# Women in the Hunt Field



## Damsen (2 November 2012)

Im an English student and as part of my degree I have to do a presentation on the Representation of Older Women in society. 

I have decided to focus my presentation on "Older Women in the Hunt Field and Hunting Community". Now, I do not wish to offend anybody at all with the term 'older women' as it has been set by my lecturers, not myself!!

I am a hunt supporter, and will be hunting for the first time in a few weeks. I think presenting on such a 'contraversial' subject will be a real eye opener for the other students, as the majority support the ban. Much of the public believe hunting is a barbaric and cruel sport, yet older women take part, when society dictates they may be more suited to cooking roast dinners and baking cakes. I for one think its fantastic that men, women and children of all abilities take part, and wish to examine this further in my presentation.

Does anybody have any useful anecdotes, opinions, thoughts on the subject? 
Thanks x


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## Suziq77 (2 November 2012)

How is the term 'older women' defined and how are you defining 'society'?  Knowing this would help provide context for further comment....

My initial thoughts on reading your post, other than the clarifications I have sought, were that I am not convinced that people of 'all abilities' take part nor am I at all sure that I would be more suited to cooking roast dinners/baking cakes than riding a horse across country.  I have considerably more experience of the latter than the former


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## arizonahoney (2 November 2012)

It all seems rather vague... This sounds more like social studies / anthropology than English, IMHO. 

Read any hunting novels? Might be a good place to see if there are any of your older women depicted there and see how this compares with the reality of who / what you encounter on the field today.


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## Damsen (2 November 2012)

Don't get me wrong, it is not my opinion that older women are more suited to cooking and baking, it is the general opinion of my target audience! 

Yes you're right in that it's not all abilities who take part. I mean in a broad sense, in that a reasonable competent and confident rider could hunt, and so too an excellent even rider for example. What I mean it, it is not only the elite. 

As for the terms used, they are deliberately broad, as it is up to myself to narrow it down.

At the moment I'm researching and gathering as much information as possible, and thought a forum such as this one could provide some interesting reading! 

T


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## Damsen (2 November 2012)

It is an odd topic for English Studies! 

This module is all to do with representation basically in literature, however that extends to the metaphorical literature of society. I am to base my presentation on a 'text' or form, basically a concept which has something written about it. 

It's all a bit complex to explain on here, just thought I'd put the feelers out!


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## Damsen (2 November 2012)

Also, please excuse all of the mistakes in my typing! I have been typing all morning and have become too lazy to properly check through. Not the best English student, I'm aware!


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## Suziq77 (2 November 2012)

Have you read the Flambards books by KM Peyton?  I still love them more than twenty years after first reading them. They are set before, during and after the Great War.

My own experience of a degree involving presentations/special subjects and dissertations suggests that the greater one narrows something down to explore in detail the better chance one has of impressing examiners with the depth and originality of one's thought process, but things may have changed in these modern times 

Good luck


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## Damsen (2 November 2012)

The problem is it is to be done in contemporary culture, meaning I can involve nothing older than 5 years ago! 

Ive done lots of these presentations for my degree so far, so I know how to go about it and everything, I just thought it would be useful to seek some opinions from those directly concerned by such matters, as I'm in the research and preparatory stages. 

Thanks for your thoughts guys, keep them coming!


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## LillySparrow (2 November 2012)

No personal anecdotes to offer but you could try Robert Smith Surtees' books or Seigfried Sassoon's 'memoirs of a fox hunting man' for a more historical perspective and to show how ideas about the 'older woman' in the field have changed over time, as rep in fiction / faction? Might be fun? 

Also, there are usually some great anecdotes in the H&H Hunting articles, esp ones by Michael Clayton!! He's done a book too I think? Have a look at his website; just google him and it'll come up. You might even consider emailing him and asking for any choice titbits! I'm sure he'd have a wealth of stories and opinion.

Maybe also phone up your local hunt and ask the secretary or go to one of their socials - they most likely will be having some around now. Our local hunt is at any rate.

Good luck!


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## combat_claire (2 November 2012)

I totally agree with the statement that hunting is open to all ages and abilities. 

We have a complete spectrum from small boys on the lead rein through to ladies (and men) in their 50s, 60s and 70s who not only hunt regularly mounted but have also taken on roles as hunt officials - whippers-in, joint masters, hunt secretaries and fund raisers. 

Some years ago when I first started hunting I was in the lorry with our huntsman who pointed at a member of the field and asked me how old I thought she was. I responded 65 and he replied that I was not even close and that she was actually 73. Still hunting weekly, but she looked much younger than she actually was.

The fact that you don't have to jump or gallop fast to enjoy the hunting is something I guess that opens it up to all ages and abilities of riders. The traditional image is of the crazy brave sailing majestically over hedges but the reality is that all ages and abilities can and do enjoy it!


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## arizonahoney (2 November 2012)

(I'm sure that a fair amount of baking goes on, judging from the amount of hunt sec emails requesting cakes for meets).


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## JenHunt (2 November 2012)

Suziq77 said:



			I am not convinced that people of 'all abilities' take part nor am I at all sure that I would be more suited to cooking roast dinners/baking cakes than riding a horse across country.  I have considerably more experience of the latter than the former 

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as for the All Abilities bit... I have hunted with several people who would be classed as "disabled" or whatever the politically correct term would be. People who are missing limbs, sufferers (to varying degrees) of MS, people with debilitating spinal injuries (including a broken neck!). 

Then there's the folk who hunt having only had a handful of lessons, or having only been riding a very short period of time (OH fits into this category, or did when he started!). 

Then there's the kids, or the very elderly!


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## Rowreach (2 November 2012)

Have a look at "The Fox in the Cupboard" by Jane Shilling - only written in 2005 I think, and a very good insight into hunting from a newbie's perspective, and also that of a woman (though I don't think she's that old) 

You often find that weekday meets have whole hosts of women out but not so many men (don't know what that says about society/the type of people who hunt?).

Then you get hunts like ours which are made up largely of mysogynistic men with only a few diehard women taking part (most of whom are younger because the older ones can't or don't want to keep up


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## Kat (2 November 2012)

It might be worth looking up some of the lady masters too they might be willing to talk to you about their experiences.


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## Suziq77 (2 November 2012)

JenHunt said:



			as for the All Abilities bit... I have hunted with several people who would be classed as "disabled" or whatever the politically correct term would be. People who are missing limbs, sufferers (to varying degrees) of MS, people with debilitating spinal injuries (including a broken neck!). 

Then there's the folk who hunt having only had a handful of lessons, or having only been riding a very short period of time (OH fits into this category, or did when he started!). 

Then there's the kids, or the very elderly!
		
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Good point - I didn't mean they can't, just that I have little experience of seeing this. Maybe we need more of these stories, I've also just remembered the fairly recent article in H&H about a chap who took up hunting (on his wife's horse?) and after having the most marvellous first day which included a few falls the master congratulated him on his staying power but added that most people learn to ride first (paraphrasing what I can remember here).  It was a really good article anyway IMO.


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## arizonahoney (2 November 2012)

Rowreach said:



			Have a look at "The Fox in the Cupboard" by Jane Shilling - only written in 2005 I think, and a very good insight into hunting from a newbie's perspective
		
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Not just a newbie, but a townie!  That book was sort of responsible for getting me into hunting, seeing as none of my friends or family hunt... And I have to say that I am loving it


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## JenHunt (2 November 2012)

Suziq77 said:



			Good point - I didn't mean they can't, just that I have little experience of seeing this.
		
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don't worry, I wasn't getting at you... just using your quote to help illustrate my point


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## cptrayes (2 November 2012)

Cheshire Farmers Drag Hunt have a women only day - no men on a horse allowed. Any use to you?


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## Rowreach (2 November 2012)

arizonahoney said:



			Not just a newbie, but a townie!  That book was sort of responsible for getting me into hunting, seeing as none of my friends or family hunt... And I have to say that I am loving it 

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It's a great book isn't it, and loved also by us Old Hunting Ladies


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## combat_claire (2 November 2012)

arizonahoney said:



			(I'm sure that a fair amount of baking goes on, judging from the amount of hunt sec emails requesting cakes for meets).
		
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Yah, but the youngsters are just as good at that as the older ladies! Our Young Hunt Supporters' meet is a triumph!


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## Spudlet (2 November 2012)

I was going to post about The Fox in the Cupboard too - love that book!


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## Dovorian (2 November 2012)

Well, I think if you are examining the subject in contemporary culture - the assumption that 'older women' are more suited to baking and hoovering seems dangerous. Simply put, in modern society, many 'older women' have careers and responsibilities to juggle with!


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## Judgemental (2 November 2012)

I think the description, "Maturer Women in the hunting field" would be more appropriate.

It adds a little more in the way of finesse. Of course the whole subject and title, has elements of a double entendre and I always enjoy a good double entendre or two!

Who and what may they be hunting?


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## combat_claire (2 November 2012)




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## combat_claire (2 November 2012)

Sorry Judgemental, couldn't resist!!!


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## Damsen (2 November 2012)

Thank you for all of the advice, and the insights and opinions! 
As for calling it the 'maturer' women, unfortunately I can't change the name- lecturers have deliberately made this title the way it is! 

Keep the thoughts coming, it's fab!


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## Alec Swan (2 November 2012)

Damsen said:



			.......

As for calling it the 'maturer' women, unfortunately I can't change the name- ...........
		
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.... and neither should you want to.  The mature woman is bad enough,  the matur*er* woman,  would be something again.  It would imply beyond middle age,  and stout and standing for no nonsense,  but then perhaps life can't be all sex and fun.  Into every life a little rain must fall,  though again,  in my experience,  the mature woman has been and is,  in monsoon proportions.  That'll be because of my advancing years,  and I no longer appeal to "girls",  sadly.  (Another benefit to getting older,  along with the bus pass for a transport system that we don't have,  and a winter heating fuel allowance,  which I donate to those who actually need it).

My experience of Mature women,  in the hunting field,  hasn't been the most glorious of experiences,  as you will understand.  I accept that in an effort to maintain a measure of decorum,  and to maintain a level of discipline,  they have a place,  especially if we are to consider the young entry,  but I'd be tempted to stand beside the greatest of huntsmen Ronnie Wallace,  who preferred that they weren't there,  at all.  They argue,  they know far more than any mere man,  and generally,  they wont tolerate contradiction.

I prefer girls who are in their twenties,  generally they're a deal more compliant.  

Alec.


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## LillySparrow (2 November 2012)

_


Alec Swan said:



			.... and neither should you want to.  The mature woman is bad enough,  the matur*er* woman,  would be something again.  It would imply beyond middle age,  and stout and standing for no nonsense,  but then perhaps life can't be all sex and fun.  Into every life a little rain must fall,  though again,  in my experience,  the mature woman has been and is,  in monsoon proportions.  That'll be because of my advancing years,  and I no longer appeal to "girls",  sadly.  (Another benefit to getting older,  along with the bus pass for a transport system that we don't have,  and a winter heating fuel allowance,  which I donate to those who actually need it).

My experience of Mature women,  in the hunting field,  hasn't been the most glorious of experiences,  as you will understand.  I accept that in an effort to maintain a measure of decorum,  and to maintain a level of discipline,  they have a place,  especially if we are to consider the young entry,  but I'd be tempted to stand beside the greatest of huntsmen Ronnie Wallace,  who preferred that they weren't there,  at all.  They argue,  they know far more than any mere man,  and generally,  they wont tolerate contradiction.

I prefer girls who are in their twenties,  generally they're a deal more compliant.
		
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_


Alec Swan said:



			lol. I love your post. Sounds like you've probably got a few hunting tales to tell!!  And "the young entry", haven't heard that qaint description since I was reading Ruby Fergusson's 'Jill's Gymkhana' 20 odd years ago!!! Love it. 

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## JenHunt (2 November 2012)

Alec, I don't really know how you get away with comments like that! 

There are bound to be plenty of takes that come out through the course of the season though!


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## Damsen (2 November 2012)

Well I'm starting to think you lot can just do my presentation for me and I can relax! Fab insights here, who knew I'd open up such a can of worms?!


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## Judgemental (2 November 2012)

The Oxford Dictionary defines 'older' as; advanced in age and belonging to the past.

Whereas 'maturer' is defined as; with fully developed powers of body and mind.

Speaking from purely personal preference I prefer the 'fully developed' variety.

Good confirmation being a fundamental prerequisite.


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## madmav (2 November 2012)

Defnitely get Fox in the Cupboard by Jane Shilling (I bought it for 1p from Amazon - sorry author). She's a good writer and a brave 'older woman' rider.
Incidentally, I long for the day when being older is respected because of the wisdom we may have gained over the years.


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## Alec Swan (3 November 2012)

Judgemental said:



			......

Good confirmation being a fundamental prerequisite.
		
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Whilst conf*o*rmation is a vital. 

I dread to think what our beloved Rosie would have to say.  I shrink!! 

Alec.


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