# Towerlands Welsh Medal show-My worst experience ever!



## cambrica (18 March 2012)

After Ummming and Aaarghing as to write this thread or not maybe I am seeking opinions on whether its just me or is there anyone else who finds the whole Welsh Show experience as awful as it was for me. 
Firstly I must say that the organisers and the judge should be commended - no complaints there.
Maybe its just the area of the country I live in as I have always travelled to and enjoyed the Royal Welsh etc. Yesterday I took my young Sec D to a silver medal show at Bury Farm Slapton mainly for experience. Some of my moans are not anybodies fault such as having to wait till gone 5 for his class.

However, I realise that part of the excitement is to see these fantastic animals show themselves as they do whipped up by the crowd but having spent a day around, not all, but many handlers constantly whacking their horses across their faces with the whips in and out of the show ring. I appreciate that stallions and colts in particular need firm handling but so many times I didn't actually see the horse do anything wrong. One female handler was constantly striking her horse and smiling as she did it ? I cannot think of any other horse related scenario where this would be acceptable.
Then in order to really get their horses fired up you would have people following with bags on long whips scaring the hell out of them with no regard for anyone else (like me) with my youngster. It is a totally different world - more like Mad Max Thunderdome.
There were kids everywhere including my own and I don't remember hearing one conversation where every second word wasn't  F this & F that. 
Whatever money Bury Farm made will probably be eaten up in cleaning costs as the rubbish was thrown everywhere. The normally immaculate toilets were disgraceful.
Never again, I love showing my welsh but that was one of the worst experiences so from now on I will stick to local riding club shows and wait for the day I can take him into ridden classes. 
I would appreciate open-minded comments and anyone that doesn't agree with me stating their opinion.


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## Paris1 (18 March 2012)

I have never been to anything but a Lov


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## Paris1 (18 March 2012)

Sorry, local low key showing, but have heard similar tales of crowds being noisy to excite the horses. Plastic bags etc. not my scene, and not nice for Tue horses I would have thought


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## honetpot (18 March 2012)

Unfortuately the welsh crowd who do some of the WPCS seem to think this is acceptable behavior. If you stick to PUK, Equifest qualifier shows you should be OK and that where most of the sane people go.
  I'm afraid until someone gets badly hurt and theres a massive claim on their insurance the WPCS seems not to want to stamp out the hooligan element.


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## amandap (18 March 2012)

The handling sounds very reminiscent of the foreign D) Arab showing that caused a stir on here last year.


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## cambrica (18 March 2012)

I didn't see the arab thread but I cannot believe that there is not more of an uproar about it happening in this country. Some of these horses were really struck hard for no reason. Maybe the men are trying to prove their masculinity owning these stallions and dominating them while the women are trying to prove they have bigger b*lls than the men. Stallions/colts being wound up in areas with kids running everywhere, yes sooner or later the WPCS will have no chioce but to act.


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## wildflower (18 March 2012)

I don,t understand that type of behaviour either...and I would have felt just as uncomfortable as you did.I,m on a native chat board and alot of members on there would feel the same as you.They complain alot about the plastic bag brigade , so your definitely not alone.I posted a thread yesterday about going to a show and seeing teenagers whacking their ponies during a jumping round(ponies were refusing jumps due to the riders bad riding)...I felt really sick to the stomach and angry ..not a jumping circuit I would want my daughter involved in.


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## Hedgewitch13 (18 March 2012)

Unfortunately you will always get idiots in the horse world who think they are big, clever and look cool with an uncontrollable horse on the end of a rein. Try and forget your horrible experience, hopefully your youngster already has, and look forward to some properly run shows. Good luck!


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## frozzy (18 March 2012)

This is commonplace in some parts of the country (but completely unacceptable)_the more fired  up the cob the more knee action.
We dont do it with our cobs in Scotland, but whoever is waiting for action by the WPCS will wait a long time.! A more insipid shower you will never meet completely incapable of policing themselves (or their members)!


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## itsonlyme (18 March 2012)

I remember watching a Welsh D class at the Cheshire Show. There was a man with an insane stallion who had boxed him on the head, rearing up on him just prior to the class! Then to hype him up for his trot-up, some woman ran along-side, scraping an umbrella on the railings so it made a loud noise. Then she opened & closed it really fast loads of times.  Proper scared loads of horses, but they dont care because a scared horse "looks pretty"! Im quite happy with my sensible donkey-looking horses thank u. Stupid people.


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## Piglet (18 March 2012)

Totally agree with the idiots who bang the hoarding and rails to get the Sec Ds trot up, see it every time at Royal Cornwall Show, they also do it with the Arabs.  A large class of big SecD and Arab stallions all rearing up waving their front legs would give a Health and Safety Exec a heart attack!!  In my mind it's an accident waiting to happen, one year in the ring next door was mare and foal and when they started to bang the rails, the foals were so stressed one of them threw itself on the floor and was shaking with fear


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## Sarajane (18 March 2012)

My Section D stallion was being given away fee to a good home, the stated reason being that the owner didn't have time for him, he wasn't the sort of horse that a Spanish person would normally buy and the owner would prefer he went to a good home than pay for him to be transported back to the UK, where the owner's father breeds cobs and hackneys for showing and driving. I have no knowledge of their methods and I know that Section Ds are notoriously spooky, all I will say is that after three years of patience I have a lively chilled out chap who even now hates quick sudden movements around his head and neck. When I read posts like this I do wonder what was done to him in the past


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## cambrica (18 March 2012)

frozzy said:



			This is commonplace in some parts of the country (but completely unacceptable)_the more fired  up the cob the more knee action.
We dont do it with our cobs in Scotland, but whoever is waiting for action by the WPCS will wait a long time.! A more insipid shower you will never meet completely incapable of policing themselves (or their members)!
		
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Sadly that is the case. Judging should be based on Type, Conformation then movement but all too often its the movement thats rewarded. Also from what I've seen no action whatsoever has been adhered to regarding the overfeeding issue raised at the last WPCS/Judges seminar, so basically if your not prepared to bulk up your youngster you don't stand a chance. Rather keep mine trim and suitable as a ridden prospect knowing I can find a saddle to fit!


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## Tiggy1 (18 March 2012)

This maybe explains why my section a gets totally stressed out showing and is petrified of sudden movements near his head / ears!!


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## Crazy_cat_lady (18 March 2012)

I also have a Welsh D on loan (owner got him from a dealer) and he arrived v headshy especially when trying to groom his face.

I am now able to mostly brush the underside of his face with a small face brush but he wont let you touch his ears or brush his forelock etc and hates sudden movements round his face..

V interesting post and makes me wonder if something like this may have happened to him.


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## maisie06 (18 March 2012)

I agree with everything you say - I don't show welsh anymore because of this, there is a real Chav element to showing welshies these days, in fact welsh C and D classes were removed from the Surrey county show because of what you describe.
IMHO if a welshie will not show it's self off without being chased with all manner of things then it's place isn't in the show ring. It's no wonder these animals are getting a bad name.
And don't even get me started on the way the youngstock are soo fat and this is positively encouraged.


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## trottingon (18 March 2012)

This is my main bugbear when I show my Section A!  It drives me mad. My 5yo thinks he should act the same and as the D and A rings are usually next to each other it can make for a very difficult show.  I've often thought of complaining but as it is people outside of the show ring I don't know quite what they can do about it if it diesnt involve competitors (cleary it is competitors' families and friends but societies cannot afford to police these situations with stewards or indeed eject or ban people from showgrounds as they may lose the entry fees the following year, so I dOnt fancy wasting the £30 or £50 or whatever it is to lodge a complaint these days. It is just a dangerous practice which has gone on for years and will not change until someone is seriously hurt. By the way j hope the Section D I saw at the Royal Welsh get kicked by a wound up D in the ring and hobble out on  3 legs is okay?


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## amandap (18 March 2012)

cambrica said:



			I didn't see the arab thread but I cannot believe that there is not more of an uproar about it happening in this country. Some of these horses were really struck hard for no reason. Maybe the men are trying to prove their masculinity owning these stallions and dominating them while the women are trying to prove they have bigger b*lls than the men. Stallions/colts being wound up in areas with kids running everywhere, yes sooner or later the WPCS will have no chioce but to act.
		
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Here's the thread. It was more shanking than hitting but the same effect. 
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=487898&highlight=arab+disgrace

Crowds whipping the horses up seems fairly common place in various showing scenes around the world.


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## cambrica (18 March 2012)

It sounds like a pattern emerging here with your posts and head shyness. I can honestly see why these horses would have problems. We spend so much time desensitising and here we have the total opposite not just with plastic bags but bottles with stones in, football clackers, you name it.


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## Suffolkangel (18 March 2012)

maisie06 said:



			And don't even get me started on the way the youngstock are soo fat and this is positively encouraged.
		
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I have found this.  I showed my 3 year old Sec C last year and she is the correct size and hight for her age.  (She was about 12.3.)  At both the suffolk and south suffolk the judges told me she was very small for her age.  Considering a Sec C shouldnt be over 13.2 I believe she was about the right height, the problem I found was the youngsters i was competing against were both over weight and over height.  Being full height at 2 years old would surely make them a Sec D not a C?

Here's a pic of my "undersize" Sec C as a 3 year old....


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## cambrica (18 March 2012)

Suffolkangel said:



			I have found this.  I showed my 3 year old Sec C last year and she is the correct size and hight for her age.  (She was about 12.3.)  At both the suffolk and south suffolk the judges told me she was very small for her age.  Considering a Sec C shouldnt be over 13.2 I believe she was about the right height, the problem I found was the youngsters i was competing against were both over weight and over height.  Being full height at 2 years old would surely make them a Sec D not a C?

Here's a pic of my "undersize" Sec C as a 3 year old....






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I couldn't agree more. Ive seen sec c colts looking more like sherman tanks than a pony, to a point that they cant even walk properly and then go on to get a red rosette. In both the classes i've been in the judges have said that I need to put weight on him and not just a small amount. 
As for the chav element - crikey they could of had a katie price lookalike contest - to a point where I thought one girl was a drag queen 
In all seriousness anything the WPCA states is simply ignored by judges.
1/ Overfed horses should be marked down. 2/ Any outside interference should result in the horse/handler being eliminated. I can't find anything on the cruelty aspect but I looked up a female handler from a previous show to find that she has an extremely highly regarded stud farm producing top class ponies yet she was another one constantly cracking the whip on her cobs face.


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## maisieblu (19 March 2012)

I wholeheartedly agree with the tread starter, and Im pleased to say by no means are all Welsh fans anywhere near as you have described. No way would I want one of their inhand winners as a ridden horse.


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## Fransurrey (19 March 2012)

This makes something I saw last year make sense! I think it was at the South of England show and I was next to the holding area before some Welsh Section As/Bs went in (can't remember, but def Welsh). There was a woman in there who kept randomly whacking her pony, who was just standing still. I remarked loudly that I was going to stick that crop where the sun didn't shine and the lady next to me wholeheartedly agreed. The witch in the holding area either didn't hear or chose to ignore. It didn't occur to me that they were 'winding them up' for the show!


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## MagicMelon (19 March 2012)

I've never seen proper Welshie showing (assume I need to go further down south for that), up here we're all pretty sane (and I did show my Welsh D ridden and in-hand for several years and never once had this problem you've mentioned, if anything we all tried to keep ours calm).  I did watch on YouTube the Welsh D in-hand showing at the Royal Welsh and wow I was pretty shocked.  Could see them all lining up at the entrance and kicking out all over the place and so riled up it was unbelievable.  I know D's are meant to be quite "flashy" but they can be naturally like that without all the scaring them rubbish.


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## cambrica (19 March 2012)

Fransurrey said:



			This makes something I saw last year make sense! I think it was at the South of England show and I was next to the holding area before some Welsh Section As/Bs went in (can't remember, but def Welsh). There was a woman in there who kept randomly whacking her pony, who was just standing still. I remarked loudly that I was going to stick that crop where the sun didn't shine and the lady next to me wholeheartedly agreed. The witch in the holding area either didn't hear or chose to ignore. It didn't occur to me that they were 'winding them up' for the show!
		
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Im so glad its not just me. Now two days on Im still reeling about it 
To get to the indoor arena's the cobs had to be walked up past the restaurant through a narrow walkway. This trollop of a woman was behind a chap leading a sec c colt scaring the hell out of it with a bag. The colt was all over the place whilst kids were running around and two toddlers in buggies. This then caused another to jump about hitting his handlers head on a wooden shed so this horse then got struck hard across its face. Following that when I was trying to get my youngster in through the tunnel this halfwit was doing the exact same thing behind a cob with a female handler shouting "get that F...ing B*st*rd horse moving.. well that wasn't all but you get the picture as he didn't stop the whole time she was in the ring. He was totally oblivious to me trying to get past. 
I have just seen the arab thread posted earlier regarding the arab shanking. Its about time both the WPCS and Arabian society put a stop to this once and for all. I am absolutely disgusted by it.


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## Ollie's Mum (19 March 2012)

I'm probably being naive but why is this going on? I can't believe that there haven't been accidents at shows as a result of such behaviour and aren't there ever any animal welfare people around to see horses being treated this way or complaints made to show organisers?


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## Pearlsasinger (19 March 2012)

trottingon said:



			This is my main bugbear when I show my Section A!  It drives me mad. My 5yo thinks he should act the same and as the D and A rings are usually next to each other it can make for a very difficult show.  I've often thought of complaining but as it is people outside of the show ring I don't know quite what they can do about it if it diesnt involve competitors (cleary it is competitors' families and friends but societies cannot afford to police these situations with stewards or indeed eject or ban people from showgrounds as they may lose the entry fees the following year, so I dOnt fancy wasting the £30 or £50 or whatever it is to lodge a complaint these days. It is just a dangerous practice which has gone on for years and will not change until someone is seriously hurt. By the way j hope the Section D I saw at the Royal Welsh get kicked by a wound up D in the ring and hobble out on  3 legs is okay?
		
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You don't need to pay to write to the Show Secretary to explain your unease at the dangerous practices you see on the showground, or to ask if they are fully insured against injury to spectators caused by hyped-up horses.  The fee is only payable if you are asking for some kind of investigation into placings etc.
If no-one complains to the Secretaries, they will think that every-one thinks that what is happening is acceptable.  Which it certainly isn't.


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## cambrica (19 March 2012)

I certainly intend on writing to WPCS once I get my literate mind in gear for what good it would do. Sadly I was one of a minority of sane people it seems although I have spoken others who were just as appalled. I've shown for many years and had horses 40+ years. Just never knew this went on.


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## Ceris Comet (20 March 2012)

My farrier used to regale me with horrid things he had seen in his travels, including Arabs and Secton D'S having ginger stuffed up their bums to make them tail high and hyper.


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## dRats (20 March 2012)

yup, 'gingering-up' still goes on......saw it with my own eyes, done by well known showing family of the breeds under discussion......GRRR!


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## fatpiggy (20 March 2012)

I heard about it going on in area level showing years ago.  I think it may have started with the arab classes and then spread like some horrible disease.  Unfortunately I suspect it is a combination of lowered standards in the horse world and dumbing down of so-called entertainment generally.  Think X Factor and BGT and you can see something rather similar.


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## spottybotty (20 March 2012)

Have you never heard the term "Yobs with Cobs" ?  thats exactly what a lot of the Welshy handlers are. I watched an 11yr old girl repeatedly hit a yearling Sec A around the head at a show 2yrs ago, she was copying her parents. I never attended that show again.


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## cambrica (20 March 2012)

This is heartbreaking. Never heard of 'gingering up' - who on earth could do that? X factor is spot on. I had to run round with The Who playing at full volume, it is pathetic. The worst thing for me is that I put my youngster through this, a horse that is so honest and trusts everything I do with him- makes me feel so guilty. Live and learn I guess but as for the rest of these poor animals I think it will take a power far mightier than just me to rid this black cloud over these magnificent welsh ponies. WPCS for gods sake wake up.


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## sidewaysonacob (20 March 2012)

Suddenly all the inhand horses up on their back legs in the collecting ring at my first Big Show last year makes a lot more sense...

...the same handlers were also fairly bitchy when my friend had to lead me round mounted for 20 mins til my cob calmed down from all the sensory overload <sigh>


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## pec (21 March 2012)

I find it a little worying that eveybody seems to blame WPCS, they are indeed the governing body but do not run these shows.  If you look at the showing rules most of these practices are banned.  Surely it is the responsibiliy of the organisation that is hosting the show to ensure that the rules are adhered to.  I have shown at many medal shows throughout West and South Wales and have never witnessed any horse being struck accross the face with a whip, and fail to see what the perpetrator would seem to achieve by doing so.  The rules are there it is up to the judge and the stewards to ensure they are adhered to.
On the other hand I have witnessed spectators in the horse lines with prams, infants and dogs on leads while I am tring to lead a section D stallion or colt down to the ring.  While I do appreciate a little bit of spark in the horses I am showing they often take exception to this, then I simply get filthy looks from these spectators like I am somehow in the wrong.


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## cambrica (21 March 2012)

pec said:



			I find it a little worying that eveybody seems to blame WPCS, they are indeed the governing body but do not run these shows.  If you look at the showing rules most of these practices are banned.  Surely it is the responsibiliy of the organisation that is hosting the show to ensure that the rules are adhered to.  I have shown at many medal shows throughout West and South Wales and have never witnessed any horse being struck accross the face with a whip, and fail to see what the perpetrator would seem to achieve by doing so.  The rules are there it is up to the judge and the stewards to ensure they are adhered to.
On the other hand I have witnessed spectators in the horse lines with prams, infants and dogs on leads while I am tring to lead a section D stallion or colt down to the ring.  While I do appreciate a little bit of spark in the horses I am showing they often take exception to this, then I simply get filthy looks from these spectators like I am somehow in the wrong.
		
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I am actually in agreement with you on most of what you are saying. There are areas of the country that do not have this element of yobbishness. Another poster has said that it simply is not like this in Scotland. I have been to the Royal Welsh and thoroughly enjoyed myself to a point that I was so looking forward to taking part in Welsh Medal shows. Having bought my youngster from a stud in Wales I can honestly say that I could not hold more respect and admiration for the way their horses are produced and the proof of that is in my boy's outstanding character and calm, kind nature. 
However, the judges are appointed by the WPCS and any medal show is under their umbrella. I have not seen one single horse marked down for obesity, nobody eliminated for over the top crowd interaction so is that down to the judges or the WPCS as its their appointed judges that are turning a blind eye. The whole safety aspect is 6 of one & 1/2 dozen of the other. Kids running everwhere with no parent/guardian in site combined with colts/stallions/fillies terrified by whips, bags, rattles etc. You would only ever get an admiring look from me if your stallion was simply excited and lively, unfortunatley though this was not the case here.
All I know is that was one of my life ambitions and I feel totally gutted by it.


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## icy (23 March 2012)

I intitially wrote a long account of what i saw at the show in question good and bad points ! but sadly internet keeps going down , so i will hopefully just be able to add an unbiased opinion and my own feelings that i personnaly feel this thread is an over exagerated  and not a true account of the show which had endless lovely owners, handlers and exhibitors which truly did not deserve this !










 these are just 2 random photos out of over 600 picturs i took that day !! hardly look like un-loved, beaten, terrified horses


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## ZAULTAG (23 March 2012)

icy said:



			I intitially wrote a long account of what i saw at the show in question good and bad points ! but sadly internet keeps going down , so i will hopefully just be able to add an unbiased opinion and my own feelings that i personnaly feel this thread is an over exagerated  and not a true account of the show which had endless lovely owners, handlers and exhibitors which truly did not deserve this !










 these are just 2 random photos out of over 600 picturs i took that day !! hardly look like un-loved, beaten, terrified horses
		
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Agreed with above. I also have a lot of pictures of the day and i certainly didnt see anyone hitting horses in the face with whips.  

Out of interest are you the lady with the bay colt cambrica?

Also, did you stay for the whole day and watch all the classes from 9am?


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## cambrica (23 March 2012)

Icy & Zaultag. 
I wasn't there all day but from 12.30 - 6ish so missed the A's B's and part-bred.
It is certainly the C & D element that I'm concerned with. I too could have taken  100's of photos of horses in the ring looking superb with kind handlers. I have to say that in many cases this was certainly the case. I am not tarring everybody with the same brush here as I know that there are many kind owners that adore their horses. 
However, what went on outside of the ring and on the sidelines was a different story completely as there most certainly were a large number of handlers and accomplices who were doing exactly what I described in previous posts. That is in no way over-exaggerated to a point I would swear on my horses lives! 
Never before have I posted anything nasty or inaccurate about anyone, thats not my character but as I've said I found the whole experience pretty awful.
I have also received personal messages from people who were there agreeing with me.
I had a bay gelding, not colt, yes the one who laughably got down to roll when we were leaving the ring and it was my mum who stood in the tunnel next to the man hurling unrepeatable abuse at his horse with his bag on a whip.


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## HappyHorses:) (23 March 2012)

ZAULTAG said:



			Agreed with above. I also have a lot of pictures of the day and i certainly didnt see anyone hitting horses in the face with whips.  

Out of interest are you the lady with the bay colt cambrica?

Also, did you stay for the whole day and watch all the classes from 9am?
		
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Which bay colt? If it was the section D three year old then that was me. My fella went nuts at the crowd and all the noise but I tried to keep him calm in the ring as it is all experiance and have not said a word about the show publicly. Mine was a great example of how D's can have alot of spirit without the plastic bags and rattles.

I now know that Towerlands had an atmosphear unlike most shows and it didn't suit my horse. He is kept out 24-7 and only been shown a few times so all a bit much for him that time but being local I wanted to support a welsh show. I actually e-mailed the organizers to say thank you as I thought the show was well run so no, I am not the one who complained on this thread.


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## Cop-Pop (23 March 2012)

When I was competing my pony in hand I let my WPCS membership lapse as I couldnt stand the medal shows.  The 'regulars' were awful - not just in handling but in the way they would try and buy the judges.  More than one stud would regularly say it was their youngsters first show - how many first shows can a pony have?   When I started showing my horse it was a refreshing change!


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## Honey08 (23 March 2012)

icy said:



			I intitially wrote a long account of what i saw at the show in question good and bad points ! but sadly internet keeps going down , so i will hopefully just be able to add an unbiased opinion and my own feelings that i personnaly feel this thread is an over exagerated  and not a true account of the show which had endless lovely owners, handlers and exhibitors which truly did not deserve this !










 these are just 2 random photos out of over 600 picturs i took that day !! hardly look like un-loved, beaten, terrified horses
		
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I actually think that that second picture doesn't look that nice - the bloke is holding his head up,not stroking him, his expressions is saying "you WILL do this, and there is a whip poking out from under his arm ready to tickle.  I'm not saying it looks a bad picture, but if you're using it as a counter to the nasty scenes painted in this thread then its not all that!

Showing is not for me at all.


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## HappyHorses:) (23 March 2012)

For anyone who was at Towerlands and saw my naughty pony showing his airs above the ground (section d 3yo colts) this is how be behaved as shows last year 









I just want to add that there were some lovely people at the show. There are always going to be people who behave like plums, happens at all shows not just the welsh shows.


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## ponypilotmum (23 March 2012)

HappyHorses:) said:



			For anyone who was at Towerlands and saw my naughty pony showing his airs above the ground (section d 3yo colts) this is how be behaved as shows last year 









I just want to add that there were some lovely people at the show. There are always going to be people who behave like plums, happens at all shows not just the welsh shows.
		
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All credit to you, he's a beauty. 

I've not attended one wpcs show, but have seen this behaviour at county, PUK, and bsps shows. Usually in the lorry parks. 
I used to regularly see a gentleman showing a stud's welshies - recogniseable for the garish trousers he wore - and witnessed those welshies being smacked round the croup with whips and jollied along with plastic bags. The guy, no matter which animal he entered, won every time. 

He used to stand by the ring after (bsps shows) and have a good long chat with the judge about how family was. 

That's showing for you I'm afraid.


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## icy (23 March 2012)

HappyHorses:) said:



			For anyone who was at Towerlands and saw my naughty pony showing his airs above the ground (section d 3yo colts) this is how be behaved as shows last year 









I just want to add that there were some lovely people at the show. There are always going to be people who behave like plums, happens at all shows not just the welsh shows.
		
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100% right all shows all disciplines ! not just welshies ! good luck to you


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## icy (23 March 2012)

Honey08 said:



			I actually think that that second picture doesn't look that nice - the bloke is holding his head up,not stroking him, his expressions is saying "you WILL do this, and there is a whip poking out from under his arm ready to tickle.  I'm not saying it looks a bad picture, but if you're using it as a counter to the nasty scenes painted in this thread then its not all that!

Showing is not for me at all.
		
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Honey 08 your observation couldnt be furthur from the truth !!! this filly put her own head on her owners shoulder everyone was laughing hence i took the pictures !! you are welcome to look at the others i can asure you the handler was not holding her head up !! (why would you they are pretty heavy ???) he was kissing her back, and i personnaly know this handler and i dont care how much of a dedicated horse lover you are, you could never be more kind or patient than this man who i will add is a known farrier that can win the heart of many a nervy youngster or horse, and just to add if thats your meanest form of cruelty you can find with this picture then your very blinkered to life ! i suppose the other photo the lady is strangling her horse !!!!! as i put on other post ~ do you ride ??? if so i pity your horse having to carry your heavy halo !! im asuming you have also never ever carried a whip ??


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## Yoda (23 March 2012)

I went to towerlands on Saturday and I have to say some of the posts on here regarding us "cob yobs" are highly entertaining. This was the 1st year that the show was at this venue so there were bound to be teething problems but no where near the scale that has been posted on here. Children were running wild but twice to my knowledge did show organisers tell the children to calm down but the parents are to blame. Why take your kid to a show and then let them go crazy?? Regards carrier bags, I only saw 1 person with 1 and the steward saw what was happening and asked him to stop. What more can a show do? Going to towerlands as your 1st welsh show was a mistake on your part, it's a silver medal show with a high calibre of ponies/cobs. It's like entering your ridden pony in a hoys qualifier as its first show!


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## ponypilotmum (23 March 2012)

Yoda said:



			I went to towerlands on Saturday and I have to say some of the posts on here regarding us "cob yobs" are highly entertaining. This was the 1st year that the show was at this venue so there were bound to be teething problems but no where near the scale that has been posted on here. Children were running wild but twice to my knowledge did show organisers tell the children to calm down but the parents are to blame. Why take your kid to a show and then let them go crazy?? Regards carrier bags, I only saw 1 person with 1 and the steward saw what was happening and asked him to stop. What more can a show do? Going to towerlands as your 1st welsh show was a mistake on your part, it's a silver medal show with a high calibre of ponies/cobs. It's like entering your ridden pony in a hoys qualifier as its first show!
		
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even at hoys you expect at certain standard of competitor, who know how to behave themselves.


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## Yoda (23 March 2012)

The standard and behaviour of the competitors was fine, but local riding schools way of showing and breed shows way of showing ARE completely different.


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## ponypilotmum (23 March 2012)

Yoda said:



			The standard and behaviour of the competitors was fine, but local riding schools way of showing and breed shows way of showing ARE completely different.
		
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I know. I used to work on a stud showing natives up to UK level 

For what it's worth, we could have something unhandled the week before a qualifier, basic handling, have it on the lorry, at the show, in the ring, and qualified. At BSPS / PUK  a month later in the ribbons. No plastic bags, no whips. I couldn't take credit for that myself, but my boss was (is) some horsewoman who knew how to show a colt / stallion and the inhand and ridden success of her stock speaks for itself. 

Different breed shows too  The breed shows are such fun, because it's so friendly and relaxed.


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## trottingon (23 March 2012)

Well I've been to plenty of welsh medal shows over the last 5 years and although I haven't seen an increase in face-hitting/nasty handling from any other type of show, I have seen plenty, and by that I mean lots, of outside assistance and deliberate winding up of in-hand animals, mainly section Ds!  I show in the north west and midlands mainly. The organising committees where this goes on really need to open their eyes and stop it happening. Some is completely obvious, rattling coins in jars and bottles as their horse goes past in the ring, others are more subtle, one lady buzzed like a bee when her horse went past and moved around to different vantage points to do more of the same during the classes -not that you could do anything about her, and to be fair at least she wasn't winding up all the other horses so much. 
I'm getting over an injury so will not be doing any WPCS shows this year because I know I'll struggle to hold into my monster when he's so wound up, so I'll be doing other shows where it's less likely to happen. By the way it's not just welsh shows, Cheshire county is horrendous for it as are some other county shows.


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## HappyHorses:) (23 March 2012)

Yoda said:



			Going to towerlands as your 1st welsh show was a mistake on your part, it's a silver medal show with a high calibre of ponies/cobs. It's like entering your ridden pony in a hoys qualifier as its first show!
		
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Who said it had been their first welsh show? I can't speak for the poster who started this thread but I've been to the HCWPCA shows before and belive me the noise was nothing like it was at the show on Saturday. Refering to others as showing like 'local riding school' is uncalled for and kinda bitchy. Speak to the organizers about people getting qulified if it offends you that much. If your trying to change the minds of people on this thread of how welsh showing people are your failing. Manners cost nothing.

Lucky-lady, thank you for the comment on my horse, he was never placed lower than 3rd at his shows last year and they weren't even riding school shows!

Honey08- I can second that the guy in that picture is a gentleman as he bred my youngest horse and really is a lovely kind man. You really were wrong in your comment about that picture.

Last word from me as this thread has kinda got to me. We are all there because we love our welshies, so what if some are never going to be royal welsh winners! Everyone can learn from competing with people who have been there and worn the t-shirt. I've learnt that my pony looks so much better all trimmed up (I bit the bullet and finally did it) as I was inspired seeing the others instead of having it natural as I had it last year. You can bet that the next time he's out showing the judge will tell me off for trimming 

Anyhoo hasn't put me off showing so if my pony or myself offend anyone by being at a show I really couldn't give a flying figaroo!


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## icy (23 March 2012)

I feel for you trottingon and wish you a very speedy recovery, and i do agree that at many shows there is a lot of outside assistance in many different ways, but i feel we are missing the point of the thread here it was regarding Towerlands show and the apparent disgrace of it ! i felt the need to defend the  exhibitors ,owners and handlers which were tarred with the same brush as perhaps a couple of individuals (that i never personaly witnessed if i had i would have acted if i had !) that every show sadly gets , the show was not as described as basically a hooligans day out ! and for silly posts saying a photo posted of a filly with her head happily on her handlers shoulder was being held and forced is just ridiculous it was posted to show the people that didnt attend the show a clearer view of how most realy adore their horses, surely anyone with the slightest insight can see this ! my post wasnt to slag people off but to purely give what i believe to be a true account x  yes issues need addressing regarding children and rubbish in particular, but to sit back and apparently watch horses being whipped in the face or any part of the body makes the onlooker as bad for not bringing such disgusting behaviour to the attention of the organisers at the time. but like others i have said my thoughts and will let others make their own decisions x


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## Yoda (23 March 2012)

Happyhorses, my post was aimed at the person who started this thread. She stated she took her pony for experience but she will now stick to her local riding club shows so why so much aggression? 

Yes towerlands isn't for everyone but I personally love it and I get frustrated when we all get tarred with pony bashing, bag waving idiots! Yes there are a minority at ALL shows that go too far but the majority of us love our ponies and love taking them to shows to show them off.


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## Honey08 (23 March 2012)

icy said:



			Honey 08 your observation couldnt be furthur from the truth !!! this filly put her own head on her owners shoulder everyone was laughing hence i took the pictures !! you are welcome to look at the others i can asure you the handler was not holding her head up !! (why would you they are pretty heavy ???) he was kissing her back, and i personnaly know this handler and i dont care how much of a dedicated horse lover you are, you could never be more kind or patient than this man who i will add is a known farrier that can win the heart of many a nervy youngster or horse, and just to add if thats your meanest form of cruelty you can find with this picture then your very blinkered to life ! i suppose the other photo the lady is strangling her horse !!!!! as i put on other post ~ do you ride ??? if so i pity your horse having to carry your heavy halo !! im asuming you have also never ever carried a whip ??
		
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Oh for goodness sake!  All I was trying to say is that that particular picture wasn't, IN MY OPINION, a picture of calm.  I was saying that if that is the nicest picture you can find, it isn't that good - with the whip stuck in the chest...  I never said it was a picture of the abuse described by many others in this thread.

If you had calmly explained that the horse had put its head on his shoulder etc it would have put your point across much more effectively than going on about halos and riding experience etc - that just makes it a bit childish!



Good - glad you all know him and that he is lovely with horses etc. Fair enough.  I was just saying what that picture portrayed to me..  It just shows that a photo can show two different viewpoints to different people...


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## HappyHorses:) (23 March 2012)

Yoda- no aggression from me honest! I think I took your post as a bit rude and having had a pants day I jumped on it, I can't stand tension so truce please? 

Like I said we all love our welshies and there is good n bad everywhere in the horse world. No one is perfect and everyone will have off days.


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## cambrica (23 March 2012)

Yoda said:



			I went to towerlands on Saturday and I have to say some of the posts on here regarding us "cob yobs" are highly entertaining. This was the 1st year that the show was at this venue so there were bound to be teething problems but no where near the scale that has been posted on here. Children were running wild but twice to my knowledge did show organisers tell the children to calm down but the parents are to blame. Why take your kid to a show and then let them go crazy?? Regards carrier bags, I only saw 1 person with 1 and the steward saw what was happening and asked him to stop. What more can a show do? Going to towerlands as your 1st welsh show was a mistake on your part, it's a silver medal show with a high calibre of ponies/cobs. It's like entering your ridden pony in a hoys qualifier as its first show!
		
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Im sorry but that sounds patronisingly arrogant. I have 30+ years experience of breeding, schooling, breaking, show jumping, x/c, inhand and ridden showing. The medal shows are new to me but certainly not beyond my capabilities as a handler and my youngster is from one of the worlds top welsh stud farms. I entered the HCWPCA show at Bury farm and enjoyed the experience and the people I met I found most helpful. Many of which were probably also at the Towerlands show - I don't know. Except of course the one girl I did see there striking her horse whilst in the ring. I don't ever recall entering at a 'riding school show'!
When we first arrived at T/lands my mum, O/H and friend went off to get drinks. My mum came back clearly upset by an act of cruelty she witnessed, I tried to play it down saying perhaps it was just firm handling?? 
It was when I sat outside the restaurant watching in particular the sec c colts come past - well I refer to a previous post I made on this incident. This was not an isolated incident. Many (not all) cobs are deliberately wound up then punished for being wound up - fact !
In all my years of competing I have never witnessed such blatent acts and firmly stick to my guns on this. For me it was very much a case of 'eyes wide open'. 
I found the organisers extremely helpful, the judge extremely polite and the steward extremely professional. How are 'some' of these people expected to look after their horses when they can't even look after their kids ? 
I realise that the Medal shows are very much a who's who - everybody knows everybody else which is why I'm suprised that I have not had hundreds of posters wanting to shoot me down - being an 'outsider'. 

BTW HappyHorses I do love your boy.


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## markettrader (23 March 2012)

I have sat and read this thread numerous times over and over again today, to say I am astonished by all the jobsworths who have their opinion about how Welsh Section C's & D's should look and shouldn't look....  Jealousy comes to mind, I remember Cambrica's horse in the ring...  Firstly it was quite clear that you couldn't control your horse maybe you need to enforce a bit of dicipline, Secondly a horse should be able to get it's head in the manger maybe try lowering it so your horse can actually eat!  You expressed your views on "Yobs with Cobs".  All because people with cobs express their appreciation of a GOOD COB in the ring (sorry if we didn't appreciate yours).  You mentioned that you purchased from a good stud in Wales, let me let you into a little secret, when Studs sense that someone with little knowledge wants to come and buy from them, they scrape the bottom of the barrel to sell you the horses that they wouldn't even register if it weren't for the whole micro chipping situation.  When you visited the Royal Welsh you mentioned that you never saw a carrier bag, or a bottle with stones in I find this to be very untrue as 99% of competitors use either one so next time you visit actually observe what is going on around you then maybe you might see the lovely stud you purchased from actually using one of the above to hype their horses up, then you might not be so dissapproving of Yobs With Cobs!!  If you was to visit majority of Studs and visited their fields you would only have to show their horses a carrier bag then you will see that the horses are not frightened or treated cruelly, they stick their tail up and show off, does this sound like a frightened horse because maybe I am wrong (which i doubt) but does a horse flag, prick their ears and show off if they are frightened, ain't it the other way round they generally have their ears flat back and their tail clamped down.    Please any of you's prim and proper horse owners correct me if I am wrong!!...   Regarding the TROLLOP who was seen shaking a whip with a bag on round the children, firstly I think it is highly disrespectful to call someone that who you don't know (maybe you would of got a peice of her mind if you actually told her that on the day hence the reason why you had to air your views on here) Secondly you expressed your views on children running around near the horses, I have read my schedule from that show 3 times and for the life of me I cannot see where it states - Towerlands Welsh Medal Show & Children's Creche.  It is a horse show not a childrens play area so if your children or any other peoples were running around near the horses that says more about the parenting than it actally does about the horse handlers.  I was not competing at the show this year but had a wonderful time, so for you to state that the handlers beat their horses and treated them in a horrid manner i find this hilarious, I have never read such rubbish.  Basically what you and other users on here are saying is that the horses were treated horribly, too fat, scared with bags and bottles etc - you should have opened your eyes and your ears when a horse came in the ring with it's tail up, giving a good show, looked immaculate and in top show condition where was it placed and how were the crowd buzzing , where was your horse standing? and did you get the crowds appreciation Eerm I don't beleive so NO.  As for you commending the organisers and the Judges this was the most fictional part I think you wrote becasue I heard with my own ears the show organiser saying outside the ring when the Section D Stallions were in that there was a lovely atmosphere.  Also the Section D Judge just before the Section D Stallions were about to come in when the music started he was dancing in the ring clapping getting the audience involved enhancing the atmosphere I personally found this amusing and involving as so did most of the crowd, I bet you were one of the spectators who was sitting in the stand not even smiling like you were at a funeral, this says more about you than it does everyone else.  In future I advise all you jobsworths and jealous people to stick to your local shows and leave the WPCA medal shows to those who are more suited unless you can attend without starting World War 3.  As for the person who complained about showing to The Who playing, Towerlands as always had music on during their classes ever since I can remember being  little and going.  Towerlands used to be the first show of the season and was always the one that you got hyped up for mainly becasue of the atmosphere it generated.  Everybody had their concerns with Bury Farm because of the area it is situated, becasue it was going to attract people who have got plums stuck in their mouth giving their very little knowledge and opinions to people who to be quite frank couldn't care less about your opinions as they mean very little.  Regarding the pictures that were posted these clearly show the affection between the horses and their owners so whoever said that the bottom one was cruel then you really need to keep your opinions to yourself because this man is a farrier and dotes on his animals just like the rest of us, just because some use whips and bags does not mean that they are treated badly.  A question for all you's who had an opinion... From my assumptions most of you have ridden horses aswell yes? when you break them do you never use a whip when schooling or use spurs when your horse is not going forward, you can tell everyone on here that you don't but when push comes to shove and your horse ain't going forward  bet the whips and spurs come out in full force to hell with what ever you broadcast on here, I bet your horse don't get a stroke and a polo then, so you's carry on lying to yourselves but beleive me behind closed doors I am not far from the truth am I.  As for criticising someones appearence I know exactly who you are slagging off all becasue they take pride in their appearence does not mean they are a bad person, we all can't look like Riff-Raff, to be honest some people looked like they needed 24 hours soak in the bath i don't see you criticising them or is that becasue the girls who made an effort made you feel a little insecure with yourselves!!.  With regards to the well known family using ginger, if you knew where to get it you would use it aswell, knowledge jealousy is the worst kind because you think you are very knowledgeable but in the end you's are just a riding school graduates.  The above is not just aimed at Cambrica it is aimed at everyone who put their two pennies worth in where it wasn't wanted or needed.   Cambrica you started this thread and to be honest you should have kept your opinions to yourself but no you came on here aired your views and got everyone on the band wagon so any attitude and dissapprovement you or any of the others get is completely expected, in future think before you start a thread slagging people and their horses off because you will get it back 10 times worse from all angles.  I agree there is good and bad in all horsey people but this thread gives people who have welsh horses a bad name and is dissrespectful to the good.  In my opinion people should keep their opinions to themself but becasue you all jumped on the band wagon about Welsh horse owners, you have got to have it i am afraid.  Sometimes people are good at airing what they beleive to be the truth all over the internet but are they big enough to take some back without chucking their toys out their pram.


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## SO1 (23 March 2012)

I don't show welshes but I do think the those who do have a terrible reputation especially the in hand ones for firing up their horses to the point where they look like they are coiled springs about to explode. I wonder why they do have this reputation where as other breeds apart from the arabs (again a breed where being fiery is encouraged by judges) if none of the things reports happen. I know not all those who shows welshes use the same techniques but is it really necessary to have to use plastic bags/stones in bottles/banging railing and encouraging people to show horses that are so fired up they are only just containable. There are always a lot rumours about how these horses are treated - including being kept in dark stables without turnout to make them more fiesty in the ring. 

Additionally their attitude towards other competitors I was quite shocked at some of the comments from them in mixed classes, when my new forest was placed higher than a group of welshes from a local stud who were rearing and almost out of control.

I have a new forest and have been to the new forest bred show and I have never seen a more quiet group of people and ponies it was a very calm atmosphere. I wonder if the sort of people who like the highly strung welsh temperments are also a bit like that themselves so that is why we get this sort of behaviour.

MarketTrader I think you come across as a very agressive person and saying that using ginger is acceptable and bags/stones in bottles and saying the welsh breeders take advantage of people coming to them to buy a horse who they do not know etc is not helping your cause


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## rockysmum (23 March 2012)

markettrader said:



			You mentioned that you purchased from a good stud in Wales, let me let you into a little secret, when Studs sense that someone with little knowledge wants to come and buy from them, they scrape the bottom of the barrel to sell you the horses that they wouldn't even register if it weren't for the whole micro chipping situation.
		
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Having no interest at all in the Welsh breeds I have been reading this thread for amusement only.

Dont think this comment will encourage any of us to buy from a Welsh stud in a hurry.

Posting on here that studs are flogging bin end horses, and I assume using their prefixes, just backs up the OP's views on the whole scene.


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## cambrica (23 March 2012)

Wow MarketTrader that was some rant.
Firstly my horse behaved brilliantly so you must have him confused with another. His only fault was he didn't stand square. This was despite the carrying on with the man hurling abuse. Have I actually named anyone? No and its not because I don't know who they are.
Secondly my kids behaved superbly.
Thirdly the stud I bought him from is most definatley not as you decribed and it is disgraceful that you would suggest this. I searched for many months knowing exactly what I was looking for and I am not some head in the clouds niave buyer.
I certainly didn't stay as a spectator, it was a case of straight in the box, home and off to my sons performance as I was running seriously late.
Never in my life have I complained about any show I have attended, never have I voiced my opinion negatively about anybody online or otherwise. I thought long and hard about doing so this time but like I have said before there was an element at that show who like it or not treated their horses in an appalling manner. If folk remained silent about such things what a sad world it would become.


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## markettrader (23 March 2012)

I am never aggressive nor disrespectful to other horse owners and i never post on these forum things but sometimes people are quick to get on here and give welsh horse owners a bad reputation for no reason, how people treat their horses should not be of no opinion of anyone they are not asking any of you to feed them, pay for the entries the diesel etc so people should keep their opinions to their selves and not post stuff that is not 100% true. Maybe now people will keep their opinions to themselves and mind their own business! That is the best thing for everyone.  You will never change people using bags or bottles or ginger whether it is right or wrong, it is of no business to me as it is no business of anybody elses! People do things differently it is not right to try and right wrongs on a forum.


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## markettrader (23 March 2012)

And another thing regarding the stud section of my rant, this does happen but only because the bad uns take advantage of naive buyers but this happens with all breeds, does not mean all people are the same the good are being and feeling discriminated because people are too quick to only post the bad stuff they see and never the good.


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## rockysmum (23 March 2012)

markettrader said:



			I am never aggressive nor disrespectful to other horse owners and i never post on these forum things but sometimes people are quick to get on here and give welsh horse owners a bad reputation for no reason, how people treat their horses should not be of no opinion of anyone they are not asking any of you to feed them, pay for the entries the diesel etc so people should keep their opinions to their selves and not post stuff that is not 100% true. Maybe now people will keep their opinions to themselves and mind their own business! That is the best thing for everyone.  You will never change people using bags or bottles or ginger whether it is right or wrong, it is of no business to me as it is no business of anybody elses! People do things differently it is not right to try and right wrongs on a forum.
		
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Why should people keep their opinions to themselves.  Animal abuse is everyones business, anyone who thinks otherwise cannot describe themselves as an animal lover.

Most people on this forum are animal lovers


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## cambrica (23 March 2012)

markettrader said:



			I am never aggressive nor disrespectful to other horse owners and i never post on these forum things but sometimes people are quick to get on here and give welsh horse owners a bad reputation for no reason, how people treat their horses should not be of no opinion of anyone they are not asking any of you to feed them, pay for the entries the diesel etc so people should keep their opinions to their selves and not post stuff that is not 100% true. Maybe now people will keep their opinions to themselves and mind their own business! That is the best thing for everyone.  You will never change people using bags or bottles or ginger whether it is right or wrong, it is of no business to me as it is no business of anybody elses! People do things differently it is not right to try and right wrongs on a forum.
		
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You have been agressive and disrespectful. I have been a Welsh horse owner for well over 20 years. I am passionate about the welsh breed. If you saw a child being struck would you simply say thats none of my business? Or any other animal for that matter. Personally I can't as I do have a conscience. If this is a part of Welsh showing then no I do not want any part of it - but turn a blind eye? thats just cowardly. Not a pram in sight! 
Maybe somebody should shove some ginger up your backside!


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## rockysmum (23 March 2012)

markettrader said:



			And another thing regarding the stud section of my rant, this does happen but only because the bad uns take advantage of naive buyers but this happens with all breeds, does not mean all people are the same the good are being and feeling discriminated because people are too quick to only post the bad stuff they see and never the good.
		
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So I take it from your first post that you are accusing the stud which sold Cambrica her horse of these sort of practices.  I am sure they will be most unhappy to hear that.  Good thing you dont have to use your real name.




markettrader said:



			You mentioned that you purchased from a good stud in Wales, let me let you into a little secret, when Studs sense that someone with little knowledge wants to come and buy from them, they scrape the bottom of the barrel to sell you the horses that they wouldn't even register if it weren't for the whole micro chipping situation.  
.
		
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## markettrader (23 March 2012)

Divided opinions are always going to be there but sometimes my point is does it need to be aired on here discriminating the good you never hear of good things which is wrong, Towerlands is a good show with many good people but because of the minority and people only mentioning things that were not as bad as they were painted it reflects badly on the whole community which is unfair and wrong!.


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## Amaranta (23 March 2012)

markettrader said:



			I have sat and read this thread numerous times over and over again today, to say I am astonished by all the jobsworths who have their opinion about how Welsh Section C's & D's should look and shouldn't look....  Jealousy comes to mind, I remember Cambrica's horse in the ring...  Firstly it was quite clear that you couldn't control your horse maybe you need to enforce a bit of dicipline, Secondly a horse should be able to get it's head in the manger maybe try lowering it so your horse can actually eat!  You expressed your views on "Yobs with Cobs".  All because people with cobs express their appreciation of a GOOD COB in the ring (sorry if we didn't appreciate yours).  You mentioned that you purchased from a good stud in Wales, let me let you into a little secret, when Studs sense that someone with little knowledge wants to come and buy from them, they scrape the bottom of the barrel to sell you the horses that they wouldn't even register if it weren't for the whole micro chipping situation.  When you visited the Royal Welsh you mentioned that you never saw a carrier bag, or a bottle with stones in I find this to be very untrue as 99% of competitors use either one so next time you visit actually observe what is going on around you then maybe you might see the lovely stud you purchased from actually using one of the above to hype their horses up, then you might not be so dissapproving of Yobs With Cobs!!  If you was to visit majority of Studs and visited their fields you would only have to show their horses a carrier bag then you will see that the horses are not frightened or treated cruelly, they stick their tail up and show off, does this sound like a frightened horse because maybe I am wrong (which i doubt) but does a horse flag, prick their ears and show off if they are frightened, ain't it the other way round they generally have their ears flat back and their tail clamped down.    Please any of you's prim and proper horse owners correct me if I am wrong!!...   Regarding the TROLLOP who was seen shaking a whip with a bag on round the children, firstly I think it is highly disrespectful to call someone that who you don't know (maybe you would of got a peice of her mind if you actually told her that on the day hence the reason why you had to air your views on here) Secondly you expressed your views on children running around near the horses, I have read my schedule from that show 3 times and for the life of me I cannot see where it states - Towerlands Welsh Medal Show & Children's Creche.  It is a horse show not a childrens play area so if your children or any other peoples were running around near the horses that says more about the parenting than it actally does about the horse handlers.  I was not competing at the show this year but had a wonderful time, so for you to state that the handlers beat their horses and treated them in a horrid manner i find this hilarious, I have never read such rubbish.  Basically what you and other users on here are saying is that the horses were treated horribly, too fat, scared with bags and bottles etc - you should have opened your eyes and your ears when a horse came in the ring with it's tail up, giving a good show, looked immaculate and in top show condition where was it placed and how were the crowd buzzing , where was your horse standing? and did you get the crowds appreciation Eerm I don't beleive so NO.  As for you commending the organisers and the Judges this was the most fictional part I think you wrote becasue I heard with my own ears the show organiser saying outside the ring when the Section D Stallions were in that there was a lovely atmosphere.  Also the Section D Judge just before the Section D Stallions were about to come in when the music started he was dancing in the ring clapping getting the audience involved enhancing the atmosphere I personally found this amusing and involving as so did most of the crowd, I bet you were one of the spectators who was sitting in the stand not even smiling like you were at a funeral, this says more about you than it does everyone else.  In future I advise all you jobsworths and jealous people to stick to your local shows and leave the WPCA medal shows to those who are more suited unless you can attend without starting World War 3.  As for the person who complained about showing to The Who playing, Towerlands as always had music on during their classes ever since I can remember being  little and going.  Towerlands used to be the first show of the season and was always the one that you got hyped up for mainly becasue of the atmosphere it generated.  Everybody had their concerns with Bury Farm because of the area it is situated, becasue it was going to attract people who have got plums stuck in their mouth giving their very little knowledge and opinions to people who to be quite frank couldn't care less about your opinions as they mean very little.  Regarding the pictures that were posted these clearly show the affection between the horses and their owners so whoever said that the bottom one was cruel then you really need to keep your opinions to yourself because this man is a farrier and dotes on his animals just like the rest of us, just because some use whips and bags does not mean that they are treated badly.  A question for all you's who had an opinion... From my assumptions most of you have ridden horses aswell yes? when you break them do you never use a whip when schooling or use spurs when your horse is not going forward, you can tell everyone on here that you don't but when push comes to shove and your horse ain't going forward  bet the whips and spurs come out in full force to hell with what ever you broadcast on here, I bet your horse don't get a stroke and a polo then, so you's carry on lying to yourselves but beleive me behind closed doors I am not far from the truth am I.  As for criticising someones appearence I know exactly who you are slagging off all becasue they take pride in their appearence does not mean they are a bad person, we all can't look like Riff-Raff, to be honest some people looked like they needed 24 hours soak in the bath i don't see you criticising them or is that becasue the girls who made an effort made you feel a little insecure with yourselves!!.  With regards to the well known family using ginger, if you knew where to get it you would use it aswell, knowledge jealousy is the worst kind because you think you are very knowledgeable but in the end you's are just a riding school graduates.  The above is not just aimed at Cambrica it is aimed at everyone who put their two pennies worth in where it wasn't wanted or needed.   Cambrica you started this thread and to be honest you should have kept your opinions to yourself but no you came on here aired your views and got everyone on the band wagon so any attitude and dissapprovement you or any of the others get is completely expected, in future think before you start a thread slagging people and their horses off because you will get it back 10 times worse from all angles.  I agree there is good and bad in all horsey people but this thread gives people who have welsh horses a bad name and is dissrespectful to the good.  In my opinion people should keep their opinions to themself but becasue you all jumped on the band wagon about Welsh horse owners, you have got to have it i am afraid.  Sometimes people are good at airing what they beleive to be the truth all over the internet but are they big enough to take some back without chucking their toys out their pram.
		
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Sorry but this post says so much more about you than it does about the OP.  If you cannot put a point across without being personal and spiteful then you have already lost the argument.

Oh and before you accuse me of being jealous, don't even go there or I may have to wipe the floor with you.

I would also suggest that you would be better to use some punctuation, it would make your post much easier to read.


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## markettrader (23 March 2012)

I don't even know where the horse came from but earlier on i was angry that the good were not being praised and even the good in the pictures were being accused my whole point is that sometimes bad and good are not equally praised or critisised bad is only ever advertised.


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## rockysmum (23 March 2012)

Amaranta said:



			I would also suggest that you would be better to use some punctuation, it would make your post much easier to read.
		
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PMSL


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## SpruceRI (24 March 2012)

Agree with the OP, having shown a youngster at a WPCS show we were nearly mown down by the banshee of bag waving horse whacking brigade.

Went to watch the Welsh D stallion in-hand class at a County Show a couple of years ago and was shocked at how the outside assistance of whip cracking, whacking and bag waving was ignored by the judges.

And when the stallion with the most awful sway back won the class my friend and I decided that the judging was based on a 'clap-o-meter' or in this case, a 'scream-n-bellow-o-meter'.


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## cambrica (24 March 2012)

markettrader said:



			I don't even know where the horse came from but earlier on i was angry that the good were not being praised and even the good in the pictures were being accused my whole point is that sometimes bad and good are not equally praised or critisised bad is only ever advertised.
		
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Please feel free to go into my profile by clicking on my user name and find the previous threads on what stud my boy came from. Then please tell me that this is one of your scrape the barrel studs or one that that has selectively bred for over 200 years producing some of the most famous cobs ever. I will be careful what I write out of respect for the owner. I would be very interested what your opinion is then.


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## lledrith (24 March 2012)

Amaranta said:



			Sorry but this post says so much more about you than it does about the OP.  If you cannot put a point across without being personal and spiteful then you have already lost the argument.

Oh and before you accuse me of being jealous, don't even go there or I may have to wipe the floor with you.

I would also suggest that you would be better to use some punctuation, it would make your post much easier to read.
		
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I wasn't going to reply to this thread, because sometimes I think that on this forum it just isn't worth the aggravation BUT I have to say I am disgusted by the last sentence of this posting. A bit of a low blow don't you think? As for 'wiping the floor', obviously you mean online, because I can't imagine for one second that you would be so bold as to say that to the posters face... Seriously, adult behaviour please - some people can't spell, or punctuate, this does not make them inferior.

I think I can speak for a lot of us when I say that we are most offended about the nature of this thread. I have been showing Welsh Ponies & Cobs for 10+ years and I can honestly say, with only a very small minority letting the side down, that I have made some long lasting friends who love their ponies. I think in the past couple of years alone, the only time I can actually think of someone hitting their pony in a way that annoyed me was actually at the HCWPCA Show at Bury Farm but this was a one off incident and was dealt with.

I think that instead of inciting conflict on an internet forum, if you were genuinely concerned about the welfare of animals at the show that you should have raised a complaint at the time. It always makes me suspicious in this circumstance that the OP may have an axe to grind - the organiser of the show is a high profile figure within the WPCS and has never been afraid of putting her opinions forward if she believes they are correct.

For the majority of us that breed Welsh Ponies & Cobs, who work hard day in, day out to improve our stock, look after our stock & show our stock out of pride, to be persecuted for the actions of a very very small minority is very unfair and demotivating. Threads like this are damaging & cast a shadow not only over small studs like myself, but also larger and more well placed studs who have spent years building their reputation.


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## ZAULTAG (24 March 2012)

lledrith said:



			I wasn't going to reply to this thread, because sometimes I think that on this forum it just isn't worth the aggravation BUT I have to say I am disgusted by the last sentence of this posting. A bit of a low blow don't you think? As for 'wiping the floor', obviously you mean online, because I can't imagine for one second that you would be so bold as to say that to the posters face... Seriously, adult behaviour please - some people can't spell, or punctuate, this does not make them inferior.

I think I can speak for a lot of us when I say that we are most offended about the nature of this thread. I have been showing Welsh Ponies & Cobs for 10+ years and I can honestly say, with only a very small minority letting the side down, that I have made some long lasting friends who love their ponies. I think in the past couple of years alone, the only time I can actually think of someone hitting their pony in a way that annoyed me was actually at the HCWPCA Show at Bury Farm but this was a one off incident and was dealt with.

I think that instead of inciting conflict on an internet forum, if you were genuinely concerned about the welfare of animals at the show that you should have raised a complaint at the time. It always makes me suspicious in this circumstance that the OP may have an axe to grind - the organiser of the show is a high profile figure within the WPCS and has never been afraid of putting her opinions forward if she believes they are correct.

For the majority of us that breed Welsh Ponies & Cobs, who work hard day in, day out to improve our stock, look after our stock & show our stock out of pride, to be persecuted for the actions of a very very small minority is very unfair and demotivating. Threads like this are damaging & cast a shadow not only over small studs like myself, but also larger and more well placed studs who have spent years building their reputation.
		
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Very well said!


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## ponypilotmum (24 March 2012)

I, for one, think the reaction from the welshie showing circle on this thread speaks volumes. 

Aggressive, rude, bolshy and illiterate. 

Slating each others studs, and admitting to selling 'rubbish' to novices. 

I wonder what the wpcs will make  of this post, I do hope it's forwarded to them. What an awful reputation the welsh breeders have given each other!


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## icy (24 March 2012)

ZAULTAG said:



			Very well said!
		
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I was not going to respond to postings after my last because i have aired my unbiased view but i do have to say very well said to Lledrith on a clear and honest post , overall it still does not ring true to me why anyone would act in such a manner ? by posting alleged incidents on an open forum ! if it was such a disgrace and you truly witnessed horses being whipped in the face ! yet you did not report so much as one incident ???? how can you expect show organizers to act and deal with situations if it is not brought to their attention at the time ? this thread is actually pointless ! as there appears to be no evidence in photo, video, witnesses, or reports logged at the show to back your claim.and i find it a little odd that of the hundreds of people there that day you were the only one that saw these dreadful incidents ?


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## icy (24 March 2012)

.........................................................


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## Clodagh (24 March 2012)

Market Traders post was difficult to read with no paragraphs, I gave up so may have missed something.
Was it last year or the year before that a horse died on the way home from the Royal Welsh as it had been in the blacked out stables they use to make the horses more hyper and scared when they come out and it had over heated due to no ventilation. Such a shame for the breed.


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## icy (24 March 2012)

Clodagh, another of the mouths with no backup !!!! the horse you are referring to was Geller Pearl and i strongly recommend you speak with the owners regarding the vets findings of her sad passing before you post such nasty untruths. i do hope her owners read your post and contact you because your accusations are disgusting.


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## icy (24 March 2012)

If you had such knowledge of what happened you would have at least been able to post the mares name ! but no as per usual another that says too much with no evidence to support such vile accusations, i hope the owners of this mare contact you because had it been my mare with post mortem findings i would have taken this so much further , that was simply unnecessary, untrue and damn right lower than a snakes belly , i wouldnt waste spit on such a low life as yourself ! you are a disgrace !


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## loisb501 (24 March 2012)

markettrader said:



			Jealousy comes to mind, I remember Cambrica's horse in the ring...  _*Firstly it was quite clear that you couldn't control your horse maybe you need to enforce a bit of discipline*_,...  You expressed your views on "Yobs with Cobs".  All because people with cobs express their appreciation of a GOOD COB in the ring_* (sorry if we didn't appreciate yours)*_.  You mentioned that you purchased from a good stud in Wales, let me let you into a little secret, when Studs sense that someone with little knowledge wants to come and buy from them, they *scrape the bottom of the barrel to sell you the horses that they wouldn't even register if it weren't for the whole micro chipping situation.* With regards to the well known family using ginger, if you knew where to get it you would use it aswell, knowledge jealousy is the worst kind because you think you are very knowledgeable but in the end* you's are just a riding school graduates*.  The above is not just aimed at Cambrica it is aimed at everyone who put their two pennies worth in where it wasn't wanted or needed.   Cambrica you started this thread and to be honest you should have kept your opinions to yourself but no you came on here aired your views and got everyone on the band wagon so any attitude and dissapprovement you or any of the others get is completely expected, in future think before you start a thread slagging people and their horses off because you will get it back 10 times worse from all angles.  I agree there is good and bad in all horsey people but this thread gives people who have welsh horses a bad name and is dissrespectful to the good.  In my opinion people should keep their opinions to themself but becasue you all jumped on the band wagon about Welsh horse owners, you have got to have it i am afraid.  Sometimes people are good at airing what they beleive to be the truth all over the internet but are they big enough to take some back without chucking their toys out their pram.
		
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Wow! That was quite a personal, and unnecessary dig. I'm also not sure why it's relevant to involve the idea that a certain stud "scrapes the barrow" to sell on unwanted horses? Further enforcing the idea you were 'trying' to stop about this level of showing. Riding school graduates? Im pretty sure everyone starts somewhere, but, if there is somewhere where people are just born with this natural talent to show, ride and care for a horse please let me know, as i for one am still learning after 12 years of having horses. Of course this was after _graduating_ from a riding school.


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## Amaranta (24 March 2012)

lledrith said:



			I wasn't going to reply to this thread, because sometimes I think that on this forum it just isn't worth the aggravation BUT I have to say I am disgusted by the last sentence of this posting. A bit of a low blow don't you think? As for 'wiping the floor', obviously you mean online, because I can't imagine for one second that you would be so bold as to say that to the posters face... Seriously, adult behaviour please - some people can't spell, or punctuate, this does not make them inferior.

Were you as disgusted as I was when I read what marketrader had written to the OP?  As for 'wiping the floor' market trader had insinuated that people on this thread were purely jealous no nothings, my statement purely meant if he wanted to talk horse power, I could 'wipe the floor' with him, in much the same way that he/she 'wiped the floor' with the OP with his nasty spiteful comments.  As for my other comment, judicious use of paragraphs would have made the post much more easy to read, as it was the post just confirmed what the OP had reported. 

I think I can speak for a lot of us when I say that we are most offended about the nature of this thread. I have been showing Welsh Ponies & Cobs for 10+ years and I can honestly say, with only a very small minority letting the side down, that I have made some long lasting friends who love their ponies. I think in the past couple of years alone, the only time I can actually think of someone hitting their pony in a way that annoyed me was actually at the HCWPCA Show at Bury Farm but this was a one off incident and was dealt with.

I think that instead of inciting conflict on an internet forum, if you were genuinely concerned about the welfare of animals at the show that you should have raised a complaint at the time. It always makes me suspicious in this circumstance that the OP may have an axe to grind - the organiser of the show is a high profile figure within the WPCS and has never been afraid of putting her opinions forward if she believes they are correct.

For the majority of us that breed Welsh Ponies & Cobs, who work hard day in, day out to improve our stock, look after our stock & show our stock out of pride, to be persecuted for the actions of a very very small minority is very unfair and demotivating.  Threads like this are damaging & cast a shadow not only over small studs like myself, but also larger and more well placed studs who have spent years building their reputation.
		
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I actually agree with you, however, on reading the rant by marketrader, I was so incensed by their rudeness that I felt I had to respond, to be honest, that particular poster did more damage to the people involved with your breed than anything the OP wrote.  As for the OP having 'an axe to grind' - this is surely supposition on your part?

I have no doubt that you care deeply about your chosen breed, however, one thread on a internet forum is hardly persecution!


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## SO1 (24 March 2012)

I imagine that the OP did not say anything at the time when she was at the show as show grounds are very busy places, it is often hard to find out who is in charge, and often at such shows the organiser might know many of those exhibiting and be biased and some of the people who treat their horses in an agressive way can also treat people the same way so it could be quite intimidating. 

Bags on the end of sticks, stones in bottles, etc are common place in welsh showing so if the organisers felt these things where an issue then they would be banning them, though if they banned their use on the show ground they might not get many competitors. You have to be very brave to question tradition especially if people are know to be agressive. If the WPCS chose they could ban the use of bags on sticks, stones in bottles and other outside interferance such as banging on railings at their shows but they chose not so they obviously think it is acceptable behaviour.

If this sort of behaviour is seen as unacceptable by the majority of welsh owners why not lobby their breed society to get it banned at their shows?


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## chad n cory1 (24 March 2012)

SO1 said:



			I imagine that the OP did not say anything at the time when she was at the show as show grounds are very busy places, it is often hard to find out who is in charge, and often at such shows the organiser might know many of those exhibiting and be biased and some of the people who treat their horses in an agressive way can also treat people the same way so it could be quite intimidating. 

Bags on the end of sticks, stones in bottles, etc are common place in welsh showing so if the organisers felt these things where an issue then they would be banning them, though if they banned their use on the show ground they might not get many competitors. You have to be very brave to question tradition especially if people are know to be agressive. If the WPCS chose they could ban the use of bags on sticks, stones in bottles and other outside interferance such as banging on railings at their shows but they chose not so they obviously think it is acceptable behaviour.

If this sort of behaviour is seen as unacceptable by the majority of welsh owners why not lobby their breed society to get it banned at their shows?
		
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200 percent wright


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## chad n cory1 (24 March 2012)

its not like there abuseing the horses


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## NinjaPony (24 March 2012)

I have to agree with the OP. I took my well behaved welsh a to a medal show- never again! We were surrounded by lunatics with no regard for their horses or anyone else- huge stallions being wound up by sticks with plastic bags, rattles and so on.
They entered the ring in a dangerous manner, and continued in a dangerous manner. 
I had people deliberating rattling things at my pony to upset him, he can be sensitive but thank god he kept his cool.
My welsh pony is taught to behave in a calm manner, to trot out nicely and stand still.
Clearly some of these ponies were not!
All in all it was horrible experiance and I made a vow never to inflict it on him again. We now stick to county shows, NPS etc were behaviour like that is not tolerated.


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## chad n cory1 (24 March 2012)

at every show big shows small shows there bags stones in bottels and that is part of the welsh cob showing exiperance and if you do not like it you best find a differant breed


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## Capriole (24 March 2012)

nice attitude


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## NinjaPony (24 March 2012)

chad n cory1 said:



			at every show big shows small shows there bags stones in bottels and that is part of the welsh cob showing exiperance and if you do not like it you best find a differant breed 

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No, it is dangerous, ridiculous and does nothing to the ponies looks or mental state. I am never going to a welsh medal show again, after the behaviour I witnessed by owners.


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## Amaranta (24 March 2012)

Capriole said:



			nice attitude
		
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seems to be par for the course, good job they are not in charge of the PR


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## Capriole (24 March 2012)

true


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## Hedgewitch13 (24 March 2012)

Can't remember who said it earlier but the description 'yobs with cobs' seems appropriate after reading some of the posts on here. 

Horse abuse is wrong regardless of how it's done! Winding a horse up with bags, bottles or screeching like Saturday night chavs is awful and shame on those of you who can't see that. And no that isn't how a showing experience should be. Downright disgraceful. Idiots.


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## Ceris Comet (24 March 2012)

This thread has turned into welshie chave central !


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## rockysmum (24 March 2012)

Amaranta said:



			seems to be par for the course, good job they are not in charge of the PR 

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Even better that they are not in charge of writing the marketing material


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## Hedgewitch13 (24 March 2012)

*Snort*


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## maisie06 (24 March 2012)

Ceris Comet said:



			This thread has turned into welshie chave central !
		
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Oi!! I have a welsh cob, but I'm not a chav!! ---hmmmmm that maybe where I am going wrong!!!


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## Ceris Comet (24 March 2012)

Sorry maisie. Was suggesting the previous posters. Not you!


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## cambrica (24 March 2012)

Sorry shouldn't really be on here - should be watching BGT!
Is there anyone out there in their right minds that would have put in complaints at a show like that, or for that matter confronted these people? I would have been eaten alive. Not a coward but also not suicidal.
As for Market-Trader, well they have dug a hole big enough not just for themselves but all the 'element' involved. They have basically said that everything I pointed out had happened plus added the extra gingering-up that I knew nothing about. The only difference is they believe it to be acceptable and nobody elses business. 
Gingering up, are these people for real, never have I heard of anything so abhorrent, I can't actually comprehend that this goes on.
We should have swab tests taken and any owners found guilty should be put in an arena with chilli peppers up their backside, hand grenades thrown behind them and see which one is the best high-stepper then.
How on earth the studs in Wales view this post with the comments made - They are the ones with the centuries of breeding behind the cob - not this new age crowd.
Finally I will reiterate that I found that it was this element involved that is to blame and any showman who does not behave in this manner is the type of showman and their cob I wish to see, admire and feel that sense of excitement seeing these fantastic animals.


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## icy (24 March 2012)

So Cambrica you are now saying the show organizers are also non approachable and that you couldnt have discreetly mentioned the incidents to them ! total rubbish and a cowards excuse ! either that or you actually witnessed nothing ! sounds like sour grapes as you were 3rd out of three ! there are massive amount of photos from this show and im sure you can still find the culprits to name and shame , im pleased you have decided to never show there again as you have done very little other than moan, insult exhibitors the show in general and now the organizers, and bad mouthed in general with no proof ! to back up your allegations, perhaps you should consider giving your time into organizing a show yourself dealing with the hard work involved and enter yourself at least that way you might have a happy day ! i have heard some stories but such rubbish that you couldnt report the problems is just a total joke.


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## cambrica (24 March 2012)

Meant to also say thanks to marketrader as now I can rest my case !


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## icy (24 March 2012)

rest your case !!! you had no case with proof to rest !


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## beenthere (24 March 2012)

lledrith - I think your post was well said.

I take great offence to the poster who classed people as yobs with cobs and chavs!!  I own and breed welsh cobs and work damn hard to keep them, look after them and turn them out into a standard where I can compete them, just like the minority of welsh pony and cob owners - and to be classed as either of these two stero-types is highly offensive!  Why would you use the term chav is it because of the way these so called people dress?

To the originator of this post, you have had the balls to come onto a forum to air your views so why did you not have them with you to complain at the show, I am sure the show organiser would have been very proffessional and taken your concern/complaint and actioned it, as you or someone else referred to previously if you saw a child being struck in the supermarket would you go and tell the parents it was wrong.......maybe if they were wearing office clothes, perhaps not if they were wearing a tracksuit and gold earings!!!


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## markettrader (24 March 2012)

With regards to Camprica's recent comments, I have not dug an hole by no means i was just telling you and dogodders on here that we all know this goes on whether we deem it right or wrong you are in no position to comment. I also told you some hometruths which by the sounds of it you are quite upset about.

You and many others on this thread state that I was insulting and disrespectful, maybe you should have a look at all your previous quotes and many others alike, you and many others started insulting people on here before I even knew this thread existed so to then go on and say that I was insulting is an absolute joke.  Whats good for the goose is good for the gander.  You initially wrote in your first post that you welcomed opinions, opinions is what you have got.  If you didn't want honest opinions except ones that were agreeing with you, you should have kept your small minded comments to yourself along with others on here.

People have had alot to say as to what they beleive the welsh owners are like i.e. Yobs with Cobs - We only ever get aggressive or defensive when people who quite clearly just manufacture lies and try to attack us Yobs with Cobs.  

People's comments regarding the Geler Pearl's death about it being down to abuse should have kept their idiotic views to themselves becasue when this happened, AGAIN somebody who did not know the casue of death got straight on this forum and started shouting horse abuse this caused a stir on here also in which the Owner put an accurate account of what happened on here - you do not beleive me check it!!  So in future before you have anything to say check your facts and make sure they are correct before you cause hurt and distress to owners for no apparent reason other than your own stupidness and vocal problem (being that you cannot keep your mouth closed until you know what you are actually talking about).  (GO AHEAD LYNCH ME YOU KNOW FULL WELL I AM RIGHT)

It seems to me that you moan about horses being too fat, too excited... Well I moan when a horse is too skinny to show and would prefer to be left in the field than actually in a show ring.   

Horses are like children they need discipline, (this does not mean I condone child abuse before you all start ringing NSPCC and trying to make me out to be Myra Hindley!!), my point is you cannot put a Section D Stallion on the naughty step!! Would you discipline your child two or three hours after the incident NO you wouldn't because then they wouldn't know why you are punishing them, you do it on the spot of misbehaivour.  Exactly the same with horses....  

I see that not any of you commented on riders use of whips and spurs is this because I was right and you cannot admit that at home you are not so prim and proper.  

I agree with Icy that maybe Camprica has got a touch of the green eyed monster because her horse came nowhere in it's class, well I say don't hate the players, hate the game.  With regards to the show organisers, they are not big hulky bodybuilders they are little ladies so to say you were not suicidal is just hilarious.  Maybe next time you will take your major concerns of horse abuse to the organisers attention instead of causing a massacre on a forum becasue to be quite honest it is you that has dug a hole that you cannot get out of becasue you have NO CASE.  

As for the person who commented on my original post about paragraphs: Is this enough paragraphs for you.  

Never in my original post did I say I AGREE WITH GINGER AND BAGS, i simply said that people know it is used and it is something that this forum is NOT going to banish, no matter how much you fabricate the truth.  

Towerlands was a good show along with other medal shows clearly this sort of showing does not agree with you and many on here so maybe it is time to hang up your boots.

"Chav's comes to mind" someone said, when you point the finger at someone there is always three pointing back at you.. People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones!!

So my final point is everyone was quick to get on here and slag us "Yobs With Cobs" off with no regards for us.  Well you have quite clearly had a dose of your own medicine it don't taste so nice now does it!!  

And anybody got a problem with my punctuality or my paragraphs or the way I have set my post out or any spelling mistakes, please do let me know becasue I will be very grateful of your opinion.


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## rockysmum (24 March 2012)

beenthere said:



			I own and breed welsh cobs and work damn hard to keep them, look after them and turn them out into a standard where I can compete them, just like the *minority* of welsh pony and cob owners
		
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LOL  

After reading this thread I think you might be right


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## rockysmum (24 March 2012)

markettrader said:



			And anybody got a problem with my punctuality or my paragraphs or the way I have set my post out or any spelling mistakes, please do let me know becasue I will be very grateful of your opinion.
		
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I doubt any of us have enough time


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## trottingon (24 March 2012)

markettrader said:



			With regards to Camprica's recent comments, I have not dug an hole by no means i was just telling you and dogodders on here that we all know this goes on whether we deem it right or wrong you are in no position to comment. I also told you some hometruths which by the sounds of it you are quite upset about.

You and many others on this thread state that I was insulting and disrespectful, maybe you should have a look at all your previous quotes and many others alike, you and many others started insulting people on here before I even knew this thread existed so to then go on and say that I was insulting is an absolute joke.  Whats good for the goose is good for the gander.  You initially wrote in your first post that you welcomed opinions, opinions is what you have got.  If you didn't want honest opinions except ones that were agreeing with you, you should have kept your small minded comments to yourself along with others on here.

People have had alot to say as to what they beleive the welsh owners are like i.e. Yobs with Cobs - We only ever get aggressive or defensive when people who quite clearly just manufacture lies and try to attack us Yobs with Cobs.  

People's comments regarding the Geler Pearl's death about it being down to abuse should have kept their idiotic views to themselves becasue when this happened, AGAIN somebody who did not know the casue of death got straight on this forum and started shouting horse abuse this caused a stir on here also in which the Owner put an accurate account of what happened on here - you do not beleive me check it!!  So in future before you have anything to say check your facts and make sure they are correct before you cause hurt and distress to owners for no apparent reason other than your own stupidness and vocal problem (being that you cannot keep your mouth closed until you know what you are actually talking about).  (GO AHEAD LYNCH ME YOU KNOW FULL WELL I AM RIGHT)

It seems to me that you moan about horses being too fat, too excited... Well I moan when a horse is too skinny to show and would prefer to be left in the field than actually in a show ring.   

Horses are like children they need discipline, (this does not mean I condone child abuse before you all start ringing NSPCC and trying to make me out to be Myra Hindley!!), my point is you cannot put a Section D Stallion on the naughty step!! Would you discipline your child two or three hours after the incident NO you wouldn't because then they wouldn't know why you are punishing them, you do it on the spot of misbehaivour.  Exactly the same with horses....  

I see that not any of you commented on riders use of whips and spurs is this because I was right and you cannot admit that at home you are not so prim and proper.  

I agree with Icy that maybe Camprica has got a touch of the green eyed monster because her horse came nowhere in it's class, well I say don't hate the players, hate the game.  With regards to the show organisers, they are not big hulky bodybuilders they are little ladies so to say you were not suicidal is just hilarious.  Maybe next time you will take your major concerns of horse abuse to the organisers attention instead of causing a massacre on a forum becasue to be quite honest it is you that has dug a hole that you cannot get out of becasue you have NO CASE.  

As for the person who commented on my original post about paragraphs: Is this enough paragraphs for you.  

Never in my original post did I say I AGREE WITH GINGER AND BAGS, i simply said that people know it is used and it is something that this forum is NOT going to banish, no matter how much you fabricate the truth.  

Towerlands was a good show along with other medal shows clearly this sort of showing does not agree with you and many on here so maybe it is time to hang up your boots.

"Chav's comes to mind" someone said, when you point the finger at someone there is always three pointing back at you.. People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones!!

So my final point is everyone was quick to get on here and slag us "Yobs With Cobs" off with no regards for us.  Well you have quite clearly had a dose of your own medicine it don't taste so nice now does it!!  

And anybody got a problem with my punctuality or my paragraphs or the way I have set my post out or any spelling mistakes, please do let me know becasue I will be very grateful of your opinion.
		
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For God's sake Marketrader, wind your neck in.  Talk about getting out of the wrong side of the bed...!!!!!

The OP came on here to give their opinion of some poor handling at a show.  She did not slag off all welshie owners or breeders, but stated facts as they saw them on the day, and stated her discomfort at some of the things she saw.  End of.  Quite why you think that deserves your vilification I don't know??? 

You certainly haven't said anything on this thread to be proud of or for any welsh owners/breeders to be proud of, in fact just the opposite.  I for one am quite disgusted at your behaviour.  By the way this is my opinion.  I am allowed to state my opinion on here because it is an open forum.  If it wasn't for opinions forums wouldn't exist.  The OP, myself and anyone else who chooses to can give an opinion.  Let's face it, your posts are your opinions, so please don't tell people they shouldn't give opinions, you dingbat!!!  Grow up!


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## trottingon (24 March 2012)

trottingon said:



			For God's sake Marketrader, wind your neck in.  Talk about getting out of the wrong side of the bed...!!!!!

The OP came on here to give their opinion of some poor handling at a show.  She did not slag off all welshie owners or breeders, but stated facts as they saw them on the day, and stated her discomfort at some of the things she saw.  End of.  Quite why you think that deserves your vilification I don't know??? 

You certainly haven't said anything on this thread to be proud of or for any welsh owners/breeders to be proud of, in fact just the opposite.  I for one am quite disgusted at your behaviour.  By the way this is my opinion.  I am allowed to state my opinion on here because it is an open forum.  If it wasn't for opinions forums wouldn't exist.  The OP, myself and anyone else who chooses to can give an opinion.  Let's face it, your post s are your opinions, so please don't tell people they shouldn't give opinions, without opinions forums wouldn't exist, you dingbat!!!  Grow up!
		
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I've just realised I singled you out Markettrader, this was unfair of me.  In my opinion ICY also needs to grow up!

Good night.


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## help111 (24 March 2012)

I have resisted posting so far but unfortunately now feel that there needs to be some sense made of all the bitching and hearsay gossip which has gone far to far and tbh will probably result in this pointless thread being pulled by the mods.  Feelings are running high due to the ignorant and well off the mark comments made and whilst Markettrader made some valid points they could have probably done with reflecting on their comments made in the heat of the moment.
It is clear that as usual the 'internet keyboard warriers / trolls' have alot more dutch courage to say unsubstantiated drivel when they can hide behind anonymity that if they actually had to put their names to their postings.  Certain peoples postings are decending into ever more farcical allegations and insults which are more appropriate in a playground setting than on a seemingly sensible adult forum.  

1.  To the OP 'Cambrica', firstly i'm sure you must have had some idea what Towerlands Show was like, it has been going for many years and forums are usually buzzing with talk of the atmosphere, music, cobs from all over the country going etc.  It is renown as the season opener and is treated by people as a celebration of the season starting, a pony party!  I presume as you have had experience of going to the Royal Welsh then yes you will be aware that cobs are shown with a certain flair - head and tail up and there is plenty of cheering from the crowd to excite them.  As the grand ring is the size of a football pitch (maybe bigger?!) and all cobs have to walk through the gates into the ring then plastic bags and tins will have absolutely no effect on them as they will be far to far away.  Therefore you must have known there would be some atmosphere at the show.  
Secondly, if anyone sees any act of cruelty to an animal at a show I expect the organisers to be informed immediately, to say you were intimidated by the organisers is downright rude and a blatent excuse for why you chose to do nothing on the day but to bitch anonymously afterwards on a forum which does nothing to help an animal which may or may not have been abused.
Thirdly, you were in a gelding 3 yrs and under class, the WPCS has been increasing the profile and sponsorship of these classes as they are damn important in the times we are in to encourage the gelding of colts and make them more attractive to exhibitors and also to allow them to compete on the same footing as colts & fillies etc.  The standard of gelding classes is therefore getting higher and higher as more people take on board this message.  I'm afraid your cob may have been bred by a well known stud in Wales but the prefix alone does not make it a good one.  Towerlands is a WPCS Silver Medal show which means it is a prestigious event (yes probably the WPCS equivalent to a HOYS qualifier) with a high quality and quantity of entries and if you are going to compete at this level you need to prepare yourself and your pony properly.  Correct feeding, trimming, grooming and turnout are absolutely vital if you want to stand shoulder to shoulder with 'the big boys' and not stick out like a sore thumb propping up the wrong end of the line.  Showing is expensive and I know that I would not keep travelling to shows spending a fortune if I was at the bottom - not fun.  I also know that if I stand down the line at a show I look at the ponies above me and think 'what can I do to improve my pony' so I stand higher the next time.  I do not go home and call the judge a w****r, the other competitors Chavs or the show a pile of Sh**e.
To the idiot who had the audacity to say that the older gentleman kissing his cob was forcing it and agressive whip handed, what an idiot you are.  Mr Andy Bircher you were referring to, is an extremely quiet, nice and Gentle man who is a lovely character at the shows.  The palomino cob was only a yearling filly and he handled her with great care and it was obvious there is a strong bond with her as with all his cobs.  If you would care to look at Chris Newmans Towerlands pictures on her facebook page (Sorry Chris hope you dont mind) you will see that is plainly obvious.  BTW Cob whips, which seem to cause such offence are actually as good as useless if you actually need to hit a horse, they are there more to finish off the picture than anything else.
Re: GINGERING!! - Almost an urban legend this one, yes it does go on, but far less that you would think (think about rapping showjumpers, oh yes you must ALL be doing it!)  The vast majority of people showing welsh ponies and cobs do not need to use such methods, if the pony enjoys the show ring atmosphere it will show itself naturally.  A case in point - I showed a pony last year, 1st show I had to practically drag her round the ring, she was unimpressed.  As time went on she got more and more confident and really started to enjoy herself, by the Nationals (far less atmosphere than RW) she was bouncing and snorting and flagging her tail.  No she wasnt gingered, blindfolded, shut in the dark either, she actually spend most of the summer in the field and she looked marvelous as a result.  So dont point the finger unless you have evidence!     
To the REPROBATE who has made the extremely libellous comments regarding Geler Pearl, hearsay and chinese whispers are a terrible thing.  Her passing was a source of great distress to her owners.  I hope you have nothing to identify you on here as I would be consulting my solicitor if I was her owner.  Terrible nasty underhanded person with no parents, this is the very worst sort of internet troll.  
Finally there are as we know, good and bad in all walks of life and in all areas of horse ownership.  What is the difference between bad cob handlers and rough showjump riders, or over horsed 'bimbos' on big warmbloods that are dominated and bullied into submission with big bits and spurs not allowed free relaxed expressive movement?  The sight of a good welsh pony or cob showing off with a handler in whom they trust is one to behold, the movement is totally balanced, ears pricked, head and tail held high.  That is what anyone who shows them should aspire to.


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## trottingon (24 March 2012)

rockysmum said:



			I doubt any of us have enough time
		
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PMSL )


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## ponypilotmum (24 March 2012)

markettrader said:



			And anybody got a problem with my punctuality or my paragraphs or the way I have set my post out or any spelling mistakes, please do let me know becasue I will be very grateful of your opinion.
		
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None of the above. Just your grammar. 

I have visions of plenty of decent welsh breeders cringing whilst reading this. The argument put forward by the welsh showing 'lot' leaves a lot to be desired, and furthers my belief that OP was speaking the truth.  

Why would you get aggressive unless someone named you personally and accused you of animal abuse? OP never named anyone. But in return you picked apart her placing in the class, pulled apart the breeding of her pony and personally insulted her. You bragged of 'gingering up' and studs that sell 'rubbish' to novices. 

Maybe your intent is to scare other competitors off. What is it you're so frightened of here? Competition? Someone speaking up? because if I was faced with the likes of you I wouldn't dare lodge a complaint either! 

I hope that following this eye opening thread, and the reaction of the welsh showing 'clique' (so many new members, one small post)  anyone who witnessed the dangerous behaviour will make a complaint to the wpcs and towerlands. I would hope that towerlands being the establishment it is, and the wpcs, would not condone such vile cruelty as 'gingering up' and as a result would take action against anyone found guilty of doing this. 

I use whips where appropriate, but the only time anything goes up my horses bottom is medical reasons only!


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## mountainview22 (24 March 2012)

Damn, why is it whenever we (Welsh) are on t.v, radio or in a film we make a complete ar se of ourselves.

Seems now it happens on forums too. If it wasn't for my accent I'd pretend I wasn't Welsh. We must look a bunch of illiterate ten year old travellers... And I've only read the last page of this thread!


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## trottingon (24 March 2012)

lucky-lady said:



			None of the above. Just your grammar. 

I have visions of plenty of decent welsh breeders cringing whilst reading this. The argument put forward by the welsh showing 'lot' leaves a lot to be desired, and furthers my belief that OP was speaking the truth.  

Why would you get aggressive unless someone named you personally and accused you of animal abuse? OP never named anyone. But in return you picked apart her placing in the class, pulled apart the breeding of her pony and personally insulted her. You bragged of 'gingering up' and studs that sell 'rubbish' to novices. 

Maybe your intent is to scare other competitors off. What is it you're so frightened of here? Competition? Someone speaking up? because if I was faced with the likes of you I wouldn't dare lodge a complaint either! 

I hope that following this eye opening thread, and the reaction of the welsh showing 'clique' (so many new members, one small post)  anyone who witnessed the dangerous behaviour will make a complaint to the wpcs and towerlands. I would hope that towerlands being the establishment it is, and the wpcs, would not condone such vile cruelty as 'gingering up' and as a result would take action against anyone found guilty of doing this. 

I use whips where appropriate, but the only time anything goes up my horses bottom is medical reasons only!
		
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Well said!


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## ponypilotmum (24 March 2012)

mountainview22 said:



			Damn, why is it whenever we (Welsh) are on t.v, radio or in a film we make a complete ar se of ourselves.

Seems now it happens on forums too. If it wasn't for my accent I'd pretend I wasn't Welsh. We must look a bunch of illiterate ten year old travellers... And I've only read the last page of this thread!
		
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Love it


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## Amaranta (24 March 2012)

markettrader said:



			With regards to Camprica's recent comments, I have not dug an hole by no means i was just telling you and dogodders on here that we all know this goes on whether we deem it right or wrong you are in no position to comment. I also told you some hometruths which by the sounds of it you are quite upset about.

You and many others on this thread state that I was insulting and disrespectful, maybe you should have a look at all your previous quotes and many others alike, you and many others started insulting people on here before I even knew this thread existed so to then go on and say that I was insulting is an absolute joke.  Whats good for the goose is good for the gander.  You initially wrote in your first post that you welcomed opinions, opinions is what you have got.  If you didn't want honest opinions except ones that were agreeing with you, you should have kept your small minded comments to yourself along with others on here.

People have had alot to say as to what they beleive the welsh owners are like i.e. Yobs with Cobs - We only ever get aggressive or defensive when people who quite clearly just manufacture lies and try to attack us Yobs with Cobs.  

People's comments regarding the Geler Pearl's death about it being down to abuse should have kept their idiotic views to themselves becasue when this happened, AGAIN somebody who did not know the casue of death got straight on this forum and started shouting horse abuse this caused a stir on here also in which the Owner put an accurate account of what happened on here - you do not beleive me check it!!  So in future before you have anything to say check your facts and make sure they are correct before you cause hurt and distress to owners for no apparent reason other than your own stupidness and vocal problem (being that you cannot keep your mouth closed until you know what you are actually talking about).  (GO AHEAD LYNCH ME YOU KNOW FULL WELL I AM RIGHT)

It seems to me that you moan about horses being too fat, too excited... Well I moan when a horse is too skinny to show and would prefer to be left in the field than actually in a show ring.   

Horses are like children they need discipline, (this does not mean I condone child abuse before you all start ringing NSPCC and trying to make me out to be Myra Hindley!!), my point is you cannot put a Section D Stallion on the naughty step!! Would you discipline your child two or three hours after the incident NO you wouldn't because then they wouldn't know why you are punishing them, you do it on the spot of misbehaivour.  Exactly the same with horses....  

I see that not any of you commented on riders use of whips and spurs is this because I was right and you cannot admit that at home you are not so prim and proper.  

I agree with Icy that maybe Camprica has got a touch of the green eyed monster because her horse came nowhere in it's class, well I say don't hate the players, hate the game.  With regards to the show organisers, they are not big hulky bodybuilders they are little ladies so to say you were not suicidal is just hilarious.  Maybe next time you will take your major concerns of horse abuse to the organisers attention instead of causing a massacre on a forum becasue to be quite honest it is you that has dug a hole that you cannot get out of becasue you have NO CASE.  

As for the person who commented on my original post about paragraphs: Is this enough paragraphs for you.  

Never in my original post did I say I AGREE WITH GINGER AND BAGS, i simply said that people know it is used and it is something that this forum is NOT going to banish, no matter how much you fabricate the truth.  

Towerlands was a good show along with other medal shows clearly this sort of showing does not agree with you and many on here so maybe it is time to hang up your boots.

"Chav's comes to mind" someone said, when you point the finger at someone there is always three pointing back at you.. People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones!!

So my final point is everyone was quick to get on here and slag us "Yobs With Cobs" off with no regards for us.  Well you have quite clearly had a dose of your own medicine it don't taste so nice now does it!!  

And anybody got a problem with my punctuality or my paragraphs or the way I have set my post out or any spelling mistakes, please do let me know becasue I will be very grateful of your opinion.
		
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Thanks for the paragraphs - this post is MUCH easier to read 

Sadly, the punctuation still needs work


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## Amaranta (24 March 2012)

mountainview22 said:



			Damn, why is it whenever we (Welsh) are on t.v, radio or in a film we make a complete ar se of ourselves.

Seems now it happens on forums too. If it wasn't for my accent I'd pretend I wasn't Welsh. We must look a bunch of illiterate ten year old travellers... And I've only read the last page of this thread!
		
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My mum is Welsh, she is not an illiterate chav and very rarely makes an ar se of herself


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## mountainview22 (24 March 2012)

Unfortunately lucky lady, I don't. It's a pita, when ever I speak to someone new not from Wales I swear they're waiting for "oh,.whas occurring" or some sort of similar **** up... I'm off to wash my filthy accent off


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## trottingon (24 March 2012)

mountainview22 said:



			Damn, why is it whenever we (Welsh) are on t.v, radio or in a film we make a complete ar se of ourselves.

Seems now it happens on forums too. If it wasn't for my accent I'd pretend I wasn't Welsh. We must look a bunch of illiterate ten year old travellers... And I've only read the last page of this thread!
		
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Don't worry, us non-Welsh-people know that Welsh people are generally perfectly reasonable and pleasant normal people, who have a deep passion for their equines, however there are bad pennies lurking in most places and unfortunately this post seems to have woken a few of them up!  I'd like to think its aimed at owners of Welsh ponies rather than pony owners of Welsh origin.


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## beenthere (24 March 2012)

Rockysmum- another one to pick up someones use of incorrect words or lack of commas etc, thank u ever so much to bring this to my attention and i can confirm the word you clearly marked in bold in my previous post was meant to be majority!


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## mountainview22 (24 March 2012)

Aramanta, I'm also Welsh and whilst I'd like to believe your comment would be applicable to me, it's not and your mum is just one of the lucky ones...


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## mountainview22 (24 March 2012)

Trottington, all I can say is that does apply to me, the good penny obviously.

I'd rather save the ginger for cooking and the bag for Tescos, saves spending 10p on a new bag!


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## help111 (24 March 2012)

Obviously my post went right over the heads of you bunch of bickering children.  The playground antics continue... Yea Gods!


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## Amaranta (24 March 2012)

mountainview22 said:



			Aramanta, I'm also Welsh and whilst I'd like to believe your comment would be applicable to me, it's not and your mum is just one of the lucky ones...
		
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Ahh bless your cotton socks, don't lose the accent, I love it


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## mountainview22 (24 March 2012)

Help,.what post?

Sorry, accent took over. I'm afraid as every other welshie has made me look a jack arse on here I may as well re instate the fact that SOME Welsh people are upfor a joke and not childish bitching **** stirrers.

Aramanta, what is it about some people liking the accent? I normally get asked to repeat myself about twenty times whilst speaking to non welshies.


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## trottingon (24 March 2012)

help111 said:



			Obviously my post went right over the heads of you bunch of bickering children.  The playground antics continue... Yea Gods!
		
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Yawn.


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## icy (24 March 2012)

trottingon said:



			I've just realised I singled you out Markettrader, this was unfair of me.  In my opinion ICY also needs to grow up!

Good night.
		
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Trottingon please enlighten me and tell me why i need to grow up ? i have posted facts ! that there is no reported evidence ! i do not have the slightest interest in the mud slinging , i just think that to post allegations of horses being whipped in faces and making a good well organised show that was well supported, slandered without proof is wrong and yes i too am entitltled to an opinion ! if you wish to have a word with me about this feel free to contact me or i will be at the agm if you want to see me ! if you wish to get personal and wish to insult me id far rather you do it to my face not behind the bravery of your keyboard ! is that adult enough for you ?


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## mountainview22 (24 March 2012)

Oh yeah, help11, for a newbie, you seem to know alot about the forum mechanics, e.g. post being pulled because of certain comments.


Do you have many cats by any chance?


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## trottingon (24 March 2012)

I love Welsh accents personally!


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## mountainview22 (24 March 2012)

Icy, calm down. If someone annoys you on here let it lie, it will annoy them more.

No need to invite people for a brawl. 

I'm not having a go, but it leaves you looking the bad egg posting things like the above.


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## ponypilotmum (24 March 2012)

icy said:



			Trottingon please enlighten me and tell me why i need to grow up ? i have posted facts ! that there is no reported evidence ! i do not have the slightest interest in the mud slinging , i just think that to post allegations of horses being whipped in faces and making a good well organised show that was well supported, slandered without proof is wrong and yes i too am entitltled to an opinion ! if you wish to have a word with me about this feel free to contact me or i will be at the agm if you want to see me ! if you wish to get personal and wish to insult me id far rather you do it to my face not behind the bravery of your keyboard ! is that adult enough for you ?
		
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That narrows you down. 

I repeat, I hope the WPCS is proud of the representation it's getting on possibly the world's biggest horse forum, on the main page, for all to see... 

I wonder if this will make the H&H forum top ten this week? 

Ps I love the welsh accent.


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## BossHoss (24 March 2012)

Hmmm... having a good moan are we? 
Hiding behind usernames making us invincible?
Well - how about saying it to our faces? 
I'm sure most horse owners appreciate constructive criticism - when the person giving it has a valid point!
Next time you see something at a show that bothers you (and this may seem like a CRAZY idea to some of you) - SAY SOMETHING TO THE ORGANISERS/STEWARDS/JUDGES/OWNERS/HANDLERS !  
Its all very well having a whinge and moan anonymously on here - if you're so sure of your convictions - why not say it outright?


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## mountainview22 (24 March 2012)

Where abouts are you two (armanta and trots) from? Not because I want to try out the Welsh charm  but so I know of I'm in your area I won't get the sarcy "from Wales? Really? I'd never have known" but someone who appreciates my mumbling banter


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## mountainview22 (25 March 2012)

I hope it doesn't make the top ten.

We were in the last issue for fly grazing, then this this issue.

Just to add, I left Porthcawl in south Wales and arrived somewhere in surry on Thursday to be shown said fly grazing article. The embarassment alone rushed me off the yard.

We are not all fly grazing ginger-bum--fingering bad mannered angry people, would you believe?


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## ponypilotmum (25 March 2012)

BossHoss said:



			Hmmm... having a good moan are we? 
Hiding behind usernames making us invincible?
Well - how about saying it to our faces? 
I'm sure most horse owners appreciate constructive criticism - when the person giving it has a valid point!
Next time you see something at a show that bothers you (and this may seem like a CRAZY idea to some of you) - SAY SOMETHING TO THE ORGANISERS/STEWARDS/JUDGES/OWNERS/HANDLERS !  
Its all very well having a whinge and moan anonymously on here - if you're so sure of your convictions - why not say it outright? 

Click to expand...

Let's be honest here. If OP HAD complained, if she had gone to the show organisers and said "exhibit number ***'s handler was hitting it". What would have happened? If she had confronted the handlers, what would have happened? 
I'm not utterly stupid... I know what would happen. But dare anyone admit that the showing circle is so tight knit and that ranks would be closed and denial pushed forwards? 
You, I, and every other person who has ever stood in a ring with welsh cob owners KNOWS what goes on behind the scenes. How fiercely competitive it is. How some of these people LIVE on the road, showing is their bread and butter. 
Anyone who complains gets a bad name in the showing circle and they can wave any chance of a red rosette ever from that society goodbye. I am not at all surprised the OP walked away and said nothing. But questions are being asked here and now, on this forum, and yet she's been met with aggression and personal insults. Do you still wonder why she didn't approach anyone at the show? It doesn't take a genius to understand.


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## Amaranta (25 March 2012)

mountainview22 said:



			Where abouts are you two (armanta and trots) from? Not because I want to try out the Welsh charm  but so I know of I'm in your area I won't get the sarcy "from Wales? Really? I'd never have known" but someone who appreciates my mumbling banter 

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East Anglia MV


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## ponypilotmum (25 March 2012)

mountainview22 said:



			We are not all fly grazing ginger-bum--fingering bad mannered angry people, would you believe?
		
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 LMAO! 


No, I don't believe it for one second. 

Don't forget the asda carrier bags and carling tins full of the the finest welsh stones.


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## Amaranta (25 March 2012)

lucky-lady said:



			LMAO! 


No, I don't believe it for one second. 

Don't forget the asda carrier bags and carling tins full of the the finest welsh stones. 

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*whispers* or the sheep


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## ponypilotmum (25 March 2012)

Amaranta said:



			*whispers* or the sheep 

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or the velcro knee pads


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## mountainview22 (25 March 2012)

Armanta where  abouts is that? Lol 

I told you lucky lady,.we pay 10p for a bag, I'd sooner use it to carry my shopping than wave it at a horse!

As far as sheep go, me and little brother picked up mums mothers day colt from Truro in Cornwall a week ago Saturday, my 19 year old brothers genuine comment...

"why the **** do they call us sheep shaggers, there's more sheep here than people"


Needless.to say, I did have a little chuckle.


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## mountainview22 (25 March 2012)

Those knee pads are for nothing more than sliding across wooden floors, y'know, like when your ten years old at your best mates birthday disco and your have to see who can skid the furthest?

Or Is that another ginger finger "thing"? 

*runs off chuckling*


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## rockysmum (25 March 2012)

beenthere said:



			Rockysmum- another one to pick up someones use of incorrect words or lack of commas etc, thank u ever so much to bring this to my attention and i can confirm the word you clearly marked in bold in my previous post was meant to be majority!
		
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In your case it wasn't just lack of commas, you managed to make the post the total opposite of what, I assume, you intended.  Quite a feat even on this thread.


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## icy (25 March 2012)

lucky-lady said:



			Let's be honest here. If OP HAD complained, if she had gone to the show organisers and said "exhibit number ***'s handler was hitting it". What would have happened? If she had confronted the handlers, what would have happened? 
I'm not utterly stupid... I know what would happen. But dare anyone admit that the showing circle is so tight knit and that ranks would be closed and denial pushed forwards? 
You, I, and every other person who has ever stood in a ring with welsh cob owners KNOWS what goes on behind the scenes. How fiercely competitive it is. How some of these people LIVE on the road, showing is their bread and butter. 
Anyone who complains gets a bad name in the showing circle and they can wave any chance of a red rosette ever from that society goodbye. I am not at all surprised the OP walked away and said nothing. But questions are being asked here and now, on this forum, and yet she's been met with aggression and personal insults. Do you still wonder why she didn't approach anyone at the show? It doesn't take a genius to understand.
		
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Sorry but i really do not agree, i honestly believe that had a complaint been logged with the organizers then it would have been delt with professionally and no way would such treatment of any animal at this show been overlooked, there were a couple of incidents that i saw delt with immediately, like a whip with a bag on the end and a broken whip, the organizers, judges and stewards were very professional but they can only act on being informed, and i wouldnt give a damn who i offended if i saw a horse misstreated in such a manner i would 100% report it, any report can be given discreetly as not everyone is of the same nature i appreciate this, but ignoring it doesnt help stamp out these problems.


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## rockysmum (25 March 2012)

help111 said:



			Obviously my post went right over the heads of you bunch of bickering children.  The playground antics continue... Yea Gods!
		
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In your case it wasn't the lack of paragraphs, it was the use of white, or dirty yellow space.

Those of us who had to suffer RSA typing know that you hit return twice at the end of a paragraph.  Makes it much easier to read


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## trottingon (25 March 2012)

icy said:



			Trottingon please enlighten me and tell me why i need to grow up ? i have posted facts ! that there is no reported evidence ! i do not have the slightest interest in the mud slinging , i just think that to post allegations of horses being whipped in faces and making a good well organised show that was well supported, slandered without proof is wrong and yes i too am entitltled to an opinion ! if you wish to have a word with me about this feel free to contact me or i will be at the agm if you want to see me ! if you wish to get personal and wish to insult me id far rather you do it to my face not behind the bravery of your keyboard ! is that adult enough for you ?
		
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Yes, this response is far more mature, thank you.

I've just typed  huge response, but then was logged out before I could post it...AARRRGGGHHH!!!!  I hate it when that happens!

I'm not hiding behind my keyboard - this is a forum, that's how they work, I don't know who you are either, do I???

Just because the OP did not take photos, you don't believe her?  I don't feel she was mud-slinging - I too have no interest in this, however I feel that she came on here and posted about what she had seen.  Clearly that is not evidence enough for you?  Have you spoken to absolutely everyone who was at that show?  How do you know other people did not witness similar things to the OP?  I've not witnessed head-whipping etc or supposed blatant cruelty, but the number of horses/ponies I see being yanked in the mouth unnecessarily, particularly youngsters who aren't doing anything obviously wrong drives me mad, and the winding up of Section Ds at shows absolutely drives me potty and in my opinion is unsafe and completely uncalled for - if an animal can't move well and be flashy enough to win without such outside influences it doesn't deserve to win really, does it?  And anyone "gingering up" their horses needs shooting! 

I just find it worrying that rather than be concerned about the reputation of welsh owners/breeders/classes or the WPCS, certain posters have jumped on the OP, basically classed her as a liar and claimed that everything that goes on at these shows is totally above board and perfect in every way - It isn't, and I'm sure having been involved in showing as you seem to have been, you know that as much as I do.

Maybe the OP did not have the confidence to approach the organisers on the day to relay her findings?  She certainly does not need slagging off for not doing so.  Perhaps she felt the need to hear other people's opinions and had she received support on here instead of slagging off she might be more inclined to say something next time she sees handling that she is not comfortable with, but most likely now will avoid these types of shows and keep her mouth shut in future.  I just don't think the people who jumped on her demonstrated a fair approach, and those who did should take a long hard look at the reality of the situation before they comment in future.


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## fidleyspromise (25 March 2012)

This has been an "interesting" read.
I started to read the thread with mild interest, and to see what opinions there were etc.
I then came across the last few pages and those from the Welsh Cob Owners have just come across as arrogant and very aggressive.  

When looking for my last horse, I had been looking for a Welsh C and came away with a New Forest.  All I feel is relief and I think I will stay away from Welsh Cobs and showing, as all they have shown here is how rude and unfriendly they actually are.  

If this is indicative of the Welsh Cob world, then I would much rather be a "graduated riding school owner" thanks very much.  I found the answers on this thread to be quite shocking, and I'd rather stick with my scruffy little ponies of no quality than have a horse of quality and be up my own a*se, which in my opinion is how you have all shown yourselves to be.


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## trottingon (25 March 2012)

mountainview22 said:



			Those knee pads are for nothing more than sliding across wooden floors, y'know, like when your ten years old at your best mates birthday disco and your have to see who can skid the furthest?

Or Is that another ginger finger "thing"? 

*runs off chuckling*
		
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Oh I wish I was good at icons!!!!  You're quite witty for a Taffy - am I allowed to say that or is it both opinionated and racist???


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## mountainview22 (25 March 2012)

Fidley, I assure you, what has been displayed here Is the minority of bitter, big headed ballooned ego side of Welsh showing.

I personally don't show. I look after various showing welshies, I'm willing to pm names if you wish, and I assure you, we participate for the day out alone.

We've won some big ones, and lost some big shows, at the end of the day, you'll find us at the bar!

The only reason you have not witnessed the down to earth hard working Welsh owners is simple, were too busy with the horses to come on here and beat everyone down.

Yes, people do Piss about with organic matter, whips, bags and anything else that would frankly scare the **** out of me had it taken me by surprise.

This does happen in all sports, I'm not agreeing with it, but it does happen.

Stewards, judges etc. have.no excuse for not seeing this,.after all, why else would a steward be at the show ground? 

Unfortunately bad points always last longer in the public eye than good points. I assure you, and will stick to my word, join us at the royal Welsh and I can guarantee, you will see the other side of the showing. 

I know it doesn't mean a great deal, but I for one feel utterly embarrassed and disgusted at how our image is being portrayed and how only the wicked competitive side is having their say. I apologise for what you've read and how we must appear, but this is not what we're all about.


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## mountainview22 (25 March 2012)

Trotty, I do try lol.

Call me what you like, I give as good as I get most of the time and generally try not to shout the whole "racist" card too much 

Where the hell is east angular (sp?) Too? Lol


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## Amaranta (25 March 2012)

mountainview22 said:



			Trotty, I do try lol.

Call me what you like, I give as good as I get most of the time and generally try not to shout the whole "racist" card too much 

Where the hell is east angular (sp?) Too? Lol
		
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Anglia MV Anglia 

Cambridge  not that East Anglia is in Cambridge but Cambridge is in East Anglia


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## mountainview22 (25 March 2012)

Right, back the the point of welshies being the equivalent damp firework, what the hell does that mean.

Are you from Cambridge?

Is east angular (it sounds better spelt like that ) in Cambridge or visa versa?

*sits down for a fag and head scratch*


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## fidleyspromise (25 March 2012)

mountainview22 said:



			Fidley, I assure you, what has been displayed here Is the minority of bitter, big headed ballooned ego side of Welsh showing.

*that's a relief as it was getting very aggressive in here with them*

I personally don't show. I look after various showing welshies, I'm willing to pm names if you wish, and I assure you, we participate for the day out alone.

We've won some big ones, and lost some big shows, at the end of the day, you'll find us at the bar!

*This is much the way I look at viewing and competing.  I take my horses out for experience and if they get a ribbon, fab, if not, they gained valuable experience as did I.  It is nice to hear that not all Welshie owners/handlers are as intimidating as those earlier in the thread proved to be.*

The only reason you have not witnessed the down to earth hard working Welsh owners is simple, were too busy with the horses to come on here and beat everyone down.

Yes, people do Piss about with organic matter, whips, bags and anything else that would frankly scare the **** out of me had it taken me by surprise.

This does happen in all sports, I'm not agreeing with it, but it does happen.

* I think we can all agree that we have seen dispicable things across all of the disciplines but to see some (as appeared to be the case earlier on in the thread) actually condoning some of these practices is what makes it particularly bad.*

Stewards, judges etc. have.no excuse for not seeing this,.after all, why else would a steward be at the show ground? 

Unfortunately bad points always last longer in the public eye than good points. I assure you, and will stick to my word, join us at the royal Welsh and I can guarantee, you will see the other side of the showing. 

I know it doesn't mean a great deal, but I for one feel utterly embarrassed and disgusted at how our image is being portrayed and how only the wicked competitive side is having their say. I apologise for what you've read and how we must appear, but this is not what we're all about.
		
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It does make a big difference to see someone such as yourself actually come in and explain in a calm manner as well as hearing in the tone of your posts the passion you have in the Welshies and how you feel regarding the practices and attitudes of others.    If I can manage it, I will take you up on your offer as I do love watching Natives move.


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## mountainview22 (25 March 2012)

Honestly, we're not all bad. I promise 

When you say natives moving I assume you mean drunken welshies on the way back to the lorry for the night?
 just pulling your leg.


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## icy (25 March 2012)

mountainview22 said:



			Icy, calm down. If someone annoys you on here let it lie, it will annoy them more.

No need to invite people for a brawl. 

I'm not having a go, but it leaves you looking the bad egg posting things like the above.
		
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Sorry but i never invited anyone for a brawl ! just an invite to speak on phone or face to face as it appears if anyone misses the slightest punctuation or wrong spelling here, gets insulted and postings misunderstood, i have not insulted anyone just written facts ! and i do not think it is fair for some of the names exhibitors/owners have been called on here ~ "trollops" , "yobs with cobs" ,"illiterate" "chavs" and they were from people supporting this thread ! i totally agree that there are clear issues that need addressing , but by not reporting incidents at the show will not help solve these issues , my own interest in this post is not who is best at typing skills ! but the welfare regarding the horses and it will remain so ! and yes i was at Towerlands and i felt the show was superbly run, i am signing out now as i have a very unwell friend visiting and she is far more important to give my time too x


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## chad n cory1 (25 March 2012)

BossHoss said:



			Hmmm... having a good moan are we? 
Hiding behind usernames making us invincible?
Well - how about saying it to our faces? 
I'm sure most horse owners appreciate constructive criticism - when the person giving it has a valid point!
Next time you see something at a show that bothers you (and this may seem like a CRAZY idea to some of you) - SAY SOMETHING TO THE ORGANISERS/STEWARDS/JUDGES/OWNERS/HANDLERS !  
Its all very well having a whinge and moan anonymously on here - if you're so sure of your convictions - why not say it outright? 

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what a speech you are 200 percent wright


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## chad n cory1 (25 March 2012)

NinjaPony said:



			No, it is dangerous, ridiculous and does nothing to the ponies looks or mental state. I am never going to a welsh medal show again, after the behaviour I witnessed by owners.
		
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if its so dangerousand ridiculous y does 90 percent of the welsh cob owners do it they cant all be wrong


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## chad n cory1 (25 March 2012)

trottingon said:



			I've just realised I singled you out Markettrader, this was unfair of me.  In my opinion ICY also needs to grow up!

Good night.
		
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sounds like u need to grow up anall


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## Capriole (25 March 2012)

chad n cory1 said:



			if its so dangerousand ridiculous y does 90 percent of the welsh cob owners do it they cant all be wrong
		
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90%!!

a lot worse than I thought from the OPs post then!


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## rockysmum (25 March 2012)

Capriole said:



			90%!!

a lot worse than I thought from the OPs post then!
		
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LOL, thats what I thought, at last we are getting to the truth


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## mountainview22 (25 March 2012)

Omfg, really?

I'll leave they keys for the jcb on the side for anyone else who would like to dig the hole a little deeper.

90% of people do not "do it" (wind horses up I mean 

I have pulled horses from the ring and explained why because of thus silly behaviour.

You want to wind your horses up, not a problem, don't wind mine up putting the horse and jockey/handler in a difficult situation.

If you need aids to pump the animal up take it home and work on it's diet and routine, learn to produce a horse not how to wind the ****er up on the day.


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## Hedgewitch13 (25 March 2012)

It seems some people don't know when to stop digging though...

90%?? And you still think that abuse is fine? By the way can you show me where you got that figure from too?


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## mountainview22 (25 March 2012)

The figure came from the same person that informed that poster that's it is fine to do these stupid acts.

I'm still shocked at what the horse world is coming to...


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## rockysmum (25 March 2012)

Dont you just love this forum

The Op posted a rant, we all do it, everyone would have forgotten about it already.

We suddenly aquire new members trying to defend the practice, admit that its worse than the OP thought, now the thread goes on forever and attracts a lot more attention.

Agree about the JCB, although I dont think they need one, their mouths are doing a great job.


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## mountainview22 (25 March 2012)

I'll agree to the rockysmum, but unfortunatly I'll fight to the end as far as "yobs with cobs" etc. is concerned.

We are not all as forementioned, 90% of us are legit and the remaining 10% are teenagers with a big quiet stallion that have no idea how to produce for the show ring so use our thuggish mates to chase it around with last nights beer cans (as they we're more than likley kicked out of the bar for being *****) and the bags those cans we're bought with.

again, the minority of brain dead ego concious all seem to appear in the wrong place at the wrong time.


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## rockysmum (25 March 2012)

mountainview22 said:



			I'll agree to the rockysmum, but unfortunatly I'll fight to the end as far as "yobs with cobs" etc. is concerned.

We are not all as forementioned, 90% of us are legit and the remaining 10% are teenagers with a big quiet stallion that have no idea how to produce for the show ring so use our thuggish mates to chase it around with last nights beer cans (as they we're more than likley kicked out of the bar for being *****) and the bags those cans we're bought with.

again, the minority of brain dead ego concious all seem to appear in the wrong place at the wrong time.
		
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I'm sure you are right, I've not been to a specialist Welsh show but I'm sure I would have noticed this behaviour as we have done a lot of the big counties.

Our new members are going to love your description of them


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## Shantara (25 March 2012)

chad n cory1 said:



			if its so dangerousand ridiculous y does 90 percent of the welsh cob owners do it they cant all be wrong
		
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Billions of flies eat poop. They can't all be wrong!


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## Ceris Comet (25 March 2012)

Chav n cory1 seem to have disappeared .
Sorry, couldn't resist it !
MV you speak wise words.


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## much-jittering (25 March 2012)

Thankyou HHO, I needed cheering up! Opened this thread without seeing how many replies it had, and then ended up reading the whole thing.

All I can say is I'm glad I don't do PR for the WPCS as I think I'd have gone out and shot myself faced with the 'assistance' that was given by posters who had scented blood and joined to get their tuppenceworth in  Those of you who are involved with Welsh showing who joined purely to refute the OPs views on this thread, if you can honestly read back your posts and think it presents you or the welsh showing community (showing welsh ponies and cobs I mean) in a positive light - you have got to be insane. Some of your posts have done far more to damage my perception of the showing of welsh ponies and cobs that the original thread did, I already knew about the sort of behaviour mentioned by the OP - I was shocked the first time I came across it too - but I didn't know about the pack mentality and bitchiness that was underlying. Coming on and slating the poster for being down the bottom of the line up, well if the line up didn't have a bottom end you wouldn't have a show. It's the people who pay their entries and turn up and make the classes a decent size that give the show a decent income so you can have nice prize money and decent rosettes and sashes. If you ever shown at any level at all you'll know that some days you're one end of the line and some you're the other, I can't believe you've all won everything you've ever been in. If you have, see you at HOYS as you must have some cracking horses.


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## cambrica (25 March 2012)

Mountainview as your name suggests you are a breath of fresh air from the Welshie world. 
Luckily I have very broad shoulders so such arrogance and bullying from the three 'not so wise' monkeys is water off a ducks back. As for coming 3rd, crikey 'grow up' if I was placed higher it would have been a waste as I had less than an hour to be elsewhere. Not a rib in sight on him but NO I refuse to supersize him for a red rosette.
If slating me, my horse and the stud I bought him from is your best then I don't really have much to worry about. 
Im hiding from no one, you know who I am and know the cob I proudly own. If not refer to your schedule.
One thing I will put straight are comments made by the monkeys regarding my apparent views. 
1/ There are many Welsh owners/studs that I have the utmost respect for. Their pleasantness, helpfulness, the horses they produce and the way they are shown.
2/ The event organisers I know work hard to put on this show and for that I congratulate them.

There is nothing I have posted that is untrue and not witnessed by others. It seems though that such behaviour is acceptable at these shows in which case what good would complaining do? I asked the bag waving man screaming obsceneties at his horse to not do it whilst I tried to pass but was totally blanked/ignored, this was in full view of the judge and steward so as an 'outsider' what more could I assume than that this is acceptable.

Seems as though the three monkeys have opened the eyes of many people and my point needs not be proved any further.


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## mountainview22 (25 March 2012)

I'd just put this one to the back of your mind. There are idiots, some posting here and providing entertainment. But the majority are professional and good with the animals.

Can I just ask, what stud was your horse from?

Don't answer if you don't want to.


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## cambrica (25 March 2012)

Thanks MV. I know what your saying is true which is all the reasons I wanted to show in the first place. Call me naive but this kind of behaviour I never imagined happened. Yes I've had my moans like everyone else about others behaviour at shows but this was something else!
Haven't wanted to bring the stud's name into it as I have never met such an honest knowledgable man to whom every word he say's I take on board. Click on my profile and you will see. Just don't want it brought into this thread.


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## mountainview22 (25 March 2012)

It shocked me too. When I was explained gingering I laughed, only to be told it was genuine.

Not a problem, I'm on mobile so can't get your profile details up unfortunately. if you have 5 and don't mind doing so could you pm me?

Cheers.


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## SO1 (25 March 2012)

But didnt you say in a previous post that none of the things the OP saw happened, yet you now say there were some incidents and they were dealt with?



icy said:



			The culture of welsh cob showing is very different from the other native breeds and I think people do have a problem understanding. Could someone who feels that bags on whips and stones in bottles do not startle or surprise the horse explain how they work. I can understand if you put something that makes a rusley sound like a sweet wrapper in your pocket it might gain your horses attention as they might think they are having a treat but a bag on stick how does it work?

I have heard of stones in bottles being used to "cure" horses who napp in the ring (not just in showing but sj etc) as at home people hit the horse and then rattle the stones at the same time and so when you go out to a show you then only need to rattle the stones by the ringside and they think they are going to get hit so go forward.

I would be surprised if the OP did make up what she saw even if she did not do as well as she had hoped. If these things don't happen in welsh showing then why do people always presume they do, and why only welsh showing why not for example do people not make things up about new forest showing?

It is a shame that the WPCS don't try and make their shows more welcoming to those who are new to the scene, if they know the traditional behaviour of people at the shows is found intimidating and difficult to understand to outsiders it could put people off buying the welsh ponies and with the recession on the breeders will need people from outside the clique to buy and think that they are not being ripped off or unwelcome. I would also say the same applies to all the breed societies who should be encouraging new people to get involved to increase their membership.
		
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## help111 (25 March 2012)

mountainview22 sorry I hate cats, much prefer Jack Russells, they chase cats.  I'm obviously not who you think I am.

Cambrica can you confirm that it was you at the HCWPCA show at the end of January that needed assistance from the aforementioned Cob chav-thugs to put your pony's halter on correctly as it was upside down?  Didnt bitch about them then.
Anyone else Cambrica's cob is called Parc Roberto. The results for Towerlnds show are published on the web...  
There now if that offends, pull the thread off and we'll all go away.


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## mountainview22 (25 March 2012)

Hmm. Now you've said that as a newbie I'm even more suspicious.

As far as halters being upside down... I've been using cheap rope halters for 5 years plus, I still can't put the bloody things on right first time every time.

And, would you believe, I was born without knowledge falling out of my arse alongside cambrica. Obviously seems you are the one to come too.

Out of interest,.what we're you showing that day?

Where we're you placed?

Not that it matters what either of those answers are, but OP had the *******s to walk into the ring with that horse. That in itself is worth more than any prize.

Cambrica has pm'd me her horses name, not that it mattered, I wanted to know if I knew the stud. 

Oh, did the chavs put they're beers down before altering the halter? I hope so


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## mountainview22 (25 March 2012)

SO1, it's a shame wpcs can't be given the names of the dopes coming in here giving us a bad name. 

I'm sure eliminating such scum from the showing world would solve alot of problems.


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## cambrica (25 March 2012)

help111 said:



			mountainview22 sorry I hate cats, much prefer Jack Russells, they chase cats.  I'm obviously not who you think I am.

Cambrica can you confirm that it was you at the HCWPCA show at the end of January that needed assistance from the aforementioned Cob chav-thugs to put your pony's halter on correctly as it was upside down?  Didnt bitch about them then.
Anyone else Cambrica's cob is called Parc Roberto. The results for Towerlnds show are published on the web...  
There now if that offends, pull the thread off and we'll all go away.
		
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Ooh Touche'
Now we have a 4th Monkey! 
As far as i'm aware you can't put a rope halter on upside down? So no it wasn't, all I tried to do was loop the lead part through the ring to make it feel more secure. The two people that helped I would not have classed as that at all, they would most certainly have been in the most helpful and friendly catagory. I have no idea if they were at Towerlands as I certainly didn't see them there. 
So please out of interest enlighten me as to what stud you are from? My guess is we'll never know.


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## mountainview22 (25 March 2012)

Stud?

There not from a stud.

They're the idiot on the ringside with a carrier bag screaming God knows what. 

Please, if you are a reputable stud, let me know, I'll eat my words.


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## lledrith (25 March 2012)

Oh dear, this is going from bad to worse...


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## cambrica (25 March 2012)

Now everyone can see my super skinny underfed welsh sec d -


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## DragonSlayer (25 March 2012)

Well flip....

Am I glad I don't dabble in the showing world...

BUT then it would be blinkered of me to say this puts the showing world in a bad light because as we all know, there is good and bad in ALL walks of society.

The bile, hatred and nastiness on this thread has been pretty eye-opening. 

I'll stick with what I know, and that's loving my horses for what the are, not what awards they can bring me home.


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## lledrith (25 March 2012)

I have to admit that my immediate impression from the first picture is that the pony needs his feet trimmed.

I don't think anyone is being horrible to you, I just think it is being pointed out that to avoid being at the end of the line there is a lot more involved than just fattening and scaring the life out of your pony... Production is an art form and something that isn't achieved overnight. There is a reason why people pay for producers to help them achieve what they probably couldn't achieve without them - not because the pony isn't good enough but because production is about knowledge & good judgement. Sarcastic posts and images of your pony do nothing to help your credibility - for the record Parc Welsh Flyer is one of my all time favourite cobs. 

It is obvious that not everyone achieves their success from using unsatisfactory methods, so to say that everyone on this thread is a Welsh yob or doesn't come from a successful stud is complete nonsense.

I am guessing that despite this thread being in place and despite being able to identify the perpetrators of the alleged acts of cruelty that you still haven't made your complaint to the show organiser?


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## Ceris Comet (25 March 2012)

Wow ! What a beauty !
Lucky girl !


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## cambrica (25 March 2012)

DragonSlayer said:








 

Well flip....

Am I glad I don't dabble in the showing world...

BUT then it would be blinkered of me to say this puts the showing world in a bad light because as we all know, there is good and bad in ALL walks of society.

The bile, hatred and nastiness on this thread has been pretty eye-opening. 

I'll stick with what I know, and that's loving my horses for what the are, not what awards they can bring me home.
		
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TBH I feel I've opened a can of worms and fallen head first into a vipers nest. Only been to 2 shows to give him some experience. Nobody would buy a gelding with the intention of taking inhand showing seriously so awards are to me not what its about. Bought him as a future riding cob for myself & my daughter. To me he is one of those horses of a lifetime. Love him dearly.


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## HappyHorses:) (25 March 2012)

Mountainview22. I think you are great. You have said what I said back on page 3 of this thread! It should be about people being proud of their horses and enjoying showing them off without being ridiculed. 

As for market trader, think you need some anger manegment mate. How about you stop hiding behind your username then? You know the op and her horse. She's never tried to hide who she is has she?

An open forum is just that, why people have been so aggressive on this post is beond me. This forum is always talking about overfeeding horses, the way people show, ride and manage their horses etc it's a blooming forum for gods sake! 

As someone who was there myself I know what I saw. 
Did I see anyone hitting there pony in the face? No I personally didn't. A few people winding there ponies up in the warm up with whips with plastic bags on the end and rattles? Yes and more than one but they were in the minority from what I saw. Did I say anything to them? no, I was too busy trying to calm my horse down from them winding him up. We have all seen this at welsh shows, not just this one.

As I said before there are good n bad at all shows in all disciplins.


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## rockysmum (25 March 2012)

Well one positive thing has come out of this.  I along with a lot of other people who have probably never watched Welsh showing, will be actively searching out the "Yobs with cobs" this year


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## BossHoss (25 March 2012)

Can I just say, as an A/A* student myself, and a proud welsh cob owner who also shows them, (and I'm sure I speak for many here) I DO NOT appreciate being referred to as :
> Illiterate
> Yobs with cobs
> Chavs
> Thugs
> Agressive
> Bolshy 
> Scum
and other such obscenities.
To those who have taken it upon themselves to become "Grammar Nazis" :
Please stop and think for a minute before you post - you may well be discriminating there - for all anyone knows that person who is "Illiterate" to you may well have learning difficulties (FYI - I'm not saying anyone in this thread does - but it wouldn't hurt to stop and think) 
This thread is appalling - the abuse getting hurled in both directions is underhand and downright rude! There are exaggerations flying left, right and centre which are doing nothing in the way of helping the situation.


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## BossHoss (25 March 2012)

rockysmum said:



			Well one positive thing has come out of this.  I along with a lot of other people who have probably never watched Welsh showing, will be actively searching out the "Yobs with cobs" this year   

Click to expand...

THIS BEGS THE QUESTION - 

If you do not normally watch Welsh Showing - WHAT THE **** ARE YOU COMMENTING ON THIS THREAD FOR?!?! 

Just sayin'


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## rockysmum (25 March 2012)

BossHoss said:



			THIS BEGS THE QUESTION - 

If you do not normally watch Welsh Showing - WHAT THE **** ARE YOU COMMENTING ON THIS THREAD FOR?!?! 

Just sayin' 

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Feel free

Dam all else of interest this weekend.  In other words I'm bored and you lot are very very funny   

I also feel very very sorry for Cambrica and her beautiful lad

No need for this kind of abuse.


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## cambrica (25 March 2012)

lledrith said:



			I have to admit that my immediate impression from the first picture is that the pony needs his feet trimmed.

I don't think anyone is being horrible to you, I just think it is being pointed out that to avoid being at the end of the line there is a lot more involved than just fattening and scaring the life out of your pony... Production is an art form and something that isn't achieved overnight. There is a reason why people pay for producers to help them achieve what they probably couldn't achieve without them - not because the pony isn't good enough but because production is about knowledge & good judgement. Sarcastic posts and images of your pony do nothing to help your credibility - for the record Parc Welsh Flyer is one of my all time favourite cobs. 

It is obvious that not everyone achieves their success from using unsatisfactory methods, so to say that everyone on this thread is a Welsh yob or doesn't come from a successful stud is complete nonsense.
***end QUOTE*** Sorry deleted that bit

His feet are trimmed I've only owned him 2 mths and that was taken just before I bought him! See even now your finding faults with him!!!! If you read my last post you will understand that success is not what this is about for me. 
I have been far less sarcastic than the personal abuse that has been hurled at me. You say nobody is being horrible to me ? WTF
What on earth is the point of complaining, to get a refund - no they can keep my money, to get rid of that particular element - that will never happen and all I can forsee for the future of Welsh showing is that its going to get alot worse before it gets better. Do you honestly think that I am stupid enough to own a horse 2 months and go to a Silver medal show and win it? 
So now I've had the p*ss taken out of me for my 1st show, 2nd show, horse laughed at whilst I stood there last week with my family & friends listening to the foulist language, horses whipped on the face, total anti-social behaviour by yes a number of people that do not deserve to own so much as a rocking horse. Again I add this was not the majority.
		
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## HappyHorses:) (25 March 2012)

lledrith said:



			I am guessing that despite this thread being in place and despite being able to identify the perpetrators of the alleged acts of cruelty that you still haven't made your complaint to the show organiser?
		
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I belive the wpcs is being made aware of this thread.


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## Beausmate (25 March 2012)

Well this is all very exciting.  

I don't do showing of any kind, so unbiased view?  Maybe.  I also don't know anyone on here.

There are some people on here-new members most of them, who have some of the worst attitudes I have come across in a long time.

If you are happy with the way these shows are run and you don't see any problems, why the hell are you so damned defensive?  The OP made an observation as to what happened at the show she attended, no names were mentioned.  She did however, say well done to the organisers and the judge.

I know who's being unreasonable here, and it's not the OP.


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## cambrica (25 March 2012)

Ceris Comet said:



			Wow ! What a beauty !
Lucky girl !
		
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Thank you That deserves my first big smilie on this thread. Oh what the hell here's another one


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## mountainview22 (25 March 2012)

Bosshoss, I'm afraid I will be underhand and down right rude when "the other side" are jeopardising not just their animals welfare but my animals and handlers.

There is no need to practice any of these underhand measures.to win a class. Simple.

I am niether here more there as to what people do with they're animals. But I'll tell you now, hell will freeze.over before I believe shoving organic.matters up a horses jacksie or waving bags behind them will produce a winning horse.

As a handler yourself (I'm assuming) you will surely realise, this is not how you produce a cob, and I will be very uncomfortable if you believe that I am incorrect.

I am not personally attacking.any of the half whit scum that are rubbing wpcs and the fair playing associates such as myself and yourself in the mud.

I for one will not participate in ANY of the forementioned activities. A cob either has it or it doesn't. No matter what stallion and mare it came from.


Cambrica, as I said before, you walked into the ring, something I won't do. Your a bigger person than me.

You only needed to state that you we're not responsible for the horse when the first photo was taken. The person commenting on foot condition was not to know it was your responsibility at the time.

I stick by the fact we are not all competitive aggressive people.  It Is the taking part that counts. The fact you've out your horse in the public eye. The Knowledge and possible constructive criticism you will recieve.

I really do feel ashamed of the reputation we have.


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## Ceris Comet (25 March 2012)

Your welcome cambrica ! And thankyou for bringing this issue to light.


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## Amaranta (25 March 2012)

lledrith said:



			I have to admit that my immediate impression from the first picture is that the pony needs his feet trimmed.

I don't think anyone is being horrible to you, I just think it is being pointed out that to avoid being at the end of the line there is a lot more involved than just fattening and scaring the life out of your pony... Production is an art form and something that isn't achieved overnight. There is a reason why people pay for producers to help them achieve what they probably couldn't achieve without them - not because the pony isn't good enough but because production is about knowledge & good judgement. Sarcastic posts and images of your pony do nothing to help your credibility - for the record Parc Welsh Flyer is one of my all time favourite cobs. 

It is obvious that not everyone achieves their success from using unsatisfactory methods, so to say that everyone on this thread is a Welsh yob or doesn't come from a successful stud is complete nonsense.

I am guessing that despite this thread being in place and despite being able to identify the perpetrators of the alleged acts of cruelty that you still haven't made your complaint to the show organiser?
		
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Really?  Have you not read the very personal insults hurled at the OP?  Are you reading the right thread?

Yes, showing is an art, been there, that is not the issue being raised, the issue is the behaviour of some of the competitors.  Having watched many a WPCA Show (albeit many moons ago) there has always been this element, I found it distasteful then and I still do.  There are many many nice people who show welsh cobs, some of them are friends of mine, but there is no doubt that there is also an element who care about nothing but winning at all costs, the horse is secondary to these people, and one who does not win is quickly sold on and replaced by one who will.

Some of the comments from WPCA members on this thread just confirm everything that is bad about the welsh showing fraternity, I KNOW not all are like this but many people reading this will think that they speak for all welsh showing enthusiasts.  By denying their bad behaviour, you are condoning it.


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## lledrith (25 March 2012)

I think if the WPCS are being made aware of this post then the first questions they will ask is if a complaint was made at the time, who it was made to and was the complaint upheld. The reason why I keep coming back to this is because despite feeling as if nothing will get done correct procedure in these scenarios must be followed - then and only then would you have grounds to shout it from the rooftops that an injustice has been done. 

As it stands, there is no evidence and no official complaint has been made in any capacity...

I was not finding fault in your pony, but his feet do look long and unbalanced in the first picture, yes. Did I know that you didn't own him then, no I didn't, it was merely an observation.

I understand that you love your pony, we all do, which is why people feel so strongly in circumstances such as these. Enjoy your pony, if you feel that breed shows aren't for you there are plenty of other shows that you can go to where you won't encounter the atmosphere that has put you off in the first place, but if you do decide to persevere, there are several WPCS Associations surrounding you that are run by dedicated members who are approachable and helpful and who I am sure would be happy to assist & encourage you at any of their shows.


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## rockysmum (25 March 2012)

lledrith said:



			I think if the WPCS are being made aware of this post then the first questions they will ask is if a complaint was made at the time, who it was made to and was the complaint upheld. The reason why I keep coming back to this is because despite feeling as if nothing will get done correct procedure in these scenarios must be followed - then and only then would you have grounds to shout it from the rooftops that an injustice has been done. 

As it stands, there is no evidence and no official complaint has been made in any capacity...

.
		
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If everyone has seen these practices I find it hard to believe the authorities have not.  One would assume they actually attend these shows.

A decent society will take action even if an official complaint is not made at the time.

I actually wrote to CHAPS about something I witnessed at the championships, which was not against the rules at the time, but I thought was wrong.  They agreed and re-wrote the rules for the following year.


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## Ceris Comet (25 March 2012)

I believe that op hasn't made an official complaint due to the fact that there would be no point as officials where turning a blind eye


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## rockysmum (25 March 2012)

Ceris Comet said:



			I believe that op hasn't made an official complaint due to the fact that there would be no point as officials where turning a blind eye
		
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Oh dear, they wont like reading this thread then.  I hadn't realised she meant the officials of the society.  I thought it was just the organisors of the shows.


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## Amaranta (25 March 2012)

rockysmum said:



			If everyone has seen these practices I find it hard to believe the authorities have not.  One would assume they actually attend these shows.

A decent society will take action even if an official complaint is not made at the time.

I actually wrote to CHAPS about something I witnessed at the championships, which was not against the rules at the time, but I thought was wrong.  They agreed and re-wrote the rules for the following year.
		
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Quite, by doing nothing the officials/stewards are giving it the green light, it should not be based purely on official complaints as other competitors, quite rightly, feel intimidated by those acting in this way.  The welsh showing world is very small and anyone complaining would be ostracised.


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## Ceris Comet (25 March 2012)

Meant people officiating at the show Rockysmum


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## rockysmum (25 March 2012)

Amaranta said:



			The welsh showing world is very small and anyone complaining would be ostracised.
		
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I think Cambrica has discovered that.  Disgusting behaviour by some people on here, I really feel for her.


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## HappyHorses:) (25 March 2012)

rockysmum said:



			If everyone has seen these practices I find it hard to believe the authorities have not.  One would assume they actually attend these shows.

A decent society will take action even if an official complaint is not made at the time.

I actually wrote to CHAPS about something I witnessed at the championships, which was not against the rules at the time, but I thought was wrong.  They agreed and re-wrote the rules for the following year.
		
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This. There have been a few eyebrow raising statments made from some of the newer members on here about certain showing practices that I'm sure the wpcs would not be best pleased with.


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## BossHoss (26 March 2012)

mountainview22 said:



			Bosshoss, I'm afraid I will be underhand and down right rude when "the other side" are jeopardising not just their animals welfare but my animals and handlers.

There is no need to practice any of these underhand measures.to win a class. Simple.

I am niether here more there as to what people do with they're animals. But I'll tell you now, hell will freeze.over before I believe shoving organic.matters up a horses jacksie or waving bags behind them will produce a winning horse.

As a handler yourself (I'm assuming) you will surely realise, this is not how you produce a cob, and I will be very uncomfortable if you believe that I am incorrect.

I am not personally attacking.any of the half whit scum that are rubbing wpcs and the fair playing associates such as myself and yourself in the mud.

I for one will not participate in ANY of the forementioned activities. A cob either has it or it doesn't. No matter what stallion and mare it came from.


Cambrica, as I said before, *you walked into the ring, something I won't do*. Your a bigger person than me.

You only needed to state that you we're not responsible for the horse when the first photo was taken. The person commenting on foot condition was not to know it was your responsibility at the time.

I stick by the fact we are not all competitive aggressive people.  It Is the taking part that counts. The fact you've out your horse in the public eye. The Knowledge and possible constructive criticism you will recieve.

*I really do feel ashamed of the reputation we have*.
		
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Immature much? - "the other side" - what are we, 5??  
"Half whit scum" - Wow! How prejudiced, stereotyping and completely uncalled for? 
However I agree that a cob either has it or doesn't - the problem arises when people get "stars in their eyes" and jump in out of their depth, with a horse that is (to the trained eye) quite unready for a show of such calibre! 

If you won't go in the ring - why is it your reputation? 

For the record I am:
An owner
Rider
Occasional handler (I'd rather pay the "Yobs with Cobs" to run mine - they're faster than me  )
Riding Instructor 
& Groom
I have shown all manner from Veterans to Cobs to Working Hunters with much success - don't tell me how to suck eggs m'dear, it doesn't go down too well


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## Amaranta (26 March 2012)

BossHoss said:



			Immature much? - "the other side" - what are we, 5??  
"Half whit scum" - Wow! How prejudiced, stereotyping and completely uncalled for? 
However I agree that a cob either has it or doesn't - the problem arises when people get "stars in their eyes" and jump in out of their depth, with a horse that is (to the trained eye) quite unready for a show of such calibre! 

If you won't go in the ring - why is it your reputation? 

For the record I am:
An owner
Rider
Occasional handler (I'd rather pay the "Yobs with Cobs" to run mine - they're faster than me  )
Riding Instructor 
& Groom
I have shown all manner from Veterans to Cobs to Working Hunters with much success - don't tell me how to suck eggs m'dear, it doesn't go down too well 

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TBF Bosshoss some of the new posters have really let the side down, now, both you and I know that not all welsh producers are like these people but, sadly, they did nothing to dispel any allegations that were made, on the contrary they confirmed that it went on and that it was 'normal practice'.

Do you really think it is OK to 'ginger' a horse?


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## cambrica (26 March 2012)

BossHoss said:



			Immature much? - "the other side" - what are we, 5??  
"Half whit scum" - Wow! How prejudiced, stereotyping and completely uncalled for? 
However I agree that a cob either has it or doesn't - the problem arises when people get "stars in their eyes" and jump in out of their depth, with a horse that is (to the trained eye) quite unready for a show of such calibre! 

If you won't go in the ring - why is it your reputation? 

For the record I am:
An owner
Rider
Occasional handler (I'd rather pay the "Yobs with Cobs" to run mine - they're faster than me  )
Riding Instructor 
& Groom
I have shown all manner from Veterans to Cobs to Working Hunters with much success - don't tell me how to suck eggs m'dear, it doesn't go down too well 

Click to expand...

Well if your a spokeman/woman for the attitude of the Welsh community I sincerely hope that the organisers of any silver medal shows in future put on the front of their schedule:

'PLEASE BE AWARE THAT ANY COMPETITOR WHO DOES NOT HAVE A COB OF THE HIGHEST CALIBRE IS NOT WELCOME AT A SHOW OF THIS STATURE. PLEASE ALSO BE AWARE THAT IF YOU FIND ANY OF THE FOLLOWING OFFENSIVE OUR ADVISE WOULD BE TO STAY AWAY: WHIPPING OF HORSES, GINGERING UP, BAGS, RATTLES AND THE FOULEST LANGUAGE'.

That way people like myself with my perfectly well behaved cob will never make the same mistake again.

Highlands, Dartmoors, Exmoors, New Forest, Fell, Dales, Shetlands and any other native breed - Think yourselves very fortunate indeed !


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## BossHoss (26 March 2012)

cambrica said:



			Well if your a spokeman/woman for the attitude of the Welsh community I sincerely hope that the organisers of any silver medal shows in future put on the front of their schedule:

'PLEASE BE AWARE THAT ANY COMPETITOR WHO DOES NOT HAVE A COB OF THE HIGHEST CALIBRE IS NOT WELCOME AT A SHOW OF THIS STATURE. PLEASE ALSO BE AWARE THAT IF YOU FIND ANY OF THE FOLLOWING OFFENSIVE OUR ADVISE WOULD BE TO STAY AWAY: WHIPPING OF HORSES, GINGERING UP, BAGS, RATTLES AND THE FOULEST LANGUAGE'.

*That way people like myself with my perfectly well behaved cob will never make the same mistake again.*

Highlands, Dartmoors, Exmoors, New Forest, Fell, Dales, Shetlands and any other native breed - Think yourselves very fortunate indeed !
		
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*Are you insinuating that my cobs are not well behaved? I find that a little rude - especially as you do not know me!*

And my advice would be to start at the bottom like the rest of us - I started out just doing local club shows until the horse had perfected them, then went to County level and on to National Level. 
I always ask the opinions of other producers as to my horses before they leave the yard and even then they don't go anywhere unless I am 100% happy that they can stand up with the best of them. 
I don't agree with some practices in showing - but each to their own - I find it quite satisfying knowing I do things by the book and am still able to win hands down  
I have a 30yrold gelding who wins every time, I am constantly met with disbelief that he is so old, and frequently asked what his stud fee is, or how he's bred! He is proof to me that with proper care and practice you can still win. (I have owned him for 14 years and known him all my life)


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## Yoda (26 March 2012)

Cambrica, I can't understand how you are still complaining about animal abuse at the show but STILL havent lodged an official complaint?
  For the record, the chief show official is a 5ft nothing, well spoken lady who would of taken any complaint seriously. To say they are not impartial is just an excuse, and not a good one at that. Also, if you felt intimidated at the show why did you not email, ring or write a letter to the show officials? 
  I also like the way you have stated on here that you won't be taking your "perfectly well behaved cob" to welsh shows but on another forum you have stated that your cob at hcwpca was badly behaved? Is someone playing to a audience??


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## cambrica (26 March 2012)

BossHoss said:



*Are you insinuating that my cobs are not well behaved? I find that a little rude - especially as you do not know me!*

And my advice would be to start at the bottom like the rest of us - I started out just doing local club shows until the horse had perfected them, then went to County level and on to National Level. 
I always ask the opinions of other producers as to my horses before they leave the yard and even then they don't go anywhere unless I am 100% happy that they can stand up with the best of them. 
I don't agree with some practices in showing - but each to their own - I find it quite satisfying knowing I do things by the book and am still able to win hands down  
I have a 30yrold gelding who wins every time, I am constantly met with disbelief that he is so old, and frequently asked what his stud fee is, or how he's bred! He is proof to me that with proper care and practice you can still win. (I have owned him for 14 years and known him all my life) 

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Bosshoss. I am insinauting nothing of the kind. I don't know you from Adam and don't know your horses. Congratulations on your 30yr old, please don't take that the wrong way - I mean it sincerely. It was the part you said novices shouldn't attend. I went as it is on my doorstep, literally.

YODA. At HWPCA he behaved badly, but by no means out of hand, it was his first show and unfortunately the only one in his class. In the championship he was fine.
*
Now I am saying to everybody that this is my last post on this thread.* Today I had a very long conversation with a lady from a welsh stud. I had offended her for which I was sorry and sincerely she apologised equally. Matters are getting way out of hand and for personal reasons I hope that she saw me for who I really am as I did her. Thanks again - you know who you are 

It seems having started this thread that there are far too many people that have taken personally comments I have made. If you are one of the majority of responsible cob owners who have taken offence I apologise to you also. If you are part of the minority who act in the manner I have been offended by then all I hope is that you look inside and somehow acknowledge this.


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## cymraeg all the way (2 April 2012)

I attended Towerlands and thoroughly enjoyed it so was intrigued by the thread.  Having read through and deliberated on it, I feel I have to post even though I dont usually like doing so.  
Firstly, let us get out of the way the matter of the music playing.  Personally, I liked it.  I feel it added to the atmosphere at the show.  I have ridden ponies as well as a few breeding animals and have always really enjoyed music at, for example PUK, NPS or even HOYS.  I have one especially sharp Section D and have had to work hard to overcome problems at first encountered with sound at shows  he loves to use it as an excuse to lift his tail and shine: a reaction to excitement frowned upon in the ridden.  So if I can do it, so should anyone else in their preparation.  
Secondly, I am a self-confessed softie and am abhorred by any actual act of cruelty.  However, such an act I did not witness at this show.  If such an act did happen, and the original poster was that upset by what she saw, she should have reported it to the show organizer or committee.  I know that the organizer is an extremely approachable, business-like and efficient lady, and would thus have dealt with such a complaint discreetly.  It is too late now for the original poster, but in future, let all those offended by apparent acts of cruelty at shows learn from this and have faith in show organizers  they want their show to be regarded a success for all, not just those fortunate enough to be winners.  The organizers would also have been able to discreetly deal with the issue of children roaming around: a simple announcement may have been sufficient to promote a safer environment.  
More importantly, hardly anyone I know in showing doesnt love their ponies dearly.  Their ponies have brought them, pleasure, joy, and pride as well as heartache and anguish.  Therefore acts of genuinely cruelty must be slim.  I know there are a few who act inappropriately, but delve a little deeper into their showing community and you find most are not respected and few are liked.   Personally, five of the eight ponies we have here have been shown in hand, four of which before being broken to ride, and one of whom having won at Towerlands as a youngster.  It is one of the three who have not been shown in-hand and had received very little handling prior to breaking who is sharpest and most head-shy: a testament surely to the lack of cruelty incurred at the hands of these so called cruel yobs who showed the other four, as well as others who have been stabled here before them.  Granted this is a small sample, but mine is the only experience I can speak of with absolute authority.
It is true that Welsh ponies are often wound up to give a good show, but often such tools as bags arent needed as simply feeling well and being in the company of others at an unfamiliar venue is enough to elicit a magical performanceFor those who have little faith in the breed society, it IS discouraged and they have tried to REDUCE the use of such practices, with shows such as the Royal Welsh and National Welsh and Welsh Partbred Show taking steps to support this.  Please dont counter me on that one as I steward the section Cs at the RWAS and steward at the National Welsh, and thus, have first-hand knowledge of such steps.  The chief organizer of the Towerlands show is heavily involved in the National Welsh show and Im very sure that she would, therefore have taken any complaints seriously and may have been able to at least reduce its use.  But, everyone wants their animal to do their best in competition.  Therefore, I feel it is moderation and tolerance that is called for here, not a total lack of acceptance, so that a compromise can be struck between those encouraging spark and those desiring a calmer atmosphere.  
Next to address is the opinion that Welsh breeders purposely try to con potential newcomers to the breed.  Im sure many breeders from the length and breadth of the entire UK and of a variety of breeds can rightfully be offended by such a notion.  Firstly, it questions the individuals integrity and honesty, as well as their business sense.  After all, the idea is, in the long run, detrimental to their aims in promoting their animals, as few are fooled twice.  Also lets not forget that many of the best Welsh breeders started off elsewhere  the basics of conformation apply to any breed and no first time cob buyer should be dismissed as cluless  so they may have a HOYS hack or a Gold cup winner in their back garden.     
Before becoming hooked on the breed, I knew very few in Welsh showing and have relished getting to know the citizens of the Welsh-World.  I have met many people whom I admire greatly for reasons concerning showing and otherwise, and have made friends whom I hope I shall have for life. I am not a yob, and have met very few yobs who have any real respect.  I am an English teacher: if I were a yob, I would have no job, and neither would 90% of the people I have met.  
Whilst I am not a yob, I am a riding school graduate: we all start somewhere.  I have been last on numerous occasions, but have learnt by watching and asking professionals how to, e.g. trim correctly.  My sister and I are still unlucky from time to time and are definitely still as eager to learn now as we were at the start.  But we have since both had National Welsh Champion, Royal Welsh Champion, ridden Welshies at HOYS and have produced a Lampeter Supreme Champion.  If we can do it, any other riding school graduate can.  So, if Welshies are what you love, pursue them whatever your roots.
Cambrica and others alike, dont be put off showing Welshies at affiliated shows just because you havent liked some of the people involved, you will know now that we are not all like it. You wont have warmed yourself to some of the people at Twerlands and in Wlesh showing with this thread, but you have shown yourself to be essentially a decent person appologising to those you didnt mean to offend.  Mix with those you respect and ask for advice from those you admire until you win the shows you want to, at least thats what I intend to do until I have achieved my goals. 
I hope I dont sound patronizing  I dont mean to be.  I also hope I am punctuated to an acceptable standard.
I wont hide behind anonymity as am not afraid of any Yobs with cobs. 
Beth


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## SusannaF (2 April 2012)

Clearly need a video camera pointed at the crowd at the next show. That would have cleared up a lot of arguments in this thread.


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## Hollyberry (2 April 2012)

markettrader said:



			I have sat and read this thread numerous times over and over again today, to say I am astonished by all the jobsworths who have their opinion about how Welsh Section C's & D's should look and shouldn't look....  Jealousy comes to mind, I remember Cambrica's horse in the ring...  Firstly it was quite clear that you couldn't control your horse maybe you need to enforce a bit of dicipline, Secondly a horse should be able to get it's head in the manger maybe try lowering it so your horse can actually eat!  You expressed your views on "Yobs with Cobs".  All because people with cobs express their appreciation of a GOOD COB in the ring (sorry if we didn't appreciate yours).  You mentioned that you purchased from a good stud in Wales, let me let you into a little secret, when Studs sense that someone with little knowledge wants to come and buy from them, they scrape the bottom of the barrel to sell you the horses that they wouldn't even register if it weren't for the whole micro chipping situation.  When you visited the Royal Welsh you mentioned that you never saw a carrier bag, or a bottle with stones in I find this to be very untrue as 99% of competitors use either one so next time you visit actually observe what is going on around you then maybe you might see the lovely stud you purchased from actually using one of the above to hype their horses up, then you might not be so dissapproving of Yobs With Cobs!!  If you was to visit majority of Studs and visited their fields you would only have to show their horses a carrier bag then you will see that the horses are not frightened or treated cruelly, they stick their tail up and show off, does this sound like a frightened horse because maybe I am wrong (which i doubt) but does a horse flag, prick their ears and show off if they are frightened, ain't it the other way round they generally have their ears flat back and their tail clamped down.    Please any of you's prim and proper horse owners correct me if I am wrong!!...   Regarding the TROLLOP who was seen shaking a whip with a bag on round the children, firstly I think it is highly disrespectful to call someone that who you don't know (maybe you would of got a peice of her mind if you actually told her that on the day hence the reason why you had to air your views on here) Secondly you expressed your views on children running around near the horses, I have read my schedule from that show 3 times and for the life of me I cannot see where it states - Towerlands Welsh Medal Show & Children's Creche.  It is a horse show not a childrens play area so if your children or any other peoples were running around near the horses that says more about the parenting than it actally does about the horse handlers.  I was not competing at the show this year but had a wonderful time, so for you to state that the handlers beat their horses and treated them in a horrid manner i find this hilarious, I have never read such rubbish.  Basically what you and other users on here are saying is that the horses were treated horribly, too fat, scared with bags and bottles etc - you should have opened your eyes and your ears when a horse came in the ring with it's tail up, giving a good show, looked immaculate and in top show condition where was it placed and how were the crowd buzzing , where was your horse standing? and did you get the crowds appreciation Eerm I don't beleive so NO.  As for you commending the organisers and the Judges this was the most fictional part I think you wrote becasue I heard with my own ears the show organiser saying outside the ring when the Section D Stallions were in that there was a lovely atmosphere.  Also the Section D Judge just before the Section D Stallions were about to come in when the music started he was dancing in the ring clapping getting the audience involved enhancing the atmosphere I personally found this amusing and involving as so did most of the crowd, I bet you were one of the spectators who was sitting in the stand not even smiling like you were at a funeral, this says more about you than it does everyone else.  In future I advise all you jobsworths and jealous people to stick to your local shows and leave the WPCA medal shows to those who are more suited unless you can attend without starting World War 3.  As for the person who complained about showing to The Who playing, Towerlands as always had music on during their classes ever since I can remember being  little and going.  Towerlands used to be the first show of the season and was always the one that you got hyped up for mainly becasue of the atmosphere it generated.  Everybody had their concerns with Bury Farm because of the area it is situated, becasue it was going to attract people who have got plums stuck in their mouth giving their very little knowledge and opinions to people who to be quite frank couldn't care less about your opinions as they mean very little.  Regarding the pictures that were posted these clearly show the affection between the horses and their owners so whoever said that the bottom one was cruel then you really need to keep your opinions to yourself because this man is a farrier and dotes on his animals just like the rest of us, just because some use whips and bags does not mean that they are treated badly.  A question for all you's who had an opinion... From my assumptions most of you have ridden horses aswell yes? when you break them do you never use a whip when schooling or use spurs when your horse is not going forward, you can tell everyone on here that you don't but when push comes to shove and your horse ain't going forward  bet the whips and spurs come out in full force to hell with what ever you broadcast on here, I bet your horse don't get a stroke and a polo then, so you's carry on lying to yourselves but beleive me behind closed doors I am not far from the truth am I.  As for criticising someones appearence I know exactly who you are slagging off all becasue they take pride in their appearence does not mean they are a bad person, we all can't look like Riff-Raff, to be honest some people looked like they needed 24 hours soak in the bath i don't see you criticising them or is that becasue the girls who made an effort made you feel a little insecure with yourselves!!.  With regards to the well known family using ginger, if you knew where to get it you would use it aswell, knowledge jealousy is the worst kind because you think you are very knowledgeable but in the end you's are just a riding school graduates.  The above is not just aimed at Cambrica it is aimed at everyone who put their two pennies worth in where it wasn't wanted or needed.   Cambrica you started this thread and to be honest you should have kept your opinions to yourself but no you came on here aired your views and got everyone on the band wagon so any attitude and dissapprovement you or any of the others get is completely expected, in future think before you start a thread slagging people and their horses off because you will get it back 10 times worse from all angles.  I agree there is good and bad in all horsey people but this thread gives people who have welsh horses a bad name and is dissrespectful to the good.  In my opinion people should keep their opinions to themself but becasue you all jumped on the band wagon about Welsh horse owners, you have got to have it i am afraid.  Sometimes people are good at airing what they beleive to be the truth all over the internet but are they big enough to take some back without chucking their toys out their pram.
		
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Blimey someone has pushed someone's buttons!! Nasty, not necessary at all.


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## mulledwhine (2 April 2012)

WOW, all I will say is that you should be able to show your horse/pony without using bottles and bags to get extra out of them


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## m williams (2 October 2012)

I have five welsh sec D's,one is aged 16 the others are all youngsters ,I have shown all of them ....There are several things that I have observed ....I always thought that  these wonderful animals were supposed to have their manes and tails as natural as possible ,I have seen obviously scissored manes and tails shortened to above the hocks ,yearlings with shoes on ,why ? at the Royal welsh show I was in the parade ring next to a very excitable colt ,what shocked me most ,was when the colt showed off a bit too much the handler hit him in a most delicate area with his stick....as for the over weight sec D's, this seems to be the norm in the ring....all mine are a joy to work with even my 2 yr old colt ,with the right treatment and kindness these are ( for me) the best and most versatile breed .


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