# Stallion choices for my TB mare?



## EP2504 (9 August 2016)

Im looking to breed from by thoroughbred mare next year but I'm stuck on stallion choices. 
She's 17hh and quite fine and long all over, by Hernando out of Step With Style, and ideally I want something smaller (to make no more than 16hh- obviously I'm aware however that it's luck of the draw) and a bit stockier, not exactly stocky but doesn't look like a slight breeze would push them over. 
I want to produce something for affiliated eventing and just a general fun horse but there are too many stallions to choose from! 
Her major conformation flaws would be she's straight through her hind legs, long pasterns and she's either still slightly bum high or mildly downhill.

So far I've looked at a lot of Warmblood type stallions (my top choices being Airborn and Ramiro B so far) but I wanted some other options if anyone has any as I can't seem to find any nice stallions that are smaller! 

Sorry this is so long &#128514;

Thanks.


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## EQUIDAE (9 August 2016)

I'd just buy a 3yo - cheaper in the long run and more guarantees.


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## EP2504 (9 August 2016)

I don't want to buy something, that's the point in me breeding. She's a cracking horse and only 6 so she's sadly wasted due to injury so I want a foal from her.


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## EQUIDAE (9 August 2016)

Your choice but you may not get what you want - it's a huge gamble. Do uou have the facilities to keep a foal?


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## AdorableAlice (9 August 2016)

EQUIDAE said:



			Your choice but you may not get what you want - it's a huge gamble. Do uou have the facilities to keep a foal?
		
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Rude, why always assume members asking questions are idiots, many of us are not.


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## AdorableAlice (9 August 2016)

EP2504 said:



			Im looking to breed from by thoroughbred mare next year but I'm stuck on stallion choices. 
She's 17hh and quite fine and long all over, by Hernando out of Step With Style, and ideally I want something smaller (to make no more than 16hh- obviously I'm aware however that it's luck of the draw) and a bit stockier, not exactly stocky but doesn't look like a slight breeze would push them over. 
I want to produce something for affiliated eventing and just a general fun horse but there are too many stallions to choose from! 
Her major conformation flaws would be she's straight through her hind legs, long pasterns and she's either still slightly bum high or mildly downhill.

So far I've looked at a lot of Warmblood type stallions (my top choices being Airborn and Ramiro B so far) but I wanted some other options if anyone has any as I can't seem to find any nice stallions that are smaller! 

Sorry this is so long &#55357;&#56834;

Thanks.
		
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Have a look at this link to the leading evhttp://www.britisheventing.com/library-media/documents/Top_50_Sires_All_TimeV3.pdfent 
horse sires. 

I looked at Sirens Missile a few years ago and liked what I saw.  In my opinion the more quality blood in an event horse the better and if you can combine the quality with bone and substance you have a reasonable chance of getting a nice athletic competition horse.

Good luck in whatever you choose to do.  Obviously there is  risk involved but there is a lot of pleasure and satisfaction to be had from breeding and rearing your own horse from a mare that means a lot to you.


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## EP2504 (9 August 2016)

I'm aware it's a huge gamble but it's one I'm willing to make. 
Of course I have the facilities, otherwise I wouldn't even consider it.


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## EP2504 (9 August 2016)

This is brilliant, thank you! 
And thank you for your support! She's my horse of a life time but she's only 6 and we've just been told she can never work again so it'd be nice to get something positive out of such bad news


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## Spiderman (9 August 2016)

Have messaged you. Amour G has been used very successfully on TB mares to do the job you're after. Two different newmarket vets have used him and been so pleased with their foals. they both came back for reapeat breedings.


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## Kathy657 (9 August 2016)

Ramiro B would be a good choice. With a TB mare you can go any way you want, WB  bred for SJ or  Dressage or Irish. Whatever you choose maybe you need to pick a stallion with good hing leg conformation but I'm sure you know that.
We used Diarado on our mare. He doesn't throw big. The mare is a bit long but the filly is shorter coupled and also has better movement.


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## EP2504 (10 August 2016)

Have replied, thanks &#128522;


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## rebeccag (10 August 2016)

Have a look at a couple of our stallions (you'd have to use AI for both though as one is now gelded and the other in Ireland).
Persiflage - went to Advanced. Might be too much blood for you as he's Anglo Arab (half/half). He's 15.3h. If you look around the site you can see some of his progeny.
www.biddesdenstud.co.uk/stallions/persiflage/
Incognito - currently competing and just stepped up to Novice - he has had a few very attractive progeny already. Good attitudes but the oldest ones are only just being backed now. He's by Indoctro and about 15.2h. 
www.biddesdenstud.co.uk/stallions/incognito/


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## cundlegreen (10 August 2016)

I'm not going to blow my stallion's trumpet on here unlike some posters (spiderman, I don't mean you!) but here are some photos of a welsh D stallion to TB mares. The black horse is out of a sprint bred mare, and the bay, and chestnut out of distance TB mares. The bay was top event foal at his futurity, and had the highest vet mark of the series, then won all four county show outings as a yearling. The chestnut is out of a badly conformed mare in all respects, and jumped clear and was placed at this year's Badminton grassroots Championships. The black is very successful at BE Novice standard, and has jumped DC's at the Novice regional Finals. They all come out at 15.2hh to 16.00hh....



















https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mH_DOQYzRAM


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## Asha (10 August 2016)

The eventers I know all swear by Ramiro B, particularly with a TB mare. From what they tell me he stamps his stock well and all have great attitudes. 

They all sold him to me that well that I took the plunge and used him on one of mine. 

Happy stallion shopping , and good luck


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## Tetrarch 1911 (10 August 2016)

I like the Sec D sired foals very much. Plenty of scope, nicely made, and should have plenty of performance longevity. She's a big, big girl, so I'm sure you'd get a decently sized youngster.


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## Alec Swan (10 August 2016)

EP2504 said:



			I&#8230;&#8230;..
She's 17hh and quite fine and long all over, by Hernando out of Step With Style, and ideally I want something smaller &#8230;&#8230;..

Thanks.
		
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Taking nothing away from the other suggestions,  I suspect that I'd lean towards the points made by cundlegreen.  Some of the nicest horses arrive by the most unlikely route!  A welsh Section D?  Why not?  Newmarket may well be too far to consider travelling for you,  but SallyF on here (Groomsbridge Stud) had the most delightful little Connemara stallion standing with her,  he had competed and had points,  and she may well have frozen semen in storage.  We too had a very tall TB mare,  and how I wished that we'd used him.  The mare was PTS because that was the deal with the stud who gifted her too us,  but I wish to this day that we'd had a last foal.

The mare that you describe may not be the ideal 'stamp' of a mare to breed from to produce,  say,  a top class event horse when put to the top flight event stallions,  but put to a horse of 'lesser' (?!!) standing,  so her progeny may very well surprise not just you,  but the onlookers too!  Her greatest attribute seems to be her willingness to work and contribute,  and by reducing the size of the stallion,  certainly doesn't mean that he will replicate himself and give you a pony,  but that because of her available space she will most likely produce you something at around the 16hh that you're looking for.

Go on,  do it and what ever you choose,  let us know the outcome please! 

Alec.


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## Dowjones (10 August 2016)

If you want something at max 16hh and to add s bit of substance what about a nice Connemara stallion? Loads out there that are talented enough to produce something to event.


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## Crugeran Celt (10 August 2016)

Have you considered a Welsh D,  some beautiful stallions out there and TB/Welsh crosses usually make fantastic allround horses.  Some may be a little long backed but you could look for a more compact type and it shouldn't produce too heavy an off spring.  I have one a mare I bred 23 years ago but out of a Sect d mare to a TB stallion, bit opinionated but a beautiful horse. Good luck and looking forward to seeing the photos of your foal.


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## rebeccag (10 August 2016)

sorry i didn't realise that wasn't the done thing. just thought they both perhaps fitted a type she wanted.


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## rebeccag (10 August 2016)

but also if you're thinking pony you might also consider a Connemara stallion - they can be fantastic jumpers. I think Portersize Just a Jif is 1/2 Connie....


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## Goldenstar (10 August 2016)

If you wanted a big horse I would recommend looking at a son of Jumbo but I think it's likely you would get a very large horse .
Would you consider a Connemara ?


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## Clodagh (11 August 2016)

rebeccag said:



			sorry i didn't realise that wasn't the done thing. just thought they both perhaps fitted a type she wanted.
		
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I don't think that was aimed at you, I may be wrong but there is a poster on here who recommends their stallion for every mare, I assume it was aimed at them. (And they haven't (yet) anyway. 

I like connie x, Templebready Fear Bui would be my choice, but he might be dead/infertile by now, does he have any entire sons standing I wonder?


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## SueBrowne (11 August 2016)

Clodagh said:



			I don't think that was aimed at you, I may be wrong but there is a poster on here who recommends their stallion for every mare, I assume it was aimed at them. (And they haven't (yet) anyway. 

I like connie x, Templebready Fear Bui would be my choice, but he might be dead/infertile by now, does he have any entire sons standing I wonder?
		
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Glad to see people suggesting Connemaras. We have Glencarrig Dolphin, he is throwing fabulous stock from TBs. Has won at BE100 and was 6th in his first Novice the other day.  www.glencarrigdolphin.co.uk


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## Diamore (11 August 2016)

If you were looking for more substance, you cant go wrong with an ID and get a super ISH!

Avanti Amorous Archie was my pick for my TB mare, have a super 5yo that is winning everything in sight, and super temperament and trainability.


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## Alec Swan (11 August 2016)

Diamore said:



			If you were looking for more substance, you cant go wrong with an ID and get a super ISH!

&#8230;&#8230;.. .
		
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The OP has a mare standing at 17hh.  Should she use an ID with the genetics if not its own height to consider,  then the resultant foal,  when it's finished growing would be highly likely to exceed the desired 16hh.

Alec.


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## EP2504 (11 August 2016)

I have considered Irish draughts for my mare but she's a big mare herself and I'm not exactly tall so although I want a stallion that has more substance than her (she's a bit spindly bless her!) , I don't want ideally to produce something that would be bigger than her (she was 15.2 and 4 when I bought her and now she's 17hh at 6 so she wasn't exactly ideal haha) and a lot of the ID stallions I've seen and liked are very big, however I'll check out the stallion you've suggested and bare him in mind, thank you


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## EP2504 (11 August 2016)

Ideally I don't want big, she was only meant to make 16hh at the most and I'm only 5ft2 haha! 
I've thought about connemaras but haven't really seen anything I liked and I want something that would improve her paces and I just haven't found a Connemara that I feel could do that. 
Thank you though


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## EP2504 (11 August 2016)

Thank you for your reply, both your boys are lovely and a preferred height however they're both just too fine and as she practically has twigs for legs as it is, a cross between the two might mean the foals legs snap as soon as they stand up! Haha


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## EP2504 (11 August 2016)

I never really thought of crossing with a section d, even though I've always been a massive Welsh cob fab, and it's definitely something I'd look into. I always put them out of my mind because I waned something more sport horse type but from the pictures you've posted, clearly that is something that's achievable, thank you


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## Clodagh (11 August 2016)

A D cross should give you flashier paces as well. I loved it when I was stallion looking, there is so much out there!


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## cundlegreen (11 August 2016)

EP2504 said:



			I never really thought of crossing with a section d, even though I've always been a massive Welsh cob fab, and it's definitely something I'd look into. I always put them out of my mind because I waned something more sport horse type but from the pictures you've posted, clearly that is something that's achievable, thank you
		
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Considering my boy is an old fashioned D with lots of feather and bone, he gets very quality types off all mares. They all have good bone without being coarse, and can, and do, turn their hooves to everything. Do make sure though, if considering a welsh cob, that it has performed, or got offspring performing under saddle. A lot of D stallions are in hand animals, and they have too much knee action to make top sports horses IMO. You should be looking for freedom of shoulder and hock action to compliment your mare.


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## Tiddlypom (11 August 2016)

I've had two cracking TB/sec Ds, one by the TB, one by the Sec D. Both around 15.2 to 15.3, good active paces, really nice types with a lot about them .


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## Meowy Catkin (11 August 2016)

Something like these boys, to produce an anglo-arab. It's a shame that this cross has fallen out of favour as it really is a very tried and tested one that produces excellent athletic animals. IIRC, your mare has had back trouble (but your Vet has approved her for breeding from), if so I really would want a compact stallion that's very strong in that region.

http://www.mukhtaribneternity.co.uk/gallery/

http://www.hengsthaltung-kathmann.de/cms/front_content.php?client=1&lang=2&idart=288


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## GemG (11 August 2016)

Faracat said:



			Something like these boys, to produce an anglo-arab. It's a shame that this cross has fallen out of favour as it really is a very tried and tested one that produces excellent athletic animals. IIRC, your mare has had back trouble (but your Vet has approved her for breeding from), if so I really would want a compact stallion that's very strong in that region.

http://www.mukhtaribneternity.co.uk/gallery/

http://www.hengsthaltung-kathmann.de/cms/front_content.php?client=1&lang=2&idart=288

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Ooo...  If I had more time/£ and didn't have what I've already got, I would love a good AA.   My sort of horse.   

Exciting times OP! Have a really good think about what you really want in your end product (foal!). Good luck.


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## Lgd (12 August 2016)

Worth a look at the Sports Pony studbook. They grade stallions into their studbook and go up to 15.2hh. Some of the smaller horses or warmblood ponies will put some substance in but drop the height.

http://www.sportpony.org.uk/stallions.shtml

A little off the wall but have a look at one of the smaller Knabstrupper stallions. That would put some substance in but also put better paces on.
One small one I can think of is Holmegards Bastian, he is only 157cm, SPSS graded and is competing PSG, and has a big pop. I've seen him out and about and he is a perfect gent with a really nice temperament.


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## Tetrarch 1911 (13 August 2016)

Although, looking back, the OP was considering a coloured horse, and perhaps that is where their real interest lies. There is a great selection of coloured horses all over the world, including Quarter Horses with some interesting frame overo patterns and colours. There are coloured warmblood stallions about, but I find a lot of them are over big and have short, upright pasterns. 

I'm no expert on colour genetics or QH either, but perhaps some of our resident colour genetics experts can help on that one. I've seen a few TB x QH and they've been rather nice, and not too big, either!


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## EP2504 (14 August 2016)

I'm not particularly interested in a coloured horse, have just seen a few I like, but thank you


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## Alec Swan (14 August 2016)

EP2504 said:



			I'm not particularly interested in a coloured horse, have just seen a few I like, but thank you 

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You've raised an interesting point.  For the last 30 years I've been advised that 'Everyone wants coloured horses' and I wonder why.  John Whitaker jumped a rather splendid stallion which stood at stud,  so the horse may have been considered the exception,  but I still believe that if we breed for colour,  we take our eye away from the points upon which we should focus.

Alec.


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## Tetrarch 1911 (14 August 2016)

I completely agree, Alec. I have to say there are very few coloured horses that really float my boat, even though it's lovely to see horses and ponies come in such an amazing array of colours. You have to look beyond the colour at the conformation and ability of the horse. I believe this is being addressed, and I completely support colour-blindness in the show and performance world, but a horse with glaring faults and an inability to carry out the job for which it was bred no matter what its colour should be avoided. 

However, I do admit to a soft spot for the perlino Akhal Teke stallion Kambarbay. 

On the point of AAs - I succumbed and my big TB mare by Generous ex a mare by Halling is booked to the Arab stallion H Tobago ...


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## angrovestud (14 August 2016)

Hi There 
I have sold my stallion so I think I can safely say he can produce wonderful jumping progeny with loads of ability, his daughter is in training now for National hunt she has a great pop like her dad and we have 2 more daughters at home here. please take a look at the link he is just 15.1hh 82.5% TB and you can race his foals or event they will all be coloured as he is homozygous for the tobiano gene   http://www.stallionsonline.co.uk/stallion_64657.html


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## Clodagh (14 August 2016)

Tetrarch 1911 said:



			However, I do admit to a soft spot for the perlino Akhal Teke stallion Kambarbay. 

On the point of AAs - I succumbed and my big TB mare by Generous ex a mare by Halling is booked to the Arab stallion H Tobago ...
		
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I love Akhal tekes, and I am huge colour snob, horses should be bay, chestnut or grey...although I like dun/buckskin and roan...but patches!? Not for me.
H Tobago is sadly dead so I assume you mean frozen?


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## Tetrarch 1911 (14 August 2016)

Yes, frozen. Such a loss. I booked her for early 2017, so I'm hoping that I get my Tobagoling. There is limited semen available, so I will probably only get the one chance. Like the OP, I have a big mare and I wanted to go none-TB with her for her first foal. Luckily she's sound, and was originally part of the GB horseball team, so although she was a slow racehorse she is actually very agile for such a big girl. I had thought about Kambarbay, but as my mare is chestnut I think I would be guaranteed a palomino. Don't know if I want a palomino. 

I would agree that the AA is an under-appreciated cross at the moment, but I'm quite a fan. I'm not a lover of WBs, so I'm quite limited as to which direction I want to go in. 

To be honest, longevity of working life means a lot to me, and I don't want to breed a horse that might not last beyond 8 or 9, which is why I'm such a fan of TBs. Arabs are also tough and long-lived, and I also like the bigger natives as a cross. My horsey hero was Marian Coakes' little showjumper Stroller, all 14.1 of him. He was a TB/Conn cross, won Hickstead and was the only pony to compete in the Olympics, winning a silver. I remember him jumping 7' in the puissance once. He was competing at 20, and died at 36. What a horse!


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## rebeccag (15 August 2016)

Clodagh said:



			I don't think that was aimed at you, I may be wrong but there is a poster on here who recommends their stallion for every mare, I  assume it was aimed at them. (And they haven't (yet) anyway. 

I like connie x, Templebready Fear Bui would be my choice, but he might be dead/infertile by now, does he have any entire sons standing I wonder?
		
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Phew I felt a bit admonished. Interested to hear what you're leaning towards. Of course I love an Anglo too and they can be great performance wise but you can get a big horse with that cross too....if you're interested in that you might look at the Arab Horse Society premium scheme.


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## Diamore (15 August 2016)

EP2504 said:



			I have considered Irish draughts for my mare but she's a big mare herself and I'm not exactly tall so although I want a stallion that has more substance than her (she's a bit spindly bless her!) , I don't want ideally to produce something that would be bigger than her (she was 15.2 and 4 when I bought her and now she's 17hh at 6 so she wasn't exactly ideal haha) and a lot of the ID stallions I've seen and liked are very big, however I'll check out the stallion you've suggested and bare him in mind, thank you 

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sorry missed the mare height!
Equally lots of nice 15.2 ID stallions!


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## Irish gal (15 August 2016)

I wouldn't underestimate a good Connie stallion, it's a great cross with TB, hard to beat really for an eventer. It's just a matter of investigating to get the real movement. But it is there. I recently sold an overheight Connie, and am getting lovely photos now of him winning dressage competitions in the UK. He won his first ever competition and has won every weekend since. He's by Leag, don't know a whole lot about him but there are some great Connie stallions out there. Might be worth checking out the Cliften stallion parade on YouTube for ideas. I know they look quite ponyish but the resulting foal won't be, they make a really great cross with a TB.


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## EP2504 (16 August 2016)

I agree, although I quite like coloured horses, I would never breed specifically for colour, there are far too many people around doing that and yes alright you get an interesting looking horse with regards to colour, you also get a not-so-fun interesting horse with regards to conformation defaults! 
I would always judge a coloured horse as if it were a solid colour


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## Doormouse (16 August 2016)

Have you looked at Thorpley Stud, Bruce Mckim. They have 2 really nice pure ID stallions and one part ID, Cos Me Is Black. He has the most amazing temperament combined with real talent. He has done Open Team Chasing one day and then a RDA lesson the next.  Personally, although good confirmation is a must for me the temperament is incredibly important, if they are not kind and willing you are going nowhere however beautiful and talented they are.


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