# Extra strong bit needed for strong horse out hunting...



## wench (28 January 2011)

I am half tempted to take horse to hunt down the road in a few weeks time. Only problem is that he is going to need some serious metalwork in his mouth (hunted couple of times by a man before I bought him, and I will struggle with him!)

No jumping (or only tiny little logs), so if he does get a bit fussy shouldnt matter to much. Normally ridden in a waterford full cheek, which I am not going to take him in. He needs something that will make him stop!


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## BMA (28 January 2011)

For strng horses I think a bit with two reins is best....then you can hang onto the bottom rein if you have to but give him a break and use the top one when (if) he settles.  

Have you got access to a double bridle?

And what does he do with his chops when he takes a hold?  Is is worth messing about with nosebands before putting something stronger in.


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## wench (28 January 2011)

BMA - I dont have access to double bridle, and the chances are he probably hasnt been ridden in one before.

I ride him in a flash at home, as he does have a tendancy to open his mouth. I could try a grackle, but to be honest, he really does need something different!


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## ngrace (28 January 2011)

I hate harsh bits but sometimes it is just called for! If you have not got a double bridle you could still use two reins on a gag for example, but if you want a harsher mouth piece then dr.bristol could work, I hate to recommend it but like you said you need to make him stop! AIt worked on cross country for my pony when I was tiny and needed serious brakes! As long as you are not harsh and heavy handed something like that should be ok. Depends what you can borrow aswell, unless you are happy to buy a new bit.


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## wench (28 January 2011)

Ngrace - I wish I didnt have to put something nasty in, but if I dont I will end up carted off with, which wont be very good. I would rather go out in something a bit stronger and be able to ride around on the buckle end, rather than hauling on something slightly milder. Hes 14 and built like a brick s**t house. Ideally a rather large man could do with taking him out, that would help to stop him, instead of weedy little me, but no chance of that happening.

I have half been tempted with a Nelson/Cheltenham gag.


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## ngrace (28 January 2011)

No I completely understand, not judging you!  Exactly, better a stronger bit than leaning on his mouth all day.
So you wanted poll pressure rather than a strong mouthpiece? Yeah a Cheltenham gag is popular choice. You say you have ridden him at home, so do you know how he responds to poll pressure?


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## wench (28 January 2011)

I been thinking cheltenham, as they are easy to get hold of for a start! I have ridden him in a dutch gag at home, with one rein on middle ring, didnt pay any attention to that. Hes got round a BE90 event in NS universal with one rein on bottom ring. Just tried him in a Tom Thumb at home with one rein on bottom ring, and we seem ok with this. However I dont think it will do much good out hunting.

Tried a NS waterford out hacking, and he was horrible, although I didnt try to reins with it, just sent it back to the bit bank.

I have an american gag at home, but looking at the length of the shanks on it, I think it may be slightly to much.


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## ngrace (28 January 2011)

Hunting will probably be more exiting for him than eventing, so yeah the cheltenham gag might be worth a try, if you can use it at home before you go, maybe out hacking or something.
Yes american gag might be too much but could you try two reins on that?


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## Lilyhead (28 January 2011)

I have had quite good results with the tom thumb on my tank of a horse although I recently tried a waterford rugby pelham, with a slip head on and double reins, and it is great! My boy tends to grab hold of the bit and run...but I have found a) he can't grab the mouth piece b) I have the curb when needed and c) I have pressure over his poll. Also nice, as when he is being good, I can slacken off the bottom rein and ride him like a normal horse!

Just don't forgot your lip strap if you go for this option...dont't want the curb chain flying off!!


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## Enfys (28 January 2011)

It's a question of trying bits out really, what suits one won't suit another.  I hacked my arab in a hackamore, but at parties of the hunting variety his brain kind of separated from his legs and he was positively dangerous.

After many, many bit changes I was pointed to a Myler LS combination. He didn't love it anymore than any other bit but he did at least respond to it. I used it with double reins. I don't think it is a particularly strong bit (I can show you bits that would stop an elephant) it was certainly effective for my horse. 







Another bit that I rate very highly is the good old Military Reversible, beloved of the Police and Military because of it's versatility.


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## Amymay (28 January 2011)

I been thinking cheltenham
		
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That would have been my suggestion.


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## wench (28 January 2011)

Trig is a real pain to bit. He is nice schooling in bog standard french link LR snaffle. Hes an absolute git out hacking in company when cantering, he has to be at the front.

Out hacking (and assuming same for hunting!) I have tried:

Normal dutch gag
Waterford full cheek snaffle
Myler triple barrel full cheek snaffle with hooks
French link snaffle!!!
Waterford universal

Best of which are the waterford and myler


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## Blackwijet (28 January 2011)

Cartwheel gag with cherry roller bit or twisted link.  Yes its very severe if used incorrectly but if used sympathetically either version is very good at stopping the ones that just won't listen no matter how many times you ask nicely!  but its a good idea to try them out before you go to the "party".


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## tootsietoo (28 January 2011)

I've got an IDxTB who has been pulled around by a man out hunting for 4 years (you can see where his mouth has split in the past, horrible) and I have tried a Cheltenham Gag with success.  It's a Neue Schule, but I don't know how much difference that makes.  I also use it with a flash, as he opens his mouth wide without it.  Two reins.  Seems to be a popular choice for hunters.

I've recently gone back to a Neue Schule french link though as he has been jumping really badly and I don't want to risk socking him in the mouth with a gag.


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## alex2 (28 January 2011)

I use a Kimblewick with port on the mouthpiece and 2 rein positition holes, put rein in bottom one. This makes my hunting safe, I can pull out of a fence if I need to with one of my Shire X TBs. The other ShirexTB I hunt goes well in a pelham with 2 reins. Both these bits have a curb chain. If you do use a curb chain you need to have light hands until you really need to take a pull else the horse gets hurt and then will stop respecting the bit.


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## wench (28 January 2011)

Tootsieto - thats interesting as Trig is TB x ID, although leans a lot more to the ID side! The problem is with Trig is that he hasnt really been hunted by a man (just the twice before I bought him a year ago), and before that he has been owned by women for a good few years (obv not to say that men havent ridden him, but chances are fairly slim!)


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## Drummer (28 January 2011)

I have a tank who needs extra breaks hunting and jumping, he is an ID x Cob He is mainly ridden in waterford mouth pieces and for when breaks are needed I will use a waterford gag with double reins or roundings and he has a grackle or restraining hunter noseband.  It works well for us and we have tried most things.  Good luck hope you find something soon so you can get out and play...and stop!


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## Steeleydan (28 January 2011)

If you want some serious brakes I would go for a Hanoverian Pelham or a Sam Marsh pelham, try to borrow one first and have a bit of a practice in them.
Cheltenham gag with waterford mouth peice would be good but nowhere near as strong as the above, alternativley give him an ACP before you go that will level him, I know its not PC and all the do gooders will be horrified but Ive done it loads of times an know plenty that do including professional people.


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## Twizzel (28 January 2011)

I would try a tom thumb with copper rollers http://www.horsebitbank.com/sweet-iron-tom-thumb-usa-446.phtml


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## tootsietoo (28 January 2011)

Drummer I love your horse!


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## spacefaer (28 January 2011)

We've got a TBxID who leans more towards the TB side in looks, but ID in strength - he hunts in a cherry roller Cheltenham gag with a Kineton noseband - one raises his head, the other lowers it, so we end up with his head in the right place and some respect with the mouthpiece too - he can't lean

He's 17.2 and a very established made hunter

We've also got a 18hh ID who hunted today in a Liverpool driving bit with a Swales mouthpiece (ported) - I rode him off the top rein (a little bit) and the bottom slot for the lower rein (quite a lot!!) and had brakes for the first time - he carries his head very high normally, and I can hold him with his head up, but when he wants to go, he puts his head between his knees, pulls me forward out of the saddle and then shoots off.  (bit like riding my 12.2 lol!)

Don't be scared of putting a strong bit in - far better to have a light contact on a "strong" bit, than be hauled about and a danger to yourself and your horse with a "nice" bit


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## tootsietoo (28 January 2011)

Absolutely.  I think the previous owners of my horse rode him in a snaffle.  And as a result his mouth is all hard and split.  Far better to go a bit stronger and not have to yank all day.


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## wench (30 January 2011)

well update is that I have tried him in a tom thumb bit with rollers and two reins over the weekend, and the two reins seemed to work. Just waiting for my cheltenham gag to come in the post.

I was planning on not feeding any hard feed week before hunt, just hay etc might just help take the edge off him!


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## JenHunt (30 January 2011)

wench said:



			I was planning on not feeding any hard feed week before hunt, just hay etc might just help take the edge off him!
		
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this is a very good plan.... Ron is IDx (approx, as we don't really know), and pulls like a steam train! I hunt him in a double bridle which he seems happy in, but the rest of the time he's in a myler snaffle. BUT... he hunts off speedibeet and alfa oil! we did nearly 30 jumps in just under 3 hours on saturday, and he bounced out his stable this morning! No need for hard feed!


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## wench (31 January 2011)

Jenhunt - I think its a very good idea. I only dare do it for a week, as he dropped of weight in summer, lord knows why so cant afford for him to go thin again, but a week shouldnt be to much of a problem!


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## Old Bat (31 January 2011)

You could also try putting a leather curb on the tom thumb, dutch gag or universal....I had an Idx connie who was a tank but always respected the curb out hunting and it saved me from putting something tough in her mouth!


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## gonehunting (31 January 2011)

I  used  to  have  a little  coloured  cob who  though very  strong  was also  sensitive. He  hunted 10  seasons  in a happy mouth American gag (not the same one as they do wear out!) with  standing  martingale  and  we  were  fine. The  martingale  never affected  his  jumping and  he  was often happy to tackle hedges that  daunted the  proper hunters. Nowadays  elastic standing martingales are available and  probably  would  have  been better. He did  all his  hunting on good hay  and pretend  feeds of chop and  would  go all day. A complete star,


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## Mimi2610 (7 February 2011)

wench said:



			BMA - I dont have access to double bridle, and the chances are he probably hasnt been ridden in one before.

I ride him in a flash at home, as he does have a tendancy to open his mouth. I could try a grackle, but to be honest, he really does need something different!
		
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I put any strong horses going hunting in a Cheltenham gag with a grackle and that works a treat. I bought one of my horses from a male pro and she is a tank that doesn't stop and won't turn right in a bubble, pelham or myler but is a dream in the gag although it isn't as effective with the flash. Good luck!


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## LizzyandToddy (8 February 2011)

Anything with double reins! (so long as your comfortable hunting in them), I find a pelham works with my horse but plenty of others to try, ideally a double bridle though!


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