# What could be causing this wrinkled skin on my mare?



## Silverfire (31 March 2015)

Anyone know what could be causing this wrinkled skin on my 5 year old mare? Shes had it at least two years now. Her skin is good otherwise. Her blood Protein levels are normal but she does have low potassium (blood test) for some reason. The wrinkles on her neck and body you can only see when she turns to itch but the ones on her throat latch, elbows and top inside thighs are there when she is stood still. Exercise makes no difference to them, its like her skin is a size too big for her.

Neck and body.






Throat






Neck and front of chest






Legs






Elbow and girth line


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## Red-1 (31 March 2015)

What does your vet say?

I usually associate wrinkly skin with dehydration, which may tie in with low potassium. I would look to rectify her electrolytes as far as possible, rather than just salt, but I would consult the vet.


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## xgemmax (31 March 2015)

I was going to say dehydration too, although it does look like her skin is too big lol! If you pinch some skin when it's not wrinkled does it spring back or stay pinched when you let go??


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## ycbm (31 March 2015)

I have answered you in Vet.  It's a symptom of DSLD/ESPA


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## Silverfire (31 March 2015)

Thanks for your replies.



Red-1 said:



			What does your vet say?
		
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Nothing much thats why I'm asking on here.



Red-1 said:



			I usually associate wrinkly skin with dehydration, which may tie in with low potassium. I would look to rectify her electrolytes as far as possible, rather than just salt, but I would consult the vet.
		
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The skin on her neck is actually quite tight to do the dehydration test but it does go straight back to normal so shes not actually dehydrated. One of the vets suggested giving either an electrolyte supplement or lo salt so have her on NAF electro salts till I can get some lo salt. Just not sure at moment why she has low potassium anyway and whether a supplement is going to make any difference.


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## Nessa4 (31 March 2015)

Would she eat bananas?  They are full of potassium and might be worth a try (wouldn't do any harm, at least).


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## Equi (31 March 2015)

My mares have this. No idea why either. Good post.


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## Equi (1 April 2015)




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## Silverfire (1 April 2015)

Nessa4 said:



			Would she eat bananas?  They are full of potassium and might be worth a try (wouldn't do any harm, at least).
		
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Yes she loves banana's and has been having at least one a day for a year now. She also has a small handful of bran in each feed, bran is also high in Potassium - thats why its odd she has low potassium.


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## Pearlsasinger (1 April 2015)

I am sorry to say that it looks like overweight to me.  It is difficult to say really about OP's horse as the pics are not of the whole horse but I am afraid that the pony's  wrinkles certainly seem to be caused by excess weight.
I speak as someone who bought an overweight horse who had exactly similar wrinkly skin.


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## PollyP99 (1 April 2015)

ycbm said:



			I have answered you in Vet.  It's a symptom of DSLD/ESPA
		
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What is this, is this looking likely?


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## Equi (1 April 2015)

Pearlsasinger said:



			I am sorry to say that it looks like overweight to me.  It is difficult to say really about OP's horse as the pics are not of the whole horse but I am afraid that the pony's  wrinkles certainly seem to be caused by excess weight.
I speak as someone who bought an overweight horse who had exactly similar wrinkly skin.
		
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I would say this too but one of mine ( the bay) is ok weight. Could tone up and loose some but not huge. 

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The pal had less wrinkles and is fatter


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## fawaz (1 April 2015)

equi said:



			I would say this too but one of mine ( the bay) is ok weight. Could tone up and loose some but not huge. 

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The pal had less wrinkles and is fatter 





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The bay is definitely fatter then the pally, just look at the fat pads on her rump! The bays conformation is poor so she will never look traditionally fat with huge shoulders and cresty neck.

The wrinkles on the OPs horse and the ponys above look like weight related wrinkles. Peoples views of ideal condition is pretty distorted these days.


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## charlie76 (1 April 2015)

I was going to say it looks too fat too. Esp in the first pic.


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## Equi (1 April 2015)

fawaz said:



			The bay is definitely fatter then the pally, just look at the fat pads on her rump! The bays conformation is poor so she will never look traditionally fat with huge shoulders and cresty neck.

The wrinkles on the OPs horse and the ponys above look like weight related wrinkles. Peoples views of ideal condition is pretty distorted these days.
		
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The pics don't do justice. I can feel her ribs under there and it's not a conformation shot her conformations actually quite good lol she's lost weight since that pic too but it had the wrinkles in it so I posted that. I can't feel the pals rubs with digging and she's solid crest and arse. 







Think this was same day so she's again thinner. 

She's larger than the pal and a different breed so can't be compared directly in body condition.


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## islandspirit (1 April 2015)

This is my horse, I think to say the wrinkles are because of fat is a rather throw away comment. My horse has actually had skin biopsies due to the wrinkles and a general bloatedness almost looking fat along with a very poor coat. It turns out that he has hair follicle atrophy, his epidermis is only 1 to 2 cells thick and generally the skin has no integrity and is actually not fat. The vets think we are dealing with a paraneoplastic skin response to a tumour somewhere in his body and I would love to hear from anyone who has a horse with similar symptoms to try and help me find other possible causes.


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## Pearlsasinger (1 April 2015)

islandspirit said:













This is my horse, I think to say the wrinkles are because of fat is a rather throw away comment. My horse has actually had skin biopsies due to the wrinkles and a general bloatedness almost looking fat along with a very poor coat. It turns out that he has hair follicle atrophy, his epidermis is only 1 to 2 cells thick and generally the skin has no integrity and is actually not fat. The vets think we are dealing with a paraneoplastic skin response to a tumour somewhere in his body and I would love to hear from anyone who has a horse with similar symptoms to try and help me find other possible causes.
		
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It most certainly was NOT a throwaway comment.  I was commenting on OP's horse and Equi's pony, not yours, islandspirit.  If your vet hs found a problem, I will c ertainly not argue with him/her about a horse I have never met, or even seen a full photo of.  I am afraid that I am still of the opinion that equi's pony is fat.  OP should consult her vet.


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## islandspirit (1 April 2015)

Pearlsasinger said:



			It most certainly was NOT a throwaway comment.  I was commenting on OP's horse and Equi's pony, not yours, islandspirit.  If your vet hs found a problem, I will c ertainly not argue with him/her about a horse I have never met, or even seen a full photo of.  I am afraid that I am still of the opinion that equi's pony is fat.  OP should consult her vet.
		
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But that was the point I was making, my horse looks fat but he isn't. His skin is so puffy that it makes him look fat to anyone that doesn't know his diagnosis which I hope proves not be true. Had I posted a full photo with no diagnosis how many people would have just told me he was fat? The one thing I have found is that not a lot is actually known about horses and a lot is guess work and forums should be about helping each other. The OP has consulted her vet to no avail and she's reaching to a bunch of people she has never met for help. I know that it is so easy for us to jump to conclusions but sometimes maybe we ought to think outside the box and work as a community. Please don't take this as a personal attack because it really isn't meant that way. It's a bit like walking down the street while my 6ft 14 year old son is shouting and screaming with people staring at me and jumping to conclusions about his behaviour and my parenting skills when a smile would help far more and put me at ease as he's autistic and suffering a meltdown. Sometimes a horse is just fat but the owners that know, know and are doing something about it and the owners that don't are in denial and will never listen anyway.


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## Pearlsasinger (1 April 2015)

Actually, islandspirit, your horse doesn't look fat to me.  The wrinkles in your pony's skin are very different from those in OP or equi's photos.  And by the way, as a teacher of children with SEN, I am very familiar with children/teenagers with autism.


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## charlie76 (1 April 2015)

The wrinkle s on the op pic are caused when the pony turns its neck. You can see fat pads in the middle!


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## Equi (1 April 2015)

islandspirit said:



			But that was the point I was making, my horse looks fat but he isn't. His skin is so puffy that it makes him look fat to anyone that doesn't know his diagnosis which I hope proves not be true. Had I posted a full photo with no diagnosis how many people would have just told me he was fat? The one thing I have found is that not a lot is actually known about horses and a lot is guess work and forums should be about helping each other. The OP has consulted her vet to no avail and she's reaching to a bunch of people she has never met for help. I know that it is so easy for us to jump to conclusions but sometimes maybe we ought to think outside the box and work as a community. Please don't take this as a personal attack because it really isn't meant that way. It's a bit like walking down the street while my 6ft 14 year old son is shouting and screaming with people staring at me and jumping to conclusions about his behaviour and my parenting skills when a smile would help far more and put me at ease as he's autistic and suffering a meltdown. Sometimes a horse is just fat but the owners that know, know and are doing something about it and the owners that don't are in denial and will never listen anyway.
		
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Never heard of hair folicle atrophy before. Any more info on it to add to my knowledge bank?

I've had this mare six weeks. Think I can get a break folks?


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## Liane (1 April 2015)

islandspirit that is really interesting, my horse is rather wrinkly, always looks a bit bloated/fat, although fennel seed powder seems to help the bloating. He also has very very sensitive skin, suffers from sweet itch, mud fever, allergic to everything etc. he is 17 and has always been like this though, I just presumed he was very sensitive in the same way some people are.


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## Silverfire (1 April 2015)

equi said:



			I would say this too but one of mine ( the bay) is ok weight. Could tone up and loose some but not huge. 

[
	
	
		
		
	


	









The pal had less wrinkles and is fatter 





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Does she have wrinkles under her throat latch and on her cheeks Equi?


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## Silverfire (1 April 2015)

Liane said:



			islandspirit that is really interesting, my horse is rather wrinkly, always looks a bit bloated/fat, although fennel seed powder seems to help the bloating. He also has very very sensitive skin, suffers from sweet itch, mud fever, allergic to everything etc. he is 17 and has always been like this though, I just presumed he was very sensitive in the same way some people are.
		
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My mare also itchs a lot, has lumps on her right side which have been there a year now - definitely not fat lumps as they are now bald, she has very sensitive skin, very thin coat except over her loins where it is a bit longer and she constantly moults.  My 22 year old thin cushings horse also has this same wrinkled skin - I will post pics of him tomorrow.


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## WelshD (1 April 2015)

the first pic in the OP does look like a fat horse but obviously its hard to tell from a pic

I can understand this being caused by a medical condition but two horses in the same home with the same wrinkles would be too much of a coincidence really and would point more towards the weight (similar husbandry)


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## PollyP99 (1 April 2015)

WelshD said:



			the first pic in the OP does look like a fat horse but obviously its hard to tell from a pic

I can understand this being caused by a medical condition but two horses in the same home with the same wrinkles would be too much of a coincidence really and would point more towards the weight (similar husbandry)
		
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Why would being fat cause wrinkles?  Seen many pics of fat ponies over the years but never noticed wrinkles.  Surely like fat humans you have less wrinkles if your skin is pulled tight over fat, very confused by the (odd) fat comments.


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## WelshD (1 April 2015)

I don't know the ins and outs but it does! I attend shows up and down the country and see this every weekend especially among natives or native types


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## Pearlsasinger (1 April 2015)

PollyP99 said:



			Why would being fat cause wrinkles?  Seen many pics of fat ponies over the years but never noticed wrinkles.  Surely like fat humans you have less wrinkles if your skin is pulled tight over fat, very confused by the (odd) fat comments.
		
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Fat people also have 'folds' of skin, their skin is not stretched tight.

I do wish horse-owners would learn to condition-score their animals.

Equi, if you have only had the bay for six weeks then most of the responsibility for the pony's condition must lie with the previous owner but unless your vet has told you that there is another problem, your pony looks fat.  I would score it at 4 1/2.  I would definitely put this pony on a diet to avoid health problems over the summer.


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## WelshD (1 April 2015)

WelshD said:



			I don't know the ins and outs but it does! I attend shows up and down the country and see this every weekend especially among natives or native types
		
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Example here http://www.horsefeedblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Overweight-Horse-Neck.jpg


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## Gloi (2 April 2015)

That is a fat horse Welsh D. The skin conditions of the ponies shown here are something else. It does look to me like some sort of breakdown in the collagen in the skin. I hope you find out what is causing it. I wonder if their is a genetic cause such as a mild form of Hereditary Equine Regional Dermal Asthenia.


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## ester (2 April 2015)

Frank has wrinkly elbows and am sure his neck does that- but think most do if you bend them that much?, his back legs aren't though. 

He would also be deemed dehydrated most of the time if you skin tested him, but has been the same for the last 10 years.

Now he has had a previous period of being fat so maybe it doesn't spring back so much like people .


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## Equi (2 April 2015)

Silverfire said:



			Does she have wrinkles under her throat latch and on her cheeks Equi?
		
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I can't remember but I'll look today. There are some under her arm pits. Pal mare doesn't have any but on her neck.

She's on a diet as mentioned. My animals live on a diet


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## Silverfire (2 April 2015)

equi said:



			I can't remember but I'll look today. There are some under her arm pits. Pal mare doesn't have any but on her neck.
		
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Could you check their gums too please - press gum and see if white spot goes in 2 secs. My mares gums are slow changing, IrelandSpirits gelding also has slow changing gums.

Anyone reading this could you check your horses today please and see if when you turn their neck slightly does their skin wrinkle down their neck. Some of mine do and some don't. The mother of my two who is fat and old (28) does not have wrinkles down her neck when she turns her head.


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## Apercrumbie (2 April 2015)

Does the vet want to investigate the low potassium any further?  It does sound a little bizarre.  My mini does get wrinkly skin when he is overweight, so it could be a weight issue, but I would want to find out more about the potassium anyway.


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## Equi (2 April 2015)

Silverfire said:



			Could you check their gums too please - press gum and see if white spot goes in 2 secs. My mares gums are slow changing, IrelandSpirits gelding also has slow changing gums.

Anyone reading this could you check you

r horses today please and see if when you turn their neck slightly does their skin wrinkle down their neck. Some of mine do and some don't. The mother of my two who is fat and old (28) does not have wrinkles down her neck when she turns her head.
		
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Will do when I go down again. She does tend to have some wrinkles under the neck.


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## Equi (2 April 2015)

This is how big my pal mate used to be. This was the summer I got her (I had her about 1 month by this stage) the next photo is the following spring. It's hard work and it's still happening but she seems to have plateud.


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## Silverfire (2 April 2015)

Apercrumbie said:



			Does the vet want to investigate the low potassium any further?  It does sound a little bizarre.  My mini does get wrinkly skin when he is overweight, so it could be a weight issue, but I would want to find out more about the potassium anyway.
		
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The vet suggested giving her an electrolyte supplement with Potassium in it then retesting her in a month or two.

According to this link low potassium is actually caused by low sodium http://equine.uckele.com/Resources-Articles/cat/drkellon/post/ElectrolytesDrKellon/ 

I've copied and pasted these paragraphs.

Low Potassium is actually Sodium Deficiency. The body puts a priority on preserving sodium. If levels are low, the kidneys will excrete more potassium instead of sodium. Potassium in the typical equine diet is actually very generous. To correct the problem of low blood potassium, increase sodium to meet needs.

When the body is low on sodium, a hormone called antidiuretic hormone kicks in. This limits the amount of urine/fluid produced by the kidneys. Fluid retention in the tissues outside of the blood stream can result. Try meeting the horse's sodium requirements first. This will usually take care of the problem.


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## Equi (2 April 2015)

Hmm very interesting. My lot have a salt lick and they use it if I leave it in their stable overnight but usually run past it if it's in the field. I'll maybe try getting one each for the stable rather than just the one big tub.


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