# Cooling down legs after XC



## Javabb94 (17 April 2013)

I have just started eventing my 5 year old so was wondering what people use to cool legs after hard work or XC?

She has done one event but was at home so cold hosed/walked/and borrowed some cooling gel 

Next event is away from home so obviously won't have hose pipe! 

I have heard bandage legs then freezer bags on top for 15/20 mins with bandages over the top before travelling then again when at home - this seems the cheapest option 

I like the premier equine water boots but they are quite expensive and the freezer bags would be ideal as can keep in cool box! 

Any recommendations/ideas gratefully received


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## Lolo (17 April 2013)

I don't know if this is correct, or scientifically accurate or anything, but I HATE cooling gels or clays with an almighty passion when it comes to cooling legs. They act as insulators and will reheat the leg as effectively as they cooled it.

With Reg, we put tubigrips on his legs, doubled over, and then slot in freezer bags. We keep the freezer bags in an icebox which we put under the ramp when we arrive at the event- they've not melted before they've been put on yet.

I prefer this method because it cools fairly aggressively (we wash the legs with cold water first when he gets back, and he gets walked and then washed a few times before we put the ice on) and is ridiculously cheap


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## wench (17 April 2013)

I have had a pair of JHL cool boots, these are really good, you put them in the freezer, then onto legs. Only trouble is they defrost if you take them to a show, even in a cool box. I now have some of these:

http://www.harpleyequestrian.co.uk/equine_therapy_cooling_products.htm

Not really sure how effective they are, but a little more practical


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## DoesDressage (17 April 2013)

Equine fitness leg coolers are AMAIZNG!!! The best buy I have ever made. Only soak in water and stay ice cold for days. Highly recommend to anyone. Whenever I use them no one can quite believe how cold they are without freezing and how cold they stay. I put on after xc and travel home with them under the travel boots.


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## TableDancer (17 April 2013)

I do have cold boots which work quite well - we also use the tubigrip/ice approach at a three day, don't bother at one days. If you are going to bandage freezer bags on you must take them off as soon as they have stopped doing their job ie maximum 20minutes, don't be tempted to travel home in them or anything or they will start heating the legs up, as Lolo describes.

My understanding is that it is not so much the gels and clays which do the damage through insulation, it is that people then wrap the leg up with layer after layer (brown paper/j cloths, pad, bandage etc). Talking to Pony Team vet, they still favour using something on the legs but leaving it open to evaporate (gel) or dry (clay). You have to be careful of the gels particularly, as some of them have banned products like witch hazel in them.


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## CaleruxShearer (17 April 2013)

I wouldn't bother icing for a low level, one day event personally. Mine events at Novice and has his boots off as soon as studs are out after xc, then washed off and walked, legs washed off again then cool gel applied to them (I use the Gold Label Leg Ice gel) which is then left on and the legs open (apart from travel boots) until we get home. At home he has them washed off again and is then bandaged overnight. They are then un-bandaged in the morning and he's trotted up. I'm not a massive fan of the clays, they can hold heat pretty well and they are quite messy. The thing you have to be really careful of when putting gels or clays pn legs after xc is making sure there are no little cuts or nicks in the skin because they tend to irritate it and you will have a horse with a leg like an elephant for two days! I speak from bitter experience!!


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## Jnhuk (17 April 2013)

I have Bonner bandages which I can use for this for this and they also can be used on humans!


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## Javabb94 (17 April 2013)

Lolo said:



			I don't know if this is correct, or scientifically accurate or anything, but I HATE cooling gels or clays with an almighty passion when it comes to cooling legs. They act as insulators and will reheat the leg as effectively as they cooled it.

With Reg, we put tubigrips on his legs, doubled over, and then slot in freezer bags. We keep the freezer bags in an icebox which we put under the ramp when we arrive at the event- they've not melted before they've been put on yet.

I prefer this method because it cools fairly aggressively (we wash the legs with cold water first when he gets back, and he gets walked and then washed a few times before we put the ice on) and is ridiculously cheap 

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Yes i had heard that about gel and clays - i have been recommended the NAF Ice Cool Clay but will steer clear of clay now! 
I think it was one of your posts on another thread where i heard about the freezer bags! I wasn't sure how easy tubigrip would be to put on hence why im thinking bandages maybe.



wench said:



			I have had a pair of JHL cool boots, these are really good, you put them in the freezer, then onto legs. Only trouble is they defrost if you take them to a show, even in a cool box. I now have some of these:

http://www.harpleyequestrian.co.uk/equine_therapy_cooling_products.htm

Not really sure how effective they are, but a little more practical
		
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Thanks will have a look at these 



DoesDressage said:



			Equine fitness leg coolers are AMAIZNG!!! The best buy I have ever made. Only soak in water and stay ice cold for days. Highly recommend to anyone. Whenever I use them no one can quite believe how cold they are without freezing and how cold they stay. I put on after xc and travel home with them under the travel boots.
		
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Thanks for the recommendation will have a look on the internet for them 



TableDancer said:



			I do have cold boots which work quite well - we also use the tubigrip/ice approach at a three day, don't bother at one days. If you are going to bandage freezer bags on you must take them off as soon as they have stopped doing their job ie maximum 20minutes, don't be tempted to travel home in them or anything or they will start heating the legs up, as Lolo describes.

My understanding is that it is not so much the gels and clays which do the damage through insulation, it is that people then wrap the leg up with layer after layer (brown paper/j cloths, pad, bandage etc). Talking to Pony Team vet, they still favour using something on the legs but leaving it open to evaporate (gel) or dry (clay). You have to be careful of the gels particularly, as some of them have banned products like witch hazel in them.
		
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Thanks no would definitely not travel in them - i dont even travel in travel boots as horse travels alone so doesn't need them 
Thanks never thought about banned products!

So is it that essential to cool legs at the level im at? She is currently only doing BE80 but hope to have done a 90 before the season is over - i'm totally paranoid about everything with her and want to make sure everythings right!



CaleruxShearer said:



			I wouldn't bother icing for a low level, one day event personally. Mine events at Novice and has his boots off as soon as studs are out after xc, then washed off and walked, legs washed off again then cool gel applied to them (I use the Gold Label Leg Ice gel) which is then left on and the legs open (apart from travel boots) until we get home. At home he has them washed off again and is then bandaged overnight. They are then un-bandaged in the morning and he's trotted up. I'm not a massive fan of the clays, they can hold heat pretty well and they are quite messy. The thing you have to be really careful of when putting gels or clays pn legs after xc is making sure there are no little cuts or nicks in the skin because they tend to irritate it and you will have a horse with a leg like an elephant for two days! I speak from bitter experience!!
		
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Thanks for this thats really helpful  as i said above max this season will be BE90 as she has only just turned 5 and don't want to push her - 
I may just wash off then freezer bag for 15 mins whilst still at this level


Jnhuk said:



			I have Bonner bandages which I can use for this for this and they also can be used on humans!
		
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Thanks will have a look at those


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## Firewell (17 April 2013)

Xc is xc I don't think it hurts to cool the legs at any level.
I use witchhazel and arnica gel. I give the legs a good wash off, check for cuts and then massage the gel in around the tendons and joints. I leave his legs open, I don't bandage as can't see the point of making the legs hot with a stable bandage when I'm trying to cool them?! I never do my bandages up tight enough to provide much support as I'm paranoid about marking his legs. I only ever use bandages to keep dressings in place. 
I like the witch Hazel and arnica gel, have also used diulted cool gel as a wash before which I think is good.
Not a fan of neat cooling gel or clay, especially not with a bandage over the top as the one time I did that it burnt the hair off and made the legs sore oopsie!
Have never tried cool boots but can see they would be useful if they weren't too cold and were put on for a short period of time..probably easier than standing with a hose for 20 mins!


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## Firewell (17 April 2013)

Only just read.. why is witch Hazel banned?


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## Firewell (17 April 2013)

This is the kind of stuff I use:-
http://www.robinsonsequestrian.com/...quisite-witch-hazel-and-arnica-gel-400g.html/
Have used it on myself before as well


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## charlimouse (17 April 2013)

This is what I am planning on doing my dissertation on next year (writing project proposal at the moment!). Looking at the cooling products available to the averavge horse owner, as opposed to those you have to sell a kidney to afford!


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## TableDancer (17 April 2013)

Firewell said:



			Only just read.. why is witch Hazel banned?
		
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 because it works!  Look, your chances of being tested at a BE ODE are pretty slim, especially once you are all finished (on the occasions they test, they usually grab people as they finish a phase) but worth knowing all the same, and certainly bear in mind if he ever goes FEI where it all gets a bit more serious - I have been drug tested twice (horses) at FEI...


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## ZoeCharlotte (17 April 2013)

When I groom for my friend it doesn't matter what level they've run at, it's always a routine of boots (sorry, don't know the brand!) that have been soaked in cold water for about an hour on all legs. My friend does like to put cooling clay on and then bandage over the top, which as far as I can tell does nothing. It has arnica in it though, so there does seem to be a reason to use irregardless of cooling properties. However, I'm not too sure arnica really has any medicinal measurable properties. If it was me, I would use the same boots my friend has as they retain water really well and actively cool the legs after every run. I wouldn't spend the money on ointments though!


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## Javabb94 (17 April 2013)

Thanks all for the suggestions - I would get water boots but rather expensive! 

I will probably try Lolo's method as sounds cheapest way then won't have wasted any money 

I know it's probably over thinking it but I'm so protective of A and a big worrier when it comes to things like this 

Charlimouse - that sounds really interesting - cheap is the way to go!


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## Lolo (17 April 2013)

By the time we're icing, Reg has walked about a bit so is very chilled again- he's a really easy horse to handle so happily stands munching which people manhandle tubigrips onto him! But once you get practiced at it, it only takes 2 seconds to whack it all on


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## oldvic (17 April 2013)

We use witch hazel on both racehorses and event horses without any problems. If it was a banned substance it wouldn't be allowed into the racecourse stables.


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## glamourpuss (17 April 2013)

I thought it was only camphor banned not witch hazel?

But then I haven't studied the lists in any great detail


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## Gucci_b (18 April 2013)

I personally wouldn't use iced bags and leave on for any amount of time as this can cause "ice burns". I would hose with cooled water or sponge off repeatedly. Their is plenty of B.E legal leg cooling gels on the market now.


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## TableDancer (18 April 2013)

oldvic said:



			We use witch hazel on both racehorses and event horses without any problems. If it was a banned substance it wouldn't be allowed into the racecourse stables.
		
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I was told by an FEI vet a year or two ago that it was banned, but there was considerable confusion over several substances (I was told around then that Sudocreme was a no no but more recently that it is fine?) So I certainly bow to oldvic's knowledge which is considerably greater than mine  (no irony intended)

Ice bags would be fine to use, btw, as long as there is something between them and the skin.


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## MagicMelon (18 April 2013)

TableDancer said:



			(I was told around then that Sudocreme was a no no but more recently that it is fine?)
		
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Good grief what on earth can sudocreme have in it which is "performance enhancing"? I use it all the time!


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## SW3 (18 April 2013)

I use equi-n-ice, liquid coolant you soak your bandages in and then bandage legs after washing off. I tend to leave on for 30 mins or so then follow  up with gel leaving legs bare until travel boots on to go home


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## stencilface (18 April 2013)

MagicMelon said:



			Good grief what on earth can sudocreme have in it which is "performance enhancing"? I use it all the time!
		
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Think it has very mild steroids in it, which is why its good for soothing and inflammation?

Personally I wouldn't use anything on a horse that doesn't have a pre-existing condition for low level (up to PN ish) competition.  A wash down and walk around, which hopefully you would do anyway shoudl be sufficient given that horses legs are designed for running and then effective cooling.  Ours are generally always turned out overnight when they get home which I think helps too.  Obviously if the ground is awful (hard or soft) then it might be different, but I tend to ride to the conditions and won't belt round if its questionable.  

For cooling I think the icing using tubigrips is great, 20 mins on, 20 mins off if you can for a couple of hours. I've never used anything on my horse, but since various lamenesses over the past few years (not related to xc/galloping etc) I will be more careful in future, won't run if the ground is terrible, and will buy some ice boots for afterwards as the tubigrip scenario only really works if you're stabled overnight at the comp


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## SpottedCat (18 April 2013)

Sudocrem used to be banned because of the Benzyl Benzoate I think, but it certainly doesn't show up in the FEI clean sport app, so I guess is now fine? 

Interestingly Camphor, which is known to work by numbing nerves, also doesn't show up on the FEI clean sport app, which would imply that it is fine to use, but there is a lot of evidence out there that it is effective as a leg cooling gel because it is an analgesic! That makes it banned under jockey club rules, which only list the effects something has to have rather than all the substances. 

It's such a minefield that I personally don't use any cooling gels/leg preparations. Just cool boots soaked in water that's had ice packs in it.


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## paulineh (18 April 2013)

I use cool boots that are soaked in a bucket of water. I hav used these at vet gates and at the end of a ride. I put them into a bucket of ice cold water before I start the ride and they are ready when I get back.

Once the legs are washed down then the boot are put on until I go to the vetting. If I am at a race ride then the legs are quickly washed then off to the vets and on the return the cool boots are put on. If I need the cool boots out on course I will put them (after soaking) in a cool bag the add some ice, cheap from a supermarket, or you can make your own.

At home I hose the leg down towel dry and then put some TLC (Tendon and Ligament Care gel) made by Hilton Herbs on the legs.

To travel home from an event I put magnetic wraps on under the travel boots/bandages.


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## Gamebird (18 April 2013)

Sudocreme was a definite no-go, doesn't seem to be definitively banned now but I don't risk it.

As you may know I do have some knowledge in the area of banned substances. I inteded to write an article for www.e-venting.co.uk on 'how to stay clean', focussing on common medications and home remedies (sudocreme etc.). Unfortunately the area is a huge can of worms. Various sources (including the FEI list) seem to be rather contradictory and between my professional knowledge, the literature on the subject and my friend who's an FEI vet it was impossible to come up with a list of things which were safe to use at any time, those which needed a withdrawal time and those which couldn't be used at all.

Oh, and to add to the melee the FEI seems to have diverged rather from the Jockey Club rules on which they originally based their restrictions. The data for common drugs eg. bute and seadtives is pretty standard but lots of other things (including, importantly Gastrogard) vary between the sports.

I gave up!


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## wench (18 April 2013)

Slightly off-topic, but another thing that slightly "gets" me is the use of banned products if you havent applied them.

Lets say that horse gets a slight knock in the field, and YO gives some bute/puts something on thats banned couple of days before an event... you then take horse to event and get tested, and comes back positive. Your the one that gets banned and fined, whereas personally, I think they should be able to do something to the yard/person that's caused the problem as well.


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## Gamebird (18 April 2013)

wench said:



			Slightly off-topic, but another thing that slightly "gets" me is the use of banned products if you havent applied them.

Lets say that horse gets a slight knock in the field, and YO gives some bute/puts something on thats banned couple of days before an event... you then take horse to event and get tested, and comes back positive. Your the one that gets banned and fined, whereas personally, I think they should be able to do something to the yard/person that's caused the problem as well.
		
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Rubbish. It's your responisbility. No-one should be giving anything to your horse without your knowledge or permission and you need to make this clear to the YO.


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## wench (18 April 2013)

Gamebird said:



			Rubbish. It's your responisbility. No-one should be giving anything to your horse without your knowledge or permission and you need to make this clear to the YO.
		
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Unfortunately... this doesn't always work...


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## dominobrown (18 April 2013)

Gamebird- I thought most things have a 2 week withdrawal period, well definitely camphor? 
personally I wouldn't use anything at a low level or on good ground. If the ground is particularly bad then yes I would. The horse is pretty efficient at cooling itself imo, and I certainly had no problems with my pointer, which must be a far greater strain than most low level events. 
I have also used clays a lot, had great results and both my eventers, pointers and racehorses.


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## eventergirl87 (18 April 2013)

Previously always just used ice packets (human ones re freeze etc...) always with a layer in between so no Ice burn occurs. 

Re gels etc... I use aloe vera, as it won't harm only help any knicks etc.. or wonder gel (gold label ... its for cuts but is aloe vera with added stuff like tea tree oil) 

But we have a Zamar machine (worth every penny IMO for horse and human!) so I wash off at events travel home and put straight on zamar. Then gel, bandage (if has to stay in) or some gel turn out and zamar AM also.


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## ellie_e (18 April 2013)

This is interesting: http://e-venting.co.uk/?p=145


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## TarrSteps (18 April 2013)

Re 'someone else' giving your horse a banned substance. . .if it happens, appeal. That's what the process is for. But the rule is it's the rider's - and only the rider's - responsibility and so it should be. If you suspect your horse has been exposed to a banned substance, withdraw. As to your YO giving your horse bute without your knowledge. . words fail me! Why would that happen, at least more than once??

There is much confusion over therapeutic/controlled/banned substances so always best to err on the side of caution. It is rather a 'spirit of the law' thing though - basically if you are giving ANYTHING to address discomfort, affect temperament or change way of going then you are technically in breach of the rules. Of course people do these things all the time but to a large extent what's allowed has more to do with what's detectable than anything else. 

Other substances are controlled because they interfere with testing. In some circumstances you can apply for dispensation but again, up to competitors to know the rules.


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## PFM22 (18 April 2013)

i use these - http://www.woofwear.com/for-horses/bandages--wraps--therapy/ice-therapy-boots_one-size.html - they can be used with ice/frozen peas etc or with cold packs http://www.woofwear.com/for-horses/bandages--wraps--therapy/hot--cold-pack_hot--cold-pack.html - can also use them for hot therapy - good value too.


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## willtowin (18 April 2013)

I like these! http://www.equiplus.co.uk/
Daughter has a constantly dodgy ankle as well as tennis elbow (from, would you believe, tennis ) and uses it on herself as well. I think they do make a human variety, they're exactly the same product and owned by the same person. But the horse one is cheaper as you get it in relative bulk!


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## Goldenstar (18 April 2013)

Jnhuk said:



			I have Bonner bandages which I can use for this for this and they also can be used on humans!
		
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I am a big fan of bonner bandages .


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## blackhor2e (18 April 2013)

I use the ice vibe boots, cooling and vibration although a tad expensive I love them


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## Javabb94 (19 April 2013)

Wow thanks everyone! All of this information is really useful

Thanks


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## Lyle (20 April 2013)

I always ice after XC, it's not hard for me to do. 

I have an awesome set of ice boots, they cover from over the knee right down to the hoof, and are made from a neoprene outer with slots inside. I can then add crushed up ice. Ice is the best, because as it melts it takes the heat away. I'm not a fan of water boots as I feel that they won't be cold enough when they hit a hot leg, and will then heat the leg up.


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## naza (28 April 2013)

can i ask possibly a silly question... if you put on icepacks or ice boots etc, then the leg is going to wet and i thought that you shouldnt bandage wet legs..?


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## Mouse&Bay (1 May 2013)

At the risk of being mocked...

I'm a fan of icing legs. But I'm lazy. My new trick from last summer?  Little cooler filled with ice and.. wait for it.. freezies. Yes, the human "ice cream" freezy tubes. You can get a pack of about 50 for very cheap. If you throw lots of them in the cooler with a pile of ice they stay frozen for a while. Horse comes in from cross country, thin wrap and freezies taped on with exercise bandages. When they've melted (about 15 minutes), time for them to come off. I like using them because they are malleable and nicely mold around the legs. 

Yes - you do need to make sure that there is something between the skin and the ice so you don't accidentally burn the horse.


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