# No advantage to treeless saddles?



## CastleMouse (22 April 2008)

http://www.yourhorse.co.uk/Your-Horse-Ne...eeless-saddles/


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## Rowreach (22 April 2008)

Thanks for posting that, it is interesting, but I bet if they asked my horses (treeless for over a year now) they would tell them that they are much happier not having "well-fitted treed saddles" on their backs.  
	
	
		
		
	


	




 And as their rider, I am happy to say that I have less back/coccyx pain, my riding has improved, and my horses are going better than ever, on the flat and over fences.  
	
	
		
		
	


	




 I'm just about to start a youngster in treeless, and I never plan to put a treed saddle on her back.


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## conniegirl (22 April 2008)

if you ask my connemara he's much happier in a treed saddle. i put a treeless on him and he spent the entire time trying to get it off he did not like it (he made it very very clear as he started bucking and panicing when i put it on him and when i did get him calm enough to sit on him he spent the entire time bucking and rearing, he does exactly the same when his saddle is pinching or putting pressure on although normaly he doesnt start untill you get on). I also personaly know of 2 horses whos backs have been ruined by treeless saddles one to the point where it can no longer be ridden.


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## Skhosu (22 April 2008)

very interesting. What I had always suspected I had to say, anything on their back will have pressure and I have no problem with an original well fitting tree saddle.


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## Scarlett (22 April 2008)

As with everything to do with horses what suits one won't suit another - personally I have no interest in going treeless, my horses are happy in their Saddle Co treed saddles which are regularily checked along with their backs. I'm sure there are loads of horses out there that will go well in treeless saddles, but it doesnt mean that its a golden rule and we should all follow it, nor does one article mean all treeless saddles are evil - the problems usually come when people force something upon their horse that doesnt suit the actual horse because its what that person believes is right, like going barefoot or an ill fitting saddle.... 

I know I have had to change many of the things I have always done with my horses to accomodate my TB, but by taking the time to look into alternatives and ask questions I now have a much happier horse, and thus I am much happier, even if my previous beliefs have been proven wrong...!


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## conniegirl (22 April 2008)

I only put a treeless on him as it was lent to me whilst my treed saddle was being custom made (worth every penny of the fortune spent to make it fit my connemara and the saddler comes up to check it at least once every 3 months), he hated the treeless so much that i ended up riding him bareback for 6 weeks strangely he had no objections to that. 

I personaly cant see how a treeless saddle could reduce the pressure on the spine anyway. As an engineer i'd love to know the theory and maths behind how they are proposing that a treeless does spread the pressure. If someone can show me the theory behind it then i'd be more convinced.


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## JessPickle (22 April 2008)

but surely the society of master saddlers is certain to come up with that result for their own interest, a treeless doesn't need a saddle fitter only needs to be fitted to the rider therefore would loose trade.


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## suestowford (22 April 2008)

It's a very interesting article, particularly the bit about the heavier rider who rides lighter than the smaller one.

But I think the key phrase in it is 'well-fitting treed saddle'. I wonder how many horses really do have a well-fitting saddle? Things have certainly improved over the last few years with adjustable saddles like the Wow but I'm sure we have all read horror stories about saddles that don't fit, which have been fitted by a master saddler. I think Scarlett is right, you have to find what suits your horse best, and I think we are very lucky to have so many different saddles to choose from.


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## YorkshireLass (22 April 2008)

Meanwhile in the real world.... very few people use a well fitting, traditionaly made saddle that fits the horse correctly throughout its yearly fluctuations in condition and shape!

So, it could be said that using a treeless saddle is far better than using one saddle that only fits correctly for a small part of the year... which is what most people have!

We don't all have a stock of quality traditional saddles that we can fit to acomodate our horses changing shapes!


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## Tinypony (22 April 2008)

I first tried treeless because I was having loads of problems finding a saddler who could provide me with a well-fitting treed saddle for my cob.  I tried a friend's Bob Marshall western-style treeless and it felt as if my chunky cob had grown a hand and sprouted wings, he moved so differently and with so much freedom.
I then got one of the treeless saddles that has blocks for the pommel and cantle.  At this point it's fair to point out that there is wide variation in style and quality in treeless saddles, and these with the blocks can cause huge problems if they don't fit horse and rider correctly.  So my saddle was great for one of my horses, but not all of them.  
Having tried rather a lot of treeless saddles, at the moment I now use a Sensation and a Freeform, and between them all 3 of my riding horses are sorted out.  All of these saddles are used with an appropriate pad give clearance over the spine.  I have adapted the pads by putting in "memory foam" (very expensive) and that I always ride with these under the saddle.  This foam distributes weight, and I have tested this by having friends stand on my hands with the pads on top!  So I assume it also helps my horses with my bony bum!  So far I haven't had any pressure problems and I have a nice even wear pattern when the saddles are taken off.
At a clinic I ran last year we tested several treeless saddles using a Port Lewis impression pad and it did highlight pressure problems with certain saddles.  The one with the blocks had pressure at the back - this was because the rider wasn't sitting correctly and was leaning back on the cantle.  (You would also get this if the saddle was too small for the rider).  The older-style Ansur had pressure on the sides of the wither, and we couldn't quite work that out, but it was probably because they are very flat, and the numnah recommended didn't add a gullet.  A Torsion saddle showed horrendous pressure under the stirrup bars, and a slight line over the top of the back - well it seems the bars are hung off a single strip of probably webbing in the fabric of the saddle... and the rider was quite reliant on her stirrups.  My saddles with their pads performed well in our amateur testing, with different riders.
Long, but I hope that was a bit interesting.


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## Donkeymad (22 April 2008)

Interesting report and interesting replies.
I agree that the SMS are working for their own benefit as Treeless do not need the saddlers. Also, as also already said, not enough treed saddles do fit correctly.
The treeless does spread the weight over a larger area (they didn't mention that point) and because they don't pinch or impede movement, horses tend to prefer them.
However, no type of saddle, treeless, treed, stock etc will suit every horse. Therefore I think there is plenty of room for all.
(Note, they didn't say they were any worse than treed saddles either)


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## ajf (22 April 2008)

Again "well-fitting" is the key here.  If it don't fit it'll hurt, if it does the pony is fine


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## Tharg (23 April 2008)

How does it spread weight over a larger area Donkeymad?


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## Tinypony (23 April 2008)

If anyone is thinking of going treeless I would say try before you buy.  You can hire a lot of them, and Better Saddles will visit with a selection for you.
I know people rave about things like the Cheyenne, but I think all those that have two blocks fore and aft are rather old technology now.


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