# Riding School Riders?



## Shantara (10 January 2012)

In another thread, a number of people have said that riding school riders have no idea about 'real life riding'. I just wanted to know what was meant by that (I didn't want to hijack a thread!) 

I don't think all riding school riders are clueless! 

At my riding school, it's certainly NOT just pottering around the school on a dead-pan horse.

When we arrive, we must:
Muck out
Feed and water
Catch our own horse
Groom 
Tack it up
Ride it
Untack
Brush down or sponge if sweaty
Rug up (if needs be) 
Stable or put out

And our lessons consist of:
Either jumping in the school, which often tests us and is never easy
XC jumping out in the fields
A hack, which is honestly more like a hunt sometimes!
Or a lesson in the school which tests our knowledge (such as, do we know how to trot up correctly, can we learn to do a new dressage move, can we name a body part of a horse each time we rise in trot etc etc..)
Or even something else!


Sorry for the mini rant! 

Have you ever been to a riding school which has 'broken the mold' in a good way?


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## Pearlsasinger (10 January 2012)

It is usually fairly easy to spot RS riders on here, from their posts.  
Which says it all really.

Of course this could just be because of a lack of experience, which can only come from being involved with horses for years and years, in whatever capacity.  Most RS riders do not have much experience.


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## xxRachelxx (10 January 2012)

Sounds like a good riding school to me! Although do all riders have to do all that you mentioned or do you do that because you enjoy it?

I have worked in riding schools where the rider has the horse bought to them in the school and then has them taken off them at the end of the ride so they literally know nothing other than the riding aspect. It was lovely when a rider turned up early to help tack up or stayed late to help untack and turnout!


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## mulledwhine (10 January 2012)

Where I learnt there was certainly a good mix of different horses and ponies.  Small reliable ponies right up to horses that only the owner and the most competent rider was allowed on.

I do not think it is fair to always think that riding school horses are all plods, and to be honest the vast amount of people learned about horses and how to ride at schools.


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## JFTDWS (10 January 2012)

There's none so blind as those who cannot see...


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## katastrophykat (10 January 2012)

as i said in the other post- mine did!


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## Shantara (10 January 2012)

xxRachelxx said:



			Sounds like a good riding school to me! Although do all riders have to do all that you mentioned or do you do that because you enjoy it?

I have worked in riding schools where the rider has the horse bought to them in the school and then has them taken off them at the end of the ride so they literally know nothing other than the riding aspect. It was lovely when a rider turned up early to help tack up or stayed late to help untack and turnout!
		
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I do it because I enjoy it and because I know it means a great deal to the YO as she doesn't employ people. The younger kids are expected to fill haynets, bring in their own pony, give it a brush and at least attempt to tack it up (under close supervision!) 

I left the last riding school I went to, because it was like you described. I wasn't even allowed to visit the horses in the stables and that's what I love most about horses! The bonding you do on the ground! I think that's one of the many reasons I lost all my confidence at that yard. I didn't know a single horse there, even after riding for 2yrs+ there!


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## Holly Hocks (10 January 2012)

I don't believe all riding school riders are clueless - lets face it, most of us learned to ride there, and from a personal point of view after learning to ride, I got my first horse.  I sold him a few years later and then moved to London where I couldn't afford and didn't have time to have my own horse.  So I rode at a riding school while I was there.  I then moved up to Cumbria where I am now and went to the local riding school.  I used to get all the new horses to try out and see whether they were suitable and got to school some of the younger horses.  So for a lot of people a riding school can be a stop gap between owning horses - it doesn't mean that they're all beginners.  In fact it was the first riding school which I went to in Cumbria which gave me my first taste of TBs - a taste that went on to become an out and out passion.


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## mulledwhine (10 January 2012)

Forgot to add, we were expected to take up and if needs be, also give feeds, bHS exams were also available.


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## rhino (10 January 2012)

I think one of the main factors is the inability of a lot of rs riders to plan and carry out successful schooling/jumping sessions without being 'taught'. The number of times I have seen people aimlessly wandering around the school with only the occasional change of pace or circle or cantering round and round (and round and round) the school over one or two jumps just for the sake of it. Bit of a giveaway  There have been a number of videos on HHO in recent months where the riders have been far too 'passive' and seem unaware of what to do next or how to 'improve' the horse's way of going.

I don't think this is a skill you can learn easily when you only ride once a week and the horse is ridden by a variety of different riders. You don't get the level of 'feel' as when you have your own horse and ride every day


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## ester (10 January 2012)

I was an RS rider until 18 and bas being there all school holidays/weekends etc but the quality of the instruction somewhat limited. At 18 I started riding other peoples, I don't think I was very good at schooling alone etc at that point I certainly learnt a LOT by riding other people's horses outside of the RS environment. I only got pone age 22 and learnt lots from him too you kind of work out how to 'improve' a horse when it is your own and you ride it every day (with the help of lots of lessons) I think lessons on your own horse also tend to be more based on the horse's way of going rather than your riding ability (which in my case I think has been a detriment at times, sometimes I would like to ignore the horse and sort myself out a bit  )

Am sorry Annielusian but I don't know any RS who would allow someone to 'school' with loose ponies in the arena at the same time as you seem to so I just can't get my head round classing yours as one of the 'good' ones


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## Quantock-cob (10 January 2012)

Annielusian, I think you are very lucky to have such a good riding school and I think you are probably getting more experience in horse care and riding than a lot of the horse owners on here. I envy the variety of your lessons - I'm sure that most of the horse owners on here do not get to have that experience every week, especially if the horses are kept on a yard without schooling facilities. 
Pearlsasinger - so how did you learn to ride? Were you at some time a novice or did you come out of the womb with "years and years of experience"?
I would much rather see our young generation of riders going to a riding school to get an education in proper horse care management and riding, than rushing into to buying a horse which will then be at the detriment of both the horse and themselves.
I rode as a teenager and then had 20 years off (job/mortgage/children took priority). At 40 I decided I had the time/money to buy a horse and went back to a riding school to brush up on my skills. I then had the opportunity to try lots of different horses before I knew what type I wanted to buy.
For those more experienced/ mature riders, please do not be snobby about riding school riders. We don't learn to drive a car without having lessons at a driving school!!


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## maisie06 (10 January 2012)

RS riders are much, much more advanced than I am. For a start they can jump, I cant even get over a pole on the ground. And they can walk, trot and canter,I cant canter. I have no "feel" when on a horse and as such I will not get on one again. 

I have had horses for over 20 years yet my "riding" is diabolical, so I think RS riders are really quite a decent bunch!!


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## dumpling (10 January 2012)

It's more so the temperament of the horse. At a riding school your unlikely to come a cross the naughty or awkward or the youngster. At the time you make think the rs 'bucker' is badly mannered. A rs is never going to have something as naughty which could be a liability.


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## Anglebracket (10 January 2012)

Before buying my own horse I rode at a riding school that rehabilitated rescue horses. In my time there I have ridden horses that bucked, planted, napped, were very spooky etc. It was certainly a steep learning curve. In comparison to that riding my own is easier in many ways. However, being responsible for my horse's education poses its own challenges.


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## sazzle44 (10 January 2012)

I'm not sure being a good rider is neccesarily about being able to ride something difficult. It's how you improve that particular horse you're riding. Anyone can get on something that has a buck or a naughty habit and cope, it's if you can ever train the horse not to do that.
I also don't think there's anything at all wrong with learning at a riding school. At least they are learning in a controlled environment on horses for that specific job. Much preferable to people with little knowledge, riding skill and perhaps not the commitment to have a horse of their own if they are not in the environment to learn to cope. And if RS lessons are all you can afford, go for it. Nothing wrong with it and it should definately be encouraged. People can't whinge about people without the neccesary knowledge looking after horses badly & then say those in riding schools don't ever and will never be any good


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## Lolo (10 January 2012)

Annielusian said:



			I don't think all riding school riders are clueless! 

At my riding school, it's certainly NOT just pottering around the school on a dead-pan horse.

When we arrive, we must:
Muck out
Feed and water
Catch our own horse
Groom 
Tack it up
Ride it
Untack
Brush down or sponge if sweaty
Rug up (if needs be) 
Stable or put out

And our lessons consist of:
Either jumping in the school, which often tests us and is never easy
XC jumping out in the fields
A hack, which is honestly more like a hunt sometimes!
Or a lesson in the school which tests our knowledge (such as, do we know how to trot up correctly, can we learn to do a new dressage move, can we name a body part of a horse each time we rise in trot etc etc..)
Or even something else!

Have you ever been to a riding school which has 'broken the mold' in a good way? 

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In answer to the last part, yes. 100% so. They had fabulous horses schooled to a very high standard, lots of turn out, amazing arenas and other facilities and an instructor who was truly brilliant. She gave me my confidence back! They run regular events and are well respected and turn out riders who are very very good.

However, amusingly, from your description I wouldn't class your RS as a good one! At best normal, with the line about hacking turning into a downright dangerous one... And your descriptions of the ponies often leaves me worried!

JFTD, I agree.


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## debsg (10 January 2012)

Annielusian, you are very lucky to get that hands on experience at your RS. I had been out of horses for years when my 10yr old daughter decided she wanted to learn to ride. When I enquired at the local BHS establishment I was told that the horses/ponies were brought into the school for the lesson and taken out afterwards, no members of the public were allowed onto the yard and certainly not permitted to help with the horses at all! This was because it was considered an insurance risk. 
I thought this was really sad. I spent many happy hours helping out at my RS as a kid. I decided to part loan a horse (now my own, Blaze, cob in my sig) and teach my daughter myself (I have my AI) and that way she got to learn all the other things necessary to becoming a horsewoman, I got to ride too  and it cost us the same as the price of one riding lesson.
Of course, a few years down the line, it has cost an awful lot more, as I now have two horses and rent a yard! But worth every penny


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## JFTDWS (10 January 2012)

Lolo said:



			JFTD, I agree.
		
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Presumably not with my unfortunate inability to pay attention when typing though   the line should read "There's none so blind as those who will not see" obviously   (I shouldn't be left in control of a keyboard, sometimes)


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## The-mad-cat-lady (10 January 2012)

Sent my kids to a riding school because they wouldn't listen to me.....
Mum knew nothing !


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## Spotsrock (10 January 2012)

Unless u hunt how would u know ur hacks are like hunts? I rest my case.


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## Shantara (10 January 2012)

Spotsrock said:



			Unless u hunt how would u know ur hacks are like hunts? I rest my case.
		
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Because everyone else at the yard hunts, I think I'm the only one who doesn't. 
They often tell me it's just like the hunts and ask why I don't go...it's not the riding that I don't like, it's the killing! But anyway, lets not turn this into a hunt thread, m'kay? 
Leave me be not killing foxes and I'll leave you be killing foxes.


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## DH1 (10 January 2012)

I used to ride my friends horses when I was younger (30 years ago) I decided to get back into riding 3 years ago and consequently went for lessons at a riding school. 'Mastered' walk trot and canter in no time at all so bought my own horse.
It came as a bit of a surprise to discover that in the real world I cannot actually ride half as well as I thought I could.
I suppose it depends to a degree on the type of horse you choose to buy/loan but I wish I had learned to ride without stirrups, establish a secure seat, establish a secure lower leg, independent hands and what I can only describe as  'feel' for what the horse is doing.
I would like to think that there are riding schools out there who do teach these things. I suppose it must be difficult for riding schools to find a balanced approach. If they make learning to ride to arduous then perhaps people wouldn't continue to go.


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## Hedwards (10 January 2012)

I think it's all down to the riding school, the OP's riding school sounds fantastic, but I don't think is all that common, will in my experience anyway. What I have found from friends who are 'riding school riders' is that they lack the ability to adjust their riding style to a 'non riding school horse' but that is not to say they're not perfectly good at riding and aren't more than capable of learning this, it is knowing what to do without having someone stand in the middle and tell you, I started at a riding school, and so did most people I know who have horses. It's a practice makes perfect situation IMO.


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## Captain Bridget (10 January 2012)

I think an RS is what you make of it. If you take the time to turn up early, stay late, help out then you'll get the experience. 

When I first started I'd just turn up, take the horse out, put it back, go. But I didn't have the knowledge to do any more. Soon they asked me to arrive early to help tack up, most amusing when they give you a 15.2hh horse and you're 10 and can't reach to do anything! But that's where I learnt to tack up. 

At my last riding school I groomed, tacked up, rode, untacked, washed down, rugged and fed. But that was because my lesson was the last of the day! I have previously passed my horse straight onto the next person riding in without it even going back to the stable. I also took the time to go and help muck out, turn out, bring in, clean tack, in return for getting to ride in staff riding lessons. 

I chose to do all this and really enjoyed getting the experience. Of course sometimes at an RS you don't get the chance to help. They'll have grooms doing it all, or working pupils or whatever. So it works two ways. Taking the opportunity and being able to take the opportunity.


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## Lolo (10 January 2012)

JFTD said:



			Presumably not with my unfortunate inability to pay attention when typing though   the line should read "There's none so blind as those who will not see" obviously   (I shouldn't be left in control of a keyboard, sometimes)
		
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The sentiment was there!


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## Holly_09 (10 January 2012)

I've been very lucky in that I pretty much learnt on a horse based at a livery yard, the owner was training to be a riding instructor. This way I was able to learn most aspects of horse management.
Saying that, I have ridden at a few riding schools, and they generally just hand you the reins and take the horse back to the stable once done. It's all about insurance and the fear of being sued! 
Previous instructor said she was fed up of teaching in some places, the kids were only allowed in a stable if there were two instructors in there with them!


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## Spiritedly (10 January 2012)

I learnt to ride in a riding school, first just going up and getting on a ready tacked up horse then progressing to mucking out for rides in return for lessons then eventually helping escort hacks etc. I had to go this route as my parents didn't have the money to buy me my own pony! I waited till I was in my 20's with a secure job before I managed to afford my own, he was a bit of a loon but I certainly never had a problem riding him just because he wasn't a plod. I started my AI training last year and there was a young girl in my group she had her own horse and had had ponies from a young age yet she couldn't all the parts of a saddle and bridle or even the points of a horse. At the end of the day I'd rather learn on a 'plod' and develop a secure, independent seat than be over-horsed and spend all my time on the deck or hanging on by the reins!


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## ClassicG&T (10 January 2012)

The first riding school I went to I started off just turning up for lessons and horse was ready but after about 9-12 months I started pony club all day Saturdays and learnt about the looking after.
Then after 4 years there I moved to a different one where I was free labour but I loved it! I started to know a hit more about the care and spotting lameness etc... And I was the yards test dummy so I was but on all kinds of horses and ponies cos I stuck on them like glue! I loved it!
Then 2 years ago I got my first pony and moved to DIY yard and loved the freedom and chance to totally look after my own pony. He's in tip top condition and has improved my riding loads. (I started riding 10 year ago this April) 
So from a pony clubber to a independant horse owner I'd say I've done alright but I'm still learning and get weekly lessons. 


Sorry for long rant hehe


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## Spotsrock (10 January 2012)

I'm with jftd i'm afraid. If u can tell a rs rider from their posts, u can def tell from their riding. If I had a quiet horse I would welcome 2 of shiny ish friends who are rs riders any day to ride them. They understand the horse. They do as asked and are kind with years of experience. Sadly as much as I love these girls they are just too exaggerated in their aids and it upsets my more forward going horse. If they bought horse similar horse and rider would develop together.  Oh and annielusian I have hunted yes, I don't believe in strong opinions without fact. Now I have experienced it I prefer to stick to drag hunt for same reasons u give for not hunting. Even then I don't go often.


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## PingPongPony (10 January 2012)

I don't think that they are rubbish like you say but i agree with what someone else said, i had my friend who rides in an rs over to ride with me, we went in the school and i got on with schooling my horse, noticed she is just walking round and round and round, i asked if shes alright and she just explained that she isn't used to this, she's used to having someone in the middle telling her what to do all the time so she really has no idea what to do with the horse. I think this is the biggest difference


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## Spotsrock (10 January 2012)

Would edit. On phone so can't. Too exaggerated and basic. Forward transitions only. No understanding of lateral movements or how aids acheive them so steering is just pull rein, no seat or leg involved.


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## Vibella (10 January 2012)

I started at a riding school when I was 10 and learnt so much there, I don't think you can tar them all with the same brush, you just have to find a good one.  I learnt everything there from the stable management side to riding.  I was recently riding back at riding school in the last 2 years while i was saving for my own and certainly didn't plod round on a beginner type horse.  A good school has a variety of horses and decent instructors our lessons were varried and were always spent working on getting the horses to work correctly and ensuring we had an effective and correct position.  Flat weeks we would be doing anything from leg yields to flying changes we always got the young green horses as they would put them on the advanced classes first.    

I've seen many a horse owner over the years who didn't have a clue how to get their horse working correctly or owned a quiet old thing that never put a foot out of place and put either of these types on anything else and they wouldn't have a clue, being a horse owner doens't make you a good rider and i don't buy the whole you don't learn to ride until you buy a horse, my 4 year old is a pleasure to bring on and I have ridden much more difficult and challenging horses in riding schools.  A good rider is somebody who can get on any horse and improve the way the horse goes doesn't matter if thats somebody who rides at a riding school or not.


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## Vibella (10 January 2012)

shiny-ISH said:



			I don't think that they are rubbish like you say but i agree with what someone else said, i had my friend who rides in an rs over to ride with me, we went in the school and i got on with schooling my horse, noticed she is just walking round and round and round, i asked if shes alright and she just explained that she isn't used to this, she's used to having someone in the middle telling her what to do all the time so she really has no idea what to do with the horse. I think this is the biggest difference 

Click to expand...

I'd say she needs to find a better riding school, when i rode at riding schools we were actively encouraged to work in open order and  work the horse in ourselves and then discuss what we felt would help improve the horse and work on it from there with the instructor offering help and support.


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## Pearlsasinger (10 January 2012)

I think the major difference between RS riders and those who have their own horses is the RESPONSIBILITY.  The responsibility for your own horse is constant, daily, present even when you are not with the horse and is certainly not confined to riding.
Even I, who have had multiple horses for years and keep them at home, so am completely responsible for them, do not feel the same responsibility for RS horses, if I go to a RS (which I do periodically).  I know that the RI will not expect the horse to do anything of which it is not capable.  I have no responsibility for its care/feeding/shoeing/dentistry/
worming etc.
I certainly do not expect any-one to be born knowing how to ride, that is not what I was saying, further up. I think that an excellent RS is a very good place to start riding.  The trouble is that excellence is very hard to find.  I'm afraid that mediocre, if not downright dangerous, seems to be the norm.  My point was that it is relatively easy to spot RS riders from their posts on here, because of the way they talk about the horses, the yard, their riding, which is very different in most cases from the way horse owners discuss things.  Most horse- owners talk more about the horses personality than anything else.


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## indi4 (10 January 2012)

I think a lot depends on the riding school, as some will only offer very basic instruction, with horses that aren't schooled to a very high standard, then there are others that offer a very high standard of instruction with well schooled horses. I think the main down fall is a lot of places hand over horse ready to go and if your lucky you may get to untack after you've ridden. The best riding school I ever went to, you were expected to groom and tack up before your lesson, and if the horse was still out had to catch it in to, then after the lesson sort the horse out to. They were an old couple who did all the work themselves and were very old school, but all there horses were well school and the instruction was very good. I think it's a shame more riding schools don't do this, as it gives you a chance to be more hands on


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## The-mad-cat-lady (10 January 2012)

Some arnt lucky enough to have their own horse/pony ...
The only way they can experience horses is at a riding school..


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## ester (10 January 2012)

yes and I think most of us would openly agree that we knew less overall as riders when we were in a RS environment, although it did give me the opportunity to ride lots of different ponies. I spent 14 years as a RS rider.


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## Shantara (10 January 2012)

Pearlsasinger: That's a very good point. I am 99.999r% sure that I could put in the time for my own horse, as if I could, I'd be up with Ned during all my spare time, so I was planning to loan him full time for just one month, to see if I could afford it, time and money wise!

The-mad-cat-lady: Yes, I often get upset that my horsey friends get to go places and do what they like, when they like and it gets me down 
But, at least I get to see ponios, I guess!


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## hcm88 (10 January 2012)

I just wrote out the biggest essay and then it logged me out and I lost it all! I will now try to remember what I put...

I learnt the basics at a riding school when I was young because my parents (although horsey) felt I would benefit more from starting out somewhere with a qualified instructor who was used to beginners on a suitable pony. It was the perfect start and although I was young I do feel the things I learnt have been extremely beneficial. I then progressed onto my own pony and this is where you really do learn a hell of a lot. What riding schools don't offer is the chance to progress and learn with each other. Generally Riding school horses (although brilliant for their purpose) know pretty much everything they're ever going to know, they know their job and do as they're told (this is generalising somewhat). There isn't the opportunity to learn with your horse and progress together, thus learning how to really really ride. You can learn the basics and a general idea of how to ride at a RS but it really is limited as to what you can get out of a horse, if this is making any sense. I think many riders at a RS hit a brick wall after a few years and feel that the only way to progress onwards is to own/loan, you don't quite know what it's like to ride a horse of your own until you've got one.

I have absolutely nothing against riding schools, they're fantastic for their purpose and teaching riders the basics etc, they're invaluable really for the majority of riders - no matter what people say most riders have started out at a riding school and this is where the fundamental parts of becoming a rider start out. There is a stigma attached and there is a LOT of snobbery, I think people forget how important riding schools actually are to every rider really, and how we all have to start from somewhere no matter who we are. If you enjoy riding at your RS then don't let anyone change that, it's only your opinion that matters really, don't worry about what anyone else thinks!


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## Fantasy_World (10 January 2012)

My first riding school when around 10 was mainly just lessons, half hour private and the occasional 1 hour group. Mostly in a school, but a few times we went into the cross country field and I did a couple of jumps. However I did then ask if I could start helping and used to groom some horses before my lesson. Didn't have a lot of time as mum didn't want to hang around and wouldn't leave me there either.
Other schools that followed involved own a pony days when we did mucking out, grooming, riding and hacking. Not really shown a hell of a lot though on the horse management side though.
Then I went mainly hacking at schools in a wide variety of places in the area. Some were pub or picnic rides. 
Also spent a day with a reknowned 'horse' lady in the area who has since passed away. Known for her get back to basics techniques with horses and used herbal remedies etc on horses. I was a young teen at the time and enjoyed a hack and some jumping and also led a girl's pony on a hack too.
Went to college later and we had riding lessons as part of the sport's afternoon at another location which was good.
Another riding school used to let you ride out alone in a field with jumps and do pretty much what you wanted to do.
Same school also allowed you to go in pairs to local woods for a hack if you were a competent rider. 
Years later as an adult I had a few lessons again and saw that the children helping out at the yard was very much in the same mould as the own a pony days of my younger years, although these were doing more such as filling nets, mucking out and bringing in and turning out ponies.
I would say that I have learned more about day to day care of horses since owning mine which will be 6 years for me this year.
I would also say that my riding has gained experience since having my own as I have been placed in situations in which I have had to deal with alone, such as a napping horse.
Something which I would never have experienced on riding school horses.
I have experienced a bolting horse at a riding school though and also on honeymoon hack when a horse decided to go the wrong way around a puddle at speed on a verge despite leg and hands telling it otherwise and it almost planting me on the windscreen of a car. 
Not as idiotic as it sounds. Ride was beside a beach down a track that only led to a landfill/tip site. Idea was a short canter down the grass and then to turn down onto the moorland to ride across. Following the instructor from the yard the horse was supposed to do the same and didn't! A hairy moment and thank gawd for a good seat too.
I think that the grounding of riding and good instructors on a one to one basis has helped. All those exercises I had to do, around the world and so on. Rising trot, with no stirrups. Canter with no reins or stirrups ( but on a lunge) and fast work, jumping with no stirrups as a child has set me up as an adult. Luckily have not had many falls at all and up until 2 years ago had not suffered a fall from a horse for around 9 years. I don't think it is due to riding good horses as they have not always been good. But I believe it is due to the grounding of establishing balance which was drilled into me.
I could imagine that the children of today whose patience is not as much as those of years gone by after being spoiled by video games and computers - rather than games of hide and seek and kiss chase which the likes of children of my generation played, would rather run before they walk. I am not sure of the lengths of instruction on a weekly basis of how quickly children advance in their riding skills these days? Do they still have the same groundings of balance which I received back in the early 80's? Or if they do is it for the same duration. I have very still hands when I ride and have been told by people that my hands are very balanced, I believe this is due to being taught correctly in the first place. I wonder if the same is true of today's lessons, are riders taught the same principles for as long, ie to sit back in seat, sit up straight, not grip with the knees and don't lean on your hands?
Sorry for long post, hope it is on topic lol


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## ClobellsandBaubles (10 January 2012)

Vibella said:



			I'd say she needs to find a better riding school, when i rode at riding schools we were actively encouraged to work in open order and  work the horse in ourselves and then discuss what we felt would help improve the horse and work on it from there with the instructor offering help and support.
		
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Ditto although I think you out grow riding schools. I went back to riding schools after loaning several ponies and although some of the instructors encouraged the above some did not which when you know better can be very frustrating and I also totally shattered my confidence jumping but that's another story. I think RS are a part of the journey that many riders have but you do reach a plateau when you stop learning and it's time to move on.


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## happyhacking:) (10 January 2012)

I wouldn't be so quick to judge rs riders. I spent much of my childhood helping out at a local school riding a huge variety of horse far far more than most horse owners will ride in their lifetime. There were those who would turn up for there lessons ride for an hr and then leave some of them were ok riders but wouldnt know where to start when it came to basic horsemanship however i have also come across lots of people who have their horses on full livery or have grooms who do all the work and they simply turn up and ride the horse!

personally i have been riding for 18years and been a horse owner for less than 2. During my time at the riding school I gained a huge amount of experience having dealt with everything from day to day mucking out and bringing horses in/out to full blown accidents with horses scattered everywhere and people being rushed to hospital. I do not pretend to be an expert but nor will I sit back and be told that i must know nothing because i went to a riding school for 16 years!


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## YorksG (10 January 2012)

I rode at a riding school as a child, until I was about 15, an excellent school with a variety of ponies and horses, some who were the competition ponies of the RS owners children. The quality of instruction was good, as was the qualitiy of the equines. The nature of the care of the horses is a good indicator, with good quality english leather tack and good  regular farriery being two of the most obvious.
However it is a steep learning curve when you own your own and it is all down to you. It will be you camping in the stable overnight in a case of colic, it will be you mending the fence in a gale, ensuring that forage, bedding, feed, wormers, foot care is all organised round your full time job, which pays for all the above. There are many hidden time users which you do not know about when you go to an RS


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## Shantara (10 January 2012)

Thinking about it...this all reminds me of a similar thing on the arty side of my life...

People often think, unless you have photoshop, or a tablet, you'll never be as skilled as a 'proper' digital artist...well, tell that to my buddy Maquenda! She did this all with that rubbish MSPaint program! http://fanart.lionking.org/Artists/Maquenda/Sarabisarafina10.png


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## fjordhorsefan (10 January 2012)

rhino said:



			I think one of the main factors is the inability of a lot of rs riders to plan and carry out successful schooling/jumping sessions without being 'taught'. The number of times I have seen people aimlessly wandering around the school with only the occasional change of pace or circle or cantering round and round (and round and round) the school over one or two jumps just for the sake of it. Bit of a giveaway  There have been a number of videos on HHO in recent months where the riders have been far too 'passive' and seem unaware of what to do next or how to 'improve' the horse's way of going.

I don't think this is a skill you can learn easily when you only ride once a week and the horse is ridden by a variety of different riders. You don't get the level of 'feel' as when you have your own horse and ride every day 

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However, having your own horses all your life doesn't automatically mean you will be able to do this - I know someone who had a pony from when she was 18 months old, is now in her 30's, and has no idea about schooling.  She does exactly what you say above.  I learned at a riding school, didn't have my own horse until I was 27, yet I can improve my horse's way of going because I have put the effort in to learn - I don't see myself as an infallable and perfect rider like the other girl I mentioned.

ETA - I am no way a brilliant rider either, but starting at a riding school gave me a foundation for progressing my riding when I did get my own horse.  When I was at the riding schools, I got to ride all sorts of naughty horses - oh to be young and brave again!!


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## CalllyH (10 January 2012)

Annielusan where do you ride? As my old riding school was amazing and near to you


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## JFTDWS (10 January 2012)

Annielusian said:



			Thinking about it...this all reminds me of a similar thing on the arty side of my life...

People often think, unless you have photoshop, or a tablet, you'll never be as skilled as a 'proper' digital artist...well, tell that to my buddy Maquenda! She did this all with that rubbish MSPaint program! http://fanart.lionking.org/Artists/Maquenda/Sarabisarafina10.png

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Oh yes, that's exactly the same.   I mean a horse is just like another piece of software, right


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## rhino (10 January 2012)

fjordhorsefan said:



			However, having your own horses all your life doesn't automatically mean you will be able to do this - I know someone who had a pony from when she was 18 months old, is now in her 30's, and has no idea about schooling.  She does exactly what you say above.  I learned at a riding school, didn't have my own horse until I was 27, yet I can improve my horse's way of going because I have put the effort in to learn - I don't see myself as an infallable and perfect rider like the other girl I mentioned.
		
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You're quite right! There's some interesting discussion on another thread about this
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=508028


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## bluewhippet (10 January 2012)

kirsty17 said:



			It's more so the temperament of the horse. At a riding school your unlikely to come a cross the naughty or awkward or the youngster. At the time you make think the rs 'bucker' is badly mannered. A rs is never going to have something as naughty which could be a liability.
		
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Maybe not in Health and Safety climate, but when I learnt to ride in London in a riding school, they had the maddest bunch of horses for the experienced riders, as well as the plods. Really some terrible people hating beasts!

I have had my own horse for only 8 months after having had a youth of helping and riding in schools. Riding schools are all some people can experience (in big cities and due to lack of finances) however passionate they are about horses. And in those circumstances, even at a riding school, a real horse mad child or adult will grab as much experience as they can. And that can be a lot and on loads of different types of horses.

It is different owning your own horse and I have learnt a vast amount. But I wouldn't dismiss all riding school customers quite so swiftly.


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## Shantara (10 January 2012)

JFTD said:



			Oh yes, that's exactly the same.   I mean a horse is just like another piece of software, right 

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Oh, har har, you know what I mean


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## The-mad-cat-lady (10 January 2012)

How did you learn to ride then ?


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## Shantara (10 January 2012)

The-mad-cat-lady said:



			How did you learn to ride then ?
		
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Me, or someone else? XD sorry!


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## sandi_84 (10 January 2012)

Pearlsasinger said:



			It is usually fairly easy to spot RS riders on here, from their posts.  
Which says it all really.

Of course this could just be because of a lack of experience, which can only come from being involved with horses for years and years, in whatever capacity.  Most RS riders do not have much experience.
		
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Wow cool riding school!



xxRachelxx said:



			Sounds like a good riding school to me! Although do all riders have to do all that you mentioned or do you do that because you enjoy it?

I have worked in riding schools where the rider has the horse bought to them in the school and then has them taken off them at the end of the ride so they literally know nothing other than the riding aspect. It was lovely when a rider turned up early to help tack up or stayed late to help untack and turnout!
		
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This was more like the riding school I first learnt at, then I went to help out at a smaller stables/riding school got into the way that it wasn't just tacking up, getting on and doing your thing before passing the horse off to someone else. It would be great if more riding schools were like the first one mentioned!


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## EllenJay (10 January 2012)

Lolo said:



			However, amusingly, from your description I wouldn't class your RS as a good one! At best normal, with the line about hacking turning into a downright dangerous one... And your descriptions of the ponies often leaves me worried!

.
		
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Must say I agree with this.  I was concerned earlier when you posted a picture of "Ned" and hadn't realised how badly overgrown his hooves were, and you hadn't been taught that if he was expected to school, hack (like hunting!), xc and sj, how much pressure was being put on his joints with such badly treated hooves.  

I would suggest that you go and look at other RS to see for yourself if your RS is actually as good as you think.


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## Thelwell_Girl (10 January 2012)

I've been riding since I was 9-ish I think, nearly 18 and I'm still not very good!  I try hard, and I want to learn. I still wobble, I get scared, but I am making (slow) progress, and while focussing on exams right now, am still trying to ride once a month to clear my head and have some fun. I've had the same instructor for a good long time now, we get on fantastically  She doesn't let me get away with anything, pushes me to achieve and get past my fears, as well as having fun. There's no point doing it if you don't enjoy it!

Have been a 'helper' at the yard for a couple of years now, we catch in, turn out, groom, tack up, muck out, clean tack, sweep the yard, do waters, fill haynets, make feeds - any of the jobs we would be doing if we had our own horses.

I feel like I've been so lucky to find them. They've given me such wonderful opportunities! I got to do a dressage test, and jump a small course of jumps, something I wouldn't normally have the chance to do. Part of the advanced pony week (some may remember my pony week diary posts  ), we had to turn out ourselves and our horses properly, and compete against eachother. My dressage test was eventful (went fantastically wrong and ended up having it called for me by the yard manager from the car!) but it was the jumping that really was unforgettable for me.

It may seem like such a small thing, but with being so so scared of even the smallest cross poles, I nearly backed out. But all the staff put the jumps down for me, and with no knocked poles (and one fall  ) I did it! I'm not afraid to say I burst into tears quite horribly when I'd finished  Everyone at the yard cheering me on, my parent's watching.. It's was the most amazing feeling. And I have my only ever pro pic to prove I did it!

So not all Riding Schools are the same - mine's muddy and busy, but the horses are happy, and so am I 

Eta: I feel very priveleged to be able to ride and very thankful my parents pay for it  Dad will even hold a horse for me, while Mum tends to stay hidden in the car


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## Kat (10 January 2012)

Some people on here are downright rude about riding schools and riding school clients. I get very sick of it. 

Yes there are some rubbish ones out there, and some dangerous ones too, but there are also fabulous ones. 

I was a riding school rider until 10 months ago when I bought my first horse. 

I've ridden long term at two riding schools. The first a rough and ready sort of place in the eighties. Then later a "good" riding school, a bhs where to train yard. I have also ridden occasionally at other places, riding schools, trecking centres, places abroad etc. 

I have learnt so much over the years. Not everything, I know my limitations, but I don't under estimate what a good riding school can teach you. 

It teaches you how to quickly assess a horse and make a plan, how to ride a huge variety of horses, how to ride in a shared arena, etc. 

During my time as a riding school client I have been taught by an fbhs, three excellent bhsi, the runner up in the young instructor of the year award and several bhsii and bhsai. I have also been taught by people who have worked for top people like Richard Davidson and Michael Whitaker. The horses have ranged from rough and ready youngsters straight from Ireland or ex-racers to those with serious competition records, including horses needing reschooling. 

I could never have gained the same experience as a single horse owner.


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## Shantara (11 January 2012)

Kat said:



			Some people on here are downright rude about riding schools and riding school clients. I get very sick of it. 

Yes there are some rubbish ones out there, and some dangerous ones too, but there are also fabulous ones. 

I was a riding school rider until 10 months ago when I bought my first horse. 

I've ridden long term at two riding schools. The first a rough and ready sort of place in the eighties. Then later a "good" riding school, a bhs where to train yard. I have also ridden occasionally at other places, riding schools, trecking centres, places abroad etc. 

I have learnt so much over the years. Not everything, I know my limitations, but I don't under estimate what a good riding school can teach you. 

It teaches you how to quickly assess a horse and make a plan, how to ride a huge variety of horses, how to ride in a shared arena, etc. 

During my time as a riding school client I have been taught by an fbhs, three excellent bhsi, the runner up in the young instructor of the year award and several bhsii and bhsai. I have also been taught by people who have worked for top people like Richard Davidson and Michael Whitaker. The horses have ranged from rough and ready youngsters straight from Ireland or ex-racers to those with serious competition records, including horses needing reschooling. 

I could never have gained the same experience as a single horse owner.
		
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This post is perfection


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## YorksG (11 January 2012)

No one said that all RS are rubbish, just that there is usually a difference between those who have only ridden at an RS and those who have kept their own horses. As for being taught by a variety of people who have worked for famous names, I have had many lessons, both at RS and on my own horses by those who taught some of the 'names' (In our area 40 years ago it was hard not to be!) I still maintain that ones real equine education is what happens after you have the basic building blocks in place from the RS, when you have sole responsibility, this may of course not be the case if you are on a big livery yard where most things are done for you, but never having been on one of these, I wouldn't like to say.


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## YorksG (11 January 2012)

I have just realised that I am having a Donald Rumsfeld moment  People do not realise that they do not know what they do not know, because they don't know that they do not know


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## glenruby (11 January 2012)

I think the point is that most of those on HHO who are deemed to look down on riding school riders have been there done that and realise now ( after years if horse ownership) that they wre nowhere near as good as they thought they were when they rode once a week at a rs.  The vast majority of riders who learnt the basics over a couple of years at a rs are better ( or perhaps just more disciplined?) than those who went out and bought a horse with only a few lessons or hacks under their belt and have just muddled along since.  
To a large extent, there is a limit to just how far one can progress when riding a seasoned horse once a week. I'm afraid it is only something most people seem able to appreciate once they get their own horse. But still, i believe good riding schools are invaluable.
I know the op's rs and certainly would not be one I would recommend to anyone. On top if that, if their hacks are anything like the op's local hunts il be d*mned. Btw op there us a very popular bloodhound hunt nearby to you - no foxes were ever involved so maybe u could give that a go- tonnes of jumping and square hedges. 
Also agree with jtfd and whoever said u can identify an rs rider from their posts.


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## Sheep (11 January 2012)

Well, we all have to start somewhere.. and it seems that rather a lot did start at an RS.

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=507980


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## kins (11 January 2012)

Interesting thread - I started riding when I was 4 (now 19), but as I had non horsey parents I only ever had an RS education. 

Riding wise it's true that I only had very basic skills until I got a new instructor a couple of years ago who stretched me a lot more than the others - expected us to warm up/cool down and keep ourselves occupied with schooling indivdually whenever she needed to concentrate on one person in the lessons. Although it was technically a jumping class she also took me back to scratch working on establishing good flatwork (inc some lateral work) before she let me anywhere near a jump. So I think it's perfectly possibly for someone to get a good education at an rs, at least the basics and occasionally a bit beyond, depending on the instructors.

I'm lucky in that I now work on a private yard (was unfeasible to help at RS due to transport isses!), so I can ride my bosses' horses regularly when i'm home from Uni, and I'm learning to get used to schooling by myself rather than having someone shouting instructions - reading a lot of books on schooling exercises helps! I'm wouldn't class myself as anything more than a novice rider, but I enjoy trying to stretch myself, and i'm hoping that over the summer i'll be able to spend a lot more time at work and hopefully get instruction from either my boss or their ex-eventer livery. Perhaps the riding schools I went to didn't give me the skills necessary to enter a 4* event, but they certainly gave me the basic skills, and the drive to make myself a better rider any way I could


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## PolarSkye (11 January 2012)

Vibella said:



			I'd say she needs to find a better riding school, when i rode at riding schools we were actively encouraged to work in open order and  work the horse in ourselves and then discuss what we felt would help improve the horse and work on it from there with the instructor offering help and support.
		
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This was my experience at a RS too . . . and now that I have my own it's exactly how my (freelance) instructors teach me.


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## TGM (11 January 2012)

Riding schools are a great place to start (I learnt at one, sent my daughter to one for a while and my current sharer is straight out of one) BUT having sole care of your own horse/pony does bring a totally different perspective.

At a riding school, if you get things wrong regularly (whether riding or management wise) it has less of a negative effect on the horse because in between the horse will (hopefully) be ridden/managed by others who get it right!  Whereas, with your own horse, you have much more responsibility because if you keep getting things wrong then the whole relationship goes into a downwards spiral.  Whilst someone might happily ride quirky horses on a regular basis at a riding school, if they were to buy a similar horse on for themselves, they are likely to find the quirks harder to deal with if they are the sole rider, unless they have a lot of good support.


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## eahotson (11 January 2012)

TGM said:



			Riding schools are a great place to start (I learnt at one, sent my daughter to one for a while and my current sharer is straight out of one) BUT having sole care of your own horse/pony does bring a totally different perspective.

At a riding school, if you get things wrong regularly (whether riding or management wise) it has less of a negative effect on the horse because in between the horse will (hopefully) be ridden/managed by others who get it right!  Whereas, with your own horse, you have much more responsibility because if you keep getting things wrong then the whole relationship goes into a downwards spiral.  Whilst someone might happily ride quirky horses on a regular basis at a riding school, if they were to buy a similar horse on for themselves, they are likely to find the quirks harder to deal with if they are the sole rider, unless they have a lot of good support.
		
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I fully agree there.Like the great majority I learned to ride (kind of) in a riding school.What concerns me is that these days many people ride for 2 plus years regularly at a riding school and, forget about schooling etc. they can't steer a horse independently.They can't do a rising trot without useing their reins as suport and can't sit or even do a forward seat canter with some stability in their seat.They are in great danger of falling off at the smallest thing.It can't be nice really for them or the horses they ride.Don't know what the answer is though.Good instructors tend to like to work freelanceand  to cost a lot of money.I do think riding school horses/ponies are the unsung heros/heroines of the horse world and I think there should be a big prestigious class or award for the riding school horse/pony of the year.


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## PaddyMonty (11 January 2012)

People seem to be missing the biggest difference between riding at a RS and owning your own...........Time in the saddle!
To become a good (hate that term) rider you need two things, quality instruction and time in the saddle.
RS riders may well get the instruction but just dont get enough time in the saddle.  Horse owners may well get the time in saddle but often lack regular quality instruction.
Put the two together and a rider can really start to develop.


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## Hippona (11 January 2012)

YorksG said:



			I rode at a riding school as a child, until I was about 15, an excellent school with a variety of ponies and horses, some who were the competition ponies of the RS owners children. The quality of instruction was good, as was the qualitiy of the equines. The nature of the care of the horses is a good indicator, with good quality english leather tack and good  regular farriery being two of the most obvious.
However it is a steep learning curve when you own your own and it is all down to you. It will be you camping in the stable overnight in a case of colic, it will be you mending the fence in a gale, ensuring that forage, bedding, feed, wormers, foot care is all organised round your full time job, which pays for all the above. There are many hidden time users which you do not know about when you go to an RS
		
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This. Its also knowing what to do when things go wrong. 
Its knowing that something actually is going wrong.
Its the total responsiblilty for meeting all of your horses needs....I spend far more time on yard chores, looking after the horses, maintaing the yard and grazing, organising hay/straw deliveries etc etc than I do actually on my horse.
 Its making sure your tack fits 'properly- knowing what bit to use and why....its endless. 

Its also totally different riding your own horse...on your own....schooling and teaching.....hacking out alone...

I think its a case of insight....after owning horses for a while....of knowing what you don't actually know....


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## Kat (11 January 2012)

I don't think anyone is suggesting that you can gain all the same skills and experiences riding in a riding school. Of course it is going to be different, but it can be a very valuable experience and it can teach you a lot. 

I think the frustration on here (and in other sectors of the horse world) is that it is assumed that if you have been riding in a riding school you are a "kick to go pull to stop" rider who can only cope with a brain dead plod and isn't quite sure which end the bridle goes. 

An awful lot of private owners have seriously questionable levels of knowledge. I've been shocked (both on here and in real life) to find people who have had horses for years but are missing really quite basic knowledge. 

I think that if you are a committed rider with a desire to learn, and a realistic sense of your own limitations then you can get your first horse straight out of a riding school and do just fine and your horse will probably be better off than it would be if it was owned by some of the "I've had horses forever brigade". 

I know you can't get all your experience from a riding school but you can get a lot. From my experience in riding schools I know that I am competent to school a horse independantly, to hack out, to jump and to compete in various disciplines. I know I can tack up and untack, groom, catch in or turn out, rug up, clean tack, muck out etc. I can also identify and understand the use of most common tack and equipment. I can identify lameness and trot a horse up. However my experience of vet type issues and dealing with injuries was until I got my own horse theoretical only, likewise my knowledge of feeding was mainly theoretical. I had never clipped a horse, had only lunged a couple of times, and hadn't had to make decisions without back up on certain things. Although my husband was taught to clip and lunge at a riding school, so it is possible. But I knew the extent of my experience and chose a yard with knowledgable staff as a precaution. 

I have met people who have owned horses for many years who don't know what basic equipment is or why they would use it. Who can't ride their horse in connection into a contact. Who don't know the first thing about basic lateral work and haven't got a clue about schooling. People who can't identify whether they are rising on the correct diagonal etc.  

I'm not saying that it is better to be a horse owner or that it is better to be a riding school client - you can't generalise as everyone is different, all you can say is that the experience you will get is different. What is crucial is a willingness to recognise what you don't know and a desire to learn. 

I think the ideal is to gain as much experience as possible in GOOD riding schools before buying your own so that you are as knowledgeable as possible before you are fully responsible for an animal's welfare. It worries me that in being so negative about riding schools and the experience you can gain there it firstly encourages people to buy their own horse before they are ready and secondly it encourages the view that these awful follow the leader kick and pull type lessons are the norm. This means that there is no incentive for those riding schools to improve and the good ones continue to be tarred with the same brush. 

What we should be saying to people is that if they aren't learning in a way that enables them to ride private horses properly then they should go and find a proper riding school that will teach them to ride. They are out there, and we should be telling the world about the good ones!

When DH and I were looking for a horse we were often faced with people who heard the words "first horse" and "riding school" and assumed we wouldn't be able to ride. We got lots of very positive comments though once we got on and rode. It is frustrating to have this happen over and over again though and then to come on here and read it again and again. 

I can honestly say that I can think of several riders from my lessons in a riding school that I would happily let ride my horse, but considerably less people that I have come across elsewhere! 

Anyway when is the lady going to post that runs a riding school and has lots of lovely horses that compete? Is it Charlie something??? 

Oh and for the record I don't think the OPs riding school sounds like one of the good ones, I think it sounds quite horrifying!


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## ester (11 January 2012)

Kat said:



			Oh and for the record I don't think the OPs riding school sounds like one of the good ones, I think it sounds quite horrifying!
		
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Charlie76  

Kat I think if you had started this post with your RS experiences the response may have been somewhat different. I reckon as many of the horse riding population started off at RS before getting their own it just means we have the best of both worlds


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## midi (11 January 2012)

I  rode a good few years as a kid at a riding school and learnt nothing! it was literally walking around and round, pop a canter and maybe a small jump for years and years.
 When I was old enough and less ignorant I realized what a joke it was and gave up riding as I wasn't getting anywhere.

I did start having lessons again few years agos and had an amazing instructor with "proper" horses and 1on1 lessons and I began to learn how to influence the horse to work properly etc, unfortunately the place was forced to be sold on and I've never found anywhere as good since and going by how much riding school lessons are these days its ALOT of money to part with to just get the going round and round type "lesson".

Since then I've only ridden privately owned horses and although I've learnt vast amount, I do feel limited due to my lack of knowledge.


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## welshies (11 January 2012)

I must admit i was pretty cluless really if i think about it! (even though i was only 12) after riding for 7 years and being at a hands on riding school much like you describe doing all the chores as well, the riding scool closed, i tried a few more but didn't like as they were all just turn up jump on the horse ride in a circle for an hour and jump off, so i started 'helping for rides' and i vividly remember the first day she asked me to tie a hay net up and she laughed!  I thought i knew a lot but in reality i knew very little really! the next 4 years were my real horse foundations, then the next 12 years of actually owning my own cemented it.  I wouldn't say all RS peops are completly cluless but you certainly have a lot to learn, but then we are all still learning, so don't take offense!


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## Sarah1 (11 January 2012)

rhino said:



			I think one of the main factors is the inability of a lot of rs riders to plan and carry out successful schooling/jumping sessions without being 'taught'. The number of times I have seen people aimlessly wandering around the school with only the occasional change of pace or circle or cantering round and round (and round and round) the school over one or two jumps just for the sake of it. Bit of a giveaway  There have been a number of videos on HHO in recent months where the riders have been far too 'passive' and seem unaware of what to do next or how to 'improve' the horse's way of going.

I don't think this is a skill you can learn easily when you only ride once a week and the horse is ridden by a variety of different riders. You don't get the level of 'feel' as when you have your own horse and ride every day 

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Agreed.

OP it sounds like you are very fortunate to have an oustanding riding school - I think yours is the exception rather than the rule.

The RS where I did BHS wouldn't permit anyone to hack out and I do think that's it's something that needs to be taught as it can be very scary & dangerous if you buy a horse & it's not 100% bombproof!

A friend is currently having lessons ast a very reputable local-ish RS and she's struggling with leg yield, the horses are very lazy and she can't quite get to grips with it.  I've offered her, when the fields dry out a bit, big lad for half an hour with our YM (accomplished event rider, excellent at producing horses) as I feel she'll find it much easier.  He's more switched on than most RS horses but not silly and 'hopefully' will be much more supple!!!!!!!  It should feel like driving a ferrari in comparison to a fiesta!!!!


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## dunkley (11 January 2012)

There are 'riding schools' and 'Riding Schools'.
A _good_, _approved_ Riding School, with a range of qualified instructors and quality horses and ponies, _insurances_, and _supervision_, is worth it's weight in gold.  Unfortunately, they do not come cheaply, and therefore there is a niche for yards that loosely term themselves 'riding schools' that can get the good ones a bad name.  A huge amount of experience can be gained from a decent school, and a huge amount of damage done by a poor one.  
However, nothing can really compare to having your own horse or pony.  It is without doubt the responsibility - a bit like taking your first baby home and it dawning on you that there is no midwife on hand for advice, but above all, it is the independance ownership brings.  Shall I walk? Shall I trot? Is it safe to canter/gallop/jump?  Making the decision to hack out/compete/call the vet.  Buying your own horse is only the start.  It might be 'perfect' enough to buy, but if you don't build on your foundations of knowledge, keep up with good quality instruction (even for a 'happy hacker' - a well schooled horse is nicer to hack than an a**e  ), it won't stay perfect that long.  It is probably more accurate to say that you can tell what _sort_ of school someone rides at, that the fact they ride at a school.  There are some cracking riders out there who have been through riding schools, but the schools will be reputable, and the names probably known further away from these shores 
I can drive a car........have done for more years than I can remember.  I have more than one car. I have driven everything from a mini to an HGV.  Would I teach someone to drive? In short, No.  I would point them in the direction of an _approved,_ _respected_ driving school, with _qualified, insured_ instructors, who _really_ know what they are doing.


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## PolarSkye (11 January 2012)

Kat said:



			I think that if you are a committed rider with a desire to learn, and a realistic sense of your own limitations then you can get your first horse straight out of a riding school and do just fine and your horse will probably be better off than it would be if it was owned by some of the "I've had horses forever brigade". 

I know you can't get all your experience from a riding school but you can get a lot. From my experience in riding schools I know that I am competent to school a horse independantly, to hack out, to jump and to compete in various disciplines. I know I can tack up and untack, groom, catch in or turn out, rug up, clean tack, muck out etc. I can also identify and understand the use of most common tack and equipment. I can identify lameness and trot a horse up. However my experience of vet type issues and dealing with injuries was until I got my own horse theoretical only, likewise my knowledge of feeding was mainly theoretical. I had never clipped a horse, had only lunged a couple of times, and hadn't had to make decisions without back up on certain things. Although my husband was taught to clip and lunge at a riding school, so it is possible. But I knew the extent of my experience and chose a yard with knowledgable staff as a precaution.
		
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This exactly.  I rode (more like tried not to fall off) friends' horses and ponies as a kid and then took up riding lessons in my mid thirties at a very good school.  Not only did my instructors attempt to give me a good grounding (position, balance, feel, etc.) in the saddle . . . but I also learned to handle horses - tack up, untack, correct rugging, watering/feeding principles, grooming, basic signs of health/illness, lunging, how to set up a showjumping course, how to bandage, how to administer oral medication, how to take a temperature.

When I bought Kali (after more than 8 years at the riding school), I deliberately chose a yard where I would have tons of support - bringing that first horse "home" is pretty daunting and I knew I needed help.  If I hadn't done that then the first time Kal got kicked in the field and the wound needed cleaning (blood pouring from the underside of his jaw!) I think I would have gone to pieces.  As it was, I had someone with a steadying hand to remind me to calm down and do what needed to be done.  

I must admit I'm a little fed up of the snobbishness here directed at people who learned in a RS.  There are good schools and bad schools.  Good riders/owners and bad riders/owners.  Surely what's important is that we attempt to do the best by our horses (and the horses we sit on/handle even if they're not ours) and that we're willing to accept (and act on) constructive "help" and support.  

P

P.S.  Oh, and the horse I ended up buying was most definitely more quirky than anything I had sat on before - but with help and guidance (and lots and lots of patience) we have made great progress together.


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## GinaGeo (11 January 2012)

I've just lost my nice long reply for the second time. How infuriating is that! 

I will wite a summary because I really cannot be bothered to type it out for the third time! 

At riding schools you don't have control of anything. 

You don't control or make any decisions regarding:
-Worming
-Diet
-Tack fit
-Dental care
-Farriery
-Exercise Routine
-Best Routine (turnout, stable etc)
-Health Care
-Any need for alternative therapy e.g. Physio, Chiropracter etc
-Sourcing Bedding
-Sourcing Hay
- Whether to/what clip
- What weight rug

The list goes on...

I learnt to ride at a riding school and it taught me the basics well enough. But I didn't learn "feel" until I had my horse. I couldn't teach the horse anything new or improve it's way of going. I didn't have any responsibility for the general well being of the horse's I rode. I used to tack up and muck out at the riding school. But as a horse owner, you have to know whether the saddle you're putting on the horse is a good fit, whether the bit is suitable and whether the bridle fits. 

The difference, to me, between a riding school rider and a horse owner, generally, is the level of understanding. A horse owner has to know "why" they do everything. Whereas a a riding school rider just "does" it.

I have nothing against riding school riders. We've all been there. And some do provide a good level base of information. But it is a basis. And if you think you're very good and knowledgable at the riding school, you'll have a real shock when it comes to owning a horse yourself, without an instructor checking everything you do. I did.


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## Lolo (11 January 2012)

I haven't read any snobbiness, simply people saying nothing can come close to having sole responsibility of a horse with no one but yourself to hold accountable when things go wrong to make you learn quickly.

The skills of a rider come from good instruction on a good horse over a long period of time. Talent on it's own is nothing without those things, as you need to develop it properly with the right guidance and in a decent riding school you really can get that more than you potentially could if you had your own horse. If you ride rubbish, you end up rubbish- there are some really good threads in CR where this is discussed in some depth.

On the horsecare front, I do think you learn more from owning. If you spoke to my mum now you'd think she'd been round horses most of her life. She was completely novice to horse owning when we got our first ponies 9 years ago but now is someone who people ask for advice. She's had to deal with laminitus, abscesses, tendon injuries, kicks, colic and some rather more obscure problems. She managed my old horse so well that he was acting like a 5yo when he was 27 despite him being our first horse and being very geriatric! Compare her to some people who've come and gone on our yard straight from a riding school (with the same time frame ofc) and there are lightyears between her and them simply because she's had so much more experience of being the person in charge.


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## PolarSkye (11 January 2012)

GinaGeo said:



			I've just lost my nice long reply for the second time. How infuriating is that! 

I will wite a summary because I really cannot be bothered to type it out for the third time! 

At riding schools you don't have control of anything. 

You don't control or make any decisions regarding:
-Worming
-Diet
-Tack fit
-Dental care
-Farriery
-Exercise Routine
-Best Routine (turnout, stable etc)
-Health Care
-Any need for alternative therapy e.g. Physio, Chiropracter etc
-Sourcing Bedding
-Sourcing Hay
- Whether to/what clip
- What weight rug

The list goes on...
		
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Yes, but someone with a curious mind, a tongue in their head and a decent/knowledgeable instructor can ask about those things and learn alot.  I did.  I was always asking why and how - and always got answers.  I didn't just hand my lesson horse back at the end of the lesson, I groomed my horse beforehand and tacked up and untacked him/her - and if my instructor adjusted the tack once I got into the school I asked why and made a mental note, I made him/her comfortable/hosed off or brushed off sweat, rugged appropriately (initially with guidance and then using my own initiative.  I would watch my instructor (who was also the yard manager) teach other lessons and could ask her all sorts of questions (without interfering with the lesson - about horse soundness/way of going and remedies (e.g., physio, etc.), about clips and clipping, appropriate tack and bits, etc.   I helped prepare and give feeds and learned WHY which horse got which type of feed.  

I know I know far more now after two years of ownership than I did after 8 years of being at the RS - but I didn't enter ownership knowing no more than kick and pull.  Perhaps I'm taking this too personally, but as I said before, I'm fed up with the blanket attitude some folks have on here to RS riders.  

OK - climbing down from my soap box.

P


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## Sarah1 (11 January 2012)

PolarSkye said:



			Perhaps I'm taking this too personally
		
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I think you probably are - no one is saying RS riders know nothing and by your own admission you know more after just 2 years of ownership than you knew after 8 years in a RS - people are just saying you learn more/learn more quickly when you have your own horse.

It's a bit like saying that you learn to drive after you've passed your test - never a truer word spoken!


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## PaddyMonty (11 January 2012)

PolarSkye said:



*I know I know far more now after two years of ownership than I did after 8 years of being at the RS *- but I didn't enter ownership knowing no more than kick and pull.  Perhaps I'm taking this too personally, but as I said before, I'm fed up with the blanket attitude some folks have on here to RS riders.  

OK - climbing down from my soap box.
		
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Thats the point though. I dont think people generally are putting down riders that only have access to RS horses.  The issue is the belief by some that they can become well rounded experienced horse people from only riding at a riding school.
Numerous replies on here (including your last one) point to how much more people learn once they get their own despite originally thinking they were experienced.


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## PolarSkye (11 January 2012)

Sarah1 said:



			I think you probably are - no one is saying RS riders know nothing and by your own admission you know more after just 2 years of ownership than you knew after 8 years in a RS - people are just saying you learn more/learn more quickly when you have your own horse.

It's a bit like saying that you learn to drive after you've passed your test - never a truer word spoken! 

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I agree with this  . . . thank you for putting it in perspective.

However, I would like someone to explain what they mean by "I can tell a RS rider by their posts" . . . ?

P


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## PaddyMonty (11 January 2012)

PolarSkye said:



			IHowever, I would like someone to explain what they mean by "I can tell a RS rider by their posts" . . . ?
		
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Wasn't me who made that statement but I think I know what they mean.
When reading a reply you can often tell if someone is repeating something they've been told or read vs someone who is talking from actual experience.

You know how when you meet other horse people you can tell those that are talking the talk vs those that actually walk the walk.

Not saying the talk is wrong as in many cases its not, just that there are often other ways of dealing with situations with horses that aren't necessarily those that you would be taught in an equine establishment.


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## Lolo (11 January 2012)

PolarSkye said:



			I agree with this  . . . thank you for putting it in perspective.

However, I would like someone to explain what they mean by "I can tell a RS rider by their posts" . . . ?

P
		
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I usually can because the answers are quite textbook and often a little more naive than someone who's faced issues on their own and dealt with the consequences as the person in charge. They're not wrong, but often don't have the same experience. It's not an insult but an observation. Like you can tell people's ages by their posts usually...


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## Sarah1 (11 January 2012)

PolarSkye said:



			However, I would like someone to explain what they mean by "I can tell a RS rider by their posts" . . . ?
		
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Not sure TBH - I agree you can usually tell if a person is very young by their posts but I can't tell an experienced RS rider from an actual horse owner most of the time!  

Incidentally I know plenty of horse owners that can talk the talk but not walk the walk...!  Even some of them sound like their comments are being read from a textbook or are from someone elses mouth...


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## charlie76 (11 January 2012)

I find the attitude about riding school riders disgusting to be honest. I run a riding school. We teach our clients how to ride the horse correctly both on the flat and over fences. Granted, there are some that will never be more than average but then thats the case whether you ride school horses or own your own. 
We run shows here throughout the year, most of our clients competing on our horses ride far better than the people that come along on their own horses, and a lot of the times our clients beat the outsiders!

Those of you that didn't learn at a riding school, how did you learn or were you fortunate enough to fall out of the womb being an amaing horse person??!! 
There are many people that are simply not in a position to be a horse owner, without riding schools where would they learn?

As for the horse care side of things, most of our clients, under supervison( insurance I'm afraid) are encourgaged to be involved with the day to day care of the horses, in fact, a number of our clients have passed their BHS Stage 2 and are aiming for their Stage 3.

I think its unfair to tar all clients and all riding schools with the same brush!

These our our 'riding school clients' on our 'riding school horses:'





































As you can see, not all schools are bad!!
I learnt to ride at this riding school when I was a child. I have continued riding there throughout my years and with my only training being from this riding school I have obtained my BHS Senior Coach and Stable Managers qualification with my Senior Equitation exam in May this year. 

as from knowing who is from a riding school from the way they post...rubbish! I am actually more shocked by some of the people who post questions that are actually horse owners!


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## biggingerpony (11 January 2012)

I used to work at a riding school, and I think a massive problem with RS's at the moment is insurance, and the worry of being sued. The YO refused to have any jumps over 1ft(max and this was VERY rare) so mainly focused on flatwork and dressage. I know jumping isen't everything, but its what I enjoyed when I was younger, and I think 'prepare to trot... and trot to the rear of the ride' becomes a bit boring after a while. So I agree, going to a RS does not in my opinion set you up for owning your own horse.


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## PaddyMonty (11 January 2012)

charlie76 said:



			I find the attitude about riding school riders disgusting to be honest. I run a riding school.
		
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Charlie - Do you really believe the majority of riding schools are run as yours is?  I know they should be but in reality are they?


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## charlie76 (11 January 2012)

The only way to be prepared for horse ownership other than learn the basics at a riding school is to buy a horse and keep it in a yard where there are knowledgable people to help you or be lucky enough to be born into a horsey family.


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## rhino (11 January 2012)

charlie76 said:



			I find the attitude about riding school riders disgusting to be honest. I run a riding school. We teach our clients how to ride the horse correctly both on the flat and over fences.
		
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Sadly C76 a lot of people don't have access (certainly easy access) to your type of RS, or know how to tell the difference between a good or bad one. The place I 'learned' was certainly good fun for a confident person (jumping in 2nd ever lesson, allowed to take the horses out hacking unsupervised etc  ) but _my personal experience_ was that I really learned to ride when I got my own horse and a different instructor; my riding was torn apart and I was barely allowed out of walk for a few lessons!

If the OP had been different I think a lot of the replies would have been different too... It is difficult to sit back and hear about the 'great RS' when there have been repeated concerns regarding insurance/safety/welfare


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## marley and danni (11 January 2012)

i started to learn to ride in august 2010 at a riding school thats BHS approved....

i was there a month before i took on a loan horse so i could learn the basics of caring for one as well as still attending the riding school to learn the basic riding skills!!

i learn pretty fast and was able to ride the mare i had on loan (not very well she was very forward)

the after having her till december 2010 i give her up and bought my own exrace horse in january 23rd 2011!!! (by this point i hadnt had a lesson for 2 months)

and i didnt start having lessons untill july 2011 on him (via a private dressage instructor)

i still have the odd group lesson at my old riding school as i love the people and the horses!.....

you can go up group levels and learn different techiques at my old school, learn to 'feel' the horse properly and ask for proper contact (this means riding a higher leve horse)

so i think it depends on what riding school you learned at... it hink mine taught me enough to go and buy my own which i did (proberly rushed, but hes perfect for me)

PS didnt ride when i was younger and im 21! 

this is my and my little man (when 1st got him)








This is us 1 year on !!!


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## ester (11 January 2012)

Charlie I think a lot of us would have loved a RS like yours locally! As it is when I was a kid there were a few locally, by the time I was 12 there was one within reasonable travelling distance. It has picked up again now and there are a few more so you could have a choice.


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## paddi22 (11 January 2012)

charlie76 said:



			I find the attitude about riding school riders disgusting to be honest. I run a riding school. We teach our clients how to ride the horse correctly both on the flat and over fences. Granted, there are some that will never be more than average but then thats the case whether you ride school horses or own your own. 
We run shows here throughout the year, most of our clients competing on our horses ride far better than the people that come along on their own horses, and a lot of the times our clients beat the outsiders!
		
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Beautiful horses and lovely riders in those pics!

BUT! You can't compare riding school riders competing in a home show against those bringing in horses from outside i don't think. I've seen riding school horses at home shows and they are so relaxed as they are 
a. at home in a school they know
b. surrounded by other ponies they know
c. going into an arena they know
d. going over fences they have jumped a million times, so no scary or unexpected fillers etc

if you took those riders and ponies out to a new ground the reaction of both horse and rider would be completely different probably.


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## marley and danni (11 January 2012)

i kind of dont agree with the above post my horse (i know hes nor RS horse but...) we had a show on our own yard last year and he was exactly the same if not worse than when we go to a locol show!!!

....

but i kind of agree to an extent if they have been there a long time.... but i think it depends on the temprement of the horse too!


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## dunkley (11 January 2012)

charlie76 said:



			I find the attitude about riding school riders disgusting to be honest. I run a riding school. We teach our clients how to ride the horse correctly both on the flat and over fences. Granted, there are some that will never be more than average but then thats the case whether you ride school horses or own your own. 
We run shows here throughout the year, most of our clients competing on our horses ride far better than the people that come along on their own horses, and a lot of the times our clients beat the outsiders!

Those of you that didn't learn at a riding school, how did you learn or were you fortunate enough to fall out of the womb being an amaing horse person??!! 
There are many people that are simply not in a position to be a horse owner, without riding schools where would they learn?

As for the horse care side of things, most of our clients, under supervison( insurance I'm afraid) are encourgaged to be involved with the day to day care of the horses, in fact, a number of our clients have passed their BHS Stage 2 and are aiming for their Stage 3.

I think its unfair to tar all clients and all riding schools with the same brush!

These our our 'riding school clients' on our 'riding school horses:'





































As you can see, not all schools are bad!!
I learnt to ride at this riding school when I was a child. I have continued riding there throughout my years and with my only training being from this riding school I have obtained my BHS Senior Coach and Stable Managers qualification with my Senior Equitation exam in May this year. 

as from knowing who is from a riding school from the way they post...rubbish! I am actually more shocked by some of the people who post questions that are actually horse owners!
		
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And ^^^^^^ _this_ is what a riding school _should_ be like


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## CatStew (11 January 2012)

charlie76 said:



			I find the attitude about riding school riders disgusting to be honest. I run a riding school. We teach our clients how to ride the horse correctly both on the flat and over fences. Granted, there are some that will never be more than average but then thats the case whether you ride school horses or own your own. 
We run shows here throughout the year, most of our clients competing on our horses ride far better than the people that come along on their own horses, and a lot of the times our clients beat the outsiders!

Those of you that didn't learn at a riding school, how did you learn or were you fortunate enough to fall out of the womb being an amaing horse person??!! 
There are many people that are simply not in a position to be a horse owner, without riding schools where would they learn?

As for the horse care side of things, most of our clients, under supervison( insurance I'm afraid) are encourgaged to be involved with the day to day care of the horses, in fact, a number of our clients have passed their BHS Stage 2 and are aiming for their Stage 3.

I think its unfair to tar all clients and all riding schools with the same brush!

These our our 'riding school clients' on our 'riding school horses:'





































As you can see, not all schools are bad!!
I learnt to ride at this riding school when I was a child. I have continued riding there throughout my years and with my only training being from this riding school I have obtained my BHS Senior Coach and Stable Managers qualification with my Senior Equitation exam in May this year. 

as from knowing who is from a riding school from the way they post...rubbish! I am actually more shocked by some of the people who post questions that are actually horse owners!
		
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I completely agree with this.  Everybody has to start learning somewhere, and unless born into horses and riding, I should imagine that the majority of riders initnially learned in a riding school.  (Lovely horses too btw!  )

Although as a child and teenager my mum was 'horsey' and had ponies on loan, she gave up riding when she married my dad and I was born.  I come from a farming family, and I'd wanted riding lessons for as long as I could remember, but due to financial reasons, I wasn't able to have regular lessons.  From when I was about 8 year old, my mum and dad would on occasion hire a pony from a local riding school and lead me out on a hack.  My mum taught me the correct position, and how to rise to the trot, but I needed to have regular lessons in order for me to progress.

When I was 10, our circumstances changed and my parents were able to afford for me to have an hours riding lesson each week - riding lessons were actually my 10th birthday present!  Shortly after I had started said riding lessons my mum took up riding again and we would have lessons together.  When I was 15 we had our first share horse, and from the ages of 16 - 20 I went to college and studied 'Equine Studies and Estate Skills' - I've learned that equestrian colleges are another debatable subject.  Once I left college I found employment working with hunters.  Our share horse retired, so we found another horse and initnially had her on loan.  She had been round the mill a bit and was very sharp to ride (and still is).  We eventually bought her, and more recently I've bought a 4 year old Section D.

Although due to health reasons I am unable to work with horses any more, if it hadn't been for the first riding schools I attended and college, I wouldn't have had an opportunity to work with horses, and now own two beautiful (albeit slightly nuts ) horses.


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## PolarSkye (11 January 2012)

paddi22 said:



			Beautiful horses and lovely riders in those pics!

BUT! You can't compare riding school riders competing in a home show against those bringing in horses from outside i don't think. I've seen riding school horses at home shows and they are so relaxed as they are 
a. at home in a school they know
b. surrounded by other ponies they know
c. going into an arena they know
d. going over fences they have jumped a million times, so no scary or unexpected fillers etc

if you took those riders and ponies out to a new ground the reaction of both horse and rider would be completely different probably.
		
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I'm sorry but once again a blanket statement with which I disagree.  This past summer my former RS took a bunch of the ponies and horses to a local show for the first time EVER - every single one of them behaved beautifully, as did the riders.  A couple of the horses got a little overexcited in the jumping but the riders handled it beautifully . . .  (to be fair there were giant bouncy castles just outside the arena).  They did everything - showing (including handy pony), dressage and jumping.  Some got rosettes (much to the disgust of the local pony club who clearly thought they "owned" the show), some didn't - but all had a great time in a totally different atmosphere and environment.  They coped with busy warm-up rings with strange horses, loud tannoys, flags, bouncy castles and other fairground rides, dogs everywhere, baby buggies, fillers/wings and fence/ring dressing - none of which they encounter at the school.

P


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## Kat (11 January 2012)

eahotson said:



			I do think riding school horses/ponies are the unsung heros/heroines of the horse world and I think there should be a big prestigious class or award for the riding school horse/pony of the year.
		
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Very true, they are true saints, very clever and often the best teachers of all. I can think of a few that deserve medals for being able to deal with a lead rein beginner and then switch to jumping a course of 3ft fences or doing flying changes/half pass in the same day and leave all their clients smiling! 



PaddyMonty said:



			People seem to be missing the biggest difference between riding at a RS and owning your own...........Time in the saddle!
To become a good (hate that term) rider you need two things, quality instruction and time in the saddle.
RS riders may well get the instruction but just dont get enough time in the saddle.  Horse owners may well get the time in saddle but often lack regular quality instruction.
Put the two together and a rider can really start to develop. 

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I think that is true, although I can think of private owners who don't have more hours in the saddle than riding school clients. I never managed more than 2 hours a week, although my husband used to do 3 or more a week at one time, and if you are studying for exams you often do more. Plus you tend to really make it count if you are a riding school client, you tend to be very focused as you know it is your only chance and you are paying a lot of money. Also you are under instruction most of the time expected to have a plan and assess your horse etc rather than just pootling about. I know of people who own their own horses and just hack three times a week and that is it, having lessons is much better quality experience. Obviously it isn't enough on its own though. 

Obviously the less hours in the saddle the slower progress will be but I do think that you can make excellent progress as a riding school client if you are at the right riding school.  



charlie76 said:



			I find the attitude about riding school riders disgusting to be honest. I run a riding school. We teach our clients how to ride the horse correctly both on the flat and over fences. Granted, there are some that will never be more than average but then thats the case whether you ride school horses or own your own. 
We run shows here throughout the year, most of our clients competing on our horses ride far better than the people that come along on their own horses, and a lot of the times our clients beat the outsiders!

Those of you that didn't learn at a riding school, how did you learn or were you fortunate enough to fall out of the womb being an amaing horse person??!! 
There are many people that are simply not in a position to be a horse owner, without riding schools where would they learn?

As for the horse care side of things, most of our clients, under supervison( insurance I'm afraid) are encourgaged to be involved with the day to day care of the horses, in fact, a number of our clients have passed their BHS Stage 2 and are aiming for their Stage 3.

I think its unfair to tar all clients and all riding schools with the same brush!

These our our 'riding school clients' on our 'riding school horses:'

As you can see, not all schools are bad!!
I learnt to ride at this riding school when I was a child. I have continued riding there throughout my years and with my only training being from this riding school I have obtained my BHS Senior Coach and Stable Managers qualification with my Senior Equitation exam in May this year. 

as from knowing who is from a riding school from the way they post...rubbish! I am actually more shocked by some of the people who post questions that are actually horse owners!
		
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Thank you thank you thank you thank you for coming on and posting! 

Charlie76's riding school is just the sort of place we should be praising to the high heavens. We should be letting everyone know that these places exist and encouraging clients of the rough riding schools know that this is what they could get for their money, not dragging them all down to the level of the worst. 

I rode for about 8 years at a place like Charlie's where you could compete on the horses, where the instructors were good and they expected you to RIDE. My riding came on faster than it has done at any other time. In fact when I changed groups and started being taught by a BHSI whose approach was that we warmed up and assessed the horse then came up with a plan which we discussed with her and then we put the plan into action before a debrief at the end my riding totally went up a level. 

By the time I was 16 I was entirely capable of looking after my own horse and riding it competently. I'd done all of the BHS progressive tests in riding and stable management, I could walk trot and canter, control the horse hacking, ride a horse that wasn't straight forward, jump a decent fence or a course etc. I'd been riding for most of my life in what was probably a typical riding school in the 80s/90s. Had I bought a horse then I would probably have become an eternal happy hacker and while I may have done some low level competitions and had some lessons I don't think I ever would have discovered REAL riding and everything the sport has to offer. I hadn't a clue really about schooling or riding correctly on a contact or improving the horse, I certainly wouldn't have thought about trying dressage. Lots of my contemporaries bought horses and bumbled about with them and I was envious, but now I'm glad that I didn't. I came back to riding after a bit of a break for uni and tried a new riding school, and it was the best thing I could have done for my riding. I know if I'd bought a horse before I wouldn't be riding at the level I am now (and I hope I've still got lots of room for improvement). 

I hope that explains what some of us are trying to say a bit better. There are big advantages to staying in a riding school longer than you need to and it can make you a much more rounded rider. 

I think the CR types find it harder to "get" because they have lessons and train and try to improve all the time, but not all horse owners are like that. Plenty don't have lessons for YEARS on end.


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## Pearlsasinger (11 January 2012)

Pearlsasinger said:



			It is usually fairly easy to spot RS riders on here, from their posts.  
Which says it all really.

Of course this could just be because of a lack of experience, which can only come from being involved with horses for years and years, in whatever capacity.  Most RS riders do not have much experience.
		
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PolarSkye said:



			I agree with this  

However, I would like someone to explain what they mean by "I can tell a RS rider by their posts" . . . ?

P
		
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As I was the first person to say this, I thought I'd better explain.  You will note that actually I did not mention riding, I can't tell from what people write how effective/stylish their riding is, although I do sometimes cringe at some of the things people need to ask about (and some of the replies).

If you read OP's posts you will soon understand that she rides on one day each week, does some stable/yard chores and will defend her RS to criticism. She does not have the experience to compare this RS to others, or to spot the things which they could improve upon, although those of us with more experience can pick up on things in her photos with very little trouble.  She is not alone.
It is very easy to tell which posters do not have much experience, from the questions they ask/replies they give.  Yes, some of those people do own their own horse and maybe should have stayed longer at a good RS.
I agree that a good RS is a very good start to riding/horse-ownership but unfortunaetly there are some very poor ones out there, if only they were all like C76's RS.

I started riding at an excellent RS, which I think I described in another thread.  It was a very long time ago (40 yrs), the owner is still a very well-respected BSPS judge, was a PC instructor when some well-known families of equestrians were attending the local PC.  Sister and I (and many others) were given a very good grounding in riding and an introduction to stable management.  But sis and I soon found that it is very different owning your own horse and being responsible for its every need.  As others have said, nothing that a once-a-week RS rider does to a horse will have a great effect upon it, because before that person comes back it will have been ridden and handled by several other people.
And, although I'm sure that a good RS has quality horses, they are most likely to be well-schooled and not 'quirky', the same cannot be said for many privately owned horses, which many ex-RS riders find themselves ill-equipped to deal with.


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## Fellewell (11 January 2012)

What a shame so many first time owners have their heads stuck up their bottoms.
Riding schools are lovely happy places with lots of excited people living their dreams in a safe, stress free environment.
Don't get started with the 'owners have all the knowledge' baloney. Check out this board for evidence to the contrary
And as for the 'we can tell a riding school trained rider' I doubt that. The only difference that is noticeable in a rider is one who learned as a child or one who learned as  an adult. It's subtle but the difference is there. Get over yourselves.


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## charlie76 (11 January 2012)

Ours do go out to other venues to compete, school and hunt. They also , last year, were boxed up and were taken on a D of E bronze expedition. They behave the same as they do at home. Most of our horses have either been competition horses or have been schooled well from the start by our staff. Sometimes we take on the more challenging horses, again, we re school them. 
We also allow the clients, as they progress, to purchase their horses. Some we stipulate that thet have to stay on livery with us for the next 6 months so they can have help to become horse owners rather than simply abandoning them!
We also offer a loan scheme where they take on a horse as their own and get a feel of horse ownership with the back up of our staff looking out for them!


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## rhino (11 January 2012)

Fellewell said:



			What a shame so many first time owners have their heads stuck up their bottoms.
Riding schools are lovely happy places with lots of excited people living their dreams in a safe, stress free environment.
Get over yourselves.
		
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So it's perfectly ok for you to generalise about *your* experience of people who started riding as children vs adults but not for other people to generalise about *their* experiences of riding school vs owning horses? Hypocritical much? Just out of interest, how *do* you recognise these people? 

Some riding schools are as you described above. *Many* aren't. Some are downright dangerous.

I also have no idea who the 'first time owners' you refer to are?! I think you will find that many of the posters on here have a great deal of experience. I wish people would actually _read_ the posts which have been written rather than jumping to conclusions and launching into the defensive. Nobody here has dismissed the importance of riding schools in developing as an _all round rider_.


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## eahotson (11 January 2012)

charlie76 said:



			Ours do go out to other venues to compete, school and hunt. They also , last year, were boxed up and were taken on a D of E bronze expedition. They behave the same as they do at home. Most of our horses have either been competition horses or have been schooled well from the start by our staff. Sometimes we take on the more challenging horses, again, we re school them. 
We also allow the clients, as they progress, to purchase their horses. Some we stipulate that thet have to stay on livery with us for the next 6 months so they can have help to become horse owners rather than simply abandoning them!
We also offer a loan scheme where they take on a horse as their own and get a feel of horse ownership with the back up of our staff looking out for them!
		
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Yours sounds like a super riding school.


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## maresmaid (11 January 2012)

I think that the problem with learning to "ride" at a riding school has very little to do with the instructors or the schools themselves. Whichever way you look at it riding school horses have to be "safe" within reason. In order to earn their keep, each horse needs to be able to carry riders of varying abilities, and I am sure that riding school owners are very aware of the risks of legal action if their clients have a serious injury, and pick their horses very carefully for this reason. The school used by the OP sounds like it is trying hard to give it's pupils as good a grounding in horse management and riding as it is able to, BUT horse riding is not a "safe" activity and I believe that there are many experiences that riders face which simply cannot be replicated on a riding school horse, and non of us ever really get much of a taste of these things until we have our own horse and commit to riding and handling it in any situation that might arise - we have to deal with whatever the horse throws at us day in and day out.

There will be many posts on here from riders whose horses behaviour is far from perfect and all these people are in various stages on their equestrian journey, gathering bit by bit, the experience which gradually moves them away from the Novice Rider tag towards the Experienced Rider label. I think that riders who have only ever ridden in riding school or trekking centre situations do not really get any concept of the limitations of their own ability until they start to ride the horses that riding schools wouldn't use for their lessons. Yes riding schools can make a very good job of teaching you to RIDE - as in press all the right buttons, stay in balance, and travel in the pace and  direction you want to go, but HORSEMANSHIP is something you can only learn from the horses you spend time with on a day to day basis and as it takes hours and days and weeks and months and years and a lifetime to recognise and gather horsemanship skills, it cannot be acheived on a Saturday morning once a week, and I do think the one single thing that identifies a NOVICE rider to a rider who is starting to, or has already gained more experience of horses in the "real" world is the fact that the Novice rider from a riding school really has no idea of just how much more they need to learn to become a truly competant HORSEMAN.

Real life riders start to learn about

How to deal with a horse that is been kept in the stable for 3 weeks because of the snow and need excersising, without the rider ending up in casualty.

How changing the bit on a horse that can't be stopped, is not always the right answer.

When and how to identify if a horses "bad" behaviour is due to bad training, bad manners or pain.

What to feed, when to feed, and how much work to give to match.

How to catch a horse that doesn't want to be caught, load a horse that doesn't want to load, clip, shoe, inject a horse that doesn't want to be clipped, shod or injected.

How to identify when a horses back, teeth, saddle need checking.

Be sensitive enough to know if a horse is very slightly lame / stiff and be able to take appropriate action.

The list goes on and on and for every item I add that I can competantly deal with, I know there will still be several more that someone else will add that i am yet to come accross myself - It is not so much what we KNOW that makes us HORSEMEN (and women!) it's what we recognise that we DONT know - and this is the bit that so many riders from riding schools are simply unaware of - until they get their own horse!


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## Sarah1 (11 January 2012)

maresmaid said:



			I think that the problem with learning to "ride" at a riding school has very little to do with the instructors or the schools themselves. Whichever way you look at it riding school horses have to be "safe" within reason. In order to earn their keep, each horse needs to ba able to carry riders of varying abilities, and I am sure that riding school owners are very aware of the risks of legal action if their clients have a serious injury, and pick their horses very carefully for this reason. The school used by the OP sounds like it is trying hard to give it's pupils as good a grounding in horse management and riding as it is able to, BUT horse riding is not a "safe" activity and I believe that the are many experiences that riders face which simply cannot be replicated on a riding school horse, and non of us ever really get much of a taste of these things until we have our own horse and commit to riding and handling it in any situation that might arise - we have to deal with whatever the horse throws at us day in and day out.

There will be many posts on here from riders whose horses behaviour is far from perfect and all these people are in various stages on their equestrian journey, gathering bit by bit, the experience which gradually moves them away from the Novice Rider tag towards the Experienced Rider label. I think that Riders who have only ever ridden in Riding School or trekking centre situations do not really get any concept of the linitations of their own ability until they start to ride the horses that riding schools wouldn't use for their lessons. Yes riding schools can make a very good job of teaching you to RIDE - as in press all the right buttons, stay in balance, and travel in the pace and  direction you want to go, but HORSEMANSHIP is something you can only learn from the horses you spend time with on a day to day basis and as it takes hours and days and weeks and months and years and a lifetime to recognise and gather horsemanship skills, it cannot be acheived on a Saturday morning once a week, and I do think the one single thing that identifies a NOVICE rider to a rider who is starting to, or has already gained more experience of horses in the "real" world is the fact that the Novice rider from a riding school really has no idea of just how much more they need to learn to become a truly competant HORSEMAN.

Real life riders start to learn about

How to deal with a horse that is been kept in the stable for 3 weeks because of the snow and need excersising, without the rider ending up in casualty.

How changing the bit on a horse that can't be stopped, is not always the right answer.

When and how to identify if a horses "bad" behaviour is due to bad training, bad manners or pain.

What to feed, when to feed, and how much work to give to match.

How to catch a horse that doesn't want to be caught, load a horse that doesn't want to load, clip, shoe, inject a horse that doesn't want to be clipped, shod or injected.

How to identify when a horses back, teeth, saddle need checking.

Be sensitive enough to know if a horse is very slightly lame / stiff and be able to take appropriate action.

The list goes on and on and for every item I add that I can competantly deal with, I know there will still be several more that someone else will add that i am yet to come accross myself - It is not so much what we KNOW that makes us HORSEMEN (and women!) it's what we recognise that we DONT know - and this is the bit that so many riders from riding schools are simply unaware of - until they get their own horse!
		
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How very nicely put!


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## Amaranta (11 January 2012)

rhino said:



			So it's perfectly ok for you to generalise about *your* experience of people who started riding as children vs adults but not for other people to generalise about *their* experiences of riding school vs owning horses? Hypocritical much? Just out of interest, how *do* you recognise these people? 

Some riding schools are as you described above. *Many* aren't. Some are downright dangerous.

I also have no idea who the 'first time owners' you refer to are?! I think you will find that many of the posters on here have a great deal of experience. I wish people would actually _read_ the posts which have been written rather than jumping to conclusions and launching into the defensive. Nobody here has dismissed the importance of riding schools in developing as an _all round rider_. 

Click to expand...

Bloomin well said - some people are getting very het up over things that have just not been said!

Of course we all had to learn somewhere (in my case it was a very long time ago  ) but it is an unassailable fact that a RS/Just out of RS rider has not got the experience to deal with the problems that can face you when not riding a RS horse/pony, neither have they any idea of how to school, they have always had someone there to tell them what to do.  There are some exceptions to this very general rule, but they are just that exceptions.

I am NOT knocking RS riders or RS, although I wish there were more like C76s, may have saved me the money of owning for all these years


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## Amaranta (11 January 2012)

maresmaid said:



			I think that the problem with learning to "ride" at a riding school has very little to do with the instructors or the schools themselves. Whichever way you look at it riding school horses have to be "safe" within reason. In order to earn their keep, each horse needs to be able to carry riders of varying abilities, and I am sure that riding school owners are very aware of the risks of legal action if their clients have a serious injury, and pick their horses very carefully for this reason. The school used by the OP sounds like it is trying hard to give it's pupils as good a grounding in horse management and riding as it is able to, BUT horse riding is not a "safe" activity and I believe that there are many experiences that riders face which simply cannot be replicated on a riding school horse, and non of us ever really get much of a taste of these things until we have our own horse and commit to riding and handling it in any situation that might arise - we have to deal with whatever the horse throws at us day in and day out.

There will be many posts on here from riders whose horses behaviour is far from perfect and all these people are in various stages on their equestrian journey, gathering bit by bit, the experience which gradually moves them away from the Novice Rider tag towards the Experienced Rider label. I think that riders who have only ever ridden in riding school or trekking centre situations do not really get any concept of the limitations of their own ability until they start to ride the horses that riding schools wouldn't use for their lessons. Yes riding schools can make a very good job of teaching you to RIDE - as in press all the right buttons, stay in balance, and travel in the pace and  direction you want to go, but HORSEMANSHIP is something you can only learn from the horses you spend time with on a day to day basis and as it takes hours and days and weeks and months and years and a lifetime to recognise and gather horsemanship skills, it cannot be acheived on a Saturday morning once a week, and I do think the one single thing that identifies a NOVICE rider to a rider who is starting to, or has already gained more experience of horses in the "real" world is the fact that the Novice rider from a riding school really has no idea of just how much more they need to learn to become a truly competant HORSEMAN.

Real life riders start to learn about

How to deal with a horse that is been kept in the stable for 3 weeks because of the snow and need excersising, without the rider ending up in casualty.

How changing the bit on a horse that can't be stopped, is not always the right answer.

When and how to identify if a horses "bad" behaviour is due to bad training, bad manners or pain.

What to feed, when to feed, and how much work to give to match.

How to catch a horse that doesn't want to be caught, load a horse that doesn't want to load, clip, shoe, inject a horse that doesn't want to be clipped, shod or injected.

How to identify when a horses back, teeth, saddle need checking.

Be sensitive enough to know if a horse is very slightly lame / stiff and be able to take appropriate action.

The list goes on and on and for every item I add that I can competantly deal with, I know there will still be several more that someone else will add that i am yet to come accross myself - It is not so much what we KNOW that makes us HORSEMEN (and women!) it's what we recognise that we DONT know - and this is the bit that so many riders from riding schools are simply unaware of - until they get their own horse!
		
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I so wish there was a like button on here!


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## dafthoss (11 January 2012)

JFTD -  HAHAHAHAHA 

OP - who has gone suprisingly quiet about the criticisms of her RS, I think you should go to some where like charlie76's riding school and find out what a proper riding school is like and what they can do for your riding. I'm going to agree with what some others have said in that any place that thinks its ok to allow the horses feet to get in to the state that neds were and lets you ride in the school with loose horses and ponies in really does need to be questioned. As for the videos of you and ned jumping I think any instructor worth the time would say that neither of you were ready to be competing and should go back to basics and flat work before you even consider leaving the ground let alone at a show and this is where JFTD's comment is truley fitting. 

Charlie76 - All the photos you have posted of your rs riders look great and if all riding schools were like this then I think there would be a lot less people going in to horse ownership so unprepared. I wish there was something like this near me because I am often asked where people can go get lessons but I wouldnt recomend any round me and I would like the odd school master lesson.


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## eahotson (11 January 2012)

I have to say a GOOD riding school can have many advantages.The horses are fit, well shod and have correctly fitting tack.The clients will get good teaching in a fun atmosphere.They can ride a selection of horses and go up a level without having to sell an old favourite.The facilities should be good and the activities varied.There may well be opportunities to compete.No worries if a horse is lame (to the client anyway) another one is produced.Compare this experience to someone who is very inexperienced, struggling on a yard with poor facilities and no back up.Very often with an unsuitable horse.I know which experience I would prefer.
Sadly though, there are too many poor riding schools


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## WeedySeaDragon (11 January 2012)

charlie76 said:



			Ours do go out to other venues to compete, school and hunt. They also , last year, were boxed up and were taken on a D of E bronze expedition. They behave the same as they do at home. Most of our horses have either been competition horses or have been schooled well from the start by our staff. Sometimes we take on the more challenging horses, again, we re school them. 
We also allow the clients, as they progress, to purchase their horses. Some we stipulate that thet have to stay on livery with us for the next 6 months so they can have help to become horse owners rather than simply abandoning them!
We also offer a loan scheme where they take on a horse as their own and get a feel of horse ownership with the back up of our staff looking out for them!
		
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I wish I lived near you!!!

I think Maresmaid hit the nail on the head with regards to the horses most riding schools use. Most places aren't big enough or don't have the revenue coming in (certainly round here at least) to have both horses that are suitable for beginners of varying ages and sizes plus proper schoolmaster horses for the more advanced riders. It's very much a case of 'jack of all trades, master of none', though it's not the riding schools' faults, they have to provide what people want.


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## bluewhippet (11 January 2012)

Just wanted to make a point that is perhaps different to riding school vs horse ownership..and that is about commitment.

I as a London child did slave labour at my stables 6 - 6 all weekend and in the holidays in return for rides. I learnt an awful lot from that time: some of it perhaps how not to treat horses and ponies. This was in a time before huge law suits so I rode a huge variety of horses.

But now at 45 (gulp) I have my own horse for the first time. Yes, it is a learning curve but because it is something I have wanted desperately since 4 years' old, I have put all my energies into improving and learning.

I haven't found it too shocking. And I think that is as a result of the confidence I gained through a childhood of riding nutty ponies and working my fingers to the bone to ride them. I found it a very good preparation. 

Yes, horse ownership is very different but some riding school experiences can equip you very well for many of the problems that occur.


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## LaurenBay (11 January 2012)

As others have said, there are good and bad riding schools.

I went to Woodredon EC. It was brilliant (and still is, to this day!) Without Woodredon I wouldn't have got my own. I attended "own a pony day's" quite often and at the end we would have to do a written test, in order to recieve a certificate. The Ponies and Horses were lovely, Some were green and some were school masters and ex competition Horses. In fact they had a lovely SJ that was once ridden by the whitakers! Also had a lovely Horse that was in the racing scence in the film Black Beauty. They are located in the middle of Epping Forest, so Horses spend a lot of time hacking through the lovely scenery. They attend shows and Gymkanas quite often too. I used to volunteer there on a Tuesday night, to gain some basic Horse management skills.


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## PonyIAmNotFood (11 January 2012)

The attitude towards RS riders really gets my back up. I have ridden at one for 12 years, started helping there at the age of 10 and now run the yard at weekends and supervise the kid volunteers, teaching them stable management etc. The riders get their horses themselves and take them in, they un tack and rug up, and lessons are catered to the rider. If kids/adults want to help out they can as long as they are over 10, and there are pony days for younger kids to learn management etc on. We don't hack to be honest, but if the kids who help are insured they can hack around the fields. Advanced riders learn how to improve the horses way of going and lateral movements etc. Advanced riders also help bring on the youngsters/school 'naughty' horses. If people don't want to get involved and just want to come once a week for a potter about that's fine too, it's up to them!

I know many of my friends and other riders who learnt with us have gone on to be very successful with 'normal' horses outside of the school, and I have ridden and schooled plenty of others myself. I am also on the uni riding team and have the ability to get on almost anything and get a tune out of it. (Not blowing my own horn but making a point). People are very prejudiced against RS riders and I just don't get it.


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## JFTDWS (11 January 2012)

There's a lot of confusion on this thread - people assuming that horse owners are dismissing RS riders as hopeless incompetents who don't know one end of a horse from the other and people mixing up whether they mean that RS riders are deficient either as riders or in knowledge of stable management.  Neither is particularly true. 

The point is that riders who have not progressed to owning a horse do not have the experiences that horse ownership provides.  

This is certainly relevant to a knowledge of stable management - any numpty can muck out a stable or tack a pony up, but (for example) making the decision what tack to put on your horse isn't normally within the remit of an RS client.  Similarly with feeding / shoeing / turnout / etc an RS client's experience is likely to be dictated by the policy of the RS they attend - and whilst they might gain knowledge outside of the RS of other schools of thought, they are less likely to have the freedom to explore them practically.

Similarly, an RS rider is unlikely to have the freedom to make decisions once in the saddle about precisely what to do with their horse - hack, school, jump, which route, what speed, what to work on in the school, what jumping exercise to do - because normally they are restrained by the rules of the RS and the motivations of their instructor.  Because RS clients often do not ride the same horse regularly, they don't have the same input into the horse's schooling and education as you do if you own that horse.

However, being in a _good _RS can give a talented rider access to well schooled, talented horses from which they can learn much more than an owner with a green or less "easy" horse.  As such, there are (I'm sure) many RS riders who are better versed in higher dressage movements or who are capable of jumping higher, more complicated tracks than some owners (myself included).  Similarly, they may have access to many different types of horse and thus be more versatile a rider than a "one horse owner".  With access to good instructors, such riders then may take that experience on into ownership and become a "better class" of owner than people who've owned all their lives and never taken lessons.

The posters who claim to be able to differentiate RS riders from horse owners are probably refering the more novice RS riders who don't appreciate that they don't know everything.  The OP's post is very defensive, arguing that her RS allows them to learn about management and do exciting riding things.  It's posts like this which scream "RS rider with limited experience" at people who own horses - people who would never be so defensive about how much we know, because we appreciate how much we don't know.  

It grates with people who understand the difference between mucking out and tacking up and actually making the decisions behind the donkey work.  It grates with people who understand that "real" riding isn't about how high you jump, how fast you go or how naughty the RS horses can be - there's plenty more to it than that, though some owners don't seem to appreciate that either.  Every bad decision that a horse owner makes in the saddle will be their responsibility to fix - whether that decision be to jump on bad ground and lame their horse, or inadvertantly encourage the horse to exhibit a vice.  The same is not true of your average RS rider, though undoubtably there are some who could rise to the challenge.





charlie76 said:



			We also allow the clients, as they progress, to purchase their horses. Some we stipulate that thet have to stay on livery with us for the next 6 months so they can have help to become horse owners rather than simply abandoning them!
We also offer a loan scheme where they take on a horse as their own and get a feel of horse ownership with the back up of our staff looking out for them!
		
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Then you are performing an extremely valuable service for the equestrian community - it is a shame that your RS is probably the exception rather than the rule.


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## PonyIAmNotFood (11 January 2012)

JFTD said:



			The point is that riders who have not progressed to owning a horse do not have the experiences that horse ownership provides.  

This is certainly relevant to a knowledge of stable management - any numpty can muck out a stable or tack a pony up, but (for example) making the decision what tack to put on your horse isn't normally within the remit of an RS client.  Similarly with feeding / shoeing / turnout / etc an RS client's experience is likely to be dictated by the policy of the RS they attend - and whilst they might gain knowledge outside of the RS of other schools of thought, they are less likely to have the freedom to explore them practically.

Similarly, an RS rider is unlikely to have the freedom to make decisions once in the saddle about precisely what to do with their horse - hack, school, jump, which route, what speed, what to work on in the school, what jumping exercise to do - because normally they are restrained by the rules of the RS and the motivations of their instructor.  Because RS clients often do not ride the same horse regularly, they don't have the same input into the horse's schooling and education as you do if you own that horse.
		
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I get what you're saying, as in decisions are ultimately made by the RS but the volunteers do learn what different bits of kit are for, why their mates horse is in a martingale and ours aren't, why some horses get a sprinkle of calm mix and others are on different feed, and what the signs are that the feed needs changing. They also know about ideal weight, why turnout is important etc. and the basics of well fitting tack. They can also ask about exceptions to the rules etc. and how to tell the exceptions. They're constantly learning, and do get to practicalise the knowledge on occasions, as in how to fit tack and kit every time they tack something up etc. They get to know the horses as though they are their own, I know some of the girls know particular ponies better than anyone and as a result if they are being 'naughty' they can get on a ride to the horses individual needs. 

And although no, they don't get to pick whether they school or hack, they do get time in open order to school their horse as they wish, either to the horses or their benefit dependant on what they are working towards that day. I think only the TRUE beginners at our place would get on a horse and not know what to do without someone telling them, the rest would definately be able to get on and work the horse out to some extent, and tailor the session towards them. Everyone appears to be assuming all RS riders are beginners, most definately not the case.


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## Kat (11 January 2012)

JFTD said:



			There's a lot of confusion on this thread - people assuming that horse owners are dismissing RS riders as hopeless incompetents who don't know one end of a horse from the other and people mixing up whether they mean that RS riders are deficient either as riders or in knowledge of stable management.  Neither is particularly true. 

The point is that riders who have not progressed to owning a horse do not have the experiences that horse ownership provides.  

This is certainly relevant to a knowledge of stable management - any numpty can muck out a stable or tack a pony up, but (for example) making the decision what tack to put on your horse isn't normally within the remit of an RS client.  Similarly with feeding / shoeing / turnout / etc an RS client's experience is likely to be dictated by the policy of the RS they attend - and whilst they might gain knowledge outside of the RS of other schools of thought, they are less likely to have the freedom to explore them practically.

Similarly, an RS rider is unlikely to have the freedom to make decisions once in the saddle about precisely what to do with their horse - hack, school, jump, which route, what speed, what to work on in the school, what jumping exercise to do - because normally they are restrained by the rules of the RS and the motivations of their instructor.  Because RS clients often do not ride the same horse regularly, they don't have the same input into the horse's schooling and education as you do if you own that horse.

However, being in a _good _RS can give a talented rider access to well schooled, talented horses from which they can learn much more than an owner with a green or less "easy" horse.  As such, there are (I'm sure) many RS riders who are better versed in higher dressage movements or who are capable of jumping higher, more complicated tracks than some owners (myself included).  Similarly, they may have access to many different types of horse and thus be more versatile a rider than a "one horse owner".  With access to good instructors, such riders then may take that experience on into ownership and become a "better class" of owner than people who've owned all their lives and never taken lessons.

The posters who claim to be able to differentiate RS riders from horse owners are probably refering the more novice RS riders who don't appreciate that they don't know everything.  The OP's post is very defensive, arguing that her RS allows them to learn about management and do exciting riding things.  It's posts like this which scream "RS rider with limited experience" at people who own horses - people who would never be so defensive about how much we know, because we appreciate how much we don't know.  

It grates with people who understand the difference between mucking out and tacking up and actually making the decisions behind the donkey work.  It grates with people who understand that "real" riding isn't about how high you jump, how fast you go or how naughty the RS horses can be - there's plenty more to it than that, though some owners don't seem to appreciate that either.  Every bad decision that a horse owner makes in the saddle will be their responsibility to fix - whether that decision be to jump on bad ground and lame their horse, or inadvertantly encourage the horse to exhibit a vice.  The same is not true of your average RS rider, though undoubtably there are some who could rise to the challenge.





Then you are performing an extremely valuable service for the equestrian community - it is a shame that your RS is probably the exception rather than the rule.
		
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I think that is all pretty fair comment. 

Although good riding schools do allow clients to have some input into certain decisions, for example over choice of tack and bit. I have often ridden a RS horse in different tack to its normal working tack either because I am competing and need something more appropriate or because it suits better when I ride the horse. A good instructor will also discuss long term plans and how to deal with problems with clients, the best solution to a certain issue may be to work the horse on the lunge which might not be possible in the lesson but you can begin to learn about the decision making by discussing it with your instructor. 

At the end of the day though I think the time to move on from a riding school is when the frustration about not being able to make those decisions for yourself! 

Personally, although it is a steep learning curve at all I relish being able to make those decisions as that is the reason that I am paying even more money and spending my limited free time on my horse! I wanted to be responsible for her training and for the horse she will become. I wanted to be able to change her feed or stop schooling and go for a hack or whatever I thought was best for her. I'm loving it, but I am also very glad I spent so long in riding schools as I think it has given me a very good grounding and prepared me well. I hope that my horse will be proof of that too


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## JFTDWS (11 January 2012)

PonyIAmNotFood said:



			they do get time in open order to school their horse as they wish, either to the horses or their benefit dependant on what they are working towards that day. I think only the TRUE beginners at our place would get on a horse and not know what to do without someone telling them, the rest would definately be able to get on and work the horse out to some extent, and tailor the session towards them. Everyone appears to be assuming all RS riders are beginners, most definately not the case.
		
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Not at all - I'm not talking about not knowing what to do when you get on.  Any rider, RS or otherwise, should be aware of how to warm a horse up and put it through its paces - it's not rocket science.  

What I think most RS riders lack is the ability (and opportunity to develop the ability) to plan a session and make decisions regarding how to best improve the horse's way of going, how to introduce the exercises, how to react to the horse's way of going and attitude on that day, level of fitness, to know how much to ask for and how quickly to ask - all without guidance of an instructor.  Partly because, in an RS situation, if they are about to over-face the horse, the RI will almost certainly intervene.  Partly because unless you have experience of working with the same horse regularly over a period of time, you tend to lack perspective on how one session fits into the general education of your horse.  That perspective is hard to achieve when your ride is ridden every day by other clients and staff and you ride it only once a week.

I'm certain that good instructors at good RS do teach these skills to some extent - but I maintain that they are the minority.


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## JFTDWS (11 January 2012)

Kat said:



			I'm loving it, but I am also very glad I spent so long in riding schools as I think it has given me a very good grounding and prepared me well. I hope that my horse will be proof of that too 

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Exactly - a good RS is an _excellent _preparation for successful ownership (and yours sounds to have been a good RS).  Furthermore, because you are aware of your own limitations as well as your strengths, you're in a good position to appreciate where you can learn from more experienced owners, and where you can apply your own experience, thus enabling you to manage and train your mare successfully.  I have no doubt that your mare will turn out well.


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## Hippona (11 January 2012)

Yay JFTD.

Exactly what you said.

As a thought.....the longer you own horses ....the more you realise that when you thought you knew it all.....you actually knew bugger all.....


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## JFTDWS (11 January 2012)

tinselmoo said:



			As a thought.....the longer you own horses ....the more you realise that when you thought you knew it all.....you actually knew bugger all.....

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Today, I'd rather go back to knowing very little at an RS.  Hell, RS riders don't know how lucky they are, they don't get confronted with escaped yearlings when they go up to sort their horses in the morning, they don't have to spend their days worrying about whether houdini has been reincarnated as a highland and whether he'll still be where you left him or not, and they definitely don't find themselves "testing" the electric fence the hard way because they don't trust the fence checker   The things we do for our bloody animals


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## Sarah1 (11 January 2012)

JFTD said:



			Today, I'd rather go back to knowing very little at an RS.  Hell, RS riders don't know how lucky they are, they don't get confronted with escaped yearlings when they go up to sort their horses in the morning, they don't have to spend their days worrying about whether houdini has been reincarnated as a highland and whether he'll still be where you left him or not, and they definitely don't find themselves "testing" the electric fence the hard way because they don't trust the fence checker   The things we do for our bloody animals 

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Neither do they get a call at silly o'clock to say their horse is colicing and then sit up with said animal til god knows what time, nor do they have to make the heart-wrenching decision to have a dear old friend PTS when they see all of the fight go out of them... or have to arrange for their new 4 year old to go to Newmarket to have a full work up for suspected back issues not knowing if this horse will be ridden again or will end up as a very large, pooping, lawn mower!  I'm with you, RS riders don't know how lucky they are!

Also, tinselmoo, absolutely spot on, the longer you have horses the more your realise you didn't know all those years ago when you thoguht you knew it all!


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## rhino (11 January 2012)

They also don't have to personally deal with the results of an injured horse - now only 4 months in and still 8 months plus before we'll know what the outcome is likely to be with ginger horse. 

No getting up in the dark every morning to muck out, cold hose, equissage and walk in hand.
No having to go up every evening to do likewise.
No having to make the final decision if it doesn't work.


All this and no riding!


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## Hippona (11 January 2012)

Sarah1 said:





Also, tinselmoo, absolutely spot on, the longer you have horses the more your realise you didn't know all those years ago when you thoguht you knew it all! 

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I think I peaked when I realised I knew nothing.....and I seem to know less every day.

I'm in a decline......


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## Sarah1 (11 January 2012)

rhino said:



			They also don't have to personally deal with the results of an injured horse - now only 4 months in and still 8 months plus before we'll know what the outcome is likely to be with ginger horse. 

No getting up in the dark every morning to muck out, cold hose, equissage and walk in hand.
No having to go up every evening to do likewise.
No having to make the final decision if it doesn't work.


All this and no riding! 

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No having to get to the stables by hook or by crook in waist high snow - when you live 15 mins away by car...
No having to arrange hay deliveries when there's a hay shortage/bad weather
No having to cram umpteen bags of feed/bedding in a Fiesta and wrecking the springs just to make sure you don't get caught out with bad weather


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## VoR (11 January 2012)

Sarah1 said:





Neither do they get a call at silly o'clock to say their horse is colicing and then sit up with said animal til god knows what time, nor do they have to make the heart-wrenching decision to have a dear old friend PTS when they see all of the fight go out of them... or have to arrange for their new 4 year old to go to Newmarket to have a full work up for suspected back issues not knowing if this horse will be ridden again or will end up as a very large, pooping, lawn mower!  I'm with you, RS riders don't know how lucky they are!

Also, tinselmoo, absolutely spot on, the longer you have horses the more your realise you didn't know all those years ago when you thoguht you knew it all! 

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Well, on the other hand, you could say that YOU are the lucky ones being in a position to own your own horses, would it not be fair to say that a lot of people (actually probably most) use RS because they either can't afford to own, don't have the property to own, are taking the first steps to learn to ride or maybe, just maybe, they understand they lack knowledge so aren't confident enough to care for their own? I reckon they'd give their right arms to have to sit up all night with their own horse or to have the chance to learn from owning!

As a general view of this thread;

Overall I think that a lot of people are generalising and far too judgemental of RS riders as a group! Just like everywhere else in life there will be good, bad and indifferent people and in this instance riders. That is human. They all have their reasons for doing what they do and probably have just as much fun in their own way as you or I or anyone, who are we to judge what is right or wrong for them without knowing their individual circumstances? I know a few schools where there are people who simply lack confidence but still enjoy the work they do within the school is that wrong? What gives us the right to say it is or isn't?


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## Kellys Heroes (11 January 2012)

Not read all the thread, but I spent from 8 years old to 12 years old at a (good!) riding school and I honestly believe that I didn't learn to ride until I got my first pony.

I learnt the motions, yes, rising trot up down up down, saddle on, saddle off, brush, brush, muck out but only when I got my first pony did I start to learn deeper knowledge, getting used to him, his ways and him testing me - and boy, did he teach me some lessons!!!!  

I always find that 'owned horses' are far, far sharper and ready to teach as well as learn. I found at the RS I rode every pony the same way as I was taught - I now realise that doesn't always work.

Also at RS I was unable to progress at my own pace.

If I did it again, I'd have got out of the RS far sooner and stopped my mum throwing £13 a week away on a lesson with 11 other kids who said they could ride and couldn't do rising trot!
K x


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## rhino (11 January 2012)

Sarah1 said:



			No having to get to the stables by hook or by crook in waist high snow - when you live 15 mins away by car...
No having to arrange hay deliveries when there's a hay shortage/bad weather
No having to cram umpteen bags of feed/bedding in a Fiesta and wrecking the springs just to make sure you don't get caught out with bad weather
		
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Remind me why we do it again?  

VoR - a lot of us make huge sacrifices to keep a horse - no holidays, no new clothes, no going out, no 'luxuries' of any sort... As I said, at the moment I am doing this for essentially a 'pet'. Would I change anything though; not for the world


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## Sarah1 (11 January 2012)

VoR said:



			Well, on the other hand, you could say that YOU are the lucky ones being in a position to own your own horses, would it not be fair to say that a lot of people (actually probably most) use RS because they either can't afford to own, don't have the property to own, are taking the first steps to learn to ride or maybe, just maybe, they understand they lack knowledge so aren't confident enough to care for their own? I reckon they'd give their right arms to have to sit up all night with their own horse or to have the chance to learn from owning!

As a general view of this thread;

Overall I think that a lot of people are generalising and far too judgemental of RS riders as a group! Just like everywhere else in life there will be good, bad and indifferent people and in this instance riders. That is human. They all have their reasons for doing what they do and probably have just as much fun in their own way as you or I or anyone, who are we to judge what is right or wrong for them without knowing their individual circumstances? I know a few schools where there are people who simply lack confidence but still enjoy the work they do within the school is that wrong? What gives us the right to say it is or isn't?
		
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Read my previous posts - not saying RS riders don't know anything or don't ride well, I'm saying they learn more when they get their own horse.  Fact.

Yes you may well think I'm lucky to have my own horse - I'm amazingly lucky to have one as good as I have got - but if you would 'give your right arm' to sit up with a sick horse then I find something hugely wrong with that statement - it's no fun, believe me and I hope you never experience it TBH.

ETS - I'd like to say that I don't think that RS aren't a good foundation to start your lifelong obesession with horses (as this is what it becomes for most!), I think it is just that, a foundation.  Yes some people can't afford their own or don't have time for one full time and that's fine - if the RS works for them & they're happy then great.  Do I think they'll ever know as much as someone who has owned a horse?  Absolutely not.


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## Sarah1 (11 January 2012)

KellysHeroes said:



			Not read all the thread, but I spent from 8 years old to 12 years old at a (good!) riding school and I honestly believe that I didn't learn to ride until I got my first pony.

I learnt the motions, yes, rising trot up down up down, saddle on, saddle off, brush, brush, muck out but only when I got my first pony did I start to learn deeper knowledge, getting used to him, his ways and him testing me - and boy, did he teach me some lessons!!!!  

I always find that 'owned horses' are far, far sharper and ready to teach as well as learn. I found at the RS I rode every pony the same way as I was taught - I now realise that doesn't always work.

Also at RS I was unable to progress at my own pace.

If I did it again, I'd have got out of the RS far sooner and stopped my mum throwing £13 a week away on a lesson with 11 other kids who said they could ride and couldn't do rising trot!
K x
		
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Thank you, this proves my (& a lot of other peoples) point beautifully


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## Sarah1 (11 January 2012)

rhino said:



			Remind me why we do it again?  

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I have no idea


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## JFTDWS (11 January 2012)

VoR said:



			Well, on the other hand, you could say that YOU are the lucky ones being in a position to own your own horses, would it not be fair to say that a lot of people (actually probably most) use RS because they either can't afford to own, don't have the property to own, are taking the first steps to learn to ride or maybe, just maybe, they understand they lack knowledge so aren't confident enough to care for their own? I reckon they'd give their right arms to have to sit up all night with their own horse or to have the chance to learn from owning!
		
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Alas, presumably you were last in the queue when they were handing out a good sense of humour


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## VoR (11 January 2012)

JFTD said:



			Alas, presumably you were last in the queue when they were handing out a good sense of humour 

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And you were first in the queue for being bl**dy rude I assume? 

Funny how people get all precious when someone tries to add a bit of common-sense on some of these forums or I am I not allowed to give an opinion?


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## Sarah1 (11 January 2012)

JFTD said:



			Alas, presumably you were last in the queue when they were handing out a good sense of humour 

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Is it just me or is it getting tiresome being labelled as a RS-rider-basher/hater


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## QueenOfCadence (11 January 2012)

IMHO RS are more important than independent ownership because if I had never joined a RS I wouldn't be where I am (competing rather successfully and working with multiple horses). 

While I agree that being in the RS isn't AT ALL like owning a horse - I also believe that you shouldn't own a horse if you've never been in a riding school. I personally spent 2 years of my life doing nothing but lunge lessons in the RS (lessons on a 20 meter circle working on nothing but transitions and my seat), I then progressed to the big arena and started jumping/dressage training, after another couple of years of riding plod-alongs who were to lazy to even canter my mother bought my my own horse (still have him and compete him in EM). The RS taught me what dedication and perseverance is, ownership taught me what horsemanship is - but I doubt I'd be any type of horsewoman without having the dedication and perseverance that the riding school hammered into me.

I also believe the RS is a good place to sort the serious riders from the people who are likely to quit. If you can stick a couple of years out in the riding school you deserve a horse IMHO

RS riders in general ARE less knowledgeable (it's not even debatable), but their is NOTHING wrong with that - after all, most of them are still learning. It would do us all good to remember that we all have to start somewhere


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## Fellewell (11 January 2012)

VoR said:



			Well, on the other hand, you could say that YOU are the lucky ones being in a position to own your own horses, would it not be fair to say that a lot of people (actually probably most) use RS because they either can't afford to own, don't have the property to own, are taking the first steps to learn to ride or maybe, just maybe, they understand they lack knowledge so aren't confident enough to care for their own? I reckon they'd give their right arms to have to sit up all night with their own horse or to have the chance to learn from owning!

As a general view of this thread;

Overall I think that a lot of people are generalising and far too judgemental of RS riders as a group! Just like everywhere else in life there will be good, bad and indifferent people and in this instance riders. That is human. They all have their reasons for doing what they do and probably have just as much fun in their own way as you or I or anyone, who are we to judge what is right or wrong for them without knowing their individual circumstances? I know a few schools where there are people who simply lack confidence but still enjoy the work they do within the school is that wrong? What gives us the right to say it is or isn't?
		
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Nicely put VOR  I've never had to stay up all night with one so I think some people must be a bit precious


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## Sarah1 (11 January 2012)

VoR said:



			And you were first in the queue for being bl**dy rude I assume? 

Funny how people get all precious when someone tries to add a bit of common-sense on some of these forums or I am I not allowed to give an opinion? 

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What's common sense got to do with anything?!   Us horse owners/riders are all maaaaaaaaaad don't you know!  

_*goes off to chat with the voices in my head*_


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## Sarah1 (11 January 2012)

Fellewell said:



			Nicely put VOR  I've never had to stay up all night with one so I think some people must be a bit precious

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Lucky you


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## PaddyMonty (11 January 2012)

Fellewell said:



			Nicely put VOR  I've never had to stay up all night with one so I think some people must be a bit precious

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Isn't that what grooms are for? Some people are very strange


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## rhino (11 January 2012)

Fellewell said:



			I've never had to stay up all night with one so I think some people must be a bit precious

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I have, foal watch and a weird unexplained colic/tying up episode. Am I precious? Not in the slightest, but my horse is!  

ETA forgot the midnight run to Liphook too  Fun going to work at 8 the next morning!


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## Sarah1 (11 January 2012)

PaddyMonty said:



			Isn't that what grooms are for? Some people are very strange 

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Oh yes, *all* horse owners have at least one don't you know!


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## Sarah1 (11 January 2012)

rhino said:



			I have, foal watch and a weird unexplained colic/tying up episode. Am I precious? Not in the slightest, but my horse is!  

ETA forgot the midnight run to Liphook too  Fun going to work at 8 the next morning!
		
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 well said!  Not nice is it?!


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## rhino (11 January 2012)

Sarah1 said:



 well said!  Not nice is it?! 

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The Liphook outing would have been more fun had I not gone straight from the yard after a ride (a ride where following my friend on a gallop up a field I had some lovely, fresh cow **** kicked up in my face and hair!  ) No time to shower so I had to have the window open the whole way there and back.


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## VoR (11 January 2012)

Sarah1 said:



			Read my previous posts - not saying RS riders don't know anything or don't ride well, I'm saying they learn more when they get their own horse.  Fact.

Yes you may well think I'm lucky to have my own horse - I'm amazingly lucky to have one as good as I have got - but if you would 'give your right arm' to sit up with a sick horse then I find something hugely wrong with that statement - it's no fun, believe me and I hope you never experience it TBH.

ETS - I'd like to say that I don't think that RS aren't a good foundation to start your lifelong obesession with horses (as this is what it becomes for most!), I think it is just that, a foundation.  Yes some people can't afford their own or don't have time for one full time and that's fine - if the RS works for them & they're happy then great.  Do I think they'll ever know as much as someone who has owned a horse?  Absolutely not.
		
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Sarah1 - I think you've taken things a bit too much to heart, whilst I 'quoted' you this was to make it clear why I was saying what I was saying not a 'slight' and if the second bit was a concern to you, that was a general comment on the thread.........unless your conscience is playing on you?? 

I have stayed up all night with a colic 'victim' and nursed a rescued pony back from near death towards the point where he is now being backed. Tbh it was one of the most rewarding things I've ever done, regardless of the work involved. 

As someone who only became interested in horses 8 years ago, I've learned a hell of a lot (much of it from riding schools!), had some hard times (including having to make the decision to PTS my first horse) and now own two (still not quite sure how that happened????), but I wouldn't change a single thing.........except perhaps having to do all them circles!!!!


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## Alaadin (11 January 2012)

I think riding schools do a very important job.

Coming from a non-horsey family I was in and out of different riding schools from the age of 7 till the age of about 18. Some remarkably better than others. I have since gone on to loan horses and make a success of myself riding and bringing on other people's horses. I have also completed an equine degree and have my BHS stage 1 and 2. I have never had the money or the oppurtunity to own my own horse, and without riding schools, would never even have sat on a horse.

Horse owners need to remember how lucky they are...


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## PonyIAmNotFood (11 January 2012)

Its a massive generalisation to say that RS riders know less than horse owners, I know plenty and have seen plenty of private owners riding their super obese cobs in a narrow, ill fitting saddle, turning them out on good grass until lami hits, etc. Clearly they know more than a RS rider.


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## Sarah1 (11 January 2012)

VoR said:



			unless your conscience is playing on you?? 

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Not sure what you mean? 




			As someone who only became interested in horses 8 years ago, I've learned a hell of a lot (much of it from riding schools!), had some hard times (including having to make the decision to PTS my first horse) and now own two (still not quite sure how that happened????), but I wouldn't change a single thing.........except perhaps having to do all them circles!!!!
		
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But that's my point - you own your own horses?  Can you honestly say that you learned more from the RS than you have from having your own and being the one ultimately responsible?

As I said RS are a good *foundation* (if you find a good one obviously)


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## Sarah1 (11 January 2012)

rhino said:



			The Liphook outing would have been more fun had I not gone straight from the yard after a ride (a ride where following my friend on a gallop up a field I had some lovely, fresh cow **** kicked up in my face and hair!  ) No time to shower so I had to have the window open the whole way there and back.  

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I'm sorry but this made me chuckle!


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## Sarah1 (11 January 2012)

PonyIAmNotFood said:



			Its a massive generalisation to say that RS riders know less than horse owners, I know plenty and have seen plenty of private owners riding their super obese cobs in a narrow, ill fitting saddle, turning them out on good grass until lami hits, etc. Clearly they know more than a RS rider.
		
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I have to admit this is actually an excellent point - as I said before I do know owners who talk the talk but can't walk the walk...

Do you think that most RS riders would know how to fit a saddle?  As in how wide it would need to be, how much stuffing it needs, if it moves when ridden on? Etc etc etc.

I do honestly believe though, regardless of the point above, that _most_ horse owners will know more than _most_ RS riders, simply because owning a horse gives you experiences - good & bad - that money can't buy.


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## Hippona (11 January 2012)

Alaadin said:



			Horse owners need to remember how lucky they are...
		
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I do....usually at 6am in the snow/rain/dark getting up to muck 3 out before my 9-5 job......

Actually.....although I feel thankful that my job pays me well enough to be able to afford the horses.....it takes time, sacrifice and dedication rather than luck in order for me to have them.

Although as a young 'un I was a desperate 'work for rides' type so its something I've always done.

Yes.....I was dropped on my head as a child


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## Sarah1 (11 January 2012)

tinselmoo said:



			Actually.....although I feel thankful that my job pays me well enough to be able to afford the horses.....it takes time, sacrifice and dedication rather than luck in order for me to have them
		
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This^^^^^^^^ for me too!


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## Hippona (11 January 2012)

PonyIAmNotFood said:



			Its a massive generalisation to say that RS riders know less than horse owners, I know plenty and have seen plenty of private owners riding their super obese cobs in a narrow, ill fitting saddle, turning them out on good grass until lami hits, etc. Clearly they know more than a RS rider.
		
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But....where are these owners getting their info from? RS? Or are they leaving RS too early- having mastered rising trot and heading off into the world of horse ownership un-prepared?

I think everyoone should go to RS initially- if they are not lucky enough to be born into a horsey family......and if they feel that horse ownership is for them then some sort of owners course would be ideal.

I have seen novice RS riders buy a horse and keep it in cheap DIY livery and it all go totally tits up....partially because they don't know what they are doing ......and mainly because they don't know, that they don't know what they are doing.....


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## PonyIAmNotFood (11 January 2012)

Sarah1 said:



			I have to admit this is actually an excellent point - as I said before I do know owners who talk the talk but can't walk the walk...

Do you think that most RS riders would know how to fit a saddle?  As in how wide it would need to be, how much stuffing it needs, if it moves when ridden on? Etc etc etc.
		
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IF they want to learn the resources are provided by both the schools I ride at, obviously people who come once a week and just want a plod wont be interested but any kids or adults who help out or ask will be taught the basics of tack fit so they would spot that it's bouncing about or not sitting right in front or whatever. Then they would hopefully have the sense to get the fitter out if it was their horse. I think the point some people are making that you should learn at a RS for a few years before getting a horse is a good one, like tinselmoo says. This brings back my view that there should be a test you have to pass before being allowed a horse!


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## charlie76 (11 January 2012)

Quite agree with the above. Many RS have the staff and facility and oportunity to learn more about horse care and management, its just some people, suprisingly enough! Just want it to be a weekly hobby, its not their life and therefore have no inclination to learn anymore.They just want to enjoy the riding they do.


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## Ibblebibble (11 January 2012)

A riding school is no different to any other school, it teaches you the basics and you can choose to expand on certain areas (subjects) that interest you just like at senior school, but just like senior school it can only teach you so much, sooner or later you have to get out there and experience the real world. how many of us left school thinking we were pretty damn grown up and knew everything only to realise after a while that we were really only just beginners??  RS life is the same, you can reach a certain level and be pretty confident that you know plenty, then you enter the world of horse ownership and realise that you're still a beginner

A good RS can be invaluable in giving a good foundation of riding and knowledge but it can never replicate horse ownership


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## Hippona (11 January 2012)

Quick tale....when I kept my horses on livery there was a novice family with a couple of ponies- no problem, nice people- took advice and learnt and did their best. Some family members came to see the ponies- decided they were cute and reserved a stable for a pony for their daughter......

They then went to the sales...picked up a yearling (covered with lice) and brought it back to the yard......in a transit van. Clueless was an understatement.....

All kinds of disasters ensued....YO was nearly tearing her hair out on a daily basis.....luckily this phase didn't last too long and pony thankfully went on to someone who actually knew what they were doing....

I doubt very much someone who had been educated at a decent RS would have done this......Personally I feel that as horse ownership has become relatively cheaper over the years it has made it easier for people to jump in at the deep end.....sometimes the cost difference between regular quality lessons and a cheaper end of the market DIY livery isn't that great- so why pay a RS when you can have your own? You can understand the thinking from a financial POV I guess.....


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## Kat (11 January 2012)

tinselmoo said:



			......Personally I feel that as horse ownership has become relatively cheaper over the years it has made it easier for people to jump in at the deep end.....sometimes the cost difference between regular quality lessons and a cheaper end of the market DIY livery isn't that great- so why pay a RS when you can have your own? You can understand the thinking from a financial POV I guess.....
		
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Whilst I would never say that horse ownership is cheap, I can confirm that there actually isn't a huge cost difference between owning and having lessons! As both my husband and I were having lessons it probably would have been cheaper for us to buy a cheap nag and have it at some ropey DIY yard if we had been so inclined. 

Luckily our instructors and our good riding school had inspired us to want a bit more so we actually spend more having our horse at a yard with decent facilities and services etc.


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## Amaranta (11 January 2012)

PonyIAmNotFood said:



			Its a massive generalisation to say that RS riders know less than horse owners, I know plenty and have seen plenty of private owners riding their super obese cobs in a narrow, ill fitting saddle, turning them out on good grass until lami hits, etc. Clearly they know more than a RS rider.
		
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Whilst I agree with you that there are some horse owners who lack experience and common sense, it is ridiculous to expect a RS rider to have the experience of a long term horse owner - this is a fact not a generalisation   and I am not bashing the RS rider here, we all have to start somewhere.


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## dunkley (11 January 2012)

PonyIAmNotFood said:



			Everyone appears to be assuming all RS riders are beginners, most definately not the case.
		
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I don't think _anyone_ has said, or implied this 

_*Good*_ riding schools are, as I said before, worth their weight in gold.  They provide an excellent foundation for ownership.  I have, however seen poor, ill-equipped 'riding schools' encourage clients with very little knowledge to buy a horse, and then keep it on livery at the 'school', where the 'support' they get is as inadequate as the original instruction.  But of course, double whammy for the 'school' - they get livery, and a captive market that continues to pay for unqualified, highly suspect, 'tuition'.  One of my distant inlaws sent their very young child (8, or 9) to a so-called 'riding school' and asked after two years if I could recommend anywhere, as the child was 'getting bored' (_Why_ didn't they ask in the first place?).  I directed them to a small (approved) RS run by a friend, a qualified instructor. My friend was horrified that this child, after two years, did not understand what "change the rein" meant!


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## PonyIAmNotFood (11 January 2012)

Amaranta said:



			Whilst I agree with you that there are some horse owners who lack experience and common sense, it is ridiculous to expect a RS rider to have the experience of a long term horse owner - this is a fact not a generalisation   and I am not bashing the RS rider here, we all have to start somewhere.
		
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You've managed not to generalise to ALL horse owners, saying SOME lack commonsense and experience, therefore it's fair comment that not ALL RS riders lack experience and commonsense, right? 

I'm not saying you should expect ALL RS riders to have experience but I am saying that some are given the opportunity to learn this and do have more than they are given credit for.


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## Amaranta (11 January 2012)

PonyIAmNotFood said:



			You've managed not to generalise to ALL horse owners, saying SOME lack commonsense and experience, therefore it's fair comment that not ALL RS riders lack experience and commonsense, right? 

I'm not saying you should expect ALL RS riders to have experience but I am saying that some are given the opportunity to learn this and do have more than they are given credit for.
		
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Absolutely, SOME RS riders will have more common sense that SOME owners, no doubt about it, it all depends on whether they are willing to admit (or even realise) that they do not know something, we all know novices who soak up info like a sponge, learn how to recognise and deal with situations and go on to become good horse people and owners, BUT there are far more who think because they have ridden walk, trot, canter and can take a small jump that they have learned all there is to learn and therefore stop learning, lots of these become horse owners too, bad ones.


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## PonyIAmNotFood (11 January 2012)

Amaranta said:



			Absolutely, SOME RS riders will have more common sense that SOME owners, no doubt about it, it all depends on whether they are willing to admit (or even realise) that they do not know something, we all know novices who soak up info like a sponge, learn how to recognise and deal with situations and go on to become good horse people and owners, BUT there are far more who think because they have ridden walk, trot, canter and can take a small jump that they have learned all there is to learn and therefore stop learning, lots of these become horse owners too, bad ones.
		
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I know far more RS riders willing to admit they don't know everything and far more willing to learn and develop than private owners with that attitude. They come from both sides but I have met more private owners who are self proclaimed 'experts'. ETA. These are not usually from a school background, more from the background where they learnt on private horses.


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## ChesnutsRoasting (11 January 2012)

A good riding school, with experienced instructors, is a wonderful environment to start learning about horses and ride to a competent level. Riding experience is gained through riding as many different horses as is possible. I know folks who have owned horses all their lives and are no great shakes. As a child, from a non-horsey background, my riding school and their wonderful instructors were a godsend and set me up for furthering my knowledge of all things equine. I can still hear my instructors voice reverberating in my ears when I question myself. As a child it was a wonderful experience and instilled in me the  dedication required to strive for continual improvement and satisfaction.


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## Spiritedly (11 January 2012)

When I was at school my friend had her own horse I rode at a riding school, when it came to advice for bitting, feeding etc she came to me. Why? because I didn't think I knew it all and was gods gift to horses and I spent every spare minute learning! I read books, I asked questions and I spent time around a variety of different horses. No rs riders don't have to worry about hay, farriers etc but that doesn't make them any less knowledgeable about them. I'm sure everyone on here whether they own horses or not knows about the escalating price of hay and that horses need shoeing/trimming! and bitting/ tack isn't much of an example given the amount of posts on here asking for advice on which to use! Horsemanship comes with horse ownership?  Does that mean a horse owner of a year whose never had a lesson knows more than a rs rider of 20 years who regularly helps at the stables?


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## supercowpony (11 January 2012)

Luckily, I have ridden for the past 7 years or so at a very good riding school. You are expected to want to learn about horse care as well as riding, being taught to tack up, groom, and rug etc.
I also think my instructor/yard owner/riding school owner is one of the few who actually tries to teach people 'feel'. Once the rider gets to a certain level in the basics she very actively tries to make them 'school' the horses. She will tell them the horse is falling out through the shoulder, why the horse is falling out through the shoulder and how to correct it. The pupils however gain valuable experience by riding a variety of horses, and so encountering horses with a variety of faults or traits.

Also offered, which I think I would have benefited hugely from before buying my own, is part loan of a riding school horse. I really think more riding schools should offer this, as you learn to ride on your own and 'school' yourself, but with supervision. You look after the horse, but are safe in the knowledge that if you have done something wrong, the RS staff will correct it and tell you to LEARN from your mistake.

I was a riding school rider (with some other horses thrown in every now and again) when I bought my own cob. He was less than ideal, 4yrs and very green over from Ireland. I'd also bought him as a safe responsive horse, but as he got fitter he soon became a forward going more experienced ride. Without the support of a very horsey stepmother (ex international eventer and now successful show rider) who schooled my cob for me, and taught me on him, and then the confidence my RI gave me in that I was good enough for him, and that I shouldn't be scared of him and taking me out XC and competing, I am pretty sure I would have sold my cob.
I was very lucky to have all this experienced support, and after 6 months I felt happy that I had in fact bought the right horse, though we both needed a bit of work to get to that point. 

He is a VERY different ride to a normal RS horse, but is used at my RS for the more experienced riders. Many of the horses are working liveries, and so not typical RS horses. Many regularly compete/hunt.

However, my horse would not be suitable for most RS riders to look after or ride by themselves. I think it is the independence and responsibility that comes with your own horse which makes a difference, and though I've now had my cob for 3 years, I feel happy and secure knowing he is on a yard where I have constant support if I need it.
I have gone from always having a lesson when I ride him, to schooling by myself and having a lesson nearly every week.

I do however miss the opportunity to ride a wider range of horses.


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## maresmaid (11 January 2012)

PonyIAmNotFood said:



			The attitude towards RS riders really gets my back up. I have ridden at one for 12 years, started helping there at the age of 10 and now run the yard at weekends and supervise the kid volunteers, teaching them stable management etc. The riders get their horses themselves and take them in, they un tack and rug up, and lessons are catered to the rider. If kids/adults want to help out they can as long as they are over 10, and there are pony days for younger kids to learn management etc on. We don't hack to be honest, but if the kids who help are insured they can hack around the fields. Advanced riders learn how to improve the horses way of going and lateral movements etc. Advanced riders also help bring on the youngsters/school 'naughty' horses. If people don't want to get involved and just want to come once a week for a potter about that's fine too, it's up to them!

I know many of my friends and other riders who learnt with us have gone on to be very successful with 'normal' horses outside of the school, and I have ridden and schooled plenty of others myself. I am also on the uni riding team and have the ability to get on almost anything and get a tune out of it. (Not blowing my own horn but making a point). People are very prejudiced against RS riders and I just don't get it.
		
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I don't believe there is anything at all wrong with riding school riders, it is right  that people have the chance to learn about and enjoy this fantasticly enjoyable, exciting, and frustrating hobby that we all love so much. We are not all lucky enough to have grown up with horses in our families and riding schools have allowed many many people to enjoy horses and go on to be horse owners and very good riders, but riding school horses ridden in riding school situations in general are the STARTING point for riders, a good riding school will lay a solid foundation for a rider to develop and build their skills on, but many riders who have only ever had very limited exposure to riding within a school situation do think that because they can Gallop and pop a fence without falling off they are fully paid up members of the "Experienced Riders Club" I have seen these riders often on holiday hacks with my daughter, they always book on the "Fast hacks" and complain if they are given a horse to ride that needs a "proper" rider on it's back to make it move out of walk into a lazy trot - and I have had some lovely rides out on these horses rejected by the "experienced" I-have-had-a-lesson-every-week-for-the-last-2-years-riding school riders.

Riding school should not be knocked, they are a very important part of our sport, and a good riding school can do a great job in introducing people to a lifetime of the enjoyment of horses, and the riding school riders who can accept that they are on the first step of a very exciting and ENDLESS journey, and can sit upon any type of horse, be it a slow plod, or a sharp TB, and find something new that each horse can teach them, are the ones who will get the most out of the opportunity to ride.


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## Pearlsasinger (11 January 2012)

VoR said:



			Well, on the other hand, you could say that YOU are the lucky ones being in a position to own your own horses, would it not be fair to say that a lot of people (actually probably most) use RS because they either can't afford to own, don't have the property to own, are taking the first steps to learn to ride or maybe, just maybe, they understand they lack knowledge so aren't confident enough to care for their own? I reckon they'd give their right arms to have to sit up all night with their own horse or to have the chance to learn from owning!


I certainly hope that they wouldn't!  I can think of very little that is worse than sleeping in the stable every night for a month with  a very ill foal and his dam, with metritis and infection-induced laminitis, (the foal was pts after 4 wks, the mare is still with us, 20 yrs later) or going out every hour through the night to check on the mare with a rectal prolapse, who had to be pts a week later, or staying up 'til 3 am with the mare who had a stroke and then ringing the hunt in the morning.  I certainly wouldn't wish any of those experiences on any-one but always emphasise to people who are considering buying a horse that they need to be prepared to do all of those things and more, including making sure that they stable/graze their horse somewhere accessible to the winch if the horse has to be pts in situ.  I wonder how many Rs riders have thought about that.  I'm sure that RS riders do get upset if they arrive for their weekly lesson to be told that a favourite horse has had to be pts since they last saw it but I'm afraid that does not prepare you for having to call the vet in an emergency situation, discuss the prognosis, make the decision to pts and arrange for the disposal of the body and THEN come to terms with the loss of an animal that you have nurtured for years.

As a general view of this thread;

Overall I think that a lot of people are generalising and far too judgemental of RS riders as a group! 
I don't think that many people, if any were generalising or decrying RS riders but actually saying that  they, themselves had learned far more from owning their first horse than they did at a RS, even if the RS was good and gave them a good grounding in the basics 

Just like everywhere else in life there will be good, bad and indifferent people and in this instance riders. That is human. Very trueThey all have their reasons for doing what they do and probably have just as much fun in their own way as you or I or anyone, who are we to judge what is right or wrong for them without knowing their individual circumstances? I know a few schools where there are people who simply lack confidence but still enjoy the work they do within the school is that wrong? What gives us the right to say it is or isn't?
		
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I haven't read anywhere that someone said that RS riders were wrong, merely that they lack experience.


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## VoR (12 January 2012)

The point I was making (of course noone would wish/choose to have to nurse a sick horse  Clearly the taking of arguments to the absurd is a bit too advanced!), is that many in RS (from personal experience) want to own but can't for whatever reason, so get their 'fix' at a RS, nothing wrong with that.

I do get the feeling that there is an undertone in SOME (please note some, not all and if you feel this is directed at you then that could be a case of YOU feeling 'the cap fits'!!!) posts that RS riders lack something ('I own my own horse therefore I am more experienced and know more about horse care than you') and as is usual in life generalise to the extreme ('RS riders do this, don't have this knowledge/experience' - no ALL lack knowledge or experience! People too often take a single experience/situation and use this as their basis for judgement on all similar situations rather than taking experiences/situations as unique, no two are ever quite the same, it is like saying all politicians are bent and in it for what they can get out of it...............hmm, bad example!), actually I agree that you can learn more from owning in terms of the care of a horse and you do take on a massive commitment with all the difficult situations and decisions that horse ownership brings, it doesn't necessarily follow though that because you own you know more than the next or have more knowledge than them (plenty of examples in the press and courts of horse owners who clearly don't!).


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## Sarah1 (12 January 2012)

Spiritedly said:



			Why? because I didn't think I knew it all and was gods gift to horses and I spent every spare minute learning! I read books, I asked questions and I spent time around a variety of different horses
		
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Funnily enough horse owners can read too! 

This comment isn't exclusive to RS riders - most owners read magazines & books in order to extend their knowledge too.

An awful lot of owners think they know it all and can come across with a 'holier than thou' attitude but RS riders are the same too - OP for example, having read some of her previous posts it would appear than no-one can tell her anything she doesn't already know!

I have been a RS rider and I have been a horse owner - I have personal experience of both - like many others.  Without a doubt, when it comes to horse care/management I have learned most of what I know from having my own horse and I still have loads to learn!   That probably applies to riding too if I'm honest but I think that's because my RS wasn't like some of those described on here   I dare say some of the RS riders who have places like Charlie76's to go to would ride far better than I do though!

I now have a fabulous instructor who teaches me on my own horse and I'm learning even more from him  many, many owners will be in the same boat as me.

I agree with those that have said there should be some sort of test or course you have to take to own a horse - some people seem to think it's like looking after a big dog!


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## VoR (12 January 2012)

Sarah1 said:



			I agree with those that have said there should be some sort of test or course you have to take to own a horse - some people seem to think it's like looking after a big dog! 

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Have discussed this with people in the past and yes have to agree that there should be either a test or a need to evidence that there is a support network with relevant experience. If you go to the RSPCA or similar they do home visits and interviews to decide on suitability before letting you have a dog/cat/tortoise (!!??), Social Services wouldn't let you foster/adopt a child without clearance, etc, etc.

Also, (controversial moment!! ) there should be some kind of requirement on anyone selling an animal to ensure that it goes to a suitable home perhaps????


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## Sarah1 (12 January 2012)

VoR said:



			Have discussed this with people in the past and yes have to agree that there should be either a test or a need to evidence that there is a support network with relevant experience. If you go to the RSPCA or similar they do home visits and interviews to decide on suitability before letting you have a dog/cat/tortoise (!!??), Social Services wouldn't let you foster/adopt a child without clearance, etc, etc.

Also, (controversial moment!! ) there should be some kind of requirement on anyone selling an animal to ensure that it goes to a suitable home perhaps????
		
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Absolutely!

And I agree - sellers have a moral obligation to make sure the horse is going to a suitable home where possible but unfortunately some people just don't care


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## Spudlet (12 January 2012)

It's an interesting concept, but given the massive variety of opinion on the most basic subjects on here (and that's putting it mildly), who would decide what makes a home suitable, and who would enforce it?


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## xspiralx (12 January 2012)

I haven't read the whole thread, but my thoughts are this.

I'm someone who learned to ride in a riding school, before getting my own horse after 4 years.

My experience, and from what I've seen from other people who have ridden in mainly RS environments, is that a RS will teach you to walk, trot, canter and jump - to stay on, move with the horse, and learn the basics - but not teach to ride in an advanced way. Riding at a riding school is about improving the rider, not the horse.

But the two go hand in hand.

I didn't learn about schooling a horse, working it in an outline, seeing a stride, educating a green horse - until I got my own. I was reasonable for a RS standard, and certainly the foundations they put in place were good ones, but my riding improved 20 fold when I got my own horse and was riding daily, hacking out, competing, schooling, jumping.

Not all RS horses are plods by any means, and I wouldn't say someone who has ridden only at a RS is necessarily a beginner - but I think at most, there is a limit to how much you can develop your feel and ability when you're riding for one hour a week on a RS horse.

However there are many many people who do own horses who can't ride worth a damn - I think its a bit unfair to cast aspersions on a RS rider buying their own horse - its a learning curve that everyone has to go through.


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## Spiritedly (12 January 2012)

Sarah1 said:



			Funnily enough horse owners can read too! 

This comment isn't exclusive to RS riders - most owners read magazines & books in order to extend their knowledge too.

An awful lot of owners think they know it all and can come across with a 'holier than thou' attitude but RS riders are the same too - OP for example, having read some of her previous posts it would appear than no-one can tell her anything she doesn't already know!

I have been a RS rider and I have been a horse owner - I have personal experience of both - like many others.  Without a doubt, when it comes to horse care/management I have learned most of what I know from having my own horse and I still have loads to learn!   That probably applies to riding too if I'm honest but I think that's because my RS wasn't like some of those described on here   I dare say some of the RS riders who have places like Charlie76's to go to would ride far better than I do though!

I now have a fabulous instructor who teaches me on my own horse and I'm learning even more from him  many, many owners will be in the same boat as me.

I agree with those that have said there should be some sort of test or course you have to take to own a horse - some people seem to think it's like looking after a big dog! 

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I'm not saying horse owners don't read, I've owned horses for over 20 years now and I still read up on things. The point I was trying to make was , yes if you have your own horse it may be easier, especially in this age of health and safety,  but surely the real measure of horsemanship is the willingness to learn?  To admit that you don't know it all? 

As an after thought...how many people on here who own their own horses still see an instructor, have lessons? Doesn't that make us still rs pupils? Albeit on our own horses and maybe on a private basis


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## Spudlet (12 January 2012)

xspiralx said:



			I haven't read the whole thread, but my thoughts are this.

I'm someone who learned to ride in a riding school, before getting my own horse after 4 years.

My experience, and from what I've seen from other people who have ridden in mainly RS environments, is that a RS will teach you to walk, trot, canter and jump - to stay on, move with the horse, and learn the basics - but not teach to ride in an advanced way. Riding at a riding school is about improving the rider, not the horse.

But the two go hand in hand.

I didn't learn about schooling a horse, working it in an outline, seeing a stride, educating a green horse - until I got my own. I was reasonable for a RS standard, and certainly the foundations they put in place were good ones, but my riding improved 20 fold when I got my own horse and was riding daily, hacking out, competing, schooling, jumping.

Not all RS horses are plods by any means, and I wouldn't say someone who has ridden only at a RS is necessarily a beginner - but I think at most, there is a limit to how much you can develop your feel and ability when you're riding for one hour a week on a RS horse.

However there are many many people who do own horses who can't ride worth a damn - I think its a bit unfair to cast aspersions on a RS rider buying their own horse - its a learning curve that everyone has to go through.
		
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I agree with this post. Not everyone springs from the ground fully formed, wearing jods and a hat, and clutching a crop in one hand and a Manual of Horsemanship in the other. Everyone has to learn somewhere.

I rode at RSs for many years because I was not one of the fully-formed, then I moved onto sharing privately owned horses, hacking them out and having lessons on them too. For me, the step was not too huge because of the wide variety of horses I had ridden and looked after in various RSs, some of which were not in the least ploddy - for example, one RS that I hacked from had mainly young horses, which while not mentally unstable (well, no more than most horses), certainly needed more riding than the stereotypical brain-dead plodder. There was something new to learn from every horse, from the very first oldie I ever sat on to the greenie that I shared most recently, and I'm sure that when I start riding again that will still be the case.  

The trick to this whole horsemanship thing is continuing to learn - some owners just aren't interested in doing this, while others are not. This lady, for example, had horses for many years, but I think I'd sooner have the most green RS rider in charge of a horse of mine than her!


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## Syrah (12 January 2012)

I learnt to ride at a riding school.

It's a generalisation to declare all RS's only teach the basics.

I have been taught an independent seat, working in an outline, seat aids, leg aids, the feel of a horse.  Why?  Because I asked.  I didn't just turn up, ride and go home.  If the instructor asked me to do something I asked why, what does it do, what will I achieve.  I also asked at the beginning of a lesson to learn something - using seat aids as an example amongst many other things.

There are people who just turn up ride and go home and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.  Just because some people do things differently doesn't make it or them wrong.  Just because I'm the sort of person who likes to know the why's and wherefore's and perfect what I'm doing, doesn't make me a better person or rider than the next, in fact I'm a pretty cr*p rider considering I've been around horses for nearly 30 years.

It is different owning your own horse and being out of the comfort zone of an RS but that is a mental barrier that most overcome.  It takes some a little longer than others, but we all started somewhere.

The horse world is full of judgemental, opinionated, inflated egos.  We would all have a much more pleasurable time if we kept our noses out, accept that everyone is different and so long as our horses are well cared for, happy and healthy who gives a stuff.


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## VoR (12 January 2012)

Spudlet said:



			It's an interesting concept, but given the massive variety of opinion on the most basic subjects on here (and that's putting it mildly), who would decide what makes a home suitable, and who would enforce it?
		
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Hey, I just do 'big-picture-strategic-stuff', over to you guys for the detail.


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## Spudlet (12 January 2012)

VoR said:



			Hey, I just do 'big-picture-strategic-stuff', over to you guys for the detail. 

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Arrggghh that makes you a MINISTER!


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## VoR (12 January 2012)

Spudlet said:



			Arrggghh that makes you a MINISTER! 

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I think it's called 'copping out' Spudlet


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## Hedwards (12 January 2012)

It really does all come down to the riding school, there are plenty out there who will take the money and have people sit on the same horse/pony every week, and do the same exercises everyweek, and not really care about the riders progression.

There are others like the one the OP described in her original post,

and then there are the ones like the RS i learnt to ride at. They only had 4 ponies when i started there as they were primarily an international event yard. They really taught you to ride, but there wasnt the tacking up, grooming etc etc if you just went for a weekly lesson. I started there aged 5 (I think) and cried the first time I rode one of the ponies (having started riding a year prior at a different riding school) - the pony was forward going, and not at all like I had been used to, ie. ponies following the one in front, and just cantering to the back of the ride. No, these ponies meant business and it was a real step up. 

I would spend all weekend and all school holidays at the yard, working for free (and the occasional ride) and learnt so so much, from stable management, horse care even down to what you should do if a horse gets cast - this wasnt a service offered by the yard, but something I wanted to do - and lets face it, how many yards would turn away free labour (this is before the whole health and safety stuff that goes on today) eventually the ponies went and werent replaced (by which time I had grown and progressed to horses). My instructor always said to me he wasnt a very good teacher, but he could tell me what i needed to do to make each different horse i rode go well - and this is where I think i was incredibly lucky - I was taught as if i was riding my own horse, and it was all about the way the horse was going and less about me (although was regularly shouted at for slouching or lower leg too forward etc etc!!)

So when i bought my first horse, I was able to get on and have a lesson with my instructor and it was absolutely no different to a normal lesson... 

So sometimes yes, its possible to say a RS rider is going to have no clue about 'real life riding' because they've never had the chance to do it, doesnt mean they wouldnt be more than capable with a little experience, however there will be plenty of others out there who would be more than able to just get on with it due to the experience they've had at their RS.


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## Spudlet (12 January 2012)

VoR said:



			I think it's called 'copping out' Spudlet 

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Yes indeed, very ministerial behaviour there


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## VoR (12 January 2012)

So are we agreed then:

a) it depends on the schools approach and;

b) it depends on the person;

There is no one right or wrong outcome.


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## Kat (12 January 2012)

Spiritedly said:



			but surely the real measure of horsemanship is the willingness to learn?  To admit that you don't know it all?
		
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That ^^^ 100% agree!

Willingness to learn and an enquiring mind is absolutely the most important thing for the welfare of your horse and your progress as a horseman.


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## Syrah (12 January 2012)

VoR said:



			So are we agreed then:

a) it depends on the schools approach and;

b) it depends on the person;

There is no one right or wrong outcome. 

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Absolutely!  Very well put


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## Lauren21 (12 January 2012)

When I started riding again after a very long break! I started working at a riding school in hope that for my work every week, I would get the chance to maybe ride a horse in return - although this never happened! 
But by doing this I had just over a year worth of experience from the ground before I even got on a horse! I think this kinda helped, because I ride at a RS, a different one though! and its great, I know the horses I ride and now after around 6 months of being back in the saddle I have already part loaned a horse, and am now, at my current stables, are moving on to the youngsters who will test me even more! So, I guess it depends, the school I'm at is great and I go early to give Millie a good rub and a few polos  and untack her at the end, groom her and then whatever else is needed.


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## MuesliMoo (12 January 2012)

Sorry I haven't read all the posts, but this is something that really really angers me. *Rant Alert*

The reason I have been "just a riding school rider" for the last 15 years is because I couldn't afford my own horse, I wasn't lucky enough to have one bought for me as a child, and I've spent 5 years at uni training to do a profession which will earn me enough to let me finally get my own.  So why do I get tarnished with being "just a riding school rider" just because I couldn't afford my own?  

Who is going to be a better rider?

a) someone who has no lessons and just rides one horse or

b) someone who has weekly lessons and rides a variety of different horses?


As "just a riding school rider" I used to work at the yard in holidays including teaching, school the horses, take them to shows, and even took the horse I rode to Hickstead to do dressage.  Yet I was still looked down upon by owners and my opinion not listened to because I couldn't possibly know anything to do with horses.  No, I'm not the best rider in the world, I have a lot to learn still, and no I certainly don't know everything about horse care, but please, don't look down on me just because I haven't been in the circumstances to buy my own!

Yes, of course, there's the people who are still learning the basics and know nothing about horsecare, there's the kids who just have lessons so they can ride rather than wanting to learn anything.  But there's also some people who carry on at riding schools for years and years developing their skills, and in no way should they be looked down on as any less knowledgeable than an owner.  

*Rant over*


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## rhino (12 January 2012)

MuesliMoo said:



			Sorry I haven't read all the posts, but this is something that really really angers me. *Rant Alert*

*Rant over* 

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Well maybe if you'd actually read the thread you would have realised that no-one is knocking riding school riders, merely pointing out *their* experiences of the differences they discovered when they moved onto horse ownership from riding schools


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## JFTDWS (12 January 2012)

MuesliMoo said:



			there's also some people who carry on at riding schools for years and years developing their skills, and in no way should they be looked down on as any less knowledgeable than an owner.
		
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Why the devil not?  There are many reasons that have been discussed in this thread why RS riders have different experiences than horse owners - and as such are _generally _less knowledgeable in some areas than the average owner.  RS riders have other advantages - often riding more horses than a singe horse owner, for example - but most of us acknowledge that we have learnt more since leaving an RS and acquiring our own horses.  Obviously there are exceptions, but they are the minority, not the norm 

I can't stand this "I wasnt privileged enough to be bought a pony therefore nobody should be allowed to suggest I'm any less knowledgabe than a privileged horse owner" nonsense.  The majority of people on here bought and pay for their own horses, making the necessary sacrifices to afford it - often achieving it on less than you would spend to ride regularly at an RS...


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## MuesliMoo (12 January 2012)

JFTD said:



			Why the devil not?  There are many reasons that have been discussed in this thread why RS riders have different experiences than horse owners - and as such are _generally _less knowledgeable in some areas than the average owner.  RS riders have other advantages - often riding more horses than a singe horse owner, for example - but most of us acknowledge that we have learnt more since leaving an RS and acquiring our own horses.  Obviously there are exceptions, but they are the minority, not the norm 

I can't stand this "I wasnt privileged enough to be bought a pony therefore nobody should be allowed to suggest I'm any less knowledgabe than a privileged horse owner" nonsense.  The majority of people on here bought and pay for their own horses, making the necessary sacrifices to afford it - often achieving it on less than you would spend to ride regularly at an RS...
		
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I didn't say that actually you're putting words into my mouth   I merely said that the reason I didn't have my own (I'm getting my own on Saturday!) was because a) I wasn't lucky enough to have one as a child (and yes, a child who gets bought a horse is lucky IMO ) and b) because I didn't have enough money, and enough time (uni) to have my own.  

What makes me cross is when I automatically get put down for being a RS rider without anyone knowing my background, I don't think it's fair to immediately make those assumptions.  As it happens I've volunteered for a rescue centre, taught RDA, and had a part loan for 6 years alongside being a RS rider, so yes, I think I probably actually know more now than I would if I'd had my own, as I've handled lots of different types of horses, medicated different horses, observed lots and lots of different vet visits, mucked out different types of bedding, fed lots of different feeds etc. etc.


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## rhino (12 January 2012)

MuesliMoo said:



			I merely said that the reason I didn't have my own (I'm getting my own on Saturday!) was because a) I wasn't lucky enough to have one as a child (and yes, a child who gets bought a horse is lucky IMO ) and b) because I didn't have enough money, and enough time (uni) to have my own.
		
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 How exciting  Don't think I slept for a couple of nights when I was waiting for my boy to be vetted/delivered! 

I *bet* if you came back here in a year you would be telling us how much you've learned by having your own horse   That's all anyone on here was saying!


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## JFTDWS (12 January 2012)

MuesliMoo said:



			As it happens I've volunteered for a rescue centre, taught RDA, and had a part loan for 6 years alongside being a RS rider, so yes, I think I probably actually know more now than I would if I'd had my own, as I've handled lots of different types of horses, medicated different horses, observed lots and lots of different vet visits, mucked out different types of bedding, fed lots of different feeds etc. etc.
		
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And the majority of your experience has therefore come from outside the RS - which is an entirely different matter - the OP was asserting that you can gain as much experience at an RS as you can being a private owner.  That is what most people are disputing.  Hell, by your argument, I could call myself an RS rider - I went for a lesson at an RS last year, the fact that I've owned for years and spent my teenage years working with horses is cleary irrelevant


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## MuesliMoo (12 January 2012)

JFTD said:



			And the majority of your experience has therefore come from outside the RS - which is an entirely different matter - the OP was asserting that you can gain as much experience at an RS as you can being a private owner.  That is what most people are disputing.  Hell, by your argument, I could call myself an RS rider - I went for a lesson at an RS last year, the fact that I've owned for years and spent my teenage years working with horses is cleary irrelevant 

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But for the last 3/4 years I have just been a RS rider, and I have been constantly looked down upon by horse owners, and it's not a nice feeling!

Rhino - oh yes no doubt I will learn lots, but they will be different things to the things that riding at a RS has taught me


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## JFTDWS (12 January 2012)

MuesliMoo said:



			But for the last 3/4 years I have just been a RS rider, and I have been constantly looked down upon by horse owners, and it's not a nice feeling!
		
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Unfortunately that is life...  If I took my competition horse to Hickstead to do dressage the majority of other competitors would look down on him to - literally and metaphorically!


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## MuesliMoo (12 January 2012)

JFTD said:



			Unfortunately that is life...  If I took my competition horse to Hickstead to do dressage the majority of other competitors would look down on him to - literally and metaphorically!
		
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An example of the small mindedness of the human race, and the "holier than thou" attitude which I despise  

I have plans to take my small fluffy exmoor to hickstead to do dressage one day, could be quite amusing to see peoples faces!


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## JFTDWS (12 January 2012)

MuesliMoo said:



			An example of the small mindedness of the human race, and the "holier than thou" attitude which I despise  

I have plans to take my small fluffy exmoor to hickstead to do dressage one day, could be quite amusing to see peoples faces!
		
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Oh well, if you see a small fluffy highland, we can change the world together


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## PapaFrita (12 January 2012)

I can't be bothered to read the entire thread.
I learnt to ride in a riding school. I was pretty good, so I thought. I realised how wrong I was when I got my first horse and only I was responsible for his schooling.
I also helped out weekends at a livery yard in London. I groomed, tacked up, mucked out, gave feeds, cleaned tack, I learned LOADS and none of it prepared me fully for actually caring for and taking responsibility for my own. It is a totally different ball game which you will realise when you actually have to do it.


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## ShadowFlame (12 January 2012)

I think it's more of a lack of experience than anything else. No matter how long you're at a riding school for, you'll only learn so much. When you finally take the plunge and have your own horse, it's a whole different kettle of fish. 

In that sense, as a RS rider there's no commitment - you come and go as you like. Once a week, once a month, whatever floats your boat. You don't have to worry about waking up with the lurgy on Christmas morning and still having to battle your way down to the stables. You don't experience youngsters, more difficult rides, or varying work - every last horse is a schoolmaster who is not considered a liability, is in regular work, is fairly fit, has suitable tack and you can expect the same day in and day out. You don't have to worry about "oh, he's thrown a shoe, no riding for the next 2 weeks because of farrier's waiting list", then "well he hasn't been ridden in two weeks, I wonder how much fun being bronced off will be today?". You don't have to worry about fitness regimes, how much work they need to be in,  how much work they're capable of doing, or whether the tack they're in is being detrimental to the way they're going. There's so many more factors, and so many more things you have to consider. There's also a big difference between being plonked on a RS plod who's used to different riders, and riding one that's only used to one, is responsive, and is only ridden for say 3hrs a week.

I understand because as a helper at a RS years ago, I too thought "there's no difference!" Believe me, there is, and it took a while to adjust to it.


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## Pearlsasinger (12 January 2012)

MuesliMoo said:



			Rhino - oh yes no doubt I will learn lots, but they will be different things to the things that riding at a RS has taught me 

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Which is exactly the point which most horse-owners on this thread have been trying to make!


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## chartoltewright (13 January 2012)

My RS taught me everything i know.I started there when I was two and started having lessons at 5. I loaned my first 3 ponies off them and they were super helpful, helping me out if I needed it and giving me a telling off if I was slacking on my stable management. I bought my first two horses from them and worked there full time on my gap year. Then I got a riding scholarship for a certain very expensive boarding school and I was the only one there with a horse worth less than a grand and no instructor with credentials. I actually remember my first lesson there my instructor asking me who my trainer was after everybody else was going on about how they were trained my gb selectors that my instructor had her stage 2. It was so embarrassing, but I was the one with the scholarship and they were not!
I still have my lessons there to this day! They let me break and back youngsters when I was there and I had a damn few projects too, I bloody loved it! So you can never discredit a RS rider! If you're riding school is teaching you properly, like at more advanced levels more advanced schooling and talking about solving niggles with the horses after warming in in open order etc, you're on to a winner. I'm still a RS rider in my head and damn proud!


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## topclass (13 January 2012)

I agree with you Chartoltewright I have had horse from being 5 brought up on a RS which was run my an Examiner who did all of my stable/riding exams passed them all worked her stud yard, ran competition yard and also competed at novice dressage and CC aswell as 3 day eventing, backing, breaking, reschooling etc and our RS ponies/horses where far from the "dead from the neck up" type horses people think they all are her horses had spirit and a brain and sometime you found out the hard why especially if you got those people how said I used to do this and do that and then end up on the floor cause they have "all the gear but not bloody idea". I will also be proud to be a member of the RS brigade


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## anuvb (13 January 2012)

Haven't read all the thread and am coming to this quite late, but what I have read is really interesting and something I have been mulling over for a while now.

As a pregnant lady I've been on the look out for a sharer who can and is willing to ride a quirky but on the whole well mannered dressage horse. Unfortunately most of the people looking for a share tend to be those moving on from RS and in theory this doesn't bother me but the standard of the riders has been very variable.  


I'm old enough to have learnt to ride in an RS over 20 years ago and on the whole we learnt by the seat of our pants, got involved in tacking up, mucking out and so on. I was a pretty competent rider, got given the naughty ponies and eventually asked to school other peoples. Yet the 2 biggest gains in my riding knowledge happened when (a) I started private versus group lessons and (b) we got our first horse as a family. As other's have said being able to make the decisions is an experience which you cannot get in a riding school. 

However, I'm increasingly aware that my 'education' in an RS is not necessarily what most RS's offer now... mainly because of Helath and Safety and fear of litigation.  The RS riders I have had try my horse don't know how to tack up (around lesson 3 of my RS education 20 years ago), pick out feet, brush off after work properly. They've not offered to muck/skip out, feed/water etc. And one - who although was a pretty rider - couldn't bear the thought of cantering my horse and yet she has been learning for over 6 years at her local RS. Now I know my horse is a competition horse, but he's the sort that you can pick up and put down as required and if you want to trundle round with his head in the air he will do so quite willingly, as well as the more advanced movements. There isn't anything to worry about and if I'd been offered the opportunity to ride a horse like him years ago I would have jumped at the chance.

My only conclusion is that most (not all) RS these days only teach riders to go round the outside track following each other and like most things in life the experience you gain depends on the level of opportunity you are given. But I do know some excellent RS's too...

What I will say is that you never stop learning with horses - whatever environment you are in, it's just what you learn that varies.


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## Spudlet (13 January 2012)

There does appear to be one assumption being made... that if you are a 'riding school rider' then all you will ever have done is ride at a riding school, and you won't have gained experience in other ways aside from your lessons. Not neccesarily true...


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## VoR (13 January 2012)

I hear the theme to the Magic Roundabout going round and round and round.................


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## rhino (13 January 2012)

Spudlet said:



			There does appear to be one assumption being made... that if you are a 'riding school rider' then all you will ever have done is ride at a riding school, and you won't have gained experience in other ways aside from your lessons. Not neccesarily true...
		
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Nope, but the OP was on the basis of a riding school _only_ rider which is why most of the replies relate to that scenario


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## sarahhelen1977 (13 January 2012)

Haven't read the whole thread, but here's my two pennies worth! 
I really think it largely depends on WHICH riding school you train at. The place I used to work at had horses right up to GP level, and used youngsters on lessons for more experienced riders. They also offered NVQ/BHS stages courses, and clients doing these courses HAD to put the hours in on the yard.
I also have a client that I used to teach at the RS who now shares my friend's horse - he is working Adv.Medium, and has competed at the nationals several times. 
I accept that this type of RS is an exception, rather than the norm, but it highlights the fact that you can't tar all RS riders with the same brush!


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## madeleine1 (13 January 2012)

i havnt read the whole thing either but a riding school rider can know alot more then a private owner who doesnt hv lessons


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## PolarSkye (13 January 2012)

VoR said:



			I hear the theme to the Magic Roundabout going round and round and round.................
		
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I was just thinking the same thing . . . haven't we flogged this particular dead horse enough yet?  And, yes, the pun was intentional.  

I'm all for lively debate but . . . 

P


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## Fellewell (13 January 2012)

chartoltewright said:



			My RS taught me everything i know.I started there when I was two and started having lessons at 5. I loaned my first 3 ponies off them and they were super helpful, helping me out if I needed it and giving me a telling off if I was slacking on my stable management. I bought my first two horses from them and worked there full time on my gap year. Then I got a riding scholarship for a certain very expensive boarding school and I was the only one there with a horse worth less than a grand and no instructor with credentials. I actually remember my first lesson there my instructor asking me who my trainer was after everybody else was going on about how they were trained my gb selectors that my instructor had her stage 2. It was so embarrassing, but I was the one with the scholarship and they were not!
I still have my lessons there to this day! They let me break and back youngsters when I was there and I had a damn few projects too, I bloody loved it! So you can never discredit a RS rider! If you're riding school is teaching you properly, like at more advanced levels more advanced schooling and talking about solving niggles with the horses after warming in in open order etc, you're on to a winner. I'm still a RS rider in my head and damn proud!
		
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Cracking post. Well done you!
Just out of interest, which riders do you admire?


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## TheoryX1 (13 January 2012)

I personally would not discredit riding school riders, and to be honest I havent read all of this post.  However, I bought my first horse 7 years ago from a riding school, after riding him in lessons for over a year.  To be very honest I didnt actually start to learn to ride what I would call 'properly', ie with a proper contact etc until after I had bought him and had taken him out of a riding school environment.  Oh, and that particular riding school was fairly good as well.  I am of the opinion that its like learning to drive - you learn the actual techniques of driving, but you dont actually 'learn to drive' if you understand me until you have passed your driving test and you get let loose on the roads properly.


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## maresmaid (13 January 2012)

Look i think there is a big misunderstanding here. People are not saying that there is anything wrong with starting to ride at a riding school, many have done just that. What is been said is that there is still a lot more to be learned when you take on your own horse full time. That does not mean that we think riding schools or people who train there are inferior. It is a brilliant idea to move into horse ownership and keep your horse in a riding school environment - you will still learn lots of things in this way that you wouldnt learn otherwise. I honestly dont think that people who have not had responsibilty for keeping their own horse day in and day out will ever understand this point. I might also add that when i lost my second horse after 25 years of   horse ownership i went to a really good riding school for lessons because i wanted some experience of riding different types of horses before i went try any prospective purchases as i had not ridden many different horses for a good few years.


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## badgerdog (13 January 2012)

I work with children at a riding school and the biggest difference I see between them and children who have their own ponies is that the RS kids are technically much better than the one's who have their own ponies.  Kids who have their own ponies are more 'natural' riders and are much more confident but the ones at the RS have better positions and know more about aids, transitions etc because they have more lessons and are constantly being corrected.  It depends on the riding school of course, we are lucky to have good instructors.  Most of the kids I know who have their own ponies haven't been to riding schools and although have lessons, don't have them very frequently.
The kids at our riding school have been placed at dressage competitions but wouldn't dare hunt, whereas my friends children are frustrated by dressage as they aren't very good at it but were happily hunting when they were 6 and 7 years old!


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## tinap (13 January 2012)

Not read the lot but my daughter was taught at a riding school,  they made her the rider she is today.  When they figured that she had a bit of a talent for being able to sit to anything they made use of her by putting her on all the naughties.  The fact that she was small for her age was a great advantage to them as she could sort out the little ones too. 

They chucked her on everything &  anything &  it certainly taught her a lot.  She stopped going to the riding school when she was about 12 to concentrate on her own ponies. She now competes at a pretty high level bs.  

I don't get on with the owner of the school but I will always say that they will certainly teach a kid to ride!!


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## ATrueClassAct (13 January 2012)

I've always viewed RS riders relationship with the horses as a good friendship. You can say no or yes whenever it suits you because they already have "parents or carers" to look after them. The horse will eventually retire from RS life and that's generally when your relationship will end with the horse and your experience with it. I see owning or even loaning to a degree as more of a "marriage" ie) death do us bl***** part  ) you can't just leave the horse when you can no longer ride it, well you can sell it but that's also your responsibilty with loss of value, loosing a horse etc. From what I've gathered on here, generally people keep their old horses til death and look after them every step of the way. Through illness, stress, even money troubles and that's something no riding school can ever teach you I believe. At a riding school your responsibility leaves as soon as you leave the "yard gates", you don't have to go back again or even get back on that horse that threw you off the other week. Where as with your own horse you've gotta go see the bug*** that threw you off or the horse that is on 6 months boxrest. 
I believe that riding school can teach you to a degree the basics of horses but after you take the jump to own horses is a huge learning experience( good and bad). It's like going from school to a job, it's not the same but you can be prepared to the best of the ability of the RS/school.


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## Dovorian (13 January 2012)

OP,

Umm, your local hunt is killing foxes????

I hope not!


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## Puzzles (13 January 2012)

Riding schools have their place. I had mixed experiences of riding schools and would personally rather not ride at all than go back to any of those available to me now. My second riding school was incredible but definitely didn't follow the norm. I used to work there weekends and 1 evening a week as a teenager, and remember being left at the age of 13 (with one other girl the same age) to rug, feed, turn out/bring in and lock up the yard while the owner went to the pub for the evening. We did everything needed there, from organising the (20 foot tall) muckheap into squares and scrubbing water troughs to worming and dealing with the farrier, plus the usual day-to-day duties. When working on Pony Days, to give the owner a break I sometimes stepped in and taught the young riders. The yard failed year after year to get BHS approved, but I learned so much (for better or for worse) there. I never rode a well behaved pony there. The horses tended to be someone else's cast-off. At the time I thought it a good thing as I learned how to deal with all sorts of different behaviours, both on the ground and when riding. However despite this, in retrospect I think it is better to learn how things SHOULD be done to help avoid losses of confidence and bad habits from developing. 
However things were very different then (even though I only stopped going to that riding scool 7 years ago) and most riding schools have their horses readily tacked-up to make life easier. There is also the huge problem of insurance these days, which make riding schools very cautious: often riders aren't even allowed to take their aching feet out of the stirrups after a lesson until tey are about to dismount for safety reasons! I personally found the last riding school I was at very limiting and, although I was a wimp in terms of self confidence, had strong principles and ended up arguing several times with the instructor because I refused to whip the horses according to her reasons. At that point I had run out of riding schools and decided that the only way I was going to learn more than the very basics, as I had long since stopped learning anything new (plus the lessons were EXTREMELY expensive) was to share a horse (i couldn't afford to get my own). Two share horses down the line and I now look after 4 horses and ride 3 of them. Riding schools teach you different things to having your own and to sharing, but they do have their place and everyone gets something different out of them. It depends on the person taking lessons and the riding school itself. Noone can ever say that their horsey experiences make them necessarily superior to another rider, because they are all so valuable in different ways.


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## RainbowDash (21 February 2012)

Hi,

I'm sort of in both camps here.  I'm still re-learning but have my own pony.

Riding schools have their place for those who only wish to ride for pleasure without the responsibility or cost.  My lad is kept at the local riding school (closest Livery to me and good 'cause there's lots of owners about and horsey people to chat with). They run 'own a pony' days for kids and adults that are almost no-holds-barred.  The ponies are fresh from the fields and do play up (a lot) - not surprising how many kids don't like the work, the muck etc - but then again there are those who love the work involved and do go on to have their own horse or pony.

As a lass away from riding school (back then i was used as the test pilot) and back after an absence of 19 years and re-learning I have been taught more by my own pony than you could ever learn by riding a RS horse/pony around a school or on a led hack.  I have moved from a tap-a-long donkey to a willing little welshy who relays on me to show the way and show him that puddles, plastic bags, burger vans, noisy metal, chain saws and horse walkers are okay really so he can trust me and we can have some fun and adventures together.  He has made me up my game and become the confident rider i used to be.


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## Shantara (21 February 2012)

Dovorian said:



			OP,

Umm, your local hunt is killing foxes????

I hope not!
		
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Goodness knows, I don't go on them and I stay out of it.


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## Paris1 (21 February 2012)

You might say that owners of one or two horses don't have a lot of experience compared to professionals at most levels in the horsey world.


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## charlie76 (21 February 2012)

Its not about being a riding school rider or a horse owner,  its about the willingness to learn and develop knowledge.  Many riding school clients are willing to do this in the same way many horse owners are not and vice versa


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## RainbowDash (22 February 2012)

charlie76 said:



			Its not about being a riding school rider or a horse owner,  its about the willingness to learn and develop knowledge.  Many riding school clients are willing to do this in the same way many horse owners are not and vice versa
		
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Damn - where's the 'like' button...


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## Ladydragon (22 February 2012)

Annielusian said:



			And our lessons consist of:
Either jumping in the school, which often tests us and is never easy
XC jumping out in the fields
*A hack, which is honestly more like a hunt sometimes!*
Or a lesson in the school which tests our knowledge (such as, do we know how to trot up correctly, can we learn to do a new dressage move, can we name a body part of a horse each time we rise in trot etc etc..)
Or even something else!


Sorry for the mini rant! 

Have you ever been to a riding school which has 'broken the mold' in a good way? 

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Eeek...  Remind me NOT to take a lesson at that school...


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## hudsonw (22 February 2012)

My experience of a riding school was turn up on a Sat morning to an already tacked up horse, get on and spend 10 mins getting the stirrups to the correct length after the last rider and then stand there whilst everyone else gets on/stirrups right. All this whilst being watched by the 10 girls that helped out at the yard at weekends b1tching about whoever was riding their favorite pony/horse!!
10 mins of "warming up" a few laps of trot, canter to the back of the ride then the same on the other rein and then cooling down which consisted of letting the horse walk with no rein contact. Dismounting and leading back to the stable to untack.
Pay £25 and then go home!

Lets just say i only did this once.

I'm not saying all riding schools are like this and I'm sure there are some very good ones out there but it might be why riding schools get a bad rep?


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## Shantara (22 February 2012)

hudsonw said:



			My experience of a riding school was turn up on a Sat morning to an already tacked up horse, get on and spend 10 mins getting the stirrups to the correct length after the last rider and then stand there whilst everyone else gets on/stirrups right. All this whilst being watched by the 10 girls that helped out at the yard at weekends b1tching about whoever was riding their favorite pony/horse!!
10 mins of "warming up" a few laps of trot, canter to the back of the ride then the same on the other rein and then cooling down which consisted of letting the horse walk with no rein contact. Dismounting and leading back to the stable to untack.
Pay £25 and then go home!

Lets just say i only did this once.

I'm not saying all riding schools are like this and I'm sure there are some very good ones out there but it might be why riding schools get a bad rep?
		
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That's exactly my experience! I can't stand it. 


LadyDragon: I don't see why everyone has taken that the wrong way. What I mean by that is (if everyone is experienced enough) we have a gallop across fields (that we're allowed in), jump logs and a few small ditches that we have around and generally give the horses a darn good work out. If we have beginners with us, none of that happens. We go by the least experienced person in the group.


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## Honey08 (22 February 2012)

badgerdog said:



			I work with children at a riding school and the biggest difference I see between them and children who have their own ponies is that the RS kids are technically much better than the one's who have their own ponies.  Kids who have their own ponies are more 'natural' riders and are much more confident but the ones at the RS have better positions and know more about aids, transitions etc because they have more lessons and are constantly being corrected.  It depends on the riding school of course, we are lucky to have good instructors.  Most of the kids I know who have their own ponies haven't been to riding schools and although have lessons, don't have them very frequently.
The kids at our riding school have been placed at dressage competitions but wouldn't dare hunt, whereas my friends children are frustrated by dressage as they aren't very good at it but were happily hunting when they were 6 and 7 years old!
		
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I'd agree with this.


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## Kat (22 February 2012)

hudsonw said:



			My experience of a riding school was turn up on a Sat morning to an already tacked up horse, get on and spend 10 mins getting the stirrups to the correct length after the last rider and then stand there whilst everyone else gets on/stirrups right. All this whilst being watched by the 10 girls that helped out at the yard at weekends b1tching about whoever was riding their favorite pony/horse!!
10 mins of "warming up" a few laps of trot, canter to the back of the ride then the same on the other rein and then cooling down which consisted of letting the horse walk with no rein contact. Dismounting and leading back to the stable to untack.
Pay £25 and then go home!

Lets just say i only did this once.

I'm not saying all riding schools are like this and I'm sure there are some very good ones out there but it might be why riding schools get a bad rep?
		
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I'm sorry I can't let that go. That is absolutely not how a riding school lesson should be, there are schools out there who offer so much more. At the BHS approved one I rode at regularly until a year ago normal flat lesson for me would be: 

Turn up, check list to see what horse you are riding. Personal favourites and personal requirements were taken into account but you were expected to ride a variety. Unless you are early and wanted to tack up yourself (which you could do if you wanted) the horse would be tacked up and waiting in its stable, you would simply need to remove rug, untwist reins, tighten girth and check your tack. You would then lead your own horse to the indoor or outdoor school.  

The instructor would be waiting in the school and would offer and assistance and/or supervision with mounting required. General rule was that client's shouldn't mount unsupervised (for safety/insurance reasons) and shouldn't mount from the ground (for the sake of the horse's backs). Once on you sorted girths, stirrups etc yourself in your own time and got on with warming your horse up in open order. 

Generally speaking after 10 minutes or so warming up the instructor would either pull the whole group in for a chat or would pull people in one at a time to discuss their horse, its way of going and their plan for the lesson. Riders would then continue to work in open order on whatever they had discussed with the instructor. Feedback, comments and additional advice would follow as and when required. Sometimes the instructor would spend five or ten minutes with an individual working on something specific, sometimes you'd work for 10 minutes then pop back for another discussion, sometimes you'd be left very much to your own devices. 

Approximately 15 minutes before the end we would be warned to start winding things down ready for cool down. When we started cooling the horses down properly, and were back to walk on a long rein we would start discussing how things had gone, what we had learned, what the next step would be etc. 

Discussions would include what you'd do if the horse wasn't a riding school horse, so groundwork, lunging, turning away, hacking, hunting etc. It would also include things like tack and competitive aims, how the horse's conformation affects its way of going etc etc etc. 

Most of the people in our group competed and/or were doing exams so had their own specific targets to aim for too. 

From time to time we might work on something specific as a group or we might be sent off to practice a dressage test/show piece and perform it at the end. 

Where appropriate clients might ride the horse in different tack, for example to be dressage legal, or to practice in a double before a show, or just to get the best out of the horse (so a competent rider might be allowed to wear spurs or ride in tack that wouldn't be suitable for all riding school clients eg double bridle or a training aid). 

After the lesson we would get off, lead our horses out and then either put them away, untack and rug up or turn out. Before going to pay less than £25 for a lesson with a BHSI.


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## MoodleCob (22 February 2012)

My experience was pretty similar to *hudsonw's*. When I used to go to the riding school I would turn up about 20 mins or so early and asked to be able to tack up etc my self which I got to do once (despite being looked at as if I had just grown two heads). After that time the horse was already tacked up and ready to go when I got there, I also offered (in the summer) to help hose down and on other occasions groom, take tack off, help in general but didn't get to. I often wonder why, because to get the whole experience is more beneficial to the rider. I suppose with the health and safety police and compensation culture we have it is a minefield as to what you can be allowed to do at a riding school nowadays. Personally I would prefer (and I'm sure most riding instructors would too) if I got there and had to get the horse ready to ride myself, have my lesson and then un tack, put horse back in stable or field etc. As a kid I had to muck out, feed, groom, look after the goats! and help lead the little ones on rides at a trail riding centre and I learnt so much more. It's a shame you can't seem to do that now


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## Karran (22 February 2012)

I'm 28, and have ridden since the age of 6, but only once weekly in an RS environment. Mainly cos my parents didnt have the money, partly because I was based in London, so limited turnout/hacking/whatever.

However I was a complete stable brat and I was welcomed at weekends/holidays to come groom, learn how to tack up, muck out, sweep, whatever was needed. I do think its unfair to tarnish all RS's with the same brush. At my first RS, I did basic pony club, and progressive riding tests and through my school, I competed in some Prelim unaffliated dressage in the London Schools Competition. I (without sounding up myself) won this three years in a row (with high 80+) scores, beating children from private schools, with their own ponies. Eventually I was banned as they changed the rules, so that only private schools could enter. (putting me off competing altogether) 

I hate the way on here, people sometimes describe RS riders as complete novices. Yes I realise I could learn more on my own horse, and thats something I intend to get once I return to England. But I don't consider myself a complete novice (waits to get shot down.)

I can do basic stable care and am happy to ask for help if needed. I learnt how to leg yield, turn on forehands, flying changes etc (never jumped though due to lack of facilities). At one school, I rode some horses that had been rescue cases, were spooky, nappy, had been beaten etc. One was an ex-racing arab that needed to be completely reschooled.
If it was felt I was being to yanky with the reins, they would be taken off and put on the noseband etc. 

Now in Spain, I ride an elderly mare once a week for its owner, he speaks no English, my Spanish is limited. So I trundle about in a school but we do all the things mentioned above. My main focus at the minute is correct my position errors. (I've always suffered from carrying my hands too low and riding with too-short stirrups.) Then perhaps we'll work on doing something else so we don't get too bored. (not sure what though - does that make me one of those RS people who are lost without an instructor?)

I realise some RS are worse than others but I don't feel that my experiences have been of bad ones. I've learnt a lot, I'm still learning. 
 Perhaps the above sums me up as a novice rider and I prove the RS critics right, and I'm expecting to get shot down for saying this. But only feel of myself that I'm a novice around horses on here sometimes. I live in envy of the man who rode with me the other week doing a beautiful passage on his PRE which I doubt my current gallant steed is capable of, but one day I will be doing that, and I'll have the chance to learn to jump.

Rant over. I made no sense whatsoever.


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## Wizzkid (22 February 2012)

I&#8217;ve always seen it as a bit of a cheap shot to judge someone just because they have learnt to ride at a riding school.

Let&#8217;s not knock people for not being in a position to buy their own horse!


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## Doogal (22 February 2012)

rhino said:



			I think one of the main factors is the inability of a lot of rs riders to plan and carry out successful schooling/jumping sessions without being 'taught'...

I don't think this is a skill you can learn easily when you only ride once a week and the horse is ridden by a variety of different riders. You don't get the level of 'feel' as when you have your own horse and ride every day 

Click to expand...

I do think there is a lot of generalisations going on. I rode at riding schools once a week for 21 years as I couldnt afford my own horse. As I was a volunteer at my local riding school I was able to tack up, muck out, groom etc from a very young age and had a pretty comprehensive knowledge of wound care, feeding, fitness programmes etc - I just never had a horse to put all my theory into action! I definitely dont have the competition experience though and I have never been hunting (but it doesnt interest me anyway)

Now I have my own I am SO glad I spent all that time on the basics of schooling and applying them to different horses. I am also glad I had somone constantly correcting my position, seat and application of the aids as most things, from sitting a buck or riding a horse through a spook or a correct transition are easier when you are sitting correctly.

Riding schools definitely vary in quality so you have to be prepared to move on as some have you doing whatever other people are doing because it is easier for them.  My last riding school had the more experienced lessons working in open order. We'd warm our horses up individually for 10 minutes and the RI would ask us what we felt (stiffness to one side, rushing transitions, coming above bit, coming behind the bit, sluggish to leg etc and asked us to suggest a plan for how we could improve it's way of going - in 50 minutes - with RI commenting on anything she could help with along the way.

I loved it, although it was a bit annoying knowing that the improvements would be undone by the time you rode the horse again 6 weeks later, which is why I dont think i learned anything new in the latter years and wanted my own horse - never got past leg yielding,  shoulder in and direct transitions!

However having bought a schooling project as my 1st horse, I feel I have been well equipped to teach him everything I know in preparation for moving up to the next level. I would also say that because I am so tuned into the feel of my own horse now, I no longer feel as confident I can get a tune out of anything else as I am too used to having my mind read - I am definitely a lazier rider now I an owner!


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## rhino (22 February 2012)

Again Doogal, sounds like you went to a _good_ riding school, the kind that Marmalade seems to run. There are _a lot_ of not so good, and downright dangerous riding schools about though, which do not prepare people for horse ownership the same way.. And as a lot of people learn as children, perhaps with non horsey parents, they don't always know enough to be able to distinguish between the different riding schools.


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## nixxyz (22 February 2012)

hudsonw said:



			My experience of a riding school was turn up on a Sat morning to an already tacked up horse, get on and spend 10 mins getting the stirrups to the correct length after the last rider and then stand there whilst everyone else gets on/stirrups right. All this whilst being watched by the 10 girls that helped out at the yard at weekends b1tching about whoever was riding their favorite pony/horse!!
10 mins of "warming up" a few laps of trot, canter to the back of the ride then the same on the other rein and then cooling down which consisted of letting the horse walk with no rein contact. Dismounting and leading back to the stable to untack.
Pay £25 and then go home!

Lets just say i only did this once.

I'm not saying all riding schools are like this and I'm sure there are some very good ones out there but it might be why riding schools get a bad rep?[/QUOTE

After having to give up my horses for financial reasons, a friend asked if i wanted to come with her to try a local RS with her, she has horses too al be it retired TB's so we both know the ropes and when we arrived at said RS we weren't allowed to leave the tack room/ reception without a member of staff, we weren't allowed to speak to the horses who were stabled basically we were helped to mount, weren't allowed to do our own stirrups or girth and told to go in a specific order!! i really didn't enjoy myself and need i say will not be back there,
in contrast to this where i learned to ride, you had to be able to manage the horses from the ground first before they let you ride, you paid a couple of £ and spent the day learning how to muck out, groom, tack up, bring in, do rugs feed etc, i thought this was brilliant and would spend my weekends helping out until i was good enough to start riding. sadly this place shut down many years ago and i'm yet to find another the same  
i think there's a huge difference from just being able to ride and being ready for your own horse. The establishment where you start out really is the most important first step IMO.
		
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## Doogal (22 February 2012)

It's not just instructors though, I wonder if the average RS pony/horse is a lot different compared to 20 years ago.

Looking back, a lot of the ponies I rode as a child could be pretty nappy and forward there was actually a lot of falling off. There were some steadier/lazier horses but they were ALL capable of work properly once they knew you meant it and there were definitely a few strong/flighty ones reserved for the more experienced riders. 

In comparison, as an adult RS rider I didn't felt overhorsed or fall off once in 10 years - whilst I'd like to think this was down to my superior horsemanship skills, I seriously doubt it was )

I left 1 RS with a very good reputation because they kept giving me a horse that it would have been less effort to carry round on my shoulders than ride in my lessons - It was more like a gym work out.

I dont think it is fair to expect people to pay £25 to sit on a horse they'd  have to beat up to get a passable working trot, and whilst he would have been great for RDA work, I doubt if anyone could actually learn anything about riding on him.

Perhaps there is just too much pressure on RS these days to provide a safe environment and safe horses and eliminate all possible risk - which is going to affect the kind of riders it produces.


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## JFTDWS (22 February 2012)

nixxyz said:



			when we arrived at said RS we weren't allowed to leave the tack room/ reception without a member of staff, we weren't allowed to speak to the horses who were stabled basically we were helped to mount
		
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Interestingly I went to a very nice, smart London RS last summer for a lesson (basically perving over my friend's instructor, of whom she was rather fond ) and I had the opposite.  Although they'd been informed I could ride, they didn't know me at all - and still sent me off to tack up!  I did actually find someone as I had no idea where the mare's tack was or anything   They were generally very "up" on H&S, I think, I get the impression this was a misunderstanding...  FWIW, my friend's instructor was also great - very classically minded, we had a nice chat about schools of classical equitation whilst I worked the mare in open order with my friend, and the whole experience was much more similar to that which Kat describes.  Sadly, he wasn't as fit as my friend had led to me to believe, but you can't have everything.  He was something of an exception though - many of the instructors seemed to spend more time chatting than actually teaching the more experienced clients (this I gather from my friend, since I have no first hand experience of the other instructors).

I learnt to ride at an RS about 15 years ago.  They were less responsible, imo - there were a number of accidents on the yard and in lessons / hacks while I was there, some due to inappropriate horses (mostly green-broken of the local traveller), some due to stupidity.  I used to work there and I recall leading ponies in lessons from the noseband was considered "normal" under some instructors.  I also remember almost passing out after spending 15 minutes leading a 14,2 in trot over jumps   It was all very trivial stuff, mostly, and at least I used to get hands on experience - and I got my cob from there - but I think a little more regard for H&S isn't a bad thing.

That said, I've done far stupider things on my own horses   I think it's rather a shame that beneficial "risks" - e.g. riding bareback - maybe not be taken at a _good _RS, to the detriment of the rider's education.


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## Puzzles (22 February 2012)

hudsonw said:



			My experience of a riding school was turn up on a Sat morning to an already tacked up horse, get on and spend 10 mins getting the stirrups to the correct length after the last rider and then stand there whilst everyone else gets on/stirrups right. All this whilst being watched by the 10 girls that helped out at the yard at weekends b1tching about whoever was riding their favorite pony/horse!!
10 mins of "warming up" a few laps of trot, canter to the back of the ride then the same on the other rein and then cooling down which consisted of letting the horse walk with no rein contact. Dismounting and leading back to the stable to untack.
Pay £25 and then go home!

Lets just say i only did this once.

I'm not saying all riding schools are like this and I'm sure there are some very good ones out there but it might be why riding schools get a bad rep?
		
Click to expand...

This EXACTLY!

Only I did it for 2-3 years as none of the riding schools I went to really taught me much, either - not because the instructors weren't qualified, but because they spend the whole time barking at us for miniscule things rather than actually teaching us how to do things. All of my experience has come from applying what I know hands-on - almost everything that I know is completely self-taught, because from an early age I realised that if I wanted to learn something and do it well then I had to do it myself. When first taught to ride it was literally a case of if you wanted to go faster then kick, and if you want to stop or turn then pull the reins. My twin sister learned this way with me, but now if ever I mention the use of the seat, outside rein or the use of weight and leg in canter, she thinks I'm making it up! I found it incredibly frustrating and have wasted hundreds of pounds on perfectly qualified, inadequate riding instructors.
Having worked at and observed riding schools and equestrian centres for years, most people there ride because they love it and have no other option - not because they're learning anything new. Ok, so it's all experience, but when one is only riding once a week (or every 2 weeks for me as I couldn't afford it) it is very difficult to improve or apply anything one has learned.
Naturally, I would have thpought that when one first starts learning to ride, the lessons are focused around them and as they progress and can independently monitor their own riding, the lessons become more focused on how to improve the horse's way of going (simultaneously improving the rider).
Never again. When I get lessons, it will be from a more knowledgeable and experienced friend or a professional trainer. Hence why I moved on to sharing, as I just was getting nothing out of it - I wasn't only not learning but ended up arguing in every lesson with my last instructor because we just didn't sare the same methods or principles of training.
This is quite a sore subject for me as I've just spend so much time and money and really dented my confidence trying to get somewhere with my riding...but that's all well in the past now, thank goodness! Grr...


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## Kat (22 February 2012)

Perhaps, if we can all agree that there are some good riding schools out there, and that they can teach you to ride and care for horses to an extent that you aren't a complete bumbling idiot/danger to yourself and all around, then maybe as responsible horse people we should all make it our business to find out where they are so that we can direct any new/novice riders in their direction. 

It is tough for riding schools to be profitable in this day and age, if they are doing a good job then help them out by sending potential clients to them rather than rubbishing all riding schools and lumping them all in with the awful ones. 

If you don't know where your nearest good riding school is have a look on the BHS website, and go along for a look. If you like what you see you might even benefit from a lesson on a schoolmaster or a lunge lesson yourself!


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## nixxyz (22 February 2012)

JFTD said:



			Interestingly I went to a very nice, smart London RS last summer for a lesson (basically perving over my friend's instructor, of whom she was rather fond ) and I had the opposite.  Although they'd been informed I could ride, they didn't know me at all - and still sent me off to tack up!  I did actually find someone as I had no idea where the mare's tack was or anything   They were generally very "up" on H&S, I think, I get the impression this was a misunderstanding...  FWIW, my friend's instructor was also great - very classically minded, we had a nice chat about schools of classical equitation whilst I worked the mare in open order with my friend, and the whole experience was much more similar to that which Kat describes.  Sadly, he wasn't as fit as my friend had led to me to believe, but you can't have everything.  He was something of an exception though - many of the instructors seemed to spend more time chatting than actually teaching the more experienced clients (this I gather from my friend, since I have no first hand experience of the other instructors).

I learnt to ride at an RS about 15 years ago.  They were less responsible, imo - there were a number of accidents on the yard and in lessons / hacks while I was there, some due to inappropriate horses (mostly green-broken of the local traveller), some due to stupidity.  I used to work there and I recall leading ponies in lessons from the noseband was considered "normal" under some instructors.  I also remember almost passing out after spending 15 minutes leading a 14,2 in trot over jumps   It was all very trivial stuff, mostly, and at least I used to get hands on experience - and I got my cob from there - but I think a little more regard for H&S isn't a bad thing.

That said, I've done far stupider things on my own horses   I think it's rather a shame that beneficial "risks" - e.g. riding bareback - maybe not be taken at a _good _RS, to the detriment of the rider's education.
		
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Unfortunatly it wasn't a miss understanding they knew we had horses of our own and could ride before we turned up ( was all discussed in great detail on the phone) . They had numerous signs up not to approach the horses or interact with them, we were also told not to stand and watch any on going lessons in the arena  . Basically you went there to ride and that was it. They have some cracking horses tho and the place was imaculate(sp) 
i definatly agree there are some good and bad, i guess its all trial and error as to which suits the person.


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## Mlini (22 February 2012)

I learnt to ride at a riding school, or several!!, as I come from a non-horsey family. I started at 6years old and had weekly lessons until I was about 13 when I started loaning (under supervision of YO) at a livery yard. 

To be honest all I learnt was the basics. Walk, trot, canter, jump. We were never taught how to work the horses/ponies correctly. It was just a case of walking large and trotting/cantering to the back one-by-one. When I got there the ponies would have just finished the previous lesson and we would be sent to the most 'suitable' pony for our exp/height/weight. There was no stable management side of things. Just simply riding. No theory behind the riding. Just an instructor shouting up-down-up-down as you trotted around the edge! 

Maybe riding schools have changed in the past few years?? I'm only 21 so this wasn't an age ago!


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## Katie (22 February 2012)

i think i have learnt more about problems while riding (refusing, bolting, rushing etc) while riding at various riding schools than loaning a schoolmaster pony for 2 years.  if i had just bought my horse after riding the schoolmaster i would not know what to do at all!  i have also ridden a lot of differant types of horse from lazy to spooky which has also helped me with my horse.  with the loan i did learn a lot but a lot about how the horse had to be costantly on an outline which i don't do on my own!!


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## rhino (22 February 2012)

My riding school experiences - and we're not talking _that_ long ago as I didn't ride as a child (family were totally non horsey). Was allowed to canter in my first lesson, jumped in my 2nd , was on a just backed 3 year old within a couple of months and was allowed to ride in field/out hacking unsupervised in about 6 months. H&S? What H&S?

There were good points though, a real mix of horses and ponies, NONE of them easy (or at least a couple were but I never got to ride them  ). Plenty of riding without stirrups, bareback, jumping without reins etc. 

It worked for me, but I think put many others off. It also meant when I got ginger horse I had an awful lot of learning to do; luckily I am an avid reader and watch lessons/competitions whenever I can to pick things up


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## nillynoo (22 February 2012)

I was lucky in that I found a wonderful riding school at a young age, where I stayed for the next 7 years till university. There was a wide mix of horses - all with a bit of spirit and different ways of going, and we were taught to be independently minded, thinking riders, as opposed to 'follow the leader' riders who couldn't survive outside a school. Unfortunately, I know this isn't the case for many, but my riding school education allowed me to have my own horse and ride her competently, before I continued to 'learn' as a horse owner...I still had lessons on other horses when I had her too...all too quickly you can end up being only able to ride your own horse!


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