# The last straw



## ladyaga (11 August 2017)

I will be as brief as I can, I have bought 6 breeding packages from the vets, for my 6 retired eventing/showjumping mares, we have two foals this year, both super sorts. it includes all scans some jabs etc. I have not gone into this lightly, and am using stallions with a fee of in excess £1200 each [Ramiro B] for two of them, of which this mare is one of them
Main vet for repro from practise has been watching this mare who missed last year due to no scans at the stud, she retained fluid, so was empty, She is not young, but a Cruising mare, so we have gone on to try this year again. Shes 17.
Main repro vet had injected her, she has taken a while to get a decent size Folical, on last Monday repro vet rang to say he was on holiday, but to order the semen to come on Tuesday, which I did, partner of practise came on monday to scan at 12-30 and said folical was not big enough, it was 30cm and to cancel order. which I did, it has still cost me the collection, but not the postage. [£156 to collect and send] He scanned the other mare too, and said not yet. He came on Wednesday, and to my disbelief and dismay the older mare had ovulated. I was a bit suspicious on monday at the scanning as the folical looked a slipper shape, but I did not say anything. Main vet know, didn't he.
This vet has been going on and on about August being the latest to AI mares. I am so so upset too. Anyway, he said on wed he needed to get semen into 2nd mare, this was on wed scan, so we had to drive down to whitchurch  280 miles round trip and collect it and we did not get back till 7pm, and he nearly was not going to come and inseminate her, telling me to put it in the fridge. But I told him the AI centre had said it must go in tonight as it would lose another 10% of quality over night. So he came, made a song and dance about getting it in the right place etc. but its in. £1200 up the u know where.
Got to try and see funny side, but how and what would you all do, the loss of the cycle, the mare turning 18 next year [would be her first foal] her breeding and she has eventing points too. the cost of the package which no doubt they will expect me to pay for,


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## minmax (12 August 2017)

Argh! 
Its a shame you hadn't got someone local with some chilled available for the mare that ovulated. Both my mares caught after ovulation this year. 
How disappointing.
Fingers crossed your other mare took.


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## Equi (12 August 2017)

Would you not send the mare down? Natural is by far superior, and less likelihood of throwing money to the wind.


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## ladyaga (13 August 2017)

I see your point, it would of been useful, but we are being very choosy with the stallions, I don't compete anymore, so the foals will be our shop window, breeding the best I can afford, any suggestions for what people are looking for most welcome, what's in fashion, must haves for eventing. All our mares are retired eventers.


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## Montmorency (13 August 2017)

With the 17 year old mare if there is no pregnancy this time around (I can't work out whether you know for def yet or not) then I would just start early next year. If a repro exam shows all is healthy then I would have one last season trying. Presumably you've paid for the stallion anyway if it's Ramiro B and he's NFFR rather than NFNF if I recall then you've not got to pay that again and won't get a refund so you've nothing to lose there. 
I was told mares are most fertile in the spring and it is waning by this time of year so you want to maximise your chances. 
My mare finally got pregnant at 17 having had a few tries over the previous couple of years but those tries were fraught with problems and cock ups so I nearly gave up too. Gave it one last chance and kept her at home for AI and she took first time. 
She had a few probs in pregnancy but unrelated to age and foaled at home with no problems.
If I had ANY money left I'd be tempted to do it again despite her age!
Good luck whatever you decide.


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## Clodagh (13 August 2017)

I don't know where you are in the country but Groomsbridge stud at Newmarket have had excellent success getting difficult mares in foal. I cannot recommend them enough.


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## EventingMum (14 August 2017)

A quick story to give you some hope. We were using AI with a mare, first two cycles with frozen semen didn't take, the stallion was still competing but there was a very small window to try with chilled so we decided to try. Mare was ready but the semen got lost in transit and the stud couldn't find the tracking number and was eventually found and delivered more than 24 hrs later than it should have been. The vet looked at it and said the quality had decreased so much it wasn't worth putting in plus the mare had likely ovulated. However as we were out of options we said we might as well try. Lo and behold she took against all the odds so sometimes things do work out better than science would predict!


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## ladyaga (15 August 2017)

Well would you ever believe it, three mares pg on last thursday 10th Aug. No scans first. So scanned sunday, one had ovulated, one has a funny folical haemnomagic not sure right spelling, vets spelling from my diary. the other in for AI looks like we may get her done this week.
Had to ask partner to ask other male partner not to come as he is so rough when entering the mare. Also always put in sedation, which I have also been told lets the cervix relax, and they can then take in air, and any dirt etc   and as he is the only one to jab I think that was the right request.
Thank you for your kind and helpful remarks.


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## Alec Swan (15 August 2017)

Clodagh said:



			I don't know where you are in the country but Groomsbridge stud at Newmarket have had excellent success getting difficult mares in foal. I cannot recommend them enough.
		
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OP,  you wouldn't believe the £THOUSANDS which I've wasted on breeding efforts &#8212;&#8212; that is until I sent our mares to Groomsbridge.  The travelling and keep costs pale in to insignificance when success is achieved.  I could regale you with accounts of total incompetence,  with mares labelled as barren and then changing to Groomsbridge,  18 days after covering the mare is on her way home,  in foal.  It's always been my experience that the attention to individual detail provided to mares,  their foals and importantly the owner,  is exemplary.  

The reasons for a mare failing to hold can usually be laid at the door of;  poor quality semen,  a mare with known problems,  or AI technicians/vets who simply don't have the time with a great many horses to deal with daily.  Remove the failing service provided and the investigation in to the mare's problems can be explored and after that all we need to do is demand semen reports before deciding on the stallion of our choice and though success is never guaranteed,  the world is suddenly working with,  rather than against us.

Alec.


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## ladyaga (17 August 2017)

Well we started the scans for pregnancy last weekend, 14 day, and the first one is caught, but had to have a twin  dealt with, which involved another practise to come and help out, ad the vets would not undertake this, so that was ok, but I had to foot the bill £300. second mare has caught and no twins, so that's nice too, but have now found two of the mares has these hamoragic folicals, and one also had a lovely 37.1 normal folical. oh the joys of this.


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## sywell (18 August 2017)

I have always been of the opinion that mares are more relaxed at home in their herd and I always used fresh semen from Germany, my vet who we had a good working relationship scanned the mares on his way in to work n the morning and one stallion we used had active semen for 4 or 5 days. I was shocked when one well known vet said when I queried the quality of the semen said he would look into it and speak to the stallion owner. Wait a minute I paid for the semen and paid you to put it in and you say you will not tell me the motility but will speak to the stallion owner,your joking.


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## ladyaga (18 August 2017)

School master, are you in the uk by any chance in yorkshire


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## cundlegreen (19 August 2017)

ladyaga said:



			I will be as brief as I can, I have bought 6 breeding packages from the vets, for my 6 retired eventing/showjumping mares, we have two foals this year, both super sorts. it includes all scans some jabs etc. I have not gone into this lightly, and am using stallions with a fee of in excess £1200 each [Ramiro B] for two of them, of which this mare is one of them
Main vet for repro from practise has been watching this mare who missed last year due to no scans at the stud, she retained fluid, so was empty, She is not young, but a Cruising mare, so we have gone on to try this year again. Shes 17.
Main repro vet had injected her, she has taken a while to get a decent size Folical, on last Monday repro vet rang to say he was on holiday, but to order the semen to come on Tuesday, which I did, partner of practise came on monday to scan at 12-30 and said folical was not big enough, it was 30cm and to cancel order. which I did, it has still cost me the collection, but not the postage. [£156 to collect and send] He scanned the other mare too, and said not yet. He came on Wednesday, and to my disbelief and dismay the older mare had ovulated. I was a bit suspicious on monday at the scanning as the folical looked a slipper shape, but I did not say anything. Main vet know, didn't he.
This vet has been going on and on about August being the latest to AI mares. I am so so upset too. Anyway, he said on wed he needed to get semen into 2nd mare, this was on wed scan, so we had to drive down to whitchurch  280 miles round trip and collect it and we did not get back till 7pm, and he nearly was not going to come and inseminate her, telling me to put it in the fridge. But I told him the AI centre had said it must go in tonight as it would lose another 10% of quality over night. So he came, made a song and dance about getting it in the right place etc. but its in. £1200 up the u know where.
Got to try and see funny side, but how and what would you all do, the loss of the cycle, the mare turning 18 next year [would be her first foal] her breeding and she has eventing points too. the cost of the package which no doubt they will expect me to pay for,
		
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Out of interest, why did you start so late? If the offspring are going to be a shop window, then i would have thought you'd want to show them or send to the Futurity. You won'thave many options to get them out next year.


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## ladyaga (21 August 2017)

I do take your point, but we have very wet ground, and not ideal to turn out to early, and its how the 3 mares cycled in our first year breeding, the stud kept them empty for so long, etc, but we have had no choice this year other then leave them all empty, so fa three are in foal, two being ai'd tomorrow.I think the Futurity is going to run its self down from what I have heard. Also a four week old foal sold at the Brightwell sate for over 20k last friday night.


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## ladyaga (22 August 2017)

I should like to add, had I known what I do now about vets packages and the scanning routine, and how quick you can turn around a pregnancy in a straight forward breeding,[Its a shame I was not educated last year] I would of paid for packages, this would of been a great help to the stallion owners last year, and I am sure we should of had the mares home sooner.
I hope this is the clarification needed.


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## Alec Swan (22 August 2017)

ladyaga,  the trick is that we conduct a thorough 'research',  I've learned.

Alec.


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## cundlegreen (22 August 2017)

Alec Swan said:



			ladyaga,  the trick is that we conduct a thorough 'research',  I've learned.

Alec.
		
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Nice one, Alec!


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## ladyaga (23 August 2017)

I don't think that is particular helpful cundlegreen, I did what I thought was best for the mares, and no one along the way told me any pitfalls or the best way to go about it all, I did read up on forums and articles on the net. But you can't ring round all the studs to ask for information. Had I been advised by the stud last year that a package would be best, but I was not, the stud preferred to tease the mares, I was never asked if I wanted scans to check for all the nasties that can happen as I have mentioned above. or the twin thing. To be honest there should be a sight on face book where you can say what sort of treatment you received at a stud, how your mares were looked after if there were any unfortunate incidences that were not addressed.How they looked when they came home, Breeders saying what sort of grazing studs had, anything and everything to to with studs, so no more breeders fall into pitfalls as I did. It is a learning curve,.
Other wise how are incoming breeders  new to the producing of decent event-showjumping foals going to learn where to send there mare to for the mare to benefit from a top class breeding establishment.


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## Alec Swan (23 August 2017)

ladyaga said:



			&#8230;&#8230;.. . Also a four week old foal sold at the Brightwell sate for over 20k last friday night.
		
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Individual foal selling prices really aren't relevant.  I realise that they should be perhaps,  but there are SO many factors which affect an auction and the price is often of the least influence.  To explain briefly,  the foal which sells next year by a repeat mating and so in theory anyway,  all but a repeat,  could very well struggle to find a buyer at 5k.  The sale prices of top-end TBs is a different matter because as a brood mare ages and as her progeny start their careers at a relatively early age,  so their performance will be monitored by the buyers.  Sport horses tend to be a different matter.

Now then Lady-a,  these are my thoughts and are offered in a positive fashion,  which is how I hope that you'll accept them.

Late foaling is rarely a good idea,  the simple fact is that foals and lactating mares need the benefit of growing grass which you may not get in 12 months time.  Unless we're a top-end TB Stud,  replicating grass in our feeds isn't that easy.  It was old Harry Mumford (now long departed) of Teacaddy Stud who insisted that growing foals need the sun on their backs,  and he was right.  Sometimes we have no choice,  as you now,  to breed late,  I understand that but it's generally best avoided.

Sourcing our mares will generally have our plans limited by the depth of our pockets,  and sometimes when one pocket is empty we need to go elbow deep in to the next!  There's always the temptation to buy a mare because of her sire line.  The mare line is of greater importance I feel.  The Continental breeders tend to pay far greater attention to the 'lines' than we do,  I feel.  I've bred from pretty but useless mares which either can't or don't want to work for a living,  previously.  Never again,  a brood mare needs (for me anyway) to demonstrate her abilities and willingness to work.  Useless mares generally produce equally useless foals,  no matter how well they're bred.

When I first started breeding (now ceased) I went to the stallion owners rather cap-in-hand.  I also took all the repro advice on board from the owners of the stallions that I thought to use.  I had many assurances of progressive and lively semen which would have us thinking to ourselves 'Well it only takes one,  and there are millions'!  I've watched semen motility under a microscope and watched the myriad sperm spinning around in circles and that is NOT what we want.  We want semen which travels forward in a purposeful fashion.  'Motility' means nothing if it isn't forward moving.

There are many stallions and their semen simply doesn't travel well either fresh,  chilled or frozen and it's vital that we ask either the owner (though I prefer to use reputable agents) for a full report.  A few years back now,  I used a very well known but elderly TB stallion.  His owner assured me of a 90% success rate,  but when I checked with Weatherbys,  his TB returns were at 46%.  There are certainly reputable agents available to us and upon demand,  they will provide accurate and honest thaw or time reports.  Twemlows and Elite Stallions have always been most approachable on this subject with me,  as has Ken Rehill.

Having done our research on the suitability of our mare and the efficacy of the semen which we intend using,  we now need to consider the system of affecting a pregnancy,  and here's another possible or likely pitfall.  I have never had success with a visiting vet,  and that's not once.  Others have,  but not I.  By sending our mares to a suitably experienced and small enough stud where there is dedicated veterinary attention,  I've always found the success rate to be higher.  Another point about a stud farm is that most will have a stallion present.  There's no question in my mind that the presence of an entire horse is of inestimable help,  simply by his presence.  Generally silent mares will all so often make it quite plain when they're cycling but of greater influence,  I feel is that a mare is assisted in reaching a breeding state.  That's just a personal belief and there will be those who won't agree.

Packages offered by Vets?  I always view them with a deal of suspicion.  I want a vet who's confident that the mare will be sent home in 3 weeks &#8212;&#8212; ok so it doesn't always work like that but there's always the sense for me that they expect initial failure!  In the defence of those Stud Farms and Vets when a mare arrives with no real known history,  she may be pooling fluid,  she may have a deep seated uterine infection,  but at least at a competent stud,  there will be a focus.

Alec.


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## Alec Swan (23 August 2017)

ladyaga said:



			&#8230;&#8230;..
Other wise how are incoming breeders  new to the producing of decent event-showjumping foals going to learn where to send there mare to for the mare to benefit from a top class breeding establishment.
		
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By either listening to those who've made exactly the same mistakes,  or by learning by their own.  There are sadly,  no other options available to us.

Alec.


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## popsdosh (24 August 2017)

Alec Swan said:



			By either listening to those who've made exactly the same mistakes,  or by learning by their own.  There are sadly,  no other options available to us.

Alec.
		
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Sorry there is one other ,taking off our rose tinted specs.

As you have said the best advice you can get is from Elite or Twemlows they have seen it all . I am sorry OP I dont think you have done any research as if you had you would not be trying to get Barren mares in foal in August and would suggest that there are bigger issues going on with your abysmal success rates. Get yourself a top repro vet who has a reputation to maintain and stick to what they say even if its not what you want to hear. To be blunt in fertile ,fit mares you would have had more success with semen tipped darts thrown at random.
 I am sorry if you are real you are going about it totally the wrong way ,but I have my doubts as you randomly keep coming up with the same issues and dont learn from them. Please dont be offended by my comments im just trying to save you a lot of wasted money.
Just a little note from the wise dont take to much notice of auction prices at performance sales they are full of loads of scammers and unsold horses who look like they are , the 20k foal is most likely out grazing where it came from or subject of cloak and dagger ringing. Why do you think on paper welsh ponies make ridiculous auction prices ,its all to do with the mugs who come in from outside the ring and suspect the auction is a true representation of value LOL ,Alec will understand that one as sheep breeders are worse.


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## ladyaga (24 August 2017)

I loved that Posh dosh, I have spent the time on the forum being polite, having bred sheep and pedigree Charolais, shown them and won the devon county show winning £2500 beating 670 cattle in 1987, I know exactly where you are coming from. My repro vet came back from hol yest, and they still sent the new be, who scanned and took photos on her mobile phone. I am totally at a loss with the vets. Sadly I also paid them up front for several packages, I thought it was the right thing to do, even though I am not a bad payer, anything but. But if you saw, again this week we have had to go to collect semen as the vet chose not to come until 12-30 so to late to order. putting not just us out, but the stallion collection places too. If you read above it was not my fault with the barren mare, last thing repro vet did on day of his hol was to call me to order semen from Ramario B which I did, senior partner came in to scan at 12 and told me to cancel which I did, and still had to pay. quite rightly so. scanned her wed when semen would have been in, and you guessed it, she had ovulated. So there you go. it is a list of mistakes from when repro vet went on hol. I am stuck in the middle of a complete mess. Many mistakes, and running out of options. Not through anything I have done,, just that the main man goes away, and the rest not really interested,apart from the newbe who is very very interested, bless her. In my opinion he should of passed us on to a repro practise, who I now know about, and did help out with the twinning.


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## minmax (24 August 2017)

I think.... if you are the main repro vet at a practice, maybe have your holidays before & after the breeding season? 
Tbh, Our practice has 2 very good repro vets, so always one available with general equine vet also good at washing out etc. Lucky to have a decent local practice with plenty of vets.
I think next year, send them away... you will save money & time & hopefully have some foals on the ground in 2019


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## Irish gal (24 August 2017)

Lady Gaga commiserations on a terrible breeding experience. From what I can see your main problem is that you've made the rookie error of going with a run of the mill vet practice. This is a very specialised job needing really dedicated vets - or you don't stand a chance.

We have a big breeding industry here in Ireland. People are using some of the top jumping stallions in the world by frozen and chilled semen with big prices. Those that do it successfully will only use one of about three vet practices in the whole country. So what they do is get the normal vet to scan mare and when she's a day or so out from ovulation put her in the box and take her across the country to a renowned repro vet who will scan every couple of hours and in the middle of the night to catch her at the right moment. You need a totally dedicated vet like that. Your guys sound abysmal and you'll never get a result with people like that. 

Over here those with experience wouldn't even entertain the local vet. You need to do some research online and find the best repro vets or stud in the U.K. And use that. In the long run it will be a whole lot cheaper. Alec has said something similar and he's right. How could you get a result with a vet who can't be bothered to come out at an inconvenient time - mares don't ovulate just in working hours!

I'm afraid your vets, like many are laughing all the way to the bank. And the longer it takes the more of your money they'll have. Breeding can be a very, very expensive exercise as you are learning.


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## Alec Swan (24 August 2017)

ladyaga said:



			&#8230;&#8230;.. . Many mistakes, and running out of options. &#8230;&#8230;.. just that the main man goes away, &#8230;&#8230;.. In my opinion he should of passed us on to a repro practise, who I now know about, and did help out with the twinning.
		
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That you've used a veterinary practice where they've called in another vet to separate twins,  should have alarm bells going off.  Dealing with twins in embryo is the bread and butter work which repro-vets do.  Did the practice concerned explain to you that they didn't really know whether they'd be able to supply you with a competent service,  or as it transpires,  not?

Now then,  one aspect which hasn't yet been covered;  Semen supplies.  What type of agreement do you have established with the vendor or their agent?  Whether any research has been done,  I'm not sure,  but it wouldn't surprise me to learn that 30% of all NFFR are eventually abandoned.  This isn't always the fault of the supplier because when we use incompetent vets or technicians,  or mares which are truly barren,  the stallion owners/agents need to protect themselves.  Towards the end of our breeding programme I always insisted upon full payment being made by Oct. 1st. and upon a pregnancy being achieved or should I pay for semen in advance,  that upon failure then 75% of the money paid would be returned.  The one offer that I did make was that the mares concerned would be at a recognised stud which was known to my supplier.  I was never turned down.

Considering the very expensive stallions which you've been using,  in what state was the semen when it was despatched to you?  Was it chilled or frozen?  When your mares were inseminated,  did the attending vet/technician place the residue semen under a microscope to check on its motility and so its quality?  I'm guessing that I already know the answer to that one.

Finally,  all the comments made so far have been offered in an attempt to help you.  If you could let us know where you are in the country,  geographically (PM if you'd prefer),  then for next year it would be a relatively simple matter to head you towards a more realistic chance of success.  You're learning it seems,  that promises and assurances are worth nothing until they're delivered!

Alec.


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## Alec Swan (24 August 2017)

popsdosh said:



			&#8230;&#8230;.. . Why do you think on paper welsh ponies make ridiculous auction prices ,its all to do with the mugs who come in from outside the ring and suspect the auction is a true representation of value LOL ,Alec will understand that one as sheep breeders are worse.
		
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From memory,  the world record price for a Texel ram is about £168k.  Were the buyer and seller to get together before the sale and agree that the seller will return to the buyer,  half the purchase cost,  after purchase,  then this has a dual effect;  Firstly the seller has his stock (imaginatively) increase in value and Secondly that the buyer will have the subsequent straws of semen from his purchase and which he will sell,  double in cost (if not value).  It must be understood that I've only offered a hypothetical scenario and I'm not for one moment saying that in the case of this particular sheep,  it's what happened.

As much in life,  we're better off if we believe half of what we see and nothing that we hear!  OP,  my apologies for the sidetrack! 

Alec.


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## cundlegreen (24 August 2017)

Alec Swan said:



			From memory,  the world record price for a Texel ram is about £168k.  Were the buyer and seller to get together before the sale and agree that the seller will return to the buyer,  half the purchase cost,  after purchase,  then this has a dual effect;  Firstly the seller has his stock (imaginatively) increase in value and Secondly that the buyer will have the subsequent straws of semen from his purchase and which he will sell,  double in cost (if not value).  It must be understood that I've only offered a hypothetical scenario and I'm not for one moment saying that in the case of this particular sheep,  it's what happened.

As much in life,  we're better off if we believe half of what we see and nothing that we hear!  OP,  my apologies for the sidetrack! 

Alec.
		
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Alec, in Ireland, it's called luck money, and can run into million with the top TB sales. As with the welsh sales, take all results with a big pinch of salt....
Like you, I am rather questioning this poster. I like my foals on the ground by the beginning of May at the latest. All planning therefore, should really be taking place at the end of the preceding year, with a Plan B, in case of a stallion suddenly becoming unavailable. Also, it's not uncommon for fertility to take a drop later on in the season, due to high demand earlier. This is very much the case with a top TB stallion at the Irish National Stud, as I discovered in a very interesting chat with the Head Stallion man there.


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## ladyaga (24 August 2017)

This poster ME is very grateful for the sensible comments received, and will be acting on them, I hasten to add that semen was put in a mare last week costing £4K from Germany, at a yard, so was pleased I was not alone breeding this time of year. I am not blessed with lovely dry fields in may CG which is why i am not worried about later foals, Alex, I am in Yorkshire, and have been talking to a very good repro vet, who kindly stepped in to sort the twins thing out and AI another mare, who we had to have the Currier fetch semen to after finding out it was needed urgently. He loved our facilities, and the new stocks coming in 10 days, and has nothing in this part of the country where mares can be bought into be bred. I have done away with diy's and gone down this breeding line for my own interest and sanity, we have another business too. but this is for pure pleasure for me. I love getting the mares in and watching the scans, am learning very fast, indeed. I have welcomed all the help advise and support this group have given me, and am not going to throw the towel in yet.


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## popsdosh (25 August 2017)

There are plenty of very good repro vets in the yorkshire area with very good facilities. I think at best you are setting yourself up for a huge disappointment a lot of foal vendors at Brightwells had your dreams and belief only to be shattered in one sale. You will a best slow down your losses ,you should have stuck with DIYs as they would have been less stressful as you are finding out. I cannot believe that anybody in Yorkshire would waste money like you on starting up a breeding yard its not in their DNA. Let alone be messed about like you have.  I suspect this year your land in Yorkshire was a hell of a lot drier in May than it is now.
Just a little advice dont pay for breeding packages up front as you dont need to and have never come across a vet who insists on it. The guy I use would be a very close journey for you and when he first inseminates the mare suggest whether that mare needs to be on a package or not. He has a 80% success rate of mares in foal to first service and the stud he practices from stopped covering mares over a month ago as they were all in foal .


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## ladyaga (25 August 2017)

Alex, I did not know the repro vet of the practise was going on holiday, until he was off.


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## Alec Swan (25 August 2017)

ladyaga said:



			Alex, I did not know the repro vet of the practise was going on holiday, until he was off.
		
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3(?) years ago we had a planned ET from a 4* mare.  The veterinary practise which dealt with the donor mare's owner's horses assured us of their levels of competence and importantly,  their level of experience.  We had a head-shed meeting with the senior partner and agreed a plan for which he would be responsible,  that he would deal with,  and this was in April.  The 3 recipient mares were kept where the donor mare was stabled,  and then I awaited news.  The four mares were scanned,  and then I waited,  and waited.

With no progress reports I 'phoned the head-honcho and asked my newly acquired chum if he was going to PG the mares in an effort to synchronise them.  "Oh no" came the reply "we'll wait for them to get in step together".  By now it was the end of May,  the donor mare was due at Burghley and I pointed out that I had no intention of continuing to use the practise and that they could shove their bills to date,  up their arses.  Strangely,  I didn't hear one word of argument.  Subsequently,  another repro-vet who I know well had previously worked with the character concerned and described him as bone-idle.

The costs involved were considerable;  I'd been kindly offered the use of 3 recipients,  one refused to have anyone near her back-end,  they'd all been transported to the donor mare,  I'd paid for their keep and they all had to be sent back.  

As you lady a,  I trusted a professional,  but the mistake was that I didn't check that the practice in question also had a 200 mare Stud Farm on their books and offered assurities which they had no intention of honouring.  We all make mistakes,  and we learn from them.

Alec.


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