# Putting a healthy horse to sleep because you can't sell it...



## The wife (16 April 2015)

I've seen a post on a social media site about a horse that the owner was considering having PTS because she couldn't sell it and it got me thinking... What are peoples opinions on this?

I am potentially, in the future, in the same situation, my own horse would never be sold as he is exceptional difficult and suffers from severe behavioural problems, although him and his regular jockey get on great and are competing to a relatively decent level, he would never be sold as he would be dangerous in the wrong hands and would kill himself or potentially somebody else and so when the time comes, the nicest thing for him would be to end his life with his mum next to him, in his field at home to save him bring passed about, abused and neglected.

I have confidence in my own opinion of this particular horse and have had it done to another horse I owned who 'lost his marbles' and became a danger to himself - there were no underlying problems, however we suspected he had a brain tumour. 

The post on the media site mentioned no history of behaviour or physical problems, just that she couldn't sell him/her and didn't know if PTS was the best option as she was tired of 'tyre kickers' and time wasters.

Yes I wouldn't hesitate if there were behaviour issues, yes if there were physical issues and certainly if the horse was getting on a bit but PTS because she couldn't sell it and didn't want to loan out? 

Whats is everyone's thoughts?

ETA:  My initial thoughts were each to their own and I am very much in the worst fates than death camp, however, i'm not sure I could do it to one of my own just because I couldn't sell it - assuming there is nothing wrong with it and if my circumstances dictated that I lost my home or the horse but then i'd put out on loan. Hmmmm, got me thinking


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## ihatework (16 April 2015)

I think it's entirely up to the owner. Sad, but better than sending to auction or 'free to a good home'


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## ridefast (16 April 2015)

I would never judge anyone else as I am not in their situation. PTS is a difficult decision but IMO there are far worse fates for a horse. I think the owner is actually being very sensible, he/she will know exactly what has happened to the horse. If finances are that bad then a loan possibly isn't worth the risk of the horse being returned. I don't judge you when the time comes for you to have yours PTS, it's not your place to judge anyone else.


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## alainax (16 April 2015)

If the horse was had the potential to be a useful horse for someone else, just that the owner couldnt manage to sell, I would send to sales livery. Even if that meant potentially making buttons on the horse. I the horse wasnt, ie dangerous or serious medical issues, then it may well be the kindest thing.


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## Penumbra (16 April 2015)

It's obviously sad, but I'm sure most owners would only do this as a last resort. Many rescue centers are full to capacity, or may not be willing to accept her horse for some reason, and it may not be suitable/possible for this animal to go to auction. 

If she can't afford to keep the horse anymore- especially due to a sudden change of circumstances- what option does she have?


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## Dusty85 (16 April 2015)

Again I agree- entirely the owners call. 

However, playing devils advocate- what are the other options for her? There are LOTS of horses out there for sale. If she has tried and been unsuccessful- why is that? If she has really given it go/reduced price etc and still no takers, and loaning might not be an option for her, then I don't see what choice she has. 

I don't believe in just passing a horse to a rescue home in the hope that someone else will look after your problem. Its a burden that most just can't cope with. 

I don't think its an especially nice thought, but I do think that she may be doing the best thing for all involved in the long term. 

Or, being synical, maybe she's just trying to pull the sympathy vote so someone takes him.

ETA- I would probably do the same, but only if I had exhausted all options.


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## The wife (16 April 2015)

Having had time to think about it a bit more, I think she/he is being quite sensible about it as I see hundreds of adverts at dirt cheap prices and just know it isn't going to end well for that horse. As above rescue centres are full to capacity and there will be a horse in dire need of help due to its circumstances that could be taking the place of that particular animal.

I have also dealt with a lot of really messed up animals in the past and 1 in particular advised that it should be PTS - it bolted while with us without any self preservation and ended up being sold on, it eventually broke somebodys neck while running into a fence, I'm not sure if i was that owner if I could sleep soundly at night with that on my shoulders.

It's sad and it's never going to be a nice thing to do but I often think as horse owners we have a responsibility to our animals to do the right thing by them whatever that may be.


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## MotherOfChickens (16 April 2015)

it depends whether or not their are reasons other than they just want it gone. So for financial reasons, behavioural reasons etc then fair enough. If its because they just don't much like it, or won't do (e.g.) the competitive job they want it to do then I find that hard. They shouldn't be considered disposable imho.


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## rara007 (16 April 2015)

Their horse their choice. I Pride myself that mine are all safe and would ultimately be saleable- they're handled by a groom and my adult family on a daily basis and my horses are my hobby, nothing psychotic here please!
I think there's a worrying trend for people to assume they're the only ones good/competent/loving/dedicated/with enough rugs to look after their simply badly mannered horse! Any horse is dangerous in the wrong hands given time and no one likes the thought of their horse ending up rotting away skinny unloved. I've sold horses through project horses before that we not behaving well with us, they're now loved more than you can imagine and havnt caused damage to anyone in the process, so there are homes out there for the less textbook horses. We've also sold a horse (Ex racer) to a pet home that didn't take to competing, they're still there, loved just for being a grey horse, 20 years later.


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## conniegirl (16 April 2015)

I won't put myself in the position of having a healthy horse that can't be sold ever again, done it once and it was horrible to think about what would happen to him should he kill me!
My last horse was dangerous for anyone else, he was tricky, a blind bolter and had hundreds of quirks. I could get a beautiful tune out of him and knew how to avoid the bolting however he would have killed anyone else. He would have been pts had it come to it however he had a heart attack in the school.
My current lad is the type where people are queuing up to buy.
He is a gorgeous very very correctly put together 15.2hh coloured small hunter, he is extremely straight forwards, totally bombproof to hack, is 5 yrs old but can do a good novice dressage test, bold and brave when jumping, very well schooled, will happily carry a total novice and look after them, is extremely good on the ground, loves cuddles and kisses etc. I've worked extremely hard with him since he arrived from Ireland as an unhandled scruffy 4yr old in order to secure his future as quickly as possible.
He is with me for life if possible but if the worst happens he is extremely sellable (heck I've had 3offers for him already and he is deffinatly not for sale)


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## ChesnutsRoasting (16 April 2015)

Sadly, horses too, have joined the 'too much hassle, PTS' solution  that currently pervades our society. I often think there would be money to be made with advertising  a 'Fed up with your horse? Can't sell, won't sell? Give us a call. No questions asked!' campaign&#128554;


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## Luci07 (16 April 2015)

There are so many horses being dumped ... And perhaps it is also part of the modern culture whereby people think it was easier and cheaper to buy a horse rather than pay for lessons. I wouldn't judge someone who had really tried or had a horse no one else would want..


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## budley95 (16 April 2015)

Up to the owner. If they can't sell and are running out of funds i can understand why they'd PTS. I was trying to sell my old pony for a year. Then she went on sales livery for 4 months. And she was an easy pony. A pocket rocket 14.2hh connie x arab that would happily do a 1.10m course, hack alone and in company, was awesome at mounted games and genuinely a mothers dream. Just had lots of time wasters. She went and did BE100 to a decent level with a smaller 14 year old than I was!


But we were getting to a point of considering PTS as couldnt afford 2 and had a real time waster that took her on trial and then her cheque bounced and she couldnt afford the pony. This was 10 years ago so things were a little different, but because of that time waster is why we ended up with 2


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## Shantara (16 April 2015)

I used to be well and truly in the "You can save it, not matter what" camp. I thought people who PTS healthy horses were horrible.
That was until I met Ned.
He would be PTS if I could no longer have him, but that would be my very very VERY last choice. I would have to be poverty stricken, with no hope of getting out before I would let it happen. 
He's a good horse these days, but it would be unfair to him and anyone else to let him go somewhere else. He's finally happy!
That said, I would loan him to a few friends, if I needed a month or so, but wouldn't subject them to him for good.


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## monkeymad (16 April 2015)

I think it is a sensible option to consider. If you sell on a horse you can never guarantee his future. If the horse is humanely pts, you know he will never suffer.


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## rowan666 (16 April 2015)

i think PTS is a far better option than giving it away free/dirt cheap with an uncertain future. Its so sad that this is the state of things now, the market is saturated with low end horses and ponies and there simply isnt enough homes for them so i honestly think PTS is for the best whatever her reasons for needing rid.


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## flaxen (16 April 2015)

A top vet friend of mine did a talk locally last night on old horses and I went along to support him and he brought up the subject of euthanising old horses.  His words are the horse doesnt care whether hes dead or alive and doesnt think Im going to die in 3 days, its sad for the owner but the horse doesnt care less. If more owners took the sensible option of euthanising the old, lame, unrideable unwanted there wouldn't be the amount of neglected abandoned ones there is especially when older horses need more care and expense. I was talking to him at the end about stuff we talk about privately and a vet that was there came up and started discussing about owners will not listen to vets about when its time to pts and better a day to soon than a day too late and that the owners always say one more summer/ week / etc. 

I suspect with the new fly grazing legislation coming in that a lot more abandoned horses will simply be put to sleep. Theres just not enough homes for them and being dead makes no difference to them and surely its better than being starved and neglected.

I lost my pony a couple of months ago and as heart breaking as it was I know it was the right thing to do for his sake and would have been done regardless of his insurance, who after speaking to my friend gave permission anyway as hes not wrong and people dont argue with him.


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## Barnacle (16 April 2015)

Speaking entirely concerning my own perspective, if it were my own horse and I had to live with my decision - I would not be ok with having a horse put down for behavioural issues. Behavioural problems can ALWAYS be fixed. You only need the right person who knows how to do it and not wanting/being too lazy/not having the money for help are not excuses. There are always rescue centres that, at the very least, will try. And if you're at the point of putting a horse down, that's a better option even if they end up having to do so anyway. I think it's just a little bit twisted, really, to assume I've given the horse the best it can have, and think it's better off dead than with someone else. Physical problems/age are a different matter. An older horse that has arthritis, for instance, may never be able to find a suitable home and will genuinely suffer. But I'd add that a suspicion of a problem would never suffice - I'd want a vet to tell me. I'd still try to find a willing home first though. I think it's extraordinarily selfish to assume that everyone out there is going to cause my horse to suffer but I am doing everything right by it. If my horses has behavioural problems, I know that's my fault. If anything, he might get a second chance going to someone new! And sure, maybe it won't work out, but I don't believe it's not worth putting my trust in someone else and giving the horse another chance. With illness, it's just something that happens, not my fault and not usually something that a change of context will help. So I can't hope for a "second chance" - illness just doesn't work the same way. 

Horses are PTS far too easily... People are outraged when these things happen to dogs. But somehow not horses.

Saying that, I don't think it's my place to tell others what to do. I would rather see horses get another chance but I would also not interfere if I wasn't asked for my opinion. What each of us does with our own horse is pretty much our own business and if we just get too attached to see them go somewhere else, that's just how it's going to be. And well, killing it isn't great for the horse - but he's not going to know any different.


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## Firefly9410 (16 April 2015)

Barnacle you are wrong about rescue centres. They will not take on horses with behavioural problems any more they only take neglected and abandoned. You are right in that most behavioural problems can be fixed with the right rider or handler but the fact is most people do not fit into that category. Often those who can fix a horse then want to sell it for a profit, meaning it could end up in another unsuitable home where the behaviour deteriorates again. I understand wanting to give the horse a chance but that is a personal opinion and not a choice I would make, too many horses are passed on again and again to various unsuitable people in the name of giving them a chance. It depends if it is behavioural problems caused by being owned by someone who is not much of a horseman or whether it is something more serious.

The person referenced in the OP I agree is looking for someone to take pity on the horse and buy it. For a horse not to sell I would guess at it being poorly advertised, over priced or there being something wrong with it, either health or behaviour. If it was a sane and healthy horse advertised in enough places with good photos and honest description someone somewhere would want it, for an appropriate price. Even if it was a dealer who bought cheaply if the owner needed a quick sale.


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## Tobiano (17 April 2015)

I have given away 2 horses to people I knew in order to make sure they had a secure future.  I have another, 13 yo, who is arthritic and tricky to ride,he is having a few years of retirement at my expense but when the budget runs out he will be PTS.  I probably could have sold all 3 of those horses if I didn't care where they ended up.


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## Cobbytype (17 April 2015)

It wouldn't sit well with my conscience to have a healthy horse PTS PURELY for financial reasons. Like most people, I've had my financial ups and downs over the years, but always put my animals first when it came to their basic requirements. I know none of us have a crystal ball, but taking on any pet/animal is a commitment not to be taken lightly. I'd rather have beans on toast, drive around in an old banger and take on extra work, than put a healthy horse to sleep.


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## criso (17 April 2015)

I would argue that is the horse is question has serious behavioural and/or physical problems; it's not completely healthy.  Whether these issues can be resolved with treatment or retraining is a case by case basis but if they can't be then you need to seriously think about the implication of passing these problems on to someone else.  There are lots of unscrupulous people out there who will mask these problems and sell on.

If the horse in this case has no problems at all then why are they having problems selling.  If pts is an option then it can't be about asking too high a price as that route would cost the seller money.


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## misskk88 (17 April 2015)

I saw someone offering their horse free to a good home the other day as they had no time or money. It listed no details of the horse, its habits, its character, age etc, just its size and FTGH as 'I no longer have the time or finances'. There was no mention of doing checks on potential homes, no mention of trying to ensure her horses future. Well what a way to take responsibility as the owner! I know there are people out there who genuinely take on horses that are free and provide lovely homes. But why risk the meat man, someone looking for a quick buck, or someone with no sense of the cost of horses taking yours on by not even trying to sell, loan etc in the first instance (yes I realise people will buy and still fall into these categories, but people do usually attach value to something with a price at least).

I know there is another thread running at the minute about animals FTGH, but it fits into my next point...

I am FAR more infuriated by the lack of responsibility and care of this owner, than I am of the owner who would choose to PTS, regardless of the reasons behind it. If the horses won't sell because of behavioural problems, medical problems, health etc, then even more so I would understand the owner considering PTS as an option (whether the these matter can be solved is another debate- and it does limit the potential pool of buyers in the first instance anyway). Of course there is always the option of loan, share, LWVTB, but given the fact charities are full, there are far too many horses out there for the market, and far too many dodgy buyers too, I think there are far more cruel fates than PTS.

ETA- No it doesn't mean I personally would choose to PTS a healthy horse.


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## _GG_ (17 April 2015)

Tyre kickers and time wasters may not be the problem here at all. It may well be, with a horse that is not selling, just a case that the woman who made the post on social media has a horse that is perfectly fine in terms of nothing major wrong with it and no behavioural problems, but it could be horribly put together, crappy movement etc. It could be that the owner is advertising a horse that she doesn't have and what she calls tyre kickers an time wasters are actually genuine buyers who travel to look at a horse that is not what they expected. 

As for putting to sleep a healthy horse with no issues...my heart would really struggle. It isn't natural to end a life when there is no good reason to do so. That said...I don't think we are in a position in this country at the moment to be able to fall back on the, "no good reason to do so" way of thinking. 

Anyone can read the link in my signature and it basically spells out why PTS is not the worst option for a horse. Any horse. 

The key behind my opinions on this subject is that I put what is best for a horse above what is best for a human, end of. I never want to see any horse lose it's life and it is utterly heartbreaking when you know it's happening to a horse that has no issues, but it is, ultimately, better for that horse than an uncertain future.


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## _HP_ (17 April 2015)

I think the world of my animals but if it were a case of them impacting negatively on my marriage/health/family etc and I had tried and failed to sell them, then yes, pts would be an option...a last resort but definitely an option.


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## amandap (17 April 2015)

Not something I could do. I read of people doing this and then getting another one...


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## Maesfen (17 April 2015)

ridefast said:



			I would never judge anyone else as I am not in their situation. PTS is a difficult decision but IMO there are far worse fates for a horse. I think the owner is actually being very sensible, he/she will know exactly what has happened to the horse. If finances are that bad then a loan possibly isn't worth the risk of the horse being returned. I don't judge you when the time comes for you to have yours PTS, it's not your place to judge anyone else.
		
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This completely.

It annoys the hell out of me that other people think it's anything to do with them and get in a tizz about it.  Butt out.

On the other hand, that owner brought the negativity on themselves by putting it on social media, why invite more trouble on yourself unless you enjoy the attention of PTS haters because you know that's what you're going to get.


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## pennyturner (17 April 2015)

ihatework said:



			I think it's entirely up to the owner. Sad, but better than sending to auction or 'free to a good home'
		
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If the horse is truly dangerous, otherwise useless with no prospect of redemption, then yes, but otherwise the horse doesn't care about the price tag, and would rather have 'a good home', free or otherwise than be PTS.
I don't like the 'only I can look after it properly' argument.  Lots of difficult horses would do much better with a change of owner.

My easiest (genuinely anybody's ride) horse was bought for peanuts as an un-rideable kicker from a nervous previous owner, who might well have otherwise chosen to PTS.


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## ihatework (17 April 2015)

pennyturner said:



			If the horse is truly dangerous, otherwise useless with no prospect of redemption, then yes, but otherwise the horse doesn't care about the price tag, and would rather have 'a good home', free or otherwise than be PTS.
I don't like the 'only I can look after it properly' argument.  Lots of difficult horses would do much better with a change of owner.

My easiest (genuinely anybody's ride) horse was bought for peanuts as an un-rideable kicker from a nervous previous owner, who might well have otherwise chosen to PTS.
		
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I disagree. There are too many dishonest people that prey on the 'free to a good home' scenario.
I would NEVER do that to my horses.
It's not because I don't think anyone can look after them than me, far from it, but I have seen too many dubious situations that horses end up in.

I currently own a 'free to a good home' candidate. In the wrong hands he would probably end up dead. As it is he is out on long term loan to a wonderful home, with a quality of life far far better than I could offer him - at least that way if things look like they are going pear shaped for him I can go and retrieve him (although Im 100% confident that won't be the case for him).

Another horse I owned a few years back that I needed to move on, I did via Loan with view to buy (shock horror!) .... my only motive for that was I would rather the inconvenience of taking him back and sorting out any problems if it didn't work out, than I would watch him get into the wrong hands (which could also have happened to that horse).


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## _GG_ (17 April 2015)

Maesfen said:



			This completely.

It annoys the hell out of me that other people think it's anything to do with them and get in a tizz about it.  Butt out.
		
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Absolutely agree.



pennyturner said:



			If the horse is truly dangerous, otherwise useless with no prospect of redemption, then yes, but otherwise the horse doesn't care about the price tag, and would rather have 'a good home', free or otherwise than be PTS.
I don't like the 'only I can look after it properly' argument.  Lots of difficult horses would do much better with a change of owner.

My easiest (genuinely anybody's ride) horse was bought for peanuts as an un-rideable kicker from a nervous previous owner, who might well have otherwise chosen to PTS.
		
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But it doesn't matter if a horse cares about a price tag or not and it doesn't matter that one persons trouble horse could be another persons perfect horse. What matters is that there are just simply not enough homes out there for all of the horses that need them and finding the right home for the right horse within such a situation is even more unlikely. Not impossible, but unlikely. 

At some point, somewhere, someone has to draw the line and I take my hat off to any owner that will stand up and be responsible and not put their horses into an uncertain future. 

I also won't judge a person that has one horse PTS and then gets another one. I'm sure there are some instances where it is not ideal, but when we hear these stories, unless we are directly involved, our judgement can only be based on a little bit of fact and whole lot of assumption....most of the time, we don't know the full story and it's not fair or right to put blanket judgement on all the people who do this. 

A dead horse is far better off than an unwanted one.


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## The wife (17 April 2015)

_GG_ said:



			Absolutely agree.


A dead horse is far better off than an unwanted one.
		
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This completely and so comes with it the responsibility of ensuring the fate of an animal when we take it on, problems or not. It breaks my heart every day seeing neglected animals of any species and I wish I could do something about them all or at least just point out it is our responsibility to ensure that animal has the best life possible. They trust us to do the right thing, to turn up every day, feed them and ensure they are comfortable in their surroundings - this goes for any animal be it dog, cat, horse, pig. We keep them captive for our own pleasure and gain and so to me an owner should always do what is in the best interest of that animal


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## horserugsnot4u (17 April 2015)

Firefly9410 said:



			Barnacle you are wrong about rescue centres. They will not take on horses with behavioural problems any more they only take neglected and abandoned. You are right in that most behavioural problems can be fixed with the right rider or handler but the fact is most people do not fit into that category. Often those who can fix a horse then want to sell it for a profit, meaning it could end up in another unsuitable home where the behaviour deteriorates again. I understand wanting to give the horse a chance but that is a personal opinion and not a choice I would make, too many horses are passed on again and again to various unsuitable people in the name of giving them a chance. It depends if it is behavioural problems caused by being owned by someone who is not much of a horseman or whether it is something more serious.

The person referenced in the OP I agree is looking for someone to take pity on the horse and buy it. For a horse not to sell I would guess at it being poorly advertised, over priced or there being something wrong with it, either health or behaviour. If it was a sane and healthy horse advertised in enough places with good photos and honest description someone somewhere would want it, for an appropriate price. Even if it was a dealer who bought cheaply if the owner needed a quick sale.
		
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Totally agree.  If owner has tried very hard to sell/loan said horse then you have to ask why does no one want it.  Trying to dispose of it by saying it will be PTS to get a sympathetic response is wrong as poor horse would probably end up in the wrong home and be passed from pillar to post.  I always think people who write that just want rid of the horse, don't care where it ends up but want to relieve their guilt of PTS.  Very sorry for genuine sellers who are desperate to find a home for a much loved animal but you have to think of its future life.


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## pennyturner (17 April 2015)

The people I have no time for are those who say they might have to PTS, but won't drop the price.  WTF?

By all means PTS if the horse has no (bona fide, competent) takers, even as a freebie, but saying that it 'won't sell' when it's still got three zeros after the price is some kind of emotional blackmail and just messed up.


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## Mudfukkle (17 April 2015)

I read this article the other day, it highlights a lot of the things you're all talking about.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...rses-ponies-abandoned-families-love-them.html


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## _GG_ (17 April 2015)

Mudfukkle said:



			I read this article the other day, it highlights a lot of the things you're all talking about.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...rses-ponies-abandoned-families-love-them.html

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Some rather obvious exaggerations in there like a bag of feed lasting 3 days, but...what struck me was that the ending story was about a horse that could have been put to sleep, but yet went on to breed MORE BLOODY UNWANTED HORSES!!!!!!!!!!!

I am absolutely fuming right now. We have an absolute responsibility to the animals in our care and if you are actually experiencing the issue for yourself, how the hell can you possibly justify passing on your responsibility in a way that means MORE HORSES are being brought into a crisis situation?????

I am beyond incensed right now. I do not buy the argument that it is hard. Of course it's hard. Unfortuntely, it is also utterly selfish to wallow in our own heartbreak at the cost of an animal that cannot make the choices for themselves.


It's about time people would man up and stop being so self indulgent. Life isn't fair sometimes, but that does not give anyone the right to gamble with the life of another animal.


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## milliepops (17 April 2015)

pennyturner said:



			the horse doesn't care about the price tag, and would rather have 'a good home', free or otherwise than be PTS.
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I don't believe that's a choice that a horse could comprehend. Putting it in those terms is meaningless. How could a horse rather not be pts? it doesn't know anything about the process, has no foresight or sense of impending doom.  A horse might 'rather' a field with grass in than a field without grass in, as those are things it can comprehend and choose, but you can't sit down and discuss the whys & wherefores of the various options with Dobbin over a haynet 




_GG_ said:



			A dead horse is far better off than an unwanted one.
		
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Hear, hear.

I've got a FTGH pony, who has been with me since August and has been something of a challenge. Her owner gave her to me instead of flogging to a dealer because she trusted me to do the right thing by the horse.  I made the decision very early on that if she didn't come right within a reasonable timeframe then I'd take her to the kennels rather than pass her on as it wouldn't be fair. She'd already had a hefty dose of upheaval in her life.  Fortunately she's turned a corner and is slowly turning into a super little horse so it didn't come to that, but I'm glad for *my *sake, as she would have known nothing about what 'might have been'.


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## FairyLights (17 April 2015)

Its sad but it is being responsible. There are worse things that can happen to a horse, better to PTS than live a life of misery.


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## MagicMelon (17 April 2015)

ihatework said:



			I think it's entirely up to the owner. Sad, but better than sending to auction or 'free to a good home'
		
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I don't think you can always assume the horse may end up in a bad home as this is not always the case. I know of people who have bought the saddest looking horses from auctions, the horses are then in amazing homes. And "free" horses also do not always go to bad homes - my last 2 horses have been " free" and I believe they have a wonderful home here!  I have also put one horse out on permanent loan (which is pretty much free in a way). As long as the owner vets the people who want the horse, then the risk outweighs having to kill the animal IMO. I personally would never put a healthy horse down.


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## trefnantblackknight (17 April 2015)

ihatework said:



			I think it's entirely up to the owner. Sad, but better than sending to auction or 'free to a good home'
		
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This ^^^^^^^


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## Branna (17 April 2015)

_GG_ said:



			Some rather obvious exaggerations in there like a bag of feed lasting 3 days, but...what struck me was that the ending story was about a horse that could have been put to sleep, but yet went on to breed MORE BLOODY UNWANTED HORSES!!!!!!!!!!!

I am absolutely fuming right now. We have an absolute responsibility to the animals in our care and if you are actually experiencing the issue for yourself, how the hell can you possibly justify passing on your responsibility in a way that means MORE HORSES are being brought into a crisis situation?????

I am beyond incensed right now. I do not buy the argument that it is hard. Of course it's hard. Unfortuntely, it is also utterly selfish to wallow in our own heartbreak at the cost of an animal that cannot make the choices for themselves.


It's about time people would man up and stop being so self indulgent. Life isn't fair sometimes, but that does not give anyone the right to gamble with the life of another animal.
		
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Completely agree, I couldn't believe when I read that part


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## Shantara (17 April 2015)

milliepops said:



			I don't believe that's a choice that a horse could comprehend. Putting it in those terms is meaningless. How could a horse rather not be pts? it doesn't know anything about the process, has no foresight or sense of impending doom.
		
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Of course horses don't want to die! They know what death is. Why do you think they take off sideways at 100mph and ditch us humans on the floor on a regular basis? Because they don't want to get eaten by the hedge lion! It once took me 10mins to get Ned past a scarecrow, because he assumed it might want to kill him and he had to figure out that it wasn't going to! 
I think we're just lucky that they don't know what a gun is, because a healthy horse certainly doesn't want to die.


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## 3OldPonies (17 April 2015)

flaxen said:



			A top vet friend of mine did a talk locally last night on old horses and I went along to support him and he brought up the subject of euthanising old horses.  His words are the horse doesnt care whether hes dead or alive and doesnt think Im going to die in 3 days, its sad for the owner but the horse doesnt care less. If more owners took the sensible option of euthanising the old, lame, unrideable unwanted there wouldn't be the amount of neglected abandoned ones there is especially when older horses need more care and expense. I was talking to him at the end about stuff we talk about privately and a vet that was there came up and started discussing about owners will not listen to vets about when its time to pts and better a day to soon than a day too late and that the owners always say one more summer/ week / etc.
		
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I'm glad I don't have a vet with such a low opinion of old horses and their owners - I would have walked out at that statement had I been there.  My two are both retired, one you could probably call ancient.  But, they are happy and I am happy, I don't need to ride and hadn't for years until a friend offered me the ride on one of hers.  They have their health issues, but they are not insurmountable or unmanageable, in fact I have friends with younger horses who have far more trouble than I do!  My boys may have put their most active years behind them but they mean the world to me and I certainly would not consider putting them to sleep in order to take on anything younger, casting off the old for the benefit of the young is not the way to solve the welfare crisis.  

As to the topic of the thread, there are obviously worse things that PTS if a horse can't be sold, but there are also other options and I would very much hope that PTS is the last resort and not a reaction to a few time wasters responding to an advert.  I also agree with some other posters who said that sometimes owners can imagine their horse isn't saleable due to personality quirks, it's just that it might take longer to find someone else who can manage a particular foible.  All those people with horses like that got them from somewhere, and learnt how to deal with them, I can't believe they are *all *homebred and so have never been with another owner.


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## Arizahn (17 April 2015)

I've been mulling this over lately myself. There are moments when I wonder why I have these large, impossibly fragile animals in my life at all; mostly due to health issues on my part. I'm extremely uncomfortable with the thought of selling; I would do my best to find them both good homes, but what if I got it wrong? There are so many stupid and unpleasant people out there. Too many horses needing good homes as it is. 

So I think on balance that if/when I reach the point where I can't manage them, I will simply PTS to be safe.


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## honetpot (17 April 2015)

I think selling a horse takes effort and preparation, you have set backs, people don't turn up or do not think your gem is the right one for them and then some people get disheartened by the whole process, which I think you should set aside at least 3months, a bit like selling a house
 You only have to look at some the appalling ads in H&H, people have actually spent money to make their horse look like a three legged donkey. I know H&H doesn't want people advertising on the forum but it could really do with a tweak my ad forum, so people could get really good advice and perhaps a discount for placing it with H&H, where you get the most knowledgeable buyers from.
  If you have advertised it well, been honest with its faults and there is no Mr or Mrs right for them I think there is no shame in saying I would rather say goodbye on my terms then send your horse off to an uncertain future.
 I have recently taken back a pony who I sold four years ago to a knowledgeable but obviously in the long term not the right home. He has gone to a top class pony full of potential to something someone was giving away for free, and I got him back for the cost of the diesel, from a lead from an ad on FB. He is fit and well, but is not the pony he was, and it breaks my heart, and that's with an expensive pony.
  Everyone seems to be looking for the perfect horse, which needs little work to be sane, not needing a very good rider to ride it and it must just about turn its hoof to anything, and for this most want to pay peanuts for this paragon. There are just too few people about who have the knowledge, time and patience to work with anything that has any 'problems', which most of the time seem to be lack of training of the rider and horse.
   The horse market like the housing market seems to be dividing, people paying well for a well trained, well behaved horse that someone has put the miles on the clock and the people who want something for nothing, and end up getting something with more problems than they have the knowledge for, but unfortunately fixing a horse is a lot more complicated than doing up a house.


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## milliepops (17 April 2015)

Chan said:



			Of course horses don't want to die! They know what death is. Why do you think they take off sideways at 100mph and ditch us humans on the floor on a regular basis? Because they don't want to get eaten by the hedge lion! It once took me 10mins to get Ned past a scarecrow, because he assumed it might want to kill him and he had to figure out that it wasn't going to! 
I think we're just lucky that they don't know what a gun is, because a healthy horse certainly doesn't want to die.
		
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That's a different issue though.  A horse has a sense of self preservation, obviously.  But a horse whose owner is facing the choice of selling, giving away or pts can not possibly have any comprehension of that decision. Therefore you couldn't say it would rather one option or the other. How would you explain the options to the horse? 

 I don't deny the survival instinct, but that's not actually relevant in the purely human dilemma described


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## hairycob (18 April 2015)

If only there were enough competent owners for all the difficult horses. Sadly there aren't. Even more sadly there are plenty of people without that ability who think they do have it. And even more sad than that there are people like a woman  I know who collect free/£tiny horses to fulfil their own desires then bog off & abandon them.


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## Mince Pie (18 April 2015)

The wife, it's a shame that you decided to read one post (and then edit it out at that!) rather than the full story. I am the OP of that post, the horse is for sale due to my rapidly failing physical and mental health issues. The horse is question is a bin end cob pony who is not a novice ride, doesn't handle traffic in company or alone and is very sharp to ride. I'm selling from the field so am asking peanuts, but then if you had read the comments you would see I had said all that. You would also see that another member of the group, who knows my boy, is helping me try and find him a home - you really think I want to shoot my best friend?!

Thank you for the extra kick whilst I am at my lowest.


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## Mince Pie (18 April 2015)

The wife said:



			Having had time to think about it a bit more, I think she/he is being quite sensible about it as I see hundreds of adverts at dirt cheap prices and just know it isn't going to end well for that horse.
		
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You read the comments then....


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## milliepops (18 April 2015)

Mince Pie said:



			The wife, it's a shame that you decided to read one post (and then edit it out at that!) rather than the full story. I am the OP of that post, the horse is for sale due to my rapidly failing physical and mental health issues. The horse is question is a bin end cob pony who is not a novice ride, doesn't handle traffic in company or alone and is very sharp to ride. I'm selling from the field so am asking peanuts, but then if you had read the comments you would see I had said all that. You would also see that another member of the group, who knows my boy, is helping me try and find him a home - you really think I want to shoot my best friend?!

Thank you for the extra kick whilst I am at my lowest.
		
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sorry to hear about your predicament MP.  You WILL find the right solution, and you don't have to answer to anyone.  I hope things improve for you.


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## Mince Pie (18 April 2015)

The original, unedited post:

Can I ask you to ask what people's opinions are on shooting a healthy horse because they are unable to sell it? I have numerous physical and mental health issues which bring with them financial issues. I've being trying to sell my horse but have had nothing but "tyre kickers" and I'm struggling to cope with it. I'm getting to the point where I an just thinking of pts. I don't want to have to as he is my soul mate but i can't see another way? I'm having to sell from the field which doesn't help!


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## risky business (18 April 2015)

I think as owners we should always do our best to secure good safe homes for our horses. If we cannot do this and no else can either then there are far worse things than death.


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## Swift08 (18 April 2015)

I go by "there are fates worse than death" with any animal. It's heartbreaking for an owner, but if for whatever reason, there is the option of being PTS then at least by doing so you will always know where they have ended up. 
Having suffered the backlash for having a 7yo put down (who had an unusual medical condition, was retired and was costing the earth in vet bills), I know many people do not like the PTS option, but sometimes it has to be done. My last image of him was with a mouthful of grass, in the sun, before going down to 'sleep'. It's better than wondering where he is and if he is okay.
Horses don't think like we do. Most are happy in a field with grass! They certainly wouldn't realise that today may be their last day. 
Death really isn't the worst thing in the world, for any animal.


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## julie111 (18 April 2015)

I have a rising 6 yo cob who I retired last October, he was unsound on and off intermittently for around a year and a half, x rays showed a roughening of bone on his pasterns, the lameness had been in both hinds and a front. I am lucky that I found a field a couple of miles away that I pay £30 a month for, he is in a stable herd and wants for nothing. If I lost that grazing and I couldn't find anything else cheap then I would pts. Most of the time he is completely sound but there is no way I would sell him or loan him as a light hack etc he is too precious to me.


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