# Horses that can't eat hay - what do you feed and how do they cope?



## Silmarillion (15 May 2011)

I've just been told my horse may not be able to eat hay again, as it irritates her throat to the point that it swells up right at the back of her mouth, and causes her to choke.

She's currently being fed three times a day on Mollichaff, Fast Fibre and a balancer (she's out 24/7) and is looking fantastic, though could do with some grass. It's the winter I'm worried about, though - she will have to be separated from her skinny TB friend (really can't see how that's going to work  ) and fed three times a day. I've had her on Readigrass before and she just downs it like it's a bucket feed, not picks at it like it's hay. I'm wondering how she's going to cope with the lack of hay, even if I do feed her Readigrass..? How much Readigrass can I feed in one go? Can it be fed ad-lib like hay, or does it have to be treated like bucket feed and only a certain amount given at once?

I'll probably give a feed company a call about one of the dried grass products nearer the autumn / winter, but I just wondered if anyone else had a horse who couldn't eat hay or haylage and how they coped, what they got fed etc.

Thanks


----------



## MillionDollar (15 May 2011)

Is it the length of the hay stalks that's the problem? If so could you get a chaff cutter and put the hay through that so the stalks are short?


----------



## Silmarillion (15 May 2011)

I have no idea - my mum has been dealing with the vet and is unfortunately rather vague  but all I know is that hay and haylage irritate her throat, vet didn't want her to have chaff either but she's not choked on Mollichop so far as it's quite soft and we make soup out of it and the Fast Fibre so she pretty much slurps it up  Very long grass also makes her choke, so I'm assuming it's the length of what she puts in her mouth (short grass is fine).

I will have a look into that, thanks


----------



## cm2581 (15 May 2011)

I have one that can't eat long fibres. Even sometimes chaff!! She lives on grass, soaked high fibre nuts and speedi beet. Alfabeet, fibrebeet, fast fibre, Soft n Soak ReadyFibre Mash etc all viable alternatives. Happy hoof, healthy hooves and many others also as chaffs. My mare is 600kg so this time of year she gets 3-4kg (dry weight) each night (she won't eat anymore) and at worst she was eating 10-12kg when we had snow on the ground. So half a bag of high fibre nuts a day!! She is a relatively good doer so actually doesn't need any 'hard feed' other than her hay replacer. There are a huge number of options but what yo go for will depend on budget, horses taste, local availability and dietary requirements.


----------



## Silmarillion (15 May 2011)

cm2581 said:



			I have one that can't eat long fibres. Even sometimes chaff!! She lives on grass, soaked high fibre nuts and speedi beet. Alfabeet, fibrebeet, fast fibre, Soft n Soak ReadyFibre Mash etc all viable alternatives. Happy hoof, healthy hooves and many others also as chaffs. My mare is 600kg so this time of year she gets 3-4kg (dry weight) each night (she won't eat anymore) and at worst she was eating 10-12kg when we had snow on the ground. So half a bag of high fibre nuts a day!! She is a relatively good doer so actually doesn't need any 'hard feed' other than her hay replacer. There are a huge number of options but what yo go for will depend on budget, horses taste, local availability and dietary requirements.
		
Click to expand...

So you actually feed it as ad-lib, rather than by a certain weight? I seem to have this thing in my head that I wouldn't be able to do that as you're only "supposed" to feed up to a certain amount in one go?


----------



## touchstone (15 May 2011)

The veteran Horse Society have a rrecipe for a hay replacer:-


HAY REPLACER

It is extremely easy to feed with dental problems. With little chew ability hay may not be an option so you will need a hay-replacer. This is very simple to make and can make a huge difference to horses and ponies with limited chewing ability.

½ a large bucket of Fibregy by Dodson & Horrell. (www.dodsonandhorrell.com)
1lb of high fibre cubes
 4lb wet sugar beet, for those who do find weight hard to keep on.
½ bucket of water.
Let this stand for 2 hours or make in the morning for the evening.

Always use a cube or nut as coarse mix is impossible for some veterans to chew, soaking it to a paté type consistency before feeding. Add 1 pint of water to every 2lb (1 scoop) of cube feed e.g. 16+ Cube for high protein intake, and High Fibre Cubes for low protein intake.


They use Dodson and Horrell products, but there are plenty of similar feeds from other companies, fast fibre from allen and page is excellent.
It is fine to feed fibre feeds/hay replacers in large quantities, it is only concentrate feed that needs to be kept at about 4lb max per feed.


----------



## cm2581 (15 May 2011)

Silmarillion said:



			So you actually feed it as ad-lib, rather than by a certain weight? I seem to have this thing in my head that I wouldn't be able to do that as you're only "supposed" to feed up to a certain amount in one go?
		
Click to expand...

The rules of feeding such as small feeds often are based on concentrate (cereal) feeds. This is not the type of feed you need to be feeding. Hay replacer type feeds are mostly very high in fibre. Fibre passes through the stomach in around 10-15 mins, but starchy cereals are much longer (not sure exactly). This is also why you can feed these feeds before riding as well. What size and type is your mare and what was was she being fed before she had this problem? How old is she and what level of work does she do? How much grazing does she have? It is absolutely ESSENTIAL that your horse receives at least 1% of her bodyweight a day in fibre feed. Any less than this and you run the risk of very serious digestive problems. I have discovered that even the hay replacer type feeds available have a huge variation in the available energy or calories in them. So also what you choose depends on being able to feed enough of it to get the necessary bulk into your horse without her becoming overweight. But if she isn't that good a doer then this won't be a problem. Ad lib is fine with my mare but there are some who would eat themselves to death!!!


----------



## now_loves_mares (16 May 2011)

Lots of good advice already. I just wanted to add some very recent experience. My mare has suffered from several gastric problems recently, and due to Colitis I've had her on a no-hay diet for the last couple of months. She's also been on box rest due to a foot injury, so the immobility plus the damaged colon kept causing colic. She loves readigrass, but when I tried to feed it as an overnight hay replacer, she did as you mention and wolfed the whole thing down at once. Cue colic again the next day. So for the last two months she has been on a rather intensive feeding schedule of soaked cubes. Soaked to a) get enough water in her as she's been unwell and b) it takes longer to eat if soaked. Her absolute favourite is soaked Spillers High Fibre Cubes. Every alternate feed she gets soaked grass nuts - again she loves these but they are rather messy! During the day, if I'm here, she gets fed every hour and a half. I feed her last thing at night and get up once in the night. She also had gastric ulcers, so I'm not keen for her to go all night without feed. Her breakfast and dinner are cool fibre and soaked speedibeet so I can put her supplements in. It's been rather hard work, but as of today she is slowly starting to increase her grass intake. 

One suggestion that worked (if you have to stable in summer) is to pull/cut some longer grass and fill a haynet with it. Otherwise, in winter I'd saying getting the calories in isn't too difficult, the problem is the boredom! I think, if you don't already, you will need to keep your horse out as much as possible, even when there is snow; and if you are on livery try to work out a schedule so the feeds can be split up in to several per day. Another option for the stable is a decahedron toy, filled with high fibre cubes. Keeps them occupied for a bit! My lazy version, as long as the floor is clean, is just to scatter a handful of fibre cubes around the stable every time I pass.

Admittedly my schedule has been rather tough as my horse was fairly ill; but don't underestimate the impact of not being able to leave your horse with a stuffed haynet overnight. If your horse is ok with chaff/readigrass, then I've been trying to figure out if there is a way to put that in a haynet. I'm thinking about something along the lines of the string bags oranges come in, then stuffed inside another net or two. No idea if it would work or not though Oh and also my feed merchant sells chopped hay - possibly another alternative?


----------



## JoG (16 May 2011)

I had a friend who used to feed something called "le brick" to replace hay....it took the horses ages to eat it.  This was _years_ ago though so might not be around any more


----------



## FairyLights (16 May 2011)

Theres someone near our village with a few horses and ponies. one small pony has endless trouble with eating hay. I dont think a dentist has ever been near it and its quite old and i expect it has sharp teeth. She manages by sticking a rug on it all winter. In May the rug is removed and its like a skeleton. she then puts it into a paddock with grass. it puts weight on and looks ok by the end of summer. The rug hides the weight loss to the general public although us horse owners see its scrawny neck. shes got away with this for 3 winters that I aware of, despite lots of reports to the "authorities". 
the other way would be to feed ad-lib chaff [eg hi-fi] and soaked hi -fibre cubes . fed to  appetite.
ETA if your horse cant manage chaff then try soaked sugar beet and soaked hi fibre cubes. simple systems also do a product, i think its called lucie-bics which you soak. allen and pafe do a sugar beet and alfalfa product which you soak . then theres grass nuts which can also be soaked to a mushy consistancy.


----------



## qaz (17 May 2011)

I used to have a horse with a similar problem. I simply put haylage (which is softer & less irritable to the back of the throat) through a Black & Decker Garden Shredder so that it was really short cut & filled up a dustbin and pressed it in so that it was fairly compressed then I tipped three kettles of boiling water over it and put the lid on for an hour so that it effectively steamed it until is was all soft. Then I just up-ended the dustbin either in the corner of his stable or in the field and he just ate the pile. It resembled grass clippings and it didn't really take that much time to do once I'd worked it into my routine.


----------



## Silmarillion (17 May 2011)

Thanks to everyone for such good advice, all much appreciated 

A few direct replies:



			
				qaz said:
			
		


			I used to have a horse with a similar problem. I simply put haylage (which is softer & less irritable to the back of the throat) through a Black & Decker Garden Shredder so that it was really short cut & filled up a dustbin and pressed it in so that it was fairly compressed then I tipped three kettles of boiling water over it and put the lid on for an hour so that it effectively steamed it until is was all soft. Then I just up-ended the dustbin either in the corner of his stable or in the field and he just ate the pile. It resembled grass clippings and it didn't really take that much time to do once I'd worked it into my routine.
		
Click to expand...

I really love that idea, thanks! 



			
				cm2581 said:
			
		


			The rules of feeding such as small feeds often are based on concentrate (cereal) feeds. This is not the type of feed you need to be feeding. Hay replacer type feeds are mostly very high in fibre. Fibre passes through the stomach in around 10-15 mins, but starchy cereals are much longer (not sure exactly). This is also why you can feed these feeds before riding as well. What size and type is your mare and what was was she being fed before she had this problem? How old is she and what level of work does she do? How much grazing does she have? It is absolutely ESSENTIAL that your horse receives at least 1% of her bodyweight a day in fibre feed.
		
Click to expand...

I think I knew that really, I think I just panicked having been told not to feed her any hay any more 

She's a 15.3hh ID x Connemara, 15 years old, in light work (old injury prevents her from doing any more, or from being stabled; hacked for an hour four to six times a week, 20 mins walk, the rest is trot, still building her fitness up), she's out 24/7 currently on quite sparse grazing (not quite dust, but there's not a lot there due to the lack of rain!) Over the winter she was on one feed of a cup of Fast Fibre, a scoop of HiFi Lite, and Bailey's Lo-Cal, with ad-lib hay or haylage depending on what we could get hold of. She came out of winter looking a little poor. In summer she is usually a good doer, and poor in winter, but this summer she is actually _needing_ feed and was looking poor four weeks ago. She's now being fed Fast Fibre, balancer and a scoop of Mollichaff Original three times a day - a pic of her recently (after new diet started):







Please ignore the broodmare belly, it makes her look fat but she's actually currently in really fab condition for her. Luckily the vet that saw her four weeks before that photo and commented on her poor condition managed to see past it too - she had ribs and NO covering on her bum (I'm ashamed to say)! Unfortunately no photos of her a month ago to prove this! Damn!

I'm sure she's getting plenty of feed at the moment, she's just desperate for grass but I'm sure I'd be desperate for fresh food after weeks of having to eat dried stuff  It's winter I'm really concerned about, when the little grass she has disappears. She is always adequately rugged though, of course.



			
				JoG said:
			
		


			I had a friend who used to feed something called "le brick" to replace hay....it took the horses ages to eat it. This was years ago though so might not be around any more
		
Click to expand...

I remember that, it used to be sold by Horsefair until supply stopped due to a fire... I think it's still sold by Dynavena. I also happen to remember a friend's skinny warmblood attempting to down it in one... stupid mare 



			
				touchstone said:
			
		


			The veteran Horse Society have a rrecipe for a hay replacer:-


HAY REPLACER

It is extremely easy to feed with dental problems. With little chew ability hay may not be an option so you will need a hay-replacer. This is very simple to make and can make a huge difference to horses and ponies with limited chewing ability.

½ a large bucket of Fibregy by Dodson & Horrell. (www.dodsonandhorrell.com)
1lb of high fibre cubes
4lb wet sugar beet, for those who do find weight hard to keep on.
½ bucket of water.
Let this stand for 2 hours or make in the morning for the evening.

Always use a cube or nut as coarse mix is impossible for some veterans to chew, soaking it to a paté type consistency before feeding. Add 1 pint of water to every 2lb (1 scoop) of cube feed e.g. 16+ Cube for high protein intake, and High Fibre Cubes for low protein intake.


They use Dodson and Horrell products, but there are plenty of similar feeds from other companies, fast fibre from allen and page is excellent.
		
Click to expand...

Some more really fab advice, thanks


----------



## Girlracer (17 May 2011)

My 27yo tbx can't eat hay (he lost some teeth and just quids it and spits it back out) he's fed a large feed of fast fibre, mix, and chaff twice daily over the winter. Along with ad-lib ultra grass as a hay replacer.


----------



## Hels_Bells (18 May 2011)

My veteran is also on hay replacers. At the moment he's getting quite a lot from grass but in winter he gets

A&P fast fibre (highest fibre content I have been able to find) about 2kg dry weight soaked each day
A carrierbag full of mollychaff herbal (forgive vague weight it has been measured carefully but can't remember what it was)
A largeish trug of readigrass or graze on
1 kg of soaked grass nuts (these are his favourite)
1 kg sugarbeet

He eats all this overnight then picks during the day. He's a 15.2hh good doer who's 34.01771 613328

At mo he's getting plenty of grass so only gets a bit of fast fibre and his grass nuts!


----------



## Tnavas (19 May 2011)

I had a horse with a similar problem - he was scoped by the vet and diagnosed with a swallowing problem. 

I fed him chaffed hay as he was able to swallow this. He also was unable to eat long grass.

However - a twist to the story - I had a new dentist look at his teeth for me and he used a gag and found that the back bottom mollars were growing into the roof of the mouth - the horse had had his teeth done regularly but by a dentist that didn't use a gag.

Once these teeth had been sorted he was able to eat hay, long grass with no problem.

I had the use of a chaff cutter so chaffed his hay ration, also chaffed up his haylage - but be careful youdon't pack haylage too tight as I broke one of the plates.


----------

