# Kauto on the ITV News last night.



## Scarlett (20 February 2013)

http://www.itv.com/news/update/2013-02-19/great-steeplechaser-kauto-star-turns-to-dressage/

  

Doesn't he look fantastic? Love it.


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## HumBugsey (20 February 2013)

Looks fab but I really do wish they'd stop talking about him like he's going to Rio or even nationals. He's doing a bit of schooling to keep his mind and body active....... good on him and his connections but he's not going to be setting the dressage world alight!


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## Scarlett (20 February 2013)

I agree, though I think a bit of that is them trying to make it interesting to the public.


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## cptrayes (20 February 2013)

He looks OK, but flat mentally. I agreed wholeheartedly with him leaving Ditcheat but I would much rather have seen him go to a hunting  home than to reschool at low level dressage. I suspect most racing fans will be quite upset about that broadcast. A spirited world class racer appears to have lost all his presence to the submission required to work in a dressage outline (and actually he's overbent). I'm not happy with that, sorry


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## Scarlett (20 February 2013)

Yes, he's over bent, but horses don't become suddenly perfectly schooled overnight and with his history and his length of time being reschooled I think he looks straight and accepting. The rest will follow.

A hunting home would have been great but he is where he is and he's doing what he's doing. According to what I've seen and heard his life is varied - jumping, hacking etc - and the level of care he recieves is second to none. I think he looks relaxed in the video, but my relaxed might be another persons flat.

Regardless of where he is it's great to see something like this make the main news program IMO.


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## HumBugsey (20 February 2013)

TBH I doubt he has the strength to not be overbent yet, it'll come


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## Girlracer (20 February 2013)

I think he looks great, i don't think he's lacking and presence. He looks like a relaxed, happy and content horse who's having a decent retirement being kept sound and supple in the school and doing plenty of hacking.

I think that presence is often confused with a very fit racehorse in an exciting situation. IMO.


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## JackAT (20 February 2013)

I think he's gone to a really good place. I can also confirm that he's not just been doing flatwork, as I have followed Laura Collett on twitter for a while now, and I've seen a photo of him clearing a jump in style! (only one though, can't vouch for how frequent this is) There's loads of good pics of him out hacking around the estate as well, I'd sell a kidney to have that quality of land to ride on.

All in all, I think it's fair to say he's gone to a well run yard with an abundance of facilities. (Also, from other pictures I've seen, has a quirk of rooting out mint treats, wherever they are hidden!)


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## Dobiegirl (20 February 2013)

Laura has only had him for 2 months, for the people saying he is overbent well what do you expect in that time frame and a whole lifetime of another way of going. The interview with CS I found disturbing he seems to think it was either dressage or turned out in the field for the rest of his life. I think his lack of updates on Master Minded is rather telling too.


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## Double_choc_lab (20 February 2013)

I just wish I could see him out with his old stablemate, Denman, charging round the Beaufort country.  Now there's a happy horse.


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## MICHAELA8228 (20 February 2013)

Double_choc_lab said:



			I just wish I could see him out with his old stablemate, Denman, charging round the Beaufort country.  Now there's a happy horse.
		
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Amen to this!!!


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## Miss L Toe (20 February 2013)

cptrayes said:



			He looks OK, but flat mentally. I agreed wholeheartedly with him leaving Ditcheat but I would much rather have seen him go to a hunting  home than to reschool at low level dressage. I suspect most racing fans will be quite upset about that broadcast. A spirited world class racer appears to have lost all his presence to the submission required to work in a dressage outline (and actually he's overbent). I'm not happy with that, sorry 

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Totally agree.
I never did object to him leaving PN, but the way it was done......... not good, and I am coming  round to the view that CS is a bit of a pain.
I hope the horse will go hunting, he will never develop a "dressage topline" it takes years to work up that way, and I would like to see him having fun!
He is a lovely boy, and deserves better.


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## monkeybum13 (20 February 2013)

Scarlett said:



			According to what I've seen and heard his life is varied - jumping, hacking etc - and the level of care he recieves is second to none. I think he looks relaxed in the video, but my relaxed might be another persons flat.
		
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I'm not sure he has been jumping yet and in previous threads lots of people said how he's going to have a much happier life being able to go out in a field etc, do they get winter turnout at Membury? 

(Question isn't directed at the person I quoted, just a general question)


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## Girlracer (20 February 2013)

monkeybum13 said:



			I'm not sure he has been jumping yet and in previous threads lots of people said how he's going to have a much happier life being able to go out in a field etc, do they get winter turnout at Membury? 

(Question isn't directed at the person I quoted, just a general question)
		
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There was a photo posted by Laura on Twitter of him jumping, and have been numerous ones of him hacking and i've seen ones of him turned out in a paddock with a surface - don't know if they have grass turnout currently.


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## MadisonBelle (20 February 2013)

Girlracer said:



			I think he looks great, i don't think he's lacking and presence. He looks like a relaxed, happy and content horse who's having a decent retirement being kept sound and supple in the school and doing plenty of hacking.

I think that presence is often confused with a very fit racehorse in an exciting situation. IMO.
		
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^^^tHIS!

I love him and think he looks great! Brought a very happy tear to my eye........ Thought he looks VERY relaxed and chilled..............


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## Miss L Toe (20 February 2013)

MadisonBelle said:



			^^^tHIS!

I love him and think he looks great! Brought a very happy tear to my eye........ Thought he looks VERY relaxed and chilled..............
		
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Overbent.


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## MadisonBelle (20 February 2013)

Miss L Toe said:



			Overbent.
		
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Whatever


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## Crazy_cat_lady (20 February 2013)

Does anyone have a link to the jumping photo?

Wonder if he gets turned out?


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## cptrayes (20 February 2013)

Girlracer said:



			I think that presence is often confused with a very fit racehorse in an exciting situation. IMO.
		
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I agree with you, but not in my case. I have three horses, one a hunter, one pure dressage never does anything else but hack and school, one a rehabbed lame horse just getting back to competing and they all have a lot more presence than that video when they are working in an arena at home.

Maybe Kauto is just a very quiet horse when not race fit, but since he was renowned for bucking off his exercise jockey whenever he felt like it, to me he just looks totally flat.


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## cptrayes (20 February 2013)

Dobiegirl said:



			Laura has only had him for 2 months, for the people saying he is overbent well what do you expect in that time frame and a whole lifetime of another way of going?
		
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I have retrained a few ex racers, and I expect to see him with his nose in front of the verticle, and nowhere near ready to do a prelim dressage test. Overbending used, in the old days, to be totally frowned on. Now it is just accepted as the quick way to get good dressage scores in the ring.


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## minesadouble (20 February 2013)

Yes at some points in the video he does go behind the vertical, it's not the end of the world. As for him deserving more 'fun' are you saying that people in general are doing ex-racehorses a disservice by using them for dressage or showing or is it just this particular horse that it is a shame for?

As regards presence very few of mine are 'presency' in the school at home but display far more of the elusive quality when out competing, including our ex-racehorses.

I have no strong opinions either way on this matter but it saddens me to see so many people so keen for the Collett/Kauto partnership to fail.


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## cptrayes (20 February 2013)

minesadouble said:



			As for him deserving more 'fun' are you saying that people in general are doing ex-racehorses a disservice by using them for dressage or showing or is it just this particular horse that it is a shame for?
		
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I personally would have preferred to see a 14 year old chaser sent hunting which he would excell at than asked to retrain to do some moderate novice/elementary or even medium level dressage. 





			I have no strong opinions either way on this matter but it saddens me to see so many people so keen for the Collett/Kauto partnership to fail.
		
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I am not one of them. But what does "success" look like for this partnership? 

I thought/hoped that  he was only going to be there to be assessed and then go to someone who can give him individual care. She's a top level eventer, what is his job with her supposed to be if he is going to stay?  He's a high mileage 14 year old horse selectively bred for a totally different job. Is he just going to be the worst eventer, dressage horse and showjumper in the whole yard? I want him to be with someone who thinks he is the bees knees, not a low level eventer/PR tool in a high level yard.


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## MadisonBelle (20 February 2013)

minesadouble said:



			Yes at some points in the video he does go behind the vertical, it's not the end of the world. As for him deserving more 'fun' are you saying that people in general are doing ex-racehorses a disservice by using them for dressage or showing or is it just this particular horse that it is a shame for?

As regards presence very few of mine are 'presency' in the school at home but display far more of the elusive quality when out competing, including our ex-racehorses.

I have no strong opinions either way on this matter but it saddens me to see so many people so keen for the Collett/Kauto partnership to fail.
		
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^^ agree

And not forgetting that Yogi must be doing it wrong too 

Putting aside what we WISH he'd be doing I really do think he looks happy and well..... Just watched the video again and cannot see a flat horse..... His tail is swinging along lovely!

Can't we just be happy that he is fit, sound and doing something different after his most amazing NH career?

Let's put all our own feelings as to what he "should" be doing aside and rejoice in the fact that this amazing horse lived to have his "retirement".


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## cptrayes (20 February 2013)

minesadouble said:



			Yes at some points in the video he does go behind the vertical, it's not the end of the world. .
		
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I've watched it through again, and he is overbent the entire time of the video, except for fleeting moments when he flicks his head up.





			Let's put all our own feelings as to what he "should" be doing aside and rejoice in the fact that this amazing horse lived to have his "retirement".
		
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Why? Horse and Hound Online would soon stop making any money for the Publishing Company, and disappear,  if we stopped discussing things where people have different points of view


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## cptrayes (20 February 2013)

MadisonBelle said:



			And not forgetting that Yogi must be doing it wrong too 

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You don't seriously think Yogi Breisner has the slightest thing to do with this horse, do you  ? Apart from the PR aspect and being Laura's trainer (if he is?).


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## MadisonBelle (20 February 2013)

cptrayes said:



			You don't seriously think Yogi Breisner has the slightest thing to do with this horse, do you  ? Apart from the PR aspect and being Laura's trainer (if he is?).
		
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As a matter of fact I do!  But then my friends will tell you how gullible I am DOH!!!


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## Brightbay (20 February 2013)

I've watched it through again, and he is overbent the entire time of the video, except for fleeting moments when he flicks his head up.
		
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That was my observation too.

I also thought he was landing toe first throughout, both in trot on a soft surface, and then later when walking along the aisle between the stalls.

No doubt his hooves are great, though, since they're lovely and shiny


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## Echo Bravo (20 February 2013)

Lets face it, it's the owner and the dressage rider that is keeping him in the public domain, what happened to his other horse Master Minded???????


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## teapot (20 February 2013)

Jumping photo here: http://twitter.com/CollettEventing/status/302141268392284161/photo/1


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## Goldenstar (20 February 2013)

I really don't get the fuss , he looked fine , a little 'broken' at the top of the neck but nothing drastic personally I thought his jowl looked quite open for his conformation but with his back ground nothing surprising looked relaxed happy settled like a retired horse having an easy time .
Lucky ex racehorse spare your worry for the not so lucky , this horse will never know cold or hunger or want he has an owner paying for him committed to his future so you might have done differently so what this is not a horse that needs us to be concerned for him.
.


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## katherinef (20 February 2013)

Kauto's sparkle has completely gone. What a shame.


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## Apercrumbie (20 February 2013)

He does look a little lack-lustre to me and yes he is overbent, but he looks relaxed and is in good condition.  I wish all our ex-racers could get such wonderful treatment.


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## RachelFerd (20 February 2013)

You can't win with some people. Have him relaxed and calm and apparently he has 'lost his sparkle' .. if he was bucking and squealing his way around the arena you would have a bunch of people on here going 'told you, he can't do dressage, he will never settle down to it'.... this is a very, very silly place sometimes!


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## christine48 (20 February 2013)

He's looking great, good to see him looking so well.


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## windand rain (21 February 2013)

RachelFerd said:



			You can't win with some people. Have him relaxed and calm and apparently he has 'lost his sparkle' .. if he was bucking and squealing his way around the arena you would have a bunch of people on here going 'told you, he can't do dressage, he will never settle down to it'.... this is a very, very silly place sometimes!
		
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totally agree with this at least he int in burgers or a tin owner is deluded if he really thinks retired racehorses end up in a field somewhere and if they did what a horrendous ending for a horse that has been pampered all its days. At least he has a chance for a long and healthy life


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## cptrayes (21 February 2013)

windand rain said:



			owner is deluded if he really thinks retired racehorses end up in a field somewhere
		
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The owner is deluded? Not half as much as you, it seems, if you think that they don't. 

Which Grand National winner was it that was rescued from a field looking like a hat rack? I forget his name, but he was far, far from alone in being a neglected ex racer.

Kauto's owner is disengenuous though, it would have been very unlikely to happen to Kauto Star if he had left him at Ditcheat where they were offering him a home for life and I should think that comment has caused steam to spout from Nicholson's ears, quite rightly too.


 ps Found it

http://www.grandnational.info/grand-national-winner-who-became-a-symbol-of-horse-welfare/


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## Dobiegirl (21 February 2013)

Cptrayes for someone who has had a lot to say on this thread you have made some very basic mistakes , Kauto Star is 13years old not 14yrs and He was trained by Paul NIcholls not Nicholson. You seem to imply you made a better job of your horses than LC and YB which is very arrogant.  Hello Dandy was found in a poor state as was Willie Wumkins ( a prolific winner at Cheltenham but I seem to remember show jumpers ended up the same way.



When I last saw Kauto at Ditcheat he was being brought in from the horse walker and came in to his box like a quiet pony so he is chilled, but get him on the racecourse or the gallops and he lites up. At their open day it took 2 to lead him around as he was so full of himself. I think dressage is chilling him more and obviously he is not having racehorse cubes


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## Lolo (21 February 2013)

cptrayes said:



			I personally would have preferred to see a 14 year old chaser sent hunting which he would excell at than asked to retrain to do some moderate novice/elementary or even medium level dressage.
		
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He could quite possibly be like some of the ex-racers my sister rides, in particular Reg. On the surface, you have a superb hunting horse. He's polite, the perfect hack, never strong or silly no matter how many people are around him and what they're doing. He jumps for fun, and loves going over the big, solid hedges and those types of fences. But he finds hunting pretty much the most stressful thing he could be asked to do, and cannot cope at all. I think some horses just can't mentally be 'there' for hunting and from KS's behavior (which was v. similar to Reg's on race days) I can imagine he is one of those types. 

Either way, I thought he looked happy and like he was learning to use his body in a different way. Bee goes overbent of her own accord as it's where she finds it easier to balance and it's 5 month into her reschooling for her to have the strength needed to carry herself properly... For 2 months in, I thought he looked pretty solid?


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## Marydoll (21 February 2013)

RachelFerd said:



			You can't win with some people. Have him relaxed and calm and apparently he has 'lost his sparkle' .. if he was bucking and squealing his way around the arena you would have a bunch of people on here going 'told you, he can't do dressage, he will never settle down to it'.... this is a very, very silly place sometimes!
		
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Totally agree ^^^^


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## Elf On A Shelf (21 February 2013)

I've not watched the video but can you not be pleased that he is being well looked after and doing something rather than nothing?

The only differenve between KS's retirement and Neptune Collanges's is that KS was sent to a professional whereas NC was kept in the family - because they had the facilities and ability to do that.


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## dominobrown (21 February 2013)

The poor horse is obviously suffering horribly, and is on its last legs and should obviously be put to sleep. Laura Collett is a rubbish rider and doesn't know one end of a horse from another and some random person on the internet knows far more than her. Its not like she's ridden for Britain or anything


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## millitiger (22 February 2013)

I think he looks great, relaxed and swinging along.

I thought Kauto was known to be a little bit fragile; perhaps that's why he isn't in a hunting or team chasing home?

Also, as amazing as he is, he has had some pretty big falls in his career and I'm not sure I'd fancy jumping him at hunting pace over unknown fences and unknown ground conditions (but maybe I'm just not the bravest rider )


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## Daffodil (22 February 2013)

Millitiger:     I do wish this Forum had a "like" button.   Completely agree with you.

Have you seen the lovely picture of him on Laura's Twitter page looking at the H&H article.   It is absolutely delightful.


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## christine48 (22 February 2013)

millitiger said:



			I think he looks great, relaxed and swinging along.

I thought Kauto was known to be a little bit fragile; perhaps that's why he isn't in a hunting or team chasing home?

Also, as amazing as he is, he has had some pretty big falls in his career and I'm not sure I'd fancy jumping him at hunting pace over unknown fences and unknown ground conditions (but maybe I'm just not the bravest rider )
		
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LIKE


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## marmalade76 (22 February 2013)

cptrayes said:



			I personally would have preferred to see a 14 year old chaser sent hunting which he would excell at than asked to retrain to do some moderate novice/elementary or even medium level dressage. 




I am not one of them. But what does "success" look like for this partnership? 

I thought/hoped that  he was only going to be there to be assessed and then go to someone who can give him individual care. She's a top level eventer, what is his job with her supposed to be if he is going to stay?  He's a high mileage 14 year old horse selectively bred for a totally different job. Is he just going to be the worst eventer, dressage horse and showjumper in the whole yard? I want him to be with someone who thinks he is the bees knees, not a low level eventer/PR tool in a high level yard.
		
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Totally agree and exactly what I've said all along, it's an odd choice of career and an odd choice of home and rider, nothing personal against LC, I would have said the same about any event rider.


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## christine48 (22 February 2013)

I think the whole idea of him doing dressage is that the owner didn't want him to jump and risk injury. An event rider would be more used to working with TBs than a dressage rider and probably put less pressure on him. I thought he looked great and seems to be accepting the work well. Yes he may have been over bent, but he has to find his balance in a totally new way of going. In this respect he will be like a young horse and he will try to find ways of avoiding working into a contact etc. Rome wasn't built in a day as they say.
There was a picture of him jumping in the school so it sounds like he is having varied work and turn out every day.


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## lachlanandmarcus (22 February 2013)

millitiger said:



			I think he looks great, relaxed and swinging along.

I thought Kauto was known to be a little bit fragile; perhaps that's why he isn't in a hunting or team chasing home?

Also, as amazing as he is, he has had some pretty big falls in his career and I'm not sure I'd fancy jumping him at hunting pace over unknown fences and unknown ground conditions (but maybe I'm just not the bravest rider )
		
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Like.


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## windand rain (22 February 2013)

The owner is deluded if he thinks many geldings end their days in a field many many more end up very dead in a slaughter house 80% of thoroughbreds end up in the abattoir. Many are race winners
Nice idea to have them retire to a field but as demonstrated for some it would be a fate worse than death.
KS is a lucky boy that his owner does care about him many more are quite simply disposable regardless of how good or bad they are
I am sure he will enjoy a lifetime as a ridden horse and who knows he may even be able to perform dressage well enough to do a few one day events for fun if they want to take the risk


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## Echo Bravo (22 February 2013)

Yes great what ever, the only reason that this horse is kept in the media is because of his owner, other owners of really good racehorses either put them in foal if a mare and if a gelding go hunting/hacking what ever and they don't put their beloved charges on the front page of the H/H and 2 page spread over nothing. I'd rather hear about Moorcroft and Heros as they do more for the ex-racehorse than CS would ever do.


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## cptrayes (23 February 2013)

I'm sure I'm not alone in thinking that it's completely weird what seems to be happening now. 

He's in a top class eventer's yard when it is clear that he can never be a top class eventer, if only because of his age and mileage on the clock. I thought he was there just for assessment but it doesn't seem so. If the plan for him is to do low level dressage, why is he with an eventer and not with one of the many, many people who can succesfully reschool a racehorse to do decent lower level dressage? There are plenty on this forum, at least two qualifying them for the regionals. 

The horse is well and happy and that's all that really matters.

I just don't understand what the owner is playing at, and I begin to see what the racing folk who were so anti him were getting at. At the moment the horse seems to be being used to keep Clive in the media.  And I don't understand either why Laura wants to bung up a place in her yard with a horse she can't train on and sell to finance her business and which will never compete at any decent level at eventing. 

I'd like to think that Clive is doing this to publicise what ex racers can do, for the greater good of ex racers. But if so, Kauto being with an eventing pro is not going to prove to Ms Average looking for a horse that she can manage to retrain a racing TB, and no-one else in the horse world needs the message, do they?

I just don't understand this at all


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## HumBugsey (23 February 2013)

cptrayes said:



			I'd like to think that Clive is doing this to publicise what ex racers can do, for the greater good of ex racers. But if so, Kauto being with an eventing pro is not going to prove to Ms Average looking for a horse that she can manage to retrain a racing TB, and no-one else in the horse world needs the message, do they?

I just don't understand this at all  

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TBF do you want Ms Average to this she can do the *initial* re-school of a ex-racer? I think every one of us knows of a car crash. Yes racehorses make fantastic hacks, family horses and competition horses but that delicate few months post racing I'd rather see them go to a professional/experienced person. Of course there are exceptions but there are novices who see a ex-racer as a cheap option then get in way over their heads and well.... we all know how that ends up and is most of the reason  my ex-racers get such a bad rep.


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## millitiger (23 February 2013)

cptrayes said:



			I'm sure I'm not alone in thinking that it's completely weird what seems to be happening now. 

He's in a top class eventer's yard when it is clear that he can never be a top class eventer, if only because of his age and mileage on the clock. I thought he was there just for assessment but it doesn't seem so. If the plan for him is to do low level dressage, why is he with an eventer and not with one of the many, many people who can succesfully reschool a racehorse to do decent lower level dressage? There are plenty on this forum, at least two qualifying them for the regionals. 

The horse is well and happy and that's all that really matters.

I just don't understand what the owner is playing at, and I begin to see what the racing folk who were so anti him were getting at. At the moment the horse seems to be being used to keep Clive in the media.  And I don't understand either why Laura wants to bung up a place in her yard with a horse she can't train on and sell to finance her business and which will never compete at any decent level at eventing. 

I'd like to think that Clive is doing this to publicise what ex racers can do, for the greater good of ex racers. But if so, Kauto being with an eventing pro is not going to prove to Ms Average looking for a horse that she can manage to retrain a racing TB, and no-one else in the horse world needs the message, do they?

I just don't understand this at all  

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Perhaps he is there because the owner can afford to send him there and know that the horse is being cared for and all of his needs looked after?

If I had infinite wealth, a famous racehorse who was retired and I wanted to send him somewhere to enjoy life away from racing, I think a professional event yard is a pretty good choice.

If money is no object why would you give KS to an amateur who (lets face it) has much more potential to muck the horse up and isn't such a sure bet of a successful re-schooling?

So what if the owner has sent him there to keep in the media spotlight- the horse doesn't know that and quite probably doesn't care 
Personally, I think the media would be interested in KS regardless of where he is kept; as seen by this and other threads, the general public have really invested in this horse and want to know how he is getting on.

Regarding why Laura would want him in the yard- he is a paying livery so is already helping to finance the business.
Maybe she wants some of the spotlight to use as free publicity for her business?
Maybe she doesn't 'need' his box for a more profitable horse and is simply enjoying her time with a racing legend?

If 'Ms Average' knows so little about ex-racers she thinks they _need_ to be at a pro yard and takes the experience of this one horse as gospel, I'd question whether that particular Ms Average is suited to owning an ex-racer anyway.


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## cptrayes (23 February 2013)

All good points


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## justabob (23 February 2013)

cptrayes said:



			All good points 

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I think that millitiger has summed up the KS saga perfectly.


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## christine48 (23 February 2013)

millitiger said:



			Perhaps he is there because the owner can afford to send him there and know that the horse is being cared for and all of his needs looked after?

If I had infinite wealth, a famous racehorse who was retired and I wanted to send him somewhere to enjoy life away from racing, I think a professional event yard is a pretty good choice.

If money is no object why would you give KS to an amateur who (lets face it) has much more potential to muck the horse up and isn't such a sure bet of a successful re-schooling?

So what if the owner has sent him there to keep in the media spotlight- the horse doesn't know that and quite probably doesn't care 
Personally, I think the media would be interested in KS regardless of where he is kept; as seen by this and other threads, the general public have really invested in this horse and want to know how he is getting on.

Regarding why Laura would want him in the yard- he is a paying livery so is already helping to finance the business.
Maybe she wants some of the spotlight to use as free publicity for her business?
Maybe she doesn't 'need' his box for a more profitable horse and is simply enjoying her time with a racing legend?

If 'Ms Average' knows so little about ex-racers she thinks they _need_ to be at a pro yard and takes the experience of this one horse as gospel, I'd question whether that particular Ms Average is suited to owning an ex-racer anyway.
		
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I totally agree, very well said. Attheend of the day he is in very good hands. If he'd sent him to mrs Average, he would have been criticised for that too no doubt.


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## Delicious_D (23 February 2013)

cptrayes said:



			I'm sure I'm not alone in thinking that it's completely weird what seems to be happening now. 

He's in a top class eventer's yard when it is clear that he can never be a top class eventer, if only because of his age and mileage on the clock. I thought he was there just for assessment but it doesn't seem so. If the plan for him is to do low level dressage, why is he with an eventer and not with one of the many, many people who can succesfully reschool a racehorse to do decent lower level dressage? There are plenty on this forum, at least two qualifying them for the regionals. 

The horse is well and happy and that's all that really matters.

I just don't understand what the owner is playing at, and I begin to see what the racing folk who were so anti him were getting at. At the moment the horse seems to be being used to keep Clive in the media.  And I don't understand either why Laura wants to bung up a place in her yard with a horse she can't train on and sell to finance her business and which will never compete at any decent level at eventing. 

I'd like to think that Clive is doing this to publicise what ex racers can do, for the greater good of ex racers. But if so, Kauto being with an eventing pro is not going to prove to Ms Average looking for a horse that she can manage to retrain a racing TB, and no-one else in the horse world needs the message, do they?

I just don't understand this at all  

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His horse, his choice.

As for successfully competing a retrain racehorse to regional dressage...a little difference a horse run 3 times to one with a career like ks.


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## kirstyl (23 February 2013)

I think that for two months training, he looks great and if he is calm and relaxed, he will progress so much quicker. Best of luck to Laura Collett and Kauto Star's owner, you're doing a great job


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## christine48 (23 February 2013)

kirstyl said:



			I think that for two months training, he looks great and if he is calm and relaxed, he will progress so much quicker. Best of luck to Laura Collett and Kauto Star's owner, you're doing a great job 

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Like!!


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## JackAT (24 February 2013)

cptrayes said:



			If the plan for him is to do low level dressage, why is he with an eventer and not with one of the many, many people who can succesfully reschool a racehorse to do decent lower level dressage?
		
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I think everything was pretty much said by millitiger, but also, Laura has a strong dressage element to her eventing. Especially with Rayef, I remember in the 4* dressage test as a warm up to the Olympics, she beat all of the Olympic riders and horses, 3rd after the dressage warm up at Barbury. Also, she's almost always up the rankings after day 1. So I think this may have played a part in the decision. 

There are other factors obviously, I'm just mentioning this.


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## FinalFurlong (24 February 2013)

If i where laura collett id feel privileged to be riding KS. 

As long as the horse gets a varied, fun lifestyle with little pressure I am happy. He should, in my opinion, be jumping, hacking and schooling with turnout. 

He shouldn't be jumped, hacked and turned out as a one off and schooled all the time as that's just putting unnecessary pressure on (he will never have a dressage career).

He should be turned out like an average horse (everyday) and jumping shouldn't be a one off treat neither should hacking.

For me, the most important thing is for KS to have a relaxed, chilled, low pressure retirement which he enjoys and i think with a variety of hacking jumping schooling and turnout that is easy to achieve.


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## BWa (24 February 2013)

I think it is a no brainier as far as Laura is concerned, she has had more publicity in the national press over the last few weeks than any other rider, her sponsors must be pleased! And she probably had an inkling this might happen when she took him on, smart move I say. I follow her on twitter and think she is doing a great job.


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## christine48 (24 February 2013)

FinalFurlong said:



			If i where laura collett id feel privileged to be riding KS. 

As long as the horse gets a varied, fun lifestyle with little pressure I am happy. He should, in my opinion, be jumping, hacking and schooling with turnout. 

He shouldn't be jumped, hacked and turned out as a one off and schooled all the time as that's just putting unnecessary pressure on (he will never have a dressage career).

He should be turned out like an average horse (everyday) and jumping shouldn't be a one off treat neither should hacking.

For me, the most important thing is for KS to have a relaxed, chilled, low pressure retirement which he enjoys and i think with a variety of hacking jumping schooling and turnout that is easy to achieve.
		
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Reading the article in H&H this week, it sounds as if he is having varied work,hacking, jumping and turn out each day.


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## FinalFurlong (24 February 2013)

christine48 said:



			Reading the article in H&H this week, it sounds as if he is having varied work,hacking, jumping and turn out each day.
		
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Haven't read the article, so that is good to hear


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## Caol Ila (24 February 2013)

BWa said:



			I think it is a no brainier as far as Laura is concerned, she has had more publicity in the national press over the last few weeks than any other rider, her sponsors must be pleased! And she probably had an inkling this might happen when she took him on, smart move I say. I follow her on twitter and think she is doing a great job.
		
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Indeed.  It's not rocket science.  She gets a little bit of extra attention and publicity and she gets the big bucks (or pounds, but the alliteration doesn't work) for livery and training from the owner.  Who wouldn't?

Horse looks great.


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## tallyho! (27 February 2013)

A little late to the discussion here... 

I thought he looked alright for two months worth of work... course, it's boring for him. Christ, I think if you knew someone with insomnia, a day out at a low level dressage comp would cure it.

Looking forward to seeing more of him out and about.


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## wellwisher (4 March 2013)

Off subject, but does anyone know what the latet on Master Minded is?  Not heard anything for ages


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## Dobiegirl (5 March 2013)

Rumour is he is turned out in a field as fat as a house and the owner has been nowhere near him.


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## Goldenstar (5 March 2013)

Dobiegirl said:



			Rumour is he is turned out in a field as fat as a house and the owner has been nowhere near him.

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Presumably not fly grazing on waste land and it's not exactly amusing watching a horse graze.


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## FinalFurlong (5 March 2013)

I heard something about master minded in the field too. Ironic as clive S always says, when asked about kauto, 'oh I don't think ex racehorses should just be stuck in a field!' That angers me.


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## KautoStar1 (5 March 2013)

But Master Minded had a very serious tendon injury and after initial rehab, he has been turned away for 12 months.  He is with a lady in Somerset recovering.  My understanding is that once he is ready to return to work, Clive Smith will look at options for him, but it will be very dependent upon what that leg will stand up to.  I don't think he's just been thrown in a field and forgotten about !!

I thought Kauto looked very well at Newbury on Sat and it is nice to see him learning something new and taking it easier but still remaining active.   Apart from the media, no-one connected with the horse has said anything about him working to a high level in dressage, simply that they'd see how he took to his work and take it baby steps at a time.

I don't really know what all the fuss is about.  Hes fit and well, clearly loved and cared for, has super facilities and a top class young rider and a world class trainer to start him off and give him the best chance of making the transition from race horse to riding horse, whether that be dressage, low level jumping, showing or just being a safe and sensible hack.  I'm pleased to see Denman doing so well in the hunting field, but it doesn't mean all ex race horses are suited to that life, physically or mentally and there are plenty of other things they can do and enjoy without HAVING to go hunting.


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## Maisie2 (5 March 2013)

Excellent  post KS1, well said


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## Daffodil (5 March 2013)

EXCELLENT, WELL SAID, KS1


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## DanceswithCows (5 March 2013)

Sorry to be dim not knowing the first damn thing about dressgae but why will he definately not be setting the dressage world alight?  He's a big brown horse and only a few months into training as far as I can gather...surely it'd be possible yet to mould something out of him?  Or can you already see that he just doesn't have the talent?


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## Amymay (15 March 2013)

He looks like a very happy horse.  Lovely.


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## cptrayes (15 March 2013)

DanceswithCows said:



			Sorry to be dim not knowing the first damn thing about dressgae but why will he definately not be setting the dressage world alight?  He's a big brown horse and only a few months into training as far as I can gather...surely it'd be possible yet to mould something out of him?  Or can you already see that he just doesn't have the talent?
		
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Horses bred for the top job are a different shape than those bred for racing. In a race, you want the energy all to go into moving the horse forwards as fast as possible, whereas in a dressage horse you want it to be split between forwards and "up". You need a lot of suspension, "up",  in the paces to win at top level, and racehorses are not bred for it. Dressage foals drop out of their mums bouncing!

Occasionally you will get a top dressage horse who was not bred for the job, but most of them seem to have heavy horse blood in them, like a shire for example. Since continental warmbloods were originally bred from some heavy stock, that's perhaps not very surprising.

It depends on what people mean when they say that he will not set the dressage world alight. Kauto could do well at lower levels but even before he ever raced it would have been obvious that he'll never win internationally at Grand Prix in this day and age of specialist breeding. 


ps someone will now probably name the winning FEI Grand Prix horse that was bred to race


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## tyson (15 March 2013)

I personally would have preferred to see a 14 year old chaser sent hunting which he would excell at than asked to retrain to do some moderate novice/elementary or even medium level dressage.
		
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How exactly do you know he would have excelled at hunting.....?? Plenty of ex-racers do absolutely not excel at hunting. It's like saying he would excel at show-jumping. He might but he also might not! No one seems to object to Neptune Collonges doing dressage....what is the difference? I am struggling to see why people on this forum want Laura to fail so badly. 

Good luck Laura and Kauto....I can't wait to watch his progress.


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## cptrayes (15 March 2013)

tyson said:



			How exactly do you know he would have excelled at hunting.....??
		
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I don't but I think it's a darned sight more likely than him excelling at dressage - though that depends on your definition of excel. 




			I am struggling to see why people on this forum want Laura to fail so badly.
		
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I don't see anyone who wants Laura to fail on this forum, only people who want the horse to have the happiest life that it can. And some of those being people who think an ex chaser of 14 competing Novice dressage living as one of many in an event yard is not the most likely way to achieve it. Personally, I really wish his owner had found him a one-to-one home.


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## KatB (15 March 2013)

From another point of view...

Kauto Star is a VERY well known racehorse, Laura an up and coming event rider. A lot of racing owners/followers will be interested in Kauto Star, and so by following him, maybe their interest will be taken into other equine sports too, maybe creating new owners for the eventing/dressage world....? 

Anyway, as long as the horse is well looked after, who cares, but i do think (and hope!) we see some new "owners" appear in the world of eventing as a result of this publicity...


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## armchair_rider (15 March 2013)

Considering how many falls and near falls he had i'm not sure he'd make a great hunter. I think dressage is a sensible choise, kep him fit and flexible but not too much danger or strain


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## DanceswithCows (15 March 2013)

cptrayes said:



			Horses bred for the top job are a different shape than those bred for racing. In a race, you want the energy all to go into moving the horse forwards as fast as possible, whereas in a dressage horse you want it to be split between forwards and "up". You need a lot of suspension, "up",  in the paces to win at top level, and racehorses are not bred for it. Dressage foals drop out of their mums bouncing!

Occasionally you will get a top dressage horse who was not bred for the job, but most of them seem to have heavy horse blood in them, like a shire for example. Since continental warmbloods were originally bred from some heavy stock, that's perhaps not very surprising.

It depends on what people mean when they say that he will not set the dressage world alight. Kauto could do well at lower levels but even before he ever raced it would have been obvious that he'll never win internationally at Grand Prix in this day and age of specialist breeding. 


ps someone will now probably name the winning FEI Grand Prix horse that was bred to race 

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Interesting, thanks!  You never know, he might still turn out to have a passion for bouncing once he's had a bit of training and worked the right muscles?


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## Goldenstar (15 March 2013)

armchair_rider said:



			Considering how many falls and near falls he had i'm not sure he'd make a great hunter. I think dressage is a sensible choise, kep him fit and flexible but not too much danger or strain
		
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I am with you on this having seen some of his howling errors I am not sure jumping a gate on him with a pack of hounds in front would be much fun.
Not all horses enjoy hunting it just does not suit some.
Flat work a bit of grid work hacking turnout with a great rider on an lovely yard I really don't understand the problem.


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## cptrayes (15 March 2013)

armchair_rider said:



			Considering how many falls and near falls he had i'm not sure he'd make a great hunter. I think dressage is a sensible choise, kep him fit and flexible but not too much danger or strain
		
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I see your point. I was unaware of his fall record, I assumed because he was such a winner he could jump


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## armchair_rider (16 March 2013)

He can jump, he just makes a mess of it sometimes. I will agree though that LC doesn't seem the most obvious person to take him on, at least on a permenant basis. It is a real shame that he couldn't stay at Ditcheat and be reschooled there.


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## KautoStar1 (16 March 2013)

Cptrayes - unbelievable !  You have made countless comments on this & other threads about what YOU think should happen to KS & have readily dismissed the opinions of others yet you clearly show you know nothing about him !!  Priceless. 

And yes he can jump, he wouldn't have won 16 grade 1 races if he couldnt jump its just when he does make an error its usually pretty spectacular.


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## Dobiegirl (16 March 2013)

KautoStar1 said:



			Cptrayes - unbelievable !  You have made countless comments on this & other threads about what YOU think should happen to KS & have readily dismissed the opinions of others yet you clearly show you know nothing about him !!  Priceless. 


Haha, glad its just not me that has noticed that they nothing about this horse but has dismissed others opinions who have been lifelong fans of his. They couldnt even get his age right or who trained him and have similar opinions on racing, again having no knowledge of the subject.
		
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## Elsbells (16 March 2013)

Is it possible that the owner loves the horse and although doesn't want the day to day care of him, or to ride him himself, doesn't want to turn him out to grass and forget him either? 

Perhaps it gives him pleasure to see his champion who owes him nothing, being worked, looking good, feeling good and enjoying a slower than before working life and why not for heavens sake, it is after all his horse?

I wouldnt say that at 13 he's at retirement age is he?

I think he looks great!


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## silu (17 March 2013)

Dobiegirl said:





KautoStar1 said:



			Cptrayes - unbelievable !  You have made countless comments on this & other threads about what YOU think should happen to KS & have readily dismissed the opinions of others yet you clearly show you know nothing about him !!  Priceless. 


Haha, glad its just not me that has noticed that they nothing about this horse but has dismissed others opinions who have been lifelong fans of his. They couldnt even get his age right or who trained him and have similar opinions on racing, again having no knowledge of the subject.
		
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Wait a few weeks and the "experts" will be out in force over the Grand National.
		
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## Caledonia (17 March 2013)

I saw him at Cheltenham in the pre parade and the paddock. He looked flat and unsound, as he appears to have developed a mild stringhalt. 

Disgrace.


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## millitiger (17 March 2013)

Caledonia said:



			I saw him at Cheltenham in the pre parade and the paddock. He looked flat and unsound, as he appears to have developed a mild stringhalt. 

Disgrace. 

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Really?

He didn't look unsound in the clip they showed on Ch4 Racing. 
He also didn't look 'flat'- he was pulling both girls along very merrily, they were jogging to keep up with him!


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## Leaf (17 March 2013)

Caledonia said:



			I saw him at Cheltenham in the pre parade and the paddock. He looked flat and unsound, as he appears to have developed a mild stringhalt. 

Disgrace. 

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He's always had mild stringhalt.


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## Caledonia (17 March 2013)

Yes, really. I was there, I watched him.  

Whilst he lit up slightly in the parade, he looked flat and depressed in the pre-parade box. He most definitely had an action similar to stringhalt (if it's not stringhalt then something is going on) in the paddock. 

I may well be wrong in thinking it a new issue with him, but I have never noticed him do it before. 

It was saddening to see him. Denman looked way happier on the first day.


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## Dobiegirl (17 March 2013)

He has often not looked right behind even when racing, I wonder if it was the fall at Exeter where he injured his hock and was out for virtually the season and arthritis is setting in. Given his age and the amount of racing he has done from an early age I wouldnt be surprised, I just hope dressage dosnt make it worse now he has to learn a new way of going.


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## Caledonia (17 March 2013)

jockmaster said:



			He's always had mild stringhalt.
		
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Ah OK, thanks Jockmaster, I've never noticed before. Maybe it's got more pronounced.


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## BigBuck's (17 March 2013)

I remember Ted Walsh commented more than once on Kauto's action behind -  "he's got an indifferent auld hind leg on him" was how he usually put it.


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## michellybob (17 March 2013)

I was at Cheltenham too on Friday and watched in him in his box very happily muching away watching the goings on, and then got ready and brought out. He looked a picture, don't know what is wrong with everyone trying to pick fault with him!! Laura and team doing a great job and he still struts around knowing everyone admires him  legend!!!


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## Caledonia (18 March 2013)

And on a similar vein why do all the grassroots eventers want to ignore what is so obvious simply because Collet has him?


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## millitiger (18 March 2013)

Caledonia said:



			And on a similar vein why do all the grassroots eventers want to ignore what is so obvious simply because Collet has him? 

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Please, enlighten us, what obvious things are we missing?

I am presuming I am included in your derogatory dig at amateur riders as I don't see the problem with Kauto Star's new home?


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## xiluvhorsesx (18 March 2013)

I think Laura has done a brilliant job with him and she has got him lovely and supple.


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## Echo Bravo (18 March 2013)

Well I preferred Denman out of the 2 and it's nice to see the connections of Denman have given more thought to his retirement, than the owner of Kauto, they don't want to be in the limelight the horse is clearly enjoying his retirement and if he bounces out on the track now and then I shall enjoy watching him.


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## Caledonia (20 March 2013)

millitiger said:



			Please, enlighten us, what obvious things are we missing?

I am presuming I am included in your derogatory dig at amateur riders as I don't see the problem with Kauto Star's new home?
		
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It wasn't a 'derogatory dig'? Grassroots is an accepted terminology, or so I thought? 

Obvious points missed are that the horse is being used as a pawn by CS to stay in the public eye. 

It was clear as day before, but now that it's apparent the horse has always had mild stringhalt, he can never have a career as a dressage horse. So WTF were they doing sending him to Collet, and why were both Breisner and Collet complicit?

As I said previously, comparing his demeanour to Denman's was like chalk and cheese, Denman looked happy and full of life. Kauto didn't - he looked tense and as if he was confused. He was very much ostracised by most of racing, hardly anyone went to the pre-parade box he was in. 

So many people wanted to cheer Kauto on Friday, myself amongst them, but I couldn't bring myself to given his current circumstances. There was mild applause in the paddock for him, but nothing like the cheers given to Denman at the start of the week. People feel that by applauding the horse, they endorse the decision by CS. 

My heart went out to Clifford having to lead round Silviano Conti, with Kauto in the same paddock, and he couldn't even go and see his old mate.


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## Amymay (20 March 2013)

People feel that by applauding the horse, they endorse the decision by CS.
		
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How sad, and very small minded.  The horse deserved the applause, and should have received it.


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## MadisonBelle (20 March 2013)

So many people wanted to cheer Kauto on Friday, myself amongst them, but I couldn't bring myself to given his current circumstances. There was mild applause in the paddock for him, but nothing like the cheers given to Denman at the start of the week. People feel that by applauding the horse, they endorse the decision by CS. [/QUOTE]

Agree with Amymay TOTALLY......... Absolute pathetic reason to not cheer a horse!!!!

My God that has made me so angry......... Jesus Christ.....GET OVER IT


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## Girlracer (20 March 2013)

Totally agree with who ever mentioned Kauto's record of falls and errors, would it really be better for a horse like that to go hunting? Perhaps he could go and not jump, but how is that much different to doing some low level dressage, and a bit of hacking?

I really don't get this whole 'he' lost his sparkle' thing, could it not be that he's not as fit as Denman/on a lower energy feed and is considerably more relaxed? From what i saw of him he looked pretty perky anyway, certainly not lacking in presence IMO. 

I think he looks excellent, is being extremely well cared for and most definitely hasn't the first clue what hunting is so definitely is not wishing he was doing it. Good luck to them i say...


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## Daffodil (20 March 2013)

I beg to differ, Caledonia.

i was in the grandstand and the cheers Kauto got were incredible.  I swear he got more applause than the runners.  I thought he looked absolutely wonderful. Laura has got him looking really fit and well and relaxed, and he paraded and showed off to the crowd.  It was a highlight of the day.

It was a joy to see him.


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## Drakerath (20 March 2013)

Kauto Star looks amazing in that video. Better than ever. Strong in the right places. Gleaming coat. Relaxed and happy temperament. What's not to like? The horse is clearly thriving.
Fair do's to LC. She has clearly worked hard and her efforts have paid dividends already.


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## Leaf (20 March 2013)

Caledonia said:



			My heart went out to Clifford having to lead round Silviano Conti, with Kauto in the same paddock, and he couldn't even go and see his old mate.
		
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I think Clifford had more distressing things to worry about, and as Paul Nichols said recent events put things very much in perspective...


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## Happy Horse (20 March 2013)

I must have watched a different video to some of you!  To me he looked happy and healthy and living in the lap of luxury! No he's not going to Rio but it is a public interest story due to his past success.


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## Caledonia (20 March 2013)

I was in the paddock, not the grandstand, Daffodil? 

And frankly, whatever the rest of you think, I won't applaud a bad decision. If those of you that think the horse would be aware at not being applauded, then surely he must also be aware at being ripped from his life where he was safe and happy and well? 

You can't have it both ways ...... 

Sure Clifford has a huge load to bear, but that must have added to his pressure, not relieved it. Or do you not get how much that horse meant to him?


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## millitiger (20 March 2013)

Caledonia said:



			It wasn't a 'derogatory dig'? Grassroots is an accepted terminology, or so I thought?
		
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The term grassroots is very well known, adding a  smilie makes it seem derogatory to me.



Caledonia said:



			Obvious points missed are that the horse is being used as a pawn by CS to stay in the public eye.
		
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Not missed at all and actually commented on by a few people already in this thread.
I've already said I don't care if he is being used to keep his owner in the limelight; KS is well fed, well exercised and looks happy and gleaming so who gives a fig what the owner perceives he is getting out of it?



Caledonia said:



			It was clear as day before, but now that it's apparent the horse has always had mild stringhalt, he can never have a career as a dressage horse. So WTF were they doing sending him to Collet, and why were both Breisner and Collet complicit?
		
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"Clear as day before" but previously you complained that he had developed stringhalt in his new career and called it a disgrace- slight backtracking there.

Plenty of horses complete in dressage and eventing with stringhalt- I think we all know KS is not going to set the dressage world on fire but, imo, as long as he is happy in his new career it wouldn't bother me if he got 85% or 55%.
He looks very relaxed, content and healthy in the videos, so that is enough for me.

imo, he isn't a horse suited to the hunting field like some other ex-racers- he was known to be fragile while in training and has had some horrendous falls while making bad judgements at fences running tired and at speed.



Caledonia said:



			As I said previously, comparing his demeanour to Denman's was like chalk and cheese, Denman looked happy and full of life. Kauto didn't - he looked tense and as if he was confused. He was very much ostracised by most of racing, hardly anyone went to the pre-parade box he was in.
		
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Clearly you saw a different horse to the one that was shown on telly and the one other people who were at the racecourse saw.
I thought KS looked happy and full of life as well- he looked very full of the joys as he jogged around 




Caledonia said:



			...My heart went out to Clifford having to lead round Silviano Conti, with Kauto in the same paddock, and he couldn't even go and see his old mate.
		
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How come he couldn't go and see him? Had he asked and been refused by the owner/new handlers?

If so, that's very bad form. 
If he just didn't want to because of how the horse left his employer's yard, that's his own choice.

I think we could all debate this until the cows come home and no-one will change their opinion 
I don't give a flying fig about the owner or his apparent plans for KS to make him a celebrity as long as the horse appears happy, relaxed and well looked after- he seems to be all three at the moment so I think all involved are doing a grand job.


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## Louise12 (22 March 2013)

Not strictly Kauto, but if you go to Cheltenham Tuesday, there are some great pictures of various retired horses dressed up for their new jobs:
http://www.racehorsephotos.co.uk/gallery.html


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