# Total contact saddle



## saskiahorsey (23 May 2015)

Ok so having spent a fortune on saddles and saddle fitters and still having no saddle or a sore horse.... Having gone down the treeless route and spent a small fortune on the high end treeless im tempted to try one of these....now when iv searched my many saddles ( treed) iv found 50/50 posts... When i have searched treeless iv had 50/50 posts... Nearly every good reccommendation has been followed by a bad experience.... Yet iv searched these and found those who have not tried are dubious but those who have tried are pleased and i cannot find a single post stating that it gave pressure points caused a back prob etc etc.... Now im not totally convinced as have spent nearly 2000 on a solution saddle to still have a few probs etc .... I guess what im trying to say is is it poss a 200 quid piece of leather could be my answer and has anyone used one and had a bad experience...i dont mean as a rider but a detremental effect on your horse ??? Or can someone point me to one post that shows pressure issues etc .... Im not expecting miracles but im at last resort and need to ride her but im not confident without stirrups ! Thanks


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## dollyanna (23 May 2015)

I have one (not used much as for my youngsters who aren't riding yet), and like you did a HUGE amount of research over several years trying to find negatives from people who had actually had one and used it, not just those who looked and judged without trying. I think the UK distributor states that he has only had 1 returned over the years, and they are rare to find secondhand and those that I have found secondhand are often because the rider wanted a different colour! I'm sure you have seen the photos on the fb page but there are some interesting before and after pictures that are certainly thought-provoking. 
So far I love mine. I tested it on 2 strange ponies I had never ridden, one small 13.2hh skinny welshy and one 15hhwelsh cob. Both had a bronc, the small one put her head down and tried to bolt, on neither of them did I feel unsafe but I have ridden the small one once before years ago and didn't feel secure in the saddle, I felt perched. With the TC I felt really safe, comfortable, surprisingly secure, and the only problem I had was with my lower leg which wasn't used to riding and therefore weak after a break of several years. Owners of both animals were impressed at how comfortable and free they looked, and expressed interest in trying it themselves. And best of all despite a 1.5hr hack after no riding for at least 5 yrs I had absolutely no saddle soreness or aching whatsoever! I know you are asking from the point of view of the horse, but it has really impressed me.
I think it is important to get the padding right though, which varies for each horse - they recommend gel pads, but my favourite so far was a good quality western pad and the horse certainly felt very happy in it.
I'd be really interested to hear how you get on if you do try one - and can recommend talking to the distributor, he is excellent at asking questions and does think about the answers instead of just giving you the publicity spiel.


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## Spotsrock (23 May 2015)

2 of my friends have them and swear by them.


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## Spotsrock (23 May 2015)

Search total contact saddle on here and you'll find an old post with pics of pingpongpony jumping well over a meter in hers


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## saskiahorsey (23 May 2015)

Thank you so much for your reply.... Yes that is very helpful.... These saddles seem to have been around for a few years .. I was worried like some by the pressure aspect but having searched and searched threads i still cant find one actual user who has had a pressure problem .... I guess il just order one and see for myself ... I have a very tricky mare my main concern was if i would feel secure as she can be very sharp....but im at the end of my tether and cannot afford to spend anymore huge amounts on saddles that i buy then make a loss on...iv spent far more on saddles than i have on her lol


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## saskiahorsey (23 May 2015)

Spotsrock said:



			Search total contact saddle on here and you'll find an old post with pics of pingpongpony jumping well over a meter in hers
		
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I have seen all the threads on here with regards to this saddle lol...hence looking for more recent feedback that was maybe negative .... Im impressed there isnt any &#55357;&#56835;


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## Spotsrock (23 May 2015)

We went same rounds when PPP got hers and couldn't find any either 

Enjoy your new saddle when it arrives!


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## saskiahorsey (24 May 2015)

Well iv bit the bullet and ordered one... Im guessing for the money if it doesnt work it wont break the bank.... But im hoping i have the same success as others .... I will def post a feedback once iv tried it...thanks for the info &#55357;&#56842;


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## Meowy Catkin (24 May 2015)

I'd be very interested to read your review. I hope it works out or you. 

If you have time, it would also be informative to know what other saddles you tried and the positives/negatives of them.


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## dollyanna (24 May 2015)

You do need to rely on your seat and balance more I think, because you don't have the support of knee rolls, deep seats etc but most people with sharp ponies find that a lot of the sharpness reduces with the TC because they are aware of tension much much earlier and therefore can change or deal with it because it becomes a real "spook" or reaction. I did find it strange, it was as if I had become psychic, knowing there was a buck or spook coming without really knowing why, much sooner than a normal saddle!


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## kez81 (24 May 2015)

I have tried a ridiculous amount of treed and treeless saddles over the years and in the end the only ones I have kept are my Heather Moffett, Dartmoor tree free, Lamfelle bareback saddle and Total Contact. It does take a bit of time to get used to riding in it as it doesn't give you the same security of seat that a traditional saddle does. That being said once you find your balance its great as you can feel every little change in movement.  I have sat some pretty exuberant bucks without feeling like I was going to fly out side door. I have never had any issues with pressure ( i also use a thick western pad under it) but I don't ride in it all the time, mostly just for jumping practice or when riding the kids wizzy pony. I have mine in a lovely cognac red which looks really smart and it is good quality leather.


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## Beausmate (24 May 2015)

I had a small problem with mine on my little tb.  As he has aged, his spine has become more prominent and he did get a bit grumpy.  Two gel pads and a Premier Equine correction pad on top has solved the problem as he's as perky as ever now.
I backed the cob in it and have sat through a few 'bucky bucky wheee!' moments with no trouble at all.  You do feel it on a wide beasty though, as there is no twist to stop you having to stretch.  Cob has one gel pad and a Prolite wither pad under the TC.  It's nice English leather and really well made too.  One thing I will say, is get some buckle guards (Shires do a two-slot guard), as they don't (didn't?) come with them.

I think it could well be the only saddle in the world that can fit through a standard letterbox!


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## saskiahorsey (24 May 2015)

Thanks for the info on padding etc.... I have a gel pad and was thinking of a thick numnah and half pad ... Quite excited for it to arrive now


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## Beausmate (25 May 2015)

One other thing that I wasn't prepared for, was the fact my stirrup leathers would be far too long, due to the lower bar positioning on the TC.  I also had to get a shorter girth.


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## PonyIAmNotFood (25 May 2015)

Any issues with pressure anyone? And how laterally stable are they? (Horse spooks 4ft to the side then runs!)


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## saskiahorsey (25 May 2015)

Beausmate said:



			One other thing that I wasn't prepared for, was the fact my stirrup leathers would be far too long, due to the lower bar positioning on the TC.  I also had to get a shorter girth.
		
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Yes i did read you would need shorter stirrups longer girth iv ordered the one with short straps so il def need a new girth .... Rode bareback yesterday and have to say shes quite comfy to ride but i do miss the security of my stirrups so im hoping this works .... Does anyone ride longer hacks in theirs ? As this would be used as main saddle thanks


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## saskiahorsey (26 May 2015)

Does anyone use a gel half pad or do you think the sticky would be a hindrance rather than a help ? I was thinking a gel pad numnah and then a shires half pad but they do a gel one .., do you think the gel would be too much against bum... Was hoping it might help me feel a bit less slippery and secure etc thanks


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## dollyanna (26 May 2015)

Best place to ask that would be on the fb page - he will flag it up and get some answers from current users I am sure!


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## exmoorponyprincess1 (26 May 2015)

dollyanna said:



			I think the UK distributor states that he has only had 1 returned over the years
		
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...that'll be me then! I tried it and just couldn't get on with it at all - I found it really threw my legs into an awkward position on my Exie and despite trying my hardest to keep them back and on, I admitted defeat! 
I ride now in a Zoe Snape Shetland showing pad (with longer flaps to suit the Exie body) and for almost 2 years since swapping my saddle for the pad, I haven't had a single back issue with my pony - previously I needed a lot of work done to her due to saddles causing her a lot of discomfort despite being professionally fitted by people specialising in fitting ponies like mine with saddles. 
I have done everything in the pad - county level showing, dressage, jumping, fun rides, hacking, wild pony gatherings across the moors of Exmoor...I occasionally find myself dreaming of knee rolls but then I remember how fantastically my little mare is going and those thoughts quickly leave my mind! 
I use a mattes sheepskin half pad directly under the showing pad with a poly pad underneath that and have no pressure points at all - clean bill of health every time from my back lady!


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## MagicMelon (26 May 2015)

I saw these, surely you're not allowed to compete in them though (what ARE the rules regarding saddles)?  I know some people claim to jump in them but I've always been led to believe jumping in a treeless saddle was bad because you needed the gullet of a "traditional" saddle over the spine, whereas these "saddles" are directly on the spine?  When I saw a photo of one I actually thought it was just a fun way of sort of going bareback, I didn't think it was meant for riding properly or regularly in.


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## saskiahorsey (27 May 2015)

Its nice to know it wasnt a pressure issue and it was a riding one exmoor ...i have asked on his fb page but not sure hes updating it often etc.

Magic melon i think BS are ok not sure about BE but tbh i just need to be able to ride my mare so competeing affiliated is a long way off .... I think everyone who sees these saddle says the same as you about pressure but i am still yet to find one single person who has used one and had pressure issues etc ... Im hoping its not me &#55357;&#56847;


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## [59668] (27 May 2015)

saskiahorsey said:



			Its nice to know it wasnt a pressure issue and it was a riding one exmoor ...i have asked on his fb page but not sure hes updating it often etc.

Magic melon i think BS are ok not sure about BE but tbh i just need to be able to ride my mare so competeing affiliated is a long way off .... I think everyone who sees these saddle says the same as you about pressure but i am still yet to find one single person who has used one and had pressure issues etc ... Im hoping its not me &#65533;&#65533;
		
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I tried one and liked it, but not BE legal.


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## MagicMelon (27 May 2015)

[59668] said:



			I tried one and liked it, but not BE legal.
		
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I'm not a BE member just now, what are the rules regarding this?  Do they say that saddles must be "traditional" type or something?  I just wonder how they actually rule out new things like this when I guess the only thing missing as such is a moulded seat to sit in!

OP, thing is I think I'd worry that the vast majority who have used these "saddles" haven't done so for much actual schooling or jumping etc. - wouldn't they be more used for hacking?  In which case, maybe pressure points wouldn't be so obvious as when jumping or whatever.


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## Beausmate (27 May 2015)

I believe they were originally designed by an Italian showjumper.


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## Wagtail (27 May 2015)

I just cannot see how they don't cause pressure points. The weight of the rider through the stirrups is pressed directly onto the spinal ligaments. It's not something I would choose.


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## Beausmate (27 May 2015)

Not the designer in the vid, but a pro that uses it.  Have a look near the end of the vid. 
www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgAbkpeNrUk#t=295


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## Meowy Catkin (27 May 2015)

Wagtail said:



			I just cannot see how they don't cause pressure points. The weight of the rider through the stirrups is pressed directly onto the spinal ligaments. It's not something I would choose.
		
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But they don't have panels and a gullet, so you don't have the edge of the panel over the ligaments like you would with a badly fitted treed saddle. I would have thought that you would get more pressure on the area above the actual spine, rather than either side of it. The big question (if my theory is correct) is whether or not that is a problem/uncomfortable for the horse. I don't know the answer as I've never used a TC.

This is interesting reading though. http://www.total-contact.co.uk/index.php/total-contact-horse-riding-saddle-and-pressure/


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## PingPongPony (27 May 2015)

They're BS legal, not BE (because need tradtional english tack for dressage) and not BD legal (same thing again) 
I used one as my only saddle for 2 years, competed at about 1.10m SJ, jumped up to 1.40m at home, been XC etc, no problems at all, and no pressure points, physio who has known horse for years has said she'd never seen this horses back be so straight and relaxed, horse was also a lot more relaxed to ride, quite a spooky mare usually, but in this, the spookiness reduced by at least 50%, and any spooks there were coming up, you could feel and correct before they escalated. I love love love this saddle, cannot recommend it enough! 
It improves your feel and your seat, and your balance, you learn to stop relying on the saddle to hold you in place, but to actually ride and hold yourself on the horse!
Regarding, shires gel half pad to sit on, go for it OP, it is fabulous, that's what I had on my mare and OMG heaven for your bum 
I'm happy to answer any questions you may have if you want to know more, just PM me


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## Wagtail (27 May 2015)

Oh definitely, badly fitting treed saddles without adequate gullet widths are going to cause soreness, and perhaps more so than the total contact due to the sideways pressure. And sadly, I think those horses that actually 'complain' about saddle fit are the very small tip of the iceberg. I wish they could talk. Sometimes I think we are just fumbling about in the dark.


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## cobgoblin (27 May 2015)

Z



Faracat said:



			But they don't have panels and a gullet, so you don't have the edge of the panel over the ligaments like you would with a badly fitted treed saddle. I would have thought that you would get more pressure on the area above the actual spine, rather than either side of it. The big question (if my theory is correct) is whether or not that is a problem/uncomfortable for the horse. I don't know the answer as I've never used a TC.

This is interesting reading though. http://www.total-contact.co.uk/index.php/total-contact-horse-riding-saddle-and-pressure/

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I read through that , but even TSC admit that the pliance doesn't cover the area over the spine where the pressure from the stirrups must surely occur. I also looked for a pic of the underside of the saddle to see if there was any padding to relieve pressure in that area but I couldn't find one. Can anyone explain what the underside of the saddle looks like? Is all the weight taken on mini panels either side?


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## Meowy Catkin (27 May 2015)

Yes, the fact that pliance doesn't take readings over the spine was something that I picked up on too.


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## Beausmate (27 May 2015)

Just loading a couple of pics....


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## Beausmate (27 May 2015)

I've lifted the stirrup bars, so that they are more visible.







and..


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## cobgoblin (27 May 2015)

Really not much more than a strap with a bit of padding is it? I'm amazed it doesn't cause problems.
Can you do rising trot or do you essentially ride bareback style with the stirrups just being somewhere to keep your feet?


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## Meowy Catkin (27 May 2015)

That's really helpful BM, thanks. 

I had been thinking about this and I did think that if the pressure over the spine was a big issue, you'd surely get ulceration of the skin or wounds like you see with, for example, the PFK horses in Egypt. I'm certainly open minded to the idea that a treeless saddle doesn't have to have the same configuration as a treed saddle, but I'd still love to see a pressure test taken over the whole area of contact.


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## saskiahorsey (27 May 2015)

PingPongPony said:



			They're BS legal, not BE (because need tradtional english tack for dressage) and not BD legal (same thing again) 
I used one as my only saddle for 2 years, competed at about 1.10m SJ, jumped up to 1.40m at home, been XC etc, no problems at all, and no pressure points, physio who has known horse for years has said she'd never seen this horses back be so straight and relaxed, horse was also a lot more relaxed to ride, quite a spooky mare usually, but in this, the spookiness reduced by at least 50%, and any spooks there were coming up, you could feel and correct before they escalated. I love love love this saddle, cannot recommend it enough! 
It improves your feel and your seat, and your balance, you learn to stop relying on the saddle to hold you in place, but to actually ride and hold yourself on the horse!
Regarding, shires gel half pad to sit on, go for it OP, it is fabulous, that's what I had on my mare and OMG heaven for your bum 
I'm happy to answer any questions you may have if you want to know more, just PM me 

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Thanks for the info....yes i have seen your pictures and read a few of your posts regarding the saddle... i just think it is remarkable how i cant find a horse with marks pressure spots bad back etc....i looked at these a few years back and was not convinced by them...but having struggled and struggled and still no saddle treed or treeless i started looking into them again....it is pretty obvious that from the updates etc people who are using them are very happy and most are seeing positive results in their riding but most important no one seems to have had a horse have a sore back etc.... i think they have been around for more than 5 years now so i guess youd think there would be one post about a horse with pressure  issues !! 

Anyway i cant wait to try it ... it should be with me next week


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## Beausmate (3 June 2015)

Just thought I'd post this pic, in case anyone was interested.  Started with a clean pad, rode for about 45 mins. and this is how it looks after.


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## Beausmate (3 June 2015)

Double post.


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## Casey76 (4 June 2015)

I've looked at these time and time again, and I'm just not convinced that the pressure distribution is large enough to not cause some discomfort.

In the photos posted there seems to be at least 4 areas of increased pressure - where the webbing for the billets is stiched in (a ridge of leather), and obviously when weight is put into the stirrups.

Depending on both horse and rider conformation, either or both parties may find riding/being ridden "bareback" uncomfortable (boney bottoms/ lack of topline etc)

With properly fitted "traditional" saddles the panels are fitted so that they clear the spinal processes, but are also not so wide apart that they weight bear solely on the ligament attacments to the spinal processes.

Having said that - it's horses for courses  I need something with a lot of security due to my balance and proprioception issues


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## Beausmate (4 June 2015)

Just thought I'd post this pic, in case anyone was interested.  Started with a clean pad, rode for about 45 mins. and this is how it looks after.







Try again!


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## *hic* (4 June 2015)

Casey76 said:



			I've looked at these time and time again, and I'm just not convinced that the pressure distribution is large enough to not cause some discomfort.

In the photos posted there seems to be at least 4 areas of increased pressure - where the webbing for the billets is stiched in (a ridge of leather), and obviously when weight is put into the stirrups.

Depending on both horse and rider conformation, either or both parties may find riding/being ridden "bareback" uncomfortable (boney bottoms/ lack of topline etc)

With properly fitted "traditional" saddles the panels are fitted so that they clear the spinal processes, but are also not so wide apart that they weight bear solely on the ligament attacments to the spinal processes.

Having said that - it's horses for courses  I need something with a lot of security due to my balance and proprioception issues 

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Remember that less of the weight of the rider is going through any part of the saddle - the bearing surface is that under the rider's arse and especially thighs.

You might find that your balance and proprioception issues would be helped by a total contact saddle. With one it becomes very obvious when you are off balance, even repositioning the head of the rider has an immediate and noticeable effect. Being off balance in a normal saddle means that you are twisting the saddle on the horse - the same forces as when mounting from the ground except that instead of it being for a short while it's all the time.


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## Casey76 (4 June 2015)

jemima*askin said:



			Remember that less of the weight of the rider is going through any part of the saddle - the bearing surface is that under the rider's arse and especially thighs.

You might find that your balance and proprioception issues would be helped by a total contact saddle. With one it becomes very obvious when you are off balance, even repositioning the head of the rider has an immediate and noticeable effect. Being off balance in a normal saddle means that you are twisting the saddle on the horse - the same forces as when mounting from the ground except that instead of it being for a short while it's all the time.
		
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My balance and proprioception issues arise from a brain injury I received when I was 16, and are slowly getting worse as I get older.  I have a tendency to list to one side even though my brain tells me I'm staying straight which can make me feel very unsafe if I don't have certain visual and physical cues. Any of the "normal" balance improving exercises (lunging with eyes shut, no reins etc) are completely counter intuitive with me.  If I sit with my eyes closed on a horse (or even on a chair tbh) I will list until I fall off, even though I think I'm sitting straight.  It is extremely annoying and confidence destroying.


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## *hic* (4 June 2015)

Doubtless your physios would have their opinion, but as you tilt off the vertical at all a bareback horse will turn, giving you a very clear idea that whatever your brain says is straight and upright is not appearing so to the horse and giving you an indication that you need to alter your posture. Whether these big signals would help with your particular issues I don't know. I just looked to see whether you were near me in case you wanted to try one of my horses with a total contact saddle. My big mare is very responsive but kind and gentle, however, different countries. 

You have my sympathies with acquired balance issues, my husband's brain injury has also affected his balance and especially his ability to recover it quickly. Being around horses I am always worried that one of them will knock him and he will fall, but they almost seem to understand that he needs the space. When he was re-learning to walk I used to get him to "lead" my Section D and the pony would walk down to his (slow) speed and allow him to keep a hand on his withers to maintain a straight line and balance. Wonderful things horses.


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## ester (4 June 2015)

are the stirrup bars attached to eachother with webbing?


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## dollyanna (4 June 2015)

Casey76 said:



			I need something with a lot of security due to my balance and proprioception issues 

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Maybe it wouldn't work for you - you'd never know without trying - but more and more RDA and riders with disabilities are using the saddles because of the extra contact with the pony and the freedom to adapt to each rider. Certainly one of the ponies I have ridden with mine was far more secure with the TCS than her normal saddle - usually I feel very perched and insecure, as if there is no real contact or feel through the saddle.


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## Beausmate (4 June 2015)

ester said:



			are the stirrup bars attached to eachother with webbing?
		
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Nope.  Stitched and riveted to the flap.


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## saskiahorsey (4 June 2015)

Well a little update ... Saddle arrived yesterday i was impressed with the quality lovely leather and well made ... Rode mare in arena to get used to it she went very well ... I used a thick sheepskin numnah a gel pad and a half pad for my bum... Took about 10 mins to get the hang of it but must say felt very very secure...my mare is quite sharp and spun a couple of times at horses in the field but i felt safe ... Anyway rode again today as i knew physio was coming to assess my other horse and wanted to ride a bit longer in and have him check her .... Well i even dared leave the arena lol..the only problem i did have was the buckles from stirrups heart my thighs so i need a very very short set of tbar ones ( anyone any ideas) 

So physio checked mare not one sore area on her back at all...she was tight in her hamstrings ongoing issue but her back was great ... Early days but so far im pleased with it


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## Meowy Catkin (4 June 2015)

How about these?  http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wintec-We...t=LH_DefaultDomain_3&var=&hash=item2339713c88


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## saskiahorsey (4 June 2015)

Faracat said:



			How about these?  http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wintec-We...t=LH_DefaultDomain_3&var=&hash=item2339713c88

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Thanks faracat they look perfect &#55357;&#56832;


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## Regandal (4 June 2015)

I'm going to have to try one.  My warmblood has a massive wither, and almost a 'step' down to his back.  His wither is roughly 8" above where you should sit.  Throw in a huge shoulder and conventional saddles go out the window.  This sounds promising!


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## toothfairy87 (10 June 2015)

Regandal said:



			I'm going to have to try one.  My warmblood has a massive wither, and almost a 'step' down to his back.  His wither is roughly 8" above where you should sit.  Throw in a huge shoulder and conventional saddles go out the window.  This sounds promising!
		
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I have one for sale if anyones interested


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## kez81 (10 June 2015)

toothfairy87 said:



			I have one for sale if anyones interested 

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I might be interested in having another to add my collection lol, pmd you


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## lara b (18 February 2016)

toothfairy87 said:



			I have one for sale if anyones interested 

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Don't suppose you still have this for sale?!


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## Artax (10 October 2016)

Having tried one recently and looking for more opinions, I can only add that my experience was largely positive.

The pressure points worried me, however, you really learn to sit differently in the TC. I am/was a rider that applied pressure mostly n the stirrups as it turned out and if I continued in the TC, I think there could be pressure points. I have learned to sit more with a "wrapping" of my seat and thighs and with hardly any pressure in the stirrup at all (for fear of the pp) and have become a lot more stable and still in my riding. 

Horse definitely more forward in this and way more relaxed - I was pleasantly surprised. I hope they don't ask for it back any time soon as I will have to buy one!


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## foxy1 (10 October 2016)

My friend had one to try and both her and her trainer rode in it. Main issue she had is that you sit so far behind the stirrup bar, it puts you in a 'chair seat' position and so it's more difficult in rising trot particularly to hold yourself when sitting. Horse is sensitive admittedly but visibly dipped her back away from the rider when in the sit phase of rising trot. This happened both when owner and trainer rode the horse. The saddle was returned.


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## Artax (10 October 2016)

Certainly foxy1 this was my experience to begin with. It's my fault though as I rode in a chair seat and mainly used my stirrups for balance - which is actually a very ineffective way to ride I discovered. I had been taught this way for many years though by many trainers so it's not my fault. What can I say?

How long had they been riding in it? I only ask because after a few weeks I found my seat changed a lot. For me particularly, I felt its better. Don't know for anyone else. Its good for showing your true riding .


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## MrsNorris (11 October 2016)

foxy1 said:



			My friend had one to try and both her and her trainer rode in it. Main issue she had is that you sit so far behind the stirrup bar, it puts you in a 'chair seat' position and so it's more difficult in rising trot particularly to hold yourself when sitting. Horse is sensitive admittedly but visibly dipped her back away from the rider when in the sit phase of rising trot. This happened both when owner and trainer rode the horse. The saddle was returned.
		
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This is my concern about them too, I currently ride in a HM flexEE dressage which has stirrup bars far back and I really love the classical position that it promotes, but my horse has some hind end issues which make working over his back harder so am tempted to try one of these. 
Can you place them further back so that the stirrup bars are in a better place? I've never seen one in real life, so have no idea how or where they would have to sit if you placed them so the stirrup bars allowed a classical seat.


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## dollyanna (11 October 2016)

I have no problems keeping a good leg position other than my own physical difficulties. If anything I find it easier to keep a good seat, and over time have been able to lengthen the stirrups to match. If you place it far forward then yes, the stirrup bars will be forward, but if you place it further back behind the withers it sits well I find. 
As for pressure, I have been using it for my youngster and there have been absolutely no pressure marks whatsoever, after any ride. No heat, no tenderness, no marks, nothing. Also have had the advantage of feeling exactly when her back tired in her first few rides so was able to jump off if we still had a way to get home, or judge the distances she was comfortable doing without risking working her through a fatigued back, which has meant all her rides finish well. 
You do need a good seat ie good balance, but if you have that there is no reason for a horse backing away from it unless there is a physical problem or the rider's balance isn't good enough to control their downwards movement. They do look as if they shouldn't work, and they should cause pressure, and they should slip, but I have used mine on several horses now and felt completely safe, all horses went very well in it, and never had any pressure marks. When I ride I can feel where my weight is being distributed and it is certainly not over the spine - most of it goes down around the ribcage via my thighs.


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## Artax (15 December 2016)

foxy1 said:



			My friend had one to try and both her and her trainer rode in it. Main issue she had is that you sit so far behind the stirrup bar, it puts you in a 'chair seat' position and so it's more difficult in rising trot particularly to hold yourself when sitting. Horse is sensitive admittedly but visibly dipped her back away from the rider when in the sit phase of rising trot. This happened both when owner and trainer rode the horse. The saddle was returned.
		
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Unfortunately, this saddle will show ALL your faults as a rider. You cannot have a lazy body in it... you core, hips and back will reveal every weakness. Make sure you position the saddle as described in the guidelines. It makes a huge difference. 

I had been hiding behind knee rolls and a deep seated saddle to make my life easy. Take those away and all was exposed. I was as weak as weak could be. I did get a bit upset to be quite honest... rejecting the saddle and making my own excuses up! Gawd, you shoulda heard them lol! 

Anyway, weirdly it all coincided with a hernia diagnosis. I'd been pretty stressed anyway. You can imagine.. anyway, so... I faced my demons! Took a lot of courage, even though I can seem steely, I'm not at all. I took up bodywork, started running, lost weight, felt amazing and carried on with the saddle. 

I am at the point where I do not know if I can go back to a normal saddle... eeeek!!


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## chattyday84 (3 January 2017)

I have a welsh sec c in this saddle and after doing exactly what you have, and spending fortunes on treed saddles and saddle fitters! Resulting in a very sore problem bucker, i have been using this for a year now and she is perfect and so am I! We jump hunt hack xc sponsored rides everything in only this saddle with a square and a half pad! Feel free to find me on fb and view my images of said saddle and pony, i have also had physio back lady and saddler back out who have found no fault in her or saddle at all! This little horse is the happiest on my yard competes regularly, now 30% of my yard own one of these saddles and have had the same result from there horses one being a 17hh ID who is terrified of standard saddles due to pain relation memories so we have been led to believe, if theyou caused any pain or problem they would not have been approved for sale or approved for use in BSJA or BD even showing, please give this wonderful object a try I love mine more each time I ride


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## chattyday84 (3 January 2017)

You will just go with him hunni mine throws a multitude of shapes and i never budge but fly off miles from a standard saddle lol


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## chattyday84 (3 January 2017)

You don't sit on the saddle and you should be evenly riding to not place all your weight in stirrups even when rising! Try rising without stirrups for a while same principal


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## lara b (3 January 2017)

chattyday84 said:



			I have a welsh sec c in this saddle and after doing exactly what you have, and spending fortunes on treed saddles and saddle fitters! Resulting in a very sore problem bucker, i have been using this for a year now and she is perfect and so am I! We jump hunt hack xc sponsored rides everything in only this saddle with a square and a half pad! Feel free to find me on fb and view my images of said saddle and pony, i have also had physio back lady and saddler back out who have found no fault in her or saddle at all! This little horse is the happiest on my yard competes regularly, now 30% of my yard own one of these saddles and have had the same result from there horses one being a 17hh ID who is terrified of standard saddles due to pain relation memories so we have been led to believe, if theyou caused any pain or problem they would not have been approved for sale or approved for use in BSJA or BD even showing, please give this wonderful object a try I love mine more each time I ride
		
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Hiya, do you know if they are approved for BD?  I know one lady did use hers for dressage but the BD rule book can be quite specific and I'm not sure if BD will allow? Thanks


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