# timber stables vs american barn



## digitalangel (20 November 2012)

Hi guys,

I am looking into putting in 4-6 more stables at my new place, ideally i would like a small american barn with 4 stables plus hay store/tack room/farrier area - i am wondering if the cost would be prohibitive? how does the cost compare to say the same but in a traditional timber stable setup?

Many thanks


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## Suelin (20 November 2012)

If I were building again I would go down the AB route but I would have the Hay/straw in a separate building due to fire risk.


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## MillionDollar (20 November 2012)

A lot more for an AB, but they are so much better IMO. When the weather is vile and everything is under one roof it's a godsend. If you do go for AB get windows put in tha stables to the outside so the horses can put their heads out 

As above make sure hay/straw is in a seperate building as fire risk is too great under the same roof.


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## lachlanandmarcus (21 November 2012)

I had a mini barn built that has exactly your spec - 4 stables plus a wide centra gangway and a tack/feed room. We paid extra to upgrade the spec (eg thicker wall boarding, portal frame so if we sold the house someone without horses could just take out the stables without the building falling down - also makes it stronger, glazed outer windows as we get horrendous gales and blizzards (Cairngorms!) so we can in extreme weather close the outer window but horse can still see out and get the light. 

It was the best decision we ever made. I wouldnt consider one without opening outer windows tho, that way horses get the best of both worlds and get good ventilation and also warm and cosy barn and its sooooooo lovely when you are mucking out in horrid weather. 

Our barn cost about £10k plus the extras and ended up as about £12k - tho this did include both delivery and erection (groundworks we did). This was Saltire Stables. They were very helpful and we got to insulate behind the boards as they built it (because of our extreme location). 

Looking at their mid range looseboxes of a similar spec to the barn without the extras, 4 12x12 looseboxes plus a tack room would be 8-9k plus delivery. So not much of a saving, plus you dont get the useful internal gangway.

Of course you can buy looseboxes a lot cheaper - the lower spec Saltire ones you could get the 4+tack room for £6k odd plus delivery - its a question of whether it is a long term 'keep' or whether you might move in a couple of years and so not be so bothered - and also about resources. 

Heres a couple of pics when it was first put up. Our local planners seemed to prefer the barn as it is in a farming area so looked more like the agrcultural barns they cant object to, also there is less mess and clutter as stuff can be stored inside.


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## digitalangel (21 November 2012)

wow what a fantastic post and a beautiful barn! thank you so much for the post. personall like you i prefer american barns, but was worried about rhe cost being prohibitive - expecially with the groundworks/concreting - can i ask how much that was for you?

I was also thinking steel would be better than wood? or is that not the case?

Thanks!


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## Suelin (21 November 2012)

Lachlanandmarcus that is extremely smart.  Next time, if there is one, I would love something similar.


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## lachlanandmarcus (21 November 2012)

digitalangel said:



			wow what a fantastic post and a beautiful barn! thank you so much for the post. personall like you i prefer american barns, but was worried about rhe cost being prohibitive - expecially with the groundworks/concreting - can i ask how much that was for you?

I was also thinking steel would be better than wood? or is that not the case?

Thanks!
		
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I wouldnt have steel. Condensation is a big issue unless you use expensive anti condensation layer to line it, plus it is very cold in winter and very hot in summer - think of how hot cars get in the summer if left parked :-(((( Its really blockwork or wood or brick that are suitable for horses as they absorb excess heat and insulate from cold (or in my case, extreme cold!)

The groundworks were a LOT for us - but you can see that the site is sloping.....this is to be avoided if you can possibly help it but we live in a mountains foothills so it was impossible to avoid! Also the planners wanted the foundations to be basically those for a house (except that our house actually has no foundations its too old so the stables have better footings!) because of the slope which meant it was kind of a civil engineering project. The cost is all about the slope. Without that, we could have done the groundworks for a couple of thousand, with the slope it was more like 5-7k (and then theres electrics, water, drainage etc). 

The advantage of the slope is that our muck trailer can be parked alongside the corner nearest in the pic and we made the horizontal fence rails removable slip rails so that you can take the wheelbarrow onto the muck trailer straight from the yard and tip it - which saves a massive amount of time and backache. It also mens however wet the fields get, the stables are always bone dry. 

A couple of tips on the groundworks (i) you can get readymix concrete to mix yourself in a little mixer, or the big lorry full. Go for the lorry, it is the only way to get a good smooth strong longlasting base. Also you can get anti-frost fibres put in which will make the concrete last a lot longer, and even an additive to fight the effects of the acid in animal urine. 

On the drainage, if you look at the internal photo you can see the drain grid running down the middle, these are cast iron drains like they use on petrol station forecourts and airport taxiways, I hate those flimsy clip in thin steel ones they have on a lot of yards as if a horse steps on the end of a section they can ping out and injure them really nastily, so worth considering given the horses are walking over them every single day. 

If you did go for a barn you can play with the layout - esp if its portal frame (ie the stable partitions arent playing any part in holding up the roof) - my big chap has a 14x12 so the boxes are 14x12, 2 12x12 and a 10x12.

The sliding door rather than doors opening out is also a great help if you are in a windy location, much safer!

I chose not to have water inside the building so that is on one of the Stonehenge (woodhenge?) posts outside - we get such deep frosts I didnt want any risk of a pipe bursting inside.

If you can possibly stretch to it and the planners are pro it, I would absolutely go for the mini barn with windows outside, after its built you forget about the money but it sort of pays you back every time you use it on a daily basis! Its fab for farrier and vet too, puts them in a good mood on a foul day when they can do everything inside. 

Saltire were good as you only had to pay 25% until the stables were up and built, having been ripped off over an agricultural building and lost a lot of money we were wary about the whole thing but this reassured us hugely. They also did all the planning drawings incl for the drainage. 

whichever way you build your stables I hope they happen and are lovely!

Edited to add - our house was derelict shell when we moved up and I lived in a static caravan for 10 months - by the time the stables were finished and the horses had their palace you can guess where I was still living.....in the caravan! Horsey peeps, eh! (Did get to move into house eventually!)


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## digitalangel (21 November 2012)

Thanks so much for your amazingly thought our reply! Luckily my place doesnt slope much, its fairly flat so should be too much for the groundworks - i hope!!!!! Im going to give saltire stables a call tomorrow, and also JWS as i think they are more local. I already have 4 outdoor stables but hoping i can turn at least two of those into a hay barn/storage area. then have the 4 stable mini barn. I am budgeting around 20k for the barn plus groundwork - does that sound reasonable?


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## Venevidivici (21 November 2012)

We have an American Barn,containing 10stables,kitchen,tack rm,toilet and feed room. Upstairs is a mezzanine lounge/office,which leads thru fireproof doors to a specially fireproofed upstairs hay barn. (As the site is on a slope,the hay barn can be loaded from ground level outside,as ground level at the back is at the hay barn level-sorry,diff to explain!) All stables have opening grille windows. There are 2 horse sized exits (manual double doors and an electric shutter)at the front,an emergency horse exit (sliding door) at the back and a pedestrian door at the side. There is a u-shaped, wide gangway all round the interior,plenty of space to tie horses up outside stables& at the tap (&still get others past). The building is steel frame with block and brick interior,the outer being clad in stone on the bottom and timber on the top(a planning stipulation I think.) Temp wise,we get a good thru draught from the front&back doors(&windows) in summer and in winter,the horses inside with the shutter down generate good warmth! There can be condensation on cold to warm days but we don't have anti condensation roof panels,which I gather would prevent this(have looked into it.) Our pipes are all lagged and only had one burst (the horse shower!) at -18C, 2 winters ago. I love everything being indoors - no wind and no snow shovelling!


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## lachlanandmarcus (21 November 2012)

digitalangel said:



			Thanks so much for your amazingly thought our reply! Luckily my place doesnt slope much, its fairly flat so should be too much for the groundworks - i hope!!!!! Im going to give saltire stables a call tomorrow, and also JWS as i think they are more local. I already have 4 outdoor stables but hoping i can turn at least two of those into a hay barn/storage area. then have the 4 stable mini barn. I am budgeting around 20k for the barn plus groundwork - does that sound reasonable?
		
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I think that would be ample to do the mini barn and also cover the work on converting the other stables (NB I wouldnt convert them until the planners sign in blood the PP for the new barn..). The 20k might cover the groundworks too. It will depend on the spec but we had quite a few extras. 

NB forgot to say we were originally planning to have rooflights but decided against in  the end as the cutting into the roof sheets would have necessarily slightly increased the risk of leaks because of our mad/wild weather location. But they were an option that was available. The onduline roof is lined with OSB board underneath which helps with insulation and helps to prevent it blowing off - so far it has survived 4-5 years of Cairngorm weather so I wouldnt have any issue with roof spec's with onduline rather than say, tin or fibre cement sheets or something.

Just wanted to do decent posts as when I was doing mine it was so stressful trying to work out the costs and what to do, and its such a lot of money you really only get one shot to get it right!


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## lachlanandmarcus (21 November 2012)

Suelin said:



			Lachlanandmarcus that is extremely smart.  Next time, if there is one, I would love something similar.
		
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It is slightly less smart after 4 years of Madam Stinky Knickers playing the ancient Chinese game of Whooo Flung Dung up the white walls........:-DDDDD

 (I repaint it every 2 years - Osmo Country Colour which is linseed oil based and copes with our -20 to +30 temps better than normal chemical paint and is safe for the neds)


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## LCH611 (22 November 2012)

I have an american barn with 4 internal stables and a tack room with a thick steel door. The building is 15m x 7m and the cost of materials was about £10k. Lovely husband did all the work and managed to salvage some Loddon internal partitions so we didn't pay for those. I don't unfortunately have electricity and the water pressure was a bit feeble so he put in a header tank for me. After years of squelching about in the mud with only 1 stable for emergencies it is unimaginable luxury having a dry indoor space.


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## Polotash (22 November 2012)

LCH611 said:



			I have an american barn with 4 internal stables and a tack room with a thick steel door. The building is 15m x 7m and the cost of materials was about £10k. Lovely husband did all the work and managed to salvage some Loddon internal partitions so we didn't pay for those. I don't unfortunately have electricity and the water pressure was a bit feeble so he put in a header tank for me. After years of squelching about in the mud with only 1 stable for emergencies it is unimaginable luxury having a dry indoor space.
		
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I built my own too (with help from OH and a couple of friends on concrete mixing weekends!)

http://i510.photobucket.com/albums/s350/Polotash/DSC03416.jpg

The total cost for ours was about 10k, which was all materials. We sunk massive wooden uprights into the ground, battened the whole lot inside and out for the wood cladding inside and metal outside and used a corrugated roof. To keep it cool in summer (which worked, much to my relief!) we left air flow gaps under the roof. Being tall they were way over the horses heads, but really kept it ventilated.

Others are right, the central space for vet/ farrier etc was a god send.

My internal partitions cost £3600 for 6 fronts and 4 middles from Graham Pluess (based in Cornwall but delivered to Hants).

Water was already on site, but the electric cost another 5k. That totally depends on where your nearest supply is though, it can be many many times that if you have to bring it a long way as electric companies have to do it to your field entrance, so have you over a barrel!


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## lachlanandmarcus (22 November 2012)

Thats a great funky design Polotash and love the ventilation - if only field shelter manufacturers would incorporate that or at least hit and miss boarding at the top of the back wall, there would be a lot fewer flying shelters! Have only seen one that does!

Great minds think alike on colour too! :-DD


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## showjump (22 November 2012)

Heres mine (part finished in this pic)  Its steel frame imo the best option, with concrete panels on the inside, clad in wood. 





Again finished;





The internal my dad made, and we sourced the pvc tounge and groove from Germany;
Before we started to assemble them;















Completed;






I built my last yard as a U section with tea room, 5 stables and tack room, and tie up bay in the middle. (clock tower type area) I 100% would go for the american barn design, all dry and under one roof. I only have to go out to tip barrow or ride! Its pure luxury! Good luck!


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## Suelin (22 November 2012)

Wow!!  that is very smart indeed!!  Super design altogether.


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## YasandCrystal (22 November 2012)

Wow both those barns are beautiful - makes my converted polebarn feel like a squalid poor relation  and I shall not be posting up pics 

I agree though barn living is great for the humans and the horses and my chickens really appreciate mine as do the cats GPs and rabbit in winter


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## showjump (22 November 2012)

Thanks, took so thought getting them as we wanted.
Yasandcrystal- funny you should say that, i have found my horses are much happier in these stables than the last yard. They seem more content, and settled.


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## YasandCrystal (22 November 2012)

showjump said:



			Thanks, took so thought getting them as we wanted.
Yasandcrystal- funny you should say that, i have found my horses are much happier in these stables than the last yard. They seem more content, and settled.
		
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Well Showjump not surprising really I would be happy living in your light and airy barn


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## Polos Mum (23 November 2012)

I'm not a fan of wood, my horses just eat it and the maintenance is quite high to keep it waterproof/ looking nice.  We built ours with breezeblock, both the walls outside and internal partitions.  It worked out much cheaper than wood bought in stables.  We had 7 stables and a feed room plus attached 10m by 12 m tractor/ storage area for £23k including all the groundworks, water, electric windows etc. 
The internal partitions I built half height with the intention of putting grills up at a later date but the horses are always resting over the walls, scratching each other so I've never bothered.


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