# Ok the game's up I confess I am a child abuser



## Giles (29 March 2011)

at least according to LACS - I've taken my children beagling fishing and encouraged one of them to take up fox and stag hunting by inculcating the 'killer instinct' I am abusing them.

http://www.league.org.uk/blogs_entry.aspx?id=425

If I am really abusing my children surely they should be taken away from their abusive nice middle class home and private school and put in care?  After all their mental health is at risk.  And surely the law should intervene not only for their own welfare but my own?


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## Rosie Round The Hills (29 March 2011)

My child hunts, he will shoot, and I suspect my hubbie will take him fishing too.  He also eats sausages from our pigs that we name, scratch, talk to and slaughter, eggs from our hens, and meat from our unwanted cockerels.  He will I hope grow up with an all-round understanding of how humans get their food.  

It doesn't grow in polystyrene trays in the supermarket.
Farmers aren't there just to make the countryside pretty to walk in.
And the control of pests is part of managing our living breathing countryside.


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## jenniaddams (29 March 2011)

Really shouldn't have clicked the link...it makes me want to bang my head off a brick wall. The mind boggles.

Nice to be raised with a knowledge of where my food comes from. I would like to shoot my own meat...and I was raised by a mother who won't call chicken chicken because it makes her remember its come from a real live chicken!...she calls it oogly boogly. So obviously raising one way doesn't make you the same. I am an enthusiastic carnivore.


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## Tinkerbee (29 March 2011)

Well, I am a raging sociopath so clearly they're correct


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## Giles (29 March 2011)

Tinkerbee said:



			Well, I am a raging sociopath so clearly they're correct 

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Well TB we clearly need yet more laws to curtail stuff you get up to in order to benefit your mental health!


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## SusannaF (29 March 2011)

By that definition I'd say anyone whose child is not a vegan is involved, somehow, in the abuse of children and the encouragement of animal slaughter, no?

http://stonehead.wordpress.com/2008/11/23/cant-you-have-pork-without-killing-the-pigs/


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## sybil (29 March 2011)

I have hunted since a very young age, have worked on various farms- one of which raises their own pigs for slaughter (yes even then ones that the locals named), I am certainly aware of exactly where my food comes from and I love it. Yet I am pretty sure the closest my mother has ever come to abusing me is taking a whip to my backside when I got a bit lippy! Clearly we are all wrong and are such dangerous individuals that we should be locked up and punished to the full extent of the law immediately. Best hand myself in before I even think about having kids then eh?


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## solitairex (29 March 2011)

Oh yes, my parents are sooo cruel carting me around for days on end in the pouring rain, spending out lots of money and helping me get my horse ready etc. all because they are SO mean!


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## Giles (29 March 2011)

solitairex said:



			Oh yes, my parents are sooo cruel carting me around for days on end in the pouring rain, spending out lots of money and helping me get my horse ready etc. all because they are SO mean!
		
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Surely there is someone that believes taking a child hunting shooting or fishing is on a par with forcing them to have unconsensual sex.  This is madness where are all the antis?


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## JenHunt (29 March 2011)

no... every child should know how the countryside works, where their food comes from, and should learn to be responsible for not just themselves but their pony and their friends as well. And most learn to drink sensibly too (though, obviously not to buy the drink... that would be illegal!)

I for one don't know any hunting children who've "gone off the rails" in their teen years.


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## Paddydou (30 March 2011)

SusannaF said:



			By that definition I'd say anyone whose child is not a vegan is involved, somehow, in the abuse of children and the encouragement of animal slaughter, no?

http://stonehead.wordpress.com/2008/11/23/cant-you-have-pork-without-killing-the-pigs/

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Actually... and I shall say this very quietly... I think there was a case many moons ago where a couple where charged with abuse because they forced their children to be vegans and the children ended up rather unwell... I could be wrong but I think they ended up going for a stretch and loosing the kids because they were a bit zelotty about it all...

I could be wrong but its in there somewhere with all the other gunk that clogs up my brain cells...


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## VoR (30 March 2011)

I think, just maybe, anyone who thinks taking their child hunting, shooting or fishing is child abuse does need to get real, surely there are one or two more important issues than this in terms of abusing/poor parenting of children!!??

I really do wonder about this country and the do-gooding, tree-hugging, anti-everything brigade it seems to spawn!


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## SusannaF (30 March 2011)

Paddydou said:



			Actually... and I shall say this very quietly... I think there was a case many moons ago where a couple where charged with abuse because they forced their children to be vegans and the children ended up rather unwell... I could be wrong but I think they ended up going for a stretch and loosing the kids because they were a bit zelotty about it all...

I could be wrong but its in there somewhere with all the other gunk that clogs up my brain cells...
		
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There's one in the papers just now  child was only breastfed (nothing else) and died of malnutrition. I think most vegans are a bit smarter than those parents!


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## jsr (30 March 2011)

I'm a life long vegetarian, bought up as one and continued to make the choice to not eat meat. My parents made sure I knew exactly where meat came from, what the animal went through in order to get on someone's plate and we witnessed first hand the slaughter process. We raised and kept our own chickens and even as a very small child I knew the right way to handle and care for animals. 

Where I differ from alot of strict vegetarians is I think every single child should be educated to understand (ok maybe not see actual slaughter) where meat comes from and therefore I completely agree with those of you who are teaching your children to hunt for their own food. If a child understands the connection between the animal and food it's all for the good surely?

I abhor seeing children sitting in fast food places stuffing burgers and bits of processed crap that is called 'chicken' down their gullets now to me that's child abuse.


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## Daddy_Long_Legs (30 March 2011)

Paddydou said:



			Actually... and I shall say this very quietly... I think there was a case many moons ago where a couple where charged with abuse because they forced their children to be vegans and the children ended up rather unwell... I could be wrong but I think they ended up going for a stretch and loosing the kids because they were a bit zelotty about it all...

I could be wrong but its in there somewhere with all the other gunk that clogs up my brain cells...
		
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I think that was in the states? A vegan couple had their child taken off them because he nearly died of malnutriion. They were given plenty of warnings but I don't actually know if they did time for it. 

Obviously my parents were terrible abusers as I was encouraged to shoot fish and hunt from an early age. I must go a seek free counselling......


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## Scranny_Ann (30 March 2011)

The mind boggles indeed!  

I have grown up around fishing, hunting, gamekeeping, horses, working dogs, working terriers etc.  I shoot game, vermin etc.  I eat any meat put on my plate; rabbit, deer, partridge, pheasant, duck, pigeon etc.

Therefore, to answer your question, no i do not feel like an abused child; I feel privileged to have grown up with this way of life and i'm pleased i'm not a mindless chav who thinks venison is a breed of dog!!


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## millreef (30 March 2011)

Please don't hate me.... BUT, I think that putting a poll about hunting on the horse and hound online forum in the Hunting forum then you're hardly going to get a stratified sample..... Like I said, please don't hate me


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## Spudlet (30 March 2011)

Sometimes, small persons came out on the shoot I went to last year. They all had excellent hats (the day-glo one that one young lady was sporting was much appreciated when I go sent off all on my own on my first ever drive and didn't know where I was going, I just aimed for the flourescent orange spot in the hedge!) and were generally very nice, which coming from me is frankly amazing cos I'm generally allergic to anyone I'm not related to below the age of 16 Some of them followed me about on drives, which showed their youthful inexperience as I was generally hopelessly lost and was just following the noise all the other beaters were making

IMO, these children were learning valuable lessons about where their food came from. Some of them had a shot with an air-rifle at the end of the day, under adult supervision - so they learned that firearms are not toys, and how to ne responsible with them. Some adults could do with learning that as well!

As my own mum said when I had prepared and cooked my first ever brace of pheasants for the family, that dinner had more integrity than anything you could buy in the supermarket. I knew just where it had come from, how the birds had lived and how they had died too. (Even if hanging them in the shed without telling my step-dad was a mistake, since he walked into them in the dark when looking for something else, and nearly had a heart attack). I think young people could do a lot worse than learn that as well (not about booby-trapping the shed, about eating with integrity and respect for the animal that is your dinner).

So, all that waffle equates to - what a load of codswallop, child abuse indeed, good grief, never heard such rubbish


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## Paddydou (31 March 2011)

SusannaF said:



			There's one in the papers just now  child was only breastfed (nothing else) and died of malnutrition. I think most vegans are a bit smarter than those parents!
		
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Do not start me off on breast feeding. Just seen on Yahoo an article about a new breast feeding doll... In my humble opinion so very wrong on so many levels...

Most vegans I know are pretty intelligent people but they also don't force their ideas on others...

To be honest I think all of this is basically a lack of education and understanding about food in general. Again I bleat on about this so much it must get boring to listen to!


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## SusannaF (31 March 2011)

Paddydou said:



			Do not start me off on breast feeding. Just seen on Yahoo an article about a new breast feeding doll... In my humble opinion so very wrong on so many levels...

Most vegans I know are pretty intelligent people but they also don't force their ideas on others...

To be honest I think all of this is basically a lack of education and understanding about food in general. Again I bleat on about this so much it must get boring to listen to!
		
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Did you see the link on my first post on page one?  Meat eaters without a clue... Astonishing.

And yes, the breastfeeding thing is nutty too. Nothing wrong with doing it, but the insistence that it's the ONLY way is mad. I was once on an online discussion where a woman started talking about "lost generations" of British babies who had been bottlefed. When I commented about how sanitation, vaccination and fridges had contributed more to infant survival rates, and how millions of British babies didn't die from being bottlefed, she oddly vanished...


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## EAST KENT (31 March 2011)

Perhaps then it is child abuse for parents to let them sit watching films of lions throttling Zebras ??


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## Spudlet (31 March 2011)

EAST KENT said:



			Perhaps then it is child abuse for parents to let them sit watching films of lions throttling Zebras ??
		
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Yes, but we are only thinking like this because we are Damaged and Coarsened


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## JanetGeorge (31 March 2011)

Paddydou said:



			Actually... and I shall say this very quietly... I think there was a case many moons ago where a couple where charged with abuse because they forced their children to be vegans and the children ended up rather unwell...
		
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A French couple who are vegans are in court this week in relation to the death of their 11 month old daughter - "neglect or food deprivation followed by death".  They face up to 30 years in prison if convicted.

She was fed ONLY on breast milk and - possibly due to her mother's diet - suffered a severe B12 deficiency (amongst other problems.)


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## Giles (31 March 2011)

millreef said:



			Please don't hate me.... BUT, I think that putting a poll about hunting on the horse and hound online forum in the Hunting forum then you're hardly going to get a stratified sample..... Like I said, please don't hate me
		
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I was not thinking it would be a representative sample of the UK population


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## Fii (31 March 2011)

Daddy_Long_Legs said:



			Obviously my parents were terrible abusers as I was encouraged to shoot fish and hunt from an early age. I must go a seek free counselling......

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 Bit of overkill, shooting fish.


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## EAST KENT (1 April 2011)

Oh,but in my current read ,about Dame Edith Sitwell, there is an uncle who invented a tiny pistol to shoot wasps! That`s m` Boy!!


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## Simsar (1 April 2011)

Oh **** so getting Max my poor poor son to cut a throat on a deer and hang it was wrong never mind! He was 7!


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## aidybex (1 April 2011)

Oh dear - I'd best ring childline as my daughter gets very excited about our chicken culls when they are old or excess cockrels. She also enjoys eating them!

She experienced her first season of mounted fox hunting this season and throughly enjoyed herself............

Oh.....and I have spent 2 days this week being trained on the Impact of Neglect on Children. Being exposed to blood sports didn't get mentioned once to be honest

*toodles off to get notes out just to make sure I didn't miss it - LOL*


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## SusannaF (1 April 2011)

A school in Germany decided to show children how a rabbit would have been killed by Stone Age hunters... Much ado ensued:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,754363,00.html


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## madeleine1 (1 April 2011)

i dont hunt, or fish or shoot 

ok so i eat meet but thats it 

however i think that article is competely fowl and i dont no how the writer justifies themselves. 

it is pure opinion based on the social factors that they have been exposed to and its horendous that people are allowed to write propaganda like this on an offical website


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## houndsplease (1 April 2011)

do they really believe the rubbish that comes out of the tiny minds? it really is laughable


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## hunting mad (1 April 2011)

All 3 of my boys go hunting,shooting etc.....live on a farm and eat meat.Its a healthy way of live for them.
One of the boys health visitors (many years ago) told me farm life was a boring way of life for children!!
Also, again many years ago,i was reported to,and investigated by social services for taking my boys hunting and shooting!!!
This world that we live in has gone crazy!!!:


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## EAST KENT (1 April 2011)

Me ,I`m almost a veggie..except I WILL eat meat wild caught,just not anything that`s been through the factory farming route or salaughterhouses.


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## Simsar (2 April 2011)

madeleine1 said:



			i dont hunt, or fish or shoot Maybe you should give it a go.

ok so i eat meet but thats it that's enough people kill things so YOU can eat. 
however i think that article is competely fowl and i dont no how the writer justifies themselves. Its called life and we don't care for boring **** that you do.

it is pure opinion based on the social factors that they have been exposed to and its horendous that people are allowed to write propaganda like this on an offical website
		
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So my son should ride a cow and jump 2 ft I don't think so!


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## VOM (2 April 2011)

SusannaF said:



			By that definition I'd say anyone whose child is not a vegan is involved, somehow, in the abuse of children and the encouragement of animal slaughter, no?

http://stonehead.wordpress.com/2008/11/23/cant-you-have-pork-without-killing-the-pigs/

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Did anyone else hear the awful story on the news about the baby in France that died from malnutrition, the mother was breast feeding him but because she was vegan the baby was'nt getting enough from her and died. The mother is now up on  manslaughter charges. So so sad, very upsetting.  

(I heard from a friend the other day so didnt see the news story myself)


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## rosie fronfelen (3 April 2011)

Our boys when young, both had ferrets,used to go with their dad round therabbit holes with their nets and spent many a sunday afternoon doing that,then they took up hunting
soits a wonder social services werent called out, lol-


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## EAST KENT (3 April 2011)

Simsar said:



			Oh **** so getting Max my poor poor son to cut a throat on a deer and hang it was wrong never mind! He was 7! 

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Was it alive at the time??


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## tallyho! (3 April 2011)

Sooooo what if you lived in a poor country and was forced to kill a mongoose for dinner??? Is THAT child abuse?


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## madeleine1 (3 April 2011)

Simsar said:



			So my son should ride a cow and jump 2 ft I don't think so!
		
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i dont understand your point, i was saying i dont hunt not that i dont agree with it, infact i am planing on gettin my horse ready for it just hvnt done it yet.

my point was althought i dont hunt and do the other stuff so im not one of the people the article is having a go at i still think the article is wrong


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## Dizzyblonde99 (3 April 2011)

Looks like I've been abused then!


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## ThePinkPony (3 April 2011)

my best friend was a deputy manager of a very high end private nursery and she was actually given a written warning for talking innappropriately to children. when she asked what it was that she had said her manager told her that another staff member had overheard her replying to a childs question 'whats mcdonalds made from' with 'beef which comes from cows'...and the only reason it was written warning was because she had also been overhead telling a child that eggs come from chickens not from tescos!!

she left and is now manager of a much better establishment, but seriously!!!

i love taking my son out with his dad lamping and shooting. hes been going to hunt meets since he was 8 weeks old! when he is old enough he will learn gun safety and then hopefully have an interest in our lifestyle!

i knew so much more about the countryside and my environment because of what i learned growing up the way i did. i was more aware of what i was putting into my body and understood from a very early age how to catch/kill/prepare and eat my food. kids should know where their food comes from.


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## SusannaF (4 April 2011)

tallyho! said:



			Sooooo what if you lived in a poor country and was forced to kill a mongoose for dinner??? Is THAT child abuse?
		
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Ditto Amazonian tribes, Inuits, all Fourth World folk...


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## riding_high (4 April 2011)

i get told on a regular basis that i'm cruel for expecting my kids to go out in all weather to 'help' me with the horses. 
the people that tell me this are the ones that let their kids sit in front of the tv or computer all day and night, their kids are either slightly overweight or obese, have no manners, rarely see their parents and the parents don't know much about their kids.

so who's the one that 'abuses' their kids?

my kids know where meat comes from, knows what goes on in the countryside and are fit and healthy. oh and i know them very well!


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## Simsar (4 April 2011)

EAST KENT said:



			Was it alive at the time??  

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No had just been shot, but if it had been road kill then yes.


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## Simsar (4 April 2011)

tallyho! said:



			Sooooo what if you lived in a poor country and was forced to kill a mongoose for dinner??? Is THAT child abuse?
		
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Only if it tasted like ****.


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## Alec Swan (4 April 2011)

It's my understanding that,  _currently_,  it is still the responsibility of the parents to decide just how they offer any influences,  towards their child's upbringing.

I have,  on two separate and unconnected occasions,  had small children arrive unexpectedly,  when I was killing a lamb,  for our own use.  It was very strange!!

On both occasions there was a complete and opposing reaction from the children,  and their parents.  The parents were initially horrified at what was before them.  The children were fascinated,  and to the point where an unclean hand had to direct their heads out of the way,  whilst I was working!!  It was that,  or loose an ear. 

For me,  the real satisfaction,  was the eventual,  and they grasped the point,  point,  that children will learn from the most unlikely sources,  which the parents accepted.  As I grew up,  witnessing all farm stock arriving into this world,  and also leaving it,  so I would hope that all children,  could have such opportunities.

Alec.


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## Simsar (4 April 2011)

Spot on as usual Mr Swan. x


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## rosie fronfelen (4 April 2011)

I wonder who the 2 in the poll were???


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## ClobellsandBaubles (4 April 2011)

riding_high said:



			i get told on a regular basis that i'm cruel for expecting my kids to go out in all weather to 'help' me with the horses. 
the people that tell me this are the ones that let their kids sit in front of the tv or computer all day and night, their kids are either slightly overweight or obese, have no manners, rarely see their parents and the parents don't know much about their kids.

so who's the one that 'abuses' their kids?

my kids know where meat comes from, knows what goes on in the countryside and are fit and healthy. oh and i know them very well!
		
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and allow there kids to watch violent films/ youtube videos and have no idea about what they are looking at.
i wonder if those playstation games where you shoot down loads of people steal cars and is a general blood bath is also child abuse?
as for kids not knowing where their food comes from i used to help at a trekking yard leading out rides etc. took out a ride of kids from city somewhere. they got incredibly worried that i was going to die from eating the berrys (blackberries or raspberries can't rememeber) from the hedgerow how do i know they are not poisonous when they don't come in a carton, then tried to convince me that a field full of sheep (quite dirty and recently sheared) where actually pigs because they weren't fluffy and snowy white. the mind boggles


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## juventino (5 April 2011)

SusannaF said:



			By that definition I'd say anyone whose child is not a vegan is involved, somehow, in the abuse of children and the encouragement of animal slaughter, no?

http://stonehead.wordpress.com/2008/11/23/cant-you-have-pork-without-killing-the-pigs/

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This highlights a very real problem in the UK that people don't know where their food comes from. It's packaged in plastic boxes in the supermarket or in polystyrene boxes in fast food outlets containing non-descript 'stuff', shaped or cut meat that has no bearing on the source of the food. 

People who might complain about shooting pheasant happily eat factory farmed pork in complete ignorance of the animal suffering involved in intensive farming. 

I'll happily eat the usual organic meat and also shot game of various types (I'm a lousy shot so won't attempt it myself!). This is why I like farmers' markets - you know the source of the food.


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## Hobbitpony (6 April 2011)

ThePinkPony said:



			my best friend was a deputy manager of a very high end private nursery and she was actually given a written warning for talking innappropriately to children. when she asked what it was that she had said her manager told her that another staff member had overheard her replying to a childs question 'whats mcdonalds made from' with 'beef which comes from cows'...and the only reason it was written warning was because she had also been overhead telling a child that eggs come from chickens not from tescos!!.
		
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Oh good grief!!! It is a very sterile world we live in these days. I grew up in rural Africa, only meat available was directly from the abatoir (complete with vultures!!) or chickens butchered at home. When there was a military coup and food got very tight the locals got by eating dogs and rats! We don't appreciate how lucky we are in this country. These people should try living somewhere where there is the very real prospect of not having enough to eat and then see which way their moral compass points.


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