# Predicting coat colour of foal?



## DanielleP (6 August 2007)

SO do you guys just wait and see or is there any genetic formula you can use or rules of thumb you go by?


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## vhf (6 August 2007)

I spent years (after my degree in genetics and animal behaviour) studying and researching coat colour. It was fascinating and I learned loads.
... I wait and see... !!


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## DanielleP (6 August 2007)

really! any ideas what mine will be? 
I have a flea bitten grey mare and the sire is black will it definately be one of these colours?


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## vhf (6 August 2007)

Definitely might be!
Seriously, a grey does make it a little bit easier to predict...

Grey is a "dominant" colour - if the gene for grey is there at all, it will show up in the horse eventually. So you have at least a 50:50 chance of a grey result. If your mare has both grey genes (you can have 0,1 or 2) then the foal will HAVE to inherit a grey gene from her, so will end up grey no matter what colour Dad is. But you can't tell by looking at her!
Black is an odd one - and depends partly on whether it's a "true black" or a really dark bay/brown, because it's possible for two horses who look almost identical to actually have come by their coat colour by different genes.
As your mare is grey, she could be "hiding" all sorts of colours underneath, so you could get quite a surprise.
I think there are over 30 different locations for colour genes in a horse, many of which have 2 or more "options", which is why the colours are so interesting but so tricky to predict unless you know a lot about the breeding, family etc. of each horse you're interested in.


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## MillionDollar (6 August 2007)

I use this-

http://www.horsetesting.com/CCalculator1.asp?Error=1


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## DanielleP (6 August 2007)

THATS EXCELLENT THANKS


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## vicijp (6 August 2007)

So,
My mare is bay, and had a bay foal this year, by a bay stallion.
She is now infoal to a grey stallion.
Probably grey?


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## vhf (6 August 2007)

Hmm. Depends a lot on Dad. 50% chance of grey anyway! Again if he's a "double dose" of grey, the foal will have to be grey.
But Mum could be "hiding" chestnut - which has a habit of staying hidden for several generations sometimes as its a true "recessive" coat colour! Grey dad could be hiding chestnut too, and if they both passed on the hidden chestnut, and dad didn't pass on his grey, you'd end up with a chestnut baby. Or he could be hiding bay...


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## vicijp (6 August 2007)

Christ!
I know the sires dad was grey, and everything ive seen by him is also?


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## Damien (6 August 2007)

You might find this of use!

http://www.animalgenetics.us/CCalculator1.asp

basically the foals can be any colour depending on the genes that each parent carries, so bay, chestnut, grey or black are all possibilities....


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## vhf (6 August 2007)

Yup, that's why I reckon it's still almost as good as "Cover her facing east if you dont want a chestnut filly"!
If dad's NEVER had anything but grey foals, and he's had a lot, there's a high chance he will only throw greys, but I wouldn't put money one it. If one of his parents isn't grey, then you know for sure he could have a non-grey baby. In some breeds a "homozygous grey" (double dose) is far more likely than others.


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## Enfys (6 August 2007)

This colour thing is fun isn't it?  

I play about on the Colour calculator quite a lot, but I'm afraid that I don't yet understand the technical stuff, such as agouti or silver carrier! 
	
	
		
		
	


	




   It used to be so much simpler in the old days when you had bays, greys, chestnuts etc and non of this silver bay, dusty black, dunalino, perlino etc, shades to confuse me 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 As for coloureds, well! I thought skewbald and piebald was the limit but since I got my paint mare I've just about got my head around all this tobiano/tovero/splash/frame/sabino/overo  ad infinitum malarkey. 

I was pretty startled when my bay mare (by a grey x bay) threw a palomino to a palomino stallion (history unknown), the percentage of that was pretty low and people seeing the horses out together often presume that the palomino stallion with them (not her sire) is the foals dam.


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## AimeeLou (6 August 2007)

all ways wanted to know, if you had a homozygous coloured and put them to a homozygous few spot, what would be the out come? A spotty coloured???


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## Enfys (6 August 2007)

Interesting to say the least! I think you would be guessing right up until it arrived. 
	
	
		
		
	


	





If I was breeding for colour and tried that combination, with my luck I would get a solid bay!


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## Spot_the_Risk (6 August 2007)

Well I put a few spot to a chesnut stallion, and knowing nothing, was sure I would get a chesnut, but ended up with a near leopard appaloosa!


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## ClaireT (6 August 2007)

have been trying the calculator, alas there is no 'brown'...wish my horse was one of those fancy colours!! 
	
	
		
		
	


	




Opie, care to hazard a guess as to what I'd get from my solid dark brown mare if I put her to McJonnas????
My OH says please can you make him one with a black coat and white mane &amp; tail


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## henryhorn (6 August 2007)

Our grey mares put to our stallion who is very dark bay almost black have all had grey foals...
They come out light bay colour almost chesnut, but they soon start to show their actual colour round their noses. 
I reckon you'll get grey..(dark going whiter later with age)


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## Damien (6 August 2007)

erm......... well, its simple really, if your mare carries the red gene she could have a palomino, but if she has no red gene which is possible, she may have a buckskin, but then again if she is not homozygous agouti she may produce a smokey black.... so to have a better inclination it's best to test her to see what she is. 
I am not sure about the silver part, I do not know why the dark chocolate palomino has a platimum mane and tail... need help from colour gurus on that one... I know he has a silver chrome sheen to him but do not know if that is what they call silver.


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## AimeeLou (6 August 2007)

http://www.horsetesting.com/CCalculator1.asp
Might help


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## PapaFrita (7 August 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
I use this-

http://www.horsetesting.com/CCalculator1.asp?Error=1 

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know what 80% of those colours are! Where's plain old dapple grey? I can't find any grey on the list, although there is a tick option separately for grey... I can't just tick that without ticking an option from the list... so which do I pick? 





Totally fascinating though!! 
	
	
		
		
	


	





ETS: Ok, worked it out (should've read instructions!) What if you don't know what colour a horse is before it went grey?


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## Damien (7 August 2007)

If you don't know what she is you can have her tested by pulling mane hairs and sending them off to an animal genetics lab the primciple one being the Univeristy of kentucky. its not expensive over here most ise Avian Biotechs who deal with everything but hair is tested in the US


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## SirenaXVI (7 August 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
You might find this of use!

http://www.animalgenetics.us/CCalculator1.asp

basically the foals can be any colour depending on the genes that each parent carries, so bay, chestnut, grey or black are all possibilities.... 

[/ QUOTE ]

I had my 'grey' mare genetically tested for colour by Animal Genetics as my breed registrar was convinced she was carrying the cream gene because as a foal she was a sort of chocolate dun - she came out homozygous agouti (bay)!  Sadly no cream or red genes 
	
	
		
		
	


	





Daniel at AG told me that in about six months time they should be able to test for the grey factor. 

I may well have my other mares tested (all are grey) just to see what  their true colours actually are and whether they carry double grey genes or not. am pretty sure that Lluna is only carrying one grey gene as she has already had a bay non greying foal (from a grey stally), she is currently in foal to a bay so fingers crossed I could get a bay.  The tests are not too expensive so worth it I think.


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## Damien (7 August 2007)

Daniel, really is fab isn't he, always so helpful! Agree it's fun knowing what their colour genetic makeup is.


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## DanielleP (7 August 2007)

"Our grey mares put to our stallion who is very dark bay almost black have all had grey foals...
They come out light bay colour almost chesnut, but they soon start to show their actual colour round their noses. 
I reckon you'll get grey..(dark going whiter later with age) "

Thanks! desperatly want a grey and not a chestnut, as least if it comes out a bit chestnutty i can cross my fingers it will change!


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## the watcher (7 August 2007)

I was struggling a bit with working out which colours to put in, my mouse dun mare (her dam started dun but turned grey, the stallion was dun) is going to be crossed with a chestnut..I am assuming I might get something with more red, but still with the dun markings, it will be interesting waiting to see what comes out and what the final colour is.


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