# Equine Clothing That Closely Resembled Police Uniform



## Hants_Horsewatch (6 February 2013)

A clarification statement has been issued to the equine press in respect of high visibility clothing that closely resembles Police Uniform from 
Rod Hansen, Assistant Chief Constable
ACPO Lead for Mounted Policing

Over recent months a number of examples of high visibility equine apparel have been brought to my attention. These articles have caused concern to the police on the grounds that individuals wearing them are likely to be mistaken for being a police officer due to the design closely resembling police uniform.  I have therefore sought advice on the legality of these designs, which has identified the following as the three main characteristics of police high visibility uniform:

Wording &#8211; police high visibility clothing typically has POLICE printed as a contrasting block of letters prominently displayed to the rear and/or front.

Colour - police high visibility uniform is universally yellow.

Chequered Banding &#8211; police high visibility clothing commonly uses blue/silver chequered banding, this colour being standardised by international convention.

The conclusion of these enquiries is that any item of clothing that has been manufactured to match these characteristics of police uniform is at risk of contravening legislation, namely Section 90 Police Act 1996.  The ultimate decision about the legitimacy of any individual product is yet to be defined conclusively by any court, but the legal standard as enacted is an objective measure of whether the clothing worn by an individual, and/or their horse, would give the impression that that rider is a police officer when they are not.  As such, any wording displayed on clothing which is similar in appearance to &#8216;POLICE&#8217; (i.e. in a shape, format or font used on police uniform), even if is spelt differently, would leave the wearer at risk of breaching the law, particularly if the other characteristics are present.  

It is apparent that this issue has been subject to considerable debate through equine forums and I wish therefore to clarify the position from the police&#8217;s perspective for your readers so that they appreciate the risks associated with wearing such products and/or designs.  I would also like to take this opportunity to confirm that whilst the police would support any work to make the roads safer, we do not endorse or recommend any specific high visibility products or manufacturer, nor have we done so.


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## Kat (6 February 2013)

Has there been any confirmation that reports of officers visiting retailers and advising them that the products contravene the law are genuine/false?


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## MiJodsR2BlinkinTite (6 February 2013)

OK........ so expect a load of "Polite" "never-worn" or "nearly new" stuff to rapidly appear on E-bay then!


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## Luci07 (7 February 2013)

I re read that a couple of times. It looks as if you have some writing on that looks as if it could read police, coupled with the other characteristics (colour) could mean you are possibly in breach. However, as my hi viz yellow jacket has neither the writing nor the bands I will continue to use it. It has a massive impact on making drivers slow down so I am keeping it!


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## catkin (7 February 2013)

Please clarify that the wearing of yellow-coloured hi-viz clothing on horse and rider, without the wording is still OK. Yellow is a very common colour for PPE issue in other professions and is also the colour most available in affordable hi-viz for the general public.
Even if we have other colour hi-viz clothing, such as I do, there are some weather conditions where yellow is considered the most easily visible, and therefore the most suitable for safety.


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## Elsiecat (7 February 2013)

I've said it before and will say it again.
I am just as much breaking the 'law' (there isn't any case law in place against POLITE clothing) as anyone going to a fancy dress party as a copper. Often these fancy dress outfits have the actual word 'POLICE' written on them.

As long as me and the ned don't turn up at a football game and try and copy the actual police then I'm not impersonating either.

It's fancy dress on horse back and I won't be getting arrested for it. It wouldn't hold up in court. The CPS wouldn't bother. The Police can't just decide an item of clothing is illegal (or they'd have banned hoodies, balaclavas, burkas where only the eyes are visable etc) these things have to go through parliament and a new law be made.

Going for a hack later with me stuff on


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## EstherYoung (7 February 2013)

I saw my mate with the tack shop last night. Basically what happened is this:
- Copper stops one of her customers wearing a 'polite' tabard, tells customer that there is new police guidance which says that a person wearing such a tabard could be deemed to be breaking the law and she was told to go home and swap it for another tabard. Copper also asked customer where she bought it.
- On finding out that she bought the tabard from my mate, copper then goes round to my mate's tack shop and explains to her that she shouldn't be selling them. He also gives her a copy of the ACPO police guidance (which my friend bought with her last night for me to see). It was all very amicable and the copper was acting in an 'advisory' capacity rather than reading the riot act, but my friend now has a load of tabards that she doesn't know what to do with.


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## Piglet (7 February 2013)

Just wear pink hi-viz - no misunderstanding then - simples!!!!


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## PrincessMadeleine (7 February 2013)

Yellow Hi-viz is fine, just not with police wording / blue and silver on as well! Very annoying as I was just about to try and get some as a friend of mine who wears it says it has made an amazing difference with drivers!


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## Wheelchair (7 February 2013)

I run a livery yard. I purchased one of these tabards for the lady who works for me as I had received feedback from other liveries as to how successful these items were.

I would make an educated guess that the majority of complaints received were probably attributable to anti-horse motorists who probably had the shock of their lives when speeding past a horse and its owner wearing one of these tabards and it probably caught them out big time.

I say to EVERYONE who has one or considers buying one, DO IT AND DONT STOP WEARING IT!!!!! If it slows motorists down then it's job well done.

Do the police entertain Section 90 of the Police Act 1996 when it comes to recovery, security and burglar alarm companies whose cars/vans are bedecked in similarly designed chequers and colours? No I hear you answer.

Respect for horse riders on the roads nowadays is at an all time low so if anything makes horse people's lives easier then have the balls to use it. 

But also could horse rider's please take this on board, an awful lot of you seem to have forgotten your manners, please remember to clearly thank motorists for slowly down, how can you expect sympathy from your fellow road users if you forget your manners!

Just remember if we all stick together and persevere with these tabards it does send a message - that we are not to be walked all over!


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## Tiffany (7 February 2013)

For anyone who thinks Polite reads Police there's always spec savers


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## Pale Rider (7 February 2013)

Here's a clue, different words.

Another load of nonsense from senior Police.


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## Elsiecat (7 February 2013)

Pale Rider said:



			Here's a clue, different words.

Another load of nonsense from senior Police.
		
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*Splutters out drink*
Erm, I think I've just agreed with you on something


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## Goldenstar (7 February 2013)

Elsiecat said:



			*Splutters out drink*
Erm, I think I've just agreed with you on something 

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Go and lie in a darkened room.


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## Elsiecat (7 February 2013)

Goldenstar said:



			Go and lie in a darkened room.
		
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I can't. I've lost use of my limbs. The shock is paralysing!!!


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## Pale Rider (7 February 2013)

Elsiecat said:



			*Splutters out drink*
Erm, I think I've just agreed with you on something 

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lol.


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## braindead (8 February 2013)

Some pratt in the Daily Fail is complaining about Hi-Viz being seen everywhere, even the police horses in central London are wearing it. Quote "If that wasnt bad enough, their horses were wearing hi-viz jackets, too. You couldnt make it up. Who cant spot a ruddy great horse in broad daylight in Central London?"

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2275260/Since-compulsory-wear-hi-viz.html#ixzz2KI4tGSdT 
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Shame that serious numbers of drivers fail to see horses and riders on the road and that the horse related traffic incidents are increasing. I wonder how many more there would be if riders didn't wear Hi-viz?


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## Onyxia (8 February 2013)

Elsiecat said:



			I've said it before and will say it again.
I am just as much breaking the 'law' (there isn't any case law in place against POLITE clothing) as anyone going to a fancy dress party as a copper. Often these fancy dress outfits have the actual word 'POLICE' written on them.

As long as me and the ned don't turn up at a football game and try and copy the actual police then I'm not impersonating either.

It's fancy dress on horse back and I won't be getting arrested for it. It wouldn't hold up in court. The CPS wouldn't bother. The Police can't just decide an item of clothing is illegal (or they'd have banned hoodies, balaclavas, burkas where only the eyes are visable etc) these things have to go through parliament and a new law be made.

Going for a hack later with me stuff on 

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I agree.
And not wishing to pick on them, but surely the RSPCA uniform which has unquestionably been designed to give a police like authority to it's staff is more in breech of the legislation then a hi viz jacket.
I have seen riders wearing the Polite vests while driving and if you are following the Hiway code's guidance of passing wide and slow it is a doodle to spot the difference. anyway, so the only people who might be fooled are those driving without due care and attention in the first place.


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## Robsonian (8 February 2013)

Rod Hanson is Assistant Chief Constable (ACC), ACPO Lead for Mounted Policing, from Avon and Somerset Police and his is the only letter that I have been able to trace through the internet. The letter was issued on "Association of Chief Police Officers" letterheaded paper but quoting the Avon and Somerset Police Headquarters address, so is this a national issue or just one that has been taken up by Avon and Somerset Police?

My main problems with the contents of his letter, though, are:
1) "Colour". The ACPO letter says "police high visibility uniform is universally yellow". Well, with respect, that's because it is "Personal Protective Equipment" (PPE) so MUST be fluorescent, and yellow is the by far and away the most common fluorescent colour in use (check out construction sites, dockyards, quarries - in fact anywhere were individuals are at higher than normal risk of injury. They will all be wearing fluorescent yellow PPE jackets or tabards - I can't honestly see builders wearing pink!). This is because fluorescent yellow "glows" in low light conditions, including the shadow under trees and buildings, thus making the wearer more visible;
2) "Checkered Banding" - "police high visibility clothing commonly uses blue-silver checkered banding, this being standardised by international convention". The word used is "commonly", not "exclusively", and the reason why silver is used is because it is reflective so is hardly unique to the police (again check out PPE clothing worn on hazardous work sites - they will all have strips of silver reflective material on the jackets/tabards). The silver reflective strips are used because they "shine out" when a light is shone on them - i.e. headlights at dusk;
3) I have checked my local police's mounted police website (West Yorkshire Police) and there are photographs showing mounted police a) on general duty, b) in dress uniform, and c) on duty outside football stadia. No sign of ANY chequered pattern on the "on duty" yellow jackets/tabards or the football stadia photos and, in fact, when on duty in potentially hazardous situations (i.e. outside football stadia, riots, etc.), mounted police in West Yorkshire don't appear to wear yellow PPE on all occasions in any case (black riot gear and riot helmets with visors appears more usual - probably because fluorescent PPE would have an officer standing out as a target for the throwing of rocks and petrol bombs). The only chequered pattern I could find was on the helmets of the mounted police in dress uniform.

As such, it would appear that the only thing this Assistant Chief Constable could be expressing concern about is the use of the word "Polite". However, the Equisafety tabard says "Polite" in large letters, then underneath "notice" in small letters, then "Please Slow Down" in the same large font as the "Polite". Police PPE simply says "Police" with the appropriate region noted above in smaller letters (i.e. City of London, or West Yorkshire for example) - there is no other lettering to be seen.

The Equisafety tabard was submitted (as all equipment/clothing to be used as PPE must be) to the British Standards Authority and was approved for use: thus it carries the "CE" kitemark and confirmation that the tabard complies with BS En1150. Wouldn't the BSA have queried the possibility of it being mistaken for a police uniform if they thought that was a serious risk? In any case, the tabard or jacket worn by the police is just one part of a mounted police officer's uniform (the police also wear long boots and spurs - most leisure riders/hackers in my experience don't - and helmets that look more like motorcycle helmets than riding hats). It is probably because the police have had a complaint from a member of the public who doesn't really understand what constitutes "Impersonating a Police Officer" and resented being "obliged" to slow down. Has this ACC responded on a local, then, rather than national level?

Compare the comments in this officer's letter with that issued a couple of years ago by the Chief Constable of the Metropolitan police where he said that the police wouldn't stop a member of the public from wearing the "Polite" tabard as long as there is no indication that the person has attempted to impersonate a police officer. Also check out the press releases and leaflets issued by the police and the Home Office that state that the police take seriously the protection of vulnerable road users such as cyclists, motor cyclists, horse riders and carriage drivers. Surely anything that makes a driver take a second look and, more importantly, slow down is worth supporting.

Other contributors to this forum have also asked if the police intend in future to press charges against "strippers dressed as police officers" for impersonating a police officer (after all, that uniform usually says "Police", not "Polite") and perhaps a police officer could comment on what the difference is between one item of clothing being used to help protect vulnerable road users and the other, far more complete and "authentic", "uniform" being used to make some money and provide a particular form of entertainment? I'd be interested to know.


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## Stumblebum (8 February 2013)

To be fair, I understand that most of the complaints have come from police officers rather than motorists.

The main issue (and what has to be proven by law) is that the person concerned has intent to deceive other persons into believing they are a police officer - this is why people going to fancy dress parties etc don't usually end up getting themselves arrested (unless they are drunk and disorderly or trying to stop the traffic!).

I can't see a Problem with the yellow high viz -even with the chequered band with say, a "please Pass slide and slow " logo, I think the problem is with the wording POLITE. Why polite?? - it's just one word away from POLICE. 

My own personal view is that anything that assists in slowing traffic and ensuring the safety of horse and rider is a good thing.

I guess as a police officer I can wear the stuff and get away with it!!


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## tinafletcher1 (8 February 2013)

we have been wearing these tabards plus the hat cover for a year. We are straight onto a busy main road. We have noticed a huge difference to the speed at which motorist pass. The safety of horse and rider on the road should be paramount. I shall continue to use.


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## Downsrider (9 February 2013)

As far as I am concerned I will continue to wear the Hi Viz Polite jacket, there is no law that says I cant wear this and to be honest we are doing a good service for the police as they cannot be everywhere to sort the motorist out when they decide to speed past our horses and endanger us. This range of horse wear is brilliant it has slowed a lot of drivers down who otherwise could have caused an accident therefore makeing the road safer for both horse and rider...What is wrong with the Police we are helping them for goodness sake Assistant Chief Constable Rod Hansen get real on this issue or perhaps he would like to ride a horse around some of the roads in the UK and see for himself just what dangers we go through with some of the car drivers who hate Horses on the roads. 
He says that he has had a lot of complaints from the Public about this, well I can say where I live the drivers have commened us for wearing the tabbards and they all think it is very good I have never once had a complaint...so where are these moaning people Mr Hansen .????


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## princestar (9 February 2013)

Total rubbish.

Will we be expected to replace all our hi-viz gear so we dont upset a  policeman plod somewhere? 

Dont think the Met Police will be buying our POLITE clothing from us, do you?


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## MochaDun (10 February 2013)

I'm confused as police wear itself with badges taken off is sold legitimately secondhand ex-issue and I've know people buy their good Gore-tex stuff etc to wear not just for riding but for it being good hi-viz stuff for all sorts of outdoor work - OK it doesn't have police wording on it but it still looks very police-like...see below:

http://www.onestopcopshop.co.uk/product.php?productid=145&cat=11&page=1

Is the problem really because it says Polite and people think it looks like Police??!!  The police by taking this stance are putting a small business out of business...


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## Dobermann Girl (11 February 2013)

Since wearing our Polite tabards, Jackets ect, like all replys, motorist have been much more respectful ie quickly hiding their mobiles whilst driving. This happens a lot.. When we have to cross a road junction fast drivers slow down. It is a pity that wearing any type of other tabard does not have the same effect.   I was wearing plain Hi viz last week and a young man kept blowing his horn so I asked him to please stop doing it and got threatened, he was going to "smash my head in". Hard job methinks I'm on a horse with a helmet on and a whip. Also I said the same back to him. Would he have been so aggressive if I had my polite tabard on. I am not going to stop wearing it just because some irate drivers feel they have been fooled. Also must agree with another poster to be polite to motorist that take care passing,we more often than not wave to most drivers.
Being a woman I am sad to say the worst are women drivers.


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## kikadi (11 February 2013)

Hey guys I think this is ridiculous!! Older have managed to increase our own safety through drawing drivers attention. Please sign this e-petition to prevent police being able to prosecute us for wearing these! I need 100,000 signatures so het family and friends signing too  http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/45785


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## Highlands (11 February 2013)

Not a problem , a police person round here is a special event..... They get lost...


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## MaisieMooch (11 February 2013)

For me the main issue with these 'polite' vests is that they do work considerably better than any other vest I have tried. Anything that reduces the speed of a driver is not only beneficial to us and our horses but also to the drivers and potentially their cars. 

I am not impersonating a police officer in any way, shape or form. I am merely trying to maximize my safety, my horses safety and in a roundabout way the safety of the driver concerned.  

I do agree with 'Wheelchair' who mentions that there are a few riders out there who seem to have forgotten how to lift up a hand, nod their heads or even just smile (obviously if they are coming towards you) at a driver who slows down. They do us a massive injustice; the majority of riders are very conscientious. This ignorance gives any driver with a gripe an even bigger reason to continue to drive like an idiot. 

I would also question what is taught to new drivers regarding livestock (in our case horses) on the road. I genuinely do not think that a lot of new drivers are aware of the consequences of driving at speed past not just a horse but also dog walkers, runners or cyclists. 

I was recently out with a friend where we had to go through a fairly long bit of flooded road. After waiting patiently for some cars to go through the flood we started through ourselves. All was fine until halfway through a car over took a waiting car and continued to come along the flooded road towards us. We met knee deep in water!  It was not going fast but the speed was causing a substantial wash and was enough to agitate the horses. I motioned for him to slow down and he waved at me with a smile on his face, I truly believe he thought I was waving!!! 

This is what we are up against.

I do think that a lot of drivers out there genuinely believe that they are slowing down and have no idea what is a safe speed to go past a horse and rider. The wide berth at speed approach that some drivers take is doubly scary at the moment as they tend to end up going through puddles which can alarm even the calmest horse. 60mph to 40mph is not much better! I genuinely believe that the majority of drivers are ignorant to the reality of what could happen if there were to be an accident at the speed that they are travelling. However, this is not an excuse

I digress, my main point is that we are entitled to ride on the road and we should not be penalized for using a product that is only trying to reduce accidents and improve drivers awareness. The 'Polite' tabards do work and unfortunately it is the 'word' resemblance that seems to make a difference. 
What needs to be addressed is the fact that riders from all parts of the UK do have an ongoing issue with drivers. Riders do not feel safe on the road, so why would you be against something that genuinely seems to work. 

This is the first time I have ever posted on a forum or anything like this, but I truly believe that the majority of riders are trying the best they can to be as safe as they can be. I find the ignorance of some drivers beyond understanding.


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## MotherOfChickens (11 February 2013)

I am thrilled that this issue is so important among riders, that it's resulted in so many new forum members.  Welcome!


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## Vintage (12 February 2013)

I agree with others that there are many things out there with the blue/white check banding, not just these tabards.

I do have one, and because of all of this fuss, I'm debating changing the "POLITE" to having some sort of badge on with "PLEASE" if it would possibly lessen the likelihood of having someone mention it.

Saying that, the  POLITE  and in tiny, 'notice' is quite a deliberate attempt at looking like Policewear, though I find it very nit picky.


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## jetman (12 February 2013)

kikadi said:



			Hey guys I think this is ridiculous!! Older have managed to increase our own safety through drawing drivers attention. Please sign this e-petition to prevent police being able to prosecute us for wearing these! I need 100,000 signatures so het family and friends signing too  http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/45785

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Brill idea!! ive shared it on a few pages too  we can help the POLITE keep being POLITE  LOL
what happens once the petition finishes??


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## Sixteen Hands (12 February 2013)

There seem to be many differing views on other threads such as: http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=592504

Be good to keep them all in one place.


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## muff747 (12 February 2013)

In case anyone is into reading the law, here is the Police Act 1996 Sec 90.
The way I read it, you have to be intentionally trying to impersonate a police officer.  All riders are doing is trying to impersonate someone who doesn't want a car to hit them!
90 Impersonation, etc.E+W.
(1)Any person who *with intent to deceive* impersonates a member of a police force or special constable, or makes any statement or does any act calculated falsely to suggest that he is such a member or constable, shall be guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months or to a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale, or to both. .
(2)Any person who, not being a constable, wears any article of police uniform in circumstances where it gives him an appearance so nearly resembling that of a member of a police force *as to be calculated to deceive *shall be guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale. .
(3)Any person who, not being a member of a police force or special constable, has in his possession any article of police uniform shall, *unless he proves that he obtained possession of that article lawfully and has possession of it for a lawful purpose,* be guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 1 on the standard scale. .
(4)In this section .
(a)article of police uniform means any article of uniform or any distinctive badge or mark or document of identification usually issued to members of police forces or special constables, or anything having the appearance of such an article, badge, mark or document, .
[F1(aa)member of a police force includes a member of the British Transport Police Force,] and .
(b)special constable means a special constable appointed for a police area. .

So long as you are not intending to impersonate, carry on wearing your yellow hi-viz.  Polite does not say Police, it's a different word.
Happy bedtime reading


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## lachlanandmarcus (13 February 2013)

The other thing that Rod the Plod seems to have not considered is that mounted police branches are being closed quicker than one can say and there are not many left. If they all disappear, we will be free to wear this stuff since the very act of being on a horse with it on will automatically mean it can't possibly be a police officer!!

One thing tho- in some rural and semi rural areas the police have set up volunteer equine units where riders are trained and outfitted !! And patrol the countryside and report rural crime and dodgy behaviour. Eg in Hertfordshire there is one which my friends belong to. They are allowed to wear the real thing!! Maybe worth considering suggesting to a local force if you are very keen to wear  police stuff and help the community at the same time.

Here's a link to an article about it - look at that lovely police clothing!!
http://www.rsnonline.org.uk/services/mounted-police-combat-rural-crime


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## galaxy (13 February 2013)

Statement from the BHS

http://www.bhs.org.uk/our-charity/p...lothing-that-closely-resembles-police-uniform


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## Elsiecat (6 May 2013)

The comment I wrote on here is in the telegraph today. I'm a celebrity!!!!


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## cremedemonthe (6 May 2013)

Elsiecat said:



			The comment I wrote on here is in the telegraph today. I'm a celebrity!!!!
		
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Hope you asked for Royalties!


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## Lego (6 May 2013)

I wonder if anyone in the team which has decided that 'polite' clothing, and possibly anything yellow  has put any thought into why there is a market for such clothing, and why riders choose to wear it...

Surely if riders are wearing this clothing to attempt to protect themselves from inconsiderate drivers, this should be looked into? Seems to me to be a knee jerk reaction to something, rather than actually looking for the root of the issue. 

These drivers must surely be breaching the highway code by overtaking without appropriate speed or clearance - surely this is more of a problem than riders wearing potentially similar hi-vis safety clothing? Drivers who overtake horses without due care may well be doing the same to other vulnerable road users e.g. cyclists - so they are much more of a real danger (and to the anti-horse section of the public) than a rider wearing a polite tabard!

I think driver education is just not good enough - on the couple of occasions I've been able to talk to someone who has overtaken badly, I have tried to explain why. E.g. lady tried to overtake me on narrow country lane and I knew  pigs would be up against the upcoming gate, so asked her to wait for about 25metres until past pigs - cue much huffing and revving as she 'waited' until I explained why, and pointed out that if the horse spooked as she was overtaking, not only would she be injuring my horse, but 550kg of cob sat on her car would most likely cause significant damage...she got my point!


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## fburton (7 May 2013)

EstherYoung said:



			I saw my mate with the tack shop last night. Basically what happened is this:
- Copper stops one of her customers wearing a 'polite' tabard, tells customer that there is new police guidance which says that a person wearing such a tabard could be deemed to be breaking the law and she was told to go home and swap it for another tabard. Copper also asked customer where she bought it.
- On finding out that she bought the tabard from my mate, copper then goes round to my mate's tack shop and explains to her that she shouldn't be selling them. He also gives her a copy of the ACPO police guidance (which my friend bought with her last night for me to see). It was all very amicable and the copper was acting in an 'advisory' capacity rather than reading the riot act, but my friend now has a load of tabards that she doesn't know what to do with.
		
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Hmm, an amicable jobsworth... Shouldn't he spending his time trying to prevent actual crime??


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## Goldenstar (7 May 2013)

fburton said:



			Hmm, an amicable jobsworth... Shouldn't he spending his time trying to prevent actual crime??
		
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Clearly the area is very very safe and very very rare and therefore we should reduce the number of officers immediatly .


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## DragonSlayer (7 May 2013)

Elsiecat said:



			I've said it before and will say it again.
I am just as much breaking the 'law' (there isn't any case law in place against POLITE clothing) as anyone going to a fancy dress party as a copper. Often these fancy dress outfits have the actual word 'POLICE' written on them.

As long as me and the ned don't turn up at a football game and try and copy the actual police then I'm not impersonating either.

It's fancy dress on horse back and I won't be getting arrested for it. It wouldn't hold up in court. The CPS wouldn't bother. The Police can't just decide an item of clothing is illegal (or they'd have banned hoodies, balaclavas, burkas where only the eyes are visable etc) these things have to go through parliament and a new law be made.

Going for a hack later with me stuff on 

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...orse-riders-told-not-to-wear-polite-bibs.html

Quoted in the Telegraph!


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## DragonSlayer (7 May 2013)

Elsiecat said:



			The comment I wrote on here is in the telegraph today. I'm a celebrity!!!!
		
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Brill, innit?


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## MerrySherryRider (7 May 2013)

galaxy said:



			Statement from the BHS

http://www.bhs.org.uk/our-charity/p...lothing-that-closely-resembles-police-uniform

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Interesting the different responses from the Polite people and V Bandz. 

V Bandz have taken the message on board while Polite seem happy for customers to find themselves in court to clarify guidelines for their product.

Isn't it enough that the police advise against wearing the stuff ? However I haven't seen anyone locally wearing the stuff for ages, so maybe its now a non issue.


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## fburton (7 May 2013)

horserider said:



			Interesting the different responses from the Polite people and V Bandz.
		
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From the Cavalleti website (pinched from another forum):

"You may be aware that the equestrian industry is currently having a bit of a brouhaha over Equisafety's POLITE range of hi vis rider and horse wear.There are letters and comments and magazine articles flying back and forth regarding whether or not this should be worn by riders and whether or not riders are 'impersonating' police officers. There appears to be no definitive answer from anyone: the industry's trade association (BETA); Trading Standards; BETA's legal advisors; the Association of Chief Police Officers - Lead for Mounted Police; Equisafety.... all have commented in one way or another but no-one has stated CLEARLY or categorically that these POLITE products should not be worn. We at Cavaletti have thought long and hard about this. All our personal experience and the comments (albeit anecdotal) we have had from our many customers, is that this is a product that WORKS in slowing down traffic that is passing horses and that can only be a very good thing. So we think that a logical approach and common sense should prevail - riders are not going out with the intention to commit a crime (one of the deciding Police criteria is: You should consider the motive of the defendant where the impersonation involves a threat to the safety of any person, or to property, or is done with a view to financial gain, and then a prosecution should follow. Hardly relevant to a rider out on a hack). Riders are simply trying to protect themselves and their beloved animals, and frankly the safety of all horses on the road is the most important thing to us. Be Safe and Be Seen has long been our mantra and therefore, on this basis, we will continue to provide the POLITE range to customers who want to wear these innovative and effective products."

Eminently sensible response, imo.




			V Bandz have taken the message on board while Polite seem happy for customers to find themselves in court to clarify guidelines for their product.
		
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I'd be astonished if anyone was taken to court over this and believe it would reflect badly on the CPS if they did this. I would gladly donate £100 to a worthy equine charity if this ever happened.




			Isn't it enough that the police advise against wearing the stuff ?
		
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I think need to be more definite one way or another - either state it is prohibited and that people _will_ be prosecuted if they wear POLITE tabards, or say it's okay - not this vaguely threatening stuff.




			However I haven't seen anyone locally wearing the stuff for ages, so maybe its now a non issue.
		
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Hasn't it always been a non issue?!


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## Goldenstar (7 May 2013)

fburton said:



			I think need to be more definite one way or another - either state it is prohibited and that people _will_ be prosecuted if they wear POLITE tabards, or say it's okay - not this vaguely threatening stuff.


Hasn't it always been a non issue?!
		
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The police can't say it's prohibited they don't have the right to go round saying want people can or can't wear .
They can't say how a magistrate will interperate the law there is no case law in that as far as I am aware no rider has been taken to court for impersonating a police officer.
Why are they wasting time on this it's just mad.
I have not sure if I said on this thread or another had three drivers say I looked like the police ( except one did not use a polite name for them ) two thought itbwas amusing one was annoyed .
I was Not wearing polite stuff but can say yes You could say I looked like a mounted police person from a distance so what as you say it's a non issue.


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## MerrySherryRider (8 May 2013)

I can't see why there's confusion. 
Police say- don't wear it. They have other priorities that require police time, plus the considerable cost to the tax payer for prosecuting but the statement issued leaves the door open for an occasion when further action is warranted.


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## Goldenstar (8 May 2013)

horserider said:



			I can't see why there's confusion. 
Police say- don't wear it. They have other priorities that require police time, plus the considerable cost to the tax payer for prosecuting but the statement issued leaves the door open for an occasion when further action is warranted.
		
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The police can't take it on them selves to decide that these tabards are unlawful type of clothing if they want to arrest a rider let them they will look pretty stupid.

Why on earth would anyone amend their behaviour because of this statement  people should take their own choices .
While I agree totally with you about police time and costs but the remedy for that is very much in their own hands it will be the polices choice and the polices choice alone if they arrest someone .


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## vanessarimmer (8 May 2013)

Personally I can't believe the Police have nothing better to do. We got burgled recently and the Police never even bothered to come round. Nice to know if I go hacking in yellow gear with Polite written on it they will be here like a shot to arrest me.


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## Pearlsasinger (8 May 2013)

It is NOT up to the police to dictate what any-one wears when participating in a hobby.  If they really feel that riders are impersonating a police officer, they should arrest someone and let the judicial system decide.  Parliament makes our laws and judges/magistrates interpret them in various circumstances, all the police do is uphold the law - make sure that we obey the law nd arrest us if we don't.  CPS decide whether it is in the public interest to persue a case  - I'd be very surprised if they decided to prosecute  a horserider under those circumstances.


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## DipseyDeb (13 May 2013)

I asked my hubby what the general thoughts were, on this clothing, around his work place......his exact words were 'Yeah right, because that would be the main topic of conversation!' (followed by a snort)  So I do think the Police are a little less concerned than we seem to think they are!!  I do believe there are a few members of the general public that have seemed to have got on their soap boxes about it and are making complaints.  I spent some moments, recently, convincing a woman I work with, that the little patchy pony that trundled passed our work place, was not a police horse......(yes some people really do think they are mounted police!!) She was quite shocked when I explained, and really didn't think it should be allowed!!!


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## MerrySherryRider (13 May 2013)

I'm at a loss to understand the magic of these clothes. If it is argued that no one can mistake a rider, even momentarily, for a police officer, then, what is the advantage over plain Hi Viz ?

 The whole point of the design is surely to fool a motorist into thinking they are about to pass the police. Does the word Polite have some advantage over the phrase 'Please pass wide and slow' ?
 Do the chequered strips shine more brightly than Hi Viz and ordinary reflective strips?
 If this were so, why don't road workers on motorways, who have one of the most dangerous jobs, wear the stuff ?

Logic says, the reason for wearing this range is because it looks like police clothing, therefore imitating a police officer and hoodwinking the public. 

BTW, just wondering where all the one post only new members went ? The thread has an unusual number of them.  

The best way to improve your chances of not being wiped off the road, is to wear Hi Viz, ride a horse you can control, ride in good visibility, on roads that are sensible to ride on and not during rush hour.
 Pretending to be a police officer just further alienates the public, who may feel irked by momentarily being fooled. We depend on other road users for goodwill.


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## holeymoley (13 May 2013)

horserider said:



			I'm at a loss to understand the magic of these clothes. If it is argued that no one can mistake a rider, even momentarily, for a police officer, then, what is the advantage over plain Hi Viz ?

 The whole point of the design is surely to fool a motorist into thinking they are about to pass the police. Does the word Polite have some advantage over the phrase 'Please pass wide and slow' ?
 Do the chequered strips shine more brightly than Hi Viz and ordinary reflective strips?
 If this were so, why don't road workers on motorways, who have one of the most dangerous jobs, wear the stuff ?

Logic says, the reason for wearing this range is because it looks like police clothing, therefore imitating a police officer and hoodwinking the public. 

BTW, just wondering where all the one post only new members went ? The thread has an unusual number of them.  

The best way to improve your chances of not being wiped off the road, is to wear Hi Viz, ride a horse you can control, ride in good visibility, on roads that are sensible to ride on and not during rush hour.
 Pretending to be a police officer just further alienates the public, who may feel irked by momentarily being fooled. We depend on other road users for goodwill.
		
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I like your thinking!


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## MotherOfChickens (13 May 2013)

horserider said:



			I'm at a loss to understand the magic of these clothes. If it is argued that no one can mistake a rider, even momentarily, for a police officer, then, what is the advantage over plain Hi Viz ?

 The whole point of the design is surely to fool a motorist into thinking they are about to pass the police. Does the word Polite have some advantage over the phrase 'Please pass wide and slow' ?
 Do the chequered strips shine more brightly than Hi Viz and ordinary reflective strips?
 If this were so, why don't road workers on motorways, who have one of the most dangerous jobs, wear the stuff ?

Logic says, the reason for wearing this range is because it looks like police clothing, therefore imitating a police officer and hoodwinking the public. 

BTW, just wondering where all the one post only new members went ? The thread has an unusual number of them.  

The best way to improve your chances of not being wiped off the road, is to wear Hi Viz, ride a horse you can control, ride in good visibility, on roads that are sensible to ride on and not during rush hour.
 Pretending to be a police officer just further alienates the public, who may feel irked by momentarily being fooled. We depend on other road users for goodwill.
		
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^^ this.

Actually I won't wear any hi viz that has writing on-I don't want anyone trying to read small print on my back while they are driving! (I do have a tabbard with a caution symbol on it I use for leading youngsters in hand, we are out in the sticks though) The company here has a questionable business manner, their rival company has been somewhat more responsible about the whole thing.

This bit bears repeating *We depend on other road users for goodwill*

We have 5 livery yards in the area, I can count on one hand, the amount of riders that ride appropriately and politely on the roads around me. I am a rider and it hacks me off.


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## fburton (13 May 2013)

horserider said:



			I'm at a loss to understand the magic of these clothes.
		
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And I am at a loss to understand why some (including the police, apparently) think it is an issue at all. The officious letter is concerned with the impersonation side and not anything to do with safety.




			If it is argued that no one can mistake a rider, even momentarily, for a police officer, then, what is the advantage over plain Hi Viz ?
		
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As you go on to say, the whole point of the design is to make think motorist think, if only momentarily and maybe only at a subconscious level, that the police are there - and in that moment, they instinctively jerk themselves out of whatever automatic mode of driving they are in and pay attention to what they are doing. The instant reaction would be to moderate their speed. I know, because I have the same reaction whenever I glimpse a chequered pattern on another vehicle.

Personally, I think the colour and pattern are more important as visual cues to "watch out!" than the word POLITE, which is clearly designed to look like the word POLICE. But if it adds to the effect for some people, then it is probably useful and it would have an advantage over "Please pass wide and slow".

I think one can get too hung up on the deceptive aspect. "Hoodwinking" strikes me as an unnecessarily emotive term. Yes, in a sense it is designed to "fool" motorists - but not to make fools of them. (Otherwise you might as well put "Ha ha, fooled you!" on the front of the tabard.) The imitation is intended only to make roads safer for riders, horses and motorists. It _isn't_ intended to impersonate for any nefarious purpose, which is why I believe the CPS would never bring a prosecution unless there was good evidence that the rider had intended something other than self-protection.

I agree that simply wearing Hi Viz gives the best boost to safety. Let's face it, you'd be bonkers not to. Whether the additional measure of resembling the police gives any extra safety is unproven. Clearly people think it helps. I wouldn't rule out the possibility of some 'alienation' being caused, but would be surprised if it caused a reduction in road safety overall. There will always be some drivers who are irked no matter what. On the other hand, it has been said that some drivers are perfectly okay with the tabards. They don't bother me, as a driver, at all - why would they? What's important, imo, is whether any additional irkage of being "hoodwinked" doesn't make accidents more rather than less likely. If that was shown to be the case, I would change my mind and condemn the tabards in a flash.


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## fburton (13 May 2013)

MotherOfChickens said:



			This bit bears repeating *We depend on other road users for goodwill*

We have 5 livery yards in the area, I can count on one hand, the amount of riders that ride appropriately and politely on the roads around me. I am a rider and it hacks me off.
		
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Agreed. However, I believe the most important factor in obtaining goodwill is how riders _behave_ on the road towards other road users - basic consideration and courtesy - far more than whether or not they happen to be wearing something that resembles police gear.

"I don't want anyone trying to read small print on my back while they are driving!"

That's a fair point.


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## Alec Swan (13 May 2013)

I fail to see whether a tabard says Police or Polite,  is going to make a scrap of difference.  If a car driver is close enough to read the writing,  they will either be going at a sensible speed,  or they wont and the chances are that they'll hit the horse anyway,  regardless of how a notice is written.  The chequer pattern,  on the other hand,  increases distance awareness and makes for perfect sense.

What is _written_ on the back of clothing is of no relevance that I can see.

Alec.


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## Pale Rider (16 May 2013)

Anyone been confused by motorcyclists who resemble Police motorcyclists, a far more common occurance I propose!


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## Sixteen Hands (16 May 2013)

Long term safety improvements are rarely achieved through deceit.


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## fburton (17 May 2013)

I agree and see long term improvements coming mainly through education of road users.


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## Venevidivici (17 May 2013)

The very first time I wore a Polite tabard (&the matching hat band),a woman driving a convertible Mercedes was bombing up a hill towards me (I had seen&heard her coming at speed,due to me riding downhill, towards her). As she got within 20-25ft of me,she instantly killed her speed and,what do you know,dropped the mobile phone that she was chatting on,(like a hot brick),into her lap&looked extremely stunned&sheepish. I rode on,smirking to myself. Yes-she absolutely thought I was a police officer but yes,she definitely killed her speed as well. Tho it helps that I was on a big,bay horse,seeing as she was approaching me forwards,it was the chequered pattern on the hat band&tabard that did it,not the wording...


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## SusannaF (18 May 2013)

Venevidivici said:



			The very first time I wore a Polite tabard (&the matching hat band),a woman driving a convertible Mercedes was bombing up a hill towards me (I had seen&heard her coming at speed,due to me riding downhill, towards her). As she got within 20-25ft of me,she instantly killed her speed and,what do you know,dropped the mobile phone that she was chatting on,(like a hot brick),into her lap&looked extremely stunned&sheepish. I rode on,smirking to myself. Yes-she absolutely thought I was a police officer but yes,she definitely killed her speed as well. Tho it helps that I was on a big,bay horse,seeing as she was approaching me forwards,it was the chequered pattern on the hat band&tabard that did it,not the wording...
		
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I remember reading a lot of comments on here from people who said ordinary hi-vis made no difference to motorists like this.

I can see why the police have a problem. But meh. Back to the drawing board. To my mind, anything that stops tossers like that endangering lives is a good thing...


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## armchair_rider (18 May 2013)

I suppose we could go to the opposite extreme and start wearing Gitmo style orange overalls


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## fburton (18 May 2013)

armchair_rider said:



			I suppose we could go to the opposite extreme and start wearing Gitmo style orange overalls
		
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You reckon that would help?


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## my bfg (15 July 2013)

Found an old mag with an ad for this clothing which says its endorsed by the police, so am a tad confused after reading the statement. Also never heard of any issues when motorbike riders started wearing it, surely they're more likely to be mistaken for a copper out an about than a horse rider? After all there aren't many sheriffs in the uk


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## Bigrob34 (15 July 2013)

my bfg said:



			Found an old mag with an ad for this clothing which says its endorsed by the police, so am a tad confused after reading the statement. Also never heard of any issues when motorbike riders started wearing it, surely they're more likely to be mistaken for a copper out an about than a horse rider? After all there aren't many sheriffs in the uk
		
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It's not endorsed as such, rather the police (or rather ACPO) have decided that a chequered marking with the word 'polite' is not to be considered impersonation of a police officer.


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## MiJodsR2BlinkinTite (17 July 2013)

my bfg said:



			Found an old mag with an ad for this clothing which says its endorsed by the police, so am a tad confused after reading the statement. Also never heard of any issues when motorbike riders started wearing it, surely they're more likely to be mistaken for a copper out an about than a horse rider? After all there aren't many sheriffs in the uk
		
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Ehmm, think it was rather more "endorsed" by the company that made the "Polite" goods, more than the police as such, TBH. From what others have said on here, they didn't really ask first whether it was OK to use this motif, i.e. they went ahead and presumed the police would be OK with it rather than doing the sensible thing and liaising FIRST and getting ACPO and police forces on their side.

Result: confusion and possibility of being charged with "impersonating a police officer". WHY didn't they ask first??? Ijuts.


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## Fourlegsgood (18 July 2013)

Really, people. Read exactly what the police have said about these POLITE vests. They have not said do not wear them, they have not said you can't wear them, all they have said is that there is a risk that they could give rise to action. Well, they would say that wouldn't they. They've got to say that to cover their backsides.

I suggest everyone gets off their soapboxes, puts on their POLITE vests and then get on with riding horses until such (unlikely) time when someone is arrested and successfully prosecuted. And if a police officer makes a comment when you are wearing one just POLITELY thank him for his comments and carry on.


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