would I be best to just carry on with c1 as max I will probably ever have is a 7.5t? 
Thanks
		
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If the C1 provisional is already on your licence then no need to do another medical if under age 45

Bit surprised that you did not tick C & D on the D2 provisional licence form !!

Lets stick with C1 - you can now do the theory modules 1a & 1b which will last for 2 years

After passing the theory you can book the practical

Easiest way to pass C1 is to look for schools which use a 5 or 6 tonne van

VISIT BEFORE PAYING ANY MONEY TO ANYONE


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## Spendtoomuch (23 October 2012)

Ok thanks, not sure what or why I ticked boxes as 8 years ago. Not sure anyone fully understood it then? 
I am between northampton and kettering any recommendations for training?


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## ROG (23 October 2012)

Spendtoomuch said:



			Ok thanks, not sure what or why I ticked boxes as 8 years ago. Not sure anyone fully understood it then? 
I am between northampton and kettering any recommendations for training?
		
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Not managed to find a school in your area that does C1 in your area in either a 7.5 lorry or a 5/6 tonne van .... yet ....


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## YorksG (24 October 2012)

ROG said:



			No - weighbridge awaits you
		
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Thanks  Will get myself organised for that!


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## Nick2612 (15 February 2013)

Thanks for your informative posts.

I'm looking to find an instructor who can provide me with training and enter me for my C1 test 

I only intend to drive a 5 tonne box. Do you know any local instructors to me that provide training in a 5/6 tonne van?  I'm based in Nuneaton.

Thanks in advance

Nick


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## ROG (16 February 2013)

Nick2612 said:



			Thanks for your informative posts.

I'm looking to find an instructor who can provide me with training and enter me for my C1 test 

I only intend to drive a 5 tonne box. Do you know any local instructors to me that provide training in a 5/6 tonne van?  I'm based in Nuneaton.

Thanks in advance

Nick
		
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DATA ACADEMY would be my first choice - near M1/M69 junction - I think they just got a 5 tonne van for C1

The only other nearest one to you I can think of with a C1 van would be J COATES in leicester city centre


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## ROG (9 May 2013)

Rock14 said:



			Hi Rog,

You seem to be very honest and knowledgable in the C or C1 department!
I am currently taking my class C as I want to drive my 7.5t horsebox, but I am sorry to say I have failed the test twice now so my pride and pocket has taken a battering - would I be best to re test and do my C1 and leave my C untill i have more road experience. The mistakes I have failed on are silly to close to car pulled out to soon on a roundabout - but I feel like the 3rd time I maybe a nervous wreak so maybe doing the c1 confidently would be a better option for me? What do you think?
		
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If its purely down to the size of the vehicle then certainly consider doing C1 in a large 4 or 5 tonne van rather than a lorry but the downside might be that if your horsebox is going to be a 7.5 lorry then you might still have the same issues

If its not the size but simply down to your general driving ability then stay with cat C

Try KALMS tablets or see your chemist for other options for test nerves

If driving confidence is the issue then perhaps contacting your local advanced driving group for a free assessment drive in your own vehicle is an idea to try


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## Rock14 (9 May 2013)

Yes I think your probably right, I just feel with the 7.5t I have so much to think about and consider that I am making silly mistakes and would I drive better in the C1 for the test and get my confidence back up. My instructor says there is nothing wrong with my driving and to keep going but I cant help feel I may do it again and I can not afford too!


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## asommerville (9 May 2013)

can i tow a brand new ifor 506 with a 61 plate 2.2 rav 4 with an old person next to me and L plates on?


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## ROG (9 May 2013)

asommerville said:



			can i tow a brand new ifor 506 with a 61 plate 2.2 rav 4 with an old person next to me and L plates on?
		
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ANSWERED HERE IN POST 1186


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## coloured_c0b (9 May 2013)

Rog - can someone who has taken a higher class test act as a supervisor? My dad has a class 1 Hgv license but has not sat the test for the c category. Or would he have had to sit that test too? Thanks for all the useful advice


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## ROG (9 May 2013)

coloured_c0b said:



			Rog - can someone who has taken a higher class test act as a supervisor? My dad has a class 1 Hgv license but has not sat the test for the c category. Or would he have had to sit that test too? Thanks for all the useful advice 

Click to expand...

Yes he can because higher classes cover lower classes

C+E covers C C1 C1+E B B+E
C covers C1 B


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## Emma86 (9 May 2013)

Hi ROG,

Any recommendations for C1 training in the South Bucks (or close enough) area. After having a search on the net a few have popped up that you suggested people should avoid!


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## coloured_c0b (9 May 2013)

Thank u. He will be sooo pleased to hear this


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## ROG (9 May 2013)

Emma86 said:



			Hi ROG,

Any recommendations for C1 training in the South Bucks (or close enough) area. After having a search on the net a few have popped up that you suggested people should avoid!
		
Click to expand...

Where would you like to test - Reading berks, Weedon N'hants

There are limited LGV test centres so it makes sense to use a provider near to one of those centres


----------



## welshie1982 (9 May 2013)

Hi ROG
Can you please recommend somewhere to do my c test. Im in Powys.


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## Emma86 (9 May 2013)

ROG said:



			Where would you like to test - Reading berks, Weedon N'hants

There are limited LGV test centres so it makes sense to use a provider near to one of those centres
		
Click to expand...

Probably reading would be best...


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## ROG (9 May 2013)

For you folks looking for schools then may I suggest looking HERE as those are schools which have been recommended by trainees who did training with them 

Some might have been over 5 years ago but its the best I can come up with

I know of various trainers across the UK but only in certain places so any outside that I cannot say yay or nay to


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## martlin (20 June 2013)

I've read all that, and it might be that I am a bit dim, but I need to ask anyway 
I'm looking at getting a C1 licence in order to drive a biggish van (no air brakes - they frighten me, lol). 
I have a livery yard and ride horses for other people for a living, but the lorry will be used to take out my own 2 horses to some shows, and I never offer transport to liveries - will I need an operator's licence?


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## ROG (20 June 2013)

martlin said:



			I've read all that, and it might be that I am a bit dim, but I need to ask anyway 
I'm looking at getting a C1 licence in order to drive a biggish van (no air brakes - they frighten me, lol). 
I have a livery yard and ride horses for other people for a living, but the lorry will be used to take out my own 2 horses to some shows, and I never offer transport to liveries - will I need an operator's licence?
		
Click to expand...

No O licence needed if all you are doing is transporting horses on a non commercial basis

Please read the advice in the first posts before jumping into getting the licence


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## martlin (20 June 2013)

ROG said:



			No O licence needed if all you are doing is transporting horses on a non commercial basis

Please read the advice in the first posts before jumping into getting the licence
		
Click to expand...

Thanks for that, that's what I thought, but this incidental to business talk confused me.
Now, the reason for C1 is a bit tactical for me, tbh, I don't want to be able to drive anything bigger or I will be railroaded into doing the big cattle runs and I just flatly refuse to  I suppose it could be considered a bit of a waste of money not going for the C cat, but then again, I just don't see the point in driving something that scares the daylight out of me


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## ROG (23 July 2013)

A little bump in case there are any more questions


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## YorksG (23 July 2013)

This may be the silliest of silly questions....... BUT, are there any rules about how the load of horses is distributed? Do the different axels carry different weights?  See I did say it may be the silliest of silly questions


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## ROG (23 July 2013)

YorksG said:



			This may be the silliest of silly questions....... BUT, are there any rules about how the load of horses is distributed? Do the different axels carry different weights?  See I did say it may be the silliest of silly questions 

Click to expand...

Not silly
 Axles do have different weight limits with rear being greater than front in every case I have come across

It would depend on whether living has been built in as to how the distribution of other things such as horses would need to be loaded

Loading weight evenly from the front to rear of the original length of the loading space is always recommended


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## Slightly Foxed (23 July 2013)

Hi Rog, I'm getting a 10 tonne lorry next month to replace my 7.5 tonne lorry which has sadly rusted away. Will I have to operate the tachometer on the 10 tonne (I'm a private user)? I never did on the 7.5 even though it was fitted.

Also, in LGV job adverts what does 'must be a digi card holder' mean?


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## ROG (23 July 2013)

Slightly Foxed said:



			Hi Rog, I'm getting a 10 tonne lorry next month to replace my 7.5 tonne lorry which has sadly rusted away. Will I have to operate the tachometer on the 10 tonne (I'm a private user)? I never did on the 7.5 even though it was fitted.

Also, in LGV job adverts what does 'must be a digi card holder' mean?
		
Click to expand...

Any LGV where the GVW is over 7.5 tonne comes under the EU driver regs even if being driven privately so the tacho will need to be used and you must legally record any other work you do in any capacity on officially recognised recording methods - a diary will not suffice

Other work only needs to be recorded in any fixed week which is sunday midnight to sunday midnight if any part of that fixed week has been driven in under EU regs

No Eu regs driving done in a fixed week then no records needed - VOSA will assume that were no records exist that time is assumed to be rest but they will usually ask what you did  

the easiest way to record other work is to use a separate analogue card for each day worked with name, date, start and finish time on it

All this is so that VOSA etc can see if you have conformed to the weekly rest requirements

You cannot work mon to fri and then drive on both sat and sun unless you can show an unbroken rest period of 24 hours

Ok to work in another job mon to fri 8 to 6 then drive on sat until noon then on sun after noon because from noon to noon is 24 hours
The week following the driver must have an unbroken 45 hours off so fitting any driving is going to be difficult to do legally


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## ROG (23 July 2013)

For those privately driving LGVs over 7.5 tonnes GVW and on digital tachos the unit and card needs to be downloaded within certain time frames which could cause problems for a private user


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## Slightly Foxed (23 July 2013)

Thank you, that's very usefuL.

So how do people find out about these rules if they don't have access to a Rog?

Some people I teach recently bought a trailer and had no idea that you need to take a trailer test if you hadn't passed your test before a certain date. I know of another young woman who insists she can drive an information Williams 505 and 4x4 on her car licence, the combined weight must be over that allowed on a car licence? Sorry, that's trailers, not lorries!


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## ROG (23 July 2013)

Slightly Foxed said:



			Thank you, that's very usefuL.

So how do people find out about these rules if they don't have access to a Rog?

Some people I teach recently bought a trailer and had no idea that you need to take a trailer test if you hadn't passed your test before a certain date. I know of another young woman who insists she can drive an information Williams 505 and 4x4 on her car licence, the combined weight must be over that allowed on a car licence? Sorry, that's trailers, not lorries!
		
Click to expand...

As a driver of a LGV it is your responsibility to find any rules that cover what you are doing

Its no difference to a car driver that is so old that they never took a car test or a car driver who took the test some 25 years ago but has not bothered to find out what has changed since - it is their responsibility to find out

Many drivers do not need to pass a trailer test even if they passed after 1997 because the B licence towing laws allow them to do so 

I think what you are saying is that those driving set ups which require a B+E licence are either unaware or have taken advice from those who passed before 1997 who assume the laws are unchanged


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## GinaGeo (23 July 2013)

ROG said:



*LICENCES*
The age for drivng ANY LGV was lowered to age 18 from age 21 on 10 Setember 2009
LGV rigid C1 = 3.5 to 7.5 tonnes
LGV rigid C = 3.5 to any weight

*DRIVER CPC (DCPC)*
This is NOT required for the PRIVATE driving of any LGV ..... with one minor exception ....

Those who are under age 21 and wish to drive a PRIVATE LGV OVER 7.5 tonnes GVW on the public highway *AFTER* passing the LGV C test WILL need to take and pass the INITIAL LGV DCPC
They will not be required to take any of the 35 hours of LGV PERIODIC training because the INITIAL lasts for 5 years and that easily covers the age period from 18 to 21
As the likelyhood of anyone under age 21 will be driving a PRIVATE LGV over 7.5 tonnes is rare then I will only go deeper into the INITIAL LGV DCPC if needed.
		
Click to expand...

Just to clarify - does this mean that at nineteen, I could do the cat C test?  It would only be for personal use, moving my own horses around in a 6.5 ton van type horsebox.

If so that beats being reliant on parents for another two years before I can do my towing test.

Thank You!


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## ROG (24 July 2013)

GinaGeo said:



			Just to clarify - does this mean that at nineteen, I could do the cat C test?  It would only be for personal use, moving my own horses around in a 6.5 ton van type horsebox.

If so that beats being reliant on parents for another two years before I can do my towing test.

Thank You!
		
Click to expand...

All LGV categories can be done at age 18 as of 10/09/2009

A driver under age 21 can drive a 7.5 or less privately without needing initial driver cpc

If a driver under age 21 wants to drive (after passing test) anything over 7.5 tonnes GVW then they will need to pass the initial driver cpc but that will not affect you as you will be driving under 7.5 GVW

you can do the towing test (B+E) at age 17 and if parents have B+E then they can supervise with you as learner


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## YorksG (24 July 2013)

ROG said:



			Not silly
 Axles do have different weight limits with rear being greater than front in every case I have come across

It would depend on whether living has been built in as to how the distribution of other things such as horses would need to be loaded

Loading weight evenly from the front to rear of the original length of the loading space is always recommended
		
Click to expand...

Thanks for that ROG, I think I need to put the heavier horses further towards the rear if I am travelling them on their own, rather than in the first bay in the partitions. Thanks again for your ever helpful replies


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## GinaGeo (25 July 2013)

ROG said:



			you can do the towing test (B+E) at age 17 and if parents have B+E then they can supervise with you as learner
		
Click to expand...

Really!?!  I always thought you had to be 21! That's very useful!  So if I apply for my B+E provisional, get insured on the tow vehicle, and have L plates with  I can tow with parents who have grandfather rights in the car?  Glad I'm asked, I'd have spent another two years waiting!  No idea where I got the 21 thing from!

Thank You ROG!


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## ROG (25 July 2013)

GinaGeo said:



			Really!?!  I always thought you had to be 21! That's very useful!  So if I apply for my B+E provisional, get insured on the tow vehicle, and have L plates with  I can tow with parents who have grandfather rights in the car?  Glad I'm asked, I'd have spent another two years waiting!  No idea where I got the 21 thing from!

Thank You ROG!
		
Click to expand...

*SUPERVISING A B+E LEARNER*
In April 2010 new rules were introduced for those supervising certain learner drivers but they only affected those supervising VOCATIONAL categories such as C1 C1+E D1 & D1+E where the supervising driver had those categories given to them for free when they passed a pre 1997 car test.
*They do not affect those with a pre 1997 B+E licence who wish to supervise a B+E learner.*

*All B licence holders have B+E provisional on the paper part of their licence and can tow an empty or loaded trailer on all roads including motorways. *

The usual rules apply when a learner is driving - 
The supervising driver must be aged over 21
The supervising driver must have held a B+E licence for at least 3 years
L plates must be fitted to the front of the vehicle and the rear of the trailer
Correct insurance for a B+E learner


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## GinaGeo (25 July 2013)

Thank You Rog! Have broken the news to the parents, plans are in motion for adding L-plates and going out on a quiet evening!
Big Thank You!


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## Django Pony (18 August 2013)

Quick question for you ROG, does having either a C or C1 mean you can tow a trailer as well, or would you have to do the trailer test separately? 
Thanks


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## ROG (18 August 2013)

Django Pony said:



			Quick question for you ROG, does having either a C or C1 mean you can tow a trailer as well, or would you have to do the trailer test separately? 
Thanks
		
Click to expand...

To tow any trailer over 750 kgs max MAM needs a +E on the licence with the exception of the 3500 kgs max MAM/GVW rule for B


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## Blythe Spirit (15 September 2013)

HI there can i ask a question?
I intend to buy a horse box for taking my two horses to shows etc but as the combined weight of my horses is over a ton i really need something bigger than a 3.5ton. I have no need or desire or money for a HGV lorry though, so only need a C1 I think. This is my situation - what would you recommend? 
I am 37 - passed my driving test 3 years ago but in an automatic (So i have a restricted licence). As far as I can tell there is no way to get a Auto C1 licence (and anyway I gather automatic boxes are very rare) so is my only option to FIRST get a full manual driving license and then to get my C1? Or is there any other route with less tests or is there a C1 (auto restriction) option? Just not looking forward to all those tests ... any advice? thanks in advance


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## ROG (16 September 2013)

Blythe Spirit said:



			HI there can i ask a question?
I intend to buy a horse box for taking my two horses to shows etc but as the combined weight of my horses is over a ton i really need something bigger than a 3.5ton. I have no need or desire or money for a HGV lorry though, so only need a C1 I think. This is my situation - what would you recommend? 
I am 37 - passed my driving test 3 years ago but in an automatic (So i have a restricted licence). As far as I can tell there is no way to get a Auto C1 licence (and anyway I gather automatic boxes are very rare) so is my only option to FIRST get a full manual driving license and then to get my C1? Or is there any other route with less tests or is there a C1 (auto restriction) option? Just not looking forward to all those tests ... any advice? thanks in advance
		
Click to expand...

You can go directly for a LGV C1 manual with your B auto licence

On passing C1 manual your B gets upgraded to manual for life

HGV is no more they are all LGV if over 3.5 tonnes GVW


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## Blythe Spirit (17 September 2013)

ROG said:



			You can go directly for a LGV C1 manual with your B auto licence

On passing C1 manual your B gets upgraded to manual for life

HGV is no more they are all LGV if over 3.5 tonnes GVW
		
Click to expand...

Oh thanks! You just saved me from taking a whole test needlessly! Though I might still have a few lessons in a manual car first - just so that the first time I forget the clutch I don't moo down shoppers or something! 

Seriously though do you have any recs for a nice LGV instructor in the midlands - Stratford Upon Avon way? 

Liz


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## ROG (17 September 2013)

Blythe Spirit said:



			Oh thanks! You just saved me from taking a whole test needlessly! Though I might still have a few lessons in a manual car first - just so that the first time I forget the clutch I don't moo down shoppers or something! 

Seriously though do you have any recs for a nice LGV instructor in the midlands - Stratford Upon Avon way? 

Liz
		
Click to expand...

You have provisional for B manual so will need a supervising driver and be on L plates if driving a manual car

JLD driver training at Banbury woulld be my suggestion but not sure if they have C1 vehicle


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## Blythe Spirit (17 September 2013)

ROG said:



			You have provisional for B manual so will need a supervising driver and be on L plates if driving a manual car

JLD driver training at Banbury woulld be my suggestion but not sure if they have C1 vehicle
		
Click to expand...

Thanks again - I knew the first point - I really meant I might have some lessons in a manual car before trying it in an LGV! Thanks for the Rec though - I will investigate 
Liz


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## Ashgrove (17 September 2013)

I've heard that everyone (me included) who is driving up to 7.5t without taking a separate test, will have to sit a test next year. Please tell me this isn't so


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## ROG (17 September 2013)

Ashgrove said:



			I've heard that everyone (me included) who is driving up to 7.5t without taking a separate test, will have to sit a test next year. Please tell me this isn't so 

Click to expand...

MYTH


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## Ashgrove (17 September 2013)

Ashgrove said:



			I've heard that everyone (me included) who is driving up to 7.5t without taking a separate test, will have to sit a test next year. Please tell me this isn't so 

Click to expand...




ROG said:



			MYTH
		
Click to expand...

Thank you sooooooo much ROG


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## LilMissy (18 October 2013)

Any recommendations for training companies north bristol area please?


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## ROG (19 October 2013)

LilMissy said:



			Any recommendations for training companies north bristol area please?
		
Click to expand...

http://www.trucknetuk.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=44667


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## ROG (22 December 2013)

New rules for having some types of vehicles and all trailers laden for the test have now come into force but they do not affect those doing LGV C1 - https://www.gov.uk/new-laden-testing-rules-for-driving-test-vehicles


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## RobinHood (23 December 2013)

Hi ROG. I've got a cat C licence and therefore C&E provisional. I've been driving an 18t rigid lorry with a 7t trailer, on L plates accompanied by a full licence holder. My question is can I drive combo on a motorway on L plates?

I recall when I did my cat C training we went on the motorway every morning and I'd like to think the LGV training company would know the rules, but I can't find the answer on the DVLA website.

Thanks


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## ROG (23 December 2013)

RobinHood said:



			Hi ROG. I've got a cat C licence and therefore C&E provisional. I've been driving an 18t rigid lorry with a 7t trailer, on L plates accompanied by a full licence holder. My question is can I drive combo on a motorway on L plates?
		
Click to expand...

YES

I like easy ones


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## RobinHood (23 December 2013)

Thanks ROG !


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## ROG (12 February 2014)

A little update - cannot remember if I have mentioned already ... me getting old !!

Within the next few weeks a driver with a manual car licence who then pass any LGV test in an auto will get LGV manual due to an EU directive which should have been in force from 1st January this year

Those doing LGV C will also find that they will be loaded with 5 tonnes of weight in the form of 5 x 1000 litre water IBCs

No weight in C1s


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## lozzareed (12 February 2014)

Taking my CPC next week but not actually sure what it's all about, would someone explain to me if anyone is knowledgeable?


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## ROG (12 February 2014)

lozzareed said:



			Taking my CPC next week but not actually sure what it's all about, would someone explain to me if anyone is knowledgeable?
		
Click to expand...

Initial (modules 2 and 4) or periodic (35 hours) ?

I assume you mean driver cpc and not operator cpc?


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## lozzareed (12 February 2014)

Drivers CPC sorry and yes modules 2 and 4


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## ROG (12 February 2014)

lozzareed said:



			Drivers CPC sorry and yes modules 2 and 4
		
Click to expand...

The best info on this is in the LGV TRAINING TIPS thread on the trucknetuk site newbies forum 

Generally the mod 2 is done at the theory test centre and is a set of senarios with a few questions of multiple choice on each scenario

Mod 4 needs training for and is done at the practical test centre


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## Gemmabel (13 February 2014)

Hi

Having just purchased a 6.6T horsebox i have some questions about the load.

If i just do the C1 license am i correct in that i will only be able to travel 1 horse and be under my weight limit?
If i do the full C test i can travel with a load up to the maximum vehicle limit which i think is 10T?
If i do the full C test and travel 2 horses i have to use the tacho which is fitted and record all my working hours inc what i do (8.30-5.30) during the week which is an office job?
My OH has a full HGV1 license, i think once i have taken the medical and got my provisional he can take me driving if we have L plates on? do i need to pass the theory & hazard perception before this?

sorry for the long list


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## ROG (13 February 2014)

Gemmabel said:



			Hi

Having just purchased a 6.6T horsebox i have some questions about the load.

If i just do the C1 license am i correct in that i will only be able to travel 1 horse and be under my weight limit?
If i do the full C test i can travel with a load up to the maximum vehicle limit which i think is 10T?
If i do the full C test and travel 2 horses i have to use the tacho which is fitted and record all my working hours inc what i do (8.30-5.30) during the week which is an office job?
My OH has a full HGV1 license, i think once i have taken the medical and got my provisional he can take me driving if we have L plates on? do i need to pass the theory & hazard perception before this?

sorry for the long list 

Click to expand...

The licence you need depends on the plated GVW of the vehicle

If your horsebox is 6.6 tonnes GVW then its a LGV C1 licence and having a C will make no difference because the max the vehicle can be when fully loaded is 6.6 tonnes

If the vehicle is 10 tonnes GVW then it cannot be driven on a C1 licence but must be a C

Yes, the supervising driver can be OH as long as he has had a C for at least 3 years - L plates - correct insurance - you with LGV provisional

No tacho required for C1 vehicle if non commercial use

Full tacho regs if C vehicle in which case all other sorts of work done in the same week must be officially recorded and generally if you work mon to fri then you would only be able to drive for one day every other weekend

WHAT IS THE PLATED GVW OF THIS HORSEBOX?
WHAT IS THE EMPTY WEIGHT OF THIS HORSEBOX?


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## Gemmabel (13 February 2014)

I remember seeing 10T somewhere so presume this is the GVW? The tax disc that has just come through said 6.6T so presume this is the empty weight? 
will have a look on the plating when i get home. This stuff just really confuses me!


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## ROG (13 February 2014)

Gemmabel said:



			I remember seeing 10T somewhere so presume this is the GVW? The tax disc that has just come through said 6.6T so presume this is the empty weight? 
will have a look on the plating when i get home. This stuff just really confuses me!
		
Click to expand...

Tax disc usually gives the GVW if I remember correctly 

The V5 form will usually give lots of info


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## Gemmabel (17 February 2014)

Hi ROG, me again!

here is a pic of my lorry plating. Still cant seem to find the empty weight or the payload? any ideas


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## ROG (17 February 2014)

You will not find the empty weight to work out the payload from any plate

You have to take the vehicle empty to a weighbridge and weigh it with a full tank of fuel with the driver sitting in it

Once you have the ticket from the weighbridge you can then work out how many passengers horses tack etc etc you can load in it by taking the weighbridge weight from 6600 which is the GVW

that is a LGV C1 vehicle because the GVW is not more than 7500

You can tow a trailer but how big will depend on what licence you have such as C1 only or C1+E with 107 code or C1+E with no code or C+E


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## Gemmabel (17 February 2014)

Thanks ROG that helps loads.

I am not looking to do a trailer test just the HGV. I am still undecided whether to do C1 or C, i think the cost will be around the same for both but am unsure how much harder the test will be.

Generally speaking with a lorry that size are you usually safe to travel 2 horses and not be overweight or does it vary hugely?


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## ROG (17 February 2014)

Gemmabel said:



			Thanks ROG that helps loads.

I am not looking to do a trailer test just the HGV. I am still undecided whether to do C1 or C, i think the cost will be around the same for both but am unsure how much harder the test will be.

Generally speaking with a lorry that size are you usually safe to travel 2 horses and not be overweight or does it vary hugely?
		
Click to expand...

Easily ok for 2 horses unless a very heavy living area has been fitted

You can tow a trailer with max plated MAM (or MTPLM if caravan) with a LGV C1 licence


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## charlimouse (17 February 2014)

I have another (slightly random) query, which hopefully somebody can shed some light on! I have my category C1 licence. I need to renew my photo on my licence, so went to the post office and asked for the relevant form (I think it would be a D2???). At this point the woman behind the counter looked at me like I had 3 heads and said she had never heard of it and gave me the D1 form, which says at the top, not to use it for renewing a bus or lorry licence. So where can I get this elusive form from if not the Post Office? As far as I can see it isn't possible to do it online. Also whilst googling to try find the answer I found some info which said I will need another medical to apply for a renewed photocard. Is this true? I passed my C1 in 2008.

Thanks, I hope this isn't too off topic, but I can't find any clear answers anywhere!


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## ROG (17 February 2014)

charlimouse said:



			I have another (slightly random) query, which hopefully somebody can shed some light on! I have my category C1 licence. I need to renew my photo on my licence, so went to the post office and asked for the relevant form (I think it would be a D2???). At this point the woman behind the counter looked at me like I had 3 heads and said she had never heard of it and gave me the D1 form, which says at the top, not to use it for renewing a bus or lorry licence. So where can I get this elusive form from if not the Post Office? As far as I can see it isn't possible to do it online. Also whilst googling to try find the answer I found some info which said I will need another medical to apply for a renewed photocard. Is this true? I passed my C1 in 2008.

Thanks, I hope this isn't too off topic, but I can't find any clear answers anywhere!
		
Click to expand...

http://www.postoffice.co.uk/uk-driving-licence-photocard-renewal
You are only renewing the photo and not anything else so every other form besides the photo renewal form is irrelevant 

Take photo renewal form/letter you got from DVLA to a post office that has the facility to take photos for this purpose and its all done and dusted in less than 5 mins

I got my new licence back in 3 days !


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## charlimouse (17 February 2014)

Thanks for that!


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## Gemmabel (25 April 2014)

Quick Question for ROG

so i now have my provisional, passed my theory & hazard perception yesterday (1st time yay!  ) and am ready to start training for my practical. I got the provisional for both C & C1 categories but haven't decided what to do yet.

do you know of any good training centres in the Maidstone, Kent area?


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## ROG (25 April 2014)

Gemmabel said:



			Quick Question for ROG

so i now have my provisional, passed my theory & hazard perception yesterday (1st time yay!  ) and am ready to start training for my practical. I got the provisional for both C & C1 categories but haven't decided what to do yet.

do you know of any good training centres in the Maidstone, Kent area?
		
Click to expand...

http://www.trucknetuk.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=44667#p503949


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## Gemmabel (25 April 2014)

ROG said:



http://www.trucknetuk.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=44667#p503949

Click to expand...

Thank you


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## RobinHood (25 April 2014)

Another question from me, sorry! My DQC card has come through with category CE, even though I haven't done my C&E test yet. 

Have they made a mistake or does the CPC cover your provisional entitlements as well?


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## ROG (26 April 2014)

RobinHood said:



			Another question from me, sorry! My DQC card has come through with category CE, even though I haven't done my C&E test yet. 

Have they made a mistake or does the CPC cover your provisional entitlements as well?
		
Click to expand...

I assume you drive commercially as you have got a DQC (driver cpc card)?

A DQC refers to all LGV categories so when issued the lot are listed

Entitlement to drive certain LGV categories are on the driving licence


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## RobinHood (29 April 2014)

OK thanks ROG. I was hoping they'd accidentally awarded me a CE licence ;-)


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## Emmalou.e (30 April 2014)

Hi
New on the forum and needing to pick some brains regarding downplating a lorry.
Looking at a 5.5 ton and wondered if it would be possible to downplate to a 3.5 ton so I can drive it on my licence without having to take my C/C1 test?
Would only plan on carrying a sec a and occasionally my 14.2hh cob. Max horse weight 500kg.
Would this be possible?
And would a C test be needed to drive a vehicle after downplating just because it 'used' to be over the 3.5t weight??
Sorry for the rambly post 
Any help very much appreciated!


----------



## ROG (30 April 2014)

Emmalou.e said:



			Hi
New on the forum and needing to pick some brains regarding downplating a lorry.
Looking at a 5.5 ton and wondered if it would be possible to downplate to a 3.5 ton so I can drive it on my licence without having to take my C/C1 test?
Would only plan on carrying a sec a and occasionally my 14.2hh cob. Max horse weight 500kg.
Would this be possible?
And would a C test be needed to drive a vehicle after downplating just because it 'used' to be over the 3.5t weight??
Sorry for the rambly post 
Any help very much appreciated!
		
Click to expand...

Weighbridge it to find empty weight

Now take empty weight from 3500 and see how much payload that leaves for everything which will add weight such as people horse fuel tack coffee flask etc etc

If there is enough payload for everything then down plate it from 5.5 to 3.5

I have never gone through a down plate process so perhaps a google search on that might help or call DVLA and/or VOSA

The licence required goes on the plated weight at the time not what it could be or was before


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## Emmalou.e (30 April 2014)

Fantastic!
Thanks for that


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## DragonSlayer (24 May 2014)

...just to double-check this....

OH's boss is ADAMANT we need the CPC licence even though we are going to be driving our 7.5 lorry privately, I'm adamant we don't...

Who is correct??


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## ROG (24 May 2014)

DragonSlayer said:



			...just to double-check this....

OH's boss is ADAMANT we need the CPC licence even though we are going to be driving our 7.5 lorry privately, I'm adamant we don't...

Who is correct??



Click to expand...

You are

The driver cpc and operator cpc are for LGV vehicles used commercially

OH boss needs to read the law more carefully and if in the transport industry that boss really needs to get up to speed


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## maggiehorse (24 May 2014)

hi rog  my son passed his c1 (i think thats right , he can drive any rigid body lorry)   he has bought a 7 1/2 tonne recovery lorry (which has a tacho he fills in each time he drives it )  he uses it at weekends to transport his off roader for recreation , his full time job is driving to clients around the southwest , is he breaking the law driving at weekends?


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## ROG (24 May 2014)

maggiehorse said:



			hi rog  my son passed his c1 (i think thats right , he can drive any rigid body lorry)   he has bought a 7 1/2 tonne recovery lorry (which has a tacho he fills in each time he drives it )  he uses it at weekends to transport his off roader for recreation , his full time job is driving to clients around the southwest , is he breaking the law driving at weekends?
		
Click to expand...

C1 is for LGVs with a max GVW of 7.5 tonnes
C is for all LGV rigids with no upper max GVW

A C1 used privately is OUT OF SCOPE for the tacho regs so the weekend driving counts as REST for the regs

What I strongly suggest he does is to set the digi tacho to OUT OF SCOPE or insert an analogue card and mark that OUT OF SCOPE so that the authorities do not bombard him with questions and cause him grief


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## DragonSlayer (24 May 2014)

ROG said:



			You are

The driver cpc and operator cpc are for LGV vehicles used commercially

OH boss needs to read the law more carefully and if in the transport industry that boss really needs to get up to speed
		
Click to expand...

Thank you very much!


----------



## maggiehorse (24 May 2014)

ROG said:



			C1 is for LGVs with a max GVW of 7.5 tonnes
C is for all LGV rigids with no upper max GVW

A C1 used privately is OUT OF SCOPE for the tacho regs so the weekend driving counts as REST for the regs

What I strongly suggest he does is to set the digi tacho to OUT OF SCOPE or insert an analogue card and mark that OUT OF SCOPE so that the authorities do not bombard him with questions and cause him grief
		
Click to expand...

thanks very much rog thats very helpfull


another area of confusion is wether my husband has to fill in a log book when he transports his own horses to competitions at weekends and evenings , he works full time and what he needs to do about his tacho


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## ROG (24 May 2014)

maggiehorse said:



			thanks very much rog thats very helpfull


another area of confusion is wether my husband has to fill in a log book when he transports his own horses to competitions at weekends and evenings , he works full time and what he needs to do about his tacho
		
Click to expand...

If using any vehicle under 7.5 tonnes GVW then its out of scope for the tacho regs and is NOT a commercial enterprise 

A commercial enterprise is the using of the vehicle in a business situation making or intending to make a profit


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## Gemmabel (2 June 2014)

ROG

just wanted to say thanks for answering my queries regarding my lorry license. I used Kent Metro Ltd to take my test last week and passed 1st time  I took them as a recommendation from your site & wanted to say they were very helpful, professional, lovely people and would recommend them to anyone in the area needing training.

Thanks Gemma


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## ROG (2 June 2014)

Gemmabel said:



			ROG

just wanted to say thanks for answering my queries regarding my lorry license. I used Kent Metro Ltd to take my test last week and passed 1st time  I took them as a recommendation from your site & wanted to say they were very helpful, professional, lovely people and would recommend them to anyone in the area needing training.

Thanks Gemma
		
Click to expand...


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## rema (8 September 2014)

ROG, please could i have some of your invaluable information... I am going to do my C1 test and wondered if you could recommend a training place in Devon or Cornwall...Got my Medical tomorrow and looking into booking my Theory/Hpt..The company i have looked at (Celtic Training seems really expensive and you take the test in a 7.5t wagon as opposed to a Long wheel base van) which i would prefer..Any ideas most gratefully received


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## ROG (8 September 2014)

rema said:



			ROG, please could i have some of your invaluable information... I am going to do my C1 test and wondered if you could recommend a training place in Devon or Cornwall...Got my Medical tomorrow and looking into booking my Theory/Hpt..The company i have looked at (Celtic Training seems really expensive and you take the test in a 7.5t wagon as opposed to a Long wheel base van) which i would prefer..Any ideas most gratefully received
		
Click to expand...

You might as well do C if the only choice for C1 is in a 7.5 lorry

I will try and see if I can find a company down your way that does C1 with a van but I do not hold out much hope


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## rema (8 September 2014)

Thank you ROG..Central training and Westcountry training do not seem to be operating now..


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## ROG (8 September 2014)

http://www.torpedotraining.co.uk/



01237 441 052

Training and testing in Plymouth with a second hand ambulance - sorry no blue lights working !


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## rema (8 September 2014)

Thanks ROG..Will have a look..


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## angiek (10 September 2014)

(Have searched the forums for info on this but can't find it, sorry if same question already asked)
My daughter does some freelance teaching of horse riders on their own horses, some mucking out and hacking/schooling for a few people, and teaches one day a week at a riding school. She has her own horses which she transports in our lorry to shows/competitions/schooling venues. She is 28 years old and passed her LGV last year. She does not drive a lorry for anyone else, nor transport any horses for financial reward. Occasionally one of the people she teaches may hitch a lift with her to a show, and contribute to fuel costs, but she is not paid as a driver as such. We have read and reread all the info we can find about the new CPC 'card' and training requirements for this, but still cannot work out of she has to have this?
Thanks in advance to anyone who actually KNOWS the law and can advise us!


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## ROG (10 September 2014)

angiek said:



			(Have searched the forums for info on this but can't find it, sorry if same question already asked)

My daughter does some freelance teaching of horse riders on their own horses, some mucking out and hacking/schooling for a few people, and teaches one day a week at a riding school. 

She has her own horses which she transports in our lorry to shows/competitions/schooling venues. She is 28 years old and passed her LGV last year. 

She does not drive a lorry for anyone else, nor transport any horses for financial reward. Occasionally one of the people she teaches may hitch a lift with her to a show, and contribute to fuel costs, but she is not paid as a driver as such. 

We have read and reread all the info we can find about the new CPC 'card' and training requirements for this, but still cannot work out of she has to have this?

Thanks in advance to anyone who actually KNOWS the law and can advise us!
		
Click to expand...

If the lorry is not being used in any commercial way (making or intending to make a profit) then it is private (should be taxed as such) so does NOT NEED DCPC for the driver = no DQC (driver cpc card) required

That is 100% correct legally


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## ROG (10 September 2014)

A PS to the above post ...

If the lorry is over 7500 kg GVW (LGV C1) then it comes under full tacho regs


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## BCG (7 October 2014)

Hi ROG, just wondering if you could help me. My lorry is an F reg, and over 7500kg GVW. I've been told that as it is now over 25 years old it is exempt from the European driving regs. Is this right?
Thanks for the help,
BCG


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## ROG (7 October 2014)

BCG said:



			Hi ROG, just wondering if you could help me. My lorry is an F reg, and over 7500kg GVW. I've been told that as it is now over 25 years old it is exempt from the European driving regs. Is this right?
Thanks for the help,
BCG
		
Click to expand...

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...chographs-goods-vehicles-in-gb-and-europe.pdf = page 14 EXEMPTIONS for UK

Commercial vehicles that have a historic status according to the legislation of the Member State in which they are driven and that are used for the noncommercial carriage of goods
.
In the UK, a vehicle is a historic vehicle if it was manufactured more than 25 years before the occasion on which it is being driven.


I assume this is for private use?


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## BCG (7 October 2014)

ROG said:



https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...chographs-goods-vehicles-in-gb-and-europe.pdf = page 14 EXEMPTIONS for UK

Commercial vehicles that have a historic status according to the legislation of the Member State in which they are driven and that are used for the noncommercial carriage of goods
.
In the UK, a vehicle is a historic vehicle if it was manufactured more than 25 years before the occasion on which it is being driven.


I assume this is for private use?
		
Click to expand...

Thanks for the link ROG, I will have to wait until later tonight to look at it. Yes the lorry is only for private use. I try to start it take it for a little run round every weekend and just wanted to check I'm not doing anything I shouldn't!


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## ROG (2 November 2014)

This DVLA PDF might be useful for the explanation of driving licences etc especially the bottom of page 7 as well as pages 8, 9 & 10
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/208103/ins57p.pdf


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## Xtra (17 November 2014)

hi  a friend is looking to tow a double trailer (one horse) with a ford focus.  Reading up on it this doesnt look safe.  Will they be ok with just one horse?


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## ROG (17 November 2014)

Answered in post number 1951 here = https://forums-secure.horseandhound...-to-HHO-Towing-Clinic&p=12695111#post12695111


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## Optimist (2 December 2014)

Hi Rog, My 20 year old daughter and I are trying to fill in form D2, and are stuck on question 1..... Obviously she needs to apply for C, but what is the benefit of D as per your original post? She wants to get it right!!  Also, does she need to have the medical before applying? 

Do you have any recommendations for training schools near us? We are between Grantham and Melton Mowbray.

Finally, re trailer towing, assuming she has the correct provisional licence (do we need to apply for that or is it automatic?) Can I sit next to her on L plates? I have grandfather rights only (and know I can't sit next to her in our 7.5t lorry)

Thank you so much in advance.


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## ROG (2 December 2014)

Optimist said:



			Hi Rog, My 20 year old daughter and I are trying to fill in form D2, and are stuck on question 1..... Obviously she needs to apply for C, but what is the benefit of D as per your original post? She wants to get it right!!  Also, does she need to have the medical before applying? 

Do you have any recommendations for training schools near us? We are between Grantham and Melton Mowbray.

Finally, re trailer towing, assuming she has the correct provisional licence (do we need to apply for that or is it automatic?) Can I sit next to her on L plates? I have grandfather rights only (and know I can't sit next to her in our 7.5t lorry)

Thank you so much in advance.
		
Click to expand...

By ticking C &D only on the D2 form it enables the driver to be medically covered by the D4 form for the whole lot which could be useful in the future - no extra cost for doing that


*SUPERVISING A B+E LEARNER*
In April 2010 new rules were introduced for those supervising certain learner drivers but they only affected those supervising VOCATIONAL categories such as C1 C1+E D1 & D1+E where the supervising driver had those categories given to them for free when they passed a pre 1997 car test.
They do not affect those with a pre 1997 B+E licence who wish to supervise a B+E learner.

*All B licence holders have B+E provisional on the paper part of their licence and can tow an empty or loaded trailer on all roads including motorways. *

The usual rules apply when a learner is driving - 
The supervising driver must be aged over 21
The supervising driver must have held a B+E licence for at least 3 years
L plates must be fitted to the front of the vehicle and the rear of the trailer
Correct insurance for a B+E learner
The supervising driver does not need to be insured unless they are driving

If going for C or C1 or B+E then I can HIGHLY recommend - http://www.dataacademy.co.uk/category-c


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## Tern (11 January 2015)

Heya ROG, couldn't PM you but was told that if you passed driving text by "x" year you could drive a 7.5 ton with no additional tests? If this is true please could you confirm the year? many thanks.


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## ROG (11 January 2015)

Tern said:



			Heya ROG, couldn't PM you but was told that if you passed driving text by "x" year you could drive a 7.5 ton with no additional tests? If this is true please could you confirm the year? many thanks.
		
Click to expand...

Those who passed the car test before 01/01/1997 got given free LGV C1 allowing the driver up to 7.5 tonnes GVW

To drive a LGV C1 commercially you now also need a DQC = driver CPC card

Private LGV C1 horsebox does not need DQC and does not come under EU tacho regs

The free pre 97 LGV C1 is medically valid until age 70


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## HMIS13 (28 January 2015)

Hi ROG,

I am looking to do my Cat C training soon in the Southampton area, is there anyone you could recommend for the training?

Thanks


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## ROG (28 January 2015)

HMIS13 said:



			Hi ROG,

I am looking to do my Cat C training soon in the Southampton area, is there anyone you could recommend for the training?

Thanks
		
Click to expand...

Best bet - check out the members recommendations on the trucknetuk site newbies forum


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## Zerotolerance (28 January 2015)

Hi ROG,

Thanks for all the info & clarification on here - really helpful and much appreciated.

Quick question regarding the EU Other Work regulations and apologies if this has been asked and answered elsewhere - haven't read the entire 17 page thread!

I have a Cat C licence and drive our 18ton horsebox and religiously fill in my analogue tacho cards. (Despite being told be a VOSA tester that he wasn't going to check the tacho as truck being private didn't need one!!! I did double check with VOSA as was convinced I was right and report him for misinformation....)  
I am a self employed consultant and usually work 3-4 days per week. I can be flexible about the days I work, so what would be the best option to allow me to drive to shows on both Sat and Sun? 
Also I have to date been keeping a diary in the lorry in which I record other work, plus driving, however I see that this is actually insufficient and I should be keeping cards for each day - is there anywhere that these can be bought or downloaded from, or do I just design my own?

Many thanks.

PS -A useful tip for medicals - I used a company called "Doctors on Wheels" last time and had my medical in a camper van in a lay by on the side of the A21 - at a very reasonable price if a little strange!!


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## ROG (28 January 2015)

Zerotolerance said:



			Hi ROG,

Thanks for all the info & clarification on here - really helpful and much appreciated.

Quick question regarding the EU Other Work regulations and apologies if this has been asked and answered elsewhere - haven't read the entire 17 page thread!

I have a Cat C licence and drive our 18ton horsebox and religiously fill in my analogue tacho cards. (Despite being told be a VOSA tester that he wasn't going to check the tacho as truck being private didn't need one!!! I did double check with VOSA as was convinced I was right and report him for misinformation....)  
I am a self employed consultant and usually work 3-4 days per week. I can be flexible about the days I work, so what would be the best option to allow me to drive to shows on both Sat and Sun? 
Also I have to date been keeping a diary in the lorry in which I record other work, plus driving, however I see that this is actually insufficient and I should be keeping cards for each day - is there anywhere that these can be bought or downloaded from, or do I just design my own?

Many thanks.

PS -A useful tip for medicals - I used a company called "Doctors on Wheels" last time and had my medical in a camper van in a lay by on the side of the A21 - at a very reasonable price if a little strange!!
		
Click to expand...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tachograph-...=1422462952&sr=8-1&keywords=tachograph+charts = One supplier but google for others

Diary is good as a back up

As a private LGV the tacho seal must be in place but that's it - no regular calibration checks needed

Official records only need to be made for each day worked in a week (sunday midnight to sunday midnight) where any EU regs driving was done
No records need to be made for non EU reg driving weeks
Each days record must have your name date start and finish time on it
Each record can be binned after 29 calendar days

Simplest way I can say this is ....... not legally precise but should do ....
No more than 6 days in a row can be worked which by default means each week will have one day off
At least every other week must have 2 days off together
Any day off that includes sunday midnight may be used for the week ending or the week starting but not both


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## Zerotolerance (28 January 2015)

Thanks for speedy reply ROG - that's interesting re tacho. Having been told one year that I didn't (a) need to use it at all - which I ignored as per my original post and (b) it didn't need calibrating either, then the following year (different VOSA guy) truck failed as tacho hadn't been calibrated!

I have boxes of the paper tacho discs as per your link as that's what I already use for the tacho in truck, so can I just use one of these to manually record "other work" for EU purposes in the weeks where I drive?

I don't work Fridays, so if every other week I don't work Thursday too, think that means I'm okay....


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## ROG (28 January 2015)

Zerotolerance said:



			Thanks for speedy reply ROG - that's interesting re tacho. Having been told one year that I didn't (a) need to use it at all - which I ignored as per my original post and (b) it didn't need calibrating either, then the following year (different VOSA guy) truck failed as tacho hadn't been calibrated!

I have boxes of the paper tacho discs as per your link as that's what I already use for the tacho in truck, so can I just use one of these to manually record "other work" for EU purposes in the weeks where I drive?

I don't work Fridays, so if every other week I don't work Thursday too, think that means I'm okay....
		
Click to expand...

YES and YES


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## avthechav (28 January 2015)

Hi ROG, do u have any feedback on Phil Browns transport training specialists in Droitwich Worcester? http://www.philbrownlgvtraining.co.uk. Thanks /


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## ROG (28 January 2015)

avthechav said:



			Hi ROG, do u have any feedback on Phil Browns transport training specialists in Droitwich Worcester? http://www.philbrownlgvtraining.co.uk. Thanks /
		
Click to expand...

No personal experience or direct feedback

Is that the nearest place to you?


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## avthechav (29 January 2015)

Looks like one of them, I did my medical there on sat and it seemed like a nice set up and I liked the thought of the free initial assessment service that they offer.  I am based in evesham Worcestershire and am open to recommendations if you have any


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## ROG (29 January 2015)

JLD at Banbury - they have their own test center and training center near Oxford


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## avthechav (29 January 2015)

Thanks Rog, I will have a look


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## ROG (22 February 2015)

Came across these videos all by the same training provider (who does plug his own company from time to time = expected) that explain much of what you need to know
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCA4tO3fAovBEPmZ4mOcae5A
The driver cpc bit can generally be ignored because for the private (non commercial) driving of a horsebox it is not needed unless you are driving a LGV C and are aged under 21


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## ROG (2 April 2015)

avthechav said:



			Hi ROG, I have just finished a CAT C driving course with Phil Brown's LGV driver training in Droitwich and they were completely fab. When I asked you, you said that you had not had experience or heard of them but just wanted to give you a recommendation for them in case anyone wanted to know good places in Worcestershire .
		
Click to expand...

Thank you for that


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## Mariposa (2 April 2015)

Hi Rog

I'm completely confused and I hope you can help! Do you have to have a Drivers CPC if you just drive your own horses to competition? If I go to polo and drive my own ponies ( in a 7.5 tonne LGV)  I thought I didn't need one, but I'm hearing through the polo grapevine that you do? And if our groom drives the ponies does she need one ( I'm assuming yes?!)  SO confused!


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## ROG (2 April 2015)

Mariposa said:



			Hi Rog

I'm completely confused and I hope you can help! Do you have to have a Drivers CPC if you just drive your own horses to competition? If I go to polo and drive my own ponies ( in a 7.5 tonne LGV)  I thought I didn't need one, but I'm hearing through the polo grapevine that you do? And if our groom drives the ponies does she need one ( I'm assuming yes?!)  SO confused!
		
Click to expand...

No dcpc for you - no tacho for you as its private less than 7.5 tonnes GVW

Yes dcpc for groom as its being done commercially as part of a business - tacho could be needed but a distance exemption may apply if never goes more than 100 km from base


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## Mariposa (2 April 2015)

Ok - brilliant. That makes sense! Thanks ROG


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## A1dexter (16 April 2015)

Hi there,

 I have recently purchased a trailer and collect it on Saturday. I have read up on the laws but can't seem to make 100% sense of them and obviously want to be legal!

 So, I passed my driving test after 1997 so will be required to hold my B+E license in order to drive it alone. My question relates to driving with someone who holds a license pre 1997 -

 If I am in the car with someone who passed their test in 1990 (but hasn't since done a separate test for towing) can I drive legally with L plates displayed? On a separate note, if the answer to the above question is yes, can I drive on the motorway?

 I aim to complete the B+E test later on in the year but would like to have some experience initially so I don't have to book as many days training as it is ridiculously priced!

 Apologies if this has been asked before - I did search the forum but couldn't find anything specific.

 Thanks in advance.      
Read more at http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/foru...aws-Urgent-advice-please!#ifMeTtrlrx0KdwoK.99


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## ROG (16 April 2015)

ANSWERED IN HHO TOWING CLINIC THREAD IN POST NUMBER 2213 = https://forums-secure.horseandhound...-to-HHO-Towing-Clinic&p=12885983#post12885983


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## A1dexter (16 April 2015)

Thank you!


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## popsdosh (16 April 2015)

ROG said:



			No dcpc for you - no tacho for you as its private less than 7.5 tonnes GVW

Yes dcpc for groom as its being done commercially as part of a business - tacho could be needed but a distance exemption may apply if never goes more than 100 km from base
		
Click to expand...

Vosa are starting to take a view that if there is prize money involved it then becomes commercial use and will take you out of private use,so CPC and tacho would be required its a very grey area with horse sport and prize money and sponsorship.


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## ThomasandTia (16 April 2015)

No tachograph needed for personal use providing you are transporting your own goods in this case horses


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## ROG (17 April 2015)

popsdosh said:



			Vosa are starting to take a view that if there is prize money involved it then becomes commercial use and will take you out of private use,so CPC and tacho would be required its a very grey area with horse sport and prize money and sponsorship.
		
Click to expand...

No they are not - its a myth

Commercial is to make or intend to make a profit and that fact remains


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## popsdosh (17 April 2015)

ThomasandTia said:



			No tachograph needed for personal use providing you are transporting your own goods in this case horses
		
Click to expand...

This is where the grey areas appear as if you are winning prize money this then moves you into commercial use. You may feel this is wrong( as I do) but it is an interpretation VOSA are using to justify their actions because then you can add operator licences. You can get away with a tacho exemption if not travelling to far from your base but the others still apply. One large county show last season they pulled over lorries displaying winning rossettes(Everyone puts them in the windscreen) and then questioned the occupants about the prize money they had won. Sometimes they appear to have nothing better to do!!!!


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## popsdosh (17 April 2015)

ROG said:



			No they are not - its a myth

Commercial is to make or intend to make a profit and that fact remains
		
Click to expand...

Like I say a grey area between covering cost and gaining which depends on level of prize money. Its not so much they are prosecuting people but they are targeting shows where they know the Prize money is higher than normal and then questioning people carefully to establish the facts. Issuing fixed penalty tickets has not made VOSA many friends as when they issue them most people will not be faffed with fighting the legal margins.


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## ROG (17 April 2015)

popsdosh said:



			This is where the grey areas appear as if you are winning prize money this then moves you into commercial use. You may feel this is wrong( as I do) but it is an interpretation VOSA are using to justify their actions because then you can add operator licences. You can get away with a tacho exemption if not travelling to far from your base but the others still apply. One large county show last season they pulled over lorries displaying winning rossettes(Everyone puts them in the windscreen) and then questioned the occupants about the prize money they had won. Sometimes they appear to have nothing better to do!!!!
		
Click to expand...

If you believe you are correct then produce your evidence otherwise please make it clear that this is your own personal belief and not a fact

FACT - to win prize money and rossettes etc is NOT a commercial enterprise
http://www.vosa.gov.uk/guide-for-horsebox-owners = see case study #1 on page 8


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## popsdosh (17 April 2015)

As I said its a question of interpretation as later on in that document under CPCs it says minimal prize money without stating a limit.


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## ROG (17 April 2015)

popsdosh said:



			As I said its a question of interpretation as later on in that document under CPCs it says minimal prize money without stating a limit.
		
Click to expand...

The ultimate legal definition is the word commercial

Commercial is the making or intending to make a profit

Those winning prize money during amateur events are never going to be making a profit and have no intention to do so


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## popsdosh (17 April 2015)

ROG said:



			The ultimate legal definition is the word commercial

Commercial is the making or intending to make a profit

Those winning prize money during amateur events are never going to be making a profit and have no intention to do so
		
Click to expand...

So what is your roadside test? When stopped because some of the riders are taking part in competition with professional riders ,that is why VOSA appear to be picking on higher profile events.
It could be said that if you are lucky enough to win a large cash prize you will fall foul of the law because although you had no intention of making a profit you inadvertently had which would then deem you commercial.


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## ROG (17 April 2015)

popsdosh said:



			So what is your roadside test? When stopped because some of the riders are taking part in competition with professional riders ,that is why VOSA appear to be picking on higher profile events.
It could be said that if you are lucky enough to win a large cash prize you will fall foul of the law because although you had no intention of making a profit you inadvertently had which would then deem you commercial.
		
Click to expand...

No amateur will ever make a profit from prize money - that is fact

If you have multiple horses in it and one of them is taking part in a professional commercial competition then it comes under full regs for tacho O licence and dcpc because that one horse is taking part in a commercial enterprise/business


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## ThomasandTia (17 April 2015)

When did the legislation change? If they are your own horses and not a 3rd party ie for hire or reward Then tachograph and dcpc do not come into the equation 
The key term is hire and reward


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## popsdosh (17 April 2015)

ThomasandTia said:



			When did the legislation change? If they are your own horses and not a 3rd party ie for hire or reward Then tachograph and dcpc do not come into the equation 
The key term is hire and reward
		
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Hire and reward is not used it is whether it is a commercial use! Competing for prize money may put you into this category,displaying sponsorship definitely will!


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## ROG (17 April 2015)

popsdosh said:



			Hire and reward is not used it is whether it is a commercial use! Competing for prize money may put you into this category,displaying sponsorship definitely will!
		
Click to expand...

Professional prize money is different from amateur prize money

Advertising for a business is commercial use of a vehicle


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## ThomasandTia (17 April 2015)

No body has displayed sponsorship my personal lorry has an old sponsor details on that does not put me under eu  laws nor does it if I win money at a local show if I an winning money as part of a business ie horse racing etc that is a different  ball game 
20 years a class  1 driver
6 years a national cpc holder experience  tells me this


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## Bigbenji (26 May 2015)

Hi ROG

Hoping to book myself in for the HGV test in the next few months. 
Do you have any recommendations for a company that does an all inclusive package, 3/5 day driving, theory, etc, all in one go and has a high pass rate! 

I'm based in St Albans, Hertfordshire. Have car and willing to travel if the people are nice.


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## ROG (26 May 2015)

Bigbenji said:



			Hi ROG

Hoping to book myself in for the HGV test in the next few months. 
Do you have any recommendations for a company that does an all inclusive package, 3/5 day driving, theory, etc, all in one go and has a high pass rate! 

I'm based in St Albans, Hertfordshire. Have car and willing to travel if the people are nice.
		
Click to expand...

Best place for that is the newbies forum on the trucknetuk site

Been LGV not HGV since 1991 - are you looking to do LGV C or C1 ?


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## TGM (3 June 2015)

ROG, can you clarify this for me please:

"Those who are under age 21 and wish to drive a PRIVATE LGV OVER 7.5 tonnes GVW on the public highway AFTER passing the LGV C test WILL need to take and pass the INITIAL LGV DCPC"

Daughter is 18 and is undertaking training for her C1 test in order to be able to drive our 7.5 tonne horsebox (private use).  Can you confirm that she DOESN'T need to pass her Initial CPC once she has passed her C1 in order to drive our lorry.  (Lady at the training centre thinks she does have to take her Initial CPC).  From what you say, she would only need CPC IF our lorry was over 7.5 tonne (which it is not).

To prove she needs the CPC we have been given a photocopied page from an unknown publication which states:

"The minimum age for driving vehicles in category C (and their sub-categories) is reduced to 18 where the person driving
- has a Driver CPC qualification authorising the driving of a vehicle in that class  ..."


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## ROG (3 June 2015)

TGM said:



			ROG, can you clarify this for me please:

"Those who are under age 21 and wish to drive a PRIVATE LGV OVER 7.5 tonnes GVW on the public highway AFTER passing the LGV C test WILL need to take and pass the INITIAL LGV DCPC"

Daughter is 18 and is undertaking training for her C1 test in order to be able to drive our 7.5 tonne horsebox (private use).  Can you confirm that she DOESN'T need to pass her Initial CPC once she has passed her C1 in order to drive our lorry.  (Lady at the training centre thinks she does have to take her Initial CPC).  From what you say, she would only need CPC IF our lorry was over 7.5 tonne (which it is not).

To prove she needs the CPC we have been given a photocopied page from an unknown publication which states:

"The minimum age for driving vehicles in category C (and their sub-categories) is reduced to 18 where the person driving
- has a Driver CPC qualification authorising the driving of a vehicle in that class  ..."
		
Click to expand...

A person can take a LGV C1 or C training course & test without the need for dcpc

It is only if under age 21 and driving a LGV C privately that dcpc will be needed
LGV C1 driven privately if under age 21 does not need dcpc


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## TGM (3 June 2015)

Thank you!


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## ThomasandTia (3 June 2015)

Ie if you intend on driving for a living you need dcpc for private use only no dcpc is needed


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## ROG (3 June 2015)

ThomasandTia said:



			Ie if you intend on driving for a living you need dcpc for private use only no dcpc is needed
		
Click to expand...

Unless you are driving a private (not for a living) LGV over 7.5 tonnes GVW and are under age 21

This is the quid-pro-quo for the lowering of the age from 21 to 18 for those driving any LGV over 7.5 GVW when under age 21


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## Stroppy Mare (4 June 2015)

Can I recommend Peter Smythe training for anyone wanting to do their LGV licence. I have passed after the course, and the instructors are fab. Really enjoyed it.


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## ROG (5 June 2015)

Stroppy Mare said:



			Can I recommend Peter Smythe training for anyone wanting to do their LGV licence. I have passed after the course, and the instructors are fab. Really enjoyed it.
		
Click to expand...

Peter Smythe are the sponsors of the newbies forum on the trucknetuk site and they have free accomodation for those well out of area (Mansfield notts) doing courses

There is also 10% off courses for trucknetuk members


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## ROG (8 March 2016)

Bumping this thread as it not a sticky and many may find it useful


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## blackhor2e (29 March 2016)

Hi ROG, 
I have just completed my Cat C &#127881;, and am in the process of purchasing a 7.5t Horsebox for personal use. Will I need to fill in the tachograph, or am I right in assuming I don't need to?


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## Mike007 (29 March 2016)

EP Training have been in business since the mid 70 s .A sound and reputable company.


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## ROG (30 March 2016)

blackhor2e said:



			Hi ROG, 
I have just completed my Cat C &#55356;&#57225;, and am in the process of purchasing a 7.5t Horsebox for personal use. Will I need to fill in the tachograph, or am I right in assuming I don't need to?
		
Click to expand...

Tacho exempt for private LGV driving in a vehicle not more than 75000kg GVW


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## EventerMum (31 March 2016)

Hi font of all lorry wisdom, I read above that you have to go to a weighbridge to get accurate weight, but I see on my MOT that it shows a "measured weight" of my 7.5T box - would this therefore be the weight of the lorry, or is it some other weird measurement of the loading on the axles or somesuch nonsense?!?  Obviously if it is indeed the actual weight it'll save me a trip, but if not I don't want to mislead by using something different.  Many thanks, this thread is invaluable and I hope you can answer my query.


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## ROG (31 March 2016)

EventerMum said:



			Hi font of all lorry wisdom, I read above that you have to go to a weighbridge to get accurate weight, but I see on my MOT that it shows a "measured weight" of my 7.5T box - would this therefore be the weight of the lorry, or is it some other weird measurement of the loading on the axles or somesuch nonsense?!?  Obviously if it is indeed the actual weight it'll save me a trip, but if not I don't want to mislead by using something different.  Many thanks, this thread is invaluable and I hope you can answer my query.
		
Click to expand...

I am not certain what is mean by measured weight either as its not a term I have ever heard of


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## EventerMum (31 March 2016)

Thanks very much for answering - I did a bit more googling and it sounds as if it's not the actual weight but a calculated weight adding both individual axle weights together.  Apparently the actual weight should be quite a bit less, so we're off to the local weighbridge to check it out.  Thought it was too easy, but relieved if it's not as heavy as the MOT suggested!


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## ROG (30 May 2016)

Bank holiday bump


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## Django Pony (7 November 2016)

Hi ROG, any idea how long the medical is valid for? I have my C1 Provisional licence that expires in 2026, but is the medical valid for that long or would I have to get another one done after a certain amount of time?
Thanks!


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## ROG (7 November 2016)

Django Pony said:



			Hi ROG, any idea how long the medical is valid for? I have my C1 Provisional licence that expires in 2026, but is the medical valid for that long or would I have to get another one done after a certain amount of time?
Thanks!
		
Click to expand...

Until you are aged 45 or if over 40 then it is valid for 5 years

Theory pass only lasts for 2 years


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## Django Pony (8 November 2016)

ROG said:



			Until you are aged 45 or if over 40 then it is valid for 5 years

Theory pass only lasts for 2 years
		
Click to expand...

Thanks ROG!


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## ROG (24 December 2016)

Xmas bump


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## ArcticFox (11 January 2017)

Hi Rog, 

can you advise?

I am thinking about upgrading my 7.5t horsebox to a 12t HGV. I already hold my HGV license, have had it for a few years and I have the animal transport competency cert. 

I plan to use the lorry for my own horses, and for private use. I do compete (as an amateur rider) at international events, and will be heading to Ireland this year (maybe), and possibly france/portugal etc in the future. There is an outside chance I may take a friends horse along but not for reward - they may contribute to the diesel costs. 

my questions are:

Do I need to change my license? 
do I need to do some CPD or am I ok to just go ahead and drive the hgv once upgraded?
Do I need a CPC? or some thing - I have no idea what that involves but I thought that as its for private use I am ok, however I think this might change once upgraded to HGV?? 
do I need a tacho? 
Does it make a difference if I take a friend along paying for half the diesel?
Anything else I haven't considered?


many thanks, hope you can help.


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## ArcticFox (11 January 2017)

Also, sorry to be a pain, I work mon-fri 9-5.  my journey time to work takes 25mins by car.  does this make a difference to driving the HGV?  I've read through your advice and just wanted clarification. 

many thanks


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## ROG (11 January 2017)

ArcticFox said:



			Hi Rog, 

can you advise?

I am thinking about upgrading my 7.5t horsebox to a 12t HGV.  I already hold my HGV license, have had it for a few years and I have the animal transport competency cert.  

I plan to use the lorry for my own horses, and for private use.  I do compete (as an amateur rider) at international events, and will be heading to Ireland this year (maybe), and possibly france/portugal etc in the future. There is an outside chance I may take a friends horse along but not for reward - they may contribute to the diesel costs. 

my questions are:

Do I need to change my license?  
do I need to do some CPD or am I ok to just go ahead and drive the hgv once upgraded?
Do I need a CPC? or some thing - I have no idea what that involves but I thought that as its for private use I am ok, however I think this might change once upgraded to HGV?? 
do I need a tacho?  
Does it make a difference if I take a friend along paying for half the diesel?
Anything else I haven't considered?


many thanks, hope you can help.

Also, sorry to be a pain, I work mon-fri 9-5. my journey time to work takes 25mins by car. does this make a difference to driving the HGV? I've read through your advice and just wanted clarification. 

many thanks
		
Click to expand...

I assume you have LGV C ? - I ask because the old HGV terminology went out in 1991

No need to change licence as LGV means LGV whether commercial or private

No driver CPC needed if you mean that by CPD because driver CPC if for commercial LGV driving 

Commercial would be to make or intend to make a profit so having a friend split the travel costs does not come under commercial
Friend could pay all the costs for travel in exchange for you transporting their horse as well as yours if you wanted to and that is still not commercial

YOU WILL BE SUBJECT TO THE FULL EU TACHO REGULATIONS so if you work during the week that time cannot be used as rest for the regs and must be recorded - a diary is deemed ok for the UK authorities but not for other EU countries who require those records to be officially manually recorded on separate daily analogue charts or digi print out paper

Generally, if you work mon to fri then you can only drive LGVs over 7.5 tonnes GVW privately for one day every other weekend

Commuting by car or driving private LGV under 7.5 tonnes does not need recording for EU regs


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## ROG (19 January 2017)

Llee94 said:



			Need to get my HGV license to gain a bit of independence. 
Have gotten all the paper work and booked in for my medical but where do I go from there?! 

Should I buy some HGV theory test books? If so does this look okay - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LGV-HGV-P...298124?hash=item1c640782cc:g:akoAAOSwxp9W9~Pg

Also am I going to need to get my CPC? I am just going to be driving it for non-commercial uses but I do travel all over the country to compete. Does that have any bearing on what I need to do? 
Any other tips and advice?!
		
Click to expand...

No driver CPC needed for private/non commercial LGV driving

Commercial LGV means to intend to or to make a profit

free theory - try all 1000 = http://mocktheorytest.com/highway-code/heavy_vehicle/

HPT - cannot help with that but you might be able to find a couple of online free practice ones - same as the car HPT test but need to score more for LGV


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## HorsesRule2009 (5 March 2017)

Hello,

I'm wanting to take my lgv test I'm based Gloucester Hereford way, cam you recommend anywhere?  

Thank you


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## ROG (5 March 2017)

HorsesRule2009 said:



			Hello,

I'm wanting to take my lgv test I'm based Gloucester Hereford way, cam you recommend anywhere?  

Thank you
		
Click to expand...

LGV C or C1 ?

http://www.trucknetuk.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=44667&p=503949#p503949


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## AdorableAlice (5 March 2017)

http://www.philbrownlgvtraining.co.uk/


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## HorsesRule2009 (6 March 2017)

Lgv C ideally


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## ROG (6 March 2017)

HorsesRule2009 said:



			Lgv C ideally
		
Click to expand...

Good idea now check out that link and the forum it is in

Do you need it for commercial or private use ?


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## chocolategirl (6 March 2017)

ROG said:



			Just noticed you are in Cheshire so try Chevron LGV training
		
Click to expand...

I did my C test last year with chevron and would highly recommend!


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## chocolategirl (6 March 2017)

ROG said:



			VOSA do not deal with licence issues - the DVLA do

A C1 licence is the same whether you are using it for the UK or abroad

You will need to do the initial driver CPC modules 2 & 4 if you intend to use it for commercial purposes such as for your job

I would seriously consider doing the LGV C course instead of the C1 if intending to use LGV for commercial - more difficult gearbox but otherwise its virtually the same course and test
		
Click to expand...

Would completely agree with this! I never understand why people bother with the C1 you may as well go straight for the C.


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## ROG (6 March 2017)

chocolategirl said:



			i did my c test last year with chevron and would highly recommend!
		
Click to expand...

me too


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## LCH611 (1 May 2017)

ROG I would be very grateful if you could point me in the direction of where I can find the answer to this...... we have a seasonal employee who comes in from New Zealand in april and leaves at the end of July (so is not resident for 185 days). He got all his HGV licences in NZ in 1990. Is he able to drive our 7.5 tonne horseboxes over here (to privately transport the boss' polo ponies)? And also the HGV lorry? Thanks v much - it seems v difficult to find the answer to this as I thought it was no, but when VOSA were stopping lorries on the way to polo last year, they didn't seem to have a problem with someone driving in exactly this situation.......


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## ROG (1 May 2017)

LCH611 said:



			ROG I would be very grateful if you could point me in the direction of where I can find the answer to this...... we have a seasonal employee who comes in from New Zealand in april and leaves at the end of July (so is not resident for 185 days). He got all his HGV licences in NZ in 1990. Is he able to drive our 7.5 tonne horseboxes over here (to privately transport the boss' polo ponies)? And also the HGV lorry? Thanks v much - it seems v difficult to find the answer to this as I thought it was no, but when VOSA were stopping lorries on the way to polo last year, they didn't seem to have a problem with someone driving in exactly this situation.......
		
Click to expand...

I cannot find the definitive answer on the internet for LGVs so will call DVLA tomorrow


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## ROG (1 May 2017)

These fellow members on another site found the answer - http://www.trucknetuk.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=146602&p=2317218#p2317176
If you&#8217;ve got a bus or lorry licence you can only drive buses or lorries that are registered outside Great Britain if you&#8217;ve actually driven the vehicle into Great Britain yourself.

Got that answer from following the Gov link provided by one of those members


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## ROG (3 May 2018)

BUMP as it has been a year since anyone posted on this thread


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## OrangeAndLemon (3 May 2018)

Hi ROG. Not a specific enquiry, just thinking ahead.

My horse weighs a tonne (literally - Suffolk Punch). When he was delivered this time last year he was in a modified sheep trailer (middle floor removed) being towed by a big range rover. When we moved yards we hired a company and they used a 7.5t lorry and put him across the lorry, over the back axel. He really didn't enjoy this at all. 

I only have a regular licence at the moment and wanted to get some opinions on the best long term strategy for travelling my horse. Most 3.5t horse boxes have a 1200 capacity which doesn't leave much for tack, rider, fuel, driver and other essentials, after the weight of the horse has been taken into account. 

We don't travel often but in future I'd like to do some occasional outings, likely not very far. What is the best strategy for a horse this size? Should I look at an LGV license or do you think a trailer and tow car is a better option? (I'll need to do a trailer test).


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## ROG (3 May 2018)

OrangeAndLemon said:



			Hi ROG. Not a specific enquiry, just thinking ahead.

My horse weighs a tonne (literally - Suffolk Punch). When he was delivered this time last year he was in a modified sheep trailer (middle floor removed) being towed by a big range rover. When we moved yards we hired a company and they used a 7.5t lorry and put him across the lorry, over the back axel. He really didn't enjoy this at all. 

I only have a regular licence at the moment and wanted to get some opinions on the best long term strategy for travelling my horse. Most 3.5t horse boxes have a 1200 capacity which doesn't leave much for tack, rider, fuel, driver and other essentials, after the weight of the horse has been taken into account. 

We don't travel often but in future I'd like to do some occasional outings, likely not very far. What is the best strategy for a horse this size? Should I look at an LGV license or do you think a trailer and tow car is a better option? (I'll need to do a trailer test).
		
Click to expand...

Being as it will be occasional then I would go for a trailer if you can find one suitable for his size - weight should not be an issue because on a B+E set up with a tow vehicle capable of towing say 2200 then a trailer weighing 1000 empty with a MAM of 2200 or more will be legal and safe

B+E is likely to cost max £700 whereas LGV is going to be well over £1000 all in

Getting B+E can be much cheaper if you can get in some reversing and some on road experience under B+E L rules - those that do that can often do a little training with an instructor in the morning then test in the afternoon !


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## OrangeAndLemon (3 May 2018)

Thank you.


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## HorsesRule2009 (12 May 2018)

Hello
I'm due to sit my cat c next week, any tips/words of advice?

Thank you


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## ROG (13 May 2018)

HorsesRule2009 said:



			Hello
I'm due to sit my cat c next week, any tips/words of advice?

Thank you
		
Click to expand...

http://www.trucknetuk.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=44667


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## Farmer Chalk (13 May 2018)

Mirrors mirrors mirrors.... hang back on the approach to any hazard and let it develop and give yourself thinking time... don&#8217;t go into the hazard without anticipating your next move...


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## ROG (13 May 2018)

Farmer Chalk said:



			Mirrors mirrors mirrors.... hang back on the approach to any hazard and let it develop and give yourself thinking time... don&#8217;t go into the hazard without anticipating your next move...
		
Click to expand...

That would be plan A
Now have plans B & C ready in case plan A is a no go

If you have 3 plans in your head then which is the SAFEST one ?


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## ROG (12 October 2018)

BUMP as not posted in for a few months !


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## ROG (25 May 2019)

BANK HOLIDAY BUMP


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## ROG (24 December 2019)

XMAS BUMP


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## MrsMozart (24 December 2019)

No questions, but it's interesting reading, thank you ROG and all other contributors


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