# Neue Schule Verbindend



## Ebbw (25 July 2011)

I'm after some feedback on the Neue Schule Verbindend.

I was looking for a lozenge bit for my 6yo. Something a bit more ergonomic than his current french link.

I picked up a Neue Schule verbindend on ebay. Foolishly I bought it without really reading into it.

Now I'm no loriner but the neue schule website seems to imply the bit is intended for more advanced work. Also claims to "lighten the shoulder", though quite how a bit alone does that I'm not sure ( I though correct use of the hinds lifted the forehand?).
Me and my mount are certainly not advanced in any sense of the word, but we are enjoying some light schooling.
I don't want to use something whose action imposes a false outline (though I suspect an ergonomic lozenge snaffle would be unliekly to do so?)
Horse is a cob with a fat(ish) tongue. He's been ok in the French link but a bit tense through the neck.

I guess what I am asking is have a made a stupid purchase or am I just over thinking and if he is happy in it when I try it well thats that! ( I suspect the latter).

How do those who use this bit rate it and how advanced are you?


----------



## Scottish_Miss (25 July 2011)

Hi - I have very similar story to you - had a ID type in a standard french link fulmer, got the verbinden as mate had it for sale. My trainer did not like him being in it said its far to advanced/harsh for him and to get a normall KK ultra. 
I personally did not feel any lift through the shoulders! 
But with you on that they have to be connected from behind to lighten in front.

Now he is in a KK ultra he loves it  - we have drooling! lots of ;-D  and he also was blocked through the neck and with certain exercises awe are addressing that - but very happy with the KK ultra, have a 18mm as also fleshy tounge.

Do hope that this helps,


----------



## SnowGoose (25 July 2011)

my understanding - and i may be way out here - is that the verbindend is designed for horses who are a little strong / heavy in the hand and the action causes them to be less so therefore allowing you to ride them from behind but control it so they lift through the shoulder rather than just tanking off with you.

the KK ultra and trans-angled lozenge / team up type bits are milder and encourage the horse to stretch its neck and accept the contact forward and down.

have borrowed a KK ultra eggbutt at the moment and it definately seems to help me with stretching and round and deep (he can be quite tense and 'up and back' in his neck).  however he is quite heavy in the hand with it.  my plan is to accept the heaviness while he is learning to stretch and accept the contact then, once he is fairly consistant and balanced in it, if i find he gets too heavy when i'm trying to ride his back end more underneath him, change to something like the verbindend to help if i need to. 

as i say though i am far from expert in this, have just been researching over the last couple weeks while i try something different with the pony so i'm, sure you will get much more knowledgable advice from others,


----------



## angelish (25 July 2011)

i like mine 
it was recommended to me by the kind/helpful people on here 
i think the only way you can tell is to try it and see if your horse likes it 

it doesn't force an out line as like you say ,that comes from behind  

me/my horse did our first unafilliated novice in feb so were not really that addvanced , i think it just depends on the horse , this bit doesn't suit my friends horse as he is the kind to come back at you and something with less movement ie a straight or eggbut encourages him to take the contact forward better


----------



## vhf (25 July 2011)

Before you panic...
I have one for my mare, and we don't even pretend to be advanced in any way shape or form. In fact, we use it for prelim dressage and 90cm SJ, and I had the same initial worry. She has a thick tongue, small mouth and is built slightly downhill, and the only other bit she likes is a waterford. She goes well bitless but I had to find something dressage legal, and this has been her bit of choice, so who am I to argue?


----------



## ThePony (25 July 2011)

My mare has the verbindend as she has a large tongue and hates any bit that isn't shaped to relieve any pressure on it. She loves it and so is soft and happy in it. Certainly not advanced in our schooling, though working on it! We tried a KK, but she didn't get on with it at all, the angle on it gave a little tongue pressure which she really hated. She was lovely in it for about 20 mins but then got v heavy and unsettled in the contact. Bit out and verbindend in and happy mare then and since! Most certainly don't feel that it insists on any sort of outline or forces anything, it just so happens that that shape suits her well and she is comfortable in it.


----------



## Libbyn1982 (25 July 2011)

Are the Verbindend and KK ultra dressage legal? Have issues with mouthy horse and tongue hanging out, have been recommended a port or lozenge but need it for dressage too... He's not heavy in the hand once I have him working properly just fidgity


----------



## Libbyn1982 (25 July 2011)

Sorry, just check on website, can see that NS is legal....


----------



## Ebbw (25 July 2011)

Thanks for the feedback, very helpful and much appreciated.

I haven't yet recieved the bit. I rechecked the ebay listing and I'm not the muppet I thought I was! The picture is actually for the neue schule starter (which I would be happy with) but the listing refers to a verbindend/ Have contacted the seller to clear this up.


----------



## Gorgeous George (25 July 2011)

Hi I have a 16.3 shire x who is short in the back and neck, and finds it difficult to bend and flex. although not strong he can be very heavy in the hand and tends to lean. We only do dressage at prelim and often aren't that good 

I have really struggled to find a dressage legal bit that he likes but the NS verbindend with the loose rings, lozenge and thinner mouthpiece has really helped. I had to be quite tough with him, lots of leg and a consistent contact, but it seemed to really help him understand what I was asking  He doesn't lean as much and his really starting to flex his neck and use his backend. Every couple of weeks he decided he won't work in the NS so I put his mullen mouth eggbutt in for a few sessions (which he goes reasonably in), then back to the NS and all is well.


----------



## Mrs_Wishkabibble (25 July 2011)

I also have the verbindend for a very fussy in the mouth mare with a big tongue that liked to hang on your hands (previous draw rein use) 
This bit suits her perfectly and had tried lots of others before she decided she liked the verbindend!


----------



## Orangehorse (25 July 2011)

I have one and I like it, horse is lighter and doesn't lean so much - previously used a sweet iron french link.  I didn't notice an immediate improvement, it just dawned on me that he is better!

Certainly no where near advanced, but he isn't a novice baby either.


----------



## PorkChop (25 July 2011)

Hiya, I actually use one for my daughters pony! When we bought him he was ridden in a kimblewick, we tried the verbindend one day and my daughter likes it and so does the pony- she is eight so not riding her pony in any sort of outline.

With any bit it is a matter of trying all sorts until you find one that suits both you and your horse, we all ride differently, and you always find someone who will like/hate a certain bit.  But I certainly would not describe this bit as harsh x


----------



## star (25 July 2011)

i have my Welsh D x TB in one, just recently started using it in past few mths as got him his own bridle (was previously using a NS Tranz angle but have kept that for the other horse, friend had a spare Verbindend so thought I'd try him in it)  He is most certainly not advanced in any way, he is 12 but not done much schooling until I got him end of last yr and only really cracked on with some decent schooling in Feb.  He is competing prelim/novice and has a tendency to be a bit resistant to the contact - i feel this bit helps a bit but it certainly doesn't magicly lift the forehand and put them in a perfect outline which only comes from correct riding from leg to hand.


----------



## PucciNPoni (25 July 2011)

Another person who likes the verbidnend!  I have used it on a fleshy mouth, heavy on the forehand Welsh D.  I now use it on a pb Arab that can be a bit heavy on the f/hand.  It's definitely not a miracle cure - but it does seem to encourage a better contact than my ordinary french link.  

I think it would be a bit more "advanced" when being used as part of a double (you can get this bit in a smaller ring version with a weymouth".


----------



## ecrozier (25 July 2011)

I've also got the verbindend! On my 5 year old who is currently pretty establised in trot work but canter still a work in progress! Certainly wouldn't say it's harsh, he's very happy in it, as recommended by neue schule to
move on from his NS starter (which needs to go om eBay as I now need a different bit for jumping him!!)
He's a kwpn x ish with a fairly large tongue and fleshy mouth.


----------



## Wilbur_Force (25 July 2011)

I like this bit. Will used to lean a fair bit and it really helped me get him a little bit more up.  Obviously, what suits one may not suit another, but i have tried others and we keep coming back to this.  He used to be in a KK ultra, but the mouthpiece is thicker and he definitely goes better in the NS.  Also, they are decidedly less costly than a Sprenger!


----------



## ecrozier (25 July 2011)

Ahh yes also second Wilbur_force's comment, roo much prefers the thinner mouthpiece. I'm jumping him in a traditional french link fulmer ATM and it looks so much more bulky in his mouth!


----------

