# Please help me to narrow down a suitable eventer / jumping stallion.



## JB Eventer (10 January 2013)

I am hoping to get some input and advice to help me narrow down a suitable stallion to breed my 15hh Connemara X Welsh mare to. I have spent a ton of time trowelling the web looking at various stallions but still feel a bit lost. 

My mare has a suspensory leg injury and I want to give her a long time off to heal as she is only 5 years old. I would like to breed her this year to give me a competition horse in the future. What I want to achieve from the foal:

1. Height. I would like the foal to be at least 15.2hh.
2. Stamina, enough for eventing.
3. I would ideally like an eventing horse. However, many of the stallions I have looked at are great cross country but their record shows that they have fences down in the showjumping quite often. Given that there are not that many eventing competitions where I live each year I would also want the horse to be quite a good and clean show jumper as I will likely do quite a bit of that at other times during the year. 
4. Straight leg action to compensate for my mares higher knees. Good movement / paces.
5. Very good confirmation overall.
6. A good mind and temperament. I am an amateur rider and do not want to produce anything that is too sharp to deal with in the future.
7. My mare has a great temperament and is a quick learner.
8. I need a stallion that has frozen seamen available for AI.
9. Wondering if I am best to stick with a thoroughbred cross or is anyone has experience with other Connemara x that produce good eventer / show jumpers?
10. I am also a bit wary of the chestnut stallions as I am not too keen to get a chestnut filly.  
11. My mare has 7 & ¾ bone at 15hh. Photo of her attached or at http://www.flickr.com/photos/92060561@N05/8367877811/in/photostream







On the eventing side I have looked at and narrowed down to the following stallions in no real order:

1. Jumbo (seems to have produced eventers and show jumpers but wonder if the foal might be a bit heavy?)
2. Stormhill Miller
3. Up With The Lark
4. Mr. Big Cat
5. Handsome Stranger
6. Honour Cruise
7. Wickstead Didgeridoo
8. Brief Encounter
9. Primitive Faerie Tale
10. Kings Composser
11. Primitive Academy
12. Wish Upon a Star
13. Weston Justice 

Any thoughts on the above list?

I do not know the show jumping stallions too well but am open to considering a stallion that produces good jumpers / eventers if you have suggestions to look at that would match well with my mare. I would appreciate input.


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## DollyDolls (10 January 2013)

Think about greenbank harlequin.  He started in eventing, and then went into SJ.  He's very careful, compact and a lovely horse.
Only available via frozen semen now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0CJkmaneX4

http://www.freewebs.com/foxways/

I know it's not on your list, but may fit the bill.


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## SaharaS (11 January 2013)

I have a Brief Encounter 4yo homebred, really lovely can't fault him nd turning into a very nice young man..Jumbo (Brief Encounters Dad) I think you would struggle, I believe he stopped covering about 3 years ago??


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## amy_b (11 January 2013)

Jumbo is still in action but the mare has to go to Grafham. 

Wickstead didgeridoo is very nice, also look up puissance, he has fantastic eventers out there. 
What level are you hoping to compete at? Up to nov/int or above? If it is is above then I would rule out anything that isn't TB or at least 75%


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## millitiger (11 January 2013)

With your mares breeding and size I Would want to go for a tb stallion.

As it is her first foal (I'm guessing?) I would want a proven stallion who has stock on the floor already, doing what you want your foal to do.

What sort of level do you want to aim at competing and is the competition side the main aim or more so, a nice horse to enjoy and train with lower level competing as well?

The one on your list that I would be more inclined to look at is Weston Justice as he fits everything I would want above, but it really depends on what you are aiming to produce


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## Thistle (11 January 2013)

millitiger said:



			With your mares breeding and size I Would want to go for a tb stallion.

As it is her first foal (I'm guessing?) I would want a proven stallion who has stock on the floor already, doing what you want your foal to do.

What sort of level do you want to aim at competing and is the competition side the main aim or more so, a nice horse to enjoy and train with lower level competing as well?

The one on your list that I would be more inclined to look at is Weston Justice as he fits everything I would want above, but it really depends on what you are aiming to produce 

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Ditto this, Kings Composer is a nice compact TB stallion too.

I used Future Illusion (Fleetwater Opposition) on my Newfie x Sec D mare.

I would limit your search to the smaller stallions as your mare is only 15hh and a maiden. 

Certainly nothing over 16.1. (My personal choice, just prefer to be safe)


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## etaylor (11 January 2013)

I have a very similar mare who is connemara x ISH and I have decided to go with a TB stallion as she already has quite a mix and it would be a bit of a lottery what I could end up with from a part bred stallion.  I have considered Groomsbridge May I and One More Tiger.  I would have used Weston Justice but have one by him already and another on the way and wanted to try something different!  Also Revolution might be worth looking - not too big.


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## cundlegreen (11 January 2013)

KC in the flesh. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iUa0BjKAks
He's a "butty" TB, with very good feet. I've now got two here by him, both very easy, and with good temperaments.


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## ihatework (11 January 2013)

I'd say you want to stick to TB too. My suggestion would be revolution. From your list above my favourite would be Weston justice


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## JB Eventer (11 January 2013)

Thanks you all very much for your input to date on this question. It is exciting yet daunting to decide! I do agree and feel confirmation that going with a proven TB sire is the best way to move forward. I had a horse several years ago that we did not know his full breeding but he was a Connemara x TB and the best horse I ever had. Won PC eventing area trials for Weston Park, went to UK top ten HOYS working hunter championships, show jumped great and just would do everything. 

I would like this foal to be able to go up to at least intermediate eventing and show jump to at least 3ft 9" but also look nice for the hunter ring. Really I love to be an all-rounder rider, as I enjoy most types of competition. 

Sahara The Red Nosed Reindeer  do you have any photos of your 4 year old gelding by Brief Encounter? What type of mare did you use for him? From the website it appears that Jumbo has frozen available but that information might be out of date now. 

In relation to Puissance, is he with Ballyquirke Stud? Their website doesnt seem to work. Looks like a nice type but I think that I read that his offspring can be rather sharp? 

Weston Justice does look like a good possibility and I will review him further again. Any thoughts on his temperament? I hope perhaps unusually that the foal takes a bit of temperament from my mare. She is loved by all at the stable and really is a lovely character but clever too. I really adore her and am somewhat heartbroken about her leg injury. 

Kings Composer, he is new to me to look at. What is his temperament like? What appears to be good with him is that I might get a good all-rounder prospect with him. I cannot see a lot of information about his proven competition career? I do like a beautiful horse and he might help to give that with reference to good show horses too.

Revolution looks nice but I think that a good point is made that given this is my first foal with my mare that I might be better to stick with a stallion that is more proven, looks like a lovely type though. 

In relation to Groomsbridge May at just 15.2hh I would be a bit nervous that I end up with a foal that is just a bit too small. With One More Tiger, I know that I already looked into him and he is 16.3hh and as mentioned on the other side by be a bit big for a first foal. I must have had another thought too on him as I did look and ruled him out for some reason.

Thanks again and I am still keen to becoming aware of some that I havent looked at yet or simply do not know about! Does anyone put a lot of research into the success rate of the stallion by AI? Also the filly to colt offspring ratio? I wonder about this too but by the time I take every single ratio and aspect into account that I am reviewing I am worried that I end up ruling every prospect out!


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## TheMule (11 January 2013)

We have a Weston Justice mare and she is a lovely careful jumper, rarely has a pole. She is very much her mother's daughter, taking after her in every way except conformation, which WJ improved on very nicely

I'm really liking Britannia's Mail at the moment- if dam line is important then it doesn't get much better, and to have the high % TB from sj lines on the sire side is very desirable as I also want something that could event and sj. He's a super sort, about 16hh and a sweet horse


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## etaylor (11 January 2013)

I've got a yearling filly by Weston Justice. Temperament very much like her dam although possibly a little more bold. He definitely improved a couple of small confirmation faults.  The mare has been put back in foal to him and caught first time with chilled semen if that helps.  I'd definitely consider him he has some progeny going up the grades now and they all seem to be good show jumpers as well as bold xc.


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## eventrider23 (11 January 2013)

Groomsbridge May Is def not one to be dismissed. He may only be 15.2 himself but he throws larger than himself a lot of the time and I know has progeny around 16.3.


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## Domirati (11 January 2013)

I have a 5 year old by Up With The Lark.  Nice horse, generally well behaved, very good looking. Very orange! Easy to do. Very nice to ride.  Planning for event career with my daughter.


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## JB Eventer (11 January 2013)

Thanks everyone. This is all really very helpful. I am so excited about breeding my mare. I will hopefully get narrowed down here soon and get booked. I am going to Badminton Horse Trials this year and see they have the stallion parade planned. I just feel that would be leaving everything too late to get organized for this year but will still be really interested to see the stallions that are presented there.


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## Blueski (11 January 2013)

Another vote for King, I have a lovely 20 month old gelding by him.  My boy has an amazing temperament, very easy and bold.  I was trying to breed an all rounder / lower level eventer for myself and am very happy with the outcome.  But King also had a son competing at the Olympics for Brazil so his offspring out there doing the business!  and King himself show jumped I believe!


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## seabsicuit2 (11 January 2013)

What you need to look at is what each stallion is producing and how they stamp their stock. Do they improve the mares conformation? And also does the stallion have a good motherline. A lot of stallions in the UK have no motherline( I. E was the mother, grandmother, mothers siblings, aunts , uncles etc successfull in sport) without a motherline I reckon you statisically halve the chances of the resulting foal being a performance horse. Especially in the cases where a lot of us are breeding from mares that have no motherline either . 

Agree in your case to go for a pure thoroughbred or a high % TB in a stallion. Groomsbridge May I is a fantastic mare improver and really adds super quality& movement  and most of all easy biddable temperament . Loads of his stock are over 16 hands, from smaller mares I think. 
Also look at Take it 2 the limit, he is nearly full TB, 7/8 thoroughbred and he does not improve on his mare's conformation so well, but he does inject a very willing, bold temperament and great athleticsm. Plus he has a tiny pool of stock and a high % of them have been in the top finishers at the 4 and 5 yr old championships , so he has a very high strike rate with his progeny . his own eventing results are excellent,  and his mother produced a string of international eventers with different sires.


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## JB Eventer (11 January 2013)

I would agree that the dam line is also important when deciding. When you look at some of the future eventers being bred, the grand lines on both sides in some cases are amazing and often these do well at the upper levels. I notice that Revolution is being bred to some advance eventer mares, it will be interesting to see how they progress in the future. In the case of my mare it is less precise in what I might expect to get!


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## Nicnac (11 January 2013)

Always fancied Power Blade at Harthill

BTW OP - your post gave me a giggle "Frozen Seamen"


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## volatis (11 January 2013)

From your list, I like Weston justice. My mare had two by him and the now 2yo filly should be in the show ring as she is so nicely made, and retaining a lot of quality, but she is destined to go eventing. the stud are thrilled with her and she is actually very chilled and easy to do. The full sister is looking to also have the same very correct conformation and plenty of quality. Weston Justice is also from a very good motherline that is proven in the eventing field.
I like Chiron for my own eventing mare but is quite little made and although his first crop of foals look to have the improvement I want in my mare he is probably too unproven for what you want.
It would be worth you go to the stallion show a Addington in a few weeks time and seeing if you like the look of some of the more modern stamps of show jumpers as well as the eventing types


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## stoneybroke (11 January 2013)

Well from your let the 2 I have most experience with r BRIEF ENCOUNTER and WISH UPON A STAR. My first BEs r 6 this time and so trainable and talented. The first WUAS youngster will be out doing 4yr olds this yr and r incredibly beautiful. I have mares due to them again this yr. Future Illusions r lovely models too. Good luck and make sure u see plenty of progeny


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## Aredis (12 January 2013)

Quite a list, perhaps you would also like to look at Jaguar Mail, he will give you speed, stamina, height and no questions about the jump. Expecting our second JM foal this year following great success with the first who is now startng under saddle.  I also like Primitive Proposal, Power Blade, Dollar du Murier, Classic Primitive and Wish Upon a Star.

Our youngsters by Jaguar Mail, Power Blade and Wish Upon a Star all have super friendly temperaments and have been easy to handle and are easy to train.


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## no_no_nanette (12 January 2013)

If you are able to make it to the SSGB at Addington on the 2nd and 3rd February you should see a number of the stallions mentioned there - the Harthill boys are certainly going, and Weston Justice might be there?  Some of the SJ stallions are also dual purpose - Brendon Stud's Caretino Glory, for instance, who has youngsters doing incredibly well in the SJ ring now but some of his stock are also beginning to appear as successful eventers.


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## cundlegreen (12 January 2013)

Blueski said:



			Another vote for King, I have a lovely 20 month old gelding by him.  My boy has an amazing temperament, very easy and bold.  I was trying to breed an all rounder / lower level eventer for myself and am very happy with the outcome.  But King also had a son competing at the Olympics for Brazil so his offspring out there doing the business!  and King himself show jumped I believe!
		
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KC was himself a Grade B show jumper, competed by an amateur. He has at least one Grade A offspring as well as a lot of very good show horses and eventers. Angela Wise sent me a lot of pictures of his offspring jumping, and they all tucked up well in front and used their shoulders and back correctly. As I was trying to breed an eventer, this was what attracted me to him. His fertility is excellent as well. My maiden three year old took at her first covering.


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## LEC (12 January 2013)

What is KC stock doing eventing and how many have gone up the levels. His oldest progeny have been out and about a long time and they are not doing anything terribly special. Why not? 

Some of his oldest stock are 14/15 now and all seem to get to Intermediate and die a death with either not appearing again or dropping down the levels. Some have had very good jockeys as well. 

I do not understand why people would recommend unproven stallions in competition or bloodlines when the stated desire is to go Intermediate? Surely breeding is a big enough lottery already?

There are loads of TB stallions which are proven and have stock on the ground doing the job. I saw a stunning Stormhill Miller horse at Goresbridge. It was a 4yo and looked sharp but I just loved everything about it.


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## eventrider23 (12 January 2013)

I haven't had any KC foals myself LEC but whilst there may not be tonnes, he did have a son in the eventing section of the Olympics this year who did respectably....not at all bad for a horse who had very very little experience at top level....same horse went on to compete 4 star this autumn.

Wickstead Didgeridoo certainly seems a trainable sort and is doing the job well. No idea on progeny.

Stormhill Miller/other Harthill stallions are all very well proven and not to be ignored.

Weston Justice is a fabulous horse. More than proven himself and all his progeny now starting under saddle are eventing very successfully for young horses.

KC is I believe the maternal brother or something like that to Devils Jump. (correct me if I'm wrong here as can't 100% remember).


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## falaise (13 January 2013)

Jumbo is only doing AI now. I have a stunning foal/now yearling by Jumbo out of my TB mare but he is big with huge knees and hocks so prob not ideal for a maiden smallish mare. However when we went to see Jumbo their other stallion, Jigilo, is gorgeous, smaller and lighter with a gorgeous temperament and very handsome. He has competed to Advanced and as of yet hasn't had any ginger babies (something I asked about as I personally don't like chestnuts!). Just to add to your choices!!


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## Blueski (13 January 2013)

LEC said:



			all seem to get to Intermediate
		
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Sorry, I must have misunderstood, I thought the OP said that's where she wanted to be...

Just pointing out that temperament wise and conformation wise, I am very happy with my King baby his ability remains to be seen.  In all honesty I have no desire to go higher than novice because the jumps scare the bejesus out of me


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## crazycoloured (13 January 2013)

i like the look of wickstead digeridoo,looks a nice sort...


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## katastrophykat (14 January 2013)

I had a TB mare sired by puissance- lovely mare, nicely put together but with a common head and she did have a bit of a mean streak- and stubborn... As likely to go under a fence as over. Conversely, her half siblings by different stallions (one by tragic role) were just as nicely built but with sweet temperaments and a nicer head. Think my old mare was in a minority though- most of what I've heard from others by puissance were lovely! 

Where are you based OP?


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## cundlegreen (14 January 2013)

LEC said:



			What is KC stock doing eventing and how many have gone up the levels. His oldest progeny have been out and about a long time and they are not doing anything terribly special. Why not? 

.
		
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Eleda All Black jumped clear XC at the Olympics. Not too bad!!!!


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## koeffee (14 January 2013)

Well im a HUGE Craig fan, he stands with Bellegrace equine on facebook, lovely horse, will be out eventing properly this year, awesome horse, also stand Elthuder. cant go wrong. both have the movement and the jump, and craig is a x country machine


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## Sportznight (14 January 2013)

LEC said:



			What is KC stock doing eventing and how many have gone up the levels. His oldest progeny have been out and about a long time and they are not doing anything terribly special. Why not?
		
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Well apart from the obvious, in Eleda All Black, as already mentioned, perhaps it's because his offspring have such fantastic temperaments, that it is predominantly amateurs that ride/produce them and they are perhaps limited by their jockeys capabilities/budget/aspirations.  Similar things happen with many stallions - not everyone wants a world beater.  

From a personal POV, the KC that I bred, is being brought on slowly, partly due to late development and partly because I don't believe in pushing a young horse.  We were specific in not doing young horse classes with him.  He has a wonderfully bold and kind temperament, a quick, yet trainable brain and is very athletic and LOVES his jumping, yet is Mr Cool for the dressage.


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## ihatework (14 January 2013)

I ended up selling my Kings Composer. He was a reasonable looking horse, showed good technique over a fence, had a bit of scope. But by god was he thick and backwards, couldn't gallop to save his life and didn't move well enough for pure dressage. 

All credit to Eleda All Black, he's plugged away and done well, but I have heard him described as an 'agricultural lump' by someone very close to him! I remember the phrase at it described my lad pretty well too. I wouldn't have another.


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## Blueski (14 January 2013)

ihatework said:



			I wouldn't have another.
		
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I'd have 10


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## Sportznight (14 January 2013)

Blueski said:



			I'd have 10 

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Same!  Mine is awesome - I guess *shock horror* the mare has some input too....


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## JB Eventer (15 January 2013)

Thanks for all of the input on my question. Most helpful to me. Craig looks like a nice boy but I think that I need to go for pretty much full TB to lighten up the foal for eventing. I think a good point was raised that given that my mare does not have the proven lines of an advance event horse mare that it is important for me to look for a stallion that has strong sire and dam lines, to at least up the balance to 50% proven in the foals bloodline! It is most likely that I will move forward with Weston Justice, my slight hesitation is that he seems to throw a lot of fillies. That is not necessarily a bad thing just that I have worked with more geldings than mares.

I am going to get the vet to come and assess my mare for breeding and go from there. It is so exciting but I need to remind myself frequently that it will be several years before I will have a horse old enough to start to break and compete but I am sure it will be a rewarding experience!


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## Blueski (16 January 2013)

Good luck JB Eventer  let us know how you get on!


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## volatis (16 January 2013)

All very ecxciting for you. Best of luck


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## jdrewery (28 January 2013)

Can't believe nobody has suggested BROADSTONE LANDMARK , he is himself a intermediate eventer and champion graded stallion. He has produced top winners i nall disciplines including international grade a showjumper BROADSTONE LADIES MAN and of course NZB LAND VISION that won badminton 2011 with mark todd. Evan though he is danish warmblood, he is very tb like and has a very proven pedigree on both sides and has frozen semen too!


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## irishdraft (28 January 2013)

My friend has bred two mares by Weston Justice, she got a  chestnut 16hh, now rising 7 going novice this year, bold confident mare but a bit of a thug on the ground.This was out of a 15.2 connemara x The other is 4 just been backed lightly built 15 hh bay out of a warmblood, has started jumping proving bold, both of the mares are with a proffesional eventer.  The 15.2 connie x has been put back in foal to Revolution to get a smaller lighter foal than weston justice threw, hopefully !.


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## JB Eventer (28 January 2013)

That is interesting to know. More mares  it seems that Weston Justice does not throw too many geldings. I still think that I am going with him though, I think TB will be best to add the stamina and lightness. I have my mare booked into the vet clinic for AI in a couple of months. If you have any photos of the mare out of the connemara x I'd love to see them.


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## koeffee (28 January 2013)

jdrewery said:



			Can't believe nobody has suggested BROADSTONE LANDMARK , he is himself a intermediate eventer and champion graded stallion. He has produced top winners i nall disciplines including international grade a showjumper BROADSTONE LADIES MAN and of course NZB LAND VISION that won badminton 2011 with mark todd. Evan though he is danish warmblood, he is very tb like and has a very proven pedigree on both sides and has frozen semen too!
		
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I had a lovely landmark mare but he only covers natural nowadays, think he is getting on now too.


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## jdrewery (30 January 2013)

he is AI fresh or there is quality frozen semen available, my mares i nfoa lto him due in 6weeks


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## JB Eventer (5 April 2013)

Update - My mare was bred to Weston Justice by AI on Wednesday. Now the waiting game to see if she conceives! The vet said that the semen was of reasonable quality for frozen. It is amazing how quickly you can second guess your choice of sire, especially when Eventing and H&H recently published event breeding articles. Now waiting for next ultrasound test results!


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## Beau jangles (6 April 2013)

I've just bought a foal who's grandsire is wish upon a star , my foals sure is the most gentlest stallion ever the owners 14 year old sister even rides him and the stallion is just rising 4 , seems to me that wish upon a star gives good natured offspring which to me is the most important thing of all !!


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