# best way to build topline to a horse not in work??



## buddy's mummy (20 November 2013)

as title?? any miracle feeds..he is fine condition wise but lacking topline/muscle.


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## RaynerK (20 November 2013)

Blue chip, always does the trick.


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## lannerch (20 November 2013)

You can't build muscle just by feeding ..... Any feed sorry


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## McCauley (21 November 2013)

Can i ask Why you want to 'build topline' on a horse that not in work??


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## xgemmax (21 November 2013)

'Topline' is muscle, so the only way to build it up is by working the horse. If you 'feed for topline' then it will just be fat and not muscle!


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## hnmisty (21 November 2013)

xgemmax said:



			'Topline' is muscle, so the only way to build it up is by working the horse. If you 'feed for topline' then it will just be fat and not muscle! 

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You mean I can't feed Barry something to make him fit enough to get round Badminton next year? Damn


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## dianchi (21 November 2013)

RaynerK said:



			Blue chip, always does the trick.
		
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Actually blue chips trick is to put water on top on muscle to give the appearance of bigger muscles.

Only work can build up muscle!


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## Buddy'sMum (21 November 2013)

xgemmax said:



			'Topline' is muscle, so the only way to build it up is by working the horse. If you 'feed for topline' then it will just be fat and not muscle! 

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^this^ 
but in fairness, how many ads for feeds do you see which claim to improve topline? So no wonder people think you can feed for topline.

OP - lots of carrot stretches will help.


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## Archie73 (21 November 2013)

Turn out on a hill?


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## RaynerK (21 November 2013)

dianchi said:



			Actually blue chips trick is to put water on top on muscle to give the appearance of bigger muscles.

Only work can build up muscle!
		
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I understand that only work can build real muscle but care to expand on the first bit? I wasn't aware Bluechip caused water retention??


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## buddy's mummy (25 November 2013)

he is lame so on bute trial with vet at mo so only light hacking work...and as I am working going to work in dark and finish in dark - he doesnt get worked during the week only gets ridden 2 days a week..so need to build some topline..could poss do some lungeing I guess....


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## JillA (25 November 2013)

I'm watching this with interest because I have a chicken and egg situation - Reg doesn't have enough top line to wear a saddle, although after several weeks on good grass (from September onwards) he has now covered his ribs really well - and isn't hungry because he doesn't clean up his feeds in one sitting, takes 2. So how to build that muscle without riding, and with very little time to lunge or long rein? Is it possible or does he remain a field ornament until the spring.


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## buddy's mummy (25 November 2013)

buds is looking to be a field ornament til spring!


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## Lucky Lady (25 November 2013)

Product called muscle mass is brilliant and when you get to your desired condition just need to manage it. I feed Sarazens, good quality feed.


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## chestnut cob (25 November 2013)

JillA said:



			I'm watching this with interest because I have a chicken and egg situation - Reg doesn't have enough top line to wear a saddle, although after several weeks on good grass (from September onwards) he has now covered his ribs really well - and isn't hungry because he doesn't clean up his feeds in one sitting, takes 2. So how to build that muscle without riding, and with very little time to lunge or long rein? Is it possible or does he remain a field ornament until the spring.
		
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Could he be hungry but not liking his feed enough?  Monty was like that - always hungry but he detested the Simple Systems feed I gave him.  Would kick over the bucket in disgust and walk away.  Put him back onto a ready-made feed (Safe & Sound), and he'd eat it up in a moment.

You won't put on muscle without the work, though you can obviously put on weight.  I switched the new pony onto Dengie Healthy Tummy at the end of the summer and wow is all I can say.  The difference in him, muscle-wise, is incredible.  Within 2 or 3 weeks his topline improved and because he's building muscle in the right places now, he finds work much easier.  He isn't a particularly good doer so he isn't carrying any excess weight/fat (I'm having to feed linseed to make sure he doesn't lose weight, and will be getting Speedibeet soon too), but he's looking really fit and much stronger.


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## Buddy'sMum (25 November 2013)

buddy's mummy said:



			he is lame so on bute trial with vet at mo so only light hacking work...and as I am working going to work in dark and finish in dark - he doesnt get worked during the week only gets ridden 2 days a week..so need to build some topline..could poss do some lungeing I guess....
		
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The are no shortcuts to developing topline, no miracle feeds or supplements (although you do need to make sure your horse is not getting enough good quality protein to meet his daily needs). Topline is muscle and the only way to develop muscle is through lots of careful exercise. There are exercises you can do to help strengthen your horse's back muscles though, eg carrot stretches, belly lifts, asking them to back up, walking up and down hills, polework, etc.
If your horse is lame, lungeing is probably not advisable. Check with your vet.


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## buddy's mummy (25 November 2013)

vet said to work him as on bute trial.


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## sueonmull (25 November 2013)

What about also introducing a bit of 'old fashioned' banging into his grooming sessions?


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## buddy's mummy (25 November 2013)

sueonmull said:



			What about also introducing a bit of 'old fashioned' banging into his grooming sessions?
		
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?? how?


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## sueonmull (25 November 2013)

Found this on youtube  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84Zkv3f6BYU, also lots of things come up if you Google horse, grooming, banging. I think strapping is the same thing.


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## chestnut cob (25 November 2013)

sueonmull said:



			What about also introducing a bit of 'old fashioned' banging into his grooming sessions?
		
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Strapping is brilliant!


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## Justturnedfifty (25 November 2013)

buddy's mummy said:



			?? how?
		
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Hello, can I ask how old Buddy is? Earlier you mentioned he is going to be a field ornament for a few months, is this due to us being in the Winter season and time/daylight is not on your side? Is it because his lameness could mean turnout recuperation? Is he a youngster that would benefit from a few more growing months? Are you actually looking for top line or are you looking to increase his weight, put more cover on him? I am wondering whether you are confusing top line with 'fattening' up? If he has a poor neck then no amount of good old fashioned 'banging' will help because the muscle quality will not be good enough. Need more information because your post is getting more confusing!


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## MadBlackLab (25 November 2013)

only work can help top-line. No amount of feed will put muscle on. Strapping will help but not on its own


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## sueonmull (25 November 2013)

I agree MBL strapping alone isn't a solution but used in conjunction with the exercises suggested by Buddy's Mum ( eg carrot stretches, belly lifts, asking them to back up, walking up and down hills, polework, etc.) every little helps.


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## dianchi (25 November 2013)

RaynerK said:



			I understand that only work can build real muscle but care to expand on the first bit? I wasn't aware Bluechip caused water retention??
		
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I bought my mare blue chip as she looked a bit lean and wanted to help her, two days in after feeding blue chip and massive swollen legs, left no definition on the leg at all. Vet out as thought it was a major problem, went through it and explained the feed and pin pointed it immediately.
There was a test done it but I cant find the docs that got posted online at the moment, but the immediate appearance Improvement from the Original is from water retention


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## flirtygerty (25 November 2013)

Can I ask what a belly lift is, my mind is in overdrive trying to picture it


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## Achinghips (26 November 2013)

It's annoying when they loose muscle due to enforced rest. Lots of good ideas here, also feed hay from ground and do all those stretching exercises suggested .... But reduce your expectations so you can have a good worry free Christmas and however long you intend keeping out of work

Resign  yourself to the start of the long slog to get it back when back in work . Out of work you can't even keep them ticking over properly, let alone "build topline"


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## Buddy'sMum (26 November 2013)

flirtygerty said:



			Can I ask what a belly lift is, my mind is in overdrive trying to picture it
		
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 here you go
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFHeHGF-bew&feature=youtube_gdata_player


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## Buddy'sMum (26 November 2013)

buddy's mummy said:



			vet said to work him as on bute trial.
		
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Yes but depending on the cause of the lameness, lungeing tight circles might make things much worse.


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## flirtygerty (26 November 2013)

Thanks BM, things are a lot clearer now


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## buddy's mummy (27 November 2013)

Justturnedfifty said:



			Hello, can I ask how old Buddy is? Earlier you mentioned he is going to be a field ornament for a few months, is this due to us being in the Winter season and time/daylight is not on your side? Is it because his lameness could mean turnout recuperation? Is he a youngster that would benefit from a few more growing months? Are you actually looking for top line or are you looking to increase his weight, put more cover on him? I am wondering whether you are confusing top line with 'fattening' up? If he has a poor neck then no amount of good old fashioned 'banging' will help because the muscle quality will not be good enough. Need more information because your post is getting more confusing!
		
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Buddy is 15yro irish cob type. he is off work as such but vet advised for him to be lightly worked as is on a bute trial due to unknown lameness few issues (not right)  Bone scan is next...he is absolutely fine weight wise, but where he has had a poorly fitted saddle before I had him he has lost muscle and topline. hence wanting to build it back up.


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## DonskiWA (27 November 2013)

Think of it this way; this would be the same as us wanting an abdominal 6 pack without working out. It's impossible to get by diet alone


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## Goldenstar (27 November 2013)

Archie73 said:



			Turn out on a hill?
		
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That's the old fashioned way but it would help.


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## buddy's mummy (28 November 2013)

he is sort of on a hill...


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## Busybusybusy (30 November 2013)

JillA said:



			I'm watching this with interest because I have a chicken and egg situation - Reg doesn't have enough top line to wear a saddle, although after several weeks on good grass (from September onwards) he has now covered his ribs really well - and isn't hungry because he doesn't clean up his feeds in one sitting, takes 2. So how to build that muscle without riding, and with very little time to lunge or long rein? Is it possible or does he remain a field ornament until the spring.
		
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After my horse went lame he lost all his muscle - it turned out that he also had kissing spines and was operated on, so I have not been able to ride him - he has gone from looking like a hat rack to building muscle all along his topline. I have done this by mainly walking in hand every day, plus long reining - I don't lunge him as he's an idiot, plus I don't want to do tight circles with him. I am now also walking with a Pilates band round his quarters which makes him work across his back, plus do carrot stretches and tummy lifts with him, which the physio recommended. 
I do feed him quite a lot, he has as lib hay, cool stance copra, micronised linseed and plain straw chaff, plus vitamins & minerals - he has put all of his topline on with minimal ridden work - I had started riding him (for 4 weeks in walk only) but due to his new muscle, his saddle now does not fit & I need to get a new one, so decided to wait until I get him refitted before riding him again.


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## k_sandy93 (1 December 2013)

buddy's mummy said:



			as title?? any miracle feeds..he is fine condition wise but lacking topline/muscle.
		
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I understand what people are saying about 'topline' comes from work not feed, but I have a conemarra that I do BE with, so during the season he's worked fairly hard, most of his training being flatwork whether that be ridden or pessoa, he always had incredible condition, well developed muscles and a shiny coat, but no matter how much work we did, his neck naturally looks very weak (ie, not muscly and looked like he had no top line). I stuck him on a bag of Blue Chip Original and the difference was incredible in his neck, he looked a lot more in proportion and really helped fill his neck out without putting any added weight on anywhere else!


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## EAST KENT (12 December 2013)

My problem,Irish Cob mare of 14 yrs,she had a bad do with laminitus last Feb,long period of box rest and eventually graduated turn out.During the summer she regained some weight ,her neck remained rather unmuscled.Now she is sound,out and on ad lib good meadow hay.I need to know if I would be OK feeding perhaps a balancer plus grass nuts and bran/chaff??These  balancer things are new territory to an old fashioned horse owner.I want her well,but not to risk Lami again.She hacks out a couple of times a week,but is ribby at the moment
 Obviously worming is due,it is the same as last year,for a cob she is hard to keep condition on


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## _GG_ (12 December 2013)

First of all, don't use strapping/banging on a cold horse. The horse should be warm, having already worked before you do this and it is something you need to start small and increase repetitions gradually. Horses can suffer muscle damage from having this done by inexperienced hands on cold and tight muscles. It is an extremely useful tool for keeping condition on horses that are not in work, I should know as my old mare Teasle came off 15 months full box rest looking pretty much the same as she did going into it working at Advanced Medium. I did it twice a day and each time took an hour and a half. It took so long because I would have to manually warm up each area before strapping it. That involved a lot of work using my hands to get initial heat in, then massage, them heat again and when nice and warm and relaxed, I would strap the muscle and then rub down again afterwards before moving on. She loved it and it worked well with a box rest horse in that it was 3 hours a day of contact and stimulation to break the monotony of it. 

For work, I honestly believe hacking builds top line better than any other work, lunging included. Lunging, especially in side reins or other gadgets is great for putting muscle on the neck, but not so great elsewhere. Hacking on varied terrain with the horse having his head where he/she wants it has been the best way I have ever found to get proper topline started. School work just then adds to it. 

Lunging is not something I would advise with a suspect lameness to be honest.


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## amandap (12 December 2013)

Buddy'sMum said:



			Yes but depending on the cause of the lameness, lungeing tight circles might make things much worse.
		
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I agree. Working when you have removed or dulled the horses defense against further injury ie. pain is not something I agree with even though it is commonly prescribed by vets. 
eta. Obviously a carefully managed rehab program is a different matter

I do think a decent balancer containing lysine especially is a good idea. Lysine is the first limiting amino acid (protein most often deficient in grass and hays). So I can see how a quality balancer might help a bit.


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