# Andalucian, Lusitano & Lipizzaner Enquiry!



## Bright Eyes (17 February 2011)

There seems to be more and more Andalucians and Lusitanos around in Britain these days. I know they are commonly associated with classical dressage, but do any of the above 3 have a place in the highly competetive world of modern dressage?

Also are they generally very calm or very fizzy?

& when they say PRE Andalucian - what does PRE mean?

Many thanks


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## GinnieRedwings (17 February 2011)

PRE is Pura Raza Espanola (Pure Bred Spanish!) = Andalucian!

They normally don't fare so well against warbloods because their paces are higher and shorter, but some Spanish riders stick to them regardless. Sorry to be vague, can't think of any names off top of my head.

I also saw a GORGEOUS Lusso at the Stallion Showcase at Addington a few weeks ago. Maestro de la Gesse - lovely lovely horse. Will hold his own against the warmbloods, I predict!


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## TheMule (17 February 2011)

They vary a lot in temperament- some can be dead easy, some hot wires but generally they want to try for you- it'd be rare to find a bacwards thinking or nappy one (unlike warmbloods!)

Have a luso stallion competing advanced medium dressage and he holds his own, though the judging varies wildly. He's only just started competitive dressage and is schooling inter 1


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## Bright Eyes (17 February 2011)

I pretty much thought that was the case, but there seems to more and more about! 

Thanks - I finally know what PRE means!

Will look that stallion up though


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## alesea (17 February 2011)

I get the impression that competition-wise they'll struggle against the warmbloods at the lower levels as they're not as 'flashy', but will probably hold their own at the higher levels as they can demonstrate the wonderful collection that they're built for. (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong)

Also, Kyra Kyrklund was competing an Andalusian stallion (Rico) a year or two back. I don't know if she still has him?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW_M9dQa_Zo


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## Bennions Field (17 February 2011)

an andalusian is the name usually given to a horse from spain but  PRE means that the horse is registered as purebred and technically should also be graded.  details can be found on the BAPSH website (british andalusian webside)  

there was a PRE at the WEG dressage,  his name was Fuego, he was amazing and won the hearts of the crowd, think he came forth or fifth, link to video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVtZodFmcLU&feature=related  well worth a watch.  they do have higher leg action than the warmbloods but if i had a choice between my warmblood or my andy, i would have my andy any day -  far less stroppy and way more comfortable


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## templewood (18 February 2011)

Kyra's stallion is a Lusitano not an Andalusian. 
Fuego XII represented Spain at the 2008 Olympics and is currently 11th in the FEI/WBFSH World Ranking List Dressage Horses. 
In comparison to Warmbloods, their numbers are small, as a breed, but they are doing well at the higher levels of dressage, due to the fact that they find collected work very easy. The are also easy to train, as they are super intelligent. They will always try to do as you ask and are very tuned in to people. Some can be a bit spooky. Andalusians/PREs are generally considered not as 'hot' as Lusitanos.
They are light in your hand, very comfortable, sensitive and kind. 

Video about Fuego http://www.tribunalusitana.com


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## kyanya (18 February 2011)

How do the Spanish-bred PRE's cope with the UK seasons and weather? 

Are there many British-bred PRE's and Lusitano's about?


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## templewood (18 February 2011)

My Spanish bred PRE's aren't that keen on our weather, but the mares are OK living out with rugs on in a very sheltered field. They are fed haylage adlib and hard feed. My stallion is stabled at night. He hates the bad weather too!
There are quite a few British PRE breeders now. There is a list on the BAPSH website under Breeding. 
PRE's don't need mollycoddling like Thoroughbreds. They are tough horses and generally very good doers.


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## shirleyno2 (18 February 2011)

Amy Stovold rides Maestro de la Gesse, he did indeed look lovely both ridden and in the stable at SSGB.


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## dany (18 February 2011)

kyanya said:



			How do the Spanish-bred PRE's cope with the UK seasons and weather?
		
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Mines been here since November and isnt bothered by the weather at all, in fact he has half the rugs that the warembloods on the yard do and has been naked during the daytime for a couple of weeks now. 

Very different to a warmblood, I wouldnt have anything else now.


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## templewood (20 February 2011)

Just another useless piece of information!
The PRE as a breed was 7th in the FEI/WBFSH World Ranking List-Dressage Studbook 2010. The Lusitano was 8th, above the Trakehner (9th) and Swedish Warmblood (10th).

I expect they will climb further up the rankings as more and more compete!


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## Bennions Field (20 February 2011)

wow templewood thats a real surprise, though the spanish team themselves i think have gone back to using PRE's instead of WB's, we just need to encourage the judges to view them more favourably 

with regard to tollerance of the UK weather, i have 2 WB's and both have very very thick coats, and tend to get rugged up quite a bit in the cold weather to stop them loosing too much weight.  my PRE on the other hand, is in just a lightweight rug and has half the coat and tends to change it quicker and earlier.  she's pregnant but she's been the same since i brought her from spain as a 7 month old, she's 5 now, she copes well with both the heat and cold/wet and loves the snow   she's also a very good doer, needing half the amount of food, if anything i have to watch her weight. 

i know each horse is an individual, but i did quite a lot of research before i brought one, and my mare does seem to  be quite typical of the breed.


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## templewood (21 February 2011)

I think that judges are appreciating them a lot more now, especially at higher levels. The Cardenas stud, who own Fuego, are putting a lot of effort and money into promoting the PRE, but I doubt that they can match the marketing campaigns of the Dutch and German Warmbloods! Too many top riders are involved in breeding and selling them, so they are going to continue riding them, and never admit that another breed is better. It's all about money!
Just to add to my previous post:
SHB GB 28th
Irish Sport Horse 31st
Belgian Warmblood 14th


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## j1ffy (20 March 2011)

On the adaptability point, my PRE came over in late May last year.  He was out of work over the winter as I was working abroad, and I was shocked to come back in late January to a very hairy overgrown shetland!  He's been in a light or medium-weight rug all winter and been in very good condition throughout.

Another bonus is that he almost never rolls, he hasn't worked out what the fuss is about and can't possibly get all that mud in his mane


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## CRatola (21 April 2013)

Rico is a Lusitano stallion and not a PRE


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## maccachic (22 April 2013)

On his grassy ranch in the territory's heartland, 73-year-old Francisco Mesa breeds these "Pura Raza Espanola"  Pure Spanish Breed  horses with a passion that comes from years of pampering the elegant beasts known for their intelligence and affection for humans. He enters a muddy pen and is immediately surrounded by mares and foals who nuzzle him with tenderness, oblivious of their almost certain fate: the slaughterhouse. 

Barring an unlikely reprieve, Mesa's purebreds will be turned into horse meat for export come July. They are victims of a wrenching economic downturn that has wiped out fortunes, turned housing developments into ghost towns and left more than a quarter of the population out of work. 



Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/0...z2R93a3OgG


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## Herts05 (22 April 2013)

For more details of PREs - go on the BAPSH website. They also have a good FB group who are very helpful

There is also a Luso Society who can be contacted via their website


Maybe my PRE is the exception, but he can be very hot (but is also a brilliant hack)


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## Lgd (22 April 2013)

Andrew gould has been competing successfully on a PRE called Habanero

http://www.naomivancewebb.com/article.php/HABANEROXLI

My friend has a gorgeous 3yo she bought as a foal from Mill Park Andalusians. His temperament is so good she has left him entire and he runs out with her two geldings all year round.
He is Mill Cordobes on the 2010 crop of foals

http://www.millpark-andalusians.com/


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## RutlandH2O (23 April 2013)

maccachic said:



			On his grassy ranch in the territory's heartland, 73-year-old Francisco Mesa breeds these "Pura Raza Espanola"  Pure Spanish Breed  horses with a passion that comes from years of pampering the elegant beasts known for their intelligence and affection for humans. He enters a muddy pen and is immediately surrounded by mares and foals who nuzzle him with tenderness, oblivious of their almost certain fate: the slaughterhouse. 

Barring an unlikely reprieve, Mesa's purebreds will be turned into horse meat for export come July. They are victims of a wrenching economic downturn that has wiped out fortunes, turned housing developments into ghost towns and left more than a quarter of the population out of work. 



Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/0...z2R93a3OgG

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Your post is a direct quote from a news article appearing in the English speaking world's press last week. I posted about the situation in Spain and how anyone who might be interested in acquiring a PRE (raza translates as race) could make contact with with some of the breeders there.


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## Amazona (23 April 2013)

If you are interested in a PRE or Lusitano from their respective countries ..I know loads of breeders out there who have both competing at olympic level.
   They are happy to sell on horses that also are not quite making that grade.

    Re any that are competing at top level currently have a look at Rubi AR .. he was competing at the Olympics last year and has just return from a successful trip to Do-er

    PM me for details of breeders ( BTW ..they are just my friends ..I am not an agent)


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## Mearas (23 April 2013)

The Iberian breeds are not like the warmbloods and cannot be ridden in the same way. My trainer who spent 3 years full time with Nuno Oliveira is getting more and more telephone calls from people not coping with their Iberian horses. Iberian breeds are known as 'hotbloods' not 'warmbloods' They are highly intelligent and bred for dressage, they were the original dressage horses. Having said this they are wonderful to ride and I would highly recommend them.


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## SusannaF (24 April 2013)

Mearas said:



			The Iberian breeds are not like the warmbloods and cannot be ridden in the same way. My trainer who spent 3 years full time with Nuno Oliveira is getting more and more telephone calls from people not coping with their Iberian horses. Iberian breeds are known as 'hotbloods' not 'warmbloods' They are highly intelligent and bred for dressage, they were the original dressage horses. Having said this they are wonderful to ride and I would highly recommend them.
		
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I've had a couple of chances to ride Lusitanos at Pine Lodge and it was certainly a different experience. Beautifully trained, very responsive, but you could also pretty much feel 'em losing respect for you if you didn't get it right! I'm pretty hooked now 

Fuego wasn't the only Iberian at the Olympics, there was also this Luso. Never quite understand why they are considered "less powerful" or "less expressive".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFPyag3q0Fk


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## tristar (25 April 2013)

i have a pre cross stallion, he gets seriously annoyed with me if i don't ride him, very huffy, highly intelligent, willingness to work and native pony constitution, sums him up, he is not for the feinthearted, yet you could put your granny on him, they are horses of  unique opposite qualities and should only be taken on by people with dedication and knowledge.

riding a pre can change your life and riding.


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## carolineg (28 April 2013)

Has anyone got experience of crossing the warmbloods with the andalucians? My mare is tb/wb and is due to foal any day by the stallion Macadonio Mac (PRE Andalucian). I chose him as I wanted a little more bone, a little less height (she is 16.3 and Mac is 15.3) and hopefully his relaxed temperament as Mum is quite sharp. Mum was bred to 3 day event and is by Kings Composer but was not brave enough. She is incredibly beautiful and has been successfully shown as a Large Riding horse and side saddle. We are breeding a one off to keep forever that we hope to ride and drive as we also do Horse Driving Trials. Lots of Andalucian, Lusitano and Lipizzaners are used very successfully in driving trials where they definately hold their own against the warmbloods. I can't wait to see what our baby will look like!


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## tristar (30 April 2013)

pre's i find do not like to be pushed, a warmblood is often ridden with a heavier seat, at a fast more forward trot, this is the prevelant training system for competition dressage, i find pre's find their own balance if ridden with a lighter seat, not bearing down, within their own paces and when ready offer amazing differences within the pace, they are not reliant on forward momentum to work well being naturally well balanced, its like unlocking something  very gently  with a key.

yeguarda iberica, now in spain, has in the past crossed wb with pre

i think the difference between wb and pre is so great it must be difficult to compare the two in a competition, or takes a person of vast experience to evaluate the both at the same time


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## viola (30 April 2013)

carolineg said:



			Has anyone got experience of crossing the warmbloods with the andalucians? My mare is tb/wb and is due to foal any day by the stallion Macadonio Mac (PRE Andalucian). I chose him as I wanted a little more bone, a little less height (she is 16.3 and Mac is 15.3) and hopefully his relaxed temperament as Mum is quite sharp. Mum was bred to 3 day event and is by Kings Composer but was not brave enough. She is incredibly beautiful and has been successfully shown as a Large Riding horse and side saddle. We are breeding a one off to keep forever that we hope to ride and drive as we also do Horse Driving Trials. Lots of Andalucian, Lusitano and Lipizzaners are used very successfully in driving trials where they definately hold their own against the warmbloods. I can't wait to see what our baby will look like!

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It sounds like an interesting mix! I rode a TB/Lusitano mare when working in Portugal and loved  her  Very trainable, super temperament and with a natural desire to move forwards. Would be great to see photos of your foal! 

I also agree with the above that PRE and Lusitanos are the ultimate riding horses. They are just absolutely unique and in many ways different to any other breeds that descend from TB's.
I first rode a PRE for a client, then spent most of last year in Portugal training on Lusitanos and I am forever hooked on both breeds


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## maccachic (1 May 2013)

RutlandH2O said:



			Your post is a direct quote from a news article appearing in the English speaking world's press last week. I posted about the situation in Spain and how anyone who might be interested in acquiring a PRE (raza translates as race) could make contact with with some of the breeders there.
		
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Of course it is the link is at the bottom of the quote???  You haven't posted before this in this thread??  So Im not sure what you are accusing me of?


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