# A bitting musing.....single joint vs double jointed



## georgiegirl (16 May 2013)

Assuming I will be back on board tomorrow after our trip to the vets (whole other story.....) Im toying with the idea of putting Autumn back into a single jointed bit for flat work.

My reasoning being I read an article today about single jointed bits providing clearer communication to each side of the mouth whereas a double jointed or lozenge type can give mixed or unclear signals.

Thinking back when I first had her I had her in a single jointed bit whereas now in a french link she seems to champ and open her mouth quite a lot. Any way its worth a try I reckon...

Any thoughts??


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## lindsayH (16 May 2013)

I've always prefered double jointed so as to avoid nutcracker action but would be dictated by the horse. If she likes single jointed more then go with it!


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## somethingillremember (16 May 2013)

My reasoning being I read an article today about single jointed bits providing clearer communication to each side of the mouth whereas a double jointed or lozenge type can give mixed or unclear signals.

Hi , where was this article as Id be interested in reading it , thanks


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## georgiegirl (16 May 2013)

Hi - it was in a magazine where I saw it. Cant remember the name but its one of those free equestrian ad type ones you pick up in tack shops.

Now see I went down the french link route thinking I was doing the right thing etc getting rid of the nutcracker action etc but actually thinking back I dont remember her mouth being quite so busy with a single jointed bit - only one way to see and try it!

To be honest the more I think on it you would have to be exerting a huge amount of pressure on a single jointed bit to actually get any 'nutcracker' action. So.....which is better for the horse? Could some of all this 'lozenge' talk be marketing from companies? or is it just a case of whatever suits?

Really interesting to see what people think


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## Gamebird (16 May 2013)

I've debated this in the bit I'm doing for e-venting about breaking horses. I tend to find that my older horses are fine with a lozenge but that the babies can be too busy in the mouth and play too much with a double joint. Having said all that I did eventually put a horse doing BE int/* tests in a nathe straight bar to keep his contact steady, but that probably say more about my sitting trot than his mouth.

Play about, she'll soon tell you what she prefers.


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## YardGeek (16 May 2013)

I always prefer to use a lozenge mouthpiece over a single jointed as I feel they sit better in the mouth, as well as avoiding the nutcracker or pinching action of a single joint. Saying that I would be willing to try some of the sprenger anatomical shaped single joint bits as they seem to be much more 'mouth' shaped.

I've never had issues with a lozenge bit causing mixed signals, and having just changed a horse I am schooling from a single to double jointed, I would even say I am getting more refined movements as it is sitting better in her mouth. (note* both bits fitted correctly but the lozenge just sat better)


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## Wheels (16 May 2013)

I suppose it depends on the double joint and how it sits in the mouth. My youngster started in a single joint but I moved him on to a French link for a while but really the centre plate was too big and the edge of the joint were virtually on his bars = sore!

We now have a double joint with the centre section much smaller and he's happy


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## Wheels (16 May 2013)

georgiegirl said:



			To be honest the more I think on it you would have to be exerting a huge amount of pressure on a single jointed bit to actually get any 'nutcracker' action.
		
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No, you really don't have to apply much pressure at all before you're squeezing the tongue


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## anna22 (16 May 2013)

I like the lozenges, but I did have an ISH who I changed to a lozenge because he was soft and sensitive... he hated it, threw his head round, refused the contact etc.  He ended up in the single joint snaffle from an old weymouth.  It was so thin and dainty I thought it to be rather severe, but he liked it as I think it just "fit" his mouth.
Horses for courses to a certain extent I think.


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## georgiegirl (16 May 2013)

Wheels said:



			No, you really don't have to apply much pressure at all before you're squeezing the tongue
		
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I was always under the impression that nutcracker action referred to the action on the horses palate as opposed to the tongue?


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## Sol (16 May 2013)

I almost always prefer straight bars/mullen mouth bits... which hardly anyone seems to use. So just go with whatever works for you & the horse


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## lamlyn2012 (16 May 2013)

I've just changed from a French link to a single jointed because mine was champing and open ing mouth ad you have described.


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## lamlyn2012 (16 May 2013)

Sorry, phone blip. Anyway,  was just going to say he is much more settled in the single jointed.


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## ScarlettLady (16 May 2013)

Interesting thread.  I'm having the same debate about my youngster at the moment. He seems to prefer a loose ring lozenge but it has rubbed his mouth (sensitive soul) and one of my instructors hates loose rings as they delay the aid for the horse and an eggbutt/full cheek is more direct. 
He wasn't too happy in the single jointed egg butt however now looking to try eggbutt with lozenge.


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## JGC (16 May 2013)

My two go in the same single-jointed RS dynamic. The only snaffle my difficult to bit older mare has liked, every other bit, she pokes her tongue out the side, including shaped like Verbindend. She also goes well in the double or a pelham, which seems to me to be because of the clear sinals thing. They both have very fat tongues and I think any link is just taking up too much space


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## Kat (16 May 2013)

I use a demi anky single joint and no nutcracker action


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## kerilli (16 May 2013)

depends on the horse, some definitely prefer 1 over the other, but the article is right in that if you are using the hands in the classical way (my understanding is that that means: only moving 1 side of the bit at a time) then you give a clearer signal to the horse with a single-jointed bit, sine one side moves, the other is still. Will a double joint, you get extra wiggle, apparently. That's how it was explained to me, anyway.
there was a fairly recent study (done in Germany I think, by Sprenger iirc) where they x-rayed horses with bits in, and discovered that there is a lot less room in there than previously thought, and that the double-jointed bits with the smallest middle part are probably the comfiest... the tongue, once the mouth is shut, is narrower than previously thought, iirc. 
fascinating stuff.


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## Kelpie (16 May 2013)

Wheels said:



			I suppose it depends on the double joint and how it sits in the mouth. My youngster started in a single joint but I moved him on to a French link for a while but really the centre plate was too big and the edge of the joint were virtually on his bars = sore!

We now have a double joint with the centre section much smaller and he's happy
		
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I think a lot of people forget this about the double jointed bits - the horse's lower jaw is actually quite narrow so it's easier than you think to find that the joints on the double jointed bit actually end up putting pressure right on the bars - ouch!

If I use a double jointed bit, I'm always very careful to pick one with a really small losenge in the middle to try and avoid this problem.


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## Wheels (17 May 2013)

georgiegirl said:



			I was always under the impression that nutcracker action referred to the action on the horses palate as opposed to the tongue?
		
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How can the palate be nut cracked? The bit doesn't wrap around the palate, the joint can hit the palate though but thenut cracker action is around the tongue and lower jaw


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## Brimmers (17 May 2013)

Wheels said:



			How can the palate be nut cracked? The bit doesn't wrap around the palate, the joint can hit the palate though but thenut cracker action is around the tongue and lower jaw
		
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I think most people when they refer to the nutcracker action they mean both parts, so the bit squeezes the tongue and the middle joint can poke up into the horses palate. Maybe not technically correct but it saves saying "the nutcracker and consequential palate poke"  which is a bit of a mouthful 

Have a look at your horses mouth confo. My warmblood has a huge tongue and he goes best in a French link hanging cheek. The double link lets the bit lie over the tongue and the hanging cheek supports some of the weight. 

See if you can borrow a couple of different type of snaffles and try them out


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## Pongwiffy (17 May 2013)

I'd say it is worth a go! 

As a rider I prefer the feel of a single joint over a lozenge but I'd use whatever my horse liked. I am actually having more success with a cheap fat hard rubber mullen snaffle than I did with either - evidently my horse hasn't read the research Sprenger or Myler have conducted!


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## Kenzo (17 May 2013)

I have the view that surley it just depends on the hands and the mouth confo, therefore ideally there shouldn't be much difference between the two unless the contact and the pallet differs on a horse with a 'good mouth' it a good point, certainly makes you think about the variables rather than what people are led to think.


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## siennamum (17 May 2013)

My gelding likes either a proper french link with a small lozenge or a nice old fashioned single jointed german snaffle. Either way he also prefers an eggbut, too much play in a loose ring.


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## Goldenstar (17 May 2013)

I think if you are wanting the clearest signal side to side the myler is the one to go for.


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## Scarlett (17 May 2013)

I've swapped all of mine back into single joints after a couple of years with a lozenge and have found they much prefer it! I have the NS Demi-Anky bits which are shaped to avoid the nutcracker action, horses steadier in the contact and more willing to go forward.


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## Mochalle Metcallf (17 March 2021)

I used to always ask myself at * why is my horse ignoring my  half halts . It want until someone explained to me how a snaffle joint works and whatvitvwas designed to do ,bthat I fully underood why the single joint is more effective for giving a  clear aid , or half halt for example a classical term called   (  Deme Arret). It is because the the joint in the middle turns and then the corners of the lips are where the aid is felt with the rider lifting their hands. As opposed to the double joint, which still works into the corners of lips. The double jointed snaffle has more play inside the mouth and on the tongue due to the movement n both sides of the mouth , where the joint is connected to the centre piece. ( double joint ) this moves the bit into the tongue and less to the corners of the lips. It adds more time and more effort for the aid to be felt into the corner of the lips , giving the horse an is option to "play " with the movement on the tongue , rather than listen to the aid and therefore I came to the conclusion after trying both single and double jointed that the reaction time to the Deme Arret aid is shorter using the single joint , than using the double joint. Mho


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## AUB (17 March 2021)

Depends on the horse. 
I’ve ridden most of mine in a Herman Sprenger Dynamic rs double jointed with D shaped rings and they’ve been very happy in it. My mare though prefers single jointed and goes very well on the HS novocontact with loose rings.


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## milliepops (17 March 2021)

8 year old thread


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## j1ffy (17 March 2021)

I always wonder how new users come across these old threads, particularly when they have a clear idea on the answer! Is it a google search? Or on the forum itself so they can spread their theories more widely?! Very odd.

Also not sure why we need a French term when the English term is well-known and a direct translation


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## Pippity (17 March 2021)

j1ffy said:



			I always wonder how new users come across these old threads, particularly when they have a clear idea on the answer! Is it a google search? Or on the forum itself so they can spread their theories more widely?! Very odd.

Also not sure why we need a French term when the English term is well-known and a direct translation 

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French is Fancy. (I insist on doing arse-in and arse-out instead of renvers and travers.)


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## j1ffy (17 March 2021)

Pippity said:



			French is Fancy. (I insist on doing arse-in and arse-out instead of renvers and travers.)
		
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😂 Sounds like my two half-10m circles: They are always known as the 'wiggle-wiggle'!


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## Mochalle Metcallf (17 March 2021)

Pippity said:



			French is Fancy. (I insist on doing arse-in and arse-out instead of renvers and travers.)
		
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French designed the snaffle as a lifting bit, used first to t eeach the horse to carry itself  ( lift neck , jaw and withers ) up into the riders hand. 
The Spanish Riding School is traditionally influenced by Baucher s training methods who was French.


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## Mochalle Metcallf (17 March 2021)

The double joint does have less effect on the corners of the mouth, or may require more key in the lock action of the wrist to make an effective ( immediate response ) of the aid.  
For example if the snaffle joint is lifted into the corners of the lips when in hand , the horse will immediately usually take a step back , placing his weight on his back legs. 
If we use a double joint snaffle for the same exercise , in hand , the horse will move his jaw , rather than his whole weight ,  as the centre link sits on the tongue and is moved side to side when the lifting aid is given, the joints move on the tongue. Q 
Less pressure to the corners of the lips , and more play on the tongue means the rider may need to give the aid twice , before it's understood. 
Horses prefer the double joints as they learn to play with the movement on the tongue. The downfall of this when trainjng a horse in classical dreddage , the bit is traditionally used to lift and the horse must understand that the aid into the corners of its lips, means to sit theor weight back, lift their withers and carry themselves. Mhoz


AUB said:



			Depends on the horse.
I’ve ridden most of mine in a Herman Sprenger Dynamic rs double jointed with D shaped rings and they’ve been very happy in it. My mare though prefers single jointed and goes very well on the HS novocontact with loose rings.[/QUO
		
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## Pippity (18 March 2021)

Mochalle Metcallf said:



			French designed the snaffle as a lifting bit, used first to t eeach the horse to carry itself  ( lift neck , jaw and withers ) up into the riders hand.
The Spanish Riding School is traditionally influenced by Baucher s training methods who was French.
		
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I'm not French, I'm not riding at the Spanish Riding School, and my conformational trainwreck of a cob is not a Lipizzaner. I ride in a snaffle because it's what she's comfortable in.


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## SmallSteps (21 March 2021)

j1ffy said:



			😂 Sounds like my two half-10m circles: They are always known as the 'wiggle-wiggle'!
		
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omg I call it a wiggle-wiggle too! #wigglebuds


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