# BEF and Meydan deal?



## palo1 (3 March 2016)

So, rumour has it, as rumour will, that the BEF may be negotiating a substantial deal with the very same Meydan that has been so implicated in endurance scandals...


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## Maesfen (3 March 2016)

Shameful but doesn't surprise me.


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## Steerpike (3 March 2016)

Nice to see people wait for facts to come out first before dragging endurance up again.


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## palo1 (3 March 2016)

Well, it may affect all the disciplines, not just endurance, if it comes to pass so not really about just endurance and the problems there.  Sorry if it seemed like a dig - not meant at all.  I wonder how the other disciplines members will feel is all.


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## Flame_ (12 March 2016)

No formal announcement yet, still time to express concerns to the BEF.

Pippa Cuckson's blog is an entertaining read, as are the comments. These cheating beggars with tons of money are making proper mugs of the FEI and, by association, all of us with any connection to them, however small.

http://www.horse-canada.com/cuckson-report/return-of-the-bogi/


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## Cuffey (12 March 2016)

This comment under Pippa's blog sums it up for me:

Makes me so angry. The UAE and FEI are destroying the sport. What is going on in this discipline? The apparent horse abuse and the blatant and seemingly acceptable (to FEI) rule breaking, cheating and fraud must make all other sporting codes wonder what G7 have done to mean they can get away with anything.

Welfare agencies enter stage right&#8230;&#8230;.someone needs to step in and actually protect the horses because it appears the FEI sure as hell won&#8217;t.

Problem is the welfare agencies are powerless as well against the rich, narcissistic, spolit brats that now control the future of the sport.

The sport is doomed. 

Stop selling your horses to G7!!!!


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## Maesfen (12 March 2016)

Well worth the read.

Talk about corruption, it oozes from them; how can they ever be respected again and what does it say about equine welfare in all this - which is the cornerstone of EDR - or it was but not if they're involved.


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## pip6 (15 March 2016)

Formal announcement has happened. Rumour is BEF has been bought for sum of one million. How many people from other horse sports will refuse the money that will shortly be on offer from BEF on moral grounds???? You can betcha the money won't be going to EGB who, despite their public support (as a BEF puppet what else could they do), must be rueing the lost sponsorship money.

Do you realise the number of FEI endurance riders in the UK numbers under 30? All this fuss for such a small minority. Also, ay EGB rides the non-FEI classes financially support the FEI classes (even though many FEI riders and their trainers are very rude about grass roots riders referring them as old women who just want to go for a trot around the hill). These Euston rides, which are not controlled by EGB in any way, clash with two or the six available EGB FEI rides in the calendar, so they will make already small class unsustainable. The joke is they are saying it is returning to a 'technical' course. Rubbish, Euston is one of the easiest rides around, second only to Kings Forest (also an FEI ride). When will they run it over a truly technical course where riders (even middle eastern ones) can't belt around at stupid speeds and have to map read rather than the follow one marker to the next?


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## Flame_ (15 March 2016)

I'm glad someone else is running the rides, the less British Endurance has to do with them the better. I don't want any of the money. What makes me very cross is that many of us are trying hard to tell people UK endurance is nothing like UAE endurance, and here we are seeming to welcome UAE endurance racing here. I want EGB to publicly say their organisation wants no involvement with this, since they are meant to be representing the membership (fail, again) and this is the position of many members. 

Also fuming with the BEF for helping this farcical situation to carry on and escalate again.


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## Steerpike (15 March 2016)

Wow Pip6 do you realise how much of a sour person you come across as with that post! Have you ridden around Euston and Kings Forest yourself?


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## pip6 (15 March 2016)

Steerpike said:



			Wow Pip6 do you realise how much of a sour person you come across as with that post! Have you ridden around Euston and Kings Forest yourself?
		
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I've crewed at both, inc FEI. To me tough rides are the likes of GHS. I'm not sour, I just get very upset at all the equestrian abuse being swept under the carpet (I witnessed skeletal horses with saddle sores being used at EP so abuse DOES happen in the UK by these countries) in the hope to get a few quid from these countries. It's amazing what can be bought, including silence. I have no price.


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## Steerpike (15 March 2016)

Oh I didn't realise you hadn't ridden but only crewed at these rides you must know how to ride them and you must know if they are technical or not. Just good to see you tar all the British Fei riders with the same brush.


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## Maesfen (15 March 2016)

You'd hope that the British FEI riders would use a bit of integrity in this.  Why would you want to be a big fish in a small pond when you get tarred by association with the nastiest of practices?


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## Steerpike (15 March 2016)

If any British riders have more than one horse they may have to use these rides to get qualifications, they are stuck between a rock and a hard place and being called every name under the sun won't help.


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## Flame_ (15 March 2016)

Steerpike said:



			If any British riders have more than one horse they may have to use these rides to get qualifications, they are stuck between a rock and a hard place and being called every name under the sun won't help.
		
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I get a bit tired of being expected to get the violins out for the handful of riders with numerous horses and not enough events to qualify them all at. I don't want to call anyone names but maybe if these people could just rein in their personal quests a little and be content for the time being with being a) already successful, b) able to qualify their top horses and c) already in a privileged position. There is no "rock and hard place" just a limitation they might have to live with - as happens when you don't have bottomless pits of money and aren't prepared to sponge any from unethical sources.


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## Maesfen (15 March 2016)

Steerpike said:



			If any British riders have more than one horse they may have to use these rides to get qualifications, they are stuck between a rock and a hard place and being called every name under the sun won't help.
		
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What I don't get is why they want to be in the same rides as those cheaters, I wouldn't even want to be in the same room as them.  I certainly wouldn't want to be seen supporting them which is what they're doing by taking part.  If people stayed away from those rides, both riders and volunteers/stewards, the message might get through to the hierarchy which has accepted the money.


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## palo1 (15 March 2016)

It's interesting that the BEF didn't feel their own national federation (EGB) were up to the job: that doesn't happen in any of the other disciplines does it?  Can we expect to see HPower take on dressage, eventing and jumping next?  These rides are a farce in every way and have no integrity.


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## Steerpike (15 March 2016)

Flame I get tired of hearing vitriol from a certain few but you don't hear me complaining. Why should the Fei riders just be 'content' with a limited amount of competitions just because you don't like the idea of extra fei rides.
Maesfen tarring everyone with the same brush again.


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## ycbm (15 March 2016)

Steerpike said:



			Flame I get tired of hearing vitriol from a certain few but you don't hear me complaining. Why should the Fei riders just be 'content' with a limited amount of competitions just because you don't like the idea of extra fei rides.
Maesfen tarring everyone with the same brush again.
		
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Nobody minds the idea of extra FEI rides. They only mind the dirty money they are being financed with.




Can we take it that you are involved with FEI rides, you seem to be getting very defensive?  No one is accusing you of treating your horse the way many Arabs are treating theirs. Or are you proposing to amputate your horse's leg if he breaks it rather than putting him to sleep? Or chase him over the finish line with a car? Or fake his qualification record? Or swap horses with the same name?


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## ester (15 March 2016)

Steerpike said:



			Flame I get tired of hearing vitriol from a certain few but you don't hear me complaining. Why should the Fei riders just be 'content' with a limited amount of competitions just because you don't like the idea of extra fei rides.
Maesfen tarring everyone with the same brush again.
		
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Nothing to stop them travelling like other sports do surely? And why 4 extra rides at the same venue?


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## ester (15 March 2016)

Steerpike said:



			Flame I get tired of hearing vitriol from a certain few but you don't hear me complaining. Why should the Fei riders just be 'content' with a limited amount of competitions just because you don't like the idea of extra fei rides.
Maesfen tarring everyone with the same brush again.
		
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Nothing to stop them travelling like other sports do surely? And why 4 extra rides at the same venue?
If people want to change what is a happening perhaps individuals need to take more of a stand given that the organisations seem to be struggling


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## Steerpike (15 March 2016)

Ycbm and that's why a lot of fei riders don't bother to say anything.
Ester why not have 4 in the same place and you will find fei riders do travel some distance for the UK rides.


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## ester (15 March 2016)

I meant internationally. Europe is pretty close. Why not 4 in the same place? - well because that will be 4 very similar challenges biased to those who suit that sort of course which to me seems daft when there aren't that many in total


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## Steerpike (15 March 2016)

Because it costs more money to go abroad than to compete here and there are rides run every year at the same venue and with the same route so you could say that about all endurance rides.


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## ycbm (15 March 2016)

Steerpike said:



			Ycbm and that's why a lot of fei riders don't bother to say anything.
Ester why not have 4 in the same place and you will find fei riders do travel some distance for the UK rides.
		
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I don't understand you, sorry.

I was asking why you are getting as defensive as if you had been accused of abusing your own horse.

Putting aside the fact that you want more FEI rides, does it not bother you the source of the funds that would provide those rides? Or are you convinced (though I note that the latest penalties for UAE riders are in the news in the last day or two) that they have got their act together and are now clean?  And if not, how dirty does the money have to get before you would reject the rides?


I not trying to needle you, honestly. I am just seriously confused why you would want to have anything to do with money from such a source.

 RIP Splitters Creek Bundy.


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## ester (15 March 2016)

Steerpike said:



			Because it costs more money to go abroad than to compete here and there are rides run every year at the same venue and with the same route so you could say that about all endurance rides.
		
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Of course it costs more but pretty much every other equestrian competitors do it to get qualifications, if competing internationally they would expect to do so. A ride ran once a year at the same venue is not the same as running 4 rides in relatively quick succession at one venue essentially making it much easier for a certain sort of horse to get its quals than others.


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## Flame_ (15 March 2016)

Steerpike said:



			Flame I get tired of hearing vitriol from a certain few but you don't hear me complaining. Why should the Fei riders just be 'content' with a limited amount of competitions just because you don't like the idea of extra fei rides.
		
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Because it would gain them respect and the support they would like, because it would put EGB under less pressure to remain involved with UAE endurance and their money, because it would encourage all the members who are dissatisfied with the direction UK Endurance is taking and who are leaving, resigning and getting fed up with various issues not to give up yet, and because the society cannot afford these few extra rides without money many participants will not accept.


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## Steerpike (15 March 2016)

Ester maybe some fei riders do not have team aspirations, maybe they just want to support the fei rides in the UK?
Ycbm I am not getting defensive I'm just stating my opinion, is that not allowed because it is different from you and a few others?


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## Maesfen (15 March 2016)

I just can't understand why all the UK riders aren't together in this and refusing to support rides held with 'dirty money'.


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## ycbm (15 March 2016)

Steerpike said:



			Ycbm I am not getting defensive I'm just stating my opinion, is that not allowed because it is different from you and a few others?
		
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You are the only person on this thread who has expressed the wish that others do not post.

I'm sorry, you sounded defensive to me. Perhaps you could explain why you want to take the money from people who abuse horses?  So far, all you've explained is that you want the rides. 


How dirty does the money have to get before you would reject it?  Does horses breaking front legs just below the knee on a flat course due to drug use and overwork not bother you enough?


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## Steerpike (15 March 2016)

Ycbm when have I said I wished others do not post or have I misunderstood you? Why do you feel the need to insist I explain to you why in your words I would want to take 'dirty money' as you insist on calling it.
Are you saying I'm not allowed my opinion unless it is the same as yours?
You don't need to keep bringing up Splitters Creek Bundy.


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## ycbm (15 March 2016)

Steerpike said:



			Ycbm when have I said I wished others do not post or have I misunderstood you? Why do you feel the need to insist I explain to you why in your words I would want to take 'dirty money' as you insist on calling it.
Are you saying I'm not allowed my opinion unless it is the same as yours?
You don't need to keep bringing up Splitters Creek Bundy.
		
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I think everyone would like to understand why you think it is all right to take this money when so many people are against it. I'm personally intrigued whether you really have convinced yourself it's morally clean, or whether your desire for more rides is more important than the origin of the cash.

You can have whatever opinion on it you like, I'd just like to know what it is, and you aren't saying.

I'm not going to trawl back through your posts but several times I have got the impression that you were saying you wished people would stop criticising this deal.

And Splitters Creek Bundy isn't the only horse who has had below the knee fractures, it's a known side effect of the drug/exercise combination that is used with these horses. And my own opinion is that we need to keep going on and on and on about it until the abuse stops.


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## Flame_ (15 March 2016)

Steerpike said:



			Why do you feel the need to insist I explain to you why in your words I would want to take 'dirty money' as you insist on calling it.
		
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That is a good question, tbf. Why would you? When wouldn't you, or is all money fine as long as it helps you achieve your aspirations?


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## Steerpike (15 March 2016)

Flame, you don't know what my aspirations are so no they won't help my aspirations but I think if the Fei are happy for these rides to go ahead then you cannot criticise the British riders for going there if they choose to. Ycbm I haven't even thought about the money let alone trying to convince myself it's clean as you say.
On a side note I see 3 horses were killed at Cheltenham today, channel 4 racing, sponsored by meydan. Not much in the media about that.


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## ester (15 March 2016)

I can't get over how you could not consider where the money is coming from and to suggest that because the FEI is happy for them to go ahead so it's all hunky dory is just :eek3: I'm sure there will be plenty in the press about Cheltenham- there is usually much more about racing than endurance!


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## Steerpike (15 March 2016)

As I said before people are allowed their own opinion, I have mine you have yours.


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## Flame_ (15 March 2016)

Steerpike said:



			Flame, you don't know what my aspirations are so no they won't help my aspirations but I think if the Fei are happy for these rides to go ahead then you cannot criticise the British riders for going there if they choose to.
		
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We'll have to disagree about that 



Steerpike said:



			Ycbm I haven't even thought about the money let alone trying to convince myself it's clean as you say.
		
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You should give it some thought, do some reading and listen to people who have explained far more eloquently than I can all the reasons why taking this money is just bad.



Steerpike said:



			On a side note I see 3 horses were killed at Cheltenham today, channel 4 racing, sponsored by meydan. Not much in the media about that.
		
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I'm actually not as appalled by the dead horses as many are, but the cheating, the pressurising exhausted horses, the amputations and the desire to control and shape international endurance instead of just entering varied rides like everyone else, keeping to the same rules, unwritten rules and etiquette as everyone else. Many of the horses seen on video footage look like they are having a really hard time, too. There will be stuff in the media about dead horses at Cheltenham anyway.


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## ycbm (15 March 2016)

ester said:



			I can't get over how you could not consider where the money is coming from and to suggest that because the FEI is happy for them to go ahead so it's all hunky dory is just :eek3: I'm sure there will be plenty in the press about Cheltenham- there is usually much more about racing than endurance!
		
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This. Stunned ....


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## Steerpike (15 March 2016)

Flame, believe it or not I do read nearly all that is published, I don't come across well on computers! I'm not burying my head in the sand, yes it's sad horses have lost their lives but it happens every day. I enjoy endurance and with all the nastiness that is going around at the moment makes me want to just put my head down and enjoy my own horse. I want to put a different view/opinion across from others and I'm sorry if a fair few of you don't like that but that is life you can't like everything.


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## ester (15 March 2016)

It is sad?! So there is no equine welfare issue?!


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## PandorasBox (17 March 2016)

Have to laugh when people resort to "lots of dead horses in racing, so that makes it OK in endurance" argument.  
Major difference being that in endurance 'to finish is to win', in endurance the aim of the game is to preserve the horse. Oh, and we aren't talking about racing, we are talking about endurance-where the welfare of the horse is paramount.

Let's face it, the UAE have given international an awful image.  One that even Jo Public has heard of.  Yet, here we are the BEF nice and comfy nestling in Meydan money, rumored to be £1 million, with EGB cast aside not fit to run the rides at Euston Park.  Last time I checked EGB were the national body for endurance, but now 5 out of 11 FEI rides have been deemed too important/prestigious/big/difficult/add your own word here  for EGB to run or have anything to do with. Instead the BEF prefer to hand over the organising of the ride to HPower, a company with with the experience of what, 3 x 2* rides at Windsor as their whole sum of their experience in endurance?  But that isn't a problem, as the FEI officials will be there if anything goes wrong, the responsibility of a smooth run ride starts and finishes with the officials chosen to officiate that ride.  
So we can all heave a sigh of relief as if HPower are looking to have the same officials as they have previously used at Windsor, then it should all be plain sailing, especially when 2 of the members of the ground jury are famous for their capacity to sleep whilst on duty! 

FEI riders will choose where they want to ride, I will put my money on certain faces that are 100% sure to sadly choose Euston Park over the EGB FEI rides.  Quick to forget the hard work and planning that has gone into the EGB FEI rides for years and the fact that those EGB FEI rides were on the calendar way before these Euston Park ones, and I will put money on others that are 100% sure to choose the EGB rides because their conscience wouldn't allow them to compete at a ride that has been bought and paid for by sponsorship that they don't agree with.

There are only 24 British FEI endurance riders registered at present.  Some of those don't even live in Britain and never compete in Britain either Last year's figure of 113, (we can probably count as around 100 UK based FEI riders if we are being generous) as the rest are abroad in far flung places across the globe.  With 6 EGB FEI rides, this is a better ratio than a lot of countries have, but it is not enough according to certain quarters.  Not prepared to hop over the channel to Holland, Belgium or France which are all in easy reach, they prefer to demand more loss making rides in their own country, after all, it is easier to win against 5 or 9 riders than to compete on the continent with 100+.  Notwithstanding that the main reason to be FEI is to compete internationally.    But what about the cost of competing internationally?  "It costs too much to go abroad, but we don't have enough rides to compete at" is often another argument used.
Well do what riders do in other disciplines when they are serious about their sport..... Find sponsors, or move countries.  Mark Todd is one of many foreigners that came to the UK to improve their eventing career, Guy Williams recently re-located to France as he was fed up with having to cross the channel every time he wanted to compete in Europe. Others go to America or elsewhere.  

There are some GB FEI riders quietly going about their business, they don't complain and they also make the effort to pop over the channel once in a while to go to an international event. 

The UAE have wrecked the sport. Despite the new measures put in place by the FEI in the UAE we have still got to double figures with regards to dead horses this season and another one to add to that from this week.  Not to mention the continuos cheating, the ghastly video of the young riders beating their dead eyed and exhausted horses over the finish line in January, the grooms chasing horses out of the start gate, the 'miraculous' recovery times, the excessive speeds, the cars still shown on the track, the disqualifications due to riders changing halfway around the loop, not to mention horses who have been disq being allowed back out onto the next loop, all under the watchful eye of 'officials'..... or maybe they were asleep, dozing in the sun (!)


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