# OMG Geograph



## barbaraNcolin (23 October 2008)

Just read the news story on the front page about people taking photos of horses this year, someone seems to think it may be down to this website. Have done a search of my area to make sure there aren't pictures of my horses on here. 

Surely this is something to be concerned about, especially in the current economic climate and the current spate of thefts?


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## blackcob (23 October 2008)

My horse isn't on there thankfully, but there are a number of pictures of the fields immediately surrounding hers and very detailed ones of the village that she's stabled in, including pictures of the livery yard entrance. 

Not sure what to make of it to be honest.


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## peanut (23 October 2008)

Do you mean HH front page? How do we do a search?

Sorry if I'm being thick!


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## barbaraNcolin (23 October 2008)

yup, HH web front page. on geograoh there's a search bit, i just put my village name in there to see what came up.


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## MurphysMinder (23 October 2008)

Just done a search, thank heavens mine aren't on there but there are quite a few horses locally, with detailed descriptions of where the fields are.  Think this is very worrying, especially as now it has been publicised more and more people will hear about it


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## Skhosu (23 October 2008)

Very odd..my house is on there with caption and all, not entirely sure what to make of it tbh :S, no actual horses in photos though. Feels a bit weird that someone was wandering roung taking photos


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## MissDeMeena (23 October 2008)

I've had a good look, but can't seem to find what you're all talking about .. could someone poss. link to it!!???
thankyou!


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## carys220 (23 October 2008)

the road that our farm is on is on there, looking in the opposite direction luckily but a farm I know in Cheshire is on there and you have to walk down a private track to get to that field. 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 don't recognise the name of the person who holds the copyright for the photo.


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## carys220 (23 October 2008)

http://www.geograph.org.uk


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## MurphysMinder (23 October 2008)

http://www.geograph.org.uk  Go to search and put in keyword horses and your postcode.

Snap Tri konj


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## carys220 (23 October 2008)

I've just found a pic of the lorry park at at EC, about 20 wagons and trailers on full view!!! 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 How are they getting away with this and how do we complain???


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## MissDeMeena (23 October 2008)

the village where i live is on there, and it's so remote that not even some locals in the next door village have heard of it..
this guy has done some serrious research 
	
	
		
		
	


	




thankfull there's nothing of my fields or my house.


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## BroadfordQueen (23 October 2008)

Eeeep!
Typed in my town and a picture of my house is on there.
Luckily you can't see the horses...
Thats scary


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## chunklovescooks (23 October 2008)

http://www.facebook.com/groups/create.php?customize=&amp;gid=30912838537#/group.php?gid=30912838537


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## Irishcobs (23 October 2008)

Luckily none of my horses but some detailed pics of the village they are in and of my village. A friends horse in on there saying underneath 'Horses are herd animals and are naturally sociable. Anyone keeping horses will know it is an act of cruelty to keep a horse alone in a field, another horse is best, cows will do. This one has to make do with sheep which are better than nothing.' 
	
	
		
		
	


	




Luckily that horse is no longer kept there.


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## molehill (23 October 2008)

Help.My horse is on there with my address.
What do i do?panic


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## chunklovescooks (23 October 2008)

Ring them right away! if they are open


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## molehill (23 October 2008)

I cant find a number


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## kirstyfk (23 October 2008)

There is a picture of my next door neighbour's lorry! Fortunately it is blocking the view of ours. We live down a old farm lane and he has take pictures of our houses.The photographer doesn't even live in any of the houses!


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## chunklovescooks (23 October 2008)

I cant either i'm afraid, i dont know what to do! has anyone seen the picture titled "a nice collection of wagons and horseboxes" silly fool


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## carys220 (23 October 2008)

http://www.geograph.org.uk/contact.php

Only way of contacting them it would seem. There is a link on each picture where you are ale to contact the photographer.


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## carys220 (23 October 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
I cant either i'm afraid, i dont know what to do! has anyone seen the picture titled "a nice collection of wagons and horseboxes" silly fool 

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup, that's the same one I saw!


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## carys220 (23 October 2008)

Anyone fancy reading this pdp on their rights to take photographs of other people's property?

http://www.sirimo.co.uk/media/UKPhotographersRights.pdf


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## chunklovescooks (23 October 2008)

Yeah, I'll have a gander, give me a few mins. I dont like this one bit.


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## chunklovescooks (23 October 2008)

It's basicly saying that everyone has the right to take photo's on others land AS LONG AS THEY HAVE PERMISSION, if they touch anything (resting on walls/fences etc) they can be done for tresspassing.


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## molehill (23 October 2008)

Have just sent an email,and will be contacting the police over it.
It is so stupid of them.
Surely they cant be putting peoples horses etc,with address on for everyone to see.surely there must be a law against this??
I am now in a panic,makes my horse an easy target.She is coloured and a sort after type,along with a few others here.


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## chunklovescooks (23 October 2008)

Relax, call the police, express your concearn, and remember this website has been open for a while. I'm sure the appropriate action will be taken. If not, i will be ringing them. I'll find a number. Dont know how tho.


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## chunklovescooks (23 October 2008)

The owner is called Paul Dixon, dont know any contact details as yet.


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## Irishcobs (23 October 2008)

Haven't read it all but surely there is a difference between taking a photo and sticking it on a website, with an address for all too see?


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## chunklovescooks (23 October 2008)

Yes, this needs to be clarified to the owner, i have messaged him using the following link; http://www.geograph.org.uk/usermsg.php?to=2

S


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## molehill (23 October 2008)

it even got a map reference.Helpful guy


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## molehill (23 October 2008)

Have just phoned the police and its not illegal to put a photograph of someones horse,with an address for all to see on a public place.
Lets help the thieves?


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## chunklovescooks (23 October 2008)

Yeah, i'll tell them my horses name, and where my rugs and tack is kept also.


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## molehill (23 October 2008)

Im so angry,and worried.
I cant believe they are with in the law doing this?


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## jules89 (23 October 2008)

Ive just hada look, having just read H&amp;H in the tub

Luckily my house/horses aren't on there, but there are some pics close by, 

It is so scary thinking someone was closeby


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## barbaraNcolin (23 October 2008)

In th artical it says that they've recently had only one complaint about a picture of horses, which was removed, but it's probably because not many people who's horse is on there knew it existed!


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## chunklovescooks (23 October 2008)

Well Ive complained and made a facebook group!


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## chunklovescooks (23 October 2008)

Photographs on a geographical website are not the cause of horse
thefts. Highly organised criminal gangs are. You can read about their
modus operandi here:

http://www.ukhorsewatch.org.uk/Information_sheet_No_7.pdf

That document contains a lot of good information on how to protect
yourself and your livestock. Amateur photographs present no threat at
all to you.


Kind regards,

Paul Dixon
Geograph Developer


Just got that e-mail off paul, i'm about to go off on one in my reply.


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## carys220 (23 October 2008)

Cheeky little sod. I would ask him how he would like it if we took pictures of his child with details of where to find them so pedophiles could find it or a picture of his house with address and details of how best to break in!!!!


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## chunklovescooks (23 October 2008)

Good idea, i quite fancy a new TV


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## LCobby (23 October 2008)

Those are photos taken from a public road or path, but there are millions of satelllite views - these show inside property boundaries, parking of vehicle, stables, horse, trailere, gates, access routes etc
More than could be seen by any of the photopgrahers,
Just tpye your postcode in to
http://maps.live.com/
and click on Birsd Eye View


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## chunklovescooks (23 October 2008)

lordelph@gmail.com  got his email, cheers chunk! HOORAH!


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## michaelj (23 October 2008)

How tempted am I to spam-bot his email?


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## molehill (23 October 2008)

They wont delete the photo of my horse,
Have had much the same email back as you Chunckslovescooks.
He also said that it didnt include my address,but it DID,and it gives a grid reference.
How the hell can they get away with it.Not sure what to do now.Surely i have a right to say if a photo of my horse and my address goes on a website?


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## chunklovescooks (23 October 2008)

If we look it from another angle; how would you like it if i were to post images of your family, and your address, how best to break in. By posting images of horses and other POI's of criminals, they can start examining the surrounding area before they even get there! I think your unwillingness to co-operate with the equestrian community for the sake of a "game" is childish!

Stephen.

Just sent that, bet i get a reply like "you fiend! no one will stop my catalog of images! MWAHAHA".. everythings possible..


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## carys220 (23 October 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
Those are photos taken from a public road or path, but there are millions of satelllite views - these show inside property boundaries, parking of vehicle, stables, horse, trailere, gates, access routes etc
More than could be seen by any of the photopgrahers,
Just tpye your postcode in to
http://maps.live.com/
and click on Birsd Eye View 

[/ QUOTE ]

True, but  think it's the fact that there are close up views of horses and property on on this site with addresses which means that someone could feasibly 'steal to order' from just seeing pictures.  Plus at least 10 of the photos I looked at from places I knew where taken from private access roads or private land.


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## carys220 (23 October 2008)

tallyho_two, use chunk's reply to reply to the person who took the pic of your horse. don't give up, it's your bloody property!


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## michaelj (23 October 2008)

I tahught we got over the whole its gangs doing it! Sheesh, this guy is a sod! Ameteur photographs... SHOWING OUR HORSEBOXES AND HORSES ALL NICELY GRID REFERENCED FOR BRITAINS FINEST! ...How kind. surely if we dont want pictures of our land, they have to take them off?


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## chunklovescooks (23 October 2008)

Nope, there is no law against it.. its silly i know. I suppose i'll carry on bugging the guy until he gives in, or go to him with a petition.


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## molehill (23 October 2008)

Have just sent an email to the man the actually took the photo.See what happens there.Im not going to give up.They cant put my horse and address for everyone to see without my permission


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## chunklovescooks (23 October 2008)

Legally, they can, however, any good law-abiding citizen would remove it!

S


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## molehill (23 October 2008)

He is clearly not that by the tone in his last email.
Now trying to think up a reply to him,but im getting to tierd to think straight.Think it may have to a tomorrow job


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## Minnies_Mum (23 October 2008)

Problem is, most people would not know about this website, but if a lot of fuss is made about it, the thieves will get to hear about it too and start using it, even if they were not doing so before.  We might be creating more of a problem for ourselves by giving them ideas.


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## chunklovescooks (23 October 2008)

Are you emailing Paul or the photographer?


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## molehill (23 October 2008)

I have just emailed the photographer and he says he will get it removed.


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## chunklovescooks (23 October 2008)

Where have you seen any evidence it is used by criminal gangs? It's
all speculation.

There's far more intelligence available on horse related forums and
boards, why not close those?

Paul 

Just got that off him.. ignorant sod, I reply They offer decent advice and knowledge to the equine community. Geograph doesn't. They don't give locations of horses, farms and livestock. Geograph does.

Steve.

Now the wait for him to try and turn it on me again!


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## molehill (23 October 2008)

I do agree minis-mum,but if horse and hound hadnt of done a feature on it i wouldnt of known that my address and horse was on there,and couldnt put the situation right


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## Cuffey (23 October 2008)

Found my horses there and a friends but didnt know whether to post on here or not so didnt
I got the same reply from Paul last week as shown in the H&amp;H article
Definitely a funny feeling my horses were pictured on Xmas Day and I can see them from the house but dont remember seeing anyone walking but probably either cooking or eating!!
The caption is totally wrong but the circle on the OS map is spot on where they were grazing.
My friend actually knows who pictured her horses and he didnt ask her permission to put them on the site. She was furious.


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## sarahrees (23 October 2008)

just checked thank god mine arent there my pony club is though


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## dun_in (23 October 2008)

Ordnance Survey sponsor them.  Could be worth complaining to them.

Luckily I can't find any of the yards that I know.  However I can find my local hospital, car garage, dental surgery etc etc etc.

They had photographic diarrhoea.


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## chunklovescooks (23 October 2008)

0.0   You can post an image of my dog if you happen to photograph it from a
public vantage point. Your comparison however is a little wrong. And
actionable.

&gt; By posting images of
&gt; horses and other POI's of criminals, they can start examining the
&gt; surrounding area before they even get there! I think your unwillingness to
&gt; co-operate with the equestrian community for the sake of a "game" is
&gt; childish!

The equestrian community does a fine job of providing that
intelligence in far more up to date manner than Geograph. Let's take
the House and Hound forum, because I'm an avid reader now. Check the
classifieds section. I chose a horse a random, got a phone number in
Bedfordshire. Googled it, found the address. Checked aerial photo of
house on Google Maps. Checked prices of recent house sales on that
street at houseprices.co.uk - seemed an affluent area. Also got
another google result with the full name and email address of the
owner, with partial photograph and other useful info. From that I got
his approximate age and the names of his wife and other house
occupants from the electoral roll.

Sadly no picture on Geograph but more than enough information for a
little social engineering.

I know I've no chance of winning you over here, but I'm trying to
illustrate that rather more intelligence is out there than you might
imagine, and I would bet that a well motivated criminal gang has even
more sources at their disposal.


Paul

Just got that off him. Does he know all owners dont keep horses at their house?


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## carys220 (23 October 2008)

Does he realise that we don't plan on selling our horses so their and our details are not in the classified section!!!!! D'OH!!!! IDIOT!! And I hope he reads this!!!


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## chunklovescooks (23 October 2008)

Yeah, we put them on Geograph to be stolen, DUH


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## molehill (23 October 2008)

I cant believe him.
Why cant he see that what he is doing is causing distress and worry to some people.


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## chunklovescooks (23 October 2008)

Tri, where abouts in w/yorks are you? no postcodes or grid references please!


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## carys220 (23 October 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
I cant believe him.
Why cant he see that what he is doing is causing distress and worry to some people. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Because he is a person without respect for other people's wishes.


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## carys220 (23 October 2008)

Keighley. Horses are further out towards Harden.


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## chunklovescooks (23 October 2008)

Ah nice one. Yeah, he seems to have little respect for others, then again, photographing other peoples property all the time must get lonly!


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## molehill (23 October 2008)

Thankyou all for helping me.I will let you know when it gets removed.Fingers crossed it will!


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## Leah3horses (23 October 2008)

I've posted on the Geograph site to say that insults never help anything..I'm going to get shot down in flames here but can we get this in proportion please...where is the evidence that Geograph is going to encourage horse thieves? How many people on H&amp;H found their horse by responding to a picture on a website in the first place?! 

Yes horse thieves are out there, they always have been, sad to say. I believe there is room for horse sites, Geograph and similar to co exist. Google Earth has been around for years, horses can clearly be seen there...and on postcards, calendars,holiday brochures etc and in depth here on H&amp;H and hundreds of other horse websites and magazines. Not to mention cctv in more urban areas.

Objectivity is quite sparse on H&amp;H at the best of times...think we need to keep it calm and think things through.Knee jerk reactions only cause hysteria. I have considered how I'd feel if I saw my horses on Geograph (yes I've looked, they aren't there but there are some lovely pics of very local countryside).I do worry about horse thieves but this hasn't made me worry any more...my security is as good as I can make it. 

The day horses are airbrushed out of photos of the countryside is the day paranoia and sensationalism win.


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## sash (23 October 2008)

this is outrageous!!! i've just checked and he has walked up our private drive which has a gate and has about 3 signs saying private he even took a picture of a private sign with one of the cows behind it!!!!! this is scary!


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## chunklovescooks (23 October 2008)

Noone said they were encouraging them, infact, quite the opposite, just the fact up-close pictures and postcodes of other people livestock... isnt right. It could be used as a tool by theives.


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## LCobby (23 October 2008)

very true Leah!
I can see my horses, horsebox, etc on Windows Local , and all their surroundings, in fine detail, which are not visible for a road or footpath.  My name and address is printed in full in show catalogues, from which people could get my horsebox reg no..and know how many days I am likely to be away.
More current and timely info on property and location than a photo would show.


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## carys220 (23 October 2008)

I think horses should have to give written permission to be shown in photos, just like humans!


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## EstherYoung (23 October 2008)

I find geograph really interesting but then I'm a sad map obsessive. 

It's meant to be a historical record of our surroundings - there's old pics there too so that you can compare how things have changed. All very innocent, and I find it all fascinating. In the same way as you might buy a book about 'Yorkshire from the air' or 'Yorkshire in pictures' and find a pic of your house in it. And in the same way that when I was a kid at school we went round documenting the local area.

If people have been tresspassing to take photos then there's a valid grievance but as an exercise to document living history it's absolutely fascinating. 

Geograph has been going for a good few years now. It's also dead useful for checking out new bridleway terrain. I'm probably going to be shot down in flames but I'd like to say thank you to the vast majority of geograph contributors for a really useful project. And if there are some that are inappropriate, you always catch more flies with honey so the comments about rudeness go both ways.

If you put your town/village or even road name into google you'll find loads of pics, not just geograph. Ramblers take pics of their walks, often through fields with livestock in them, complete with a map. Heck, I take photos of my rides and put them on t'interweb. My neighbour is a professional photographer and he often takes pics of pastoral country scenes for use in magazines. Should we ban photos altogether?


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## YorksG (24 October 2008)

You do not legally need permission of people to publish their photo. You do not have any say in where your image appearss. There may be issues about the photo itself, but look how many papers show photos without permission.


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## Vicki_Krystal (24 October 2008)

There is photo of the yard where my horses are kept - the photographer has taken it from the road - fair enough.

What is concerning though is that his comment under the pic says,
 " This farm always appears empty when i go by" 

did he really have to put that?

Its not the fact the photo is there - its an old farm, i expect there to be photos of it - but why mention the security??


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## carys220 (24 October 2008)

I would just like to point out that this thread came about because of this news story:
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/397/270621.html

It's not just us on here that are going mad about it!


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## xspiralx (24 October 2008)

I feel like people are getting totally unnecessarily hysterical about this.

Fair enough if somebody has trespassed to take the picture then that is out of order.

However simply pictures taken of your horse that can be seen from a public road or footpath is nothing more than any potential horse thief could see for themselves on a walk. People post pictures and information on here that would be enough to find the horses in question with a little digging - anytime you go to a show or on a hack somebody could see you and follow you back to wherever you keep your horse. 

I honestly don't think that this website is going to make a great deal of difference to the chances of your horse being stolen.


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## Arabelle (24 October 2008)

I agree with the voices of reason that have started to emerge.  I found the site fascinating and a potentially valuable piece of social history.  

I appreciate people's concern for their horses, of course I do.  However, I did have to smirk at the outraged tone of people whose houses were photographed. I don't know about you, but I don't have an invisibility shield for my house.  In fact, anyone walking along the street can see it - what an invasion of my privacy!

Joking aside, I do think this has to be seen in proportion with the wealth of information that is already on the web.  
A


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## chunklovescooks (24 October 2008)

Right, if people can see your property from ground level, able to see entrances/exits/camera's or security features, they can plan whatever they like before they even get there! Seeing it from BEV is totally different! There is no need for pictures and postcodes of horses, or private property! owners should be asked surely? I'm sure the security services would be very interested as there is pictures of the MI6 building up there! Its a terrorist's HAVEN!


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## molehill (24 October 2008)

My house is also on there,but i dont have a problem with that,its my horse that i have a problem with.
I actually quiet enjoyed looking at the site and photos


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## trundle (24 October 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
I'm sure the security services would be very interested as there is pictures of the MI6 building up there! Its a terrorist's HAVEN! 

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, for god's sake, get a grip.  I used to work in  an office with a lovely view of the MI6 building, I could have sat at my desk with a pair of binoculars and watched all their comings and goings. The whole point is, everyone knows where Vauxhall Bridge House is, its NOT a secret, and rightly so. You can buy postcards with pictures of VBH. If a terrorist wants to have a look at the MI6 HQ, he can buy some sarnies and sit on a bench the other side of the river and admire it. 

I think you are getting the tiniest bit hysterical over this.


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## Ebbo (24 October 2008)

I don't see the problem! God it's the nanny-state gone mad! If people want to nick your horses, they are going to nick them whether they are on a website or not! How many people do you see driving cars when you go for a ride? Well any one of those could be driving around to find out which stables are where - and how many footpaths run through/close by stables and horse fields?


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## carys220 (24 October 2008)

Well I don't know about your house but I seem to have an invisibility cloak....so I'll say it again.


THIS THREAD STARTED BECAUSE OF A NEWS STORY!
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/397/270621.html

It's not just us 'hysterical' owners!!!!!


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## chunklovescooks (24 October 2008)

Indeed, i dont just belive any old hoo-harr but this is really quite worrying!  Its not hysteria, you would rather people can search openly for farms and land (photographed) with OUR horses on than being able to tell people yourself where you keep your horses, the fact is that this site makes it far too easy to look at horses and farms to plan a theft, or not just that, but premesis of shops and other buildings.

S

There's even banks on there!


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## sunflower (24 October 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
Does he realise that we don't plan on selling our horses so their and our details are not in the classified section!!!!! D'OH!!!! IDIOT!! And I hope he reads this!!! 
	
	
		
		
	


	





[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe not but some people on here post far more detailed information then can be found in the HHO classified section or on the geograph site. Photos of their horses clearly showing where they are, where they hack (or happily telling people where the lovely hacking photo was taken) what livery yard they are at, when they are usually there etc. Not to mention all the hypothetical 'how much' posts to give a nice idea of their value. OK, so the geograph may give a grid reference but it's really not that difficult to work out the location of a horse from the information posted on here by some people.


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## toffeesmarty (24 October 2008)

This site appears to have answered the questions earlier this year regarding the mysery photographer, which is a bit of a relief. What those of you who have pics of your horses on the site should do is a personal decision, but I do agree it is worrying.
However, it also answers what the mystery man with a camera was doing outside my children's primary school earlier this year, as yes there is a picture of the school. Not sure what a 1990's primary school is going to add to the historic aspect of the site but it has put my mind at rest that we don't have a resident pervert here!


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## Kenzo (24 October 2008)

OMG our livery yard is on there!


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## lachlanandmarcus (24 October 2008)

The info can surely be gotten by walking past, but how much easier for horse theives and burglars that they no longer have to make the effort, nor to risk being challenged by me or my Doberman. 

If people want to take photos for their own use thats OK, but its not OK to post them on a public forum, my horse is my copyright not theirs, as it were!!

If any photographer refuses to remove an image when requested I suggest you go to their property and take about 50 photos of every aspect of it and post them on geograph along with details of when the house appears to be empty etc. 

Also I wonder what the police's view on it is. 

Google earth has lots of detail too - and it is also causing problems eg properties with swimming pools being invaded by gangs.

I dont think these sites should show such identifiable detail, the downside is bigger than the upside. 

The problem is that its unlikely we would ever be able to prove it given the crappy clear up rates for burglary.


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## carys220 (24 October 2008)

OK so let me get this right - there are a load of horses in the field next to mine - I don't know the owner but i like taking pictures of them as they are cute. It was my understanding that I wasn't allowed to post those pictures on HHO without permission of the owner? s this just an HHO rule then? Or can I in fact post those pictures?


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## michaelj (24 October 2008)

I think the problem we all have with this is not that our horses or friends horses are on there, but the fact that the are up there with a pin-point location. People can come and steal our horses, but why bother going round looking for a nice one to steal when you can type in the key-word ponies or horses on here? not hysteria. This is for EBBO!


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## hairycob (24 October 2008)

Go on multimap, look at aerial photos &amp; you will be able to see horses, lorries, outbuildings complete with access points. I really don't see that geograph gives a fraction of that info


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## chunklovescooks (24 October 2008)

Yes, aerial don't give a sense of proportion, point of view images do.


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## Merlotmonster (24 October 2008)

I have checked to see if my house is there. Its not but to be honest, it wouldnt worry me if it was. Its visible from the road and if a burglar targetted it I reckon it wouldnt be because of this site.


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## LCobby (24 October 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
 aerial don't give a sense of proportion, point of view images do. 

[/ QUOTE ]
new ones are even better -  ""Brids Eye View" can even rotate and look at a location from all directions.But use them to yor advatage, - looking at the birds eye view, perhaps a farm track across the field behind you is a weak security point,, for example,  and misses your cctv range.


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## chunklovescooks (24 October 2008)

can they even see the camera's properly mind? The images some photographers are posting are unnecessary! S


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## chunklovescooks (24 October 2008)

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/74563 to me.... That caption is far to imformative, tells you where the farm is, and from that the "criminal" could see; the barn is behind the boxes, i may be seen entering from that angle, there seems to be an office at the far right of the image, i will have to come from the other side in case i get seen. The fact is, criminals can do their proper research from farms using this, could they even see where the barn door is from a BEV? And would they notice the floodlight on the top of the barn door?

S


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## toffeesmarty (24 October 2008)

The picture of horseboxes, trailers along with the map reference is very stupid. What is the point?


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## chunklovescooks (24 October 2008)

Exactly my point, pictures with historic or geographic relevance, fair enough, but why, just why.


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## Vicki_Krystal (24 October 2008)

i have no problem with the pics - both of livery yards where several people i know horses are kept - its the captions i dont get - why advertise a lack of security?

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/36995

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/47537


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## chunklovescooks (24 October 2008)

OMG! Geo Grapher on facebook, no doubt a member of geograph reported the image i used on my group about geograph, it was removed, does this mean i can say  taking pictures of my horses isn't acceptable, go to "The internet regulator" and get it taken down?

S

BTW i totally agree, LOADS of the captions are un-necessary, nothing we can do as people though 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 do you think H&amp;H will run a story on this next week?


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## chunklovescooks (24 October 2008)

Is geograph counted as invasion of privacy for the pictures including residential accommodation?

S


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## carys220 (25 October 2008)

Has anyone else noticed you can search for a particular breed of horse too? My OH pointed this out - if you type in haflinger you get a list of locations where you can get a haflinger! Same with shetland pony......so you can search for one you like, find out where it is an then go and steal it!


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## EstherYoung (25 October 2008)

If you copied the picture without permission or crediting the photographer then it was breach of copyright which is illegal and that's why you will have been asked to take it down (copyright info for the pics is attached to each page - there are different levels of copyright and some contributors are more copyright conscious than others).

Just a though. Which of these two approaches do you think would have the most results:

1 - Screaming about how appalling some of the captions are, posting links to the site all over t'interweb, posting links to individual pics that would have otherwise been buried in over a million pictures, sending mails of abuse to the photographers, increasing web traffic to the site and to those pictures of concern, telling everyone on t'interweb how to search geograph for dodgy stuff, etc etc.

2 - Quietly and tactfully e-mailing the photographers of the very very few 'iffy' comments on the site, being nice as pie, but asking them if they could possibly change the comment on their pic due to the security risk.

As I said before, you catch more flies with honey. Someone on another forum used approach number 2 and lo, the caption was changed immediately.


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## RachelFerd (25 October 2008)

You are all a bunch of fruit loops!

This geograph site seems like a lovely idea, full of well meaning people who obviously enjoy the english countryside and taking photos of it.

I simply can't believe the reactions on here!

It is not illegal to take photographs of anything that can be seen from a public footpath or bridlepath. If you are that concerned about your horses being nicked, why not keep them in a concrete bunker underground with security guards at the entrance?

This website is not the only one linking photographs to locations - panoramia is available on googlemaps showing photographs linked to places, and flickr also has a functionality of being able to denote the location (down to the smallest denomination) of the photograph. As previously mentioned maps.live.com also shows a lot of areas (mainly in the SE) in pin point detail from an Ariel photograph.


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## hairycob (25 October 2008)

I expect Farmkey &amp; Freezemark are gearing up for a big increase in business again.

A Police Officer friend once told me that the people who nick horses tack etc know what's in every tack room in their area better than the owners do!

If you are worried about theft there is plenty you can do to protect yourself.
Freezemark your horse - very few freezemarked horses are stolen &amp; the majority of those are recovered. Few unfreezemarked horses that are stolen are recovered. Freezemarked horses can be pulled from sales, how is someone going to spot your chipped horse going through a sale.
Get your tack postcode marked &amp; keep it in a secure place.
Mark your rugs with white/brightly coloured paint.
Postcode mark your trailer /lorry.
Mark everything, even buckets  - if anyone is casing your yard they assume valuables/horses are marked &amp; move on elsewhere.
Remember if a policemen stops someone with a van load of tack &amp; it's not marked there is NOTHING they can do - that distinctive scuff mark will mean zippo in court. But if there is even a brush that is marked they can start to ask questions. Micro chipping is great but the Bobby out in the patrol car doesn't have a reader &amp; he isn't going to take anybody in to the station without a reason one postcode marked item gives him that reason so thieves don't want to be caught with them.
Don't lose sleep worrying over photos on the web - get busy with a paint brush &amp; protect yourself.


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## chunklovescooks (25 October 2008)

Sorry Rachael, why should we have to lock our horses away because of this site? I'm not saying "SHUT IT DOWN ITS TERRIBLE" but a fair few of the captions are unnecessary! S


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## carys220 (25 October 2008)

[ QUOTE ]

It is not illegal to take photographs of anything that can be seen from a public footpath or bridlepath.  

[/ QUOTE ]

Taken from a private access road:
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/719049

Taken from private land, and clearly not 'abandoned':
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/719080

These are just a few in my area.

It might be a 'nice' idea to photograph every grid reference in UK but it is for one slightly misguided and as has already been said, why does people's horses and boxes/trailers have to be part of it?


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## EstherYoung (25 October 2008)

Tri_Konj - both those pics are taken from public rights of way. The photogapher was perfectly entitled to be there and take photos.

This site also has photos of your area and is asking for more: http://www.go4awalk.com/walks/placenamewalks.php?placeid=1544 

as does google:
http://images.google.co.uk/images?um=1&a...esden+yorkshire

Incidentally I've just done a search for 'horsebox' on geograph and out of over 1,000,000 pictures it returns 24 hits, of which only two pictures contain horseboxes that look like they may be a permanent fixture. One of these two pictures is 3 years old (and appears to be a trekking centre/stud with its own website showing far more details of the farm than the geograph pic, and also seems to be used as a film set if google is to be believed) and only one was taken earlier this year. A sense of proportion, anyone?


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## carys220 (25 October 2008)

From this news story:
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/article.php?aid=270621&amp;cid=397

 [ QUOTE ]
UK Horsewatch Alliance chairman Garry Porter told H&amp;H: "This would seem to explain the spate of photographers taking pictures of horses this year.

"I would be very concerned if my horse's picture were to appear there. The most commonly stolen ponies are Shetlands and coloureds and these are the ones that catch the photographers' eyes," he added.

Horsewatch advises anyone concerned about pictures on the site to contact Geograph. 

The Horse Trust was shocked to see pictures on the site of horses, ponies and donkeys living at the charity's home of rest in Speen, Buckinghamshire. The charity says the pictures must have been taken on its land.

Horse Trust spokesman Susan Lewis said: "We have had people taking pictures of horses outside visiting hours. 


An H&amp;H reader, who did not want to be named, said: "Essentially, the site is providing any thief with a map of where horses and property are."   

[/ QUOTE ]

So Horsewatch and The Horse Trust are also 'fruit loops' are they???


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## smokeybabes (25 October 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/74563 to me.... That caption is far to imformative, tells you where the farm is, and from that the "criminal" could see; the barn is behind the boxes, i may be seen entering from that angle, there seems to be an office at the far right of the image, i will have to come from the other side in case i get seen. The fact is, criminals can do their proper research from farms using this, could they even see where the barn door is from a BEV? And would they notice the floodlight on the top of the barn door?

S  

[/ QUOTE ] 

Date of picture - 14/10/05 - i'm sure that most of those horseboxes aren't even there now and things have changed!

Smug Oak stables picture - dated 12/08/2005 - again many changes could have occured by now. Though i agree the caption is unnecessary.

I don't think someone would use such old photos to plan their raid cos many things could have changed since then.
It maybe fair to complain about some of the captions where they suggest its abondoned or quiet, but i don't think the photo's themselves pose too much of a risk, especially seeing as some of the pictures are 2-3yrs old.


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## chunklovescooks (25 October 2008)

If you read my later post, i have no problem with the pictures being there, just the unneccessery captions on some of the images. They may be old, but they can still expect what to see on arrival (or get some kind of idea)


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## michaelj (25 October 2008)

Some people annoy me to the point of suicide. You can get these images on live maps, but if you type in horseboxes you do not get a search back with a pin-point location.


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## moomooland (25 October 2008)

Having read all the above posts over the last few days it seems to me that you have all shot yourselves in the foot in a big way!

With your paranoia you have all brought into the spotlight a problem that did not exist.

Some of the photographs you have attached links to are three years old with probably very few hits but now you have placed them in full view of every Tom, Dick &amp; Harry by publishing the links on here even though they were out there on the web i did not know these pictures even existed

As Esther Young stated she did a search for 'horsebox' on Geograph and out of over 1,000,000 pictures (YES 1 MILLION PICTURES) it returns 24 hits, of which only two pictures contain horseboxes that look like they may be a permanent fixture so get real.

As for statements like "OMG our livery yard is on there" so what! its located in a grid square and a prime candidate for showing what's in that particular area 

The Geograph site is a great site with pictures from every aspect of life through out our country so why should the horse community be exempt?

If i were the owners of Geograph i would be seriously thinking about suing Horsewatch and The Horse Trust for slander as they are on very thin ice indeed and have no evidence what so ever that the site has in anyway contributed to the theft of horse's.


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## EstherYoung (25 October 2008)

The only photos of horses near Speen on Geograph are taken from the numerous public footpaths in the area, from what I can see, and are pastoral scenes only. The Horse Trust have their own website with far more detailed photographs of their actual premises than on the geograph pics - just stick them into google images. And they open to the public....


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## carys220 (25 October 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
The only photos of horses near Speen on Geograph are taken from the numerous public footpaths in the area, from what I can see, and are pastoral scenes only. The Horse Trust have their own website with far more detailed photographs of their actual premises on the geograph pics - just stick them into google images. And they open to the public.... 

[/ QUOTE ]

That's because the pictures have been removed by request!! D'oh!  The Horse Trust were angry because the pictures were taken from their own land(PRIVATE PROPERTY!!!!) and not during visiting times, plus some of the horses they have are involved in court cases and their pictures should not be on the internet with details of where they are!!!!


I am going to shout now.

THIS WAS A NEWS STORY IN HORSE &amp; HOUND MAGAZINE! IT IS NOT SOME HYSTERIA THAT WE HAVE MADE UP!!!

Ca everyone hear me? Do you understand??


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## carys220 (25 October 2008)

[ QUOTE ]

If i were the owners of Geograph i would be seriously thinking about suing Horsewatch and The Horse Trust for slander as they are on very thin ice indeed and have no evidence what so ever that the site has in anyway contributed to the theft of horse's. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Slander in the same way that some of the captions state things like 'it's cruel to keep a horse on it's own' and 'the horses can't be very well looked after as there is never anyone at the farm'????????


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## EstherYoung (25 October 2008)

So the Horse Trust asked the photographer nicely that they would prefer any pics that may prejudice a court case not to be on t'net and they took them down? Who'd have thought it 
	
	
		
		
	


	





They do have loads of public footpaths criss crossing their land though. It may be their land but the public have legal access 24/7 and there's no ban on taking photos of pretty ponies in fields. Heck, I've done it myself, if I see a nice shot and I have my camera with me (not Horse Trust ponies, I've never been there).


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## carys220 (25 October 2008)

Oh well don't get me started on the public footpaths and 'right to roam' crap!

Have you actually read this incidentally, anyone?
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/article.php?aid=270621&amp;cid=397


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## RachelFerd (25 October 2008)

well, as it stands public footpaths do allow public access, and there is absolutely no law against taking photos of what you can see from the public footpath.

to complain about it is absolutely insane

if you don't want your horses seen, hide them somewhere entirely secure, or put up with the fact that people enjoy seeing horses in our british countryside and would like to take photos of such a pleasant sight!


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## chunklovescooks (25 October 2008)

Right, I have said it far too many times I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE PICTURES BEING UP THERE! Its the captions, most of which are unnecessary that are clucking me off! 

I don't give a monkey how many pictures you get from google images, THEY DON'T GIVE LOCATIONS!


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## chunklovescooks (25 October 2008)

I don't understand how the pictures and captions help create a historic and geographical project on the internet! Why don't we just all take pictures of our houses?, post them on the internet and tell them where the spare key, or which windows are left slightly ajar. Because we don't want to be easy targets!


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## RachelFerd (25 October 2008)

my point is that on google maps the program 'panoramia' gives image locations, and on flickr many photos are organised by precise location

this is not 'new'!

the captions may be ignorant, but ultimately they seem harmless to me


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## sunflower (25 October 2008)

Yes, I have read the article. It doesn't really seem to contain much in the way of news and is mainly conjecture. It is only the opinion of horsewatch that this site is responsible for the spate of people taking photographs of horses, there is no proof of this. The quote from an un-named H&amp;H reader is ludicrous. I have seen far more detail on the websites of various riding schools and livery yeards - including pictures and handy sections on 'how to find us'. As has already been mentioned this is not the only site to show the location of horses etc, google earth and other sites do the same thing, the only difference is the search facility but again, the information this brings up is not exactly difficult to find using other sources.


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## B_2_B (25 October 2008)

Woah, they have Tommy the shetland a pic from years ago! And the entrance to mossburn, and one of the pigs talking a walk up the road! lol.

Obviously Mossburn is a public place anyway so it's not that concerning, but i wouldn't want my private land, or horses up on the site!


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## druid (25 October 2008)

Oh, my house/yard is right at teh top if you search for our area. Do I care? Not a jot!!


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## rabatsa (26 October 2008)

Some very nice pictures of my area, I am going to see if I can buy some copies for the wall. Some folk get hysterical about nothing much.


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## charlie76 (26 October 2008)

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/915906

These are our shool ponies- BLOODY CHEEK!
And this is our riding school:
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/9721
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/9721

Can you get them to take them off the site at all?


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## moomooland (26 October 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/915906

These are our shool ponies- BLOODY CHEEK!
And this is our riding school:
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/9721
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/9721

Can you get them to take them off the site at all? 

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would you want to take a picture off that has been on the site for over 3 years have you had any problems in all that time?

You have linked even more pictures i did not know exsited talk about paranoia


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## SpottedCat (26 October 2008)

Completely agree with RachelFerd and Druid, this is the most bizarre over-reaction I have ever read on this site (which is saying something LOL). So someone wants to steal (say) a shetland pony....do they spend time surfing the net looking at photos some of which are several years old....or do they go to a local show, check out the ponies, follow someone home who has the sort of thing they are looking for then spend some time casing the joint working out when the place is unattended and what the security is like? Hmmm....I wonder....photos which may or may not show a pony which may or may not be there are more vs a show where you can see several examples of a pony type, follow someone so you know exactly which field it is in and if it looks like a pain to load/handle.......gosh, which method would I choose if I were a thief, I can't imagine....


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## IvorHorse (26 October 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/915906

These are our shool ponies- BLOODY CHEEK!
And this is our riding school:
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/9721
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/9721

[/ QUOTE ]

Why are you concerned about views that anyone can see with his or her own eyes from public rights of way? If you're concerned about the picture of the road to Sulham passing the entrance to Hall Place, are you also concerned about the pictures on http://www.hall-place.com/index.html that show your facilities in more intimate detail?


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## IvorHorse (26 October 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The only photos of horses near Speen on Geograph are taken from the numerous public footpaths in the area, from what I can see, and are pastoral scenes only. The Horse Trust have their own website with far more detailed photographs of their actual premises on the geograph pics - just stick them into google images. And they open to the public.... 

[/ QUOTE ]

That's because the pictures have been removed by request!! D'oh!  The Horse Trust were angry because the pictures were taken from their own land(PRIVATE PROPERTY!!!!) and not during visiting times, plus some of the horses they have are involved in court cases and their pictures should not be on the internet with details of where they are!!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually no pictures of horses at Speen have been removed from Geograph. All were taken from public rights of way. I don't believe there has been any such request to have pictures removed.


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## RobinHood (26 October 2008)

Just had a look

- there's a photo of my old boss' field
- there's a photo of a nearby yard's horses.

Those are both fine, but then there's a photo of my yard that can only have been taken by someone trespassing! It's private land with a public bridlepath running round the edge and the photo has been taken from the middle of the farm  
	
	
		
		
	


	




 so someone has walked through the farm instead of using the bridlepath.


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## RachelFerd (26 October 2008)

but robinhood, the photo could have been taken by anyone - it could theoretically have been taken by someone who is allowed access to the farm.

I just don't understand why anyone really cares!


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## carys220 (26 October 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/915906

These are our shool ponies- BLOODY CHEEK!
And this is our riding school:
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/9721
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/9721

Can you get them to take them off the site at all? 

[/ QUOTE ]

That first picture looks like it was taken from inside the field? Could just be a good zoom. 

But it has NO historical or geographical significance and so really shouldn't be involved in this project should it?


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## Gingernags (27 October 2008)

I can kind of see both sides.  I had a lovely time looking at our local ones, there is so much information and things I didn't know - but mainly it was historical stuff.  My naglets aren't on there and I've posted enough piccies of them myself with a VERY prominent local landmark in the background that would give a good idea of where they are.

However, thats my choice to post pictures of my property.

Had I come across pics someone else posted on this site saying photo of horses in field at x, never see anyone there they must be neglected - I'd be pretty well peed off.

Saying that had there been photos of mine I wasn't happy with, I would have emailed nicely saying lovely photo, but can you please change the caption as just because you haven't seen me, doesn't mean I'm not there twice a day!  Or whatever.

Am actually tempted to contribute some photos!

I think everyone, the new Geograph Groupies included - need to take a deep breath and calm down.  If HHOers have an issue with the pics, take them up individually and nicely with the photographers in question and I'm sure they will remove anything that upsets you.

As for the Geographers - the same is tru of you - stop calling everyone hysterical and mad as a box of frogs and unreasonable and try being a bit more conciliatory.  There may not be proof that theives use your site - but to be fair its not above the realms of impossibility that people *COULD* use it for nefarious purposes, and if someone asks you nicely to change a pic or caption as they are unhappy with their private property being shown in too much detail or with what they see as a judgemental or incorrect caption - its not going to kill you is it?

Play nice now!


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## wizzi901 (27 October 2008)

Well I have complained, sheep and cattle are one thing, horses are quite different, i have seen so many shetlands posted on this ruddy site, giving precise grid reference, tis crazy....

Luckily my horse is no longer at this yard but here is my boy most embarassed in his purple rug......last year...if there were my weenies on there with grid reference in an otherwise very secure yard which is hard to find, I would have something to say!!

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/348167


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## pamandratty (11 November 2008)

There is what I consider an unsuitable pic of my horses and stables on this site.
I have asked for it to be removed and i would provide a more suitable pic

Have e mailed the guy running the site , got a reply about a week ago that he would look in to it but I havent heard any more
any ideas what to do next


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