# Utopia to be sold at Auction with no reserve..



## Damnation (28 April 2016)

Carl Hester must be gutted 

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/uthopia-sold-auction-533879

ETA: Title should be spelt "Uthopia".. Can't change it now!


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## Amymay (28 April 2016)

Just awful&#128544;


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## Circe (29 April 2016)

I saw on his facebook page that he was very upset about it, and is trying to find a solution where he can keep Uthopia.
He has asked people not to give to a fund to buy him.
I really hope he is able to keep him, and give him the retirement he deserves.
Kx


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## ester (29 April 2016)

I don't understand all the hoo ha tbh, or the willingness of people to contribute to gofundme pages arranged by random people who could easily just do a flit with the money! And that is before we get started on the lottery funding suggestion. 
I am sure if Carl wishes to buy him he is perfectly capable arranging funding himself.


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## TGM (29 April 2016)

I think much of the concern is not just that the horse is up for sale, but that he is to be sold 'at auction', which makes people think that he will just be sold to the highest bidder without any consideration for whether the home is right for him.  I suppose they have visions of him going through the ring at one of the dead end sale rings!

But I do agree the gofundme bit beggars belief!


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## Sleighfarer (29 April 2016)

TGM said:



			I think much of the concern is not just that the horse is up for sale, but that he is to be sold 'at auction', which makes people think that he will just be sold to the highest bidder without any consideration for whether the home is right for him.  I suppose they have visions of him going through the ring at one of the dead end sale rings!

But I do agree the gofundme bit beggars belief!
		
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But isn't that exactly what is going to happen? He's not going to be sold at a horse auction - he is going to be sold along with the sports cars and trinkets, to the highest bidder..


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## TGM (29 April 2016)

Sleighfarer said:



			But isn't that exactly what is going to happen? He's not going to be sold at a horse auction - he is going to be sold along with the sports cars and trinkets, to the highest bidder..
		
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I have no idea what form the auction will take and whether there will be any safeguards for the horse's welfare put in place.  Like most people on here I have only read the brief statement that has been published.  The point of my post was to highlight exactly why people felt emotive about the issue.


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## WandaMare (29 April 2016)

I think that it is very sweet that people offered funding to help Carl, I know he has said not to now anyway but it was very kind of people to offer their help and support so willingly.


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## AdorableAlice (29 April 2016)

ester said:



			I don't understand all the hoo ha tbh, or the willingness of people to contribute to gofundme pages arranged by random people who could easily just do a flit with the money! And that is before we get started on the lottery funding suggestion. 
I am sure if Carl wishes to buy him he is perfectly capable arranging funding himself.
		
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I tend to agree.  The horse stood for a fee of £1500, it will be a while before any progeny prove themselves to be top class. Most stallions are a grand age before their progeny hit real heights.  The horse is 15 years old and apparently has health issues.  If a purchaser wanted to buy him as a top flight competition horse it would be a very short lived exercise, even if the horse could return to top level and do all the travelling required of international dressage horses.  Aimed at the next games the horse will be 19.  A wise buyer will realise every inch of greatness had already been milked out of the horse by Carl.  The horse has had his day and any progression will be downwards as his age and issues climb.

Realistically what is he actually worth ?  I don't think he is worth a figure that is not within what Carl and his backers could buy him for if they wanted to give him a home for life and stand him at stud.  He was, and that is the crucial word, was a top dressage horse, he is now an ageing stallion that might be able to make a short lived return to competition.  He is not Frankel.

He will get a decent home, he is not going through Beeston.  It will be interesting to see what he goes for, if it is made public.  I bet it won't be a much as some people think it will be.


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## ester (29 April 2016)

WandaMare said:



			I think that it is very sweet that people offered funding to help Carl, I know he has said not to now anyway but it was very kind of people to offer their help and support so willingly.
		
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But when that support is monetary and going into gofundmes owned by random and potentially unscrupulous people?


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## case895 (29 April 2016)

TGM said:



			I have no idea what form the auction will take and whether there will be any safeguards for the horse's welfare put in place.  Like most people on here I have only read the brief statement that has been published.  The point of my post was to highlight exactly why people felt emotive about the issue.
		
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Horse auctions take place all over the place most weeks. The only difference is that this one involves a well known horse.


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## neddy man (29 April 2016)

The auctioneers will milk it for all their worth,everyone will know where and when.


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## WandaMare (29 April 2016)

ester said:



			But when that support is monetary and going into gofundmes owned by random and potentially unscrupulous people?
		
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Whether it was right to offer money is a different point, I was just saying it was a very kind gesture of people to try and help.


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## FubsyMog (29 April 2016)

I have actually just seen it announced that he is to be sold at the auctioneers just up the road from me. I noticed the name of the auction house on a news item, but thought it must just have been one of the same name, but it is indeed the local one. It will be one of their prestige auctions, along with high-value jewellery, cars etc. 

http://www.wilsonsauctions.com/specialist-search-results/1266


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## JANANI (30 April 2016)

I wonder will he be ridden around Mallusk lol. Might go up for a nosy. At the end of the day the horse will be mega bucks and will end up with a good home. The people I feel sorry for is the creditors who have been waiting a long time for this.


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## popsdosh (30 April 2016)

JANANI said:



			I wonder will he be ridden around Mallusk lol. Might go up for a nosy. At the end of the day the horse will be mega bucks and will end up with a good home. The people I feel sorry for is the creditors who have been waiting a long time for this.
		
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I will be very surprised if he is actually present at the sale as I dont think the auctioneers will feel it nescessary. I suspect CH may already been given the option to buy him with a bit more cooperation. There is more to this story than a lot are aware of I am sure. Im sure it will come out one day.


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## Charlie007 (30 April 2016)

Have just read that carl hopes he has secured enough money through owners to buy the horse and secure his future x


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## FubsyMog (30 April 2016)

JANANI said:



			I wonder will he be ridden around Mallusk lol. Might go up for a nosy. .
		
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From what I can discern, he won't be present - the thought did cross my mind when I saw where it was! I had thought of going up for a nosy as well, but I'm not sure whether you can do that for the prestige auctions? It wasn't that clear from the website, but it said you have to leave a deposit of £500 just to register as a potential bidder - not sure whether you have to be a bidder to attend. You don't for the other auctions they run, but not sure if the prestige ones are different.


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## JANANI (30 April 2016)

the moral of the story is if your bankrupt don't attempt to hide your assets as it will it bite you in the arse!

Ps I was being sarky when I said about him being ridden around Mallusk


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## popsdosh (1 May 2016)

JANANI said:



			the moral of the story is if your bankrupt don't attempt to hide your assets as it will it bite you in the arse!

Ps I was being sarky when I said about him being ridden around Mallusk
		
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Yes and dont become part of it either.


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## Alec Swan (1 May 2016)

The Auction House is the best place to judge the value of anything.

Alec.


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## eahotson (2 May 2016)

Alec Swan said:



			The Auction House is the best place to judge the value of anything.

Alec.
		
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The cost of anything, the value of nothing.


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## Damnation (27 May 2016)

Well, today is the day Uthopia goes under the hammer.

I have my fingers crossed he stays with Carl.


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## Nicnac (27 May 2016)

Fascinating article in H&H about his value which comes out at about £228k when calculated using economics.  I think some people really overrated his value as were doing it using emotion rather than facts.  Adorable Alice was absolutely right and the article reflects some of the points she made higher up in this thread well before article was published.

Auction will be live via H&H home page from 6pm tonight but no idea what time Uti will go under the hammer - assume he's not there!


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## Damnation (27 May 2016)

Nicnac said:



			Fascinating article in H&H about his value which comes out at about £228k when calculated using economics.  I think some people really overrated his value as were doing it using emotion rather than facts.  Adorable Alice was absolutely right and the article reflects some of the points she made higher up in this thread well before article was published.

Auction will be live via H&H home page from 6pm tonight but no idea what time Uti will go under the hammer - assume he's not there!
		
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No Uti will be at Carl's yard, he won't be appearing live at the auction!

AA and the article did use some very good points.. fascinating to think of it like that!


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## Sleighfarer (27 May 2016)

Although I take Alice's points on the economics of it, the sort of people who will want to buy him don't have to worry too much about that. It's nice of H&H to do its bit trying to put buyers off, but a market is a market. If I were a Russian oligarch or Chinese billionaire wanting to propel my daughter on to the world dressage stage I wouldn't be too concerned about the cost. 

Nor am I convinced about the 'health issues'. I think these are likely to be chronic conditions that need managing rather than him being broken down. Uti won an international class at Olympia a mere five months ago and was all set to go to the World Cup in the spring until the ownership dispute put a stop to it. It seems fairly clear that he was being got ready to be Charlotte's reserve horse for Rio, which hardly makes him washed up. No, he won't make the next Olympics, but he's got a good couple of years left in him, I would have thought.

It will be nail biting, though. I really hope Carl can keep him.


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## popsdosh (27 May 2016)

The health issues are being well over played ,what misinformation would you put about if you were trying to buy him cheap! Its not like he is being sold by an owner Carl needs to support. I feel sorry for the creditors im afraid as everybody is trying to talk his value down and they lose out. Why do you think their in this mess to start with ,he could have been sold ages ago when worth more apart from the challenges thrown in to try to deceive the authorities.


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## ihatework (27 May 2016)

Does anyone know if this is planned to live stream?


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## Meowy Catkin (27 May 2016)

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/dressage/uthopia-auction-live-541693


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## Damnation (27 May 2016)

Well whatever the outcome, I just hope it is what is best for the horse. If Carl cannot keep Uti, I hope that whoever gets him will continue to provide him with the standard of care and horsemanship this horse is used to.


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## neddy man (27 May 2016)

Faracat said:



http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/dressage/uthopia-auction-live-541693

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bump


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## neddy man (27 May 2016)

Uti is lot 80 they are on about 37 now  click the link to see results


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## tallyho! (27 May 2016)

Keeping an eye...


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## Alec Swan (27 May 2016)

neddy man said:



			Uti is lot 80 they are on about 37 now  click the link to see results
		
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Can you provide a link for the site?

Alec.


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## Alec Swan (27 May 2016)

His value?  Well I've just read a report from Alice Collins,  and considering that his previous foals haven't achieved prominence,  and that given time,  he may prove to be a top class schoolmaster,  she's estimated about a £quarter-mill.

My honest opinion?  There will either be two people who will fight for the horse,  and for the kudos of ownership,  or he'll peak at about £140-50k.

Alec.


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## neddy man (27 May 2016)

Alec Swan said:



			Can you provide a link for the site?

Alec.
		
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number 31 on this thread, just click it. on lot 68 now, not long to go.


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## neddy man (27 May 2016)

3 lots to go


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## KautoStar1 (27 May 2016)

Apparently he's just sold for £165K.    Don't know who too.  Let's hope it's Carl.


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## Alec Swan (27 May 2016)

He sold for £165k.  

Not sure what to think.  A deal?  Probably not,  sadly.

He's only a horse,  and those who were forced to sell the animal have creditors to face.

Alec.


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## ihatework (27 May 2016)

Alec Swan said:



			He sold for £165k.  

Not sure what to think.  A deal?  Probably not,  sadly.

He's only a horse,  and those who were forced to sell the animal have creditors to face.

Alec.
		
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I'd hope at that price he would have been withing reach for Carl/Investors, so hopefully good news.


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## popsdosh (27 May 2016)

ihatework said:



			I'd hope at that price he would have been withing reach for Carl/Investors, so hopefully good news.
		
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Realistically Carl and his investors why would they pay that for a 15yo. Sorry that would be my thinking.

Anybody offered me that for any 15yo I would bite their hand off. Carl has a yard full of potential why buy at that price a horse that will quickly decline.


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## Alec Swan (27 May 2016)

popsdosh said:



			Realistically Carl and his investors why would they pay that for a 15yo. Sorry that would be my thinking.
		
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Interesting,  in his prime,  I wonder what the horse would have been worth.  Someone has lost an awful lot of dosh,  as have their creditors,  I suspect.

Alec.


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## ihatework (27 May 2016)

popsdosh said:



			Realistically Carl and his investors why would they pay that for a 15yo. Sorry that would be my thinking.

Anybody offered me that for any 15yo I would bite their hand off. Carl has a yard full of potential why buy at that price a horse that will quickly decline.
		
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For sentimental reasons. 
It would not surprise me in the slightest if a wealthy supporter handed over the money just because they could afford to.


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## Alec Swan (27 May 2016)

The DG reckons that Katie Price bought him!  It wouldn't surprise me! 

Alec.


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## popsdosh (27 May 2016)

Alec Swan said:



			Interesting,  in his prime,  I wonder what the horse would have been worth.  Someone has lost an awful lot of dosh,  as have their creditors,  I suspect.

Alec.
		
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Some know why they have lost so much ,he would have made more 2years ago as a prospect for Rio however a lot of spanners were thrown in the pot that stopped the sale happening then. People conveniently forget the subterfuge going on then which has lost the creditors a lot of money.


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## crabbymare (27 May 2016)

I look at it as being 110 mares at 1500 each. plus a few more for the cost of keeping him. its doable if they were to advertise him widely and have him approved for continental studbooks as it looks as if he is currently only with the kwpn so if they want to register for local studbooks a lot of german breeders cannot use him


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## popsdosh (27 May 2016)

Alec Swan said:



			The DG reckons that Katie Price bought him!  It wouldn't surprise me! 

Alec.
		
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Shell look good in sitting trot!


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## Mrs B (27 May 2016)

ihatework said:



			For sentimental reasons. 
It would not surprise me in the slightest if a wealthy supporter handed over the money just because they could afford to.
		
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Ah but by now, you should realise that whoever Popsdosh is, they have no room for sentiment. I think the clue is in the name, somewhere ...


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## ihatework (27 May 2016)

Mrs B said:



			Ah but by now, you should realise that whoever Popsdosh is, they have no room for sentiment. I think the clue is in the name, somewhere ...

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Aww, I'm sure there is a heart in there somewhere!!


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## popsdosh (27 May 2016)

crabbymare said:



			I look at it as being 110 mares at 1500 each. plus a few more for the cost of keeping him. its doable if they were to advertise him widely and have him approved for continental studbooks as it looks as if he is currently only with the kwpn so if they want to register for local studbooks a lot of german breeders cannot use him
		
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Who wants to use him,nobody seriously breeding dressage horses. Sorry he is not stud material none of his youngsters have come through ,Totilas all over again!


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## Alec Swan (27 May 2016)

crabbymare said:



			I look at it as being 110 mares at 1500 each. plus a few more for the cost of keeping him. its doable if they were to advertise him widely and have him approved for continental studbooks as it looks as if he is currently only with the kwpn so if they want to register for local studbooks a lot of german breeders cannot use him
		
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De Niro only covered 40 UK mares last year.  Utopia has soundness problems,  he's perhaps a bit small and his stock produced to date have barely excelled.  The figure of a book of 110 mares would surprise me.

Alice Collins thought that he'd sell at £228k+.  I reckoned £140-50k.  Despite his performance record,  as a future prospect for breeding,  he really isn't out of the top draw,  sadly.

Alec.


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## popsdosh (27 May 2016)

Mrs B said:



			Ah but by now, you should realise that whoever Popsdosh is, they have no room for sentiment. I think the clue is in the name, somewhere ...

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Sorry to say you will find very little room for sentiment in the top yards . They run as businesses 165k for a 15yo on the way down or 165k for an up and coming 5yo I know where Carl would spend the money. The future of his business of course.
Investors invest money to create an income not to see it decline.


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## Alec Swan (27 May 2016)

Mrs B said:



			Ah but by now, you should realise that whoever Popsdosh is, they have no room for sentiment. I think the clue is in the name, somewhere ...

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Sentiment all to often leads to bankruptcy.  Ask those who sold the horse.

Alec.


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## KautoStar1 (27 May 2016)

I don't think the money and the horses potential is really what Carl and his investors are concerned about. What they wanted to do and let's hope they have, is secure the future for the horse in terms of his well being.  Carl has had him since he was 3 or 4.  He's taken him to gold medals. Maybe he just wants to do the best for his 'friend'.    Sad world when there is no room for sentiment these days even in business.  Carl has put his horse first before anything else.  I hope it's worked out for team Hester.


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## popsdosh (27 May 2016)

Mrs B said:



			Ah but by now, you should realise that whoever Popsdosh is, they have no room for sentiment. I think the clue is in the name, somewhere ...

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Oh on the user name you could not be further from the truth if you tried it never pays to try and second guess user names ! LOL


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## AdorableAlice (27 May 2016)

AdorableAlice said:



			I tend to agree.  The horse stood for a fee of £1500, it will be a while before any progeny prove themselves to be top class. Most stallions are a grand age before their progeny hit real heights.  The horse is 15 years old and apparently has health issues.  If a purchaser wanted to buy him as a top flight competition horse it would be a very short lived exercise, even if the horse could return to top level and do all the travelling required of international dressage horses.  Aimed at the next games the horse will be 19.  A wise buyer will realise every inch of greatness had already been milked out of the horse by Carl.  The horse has had his day and any progression will be downwards as his age and issues climb.

Realistically what is he actually worth ?  I don't think he is worth a figure that is not within what Carl and his backers could buy him for if they wanted to give him a home for life and stand him at stud.  He was, and that is the crucial word, was a top dressage horse, he is now an ageing stallion that might be able to make a short lived return to competition.  He is not Frankel.

He will get a decent home, he is not going through Beeston.  It will be interesting to see what he goes for, if it is made public.  I bet it won't be a much as some people think it will be.
		
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I rest my case.


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## popsdosh (27 May 2016)

KautoStar1 said:



			I don't think the money and the horses potential is really what Carl and his investors are concerned about. What they wanted to do and let's hope they have, is secure the future for the horse in terms of his well being.  Carl has had him since he was 3 or 4.  He's taken him to gold medals. Maybe he just wants to do the best for his 'friend'.    Sad world when there is no room for sentiment these days even in business.  Carl has put his horse first before anything else.  I hope it's worked out for team Hester.
		
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Lets be realistic here who is really going to spend that money and let him rot in the field its not going to happen. As I said earlier much has been made of the horse having issues yet he was still up for competing maybe more was made of his issues than was strictly needed to be.


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## noname (27 May 2016)

popsdosh said:



			Who wants to use him,nobody seriously breeding dressage horses. Sorry he is not stud material none of his youngsters have come through ,Totilas all over again!
		
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Totilas has some decent youngsters coming through the grades and some colts approved. He's oldest offspring would not yet be ready for GP so a bit early to tell.

Utopia does have some reasonable stuff considering the quality of mares in the UK. But £165K probably does not cover the legal fees spent over the last few years, since London, trying to establish who owned him!!


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## Alec Swan (27 May 2016)

KautoStar1 said:



			I don't think the money and the horses potential is really what Carl and his investors are concerned about. &#8230;&#8230;.. .
		
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I wish that I had your faith in mankind.

Alec.


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## popsdosh (27 May 2016)

noname said:



			Totilas has some decent youngsters coming through the grades and some colts approved. He's oldest offspring would not yet be ready for GP so a bit early to tell.

Utopia does have some reasonable stuff considering the quality of mares in the UK. But £165K probably does not cover the legal fees spent over the last few years, since London, trying to establish who owned him!!
		
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Yes the smoke and mirrors!


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## Alec Swan (27 May 2016)

Alec Swan said:



			The Auction House is the best place to judge the value of anything.

Alec.
		
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eahotson said:



			The cost of anything, the value of nothing.
		
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The horse now has an established value,  would you agree?  Not what the creditors had hoped for,  I'm sure,  but the auction ring has now declared his worth,  and to the final bidder.

Alec.


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## popsdosh (27 May 2016)

I may be totally off the mark however the length of time to hear who the successful bidder is may be very telling with regard his future.


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## KautoStar1 (27 May 2016)

Alec Swan said:



			I wish that I had your faith in mankind.

Alec.
		
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Not mankind Alec but I do think Carl cares very much for this horse.
Perhaps I'm a bit nieve but wouldn't it be nice if someone did something nice just because they could and not because there was something in it for them.


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## ihatework (27 May 2016)

popsdosh said:



			I may be totally off the mark however the length of time to hear who the successful bidder is may be very telling with regard his future.
		
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Yes, you would have thought an announcement  by now from Hester camp if they had secured him.


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## KautoStar1 (27 May 2016)

ihatework said:



			Yes, you would have thought an announcement  by now from Hester camp if they had secured him.
		
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Things have to be rubber stamped, funds transferred & all sorts of paperwork. Perhaps it's just a case of making sure everything is in order before confirming. 
I wouldn't read to much in to the delay.


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## popsdosh (27 May 2016)

KautoStar1 said:



			Things have to be rubber stamped, funds transferred & all sorts of paperwork. Perhaps it's just a case of making sure everything is in order before confirming. 
I wouldn't read to much in to the delay.
		
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The funds would have needed to be secure before being allowed to bid.


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## KautoStar1 (27 May 2016)

popsdosh said:



			The funds would have needed to be secure before being allowed to bid.
		
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I being general but you know what I mean !


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## Alec Swan (27 May 2016)

KautoStar1 said:



			Not mankind Alec but I do think Carl cares very much for this horse.
Perhaps I'm a bit nieve but wouldn't it be nice if someone did something nice just because they could and not because there was something in it for them.
		
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There are very few who will do £165K's worth of 'something nice' in this world.  These horses,  the support systems and the costs of their production would,  by Utopia's stage in life,  have them relegated to retirement.  Why do you suppose that he was offered for sale with no reserve?  Had there been a ready buyer at £1mill +,  then do you not think that the owners would have taken it?

I've no doubt that Carl's a caring chap,  but there's a price attached to everything,  and every one.

Alec.


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## KautoStar1 (27 May 2016)

Well yes Alec I know what you mean.   And let's not forget he wasn't actually Carl's horse to sell in the first place.  He's been trying to buy him for himself to secure the horses future.  I'm sure Carl has some wealthy supporters who between them can rustle up a few quid for him.


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## Alec Swan (27 May 2016)

KautoStar1 said:



			Well yes Alec I know what you mean.   And let's not forget he wasn't actually Carl's horse to sell in the first place.  He's been trying to buy him for himself to secure the horses future.  I'm sure Carl has some wealthy supporters who between them can rustle up a few quid for him.
		
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Yes dear,  but have they?  The horse has been a good servant to many,  Carl included,  and I'd venture to suggest that if the combine which supports his former rider haven't bought the horse,  then shame on them.  Considering the previous value of the horse because of his achievements,  I'd suggest that in the world of top class dressage £165k is small change.

We'll see!!

Alec.


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## ester (27 May 2016)

Well if they couldn't afford him at that price I don't what price they thought they would afford him at.


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## Honey08 (27 May 2016)

Rumours starting on Facebook that they didn't get him. &#55357;&#56897;


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## Honey08 (28 May 2016)

People saying Shokemole (sp!).  Has anyone heard anything?


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## AdorableAlice (28 May 2016)

Honey08 said:



			People saying Shokemole (sp!).  Has anyone heard anything?
		
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He does run a big stallion business, Euro Stallions or similar.


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## hackneylass2 (28 May 2016)

Oh dear!


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## marotelle (28 May 2016)

Oh I hope not,that poor horse does not deserve that.



hackneylass2 said:



			Oh dear!
		
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## ihatework (28 May 2016)

Honey08 said:



			People saying Shokemole (sp!).  Has anyone heard anything?
		
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That would be a bad outcome


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## popsdosh (28 May 2016)

Why Speculate,
I think Carl will need to keep his head down if they didnt buy him at that price as loads on the Forums thought he would make a lot more.Sort of mocks what was said leading up to the sale. Maybe hard headed business sense took over after all.  I will be Gobsmacks if PS bought him as he is really not that great a breeding proposition. He has been available for some time but not flying out of the Flask so to speak


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## popsdosh (28 May 2016)

marotelle said:



			Oh I hope not,that poor horse does not deserve that.
		
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Would you care to elaborate!


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## ycbm (28 May 2016)

Alec Swan said:



			Yes dear,  but have they?  The horse has been a good servant to many,  Carl included,  and I'd venture to suggest that if the combine which supports his former rider haven't bought the horse,  then shame on them.  Considering the previous value of the horse because of his achievements,  I'd suggest that in the world of top class dressage £165k is small change.

We'll see!!

Alec.
		
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True.

At his previous stud fee they'll be making a fat profit out of him once they sell over 120 straws of semen to a worldwide market. And more if any of his offspring start to perform really well.


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## popsdosh (28 May 2016)

ycbm said:



			True.

At his previous stud fee they'll be making a fat profit out of him once they sell over 120 straws of semen to a worldwide market. And more if any of his offspring start to perform really well.
		
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Thats assuming they sell a 120 straws!

I really fail to see why there seems to be so much sympathy over this story perhaps some should have sympathy for the creditors who have had to fight hard to get to this stage with all sorts of tricks used to block them maybe some may find this enlightening. http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/n...ns-this-7m-olympic-wonder-horse-28786733.html

Bit of a difference 4 years make to his value


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## elliefiz (28 May 2016)

popsdosh said:



			Thats assuming they sell a 120 straws!

I really fail to see why there seems to be so much sympathy over this story perhaps some should have sympathy for the creditors who have had to fight hard to get to this stage with all sorts of tricks used to block them maybe some may find this enlightening. http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/n...ns-this-7m-olympic-wonder-horse-28786733.html

Bit of a difference 4 years make to his value
		
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One of very few sensible comments I have seen anywhere regarding this issue. Such vitriol being directed at the auctioneers, the new owner and indeed anyone who might have had an interest in buying the horse, when in reality this issue has been dragged out for 6 years by the owner who tried to hold onto her horse by engaging in dishonest and quite frankly fraudulent practises. I'm sure if she had admitted to owning the horse at the beginning, the sales process would have been handled in a much different fashion.


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## oldie48 (28 May 2016)

Surely most people's posts have been about concern for the horse's future welfare. although Carl and Charlotte have had brilliant results with him, I get the strong impression that he's not a horse you can compete regularly, not because of soundness issues but because he doesn't enjoy it that much and easily gets a bit sour (like a lot of stallions) and drops his rider in the middle of a test. If he's been sold to Paul Shockenmohle, then I think it could be his dream ticket, spending the rest of his life "doing what comes naturally" and going to the odd stallion show. I've a friend with a lovely horse by Uthopia out of Section D mare and I'm quite envious as he moves beautifully, looks fabulous and has a great temperament, Uti was very young and she got a great bargain.


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## HashRouge (28 May 2016)

ester said:



			Well if they couldn't afford him at that price I don't what price they thought they would afford him at.
		
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I agree with that. Makes you wonder how serious they were about buying him.

Although I suppose we don't know for sure yet who has him.


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## elliefiz (28 May 2016)

this idea he has sold to Schockemohle seems to have stemmed from Heather Moffat on Facebook trying to give the impression she has insider knowledge which seems very bizarre given that she doesn't seem terribly discreet so I doubt anyone has told her anything before a public statement has been released. I can't find anyone else claiming to have been told it's Schockemohle who bought him. I agree with the previous poster who is doubtful that he actually did sell to Schockemohle given that Uthopia isn't exactly an in demand sire. Going to Germany wouldn't strike me as a wise decision financially as I can't imagine he is very popular over there so his stud earnings would be seriously limited.


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## ester (28 May 2016)

At least it stopped all the ridiculous gofundme pages, amazing how many people will hand over dosh to complete randomers :eek3:.

oldie48 his soundness has been pretty questionable though too?


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## honetpot (28 May 2016)

HashRouge said:



			I agree with that. Makes you wonder how serious they were about buying him.

Although I suppose we don't know for sure yet who has him.
		
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  If you were clever it would be better to form a syndicate of all the like minded people who would have perhaps put in a bid and have only one bidder. At all auctions you need just need two bidders who really want something to inflate the price.

   I just hope he has found a buyer that will understand how to keep him. There is nothing so sad as seeing a good horse especially a stallion being passed from pillar to post, I know of a couple of dressage stallions, one of which in his day was well respected, that ended in a low end dealers yard covering black and whites with no papers.


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## eahotson (28 May 2016)

Alec Swan said:



			The horse now has an established value,  would you agree?  Not what the creditors had hoped for,  I'm sure,  but the auction ring has now declared his worth,  and to the final bidder.

Alec.
		
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No Alex I do not agree with you.You are confusing worth (commercial) and value.As an example my little dog is a very valuable dog.  To me.Her commercial worth? Nothing I would think.


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## Alec Swan (28 May 2016)

There are many decent and well regarded horses which end up on a downhill slide as they pass from one owner to the next,  with just about all of the new owners being reliant upon the kudos attached to ownership.  

I also wonder,  and considering that the sale price of £165k was but a fraction of his previous worth,  it still remains a great deal of money.  Why would someone buy him at that sort of cost,  even were it simply for the vanity factor?  Is anyone that shallow that they'll lay out a considerable sum,  and simply to inflate their own sense of worth?  

Will he stand at stud?  The cost of keeping and managing a stallion of that caliber (as a competing horse,  that is),  would have me wonder if the stud fees will ever allow them to recoup the initial cost.  I also notice that there seemed to be a lack of any semen reports as to their viability from either chilled or frozen usage.

Strangely,  I honestly thing that Utopia was a very expensive horse at the price just realised.  I will be delighted to be wrong on all counts! 

Alec.


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## tristar (28 May 2016)

i really have`nt a clue what`s going on! a load of speculation no doubt.

however auctions produce bizarre results, sometimes things sell for more, and are overpriced, sometimes for less and are a bargain, the true value of a horse to me would be what someone would pay in cold blood, not an auction.

if a horse of 15 is over the hill, i`m a monkeys uncle, at this age a horse should, if trained correctly still be capable of improvement and should be highly valued not necessarily in monetary terms but for what he has achieved and for the what the best bits of his work could offer in training students.

if dressage is truly training the horse, then they should get better not deteriorate, throughout their working life, until old age takes hold. however we are talking here about competition dressage, and i have only seen this horse once, but in the world of comp dressage he is a high achiever and brings with him the actual experience of performing at that level.


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## marotelle (28 May 2016)

popsdosh said:



			Would you care to elaborate!
		
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You obviously have an axe to grind with C Hester,this is not my concern, I simply feel sorry for
this horse who is caught up in this sorry business.He has been beautifully  produced and kept
and been ridden in a superb style;should the remurs of his sale to the Shockenmohle set up be true, the poor fellow will be in for a shock.
The Shockenmohle breeding program is a business,individual horses are simply a number,the
mares at least get turned out in the summer but the stallions are there to breed and Nothing else,perhaps I was unlucky ;when I saw them they were kept in filthy conditions.
Obviously on open and show days ,they are washed and the stables are cleaned,I still would not like to venture into the sheds where they keep the mares and yougsters during the winter...But then this was a few years ago, perhaps now things have changed and who knows
stallions might be kept Under another 'régime'.


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## ester (28 May 2016)

I think it depends if you have been healthy and sound for those 15 years. or whether it has been a struggle to keep you performing at that level.


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## ester (28 May 2016)

I am a bit surprised even on here why there is so much sentiment/feeling sorry for the horse in all this. Wherever he ends up he is at least going to get his basic needs met, especially if you just paid 165k for him?


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## elliefiz (28 May 2016)

I wish people would take the time to spell someone's name correctly before they decide to disparage them on the Internet. It is Schockemohle. A quick Google will show that. And Heather Moffat has posted an apology on Facebook for starting the rumour because there is no truth in it and as of yet she, along with all of us, has zero idea who bought the horse. It may indeed be Carl. No statement has been made.


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## WandaMare (28 May 2016)

ester said:



			I am a bit surprised even on here why there is so much sentiment/feeling sorry for the horse in all this. Wherever he ends up he is at least going to get his basic needs met, especially if you just paid 165k for him?
		
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I think some of us would hope that he has more in life to look forward to than having his basic needs met.


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## MurphysMinder (28 May 2016)

elliefiz said:



			I wish people would take the time to spell someone's name correctly before they decide to disparage them on the Internet. It is Schockemohle. A quick Google will show that. And Heather Moffat has posted an apology on Facebook for starting the rumour because there is no truth in it and as of yet she, along with all of us, has zero idea who bought the horse. It may indeed be Carl. No statement has been made.
		
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Psst , it's MoffEtt


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## ester (28 May 2016)

WandaMare said:



			I think some of us would hope that he has more in life to look forward to than having his basic needs met.
		
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Well I suspect he has too, essentially wherever he ends up he is going to do better than many other equines, including those who have been equally successful for their previous owners (racing for example).


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## Kylara (28 May 2016)

elliefiz said:



			And Heather Moffat has posted an apology on Facebook for starting the rumour because there is no truth in it and as of yet she, along with all of us, has zero idea who bought the horse.
		
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I'm following that thread on the BD FB page with popcorn. Poor Heather and her apologies...that makes a few already this year  The problem being that she's denying saying Schockemohle, and people are showing her screenshots of her own posts saying otherwise, and is now saying she didn't mean it when she said she had goos authority saying Carl hasn't got him. So all in all, pure speculation on her part, and her claims of being good mates with Carl have bumped up her speculations to the top of everyone's lists!

I'm sure whoever has him will take good care of him. And auctions for high value items can take a while to process, and especially an auction filled with so many high price items - takes everyone a bit of time to ensure transfers are made, paperwork filled out etc etc. So likely to have a press release at some point, unless they wish to remain anonymous, and in that case someone will probably track them down anyway.


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## MyBoyChe (28 May 2016)

I think its unlikely that the new owner will want to remain anonymous!  If it is Carl, Im sure he will want to let everyone know asap, if it is someone else they are likely to have bought the horse for commercial reasons, either competing or breeding, so keeping their identity secret wont really help, will it?  I do hope that wherever he is he continues to enjoy life though, in whatever direction it takes.


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## MotherOfChickens (28 May 2016)

Kylara said:



			I'm following that thread on the BD FB page with popcorn. Poor Heather and her apologies...that makes a few already this year  The problem being that she's denying saying Schockemohle, and people are showing her screenshots of her own posts saying otherwise, and is now saying she didn't mean it when she said she had goos authority saying Carl hasn't got him. So all in all, pure speculation on her part, and her claims of being good mates with Carl have bumped up her speculations to the top of everyone's lists!
.
		
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that is quite a funny thread..


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## ester (28 May 2016)

If you're going to use facebook as a promotional tool, best to know how things work  I don't think you can blame people for invading your privacy when your whole page is set to public


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## Peggs (28 May 2016)

I think whenever posting on Facebook or any social media you must sit back and think that anything you have posted; opinions, photos or otherwise are at risk of being taken out of context, stolen etc... The whole thing seems like tit-for-tat and a load of school girl gossip. It'll be nice when an official statement comes out and all the speculation and rumours cease.


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## HashRouge (28 May 2016)

ester said:



			If you're going to use facebook as a promotional tool, best to know how things work  I don't think you can blame people for invading your privacy when your whole page is set to public 

Click to expand...

Well she does have a track history of not presenting herself in the best light online!


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## elliefiz (28 May 2016)

MurphysMinder said:



			Psst , it's MoffEtt  

Click to expand...

Haha now how silly do I feel?!!


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## elliefiz (28 May 2016)

Kylara said:



			I'm following that thread on the BD FB page with popcorn. Poor Heather and her apologies...that makes a few already this year  The problem being that she's denying saying Schockemohle, and people are showing her screenshots of her own posts saying otherwise, and is now saying she didn't mean it when she said she had goos authority saying Carl hasn't got him. So all in all, pure speculation on her part, and her claims of being good mates with Carl have bumped up her speculations to the top of everyone's lists!

I'm sure whoever has him will take good care of him. And auctions for high value items can take a while to process, and especially an auction filled with so many high price items - takes everyone a bit of time to ensure transfers are made, paperwork filled out etc etc. So likely to have a press release at some point, unless they wish to remain anonymous, and in that case someone will probably track them down anyway.
		
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There is nothing more distasteful than someone pretending to know people and information they have no knowledge of in reality. Happens a lot in the horse world (and I'm sure in all walks of life) but various posts on here and on Facebook from people acting like they are in the confidence of the high and mighty of the horse world always comes off rather try hard and pathetic. I imagine Carl Hester will be crossing Heather off his Christmas card list if she was on it in the first place!! Using his name to further her own agenda wouldn't go down too well I'm sure.


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## DragonSlayer (28 May 2016)

HashRouge said:



			Well she does have a track history of not presenting herself in the best light online!
		
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Yes, I do recall the debacle on here, not what I would expect from a 'professional'...at all!


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## ester (28 May 2016)

All our fault obv


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## DragonSlayer (28 May 2016)

That it was...and OMG! I'm about to hit 6,666 posts! 

~Makes spooky music noises~


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## HashRouge (28 May 2016)

DragonSlayer said:



			That it was...and OMG! I'm about to hit 6,666 posts! 

~Makes spooky music noises~
		
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Well come on, what are you waiting for, embrace the dark side


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## Adopter (28 May 2016)

DragonSlayer said:



			That it was...and OMG! I'm about to hit 6,666 posts! 

~Makes spooky music noises~
		
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That's not loud enough I can not hear you.


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## DragonSlayer (28 May 2016)

6,666 posts!

All shall bow down to me and embrace The Dark Side!

....on a lighter note, I'm watching Gone with the wind.


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## Bryndu (28 May 2016)

Whilst I am as curious as most to find out if Mr Hester has indeed been able to keep Uti... just because the auction house does not 'know' the buyer....we do not know what arrangements were made after Mr Hester's statement saying that he felt sure he had funds available ...or with whom.

As for Heather Moffet.....even if she did 'have it on good authority' ...it was not her news to tell.....badly done Ms Moffet.....badly done 

Bryndu


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## hairycob (28 May 2016)

Brandi - are you an Archers fan by any chance?


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## Adopter (28 May 2016)

DragonSlayer said:



			6,666 posts!

All shall bow down to me and embrace The Dark Side!

....on a lighter note, I'm watching Gone with the wind. 

Click to expand...

 Congratulations! !!!!  There must be some connection a dragonslayer and Gone with the Wind.


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## PolarSkye (28 May 2016)

ester said:



			If you're going to use facebook as a promotional tool, best to know how things work  I don't think you can blame people for invading your privacy when your whole page is set to public [/]

Quite.  She shot her mouth off and then backpedalled furiously . . . poor judgement IMO.

P
		
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## PolarSkye (28 May 2016)

elliefiz said:



			There is nothing more distasteful than someone pretending to know people and information they have no knowledge of in reality. Happens a lot in the horse world (and I'm sure in all walks of life) but various posts on here and on Facebook from people acting like they are in the confidence of the high and mighty of the horse world always comes off rather try hard and pathetic. I imagine Carl Hester will be crossing Heather off his Christmas card list if she was on it in the first place!! Using his name to further her own agenda wouldn't go down too well I'm sure.
		
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Where's that Like button?

P


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## Bryndu (28 May 2016)

hairycob said:



			Brandi - are you an Archers fan by any chance?
		
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No ..lol 

Bryndu


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## Honey08 (28 May 2016)

elliefiz said:



			Haha now how silly do I feel?!!
		
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Don't worry.  Most of us understand that people make spelling mistakes sometimes and not everyone googles to spell check...


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## oldie48 (28 May 2016)

I googled it and its spelled "muppet"



Honey08 said:



			Don't worry.  Most of us understand that people make spelling mistakes sometimes and not everyone googles to spell check...
		
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## elliefiz (28 May 2016)

Honey08 said:



			Don't worry.  Most of us understand that people make spelling mistakes sometimes and not everyone googles to spell check...
		
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If I was composing a post making pretty big accusations about someone, and claiming I had personal experience of it, I would probably ensure I had the name correct. It certainly doesn't add credibility to someone's story but then that's just my opinion.


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## Honey08 (28 May 2016)

I spelt his name wrong on my post too.  I didn't google...  Me bad!

Anyway, I think most people are just dying to find out where he's going and hoping he will be ok.  It's all very secretive.


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## HBB (28 May 2016)

Honey08 said:



			It's all very secretive.
		
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I know, you'd think there would have been a statement released by now?


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## {97702} (28 May 2016)

Can someone post a link to the FB thread please?   I had a look but can't find it?


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## HBB (28 May 2016)

The Heather Moffett FB thread?

https://www.facebook.com/groups/233...al_surface=direct_link&availability=available


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## {97702} (28 May 2016)

HBB said:



			The Heather Moffett FB thread?

https://www.facebook.com/groups/233...al_surface=direct_link&availability=available

Click to expand...

Thanks but it appears to have been deleted - every other thread HM has posted on appears but apparently not that one!  Thanks anyway


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## Kylara (28 May 2016)

The thing with auctions is people often have a couple of days to pay up, and people often use agents instead of bidding themselves so even if you find out who bid, it may not be the actual buyer!


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## Leo Walker (28 May 2016)

Lévrier;13273517 said:
			
		


			Thanks but it appears to have been deleted - every other thread HM has posted on appears but apparently not that one!  Thanks anyway 

Click to expand...

I can still see it. It might be because your not a member of that group. Its on this group:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/2335048437/


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## HBB (28 May 2016)

Lévrier;13273517 said:
			
		


			Thanks but it appears to have been deleted - every other thread HM has posted on appears but apparently not that one!  Thanks anyway 

Click to expand...

Are you sure? I can still read it all. Try this link and see if this one works...

https://www.facebook.com/groups/2335048437/permalink/10155063440703438/


It starts, as quoted by Heather Moffett.... and she continues to argue black is white throughout her thread :biggrin3:




			Heather Moffett
10 hrs
I would categorically wish to state that I do not know who has bought Uthopia. I would also like to state that I did not say that Paul Schockemohle has purchased him. I said that I hoped this wasn't the case as it was being rumoured, meaning it would be sad that Uthopia would be leaving Carl and GB. It seems that screen shots were taken and circulated of my post to this effect, over which I had no control. I so wish that people would respect that although public this is my own private page, and screenshots without permission are an invasion of my own privacy.
It appears to have been shared over FB that I had knowledge of this. This was not and never was the case. We were all emotional last night and undoubtedly the rumours spread like wildfire with high feelings running.
These rumours were on many pages other than mine, but I would like to apologise unreservedly to Carl and those involved, if the comments on my page have caused any confusion. That was certainly never the intention. I hope that Uti has at least been bought by a sympathetic owner. Now we must await an official statement.
PS my page no longer public. Friends only. You live and learn :'(.
		
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## {97702} (28 May 2016)

FrankieCob said:



			I can still see it. It might be because your not a member of that group. Its on this group:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/2335048437/

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Ah found it thanks FrankieCob - I was already a member of that group, that was what confused me


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## {97702} (28 May 2016)

HBB said:



			Are you sure? I can still read it all. Try this link and see if this one works...

https://www.facebook.com/groups/2335048437/permalink/10155063440703438/


It starts, as quoted by Heather Moffett.... and she continues to argue black is white throughout her thread :biggrin3:
		
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Actually no I spoke too soon - when I click on THIS link it says 'this post has been deleted'


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## {97702} (28 May 2016)

HBB said:



			Are you sure? I can still read it all. Try this link and see if this one works...

https://www.facebook.com/groups/2335048437/permalink/10155063440703438/


It starts, as quoted by Heather Moffett.... and she continues to argue black is white throughout her thread :biggrin3:
		
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What a complete muppet......HM not you of course HBB


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## {97702} (28 May 2016)

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/schockemohle-uthopia-owner-rumours-541891

That's good news - I dunno, I've known quite a lot of Carl's horses that either he keeps or his owners keep locally, I am not sure he would allow Uti to go elsewhere?  Sure it is all about money but personally I like to think Carl has a heart too    (yep I went for a job interview at his yard and couldn't remember who Lenny was....!!!  Still got invited back for a second interview mind you  )


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## SO1 (28 May 2016)

I am wondering if he has been bought by a syndicate as previously CH seemed to state when he asked people not to donate to the crowd funding, that his owners had managed to raise enough funds to purchase Utopia.

CH may well be fond of the horse and concerned about his future but I don't get the impression he is mega rich and has huge sums of money to buy expensive horses, I think most of his success has come from horses owned by others. 

Interesting just looked at CH website and Utopia is on it - owner is stated as Carl Hester, my understanding is the CH has never been the sole owner of Utopia, is his website very out of date, or was his name just put as the owner whilst the dispute was about ownership was going on? 

http://www.carlhester.co.uk/horses/[/url]


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## sasquatch (28 May 2016)

I think it is wrong to speculate as to who has or doesn't have the horse at this point in time. Yes we all want to know who, but it will all be released at some point soon.

Carl Hester has not yet posted anything regarding Uthopia, and I can imagine the auction house will not release any details until the bidder has paid in full, or the sale has fallen through.

The auctioneer has said they don't recognise the buyers name, but that doesn't mean anything. It may not be Carl who has bought him, but a financial backer or syndicate or something similar. Carl also may not have been able to buy him, but instead someone may have bought him who wants him to live with Carl or retire him elsewhere, we don't know as of yet.


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## JFTDWS (28 May 2016)

And now HM is threatening legal action against H&H on that facebook thread.  Apparently she's "shocked and appalled" by the "personal attack" in this article: http://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http:...ohle-uthopia-owner-rumours-541891&h=-AQGoa4Oe.  

Beautiful...  You couldn't make it up.


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## DragonSlayer (28 May 2016)

The thing is, it wasn't her news to give anyway. It's Carl's news. Whatever she's heard, if she's a friend, she shouldn't be sharing it with anyone.


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## JFTDWS (28 May 2016)

DragonSlayer said:



			The thing is, it wasn't her news to give anyway. It's Carl's news. Whatever she's heard, if she's a friend, she shouldn't be sharing it with anyone.
		
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Any opportunity to jump on a bandwagon and capitalise on some publicity, eh?!


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## DragonSlayer (28 May 2016)

JFTD said:



			Any opportunity to jump on a bandwagon and capitalise on some publicity, eh?!
		
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Looks that way!


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## Sleighfarer (29 May 2016)

Carl has now confirmed in a tweet that he was unable to secure Uthopia, but is still hoping for a positive outcome. I presume this means for the horse to stay at his yard.


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## elliefiz (29 May 2016)

JFTD said:



			And now HM is threatening legal action against H&H on that facebook thread.  Apparently she's "shocked and appalled" by the "personal attack" in this article: http://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http:...ohle-uthopia-owner-rumours-541891&h=-AQGoa4Oe.  

Beautiful...  You couldn't make it up.
		
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I would be very surprised if HM didn't hear from Schockemöhle's legal representatives given she started the rumour about him buying the horse alongside some nasty comments about him being unethical, mistreating horses, etc. I was the only person on her long, hysterical post who said that what was being posted was seriously disrespectful to all involved. The thing is, there is no point pretending she thought anything was private, given that in the past she has actively encouraged people to share her posts on their own pages. It's hilarious really that H&H have stuck the knife in given all her posts about the magazine, I think they get a letter from her weekly complaining about something they have published (albeit at times I do agree with the point she is making). One could almost think it was some kind of payback.


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## ester (29 May 2016)

Oh well that is a morning chuckle.


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## Goldenstar (29 May 2016)

JFTD said:



			And now HM is threatening legal action against H&H on that facebook thread.  Apparently she's "shocked and appalled" by the "personal attack" in this article: http://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http:...ohle-uthopia-owner-rumours-541891&h=-AQGoa4Oe.  

Beautiful...  You couldn't make it up.
		
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Snorts coffee.


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## popsdosh (29 May 2016)

At least we all know now that CH is sensible enough not to waste that sort of money. Also that PS did not see him as much of a breeding investment !! I never doubted either scenario and my faith in the competition world has been restored.  Money to either of those buyers would not have been the issue but whether they saw a return on it.


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## popsdosh (29 May 2016)

marotelle said:



			You obviously have an axe to grind with C Hester,this is not my concern, I simply feel sorry for
this horse who is caught up in this sorry business.He has been beautifully  produced and kept
and been ridden in a superb style;should the remurs of his sale to the Shockenmohle set up be true, the poor fellow will be in for a shock.
The Shockenmohle breeding program is a business,individual horses are simply a number,the
mares at least get turned out in the summer but the stallions are there to breed and Nothing else,perhaps I was unlucky ;when I saw them they were kept in filthy conditions.
Obviously on open and show days ,they are washed and the stables are cleaned,I still would not like to venture into the sheds where they keep the mares and yougsters during the winter...But then this was a few years ago, perhaps now things have changed and who knows
stallions might be kept Under another 'régime'.
		
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LOL OMG I have no axe to grind with CH he has been more involved with the delay in bringing this to a head that is whats forgotten. That was not based on sentiment for the horse.

However you obviously have huge issue with PS and how he keeps his horses in your view. You forget one big fact PS has got himself to where he is by producing horses if you mistreat them you wont see the returns.  From an equine business sense many could do to follow his lead.


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## Alec Swan (29 May 2016)

popsdosh said:



			At least we all know now that CH is sensible enough not to waste that sort of money. Also that PS did not see him as much of a breeding investment !! I never doubted either scenario and my faith in the competition world has been restored.  Money to either of those buyers would not have been the issue but whether they saw a return on it.
		
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The view of many,  I feel sure.

The thoughts of Ms Moffett however,  are bizarre and as another has pointed out,  she may not have done herself any favours!  Silly woman.

Alec.


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## marotelle (29 May 2016)

I think you have misread me;I have no issues against P S, he is a very astute business man,
he was an excellent rider and runs a very successful and tight breeding operation,as I stated
in my reply when you asked me to carify my first statement.
Nonetheless, Utopia has been used to a very high standard of care, I don't personally know the horse, but he does not look that straight forward to keep  happy,daily turnout seems to ba priority in the CH yard, its a good thing if the horse accepts it.I cannot imagine that he would be injoying the same treatment in PS outfit.NOT BECAUSE THEY ARE BADDLY TREATED
but simply because it is a business investement and the stallions are too numerous to permit
this sort of upkeep; of course their basic needs are met and the youngsters are well presented,there would no sense in mistreating them or they would not sell!
I hope Uti finds a good home thats all.


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## Sandstone1 (29 May 2016)

I'm a bit confused! Do we know who has bought the horse or not?
Is it Carl Hester or someone else?


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## HashRouge (29 May 2016)

selinas spirit said:



			I'm a bit confused! Do we know who has bought the horse or not?
Is it Carl Hester or someone else?
		
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We don't know yet. Carl has tweeted that he hasn't secured Uthopia but is working "on a positive outcome". So presumably there is still a chance he will stay with Carl.


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## Sandstone1 (29 May 2016)

HashRouge said:



			We don't know yet. Carl has tweeted that he hasn't secured Uthopia but is working "on a positive outcome". So presumably there is still a chance he will stay with Carl.
		
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Thanks, just got a bit lost with this thread. Hope it works out ok for the horse. That's the main thing.


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## WelshD (29 May 2016)

Maybe I'm being unnecessarily harsh but there has been much talk of securing the horse's future etc but the person with the most incentive to do that seems to have not done so 

I'm not sure if Carl didn't intend to buy (business mind over sentimentality - nothing wrong with that) or just went in with the loose change from behind the sofa

I find it astonishing at the calls on Facebook that hope the horse can stay with Carl. If he didn't buy the horse direct then people can't whinge on that the horse may end up elsewhere. I can't believe people are up in arms about the situation!


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## Goldenstar (29 May 2016)

I think up in arms overstates it a little but it's certainly very sad when an older horse who has given a lot changes homes particularly when his life has included turnout and hacking and there's no guarantee as a dressage stallion he will have this in the future .
However he may go off to a lovely stud with paddocks and lots of nice mares let's hope so .


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## Alec Swan (29 May 2016)

WelshD said:



			&#8230;&#8230;..

I find it astonishing at the calls on Facebook that hope the horse can stay with Carl. If he didn't buy the horse direct then people can't whinge on that the horse may end up elsewhere. I can't believe people are up in arms about the situation!
		
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Considering that Hester isn't some kid from down the road who mucks out at weekends in return for a free ride and that he's running a highly successful business and throughout the horse's career,  his been very well paid,  to suggest that he was unable to raise the needed bid to top £165k,  would raise an eyebrow.

Perhaps he was hoping that the horse would be bought and gifted to him.  That would have been nice,  I agree,  but hardly at the forefront of everyone's mind!

Alec.


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## millikins (29 May 2016)

Well I hope Alec's OH is right and KP has bought him. She has enough dosh to be sentimental, is a decent rider who seems keen to learn, keeps her other animals well and is too busy to over compete him. sadly I think it's unlikely because she does love a headline and I think we'd know by now.


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## sasquatch (29 May 2016)

millikins said:



			Well I hope Alec's OH is right and KP has bought him. She has enough dosh to be sentimental, is a decent rider who seems keen to learn, keeps her other animals well and is too busy to over compete him. sadly I think it's unlikely because she does love a headline and I think we'd know by now.
		
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I did have the same thought that maybe KP had bought him, lol
We know she does like her dressage, has the money and seems to have a love of horses and does the best by them, but I highly doubt she has bought him.

The lack of headline could be due to the horse not yet being paid for, I'm not sure how it works but the auction house can't release details until he is paid for (I think?!) so maybe it is the same for the owner, they can't claim he is theirs until he has been paid for. I may be looking into things too much, but the fact that they are bringing up that he must be paid for in full within a certain time period sounds like he hasn't yet been paid for.


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## stormox (29 May 2016)

sasquatch said:



			I dont think auction houses are allowed to disclose buyers at all- client confidentiality. Iknow Goresbridge, Cavan etc are publicised in the 'Irish Field' but if people dont want to be named it just says cash.....
		
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## popsdosh (29 May 2016)

stormox said:



			I dont think auction houses are allowed to disclose buyers at all- client confidentiality. Iknow Goresbridge, Cavan etc are publicised in the 'Irish Field' but if people dont want to be named it just says cash.....
		
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Exactly the auction house is not at liberty to disclose who has bought him(it wont be because they havent paid as the funds had to be available before they would let you bid) and I am sure there are also very good reasons why we dont yet know whats the point in speculating as in KP for example.


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## conniegirl (29 May 2016)

popsdosh said:



			Exactly the auction house is not at liberty to disclose who has bought him(it wont be because they havent paid as the funds had to be available before they would let you bid) and I am sure there are also very good reasons why we dont yet know whats the point in speculating as in KP for example.
		
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Whilst funds would need to be available, it is highly unlikely to be available in cash or debit card! it will most likely be conducted via bank transfer for a sum of that size and as most banks don't opperate on a Saturday, Sunday or bank holiday Monday then funds won't clear until Tuesday earliest.


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## WelshD (29 May 2016)

conniegirl said:



			Whilst funds would need to be available, it is highly unlikely to be available in cash or debit card! it will most likely be conducted via bank transfer for a sum of that size and as most banks don't opperate on a Saturday, Sunday or bank holiday Monday then funds won't clear until Tuesday earliest.
		
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Yes I think the purchaser has two 'business days' to pay so this would make sense absolutely


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## popsdosh (29 May 2016)

The reason you don't know is because the buyer doesn't want it to be known yet ,it really is that simple.
I can actually transfer money at any time for any amount and it shows in the account within minutes does not matter whether banks are open or not . Full payment is due on the fall of the hammer you don't get a payment plan. That is why they don't accept bids from people who do not show cleared funds to cover what they are bidding to.


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## Alec Swan (29 May 2016)

Bidding at high end auctions has the auction house either issue a 'paddle' should the bidder be in the room,  or if the bid is over the 'phone or on-line,  then the bidder has to establish their credit worthiness with the auction house,  and some time before the start of the auction itself.  Joe Bloggs simply 'phoning on the day of the auction isn't how it works,  the result would be chaos!

I buy and sell too at auction,  and those who run the businesses have to be convinced of the bidder's ability to pay.  The successful bidder in this case,  would have been very well known for the bid to have been offered and accepted.

Ets,  and as popsdosh says,  funds can be transferred within minutes on such occasions,  regardless of the day of the week or the time of the day.

Alec.


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## stormox (29 May 2016)

Exactly, Popsdosh.  As with any auction, the buyer has to assume responsibility for the horse and transfer funds very soon after fall of hammer, they certainly wouldnt wait until banks opened in 3 days time!! After all, who would be responsible for the horse meanwhile?  
If the buyer doesn't want to be known yet, its his/her business. The auction house certainly wont be the ones to disclose who it is.
Good luck to them and whatever Uthopia's future now holds.


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## Polos Mum (29 May 2016)

Interesting that someone decided to pay more for him than, the person who probably knows him best, thought he was worth - slightly brave decision as I guess that sort of auction = no vet history?


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## HashRouge (29 May 2016)

Polos Mum said:



			Interesting that someone decided to pay more for him than, the person who probably knows him best, thought he was worth - slightly brave decision as I guess that sort of auction = no vet history?
		
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But I imagine some people are so rich that £165,000 is really just pennies - if I had that sort of money I'd probably have bought him myself 
Whereas I suppose Carl still has to look at things from a business point of view.


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## ester (29 May 2016)

I think his vet history is pretty well known, it's not great


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## WelshD (29 May 2016)

True you have to prove you have the funds to pay before your ability to bid has been cleared however the owner of the auction house has been quoted in saying that the buyer has two working after the auction days to pay which made it sound that payment wasn't necessarily made on the night 

I've bid (on behalf of an employer) at similar auctions in the past using a few different auction houses (though admittedly not this one) but always when we've won  a lot we then have a nail biting wait for confirmation that our bid is the valid final one as giving us instructions to pay then after payment we have had a wait again for another communication confirming everything and authorising us to arrange to collect our goods, this hasn't always happened straight away

Until we have the receipt nothing is guaranteed

I'm not sure how this auction house works but it's now the weekend so it may be safe to say the administration may now wait until someone is back in the office so regardless of when that button is pressed for the money transfer you will almost certainly need to have a human at the other end to confirm receipt and issue a confirmation before you can start celebrating 

Of course the buyer may choose to say something at any point but if it were me is want to be clutching my receipt in my grubby hands before I tempt fate!


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## SO1 (29 May 2016)

High net worth individuals or big business can operate a different banking system to others. The banks will offer them a 24/7 service and they probably have personal bankers who can move money for them very quickly if they want to.

CH has been a bit of a pioneer in how he has managed his dressage horses. However there seems to be more scientific evidence now that regular turnout and cross training can help keep the horses sounder than being stabled 24/7 and working on a surface all the time. It may take a while for others to catch up but if CH methods continue to work and produce successful sound dressage horse then others will hopefully follow his methods.  Hopefully whoever has bought Utopia if they have bought him to ride and complete will be sensible enough to follow the same routine and training methods that CH has used in order to get the best out of the horse.

The amount CH was willing to pay to secure Utopia would only be based on what he would have been worth to him and the amount of money he was willing to risk. It is hard to make money from horses if you are very sentimental.  What he might be worth to someone else as a schoolmaster or status symbol or for a breeding program may be different based on how much money they have and what levels of risk they are willing to take. When Chinese tycoons are spending 69 million dollars on a diamond for their daughter, a couple of hundred thousand pounds for horse probably seems like nothing to someone like that.


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## lannerch (29 May 2016)

I struggle to see how Carl if really serious could not have secured him at £165k , the price he sold for was not dear. Considering his breeding potential even if lame he's not a wild investment and as long as fertile which has been proved a sound investment at that price.


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## popsdosh (29 May 2016)

lannerch said:



			I struggle to see how Carl if really serious could not have secured him at £165k , the price he sold for was not dear. Considering his breeding potential even if lame he's not a wild investment and as long as fertile which has been proved a sound investment at that price.
		
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Really its all speculation he obviously was not seen to be a sound investment for breeding from some very astute business people. Of course Carl could have secured him at any price if he wanted too. However after all the furore about all the crowd funding etc the truth is now out CH was not prepared to pay the price  however he had done the honourable thing and stopped all the way out suggestions to raise money early on. Theire you were all thinking the only thing stopping CH buying him was the money. LOL


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## eahotson (30 May 2016)

WelshD said:



			Maybe I'm being unnecessarily harsh but there has been much talk of securing the horse's future etc but the person with the most incentive to do that seems to have not done so 

I'm not sure if Carl didn't intend to buy (business mind over sentimentality - nothing wrong with that) or just went in with the loose change from behind the sofa

I find it astonishing at the calls on Facebook that hope the horse can stay with Carl. If he didn't buy the horse direct then people can't whinge on that the horse may end up elsewhere. I can't believe people are up in arms about the situation!
		
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 Where is the like button?


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## Sandstone1 (30 May 2016)

Is there not a chance that whoever has bought him, might leave him with Carl Hester?
Could he still be used at stud using Ai?
Don't know much about these things so maybe it's not possible.


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## ycbm (30 May 2016)

It may take a while for others to catch up but if CH methods continue to work and produce successful sound dressage horse then others will hopefully follow his methods.
		
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Do they though?  Carl's horses don't seem to last any longer than other people's. Neither Valegro (last time I saw him struggling with his changes for some reason) nor Uthopia look as if they are going to last as long as Parzival, whose training has been severely criticised.

Top level dressage is desperately hard on horses. 

I feel echoes of Kauto Star in this story, a horse who deserved more after hard service. I hope I'm wrong in that and he ends up somewhere fabulous.


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## lula (30 May 2016)

ycbm said:



			Do they though?  Carl's horses don't seem to last any longer than other people's. Neither Valegro (last time I saw him struggling with his changes for some reason) nor Uthopia look as if they are going to last as long as Parzival, whose training has been severely criticised.

Top level dressage is desperately hard on horses. 

I feel echoes of Kauto Star I this story, a horse who deserved more after hard service. I hope I'm wrong in that and he end up somewhere fabulous.
		
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^^^^ Good post.


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## lula (30 May 2016)

DragonSlayer said:



			The thing is, it wasn't her news to give anyway. It's Carl's news. Whatever she's heard, if she's a friend, she shouldn't be sharing it with anyone.
		
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Ah yes, but its nice to say things like 'i have it on good authority' when you know Carl. Makes you sound all important and stuff and people start listening to you. Then when you speculate someone has bought the horse with some conviction and then you wonder why people take you at your word, HM?

 Just own it. yes you did say it.


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## ester (30 May 2016)

Salinero was competing at 18 odd too?

I too think Carl made the statement to stop the gofundme nonsense of people giving money to randomers and even then people said what if he doesn't actually want the horse for keeps anyway.


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## MotherOfChickens (30 May 2016)

I think the whole fuss about it is quite bizarre-I do not understand why people would want to help someone like CH buy a horse, he can buy his own horse if he wants one! Besides, owning his own horses means less room on his yard for paying owners. 

CH is not the only person that can look after a horse well-even a special needs one and some of the FB comments are just  People are so annoyed that he didnt take them up on their offer of fundraising-if I were him I'd not want the hassle of all those people feeling more entitled to the horse/him than they seemingly do now.


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## eahotson (30 May 2016)

MotherOfChickens said:



			I think the whole fuss about it is quite bizarre-I do not understand why people would want to help someone like CH buy a horse, he can buy his own horse if he wants one! Besides, owning his own horses means less room on his yard for paying owners. 

CH is not the only person that can look after a horse well-even a special needs one and some of the FB comments are just  People are so annoyed that he didnt take them up on their offer of fundraising-if I were him I'd not want the hassle of all those people feeling more entitled to the horse/him than they seemingly do now.
		
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Ah but he never said he was going to buy him personally.He was looking for owners/backers I think.


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## tristar (30 May 2016)

well said ycbm, hard on horses, when in fact true dressage makes the horse last longer and is the whole point of dressage to mobilise the horse enabling him to move in such a way that he does`nt wear out through his work!


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## popsdosh (30 May 2016)

eahotson said:



			Ah but he never said he was going to buy him personally.He was looking for owners/backers I think.
		
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Yeh and whats the point in that!


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## Goldenstar (30 May 2016)

Grand Prix dressage horses are like gymnasts and human gymnasts are often lame very young .
I don't have an I depth knowledge on this but I see no evidence that CH trained horses last longer than other peoples .


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## eahotson (30 May 2016)

popsdosh said:



			Yeh and whats the point in that!
		
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Well if I could afford it I wouldn't mind owning Uthopia.Also minor considerations like loyalty for instance?He gave Carl his very first Olympic gold medal.Just after the Olympics his stud fee was a lot higher than £1500 and its not his fault he has barely competed since.In fact I THINK although I don't know that he was being lined up as a second to Valegro for Charlotte at Rio. Even very hard headed successful business people don't base all their decisions purely on financial profit.


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## MotherOfChickens (30 May 2016)

eahotson said:



			.He was looking for owners/backers I think.
		
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well of course he was?! my point is, that he's quite capable of sorting it out himself and getting someone else to pay livery rather than some random internet people living in cloud cuckoo land.


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## eahotson (30 May 2016)

MotherOfChickens said:



			well of course he was?! my point is, that he's quite capable of sorting it out himself and getting someone else to pay livery rather than some random internet people living in cloud cuckoo land.
		
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I take your point.Carl is a big boy and he can look after himself but the gofundme crowd.Some of them will just have cared and been desperate to do something.Unwise perhaps but not bad.


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## MotherOfChickens (30 May 2016)

eahotson said:



			I take your point.Carl is a big boy and he can look after himself but the gofundme crowd.Some of them will just have cared and been desperate to do something.Unwise perhaps but not bad.
		
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I guess I just don't understand the (emotional) investment in a horse that a)they have never met or maybe met in passing b) a horse that will almost certainly be looked after professionally. Or maybe they all just have more money than I do lol. My money goes on my horses and after them, it goes on charities for horses less well off. Had the crowdfunding people considered how to keep the horse rather than just purchasing him?Isnt that the first rule of owning a horse


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## popsdosh (30 May 2016)

eahotson said:



			Well if I could afford it I wouldn't mind owning Uthopia.Also minor considerations like loyalty for instance?He gave Carl his very first Olympic gold medal.Just after the Olympics his stud fee was a lot higher than £1500 and its not his fault he has barely competed since.In fact I THINK although I don't know that he was being lined up as a second to Valegro for Charlotte at Rio. Even very hard headed successful business people don't base all their decisions purely on financial profit.
		
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I could point a few things out to you that counter your claims . The horse could easily have competed more but for CHs legal challenge to him being sold by the creditors and quite rightly they would not let the horse compete abroad. CH only dropped this challenge after it became obvious he would not be selected for RIO which realistically was his last chance at a major championship the horses value in this time has dropped to less than 10% of what it was at London how do you think the creditors feel? This whole thing has gone on for 6yrs!!!! All that time the creditors will have been picking up the bills.!. Indeed his stud fee may have been in excess of 1500 but how many mares took up that option?? 1500x0 is still zero I am afraid the only way you stay afloat with horses at any level is being hard headed im afraid.
I suspect that CH is indeed negotiating with the buyer to have the horse stay with him but I am sure that will be on a paying basis.


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## popsdosh (30 May 2016)

As an afterthought it is actually possible that CH may actually receive a % tage of the proceeds as I am sure he was actually listed as a creditors when it started all that time back.


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## tristar (30 May 2016)

but young horses should be like young gymnasts, they should not be working hard they should be nursed along, at one time 11years was considered a youngster in dressage terms


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## eahotson (30 May 2016)

popsdosh said:



			I could point a few things out to you that counter your claims . The horse could easily have competed more but for CHs legal challenge to him being sold by the creditors and quite rightly they would not let the horse compete abroad. CH only dropped this challenge after it became obvious he would not be selected for RIO which realistically was his last chance at a major championship the horses value in this time has dropped to less than 10% of what it was at London how do you think the creditors feel? This whole thing has gone on for 6yrs!!!! All that time the creditors will have been picking up the bills.!. Indeed his stud fee may have been in excess of 1500 but how many mares took up that option?? 1500x0 is still zero I am afraid the only way you stay afloat with horses at any level is being hard headed im afraid.
I suspect that CH is indeed negotiating with the buyer to have the horse stay with him but I am sure that will be on a paying basis.
		
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I have every sympathy with the creditors,some of whom may well have gone bankrupt themselves because of money owed to them by Sasha Stewart and her father and yes Carl is probably also a creditor.Apart from Carl none of the other creditors owe Uthopia a thing.Utopia was popular as a stud just after the Olympics and if he had carried on competing would still be popular I expect.If he had gone to Rio and been successful? Utopia wasn't the only thing they tried to hide by the look of it.It's regrettable but human nature to try to hang on to what you have got.Of course you have to be hard headed in any business to succeed but money can't be the sole arbiter or it all becomes very joyless. Out of curiosity how can creditors who have had no contact with Uthopia personally or financially be asked to contribute towards his keep.


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## eahotson (30 May 2016)

Also they didn't actually market him aggressively as a stud did they?No doubt for good financial (to them at least) reasons but he kind of dropped from public attention.Charlotte rode him for a short while after the Olympics from memory and I always thought that was to show that he could be ridden by someone else so he would be more saleable after the Totilas debacle.


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## eahotson (30 May 2016)

MotherOfChickens said:



			I guess I just don't understand the (emotional) investment in a horse that a)they have never met or maybe met in passing b) a horse that will almost certainly be looked after professionally. Or maybe they all just have more money than I do lol. My money goes on my horses and after them, it goes on charities for horses less well off. Had the crowdfunding people considered how to keep the horse rather than just purchasing him?Isnt that the first rule of owning a horse 

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I don't think they would have owned him would they?Like you my money goes to my own animals first and then to a small number of other charities after.


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## ester (30 May 2016)

MotherOfChickens said:



			I guess I just don't understand the (emotional) investment in a horse that a)they have never met or maybe met in passing b) a horse that will almost certainly be looked after professionally. Or maybe they all just have more money than I do lol. My money goes on my horses and after them, it goes on charities for horses less well off. Had the crowdfunding people considered how to keep the horse rather than just purchasing him?Isnt that the first rule of owning a horse 

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That's very much my thought. 
I think the intention would have been to gift the money to Carl so he could buy him though no one asked him if he wanted to keep him until his dying day.


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## popsdosh (30 May 2016)

eahotson said:



			I have every sympathy with the creditors,some of whom may well have gone bankrupt themselves because of money owed to them by Sasha Stewart and her father and yes Carl is probably also a creditor.Apart from Carl none of the other creditors owe Uthopia a thing.Utopia was popular as a stud just after the Olympics and if he had carried on competing would still be popular I expect.If he had gone to Rio and been successful? Utopia wasn't the only thing they tried to hide by the look of it.It's regrettable but human nature to try to hang on to what you have got.Of course you have to be hard headed in any business to succeed but money can't be the sole arbiter or it all becomes very joyless. Out of curiosity how can creditors who have had no contact with Uthopia personally or financially be asked to contribute towards his keep.
		
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When an administrator is appointed in bankruptcy they then become responsible for the upkeep of the chattel until it is disposed of and they have a responsibility in Law to settle those debts first. 6yrs will add up to a tidy bill. otherwise who else was to pay for his upkeep.


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## Alec Swan (30 May 2016)

popsdosh said:



			When an administrator is appointed in bankruptcy they then become responsible for the upkeep of the chattel until it is disposed of and they have a responsibility in Law to settle those debts first. 6yrs will add up to a tidy bill. otherwise who else was to pay for his upkeep.
		
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You're right in your assertions.  Six years even at £5k per year would account for half the sale price,  or there abouts! 

A sad end,  when we think about it.

Alec.


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## Damnation (31 May 2016)

Biting my nails wanting to know who bought Uthopia...

I know no announcement will be made until the money has been paid and the legalities dealt with, apparently they believe the buyer to be Irish? (According to the statement issued by CH)

Regarding Heather Moffett - she always stated it was rumoured the PS had bought Uthopia, never stated it as truth which is the crux of it. The rumours  didn't originate with her, she was merely saying what had been heard by her. (I was following the original thread). 

It is a lesson in ensuring your privacy settings are infact private, and you never post anything you will not admit to in a court of law


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## Ceifer (2 June 2016)

I'm interested to know the full details of what Heather Moffett said. Was she misquoted?
I've been on the receiving end of her opinions before and she almost ruined my career because of her assumptions.


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## lula (2 June 2016)

Ceifer said:



			I'm interested to know the full details of what Heather Moffett said. Was she misquoted?
I've been on the receiving end of her opinions before and she almost ruined my career because of her assumptions.
		
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was she misquoted? If you were a lawyer you'd say yes but she started the trouble by saying she had it on 'very good authority' Carl Hester had not bought Utiopia, then on the same thread she said - and i cant remember the exact words here, so someone may correct me- that she was pretty sure PS had bought him.

She implied strongly she was in the know, so when she said PS had not bought the horse people assumed, naturally, she had inside information.

Her back tracking saying she said no such thing on the British Dressage fb page while people provided screenshots of her exact words proving her wrong was rather entertaining and did her credibility no good at all in my opinion.

Sometimes HM really would be better off keeping it shut.


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## DragonSlayer (2 June 2016)

Ceifer said:



			I'm interested to know the full details of what Heather Moffett said. Was she misquoted?
I've been on the receiving end of her opinions before and she almost ruined my career because of her assumptions.
		
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That's awful. As I said before, I couldn't believe what she was posting on here once, I was quite shocked! Glad your career wasn't destroyed!


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## Damnation (2 June 2016)

All she said was she heard a rumour that PS had bought him.

(I am staying on the fence!!!)


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## Ceifer (2 June 2016)

DragonSlayer said:



			That's awful. As I said before, I couldn't believe what she was posting on here once, I was quite shocked! Glad your career wasn't destroyed!
		
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Thankfully it wasn't. But she has a lot of followers and she doesn't realise how damaging she can be


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## GoblinPony (3 June 2016)

Damnation said:



			All she said was she heard a rumour that PS had bought him.
		
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No, she didn't say she heard a 'rumour'. Had she put it like that, there probably wouldn't have been all that hullabaloo. She said she had it on 'very good authority' Carl Hester had not been able to secure Uthopia, and in the following post she said she heard PS might have bought the horse. Her post was misleading because of how it was presented. It looked as if she heard the PS bit from the same trusted source.


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## stormox (3 June 2016)

Does anyone know who DID buy him?


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## 9tails (3 June 2016)

GoblinPony said:



			No, she didn't say she heard a 'rumour'. Had she put it like that, there probably wouldn't have been all that hullabaloo. She said she had it on 'very good authority' Carl Hester had not been able to secure Uthopia, and in the following post she said she heard PS might have bought the horse. Her post was misleading because of how it was presented. It looked as if she heard the PS bit from the same trusted source.
		
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Didn't the charmer also suggest that someone secretly geld Uti too?


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## MotherOfChickens (3 June 2016)

GoblinPony said:



			No, she didn't say she heard a 'rumour'. Had she put it like that, there probably wouldn't have been all that hullabaloo. She said she had it on 'very good authority' Carl Hester had not been able to secure Uthopia, and in the following post she said she heard PS might have bought the horse. Her post was misleading because of how it was presented. It looked as if she heard the PS bit from the same trusted source.
		
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and as she's says herself, CH is a personal friend of hers so it's no wonder people thought she knew more than she did.


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## Diamore (3 June 2016)

9tails said:



			Didn't the charmer also suggest that someone secretly geld Uti too?
		
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Yup that definitely was on there!!!


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## JanetGeorge (3 June 2016)

GoblinPony said:



			No, she didn't say she heard a 'rumour'. Had she put it like that, there probably wouldn't have been all that hullabaloo. She said she had it on 'very good authority' Carl Hester had not been able to secure Uthopia, and in the following post she said she heard PS might have bought the horse. Her post was misleading because of how it was presented. It looked as if she heard the PS bit from the same trusted source.
		
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But she didn't SAY that - everyone jumped to conclusions.  If you had to type everything you put on FB after a legal look at your words, FB would die.  She made a mistake - who CARES!!


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## GoblinPony (3 June 2016)

You are right, technically she didn't say PS definitely bough Uti. However, she is a public person with a big following. She claims friendship with CH, too. One would think a person in that position would be more careful with what they put out there and how their words come across. She said she heard something from a reliable source (strongly implying inside knowledge) and then posted another update shortly after that. It led people to believe that both statements were based on information from the same source. She didn't say that the latter was a mere rumour or speculation.


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## eahotson (3 June 2016)

JanetGeorge said:



			But she didn't SAY that - everyone jumped to conclusions.  If you had to type everything you put on FB after a legal look at your words, FB would die.  She made a mistake - who CARES!!
		
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Quite


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## Booboos (3 June 2016)

OK guys I admit it, I've bought Uthopia. It's part share with Lord Lucan to keep Shergar company in retirement. I've bought an extra large freezer, let me know if you could use some semen.


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## GoblinPony (3 June 2016)

Paid for him with Inca gold, I'm sure.


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## Alec Swan (4 June 2016)

Another bloody field ornament.  You should know better,  Booboos! 

Alec.


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## tristar (4 June 2016)

lord lucan is still wanted on suspicion of murder, poor shergar was stolen by gunmen from the aga khan stud, and never found, he won the derby by the longest distance in the history of the race, and thoughts always stray to him when passing the stud, not really funny.

no doubt you will be retraining uti with rollkur, as you are well known as a defender of such methods.


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## Bryndu (4 June 2016)

Golly.....you have kept Shergar to a good age 

Bryndu


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## Booboos (4 June 2016)

Yes it's thanks to my patented, and very reasonably priced, supplements.


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## Mince Pie (4 June 2016)

tristar said:



			lord lucan is still wanted on suspicion of murder, poor shergar was stolen by gunmen from the aga khan stud, and never found, he won the derby by the longest distance in the history of the race, and thoughts always stray to him when passing the stud, not really funny.

no doubt you will be retraining uti with rollkur, as you are well known as a defender of such methods.
		
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Wow, snippy much? Obviously the sarcasm was lost on you...


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## Clodagh (4 June 2016)

tristar said:



			lord lucan is still wanted on suspicion of murder, poor shergar was stolen by gunmen from the aga khan stud, and never found, he won the derby by the longest distance in the history of the race, and thoughts always stray to him when passing the stud, not really funny.

no doubt you will be retraining uti with rollkur, as you are well known as a defender of such methods.
		
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It must be a struggle day to day for you, taking everything so literally.
I am pretty sure LL has now been declared dead...could be wrong though.


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## tristar (4 June 2016)

it might be problem for the people concerned who have never had closure.

who said sarcasm is the lowest form of wit please?  ha ha


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## Booboos (4 June 2016)

"Sarcasm is the lowest form of whit, but the highest form of intelligence" Oscar Wild


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## tristar (4 June 2016)

i think that should be `wit` and` Wilde`, Booboos??
however as i left school at fourteen never to return, i could be wrong!!!`


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## Crugeran Celt (4 June 2016)

Haven't read all of this thread but are we any wiser as to who now owns this horse?  Other than Lord Lucan, who as far as know, didn't have an interest. Lol


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## popsdosh (5 June 2016)

Crugeran Celt said:



			Haven't read all of this thread but are we any wiser as to who now owns this horse?  Other than Lord Lucan, who as far as know, didn't have an interest. Lol
		
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I think its true to say the new owner thinks its nobody elses business and I tend to agree with them!


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## Crugeran Celt (5 June 2016)

popsdosh said:



			I think its true to say the new owner thinks its nobody elses business and I tend to agree with them!
		
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If I had bought him I would have been more than happy to tell the horsey world that I now owned him and his future was secure.  Surely there is nothing to hide, people are just interested they mean no harm.


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## stormox (5 June 2016)

I see no reason at all why the new owner/s shouldnt keep the purchase of Uthopia to themselves - look at all the negative comments that appeared on social media sites when Totillas and others got sold. Its no ones business apart from theirs, really.


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## Alec Swan (5 June 2016)

Crugeran Celt said:



			&#8230;&#8230;.. Surely there is nothing to hide, people are just interested they mean no harm.
		
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Would you be prepared to share the private or business aspect of your life with the rest of the world?  You would?  I'll prepare a questionnaire for your consideration! 

I've never understood how or why the public should have any right to consider that they should be kept informed of the private lives of others.  It is neither your affair,  nor mine,  nor anyone else's. 

Alec.


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## WandaMare (5 June 2016)

Alec its true that people are entitled to their privacy, but in this case its slightly different because Utopia has competed with a rider who has a huge public profile and lots of very dedicated fans who have supported the partnership and cheered them on on many occasion. People get fond of these horses, I know I do when I see them representing our country and achieving such great success for the sport. 

Personally I'm not interested in the price / costs, private details or anything like that, but I would be interested to know that the horse will have a positive future. Like many others its a genuine care for the horse which is motivating my curiosity to know where he is going, not some inappropriate nosiness.


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## stormox (5 June 2016)

Im sure the horse will have a positive future. No one is going to pay £165k for a horse and not treat him well. Some people like privacy, and dont want to be plastered all over FB, forums etc. Look at the negatiive comments on here when it was suggested (incorrectly as it turned out) Paul Schockemohle had bought him!!


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## Crugeran Celt (5 June 2016)

Alec Swan said:



			Would you be prepared to share the private or business aspect of your life with the rest of the world?  You would?  I'll prepare a questionnaire for your consideration! 

I've never understood how or why the public should have any right to consider that they should be kept informed of the private lives of others.  It is neither your affair,  nor mine,  nor anyone else's. 

Alec.
		
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I am obviously a very uncomplicated person whose only interest in this is to know the horse will be cared for going into his latter years. I have no intrest in the price he went for or any personal details of his new owner or what they intend to do with him.  As to sharing my personal/business interests to the rest of the world it would be very boring fodder for the masses.


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## tristar (5 June 2016)

i believe there is a genuine concern over the fate of the horse, to me because of toto to some extent, and a lot will depend on where he ends up, in this case especially because his future is determined by public  auction, and  the lead up to the auction sale could make you feel the circumstances are precarious and uncertain, ie those who care about him would not be able to veto a purchaser, and choose the best home for him, as they see it

the horse could not be more high profile, i don`t feel like i`m being nosy, but i probably am, but would be interested to see how he works for a new rider, as i am interested in training horses.

anyway i hope the new owners will let us know how he is.


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## tristar (5 June 2016)

i believe there is a genuine concern over the fate of the horse, to me because of toto to some extent, and a lot will depend on where he ends up, in this case especially because his future is determined by public  auction, and  the lead up to the auction sale could make you feel the circumstances are precarious and uncertain, ie those who care about him would not be able to veto a purchaser, and choose the best home for him, as they see it

the horse could not be more high profile, i don`t feel like i`m being nosy, but i probably am, but would be interested to see how he works for a new rider, as i am interested in training horses.

anyway i hope the new owners will let us know how he is.


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## tristar (5 June 2016)

due to techno-no-nohow pressed twice sorry!


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## Booboos (5 June 2016)

tristar said:



			due to techno-no-nohow pressed twice sorry!
		
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No worries, at least you didn't mis-spell anything!


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## tristar (5 June 2016)

well if i spelled it correctly it must be a miracle


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