# My horse killed my best friends dog, I need some advice :(



## RedDevlin (10 July 2014)

I wrote a long essay but then figured it might not be too fun to trawl through. The long and short of it is as the title states. 
Now I love my boy. But I love my best friend more and that dog was like her baby. Our horses livery together and she will never be able to look at my boy again. He's not a malicious or dangerous horse and has been around dogs puppies and bunnies aplenty so I've no idea where its come from. But my question is, what do I do? Loan him? Sell him? This is the sort of thing my bestie would help me make sense of but she is still understandably devastated so I'm looking for help here. I'm trying to make sense of it all and find a solution but I feel like I'm sinking. I also have no idea where to start on an advert or what a reasonable price is. He has potential and is a gorgeous horse so I wouldn't want  him to be wasted but I'd love to keep in contact with his owners and watch him blossom  this sucks. Sorry for the esaay. I just can't speak to anyone I know about it without crying.


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## Spotsrock (10 July 2014)

No help, just sympathy x


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## sychnant (10 July 2014)

So sorry for all of you, a horrible thing to happen 

What exactly happened? Was it deliberate or an accident? That would make a difference as to what I would do.


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## skint1 (10 July 2014)

I am so sorry, what an awful thing to happen for all concerned. Are you sure that your friend would want you to give up your horse?  Everything is so raw now, maybe give it some time to see how things settle, but I don't know anyone involved so that is easy for me to say


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## Tiddlypom (10 July 2014)

So sorry to hear this.

How did it happen? Did the dog provoke or frighten your horse in any way, even accidentally?


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## zaminda (10 July 2014)

It would help to know exactly how it happened. For instance, was the dog at fault? If the dog was just mooching around and the horse attacked, that would be different.


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## WelshD (10 July 2014)

Its a terribly sad situation but I think youd be mad to rehome your horse -  is it honestly better for both of you to be deprived over this situation?

Surely your friend understands that horses can be unpredictable since she has one of her own?

Have you spoken to her about your horse? she may be upset but time is a great healer, if your friend is aware and happy for you to rehome your horse over this I'm afraid she cannot be thinking straight right now


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## Carefreegirl (10 July 2014)

Take your time and don't do anything straight away. I'm assuming it was an accident so you both need time to get your heads round it. I very much doubt your friend would expect you to sell your horse because of what's happened. 
What an awfully sad situation for you both to be in, sorry.


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## Toffee_monster (10 July 2014)

Where did it happen? Its not your fault surely ! Horses are unpredictable at times and dogs should be loose around horses at the owners risk only


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## BethanT (10 July 2014)

sychnant said:



			So sorry for all of you, a horrible thing to happen 

What exactly happened? Was it deliberate or an accident? That would make a difference as to what I would do.
		
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Agree with the above. If was an accident I'm sure friend would understand you not wanting to sell. But if it was malicious then perhaps it might be an idea to sell him on.

Though I think before you make a decision you need to talk to your friend after she has gotten over the initial loss of her dog. She may not feel the way you expect her too and not want you to sell him. 

Sorry for it all to have happened though, can't imagine how horrible it is.


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## Wiz201 (10 July 2014)

What exactly happened? Calm down before doing anything!


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## meesha (10 July 2014)

Awful thing to happen but don't feel you need to sell, you now know the potential is there and can put safeguards in place to prevent it happening again (signs on fence to warn owners, move to livery with no loose dogs etc) I have my own yard but warn all my friends not to let their dogs near my horses as they will attack them.  My own dog runs loose but is quick and aware of the horses, my horses have never killed a dog but one has kicked my previous dog resulting in loss of teeth and op needed.  If you sell the person you sell to will not have seen first hand the issue so may not take it so seriously and there is then huge potential for it to happen again.   Horrible situation, thoughts are with you and your friend.


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## RedDevlin (10 July 2014)

I wasn't there at the time and I've not properly spoken to my friend as she's in bits. But from what my non horsey friend has told me who was there it was unprovoked. She's a small breed dog. And a doll at that. So no. Horse at fault. Which is so hard to swallow. He just went for her with his front hooves. My bestie blames herself but really my horse has met this dog before and seen her mooching about. As well as other dogs. But he isn't mean, just over zealous I guess. Or is that the words of a mum in denial? I don't know. The urgency is due to the fact that she won't set foot on the yard now, I don't blame her. So for now I'll be caring for both. But hers will need to be moved when she's ready. But she's my best friend and we have our horses together to rise together, give each other lessons. And its how we hang out most. After this I won't be able to call her up if I have a bad ride or show her pictures of us jumping or hacking. I'm trying not to be selfish about it as ive known the dog a lot longer than my horse and she is my friends absolute world


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## RedDevlin (10 July 2014)

And thankyou all for your kind words. It is the most sucky situation and its still sinking in x


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## stormox (10 July 2014)

I have seen many horses (mainly colts) attack a dog which enters their  field. Its quite common for them to guard their area, or herd, against incomers. I saw a poor terrier get really stomped on and killed once. You cant be to blame if you weren't there, and I'm sure when your best friend has thought about it she will realise it wasn't your fault, its what some horses do, and I definitely wouldn't do anything drastic like sell...


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## WelshD (10 July 2014)

Your friend needs to take some responsibility. if you let dogs mingle with horses there is always the chance of something happening, even an inncocent spook while tied up could kill a small dog.

Do leave it a few days for the worst of the upset to be over then broach the subject with your friend - a true friend would not want you to rehome your horse over this and IMHO is not the way to make things better


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## Tobiano (10 July 2014)

oh gosh OP I am so sorry for you and your friend.  Such a horrible thing to happen.  Recently my horse kicked a friend's dog but thankfully the damage was not too bad.  Friend was really good about it and blamed herself not my horse.  

Reading your situation I think in your position too I might at least offer to sell my horse - as your friendship is clearly massively important and you could end up not enjoying your horse anyway if he is a constant reminder of the incident.  But like others say, take a day or two just to get a bit of perspective.  Very, very sadly these things do happen and perhaps your friend will come to see it as just a tragic accident.  Hugs x x


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## ihatework (10 July 2014)

Don't rush into anything.
Give it a month and then reevaluate.

There will always be a risk if people choose to have their dogs loose around the horses. A sad lesson to learn


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## Tiffany (10 July 2014)

Terrible situation for all concerned but I agree you shouldn't over react. I think it might be an idea to meet your friend on neutral territory and talk through how you are both feeling. I'm sure it will be a roller coaster of emotions for both of you but you both need to get those emotions out or it won't matter if you do part with you horse, you might still not remain friends which would be a shame.
Good luck


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## NeverSayNever (10 July 2014)

it&#8217;s not your fault, you weren&#8217;t even there. I feel desperately sorry for your friend but its a lesson hard learned. This is the risk you take mixing dogs and horses and the reason I don&#8217;t. Horses will be horses and dogs will be dogs and I value my dogs too highly to risk either. Dont sell your horse op, it&#8217;s a horrid situation but really you werent to blame and neither was your horse.


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## Tiddlypom (10 July 2014)

You are all understandably in shock. 

However, the dog should never have been allowed in a situation in which she was at risk from your horse, or anyone else's. 

What a horrible way to learn that lesson, though.


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## AmieeT (10 July 2014)

WelshD said:



			Your friend needs to take some responsibility. if you let dogs mingle with horses there is always the chance of something happening, even an inncocent spook while tied up could kill a small dog.

Do leave it a few days for the worst of the upset to be over then broach the subject with your friend - a true friend would not want you to rehome your horse over this and IMHO is not the way to make things better
		
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100% agree with this.

Animals will be animals no matter how domesticated we'd like them to be.

Not the dogs fault, not the horses. Just a sad accident.

Ax


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## Wagtail (10 July 2014)

A horse nearly killed my dog once. I own a livery yard and personally would never let any of my dogs in the fields with the horses. My own mare of a lifetime would chase any dog that entered her paddock even though when tied up on the yard she was great with them all and they could sniff around her and even go underneath her. It seems horses act completely differently when at liberty in the field. I would not trust any horse that was not being ridden or tied up with a dog.

I am so sorry for what you are going through. It is just awful. Your friend obviously hates your horse and I don't blame her. But IMO he was just being a horse.


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## meesha (10 July 2014)

That's what my gelding tries to do, he mainly ignores the dog but occasionally if feeling very "well" will charge front feet flying! It is after all his field not the dogs and sometimes he has had enough of the dog - although the dog did used to try and snap at heels so not totally unprovoked.   Don't do anything for now, even if you get rid of your horse sounds like she will move anyway so unless you are getting another horse instead and moving with her you will still not be together.  Big glass of wine needed (or bottle!)  Just remember you are not in control of the actions of your horse in its field.


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## RedDevlin (10 July 2014)

Thank you all. I think I will leave it until she's ready to talk. Thankyou for yous reassuring words. Someone mentioned colts getting field protective and he does occasionally come across quite 'riggy' like when mares are about ...perhaps its related?


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## calmgirl (10 July 2014)

I think your friend will realise in a while that it wasn't the best thing to allow a dog near a horse on or off the lead. And she will feel sad and guilty, even more so if you get rid of your horse. You weren't even there handling your horse and I've seen lovely horses grab and toss a cat ( it was fine), kick at dogs, slap a hoof down at a dog. None of these things would make me sell on a horse at all. 
Give her time and don't do anything yet, I can't imagine she'd ask you to give up your horse. X


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## PolarSkye (10 July 2014)

I'm so sorry.  What a horrible thing to happen - to you and your friend.  Your heart must heart for her and you must feel so guilty.

However . . . some horses don't like dogs and will strike at them.  My boy loves them . . . will let them walk underneath him, swing off his tail (yes, really) and usually just wants to put his nose on them to sniff them . . . one day, though, when he was on box rest, he struck at my collie/springer cross when she was in his stable - when she'd been in his stable a hundred times before without any problems.  To this day I have no idea why he struck . . . thankfully he missed and he hasn't done it since.  It's possible he had spent so much time in that he was a) fed up; and b) protecting "his" space . . . or it's possible that he was just feeling grumpy.

The thing I am trying (and failing) to say is that, as trite as it sounds, these things so happen.  No, that doesn't make your friend (or you) feel any better, nor does it bring her dog back . . . but it doesn't mean you should sell your horse.

I really hope you and your friend can work through this issue . . . much love x

P


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## Sussexbythesea (10 July 2014)

How terribly sad for all of you. Firstly don't rush into anything and make decisions while feelings are very raw. 

To be honest having dogs especially tiny ones around horses is always going to have an element of risk even if just from accidental injury. I certainly wouldn't trust my horse 100% not to strike out especially if the dog was loose around him in the field. Animals do unpredictable things and we always need to remember that. It is rare that they do anything with malicious intent it will be purely instinctual even if we don't understand why. As much as your friend is hurting right now I'm sure if she is a true friend she wouldn't expect you to get rid of your horse.


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## RedDevlin (10 July 2014)

You've all made me feel better. Thankyou. In one of her few short messages to me today she has said she doesn't expect me to sell him and he's my boy and she knows I love him. She is blaming herself wholeheartedly and its breaking my heart. She isn't coping and I don't know how or if she'll ever get over it. So she isn't guilting me into selling...I just don't know what's best. Its reassuring to know I don't have a monster pony though


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## MagicMelon (10 July 2014)

WelshD said:



			Your friend needs to take some responsibility. if you let dogs mingle with horses there is always the chance of something happening, even an inncocent spook while tied up could kill a small dog.

Do leave it a few days for the worst of the upset to be over then broach the subject with your friend - a true friend would not want you to rehome your horse over this and IMHO is not the way to make things better
		
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This.  Your horse wasn't just being nasty, there will have been a reason why he did what he did to the dog - the dog may have surprised him for example. Unfortunately things like this can happen if dogs are allowed to be around horses.  I think you should give it a few days as Im sure your friend will come round. I really cant see why she should expect you to sell your horse as a result, even though its very sad what has happened. Why should you both lose something you love?  I think responsibility ultimately lands with the dog owner as its up to her to try and keep the dog safe unfortunately. I know I'm always very careful with my dog around my horses as I can see how easily she could get kicked, I'd never let her be loose around other peoples horses.


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## Pebble101 (10 July 2014)

How awful for you all.  My horse will put up with all sorts of things from dogs when out hacking. He is also ok with them in my field along the road. However in the field at the back of my house he is very territorial.  I have seen him chase a dog, my neighbours cat and also a rabbit. 
Sadly for your friend I think she will realise she should not have let them mix.


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## Leo Walker (10 July 2014)

My own dog got kicked by one of mine when he was a pup. Just a stupid accident that should never have happened as my dog shouldnt have been loose around the horses  He never bothered them, he just moved too quick behind one, one day. Lesson learnt, no dogs near horses EVER again! There was also an incident with my bombproof safe old cob. 110% around dogs, including them snapping at his heels when we were riding. My friends terrier went into the field one day and was just mooching about, the old cob charged over and tried to stamp on him with his front feet. The only thing that saved the terrier was my old boy being to old and arthritic to do what he intended. It was pretty scary to see! But would have been totally my friends fault and there would have been no talk of selling anything! If a dog get hurt/injured by a horse, its the owners fault sadly


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## Feival (10 July 2014)

Harsh but MHO, None of my horses would be going anywhere if this happened. You are massively over reacting. It was an accident or a one off event, her dog should not have been loose around your horse.  Tragic and Sad but such extreme measures are not needed.


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## Hoof_Prints (10 July 2014)

Horrible situation, but I too think you'd be mad to rehome your horse because of the incident ! the dog should not have been near the horse, and your friend will have to accept responsibility - understandably she won't want to, as that makes it much harder to cope with. Horses just react by instinct and are easily spooked . I have experienced a similar situation, my horse was in the field and my friend's dog ran out in the field, and ran around my horses legs. The horse had never kicked anything before, and never has since! but she just reacted and kicked out, hit the dog square in the head and it went flying through the air. As it turned out, the dog was fine and had his teeth kicked out and a badly broken jaw but he survived- a slightly different angle on the kick and it could have easily killed him! My friend and his family were completely fine and said it was totally their fault for letting the dog in the field. 

If I was your friend , i'd feel awful if you rehomed your horse over that! and if she wants you to sell your horse, that is incredibly selfish and just a way to ease her conscience (i'm not saying she is doing that btw- just waffling on, don't read that in a nasty way  ) , but i'd assume she does not want you to do that! It's just a very unfortunate case of "these things happen", you can't go back and change it now, no point adding more grief and hassle where it is not needed. Hope you work it out


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## ester (10 July 2014)

Sorry but another who agrees that it is your friend who will have to get over this rather than you getting rid of your horse! Horses and small dogs are never going to be a great mix - one misplaced hoof easily has the potential to be fatal- so she was taking a great risk allowing the dog to be so close and you were not there to intervene. Even more so if in field - my gelding will actively go after a dog in his paddock. He will tolerated the dogs around the yard but they are never without close supervision then anyway.


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## Polos Mum (10 July 2014)

Very sad, like everyone above I wouldn't sell him over this - accidents happen especially around horses. 

My dog got in with my new ish horse and chased him around barking !  My horse really turned on him (totally justifiably) and was really going for him, I tried to get in and catch the dog - until I spotted that I was the one slowest and hence most likely to be seriously injured!  The horse is totally fine with dogs and certainly not aggressive to people at all but he ment business! and there have been no ill effects since - other than I'm being ultra careful not to let dogs out when I am turning out ! 

My friend fell off a horse of mine and broke both bones in her lower leg, she was still on crutches a year later, lost a fortune as she couldn't work and 3 years later just about riding again - I will never truly forgive myself but he just did horse stuff and it's a risk we take.


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## Laafet (10 July 2014)

WelshD said:



			Your friend needs to take some responsibility. if you let dogs mingle with horses there is always the chance of something happening, even an inncocent spook while tied up could kill a small dog.

Do leave it a few days for the worst of the upset to be over then broach the subject with your friend - a true friend would not want you to rehome your horse over this and IMHO is not the way to make things better
		
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Agree with this ^^^ I have had my own dog kicked so badly by a horse that I thought he was dead, it took him 6 months to recover fully. Firstly I didn't want the horse got rid of, he was a colt, my dog should not have been in the field, I was feeding and I didn't realise he had jumped out the car to join me. He was actually running out of the field as I had spotted him and told him to get out, the colt saw him and went to play, he chased him and went with his front feet. It was not mailicious, it was just a horse being a horse. 
Another incident that really made me think that people really need to open their eyes to the situations they put their dogs in. At a livery yard I was at, a dog was killed by a horse, the old guy who owned the dog was walking across the field as he does every day with no bother and the horse started to pester them, he could be like that, anyway in the end the dog got smashed in the face and its jaw broken badly. The owner of the horse was not told so she didn't get upset. I am now of the opinion that dogs and horses in a field are a really bad mix no matter how used to each other they are. I suppose it is not until you see it all go wrong then you can't understand just how dangerous it is. I, for one, will never ever let my dog loose in a field with horses and tend not to take him up the yard at all and if he does go he is tied up well away from any hooves. My own horse is an ex-hunt horse, he is very good with dogs whilst mounted but once you get off him, he is a whole different kettle of fish and I have seen him chase and lash out at dogs running loose while people poo pick, they were oblivious of the danger.


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## mairiwick (10 July 2014)

It sounds as though you are doing what you think is best for your friendship - which is understandable.  However, I think it will take her time to process,  to grieve and to get her head around that. If you sell your boy that will not make it any quicker for her to recover, as a previous poster has said she will no doubt feel more guilty. Hang fire, support her with her horse and be there for her away from the yard if you can. Awful situation all round.


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## Spot_the_Risk (10 July 2014)

I'm sorry for your troubles, and I think you two need to get together ASAP before it all becomes a bit awkward,and have a good hug and bawl your eyes out and chew it over.  It's better to talk about these things.

Our home bred filly killed our terrier a few years ago... Catalogue of disasters where flying ants were sending the horses mad and they'd broken through the fencing we were caring for a friends blind dog so we're looking to her more than our own dogs... Dog was in long grass and possibly took the filly be surprise and she stamped on her, both front feet, the terrier died later that evening.  Awful, so I know how it feels, easier for us as they were both our animals.


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## Mince Pie (10 July 2014)

It's good that your friend doesn't want you to sell your horse, and I hope she is OK soon. However, I'm not sure why your first reaction is to sell/loan your horse, surely just moving yards would be easier?


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## Mahoganybay (10 July 2014)

So sorry for your friend and for you too, i am sure the guilt you must be feeling right now is awful. However, dogs are wolves to horses, if your horse is a colt then his reaction could be seen as a natural one. Most horses mature with that instinct suppressed because they 'get used to' being tolerant of dogs by repetition. It sounds like reading your posts that the dog got in the field with your horse, if that's the case then i'm not completely surprised this has happened.

I know that i couldn't completely trust my horse not to do the same thing in that situation.

Arrange to meet with your friend in neutral territory, take a box of tissues and a big bar of chocolate, both have a good cry and then she needs to take some responsibility and move on. It's not about blame. 

Big hugs.


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## JDH01 (10 July 2014)

Really difficult one this but in mho you and your friend need to talk about this as it is an animal to animal issue and neither of you are at fault.  I have had a dog very badly hurt by friends horse - he survived but was always very lame. I took him into the field and horse attacked him, previously fine with dogs of all types.  I was obviously upset but could never have held her responsible as both horse and dog were loose.  The only reason he survived was because the ground was really soft.


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## Polar Bear9 (10 July 2014)

So sorry for you, what a horrible, horrible situation you are in. All I can say is that if I were your friend and had lost my dog I would feel 100x worse about the situation if it meant you lost your boy as well. I would hate for my friend to lose their horse because I lost my dog. If your friend is horsey and doggy then I'm sure she will understand that accidents happen and that no one was really to blame. You need to sit down , talk to her and let her know how bad you are feeling about the situation. That way you can probably work out a solution which would be best for both of you and for your friendship x


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## Pearlsasinger (10 July 2014)

A horrible situation for you both and I'm guessing that you are both teenagers.  It is natural for teenagers to become extremely emotional about such things but actually I think that your friend needs to gather herself together and get back to the yard to care for her own horse.  She is not helping the situation by reacting in this manner.  Unfortunately life does sometimes throw us what the Americans call 'curveballs' and wallowing in our misery gets us no-where.
Hopefully this will have been a lesson learned for all concerned - NEVER allow a loose dog around horses.
We used to have a gelding who stamped on rats if they got into his stable, we had to move at least one 'pressed rat' every winter.  A friend had a hunter which killed a litter of kittens, when they started crawling around his stable.  That is what horses do, it is an instinctive reaction to small animals round their feet.
My advice is to do nothing for at least a month and see how you feel then.


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## khalswitz (10 July 2014)

Very, very sorry for what has happened, sounds horrendous. However I agree that these things can happen!

My horse is a doll around dogs on the yard, out hacking, even ones snapping at him. But a loose dog went into his field once and I swear if he'd have caught it he'd have killed it - front feet were flying, he looked like a demon. Gave my friend and her dog a shock!!! Dog never went loose in field again. I've also watched my lad do it with foxes.

Any loose dog in a field with loose horses is at risk as you have no control over either dog or horse.

So please don't blame your horse, he is no monster.


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## Amymay (10 July 2014)

Horrid thing to have happened, but sorry the person at fault is the person who put the dog and horse in that position.

I can't for the life of me understand why you would now want to get rid of the horse.


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## PollyP99 (10 July 2014)

amymay said:



			Horrid thing to have happened, but sorry the person at fault is the person who put the dog and horse in that position.

I can't for the life of me understand why you would now want to get rid of the horse.
		
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I think the op spent all her horsey time with her best friend so moving the horse is a huge thing.  That's how I read it.  My first dog was my surrogate child and I totally get how awful both sides must feel I would gave been devastated. 

So whilst it's tough I can see how I might loan my fairly new horse in order to keep my friend whilst we both get over the loss of the dog.  

It's really hard, hugs op and friend, talk it through and do what you need to to get through I really feel for you.


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## Roasted Chestnuts (10 July 2014)

My horse will kill a dog if it enters his field or stable. To me this is perfectly natural, I wouldn't sell him nor reprimand him for it. He is a perfect gent under saddle with all animals but his field and herd is his to protect.

 As far as I'm concerned neither animal is at fault in your case, your friend is for letting her dog 'mooch' about within range of your horse. I wouldn't get rid of my horse to make someone who was at fault feel better.


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## Spring Feather (11 July 2014)

Your horse acted in a totally natural way.  He did nothing wrong.  The dog shouldn't have been close to any horse especially if it is a small dog, and if it had to be then the owner should have kept it close to her.  Where I live we have coyotes and if one ever dares come into my pasture fields all of my horses react in the same way, they will strike and pounce on strange dogs; it's normal.  Having said all that, it is sad and I do feel for your friend.  She has learned a lesson the hard way.


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## Clare85 (11 July 2014)

What a sad situation op, my sympathies to all involved. I agree with others that you should not have to move your horse on because of this. 

We trained our dog to wait for us at the gate when we brought the horses in from the field and he was never allowed to just roam in there. He ventured into the field on his own once and was immediately chased by one of them. Luckily he was very speedy and so got away, but he never ever went in the field with them again. Horses cam be very territorial in their field, it's only natural. 

When things are less raw, have a chat with your friend and give each other a hug. I'm sure she would feel worse if you lost your horse because of this situation


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## Suechoccy (11 July 2014)

What a terribly hard and sad way to learn a lesson in life, that loose dogs and loose horses together can prove fatal for the dog.   Most of us have done it and trusted them together at some point or another too and we've been mainly lucky to get away with it.  

It is in the dog's nature to chase and be around the heels of a horse, it is in the horse's nature to strike out at a predator or kick if feeling threatened/chased.

Nothing to blame on the horse and no reason at all to rehome the horse.

Your friend may be feeling terrible that she let her dog loose that day. Such an awful way to lose a pet. 

Be supportive for each other.  I think the idea another poster said of the pair of you getting together over tea and biscuits or a bottle of wine to talk and cry with each other will be a massive help for both of you.  

Gentle hugs to both of you.


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## Micky (11 July 2014)

Agree with Stormox...


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## Thistle (11 July 2014)

Tiddlypom said:



			You are all understandably in shock. 

However, the dog should never have been allowed in a situation in which she was at risk from your horse, or anyone else's. 

What a horrible way to learn that lesson, though.
		
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this absolutely. The horse is blameless


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## Clodagh (11 July 2014)

So sorry to hear this. How awful for you both. My best friends horse killed my horse of a lifetime by kicking her in the field and breaking her hock. We got over it, although yes it takes time, there is always guilt on both sides. Be calm.


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## cptrayes (11 July 2014)

My horse killed a friend's dog when she let him run loose in the field, which was hers. I moved the horse straight away because I felt so bad about it, and she wasn't a 'best mates' friend and I never saw her again. I understand exactly how you feel, you know in your heart it's not your horse's fault but the guilt at causing your friend pain is really awful.  I think you friend will also be feeling very guilty at causing your upset. Try to stave off any decision for three months, by loaning your horse maybe, and see how you both feel then.


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## MotherOfChickens (11 July 2014)

very sad all round. Your horse isn't bad though, he's just being a horse. My old horse was OK with dogs but a few yards where dogs were allowed to round him up/snap at his nose over the door and chase him in the field (not my dogs) and all tolerance went. The last dog that went in his field got a drubbing and was lucky to make it out-front feet and teeth. he also wouldn't tolerate them near him when tied up in the yard. My old YO sad he also saw him chase a fox out of the paddock. Both of my Exmoors have been known to raise a leg or snake their heads with dogs that get too close and tbh, I am glad of it-rather a horse that will not go into flight mode when it meets dogs out and about or one gets into their field. 

losing any animal suddenly is traumatic, try not to make any rash decisions. Although feeling sad for your friend is understandable, your guilt is misplaced.


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## wowser (11 July 2014)

accidents happen, she will forgive you, you will forgive you horse, anything with a brain is unpredictable


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## RunToEarth (11 July 2014)

RedDevlin said:



			You've all made me feel better. Thankyou. In one of her few short messages to me today she has said she doesn't expect me to sell him and he's my boy and she knows I love him. She is blaming herself wholeheartedly and its breaking my heart. She isn't coping and I don't know how or if she'll ever get over it. So she isn't guilting me into selling...I just don't know what's best. Its reassuring to know I don't have a monster pony though 

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I think you just need to give her some time to come to terms with it. As desperately sad as it is for you both, horses and dogs are not a good combination and I will never have our littlies running around when the horses are out. It's a hard lesson to learn and I hope your friend feels happier soon.


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## LittleMonster (11 July 2014)

Haven't read the all Replies but unfort things like this do happen... 
I don;t think selling/loaning is the answer here but that is up to you.

I have never let R loose with horses as she means far too much to me to be put in unpredictable situation, so she has always stayed in the stable. 

Sympathy to you and the Dog owner xx


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## Abacus (11 July 2014)

I agree that selling your horse may not be necessary and that the horse is not to blame, although I would be more careful in future with dogs.

To put it into a little context - my horse kicked my friend's daughter who was aged 5. We were both at fault - I was leading my horse ahead of her and her daughter, with her own horse. We should both have thought about it and made sure the little girl wasn't anywhere behind a horse (although we were at least 10 feet in front - he went backwards to kick, I think at her horse, but I can't tell). He kicked her in the head. Thank goodness she was ok, and I still don't know how it didn't do more damage, but obviously there could have been any outcome. My first instinct after the dust settled was to sell him - my friend not only keeps her horse and ponies there, but also lives opposite and sees my horse out of her window all the time. To her credit she has never blamed my horse and (goodness knows why) he is her daughter's favourite despite what he did. 

We talked about it extensively and I said that I was going to sell him; my friend told me not to be reactive and that it would be ok - which it now is. We learned some lessons of course. I hope yours comes to see things the same way.


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## thewonderhorse (11 July 2014)

AmieeT said:



			100% agree with this.

Animals will be animals no matter how domesticated we'd like them to be.

Not the dogs fault, not the horses. Just a sad accident.

Ax
		
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Definitely agree. My horse double barrelled my dog in the head just weeks after I had got him (the dog). 

I learnt my lesson - it was my fault, not the dog or horses. I was too complacent. 

Luckily he was okay, but he was knocked out for 5 mins and I thought he was dead.

You and your friend will both be very upset but I don't think selling your lad is the right way to go. A horrible lesson learnt .

Hugs to both of you xx


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## Meems (11 July 2014)

What an awful thing for you and your friend to be going through, such a sad situation.   

My horse (who I love to bits) nearly trod on my little dog a couple of weeks ago (who I love even more to bits).   My dog is getting old and just decided to wander in front of her just as my horse was walking into her field shelter, she literally missed treading on her by centimetres, it gave me a huge shock but luckily no harm done.

I can't offer any useful advice just that I guess you're wracked with guilt and your friend is traumatised, big hugs to you both x


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## unicornystar (11 July 2014)

It sounds like your friend is lovely, and doesnt want or expect you to sell your horse, and you shouldn't if he/she is what you need in a horse.  What I am finding hard to believe is that someone had a small/toy breed around a horse of ANY size in the first place?  We have shetlands and I dont even let the small dogs near them and they are unshod, one kick for maybe a fly bothering them would kill them in the right place.

The lab is the only guy allowed around any horse and he keeps a respectable distance and has the speed to get away if required.

I have seen so many horse try to "play" with dogs by lashing out their front feet, or indeed they can be aggressive.....

I think sadly your friend needs to take full responsibility for this one, you were not even there, it sounds like she does anyway, and I do feel for her loss, however, don't ever mix toy dog breeds with horses...it just doesnt work.  

So sad all round but please wait until you think of parting with your horse xxxx


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## _GG_ (11 July 2014)

RedDevlin, you poor poor thing. 

Your friend sounds like she is being as understanding as she can be and is being realistic about the reasons behind this happening. It's awful that she is having to go through the guilt, but the fact that she is feeling responsible means that her head is in the right place. 

Don't text, don't call...she's your best friend. You need each other. Go and see her and cry on eachother. 

When she tells you, as she already has and will keep doing for some time to come that it was her fault her dog is dead, you need to just do your best to remind her that accidents happen and regardless of the circumstances, we can wrap our pets in cotton wool but it wouldn't make any difference and things can just all go wrong. Tell her that guilt is natural, but not helpful and that at some point, she has to forgive herself and remember that no amount of beating herself up will change things or bring her dog back. Tell her that the best way to honour her dog is to live. Remember her dog, but live and be happy...that's all our dogs ever want for us as they try so damned hard every day to keep us that way. 

If the subject of your horse comes up, just play it by ear. Selling or loaning wouldn't be in my mind at all, but I am not you. You have to make that decision for yourself and if it is something you want to do, remind your friend that it is your decision. She may feel additional guilt if she thinks you are doing it for her sake, so you'll need to reassure of it being solely your decision if it is something that you go ahead with. 

Just talk, be there for her and don't worry about what to do or when to do it. Communicating with her and being the best friend that you are will mean it will all work itself out in the coming weeks and months. 

Just go and see her and give her a never ending cuddle. 

As for your own guilt, which I know you'll be feeling, forgive yourself too. You did nothing wrong, you know that and you know that these things can happen, so please remind yourself of that and do your own grieving for the loss of your friends dog, but absolve yourself of guilt and concentrate on being a friend xxx


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## niagaraduval (11 July 2014)

Horses are dangerous, yes it's sad, but the horse isn't going to understand that your best friend can no longer bear to look at him or the fact that you don't want him anymore because he killed a dog. 

I would never ever sell my horse because 'he killed a dog'. I don't think of that as a valid reason (although you don't need a reason to sell your horse).

He's a horse, he doesn't care, he doesn't know what he did.

RIP dog. 

I would try and comfort your friend instead of looking at selling your horse. She might need your support.


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## Meems (11 July 2014)

unicornystar said:



			I think sadly your friend needs to take full responsibility for this one, you were not even there, it sounds like she does anyway, and I do feel for her loss, however, don't ever mix toy dog breeds with horses...it just doesnt work.  

So sad all round but please wait until you think of parting with your horse xxxx
		
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I disagree, my toy breed dog has been around horses all her life, she always keeps a respectable distance away from them and apart from the 'close shave' she had with my horse which I described a bit earlier has never come close to being hurt.   
Medium and big sized dogs can get seriously hurt as well and I really don't think it's the owner's fault you can't keep your eyes on your dog every second they are around horses.


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## _GG_ (11 July 2014)

Meems said:



			I disagree, my toy breed dog has been around horses all her life, she always keeps a respectable distance away from them and apart from the 'close shave' she had with my horse which I described a bit earlier has never come close to being hurt.   
Medium and big sized dogs can get seriously hurt as well and I really don't think it's the owner's fault you can't keep your eyes on your dog every second they are around horses.
		
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I disagree with that. Where there is a risk, a person, as an owner has a choice. Accept the risk and run it, in which case you could end up with a dead dog. Or...chose to remove the risk and just not allow your dog to be loose or too close to horses. If you can't keep your eyes on your dogs all the time around horses and you don't want an accident to happen, you can choose to just not allow the dogs any access to the horses or vice versa. 

That's not a judgement by the way, what others do with their dogs is their business, but not allowing dogs around horses, unsupervised absolutely does mean the blame lies with the owner should something go wrong.


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## khalswitz (11 July 2014)

_GG_ said:



			I disagree with that. Where there is a risk, a person, as an owner has a choice. Accept the risk and run it, in which case you could end up with a dead dog. Or...chose to remove the risk and just not allow your dog to be loose or too close to horses. If you can't keep your eyes on your dogs all the time around horses and you don't want an accident to happen, you can choose to just not allow the dogs any access to the horses or vice versa. 

That's not a judgement by the way, what others do with their dogs is their business, but not allowing dogs around horses, unsupervised absolutely does mean the blame lies with the owner should something go wrong.
		
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Exactly. Our yard has a 'no dogs off lead' rule for this reason - annoys some people, but when my horse threatened a JRT that got a bit close people began to see why...


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## pip6 (11 July 2014)

My friends horse attacked mine. My horse was 9 years old, and it ended her competative career. I was devestated, it was almost like a death. Whilst I still had my horse, I'd never compete her again. It has a nasty streak (never been abused). Ironically a few weeks before owners daughter had a go at me for asking her to move the horse as I refused to walk mine near it as I knew it was prone to kicking out unexpectedly. She said she didn't understand why I was so against her horse. A few weeks later she attacked my mare in the field, witnessed by me and my friend.

My friend was beside herself. I never blamed her. I cannot bring myself to like her horse, but I feel nothing towards it. I'd never expect her to get rid of her. All I would insist on would be I'd never turn any horse I owned out with it ever again.

You have to accept animals for what they are. They do react instinctively. When things aren't so raw maybe you could offer to help find another dog? How about making a donation to a dog charity in memory of your friends dog?


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## Suechoccy (11 July 2014)

_GG_ said:



			RedDevlin, you poor poor thing. ... concentrate on being a friend xxx
		
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That's a lovely post. Heartfelt.


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## fatpiggy (11 July 2014)

WelshD said:



			Your friend needs to take some responsibility. if you let dogs mingle with horses there is always the chance of something happening, even an inncocent spook while tied up could kill a small dog.

Do leave it a few days for the worst of the upset to be over then broach the subject with your friend - a true friend would not want you to rehome your horse over this and IMHO is not the way to make things better
		
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Agree completely.  Many yards don't allow dogs on, end of subject, for exactly this reason.  The boot could easily have been on the other foot and the dog could have attacked your horse out of the blue and left it with an unrepairable injury.  It is a terrible shock and loss for your friend but two wrongs don't make a right.  A real best friend would never expect you to just dispose of your horse simply because it showed a known animal instinct.  My mare, until she was attacked and bitten, was completely blase about dogs (she didn't even try to kick the dog that attacked her) and was understandably very frightened of dogs thereafter.  She got better with dogs she knew and saw quite frequently but would shake and try to turn tail and run if she met a strange one.  One day though I was lunging her and the YO's dog was lying in the arena watching.  All of a sudden the devil came over my mare and she turned and ran at the poor dog. Now I could tell by her expression that she was only playing, but the dog didn't know and it legged it in terror. My horse visibly gloated at her triumph.  A few minutes later she took no notice of the poor dog whatsoever when we went back on the yard.   Supposing your friend, further down the line, decides she wants nothing more to do with the yard, moves her horse and refuses to speak to you again?  Then you have lost your horse and your friend.  And for what?


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## Red-1 (11 July 2014)

_GG_ said:



			RedDevlin, you poor poor thing. 

Your friend sounds like she is being as understanding as she can be and is being realistic about the reasons behind this happening. It's awful that she is having to go through the guilt, but the fact that she is feeling responsible means that her head is in the right place. 

Don't text, don't call...she's your best friend. You need each other. Go and see her and cry on eachother. 

When she tells you, as she already has and will keep doing for some time to come that it was her fault her dog is dead, you need to just do your best to remind her that accidents happen and regardless of the circumstances, we can wrap our pets in cotton wool but it wouldn't make any difference and things can just all go wrong. Tell her that guilt is natural, but not helpful and that at some point, she has to forgive herself and remember that no amount of beating herself up will change things or bring her dog back. Tell her that the best way to honour her dog is to live. Remember her dog, but live and be happy...that's all our dogs ever want for us as they try so damned hard every day to keep us that way. 

If the subject of your horse comes up, just play it by ear. Selling or loaning wouldn't be in my mind at all, but I am not you. You have to make that decision for yourself and if it is something you want to do, remind your friend that it is your decision. She may feel additional guilt if she thinks you are doing it for her sake, so you'll need to reassure of it being solely your decision if it is something that you go ahead with. 

Just talk, be there for her and don't worry about what to do or when to do it. Communicating with her and being the best friend that you are will mean it will all work itself out in the coming weeks and months. 

Just go and see her and give her a never ending cuddle. 

As for your own guilt, which I know you'll be feeling, forgive yourself too. You did nothing wrong, you know that and you know that these things can happen, so please remind yourself of that and do your own grieving for the loss of your friends dog, but absolve yourself of guilt and concentrate on being a friend xxx
		
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Beautifully put.


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## Equi (11 July 2014)

....Its a horse. The dog should not have been near its legs. Its horrible situation but i would not be getting rid of my horse because it killed a dog that was running around?


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## Meems (11 July 2014)

Well in my experience, dogs and horses normally rub along pretty well together.  I'm not including dogs that go out of their way to bark/chase/jump up at horses nor horses that have a complete dislike of dogs and will try and stamp on them at any opportunity (I've seen a few of both of those).

Therefore if it was just some awful thing that happened out of the blue then it is no one's fault and there is no blame to lay at anyone's door.    The OP's friend has lost her 'best friend' and the OP now feels wracked with guilt, an awful situation and I really feel for both of you.  Hoping that it in time it will feel less devastating and your friendship will withstand this xx


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## Orangehorse (11 July 2014)

How terrible for you both, you are grieving for the lost dog, and in shock.  There are good suggestions hear, about meeting up in a neutral place and having a discussion and a good cry.  I don't think you need to move or sell your horse.  You could offer to buy her a new puppy if you really feel so bad about it.

I had a pony that was a wonderful hunter and would let hounds get all round her and never take any notice, but she would try to stamp on any dog that was loose in the field and had a good go at killing a puppy once, luckily didn't succeed.  
These horses!


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## Gentle_Warrior (11 July 2014)

My sincere sympathies and this will prob not help you in the situation.

Was the dog on a lead ?  If it was not then not your fault in the slightest.  Horses are wild animals.  My horse has always been placid around dogs, until another liveries dog got into to the field barking and yapping and he started going towards it with his head on the floor to herd it out.  Luckily dog ran scared.  Dread to think what would of followed.

It did put a relationship on rocky ground though as I had to have words !!  The dog owner was well it is used to horses and needs to be taught a lesson if it over steps the mark, my response was if I wanted my horse to be hassled by a dog I would buy a bl**dy dog !!!  But if she is your best friend it was never a problem in your case.

Horses can be strangely possessive of their space when they like to be .... it is their prerogative which is why unless you are happy with the risk of a dog getting hurt .... keep it on a lead.

I feel for you though, but I dont think your horse should soley take the blame

xx


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## kathantoinette (11 July 2014)

I've not read all of the comments.  I totally sympathise with you.  Its not your fault - whatever has happened you can't control the actions of your horse.  My horse killed a dog last year on a beach.  I didn't know the owners and it was awful - I thought about it for ages.  From then on my dogs never mixed with my horse at home.  And I make sure everyone is aware on hacks out etc.
I feel that horses and dogs shouldn't be mixed, no matter how good they are with each other - as others have said its a hard lesson but why should you consider getting rid of your horse?  That's crazy.  Just give it some time.


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## Wiz201 (11 July 2014)

You'd never let children run around horses so why should dogs be different? Horses are not machines, just because they accept dogs one day, doesn't mean they won't spook around them another day.


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## Cinnamontoast (11 July 2014)

Not the horse's fault, no way should you sell him, although I understand your friend is heartbroken, as I would be. Difference being, I'd never let my dogs near enough to get hurt because an accident could happen.  So sorry for both of you, it's a horrible situation.


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## RoughcutDiamond (11 July 2014)

RedDevlin said:



			Thank you all. I think I will leave it until she's ready to talk. Thankyou for yous reassuring words. Someone mentioned colts getting field protective and he does occasionally come across quite 'riggy' like when mares are about ...perhaps its related?
		
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My lad is the kindest most laid back character who will nuzzle the yard cats if they sit on the wall of his stable and looks at the yard dogs with kindness when in hand.......but at liberty, he's a different kettle of fish.  18 months ago he was in the school with a treat ball while I mucked out.  I went to bring him in and had a customary game of footie - he chased the ball and rootled about whilst one of the kits came through the fence for a cuddle.  She then got down and the next thing I know he's flat out, ears back, head down chasing her up the school.  Stupidly I initially stood in his way (though the situation did change awfully quickly), then leapt back.  As he passed me the cat went through the fence out of reach, he gave a squeal and an angry buck.  I remember thinking "there's enough space...no there's not....****!" and thankfully put my arm across my face.  His hoof connected with my elbow and I was in the dirt.  I've never been scared of him before but despite the pain and shock I got out of the school mighty fast as he simply seemed angry and although I was sure he wouldn't hurt me deliberately it was as if red mist had descended in his mind.  Fortunately his frog hit the point of my elbow and because my arm was bent I had minimal bruising from the shoe.

I remember a previous yard owner saying he'd chased her dog across a large field once but she made out that the dog was a wuss and pony only wanted to play!  A couple of weeks ago I went (with current YO) to fetch the herd in.  Dave was one of the last and we didn't realise the two dogs had followed us down to, and into the field.  I only realised when, just before I reached him the ears went flat and his neck extended, looked around, saw the dog and got out of the way this time.  I'm in little doubt that he would've stomped on her if he'd reached her.

I've become very good friends with YO, and she has seen this behaviour in him yet still, from time to time the dogs come to the field entrance.  Frankly I am terrified of the potential outcome and more than a bit surprised that she's happy to rely on the dogs staying outside the gate on command.  It would break my heart if pony hurt either of the dogs (or worse) but I already know that YO would have to take a lot of the responsibility.  Much as I dislike this behaviour it seems to be pretty natural in a territorial way and I could never condemn my lad for ending up in a situation which could be avoided with a bit of thought.

Hope you guys can resolve things, awful situation.


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## orionstar (11 July 2014)

Horrible position to be in, but I'm afraid there is always a risk to loose dogs around large livestock including horses. I once watched my mare sneak up behind my deaf English Bull Terrier and stomp on him, and if he'd been a smaller dog it would have been a gonner, but I can't blame the horse for that, she was simply defending her field from an unwanted animal, even though that dog meant the world to me. Horses do not have human emotions, so you can not say the horse did this deliberately!


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## Honey08 (11 July 2014)

What a horrible thing to happen for you all. There's no point in feeling guilty now (both of you), give yourselves time and be there for each other, your friendship shines out - the way that you thought of re homing your horse to spare her feelings and the way that she didn't want you to because she knows you love him...  Of course she (and you) are really upset, but you will get over it in the future.


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## Grumpy Herbert (12 July 2014)

This is a very sad situation, and I feel desperately sorry for your friend - and for you.  As has already been said, horses are unpredictable.  My gelding will happily chase, terrorise, attempt to stomp on any small creature that goes in his field - it's horrible to watch, but I make sure that everyone knows to keep their dogs well away from him.  I know this was unexpected, but I really don't think you can blame your horse entirely - if it was a little dog, then he may have been startled by it in his line of vision and struck out in defence.  Could you move your horse to another yard for the time being, give the dust a chance to settle?  In the cold light of day, I hope your friend will accept that ultimately she was responsible for keeping her dog safe.


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## puss (12 July 2014)

My horse hates dogs and would kill one but the end of the day you take your dog up the stables it's the risk you take. I have a dog I take up the yard he stays on the lead taught never get close but if any thing happened to him it's my fault not the horses and never ask someone to sell get rid no matter


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## wattamus (12 July 2014)

Didn't want to read and run. At the risk of sounding harsh (and I don't mean to be because I am a full on animal lover) what happened wasn't your fault and the end of the day your friend needs to understand that bringing her dog down to a yard full of horses carries a risk. It must be very difficult for both of you to look at your horse in the same way at the minute but it doesn't bean that you should get rid of him by any means.
My two have never bothered round dogs but if there are dogs running loose on the yard I assume that the owner knows the risks and would accept the consequences of their choices should anything happen. If my horses did do anything I'd feel guilty but I wouldn't get rid of them because of it.
Chin up, things will get better- It'll just take a bit of time xx


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## debbielinder (12 July 2014)

Unfortunately there is always risk with dogs around horses I wouldn't sell the horse accidents happen very sad and horrible situation


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## _GG_ (12 July 2014)

I think it's worth a little reminder here that the OP has already stated that her friend is already blaming herself and taking full responsibility and that she has not asked the OP to sell her horse. 

It's an awful situation, but I think both the OP and her friend are handling it all really well. My thoughts are with both of them xx


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## mystiandsunny (12 July 2014)

Let her grieve, then make a decision.  Horses on livery yards are always more unpredictable than you'd think.  Too much coming and going during the day, when horses move yards, unsuitable personality mixes, etc.  I had one of mine on a yard for a bit for some schooling and hated the way they all were in the field.  At home, I have my toddler and my dog with me, no problems.  I was wary of going into the field myself at the yard - there were a few horses you really couldn't trust, and they'd upset the others so you couldn't always trust them either.


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## julie111 (12 July 2014)

Hi op, you need to give yourself time! You are both feeling very raw at the moment. Unfortunately horses do get territorial in their fields. A very sad situation, RIP little dog and (((hugs))) to you and your friend xx


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## mandwhy (12 July 2014)

Poor little dog, and I feel for you and your friend. Unfortunately I agree that a horse can never be 'blamed' for this. I don't let my dog in the field generally but once he came under the fence and was sniffing around, the most dopey gelding who is so sweet and kind and never right or aggressive suddenly charged at him head lowered, thankfully he was far away enough for the dog to get out of the way, but I wouldn't risk him being in the same field again. My mares seem to want to mother him, that's fine they can do it over the fence.

Despite the rational side, I would still find it hard to even look at my horse if it had done something like that, so for that reason I would understand if you did want to sell. Do make clear to the buyer that he should never have loose dogs around him though, it's only fair.


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## FfionWinnie (12 July 2014)

Unless the horse went by it's self and opened the car and let the dog out into the yard and then deliberately trampled it to death, then this is human error, not the horses fault. 

A hard lesson for you/your friend but no reason to make it worse by selling your horse. 

I am a shepherd and often am asked to gather sheep out of fields of horses always with the stupid line "they are fine with dogs". No they are big animals which often take stupid impulses to run around and stomp for no reason. Never ever risk it.


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## RedDevlin (17 July 2014)

Thankyou all so much for you kind words and advise, I really appreciate that you've taken time out of your day to reassure and console me. I agree with pretty much all the comments and I know my horse isn't at fault. I don't blame him for being a horse.
The decision to sell/ loan was based on the fact that much as I adore him, I do feel a more competitive home would suit him anyway, whilst he's happy with me and we do lots of things together, I can't compete which I think he would thrive on. 
I'm still undecided on what to do, it doesn't help when I have a really good schooling session then go for a blast in the newly cut field and he doesnt put a hoof wrong! He was a doll.
I was unsure about what to do with him because we share duties with the horses, doing them together gives me a day off here and there and means we can hack out together, give each other lessons and generally be there for support. Unfortunately now obviously, anytime she looks at my horse , all she sees is him stomping on her baby. Which haunts her now and will for a time. I think she knows deep down he's not to blame but it's hard to disassociate when he was the one that ended her life.

As _GG_ has pointed out, she really blames herself, and it's heartbreaking for me to see her with so much regret and guilt for the whole situation. The dog, though a small breed, was a true outdoorsy pooch and loved nothing more than galloping about. In this instance there were two people, my friend and another. The other was asked to hold the dog as my horse can sometimes be a handful if he gets the wind up him, he is just five so can sometimes be cheeky. At some point the dog was put down and went to my friend, which is when the horrific incident happened. So not only does she blame herself but also the other person. 
I have not received any blame from her, at all. And has said she wouldn't want me to sell him in a rush and would never ask me/expect me to. I would never sell him to just any home and it would have to be someone special, as he's special to me. But it wasn't a decision out of hate/dislike of my horse, but more support for my friend.

She is my foremost in my mind. She has been up the yard once since, but found it difficult. The drive runs along the same field where it happened and she feels betrayed not only by the horse she helped me break, but also equines in general. The dog meant the world to her, she was her baby, and she slept with her everynight of her 7 or so years. She has also been in my life for that amount of time so it's heartbreaking to know something I own took something that meant so much to my best friend, regardless of who was ultimately to blame.

So please don't think I made the decision lightly or on a whim, though it may have been somewhat of a knee jerk reaction! I just feel like I want to explain my thinking as opposed to being seen as a 'oh I'll just sell him and get another less dog agressive one' kind of person. 

Again, thankyou all so much for your words, and it has helped me tremendously in not blaming myself, or Dev <3 You've all been great!


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## Feival (17 July 2014)

Betrayed by a horse. She really has no idea has she. They don't do betrayal they act on instinct. There is nothing you can do now, it was an accident. There is no decision to make. You weren't thinking of selling him before this so there is no need to be now. I really don't get how you or your friend can feel it was done on purpose. It was an accident. Sorry


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## RedDevlin (17 July 2014)

The Polo Bear said:



			Betrayed by a horse. She really has no idea has she. They don't do betrayal they act on instinct. There is nothing you can do now, it was an accident. There is no decision to make. You weren't thinking of selling him before this so there is no need to be now. I really don't get how you or your friend can feel it was done on purpose. It was an accident. Sorry
		
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Neither of us feel it was done on purpose. She's grieving, but she knows this. 

She saw her baby pummelled by the front hooves of my horse (regardless of who's fault or on purpose or not). She had to pick up her lifeless body with her eyes out of her skull and blood pouring out of her mouth. She has to live with the fact that she led her most precious thing to her death. I'm lucky that I wasn't there and have only my imagination to provide a picture, but she sees her baby that way anytime she sees my horse. And I hope for your sake you don't have to ever experience the same thing happen to something you love so unconditionally.


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## Clodagh (17 July 2014)

I'm so sorry, awful for all of you.


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## cobgoblin (17 July 2014)

It was an accident, full stop! I wouldn't trust any of our horses with a small dog.
It sounds as though you have a good horse there. So why would he be happier in a competition home? All horses care about is being safe and looked after, preferably by people they love - they have no idea about ambition.
I'll ask you two questions:
If it had been your dog that was killed by your horse, would you blame yourself or the horse?
If you sell the horse, are you punishing yourself or the horse?

Whatever you do your friend will continue to see what happened in her mind for some time I'm afraid.


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## Fairynuff (17 July 2014)

what a story!


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## Meems (17 July 2014)

Oh gosh, it's just so awful for both of you.   Hopefully time will help to heal, ever since I first saw this thread I've been extra vigilant taking my dog to the yard.

 RIP little doggy xx


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## Mariposa (17 July 2014)

What an awful thing to happen, I'm so sorry for both of you and the little dog. Accidents do happen, heartbreaking as it is - it was an awful tragic accident


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## Regandal (17 July 2014)

it is awful what happened, but - her 'baby'???  No, it was her dog.  I have a sneaking suspicion you feel you have to get rid of the horse because at the moment your friend has the moral high ground.  Sorry.


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## Amymay (17 July 2014)

So, who's looking after her horse?


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## Crabby (17 July 2014)

I thought if you and this thread this morning when my friend posted photos of her little terrier puppy 'getting to know' her horse.
My sympathies to you both. Can't be easy for either of you


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## Shantara (17 July 2014)

I'm not sure if people are reading the update or not...

I feel so sorry for your friend  I couldn't imagine losing an animal in such a way...especially since by the way you describe it, it wasn't exactly a clean kill either. It was hard enough watching my Annie go and she was pts quietly in her home at the grand age of 16! 
It must be so upsetting for all of you. It sounds like she never really blamed you, but is just understandably upset. I hope in time, you can go back to the way you were before


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## Sugar_and_Spice (17 July 2014)

How will you feel if you sell the horse then your friend moves yards or decides to give up horses and is no longer around to help you out? Myself and most people I know aren't in near daily contact with any life long friends we have. The friends we see most often seem to be generally only around for a few years before lives go along different tracks and contact becomes less frequent or ceases altogether. You could potentially have your horse around for a lot longer than your best friend. I wouldn't get rid of my horse for anybody. I don't think your horse needs a competition home either, horses have no concept of being "wasted" in a leisure home.


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## TeamChaser (17 July 2014)

I feel so sorry for you both - really horrible.

As you say, your friend will clearly blame herself and will have to come to terms with that but it will be very raw for a while. I always used to let my dogs come and mooch around the field as I trusted my horses and fairly recentlg my ISH ran over my Cocker. Def did it on purpose, made no attempt to avoid him but thankfully my little dog was ok. However, I will NEVER let the dogs loose in the field with the boys again. Completely my own fault and I felt absolutely dreadful having put my little dog (whom I naturally absolutely adore) at risk. I can only imagine how your poor friend must feel

Try not to let this affect how you feel about your horse, he's not to blame. My ISH also actually kicked me recently about 2 weeks after running over the dog! He was a little unpopular for a few days but I accept that he's a horse and will behave as such and complacency around them (which is easily done when you handle them daily) is a dangerous thing

So sorry for the loss of your friends pup in such horrible circumstances, I hope you can help each other to heal xx


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## Wiz201 (17 July 2014)

Horses do not need competition homes, he will not know any different. Please don't sell him for that reason either.


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## paddi22 (17 July 2014)

why on earth are you thinking of selling your horse???. You said yourself you have a great time on him - horses have no concept of 'competition homes' and are never wasted with someone who loves them.

Hard to believe now, but this will pass. Your friend will get over it and probably get another dog who she will love equally. I'm sure this time she won't allow it loose around horses. But she will get over this. I had a horrific thing happen and never thought i'd sleep again, but it passes and time heals, it really does. Shock is horrible and feels like it will never end, but it does, and pain fades to a memory. Your horse did nothing wrong, so please please don't sell him, it's not fair on him. Or at least wait 6 months or so and see how you feel then. 

Your friend made a horrible error letting her dog loose, all blame should be on her. Subconsciously she might be putting vibes across that its others fault to help ease her guilt, so don't let that happen. She mightn't even know she's doing it. But please don't sell your horse. . Its horrible a dog was killed but it was two animals with instincts reacting to each other.  Imagine in a years time your friend has a new dog and is happy around the yard, and you have sold your horse and someone else is out enjoying galloping it in fields in the summer. And you haven't found a new horse you've clicked with. It would be awful. Time will make this pass, so please don't sell your horse.


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## bumper (17 July 2014)

paddi22 said:



			why on earth are you thinking of selling your horse???. You said yourself you have a great time on him - horses have no concept of 'competition homes' and are never wasted with someone who loves them.

Hard to believe now, but this will pass. Your friend will get over it and probably get another dog who she will love equally. I'm sure this time she won't allow it loose around horses. But she will get over this. I had a horrific thing happen and never thought i'd sleep again, but it passes and time heals, it really does. Shock is horrible and feels like it will never end, but it does, and pain fades to a memory. Your horse did nothing wrong, so please please don't sell him, it's not fair on him. Or at least wait 6 months or so and see how you feel then. 

Your friend made a horrible error letting her dog loose, all blame should be on her. Subconsciously she might be putting vibes across that its others fault to help ease her guilt, so don't let that happen. She mightn't even know she's doing it. But please don't sell your horse. . Its horrible a dog was killed but it was two animals with instincts reacting to each other.  Imagine in a years time your friend has a new dog and is happy around the yard, and you have sold your horse and someone else is out enjoying galloping it in fields in the summer. And you haven't found a new horse you've clicked with. It would be awful. Time will make this pass, so please don't sell your horse.
		
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I really do very much agree with paddi22


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## _GG_ (17 July 2014)

Red Devlin, 

You didn't need to justify anything but you have done it well. Whether you choose to sell your horse or not is your call so the opinions of others on the matter are irrelevant. I wouldn't sell, but I can understand why you are considering it. Again, don't do anything in any short time frame. I'd actually wait the year out...the only way your friend will overcome the pictures in her mind of your horse is by replacing them. The only way she will overcome the picture in her mind of her dog on that day is to replace them with good memories. 
Your friend is going to have to man up a bit in the sense that she needs to put this all into perspective. The loss of a dog like that is extremely hard to bear, but worse things will happen in her life and so she needs to learn how to grieve and move on. As hard as that sounds, it is true and sometimes it means having some tough conversations. Being the always nice friend doesn't always equate to being the best friend. Sometime we need to put someone's long term mental health ahead of their current feelings. 

Of course the dog isn't a baby...neither are mine but I refer to them as that, especially Stig and it in no way reflects on the fact that I know they are dogs and they get treated like dogs. No babying, no treats, no eating my food, no running riot. They are dogs, but I love them as part of my family and I don't think anyone should belittle what this dog meant to your friend. 

You, as her friend, need to get her back up that yard with a plan. Not just a visit where she has the freedom to dwell, but with a plan to do something. When she invariably says she can't or it's too much, you need to dose out a little tough love. You need to tell her that ignoring her horse won't bring her dog back and in the long run, will only add to her guilt, so she needs to just get on with it. 

It's been long enough...she needs to wake up from it a bit now. Think Iron fist and velvet glove. Treat her gently but don't be afraid ot be hard for her long term benefit.


xxx


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## Wagtail (18 July 2014)

OP I think you are such a kind and caring friend. I think some people do not realise just how much certain animals can mean to us. I have had many animals in my life and have loved them all. But they are not equal. My mare who I lost last year meant more to me than I could ever start to describe and the pain from her loss is still very raw and cutting. It physically hurts when I think to the day I had her PTS. I have one little dog who also means the world to me. She is a JRT but as small as a Chihuahua. The thought of her being squashed like your friend's dog is an unbearable thought and I think it would take me years to get over it. Even though it was not your horse's fault, I think I would feel the same way as your friend. Your horse was just being a horse, but I really don't think your friend will ever be able to forgive him.


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## marmalade76 (18 July 2014)

WelshD said:



			Your friend needs to take some responsibility. if you let dogs mingle with horses there is always the chance of something happening, even an inncocent spook while tied up could kill a small dog.

Do leave it a few days for the worst of the upset to be over then broach the subject with your friend - a true friend would not want you to rehome your horse over this and IMHO is not the way to make things better
		
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Horrible thing to happen but I agree with this.


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## EmmasMummy (18 July 2014)

WelshD said:



			Your friend needs to take some responsibility. if you let dogs mingle with horses there is always the chance of something happening, even an inncocent spook while tied up could kill a small dog.

Do leave it a few days for the worst of the upset to be over then broach the subject with your friend - a true friend would not want you to rehome your horse over this and IMHO is not the way to make things better
		
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I have to say 100% this.  My mum has a mini schnauzer, and my horse at the time was an aged Anglo mare, and despite seeing that dog ever day for a year she went for it one day.

If it was a very small dog then she really shouldn't have had it around LARGE animals.  We warn children that horses are unpredictable and dangerous yet let dogs run around them.  A dog is a horses predator, whatever its size. 

So do not feel bad. It was NOT your fault or your horses.  He is an INNOCENT animal.


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## _GG_ (18 July 2014)

Wagtail said:



			OP I think you are such a kind and caring friend. I think some people do not realise just how much certain animals can mean to us. I have had many animals in my life and have loved them all. But they are not equal. My mare who I lost last year meant more to me than I could ever start to describe and the pain from her loss is still very raw and cutting. It physically hurts when I think to the day I had her PTS. I have one little dog who also means the world to me. She is a JRT but as small as a Chihuahua. The thought of her being squashed like your friend's dog is an unbearable thought and I think it would take me years to get over it. Even though it was not your horse's fault, I think I would feel the same way as your friend. Your horse was just being a horse, but I really don't think your friend will ever be able to forgive him.
		
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Absolutely agree with this. I want to clarify that my post was aimed at the OP's friend not allowing her grief to overrun her life. Loss is a part of life and it's a part we have to learn to deal with. I can't even begin to imagine how horrific the memory of what happened is for her and I also agree that it could take years to get over it...if we ever actually do. Stig is my dog, the others are ours. I love them all so so much, but Stig is my boy and extra special to me and I know that when his time comes, I will be absolutely floored. We know Hollie doesn't have too long left, well, being a 15yr old collie, you'd think that, not that she's got the memo. 

I think I'm trying (and mostly failing) to say that as hard as it is and as much as it hurts, as an adult with another animal to care for, the OPs friend doesn't have the luxury of limitless time and it would most likely help her more to get her back out and about and being horsey. 

No, I don't think I could ever feel the same about that horse again, but that is association. Anyone saying that she shouldn't feel that way about a horse is being a little unrealistic. It's not blame, it's association and it's entirely understandable.


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## Switchthehorse (18 July 2014)

ooooo we do like a drama.

Whilst this is a sorry tale, and i feel for both of you in this position, i do also think we need to calm down a little bit.

My horse died, because of another horse, it happens a lot .. kicks etc.  Yes tragically my horse was like my child and i saw the aftermath, and yes i have to see that other horse every day... but i also have another horse to look after, so whilst i have to drive up the same drive and see them out in the same field I am not expecting the other person to sell their horse, i am not expecting anyone else to look after mine... **** happens with animals sometimes, its no ones fault, and you have to take the rough with the smooth.  I totally get why you feel guilty and why your friend is upset, but she needs to get back to the yard and look after her horse and try and move on.  And you cannot be held responsible - and you definitely shouldn't sell your horse because of this.

Accidents happen, whether its dogs, horses or humans. We can try out best to avoid them but they will still happen.  No one is responsible, everyone needs to try and move on

Good luck.


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## Dizzleton (18 July 2014)

I do find this quite odd to be completely honest; so I'm going to break it down.

1 - Even the most gentle, quiet, 'used to dogs' horses can fatally injure any animal; even when it's not provoked. How often have you see horses spook and act like theres a monster behind a bunch of flowers, when there's clearly nothing there. They see and sense things we don't. 

2 - No one is at fault 100%. Your friend let her dog mingle with loose horses. This is purely an unfortunate accident, just as horses kicking another horse and breaking its leg.

3 - There is no reason to sell/loan your horse. Again, the horse was doing this out of herd/self defence, even if the dog wasn't acting aggressive the horse has sensed him as a danger.

4 - Horses can NOT betray you. They are not capable of betrayal. Your horse did not do this maliciously. 

5 - Yes, the dogs owner will be heartbroken and it will take time to heal, but getting rid of your horse because of this will not solve anything.

6 - In the nicest way possible, you both need to calm down, talk it out and get on with your lives.


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## Templebar (18 July 2014)

I am another who would say don't sell your horse as I could see both of you selling them. You say this will be what yur friend sees everytime she will look at him, but it might be what sue sees looking at any horse on that yard. What good will selling your horse do if sue decides to leave horses altogether. 

Its a not like falling off either she needs to get back to the yard and take care of her other animals or she will go away while she grieves and then possibly come back when she is ready or stay away. i would go and see her, take her out and be a friend forget the horses for a night and help her, then be there for her when she feels ready to come back.


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## Grumpy Herbert (18 July 2014)

_GG_ said:



			Red Devlin, 

You didn't need to justify anything but you have done it well. Whether you choose to sell your horse or not is your call so the opinions of others on the matter are irrelevant. I wouldn't sell, but I can understand why you are considering it. Again, don't do anything in any short time frame. I'd actually wait the year out...the only way your friend will overcome the pictures in her mind of your horse is by replacing them. The only way she will overcome the picture in her mind of her dog on that day is to replace them with good memories. 
Your friend is going to have to man up a bit in the sense that she needs to put this all into perspective. The loss of a dog like that is extremely hard to bear, but worse things will happen in her life and so she needs to learn how to grieve and move on. As hard as that sounds, it is true and sometimes it means having some tough conversations. Being the always nice friend doesn't always equate to being the best friend. Sometime we need to put someone's long term mental health ahead of their current feelings. 

Of course the dog isn't a baby...neither are mine but I refer to them as that, especially Stig and it in no way reflects on the fact that I know they are dogs and they get treated like dogs. No babying, no treats, no eating my food, no running riot. They are dogs, but I love them as part of my family and I don't think anyone should belittle what this dog meant to your friend. 

You, as her friend, need to get her back up that yard with a plan. Not just a visit where she has the freedom to dwell, but with a plan to do something. When she invariably says she can't or it's too much, you need to dose out a little tough love. You need to tell her that ignoring her horse won't bring her dog back and in the long run, will only add to her guilt, so she needs to just get on with it. 

It's been long enough...she needs to wake up from it a bit now. Think Iron fist and velvet glove. Treat her gently but don't be afraid ot be hard for her long term benefit.


xxx
		
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Think this sums things up exactly.  It's a horrible thing to have happened, but it's time to start moving on.  Having said that, I don't think you should make any decisions about your horse's future while it's still fresh in everyone's mind - those sorts of decisions need a clear, unemotional and slightly detached mind and I don't think you're there yet.  I wish you and your friend all the best. x


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## Arizahn (18 July 2014)

RedDevlin said:



			Thankyou all so much for you kind words and advise, I really appreciate that you've taken time out of your day to reassure and console me. I agree with pretty much all the comments and I know my horse isn't at fault. I don't blame him for being a horse.
The decision to sell/ loan was based on the fact that much as I adore him, I do feel a more competitive home would suit him anyway, whilst he's happy with me and we do lots of things together, I can't compete which I think he would thrive on. 
I'm still undecided on what to do, it doesn't help when I have a really good schooling session then go for a blast in the newly cut field and he doesnt put a hoof wrong! He was a doll.
I was unsure about what to do with him because we share duties with the horses, doing them together gives me a day off here and there and means we can hack out together, give each other lessons and generally be there for support. Unfortunately now obviously, anytime she looks at my horse , all she sees is him stomping on her baby. Which haunts her now and will for a time. I think she knows deep down he's not to blame but it's hard to disassociate when he was the one that ended her life.

As _GG_ has pointed out, she really blames herself, and it's heartbreaking for me to see her with so much regret and guilt for the whole situation. The dog, though a small breed, was a true outdoorsy pooch and loved nothing more than galloping about. In this instance there were two people, my friend and another. The other was asked to hold the dog as my horse can sometimes be a handful if he gets the wind up him, he is just five so can sometimes be cheeky. At some point the dog was put down and went to my friend, which is when the horrific incident happened. So not only does she blame herself but also the other person. 
I have not received any blame from her, at all. And has said she wouldn't want me to sell him in a rush and would never ask me/expect me to. I would never sell him to just any home and it would have to be someone special, as he's special to me. But it wasn't a decision out of hate/dislike of my horse, but more support for my friend.

She is my foremost in my mind. She has been up the yard once since, but found it difficult. The drive runs along the same field where it happened and she feels betrayed not only by the horse she helped me break, but also equines in general. The dog meant the world to her, she was her baby, and she slept with her everynight of her 7 or so years. She has also been in my life for that amount of time so it's heartbreaking to know something I own took something that meant so much to my best friend, regardless of who was ultimately to blame.

So please don't think I made the decision lightly or on a whim, though it may have been somewhat of a knee jerk reaction! I just feel like I want to explain my thinking as opposed to being seen as a 'oh I'll just sell him and get another less dog agressive one' kind of person. 

Again, thankyou all so much for your words, and it has helped me tremendously in not blaming myself, or Dev <3 You've all been great!
		
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I'm sorry your friend lost her dog, but it was nothing to do with you or your horse. The responsibility lies with your friend and with the person who was supposed to be holding the dog at the time. Your horse is young and you say can sometimes be a handful. The dog should have been kept well away from him, and sadly wasn't  A horrible incident, but mistakes happen. 

Honestly, I would not sell because of this. Instead I would consider moving yards and/or perhaps looking into Full Livery to have the support needed. Although it may be moot, as your friend may well decide to get out of horses herself after this. And that would also not be your fault, OP. Please try not to burden yourself with unnecessary guilt.


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