# Follow up of numnah slipping under saddle - saddle fit pics :(



## Tiarella (27 January 2014)

following on from this post http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/foru...y-saddle-cloth-from-under-my-saddle-any-ideas

I rode this lunch time in my friends gel pad, it tipped the saddle a little forward because of the fluff at the back but the saddlecloth did stay in place better compared to how much it was moving, but still moved far too much. I took some back confo shots and pics of saddle on his back too to see if anyone could shed some light. I know his conformation isnt brilliant, he is long in the back and croup high, but so are many other horses and they still have saddles that fit!

This saddle was fitted to him 6 days ago...










































Im absolutely losing the will to live. Im now spending thousands on new saddles when my budget was in the hundreds and I still cant find anything suitable. My saddle fitter swore by the bates saddle and it would be perfect for him.


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## PerfectPony (27 January 2014)

Hello there, I had a problem with Bates fitting my Connie.  Do not think they are the right fit for something with not a lot of wither.  He is currently in a Farringdon dressage saddle (custom fit) and a Native Saddle Company GP.  Both don't slip and seem to suit him.  Have a look on Saddles Direct for inspiration...


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## Tiarella (27 January 2014)

I was told a bates saddle would be perfect for him due to having little wither and being flat backed....

this is becoming such a stress


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## be positive (27 January 2014)

It looks to me as if the saddle is sliding back, not much but a little, the girth is far back also so the chances are the whole thing is moving backwards, can you try different girth straps and see if that helps, is the girth short enough so not up too high, that can make a huge difference to stability, but that said the saddle should not be moving if fitted correctly. Was it fitted with the fluffy pad, as that will make a difference.


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## mjcssjw2 (27 January 2014)

did your fitter fit the saddle with both the half pad and a full numnah, just wondering as that may be like trying to squeeze more socks onto your feet and expecting your shoes to still fit, but sorry if this is in your other thread as I have not seen it.


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## Tiarella (27 January 2014)

You really need to read other thread to get the full story.

Saddle fitter fitted this saddle 4 weeks ago, saddle cloths slipped, she came out 6 days ago and adjusted saddle again, saddlecloth still slipped so today I borrowed a friends acavallo gel pad to see if they would stop the slipping but it hasn't.


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## mjcssjw2 (27 January 2014)

ok fair enough - it was just a thought


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## TigerTail (27 January 2014)

Have you got a pic of the right side sans saddle? His left side shows muscle atrophy so is the saddler fitting to his current shape, which wouldnt allow that to recover, or leaving room and therefore you are padding up to let it grow?

Have a look at these
http://www.enlightenedequitation.com/flexee_intro.htm


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## SuperH (27 January 2014)

I'm not a saddle fitter but looking at the first two photos I would say the girth is too far back.  Have you tried a forward cut girth?  What girth did your fitter recommend you use with the saddle?  

I had trouble with saddles slipping back on my youngster and the fitter said saddle was fine but shape of the pony needed a forward cut girth.  Switched girths and no more slippage troubles.


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## Slightlyconfused (27 January 2014)

To my untrained eye I think the problem is the fact your horse has a huge shoulder. we are currently have the same problem with our tb, his topline and muscles have built up really well. he is in a wintec vsd that for the past four years has fit him perfectly but the last few months has started moving back. my saddle fitter thinks we need to try a shaped girth that allows for the movement of his shoulder, she said about the fair fax ones but you can get a cheaper make.

does it move without anything on?


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## ester (27 January 2014)

I thought bates were same as wintecs ie banana shaped tree unless they have changed it so surprised it was deemed perfect on that count though as far as I can tell the fit looks ok. He doesn't look like he needs a forwards girth to me. Not like Frank's groove anyway.


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## tallyho! (27 January 2014)

Very atrophied whither. You will always have this problem unless you build muscle in that area again. I had same issues back in 2009 with my boy. Once his musculature improved, we never had a problem. 

That saddle is way too high at the back by the way you will never be in a good position. It's not the saddle, its the horses back. You can't fit a saddle to a bad back, you will always have problems. You need a saddle to allow the muscle to build back up again not to impinge it further.

I would look into EE saddles or contact a balance saddle fitter. Lavinia Mitchell came highly recommended to me and solved it for me so I would recommend her on to others.


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## Tiarella (27 January 2014)

TigerTail said:



			Have you got a pic of the right side sans saddle? His left side shows muscle atrophy so is the saddler fitting to his current shape, which wouldnt allow that to recover, or leaving room and therefore you are padding up to let it grow?

Have a look at these
http://www.enlightenedequitation.com/flexee_intro.htm

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He is actually weaker on his right side of his wither, this is still building up.

I would never use one of them EE saddles - my ex sharer used one on him and the fit was absolutely diobolical no matter what you did to alter it.


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## Willow1306 (27 January 2014)

Have PM'ed you.


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## Fools Motto (27 January 2014)

Would a 5 point breast plate help?
I know this isn't going to be a cure, but can't see, with his shape there is going to be one for some time - least not a 'quick, cheap' cure.
Also, have you used anything other than your saddle pad (+ friends sheepskin gel pad?).. is less more?


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## Tiarella (27 January 2014)

tallyho! said:



			Very atrophied whither. You will always have this problem unless you build muscle in that area again. I had same issues back in 2009 with my boy. Once his musculature improved, we never had a problem. 

That saddle is way too high at the back by the way you will never be in a good position. It's not the saddle, its the horses back. You can't fit a saddle to a bad back, you will always have problems. You need a saddle to allow the muscle to build back up again not to impinge it further.

I would look into EE saddles or contact a balance saddle fitter. Lavinia Mitchell came highly recommended to me and solved it for me so I would recommend her on to others.
		
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Thankyou for your advice  

Unfortunately he is weak over his back/ wither area as he went awfully lame April 2012, had to have a long time off so it's still building back up now - hence the reason for the adjustable saddle to alter it as he comes up. 

Please read comment above about EE saddles - they just don't work for him at all.

Do you think his conformation will always be an issue with regards to saddle fit? He is croup high so I don't think his back will ever have a level top line. But yes, I always feel like I'm tipping forward regardless.


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## springtime1331 (27 January 2014)

Trying to find a saddle to fit for mine who has similar issues to you - flat back, croup high and some withers. I'm going to try native pony saddle company but will probably regret it when she grows out of it - she's only rising 5 at the moment.


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## Walrus (27 January 2014)

Don't know if it's helpful since you've bought this saddle but for my flat back, low withered, big shouldered native I went with the Native pony saddle company (make sure it's the one run by Andrea Hicks as there are a couple with similar names). They were patient, fabulous and generally brilliant and after 5 months of attempting to get one that fitted us both I was losing the will to live. I also chose a curved girth as my pony has a very forward girth groove and previously my saddle was sliding forwards (as well as all over the place!). The new saddle has made such a massive difference to my pony's way of going I am slightly evangelical about it but I started with a budget of a few hundred, doubled it and it was worth every penny!


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## TigerTail (27 January 2014)

Did you have the EE saddle actually fitted by a fitter? It certainly wouldnt have caused the atrophy you have presently.

You can't fit a treed saddle to a shape like that and expect it to be stable, by its very nature it has a rigid frame - therefore its going to tip. Riding on top of a saddle that doesnt fit on a shape like that is just going to exacerbate the problem. 

Im glad Tally ho mentioned the shape of the saddle - look at where the stirrup bars are in relation to the seat!


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## Tiarella (27 January 2014)

So where do I go from here? Do I do a formal complaint that saddle fitter sold me a saddle that isn't actually suited to my horse at all? This is so stressful, I just want a saddle that fits!


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## Tiarella (27 January 2014)

This is a pic of me sitting in the saddle if that helps aynone?


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## Bobbly (27 January 2014)

How many girth straps does it have? If it has four you could try just using the front (point strap) and the rear (balance strap), with out all the numnah padding underneath.


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## Spot_On (27 January 2014)

Another one who recommends Native Pony Saddles! My cob had no withers and a flat back, only thing that fitted him.


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## Tiarella (27 January 2014)

Yes I could try using diff girth straps. I saddle fitter told me to use the 2nd and 3rd and leave off the 1st to give more room for his shoulders to move and stops it bouncing around on his back.


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## alainax (27 January 2014)

Bobbly said:



			How many girth straps does it have? If it has four you could try just using the front (point strap) and the rear (balance strap), with out all the numnah padding underneath.
		
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I was going to say something along these lines. Place the girth in the girth groove, use the front and back girth strap - and get rid of all the padding under the saddle. 

Do you have any semi sturdy saddle clothes? Like ones that are not thick and bulky, but have some shape to them? Something you couldn't really crunkle up like a piece of material, as it would spring back and hold its shape. These are much less likely to crease and move like in your first photo.  

Something like this - 







Id try a more sturdy non bulky saddle pad, and the first and last girth straps before contacting the saddler again.


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## Tiarella (27 January 2014)

alainax said:



			I was going to say something along these lines. Place the girth in the girth groove, use the front and back girth strap - and get rid of all the padding under the saddle. 

Do you have any semi sturdy saddle clothes? Like ones that are not thick and bulky, but have some shape to them? Something you couldn't really crunkle up like a piece of material, as it would spring back and hold its shape. These are much less likely to crease and move like in your first photo.  

Something like this - 







Id try a more sturdy non bulky saddle pad, and the first and last girth straps before contacting the saddler again.
		
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I have tried a sturdy one, a numed one with the tiny diamonds so really tight and sturdy. It still moved back under and out the back of the gullet and slipped further back than the front of the saddle. 

Would people say an elastic or none elastic girth would be better?

Saddle fitter told me to use a non elastic on the 2nd and 3rd as if I use it on the 1st the saddle bounces round at the back.

I had full trust in this saddle fitter too


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## tallyho! (27 January 2014)

rachaelstar said:



			Thankyou for your advice  

Unfortunately he is weak over his back/ wither area as he went awfully lame April 2012, had to have a long time off so it's still building back up now - hence the reason for the adjustable saddle to alter it as he comes up. 

Please read comment above about EE saddles - they just don't work for him at all.

Do you think his conformation will always be an issue with regards to saddle fit? He is croup high so I don't think his back will ever have a level top line. But yes, I always feel like I'm tipping forward regardless.
		
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I would say no to adjustable saddle. I know you have spent a lot, but I think it's time you worked with someone who is experienced at dealing with this "conformation". I do quotes because I dont think this is his true conformation. There is a lot of work to be done. It will help to do unmounted work with him too. His back WILL have a top line trust me but not if you keep putting on saddles that don't work for him now. You are tipping forward on any saddle most likely because each saddle pinches him in exactly the same spot so he hollows. You can see him hollow in your pictures. Now I see you on him I can see how EE saddles would not work. I suggest you do some research on muscle atrophy, balance saddles and exercises to help.


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## TigerTail (27 January 2014)

IF the saddle is bouncing at  the back its bridging and doesn't blinking fit!!!!!

I think if you won't look at a decent soft tree, i.e. EE or Solution then a Total contact might suit til he builds up that atrophy.

http://www.total-contact.co.uk


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## tallyho! (27 January 2014)

rachaelstar said:



			This is a pic of me sitting in the saddle if that helps aynone? 





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In this picture, the saddle is a tad far forward. The panels will be right behind the whither and since there is no muscle there, it will be quite uncomfortable and you can see he curls his back away from your seat in order to relieve the pressure making him look like he has a high croup. He doesn't. He is pretty level actually. In my opinion, you need a wider saddle and you need front riser pads until he muscles up enough to fit into the space of the panels but I'm not there to see and feel so I honestly think you should look at the options.


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## Tiarella (27 January 2014)

tallyho! said:



			I would say no to adjustable saddle. I know you have spent a lot, but I think it's time you worked with someone who is experienced at dealing with this "conformation". I do quotes because I dont think this is his true conformation. There is a lot of work to be done. It will help to do unmounted work with him too. His back WILL have a top line trust me but not if you keep putting on saddles that don't work for him now. You are tipping forward on any saddle most likely because each saddle pinches him in exactly the same spot so he hollows. You can see him hollow in your pictures. Now I see you on him I can see how EE saddles would not work. I suggest you do some research on muscle atrophy, balance saddles and exercises to help.
		
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Could I ask which pics you've seen of him hollowing? When he is doing flatwork he works lovely over his back, round and forward - sometimes a little inconsistent but no worse than anything else. Do I stop riding him then? The thing is, this bates saddle he actually goes very nicely in it for the moment but it's clear it won't be suitable for him. I was planning on going to a master saddler next Wednesday and getting a different opinion so hopefully I can put in a formal complaint and atleast get some money back!


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## Tiarella (27 January 2014)

tallyho! said:



			In this picture, the saddle is a tad far forward. The panels will be right behind the whither and since there is no muscle there, it will be quite uncomfortable and you can see he curls his back away from your seat in order to relieve the pressure making him look like he has a high croup. He doesn't. He is pretty level actually. In my opinion, you need a wider saddle and you need front riser pads until he muscles up enough to fit into the space of the panels but I'm not there to see and feel so I honestly think you should look at the options.
		
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Thanks for all your help  I wouldn't use this as an accurate photo - there was a mare infront of him (very stalliony) and he was totally mesmerised. He def doesn't work like this!! I agree the saddle looks too far forward but I always make sure I put it in the correct place each time - I don't think it helps his back is an inch too long though.


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## Tiarella (27 January 2014)

TigerTail said:



			IF the saddle sis bouncing at  the back its bridging and doesn't blinking fit!!!!!

I think if you won't look at a decent soft tree, i.e. EE or Solution then a Total contact might suit til he builds up that atrophy.

http://www.total-contact.co.uk

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How would I compete and have lessons in that?! Lol.


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## tallyho! (27 January 2014)

rachaelstar said:



			Could I ask which pics you've seen of him hollowing? When he is doing flatwork he works lovely over his back, round and forward - sometimes a little inconsistent but no worse than anything else. Do I stop riding him then? The thing is, this bates saddle he actually goes very nicely in it for the moment but it's clear it won't be suitable for him. I was planning on going to a master saddler next Wednesday and getting a different opinion so hopefully I can put in a formal complaint and atleast get some money back!
		
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I didnt realise phone corected picture to pictureS! Sorry I looked at the picture above. On laptop now so easier to type. 

No, don't stop riding him, you just need to find the right saddle. Think about exercises in hand too so he can work without the restrictions of this saddle for now. Good luck rachealstar, I hope you get it fixed. Nothing worse than spending a fortune on saddles and still not being able to get a right fit. I went through four before I found Lavinia. 

Definitely try and get a refund and do complain! My first saddles were fitted by Master Saddlers and my opinion of them has changed A LOT!! I understand the back more now and would avoid .


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## Tiarella (27 January 2014)

tallyho! said:



			I didnt realise phone corected picture to pictureS! Sorry I looked at the picture above. On laptop now so easier to type. 

No, don't stop riding him, you just need to find the right saddle. Think about exercises in hand too so he can work without the restrictions of this saddle for now. Good luck rachealstar, I hope you get it fixed. Nothing worse than spending a fortune on saddles and still not being able to get a right fit. I went through four before I found Lavinia. 

Definitely try and get a refund and do complain! My first saddles were fitted by Master Saddlers and my opinion of them has changed A LOT!! I understand the back more now and would avoid .
		
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Thankyou very much for all your help. I will google Lavinia now and see what I can do. So you def think that a 'master saddler' type saddle won't be suited to him till he is more built up? Is there any chance you have a pic of the saddle you use on your horse? Can pm if you want, just interested to see


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## Tiarella (27 January 2014)

Love the LM saddles - have just emailed her


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## tallyho! (27 January 2014)

rachaelstar said:



			Thankyou very much for all your help. I will google Lavinia now and see what I can do. So you def think that a 'master saddler' type saddle won't be suited to him till he is more built up? Is there any chance you have a pic of the saddle you use on your horse? Can pm if you want, just interested to see 

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Generic saddles probably need to be given a wide berth for now I reckon.


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## TigerTail (27 January 2014)

rachaelstar said:



			How would I compete and have lessons in that?! Lol.
		
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Seriously?! People do - who don't have blinkers on and are able to look at alternative options to better suit the horse until he is physically capable of wearing a 'normal' saddle that you obviously need him to wear for appearances sake!

Jumping higher than these?












Its clear you have spent time and money and aren't getting anywhere - what is so wrong with looking outside the box?


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## Tiarella (27 January 2014)

TigerTail said:



			Seriously?! People do - who don't have blinkers on and are able to look at alternative options to better suit the horse until he is physically capable of wearing a 'normal' saddle that you obviously need him to wear for appearances sake!

Jumping higher than these?












Its clear you have spent time and money and aren't getting anywhere - what is so wrong with looking outside the box?
		
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You don't need to be rude. From the pictures I looked at in your link it looks like just a half bareback pad with stirrups? That is not safe surely? Or am I looking at totally the wrong bit.


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## TigerTail (27 January 2014)

Why wouldnt it be safe? Its not the saddle that keeps you on board its your ability to ride and your connection with your horse to read him and react accordingly. It just sounded from your post that you were putting your wants, i.e. to have lessons and compete, above the horses physical needs and current fitness.

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?596925-Total-contact-saddle-Whos-tried-it/page5

Thread here from real life folk on H+H if that reassures you.


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## little_critter (27 January 2014)

Maybe pm sbloom on here. She fits native pony saddles.


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## Tiarella (27 January 2014)

TigerTail said:



			Why wouldnt it be safe? Its not the saddle that keeps you on board its your ability to ride and your connection with your horse to read him and react accordingly. It just sounded from your post that you were putting your wants, i.e. to have lessons and compete, above the horses physical needs and current fitness.

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?596925-Total-contact-saddle-Whos-tried-it/page5

Thread here from real life folk on H+H if that reassures you.
		
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No no he is 110% the priority hense spending ££££ to get everything right! Yes I agree with you on the riding but when darling dougie is having a rather exuberant day I'd rather be sat in a proper saddle lol


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## Flyermc (27 January 2014)

Looking at your pictures and what your saddle is doing, im fairly certain your saddle is doing the same as mine did. Basically what was happening was that my saddle was tipping forward, which made the back rise and the saddle slip back. This would make me tip forward slightly, causing more pressure at the front and the muscle wasting away, my saddlecloth would slide back. If you look at the front pictures of your saddle on your horse you can see the slight gap at the withers, that the saddle would tip into.

Ive got some before pictures of my pony to show you what i mean, but i think my ponies was alot worst than yours!


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## Flyermc (27 January 2014)

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f117/flyermc/flyer6.jpg

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f117/flyermc/flyer5.jpg

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f117/flyermc/flyer4.jpg

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f117/flyermc/flyer1.jpg


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## debsandpets (27 January 2014)

My saddler that fitted bot a wintec and bates to two very different shaped horses, said that the half sheepskin pads shouldn't be used unless the saddle is fitted with one on initially as they can and very often do alter the correct fit of a saddle to one that consequently doesn't fit.
Maybe worth a go without the sheepskin and see if it stays put that way - I haven't read all the posts so someone may have already suggested this ......................


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## Tiarella (27 January 2014)

Flyermc said:



			Looking at your pictures and what your saddle is doing, im fairly certain your saddle is doing the same as mine did. Basically what was happening was that my saddle was tipping forward, which made the back rise and the saddle slip back. This would make me tip forward slightly, causing more pressure at the front and the muscle wasting away, my saddlecloth would slide back. If you look at the front pictures of your saddle on your horse you can see the slight gap at the withers, that the saddle would tip into.

Ive got some before pictures of my pony to show you what i mean, but i think my ponies was alot worst than yours!
		
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This sounds a pretty accurate description! What have you done to solve the problem?


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## Flyermc (27 January 2014)

My saddle is a saddle co. The previous fitter (who caused all the issues in the first place) made my saddle to narrow, so the new fitter firstly made my saddle wider to fit his current shape and then we had a chat about leaving it there or trying to get some of the muscle back behind his withers. We opted to give this ago so she made my saddle wider and fitted prolite shim pads to it. They are just the blue insert shims that i put on top of a thin saddlecloth (i dont use a the black pad part)

This will stop my saddle from falling back into the dips behind his withers and completely stopped my saddle and saddlecloth moving, however it doesnt bring the muscle back. That is down to lots and lots of bareback riding/walking inhand up hills and lunging in a passoa. He has defiantly improved (pic's taken last year) but he's nearly 18 and is unlikely to completely fill out back to the way he was.


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## Tiarella (27 January 2014)

Ahh okay, had a saddle company saddle before this one and it scarred his withers with stirrup bar marks so got rid!


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## Tiarella (27 January 2014)

debsandpets said:



			My saddler that fitted bot a wintec and bates to two very different shaped horses, said that the half sheepskin pads shouldn't be used unless the saddle is fitted with one on initially as they can and very often do alter the correct fit of a saddle to one that consequently doesn't fit.
Maybe worth a go without the sheepskin and see if it stays put that way - I haven't read all the posts so someone may have already suggested this ......................
		
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I just used the sheepskin gel pad for 20 min this morning to see if it stopped saddlecloths slipping...it didn't


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## juliette (27 January 2014)

I have had horses that are a problem to fit saddles to and thank my lucky stars to have found Gini and Dean at The Saddle Exchange, they are extremely knowledgeable and don't leave you with a saddle that doesn't fit. Their after care is second to none. Look them up on the web, you won't regret calling them.
My friend uses them too and she had bought 4 saddles, all of which slipped, one was even custom made for her horse to a template made by a Master Saddler. They came and sorted her out and she has not looked back.


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## Kallibear (27 January 2014)

Your saddle pad slips because the saddle is too low at the front.  It doesn't look too wide (in fact it may be too narrow) but wintecs and Bates are renound for poor balance on wide and flat horses. As the tree adjusts wider, it starts to curve and drop at the front.  You can make the arch too narrow so the saddle balances but that is obviously no use to the poor horse!. Whoever told you that the standard bates and wintec is ideal for a wide flat horse is an incompetent idiot! 

I don't think you'll get that saddle to fit but in the meantime,  see if you can get front shims to lift it a little.

You need to look for a saddle with a flat tree and a wide head (good space between the top of the front panels). Cob type saddles would've be a good place to start. A competent saddler fitter is also a good plan.


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## Tiarella (28 January 2014)

Thankyou everyone  I'm going to make a list of everything written on this page as to the issues of why the saddle isn't fitting, and ring current saddle fitter. In the mean time I'm hoping the other sms fitter I already have a good relationship will look at pics I emailed her and back me up in order for when I make a complaint against her if she doesn't refund me - which I doubt she will, grrr!!

I will then spend time googling all the other people you have all recommended and hopefully have a chat with some of them. 

Thanks guys!!


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## tallyho! (28 January 2014)

Good luck, you WILL have success, you're very conscientious.


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## mummymole (28 January 2014)

My horse who is 8 now but was 3 when i brought him was very difficult to fit .We couldn't get a saddle to sit on his back properly .He dropped away on the right side and it took a lot of physio ,schooling and ground exercises to imrove him.What used to happen was his saddle used to tip left and then you had to joggle it to re adjust whilst riding(obviously not good for his back ) We tryed loads of saddles and the only one which i still have was A kent and Masters .It has a very deep back .We had to use a riser to start and it did still  move on occasion.We tryed every girth as it came onto the shelf and then i borrowed an H girth to try ,END OF ALL THE PROBLEMS . Amazing is all i can say .He has built up now so i no longer need to use it all the time ,but both the saddle which is adjustable and the girth have been amazing .


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## ester (28 January 2014)

I was thinking about Doug this morning while riding Frank! I'd guess that Frank has been through similar changes that you will be expecting of Doug, have similar seasonal changes though he isn't bum high. 

He had atrophied behind withers when we got current saddle - that was fitted with a sheepskin numnah to allow him to build up a bit (which he did). He then ended up atrophied on one side/very built on the other from a period of lameness. This was resolved by using a foam shim on one side temporarily. I actually find his saddle copes very well with seasonal changes. Slight changes in numnah thickness accounting for them although the saddle still fits plenty well enough regardless - hence having an 'adjustable' saddle hasn't really been necessary if that is why you went for the Bates.


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## EmmaB (28 January 2014)

Your saddle looks similar to what mine was doing, had it checked by a saddler who said it was fine, just had a bit of flocking adjusted to stop it tipping forward and she told me to use with a half pad. Because my horse is short backed and has a big-ish shoulder for his size, I still felt it was tipping slightly and becoming to tight on the shoulder so I got a shires front gel riser off ebay and it has been fab! I use a saddlecloth, then the gel riser just below withers, then half pad and then saddle, lifts it right off his shoulders and feels a hell of a lot better! 

Just a thought you could try, as only cost me £20 and got it sorted


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## Sprig (28 January 2014)

I had a similar shaped horse. Tried Native Pony Saddle company and just could not get a good fit despite many adjustments. Then had a Oakfield Santana working hunter saddle which is theory fitted him perfectly and looked great, but he decided it was not for him. We ended up with an old Falcon Hawk event saddle and it was brilliant. No movement at all and he was very happy with it, which is the main thing. We finally got to the one that worked best by buying several on Ebay, through recommendation of styles that may suit, trying them on, rejecting those that did not fit and getting the saddler out to assess the remainder. In the end I managed to sell all the unwanted ones back on Ebay for the same or more than a paid for them so it was not an expensive exercise, even if it was a little time consuming.


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## lhotse (28 January 2014)

You could try to source an Arabian Saddle Company saddle, they are designed specifically for horses with big wide shoulders and flat backs. I have one for my arab, it is the most comfortable saddle I've ridden in, never moves and is beautifully made. They are made by Lovatt & Ricketts and they are expensive, but you can sometimes pick them up secondhand for a reasonable price. I paid £450 for mine in excellent condition. I have the Solstice Endurance.


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## BayLady (28 January 2014)

Am I right in thinking that it's just the saddlecloth/numnah that's slipping, not the whole saddle?

If so, just get a numnah that attaches to the d-rings, that will prevent it from going too far backwards.  

I'm not going to comment on fit as from what I can see it doesn't look bad, and that's about all I can tell from photos.  

Almost every numnah I ever used on my old girl (long backed, average wither, no muscle wastage) slipped backwards. It was worst with her treeless saddles (Fitform, SBS, Freeform).  Saddle stayed put, numnah slid backwards, in fact I tried one without straps once and it actually feel out the back whilst cantering and I had to go and retrieve it!  

Fast forward to my new boy, who's flat backed with next to no wither and the same thing happens.  He has no muscle wastage (nor did my mare) though isn't as wide as he's going to end up and is currently fitted with a slightly too wide saddle and pads as this is how he likes his saddle to fit him.  Previously he was in a FlexEE which didn't obviously cause him problems but he was napping and bucking and rearing and I was at my wits end (he checked out fine physically) so decided to sell the FlexEE and try something else.  Instantly well behaved in the new treed saddle and has been ever since!  

I use Nuumed high wither numnahs that attach to the d-rings of the saddle.  It still wants to walk out backwards but is prevented from going far enough to be a problem.  Mine don't ruck up and crease under the saddle though, they just wander off 

Anyway, my point is that maybe it's just one of those things and you need to just find out what sticks best and use that type of saddlecloth, rather than endlessly worry.

If the saddle is moving, then you can ignore everything previous to this sentence!


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## Casey76 (28 January 2014)

Both Bates and Wintecs are built around the same tree.  The tree is very curved, and not at all suitable for flat-backed  types (even if you have the flocking distributed, it still makes the back of the saddle bounce).

My mare is very flat backed, and I ended up getting a Prestige saddle (there is a limited choice of brands around here - and I just don't get on with Stübben saddles at all!)


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## hippocobamus (28 January 2014)

Sorry to hear that you've had ongoing saddle problems - I have been there, done that and know all too well how disheartening it is to buy a new saddle that supposedly 'fits' but then 6 months down the line (or 6 days in your case), something isn't right.

I think that horses simply change much more than we recognise a lot of the time and particularly for horses with large, active shoulders but that are also short coupled, finding a saddle that continues to work with them dynamically is difficult.

I ended up renting, then buying, a Solution saddle for Hippcob as this accommodates all of his very many weight and shape fluctuations (even a few days off can undo a lot of weight management work) and means that if we do eventually get him fit enough and keep him fit enough, we can use it to compete in too. I've also used it on a few other horses too with good results. They are expensive, but good value at the end of the day to see your horse happy in his work, comfortable in his back and not having to keep buying saddle after saddle and then deal with the associated set backs.

I hope that the saddler you bought it off accepts that a mistake has been made and gives you a refund. I'd definitely kick up a fuss if they won't. Fingers crossed for you!


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## Tiarella (28 January 2014)

Right - I spoke to another sms saddler today who agreed that it does not fit, and isn't the correct shape for him at all and it just won't work. I then rang my sms fitter who insisted it did fit and did not know why the saddlecloths moved, said I could have a refund but take 20% off as it's a used saddle. Rang sms themselves and they said I need to put in writing everything that has happend. At the end of the day my saddle is unusable because it tips forward which make the saddlecloths go back so I'm getting off every 5 minutes to re adjust everything so think I deserve a full refund - it's not just because I don't 'want' the saddle anymore. 

What do you think I should do from here?


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## Polos Mum (28 January 2014)

Honestly a discount of only 20% for it being second hand is pretty good, there are lots of excellent condition under 12 month old second hand saddles for 50% of their new price so I'd consider taking it and moving on - not fair and not right but you could spend a lot of time/ effort and cash getting that last 20% (which I'm guessing is less than £200)?


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## tallyho! (28 January 2014)

In the letter, as well as describing the problem, include photos and quote your consumer rights act. You might have to look this up online and don't let them fob you off. As for the fitter who said it fits.... says it all!

I would expect a full refund for any goods that did not fit me properly e.g. Shoes or apparel. I'm not walking into debenhams with a returned item and they knock 20% off!!!! Same applies I believe unless you have damaged it in any way. The fitter should have fitted it properly in the first place!


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## Tiarella (28 January 2014)

Polos Mum said:



			Honestly a discount of only 20% for it being second hand is pretty good, there are lots of excellent condition under 12 month old second hand saddles for 50% of their new price so I'd consider taking it and moving on - not fair and not right but you could spend a lot of time/ effort and cash getting that last 20% (which I'm guessing is less than £200)?
		
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It's not second hand, it's brand new - 4 weeks old.


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## tallyho! (28 January 2014)

rachaelstar said:



			It's not second hand, it's brand new - 4 weeks old.
		
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See my reply below polos mum original post...


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## Polos Mum (28 January 2014)

See if you can get the saddler to give you a full refund on that basis then.  good luck


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## alainax (28 January 2014)

rachaelstar said:



			Right - I spoke to another sms saddler today who agreed that it does not fit, and isn't the correct shape for him at all and it just won't work. I then rang my sms fitter who insisted it did fit and did not know why the saddlecloths moved, said I could have a refund but take 20% off as it's a used saddle. Rang sms themselves and they said I need to put in writing everything that has happend. At the end of the day my saddle is unusable because it tips forward which make the saddlecloths go back so I'm getting off every 5 minutes to re adjust everything so think I deserve a full refund - it's not just because I don't 'want' the saddle anymore. 

What do you think I should do from here?
		
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Did you buy it from the saddler directly? If so, then you have to send them a recorded delivery letter stating when you bought it, why it is not fit for purpose, and that you require a full refund within 14 days. 

Failure for them to do so will result in you opening a case with trading standards, who will contact them directly in the first instance to try to find a solution.


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## FairyLights (28 January 2014)

the saddle here is too narrow


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## debsandpets (28 January 2014)

rachaelstar said:



			I just used the sheepskin gel pad for 20 min this morning to see if it stopped saddlecloths slipping...it didn't 

Click to expand...

Fair enough, worth a try 

It's a PITA when they don't fit, I hope you get it sorted out soon for both your peace of mind and the annoyance that comes with the cloth slipping. I bought a saddle pad with the non slip where the saddle sits on top and that has alleviated the problem completely.


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## weebarney (28 January 2014)

tallyho! said:



			In the letter, as well as describing the problem, include photos and quote your consumer rights act. You might have to look this up online and don't let them fob you off. As for the fitter who said it fits.... says it all!

I would expect a full refund for any goods that did not fit me properly e.g. Shoes or apparel. I'm not walking into debenhams with a returned item and they knock 20% off!!!! Same applies I believe unless you have damaged it in any way. The fitter should have fitted it properly in the first place!
		
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This ^^^^
Then take them to court if necessary. Get everything in writing, like opinions from other saddle fitters that it doesn't fit.


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## Goldenstar (28 January 2014)

Good luck Op you ought to get a full refund .
I would pm sbloom on here for advice she's a saddler and very generous with her help.
No harm in getting as much imfo as possible before you try again .


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## Sheep (28 January 2014)

Write a letter as suggested above, and perhaps see if the other fitter is willing to write a letter to back up what you are saying. A good friend of mine bought a saddle for her boy from one saddler, and after a short period she felt something wasn't right - she went back to original saddler, who insisted it did fit and made a few adjustments. She however wasn't convinced and like yourself went to get a second opinion. The 2nd saddler confirmed that it did not fit and was of the opinion that the saddle could never have been suitable for this particular horse. As far as I remember, the first saddler initially offered an exchange but when the 2nd one got involved and suggested that he may take the matter further with the SMS, the first saddler relented and offered a full refund.


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## dafthoss (28 January 2014)

He seems very similar in shape to YP. I must have been very lucky to find a saddle that fitted him first time round. He's another in a falcon hawk event saddle, which don't go for masses second hand on eBay if that's a route you want to go. I can take some pictures of him and the saddle tomorrow if you want to see if you think it might be a suitable option for you. It's fitted him from when I first got him and he was obese and still fits now he's a good weight.


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## Tiarella (29 January 2014)

dafthoss said:



			He seems very similar in shape to YP. I must have been very lucky to find a saddle that fitted him first time round. He's another in a falcon hawk event saddle, which don't go for masses second hand on eBay if that's a route you want to go. I can take some pictures of him and the saddle tomorrow if you want to see if you think it might be a suitable option for you. It's fitted him from when I first got him and he was obese and still fits now he's a good weight.
		
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Yes please dafthoss, that would be perfect!


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## putasocinit (29 January 2014)

There are keepers on the numnah which attach to the saddle so that doesnt happen. If saddle slipping get a non slip pad to go under


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## tallyho! (29 January 2014)

putasocinit said:



			There are keepers on the numnah which attach to the saddle so that doesnt happen. If saddle slipping get a non slip pad to go under
		
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And how does this solve the saddle-not-fitting issue?


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## Tiarella (29 January 2014)

Went to another sms today - well two actually they were both there at horsesense. They spent a long time, looking at back, taking photos, chalking the saddle/his back and came to the conclusion, that it wasnt suitable for him. Spoke to my saddle fitter and she disagreed and said she will come out again and watch me ride in it (with saddlecloth this time!) and see what my issues are. 

Where do you think I should go from here? I have no idea who to listen to or who to trust.

My current saddle fitter took it personally that I went and asked another sms fitter their opinions and is going to get sms involved anyway. I never wanted to upset anyone, I just wanted the best for my horse!


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## Roasted Chestnuts (29 January 2014)

Look at thorowgood or kent and masters saddles for round types. I've had four now and not been disappointed in them nor had them slip nor move once fitted and I've had two round horses and a TBx with no issues.

Wouldn't touch a bates or winter for my own horses with a barge pole.


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## Goldenstar (29 January 2014)

rachaelstar said:



			Went to another sms today - well two actually they were both there at horsesense. They spent a long time, looking at back, taking photos, chalking the saddle/his back and came to the conclusion, that it wasnt suitable for him. Spoke to my saddle fitter and she disagreed and said she will come out again and watch me ride in it (with saddlecloth this time!) and see what my issues are. 

Where do you think I should go from here? I have no idea who to listen to or who to trust.

My current saddle fitter took it personally that I went and asked another sms fitter their opinions and is going to get sms involved anyway. I never wanted to upset anyone, I just wanted the best for my horse!
		
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I think I would write to the company at once detailing what the two fitters said and their details of course .
I don't know if I would bother with the first fitter again but if you do make sure you have a a sensible horsey witness with you on the day .
It's not personal it's buisness that's all don't let yourself get dragged into it being personal 
The company ought to give you a full refund for this saddle IMO .


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## TigerTail (29 January 2014)

wouldnt waste my time with the first fitter - once you've lost confidence in someone's competency you will always second guess them, at the end of the day that horse comes first and that saddle doesn't fit.


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## tallyho! (29 January 2014)

I understand that this is fast becoming a situation where YOU are the one feeling bad and defenceless.

It's not for me to call on the talents of your original fitter but if two others think it does not fit, then you should not let her come back. N stead, get statements from the other two fitters and write to the company. You are at the precipice of being bullied now. Stand up for your rights as a consumer. Stand up for your horse. Having a correctly fitted saddle is the very basic requirement of riding and it should be top of anyone's list to be the right fit. No amount of padding, straps and dead sheep is ever going to take away the bare fact that its not a good fit.


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## Tiarella (29 January 2014)

This is so bleeding difficult  she won't give me full refund because she thinks the saddle fits and is standing by that. She is then getting sms involved and trying to get other saddle fitters into trouble as I went to them for a 2nd opinion.


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## TigerTail (29 January 2014)

Take her out of the equation and go to the head of SMS - explain the facts of the situation, no emotions, and state that you require a full refund as the saddle doesn't fit - as confirmed by TWO of their own fitters. END OF!!!


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## Goldenstar (29 January 2014)

rachaelstar said:



			This is so bleeding difficult  she won't give me full refund because she thinks the saddle fits and is standing by that. She is then getting sms involved and trying to get other saddle fitters into trouble as I went to them for a 2nd opinion.
		
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I agree with tallyho don't be bullied .
Write to telling her the saddle is not fit for purpose you want  a full refund detail everything thats happened in bullet points as sustinctly as possible you will take action if she does not  refund your money .
Copy it to the company with a covering letter saying you wish to resolve this with out going to the small claims court but you will if necessary .
See what happens .
Buying a saddle should not be like this .


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## cremedemonthe (29 January 2014)

I've PM'd you OP

Oz (Saddler)


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## Blythe Spirit (29 January 2014)

Goldenstar said:



			I agree with tallyho don't be bullied.
		
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I am with Goldenstar - in theory - because i had the same problem with the same saddler (I know cos I PM'ed the OP) - sold two saddles in this case one such a poor fit I could see huge amounts of daylight under the panels it only sat on her back at shoulder and back of cantle. She agreed to reflock but problem still there, i rode 20 mins without a numnah to see where the grease was and there were huge parts of the under side of panels totally clean afterwards. but then we just  got stuck, i said it didn't fit she said it did - total stalemate. With the second saddle I tried one which I liked for flat but which was no use for jumping and after a weeks deliberation I decided i would buy it just for dressage when i collected the 'same' saddle I swear it was a different one, (I think it was a kent and masters VSD I tried - she swears I tried the kent and masters cob GP)  and got quite upset when I tried to insist. fitted a wider gullet in it when I complained it tilted me forwards (the one I tried was very well balanced for me) I rode in it three times and gave up. Two useless saddles and stalemate with fitter. my horse then went lame and had to have 6 weeks off work. I decided to walk away and have now sold both saddles on at a loss of about 400 pounds. 


so OP do it! because someone should!


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## Flyermc (29 January 2014)

Who is the fitter? As i mentioned earlier i had a saddle company saddle fitted VERY badly by a fitter i got recommended by the saddle company! It would be interesting to know if it was the same person as she 'fitted' several different makes.


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## ester (29 January 2014)

are you a BHS member RS?


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## tallyho! (30 January 2014)

Can you report a registered saddle fitter??


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## Luci07 (30 January 2014)

tallyho! said:



			Can you report a registered saddle fitter??
		
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Is there such a thing as a registration for saddle fitters? Just as a general view...if someone says they are a master saddler and you don't know them, then I would ring and check with the worshipful society of master saddlers.  I do know someone years ago who said they were a MS but in fact were not.

Please update us ...I find it very interesting.


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## tallyho! (30 January 2014)

http://www.mastersaddlers.co.uk/

I think you should contact them and make enquiries about how you should go about resolving your issue.

I bought my saddles second hand from the saddlers who were "master saddlers" and also encountered problems but I never pursued anything as it happened so long after they were fitted. However, it has left a rather nasty taste in my mouth when the back man and also a back lady pointed out the damage they had done. There are very few people now that I would trust with saddling my baby. One lives very far away from me and I don't mind paying her the fuel money or time for coming to fit my saddles. A good saddle that fits perfectly is priceless.

I know people who have been lucky using the same saddle on all of their horses and I think those people are few and far between.

Also, I do think its very important that owners self-educate on what a good fit is. In fact I believe this for all aspects of the horse care we are responsible for. It's easy these days with so much info at our fingertips... Literally!


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## beatrice (30 January 2014)

Luci07 said:



			Is there such a thing as a registration for saddle fitters? Just as a general view...if someone says they are a master saddler and you don't know them, then I would ring and check with the worshipful society of master saddlers.  I do know someone years ago who said they were a MS but in fact were not.

Please update us ...I find it very interesting.
		
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Yes the saddle fitting qualification is different to that of a Master Saddler. 

A master saddler is not qualified to fit saddles - they are qualified to make saddles (very basic description)
A Saddle fitter is just that - qualified to fit saddles. 

A saddle fitter is not automatically a Master Saddler and vice versa.

You can check who is qualified to do what on the SMS website and I believe you can contact the SMS if you are having bother with anyone qulaified.


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## HBBambee (30 January 2014)

I havent read any of the other posts but did the saddler know you were going to be putting a half pad underneath? If so then the saddle should of been fitted with your half pad in mind.


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## Tiarella (30 January 2014)

HBBambee said:



			I havent read any of the other posts but did the saddler know you were going to be putting a half pad underneath? If so then the saddle should of been fitted with your half pad in mind.
		
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you need to read the other posts...lol


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## Tiarella (30 January 2014)

Well, im still in a predicament. I need someone to tell me what to do!! saddle fitter (2&3) told me to fight for it and demand a full refund, and if not try and go for 10% of the refund taken off as the saddle is brand new, has been ridden in for 5 weeks and it clearly isnt suitable. saddle fitter (2&3) wrote an email to me basically summing up yesterday, including pics of the saddle chalked on his back. The only problem is, i've had problems with my horse bending left for a long long time in many different saddle, saddle fitter (1) was aware of this as I told her, but she never fitted the saddle around this issue - he has lack of muscle on right side of wither significantly compared to left side. saddle fitter (2&3) basically wrote the email explaining that he couldnt bend left because of the saddle loading too much on the right, which yes, is very correct but I originally went to them saying about my saddlecloth issue and saddle tipping forward. Now I have no idea what to do?! saddle fitter (2&3) did say that saddler fitter (1) has every right to ask for some % to be taken off as it is no longer a new saddle and she can not sell it as new, which is understandable, but she made the mistake in the first place which is not my problem. Gahhhh!!


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## tallyho! (30 January 2014)

rachaelstar said:



			Well, im still in a predicament. I need someone to tell me what to do!! saddle fitter (2&3) told me to fight for it and demand a full refund, and if not try and go for 10% of the refund taken off as the saddle is brand new, has been ridden in for 5 weeks and it clearly isnt suitable. saddle fitter (2&3) wrote an email to me basically summing up yesterday, including pics of the saddle chalked on his back. The only problem is, i've had problems with my horse bending left for a long long time in many different saddle, saddle fitter (1) was aware of this as I told her, but she never fitted the saddle around this issue - he has lack of muscle on right side of wither significantly compared to left side. saddle fitter (2&3) basically wrote the email explaining that he couldnt bend left because of the saddle loading too much on the right, which yes, is very correct but I originally went to them saying about my saddlecloth issue and saddle tipping forward. Now I have no idea what to do?! saddle fitter (2&3) did say that saddler fitter (1) has every right to ask for some % to be taken off as it is no longer a new saddle and she can not sell it as new, which is understandable, but she made the mistake in the first place which is not my problem. Gahhhh!!
		
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Exactly, it isn't your problem and now you are out of pocket and unable to ride your horse. It should be that the company take on their mistakes.

Unless you want to contact your vet and have them organise a qualified physio to do a full assessment and then send the report to the saddle company, I would accept the 10% and be done with it. Chalk it up to experience.


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## ester (30 January 2014)

saddler has only offered 20% at the moment though. I don't suppose you get any legal advice through any policies just so that you can back yourself up RS? But I would be tempted to send a recorded letter with your request and reasons why for a full refund. Surely that mostly has to be on the basis that it is common knowledge that bates have a curvy tree and you don't have a curvy backed pony!


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## cyberhorse (30 January 2014)

I think you need to talk to trading standards and open a case. Then contact her and set out why you want a full refund also ensuring you quote the case number and advise that all further contact must be in writing or email so that trading standards are able to add a copy to their case file. In your letter state that in you feel she has not undertaken the fitting with "reasonable care and skill" and that as a consequence the saddle has been rendered "unfit for purpose" in this case. Also include any subsequent second opinions at this point and detail the issues that mean she has not acted with "reasonable care and skill". Although it was not an equine case I have been successful using this approach.

In the meantime if you are stuck with this saddle for riding as others have already said you could try different girths, but also an old fashioned type leather non-elasticated chest girth might help keep things more stable.


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## tallyho! (30 January 2014)

I agree with cyberhorse, it's a lot of stress but I wouldn't let the saddler get away with it tbh. Go for it Rachaelstar, you deserve better than to be intimidated. I feel so sorry for you. Big hugs and be brave!


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## Tiarella (30 January 2014)

More pics for anyone thats interested, what do you think of these?





















This one concerns me the most, very over to the right side!






chalks from yesterday
















eta - in process of writing an email.


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## Polos Mum (30 January 2014)

OP only you can decide how much time and effort you want to put into getting c.£200 back or whether your time is better spend finding a saddle that does fit. 
It is not a new saddle, if I buy a dress from Next, wear it once then take it back, yes they'll probably give me a refund (only vouchers to spend in their shop most likely) but they certainly wouldn't sell the dress on to someone else as new - I can see both sides. 
It isn't fair for you to loose money but sadly life is often not fair.


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## tallyho! (30 January 2014)

Rachaelstar... Awful. Omg how thin is that panel????!!! Is that all that is touching his body either side of his spine??? And it's completely over his shoulderblades? He works in that? He's an honest horse, good god my boy would have had me in a hedge if I had that saddle on. He obviously moves as you can work him in it.... Sort of. 

Who is this Sadler?


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## wallykissmas (30 January 2014)

Can someone explain why there is more chalk visible on the right side of the saddle than the left ?


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## Tiarella (30 January 2014)

tallyho! said:



			Rachaelstar... Awful. Omg how thin is that panel????!!! Is that all that is touching his body either side of his spine??? And it's completely over his shoulderblades? He works in that? He's an honest horse, good god my boy would have had me in a hedge if I had that saddle on. He obviously moves as you can work him in it.... Sort of. 

Who is this Sadler?
		
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When I explained this to saddle fitter (1) she said that bates saddles dont work with the chalk idea???

Do you mean the middle bit of the panel which are thin? Yes, he is very very very honest, too honest! You could put a bed of nails on his back and he'd still work for you  I have videos of him working underneath it but I have no idea how to get them onto the comp. I will pm you tallyho x


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## Tiarella (30 January 2014)

wallykissmas said:



			Can someone explain why there is more chalk visible on the right side of the saddle than the left ?
		
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saddle fitter (2&3) said its loading too much on right shoulder and would never be suitable.


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## wallykissmas (30 January 2014)

rachaelstar said:



			saddle fitter (2&3) said its loading too much on right shoulder and would never be suitable.
		
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Ah ok, do they chalk the horse then out the saddle on or the saddle then place and ride. Have you thought about going via beta if the saddler is part of a shop registered with beta ?


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## Tiarella (30 January 2014)

wallykissmas said:



			Ah ok, do they chalk the horse then out the saddle on or the saddle then place and ride. Have you thought about going via beta if the saddler is part of a shop registered with beta ?
		
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They did both ways, chalk on horse onto saddle, then wiped off clean, then chalk on saddle onto horse. There are so many different things to look at but havent thought of doing beta, will check that out now.


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## wallykissmas (30 January 2014)

I had a saddler try to keep a £500 deposit for a £1000 saddle off the peg wintec as I decieded I didn't want it with 24hours. I spoke to beta and they told me as it wasn't made to order there was no reason to keep my deposit. I had a cheque arrive a few weeks after contacting them.


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## tallyho! (30 January 2014)

There's not much money in it and all commissioned based. 

However.,,, I do feel that if you loved horses enough you would fit a well fitting saddle and looked after your customer. 

I am truly flabbergasted for want of a better word!


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## cyberhorse (31 January 2014)

I just think it is a pretty shocking situation to have been left in. I do understand that the saddle is now second hand BUT it has not changed its fit so drastically in the short time you have had it to mean it was fitted correctly in the first place! Ergo the lack of professional "reasonable care" in the fitting has caused this problem. The saddle fitter has to take the loss not the client!!! The whole point of using a saddle fitter is that they are a professional who knows what they are doing, a badly fitting saddle is therefore their responsibility not yours. This is what being a professional is all about!

If I had made someone a set of dentures that were so poorly fitting, I would pay out of my own pocket the lab costs of a brand new set, and the bad set would go in the bin (they are custom made and therefore don't even have a second hand value like the saddle would if she took it back). I would never even get to the point of charging the patient and would be apologising profusely for the time they would need to give up in further appointments to re-do the work. At the end of it I would be significantly out of pocket and would have to chalk it down to MY experience and take responsibility for not having done my job properly.

If as a professional you care about your clients and reputation you own up to your mistakes and do whatever it takes to put them right. Keep pressing for a refund and get trading standards involved if you are not getting anywhere. When I had to call them about work done in my house they were really fantastic and supportive behind the scenes.


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## dafthoss (31 January 2014)

Sorry I haven't sent you photos yet. Have photos of his back but not with saddle on so will pm you them. 

Hope you can get this sorted.


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## Tiarella (6 February 2014)

Full refund given 

Now I just need a new saddle...


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## Sheep (6 February 2014)

Glad you got the right outcome! Good luck saddle shopping!


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## ester (6 February 2014)

very pleased for you.


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## TigerTail (6 February 2014)

yay well done 

What about the new leather flexEE ? I know you said someone had tried one on him and you didnt like it but the leather ones are very different as they have a gullet plate and wool flocked panels.


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## Tiarella (6 February 2014)

I think to start with I'm going to just go to another saddle fitter and try lots of different saddles they offer me. I think I'm going to end up having to buy a jump and a dressage as there just isn't a GP saddle that accommodates my abnormal legs! 

If that fails and I can't find anything suitable I will look into different types such as flexee etc.


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## tallyho! (6 February 2014)

Well done Rachael! Just make sure the next one allows for his developing muscles! Yay!


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## Tiarella (6 February 2014)

tallyho! said:



			Well done Rachael! Just make sure the next one allows for his developing muscles! Yay!
		
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Thankyou so so so much for all your help and support!!


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## Blythe Spirit (6 February 2014)

Good news well done!


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## tallyho! (7 February 2014)

rachaelstar said:



			Thankyou so so so much for all your help and support!!
		
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Oh not at all!! Don't be daft! Pat on the back for you lady! X


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