# Dogs and stiles - any ideas?



## Broodle (10 January 2011)

I don't generally post in here, but do regularly browse AAD for information and hope you won't mind me picking your collective brains?

I have two labradoodle (I know, I know!) bitches - one 14 months, one 4 months old.  On one of our regular walks there is a stone stile (popular around these parts) with no round-route for dogs - they have to go over the top.  When the older dog was little she didn't ever make an effort to jump over this stile herself, and we didn't encourage it because of not wanting to strain her joints.  We always just lifted her over.  However, now she is a good 25kg or more lifting her is just about breaking me!  

So, I am looking for advice on how to teach her to scramble over herself.  She knows the command 'hup' for 'jump onto/over this', and is usually totally reliable with this, but at the stile she just stares at me blankly as if to say 'don't be silly, I don't jump this thing, you lift me'!  I have also tried carrying on walking into the distance until out of sight, calling her all the time, but she just gets distressed and makes no effort whatsoever to get over the stile.  Her new little sister showed off the other day by scrambling over herself (unasked), and the older one still just stood on the other side waiting for her lift.

She has once made it over on her own, when I chucked a ball (her very favourite thing in the world) over for her to fetch, but this trick has since failed to work.  So, I know she _can_ make it over...

Any suggestions gratefully received!  She has no health issues that I am aware of, and is as fit as a flea.

Thanks in advance! K x


----------



## Spudlet (10 January 2011)

Hehehehehe, sorry I have to giggle as I have been that person lifting a gurt lump of dog ever various obstacles too Mind you, since teaching Henry to scramble the main problem I have is stopping him

Can you get her to put her front paws on top, then you lift her backend up to join them? Have you tried putting little bits of food on top to tempt her to get her front paws up there?


----------



## MissTyc (10 January 2011)

Can't you just climb over and keep walking and wait for her to follow?


----------



## Broodle (10 January 2011)

Spudlet said:



			Hehehehehe, sorry I have to giggle as I have been that person lifting a gurt lump of dog ever various obstacles too Mind you, since teaching Henry to scramble the main problem I have is stopping him

Can you get her to put her front paws on top, then you lift her backend up to join them? Have you tried putting little bits of food on top to tempt her to get her front paws up there?
		
Click to expand...

I must make a very entertaining sight, what with being not that much bigger than the dog and with all the fing and blinding that goes on!  I have tried putting her front paws up, but not actually lifting her backend too or adding food.  Will give this a go next time - thanks!



MissTyc said:



			Can't you just climb over and keep walking and wait for her to follow?
		
Click to expand...

I have tried this twice now, involving walking across a 10 acre field and fully out of sight, calling all the while.  She just stands there getting more and more distressed, not making the least effort to move!  Guess she knows that I will come back for her...


----------



## Spudlet (10 January 2011)

She's half Labrador, so food has got to be the answer


----------



## Spudlet (10 January 2011)

Sorry, thought of something else to add!

Henry used to be a bit reluctant to jump into the car boot, so I would take him to the car on a nice day with some food, and just sit in the boot myself and encourage him in - first I would reward him just for putting his front paws up, then for jumping in but let him straight back out, then eventually for getting in and staying there. This wasn't when I had to take him somewhere, it was just a training session so there was no time pressure on us.

So I would suggest just going to the stile with no time limit on you and doing something similar, as if you are getting fed up about taking ages to get over then she may become more reluctant to jump up, as she will not understand why you are getting fed up, only that you are.

Hope that makes sense


----------



## Broodle (10 January 2011)

Spudlet said:



			She's half Labrador, so food has got to be the answer

Click to expand...

Ha ha - so true!!

Poor thing, she is so easy in just about every way, and has been generally so trainable (with food!).  It might sound awful, but I think she is not that bright really, bless her.


----------



## Broodle (10 January 2011)

Spudlet said:



			Sorry, thought of something else to add!

Henry used to be a bit reluctant to jump into the car boot, so I would take him to the car on a nice day with some food, and just sit in the boot myself and encourage him in - first I would reward him just for putting his front paws up, then for jumping in but let him straight back out, then eventually for getting in and staying there. This wasn't when I had to take him somewhere, it was just a training session so there was no time pressure on us.

So I would suggest just going to the stile with no time limit on you and doing something similar, as if you are getting fed up about taking ages to get over then she may become more reluctant to jump up, as she will not understand why you are getting fed up, only that you are.

Hope that makes sense

Click to expand...

Very sensible advice, thanks.  I do normally somehow seem to pick that route when I am in a hurry and it's raining, and probably do get obviously frustrated with the poor thing.  Doesn't help that either side of the stile is lovely deep cow poo infused bog, so it's not somwhere I really like hanging around.  That said, next time we go I will take a thermos and treats and get comfy for the long haul!


----------



## blackcob (10 January 2011)

Katie_A said:



			I have also tried carrying on walking into the distance until out of sight, calling her all the time, but she just gets distressed and makes no effort whatsoever to get over the stile.
		
Click to expand...

Damn, that was going to be my suggestion - a combination of placing the front paws on the top of the stile and lifting the back end over and eventually placing the front paws and then running away very quickly worked for mine! 

We also had a bit leap in success when I found a stile that was only half the usual height - it was on the entrance to a footbridge so only a little step-over - she could hop over that with no trouble and combined with a 'hup!' that seemed to give her confidence with the proper ones.


----------



## Broodle (10 January 2011)

blackcob said:



			Damn, that was going to be my suggestion - a combination of placing the front paws on the top of the stile and lifting the back end over and eventually placing the front paws and then running away very quickly worked for mine! 

We also had a bit leap in success when I found a stile that was only half the usual height - it was on the entrance to a footbridge so only a little step-over - she could hop over that with no trouble and combined with a 'hup!' that seemed to give her confidence with the proper ones. 

Click to expand...

Thanks blackcob.  Don't think we've got any handy mini stiles round here - there is either room for dogs to go around or under, generally, apart from this one annoying stone job.  I will do more general 'hup' practice though, since she clearly isn't all that clear on it!

I think it probably is a confidence thing with my dog, so I'll just have to build her up in stages like you say.  Paws on stile, lots of fuss and food, lifting backend over, lots of fuss and food, etc etc.  Better check the weather forecast before I go...


----------



## k9h (10 January 2011)

You mean these kind of styles?













Or this kind?







Sorry no help!
Mine just sorted themselves out how to get over them! LOL!


----------



## k9h (10 January 2011)

You could actually, just had an idea! 
If you go with a friend. Have plenty of treats. If you coax her up with treat to get front legs on, reward her. You stay at front & praising & friend lifts back legs up.
Then repeat up on to next step & so on????

Just an idea but I don't know as never had the problem!

Famous last words!


----------



## Natch (10 January 2011)

Such a show off


----------



## Broodle (10 January 2011)

k9h said:



			You could actually, just had an idea! 
If you go with a friend. Have plenty of treats. If you coax her up with treat to get front legs on, reward her. You stay at front & praising & friend lifts back legs up.
Then repeat up on to next step & so on????

Just an idea but I don't know as never had the problem!

Famous last words!
		
Click to expand...

Wow k9h, those are some impressive stiles!!!  Sadly my problem stile is nowhere near as groovy - it's just a gert big slab of stone set into the ground on its end (if that makes any sense?!), with a couple of smaller stepping stones on either side.  But the stepping stones are too small and close to the big slab to be any use to dogs, really.  So they can't climb up but have to take one single leap of faith from ground to top of slab (which, to be fair, is only approx throat height on my girl, so not that huuuge) to ground on the other side.

I really like the two person approach, especially if I can con OH into coming and taking on the really dirty back end role - lol!

I had to do the 'hoist of shame' over said stile in front of the farmer whose land it's on yesterday - he shook his head and was clearly thinking 'daft bint from the village with her namby pamby good for nothing designer dog'.  Must get her to man up sharpish!

ETS I am v impressed that your dogs worked out those elaborate stiles all on their own - they put my daft wuss to shame!


----------



## CorvusCorax (10 January 2011)

Mine jump styles but with a young weightbearing breed I would not ask them to jump until they are a bit older than that, not necessarily lift up, but help front over and then help back end over to lessen the impact and protect the hips and elbows. And yes, I have broken the fall/jump of 40kg dog on many occasions!!!


----------



## Broodle (10 January 2011)

CaveCanem said:



			Mine jump styles but with a young weightbearing breed I would not ask them to jump until they are a bit older than that, not necessarily lift up, but help front over and then help back end over to lessen the impact and protect the hips and elbows. And yes, I have broken the fall/jump of 40kg dog on many occasions!!!
		
Click to expand...

Ouch!!  Interesting that you would wait a bit longer - how old would you say she should be before she does any serious jumping?  Vet was happy for her to start jumping into car etc from 12 months.


----------



## CorvusCorax (10 January 2011)

12 months  it's the wee one I was talking about, although I have read properly now and know she isn't the one with the problem.

Have you ruled out a little tweak or something? Maybe she has a strain and doesn't want to hurt herself?


----------



## k9h (10 January 2011)

Naturally said:



			Such a show off 

Click to expand...

I do like to try & help!


----------



## Broodle (10 January 2011)

CaveCanem said:



			12 months  it's the wee one I was talking about, although I have read properly now and know she isn't the one with the problem.

Have you ruled out a little tweak or something? Maybe she has a strain and doesn't want to hurt herself?
		
Click to expand...

Ha ha!  Phew, glad we sorted that out!

I have wondered about whether she is refusing because of pain, but I have been trying intermittently to get her over this stile for a couple of months now and during this time she has been happy jumping into the car and onto/over other things out walking, so I think this can be ruled out.

Just reading back the above about me persevering for two months, and am feeling rather sorry for the poor dog.  She must get to the blinkin stile each time and think 'better settle in for the strange shennanigans that goes on here then - wonder what the crazy lady will do this time?'


----------

