# Black stallion - any suggestions



## maggiemoto (28 June 2010)

We are looking for a black stallion for our mare for next year. Ideally needs to be 16hh at least, excellent temperament essential. Our mare is a mw cob, very short coupled but has superb extended paces. Our ideal stallion must have a nice head, not coarse in any way and good length of neck. Breed not important but ideally TB blood would be good for our mare.


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## Eothain (28 June 2010)

Billy Congo or Totilas.

I'm completely ignoring everything you said except for black stallion


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## eventrider23 (28 June 2010)

Sir Frederic or Uthopia??


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## charliesarmy (28 June 2010)

Roulette....Ganton Beltaine *although I think he may be classed as Bay/Black*


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## jomiln (29 June 2010)

Thornwick Challenger - Irish Sports Horse


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## sallyf (29 June 2010)

An inch too small at 15.3 but our TB Stallion Groomsbridge May I is black


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## magic104 (29 June 2010)

maggiemoto said:



			We are looking for a black stallion for our mare for next year. Ideally needs to be 16hh at least, excellent temperament essential. Our mare is a mw cob, very short coupled but has superb extended paces. Our ideal stallion must have a nice head, not coarse in any way and good length of neck. Breed not important but ideally TB blood would be good for our mare.
		
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What is your budget, are you looking at natural or AI?  Do you have a photo of the mare?  Would probably stick with a TB or something with as little a mix as possible.


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## FrodoBeutlin (29 June 2010)

What about Hohenstein or Sarkozy?


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## wonder (29 June 2010)

We have 2 black stallions one Dutch and one Trakhaener.  Both 16.1.  Our dutch stallion throws big foals.


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## catts (29 June 2010)

Jumbo


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## _jetset_ (29 June 2010)

The black ones I can think of are Santana at Holdenfold Stud, or SAMgirl's stallion Vinny (AES approved by Gribaldi... beautiful horse) who I would very much like to use myself.


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## Halfstep (29 June 2010)

Woodlander Rockstar, but he probably is not a good match as he doesn't have a great length of neck.


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## Tempi (29 June 2010)

Did you want to produce a black foal then?

My mare is in foal to Vinny who is owned by SAMGirl.  I think the foal will be bay though - im not quite sure how colourings work though.....

Here he is:


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## magic104 (29 June 2010)

Colin Diamond


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## Whizz105 (29 June 2010)

how about

www.wolkenderry.co.uk


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## magic104 (29 June 2010)

http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?d=Pall+Mall+H&x=35&y=9


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## Toast (29 June 2010)

Demonstrator?
x


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## whirlwindhorses (29 June 2010)

To get black both mare and stallion have to carry black, and even then you still have a chance of getting a bay foal, and if both carry chestnut then you could end up with chestnut too! Ive seen Woodlander Rockstar, he has a bay muzzle and is actually dark bay not black, lovely stallion though!


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## ESH_Jess (29 June 2010)

What colour is your mare?


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## maggiemoto (29 June 2010)

Firstly, thank you all for your very helpful suggestions. I will post a photo later once I have an offspring at home this evening to do it for me!

Our mare is a blue roan tobiano. She is heterozygous tobiano and black and carries the red factor.  As we understand it, if mated to a black stallion we should have a 50 - 50 chance of either black or blue roan. 

She is a fantastic mare with an unbelievable temperament. She is not a hairy cob, carrying very little feather. She is a superb hacker, jumps 1 metre with ease and has wonderful paces, a very good walk, ground covering trot and lovely canter.  We are schooling now to improve her flatwork and hope to go hunting in the Autumn (if I am allowed to say that without giving offence!). She is very adaptable: when Mum rides (me) she knows that I have reached the stage when I don't want to go careering about so is very careful but adjusts the pace accordingly when my daughter rides. She is forward going without being silly.  She is an extremely good doer presumably coming from her breeding which, we suspect is made up of Welsh D, perhaps a little bit of Shire somewhere and something coloured. We want a foal that will be 16hh to accomodate a growing daughter, but with more refinement than its mum, who already has plenty of bone and is short coupled but very free moving. Mum does have a fairly short neck so we would like to find a stallion that can improve that and is not too short coupled.  Our thoughts are that a TB or TB breeding could bring the refinement we are looking for but would welcome suggestions.  A black stallion of the right type would be our first choice but we would not compromise the colour for quality.

For the purists out there: here is the embarrasing bit.  We do not know our mare's actual breeding (sadly) nor is she registered. To us, she is just what we want but we would like to breed a foal from her for us to keep. As regards stud fee, we are looking at no more than £500 which should give us some choice hopefully. Good, trainable temperament is essential.


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## crellow4 (29 June 2010)

Have you considered Amoureux - I think he is homozygous for black.


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## Simsar (29 June 2010)

Eothain said:



			Billy Congo or Totilas.

I'm completely ignoring everything you said except for black stallion
		
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And a grey stallion would be????


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## puc (29 June 2010)

crellow4 said:



			Have you considered Amoureux - I think he is homozygous for black.
		
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Yes i'm pretty sure he is homozygous for dark.

But, did Amoureux not fail his licensing with the Scottish Sports Horse Society?  

You would need a homozygous black stallion in order to eliminate the red factor (chestnut).  A black coated stallion can carry a hidden chestnut gene (like your mare) as chestnut is recessive.  For example i saw someone suggested Wolkenderry, he is a black coated stallion but must carry a chestnut gene as he has had chestnut foals.


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## FanyDuChamp (29 June 2010)

This is nice
http://www.stallionsonline.co.uk/stallion_30786.html

Or 
http://www.stallionsonline.co.uk/stallion_30124.html

Top of your budget but gorgeous Wolkenderry
http://www.stallionsonline.co.uk/stallion_29410.html

Nice but an older advert.
http://www.stallionsonline.co.uk/stallion_16931.html

Homozygous black and pretty Amoureux
http://www.stallionsonline.co.uk/stallion_15994.html

And my favourite, though I am biase in favour of the dutch horses.
http://www.stallionsonline.co.uk/stallion_32775.html

Good luck whatever you choose and look forward to seeing you new addition!

FDC


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## ESH_Jess (30 June 2010)

Am I allowed to put a link?? As my stallion is a homozygous black, long legged, pretty headed, elegant stallion with a wonderful temperament so pretty much ticks all the boxes!!


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## magic104 (30 June 2010)

ESH_Jess said:



			Am I allowed to put a link?? As my stallion is a homozygous black, long legged, pretty headed, elegant stallion with a wonderful temperament so pretty much ticks all the boxes!!
		
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Yea go for it.


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## Jackpotsstud (30 June 2010)

How about Flammengold?  He has a super temperament and throws foals with super temperament and lovely paces.


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## ruby1 (30 June 2010)

Hemminway is a lovely black stallion. He is not homzygous black but is free from the chestnut gene. KWPN and AES approved. Down side for you maybe is that his stud fee is £600 but plus side is its £250 oct first terms.

Santano Hit is a stunning black homozygous stallion .


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## koeffee (30 June 2010)

my mare is by hemmingway and she is a nice bay thing!!! no help sorry but she is a sweet thing


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## maggiemoto (30 June 2010)

Hi everyone,

Here's a photo of our mare we wish to put to a Black Stallion:
- She's losing her winter clip in this, hence weird coat!







And yes, she is flying! Haha.


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## meandmyself (30 June 2010)

Really? I'd chose temperament, conformation and movement first before colour. That should be the last thing you pick.


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## magic104 (1 July 2010)

meandmyself said:



			Really? I'd chose temperament, conformation and movement first before colour. That should be the last thing you pick. 

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Do you not believe with the choice out there that choosing a colour narrows it down a little?  I dont think there is anything wrong in wanting a particular colour so long as temperment/conformation & movement are not sacrificed.  I am sure the poster feels the same.


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## maggiemoto (1 July 2010)

Meandmyself: so would I. The colour is the last thing to consider but, as Magic says, there are so many very good stallions out there, it should be possible to find one that would suit our mare and produce a colour that we would like. We would not compromise temperament, etc just to get a certain colour but, as we want to breed a foal which we will hopefully be looking at for the next 30 years, it would be nice to have one which is our preferred colour if possible. From what we have seen ourselves and the extremely helpful suggestions which folk have suggested in reply to our posts, I do not think that there could be any question of us substituting quality for colour.


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## Spotnik (13 July 2010)

Whizz105 said:



			how about

www.wolkenderry.co.uk

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I think Wolkenderry is definitely one to watch for the future, he is a very impressive looking chap with a very powerful trot.


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## Toast (13 July 2010)

I quite like Santo Hit... hes homo for black!
x


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## Clodagh (14 July 2010)

I would have to vote Groomsbridge May I. Hes black, although only 15.3 seems to throw big foals, he has the most fantastic temperament and hes in your price range.
As shes breeding unknown it would be safer to go to a tb, as you said, as then you only have 50% unknown genes!


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## Simsar (14 July 2010)

What about Give me Remus.

http://www.stallionsonline.co.uk/stallion_22854.html


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## nogsthenog (14 July 2010)

Have you thought of Spanish Stallions?  Mine is black but does carry chestnut so probably no good but i mention them because for temperament and trainability they are not easily beaten.  A traditional Spanish head has a fine muzzle.  Granted there are not many black stallions at stud but if you want me to find you some, let me know.  

Emma


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## fruity (14 July 2010)

Tempi said:



			Did you want to produce a black foal then?

My mare is in foal to Vinny who is owned by SAMGirl.  I think the foal will be bay though - im not quite sure how colourings work though.....

Here he is:






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Ooooh my mare is going to go to Ganton Beltaine next spring (fingers crossed) but now i've seen him,ooohhh sexy boy! He is gorgeous! Would love to know more about him.


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## Whizz105 (14 July 2010)

nogsthenog said:



			Have you thought of Spanish Stallions?  Mine is black but does carry chestnut so probably no good but i mention them because for temperament and trainability they are not easily beaten.  A traditional Spanish head has a fine muzzle.  Granted there are not many black stallions at stud but if you want me to find you some, let me know.  

Emma
		
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sorry slightly off topic!
Are you noggins mum? Been keeping an eye on him for 2 years now with interest xx
my first foal was with romero xxv and they are indeed intelligent kind and quick to learn x admire the breed very much x


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## nogsthenog (14 July 2010)

Hello Whizz, yes I am Noggins mum. 

Do you have photos of your foal?  Is it the one on your signature?  I am thinking about stallions for my mares in future years and I am always keen to see the offspring of the boys in this country.  

The lady who does our stallion semen collections always comments that Noggin is good to allow me to handle him day to day, cover mares naturally in hand with him, turn him into a field with one of my mares,get him to mount our dummy for collections and ride him but I am so used to this breed (in particular our Nog) that i expect him to just get on with whatever the job of the day is and all (except the riding) in a halter.  So yes i completely agree with you, I am a definite fan of this breed - they are a joy to have around.

I hope you are enjoying your youngster - colt or filly?  What breed is your mare?

I think Rom is bay isnt he?  Shame he isnt black as he probably would have been a candidate for maggiemoto's mare.  Ive never seen him in the flesh.

If you are ever in Dorset, give us a bell and i will put the kettle on.  


Maggiemoto,

Are you looking for natural covering or AI?  Also how tall is your mare?  I'm useless at judging height and even worse when doing it from a photo.
If you were looking into the Spanish route, the breed should be short coupled but there are some longer backed ones out there.

Have fun hunting for the perfect match.


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## 2Conker (13 November 2010)

charliesarmy said:



			Roulette....Ganton Beltaine *although I think he may be classed as Bay/Black*
		
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Think you'll find he's dark brown - just like his mum, well, and his sire Suluk).  Not black definitely.


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## immoralorchid (13 November 2010)

http://www.flaxlion.com/index.php?page=st-moritz-junior

i love this chap makes my heart go all a flutter


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## alex2 (13 November 2010)

Skelton Blacklist is a young black TB stallion standing in Yorkshire. I've bought a foal by him this year and she is super. They have a website, just search for the stallion's name.


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## xena_wales (13 November 2010)

ruby1 said:



			Hemminway is a lovely black stallion. He is not homzygous black but is free from the chestnut gene.
		
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Huh?  Surely if he doesn't carry red then he is homozygous black?


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## angrovestud (13 November 2010)

If your looking for temperament first and movement and some black and some white then maybe hes for your mare he 3/4 Tb so would add refinement and hes terribly elegant.
he does carry a red gene but to date has never thrown it when used on bay or black horses only chestnuts, you can see all his progeny on our web site,


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## hippomaniac (13 November 2010)

I was in Wiltshire the other day and went to see a black colt they are getting ready for grading, by Don Ricos, he is called Don Riccardo, I was very impressed this is one to wach for the future stands about 17hh


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## competitiondiva (13 November 2010)

I'm surprised no one has yet suggested Stravinsky, black tb so at least you'll have a fairer idea of what build the foal will be with the unknown breeding of your mare. added to that he has some very nice stock on the ground:

http://www.ranbyhall.com/stravinsky.html


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## Gucci_b (13 November 2010)

I know of a lovely black stallion, p.m me for details


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## magic104 (14 November 2010)

competitiondiva said:



			I'm surprised no one has yet suggested Stravinsky, black tb so at least you'll have a fairer idea of what build the foal will be with the unknown breeding of your mare. added to that he has some very nice stock on the ground:

http://www.ranbyhall.com/stravinsky.html





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What is his stud fee though, it might be over budget


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## magic104 (14 November 2010)

Never heard of this one mentioned before? http://www.sporthorse-data.com/sirepages.htm?id=10406608


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## Lexie81 (14 November 2010)

San Liberty is beautiful my friend has a colt by him who is fab and i have seen some more of his foals which have all been stunning.


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## sallyf (14 November 2010)

competitiondiva said:



			I'm surprised no one has yet suggested Stravinsky, black tb so at least you'll have a fairer idea of what build the foal will be with the unknown breeding of your mare. added to that he has some very nice stock on the ground:

http://www.ranbyhall.com/stravinsky.html





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Thats probably because Stravinsky died last year and would only be available frozen


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## competitiondiva (14 November 2010)

sallyf said:



			Thats probably because Stravinsky died last year and would only be available frozen
		
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Oh gosh, I did wonder if it might be something like that, I didn't realise, RIP stravinsky.......


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## immoralorchid (14 November 2010)

i love this stallion thinking of using him on my girl 







[YOUTUBE]zIDtBXUMHCs[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]muQhiCVpLq8[/YOUTUBE]


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## Zulu (14 November 2010)

immoralorchid said:



			i love this stallion thinking of using him on my girl 







[YOUTUBE]zIDtBXUMHCs[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]muQhiCVpLq8[/YOUTUBE]
		
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All being well, we have a foal by him due next year ;-)


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## immoralorchid (14 November 2010)

omg how exciting what have you bred to him i might be breeding my dales pony mare to him to make a hunter and allround fab riding horse she has a fab temperment and is well put together even vet said she would make a nice foal oh please keep in touch and let me know how your lovely foal turns out all being well 

omg just have to say again how excited i am for you i really think he is so beautiful and he really moves and floats oh your going to have such a lovely foal


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## FoalLover (14 November 2010)

Super Trooper de Ness....fits all except not a TB ..... and £500 till end of this month


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## Amazona (14 November 2010)

We have a lovely sweet natured boy standing next year .... Selle Francais Show jumper 
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?d=didiman&sex=&color=&dog_breed=any&birthyear=&birthland=
      By the Famous Didi


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## Zulu (14 November 2010)

immoralorchid said:



			omg how exciting what have you bred to him i might be breeding my dales pony mare to him to make a hunter and allround fab riding horse she has a fab temperment and is well put together even vet said she would make a nice foal oh please keep in touch and let me know how your lovely foal turns out all being well 

omg just have to say again how excited i am for you i really think he is so beautiful and he really moves and floats oh your going to have such a lovely foal
		
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My Swedish mare is in foal to him due at the end of April - see here: http://www.camrosestud.org.uk/floridae.htm 

Having seen St Mortiz Junior in the flesh I know what a lovely trainable temperament he has and he is a wonderful mover so it is exciting at the prospect of what we will get next year


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## Chloe-V (15 November 2010)

Another one for Roulette.


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## Faberge (15 November 2010)

What about Sir Frederick? He is black and very very gorgeous!

http://www.youtube.com/user/sammmythegreat#p/u/3/3Mewz8E63oU

And he isn't just a one trick pony! http://www.youtube.com/user/sammmythegreat#p/u/4/smG562t1ihA


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## charliesarmy (17 November 2010)

2Conker said:



			Think you'll find he's dark brown - just like his mum, well, and his sire Suluk).  Not black definitely.
		
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His stud page "Endhouse Stud" are classing him as Dk Bay/Black??


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## JaxMath (17 November 2010)

my boy has been mentioned above...  he is black (carries the red gene) but has so far only produced a chestnut foal out of a chestnut mare

He has been used on a Dales X  mare this year and hers is the first foal due in 2011 (March).

PM me if you need any further info....


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## 2Conker (17 November 2010)

charliesarmy said:



			His stud page "Endhouse Stud" are classing him as Dk Bay/Black??
		
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Ah, well people have to look for themselves I guess. He's part of a family of horses I've been involved with since the late 60's, and know it's history back to 1939. His grandsire Monsieure Edouarde was a very similar colour though even darker but brown (the muzzle is the key I believe), as is his full-brother an eventer called Rubric. In the 80's I bred a Welsh Part-Bred from the family, by Monsieure Edouarde and he looked black, but wasnt.

I would send a mare to him because he's very talented, and the family have great temperaments. Biased maybe!!


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## charliesarmy (17 November 2010)

2Conker said:



			Ah, well people have to look for themselves I guess. He's part of a family of horses I've been involved with since the late 60's, and know it's history back to 1939. His grandsire Monsieure Edouarde was a very similar colour though even darker but brown (the muzzle is the key I believe), as is his full-brother an eventer called Rubric. In the 80's I bred a Welsh Part-Bred from the family, by Monsieure Edouarde and he looked black, but wasnt.

I would send a mare to him because he's very talented, and the family have great temperaments. Biased maybe!!
		
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Bias...I dont think so he is gorgeous ..he was on my list when I viewed stallions at EHS..but was swayed by The Humerist but it wasnt to be with my mare she just did'nt take..so used Sirens Missile..and got myself a lovely boy..  But back to Ganton B...if I was thinking of breeding next year he'd be top of the list..has a very reasonable stud fee too, for a very nice horse, and now have the added bonus that he seems to stamp good temperaments ..do you know anything about filly,colt stats I'd love a filly next


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## 2Conker (18 November 2010)

charliesarmy said:



			Bias...I dont think so he is gorgeous ..he was on my list when I viewed stallions at EHS..but was swayed by The Humerist but it wasnt to be with my mare she just did'nt take..so used Sirens Missile..and got myself a lovely boy..  But back to Ganton B...if I was thinking of breeding next year he'd be top of the list..has a very reasonable stud fee too, for a very nice horse, and now have the added bonus that he seems to stamp good temperaments ..do you know anything about filly,colt stats I'd love a filly next  

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Oh, I'm pleased that you liked him that much, there are two other stallions about from the same family but they're Welsh Part-Bred horses.  Do you know, I've no idea about stats for filly/colts.  I didnt actually know this was done; I always thought that it was the mare (as with humans) that dictated the sex of the offspring.   Anyone else know, I'm a bit behind on this scientifically?
How is your youngster turning out?


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## Clodagh (18 November 2010)

2Conker said:



			I didnt actually know this was done; I always thought that it was the mare (as with humans) that dictated the sex of the offspring.   Anyone else know, I'm a bit behind on this scientifically?
		
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I'm sure with humans, and all mammals, its the male who dictates the sex as the sperm can provide either an x or a y chromosone?


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## Hollycat (18 November 2010)

Male in mammals provides either Y chromosome or X chromosome - which will determine sex of offspring BUT conditions in female reproductive tact (prob mainly re testosterone levels) may determine which type of sperm is more likely to fertilise the egg!


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## 2Conker (18 November 2010)

Hollycat said:



			Male in mammals provides either Y chromosome or X chromosome - which will determine sex of offspring BUT conditions in female reproductive tact (prob mainly re testosterone levels) may determine which type of sperm is more likely to fertilise the egg!
		
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That was my understanding, the sperm are both male and female (have to be) but what happens within the female is what finally decides the outcome.


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