# Laminitis in winter??



## ryanpeter691 (9 January 2010)

Can this actually happen?? 
A person at my yard has an arab who aparantly has laminitis can this happen in winter??


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## FinkleyGladiator (9 January 2010)

Yeah, eating frosted grass can cause it, also feeding too much cerial.
A horse I knew got it in January once...the vet thought it was brought on by a form of hypothermia in the feet  
	
	
		
		
	


	




We have to be careful with our pony all year round as he is laminitis prone.
Hope this answers your question.


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## mrdarcy (9 January 2010)

[ QUOTE ]
the vet thought it was brought on by a form of hypothermia in the feet  
	
	
		
		
	


	






[/ QUOTE ]

Seriously? Had he been drinking?  
	
	
		
		
	


	




 Wonder how he'd explain the wild mustangs in Nevada where it often gets down to -40 in the winter. Laminitis is unheard of in the wild! Vets eh? And they wonder why we don't always take them seriously 
	
	
		
		
	


	





But back to the original question - laminitis can happen at any time during the year... frosted grass has higher fructan levels which can be enough to tip a horse over into a full blown lami attack. Also this time of year people can pump more cereals/molasses enriched mixes into their horses thinking it'll stop them losing weight in the colder weather - same result... lami


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## Blaise (10 January 2010)

Severe/prolonged stress can bring on laminitis too. It's less common in winter but certainly still something to watch out for.


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## Shilasdair (10 January 2010)

Last horse I managed that had winter laminitis turned out to have Cushings.
S


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## kizzywiz (10 January 2010)

I agree, laminitis in cushings horses is more common in the winter.


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## AngieandBen (11 January 2010)

Unfortunately yes, my little shettie has it atm, even though he was in from 7am until 4pm and only fed old hay and Lucie Stalks.

Been free of it for eight years, so I'm gutted as all mine live on a track system which has so far worked brilliantly.

I'm having him tested for Cuhings, although I don't really know of other symptoms. He's 11 btw.

kizzywiz can you tell me why its more common in winter? very interesting!


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## splash30 (11 January 2010)

We have just had a welsh come down with lami 2 weeks ago just as the first snow came, we think its due to the cold/ice/snow so yes you can get lami in the winter


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## _HP_ (11 January 2010)

[ QUOTE ]
I agree, laminitis in cushings horses is more common in the winter. 

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think its more common in winter for cushings ponies...just that if a horse/pony gets winter lami then it is perhaps more likely that it has Cushings and therefore worth getting tested...if you get what I mean


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## ryanpeter691 (11 January 2010)

So is it eating the cold frosty grass that causes it or standing on it?


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## pottamus (11 January 2010)

It can be both...but deffinately eating frosty grass as the sugards are sent sky high due to the cold conditions. When we had the first big freeze before Christmas my laminitic got sore feet for a couple of days and I can only put that down to the hard ground conditions as he had no access to grass at all.


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## suejs001 (25 November 2010)

Mr Darcy, 
Having a horse who contracted laminitis from Snow I can assure you the problem is very real and the vets are not lying!! The cold affects the blood supply to the feet in those horses (such as Arabs like I have) who are suseptible.  I would suggest that wild mustangs feet have evolved to deal with the snow and they are unshod! The problem occurs when the snow balls in the feet and 'freezes' the feet causing the blood vessles in the feet to contract and effectively die off this then causes the lamini to fail and start seperating from the pedal bone as the blood supply is affected.  This can be very rapid and is just as much a vet emergency as laminitis from too much cereal / grass / sugars ie fructans from frosty grass.  However the time of this is critical as the blood vessles have to repair before the blood can resume a function back in the hoof by this time the damage can be done.  In one day my horse had his pedal bone sink 4mm and rotate 5 degrees. 

The vets and researchers do know what they are talking about and from bitter experience I know this and I would hate someone else to think this is a phalacy when it isn't.  It is a very serious issue. 

Thanks
Sue


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## xxRachelxx (25 November 2010)

As already said it is very eays to get laminitis now. After frost the grass has higher levels of fructan which is the bad thing that causes lami. Best to not turn out when ground is frosty. 
Also as already said might be worth testing for cushings. Had the farrier out this morn who had just been to do a horse with lami due to cushings.


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## suejs001 (25 November 2010)

Standing in Frosty grass is not like standing in Snow!  frosty grass is an issue as the fructans in the grass are frozen at a very high level ... so frosty grass is also an issue, but this does not effect the blood supply to the feet like a horse standing in snow for hours on end.  The snow compacts in the feet and freezes them essentially.  But what ever, do not be fooled Winter in my opinion is just as difficult for managing a laminitic as spring / summer / autumn is.   

There is a lot of research being done.


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## suejs001 (25 November 2010)

Oh and by the way Laminitis and Winter are not cushings related!  My horse was 6!!! It could be that a horse is more insulin resistent or has Equine metabolic syndrome that can be a cause of lami, but any horse who has sensitive feet can get laminitis from snow freezing the feet. 

Please unless you have direct experience on this matter or you are a vet please don't tell anyone this is not an issue.  It is.


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## Honey08 (25 November 2010)

I agree with Sue's post.

Our pony had laminitus last winter.  It was due to the haylage being too rich that year.  The pony had been with us for 4yrs, and not had a sniff of it before. It had been out on frosty ground and snow many times in the past...


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## peanut (25 November 2010)

suejs001 said:



			but any horse who has sensitive feet can get laminitis from snow freezing the feet.
		
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I didn't know that.  

I'm particularly careful with frosty grass but have always let me horse stand out in snow.

I usually oil the bottom of my horse's feet in snow to prevent impaction.  Would that have helped?


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## suejs001 (25 November 2010)

Causes of laminitis please see Frosty Grass and Freezing of the feet
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Carbohydrate overload
If a horse is given grain in excess or eats grass that is under stress and has accumulated excess non-structural carbohydrate (NSC, i.e. sugars, starch or fructan), it may be unable to digest all of the carbohydrate in the foregut. The excess then moves on to the hindgut and ferments in the cecum. The presence of this fermenting carbohydrate in the cecum causes proliferation of lactic acid bacteria and an increase in acidity. This process kills beneficial bacteria, which ferment fiber. The endotoxins and exotoxins may then be absorbed into the bloodstream, due to 'leaky gut syndrome', caused by irritation of the gut lining by increased acidity. The endotoxaemia results in impaired circulation, particularly in the feet. This results in laminitis.

Insulin resistance
Laminitis can also be caused by insulin resistance in the horse. Insulin resistant horses tend to become obese very easily and, even when starved down, may have abnormal fat deposits in the neck, shoulders, loin, above the eyes and around the tail head, even when the rest of the body appears to be in normal condition. The mechanism by which laminitis associated with insulin resistance occurs is not understood but may be triggered by sugar and starch in the diet of susceptible individuals. Ponies and breeds that evolved in relatively harsh environments, with only sparse grass, tend to be more insulin resistant, possibly as a survival mechanism. Insulin resistant animals may become laminitic from only very small amounts of grain or 'high sugar' grass. Slow adaptation to pasture is not effective, as it is with laminitis caused by microbial population upsets. Insulin resistant horses with laminitis should be removed from all green grass and be fed only hay that is tested for Non Structual Carbohydrates (sugar, starch and fructan) and found to be below 11% NSC on a dry matter basis. Soaking hay underwater may remove excess carbohydrates and should be part of a first-aid treatment for any horse with laminitis associated with obesity or abnormal fat deposits. This can have the effect of depleting the hay of soluble minerals and vitamins, however, so care with dietary balance is important.

Nitrogen compound overload
Herbivores are equipped to deal with a normal level of potentially-toxic non-protein nitrogen (NPN) compounds in their forage. If, for any reason, there is rapid upward fluctuation in levels of these compounds, for instance in lush spring growth on artificially-fertilized lowland pasture, the natural metabolic processes can become overloaded, resulting in liver disturbance and toxic imbalance. For this reason, many avoid using artificial nitrogen fertilizer on horse pasture. If clover is allowed to dominate the pasture, this may also allow excess nitrogen to accumulate in forage, under stressful conditions such as frost or drought. Many weeds eaten by horses are nitrate accumulators. Direct ingestion of nitrate fertiliser material can also trigger laminitis, via a similar mechanism.

Hard ground
Whenever possible, avoid working horses on hard ground. This includes concrete or gravel roads. An indoor or outdoor arena should be periodically dragged with a rake, to loosen the soil and to prevent it from hardening. Hard surfaces increase the concussion upon the horse's feet. The greater and more prolonged the concussion, the more likely it is that the horse will contract laminitis.

Lush pastures
When releasing horses back into a pasture, after being kept inside (typically during the transition from winter stabling to spring outdoor keeping), it is important to re-introduce them gradually. Feed horses before turning them out and limit the amount of time outside (45 minutes to an hour at first, gradually increasing the amount of time) and decrease the amount fed to them beforehand, as the season progresses. If a horse consumes too much lush pasture, after a diet of dry hay, the excess carbohydrate of grass can be a shock to its digestive system. If the horse is fed beforehand, it will not eat as much fresh grass when turned out and will be less likely to founder. It is also true that ponies are much more susceptible to this form of laminitis than are larger horses.

***Frosted grass****
Some cases of laminitis have occurred after ingestion of frosted grass. The exact mechanism for this has not been explained but sudden imbalance of the normal bowel flora can be surmised, leading to endotoxin production.

***Freezing or overheating of the feet****
Cases of laminitis have been observed following an equine standing in extreme conditions of cold, especially if there is a depth of snow. Laminitis has also followed prolonged heating from incorrectly-applied hot-shoeing. In either case, it is possible to understand how the circulation of the feet may become adversely affected.

Cold exposure however has been shown to have a protective effect when horses are experimentally exposed to CHO overload. Feet placed in ice slurries were less likely to experience laminitis than 'un-iced' feet.

Untreated infections
Infections, particularly where caused by bacteria, can cause release of endotoxins into the blood stream, which may trigger laminitis. A retained placenta in a mare (see below) is a notorious cause of laminitis and founder.

Colic
Laminitis can sometimes develop after a serious case of colic, due to the release of endotoxins into the blood stream.

Lameness
Lameness causes a horse to favor the injured leg, resulting in uneven weight distribution. This results in more stress on the healthy legs and can result in laminitis.

Cushings disease
Cushings disease is common in older horses and ponies and causes an increased predisposition to laminitis.

Peripheral Cushings disease
Peripheral Cushings disease is an area of much new research and is increasingly believed to have a major role in laminitis. It involves many factors such as cortisone metabolism and insulin resistance. It has some similarities to type II diabetes in humans (see also 'insulin resistance, described above).

Retained placenta
It is common practice, in horse-breeding establishments, to check by careful inspection that the entire placenta has been passed, after the birth of a foal. It is known that mares that retain the afterbirth can founder, whether through toxicity or bacterial fever or both.

Drug reactions
Anecdotally there have been reports of laminitis following the administration of drugs, especially in the case of corticosteroids. The reaction however may be an expression of idiosyncrasy in a particular patient as many horses receive high dose glucocorticoid into their joints without showing any evidence of clinical laminitis. No evidence exists to show the mechanism by which glucocorticoids trigger laminitis in the horse.

Exposure to agro-chemicals
Even horses not considered to be susceptible to laminitis can become laminitic when exposed to certain agro-chemicals. The most commonly-experienced examples are herbicide and artificial nitrate fertilizer.


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## Honey08 (25 November 2010)

The above posts just indicate that there are lots of reasons why a horse/pony can get laminitus.  You just have to find out why in that particular case, and then hopefully its curable and preventable...


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## peanut (25 November 2010)

I so hate laminitis


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## suejs001 (26 November 2010)

Hi, 
If your horse has sensitive feet and is prone then the Snow is as much a risk as any of the other factors.  In fact IMO it is worse, you can feed your horse hay in the field which will prevent them eating frosty grass with high fructan levels, but with the Snow the only way to avoid it is to keep your horse in!  Oiling there feet does not stop the cold getting in to the feet and freezing them.

Sam will never go out in the snow ever again, but was I / he very unlucky?  Yes, frozen feet including the snow compacting in his feet for hours and this causing concussion and as well as eating frozen grass ... there was nothing down for him.  I was very lucky to keep Sam .  This is a very real danager and not one to be laughed about


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## NOISYGIRL (1 December 2010)

ryanpeter691 said:



			Can this actually happen?? 
A person at my yard has an arab who aparantly has laminitis can this happen in winter??
		
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Yes it can, which is why my horse rarely has his muzzle removed when he is turned out.  They can get it when there has been frost on the grass, it stores the sugar


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## suejs001 (1 December 2010)

I hate laminitis too!!!  I walked Sam around the menage twice last night and in the two laps the snow had compacted in his feet ... I have to be very careful, but could you imagine that in their feet all day walking on it not only is the snow rock hard but you cannot get the snow out (especially now he is in heart bars and filler)  last year he was walking on blocks of ice as the snow was in such a ball and I couldn't get it out and this was just one day   ok he has araby feet which are more upright but Sam also has a thin hoof wall, I think he has very sensitive feet, but my point is that you can never be too careful with anything ... I knew about frosty grass in January / Feb when the temp rises to +5 but it has been freezing over night, but I did not know about snow basically freezing the feet and causing something so sever.  

Anyway vet advise was to keep him in Frosty days and snowy days and if I walk him at all I have to get the snow out of his feet as soon as it starts to ball up.  Apparently if he gets another attack that would be it.


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## Luci07 (2 December 2010)

Thanks Sue - I knew about the possibility of laminitis with frost and keep an eye on my mare as she the beginnings of cushings. I did not know about certain horses having possible problems with their feet effectively freezing - but from your post it would look to be essentially a man made issue in that a barefoot would not have the same problem?

Very glad I didn't know this when my previous horse lived out!


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## AndySpooner (6 December 2010)

suejs001 said:



			Causes of laminitis please see Frosty Grass and Freezing of the feet
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Carbohydrate overload
If a horse is given grain in excess or eats grass that is under stress and has accumulated excess non-structural carbohydrate (NSC, i.e. sugars, starch or fructan), it may be unable to digest all of the carbohydrate in the foregut. The excess then moves on to the hindgut and ferments in the cecum. The presence of this fermenting carbohydrate in the cecum causes proliferation of lactic acid bacteria and an increase in acidity. This process kills beneficial bacteria, which ferment fiber. The endotoxins and exotoxins may then be absorbed into the bloodstream, due to 'leaky gut syndrome', caused by irritation of the gut lining by increased acidity. The endotoxaemia results in impaired circulation, particularly in the feet. This results in laminitis.

Insulin resistance
Laminitis can also be caused by insulin resistance in the horse. Insulin resistant horses tend to become obese very easily and, even when starved down, may have abnormal fat deposits in the neck, shoulders, loin, above the eyes and around the tail head, even when the rest of the body appears to be in normal condition. The mechanism by which laminitis associated with insulin resistance occurs is not understood but may be triggered by sugar and starch in the diet of susceptible individuals. Ponies and breeds that evolved in relatively harsh environments, with only sparse grass, tend to be more insulin resistant, possibly as a survival mechanism. Insulin resistant animals may become laminitic from only very small amounts of grain or 'high sugar' grass. Slow adaptation to pasture is not effective, as it is with laminitis caused by microbial population upsets. Insulin resistant horses with laminitis should be removed from all green grass and be fed only hay that is tested for Non Structual Carbohydrates (sugar, starch and fructan) and found to be below 11% NSC on a dry matter basis. Soaking hay underwater may remove excess carbohydrates and should be part of a first-aid treatment for any horse with laminitis associated with obesity or abnormal fat deposits. This can have the effect of depleting the hay of soluble minerals and vitamins, however, so care with dietary balance is important.

Nitrogen compound overload
Herbivores are equipped to deal with a normal level of potentially-toxic non-protein nitrogen (NPN) compounds in their forage. If, for any reason, there is rapid upward fluctuation in levels of these compounds, for instance in lush spring growth on artificially-fertilized lowland pasture, the natural metabolic processes can become overloaded, resulting in liver disturbance and toxic imbalance. For this reason, many avoid using artificial nitrogen fertilizer on horse pasture. If clover is allowed to dominate the pasture, this may also allow excess nitrogen to accumulate in forage, under stressful conditions such as frost or drought. Many weeds eaten by horses are nitrate accumulators. Direct ingestion of nitrate fertiliser material can also trigger laminitis, via a similar mechanism.

Hard ground
Whenever possible, avoid working horses on hard ground. This includes concrete or gravel roads. An indoor or outdoor arena should be periodically dragged with a rake, to loosen the soil and to prevent it from hardening. Hard surfaces increase the concussion upon the horse's feet. The greater and more prolonged the concussion, the more likely it is that the horse will contract laminitis.

Lush pastures
When releasing horses back into a pasture, after being kept inside (typically during the transition from winter stabling to spring outdoor keeping), it is important to re-introduce them gradually. Feed horses before turning them out and limit the amount of time outside (45 minutes to an hour at first, gradually increasing the amount of time) and decrease the amount fed to them beforehand, as the season progresses. If a horse consumes too much lush pasture, after a diet of dry hay, the excess carbohydrate of grass can be a shock to its digestive system. If the horse is fed beforehand, it will not eat as much fresh grass when turned out and will be less likely to founder. It is also true that ponies are much more susceptible to this form of laminitis than are larger horses.

***Frosted grass****
Some cases of laminitis have occurred after ingestion of frosted grass. The exact mechanism for this has not been explained but sudden imbalance of the normal bowel flora can be surmised, leading to endotoxin production.

***Freezing or overheating of the feet****
Cases of laminitis have been observed following an equine standing in extreme conditions of cold, especially if there is a depth of snow. Laminitis has also followed prolonged heating from incorrectly-applied hot-shoeing. In either case, it is possible to understand how the circulation of the feet may become adversely affected.

Cold exposure however has been shown to have a protective effect when horses are experimentally exposed to CHO overload. Feet placed in ice slurries were less likely to experience laminitis than 'un-iced' feet.

Untreated infections
Infections, particularly where caused by bacteria, can cause release of endotoxins into the blood stream, which may trigger laminitis. A retained placenta in a mare (see below) is a notorious cause of laminitis and founder.

Colic
Laminitis can sometimes develop after a serious case of colic, due to the release of endotoxins into the blood stream.

Lameness
Lameness causes a horse to favor the injured leg, resulting in uneven weight distribution. This results in more stress on the healthy legs and can result in laminitis.

Cushings disease
Cushings disease is common in older horses and ponies and causes an increased predisposition to laminitis.

Peripheral Cushings disease
Peripheral Cushings disease is an area of much new research and is increasingly believed to have a major role in laminitis. It involves many factors such as cortisone metabolism and insulin resistance. It has some similarities to type II diabetes in humans (see also 'insulin resistance, described above).

Retained placenta
It is common practice, in horse-breeding establishments, to check by careful inspection that the entire placenta has been passed, after the birth of a foal. It is known that mares that retain the afterbirth can founder, whether through toxicity or bacterial fever or both.

Drug reactions
Anecdotally there have been reports of laminitis following the administration of drugs, especially in the case of corticosteroids. The reaction however may be an expression of idiosyncrasy in a particular patient as many horses receive high dose glucocorticoid into their joints without showing any evidence of clinical laminitis. No evidence exists to show the mechanism by which glucocorticoids trigger laminitis in the horse.

Exposure to agro-chemicals
Even horses not considered to be susceptible to laminitis can become laminitic when exposed to certain agro-chemicals. The most commonly-experienced examples are herbicide and artificial nitrate fertilizer.
		
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Excellent post this. The wide and varied causes for laminitis demonstrate clearly to me how the effect on the feet is a 'symptom' of the illness. However, I note that reduced circulation to the feet may also trigger an attack. Given that shoeing drastically reduces the blood flow to the hoof puts shod horses at an increased risk in the sort of freezing conditions we are currently experiencing.

I noticed the other day that where our horses are standing in the yard, (They have a turnout area of hard standing but 24/7 access to their stables) the snow melts quite quickly under their feet, probably because their feet are quite warm in comparison to my friends horse, who is shod but does not melt the snow under its feet.


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## milomoo (24 December 2010)

Hi all, I just thought I would add to this. I have a 5 year old welsh B mare, who appears to have low grade laminitis.
 She came to me 6 weeks ago grossly overweight, I must add that through carefull diet and some exercise she has lost a little in the time I have had her. She has a flabby crest and body, when she arrived if you looked from her shoulder towards her tail she had ripples! We have a long steady weight loss plan in place for her.

I noticed that a few days ago she was 'footy' thought that it was just how awful the ground is at the moment. Yesterday I began to think either an abscess or Laminitis, classic pounding pulses and a little stiff on turning. Begged my farrier to come out in the snow(he is a super star)he arrived 15 mins later in his car armed with hoof testers etc.  Result was a very confused me and farrier as NO reaction to testers at all, but mega pulses in both front legs! The only other thing to feel was heat to the inside quarter of her off fore, possible deep bruising maybe? Near fore has the stronger pulse.  I am wondering now if it is the ground, hay, cubbiness or all three combined.

She is now confined to a small paddock with soaked hay(our hay is very rich)and being watched very very closely indeed, soaking hay in these temperatures is great fun!

I thought my days of dealing with laminitic ponies were long gone after the last 3!

Any ideas??


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## ameeyal (25 December 2010)

My arab had concussion lami 4 years ago, he mostly lives out and 3 days ago he started up with it again, with the hard  rutted ground, i moved him to a smooth {not rutted} field but he still got it, so he is now stabled, and this is a horse that does about 10 hours of hard ground hacking every week, but he can not take frozen ground


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## ameeyal (25 December 2010)

Jayned i forgot to reply, it sounds like laminitus to me, with her weight and hard ground conditions.


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## milomoo (25 December 2010)

She has got us well puzzled. As of yesterday morning after 24 hours with soaked hay, no safe and sound or fast fibre the pounding pulses have lessened in one leg and pretty much normal in the other. She has however got a slight puffiness to the fetlock of the leg with worst pulses and it's hot down the inside all the way to the bulb of her heel this morning with a strong pulse in same leg.
I suspect she had had low grade laminitis and also has an abscess brewing, I did painc today and think it was suspensory branches! she is brighter in herself today too. 
 I tried and failed to get electric fence posts in where the ground is better, so at the moment she is in half of someone elses 'bumpy' paddock with a few flat paths worn into it.
I think I will be ringing the farrier on wednesday, see what he thinks and then it might be a job for the vet, she is a loan pony so I need to be extra carefull with her.

I hope your boy is ok, laminitis is so awful whatever the season!


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## milomoo (25 December 2010)

We did also remember that she was wormed on Saturday, Fast Fibre introduced on Monday and a new bale of hay out on Tuesday. Alot of changes to contribute to laminitis if she has a predisposition to Metabolic Syndrome as my farrier suspects, he thinks that no 5 year old should have fat deporits like hers with out already having it. They do say that if it's going to happen it will start to show at 5 or 6. I just hope that it's just my mind in over drive due to past experiences.


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## charliejet (26 December 2010)

Great posts from Suejs.

My horse had a little lami this summer and has shown signs since the snow (she hasnt had frosty grass) my farrier also agree that the contact with the snow may have caused it, I hate Laminitis as well!


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## kizzywiz (27 December 2010)

suejs001 said:



			Oh and by the way Laminitis and Winter are not cushings related!  My horse was 6!!! It could be that a horse is more insulin resistent or has Equine metabolic syndrome that can be a cause of lami, but any horse who has sensitive feet can get laminitis from snow freezing the feet. 

Please unless you have direct experience on this matter or you are a vet please don't tell anyone this is not an issue.  It is.
		
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There is a link with laminitis attacks & cushings in winter, it is related to the hours of daylight & the function of the pituitary gland, as the days are shorter there is an increase in the danger of an attack of laminitis.  Meg most definately had cushings, & despite doing well on pergolide had a slight bout last winter.  Cushings horses do not do well in the extreme cold either, so I am glad I chose to PTS in June as she would be really struggling now.  I wish you well, I know what an awful strain it all is.


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## ameeyal (27 December 2010)

My arab has been stabled now for 5 days, having 1 bute a day, and it doesnt seem to be getting any better, im not soaking his hay {when he had concussion lami 4 years ago i didnt soak it then} he isnt baddley lame just a shortened stride, im really learning things from suejs posts, should i give him more bute? i really appreciate your comments.


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## touchstone (27 December 2010)

ameeyal said:



			My arab has been stabled now for 5 days, having 1 bute a day, and it doesnt seem to be getting any better, im not soaking his hay {when he had concussion lami 4 years ago i didnt soak it then} he isnt baddley lame just a shortened stride, im really learning things from suejs posts, should i give him more bute? i really appreciate your comments.
		
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If your horse isn't improving then I'd definitely be soaking hay; it really can make a difference.  The sugar content in some hays can be very high, and certainly too high for a horse suffering from laminitis.  The fact that you didn't need to soak four years ago might mean that it was lower sugar hay anyway, or your horse is more susceptible as he ages.  Unless you get your hay analysed you have no way of knowing whether it is safe or not.

I had one that did come right on unsoaked hay, but another that didn't and I wouldn't take the risk now.  Certainly a safer option than increasing his bute.

I hope he improves soon.


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## ameeyal (27 December 2010)

Thanks for that im off now to soak some hay would an hour be ok, when he improves do i need to always soak his hay, which i can not do as he lives out with my other ponys, and has 24 hour access to unsoaked hay in a field shelter, i am never going to complain about muddy fields again.


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## charliejet (27 December 2010)

If your horse hasnt responded to box rest and bute in 5 days I would prob get the Vet to look, in the meantime soak the hay, I used magnetic leg wraps on my mare and that helped a lot to get the circulation going.  Hope you horse improves soon.


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## touchstone (27 December 2010)

ameeyal said:



			Thanks for that im off now to soak some hay would an hour be ok, when he improves do i need to always soak his hay, which i can not do as he lives out with my other ponys, and has 24 hour access to unsoaked hay in a field shelter, i am never going to complain about muddy fields again.
		
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An hours soaking will help, but 12 hours is better still! 

Once he's over the initial attack he may well be fine on unsoaked hay (mine is at the moment,) but I'd introduce it carefully and monitor for any changes in the digital pulse.


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## ameeyal (29 December 2010)

My arab is getting worse, im going to ring my blacksmith today to see if he thinks his shoes need to come off, or i need to get the vet out, im getting worried about him.


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## touchstone (29 December 2010)

So sorry to hear that he is worse, mine is unshod anyway, but I would remove the shoes and make him comfy with pads or deep bedding if I were you.

It might be worth getting the vet first just in case something like pergolide might help, or  he needs stronger painkillers, is he very old?


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## milomoo (29 December 2010)

Hi, I'm sorry to hear that your horse is'nt improving. 
It is sometimes better to leave their shoes on unless they are due for doing anyway, as this can cause further problems especially if it is a long time since the horse was without shoes.  
If you are at that stage the vet is a must, they will work together with you and your farrier to keep your horse healthy. 
 The vet and farrier can work together to sort his feet out, even if they both are with you at the same time when the shoes are removed, vet will decide IF and when he needs styro foam pads etc.  Your horse may need xrays to determine if there have been any significant changes that need attention.

I dont want this to come across as a rant, but I have been in your position so many times with my own and others and it is awful.
 Please, please get the vet out, even just to have piece of mind that you and your horse are heading in the right direction.
If my mare is still iffy in the morning then vet it is, she is loads better but just not right.


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## ameeyal (30 December 2010)

I had the vet out, he said to remove his shoes {they were only put on 2 weeks ago} and he is on a deep bed, he gave him a painkiller in his vein, and gave me some bute and acps, he said he had seen loads of horses come down with laminitus in the last 2 weeks, he said if he hasnt improved by next week, he will do blood tests for insulin, he said he wasnt your typical insulin type {he is a fit lean arab} but he wont rule it out, luckerly for me he just loves been in a stable.How is your horse today Jayned?


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## milomoo (30 December 2010)

Hiya,  Lizzie seems much better, still not 100% sound. She did have an abcess burst out the side of her frog on boxing day, so was poulticed for a few days. We suspected she had one brewing on christmas eve but farrier got no reaction with hoof testers. It expalins why she had a puffy fetlock and a stronger pulse in that leg.  Has definately been caught in the v early stages of laminitis though, much improved for being in a small paddock on soaked hay and a more suitable feed.  I can't keep her in as she is a menace! If it's not nailed down it gets played with, she destroyed a hose pipe a few weeks ago and a tub tug! She was only in to be sedated for her teeth.
My farrier rekons that Lizzie is on her way if not all ready there in the way of insulin resistance, due to her having all the typical fat pads. She does'nt however had an uncontrollable appetite of drink lots like my last pony did, he was on his way to being medicated though.  I share with a pony that is on medication for EMS to look at her now you would never think it, but she was a right porker when she arrived.

Am pleased that you have a vet who knows what they are doing when it comes to laminitis, it makes it so much easier as an owner.  I know of a few locally that have shown early sign recently, don't know if it's frosty grass, ground or hay, could just be one of those winters.
I hope you boy improves soon.


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