# Please Help! My horse has been stolen!



## jr286 (28 June 2011)

Hello all, 

I was wondering if any of you could help me. I put my horse out on loan to a local lady around 3 years ago now. We agreed on a 'permanent' loan home and i still have the contract and passport of the horse.
However, she will not let us visit him on the yard and has threatened to call the police if we go on the yard as we would be trespassing!! 
I have attempted to terminate the contract, but she won't allow us on to the yard to collect him.
We met up and she agreed to buy him from us, we have this in writing. However, she will not answer her phone or emails and has changed her number before to avoid me! 
She has also sold on the tack he came with without asking us first! 

She said the only way we will get him back or get money from her is to take her to court, but I simply can't afford this. 

Has any one got any suggestions on what I can do?

Thanks!


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## 1stclassalan (29 June 2011)

How valueable is your horse? If he's under £3,000 I think - it will classed as a case in the Small Claims Court and you can do it yourself on line - costs about £70.00 most people cave in when they see you are serious.

If you really do have a contract etc., etc., I should have someone look at the wording.


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## GingerCat (29 June 2011)

Is she the owner of the yard?

If not, then speak to the yard owner and explain that the horse belongs to you and that you are taking steps to recover it.

I'm sorry to say that the police will be of very little help in this situation, they are unlikely to become involved. 

Unfortunately it can be difficult to prove ownership in situations like this..a passport is not proof of ownership.

Just a thought...
Are you trying to get the horse back or do you want her to buy him?
Just asking as my friend had a horse on loan for 7 years, she got him as a barely broken youngster, very green. He's now a well schooled allrounder, and has been successfully shown by my daughter for the past two seasons. His owner got wind of this and told my friend that she wants to sell him and  offered him to my friend for a ridiculous sum...a real cheek as it's my friend and my daughter that has turned him into the cracking animal he is today! My friend called her bluff and told her to collect him within 24 hours or she would pass all livery fees onto her. They then agreed that my friend would buy him for the same amount as he was worth when my friend first loaned him.
I'm not suggesting that you are trying to make a profit from this woman, but is it possible that she may _think_ that you are? Have you asked for more than she feels the horse is worth? Has she put in a lot of work and effort into the horse?
Perhaps it's worth speaking to her again if your relationship has previously been friendly, through a third party if that would help.


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## daft (29 June 2011)

If it was me i would just turn up at the yard and collect my horse!!, then when the owner of the yard asksed me what was going on, i would explain then when the horse was in my box!!! 

I bet if the police were then called then they would have to do something and i bet the other woman who had him on loan would soon answer the phone sometimes its best to go full steam ahead IMO!! there is no way i would let anybody take my horse or think they could keep my horse.

My reply is my opinion only so please no nasty replys to me im just stating i would go and get my horse back police, lady, yard owner or not i do hope you do manage to get your horse back xx


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## stormhorse (6 July 2011)

if you want advice contact Missing on loan 

missinghorsesonloan@googlemail.com


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## wildcard (6 July 2011)

Im sorry but i have to be inclined to agree with "DAFT" If you have tried the nicey nice approach and she isnt co - operating then i would go in all guns blazings. Loan is exactly what it states "loan" This does not mean the loane can just decide to take it upon them selves to keep the horse. I would turn up with my box and collect my horse if she calls the police then so be it. End of the day the horse belongs to you and as long as you have tried to go by terms written in your contract and give notice you want it back etc then what more can you do. Go take your horse back get it to a safe place then if the woman still wants to dispute things by all means let her and unfortunately if she prooves to be correct then you may have to give the horse back but at least you will know totally where you stand and would have to put it down as a big lesson learnt. 

But i would just go and collect personally if it was my horse. Again just a personal opinion. 

Hope you resolve the problem tho. xxxx


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## hayley123horses (6 July 2011)

I totall agree with the post set by "DAFT" the nice approach is going nowhere just collect your horse and explain after if they threaten the police advise excellant news at last it will be sorted if they get violent again painful but good news as you would get the backing you need.

I really hope you d get your horse back soon


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## Flicker (7 July 2011)

Are you sure she is still actually in possession of the horse?  If so, I'm with Daft and the others - just rock up and collect it.
Good luck x


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## RolyPolyPony (8 July 2011)

I agree with others.  I personally wouldnt care if the police were called.  If you're the horses legal owner then why shouldnt you just go and collect it!


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## Bosworth (9 July 2011)

I am a yard owner, and yesterday someone turned up at my yard. They asked if I was the yard owner, then told me they owned one of the horses on my yard and wanted to go and see it. I refused to allow it. They have no proof they own it. My contract is with the person who has the horse on loan. These people may well be the owners but how am I supposed to know it. I know that 2 months ago the owner turned up without telling the person who has it on loan or me. He went into my fields took out the horse, tacked it up and hacked it out. He phoned the person who has it on loan when he was back at the yard. I was livid and so was the person who has him on loan. How dare an unknown person trespass on my yard. Go into my fields where I have my horses and my liveries horses, remove a horse with out permission and ride it. So when they turned up yesterday I asked them to leave, told them I was not allowing them on the yard, when they started to have a go at me I threatened them with the police. The horse is a bay TB, there are 4 bay TB's in the field. the horse looks nothing like he did when he arrived and what if he took a different TB as his was in a dreadful state when it arrived. 

My contract is with the person who has him on loan. I am more than happy with owners coming and seeing their horse on loan, as long as I have been introduced to the owners by the person i have the contract with. 

They did leave, but imagine from the yard owners point of view, if you turn up and they don;t know you from adam they should prevent you entering their premises at all costs. That is what liveries should expect, the YO has a duty of care to their clients.


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## smiffyimp (9 July 2011)

Are you the person that was on here a week or so ago asking about this??? Im sure missinghorsesonloan@googlemail.com contacted you via the forum and asked for the details, have you not sent them?? This is the best way to sort this out.


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## KS1 (9 July 2011)

I have heard varied situations where a horse was stolen and sold on to some unsuspecting person. This person then became the legal owner of the horse and the true owner could only get the horse back if the new owner agreed and then they could insist the true owner bought the horse back.

The police did not want to know.

Personnaly if it happened to me I would immediately go and just take my horse back, I'd take along every bit of evidence that proved the horse was mine in case the YO asked. 

But then this is one reason why I will not allow my horse to leave the yard if he ever went on loan.


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## lexiedhb (10 July 2011)

Bosworth said:



			I am a yard owner, and yesterday someone turned up at my yard. They asked if I was the yard owner, then told me they owned one of the horses on my yard and wanted to go and see it. I refused to allow it. They have no proof they own it. My contract is with the person who has the horse on loan. These people may well be the owners but how am I supposed to know it. I know that 2 months ago the owner turned up without telling the person who has it on loan or me. He went into my fields took out the horse, tacked it up and hacked it out. He phoned the person who has it on loan when he was back at the yard. I was livid and so was the person who has him on loan. How dare an unknown person trespass on my yard. Go into my fields where I have my horses and my liveries horses, remove a horse with out permission and ride it. So when they turned up yesterday I asked them to leave, told them I was not allowing them on the yard, when they started to have a go at me I threatened them with the police. The horse is a bay TB, there are 4 bay TB's in the field. the horse looks nothing like he did when he arrived and what if he took a different TB as his was in a dreadful state when it arrived. 

My contract is with the person who has him on loan. I am more than happy with owners coming and seeing their horse on loan, as long as I have been introduced to the owners by the person i have the contract with. 

They did leave, but imagine from the yard owners point of view, if you turn up and they don;t know you from adam they should prevent you entering their premises at all costs. That is what liveries should expect, the YO has a duty of care to their clients.
		
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Totally understandable.

However if the OP turned up with a contract and said horses passport and explained the story then I do not see how you can tell her to pee off.

Personally I think it sounds like she may have sold the horse on. I would definitely be turning up - whether she said I could or not!


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## JAGER BOMB :) (10 July 2011)

Bosworth said:



			I am a yard owner, and yesterday someone turned up at my yard. They asked if I was the yard owner, then told me they owned one of the horses on my yard and wanted to go and see it. I refused to allow it. They have no proof they own it. My contract is with the person who has the horse on loan. These people may well be the owners but how am I supposed to know it. I know that 2 months ago the owner turned up without telling the person who has it on loan or me. He went into my fields took out the horse, tacked it up and hacked it out. He phoned the person who has it on loan when he was back at the yard. I was livid and so was the person who has him on loan. How dare an unknown person trespass on my yard. Go into my fields where I have my horses and my liveries horses, remove a horse with out permission and ride it. So when they turned up yesterday I asked them to leave, told them I was not allowing them on the yard, when they started to have a go at me I threatened them with the police. The horse is a bay TB, there are 4 bay TB's in the field. the horse looks nothing like he did when he arrived and what if he took a different TB as his was in a dreadful state when it arrived. 

My contract is with the person who has him on loan. I am more than happy with owners coming and seeing their horse on loan, as long as I have been introduced to the owners by the person i have the contract with. 

They did leave, but imagine from the yard owners point of view, if you turn up and they don;t know you from adam they should prevent you entering their premises at all costs. That is what liveries should expect, the YO has a duty of care to their clients.
		
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if they have proof they are the owner would you have allowed them on the yard? just wondering?  if i wanted to cancel a loan or come and see my horse that i had loaned out (wouldnt ride it tho would just come see if it is ok) i would be pretty peeved if i was told i couldnt... i understand that you dont know them from adam and that is fair enough, but if i brought proof would you have let me see my horse if that was me? xxx i agree with everyone else im afraid i would go collect my horse as it sounds like she is just trying to pull a fast one and nothing else seems to be working . i hope you manage to get him back hun xxx


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## Naryafluffy (21 July 2011)

smiffyimp said:



			Are you the person that was on here a week or so ago asking about this??? Im sure missinghorsesonloan@googlemail.com contacted you via the forum and asked for the details, have you not sent them?? This is the best way to sort this out.
		
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Sounds very similar to the other post doesn't it.
MHOL where looking into that and had updated the thread about there were circumstances that not everyone knew about.


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## Kat (21 July 2011)

Do you have a written loan contract? 

If so give notice in writing under the contract, keep a copy of the letter with proof of postage. If that has already been done write and say that unless you are contacted within 24 hours to arrange collection of the horse you will be making your own arrangements without further notice. 

Then rock up to the yard, with the copy loan agreement, copy letters giving notice and stating that you are collecting the horse, the copy of your original purchase receipt for the horse, the original passport, and copies of any correspondence that shows that the loaner was loaning the horse rather than buying it from you. Collect the horse. If the YO won't let you show them the evidence and suggest that they contact the loaner. If they still won't let you then call the police. 

The key is that you need proof that you still own the horse and that the horse is on loan. You need to be able to establish your right to take the horse. 

Oh and for anyone thinking of loaning their horse a word of advice. Put the details of where the loan horse will be kept in the contract with provision that the horse cannot be moved without written permission. Before the horse is delivered to the loaner visit the yard, meet the yard owner and tell them who you are. Ask them to note their records that the horse is on loan and that you are the owner, contact the vet and do the same, keep the insurance in your name and notify them that the horse is on loan (name the loaner) but still owned by you. This is important, not only for this sort of situation but for situations where the horse may need emergency vet treatment or PTS. 

Anything can be used as evidence that the horse is on loan and still used by you (although it won't necessarily be conclusive) things like the passport help but so does evidence that you have kept the horse insured, vet records etc.


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## Naryafluffy (21 July 2011)

KristmasKatt said:



			Do you have a written loan contract? 

If so give notice in writing under the contract, keep a copy of the letter with proof of postage. If that has already been done write and say that unless you are contacted within 24 hours to arrange collection of the horse you will be making your own arrangements without further notice. 

Then rock up to the yard, with the copy loan agreement, copy letters giving notice and stating that you are collecting the horse, the copy of your original purchase receipt for the horse, the original passport, and copies of any correspondence that shows that the loaner was loaning the horse rather than buying it from you. Collect the horse. If the YO won't let you show them the evidence and suggest that they contact the loaner. If they still won't let you then call the police. 

The key is that you need proof that you still own the horse and that the horse is on loan. You need to be able to establish your right to take the horse. 

Oh and for anyone thinking of loaning their horse a word of advice. Put the details of where the loan horse will be kept in the contract with provision that the horse cannot be moved without written permission. Before the horse is delivered to the loaner visit the yard, meet the yard owner and tell them who you are. Ask them to note their records that the horse is on loan and that you are the owner, contact the vet and do the same, keep the insurance in your name and notify them that the horse is on loan (name the loaner) but still owned by you. This is important, not only for this sort of situation but for situations where the horse may need emergency vet treatment or PTS. 

Anything can be used as evidence that the horse is on loan and still used by you (although it won't necessarily be conclusive) things like the passport help but so does evidence that you have kept the horse insured, vet records etc.
		
Click to expand...

This story has already been put on the Stolen Forum and MHOL (Missing Horses on Loan) are looking into this as apparently it's not quite as cut and dry as it seems. Not sure why it's being reposted on this forum.


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## pip6 (21 July 2011)

As you still have all the documents, surely once you terminate the loan & she ahs failed to return the horse it is theft? Send her a termination notice by registered mail, one to her home & a copy to the YO (who definately needs to be kept in the loop). If she fails to comply, then as it's theft & you expect trouble arrange for the police to be at the yard when to go to collect the horse (go with copies of termination notice & proof of registered mail to both YO & loaner). I'm no legal person, but that is how I would approach it.

Even if the loaner wants to take back an 'improved' horse, that it there perogative & if the loaner has serious doubts about the standard of care the horse would receive back in the owners care (no insinuation, just trying to see both angles), then she has to return the horse then follow appropriate channels such as RSPCA. Bottom line is the owner owns the horse.


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## muff747 (21 July 2011)

I think this story demonstrates how YO property is take for granted by people who pay for livery, some seem to think they can do what they like on the yard once you have a horse there.
I try to remember that the farm/yard is (usually) the owners home.  
So how would you like it if you invited someone to come to your house but they brought loads of friends and let their dogs run amok and poo all over your garden?
I think it is so disrespectful to the owner of the land.
I don't think you can just barge in there, even if the horse is yours, you have to talk to the YO first.


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## ado123 (26 July 2011)

Try legal action - it does work - depending on how much you actually earn you may get help with fees AND of course if you win then the other person pays all your legal costs so it actually costs you nothing.   Whereabouts in the country are you?


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