# AHAR (Animal Rescue Animal Hell) PETITION



## MyOldPony (3 February 2017)

Please sign the petition if like me and others you would like the extent of the cruelty going on in that place investigated and the mass graves uncovered and investigated.


https://www.change.org/p/minister-o...n-of-the-carcasses-buried?recruiter=674994065


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## SatansLittleHelper (4 February 2017)

Done!!


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## supermax (5 February 2017)

Hello Myoldpony   I am interested in signing petitions when it comes to animal cruelty of which of signed hundreds .Im doing research and investigating AHAR . I was wondering if theys are evidence  photos from authorities. News papers on this mass graves uncovered .You say investigated ...Is their any proof .If so. would you share .If imagines are sensitive...you can email them to me . Thanks


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## Dobiegirl (5 February 2017)

supermax said:



			Hello Myoldpony   I am interested in signing petitions when it comes to animal cruelty of which of signed hundreds .Im doing research and investigating AHAR . I was wondering if theys are evidence  photos from authorities. News papers on this mass graves uncovered .You say investigated ...Is their any proof .If so. would you share .If imagines are sensitive...you can email them to me . Thanks
		
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https://www.facebook.com/Animal-Heaven-Animal-Rescue-AHAR-Exposed-795034397244586/ Check out this page with lots of links to the newspaper articles and the tv programmes. Lots of ex admins have joined the above group with some very damaging evidence of cruelty, recordings of phone calls by the manager threatening people.


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## Chocolate moonbeam (12 February 2017)

Anyone signing this petition might like to know that some members of this group that the petitioner belongs to, have today been using a young girls animal welfare fund-raising page on Facebook to vent their spleen simply because of the fact she has raised money for and donated to AHAR.  

This people is the methods this group will employ in order to destroy an animal rescue.


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## Leo Walker (12 February 2017)

Thanks for bumping this up CM


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## stormox (12 February 2017)

No one is trying to destroy the rescue, chocolate moonbeam. They just want an investigation done by impartial people. If everything at the rescue is above board an investigation will enhance their (the rescue's)  reputation.
It is only if there is irregularities found that the rescue need be worried.


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## Chocolate moonbeam (12 February 2017)

stormox said:



			No one is trying to destroy the rescue, chocolate moonbeam. They just want an investigation done by impartial people. If everything at the rescue is above board an investigation will enhance their (the rescue's)  reputation.
It is only if there is irregularities found that the rescue need be worried.
		
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You think not.  So tell me Stormox, why are they personal messaging supporters asking them to request refunds back from paypal for any donations they have made?


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## paddi22 (12 February 2017)

the petition just asks for a full investigation of the charity. surely if everything is above board they have nothing to fear, and should welcome a chance to clear their name.


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## Chocolate moonbeam (12 February 2017)

paddi22 said:



			the petition just asks for a full investigation of the charity. surely if everything is above board they have nothing to fear, and should welcome a chance to clear their name.
		
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Their last petition failed dismally, it is likely this one will too and they know it.  These petitions are pointless really.  So not content with that they will use any method they can to destroy Ahar including what is posted about in previous posts. 

When they start messaging complete strangers and using a young girls fund raising page then its clear they are little more than bottom feeders.


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## paddi22 (13 February 2017)

so they have nothing to worry about so and should sail through...


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## stormox (13 February 2017)

paddi22 said:



			the petition just asks for a full investigation of the charity. surely if everything is above board they have nothing to fear, and should welcome a chance to clear their name.
		
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Exactly, Paddi. If they've nothing to hide they needn't fear an investigation. And chocolate moonbeam whether they are requesting supporters to refund monies or not (I know plenty of people, including myself, who have given donations and none have received a request to refund them) the messages can easily be ignored, or deleted. Or supporters can block the  message sender.
An impartial investigation of the rescue can only be a good thing.


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## gallopingby (13 February 2017)

Isn't it about time these anti AHAR posts were blocked, there have been a few over the last months/years and they are time wasting.

Before you all rush off to sign this petition how about looking at the info on the AHAR FB page. There you will discover that a group of people are persistent in their attempts to discredit AHAR. 

So to all that are considering signing - have you visited Ireland? 
Been to AHAR? 
Been to ANY animal rescue centre anywhere in the UK or Eire? 
Do you know what the nature of animal rescue is? - not much point in rescuing fat, shiny animals in good condition? You may be surprised to learn that animal rescue centres work hand in hand with other organisations - do you think the local pound would be letting them take animals if they weren't doing a good job? Maybe one of the differences between AHAR and other rescues is that they will do the extra mile and step in where others won't go -  at any time of the day or night. Sadly where there is livestock there will also be dead stock - no getting away from that. 
So....Paddi, Stormox and co maybe you could start your own rescue or divert your energies towards something more productive which would enable AHAR to get on with their work rather than have to spend time and energy responding to your activities, and just in case your thinking of messaging me - something which your group are good at I won't be responding to any messages about this.


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## stormox (13 February 2017)

gallopingby said:



			I
So....Paddi, Stormox and co maybe you could start your own rescue or divert your energies towards something more productive which would enable AHAR to get on with their work rather than have to spend time and energy responding to your activities, and just in case your thinking of messaging me - something which your group are good at I won't be responding to any messages about this.
		
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 As you have mentioned my name, I will reply. Yes I have been to AHAR. Yes I have volunteered for them. Yes I live in the same county as them. Yes I have actually been on the receiving end of some threatening behaviour from the employees there. I also know of some very misleading posts they have put on thir FB page. I have never been a member of any group, for or against.
But if AHAR have nothing to hide, why are they so scared of an investigation?

Gallopingby, could you post YOUR answers to your questions? I have answered them, its only  fair you should too.


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## paddi22 (13 February 2017)

gallopingby said:



			Isn't it about time these anti AHAR posts were blocked, there have been a few over the last months/years and they are time wasting.

Before you all rush off to sign this petition how about looking at the info on the AHAR FB page. There you will discover that a group of people are persistent in their attempts to discredit AHAR. 

So to all that are considering signing - have you visited Ireland? 
Been to AHAR? 
Been to ANY animal rescue centre anywhere in the UK or Eire? 
Do you know what the nature of animal rescue is? - not much point in rescuing fat, shiny animals in good condition? You may be surprised to learn that animal rescue centres work hand in hand with other organisations - do you think the local pound would be letting them take animals if they weren't doing a good job? Maybe one of the differences between AHAR and other rescues is that they will do the extra mile and step in where others won't go -  at any time of the day or night. Sadly where there is livestock there will also be dead stock - no getting away from that. 
So....Paddi, Stormox and co maybe you could start your own rescue or divert your energies towards something more productive which would enable AHAR to get on with their work rather than have to spend time and energy responding to your activities, and just in case your thinking of messaging me - something which your group are good at I won't be responding to any messages about this.
		
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oh god! this again.

i end up repeating this on every ahar thread as you get accused of the same thing.

I have visited ireland, (for 39 years since i was born here)
I have not been to ahar but have close contact with transporters, suppliers, other charities who interact with them on a regular basis.
I work with horse rescues. I know all about how charities interact and work with organisations. In fact, its because of that that I KNOW the issues ahar have and why people aren't happy with them. Can you name ONE established charity with a GOOD reputation who will say a good word about AHAR? Because i don't. I know exactly why suzanne wasn't allowed be a welfare officer for IHWT. That IHWT charity is one of the best regulated ones in ireland.  Ask them would they ever send a horse to AHAR? I know what they'd say.

Your livestock with deadstock comment is actually laughable. We don't have 'deadstock', we have animals who are respectfully put to sleep well before their suffering gets too much and they drop. Of course you get animals who drop dead of heart attacks, aneurisms etc , but the scale of that should be tiny. The idea that its fine to have  a yard of 'deadstock'  buried in the grounds is actually insane and shows the level of unreality that ahar functions in. 

I sleep perfectly well at night knowing that at any stage opf the year we have a  field of rescues being rehabilitated to new homes. What i don't have is horses crippled and dumping fields like hero, and then disappearing. Dying donkeys being dragged onto a sofa for a photo op to raise money. Horses being shipped with strangles..jesus, i could actually go on and on here.

So you can dismount off your judgy high horse there because myself and a lot of other posters here DO work with charities and rehab horses. So your rant to us is meaningless.


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## paddi22 (13 February 2017)

gallopingby  and chocolate moonbeam. Since ahar is so loving, caring and transparent in your eyes. Then it shouldn't be any hassle to get an update and a recent pic on how hero is doing? That sghould be easy shouldn't it? Since everyone donated for hero to get vet work done. Obviously suzanne will want to keep everyone in the loop of what happened. 
I mean an update is the simplest thing in the world. I have a cob in germany and i could show you an update of how she is any time. and thats in germany.

I look forward to you giving us all an update on that horse, but i would actually donate 100 euro to ahar if you could. Because you won't be able to. Because id put money the horse is dead. Thats after it was dumped onto wasteland crippled. which you seem to have no issue with

if a happy recent, ahar update is available on hero then i'l actually quit my job and work for ahar for ever wearing an 'ahar are the best tshirt'


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## Leo Walker (13 February 2017)

I've not been but a close personal friend and her partner were very heavily involved. Its only now they have been able to come clean about whats actually happening there and thats only because they have been able to get themselves out and away finally. 

By the sounds of it, its actually worse than anyone thinks


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## ester (13 February 2017)

gallopingby said:



			Isn't it about time these anti AHAR posts were blocked, there have been a few over the last months/years and they are time wasting.
		
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time wasting?? Why do you think people are on this forum in the first place. 

I await your response to Paddi and stormox's excellent list of credentials and involvement.

As always no one involved in or supporting of AHAR ever has responses to the important and very pertinent questions that have ever been put to them, often avoiding them in that fabulous politiciany manner of changing the subject. Yet the users of this forum who take issue with AHAR yet again respond to the questions asked of them. I know who makes me feel more comfortable.


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## touchstone (13 February 2017)

I'll be honest, if I was running a rescue and had people calling for an investigation Id be throwing the doors wide open and inviting the investigators in pedsonally, unless I had anything to hide.  

Sniping at the public because they want evidence that things are being done correctly doesn't give the impression of professionalism or openness that a reputable charity needs.


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## Chocolate moonbeam (13 February 2017)

Interesting.  Not one comment of condemnation for the people from this group invading the page of a young child, one even going so far as to threaten to usurp her fundraising efforts.

Bottom feeders indeed.


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## ester (13 February 2017)

Just because people do not think AHAR is doing a good job doesn't automatically mean they are involved in any other groups or supporting of them or their members and actions.

If it was a group on facebook I would hope she wasn't a young child given the age restrictions she has to have been at least a teenager. I don't tend to comment on stuff that someone has just claimed on the internet without knowing more about it otherwise it can get very he said/she said.


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## Chocolate moonbeam (13 February 2017)

touchstone said:



			I'll be honest, if I was running a rescue and had people calling for an investigation Id be throwing the doors wide open and inviting the investigators in pedsonally, unless I had anything to hide.  

Sniping at the public because they want evidence that things are being done correctly doesn't give the impression of professionalism or openness that a reputable charity needs.
		
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You obviously didn't see the letter from the DAFM outlining just how many visits (no doubt on the back of the anti pages complaints) announced and unannounced that Ahar have had in the past year.  Two in January 2017 alone, yet these people still aren't satisfied.


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## touchstone (13 February 2017)

Perhaps they were trying to point out to a very young girl  that all may not be as it seems?
I'd also question whether it is sensible of the parents to encourage their very young daughter to have a facebook page where she is bound to be open to such comments.
Insulting people doesn't tend to get them onside either.


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## Chocolate moonbeam (13 February 2017)

ester said:



			Just because people do not think AHAR is doing a good job doesn't automatically mean they are involved in any other groups or supporting of them or their members and actions.

If it was a group on facebook I would hope she wasn't a young child given the age restrictions she has to have been at least a teenager. I don't tend to comment on stuff that someone has just claimed on the internet without knowing more about it otherwise it can get very he said/she said.
		
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She is old enough to be on Facebook.


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## Chocolate moonbeam (13 February 2017)

touchstone said:



			Perhaps they were trying to point out to a very young girl  that all may not be as it seems?
I'd also question whether it is sensible of the parents to encourage their very young daughter to have a facebook page where she is bound to be open to such comments.
Insulting people doesn't tend to get them onside either.
		
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Or perhaps as adults and quite likely parents themselves they should have known better.


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## ester (13 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			She is old enough to be on Facebook.
		
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in which case she is not a 'young child' as you have stated.


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## paddi22 (13 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			Interesting.  Not one comment of condemnation for the people from this group invading the page of a young child, one even going so far as to threaten to usurp her fundraising efforts.

Bottom feeders indeed.
		
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typical distraction.

to throw it back at you - not one comment on a hero update... 


as regards a girls fundraising facebook page, i haven't a clue what this story is but i believe facebook have strict regulations about minors using facebook, so maybe if the parents had been more vigilant then the child wouldn't have been affected by it. No-one should be trolling a childs facebook page, but then children shouldn't have facebook pages unsupervised.


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## Chocolate moonbeam (13 February 2017)

ester said:



			in which case she is not a 'young child' as you have stated.
		
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Young enough


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## WeeLassie (13 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			Interesting.  Not one comment of condemnation for the people from this group invading the page of a young child, one even going so far as to threaten to usurp her fundraising efforts.

Bottom feeders indeed.
		
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What has this to do with AHAR? If someone was accusing me of doing anything untoward, I would be signing the petition myself, trying to get myself investigated, to clear my name. All people are trying to get is an unbiased investigaton- as far as I can see no one wants AHAR closed, just managed with more transparancy.
As AHAR seem not to want an investigation, that smacks of a guilty conscience.


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## Chocolate moonbeam (13 February 2017)

paddi22 said:



			typical distraction.

to throw it back at you - not one comment on a hero update... 


as regards a girls fundraising facebook page, i haven't a clue what this story is but i believe facebook have strict regulations about minors using facebook, so maybe if the parents had been more vigilant then the child wouldn't have been affected by it. No-one should be trolling a childs facebook page, but then children shouldn't have facebook pages unsupervised.
		
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Who said it was unsupervised.


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## Chocolate moonbeam (13 February 2017)

WeeLassie said:



			What has this to do with AHAR? If someone was accusing me of doing anything untoward, I would be signing the petition myself, trying to get myself investigated, to clear my name. All people are trying to get is an unbiased investigaton- as far as I can see no one wants AHAR closed, just managed with more transparancy.
As AHAR seem not to want an investigation, that smacks of a guilty conscience.
		
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It was people from the anti-Ahar page venting on a fundraising page just because she has fundraised and donated to Ahar.

That is what it has to do with Ahar.


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## touchstone (13 February 2017)

How is Hero doing then?


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## paddi22 (13 February 2017)

anyone who uses facebook knows there are always crazy comments on any topic, that is the nature of a facebook and comments. Parents who use facebook would know to expect this and censor the comments to keep if from the view of the child. So there should never have been an issue. You can distract away with this absolutely inconseqential random topic if you like. Now i've answered your question, where is your update on hero? Or are you avoiding the topic since you haven't mentioned it.


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## stormox (13 February 2017)

Just as they are avoiding to answer the questions they themselves asked earlier.

I agree with earlier posters - AHAR not wanting to be investigated tells its own story....


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## Chocolate moonbeam (13 February 2017)

paddi22 said:



			anyone who uses facebook knows there are always crazy comments on any topic, that is the nature of a facebook and comments. Parents who use facebook would know to expect this and censor the comments to keep if from the view of the child. So there should never have been an issue. You can distract away with this absolutely inconseqential random topic if you like. Now i've answered your question, where is your update on hero? Or are you avoiding the topic since you haven't mentioned it.
		
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Now you are trying to blame her parents.  Typical.


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## paddi22 (13 February 2017)

aaaaaaannnnddd back to hero update... your silence is deafening


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## ester (13 February 2017)

stormox said:



			Just as they are avoiding to answer the questions they themselves asked earlier.

I agree with earlier posters - AHAR not wanting to be investigated tells its own story....
		
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As I said, none of the AHAR supporters on here ever answer the pertinent questions, despite everyone answering theirs. 

So yes hero? that one shouldn't be too difficult, it is only one after all.

Are parents not responsible for protecting their children until the are an adult?


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## Chocolate moonbeam (13 February 2017)

paddi22 said:



			aaaaaaannnnddd back to hero update... your silence is deafening
		
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I take it that the thought of grown adults trolling a young girls facebook page doesn't bother you then?


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## ester (13 February 2017)

Are you actually a politician CM?


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## paddi22 (13 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			I take it that the thought of grown adults trolling a young girls facebook page doesn't bother you then?
		
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yes it does bother me, i hate trolling, on anyones page, at any age. full stop. there's your answer.

Now wheres your answer - can you get a hero update? 

I think your ignoring of the question says it all. Why can't you just say yes or no. If you can't fine, even just say it


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## touchstone (13 February 2017)

A young persons facebook page being trolled is easily solved by closing the page or blocking individuals and has nothing to do with the accusations against this charity.  It is up to those involved to sort out and irrelevant to requests for transparency.

How is Hero doing again?


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## stormox (13 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			I take it that the thought of grown adults trolling a young girls facebook page doesn't bother you then?
		
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I dont think its anything to do with anyone apart from those concerned, and if by trolling you mean writing on someones FB page if a person is on FB they should ensure their privacy settings are such that no one can write on their page. Easily done.


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## Leo Walker (13 February 2017)

Shall I tell everyone how Hero is CM as you clearly wont!


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## stormox (13 February 2017)

I think chocolate moonbeam should, if he/she knows, at the same time explaining why AHAR is so reticent about exactly what happened...... and why she was left so long with feet unattended to at Abbeyfeale.


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## Chocolate moonbeam (13 February 2017)

ester said:



			Are you actually a politician CM?
		
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Why so keen to attempt to take this away from what these supposedly grown adults were doing ester?


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## paddi22 (13 February 2017)

just in case there is anyone on the forum who isn't aware of here, if you skip through this video to half way you can see how much 'care' ahar gave this poor horse
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHu0rT0FLKw

disgusting. but chocolate moonbeam apparently thinks this is fine obviously.


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## paddi22 (13 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			Why so keen to attempt to take this away from what these supposedly grown adults were doing ester?
		
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trolling adults ARE a disgrace. noone here is saying otherwise...

so what where you saying again about hero?


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## Chocolate moonbeam (13 February 2017)

stormox said:



			I dont think its anything to do with anyone apart from those concerned, and if by trolling you mean writing on someones FB page if a person is on FB they should ensure their privacy settings are such that no one can write on their page. Easily done.
		
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It's a community fundraising page.  Why would they want to do that?


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## Chocolate moonbeam (13 February 2017)

paddi22 said:



			trolling adults ARE a disgrace. noone here is saying otherwise...

so what where you saying again about hero?
		
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Well it's only taken you 5 pages to say so.  Well done.


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## stormox (13 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			Why so keen to attempt to take this away from what these supposedly grown adults were doing ester?
		
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Stick to the point of the  original post, chocolate moonbeam. ALL trolls are annoying, whether adult or child. If people dont want them, set the privacy settings so your wall cant be posted on. No one condones trolling, but its a fact of FB life.

Now, what about AHAR not wanting to be impartially investigated?? Seems suspicious to me.....


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## ester (13 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			Why so keen to attempt to take this away from what these supposedly grown adults were doing ester?
		
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I'm not taking it away from you I answered that question as soon as you asked it because I am a polite grown adult. Unlike others who seem very keen to take this away from some of the important animals in question, because frankly if you aren't in it for the animals why is anyone bothering.

No one is condoning that behaviour, it is possible to not expose yourself or make sure your child does not expose themselves to that behaviour. I think we have all voiced our opinions on that now! 

So Hero?


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## paddi22 (13 February 2017)

thanks  
why won't you even comment about hero. It's because you can't. It's because you can;t face up to the fact that your charity used a horse in pain, with a serious disability as a fund raising tool to raise cash by playing on the emotions of kind hearted donators. Then the horse was dumped into an unsuitable field, not treated by a farrier for his condition, left hobbling around.And has now 'disappeared' with no update of what happened to those peoples money. 

And after 5 pages YOU haven't acknowledged it or even acted like you care what happened to that poor poor animal.  Well done you. i hope you are proud. 

There is an onus on a charity to show where peoples money goes. And they should be updating it. why are they not?


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## Chocolate moonbeam (13 February 2017)

stormox said:



			Stick to the point of the  original post, chocolate moonbeam. ALL trolls are annoying, whether adult or child. If people dont want them, set the privacy settings so your wall cant be posted on. No one condones trolling, but its a fact of FB life.
		
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How many more times do you need to hear it is her fundraising page.  A page set up in order to fund raise for animal rescue.

These people went on there just because some of that fundraising has been for Ahar.

The adults who did that are the ones in the wrong here, not the girl, not her parents, but those adults.


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## ester (13 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			Well it's only taken you 5 pages to say so.  Well done.
		
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you need to sort your settings out, most of us are only on page 2! 

So how many pages until you respond to the questions asked of YOU, when everyone here has answered yours?


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## ester (13 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			How many more times do you need to hear it is her fundraising page.  A page set up in order to fund raise for animal rescue.

These people went on there just because some of that fundraising has been for Ahar.

The adults who did that are the ones in the wrong here, not the girl, not her parents, but those adults.
		
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It doesn't matter what the page was there for? we know what the page is for- you said. You can change settings for pages too you know! Some adults messed up, the trolls and her parents, end of story, it happens. 

Now lets think about the animals shall we? Hero?


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## paddi22 (13 February 2017)

yes you are absolutely right - trolling adults are awful. everyone here agrees, you can stop labouring the point now. everyone agrees with you. can we move on?


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## Chocolate moonbeam (13 February 2017)

ester said:



			you need to sort your settings out, most of us are only on page 2! 

So how many pages until you respond to the questions asked of YOU, when everyone here has answered yours?
		
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My settings are fine.


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## ester (13 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			My settings are fine.
		
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Don't make a thing about it being '5 pages!' then 
and my other question, as you love to respond to only half a post-  how many pages until you answer the question asked?


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## stormox (13 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			How many more times do you need to hear it is her fundraising page.  A page set up in order to fund raise for animal rescue.

These people went on there just because some of that fundraising has been for Ahar.

The adults who did that are the ones in the wrong here, not the girl, not her parents, but those adults.
		
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Why not set up a separate thread re trolling then, and stop hi-jacking this one. You have said the same thing over and over again, but haven't answered ANYONE'S  questions.

I have answered ALL your questions you put to me about my knowledge of AHAR - time for you to answer the SAME questions.....


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## Chocolate moonbeam (13 February 2017)

ester said:



			It doesn't matter what the page was there for? we know what the page is for- you said. You can change settings for pages too you know! Some adults messed up, the trolls and her parents, end of story, it happens. 

Now lets think about the animals shall we? Hero?
		
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No, the only people at fault are the trolls.


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## paddi22 (13 February 2017)

to simplify it 

CHOCOLATE MOONBEAM do you have an update on hero

yes or no


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## ester (13 February 2017)

So if I leave my front door open and get burgled that is only the fault of the burglars? I shall let my insurance company know. I definitely have no responsibility for protecting my possessions as an adult does for protecting their children, shame the law disagrees on that.

Again you missed the last half of that post which asked you a question.


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## ester (13 February 2017)

paddi22 said:



			to simplify it 

CHOCOLATE MOONBEAM do you have an update on hero

yes or no
		
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maybe a visual will help? *clutches at straws*


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## touchstone (13 February 2017)

Or you could argue that the ones in the wrong are those adults who are reluctant to disclose what has happened to Hero and show any willingness towards transparency, then the trolling , as awful as it is, would probably never have happened in the first place.   
Also disturbing to read on the facebook page that the charity apparently has no money for hay needed next week!   What sort of help is that for the animals if they can't afford to feed them?   
I'm sorry, but the moe you ignore the requests for information and divert the issue then the more guilty the charity looks.


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## ycbm (13 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			You obviously didn't see the letter from the DAFM outlining just how many visits (no doubt on the back of the anti pages complaints) announced and unannounced that Ahar have had in the past year.  Two in January 2017 alone, yet these people still aren't satisfied.
		
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I saw it. I found it completely confirmed all the fears I had about AHAR. No charity operating properly gets that many visits in such a short time. The fact that anyone felt it necessary to visit that often is utterly damning.


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## Chocolate moonbeam (13 February 2017)

ester said:



			So if I leave my front door open and get burgled that is only the fault of the burglars? I shall let my insurance company know. I definitely have no responsibility for protecting my possessions as an adult does for protecting their children, shame the law disagrees on that.

Again you missed the last half of that post which asked you a question.
		
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You keep on stating that her parents weren't protecting her.  In fact, her parents were very much protecting her during the whole thing as several of the people on here will be well aware since some of them are people who post on the anti-Ahar page.


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## touchstone (13 February 2017)

ycbm said:



			I saw it. I found it completely confirmed all the fears I had about AHAR. No charity operating properly gets that many visits in such a short time. The fact that anyone felt it necessary to visit that often is utterly damning.
		
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Agreed.


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## Chocolate moonbeam (13 February 2017)

ycbm said:



			I saw it. I found it completely confirmed all the fears I had about AHAR. No charity operating properly gets that many visits in such a short time. The fact that anyone felt it necessary to visit that often is utterly damning.
		
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They would if they (the dept) are doing their job and responding to complaints.


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## LD&S (13 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam

i'm shouting as you don't appear to be able to hear, what has happened to hero?


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## stormox (13 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			They would if they (the dept) are doing their job and responding to complaints.
		
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No one is going to complain without a reason. Again, I ask - you felt you had to name me and ask what was my knowledge of AHAR? I ansered ALL your questions. Now your turn- answer ALL your questions, plus "what happenened to Hero after she returned to AHAR from Abbeyfeale?"


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## Chocolate moonbeam (13 February 2017)

stormox said:



			No one is going to complain without a reason. Again, I ask - you felt you had to name me and ask what was my knowledge of AHAR? I ansered ALL your questions. Now your turn- answer ALL your questions, plus "what happenened to Hero after she returned to AHAR from Abbeyfeale?"
		
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I never named you or asked what your knowledge of Ahar is.

And yes, people will complain without reason and when nothing comes of that they will complain again and again.


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## paddi22 (13 February 2017)

it's like living in an alternate reality isn't it. selective hearing.


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## paddi22 (13 February 2017)

honestly chocolate moonbeam you actually make ahar look even worse the way you defend them on here. 

there would be absolutely nothing wrong with saying 'i love ahar, i donate them money and trust them, but i'm not knowledgable enough about the inner dealings of the charity to know what happened to hero' 

that would be an absolutely normal answer. and at least it would be an answer. prentending you don't hear a simple yes or no question people are asking just looks like the charity are trying to hide stuff.


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## ycbm (13 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			They would if they (the dept) are doing their job and responding to complaints.
		
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No, they wouldn't. They would define the complaints as vexatious and stop going if there was no evidence to support them. But as long as people keep reporting things like horses arriving with laminitis so bad that they can't unload them, or active strangles, and as long as no one investigates the allegations of historic deaths, and as long as no-one answers what happened to Hero, and until someone explains where the half a million euros of unaccounted for spending has gone, and as long as they keep buying horses from a slaughterman .....

these allegations will go on and on and on.


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## ycbm (13 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			And yes, people will complain without reason and when nothing comes of that they will complain again and again.
		
Click to expand...

But they don't, do they?  Can you name me another charity that what you are suggesting is happening here has ever happened to?


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## LD&S (13 February 2017)

Talk about a waste of space.

If CM is any indication of the people involved in AHAR that they cannot answer a simple question it's amazing they can manage to look after themselves so we really shouldn't be shocked that they can't look after the animals in their care.

The sooner there is a proper investigation the better.


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## touchstone (13 February 2017)

I'm normally prepared to hear people out and listen to explanations and reasons, but as they aren't forthcoming then I can only assume it's because CM wishes to keep things undercover while trying to constantly change the subject.  It seems that there must be something to hide is the only conclusion that I can draw from such  an approach sadly.


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## stormox (13 February 2017)

gallopingby said:



			Isn't it about time these anti AHAR posts were blocked, there have been a few over the last months/years and they are time wasting.


So to all that are considering signing - have you visited Ireland? 
Been to AHAR? 
Been to ANY animal rescue centre anywhere in the UK or Eire? 
Do you know what the nature of animal rescue is? - not much point in rescuing fat, shiny animals in good condition? You may be surprised to learn that animal rescue centres work hand in hand with other organisations - do you think the local pound would be letting them take animals if they weren't doing a good job? Maybe one of the differences between AHAR and other rescues is that they will do the extra mile and step in where others won't go -  at any time of the day or night. Sadly where there is livestock there will also be dead stock - no getting away from that. 
So....Paddi, Stormox and co maybe you could start your own rescue or divert your energies towards something more productive which would enable AHAR to get on with their work rather than have to spend time and energy responding to your activities, and just in case your thinking of messaging me - something which your group are good at I won't be responding to any messages about this.
		
Click to expand...


My apologies, chocolate moonbeam, it was gallopingby asked.  But it wouldnt hurt you to answer.......1) what involvement, if any, do you have  with AHAR.    2) Do you know what happened to Hero?

I, too, can only infer guilt from your silence and the fact AHAR are not welcoming an inspection with open arms.


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## ester (13 February 2017)

paddi22 said:



			it's like living in an alternate reality isn't it. selective hearing.
		
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It would be funny if there weren't suffering animals involved


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## Leo Walker (13 February 2017)

CM if you dont want to or wont answer I can.


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## Regandal (13 February 2017)

Must be a politician, as surmised earlier. No one else can keep avoiding a question like that!  Unbelievable.


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## hairycob (13 February 2017)

Gosh Chocolate Moonbeam you make AHAR sound awful, so evasive. So tell me about this,Hero everyone keeps,asking about.


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## Wind in the Willows (14 February 2017)

ester said:



			maybe a visual will help? *clutches at straws*






Click to expand...

Brilliant


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## Dave's Mam (14 February 2017)

So, CM, any update on Hero?


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## Wind in the Willows (15 February 2017)

Leo Walker said:



			CM if you dont want to or wont answer I can.
		
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Please do


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## meleeka (15 February 2017)

hairycob said:



			Gosh Chocolate Moonbeam you make AHAR sound awful, so evasive. So tell me about this,Hero everyone keeps,asking about.
		
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My thoughts exactly.
I didn't have an opinion either way on opening this thread, However, far from defending them, Moonbeam has made them sound very dodgy!


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## touchstone (15 February 2017)

You can't defend the indefensible, seeing that pic of the poor dying donkey dragged into a sofa and surrounded by chickens for a money raising photo opportunity shows a complete lack of empathy and compassion for the poor animal.  Disgusting behaviour towards an animal obviously suffering.   
An investigation is urgently needed imo, and if that photo is representative of their treatment of animals then they will never receive support from me and should be brought to account asap.


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## meleeka (15 February 2017)

touchstone said:



			You can't defend the indefensible, seeing that pic of the poor dying donkey dragged into a sofa and surrounded by chickens for a money raising photo opportunity shows a complete lack of empathy and compassion for the poor animal.  Disgusting behaviour towards an animal obviously suffering.   
An investigation is urgently needed imo, and if that photo is representative of their treatment of animals then they will never receive support from me and should be brought to account asap.
		
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Where can I find this story?


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## touchstone (15 February 2017)

https://m.facebook.com/ahar.ie/phot...741849.145876848765350/1073422892677403/?type
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/foru...t-just-me-who-finds-this-wrong&highlight=Ahar
A couple of links here.  If you do a search on ahar there are loads of incidents of inappropriate care.


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## WeeLassie (15 February 2017)

Are you saying AHAR posted those pictures of the sick donkey in order to get funds, then it died and some of the pictures are saying we need funds for this sick donkey foal and it had actually died?

How awful- wouldn't that be fraud?


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## rascal (15 February 2017)

touchstone said:



https://m.facebook.com/ahar.ie/phot...741849.145876848765350/1073422892677403/?type
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/foru...t-just-me-who-finds-this-wrong&highlight=Ahar
A couple of links here.  If you do a search on ahar there are loads of incidents of inappropriate care.
		
Click to expand...



The way that poor donkey was just left to suffer was cruel. It should have been pts before it got to that stage.


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## ester (15 February 2017)

WeeLassie said:



			Are you saying AHAR posted those pictures of the sick donkey in order to get funds, then it died and some of the pictures are saying we need funds for this sick donkey foal and it had actually died?

How awful- wouldn't that be fraud?
		
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Yes, although frankly even if he hadn't have died it was an awful situation to have him in.


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## Dave's Mam (20 February 2017)

Do we have an update on Hero yet?


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## Tyssandi (20 February 2017)

MyOldPony said:



			Please sign the petition if like me and others you would like the extent of the cruelty going on in that place investigated and the mass graves uncovered and investigated.


https://www.change.org/p/minister-o...n-of-the-carcasses-buried?recruiter=674994065

Click to expand...

Done


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## Dobiegirl (21 February 2017)

Dave's Mam said:



			Do we have an update on Hero yet?
		
Click to expand...

No and there is another missing now. Alfie. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10155032881777766&set=o.795034397244586&type=3&theater


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## Leo Walker (21 February 2017)

Hero is dead and has been for quite a while now.


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## ester (21 February 2017)

Well I think we all rather hoped/assumed that was the case. 
How surprising that chocolate moonbeam seemed not to know :rolleyes3:


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## Chocolate moonbeam (21 February 2017)

ester said:



			Well I think we all rather hoped/assumed that was the case. 
How surprising that chocolate moonbeam seemed not to know :rolleyes3:
		
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Oh i did know as did several other people commenting on this thread.

Which begs the question, why demand i answer a question from people who already know the answer?

She died whilst undergoing an operation on her leg to sort out the club foot.


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## ester (21 February 2017)

I didn't know the answer? I don't ask questions I know the answers to that would be silly.

I find it very impolite to ask genuine questions of people, answer questions from them and find they would have been able to tell me the answer but chose to withold it.


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## Chocolate moonbeam (21 February 2017)

ester said:



			I didn't know the answer? I don't ask questions I know the answers to that would be silly.
		
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Leo Walker did and Dobiegirl and quite probably Paddi22 as well.  One of those could have chosen to answer your question, instead they chose to demand i told them what they already knew.


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## ester (21 February 2017)

But I was asking the question, of you, not anyone else.


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## meleeka (21 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			Oh i did know as did several other people commenting on this thread.

Which begs the question, why demand i answer a question from people who already know the answer?

She died whilst undergoing an operation on her leg to sort out the club foot.
		
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Actually I think more than one person asked the question.


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## Chocolate moonbeam (21 February 2017)

ester said:



			But I was asking the question, of you, not anyone else.
		
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Never mind eh?  You know now and you also know that she died undergoing treatment for her condition, something which certain people denied she ever got.


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## ester (21 February 2017)

I do mind
It is rude


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## Chocolate moonbeam (21 February 2017)

ester said:



			I do mind
It is rude
		
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It is also rude of those people who did know to keep demanding i answer their question regarding her whereabouts therefore i would not answer anyone.  Sorry if you don't like that but there it is.

I'm sure you'll get over it.


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## LD&S (21 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			It is also rude of those people who did know to keep demanding i answer their question regarding her whereabouts therefore i would not answer anyone.  Sorry if you don't like that but there it is.

I'm sure you'll get over it.
		
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I didn't know the answer and I asked the question, I was not being rude, you were.

I would like an Alfie update too and again I don't know answer to that either.


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## Chocolate moonbeam (21 February 2017)

LD&S said:



			I didn't know the answer and I asked the question, I was not being rude, you were.

I would like an Alfie update too and again I don't know answer to that either.
		
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It's a forum, not a court of law.


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## Leo Walker (21 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			She died whilst undergoing an operation on her leg to sort out the club foot.
		
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She did not!


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## Chocolate moonbeam (21 February 2017)

Leo Walker said:



			She did not!
		
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She did


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## ycbm (21 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			She did
		
Click to expand...

Was she the little skewbald walking on the front of her pastern?  You can find it if you Google 'hero ahar  pictures'


There isn't an operation in the world that would resolve that problem and it would be completely unethical to try.

I don't believe you.


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## ycbm (21 February 2017)

Won't copy.


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## Tiddlypom (21 February 2017)

Eep. Poor little pony.


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## paddi22 (21 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			Leo Walker did and Dobiegirl and quite probably Paddi22 as well.  One of those could have chosen to answer your question, instead they chose to demand i told them what they already knew.
		
Click to expand...

i actually didn't know. I know people who donated to help this poor horse and i feel sick that their money has been misused. they donated cash for a 'vital op' and then that poor crippled horse was dumped in a field hobbling around.

You have absolutely no transparency or integrity as far as i am concerned chocolate moonbeam, as you can't even be honest and answer a simple yes or no question


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## paddi22 (21 February 2017)

what date was this operation done on? why wasn't it done as soon as the money was raised? why weren't ahar donators kept in the loop of where their money was going?


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## Chocolate moonbeam (21 February 2017)

paddi22 said:



			what date was this operation done on? why wasn't it done as soon as the money was raised? why weren't ahar donators kept in the loop of where their money was going?
		
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The initial post on the Ahar facebook stated it could take up to 18 months for treatment to be completed.  Any donors should have noted that and realised any money they donated for an op might be used later rather than sooner.

Little point in operating on a horse standing on tiptoes as she was when she went into the centre.


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## ester (21 February 2017)

Why would there have been little point operating on a horse standing on tip toes?

Frankly there was little point of operating on a horse that old to resolve a club foot deformity at any point and I don't think it should even have been suggested and that going ahead is a welfare issue in itself.

'18 months for treatment to be completed' would usually start with an op, then the rehab and corrective trimming, I would be interested to know what the medical reasons were for 1) operating, and 2) not operating sooner but I don't hold out much hope for finding out. 

I would also be interested to know if she died during or as a result of the operation, it would be most unusual and very unlucky to lose a horse under anaesthetic these days. I don't imagine I will get any answers to that either.


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## paddi22 (21 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			The initial post on the Ahar facebook stated it could take up to 18 months for treatment to be completed.  Any donors should have noted that and realised any money they donated for an op might be used later rather than sooner.

Little point in operating on a horse standing on tiptoes as she was when she went into the centre.
		
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that is absolute rubbish and makes no sense at all. 18 months for treatment was from the op on. not 18 months of the horse being dumped in a field without a farrier looking at it, walking round crippled. wheres the benefit to the horse of that, it actually increased its pain. ahar increased it's suffering.

18 months is from op on, with maybe a few weeks of preparatory stuff at the most. you are making no sense.


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## stormox (21 February 2017)

ycbm said:



			There isn't an operation in the world that would resolve that problem and it would be completely unethical to try.

I don't believe you.
		
Click to expand...

I believe that as Hero wasnt treated with remedial farriery and splints  and/or tendon desmotomy as a foal, it was too late to do anything after she got to AHAR. She should either have been put down, or her life managed so she was as comfortable as possible. Easily accessible food, regular farriery etc.
She got neither.

I heard ( and this may be right or wrong but I do know the local vets) that Hero was meant to go to Cork for an operation. The AHAR manger couldnt, or wouldnt take her so she went to a local vets and died whilst in their care.

So, chocolate moonbeam, if this didnt happen, what did?


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## Chocolate moonbeam (21 February 2017)

What good would releasing her tendon have done with hoofs in that shape?


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## Chocolate moonbeam (21 February 2017)

stormox said:



			I believe that as Hero wasnt treated with remedial farriery and splints  and/or tendon desmotomy as a foal, it was too late to do anything after she got to AHAR. She should either have been put down, or her life managed so she was as comfortable as possible. Easily accessible food, regular farriery etc.
She got neither.

I heard ( and this may be right or wrong but I do know the local vets) that Hero was meant to go to Cork for an operation. The AHAR manger couldnt, or wouldnt take her so she went to a local vets and died whilst in their care.

So, chocolate moonbeam, if this didnt happen, what did?
		
Click to expand...

Yes of course you heard that since it was written on a page you frequent.


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## paddi22 (21 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:










What good would releasing her tendon have done with hoofs in that shape?
		
Click to expand...

releasing her tendons would not have done any good at any stage or in any situation. that horse was far beyond remedial surgery and it was the wrong call to operate. 

i feel like im living in an alternate universe as it's just so blatantly odd, but what good would it have been 'releasing her tendons' in the pic above that Tiddlypom  posted, where she is hobbling in a field? because thats how she was kept, not in the pic you show


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## paddi22 (21 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			Yes of course you heard that since it was written on a page you frequent.
		
Click to expand...

so fill us in with the real story, from the page YOU frequent. because that page should have been updating donators. and it didn't. and people who donated found the pony had been dumped hobbling in a  field. that is the reality. so you update us, with what your page says about it.


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## ester (21 February 2017)

It doesn't take 18 months to alter hoof shape even if that were necessary though I still don't believe it was, but then I believe operating pointless anyway and have not found a single farriery or veterinary professional that thinks it was a good idea either.


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## paddi22 (21 February 2017)

ahar has turned into the horse version of scientology. it's like living in some alternate universe where facts and logic don't count.


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## Chocolate moonbeam (21 February 2017)

paddi22 said:



			releasing her tendons would not have done any good at any stage or in any situation. that horse was far beyond remedial surgery and it was the wrong call to operate. 

i feel like im living in an alternate universe as it's just so blatantly odd, but what good would it have been 'releasing her tendons' in the pic above that Tiddlypom  posted, where she is hobbling in a field? because thats how she was kept, not in the pic you show
		
Click to expand...

The picture i put up was taken when she first entered Ahar, that is what her feet were like when she was first rescued.  Are you suggesting they just left her like that and didn't at least give her a chance if her problem could be resolved to the point she could live on even as a companion pony.

Well shame on you if you just give up on animals at the first sign of a problem.


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## Chocolate moonbeam (21 February 2017)

ester said:



			It doesn't take 18 months to alter hoof shape even if that were necessary though I still don't believe it was, but then I believe operating pointless anyway and have not found a single farriery or veterinary professional that thinks it was a good idea either.
		
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There are plenty of resources on the net describing the operation which can be performed.


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## ester (21 February 2017)

I don't think anyone suggested you leave a pony like that, that doesn't automatically mean that operating was appropriate either.


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## ester (21 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			There are plenty of resources on the net describing the operation which can be performed.
		
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Sorry why would I need them? I know full well what sort of ops we are talking about.


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## paddi22 (21 February 2017)

she was never going to have a decent quality of life.

And for the record, you can get off your high horse again saying i give up at the first sign of a problem. We get rescues in here and do a lot of work on them. since you probably assume im lying, i can direct you to a previous post where i got literally a 26 year old skeleton pony in who hadn't been able to move her mouth for about 10/15 years and had lost the muscles to do so. I spend a fortune on dental work, vets, physio and massaged her jaw about 20 times a day for nearly a month to aid her learning to move it again. on top of specialised food that had to be fed in a slop every few hours. then i did physio as her neck and back was locked due to the dental pain. here's the proof of when i was getting suggestions after she recovered. http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/foru...t-to-do-with-old-rescue-pony-tack-suggestions

so you can sit down with your accusations of giving up on ponies.  but i can tell you 100% that some aren't savable and you do more harm that good. i don't know how you can look at the picture tiddelpom posted and not feel sick and guilty. that horse should never have been made to suffer so much.


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## Chocolate moonbeam (21 February 2017)

ester said:



			I don't think anyone suggested you leave a pony like that, that doesn't automatically mean that operating was appropriate either.
		
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Take that up with the vet who obviously decided it was appropriate.


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## paddi22 (21 February 2017)

and who obviously made the wrong call since the pony died.


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## Chocolate moonbeam (21 February 2017)

paddi22 said:



			she was never going to have a decent quality of life.
		
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You have absolutely no way of knowing whether she would or wouldn't.

You have your opinion and you are entitled to it, but that doesn't mean everyone has to agree with it.


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## paddi22 (21 February 2017)

i think you could show tiddelpom's picure to 100 horse loves and 100 would say thats not a good quality of life. do YOU consider that a good quality of life?


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## paddi22 (21 February 2017)




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## paddi22 (21 February 2017)

i'd post the video again of the poor horse trying to move but i just feel sick watching it. if you think thats a good quality of life then you seriously need to reconsider your horsecare levels


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## ester (21 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			You have absolutely no way of knowing whether she would or wouldn't.

You have your opinion and you are entitled to it, but that doesn't mean everyone has to agree with it.
		
Click to expand...

Neither will you or anyone else given that she is dead anyway as a result of the decisions made for her by AHAR....

What a shame she had to suffer for so much longer than necessary before that decision was made, even if hoof changes were needed pre surgery as you say... which is not backed up by the pictures of her down that treatment timeline.


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## respectedpony driver (21 February 2017)

Here we go again.Defra have been to inspect this place and found nothing to be concerned about.This charity does a lot of rescues in a country that doesn't  seem to enforce animal welfare laws.If you are so concerned why don't you go and help them instead of trying to shut them down.


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## Chocolate moonbeam (21 February 2017)

paddi22 said:



			i think you could show tiddelpom's picure to 100 horse loves and 100 would say thats not a good quality of life. do YOU consider that a good quality of life?
		
Click to expand...

Tell me Paddi22, do you think that children who have had surgery to correct a club foot can't have a good quality of life afterwards?


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## Chocolate moonbeam (21 February 2017)

ester said:



			Neither will you or anyone else given that she is dead anyway as a result of the decisions made for her by AHAR....
		
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Do you think Ahar forced the vet to perform the surgery or something?


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## ester (21 February 2017)

Well if you are going to start comparing the structure of human and horses you are even more bonkers than I thought!


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## paddi22 (21 February 2017)

i don't think those children would have been dumped in a field before hand without a doctor looking at them. unless ahar gets into rescuing children

different species, not comparable in any way


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## Chocolate moonbeam (21 February 2017)

ester said:



			Well if you are going to start comparing the structure of human and horses you are even more bonkers than I thought!
		
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Who mentioned comparing the structures of the two species, i'm talking about deformities and whether it's worth trying to correct them or not.


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## ester (21 February 2017)

Oh yes, of course you were. 
It is worth correcting them, as babies.


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## paddi22 (21 February 2017)

but you are comparing two completely different species. it's a bonkers logic. that horse should have been pts


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## Chocolate moonbeam (21 February 2017)

ester said:



			Oh yes, of course you were. 
It is worth correcting them, as babies.
		
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Take that up with whoever kept Hero in that condition prior to her being rescued by Ahar.


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## ester (21 February 2017)

I seem to be taking a lot of things up with a lot of people I don't know, do I have some special communication power that I don't know about. 

You asked a question, I answered it factually, cos I am polite see, I am aware that is a concept that seems to go completely over your head.


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## paddi22 (21 February 2017)

eh tiddleypoms picture is from when ahar HAD her! after she went into their 'care'.   The original owner should have pts that horse and was at fault. ahar should have pts that horse and they were at fault.

instead they took it in, raised a fortune for it, dumped it, and then it died after disappearing. 

sordid and sad. poor horse


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## paddi22 (21 February 2017)

and we shouldn't have to be taking anything up with anyone. I have actually tried to contact ahar to get answers myself and have been deleted and ignored. and before you jump on at how i was trolling my exact messages were 'any update on hero please?' so hardly offensive. but was deleted anyway.

so we have no way of finding information - as its all kept hidden and secret. no transparency, no honesty,


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## Chocolate moonbeam (21 February 2017)

ester said:



			I seem to be taking a lot of things up with a lot of people I don't know, do I have some special communication power that I don't know about. 

You asked a question, I answered it factually, cos I am polite see, I am aware that is a concept that seems to go completely over your head.
		
Click to expand...

Look, that is how the horse came into Ahar, she was 10 years old or thereabouts.  Her condition on arrival at Ahar is not the fault of Ahar it is the fault of whoever had her previously and allowed her condition to get like that.

Ahar gave her a chance, unfortunately she died whilst undergoing an operation, that is one of the risks of surgery.

If you have an issue that her condition was not corrected at an earlier time then neither Ahar or myself are the people to berate here.


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## paddi22 (21 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			Look, that is how the horse came into Ahar, she was 10 years old or thereabouts.  Her condition on arrival at Ahar is not the fault of Ahar it is the fault of whoever had her previously and allowed her condition to get like that.

Ahar gave her a chance, unfortunately she died whilst undergoing an operation, that is one of the risks of surgery.

If you have an issue that her condition was not corrected at an earlier time then neither Ahar or myself are the people to berate here.
		
Click to expand...

No ahar are not responsible for her condition before she arrived of course. but once she was there, she did not receive regular, correct farrier treatment, and then she was proven to be dumped in a field, absolutely crippled. That IS Ahars fault. and i have no issue berating them as they did not provide adequate farrier care for that horse


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## paddi22 (21 February 2017)

that tiddleypom pic is from when she was IN ahar, and it is indisputable  photographic evidence that contradicts anything you say about ahar providing adequate care for that horse


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## ester (21 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			Look, that is how the horse came into Ahar, she was 10 years old or thereabouts.  Her condition on arrival at Ahar is not the fault of Ahar it is the fault of whoever had her previously and allowed her condition to get like that.

Ahar gave her a chance, unfortunately she died whilst undergoing an operation, that is one of the risks of surgery.

If you have an issue that her condition was not corrected at an earlier time then neither Ahar or myself are the people to berate here.
		
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Err, AHAR had her for a long amount of time (a year there or thereabouts) before they did anything as shown by the photo and video evidence. Well they trimmed and shod her once, then left her to get on with it that is why I am berating AHAR, that isn't in anyway acceptable, my stance hasn't changed between threads.

The point about her age and letting her be in that condition in the first place is only with regards to likely outcomes of any surgery.


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## Chocolate moonbeam (21 February 2017)

ester said:



			Err, AHAR had her for a long amount of time (a year there or thereabouts) before they did anything as shown by the photo and video evidence. Well they trimmed and shod her once, then left her to get on with it that is why I am berating AHAR, that isn't in anyway acceptable, my stance hasn't changed between threads.

The point about her age and letting her be in that condition in the first place is only with regards to likely outcomes of any surgery.
		
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So given the state of her hooves when she arrived, what would you suggest was done to get a more natural hoof shape?


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## paddi22 (21 February 2017)

i think a lot of posters here don't think anything should have been done to get a more natural hoof shape, as due to the serious deformity it was never going to happen.  

I know what posters here WOULDN't do is dump it in a field and not have a farrier see it for 8 months or so. which is what ahar did.


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## ester (21 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			So given the state of her hooves when she arrived, what would you suggest was done to get a more natural hoof shape?
		
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The farrier seemed to do an excellent job though it would have been good to see some video too. I don't understand why that was not continued with if there was such a determination to try something, and the pictures from a year down the line show that hoofcare had been severely lacking on the 'good' hoof let alone the problem one.


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## stormox (21 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			Yes of course you heard that since it was written on a page you frequent.
		
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I frequent a lot of the net to do with local issues. Including AHARs own page. However I was told about Hero, I didnt read it. But I see from your latest post the 'gossip' if you want to call it that, was correct!



			
				 unfortunately she died while undergoing an operation [QUOTE said:
			
		


			At least we know what happened now.
		
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## Chocolate moonbeam (21 February 2017)

ester said:



			The farrier seemed to do an excellent job though it would have been good to see some video too. I don't understand why that was not continued with if there was such a determination to try something.
		
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As i understand it, she was treated initially with remedial farriery however as you can see from the photo i put up there really was so little hoof to work with so she was put out to grass for a while to allow some hoof growth so that when she had her operation they had some hoof to work with in terms of corrective trimming and shoeing in the longer term.

The operation went ahead but as with all operations there is a risk and she died.


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## paddi22 (21 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			As i understand it, she was treated initially with remedial farriery however as you can see from the photo i put up there really was so little hoof to work with so she was put out to grass for a while to allow some hoof growth so that when she had her operation they had some hoof to work with in terms of corrective trimming and shoeing in the longer term.

The operation went ahead but as with all operations there is a risk and she died.
		
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None of that would be advised by a good vet. I know that's the offical version of the story that you have been fed, but when you step back and break down the real veterinary and farrier aspects of it, none of it holds up as good horsecare practice at any stage. I appreciate that that is the story you swallowed and believed though.


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## paddi22 (21 February 2017)




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## Chocolate moonbeam (21 February 2017)

paddi22 said:



			None of that would be advised by a good vet. I know that's the offical version of the story that you have been fed, but when you step back and break down the real veterinary and farrier aspects of it, none of it holds up as good horsecare practice at any stage. I appreciate that that is the story you swallowed and believed though.
		
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You're entitled to your opinion.


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## paddi22 (21 February 2017)

her hooves are completely overgrown and neglected in this photo. this is actual proof that a correct farrier care system was not in place. no farrier or vet would leave a horse like this. it completely disproves everything you say, so the story you have been sold is factually incoprrect

can you look at that photo and say thats a horse receiving remedial farrier care, casue i can't. look at the other hoof, its like a slipper.


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## Chocolate moonbeam (21 February 2017)

paddi22 said:










her hooves are completely overgrown and neglected in this photo. this is actual proof that a correct farrier care system was not in place. no farrier or vet would leave a horse like this. it completely disproves everything you say, so the story you have been sold is factually incoprrect

can you look at that photo and say thats a horse receiving remedial farrier care, casue i can't. look at the other hoof, its like a slipper.

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But just look at her hind hooves, they aren't overgrown, hence she must have seen a farrier.


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## paddi22 (21 February 2017)

theres no way a farrier looked at that horse and thought it was ok. not a hope. im not a hoof expert by any means but i would hazrd a guess they wore down unequally due to more pressure being loaded on the hinds. i could be completely wrong tho. 

but i refuse to believe any farrier would leave a horse in that condition, if they did, they should be disbarred


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## Chocolate moonbeam (21 February 2017)

paddi22 said:



			theres no way a farrier looked at that horse and thought it was ok. not a hope. im not a hoof expert by any means but i would hazrd a guess they wore down unequally due to more pressure being loaded on the hinds. i could be completely wrong tho. 

but i refuse to believe any farrier would leave a horse in that condition, if they did, they should be disbarred
		
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Like i said, you're entitled to your opinion.


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## ester (21 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			a while to allow some hoof growth
		
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A year is definitely more than a while to allow some hoof growth, as I said the 'good hoof' tells as much of a story as the bad one on that.


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## ester (21 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			But just look at her hind hooves, they aren't overgrown, hence she must have seen a farrier.
		
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Are you really that unknowledgeable about hooves?


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## Chocolate moonbeam (21 February 2017)

ester said:



			Are you really that unknowledgeable about hooves?
		
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Are you trying to suggest that if as is claimed she hadn't seen a farrier for a year that her hinds wouldn't have grown in that time too?


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## WeeLassie (21 February 2017)

At least we need no longer wonder what happened to the poor unfortunate beastie. So she died having an operation on her legs to lengthen the tendons as far as I can make out from this thread. Thank you chocolatemoonbeam for clarifying.
If some kind people hadnt discovered her (and others) living on this neglected golfcourse, would she ever have had the operation? Or would she have stayed there for as long as she remained undiscovered?
It seems to me AHAR need to be a lot more honest to their subscribers what is happening to the animals they use as 'donation getters'...... why, for example, chocolate moonbeam, did it take 14 or 15 pages on this thread for you to say what happened? (I take it you ARE an administrator of AHAR, as you seem to be unnaturally defensive of them ). It is no crime to work for or support a charity, so I see no reason for you to hide it. Or for AHAR to hide anything if they are genuine.


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## Chocolate moonbeam (21 February 2017)

WeeLassie said:



			At least we need no longer wonder what happened to the poor unfortunate beastie. So she died having an operation on her legs to lengthen the tendons as far as I can make out from this thread. Thank you chocolatemoonbeam for clarifying.
If some kind people hadnt discovered her (and others) living on this neglected golfcourse, would she ever have had the operation? Or would she have stayed there for as long as she remained undiscovered?
It seems to me AHAR need to be a lot more honest to their subscribers what is happening to the animals they use as 'donation getters'...... why, for example, chocolate moonbeam, did it take 14 or 15 pages on this thread for you to say what happened? (I take it you ARE an administrator of AHAR, as you seem to be unnaturally defensive of them ).
		
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Ahar knew exactly where she was, hence she wasn't hidden or dumped or anything else so there was no big discovery to make and yes, i believe the operation was always planned if all else failed.


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## paddi22 (21 February 2017)

so why wouldn't you say it when first asked? why did it take so long?


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## ester (21 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			Are you trying to suggest that if as is claimed she hadn't seen a farrier for a year that her hinds wouldn't have grown in that time too?
		
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I am not trying to suggest anything beyond your incomprehension on how unshod hooves work, grow and wear. Both generally on a hind end versus front end (they are not the same) even on a standard well cared for horse) and even more so on a horse with compromised front end.


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## paddi22 (21 February 2017)

i know ahar knew where she was, but do you think any donations would have come in if people had known the state she was in?


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## Chocolate moonbeam (21 February 2017)

ester said:



			I am not trying to suggest anything beyond your incomprehension on how unshod hooves work, grow and wear. Both generally on a hind end versus front end (they are not the same) even on a standard well cared for horse) and even more so on a horse with compromised front end.
		
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Those hind hoofs would still need trimming.


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## Chocolate moonbeam (21 February 2017)

paddi22 said:



			i know ahar knew where she was, but do you think any donations would have come in if people had known the state she was in?
		
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To be honest, you lot couldn't have made a bigger fuss about it if you'd found Shergar than you did making this 'tremendous discovery about a so called hidden horse' who actually wasn't hidden at all but was safely grazing on some rented land away from the main Ahar centre.


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## stormox (21 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			Those hind hoofs would still need trimming.
		
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Not necessarily. Because the hind feet are more 'pointed' in shape the toes tend to break quicker than the fronts. Also if she had seen a farrier, why didnt he trim the off fore? Unless she was unable to stand on the near fore while he did it, in which case she should have been brought back to AHAR and done properly, presumably with a sling.


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## ester (21 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			Those hind hoofs would still need trimming.
		
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Yeah, that is my point about you not understanding.


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## paddi22 (21 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			To be honest, you lot couldn't have made a bigger fuss about it if you'd found Shergar than you did making this 'tremendous discovery about a so called hidden horse' who actually wasn't hidden at all but was safely grazing on some rented land away from the main Ahar centre.
		
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because people asked where the horse was, were told it was with a particular foster home, and then suddenly its found crippled somewhere else with overgrown hooves and crippled. I DO think thats worth making a fuss over, but then again I actually care about horses and their welfare. You seem not to. I had repeatedly and politely asked about that horses welfare for months on the ahar site and received no reply. so in my view, it WAS hidden away from public view


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## ycbm (21 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			Tell me Paddi22, do you think that children who have had surgery to correct a club foot can't have a good quality of life afterwards?
		
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Stupid question  

A child can have a fabulous quality of life permanently on wheels. A horse can't.


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## Chocolate moonbeam (21 February 2017)

ycbm said:



			Stupid question  

A child can have a fabulous quality of life permanently on wheels. A horse can't.
		
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Now who is comparing humans with equines.


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## Chocolate moonbeam (21 February 2017)

paddi22 said:



			because people asked where the horse was, were told it was with a particular foster home, and then suddenly its found crippled somewhere else with overgrown hooves and crippled. I DO think thats worth making a fuss over, but then again I actually care about horses and their welfare. You seem not to. I had repeatedly and politely asked about that horses welfare for months on the ahar site and received no reply. so in my view, it WAS hidden away from public view
		
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Oh poor Paddi22, left out of the loop again where Ahar animals are concerned


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## paddi22 (21 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			Now who is comparing humans with equines.
		
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this is like the twilight zone. 

you had suggested it originally yourself..


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## paddi22 (21 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			Oh poor Paddi22, left out of the loop again where Ahar animals are concerned 

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yep poor me. i was completely left out of the loop. a friend donated to them and wondered why they hadn't seen updates, and why i tried to follow it up i was left out of the loop. 

And generally, decent normal charities, don't keep people out of the loop about their rescues. in fact, most are delighted to show their progress. but not ahar.


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## stormox (21 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			To be honest, you lot couldn't have made a bigger fuss about it if you'd found Shergar than you did making this 'tremendous discovery about a so called hidden horse' who actually wasn't hidden at all but was safely grazing on some rented land away from the main Ahar centre.
		
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I dont actually think the horse was 'hidden' - more 'out of sight, out of mind' ...... But it was VERY quickly moved back to AHAR and operated on when her whereabouts was discovered. And do you not agree, chocolate moonbeam, that the horses discovered with her- Couer and the emaciated chestnut with the big knee, were in an absolutely awful condition and certainly didnt need to be turned out onto poor grazing.
Ahar seemed to be 'in denial' that they had these horses, because plenty of donators to them asked where they were, and no updates were forthcoming.


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## ycbm (21 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			Now who is comparing humans with equines.
		
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Are you actually all there?  I answered YOUR question.


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## Chocolate moonbeam (21 February 2017)

stormox said:



			I dont actually think the horse was 'hidden' - more 'out of sight, out of mind' ...... But it was VERY quickly moved back to AHAR and operated on when her whereabouts was discovered. And do you not agree, chocolate moonbeam, that the horses discovered with her- Couer and the emaciated chestnut with the big knee, were in an absolutely awful condition and certainly didnt need to be turned out onto poor grazing.
Ahar seemed to be 'in denial' that they had these horses, because plenty of donators to them asked where they were, and no updates were forthcoming.
		
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Of course it isn't possible that hero was always going to be moved back when she was, is it?


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## MyOldPony (21 February 2017)

And this exactly the reason why I posted the petition.
Yet another animal "saved" by AHAR who rushed to its aid, raked in hundreds in a shocking story of abuse. Then the animal disappears out of sight once it's served it's purpose of being a "headline cashcow" only to rot and go back to or worse of a condition it was "saved" from and then its onto the next glory seeking money maker. 
AHAR is a business it should be called "cash for cruelty". We will show you cruelty and you give us cash. But don't ask for updates PLEASE  &#128521;


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## Chocolate moonbeam (21 February 2017)

MyOldPony said:



			And this exactly the reason why I posted the petition.
Yet another animal "saved" by AHAR who rushed to its aid, raked in hundreds in a shocking story of abuse. Then the animal disappears out of sight once it's served it's purpose of being a "headline cashcow" only to rot and go back to or worse of a condition it was "saved" from and then its onto the next glory seeking money maker. 
AHAR is a business it should be called "cash for cruelty". We will show you cruelty and you give us cash. But don't ask for updates PLEASE  &#65533;&#65533;
		
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Don't be so overdramatic.

And Ahar is a charity, not a business.


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## paddi22 (21 February 2017)

i'd say it's a fairly accurate representation.

that poor dying donkey pic was disgusting. wrapped in a bloody duvet in front of a fire with animals annoying it. not an ounce of empathy for what the animal was going through and the conditions it needed to be in. All done to tug at the heart strings and raise cash. poor, poor animal.  if you think that is acceptable chocolate moonbeam, then you have no idea about animal welfare.


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## ycbm (21 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			And Ahar is a charity, not a business.
		
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Charities are businesses which operate for the benefit of the charitable purpose defined in its charter.

In AHAR's case who it is benefiting exactly is yet to be proved.  We are still waiting for the production of accounts to show where half a million Euros of donations have actually been spent and a balance sheet showing which assets paid for by donor money are actually owned by the charity and which by private individuals or other organisations.   Both demanded recently by the charity commission, I believe.


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## Chocolate moonbeam (21 February 2017)

ycbm said:



			Yet to be proved.  We are still waiting for the production of accounts to show where half a million Euros of donations have actually been spent and a balance sheet showing which assets paid for by donor money are actually owned by the charity and which by private individuals or other organisations.   Both demanded recently by the charity commission, I believe.
		
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As you are well aware, the CRA sanction time is not yet up.  Whether you get to know these details will be up to them, Ahar do not have to put up any more financial information than what is required by the CRA.


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## ycbm (21 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			As you are well aware, the CRA sanction time is not yet up.  Whether you get to know these details will be up to them, Ahar do not have to put up any more financial information than what is required by the CRA.
		
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No it won't be up to them. Charity accounts are public and can be scrutinised by anyone. 

No, the time is not yet up. I am awaiting with interest what happens when it is.


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## Chocolate moonbeam (21 February 2017)

ycbm said:



			No it won't be up to them. Charity accounts are public and can be scrutinised by anyone. 

No, the time is not yet up. I am awaiting with interest what happens when it is.
		
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Then go and scrutinise them.


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## paddi22 (21 February 2017)

oh good suggestion, i'd say people will


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## ycbm (21 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			Then go and scrutinise them then.
		
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Thank you. I will. I am particularly interested in finding out who owns all the facilities, which must by now be worth a few hundred thousand. And then who spent the half million euros on what. I doubt we we'll ever find that out but since AHAR have been instructed to produce proper accounts drawn up by a properly qualified person in future, at least it should be a little clearer in a year's time what is happening to the donations.

Then all we will need to worry about is the ethics of a charity paying a meat man for horses, buying puppies on the open market, and abusing animals in the course of fund raising.


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## ycbm (21 February 2017)

paddi22 said:



			oh good suggestion, i'd say people will
		
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No more than a couple of thousands, I reckon


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## Chocolate moonbeam (21 February 2017)

paddi22 said:



			oh good suggestion, i'd say people will
		
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Off you trot then.


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## Chocolate moonbeam (21 February 2017)

ycbm said:



			Thank you. I will. I am particularly interested in finding out who owns all the facilities, which must by now be worth a few hundred thousand. And then who spent the half million euros on what. I doubt we we'll ever find that out but since AHAR have been instructed to produce proper accounts drawn up by a properly qualified person in future, at least it should be a little clearer in a year's time what is happening to the donations.

Then all we will need to worry about is the ethics of a charity paying a meat man for horses, buying puppies on the open market, and abusing animals in the course of fund raising.
		
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Ah right, now we are getting to the nitty gritty.

Why do you care what the facilities are now worth?


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## ycbm (21 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			Why do you care what the facilities are now worth?
		
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You are coming across as more and more dim, I'm afraid 

Because if donor money bought them and they are owned by an individual or company and not by AHAR, them a massive fraud would have been perpetrated. A balance sheet has not been produced, but has now been demanded by the CRA, so at the moment there is no way of knowing whether donor funds have been used to substantially increase the value of a privately held property.


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## paddi22 (21 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			Off you trot then.
		
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i might even canter


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## ycbm (21 February 2017)

paddi22 said:



			i might even canter
		
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......


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## Chocolate moonbeam (21 February 2017)

ycbm said:



			You are coming across as more and more dim, I'm afraid 

Because if donor money bought them and they are owned by an individual or company and not by AHAR, them a massive fraud would have been perpetrated. A balance sheet has not been produced, but has now been demanded by the CRA, so at the moment there is no way of knowing whether donor funds have been used to substantially increase the value of a privately held property.
		
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Ahar last filed accounts are on the CRA website.

I think you know full well the sanctions related to keeping the books in a proper manner and that there was no suggestion of misappropriation of funds.


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## ycbm (21 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			Ahar last filed accounts are on the CRA website.

I think you know full well the sanctions related to keeping the books in a proper manner and that there was no suggestion of misappropriation of funds.
		
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Those would be the accounts that the CRA say are completely inadequate, wouldn't they?  

AHAR have been told to account for half a million euros of spending which are unaccounted for. 

AHAR have been told to employ a properly qualified person to produce proper accounts and a full balance sheet.


Do we have to go through all this again? We did it ad nauseam on another thread last month


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## stormox (21 February 2017)

ycbm said:



			Because if donor money bought them and they are owned by an individual or company and not by AHAR, them a massive fraud would have been perpetrated. A balance sheet has not been produced, but has now been demanded by the CRA, so at the moment there is no way of knowing whether donor funds have been used to substantially increase the value of a privately held property.
		
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As far as I can see, the property hasnt changed much since it was an equestrian centre apart from both arenas now being unusable for riding and the whole place looking shabbier. I do not know who actually owns it, or who owns the managers house just up the road.


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## Chocolate moonbeam (21 February 2017)

ycbm said:



			AHAR have been told to account for half a million euros of spending which are unaccounted for. 

AHAR have been told to employ a properly qualified person to produce proper accounts and a full balance sheet.


Do we have to go through all this again? We did it ad nauseam on another thread last month 

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			The notice, which was accepted by the organisation on the 16th January 2017, requires AHAR to:

Assign the responsibility of keeping proper books of account to a person(s) with the appropriate skills and experience.

Introduce periodic financial reporting setting out the income and expenditure (including the nature of that income and expenditure) and the assets and liabilities of the charity.

Ensure all financial reports are scrutinised by the charity trustees under a standing agenda item &#8211; &#8216;financial status of the charity&#8217; during regular management committee meetings.
		
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http://charitiesregulator.ie/en/CRA/Pages/WP17000001

Umm, where have they been asked to account for a missing half million?

You lot do have a big habit of making things up to suit yourselves you know.


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## ycbm (21 February 2017)

I find it astonishing that you produce that list, again, as some sort of DEFENSE of AHAR. It is completely shameful that such an instruction needs to be given to any organisation taking so much public money.

You know as well as I do that the instructions above were given because it is known that there is half a million of expenditure unaccounted for. It may be too late to find out where that went, they want to make sure it never happens again.


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## Chocolate moonbeam (21 February 2017)

ycbm said:



			I find it astonishing that you produce that list, again, as some sort of DEFENSE of AHAR. It is completely shameful that such an instruction needs to be given to any organisation taking so much public money.

You know as well as I do that the instructions above were given because it is known that there is half a million of expenditure unaccounted for. It may be too late to find out where that went, they want to make sure it never happens again.
		
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I produced the list because you seem intent on adding items to it that just are not there. Ergo, you are making it up to suit your agenda.


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## ycbm (21 February 2017)

stormox said:



			As far as I can see, the property hasnt changed much since it was an equestrian centre apart from both arenas now being unusable for riding and the whole place looking shabbier. I do not know who actually owns it, or who owns the managers house just up the road.
		
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I think that's the CRA point, stormox, no-one knows who owns what. Though it doesn't sound like much has been spent on maintaining or improving it all, if the donations have been paying a mortgage but it's owned by a private individual then there would still be a big fraud going on.


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## ycbm (21 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			I produced the list because you seem intent on adding items to it that just are not there. Ergo, you are making it up to suit your agenda.
		
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I don't have an agenda. I'm not a donor and never will be. I wouldn't take an animal from them if you paid me, I value the ones I already have here already too much to risk them. You clearly have a very close connection though. Care to tell us what it is?


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## Chocolate moonbeam (21 February 2017)

ycbm said:



			I don't have an agenda. I'm not a donor and never will be. I wouldn't take an animal from them if you paid me, I value the ones I already have here already too much to risk them. You clearly have a very close connection though. Care to tell us what it is?
		
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Whether i have an affiliation with Ahar or not is none of your business


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## stormox (21 February 2017)

ycbm said:



			I think that's the CRA point, stormox, no-one knows who owns what. Though it doesn't sound like much has been spent on maintaining or improving it all, if the donations have been paying a mortgage but it's owned by a private individual then there would still be a big fraud going on.
		
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As far as I can remember (I knew the previous owners) it was bought outright with a donation mainly from one individual. It was then put in trust, with AHAR the sole user. But who or what the trust is, no one seemes to know.


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## ycbm (21 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			Whether i have an affiliation with Ahar or not is none of your business 

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I'll take that  as a yes that you are affiliated to them, then, otherwise you would just have said you weren't.


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## Chocolate moonbeam (21 February 2017)

stormox said:



			As far as I can remember (I knew the previous owners) it was bought outright with a donation mainly from one individual. It was then put in trust, with AHAR the sole user. But who or what the trust is, no one seemes to know.
		
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Perhaps that information is on a need to know basis with you not needing to know.


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## ycbm (21 February 2017)

stormox said:



			As far as I can remember (I knew the previous owners) it was bought outright with a donation mainly from one individual. It was then put in trust, with AHAR the sole user. But who or what the trust is, no one seemes to know.
		
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Quite possibly all above board with lousy record keeping then.  What a shame they can't just cut out the buying of animals and concentrate on saving the abused, abandoned and animals in need of homes. Heaven knows there are enough of them


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## paddi22 (21 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			Perhaps that information is on a need to know basis with you not needing to know.
		
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yeah but the thing is as an entity that accepts public money people have the right to know. and rightly so


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## Chocolate moonbeam (21 February 2017)

paddi22 said:



			yeah but the thing is as an entity that accepts public money people have the right to know. and rightly so
		
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Not if it was stipulated the information wasn't released publicly they don't.


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## stormox (21 February 2017)

ycbm said:



			Quite possibly all above board with lousy record keeping then.(
		
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It would be nice to know who actually OWNED the place though, the manager seems to think she does, but that isnt the case. As far as I know, she fell out with the main donor a while back.


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## ester (21 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			I produced the list because you seem intent on adding items to it that just are not there. Ergo, you are making it up to suit your agenda.
		
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Oh the irony, at least it is just to suit 'agendas' (though I am not sure anyone has one) not to gather masses of donation money


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## Chocolate moonbeam (21 February 2017)

ester said:



			Oh the irony, at least it is just to suit agendas not to gather masses of donation money 






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Why does a charity raising money for the upkeep and veterinary care of animals in the rescue bother you so much.

I don't think I'll ever figure out why you seem to resent this.


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## ester (21 February 2017)

Because there are concerns time and time again over the upkeep and veterinary care of said animals. And never any answers to perfectly legitimate questions about those animals. 
And I don't agree with purchasing animals and pretending it is 'rescue' particularly when as said earlier by another poster there are plenty in genuine need out there.

I don't think it is particularly difficult to figure out, but then I don't think working out why a pony's hind feet would look better than the front is particularly tricky either but then some seem to find that difficult too.


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## Chocolate moonbeam (21 February 2017)

ester said:



			Because there are concerns time and time again over the upkeep and veterinary care of said animals. And never any answers to perfectly legitimate questions about those animals. 
And I don't agree with purchasing animals and pretending it is 'rescue' particularly when as said earlier by another poster there are plenty in genuine need out there.
		
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Whether you agree with purchasing animals to rescue them from risk or not, it isn't illegal and Ahar are open about it when they ask for donations.  You might also find that the definition of rescue does include an exchange of money too.

I've asked questions about animals at Ahar and always been answered, so perhaps it's the way you ask that is the problem and given that Ahar are in the process of reducing a nine grand vet bill i think your concerns about the upkeep and veterinary care of the animals is pretty well unfounded.


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## paddi22 (21 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			I've asked questions about animals at Ahar and always been answered, so perhaps it's the way you ask that is the problem
		
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well i had phrased it as 
'any update on hero please?'
"would love to see how hero is getting on, any update please?"

but since they were deleted i must have asked the wrong way?  since you say there is a right way

can you tell me the right way to ask? and il go on the ahar facebook and i'l  post that exact wording. Then by magic, since i said the right words, i might get an update. let's do that and see how i get a response. i dare you. because you know it won't happen, it will get deleted immediately, as all requests are


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## Chocolate moonbeam (21 February 2017)

paddi22 said:



			well i had phrased it as 
'any update on hero please?'
"would love to see how hero is getting on, any update please?"

but since they were deleted i must have asked the wrong way?  since you say there is a right way

can you tell me the right way to ask? and il go on the ahar facebook and i'l  post that exact wording. Then by magic, since i said the right words, i might get an update. let's do that and see how i get a response. i dare you. because you know it won't happen, it will get deleted immediately, as all requests are
		
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Personally i think you were banned from the page years ago so i doubt you asked any such question.


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## ester (21 February 2017)

Why is the size of their vet bill indicative of the quality of care? correlation doesn't always indicate causation you know (though maybe that is also too complicated a concept for you) and there is a worrying amount of evidence to suggest that the quality of care is substandard and animals suffering being exploited for money raising purposes- which I would think would leave a nasty taste in most normal peoples' mouths.  

I'm not the one asking the questions so it certainly has nothing to do with the way I have asked them, but I have seen plenty of polite questions asked and immediately deleted, which doesn't fill one with confidence does it?


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## paddi22 (21 February 2017)

eh thats a lie because i literally posted 2 times asking those exact questions, so if they banned me for that then they are worse than i thought


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## paddi22 (21 February 2017)

just posted for a third time there politely, so lets see how we get on and if theres any reply. its up 3 mins, so i'd genuinely be delighted if they updated their donators on the case


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## Chocolate moonbeam (21 February 2017)

ester said:



			Why is the size of their vet bill indicative of the quality of care? correlation doesn't always indicate causation you know (though maybe that is also too complicated a concept for you) and there is a worrying amount of evidence to suggest that the quality of care is substandard and animals suffering being exploited for money raising purposes- which I would think would leave a nasty taste in most normal peoples' mouths.  

I'm not the one asking the questions so it certainly has nothing to do with the way I have asked them, but I have seen plenty of polite questions asked and immediately deleted, which doesn't fill one with confidence does it?
		
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It indicates that people who claim they get no vet care are clearly lying.  You don't get a nine grand vet bill by not having a vet attend to the animals.

I think perhaps you should read the accounts of people who have been to Ahar recently and people who actually volunteer there rather than reading accounts of people who haven't even been.

I do find that people who have recent direct accounts are more likely to be more truthful than someone who was last there x number of years ago.  

Someone who adopted a dog from there recently has said a number of times on these Ahar threads that accounts of the facilities put on here do not match those of what they saw when they went there.


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## ester (21 February 2017)

Can you show me where I claimed they got no vet care? I think you will find I didn't so your counterargument to my point about care doesn't really stand, it was just as usual random information thrown out at me for no real reason. In a minute you will say you were telling me their current vet bill for some other random reason/point you were trying to make given your previous posts.


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## Chocolate moonbeam (21 February 2017)

ester said:



			Can you show me where I claimed they got no vet care? I think you will find I didn't so your counterargument to my point about care doesn't stand, it was just as usual random information thrown out at me for no reason. In a minute you will say you were telling me their current vet bill for some other random reason/point you were trying to make.
		
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Did i mention your name in that.  No, i think you will find i said people who claim they get no vet care.


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## ester (21 February 2017)

Your post about the vets fees was in direct reply to me (you quoted my post) 
you then quoted me again to say that people were lying saying they got no vet care.
if it wasn't relevant to what *I* had said rather than what you are suggesting 'other's' whom I don't know have said please don't quote me in that part of your reply.


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## Chocolate moonbeam (21 February 2017)

ester said:



			Your post about the vets fees was in direct reply to me (you quoted my post) 
you then quoted me again to say that people were lying saying they got no vet care.
if it wasn't relevant to what *I* had said rather than what you are suggesting 'other's' whom I don't know have said please don't quote me in that part of your reply.
		
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Yes, because you claimed there was evidence of concerns over their veterinary care so i informed you that they had (it's been dramatically reduced thanks to donations that you resent them asking for) a massive vet bill in order to demonstrate to you that despite what you might have heard or read it isn't the truth.

I did not suggest YOU claimed the animals got no vet care, simply responding to what YOU wrote in YOUR post.


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## ester (21 February 2017)

But the information of the size of their vets bill still means nothing, other than they haven't paid their vet for a while and the vet has kindly continued treating animals. 
It is possible to have valid concerns about the veterinary care received generally and a large rescue organisation still have a large veterinary bill, the two are not exclusive. Having valid concerns about care doesn't mean no vet care. I am not sure why that point is also a struggle.


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## Chocolate moonbeam (21 February 2017)

ester said:



			But the information of the size of their vets bill still means nothing, other than they haven't paid their vet for a while and the vet has kindly continued treating animals. 
It is possible to have valid concerns about the veterinary care received generally and a large rescue organisation still have a large veterinary bill, the two are not exclusive. Having valid concerns about care doesn't mean no vet care. I am not sure why that point is also a struggle.
		
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So is it the vet you have a problem with, since they deliver the veterinary care.


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## MiniMilton (21 February 2017)

paddi22 said:



			well i had phrased it as 
'any update on hero please?'
"would love to see how hero is getting on, any update please?"

but since they were deleted i must have asked the wrong way?  since you say there is a right way

can you tell me the right way to ask? and il go on the ahar facebook and i'l  post that exact wording. Then by magic, since i said the right words, i might get an update. let's do that and see how i get a response. i dare you. because you know it won't happen, it will get deleted immediately, as all requests are
		
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I asked the same question, in the same polite way. And my message got deleted and I got blocked from the page. I only had a vague interest in the questionable practices at Ahar until that happened. Then I realised the secrecy and dishonesty really was a big issue with Ahar. Alarm bells


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## Leo Walker (21 February 2017)

respectedpony said:



			I do find that people who have recent direct accounts are more likely to be more truthful than someone who was last there x number of years ago.  
.
		
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My friend and her partner were working there a matter of weeks ago. Shes finally been able to get herself out and has posted a lot on the AHAR exposed page, including the drunken ramblings and threats from SG. There is a reason more people dont come forward, and she is it!

https://www.facebook.com/Animal-Heaven-Animal-Rescue-AHAR-Exposed-795034397244586/?fref=ts


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## Chocolate moonbeam (21 February 2017)

Leo Walker said:



			My friend and her partner were working there a matter of weeks ago. Shes finally been able to get herself out and has posted a lot on the AHAR exposed page, including the drunken ramblings and threats from SG. There is a reason more people dont come forward, and she is it!

https://www.facebook.com/Animal-Heaven-Animal-Rescue-AHAR-Exposed-795034397244586/?fref=ts

Click to expand...

Oh yeah, i know exactly who you are referring to.


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## hairycob (21 February 2017)

Sounds like the old saying "sunlight is the best disinfectant" is appropriate here. Honestly Chocolate Moonbeam, you should bow out now because with every post you just make AHAR sound even more dodgy. If they aren't you are doing them no favours.


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## Chocolate moonbeam (21 February 2017)

hairycob said:



			Sounds like the old saying "sunlight is the best disinfectant" is appropriate here. Honestly Chocolate Moonbeam, you should bow out now because with every post you just make AHAR sound even more dodgy. If they aren't you are doing them no favours.
		
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Oh you'd like that wouldn't you, give you free reign to spread lies and gossip.


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## Leo Walker (21 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			Oh yeah, i know exactly who you are referring to.
		
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Shes one of many, but it just happens that she had the sense to record phone calls etc when things where getting really bad so has hard evidence.


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## Chocolate moonbeam (21 February 2017)

Leo Walker said:



			Shes one of many, but it just happens that she had the sense to record phone calls etc when things where getting really bad so has hard evidence.
		
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She's also a liar.


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## Leo Walker (21 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			She's also a liar.
		
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Is she? 

What did she lie about? 

Is her partner a liar too?


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## Chocolate moonbeam (21 February 2017)

Leo Walker said:



			Is she? 

What did she lie about? 

Is her partner a liar too?
		
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What hasn't she lied about.  She has also sold a rescue horse she got from Ahar and is now trying to rehome another one.

As for her partner, well maybe that can wait for a while.


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## ycbm (21 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			Oh you'd like that wouldn't you, give you free reign to spread lies and gossip.
		
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No-one needs to. You're doing a fantastic one person job of making AHAR look completely flakey. I wasn't interested in them in the slightest until you started 'defending' them.


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## Chocolate moonbeam (21 February 2017)

ycbm said:



			No-one needs to. You're doing a fantastic one person job of making AHAR look completely flakey. I wasn't interested in them in the slightest until you started 'defending' them.
		
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Yeah ok then


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## copple (21 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			Oh i did know as did several other people commenting on this thread.

Which begs the question, why demand i answer a question from people who already know the answer?

She died whilst undergoing an operation on her leg to sort out the club foot.
		
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Why have AHAR made no public statement that Hero is dead?


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## Chocolate moonbeam (21 February 2017)

copple said:



			Why have AHAR made no public statement that Hero is dead?
		
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Is there some law that says they have to?

They haven't been asking for any donations for her treatment so what exactly have they done wrong here.  She got the operation the donors paid for, she died whilst being operated on, end of story.


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## Dobiegirl (21 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			Is there some law that says they have to?

They haven't been asking for any donations for her treatment so what exactly have they done wrong here.  She got the operation the donors paid for, she died whilst being operated on, end of story.
		
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Wow the sheer arrogance of your statement, so the supporters and dona tors who gave so generously are not deserving of an update or have I misread that. As Ive said many times Ive never come across a rescue which treats its supporters with so much disdain as Ahar. If its true that your donations are down then its down to Ahar who continue to take their supporters for granted.


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## copple (21 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			Why does a charity raising money for the upkeep and veterinary care of animals in the rescue bother you so much.

I don't think I'll ever figure out why you seem to resent this.
		
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It's status as a rescue is questionable. Veterinary care is not given to all animals, hence the reason for so many welfare notices where AHAR had to be TOLD to get veterinary care for some animals on site. Raising money is fine, but when AHAR refuse to give information about an animal who's care was paid for by an individual, that's when their PR sucks and their respect for donators goes down the pan.


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## copple (21 February 2017)

Paddi22, whey only reply to people who state they have donated.


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## Chocolate moonbeam (21 February 2017)

Dobiegirl said:



			Wow the sheer arrogance of your statement, so the supporters and dona tors who gave so generously are not deserving of an update or have I misread that. As Ive said many times Ive never come across a rescue which treats its supporters with so much disdain as Ahar. If its true that your donations are down then its down to Ahar who continue to take their supporters for granted.
		
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So tell me Dobiegirl, as you knew Hero was dead why didn't you say something.


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## Chocolate moonbeam (21 February 2017)

copple said:



			It's status as a rescue is questionable. Veterinary care is not given to all animals, hence the reason for so many welfare notices where AHAR had to be TOLD to get veterinary care for some animals on site. Raising money is fine, but when AHAR refuse to give information about an animal who's care was paid for by an individual, that's when their PR sucks and their respect for donators goes down the pan.
		
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Can you prove veterinary care isn't given to all animals?

And as for these welfare notices, perhaps you would like to post the details about each and every one since you seem to know so much about them.


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## Dobiegirl (21 February 2017)

copple said:



			Paddi22, whey only reply to people who state they have donated.
		
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They deleted it without answering as per normal, the lady sponsoring Alfie and who gave over 200 euros  in sponsorship was also deleted for having the audacity to ask for an update.


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## Leo Walker (21 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			What hasn't she lied about
		
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I dont know, you tell me. You are the one making the allegations


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## RoseMc (21 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			The initial post on the Ahar facebook stated it could take up to 18 months for treatment to be completed.  Any donors should have noted that and realised any money they donated for an op might be used later rather than sooner.

Little point in operating on a horse standing on tiptoes as she was when she went into the centre.
		
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Yeah far better to do one hoof trim and dump her and other sick horses on a disused golf course  approx 30 mins  from AHAR.
Bit like  those horses that got left to die in the bog at the old place.


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## RoseMc (21 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			Can you prove veterinary care isn't given to all animals?

And as for these welfare notices, perhaps you would like to post the details about each and every one since you seem to know so much about them.
		
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Would you like to prove they are?
Those welfare notices were put up with reference numbers, why don't you ask the manager to show you.


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## RoseMc (21 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			Is there some law that says they have to?

They haven't been asking for any donations for her treatment so what exactly have they done wrong here.  She got the operation the donors paid for, she died whilst being operated on, end of story.
		
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It's called common decency, something AHAR totally lacks.
If that is truly the case let AHAR show a vet report to donors, given their NEW approach to transparency and all.


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## RoseMc (21 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			She's also a liar.
		
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That is quite an accusation, I do hope you have proof of that. Something you may not know about this forum is the  server records ISP's  so unlike the vitriol you spew  elsewhere, you can be traced back  should the person decide to pursue
 you for any legal action


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## Dave's Mam (21 February 2017)

Chocolate Moonbeam, you seem to "know" a lot.  You say your connection to AHAR is none of our business, which says to me there is, otherwise you'd just say no.  (Someone else has said this before me).  So, if you are connected with AHAR, and you know what is going on, what are you, yes you, doing about it?


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## Dobiegirl (22 February 2017)

https://www.change.org/p/minister-o...-ahar-incl-excavation-of-the-carcasses-buried

Just a reminder for anyone who hasnt signed the petition,please do so and share, thank you.


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## Chocolate moonbeam (22 February 2017)

RoseMc said:



			That is quite an accusation, I do hope you have proof of that. Something you may not know about this forum is the  server records ISP's  so unlike the vitriol you spew  elsewhere, you can be traced back  should the person decide to pursue
 you for any legal action


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Now that is interesting, thank you.  I shall retain that bit of information for future reference


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## hairycob (22 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			Oh you'd like that wouldn't you, give you free reign to spread lies and gossip.
		
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Chocolate Moonbeam, of all the people posting on here you are doing the most Sam age. I can't work out whether you hate them and are being crafty or if you are deluded enough to think you are helping.
I'm puzzled why you think letting sunlight in would be a problem meanwhile you continue to dig a bigger hole for AHAR.


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## ycbm (22 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			What hasn't she lied about.  She has also sold a rescue horse she got from Ahar and is now trying to rehome another one..
		
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Is this how that story went? I'm guessing but it seems likely.

AHAR bought a horse from the knacker man which would otherwise have had a swift humane end. Instead of that horse being killed by the knacker man, another one was, so the sum benefit to horse kind by AHAR's purchase was zero at best and an increase in breeding of homeless horses at worst.

AHAR then didn't want to pay to rehabilitate this horse, or didn't have the funds to do so, so they gave it away (or sold it for a rehoming fee?)  without checking its health or securing its future in any way.

The new home luckily received a horse which did not infect its stables with strangles and didn't have incurable laminitis. They rehabbed the horse to a state where it was sellable, sold it, decided to spend the meagre profit they made on doing more of the work AHAR don't do on their 'rescues' and told AHAR they had room for another.

How close am I? Because from what I've read about your practices, it's entirely plausible I'd say.


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## Mollylittle (22 February 2017)

Holy smoke. Chocolate teapot, few things:
Bare hoof growth: All barefoot horse will grow their front hoofs A LOT quicker than their hindhoofs. Any farrier will confirm that to you.I see it with my lot too.Front hoofs need trimming every 6 weeks, hind usually every 4 month.
Hero: That leg is not only a clubfoot.it WAS a clubfoot when Hero came to ahar - a bad one.But manageable with regular treatments.In the last picture seen of her, the clubfoot has turned and affected the tendons and they have shortened top a degree that hero can't stretch her foot anymore. that ONLY happens if you do not treat. Further more, if you look at the vidoe posted with this petition, you will see the overgrowth on Heros' healthy foot. It's overgrown and split - that takes at least 9-12 month. So, you want us to believe that a farrier was there and only trimmer her hindfeet? The facts are there and plain for all to see who aren't legally(or illegally) blind. Hero's state after her 'rescue' was caused by Neglect from AHAR. Plain and simple.


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## Iapposeanimalabuse (22 February 2017)

paddi22 said:



			oh god! this again.

i end up repeating this on every ahar thread as you get accused of the same thing.

I have visited ireland, (for 39 years since i was born here)
I have not been to ahar but have close contact with transporters, suppliers, other charities who interact with them on a regular basis.
I work with horse rescues. I know all about how charities interact and work with organisations. In fact, its because of that that I KNOW the issues ahar have and why people aren't happy with them. Can you name ONE established charity with a GOOD reputation who will say a good word about AHAR? Because i don't. I know exactly why suzanne wasn't allowed be a welfare officer for IHWT. That IHWT charity is one of the best regulated ones in ireland.  Ask them would they ever send a horse to AHAR? I know what they'd say.

Your livestock with deadstock comment is actually laughable. We don't have 'deadstock', we have animals who are respectfully put to sleep well before their suffering gets too much and they drop. Of course you get animals who drop dead of heart attacks, aneurisms etc , but the scale of that should be tiny. The idea that its fine to have  a yard of 'deadstock'  buried in the grounds is actually insane and shows the level of unreality that ahar functions in. 

I sleep perfectly well at night knowing that at any stage opf the year we have a  field of rescues being rehabilitated to new homes. What i don't have is horses crippled and dumping fields like hero, and then disappearing. Dying donkeys being dragged onto a sofa for a photo op to raise money. Horses being shipped with strangles..jesus, i could actually go on and on here.

So you can dismount off your judgy high horse there because myself and a lot of other posters here DO work with charities and rehab horses. So your rant to us is meaningless.
		
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How could she be an inspector for IHWT when she was being investigated by them?


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## Iapposeanimalabuse (22 February 2017)

From one fairytale lover to another. 

Once upon a time there was a sanctuary for all the unloved and unwanted animals, this place was filled with love, rainbows, unicorns and dragons. The ruler of this magical kingdom ruled all and her henchmen carried out her bidding to protect her magical world. moonbeams shone down on the ruler and chocolate rivers flowed. Like the Pied Piper the ruler surrounded herself with little ones who kept its deep dark secrets. One day she discovered a way to build onto her kingdom but this meant she had to find a way of getting grownups  to believe her tales and throw pots of gold at her feet. The more pots of gold she got the more she wanted and the need for more neglecting, torturing and murdering of animals she had to show. Till one day the grown ups could take the suffering no more and started to tell their tales. The magical ruler  was caught for doing these bad bad things and sent to prison for a long long time ... the animals in heaven cried down from above in joy creating a Mecca that cleansed the sanctuary of the past releasing the animals that had lived in hope so long who all lived happily ever after ... the end


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## copple (22 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			Is there some law that says they have to?

They haven't been asking for any donations for her treatment so what exactly have they done wrong here.  She got the operation the donors paid for, she died whilst being operated on, end of story.
		
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I'm not aware of any law that says you legally have to respect people who are constantly asked for money. 
On one hand you say AHAR are not asking for money for Hero's care, then on the other hand you say they've already paid for her care and operation. If AHAR can't be bothered to update people on animals, then perhaps they should stop the practice of featuring each one on their page, naming it or subjecting supporters to fantasy filled stories of how they were "rescued". If supporters don't deserve an update AFTER they have given money, then why post so much drivel before money is donated?


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## copple (22 February 2017)

No need for me to prove anything. The report from the DAFM is clear. I'm sure you have seen it, it's quite a lengthy read.


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## RoseMc (22 February 2017)

Is there some law that says they have to?

They haven't been asking for any donations for her treatment so what exactly have they done wrong here. She got the operation the donors paid for said:
			
		


			ah sure now, you know what actually happened, The manager missed the appointment with the specialist, and the vet took HERO away and put her to sleep because  her problem had been left untreated to long past the point of any hope. Had they followed  through when they first raised the funds she would have  had a chance, but she  got dumped in Limerick with other horses that had to be hidden, to rot.
Shame on you for defending them, once again you show your true colours and agenda
		
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## Chocolate moonbeam (22 February 2017)

ycbm said:



			Is this how that story went? I'm guessing but it seems likely.

AHAR bought a horse from the knacker man which would otherwise have had a swift humane end. Instead of that horse being killed by the knacker man, another one was, so the sum benefit to horse kind by AHAR's purchase was zero at best and an increase in breeding of homeless horses at worst.

AHAR then didn't want to pay to rehabilitate this horse, or didn't have the funds to do so, so they gave it away (or sold it for a rehoming fee?)  without checking its health or securing its future in any way.

The new home luckily received a horse which did not infect its stables with strangles and didn't have incurable laminitis. They rehabbed the horse to a state where it was sellable, sold it, decided to spend the meagre profit they made on doing more of the work AHAR don't do on their 'rescues' and told AHAR they had room for another.

How close am I? Because from what I've read about your practices, it's entirely plausible I'd say.
		
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You're about as far away as you could possibly get actually.


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## Leo Walker (22 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			You're about as far away as you could possibly get actually.
		
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No she isnt. She is absolutely and exactly right. 

I'll see if my friends wants to come and post herself actually. Shes not a forum person but I'm pretty sure she wont take lightly to you telling bare faced lies about her where she cant defend herself.

But feel free to correct it and tell me exactly how this is wrong


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## stormox (22 February 2017)

Its pretty close to one I know to be factual, here it goes- Once upon a time AHAR bought a pony from the meatman. Advertised it on their page as a 4yr old gelding. My friend rang up, it arrived and it was a 2 year old colt, 13hh with lice and worms. My friend kept him 2 years, had him passported and castrated and made him into a good condition, non lousy/wormy youngster. She broke him in, got him riding nicely, but he was too small so she sold him at a local horse fair as a 4 year old for what it took to cover her costs. He went to a very nice young local girl who is doing well with him.
This story ended well, but the ending could well have been not so good had it not been a knowledgeable person he went to. There was no home check.


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## Dobiegirl (22 February 2017)

What about KM who used to foster horses for AHAR, she paid for everything herself and schooled and got them to a good riding standard. They were returned to AHAR who rehomed them, KM was horrified to see one of them advertised for sale using her photos, she rang up the girl advertising her who said SG had said she could do what she wanted which proves time and time again the priority is to get rid with no come back, certainly no rescue back-up.


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## Leo Walker (22 February 2017)

I've just had a quick chat with my friend. Its actually much worse than people think:

She said to ask Deidre aka CM aka the creator of the Facebook page, the following:

"Ask if they want pictures of the horse register with all the names of the dealers and factory men who took horses out of there in it"

AHAR have been shipping horses off to the meat man. When I asked how many and how often, she said: 

"lots all the wild ones she was giving away once theyd made her her fortune"


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## Chocolate moonbeam (22 February 2017)

Leo Walker said:



			I've just had a quick chat with my friend. Its actually much worse than people think:

She said to ask Deidre aka CM aka the creator of the Facebook page, the following:

"Ask if they want pictures of the horse register with all the names of the dealers and factory men who took horses out of there in it"

AHAR have been shipping horses off to the meat man. When I asked how many and how often, she said: 

"lots all the wild ones she was giving away once theyd made her her fortune"
		
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Well that differs somewhat from a claim made a short while ago about Ahar not having the funds to look after their animals.

Perhaps it's about time these people got together and actually got their stories straight.


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## Chocolate moonbeam (22 February 2017)

Mollylittle said:



			Holy smoke. Chocolate teapot, few things:
Bare hoof growth: All barefoot horse will grow their front hoofs A LOT quicker than their hindhoofs. Any farrier will confirm that to you.I see it with my lot too.Front hoofs need trimming every 6 weeks, hind usually every 4 month.
Hero: That leg is not only a clubfoot.it WAS a clubfoot when Hero came to ahar - a bad one.But manageable with regular treatments.In the last picture seen of her, the clubfoot has turned and affected the tendons and they have shortened top a degree that hero can't stretch her foot anymore. that ONLY happens if you do not treat. Further more, if you look at the vidoe posted with this petition, you will see the overgrowth on Heros' healthy foot. It's overgrown and split - that takes at least 9-12 month. So, you want us to believe that a farrier was there and only trimmer her hindfeet? The facts are there and plain for all to see who aren't legally(or illegally) blind. Hero's state after her 'rescue' was caused by Neglect from AHAR. Plain and simple.
		
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Actually, what you are claiming about trimming seems to differ from anything I have read which states the hind hoofs do need trimming at regular intervals especially when the horse is kept on ground that won't wear them down naturally.

And not only that if we take your 4 month trimming regime as an example yet you claim the front foot is 9-12 months growth, then this would mean this horse would have seen a farrier at least twice.


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## Chocolate moonbeam (22 February 2017)

copple said:



			No need for me to prove anything. The report from the DAFM is clear. I'm sure you have seen it, it's quite a lengthy read.
		
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That's because you can't prove anything.  It's nothing more than a list that tells you nothing in particular.


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## Chocolate moonbeam (22 February 2017)

RoseMc said:



			ah sure now, you know what actually happened, The manager missed the appointment with the specialist, and the vet took HERO away and put her to sleep because  her problem had been left untreated to long past the point of any hope. Had they followed  through when they first raised the funds she would have  had a chance, but she  got dumped in Limerick with other horses that had to be hidden, to rot.
Shame on you for defending them, once again you show your true colours and agenda
		
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Can you prove any of that or are you just listening to hearsay as per?


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## Chocolate moonbeam (22 February 2017)

Dobiegirl said:



			What about KM who used to foster horses for AHAR, she paid for everything herself and schooled and got them to a good riding standard. They were returned to AHAR who rehomed them, KM was horrified to see one of them advertised for sale using her photos, she rang up the girl advertising her who said SG had said she could do what she wanted which proves time and time again the priority is to get rid with no come back, certainly no rescue back-up.
		
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So your friend was horrified to see a rescue horse up for sale yet not horrified by the sale of another one by someone else.

Isn't that what they call double standards?


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## Leo Walker (22 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			Well that differs somewhat from a claim made a short while ago about Ahar not having the funds to look after their animals.

Perhaps it's about time these people got together and actually got their stories straight.
		
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I think you missed the important bit:

AHAR are selling horses on to the meat man after the funds have been raised. Which given who you are, I'm sure you know already


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## Chocolate moonbeam (22 February 2017)

Leo Walker said:



			I think you missed the important bit:

AHAR are selling horses on to the meat man after the funds have been raised. Which given who you are, I'm sure you know already
		
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Who am I?  If it's the person you mentioned in your above post, then you are very, very, very wrong.


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## Dobiegirl (22 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			So your friend was horrified to see a rescue horse up for sale yet not horrified by the sale of another one by someone else.

Isn't that what they call double standards?
		
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Do you mind explaining as I dont have a clue what you are on about and anyone else reading this wont either.


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## Chocolate moonbeam (22 February 2017)

Dobiegirl said:



			Do you mind explaining as I dont have a clue what you are on about and anyone else reading this wont either.
		
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Do you have problems with reading simple comments or something?


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## stormox (22 February 2017)

I think chocolate moonbeam is an anti-AHAR person who writes nonsensical posts arguing every point anyone writes in order to keep the 'Investigate AHAR' petition at the top of the forum so more people notice it and sign. I must congratulate him/her/it on a fantastic job.


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## copple (22 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			That's because you can't prove anything.  It's nothing more than a list that tells you nothing in particular.
		
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I don't need to prove it. The proof is there for all to read. But you are probably unlikely to believe it as you seem to think everyone who has anything to say on the matter is a liar, with the exception of the woman who runs AHAR. Your knowledge of horses is googled and I doubt you could tell the front from the back end of a panto horse. 27+ pages now on this subject and you are the only one frantically trying to justify the cruelty at this rescue.  The story of Hero alone is a major red flag. AHAR needs to be investigated and if they have nothing to hide then they can at least start to redeem themselves by telling the truth.


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## Chocolate moonbeam (22 February 2017)

stormox said:



			I think chocolate moonbeam is an anti-AHAR person who writes nonsensical posts arguing every point anyone writes in order to keep the 'Investigate AHAR' petition at the top of the forum so more people notice it and sign. I must congratulate him/her/it on a fantastic job.
		
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You do know the purpose of a forum don't you?


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## Dobiegirl (22 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			Do you have problems with reading simple comments or something?
		
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Try to remember where you are, when in Rome and all that, I dont have the foggiest what you are on about and Im sure anyone else reading this wont  either or is that the intention  to confuse people as this whole thread has you putting out half statements avoiding questions and just being rude.


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## stormox (22 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			You do know the purpose of a forum don't you?
		
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You are being facetious now.


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## Chocolate moonbeam (22 February 2017)

copple said:



			I don't need to prove it. The proof is there for all to read. But you are probably unlikely to believe it as you seem to think everyone who has anything to say on the matter is a liar, with the exception of the woman who runs AHAR. Your knowledge of horses is googled and I doubt you could tell the front from the back end of a panto horse. 27+ pages now on this subject and you are the only one frantically trying to justify the cruelty at this rescue.  The story of Hero alone is a major red flag. AHAR needs to be investigated and if they have nothing to hide then they can at least start to redeem themselves by telling the truth.
		
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No, the proof is not there to read because there is no content to download.  You have no clue what is written within any of those numbered items because you know full well the DAFM didn't release that information.  If they had and it had contained anything which you thought might boost your cause, you'd have been posting it all over the shop.

Instead, all you can do is post a list of items relating to the timeframe of the FOI request and claim foul with no evidence to back any of it up.


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## Chocolate moonbeam (22 February 2017)

And what the hell is going on with the American date format.  The DAFM is based in Ireland is it not?


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## stormox (22 February 2017)

If all is above board and shipshape at AHAR, chocolate moonbeam, why are you so opposed to an impartial investigation which could clear AHARs name? I would have thought the trustees and manager would have welcomed any such investigation.


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## Chocolate moonbeam (22 February 2017)

stormox said:



			If all is above board and shipshape at AHAR, chocolate moonbeam, why are you so opposed to an impartial investigation which could clear AHARs name? I would have thought the trustees and manager would have welcomed any such investigation.
		
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Where did i say i was opposed to anything, i came into this thread to highlight the despicable ways that anti Ahar crews will drag themselves down to in order to attempt to cause as much strife for Ahar as they can.


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## stormox (22 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			Where did i say i was opposed to anything, i came into this thread to highlight the despicable ways that anti Ahar crews will drag themselves down to in order to attempt to cause as much strife for Ahar as they can.
		
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So you welcome -and have therefore presumably signed-the petition that is asking for an investigation into AHAR?  

Glad to hear it.


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## copple (22 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			No, the proof is not there to read because there is no content to download.  You have no clue what is written within any of those numbered items because you know full well the DAFM didn't release that information.  If they had and it had contained anything which you thought might boost your cause, you'd have been posting it all over the shop.

Instead, all you can do is post a list of items relating to the timeframe of the FOI request and claim foul with no evidence to back any of it up.
		
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eh, 20+ welfare notices in a year is proof enough that all was not as AHAR said it was. Several of those notices were to seek vet care. that plus up to ten grand a month withdrawn via ATM with no receipts or records of expenditure is hardly the way to run a rescue. No wonder the main benefactor ran a mile along with hundreds of volunteers and admin staff. Are they ALL liars too?


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## Chocolate moonbeam (22 February 2017)

copple said:



			eh, 20+ welfare notices in a year is proof enough that all was not as AHAR said it was. Several of those notices were to seek vet care. that plus up to ten grand a month withdrawn via ATM with no receipts or records of expenditure is hardly the way to run a rescue. No wonder the main benefactor ran a mile along with hundreds of volunteers and admin staff. Are they ALL liars too?
		
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Erm that AW5 form is a form, not a welfare notice in case you didn't notice.  Now you tell me what was written on those forms (with the American date format from the Irish DAFM)


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## paddi22 (22 February 2017)

stormox said:



			I think chocolate moonbeam is an anti-AHAR person who writes nonsensical posts arguing every point anyone writes in order to keep the 'Investigate AHAR' petition at the top of the forum so more people notice it and sign. I must congratulate him/her/it on a fantastic job.
		
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have to say, i was actually half thinking this!


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## copple (22 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			Erm that AW5 form is a form, not a welfare notice in case you didn't notice.  Now you tell me what was written on those forms (with the American date format from the Irish DAFM)
		
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The ARE welfare notices: To seek vet care for sheep on site. To stop using the transporter as a kennel, To reduce equine numbers by 60. To cease the transport of live animals. To seek vet care for 3 equines. To cease taking in equines. 
Why did you not comment on the money and the people who ran for the hills?


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## Dobiegirl (22 February 2017)

paddi22 said:



			have to say, i was actually half thinking this!
		
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She is doing a great PR job for AHAR, all these views from people who have never heard of them now know to avoid at all cost.


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## Chocolate moonbeam (22 February 2017)

copple said:



			The ARE welfare notices: To seek vet care for sheep on site. To stop using the transporter as a kennel, To reduce equine numbers by 60. To cease the transport of live animals. To seek vet care for 3 equines. To cease taking in equines. 
Why did you not comment on the money and the people who ran for the hills?
		
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And the other 14+ welfare notices you claim are there?

To cease transport of live animals, hmm, seems they must have relented on that one then or perhaps it was never actually a welfare notice at all but rather relating to the training required for type two transportation?

And clearly they were still taking in equines, so that appears to be a load of gumph too.


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## ycbm (22 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			Where did i say i was opposed to anything, i came into this thread to highlight the despicable ways that anti Ahar crews will drag themselves down to in order to attempt to cause as much strife for Ahar as they can.
		
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Can you explain why anyone would want to do this? Never mind there being several 'crews' of them? Is there any other animal rescue charity that gets this kind of bad publicity?  OK the RSPCA are criticised, but that's for prosecuting the wrong people and NOT rescuing horses.

Why would substantial numbers of people want AHAR caused strife if there are no problems with it?


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## Chocolate moonbeam (22 February 2017)

ycbm said:



			Can you explain why anyone would want to do this? Never mind there being several 'crews' of them? Is there any other animal rescue charity that gets this kind of bad publicity?  OK the RSPCA are criticised, but that's for prosecuting the wrong people and NOT rescuing horses.

Why would substantial numbers of people want AHAR caused strife if there are no problems with it?
		
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Loads of animal rescue centres get this type of treatment.  God only knows why these trolls who call themselves animal lovers want to wreck the place that these often abused and neglected animals have found a sanctuary prior to being found new loving homes, but there you go eh, now't so queer as folk.


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## copple (22 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			And the other 14+ welfare notices you claim are there?

To cease transport of live animals, hmm, seems they must have relented on that one then or perhaps it was never actually a welfare notice at all but rather relating to the training required for type two transportation?

And clearly they were still taking in equines, so that appears to be a load of gumph too.
		
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People who are not qualified to drive specific transportation SHOULD NOT drive it. It would be a danger to animals and other road users not to mention illegal. They are taking in equines because they clearly reduced numbers by dumping a few horses on a dis-used golf course and others went to their "5 star" homes. And AGAIN, what about the money and the people who left - is that gumph too?


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## ycbm (22 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			Loads of animal rescue centres get this type of treatment.
		
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Not on this forum they don't.


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## Iapposeanimalabuse (22 February 2017)

Did she get a drivers license then?


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## Chocolate moonbeam (22 February 2017)

copple said:



			People who are not qualified to drive specific transportation SHOULD NOT drive it. It would be a danger to animals and other road users not to mention illegal. They are taking in equines because they clearly reduced numbers by dumping a few horses on a dis-used golf course and others went to their "5 star" homes. And AGAIN, what about the money and the people who left - is that gumph too?
		
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But the people you are referring to are qualified.  Check it out on the DAFM website if you like.


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## Chocolate moonbeam (22 February 2017)

ycbm said:



			Not on this forum they don't.
		
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Oh really, i'm sure i saw an animal sanctury in the UK slated on here recently.

Swiftwood i believe.


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## copple (22 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			But the people you are referring to are qualified.  Check it out on the DAFM website if you like.
		
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Perhaps they were not qualified at the time of the inspection, that would explain why some had to do a transport course. Or perhaps it was to do with AHAR not using dividers when transporting equines. Who knows. 
Now for the 3rd time, what about the money and all the staff who jumped ship?


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## Chocolate moonbeam (22 February 2017)

copple said:



			Perhaps they were not qualified at the time of the inspection, that would explain why some had to do a transport course. Or perhaps it was to do with AHAR not using dividers when transporting equines. Who knows. 
Now for the 3rd time, what about the money and all the staff who jumped ship?
		
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Well would you believe it, despite the so called proof you claim there is you are now showing that you don't actually know what it was about


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## Leo Walker (22 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			Loads of animal rescue centres get this type of treatment.  God only knows why these trolls who call themselves animal lovers want to wreck the place that these often abused and neglected animals have found a sanctuary prior to being found new loving homes, but there you go eh, now't so queer as folk.
		
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Well in the case of my friend and her partner it is first hand experience of the place and the things she saw happening there, especially the things happening out of sight of the public.


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## copple (22 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			Well would you believe it, despite the so called proof you claim there is you are now showing that you don't actually know what it was about 

Click to expand...

So you avoided the money and staff question yet again.
So, let me put it this way, if you are OK with the treatment of Hero, dis-believe what people are saying and have no view on the spent money, just what would it take for you to be remotely concerned about the operation of any rescue?


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## ycbm (22 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			Oh really, i'm sure i saw an animal sanctury in the UK slated on here recently.

Swiftwood i believe.
		
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https://forums-secure.horseandhound.co.uk/showthread.php?735618-Swiftwood-rescue&highlight=swiftwood


Criticised for raising money to bring horses over to the UK from Ireland from AHAR.


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## Chocolate moonbeam (22 February 2017)

Leo Walker said:



			Well in the case of my friend and her partner it is first hand experience of the place and the things she saw happening there, especially the things happening out of sight of the public.
		
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Oh yes, the bloke who quite happily stayed there for what, 18 months and never said a word about any of this so called cruelty.

Wouldn't that make him party to it if it were proven to exist?

Can he really afford to be implicated in any dodgy stuff right now do you think?


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## Chocolate moonbeam (22 February 2017)

ycbm said:



https://forums-secure.horseandhound.co.uk/showthread.php?735618-Swiftwood-rescue&highlight=swiftwood


Criticised for raising money to bring horses over to the UK from Ireland from AHAR.
		
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Is that a crime now?


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## ycbm (22 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			Is that a crime now?
		
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The discussion was about the 'crews' of people you claim are out to get AHAR and that no other charity has that level of complaint made against them yet you insist that there is no basis for it.

You said that thread had similar criticism, and it doesn't.

Your question is not relevant to the discussion, but I will answer it anyway. Why is  AHAR is taking on horses which it cannot rehome and then causing more money to be spent shipping them to other countries? There are more horses in this country which need help than can be saved. If money is spent importing others, then even more in this country will die. That is not animal welfare. It's causing additional animal deaths.


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## Chocolate moonbeam (22 February 2017)

ycbm said:



			The discussion was about the 'crews' of people you claim are out to get AHAR and that no other charity has that level of complaint made against them yet you insist that there is no basis for it.

You said that thread had similar criticism, and it doesn't.

Your question is not relevant to the discussion.
		
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Charities have been forced to close their doors because of trolls.  Maybe not criticised on this forum but trolls are trolls wherever they base themselves.


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## ycbm (22 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			Charities have been forced to close their doors because of trolls.  Maybe not criticised on this forum but trolls are trolls wherever they base themselves.
		
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Name them.

I do not believe that any reputable charity has been forced to close because of unfounded allegations of mismanagement and cruelty. But please do enlighten me.


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## paddi22 (22 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			Charities have been forced to close their doors because of trolls.  Maybe not criticised on this forum but trolls are trolls wherever they base themselves.
		
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name one...


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## copple (22 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			Charities have been forced to close their doors because of trolls.  Maybe not criticised on this forum but trolls are trolls wherever they base themselves.
		
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Why do trolls call people trolls?


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## ester (23 February 2017)

At least pick a charity with no links to AHAR. Hillside has been widely criticised including on here, still very much going! 

There are some 'charities/rescues' for whom it wouldn't be a bad thing that they closed their doors. There was a welsh one a good time ago too I think. 

It is worth noting that there are plenty that get praised for their good work too.

I think the definition of troll is proving complicated to CM, entering a debate on a forum with an opinion does not make you a troll, even more so when quite a lot of us know other's real life identities. But that would require some insight and intelligence of thought which seems to be sadly lacking, I do feel sorry for people that struggle with that sort of thing. Much easier just to call TROLL! even if it is anything but. 
I can direct you to some actual forum trolls if you like and are struggling CM? None have posted about AHAR.


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## WeeLassie (23 February 2017)

ycbm said:



https://forums-secure.horseandhound.co.uk/showthread.php?735618-Swiftwood-rescue&highlight=swiftwood


Criticised for raising money to bring horses over to the UK from Ireland from AHAR.
		
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The problem here is AHAR doing no homechecks to make sure these places - Swiftwood, and the 2 mediums in Scotland, had enough funds to offer these horses a secure future. Which they obviously didn't as both places put up 'go fund me' or 'FB' pages to raise funds specifically for the AHAR horses.


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## Mollylittle (23 February 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:



			Actually, what you are claiming about trimming seems to differ from anything I have read which states the hind hoofs do need trimming at regular intervals especially when the horse is kept on ground that won't wear them down naturally.

And not only that if we take your 4 month trimming regime as an example yet you claim the front foot is 9-12 months growth, then this would mean this horse would have seen a farrier at least twice.
		
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Why don't you enlighten yourself and talk to a farrier? Show them the pictures and ask for his/her opinion? Like I did? You seem to have pink glasses (or black ones) on your head and no one is able to get through to your foggy mind.I'm really sorry for your inability to understand the science and the plain facts that you are facing when looking at the video. I'm not going to argue with you on this - I said what i needed to say and if you feel that we are all stupid and you know best(even though you know eff all about horses judging by the comments you're making) than by all means, do that.It's your shortcoming after all - not mine.


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## Dobiegirl (23 February 2017)

https://www.change.org/p/minister-o...n-of-the-carcasses-buried?recruiter=674994065


Please sign the petition and share, thank you.


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## Dobiegirl (10 March 2017)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeVd4Ca1HQE&feature=youtu.be

This just beggers belief and explains why they were not being investigated .https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10212460717820135&set=o.795034397244586&type=3&theater


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## paddi22 (10 March 2017)

yep they definitely got help at a high level to avoid most of the trouble. its frustrating cause you can;t say much without risking court cases and stuff.

but say hypothetically the minister for agriculture at the time was hypothetically a close family friend, i'd imagine in this hypothetical situation that a word in the right ear would make people turn a blind eye. but that just a hypothetical guess... i genuinely don't think people at higher levels knew the extend of the cruelty and scamming thats been done for so long. I think she's a very talented manipulator.


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## FfionWinnie (11 March 2017)

Leo Walker said:



			She did not!
		
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Chocolate moonbeam said:



			She did
		
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Jeez. I knew nothing about this place other than seeing a few FB posts and thinking they were at best a bonkers unprofessional bunch and having read this far it's pretty clear from the clap trap you are spouting "chocolate moonbeam" &#128580; that I was quite right in my assessment of the situation.


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## FfionWinnie (11 March 2017)

Chocolate moonbeam said:










What good would releasing her tendon have done with hoofs in that shape?
		
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In that photo the horse has a far better chance of being sorted out, than in the later photo when it's completely knuckled over. 

You've just proved the animal was left to degenerate while under the care of a rescue. 

Good one.


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## Dobiegirl (11 March 2017)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PrBpZy0LI8&feature=youtu.be


This is the manager of AHAR trying to recruit people to hack into the Exposed page and suggesting they train a 15yr old known to them to do it. This is a woman clearly out of control with no moral compass, she is advised to how to do this by one of her staunch supporters. 

With this woman in control there is no hope for the animals who are just seen as a cash cow and there is no limits to what she will do in order to protect that.


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## ycbm (12 March 2017)

I hadn't signed because I thought it was Ireland's business. I have now.


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## rascal (12 March 2017)

Dobiegirl said:



https://www.change.org/p/minister-o...n-of-the-carcasses-buried?recruiter=674994065


Please sign the petition and share, thank you.
		
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I did, a couple of weeks ago. Hope it does some good. If ever a place needed investigating it is this one.


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## stormox (12 March 2017)

If AHAR have nothing to hide they should welcome an unbiased investigation. The petition isnt to close the place, just to look into how its run, how the animals are treated, etc. and to make sure that the donations are raised are by legitimate ways, and the monies received are used wisely.
AHAR aim a lot of their fundraising posts towards America, Germany and the UK. A lot of the monies donated come from these countries. So although it is in Ireland, it is the business of anyone who donated, wherever they are.


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## MyOldPony (12 March 2017)

That is appalling behaviour from someone who runs a rescue. It makes a complete joke of the pity party they started about the young girl being so called bullied by people raising awareness of the dodgy business that goes on in this place without talks of hacking including the involvement of the self and and same teenage girl. Words fail me. 
If her parents have listened to that I would hope they have distanced themselves.


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## Corbie (13 March 2017)

Has chocolate moonbeam finally left this thread now?
From the way she has stayed vehemently defending them, and avoiding answering questions you might be forgiven for thinking she is from AHAR?


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## Dobiegirl (13 March 2017)

Corbie said:



			Has chocolate moonbeam finally left this thread now?
From the way she has stayed vehemently defending them, and avoiding answering questions you might be forgiven for thinking she is from AHAR?
		
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Who knows, you do wonder how they can defend the indefensible, the latest tape recordings of the manager asking how to get someone to hack peoples accounts and suggesting they get one of their 15yr old volunteers to do it is beyond the pale and surely must be illegal. Im astonished that one of them even know what website to contact to get it set up and then you wonder if this is being funded out of her own pocket or from donations.


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## Leo Walker (13 March 2017)

Corbie said:



			Has chocolate moonbeam finally left this thread now?
From the way she has stayed vehemently defending them, and avoiding answering questions you might be forgiven for thinking she is from AHAR?
		
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She is.


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## Dobiegirl (14 March 2017)

"And anyway, Ahar is so much more than Hero, you lot are fixated with that pony."


This is a quote from someone who may well be CM but is certainly one of Ahars big supporters, this is from the Irish Horse Sanctuary fb page.

Ahar would like us all to forget about Hero because they know they failed her but as we have seen on this thread they will not admit it, no one with half a heart will forget about Hero and well done AE for exposing it because in all probabilities she would still be in that field suffering.


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## Wind in the Willows (15 March 2017)

For your information: RTÉ have done a follow up on AHAR since their original exposé aired previously. You can find it here- http://www.rte.ie/news/investigations-unit/
Please feel free to join up with the Ahar exposed facebook page which has many ex supporter stories with relevant pictures.
Hopefully this new update with interviews with two prolific ex supporters will push the authorities to do something for the sake of the animals.


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