# Is a Grackle and a Cheltenham Gag ok to use together?



## mastermax (16 October 2014)

Sorry if this  seems a dumb question but after seriously no brakes or control in a universal and cavasson noseband, I have just found out from his previous owner that he has to have a grackle for fast work ie hunting as his crosses and sets his jaw. He is an immensely strong thick set cob at 15hh. I have ridden him this evening in a cheltenham with a lozenge as he hates single joint and he went very well in it although I realise I cant "test" it til Saturday. So really just wondering if it is considered ok to put the grackle on with this bit. Many thanks


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## old hand (16 October 2014)

Not really, the gag action needs the mouth to open for it to rise up and work correctly.  Did use one on my Grade A but did not do up the nose end tight, you should be able to get two fingers in any noseband.  the topend may stop him crossing his jaw if he isnt that persistent.  How about a kineton but that would work better with a snaffle of some sort?  I had a cleveland bay x arab/welsh that was built similarly, rode him in a vulcanite pelham but schooled him in a french eggbut snaffle.  Schooling is the real answer he needs to learn to lighten and soften his jaw, turned my downhill barge into a dressage horse that won at riding club area and was in the first three dressage at every event he went to.  Its hard work to start with but well worth it, and you will need a good pair of eyes on the ground.  Good luck.


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## Addicted to Hunting (16 October 2014)

Is used fairly often on the hunting field, it certainly won't be frowned on.


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## I.M.N. (17 October 2014)

I use a cheltenham and a drop, works a treat, though mine opens his mouth not crosses it.


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## Shay (17 October 2014)

I see the grackle / gag combination often enough on the hunting field.  By all means try it.


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## Ditchjumper2 (17 October 2014)

The most important thing on the hunting field for yours and everyone elses safety and enjoyment is brakes!!! So if it works use it. I have used a Cheltenham and flash...it was the only thing that worked on my Shire cross. If all I had done was school him he would never have hunted as he had no mouth whatsoever !!!

Just try it and take it from there. The worse ever feeling is knowing that you cannot stop.


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## EquiEquestrian556 (17 October 2014)

Yes it is fine. Many people I know use that combo, and I myself hunt in a grackle & dutch gag - mare goes like a dream.


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## mastermax (18 October 2014)

Many thanks for all your replies. He schools beautifully in a french link baucher and hacks fine in a snaffle but like you all say, brakes are paramount. I will try this combination and fingers crossed I will stop. He is amazingly well behaved in between runs but crosses to the "dark side of the anti-christ" on anything over a trot. Many thanks again.


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## Christmas Crumpet (20 October 2014)

I am currently hunting my new horse in a grackle and a Neue Schule Nelson gag which seems to work well. 

I used to hunt my old 15hh cob in a cheltenham gag and grackle - it was the only thing that worked!!


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## Bernster (20 October 2014)

Helpful stuff, am gonna try a grackle and NS Universal and if she goes ok, will test it on the next hunt outing.


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