# do I need to start foal watch tonight?



## mynutmeg (6 May 2013)

Maidan mare who has consistently milk tested at ph 8. Tonight shes dropped to 7, calcium is about 300 and has steadily climbed over the last 3-4 days. 
Shes got a decent bag but not conpletely full. 

Im thinking that we need to start foal watch tonight but wanted a few more experienced opinions. We're on a livery yard so not the simplest


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## Spring Feather (6 May 2013)

mynutmeg said:



			Maidan mare who has consistently milk tested at ph 8. Tonight shes dropped to 7, calcium is about 300 and has steadily climbed over the last 3-4 days. 
Shes got a decent bag but not conpletely full. 

Im thinking that we need to start foal watch tonight but wanted a few more experienced opinions. We're on a livery yard so not the simplest 

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If she were one of my mares I personally wouldn't be on foal watch tonight and I wouldn't expect her to foal for another 2 or 3 days as her calcium is still not high enough for me to be convinced she'd foal so soon as tonight.  They have to be at 6.2ph or lower and to be in the 500-800 calcium range (depending on the mare) before you can slot them into the 'will foal within 24 hours' bracket.  I have foaled my mares numerous times so I have history with them (which is so valuable!).  If a maiden mare of mine was reading these numbers I would check ALL other signs and then decide whether or not to.  I would also check readings this evening and again later on before going to bed just to see what speed she is changing at.

However she is not mine, therefore you should do what you feel comfortable doing.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with going on foal watch too soon ... too many people go on it too late lol!


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## mynutmeg (6 May 2013)

Cool. Shall get pics and post once I get home.


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## Spring Feather (6 May 2013)

Yes please   I'm in and out though so may be a bit slow at getting back to you and I can't see the piccies on my phone very well so if you post I'll zip off back up to the house and check them out on my laptop


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## mynutmeg (6 May 2013)

No probs. Thank you.


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## JanetGeorge (6 May 2013)

mynutmeg said:



			Im thinking that we need to start foal watch tonight but wanted a few more experienced opinions.
		
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Now I'm an absolute expert!!  Yesterday, I got a couple of my new week-end staff in and showed them - in detail - all the signs they needed to be looking for to check if a mare was imminent!  And told them that THIS mare had at LEAST 48 hours to go.

Guess what?  i was at LEAST 36 hours out! 








Go with your gut feeling!


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## Amymay (6 May 2013)

What are the quarters doing, op?


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## mynutmeg (6 May 2013)

JG - that is just cute 

This is her on April 29th












This is tonight












April 29th






Tonight






April 21st






Tonight







Liquid coming out has gone pale/cloudy coloured and she is so dopey / chilled out and appetite is off a bit, she's eating but much more slowly than normal. Poop is pretty loose and she's all swollen up in her vulva as well as it being really floppy.

My current plan is to head back up in a couple of hours and re-test and see what she's like then. If ph hasn't changed then am planning to come back home but if ph or calcium have changed at all then will stay up and keep watch. I don't honestly think it will be tonight but within the next few days


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## mynutmeg (6 May 2013)

Have been back tonight and ph hasnt changed. Calcium has jumped to about 400 or so. Milk doesnt really taste of anything. She is completely chilled and calm. No sweating or anything so dont think its going to be tonight. Guessing tomorrow but will retest in the morning.


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## Spring Feather (6 May 2013)

Oh don't you just love those maidens who won't play by the rules lol.  If it weren't for you milk testing your mare and you were just going by all her other signs, she looks like she still has weeks to go before foaling.

My two mares that are due before end of play tomorrow are more than ready to drop.  My farm has been quite busy today with lots of people coming up to look at the new additions so I think they've been putting these two mares off a little.  It's quiet now though so hopefully they'll both go before dark.  It'll be light here for another 2-3 hours.  One is a maiden and her bag is the size of a house!


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## mynutmeg (6 May 2013)

Mm, although looking at her tonight she looks like she's dropped a bit but nowhere near as much as I'd expect. 
Going from milk I expect tomorrow, maybe the day after

She was way to chilled out when we were up about 10:30-11 this evening. But shes def got less appetite. Has eaten all her dinner but took ages to do it and normally she is very greedy. 

Good luck with yours and shall let you know tomorrow mornings results


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## Spring Feather (7 May 2013)

My 'daytime-foaler' mare foaled tonight at 8pm while it was still sunny and bright   She's such a funny mare; she never foals in the dark lol!  The other one due to foal tonight/tomorrow is a maiden so I don't know whether she will foal in the middle of the night or not.  None of mine have ever foaled through the night before so will be interesting to see when she goes.  It would be nice if she foaled before I toddle on upstairs.  

Looking forward to hearing your readings tomorrow   Are you starting to get excited?


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## Magicmadge (7 May 2013)

I agree with s feather looking at the latest udder pic she doesnt look close, my shetland mare is about 310 at the most and her udder is a little bigger than your girl. Having said that the last mare i foaled was a maiden and she didnt fill properly until 2 days before she foaled. She fully bagged up, waxed,dripped and foaled in 48 hours, we were on day 359 though. I didnt milk test right at the end as all those other signs were there as well as change in behaviour so i was watching closely. She foaled at midnight. As your milk test is suggesting she is getting near, just keep doing as your are doing, as my girl proved changes can happen very quickly in maidens.  I plan to start milk tests this weekend, i am very excited about this foal , ad it will be my last, and i am determined not to miss its birth. Camera is on, milk strips ready, cant wait!!!!


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## Magicmadge (7 May 2013)

This is my girl this morning approx 310 days















I will get some more later when i  have more time. All signs are there exept for bursting bag. She has a puffy vulva at times and is bum pressing a lot as well as licking and yawning. Fluid is still thin and pale yellow. You can really see how relaxed her bottom is in that pic, it feels like jelly too. I am hoping she will foal before the end of this month as i have lots of time off work, but best plans and all that!!!


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## ElleSkywalker (7 May 2013)

*bounces in hijacking* MM how is ur girl bred? She looks very like my Shetland


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## Magicmadge (7 May 2013)

This is my little  Maddie she is  By Wells Torr (Wells Vijay, Wells Tara) out of Tallwrynisaff Black Beauty (Pickering Gors Tobias, Talwrn Tammy) Maddie is in foal to Hose Millet. This will be her second foal, but first with me. She had a colt first time round.


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## mynutmeg (7 May 2013)

Ph is still 7. Calcium is about 400 this morning


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## Spring Feather (7 May 2013)

mynutmeg said:



			Ph is still 7. Calcium is about 400 this morning
		
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Seems like she's getting there slowly   Do you have a piccy of her vulva?

My maiden foaled very early this morning and that's all of my girls done for this season.  I'm very pleased with my 2013 foals and I'm thankful all went well with no hiccups


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## mynutmeg (7 May 2013)

This is last night


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## mynutmeg (7 May 2013)

We're going to stay at the yard tonight as her ph has dropped below 7, its jot quite at 6 yet but is def paler than 7. Also her milk has gone kinda cloudy and was quite sticky. Not proper colostrum yet I dont think tho. Calciums around 400 still hut loads more milk there tonight ans her vulva has slackened off more. 

Not sure if shes going to go tonight or if us being here might disturb her a bit but if nothing else it lets her get used to us being on the yard


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## Magicmadge (7 May 2013)

ooo good luck tonight, will look forward to an update in the morning. I did my first milk test tonight, nowhere near  yet for me.


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## Spring Feather (7 May 2013)

She may not go tonight (mine wouldn't on those readings) but better to be there than not just in case. I can be much more relaxed about it as mine go on foalcam and my house is just a matter of steps away from their foaling boxes. Looking forward to seeing the foal in the end though


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## mynutmeg (8 May 2013)

We've got a camera set up and are camped out in the next door stable. Sister and I are taking turns as being awake to watch her - if figure even 30 min checks she'll pop it out inbetween. Its amazing how comfy you can make a horses bed with some rugs and a sleeping bag 
If nothing we're able to become aqauinted with her night time habits


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## Queenbee (8 May 2013)

Mynutmeg... I have nothing useful to say other than if she doesn't get a move on give me your address and ill come squeeze the bloody foal out for you... I'm very good with squeezing a tube of toothpaste 

Janet George... Can I come play with your foal?  Absolutely adorable!  Now don't get me wrong, I have nothing against human babies, but foals, puppies and kittens... They are what get me clucking like a broody hen!  Lovely little foal JG


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## mynutmeg (8 May 2013)

Queenbee said:



			Mynutmeg... I have nothing useful to say other than if she doesn't get a move on give me your address and ill come squeeze the bloody foal out for you... I'm very good with squeezing a tube of toothpaste 

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Please do - we've been discussing what bribes would work, we came up with either mints hung off tail to encourage foal (mare loves mints) or whether to bribe mare with a years supply of apples and mints in one go (with vet on standby for resulting colic)

Technically she isn't acutally due till next week but we milk tested again this morning (as no sprog was apparent) and the ph paper didn't really change colour at all and calcium is around 400 odd still.
The milk coming out is cloudy and sticky!. Doesn't taste sweet tho, not yet.
Her back legs have started filling and her udder is huge although there is still a crease in the middle, really easy to milk now.

She can just hurry up and pop tonight as am too knackered to do this for long - am so glad I'm off work!


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## carolineg (8 May 2013)

We're on foal watch too  camera in stable which is 60m from house. I'm thinking sleep on sofa checking camera every hour so as not to drive OH round the bend!! We're day 340 today, full bag, foal dropped, clear liquid from teats, mare very quiet....soo excited!


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## Choccie (9 May 2013)

My maiden mare is day 347 and i'm not convinced she will foal before i go back to work on monday!


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## mynutmeg (9 May 2013)

Well still no foal grrrr. Queenbee - fancy a trip to cumbria? Pursuade the little monster to come out 

On a good (I think note


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## mynutmeg (9 May 2013)

Bloomin phones
On a good (I think) note her behaviour last night was totally different from previous night. First night she lay down loads, slept loads etc. Last night the first half she was really restless to the point we thought she might be in the first stage then she settled down and simply stood at the stable door for the second half of the night
Milk test this morning is prob 500 or calcium (  my strips dont seem terribly accruate at higher levels) and the litmus paper didnt really change colour at all for ph so def below 7.


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## JanetGeorge (9 May 2013)

Queenbee said:



			Janet George... Can I come play with your foal?  Absolutely adorable!  Now don't get me wrong, I have nothing against human babies, but foals, puppies and kittens... They are what get me clucking like a broody hen!  Lovely little foal JG
		
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You like living dangerously, do you Queenbee??  She may LOOK adorable but she is an 'orribly opinionated little MONSTER!  Leading her to turnout is back-breaking - she bucks all the way there (and all the way back!)  And to avoid being caught, he'll shoot past you and present both barrells!  She's running Mum ragged too!


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## carolineg (9 May 2013)

mynutmeg said:



			Well still no foal grrrr. Queenbee - fancy a trip to cumbria? Pursuade the little monster to come out 

On a good (I think note
		
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Ours didn't appear either but mare only lay down for a couple of hours and was more restless this morning she keeps looking round at her belly, resting different feet and lifting her tail. She's gone out in the paddock and is now grazing happily  day 341 today


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## mynutmeg (9 May 2013)

We're at day 334 today, vet reckoned she would go on the 4th so he's out


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## mel_s (9 May 2013)

You could have ages yet. It'll come when its ready......


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## Spring Feather (9 May 2013)

mynutmeg said:



			Milk test this morning is prob 500 or calcium (  my strips dont seem terribly accruate at higher levels) and the litmus paper didnt really change colour at all for ph so def below 7.
		
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What strips are you using?  I use a few different brands but the Aquachek ones are my favourite as their colours are really clear to read.  A tip I'd give is if you are unsure about the readings then take a photo of the strip.  A friend of mine kept telling me last week that her mare was testing 6.4ph and 600 calcium which sounds about right ... but she was reading this for about 5 days lol!  So I said something isn't right there lol and asked her to email me the photo, the reading was actually 8.4ph and 200 calcium and that's why the mare still hasn't foaled and she's still reading these levels


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## mynutmeg (9 May 2013)

Not sure on the brands. Its water hardness ones for the calcium with a little.pad on the bottom. Thr guide you check against  has various matches and the top two are very similar in colour and go from 425 and the next is 1000ppm. Thr ph I am testing with bssic litmus paper, totally seperate from the calcium strips. She was solidly at 8 for ages then dropped to 7 for a couple of days and is now somewhere between 6-7. Thr paper is a yellowie colour and doesn't really change now. Milk is cloudy creamy colour and quite sticky but not yet sweet. 

Shall get more photos tonight and sre if I can work out how to upload from my phone


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## Lady Supreme (9 May 2013)

My mare went 323 days and had none of the signs that suggest imminent arrival. Except, Sunday 24th March, late afternoon she was shivering. It was very cold so that's what I put it down to and rugged her to warm her up :-0 I'd had a friend going down at 10 every night to check on her for me. I'm a   'not very well person', who takes very strong meds at night which was why my friend was doing nightly checks for me. The night of 24th at 10.30, she rang me  to say that Bella was running milk and could she take the rug off! Sadly, not only did I not remember the phone call but I fell asleep with the phone in my hand! I'm up at 5am every day and was having a cup of tea and the phone rang at 5.30 am to tell me 'Congratulations, you have a foal'.Tea forgotten, I drove to stables that are just 2 mins away from me and there he was, safe and sound, delivered with no human interference. I was disappointed that I hadn't been present but knowing me,I would have interfered. As soon as vets opened,  I rang them and mare and foal passed checks with flying colours. So, all that to say that your mare will foal when she's ready but it's your mare and you can be 'on foal duty' when you want to be. Not all mares read the text books on foaling  Best of luck. My red/white colt is 6 weeks old now and it feels like he's been here forever. He brings me so much pleasure and I'm sure yours will too. Looking forward to seeing the pics.


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## mynutmeg (9 May 2013)

Cant seem to copy pic location over on phone grrr
However I think ph has dropped snd is def in the 6 range snd calcium has gone up some more. Now getting soya milk looking liquid. 
Whats really interesting (sure I'm not imagining it) is that her belly seems to be jumping all over the place tonight. Never seen it do that before and she keeps looking round at it. Foally is usually pretty still snd you have to stand for a while to feel even a small kick so hoping that shes in first stages.Please send some foaling vibes and a swift kick up the butt to roo to evict thr little monster


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## mynutmeg (10 May 2013)

Well still no foal arrgghh. Shes gonna pick tonight while im at s party isnt she?  At least I have a fab sister ehos gonna do the early part of fosl watch and a fab mom whos going to pick me up and drop me at the yard so I csn still go


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## mynutmeg (10 May 2013)

this is the milk from last night and the test strips


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## Choccie (10 May 2013)

mynutmeg said:



			Well still no foal arrgghh. Shes gonna pick tonight while im at s party isnt she?  At least I have a fab sister ehos gonna do the early part of fosl watch and a fab mom whos going to pick me up and drop me at the yard so I csn still go 

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I know how you feel, my life is on hold and i've rescheduled my Saturday night out until the end of the month!


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## whirlwindhorses (10 May 2013)

mynutmeg said:



			this is the milk from last night and the test strips


















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Her milk is the right colour. Has she got any wax? Most get wax although sometimes only just before they foal, and some get wax about 10 days before they foal! I used to use test strips, but they aren't much use with three of my mares so now i just go on colour of milk. Can you lift her tail (bone) up without her resisting it?


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## Spring Feather (10 May 2013)

Ooh gawd I couldn't use those strips lol!  I wouldn't have a clue what they are saying   However, the milk does look the right colour.  What is the consistency of the milk?  Runny or thick and gloopier?


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## Deli (10 May 2013)

My mare is 323 days. 

Udder:















From behind:








Belly:








Vulva:









Her milk is clear and watery.

Do I have long to wait?


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## Spring Feather (10 May 2013)

You have a little while to wait, going by your photos and description of the fluid coming out of her teats.  I'd say she looks fairly on track for foaling around the average due date, maybe a little after.  She still has a way to go on her bag filling up and her vulva isn't ready yet.


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## whirlwindhorses (10 May 2013)

Deli said:



			My mare is 323 days. 

Udder:















From behind:








Belly:








Vulva:









Her milk is clear and watery.

Do I have long to wait?
		
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I've got two mares that look like yours and i'm not expecting them to do anything for about another 10-14 days yet. I've never had one foal with clear watery/see through milk. They can change quickly though.  Your mares bag needs to get a lot fuller and will look flat from the back.


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## Deli (10 May 2013)

I want to test the milk but the bag is really tight and only a few droplets come out. Her quarters are quite slack and her legs are quite puffy. Its her first foal.


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## mel_s (10 May 2013)

i'll post my pic later of my test strips and what the milk looks like for you if i remember!

I wasnt testing daily but i do have pics of milk changes from various points, as well as a pic of the milk and the test strip on the evening that the foal actually came.


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## mynutmeg (10 May 2013)

whirlwindhorses said:



			Her milk is the right colour. Has she got any wax? Most get wax although sometimes only just before they foal, and some get wax about 10 days before they foal! I used to use test strips, but they aren't much use with three of my mares so now i just go on colour of milk. Can you lift her tail (bone) up without her resisting it?
		
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She doesn't normally resist much anyway, usually assists you, especially if you tickle the underside. Shall try tonight tho



Spring Feather said:



			Ooh gawd I couldn't use those strips lol!  I wouldn't have a clue what they are saying   However, the milk does look the right colour.  What is the consistency of the milk?  Runny or thick and gloopier?
		
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I live in quite a small area and couldn't find anything suitable locally - non of the fish ones seemed to do calcium and they were all liquids and no pool places at all  These are what I could find online that looked about right 

Milk isn't massively creamy but definately thicker last night than yesterday morning and was thicker again this morning - went everywhere when we milked rather than neat streams  It's pretty sticky as well.


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## Spring Feather (10 May 2013)

mynutmeg said:



			Milk isn't massively creamy but definately thicker last night than yesterday morning and was thicker again this morning - went everywhere when we milked rather than neat streams  It's pretty sticky as well.
		
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Then it sounds like she isn't too far away from foaling


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## mynutmeg (10 May 2013)

Deli said:



			I want to test the milk but the bag is really tight and only a few droplets come out. Her quarters are quite slack and her legs are quite puffy. Its her first foal.
		
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Roo was like this the first 4 or 5 days I was testing with only getting a few drops of liquid. Over the last 5-6 days she has increasingly been easier to milk


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## Lady Supreme (10 May 2013)

Can I just ask, doesn't all this milking lose valuable colostrum?  My mare has foaled, so hopefully I can ask these questions without scareing myself!


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## mynutmeg (10 May 2013)

Lady Supreme said:



			Can I just ask, doesn't all this milking lose valuable colostrum?  My mare has foaled, so hopefully I can ask these questions without scareing myself!
		
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My understanding is that the colostrum hasn't actually come through yet - it's kinda a pre-milk that you're testing. Also I'm taking about 1-2mm a time so not much


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## mel_s (10 May 2013)

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=611613

I've put my pics on for you.


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## Lady Supreme (10 May 2013)

Mynutmeg, thanks for the info. I was too worried to even touch my mare's teats. Foaled on her own in the end with no probes, so the Winnie the Pooh baby's bottle I had ready to catch milk with colostrum in, is unused!


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## Queenbee (10 May 2013)

mynutmeg said:



			Roo was like this the first 4 or 5 days I was testing with only getting a few drops of liquid. Over the last 5-6 days she has increasingly been easier to milk
		
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Just sayin

I'm getting impatient now Mynutmeg...  The offer is there if you want me to help


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## mynutmeg (11 May 2013)

Me too. Sister says it looks like shes got milk down her back legs and calcium is higher


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## Deli (16 May 2013)

We had wax last night and now its gone. Milk still looks a bit yellow but is coming out much easier now. 

I stayed out on foal watch last night, I am questioning whether I am wasting my time as only on day 329. She is very uncomfortable now, doesn't want to go out in field and lots of movement in her tummy


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## mynutmeg (16 May 2013)

Going from my limited experience of one mare I'd say you have a little while to go. 
I would highly recommend milk testing as we only had 4 nights on eatch because of that. 
With roo there was a definate change over 3-4 days from yellow to clear to white coloured in her milk and she had white for maybe 2 days before foaling


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## Spring Feather (16 May 2013)

Your mare Deli, still looks on track for foaling around the average due date (343 days), I'd guess probably later than that.


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## Deli (16 May 2013)

The milk testing came back high (8.4) it looked the same as the other lady on here who missed her foal. 

Last year I had a mare who had NO signs and she popped him out during the day in the field. 

I think this is why I am overthinking it!


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## whirlwindhorses (16 May 2013)

How big is her bag? Does it look flat at the back (no line between each side of teats). Is the milk clear yellow? I've had a few with gold wax, it will turn white eventually, normally. One of my mares who looked like yours last week has now got a full bag but no wax yet, i can't check her milk because she has made it perfectly clear that she does not like me milking her! Milk can go from clear yellow to proper milk within 48 hours but can also be like it for a week or more. It will gradually get cloudier and whiter. If its still clear yellow then if she was mine i would check her late at night and then first thing in morning.


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## Spring Feather (16 May 2013)

With milk testing you don't just pick and choose what readings you follow.  The calcium will always rise first.  In the lady's readings that you are mentioning her mare tested at 800-1000 calcium.  That is VERY high calcium reading and had it been my mare I would definitely have expected it to foal on that.  Her pH readings of 8.4 would have dropped dramatically if she had tested the mare again that night.  If your reading for pH is 8.4 and your calcium readings are 1000 then yes I'd expect your mare to foal, however if your calcium readings are 200 (for example) then no she's not going to foal.

If she were my mare I wouldn't even be milk testing her yet as there are no other signs there that would make me think she's about to drop her foal.  Her vulva doesn't look anywhere near ready, the foal doesn't look to be in the right position and her bag looks like it's just started filling.  I don't milk test any mares until all the other signs are in place, and even then I only do a couple of times.


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## Deli (16 May 2013)

Thank you. The milk looks very watery and a hint of yellow. That has put my mind at ease that I'm not a bad owner not doing 2 hourly checks. I will keep monitoring her, of course.


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## Iwantcandy (16 May 2013)

I've been following this thread with great interest as my mare is at day 314 now.

Spring Feather - thank you for sharing so much of your knowledge - it is incredibly useful and I've printed quite a few threads off that you have contributed to as there is so much info there!

I have also come across a great website - that has some great photos under the 'Foaling Section' which some of you might find helpful too. It's called yellowhouseranch.com - they're not selling anything as they don't breed any more and have just kept their web site running to help others


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## mynutmeg (16 May 2013)

Iwantcandy said:



			I've been following this thread with great interest as my mare is at day 314 now.

Spring Feather - thank you for sharing so much of your knowledge - it is incredibly useful and I've printed quite a few threads off that you have contributed to as there is so much info there!

I have also come across a great website - that has some great photos under the 'Foaling Section' which some of you might find helpful too. It's called yellowhouseranch.com - they're not selling anything as they don't breed any more and have just kept their web site running to help others 

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I would like to echo the thanks - SF you have been a superb source of info and always willing to help. Thank you so much


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## Spring Feather (16 May 2013)

My pleasure   I've been milk testing for a lot of years now and have seen lots of different scenarios with it, and kind of perfected how I read the readings after doing it so many times.  I've also seen mares who have read the book and do everything how it's supposed to be, and then I've had mares who most certainly don't lol!  I've seen some very odd things happen where milk testing is concerned, which confused me at the time but then foaling the mare/s out following years, have actually helped me understand why what happened, happened.  It's all a learning process and I'm still learning about it, but for the most part I have a pretty strong handle on what milk testing tells you.  I always say to people who are new to milk testing, the results may not always tell you that the mare will foal within 24 hours, but it WILL tell you when she won't!   I'm only passing on my experiences with using it as another medium and hopefully it helps someone along the way.


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## mynutmeg (16 May 2013)

Spring Feather said:



			My pleasure   I've been milk testing for a lot of years now and have seen lots of different scenarios with it, and kind of perfected how I read the readings after doing it so many times.  I've also seen mares who have read the book and do everything how it's supposed to be, and then I've had mares who most certainly don't lol!  I've seen some very odd things happen where milk testing is concerned, which confused me at the time but then foaling the mare/s out following years, have actually helped me understand why what happened, happened.  It's all a learning process and I'm still learning about it, but for the most part I have a pretty strong handle on what milk testing tells you.  I always say to people who are new to milk testing, the results may not always tell you that the mare will foal within 24 hours, but it WILL tell you when she won't!   I'm only passing on my experiences with using it as another medium and hopefully it helps someone along the way.
		
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Definately helped me - as we reckoned from the pics she wasn't ready to go but the milk said otherwise so we had 4 nights of foal watch and managed to be there for the foaling


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## Deli (16 May 2013)

Just done a calcium test and its come back 100. Long way to go yet


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