# Forgotten your jodhpurs, girls? Showjumping's desperate image bid



## Mr_Ed (20 July 2008)

" *Forgotten your jodhpurs, girls? Showjumping makes a desperate bid to find a new 21st Century image*

It's not a pose that you can easily imagine David Broome striking. 
But in a desperate attempt to update the stuffy image of showjumping, the sports bosses have persuaded two of the top young female riders to strip off for a photoshoot.
Gone are the traditional red tunic, white top and jodhpurs familiar from the Seventies when millions would watch the action on TV, with commentary from the gentlemanly Raymond Brooks-Ward.
Instead, Laura Renwick and Georgie Strutton pose in tight polo tops, knee-high black boots and not a lot else."
Read more &gt;&gt;  http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/femail/art...tury-image.html


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## EquestrianFairy (20 July 2008)

Hmm...


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## weevil (20 July 2008)

Classy


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## dieseldog (20 July 2008)

They should have got a pro to take the pictures - as someone has commented on the story says - white knickers!


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## Nailed (20 July 2008)

HUMM... INTERESTING....
yes the white nickers dont really work do they!


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## Booboos (20 July 2008)

Readers' wives more like!


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## scotsmare (20 July 2008)

I saw this earlier today and I don't think it actually was necessary for them to be pictured in their underwear - definitely lowered the tone and really wasn't relevant to the story.


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## Jesss (20 July 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
I saw this earlier today and I don't think it actually was necessary for them to be pictured in their underwear - definitely lowered the tone and really wasn't relevant to the story. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Ditto.


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## carthorse (20 July 2008)

It was ok until the 3rd pic then it went downhill [ further] ,is it necessary , the one fully dressed is much nicer


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## the watcher (20 July 2008)

Who could possibly have thought this was a good idea?

Tacky.


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## Ladyfresha1 (20 July 2008)

That is awful. And they call themselves professional? Do these women actually want to be taken seriously? Why does raising the profile of the sport involve sex? Our sport is about what we can do with horses,not looking like a hooker! If anything this will add to the sterotyping in our sport. This is degrading to the girls. You can be sexy with your riding clothes ON.

This is exactly what our sport doesn't need. I am shocked that Laura and Georgie agreed to do this.


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## Chestnut_filly14 (20 July 2008)

Those knickers are disgusting!!!! What was with the photo of them BOTH in the hay? If people want this image of horses, they read 'Polo'.

 Em
x


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## eventgirl (20 July 2008)

one word - WRONG!!!


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## lucretia (20 July 2008)

OH. MY. GOD. Does it say 'desperate'? Cos that is certainly the right word. 
  While i agree showjumping needs to make more of itself and raise its profile but who thought of this and who concieved and took these pictures? Some prepubescent schoolboy living next door to stoneleigh? they are awful, the light isnt good, as everyone has said the outfits are awful and they havent even bothered to spray tan the girls legs. White knickers and white legs? and judging by the comments below the article the public are as impressed as us. 
  and who was advising the girls? they are both cracking jocks and attractive with it, they didnt need to whip their kit off for this sort of cheap publicity. 
  Loking at these people will think that 'Riders' is a reference book not a novel.


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## BlackWhite381 (20 July 2008)

Oh Dear!!


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## Natch (20 July 2008)

I think the HHO ones were much better!!!








They look like tacky page 3 girls. But then maybe the idea is to attract pervy old men to the sport... 
	
	
		
		
	


	





ETA - You've gotta LOVE the expression on that horse's face though! PMSL!


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## wishfulthinking (20 July 2008)

There just aren't enough words to describe how terrrible those pics are.


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## Jiffy (20 July 2008)

*Rolls eyes*

Ladies, I wonder when we can look forward to seeing Geoff Billington and Tim Stockdale photographed in similiar poses for our delectation?


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## Meadon (20 July 2008)

eeek! What's wrong with the old look, that's what I've always liked about certain equestrian disciplines that they'be kept their tradition. 

I wouldn't dare ride side saddle in my knickers to attract more to the sport! lol!!


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## Chunkie (20 July 2008)

Who on earth persuaded those girls that this was a good idea?  

Why didn't they use a professional photographer?

Who in their right mind would think that images like that are going to attract anyone into the sport?

What is wrong with tradition?  I would rather someone told me I looked "stuffy" than cheap and trashy.


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## Flint12 (20 July 2008)

i love the horses face in the first one. . . he looks a little confused. . .

it makes Horse riding look cheap and tacky and trashy. . .i would have thought it would scare people away not tempt them in. . .
Who would want to get rid of the tradition of horse riding. . .

o well


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## Weezy (20 July 2008)

Oh Jesus wept, how on EARTH could Georgie and Laura done this to themselves 
	
	
		
		
	


	





Our Godiva pics are FAR more classy than these AND show a lot more!!!!

Tacky, BADLY styled, titillating and bound to alienate EVERY female rider out there and interest only dirty old men!


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## onceuponatime (20 July 2008)

Oh lighten up you lot!  Take this with the good spirit in which it was meant.  Who (except a desperate housewife) would want to see the likes of men pushing and post fifty in their jocks?  Fair play to these girls for trying to bring a little bit of entertainment into an otherwise non interesting sport for our public?  Their are plenty of girls who walk around showgrounds with their white breeches on leaving very little to the imagination.  Plenty can be seen at Hickstead next week and if the public saw the antics in the evenings - they would be disgusted and probably applaude these two girls (who are both very polite and well spoken) for trying to raise the image of the sport.    I really do not think there is anything offensive in what I saw and who knows - if it boosts their publicity I am sure they won't mind!  
As far as the reference to Polo and Riders - some of you really need to know what goes on behind the scenes!!!!


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## lucretia (20 July 2008)

well said weezy and horsenmad007 if you think these images in a quality national paper like the Mail is a good idea, you are very much mistaken. this item has also made in onto a USA forum (no redeeming comments so far) and the comments on the Mails own site are far from positive. 
   i do totally apprieciate the girls did this with good intentions and with a modicum of taste from the person who concieved the shoot they might have succeeded. 
  and as for references to Polo and Riders some of do know what goes on behind the scenes, but the point is that it is behind the scenes. What the public and sponsors dont know for certain cant hurt them or damage the chances of support from them.


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## Weezy (20 July 2008)

horsemad - the fact is I KNOW G &amp; L are well spoken and polite girls, hence why I am thoroughly shocked by these pics!  IMO they would have looked far sexier IN their breeches than without them!  They could have had their names on the seat of the breeches for example, or black hot pants with their names on, I don't know, ANYTHING but 3 for £5 BHS cheap pants...

And sorry but I don't think this type of exposure is what the higher echelons of SJing had in mind when this series was conceived...

I know what goes on behind the scenes, been there, done that, doesn't mean the sport of SJing needs to be cheapened, things go on in every area of life that would raise people's eyebrows!


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## lucretia (20 July 2008)

and you have to woner exactly who the BSJA is trying to attrach to shows. if its families, i dont think they will be too impressed hanging about with mac wearing, penthouse reading dirty old men who are attrached by this sort of very soft porn 'pony girl with whip and boots' image.


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## onceuponatime (20 July 2008)

Thanks Lucretia.  I think it's quite a giggle really.  I am sure both girls were aware of where the photos would have been published and could not have been fazed by it.  Therefore fair play to them.  I remember when a calendar was published showing our male riders topless - no one caused a stir.  They have have obviously generated quite an interest and if this is to their benefit sobeit!  As I have said - if the public think this is bad - give them a night out at Hickstead - showjumping really would be dead then!!!!  Sex, drugs and rock and roll have nothing on a week there.  The girls are not showing any naughty bits and at least they don't look like the back end of two buses!!! (LOL)


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## brighteyes (20 July 2008)

Aye, tis a shame.  What sort of interest is this supposed to generate?  Unless they are going to compete as scantilly clad, there are going to be some very disappointed punters!


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## onceuponatime (20 July 2008)

I am sure there are plenty of 'mac wearing' leering, dirty old men around anyway - a few of them sj'ers themselves!!


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## lucretia (20 July 2008)

the trouble is horsemad G and L ride horses cos that is their job, obviously. their job means they probably dont spend much time with the not particularly horsey public or even the horsey non professionals. consequently they probably did think it was a laugh but surely one of the jobs of the BSJA's press and marketing department is not to provide a giggle for those inside showjumping already but to be able to accurate gauge the response of the public and media to their press releases and advise their members of these reactions? 
  they are good looking girls and as weezy and myself have both said with a little more thought there could have been an entirely different and more positve reaction entirely. 
  i do not think in a week when the super league comes to Hickstead for what maybe the last time,  that the BSJA need to be playing for 'giggles' and hoping that the maxim  'all publicity is good publicity' turns out to be a fact and not a rather naive urban legend.


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## Sharonr (20 July 2008)

What else is there to say but what a load of pants!!!

I wouldn't be overly happy with the pics if I were them, not exactly classy, how embarrassing!!


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## onceuponatime (20 July 2008)

I only looked at this forum to see what was happening not to enter into a war.  I guess we all have our own opinions (thank god) and I truly see no harm in the pictures I saw.  If small minded people cannot see the lighter side in life I do not see the point in endlessly posting negative comments.  I am sure Georgie and Laura are enjoying the sensation this has turned out to be - it's got you lot buzzing.  I sincerely hope this creates open doors for them in one way or another!  Perhaps people will realise that the stuffy image of showjumping HAS gone and its not just a sport for elite.  I can remember days when the image of riding, not just showjumping, was that of a stuffy old DC and that only those who were born with a silver spoon in their mouths took part.  These girls have brought a new look to the sport and GOOD ON THEM!  Regarding the Super League, I am sure the BSJA are not playing for 'giggles' that is purely my reaction to the stir this has caused.  Any avid follower of this sport realises the seriousness of the SL - it is probably the only time any foreign countries bother coming to the UK to compete.  I am sure our counter-parts in Europe will look at this in the way it should be taken and actually think the Brits have finally caught up with the rest of the world!


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## GinaB (20 July 2008)

Oh dear me. Tacky.


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## lucretia (20 July 2008)

you are quite right about people having their own opinion and i have no problem with you having yours on this. sadly having spent much of the last year in europe including working for one of the leading young lady showjumpers there, i think they will  be sniggering not laughing with us. In europe showjumping is an extremely 'serious' sport already and if the powers that thought of this had thought for two seconds about this, how impressed will samsung be this week at hickstead that instead of talking about the best in the world coming to compete in the class they sponsor, the media will be more concerned about finding how if ther are anymore 'revelations' to come from Britains showjumpers.  
  the girls brought  an new look to the sport for sure but frankie dettori did the same for racing a few years back without a posing pouch, and i think its fair to say (from the responses i have seen on other international forums)  Zara's new landrover commercial is doing much the same for eventing. it  just seems sad to me that in the same week our olympic horses go into quarantine that this sort of cheap stunt was deemed nessescary so close to hickstead and the olympics. 
  Laura and Georgie are both lovely attractive young women, who did this with the best intentions i am quite sure. it is not their fault they  were badly advised by people who should know better.


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## Tinkerbee (20 July 2008)

They could have at least worn black pants and softened the lighting. Daft.


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## onceuponatime (20 July 2008)

Each to their own.  I still don't think it has done either of them any harm what so ever.  It would be interesting to hear their comments.  Good night!


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## lucretia (20 July 2008)

it surely would!! be seeing you!


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## Murphy3 (20 July 2008)

AT least they show that riding is the best cure for cellulite!


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## kickandshout (21 July 2008)

great  idea  NOT lets just highlight the fact horsey girls wear long boots and carry whips  ....
and its right to oogle them.

crikey how many times have you had a lewd comment about your weekend wear ??
sad really


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## missfroufrou (21 July 2008)

Oh Jiffy thank you for that mental image...
But seriously ,I think it is really sad that young sportswomen like these seem to find it acceptable or positive to be seen in this light. There was a truly noving article in H&amp;H the other week about Caroline Bradley about how influential and dedicated she was, and guess what? she never posed in her pants, and guess what? I bet I could ask any-bod in the street and they would probably remember who she was, a true guardian of the sport who never had to take part in cheap publicity...Laura who???
To the people that have posted the 'lighten up' stuff, how can the sport survive going forward? Baby steps have been made recently in terms of trying to garner the sort of coverage showjumping had in the '70s, it won't take much for it to be seen as something laughable that should just be relegated as unimportant and trite. If the sportspeople involved are seen as they are, dedicated and utterly serious, the non-horsey public might take it seriously too!


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## BBH (21 July 2008)

This is so sad !! Has showjumping really come to this, where the powers that be think the only way of attracting the public is by showing scantily clad girls. And if so what sort of people are they trying to attract anyway other than scanky old men.


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## LindaW (21 July 2008)

What a shame, the women are very pretty, but the photos - everything about them is so amateurish.  It could have been done so much better, the photographer clearly has no idea what he/she is doing.

No they don't do them any good at all.


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## cefyl (21 July 2008)

The comments from this in the US have been that they look like girls off "chat lines for sex" commercials that are on USA cable tv late at night.  I have to agree it is truely the worst case scenario of an amature photographer trying to start off a career photographing page 3 hopefuls.

If the BSJA wanted sexy they could at least have hired a professional fashion shoot team to make it tasteful.  Even the clothes look seedy.  

As lucretia said SJ in Europe has a very classy image, many high class, wealthy  owners who would possibly if they were domiciled in the UK be drawn to racing as a sport.  But SJ is there so highly respected they put their money into it.  You only have to look at the lavish events held all over mainland Europe to see the expense and quality lavished on it.  This just makes a mockery of the girls and the sport in the UK.

Does nothing at all to encourage sponsorship for which the sport is in need of at present.


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## JM07 (21 July 2008)

Oh Dear


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## BBH (21 July 2008)

I so agree with you, people are saying they are ' pretty' but they are stereotypical bleached blonds who look trashy in these photo's. Dressage is seen as so much classier then SJ and coming from a city background I know a lot of guys would go to local lap dancing clubs to see girls like this but no-way would they invest money in them or their sport. They wouldn't take it as a serious business proposition.


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## BBs (21 July 2008)

What a shame that they thought this is the only way forward to promote the sport.

What does it promote exactly??


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## Booboos (21 July 2008)

There was a really funny Ch4 documentary years ago when Jilly Cooper's "Riders" was first out (the book and TV movie). It cut between scenes of the TV movie and descriptions of the glamorous and sexy "Riders' characters, with real life horsey people, e.g. groom talking about low wages, working hours, etc. while shovelling muck. I *think* Geoff Billington was in it, which was a good choice of a no-nonesence, get on with the job kind of horse person, juxtaposed with the main "Riders" character who was a dashing, super clean and super sexy stud!


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## Tiggy1 (21 July 2008)

How awfull.
Wouldn't this have been a good job for Katie Price??
Good looking girls though but why?


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## The Voice (21 July 2008)

I agree the pictures are tacky and cheap and does not potray the right image to many but when was the last time showjumping got coverage or even a mention  by a Sunday paper (even they mention David Broome from 30 years ago)?

To attract sponsors to bring money into the sport, it needs joe public spectators to get back into the sport (like the 70's/80's), and not just horsey people. With regards to showjumping, how many sports can you say to people that you can go down to a local arena and watch top class action from world class leading competitors for FREE (especially in this day and age?). Why is the sport not more popular with spectators? It is about image, and the showjumping image is not good now as it has been dominated by the same faces for decades, which is now changing. It either has to be portrayed as a more upper level sport and would have to compete with polo and dressage, or as a more general sport (although seeing riders prancing around in their primark pants is most probably not the right image).

How many people would go an watch Katie Price if they knew she was competiting? What has she ever done in reality. Not a great deal,she is a personality with big assets! The sport needs personalities and although the pictures are wrong, they will be remembered for wearing cheap knickers (will people start throwing them better ones)?

For all the people wanting to see Geoff and Tim in their posing pouches, that is just soooooo wrong!!!


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## Rambo (21 July 2008)

I agree...the idea *could* have been a good one, and *could* have been highly amusing....and they didn't even need to lose their breeches (jods.....how tacky 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 ) to make it so....

Showjumping is full of PYT's so why not use them to good effect.....BUT.....what I can't understand is this...the article appears in the FEMAIL section of the paper...which is presumably aimed at the fairer sex 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 Why do women readers want to see pictures (tacky or otherwise) of scantilly clad girls 
	
	
		
		
	


	





One other thought I had too....how are Laura and Georgie now going to be viewed by their male compatriots on the circuit following this stunt ? I reckon there'll be some p155taking going on at Hickstead this week 
	
	
		
		
	


	





Another opportunity wasted I fear...


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## BBH (21 July 2008)

I think another thing that should be considered is that in the quest to attract more people into the sport with this approach you may put off existing horse people from going to shows. One of the big problems with SJ is that it is boring to watch after the initial few rounds, when you only have one person in the ring at a time you can never build up any adrenalin or excitement as they aren't in direct competition at the same time, look how the pairs at olympia gets the crowd going,  even my horsey friends struggle to watch too much.


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## StaceyTanglewood (21 July 2008)

oh  my god i am absolutely disgusted let alone ashamed that i actually work for the company sponcoring the british masters !!!!!! 

I think i may go to HR immediately !!!!


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## The Voice (21 July 2008)

Totally agree as even when our horses are competiting we try and time it so we just see the classes. If there is a big show say at Towerlands, we would only go and watch the GP and these are the classes that should be adverised with a start time to 'introduce' people to sj. It is possible to turn the sport around ( I have compared it to Speedway which was a sport that was the second largest spectator sport in the 70's disappeared for 20 years and now has prime time slots on sky).There is no quick fix but is possible and as it becomes ever increasing in costs to compete in, i can see it becoming a bigger spectator sport rather than a competitor sport  it just needs to be sexed up and less boring!


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## lucretia (21 July 2008)

i dont disagree at all about what you are saying about image and the image of showjumping but i am afraid as i said before that not all PR is good PR and though if this had been in the News of the World it might have fitted in the fact that the mail picked it up and clearly were not impressed has probably alienated more people than it would attract. 
  its funny but i had a conversation with a showjumping contempary of these ladies a couple of months ago and i said that i thought it was a shame showjumping (and eventing as it happens) did  not make more of some of their young and personable competitors.  however i can think of some better ways than this. if i was a sponsor of the chester show in particular, i would be horrified. 
  and as for british showjumpings image in europe i cant imagine christina liebherr doing this and she is already on a current billboard campaign for the olympics. 
  and as Rambo said  there are plenty images about that portray that showjumping isnt all about stuffy old men and  horse faced women, below is a picture i took at the Derby meeting of Clare Robertson (?) who had just been dropped at the bank, i think it is a happy real life picture, there is nothing 'posh' about the image and she has her clothes on. there must be loads of others.


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## ponyclubnicole (21 July 2008)

I'm only 17 and I think that these look awful and so so tacky. I would much prefer to see real action shots with 'all' their clothes on. Breathtaking shots that would make you go hmmmm, how exciting and impressive does that look. 
Ok these got in the Mail and it's being talked about but it is because it looks so tacky and nothing more. These images would not in anyway entice anyone into the sport, how could they. Tomorrow's chip paper is all they'll be and if I were them I would be horrified and very embarrassed. They should have insisted on a spray tan and decent knickers at the very very least. Awful am speechless. Totally classless and cheap looking regardless of the blonde hair, maybe they didn't realise they'd look quite as bad feel sorry for them really if they didn't realise???


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## Racing_Gal (21 July 2008)

They could of at least worn decent underwear!  Chewing gum white Bidget Jones knickers?!?!!!  Come on, if your going to disgrace(sp) our sport, at least do it properly!


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## tammy1 (21 July 2008)

Whilst I agree thay are obviously not the classiest of shots... please give them a break!! 
I happen to be very good friends with both girls and they agreed to do these shots with the best intentions for our sport and obviously to raise their own profile. However this may have back fired slightly, but I do think having an opinion is one thing but damn right insulting them ie "sterotypical bleached blondes" is another!


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## CracklinRosie (21 July 2008)

Surely a pair of tight fitting white jods is more appealing than wearing your Grannies knickers!!!!!!!!


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## lucretia (21 July 2008)

yes i agree with tammy because its hardly their fault  as i have said before that they were so badly advised by the BSJA.


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## Solstar (21 July 2008)

how cheap looking...


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## Weezy (21 July 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
Whilst I agree thay are obviously not the classiest of shots... please give them a break!! 
I happen to be very good friends with both girls and they agreed to do these shots with the best intentions for our sport and obviously to raise their own profile. However this may have back fired slightly, but I do think having an opinion is one thing but damn right insulting them ie "sterotypical bleached blondes" is another! 

[/ QUOTE ]

Tammy hardly anyone is slating the girls themselves, it is the powers that be that need a good slap, and the stylist AND the photographer!


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## jaffs (21 July 2008)

I don't have a problem with the Girl's attempts to promote Showjumping, that is to be applauded. I do have a problem with the Photo's themselves. 
The Girls are Beautiful and highly Talented, they could have been made to look absolutely Stunning.It is the fault of whoever dressed them and proofed these photo's for publication. It looks like it's been okayed by Letchy, Leery old men (Hmm, BSJA....maybe it has!!) 
There are some fantastic image consultants around, (If someone from the organisation would like to PM me i could recommend one or two) why oh why don't the BSJA use them...we pay enough in membership, they can't be short of money...
I thought that the days of Dumbing down women in showjumping died out when Ronnie Masserella retired, looks like it's sadly making a comeback.
Please don't take my post the wrong way girls, I genuinely applaud you both for trying, it is not a criticism of you, it is of the people who handled this campaign.


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## weevil (21 July 2008)

Why on earth does the BSJA think that in order to improve their image it is a good idea to take some cheap and trashy pictures of a couple of showjumpers. If they want the sport to appear less "stuffy" and appeal to a wider audience then they are going about it in entirely the wrong way IMO.


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## firm (21 July 2008)

Awful 
	
	
		
		
	


	





More appropriate for Femail would be an article with female SJs looking great  &amp; showing how this is one &amp; possibly the only sport in which women can beat men &amp; get to the top in the world on equal terms. 

It is not trying to break stereotype for SJ as when I was a teenager (quite a few years ago!) I spent a lot of time fending off remarks from non riding lads  about tight jods, whips, going for a "ride"  and feeling quite uncomfortable about it all.This reinforces that image in the worst way possible.  

Sorry girls not your fault!  Could have been done so much better.


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## lucretia (21 July 2008)

i sincerely hope someone from the bsja is reading this and all the other threads i have found in other places regarding it and the ones on the Mail's web site under the offending article.


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## miss_bird (21 July 2008)

They would of got the message across showing some pictures of the horse and rider in motion with silly captions coming from the horses mouth, would of still been a darn sight more classy than those tastless, trashy, just horrid photos.


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## SAL66 (21 July 2008)

Its a sad fact of life that "sex" sells so the advertising media seem to think.

I think it is a cheap and tacky message, but no more so than any other advertisment. I often have to attend the Motorshow for the motor trade and often met with a half naked woman drapped over the front of the bonnet, why!

Lets hope that the bsja can turn this around into something more positive- not sure how though.


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## BBH (21 July 2008)

I just don't get how anyone thought these photo's were going to
enhance the image of SJ, these pictures demonstrate the impression most have of the people in the sport anyway. The target audience should have been considered and then appropriate photo shoots done to attract the key audience. The photo posted by Lucretia is really lovely, it portrays a real partnership and a happy, healthy lifestyle, to which anyone can aspire. You'd just need an adoring family in the background and job done. It looks classy. 

I am going to get shot down in flames here but I personally don't agree that its ' not the girls fault'. I think you'd have to be pretty dense not to think this through and consider the reaction it might cause. If someone is asked how to promote their job / interest to a wider marketplace not many would come up with this as the answer. I agree they probably didn't put it together but i think they would have had some  veto on the final results and the chance for some input. I know I would if I was being asked to promote anything so visually.


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## The Voice (21 July 2008)

Because the pictures (not the riders) are not what is expected, it is most probably a positive campaign as it has got into the paper (which otherwise it most probably wouldn't have) generating publicity for the show (which is aimed also on betting people, streotype may appreciate the pictures!!), the sponsor, who may or may not like them and the riders. Now is time to build on the publicity good or bad. At least it has got people talking about the sport. Personally I don't think they are the right image but it is something to work on and the riders are good looking and great sports for doing it.

Many people do not understand what a tough and demanding living it is ( I wouldn't do it) and for the girls to look so great is a great testiment to them and all the other riders. Perhaps now they can get Trinny and Suzanna to do a make over to keep every one else happy.


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## onceuponatime (21 July 2008)

Well said 'The Voice'.  As you say it certainly has got everyone talking - even across the water! Good or bad it has created a reaction which is what the media is all about.  I agree - some sort of follow up would be great both for the girls who have taken unecessary abuse from this forum and also the BSJA.  If they used this to their full advantage they could really turn the whole thing around.  I am sure both Georgie and Laura would enjoy the attention and pampering!


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## lucretia (21 July 2008)

thanks for the compliment Lhs 
	
	
		
		
	


	





as for saying its is a 'positive' campaign, well maybe it is in terms of numbers of people reading or discussing showjumping who might not otherwise be doing so. i cant think of any other positive attribute.
  the pictures are tasteless and badly shot, which is no advertisement for either the photographer or the marketing person who chose them. The fact that someone at the BSJA has decided that 'tits and bums' is the way forward to market their sport is a)unlikely to increase membership B) unlikely to increase family/female viewing/spectating because it will alienate the great majority of them  and c) risk angering a great many of the sponsors they would hope to attrach, unless of course it is about to become The Penthouse Super League/Jumping Derby. 
   Sex only sells in certain areas in others it merely  titilates (such a good word  in the circumstances  
	
	
		
		
	


	




) or acts in completely the opposite way and start a sales loss. i always thought that you had to be be clear about your target audience when planning a PR campaign and  so the other thing this would tell me asa sponsor was that the BSJA had no clue who that is.
  Some body mentioned katie price earlier. pity no one with her business acumen is on the team behind this.


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## StaceyTanglewood (21 July 2008)

I must say the calender the dressage men did was good and tastefull !! 

why could we do something like that ???


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## flohelf (21 July 2008)

Only in GB !!!!!!


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## aloxley69 (21 July 2008)

Show Jumping hasnt had this much publicity in years  Brilliant!



Do people not realise that unless you resort to these kinds of pictures the press are not interested in giving coverage. Many other Sports have posed naked. These girls are shown in shorts less revealing that some athletes wear on track. Didnt British Eventing do a calendar?  After all we do need to bring the Show Jumping into the 21st Century. If this acts as a springboard to the media it can only be a good thing. Non horsey friends are telling me that now that they will definitely come and spectate. Before I would have had to of dragged them!


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## Jiffy (21 July 2008)

Yeah... well Max Mosley got people talking about Formula One, but I don't think that is the kind of publicity that he wanted to attract.   
	
	
		
		
	


	




  Perhaps if those young riders draped themselves around him, you'd be happy with the attention it bought?


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## lucretia (21 July 2008)

and strangely, as is often the case in these debats a stranger with no post history appears to defend the indefensible.  
	
	
		
		
	


	









 *scurries off to see if someone called andrea works at the BSJA*


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## jaffs (21 July 2008)

are you employed by the BSJA by any chance???


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## jaffs (21 July 2008)

spooky


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## sunflower (21 July 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah... well Max Mosley got people talking about Formula One... 

[/ QUOTE ]

*snigger*


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## lucretia (21 July 2008)

*plays twilight zone theme in the background while sniggering*


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## weevil (21 July 2008)

Many other sportspeople have posed naked but does that mean every rider should? The eventers may have done a calendar but, if I remember rightly, it was done for charity and was a lot more tasteful then the tabloid trash that these girls produced. I would be very worried if my non-horsey friends decided to come and watch on the basis of those photos


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## Weezy (21 July 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
Show Jumping hasnt had this much publicity in years  Brilliant!



Do people not realise that unless you resort to these kinds of pictures the press are not interested in giving coverage. Many other Sports have posed naked. These girls are shown in shorts less revealing that some athletes wear on track. Didnt British Eventing do a calendar?  After all we do need to bring the Show Jumping into the 21st Century. If this acts as a springboard to the media it can only be a good thing. Non horsey friends are telling me that now that they will definitely come and spectate. Before I would have had to of dragged them! 

[/ QUOTE ]

Make the sport sexy, yes that is fine, but honey PLEASE, have you no taste?  The photos are tasteless and tacky, nothing more, nothing less.  This could have worked SO well - both girls are gorgeous, articulate and more than capable of being classy!

Here I am naked on my horse - less clothes, less *styling*, just bare flesh...you tell me which is more tasteful?!!  I am only posting this to prove that naked is better than what was published!


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## carthorse (21 July 2008)

You have lovely long toes!


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## lucretia (21 July 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
Show Jumping hasnt had this much publicity in years  Brilliant!


[/ QUOTE ]

Have you noticed there is a bit of a do in Hong Kong in about three weeks? Might get a bit of press if we won a medal there i should think. Slightly sad  that the sports ruling body has decided that team has so little chance of winning a medal they coulnt wait a short time before desending to gutter press level.
and weezy picture is much nicer. though i dont know what it wwas in aid of by the way.


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## flohelf (21 July 2008)

Wonder why YOU didn't get the contract Weezy....


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## Weezy (21 July 2008)

Carthorse, my feet are SO dirty 
	
	
		
		
	


	




  Also long toes = size 9 feet, not good!

Lucretia - it was for charity - that is the only one I have on this computer, the rest I had done (by my OH on a little point and shoot) show lots more flesh but are tasteful.

blackeventer - if your son wants to send me that gorgeous grey to SJ in the series I will happily volunteer for more naked shots


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## lucretia (21 July 2008)

fair play, i couldnt get my cellulite out on view, even for charity.


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## Weezy (21 July 2008)

We have raised over £4k thus far, so it was worth it


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## lucretia (21 July 2008)

very well done and for the record,  the eventing one has sold over 5000 copies as far as i know  so at a tenner each it was well worth it. i suppose the Sun or the Daily sport might offer the BSJA more for therest of their pictures and they can use it to sponsor a super league show at hickstead as no other serious sponsor is going to be intersted in being associated with their idea of tasteful good publicity


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## Weezy (21 July 2008)

Yes it was very worth it - I think the way everyone got behind Claire was fantastic and she is SO dedicated to getting back on her feet, a true inspiration


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## lucretia (21 July 2008)

and event though i thought the pictures did some of them no favours (i mean how do you take a bad picture of whittington, i have never been able too) it was all tongue in cheek, nor was it used to 'promote' the sport (though its good humour has had that effect)


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## katherinef (21 July 2008)

I was very disappointed with the pics in the Mail. At the end of the day what's wrong with the formal so called stuffy attire.  It looks smart and professional. This is just tacky and endemic of society today - dumbing down and cheapening.  Shame really to the girls pictured for doing it.  Its demeaning and unnecessary.   I would not regard them as showjumping ambassadors - I'll reserve that phrase for the lady riders who truly deserve it - Pat Smythe, Marie Edgar, Caroline Bradley, etc


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## miss_bird (22 July 2008)

Have to say what is more appealing to the public ellen in her caldene photos (fully clothed) or these girls in their trashy half naked pics, It is yet again yeah girls you can compete equally against men in this sport but really you are just better at getting your kit off to generate publicity.
Bring on Katie Price she does so much more to bring equestrian into the media without getting her kit off, just by looking great in her riding clothes.
Would we ever realise there is just as much publicity by doing well it the olympics then by bringing the sport down to gutter level with these photos
Forgot to add these girls in their contract would/should of had a say on their attire and then a final say on the photo, if they did not well that is dumb and there is no excuse for that. sorry to upset anyone


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## LindaW (22 July 2008)

Crikey!  Some of the posts are pretty unfair on the girls, they aren't professional models, clearly someone didn't book a professional photographer, so it was always going to be poor.  How were the girls to know?  They at least, I'm sure did it with the best of intentions, and I think they have been let down - bless them, they were game enough to do it!

Really, they are nice looking, with good figures, a proper stylist and photographer could have done some cracking pics with no more than a top button undone...


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## kombikids (22 July 2008)

the only thing those picks are promoting are the girls pockets.


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## xspiralx (22 July 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
 Bring on Katie Price she does so much more to bring equestrian into the media without getting her kit off, just by looking great in her riding clothes.


[/ QUOTE ] 

But the only reason Katie P can bring equestrian into the media is because she is famous - and the reason she is famous is for getting her kit off! Whilst there's nothing wrong with that, she's hardly the person I would hold up as an ambassador of modesty and class in the sport! 
	
	
		
		
	


	





Have to say I think these pics are a bit tacky - SJ can be up to date and sexy without being trashy, and its a great shame they aren't shot professionally to look far more classy.


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## lucretia (22 July 2008)

they actually did employ a professional (but not a specialist fashion/glamour one) here is the link http://www.katzeye.co.uk/index.html clearly good a taking pictures of what is in front of her but not so good at structured, posed shots of which i suppose Annie Liebo???? who does Vanity Fair is the best example i can think of.


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## henryhorn (22 July 2008)

Perhaps we should suggest the Mail uses Weezy's shot it she is agreeable, far nicer and very tasteful....


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## severnmiles (22 July 2008)

Whatever you think - It worked!  You're all talking about it


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## Beanyowner (22 July 2008)

Personally I would think that would be quite painful to ride like that..........


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## BBH (22 July 2008)

True enough...   but not in a positive way !!! and we're even the horsey people who would try hard to see the benefits, so goodness knows what joe public think ( which if they are Mail readers won't be much  as the last story they ran about SJ was David Mc wottsit beating up his horse at Hickstead and being fined and the BSJA being accused of covering it up )


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## Artois (22 July 2008)

A bit of a fake tan - airbrush and a decent photographer would have been a good idea.

and some decent undies ha ha - who picked the bridget jones white knickers lol x 

The would have looked better in jods !!!


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## severnmiles (22 July 2008)

But that's the point, any publicity is GOOD!


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## ischa (22 July 2008)

i dont think it would be the girls idea do you more men idears i think 
but i must stay that it does give woman a name s**g comes too mind but equestrian has also been known for a sexy industry too but aleast they could of kept there jods on


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## BBH (22 July 2008)

I think I must be missing something !!

How can it be good to have horse beating, cover ups, and sleaze as the only publicity given to promote a sport, surely it would be better to have none rather than that. It does get people talking but only about how awful things are, if you are offering sponsorship I can't think of anyone who would want their company associated with that.

There are always way to generate publicity tastefully, look at  Sophie ??? the para dressage rider in the papers with Paul McCartney, he met her and was inspired to help her.


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## lucretia (22 July 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
But that's the point, any publicity is GOOD! 

[/ QUOTE ]

sadly as i said earlier in this thread that is a rather unfortunate urban legend. virtually all of this talk is negative. it wont inspire investment in the sport except from one or two sleaze balls with no real money.
   Let me give you an alliteration you will really understand with your eventing experience. Do you think that Bettina was done any favours when she got eliminated in athens? the publicity she got from that mistake was enormous. Did she get any new rides from it? A new sponsor? and that wasnt cheap and taky just a mistake hundredsof horse people competing make every week. 
  as someone else said the Mail readers are now coupling this with the other big horse stories they have heard in recent years David Mcpherson for one and another covered by the Mail was William and Pippa Funnells marital hiccup in 2004. People have long memories where scandal is concerened and i should think there are a great number of their readers who are now firmly convinced that showjumping is populated by chavs and chavettes with their brains in their knicker/pants.  Avery small minority might think its amusing and decide to go to hickstead to see these girls in person but i shouldnt think ebnouh to make a significant differnece on the figures.
  by the way did you see the picture of matt i put on picture gallery for you saturday


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## severnmiles (22 July 2008)

I don't believe so Lucretia, any good businessman will invest in anything that is in the public eye and being talked about.

You only have to look at a going off the rails Britney Spears' album sales to prove it is not a myth.

Currently she has no new music out and suddenly she is not so often in the papers or on the news...clever marketing huh?


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## The Voice (22 July 2008)

Whilst I think everyone agrees that the pictures may not have been the classiest they seem to have done the trick and generated the much needed publicity that is needed for the sport.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/racing/showjumping-gets-sexy-873762.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/racin...wds-873761.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/2443561/Showjumping-is-sexed-up.html

When did showjumping or a particular show get this much 'exposure'?

The best class I have ever seen is the Hamburg speed derby where they introduced each rider and played a themed tune when the rider was in the ring. The crowd really got into it and it had a fantatic atmosphere. The Chester show seems like it is going to be run along the same lines which will be brilliant  for supporters as well as encouraging people who bet on horses, to go along and have a bet. If shows can be run along the lines of going along, having a good time and having a flutter, surely this is better than going along to shows which are boring and have as much atmosphere as the moon. If more sponsorship is available with better price money, then we will start seeing the return of the worlds best riders, which is what we are lacking now, and produces the classes that we all want to see.

Cricket is the dullest sport going, but they have adapted it, made it interesting and turned it into a commercial success. This is what showjumping has got to do to survive.


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## lucretia (22 July 2008)

but her sales are down since she started gettting all the bad press and thats also the reason there is no new music, the record companies are not interestedin investing in her. 
  so for her bad publicity has been exactly that as it was for Michael jackson if you wish to use musicians as an example. The famous united colours of benetton campaign that used bill boards of a baby so freshly boen it was covered in blood and mucus certainly got the whole country talking, and nearly put benetton out of business when the stores were boycotted til the picture was withdrawn. all publicity is good publicity if your only purpose is too be famous for being famous but jade goody is another who might now realise  in business it isnt. 
  if all publicity was good then politians would never have to resign when their torrid secrets are found out, spin doctors would not have a job and marketing employees could stop thinking hard about PR campaigns and just use sex and shock tactics for everything.  Howmany people carriers would have been sold if the ads featued skimply clad woman instead of families having a nice day out but i bet a page three type picture of jordan sitting on the bonnet a renault espace with everything revealed would certainly have been talked about while the yummy mummies all trotted down to Peugot. 
  Two of the major sponsors or european showjumping, Rolex and Longines, would be horrified if their official sponsored rider had posed in a similar fashion. 
  I will be spending most of this week at hickstead though, where i am sure you are aware they are looking for a major sponsor, a fact they publised before these pictures were published. i shall be interested to find out if they have had any offers since these pictures came out and be sure to let you know if i do.


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## lucretia (22 July 2008)

and actually i totaly agree with all the other stuff they are thinking of doing and what you have said about it   but notice that none of those articles uses the offending pictures and i think the one of the three riders standing together is much better anyway. 
  also both those papers have  a dedicated equestrian columist and regularly feature horsey stories in their sports pages. So far the papers that are not horsey have not picked it up in a major way and those are the ones they need to get on board. the telegraph, mail and independent, are preaching to many of the converted.
    i suspect that (despite the awful pictures) those particular papers would have run this story as it fits in well with covering hickstead which they will both be doing.


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## allijudd (22 July 2008)

oopss!..

i read it wrong and read 21 stone...whoops..

however that is just so wrong....


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## severnmiles (22 July 2008)

We all think its bad publicity but look at it from Joe Publics point of view.

Girls Aloud - Popular with young girls... yes ... classy?  No!

Jordan - Popular ... yes... In her former(present?) days could hardly be called classy.

Joe Public isn't classy, you only have to go to a nightclub to see how classy the nation has become  
	
	
		
		
	


	





You may all deny it but at the end of the day, sex sells.  Look at chocolate, often sold on sex, even DFS have had some  
	
	
		
		
	


	




 adverts in the past.


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## CharCharSlide (22 July 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
Whilst I think everyone agrees that the pictures may not have been the classiest they seem to have done the trick and generated the much needed publicity that is needed for the sport.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/racing/showjumping-gets-sexy-873762.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/racin...wds-873761.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/2443561/Showjumping-is-sexed-up.html

When did showjumping or a particular show get this much 'exposure'? 

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you hit it spot on! Non horsey friends who i've known all my life are suddenly interested in showjumping because its in the papers - and not just the one with Georgie and Laura's pictures! the publicity is definately gaining interest (granted lucretia - not all of it good) and hopefully if we could put in a good performance at hickstead and bring some medals home from beijing then I think it will become alot more noticed by the public.


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## BlackDiamond (22 July 2008)

They look atrocious!!


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## skewbaldpony (23 July 2008)

they look rubbish and will be the laughing stock of serious showjumping the world over.
lowest common denominator, the kind of people who think they look sexy in their shabby knickers wouldn't be able to follow the sport anyway on account of the adding up required to understand what's going on!


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## H's mum (23 July 2008)

PMSL Jiffy!
Oh the mind boggles!!! 
	
	
		
		
	


	




Kate x


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## H's mum (23 July 2008)

...try telling that to Ratners...


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## tiffany111 (24 July 2008)

Post removed by HHO Admin


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## whosthedaddy (24 July 2008)

As a rule I am not an individual who is normally drawn to horse related sports but have been given this website by colleagues due to  the media attention regarding the two girls featured in the Sunday Mail/Telegraph/Independant and other newspapers this week.  Firstly I find questionable the verbal interactive conduct from others who I can only assume are  competitors in this sport - it takes the meaning of the word jealousy to a new level.   I really question where the stand point and support for this sport comes from.  I feel that some of the comments and statements made in this forum are individual verbal assaults and wonder if or when these statements will be challenged and can the individuals making such statements substatiate them?  If this is not the case I can only assume that the next law suit I read about in the Telegraph will be between 'show jumpers'.  As a first timer on this site I can only give my comments:-  Neither girls to my mind look trashy or tarty.  The photos shown on the internet and in various papers shown to me by my staff show no more flesh than most of you would see on a night out or by some of the youngsters walking our streets.  The fact that the media have chosen to show two very attractive young ladies in attire not normally known to your world seems to disgust the majority of you.  Why?  It seems to me 'the majority' are the small, narrow minded individuals in this instance.  I was shown the photos because as an international marketing company looking toward 2012 we are always looking for new ideas/talent/and a marketable product.  These girls have all the qualities and we will be following this up further.  It appears that most who have posted comments are female - some it is hard to decide - I have read all of them as we obviously have to be very careful who we choose to market our products.  In this case I have decided that apart from the negative comments sent by female writers there is no harm done and after all - any media publicity puts you in the eye of the public, which is exactly what it has done for showjumping -a sport we would not normally consider!


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## Weezy (24 July 2008)

You have TOTALLY missed the point of most flybynite - the thing most of us have an issue with is that the styling is APPALLING, nothing more, nothing less.  There is no jealousy going on - granted, most of us would give our eye teeth to have a figure like the girls have - we are just watching out for the girls and our sport more than anything.

If you think the photos are classy then that is your prerogative, most don't and the majority of the gen public who spend money, compete, support and spend money is female, so female perception is absolutely key.

Black hot pants - there wouldn't have been this outcry I don't think - cheap knicks, everyone cringes.  The poses are wrong, the styling is wrong, the girls are RIGHT.

I see one comment that could be classed as a verbal assault, the rest of the thread just cements the fact that the shoot could have been done in a FAR better way.


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## lucretia (24 July 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
  I feel that some of the comments and statements made in this forum are individual verbal assaults and wonder if or when these statements will be challenged and can the individuals making such statements substatiate them?  If this is not the case I can only assume that the next law suit I read about in the Telegraph will be between 'show jumpers'.  As a first timer on this site I can only give my comments:-  Neither girls to my mind look trashy or tarty.  The photos shown on the internet and in various papers shown to me by my staff show no more flesh than most of you would see on a night out or by some of the youngsters walking our streets.  The fact that the media have chosen to show two very attractive young ladies in attire not normally known to your world seems to disgust the majority of you.  Why?  It seems to me 'the majority' are the small, narrow minded individuals in this instance.  I was shown the photos because as an international marketing company looking toward 2012 we are always looking for new ideas/talent/and a marketable product.  These girls have all the qualities and we will be following this up further.  It appears that most who have posted comments are female - some it is hard to decide - I have read all of them as we obviously have to be very careful who we choose to market our products.  In this case I have decided that apart from the negative comments sent by female writers there is no harm done and after all - any media publicity puts you in the eye of the public, which is exactly what it has done for showjumping -a sport we would not normally consider! 

[/ QUOTE ]

are you having a laugh? if this is your opinion on the photos, the comments on this forum and the public's reaction to them, you are no more involved with an international marketing company than i am with NASA. Unless it is international bad taste you market. 

    i must suppose you also work in some capacity for the BSJA.


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## cottoneyedjoe (24 July 2008)

Funny thing is that I was most impressed that their legs looked quite tanned.  That shows it not real - 99% of riders, have very brown top halves, and milk bottles for legs!


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## BBH (25 July 2008)

I'm always suspicious of one post people, as said before, coming on here to defend the indefencable, you are clearly a man as only a man would assume all  negative comments are only made because 'woman are jealous'. You clearly have no business acumen cos no marketing dept would be interested in this association of their products / services . In fact your defence is ridiculous. You are prob OH of one of the girls in fact.

What you have clearly missed is that people give honest feedback because we care about the sport and this has been an unfortunate  PR stunt.

PS are all 100+ comments on this thread all jealous woman then cos your views are clearly isolated.


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## _April_ (25 July 2008)

I don't think they are that bad at all. 

Black hotpants would have looked much better though.  The white knickers are a bit wierd looking.


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