# Horse whisperers - do you believe?



## Mongoose11 (7 September 2016)

A girl on our yard had a horse whisperer out yesterday and there is something that just can't be explained as far as I'm concerned. 

Owner said that she went to bring the horse in and on the way back from the field she said to him 'I need you to tell me if you want to stay here or if we should move on'. That's the only thing she wanted to find out from him. 

Horse was put in the stable while whisperer woman stood aside and she turned to my friend and said 'Are you thinking about leaving here? He wants you to know that you don't need this place as a security blanket anymore and he will settle as long as you're with him.' 

How can this be explained? If I had brought my horse in and she had said that to me then it would have made zero sense. My friend was on her own when she went to catch the horse in and was a good 400 meters away from the woman when she spoke to her lad. 

I had this woman out last year and while she told me nothing profound she did know I hadnt ridden for some time. She said that my mare kept showing herself through my eyes, as if I'm always watching and not riding. Again, had she said that to my neighbour then it would have made no sense at all. I had jod boots on, a hat was hanging outside my stable, my Facebook is locked down and we have no mutual friends.

I'm very sceptical but how can it be explained. I'm not stupid, I stayed completely silent during my reading and my friend did nothing but make records while she spoke. 

What do you think? How can the usual cries of 'you give off signals' and 'she reads the person and not the horse' be true? I can't believe that it can be true but then how else can she get these things right. She wasn't vague in any way and it wasn't the only thing that was exactly right, it was just interesting that she answered the very question my friend hoped to have answered.


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## Leo Walker (7 September 2016)

If its the same woman I've seen then I really wasnt impressed. she missed something incredibly major and obvious, well to me at least! The horses owner didnt seem to see it either, so I am completely convinced that she just reads people incredibly well. But maybe I'm just an old cynic who has watched too many episodes of The Mentalist :lol:


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## Mongoose11 (7 September 2016)

FrankieCob said:



			If its the same woman I've seen then I really wasnt impressed. she missed something incredibly major and obvious, well to me at least! The horses owner didnt seem to see it either, so I am completely convinced that she just reads people incredibly well. But maybe I'm just an old cynic who has watched too many episodes of The Mentalist :lol:
		
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Ooh what were her initials?


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## MiJodsR2BlinkinTite (7 September 2016)

A good friend of mine, let's call her Elizabeth (not her real name), a good few years ago now, had the late Julie Dicker out to "read" her horses. She started to "talk" to her old mare. 

She told her things that no-one could ever have possibly have known that had happened with one of the ponies that her daughter had when she was a kid; this old mare had been around then and told her basically what had been the problem with his rearing and general behaviour - this particular horse had had to be PTS and the mare described to Julie the behaviour and what had caused it...... my friend said there was no possible way that anyone could have known the information that was given.

I might add that my friend Elizabeth is the most cynical and down-to-earth practical person you could ever meet, she has a very down to earth approach and isn't remotely open to being manipulated! But she was 101% convinced.


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## Leo Walker (7 September 2016)

Mongoose11 said:



			Ooh what were her initials?
		
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I dont actually know :lol: Dark haired, in her 30s but I'm not good with ages! Average height and build. Turned up on the yard in cut off shorts a tiny vest and sandally shoes!


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## Mongoose11 (7 September 2016)

FrankieCob said:



			I dont actually know :lol: Dark haired, in her 30s but I'm not good with ages! Average height and build. Turned up on the yard in cut off shorts a tiny vest and sandally shoes!
		
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Ah no, not the same lady.


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## jojo5 (7 September 2016)

Soooo......... Anyone recommending anyone that they reall feel has been accurate   ( ducks behind sofa to avoid the barrage of 'rubbish!!', 'phoney' ).


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## mandyroberts (7 September 2016)

I had a horse whisperer to talk to my horse and friends horse. I was cynical so gave nothing away but it was spooky how both horses said things he couldn't have known. Being very factual, my horse told him he had hook on the back right tooth which had been missed on the last dentist check and was bothering him. I had the vet back to check his teeth, was told all fine, are you sure it was right not left,I confirmed and you guess it, they kept looking and found the tooth. Confess I told them he was tilting head and sharp tooth had been the cause before, not that a horse whisperer told me. There were lots of other comments we couldn't explain how he could know. You end up having to believe


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## Micropony (7 September 2016)

I had a horse whisperer see my horse just for a bit of fun really. He'd seen a couple of others on the yard and owners had been quite impressed. I wasn't. Lots of things that should have come up didn't, and the stuff that did was a bit random and unconvincing. The chap gave some advice about flower remedies and homeopathic remedies, supposedly based on what the horse had told him. As soon as horse figured out said homeopathic remedies were not mints he had precisely zero interest. The flower remedies he actively chose to avoid.


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## fburton (8 September 2016)

MiJodsR2BlinkinTite said:



			But she was 101% convinced.
		
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Not 110%? :frown3: Oh well. :biggrin3:

'Fraid I'm 100% skeptical, knowing what is possible in cold reading and how people focus on relevant (but coincidental) detail and ignore the irrelevant and incorrect.


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## Equi (8 September 2016)

Id love to have this done but I wouldn't want to actually pay anything for it cause I think it's a load of tosh lol


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## ycbm (8 September 2016)

Mongoose11 said:



			A girl on our yard had a horse whisperer out yesterday and there is something that just can't be explained as far as I'm concerned. 

Owner said that she went to bring the horse in and on the way back from the field she said to him 'I need you to tell me if you want to stay here or if we should move on'. That's the only thing she wanted to find out from him. 

Horse was put in the stable while whisperer woman stood aside and she turned to my friend and said 'Are ypou thinking about leaving here? He wants you to know that you don't need this place as a security blanket anymore and he will settle as long as you're with him.' 

How can this be explained? If I had brought my horse in and she had said that to me then it would have made zero sense. My friend was on her own when she went to catch the horse in and was a good 400 meters away from the woman when she spoke to her lad. 

I had this woman out last year and while she told me nothing profound she did know I hadnt ridden for some time. She said that my mare kept showing herself through my eyes, as if I'm always watching and not riding. Again, had she said that to my neighbour then it would have made no sense at all. I had jod boots on, a hat was hanging outside my stable, my Facebook is locked down and we have no mutual friends.

I'm very sceptical but how can it be explained. I'm not stupid, I stayed completely silent during my reading and my friend did nothing but make records while she spoke. 

What do you think? How can the usual cries of 'you give off signals' and 'she reads the person and not the horse' be true? I can't believe that it can be true but then how else can she get these things right. She wasn't vague in any way and it wasn't the only thing that was exactly right, it was just interesting that she answered the very question my friend hoped to have answered.
		
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Ask Derren Brown how he does it. If you see his live show in a small theatre you'd never believe in spiritualists or horse whisperers ever again.

I've seen him live on stage (I found his ability sinister and almost frightening) and I've seen him live on TV convince a sceptical bookies clerk at a greyhound track pay out on a ticket for a dog which did not win.


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## ihatework (8 September 2016)

About 3 years ago in a state of desperation I had someone 'speak' to one of my horses on recommendation from my osteopath. I am a scientist by heart and a huge sceptic, still am if truth be told. Anyway horse whisperer came out and did his thing.
I'd say about 90% of what was said was vague and I couldn't confirm truth or disprove - the type of thing you could probably interpret for any horse if you wished.

The remaining 10% was so freaky that there is now a tiny part of me that is a reluctant believer.

I do however believe most people doing this are charlatans. This guy that came to me charged £45. He lived about 60 miles away. He spent approx 45 mins with the horse and came out for two horses. Taking into account travel time and petrol he was pretty much doing the readings for free!


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## scats (8 September 2016)

I don't believe.  For one thing, I'm pretty sure that horses can't speak English, so quite how they tell these whisperers things in such wonderful language I'm not sure.

I watched that Derren Brown program a few years ago where he followed some psychics to either prove or disprove them and at the start of the program I couldn't believe how accurate these people were and I thought that no way could Derren prove that it was all false.  That was until he was able to give completely accurate readings himself to people and then reveal how he did it.

It was a fascinating documentary and I wish I could find it to watch it again.


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## oldie48 (8 September 2016)

I am also a cynic about horse whisperers and spiritualists but many years a friend had a "girly night", few glasses of wine and a lady who read the tarot cards, just a bit of a laugh! She told 2 close friends that someone they knew would have a baby, an unexpected pregnancy that would bring great joy but she didn't say anything to me. We spent time comparing notes and came up with a few people they knew that I didn't. Yes, you've guessed it was me! I was not pregnant at the time, was in my forties, in a relationship but had no plans for children. Said child has just qualified as a doctor and has given me and my, now, husband so much happiness and was, I have to admit, unplanned. Unfortunately the other prediction was not good. She told my best friend that  her (deceased) aunt was concerned for her health. It spooked my friend as her aunt had died quite young of breast cancer so she paid to have a complete check with BUPA, nothing was found but a couple of years later she developed breast cancer and sadly died aged 50 from secondaries. I cannot explain any of it (and there were other things too) but I won't go near any of it now having had this experience. I don't want to know about the future if I don't have control over it! Horse whisperers, well I won't have them either!


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## Antw23uk (8 September 2016)

The woman only had to come on here and see how many posts are around leaving yards to make a fair bet that, that question would be a good one to start with, lol!

I'm not convinced. I like to think i have an amazing bond with my horse and can read him well and we both have a great level of understanding (especially now he is at home) but I'm not convinced a stranger could turn up and 'speak' to him!


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## Amye (8 September 2016)

ycbm said:



			Ask Derren Brown how he does it. If you see his live show in a small theatre you'd never believe in spiritualists or horse whisperers ever again.

I've seen him live on stage (I found his ability sinister and almost frightening) and I've seen him live on TV convince a sceptical bookies clerk at a greyhound track pay out on a ticket for a dog which did not win.
		
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This!!

I've seen Derren Brown, watched all his shows, there are ways of reading people and saying something that seems correct, but is really just vague and you're the one that 'connects' the dots and makes it into something. He's really good and explains things really well, after watching his stuff I'd never believe in psychics or 'whisperers'.

I don't really know how people can talk to horses, why would they all speak english? Or do whisperers know a different secret language?  I'm a scientist and a sceptic so I guess I would never believe - animals don't have the same thought processes as us, don't worry about the same things, don't see the 'bigger picture' like us so why would they communicate like us? If they understood things like this why are some still such spooky monkeys when we always reassure them they're OK and spook in the same spot EVERYDAY with nothing bad happening???

If my horse could communicate all he'd think about is food and snoozing! And he'd do it in German!


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## Regandal (8 September 2016)

I have a book by Julie Dicker. I do think she had an amazing ability though. She saw 'images' from the horse, and feelings.


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## Pippity (8 September 2016)

A similar conversation came up on my then-yard a couple of years back.

With a bit of cold reading and reference to a telephone conversation I'd overheard (been standing right next to the person at the time - not sneaky eavesdropping!) I managed to convince everybody I had psychic powers.

I then told them exactly how I'd done everything.

They didn't believe me and decided I DO have psychic powers, I'm just not aware of them.

Perhaps I should set myself up in business!


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## fburton (8 September 2016)

Amye said:



			If my horse could communicate all he'd think about is food and snoozing! And he'd do it in German!
		
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I remember watching an episode of _Black Beauty_ from the British series on German TV. The Germans overdub everything for television; Untertitel sind verboten! Not only were the human actors words revoiced in German, they overdubbed the equine vocalisations too (presumably also in German?!).


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## DTV (8 September 2016)

Oh yes i believe.But I also believe the world is flat,Elvis is alive and honest politician's exist.Livery had one come out the other week.She hangs on her every word.Amongst the stunning revelations were things like,horse A wants a certain colour halter,horse B wants a certain colour rug,etc.But the one that really promoted my best John Cleese wide eyed stare was the fact that my gelding was taking the mickey out of her gelding over the fence.WHAAAAT!!!.How exactly?.'You look like a Filly in that purple rug',Who cut your mane?,it looks silly','Your bum's so big it blocks out the sun'.LOL.So errrr NO!.Ok for a bit of fun,but i can think of more productive (and fun) ways of blowing £60!.


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## Kaylum (8 September 2016)

If you go to the theatre to watch certain physic entertainers and enjoy what you are seeing that's good for you. My bil was a threatre manager there are some quite interesting things go on in the crowd but if you enjoying it that's good for you.

I have also read the tarot cards for a few people and they relate things to what they hear. One guy at work wrote it all down and started crying.  He knew it was to prove you make it up in your head the parts that relate to your life and your not actually listening to what I am saying.


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## chased by bees (8 September 2016)

100% skeptic. It's just very clever cold reading. Horses cannot speak English and only really think in the now. 
Also been to see Derrin Brown live, his shows are absolutely fascinating. Amazing to realise though we all seem so different, we're all essentially wired the same way.


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## milliepops (8 September 2016)

Micropony said:



			I had a horse whisperer see my horse just for a bit of fun really. He'd seen a couple of others on the yard and owners had been quite impressed. I wasn't. Lots of things that should have come up didn't, and the stuff that did was a bit random and unconvincing. The chap gave some advice about flower remedies and homeopathic remedies, supposedly based on what the horse had told him. As soon as horse figured out said homeopathic remedies were not mints he had precisely zero interest. The flower remedies he actively chose to avoid.
		
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I wonder if I had the same person, as I was also recommended flower remedies 

I'm another total sceptic but I was desperate and willing to try anything. I've had (perfectly normal!) a flatwork lesson with the chap that came to see my horse and figured that if nothing else, it was another experienced set of eyes that might be able to spot something I'd missed.

most was generic waffle, IMO, a small amount was very physically specific and helpful - got some issues looked into which improved the horse. 

Not sure I'd do it again for the horses I have now - one is very able to communicate directly as it is!  and the one I had seen has come on through her troubled time. But I couldn't totally rule out the possibility I'd do the same in the future if we reached crisis point and had tried everything - but I'm not interested in what their favourite colour headcollar is etc so I'd be very selective who I used :lol: and would view it in the same way - just another set of eyes on a horse that was struggling with something.


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## Bernster (8 September 2016)

Another sceptic here.  I think sometimes it's the odd thing that we connect with, and we remember and focus on that, and forget the vast majority that is vague or incorrect.  Also a Derren Brown fan, maybe that's the telling factor?!


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## fatpiggy (8 September 2016)

I've used them twice, one was a remote (she was in America) the other came to visit.  The one in America described my horse's character so accurately it was uncanny, and was pretty spot on with her health conditions.  I had only given my horses' name and that she was in England.  This is all pre-Facebook etc.  The chap who came out was doing it as a project (it would take too long to explain) but he came up from somewhere in the South of England and did my horse for £5. He never actually touched her, she was stood absolutely still in her stable),and again, he knew nothing about her at all.  He picked up on her medical conditions again and didn't make any small talk with me at all.  Then he came out with a question which was nothing to do with horses at all and really totally off the wall, and my first reply was well I don't think she has been watching it (it was a TV programme) but then I had admitted that as it was a blast from my very distant past I had gone out of my way to watch it the previous weekend.  As to communicating in English he told me that he saw images and translated them into English, and sensed pain and inflammation in the horses' bodies and again ,pictured it.  I had first heard about him as he offered his services completely free to a horse rescue centre based near himself and would examine all the new horses as they arrived at the sanctuary to try to help with their rehab.  They thought the world of him and were very happy to go with what he told them .

I'm a scientist but I like to think I have an open mind. I am naturally suspicious of people and "fads" and hate making on the spot decisions - I like to go away and think and research for myself.

At the moment I will state that a. there are indeed alot of fakes about, and b. I haven't made my mind up.


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## WelshD (8 September 2016)

I'm with Ant in that enough people move yards often enough to make it a reasonably good bet, if you weren't planning to move then I'm sure they would play it that the horse was worried and they could be reassured so it could be worked both ways

I don't believe in 'horse whisperers' as such but I do believe that sometimes a horse can be visibly unhappy and that owners may not be experienced enough to see the signs so a more experienced horse person could offer an insight that the owner may not posess - especially given the number of novice owners out there

I had a very nervous pony that when it came down to it I was not experienced enough to cope with, a competent person came out and her body language was such that the pony was more relaxed - had she honed her skills slightly differently I am sure she would make lots of money as a whisperer - all she would have to say is 'fluffy wishes that you wouldn't pussyfoot around and is worried that you aren't assertive enough, he has had a fright early in his life, was beaten with bog sticks and needs you to understand that being jumpy around him isn't helping'


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## luckyoldme (8 September 2016)

DTV said:



			Oh yes i believe.But I also believe the world is flat,Elvis is alive and honest politician's exist.Livery had one come out the other week.She hangs on her every word.Amongst the stunning revelations were things like,horse A wants a certain colour halter,horse B wants a certain colour rug,etc.But the one that really promoted my best John Cleese wide eyed stare was the fact that my gelding was taking the mickey out of her gelding over the fence.WHAAAAT!!!.How exactly?.'You look like a Filly in that purple rug',Who cut your mane?,it looks silly','Your bum's so big it blocks out the sun'.LOL.So errrr NO!.Ok for a bit of fun,but i can think of more productive (and fun) ways of blowing £60!.
		
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are you really serious?
did they go and buy the rugs?
I just can t get my head around that!


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## JillA (8 September 2016)

Actually what you are describing is an animal communicator, not a horse whisperer (who modifies behaviour based on, very often, body language).
I know someone who does this and she is quite surprised that not everyone can. I'll admit to being a sceptic, especially when she said my horse didn't feel he could jump these days (he has never jumped, because of pigeon toes and fetlock problems so he has no concept of jumping).
But when my cat was missing for a month I did ask her and she described the environment he was in at that time I went and called him in all the places I could think of that fitted the description and although he didn't magically appear, within 5 minutes he was crossing a neighbours garden on the way home. Coincidence? After a month away, it would be a very remarkable one.


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## fatpiggy (8 September 2016)

luckyoldme said:



			are you really serious?
did they go and buy the rugs?
I just can t get my head around that!
		
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A lady at my yard had heard great things about a local man who did whispering so called him out to speak to her youngish mare. I stood and watched from a few feet away.  Apparently the horse really liked her pink water buckets and wanted everything else to be pink as well.  At least the people I've used previously didn't come out with anything as daft as that.


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## OWLIE185 (8 September 2016)

There are some people that are very much more sensitive, perceptive, receptive and have a far better sense of smell and can interoperate the signals being sent out by a horse.


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## fatpiggy (8 September 2016)

JillA said:



			Actually what you are referring to is an animal communicator, not a horse whisperer (who modifies behaviour based on, very often, body language).
I know someone who does this and she is quite surprised that not everyone can. I'll admit to being a sceptic, especially when she said my horse didn't feel he could jump these days (he has never jumped, because of pigeon toes and fetlock problems so he has no concept of jumping).
But when my cat was missing for a month I did ask her and she described the environment he was in at that time I went and called him in all the places I could think of that fitted the description and although he didn't magically appear, within 5 minutes he was crossing a neighbours garden on the way home. Coincidence? After a month away, it would be a very remarkable one.
		
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I'm glad your cat came home safely, there is nothing worse than not knowing.  Let me tell you a similar story and just as big a coincidence.  My horse was getting old and had terrible knee arthritis.  I used to take her on short hacks around the fields, or in hand.  One nice sunny day I decided we would have one last ride up the roads and back around on the bridle path.  Just before I came off the roads, I spotted a sign on a telephone pole and read the headlines as we walked past. It was about a lost cat.  When I got back to the yard I saw the stray cat that had turned up on the farm out of the blue a few weeks before.  I had seen it around a few times but as I had an elderly cat of my own who wasn't vaccinated, I didn't want to risk touching a stray and taking home disease.  I decided to drive home the long way around which meant going back to the telephone pole with the sign on.  It was about a missing cat, a long-haired tabby. Straight away I realised this was our mystery farm cat, so went back to the farm, and rang the cat's owner on my mobile.  She came out and was reunited with her thin and filthy cat who had escaped from a cattery 6 weeks before.  You can imagine how many tears were being shed and I was so happy that she had got her lovely, nice but dim boy home safely.  It was just coincidence that I had gone out that way that day and seen the notice, and just coincidence that it was the nearest sign to the farm because no-one thought he would have travelled any further away from the cattery (it was a good 2 miles across country).


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## StarcatcherWilliam (8 September 2016)

I've used a horse horse communicator on several occasions.  I've never met him (he lives about 300+ miles away from me) and he does the communication over the phone.  He has communicated with four horses and one dog, two of the horses were deceased!!  I know it all sounds totally ridiculous but he was able to describe the inside of my house through my dead horses' eyes and even said that she was cross that I didn't have any pictures of her up and I was to get the photos of her out of the drawer - I had a drawer with several memory sticks with her photos on.  On another occasion he was able to describe a house on the other side of the world through another (deceased) horse and even mentioned problems that they were having with plumping in the kitchen sink.  I spoke to the owner of the house and the description of the house was correct and their kitchen sink was blocked and smelling!!  When speaking to my dog he could descibe all sorts of things that he would have no way of knowing, down to the car I drove, our other pet dog and what the dog thought of my then boyfriend.  If someone told me all this stuff I'd think that they were barking mad, but this guy is amazing and is even used by vets in his area.


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## Caol Ila (8 September 2016)

I had one tell me that my horse's neighbor reminded her of her mother.

My horse's mother was a dark bay TB, and the neighbor is a grey Connie cross.  Go figure.

That said, if this ability really exists in some people, I'd love to find one who could speak to my friend's dog.  Said dog trotted off into the mist while we were hiking up a Scottish mountain and disappeared for 10 days.  God knows I had traipsed all over the hill looking for her, and through the course of the week, other hikers, including a few folk on the local mountain rescue team (one with a search dog) were also keeping their eyes open for her, as I'd spammed all the mountaineering forums with 'lost dog' posts.  The police notified the local farmer, etc. etc.  There were no sightings for 10 days, then an outdoor ed instructor had a group of kids on the hill, and the dog appeared on the trail, only about 100m from where I last saw her!

I would love to know what she did and what happened to her for those 10 days.


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## Frumpoon (8 September 2016)

StarcatcherWilliam said:



			I've used a horse horse communicator on several occasions.  I've never met him (he lives about 300+ miles away from me) and he does the communication over the phone.  He has communicated with four horses and one dog, two of the horses were deceased!!  I know it all sounds totally ridiculous but he was able to describe the inside of my house through my dead horses' eyes and even said that she was cross that I didn't have any pictures of her up and I was to get the photos of her out of the drawer - I had a drawer with several memory sticks with her photos on.  On another occasion he was able to describe a house on the other side of the world through another (deceased) horse and even mentioned problems that they were having with plumping in the kitchen sink.  I spoke to the owner of the house and the description of the house was correct and their kitchen sink was blocked and smelling!!  When speaking to my dog he could descibe all sorts of things that he would have no way of knowing, down to the car I drove, our other pet dog and what the dog thought of my then boyfriend.  If someone told me all this stuff I'd think that they were barking mad, but this guy is amazing and is even used by vets in his area.
		
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Who is he?


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## AShetlandBitMeOnce (8 September 2016)

StarcatcherWilliam said:



			I've used a horse horse communicator on several occasions.  I've never met him (he lives about 300+ miles away from me) and he does the communication over the phone.  He has communicated with four horses and one dog, two of the horses were deceased!!  I know it all sounds totally ridiculous but he was able to describe the inside of my house through my dead horses' eyes and even said that she was cross that I didn't have any pictures of her up and I was to get the photos of her out of the drawer - I had a drawer with several memory sticks with her photos on.  On another occasion he was able to describe a house on the other side of the world through another (deceased) horse and even mentioned problems that they were having with plumping in the kitchen sink.  I spoke to the owner of the house and the description of the house was correct and their kitchen sink was blocked and smelling!!  When speaking to my dog he could descibe all sorts of things that he would have no way of knowing, down to the car I drove, our other pet dog and what the dog thought of my then boyfriend.  If someone told me all this stuff I'd think that they were barking mad, but this guy is amazing and is even used by vets in his area.
		
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I am not necessarily a skeptic, I would be prepared to believe if I was persuaded.. But how would the horses be able to describe the inside of your house anyway? They have never been inside (I assume ) 

I believe in psychics, and have been to see Psychic Sally (speaks to the dead). And considering she has an audience of 1000 people say, she does come out with some incredibly specific things that she couldn't possibly know. For example she said that she could see an older man, with white hair who had very knobbly knees. She could sense him falling and being impaled in a church, and could feel pain in the left side of his chest, she even sang a song that he used to sing to my mother when she was little.   Both me and my mum knew it was my grandad, as he had indeed fallen in the churchyard once and impaled himself on the spiked church fence, he was old and grey (that's a given), and he had won competitions on Margate beach for the knobbliest knees!   We stood up to say yes, we know this person and she said that he wanted to let us know that him and my nan were up there waiting on the farm, and then she said he laughed like this was a running joke.   (My nan had died not too long before the show and had severe dementia, and she had said 'are we going back to the farm' in her last few minutes, despite the fact that she hadn't lived on a farm for the last 75 years. Grandad died 20 years before nan did, so how would Sally have known?)


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## applecart14 (8 September 2016)

I had a horse whisperer lady (initials SC) and she was incredibly accurate.  First when she walked in Bails stable she said there has been an aggressive dark horse stabled next to him who Bailey hadn't liked (correct) and then she said Bailey had company in the stable, a horse who had taken the opportunity through Bailey to come and say hello.  It was my lost horse Billy.  He said he was sorry he had had to leave me suddenly without a goodbye, but his chest had hurt and he had left this world incredibly quickly and was sad he hadn't said goodbye.  Billy was my lovely horse who had dropped down dead in the field from a suspected heart attack in front of the YO.  When we went to see his body all three of us, Dad, partner and myself were crying and my partner noticed tears had run down Billys face too.  Were they tears of sadness as Sarah had suggested? No one will ever know.

By this time I was crying, I was an emotional wreck anyway at this time in my life!  Then she said there was a horse in the stable with wobbly legs (my wobblers boy who had been my previous horse before Bailey and whose death had affected me greatly).  His death (horse No.4) had nearly sent me over the edge.  It was great feeling him near me.  At this stage Bailey began to nip me (SC said this was like me grabbing a friends sleeve and saying "you'll never guess what???").  He was excited at all the outpouring of news and information for me and happy that I was listening to him.  All this time I was in a highly emotional state.  Was I sucking up the pretence like a sponge??? No, I don't think so. I feel certain to my dying day it was real.

She also said there was an alsatian looking dog in the stable (my beloved best friend, my dog we lost in 2009).  And a cat who wouldn't sit still (when it did she confirmed it was a black female cat who we'd lost 20 years before at the age of 19).  That was what I needed - confirmation that she was genuine.  NO ONE and I mean NO ONE had known about my cat!!

She mentioned other things that were not really of any relevance, things like Bailey saying he didn't like his flash noseband (what horse does?) a problem with an abcess in a particular foot  (which has never materialized although she was certain he'd had one there) and then said that I had been giving him three supplements but had recently stopped one with a burgundy lid (red cell!!) (staggering correct again - again why mention something so trivial if she were not genuine?)

Because I'd had such rotten luck in the past and lost four horses previously to Bailey in short succession (7yrs) I was finding it very hard to bond with Bailey as I didn't feel that I could move on, nor did I have any confidence that he would not die too. So I begged her to tell me how long I would have him for.  She said that he wouldn't be ridden after the age of 19 (he is currently that now and it looks like this prediction may come true) and he would die aged 21.  When she gave this reading Bailey was 10 and 19 and 21 seemed like light years away.  Now they are very close and to be honest, although the reading gave me great relief at the time it is causing me to worry now.

She had to stop the reading in the end as I was too far gone emotionally and I think she was a bit worried about my mental state!  Hearing about Billy and Rommy had really upset me, but in a good way if anyone can understand that?

Her reading helped me tremendously as it helped me move on with Bailey, if I hadn't had it I think I would have given up on him as it took me about three years to gell with him by this stage and at times I hated him and certainly felt no love for him as I felt I was betraying Rommy.  

Whether the reading was real or just a fictitious piece of made up crap I don't care.  I had great comfort in her words and knowing my previous horses were still around and 'in touch' mad me feel amazingly comforted.  One day when Bailey is no longer with me I will have a reading with my next horse with (SC) I will hope and pray that I get to 'hear' him once again, no doubt mugging me for his mints and liquorice!


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## hairycob (8 September 2016)

Woman at a yard I was at had one out. When she booked she gave him her OTTB's registered name. She was absolutley convinced because this "horse whiperer" could tell her stuff about the horses racing history & she knew it was true because she had checked it online! So I said " did she tell you x y & z (I can use google too  ). She was then convinced I had "powers" too, I just couldn't convince her that I had looked it up on line.


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## YorksG (8 September 2016)

I once had a distance reading done, it was indeed acurate, just not for the current Appy, but the one before  The reader had no advantage to make and was training. I do believe that some people can tune in with some animals and/or people. I worked for many years with trauma survivors and have had an experience I have disclosed on here before, of "seeing" locations before they have been told or described to me, for example the back of a wagon, an old fashioned bathroom and I have acurately described a persons mothers kitchen work surfaces, without ever having been there or met the mother. So yes I do believe that some people can communicate with horses.


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## Merrymoles (8 September 2016)

I wish I did believe as I would really like to know more about my horse's past and why he is such an anxious soul. I would also like him to know that I have no plans to ever move him on and that wherever we go in life, I will always be there.

However, while I believe there are many, many things we don't understand about the world, I think the great majority of animal communicators are complete charlatans and I'm not prepared to part with hard-earned cash to find out which ones!


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## Sarah04 (8 September 2016)

DTV said:



			Oh yes i believe.But I also believe the world is flat,Elvis is alive and honest politician's exist.Livery had one come out the other week.She hangs on her every word.Amongst the stunning revelations were things like,horse A wants a certain colour halter,horse B wants a certain colour rug,etc.But the one that really promoted my best John Cleese wide eyed stare was the fact that my gelding was taking the mickey out of her gelding over the fence.WHAAAAT!!!.How exactly?.'You look like a Filly in that purple rug',Who cut your mane?,it looks silly','Your bum's so big it blocks out the sun'.LOL.So errrr NO!.Ok for a bit of fun,but i can think of more productive (and fun) ways of blowing £60!.
		
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&#128514; your gelding taking the mickey out of her gelding!


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## arlosmum (8 September 2016)

I would love to have one done on my boy. I think it would be very interesting. 
I'm quite sceptical though. I remember the thread on here years ago where the communicator said the horse she was 'reading' wanted to be a fireman! I mean, come on, wtaf?


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## Merrymoles (8 September 2016)

arlosmum said:



			I would love to have one done on my boy. I think it would be very interesting. 
I'm quite sceptical though. I remember the thread on here years ago where the communicator said the horse she was 'reading' wanted to be a fireman! I mean, come on, wtaf?
		
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hahaha - yes I remembered that too!


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## Elf On A Shelf (8 September 2016)

We had one done on my darty many years ago - again pre Facebook - as he had gone down south and turned from the most biddable, rideable pony into a complete nightmare that couldn't cope with a saddle pretty much. I think the woman was in America, she was emailed a pic of said pony standing in the field in Scotland and was told his name was Freebie. 

What we got back was Unreal!!! And I mean mind blowing stuff! 

...

His biggest problem was that he didn't like being called Freebie, he wanted to be called Free and he wanted a red feed bucket...


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## Exploding Chestnuts (8 September 2016)

Yes, I had a lady looked at My Boy , out of interest, and because she was on the yard. She told me numerous things, including several I did not could/ not know [horse was in a schooling yard], but which were correct.
He also enjoyed her hands on massage,  he was ecstatic!


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## millitiger (8 September 2016)

I had a lady to see my previous horse as he had a number of behavioural issues we just couldn't get to the bottom of.

She opened with 'well you haven't had him very long have you, he feels insecure at the moment'




The horse was 8yrs old at the time, I'd owned him since 5 months and he followed me everywhere like an orphan puppy and was besotted which was part of the issue.
Hence not really believing anything she said after that.

When I informed her of her mistake, she said the horse next door was very loud and it was he who had spoken to her and confused her, not my horse.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (8 September 2016)

oldie48 said:



			I am also a cynic about horse whisperers and spiritualists but many years a friend had a "girly night", few glasses of wine and a lady who read the tarot cards, just a bit of a laugh! She told 2 close friends that someone they knew would have a baby, an unexpected pregnancy that would bring great joy but she didn't say anything to me. We spent time comparing notes and came up with a few people they knew that I didn't. Yes, you've guessed it was me! I was not pregnant at the time, was in my forties, in a relationship but had no plans for children. Said child has just qualified as a doctor and has given me and my, now, husband so much happiness and was, I have to admit, unplanned. Unfortunately the other prediction was not good. She told my best friend that  her (deceased) aunt was concerned for her health. It spooked my friend as her aunt had died quite young of breast cancer so she paid to have a complete check with BUPA, nothing was found but a couple of years later she developed breast cancer and sadly died aged 50 from secondaries. I cannot explain any of it (and there were other things too) but I won't go near any of it now having had this experience. I don't want to know about the future if I don't have control over it! Horse whisperers, well I won't have them either!
		
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Oh yes, but they can speak English, I went to see a horse I owned, ie sold but not paid for,  basically he was being abused, As I stood at the fence and he was about 50 - 60 metres away. I was not sure how to proceed and in to my head came "don't leave me here" that was all. He never said any more, never before and never again, but when I returned to see him [padlocked in a field, but now he had food and water] he trotted over to see me, and made it clear he wanted to escape.
Next time and indeed the next few times he saw me he rushed over, ignoring other folks.
I am sure there are plenty of charletons, but there are people who can communicate both with animals and with people.

This was the same horse who [previously] an animal communicator gave me a long list of his moans, including that I had hit him with a whip!!!!! Yes, I was fed up with his nonsense that day [confession] He was Champion moaner, but how did she know that after 2 to three minutes?


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## Rosiejazzandpia (8 September 2016)

I believe that there's a lot of fakes out there, however I also believe that there are people who are far more perceptive to others feelings, thoughts and general vibes. I'd be really interested in having a reading done of my two deceased mares, if anyone can pm me a contact for some remote reader who I could send a photo to then I'd be very pleased to try it out


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## MochaDun (8 September 2016)

I'm not sure if people can actually read horses' minds but I do believe there are people who can read other people extremely well and also those that do have ESP so maybe it's the owners' cues and minds they have a route into? I have actually had my mind read at an evening I went to with my aunt many years ago - there was no way the person could have known the thing that was in my head - he did it to several people on very different things so it wasn't just chance/luck/easy guess.  It was extraordinary and no tricks as far as I can tell. In our family there is some history of 'feelings' about events and premonitions which are unexplainable so I guess I err on the side of some things you just can't explain logically.


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## applecart14 (8 September 2016)

moleskinsmum said:



			hahaha - yes I remembered that too! 

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 the one girl at our yard had a reading and her pony 'said' out of the blue to the whisperer "dont forget to do under your bed". C nearly fell over as her mum had asked her only days before to tidy her room and remember to vacumn under her bed. C nearly fainted with shock! Poor girl, one thing to have your mum nag you but a bit different for your pony to! Lol This was the same lady that did Baileys reading. some years after my reading she was on our yard again and another girl that had just had a reading from this lady ran up to me excitedly announcing that SC had seen our dog we had just had pts running up and down the yard full of glee. i was a bit sceptical on this occasion as i had announced her death on FB and candy had never really spent much time on the yard. Plus i had been led to believe that people or animals that have just passed are not able to 'come through' straight away but you never know....


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## paddy555 (8 September 2016)

MiJodsR2BlinkinTite said:



			A good friend of mine, let's call her Elizabeth (not her real name), a good few years ago now, had the late Julie Dicker out to "read" her horses. She started to "talk" to her old mare. 

She told her things that no-one could ever have possibly have known that had happened with one of the ponies that her daughter had when she was a kid; this old mare had been around then and told her basically what had been the problem with his rearing and general behaviour - this particular horse had had to be PTS and the mare described to Julie the behaviour and what had caused it...... my friend said there was no possible way that anyone could have known the information that was given.

I might add that my friend Elizabeth is the most cynical and down-to-earth practical person you could ever meet, she has a very down to earth approach and isn't remotely open to being manipulated! But she was 101% convinced.
		
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I knew Julie and watched her many times. She was the real thing and she did know stuff that was totally impossible to know. She worked on one of my horses that hobbled into a stable in a lot of pain and could hardly move and 20 minutes later trotted out sound. The instructions she gave to the body worker who worked with her could only have come from the horse. It was out of this world, she asked no questions, couldn't even see me and communicated only with the horse. The communication was instant, within 10 seconds she was saying he wants this, then he wants this. "THIS" comprised of moving his front legs and shoulders in ways he apparently wanted. Afterwards we all, Julie included, said why didn't  we video that but none of us had any idea what was going to happen. She was also a healer. I never got too close to her when she was working on a horse. I always became very spaced out and had to sit down. 

Another time she described to me how one of my horses had been hit on either side of his shoulders by a long thing attached to the reins by the rider. I had not told her the breed of horse and I think very few people what know what a Peruvian bridle looked like. When she told me this it immediately made sense of the horse. Her face was a study when I brought out the offending bridle which totally fitted her description.  



As for the rest then I suspect there an awful lot of charlatans who have jumped on the bandwagon and it is not a road I would go down. If I hadn't know Julie for a long time I would have said they are all charlatans but with her you simply couldn't.


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## DTV (8 September 2016)

luckyoldme said:



			are you really serious?
did they go and buy the rugs?
I just can t get my head around that!
		
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Oh yes,she did the next day!


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## Queenbee (8 September 2016)

I am a huge cynic, and I feel rightly so - even if this is a genuine talent that people possess I suspect that the vast majority of practitioners are charlatans.  However, as cynical as I am,  I come across the odd story which melts my heart and leads me to question my views.  Well worth a look, whether you believe or not, this is a lovely story with a touching ending.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wL--zc1KIxk


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## chestnut cob (8 September 2016)

I'm not convinced. I sold a horse to some people a few years ago which I'd owned for about 5 yrs. They had a communicator out recently and the horse supposed told them about all sorts of things that had happened to him. They thought it was amazing.... Except they were all supposed to be when I owned him & I can absolutely guarantee that not a single one of those things actually happened! Utter nonsense!


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## peanut (9 September 2016)

I'm a believer up to a point.  Just because we don't understand something or can't do it ourselves doesn't mean it is not possible.

I've had two people communicate with my horse: one was rubbish, the other was truly amazing.  

Yes there are loads of phoneys out there ready to fleece the desperate and the vulnerable, but there are also people (the late Julie Dicker being one of them) who have a true gift for communication on another level.


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## tallywhacker (10 September 2016)

Has anyone used horses voice?


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## Mike007 (11 September 2016)

Something we cant explain is supernatural or a miracle. Something we can explain is merely science. Why do horses speak fluent English is an interesting question. Do we think in English is another. We have two halves to our brain , the left ,as I understand it ,basically works at an unconscious level and decisions made by it are reinterpreted by the righthand side,in English ,or the language of your choice. The system works as a filter . If our mind were bombarded at a conscious level by all the subliminal messages and information we receive every second ,we would cease to be able to function. In fact there is a school of thought that this is the cause of autism rather than being disconnected from the external world. 
    Horses communicate by body language . The more we are exposed to their body language ,the more our left brain learns to read it ,and we translate it via our right hand side ,into conscious thought. Some people are better than others at this. The reverse is also true ,horses learn to read our body language . 
    None of this is magic or mystic , it is pure derren Brown. He is exceptionally good at reading body language, But what is the difference between reading body language as thought and horse whispering .In my view there is no difference. It is called body language for a reason.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (11 September 2016)

Mike007 said:



			Something we cant explain is supernatural or a miracle. Something we can explain is merely science. Why do horses speak fluent English is an interesting question. Do we think in English is another. We have two halves to our brain , the left ,as I understand it ,basically works at an unconscious level and decisions made by it are reinterpreted by the righthand side,in English ,or the language of your choice. The system works as a filter . If our mind were bombarded at a conscious level by all the subliminal messages and information we receive every second ,we would cease to be able to function. In fact there is a school of thought that this is the cause of autism rather than being disconnected from the external world. 
    Horses communicate by body language . The more we are exposed to their body language ,the more our left brain learns to read it ,and we translate it via our right hand side ,into conscious thought. Some people are better than others at this. The reverse is also true ,horses learn to read our body language . 
    None of this is magic or mystic , it is pure derren Brown. He is exceptionally good at reading body language, But what is the difference between reading body language as thought and horse whispering .In my view there is no difference. It is called body language for a reason.
		
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soooo, did my horse speak,.
I have heard of a girl whose  horse turned and told her to get off, then he dropped down dead... it was here on HHO I think.


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## Mike007 (11 September 2016)

Bonkers2 said:



			soooo, did my horse speak,.
		
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That is a question you will have to ask him.


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## fburton (11 September 2016)

Just saw this interesting and entertaining talk that was given at the Royal Institution...

"An Introduction to Paranormal Psychology - with Chris French"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jve3p0ws-nI

Q&A here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pW_F9VazZqk


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## Irish gal (11 September 2016)

There's overwhelming evidence that it's real, but like any walk of life, there will always be charlatans trying to cash in, the trick is to avoid them. And whatever about Derren Brown, if psychics are just reading people I wonder why they are routinely used by the police around the world. Locally to me we had one solve a missing persons case. 

A youngster who owed drug money went missing, his family was distraught. After a year a psychic said he was in a lake in Clare connected to Bridget. He was later found in Lough Bridget. Here's an excerpt from the paper about it:

"A British psychic, Denis McKenzie, travelled to Limerick three weeks ago having offered to help in the search.

Mary Kelly (mother) said at the time he became very agitated when he travelled to east Clare carrying personal belongings of her missing son. She said Mr McKenzie told the family his body had been deposited in a lake in Co Clare. Mr McKenzie had turned up some astonishing information following the disappearance in Soham in Britain of Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman.

The teenagers uncle, Turlough McNamara, said at least now his mother Mary can face Christmas knowing that she can give her beloved son Richard a Christian burial and be able to grieve and visit his grave.

What I find astounding is that people don't believe in it despite all the evidence, like the case above, to the contrary. And talking to horses is only another side of the same gift. Apparently we all have these latent abilities, they are just highly developed in some of us. Imagine if we actively tried to develop these abilities, we could be living in quite a different world.


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## RaposadeGengibre (11 September 2016)

We had a mare in the uni who hated everyone especially wearing just a tiny bit of white (cant blame her as students have been poking her all over). As the year ended, she had to be moved to the country for the summer. Nobody could approach her safely in the stable by then without cornering her with a fork and that day even that hadnt worked. Somehow proff. assistant, an amazing, kind woman to us, students, she walked that mare out of the stable, through the building (where she was poked and prodded), wearing big white shawl (she was called out of her flat) and said mare followed her like a puppy in only head collar!

I have noticed that when I am upset - not "oops, I broke my beloved cup" but level of unexpected death in the family, the animals, even not very familiar or seriously unhandled, behave differently. And in the same time mind somehow clocking "oh... there is something disturbing that horse there..." The horse, who before wouldnt let me touch her belly before, allows me remove a huge tick between her quite inflamed teats while standing free in the field...

IMHO of course, I would say that small amount of people with certain level of sensitivity (well above average) can get "readings" off an animal, health issues, behavioral problems etc. (not sure about flower remedies though) as feelings but mainly its a load of mooo pooo.


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## catembi (11 September 2016)

Haven't read all the replies as I'm meant to be working on my doctorate instead of messing about on here (!), but I've had some truly incredible experiences using an AC.  I started doing some work ghost writing her biography, including several chapters on the late Catembi & my current horses.  If anyone is interested, PM me & I'll send you what I've done.

It won't be straight away tho as I'm going to log out of this site for a bit & do what I ought to be doing...honest...!

T x


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## ponies4ever (11 September 2016)

A friend on the yard had one out a couple days ago for her horse and I was very surprised as she said that she knew the horse had a second rider (me) and that they were lopsided to the right (normal rider is lopsided to the left) and that he really enjoys jumping despite the fact she hadn't been told he had been jumped as he is mainly dressage! I was very intruiged to say the least...


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## ycbm (11 September 2016)

There's overwhelming evidence that it's real,
		
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There isn't one shred of repeatable, scientifically explored evidence, sorry.

These kind of abilities have been extensively researched under scientific conditions and they cannot by found.

Coincidences happen which people take as proof, forgetting the thousands other times there was no coincidence.


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## TelH (11 September 2016)

ycbm said:



			There isn't one shred of repeatable, scientifically explored evidence, sorry.

These kind of abilities have been extensively researched under scientific conditions and they cannot by found.

Coincidences happen which people take as proof, forgetting the thousands other times there was no coincidence.
		
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This ^^^ 

The mind is an incredibly powerful thing, your own mind can sometimes convince you that all kinds of nonsensical things are true. The whole psychic thing is actually rather disturbing because of the way people can and do use it to exploit others, often when they are at their most vulnerable.


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## doodle (11 September 2016)

I have had experience with 2. First one came to see my horse, said aome stuff she couldn't know, described his best friend with no way of seeing him. Described some not true stuff but I was convinced there was something real. 
Second time was a clutching at straws thing with my horse who would not accept backing. It was a distance thing. She knew we were having issues backing. Said nothing remotely correct. Said ahe saw him standing proudly with a rider on back and a fluttering rosette. Horse was eventually pts and never did accept a rider on his back.


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## jojo5 (11 September 2016)

Is Peanut still around on here? Have pm'ed you if so.


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## fburton (12 September 2016)

Irish gal said:



			There's overwhelming evidence that it's real, but like any walk of life, there will always be charlatans trying to cash in, the trick is to avoid them. And whatever about Derren Brown, if psychics are just reading people I wonder why they are routinely used by the police around the world. Locally to me we had one solve a missing persons case. 

A youngster who owed drug money went missing, his family was distraught. After a year a psychic said he was in a lake in Clare connected to Bridget. He was later found in Lough Bridget. Here's an excerpt from the paper about it:

"A British psychic, Denis McKenzie, travelled to Limerick three weeks ago having offered to help in the search.

Mary Kelly (mother) said at the time he became very agitated when he travelled to east Clare carrying personal belongings of her missing son. She said Mr McKenzie told the family his body had been deposited in a lake in Co Clare. Mr McKenzie had turned up some astonishing information following the disappearance in Soham in Britain of Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman.

The teenagers uncle, Turlough McNamara, said at least now his mother Mary can face Christmas knowing that she can give her beloved son Richard a Christian burial and be able to grieve and visit his grave.

What I find astounding is that people don't believe in it despite all the evidence, like the case above, to the contrary. And talking to horses is only another side of the same gift. Apparently we all have these latent abilities, they are just highly developed in some of us. Imagine if we actively tried to develop these abilities, we could be living in quite a different world.
		
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I tried to find more information about this case. Google gave me this:

http://www.tonyyouens.com/Commentary120306.htm (scroll down to 22nd April 2006 More Detective Work?)

The author states: "The police, quite rightly, have not acted on this and are relying on more fact based detective work e.g. asking a number of local men to voluntarily submit to DNA testing."

So I am left wondering exactly to what extent Denis McKenzie materially helped the investigation.

Do you have any more info?


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## Irish gal (12 September 2016)

ycbm said:



			There isn't one shred of repeatable, scientifically explored evidence, sorry.

These kind of abilities have been extensively researched under scientific conditions and they cannot by found.

Coincidences happen which people take as proof, forgetting the thousands other times there was no coincidence.
		
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I'm afraid that is just not correct. There is now a body of work, undertaken by very eminent scientists, which demonstrates the reality of psychic phenomena.

The late Dr Ian Stevenson, Chair of Psychiatry at the University of Virginia, spent 30 years investigating the stories of children who spontaneously recalled past lives. By cross checking their stories against the hospital records and autopsy reports of the people they claimed to be in a past life, he was able to verify their stories - in thousands of cases.

Perhaps his most striking research regards children with birthmarks that correlated exactly with wounds or scars on the bodies of the deceased people they had claimed to be. His work contains photos of his subjects birthmarks against photos of identical marks on the deceased and makes for very striking reading. 

For an overview of his work see The Journal Of Scientific Exploration here:
https://med.virginia.edu/perceptual-studies/wp-content/uploads/sites/267/2015/11/REI36Tucker-1.pdf

Ranked in the top 150 universities in the world, the University of Virginia, recently opened a Paranormal Activity Lab, to research all sorts of psychic phenomena - inspired by the pioneering work of Stevenson.
http://www.theatlantic.com/health/a...ity-lab-at-the-university-of-virginia/283584/

And here's the research of Princeton academics Dr Robert G Jahn and Dr Brenda J Dunne who spent over a decade recording the effects of thought on the running of machines. They have demonstrated that people can interfere with a machine simply by focusing on it, through the use of extra sensory perception.
https://www.princeton.edu/~pear/pdfs/1995-consciousness-anomalous-physical-phenomena.pdf

Those are just a few examples of scientifically verifiable evidence for psychic phenomena, but there many more for anyone curious enough to look into it.


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## Irish gal (12 September 2016)

fburton said:



			I tried to find more information about this case. Google gave me this:

http://www.tonyyouens.com/Commentary120306.htm (scroll down to 22nd April 2006 More Detective Work?)

The author states: "The police, quite rightly, have not acted on this and are relying on more fact based detective work e.g. asking a number of local men to voluntarily submit to DNA testing."

So I am left wondering exactly to what extent Denis McKenzie materially helped the investigation.

Do you have any more info?
		
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No problem, I was on the iPad yesterday and still haven't figured out how to copy links so used a segment from the story instead.

I'll give you a bit of the background of this as I know it well, knowing and having spoken to this poor youngster's mother. An important thing to bear in mind is that in missing persons' cases searches can only continue for a set length of time. It costs a fortune to have a continued Garda search, so naturally that cannot go on indefinitely. What I'm saying is that when the British psychic came here, travelled the locality and got 'information' about Happy Kelly's whereabouts, the family then had to pressurise the police to search those areas and that didn't happen over night, with the result that it was actually a fisherman who found the body, although the information given by McKenzie was correct.

It is not documented in these pieces the information that he gave about a name, as the reports are principally about the body's discovery so that would be extraneous info. His mother told me that McKenzie said the place they would find Happy was called Bridie, Breedge or something like that and it turned out to be Lough Bridget - the names he mentioned are variations on Bridget. 

http://www.irishexaminer.com/irelan...tified-as-missing-teen-happy-kelly-49911.html

http://www.irishexaminer.com/irelan...nk&utm_medium=click&utm_campaign=nextandprev#!


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## ycbm (12 September 2016)

I'm afraid that is just not correct. There is now a body of work, undertaken by very eminent scientists, which demonstrates the reality of psychic phenomena.
		
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Where?

Point me to the peer reviewed research published in mainstream scientific media, please, I'd be very interested to read it.

Your last pointer, to a Princeton article, starts 

'a wave mechanical approach to modeling consciousness/environment interactions, based on a metaphorical application of quantum concepts and formalisms has proven useful in predicting the empirical findings'

It makes no more sense as it goes on either, just using increasingly dense amounts of scientific gobbledygook to hide the fact that it's presenting miniscule measurements as proof of humans being able to affect machines which they are nowhere near.

Isn't it interesting, too that people who report previous lives never seem to report a totally boring one or one which can't be verified at all?

None of the three things you pointed to provide any scientifically verifiable evidence for psychic phenomena, Irish Gal. Until there is some, I will remain a fascinated sceptic.


PS have you read the book or seen the film 'Men who stare at goats', about the US army paranormal unit?


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## paddy555 (12 September 2016)

Irish gal said:



			What I find astounding is that people don't believe in it despite all the evidence, like the case above, to the contrary. And talking to horses is only another side of the same gift. Apparently we all have these latent abilities, they are just highly developed in some of us. Imagine if we actively tried to develop these abilities, we could be living in quite a different world.
		
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dowsing is a very good example of this.


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## Zero00000 (12 September 2016)

Who cares if there is scientific evidence or not, if there is someone standing in front of you, telling you things about yourself that are true and they had no way of knowing, What scientific evidence do you need?

I've listened to quite a few readings, including horses and humans,
Some people have a real gift, and others not so.
It's a comfort to some and others think it's nonsense, as with most things in life.

Let people enjoy it and turn a blind eye if you don't &#128522;


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## ycbm (12 September 2016)

paddy555 said:



			dowsing is a very good example of this.
		
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I don't think it's paranormal though. I can dowse water, so can my neice. I think what happens in dowsing is that some people can sense where water lies underground (and given that we came from water and are mostly water and are totally dependant on water this is perhaps not surprising) and we subconsciously subtly move the dowsing rod(s).  I think it's a case of a very fine tuning of a biological necessity. It's a world away from believing you can talk over the phone for a horse you've never met, or even one you have met.


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## Blurr (12 September 2016)

ycbm said:



			PS have you read the book or seen the film 'Men who stare at goats', about the US army paranormal unit?
		
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Haha!  That movie was in my mind as well as I was reading this thread.  Perhaps we have a psychic link? Couldn't be coincidence, I'm sure.


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## ycbm (12 September 2016)

Blurr said:



			Haha!  That movie was in my mind as well as I was reading this thread.  Perhaps we have a psychic link? Couldn't be coincidence, I'm sure.
		
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Definite psychic link 

The book is even more bizarre, and it's all fact, where the film is slightly made up at the end, but great fun !


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## fburton (12 September 2016)

ycbm said:



			I don't think it's paranormal though. I can dowse water, so can my neice. I think what happens in dowsing is that some people can sense where water lies underground (and given that we came from water and are mostly water and are totally dependant on water this is perhaps not surprising) and we subconsciously subtly move the dowsing rod(s).  I think it's a case of a very fine tuning of a biological necessity. It's a world away from believing you can talk over the phone for a horse you've never met, or even one you have met.
		
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There's a segment about dowsing (film clip) in the Royal Institution talk I linked to previously.


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## fburton (12 September 2016)

Zero00000 said:



			Who cares if there is scientific evidence or not, if there is someone standing in front of you, telling you things about yourself that are true and they had no way of knowing, What scientific evidence do you need?
		
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It _is_ possible for someone to tell you things that are true and which they had no way of knowing. What would be really impressive and convincing is if they could do it without also saying things which weren't true!


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## Ddraig_wen (12 September 2016)

I'm on the fence with this. A friend who has a tendency to know things he shouldn't managed to completely describe my landlord's long deceased stallion. I was riding their stallion and I had taken the double bits off of J's old show bridle to use on the friends horse. Sat in his kitchen later that night he suddenly asks me if I've bought a black horse.  No I replied.  Really?  I can see a black up at your place, he's slightly lame in front and has a small white sock at the back. He's getting on a bit.. I still told him nope not mine and asked my landlord the next day if anyone had been there with that description of horse. He got a photo out of his old dales pony. I didn't even know what colour he was myself or that he's been unlevel in front at one point so I know he didn't get the info from me.
Another time sat at same friend's table he stops mid bite of a sandwich to tell me my colts have gotten out of the stables and into the tack room. A couple of hours later while I was still I got a phonecall and they were both in the tackroom somehow.
Weird one this year was waking up in the middle of the night absolutely convinced that the mare was going to have a palomino colt with 4 whites and knowing what his name would be. (This was me not the friend)  Mare foaled while I was at work and I got a call, she's had a pally filly they said. So i asked them to check again. Nope she'd had a colt. Probably just a coincidence but there was only a 1/6 chance that she would have a pally with the genetic combination from her and the stallion.


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## Irish gal (12 September 2016)

ycbm said:



			Where?

Point me to the peer reviewed research published in mainstream scientific media, please, I'd be very interested to read it.

Your last pointer, to a Princeton article, starts 

'a wave mechanical approach to modeling consciousness/environment interactions, based on a metaphorical application of quantum concepts and formalisms has proven useful in predicting the empirical findings'

It makes no more sense as it goes on either, just using increasingly dense amounts of scientific gobbledygook to hide the fact that it's presenting miniscule measurements as proof of humans being able to affect machines which they are nowhere near.

Isn't it interesting, too that people who report previous lives never seem to report a totally boring one or one which can't be verified at all?

None of the three things you pointed to provide any scientifically verifiable evidence for psychic phenomena, Irish Gal. Until there is some, I will remain a fascinated sceptic.


PS have you read the book or seen the film 'Men who stare at goats', about the US army paranormal unit?
		
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The first article I included on Ian Stevenson's work is from a peer reviewed journal Ybcm, it's from the Journal of Scientific Exploration.

And for something a little more well known how about The Lancet.

For those who are capable of assimilating new information and whose minds are not closed, Ian Stevenson's research on reincarnation was featured in the journal in a piece entitled The Past Lives of Twins in 1999.
http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(05)74353-1/fulltext

In 1975, The Journal of the American Medical Association, wrote of Dr Stevenson: &#8220;In regard to reincarnation he has painstakingly and unemotionally collected a detailed series of cases from India, cases in which the evidence is difficult to explain on any other grounds. &#8230; He has placed on record a large amount of data that cannot be ignored.&#8221;

And people do report boring lives, that's something you'll discover if you bother to read the research.

I'm delighted for you to remain a fascinated sceptic - what you chose to believe or not believe is your own business. I am posting here for the benefit of those whose mind's are open, curious and interested in new perspectives on the world around them.

And for those people here's some of Stevenson's most startling research on birthmarks in children corresponding to wounds on the deceased they claimed to be. It contains photos comparing the two.
http://www.near-death.com/reincarnation/research/ian-stevenson.html#a03

Its funny really how someone can demand all sorts of scientific evidence and when then presented with a scientific paper from Princeton, dismiss it as 'scientific gobbledygook'.


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## paddy555 (12 September 2016)

ycbm said:



			I don't think it's paranormal though. I can dowse water, so can my neice. I think what happens in dowsing is that some people can sense where water lies underground (and given that we came from water and are mostly water and are totally dependant on water this is perhaps not surprising) and we subconsciously subtly move the dowsing rod(s).  I think it's a case of a very fine tuning of a biological necessity. It's a world away from believing you can talk over the phone for a horse you've never met, or even one you have met.
		
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but one is not always dowsing for water. You could be dowsing to follow a water pipe which is a man made thing or to follow drains etc. 
Those pipes and drains are not biological necessities. There is some ability in the dowser to find these, some communication, some fine tuning in their ability. 

If people have the ability to find man made drains underground I don't see it is beyond belief that some can communicate with the horses they are with. Water dowsing is very finely tuned, the more you do the more it leaps out at you. If you have the ability to communicate with animals and do it all the time I cannot see any difference. 

I am not disputing there are many charlatans who have latched onto the bandwagon, but there are some genuine ones. Julie Dicker used to tell me she would walk across a yard of horses (whether she was working or not) and the horses would be calling out to her (silently) I did actually believe her as I had seen too many things she had done that were accurate but didn't really have an explanation. 
\Whisperers (or whatever we want to call them) also have the ability to pick up pain by their own feel rather than watching the horse's reaction. That is not difficult, think if you are massaging a horse and come to a painful area. The pain goes straight up your arm and you have to shake it away. That all adds to the picture they build up. Julie used to dowse horses as well to locate pain. 

I think most people with their own horses who know them well and are tuned in sense in someway. When I go out of the kitchen door into the yard in a morning most days I feel nothing and all is well. Then one day I get a feeling of dread as I go out. I haven't heard anything or seen anything but I know a horse is in trouble and for some reason I have a good idea of which horse. (out of a dozen or so) 
When my donkey died I knew the minute I opened the house door he was dead. He was not old, he was fine the night before and 2 fields away so I couldn't see him. There was no reason for him to die (possible heart attack) but I sensed it immediately I was outside. 

I do remember one horses whisperer however who insisted the top door was closed before he started work. Unfortunately he was not a very bright whisperer as he was in the foaling box with CCTV and a captive audience inside eagerly watching every move. Charlatan certainly did apply to him!


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## ycbm (12 September 2016)

Irish gal said:



			The first article I included on Ian Stevenson's work is from a peer reviewed journal Ybcm, it's from the Journal of Scientific Exploration.

And for something a little more well known how about The Lancet.

For those who are capable of assimilating new information and whose minds are not closed, Ian Stevenson's research on reincarnation was featured in the journal in a piece entitled The Past Lives of Twins in 1999.
http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(05)74353-1/fulltext

In 1975, The Journal of the American Medical Association, wrote of Dr Stevenson: In regard to reincarnation he has painstakingly and unemotionally collected a detailed series of cases from India, cases in which the evidence is difficult to explain on any other grounds.  He has placed on record a large amount of data that cannot be ignored.

And people do report boring lives, that's something you'll discover if you bother to read the research.

I'm delighted for you to remain a fascinated sceptic - what you chose to believe or not believe is your own business. I am posting here for the benefit of those whose mind's are open, curious and interested in new perspectives on the world around them.

And for those people here's some of Stevenson's most startling research on birthmarks in children corresponding to wounds on the deceased they claimed to be. It contains photos comparing the two.
http://www.near-death.com/reincarnation/research/ian-stevenson.html#a03

Its funny really how someone can demand all sorts of scientific evidence and when then presented with a scientific paper from Princeton, dismiss it as 'scientific gobbledygook'.
		
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Here's my problem Irish Gal. I looked up your reference about children with past lives and birth defects being injuries to the person they were in a past life. The article states 




			unilateral brachydactyly (shortening of the fingers on one hand only) is extremely rare
		
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It took me ten seconds on Google to find pictures of unilateral brachydactyly, and a minute more to find the quote from a medical book. 




			Brachydactyly may affect one or several fingers on one hand or both hands.
		
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On that basis, I can't take a word that article says seriously, and I find similar things in every reference that you give.

And as someone said.




			It's good to have an open mind. But not so open that your brains drop out.
		
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## ycbm (12 September 2016)

Going back to the Princeton document that you have derided me for criticising, Wikipedia has the following statement about the PEAR unit at Princeton that did that research. The unit, unsurprisingly, was shut down.




			The program had a strained relationship with Princeton and was considered an embarrassment to the university.[2][6][7][8] PEAR's activities have been criticized for lack of scientific rigor, poor methodology, and misuse of statistics,[9][10][11] and have been characterized as pseudoscience.[1]
		
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I think maybe you need to do a little more background research on your references.


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## ycbm (12 September 2016)

Irish Gal I was stung by your repeated accusation that I am closed minded, and I have now finished my research into your references. 

The article on non-identical but monozygotic (same  DNA) twins was published in 1975. The things that it was unable to explain have since been fully explained by epigenetic ressearch. The clearest example is the caterpillar and the butterfly it turns into - they have the same DNA but are totally different. That's epigenetics in action.

Regarding the peer reviewed journal you quote, Rationalwiki describes it as follows:

'JSE has much less to do with science than it does with whatever pet crank theories its editors are out to promote. It's chock-full of all kinds of woo, including (but not limited to) alternative medicine, astrology, remote viewing, AIDS denial, quantum woo, UFOs, and much, much more! 

The spiritualist crank Stephen E. Braude is the Editor-in-Chief for the journal. '

I'm not bothered by people believing what they want to believe and whatever helps them. But I am bothered by claims that there is scientific proof when there is none. Believe me, nobody would be more thrilled than me to see psychic phenomena proved, but as things stand, they have not been.


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## YorksG (12 September 2016)

ycbm, I fail to see how the experiences I have described with "seeing" the locations of peoples trauma, could possibly be tested in double blind tests in lab conditioons, however the experiences were very real for me and the survivors  of the trauma.


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## ycbm (12 September 2016)

YorksG said:



			ycbm, I fail to see how the experiences I have described with "seeing" the locations of peoples trauma, could possibly be tested in double blind tests in lab conditioons, however the experiences were very real for me and the survivors  of the trauma.
		
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I didn't use the term double blind and I didn't claim anything could be proved scientifically. What I said was that Irish Gal is claiming that it has been proved scientifically when it hasn't. 

There are a lot of things in the world that happen that we can't (yet) explain. 

I'll go and look up your comment (sorry, I can't remember it right now) and see if I think there would be any way of testing your situation.


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## ycbm (12 September 2016)

YorksG said:



			I once had a distance reading done, it was indeed acurate, just not for the current Appy, but the one before  The reader had no advantage to make and was training. I do believe that some people can tune in with some animals and/or people. I worked for many years with trauma survivors and have had an experience I have disclosed on here before, of "seeing" locations before they have been told or described to me, for example the back of a wagon, an old fashioned bathroom and I have acurately described a persons mothers kitchen work surfaces, without ever having been there or met the mother. So yes I do believe that some people can communicate with horses.
		
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This one?  I would get you to describe several hundred people's mother's work surfaces, and then work out statistically whether you were right more often than chance.

The setting of locations, I suspect, is that you always imagine scenarios (I know I do) but only the ones which are right are sticking in your memory.  Again, to test it I'd ask you to describe the location of several hundred trauma events (might take a while!)  and see if your response was greater than chance.

The problem is YorksG, that nothing you've done can't be done deliberately and falsely by a good stage illusionist, and they can explain exactly how. You're doing it intuitively, which probably makes you very in tune with people, and a nice person, but it doesn't make you psychic.


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## YorksG (12 September 2016)

ycbm said:



			This one?  I would get you to describe several hundred people's mother's work surfaces, and then work out statistically whether you were right more often than chance.

The setting of locations, I suspect, is that you always imagine scenarios (I know I do) but only the ones which are right are sticking in your memory.  Again, to test it I'd ask you to describe the location of several hundred trauma events (might take a while!)  and see if your response was greater than chance.

The problem is YorksG, that nothing you've done can't be done deliberately and falsely by a good stage illusionist, and they can explain exactly how. You're doing it intuitively, which probably makes you very in tune with people, and a nice person, but it doesn't make you psychic.
		
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At no point did I claim to be psychic, you have (wilfully?) missed the point. The point is communication by trauma survivors, prior to them telling me the location of the trauma. I suggest that you read about the right brain to right brain communication between mothers and infants, there is quite a quantity in work around the subject by attachment theory workers.


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## Irish gal (12 September 2016)

But Ybcm you haven't looked into the subjects I am raising, with all due respect. Those references are only a starting point. Dr Ian Stevenson, was a highly eminent researcher and psychiatrist, who's work is well respected. And if the piece in The Lancet has been disproved now, as you say, that doesn't take away from the main body of his work. That was only a very small part of his research, the bit on twins.

I find your posts frustrating to deal with at times as they cherry pick what I say and then discount what you cannot quibble with. For instance you just ignored all the praise for his work in the Journal of the American Medical Association - a highly respected publication, having first asked to know where it had appeared in respected journals.

He was the head of the department of Psychiatry at the University of Virginia, amongst other top positions that he held. This is not some crackpot individual who's work can be just dismissed. And thanks to his research that university - in the top 150 in the world - has recently launched a paranormal research lab. I gave a reference to that previously but it was also ignored.

Dr Stevenson's work is important as he was so highly respected and eminent, that it could not be discounted. So it was simply ignored by the mainstream, as has been well documented, if you wish to look. Wiki may contain references to the Journal for Scientific Exploration being pseudoscientific, but that is not how it is seen by many pioneering scientists.

There is a bigger issue going on between us here and it is the exact same issue that is also to be seen in the scientific community. Paranormal research of any kind is highly controversial as it challenges the entire mindset of science. Now quantum physics is bridging that gap, for instance with work showing that atoms are influenced depending on whether they are observed or not. 

I understand that there is a massive gulf between us as I, through experience like Yorks G, have had psychic experiences so I know this stuff is real. I am posting here in the hope of hearing from others with similar experiences and broadening my knowledge.

For me what is currently happening in terms of paranormal research is exactly what previously took place when the dogma of religion was first challenged by science. For instance the persecution of Darwin for his beliefs. Only today science is the new dogma and anything that cannot be proven - cut and dried and weighed and measured - is discounted.

But that leaves spiritual and psychic experiences out in the cold. However, there are scientists who are proving the existence of these things, Ian Stevenson amongst them.

If you are genuinely interested in this area then there is a great book available in PDF on the web charting the discoveries of quantum physics and valid scientific studies into psychic phenomena. It is The Holographic Universe by Michael Talbot, and it is well worth a look.


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## jojo5 (12 September 2016)

Sorry, ycbm, did you say that you and your niece had 'sensed' water......??  Sensed how? With some sort of latent ability that I, for one, do not have?  So........


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## ycbm (12 September 2016)

YorksG said:



			At no point did I claim to be psychic, you have (wilfully?) missed the point. The point is communication by trauma survivors, prior to them telling me the location of the trauma. I suggest that you read about the right brain to right brain communication between mothers and infants, there is quite a quantity in work around the subject by attachment theory workers.
		
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I'm sorry you don't like the term, I know you didn't use it. I used it because the ability to describe places you haven't seen, like you described, would normally, I think, be called a psychic phenomenon. I'll make sure I don't use it again about you.


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## ycbm (12 September 2016)

jojo5 said:



			Sorry, ycbm, did you say that you and your niece had 'sensed' water......??  Sensed how? With some sort of latent ability that I, for one, do not have?  So........
		
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Yes,  I can do it too, but I believe there is a rational explanation, as I have described.
Sensing a physical phenomenon is not akin to reading the mind of a horse.

What point were you trying to make? There's more in the world than we can measure and understand? Agree wholeheartedly.


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## jojo5 (12 September 2016)

Ok so I'm a little confused now, as I had thought that the point you w ere trying to make was that the psychic phenomena people have spoken about here could not be possible. Perhaps you are just saying the research can be discredited?  It just seemed to me that water divining ( with no existing knowledge of on site underground waterways or drains) would be in a similar category.  In any case, whether people 'believe' or not in any of these examples of hitherto unexplained uses of human and animal minds, we cannot, with our limited understanding of mental power, categorically deny them as a possibility.  This is the point that you make at the end of your post, but does not seem to be commensurate with the rest of your posts.  Apologies.


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## ycbm (12 September 2016)

jojo5 said:



			Ok so I'm a little confused now, as I had thought that the point you w ere trying to make was that the psychic phenomena people have spoken about here could not be possible. Perhaps you are just saying the research can be discredited?  It just seemed to me that water divining ( with no existing knowledge of on site underground waterways or drains) would be in a similar category.  In any case, whether people 'believe' or not in any of these examples of hitherto unexplained uses of human and animal minds, we cannot, with our limited understanding of mental power, categorically deny them as a possibility.  This is the point that you make at the end of your post, but does not seem to be commensurate with the rest of your posts.  Apologies.
		
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No, I don't deny the possibility. There just isn't a shred of provable evidence that paranormal abilities exist, and stage magicians can recreate everything an animal communicator or psychic can do.

But you can't prove that no sheep can fly until you throw the last sheep in the world of a cliff, so never say never!


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## ycbm (12 September 2016)

f you are genuinely interested in this area then there is a great book available in PDF on the web charting the discoveries of quantum physics and valid scientific studies into psychic phenomena. It is The Holographic Universe by Michael Talbot, and it is well worth a look.
		
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I've taken a look at the theory and the book. Holographic Universe theory, an offshoot of string theory which is itself contentious,  isn't even accepted by most quantum physicists, and that's saying something. I'm sorry, but I don't see much to be gained by reading a book which shows how paranormal effects can be explained by a theory that we live in a giant video game like the Matrix.

We live on different planets on this issue I'm afraid


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## Irish gal (13 September 2016)

ycbm said:



			I've taken a look at the theory and the book. Holographic Universe theory, an offshoot of string theory which is itself contentious,  isn't even accepted by most quantum physicists, and that's saying something. I'm sorry, but I don't see much to be gained by reading a book which shows how paranormal effects can be explained by a theory that we live in a giant video game like the Matrix.

We live on different planets on this issue I'm afraid 

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That's actually not what this book says, but strangely, I'm not at all surprised to hear that from you.


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## Irish gal (13 September 2016)

ycbm said:



			No, I don't deny the possibility. There just isn't a shred of provable evidence that paranormal abilities exist, and stage magicians can recreate everything an animal communicator or psychic can do.

But you can't prove that no sheep can fly until you throw the last sheep in the world of a cliff, so never say never!
		
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You've been presented with scientific evidence but have willfully chosen to ignore it. Is that not the definition of closed minded??

Unfortunately, it's not feasible to debate this issue with you, as you have demonstrated by simply ignoring all evidence that doesn't suit your point of view. I won't be further responding to you as I might as well be talking to the wall.


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## Mike007 (13 September 2016)

To me ,the idea of horses talking is easier to get my head round than Quantum entanglement, yet the latter has been demonstrated and "God does play dice"


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## ycbm (13 September 2016)

Irish gal said:



			That's actually not what this book says, but strangely, I'm not at all surprised to hear that from you.
		
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Have you looked up Holographic Universe theory?

The book says that paranormal phenomena can be explained by a theory that the world is a holographic representation originating from somewhere outside space and time. Other scientists liken this to the film the Matrix.

Any phenomenon you want to dream up, including a flying sheep, can be explained by the world being a hologram being projected by a source outside space and time.

And while my mind remains perfectly open to the suggestion, I'll be waiting for more evidence before I believe any of it to be scientific fact, especially when most scientists think it's quantum nonsense.

You are right, there is no point in us discussing this. As I said before, we are on different planets with this. Unfortunately, if you assert that there is scientific evidence that genuine horse whisperers exist again and then I'll probably feel obliged to post again to point out that there isn't. Call me a sad Muppet


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## fburton (13 September 2016)

I am firmly believe that "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence", as Carl Sagan once said.

I also like this quote from the 18th century philosopher David Hume: "No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such a kind, that its falsehood would be more miraculous than the fact which it endeavours to establish."

So far, I have seen no 'extraordinary evidence' that convinces me or would convince, I suspect, a majority of scientists.


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## 9tails (13 September 2016)

What a shame, I was enjoying these stories.


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## fburton (13 September 2016)

Regrettably (or not), the title of the thread rather invited differing views!


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## 9tails (13 September 2016)

Different views sure, but not full on ridicule of anybody with a different view.


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## fburton (13 September 2016)

I wouldn't say there has been ridicule from either side - more robust debate. Obviously anyone wanting only to swap anecdotes and gain validation from a shared point of view will have come to the wrong thread!


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## paddy555 (13 September 2016)

can any of the scientists explain  scientifically how divining works? It must be fact that it works. Put a dowser in a strange place with no knowledge and they will find water (or a pipe or drain) by holding a rod. A good dowser will also estimate the volume/pressure of water (as in required for a borehole) So, scientifically how does it work?


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## fburton (13 September 2016)

paddy555 said:



			can any of the scientists explain  scientifically how divining works? It must be fact that it works. Put a dowser in a strange place with no knowledge and they will find water (or a pipe or drain) by holding a rod. A good dowser will also estimate the volume/pressure of water (as in required for a borehole) So, scientifically how does it work?
		
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One perspective on that question is in the video I linked to previously. Here's the bit where dowsing is examined:

https://youtu.be/Jve3p0ws-nI?t=6m23s


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## Siennasong (13 September 2016)

We have to also remember that scientists are certainly not always right and are constantly changing their minds.. When did science become the stamp of validity? The mystical/spiritual/mysterious things in the world cannot be explained by science because they are can't be 'measured' by data from the visual external world. Our modern day version of 'science' is a very new thing, before that we had alchemy, which expained things unimaginable and way before our time.. Things our scientist 'discover' now, the alchemists knew and explained a long long long time ago. I believe our scientific system is very weak and I certainly don't use the 'scientists' as a measure of validity and 'truth'.. Also many of these things that 'cant be explained' actually can be explained, if you look outside of the world of modern science and look into more ancient systems of knowledge (sufi metaphysics, yoga scriptures, alchemy etc etc).. I do believe whole heartedly in the more mysterious but I have never had any experience of horse whisperers so can't comment on that.. Of course to find the real from all the fake ones out there is a other story!!! Anyway, to believe certainly makes our world a more beautiful and magical one to live in!! &#55357;&#56842;


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## StarcatcherWilliam (13 September 2016)

Frumpoon said:



			Who is he?
		
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Initials are CW.



AShetlandBitMeOnce said:



			I am not necessarily a skeptic, I would be prepared to believe if I was persuaded.. But how would the horses be able to describe the inside of your house anyway? They have never been inside (I assume ) 

)
		
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Because the horse's spirit (the horse was dead) was inside the house with me at the time I was talking to the communicator on the phone.  

Sorry for late reply, I hadn't planned to come back to this thread at all because I knew what I'd written made me sound completely cuckoo haha!


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## jojo5 (13 September 2016)

We should also take into account that things which would have been 'unexplainable' in previous centuries have a full basis in science and technology now, so who knows what the future may hold in terms of the understanding of mental capability. Of course, in all of our history there have also been charlatans ( must look up where that word came from) who have been quick to jump on to experimental bandwagons and fleece anyone willing to accept ........


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## YorksG (13 September 2016)

jojo5 said:



			We should also take into account that things which would have been 'unexplainable' in previous centuries have a full basis in science and technology now, so who knows what the future may hold in terms of the understanding of mental capability. Of course, in all of our history there have also been charlatans ( must look up where that word came from) who have been quick to jump on to experimentalbandwagons and fleece anyone  willing to accept ........
		
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Indeed, those who said the world was spherical were treated as fools, charlatans and heretics when they first put forward the theory......


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## Rudolph's Red Nose (13 September 2016)

A couple of years ago our yard had a gentleman with the intials "RP" visit our yard - I have to say I was skeptic but also thought I would regret it if I didn't have it done as everyone else was - peer pressure.  

I kept saying when people asked me if I was going to have it done was "what if my horse hates me" - I have had him 14 years.  Anyway the first words from RP's were ... "he wants you to know, even though you wonder, that he truly thinks the world of you and wants to spend the rest of his time with you".   Some other things he said could have been easily interpreted from the surroundings but then there were other bits like he misses the black and white dog and wonders where he is and why he doesn't visit anymore .. I have a border collie and he used to run around in the field with my horse at my old yard when I was poo picking etc, there were lots of OMG how would he know moments with my horse and other horses on the yard, especially one who came to yard under tragic circumstances.

Do I believe - yes I think "RP" has a gift but I have seen another person in action and No they were not gifted, just good at reading horses and their surroundings.


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## paddy555 (13 September 2016)

fburton said:



			One perspective on that question is in the video I linked to previously. Here's the bit where dowsing is examined:

https://youtu.be/Jve3p0ws-nI?t=6m23s

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thanks. Any chance you could paraphrase his comments where dowsing is examined (or tell me where on the video) unfortunately it is 41 minutes.


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## jojo5 (13 September 2016)

Rudolph Red Nose -have pm'ed you.


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## fburton (13 September 2016)

paddy555 said:



			thanks. Any chance you could paraphrase his comments where dowsing is examined (or tell me where on the video) unfortunately it is 41 minutes.
		
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If you click on the link, it takes you to the appropriate segment which lasts 6 minutes or so.

ETA: To paraphrase: dowsing _doesn't_ work. Boring conclusion, and the discussion about psychology is much more interesting imo.


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## fburton (13 September 2016)

Siennasong said:



			When did science become the stamp of validity?
		
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I think it's more helpful to consider science as a _method _ of getting to the truth than a _label_ like 'organic' or '100% guaranteed'.




			I believe our scientific system is very weak
		
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Nothing and no one is perfect, but I believe the _scientific method_ is a really good way to get reliable knowledge, and in many cases the best. What are the alternatives?


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## fburton (13 September 2016)

YorksG said:



			Indeed, those who said the world was spherical were treated as fools, charlatans and heretics when they first put forward the theory......
		
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If it wasn't for science (the method) they might still be! (Strictly speaking it started out as a hypothesis rather than a theory.)


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## YorksG (13 September 2016)

fburton said:



			If it wasn't for science (the method) they might still be! (Strictly speaking it started out as a hypothesis rather than a theory.)
		
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Indeed, but the science of the time ridiculed the hypothesis (thank you so much for the correction, it added so much of value to the debate)
I will try and find the work by the attachment theory specialists, which supports the hypothesis of right brain to right brain communication between infants and their primary care givers and try and find the links.


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## fburton (13 September 2016)

YorksG said:



			Indeed, but the science of the time ridiculed the hypothesis (thank you so much for the correction, it added so much of value to the debate)
		
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It's fair to criticize scientists and other people for their narrow and dogmatic views; it's quite another thing to slam the process of science which did, after all, get to the truth of the matter eventually. If you are against the way science works (and I believe it does work!), that is a whole other discussion.




			I will try and find the work by the attachment theory specialists, which supports the hypothesis of right brain to right brain communication between infants and their primary care givers and try and find the links.
		
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Thanks, I would be interested to see that!


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## fatpiggy (13 September 2016)

paddy555 said:



			but one is not always dowsing for water. You could be dowsing to follow a water pipe which is a man made thing or to follow drains etc. 
Those pipes and drains are not biological necessities. There is some ability in the dowser to find these, some communication, some fine tuning in their ability. 

If people have the ability to find man made drains underground I don't see it is beyond belief that some can communicate with the horses they are with. Water dowsing is very finely tuned, the more you do the more it leaps out at you. If you have the ability to communicate with animals and do it all the time I cannot see any difference. 

I am not disputing there are many charlatans who have latched onto the bandwagon, but there are some genuine ones. Julie Dicker used to tell me she would walk across a yard of horses (whether she was working or not) and the horses would be calling out to her (silently) I did actually believe her as I had seen too many things she had done that were accurate but didn't really have an explanation. 
\Whisperers (or whatever we want to call them) also have the ability to pick up pain by their own feel rather than watching the horse's reaction. That is not difficult, think if you are massaging a horse and come to a painful area. The pain goes straight up your arm and you have to shake it away. That all adds to the picture they build up. Julie used to dowse horses as well to locate pain. 

I think most people with their own horses who know them well and are tuned in sense in someway. When I go out of the kitchen door into the yard in a morning most days I feel nothing and all is well. Then one day I get a feeling of dread as I go out. I haven't heard anything or seen anything but I know a horse is in trouble and for some reason I have a good idea of which horse. (out of a dozen or so) 
When my donkey died I knew the minute I opened the house door he was dead. He was not old, he was fine the night before and 2 fields away so I couldn't see him. There was no reason for him to die (possible heart attack) but I sensed it immediately I was outside. 

I do remember one horses whisperer however who insisted the top door was closed before he started work. Unfortunately he was not a very bright whisperer as he was in the foaling box with CCTV and a captive audience inside eagerly watching every move. Charlatan certainly did apply to him!
		
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The subject of dowsing is rather interesting.  Where I grew up in Cornwall we had a local dowser who would locate springs for the farmers etc and he could predict flow rate etc.  He spent many years doing it and everyone recommended Don because he got the results.  He blew up old mine chimneys as well as a sideline.  A very good friend of mine recently retired from working for local authority as a civil engineer.  He had his degree in that plus another in Environmental Geology.  He regularly dowsed for hidden utilities pipes/lines on ground being prepared for redevelopment where the plans had been lost and it was cheaper and quicker than more "scientific" methods.  He can't explain how it works either, but he got the results and so that was all that mattered.  I had a go with dowsing rods once and I have to say it was WEIRD.  I was blindfolded, turned around a good few times and then sent off to locate something.  As I stepped close to the target, those blasted rods gently turned in my hands, and back again as I stepped back and away.  I tried it several times, coming in from different directions, always blindfold and got it right every time.  My degree is in Geology and I can't explain it but I know what I experienced and it quite spooked me.


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## YorksG (13 September 2016)

fburton said:



			It's fair to criticize scientists and other people for their narrow and dogmatic views; it's quite another thing to slam the process of science which did, after all, get to the truth of the matter eventually. If you are against the way science works (and I believe it does work!), that is a whole other discussion.

Thanks, I would be interested to see that!
		
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I have no intention of slamming the whole scientific process, but do have a problem with not comparing like with like. My own experiences of "communication", with survivors of trauma, was not based on a random meeting with them, it was within an attachment based therapeutic process, when I knew the "subject" and they knew me. To try and suggest that this can be proved or disproved by randomly describing a hundred strangers kitchen work tops, is to miss the                                     point entirely, and frankly quite insulting to those people I have shared the experience with.
I can't find my dissertation stuff with the references in it at the moment, but will dig them out later today.


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## ycbm (13 September 2016)

YorksG said:



			I have no intention of slamming the whole scientific process, but do have a problem with not comparing like with like. My own experiences of "communication", with survivors of trauma, was not based on a random meeting with them, it was within an attachment based therapeutic process, when I knew the "subject" and they knew me. To try and suggest that this can be proved or disproved by randomly describing a hundred strangers kitchen work tops, is to miss the                                     point entirely, and frankly quite insulting to those people I have shared the experience with.
I can't find my dissertation stuff with the references in it at the moment, but will dig them out later today.
		
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It would indeed have been insulting if I had actually done that. You referenced the kitchen worktop incident as a separate thing from your trauma incidents. I responded on both points separately, I did not connect the two. Only you have done that.

I'm off now to Google brain to brain communication in mothers and their babies. I really hope there will be something in that one, because the bond between a mother and child can be so strong..


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## YorksG (13 September 2016)

ycbm said:



			It would indeed have been insulting if I had actually done that. You referenced the kitchen worktop incident as a separate thing from your trauma incidents. I responded on both points separately, I did not connect the two. Only you have done that.

I'm off now to Google brain to brain communication in mothers and their babies. I really hope there will be something in that one, because the bond between a mother and child can be so strong..
		
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The three examples appeared to me to be obviously linked by context, given the circumstances. I had described about trauma survivors.
I would suggest that you begin with Charles Bowlby junior and work outwards from there, for interesting discussion around primary care givers communication with infants.


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## turnbuckle (13 September 2016)

That's all getting quite technical...but to add my tuppence worth....I'm slightly doubtful about the "I need a new numnah and can I only go to shows if they're on a Friday please" variety of whisperer - although I have seen enough odd stuff never to totally rule anything out - but as far as I can see there are certainly folk out there with an "enhanced" gift for communicating across species....


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## paddy555 (13 September 2016)

fatpiggy said:



			The subject of dowsing is rather interesting.  Where I grew up in Cornwall we had a local dowser who would locate springs for the farmers etc and he could predict flow rate etc.  He spent many years doing it and everyone recommended Don because he got the results.  He blew up old mine chimneys as well as a sideline.  A very good friend of mine recently retired from working for local authority as a civil engineer.  He had his degree in that plus another in Environmental Geology.  He regularly dowsed for hidden utilities pipes/lines on ground being prepared for redevelopment where the plans had been lost and it was cheaper and quicker than more "scientific" methods.  He can't explain how it works either, but he got the results and so that was all that mattered.  I had a go with dowsing rods once and I have to say it was WEIRD.  I was blindfolded, turned around a good few times and then sent off to locate something.  As I stepped close to the target, those blasted rods gently turned in my hands, and back again as I stepped back and away.  I tried it several times, coming in from different directions, always blindfold and got it right every time.  My degree is in Geology and I can't explain it but I know what I experienced and it quite spooked me.
		
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I've dowsed for years and you have no control over those blasted rods!! they just do it. 

When I wanted a borehole installed I dowsed and also the firm drilling it dowsed for the best place. I dowsed over it before drilling with my own rod to see the reaction for such a large known volume of water. Then the firm came back to drill. The dowser told me to try his rod over the site. His rod had a large ball of isopon at the tip. He knew what was going to happen but I didn't. His rod was so energised as he was such a professional that when I used it it reacted by not only going up to the water but hitting me very firmly in the face with the ball of isopon. Took a while for him to stop laughing at my expense. How a rod could be so energised by someone I have no idea but I was never able to get that reaction from my own rod. Scientifically that cannot make sense.


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## Slightly Foxed (13 September 2016)

fburton said:



			Not 110%? :frown3: Oh well. :biggrin3:

'Fraid I'm 100% skeptical, knowing what is possible in cold reading and how people focus on relevant (but coincidental) detail and ignore the irrelevant and incorrect.
		
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Need a 'like' button


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## Slightly Foxed (13 September 2016)

DTV said:



			Oh yes i believe.But I also believe the world is flat,Elvis is alive and honest politician's exist.Livery had one come out the other week.She hangs on her every word.Amongst the stunning revelations were things like,horse A wants a certain colour halter,horse B wants a certain colour rug,etc.But the one that really promoted my best John Cleese wide eyed stare was the fact that my gelding was taking the mickey out of her gelding over the fence.WHAAAAT!!!.How exactly?.'You look like a Filly in that purple rug',Who cut your mane?,it looks silly','Your bum's so big it blocks out the sun'.LOL.So errrr NO!.Ok for a bit of fun,but i can think of more productive (and fun) ways of blowing £60!.
		
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Like


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