# Flash noseband vs grackle noseband- opinions?



## Sabrina&Stardust (29 August 2012)

Just wondering who prefers cavesson with flash nosebands to grackle nosebands and vice versa. And why?


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## Eriskayowner (29 August 2012)

I have grackle nosebands on both Mouse and Jazz. Jazz crosses his jaw resulting in complete brake failure but is as soft as anything with the grackle. Mouse opens his mouth but can cross his jaw so he's also in a grackle. The grackle on him is very lose though - just there as a reminder. He's a nightmare in a cavesson.


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## sbloom (30 August 2012)

They all have different functions and origins and aren't really interchangeable.  I didn't even used to use a cavesson - after all it was only developed to stop cavalry horsesw breaking their jaws if they hit the deck at speed.  Only another thing to clean!

The grackle has a legitimate use - to stop horses crossing their jaws, and to that end, not legal for British Dressage, though legal for all phases of eventing.

The flash is, in my opinion and many others, a poor piece of equipment.  It was conceived as a way to add some of the function of the dropped noseband - to keep the bit up in the mouth, to stabilise it and the mouth, and to stop the mouth being opened wide - but still be able to use a standing martingale.  Obviously you can't use one with a dropped noseband.

The auction riders realised that the flash could mask issues with the contact and they could produce horses for the sales more quickly and therefore make more profit.  Somehow from there is became the dressage bit of choice.  There are so many issues with them - the flash strap really doesn't do the right job - the wrong angle, no lateral stability, doesn't really hold the bit up or stabilise it, but if both bits are done up pretty tight it does indeed stop the horse opening its mouth.  If the cavesson is done up too loosely it pulls down and is ineffective, if the cavesson is done up tight enough to hold the flash strap up then I think it is too tight.

http://www.sustainabledressage.net/tack/bridle.php#flash


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## Shay (30 August 2012)

Ditto Sbloom really - they are not designed to do the same thing.  So you need to use the right noseband for the right horse.

Tacking isn't - or shouldn't be - about fashion.  I won't type you an essay but please do look up what the various bits of kit are actually designed to do and use them correctly.  You'll have  a far happier horse.  

If you do decide to go with a grakle do also make sure that it is fitted correctly.  I know it might be a Pony Club organiser thing - but the number of people I see at tack check with a grakle because it looks nice but then have it fitted compeltely wrong!


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## Sabrina&Stardust (30 August 2012)

This question isn't about me & my pony, it's about my friend with her's. When she bought her's she was told that the pony should always wear a flash noseband because he opens his mouth and evades the contact. My friend has tried him without a flash on in one of her lessons and the instructor told her she really ought to leave his flash on? Someone at our yard has told her to try a grackle- they said it is kinder than the flash and distributes the pressure more easily? She asked me if I've ever had any experience with a grackle and I said no but I'll ask other people they're opinions- which is what this thread is about .

I don't use a flash with my pony, there is no need to and it's just another bit of leather around his face as far as I'm concerned. My old pony used to have no noseband what-so-ever (it suited her) but my current pony just wears a caverson noseband because even though it doesn't really do anything, I think he looks nicer with a noseband because it splits up his long face.


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## Theocat (30 August 2012)

In your friend's shoes I would try a drop. Can't stand flash nosebands for the reason sbloom gave - I think it's a really poor design.


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## sbloom (31 August 2012)

In an ideal world the trainer should be helping the rider to find out WHY the horse is opening his mouth - it is usually physical or emotional discomfort, sometimes a lack of understanding of the schooling work being done.  Strapping the mouth shut simply can cause tension - the lower jaw needs to be soft to allow true poll flexion as well as allowing the horse to swallow the saliva it produces!

A drop is generally a better first option for school work but it should be loose enough to allow the horse to slightly open its mouth - a too tight drop is possibly nastier than a flash  A grackle does not encourage steadiness of the bit and although a very useful noseband for fast work I don't think it should be first choice for addressing flatwork issues, especially if there is any chance of competing in dressage as even unaffiliated competitions run under BD rules so it would not be allowed.


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## thatsmygirl (31 August 2012)

I have a grakkle on my mare who will cross her jaw to use it against you. I brought her as a project from the field as nobody could do much with her but iv hunted her and hunter trials so I'm happy but couldn't do it without the grakkle. 

All my others have no nosebands at all, don't need them.


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## welshstar (31 August 2012)

I used to use a flash on mine (after struggling away with the cavesson- I didn't want to change his bit before fiddling with the noseband). I found he didn't like the flash and we had a not very nice contact. I moved him over to a mexican grackle for jumping and working hunters and a drop for dressage. He seems much happier and is seeking the contact much more consistently.


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## Burmilla (31 August 2012)

I dislike all nosebands, but realise that others have their opinions, to which they are wholly entitled. I think that horses and ponies "evade" contact for their own good reasons. I would prefer to try my best, with professional help, to find out what that reason was and go from there. I think tack is often used to get what is required from the horse asap. This is not usually the best and most effective way to achieve that over time.


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## Spyda (31 August 2012)

I HATE the fact that 99% off off-the-shelf bridles, even the quality one, come as-standard with a flash attached. Why? It's sooo bloody annoying. 

Frankly, I don't like flash nose bands at the best of times. Either use a properly fitted canvason nose band (as it does complete the look of a bridle IMO) or a drop or grackle depending on why you're needing to use one. I appreciate you can't attach a standing martingale to the latter two, but these aren't so commonly used these days (as they were, say, 25 - 30 years back) and I bet less than 90% of people whose horse wears a flash these days don't _ever_ use a standing martingale.


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