# Hunt Sabouteurs



## redfoxhunter (29 November 2014)

I find it very disturbing that Hunt Sabouteurs will leave shockingly bad reviews for pubs that host hunt meets. Do they not understand the effect this can have on a small, family run establishment? What landlord in his/her right mind would turn down the money a breakfast can earn in this current climate? Why should they be punished for a hunts actions when, for all intents and purposes, all they are doing is running a business? Morals are all well and good, but they do not pay the bills. 

Yes, I trail hunt but I do not inflict my views on others. I am quite happy to accept that people do not accept or agree with hunting (as long as the decision is informed, like the pro hunting argument should also be). I cannot understand the mindset that would do this. 

Reading comments on one Hunt Sabs page, almost 90% of the comments involve the words 'posh' or 'rich'. I'm neither, I work bloody hard to be able to hunt and it riles me that everyone that hunts is seen this way. Reverse snobbery at it's worst. Does this mean I should start calling everyone that is not a hunt subscriber 'common' and 'poor'? Imagine the outrage! 

Pointless post really, but shocked at what a bit of boredom & not being able to sleep can find on Facebook!


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## Orangehorse (29 November 2014)

I heard about this today.  A pub held a meet, a hunt that advertises that it is a trail hunt.  The sabs went into the pub when it was busy with diners and customers and created a big row and fuss, so much so that the customers left.  The sabs said that if the pub held meets there again they would keep coming back and disrupt the business.  

This is a Police matter, I hope someone was quick thinking enough to get a recording on their phone.


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## Alec Swan (29 November 2014)

redfoxhunter said:



			&#8230;&#8230;.. . Do they not understand the effect this can have on a small, family run establishment? &#8230;&#8230;..
		
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Of course they understand,  that's why they do it.  The truth is that they care little for the Landlord or his family,  their only concerns are with their narrow and bitter lives.

On the bright side,  there are those,  like you and I perhaps,  who if we're local,  will offer support by way of business to those who are victimised.

Alec.


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## redfoxhunter (29 November 2014)

Alec Swan said:



			On the bright side,  there are those,  like you and I perhaps,  who if we're local,  will offer support by way of business to those who are victimised.

Alec.
		
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With bells on.


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## LittleRooketRider (29 November 2014)

If its not a a "class battle" I'm Winston Churchill...out following my little sister today (her first time on new pony...good as gold...YAY!!)and we were joined by 80 antis (police numbers)

Apparantly we're "rich/posh scum".....um no we're dairy farmers and our friends are mostly farmers, nurses, office-workers, students...need I go on

Apparantly swearing at and intimidating children (one young boy was surrounded when he joined the hunt late) makes them better people?!..and driving a truck into a pony and trying to call hounds across the road makes them animal lovers.

They say they are preventing crime but they themselves trespassed on private land (they were asked to leave) and then assaulted the land owner by hitting him across the back with a baton...then theres the reckless driving, speeding along country lanes at 60 mph , yeah thats legal!They turned up in army gear, balaclavas etc, not illegal, but they were gunning for a fight...the police were called and dealt  (ish) with it.
Put it this way, we are sick of them and I must commend the hunt/field for showing a united front and staying above it all, not to forgetting the local landowners/farmers who stuck together.

I'm all for people having their own opinions, I hunt I understand that some people don't agree with it, thats fine, but this behaviour is ridiculous.


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## cptrayes (29 November 2014)

They are doing it because hunts are hunting fox. They may be picking on the wrong ones, but as long as so many hunts are hunting fox like in the old days there will be sabbing like in the old days.

I do not condone the behaviour of either set of law breakers.

But if you want sabbing to stop, you have to find a way to stop illegal fox hunting.


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## LittleRooketRider (29 November 2014)

cptrayes said:



			They are doing it because hunts are hunting fox. They may be picking on the wrong ones, but as long as so many hunts are hunting fox like in the old days there will be sabbing like in the old days.

I do not condone the behaviour of either set of law breakers.

But if you want sabbing to stop, you have to find a way to stop illegal fox hunting.
		
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Well they're targetting the wrong hunt....but regardless even if a hunt does hunt illegally (not that I condone it at all) pepper-spraying ponies and children at a PC pony club meet is no way to behave (not that this hunt did/does)

If they plan to break "our spirit" (really would prefer a better phrase) I'd say its back firing, they've riled  alot of people and as can be seen on here hunting folk tend to stick together.

A ocal hunt I know have come up with what I think is the best response...they are regularly filmed by "monitors" so when they go past them on the road the whole field smile and wave ectstatically at the camera.


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## LittleRooketRider (29 November 2014)

redfoxhunter said:



			With bells on.
		
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here here


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## cptrayes (29 November 2014)

LittleRocketRider said:



			Well they're targetting the wrong hunt....but regardless even if a hunt does hunt illegally (not that I condone it at all) pepper-spraying ponies and children at a PC pony club meet is no way to behave (not that this hunt did/does)

If they plan to break "our spirit" (really would prefer a better phrase) I'd say its back firing, they've riled  alot of people and as can be seen on here hunting folk tend to stick together.

A ocal hunt I know have come up with what I think is the best response...they are regularly filmed by "monitors" so when they go past them on the road the whole field smile and wave ectstatically at the camera. 

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I completely agree with you and it must have been extremely upsetting. Their behaviour is completely out of order, but  unfortunately we don't have the resources to police either set of law breakers.


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## Equi (29 November 2014)

LittleRocketRider said:



			If its not a a "class battle" I'm Winston Churchill...out following my little sister today (her first time on new pony...good as gold...YAY!!)and we were joined by 80 antis (police numbers)

Apparantly we're "rich/posh scum".....um no we're dairy farmers and our friends are mostly farmers, nurses, office-workers, students...need I go on

Apparantly swearing at and intimidating children (one young boy was surrounded when he joined the hunt late) makes them better people?!..and driving a truck into a pony and trying to call hounds across the road makes them animal lovers.

They say they are preventing crime but they themselves trespassed on private land (they were asked to leave) and then assaulted the land owner by hitting him across the back with a baton...then theres the reckless driving, speeding along country lanes at 60 mph , yeah thats legal!They turned up in army gear, balaclavas etc, not illegal, but they were gunning for a fight...the police were called and dealt  (ish) with it.
Put it this way, we are sick of them and I must commend the hunt/field for showing a united front and staying above it all, not to forgetting the local landowners/farmers who stuck together.

I'm all for people having their own opinions, I hunt I understand that some people don't agree with it, thats fine, but this behaviour is ridiculous.
		
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Im not a huge fan of hunting but know its needed and i am totally against hunting for SPORT, but this comment is totally how i feel about them too. Anyone who turns up in bala clavas and willingly puts people and horses and dogs in danger because they think ONE fox might die, is just a bloody idiot. They think the horses and dogs are "in on it" too because of their warped brains. What do they think would happen to them if hunting was stopped totally! But then i suppose living with humans is offending and they are better off dead anyway -rolls eyes-


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## LittleRooketRider (29 November 2014)

equi said:



			Im not a huge fan of hunting but know its needed and i am totally against hunting for SPORT, but this comment is totally how i feel about them too. Anyone who turns up in bala clavas and willingly puts people and horses and dogs in danger because they think ONE fox might die, is just a bloody idiot. They think the horses and dogs are "in on it" too because of their warped brains. What do they think would happen to them if hunting was stopped totally! But then i suppose living with humans is offending and they are better off dead anyway -rolls eyes-
		
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I wish more people could have a balanced perspective...like I said not everybody has to love or even like hunting. Why can't people respect other peoples views and behave rationally is beyond me?


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## Alec Swan (30 November 2014)

equi said:



			Im not a huge fan of hunting but know its needed and i am totally against hunting for SPORT, but this comment is totally how i feel about them too. Anyone who turns up in bala clavas and willingly puts people and horses and dogs in danger because they think ONE fox might die, is just a bloody idiot. They think the horses and dogs are "in on it" too because of their warped brains. What do they think would happen to them if hunting was stopped totally! But then i suppose living with humans is offending and they are better off dead anyway -rolls eyes-
		
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As LRR,  a sensible and balanced post.  There is much about hunting which I dislike,  and some of it is fundamental,  but I accept the sport,  and those who take part,  as a part of the deal.  Those who put the lives of horses,  hounds and humans,  at risk and because of their senseless conduct,  would claim whilst doing so,  to hold the moral high ground.  They care little for human or animal life,  for that matter.  They care only for their class riven view of Society.

Alec.


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## irishdraft (30 November 2014)

Unfortunately it is not only the very obvious hunt saboteurs who are ignorant I was out with the bloodhounds last Wednesday & we had an old man shouting & swearing at us that we were f..ing this & that because a few sheep were running in the field we were in. He was informed that we had permission & the farmer was out with us but this didn't stop him calling the police  who arrived in minutes !! Who then proceeded to take photos and details of our website if only they were so prompt with actual crime the whole hunting/sabs/police is a joke


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## redfoxhunter (30 November 2014)

Some of the comments they leave on their facebook page about the subscribers are horrific. Derogatory comments on riders weight, or appearance and wishes of 'hope they break their necks' or 'die a slow death'. What is the point?


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## Countryman (30 November 2014)

LittleRocketRider said:



			If its not a a "class battle" I'm Winston Churchill...out following my little sister today (her first time on new pony...good as gold...YAY!!)and we were joined by 80 antis (police numbers)

Apparantly we're "rich/posh scum".....um no we're dairy farmers and our friends are mostly farmers, nurses, office-workers, students...need I go on

Apparantly swearing at and intimidating children (one young boy was surrounded when he joined the hunt late) makes them better people?!..and driving a truck into a pony and trying to call hounds across the road makes them animal lovers.
		
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This proves just how they really aren't interested in animal welfare at all, and simply hate hunts, hunters, the countryside and everything they think hunting stands for.
However, on the bright side, it is just a handful of embittered zealots. You had 80 out with you-but that was almost every single Sab group in the South East and South West. Apparently they had to call in sabs from as far away as Kent, Cambridge and Buckinghamshire - and yet still they were outnumbered by the field of a single hunt!


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## Luci07 (30 November 2014)

Years ago, before the ban, I sat on the fence and had no strong opinion. Having had the misfortune  to run across sabs out after the Surrey Union made my mind up for me. Nothing remotely pleasant about being challenged and sworn out by a group of men in khakis and balaclavas when all I was doing was hacking ...and escorting a friends daughter.

Went hunting a week later.


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## bakewell (30 November 2014)

Luci07 said:



			Years ago, before the ban, I sat on the fence and had no strong opinion. Having had the misfortune  to run across sabs out after the Surrey Union made my mind up for me. Nothing remotely pleasant about being challenged and sworn out by a group of men in khakis and balaclavas when all I was doing was hacking ...and escorting a friends daughter.

Went hunting a week later.
		
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I really wish they'd get into paintballing or air soft if they want to play at being special forces/ being guerrilla fighters. 
And I promise to never turn up, swear, obstruct or cause a fuss over their activities.


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## LittleRooketRider (30 November 2014)

Its a joke really...they post so much BS on their FB pages. Interesting that they claim to be devout law abiders as the police discovered/noticed one of their main trucks was a stolen vehicle.

Countryman, according to their fb page it was a 'Mass Sab' of 18 groups including some from Norfolk, North East london and so on. I like you thinking  bakewell, given their insistance on wearing full army gettup + balaclavas "for their own protection"

They called it a successful 'Hit' but to be honest everybody was/is laughing at them...and if somebody could explain to me how any human beings could "keep pace" with a fit hunter and "keep them (the hunt master) on the move" I would like to know that fitness regime?!

They seem to have the impression that the hunt stand around all day.


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## Countryman (30 November 2014)

LittleRocketRider said:



			Its a joke really...they post so much BS on their FB pages.

Countryman, according to their fb page it was a 'Mass Sab' of 18 groups including some from Norfolk, North East london and so on.

They called it a successful 'Hit' but to be honest everybody was/is laughing at them...and if somebody could explain to me how any human beings could "keep pace" with a fit hunter and "keep them (the hunt master) on the move" I would like to know that fitness regime?!

They seem to have the impression that the hunt stand around all day.
		
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Interesting. It seems there are only around 150 sabs in the whole country! A far cry from the days when several hunts would get that many each every Saturday...


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## Nancykitt (1 December 2014)

cptrayes said:



			But if you want sabbing to stop, you have to find a way to stop illegal fox hunting.
		
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Sabs are not driven by illegal fox hunting, they appear to be driven by anything hunting-related. 
Remember that there are a number of packs hunting foxes legally, for example by using a bird of prey. You may not like it but they are not doing anything illegal.

Basically, sabs and many antis just hate anyone who hunts, drag hunting and trail hunting included. In February 2013 I went out with the drag hunt I often hunted with. This pack was set up as a drag hunt, I had been out with them many times and the only time I saw anything killed was when the hounds got a grey squirrel in the pub car park one day before we set off (not very nice but it was all over before anyone could do anything about it.) On this particular day in February, a fox crossed a road in front of us and the hounds went in that direction. The huntsman successfully called the hounds off and got them back on the trail, the fox went heading off through the trees. Someone in a car had seen the fox cross the road and decided to stir up trouble by contacting a few local nutters. By that evening, according to Facebook, we were all murdering scum, we had murdered a 'beautiful vixen', we all needed murdering ourselves etc etc. There were a couple of so-called animal charities calling for everyone to take a stand against people like us. It got very nasty indeed, lots of stuff about us being toffee-nosed wealthy scroungers and the like. I made a comment stating the truth and got messaged with threats, including someone who said that if they knew where I lived they would make sure I suffered until my last breath, just like all the other snobby stuck-up idiots I was with. (If only they knew I was born and bred on an inner city council estate!)

Stopping hunting, legal or illegal, fox, trail, whatever - will definitely not stop the sabs because these people thrive on trouble. I don't really have an answer about how to stop them but I would like more of the general public to be able to see these people for the extremist nutters that they are.


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## LittleRooketRider (1 December 2014)

Nutters they certainly are..they will destroy the countryside, a while back a farmer had trouble with antis tipping up all his chicken-feeders, wasting all the feed and then posting on fb (with photos) about their success in saving some "beautiful pheasants" which were being "fattened for the blood-thirsty snobs to shoot out of the sky"...erm good luck getting those "pheasants" to fly


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## Countryman (1 December 2014)

Nancykitt said:



			Sabs are not driven by illegal fox hunting, they appear to be driven by anything hunting-related. 
Remember that there are a number of packs hunting foxes legally, for example by using a bird of prey. You may not like it but they are not doing anything illegal.
		
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This is very true. They also try to disrupt beagle packs which are going out to hunt live quarry perfectly within the law-either wounded/shot hares or rabbits flushed with a ferret. They are not interested in what the law is at all.


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## Orangehorse (1 December 2014)

I just wish they would put all that energy and purpose into something worthwhile.  I am sure Riding for the Disabled would welcome extra helpers.


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## Isbister (1 December 2014)

A perhaps appropriate and fitting end for a would-be hunt saboteur occurs in a film, the List of Adrian Messenger. It is described here:

_"That night, Brougham sabotages the next mornings hunt by laying a drag with a fox in a sack over the fields. He especially marks a blind spot behind a high wall, and moves a large hay tedder behind, intending for Gethryn (who has been given the honour of leading the hunt) to be impaled upon its lethal tines. Unbeknownst to Brougham, his plan goes awry when a farmer repositions the tedder early the next morning. The hunt commences but comes to a halt at the specified spot. Gethryn reveals to the gathered crowd that he discovered and removed the hay-tedder booby trap earlier that morning and, with the help of the lead fox hound, will detect the scent of the culprit amongst a group of hunt saboteurs. Brougham, once again disguised, is identified and runs off, mounting Derek's horse. When Derek shouts a command to the horse, the animal stops short, throwing Brougham and impaling him on the very same machine he intended for Gethryn."_


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## Christmas Crumpet (1 December 2014)

LittleRocketRider said:



			If its not a a "class battle" I'm Winston Churchill...out following my little sister today (her first time on new pony...good as gold...YAY!!)and we were joined by 80 antis (police numbers)

Apparantly we're "rich/posh scum".....um no we're dairy farmers and our friends are mostly farmers, nurses, office-workers, students...need I go on

Apparantly swearing at and intimidating children (one young boy was surrounded when he joined the hunt late) makes them better people?!..and driving a truck into a pony and trying to call hounds across the road makes them animal lovers.

They say they are preventing crime but they themselves trespassed on private land (they were asked to leave) and then assaulted the land owner by hitting him across the back with a baton...then theres the reckless driving, speeding along country lanes at 60 mph , yeah thats legal!They turned up in army gear, balaclavas etc, not illegal, but they were gunning for a fight...the police were called and dealt  (ish) with it.
Put it this way, we are sick of them and I must commend the hunt/field for showing a united front and staying above it all, not to forgetting the local landowners/farmers who stuck together.

I'm all for people having their own opinions, I hunt I understand that some people don't agree with it, thats fine, but this behaviour is ridiculous.
		
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Little Rocket Rider - I know exactly who you were out with on Sat as OH was out with you on his feet. The actual number of antis was 92. Unbelieveable. I was away racing so didn't hunt but we had them out with us the previous Saturday although far less than you. It seems to me that we are returning to the days of the late eighties/early nineties where hunting turned into massive riots with a lot of fighting. Obviously it didn't happen last weekend but it will.


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## LittleRooketRider (1 December 2014)

carolineb said:



			Little Rocket Rider - I know exactly who you were out with on Sat as OH was out with you on his feet. The actual number of antis was 92. Unbelieveable. I was away racing so didn't hunt but we had them out with us the previous Saturday although far less than you. It seems to me that we are returning to the days of the late eighties/early nineties where hunting turned into massive riots with a lot of fighting. Obviously it didn't happen last weekend but it will.
		
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Yes I won't be surprised if it does become a fight/riot, it came pretty close...but based on this experience they are cowards who target individuals....and the hunt did a brilliant job of keeping everybody together and safe

They are blatantly scared of horses...quite handy for preventing them from following


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## Countryman (2 December 2014)

carolineb said:



			Little Rocket Rider - I know exactly who you were out with on Sat as OH was out with you on his feet. The actual number of antis was 92. Unbelieveable. I was away racing so didn't hunt but we had them out with us the previous Saturday although far less than you. It seems to me that we are returning to the days of the late eighties/early nineties where hunting turned into massive riots with a lot of fighting. Obviously it didn't happen last weekend but it will.
		
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Personally I doubt we are returning to those days, because society has moved on-sab numbers are down, most of the current sabs are the same hardcore who started in the 80's or 90's... The incident with the hunt in question on Saturday proves this - I think there were just two other hunts South of Birmingham targeted by antis that day. Compare that to the old days when sabs were regular visitors to the majority of hunts.


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## LittleRooketRider (2 December 2014)

I think it speaks volumes that all they have a is a bunch of recycled insults ("inbred" "snobs" "scum" etc.) and close-ups of various hunt member/followers accompanied by uncomplimentary references to appearance, plus a photo of somebody on a horse. Furthetrmore, their hypocrisy i.e. photo of a follower with a neck scarf, cap and sunglasse and a camera criticised for being happy to record others but not "daring" to show his face...umm their cover photo on fb and all other photos/videos show them in balaclavas/hiding their faces and filming everyone and anyone for no apparent reason.

They're a laughing stock really.


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## Jaffa (4 December 2014)

LittleRoodolphRider said:



			If its not a a "class battle" I'm Winston Churchill...out following my little sister today (her first time on new pony...good as gold...YAY!!)and we were joined by 80 antis (police numbers)

Apparantly we're "rich/posh scum".....um no we're dairy farmers and our friends are mostly farmers, nurses, office-workers, students...need I go on

Apparantly swearing at and intimidating children (one young boy was surrounded when he joined the hunt late) makes them better people?!..and driving a truck into a pony and trying to call hounds across the road makes them animal lovers.

They say they are preventing crime but they themselves trespassed on private land (they were asked to leave) and then assaulted the land owner by hitting him across the back with a baton...then theres the reckless driving, speeding along country lanes at 60 mph , yeah thats legal!They turned up in army gear, balaclavas etc, not illegal, but they were gunning for a fight...the police were called and dealt  (ish) with it.
Put it this way, we are sick of them and I must commend the hunt/field for showing a united front and staying above it all, not to forgetting the local landowners/farmers who stuck together.

I'm all for people having their own opinions, I hunt I understand that some people don't agree with it, thats fine, but this behaviour is ridiculous.
		
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I don't follow the hunt nor do I support it in *any* way, but that sort of behaviour is disgusting and the book should be thrown at these people.


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## Jenny Wrenny (4 December 2014)

The "PC" brigade are nothing more than vindictive class warriors.  Funnily enough I was having a nosey on Facebook too and came across a hunt sabouteurs page which made for alarming reading; they seem to think they are heroes when they spoil the day for everybody else.  They are ignorant and simply do not know how to behave.  They too sought an issue with a pub Landlord, trying to dissuade him from holding future meets, forcing their views on others who have different opinions and basically wanting an argument.  Yes, the difference of opinion which surrounds fox hunting will go on for ever but the real animal lovers are the hunting people, certainly not the sabs.  The hunt have permission from landowners to enter upon private land, the sabs do not but flagrantly tresspass to be aggressive and cause nuisance.  Perhaps this is why they feel the need to wear balaclavas over their faces!

They won't be happy until we are all lentil loving, sandal wearing, beard growing, pasty, sterile and grey complexioned boring individuals like themselves.  I myself will not be joining them, I am proud to be from a farming and hunting family.


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## Isbister (4 December 2014)

Jenny Wrenny said:



			The "PC" brigade are nothing more than vindictive class warriors.  ... lentil loving, sandal wearing, beard growing, pasty, sterile and grey complexioned boring individuals
		
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I think they are rather more sinister than that. They are unprincipled fascist terrorists in my view. I speak as a vegetarian animal lover who hunts.


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## LittleRooketRider (5 December 2014)

Isbister said:



			I think they are rather more sinister than that. They are unprincipled fascist terrorists in my view. I speak as a vegetarian animal lover who hunts.
		
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Funnily enough my family and I were discussing their likeness in apperance to terrorists.


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## Alec Swan (5 December 2014)

Jenny Wrenny said:



			The "PC" brigade are nothing more than vindictive class warriors.  Funnily enough I was having a nosey on Facebook too and came across a hunt sabouteurs page which made for alarming reading; they seem to think they are heroes when they spoil the day for everybody else.  They are ignorant and simply do not know how to behave.  They too sought an issue with a pub Landlord, trying to dissuade him from holding future meets, forcing their views on others who have different opinions and basically wanting an argument.  Yes, the difference of opinion which surrounds fox hunting will go on for ever but the real animal lovers are the hunting people, certainly not the sabs.  The hunt have permission from landowners to enter upon private land, the sabs do not but flagrantly tresspass to be aggressive and cause nuisance.  Perhaps this is why they feel the need to wear balaclavas over their faces!

They won't be happy until we are all lentil loving, sandal wearing, beard growing, pasty, sterile and grey complexioned boring individuals like themselves.  I myself will not be joining them, I am proud to be from a farming and hunting family.
		
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  You missed out that as it's we the tax payers who supply them with their benefits,  they could be a little more grateful!

I suspect that you and are are going to get along just fine! 

Alec.


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## Jenny Wrenny (5 December 2014)

Santa's-a-scam said:



  You missed out that as it's we the tax payers who supply them with their benefits,  they could be a little more grateful!

I suspect that you and are are going to get along just fine! 

Alec.
		
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Very good point!  It's a pity they don't put their energies into trying to be decent human beings.  The Duke of Wellington insisted that his officers were fox hunting men and quite right too!


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## LittleRooketRider (8 December 2014)

So I'd love to know how our supposed animal-loving "friends " can justify trying to shine laser-lights in th eyes of horses and ponies being ridden out hunting??

Not on at all


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