# dodgy dealers and bare faced liars!!



## jess31 (10 October 2012)

Raaaaaaaaaaaaaa, that is how Id like to explain my frame of mind right now after a day from hell, actually now months of hell thanks to liars and bad dealers. 
My poor horse was sold when my marrige failed and I had no choice, thought he would be in a happy forever home with a "friend" that I sold him too with full knowledge of his health issues for just £500 on the condition she kept him forever, little did I know she had started dealing and passed him to another dealer,managed to trace him in his new home thanks to the forum, again thought he would be happy ever after but no, he went back to a dealer then onto another dealer who proceeded to sell him to a lovely lady without any truth behind him at all, kept all his catching issues, shoeing isses, paralysed larynx issues, riggy behaviour and general fear of most things that make him jump and she kindly listened to all I had to say once I traced him again(thanks to the forum) and still brought him as he is a good boy once you gain his trust and work with him but have found out today that due to neglact his hooves are wasted and his future is limited and she is ALOT of money down and hasnt got the horse she thought. Luckily she is lovely and we are going to fight this and get some justice and offer my poor boy a good, safe, secure life forever. How these people sleep at night knowing the dangers they put not only the horses but the poor people that buy the horses in is sickening, Ive gone from being an emotional wreck to know just angry as hell!!!!


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## BBH (10 October 2012)

Sorry a bit lost there.

Did you buy him originally with all these issues ? and you have been honest in your assessment of him when selling to your friend, she then passed him on but subsequent dealers who haven't and ultimately the lady who has him now knew nothing of his issues and is now faced with sorting them out.

Some dealers lie unfortunately and there appears to be very little we can do about it other than warn others off.

I am sorry to hear about your boy but at least he seems to have landed on his feet with a lady who takes the responsibility seriously and will do right by him.


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## jess31 (10 October 2012)

Hi, I bought him knowing full well all his issues and even when I handed over the money I said to the chap, I know he isnt worth this but I just need to know he is mine for good as I had only previously had him on loan and was facing losing him unless I could buy him, so I borrowed the money and did it!! I sold him after 2 and a half happy years to my so called mate and she knew every thing about him when she passed him on behind my back, when I traced him he wasnt even being called his name, he was being called his show name, they hadnt told the girl his stable name or any of his issues, he was then retuned after 18 months to the original dealer who passed him on again to another dealer which sold him to the lady who has him now and she knew nothing of any of his issues even though Id been given a tip off too who had him and had contacted them saying I hpoe you are aware that you are selling a horse as a show jumper which he jacked in a long time ago and was physically unfit to be sold to a competion home, got my self a warning off by the other dealer involved but I stood my ground and argued that what they are doing is wrong for the horse and the potential owners. They hung up on me and carried on regardless!!
This new lady is lovely and would have easily coped with his larnx as they onle wanted a hack and a few local small comps and is the sort of person that could fix the confidence issues too but I had no idea about his feet being so bad so couldnt fore warn her and now she has had to find out the hard way, its just so sad that it has come to this, I feel so responsible for selling him in the first place but I had no options and beleived he was going to a loving forever home.  its all so upsetting.


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## SnowPhony (10 October 2012)

There are too many horrible people out there that think nothing of the horses welfare or the pain, heartache and sometimes injury to other people their lies may cause.

I was caught out myself once. Bit different as pony as completely faultless but I was lied to when selling her, she was promised a forever home and I was promised first refusal. 6 weeks later she'd been sold for at least 3 times the price they paid. I sold her cheap because I knew and liked the people that had been loaning her and seemed to really love the pony and were doing well. They sure sure me coming!


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## jess31 (10 October 2012)

I feel for you, Thats exactly what happened to me, trusted someone enough to sell him at an already really hard time for an honest price that reflected his issues and health problems on the promise he'd stay put or Id have first refusal if she did sell him but within months he was no more and I only found out because I contacted her asking how he was doing and she said she had had to sell him as he was dangerous, (rubbish), and she couldnt remember where he was sold to, (also rubbish), she made alot on him and just let him go to another dealer that was far away but die to the powers on H&H forum I found him and now have gone through it all again  xx


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## Oldenburg27 (10 October 2012)

I sadly have been done by a dealer lost about 8.5k due to lies. I really dont know how she sleeps at night cause i know i would not be able too. One of the horse very nearly killed me  And because she could not sell it she stuck it in foal to hide its issues and said it would be rideable after the foal was weaned!! Gets me sooooo mad 

But there is nothing i can do, no money and no horse after all of it


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## joeanne (10 October 2012)

You sold him......naff all you can do about any of it.
The buyer on the other hand MAY have a case if he was mis-sold to her.


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## Irishbabygirl (10 October 2012)

The new owner will definitely have a case against the dealer and hopefully get her money back. But the issue here is that the new owner and the OP don't want this horse to go back to the dealer and to an uncertain future. Has anyone had any success of getting their money back (or at least some of it) and keep the horse?


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## jess31 (10 October 2012)

Just waiting for news now on what the dealer has said to the lady that has him now, fingers crossed she can have her money back and we can sort something out with the horse between us and he can have the live he deserves, in work or retired, Im not worried either way.
These people need to be stopped, I just cant understand if your a horse lover why you would behave in such a way, baffles me!!


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## jess31 (10 October 2012)

Oldenburg27 said:



			I sadly have been done by a dealer lost about 8.5k due to lies. I really dont know how she sleeps at night cause i know i would not be able too. One of the horse very nearly killed me  And because she could not sell it she stuck it in foal to hide its issues and said it would be rideable after the foal was weaned!! Gets me sooooo mad 

But there is nothing i can do, no money and no horse after all of it 

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This is awful, I really feel for you, I agree I dont know how they can sleep at night. Im glad you wherent hurt and sorry for your financial loss and also for the sad life that faces the mare, its terrible, I hope you are in a better position now.


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## irishdraft (10 October 2012)

No I dont know how they sleep at night, a friend of mine 75 year old lady went to a certain dealer in the south east, she was a returning customer, for a made hunter, she was sold a horse that had never hunted, was told it had come over from ireland after being hunted by a 12 year old girl, only silly dealer had left all paperwork from where he had purchased the horse from in the passport and it wasnt ireland. Friend phoned previous owner, no, horse had never hunted, friend took horse hunting anyway as she liked it, horse went bananas when it saw hounds, good job my 75 year old friend is a tough old boot. Took horse back to dealer who was still shouting he had bought horse from ireland, friend left horse with dealer and came away with an IOU for the money, will she get it, not on your nellie.


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## carolinemistydoodles (10 October 2012)

I hope your friend takes action against the dealer she has suffered at the hands of.  This would not have been an isolated case i am sure especially if it was a dealer in Kent - may be worth your friend looking at the Epona site.  Too many people are suffering and this story is so so familiar -   we need HHO to look in to dealers in the south east and help towards cleaning out the dodgy dealers from this industry........... after all lives are at risk and those poor horses are suffering also.


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## Shooting Star (10 October 2012)

To argue the other side though have to say that I brought my boy from a dealer (and in the SE too - shock, horror!) earlier this year and they were perfectly truthful with letting me know what they knew for fact and some things they'd been told but hadn't been able to validate.

Most of the horses I viewed were with dealers, the majority were professional and in my opinion genuine.Yes there were some dodgy ones where even if the horse had been pooing gold I'd not have brought but same applied to private sales too


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## Pearlsasinger (10 October 2012)

I quite understand that you feel that you and the horse were let down.  However you also told the person you got the horse from that it would have a home for life..........


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## joeanne (10 October 2012)

Pearlsasinger said:



			I quite understand that you feel that you and the horse were let down.  However you also told the person you got the horse from that it would have a home for life..........
		
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A bit Pot/Kettle/Black then do you not think?

I wonder if the person you bought the horse from feels the same way about you maybe?
Long and the short of it is this....you sold the horse. You did not loan him and keep ownership and control of him.
Therefore you have no say in what happens to him.
Its down to the new owner to pursue a case IF she feels she was sold a horse that does not match the description in the advert.


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## carolinemistydoodles (11 October 2012)

I agree with you Polly Pewee that not all dealers are dodgy which is what i said in my comments and the only way to sort the chaff from the wheat so to speak would be if someone like HHO started investigations..............surely the honest , law abiding  dealers should be highlighted and the unscrupulious ones disposed off.


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## Roasted Chestnuts (11 October 2012)

I hate the term home for life. NOBODY is clairvoyant and crap happens in life you just sometimes have to choose between you or the animals as to who gets what they need to stay healthy.

I love my pony and he really does owe me nothing after nearly 12 years together but he had to go on loan beg of this year as I couldn't afford his keep. He's back from loan and I will admit its not ideal moneywise but he's got grazing and shelter and what he needs and that's it I'm afraid. If I had to lose my job it would have to be either loaned out again or PTS, at his age I wouldn't sell him.

OP its a shame for the horse and if the lady gets her money back it might just be kinder to have the horse PTS if he has feet issues that are so bad.

No point in putting him through pain in the future


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## POLLDARK (11 October 2012)

Perhaps a registered list of reputable dealers, who have to prove they are reputable, could somehow be collated by ,say, the BHS. There would be minimum standards of conduct & horse welfare etc. required. The dealers would pay a subscription which would cover all running costs. People would have some assurance buying from these people so they would get more custom which would encourage more dealers to join the list. Thoughts anyone ?


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## Carefreegirl (11 October 2012)

OP - contact MrsB. She has a facebook page (not sure if right terminology as don't do facebook) called epona stars, there's also a link on her signature.

I'm clicked on the link and read the page that comes up so you can read it even if you're not on  registered on there.


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## Wizzkid (11 October 2012)

joeanne said:



			A bit Pot/Kettle/Black then do you not think?

I wonder if the person you bought the horse from feels the same way about you maybe?
Long and the short of it is this....you sold the horse. You did not loan him and keep ownership and control of him.
Therefore you have no say in what happens to him.
Its down to the new owner to pursue a case IF she feels she was sold a horse that does not match the description in the advert.
		
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Agree with this. I don't think once you have sold a horse you can have anymore say in it, unless you buy him back.


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## maree t (11 October 2012)

I bough a pony from a dealer in kent. She was totally honest about the pony and we took a chance that my daughter would manage her. As it turned out she didnt and when we contacted her she arranged to swap for another pony that she had coming in. She couldnt have been more helpful and I have recommended her to friends so perhaps there could be some sort of system with feedback like ebay ?. So difficult though to be able to leave negative comments when it is somebodies perception of the events, with no proof it could damage somebodies reputation ? We could have blamed her for the first pony ? 
How would you make people register as a dealer if they are dodgy ?


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## POLLDARK (11 October 2012)

I would think that any register would only want the good dealers, the others could fend for themselves. A proper bill of sale (which would be mandatory) could outline what people were buying with any known problems & what conditions a buyer would have to meet to return the animal. The buyer would have to sign to say they understand & agree to the terms of sale. Everyone would then know what they were taking on & the responsibility would lie with them not the dealer.


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## jess31 (11 October 2012)

I dont think that all dealers are bad, I know a dealer that takes it very seriously and hates the way people get ripped off by the not so honest ones out there.
I beleive that if you choose to sell your horse to a known dealer you have to excpet that theres a huge chance you wont know what happens to that horse, I however did not make this decison,I sold him to a friend, saying Pot Kettle Black comments arent true to me at all, I never had any intention of selling my boy, but when you find yourself with a failing marriage, working a 60+ hour week and caring for your 10 year old sometimes you have to do whats in the best interest of the animal, I stressed over this for a long time and was delighted when this so called friend agreed to buy him and even if he wouldnt ever jump again he would have a forever home on their big estate as a companion horse, I sold him under all impression he would be safe and secure and if she did have to sell him Id get first refusal, If Id had known this is where we'd end up Id have found a way to get through it, prob resulting in huge amounts of debt and an even more unstable me, not helpful to anyone. I feel guilty every day for what has happened and wish I could turn back time, If I can get him back I fully intend to do so and that is where he will stay, with me, in the mean time he is safe and secure with an absolutly lovely family. As for the man I brought him from, He never conatcted me about the horse again, it was a buisness deal for him there was no emotional connection else that would have been a great option for me when I had to part with him in the first place.
Sometimes in life you have to make these horrible decisions and you get stung by deceitful people with no morals, all I can do now is keep it all crossed that this has a happy ending and he stays where he is or comes home to me, live and learn...in this case the hard way.
I feel for anyone that has been effected by stories like this, it makes me really sad that others have had to go through all this, I also feel for the decent dealers out there that get their names tarnished by stuff like this, but mostly I feel for the horses, I hope karma comes around with a huge kick in the butt!!!


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## Lou.mgzr (23 May 2014)

I bought a horse from a guy after a horrible experience with my first horse. He is a breeder who I asked to find me a horse.  Lovely horse my dreams come true. He started to go down hill after about 4mths. Not really lame but just didn't feel right behind. Ended up taking him to vets for investigation . He had chronic hind suspensories in both legs, chronic sacroiliac pain despite Physio sessions, narrowing of spinal cord with arthritis. After much heart ache & debate I ended up putting him down a week later. A month later I meet a lady who recognises him from previous yard. Turns out he came from an apparent reputable dealer in Isfield, East Sussex (would love to tell their name but not sure if it's allowed). She was there when my horse was there & turns out they pumped him full of cortisone & got rid of him to the guy who was looking for me. Dont no if he knew or not. I would like to swear at them but that's not allowed either. I had him 5stage vetted but turns out that's no crystal ball!!


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## WelshD (23 May 2014)

jess31 said:



			...... even when I handed over the money I said to the chap, I know he isnt worth this but I just need to know he is mine for good.......
		
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I don't see how you expected someone to give the horse a home for life when you committed to and didn't

I hope the dealer does right by the new owner and she does right by the horse though not sure she can ask for much money back without returning the horse


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## misskk88 (23 May 2014)

POLLDARK said:



			Perhaps a registered list of reputable dealers, who have to prove they are reputable, could somehow be collated by ,say, the BHS. There would be minimum standards of conduct & horse welfare etc. required. The dealers would pay a subscription which would cover all running costs. People would have some assurance buying from these people so they would get more custom which would encourage more dealers to join the list. Thoughts anyone ?
		
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Haven't read other replies, but while this is a nice idea in theory, as soon as it starts becoming about money and profit- surely any regulating authority may let those who are not exatly reputable slip through the net for the sake of profit (Take a look at 'freedom farms' and what Hillside Animal Sanctuary has uncovered about them as an example). There will still be many Dealers who won't bother joining, and would carry on their horrible ways... I think something along these lines however, and licenses to breed should be a legality. 

There are reputable Dealers, but the lack of regulating authorities, licenses, support from the likes of any equine charities etc, means these poor horses end up in horrendous situations and homes, before being shipped off to the meat man. Over breeding (and bad over breeding at that) has caused many of these issues..... Not enough competition to keep prices stable or high, meaning anyone can buy and 'breed', and anyone can purchase a horse.... if prices were stable and competitive, it may sort out those who do not see horses as a 24/7 job, as well as stopping Dealers who buy cheap, sell cheap (often breeding very poor quality) because the investment needed would be too much for someone who sees it as a quick money maker.

On another note.... bit unfair to pick on the OP... situations change, life changes, and I am sure after a failed marriage, she probably feels devastated enough, without finding out her poor horse has ended up in this scenario. She probably thought that while going through such a difficult time, she could rely on a friend, whom I guess she had no reason to doubt. All I can say is that you are lucky to have traced him, and if you and new owner can support his welfare moving forward, at least there is some good from this.


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