# Foal born with no eyes :-(



## Stinkbomb (1 June 2012)

I hope this postdoes not offend anyone or upset anyone. That is not my intention. And i am in NO WAY critisising what these owners have done in this situation. I read today about a foal who had been born with no eyes and was PTS. My question is if this had happened to you would you pts? I have no experience of breeding and im really not sure what i would do but if the foal is healthy in every other way is it cruel to keep it alive?


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## Flummoxed (1 June 2012)

Yes, I believe I would have PTS had I been in this situation.


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## marmalade76 (1 June 2012)

Me too.


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## Amos (1 June 2012)

100% absolutely no question.


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## noodle_ (1 June 2012)

yeah same. sadly.


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## Sportznight (1 June 2012)

Yep, I'd do the same - for a horse, dog, cat or any animal really.  What quality of life does a blind animal have?  Especially a flight animal!


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## 9tails (1 June 2012)

Yes, I would definitely PTS.  If an older horse who gradually went blind and was coping, probably not.


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## tikino (1 June 2012)

yeh 100% with out ant doubt i would pts


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## amy_b (1 June 2012)

agree Im afraid. 
poor thing.


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## YasandCrystal (1 June 2012)

pts - me too


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## AdorableAlice (1 June 2012)

How an earth could a foal, a flight animal, be kept without eyes.

Take emotion out and consider what you would have.

That foal would be terrified, unlikely to stand because sight and balance are linked.  How could it possibly be cared for.

Tragic shame but an instant pts for me and the mare offered as a foster mare immediately.


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## greasedweasel (1 June 2012)

As long as it wasn't overly distressed I would perhaps keep it going a week or so to offer the mare as a foster but intention would be to PTS.


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## Amymay (1 June 2012)

Flummoxed said:



			Yes, I believe I would have PTS had I been in this situation.
		
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God yes.


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## MegStables (1 June 2012)

I don't know, if he was healthy in every other way and I had the time to work with him, I don't think I would put him to sleep. He wouldn't know any other way of living or the fact that others can see so he would find ways of getting around. It has been done before you just have to find other ways of communicating but if you work with him from the moment he was a foal, I think he could still live a happy life with hard work and dedication. He would naturally be much more wary than other horses and more prone to injury.

Although obviously he could never be properly ridden. Saying all of this I don't know what I would've done in that situation.


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## Amos (1 June 2012)

MegStables said:



			I don't know, if he was healthy in every other way and I had the time to work with him, I don't think I would put him to sleep. He wouldn't know any other way of living or the fact that others can see so he would find ways of getting around. It has been done before you just have to find other ways of communicating but if you work with him from the moment he was a foal, I think he could still live a happy life with hard work and dedication. He would naturally be much more wary than other horses and more prone to injury.

Although obviously he could never be properly ridden. Saying all of this I don't know what I would've done in that situation.
		
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I don't mean to be funny but - you can not be serious!!!


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## WelshGal (1 June 2012)

Having worked with a horse that was born with no eyes i would say no providing it was healthy and the mare accpeted it. The horse i worked with was inprinted and when weaned give a mini shetland which had poor back legs as a buddy and they now live together. He is also ridden and competed in dressage at a low level.


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## alfiesmum (1 June 2012)

def pts


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## Maesfen (1 June 2012)

MegStables said:



			I don't know, if he was healthy in every other way and I had the time to work with him, I don't think I would put him to sleep. He wouldn't know any other way of living or the fact that others can see so he would find ways of getting around. It has been done before you just have to find other ways of communicating but if you work with him from the moment he was a foal, I think he could still live a happy life with hard work and dedication. He would naturally be much more wary than other horses and more prone to injury.

Although obviously he could never be properly ridden. Saying all of this I don't know what I would've done in that situation.
		
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So you're going to be with it for 24 hours every day for the rest of its life?

Honestly, I do sometimes wonder how some minds work as they certainly don't ever think about the quality of life for the poor animal but that's OK, they're keeping the poor blighter alive, what could be better than that. 

To OP, I wouldn't have to think twice.


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## AdorableAlice (1 June 2012)

MegStables said:



			I don't know, if he was healthy in every other way and I had the time to work with him, I don't think I would put him to sleep. He wouldn't know any other way of living or the fact that others can see so he would find ways of getting around. It has been done before you just have to find other ways of communicating but if you work with him from the moment he was a foal, I think he could still live a happy life with hard work and dedication. He would naturally be much more wary than other horses and more prone to injury.

Although obviously he could never be properly ridden. Saying all of this I don't know what I would've done in that situation.
		
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You are having a laugh.

He is blind.  What are you going to do, give him a guide dog  to get him through stable doors, gates, barbwire fence, other horses, find his water, tell him not to fall over.  I must stop, if I say what I want to I will be banned.


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## eventrider23 (1 June 2012)

Definitely PTS.  Know a stud that had this a year or two ago and same 0 foal was immediately PTS.  Horses can survive with one eye but there is no way one could live happily with none!


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## cptrayes (1 June 2012)

Surely this is a joke?

Someone would keep alive a flight animal of the size a horse will grow to, born with no eyes?

Words fail me.


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## lachlanandmarcus (1 June 2012)

PTS. Kinder to the foal. end of.


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## AdorableAlice (1 June 2012)

cptrayes said:



			Surely this is a joke?

Someone would keep alive a flight animal of the size a horse will grow to, born with no eyes?

Words fail me.
		
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I am with you, of course, cptrayes.  But if this a joke, it's a dreadfully sick and needless joke.


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## Hollycatt (1 June 2012)

Yes, PTS stright away and hopefully as others have said find a foster foal for the mare. Foal has no concept of its mortality. Goodness knows what other abnormalities may be present.  An adult horse (or often donkey  ) that has gradually gone blind can often be kept happily - depending on the animal in question. I have seen quite a few donks in their 30's going blind but otherwise healthy and happy - they know their environment and where everything is so were quite content. A newborn is totally different.


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## wits end (1 June 2012)

WelshGal said:



			Having worked with a horse that was born with no eyes i would say no providing it was healthy and the mare accpeted it. The horse i worked with was inprinted and when weaned give a mini shetland which had poor back legs as a buddy and they now live together. He is also ridden and competed in dressage at a low level.
		
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Whoever was in charge of making this decision has some seriously flawed ideas...



MegStables said:



			I don't know, if he was healthy in every other way and I had the time to work with him, I don't think I would put him to sleep. He wouldn't know any other way of living or the fact that others can see so he would find ways of getting around. It has been done before you just have to find other ways of communicating but if you work with him from the moment he was a foal, I think he could still live a happy life with hard work and dedication. He would naturally be much more wary than other horses and more prone to injury.

Although obviously he could never be properly ridden. Saying all of this I don't know what I would've done in that situation.
		
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No words really for either of you two. PTS immediately. Horses rely on sight for everything, from relationships in the herd, to  - you know - not dying walking around their pasture... Keeping a blind foal alive is probably never going to end well, I see no possibility of any quality of life.


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## gadetra (1 June 2012)

PTS no question.


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## djlynwood (1 June 2012)

Sportznight said:



			Yep, I'd do the same - for a horse, dog, cat or any animal really.  What quality of life does a blind animal have?  Especially a flight animal!
		
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Ive known a few blind dogs who cope very well and doing obedience training. But, its a different ball game for a horse.


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## Mugsgame (1 June 2012)

Pts without a shadow of a doubt, extremely upsetting for all involved but the only viable option.  Sadly the small but very real risk you take when breeding any livestock.


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## Capriole (1 June 2012)

PTS without a shadow of a doubt. I cannot conceive of the mind that thinks keeping such a foal alive is a kind option.


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## charleysummer (1 June 2012)

100% PTS without a second thought. 'Quality not quantity', this horse would have poor quality of life


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## christine48 (1 June 2012)

Definately would have PTS


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## christine48 (1 June 2012)

MegStables said:



			I don't know, if he was healthy in every other way and I had the time to work with him, I don't think I would put him to sleep. He wouldn't know any other way of living or the fact that others can see so he would find ways of getting around. It has been done before you just have to find other ways of communicating but if you work with him from the moment he was a foal, I think he could still live a happy life with hard work and dedication. He would naturally be much more wary than other horses and more prone to injury.

Although obviously he could never be properly ridden. Saying all of this I don't know what I would've done in that situation.
		
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What planet are you on? It would have no quality of life, I doubt you'd be able to even turn it out safely.


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## Alba (1 June 2012)

I too would PTS without question

but

Totally blind horses can be ridden and this one and others are winning at dressage (put blind dressage horse into google and there are videos etc)

http://www.valianttrust.org/quest.html


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## Amos (1 June 2012)

Alba said:



			I too would PTS without question

but

Totally blind horses can be ridden and this one and others are winning at dressage (put blind dressage horse into google and there are videos etc)

http://www.valianttrust.org/quest.html

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Yes, but there is a big difference with this....the horse was not born blind.


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## Alba (1 June 2012)

Indeed there is, but if you read it you will see how difficult it was even with a horse that could previously see, his owner nearly got flattened on numerous occassions.


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## Amaranta (1 June 2012)

PTS without doubt and anyone who would not is cruel and selfish no matter what they think their reasons are


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## Cinnamontoast (1 June 2012)

PTS, definitely, any animal blind from birth or soon after.


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## cruiseline (1 June 2012)

MegStables said:



			I don't know, if he was healthy in every other way and I had the time to work with him, I don't think I would put him to sleep. He wouldn't know any other way of living or the fact that others can see so he would find ways of getting around. It has been done before you just have to find other ways of communicating but if you work with him from the moment he was a foal, I think he could still live a happy life with hard work and dedication. He would naturally be much more wary than other horses and more prone to injury.

Although obviously he could never be properly ridden. Saying all of this I don't know what I would've done in that situation.
		
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Seriously, you must be joking!!!!!




			Having worked with a horse that was born with no eyes i would say no providing it was healthy and the mare accpeted it. The horse i worked with was inprinted and when weaned give a mini shetland which had poor back legs as a buddy and they now live together. He is also ridden and competed in dressage at a low level.
		
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I really can't believe that you would even consider this!!!

Obviously I would PTS and offer the mare as a foster, if possible


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## Dry Rot (1 June 2012)

I think it's called "responsible breeding". Anyone embarking on breeding any animal should be aware of the possibilities and never hesitate to take the correct decision. Death is a natural part of life; hopefully we can make it a peaceful and swift one for the animals in our care, if that is the sensible choice.


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## Digger123 (1 June 2012)

Dry Rot said:



			I think it's called "responsible breeding". Anyone embarking on breeding any animal should be aware of the possibilities and never hesitate to take the correct decision. Death is a natural part of life; hopefully we can make it a peaceful and swift one for the animals in our care, if that is the sensible choice.
		
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Totally agree with dry rot's sentiment. I wouldn't hesitate and have the foal pts.


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## Kadastorm (1 June 2012)

PTS without any doubt.


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## TED2010 (1 June 2012)

PTS no question. Sad yes but no life for an animal, keeping alive would be nothing but selfish.


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## Capriole (1 June 2012)

There was a pic on my facebook recently of a poor little foal with a horribly deformed skull, (no idea what the outcome was, PTS or not) but the 'aww so cute, I want one' type comments turned my stomach. Poor bugger.


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## OiskiPoiski (1 June 2012)

TED2010 said:



			PTS no question. Sad yes but no life for an animal, keeping alive would be nothing but selfish.
		
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Entirely agree.


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## jenbleep (1 June 2012)

PTS, no question.

Poor foal


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## Stinkbomb (2 June 2012)

AdorableAlice and cptrays are you refering to my post as a sick joke???

I was mearly asking a question. I have known of horses that are totally blind and read of foals born blind that have been kept and grown up blind. I was mearly asking what others opinion was on it. I can assure you i do not joke about blindness having lost one of my own eyes in the past.


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## Eothain (2 June 2012)

Stinkbomb said:



			AdorableAlice and cptrays are you refering to my post as a sick joke???

I was mearly asking a question. I have known of horses that are totally blind and read of foals born blind that have been kept and grown up blind. I was mearly asking what others opinion was on it. I can assure you i do not joke about blindness having lost one of my own eyes in the past.
		
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I don't think they were referring to your original post as a joke. Just to the two posters who thought some good might come out of not putting such a poor foal out of it's misery.

I wouldn't think twice about it. I'd just be annoyed about the money I'd have spent for nothing!


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## jamesmead (2 June 2012)

Whilst I can understand the gut reaction here I'd have to say that an animal born blind and brought up without being reliant on sight is far more likely to adapt and cope than an animal blinded in later life. It's ridiculous to suggest that it would be in a permanent state of panic ; when you think about it, horses don't die of panic when the sun sets, or walk into the walls of their unlit stable. They tend to be calmer on a dark night than a moonlit one; my worst fence breaker was always particularly active on a shiny night. I remember being told of carriage horses that a totally blind horse was safer than a horse with imperfect vision, as long as it trusted its driver. Again, carriage horses have blinkers specifically to restrict their vision and prevent panic. And has no-one heard of a horse being blindfolded to calm it?

So I think that Megstables deserves a little more respect for what is actually rather a courageous reply given the strength of feeling against allowing the foal to live. I don't think that keeping this foal amounts to cruelty, given a sufficiently dedicated owner.

Myself, I would put the foal down, but if I'm totally honest it wouldn't be out of mercy; it would be because it would use up my slender resources (time, money, space, stabling) for limited returns. 

One thing that needs to be considered, though; this is a fault which is thought to have a genetic component. I wouldn't wish to breed again from either the sire or the dam.


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## rachi0 (2 June 2012)

I'd put it down without a hesitation...


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## Dry Rot (2 June 2012)

When in doubt (and can there really be any doubt in this case?), follow Nature. If this foal was born in the wild, how long would it survive? And it's death would be a lot more cruel and gory than a prick from a needle. What purpose does it serve to keep such an animal alive? The only one I can think of is an ego trip for the owner.


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## cptrayes (2 June 2012)

Stinkbomb said:



			AdorableAlice and cptrays are you refering to my post as a sick joke???

I was mearly asking a question. I have known of horses that are totally blind and read of foals born blind that have been kept and grown up blind. I was mearly asking what others opinion was on it. I can assure you i do not joke about blindness having lost one of my own eyes in the past.
		
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I'm sorry if my choice of words offended you and sympathise with your own loss of sight.  I was so absolutely stunned that anyone would even ask the question that I thought you might actually have posted to see what kind of argument resulted. I did not and  would not have described it as a "sick" joke. It's a pretty common thing for people on this forum to do and I apologise for not realising that you are not one of them.


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## Stinkbomb (2 June 2012)

cptrayes said:



			I'm sorry if my choice of words offended you and sympathise with your own loss of sight.  I was so absolutely stunned that anyone would even ask the question that I thought you might actually have posted to see what kind of argument resulted. I did not and  would not have described it as a "sick" joke. It's a pretty common thing for people on this forum to do and I apologise for not realising that you are not one of them.
		
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No problem! people who know my posts on here know i am not that kind of person!! I was asking an honest question as it had been a discussion after reading about it between my friends and i was surprised at how many people would consider allowing it to live. Personally i would PTS as i cant even consider the amount of time and effort a foal like this would take. Having posted it it appears some people on here would consider letting it live too. I feel very sorry for the owners as the foal was healthy in all other respects and it must have been a hard thing to do. :-(


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## koeffee (2 June 2012)

Stinkbomb said:



			I hope this postdoes not offend anyone or upset anyone. That is not my intention. And i am in NO WAY critisising what these owners have done in this situation. I read today about a foal who had been born with no eyes and was PTS. My question is if this had happened to you would you pts? I have no experience of breeding and im really not sure what i would do but if the foal is healthy in every other way is it cruel to keep it alive?
		
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Hi this happened to me about 20yrs ago and yes i pts, no life for a foal.


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## Montyforever (3 June 2012)

I would PTS no doubt, it's hard enough to keep a horse with full sight from injuring itself and panicking so it would be unfair with a foal. I've known two older horses that are blind and in their 30s, one coped well everything was kept the same and she didn't go out with other horses so she was fine and she didn't keep knocking herself or walking into things as all her other senses were good. The other .. Well the owner obviously thought life at all costs and also ignored a few other crippling conditions! So there's a lot more things to consider when they are older


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## Mugsgame (3 June 2012)

It's totally different though, isn't it - a foal born blind as opposed and elderly horse losing its sight.  I have to say, I'm not sure I would put any of mine through being blind but having said that I knew a working shire whose sight gradually deteriorated to the point of near blindness - his owners had the luck to find him a small companion who literally became his guide pony, they also had the facilities to allow him his retirement in familiar paddocks and barns, just him and his buddy.  They were a smashing pair and after many years they were Pts together, the shire due to onset of lameness and the pony (ex pit pony) who was rather ancient and had started to struggle with his kidneys. Both had had a good innings prior to their ailments (and after the pit).


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## weston (3 June 2012)

I read this on Facebook and really feel for the owner, when you have animals you have to do right by them, and PTS was the right decision.
I have heard of a number of foals being born without one or two eyes and as a breeder wonder if it could be linked to a particular stallion/blood line?

I would be very interested to hear from people who have bred foals with this devastating result


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## Baggybreeches (4 June 2012)

Sportznight said:



			Yep, I'd do the same - for a horse, dog, cat or any animal really.  What quality of life does a blind animal have?  Especially a flight animal!
		
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^this^


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## magic104 (5 June 2012)

jamesmead said:



			Whilst I can understand the gut reaction here I'd have to say that an animal born blind and brought up without being reliant on sight is far more likely to adapt and cope than an animal blinded in later life. It's ridiculous to suggest that it would be in a permanent state of panic ; when you think about it, horses don't die of panic when the sun sets, or walk into the walls of their unlit stable. They tend to be calmer on a dark night than a moonlit one; my worst fence breaker was always particularly active on a shiny night. I remember being told of carriage horses that a totally blind horse was safer than a horse with imperfect vision, as long as it trusted its driver. Again, carriage horses have blinkers specifically to restrict their vision and prevent panic. And has no-one heard of a horse being blindfolded to calm it?

So I think that Megstables deserves a little more respect for what is actually rather a courageous reply given the strength of feeling against allowing the foal to live. I don't think that keeping this foal amounts to cruelty, given a sufficiently dedicated owner.

Myself, I would put the foal down, but if I'm totally honest it wouldn't be out of mercy; it would be because it would use up my slender resources (time, money, space, stabling) for limited returns. 

One thing that needs to be considered, though; this is a fault which is thought to have a genetic component. I wouldn't wish to breed again from either the sire or the dam.
		
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Driving is one area that they can cope especially if it is as a pair or team.  As for water, they can smell this so not that much of an issue.  Their keep would take a lot of managing, so it would be cruel to keep one unless their needs can be met.  I would be another who would PTS.  But that is no reason to have a go at the 2 posters who have put another view point across.  The above post seems to be the only one that has a balanced view & points, why is that?


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## koeffee (5 June 2012)

I have replied but i will also add, my foal was born with his pupils and nothing else they were just connected to an empty socket, he was on his feet and born in the field, (i was 14yrs and didnt have a clue) i would have loved to have tried but having seen him fall into the ditch then cut his face in our old stone stables the decision for us was made it wasnt fair with the facilites we had? but foals love playing and he wouldnt of had the quality of life foals need. i also gelded the pony stallion and returned the mare to ridden work


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## springer1021 (5 June 2012)

Yes, I would have pts aswell.


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