# Hunt asked to pay pub for holding a meet



## Judgemental (13 November 2012)

My sources in the Wilton Country, have told me that it has been necessary to move a meet from a well known pub, who have hosted the hunt since time began. Because the pub was proposing to charge the hunt for holding the meet at the pub.

That in my world is an all time first!


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## Suelin (13 November 2012)

I really can't say that I blame them, especially if they are providing drinks etc,  they have to charge everyone else for hosting things and pubs are having a really hard time just at the moment, so I guess it is just economics.


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## lachlanandmarcus (13 November 2012)

Surely the drinks if provided are paid for by someone. In hard times I cant imagine why a pub would turn down the chance of 50+ punters. Madness. Or do these pubs really provide free drinks ???


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## Judgemental (13 November 2012)

Purely out of academic interest Suelin:

Whose country do you hunt and presumably live in?

Do you have a connection with the pub trade?

I am merely asking out of interest because attitudes differ markedly depending on where one comes from.

In deepest darkest Devon/Cornwall where I can be found, such a notion would be met with total astonishment. Largely because the pubs that host meets are frequented by the hunt members one way and another, who make an ongoing financial contribution.

After all a dozen bottles of port and a few sausage rolls are neither here nor there, compared with the good will it generates towards the pubs trade.


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## Suelin (13 November 2012)

We also frequent a local pub and obviously pay for whatever is imbibed therein, however when I wanted to hold a birthday party there last year I still expected to pay, and did, for the privilege.  I am confused why a meet should be thought of any differently really.

No I am not in the pub trade (God forbid) however it is public knowledge that pubs are closing in record numbers for all kinds of reasons, so from their point of view they have to charge for things or go pop. (pardon the pun)  A dozen bottles of port may not be a huge amount of money (depends on your bank balance really)  however it does mean that the pub has to be open, put the lights on, possibly have staff in etc.  It all costs.  Simple economics.

I no longer hunt (far too arthritic these days sadly) although I live in Belvoir country.


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## Judgemental (13 November 2012)

Suelin said:



			We also frequent a local pub and obviously pay for whatever is imbibed therein, however when I wanted to hold a birthday party there last year I still expected to pay, and did, for the privilege.  I am confused why a meet should be thought of any differently really.

No I am not in the pub trade (God forbid) however it is public knowledge that pubs are closing in record numbers for all kinds of reasons, so from their point of view they have to charge for things or go pop. (pardon the pun)  A dozen bottles of port may not be a huge amount of money (depends on your bank balance really)  however it does mean that the pub has to be open, put the lights on, possibly have staff in etc.  It all costs.  Simple economics.

I no longer hunt (far too arthritic these days sadly) although I live in Belvoir country.
		
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Interesting, Leicestershire.


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## Alec Swan (13 November 2012)

I understand but a little of the pub trade (believe it,  or not!).  When we consider that any pub which hosts a meet will presumably welcome those who hunt on a regular basis,  and the hosting of a meet would be a modest step towards the balancing of books,  none-the-less,  a pub has to survive,  and were I either a Publican,  or a Master of Hounds,  I'd expect that any out of pocket expenses,  to the pub,  to be an acceptable offering.

There was a time J_M,  when Gun-dog Field Trials were hosted by landowners,  without charge,  and for the good of all.  Today,  Field Trials pay for their sport,  generally.  The Cocker Championships are held at Sandringham,  and as far as I'm aware,  Her Majesty has yet to ask for payment.

I'll agree with you,  that paying for hospitality has a rather vulgar ring to it,  but this is the 21st. century,  sadly,  and as you,  there are aspects of it which I'm not enjoying.

Alec.


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## Maesfen (13 November 2012)

lachlanandmarcus said:



			Surely the drinks if provided are paid for by someone. In hard times I cant imagine why a pub would turn down the chance of 50+ punters. Madness. Or do these pubs really provide free drinks ???
		
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Usually, yes, the pubs do provide it free unless someone asks them to have a meet there (if they don't have anywhere suitable at home but would still like to provide a meet) when they would either pay in full or share the costs with the pub.

Our village always hosts Boxing Day when the three pubs club together to provide.

I agree with J, the Devon/Somerset pubs do very nicely from year round trade from hunting locals, up here we don't have the same atmosphere by a long chalk; we do have pubs that we congregate in (and they are the ones that do provide us with meets) but we have very few meets at pubs these days compared to before, they're usually at private properties now.


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## combat_claire (13 November 2012)

We try to repay pubs that host meets or support us by holding meetings, play rehearsals and pub grub evenings in friendly pubs. Those pubs that do host meets tend to benefit hugely as they get the big seasonal meets and therefore the trade from spectators. This is Cambridgeshire.

I am very envious of JM living in the west country as on my sojourns down that way EVERYONE decamps to fill coffers of local pub after hunting. I think I'd be happy there!!


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## lachlanandmarcus (13 November 2012)

Maesfen said:



			Usually, yes, the pubs do provide it free unless someone asks them to have a meet there (if they don't have anywhere suitable at home but would still like to provide a meet) when they would either pay in full or share the costs with the pub.

Our village always hosts Boxing Day when the three pubs club together to provide.

I agree with J, the Devon/Somerset pubs do very nicely from year round trade from hunting locals, up here we don't have the same atmosphere by a long chalk; we do have pubs that we congregate in (and they are the ones that do provide us with meets) but we have very few meets at pubs these days compared to before, they're usually at private properties now.
		
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aah I see, thankyou for clarifying, I was a bit confused.


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## Clodagh (13 November 2012)

Alec Swan said:



			There was a time J_M,  when Gun-dog Field Trials were hosted by landowners,  without charge,  and for the good of all.  Today,  Field Trials pay for their sport,  generally.  The Cocker Championships are held at Sandringham,  and as far as I'm aware,  Her Majesty has yet to ask for payment.
Alec.
		
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I think hunting is the only sport nowadays that feels its sport should be provided FOC! (No bullets please, we gave a meet to ours on Saturday).


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## TBB (13 November 2012)

Pubs over here benefit from the trade before and after the meet and if you want a drink you go in and you pay for it. Most pubs are happy to have the hunt and enjoy a good session that night, probably the reason why only two or three of our meets are not at a pub.


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## Star_Chaser (13 November 2012)

TBB said:



			Pubs over here benefit from the trade before and after the meet and if you want a drink you go in and you pay for it. Most pubs are happy to have the hunt and enjoy a good session that night, probably the reason why only two or three of our meets are not at a pub.

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Do enough people hang around after then?  Or do they disappear after the meet is over to sort out horses etc if they are then I can totally appreciate the pub asking for something towards the day especially if it puts off other customers.

Alec swan your right about field trials can cost a good few hundred pounds just to hire the grounds needed and when you consider that in some trials its restricted to 12 dogs max thats a lot to pay out for very little entry fee.  Be great if there were more landowners prepared to lend their land for free we could hold more events for starters but so many land owners have had to diversify they can't afford the luxury of hosting a trial


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## Mince Pie (13 November 2012)

combat_claire said:



			We try to repay pubs that host meets or support us by holding meetings, play rehearsals and pub grub evenings in friendly pubs. Those pubs that do host meets tend to benefit hugely as they get the big seasonal meets and therefore the trade from spectators. This is Cambridgeshire.

I am very envious of JM living in the west country as on my sojourns down that way EVERYONE decamps to fill coffers of local pub after hunting. I think I'd be happy there!!
		
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Our local hunt did as well.

I am in the pub trade and earlier this year I was involved in hosting the hunt at our pub. It cost us more to provide nibbles and drink to the hunt staff and mounted field, than the foot followers etc spent so we were well out of pocket. I I am in the south east.


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## Judgemental (13 November 2012)

Broke_But_Happy said:



			Our local hunt did as well.

I am in the pub trade and earlier this year I was involved in hosting the hunt at our pub. It cost us more to provide nibbles and drink to the hunt staff and mounted field, than the foot followers etc spent so we were well out of pocket. I I am in the south east.
		
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Hence you forum handle.

Because they all took their hats off to you and were frightfully polite and said nice things about your hospitality?


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## jess_asterix (13 November 2012)

Most of our pub meets are breakfast meets, so this morning for example the pub sold at least 40 breakfast at £7 each, and over 10 bottles of port bought easily at £15 each. They didn't provide any drinks to 'the meet' and then a decent size group wen back in the pub after a days hunting, surely they have got to make money out of that?! 

Also last week we had 65 for breakfast at £8 a head with alot of port/fizzy wine going round at £16 a bottle for port and then in turn they provided every with a small tipple once mounted. They have got to have made money out of this. 

I think as long as the hunt gives back then surely it's a shame if the pub cannot provide a small drink for followers.


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## Countryman (13 November 2012)

Most of our meets aren't at pubs but a good few are. Generally, drinks to the field are provided free-and even nibbles sometimes.  I think on one hand the pubs enjoy the idea of hosting such a traditional event and being part of the countryside community-and of course it endears them to plenty of followers! 

However we do try to thank pubs that put on meets for us by hosting (highly lucrative!) very well attended supporters pub nights and hunt dinners there.


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## DotesonCluny (14 November 2012)

Am thinking the landlords of North Cornwall must be fairly supportive of the Hunt.Just looked at my card,we have four meets at pubs before Christmas !!


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## jess_asterix (14 November 2012)

Our hunt are very supportive of the landlords between now and Xmas we have 10 breakfast meets at pubs including the last 2 Tuesday's also being breakfast meets.


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## Mince Pie (14 November 2012)

Judgemental said:



			Hence you forum handle.

Because they all took their hats off to you and were frightfully polite and said nice things about your hospitality?
		
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Pardon? I am not following you (if you pardon the pun!).


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## Judgemental (14 November 2012)

Broke_But_Happy said:



			Pardon? I am not following you (if you pardon the pun!).
		
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You said: "I am in the pub trade and earlier this year I was involved in hosting the hunt at our pub. It cost us more to provide nibbles and drink to the hunt staff and mounted field, than the foot followers etc spent so we were well out of pocket. I I am in the south east".

So I concluded that your handle 'Broke But Happy' was as a result of being out of pocket i.e the Broke part. But Happy because they were all so appreciative, and polite?

Sorry my simple sense of humor


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## Mince Pie (14 November 2012)

Oh, I see. However in relation to the quote in my original post, the hunt did come back and have a meal which did make up for the deficit.


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## JenHunt (14 November 2012)

combat_claire said:



			We try to repay pubs that host meets or support us by holding meetings, play rehearsals and pub grub evenings in friendly pubs. Those pubs that do host meets tend to benefit hugely as they get the big seasonal meets and therefore the trade from spectators. This is Cambridgeshire.
		
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We, in Yorkshire, are much as CC, we frequent those pubs who support us, in order to support them and return the favour. 

There are some followers who attend the meet then stay in the pub, there are many more who follow for a couple of hours, then return to the pub for lunch. But for most of us it's a less immediate return for the pub, we'll think on a Friday about going out for tea and think "oh yes, the hare and hounds put on a good meet, lets try there..." or whatever. So they may not see the return as you're unlikely to tell them directly that you're there because of the meet they hosted. 

Maybe they should be doing a "how did you hear about us" type thing with the bill?

At the same time, I can totally understand why the pubs would ask for a donation, or a basic costs charge or something. 

We had a weekend hunting in Ireland a few years ago, and the meet was on foot in the pub, where one paid for the drinks. But after a wonderful days hunting we all returned to the pub, who then put on a spread of sarnies and cake and a giant pot of tea (FOC to those who'd been hunting, whether the hunt paid I don't know), but any alcohol was paid for. That sounds like a good way round to do it to me!


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## rachel_s (18 November 2012)

One point which hasn't been noted is many pubs are part of big chains.  
The pubs I worked in had to account for every drop including the beer swills.  15 bottles of port on top of everyday wastage would result in managers being performance managed. 
 And i doubt many managers would be willing to pay out of their own pocket.  Promotions would have to be cleared at a regional level if it involved free alcohol.  I worked in Leicestershire at the time, and my brother did the training scheme for Scottish and Newcastle.  

Personally I'm quite stunned that people expect pubs to provide free drink.


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## combat_claire (18 November 2012)

We must have more free houses round here then. We have 5 pub meets and without exception the Landlords are supportive of one meet a year. 

At the 3 festive meets there will be hundreds of spectators who mostly seem to be clutching hot soup or a drink paid for at the host pub. Many of them will see the hunt off and then return to pub for more drinks or lunch. That doesn't seem a bad return for a few bottles of port and some fruit cake!


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## Maizy (21 November 2012)

Judgemental said:



			My sources in the Wilton Country, have told me that it has been necessary to move a meet from a well known pub, who have hosted the hunt since time began. Because the pub was proposing to charge the hunt for holding the meet at the pub.

That in my world is an all time first!
		
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I only came on here to lurk before bedtime, but feel I must comment on this post.  Only last night was I sat in a fairly empty, semi rural pub within the Wilton Country, chatting to my friend & landlord of which I can only assume is the unnamed pub. 

Over a catch up he relaid his side of the story to me, as 'his crazy horse friend' I sat listening in my yard boots and jods.  So to quote 'from the horses mouth' as I recall, he recently received a call from the Wilton, requesting he hosted a meet.  He couldn't recall who he spoke to, it meant nothing to him (eg Master) who it was anyway, as sadly is not remotely interested in horses/hunting.  Neither does he have any regulars who have made their association with the hunt known in the pub, despite being the landlord since 2009.

Perhaps if someone from the hunt had popped in to chat about the arrangements over a pint or two, the Wilton would have been better received and an amicable, mutually beneficial agreement could have been reached.  For example, I suspect he'd have jumped at the chance to do breakfast for 10+people at £7/head etc or take a Christmas booking for a meal.

Sadly as many pubs are forced to do theses days, he had to make a financial decision and look at the previous years figures when they have hosted the hunt.  Based on the fact the last two times had been run at a loss, he replied back to the hunt saying he's be happy to let them use the facilities, car park etc but in order to open the pub early, provide extra staff (ie a few people handing food and drinks out in the car park, someone behind the bar, the chef in the kitchen etc,) it would double his cost of wages for the day, not to mention the assumption of free food and port.  He proposed it would cost him about £2/head and on the basis of 100 people at the meet it would be £200 all in, provided AT COST.

He also mentioned to me the fact the small pub car park would be littered with horse muck, full of lorries all morning/day and could potentially distract his main source of regular customers from the local hospital, as lunchtime food trade.  In addition access to the village and car park is very tight.  

My feelings were how sad that the relationship with a meet pub had been broken down due to lack of understanding on both sides.  Since the hunt are initially the ones to benefit, in future perhaps they should reconsider their approach/ expectations from pubs (who are facing very tough times) and see how they can best support them in return, before they are lost for good.

My actual response to the landlord was 'you silly thing you should have rang me first, I'd have passed around the food and port for you and maybe rallied some local help, you could have negotiated a day out for me?!'

I think this situation, only highlights the extra effort, communication and courtesy hunts need to extend to non hunting (sitting on the fence/outsiders) to bring the community support back to their local hunts.  

I must admit it might be a lost cause now in this instance, as he does have a business head (albit is also very charitable and possibly actually scared of horses!) but equally he is not trying to alienate people from his pub, which appears to be the stance the Wilton have taken.

Good will needs to be demonstrated from both parties!


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## Judgemental (21 November 2012)

Maizy said:



			I only came on here to lurk before bedtime, but feel I must comment on this post.  Only last night was I sat in a fairly empty, semi rural pub within the Wilton Country, chatting to my friend & landlord of which I can only assume is the unnamed pub. 

Over a catch up he relaid his side of the story to me, as 'his crazy horse friend' I sat listening in my yard boots and jods.  So to quote 'from the horses mouth' as I recall, he recently received a call from the Wilton, requesting he hosted a meet.  He couldn't recall who he spoke to, it meant nothing to him (eg Master) who it was anyway, as sadly is not remotely interested in horses/hunting.  Neither does he have any regulars who have made their association with the hunt known in the pub, despite being the landlord since 2009.

Perhaps if someone from the hunt had popped in to chat about the arrangements over a pint or two, the Wilton would have been better received and an amicable, mutually beneficial agreement could have been reached.  For example, I suspect he'd have jumped at the chance to do breakfast for 10+people at £7/head etc or take a Christmas booking for a meal.

Sadly as many pubs are forced to do theses days, he had to make a financial decision and look at the previous years figures when they have hosted the hunt.  Based on the fact the last two times had been run at a loss, he replied back to the hunt saying he's be happy to let them use the facilities, car park etc but in order to open the pub early, provide extra staff (ie a few people handing food and drinks out in the car park, someone behind the bar, the chef in the kitchen etc,) it would double his cost of wages for the day, not to mention the assumption of free food and port.  He proposed it would cost him about £2/head and on the basis of 100 people at the meet it would be £200 all in, provided AT COST.

He also mentioned to me the fact the small pub car park would be littered with horse muck, full of lorries all morning/day and could potentially distract his main source of regular customers from the local hospital, as lunchtime food trade.  In addition access to the village and car park is very tight.  

My feelings were how sad that the relationship with a meet pub had been broken down due to lack of understanding on both sides.  Since the hunt are initially the ones to benefit, in future perhaps they should reconsider their approach/ expectations from pubs (who are facing very tough times) and see how they can best support them in return, before they are lost for good.

My actual response to the landlord was 'you silly thing you should have rang me first, I'd have passed around the food and port for you and maybe rallied some local help, you could have negotiated a day out for me?!'

I think this situation, only highlights the extra effort, communication and courtesy hunts need to extend to non hunting (sitting on the fence/outsiders) to bring the community support back to their local hunts.  

I must admit it might be a lost cause now in this instance, as he does have a business head (albit is also very charitable and possibly actually scared of horses!) but equally he is not trying to alienate people from his pub, which appears to be the stance the Wilton have taken.

Good will needs to be demonstrated from both parties!
		
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Maizey, plainly you need to invite your friend to become a member on this forum. 

Clearly he has some very important and useful points to make.

I am sure he or she would be most welcome, bearing in mind the deep roots that connect hunting and pubs.

I am aware of the name of the pub concerned and perhaps the landlord could use his pub name as his/her handle on this forum, thereby scoring something of a goal in terms of PR.

Do please get him/her to participate, far far too much is taken for granted by people who hunt and I felt that in this situation, it was best to have made a contribution to the expenses, as did my informant.


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## FairyLights (21 November 2012)

2 pubs in our locality tried to charge our local hunt last season. Needless to say the meets were held nearby but elsewhere.


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## Judgemental (21 November 2012)

I have been giving the issue some consideration and believe it is only right, taking the difficult time that pubs and landlords are experiencing that hunts, should take a positive and supportive position.

This so called _quid pro quo_ betwixt hunt's and pubs is a thing of the past.

With the difficulties created by the Hunting Act 2004 hunts should be prepared to make a contribution to a pub's  cost of hosting a meet.

After all there is all ways somebody shaking a bag or a box for foot followers and similarly the secretary or treasurer is taking money off mounted followers, at the meet *ON PUB PROPERTY*.   

This is a new subject and I shall be focusing upon it with laser like interest, because it seems logical that there is a mutual gain to had by both hunt and pub, in the context of the overall rural economic infrastructure.

So my view now is that it is time for hunts to make a contribution to the cost.


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## happyhunter123 (21 November 2012)

Judgemental said:



			This so called _quid pro quo_ betwixt hunt's and pubs is a thing of the past.

With the difficulties created by the Hunting Act 2004 hunts should be prepared to make a contribution to a pub's  cost of hosting a meet.
		
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Really? A thing of the past? Only in some areas I guess. The relevance of the Hunting Act I can't see, in fact immediately after the Act the support of our local pubs was very great indeed. We had many invitations to host meets both at pubs and at houses, many of them one-offs!  

I can understand why some pubs may want to charge to host a meet, it seems fair and reasonable. But I think a charge would put some hunts off meeting at pubs, not all, but some. But then again, all of my local pubs are very supportive of hunting so we have never encountered such issues.


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## Alec Swan (21 November 2012)

J_M,  I suppose that it would depend entirely upon the pub's established relationship with those who hunt.  To use your quid pro quo as a benchmark,  if those who hunt,  NOT just on the day of the meet,  but eat in or frequent the pub,  on a regular basis,  then as a small thank you,  most pubs will repay the loyalty.  If in the other hand,  those who hunt turn up on the morning,  use the facilities,  bray at the staff,  field and followers,  and then shove off for the day,  never to be seen again,  then the publican me feel rather used,  and most would make the mistake,  but only once.  Quid pro quo,  as you say! 

Alec.


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## Judgemental (21 November 2012)

Alec Swan said:



			J_M,  I suppose that it would depend entirely upon the pub's established relationship with those who hunt.  To use your quid pro quo as a benchmark,  if those who hunt,  NOT just on the day of the meet,  but eat in or frequent the pub,  on a regular basis,  then as a small thank you,  most pubs will repay the loyalty.  If in the other hand,  those who hunt turn up on the morning,  use the facilities,  bray at the staff,  field and followers,  and then shove off for the day,  never to be seen again,  then the publican me feel rather used,  and most would make the mistake,  but only once.  Quid pro quo,  as you say! 

Alec.
		
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Alec clearly there is an underlying sea-change in rural relationships and would it not make for a more orderly arrangement if the hunt makes a contribution, thereby putting themselves squarely in the position of a customer. 

Thus can point to another feature of 'use' in the local economy. 

Not forgetting for every drop of alcohol consumed HM Government takes a cut - of whatever political persuasion. I am sure anybody following this thread will see where I am coming from in respect of the Hunting Act 2004.


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## YorksG (21 November 2012)

One of our local foot hunts is alway welcome to meet at one of our true country pubs, mainly because they do things like have the hunt sing there and hold other fund raisers (harvest auctions etc). They are also very welcoming of our RC charity fundraising rides, because we have our RC meetings there, where most of us will eat as well as have a drink. Seems to work well for all of us.


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## Judgemental (22 November 2012)

YorksG said:



			One of our local foot hunts is alway welcome to meet at one of our true country pubs, mainly because they do things like have the hunt sing there and hold other fund raisers (harvest auctions etc). They are also very welcoming of our RC charity fundraising rides, because we have our RC meetings there, where most of us will eat as well as have a drink. Seems to work well for all of us.
		
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Exactly and this is the quid pro quo element.

But did anybody ever quantify the value to the licensed pub trade or quantum prior to the ban - no.


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## Suelin (22 November 2012)

Judgemental said:



			Exactly and this is the quid pro quo element.

But did anybody ever quantify the value to the licensed pub trade or quantum prior to the ban - no.
		
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I don't suppose that they did but frankly I don't think that this subject is anything to do with the ban, just the current economic situation which was somewhat different prior to the ban.


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## happyhunter123 (22 November 2012)

Suelin said:



			I don't suppose that they did but frankly I don't think that this subject is anything to do with the ban, just the current economic situation which was somewhat different prior to the ban.
		
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I quite agree. The ban has had very limited impact, in my opinion. Hunts haven't disbanded and follower numbers haven't decreased. The economy, and the price of a pint are much more important factors.


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## FairyLights (22 November 2012)

OT but wanted to say I love Alec's signature.


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## Judgemental (22 November 2012)

happyhunter123 said:



			I quite agree. The ban has had very limited impact, in my opinion. Hunts haven't disbanded and follower numbers haven't decreased. The economy, and the price of a pint are much more important factors.
		
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Indeed you are right, nevertheless come the repeal, statistics such as the contribution to the pub trade would be useful.


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## combat_claire (23 November 2012)

Judgemental said:



			Exactly and this is the quid pro quo element.

But did anybody ever quantify the value to the licensed pub trade or quantum prior to the ban - no.
		
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Richard Matson did attempt to quantify the effect a foxhound pack had in the local area in his report 'Hypothetical consequences of closing down a large pack of foxhounds to include its economic implication on the local community and its effect on the countryside in general' - offhand I cannot remember whether he looked at the pub trade. Thinking of the various pubs where we meet in this hunt country.


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## wench (23 November 2012)

Dont get any hunters in my local. Does a bit with shooters food though!


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## Judgemental (25 November 2012)

As this originated with the *Wilton Hunt* they would have commented officially?


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## Judgemental (25 November 2012)

Judgemental said:



			As this originated with the *Wilton Hunt* they would have commented officially?
		
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correction:

As this originated with the *Wilton Hunt*, one would hope they could comment officially?


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