# Budweiser Clydesdales, docking



## millikins (25 April 2015)

FB feed this a.m contained video of Budweiser's new foals, all of whom have been docked. Does anyone else get annoyed at the gushy outpourings at every Bud clip/commercial but I've yet to see a comment about the docked tails, a practice banned in this country (with possible prison sentence) in 1949?


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## Sukistokes2 (25 April 2015)

Yeah but they are in America where the practice is not banned. While I think all sorts of docking should be banned ( except for some gun dog cases) it is another country and its their  rules. Apart from that you simply will not see better looked after or trained horses. I would be more worried about the herds of starving, over bred horses here , horses we could help. Although I do see where you are coming from.


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## lelly (25 April 2015)

I personally think it's cruel whether its banned in america or not. It's time they did ban it, there's absolutely no reason for docking a horse.


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## Honeylight (25 April 2015)

I didn't know they did this. What is wrong with shaving the dock as they do in UK heavy horse showing classes?
The USA's record on horse welfare is not that good though is it? Why should we be surprised with tail nicking and soring of saddle horses, hormone treatments and painkillers for racehorses and selective breeding of arabs so they look like seahorses, not forgetting quarter horses looking like Belgian Blue bulls.


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## Meowy Catkin (25 April 2015)

I'm going to disagree with HL that the dish of some arabian heads (which is made to look awful IMO by the way that they shave them for showing in many countries) is the welfare issue in the breed. The big issue is the intimidation, fear and pain used in some of the training methods and unfortunately this doesn't just happen in the US. There was a very interesting article interviewing Erik Dorssers of Bluebell Arabians on this subject in the Arabian Magazine.

ETA - plus the group 7 countries (middle east) in endurance have a horrific welfare record, although of course it isn't just purebred arabs that compete in endurance.


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## Cortez (25 April 2015)

There is ignorance and cruelty towards animals in every country, and there are far worse things than docking going on in the horse world, believe me. There is no reason to dock horses (or dogs) other than fashion, but as earlier poster points out, it is not illegal in the USA and really none of our business.


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## Equi (25 April 2015)

They are working horses who will be pulling carts their entire life. These carts are dangerous and not just run of the mill things and their tails are in danger of getting caught. It's the same as gun dogs getting it done to make sure their tails don't get broke being pulled out of holes.


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## Malibu_Stacy (25 April 2015)

equi said:



			They are working horses who will be pulling carts their entire life. These carts are dangerous and not just run of the mill things and their tails are in danger of getting caught. It's the same as gun dogs getting it done to make sure their tails don't get broke being pulled out of holes.
		
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And yet working heavy horses in this country and Europe seem to manage just fine with undocked tails....


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## lelly (25 April 2015)

Malibu_Stacy said:



			And yet working heavy horses in this country and Europe seem to manage just fine with undocked tails....
		
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Exactly!


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## Cortez (25 April 2015)

equi said:



			They are working horses who will be pulling carts their entire life. These carts are dangerous and not just run of the mill things and their tails are in danger of getting caught. It's the same as gun dogs getting it done to make sure their tails don't get broke being pulled out of holes.
		
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Nonsense. And even if this was a problem, tying the tail up, or shortening it above the hocks would be the solution. Cutting through a horse's spine is never going to be justifiable. Oh, and I actually own a horse with a docked tail >>


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## ester (25 April 2015)

Cortez what was the reason for your's to be docked? Is it a spanish thing to do them?

And yes equi that is complete nonsense plenty of driving horses cope just fine with tails and those working in conditions that need less of a tail can be tied up or if absolutely necessary long term shaved.


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## Cortez (25 April 2015)

ester said:



			Cortez what was the reason for your's to be docked? Is it a spanish thing to do them?
		
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Result of a too-tight tail bandage, actually. His very lovely former owner brought him from Spain to UK and thought she was doing a good thing.......delayed by weather at the ferry, the poor lad spent 5 days with a tight tail bandage and as a result lost all but the top 3 inches of his tail.


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## twiggy2 (25 April 2015)

equi said:



			They are working horses who will be pulling carts their entire life. These carts are dangerous and not just run of the mill things and their tails are in danger of getting caught. It's the same as gun dogs getting it done to make sure their tails don't get broke being pulled out of holes.
		
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so cut the hair not the spine!

a gundog should not go down a hole to need pulling out


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## ester (25 April 2015)

Ah not the only one to suffer that fate  

re. terriers the reason they are docked is for damage on the edges of holes when working underground? but you want to keep enough that you can grab them... not to stop them being broken I thought?




			The risk of incurring tail injuries is far greater with working terriers than other breeds. Not only do they work above ground alongside the more traditional gundog breeds and fulfil a similar role, but they also work below ground as well.

Above ground (by virtue of their much smaller size) they seek out and pursue quarry in the densest cover where other larger breeds cannot reach and in doing so place themselves at greater risk of incurring injuries. By their very nature they do so in a most determined manner and the risk of incurring tail injuries is further exacerbated by the terrier&#8217;s natural behaviour, which is not only to bark repeatedly at its quarry whilst in pursuit, but also to &#8220;flick&#8221; or &#8220;wag&#8221; its tail furiously when doing so.

Below ground the terrier&#8217;s role is to seek out and flush its quarry. It does so by continually barking and throughout this process its tail is endlessly &#8220;wagging&#8221; or &#8220;flicking&#8221; from side to side. The closer it gets to its quarry, the more vigorously it wags its tail.

A correctly shortened tail is to some extent protected from injury by its position on the body and the relative size of the hole through which the terrier&#8217;s body can pass. Nevertheless it is not uncommon for a terrier to wear away the hairs at the end of its tail when working below ground, even when correctly docked. If the tail were any longer it would be continuously beating against the sides of the holes, roots, rocks and any other obstructions encountered below ground, and would result in far more significant injuries.
		
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http://www.terrierwork.com/taildocking.htm


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## ycbm (25 April 2015)

Some people are saying it's legal in America so it's none of our business, but it is our business if we buy the beer. I've asked my OH to buy another brand and I'm just about to find the email address I can write to to tell them that I won't buy Bud again until they buy undocked foals. Every little helps.


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## deb_l222 (25 April 2015)

Their tails are cut very short but they're not docked.  Just do a bit of googling and there's several images of full tails, just no hair!!  This is no different to how heavy horses are shown in the UK. 

In all honesty though I think there's far worse things to worry about as the Bud Clydesdales are an immaculately kept bunch of equines with a breeding and homing programme that would rival anything in the world.


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## ester (25 April 2015)

but we are talking foals.... 

http://www.wcnc.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/04/24/clydesdale-budweiser/26306173/

the one on the right at the very start? and then more so at 2.14 is definitely docked?

http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/e23...K/KSDK/635646126349356069-Still0414-00054.jpg


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## briarlee (7 December 2015)

millikins said:



			FB feed this a.m contained video of Budweiser's new foals, all of whom have been docked. Does anyone else get annoyed at the gushy outpourings at every Bud clip/commercial but I've yet to see a comment about the docked tails, a practice banned in this country (with possible prison sentence) in 1949?
		
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I have been working for months now asking Anheuser-Busch to stop docking the tails. I call every single day. I post emails to them every single day....it takes patience and stubborness to get through to people, however...the petition I also have circulating is gaining support.

Docking is a cruel, brutal practice....I hope to, one day, see it banned world-wide.

Here is the link to my petition:  https://www.change.org/p/carlos-bri...utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink


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## Enfys (7 December 2015)

Cortez said:



			There is ignorance and cruelty towards animals in every country, and there are far worse things than docking going on in the horse world, believe me. There is no reason to dock horses (or dogs) other than fashion, but as earlier poster points out, it is not illegal in the USA and really none of our business.
		
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This.


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## Enfys (7 December 2015)

briarlee said:



			I have been working for months now asking Anheuser-Busch to stop docking the tails. I call every single day. I post emails to them every single day....it takes patience and stubborness to get through to people, however...the petition I also have circulating is gaining support.

Docking is a cruel, brutal practice....I hope to, one day, see it banned world-wide.

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I admire your persistence, perhaps you can do the same against Soring for Big Lick horses, that, in my opinion, is a hundred times worse than docking.


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## stormox (7 December 2015)

Equi, gundogs do not go down holes!!!! The reason spaniels are  docked is because they wreck the end of the tail going through heavy cover, especially springers and cockers as the tail constantly wagging!


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## LHIS (7 December 2015)

equi said:



			It's the same as gun dogs getting it done to make sure their tails don't get broke being pulled out of holes.
		
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I don't think this is correct. Gun dogs don't go down holes. The terriers do. I have a Patterdale terrier with a docked tail. She isn't a working dog but was bred from working stock and was intended for use as that. 

As others have said if it's not illegal in the US then there's not a right lot UK keyboard warriors can do about it. And as others have suggested there's a lot worse that goes on.


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## chillipup (7 December 2015)

briarlee said:



			I have been working for months now asking Anheuser-Busch to stop docking the tails. I call every single day. I post emails to them every single day....it takes patience and stubborness to get through to people, however...the petition I also have circulating is gaining support.

Docking is a cruel, brutal practice....I hope to, one day, see it banned world-wide.

Here is the link to my petition:  https://www.change.org/p/carlos-bri...utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink

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Happy to sign briarlee. 

The UK stopped this totally unnecessary, and horrible practice, way back in 1949 (The docking and nicking of Horses Act 1949) Just because this happens in other countries, doesn't mean we cannot try to stop it. Admittedly, there are many  cruel practices inflicted all around our world, not just to equines but to numerous species, including our very own (some of which may well be far worse than docking) However, If we all refused to speak out to stop or make to change it, just imagine where we would be now.


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## laura_nash (7 December 2015)

LHIS said:



			As others have said if it's not illegal in the US then there's not a right lot UK keyboard warriors can do about it. And as others have suggested there's a lot worse that goes on.
		
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I have signed the petition and I don't understand this attitude.  Just because it isn't illegal doesn't mean its right and "keyboard warriors" (whichever country they are in) can do quite a bit when the practice is directly connected to the PR of a global brand.  There is a lot worse that goes on, but a lot of that is very difficult to resolve because the people doing it couldn't care less what anyone else thinks - that is not the case here!


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## Red-1 (7 December 2015)

Cortez said:



			Result of a too-tight tail bandage, actually. His very lovely former owner brought him from Spain to UK and thought she was doing a good thing.......delayed by weather at the ferry, the poor lad spent 5 days with a tight tail bandage and as a result lost all but the top 3 inches of his tail.
		
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... Surely the horse was not on a lorry for 5 days? Did they not offload to overnight? If not, I would not have thought that 5 days confined in a box was legal? 

Surely from Spain to England there would be a night stopover? Especially with a delay? Very perplexed.


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## Orangehorse (7 December 2015)

I can remember a local pony taking part in gymkanas that had been docked.  I wonder how old it was?  It was a vanner type and a very good show jumper.


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## laura_nash (7 December 2015)

Red-1 said:



			... Surely the horse was not on a lorry for 5 days? Did they not offload to overnight? If not, I would not have thought that 5 days confined in a box was legal? 

Surely from Spain to England there would be a night stopover? Especially with a delay? Very perplexed.
		
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Presumably they didn't remember / didn't notice the tail bandage...


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## ester (7 December 2015)

Red-1 said:



			... Surely the horse was not on a lorry for 5 days? Did they not offload to overnight? If not, I would not have thought that 5 days confined in a box was legal? 

Surely from Spain to England there would be a night stopover? Especially with a delay? Very perplexed.
		
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Probably was, doesn't mean the transporter undressed it...


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## ycbm (7 December 2015)

Signed. Have not bought Budweiser since I found out and will not buy again until they stop. We used to be regular drinkers of Bud.


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## Knockadoon (7 December 2015)

Attitudes in the US seem to be a bit different. I see this also with ear cropping. Seems to be very widespread in great Danes and dobermans. Have yet to see one in a film with full ears. Yet they banned equine slaughter without thinking it out properly. A mixture between not caring and bleeding heart impracticality.


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## ycbm (7 December 2015)

LHIS said:



			As others have said if it's not illegal in the US then there's not a right lot UK keyboard warriors can do about it. And as others have suggested there's a lot worse that goes on.
		
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We can stop buying the beer and stop our partners from buying the beer. That will hit their UK sales hard, and they'll stop using docked Clydies.   Did you see what happened to the French wine industry when they refused to take our beef when the EU said it was safe? Thousands of us stopped buying French wine, and it has never recovered its market share because we all discovered how good the others were.

Our Christmas beer this year is Italian.It would have been Budweiser.


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