# Danish GSD pup 3 weeks



## Moobli (18 November 2017)

I am totally in love!  Sorry for the overload, but he is just getting to that super cute stage <3


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## GirlFriday (18 November 2017)

Now yours is a bit bigger OP do you mind me asking what kind of research you did into the long term health effects of a non-natural covering? I mean obviously it is highly unlikely that two healthy GSDs would produce a litter or one naturally and there will be some implications based on growth rates... and semen does degrade outside bodies... but you're clearly a very caring and knowledgable owner/knowledge seeking owner so I was wondering what you weighed up in order to decide to go with this as an option as opposed to flying one or other parent?


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## RubysGold (18 November 2017)

Omg.  I think I'm in love <3 
He is absolutely adorable!!!!


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## JennBags (18 November 2017)

That is most definitely not photo overload, there aren't enough photos 

He's so cute!


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## Amymay (18 November 2017)

More, more &#128525;&#128525;


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## Nici (18 November 2017)

Oh, how sweet!


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## MurphysMinder (18 November 2017)

That is a lovely looking pup!  Girl Friday,  i have known plenty of singleton pups from natural matings,  I certainly wouldn't say it was highly unlikely .


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## Alec Swan (18 November 2017)

MurphysMinder said:



			&#8230;&#8230;.. ,  I have known plenty of singleton pups from natural matings,  I certainly wouldn't say it was highly unlikely .
		
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The smallest litter that I've ever had is 5 though it does happen that singletons are born,  obviously.  Would there ever be a risk of mastitis because it would be doubtful that a bitch would limit her milk production,  I'd have thought.  MM,  is there a risk of too rapid a growth rate with single pups?  Never having had it happen to me,  I ask out of interest.

The pup is a lovely dark colour,  and he already seems to be huge!  Considering his unlimited milk supply,  and his rapid growth,  it will be interesting to see if he finishes at a standard height.  Keep us posted,  please!

Alec.


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## MurphysMinder (18 November 2017)

The biggest concern with a single pup is usually that it will grow too big in utero and a c section being needed .  I've never had one in a gsd litter myself (tho I did with a jrt) but of the ones I've known of , whilst the pups do very well whilst on the bitch they seem to level out once weaned .   Having not been closely involved other than aforementioned jrt I don't know the answer to tiue mastitis question .


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## CorvusCorax (18 November 2017)

What a bruiser! I've also known of plenty of singletons as well.

We're both sire and dam maidens? The female usually dictates the size of the litter.


ETA: My dog's dam had two in her first litter. Four in her second, two had enough drive for the other two, who had none  and she was never able to take again. Shame, she was a smashing female.


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## Moobli (19 November 2017)

GirlFriday said:



			Now yours is a bit bigger OP do you mind me asking what kind of research you did into the long term health effects of a non-natural covering? I mean obviously it is highly unlikely that two healthy GSDs would produce a litter or one naturally and there will be some implications based on growth rates... and semen does degrade outside bodies... but you're clearly a very caring and knowledgable owner/knowledge seeking owner so I was wondering what you weighed up in order to decide to go with this as an option as opposed to flying one or other parent?
		
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No problem.  The bitch's owner, who is also a vet (although not a canine reproduction expert) did lots of research into natural mating vs insemination with chilled or frozen semen.  If semen is impaired (fresh or frozen) in ANY way, it won't be fertile.  Simple as that.  For unknown reasons, in some breeds (German shepherd, Welsh springer spaniel for example) the fertility rate is very poor when using frozen semen.  In other breeds there is very little difference in reproduction success.  We would have preferred to bring Fuga to Zak but Fuga's owner only knows 2-3 weeks prior to the optimum time and wouldn't contemplate putting her dog on a plane without her being next to her and of course that is impossible, so we discussed driving and there were too many obstacles to that - including children/other animals at home, work commitments etc.

Artificial insemination has been practiced for decades in swine and cattle, so there are no arguments against it ... other than it's not very efficient in our breed.  

The fact he is a singleton pup shouldn't have any impact on his end size.  He is heavy now. 350-800 grams ahead of the last litter the bitch had but that is to be expected.  There is some speculation that having no siblings can be negative and it IS of course in some senses. But he has other dogs in the household as well as his mother, there are other animals including two kittens and also the family (three children, two adults) and he spends all his time with the family.

On the other hand, the positive is that all the focus on him,  he can be introduced to the clicker as soon as he can eat.  He can start tracking as soon as he is started on dry food.  Of course this can be done with a bigger litter as well, but who has the time for that?!  

All in all, we would of course have preferred a larger litter (especially as there were so many great homes lined up) but it is just one of those things.  The breeder has plans to use Zak's semen again in the future, but on a younger bitch - as the age of the bitch may also have had a bearing on the litter size.


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## Moobli (19 November 2017)

RubysGold said:



			Omg.  I think I'm in love <3 
He is absolutely adorable!!!!
		
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JennBags said:



			That is most definitely not photo overload, there aren't enough photos 

He's so cute!
		
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amymay said:



			More, more &#55357;&#56845;&#55357;&#56845;
		
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Nici said:



			Oh, how sweet!
		
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Thanks everyone.  I have the sweetest videos of him too, but don't think I am able to share them here.


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## CorvusCorax (19 November 2017)

Another thing to consider about AI is that it is forbidden by the ruling body of the breed. Anything born after June 2018 will have to comply with certain regulations in order to be judged in a show or trial by an SV judge so that might be worth bearing in mind if any future pups would be going to sport/performance homes. I can't imagine if things are being tightened up that the AI ban will be compromised on.


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## Moobli (19 November 2017)

MurphysMinder said:



			That is a lovely looking pup!  Girl Friday,  i have known plenty of singleton pups from natural matings,  I certainly wouldn't say it was highly unlikely .
		
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Thank you MM.  I don't think singleton pups are common, but neither are they particularly rare as far as I am aware.



Alec Swan said:



			The smallest litter that I've ever had is 5 though it does happen that singletons are born,  obviously.  Would there ever be a risk of mastitis because it would be doubtful that a bitch would limit her milk production,  I'd have thought.  MM,  is there a risk of too rapid a growth rate with single pups?  Never having had it happen to me,  I ask out of interest.

The pup is a lovely dark colour,  and he already seems to be huge!  Considering his unlimited milk supply,  and his rapid growth,  it will be interesting to see if he finishes at a standard height.  Keep us posted,  please!

Alec.
		
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I guess there could be a risk of mastitis, as there is in any lactating female but thankfully there have been no problems here at all and the breeder is a vet so would expect her to be on top of any issues that might arise.

I will certainly update on the pup as he grows


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## Moobli (19 November 2017)

MurphysMinder said:



			The biggest concern with a single pup is usually that it will grow too big in utero and a c section being needed .  I've never had one in a gsd litter myself (tho I did with a jrt) but of the ones I've known of , whilst the pups do very well whilst on the bitch they seem to level out once weaned .   Having not been closely involved other than aforementioned jrt I don't know the answer to tiue mastitis question .
		
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She had a c-section with her first litter and so it was expected she would probably have to have another, and especially so when scans revealed he was a singleton.



CorvusCorax said:



			What a bruiser! I've also known of plenty of singletons as well.

We're both sire and dam maidens? The female usually dictates the size of the litter.

ETA: My dog's dam had two in her first litter. Four in her second, two had enough drive for the other two, who had none  and she was never able to take again. Shame, she was a smashing female.
		
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The bitch has had one previous litter - six pups but one died at birth.


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## Alec Swan (19 November 2017)

If there are any questions over the naming of that pup,  then I think that Bear would be fitting!

I also see the sense of MM's point that growth rate will level-out at weaning &#8212; he's still huge though!   He's a grand pup!

Alec.


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## Moobli (19 November 2017)

CorvusCorax said:



			Another thing to consider about AI is that it is forbidden by the ruling body of the breed. Anything born after June 2018 will have to comply with certain regulations in order to be judged in a show or trial by an SV judge so that might be worth bearing in mind if any future pups would be going to sport/performance homes. I can't imagine if things are being tightened up that the AI ban will be compromised on.
		
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Will that make any difference to FCI registered pups?  Its currently considered equal to natural mating in FCI and isnt marked as AI on the pedigree.  I will point it out to the breeder as she competes in IPO in Denmark.


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## Moobli (19 November 2017)

Alec Swan said:



			If there are any questions over the naming of that pup,  then I think that Bear would be fitting!

I also see the sense of MM's point that growth rate will level-out at weaning &#8212; he's still huge though!   He's a grand pup!

Alec.
		
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Thanks Alec.  Hes a topper!  Theyve decided to call him Phoenix but, I agree, Bear suits him perfectly.


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## CorvusCorax (19 November 2017)

WorkingGSD said:



			Will that make any difference to FCI registered pups?  It&#8217;s currently considered equal to natural mating in FCI and isn&#8217;t marked as AI on the pedigree.  I will point it out to the breeder as she competes in IPO in Denmark.
		
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It might if the offspring will one day have to compete under an SV judge. The WUSV is also centralising the issuing of pedigrees/creating a global breed book as part of these plans.


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## SusieT (19 November 2017)

Bit disappointing that a vet is breeding a dog who has had to have a c- section already  It's not a good animal welfare practice to breed a dog knowing you are likely to have to perform a caesarean.


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## Alec Swan (19 November 2017)

[edit] ^^^^ FFS! 

Alec.


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## MrsMozart (19 November 2017)

Gorgeous pup.


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## Cinnamontoast (19 November 2017)

Isn&#8217;t it quite unusual for a GSD to have to have a c section? I&#8217;m a bit surprised that the breeder went ahead, too. I keep reading about smaller breeds (popular ones like Boston terriers etc) needing c sections and people deriding this saying it&#8217;s not ideal. 

He&#8217;s huge, I can see him being massive as an adult! Super cute, love the picture of his pads.


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## CorvusCorax (19 November 2017)

A FB contact's GSD female just had a second c-section and it will be her last litter. 
Think there were five in each litter. The recent ones look huge at almost three weeks. First litter all doing well and the female returned to work after the first litter also.


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## Alec Swan (19 November 2017)

W-GSD,  whilst a c-section would be likely in the case of a single pup,  did the breeder explain why the first litter weren't produced naturally?

Alec.


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## Moobli (19 November 2017)

CorvusCorax said:



			It might if the offspring will one day have to compete under an SV judge. The WUSV is also centralising the issuing of pedigrees/creating a global breed book as part of these plans.
		
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Thanks for the info!


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## Moobli (19 November 2017)

SusieT said:



			Bit disappointing that a vet is breeding a dog who has had to have a c- section already  It's not a good animal welfare practice to breed a dog knowing you are likely to have to perform a caesarean.
		
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I may have worded that badly.  A bitch who has undergone a caesarean first time has a 70% chance of a natural birth second time around.  It became clear a second caesarean would be required when the scan revealed he was a singleton.


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## Moobli (19 November 2017)

MrsMozart said:



			Gorgeous pup.
		
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Thanks!


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## Moobli (19 November 2017)

cinnamontoast said:



			Isnt it quite unusual for a GSD to have to have a c section? Im a bit surprised that the breeder went ahead, too. I keep reading about smaller breeds (popular ones like Boston terriers etc) needing c sections and people deriding this saying its not ideal. 

Hes huge, I can see him being massive as an adult! Super cute, love the picture of his pads.
		
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GSDs like any other breed may require a c-section if there are complications with the birth.  It is not normal practice to perform a caesarean if whelping is all going to plan.


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## Moobli (19 November 2017)

CorvusCorax said:



			A FB contact's GSD female just had a second c-section and it will be her last litter. 
Think there were five in each litter. The recent ones look huge at almost three weeks. First litter all doing well and the female returned to work after the first litter also.
		
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Thats great all pups (and mum) are doing well.  This will also be this bitchs last litter and she will then go back to training for IPO3 and a separate tracking qualification.


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## Moobli (19 November 2017)

Alec Swan said:



			W-GSD,  whilst a c-section would be likely in the case of a single pup,  did the breeder explain why the first litter weren't produced naturally?

Alec.
		
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Yes Alec.  There was an obstruction in one horn of the uterus, which prevented the labour from going to the final stage.


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## MurphysMinder (20 November 2017)

I have only had one bitch who needed a c section,  which was due to uterine inertia.   The decision as to whether to breed from her again was made for me as she haemorraghed on the table so had to be spayed.   I probably wouldn't have bred from her again as the same could have happened in a future litter,  a physical cause like an overly large puppy is slightly different .    The KC now won't register puppies from a bitch who has had more than 2 sections,  which is maybe one reason why there are so many unregistered frenchies etc or "designer" crosses.


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## Alec Swan (20 November 2017)

MurphysMinder said:



			I have only had one bitch who needed a c section,  which was due to uterine inertia.   &#8230;&#8230;.. .
		
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Was there no Oxytocin available?  I've only used it for dogs twice,  both times with older bitches,  and the results were spectacular.  For older ewes and previously when I kept cattle I always have Oxytocin at hand.

Alec.


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## Clodagh (20 November 2017)

We had a hound bitch here to whelp and in spite of way too much oxytocin eventually being administered she still ended up having a C section.


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## MurphysMinder (20 November 2017)

Alec Swan said:



			Was there no Oxytocin available?  I've only used it for dogs twice,  both times with older bitches,  and the results were spectacular.  For older ewes and previously when I kept cattle I always have Oxytocin at hand.

Alec.
		
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She had the first 4 with oxytocin then the vet and I decided enough was enough as the bitch was getting exhausted.   She had another 4 pups via the section,  all thrived.


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## Moobli (2 December 2017)

Six weeks old on Monday.


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## jsprince (2 December 2017)

So handsome, and growing fast. I still think you should smuggle him home to you.&#55357;&#56835;


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## Moobli (14 January 2018)

Ears up and training commenced


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## splashgirl45 (14 January 2018)

what a good looking boy...


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## JennBags (14 January 2018)

He's really lovely,  I missed the December update.  What are they going to do with him long term?


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## Moobli (15 January 2018)

He is so gorgeous and is already reminding me of his father.

Sadly JennBags he is not mine.  The breeder is keeping him with the long-term aim of using him at stud in the future, all being well but he is now living full time with her best friend/work colleague (vet and vet clinician) who is going to train him for IPO trials.  

The rather exciting news is that Zak may be used again on a working line GSD bitch in the North of Scotland and, as it will be a natural mating, I would be hoping for/expecting a higher number of pups ... so later this year it is feasible I might have a new puppy.  I don't like to count my chickens before they've hatched and the bitch requires one more health test, but if that goes to plan then it will be all systems go when she comes into season in the early summer.


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## Clodagh (15 January 2018)

WorkingGSD said:



			He is so gorgeous and is already reminding me of his father.

Sadly JennBags he is not mine.  The breeder is keeping him with the long-term aim of using him at stud in the future, all being well but he is now living full time with her best friend/work colleague (vet and vet clinician) who is going to train him for IPO trials.  

The rather exciting news is that Zak may be used again on a working line GSD bitch in the North of Scotland and, as it will be a natural mating, I would be hoping for/expecting a higher number of pups ... so later this year it is feasible I might have a new puppy.  I don't like to count my chickens before they've hatched and the bitch requires one more health test, but if that goes to plan then it will be all systems go when she comes into season in the early summer.
		
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Oh fingers crossed for you.
The pup is lovely, he has gone from looking like a stuffed toy to a proper GSD! He is very much like his Dad in colouring, but I think the bitch was the same?


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