# Retained placenta after 8+hours?



## Spyda (7 September 2009)

A friend called this morning to say her maiden mare had foaled in the night and had produced a lovely strong foal. The mare had foaled outside (it's a Welsh A).

Friend has just called me again now, saying she needs my advice. Apparently she cannot catch the mare in the field and the placenta is still hanging down from the vulva. She said it has dropped further down than it was this morning (not that she mentioned THAT part to me this morning) and is almost touching the ground. Now, since she called me mid-morning when she discovered the mare and the dry foal in the paddock, I am assuming this placenta has been retained for at least 5 hours but probably more like 8, maybe more. I told my friend, in no uncertain terms, to cut the call to me and to get straight onto her vet who needs to come out pronto to attend to the mare. I explained that the mare was at serious risk of uterine complications, but friend was rather bermused saying the mare seemed happy and was grazing quite contentedly with her foal. I told her to call the vet first, then corale the mare up and get her into her stable. I hope to hear back shortly that both instructions have been followed and that the vet is on his way.

Will the mare be okay after this length of time? I am really kicking myself that I didn't ask about the placenta this morning, and just hope there wont be any lasting ill-effects to the mare.


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## Kayfm (7 September 2009)

Yes, The horse needs to see a vet and have it removed as soon as possible.


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## clair (7 September 2009)

This is my worst night mare I've had 3 mares retain this year, 2 were ok the thrid we thought we were going to loose but pulled her through, all had the vet there asap after foaling. xx hope she's ok. xxx


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## henryhorn (7 September 2009)

A mare we sold last year did this and the owners didn't get the vet soon enough, in the end they almost lost the mare and now have to sell her to pay the vet bill. 
Tell your friend to catch the foal by cornering it and then the mare will follow to a stable.. She is really risking her otherwise.


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## madmare22 (7 September 2009)

must be the year for it. I had two with retained placentas this year, but your friend needs to get it out and give the mare some abs just in case


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## Enfys (8 September 2009)

Just as a matter of interest, how long is it before it is technically considered a retained placenta?

My Vet says that he starts to treat it as such after about an hour and a half.


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## clair (8 September 2009)

In horses there's not a huge window, I agree with you vet if mine isn't away within an hour of foaling i call vet......

Lost a mare a couple of years ago that had retained for a few hours due to my in experiance so am very careful these days.


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## AndyPandy (8 September 2009)

I think that, clinically, a retained placenta is one that has not been expelled within 4 hours after parturition, or if a piece of the placenta is missing once is has been expelled.

Normally, however we will begin to treat mares after 1-2 hours if they are still hanging on, and we begin immediate treatment if there is a partial retention.

8-12 hours of retention is the start of the really dangerous period, and 12 hours or more starts to become a greater threat to the mare... laminitis, metritis, septicaemia, and death are all potential sequelae for mares with a retained placenta that are not treated quickly. I hope this mare has been seen to by now.


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## arwenplusone (8 September 2009)

I would say 1 - 2 hours.

One of my mares retained hers for about 4 hours last year - when the vet removed it it had already started to rot.


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## volatis (8 September 2009)

My old vet annoyed me when I phoned him one night after the mare had retained her placenta for over 2 hours. He said not to bother and to phone in the morning if she still hadnt passed it. This was about 2am so had I waited till 8am that would have been over 8 hours. Luckily the mare passed it just over an hour later on her own, but needless to say I was not impressed with his relaxed attitude and he is no longer my vet!


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## JanetGeorge (8 September 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
Just as a matter of interest, how long is it before it is technically considered a retained placenta?

My Vet says that he starts to treat it as such after about an hour and a half. 

[/ QUOTE ]

If the placenta doesn't come away within 60-90 minutes after foaling then it's likely to need help.  My vet trusts me to deal with this problem and supplies me with Oxytocin for the purpose.  I give on jab 90 minutes after foaling - and another 60 minutes later if the first hasn't done the trick.  He has also taught me the next step to help ease the placenta away (and DON'T attempt it if you don't know how because you could kill your mare!!!)

If all THAT fails, then I aim to have the vet there no more than 6 hours after foaling.  Any longer and there is a serious risk of toxic laminitis, infection and even prolapse of the uterus!


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## Enfys (8 September 2009)

I have Oxytocin at foaling time too, and always banamine, tri-tabs, depocillin and sedatives to hand, my Vet can be anything up to 4 hours away from me, especially in the foaling season. He showed me how to deal with a retained placenta too, very hands on. I like my Vet.


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## Spyda (9 September 2009)

Thanks to everyone who replied. It's as I suspected, then. 

I know _I_ wouldn't be happy if a mare of mine hadn't passed the full placenta within an hour or so of birth. Still, I breed woosy TB's and WB's!!! Thought just MAYBE things were slightly different for hardy welsh ponies. Obviously not the case.

Update: Friend did get the mare and foal in, and phoned her vet as I'd instructed. However, her vet did not consider it an emergency and said he'd drop by around 8pm after he'd finished his call-outs. He did. He gave the mare a jab and checked her internally. Not sure how good an examination he could perform with a placenta hanging out of the vulva, since my friend said the placenta didn't actually part company from the mare until an hour and twenty minutes *after* her vet had left????!!!! Hmmmm  
	
	
		
		
	


	





Anyway, friend said vet had confirmed mare was "perfectly fine" after foaling, so she's more than happy. She then added that the vet had mentioned the mare having a touch of colic, but he'd assured her that this was quite normal post-foaling and was nothing to worry about.  Hmmmm.....

Not sure _I'd_ be using that particular vet for my own horses.


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## no_no_nanette (9 September 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks to everyone who replied. It's as I suspected, then. 

I know _I_ wouldn't be happy if a mare of mine hadn't passed the full placenta within an hour or so of birth. Still, I breed woosy TB's and WB's!!! Thought just MAYBE things were slightly different for hardy welsh ponies. Obviously not the case.

Update: Friend did get the mare and foal in, and phoned her vet as I'd instructed. However, her vet did not consider it an emergency and said he'd drop by around 8pm after he'd finished his call-outs. He did. He gave the mare a jab and checked her internally. Not sure how good an examination he could perform with a placenta hanging out of the vulva, since my friend said the placenta didn't actually part company from the mare until an hour and twenty minutes *after* her vet had left????!!!! Hmmmm  
	
	
		
		
	


	





Anyway, friend said vet had confirmed mare was "perfectly fine" after foaling, so she's more than happy. She then added that the vet had mentioned the mare having a touch of colic, but he'd assured her that this was quite normal post-foaling and was nothing to worry about.  Hmmmm.....

Not sure _I'd_ be using that particular vet for my own horses.  
	
	
		
		
	


	





[/ QUOTE ]

Jeez, there's no way that I'd be using that practice - sounds unbelievably casual!!!  Did the vet ask her to keep the placenta so that it could be checked to make sure that it had all come away intact?  Doesn't sound like it ..... Even if he left before the placenta came away he should have arranged to come back to check the condition of the placenta.  If she can check it herself she should do so, and keep a very, very careful eye on the mare for the next few days - the vet is right about mares sometimes showing slight colicky symptoms post foaling (one of ours did), but without being a scaremonger this can also be a sign that there is the start of an infection. Tell her to change vets pronto!!!


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## Spyda (9 September 2009)

First thing I asked the following morning was "Is the placenta complete?" Friend says she hasn't a clue as she could not find it anywhere in the mare's straw bed. She said she assumed the mare had eaten it.  
	
	
		
		
	


	





As for changing vet, friend thinks he's absolutely wonderful and actually said to me yesterday that she'd never dream of changing to someone else.

PS: This same vet told friend that he thought it was quite okay to breed from unregistered mares and mares without any known breeding. He said it was the stallion's breeding that mattered. OMG. I think he just come out of the Dark Ages. 

Now friend is happily trotting off to markets and picking up odd mares to put to her 'unlicenced' colt.  
	
	
		
		
	


	





Granted her colt _is_ lovely but she says she cannot afford to show him or licence him, so will just breed him to her own mares and sell the offspring. Needless to say I am trying desperately to talk her out of this and to encourage her to both show and have her boy graded if she plans to continue breeding him. I've even offered her free transport using my lorry. All on deaf ears, unfortunately.  Her vet has given his stamp of approval, and that's all she wants to hear. Grrrrr


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## clair (9 September 2009)

get a second opinion from a different vet would be my advice, should innfection set in it needs treating and quickly.


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## no_no_nanette (9 September 2009)

Goodness spyda, it gets worse and worse!!!  Makes me realise how incredibly lucky we are with our vets, but I can't believe that he missed what is an absolutely basic check after birth - I think that any stud vet would be totally horrified to hear about this bloke.  It would almost warrant a complaint to the RCVS.  Is he a specialist stud/repro vet?  And then to be saying blithely that its OK to breed from mares with no known breeding when the BHS is currently campaigning to persuade horse owners not to breed just for the sake of it because of the numbers of unwanted foals .... maybe you should print off details of the campaign from the i/net and stick them on her stable door!!!!  I can't bear to read about this sort of thing, as we all know its a tragedy waiting to happen.


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## Spyda (9 September 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
Goodness spyda, it gets worse and worse!!!  Makes me realise how incredibly lucky we are with our vets, but I can't believe that he missed what is an absolutely basic check after birth - I think that any stud vet would be totally horrified to hear about this bloke.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know. I know the practice she uses. It's predominantly a small animal practice. She's the only person I've known to use them for equines. There are several good equine practices reasonably close, so there really is no excuse not to be using a dedicated equine practice. But there really is no advising some people. 

I am just glad she sees me as a 'knowledgeable' person she can text questions to, so I can advise her as best I can. Problem is, she does not always _know_ when she should be texting for the advice she _should_ be getting. She lives about 25 miles from me and has her own yard, so it's not always easy for me to drop all my commitments at my end to scoot over there. I _am_ going tomorrow, though.

As for breeding, nothing is going to deter her sadly. Yesterday on the phone I went into detail about my recent visit to a horse abattoir. About the queue of lorries there; unloading animal after animal after animal. All walked straight off the ramp to their demise. I stressed that many looked bright and bonny, and many young. Nothing much wrong with many of them, except the lack of loving homes to care for them. She agreed how terrible this was _but then added that maybe she should take a visit up there to see if she could get herself some more mares._  Oh dear God


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## Rollin (9 September 2009)

Interesting post and replies.   I am such a complete wuss with my lot my vet can't even persuade me to give an antibiotic jab!!  He has to come back and do it.

So he visits asap after every foaling to check mare and foal, placenta and give tetanus jab.  I won't make any money out of breeding horses!!


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## Maggie2 (9 September 2009)

I've never known a mare eat a placenta.  Had one start nibbling it, so we whipped it away right away, but to eat a WHOLE placenta?  That is an awful lot of stuff to consume.  I'd be looking very closely at what did happen to it, and getting a second vet out anytime soon.


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## Spyda (9 September 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
I've never known a mare eat a placenta.  Had one start nibbling it, so we whipped it away right away, but to eat a WHOLE placenta?  That is an awful lot of stuff to consume.  I'd be looking very closely at what did happen to it, and getting a second vet out anytime soon. 

[/ QUOTE ]

TBH I thought that utter nonsense when she said that to me. 

I found this piece of information on the subject Paper and in it it states that only 1% of horses consume the placenta and [ QUOTE ]
Nevertheless, those few mares that do may suffer from colic if the placenta
obstructs the gastrointestinal tract, usually at the ileocecal valve. 

[/ QUOTE ] So, either way _I'd_ be concerned about where the placenta is (or went).


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## Britestar (9 September 2009)

My old Cob mare used to love having a chomp on her placenta


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## Maggie2 (9 September 2009)

A chomp is one thing but seeing the size of the average placenta I can't believe that a mare could devour the whole thing, bag and all, with no trace remaining?  I had one abort a foal and we struggled to remove it.  I thought that it had come away (vet been many times etc etc) and went through the box with a toothcomb trying to find it when there was nothing showing one time.  It had in fact slid back inside her.

I'd still be seriously worried.


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## JanetGeorge (9 September 2009)

Mmm - I've never had a mare even NIBBLE a placenta.  And I've only had one mare show colic symptoms after birth - they were severe - and not only did I call my vet immediately, I refused the on-call vet (who I had no confidence in) and DEMANDED they get MY vet.  He leapt out of bed and rushed over - and of course it wasn't colic - she'd bled into the broad ligament and would have died without prompt and expert treatment!

I suppose the only consolation in your friend's case is that with her inexperience and her vet's uselessness, she'll lose enough foals (and mares) to put her off breeding!!  I just hope not too many of them suffer too much before she gives up!

This may sound harsh - but I don't think I could stay friends with someone who was so stupid and irresponsible about breeding!


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## clair (10 September 2009)

Any news on how the mare is doing???

Has she been checked again?

One of my mares this year had retained after suprising me with her baby thought she was going to be a few days later. vet came jabbed her up oxy and anti-b's, thought she would be ok but advised a check in 48 hours time, at check she was full of puss and raging temp!! to look at her you wouldn't have known. we did pull her through ok but if left any longer this wouldn't have been the case.

Was the colic folling an Oxy jab??? One of my mares showed signs of afterwards but is a side effect of it. xx


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