# lumps/spots protein lumps maybe ? please help



## angelish (6 April 2011)

hi 
my competition horse  has been suffering on and off with lumps since jan ,they first appear like small marbles under the skin ,there bigger than nettle sting type hives 
then they scab over and become really inflamed hot and very sore 

they got that bad i got the vet out in jan and he thought it was an alergie so he had 5 days steroids ,antibiotics and pain killers witch got rid of them ,although i think they didn't go down any quicker than just putting sudacream on them 

the vet wanted to do blood tests after a month to try and find the cause ,now i have looked into this and they seem really unreliable and a little pointless tbh 

so i took him off all hard feed ,binned all my lotions and potions and washed all his things and my cloths (ridding him bare back while lumps in way of saddle) in hypoalergelic non bio stuffy then put everything through another wash with no powder to ensure a good rinse 

he has gone 3 weeks with no feed and the spots have almost gone 1-2 a week although its poss there fly bites but unlikely 
introduced alfa a oil on sun ,same on mon ,tues = lumps back 

my friend has said they might be protein lumps/bumps ?
has anyone had anything like this ,he's going to need some hard feed soon as he is usually on oats + vits + sugar beat while competing (BE90 )as he needs extra oomp 
do i dare give him anything ,i'm really at my whits end with this 

we desp need sj practice and keep missing fast work (only place i can do it is on beach and i am not attempting that bareback  ) so getting worried about fitness now
our whole season is going to be finished before it starts  

anyone got any ideas , or dealt with anything like this ?
any ideas at all would be apreciated 

ben and gerrys if i haven't bored you with my bad spelling & desperation


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## DarkHorseB (6 April 2011)

I've never come across this before but I did hear someone today saying they horse had this reaction if fed barley


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## Firewell (6 April 2011)

Could be, or could be an allergy to Alfa. My mums old horse got protein bumps, they were hard and tender but not oozing or anything.
Try feeding an oil for energy, oats have protein. Maybe Speedie beet, cup of oil and a non Alfa chaff. Or ring the feed companies see what they suggest.. There might be a cube they can suggest that will give him energy but without too much protein.
It seems as if it is protein/Alfa based or the lumps wouldn't have gone and come back in time with the Alfa oil?
Otherwise I would think he's been laying on something that's irritating him. That happened to my horse.


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## not_with_it (6 April 2011)

Is he still wearing a rug?

I only ask because my mare has recently come out in a really bad heat rash. The lumps werent as big but she looked like bubble wrap on her barrel and then they scabbed over. It appeared a few weeks ago when it came really warm. She is now just in a lightweight at night and the rash is now starting to disappear. She was fully clipped. I did consider protein lumps but she isnt on anything heating. 

The same thing also happened to a friends horse and bloods came back clear.


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## angelish (6 April 2011)

hi thanks for the ideas .they are hard and tender at first then get a tiny scab on top then go down in about 5 days

sorry forgot to mention as soon as i noticed them, he went straight down to his light weight rug 
i never thought to ring a feed comp ,ill do that tomorrow thanks for that idea

i'm just scared to feed him anything as they take nearly a week to go down ,i'm riding bare back ,walking him in hand on hacks ,jumping on the lunge and long reining to keep him going but really sick of this now


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## LMR (6 April 2011)

My boy had a similar reaction to Alfa A, i changed him to a chaff without alfa in it and the lumps dissappeared within a week and have never come back. hope u get to the bottom of it soon!


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## Ditchjumper2 (6 April 2011)

My boy had they same.  Went hunting got on at meet he was fine after 40 mins covered in lumps which were spreading.  He was most unhappy so hacked back to meet.  Gave him 12 Piriton and Epsom Salts when we got home and same next day.  Lumps went!!


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## angelish (6 April 2011)

thanks for the input lmr

so alpha A can cause a problem  or maybe even  as it hopefuly will be a case of just chuck the rest of the bag out = prob solved 

it just looks so inoccent ,he has also been fed it all his life but i am aware that they can change something in the way its made etc that may cause a prob or the horse himself may become sensitive


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## Wolfie (6 April 2011)

My horse had protein bumps last year. They were like wee pencil leads under the skin. They never got hot or irritated and just went down and disappeared over the winter.

 It sounds more like an allergy to something. Could be in the feed, it could be insect bites or nettle stings etc. Have you washed your rugs lately?

 Poor chap, hope he feels better soon!


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## angelish (6 April 2011)

thanks wolfie , his don't seem the same then so must be an alergy 

his rugs hadn't been washed when the lumps appeared ,although they have now as the only thing that seems to help is to gently rub sudocream onto them witch is now all over his rugs 

the vet didn't seem to think hay or haylage would make any difference ,he is on haylage although it is the type that is quite dry and more like hay really 
i bought the bales straight of the field last year so he has had the same all winter


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## MegaBeast (6 April 2011)

My mare had a similar problem on three separate occasions - each when on Alfa A!  Have now banned it from her diet and been fine since so think there's definitely a link there.  Although wouldn't say it's down to the protein specifically.


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## angelish (6 April 2011)

thanks for that megabeast 

i'm starting to feel better that its the alpha causing it ,i'm just panicking a bit that i can't get completley rid of them and its driving me crazy ,i'm nearly frightened to look under his rug in the mornings  and it is sore bless him 

was worried i wasn't going to be able to feed him anything ,but ill feed nothing but hay again for a week then start adding one at a time again but obviously the alpha already binned


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## Honey08 (6 April 2011)

I'm going to throw a spanner in your Alfa A works, and say that my mare got these twice - the first time it turned out to be sugarbeet, the second it was haylage.  She is a hot type - doesn't need many rugs (too many cause bumps too, but to a lesser extent) that sweats easily.  She is fine on Alfa A.

I think its a case of trial and error - putting things back into the equation until you work out what it is...


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## MegaBeast (6 April 2011)

Tell you what is a brilliant chaff that I now use instead of Alfa-A and have done so since last Summer - Dodson and Horrell Just Grass.  It's very palatable and pure grass so nothing for them to react to!  Only £8.79 a bag (and that's Countrywide prices) which lasts me over a month (feeding 3 scoops a day).  Can't rate it highly enough.


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## Nicco (6 April 2011)

Alfa A seems to be the cause of the lumps on our horse's back. Have always fed Alfa A with no problems but with this horse it seems to have been the problem. Now feed small amounts of Mollichaff Happy Hoof or Mollichaff Calmer alongside D&H Build Up Mix and Competition Mix and no problems. Hope you find a solution for your horse.


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## applestroodle (7 April 2011)

My old guy used to come out in something similar if fed alfa a or haylage if that helps, once i cut it out they never came back. Hope you get to the bottom of it poor boy.


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## MillbrookSong (7 April 2011)

If they are protein lumps try adding some sulphur to his feed. Not sure of the amount but could find that out, seems to work as well as anything else.


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## HelsB (7 April 2011)

The latest reaction is more likely to be due to the soya oil than the alfalfa. Soya oil has more Omega 6 than Omega 3 - horses need more Omega 3 than 6 (Omega 3 is anti inflammatory and Omega 6 is pro inflammatory)

Soya can often cause reactions in horses and is widely used in mixes and cubes.


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## Mrs Pink (7 April 2011)

Hi Angelish

Sister's eventer has a similar thing, they came and went starting in September last year, and then they came and stopped  to cut a long story short after cutting all feed back and soaking hay, disinfecting everything, the vet came and did blood tests and it appears that she is allergic to grass, apart 9 varieties  bearing in mind she is a home bred mare and eaten the same grass for nine years!!!

She then had a steroid injection probably about 6/8 weeks ago to re-boot the immune system and the lumps went and have (touches wood) stayed away.

We have just changed her onto seed hay as this was all we could get hold off in a large quantity, it's still soaked and everything appears to be going well, we can't obviously feed her our own haylage which is a bummer!!! If the steroid didn't work, then the next route was to feed her on alfalfa as this is a legume and not a grass, she isn't however on hard feed yet so time will tell on that one, we may have to go down the simple systems route. She is being brought back into work and if all goes well, aiming for the latter half of the season, sister is gutted as she finished at Intermediate last year and wanted to continue from where she left off 

The vet said that he had come across one other similar case, the horse was put on steroids, but then had to be turned away for personal reasons of the owner, steroids not used and it came right but took about 12/18 months

Anyway what I'm trying to say is we probably could have saved time and effort by having the allergy tests done earlier and I hope you get to the bottom of it because it really is quite frustrating


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## angelish (7 April 2011)

thank you all for replies 

honey08 throwing spanners is fine ,its what i wanted really a kind of brain storming sesh to try and get to bottom of it 

mega beast that sounds great ill see if our local has any i can try 

nicco thanks fingers crossed he is the same as yours 

applestoodle thanks ,again  hope it is just the alfa they were def worse after 2 feeds of only alfa but have never really got rid of every last one since jan 

MBS that sounds interesting can you find out more info if poss although i am starting to think def an allergy 

helsB hi is it soya oil in alpha A oil ? you might have misread if not as after not giving him anything for 3 weeks i started to introduce one thing at a time ,starting with the alpha A oil on its own stupidly thinking this was most unlikely to cause a reaction.
since november he has had top line cubes ,alpha A oil ,sugar beat a vit& min suplement and a salt lick 

mrspink i feel your sisters pain , it is very frustrating  i really hope the mare stays spot free and your sister gets her going for the 2nd half of the season.
its something so silly and minor until they erupt badly ,or you get just one right were you want to put the girth  they are sore for a good 5 days and its constant stop - start with training & fitness 
the vet frightened the life out of me by mentioning anafalectic shock  if they were to get worse 
ill find out if mine is allergic to grass tomorrow as he has just gone into a grassy field after being in a sand/ash type paddock all winter to prevent his mud fever stopping games 
really hope he isn't, what on earth to do with a horse allergic to grass 

think ill trade him in for a nice tough tb/wb  for those who ain't seen him he is a big tough looking irish / cob type the big pansy 

he has no new lumps today although tuesdays lumps are still sore but going away so hopefully going sj on sunday 
thanks for the simple system suggestion ( sorry can't remember who said it  ) iv'e herd of it but will go a serching and look into it more as from what i can remember it sounded ideal 

fingers crossed he hasn't reacted to the grass today 
thank you very much again


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## Tnavas (7 April 2011)

Try feeding him oats and meadow chaff damped with water only. Meadow Hay only.

Put a pure cotton/Linen sheet under his covers. Wash him thouroughly with Nizerol to remove any possible connection to fungus - same for rugs, grooming kit and tack.

Check supplements for soy products and not feed if they do. A mineral block is the easiest way to go. Feed zinc and copper supplement as they help strengthen the skin. Feeding yeast will bind any mycotoxins.

Wash stable walls with Vircon.


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