# Searching for Vivianne, 16hh KWPN mare sold in Ashford auction 27th October



## mwill (29 October 2011)

As the last post was removed due to inappropriate comments, I would like to ask if anybody who bought this mare or knows where this mare is to get in touch. 

The facts:

This horse was sold for £100 as a broodmare and the purchaser was offering a good home. The horse was the subject of a LOU claim a few weeks previous and the owner was thought the horse was going to a good home.

The new owner then tried to sell this horse shortly after and then went onto sell the horse in the Ashford auction. The details in the catalogue were false and we have the full history of the mare. The auction did not want to help with our enquiry. We really hope somebody knows the whereabouts of the horse. Please get in touch. Thank you


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## applecart14 (31 October 2011)

mwill said:



			The horse was the subject of a LOU claim a few weeks previous and the owner was thought the horse was going to a good home.
		
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Please may I ask as I am curious.  I thought if a horse was subject to a LOU claim then it had a brand which was the letter 'L' in a circle to denote that this animal was 'loss of use'?

The reason being presumably so it could not be bought unwittingly by someone who did not know its history.

How come this didn't happen?  Not being rude/offensive/critical or anything else, just merely curious as to how LOU actually protects people, or not as the case may be.


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## Tinseltoes (31 October 2011)

applecart14 said:



			Please may I ask as I am curious.  I thought if a horse was subject to a LOU claim then it had a brand which was the letter 'L' in a circle to denote that this animal was 'loss of use'?

The reason being presumably so it could not be bought unwittingly by someone who did not know its history.

How come this didn't happen?  Not being rude/offensive/critical or anything else, just merely curious as to how LOU actually protects people, or not as the case may be.
		
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Good  point. The horse possibly could of be bought  by the meatman as in her other post she said it was sold cheap.Not many people would buy a horse for a lot of money which could not be used and has  loss of use on it. 
I always thought loss of use was exactly that???????


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## be positive (31 October 2011)

This horse was, I believe, sold as a companion/broodmare for £100 to a person that offered a "home for life" a few weeks later it was entered for the sales as a riding horse, not able to event due to LOU, it sold for £300 at the sale,the OP would like to find where it went.


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## Tinseltoes (31 October 2011)

be positive said:



			This horse was, I believe, sold as a companion/broodmare for £100 to a person that offered a "home for life" a few weeks later it was entered for the sales as a riding horse, not able to event due to LOU, it sold for £300 at the sale,the OP would like to find where it went.
		
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Chances are the meatman had it????? Thats meat money.Sad if it did go there but what can you do???

Have they phoned TURNERS OR POTTERS to see if it has gone thru there????? Just a thought.


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## miller (31 October 2011)

May not have yet that the brand - friends hoerse that she claimed LOU on was a good 6 or 8 weeks before branded.

LOU would only apply to 'insured use' so if insured for adv eventing could well be sold as a hack 

Don't know anything about this horse or this case though


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## Rainbow01 (31 October 2011)

Do you have any photos of this mare??, as I think I may know where she is.


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## Cuffey (31 October 2011)

Rainbow01 said:



			Do you have any photos of this mare??, as I think I may know where she is.
		
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Picture here
http://trfrolics.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=hpsale&thread=35235&page=1#318237


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## Rainbow01 (31 October 2011)

Cuffey... thanks for this, actually this is where I saw her advertised, has she been sold on since this advert then?


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## Cuffey (31 October 2011)

Rainbow01 said:



			Cuffey... thanks for this, actually this is where I saw her advertised, has she been sold on since this advert then?
		
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I dont know all the ins and outs but yes sold through Ashford market for £300 without full details being given of why she had LOU.  Original loaners trying to trace buyer so they can tell them what her problems are.


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## Tinseltoes (31 October 2011)

Wish them good luck on finding her!!!!


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## YasandCrystal (31 October 2011)

miller said:



			May not have yet that the brand - friends hoerse that she claimed LOU on was a good 6 or 8 weeks before branded.

LOU would only apply to 'insured use' so if insured for adv eventing could well be sold as a hack 

Don't know anything about this horse or this case though
		
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AS far as I am aware the insurance companies ONLY pay up LOU once branding is completed, otherwise this would be so open to abuse as you can imagine! I know this to be the case with my horse.


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## Goldenstar (31 October 2011)

We have a IOU horse and he had to be branded before anything was paid out it would stop him being sold not that I ever would


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## Goldenstar (31 October 2011)

poor mare I wonder were she is.


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## Tinseltoes (31 October 2011)

Maybe she didnt have the brand LOU yet as someone said earlier. She could be anywhere by now.Maybe a dealer bought her or she went to Potters,as she was sold for meat money. What she was sold for doesnt secure her a future.These horses selling this low attract the meatman,which is soooo sad. I hope she has gone to a nice home. Hope you can find her!!!


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## Archangel (1 November 2011)

OP - I have pm'd you what I remember from the auction. Hope it is helpful.

She did have the LOU brand and her hind leg was very obviously thickened.  
Fingers crossed for her.


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## Tinseltoes (1 November 2011)

RebelRebel said:



			OP - I have pm'd you what I remember from the auction. Hope it is helpful.

She did have the LOU brand and her hind leg was very obviously thickened.  
Fingers crossed for her.
		
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Hope OP finds her.


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## mwill (1 November 2011)

Thanks guys for all your replies and thanks for the nice pm's. Just to clarify the mare was stamped lou before she went to the new home, she was sold to home for 100 as a broodmare. She was then advertised shortly after for 900 and subsequently went on to the ashford auction. The description in the catalogue was utter rubbish and complete lies. The leg that was being described was wrong, she had actually had Lou paid out on the front leg, and she should not be jumped, only light hack. The injury was very recent and she had not done any type of be eventing!!


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## Tinseltoes (1 November 2011)

Hope you find her and maybe you can buy her back???????


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## mwill (1 November 2011)

I hope we can find her too. It was so upsetting to see that a horse that has had a lot of time and love put into her over the last two yrs, just gets pushed and shoved about like a piece of meat. We just want to make sure she is ok and to make the new owner aware of her real injuries and pass on vet info etc. The auction acted very irresponsibly but still letting her go ahead in the sale knowing her history and they took the vets details and assured me they would let me know the outcome. Unfortunately this did not happen. I really wish the owner had done the right thing and had the mare pts, but as someone was offering a home as broodmare, due to the mare having good breeding, she decided to let her go. I have learnt a lot out of this and realise just how ruthless horsey people can be


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## Dovorian (4 November 2011)

Can you say how Hobbs Parker responded and what questions they were presented with?


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## bigears (17 November 2011)

Were Parkers made aware that the description of the reason for loss of use i.e. not to be ridden and jumped - before the sale?  If so, they would be pretty liable, as while the sales entry mentions the loss of use, it warrants her as sound as a hunter which would imply that she can gallop and jump.  I would be very afraid that she went for meat at that price.  I hope she is ok.

There are some nasty people out there in the horse world with absolutely no ethics or conscience.

'Vivianne' Bay, bn 11/05/02, 16hh KWPN mare. Sire: Lester. Dam: Anngloes. Extremely well bred mare with Lucky Boy, Llangraf lines. She has competed British Eventing but an injury to the cartilage in her hind fetlock in 2009 stopped her going any further. Loss of use was claimed for high level eventing but after a year off in 2009 she was cleared fit and sound for local level/riding club competing which she has been doing since and therefore is warranted fully sound. Snaffle mouth, easy ride, no vices, good to box or trailer, catch, shoe, etc. Not marish and a pleasure to own and do. Ideal for someone who wants to win at local level or just wants a nice straightforward horse to have fun on. Warranted as: Sound in wind, eyes and action. Suitability warranted as: Hunter, hack & quiet to ride - Sold for £300


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## Tinseltoes (17 November 2011)

There are some nasty people out there in the horse world with absolutely no ethics or conscience.

e - Sold for £300

 I would be very afraid that she went for meat at that price.  I hope she is ok.

I was thinking the same thing.


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## samandcasper (22 November 2011)

if its the horse in the link that the other member posted tht ur trying to trace, she is with a lady i know, i have had 2 horses from her and she has had one of mine and u dont need to worrie urself as she will be very well looked after and the lady will make sure she finds a nice home, from the pic i have seen from my friend shes doing very well and just had a slight sore back xx


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## mwill (23 November 2011)

samandcasper, I think you will find that this lady was the one that sold her in the sale for £300!! She is not with this lady any more hence the post


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## Clippy (24 November 2011)

It's been said so many times. If you can't keep an unsound horse, you either pts or sell and if you sell, then you can't cry about it later. There are people who buy unsound/unridable horses and lie to get them cheap, then lie to sell them dear. Poor Vivianne is just another on a very long list


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## GinnieRedwings (24 November 2011)

Clippy said:



			It's been said so many times. If you can't keep an unsound horse, you either pts or sell and if you sell, then you can't cry about it later. There are people who buy unsound/unridable horses and lie to get them cheap, then lie to sell them dear. Poor Vivianne is just another on a very long list
		
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Sadly so very true.

One of my co-liveries sold her very successful 13 year old working hunter mare after it became clear she would never quite recover from her suspensory ligament injury, to a forever broodmare home... only to find her 3 years later in a dealer's yard being sold as a 12 year old schoolmistress for eventing... She bought her back and she now lives her day plodding along the country lanes.

But yes, if I couldn't keep a LOU horse, as harsh as it sounds, I'd pts in a heart beat.


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## youngfarmer (24 November 2011)

sharon1959 said:



			Good  point. The horse possibly could of be bought  by the meatman as in her other post she said it was sold cheap.Not many people would buy a horse for a lot of money which could not be used and has  loss of use on it. 
I always thought loss of use was exactly that???????
		
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Not necessarily. I know a horse who is marked as LOU (with the L in a circle) and he is now a college school horse teaching people how to ride cross country etc. Never has a lame day etc-he had a small injury which made it impossible for him to keep competing at high level, so he "lost his use" and owners wanted a pay out from insurance for a field ornament. 

LOU doesn't always mean they have no use, just means they can't be used for the use intended on insurance etc-whether that is competing at high level still or not competing in that discipline at all


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## Tinseltoes (24 November 2011)

youngfarmer said:



			Not necessarily. I know a horse who is marked as LOU (with the L in a circle) and he is now a college school horse teaching people how to ride cross country etc. Never has a lame day etc-he had a small injury which made it impossible for him to keep competing at high level, so he "lost his use" and owners wanted a pay out from insurance for a field ornament. 

LOU doesn't always mean they have no use, just means they can't be used for the use intended on insurance etc-whether that is competing at high level still or not competing in that discipline at all
		
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Ah I got you. Hope that horse found a nice home.


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## samandcasper (30 November 2011)

sorry but i think ur wrong, a lady called Kimberly Potton commented on her pic and said... Looks like she's going well u had a bargin there of me lol x

to witch my friend commented tht her back was out and her album dont say sold maybe my friend was the 1 who brought her for the £300?? i have just asked if she still has her .. there is no way this lady would have dont anything to hurt the mare weather she could be ridden or not xx


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## Queenbee (1 December 2011)

I assume this was on FB?  OP try googling the above name, cant be that many and see if you can see the wall to see who's pic she commented on, or perhaps S&C would be kind enough to message you a name so you can be sure it this woman has the mare or not.


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## samandcasper (1 December 2011)

yes was facebook, if u have a facebook add springbank farm the horse is on the ladies facebook not Kimberly Potton she commented the pic...

sorry wasnt being funny i was just trying to help i know what its like to not know where a old horse or who ur horse is i have a 17 page post on here trying to trace his previous owners so i know what its like!!


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## mwill (2 December 2011)

These were the people that put the horse in the sale! They do not have the horse any more!!! The post was written way before the sale


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