# Barefoot Farriers V Farrier, opinions please!!



## Tamba (24 February 2010)

Okay, heres why I am posting this question...

Earlier today I got my horses shod. Well, I was so surprised that it hadnt been cancelled due to the foot and a half of snow that had fell overnight.. plus still snowing this morning. But thankfully, now have  2 horses shod, one with only fronts and a full set on my big warmblood. Two trims, on my yearling, and my black I.d X Mare. The others  who are normally trimmed werent bad and will wait to next time.
Well, my farrier, (quite a good guy and get on well with him), asked me whether I was shoeing or trimming my I.d X mare. She has poor feet, and hadnt been holding shoes well. I said , Well actually I was going to get the barefoot farrier out to her, instead, so I could monitor better. (Me thinking that they looked into the diet, foot growth, etc, ) 
Well, he says to me, if you were ill would you go to the doctor, or would you go to some voodoo perspon 
	
	
		
		
	


	








LOL, nearly died laughing... barefoot farriers are not farriers, have no qualifications... and dont know what they are doing.. its exactly the same as my trimming the foot, in a balanced way..(I stand back and give this some thought... Hmm, what do I do? Plus he says , a barefoot farrier will charge you about 45 quid and we only charge 20. quid.

Well what he said made a lot of sense to me..what if she makes my already poor footed mare, worse. Her feet have been improving since i got her. They were really neglected before hand. So I got her trimmed as usual.
Question, Does anyone here use Barefoot farriers and why, instead of the normal farrier? And did they ask them whether they had any formal qualifications, before doing their horses feet. ?
We all know no foot, no horse, so it is pretty important that we get it right!?
Just curious, sorry for long story, if you were bored to death reading it !!!(just trying to show why I raised question!!!


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## Izzwizz (24 February 2010)

I would use my Farrier every time.  As you say they are fully qualified and go to College and train for however long it is.  Mine is an excellent one and has done some fab remedial farriery with my mare.  He just knows his stuff and he doesnt really rate barefoot trimmers for the reasons you quote above.  They do seem to charge a lot for what they do.  Ive seen one at work and have to say am not that impressed.  Vote for the Farrier every time (well mine anyway!!)


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## firstponyMinto (24 February 2010)

Yep...normal farrier everytime,  as long as they know you're keeping the foot bare, so they can trim the foot accordingly (roll the toe!)


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## *hic* (24 February 2010)

I've had unshod horses on and off all my horse-owning years. Currently I have only one shod, four unshod. I've competed up to 3'6 SJ and 3' XC with unshod horses, my little mare started eventing unshod, my driving pony has never had shoes on in her life and is happy going for miles and miles on the road. My big mare was out dressaging with no shoes a couple of weeks back - although we did get some funny looks at her feet.

I've never used a "barefoot trimmer", why would I bother when I have a fantastic farrier who already does everything my horses need, and keeps them all very sound for me?


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## Roasted Chestnuts (24 February 2010)

My farrier does a fabby job of Kias feet.

If its not broke then dont fix it in my view!! If the farrier your using can trim them and keep them sound then thats all that matters.

Nikki xxxx


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## Baileyhoss (24 February 2010)

you get good and bad farriers and you get good &amp; bad 'barefoot trimmers'.

The difference is that farriers undergo a strict qualification process, apprecticeship, checks, exams, etc.  There is an overall governing body &amp; a procedure for reporting poor, incompetent or unprofessional farriers.
Farriers are insured themselves and using a farrier will not invalidate your horses insurance, as using a 'trimmer' might.

Anyone can call themselves a barefoot trimmer, there is no governing body which they MUST be registered with, there is no mandatory qualification or training process.


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## Orangehorse (24 February 2010)

Not this one again! Get a barefoot trimmer (not farrier) from the recognised UK sites, who will be registered, insured and trained.

If I wanted to ride my horse barefoot I would use a barefoot trimmer.  If I wanted my horse trimmed to go out in the field I wold use a farrier.  If I want my horse to have metal shoes on I use a registered farrier.  Simple.


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## amandaco2 (24 February 2010)

i have 3 barefoot with the farrier
he is very good.
he does as good, if not better job then a barefoot person who would charge nearly double....
plus i know he has actually studied feet.


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## coen (24 February 2010)

Ooh this post has made me have second thoughts.
My horse became a nightmare to shoe after a bad experience with a farrier, as a result has been without shoes fo a couple of months while I try to handle feet, build trust ect.
Seeing as he is coping fine without shoes I want to keep it that way but have found it very hard to get a farrier who is willing to come out on a wk end to shoe...apparently not worth there while.

At a bit of a loose end I emailed a barefoot trimmer today.
They do seem expensive for what they do.

Maybe I am better off persevering with finding a farrier.


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## FirstLightFarm (24 February 2010)

In this country we have associations that certify both barefoot trimmers and shoers.  (I call both of them "farriers".)

But nobody I know has the faintest idea what those associations are! 
	
	
		
		
	


	




  We have plenty of people who just go to a six week course and start doing feet. 
	
	
		
		
	


	




  You have to get references to find a good farrier - barefoot or shoer.

Me?  My three horses are all barefoot.  Why not?  I live in a warm climate with flat sandy soil.  If I want to travel to the mountains, I can put a pair of hoof boots on my horse and not worry about getting someone out to shoe.

Oh - and here, it's far less expensive to have feet trimmed than to shoe.

I'd say my horse friends are about equally divided as far as shoes and barefoot.


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## Donkeymad (24 February 2010)

7 out of 8 of ours are unshod and work. I would always place their hoof care into the hands of a fully trained farrier and not in the hands of a barefoot trimmer. Some people love their trimmers, but that is their choice. In both worlds, there are good ones and bad ones.


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## Oberon (24 February 2010)

I use UKNHCP trained trimmers for my two barefoot performance horses. This goes hand in hand with the research I do myself into keeping my horses healthy.

My elderly horse has had a systemic reaction to a vaccine and an abcess. I have received advice and support from my trimmers (alongside my vet) and just got off the phone from my trimmer who called to ask how we were doing. They are always available for advice and take enormous pride in my horse's feet.

I did not receive the same customer service from the farriers I had used for the previous 17years.

My experience with the UKNHCP is a group of people constantly researching new methods of keeping horses successfully. If you ever look at their forum you will get an insight into how sad we all are!

From my own research, I have found that most barefoot horses managed by a farrier are fine as long as they have no complications. Any horse with an issue (metabolic issues and insulin resistance being the biggies) will have mixed success with a farrier and are likely to be re-shod eventually. 

Such horses managed with a GOOD barefoot trimmer and an involved owner are more likely to be successful barefoot. It depends, though on how compliant the owner is with advice regarding diet and environment. It is NOT just a 'magic trim'! This is just my personal observation.

If an owner just wants to pay someone to take full care of the horse's feet - use a farrier.
If an owner is willing to take an active role in the horse's management and treat it holistically in conjunction with a GOOD trimmer - then go for a UKNHCP trimmer.

Just for reference, UKNHCP trimmers have a 2 year training programme with an extensive externship.


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## Holly831 (24 February 2010)

[ QUOTE ]
7 out of 8 of ours are unshod and work. I would always place their hoof care into the hands of a fully trained farrier and not in the hands of a barefoot trimmer. Some people love their trimmers, but that is their choice. In both worlds, there are good ones and bad ones. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Me too, Farrier everytime. I have 8 horses of which only one is currently shod. I have my 'everyday' Farrier who has served a 4.5 year apprenticeship and does a great job and I also use a remedial farrier who is more qualified (has a degree and trains young farriers) for my 2 year old who has 'problem' feet and my young foals. Between them they keep my barefoots balanced and sound - and all for around £20.00 a time - can't ask more than that!!


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## Enfys (24 February 2010)

[ QUOTE ]

If an owner just wants to pay someone to take full care of the horse's feet - use a farrier.
If an owner is willing to take an active role in the horse's management and treat it holistically in conjunction with a GOOD trimmer - then go for a UKNHCP trimmer.



[/ QUOTE ]






 Wooooooooooo, you make it sound as if not using one of your UKNHCP trimmers makes us all uncaring 
	
	
		
		
	


	





My personal experience of 'trimmers' completely unprintable.

My opinion of my farrier, who trims 80% of his clients because a LOT more horses go unshod here than in the UK, 'solid gold'. 

Where I live, farriers do not have to be certified, anyone can take themselves off on a mini course (days, not weeks, months or years) and set themselves up in business.

I did encounter a UKNHCP trimmer back in the UK at a seminar, and sadly was left with a very negative impression. 

He may have known his stuff about feet et al, but his public relation skills rated a big fat zero, and no way would I employ some jumped up little git talking down to me in the patronising fashion he used to the room. basically, that he was right, we were all wrong, that may be the case, but you don't just jump on your barefoot, holistically trimmed high horse and say that and then expect people to fall over themselves to employ you or your colleagues.






 He did himself, and his profession, no favours, especially to open minded people, of all ages and experiences, who went along to learn something.


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## Oberon (24 February 2010)

It wasn't my intention to sound as though I accuse anyone of being uncaring. The point I am trying to make is that farriers will look after the hooves. An owner doesn't need to do much other than follow the farrier's advice. Cool.

If you wish to employ a barefoot trimmer it is not safe to do the same thing as you would with a farrier. You can (usually)trust a farrier - they are highly trained and regulated.

Barefoot trimmers are sometimes not highly trained and currently not regulated. You need to have a working knowledge of what they are talking about in order to ensure they know what they are talking about.

I highlight UKNHCP because I use them and I know their training is extensive and they are very pro-regulation. I don't know much about other barefoot training programmes so I cannot recommend them in good concience.

Your interaction with the guy you didn't like enforces my point that (just like farriers) even with a good training regime - there are still some cowboys out there. So you need to know if they are talking bull or not.

It is hard to have an intelligent conversation on such a subject because people tend to become defensive and hostile. I would like to add that I couldn't care less if people choose farriers or trimmers - as long as their horses are happy!


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## Enfys (24 February 2010)

[ QUOTE ]
  Your interaction with the guy you didn't like enforces my point that (just like farriers) even with a good training regime - there are still some cowboys out there. So you need to know if they are talking bull or not. <font color="red"> Quite. he DID know his stuff, and he made a lot of sense,  he was just a pratt and made us feel, as you say, defensive and hostile, people switched off </font> 

It is hard to have an intelligent conversation on such a subject because people tend to become defensive and hostile.  <font color="red"> Only, I think, if they are told outright that they are wrong, and have always been so,  and not given the option to decide for themselves to do something that may work a little better for some horses </font> I would like to add that I couldn't care less if people choose farriers or trimmers - as long as their horses are happy! 

[/ QUOTE ] <font color="red"> That's what it's all about isn't it?  
	
	
		
		
	


	




 If it works for the individual horse then it can't be all wrong, whichever route is chosen </font>


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## ofcourseyoucan (24 February 2010)

farrier EVERY time! many farriers are short on words and customer PR but are properly trained and take pride in their work and keeping their horses sound.


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## Natch (24 February 2010)

Psst! Just to let the OP know that a barefoot farrier will in all probability be a farrier who has also done extra training with the barefoot schools of thought.

A barefoot trimmer will be a solely barefoot qualified/unqualified person, and a Farrier is, well, a person who can shoe or trim horses.

I might sound pedantic but thought it might be useful for the OP to know the difference in terminology


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## catshark88 (24 February 2010)

Farrier every time. There will be good and bad examples of farriers and trimmers, but at least you know your farrier has had to have appropriate trining.


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## cptrayes (24 February 2010)

Cambridge Dictionary
Definition
farrier noun
a person who makes and fits metal plates for horses' feet


There is no such thing as a barefoot farrier in the UK. There are farriers who do barefoot trimming, which is trimming horses in full work to work without shoes. And there are barefoot trimmers who are not legally allowed to fit shoes even if they wanted to.

There are good and bad in both. There are National Occupational Standards for both. It is worth noting that Strasser trimmers are trained in an invasive trim - ie they sometimes cut into live hoof and draw blood and their methods do not satisfy the NOS. Many farriers who do a barefoot trim will trim the frog and/or rasp the toe callous (to get the foot level as if for a shoe), both of which are no-nos for barefoot trimmers.  And barefoot trimmers from UKNHCP (and maybe others, I don' t know) are taught a LOT more than farriers about the metabolic and nutritional issues that bedevil the more difficult barefoot cases. And they will hold your hand through the process of getting your horse accustomed to working without shoes. That's what you pay the extra for, (if they charge extra, some don't), not the trim.


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## Natch (24 February 2010)

There are qualified &amp; registered farriers who have done barefoot trimming training. Have no idea if they are also registered with UKNHCP.  These people seem to want to prefer to go the barefoot route but will shoe where they see appropriate.

That's who I meant when I referred to barefoot farriers. I think the term is used more abroad than here. I have seen a few american trained farriers profess to follow this train of thought.


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## SirenaXVI (24 February 2010)

My horses are barefoot - farrier every time for me


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## Ali2 (24 February 2010)

EP for us.


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## gabbypinkjessica (25 February 2010)

I have one shod and one unshod, both done by farrier and I can't fault him. Only 20 quid for a trim.  I was quite interested in getting a trimmer, as I like the thought of the holistic approach, but actually my farrier gives me plenty of valuable advice, and my horses are sound and happy, so I'm not going anywhere!


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## brucea (25 February 2010)

"you know a tree by its fruit"

if it works for you, you're happy with that person, and they are doing a good job for your horse and you, then why get worked up?

UKNHCP AANHCP EAP all have certification programs, and they won't certify a noddy, too much reputational risk for them in doing that 
	
	
		
		
	


	





Yes, there are some barefoot folks who get carried away with the religious argument, as there are some farrier supporters who do as well.

Just needs a bit of balance in the discussion.

I use a great UKNHCP trimmer for my "really complicated" driving pony that needs careful management, and I do the other two myself. 

Yep - I trim my horses myself! Shock horror wait for the outraged and misinformed to rave that this is illegal!  
	
	
		
		
	


	

















Actually it's not. What's more the vets know what I do, local farriers see what I do, and there have been many comments on just how good their feet are (with vet x-rays to back up that they are correctly balanced, in fact the vets take a great interest because they are keen to see how the move to barefoot has relieved several long term health and lameness issues)

Actually I have invested in a chunk of training to prepare, so not just picked up the tools and gone "let's have a go"

There isn't a great deal of mystery to it, but you do need to know what to do and to interpret what is before you. In fact once you get it right, there isn't a lot of trimming to actually do and a straightforward horse can be self managing...as mine is.

Like I say - you know a tree by its fruits.


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## MrsElle (25 February 2010)

I used a 'barefoot practitioner' or 'equine podiatrist' or whatever they call themselves and thought she was crap!

She charged me £40 for a job I could have done better myself.

I now use a local remedial farrier and the difference in horses feet is amazing.  I am so pleased with his work, and best of all he only charges £20 a go so am saving money too.

I would never ever use a 'barefoot practitioner' again.


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## Enfys (25 February 2010)

[ QUOTE ]


Yep - I trim my horses myself! Shock horror wait for the outraged and misinformed to rave that this is illegal!  
	
	
		
		
	


	



















[/ QUOTE ]






 Not from me you won't. 

I live in North America where anyone can buy a set of tools, or grab a rasp and a knife from the workshop, whatever, maybe, MAYBE, read a book, watch a video or have someone show them (be it Farrier, Dad or the Mennonites from across the road) and away you go. It is a fact of life, unless they maim a horse and it is reported they will carry on. I guess exactly the same can (and undoubtedly does) happen in the UK, who is to know what goes on behind closed doors?

In contrast to the UK, a huge amount of horses here never see a shoe in their entire lives, none of mine have and unless my Farrier advised otherwise they won't either. Waste of money for what I use them for.


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## Silverspring (25 February 2010)

Never heard the phrase barefoot farrier in my life...barefoot trimer yes, farrier yes but I doubt there is a single farrier (ie qualified) out there that exclusively trims horse's feet but never puts on shoes.

As you farrier said why would you use a trimmer when you already have a trust-worthy qualified farrier out to your other horses?  My girl is done by a nice young farrier (ie HOT!) who shoe's a couple of the horses at the yard.  He's actually quite good with her feet too


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## MagicMelon (25 February 2010)

Most farriers hate barefoot trimmers.  Farriers are extremely set in their ways and of course hate any other "methods" coming onto their patch and basically stealing their business!  

I have both.  My farrier does my competition horse as he HAS to be shod purely for studs. By choice (and during the winter) he'd be barefoot too. My 2 veteran ponies who've had bad lami in the past and who my farrier really f'd up one of their feet have been done by my friend - a barefoot trimmer for about 4 years now I think.  The change in their hooves has been amazing - they have never looked so good!!  They DO look carefully at hoof growth and at their diet etc.  They DO have qualifications! They do a hell of a lot of training and case studies etc. to do what they do.  How they trim is nothing like how a farrier trims. A farrier purely trims the hoof in order to put a shoe on. A barefoot trimmer takes into account the hoof quaility / shape etc. and does things over time to improve it.  

Yes, my barefoot trimmer charges more for a trim but she puts in ten times more time and effort into it!  I've had photos documenting whats been going on with my ponies hooves so I can see how much they have transformed. Basically IGNORE YOUR FARRIER - They talk absolute b*llocks IMO.  It's like anything 'new' in the horse world, everybody treats it with total disrespect to begin with.  My barefoot trimmer is now getting recommendations from the biggest horse vet in my area so I think that says a lot.  BTW, my barefoot trimmer is nothing to do with the nasty "strasser" method where a lot of peoples hate of this has come from!


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## Silverspring (25 February 2010)

[ QUOTE ]

A farrier purely trims the hoof in order to put a shoe on. A barefoot trimmer takes into account the hoof quaility / shape etc. and does things over time to improve it.  


[/ QUOTE ]

What a pile of steaming male bovine poo!  YOUR farrier may well trim a horse's foot just to put a shoe on but not ALL farriers take such little interest in the horse's well being.  Farrier's are quite capable (and far more qualified) to trim a horse's foot for ridden work.  Farrier train for 4 years, so called qualified trimmers train for about 4 weeks.  It really is the difference between going to a doctor and going to a crystal healer.


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## Holly831 (25 February 2010)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

A farrier purely trims the hoof in order to put a shoe on. A barefoot trimmer takes into account the hoof quaility / shape etc. and does things over time to improve it.  


[/ QUOTE ]

What a pile of steaming male bovine poo!  YOUR farrier may well trim a horse's foot just to put a shoe on but not ALL farriers take such little interest in the horse's well being.  Farrier's are quite capable (and far more qualified) to trim a horse's foot for ridden work.  Farrier train for 4 years, so called qualified trimmers train for about 4 weeks.  It really is the difference between going to a doctor and going to a crystal healer. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep I agree. My farrier takes great care + attention to my barefoots. He spends a lot of time with remedial work on one of mine and ensuring they are balanced etc. He also advises on nutrition + supliments. Each to their own but I would never use anyone other than a qualified farrier on mine.


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## Natch (26 February 2010)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

A farrier purely trims the hoof in order to put a shoe on. A barefoot trimmer takes into account the hoof quaility / shape etc. and does things over time to improve it.  


[/ QUOTE ]

What a pile of steaming male bovine poo!  YOUR farrier may well trim a horse's foot just to put a shoe on but not ALL farriers take such little interest in the horse's well being.  Farrier's are quite capable (and far more qualified) to trim a horse's foot for ridden work.  Farrier train for 4 years, so called qualified trimmers train for about 4 weeks.  It really is the difference between going to a doctor and going to a crystal healer. 

[/ QUOTE ]

If the equine "foot industry" (for want of a better phrase) is ever to improve such extreme opposing viewpoints need to become the minority.

Farriers need to be given more respect for what they do and know, and barefoot trimmers need to be listened to and given credit for the training and beginnings of meaningful research which is coming through.

IMO, the two schools aren't mutually exclusive and should be afforded more respect than the two extremes. Yes, I daresay there are farriers who only trim to fit a shoe, and barefoot trimmers who have only done 4 weeks training, but we need to get away from the mentality that they are all like that in order to make progress. why should we make progress? For our horse's welfare.


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## Kallibear (26 February 2010)

[ QUOTE ]
 My farrier takes great care + attention to my barefoots. He spends a lot of time with remedial work on one of mine and ensuring they are balanced etc. He also advises on nutrition + supliments

[/ QUOTE ]

And that is very rare - which is why there is a market for barefoot trimmers.

Farriers 'after care' is shocking.

I have had various farriers doing trimming and they have never volunteered any infomation on transitioning, diet, work etc etc. I had one farrier out to deal with avery laminitic pony who's feet were a right mess. They did a good trim but their sole contirbutuion to 'after care' was 'he might need shoes on if he's still a bit sore'. So instead i had a trimmer out who advised us on deit, management, boots, work etc.

I don't doubt that farriers are very knowledgeable, but if they aren't willing to share it, it's irrelevent.


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## Roasted Chestnuts (28 February 2010)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
 My farrier takes great care + attention to my barefoots. He spends a lot of time with remedial work on one of mine and ensuring they are balanced etc. He also advises on nutrition + supliments

[/ QUOTE ]

And that is very rare - which is why there is a market for barefoot trimmers.

Farriers 'after care' is shocking.

I have had various farriers doing trimming and they have never volunteered any infomation on transitioning, diet, work etc etc. I had one farrier out to deal with avery laminitic pony who's feet were a right mess. They did a good trim but their sole contirbutuion to 'after care' was 'he might need shoes on if he's still a bit sore'. So instead i had a trimmer out who advised us on deit, management, boots, work etc.

I don't doubt that farriers are very knowledgeable, but if they aren't willing to share it, it's irrelevent. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Have to say that not all farriers are like that and if you get up their nose then you wont get anything out of them.

I have found that if you ask in the right way you get the right answer.

My farrier is fantastic!!! I can even phone him for an opinion or help if I need to and always recommends what is good for the horse rather than his pocket and he travelled to my farm to do one horse every 8 weeks even though its out of his way. He now does Eowyn my new mare and is happy for her to stay barefoot just as Kia is on the back for over a year now and the feet look excellent!!

Nikki xxx


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## Tinypony (1 March 2010)

[ QUOTE ]
 IMO, the two schools aren't mutually exclusive and should be afforded more respect than the two extremes. Yes, I daresay there are farriers who only trim to fit a shoe, and barefoot trimmers who have only done 4 weeks training, but we need to get away from the mentality that they are all like that in order to make progress. why should we make progress? For our horse's welfare. 

[/ QUOTE ]
Amen to that.


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## A1fie (1 March 2010)

I would always go for a farrier over a barefoot trimmer as well.  Far more qualified and has a wider training. 

My farrier will look and treat horses as individuals - some he recommends are unshod, some have remedial shoeing and some have normal shoes.   He would not recommend shoes for everything or barefoot for all.  

I don't agree that every horse can and should be barefoot which is why I would never use someone that only practiced this.


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## Horse_Love (4 July 2012)

Why can't we have both.  I know my farriery does and both options are good for what type of horse you have and what you do with them.

I use Tom @ 
www.equusfarriery.co.uk/


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## Fellewell (4 July 2012)

hoofrehab.com and ironfreehoof.com are both farriers aren't they? I love their philosophies.


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## Pale Rider (4 July 2012)

Changed my mind.


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## Oberon (4 July 2012)

This thread is years old. Hopefully it won't start another bunfight on here


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## buzyizzy (4 July 2013)

Not this AGAIN!!

I have had three farriers trim my two horses over the years, before I found a barefoot trimmer, and each time they left my boys footsore, one of them to the point of having to go on box rest for three weeks until he felt able to move!!

By virtue of moving house several times, I have had several trimmers attend to them, and I have never had an issue with them. My horses compete, xc, s/j, long, long hacks for endurance and stamina as well as helping their feet. I would never, ever let a farrier near their feet again. Barefoot trimmers are not voo-doo doctors, they are TRAINED in the art of managing barefoot horses and can advise on diet, management as well as explaining the type of trim and why.  They are great!


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## Oberon (4 July 2013)

You do know this thread is from 2010?


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## Lego (6 July 2013)

My farrier is lovely, and pretty good, so I'll keep him as long as possible. He is qualified, he does a good job (I look at feet he's shod and feet shod by others on the yard and often think his look a lot better than some!) 

The only disadvantage is that, naturally, his take on management relies more on applying shoes. The trimmer I've been in contact with looks much more at the whole horse and management, and if there are problems, has advice on how to mange them - I know full well that my farriers advice would be to put on shoes if I ever said that he had been a bit footier one week, rather than look into why. I think really that he just humours me - as does my YM - and they keep their mouths shut as long as coblet seems to be ok...


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