# Just been told not to walk on some tits land......



## lexiedhb (27 June 2011)

Ok so what would you do?

We have woods near us that I have walked in since getting Dex and before with OH's mothers dog. Its a nice loop round- quiet, you can see whats coming (ideal for Dex and his dog reactiveness) cool in the weather- generally just nice.

So I am walking along when an off lead spangle comes haring at us stops barks and then scoots off into the woods..... Dex does his "PERLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE let me go to" act..... and is quite understandably I feel excited... then a man and a lady appear... and this happens

Man:"that dog isnt under control, these are my woods"
Me " dex sit (he does) sorry but he is under control he is on both a harness and a headcollar- cant get much more control than that"
Man: " well he does not look it to me- I have a dog and am feeling quite intimidated by him"
Me: " ok well we'll move on then, but really he is just very excited by your off lead spaniel in the woods, who as it goes barked at him/me"
Man: "well this is my land and I never want to see THAT dog here again"
Me: " hes a rescue and under control- is never off lead, you're not being fair!, he has to learn somewhere, he hasn't lunged or barked at you he is just sat here staring into the woods after your dog, admittedly with the odd squeal- but its is just excitement, and as I said he is never off lead"
Man: " well he's not going to learn  here, hes intimidating, this is MY land, I never want THAT dog here again"

Que me walking off and bursting into tears (as actually Dex had been really good, and if he poxy spangle hadn't run up to us barking he would have ignored the people totally) ..... so what to do? There is a public footpath straight through the woods, but I do not think it includes the rest of the circular bit. Would you stay away anyway? of be defiant and carry on going?- even if to just walk the bit that is actually a public right of way? 

Why is it ok for his nutter of a dog to run up to us barking and then sod off but mine- on a headcollar and harness is not under control............ this has really upset me as now I will have to stick the dog in the car to do anything other than road walk pretty much.....

Oh have never seen this guy in the woods before- spangle was quite distinctive markings.


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## Dobiegirl (27 June 2011)

My thoughts are he is not the landowner, you as a girl are an easy target and I think he wants the walk all to himself. If it was me I would still walk there but not at the same time as you did today. We dont have any public footpaths out the back of our farm but Ive never met a dog walker there. Ive found people in the field behind the house and have told them not walk there as my Dobes guard the property. Its all lies but I said it for a security point of view dont want people eying things to pinch. As I understand it to prove trespass there must be some form of damage ie.treading down crops,harassing livestock or pheasants. As you were doing neither and had your dog on the lead I would think he would be hard pressed to accuse you of anything.


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## YasandCrystal (27 June 2011)

Dobiegirl said:



			My thoughts are he is not the landowner, you as a girl are an easy target and I think he wants the walk all to himself. If it was me I would still walk there but not at the same time as you did today. We dont have any public footpaths out the back of our farm but Ive never met a dog walker there. Ive found people in the field behind the house and have told them not walk there as my Dobes guard the property. Its all lies but I said it for a security point of view dont want people eying things to pinch. As I understand it to prove trespass there must be some form of damage ie.treading down crops,harassing livestock or pheasants. As you were doing neither and had your dog on the lead I would think he would be hard pressed to accuse you of anything.
		
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I agree with this.  Some people are just mean!!!!


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## marmalade76 (27 June 2011)

Dobiegirl said:



			My thoughts are he is not the landowner, you as a girl are an easy target and I think he wants the walk all to himself.
		
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That's just what I was thinking.....:/


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## lexiedhb (27 June 2011)

I did think maybe he was showing off to the woman he was with.... and seriously if you were that intimidated by an "out of control" dog would you then walk right past it on a 2 foot wide path?  He may well own the land- how would one go about finding that out? OH is spitting feathers that he was not there...... turns out landowners can not ask you not to go there for their own made up reasons... but like I said the footpath does not include the circular bit.... 

I "used" to go between 5 and 6pm purposely because it was quiet so other owners are not disturbed by Dex and his noise/fuss at other dogs......


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## jrp204 (27 June 2011)

We have several footpaths around the farm but still find people walking across fields with no public access.
Regardless of how well behaved your dog is and how badly behaved the LO's is, it is not your land and has no public access on it so you shouldn't be there. 
So many people think that an open field is a free for all, but unless it is YOUR field or one that has open access (I believe Scotland has different access rights) you shouldn't be there. Sorry.
That 'tit' has bought his land and should be able to choose who he allows to use it.


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## Dobiegirl (27 June 2011)

I always find the local pub a good place to find out these things and if they dont know you wont have wasted your evening.

What about your farrier or local hunt they would be bound to know also local farmers.


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## lexiedhb (27 June 2011)

jrp204 said:



			We have several footpaths around the farm but still find people walking across fields with no public access.
Regardless of how well behaved your dog is and how badly behaved the LO's is, it is not your land and has no public access on it so you shouldn't be there. 
So many people think that an open field is a free for all, but unless it is YOUR field or one that has open access (I believe Scotland has different access rights) you shouldn't be there. Sorry.
That 'tit' has bought his land and should be able to choose who he allows to use it.
		
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So if he wants noone to use it FENCE it.... this is not open fields I am talking about,  where I am always careful to stick to the designated rights of way it is woodland that could easily be fenced alongside the main footpath. This is a well trodden path used year round by dog walkers. Had he just said "please do not use my land" I would have been like "oh so sorry I did not know this was not a footpath!" and moved on........

He obviously doe not mind it being used- on the whole- if he is indeed the land owner.


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## cptrayes (27 June 2011)

I'm sorry but you need to get off his land.

I see from your previous posts that the dog is a Staffie/Ridgeback cross and both those breeds, if I came across them needing a double harness/halter combination would scare me witless in the control of a female who might not be strong enough to hold him. My horse had his throat attacked by a loose ridgeback.

Only you know your dog is completely under control, other people looking on don't. He's  a playful spaniel man, not a fighting dog man. He may genuinely be scared of your dog. On his land, he's entitled to ask you to leave and you need to do that.


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## lexiedhb (27 June 2011)

Oh congrats you made it to the right thread............ jeez

I am perfectly capable of holding him at 15 stone ta. HE IS NOT A FIGHTING DOG so get off the cross thanks and he is "thought" to be that cross.... NOT IS, will never know, could be lab cross? boxer? dunno

I did get off his land


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## cptrayes (27 June 2011)

lexiedhb said:



			OH is spitting feathers that he was not there...... turns out landowners can not ask you not to go there for their own made up reasons..
		
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Landowners can ask you not to go on their land with no reason given at all. If there is no public right of way you have no right to be on his land.


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## lexiedhb (27 June 2011)

cptrayes said:



			Landowners can ask you not to go on their land with no reason given at all. If there is no public right of way you have no right to be on his land.
		
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Yes if not public right of way- which means I CAN still go on the bit that has a foot path.


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## Clodagh (27 June 2011)

Yes you can go on the footpath but you have no rights off it, and if he has asked you to leave and its his land then you have no rights. Would you like it if he walked his spaniel in your garden? Would it be OK if it was on a lead?
Sorry but as a farmers wife it drives us nuts when people think they can walk anywhere because we have tracks around the fields.


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## lexiedhb (27 June 2011)

Believe me I DO get this..... I guess had he not  bought the dog into it, it would not have upset me at all, and I would have been profusely apolagetic at not having researched the paths.

Wouldnt mind an on lead spangle in the garden to be honest.


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## CorvusCorax (27 June 2011)

CP for goodness sake, he is not a fighting dog, he is a pet. 
I'd hate to come up under you in a dog-related case, you clearly have a bias.
Are you accusing the OP of engaging in an illegal activity?!
Ridgebacks were originally used for hunting lions, not fighting.

How and ever, if it is his land, I would respect his wishes, sorry, my neighbour's field right across the road has a footpath through it which is used as a shortcut to the bus stop and I would never take the dog on it without ringing and checking with him first, you do have to respect the landowner's wishes, I think.


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## lexiedhb (27 June 2011)

Thanks CC - seems whole breed bias is still alive and kicking no matter what the breed 

You are allowed dogs on foot paths though. I will steer clear of the parts that are NOT footpaths- will get an up to date map.


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## Maesfen (27 June 2011)

jrp204 said:



			Regardless of how well behaved your dog is and how badly behaved the LO's is, it is not your land and has no public access on it so you shouldn't be there. 
So many people think that an open field is a free for all, but unless it is YOUR field or one that has open access (I believe Scotland has different access rights) you shouldn't be there. Sorry.
That 'tit' has bought his land and should be able to choose who he allows to use it.
		
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Ditto this.



lexiedhb said:



			So if he wants noone to use it FENCE it.... this is not open fields I am talking about,  where I am always careful to stick to the designated rights of way it is woodland that could easily be fenced alongside the main footpath. This is a well trodden path used year round by dog walkers. Had he just said "please do not use my land" I would have been like "oh so sorry I did not know this was not a footpath!" and moved on........

He obviously doe not mind it being used- on the whole- if he is indeed the land owner.
		
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Why should he pay out and erect a fence when one has not been needed before because people kept to the footpath?



cptrayes said:



			Landowners can ask you not to go on their land with no reason given at all. If there is no public right of way you have no right to be on his land.
		
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lexiedhb said:



			Yes if not public right of way- which means I CAN still go on the bit that has a foot path.
		
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Precisely.  KEEP TO THE PATH, you do have a right to be THERE but not anywhere else on his land that is a designated footpath/bridleway unless he gives you special dispensation.




lexiedhb said:



			Believe me I DO get this..... I guess had he not  bought the dog into it, it would not have upset me at all, and I would have been profusely apolagetic at not having researched the paths.
		
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Don't be so sensitive please; you must be used to the reactions of Joe Public to the type of dog you have, it goes with the territory and not everyone will be happy to be in the vicinity of him even if he is trussed up like a chicken in all manner of harnesses even though you know he's a softee at heart, others don't, you can't blame them.
Just keep to the correct paths in future.


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## shiresrus123 (27 June 2011)

i can see from their perspective - just found some tits walking off the path with a loose dog


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## lexiedhb (27 June 2011)

Dont know how to multi quote but it is obvious this man does not have a problem per se with people walking the WELL trodden paths through the woods- although they are probably NOT on the maps as footpaths.

Yes yes his land his call

Apart from a few at the beginning (from family mainly) no I have not come across any negativity with my type of dog- he looks alot like a lab to be fair from joe public- especially those with dogs.


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## CorvusCorax (27 June 2011)

Yeah, don't be so sensitive, none of us get over-protective of our dogs and none of us feel hurt when people think badly about them when they don't even know them 

Lexie, it's just part of life sometimes, people judge on sight and sight alone, like others say, some people just don't like certain types of dogs (my neighbours are a bit scared/wary of B, they're collie people, but they are glad he is here because he makes a racket at the slightest sign of anything suspicious ) there's lots of places that are out of bounds to us for large parts of the year because of their livestock but it's just life.

Look on the bright side, roadwork is great for building muscle (for humans and dogs ) and some of the places you go in the car will be much nicer.

It's lovely to have easy dogs, but in a year's time, when you are a much more experienced and capable handler than most people will ever be, you're both super skinny minnies from all that hard work you'll have done, you'll look back at this and smile, and maybe be able to convince and show the landowner that Dex isn't a bad spud after all!


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## lexiedhb (27 June 2011)

Thanks CC.


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## SusieT (27 June 2011)

Unless you are on a public right of way you have absoloutely no right to be on his land and he has every right to tell you to bog off and I am fully on his side-you would not be pleased if he was on your land without permission and doing something you didn't like to boot (he doesn't like your dog evidently, not your/dogs fault but he is entitled to his opinion-it may be that he lets those who he does not have a problem be walk on his land). Check where the right of way is, then feel free to continue using it.


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## Dobiegirl (27 June 2011)

I for one dont believe he is the landowner it just dosnt ring true to me. Maybe your dog did frighten him (his appearance I mean) but its bad enough when the public are prejudiced  but I would have hoped other members on this forum were better informed.

Dont have a problem with the public walking on our land if it is a responsible dog owner who clears up behind them. We must be very opened minded around here because the other local farmers are the same.

I still think you should try and find out who owns it.


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## mystiandsunny (27 June 2011)

It's his land.  I'm sorry he doesn't like your dog, but it's his land.  You'd still be free to walk the right of way.


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## lexiedhb (27 June 2011)

I am going to try (although I do not have anyway of knowing who the man in the woods was!!! - and also see if in fact where I was IS a right of way as that part is more like a gravel track. Will still walk through "his" woods though (on the bit I know IS a footpath).


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## CAYLA (27 June 2011)

Dear lord, whoever the hells land it was, he was an knobber, the way he spoke....not on, and heis damn well lucky that was you and not me, cos I can tell you (I would not be the one on tears) thats for sure.......we have been stopped before (once) to say we where on private land.......in the following manor "Hi, guys not sure of you knew this is private land, and there are cattle running lose, even thought you maybe not beable to see them".......OH replied "no problem" we had a DDB x, 2 weimeraners and a boxer with us.

Had the gentleman that stopped us, spoke to me like that/the way he did to you, I would have gone down this throat, and probably goaded him somemore, by asking him to actually "remove me" physically if he wanted me gone!! Im affraid I have a full on temper on me.
If they are polite, fair play, if not, fair game
To boot, he was ignorant to let his dog barge up to yours, his land or not, being an ass wipe like that, the dog is gonna get bitten one of these days, be it a staff type not.


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## Dobiegirl (27 June 2011)

Cant believe there is so much get off my landitis. A few years ago a good friend of mine(she owns 3 farms) were walking on our land and strayed into someone field, it was all of half an acre and this man came out and said get off my land. We burst out laughing and left but still laughing because this man regularly exercises his dogs on our land.


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## lexiedhb (27 June 2011)

CAYLA said:



			Dear lord, whoever the hells land it was, he was an knobber, the way he spoke....not on, and heis damn well lucky that was you and not me, cos I can tell you (I would not be the one on tears) thats for sure.......we have been stopped before (once) to say we where on private land.......in the following manor "Hi, guys not sure of you knew this is private land, and there are cattle running lose, even thought you maybe not beable to see them".......OH replied "no problem" we had a DDB x, 2 weimeraners and a boxer with us.

Had the gentleman that stopped us, spoke to me like that/the way he did to you, I would have gone down this throat, and probably goaded him somemore, by asking him to actually "remove me" physically if he wanted me gone!! Im affraid I have a full on temper on me.
If they are polite, fair play, if not, fair game
To bott, he was ignorant to let his dog barge up to yours, hsi land or not, being an ass wipe like that, the dog is gonna get bitten one of these days, be it a staff type not.
		
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This^^^^^ is pretty much, is what a mate of mine has just said---- I should have asked him to prove he was the land owner and when he couldnt told him to jog on...... easy in hindsight though!!!

I did say if he had just said "please dont walk here it is my land and private" I would have been aploagetic......


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## CAYLA (27 June 2011)

lexiedhb said:



			This^^^^^ is pretty much, is what a mate of mine has just said---- I should have asked him to prove he was the land owner and when he couldnt told him to jog on...... easy in hindsight though!!!

I did say if he had just said "please dont walk here it is my land and private" I would have been aploagetic......
		
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Too right.....I read some of the crap folk put up with on walks on here and the way they are spoken too which is not on AT ALL, an think, jeeysus, I would flip.


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## ThePinkPony (27 June 2011)

Yeah, he may have been a prick, but if its his land then you have to get off, or risk getting prosecuted for trespassing.

Regardless of breed (personally id rather a breed like that on ours rather than nutty spanners/labs/lurchers) You have no right to be there, wether its fenced or not.

When We come across people like you (well,  the ruder,  more obstinate kind with ''roaming rights'' spouting out of their mouths) it is incredibly frustrating as really, they are in the wrong. Sod well worn paths, You/they wouldnt be very impressed if OH  and I rocked up to your garden with our dogs and had a little jolly through there. We dont want an argument, we just dont want you there, for whatever reason. 

Usually that is the answer to anyone who gets shirty, ''were do you live''? And i know of people who have done just that.


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## lexiedhb (27 June 2011)

When you come accross people "like me"??? What ones that if told politely that this land is private and I shouldnt be there are apolagetic???????

All the refs to gardens are a bit daft really in that my garden has a 6ft fence all round it- so folk cant get in- he could do this with his wood if he so wished, would defo keep folk out.


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## Dobiegirl (27 June 2011)

Pink Pony have you any idea how arrogant your post sounded


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## Spudlet (27 June 2011)

Dobiegirl said:



			Cant believe there is so much get off my landitis.
		
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Did you not realise that anyone who doesn't own land is considered scum on HHO? I'm amazed any of them manage to even SPEAK to us peasants who actually need to use footpaths and rights of way **shudders** I expect some of 'em need counselling or a stiff drink to get over the shock of it.

Sorry you were upset Lexie, yeah IF he is the landowner (love how people are just assuming he's telling the truth about that) he has the right to not allow people to walk there, but there's no need for anyone to be an arse about an honest mistake. Good manners cost nothing y'know, even for landowners - oh I'm sorry, I mean Gods!


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## ThePinkPony (27 June 2011)

lexiedhb said:



			When you come accross people "like me"??? What ones that if told politely that this land is private and I shouldnt be there are apolagetic??????? *i just meant people who have a problem with being asked not to be somewhere, we have to because of pheasants and livestock   not in a mean way*

All the refs to gardens are a bit daft really in that my garden has a 6ft fence all round it- so folk cant get in- he could do this with his wood if he so wished, would defo keep folk out.
		
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please dont read this as if im getting narky because im not, read it in a calm collected tone.

But thats exactly like walking up into some random persons garden and when they say ''erm, wtf are you doing?' you saying.. ''well, if you dont want me in here,  put up a fence''

He shouldnt have to,  people should just respect that they cant just walk everywhere, because it bite everyone else in the ass. 

For example, we live between two estates, now it would be really helpful if i could take pink for in hand hacks on estate two, as its got nice tracks and things, but because some moron horserider decided one day that they could go wherever they like, now, even though  i  have asked he wont let me go in there in case other people see me and take it upon themselves to tramp through his land.

We get alot of dickheads who shout the odds and can get vicious over ''their rights', who can be very intimidating,  hence why now we have a bloody great rottieX chained up so noone can trespass my garden to get onto the estate. 

People just dont listen, ive explained to people that this estate is footpath free and they cannot go down there, ive explained to great lengths that if their dog even so much as frightens a pheasant it risks getting bulletted, but some people (not you-some people-and its all asked extremely politely) really have a chip on their shoulder about their right  to roam, nothing will put  them off.


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## ThePinkPony (27 June 2011)

Dobiegirl said:



			Pink Pony have you any idea how arrogant your post sounded

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Sorry its not meant to be arrogant, and it isnt OUR owned land,  but as keepers of it, we are responsible for putting people straight. 

Today we had walkers not on a footpath, this is, they were not 100 yards from one, luckily these people were nice, and it was raining and were more than happy to be put on the path home, but id say thats a small percentage.

On a shoot day last season OH had a labrador running through a game crop just befor they shot his drive, believe it or not, that could cost him his job, Its probably the one time ive seen him go ballistic, apart from one other time, on a shoot day,  similar thing. Owner was a ****, said he did nothing wrong and would continue to do so,  so OH said if he saw that dog chasing pheasant again,  he would shoot it. the bloke's not been back. 

And its not because of the demeanor of OH or I or anyone else on the estate, we are all very polite when we see people,  after all, we dont want a fight.


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## Ranyhyn (27 June 2011)

You know what I think you should do?  Buy a bottle of wine/cake/make something/a bone for their dog - find out who they are (that will be easy) and go round, be friendly and ask again in a less high octane situation (maybe taking Dex and making sure he behaves) if you can walk there.  YES it might irk you and YES you do have a right of way - but, you get more bees with honey.. 

My OH has to put up with some shite on his land - and that can make people less forgiving to the genuine people.  They may have had a bad day - a bad dog on dog experience etc etc so maybe just go back and address the situation with a clear head.

After all it'd be a shame to lose the resource and an angry landowner is not the best advertisement for your dog, if you don't sort it out properly now you'll have every landowner in the area eyeballing you and your "fighting dog" ..


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## ThePinkPony (27 June 2011)

just to add, last year we had  10 different sheep attacks on the estate, makes you very wary of loose dogs.


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## lexiedhb (27 June 2011)

Hmmmmmm my dog was not loose?!!

Now everyone is talking about land owners, estates and farmers and the like- this I would imagine is either a pocket of woodland that someone owns, or it may be attached to a house somewhere (but the house is not visible from this part of wood)- this is a fairly built up area!!

and no idea how to go about finding out who the owner is- or if indeed this man is the owner..... Have never ever seen him there before....


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## Ranyhyn (27 June 2011)

I would think if he does own that land - any local pub or indeed local farmer will know who he is  and if he doesn't own it - well the owner will be interested to hear about it and you'll be forewared the next time you meet


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## ThePinkPony (27 June 2011)

Well really i should be saying  'well just steer clear' BUt if its such an integral part of Dex's walk then i would probably carry on and if i saw him again take it from there.. He does sound like a prick.

BV is right though,  more flies with honey and all that. Ask around locally if anyone knows him, farmers seem to be the authority on every land owner for miles around.

OH met a really nice guy a couple of weeks after we moved here, who happened to walk his dogs through the bottom of a release pen. He was so nice when OH explained why him walking there would cause problems that Oh got him in the landy and took  him on a route around the pen on the boundary, so he could walk a long walk with his dog and dog in OHs pheasants at the same time. If the guy had been a bellend Oh wouldnt have gone out of his way like that. Walkers CAN be a great help, or a massive hindrance.

So sorry if i sounded bitchy of sharp, really wasnt meaning to be.


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## Ranyhyn (27 June 2011)

BV *cries*...


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## cptrayes (27 June 2011)

CaveCanem said:



			CP for goodness sake, he is not a fighting dog, he is a pet.
		
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The dog's breeding on both sides, Staffie and Ridgeback is renowned for aggression. Some staffies are bred around here to fight and a poster on this forum last year posted how the family ridgeback had just been put down because it bit a child who was play fighting with "its" little girl. The ridgeback that attacked my horse was being walked by a female neighbour of mine and she could not hold it, it pulled the lead out of her hands and went for my horse's throat.

The owner of the land is not to know how gentle or otherwise the dog is, (bearing in mind also that the OP has posted for advice how to stop it biting her). All he sees is an overexcited dog which is of breeding he considers is  likely to be aggressive. Why should he not be genuinely afraid? 

Is no-one on this thread prepared to believe that the man did actually feel threatened by this dog? A big ginger ridgeback/staffie cross, admittedly in an over-excited state? It would have scared me.

OP I think you may need to muzzle the dog in public just to make people feel safer, whether the dog actually needs the muzzle or not.


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## SusieT (27 June 2011)

Why does someone who has paid money for private land have to be remotely nice to anyone found on their land? Or let them on it? Or have to pay for a lot of fencing to keep people off? Why not just respect where you are supposed to go? Or the landowner (if it was the landowner) could well go and start kicking up a fuss about other rights of way on his land if there is a chronic nuisance problem and get really aggressive and try to block of ROW leading to whole other issues


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## CorvusCorax (27 June 2011)

No one is saying this bloke was not scared.

'Some' staffies around your way are bred to fight. Not all of them are. I've been bitten on the face by a Rough Collie (Lassie) and so has the daughter of a forum member.
The ridgeback mentioned on this forum attacked a visiting child if I recall correctly. Still not right, but it's good to get the facts straight.
First time I've heard Ridgeys are renowned for aggression.
There used to be one who lived in the village we used to live in, used to have the run of the place, would wait at the bus stop twice a day for 'his' kid, all us kids loved him and he loved us.

You're a cat person, right? 

That was the owner's bad, sorry to hear about your horse. My dog comes up to my hip, a lot of men can't hold him. I now make sure that I can and so does the OP, by the sounds of it 

I think Boogaloovoaglogakitty  has the best idea so far.


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## henryhorn (27 June 2011)

I agree he was unnecessarily rude but if it's his private land, sorry, walk elsewhere. 
It's a bit like someone deciding to walk through your garden and making your dog bark, he may well have bought the land to ensure privacy for himself just as you have your garden for your dog to use.. Saying fence it isn't fair either, the onus is on you to make sure you can walk there. 
The fuss he made does make me wonder if it is indeed his, a few local enquiries down the nearest pub will no doubt give you that info. 
Otherwise if you aren't worried about a further encounter walk so early he won't be about, but expect him to be even crosser if he catches you again...


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## cptrayes (27 June 2011)

I think perhaps dog owners need to be aware that whilst YOU know that you can hold your dog, and that even if it pulled free it would lick you to death, nobody else does. And that there are an awful lot of people who are actually scared of dogs, especially powerful muscular ones like the OP's dog.


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## CorvusCorax (27 June 2011)

I am not disputing that, see first line of my last post (and it does not apply to me personally as I do not walk on disputed land, I walk wherever I have permission to be and have my dogs under control)

Notice you didn't address any of my other points, like suggesting the OP owns a 'fighting dog', the inference being she is engaged in illegal activity. 
You don't like Ridgeys because of your experiences, fair enough, what do you think people would say if I came on here and said 'all Lassie dogs are face-biting lunatics' on the strength of two incidents? They would think it was a daft thing to say.

Lots of immature, over-excitable dogs leap up and nip/grab arms, you only have to look at the posts on here about it, doesn't mean they are all unmitigated killers, they have no hands, they cannot speak, they do it to get attention, it is rude, yes, but not a sign that the dog is evil.


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## cptrayes (27 June 2011)

Cavecanem my post was not directly to you and I am not answering anything else I have not answered already because you have already suggested that I wrote things that I have not, so there is no point.  You sound, to be honest, like you are looking for a fight.

I'd just repeat my point. Just because you know that your lovely big alsation is safe when you are walking it, no-one else does. In the case of the OP a man sounds like he was genuinely scared by her dog, exercised his right to ask her not to come onto his land with it and in return has been described by her as a "tit" on a public forum.

Nice.


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## Fii (27 June 2011)

My advice, for what it's worth, would be to get a map of your local footpaths and bridle ways. These maps have numbers on the foorpaths, check which one you are on, then phone your council, they should be able to tell you who owns the land.
 Then armed with your map, and your infomation on the landowner, you will know were you stand (walk )!
 And i don't agree with the other poster who advised you to muzzle your dog wether he needs it or not, in my mind that would create more fear in the dog from strangers!


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## CorvusCorax (27 June 2011)

I'm not looking for a fight. You did call the OP's dog a 'fighting dog', it's there in black and...beige  which was extremely unfair IMO.
And it seems to me like you are a cat person, who doesn't like big dogs like Rhodesian Ridgebacks and German Shepherds, fair enough  
I do take your point about people being scared of dogs, I have said that twice now and we are going round and round in circles.

To be fair, it is not the first time a person has been upset and come on this forum for a rant, it has developed into a multi-pager and the OP has then calmed down - hopefully the OP will take B-DC's advice and maybe check if this man is indeed the landowner and try to get off on a better foot.


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## lexiedhb (28 June 2011)

Lets just get a few things straight- ANY dog is capable of aggression, only dog i have ever been bitten by was a spaniel- does not mean i avoid them like the plague, as I am intelligent enough to think "deed not breed", and not tar all dogs of the same breed with the same brush- same as i do not dislike ALL teenage boys, just the ones who make a god awful noise outside the house at 2am.

He will not be muzzled- he does not need it- if I thought he did I would- but I am not muzzling my dog because You are scared. If I was scared of a dog I saw I would walk the other way, or cross the road, or avoid..... as it would be MY problem I was scared, not the dogs (when the dog has done nothing wrong!).

Anyway enough of this..... have been researching the footpaths and it seems that I may well have a right to be where I was anyway!


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## ThePinkPony (28 June 2011)

lexiedhb said:



			Lets just get a few things straight- ANY dog is capable of aggression, only dog i have ever been bitten by was a spaniel- does not mean i avoid them like the plague, as I am intelligent enough to think "deed not breed", and not tar all dogs of the same breed with the same brush- same as i do not dislike ALL teenage boys, just the ones who make a god awful noise outside the house at 2am. *to be honest,  wouldnt give a fig about the breed, around here its all crazy spaniels that have been bought because one owning a spaniel sounds posher than most, and they are all kempt up all day and then let loose on our little poultlets  and i too have seen far more vicious spaniels and labs than bull breeds*

He will not be muzzled- he does not need it- if I thought he did I would- but I am not muzzling my dog because You are scared. If I was scared of a dog I saw I would walk the other way, or cross the road, or avoid..... as it would be MY problem I was scared, not the dogs (when the dog has done nothing wrong!). *agree, if the dogs not dangerous why should you have to, i wouldnt put on any of my dogs*

Anyway enough of this..... have been researching the footpaths and it seems that I may well have a right to be where I was anyway!
		
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Make sure its an official foot path, if it hasnt got OS or something like that then you still dont have legal rights to it as its more a made up one that people use all the time. Footpath signs arent moderated by the council as such so dont just go by those.


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## lexiedhb (28 June 2011)

No no- been looking on the OS map.....


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## Spudlet (28 June 2011)

SusieT said:



			Why does someone who has paid money for private land have to be remotely nice to anyone found on their land? Or let them on it? Or have to pay for a lot of fencing to keep people off? Why not just respect where you are supposed to go? Or the landowner (if it was the landowner) could well go and start kicking up a fuss about other rights of way on his land if there is a chronic nuisance problem and get really aggressive and try to block of ROW leading to whole other issues
		
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Because, SusieT, good manners and basic courtesy cost nothing and make the world a nicer place to live in. Rude people are a blight on society, and rudeness achieves nothing other than to show the rude person's lack of education and class.


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## sywell (28 June 2011)

If you go off the public footpath you are in the wrong. On the ROW you are allowed to pass and repass and stop to eat your lunch. You may go off the path to go around an obstruction. If you are harrased by someone and you feel you are in the right complain to the police we had one farmer done under stalking legislation


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## Maesfen (28 June 2011)

Spudlet said:



			Because, SusieT, good manners and basic courtesy cost nothing and make the world a nicer place to live in..
		
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This does also apply to those who knowingly trespass on private land as well thinking they have a perfect right to be there of course; it is rude and ignorant to say the least plus extremely frustrating to the land owner.

That was not accusing LB as she now seems to think she does have rights there according to her map which is good news, I'm just stating the fact that it does work both ways.  
You wouldn't tolerate anyone in your garden without permission and just because it's a larger tract of land/woodland doesn't make any difference to how you should treat the person who owns it if you're on their land without permission.  
Treat others as you would like them to treat you is a good creed as at least then, you have the moral high ground if nothing else.


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## marmalade76 (28 June 2011)

sywell said:



			If you go off the public footpath you are in the wrong. On the ROW you are allowed to pass and repass and stop to eat your lunch. You may go off the path to go around an obstruction. If you are harrased by someone and you feel you are in the right complain to the police we had one farmer done under stalking legislation
		
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Oooo, do tell us more!


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## lexiedhb (28 June 2011)

I was not knowingly trespassing at all- sign at the beginning of the path clearly says FOOTPATH- the path goes round in a circle, as well as straight on- with no more signs- so assumed that all of it was a footpath, which I now think it may well be (depends which map you look at).


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## Devonshire dumpling (28 June 2011)

lexiedhb said:



			I was not knowingly trespassing at all- sign at the beginning of the path clearly says FOOTPATH- the path goes round in a circle, as well as straight on- with no more signs- so assumed that all of it was a footpath, which I now think it may well be (depends which map you look at).
		
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Poor you Lexie as usual the thread goes off on a tangent with opinionated people!  Your dog sounds a gem, let us know how you get on xx


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## EAST KENT (28 June 2011)

You never know..maybe the land OWNER was planning on releasing pheasants into that wood,either way it is his land.Check your OS map to be sure of your rights,and have the path number wriiten down,back of your hand is great,can`t lose that,just in case.
   I own a few acres too..and no footpaths go through it,in fact would`nt have bought it if they had.And I too would resent dog walkers on my property which my money has paid for.
   On the other hand ,used to live near a huge shooting estate and that keeper soon realised that me quietly riding around was an extra pair of eyes..kept to the bridleways though!


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## cptrayes (28 June 2011)

lexiedhb said:



			He will not be muzzled- he does not need it- if I thought he did I would- but I am not muzzling my dog because You are scared. If I was scared of a dog I saw I would walk the other way, or cross the road, or avoid..... as it would be MY problem I was scared, not the dogs (when the dog has done nothing wrong!).
		
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You attitude explains completely why you had trouble with this man. The dog may not "need" a muzzle, but if people are genuinely scared of him then YOU need him to have a muzzle on, so that other people do not give you the grief that you feel you experienced in the wood.

The dog has done nothing wrong and it is not his fault that he is bred to look like the kind of dog that drug dealers in Moss Side use to protect themselves. But  he DOES look that way, especially with two harnesses on, and it is not the fault of people who are not big-strong-dog people if they find that scaring, particularly as he is, by your own description, liable to get overexcited.

It matters not one jot that YOU know that you can control him. Other people in a public place are afraid that you cannot, and for the meanwhile, until he is calmer in public, you would  be doing your civic duty if you muzzled him while he is out on a walk with you.

If you don't, please don't be surprised if you have a visit from the Police because people are accusing you of having a dangerous dog, because from what you have written here it will be only your own fault. One person has warned you that he feels threatened by your dog. Men often don't like to admit weakness, and this man's "aggression" towards you was quite possibly a cover for the fact that he felt a bit of a prat to be worried by your dog. I think you need to get off your high horse and listen and do whatever is necessary to stop any more people feeling the same way.


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## Maesfen (28 June 2011)

Agree with every word you have just posted CPT


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## mollichop (28 June 2011)

cptrayes - You are turning this into a dangerous dog/control issue when neither is the case here as Lexie has stressed many times.

The issue is public rights of way - not how some man may or may not have felt threatened by her dog.

I also have a Ridgeback cross and it's attitudes like yours that are dangerous - not the dogs themselves.

So, as Lexie is researching whether she is legally entitled to be in that part of the owned wood, the fact that YOU think her dog should be muzzled is irrelevent.


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## lexiedhb (28 June 2011)

Me get off my high horse? really?

As Molli has just said this was not about about the breed of dog I have, YOUR opinion of said dog, either dogs behaviour, but about rights of way- so please stick to the topic, if of course you have anything constructive to say.

At least I have learnt something from all this- and that is NEVER to post an issue on this forum again as those who have nowt constructive to say, and turn threads into what they "think" they have read, whilst actually being offensive with it, ruin any decent advise that is being given....... which is a shame.


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## lexiedhb (28 June 2011)

deleted as posted twice


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## cptrayes (28 June 2011)

You have rejected my constructive advice to muzzle your dog in public until he is calmer. What harm will it do him? It is purely a point of principle that you refuse to do so.

It is irrelevant whether you were on a footpath or not. 

You have no right to walk a dog that other people feel threatened by on an open street, footpath or anyone else's land. People have to feel safe with your dog or they will report him. 

You will have no-one to blame but yourself if you find yourself being harassed by Police following up complaints from locals in your area.

Lexie your definition of "decent" advice seems to be "advice that I like". So I agree with you that you should not post on an open forum if you only want to hear people agree with you. You really do need to look at your own attitude here - was it necessary to describe the man as a "tit"? 

I'm sorry Mollichop but you are completely writing off the possibility that the man was genuinely afraid. This IS about fear of a dog being dangerous, whether it is actually dangerous or not. And how can my own attitude, that dogs can scare people even if the owner knows they are safe, possibly be "dangerous"?


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## jrp204 (28 June 2011)

Devonshire dumpling said:



			Poor you Lexie as usual the thread goes off on a tangent with opinionated people!  Your dog sounds a gem, let us know how you get on xx
		
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Thats the trouble with forums, people have opinions. You post a ?/observation and people give their opinion, trouble is they're not always the ones you want to hear!!


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## Spudlet (28 June 2011)

For goodness sake. Lexie don't concern yourself about muzzling him. There are perfectly reasons not to:

1. He doesn't need one It would be like putting a gag bit onto a tiny little plodder that had never misbehaved in its life, because you thought it looked prettier.
2. People (those that can tell the difference between a muzzle and a headcollar - see below) will react to him differently, thus setting his socialisation back, for the sake of appearance rather than utility.
3. Most numpties that would demand a safe dog be muzzled wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a headcollar and a muzzle anyway so they probably think he is already muzzled

The police have far better things to do than pander to people's neuroses, frankly, so don't concern yourself about the forum hysterics either.

BTW, my dog barks at other dogs when he's on the leash and the other dog has a go - should I muzzle him, or just take him out back and shoot him now...?


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## lexiedhb (28 June 2011)

cptrayes said:



			You have rejected my constructive advice to muzzle your dog in public until he is calmer. What harm will it do him? It is purely a point of principle that you refuse to do so.

It is irrelevant whether you were on a footpath or not. 

You have no right to walk a dog that other people feel threatened by on an open street, footpath or anyone else's land. People have to feel safe with your dog or they will report him. 

You will have no-one to blame but yourself if you find yourself being harassed by Police following up complaints from locals in your area.

Lexie your definition of "decent" advice seems to be "advice that I like". So I agree with you that you should not post on an open forum if you only want to hear people agree with you. You really do need to look at your own attitude here - was it necessary to describe the man as a "tit"?  And how can my own attitude, that dogs can scare people even if the owner knows they are safe, possibly be "dangerous"? 

I'm sorry Mollichop but you are completely writing off the possibility that the man was genuinely afraid. This IS about fear of a dog being dangerous, whether it is actually dangerous or not.
		
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My original QUESTION was regards to whether YOU would still carry on walking there so how is being on/off a foot path irrelevant? it is what the blumming thread is about!!!- nothing more nothing less- so DECENT advise to me would be, yes but after finding out who owns the land and maybe taking him a cake- not "you own a fighting dog get it muzzled in public" as as you can see this does not answer the question, therefore is not decent advice. Also YOUR attitude to Ridgeback's is TOTALLY irrelevant.

I have not taken ANY offence to those saying "he is right, get off his blumming land" as can TOTALLY see where they are coming from- if in fact it is not a footpath- I have no right to be there.

I was upset/hurt and angry with the way he had spoken to me so yes in my eyes is a "tit" whether in the right or not......


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## cptrayes (28 June 2011)

You are posting on an open forum, a thread can go in whatever direction anyone wants to take it. 

If the path is a footpath you still do not have a right to walk a dog on it if other people feel threatened by it.  So my constructive advice to you would be to stay off footpaths or anywhere anyone can feel threatened by your dog until it is calmer. And if you can't get him calmer without taking him out in public for experience, to muzzle him when you do. 

You have rehomed a dog which by your own description resembles a ginger oversized Staffordshire Bull Terrier. You'd better get used to people reacting as if he can be aggressive, even if he's not. That kind of dog is not chosen by drug barons in Moss Side for nothing, it is because their very appearance suggests the availability of aggression. 

People who do not know dogs, people who know them and dislike them, and people who like only playful poodles and spaniels are always going to be afraid of your dog.


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## ThePinkPony (28 June 2011)

cptrayes said:



			You have rejected my constructive advice to muzzle your dog in public until he is calmer. What harm will it do him? It is purely a point of principle that you refuse to do so.

It is irrelevant whether you were on a footpath or not. 

You have no right to walk a dog that other people feel threatened by on an open street, footpath or anyone else's land. People have to feel safe with your dog or they will report him. 

You will have no-one to blame but yourself if you find yourself being harassed by Police following up complaints from locals in your area.

Lexie your definition of "decent" advice seems to be "advice that I like". So I agree with you that you should not post on an open forum if you only want to hear people agree with you. You really do need to look at your own attitude here - was it necessary to describe the man as a "tit"? 

I'm sorry Mollichop but you are completely writing off the possibility that the man was genuinely afraid. This IS about fear of a dog being dangerous, whether it is actually dangerous or not. And how can my own attitude, that dogs can scare people even if the owner knows they are safe, possibly be "dangerous"?
		
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No CpTrayes you are wrong there. Just because the dog may initmidate some people is no reason to have to muzzle a dog, simply because of its appearance. If anything i would say that bull breeds  should maybe be muzzled  as a bite from their jaws is completely different from that of a much weaker dogs jaws.

Saying that, i was bitten by a ''lovely'' golden retriever when i was eight, does that mean every retriever owner shoul muzzle their dog as i may be intimidated by it? No not at all. If OP hadnt even mentioned her dogs breed we would be having this conversation.


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## Spudlet (28 June 2011)

Tell me, CPTrayes, why is it that every thread I ever see you post on seems to go in the direction of a blazing row? Is that always the direction you wish to take them in?


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## lexiedhb (28 June 2011)

cptrayes said:



			You are posting on an open forum, a thread can go in whatever direction anyone wants to take it. 

If the path is a footpath you still do not have a right to walk a dog on it if other people feel threatened by it.  So my constructive advice to you would be to stay off footpaths or anywhere anyone can feel threatened by your dog until it is calmer. And if you can't get him calmer without taking him out in public for experience, to muzzle him when you do. 

You have rehomed a dog which by your own description resembles a ginger oversized Staffordshire Bull Terrier. You'd better get used to people reacting as if he can be aggressive, even if he's not. That kind of dog is not chosen by drug barons in Moss Side for nothing, it is because their very appearance suggests the availability of aggression. 

People who do not know dogs, people who know them and dislike them, and people who like only playful poodles and spaniels are always going to be afraid of your dog.
		
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Ohhhhh you just changed that post --- was wondering what your theories are regarding my choice of dog .

if you must know he was the one who had been in kennels the longest and was most needing of a home- nothing more nothing less

The insinuation that all ridgebacks are aggressive and all poodles/spaniels are playful is also just daft.....

Oh and I did not mention his breed in the OP- someone trawled back through my previous posts!


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## TED2010 (28 June 2011)

Thought I would have my two pence worth whilst trying not to offend anyone!!   Firstly, I have a 2 yr, 3 mth old ridgeback.  She is the most submissive, non agressive dog I have ever owned, I also have a jack russell which I am far less trusting of with other dogs. I have previously had labradors and spaniels.  My ridgeback has been attacked by two collies which sent her running for her life onto a road, a German Shepard where she just lay down and took it crying and was trying to get back to me to protect her and two fox coloured labradors which live over the road which are very agressive and a mastif type dog which came running out of the open door of a house and attacked her.  So far I have escaped vets bills and it hasn't turned her into an agressive dog although she will start to bark if dogs come running towards her unexpectantly.  My father in law has spaniels which growl at you and my sister in law has been bitten by one of them.  So please don't judge ridgebacks, all breeds of dog can be aggressive depending on their breeding/the way they have been treated or raised.

Secondly, my family own some land with some woodland adjoining it.  There are no public footpaths through the land.  We put up private land signs, which get ripped down unless we put them 20ft up on the trees.  People seem to think they have the right to just walk through our woods and across our land as if it were a public park.  The issues we have had are rubbish being left behind where kids come and camp and leave all their beer cans and bbqs behind.  Dog poo and lots of it! Left in the middle of the tracks, I have no children yet but i have lots of nieces and nephews who play in the woods and we have horses and ride in them regularly and its not pleasant.  My father was bitten by a dog which went for him while he was working in the woods and my dogs have been attacked by other peoples while I have been walking in our woods! Horses have been frightened by people trekking through their fields with mountain bikes!? Is it any wonder we put signs up saying private property, no unauthorised access? 

I am not having a go at the OP as she had her dog on a lead and sounds as if she was in control and if the footpath signs are not clear then it would be understandable if she had wandered off the footpath.  The polite thing that the landowner could have explained was that she had left the public footpath and was now on his private land and please not to come this way in future.  If people come and ask us if they can walk in the woods then generally we say yes but we ask them to pick up their dog mess and ensure their dogs are strictly under control and kept on leads if necessary and then we know who they are.  

If more people judges less and perhaps had more respect for other peoples property maybe their would be less disputes and the world would be a better place!


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## CorvusCorax (28 June 2011)

Right, so because some wazzocks like a certain type of dogs because it makes them look hard, no one else should own that type of dog, ever?
There are standard poodles training for protection work in the UK by the way 
And some mini poodles can be snappy little shites.

Some people are scared and wary of horses, with little or no base, a horse can kill you with one kick, does that mean that riders have no right to hack on the open road?

I do love the 'I can't understand why anyone would want to own that sort of dog' train of thought.
I can't understand why anyone would want to own a cat   but hey, people do, I have to respect their wishes.


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## ThePinkPony (28 June 2011)

CaveCanem said:



			Right, so because some wazzocks like a certain type of dogs because it makes them look hard, no one else should own that type of dog, ever?
There are standard poodles training for protection work in the UK by the way 
And some mini poodles can be snappy little shites.

Some people are scared and wary of horses, with little or no base, a horse can kill you with one kick, does that mean that riders have no right to hack on the open road?

I do love the 'I can't understand why anyone would want to own that sort of dog' train of thought.
I can't understand why anyone would want to own a cat   but hey, people do, I have to respect their wishes.
		
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Ive met AOT of breeds of dogs, never met a nice poodle! wouldnt want to be left in a room with either standard  or mini. MUZZLE THEM ALL


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## Spudlet (28 June 2011)

ThePinkPony said:



			Ive met AOT of breeds of dogs, never met a nice poodle! wouldnt want to be left in a room with either standard  or mini. MUZZLE THEM ALL  

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Oh no, we have a very cool little poodle that comes to training sometimes. Now the owners (with the exception of this lady)... that's another story - muzzle THEM!

I have a morbid terror of shetland ponies, so the next time I see one out on a lead rein hack I will be sure to verbally abuse the person leading and demand the pony only be taken out hobbled. I should be able to walk with fear of having my knees bitten by the horrid little furballs

Also, I hear that coloured cobs are very much favoured by some people that some other people like to stereotype as thieves rolleyes, so next time I see anyone riding one I will be forced to drag them from the saddle and make a citizens' arrest - they're bound to have done _something_, after all


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## Gladioli (28 June 2011)

cptrayes said:



			You have no right to walk a dog that other people feel threatened by on an open street, footpath or anyone else's land. People have to feel safe with your dog or they will report him.
		
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Yay, does this mean I can get all of the people around here that walk their little rats on leads that bark and strain at their lead at me to muzzle them as genuinely I feel threatened by them? 

Probably not as people's prejudice does not apply to them.  

OP - back to the point - if it is his land and he has asked you to stay off it then you should however I would be questioning if the land was his. The local pub is probably a fountain of knowledge as to who owns the land.

Also keep working with the pooch and hopefully he will get less dog reactive as time goes on.  

A x


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## MurphysMinder (28 June 2011)

I've tried to keep out of this as I can see things from both sides, but this is getting a bit silly now.  People have been scared of my breed for all the time I have had them, unfortunately they had the bad publicity that anything vaguely staffy looking seems to get now.  I have never muzzled them, and do not keep them away from busy areas, in contrast I have always made a point of taking them in such places, and if people are scared of them I will do my level best to persuade them to meet my dogs and realise they are not going to eat them.  You would be amazing how many people soon come round, have you ever met examples of the types of dog you seemed to be afraid of cpt, it might make you think differently.  Fair enough if a dog is behaving in a dangerous way report it, but not because you don't feel safe just because of the way it looks.
Re the footpath situation, I am sure if it is a public right of way no one can dictate what dogs are walked there, and certainly they can't on an open street. There is a public footpath runs through the field I rent, I have asked people to put their dogs on lead if they are running around the field as I worry that they will chase the horses, but other than that I don't bother if people stray off the path a bit.  However if they came right across the field and onto my land then I would ask them not to do it again, regardless of what dog they had.


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## Dobiegirl (28 June 2011)

I cant believe how nasty this thread has got, Lexie dont muzzle your dog, YOU dont have a problem.
Walking DieselDobe) up the road last week practising our heeling and met a man on his own no dog walking towards me. The minute he spots Diesel he heads for a field gate climbed over and stood and watched us pass, I said good afternoon and he mumbled something. I went up to the corner and turned round and headed for home man just ahead of us he turned round spotted us and broke into a trot. Diesel was beginning to get suspicious at this stage and I had a job to keep him to heel and was starting to grow tall, at this point we got to the bottom of our drive and we went up. Now this man was probabley scared of my dog so should I muzzle him in future. Not a chance Diesel was under control at all times and was just exhibiting normal suspicious behaviour.


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## cptrayes (28 June 2011)

I am not afraid of any particular type of dog. This is not about ME. This is about a man in a wood, whether it was his own wood or not, who has told the poster that he was afraid of the dog. 

The OP felt the man was aggressive and yet almost no-one seemed prepared to consider that this man was genuinely afraid of her dog.

And if he was, so will other people be.  It matters not one jot whether this fear is justified or not. A stranger has no way of knowing that the dog is safe. Their first reaction is likely to be that if the dog needs two harnesses, then it's not safe.

And if the OP gets arsey with anyone who dares criticise her dog, as it she seems likely, from calling him a "tit" on here, that she did with the man in the wood, then she's going to be very unpopular in her neighbourhood and she can expect people to complain about her dog.

People are prejudiced about that kind of dog. It isn't fair. It isn't justified. But it's life and the OP is going to have to learn to live with it because that's the type of dog she's rehomed. 

Perhaps this dog just isn't ready yet for the big wide world and needs introducing to life at dog training  classes? Maybe he is already getting those,  I don't know.


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## lexiedhb (28 June 2011)

I did not get arsey with the man in the wood- as you can see from the conversation written. I was on the brink of tears (also as written in the OP) - quite hard to be seriously arsey with somone when upset.

If people critisise my dog who is on a lead at all times, for no reason then I feel I actually have a right to get arsey, but as you can see from my original OP I did not- I got upset.

Dog training classes you say? why didnt I think of that?  We go religiously every week....... (once again you edit your post)

If you think I am keeping a high energy dog inside and only attending training class then ummm you must be mad- he would go stir crazy- as would pretty much any dog, and do him absolutely NO good at all.


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## Dobiegirl (28 June 2011)

I think your thread is flawed because you are making assumptions about how someone else was feeling. How do you know what someone else is feeling. You cant logic a feeling.Lexie assumed rightly or wrongly the man was scared of her dog now you are doing the same.

My  previous post was to illustrate how someone was scared of my dog and that is the reason why he climbed the gate. Interestingly it was our field with no public footpath which he climbed into if I wanted to be bloody minded I could have said get off my land.


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## EAST KENT (28 June 2011)

As I tell EVERY ONE of the  buyers of my bull terriers.."YOU know your dog is sweet..THEY don`t..it is YOUR responsibility TO YOUR DOG to never cause fright to anyone".A dog today only has to cause fright,not seriously injure,it is unfair,but that is how it is.
   Now,if I saw  a couple of bull terriers/staffies /pits galloping toward me mouths open a grinning with smiley eyes..no would`nt worry at all.BUT if it were two Rotties ,then me personally would ..errrr..need the toilet!  NEVER put your dog in a situation where it might cause fear,it can so easily end up in court and even a destruction order. Possibly with all the gear you had on your lovely looking dog I might have been wary too. A simple thin check chain should be sufficent.
 Keep to the OS paths Lexie ..and Smile next time


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## SusieT (28 June 2011)

'Because, SusieT, good manners and basic courtesy cost nothing and make the world a nicer place to live in..'
And when they fail because people keep walking on your land? Or insist they have a right to because they want to? It works two ways... If someone is being arsey with me because they want to walk/hunt/whatever on my land without permission and without my say so (no ROW) then I am not going to be polite and forgiving am I now. Obviously without being ther eit's impossible to say how both parties reacted..We only have one side.


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## cptrayes (28 June 2011)

lexiedhb said:



			I did not get arsey with the man in the wood- as you can see from the conversation written.
		
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Good. I apologise for thinking that because you were prepared to call him a "tit" on here that you had radiated similar insult in body language, if not words, when you met him.

On the other hand, from the conversation as written, and not being able to hear the tone of voice, I read the words of a man who is frightened by your dog and frustrated by your refusal to accept that he is frightened by your dog. 

Both you and he are anonymous and I have no idea which one of you is in the wrong, if indeed either of you were.



lexiedhb said:



			If you think I am keeping a high energy dog inside and only attending training class then ummm you must be mad- he would go stir crazy- as would pretty much any dog, and do him absolutely NO good at all. 

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No, but I do think you are crazy if you have rehomed a big and high energy dog without having a large garden. I don't think a young and boisterous dog of his breeding should be inside a house much during daylight at all, but that's just my opinion.


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## Changes (28 June 2011)

cptrayes said:



			No, but I do think you are crazy if you have rehomed a big and high energy dog without having a large garden. I don't think a young and boisterous dog of his breeding should be inside a house much during daylight at all, but that's just my opinion.
		
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Where is there any indication that the dog is unhappy? You have no justification for passing comment on the dog when you haven't seen either him or the manner in which the OP handles him. 

You are taking your canine predjudice out on the OP to try and save an argument which you lost several pages back. 

Yup, the OP was wrong to be on private land, and she has conceded that point. However her breed of dog (which you must have trawled for) is not relevant. The dog was under control, and not attacking. 

To suggest she shouldn't have him on a purely assumptive basis when she has obviously given him a life that he would likely not have had is bang out of order.


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## cptrayes (28 June 2011)

I am entitled to the opinion that a Staffie Ridgeback cross needs a garden. That is my opinion whether the dog is unhappy or not. I think ALL dogs except perhaps handbag dogs need a garden.

I have no canine prejudices but I understand now that there is a dog group on the dog forum that is just like the fox hunting people on the hunting forum who will not hear a word said against a dog or its owner.

The dog may have been under control, but she was told by a man that he was frightened. The two are not mutually exclusive. They are probably both true.


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## Changes (28 June 2011)

cptrayes said:



			I am entitled to the opinion that a Staffie Ridgeback cross needs a garden. That is my opinion whether the dog is unhappy or not. I think ALL dogs except perhaps handbag dogs need a garden.

I have no canine prejudices but I understand now that there is a dog group on the dog forum that is just like the fox hunting people on the hunting forum who will not hear a word said against a dog or its owner.

The dog may have been under control, but she was told by a man that he was frightened. The two are not mutually exclusive. They are probably both true.
		
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He's a rescue. OP seems to be responsibly giving him a good life. You are wrong to knock her for that. 
You are also wrong to suggest that because people disagree with you there is some unspoken compliance amongst them. The problem is your determination to win the verbal argument no matter what tangents you shoot off at to discredit the OP. 

Your last statement is utter nonsense. I have a sweetheart of a Doberman, but he's a big lad and weighs 48 kilos. He scares the bejasus out of people that don't know him. That does not mean he's out of control.


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## lexiedhb (28 June 2011)

Oh for godness sake of course he has a garden (a majority or rescues would not rehome a dog to someone without one!)- a fairly sizeable one at that, but IMO garden exercise is simply not enough for him or any reasonable sized dog.

So you can read scared? I have no idea if he was or not- I know if I were scared of a dog I would not walk straight past it on a path no more that 2ft wide.... maybe that is just me- but you can not read that I was not arsey? how does that work?

Dog group? well erm yes it is caledl AAD, but being relatively new to this part of the forum I can assure you that these folk are just giving their opinions as they see it- which are probably more relavent as they actually own a dog or 5, (I am assuming you do not CPT- do excuse me if Im wrong).


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## Serenity087 (28 June 2011)

Lexie, keep going back, I keep getting chucked off my local bridlepaths on Dorey by people who seem unable to put two and two together and reach four.

The rest of my yard have been based here for years yet I'm the only one who gets drama.  It's probably cos Dorey is so much bigger, people feel intimadated and scared by her (probably had their dogs throats ripped out by a large horse once...  )

Chances are if you see him again, he won't even remember you!

(P.S. - this isn't about tresspassing, why on earth would an urban woodland be used for pheasants, it's illegal, and the blokey said it was pretty much Lexie's dog who was banned, no one else!  So all the garden comments are irrelevant.  If you came down shouting at me for walking up your garden path to post you a letter then you'd still be a tit.  I'm entitled to be on your garden path as much as Lexie is to be on this man's woodland footpath!
If it even is his!)


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## CAYLA (29 June 2011)

For gods sake, what on earth has the size of a garden got to do with a dog? a garden is not an exercise area! its a secure place for emergency toilet breaks and somewhere to go lie down if need be........some people have no garden! instead they walk they legs of their dogs, which is what we need to do with our dogs, unless we have land to walk them on.
Frightened or not, the bloke sounds like an idiot, he may have been scared! Im scared of some odd looking men, does not mean I can shout and ball at them to get out of my way and never come near me again. I will simply walk swiftly past them and ignore.
He would have shat a brick had he seen me and my pack and my rotti and akita who are never on a lead, I don't really care who is scared of them, they wont bother people or approach, or another dog for that matter, neither could Dex, he was on a lead!
I think his spaniel was off and out of control and bloke shat himself when he saw another dog incase it bit his badly behaved spaniel for running up to lexi and dex. If its not his land, keep going and next time take your OH, he may shut half his gob then.
I agree with EK re check chain


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## cptrayes (29 June 2011)

lexiedhb said:



			If you think I am keeping a high energy dog inside and only attending training class then ummm you must be mad- he would go stir crazy
		
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lexiedhb said:



			Oh for godness sake of course he has a garden
		
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I raised the question of the garden because Lexie seemed to me with the first quote to be saying that if she did not walk the dog then he would be permanently "inside". She corrected this impression.




lexiedhb said:



			I have no idea if he was or not- I know if I were scared of a dog I would not walk straight past it on a path no more that 2ft wide....
		
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Men are from Mars, women are from Venus. Allow me to give you two translations:

" I am afraid of your dog but I have two women watching me and I am not going to wimp out in front of them and turn back or thread my way through the trees to avoid you"

"I am afraid of your dog but I am bravely and foolishly going to walk right close to him in the hope that he will actually attempt to bite me and I can have something serious to go to the authorities to complain about."




I am getting the impression that some of you know each other and are forgetting that this forum is also read by strangers who can easily put a different interpretation on what has been written, much of which seems to me to be pretty aggressively anti anyone who is actually scared of big dogs.


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## Gladioli (29 June 2011)

cptrayes said:



			I am getting the impression that some of you know each other and are forgetting that this forum is also read by strangers who can easily put a different interpretation on what has been written, much of which seems to me to be pretty aggressively anti anyone who is actually scared of big dogs.
		
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Complete tripe, I am scared of big dogs, even though I used to own a GSD, I have never met anyone on her personally however I have never found them agressive. It is a public forum and you are entitled to your opinion however has it occured to you that maybe just maybe your own prejudices colour what you read about big dogs? 

The OP asked about going back on the land not about whether or not anyone considered her dog a danger.  

Just out of interest Do you own dogs? or work with them? Are you scared of them?


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## Maesfen (29 June 2011)

cptrayes said:



			.....this forum is also read by strangers who can easily put a different interpretation on what has been written, much of which seems to me to be pretty aggressively anti anyone who is actually scared of big dogs.
		
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I'd go along with that too.

We have a large lurcher, wolfhound x; he's wonderful and the softest thing on four legs but you'd be surprised how many are scared/worried about him (until they know him) purely because of his size and many of those people are decent dog owning people themselves; think how non-doggie people would feel.  
Large dogs can intimidate people, that's a fact even if they are other dog owners but that's no reason to act aggressively towards those people even just with the written word.  That attitude could make them go the other way entirely and make them completely anti-dog or anti dog people so please just think of the bigger picture before you go in guns blazing and 'attacking' people because they don't think of or like big dogs as you do.


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## lexiedhb (29 June 2011)

Im sorry but no matter what planet you are from NO ONE in their right mind would think this EVER
"I am afraid of your dog but I am bravely and foolishly going to walk right close to him in the hope that he will actually attempt to bite me and I can have something serious to go to the authorities to complain about."

NO ONE wants to get bitten ever


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## Archangel (29 June 2011)

lexiedhb said:



			Im sorry but no matter what planet you are from NO ONE in their right mind would think this EVER
"I am afraid of your dog but I am bravely and foolishly going to walk right close to him in the hope that he will actually attempt to bite me and I can have something serious to go to the authorities to complain about."

NO ONE wants to get bitten ever
		
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Actually oddly, some blokes do have this attitude. I don't think they want to get bitten but they see backing down as wimpish.  

Not to do with dogs but I had a massive bull in my field for years, we got along famously but every bloke without exception felt they had to walk as close to the damm bull as some sort of stupid bravado thing.  

My OH was the worst offender.  I told him time and time again that he was playing a dangerous game.  It all came to a head when the bull noticed OH away from me in the open and suddenly the whole herd were round him with no possibility of out running them.  Had I not been there to run over and distract them, think OH might have been killed. Stupid man, but couldn't stop himself taking on the bull - will never do it again though


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## Dobiegirl (29 June 2011)

I do not know or have not met anyone on this forum perhaps the fact that we are all singing from the same hymn sheet is because we all own & know how to deal with big dogs.We cannot help the publics perception of big dogs but I would have thought on a dog forum there would not be this prejudice.

As I said before we dont know how the man felt so second guessing isnt useful. Men are from Mars blah blah is so outdated and is laughed at by counsellors & pyscotherapists in regard to personal growth and is just American pysco babble.


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## lexiedhb (29 June 2011)

Just to add- I have never met anyone off here either......


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## Changes (29 June 2011)

cptrayes said:



			I raised the question of the garden because Lexie seemed to me with the first quote to be saying that if she did not walk the dog then he would be permanently "inside". She corrected this impression.
		
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She didn't 'correct' anything - you misread a post and made huge incorrect assumptions from it. 



cptrayes said:



			Men are from Mars, women are from Venus. Allow me to give you two translations:
		
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Really - put the shovel down. You were NOT there, you can't hypothesise by using the OP's story selectively.




cptrayes said:



			I am getting the impression that some of you know each other and are forgetting that this forum is also read by strangers who can easily put a different interpretation on what has been written, much of which seems to me to be pretty aggressively anti anyone who is actually scared of big dogs.
		
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I have never met a single person on this section of the forum. You're being disagreed with because you are talking nonsense, not due to some hidden conspiracy.


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## EAST KENT (29 June 2011)

Actually,going back to the OP, she is on someone`s land ,if not on an OS numbered footpath ,be sure of that fact,she was in the wrong. Calling a landowner "a tit" does`nt exactly give the impression of a responsible dog owner to me.
    Just because CPT sees this fact,and finds a big dog kitted up in multiple control gear intimidating does`nt make her anything but ,IMO, quite right.
   Dog owners should first and foremost consider other people who may well not be dog orientated at all. Every bad impression left in someone`s mind about your dog/breed is the one that will be remembered and talked about. For instance ,there are nice bull terriers out there doing PAT dog work..but I`ll bet the bull terrier you will call to mind first is that idiot`s one attached to a cow`s throat? Right?? Thought so.


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## lexiedhb (29 June 2011)

Oh for godness sake- I did not call the man a tit to his face, I was not arsey as stated numerous times I was UPSET. Upset that he had based his prejudice on looks alone. I have also said he has every right to ask me not to be there- except on the footpath bit!

How does calling someone a tit, on a forum, whilst in an upset/confused/angry state = irresponsible dog owner? I take it you have never called anyone anything in your life ever? or that would make YOU an irresponsible owner right? Sheeeesh

Kitted up to the nines? A halti and a purple fleecey harness? Which I have been advised to use by two separate trainers? Harness for just general, and halti for when I need him to focus on me but he's off looking at something else?

Just because someone does not do it your way = choke chain + several years experience of Bull breeds, does not make them categorically wrong


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## shadowboy (29 June 2011)

Its not get off mylanditis- when we had land we saved sooooo hard to buy it and maintain it - it really annoyed me that others thought they could use it as their own despite the fact i'd had to sell horses and my treasured historic vehicle to get it. We found a lady training her spaniels on it once and asked her to leave - she was shocked and couldnt understnad why when there was no livestock there- we informed her it had just been fertilised and we were waiting for rain so the white fertiliser balls were on the surface (if you looked closely) and were unsafe for the dogs untill washed into the grass. Plus it was our land- land that we had worked damned hard for... 

Re working out the footpath you need to go to your local council offices as they will have the most up to date definitive map


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## Luci07 (29 June 2011)

cptrayes said:



			The dog's breeding on both sides, Staffie and Ridgeback is renowned for aggression. Some staffies are bred around here to fight and a poster on this forum last year posted how the family ridgeback had just been put down because it bit a child who was play fighting with "its" little girl. The ridgeback that attacked my horse was being walked by a female neighbour of mine and she could not hold it, it pulled the lead out of her hands and went for my horse's throat.

The owner of the land is not to know how gentle or otherwise the dog is, (bearing in mind also that the OP has posted for advice how to stop it biting her). All he sees is an overexcited dog which is of breeding he considers is  likely to be aggressive. Why should he not be genuinely afraid? 

Is no-one on this thread prepared to believe that the man did actually feel threatened by this dog? A big ginger ridgeback/staffie cross, admittedly in an over-excited state? It would have scared me.

OP I think you may need to muzzle the dog in public just to make people feel safer, whether the dog actually needs the muzzle or not.
		
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My turn to jump in. Please keep your idiotic prejudice to yourself. I can not discuss Ridgebacks as have no experience in them but do NOT state such utter crap as "Staffies are known for aggression". Did you know they were actually known as the "nanny" breed by the kennel club due to their incredible love of people? The breed has been largely hi jacked by a revolting form of human but lets be clear - ANY dog brought into THOSE circumstances would have issues. People like you really do not help with those trying to improve the breed image and HELP the massive numbers of staffies rotting in kennels and being PTS. Whatever your thoughts towards the RSPCA, perhaps you were not aware that they have launched a campaign to help address this image issue? or that Battersea is now working with Staffie Welfare to do the same? or maybe you should have come to our Welfare stand at Battersea last weekend to actually take the time to talk to people who do know this breed.


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## Dobiegirl (29 June 2011)

It is get of my landitis,dosnt matter whether you bought it, were gifted it,inheireted  or married into it. As I said we dont have a problem with people walking on our land as long as they are responsible and follow the country code. We are not in the minority as other farmers round here are the same but then we are not precious about it like the man who ordered us off his 1/2 acre of land but walks on ours. We did not stop to point out to him the irony of the situation or reply with in that case stay off our 120 acres.

Also for the people who said how would you feel if we walked on your garden well no one walks in any farmers /landowners garden so you cant compare the 2.


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## EAST KENT (30 June 2011)

There you go Lexie..straight in the deep end, no wonder CPT got annoyed. I don`t know your age,probably extremely young,but a bit of growing up is in order here,stop dummy throwing.
   Would`nt want you in any training class of mine methinks.Sometimes people do know a bit more than you,CPT for instance knows loads about navicular and treatment thereof,wish I`d known half of that when my mare was put down for just that.
   Yes ,I`ll guarantee I know a Hell of a lot more than you ever will about retraining asbo dogs , be a bit pathetic if forty years of experience had`nt gleaned me something ..but there ,not wasting any more thought or time on such an attitude type of body.Grow up..soon


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## lexiedhb (30 June 2011)

How is answering you back having just been called an irresponsible dog owner, for no apparent reason in at the deep end? Its not. I have never said you or any one else does not know more than me, why would I? maybe if you actually offered some advise on the dog instead of just putting me down we might get somewhere, but I imagine that would be more effort than throwing insults.

I am not young, and I do not need to grow up.


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## Luci07 (30 June 2011)

EAST KENT said:



			There you go Lexie..straight in the deep end, no wonder CPT got annoyed. I don`t know your age,probably extremely young,but a bit of growing up is in order here,stop dummy throwing.
   Would`nt want you in any training class of mine methinks.Sometimes people do know a bit more than you,CPT for instance knows loads about navicular and treatment thereof,wish I`d known half of that when my mare was put down for just that.
   Yes ,I`ll guarantee I know a Hell of a lot more than you ever will about retraining asbo dogs , be a bit pathetic if forty years of experience had`nt gleaned me something ..but there ,not wasting any more thought or time on such an attitude type of body.Grow up..soon

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Hang on... did you read the original post. Dex was ON A LEAD... man was rude and uncessarily so. Yes I agree you should not trespass - I have been told I was trespassing (innocently) and told I needed to go a different way round. I didn't argue, although in this instance felt he was proving a point as it meant going down one side of a field or through another (side of the field btw, never through the middle), but I respect it was his land and was fine. He also was not rude so not a problem.  I have met people out when walking my 2 dogs with friends dogs and had a run in. Just for the sake of responsibility I called my 2 dogs back, my friend called her (working cocker) back and we put on leads. The other man was really rude saying his "nice" dog would be fine to play with mine and I called them back because they were at risk dogs. No, I called them back because we effectively had a pack with 3 dogs and I did not want another strange one rushing in. (an out of control, ignoring owner dog as well) Few sharp words to the effect that other person needed a better education and further grounding with his manners.  I can sound very county when I want to and he was immensly surprised with my response. Idiot!


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## Tinkerbee (30 June 2011)

Would I go back? Yes. Your dog was under control, and if there is a ROW you have every right to be there, even if the landowner (any proof) said otherwise. 

However, if you are straying from the ROW you should stop as it is incredibly rude and if I was the landowner I'd tell you to sod off!


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## cptrayes (30 June 2011)

lexiedhb said:



			How does calling someone a tit, on a forum, whilst in an upset/confused/angry state = irresponsible dog owner?
		
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Well this is the point really isnt it Lexie. NO-ONE has called you an irresponsible dog owner, but you blow up at the slightest insult you can possibly find. If you did that to a male who was actually frightened of your dog and feeling a bit of an idiot because of it, no wonder he reacted to you with aggression. 

He based his prejudice on FEAR, which (unlike many men) he expressed to you and you dismissed. Why can you not accept that? He reacted just like most men do when afraid and not wanting to look like a pillock in front of women, who then had his feelings dismissed out of hand, he got a bit shirty.

Live with it, you've rehomed a dog who will get you that reaction all his life. It's not fair. It's not justified. It's called "life".


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## cptrayes (30 June 2011)

Luci07 said:



			maybe you should have come to our Welfare stand at Battersea last weekend to actually take the time to talk to people who do know this breed.
		
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Maybe you should come north and see the people who walk Staffies in the parks round here. Some of them are currently using (and destroying) the trees by hanging their dogs from them by their jaws to strengthen them. And this is in a small upmarket market town.

Owners of these dogs have to put up with the fact that a tiny minority are owned and trained for aggression and that the ordinary person walking down the street does not know which are which.

On a side note, Lexie may be lucky she doesn't live in this part of the country, a farmer friend of mine when into someone's back garden and shot two Rotties because he believed he had seen them killing his sheep earlier in the week. He confessed to the police and he was never even cautioned and he still has his shotgun licence. He'd happily shoot a dog he felt threatened by on one of the many footpaths that go through his land, justified or not. He'd tell the police the dog went for him, and they would believe him because of the double harness and the appearance of the dog.


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## lexiedhb (30 June 2011)

cptrayes said:



			Well this is the point really isnt it Lexie. NO-ONE has called you an irresponsible dog owner, but you blow up at the slightest insult you can possibly find. If you did that to a male who was actually frightened of your dog and feeling a bit of an idiot because of it, no wonder he reacted to you with aggression. 

He based his prejudice on FEAR, which (unlike many men) he expressed to you and you dismissed. Why can you not accept that? He reacted just like most men do when afraid and not wanting to look like a pillock in front of women, who then had his feelings dismissed out of hand, he got a bit shirty.

Live with it, you've rehomed a dog who will get you that reaction all his life. It's not fair. It's not justified. It's called "life".
		
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I have said time and time again I did not blow up at this man nor was i arsey- why you can not believe that but are 110% sure of this mans utter fear of my dog i do not know.

"Calling a landowner "a tit" does`nt exactly give the impression of a responsible dog owner to me" this IS where someone insinuated I was  an irresponsible dog owner.

I give up some people seem to  just want an argument, to put others down, or play devils advocate.


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## Gladioli (30 June 2011)

cptrayes said:



			On a side note, Lexie may be lucky she doesn't live in this part of the country, a farmer friend of mine when into someone's back garden and shot two Rotties because he believed he had seen them killing his sheep earlier in the week. He confessed to the police and he was never even cautioned and he still has his shotgun licence. He'd happily shoot a dog he felt threatened by on one of the many footpaths that go through his land, justified or not. He'd tell the police the dog went for him, and they would believe him because of the double harness and the appearance of the dog.
		
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I think your friend is lucky he does not live in the real world, walking into a garden and shooting dogs, for gods sake, how did he make sure it was a safe shot.  I find that very hard to believe.  If I could be bothered I would try and find out more details but the more of this I read the more unbelievable it gets so I think I will just step away now and read further posts by you with a large chunk of salt.  

OP all you need to do is walk fido in a nice little collar and none of this will happen to you because the dog wont be in a double harness and therefore wont be a danger....


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## birchave0 (30 June 2011)

Back to the OP.......
I always take the view that if the land I'm walking on does not belong to me, it belongs to someone else.
Therefore use a map, check where the REGISTERED public footpaths are in your area and stick to them.  There will be various tracks and paths on all kinds of land, this does not mean they are registered for public use.

Fair enough the man may have been rude but maybe he is sick to the back teeth of asking people not to walk on his land and to stick to the public footpath?  If the land has no public access why would the land owner need to fence it?  People should check the OS map and see which paths are available to the public, the local authority will also have a definitive map showing all the public rights of way including paths and bridlepaths.

If one person strays from the path and is seen by others how long does it take for other folk to think that it's ok the walk all over that land?
Private land is just that, private, and unless you have permission to use it you are trespassing which you can be arrested for if you refuse to leave when asked.

Regardless of what kind of dog you have, it is always advisable to keep them on a lead whilst on a public footpath or bridleway.  Not everyone likes dogs and there's nothing worse than being approached by a strange dog whether it's friendly or not.

I'm sorry that you've been upset by the whole episode but do yourself a favour, get an up to date map and then you are sure that you are walking on the registered paths. If anyone stops you, then just smile and tell them you are on a public right of way


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## Luci07 (30 June 2011)

cptrayes said:



			Maybe you should come north and see the people who walk Staffies in the parks round here. Some of them are currently using (and destroying) the trees by hanging their dogs from them by their jaws to strengthen them. And this is in a small upmarket market town.

Owners of these dogs have to put up with the fact that a tiny minority are owned and trained for aggression and that the ordinary person walking down the street does not know which are which.
.
		
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As an owner of this breed I do not have to put up with that attitude and neither should you be seen to endorse it. Staffie Welfare have a slogan which is very apt (and applies to many dogs) "Blame the Deed, Not the Breed". Staffies are terriers, active, intelligent and loyal.  I live in Surrey and in Guildford (so how much more "upmarket" are you going to get? there was a recent incident where a woman selling her golden retriever on Gumtree had the police contact her 2 weeks later. Her dog had been used as bait and had had its jaws sellotaped together - mauled to death, unable to defend itself. Thats in Surrey.

I happily approach anyone with a staff, the scarier the better but that is because I do know this breed. I also take GREAT delight in ensuring that all around know that the dog is friendly and if it makes the owner look like the idiot he/she is, then I have made my point. 

Next time you see someone trying to look big with a staff, just remember that they are the ultimate wimps. They have "chosen" a breed who are reknown for their loyalty and are highly unlikely to turn on them, unlike other dogs. 

Staffies are first and foremost, active/country dogs - they are not meant to be walked for 15 minutes on a short chain a day, even my staffie with displaysia needs over an hour a day (split up). Reclaim these dogs. And whatever the rights and wrongs of peoples views on Kennel club standards, its an incredible shame that these dogs are so overbred for a quick buck that the original criteria seems to be disappearing. I had someone on the stand say they were worried their dog was too small - eh no.. the bitch was the correct height.


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## Changes (30 June 2011)

cptrayes said:



			He'd happily shoot a dog he felt threatened by on one of the many footpaths that go through his land, justified or not. He'd tell the police the dog went for him, and they would believe him because of the double harness and the appearance of the dog.
		
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And you think that's justifiable? 

That's really disturbing, and quite sick, because that same mentality of human is no different to the ones you are slating that own the dogs you don't like in your 'upmarket' little town. 

I'm guessing the OP is very lucky people like you are nowhere near her.


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## EAST KENT (30 June 2011)

Actually all OP needs is a nice thin check chain,a degree of respect for landowners ,and to consult a REAL dog trainer ,such as an ex forces one;she has been given lots of sound advice on hereand just got arsey over it.
   He is probably a beautiful dog (pictures please) with potential to be a credit to his type of dog. He also would benefit greatly if OP could ask a farmer /landowner if they have an ENCLOSED field with no stock in it to give this one a real good burn up daily.
    But ,Hey? why waste time ,she`ll get shirty over this too.


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## Dobiegirl (30 June 2011)

Cpt you need to get another friend, if anyone walked into someone else garden with a loaded shotgun around here the police would take a very dim view of that and I suspect that would be the policy of the police everywhere.

Since the Bird shooting if anyone had reported your friend the armed response team would have been alerted and he would have been lucky to escape with his life. My gut instinct tells me this is a work of pure fiction but if you can prove with newspaper cuttings I will be only to glad to apologise. Also you fail to see the irony of your friend walking(trespassing) in someones garden.

East Kent your experience of navicular, Im sorry but was has that got to do with this post?. So you have had years of experience breeding Bull terriers and dealing with asbo dogs, Lexies dog is not an asbo dog so where is the relevance. As far as I can remember we do not know what Lexies dog is it might not be a straight cross and might even have a bit of poodle in there somewhere.

I never liked Bull Terriers as a breed but am open minded enough  and East Kents previous posts of her dogs has enlightened me to think again.

There is blatant prejudice on this forum against certain breeds but people are not open minded enough to question the fact that perhaps they could be wrong.


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## Spudlet (30 June 2011)

Lexie needs to keep doing what she is doing, as she is making good progress, and ignore the small-minded views of people both on and off this forum.


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## bonny (30 June 2011)

Living in Scotland where everyone has the right to go where they please now I find the whole get off my land argument incredible.  It works here and would in England if only people would live and let live and not be so hostile to the idea of someone else walking on their grass, footpath or whatever.
Bt the way since the law changed people are not wandering around other people's gardens so that argument really doesn't apply.


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## lexiedhb (30 June 2011)

EAST KENT said:



			Actually all OP needs is a nice thin check chain,a degree of respect for landowners ,and to consult a REAL dog trainer ,such as an ex forces one;she has been given lots of sound advice on hereand just got arsey over it.
   He is probably a beautiful dog (pictures please) with potential to be a credit to his type of dog. He also would benefit greatly if OP could ask a farmer /landowner if they have an ENCLOSED field with no stock in it to give this one a real good burn up daily.
    But ,Hey? why waste time ,she`ll get shirty over this too.
		
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NO she wont- as this is advice, good advice at that. Although without seeing how he behaves I'm inclined to stick with what my trainers are currently telling me- have looked into check chains (see my other thread which YOU commented on) so am not ignoring advice given.

We have asked a few folk with fields but inevitably they say "if i let you then everyone will want to" which is fair enough.


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## Luci07 (30 June 2011)

bonny said:



			Living in Scotland where everyone has the right to go where they please now I find the whole get off my land argument incredible.  It works here and would in England if only people would live and let live and not be so hostile to the idea of someone else walking on their grass, footpath or whatever.
Bt the way since the law changed people are not wandering around other people's gardens so that argument really doesn't apply.
		
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Actually - good point - I thought there was a "right to roam" now in England. Not saying I endorse people tramping over crops and chasing livestock  but think I will wander off to check this out
..


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## birchave0 (30 June 2011)

Luci07 said:



			Actually - good point - I thought there was a "right to roam" now in England. Not saying I endorse people tramping over crops and chasing livestock  but think I will wander off to check this out
..
		
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Not on private land


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## blackcob (30 June 2011)

cptrayes said:



			Maybe you should come north and see the people who walk Staffies in the parks round here. Some of them are currently using (and destroying) the trees by hanging their dogs from them by their jaws to strengthen them. And this is in a small upmarket market town.
		
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And in my small upmarket market town (that phrase makes my teeth itch a bit, how bourgeois ) the only staffie is owned by a 70 year old woman who sits in the park and throws rubber rings for it endlessly, the staffie then following her home without a lead carrying the rubber ring in its mouth. Sometimes it sits and waits for her outside the butchers, where small children pet it on the head _and do not have their faces ripped off._ 

Anecdote does not equal data, yadda yadda.


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## Sleighfarer (30 June 2011)

cptrayes said:



			Maybe you should come north and see the people who walk Staffies in the parks round here. Some of them are currently using (and destroying) the trees by hanging their dogs from them by their jaws to strengthen them. And this is in a small upmarket market town.

Owners of these dogs have to put up with the fact that a tiny minority are owned and trained for aggression and that the ordinary person walking down the street does not know which are which.

On a side note, Lexie may be lucky she doesn't live in this part of the country, a farmer friend of mine when into someone's back garden and shot two Rotties because he believed he had seen them killing his sheep earlier in the week. He confessed to the police and he was never even cautioned and he still has his shotgun licence. He'd happily shoot a dog he felt threatened by on one of the many footpaths that go through his land, justified or not. He'd tell the police the dog went for him, and they would believe him because of the double harness and the appearance of the dog.
		
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Your farmer friend might like to consider the fact that lying to the police is an offence.


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## Serenity087 (30 June 2011)

So in CPTrayes land it's okay to shoot a dog for wearing a harness, but not okay to not have control of your dog so it bites someone.

Can anyone else see how CPtrayes land is a messed up world?

Also, STFU about staffies.  Do you have any idea how many beloved family pets are now locked up in rescues because of people like you and the ***** you spout?

Staffies are nicknamed Nanny Dogs.  You know why?  Cos you can trust them with the lives of your children.  So stick that in your dog racism pipe and smoke it.


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## Luci07 (30 June 2011)

blackcob said:



			And in my small upmarket market town (that phrase makes my teeth itch a bit, how bourgeois ) the only staffie is owned by a 70 year old woman who sits in the park and throws rubber rings for it endlessly, the staffie then following her home without a lead carrying the rubber ring in its mouth. Sometimes it sits and waits for her outside the butchers, where small children pet it on the head _and do not have their faces ripped off._ 

Anecdote does not equal data, yadda yadda.
		
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Ah thank you for introducing some brevity into this...I am glad this hasn't turned purely into a staffie bashing exercise!


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