# want to return horse to seller....advice pls



## emsie300 (25 June 2011)

Hi

I recently bought a 15hh, 10yr old tobiano gelding cob for £2200, have recieots etc

We have since found out that he needs professional schooling as he is a bucking bronco and that he is laminitis prone, none of these details were in the advert.

i did not get a vet check ( i regret that now) but of course he was not as described and needs some considerable monies spending on him to make him ridable for me a novice rider and also my children who are beginners.
The advert reads:
 RIDE / DRIVE BOB is a lovely genuine kind mannered 9 year old TOBIANO 15 hh (Black & White) very pretty marked L/W Cob. Bob would suit any type of rider - he would be good for hacks or pleasure rides a true all rounder. He is good on hacks, in traffic, nothing fazes him - & excellent in the school - a bit of a plod/lazy. He is ridden in a snaffle bit. Bob is good with the farrier - is shod as present, to be brushed/groomed he loves to be fussed & around the yard with other horses. Only selling due to daughter not enough time to do this lovely chap justice. He has been driven in the past (not by us) and holds himself very well he has a lovely leg action we have not driven him but have long reined him and he didn't put a foot wrong! Tack is available. Good home only please !
I have since contacted the seller who refuses to take him back and also refuses to giver me my money back.
I have also asked her for her farrier details as she stated that he was seen by the farrier so she would be aware that he has history of laminits, she refuses to give me these details.
I also asked for details of where she got him from, she refuses to tell me saying it was a riding school. She states in the advert that he is good in a school but all he does is bucks.
Can i take this further as under the 'sale of goods act' as he is not as described??
Can anyone help me please as i am really struggling.
Thank you
Emma


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## Elsbells (25 June 2011)

I don't wish to appear rude, but this is your first posting and by what you have said you sound at best a novice and at worst an idiot or a troll.

Are you for real???


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## flowerlady (25 June 2011)

Oh dear Emma

You sound a novice yourself when it comes to buying.  Did you not try the horse before you bought him?  Did all the people going to ride him try him?  Did you take someone with you in the know?

Well what does your receipt state?

You could try the citizens advice bureaux to see what they think (if you stand a chance)  Not sure if the small claims court would be better (cost you less) worth a try.

Hope someone can give your a good solicitor or more encouraging advice.


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## flowerlady (25 June 2011)

elsbells said:



			I don't wish to appear rude, but this is your first posting and by what you have said you sound at best a novice and at worst an idiot or a troll.

Are you for real???
		
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The was absolutely no need for this sort of reply.  Have your thought this may be a regular user who doesn't want replies like this so opened another account.  Or just someone who joined for help???

I actually remember someone posting about this horse when they were thinking of going to veiw it.

Why does everyone start shouting troll.

Emma OP take no notice welcome to the forum we are not all like this person


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## flowerlady (25 June 2011)

The_Hooligan said:



			No, this whole 'send it back' culture is disgusting, would not have even been thought of 10 years ago. find some help with the pony, or give it to someone with the knowlegde he needs
		
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Why??  If people didn't tell lies when selling then there wouldn't be the problems.  

Admittedly people should try the horse/pony Shoot me


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## JingleTingle (25 June 2011)

Well your first major mistake was not getting a vetting done - but that is neither here nor there now as you have him and sounds like you might be stuck with him. If he really is prone to laminitis - i,e has had it on previous occasions a good vet would have been able to tell you this might be the case.

If this is just something you are assuming because he has developed it since being with you then it could be the first time he has ever had it, maybe your management of him might have caused it in his new home. Not saying this is the case but is always a possibility when a good doer changes home and inexperienced new owners let them stuff their faces full of rich grass etc. 

Also a complete change of temperament could also have a lot to do with his management. Do you know how he was fed by previous owners? Did you buy his tack with him? Does the saddle you are using fit him? Did you try him when you went to buy? How was he then? How long had they owned him? How long have you had him - is he still settling in?

Sorry haven't a clue about the legal side of things - but wouldn't have thought there is a lot you can do unless you can prove that he was possibly drugged when you tried him, as Im assuming you did try him and he behaved as described in his advert.

Do feel for you but have to say I also feel for the poor horse - at the end of the day, old owner doesnt want him, new owner doesnt want him and unless his problems are sorted out who will want him? Not a great future for him is it?


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## emsie300 (25 June 2011)

Well i am sorry i have upset so many people, yes this is my first horse, you have to start somewhere, how do you gain experience otherwise.
Yes i did ride him, i also took someone else to ride him and also my livery yard owner who has far more experience than i of buying horses.
I was just asking for advice as i have been advised to take the horse back, people have told me they have done so i thought this was the right way.
Once again i am sorry to have upset people and aware that i am merely human and make mistakes, i was not aware that i was the only one in the world to do so.
Several other experienced riders witnessed the bucking and advised me that they would not get on him as he is dangerous. I am not the sort of person who EVER gives up on animals as i own several. Please don't judge me as i all was asking for was advice from other horse people surely that is not a crime?.


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## emsie300 (25 June 2011)

Thank you for this, i did find this post very unhelpful and offensive really. what is it with the troll comment? I was only after some help! Thank you flower lady!


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## Clippy (25 June 2011)

TBH, it sounds a bit grim to me. If he's 9 years old and bucking, i'd be dubious about putting a novice or child on him - ever 

If you bought the horse from a private individual (and it sounds like you did), then your rights are limited and i'm sure others will quote the old saying - Caveat Emptor - let the buyer beware.

The best advice I can give you is to cut your losses, horses aren't worth getting hurt with. Just rely on someone knowledgable to guide you and see if you can find a reputable dealer who will take him in a swap, put him in a sale or advertise him yourself honestly.

Sad though it is, this is what happens to novices who go horse shopping with good intentions and money in their hands. I'm sorry  Hope you get it sorted


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## vroutledge (25 June 2011)

I don't agree with some people's comments, if you are a novice and the previous horse owner has talked the talk etc then your bound to be under the impression this horse is suitable and from the advert the horse sounds like something i can imagine a novice going to see. Did you take an experienced person with you?? I'm sure there is some sort of legal action you can take. i understand some of the above comments about returning horses but if you have been well and truly ripped off then sending it back is a probably best for you!!! to the comment about riding it and trying to work through it......if you were a little more experienced i would agree but if this horse broncs as much as you described then you could get very hurt and i dread to think what it may be like in traffic if the advert was a far from the truth description of the horse. I would however have back and teeth checked just to make sure its not an unfortunate one off and he's got a bad back or something. If given the all clear then try seeking some legal advice.


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## FairyLights (25 June 2011)

1. Most cob types are lamimitis prone,they are good do-ers,so will be.
2. Most black and white cobs will not be "bucking broncos", they may buck,but not "bronco"-like,they arnt built for it. 
OP, you sound very novicey. You should have had the horse vetted,but these things most [robably wouldnt have shown up in a vetting anyway. You should have taken an experienced BHS qualified instructor with you when viewing the animal. 
Get yourself some decent riding lessons and horsemanagement instruction at a BHS establishment and pay smeone to ride the horse for you until you are capable of doing it yourself.


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## Elsbells (25 June 2011)

elsbells said:



			I don't wish to appear rude, but this is your first posting and by what you have said you sound at best a novice and at worst an idiot or a troll.

Are you for real???
		
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Just needed clarification folks! Don't shoot me as I'm only asking up front what a few will question.


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## emsie300 (25 June 2011)

The lady has lied all the time, we asked all these questions before we bought him, she has since back tracked and lied even more as she could not remember her previous lies.
Yes i agree, people should not lie, she knew i would at some point like my children to ride him. thats disgusting, not people like me. Thank you for your help and kind words.


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## Holly Hocks (25 June 2011)

Hello OP.  Ignore the comments from the "experts" (that's how they like to think of themselves). 
If you bought the horse from a private seller, then I think it's a case of "buyer beware", however if the horse was from a trader, then you should be able to return the horse as under Trading Standards legislation, the horse is not as described. 
If you think you want to work with this horse, then maybe get a physio to have a look at it - maybe it has a muscular problem in it's back - hence the bucking, and get teeth checked by vet or equine dental technician and the saddle checked by a good saddle fitter.

I hope you get the matter sorted one way or another.


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## JingleTingle (25 June 2011)

Op I am sorry you are feeling so upset - but sadly this is a common story from new and novice horse owners, and personally I always cringe thinking of the poor horse in the situation. My reply wasn't meant to have a go at you - merely suggesting certain things that might or might not be causing problems for your new horse. 

Does you YO offer anyways of dealing with this if you can't get your money back, can they suggest anyone to help get him through this. I can't believe that someone who came with you and rode the horse  and unassumingly thought it suitable for you are now just throwing their hands in the air and saying send him back hes dangerous?

Have they offered any explanation of why he might be like this now and anything you could try to resolve it? How long have you had him?


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## flowerlady (25 June 2011)

Well esmie300 you have not upset me and as I said alot of people just like to jump on people instead of trying to help especially as this forum has been invaded by a few trolls in the past.  Did you buy the saddle you tried him in?  What was he like when you tried him?  What did you do Hack out, road work and school work?  If he's bucking which sounds like it's that thats worrying you it could be his saddle or bridle fitting.  Can the YO not help or give you some on the spot advice?  What did they think when they came with you.


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## EquestrianFairy (25 June 2011)

FWIW:

I had a similar experience: However mine wasnt a bucking bronco as she was simply to broken to ever be fixed.

By the time i tracked the sellers down they had physically up sticks and moved, i had police try and find them and also went down the trading standards route.

Basically i was told that it wasnt going to happen, firstly they had disappeared and secondly its such a minefield (horse buying) I ended up claiming LOU on my insurance as *counts blessings* she was fully insured and i got my money back that way.
(I still have her  )


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## vroutledge (25 June 2011)

God it took me so long to type my previous comment emsie300 that lots more people had commented (i was half typing half on the phone and also watching TV at the same time) good luck with whatever you decide to do but this horse could seriously hurt you. Can you imagine if you had put one of your children on!! :-/ i am the kind of person who like something quirky but i like honest owners that are selling them for that reason the fact this lady has lied to you i would want to throttle her!


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## flowerlady (25 June 2011)

emsie300 said:



			Thank you for this, i did find this post very unhelpful and offensive really. what is it with the troll comment? I was only after some help! Thank you flower lady!
		
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Emsie300 did you buy the saddle you tried him with?


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## Ella19 (25 June 2011)

I'm afraid that I don't think you would have a leg to stand on. As sad as it is legally i'm sure you have to proove that the horse showed this behaviour before you bought him and that it was not therefore caused by yourself (not saying it is, just what the law seems to demand!). You said that you rode him and your YO also did whilst at the old property, I presume he was good then and not bucking. Has he definately come with the same saddle? Sometimes people will sell the horse with tack but that tack is probably an old saddle they've been trying to get rid of for ages and the saddle you tried him in is still at their yard!  Other option could be that he'd been doped but proving that without a vetting and bloods is impossible i'm afraid.

I'm sorry that this has happened. My advise to you, would be if not already, get him checked by a vet, then a physio or chiropractor (they cannot treat him without vets permission) and then saddler. If all this comes back with nothing wrong then you will have to consider your next options, which will be send him for schooling, sell him or have him put to sleep. I'm sorry to be so blunt and it's an awful situation to be as a novice owner. Lesson learnt, always get a vetting.


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## McNally (25 June 2011)

Wow, I am very surprised at some responses! How unfair.

I *think* i joined this forum when i was having issues with my horse who incidentally was quiet/lazy when i tried him and i had him vetted and i'm not a complete novice either.

OP- I am very sorry you have found yourself in this situation. I also fully agree that the seller is in the wrong, Unless it could be as someone else has suggested a change in feed/ just the move etc.
The old owner sounds very defensive- was she like this when you first contacted her? Unfortunately i think you probably wont get your money back as you have no real rights but its certainly worth contacting someone legal for advice.

Good luck x


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## flowerlady (25 June 2011)

OP emsie300 I have pm'd you


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## Vicki_Krystal (25 June 2011)

Wow some of these replies are just downright rude!

The OP stated she was a novice - all novices need help for gods sake.
This forum USED to be helpful, and an ideal place for novicey people to ask for help.

We all started with a 0 post count at one stage - so does that make every single one of us a 'troll' just for signing up??


OP - without a vetting you cant prove the horse was doped unfortunatly. What you can do however is video the horses behaviour in differing circumstances preferably with a very experienced rider on top - that way, should the horse be naughtly it cant be blamed on you being a novice.

At the end of the day a vetting would have picked up the lami - so nothing you can do about that but it would not have proved anything about the bucking apart from maybe pointing out tenderness in the horses back.

You can take it to court if the prevous owner wont help as you HAVE been sold a horse that is not fit for the purpose you purchased it for.

A friend recently sent back a horse she bought as it didnt hack - she did have one hell of a battle to get her money back though, so be prepared for it to be a hard slog.

Good luck


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## moana (25 June 2011)

There are potentially many reasons why your new horse may be bucking now, but did not before, and may never have before. It might have, but unfortunately you cannot prove either way. Is the saddle the one that you tried him in, or is it a different supplied or one you have bought yourself. If it is a new saddle, even if fitted by a qualified saddle fitter, it may simply not fit, and a badly fittting saddle is notorious for making horses buck.

As for the laminitis, has your vet or farrier said that there are signs of previous attacks?

I am sorry you are in this situation, but with a change of home, possibly a change of saddle, more novice riders etc, your horse may well have been 'as described' and the onus is on you to prove he was not. Good luck sorting it.


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## s4sugar (25 June 2011)

Please answer the questions about tack OP as I found the advert and it looks like the saddle in the photo is not a good fit. 

A slight change in weight can make a "not too good a fit" saddle into a painful one.
What do you mean by "bucking bronco"?
I have ridden horses who buck when fresh or when fed oats or barley and also ones who buck to get the rider off -very different.
What bit are you using and what was he tried in?

What history is in the passport? You should be able to see which vets have vaccinated and how long the sellers owned him.


Prone to laminitis is not a reason to return even if you purchased from a dealer and if you tried him you are stuck with him. Work with what you have and get his back & bit/teeth checked.


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## MissSBird (25 June 2011)

Sorry to read this - I was also in the same situation with my first horse, the novice owner duped by liars. 

As others have suggested, the sad fact is that trading standards will offer you no help. Like buying a second hand car, you have little legal standing here. You can put pressure on the owner and see if she will take the horse back, but from what you have described of her attitude I doubt this will happen.

You need to cut your losses, either by working to solve the horse's problems or contacting a reputable dealer to see if you can trade for a more suitable horse, or if they will take him. I would expect this would be at a loss.

Laminitic-prone ponies can easily be kept healthy with correct management. This isn't a major problem; it maybe just takes a re-think of your current set up. Myself and many others on this forum will be happy to give you advice regarding this.

His bucking issue is more difficult to solve. The most likely reason for it is pain. Have your saddle checked by a professional saddler, regardless of whether it is the one you tried him in or not. If you already have done this, it may be worth getting someone out for a second opinion.

If it is not the saddle, get a vet out to look at his back and recommend you to a good physiotherapist/chiropracter. This should hopefully be able to locate the specific issue. Also have the vet check his teeth for any edges that could be causing pain.

If every single test has been done, and no pain can be found, then it is a schooling issue. Considering your experiance, I would then look at sending him to a professional for reschooling. Look for someone who will do the first steps for you, and then will  be willing for you to come to the yard and work with them in the process. 

If you do decide to take these options, a simple post on here with your area will field some good contacts for chiros, vets and riders to school. 

Whatever you decide, good luck. If it is any comfort for you, that first horse i was conned into buying gave me six wonderful years in the end. It was a very steep learning curve, but I came out a much better horse person in the end.

Good luck!!


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## thatsmygirl (25 June 2011)

Shame the vetting wasn't done and I would have thought if you had a experienced friend and yard owner they would off suggested this, did they?
How long have you owned him? 
Again the question on tack? 
I also really hate the " return " bit that many people seem to try and do. 
I sold a horse end off feb, lady had ridden him for 3 months before buying off me and now 4 months on the horse is being a nightmare but I have offered to buy the horse back because I know what a lovely horse it is and is being ruined by again a novice owner. 
I know novice owners have to start somewhere but the point I'm trying to make is, are you sure this is the horses fault? Teeth, back, tack etc been checked? Have he settled in? Or are you shouting loudly without looking into any problems first and once again as iv seen many times " ponies fault"


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## Roasted Chestnuts (25 June 2011)

If you trieed the horse and had other poeple trying him then why wasnt he bucking during this??

People like to say the horse was doped when the attitude changed or summat goes wrong aferwards.

No offence OP but if your YO/expereienced friend found nothing to put you of the horse then maybe you should look at the fact that it could be how he is being kept. How do you know the horse is prone to Lami?? Who told you this??? Sorry if I have missed these answers above.

We all start out somewhere but I am afraid that you may just have to get the schooling or issues sorted or sell on but TBF you wont get half of what you paid (if anything) if he is as bad as your making him out to be.


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## Penny Less (25 June 2011)

OP I have been in the same position as you, although I am not a novice rider, but answered a similar ad to the one you did. It is very easy for people to mislead you, although I personally went to look at every horse with my cynical head on. I would go down the tack etc route everyone has suggested, also wonder what his workload was and what it is now? Unfortunately you have no come back, it always amazes me that the horseworld seems to be the only one where you can be ripped off without being able to do much about it.  Perhaps you could have a word with a behavourist to see if they can 
come upo with something.  Hope you get something sorted.


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## DragonSlayer (25 June 2011)

elsbells said:



			I don't wish to appear rude, but this is your first posting and by what you have said you sound at best a novice and at worst an idiot or a troll.

Are you for real???
		
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Are YOU for real?

Just because someone might have been sold a dud, and because us 'experts' would perhaps not have fallen for it.....you instantly accuse a new poster to be a Troll?

Lovely welcome, I must say.

Get your head out of your ass, and cut the OP a bit of slack...until it is PROVED this is a troll, lay off.

OP, I would get the help of an instructor or someone as soon as you can, unfortunately, I can't see you having much luck in sending the horse back unless you have a bottomless pit of money to pay the legal costs, but you might be able to sell the horse on once some problems are sorted out to a more experienced person.

Good luck, and don't be put off by the negatives, we ARE meant to be here to help each other, but I am afraid far too many are 'Holier Than Thou' and THINK they know better.

Let us know how you get on.


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## jaspejoo (25 June 2011)

you know i think its just nasty how lots of people on this thread are talking to the OP! she is asking for help and all you can say is how she "should have taken a BHS instuctor" etc etc.  At the end of the day, OP is right, novice owners have to start somewhere! And just to add, i've seen cobs bronc with the best of them.

I think the best port of call is get all of his tack checked by a proper master saddler, get a physio out who is chartered with ACPAT then if all else fails, maybe you should think about selling on.  I don't blame you for not wanting to get on it


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## Crazydancer (25 June 2011)

OP, perhaps if you let us know whereabouts you are, there may be some people on here in that area who can recommend a good saddle fitter/back person/trainer etc for you to check with?


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## springer1021 (25 June 2011)

elsbells said:



			I don't wish to appear rude, but this is your first posting and by what you have said you sound at best a novice and at worst an idiot or a troll.

Are you for real???
		
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There is no need to be so rude, I'm sure there was a time when you weren't so knowledgeable as you obviously are now and no doubt you made plenty of mistakes.  The OP was asking for advice, if you can't reply in a polite manner why reply at all??

OP

If you bought the horse from a dealer you are protected by the Sale of Goods Act, however if you bought it privately there isn't much you can do.

As others have said get back, teeth etc checked and also have the saddle re checked by a qualified saddle fitter - Andy Wheals is very good and travels around the country.

If everything is okay with all of the above,ask someone more experienced than yourself if they will try and ride and see if they have more success.

Either way this pony doesn't sound the right one for you and your daughters.


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## Puppy (25 June 2011)

OP, what tack are you riding him in? Is it the same stuff that you tried him in?


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## Chloe..x (25 June 2011)

Don't think you've got a leg to stand on to be fair, it happened to someone on a yard I was working on a long time ago. 
Friend sold on a "project" cob , new owner did hardly any work with it, ended up fat and laminitic. Friend got a phone call demanding a return but without a vetting, they will just say it was your fault for not getting it vetted.


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## Foxhunter49 (25 June 2011)

The problem lies in proving that they lied to you and others in the advert.
Horses are quite capable of sussing out who and who they can and cannot play up with before you even get on them. He might never have done it with them but after a few days realised that he could get out of work by 'sorting you out'
He could well have tried a few minor things and got away with them so these things escalated into more major things. 
Afraid that you return him on the laminitis issue. That was up to you to be able to see from his feet that he has had previous issues with it. A vet would have known.

What are you feeding him? A dietary change can make a big difference and some horses on hard feed blow their brains.
You can try and get him returned or get an experienced person to help you with him. As was said a cob as described can rarely buck enough to take the skin off a rice pudding  and it could just be a matter of you learning how to be his master.

Sorry but I somehow think you have learned a lesson the hard way. If you go horse hunting 1) take an experienced person who knows the standard you ride at. 
2. If you can ride the horse more than once.
3. Always have a horse vetted.
As an addition I would also state that you should never be hustled into making up your mind. Sellers will often say that they have someone else interested to make you hurry and buy. In that case I will tell them to let the other person try him and if he is not sold to get back to me. 99% of the time they get back so, the ball is in my court.


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## Bubley898 (25 June 2011)

The_Hooligan said:



			No, this whole 'send it back' culture is disgusting, would not have even been thought of 10 years ago. find some help with the pony, or give it to someone with the knowlegde he needs
		
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If the seller was honest in the first place it would have ended up in a suitable home.


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## Cuffey (25 June 2011)

The advert (easy to find from OPs words) looks like seller probably not a dealer

Cob looks hollow backed and croup high from pictures so saddle may have 4 pressure points.
On the advert there looks to be a thick numnah underneath.
The stirrup leather does not hang parallel to the stitching on the saddle which is pommel high--suggesting the saddle is too narrow fit and could be putting pressure on/pinching the shoulders at least with thick numnah under

OP needs help
Most of us understand how much pain can be caused by ill fitting saddle and the horses reaction to that pain.
Saddle needs to be checked for broken tree and probably reflocked to cater for hollow back if saddle fitter considers it wide enough fit

And as above, teeth, back checked  etc


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## JingleTingle (25 June 2011)

I think it is pretty much agreed that the Op will not get her money back sadly. But I do think it is well worth giving this horse a chance if we make the assumption it was neither doped nor in a different saddle.

3 years ago I sold a Polish warmblood X to a novice owner who was a fairly good rider and wanted something sane and sensible to do riding club and low level show jumping. This mare was to be her first horse. She came and tried her, horse didnt put a foot wrong (as was normal for her) and the woman was delighted to buy her after it passed a 5 stage vetting.

Forward on 3 weeks I started getting panic stricken emails to say the mare was a total nutcase, her farrier had to stop trying to shoe her and declared the horse to dangerous even to handle! Woman was too scared to even try to get on her. After several emails and phone calls trying to find out what the hell had happened to my mare to cause this total personality change, purely by chance, the new owner mentioned that the made to measure saddle she had also bought with the mare was slipping all the time. 

Alarm bells started to ring - this saddle I knew was a perfect fit - turned out the poor mare had been turned out onto super rich grazing, being fed 2 hard feeds a day (I had said she was a good doer and wouldn't need feed if her grass was good) and was now a very rotund, fizzed up to the eyeballs raving lunatic!

Told her to get her straight off the grazing, cut out all hard feed and start lunging her to get some of the fizz out of her. Within 2 weeks her farrier couldn't believe it was the same horse as she stood quietly to be shod.

Forward on 3 years, the woman absolutely adores her, now does very well at both riding club and show jumping, thinks she is the safest horse on God's earth and often emails me to thank me for selling her the perfect horse.

The point of that rather long tail is that IF the OP is making similar mistakes (and is not her fault as doesn't sound like she has anyone sensible and with enough knowledge to help her) - if things can be sorted, and are sorted, this little horse may well still turn out to be the lovely safe family horse she hoped she had bought?


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## DragonSlayer (25 June 2011)

pastie2 said:



			Poor you OP, you certainly need help. All is not lost looking at some of the replies you have had. Dont give up on this horse, get the saddle sorted, lami is containable and get a vet to check him out. He is yours now, for better or worse and you are in a position to get him right. Look on the positive side, it will be a learning curve. Nothing that is worthwhile in life comes easy! Make the best of what you have got.
		
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Lovely post.


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## Achinghips (25 June 2011)

elsbells said:



			I don't wish to appear rude, but this is your first posting and by what you have said you sound at best a novice and at worst an idiot or a troll.

Are you for real???
		
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what a kind supportive post


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## YorksG (25 June 2011)

I would look very very carefully at what he is being fed. Most novice owners believe the feed marketeers propaganda, that all horses need this or that brand of feed, even producing 'low calorie' feeds! 
Get him back to basic grass/hay, have all the checks done, and then maybe get an instructor in to give you a hand
Good luck


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## brighteyes (25 June 2011)

If it was an overnight change from angel to hell on four feet then I'd suspect dope.  Patches' friend certainly didn't come off best when the person she had sold her (perfectly lovely) pony to took her to court


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## Achinghips (25 June 2011)

Where did you go to get him? I remember seeing the advert and thinking he sounded lovely - bloody liar advertisers should be shot!


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## LaurenM (25 June 2011)

I thought it was only dealers that could be in breach of goods act.

Think you'd have to prove that she knew that he bucks etc. Personally I believe horses act different with different riders if allowed to do so. Get a good instructor to help you out. 

When I bought my gelding he was made out to be ideal as a first horse. It would take me two hours every night for 3 months to catch him. Stupid me had always arrived at previous owner's when he was in the stable so never seen him being caught. He does have other faults but won't go into them lol!

It will be a massive learning curve and he may come right. Perhaps give him a few months whilst having lessons. I do understand the feeling of ending up with something that you weren't expecting. Hope it works out for you.


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## Syrah (25 June 2011)

Jeez, half way through this and I have to say some of you need to remember YOU were once a novice and a new owner.

I think a few of you need to get your heads out of your asses not just the first poster.

I hope the OP hasn't been put off from posting and will get the advice and help she needs from those willing to give it rather than those who want to appear self important and knowledgeable.


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## Tnavas (25 June 2011)

elsbells said:



			Just needed clarification folks! Don't shoot me as I'm only asking up front what a few will question.
		
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I personally thought your response really rude and arrogant - so what if it is a troll or a genuine person!

They asked for help - there is no need to be rude to anyone on the site especially when they are new.

If you have nothing plesent or helpful to say then don't press Submit.


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## Tnavas (25 June 2011)

Emsie300 - have you tried 'Googling' the phone number. If this person buys and sells reasonably regularly her number will pop up with several different adverts.

If this happens then you may have a person who is a 'Dealer' and then you are covered by the Consumers Act.


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## mulledwhine (25 June 2011)

Ok I holdy hands up I am a troll, as I once was a first time poster who had a problem!!!!!!!!


OP it is such a shame what has happened to you, please don't give up on HHo on the whole we are a friendly bunch.

As for your new horse that is horrid, is the sale of goods different to trades description?


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## beeswax (25 June 2011)

sending the horse back is just not going to happen, accept it, it will takes loads of time and money that could be spent on dealing with this horse that you liked and bought.  so here goes, start at the very beginning - get back man out to check fitting of saddle and horses back, dentist out to check and do teeth, check how much you are feeding said horse, hopefully no cereal or oats in fact should only be on already grazed grass and a handful of hay if in at night that will look after the lami.  when you have done all the above, start lunging and longreining this will be fun for you as you are a novice and really should be learning everything there is to know about owning and riding horses/ponies and you will then pass that on to your children, so if it means going for a few lessons or getting someone out to teach you how to lunge and longrein, then put the saddle back on and lunge/longrein, then get on and just take it slowly, cobs do not bronc they may put in a lil buck but give yourself a neck strap and for the good lords sake dont let any horse feel the nervousness in you otherwise you will be giving them the wrong signals and having the situation you have at present, give both of yourselves a chance. you will smile, trust me


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## Miss L Toe (25 June 2011)

It matters little whether this is a dealer or not, the animal is not as descried, could have been doped or just schooled a lot to tire it out, but it is not a plod suited to beginners.
OP did take along others, what are they saying now?
Don't feed it pony cubes  at all, and go to CAB and/or local authority Consumer Services to find out where you are. The BHS society Gold Memberhip also gives legal help.
Do you have the address and where was it advertised.


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## lottie940 (25 June 2011)

I've read a lot of the replies on here and quite frankly I am shocked and disgusted with some of the nasty, insulting, hurtful and uncaring things that have been said about the author and the horse.

Firstly I go by the saying " there's no such thing as a bad horse, it's the owners" or in this case PREVIOUS owners.

I, like the author, was an inexperienced horsey person shopping with money in my hand and I nearly got rolled twice for money for bad horses. Thankfully I had them both vetted and it was the vets advice that stopped me buying them. In this case no vetting etc was done and the author bought the horse in good faith.

I have just gone down a similar route with my yearling. Unmanageable, crashing through fences, walking into me and generally being a right royal pain in the ass. I toyed with getting rid and even giving him to Bransby to re home but in the end I didn't. I persevered, I got in touch with a Recommended Associate from Intelligent horsemanship Group ( Monty Roberts) and got them to come out and take me back to basics with handling and groundwork and by the sounds of this horse that is what you will have to do too. Get the groundwork right before attempting to get back on him. Its not as expensive as you might think. the other route is to have teeth,back, tack etc checked as this may be a reason for the bucking.

Trust and respect is a two way street as far as horses and handlers go and all that generally starts with basic ground work and manners. I would appeal to the author of the post to consider this route before thinking of moving the horse on. There's no telling where he will end up and I think that's a lot for an animal lover to have on their conscience.

I never saw myself with a youngster, its been a hugely stressful learning curve but as I have said I have learnt an awful lot and I think it has made me a more rounded horsey person because of it but I by no means know it all and others on this site should remember the same.

I wouldn't post on here again as it seems a lot of people on here are not very understanding and prefer to mock people asking for help rather than share their knowledge. Those of you who have been rude or disrespectful should be ashamed of yourselves. It takes a bigger person to ask for help and guidance rather than just blundering on blindly and making the problem worse. 

If the author wants to send me a personal message I will be happy to help re the route of getting help for the IH group.


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## mulledwhine (25 June 2011)

Well put lottie


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## henryhorn (25 June 2011)

I would ask your local BHSI (ring BHS to find) to come and assess him, and if necessary write a report.
That way you will get an idea if it's feed/grass/saddle/sheer taking the p ** that is causing his problems. It may be he is taking advantage of novice riders I'm afraid.
Write to the seller by reg. letter saying you have had this done and the result was... If there is enough evidence also say you will be contacting Trading Standards as he is not fit for the purpose sold.  A bit of bluff often goes a long way.
Make an effort to discover more about him by asking on here if anyone would pm you if they know the yard where he came from, with any luck you may turn up their farrier or evidence of the owner having had him treated. 
I am sorry this has happened, but don't give up just yet, often rogue sellers cough up when challenged hard enough..


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## Miss L Toe (25 June 2011)

The first thing to do is to write a diary of events while fresh in your memory,dates and anything that the vendor said to you which is not truthful, or which persuaded you to buy it.

You made it obvious that you were all novices, and that you wanted a quiet family horse., this is your big card, the fact that the seller is experienced and you are not.

You need to write down ALL expenses and ongoing costs.
You ask Consumer Services, most LA have an office, ask for an appointment with the manager, as you want to get this sorted asap.
I think a letter should be sent, I assume you have the address, as you have a receipt, and you went to view the horse, if not that will require further investigations. 
The  letter should make it clear that you purchased in good faith, a family plod
mention the particular phrases and your complaint.
You are incurring expenses of so much per week but if she collect the horse within the next seven days, and returns the money [in cash] you will waive the weekly expense.
There are more safeguards in the Trades Description act for purchasers from trade, but you have the Trading Standards lot to help you out.
Look out for another ad appearing in the same place , you can use a new phone to call up and a friend can ask Qs.
Good luck with that, and apologies on behalf of all these idiots who jumped on you because they are so darn clever, they have never done anything which in hindsight is a bit naive.


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## luckyoldme (25 June 2011)

elsbells said:



			I don't wish to appear rude, but this is your first posting and by what you have said you sound at best a novice and at worst an idiot or a troll.

Are you for real???
		
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how can you possibly expect to say such horrible things and not appear to be rude? 
Its so nice to see that so many folk have spoke out to support the op .
Its a horrible place to be but i was in exactly the same position a couple of years back. I now have a smashing horse who does exactly what i bought him for.... ive loved the experience of turning him round. My approach once i got over the initial shock was to gain his trust on the ground and slowly move on step by step .... gaining each others trust along the way. Good Luck!


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## MiJodsR2BlinkinTite (25 June 2011)

OP is obviously a "novice", and there's nothing wrong with that, we've all been there, and our first horse has turned out to be not quite as expected!!! 

However this is obviously frigtening and distressing, to realise that the horse you saw and liked has turned into a monster!

This isn't unusual OP!! If he's a cob, then cobs are usually very adept and clever at working out the experience (or lack of it) of the rider - mine does it and very quickly gets the measure of someone he thinks he can get away with things with! Bear also in mind that he's still probably settling in, getting used to a new routine etc. 

Personally I'd get a physio/saddle fitter out PDQ as bucking is very often a sign of pain. That would be essential IMO. Then ditto teeth as again this can have a huge impact. 

If you've bought from a private seller, I don't think you will be able to return him; and that's just being realistic. Unfortunately the law does not do enough IMO for situations like this.

There are several options: you could put him out on loan with someone who's got the experience to deal with him; OR you could get someone to ride him/school him for you; OR you could send him away for schooling (but IMO the horse and rider have to work TOGETHER and he'd probably revert to the original behaviour with you); OR you could send him away to equestrian college on working livery for an academic year? 

OR ..... you could decide OK so this is "my" horse now, and by golly I'm gonna sort the blighter! OK so this might seem a formidable task, but if you had the right help you might be in a better position to make an informed decision.

Personally, what I think you need to do is get some expert help in to assess you, the horse and the way both of you inter-react together, before anything else. The laminitis is not what you wanted, obviously, but again, you need to talk to your vet plus other people (lots of help available on this forum!) about how you can best manage it - I've had a lammi in the past and it IS manageable.

I'd recommend an Intelligent Horsemanship practitioner - their website should give you someone in your area. I really feel that you need someone else who's experienced in "quirky" horses to give you some unbiased advice and help you through this. 

With the whole selling/moving home process, even the most ploddy cob types can become unsettled and develop quirky habits with a new rider, so what you're experiencing isn't, I would suggest, unusual.

I believe there's a website called "Project Horses" - this is if you do decide to sell him on. OR you could use an agent, which is what I did once with a horse that I'd bought who was a lovely boy but just too sharp for me - an agent isn't really the same as a dealer and you'd need to ask around for a recommendation, but well worth considering IME as if he doesn't suit you, it might be there's someone else he would suit perfectly. 

He does sound a typical cob I have to say! IF you can stick with it, and persevere (with help) - you'll get incredibly fond on him and I know from my own experience with my boy that you'll be so glad you do .... 

Good luck!


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## Ottinmeg (25 June 2011)

Vicki_Krystal said:



			Wow some of these replies are just downright rude!

The OP stated she was a novice - all novices need help for gods sake.
This forum USED to be helpful, and an ideal place for novicey people to ask for help.

We all started with a 0 post count at one stage - so does that make every single one of us a 'troll' just for signing up??
		
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Some of the posters on here need to get back under their own bridges

 i do find it slightly amusing that the troll screamers appear to be quite new to the forum themselves with joining dates of 2010 / 11 . Dragon slayer said exactly what i was going to say to the first reply so saved me the bother ...thanks DS 

Many people join this forum when they have a problem, I used to read it and only signed up after  buying a new horse which we had some issue's with etc. 

OP, lots of good advice given , give the boy the benefit of the doubt for now and get everything checked as suggested. good luck and let us know how you get on.


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## Amaranta (25 June 2011)

MrsD123 said:



			The first thing to do is to write a diary of events while fresh in your memory,dates and anything that the vendor said to you which is not truthful, or which persuaded you to buy it.

You made it obvious that you were all novices, and that you wanted a quiet family horse., this is your big card, the fact that the seller is experienced and you are not.

You need to write down ALL expenses and ongoing costs.
You ask Consumer Services, most LA have an office, ask for an appointment with the manager, as you want to get this sorted asap.
I think a letter should be sent, I assume you have the address, as you have a receipt, and you went to view the horse, if not that will require further investigations. 
The  letter should make it clear that you purchased in good faith, a family plod
mention the particular phrases and your complaint.
You are incurring expenses of so much per week but if she collect the horse within the next seven days, and returns the money [in cash] you will waive the weekly expense.
There are more safeguards in the Trades Description act for purchasers from trade, but you have the Trading Standards lot to help you out.
Look out for another ad appearing in the same place , you can use a new phone to call up and a friend can ask Qs.
Good luck with that, and apologies on behalf of all these idiots who jumped on you because they are so darn clever, they have never done anything which in hindsight is a bit naive.
		
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That's right MrsD123, sue sue sue!  This could cost the OP a lot of money and there is no guarantee that she has a case, you really do enjoy a good legal claim don't you 

OP I am sorry you have found yourself in this position but I really don't think you have a leg to stand on, you did not have the horse vetted and he has since developed laminitis, it is entirely possible that this is a management issue that has happened since you got him, without a vetting you cannot prove that it was not.

Horses do take time to settle and quite often display behaviour not shown previously in their old home, others have asked (and sorry if you have already replied) if you are using the same tack, have you also had his back and teeth checked?  Diet can also play a massive part in behavioural issue and it is worth putting him on a fibre only diet with a vit/min supplement.  The other thing to take into account is that you are a novice and maybe are not as confident as you could be when handling and riding him, it takes an absolute saint of a horse not to react to this.

You say you took experienced people with you?  Sadly they may not be as experienced as you presumed (or they would have advised you to have the horse vetted tbh), they were just more 'experienced' than you were.

Try to work through this, horses are complicated so and so's at the best of times and, if you can get a proper trainer to help you, a year from now you may be wondering why you were so worried in the first place


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## Lurky McLurker (25 June 2011)

Horsesforever1 said:



			2. Most black and white cobs will not be "bucking broncos", they may buck,but not "bronco"-like,they arnt built for it.
		
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I haven't read all the replies so sorry if someone else has already mentioned this, but can I just point out that this is definitely not true?  I know this because we all had exactly that dismissive attitude at the yard where I work, when a heavyweight coloured cob came in for reschooling because he apparently "bronced" when mounted.  We all rolled our eyes and said yeah right, tiny bunnyhop buck maybe... until we got someone on him and he tried to turn himself inside out - I have never seen ANY horse bronc like that!  You'd be amazed how agile this hairy great dopes can be...

To the OP - If you've listened to everyone else's advice and confirmed that it's definitely not the saddle, bit, change in environment or anything else other than a true behavioural issue, then I'd advise getting help from someone who specialises in reschooling problem horses (find someone who has a good reputation and proven results, because a lot of pretend experts do more harm than good) - even if you don't want to keep him afterwards anyway, you're not going to be able to get rid of him if he's unrideable.


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## Magicmillbrook (25 June 2011)

Just wanted to say how much I feel for you.  We were seen coming with our first horse many yeras ago.

I cant realy add much more than what the good folks on HHO have already said.

It might be worth sending a very formal letter to the vendor in the hope that they get the willies and cave in.  But I probably wouldnt throw any more good money after bad.

I agree with every one else that you need to the holy trinity of teeth back and tack, also look at his regime.  My cobs just get a look at grass and certainly no hard feed.

If things are still bad, or even if they are not,  get some one good out to help, either with ground work, riding the horse for you or teaching you as your confidence will have taken a bashing.  If the horse is definately not for you then sell - through an honest add or a dealer.  Dont feel bad, horses are too expensive and hard work to be miserable over.  Just chalk it up as another life experience.  Fortunately coloured cobs of that size are always desirable.  Just think yourself lucky you didnt get a TB!  If Good luck and please let us know how you get on.

FYI - I trawl the horse adds every week just for fun.  I remember seeing this add and thinking - if I was looking I would go and see this one.

PPS - yes cobs can and do buck


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## missyme10 (25 June 2011)

Without a vetting, u haven't a leg to stand on, with private sales its buyer beware i'm afraid.

Dont give up on him yet, there are loads of reasons that he could be acting this way, agree with others about getting his back, saddle and teeth checked.
Then when u can eliminate pain u can start working with him, first from the ground then on his back when ready.

I have a gypsey piebald cob, he seemed perfect when viewing, went through a phase of being a horror with major napping, bucking and rearing. 
I was nervous as hell and returning toriding at the time, so just couldn't handle it, he could so easily have been labellled a bad horse.
Turned out, he's smart, put a confident take no crap rider on him he's great, so the solution was i developed a bigger attitude than him. Took time, but i'm a hell of a braver rider for it, and he sure knows who's boss.

Good luck x


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## Amymay (25 June 2011)

Op, a number of things:

What saddle are you using? And has this been checked/fitted by a master saddler?

How much turnout is he getting and what are you feeding?

Has the horse been assessed by a professional bhs instructor?

Has the horse now been vet checked?

Who told you he was laminitis prone (all native breeds are, actually).

How many times did you try him before purchase?

You will have recourse to return the horse and receive a full refund through the courts if you can prove (with professional reports) that you were missold the horse (private sale inc.). But you must have him fully investigated first by equime professionals.


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## DragonSlayer (25 June 2011)

Ottinmeg said:



			. Dragon slayer said exactly what i was going to say to the first reply so saved me the bother ...thanks DS 

Click to expand...

I aim to please.


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## Miss L Toe (25 June 2011)

Amaranta said:



			That's right MrsD123, sue sue sue!  This could cost the OP a lot of money and there is no guarantee that she has a case, you really do enjoy a good legal claim don't you 

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Where did I say sue?


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## PapaFrita (25 June 2011)

MrsD123 said:



			Where did I say sue?
		
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LMAO. What did you mean then?


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## skydancer (26 June 2011)

y dont people give Mrs D123 a break - appreciate she may have p@@@ a few people off but at the end of the day she is entitled to have her opinion - if u dont like it dont read it


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## Clippy (26 June 2011)

Could you not trace a former owner through his passport? They might be of some help...


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## amage (26 June 2011)

OP get a retrospective vetting done. It may be the case that a condition is found that can prove that horse is not as described. I have to say that while I am sorry for the position you are in I would be more cross with the "experts" you brought along rather than the previous owner....why on earth did they let you purchase without you vetting? You haven't come back to the post to reply to the questions what are you feeding and what tack are you using?? When you bought him did you ask about what way he was kept...eg was he field kept or stabled? Does this differ to the way you are keeping him now? I would def get full vet report as to be honest if these are not long standing issues then you haven't a leg to stand on and any vet worth their salt will be able to appraise the situation


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## PapaFrita (26 June 2011)

skydancer said:



			y dont people give Mrs D123 a break - appreciate she may have p@@@ a few people off but at the end of the day she is entitled to have her opinion - if u dont like it dont read it 

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Yes, we are ALL entitled to an opinion and also entitled to disagree with whomever we see fit and if YOU don't like it, don't read it. Hypocrite.


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## Samantha008 (26 June 2011)

can i just say that i dont understand all this talk about vettings...yes if you are not knowledgeable it is a good idea, however a vetting will only pick up what is wrong on the day. it is highly likely that this has happened since the purchase. I bought my horse who sailed through her vetting with a very reputable vet, only to be diagnosed with wobblers 3 weeks later....

OP i would get a vet out, have his back/teeth etc checked if all health is in order find some bloody good rider and see if they can sort him out for you. I dont think you can send them back. By all means try, but the previous owner will say you tried him etc and were happy at the time of the sale. Can i also mention that you did pay quite a cheap price for what sounds like a lovely boy. That does suggest there were this problem before. If you think he was drugged get blood tests done ASAP as it might still be in his system. Try buting him (like horse nurofen, available from the vet) and if that stops the problem then your horse is in pain and he was probably buted when you went to try him. 

Good luck and sorry to hear your first horse wasnt a nice experience. Though we do live and learn


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## stella65 (26 June 2011)

I am hoping OP has not been scared off and will come back and read all the helpful replies i was going to ask in the beginning butmany have already done so if there has been change in - 

feed , tack , time stabled etc etc 

i do hope also that OP has a friend that can visit horse and advise i would not give up on the horse etc not straight away but im sure these things can be worked on and sorted out if op does not have anyone who could advise maybe if she comes back on someone on here local could go and advise her in person i would get someone in to help with schooling if your not able to do it yourself i hope you come back and let us know hats happening


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## Amaranta (26 June 2011)

Samantha008 said:



			can i just say that i dont understand all this talk about vettings...yes if you are not knowledgeable it is a good idea, however a vetting will only pick up what is wrong on the day. it is highly likely that this has happened since the purchase. I bought my horse who sailed through her vetting with a very reputable vet, only to be diagnosed with wobblers 3 weeks later....

OP i would get a vet out, have his back/teeth etc checked if all health is in order find some bloody good rider and see if they can sort him out for you. I dont think you can send them back. By all means try, but the previous owner will say you tried him etc and were happy at the time of the sale. Can i also mention that you did pay quite a cheap price for what sounds like a lovely boy. That does suggest there were this problem before. If you think he was drugged get blood tests done ASAP as it might still be in his system. Try buting him (like horse nurofen, available from the vet) and if that stops the problem then your horse is in pain and he was probably buted when you went to try him. 

Good luck and sorry to hear your first horse wasnt a nice experience. Though we do live and learn 

Click to expand...

Actually, I disagree with you about the vetting, a vetting can also pick up unseen things like heart murmers, can also tell if a horse has suffered from laminitis etc etc.  It is doubly important for a novice to get a vetting, as they would not know what to look out for.

If the horse WAS drugged, the window of test has expired and a blood test now will prove diddly squat - bloods need to be taken at vetting not after the event.  If he was buted up it is also too late (I am assuming the OP has had the horse for more than a week).

The fact remains that the OP, a self proclaimed novice, bought a horse without a vetting, she may have thought she took experienced people with her but it sounds to me they were not as experienced as they led her to believe - it happens all the time.

I do feel sorry for the OP but rather than sending the horse back (I don't think she can as it was a private sale) she needs to take the sensible steps people have advised her to do on here, I am surprised that her 'experienced' YO has not suggested this already tbh.


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## Luci07 (26 June 2011)

Oh what a minefield and I am sorry that all the excitement you had on buying your first horse has gone.

There is no point in rehashing old ground - you  know now you should have had a vetting, and a blood test done. You have been advised to google the number to check your vendor is not a dealer - if there are several adverts then you do have more of a case ( as advised earlier). However, broad light of day - if you were advised to sue through say, small claims, regardless of what you have been told it is very very hard for a private individual to get money back off another - you could end up being paid a pittance a month for x years and still have all your legal costs etc incurred. 

Best advice on here was to a: get a retrospective vetting. b: get out a tape measure and start to monitor your cobs weight - cobs only need to look at fresh grass and get fat and with all this rain, we are seeing a lot of grass/high protein come through. c: check what you are feeding. I have not seen your horse but for a 15 hand cob in light work I would be very suprised to see more than a handful of chaff and nuts twice a day - if that! d saddle - really really important. Ask in your yard if anyone else wants to share the visit to cut costs, make sure you have someone who is clear they are either a saddle FITTER or a master saddler. They are not the same! e: Laminitis, not the end of the world if caught early, learn how to check for pulses/warm feet. Last year we had a warmblood (17 hand!) who had a touch of that. Yard was highly focused on the ponies we had so very laminitis aware and caught this really quickly. We have a welsh section A and he - literally - in 2 hours of being on better grazing (not rich, just a little more) had started to have his feet warming up. Back to the starvation for him much to his disgust.

Get a positive instructor. Do not find someone who belittles you or makes you feed you or your horse is rubbish....!

Horses , even the nicest, kindest horse will test out its boundaries in a new place - they are sussing you out. You might be really unlucky with a serial bronker but on a more positive note, you might just have some teething problems which will teach you a lot and be the beginning of a great relationship. 

And finally - never assume that a horse which is a cob is automatically going to be a bombproof ride. One of the sharpest horses on our yard is a cob, albeit one who is working at AD Med with his dressage but I have known a lot who, while lovely, were not for a real novice to ride.


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## ester (26 June 2011)

where did the op go? I don't think she ever answered the saddle question did she? having seen the original ad pics the one he had in those didn't fit.


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## Marydoll (26 June 2011)

Ella19 said:



			I'm afraid that I don't think you would have a leg to stand on. As sad as it is legally i'm sure you have to proove that the horse showed this behaviour before you bought him and that it was not therefore caused by yourself (not saying it is, just what the law seems to demand!). You said that you rode him and your YO also did whilst at the old property, I presume he was good then and not bucking. Has he definately come with the same saddle? Sometimes people will sell the horse with tack but that tack is probably an old saddle they've been trying to get rid of for ages and the saddle you tried him in is still at their yard!  Other option could be that he'd been doped but proving that without a vetting and bloods is impossible i'm afraid.I'm sorry that this has happened. My advise to you, would be if not already, get him checked by a vet, then a physio or chiropractor (they cannot treat him without vets permission) and then saddler. If all this comes back with nothing wrong then you will have to consider your next options, which will be send him for schooling, sell him or have him put to sleep. I'm sorry to be so blunt and it's an awful situation to be as a novice owner. Lesson learnt, always get a vetting.
		
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Sadly i think this posts about right, i do think buyer beware will come in to play. If hes deemed by a vet to be physically ok and just needs more experienced handlers, you may be able to sell him on and recoup some 
money, but probably not much.
What a shame, but no matter how good an ad sounds or the horse rides get it vetted and bloods taken


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## JingleTingle (26 June 2011)

I feel its a shame the OP hasn't stuck with this thread (apparently, or so it seems) - 

Think there has been a lot of good advice to try and help her out of this difficult situation. But as she hasn't come back on again to answer any of the questions that might help people to understand what might be going on with the horse, and thereby suggest options to try for her and the horse - well its become a rather pointless thread hasn't it?

Without any further input to give a clearer picture I can only assume OP wanted sympathy rather than constructive help/advice. Sorry if that sounds a bit harsh - but although I do have some sympathy I am now finding it difficult to understand exactly what the OP expected in response?


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## brighteyes (26 June 2011)

Now is probably not the time to point the OP in the direction of Shils' thread, is it


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## Derfette (26 June 2011)

elsbells said:



			I don't wish to appear rude, but this is your first posting and by what you have said you sound at best a novice and at worst an idiot or a troll.

Are you for real???
		
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How rude!!! There is no need to post a reply like this! If you don't have anything sensible to post, please don't post at all!!!

Emms, everyone starts off as a novice, but with help and USEFUL advice, I'm sure you'll become alot more confident and knowledgeable in the years to come! Good luck


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## The_snoopster (26 June 2011)

Lurky McLurker said:



			I haven't read all the replies so sorry if someone else has already mentioned this, but can I just point out that this is definitely not true?  I know this because we all had exactly that dismissive attitude at the yard where I work, when a heavyweight coloured cob came in for reschooling because he apparently "bronced" when mounted.  We all rolled our eyes and said yeah right, tiny bunnyhop buck maybe... until we got someone on him and he tried to turn himself inside out - I have never seen ANY horse bronc like that!  You'd be amazed how agile this hairy great dopes can be...

To the OP - If you've listened to everyone else's advice and confirmed that it's definitely not the saddle, bit, change in environment or anything else other than a true behavioural issue, then I'd advise getting help from someone who specialises in reschooling problem horses (find someone who has a good reputation and proven results, because a lot of pretend experts do more harm than good) - even if you don't want to keep him afterwards anyway, you're not going to be able to get rid of him if he's unrideable.
		
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I agree with the above and has for the poster who says cobs dont bronk, yeah whatever, cobs can do some pretty impressive bronking movements. I bought what was supposed to be a genuine happy hacker soon discovered that she could rodeo with the best. And if you managed to stay on for more than 20 seconds she would just rear and practically flip herself over backwards.


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## MotherOfChickens (26 June 2011)

maybe the OP was hoping for an easy answer, which is only human  I also hope that she is still reading, even if she has (understandably) been put off from posting again. Horse buying is a minefield for the majority of us.


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## flowerlady (26 June 2011)

Well the OP hasn't posted or replied to my pm to her/him which other people have asked the same questions but have had no answers especially about the saddle?  

I hope you deep posting OP (Original poster)  Let us know what you do ignore the ones that got on to you they think they know it all.  They don't


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## scarymare (26 June 2011)

Poor OP, have no idea why so many horrid posts


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## skydancer (26 June 2011)

PapaFrita said:



			Yes, we are ALL entitled to an opinion and also entitled to disagree with whomever we see fit and if YOU don't like it, don't read it. Hypocrite.
		
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i take it ur 1 of those people that think they are above everyone else  and no everything but nothing and if people dont agree with you they are wrong - in other words a bully! Dont bother answering this i already know the answer and t4 will not be reading this thread again


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## darkhorse123 (26 June 2011)

skydancer said:



			i take it ur 1 of those people that think they are above everyone else  and no everything but nothing and if people dont agree with you they are wrong - in other words a bully! Dont bother answering this i already know the answer and t4 will not be reading this thread again

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as a new poster ive noticed papafritta change since another poster got her memoirs published and pf didnt - dont  take it personally


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## jrp204 (27 June 2011)

OP, have you googled the sellers phone number? If they have been selling frequently they may be classed as dealers.
Good luck with the horse, it is so disappointing when things are not what they seemed.


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## missieh (27 June 2011)

i.Try the BHS legal helpline;

ii. Try a Solicitor who specialises in Equine Law (some advertise in the back of H&H so worth a phone call);

You may find that threatening her with legal action is enough for her to change her mind, especially if it is in a letter written by a solicitor and she thinks that it may incur legal costs for herself.

iii. Act quickly.

Good luck!


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## Black_Horse_White (27 June 2011)

I really feel for you, i've only had my horse 6 months and have just found out he's got Ringbone in his coffin joints. I'm not a novice and I had him on a weeks trial, and I did have him vetted. You are lucky as you can sell on, Me I'm stuck with mine as it's a health issue and he's only 11. **** happens we have to make the most of it, good luck with what ever you decide to do.


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## Black_Horse_White (27 June 2011)

brighteyes said:



			If it was an overnight change from angel to hell on four feet then I'd suspect dope.  Patches' friend certainly didn't come off best when the person she had sold her (perfectly lovely) pony to took her to court 

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Yes that was me unfortunately, the shoe is now on the other foot. I've just found out my horse of 6 months has Ring-bone in his coffin joints, after my bad experience If the person who sued me could win then me and the OP couldn't fail to lose. But suing is wrong in my opinion, too much goes on already. Although I'm livid life sucks.


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## w1bbler (27 June 2011)

Horses change so much with different riders / environments - my husbands horse was sold as being spooky / cheeky - a few months later he is a dream to ride, very calm & responsive. Can we send him back as he is no longer as advertised!


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## PapaFrita (27 June 2011)

skydancer said:



			i take it ur 1 of those people that think they are above everyone else  and no everything but nothing and if people dont agree with you they are wrong - in other words a bully! Dont bother answering this i already know the answer and t4 will not be reading this thread again

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Blah blah blah blah blah. Stop whining about bullying and defend your position if you have one, which clearly you don't.


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## PapaFrita (27 June 2011)

darkhorse123 said:



			as a new poster ive noticed papafritta change since another poster got her memoirs published and pf didnt - dont  take it personally 

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Please, enlighten me because I have NO idea what you're talking about.


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## Natch (27 June 2011)

Ok, cant be bothered to read 10 pages, but has anyone helped with things like checking tack fits and is suitable, checking his back teeth etc etc etc?


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## ticketyboo (2 July 2011)

Hi Emsie, I think its really brave of you to post here and hope you have not been put off the nasty replies, the majority have been more supportive I hope (go Dragonslayer )
If it was a private sale then sadly you have not got a leg to stand on   If it was a dealer then under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 you may be able to take court action but you will need to be able to find them in order to contact.  Get in touch with Consumer Direct and they will be able to advise you.
Good luck with everything but if you get everything checked out and have good people to help you then you could have many happy years together.
Welcome to the Forum, sorry that you had to have rude replies!!!  There is never a need for that and those people should be ashamed but so nice to see the majority of others offering help, advice and kind words - much better 

Good luck, let us know how you get on x


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## MagicMelon (2 July 2011)

Sorry, but I dont see why you think you can simply return a horse. You wouldnt be able to buy a car, drive it around for a few days/weeks then return it to the owner for a full refund!  Personally as the seller, I would always accept a horse back if the owners had problems within a fortnight (and I have done twice - some people just dont gel with some horses). Thing is, some people will use the money straight away (perhaps to buy another horse) so she may not be able to buy him back. 

She doesnt necessarily have to be aware the horse has had laminitis.  It could have had it prior and some farriers may not point it out - assuming the owner knows about it.  

With regards to the bucking - have you had his back, teeth and saddle checked?  Could be something as simple as that.  Otherwise, did you not try the horse?!  Horses go differently with different people, get an experienced person to ride him and see if he still bucks - he might just be testing you, loads of horses do that at the beginning in a new home.

I dont see how you can take this further legally since it doesnt sound like you had him vetted, or even tried him?  So you were basically buying him blind.  Remember, its seller beware.


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## Miss L Toe (2 July 2011)

MagicMelon said:



			You were basically buying him blind.  Remember, its seller beware.
		
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I don't agree, the vendor advertised the horse as perfect for the family involved, that is why she went to see it, the vendor took her money and then took no responsibility for what happened afterwards. As the purchaser is a novice, the balance of probabilities is that the purchaser is in the right.

The vendor lied in the ad, and did not want to take it back, if it was so good as in the ad, the vendor could sell it somewhere else.

The expression is "caveat empetor", buyer beware, but things have moved on since Julius Caesar ruled Britain.


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## brigantia (2 July 2011)

EVERY novice owner needs an experienced mentor. Nearly EVERY first time horse owner goes through a terrible time of re-adjustment learning to care for and ride a "real" horse rather than an exhausted, overworked riding school plod. 

When I bought my horse she started throwing me and went lame soon after that. I can't blame the seller who clearly loved and cared for the horse. I had her vetted. I had my instructor come out to ride and view her for me. But it turned out her saddle was causing her pain. Apparently the horse put with it for her familiar owner, but having a different novicey rider and being moved to a different stable yard just sent her over the edge behaviour-wise. I couldn't have blamed the seller for this. The only thing I could do was take responsibility, get the physio and saddler out, and when she went lame after an injury in the field, I had to get the vet out and rehab her, giving her weeks off work until she was sound and painfree. During that time I hand walked her, hand grazed her, massaged her sore spots, and she learned to love me. 

Don't give up on the horse, OP. Legally you probably can't do anything re the former owner, but now the horse is your responsibility and you are all he has. Please do good by him and make sure he's pain free. Give him plenty of turn out and minimal hard feed. Get professional help. Sell him on if you need to. But the most important thing is the horse's welfare. It's not his fault his former owner was dishonest.

Good luck.


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## Lobelia_Overhill (2 July 2011)

elsbells said:



			I don't wish to appear rude,
		
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in which case, epic fail,



skydancer said:



			y dont people give Mrs D123 a break - appreciate she may have p@@@ a few people off but at the end of the day she is entitled to have her opinion - if u dont like it dont read it 

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You have to read it in order to know whether or not you like the post



darkhorse123 said:



			as a new poster ive noticed papafritta change since another poster got her memoirs published and pf didnt - dont  take it personally 

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PF wrote a memoir?!

Why was I not informed?  Does it have a chapter on sticks?



Unfortunately it looks like the OP has left the board... I hope she comes back and reads the helpful posts


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