# Group lessons or private?



## LadyDarcy (15 May 2016)

Hello everyone!
I'm currently taking group lessons, 8 in our group. Last lesson only half of us were able to come and the difference in learning was apparent. I've been considering having a couple privates lessons in the middle of the group lessons just to help get my sitting trot fixed and get some more tailored advice.

Our instructors are great but some of us have noticed that they sometimes get distracted by their phones. We don't want to cause any bad feelings so we haven't really said anything about it to the manager.

Another reason why I'd like a private class or 2.

Is it worth it?
Thanks!


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## Enfys (15 May 2016)

Well, for a start I WOULD have a word with the Manager about the phone distraction. You are paying for instruction not dead time while the Instructor answers texts, extremely unprofessional of the Instructor. If I was the Manager I would appreciate being informed about this, I can not imagine any Stable Manager would be happy about Instructors using phones when they are supposed to be doing their job.  (I am terribly anti phones on the job, in the class etc. and as an employer I would insist on a phones off policy during lessons )

Regarding private v group lessons. I think, as you say, that you get a great deal more (obviously) benefit from a one to one, or possibly up to 3 in a group than you can possibly get from 8 in a class. 

I have been an Instructor (have been, guess I still am, just not working as one) I loathed large group lessons, it is so hard to give every one an equal amount of attention and inevitably you have some aimlessly circling at one end or whatever, whilst you try to give individual attention to others, I far preferred private or small groups.  

Perhaps alternate private and group lessons?


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## rachk89 (15 May 2016)

I do find it a bit rude when instructors start looking at their phones. Unless they have told me before hand that they are expecting a call for an important reason, I dont really like it. Maybe still mention it to the manager as I doubt they will say exactly who told the manager about them, and I doubt its only your class they do it with, so they wont have a clue.

Definitely go for private lessons if you think it will help. Private lessons generally do help as you get 1 to 1 tuition and you learn a lot more.


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## Shay (16 May 2016)

Riding is no different in this respect than any other sport - or indeed academic lessons.  You will get massively more from a private lesson than a group lesson.  The focus in any group is going to be on someone who is struggling and the rest of the group will get little or nothing.   and everyone progresses only as fast as the slowest learner.  No criticism - that's just life!  If you can afford it private lessons of very small groups of similar ability riders will help you progress much faster.


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## LadyDarcy (16 May 2016)

Ok thanks for the reassurance! I think I will go for it then just a one off. May be get one of the other good riders from my group to join  me and reduce the cost a little.


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## Overread (16 May 2016)

I wouldn't try to mix good and bad into a small group as the bad student will get more attention and value for money than the good. 

When teachers teach groups they do try to give equal time; but what inevitably happens is that students visually clearly struggling get more attention whilst those who overtly appear more confident or skilled are given less. This isn't teachers doing anything wrong; just trying to maximise the value of their time to their students.

As a result any group lesson tends to go at the pace of the weakest student (within reason) because the weaker element is the side that will be focused upon* to try and bring them up to standard. So if you pair with a better student they might not get quite as much benefit; although in a two person group it might not be too bad. 

I would try for someone more in-line with your skill level for small groups and then let the larger groups have higher skilled students (higher level with lower can work well if the group has a good social dynamic as higher level can help the lower). 


From my experiences in practical skill learning private teaching or very small groups are key. Especially because its very easy to appear like you know more than you really do; or more than you are confident in really knowing. As a result you can get ignored or bypassed by the teacher because they are focusing on those who are clearly visually struggling. This can mean that the class advances as a whole whilst the individual student is losing personal self confidence or advancing with subtle gaps. These things tend to get spotted and fixed in much smaller or private groups because the teacher can be more aware of the subtle differences going on with the students.


I would also fully second the advice that the manager should be informed about mobile phone use. If anything push for a policy of no phones in the arena during teaching time. Teachers fussing with their phones; indeed any worker on work time fussing with their phone; is an accident waiting to happen. For time that you're paying for its also highly disrespectful for them to be focusing on their phones rather than watching their students

* at least in good situations. Bad situations are where top students are focused upon and the weaker students ignored; which increases the skill gap and also means that weaker students often progress very little if at all. It's normally a tactic used by teachers who want to get rid of certain students but are unable/willing to actually evict the student from the class


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## Exploding Chestnuts (16 May 2016)

The group is too large, the instruction is poor.
Go somewhere else.


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## LadyDarcy (16 May 2016)

Our group is a private group. We all started at the same time with no experience bar 1, but some of us took to it much more 'naturally' than others. You are certainly right that the less good riders get more attention and the better riders (of whom I am one thank God) and that the small corrections we require are being missed as far as I can tell.
We are all prebooked and paid up for this second course plus the one that comes after it so any changes at this stage will not be possible.

I will get our organiser to speak to the manager on our behalf regarding the phones.

There are some other riding centres that I could try but this is the closest to home and most convenient that it would be viable as a long term riding home for me.

Bar moving out of London I really will have to settle with this centre. And everyone I've met there is really nice anyway which is good.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (16 May 2016)

I would split in to two groups and negotiate price.


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## HunkyDory (16 May 2016)

I have 30 minutes private which I'll mix up with ride outs and the odd hack.  I weigh it up as follows:  in a group with a maximum of 8, all things being equal, we would get 7.5 minutes of one-to-one time with the instructor, vs. 30 minutes one-to-one in a private.  Massive difference for a little bit more money.  My aim is to get to a certain competency and hopefully slot into an advance group, then I'd get more riding time and I'd be happy with that if I mixed it up with ride-outs and hacks.


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## Micky (16 May 2016)

I wouldn't dismiss moving yards if you find the same issues aren't resolved by one to one ( or 1:2) lessons...I started out at the closest school when I returning to riding, then moved to second closest (which was meant to be the best around!) and ended up a good 20/30 mins away at a small but perfectly formed school, tuition was excellent, horses happy healthy and regularly schooled (but not hammered) where I learnt more in a 6 month span than in year at previous schools...


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## LadyDarcy (16 May 2016)

That sounds like another good way to do things. We have a week off in the school half term so I might slot myself in there for my first private class.

We are doing the centres courses, but I think I read the BHS has its own qualifications/courses? If so are they worth doing and how would I benefit?

Thanks again for all the input, it's really helping me as such a new rider. I feel like I have only scratched the surface!


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## Shay (16 May 2016)

A course run by a center without external accreditation is - I'm afraid - only a marketing tool for the center.  You have no way of knowing that it has any value.  Or even if it is being taught properly.  I'm also assuming that the center is not BHS accredited?  I can't see any reason for a BHS establishment to do their own courses rather than the BHS ones.

BHS do a fair range of courses.  Probably most relevant to you are the BHS progressive tests which, when complete, amount to BHS stage 1.  They are nice and approachable and done as part of your usual tuition.  The advantage of having something like BHS is that it is quality assured.  You get a guaranteed level of teaching.  You know that you have met a pre-approved standard and met it fairly.  You can take that qualification anywhere and others know what it is and what it is worth.

You might want to go on to the BHS Riding & Road Safety.  Or the Horse Owner's certificate of competence.  If you want to go further you can take the progressive test and move to BHS stage 2 and upward.  You can find out more about the courses here.  http://www.bhs.org.uk/education.aspx


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## LadyDarcy (16 May 2016)

Thanks for the link. Will defo have a read. I will speak to the lady who organised our course and see if we can move across to an accredited course if possible.


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## LadyDarcy (16 May 2016)

I'm pretty sure our centre is BHS approved and also has Pony Club there. So we'd be looking to maybe try for the Stage 1 qualification from what I've read so far. I've spoken to the organiser and she's looking into it some more.


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## cootuk (18 May 2016)

I would question also how much room you even have with 8 horses in an area. Our schools wouldn't comfortably fit that many. 

I've had about 14 lessons - 10 of those were private 1 hour sessions teaching me from scratch, and now im in small group lessons. We usually have 2 or 3 people in a group so plenty of 1-1 time with the benefit of seeing how others do things.

Having a private lesson does mean you have to work harder for a riding school horse as they seem perkier with other horses about. The price difference is about £5 per lesson where I am. 
It's also worthwhile seeing if you can hack out and get some experience on uneven ground and roads once you feel confident.

Can you vary the time you go so you have a smaller class? I'm lucky that I can go weekdays rather than evening or weekend.

There's also the thing that I wouldn't want to turn up to a fully tacked up horse, ride round, then leave the horse to be untacked by someone else. It's good to get there a bit early and see how to tack up and help untack if you can.


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## oldie48 (19 May 2016)

Absolutely agree, even pony club rallies stick to a max of 6. I had a private lesson with a FBHS who also had her dog with her running around the arena, she answered her phone and was in deep conversation, I left the arena and asked for my money back. Appallingly rude behaviour!



Bonkers2 said:



			The group is too large, the instruction is poor.
Go somewhere else.
		
Click to expand...


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## LadyDarcy (19 May 2016)

The arena is quite big, we fit quite comfortably as a group of 8, but have to admit it was lovely when only 4 of us turned up one week and probably the best lesson to date.  I will definitely be booking a private lesson and will see what the difference is.  I know it will be great already.

I do feel inclined to go and check out a couple other centres and see what the service is like elsewhere.

An old friend of mine has a beautiful black horse and has invited me to her stables a good hours drive away, so that will be a nice experience I hope.

Thanks again, will let you know how I get on!


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## cootuk (19 May 2016)

Does your school also let you ride different horses after a while?
I started off on a fairly laid back cob, but now have been put on a horse that is a bit more headstrong and needs more rider control to reign her in. They are like chalk and cheese to ride, but each can help on developing different techniques.


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## LadyDarcy (21 May 2016)

Yes, we get to ride a different horse almost every week, because there are 8 of us and we are all different sizes, there is a good variety.  I prefer the forward horses who like to go fast.  Yesterday I rode a cheeky horse who is known for trying to be the boss and likes to cut across the arena with the other riders who aren't as 'strict', but I had a good chat to him before I took him out of his stable to let him know I was in charge.  He behaved very well for me   We did have a little power struggle half way through trying to get him to slow down a bit, but I don't think I've quite understood how to half halt properly and put it into practice.
They rotate the horses we use and each week there's a slightly different group each lesson, but they are all beginner/intermediate level horses.
I'm rather tall so I prefer the taller horses, just like I like a high driving position, not a big fan of the small horses as I find their strides too short and bumpy.  Should I challenge myself a bit and give them another go?


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## LadyDarcy (21 May 2016)

oldie48 said:



			Absolutely agree, even pony club rallies stick to a max of 6. I had a private lesson with a FBHS who also had her dog with her running around the arena, she answered her phone and was in deep conversation, I left the arena and asked for my money back. Appallingly rude behaviour!
		
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That's terrible! 
That's another point actually, they do keep a dog or 2 in the reception office, is that allowed?  I'm pretty sure the centre I go to is government funded as part of a regional park authority.  It certainly isn't independent.


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## View (21 May 2016)

i think I may know the establishment to which you are referring.  If you don't want to say so openly, please PM me.  If things don't work out for you, and you are where I think you are, I can suggest some alternatives.


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## oldie48 (21 May 2016)

I've no problem with dogs in reception, just object to them in an arena!



LadyDarcy said:



			That's terrible! 
That's another point actually, they do keep a dog or 2 in the reception office, is that allowed?  I'm pretty sure the centre I go to is government funded as part of a regional park authority.  It certainly isn't independent.
		
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## LadyDarcy (21 May 2016)

Oh no, I don't have a problem with the centre at all, no where will be perfect and we all get on with staff we've met and the horses are well looked after and loved. But I'm still open to try other centres, if only to get a different style of learning and feel a different atmosphere.


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## View (21 May 2016)

LadyDarcy said:



			I'm pretty sure the centre I go to is government funded as part of a regional park authority.  It certainly isn't independent.
		
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The Park Authority does get some public funding, but the Riding Centre and various other venues are commercially run.  Certainly, their prices are in line with others in the area; I wouldn't be surprised to find that the Riding Centre cross subsidises other parts of the Park.


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## LadyDarcy (9 July 2016)

So I finally had a paired private with a friend.  It was great!  I really enjoyed it.  Being able to move my horse freely without worrying about getting stuck behind another rider was great for starters.  We did some walk, trot without stirrups and then some canter work, which is when I had my first fall woohoo!  (it wasn't a bad fall thank God!)

It was the first time I felt really comfortable in canter and kept my bum in the saddle (apart from when i fell off lol!)  

We have another paired lesson booked for next week, so I'm really looking forward to that!


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## View (9 July 2016)

Fantastic (not the fall).  Semi private lessons are a very good option if you both want the same out of the sessions.  Glad you are enjoying the sport.


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