# My hound kicked: owner refuses to pay



## MissMoppett (2 June 2017)

12 days ago I was walking my two, sorry couple, of Basset Hounds on a public footpath in Somerset north of Sherborne - yes both on the lead - across a horse trainer's field. About a dozen horses were following and sniffing when one turned and kicked my 12 year old in the stomach just forward of the hind leg. If you've got to be kicked anywhere that's the best place for no bones were broken and while I bent down to help she understandably sank her teeth in my wrist. Fortunately the farmer's wife came and washed the blood off and my hound amazingly seemed to be able to finish the walk. However the vet found a nasty wound, she was considerably traumatised, cried for two days and was put on painkillers and antibiotics. I don't think anyone would be surprised that I sent the vet's bill for £107 to the owner fully expecting to be paid. By Return. Hearing nothing at all I rang him yesterday, to be told "I've rung the NFU and they say don't pay." Not once did he apologise or ask how my Matilda was. Whatever happened to decency and courtesy? Am I left with any alternative other than sue through the Small Claims Court?


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## SpringArising (2 June 2017)

TBH I'm not sure I'd pay either. Apologise profusely and be sorry yes, pay, no.


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## Cinnamontoast (2 June 2017)

Given my history, I wouldn't dream of walking my dogs through any kind of livestock and I don't believe an owner is liable for an injury if you choose to walk through a herd. I stopped catching in with my dog when 20 geldings surrounded me me started advancing. 

Why do you think the owner of the field should pay? Was it his horse? Do you know if he has public liability insurance? 

Hope your dog heals quickly and without complications.


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## Colivet (2 June 2017)

I am not familiar with whatever legal situation would apply as we tend not to have public footpaths crossing private land in Ireland as commonly as seems to be the case in the UK.  But I think that if I were the horse owner and the dog walker had every right to be there with their dogs under control, then I would feel morally obliged to pay the vet bill if my animals were the "guilty party".  Common decency would ensure that I would be concerned about the injured dog and at the very least enquire about its recovery.

That said, is there any obligation on the livestock owner to ensure that any animals kept in an area where there is public access are safe or does the walker use the public access at their own risk?


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## Moobli (2 June 2017)

Hmmm difficult one.  It might be worth speaking to the specialist dog lawyer, Trevor Cooper, to get his advice on this.

In the set of circumstances described by you, I would think the fairest option would be for the horse owner to pay half of the bill and that is what I would do if my horse injured an on-lead dog who had the right to be in the field with him.  

I hope Matilda makes a speedy and full recovery.


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## MyBoyChe (2 June 2017)

Im not 100% sure but I believe that the owner of the land has a duty of care to the public if they are on a public right of way and behaving correctly.  It might be worth speaking to your local council who should be able to clarify that fact, then decide what action you could take.  I had an incident a  few years ago where a mare and foal were turned out in a field with a bridleway through it, as I went to ride across said field the farmer came out and said "you must be mad to ride through there with a mare and foal in it"  I suggested he provided me with an option if he considered it dangerous,  which he did, through his farmyard.  I spoke to our local council who said that he would be liable if an accident occurred as a result of his livestock on a prow.


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## Kaylum (2 June 2017)

Do you have a witness? Did the farmers wife see what happened? The horse trainer will probably deny all knowledge. I would just pay it myself and accept these things happen


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## {97702} (2 June 2017)

What a strange first post on the forum.... no, I would not expect the land owner to pay, it may not be his horse which kicked!  Quite honestly I would pay the vets bill myself and be thankful that it did no serious damage


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## Chiffy (3 June 2017)

This is interesting. Many years ago, a friend of mine had her youngster at livery. At one point it was turned out in a field with a public footpath running through it. The youngster was cheeky and playful but fairly harmless. One day he started to follow a walker across the field and then attempted to pick him up by his rucksack! 
There was a dickens of a fuss, with threat of suing. I am afraid we all thought it quite funny but it must have been frightening for someone unhorsey. 
My friend was terrified of the consequences but it all settled down with the promise that the horse would not go in that field again.
I do believe that there is a law 'dangerous ' animals should not be in fields with footpaths.


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## JillA (3 June 2017)

I'm not sure what applies in a case like this but the general rule is unless there had been a  history of similar episodes, an animals owner cannot be held responsible - only if he knew it was a real possibility as it had happened before does he have a duty of care to ensure no-one is at risk.

If the dog was on lead, wasn't the horse close enough to you as handler for you to be able to shoo it away?


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## Tyssandi (3 June 2017)

If this is a legal footpath, then the land owner should put signs up saying that dog walkers need to understand that they do so at their peril and that their are free grazing horses and can act aggressively if they feel threatened.

That said dog walkers choose to run the risk as they would with cows, so really I would not expect the land owner to pay your bill, as previously said they may not be his horse, This might be a one off incident or the land owner may have put signs on before.   Were the horses close by when you started to cross the field?  I have crossed livestock fields and when on I have to walk the part I either deviate around them or change my route.


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## ycbm (3 June 2017)

Tyssandi said:



			If this is a legal footpath, then the land owner should put signs up saying that dog walkers need to understand that they do so at their peril and that their are free grazing horses and can act aggressively if they feel threatened.
		
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That would be an admission of liability.  Knowingly putting dangerous animals in a field on a footpath. You can't scare people off using footpaths with notices like that, either.


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## eatmyshorts (3 June 2017)

I'm afraid whether i have a right to walk on a footpath through livestock or not, i would never do it, just in case. From my own experience, it's not the done thing where i live, & i'm often surprised to hear it seems quite common in some places. In the event of an injury, i wouldn't expect the landowner to pay, & although an apology would be nice, it could be it was withheld as it may be seen as an admission of guilt. 

Hope your dog makes a good recovery x


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## Snuffles (3 June 2017)

Why has OP been greyed out ?


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## CorvusCorax (3 June 2017)

On holiday would indicate either asked for account to be deleted or been detected as having duplicate accounts on this forum.


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## Tyssandi (3 June 2017)

ycbm said:



			That would be an admission of liability.  Knowingly putting dangerous animals in a field on a footpath. You can't scare people off using footpaths with notices like that, either.
		
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No ...........It can also  be argued that you have pre warned people that they need to be careful around animals  and caution walking through the field  with livestock or horses and in the eventuality something happens, then the land owner can say  there is a sign warning dog walkers to keep their  dogs on a lead and give the  animals in the field a wide birth, otherwise you will get some stupid people walking through a the middle of   a groupe of horses   and wonder why they get chased or attacked.

People sue for all  kinds of things and warning signs on entrance to a field, regardless of the sign
 Dogs on lead
Don't feed the horses
 Keep to the footpath

Can prevent injury

Dog walkers can be their own worst enemies in many cases:

 They walk round the fields totaly off the actual path
They have picnics
Have their dogs off leads

 If I ever had a foot path along side my field or like our neighbours through the middle I would fence it off

 My old YO learnt this the hard way


 Large 20 acre feild - footpath along side (not fenced off) yard had no signs  coming over the style  gate.

 Dog walkers frequently walking round the whole of the field off the path,  groupe of dog walkers (12 of them)  dog owners totaly  not paying attention and dogs on  extention leads at full length, onwers gossiping and giggling.  Walked through the horses which were on both sides of the path.   One dog  on full length  went up behind  a 14hh pony.  One *POWWW*  dog through the air and stone dead when it hit the ground.   Yard owner told to put signs at both ends of her fields where path enters and leaves  telling the GP to keep alert and  be careful crossing the fieldand stick to the path.


Dog owner tried to sue but it did not amount to much but to YO suggested they put signs up


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## MiJodsR2BlinkinTite (4 June 2017)

Mmmmmm..... just a few observations from my own slant on this:

Firstly, this is a "PUBLIC" footpath. So, the (errhh) "public" have a right to be there, yes?? "Public" means just that, public, and so you could have literally anyone walking across that field, people with dogs, kiddies out with mummy, children going for a ramble etc etc. Sorry but if it was someone's kiddie who'd got kicked then I'm sure there'd be a Klu Klux Klan lynching mob on here demanding blood from the horse's owner, right??

So why different if it is a dog? The dog in question was with the owner, it was, we are assured, ON A LEAD and therefore under close control. 

Forgive me, but to me the issue is clear cut. The owner of the horse(s) should damn well pay up for the damage. And make damn sure that the horses are fenced off from the public area in the future so something like this can't happen again. If they can kick a dog, then the horrendous possibility is there that they could also kick a person. If they were mine, I would put up some leccy fencing and keep them away from the public footpath.


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## JillA (4 June 2017)

The law only regards bulls and stallions as unsuitable for the public to encounter on a public right of way, so, like I said before, unless the owner knew the horse in question was likely to be aggressive (i.e. had done it before) there is no legal reason why it should not be in the same field as the footpath. So I don't see how he can be liable in law. Morally, well that's a different matter, but there is such a thing as an accident - no-ones fault, just one of those things. That's what this sounds like to me. 
I'm property hunting at the moment and for reasons like this, as well as security, I have turned down any with public footpaths running through the land.


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## Clodagh (4 June 2017)

MiJodsR2BlinkinTite said:



			Mmmmmm..... just a few observations from my own slant on this:

Firstly, this is a "PUBLIC" footpath. So, the (errhh) "public" have a right to be there, yes?? "Public" means just that, public, and so you could have literally anyone walking across that field, people with dogs, kiddies out with mummy, children going for a ramble etc etc. Sorry but if it was someone's kiddie who'd got kicked then I'm sure there'd be a Klu Klux Klan lynching mob on here demanding blood from the horse's owner, right??

So why different if it is a dog? The dog in question was with the owner, it was, we are assured, ON A LEAD and therefore under close control. 

Forgive me, but to me the issue is clear cut. The owner of the horse(s) should damn well pay up for the damage. And make damn sure that the horses are fenced off from the public area in the future so something like this can't happen again. If they can kick a dog, then the horrendous possibility is there that they could also kick a person. If they were mine, I would put up some leccy fencing and keep them away from the public footpath.
		
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It would make more sense to move the public footpath to the field edge and fence that off, but the Ramblers Association won't allow anything sensible like that. 
I actually agree with you, in that people should be able to cross fields safely, but I wouldn't risk myself or my dog in a herd of anything. Except sheep, I am not scared of sheep!


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## minesadouble (4 June 2017)

JillA said:



			The law only regards bulls and stallions as unsuitable for the public to encounter on a public right of way, so, like I said before, unless the owner knew the horse in question was likely to be aggressive (i.e. had done it before) there is no legal reason why it should not be in the same field as the footpath. So I don't see how he can be liable in law. Morally, well that's a different matter, but there is such a thing as an accident - no-ones fault, just one of those things. That's what this sounds like to me. 
I'm property hunting at the moment and for reasons like this, as well as security, I have turned down any with public footpaths running through the land.
		
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I could be wrong but I think the law prohibits only dairy bulls from fields encumbered with a public footpath, I think beef bulls are not prohibited - this certainly used to be the case.


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## MissMoppett (6 June 2017)

Maybe time for a summary. I know nothing about horses but have kept Basset Hounds for 40 years, so maybe that qualifies me to post on Horse and HOUND? First thanks for those who expressed sympathy - but those who said they wouldn't pay either . . . 
There is no doubt that the horse belonged or was trained or in the care of the farmer. His wife didn't dispute that. 
Remember we were lucky, in that the horse could so easily have kicked her in the head or broke a leg, which for a twelve year old Basset would have been the end. And it could so easily have been a child. I did suggest he put up a suitable notice suggesting dog-owners walk round by a road but he was unsympathetic. 
Anyway to cut to the meat, since posting I asked a horsey friend who advised me to contact the British Horse Society who were most helpful. They said "prima facie if you were on a public footpath and dogs were on a lead then the farmer is responsible." 
So the few who knew the law, well done.


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## {97702} (6 June 2017)

Good grief I didn't know we had to be expert lawyers before we responded to a post  why did nobody warn me


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## ycbm (6 June 2017)

MissMoppett said:



			Anyway to cut to the meat, since posting I asked a horsey friend who advised me to contact the British Horse Society who were most helpful. They said "prima facie if you were on a public footpath and dogs were on a lead then the farmer is responsible." 
So the few who knew the law, well done.
		
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Did you talk to a lawyer at the BHS?   It sounds as though there is a bit missing of the end of your sentence, because the NFU are advising their customer, and it is all over the web, that the owner of the horse is not responsible unless the horse was known to behave in this way before being put in the field with the footpath. 

Since NFU have told their customer not to pay you, are you going to sue?  I'm sure we would all be interested in knowing the outcome of that if you could let us know?

He's not allowed to put up a sign saying anyone should not use the path. It's a right of way.


PS, the hounds referred to in the title of the magazine are exclusively fox/stag hounds it's a quote from a famous huntsman.  Mind you, I'd love to see a pack of Bassets out hunting, what a sight that would be with all those ears flapping!


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## Thistle (6 June 2017)

ycbm said:



			Did you talk to a lawyer at the BHS?   It sounds as though there is a bit missing of the end of your sentence, because the NFU are advising their customer, and it is all over the web, that the owner of the horse is not responsible unless the horse was known to behave in this way before being put in the field with the footpath. 

Since NFU have told their customer not to pay you, are you going to sue?  I'm sure we would all be interested in knowing the outcome of that if you could let us know?

He's not allowed to put up a sign saying anyone should not use the path. It's a right of way.


PS, the hounds referred to in the title of the magazine are exclusively fox/stag hounds it's a quote from a famous huntsman.  Mind you, I'd love to see a pack of Bassets out hunting, what a sight that would be with all those ears flapping!  

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There are a number of packs of hunting Bassetts, legs are a little longer, ears a little shorter, but with a hell of a voice. They hunt hares and sometimes rabbits.


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## ycbm (6 June 2017)

Thistle said:



			There are a number of packs of hunting Bassetts, legs are a little longer, ears a little shorter, but with a hell of a voice. They hunt hares and sometimes rabbits.
		
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Well I didn't know that, but surely they are foot packs like Beagles, and therefore my comment is still correct?


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## Alec Swan (6 June 2017)

JillA said:



			The law only regards bulls and stallions as unsuitable for the public to encounter on a public right of way, so, like I said before, unless the owner knew the horse in question was likely to be aggressive (i.e. had done it before) there is no legal reason why it should not be in the same field as the footpath. So I don't see how he can be liable in law. Morally, well that's a different matter, but there is such a thing as an accident - no-ones fault, just one of those things. That's what this sounds like to me. 
&#8230;&#8230;.. .
		
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I wonder what the reaction of the horse owner would be if the dogs had caused injury to one of the horses, &#8230;. 'just one of those things'?  I very much doubt it.

Alec.


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## JillA (6 June 2017)

Alec Swan said:



			I wonder what the reaction of the horse owner would be if the dogs had caused injury to one of the horses, &#8230;. 'just one of those things'?  I very much doubt it.

Alec.
		
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But by law dogs must be under control in a public place. That would be where the fault lies in that scenario


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## Alec Swan (6 June 2017)

JillA said:



			But by law dogs must be under control in a public place. That would be where the fault lies in that scenario
		
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Ah right,  I understand,  so the owner of the horse isn't in any way responsible for the damage that it causes to someone who's legally using a Public Right of Way and across his land?

Attaching blame isn't the point,  the point is one of responsibility and the owner of the horse,  I'd have thought would be responsible in a civil manner to restore the dog owner to their previous state and before they entered the land where they had a legal right to be.  His horse kicked a dog and injured it,  occasioning damage and a bill for £107.  QED I'd have thought.  No?

Alec.


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## Goldenstar (6 June 2017)

It's a question of negilence .
The owner of the horse  is doing what I would do handing it over to the the insurance company who is payed to be responsible for this sort of thing .


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## Rowreach (6 June 2017)

Goldenstar said:



			It's a question of negilence .
The owner of the horse  is doing what I would do handing it over to the the insurance company who is payed to be responsible for this sort of thing .
		
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Exactly. It's a matter for the insurance company and tbh it is perfectly standard for them not to pay out unless and until they have to.

I've no idea why some posters are being so hostile and unwelcoming to the OP, anyone can join the forum and post, it's not just for the chosen few who behave like they own the place.


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## JillA (6 June 2017)

Alec Swan said:



			Ah right,  I understand,  so the owner of the horse isn't in any way responsible for the damage that it causes to someone who's legally using a Public Right of Way and across his land?

Attaching blame isn't the point,  the point is one of responsibility and the owner of the horse,  I'd have thought would be responsible in a civil manner to restore the dog owner to their previous state and before they entered the land where they had a legal right to be.  His horse kicked a dog and injured it,  occasioning damage and a bill for £107.  QED I'd have thought.  No?

Alec.
		
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No. You have to use the law as a basis, as I said earlier it isn't the same as a moral standpoint, that is up to the individual but that goes over and above the legal points


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## paddy555 (6 June 2017)

Rowreach said:



			Exactly. It's a matter for the insurance company and tbh it is perfectly standard for them not to pay out unless and until they have to.

I.
		
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exactly. This chap did what I would have done and asked advice from NFU. He could have sorted it on his own but what if he had paid the small bill expecting the matter to end and then the dog suffered a delayed injury or alternatively the owner got greedy (not meaning you OP) he could have been left with never ending bills which may or may not have been his responsibility. 

This seems to be a never ending saga with the public having rights of way on footpaths and farmers/horse owners having rights to turn their animals out into the field the paths cross. Unless the paths are fenced the potential danger will always be there. I have been with horses for 50 years and would not walk across a field with strange horses in it especially youngsters. I would also be very reticent about walking across fields with cattle even though I have worked with and kept my own cattle. 
I don't know what the solution to this problem as as both sides seem to have equal rights.


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## AdorableAlice (6 June 2017)

This was the latest offering left by the public enjoying the footpath, another gift was left in a different field, way off the footpath.  That offering was human crap and toilet paper.


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## {97702} (6 June 2017)

Thistle said:



			There are a number of packs of hunting Bassetts, legs are a little longer, ears a little shorter, but with a hell of a voice. They hunt hares and sometimes rabbits.
		
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We have a local pack - the Leadon Vale Bassets - who I have seen in action. They are amazing and so are the huntsmen who are spectacularly fit!


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## sjb10 (6 June 2017)

I knew there are basset packs, but didn't realise the legs are a little longer and the ears a little shorter - although both make sense.

We had a basset when I was a child, they are lovely but v strong willed.  In his next home apparently he didn't let the owners share the sofa!

My grandmother also had one, spectacularly lazy but would often bring small animals into the house as a gift of a morning.  We never did work out how beauty caught them, but she regularly did!  

A pack of them in full flight would be an amazing sight & sound.


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## Rowreach (6 June 2017)

Bassetts, bloodhounds, sight hounds ...... whatever, I couldn't care less, this forum surely is open to everyone who wants to contribute.  George Whyte Melville would probably agree.


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## {97702} (6 June 2017)

sjb10 said:



			I knew there are basset packs, but didn't realise the legs are a little longer and the ears a little shorter - although both make sense.

We had a basset when I was a child, they are lovely but v strong willed.  In his next home apparently he didn't let the owners share the sofa!

My grandmother also had one, spectacularly lazy but would often bring small animals into the house as a gift of a morning.  We never did work out how beauty caught them, but she regularly did!  

A pack of them in full flight would be an amazing sight & sound.
		
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I did video them when I saw them but it was on my phone so rubbish quality and not really worth sharing I'm afraid - they were fantastic


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## Alec Swan (6 June 2017)

JillA said:



			No. You have to use the law as a basis, as I said earlier it isn't the same as a moral standpoint, that is up to the individual but that goes over and above the legal points
		
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I agree with you in that this is nothing to do with any moral claim,  no matter how correct we may consider it to be. Let me put it to you another way; &#8230;.

You have a legal right to enter and cross my property (a PRoW).  My horse injures you (OR your property,  in this case a dog) and you have no recourse to the Courts to claim any sort of redress in a civil issue?  As I see it,  this hinges around the dog walker's right to exercise their rights,  and without let,  hindrance or injury.

Assuming that I'm wrong,  which I may well be,  I live and learn!

Alec.


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## Rowreach (6 June 2017)

Alec Swan said:



			I agree with you in that this is nothing to do with any moral claim,  no matter how correct we may consider it to be. Let me put it to you another way; &#8230;.

You have a legal right to enter and cross my property (a PRoW).  My horse injures you (OR your property,  in this case a dog) and you have no recourse to the Courts to claim any sort of redress in a civil issue?  As I see it,  this hinges around the dog walker's right to exercise their rights,  and without let,  hindrance or injury.

Assuming that I'm wrong,  which I may well be,  I live and learn!

Alec.
		
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I don't think it's that you have no rights Alec, it's that generally these things are handled by the insurance company in much the same way as if you had a prang on the road - you aren't going to just say oops sorry I put a dent in your door, here's a cheque ...


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## MissMoppett (6 June 2017)

Lévrier;13566165 said:
			
		


			I did video them when I saw them but it was on my phone so rubbish quality and not really worth sharing I'm afraid - they were fantastic 

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See www.bassethounds-walk.co.uk. Not a trained pack but a stroll every month of 5 or so miles. We have had 65 out at one go - but farmers don't get anxious - that was on a beach and will never happen across farmland. (Thank gawd for that then).


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## GirlFriday (6 June 2017)

Rowreach said:



			I don't think it's that you have no rights Alec, it's that generally these things are handled by the insurance company in much the same way as if you had a prang on the road - you aren't going to just say oops sorry I put a dent in your door, here's a cheque ...
		
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Problem is that is usually between two insurance companies. An individual is simply less likely to have the resources to get something sorted. Which can be a pain.

ETA: definitely almost always a pain in fact! Would have almost certainly been easier to sort things out as gentlemen/ladies.


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## PucciNPoni (7 June 2017)

Rowreach said:



			Bassetts, bloodhounds, sight hounds ...... whatever, I couldn't care less, this forum surely is open to everyone who wants to contribute.  George Whyte Melville would probably agree.
		
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Ain't no one chucked me (or my poodles) off yet.


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## Cahill (7 June 2017)

one of my dog walks has a fp across a small field.
i think in this particular instance, the farmer puts cattle in there to discourage anyone using the fp.
i spoke to the row officer and was told if the path blocked (the cattle always crowd in the corner around the style) then to take the next shortest route down the other side of the hedge in the next field.

i never walk paths with other peoples cows/horses on them.

also i think horses in fp fields are a bit `dodgy` as joe public feeds them tipbits that they are on the look out for treats.


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## ycbm (7 June 2017)

Rowreach said:



			Bassetts, bloodhounds, sight hounds ...... whatever, I couldn't care less, this forum surely is open to everyone who wants to contribute.  George Whyte Melville would probably agree.
		
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No-one said otherwise. My comment was only to correct the OPs impression that the title of the magazine referred separately to any horses and any hounds. Just being pedantic, not making any comment on her right to post.


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## ycbm (7 June 2017)

MissMoppett said:



			See www.bassethounds-walk.co.uk. Not a trained pack but a stroll every month of 5 or so miles. We have had 65 out at one go - but farmers don't get anxious - that was on a beach and will never happen across farmland. (Thank gawd for that then).
		
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Awesome video on that site!


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## Tiddlypom (7 June 2017)

PucciNPoni said:



			Ain't no one chucked me (or my poodles) off yet.
		
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*Poodles? POODLES* on HHO? Swoons...

(Actually, I love 'em, had one as a child and he was awesome ).

I rarely stick to the designated footpath route if it goes diagonally across a field with livestock in. I aim to cross safely, which may mean hugging the boundary, with minimal disturbance to the resident animals. The dog(s) is always on a lead.

I know you are supposed to stick to the exact route, but a little common sense goes a long way. It is an offence to have a dangerous animla in a field with a PROW, but any animal may react unexpectedly.


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## Rowreach (7 June 2017)

PucciNPoni said:



			Ain't no one chucked me (or my poodles) off yet.
		
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Truffle hunters.  Even the antis surely can't complain about that sort of hound.


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## PucciNPoni (7 June 2017)

Sorry, this is a *slight* hijack...

But yes, truffle hunting poodles! LOL  and ball hunting etc. 

I've kept this one kind of quiet....


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## ycbm (7 June 2017)

PucciNPoni said:



			Sorry, this is a *slight* hijack...

But yes, truffle hunting poodles! LOL  and ball hunting etc. 

I've kept this one kind of quiet....






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Matchy matchy ball and hair-band ?


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## PucciNPoni (7 June 2017)

ycbm said:



			Matchy matchy ball and hair-band ?   

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But of course...doesn't EVERYONE do that? lol


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## JillA (7 June 2017)

When I worked at  Pennwood years ago Charlie Moffatt's wife bred the small ones (?toy?) and they were not allowed to be pampered, they were tough as old boots. Aren't they originally a hunting breed?


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## Rowreach (7 June 2017)

JillA said:



			When I worked at  Pennwood years ago Charlie Moffatt's wife bred the small ones (?toy?) and they were not allowed to be pampered, they were tough as old boots. Aren't they originally a hunting breed?
		
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I think they were retrievers but I may be wrong.  They were definitely used for truffle hunting though.


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## PucciNPoni (8 June 2017)

Standards are good retrievers yes, and miniatures will do anything and everything.  They're the size of a working cocker spaniel.  They usually like water, have webbed feet and despite the strange looks poodle clips of old were intended for the field (we have obviously made them exaggerated for the show ring and modern times allow us to fluff and style them a bit more extravagantly).

Mins and toys were used for hunting truffles.  Mine hunt worms in the lawn so I'm not surprised.  My min bitch is a very keen retriever (well, of balls and anything thrown) and loves her agility and despite my misfortunes, she's rather good at it.   The toy is not yet six months and already showing a keenness for learning too and is pretty fearless.  The are so trainable so it's no surprise that they have been known for circus acts and anything to make people laugh.  Proper comedians, are poodles


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## Clodagh (8 June 2017)

A beater on a shoot I pick up on has a toy poodle and a cockerpoo. The toy is much the better of the two, he works like a trojan and has a great nose. The cockerpoo is mad as a March hare. I love poodles. I wouldn't fancy the grooming after a days shooting though, even though they are clipped out it can't be too short, obviously, and the burrs and brambles that get in there.


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## Goldenstar (8 June 2017)

AdorableAlice said:



			This was the latest offering left by the public enjoying the footpath, another gift was left in a different field, way off the footpath.  That offering was human crap and toilet paper.






Click to expand...

What is it with this crapping in the countryside thing ?
It's bizarre .


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## Cinnamontoast (8 June 2017)

Dunno why the OP is getting defensive about being allowed to post when no-one has questioned his/her right to do so? Odd. 

I don't agree with this 'It could have been a child' cry. Horses are fight or flight, mine is horrified at dogs capering round, it's taken him years to ignore the GSD/mail on the yard. He would try to attack my dog if I caught in with the dog on a lead. 

Re involving lawyers/court, I'd be weighing the costs up very carefully before proceeding. Whilst the law may be on your side, it might not be financially viable to proceed.


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