# Donations on Facebook to buy a girl a horse...



## The wife (7 November 2013)

Now then I'm somewhat confused as to the morals on this... A Facebook page has been set up to enable people to give donations towards the cost of buying a horse for a groom who works on a dealers yard.  Said girl has bought rugs, Haynets and tack for horse but can't afford to buy her but states she can afford to keep it.  Low and behold people are donating £5 at a time and the dealer is promoting the cause.  Does this infuriate anybody else?  How people afford to throw money away like that at the moment is beyond me.  Just a little pointless rant more than anything but I find it really ridiculous.


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## Dizzydancer (7 November 2013)

You must be fairly local to me! That dealer is already someone I would tend to avoid with a bargepole due to behaviour but this took me by surprise, what happens if they don't get the full cost I cant see people getting money back!


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## SatansLittleHelper (7 November 2013)

Bluddy hell...what is wrong with people?? Cant she just save up like the rest of us have to?!
The world is going mad :eek3:


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## jhoward (7 November 2013)

is this the duchess one, ive just seen that on fb crazy isn't it, save girl!!!


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## Lynsey&Smartie (7 November 2013)

Crazy! Surely if she works for a dealer they can help find her a reasonably priced horse, which she can pay for by saving each month what she would be paying for livery/shoes etc. If she can't afford to save for a horse then she can't afford to have one in my opinion.


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## The wife (7 November 2013)

Yes it is the duchess one. I'm genuinely quite concerned, why won't they let her pay instalments or take it from her wages?! What is the world coming to?!

Here's the link  

https://www.facebook.com/cng.equine...al_comments=150&ref=notif&notif_t=share_reply


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## SatansLittleHelper (7 November 2013)

Wont let me open the link...grrr


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## Amymay (7 November 2013)

Think I may be blocked, as the page won't open for me.

But did hear about this last night.

Silly people.


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## Baggage (7 November 2013)

Fb page is unavailable so may have been taken down, wonder if someone talked some sense into them. Absolutely nuts but nothing surprises me in horse world.
Now that holiday to the Caribbean I've bought the clothes and the suitcase just can't afford the flights, any donations......


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## WelshD (7 November 2013)

amymay said:



			Silly people.
		
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Thats very restrained from you! 

The whole idea is crazy, if the horse was worth any decent amount I'm sure the dealer wouldnt even entertain this idea.


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## The wife (7 November 2013)

I've just commented on it so is still available  pretty much saying the above.


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## Goldenstar (7 November 2013)

Well that's an enterprising idea .
After yesterday I fancy a new trailer anyone want to chip in ?
NO ..... I thought not
The worlds a bit mad.


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## SatansLittleHelper (7 November 2013)

I could really do with a nice horsebox...donations anyone????


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## Baggage (7 November 2013)

The wife said:



			I've just commented on it so is still available  pretty much saying the above.
		
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Ah must just be mine then, got the gist of it from here though.


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## The wife (7 November 2013)

SatansLittleHelper said:



			I could really do with a nice horsebox...donations anyone???? 

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I would actually settle with a bottle of port... And it's not even a hunt morning. Donations anybody?


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## fburton (7 November 2013)

Will the donations cover the cost of _keeping_ the horse, which we all know is usually many times the initial cost of buying? If they won't, where will that money come from?

It's not so much the fact that she is getting a 'free lunch' that bothers me; it's the fact that it may be creating problems for people - and the horse - in the future (i.e. there ain't no such thing as a free lunch!).


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## The wife (7 November 2013)

This is what troubles me. I always reckon buying the horse is the easy part as it's a known quantity.  Keeping them on the other hand is a whole different entity.  Saying that I'm a realist and cynical for my years.  Just really grips me that there are 1000's of our elderly not able to afford heating yet donations are flying in to buy this horse to give the girl 'happiness' but I guess it all depends on what ones morals are.  Without a doubt this girl will get over her loss if the horse is sold, will those that die of cold and hunger?


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## Amymay (7 November 2013)

Goldenstar said:



			Well that's an enterprising idea .
After yesterday I fancy a new trailer anyone want to chip in ?
NO ..... I thought not
The worlds a bit mad.
		
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What the hell.

Send me your pay pal account details


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## babymare (7 November 2013)

Im starting to think people ate going crazy. havent been on page but pray tell me not many are donating and they are not strangers to girl. Sitting banging head on desk


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## webble (7 November 2013)

I not long ago saw someone selling tickets to raffle a horse!!


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## SadKen (7 November 2013)

A dealer near me is offering to give away a horse if they get enough facebook likes. 

It does say the home will be checked to ensure it's suitable.  Not sure how likely that is, but I think the idea is dubious myself.


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## Spyda (7 November 2013)

Sheesh.... now why didn't _I_ think of that last week when I lost my mare suddenly to an uninsurable loss and took out a loan to buy the next one. 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 Facebook! Why on earth didn't I think of that. Could have saved me interest rates!


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## Kitei (7 November 2013)

What's the page called, as the link doesn't work for me? (and I'm nosy)

If only the world worked that way.


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## The wife (7 November 2013)

Am I able to name the group. Or will admin not like me for it?


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## HaffiesRock (7 November 2013)

A bit different, but a friend near me takes in cats. She has 20 odd now in her little 1 bad house because she loves having them around her. They are not rescues, just where people cant afford/dont want them anymore and she tends to keep them. The problem is she cant afford them so spends lots of time on Facebook asking for money to feed them etc. I just find that a bit cheeky as id love a field full of ponies but cant afford them. I wouldn't dream of asking others to pay for them!


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## Shantara (7 November 2013)

That makes my blood boil!! 

I will promote my commissions if I am in a tricky spot, but I would NEVER outright ask for money!! I work hard to keep Ned, I've been dreaming of having my own horse all my life and I finally have one! 
Not just money hard work, but also hard work with Ned enabled me to have him. Grr.


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## webble (7 November 2013)

SadKen said:



			A dealer near me is offering to give away a horse if they get enough facebook likes. 

It does say the home will be checked to ensure it's suitable.  Not sure how likely that is, but I think the idea is dubious myself.
		
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A it could be the same person I am talking about


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## noodle_ (7 November 2013)

been removed?

whats the page?

sounds like madness!!


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## Carrots&Mints (7 November 2013)

c n g equine, i have been following them for a while via facebook, looks like they have about £132 already


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## sarahann1 (7 November 2013)

Sheesh, just when you think the world couldn't get anymore odd...

I've just had to pay a £450 vet bill, anyone fancy chipping in to help me get some money back into my bank account?! Also I have the chance of a wee coblet on f/t loan, anyome wanna chip in for his care??

As Pedantic would say, NOA.


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## Carrots&Mints (7 November 2013)

Ive seen a nice oakley supremacy... come on guys a few quid isnt gonna hurt your pocket!!!!


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## Fransurrey (7 November 2013)

Carrots&Mints said:



			Ive seen a nice oakley supremacy... come on guys a few quid isnt gonna hurt your pocket!!!!
		
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Aww, you know I would, but honestly, I need every pound I beg from the streets to go towards my DB5. If there's anything left over after I've got the furry dice, I'll chuck it your way. Howzat?

With regards to the original post, *Headdesk*


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## Pinkvboots (7 November 2013)

More fool the stupid people donating money its just crazy.

Oh and if anyone would like to donate towards my winter hay bill that would be lovely


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## noodle_ (7 November 2013)

have i got the gist right.... the dealer is trying to raise funds for themselves to "give" the horse to the girl?


i could do with a new bridle...................... paypal me please!?


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## JinglebellJessi & MistletoeMagic (7 November 2013)

I've just set up a website to pay for the ongoing care of my horse.
Please donate generously, she's in real need of a swarovski encrusted saddle. You simply don't understand the poverty she lives in.

www.payformyhorseyoumugs.com



I think half the fun of owning a horse is the fact that i can say that i pay for her by myself and i work hard for that. I can't imagine begging on a social media sight for someone to pay for me to buy a horse, no doubt there will be a page set up when it has a vet bill.


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## ridefast (7 November 2013)

I'm so pleased I'm not on facebook right now, was just thinking of re-activating again but this has reminded me why it winds me up so much. I would never ask for money (unless it was family members @birthday/christmas) but from complete strangers to buy me a horse??! Feel silly now though as my horses were paid for by me, through working and saving and never going out clubbing or shopping. I would really like my own yard now... anyone like to donate? It would make me happy


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## CrazyCobLady (7 November 2013)

Can't see the page sadly.


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## gmw (8 November 2013)

Can't afford to buy it? How the dickens is she going to afford to keep it livery or grass, feed it, VETS fees, dentist, farrier,rugs,the list is endless. Ridiculous. For want of a better word a scam?


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## piebaldsparkle (8 November 2013)

https://www.facebook.com/cng.equine?fref=ts

Flipping heck they have £477 already!


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## MadBlackLab (8 November 2013)

I do wonder if some people wake up in the morning and think what scam they can pull today. Then there is the people that donate. Do they have 'MUG' tattooed on forehead


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## Echo Bravo (8 November 2013)

Well if people are stupid enough to be parted from their money, who am I to disagree, just paid a large vet bill, so I shall come round cap in hand.


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## Dunlin (8 November 2013)

I've just found a penny in the lining of my jacket, every little helps!

Alternatively I would happy to donate £150 only if they would return the favour and donate £150 to me as I really want to buy some new boots and can't be bothered to work hard for non-essential things I want like most normal people!


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## Nugget La Poneh (8 November 2013)

The dealer obviously isn't feeling particularly charitable as they're not loaning the horse to the Groom or striking a deal themselves.

Quite frankly, the whole thing is farcical. Money could be donated to the RDA or the likes and be put to much better use.

Or to this - would buy nearly 100 saddle pads: http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/foru...-a-saddle-pad-for-the-working-horses-of-Egypt


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## Love (8 November 2013)

In a way I think it is very sweet that people are genuinely wanting to help and donating their hard earned money selflessly.... But I don't think they have thought about it at all. Like many have said, if the girl can't afford to buy it how can she afford th upkeep etc etc. 

I don't agree with them asking one bit but you can't deny that people are generous, albeit naive!


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## WelshD (8 November 2013)

I was right on the edge of donating  but accidently sent my money to this worthy cause instead http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/foru...-a-saddle-pad-for-the-working-horses-of-Egypt


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## Elvis (8 November 2013)

My horse looks sad, I think it's because he wants a dressage saddle.
I can't really afford one, but I figure you'd all be able to chip in? 


It's quite ridiculous that this girl is having any money donated. One of those 'what is the world coming to' moments.


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## awilliams (8 November 2013)

Jessi&Magic said:



			I think half the fun of owning a horse is the fact that i can say that i pay for her by myself and i work hard for that.
		
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I couldn't agree any more. In a sad way it feels great handing over my bill (*gulp*) knowing I've worked to pay for the thing I really love despite my bank balance doesn't look so pretty, just like everyone else.

I don't understand why the dealer isn't just doing payment in instalments with her.


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## Woody2013 (8 November 2013)

Jessi&Magic said:



			I've just set up a website to pay for the ongoing care of my horse.
Please donate generously, she's in real need of a swarovski encrusted saddle. You simply don't understand the poverty she lives in.

www.payformyhorseyoumugs.com

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Heart breaking lol


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## Adopter (8 November 2013)

mustardsmum said:



			Just had a quick look at the FB page, there was a post in reply to the latest total raised from someone who had loaned this girl a horse and had taken it back from her in terrible condition. Funnily enough, that particular wall post mysteriously disappeared in front of me (deleted by dealer I assume...) and only positive, supportive comments are now being allowed!  I find it incredulous that complete strangers will donate to buy a horse for someone they have never met, who already has a horse (or horses?) and who has previously had a loan horse removed from her care. And on the recommendation of someone who stands to gain from the sale!

If people really wanted the feel good factor that they keep blurbing on about on FB, they would be so much better off donating their money to RDA, Redwings or Horseworld or any of the other worthy charities, rather than lining the purse of some dealer, who is probably wondering why on earth they have never tried this scam before!
		
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I do agree with you, why do people get taken in.  Redwings, WHW, Blue Cross etc all have informative and interesting Facebook pages about horses, ponies they are helping, if that is what people want to do.
I wonder why Facebook allow appeals like this, which are so questionable.


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## rainycali (8 November 2013)

Such a shame that this forum has a reputation on other forums for being bitchy - having read all this it all makes sense why people avoid h&h forum


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## rainycali (8 November 2013)

rainycali said:



			Such a shame that this forum has a reputation on other forums for being bitchy - having read all this it all makes sense why people avoid h&h forum
		
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Dealer also put on Facebook that all the money will be donated to charity if this girl doesn't achieve her dream. But of course people forgot to read that bit before spouting off the 'dodgy' dealer pulling a scam!


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## Adopter (8 November 2013)

rainycali said:



			Dealer also put on Facebook that all the money will be donated to charity if this girl doesn't achieve her dream. But of course people forgot to read that bit before spouting off the 'dodgy' dealer pulling a scam!
		
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rainycali said:



			Such a shame that this forum has a reputation on other forums for being bitchy - having read all this it all makes sense why people avoid h&h forum
		
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This does not change my opinion, I do not agree with expecting the public to buy a horse for private use, if it was to buy a pony for RDA or similar I would think differently.


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## piebaldsparkle (9 November 2013)

Interesting comment from the dealer




			if Paiz manages to have her best friend then I would keep full control and would NEVER allow any horse to go somewhere they weren't going n to be cared for.
		
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So seems even if the money is raised horse will only be loaned.


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## rainycali (9 November 2013)

Read again! Nothing is mentioned about loan. Just the dealer making sure the horse will be looked after.


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## piebaldsparkle (9 November 2013)

rainycali said:



			Read again! Nothing is mentioned about loan. Just the dealer making sure the horse will be looked after.
		
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Only way to 'KEEP FULL CONTROL' of a horse is to keep ownership i.e. loan


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## mustardsmum (9 November 2013)

rainycali said:



			Dealer also put on Facebook that all the money will be donated to charity if this girl doesn't achieve her dream. But of course people forgot to read that bit before spouting off the 'dodgy' dealer pulling a scam!
		
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First, I am not "spouting off" merely expressing and opinion, which is my understanding of forums?

The reason I am doubtful of this, is because the person selling the horse has set up a fund for anyone to donate to, so that her groom can have the horse she is selling, therefore she has an interest in achieving a sale of the horse. This is neither "bitchy" nor "spouting" but mere statement of fact. My point is, more concisely, is that people are donating money to buy a horse for someone they have never met, they probably have not idea whether the girl can care for it adequately or fund the cost of livery, shoes, vets fees etc. Yes, the dealer has agreed to donate the money to charity if the total were not received, lets not forget but that is not the motivating factor behind the donations.

With so many internet scams now about, we should be able to question the validity of something like this.


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## rainycali (9 November 2013)

I understand wanting to question the viability of it but it has turned into a witch hunt on Facebook full of bitchy comments. If people are genuinely concerned they could have Messaged the page rather than slating someone they know nothing about - the majority of comments I read we're aimed to upset and hurt the feelings of the young girl and question the motifs of her boss.

At no point has anyone been forced to donate anything. It is a free choice an people have been kind enough to help this girl - there are some lovely caring people out there who by donating £1 which is the only amount every mentioned by the young girl can make her wish come true then why the hell not and good luck to her!


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## showpony (9 November 2013)

Maybe be naive but if dealer thinks that highly of his/her groom and wants her to have the horse they would put payment plan in place?

i don't agree with asking for donations to buy a horse.


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## SatansLittleHelper (9 November 2013)

showpony said:



			Maybe be naive but if dealer thinks that highly of his/her groom and wants her to have the horse they would put payment plan in place?
		
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My sentiments exactly!!!


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## rainycali (9 November 2013)

I've no Idea what she earns but payment plan on a grooms wage? You having a laugh? Grooms earn a pittance and I'm sure any spare wage would be going towards things like insurance, shoes etc etc.


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## SatansLittleHelper (9 November 2013)

Im afraid its pretty difficult to keep a horse on a pittance


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## rainycali (9 November 2013)

But plenty of people just about manage it!


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## bumper (9 November 2013)

Oh Lord! This sounds just a bit like the X-Factor...."Oh oh, but I WANT it so much". 
Really? 
Nobody donated my first horse to me...I WORKED for a long time to be able to pay for him MYSELF, and to be able to afford his upkeep.
What is going wrong with young people these days? I was taught "I want never gets". Sheesh.


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## Patterdale (9 November 2013)

Words fail me. 

What is it about Facebook that makes people just give money to random strangers for no good reason? I really don't get it. 

But at least I know of a new dealer to avoid now, always handy to have an insight into their idea of ethics and morals.


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## Camel (9 November 2013)

I'm really sad about this too, I thought they were one of the good guys! agreed about the profit thing, they usually sell horses around the 2k mark, making I presume around £500-£1k 'profit' (I know they bring them on, assess and tidy up but these costs could be absorbed by the company/the girl doing overtime for free?) 

So essentially they are generating themselves a profitable sale? surely that is unethical and will have caused the business' reputation dearly. 

Maybe it has all got a bit out of hand and they realise that it perhaps wasn't a great idea, how can they claw back their reputation and sort the situation out? I would suggest they give the horse to the girl AT COST and take a nominal sum out of her wages each week or she could do an extra hour for free each day to pay the debt and the money raised go to a reputable horse charity voted for by the people who donated.

And there endeth my twopenneth!  

xx


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## lucyhalf93 (9 November 2013)

I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks this is ridiculous! I was brought up to save my money for the things I want and if I can't afford it then I don't have it! 
I found it even more crazy when I saw she already has her own horses! 
Why don't people donate their money to a worthy cause like a proper charity!


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## babycham (9 November 2013)

lucyhalf93 said:



			I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks this is ridiculous! I was brought up to save my money for the things I want and if I can't afford it then I don't have it! 
I found it even more crazy when I saw she already has her own horses! 
Why don't people donate their money to a worthy cause like a proper charity!
		
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I totally agree. People do not appreciate things that are free, with no money value. If you work long hard hours, go without etc,m then you suddenly appreciate the things your work for. 

What happens if next week the dealer gets another horse that this girl falls in love with? Is this horse that cost her nothing, suddenly going to be passed on again? 

I am sure if this girl is only on a "groom" wage, then can she really afford another livery bill to pay? I am not judging her, just hope she is aware of the extra income needed, when only working on a "grooms " wages??


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## Fab1987 (9 November 2013)

Firstly I think it is important for everyone to be able to express their own opinions etc I would like to point out that I follow cng on fb I don't know them, have never dealt with them however from seeing this thread from the start they didn't ask anyone for any money, followers suggested setting up the account and many people offered straight away to donate, if people want to let them be, she's a groom it's not as if she is a complete novice who was never been around a horse before... There's plenty of those who shouldn't be let near a horse let alone to buy one but have money so they can!! I'm sure she is fully aware of the running costs of a horse. I have a fairly well paid job and work a second in order to help me keep mine but I could never afford to buy one outright, I have to rely on the bank of mum and dad but does that make me a bad or inexperienced person...no it doesn't. I have competed all my life but wouldn't have had that opportunity if my parents hadn't given me a chance and bailed me out when I made the wrong choice on a horse....best case scenario this girl gets a horse she loves and has been caring for anyway...worst case a charity get a hefty donation. A pound a pop is hardly a big deal is it and at no point has anyone forced anyone to donate Christ the way people were reacting you would have thought someone had been murdered, some people have nothing better to do than think ill of others :-(


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## Tinypony (9 November 2013)

Fab1987 said:



			Firstly I think it is important for everyone to be able to express their own opinions etc I would like to point out that I follow cng on fb I don't know them, have never dealt with them however from seeing this thread from the start they didn't ask anyone for any money, followers suggested setting up the account and many people offered straight away to donate, if people want to let them be, she's a groom it's not as if she is a complete novice who was never been around a horse before... There's plenty of those who shouldn't be let near a horse let alone to buy one but have money so they can!! I'm sure she is fully aware of the running costs of a horse. I have a fairly well paid job and work a second in order to help me keep mine but I could never afford to buy one outright, I have to rely on the bank of mum and dad but does that make me a bad or inexperienced person...no it doesn't. I have competed all my life but wouldn't have had that opportunity if my parents hadn't given me a chance and bailed me out when I made the wrong choice on a horse....best case scenario this girl gets a horse she loves and has been caring for anyway...worst case a charity get a hefty donation. A pound a pop is hardly a big deal is it and at no point has anyone forced anyone to donate Christ the way people were reacting you would have thought someone had been murdered, some people have nothing better to do than think ill of others :-(
		
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When people start to talk about raising money to buy one a horse, the decent thing to do is to state immediately that you do not want the donations to be made, and that the ethical thing to do is save to purchase your own horse.  

If people want to donate to a registered charity they should do that.  Saying that a charity might have benefited from this exercise is a complete red herring.
In my view allowing this to continue was very similar to begging.


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## The wife (9 November 2013)

I am really quite pleased that I am not the only one that thinks this is absolutely ridiculous.  I stated my opinion initially about my doubts in the original post, in a polite way and have since had my comments removed and been branded vile, jealous and bitter.  The jealousy one got me...  Jealous of what? Saving damn hard to keep my 2 beautiful horses on the road and out competing, all bought and paid for by myself? Working from dawn to dusk, like most of us to do so and blooming well proud of the fact that I do.  And yes rainycal, that is on a less than a grooms wage!

I just don't get the moral justifications of it.  Surely the young girl would be more beneficial to her own groundings and learning the value of money by doing it herself or the dealer setting up an instalment plan for her to pay monthly or as suggested let her buying at cost price with maybe a couple hundred added for her keep?  As far as I can see this is only a profit making exercise for the dealers.  They need a sale and people are willing to plough money into it.  End of.  I don't believe all the gumption about she would be the best person to care for the animal, a sale is obviously more important, otherwise the cost of horse would be reduced surely?


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## SatansLittleHelper (9 November 2013)

This whole thing leaves a nasty taste in my mouth to be honest. There are Charities that are DESPERATE for funds that are struggling and rely entirely on donations.
An example, although not horse related, are places like Hope House. My daughter is very severely disabled and we have to fight tooth and nail for any kind of funding for just about everything  She is life limited so we have alot of help from charities to make her short life a happy one (and yes I have a horse but I also go without pretty much everything for my daughters things). And then there are people like this who are having money donated left right and centre...really p*sses me off grrrrrr. I wouldnt dream of asking for money like this


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## koeffee (9 November 2013)

I love how you all know the full story and are all hiding behind a fake name???!!!! From what i know of Cng they are honest on their dealing, we all have to make a profit some where??? no different to going to work, they may sell one horse a month £2000 doesnt go far when you have to pay staff, feed bill and live??? i have friends who have bought from them and couldnt rate them highly enough, i was in this situation years ago when i worked with horses, they double the price on a horse i wanted at work but on my poor horse wage couldnt afford but horse was to be boarded as part of job, same thing as above except they are asking for help?? no offence but you lot preach a load of crap, i hate this forum because you all hide behind a computer. You have nothing better to do, so what if its your opinion and you dont agree with it, but keep it off a forum were it could effect someones living.


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## fburton (9 November 2013)

Illegally fraudulent?


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## Anglebracket (9 November 2013)

I don't see the problem with this. If people want to give her the money let them. It's theirs to do with as they please. I don't see why this is morally questionable, as long as there is no deception or blackmail involved.


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## The wife (9 November 2013)

koeffee said:



			I love how you all know the full story and are all hiding behind a fake name???!!!! From what i know of Cng they are honest on their dealing, we all have to make a profit some where??? no different to going to work, they may sell one horse a month £2000 doesnt go far when you have to pay staff, feed bill and live??? i have friends who have bought from them and couldnt rate them highly enough, i was in this situation years ago when i worked with horses, they double the price on a horse i wanted at work but on my poor horse wage couldnt afford but horse was to be boarded as part of job, same thing as above except they are asking for help?? no offence but you lot preach a load of crap, i hate this forum because you all hide behind a computer. You have nothing better to do, so what if its your opinion and you dont agree with it, but keep it off a forum were it could effect someones living.
		
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There is no hiding here, wouldn't take a rocket scientist to work out who I was from the posts! Personally I haven't slated them as a business, just their practices on this situation.


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## Nightmare before Christmas (9 November 2013)

I have no issue with the dealers but I do think it wasnt the best move for their business. Although look at the dealers that were last bought up on here (ticktock), they seem to be doing better than ever after some negative press!

I personally wont be giving money, I need it for my own horses and yes of course the dealer will be making a hefty profit. I do think a payment plan or something could have been worked out. Having worked with a dealer in the past I fell in love with many horses over the years but they were there for business and sold on as intended, if I wanted one I had to buy one like everyone else only I would get a small deal. 

I do find the whole thing crazy but then the horse world is going mad these days! No wonder I struggle to sell any horses as everyone expects something for nothing these days


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## BBD (9 November 2013)

a very poor decision, I was going to ring up and look at one of their higher value horses but I wont bother now because this shows they haven't got morals which id like in someone i was going to buy a horse off!
we would all love to ave someone pay for a horse for us but most of us realise thats not real life!!! Not really giving a good example to this young lady - if you want something GET OTHERS TO PAY FOR IT...
does she not have any family to help her?????


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## *hic* (9 November 2013)

koeffee said:



			I love how you all know the full story and are all hiding behind a fake name???!!!! no offence but you lot preach a load of crap, i hate this forum because you all hide behind a computer. You have nothing better to do, so what if its your opinion and you dont agree with it, but keep it off a forum were it could effect someones living.
		
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Perhaps you'd have done better posting this little rant under your own name


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## rosita (9 November 2013)

Insane, people are potty! After reading everything how are people suckered in to send money without investigating the situation properly?! There is no defence for the dealer or girl it's absolutely ridiculous and IMO they should send all the money back and ask people to please donate it to our fully stretched charities. Muppets everywhere.


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## Pidgeon (9 November 2013)

Rainycali do you know this dealer then?


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## southerncomfort (9 November 2013)

Tinypony said:



			When people start to talk about raising money to buy one a horse, the decent thing to do is to state immediately that you do not want the donations to be made, and that the ethical thing to do is save to purchase your own horse.  

If people want to donate to a registered charity they should do that.  Saying that a charity might have benefited from this exercise is a complete red herring.
In my view allowing this to continue was very similar to begging.
		
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Absolutely agree with this.  If the girl wanted this particular horse so badly then she could have sold the horses she already has to fund the purchase.

The whole thing stinks very badly of a money making scam to me.


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## CrazyCobLady (9 November 2013)

Deleted as got my answer.


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## Tinypony (9 November 2013)

koeffee said:



			I love how you all know the full story and are all hiding behind a fake name???!!!! From what i know of Cng they are honest on their dealing, we all have to make a profit some where??? no different to going to work, they may sell one horse a month £2000 doesnt go far when you have to pay staff, feed bill and live??? i have friends who have bought from them and couldnt rate them highly enough, i was in this situation years ago when i worked with horses, they double the price on a horse i wanted at work but on my poor horse wage couldnt afford but horse was to be boarded as part of job, same thing as above except they are asking for help?? no offence but you lot preach a load of crap, i hate this forum because you all hide behind a computer. You have nothing better to do, so what if its your opinion and you dont agree with it, but keep it off a forum were it could effect someones living.
		
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Not a lot of hiding going on for my part.

Principle - asking others to give you money for personal purchases is begging.  Allowing others to do it on your behalf, not a lot of difference.  As others have said, how gullible are people who send off their hard-earned cash as the result of internet appeals for personal gain?  What a shame the money wasn't fundraised direct for a needy registered charity.


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## DragonSlayer (9 November 2013)

Meh....

..I've found said page and smiled at it.

Although I find myself smiling at the fact someone is trying to get other people to fund the price of a new horse, I just think let them get on with it!

'A fool and his money are easily parted....'...

I will continue to donate money when I can, but I'll be giving to actual charities whose money is accountable and I know where it's going....

Leave 'em to it, live and let live and all that!

Peace all, the Season of Goodwill is approaching....


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## lucianna97 (9 November 2013)

i know this situation closely and believe that it was simply an act of kindness to match a horse to a perfect owner, the girl does have the money to keep the horse but as with many people cannot get the lump sum together quick enough before the opportunity had gone. i support this story fully and believe it is a great act of kindness from the dealer as they are getting nothing more than a normal sale apart from knowing the wonderful love the horse would get from the owner


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## Crugeran Celt (9 November 2013)

Am I being a bit dim here? Is someone asking for donations to buy a horse they can then afford to feed and all the extras that go with keeping any animal? If that is the case why aren't they saving that cost over the next few months and use to purchase a horse, they are very cheap at the moment! Saying that more fool the people giving the funds I am sure this girl hasn't got a gun to their heads.


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## CrazyCobLady (9 November 2013)

Very strange. Just found the page and noticed HHO forum has being named and shamed.. sad times..


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## StarlightMagic (9 November 2013)

Has anyone else noticed that this horse has been for sale for quite a considerable amount of time?!


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## Echo Bravo (9 November 2013)

My goodness, Koeffee what a lot of bile you spat out, there is an old saying fools and parted from their money and it seems someone has found the key, nothing wrong in commenting on it and saying how gullable sorry stupid some people can be and how some people can manipulate said stupid people.


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## mellymoo27 (9 November 2013)

People are allowed there opinions and mine is that Cng are a fab bunch of people, I have hada few dealings with them and also am very grateful for rescuing an old horse I once owned. I have one of there horses now who will be with me forever.  Please dont slate them without knowing them, yes there will be people who have had experiences they are not happy with but you can't please everyone all of the time.  There horses are extremely well cared for and homes are a paramount.  I can fully understand why some people have these views and know I maybe would feel the same if I personally didnt know these people. They work very hard and imo do a great job


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## glamourpuss (9 November 2013)

If this girl can get morons to part with their hard earned cash to pay for a new horse then let her. I'm almost tempted to say good on her. 
Yes it's sickening when we have worked hard to pay for ours (well actually I've never worked *that* hard for any of mine...the last one I bought cost me £5 )  but as much as I can see they appear to know what they are doing [shrug]. If they wanted to donate to a charity they would've done (who's not to say they don't do this as well) their money their choice. 
It's not something I would do in a million years but hey ho.
Genuine question why is this girl asking for a horse to be bought for her so offensive yet Mary King's daughter asking for a horse to be bought for her not?


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## CrazyCobLady (9 November 2013)

I'm just wondering why the horse hasn't being gifted or reduced to this girl seen as they're ''perfect together''


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## glamourpuss (9 November 2013)

CrazyCobLady said:



			I'm just wondering why the horse hasn't being gifted or reduced to this girl seen as they're ''perfect together''
		
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...because a load of imbeciles will just hand over cash instead


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## lucianna97 (9 November 2013)

because cng is a business and it would not be possibly for a horse to be gifted


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## CrazyCobLady (9 November 2013)

glamourpuss said:



			...because a load of imbeciles will just hand over cash instead 

Click to expand...

Certainly looks that way!


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## DragonSlayer (9 November 2013)

CrazyCobLady said:



			Very strange. Just found the page and noticed HHO forum has being named and shamed.. sad times.. 

Click to expand...

See, this is the sad bit.

Not all of us are saying they are nuts. Some of us are saying each to their own, I know I am! 

...but as usual, we are all lumped with being called 'sad middle-aged jealous women'..... 

If they wanna donate, let 'em! I won't be.....but heck! Let's just roll out that ole bully card again!

~sigh~


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## CrazyCobLady (9 November 2013)

DragonSlayer said:



			See, this is the sad bit.

Not all of us are saying they are nuts. Some of us are saying each to their own, I know I am! 

...but as usual, we are all lumped with being called 'sad middle-aged jealous women'..... 

If they wanna donate, let 'em! I won't be.....but heck! Let's just roll out that ole bully card again!

~sigh~
		
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Yep!


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## CrazyCobLady (9 November 2013)

There's so many status' on facebook about it. Somebody call the papers!


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## koeffee (9 November 2013)

jemima*askin said:



			Perhaps you'd have done better posting this little rant under your own name

Click to expand...

Click picture of horse and it tells you, or used to Im Mon Competition Stallions and nothing to hide either.


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## moosea (9 November 2013)

I just got banned from the site for asking for donations for a black BMW 3 series which I have bonded to


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## Nightmare before Christmas (9 November 2013)

that made me lol 


I have seen a nice 1.20 horse I like.

To be fair to them they have gained some publicity, made some money and the girls got the horse she wants. It was a smart idea all round really!


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## Ullybully (9 November 2013)

PMSL...


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## Amymay (9 November 2013)

moosea said:



			I just got banned from the site for asking for donations for a black BMW 3 series which I have bonded to 

Click to expand...


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## DragonSlayer (9 November 2013)

moosea said:



			I just got banned from the site for asking for donations for a black BMW 3 series which I have bonded to 

Click to expand...

Yes you devil..

You caused me to splutter my tea over my keyboard...


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## CrazyCobLady (9 November 2013)

I didn't realize she got the horse!


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## Amymay (9 November 2013)

They have some nice horses. Theodore is smashing.  Would love to see a decent jockey on his back.


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## Mrs. Jingle (9 November 2013)

I haven't read every page of this, nor have I seen the facebook page. I know it is very bad form to make a comment on a thread without reading every single minute detail therein. But I shall comment and be damned.  

We now have a second rate, hitherto not very well known dealer who has now managed, with a little help from his stable girl, to get his name and trade spread out far beyond even his wildest dreams. And the real plus is the pair of them have managed to pull in some very nice dosh at the same time from gullible members of the public. 

You have to agree it is a genius piece of marketing. OK, he might attract a few negative comments, but it would seem that they are FAR outweighed by all the interest now been shown in his trading stock.


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## lucianna97 (9 November 2013)

she hasnt


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## Ullybully (9 November 2013)

What u dont believe photographic evidence???

You work with her where?


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## ester (9 November 2013)

glamourpuss said:



			Genuine question why is this girl asking for a horse to be bought for her so offensive yet Mary King's daughter asking for a horse to be bought for her not?
		
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Because Mary King's daughter wanted the horse bought so that she could keep the ride not that she would then own it- the new owner/syndicate would still own the horse


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## Dizzy socks (9 November 2013)

Anyone here want to help me set up a counter fund? With proceeds going to an actual _charity_? If people are half as willing to donate to that, then thing how great it would be for needy horses!


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## lucianna97 (9 November 2013)

cannot open it.


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## Amymay (9 November 2013)

Can't open the first one.


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## Amymay (9 November 2013)

Poor lad. However, what was the reason for no regular checks from the owner?


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## Ullybully (9 November 2013)

Ok im backing off... no probs..    x


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## lucianna97 (9 November 2013)

this has absolutely nothing to do with this situation now and should not be brought up. this is cruel and she does not deserve all of this on the internet


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## Amymay (9 November 2013)

lucianna97 said:



			this has absolutely nothing to do with this situation now and should not be brought up. this is cruel and she does not deserve all of this on the internet
		
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Actually it's really important and has everything to do with the situation now.

People blindly donating to this sort of 'cause' need to be aware that in 99% of cases they are either a scam or a way way ticket to misery for some poor animal.

That ok on Principle'?


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## lucianna97 (9 November 2013)

and in this case they are neither


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## lucianna97 (9 November 2013)

well  people are allowed to donate if they want, its their decision whether they donate and it doesnt matter anymore anyway.


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## lucianna97 (9 November 2013)

thanks for judging me when u dont know me and no she wouldnt be neglected, the situation  wouldnt be available if it was suspected that she would be neglected


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## Amymay (9 November 2013)

lucianna97 said:



			well  people are allowed to donate if they want, its their decision whether they donate.
		
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You are absolutely right. But if a thread like this can prevent just one person from being so stupid, then that can only be a good thing.


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## lucianna97 (9 November 2013)

not really because it is biased and not a balanced thread at all, im one person fighting her corner against a lot and its unfair on any onlooker


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## lucianna97 (9 November 2013)

nothing has happened as yet with the horse but this is getting out of hand and needs to stop, fighting between us isnt going to get anywhere


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## Amymay (9 November 2013)

lucianna97 said:



			nothing has happened as yet with the horse but this is getting out of hand and needs to stop, fighting between us isnt going to get anywhere
		
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Glad to hear that. I'm assuming the money will simply be refunded this weekend then to all those who donated.....


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## CrazyCobLady (9 November 2013)

lucianna97 said:



			nothing has happened as yet with the horse but this is getting out of hand and needs to stop, fighting between us isnt going to get anywhere
		
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Okay, I will agree with you on that one.


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## CrazyCobLady (9 November 2013)

amymay said:



			Glad to hear that. I'm assuming the money will simply be refunded this weekend then to all those who donated.....
		
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However, this is also a fair comment.


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## lucianna97 (9 November 2013)

Nothing has been decided


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## Amymay (9 November 2013)

lucianna97 said:



			Nothing has been decided
		
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What, no decision on whether to keep the money or refund it?


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## lucianna97 (9 November 2013)

No decision on anything at all as many people support the situation also


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## Mrs. Jingle (9 November 2013)

lucianna97 said:



			Nothing has been decided
		
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Brilliant!


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## CrazyCobLady (9 November 2013)

Why is this particular horse so special?


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## Amymay (9 November 2013)

lucianna97 said:



			No decision on anything at all as many people support the situation also
		
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Hopefully the dealers are backing out of this idea. It will do their credibility no good whatsoever. Why they ever thought it was a good idea in the first place is beyond me.......


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## lucianna97 (9 November 2013)

It is special to her, she has bonded with the horse and the horse is also a lovely horse who is very sweet natured and stunning


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## Grinchmass (9 November 2013)

The dealer wants to retain full control, but people are donating so that the horse can be purchased. So which is it, a loan or a sale... Adds and extra argument to the ethical side of things is this is a loan, without it getting personal as to whether this girl is or isn't a responsible owner/loaner, which is a whole new kettle of fish.


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## CrazyCobLady (9 November 2013)

lucianna97 said:



			It is special to her, she has bonded with the horse and the horse is also a lovely horse who is very sweet natured and stunning
		
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But she could be sold to anyone?


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## lucianna97 (9 November 2013)

Yes


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## CrazyCobLady (9 November 2013)

lucianna97 said:



			Yes
		
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What is to stop one of us asking for donations to buy this horse?


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## Amymay (9 November 2013)

Ullybully said:



			They support it because they dont know the truth...
		
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The 'truth' is irrelevant in this case. The 'principle' remains the same. Why would a business associate themselves with this situation? Certainly does nothing to enhance their reputation or credibility.


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## lucianna97 (9 November 2013)

You would not be offered the opportunity as you do not know the horse or are in the situation she is


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## Amymay (9 November 2013)

lucianna97 said:



			You would not be offered the opportunity as you do not know the horse or are in the situation she is
		
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They wouldn't have to know........

All they would see would be someone arriving with the money.


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## CrazyCobLady (9 November 2013)

lucianna97 said:



			You would not be offered the opportunity as you do not know the horse or are in the situation she is
		
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How do you know? You have no idea who I am. I could be somebody you're real close too.
But seriously, what is to stop me asking for donations towards this horse?

They would just see me as somebody offering money and at the end of the day, that's all a dealer is after.


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## ponypolisher (9 November 2013)

webble said:



			I not long ago saw someone selling tickets to raffle a horse!!
		
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I heard about this too, a 'reputable' yard up here did it apparently! A project aswell. Ridiculous!


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## lucianna97 (9 November 2013)

That is not all a dealer is after, this dealer does not sell to people she feels is not right for the horse


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## CrazyCobLady (9 November 2013)

ponypolisher said:



			I heard about this too, a 'reputable' yard up here did it apparently! A project aswell. Ridiculous!
		
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I completely missed this. Disgraceful.


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## CrazyCobLady (9 November 2013)

lucianna97 said:



			That is not all a dealer is after, this dealer does not sell to people she feels is not right for the horse
		
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I could call up tonight, arrange to go see this horse and offer the money and maybe more than she's asking for and she would take it.


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## DragonSlayer (9 November 2013)

CrazyCobLady said:



			I completely missed this. Disgraceful.
		
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I agree! a raffle....!!


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## CrazyCobLady (9 November 2013)

DragonSlayer said:



			I agree! a raffle....!!
		
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What happened to the horse? Was it raffled off in the end?


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## lucianna97 (9 November 2013)

Possibly, possibly not


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## Amymay (9 November 2013)

lucianna97 said:



			That is not all a dealer is after, this dealer does not sell to people she feels is not right for the horse
		
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But _ will _ to someone who has to raise the money via a public fb campaign??


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## CrazyCobLady (9 November 2013)

amymay said:



			But _ will _ to someone who has to raise the money via a public fb campaign??
		
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Hit the nail on the head there, Amymay.


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## Amymay (9 November 2013)

lucianna97 said:



			Possibly, possibly not
		
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Lets hope not. That carries a custodial sentence.....


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## lucianna97 (9 November 2013)

Yes as she knows the person, knows that horse and rider go well together and connect well


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## DragonSlayer (9 November 2013)

CrazyCobLady said:



			What happened to the horse? Was it raffled off in the end?
		
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Haven't a clue! I was agreeing with you about it being disgraceful!

...would like to find out the result of that one...


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## CrazyCobLady (9 November 2013)

lucianna97 said:



			Yes as she knows the person, knows that horse and rider go well together and connect well
		
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Yet she knows that this girl cannot afford the horse but is considering selling to her if she RAISES enough money by PUBLIC DONATIONS? And she's a reputable dealer? Nah.


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## CrazyCobLady (9 November 2013)

DragonSlayer said:



			Haven't a clue! I was agreeing with you about it being disgraceful!

...would like to find out the result of that one...
		
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Definitely worth doing some digging around!


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## lucianna97 (9 November 2013)

She is a reputable dealer


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## CrazyCobLady (9 November 2013)

lucianna97 said:



			She is a reputable dealer
		
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Who cares about the welfare of her horses?


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## DragonSlayer (9 November 2013)

CrazyCobLady said:



			Definitely worth doing some digging around!
		
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Definitely! I had to pick myself up from the floor after reading that one.....


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## Ullybully (9 November 2013)

how do i upload pics please?


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## lucianna97 (9 November 2013)

Yes very much so


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## Amymay (9 November 2013)

DragonSlayer said:



			Haven't a clue! I was agreeing with you about it being disgraceful!

...would like to find out the result of that one...
		
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If it's the situation I'm thinking off - there was no pony and there was no raffle. And if it's the situation I'm thinking about and lucianna  is connected with the people who perpatrated  this little wind up then she should be given no credence whatsoever.


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## CrazyCobLady (9 November 2013)

DragonSlayer said:



			Definitely! I had to pick myself up from the floor after reading that one.....
		
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I must admit I was shocked when I read it. Who the hell gives a horse away through a bloody raffle?! Disgusting.


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## CrazyCobLady (9 November 2013)

lucianna97 said:



			Yes very much so
		
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Yet she is preparing to sell her horse to somebody who has to have money given by strangers to afford it?
All because they have a connection?


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## DragonSlayer (9 November 2013)

amymay said:



			If it's the situation I'm thinking off - there was no pony and there was no raffle. And if it's the situation I'm thinking about and lucianna  is connected with the people who perpatrated  this little wind up then she should be given no credence whatsoever.
		
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TSK!


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## Pidgeon (9 November 2013)

Upload photos to photobucket and link to there.


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## CrazyCobLady (9 November 2013)

Pidgeon said:



			Upload photos to photobucket and link to there.
		
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What are we trying to post?


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## Amymay (9 November 2013)

CrazyCobLady said:



			Ah, so while she's spending all her time with your horse, how is she looking after the two she has? And a potential number 3?! Wow. This girl's got stamina.
		
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Well, if they're all at the same yard it's no difficulty at all to be fair.


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## CrazyCobLady (9 November 2013)

amymay said:



			Well, if they're all at the same yard it's no difficulty at all to be fair.
		
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Deleted as I have a lot of respect for amymay and do not wish to get into an argument.


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## Amymay (9 November 2013)

CrazyCobLady said:



			Deleted as I have a lot of respect for amymay and do not wish to get into an argument.
		
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No, please - I was only making an observation.


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## CrazyCobLady (9 November 2013)

amymay said:



			No, please - I was only making an observation.
		
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No, No. My comment came across very rash and I didn't mean it in the way it sounded. Please, ignore me.


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## ponypolisher (9 November 2013)

CrazyCobLady said:



			I must admit I was shocked when I read it. Who the hell gives a horse away through a bloody raffle?! Disgusting.
		
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Strictly hearsay but from people closely involved, it was to be drawn at the big horse trials up here. Not sure it all went ahead in the end as appropriate authorities were notified thankfully. The whole thing was very dubious though. Anyway not really the point of the thread but just goes to show what some people think is alright when it comes to animals!


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## Amymay (9 November 2013)

CrazyCobLady said:



			No, No. My comment came across very rash and I didn't mean it in the way it sounded. Please, ignore me. 

Click to expand...


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## lucianna97 (9 November 2013)

Why are people commenting on her personal details on her horses and stuff, this is personal and should not be showed to everyone on the internet


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## lucianna97 (9 November 2013)

Its unfair that people should be acting like this towards paiz, all this information is no ones business and should not be posted


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## Amymay (9 November 2013)

D_Cheadle87 said:



			Well where else do you keep them in the back garden and there is such thing as grass livery and diy. And again jumping to assumptions i pay peppers livery.
		
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No, you're absoluetly right. And I've always kept my horses on DIY. However 2 through winter would be costing me around £300 a month. That's before bedding and hard feed, farrier insurance etc. So  I can easily be forking out around £500 a month. That's a lot even on my salary. 

I dont need to set up a fb account to raise money to purchase a horse. Someone who does can't afford one horse, let alone 4.......


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## MadBlackLab (9 November 2013)

lucianna97 said:



			Its unfair that people should be acting like this towards paiz, all this information is no ones business and should not be posted
		
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Unfortunately we live in a world of social media and people can find allsorts about other people on the internet so its not private when so easily available. if people don't want people to know anything about them they should be careful what they make available to the public eye


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## CrazyCobLady (9 November 2013)

amymay said:



			No, you're absoluetly right. And I've always kept my horses on DIY. However 2 through winter would be costing me around £300 a month. That's before bedding and hard feed, farrier insurance etc. So you I can easily be forking out around £500 a month. That's a lot even on my salary. 

I dont need to set up a fb account to raise money to purchase a horse. Someone who does can't afford one horse, let alone 4.......
		
Click to expand...

I really don't even need to be in this thread. Amymay has got it covered.


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## D_Cheadle87 (9 November 2013)

Youve got the story completly wrong with dite but i cant be bothered with all this anymore my mainconcern was accusations of neglect and peppers name i know one of you happily commenting with the initials CB checkyou inbox "other msgs" in a minute as i am a compuer div when it comes to putting pics on here and ill show how neglected she isnt


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## MadBlackLab (9 November 2013)

CrazyCobLady said:



			It's unfair that a horse may be falling into the wrong hands.
		
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^^^ Very true


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## CrazyCobLady (9 November 2013)

D_Cheadle87 said:



			Youve got the story completly wrong with dite but i cant be bothered with all this anymore my mainconcern was accusations of neglect and peppers name i know one of you happily commenting with the initials CB checkyou inbox "other msgs" in a minute as i am a compuer div when it comes to putting pics on here and ill show how neglected she isnt 

Click to expand...

Mmmhm.


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## sarahann1 (9 November 2013)

I couldn't care less who this person is, or what her history is. 

Quite frankly, you should work for what you want, asking for handouts when its not a genuine need is in my opinion cheeky and immoral.


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## CrazyCobLady (9 November 2013)

sarahann1 said:



			I couldn't care less who this person is, or what her history is. 

Quite frankly, you should work for what you want, asking for handouts when its not a genuine need is in my opinion cheeky and immoral.
		
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One of the best comments i've seen.


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## Echo Bravo (9 November 2013)

well I have £2000 to spare do you think they would except my offer by cheque or if I offered £1000 cash would they accept? Duchess I'm talking about, she looks nice. But I've only bought once from a dealer and I think I had a good deal, he's not what they said, but has given my hubby confidence and is very quiet, good to handle, shoe ect but is evil near mares and I have 2. But I would want a 5 star vetting and my vet thank the lord tells it straight as it comes.


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## MadBlackLab (9 November 2013)

sarahann1 said:



			I couldn't care less who this person is, or what her history is. 

Quite frankly, you should work for what you want, asking for handouts when its not a genuine need is in my opinion cheeky and immoral.
		
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^^^^^^^This is spot on


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## Echo Bravo (9 November 2013)

AS I've found out they don't except cheques only cash, I've always wondered why as I have money in the bank, do they cut and run with the cash


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## D_Cheadle87 (9 November 2013)

No need to be sarcastic with the initials i dont believe in putting peoples personal details online thats why i didnt use your full name... out of respect!
Pepper is 4 professionally backed at 3 and never jumped until she was 4.5 and doesnt jump regularly we've started introducing her to jumping now ready to gear up for next year. 
As for the car i dont know the full story but if the mot hadnt expired paiz wouldnt have took it to a garage until next mot was due so how would she know it was dangerous... i dont really want to get into a debate over the car issue as i dont know full facts and i havent seen pics as of the grey mentioned so cant comment onthat either.
I just think youve dragged this girl over the coals enough the facebook page is probably closed, paiz is very upset and cng are probably fed up too i think you may have just made your point now


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## MadBlackLab (9 November 2013)

Echo Bravo said:



			AS I've found out they don't except cheques only cash, I've always wondered why as I have money in the bank, do they cut and run with the cash

Click to expand...

What a surprise lol


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## CrazyCobLady (9 November 2013)

They should have come to an arrangement privately instead of involving the public and whinging when people post their opinions.


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## Arizahn (9 November 2013)

I don't believe any of this.


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## CrazyCobLady (9 November 2013)

Arizahn said:



			I don't believe any of this.
		
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How so?


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## Echo Bravo (9 November 2013)

^^^^ Believe it.


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## CrazyCobLady (9 November 2013)

Echo Bravo said:



			^^^^ Believe it.
		
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Yes ma'am!


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## Echo Bravo (9 November 2013)

D Cheadles87 who are you having a go at? Most of us


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## D_Cheadle87 (9 November 2013)

The 2/3 main commenters...role on the next bit of horsey gossip...something else to talk about .... as i said before the point has been made.


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## DragonSlayer (9 November 2013)

...had to scoot out to give night nets...back again!

The comment about being cheeky and immoral, THAT'S the conversation I want to be having.

Don't think I'd ever be cheeky enough to do that, got to give them credit I suppose for trying...BUT if they pull it off, and it seems to be working....until someone asks for their money back.

Couldn't imagine that scenario. If someone had donated a decent amount and changed their minds, not sure how that would pan out...


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## TheRealWorld (9 November 2013)

Echo Bravo said:



			D Cheadles87 who are you having a go at? Most of us
		
Click to expand...

I have never in my life witnessed such blatantly bitter and poisonous posts.  The hatred and jealousy that is oozing out of the majority of you is really quite disturbing.  It is YOUR horses I feel sorry for, having to be handled by such obviously cynical, negative and destructive people.  Trying to justify your posts by making out they are full of concern, when really you just are eaten up with the fact that something nice is happening to someone that isn't you.  Perhaps with your vile attitudes it is little wonder that such good karma hasn't befallen you as it has done the girl, who is being ripped to shreds in this grotesque witch hunt.  You should all be ashamed of yourselves.


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## Echo Bravo (9 November 2013)

So what they the 2/3 commenters have said has been true?


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## TheRealWorld (9 November 2013)

I have never in my life witnessed such blatantly bitter and poisonous posts. The hatred and jealousy that is oozing out of the majority of you is really quite disturbing. It is YOUR horses I feel sorry for, having to be handled by such obviously cynical, negative and destructive people. Trying to justify your posts by making out they are full of concern, when really you just are eaten up with the fact that something nice is happening to someone that isn't you. Perhaps with your vile attitudes it is little wonder that such good karma hasn't befallen you as it has done the girl who is being ripped to shreds in this grotesque witch hunt. You should all be ashamed of yourselves.


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## D_Cheadle87 (9 November 2013)

Agreed im glad someone has seen through this its awful


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## Echo Bravo (9 November 2013)

Realworld  PLEASE GROW UP!! You are the one coming over as the nasty one and for someone that often gets slated on here I take offense of what you have said about us.


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## TheRealWorld (9 November 2013)

You often get slated?  I'm not surprised.


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## FestiveFuzz (9 November 2013)

TheRealWorld said:



			I have never in my life witnessed such blatantly bitter and poisonous posts. The hatred and jealousy that is oozing out of the majority of you is really quite disturbing. It is YOUR horses I feel sorry for, having to be handled by such obviously cynical, negative and destructive people. Trying to justify your posts by making out they are full of concern, when really you just are eaten up with the fact that something nice is happening to someone that isn't you. Perhaps with your vile attitudes it is little wonder that such good karma hasn't befallen you as it has done the girl who is being ripped to shreds in this grotesque witch hunt. You should all be ashamed of yourselves.
		
Click to expand...

Are we reading the same thread here?


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## Echo Bravo (9 November 2013)

And as for Karma, what goes around comes around, take heed.


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## Echo Bravo (9 November 2013)

Slated yes but not in a nasty way. As you are doing.


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## TheRealWorld (9 November 2013)

Echo Bravo said:



			Realworld  PLEASE GROW UP!! You are the one coming over as the nasty one and for someone that often gets slated on here I take offense of what you have said about us.[/QUOTE

So it's OK for you to hound a young girl, but not for anyone to take issue with it.
		
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## TheRealWorld (9 November 2013)

Jealousy is such an ugly emotion.


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## TheRealWorld (9 November 2013)

Diddums you don't think it's moral... I don't think what you are doing on here is moral, so I guess that makes it even


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## Echo Bravo (9 November 2013)

Me I'm not hounding anyone, please take note of what I've said, I've just talk about stupid people.


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## MadBlackLab (9 November 2013)

TheRealWorld said:



			So it's OK for you to hound a young girl, but not for anyone to take issue with it.
		
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People not hounding the young girl people just think its unreal that this girl is asking for donations to buy a horse via facebook and are concerned of its welfare as if she cant afford to buy it (which is the cheapest bit) how she going to afford to look after it that's all


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## DragonSlayer (9 November 2013)

Kallibear said:



			I'm just confused?  Girl can't afford to buy thr horse so wants someone else to pay for it. That I understand even if it's damn cheeky. 

But the dealer isn't actually going to sell the horse, just loan it to her?  So where's the money going? I volunteer to take it, if it needs a deserving home......

Then there's apparently evidence that the girl doesn't look after her existing horses properly?  Is that true? 

And something about a car?!

Basically it boils down to someone wanting something they really don't NEED but would very much like, but can't afford,  so they're asking randon strangers to cough up. I think?
		
Click to expand...

That's about it.

I've been trying to discuss the moral implications of doing so, and said so a few times I believe....then suddenly new people pop up and start yelling all sorts of nasty things....


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## TheRealWorld (9 November 2013)

GG2B said:



			Are we reading the same thread here?
		
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Can you read... That's surprising


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## Echo Bravo (9 November 2013)

I love a good fight!!


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## TheRealWorld (9 November 2013)

Moral implications, don't make me laugh, age old jealousy plain and simple oozing out of your pores. Hideous


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## Arizahn (9 November 2013)

Echo Bravo said:



			^^^^ Believe it.
		
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No. 

<rebellious emoticon>


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## TheRealWorld (9 November 2013)

DragonSlayer said:



			That's about it.

I've been trying to discuss the moral implications of doing so, and said so a few times I believe....then suddenly new people pop up and start yelling all sorts of nasty things....
		
Click to expand...

Moral implications, don't make me laugh, age old jealousy plain and simple oozing out of your pores. Hideous


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## TheRealWorld (9 November 2013)

Echo Bravo said:



			Slated yes but not in a nasty way. As you are doing.
		
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How is it nasty to try and prevent a young girl from getting trashed on this forum.  Are you simple?


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## DragonSlayer (9 November 2013)

TheRealWorld said:



			Moral implications, don't make me laugh, age old jealousy plain and simple oozing out of your pores. Hideous
		
Click to expand...

I think my dear, you should go re-read my posts.


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## TheRealWorld (9 November 2013)

Echo Bravo said:



			Realworld  PLEASE GROW UP!! You are the one coming over as the nasty one and for someone that often gets slated on here I take offense of what you have said about us.
		
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REAL WORLD PLEASE GROW UP - I've said it in capitals so you have to take notice of me ... *rolls eyes*


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## Kaida (9 November 2013)

Okay, I'm relatively new to the H&H forums (though have been reading for a long time!) and when I came across this thread I agreed with the majority that a girl falling in love with a horse at work, when she already has one (confirmed that I can see, although potentially another on loan and an arrangement with a third? Possibly?), is rather cheeky!  I've read all the history on this on the relevant FB pages though, and it looks like it wasn't the girl OR the dealer asking people - it was a joke comment made that a lot of the people following the dealer jumped on and said they'd like to donate.  So I'm not sure this is in the moral category - obviously, she didn't turn around and say no, but it wasn't like she said "hey guys, I'd love this horse, I'm setting up an account please donate?"  Also - a few people have asked things about whether they would be able to buy the horse if they turned up with the money and it appears like the dealer has put a two week freeze on selling her to give the girl some time - but only since the supporters have asked if they can donate.

Just my two'penneth here - I can see both sides - I worked very very hard to have my horses and have a lot of pride in having done so, like most of you!  However, as the girl and dealer don't seem to have been actually asking for handouts I think this casts a slightly different moral aspect to it all...


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## FestiveFuzz (9 November 2013)

TheRealWorld said:



			Can you read... That's surprising
		
Click to expand...

Wow that was unnecessary, and we're the bitter, jealous ones?! This thread just gets better and better! I have to say I don't really understand why you feel any of us would be jealous though? I mean we all seem to be quite capable of paying for our horses without having to go beg strangers for money on Facebook


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## DragonSlayer (9 November 2013)

DragonSlayer said:



			I hope the situation resolves itself quickly, I don't like to think of the girl to whom this is all in aid of, she is going to come out of this badly, it's heading for a massive road crash, I'm afraid she's going to end up hurt and reputation in tatters...  I don't want that to happen.
		
Click to expand...

...for 'TheRealWorld'......

Take note of what I said.


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## Witchfinder General (9 November 2013)

TheRealWorld said:



			Can you read... That's surprising
		
Click to expand...

I get it!. No soap operas on the tele tonight so you come onto the forum to make one of your own.

I'm sure that there is Shakesperean play which would love you as a lead role.


Just saying.....Jog on


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## TheRealWorld (9 November 2013)

HandleyCross said:



			People not hounding the young girl people just think its unreal that this girl is asking for donations to buy a horse via facebook and are concerned of its welfare as if she cant afford to buy it (which is the cheapest bit) how she going to afford to look after it that's all
		
Click to expand...

She isn't asking you simpleton... Do you actually know what you are commenting on.... *nuts wall*


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## Echo Bravo (9 November 2013)

Is Therealworld talking about me, as not sure about Moral implications, age old, well yes I'm in my 60's, jealousy plain and simple not sure about as I have 5 horses own my own land, may look hideous, but I've never had Blotox and any other treatment, yes I look weatherbeaten but there again I'm out in all weathers everyday of the year.


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## TheRealWorld (9 November 2013)

Witchfinder General said:



			I get it!. No soap operas on the tele tonight so you come onto the forum to make one of your own.

I'm sure that there is Shakesperean play which would love you as a lead role.


Just saying.....Jog on
		
Click to expand...

Aww you want to be left with the rest of the coven to annihilate a young girl...


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## Witchfinder General (9 November 2013)

She isn't asking you simpleton
		
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go put your ovaltine on


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## sarahann1 (9 November 2013)

Jealous? 

No, I worked hard to pay for my lads, I pay for what needs paid for when the bills arise. I am damn proud of my achievements and the efforts I've made to get where I am today. In all that time I have never asked anyone for a penny. I got my first horse when I was 27, that's when I could finally afford one. So, am I jealous of a scrounger? That would be a big fat no.


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## MadBlackLab (9 November 2013)

TheRealWorld said:



			She isn't asking you simpleton... Do you actually know what you are commenting on.... *nuts wall*
		
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Now who being the bully. I'm not the cleverest person in the world but I certainly not a simpleton


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## Echo Bravo (9 November 2013)

Seems Therealworld has gone into orbit, such a shame.


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## DragonSlayer (9 November 2013)

HandleyCross said:



			Now who being the bully. I'm not the cleverest person in the world but I certainly not a simpleton
		
Click to expand...

Ignore the poster, the poster has gone away now.


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## Kallibear (9 November 2013)

Oh look,  Real World has gone all pale and faded.  Such a shame as her insults were just starting to get up to speed. 

Feeling a bit sorry for the girl. She sounds young and nieve. Has done (or been allowed to do) a silly thing (ask random strangers to help her buy something she doesn't need nor has the means to look after) and now it's exploded in her face.


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## DragonSlayer (9 November 2013)

....getting back to is it moral to ask for such things...

Found this site, seems a lot of people are at it!

http://cyberbeg.com/


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## MadBlackLab (9 November 2013)

Trust me I wont loose sleep over it but thanks Dragon Slayer


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## DragonSlayer (9 November 2013)

HandleyCross said:



			Trust me I wont loose sleep over it but thanks Dragon Slayer
		
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Glad to hear it!


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## FestiveFuzz (9 November 2013)

Aww and it was just getting good!

Morally speaking I think the dealer shouldn't have facilitated the donations. If followers wanted to donate it should have been between them and the groom. On a personal level I would never donate to something so frivolous and unnecessary when there are causes desperate for funding.


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## Echo Bravo (9 November 2013)

good lord Dragonslayer just had a quick look at the cyber, takes my faith in humans down several notches, just a fewer than I thought


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## FinnishLapphund (10 November 2013)

CrazyCobLady said:



			I must admit I was shocked when I read it. Who the hell gives a horse away through a bloody raffle?! Disgusting.
		
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Gothenburg Horse Show does, every year the first prize in the raffle is a Swedish Warmblood. But the horses selected to be rafflehorses is of good quality, usually about 4 to 5 years old, and worth quite a bit of money. The winner can chose between taking the horse or let them sell it for you, and you will get the money. Last article I read about it, nobody unsuitable have yet won and decided to take the horse instead of the money. 

As an example, this is 2011's rafflehorse Fay:

[youtube]XoJpXAfzt3c[/youtube]


And to give an example of the value of the rafflehorses, according to what I've read, 2013's rafflehorse was sold for something over £11000.


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## 2Greys (10 November 2013)

I find it odd that people would be willing to donate to buying a horse for someone on the basis they feel bonded to it, but its people's choice what they do with their money. I personally wouldn't be comfortable with obtaining money that way, it's not even really a crisis which may push you to desperate measures. If dealer is as good as said by other employee then will sell horse to a suitable person.

I don't think it looks good on the dealer to be involved in situation where they appear to profit, better to come to a personal arrangement with their employee. I wonder if it would be awkward if she opted to sell the horse on later.


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## Tnavas (10 November 2013)

A friend of mine has a birthday in a few weeks and the mare that she has been leasing goes home in a few weeks. She saw a lovely youngster and asked her friends to put money towards the horse rather than buy her a present.

I've given her $20 as have many others of her friends. Think it's a very clever way of buying the horse. Means I don't have to stress as to what I can get her for  her birthday.


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## The wife (10 November 2013)

2Greys said:



			I find it odd that people would be willing to donate to buying a horse for someone on the basis they feel bonded to it, but its people's choice what they do with their money. I personally wouldn't be comfortable with obtaining money that way, it's not even really a crisis which may push you to desperate measures. If dealer is as good as said by other employee then will sell horse to a suitable person.

I don't think it looks good on the dealer to be involved in situation where they appear to profit, better to come to a personal arrangement with their employee. I wonder if it would be awkward if she opted to sell the horse on later.
		
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This! I hadn't even thought of what happened if she wanted to sell it.  Pleased we're back on track with the initial foundations of the post  although some were highly amusing insults indeed.  Personal favourite being bitter and cynical bunch... Erm no. Just able to see past BS .


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## hannah12 (10 November 2013)

Have any of you actually followed the story? They did not ask for money the girl said it as an idea and the supporters then took it on themselves and said let's give it a try. She does not have her own horses! I support cng and what they tried to do for this girl was truely amazing! For grown people to have threatened the girl disgusts me! Cng's reputation will not be hurt as they have true supporters and beautiful horses! When the time comes for me to buy, that is where I will be going as I know they do an amazing job. For you all to criticise what they're doing, take a moment to think that if you were the one they were doing this for I doubt you would be saying the same things. I know what it feels like to loose the horse that you have an unbreakable bond with and if you haven't followed the story from day one then you shouldn't judge with this hurtful comments! CNG I SUPPORT YOU ALL THE WAY!


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## Carrots&Mints (10 November 2013)

I hope you have all read the status on fb now. The police have been involved and I hope to god its got nothing to do with you lot on here! But after reading some disgusting and vile comments nothing would surprise me.


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## rainycali (10 November 2013)

For the hateful bunch of vile bitches on here - i seriously hope you get back what you all deserve!

Cng Equine
1 hour ago · 
Paiz and Duchess !!
This started out to be just a gesture to help them stay together and has now turned into an absolute nightmare for ourselves and Paiz.
I have to stop it here, Paiz has had people turn up to her horse last night and this has made her ill. Ourselves have received a real " bashing " and have been slated everywhere, people obviously don't know the full story.
There are specific posts from a school girl whom has made serious ( totally none founded ) allegations personally about us and our family.
Paiz has been threatened and we have tried to " rise " above it but we are human and cannot put ourselves in danger.
I don't want to let anyone down who have supported us however I cannot carry on.
For all that have donated I am happy to returned your donation if you can drop me a message, those who don't I will be donating it to charity, and will document this well.
I would also like suggestions of charities too.
Thank you so much to those who have supported us, you have helped get us this far.
Thank you
Claire


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## FinnishLapphund (10 November 2013)

DragonSlayer said:



			....getting back to is it moral to ask for such things...

Found this site, seems a lot of people are at it!

http://cyberbeg.com/



Click to expand...

There is someone on that list who wants money to pay off his bills, future wedding and travel expenses. I think it is nice that people wants to get married, but I've never understood why some people have weddings that costs more than they can afford. 

And why am I not surprised to find someone with a private animal rescue on the list? Someone who has set up a horse rescue, but says that more people are dumping their horses, the costs have gone up, and she needs more money than what she gets from working a full time job. I understand that it must be heartbreaking, and I understand that it can't be easy if someone leaves a horse at your gate, but still, if you can not afford to feed and take care of more horses than the ones you've already got, then do whatever you can to not take in any more horses. 

If a person takes on more horses than they can afford to buy/keep whatever, then regardless if they do it because they think that they're rescuing a horse or if they do it because they think that they've bonded with a horse, in my opinion, that usually doesn't ends well for the horses involved.


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## Amymay (10 November 2013)

FinnishLapphund said:



			Gothenburg Horse Show does, every year the first prize in the raffle is a Swedish Warmblood. 

And to give an example of the value of the rafflehorses, according to what I've read, 2013's rafflehorse was sold for something over £11000.
		
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Regardless of the rights or wrongs though - it's illegal to do this in the uk.


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## In The Real World (10 November 2013)

Carrots&Mints said:



			I hope you have all read the status on fb now. The police have been involved and I hope to god its got nothing to do with you lot on here! But after reading some disgusting and vile comments nothing would surprise me.
		
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Yes the world is full of cynical internet trolls who just love nothing more then to flex there muscles online and be-little & bully others. I personally have been a victim of hateful bitches on facebook and I am glad to hear that CNG have got the Police involved after serious threats have been made towards the safety of this young lady & others. Is bloody disgusting !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Amymay (10 November 2013)

hannah12 said:



			Have any of you actually followed the story? They did not ask for money the girl said it as an idea and the supporters then took it on themselves and said let's give it a try. She does not have her own horses! I support cng and what they tried to do for this girl was truely amazing! For grown people to have threatened the girl disgusts me! Cng's reputation will not be hurt as they have true supporters and beautiful horses! When the time comes for me to buy, that is where I will be going as I know they do an amazing job. For you all to criticise what they're doing, take a moment to think that if you were the one they were doing this for I doubt you would be saying the same things. I know what it feels like to loose the horse that you have an unbreakable bond with and if you haven't followed the story from day one then you shouldn't judge with this hurtful comments! CNG I SUPPORT YOU ALL THE WAY!
		
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What an odd post. CNG are dealers, and whilst its great that you rate them enough to 'support' them I don't get the adultorational nature of that support. They buy and sell horses.

I think their involvement in this will hurt their reputation actually.As iit's not something a professional organisation would touch with a barge pole.


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## equitum (10 November 2013)

Having read all the comments on here, I really don't understand why people are getting so angry about it all. It's not your money or your concern and if people have gone to the trouble of turning up and threatening this girl, then that is very, very sad.  

Although I do agree that the girl needs to make sure she has provisions in place to ensure she can pay for the upkeep of her horse, people are donating their own money knowingly so why all the fuss? They haven't been tricked into it. 

I am sure it was a well meaning gesture to begin with which has been very tainted, a real shame.


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## mandwhy (10 November 2013)

I don't know if I've missed something but I don't see the massive deal about this, and why on earth people are making threats over it?!

Sure it is unusual, and I did immediately think the dealer should drop the price to the minimum possible, but it is up to individuals what they give money to.

The girl has a job, she works on a yard, I keep two horses on A LOT less than this. Horses are not only for the rich, I thought we had established this.

The dealer is still a business, they are not going to give her the horse I understand that, and they did drop the price from 2500 to 1800 I believe. Seems more reasonable I guess.

The dealer obviously feels from knowing the girl that she is capable of caring for a horse. I saw something about a loan gone wrong, I wonder when this was and considering this is a young girl, would it be possible that she'll be different now anyway? 

I do realise the dealer deletes all bad stuff and I do think that is a bit silly, and also obvious as they talk of all the negative and even threatening comments and I see nothing but support - that's their prerogative though.


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## Amymay (10 November 2013)

Carrots&Mints said:



			I hope you have all read the status on fb now. The police have been involved and I hope to god its got nothing to do with you lot on here! But after reading some disgusting and vile comments nothing would surprise me.
		
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Ah the joys of fb. I love it when the old 'police involved' card is played.

There is a very good post made by someone called claire that cng have posted.

Sums up the situation perfectly.


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## ester (10 November 2013)

hannah12 said:



			Have any of you actually followed the story? They did not ask for money the girl said it as an idea and the supporters then took it on themselves and said let's give it a try.
		
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If she said it as an idea how is that not asking for money?

When the supporters took it on themselves she should have said thank you for trying to help but I don't think this is the right way of going about this. I shall see if I can come to a payment arrangement with my boss.


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## rainycali (10 November 2013)

I've bought two horses off Cng one by cheque and one by bank transfer so they don't only deal in cash at all.


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## AdorableAlice (10 November 2013)

The correct way to deal with this situation is to advise The Office of Fair Trading and The Charities Commission.  On a local level the dealers actions should also be passed to Trading Standards.

The collection of money from the public is regulated by various Acts, ie, The Street Collection Act, The Gambling Act and The Pedlars Act.  The latter is governed by the Police.


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## Amymay (10 November 2013)

AdorableAlice said:



			The latter is governed by the Police.
		
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Which is possibly why the police are allegedly involved....


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## D_Cheadle87 (10 November 2013)

The police are involved and the fact people turned up at her mums house last night while she was out and upset and frightened her mum is awful i thought you were all caring and worried about the horses etc... no you just bullies and should be ashamed of your selves!


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## AdorableAlice (10 November 2013)

amymay said:



			Which is possibly why the police are allegedly involved....
		
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I wouldn't hold your breath, The Pedlars Act is an ancient piece of legislation and the police are very reluctant to enforce it.  With the ever increasing shared services regime many local authorities are adding the Act to their workload.


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## hairycob (10 November 2013)

Do you have proof that it was people from this forum that went to the house? If not I suggest you moderate your own posts for fear of libel.
Haven't seen the facebook stuff so no idea how it started but perhaps the messages to take from this are:
1) Don't even joke about asking for donations to buy something for yourself in case someone takes it seriously & it all gets out of hand.
2) If someone offers to start a collection like this just state very clearly that it's awfully kind, but really you don't want it to happen - I realise it may be necessary to do it several times as on facebook things do have a tendency to get out of hand.
3) If you don't want to be talked about on public forums like this don't ask/let anyone else ask for money to buy a horse because that is just asking for trouble.
I understand the girl involved is young and her judgement in these matters is not fully formed but the dealer is presumably an experienced adult & should have stamped on the whole business immediately.


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## WelshD (10 November 2013)

I love that people have to message to get their money back, i would imagine that most were made by paypal which is easily reversed with a couple of clicks of a mouse!


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## D_Cheadle87 (10 November 2013)

I know who it was that went im not saying you personallywent what im saying is a forum like this is fuelling the fire and i know that if it was me in this situation id be terrified maybe she shouldnt have let the donation thing go as far as it did but shes only young and probably didnt expect it to pan out like this. I think enough is enough yes shes upset people but now that people are turning up at family homes i think you may agree this is getting out of hand?


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## hairycob (10 November 2013)

Like I said the dealer is presumably an experienced adult who should have shut the whole business down straight away. Hopefully the girl has learnt an important lesson in life & won't make the same mistake again.


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## The wife (10 November 2013)

D_Cheadle87 said:



			The police are involved and the fact people turned up at her mums house last night while she was out and upset and frightened her mum is awful i thought you were all caring and worried about the horses etc... no you just bullies and should be ashamed of your selves!
		
Click to expand...

Ashamed for what? Having an opinion on something that is morally incorrect?  I'm not being funny but for people to turn up at her mums house means that they are probably people that physically know her, how else would they know the address (that is of course if this actually happened and not just a story).

This thread started out as quite a thought provoking one with some good points brought up, it was only when somebody disagreed with the majority that the insults started and were very much one sided.  So perhaps one needs to look elsewhere at who should be ashamed of themselves, it certainly isn't the majority on here.  Nobody has made any threats of any kind on here towards Paiz or the dealers. 

It it was a silly idea that has gotten out of hand and should have been squashed days ago or should not have been made so public.


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## FinnishLapphund (10 November 2013)

Carrots&Mints said:



			I hope you have all read the status on fb now. The police have been involved and I hope to god its got nothing to do with you lot on here! But after reading some disgusting and vile comments nothing would surprise me.
		
Click to expand...




rainycali said:



			For the hateful bunch of vile bitches on here - i seriously hope you get back what you all deserve!

Cng Equine
1 hour ago · 
Paiz and Duchess !!
This started out to be just a gesture to help them stay together and has now turned into an absolute nightmare for ourselves and Paiz.
I have to stop it here, Paiz has had people turn up to her horse last night and this has made her ill. Ourselves have received a real " bashing " and have been slated everywhere, people obviously don't know the full story.
There are specific posts from a school girl whom has made serious ( totally none founded ) allegations personally about us and our family.
Paiz has been threatened and we have tried to " rise " above it but we are human and cannot put ourselves in danger.
I don't want to let anyone down who have supported us however I cannot carry on.
For all that have donated I am happy to returned your donation if you can drop me a message, those who don't I will be donating it to charity, and will document this well.
I would also like suggestions of charities too.
Thank you so much to those who have supported us, you have helped get us this far.
Thank you
Claire
		
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I'm quite sure that not every person interested in horses that also have a Facebook account, is a member on HHO, so I would not presume that whoever(/which ever persons) it is that the two of you think have stepped over the line, has to be a HHO:er.  

Also, the worst comments that I've read on this thread, was written by two new members (Join Date: Nov 2013) called Ullybully/UllyBully (spelling ?), but all their replies seems to have been removed from the thread, and TheRealWorld, who seems to have been banned, but the replies have not been removed, besides, they already seem to have broken the rules about banning, and are back under the new user name In The Real World. Anyhow, I fail to see how that makes HHO a place full of hateful vile bitches.  

As for the police becoming involved, that could mean anything. E.g. only because someone have reported something to the police, it doesn't mean that someone has to have done something that the police will actually be interested in.


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## Love (10 November 2013)

I too am another who's not buying the "going round to the house story". If it did happen then I am very sorry for the girl as it must have been horrible. 

But if the blame is trying to be pinned on a HHO user then I am sorry but that's laughable. How was the address found out for a start?! I know nowadays it's a lot easier than it was but I seriously doubt someone from this forum has gone round to the girls house.


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## WelshD (10 November 2013)

Oh no 

Weez all haters  

I will be interested to see if this makes the HHO mag top 5 most talked about threads this week


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## Love (10 November 2013)

WelshD said:



			I will be interested to see if this makes the HHO mag top 5 most talked about threads this week 

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Did have to chuckle at this! Somehow, I think not....


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## The wife (10 November 2013)

natalie44 said:



			AT LAST SOMEONE WITH ACUTUAL FACTS!!!!!!!!!! its dsigusting and shameful on the whole of the horse community that 2 people can take a personal vendetta against a YOUNG girl and make it into this, the rest i suspect is hearsay from the sad bitches who clearly have nothing better to do with their time. Get a life and go bully someone else.
		
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Nobody on this thread has bullied anybody, again as I said before it was an Opinion, please read my last post about insults.  Please refrain from posting insults yourself unless you have something constructive to add to the debate.

A fair few new members posting on this........


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## The wife (10 November 2013)

Love said:



			Did have to chuckle at this! Somehow, I think not....
		
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It will unfortunately be brought down before then.  If it does it will be the second one in a year for me


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## diamonddogs (10 November 2013)

First off, I accept this girl didn't actually ask for the fund herself, and I think that Claire is guilty of a gross error of judgement over what probably started out as a fantasy, and it could potentially cause untold damage to her business, which she probably now realises.

I think it's a bit unfair in principle to assume if you can't afford to buy a horse you can't afford to keep it - when my mare died a couple of years ago there was a doubt as to whether the insurance would pay up for her death as I didn't want a post mortem, and without the settlement I would have had to give up horse ownership even though I'd had no problem with day to day upkeep, but it all worked out for me.


What I do take issue with is a bunch of "supporters" who have joined simply to have a go at people who are rightly concerned about the welfare of this horse, and the dealer's reputation. There have been accusations thrown about accusing people of jealousy and bitterness, and this is really making me angry - we all work hard for our horses, and most of us a justifiably proud to say we did it all on our own. I'm a great believer in the concept of appreciating things that you've worked for more than if things are handed to you on a plate, something which appears to be sadly lacking in the youth of today, with their "I want it and I want it NOW" attitude.

I'm not saying that this girl wouldn't be upset if the horse were sold out from under her nose (how many of us cried for a week when our favourite riding school pony got sold?), but if she can't handle that she's in the wrong job. If you get so attached to a horse your whole life would be ruined if it were sold, why work for a dealer?


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## Amymay (10 November 2013)

D_Cheadle87 said:



			The police are involved and the fact people turned up at her mums house last night while she was out and upset and frightened her mum is awful i thought you were all caring and worried about the horses etc... no you just bullies and should be ashamed of your selves!
		
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You're right. That is absolutely appalling.


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## russianhorse (10 November 2013)

Wow - this has been some thread

Well, to put my tuppence worth in, as its been quite thought provoking.... here goes:

Morally this was a crazy situation which really should have been stopped from growing legs and running with the idea that people should chip in to buy this girl a horse - especially as it seems she has a couple already. Whilst I understand that you can gain a huge bond straight away with a horse (I have, and am saving to buy him......although he's also currently on full loan to me at the min), if you can afford it, you can't have it ...... Or you make necessary amendments to your life in order to get said horse

However, I can understand the girl getting carried away with the idea if people are willing to throw money in the pot in order to buy horse for her - I can't imagine alot of people not getting carried away initially - I would, but then would reassess situation and more than likely decline (but then I'm like a moral compass :/ lol ). However it should really have been stopped by  the dealer, as presumably business minded people. Unfortunately this situation can only damage their reputation and should never ever have been seen to be involved in agreeing with taking people donations. If they felt that strongly about their employees bond with said horse, they should have full loaned it and made some sort of agreement for said pony to be paid off, at the most. At the same time, in life we can't always get what we want and that's a hard lesson that this girl needs to learn also

With regards to the "haters" - the only evidence I've seen of this has been the newbies spouting nonsense and clearly trying to rile up the situation.  IF its true that people have turned up to the girls house and horse, then the chances are it is people that know her, know where she lives etc etc and cannot be apportioned to HHO users who, whilst may have strong opinions on here, wouldn't jump in their cars, on horseback or any other means to head across from their lives to have a face to face showdown over something which has been thought provoking  

Morally it was wrong to accept donations, but at the end of the day if people are that readily available to part with their money for what is essentially just a luxury, then so be it......


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## noodle_ (10 November 2013)

wow what a thread!!


i dont buy the story about going round to her house....however if true - why!?


the dealer has dug herself a very large hole, and it will affect the reputation....diamonddogs put it well!!!

raffling off horses, asking for donations and money always ends in tears!


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## CrazyCobLady (10 November 2013)

noodle_ said:



			wow what a thread!!


i dont buy the story about going round to her house....however if true - why!?


the dealer has dug herself a very large hole, and it will affect the reputation....diamonddogs put it well!!!

raffling off horses, asking for donations and money always ends in tears!
		
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Wish there was a 'like' button for this.


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## Arizahn (10 November 2013)

Sell story to tabloids, use money to buy horse, simples...

Personally, I still don't believe any of it. But I am skeptical of everything on the internet, especially Facebook, tbh. Awful lot of people on there with fake accounts they use for trolling.


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## southerncomfort (10 November 2013)

Crikey!  You know it's been a lively night when your entire 'internet time' is taken up with reading one thread!


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## FinnishLapphund (10 November 2013)

The wife said:



			It will unfortunately be brought down before then.  If it does it will be the second one in a year for me 

Click to expand...







 Remember that you can only control what you write, as far as I know, you can't control what others will write on a thread on an open forum. Personally, I don't think that there is anything in your post/replies that could be interpreted as cyber bullying, nor intended to make others become cyber bullies, or whatever else it is, which might or might not have happened. 

How would you have known, that a bunch of newbies would show up and post on this thread? Surely, you're not responsible for if other members post replies, for example, saying that all HHO:ers are bullies that should be ashamed of ourselves. Which could annoy/offend those members, who feels that there is nothing in their replies that warrants such a comment...  

If Admin decides to remove the whole thread, I hope that you don't feel too bad about it.


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## Love (10 November 2013)

FinnishLapphund said:








 Remember that you can only control what you write, as far as I know, you can't control what others will write on a thread on an open forum. Personally, I don't think that there is anything in your post/replies that could be interpreted as cyber bullying, nor intended to make others become cyber bullies, or whatever else it is, which might or might not have happened. 

How would you have known, that a bunch of newbies would show up and post on this thread? Surely, you're not responsible for if other members post replies, for example, saying that all HHO:ers are bullies that should be ashamed of ourselves. Which could annoy/offend those members, who feels that there is nothing in their replies that warrants such a comment...  

If Admin decides to remove the whole thread, I hope that you don't feel too bad about it.
		
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This


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## The wife (10 November 2013)

Thank you.


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## Adopter (10 November 2013)

OP you started a thread and people contributed their views, we do it all the time.  Somehow it attracted new posters who seem to think the only way to get their views across is to accuse others of bad behaviour.  

I do not agree with threats being made or people turning up at a house, but I can not see how posters on this forum could be responsible for such actions.

FB groups can be good, but this has been an example of what can go wrong when you go public.


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## Crugeran Celt (10 November 2013)

sarahann1 said:



			I couldn't care less who this person is, or what her history is. 

Quite frankly, you should work for what you want, asking for handouts when its not a genuine need is in my opinion cheeky and immoral.
		
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This is exactly.


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## Tlc220 (10 November 2013)

Obviously I am a new poster which I know for some of you will reduce the validity of this post but here goes.

I actually feel sorry for the dealer in all of this. She was trying to do something nice (whilst still earning a living) for one of her (relatively new) employees. 

A lot of people obviously support the dealer as they are donating generously. However, they do not have the full picture as the dealer has blocked anyone who posted negative comments, including the unhappy owners of previous horses loaned by the girl.

I have known the girl at the centre of this for a number of years and seen a number of loan horses come and go for a variety of reasons. 

I am aware that at least 2 of the horses were returned in a far from ideal state and therefore there are some people who are rightfully very upset at the thought that this girl would be getting a free horse when she has not shown to be the model owner previously.

It is wrong that people have been to her house, and terrible that she has recieved death threats. I think a simple message to the dealer outlining why this girl may not be such a deserving recipient of others generosity may have been more appropriate.

It's a nice story and people obviously identify with not being able to have your 'dream horse', but there have been many 'dream' horses for this girl who have simply not been looked after well enough.


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## mixedspice (10 November 2013)

I have joined this forum today, as i have been following the story on facebook and yes from the beginning. I have been following cng page for a while now after a friend asked me to be- friend them to look at a horse they were selling at the time and if i thought it would be appropriate for her.

Since i liked their page i had to have my own horse put to sleep last year, and haven't been able to afford another one. Yes i work 30hrs over 2days and i am a full time mum to  4yr old and a 5 old.

I saw this horse duchess on there page(before all this broke out) and liked her, so i private messaged the dealer to see if i could view her and gave my mobile no.  The dealer messaged me straight back what would i like to do with her to see if she is suitable, i said funrides hopefully get back to doing a little hunting and something i could lead my daughters pony off, again she replied straight back that don't think she's suitable for leading off, so i replied leading not essential but would have been nice could i still view her. I still have heard nothing a part from what's been on facebook and here.  And this is the first time i commented any where not sure its relevant but just wanted to comment.


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## CrazyCobLady (10 November 2013)

mixedspice said:



			I have joined this forum today, as i have been following the story on facebook and yes from the beginning. I have been following cng page for a while now after a friend asked me to be- friend them to look at a horse they were selling at the time and if i thought it would be appropriate for her.

Since i liked their page i had to have my own horse put to sleep last year, and haven't been able to afford another one. Yes i work 30hrs over 2days and i am a full time mum to  4yr old and a 5 old.

I saw this horse duchess on there page(before all this broke out) and liked her, so i private messaged the dealer to see if i could view her and gave my mobile no.  The dealer messaged me straight back what would i like to do with her to see if she is suitable, i said funrides hopefully get back to doing a little hunting and something i could lead my daughters pony off, again she replied straight back that don't think she's suitable for leading off, so i replied leading not essential but would have been nice could i still view her. I still have heard nothing a part from what's been on facebook and here.  And this is the first time i commented any where not sure its relevant but just wanted to comment.
		
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Thanks for sharing.


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## DragonSlayer (10 November 2013)

Gobsmacked actually....that a discussion about 'is it moral' and more importantly...is it legal....could be  twisted in such a way.

....so once again, users on HHO are being accused of all sorts of things, when the only ones I see/saw throwing insults and threats are some (not all) new posters who logged on purely for this thread, and some haven't even bothered to read all posts it seems, when my concern was for the poor girl to whom this was in aid of!

Yep, it's blown up in her face, just like I said it would. 

I feel sorry for her, really don't think the dealer did her any favours (oh wait, in a few minutes I'll be called a bully, and will have been round her house throwing threats around no doubt....)

I still stand by what I say. Yes, people can do what they want with their money, but who will clean up the mess if it all went wrong? What would happen to that money if the horse was sold....? A legal minefield that the girl wouldn't want to be in the middle of.

..seems us 'haters' are just bitter and twisted middle-aged women who are jealous.

Not sure why the 'people' who 'went round to her house and made threats' have to had come from here? I only heard about this yesterday and it was mentioned to me by someone else who isn't a member here, that it had been going on for ages....there are other forums as well as this one!

~sigh~

I'm just glad that admin saw fit to identify the actual poster/s who were throwing the insults towards us.

I hope the dealer does the right thing by the girl and horse in question, and allows her to purchase the horse the way is SHOULD be done...

Peace all.


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## Adopter (10 November 2013)

mixedspice said:



			I have joined this forum today, as i have been following the story on facebook and yes from the beginning. I have been following cng page for a while now after a friend asked me to be- friend them to look at a horse they were selling at the time and if i thought it would be appropriate for her.

Since i liked their page i had to have my own horse put to sleep last year, and haven't been able to afford another one. Yes i work 30hrs over 2days and i am a full time mum to  4yr old and a 5 old.

I saw this horse duchess on there page(before all this broke out) and liked her, so i private messaged the dealer to see if i could view her and gave my mobile no.  The dealer messaged me straight back what would i like to do with her to see if she is suitable, i said funrides hopefully get back to doing a little hunting and something i could lead my daughters pony off, again she replied straight back that don't think she's suitable for leading off, so i replied leading not essential but would have been nice could i still view her. I still have heard nothing a part from what's been on facebook and here.  And this is the first time i commented any where not sure its relevant but just wanted to comment.
		
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Thank you for sharing.  Although you were not sucessful this time, the right horse will come along, I hope you find this forum helpful , I have found it to be full of good advice and help as I took on looking after two ponies again after a break.

I hope you find the right horse and have some good times, do let us know how you get on.


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## DragonSlayer (10 November 2013)

Tlc220 said:



			Obviously I am a new poster which I know for some of you will reduce the validity of this post but here goes.

I actually feel sorry for the dealer in all of this. She was trying to do something nice (whilst still earning a living) for one of her (relatively new) employees. 

A lot of people obviously support the dealer as they are donating generously. However, they do not have the full picture as the dealer has blocked anyone who posted negative comments, including the unhappy owners of previous horses loaned by the girl.

I have known the girl at the centre of this for a number of years and seen a number of loan horses come and go for a variety of reasons. 

I am aware that at least 2 of the horses were returned in a far from ideal state and therefore there are some people who are rightfully very upset at the thought that this girl would be getting a free horse when she has not shown to be the model owner previously.

It is wrong that people have been to her house, and terrible that she has recieved death threats. I think a simple message to the dealer outlining why this girl may not be such a deserving recipient of others generosity may have been more appropriate.

It's a nice story and people obviously identify with not being able to have your 'dream horse', but there have been many 'dream' horses for this girl who have simply not been looked after well enough.
		
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Welcome!

You haven't threatened us, or called us witches or similar, so I'll take time to read your post!

Your last paragraph, first part of sentence, strikes a chord, how true. I was in my 20's before I got my first horse, and she was on loan. It was a while after that too, before I could afford to get my own....

A sensible first post, thank you.


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## babymare (10 November 2013)

Wow i go away for 2 days and miss the fun of a bun fight  sounds like its been a tad heated in here!!!! How did it get to this eeekkk


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## Pidgeon (10 November 2013)

Reminds me somewhat of the Clywd Davies saga. If you read everything the only ones being nasty are the newcomers/oldies who are sticking up for the dealer and the girl the HHO gang are quite rightly expressing their opinion on this matter. They can not post on the cng equine facebook page as negative comments are deleted as is the case in so many businesses so that people only see good about the person or business. It is in my opinion very flawed as is in part to blame for the blinkered views of the followers. IMO and yes I am allowed one last time I looked, is that the dealer was woefully remiss in what she has actively encouraged, albeit she didn't say to set a fund up but the inference was there. Unfortunately she did not anticipate this backlash as to be honest the people stating its the girls dream come true need to wake up and smell the roses, she already has horses whether her own or loaned so how come its a dream to own this particular horse? Dealer is selling it to her for the advertised price hence would have been making a nice profit on the deal. What she should have done was offer the horse to the girl and deduct out of her wages if she was that concerned about the horse. 
This whole business leaves a very sour taste and I am appalled at the bigoted and nasty comments the followers are posting on here and on facebook. Whatever happened to having a good old fashioned discussion without all the hatred coming out so quickly, ho hum can't educate the blinded I suppose.


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## SatansLittleHelper (10 November 2013)

This ^^^ 100%


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## The wife (10 November 2013)

Tlc220 said:



			Obviously I am a new poster which I know for some of you will reduce the validity of this post but here goes.

.
		
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On the contrary  hi and welcome to both new members!  The way I see it, a poster has as much validity as another whether they are a new one or an older member, so long as they bring something sensible with valid points to a thread.  The angst about new posters was aimed at those that had simply signed up to HHO to throw mud and insults without being provoked to other members just stating their opinions and hence things had gotten a little heated.  We all started off as new posters once


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## Anglebracket (10 November 2013)

People have been very cruel towards the groom on this forum. She has been called a scrounger, immoral, possibly not fit to do her job because she grew attached to a horse for sale, and she has been accused of being neglectful of animals in her care. 

It has been implied that the dealer is dodgy (in one of the first posts on page 1), immoral, money grabbing and unprofessional.

The people who have given money to the groom were called stupid and gullible.

It is therefore not unsurprising that new posters joined just to defend the groom. Some of them did swear and responded emotionally to the whole thing. This is unfortunate but also understandable to a degree.

There has been a lot of hearsay, gossip and contradictory information on this thread. I find it impossible to judge what is true based on this information. The negative comments may have been generated by someone who has a grudge against the dealer, or someone who simply dislikes the groom. Similarly, we can't verify the positive statements either. In these situations it is best to withold judgement and keep an open mind.

I don't believe that it was someone from hho who made death threats or turned up at the grooms door (if these incidents indeed happened).However, what has been said on here has had an impact on someones life. The groom is now unlikely to get the horse and is probably feeling pretty upset. 

Most forum users can hide behind anonymous user names. The groom and the dealer, on the other hand, are easily identifiable. An anonymous users can say pretty much whatever they want without it having a repercussion on their real lives. The same does not apply to the groom or dealer. This is probably why dealer discussions are against the forum T&Cs. 

It's a shame the thread did not stick to being a general discussion about asking for money to buy a horse.


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## Kallibear (10 November 2013)

Anglebracket said:



			People have been very cruel towards the groom on this forum. She has been called a scrounger, immoral, possibly not fit to do her job because she grew attached to a horse for sale, and she has been accused of being neglectful of animals in her care.
		
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I don't see anyone being directly cruel to the groom. In many people's opionion, inc mine,  begging for money to buy a horse IS scrounging and immoral. That is our opnion, which we are entitled to ans something that is of course going to be aired when it's public begging. Fit to do her job is unfair but no one actually said that. Many HAVE said that falling in love with a transient horse is a job risk and something the girl needs to learn to deal with. As for neglecting her current horses: is that true? Many have questioned it since someone ( who appears to be in the know) had mentioned it.




			has been implied that the dealer is dodgy (in one of the first posts on page 1), immoral, money grabbing and unprofessional.
		
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Again, that is peoples opinion. A dealer who encouranges a groom to beg for money to buy one of their horses IS unprofessional and quite possibly immoral. Money grabbing is debatable.  As for being a 'dodgy dealer', that's a different kettle of fish entirely and something some who have first hand experience of the dealer have mentioned.  




			The people who have given money to the groom were called stupid and gullible..
		
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Giving money to a stranger to buy a horse they don't even know if she can afford to look after IS stupid. Are THEY stupid in general? Who knows.


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## MadBlackLab (10 November 2013)

Kallibear said:



			I don't see anyone being directly cruel to the groom. In many people's opionion, inc mine,  begging for money to buy a horse IS scrounging and immoral. That is our opnion, which we are entitled to ans something that is of course going to be aired when it's public begging. Fit to do her job is unfair but no one actually said that. Many HAVE said that falling in love with a transient horse is a job risk and something the girl needs to learn to deal with. As for neglecting her current horses: is that true? Many have questioned it since someone ( who appears to be in the know) had mentioned it.



Again, that is peoples opinion. A dealer who encouranges a groom to beg for money to buy one of their horses IS unprofessional and quite possibly immoral. Money grabbing is debatable.  As for being a 'dodgy dealer', that's a different kettle of fish entirely and something some who have first hand experience of the dealer have mentioned.  


Giving money to a stranger to buy a horse they don't even know if she can afford to look after IS stupid. Are THEY stupid in general? Who knows.
		
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This is spot on


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## piebaldsparkle (10 November 2013)

Kallibear said:



			I don't see anyone being directly cruel to the groom. In many people's opionion, inc mine,  begging for money to buy a horse IS scrounging and immoral. That is our opnion, which we are entitled to ans something that is of course going to be aired when it's public begging. Fit to do her job is unfair but no one actually said that. Many HAVE said that falling in love with a transient horse is a job risk and something the girl needs to learn to deal with. As for neglecting her current horses: is that true? Many have questioned it since someone ( who appears to be in the know) had mentioned it.



Again, that is peoples opinion. A dealer who encouranges a groom to beg for money to buy one of their horses IS unprofessional and quite possibly immoral. Money grabbing is debatable.  As for being a 'dodgy dealer', that's a different kettle of fish entirely and something some who have first hand experience of the dealer have mentioned.  


Giving money to a stranger to buy a horse they don't even know if she can afford to look after IS stupid. Are THEY stupid in general? Who knows.
		
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**Claps** Well put Kalibear


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## Ibblebibble (10 November 2013)

Carrots&Mints said:



			I hope you have all read the status on fb now. The police have been involved and I hope to god its got nothing to do with you lot on here! But after reading some disgusting and vile comments nothing would surprise me.
		
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D_Cheadle87 said:



			The police are involved and the fact people turned up at her mums house last night while she was out and upset and frightened her mum is awful i thought you were all caring and worried about the horses etc... no you just bullies and should be ashamed of your selves!
		
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ohhh the evil HHO, a relatively small forum compared with the size of facebook where this 'story' has been merrily doing the rounds as well, have you contacted all those on FB who don't agree with this begging and told them what vile bullies they are, i suspect not! 
why is it the defenders of all things scam like and dodgy on FB always accuse everyone who see's through them as being bullies and haters, the money scammers always claim they have been visited at night and that the police are involved ?! and why are scam supporters always incoherant ranters! it's like Clwyd and the ponies in the lounge woman all over again!


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## MadBlackLab (10 November 2013)

And this is why I don't have facebook too much info about you  can be found on facebook


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## DragonSlayer (10 November 2013)

Kallibear said:



			I don't see anyone being directly cruel to the groom. In many people's opionion, inc mine,  begging for money to buy a horse IS scrounging and immoral. That is our opnion, which we are entitled to ans something that is of course going to be aired when it's public begging. Fit to do her job is unfair but no one actually said that. Many HAVE said that falling in love with a transient horse is a job risk and something the girl needs to learn to deal with. As for neglecting her current horses: is that true? Many have questioned it since someone ( who appears to be in the know) had mentioned it.



Again, that is peoples opinion. A dealer who encouranges a groom to beg for money to buy one of their horses IS unprofessional and quite possibly immoral. Money grabbing is debatable.  As for being a 'dodgy dealer', that's a different kettle of fish entirely and something some who have first hand experience of the dealer have mentioned.  


Giving money to a stranger to buy a horse they don't even know if she can afford to look after IS stupid. Are THEY stupid in general? Who knows.
		
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Very well put.


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## CrazyCobLady (10 November 2013)

HandleyCross said:



			And this is why I don't have facebook too much info about you  can be found on facebook
		
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Aye. Probably shouldn't have joined facebook to start with - Can't seem to delete it myself from it as I spend hours mindlessly browsing.


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## Amymay (10 November 2013)

So well put Kallibear and Ibblebible.


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## DragonSlayer (10 November 2013)

CrazyCobLady said:



			Aye. Probably shouldn't have joined facebook to start with - Can't seem to delete it myself from it as I spend hours mindlessly browsing.
		
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Hah! It's a devil BUT....with all the family I have all over the world, it's the best way to stay in touch.

I do know that my account is tied up tight with only my name and profile picture to be seen, except for friends of course.....best way really. Everyone should have this done if they haven't already done so.


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## CrazyCobLady (10 November 2013)

DragonSlayer said:



			Hah! It's a devil BUT....with all the family I have all over the world, it's the best way to stay in touch.

I do know that my account is tied up tight with only my name and profile picture to be seen, except for friends of course.....best way really. Everyone should have this done if they haven't already done so.
		
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Oh yes. I am the same. Although I find myself joining groups and getting into arguments with idiots.


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## DragonSlayer (10 November 2013)

CrazyCobLady said:



			Oh yes. I am the same. Although I find myself joining groups and getting into arguments with idiots.
		
Click to expand...

I hear ya!

I have left MANY horse pages because of this very reason... 

It's very true, that thing I heard....about an alien landing on this planet and asking the first person it saw, what's the most useful item you have?

'I have here a device that allows me to access all the information in the world and I use it to look at pictures of cats and get into arguments with strangers'....

...or something along those lines! Can't remember where I heard/read that...!


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## CrazyCobLady (10 November 2013)

DragonSlayer said:



			I hear ya!

I have left MANY horse pages because of this very reason... 

It's very true, that thing I heard....about an alien landing on this planet and asking the first person it saw, what's the most useful item you have?

'I have here a device that allows me to access all the information in the world and I use it to look at pictures of cats and get into arguments with strangers'....

...or something along those lines! Can't remember where I heard/read that...!
		
Click to expand...

I must admit, I am one of those 'cat people' who uploads photo's of the cats.
But yes, ruddy 'CC&T' along with others. 

''Is my mare pregnant. Has being on grass forever and has never seen a stallion but has a bit of a belly.''
Shut up .


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## DragonSlayer (10 November 2013)

CrazyCobLady said:



			I must admit, I am one of those 'cat people' who uploads photo's of the cats.
But yes, ruddy 'CC&T' along with others. 

''Is my mare pregnant. Has being on grass forever and has never seen a stallion but has a bit of a belly.''
Shut up .



Click to expand...

~snickers somewhat~


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## CrazyCobLady (10 November 2013)

DragonSlayer said:



			~snickers somewhat~



Click to expand...

We have completely de-railed this thread.


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## Arizahn (10 November 2013)

CrazyCobLady said:



			We have completely de-railed this thread. 

Click to expand...

Am proud of you


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## CrazyCobLady (10 November 2013)

Arizahn said:



			Am proud of you  

Click to expand...

Why thank you dear.


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## DragonSlayer (10 November 2013)

Awesomeness!


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## CrazyCobLady (10 November 2013)

Anybody fancy a cuppa? Seriously bored tonight.


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## DragonSlayer (10 November 2013)

Yes please! I'm just finishing me tea, got a spot of ironing to do but just son's uniform....then it's laaazzzeeeee time!


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## Arizahn (10 November 2013)

Takeaway just arrived. This is good. Husband just joined HHO. This is...er...going to be interesting?


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## Anglebracket (10 November 2013)

I disagree that the behaviour was immoral. Had the groom asked for money for cancer  treatment and used it on a horse that would be immoral. Had the dealer inflated the asking price to make additional profit that would have been immoral. But they were pretty honest about what the money would be spend on. I therefore don't think that they have done anything immoral. I'd be be very interested in understanding why people think that it is.


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## CrazyCobLady (10 November 2013)

DragonSlayer said:



			Yes please! I'm just finishing me tea, got a spot of ironing to do but just son's uniform....then it's laaazzzeeeee time!
		
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Oooh! The joys of being child-less. Cuppa ready and waiting for your safe return. 



Arizahn said:



			Takeaway just arrived. This is good. Husband just joined HHO. This is...er...going to be interesting?
		
Click to expand...

Nom! Okay, Name 'N Shame


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## MadBlackLab (10 November 2013)

Anglebracket said:



			I disagree that the behaviour was immoral. Had the groom asked for money for cancer  treatment and used it on a horse that would be immoral. Had the dealer inflated the asking price to make additional profit that would have been immoral. But they were pretty honest about what the money would be spend on. I therefore don't think that they have done anything immoral. I'd be be very interested in understanding why people think that it is.
		
Click to expand...

If she cant afford to buy the horse how the hell she going to be able to avoid to keep it that's what people are getting upset about. They are worried about the welfare of the horse


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## CrazyCobLady (10 November 2013)

HandleyCross said:



			If she cant afford to buy the horse how the hell she going to be able to avoid to keep it that's what people are getting upset about. They are worried about the welfare of the horse
		
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Mmmhm.


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## SatansLittleHelper (10 November 2013)

Arizahn said:



			Takeaway just arrived. This is good. Husband just joined HHO. This is...er...going to be interesting?
		
Click to expand...

Takeaway..?? OhhhIm jealous....bluddy starving


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## CrazyCobLady (10 November 2013)

SatansLittleHelper said:



			Takeaway..?? OhhhIm jealous....bluddy starving 

Click to expand...

Grab yourself a menu and order your own!


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## Anglebracket (10 November 2013)

HandleyCross said:



			If she cant afford to buy the horse how the hell she going to be able to avoid to keep it that's what people are getting upset about. They are worried about the welfare of the horse
		
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Thanks for answering. 

If you can't afford to keep a horse (I.e. pay for its grazing and medical care) you should not buy a horse or accept it as a gift. On that we agree.

However, this is a separate issue from asking for money to buy it. One of the perks of being a groom is often discounted livery. Also, grooms often either live on site or with their parents, so the horse will probably be her main outgoing. I therefore don't think that not being able to pay the lump sum right now necessarily means that she can't afford to care for the horse. 

Is this your only reason for finding it immoral or are are there others?


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## mixedspice (10 November 2013)

thankyou


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## lucianna97 (10 November 2013)

Totally agree with you!


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## DragonSlayer (10 November 2013)

Anglebracket said:



			Thanks for answering. 

If you can't afford to keep a horse (I.e. pay for its grazing and medical care) you should not buy a horse or accept it as a gift. On that we agree.

However, this is a separate issue from asking for money to buy it. One of the perks of being a groom is often discounted livery. Also, grooms often either live on site or with their parents, so the horse will probably be her main outgoing. I therefore don't think that not being able to pay the lump sum right now necessarily means that she can't afford to care for the horse. 

Is this your only reason for finding it immoral or are are there others?
		
Click to expand...

I was always brought up to work for what I wanted. Asking or 'begging' for things just isn't the done thing. Maybe I'm old-fashioned....I don't know, but to ask publicly for money to fund something that is considered to be a 'luxury' is just not what I think is the right thing to do!

There are many deserving causes in this world, our greed and selfishness is sadly a horrid human trait, and one I've tried to educate my son about. If he told me he had a 'dream' to buy some big fancy computer and was asking the world to donate to his cause, I'd be kicking his backside around because it's not what we are about.

My opinion, and one I'm happy to discuss.


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## Queenbee (10 November 2013)

hannah12 said:



			Have any of you actually followed the story? They did not ask for money the girl said it as an idea and the supporters then took it on themselves and said let's give it a try. She does not have her own horses! I support cng and what they tried to do for this girl was truely amazing! For grown people to have threatened the girl disgusts me! Cng's reputation will not be hurt as they have true supporters and beautiful horses! When the time comes for me to buy, that is where I will be going as I know they do an amazing job. For you all to criticise what they're doing, take a moment to think that if you were the one they were doing this for I doubt you would be saying the same things. I know what it feels like to loose the horse that you have an unbreakable bond with and if you haven't followed the story from day one then you shouldn't judge with this hurtful comments! CNG I SUPPORT YOU ALL THE WAY!
		
Click to expand...


Actually, there is a post by cng saying "paiz, I think you may be onto something with your idea". Paiz's idea, fully supported and encouraged by cng


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## MadBlackLab (10 November 2013)

DragonSlayer said:



			I was always brought up to work for what I wanted. Asking or 'begging' for things just isn't the done thing. Maybe I'm old-fashioned....I don't know, but to ask publicly for money to fund something that is considered to be a 'luxury' is just not what I think is the right thing to do!

There are many deserving causes in this world, our greed and selfishness is sadly a horrid human trait, and one I've tried to educate my son about. If he told me he had a 'dream' to buy some big fancy computer and was asking the world to donate to his cause, I'd be kicking his backside around because it's not what we are about.

My opinion, and one I'm happy to discuss. 

Click to expand...

I agree with this


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## Arizahn (10 November 2013)

CrazyCobLady said:



			Oooh! The joys of being child-less. Cuppa ready and waiting for your safe return. 


Nom! Okay, Name 'N Shame 

Click to expand...

Ha ha, no way, he's on his own!


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## CrazyCobLady (10 November 2013)

Queenbee said:



			Actually, there is a post by cng saying "paiz, I think you may be onto something with your idea". Paiz's idea, fully supported and encouraged by cng
		
Click to expand...

Yep. I saw this.


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## CrazyCobLady (10 November 2013)

Arizahn said:



			Ha ha, no way, he's on his own!
		
Click to expand...

-Sits and keeps an eye open-


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## Arizahn (10 November 2013)

CrazyCobLady said:



			-Sits and keeps an eye open-


Click to expand...

< denies any and all responsibility for husband and his posts >


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## CrazyCobLady (10 November 2013)

Arizahn said:



			< denies any and all responsibility for husband and his posts >
		
Click to expand...


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## DragonSlayer (10 November 2013)

CrazyCobLady said:



			-Sits and keeps an eye open-


Click to expand...

~waits patiently for cup of tea~


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## Anglebracket (10 November 2013)

DragonSlayer said:



			I was always brought up to work for what I wanted. Asking or 'begging' for things just isn't the done thing. Maybe I'm old-fashioned....I don't know, but to ask publicly for money to fund something that is considered to be a 'luxury' is just not what I think is the right thing to do!

There are many deserving causes in this world, our greed and selfishness is sadly a horrid human trait, and one I've tried to educate my son about. If he told me he had a 'dream' to buy some big fancy computer and was asking the world to donate to his cause, I'd be kicking his backside around because it's not what we are about.

My opinion, and one I'm happy to discuss. 

Click to expand...

These are the reasons why I would not ask for public donations for my next horse purchase. However, I have no no strong feelings against someone else doing it. I'd get upset if someone made up a sick child to extract money from others but this is not the case here.

I guess that the rules I apply to my own conduct are stricter than the ones I use to judge others.


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## CrazyCobLady (10 November 2013)

DragonSlayer said:



			~waits patiently for cup of tea~
		
Click to expand...

Ruddy hell. Completely forgot.
-Flicks kettle on -

Any sugars?


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## FestiveFuzz (10 November 2013)

Not sure if I'm even allowed to post right now as apparently the powers that be deemed my last post to be defamatory (go figure!) and I've never been in trouble on the forum before. Anyone else get a slapped wrist from admin?


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## DragonSlayer (10 November 2013)

CrazyCobLady said:



			Ruddy hell. Completely forgot.
-Flicks kettle on -

Any sugars?
		
Click to expand...

Just milk ta, nice and strong though....



GG2B said:



			Not sure if I'm even allowed to post right now as apparently the powers that be deemed my last post to be defamatory (go figure!) and I've never been in trouble on the forum before. Anyone else get a slapped wrist from admin?
		
Click to expand...

Really? Not been told off in AGES, I guess someone took offence to what you posted and reported it...


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## Amymay (10 November 2013)

Me too.


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## CrazyCobLady (10 November 2013)

DragonSlayer said:



			Just milk ta, nice and strong though....
(
		
Click to expand...

Just the same as me.


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## DragonSlayer (10 November 2013)

Anglebracket said:



			These are the reasons why I would not ask for public donations for my next horse purchase. However, I have no no strong feelings against someone else doing it. I'd get upset if someone made up a sick child to extract money from others but this is not the case here.

I guess that the rules I apply to my own conduct are stricter than the ones I use to judge others.
		
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That's OK, we are all different and fine for you to feel this way. It was hoped the thread would be all about discussing the issue, but sadly it wasn't to be....


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## DragonSlayer (10 November 2013)

CrazyCobLady said:



			Just the same as me. 

Click to expand...

Epicness


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## FestiveFuzz (10 November 2013)

DragonSlayer said:



			Just milk ta, nice and strong though....



Really? Not been told off in AGES, I guess someone took offence to what you posted and reported it... 

Click to expand...

I'm really at a loss as to what I could have said but apparently it was defamatory *shrugs*



amymay said:



			Me too.
		
Click to expand...

Glad I'm not alone on the naughty step


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## CrazyCobLady (10 November 2013)

DragonSlayer said:



			Epicness 

Click to expand...

We're too similar!


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## DragonSlayer (10 November 2013)

CrazyCobLady said:



			We're too similar! 

Click to expand...

That's scary! 

Haha!


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## SatansLittleHelper (10 November 2013)

Tea..?? Ewwwwww yuck....Coffeeeeeeeee!!!!!!


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## Arizahn (10 November 2013)

SatansLittleHelper said:



			Tea..?? Ewwwwww yuck....Coffeeeeeeeee!!!!!!
		
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There is a wonderful little coffee shop I know of that makes cappacino with mars bars in it...


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## Fii (10 November 2013)

i do feel a bit sorry for this girl, but if you are going too do something like this, then there have too be rules in place first, other wise its all going to look like a scam, rules as to what happens to the money if it doesnt reach the amount needed to purchase this horse, what happens to the money if the whole thing goes t!ts upwards and the dealer pulls out !


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## Reevesy (10 November 2013)

Pidgeon said:



			Reminds me somewhat of the Clywd Davies saga. If you read everything the only ones being nasty are the newcomers/oldies who are sticking up for the dealer and the girl the HHO gang are quite rightly expressing their opinion on this matter. They can not post on the cng equine facebook page as negative comments are deleted as is the case in so many businesses so that people only see good about the person or business. It is in my opinion very flawed as is in part to blame for the blinkered views of the followers. IMO and yes I am allowed one last time I looked, is that the dealer was woefully remiss in what she has actively encouraged, albeit she didn't say to set a fund up but the inference was there. Unfortunately she did not anticipate this backlash as to be honest the people stating its the girls dream come true need to wake up and smell the roses, she already has horses whether her own or loaned so how come its a dream to own this particular horse? Dealer is selling it to her for the advertised price hence would have been making a nice profit on the deal. What she should have done was offer the horse to the girl and deduct out of her wages if she was that concerned about the horse. 
This whole business leaves a very sour taste and I am appalled at the bigoted and nasty comments the followers are posting on here and on facebook. Whatever happened to having a good old fashioned discussion without all the hatred coming out so quickly, ho hum can't educate the blinded I suppose.
		
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Mmmm... Coffee & Mars bars!! &#128523;


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## Reevesy (10 November 2013)

Oops!! &#128532;


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## Arizahn (10 November 2013)

Reevesy said:



			Oops!! &#55357;&#56852;
		
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Lol!


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## Reevesy (10 November 2013)

Can you tell Im new!! &#128516;


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## SatansLittleHelper (11 November 2013)

Arizahn said:



			There is a wonderful little coffee shop I know of that makes cappacino with mars bars in it...
		
Click to expand...

I NEEEEED this with immediate effect!!!!!


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## The wife (11 November 2013)

Fii said:



			i do feel a bit sorry for this girl, but if you are going too do something like this, then there have too be rules in place first, other wise its all going to look like a scam, rules as to what happens to the money if it doesnt reach the amount needed to purchase this horse, what happens to the money if the whole thing goes t!ts upwards and the dealer pulls out !
		
Click to expand...

I do to a certain extent but it was very naive on both the girls part (although one can put that down to her age) and the dealers - who should have actually known better.  I vet much doubt that when they set the whole thing up they didn't expect it to explode so much but it did and unfortunately when dealing with a somewhat Emotive subject you have to be prepared for the consequences.  

There has been a lot of dirt thrown around, which I hope is hearsay, about loan horses arriving back to their owners in less that ideal states but again when somebody is willing to go so out there in the public eye, I think one needs to be beyond squeaky clean and ensure that  no dirt is likely to be brought up.

i do think to start with it was aimed at being a genuinely nice thing to do, albeit, IMO morally incorrect, naive, silly and childish and in light of everything the dealers have acted quite sensibly to the backlash but I think it's too little too late.

i really do hope they issue the money to a needing charity rather tha continue to use it to fund a girls dream.  There are so many charities that desperately need that money that many of the donors would have bypassed that I hope a good thing can come out of situation that was less than ideal and everybody involved learns an important lesson while dealing with live animals as a business.


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## henmother (11 November 2013)

Wow, what a thread!! I just wanted to add that I think you are all far from a bunch of vile bitches/witches,whatever has been said. Those brand new members who seem to be just  looking for scrap, shame on you. I
 have had some great help & fantastic support from the members of this group, and I know i'm not the only one that has found comfort from the words written by members.  I've also had some very thoughtful private messages. I thank you all for your kind words.

I've been brought up to save for what i want, if you can't buy it you can't have it. No begging, certainly no setup to accept donations from strangers!!! If its not out of your own pocket it will never be truly yours.


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## Amymay (11 November 2013)

henmother said:



			Those brand new members who seem to be just  looking for scrap, shame on you.
		
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I think to be fair to them they were only attempting to defend a person who they thought was not doing anything wrong - the same with the dealers.

It is interesting reading the fb page though, where many comments question how much love for the horse we actually have.  They also consider us jealous and nasty.

Funny really, considering the reasons why so many of us are opposed to this sort of venture.


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## henmother (11 November 2013)

You can defend someone without calling people though surely. 
Nasty,no, jealous , hell no!!


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## Amymay (11 November 2013)

henmother said:



			You can defend someone without calling people though surely. 
Nasty,no, jealous , hell no!!
		
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Perhaps.  I suppose it depends on whether you have the intelligence to form a coherent argument or not............


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## ihatework (11 November 2013)

amymay said:



			Perhaps.  I suppose it depends on whether you have the intelligence to form a coherent argument or not............
		
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Now amymay, you wouldn't be hinting they might be thick chavs would you?!
Ooops


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## Amymay (11 November 2013)

ihatework said:



			Now amymay, you wouldn't be hinting they might be thick chavs would you?!
Ooops
		
Click to expand...

Well.....

But seriously, actually no.  Just no real experience with the wider equine world.


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## FinnishLapphund (11 November 2013)

Reevesy said:



			Can you tell Im new!! &#62980;
		
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Hello and welcome! And don't worry, it isn't just newbies that makes mistakes when they post, at least, I know that I still make mistakes now and then when I post. But if you realise it in time, you have 15 minutes on you to Edit and change your reply, e.g. correct a spelling mistake, write an Edited To Add, say Oops wrong quote etc. 

I really have nothing against newbies in general, as The wife said, we all have to start off as new posters once. To me, it all depends on how the newbie behaves, and when they only seems to have became members in order to behave as this

[youtube]rcQuyqMo-Z0[/youtube]

I'm inclined to presume that they're only here to cause trouble.


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## pip6 (11 November 2013)

From reading this thread, I can get it was the idea of followers of CNG to donate, but as soon as this was suggested, the groom & dealer should have politely refused. If a follower, as suggested, had wanted to just turn up & pay for the horse for the groom with their own money, then that is there perogative. Not what I'd do, but we are all different. In no way should have an account been set up to receive 'donations', they are not a registered charity so it is begging. Whilst the groom may have been immature enough to not realise the implications, any adults involved should have & stopped it before any monies had been given & very definately not set up an account to receive them. 

If the dealer truly wanted the girl to take the horse, she should have loaned her whilst she paid off the at cost price. As others have said, if she can afford to keep the horse, buy rugs etc, that money could have been put towards buying her every week until paid off. My first horse I took on loan, on a low wage. After 2 years I asked the owner if I could buy her & we agreed I would take over her full costs (about same as loan agreement) & pay her a set amount each week from my wages until I'd paid in full. Then she would transfer her registration / ownership over to me. I didn't expect anyone else to give a penny. 

A very valid point was made that if you work at a dealers then you must learn to maintain a little distance from your charges, they are not yours (unless you can afford to buy one). I breed foals for other people to enjoy. Everyone I've loved dearly, but there has been that tiny bit where you remind yourself you are their first, temporary carer until their owner takes them away to embark on the next stage of their lives. The one I bred for myself to keep for life I gave my heart to totally. She has been treated no differently, no special attention, the only difference is in my head. I will keep breeding foals for people, & enjoy every moment of their lives with friends (we are in regular contact with our owners, who are all or have become friends), but I know I am a temporary guardian to bring them on when young, they will be owned & deeply loved by another. 

As for the rudeness, IMHO the regular members have been restrained (no doubt why they haven't been banned), it is the new members, who are obviously very closely connected to the dealer & groom who have been rude & should be concerned re libel. I'm a member on here, does that mean that I am also assumed to have issued death threats / upset mum / gone round to the house? Be very careful who you accuse publically of doing what, I'm very happy to chat with the Police, as I am sure are all other HHOs.


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## Reevesy (11 November 2013)

Ahh.. I only signed up to this to get advice on mud fever lol..  I stumbled across this thread and had a flick through it as id seen a few things on FB, Ive had no reason to comment as its none of my business.  
I saw a conversation had started about Cappachino and Mars bars and had to comment. P


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## *hic* (11 November 2013)

Beware, that's how you get dragged in


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## pip6 (11 November 2013)

To place something in a public domain such as Facebook leaves you open to critique & comment.


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## Arizahn (11 November 2013)

There is also expresso with malteasers...


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## MadBlackLab (11 November 2013)

pip6 said:



			To place something in a public domain such as Facebook leaves you open to critique & comment.
		
Click to expand...

This is true. If they didn't want public opinion she shouldn't made it public


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## The wife (11 November 2013)

And port on hunt mornings!  it's the only time I can get away with drinking before 11am without being branded an alcoholic.


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## Adopter (11 November 2013)

Arizahn said:



			There is also expresso with malteasers...

Click to expand...

I think WD need more detail of where to find this wonderful establishment.


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## Adopter (11 November 2013)

The wife said:



			And port on hunt mornings!  it's the only time I can get away with drinking before 11am without being branded an alcoholic.
		
Click to expand...

My late MIL developed a habit of gin in milk for breakfast after a trip to see a friend abroad !


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## southerncomfort (11 November 2013)

Arizahn said:



			There is also expresso with malteasers...

Click to expand...

Or 'small geezers' as my Mum calls them.  And no...I don't know why she calls them that!

Mind you...espresso with small geezers definately sounds a bit weird.


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## helenandbessie (11 November 2013)

I cannot believe you people on here! if anyone had read the facts instead of just jumping behind a computer giving your tuppence worth you would know about the story.  

This young girl has horses of her own and I believe at her own yard. I have had horses since a young age and I have never brought one my self as I couldn't afford to buy outright but can afford the upkeep! (Including insurance!!) does this make me a bad owner!!! NO it bloody doesn't!! my horses have never been without! EVER! 

this poor girl wanted THAT horse not just another horse! that horse had fell in love with her like she had with it. also on a grooms wage you cant really afford a big outright payment. (I've been there!)

no one made any one donate it was just an 'idea' they were joking around about originally and then thought they'd give it a go! 
CNG cannot give the girl the horse as at the end of the day they are a business so do need the money for the business.

I cannot believe the THREATs they have received from jealous people. if you didn't like the idea don't follow or donate! 

Congratulations to all you pathetic people this poor girl and poor horse now will end up with their hearts broken!


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## Amymay (11 November 2013)

helenandbessie said:



			Congratulations to all you pathetic people this poor girl and poor horse now will end up with their hearts broken!
		
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Oh get over yourself you silly girl.


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## CrazyCobLady (11 November 2013)

helenandbessie said:



			I cannot believe you people on here! if anyone had read the facts instead of just jumping behind a computer giving your tuppence worth you would know about the story.  

This young girl has horses of her own and I believe at her own yard. I have had horses since a young age and I have never brought one my self as I couldn't afford to buy outright but can afford the upkeep! (Including insurance!!) does this make me a bad owner!!! NO it bloody doesn't!! my horses have never been without! EVER! 

this poor girl wanted THAT horse not just another horse! that horse had fell in love with her like she had with it. also on a grooms wage you cant really afford a big outright payment. (I've been there!)

no one made any one donate it was just an 'idea' they were joking around about originally and then thought they'd give it a go! 
CNG cannot give the girl the horse as at the end of the day they are a business so do need the money for the business.

I cannot believe the THREATs they have received from jealous people. if you didn't like the idea don't follow or donate! 

Congratulations to all you pathetic people this poor girl and poor horse now will end up with their hearts broken!
		
Click to expand...

Welcome to the forum !


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## Carrots&Mints (11 November 2013)

helenandbessie said:



			I cannot believe you people on here! if anyone had read the facts instead of just jumping behind a computer giving your tuppence worth you would know about the story.  

This young girl has horses of her own and I believe at her own yard. I have had horses since a young age and I have never brought one my self as I couldn't afford to buy outright but can afford the upkeep! (Including insurance!!) does this make me a bad owner!!! NO it bloody doesn't!! my horses have never been without! EVER! 

this poor girl wanted THAT horse not just another horse! that horse had fell in love with her like she had with it. also on a grooms wage you cant really afford a big outright payment. (I've been there!)

no one made any one donate it was just an 'idea' they were joking around about originally and then thought they'd give it a go! 
CNG cannot give the girl the horse as at the end of the day they are a business so do need the money for the business.

I cannot believe the THREATs they have received from jealous people. if you didn't like the idea don't follow or donate! 

Congratulations to all you pathetic people this poor girl and poor horse now will end up with their hearts broken!
		
Click to expand...

My thoughts exactly! I couldn't afford to buy my horse but I came into some money and luckily I has enough cash! But if I didn't that doesn't mean I can't afford the up keep of a horse! 

Damn right disgusting you lot treating a young girl like you have done you should ALL be ashamed of yourselves!!!!!! Instead of being negative you should support her!

Vile creatures


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## Amymay (11 November 2013)

Carrots&Mints said:



			Instead of being negative you should support her!
		
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Support her in what?  Her dreams to add another horse to her collection?

In all seriousness where (on a grooms wages) does the money come from to afford the livery, and everything else that goes with it, 3 or 4 horses?

Really I'd like to know - because on my salary having two almost bankrupted me and I can assure you I earn a hell of a lot more than a groom.

This is not about dashing someone's dreams.  It's about good old fashioned common sense.


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## helenandbessie (11 November 2013)

amymay said:



			Oh get over yourself you silly girl.
		
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excuse me!...... this is my point!
we all have our own opinions..... and people like your self are obviously bullies!


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## CrazyCobLady (11 November 2013)

amymay said:



			Support her in what?  Her dreams to add another horse to her collection?

In all seriousness where (on a grooms wages) does the money come from to afford the livery, and everything else that goes with it, 3 or 4 horses?

Really I'd like to know - because on my salary having two almost bankrupted me and I can assure you I earn a hell of a lot more than a groom.

This is not about dashing someone's dreams.  It's about good old fashioned common sense.
		
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Again, hit the nail on the head.


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## Amymay (11 November 2013)

helenandbessie said:



			excuse me!...... this is my point!
we all have our own opinions..... and people like your self are obviously bullies!
		
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Sorry - what is your point?  Because all I see is hysteria in your post.

I'm not a bully - I've just got a brain.

Oh, and I fell in love with a particular horse once - but I didn't have the money to buy her at the time.  Guess what? She was sold to someone else.  A wonderful home, and is still in that wonderful home (probably a better home than I could have provided).  I lived......


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## CrazyCobLady (11 November 2013)

helenandbessie said:



			excuse me!...... this is my point!
we all have our own opinions..... and people like your self are obviously bullies!
		
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Bullies because we have an opinion? So, you're a bully too. Takes one to know one .


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## Dogrose (11 November 2013)

I've dreamed all my life of having a horse but never had any money, at nearly 50 maybe it is time to forget my horsey dreams, unless I can get other people to pay for them! Why not? You wouldn't all want to see me sad would you? 
I learned a long time ago, with any animal, the buying price is not the biggest expense. If you can't afford to buy a horse, who pays if it gets ill or injured? Another Face Book charity drive? 
 Why should strangers buy a horse for a girl who already has horses when there are thousands of girls who spend their lives dreaming of ponies but can't even get near a horse?
I'm sure if you work with horses you will always come across the occasional one that you bond with. You can't buy them all.
And what is with the whole jealousy thing? As soon as someone has a differing viewpoint the jealousy card gets pulled, most of the people on this board, I'm sure, have nice horses of their own and aren't the slightest bit jealous.


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## helenandbessie (11 November 2013)

my point is jumping on people ... like you have just done to me. 

I really don't think you get the gist of the whole thing! the girl wanted THIS horse not just any horse or even another horse, as they fell in love with each other. I assume you are a horse owner so should know how this feels when you are young. 
just because a girl wants a dream to come true doesn't mean she doesn't have common sense! she has enough to support the horse, but hadn't saved to buy one as she wasn't planning to. CNG cant let her loan the horse or have instalments as it is a business, their sales from their horses buy in others and pay their upkeep and wages! 

no point being harsh about a young girls dream and completely trashing it! and starting up a thread about the whole thing just to get others to jump on the slagging off bandwagon is beyond me! 

the poor girl has had people threaten her and CNG is totally crazy! if you didn't find it a good cause don't look an move on!


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## koeffee (11 November 2013)

CrazyCobLady said:



			Bullies because we have an opinion? So, you're a bully too. Takes one to know one .
		
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What i find very sad is the poor girl has been hounded and bullied, has people coming to her home etc, i just hope your kids dont make an error one day being naive, because i think you have all acting appalling. Yes you allowed and opinion but i think you are all very low.


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## CrazyCobLady (11 November 2013)

koeffee said:



			What i find very sad is the poor girl has been hounded and bullied, has people coming to her home etc, i just hope your kids dont make an error one day being naive, because i think you have all acting appalling. Yes you allowed and opinion but i think you are all very low.
		
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I don't have children nor do I wish to have any . Everybody is entitled to their own opinion and posting all this on facebook, where everybody can see it is bound to cause controversy - Which it clearly did. To say you think we're all low is insulting and no wonder people react to such comments in the way we do. Clearly you are no better than any of us.


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## Amymay (11 November 2013)

helenandbessie said:



			my point is jumping on people ... like you have just done to me.
		
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Have a little read back at your initial post - and ask yourself who was doing the jumping.




			I really don't think you get the gist of the whole thing! the girl wanted THIS horse not just any horse or even another horse, as they fell in love with each other. I assume you are a horse owner so should know how this feels when you are young.
		
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Oh, how many of us have been in this situation? Many of us I think.  As outlined above it happened to me and big time.  BUT I didn't have the money at the time for this particular horse, so was unable to buy it.  I cried I admit it.  But really in the big scheme of things was it the end of the world?  No of course not.





			just because a girl wants a dream to come true doesn't mean she doesn't have common sense! she has enough to support the horse, but hadn't saved to buy one as she wasn't planning to. CNG cant let her loan the horse or have instalments as it is a business, their sales from their horses buy in others and pay their upkeep and wages!
		
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Absolutely a valid point.  I think it's more so the people who were chucking money at this that are lacking common sense to be fair, and their reaction to those who were pointing out the pit falls of such a scheme.  All this spouting on about jealousy, haters and bullies is just nonsense.  But the bottom line is no money = no horse.  And actually the dealers with whom this horse is based can do anything they want.  They are not restricted in how they run that business.





			the poor girl has had people threaten her and CNG is totally crazy! if you didn't find it a good cause don't look an move on!
		
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Which is totally outrageous.  I wonder what the foundation of the threats were though.  It's very puzzling.


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## Grinchmass (11 November 2013)

helenandbessie said:



			my point is jumping on people ... like you have just done to me. 

I really don't think you get the gist of the whole thing! the girl wanted THIS horse not just any horse or even another horse, as they fell in love with each other. I assume you are a horse owner so should know how this feels when you are young. 
just because a girl wants a dream to come true doesn't mean she doesn't have common sense! she has enough to support the horse, but hadn't saved to buy one as she wasn't planning to. CNG cant let her loan the horse or have instalments as it is a business, their sales from their horses buy in others and pay their upkeep and wages! 

no point being harsh about a young girls dream and completely trashing it! and starting up a thread about the whole thing just to get others to jump on the slagging off bandwagon is beyond me! 

the poor girl has had people threaten her and CNG is totally crazy! if you didn't find it a good cause don't look an move on!
		
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This horse, that horse, or no bond the principle is still the same.  I would love Valero, I feel that he would be right for me,will people set up an Internet fund to buy him for me... When I was younger,  the pony I used to ride at the riding school I felt I had a really close bond to... He was sold elsewhere, and life goes on.


The thing is I judge others with the same expectations I would put on myself. I don't think it was the wisest thing to do to ask people to put donations to buying me a horse, I would feel ashamed of myself.  However I get that the girl is young and probably quite naive. However I get the dealer may have been a bit naive but she should have had the forsight to see the damage this could do for the business, when to all intents and purposes it looks like she's begging the public for a sale (I'm not saying this is what she was doing but look at the objective perspective).


The people who have threatened the girl and have been to her home I'm assuming know her personally, especially the ones who have been to her home. There is no excuse for this and it's despicable.

However, the fact is that when you make a matter public, and I've seen it written that it was a private matter, well sorry no, it was on Facebook so completely public, then you open yourself up to criticism and negative press. Any business should be aware of any actions they take, in particular on a public platform.


You coming here to call people bullies is hardly helping your own arguments, people are entitled to have an opinion,  and when something is in the public domain it will be expressed publicly.


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## WelshD (11 November 2013)

amymay said:



			Support her in what?  Her dreams to add another horse to her collection?

In all seriousness where (on a grooms wages) does the money come from to afford the livery, and everything else that goes with it, 3 or 4 horses?

Really I'd like to know - because on my salary having two almost bankrupted me and I can assure you I earn a hell of a lot more than a groom.

This is not about dashing someone's dreams.  It's about good old fashioned common sense.
		
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I agree with this

The horse will not have a broken heart, if it is a good horse it should find a good home

As for the girl she will grow up to really understand what a problem is and what heartbreak actually means soon enough

If the girl wants the horse badly enough she will free up some of her weekly/monthly wage by giving up the other horses she has an involvement in and take a trip to the bank, a reasonably solvent person can get their hands on a surprising amount of money.... if she isnt solvent then she shouldnt be comtemplating the purchase


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## hairycob (11 November 2013)

1) I doubt the horses heart will be broken

2) If either of my kids tried something like that I would be jumping on them before anyone else had a chance to. But then they know better than to try.


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## Grinchmass (11 November 2013)

koeffee said:



			What i find very sad is the poor girl has been hounded and bullied, has people coming to her home etc, i just hope your kids dont make an error one day being naive, because i think you have all acting appalling. Yes you allowed and opinion but i think you are all very low.
		
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To be honest it's the girl I feel most sorry for, she is young and naive. The dealer should have have the forsight to see flaws, with an issue so controversial, on such a public platform should be obvious, and should have stopped this to help protect her staff.  I'm not saying it wasn't set about with good intentions.


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## helenandbessie (11 November 2013)

my initial post was about every one in general that was hounding the poor girl & CNG and throwing threats around not you personally.... so for you to call me a 'silly little girl' is beyond me... do you know me? nope.... I could be older than you for all you know! 

Yes I admit 'most' of us have probably been in the exact same situation but if you didn't want to donate you didn't have to. all my point is that it wasn't fair that the girl was given a glimmer of hope not just by CNG for the offer of giving her some towards it but by many of the general public for their generosity (which they DIDNT have to do). a lot of people thought this was a lovely thing to do. 

I didn't donate as charity starts at home with mine! I wasn't pressured to, like others wasn't that did donate. 

just think its been totally blown out of control..... just over helping someone chase a dream with help from others (if they wanted to)


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## laura_v (11 November 2013)

MrsJingle said:



			I haven't read every page of this, nor have I seen the facebook page. I know it is very bad form to make a comment on a thread without reading every single minute detail therein. But I shall comment and be damned.  

We now have a second rate, hitherto not very well known dealer who has now managed, with a little help from his stable girl, to get his name and trade spread out far beyond even his wildest dreams. And the real plus is the pair of them have managed to pull in some very nice dosh at the same time from gullible members of the public. 

You have to agree it is a genius piece of marketing. OK, he might attract a few negative comments, but it would seem that they are FAR outweighed by all the interest now been shown in his trading stock. 

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Hmmm MrsJingle .... sorry but I am going to have to be pedantic and ask you, who said the dealer was a he?... I only point it out because as a woman who has worked extremely hard against the 'male' glass ceiling in my workplace I find it a little annoying when fellow women (I'm assuming you are a woman by your name on this forum) confer to the sexual prejudices that still exist. 

With regards to C N G equine I believe one of the main people involved in the running of the business is actually a woman! 

Furthermore, I know of a horse on my yard that has come from this dealer and irrelevant of the story to which this thread refers to, I can say the horse I know is a delightful horse with no vices or faults at all. Furthermore, if that is the standard of horses that come from this dealer, I will be considering them for my next horse in years to come. Because to be frank I although I didn't donate to this groom to buy this horse, at the same time I couldn't give a toss if people did! Afterall, I borrowed £500 from my partner to buy my own horse, as it wasn't the monthly cost but the initial outlay for him that I struggled with all those years ago. 

Unfortunately, I see all to often in the horse world people with money that buy horses too strong for them or just simply don't have a clue of how to look after them. Many a good horse are spoilt abnd ruined this way by people with more money than sense and behavioural problems develop later on. With that said all to often I see those that can look after horses but struggle with the initial cost of purchasing them. I agree horses are expensive but a good horse insurance policy at £20 p/m will cover £3000 of vet bills, and if you keep a horse out a grass on your own rented land it is a fraction of the cost of a full livery. So let's not be quick to say if you can't afford £1800 right now to purchase the horse that you therefore can't afford the monthly cost of a horse full stop. 

One final point is this, those that gave their money to C N G may be thought of as 'mugs' by others on this forum, and some have said they should donate to charity instead. My issue with these comments are as follows: Firstly, you assuming they don't give to charities when a lot of them have said they do, so as they saying goes 'you've made a *ass* out of *u* and *me*'. Secondly, how many of us fritter away £3 odd on a fancy latte, well if they wanted to instead give £3 to a stranger, well maybe that was the point, instead of frittering it away they liked the idea of helping a stranger out!


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## CrazyCobLady (11 November 2013)

helenandbessie said:



			my initial post was about every one in general that was hounding the poor girl & CNG and throwing threats around not you personally.... so for you to call me a 'silly little girl' is beyond me... do you know me? nope.... I could be older than you for all you know!
		
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Since you joined this forum, every post of yours has being rude and unnecessary . Hence our opinions on you.
Age is irrelevant. You're still acting like a child .


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## Grinchmass (11 November 2013)

helenandbessie said:



			Yes I admit 'most' of us have probably been in the exact same situation but if you didn't want to donate you didn't have to. all my point is that it wasn't fair that the girl was given a glimmer of hope not just by CNG for the offer of giving her some towards it but by many of the general public for their generosity (which they DIDNT have to do). a lot of people thought this was a lovely thing to do.
		
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This is part of my point, the dealer should have put a stop to it as if things go belly up, it's just a complete mess. Damaging to a young girl,  and their business. On the other hand this has probably taught them a valuable lesson about thinking what they publish on social media or on the internet in general. The dealer also never considered any possible legal implications of starting such a collection.


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## helenandbessie (11 November 2013)

who ever can join what ever they like and have an opinion, cant they?!?.... sorry am I being rude and unnecessary because I am not slagging of a young girl and her dream!


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## hairycob (11 November 2013)

No it's the way you talk to everybody else on here


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## CrazyCobLady (11 November 2013)

helenandbessie said:



			who ever can join what ever they like and have an opinion, cant they?!?.... sorry am I being rude and unnecessary because I am not slagging of a young girl and her dream!
		
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Nope, but you've just repeated what I said. EVERYBODY is entitled to their OWN opinion. It doesn't make us nasty or horrible it's just our view. Just like you have yours !

I am sorry this girl is upset but the horse isn't going to know any different and most certainly will not be 'heartbroken' . As harsh as it sounds, it really is better she doesn't get this horse and maybe in a few years when she looks back on this, she'll realize that it was the best decision for the horse.


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## helenandbessie (11 November 2013)

Christ! I hadn't said that you guys wasn't entitled to your opinion nor did I say that the horse would be heartbroken NOR did I say any of you personally was nasty! I was purely letting folk know the story as some of you (not you personally) seem to have facts slightly off course! 

I will leave it at that........ its silly arguing over things like this and people to judge you personally!


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## CrazyCobLady (11 November 2013)

helenandbessie said:



			Christ! I hadn't said that you guys wasn't entitled to your opinion nor did I say that the horse would be heartbroken NOR did I say any of you personally was nasty! I was purely letting folk know the story as some of you (not you personally) seem to have facts slightly off course! 

I will leave it at that........ its silly arguing over things like this and people to judge you personally!
		
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That's what happens on forums i'm afraid ..


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## Jim Moriarty (11 November 2013)

helenandbessie said:



			my initial post was about every one in general that was hounding the poor girl & CNG and throwing threats around
		
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Where are these threats? I must have missed them, but I have been in and out (of consciousness) over the weekend.


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## Grinchmass (11 November 2013)

I for one have seen the posts, and read the facts, and have formed my opinion on such.

Just because someone doesn't share your view does not mean they have not read the whole story.


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## WelshD (11 November 2013)

helenandbessie said:



			Congratulations to all you pathetic people this poor girl and poor horse now will end up with their hearts broken!
		
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Here is where you said the horse would have its heart broken


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## CrazyCobLady (11 November 2013)

It's funny to see people come on here just to cause trouble. Stick to facebook!


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## ester (11 November 2013)

WelshD said:



			The horse will not have a broken heart.
		
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I have hereby informed Frank that he must be more broken hearted if I go away in future and someone else has to feed him


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## Jim Moriarty (11 November 2013)

CrazyCobLady said:



			It's funny to see people come on here just to cause trouble. Stick to facebook!
		
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That's where I suspect the 'threats' we have been accused of issuing originate, not here.

Similarly, I don't even think these 'newcomers' to the thread (yes, i know I'm one too), have actually read it and are just hopping onto the knee-jerk-reaction-to-bull-I-read-about-a-thread-on-H&H-on-Faceache bandwagon.


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## helenandbessie (11 November 2013)

OMFG! I will stick to Facebook at least its not like this! this is why I haven't been on for a couple of years everyone has their own opinions (which is fair enough) but wont allow other people to air their thoughts as you 'gang' up on them!


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## WelshD (11 November 2013)

ester said:



			I have hereby informed Frank that he must be more broken hearted if I go away in future and someone else has to feed him 

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Tell him he should probably stand in a corner with his head down scuffing his feet and looking dejected! at least he knows you will come back whereas the horse in this case now faces a life without the chance of anyone to love her. no one at all


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## CrazyCobLady (11 November 2013)

Jim Moriarty said:



			That's where I suspect the 'threats' we have been accused of issuing originate, not here.

Similarly, I don't even think these 'newcomers' to the thread (yes, i know I'm one too), have actually read it and are just hopping onto the knee-jerk-reaction-to-bull-I-read-about-a-thread-on-H&H-on-Faceache bandwagon.
		
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Completely agree. They only came along as HHO was mentioned in a status. I bet a few of them end up staying..


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## Jim Moriarty (11 November 2013)

helenandbessie said:



			OMFG! I will stick to Facebook at least its not like this! this is why I haven't been on for a couple of years everyone has their own opinions (which is fair enough) but wont allow other people to air their thoughts as you 'gang' up on them!
		
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Sorry if you feel my asking you to show where these threats are on here to be ganging up on you, but you threw the mud, time to back up the accusation.


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## CrazyCobLady (11 November 2013)

helenandbessie said:



			OMFG! I will stick to Facebook at least its not like this! this is why I haven't been on for a couple of years everyone has their own opinions (which is fair enough) but wont allow other people to air their thoughts as you 'gang' up on them!
		
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I'm guessing this comment is aimed at me. Listen, love. You can come on here and post whatever you like, the chances are we will never meet each other and so your comments are meaningless to me. We have no issue with you staying around and voicing your opinions - That's what forums are for. Just don't be rude about it as that's where people start ganging up on you!


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## WelshD (11 November 2013)

CrazyCobLady said:



			I'm guessing this comment is aimed at me. Listen, love. You can come on here and post whatever you like, the chances are we will never meet each other and so your comments are meaningless to me. We have no issue with you staying around and voicing your opinions - That's what forums are for. Just don't be rude about it as that's where people start ganging up on you!
		
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I think I love you


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## Kallibear (11 November 2013)

One final point is this, those that gave their money to C N G may be thought of as mugs' by others on this forum, and some have said they should donate to charity instead. My issue with these comments are as follows: Firstly, you assuming they don't give to charities when a lot of them have said they do, so as they saying goes 'you've made a *ass* out of *u* and *me*'. Secondly, how many of us fritter away £3 odd on a fancy latte, well if they wanted to instead give £3 to a stranger, well maybe that was the point, instead of frittering it away they liked the idea of helping a stranger out!
		
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The point is that most normal people feel that begging (and that is what this is) for something you don't need at all, a luxury,  is wrong. Now, if the girl had asked for money for food to eat, or essential medication or even to pay to care for a rescued horse she'd had dumped on her without a choice,  most would have happily given a 'coffee's worth' to her. 

This gir doesn't have a 'problem'. No emergency or disaster or sheer horrific luck has befallen her. All that's happened is she's fallen in love with a horse she can't afford. And basically everyone sensible is thinking ' That's sad, I remember my beloved Sooty/Dusty/Ginger at the RS school that my parents just wouldn't buy for me. I cried for weeks. Then I grow up. So diddums and get over it'. 

Theres are sooooo many deserving charties that actually NEED to money. Whether this begging would take away from them is rather beside the point but for this girl to ask (beg) along side them like she has a similar need is just plain wrong. 

For the foolish who gave 'just a fiver' then maybe you'd have been better or giving to ahorse like this. One like this who actually NEEDS the money


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## CrazyCobLady (11 November 2013)

WelshD said:



			I think I love you
		
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Oh faaabulous darlin'


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## MadBlackLab (11 November 2013)

Dogrose said:



			I've dreamed all my life of having a horse but never had any money, at nearly 50 maybe it is time to forget my horsey dreams, unless I can get other people to pay for them! Why not? You wouldn't all want to see me sad would you? 
I learned a long time ago, with any animal, the buying price is not the biggest expense. If you can't afford to buy a horse, who pays if it gets ill or injured? Another Face Book charity drive? 
 Why should strangers buy a horse for a girl who already has horses when there are thousands of girls who spend their lives dreaming of ponies but can't even get near a horse?
I'm sure if you work with horses you will always come across the occasional one that you bond with. You can't buy them all.
And what is with the whole jealousy thing? As soon as someone has a differing viewpoint the jealousy card gets pulled, most of the people on this board, I'm sure, have nice horses of their own and aren't the slightest bit jealous.
		
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I agree with this completely.

I have fallen badly for 2 horses in my whole life. 1 who ended up in not a good home and don't know what happened too and one that I still see and ride and involved with just as much as I had in the past but I've still managed to live.

And I don't have a horse but I'm not jealous I'm just think its immoral to ask strangers to donate money to feed a habit. You wouldn't give money to a drug addict or an alcoholic no matter how desperate they were


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## henmother (11 November 2013)

We aren't vile creatures!


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## CrazyCobLady (11 November 2013)

henmother said:



			We aren't vile creatures! 

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Rise above it !


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## Grinchmass (11 November 2013)

henmother said:



			We aren't vile creatures! 

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Not as vile than the people coming here to scream, shout and throw insult after insult because we don't agree with their views instead of having a rational discussion.


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## ester (11 November 2013)

helenandbessie said:



			OMFG! I will stick to Facebook at least its not like this! this is why I haven't been on for a couple of years everyone has their own opinions (which is fair enough) but wont allow other people to air their thoughts as you 'gang' up on them!
		
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It's usually how they air their thoughts not what they are which riles.....


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## Queenbee (11 November 2013)

helenandbessie said:



			my point is jumping on people ... like you have just done to me. 

I really don't think you get the gist of the whole thing! the girl wanted THIS horse not just any horse or even another horse, as they fell in love with each other. I assume you are a horse owner so should know how this feels when you are young. 
just because a girl wants a dream to come true doesn't mean she doesn't have common sense! she has enough to support the horse, but hadn't saved to buy one as she wasn't planning to. CNG cant let her loan the horse or have instalments as it is a business, their sales from their horses buy in others and pay their upkeep and wages! 

no point being harsh about a young girls dream and completely trashing it! and starting up a thread about the whole thing just to get others to jump on the slagging off bandwagon is beyond me! 

the poor girl has had people threaten her and CNG is totally crazy! if you didn't find it a good cause don't look an move on!
		
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"This girl wanted THIS horse" - sounds brattish when you put it that way.  If you can't afford to buy a horse, why on earth get out the begging bowl and have other people fund the purchase?  If she can't get a loan to purchase, if she can't pay in instalments and if she can't afford to purchase the horse herself, then that's what we call tough titties.

When you can't afford a horse (in terms of purchasing it, you don't and someone else does, it's that simple. It isn't as if she doesn't have horses already, and if she really wanted that horse, she should sell her other horses to foot the bill.

It's disgusting behaviour, but that's just my opinion.


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## Jim Moriarty (11 November 2013)

Jim Moriarty said:



			Sorry if you feel my asking you to show where these threats are on here to be ganging up on you, but you threw the mud, time to back up the accusation.
		
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Shall we take your silence on this issue as "I'm sorry, my sincere apologies, there appear to be no threats to the groom in question on this thread/H&H".

That's OK, glad we've sorted that out.

Time to go and get dressed for dinner.


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## henmother (11 November 2013)

Thanks CrazyCobLady.


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## Amymay (11 November 2013)

helenandbessie said:



			OMFG! I will stick to Facebook at least its not like this! this is why I haven't been on for a couple of years everyone has their own opinions (which is fair enough) but wont allow other people to air their thoughts as you 'gang' up on them!
		
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Actually quite a few posters on here have disagreed with the majority.  The difference between those posters and you is that their 'arguments' are measured. They haven't resorted to swearing and have debated the topic.

You on the other hand have become ever more hysterical in your responses - which give them no validation at all. You simply come across as a rather petulant schoolgirl.

Love it or hate it hho has a reputation for plain speaking, hot debate and intelligent argument.  Nothing like fb.


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## hairycob (11 November 2013)

Black tie I hope. Don't want to let standards slip old bean


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## Amymay (11 November 2013)

I'm joining the kallibear appreciation society. 

Beautiful last post!


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## MadBlackLab (11 November 2013)

Jim Moriarty said:



			Shall we take your silence on this issue as "I'm sorry, my sincere apologies, there appear to be no threats to the groom in question on this thread/H&H".

That's OK, glad we've sorted that out.

Time to go and get dressed for dinner.
		
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Sorry seems to be the hardest word


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## laura_v (11 November 2013)

Kallibear said:



			The point is that most normal people feel that begging (and that is what this is) for something you don't need at all, a luxury,  is wrong. Now, if the girl had asked for money for food to eat, or essential medication or even to pay to care for a rescued horse she'd had dumped on her without a choice,  most would have happily given a 'coffee's worth' to her. 

This gir doesn't have a 'problem'. No emergency or disaster or sheer horrific luck has befallen her. All that's happened is she's fallen in love with a horse she can't afford. And basically everyone sensible is thinking ' That's sad, I remember my beloved Sooty/Dusty/Ginger at the RS school that my parents just wouldn't buy for me. I cried for weeks. Then I grow up. So diddums and get over it'. 

Theres are sooooo many deserving charties that actually NEED to money. Whether this begging would take away from them is rather beside the point but for this girl to ask (beg) along side them like she has a similar need is just plain wrong. 

For the foolish who gave 'just a fiver' then maybe you'd have been better or giving to ahorse like this. One like this who actually NEEDS the money







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I'm glad there are people like you supporting charities, but I doubt at all money was taken away from charities in this case. People were donating because of the personal story of the girl, and if it pleased them helping a stranger than that latte would have, then fair play to them.

What I disagree with is this 'policing' of what causes constituent being acceptable and what don't. Some would argue the RSPCA shouldn't be donated to due to their anti-hunting stance or the way they are taking more cases to court and not so much money is invested into abandoned animals. Blimey if we properly debated it we could spend days arguing what charities are actually charity. Which ones are more important than others? We could argue a charity for an art gallery renovation is less of a cause than one for animal welfare? Or that animal welfare charities are less of a cause than human cancer charities? 

Playing devils advocate here, if we were to take the Romanian government's stance (look at their new dog legislation) all those helpless abandoned animals would simply be out down, problem solved... Or is it? 

At the end of the day the people who have donated have got something for their money - a good feeling! Now on here those people have been called 'stupid', 'fools' and 'mugs' but I wish I could get that feeling for as little a price. 

Finally as to begging for luxuries I think I need to tell my partners kids to stop doing it for the things get want, as on here they would be classed as being immoral and shameless (according to some)... Boy have those poor kids got a lot to learn then...in saying next time I 'beg a cup of tea' I shall refrain in case I too am being shameless!


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## Kallibear (11 November 2013)

laura_v said:



			I'm glad there are people like you supporting charities, but I doubt at all money was taken away from charities in this case. People were donating because of the personal story of the girl, and if it pleased them helping a stranger than that latte would have, then fair play to them.
		
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As I said, it's may or may not have taken money away from a real charity but that's not the point.  It's the fact she's out there begging for something she most definitely doesn't 'need' in any shape or form, she just wants, alongside the genuinely needy, as if her need is similar. It is, in many people's opinion,  distasteful. 





			What I disagree with is this 'policing' of what causes constituent being acceptable and what don't. Some would argue the RSPCA shouldn't be donated to due to their anti-hunting stance or the way they are taking more cases to court and not so much money is invested into abandoned animals. Blimey if we properly debated it we could spend days arguing what charities are actually charity. Which ones are more important than others? We could argue a charity for an art gallery renovation is less of a cause than one for animal welfare? Or that animal welfare charities are less of a cause than human cancer charities?
		
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You're absolutely right,  you'll never got everyone (or even a majority! ) to agree on which charity is more important than another but you WILL get a majority agreeing that a charity should be something that benefits many and/or has a genuine need. This begging doesn't even come close to that 





			Playing devils advocate here, if we were to take the Romanian government's stance (look at their new dog legislation) all those helpless abandoned animals would simply be out down, problem solved... Or is it?
		
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That would be an interesting debate but not even remotely related the the current:  is begging for something entirely selfish moral? 




			Finally as to begging for luxuries I think I need to tell my partners kids to stop doing it for the things get want, as on here they would be classed as being immoral and shameless (according to some)... Boy have those poor kids got a lot to learn then...in saying next time I 'beg a cup of tea' I shall refrain in case I too am being shameless!
		
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You've rather twisted the point. Of course kids will beg their parents, family and friends for something they desperately want. It's part of growing up and something most people grow out of as they learn you need to WORK for what you want but can't afford. But I'd most certainly hope you'd be the first to give them a metaphorical clip round the ear is they were found begging strangers in the street (or online)  for something frivolous!


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## Arizahn (11 November 2013)

The coffee shop is called California Coffee  It is expensive, but very nice. Or you can do what I do, and add a selection of diced chocolate to the mug prior to pouring in the hot coffee 

As you were.


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## The wife (11 November 2013)

amymay said:



			Actually quite a few posters on here have disagreed with the majority.  The difference between those posters and you is that their 'arguments' are measured. They haven't resorted to swearing and have debated the topic.

You on the other hand have become ever more hysterical in your responses - which give them no validation at all. You simply come across as a rather petulant schoolgirl.

Love it or hate it hho has a reputation for plain speaking, hot debate and intelligent argument.  Nothing like fb.
		
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This entirely, nearly put the same but had to pop put and do evening stables.  Every view and opinion is completely valid so long as It is done in a sensible way without dropping to being personal about things and that is what a few have done here, meaning that anything that you have to say is all but meaningless.  

Those that moan about being 'bullied' on this thread are only getting back what they initially threw.  People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.


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## Anglebracket (11 November 2013)

laura_v said:



			What I disagree with is this 'policing' of what causes constituent being acceptable and what don't. Some would argue the RSPCA shouldn't be donated to due to their anti-hunting stance or the way they are taking more cases to court and not so much money is invested into abandoned animals. Blimey if we properly debated it we could spend days arguing what charities are actually charity. Which ones are more important than others? We could argue a charity for an art gallery renovation is less of a cause than one for animal welfare? Or that animal welfare charities are less of a cause than human cancer charities? 

Playing devils advocate here, if we were to take the Romanian government's stance (look at their new dog legislation) all those helpless abandoned animals would simply be out down, problem solved... Or is it? 

At the end of the day the people who have donated have got something for their money - a good feeling! Now on here those people have been called 'stupid', 'fools' and 'mugs' but I wish I could get that feeling for as little as that.
		
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You raise an interesting point. The "there are worthier causes" argument is somewhat  futile. Firstly, it is difficult to decide on the most worthy cause as you state. Secondly, when should the "there are worthier causes argument apply"? When buying a diamante browband, a new pair of shoes, an expensive coffee? Most people spend their money on stuff they don't need. Giving money to the groom falls into the same "frivolous / impulse spend" category.


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## DragonSlayer (11 November 2013)

WelshD said:



			I think I love you
		
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I am very much like CCL she says....

~smiles proudly!~


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## Kallibear (11 November 2013)

Anglebracket said:



			, when should the "there are worthier causes argument apply"? When buying a diamante browband, a new pair of shoes, an expensive coffee? Most people spend their money on stuff they don't need. Giving money to the groom falls into the same "frivolous / impulse spend" category.
		
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Asking strangers to spend THEIR money on something frivolous for YOU, whilst making it sound like it's a 'need' is, _ in most people's opinion _, wrong.  THAT was the original question of the whole thread and turns out to be the general consensus.  Except those who dislike that opinion are busy calling those who have expressed it bullies.


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## DragonSlayer (11 November 2013)

amymay said:



			I'm joining the kallibear appreciation society. 

Beautiful last post!
		
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Kallibear is bloomin' brill!


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## jhoward (11 November 2013)

Jim Moriarty said:



			Shall we take your silence on this issue as "I'm sorry, my sincere apologies, there appear to be no threats to the groom in question on this thread/H&H".

That's OK, glad we've sorted that out.

Time to go and get dressed for dinner.
		
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blinking hell who resussed you lol


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## MadBlackLab (11 November 2013)

Kallibear said:



			Asking strangers to spend THEIR money on something frivolous for YOU, whilst making it sound like it's a 'need' is, _ in most people's opinion _, wrong.  THAT was the original question of the whole thread and turns out to be the general consensus.  Except those who dislike that opinion are busy calling those who have expressed it bullies.
		
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Another brilliant post Kallibear


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## Anglebracket (11 November 2013)

Kallibear said:



			Asking strangers to spend THEIR money on something frivolous for YOU, whilst making it sound like it's a 'need' is, _ in most people's opinion _, wrong.  THAT was the original question of the whole thread and turns out to be the general consensus.  Except those who dislike that opinion are busy calling those who have expressed it bullies.
		
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People have raised the argument that the money should have been spend on  charity instead of giving it to the groom. I don't think this is a good argument an have explained why. Not quite sure why you are quoting me in your post because you seem to be talking about a different issue than me. I have not called anyone a bully either.


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## *hic* (11 November 2013)

Jim Moriarty said:



			Shall we take your silence on this issue as "I'm sorry, my sincere apologies, there appear to be no threats to the groom in question on this thread/H&H".

That's OK, glad we've sorted that out.

Time to go and get dressed for dinner.
		
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I'm currently imagining that you have changed out of your day clothes into evening dress, the alternative calls for mind bleach and I'm fresh out of that!


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## Pidgeon (11 November 2013)

Such a shame non of the supporters of this can be bothered to have a civilised discussion about this. 
As stated before and possibly missed by the supporters, they do not have all the facts as anything remotely contentious gets deleted from the facebook page so they are not getting the full story. In fact if you read the comments on their facebook page it is quite sad to see how biased and nasty the supporters are. Are we not entitled to our opinions?
I for one grew up not having horses but had to have riding lessons and there were many a horse I wanted, one or two I truly bonded with but we could not afford to buy and keep a horse then. I just accepted that was the way it was and made the most of what I did have. Unfortunately we appear to be coming a society where its all I want want want. Well sorry to be a party pooper we can't always get what we want, its called life and the sooner you accept that the better. 
Anyway kettle is on, can't offer any nice coffee but can do a mean hot chocolate


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## doriangrey (11 November 2013)

jemima*askin said:



			I'm currently imagining that you have changed out of your day clothes into evening dress, the alternative calls for mind bleach and I'm fresh out of that!
		
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Lol - same thought as me, been typing in the nip!!


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## Arizahn (11 November 2013)

Will there be mini marshmallows in the hot chocolate please?


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## Spilletta (11 November 2013)

I have been lurking on HHO for a while now, but never quite got around to registering.  I can&#8217;t believe I&#8217;ve actually gone for it now!  (Hello!)

Initially, I thought this thread was a balanced and sensible discussion, but was quite shocked at the bile, venom and bad language towards those who consider the donation idea wasn&#8217;t a good one.

I don&#8217;t think HHO&#8217;ers can be considered a bunch of jealous haters.  Things might not always run smoothly, and there will be upsets and misunderstandings, but to call HHO&#8217;ers vile creatures?  These are the same people I&#8217;ve seen offer endless help, kindness and support to others.

Still can&#8217;t believe this thread has made me finally register.  Hope I don&#8217;t appear to be barging in&#8230;


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## Pidgeon (11 November 2013)

Of course its just not the same without them, white and pink ones


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## Amymay (11 November 2013)

Hi Spilleta. Barge away :-D


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## Arizahn (11 November 2013)

Pidgeon said:



			Of course its just not the same without them, white and pink ones
		
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Am happy  Welcome to all the nice new posters!


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## Spilletta (11 November 2013)

Thank you Amymay, although I think I have scared myself now and will probably lurk away again for a little while (maybe!)


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## laura_v (11 November 2013)

Kallibear said:



			As I said, it's may or may not have taken money away from a real charity but that's not the point.  It's the fact she's out there begging for something she most definitely doesn't 'need' in any shape or form, she just wants, alongside the genuinely needy, as if her need is similar. It is, in many people's opinion,  distasteful. 

I disagree, that is not the point or the point I was making. My point is predominantly the classification that people have used on here to define those that have donated money as being 'stupid', 'mugs' and 'fools'. What I have been saying and am maintaining now, is irrelevant of whether you think the groom to be wanting something 'luxurious' (whether horses and mucking out their excretion is luxurious is also debatable!), is the fact that the people who gave their money have got a 'product' for that money. 'The feeling of helping a stranger', as many of them have quoted. So they have something for their money and so in that way how are they 'stupid'? They are probably feeling better dong that than I was after drinking my metaphorical latte! These people knew exactly what the money was for, it was hardly some email scam asking for £50 to process a claim from someone who couldn't even spell their name! 

Another issue is this 'begging' idea the definition of a beggar is: 

beg·gar  (bgr)
n.
1.  One who solicits alms for a living. - well she isn't making a living out of it
2.  An impoverished person; a pauper. - she's not quite that, I know grooms wages are low but I wouldn't class her as a pauper as I would be classifying some of my own friends as that
3.  Informal A man or a boy. - she is definitely not that
tr.v. beg·gared, beg·gar·ing, beg·gars 
1.  To make a beggar of; impoverish. 
2.  To exceed the limits, resources, or capabilities of: beauty that beggars description. - well I suppose what she has asked for may have 'beggared belief' so this is as close as we get!

So by the 'literal' definition she isn't really a beggar but by the interpretation of some of the people on here she is. So I will offer my opinion which is that I don't think she is a beggar even in the looser interpretation that is being thrust around so much on here, she never asked repeatedly for money, in fact she never asked for money outright at all (I know as I have followed the story from the beginning). It was actually the people who are friends with CnG's webpage that started to offer money and told the dealer to start a paypal account for them to contribute to. If anything it was the dealer that posted what the groom had apparently said and never came from the girl herself! 


You're absolutely right,  you'll never got everyone (or even a majority! ) to agree on which charity is more important than another but you WILL get a majority agreeing that a charity should be something that benefits many and/or has a genuine need. This begging doesn't even come close to that 

But that point is irrelevant this was never a charitable cause or sold as such, my point is we are trying to police what people should do with their money, and irrelevant of 'need' those that donated did so in a way that was to increase the 'wellbeing' of another (a stranger), wellbeing being defined as happiness, not physical. What you are saying is those people shouldn't do that and are wrong in doing so, they should instead give to a charity - which some have said they already do - in which case your saying they should donate more. To which I am pointing out the flaws in your argument, which are there will always be something 'more charitable' a better use of money, but where do we stop? 


That would be an interesting debate but not even remotely related the the current:  is begging for something entirely selfish moral? - Was this really the debate from some of the posts prior to this, this doesn't seem the case, there have been many other debates in this thread than this one, some of which slagging of the reputation of the dealer, if it was simply the question above then this thread wouldn't have 400+ posts a it would have finished ages ago... 



You've rather twisted the point. Of course kids will beg their parents, family and friends for something they desperately want. It's part of growing up and something most people grow out of as they learn you need to WORK for what you want but can't afford. But I'd most certainly hope you'd be the first to give them a metaphorical clip round the ear is they were found begging strangers in the street (or online)  for something frivolous!
		
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I've only 'twisted' as much as everyone else on here, people 'beg' in the context your using this phrase everyday! Our friends and family, even strangers outside a pub asking for a cigarette, in your context would all be beggars. I think to brand these people as immoral for expressing what they want is wrong, as I said earlier the groom never repeatedly asked or even directly asked for money from people.


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## diamonddogs (11 November 2013)

Once again we've had someone join the forum to label us jealous bullies.

Can I say again, I am NOT jealous. I have a beautiful horse that I love dearly - I like to think she loves me back, but the same affection would probably be given to anyone who brought the carrots. OK, I only managed to buy her because of an insurance payout from the death of her predecessor, who was bought using hard earned cash, saved for over months.

Yes, her predecessor died suddenly, despite the best attentions of the vet, and it broke my heart. THAT is the meaning of heartbreaking, not being unable to afford to buy a dream


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## Echo Bravo (11 November 2013)

Am not surprised that the supporters of this girl on FB turn nasty, who many times have we seen this before, they come and then disappear. Are we as a forum, jealous of this young girl, well no, are we viscous (have I spelt that right?) or nasty, that depends peoples interpretation on said words. For myself if I do have any spare cash, which isn't very often, I give to SPANA or WHW and must admit I've never had hot chocolate with marshmellows.


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## laura_v (11 November 2013)

Don't despair  - I'm having quite a good debate with Kallibear that isn't resorting to name calling....  rather enjoying the debate if you can see pass the slagging matches that are going on! But I agree a lot of posts aren't very sensible, but there are some good ones! 

This post is for @Spilleta 

Sorry it didn't work well I don't get the reply function on my laptop compared with my phone lol


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## laura_v (11 November 2013)

Totally agree with you! Love your post.... this is @Bluevision


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## Kallibear (11 November 2013)

laura_v said:



			Don't despair  - I'm having quite a good debate with Kallibear that isn't resorting to name calling....  rather enjoying the debate if you can see pass the slagging matches that are going on! But I agree a lot of posts aren't very sensible, but there are some good ones!
		
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I'm trying to but the quoting is becoming a nightmare on a mobile! Off to dig out a laptop. I can start name calling if people feel we're being too civilised and bringing the tone up?


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## laura_v (11 November 2013)

Kallibear said:



			Asking strangers to spend THEIR money on something frivolous for YOU, whilst making it sound like it's a 'need' is, _ in most people's opinion _, wrong.  THAT was the original question of the whole thread and turns out to be the general consensus.  Except those who dislike that opinion are busy calling those who have expressed it bullies.
		
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But the girl in question didn't ask directly at any point it was started as a 'ah ** just said this how sweet' to which other folk replied yes do it, start a paypal pages we will donate. Nowhere either did the groom say she 'needed' the horse, like she needs food or a house. She said she loved the horse and it would be a dream come true if she could be with her without her getting sold on, that is all. If she had phrased it as above 'that she needed her' no-one would have given as it would have sounded like a spoilt brat lol


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## Echo Bravo (11 November 2013)

We so love you Kallibear.


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## laura_v (11 November 2013)

Kallibear said:



			I'm trying to but the quoting is becoming a nightmare on a mobile! Off to dig out a laptop. I can start name calling if people feel we're being too civilised and bringing the tone up?
		
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That proper made me laugh! I think we are being too civilised when I look at some of the other posts. Hopefully we will be setting a good example that you can disagree on points without getting nasty about it!


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## Azabache (11 November 2013)

I desperately wanted a horse from a very early age. I came up with all sorts of strategies as to how I could earn some money so that I could have one. Would 2 paper rounds, washing the neighbours cars and selling unwanted toys be enough? My parents possibly could have afforded one, but pointed out that the family would have to go without other things and would it be fair on my brother, - why should I have an expensive hobby and he not have a similar amount spent on him.  So I had to think longer term - study hard, go to uni so that in turn I could get a good job which would pay enough to afford a horse. I realised that in the meantime I could use the time to find out how to look after horses properly, so got myself a job at a little yard. My wage was £2 for a whole day (25 years ago  ) but I loved it as I got to spend time with horses and I was learning, so that when I finally got my own I'd know what to do. There were times at uni that I wanted to quit, but the thought of having my own horse spurred me on to stick it out. I finally got my degree and then a half decent job, so then started saving furiously not just for the horse but the tack, rugs, etc etc. I figured too that I could find out just how much disposable cash I could scrimp together each month and would it be enough to afford the monthly costs of owning a horse. After 6 months I'd saved enough and having done my sums a hundred times thought that I could just about afford one. 
At the yard I worked at, there was a pony that I absolutely adored and we did have a bond. When I'd come back during uni holidays, he would let out a shrill whinny and come galloping across the field to see me.  The owners knew I adored him and the kids had all outgrown him, so as I'm a short ar*e they asked if I would like to buy him, which of course I jumped at the opportunity. Dreams can come true!

Not quite sure why I shared my life story but it somehow seems in a small way relevant to this thread. I heard a great quote once - "luck is when preparation and opportunity meet". 

I do agree with the viewpoint that if you can't afford the purchase, then can one really afford to keep a horse. If I lost my boy today, I certainly wouldn't have the money to hand to buy another horse. However I would save up the money each month from no longer having to pay for a horse's up keep, so that in 6 months or however long, I had enough to buy a horse.


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## Pidgeon (11 November 2013)

You've never lived unless you've popped marshmallows on top of hot chocolate, try it its lush......


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## Echo Bravo (11 November 2013)

Bluevision please don't let Laura v compliment go to you head, that you have to keep repeating what you have said.


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## Echo Bravo (11 November 2013)

Shopping tomorrow so chocolate and mini marshmellows on the list.


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## Queenbee (11 November 2013)

laura_v said:



			But the girl in question didn't ask directly at any point it was started as a 'ah ** just said this how sweet' to which other folk replied yes do it, start a paypal pages we will donate. Nowhere either did the groom say she 'needed' the horse, like she needs food or a house. She said she loved the horse and it would be a dream come true if she could be with her without her getting sold on, that is all. If she had phrased it as above 'that she needed her' no-one would have given as it would have sounded like a spoilt brat lol
		
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But if she loved this horse and had bonded with it, why not raise the funds by selling one of her other horses?  If someone wants something, don't you think they should fund it themselves?


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## FinnishLapphund (11 November 2013)

helenandbessie said:



			I cannot believe you people on here! if anyone had read the facts instead of just jumping behind a computer giving your tuppence worth you would know about the story.  

This young girl has horses of her own and I believe at her own yard. I have had horses since a young age and I have never brought one my self as I couldn't afford to buy outright but can afford the upkeep! (Including insurance!!) does this make me a bad owner!!! NO it bloody doesn't!! my horses have never been without! EVER! 

this poor girl wanted THAT horse not just another horse! that horse had fell in love with her like she had with it. also on a grooms wage you cant really afford a big outright payment. (I've been there!)

no one made any one donate it was just an 'idea' they were joking around about originally and then thought they'd give it a go! 
CNG cannot give the girl the horse as at the end of the day they are a business so do need the money for the business.

I cannot believe the THREATs they have received from jealous people. if you didn't like the idea don't follow or donate! 

Congratulations to all you pathetic people this poor girl and poor horse now will end up with their hearts broken!
		
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Carrots&Mints said:



			My thoughts exactly! I couldn't afford to buy my horse but I came into some money and luckily I has enough cash! But if I didn't that doesn't mean I can't afford the up keep of a horse! 

Damn right disgusting you lot treating a young girl like you have done you should ALL be ashamed of yourselves!!!!!! Instead of being negative you should support her!

Vile creatures
		
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That is your thoughts exactly? Hm, it is not exactly how I interpreted your second reply on this thread. 



Carrots&Mints said:



			Ive seen a nice oakley supremacy... come on guys a few quid isnt gonna hurt your pocket!!!!
		
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But on the other hand, I also don't understand why someone first says that they can't believe us people *on here*, that we should find out the facts before voicing our opinion etc. Ending the reply with congratulating all us pathetic people, only to a few replies later say that 



helenandbessie said:



			my initial post was about every one in general that was hounding the poor girl & CNG and throwing threats around not you personally...
		
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helenandbessie said:



			Christ! I hadn't said that you guys wasn't entitled to your opinion nor did I say that the horse would be heartbroken NOR did I say any of you personally was nasty! ...
		
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So you bundle all of us together, and aim your reply to all of us on here, but we're not supposed to take that personal. 






 To me, that seems as clear as mud.


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## Pidgeon (11 November 2013)

goodoh. can recommend Aero hot chocolate yum yum


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## doriangrey (11 November 2013)

Azabache said:



			I desperately wanted a horse from a very early age. I came up with all sorts of strategies as to how I could earn some money so that I could have one. Would 2 paper rounds, washing the neighbours cars and selling unwanted toys be enough? My parents possibly could have afforded one, but pointed out that the family would have to go without other things and would it be fair on my brother, - why should I have an expensive hobby and he not have a similar amount spent on him.  So I had to think longer term - study hard, go to uni so that in turn I could get a good job which would pay enough to afford a horse. I realised that in the meantime I could use the time to find out how to look after horses properly, so got myself a job at a little yard. My wage was £2 for a whole day (25 years ago  ) but I loved it as I got to spend time with horses and I was learning, so that when I finally got my own I'd know what to do. There were times at uni that I wanted to quit, but the thought of having my own horse spurred me on to stick it out. I finally got my degree and then a half decent job, so then started saving furiously not just for the horse but the tack, rugs, etc etc. I figured too that I could find out just how much disposable cash I could scrimp together each month and would it be enough to afford the monthly costs of owning a horse. After 6 months I'd saved enough and having done my sums a hundred times thought that I could just about afford one. 
At the yard I worked at, there was a pony that I absolutely adored and we did have a bond. When I'd come back during uni holidays, he would let out a shrill whinny and come galloping across the field to see me.  The owners knew I adored him and the kids had all outgrown him, so as I'm a short ar*e they asked if I would like to buy him, which of course I jumped at the opportunity. Dreams can come true!

Not quite sure why I shared my life story but it somehow seems in a small way relevant to this thread. I heard a great quote once - "luck is when preparation and opportunity meet". 

I do agree with the viewpoint that if you can't afford the purchase, then can one really afford to keep a horse. If I lost my boy today, I certainly wouldn't have the money to hand to buy another horse. However I would save up the money each month from no longer having to pay for a horse's up keep, so that in 6 months or however long, I had enough to buy a horse.
		
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You've just typed exactly what I was trying to say!  My parents were not remotely horsey and I worked for practically nothing just to be around horses.  I worked all day at riding schools and point-to-point for nothing - not even for rides half the time.  I'd have been happy just have one of my own.  I was 27 before me and husband bought our own horses, I still feel lucky now to have our own land with our two (another 20 years down the line and different horses).  I don't think it is fair to call donators stupid, foolish, idiots - whatever, it's their money after all.  So sorry it's gone tits up but you are lucky Paiz, to have at least one horse imo.  Make the most of it, some people are losing their horses of a lifetime.  If she's that important to you, you'll find a way - maybe sponsorship would have been a better idea?


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## Echo Bravo (11 November 2013)

Oh dear I thought I was being humourous, just goes to show doesn't it.


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## laura_v (11 November 2013)

Queenbee said:



			But if she loved this horse and had bonded with it, why not raise the funds by selling one of her other horses?  If someone wants something, don't you think they should fund it themselves?
		
Click to expand...

Maybe she could sell one of her other horses (although it depends on if they are saleable and their age, and the circumstances) and she could investigate other means to fund the sale (although I'm sure I saw in one post on the FB page she had said she was going to see what she could raise herself before the whole thing got blown out of proportion and they stopped the page to donate too, and deleted most of the posts). So I don't disagree with what you have said, but also I believe if people wanted to give money to a stranger to help her buy a horse then they can too, and if she accepts well that's her choice, nothing bad in accepting help from strangers if the strangers are happy to oblige and it makes them feel good in doing so!


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## Kitei (11 November 2013)

Gonna be honest here, if I had the offer of people 'donating' to me getting a new horse, I'd have a lot of trouble saying no.  

But I honestly don't like the sound of this girl, and very much agree that, if she has other horses that she doesn't do anything with, she could surely sell those to purchase this 'dream' horse? As she works for a dealer, she should probably hope that this wont happen very often.


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## atouchwild (11 November 2013)

helenandbessie said:



			Congratulations to all you pathetic people this poor girl and poor horse now will end up with their hearts broken!
		
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Actually, I doubt the horse will have 'a broken heart', she probably wont care so long as she is well fed and cared for. The groom will certainly not be the only person capable of caring for the horse!

I don't have much to say that hasn't been said really, I think it is completely wrong and immoral what the girl and dealer have done, but then again, CnG have managed to get their name around. What concerns me a great deal is the people that seem to think vets fees need not be worried about because 'that's what insurance is for...' To have an affordable insurance plan for vets fees, death etc my excess was £500...and when my horse went suddenly very lame I had to find this £500 fairly quickly...

I certainly think she is in the wrong job...I have many horses come through our yard who I would love to own, then they move on and another comes along who I adore...then we get a barsteward or two and I wonder why I even bother with horses ;-)

This big mess is concerning but what is even more concerning is some people's attitudes towards horse care, and the way many very much put heart before head.


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## Maesfen (11 November 2013)

I haven't read any of the other replies (shoot me now) but when I first saw this on the CNG page that the groom wondered if some people (the page's friends which are over 500 of which I was one) would donate a pound each it would give her enough for the deposit and I thought 'what a bloody cheek' (I still do if I'm honest) and then I thought why couldn't she work it off herself if she wants the horse so badly and if she's such a good groom, why couldn't the dealer actually do her a deal and keep the horse until she has the money?  Let's face it, the one to gain here is the dealer who will be getting the money and if their page is anything to go by, they seem to be moving horses pretty regularly so not exactly hard done by themselves.  I watched it for a couple of days and the more that was donated you could almost feel them rubbing their hands and it felt unpleasant to watch so I opted out and haven't been back; it's not something I would want to be a part of I'm afraid.


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## Morgan123 (12 November 2013)

I'm on a long bus journey and this has been fantastic entertainment. As is the cng Facebook page, if you can put up with all the spelling errors (can't help it I'm a pedant, sorry), it will keep you going for hours! They want you discustin lot to go back in the whole you came from because cng are worth their wait in gold ;-). Direct quotes.

Looks like it's all over now anyway as they've been receiving threats, so the horse will be sold and they are giving the donated money back to people or to charity. It is a sad situation for the girl, I'm sure we've all lost horses we love one way or another, that's life I guess. Sadly. If it's true that people turned up at this girl's house threatening her, that is pretty bad though. Hopefully that's being exaggerated. 

The horse is actually pretty cheap (£2000 for reliable 10 yo hunter mare with perfect manners if you believe the advert), so surely if the dealer was so caring she'd simply let the girl pay off in instalments or something anyway.


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## Maesfen (12 November 2013)

Morgan123 said:



			so surely if the dealer was so caring she'd simply let the girl pay off in instalments or something anyway.
		
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That's it in a nutshell for me.

Still, it's got their name in lights on here even if it is for the wrong reasons!


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## henmother (12 November 2013)

I kind of don't get why the groom has been threatened? Threatened with what, over what exactly? this certainly doesn't warrant any threats as far as i can see? There are some aspects of this tale that don't seem to add up, dare I say it, ring true. Sitting (cant stand) to be corrected of course.
Ps- discusting, is that like discussing / interesting?


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## southerncomfort (12 November 2013)

Anglebracket said:



			You raise an interesting point. The "there are worthier causes" argument is somewhat  futile. Firstly, it is difficult to decide on the most worthy cause as you state. Secondly, when should the "there are worthier causes argument apply"? When buying a diamante browband, a new pair of shoes, an expensive coffee? Most people spend their money on stuff they don't need. Giving money to the groom falls into the same "frivolous / impulse spend" category.
		
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How about when over 10,000 people have died and millions of people have lost EVERYTHING in the Phillipines?  Makes begging for money to buy a horse seem more than a little frivolous to me.


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## Amymay (12 November 2013)

southerncomfort said:



			How about when over 10,000 people have died and millions of people have lost EVERYTHING in the Phillipines?  Makes begging for money to buy a horse seem more than a little frivolous to me.
		
Click to expand...

To be fair, that hadn't happened when this all first started.


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## Jim Moriarty (12 November 2013)

HandleyCross said:



			Sorry seems to be the hardest word
		
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Quite.


jhoward said:



			blinking hell who resussed you lol
		
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Difficult to avoid this thread with my wife getting rather excised about it and messaging my daughter at every turn. She even forgot to mix my Martini! 


jemima*askin said:



			I'm currently imagining that you have changed out of your day clothes into evening dress, the alternative calls for mind bleach and I'm fresh out of that!
		
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Haha. Yes, from casual to formal, dinner with the Chief Minister (and about 120 others so not as cosy at it sounds).


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## sunleychops (12 November 2013)

I'm not allowed to comment on this thread because when I do I get banned.


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## CrazyCobLady (12 November 2013)

Ruddy hell ! This thread is STILL going on!?


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## babymare (12 November 2013)

lol I think its ding ding round 2 - or is that round 3/4/5 crazycoblady


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## misterjinglejay (12 November 2013)

I haven't read right to the end of this thread yet - I'm getting there.

However what I don't understand is that surely CNG could use the horse as a loss leader, garner huge amounts of positive coverage, and reap the financial benefits. Yes, they are a business, but sometimes it pays to be generous.

Why, when people started to donate (where did they send the money? Is there a paypal account set up? And who set it up?), whether it was first mentioned in jest or not, did they not just ask for donations to stop?


How about going back to the loss leader idea, CNG let her ride the horse at comps and sponsor her? Thus, again, garnering publicity, and allowing a young girl to ride he dream horse?


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## Grinchmass (12 November 2013)

misterjay said:



			I haven't read right to the end of this thread yet - I'm getting there.

However what I don't understand is that surely CNG could use the horse as a loss leader, garner huge amounts of positive coverage, and reap the financial benefits. Yes, they are a business, but sometimes it pays to be generous.

Why, when people started to donate (where did they send the money? Is there a paypal account set up? And who set it up?), whether it was first mentioned in jest or not, did they not just ask for donations to stop?


How about going back to the loss leader idea, CNG let her ride the horse at comps and sponsor her? Thus, again, garnering publicity, and allowing a young girl to ride he dream horse?
		
Click to expand...

The dealers set up a PayPal account and posted the details on their Facebook with regular updates. 

The idea about the loss leader is probably the most sensible solution to this mess that I've seen. The dealers keep control of the said horse, they keep her at their yard under their supervision, the young groom works there anyway, so is there I'm assuming 5 days a week. The groom - seeing as she was going to pay for the upkeep of the horse anyway could take on the costs of the horses upkeep, so feed, shoes and insurance, and the livery could be seen as a job perk. The dealers make good out of an abysmal situation, she keeps, what they claim to be the best interests of said horse (I.e with the groom) at heart. Those who claim the groom is a negligent owner can't dispute the welfare interests if the horse is kept under the dealers watchful eye. And with the amount of horses they sell, the amount of people who must come and go from the hard, someone would notice a bright ginger horse looking like a welfare case. As let's be honest, the "supporters" won't be the ones buying the mare anyway, and it would shut them up about the girl and the horse being destined to be together, the girl gets a full loan horse, and gets to further her competition aspirations. The dealer gets the positive publicity, then if the girl is in a position to buy, she could save what she would be spending on livery if it means that much, she can do at a future date.


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## CrazyCobLady (12 November 2013)

babymare said:



			lol I think its ding ding round 2 - or is that round 3/4/5 crazycoblady 

Click to expand...

Haha! Page 48!!


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## misterjinglejay (12 November 2013)

Even with my settings it's run to 12 pages lol


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## The wife (12 November 2013)

This may be my 2nd or 3rd thread this year that may make the top 5.  I had my doubts around the page 12 mark as thought it would be taken down, thankfully everybody decided to play nice after the troublemakers went. . Not sure this is a good thing.


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## Arizahn (12 November 2013)

The wife said:



			This may be my 2nd or 3rd thread this year that may make the top 5.  I had my doubts around the page 12 mark as thought it would be taken down, thankfully everybody decided to play nice after the troublemakers went. . Not sure this is a good thing.
		
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<passes OP congratulatory jaffa cakes>

I think this thread speaks well of the forum in general


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## Equius (12 November 2013)

I just wanted to say a big hi. finally signed up as a member after reading all on this thread. Have read many a post on this forum before but never got round to becoming a member Untill now. I did have to laugh at some of the posts on here especially the bit about you all being vile nasty people etc I can't quiet remember if you were all branded Middle Aged women  to but it was along those lines. But I think most of all the funny banter between most of you on here is also another reason for me to sign up.


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## Arizahn (12 November 2013)

Equius said:



			I just wanted to say a big hi. finally signed up as a member after reading all on this thread. Have read many a post on this forum before but never got round to becoming a member Untill now. I did have to laugh at some of the posts on here especially the bit about you all being vile nasty people etc I can't quiet remember if you were all branded Middle Aged women  to but it was along those lines. But I think most of all the funny banter between most of you on here is also another reason for me to sign up.
		
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Mwa ha ha...sorry. Ahem. Welcome!


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## Grinchmass (12 November 2013)

Equius said:



			I just wanted to say a big hi. finally signed up as a member after reading all on this thread. Have read many a post on this forum before but never got round to becoming a member Untill now. I did have to laugh at some of the posts on here especially the bit about you all being vile nasty people etc I can't quiet remember if you were all branded Middle Aged women  to but it was along those lines. But I think most of all the funny banter between most of you on here is also another reason for me to sign up.
		
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I hope I'm not middle aged yet - I'd like to live past 50


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## CrazyCobLady (12 November 2013)

Equius said:



			I just wanted to say a big hi. finally signed up as a member after reading all on this thread. Have read many a post on this forum before but never got round to becoming a member Untill now. I did have to laugh at some of the posts on here especially the bit about you all being vile nasty people etc I can't quiet remember if you were all branded Middle Aged women  to but it was along those lines. But I think most of all the funny banter between most of you on here is also another reason for me to sign up.
		
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Hey! A few of us are young'uns


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## ExmoorHunter (12 November 2013)

I have followed this tread from start to finish. I must admit it's taken up more time than expected but it's been fascinating. I am surprised though that no-one has yet mentioned Baileys in coffee! Maybe I am now showing my age but porridge with a good topping of Baileys and cream on a winter's morning is the best.  The benefits of port have already been explored.

Now the controversy seems to be abating, I am looking forward to having more time to spend with my horses in the morning.

Loved the banter though, most enjoyable.


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## Echo Bravo (12 November 2013)

Baileys cream on porridge WHY has nobody ever told us before, still trying to get through my first hot Choccy with the mini marshmellows, they don't tell you they stick to your lips or am I doing something wrong.


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## Arizahn (12 November 2013)

Echo Bravo said:



			Baileys cream on porridge WHY has nobody ever told us before, still trying to get through my first hot Choccy with the mini marshmellows, they don't tell you they stick to your lips or am I doing something wrong. 

Click to expand...

Nope, they are meant to do that!


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## FionaM12 (12 November 2013)

Equius said:



			I just wanted to say a big hi. finally signed up as a member after reading all on this thread. Have read many a post on this forum before but never got round to becoming a member Untill now. I did have to laugh at some of the posts on here especially the bit about you all being vile nasty people etc I can't quiet remember if you were all branded Middle Aged women  to but it was along those lines. But I think most of all the funny banter between most of you on here is also another reason for me to sign up.
		
Click to expand...

I think you'll find it was "Middle aged witches"


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## Arizahn (12 November 2013)

FionaM12 said:



			I think you'll find it was "Middle aged witches" 

Click to expand...

I translated that as "experienced and wise, with useful skills, and lots of cats"...


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## Echo Bravo (12 November 2013)

No cats just plenty of dogs.


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## Tern (12 November 2013)

Arizahn said:



			I translated that as "experienced and wise, with useful skills, and lots of cats"...

Click to expand...

Ooh I agree, you like your cats don't you?


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## Grinchmass (12 November 2013)

Arizahn said:



			I translated that as "experienced and wise, with useful skills, and lots of cats"...

Click to expand...

Ha, the last bit rings true at least. I seem to have acquired a lost cat at the moment, she's almost all black too, trying to find her owners... Plus my own cat. I feel like Cheshire cat sanctuary...


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## Fii (12 November 2013)

FionaM12 said:



			I think you'll find it was "Middle aged witches" 

Click to expand...




Arizahn said:



			I translated that as "experienced and wise, with useful skills, and lots of cats"...

Click to expand...

.......And stays away  from bonfires!


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## Arizahn (12 November 2013)

Tern said:



			Ooh I agree, you like your cats don't you? 

Click to expand...

No, they just refuse to leave  They destroy anything remotely fancy and leave headless mice on the front door step. If I complain, they hiss at me. Please send help!


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## Grinchmass (12 November 2013)

Arizahn said:



			No, they just refuse to leave  They destroy anything remotely fancy and leave headless mice on the front door step. If I complain, they hiss at me. Please send help!
		
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This lost cat, comes in, demands milk and food, hisses at me, and still I let her in?!  I need my head seeing to, and need to find her owners she's scaring my cat, who is pretty much a kitty teddy bear


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## Adopter (12 November 2013)

Arizahn said:



			I translated that as "experienced and wise, with useful skills, and lots of cats"...

Click to expand...

I have two cats, but I am an old witch, and enjoy it!


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## Emilieu (13 November 2013)

Gentlegiant88 said:



			This lost cat, comes in, demands milk and food, hisses at me, and still I let her in?!  I need my head seeing to, and need to find her owners she's scaring my cat, who is pretty much a kitty teddy bear 

Click to expand...

I have one of these too, she's been here a year now. I think I might be hers :'( on the plus side my oen teddy cat is no longer afraid and seems to bonded with the holy terror. ..


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## Arizahn (13 November 2013)

This is how it starts! We have ended up with seven, only three of which were actually ours...the rest are a variety of dumped and unwanted sorts  One of which keeps trying to kill my husband by tripping him up and randomly clawing him, lol!

I think rehoming myself will be easier...anybody want a crazy cat lady, smells vaguely of horse and can't cook?


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## CrazyCobLady (13 November 2013)

Arizahn said:



			I think rehoming myself will be easier...anybody want a crazy cat lady, smells vaguely of horse and can't cook? 

Click to expand...

Bloody hell, You sound like me!


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## Arizahn (13 November 2013)

CrazyCobLady said:



			Bloody hell, You sound like me! 

Click to expand...

No wonder I am tired - I am leading a double life!


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## Kaida (13 November 2013)

50 pages...I need to change my setting s so it's only 12 on mine too! I did comment earlier on this and have been following it. I feel that some new posters haveen displaying exactly the behaviour they are accusing others of, which is a shame as it detracts from the original point, which was about the morality of asking for money to buy a horse.

However, many people have been polite and I think several have been patient and tolerant to a fault, given the unwarranted things said to them! Anyway, I said earlier that as the girl didn't directly ask for this, I don't see it as begging per se, but agree that the dealer should have known better and they or she should have morally declined the donations. 

I see now that they have said following all this they have discussed loaning options with her or buying in installments but she is now worried for the safety of her and the horse if this happened. I cannot see how this could possibly be attributed to this thread, as others have said, people going to her house must be a local issue from those who know her personally and therefore I would suggest following a different 'conversation' than this! 

It's a shame for all concerned that they didn't offer the loan/installments before the PayPal idea ever came up but hey, you live and learn! 

I too am a new poster - although I didn't join for this post, but as I have seen from reading this forum over the last couple of years that it is a large community of generally helpful, knowledgable and supportive people (cats optional) - I have moved recently and also have some questions about my latest equine, and joined in order to be able to ask these!

In other news - I have a coffee machine which also does amazing hot chocolate. I always have a pack of mini marshmallows in the house! In fact, may have one now...


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## *hic* (13 November 2013)

I find a good slug of squirty cream is usually appreciated on the hot choc, as well as a glug of Baileys or rum.


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## FinnishLapphund (13 November 2013)

Kaida said:



			50 pages...I need to change my setting s so it's only 12 on mine too! 

...

I too am a new poster - although I didn't join for this post, but as I have seen from reading this forum over the last couple of years that it is a large community of generally helpful, knowledgable and supportive people (cats optional) - I have moved recently and also have some questions about my latest equine, and joined in order to be able to ask these!    

...
		
Click to expand...







 You've managed to keep silent and only lurk for several years!? Wow! 

Anyhow, in case you use a computer to view the forum, and if you don't know where/how to change your page settings, click where it says Settings towards the top of the screen, click on General Settings, under Thread Display Options, where it says Number of Posts to Show Per Page:, change to Show 40 Posts Per Page, scroll down and click Save Changes. 


*mutters* Several years 
	
	
		
		
	


	




, she's lurked for several years... *stops muttering*


Oh, sorry, I nearly forgot, Welcome to the forum.


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## Kaida (13 November 2013)

Hehe well it was ad hoc learning! And I'm here now!


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## Kaida (13 November 2013)

Lurking...not learning! Although I learnt too...this is what happens when the husband talks to you while youre typing...

Oo thanks for the setting advice *changed*


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## Pidgeon (13 November 2013)

Another convert to hot chocolate with marshmallows, oopsie did I forget to say part of the fun is they stick to your lips when drinking it...............


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## Echo Bravo (13 November 2013)

Well someone forgot to tell me and my hubby was in stitches when he saw me drinking the hot choccy with the ruddy marshmellows.


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## Grinchmass (13 November 2013)

Arizahn said:



			This is how it starts! We have ended up with seven, only three of which were actually ours...the rest are a variety of dumped and unwanted sorts  One of which keeps trying to kill my husband by tripping him up and randomly clawing him, lol!

I think rehoming myself will be easier...anybody want a crazy cat lady, smells vaguely of horse and can't cook? 

Click to expand...


7... Don't say that or OH will be re-homing me instead of the waifs nd strays that turn up at our door... Seriously though, I live in a small house, desperately trying to find her owner, 2 animals cost enough to look after, they live the life of luxury, dreamies, scratching posts, carrots and new rugs, where I have bleach stained jodhpurs and go to work looking like a fancy dress haystack. Plus the cats don't have much room to escape each other, although I'm beginning to admit defeat and face the fact I'm going to be cat mediator for the forseeable until they can learn to get along - or at least treat each other with indifferent dislike. 

On the other hand OH who kicked up a holy fuss about me letting her stay the night when I found her on Saturday is getting quite attached. At least I know if I want another animal I can get it, weather the storm, and then witness him admitting defeat.


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## Arizahn (13 November 2013)

We have an actual rescue centre willing to take three of the extras once they have space  So not too bad. Sadly, extra number four is in the late stages of cancer, so we are just taking care of his final weeks along with the vet. Shame, as he has a lovely nature


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## Echo Bravo (13 November 2013)

Have had a b/w cat turn up several weeks ago at my stables, looked thin and his coat was brown on top, so after several days seeing him lurking, I started put cat food out for him that I had left from the stray polecat and it was Sheba, so he will eat the Sheba but not anything else, have tried and I don't like wasting my money and also likes milk, he's now a nice looking cat with a glossy black coat and a couple of lbs heavier, he now answers to Charlie. Cann't really have cats at home because of the 2 terriers.


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## Arizahn (13 November 2013)

Echo Bravo said:



			Have had a b/w cat turn up several weeks ago at my stables, looked thin and his coat was brown on top, so after several days seeing him lurking, I started put cat food out for him that I had left from the stray polecat and it was Sheba, so he will eat the Sheba but not anything else, have tried and I don't like wasting my money and also likes milk, he's now a nice looking cat with a glossy black coat and a couple of lbs heavier, he now answers to Charlie. Cann't really have cats at home because of the 2 terriers.
		
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No rodents at your stables, I should think


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## Echo Bravo (13 November 2013)

We have mice in the straw bales as I can smell them when I go get a bale and because of the cat I don't put poison down


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## Grinchmass (13 November 2013)

Arizahn said:



			No rodents at your stables, I should think 

Click to expand...

Pffft teach our stable cat this lesson, he thinks bunnies taste nicer... And doves when he can catch one!  The mice are quite happy scurrying about avoiding the traps and cat.


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## Spilletta (13 November 2013)

I can't believe this thread (the one that finally got me to register) is still going!  For the record, I'm middle-aged and have a black cat.  I don't think I have any witch's powers, although I always thought it would be handy to be able to fly a broomstick. 

I wasn't particularly bothered about hot chocolate, but I might have to investigate on that further as I do like marshmallows.


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## FinnishLapphund (13 November 2013)

Arizahn said:



			This is how it starts! We have ended up with seven, only three of which were actually ours...the rest are a variety of dumped and unwanted sorts  One of which keeps trying to kill my husband by tripping him up and randomly clawing him, lol!

I think rehoming myself will be easier...anybody want a crazy cat lady, smells vaguely of horse and can't cook? 

Click to expand...











Gentlegiant88 said:



			7... Don't say that or OH will be re-homing me instead of the waifs nd strays that turn up at our door... Seriously though, I live in a small house, desperately trying to find her owner, 2 animals cost enough to look after, they live the life of luxury, dreamies, scratching posts, carrots and new rugs, where I have bleach stained jodhpurs and go to work looking like a fancy dress haystack. Plus the cats don't have much room to escape each other, although I'm beginning to admit defeat and face the fact I'm going to be cat mediator for the forseeable until they can learn to get along - or at least treat each other with indifferent dislike. 

On the other hand OH who kicked up a holy fuss about me letting her stay the night when I found her on Saturday is getting quite attached. At least I know if I want another animal I can get it, weather the storm, and then witness him admitting defeat.
		
Click to expand...











			
				Arizahn said:
			
		


			We have an actual rescue centre willing to take three of the extras once they have space  So not too bad. Sadly, extra number four is in the late stages of cancer, so we are just taking care of his final weeks along with the vet. Shame, as he has a lovely nature 

Click to expand...

I'm sorry to hear about number four, but at least I'm sure you will do your best for making his last weeks as good as possible.


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## Ambers mum (13 November 2013)

Please can people donate me £50 each as I need stables for the two mares I own and their future companion...gotta be worth a try.......


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## Ambers mum (13 November 2013)

Oh...there were more than 20 replies before I got bored and did mine....crawling back under my bridge lol


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## Grinchmass (13 November 2013)

Spilletta said:



			I can't believe this thread (the one that finally got me to register) is still going!  For the record, I'm middle-aged and have a black cat.  I don't think I have any witch's powers, although I always thought it would be handy to be able to fly a broomstick.  

I wasn't particularly bothered about hot chocolate, but I might have to investigate on that further as I do like marshmallows.
		
Click to expand...

I have a black and white (think cow cat  ) and now it appears a spare black cat with a tiny white bib,  to be fair I think she heard about the thread and came a running. She looks like a good witches cat.


The marshmallow hot chocolate is great, not a fan of hot chocolate usually, but I am with marshmallows.... Can only have it at home tho... I lick the marshmallows and don't think I'd look like a right pig/weirdo outdoors 

ETA - the hotchocolate has to be the good stuff, made with hot milk, none of this "just add boiling water" rubbish!


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## Grinchmass (13 November 2013)

Arizahn, that is lovely of your looking after number for for his last moments


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## Arizahn (13 November 2013)

Thanks, he is a sweet heart compared to the others. My niece gave us a wall hanging with the "cats are like potato chips" motto on it! And assassin cat resembles my MILs cat an awful lot...


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## Camel (25 November 2013)

Deleted


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## daughter's groom (25 November 2013)

Friend's Russian Blue got out and was nabbed by a semi-feral moggie, resulting in a litter of 2 black and 2 blue kittens. We had one of the blues and he is now the most exquisitely beautiful 3-y-o cat with hardly a hint of his less elegant gene pool apparent in his looks. Now if only I could breed a beautiful horse so easily...........................


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## Grinchmass (25 November 2013)

daughter's groom said:



			Friend's Russian Blue got out and was nabbed by a semi-feral moggie, resulting in a litter of 2 black and 2 blue kittens. We had one of the blues and he is now the most exquisitely beautiful 3-y-o cat with hardly a hint of his less elegant gene pool apparent in his looks. Now if only I could breed a beautiful horse so easily...........................
		
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Would love to see a picture of your blue cat, have always wanted a blue  but have a cow cat and a stray black with a tiny bit of white who just keeps turning up.  I think she thinks she owns us. My cat hates all other cats so has been in a 3 week sulk... Playing cat mediator is not fun anymore. 

I may get a blue kitten at some point, so the pig cat can hopefully get used to it seeing as it will be a baby.

On a side note our stable cat is a posh grey. He thinks he's a scary beast though, but is a real big softie.


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## SatansLittleHelper (25 November 2013)

I have kittens 
They are 13 weeks...one is a longhaired ginger boy and the other is a longhaired tabby with white boy. Im kinda new to cats...Im a dog person  
Lets just say that so far its been an education......


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## daughter's groom (25 November 2013)

Compared to the trials and tribulations of horse ownership, cats are an absolute joy to own and so undemanding


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## SatansLittleHelper (25 November 2013)

Hmmm my brain hurts lol...horses, dogs, parrots, cats and pygmy hedgehogs...some days I question my sanity :rolleyes3:


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## Grinchmass (25 November 2013)

SatansLittleHelper said:



			I have kittens 
They are 13 weeks...one is a longhaired ginger boy and the other is a longhaired tabby with white boy. Im kinda new to cats...Im a dog person  
Lets just say that so far its been an education......
		
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Cats are great,  they look after themselves and you don't need to walk them if your tight on time. I want a dog, but our house isn't really big enough (I'd want a big dog, grew up with German shepherds).

Just mind any wicker furniture, it all turns into a giant cat scratching post. My washing basket is in tatters. She's very good with everything else though, doesn't attack the furniture or the carpets. 

Kittens occasionally use curtains as an assault course though


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## SatansLittleHelper (25 November 2013)

I have a Cocker Spaniel, a Standard Poodle and 2 Newfoundlands  No-one will ever convince me that cats are better than dogs lol


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## WelshD (25 November 2013)

Cats are awesome. Except mine, she is an ugly blue and white Peterbald cat with a heck of a scowl and the personality of a psychopath


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## Grinchmass (25 November 2013)

WelshD said:



			Cats are awesome. Except mine, she is an ugly blue and white Peterbald cat with a heck of a scowl and the personality of a psychopath
		
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Sounds like my mums cat, he's ironically named cuddles. Well I think it's ironic anyway, I think he should be called Satan.


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## WelshD (25 November 2013)

Lol. Thats ace! Might rename mine. She is currently called 'stop ripping up the bloody carpet'


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## Arizahn (25 November 2013)

daughter's groom said:



			Compared to the trials and tribulations of horse ownership, cats are an absolute joy to own and so undemanding
		
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My cats want to know why your cats are so nice to you...so do I! Where do you get these undemanding felines? And can I replace mine?

<dodges claws, hides anything breakable>


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## Grinchmass (26 November 2013)

WelshD said:



			Lol. Thats ace! Might rename mine. She is currently called 'stop ripping up the bloody carpet'
		
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To be honest I think it's his revenge for letting a youngish child choose his name, he's getting back at them for ruining his street cred, and getting back at them some more for ruining it further and keeping him as a house cat (live on busy road).

My cat is very not ironically named pig, originally it was a term of endearment, now she's really decided to really live up to her name, and is now like most women and on a pretty much permanent diet. 

Also Arizahn, my cats a rescue cat, she's always been the sweetest most gentle thing, I don't know how anyone could be cruel to her, she doesn't bite, scratch etc, not even when being pestered by small children, she's a cat in a million and I'll never manage to get another with her personality. Wish I could clone her


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## Arizahn (26 November 2013)

Mine are mean  Love them anyhow though...

We may have had a cat related scam thread on here, btw. Someone posted claiming to be from Chiltern Cats Protection League about rehoming feral cats to stables. Contact number does not match any of the numbers on the official website, so I would wonder if they were genuine? Or a scammer looking to find the addresses for yards/people's credit card details? 

Thread has been pulled now, but I am home with flu and therefore have time to check random things on the web!


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