# What illness/injury could cause disunited canter?



## alpha1 (5 August 2010)

Hi,

My horse always goes disunited in canter, both on the lunge and when ridden. 

I've not had her long and she is only 5yo. At first I thought it was lack of balance but I tried her on bute for 24 hours and she cantered correctly....we obviously have a pain related problem!

She has passed three 5* vettings in the last 18 months (she was imported from Ireland through a dealer hence number of vettings), she trots up sound after flexion tests and does not appear lame at any time. I'm not sure if it could be related but she bred a foal at 2/3 yo. 

Of course at some point I will need to call the physio/vet but if anyone can offer any opinions on what might be causing this i'd be most grateful. Thanks


----------



## charlie76 (5 August 2010)

Whats her muscle development like? The most likely problem is a sacroiliac strain.
If she is cantering in true canter how does it feel? Stiff? Stilted?


----------



## Farma (5 August 2010)

I 2nd the above sacroilliac area is quite likely to be the problem- have you looked at how she lunges in the trot - does she step under or do one or both hind legs on the inside not step through properly?


----------



## cob1 (5 August 2010)

My 6 year old cob had sprained his supraspinous ligament last year and was disunited on the lunge, bucking and broncing and disunited under saddle - he has a low pain threshold! 

Only a ultrasound scan picked it up after 6 months of physio (we thought it was the saddle, then that he was footsore with no shoes on causing him to alter his gait) - he went in for a full work up to vets, had this and xrays when it was found immediately. If nothing found on these they were going to do a bone scan etc.

Luckily after 3 months physio, daily danilon and gradually been brought back into work, he is absolutely fine a year on! 

The only thing was it took a long time to find as we explored many avenues before taking him in for the work up, if its been going on a while maybe get the work up done and know either way - i wish we had just done this.

Any questions, just PM me. 

Also they thought it was probably caused by a field injury such as slipping or falling over.


----------



## alpha1 (5 August 2010)

Thank you for the replies, I am going to read up on your suggestions and see what I can find out. 

Farma & charlie76, if it is a sacroiliac strain who is the best person to diagnose? Physio/McTimoney/vet?


----------



## Roxanne (5 August 2010)

I had a horse that was constantly (80% of the time) disunited and it turned out to be kissing spines.

She did fail a flexion test being slightly lame though and that was how it was found after x rays.


----------



## alpha1 (5 August 2010)

Thanks Roxanne but she is sound and level, its only this disunited problem. I thought she would show some signs of discomfort if she was sore? I just dont understand it?!


----------



## beetlejuice (5 August 2010)

saddle problems??


----------



## Crazydancer (5 August 2010)

My horse seemed to be sound and level in trot, but started dropping out of canter in corners, or going disunited. After nerve blocking, scans, and keyhole surgery it turned out he'd damaged ligaments in his hock, probably from over-stretching it while messing around in the field.... (this was 10 years ago, so I don't have all the technical diagnosis, I just remember which bit the problem was!) 

One thing we did pick up was that his saddle slipped very slightly while been ridden (pommel end was fine, cantle would slip over by about 2 inches) and also if you looked at him trotting directly at you (or away) his hind legs would be slightly out of line with his fronts. The vets that looked at him didn't pick up on this immediatley as it is quite a subtle thing.

Might be something to have a look for. PM me if you need more info.


----------



## Divasmum (5 August 2010)

We had this last Autumn and it was a tightness in the back behind the saddle area. The horse was changed to using a Haybar, worked on the lunge with a pessoa and lots of hacking in a long and low outline. He also had a good osteopath for a few sessions. It worked and he has got some more BD points since then.


----------



## shark1 (5 August 2010)

i had one with that trouble, she had majorly damaged her stifle when she rolled under a fence and into a river as a baby (dont ask!) but since she had a one off joint injection in said stifle a few years ago she has been 110% since.


----------



## alpha1 (5 August 2010)

Thanks guys! Could you please tell me who diagnosed these problems for you? Physio or vet?


----------



## irishdraft (5 August 2010)

My mare goes disunited in canter in the school and on the lunge, I buted her and she went sound. Went to the vet about another problem and it turned out she had slight arthritis in her right hock she is very slightly lame on the straight. I only hunt and hack so just give her Danilon when she needs it and she lives out all year. This first started when she was 7.


----------



## glenruby (5 August 2010)

I would have to slightly disagree with the majority saying sacro-iliac problem. I would think that may be a secondary problem but there are many causes of ridden problems/bucking/disunited canter/teeth grinding under saddle and these are usually caused by hindlimb "lameness". The most recent I have seen was a 5yo TB "uncomfortable" in canter. Struck off on the wrong leg consistently on the R rein and was grinding her teeth all the time when trotting or cantering. 100% sound in straight line and on hard and soft lunge. Flexion negative on day of full work-up (had been mild positive LH on the initial examination but always sound ridden/lunged/straight line. 2 vets disagred with me and thought it to be purely behavioural. Blocked her LH TMT (hock) and straight away she was relaxing her neck, stopped teeth grinding completely and struck off on the right leg on both reins. 
Take your horse to a good equine vet with facilities to see him working under saddle and look for a "loss of performnce" work-up.


----------



## roscommon2 (12 October 2010)

Calling anybody with experience of patellar luxation(horse strikes off disunited in left canter and drags toes), and the use of joint "fillers" as a form of treatment? Only bought 3 wks and becoming apparent now, 5 yr old halfbred.


----------



## debsflo (12 October 2010)

i had the same .appeared sound only diagnosed at rossdales and was lame on both hindlegs suspensory ligaments and secondary back pain.   definatley investigate .both my equine vet and physio couldnt find a cause,


----------



## star (12 October 2010)

you need to get a vet before you start getting various back people out.  you could invalidate your insurance otherwise.  it's also illegal for them to treat without your vet's ok.

it might be a back problem, but equally my youngster started showing similar signs this year and he turned out to have OCD in both stifles and a cruciate ligament problem.


----------



## Bowen4Horses (12 October 2010)

i'd get a vet as your first point of call, as you don't know what the cause is... and chiropractors deal with different things than, say, a physiotherapist... also, as Star points out, the vet has to give permission for any treatment to take place, so they'd probably want to investigate first. 

good luck! x


----------



## Coffee_Bean (12 October 2010)

Could be a whole number of things- kissing spines, sacroiliac, saddle, hip problems... Good luck


----------



## angwynsmum (26 February 2011)

Hi new to the forum! Sorry about the long winded story below

My sect D has experienced a number of problems and with retrospect i think its been progressive and leading up to the current problem. 

Over the past two years he has struggled with working straight on the left rein - falling in and crooked. My instructor and I worked hard to remedy this but still found him unable to canter left without going disunited/wrong leg/crooked - had the physio out and she found him tender through his shoulder initially so changed his saddle as he had some atrophy on his right hand side of his back. I spent a lot of money on a reactor panel saddle and his shoulder problem eased but the back pain continued. Did lots of work over poles, stretching exercises etc but still after 8months of the new saddle no improvement in the canter left. 

Moved yards 6 weeks ago, took it easy with no riding as he takes a while to settle. Utilised the round/lunge pen and did free schooling (which he does very well, walk trot canter and stretching low) 2 weeks in and he started to look funny to me, ever so slightly on his hind leg movement but so subtle, no one else could tell but me. 

Enough was enough and i called the phsyio convinced the saddle is the problem (which maybe it is?) Under saddle his hind leg lameness is much more noticeable. Impulsion very limited, different length of stride and hiking up through his hip - not rotating through the pelvis. This is nowhere near as noticeable on the lunge. Only when saddle on with rider - tried it bareback directly after taking saddle off and he limited bareback. 

He's going in for a full work up monday and i'm worried sick he's got sacroilliac disease. He appears to have most of the symptoms. I know it sounds weird but i'd rather he have hock spavin than that. 

Any ideas? And any positive stories PLEASE! :-(


----------



## Scheherezade (27 February 2011)

Sounds very similar to my lad. He would lose the 'ability' to canter, and be very disunited. We know he has/had OCD in one hock, but it seems to be all over the place. It flares up when he's been brought back into back and is nearing full fitness, medium-heavy work.

Unfortunately we've never been able to figure out 100% what it is - vets just say there is lameness in all legs, in his hocks and in his feet. It was going to cost thousands just for teh investigations, and then god knows how much for the treatments (probably including surgery). So I made a decision. 

Last winter he had time off, and was brought back in. Again his canter was a bit funny and all over the place - but it seemed to be due to him not knowing how to do it properly, rather than out of pain (I have learnt to tell the difference). We persevered and he was working beautifully through the summer. Then he injured himself, and put himself back. So again, he's had time off over winter (5 months!), and I'm bringing him back into work. Touch wood, he's now doing trot work and is sound. When he breaks naturally into canter he seems fine. 

I think he has 1) arthritis in allhis joints - for which he gets supplements. If he goes lame I have a supply of bute. 2) a mental 'block' - he has learnt that if he refuses to canter and wobbles his legs in various directions, I get off. Last summer I got him out of this by cantering uphill, in a field, and by wearing spurs wihch pushed him on.

it's a bit vague, I know. But that's just my situation.


----------



## noblesteed (27 February 2011)

My horse changes in front SOMETIMES down the long side of the arena when cantering on right rein. At first I thought it was my riding but a few instructors have had a look now and think it is more a habitual thing.
I have had chiro out to him a few times to no effect. The vets wanted him in for nerve blocks/x-rays/ scans before they would even DISCUSS possible causes so I said no. ALso tried reiki. He isn't lame or showing any signs of pain (he is massive wimp! so he lets me know if he is suffering) and he is eager to work, hack, jump. It gets better when he is lunged - he is doing it at the moment because we can only get in an arena once a month but he will stop once the field dries up and I can lunge him. 

I should not have read this post as it has scared me silly!


----------



## angwynsmum (3 March 2011)

An update thus far....

He went to the vets and they said that he is 1/10th lame (barely noticeable) in his hind right leg - they couldnt do nerve blocking because he isnt lame enough to do comparable tests. His reaction to flexion tests of his hocks are normal. 

They didnt have the facilities to do a ridden work up so he's off to liverpool leahurst for further investigation - his major lameness doesnt show up unless ridden. Vet doesnt seem to think its sacroilliac as she thinks he'd be experiencing more pain. From deducing the information so far, i would hazard a guess that if it was arthritic, that his hocks/stifle would be the first place to show?? Any thoughts on this would be useful! 

thanks


----------



## debsflo (3 March 2011)

our horse has very similar and is off to vets on monday for a lameness work up .i am also thinking hocks .


----------



## paisley (3 March 2011)

Sorry to hear you're having problems, but well done with trying to sort it out! Mine used to disunite, and work in ever decreasing circles on one rein on the lunge. 

He was initially diagnosed with a very tiny bone spur on on a hock joint, so that when he flexed the leg it was uncomfortable. He was sound to hack and in straight lines, and after a period of gentle work, was 100% sound on flexion tests and on the lunge. 

It was possible that the bony bit was knocked off or he learnt to compensate, but we were very careful to check him regularly, with the occasional bit of bute if he had done extra stuff. 

This was a horse who would let you know very quickly if he was uncomfortable about something, so we were always able to not ask too much. The other option we were given was to operate to remove the bony bit, but as he was coping and not destined for the Olympics it was decided to leave it alone!


----------



## K27 (3 March 2011)

Normally if it's a young horse then it is probably a baby things where the horse hasn't yet built up enough strength in their own frame to stay balanced which hopefully with time and training would improve.... but as she is improving on the bute then maybe it needs checking out by process of elimination.

Assuming the saddle fit is ok, teeth/feet/tack all ok-  some things I can think of that could cause disunited canter would be, lack of engagement, hock probs/arthritic changes which is she is 5 would be very unlucky, sacroiliac/pelvis probs, foot balance issues/heel pain - don't panic reading this though!

Also when my boy was about 6 he went through a stage where he just would not do left canter- turned out he had a problem with his atlas verterbrae joint which my physio worked on and he was much better.

Wishing you lots of luck though- hope it's easily sorted out for you.


----------



## Moo Wills (3 March 2011)

I had this problem with one of mine last year, he also struggled to support himself in the lorry when going round corners (he would cross his front legs over each other which was quite scary..thank god for solid partitions!). 
We had the vet out who checked everything and was fine and recommended getting the physio out before we looked in to anything further (i.e. x-rays etc). Physio found a spasm just behind his saddle area and after 3 treatments and a few days on bute he was fine. Pysio said he hadn't been there for long and has any trauma happened recently - when we thought back we were out showjumping and he stummbled around a corner. Carried on fine, which we now think was adrenaline, and then the lorry episode happened on the way home and the disuniting the week that followed.

Good luck with finding/ sorting the problem


----------



## Fellewell (3 March 2011)

If she's passed several vettings could it be something as simple as warm up/down? Is her wind right?


----------



## FAYEFUDGE (3 March 2011)

Spavins?


----------

