# Trakehner Dressage Stallions



## Tempi (22 November 2010)

Hi all - can anyone suggest some trakehner dressage stallions please?  To go to a trakehner mare who is quite long backed, needs more ''power'' behind/motoring hind leg.  Stallion must have a good temprement and rideability as mare can be quirky.  She has bred one foal already (shes not mine before anyone asks, asking on behalf of a friend).  I would say she needs more wither/shoulder but she does have good paces. Owner wants pink papered foal hence needs to be trakehner stallion.

Owner has been looking at Kostolany lines - I have suggest Hotline who i think will compliment her mare really well. 

I am not sure on mares breeding but think it is SJ lines so any suggestions at the moment will just be passed on.

Any ideas please?


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## eventrider23 (22 November 2010)

If you want pure Trak, you can still use Kostolony himself I believe via frozen, as well as Gribaldi, his son.  If you want British owned stallions, some of the best are owned by Sian Prosser Reade here in Sussex (altho some stand abroad): http://www.trakehners.co.uk/

Another UK based Kostolony descended Trak stallion is Holme Park Krug whose dam sire is Kostolony.

Other stallions of note in the UK are: http://www.trakehnerbreeders.com/stallions_uk_2010.htm

Plus also Garuda K, whose movement is phenomenal and is just in general known for his outstanding qualities.

Overseas:
*Abentanz* - http://www.elitestallions.co.uk/index.php?id=13&singleid=243&L=0 who clearly jumps as well!

Plus there are many many others I couldn't begin to think of but those are just a few to start with.


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## Tempi (22 November 2010)

Thank you for all those.

Have you heard of Contis out of interest? I just wondered what he was like as i like the look of him.


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## Halfstep (22 November 2010)

Can't get better than Kostolany!  I love that horse. 

Hotline - I know one horse by him and on that, I would be wary. She is a nutter. I know that might be a fluke or down to the dam, but it is enough to put me off. Not trainable at all, but it does move like stink.


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## Tempi (22 November 2010)

Interesting re Hotline - i know someone who worked at Blu Hors for a while and said he was a dream to handle and ride.  However wouldnt want to risk making the mare hot as she is very quirky.

Owner loves Kostolany so maybe he is the way to go then!


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## Halfstep (22 November 2010)

Kostolany is Osk's granddad


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## Tempi (22 November 2010)

Ahhhh, i thought so


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## SAMgirl (22 November 2010)

Oooh I don't know I am quite a fan of Hotline too (great minds!!)... Although I haven't really researched him or anything - just going off what I have seen and the horses I have ridden.  Interestingly though I have only ridden a couple of Hotlines and they kind of support what Halfstep says - they were pretty sharp, but I do think very trainable!

I agree with everyone else though Kostolany is a good choice! 

I am not 100% sure how the Trakehner studbook operates but it would be an educated guess to assume that your friend doesn't necessarily need to use a Trakehner stallion to get the full paper work.  Might help widen your search (read that as: more pretty ponies to look at) - thats also useful to know if you wanted to find a UK based stallion for fresh as there are more to pick from if you are open to TB's Hans, KPWN, Oldenburgs etc


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## eventrider23 (22 November 2010)

If the owner loves Kostolony and that is the line she likes then she could do no better than go to the man himself...I mean not meany can say their foal would be a peternal sibling anymore to the likes of Gribaldi, etc so I would personally go for that.

Contis is lovely.  Every account of his temperament has been fabulous and he was I believe champ of his grading, however he has been aimed at an eventing career and whilst there have been some highlights, his record is too hit and miss (with more miss) for my liking.  He doesn't seem to throw the BEST (although by far not the worst) dressage scores but he consistently has fences down SJ and his XC record is very poor, with lots of stops, eliminations and a few falls.....not encouraging in my eyes.  He seems to have done ok at the lower levels but on stepping up a level, the faults have become more apparant.

Another one to throw into the mix is Fleetwater Opposition.....????


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## eventrider23 (22 November 2010)

Info on Kostolony although I don't think Muschamp still represent him in the UK and so might be wisest to enquire directly and find out who his agent in UK is.
http://www.gestuet-haemelschenburg.de/html/e_kostol.html

In addition, if you are unsure of using him still, here is the most lovely story about him and his owners......
http://www.gestuet-haemelschenburg.de/html/e_gebkos.html


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## Tempi (22 November 2010)

Sam - I have given her some other stallions to look at (Sir Frederic was one of them  ) - but she seems to think she needs to have a trakehner to get pink papers?  I might suggest to her that she contact the trakehner studbook and find out?

(Bloss is doing well by the way - very fat and hairy and pleased that she is no longer in work, lol!!)


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## Tempi (22 November 2010)

Eventrider23 - Fleetwater is definitely too quirky, all the ones i have ridden have enjoyed standing on their back legs (which this mare can do when she so wishes hence the temprement is very important!)

Thank you for all the info on Kostolony - i shall pass it all on to her


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## SAMgirl (22 November 2010)

Tempi said:



			Sam - I have given her some other stallions to look at (Sir Frederic was one of them  ) - but she seems to think she needs to have a trakehner to get pink papers?  I might suggest to her that she contact the trakehner studbook and find out?

(Bloss is doing well by the way - very fat and hairy and pleased that she is no longer in work, lol!!)
		
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Working is for peasants!!!!!  Not for HRHs!!!!! 

She might be right - it maybe it is different for Traks than other WBs!  I had a quick look on the website and it said something about only using English TBs, Arabian TBs and Arabs I think?  But it could work the other way instead (assuming she is not particularly bothered about having a Trak but wants full pink papers from another WBFSH studbook - i.e. Hanoverian - although I do accept some people would consider it sacrilege to deviate from a pure breed).

I am glad Bloss is not having to work it is beneath her!!


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## _jetset_ (22 November 2010)

The lady who has Kostolany is so lovely too... couldn't be more helpful!

He is definitely top of my list for The Duchess


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## trakehnersrock! (22 November 2010)

I can't be of any help but just wanted to say this thread is so interesting and informative - I shall know where to come for information if and when we decide to breed from Perzka!


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## Partoow (22 November 2010)

i think that the blood line of Garuda K is pretty exellent and the boy himself is lovely. I have seen some nice offspring too.
A very reliable bloodline rather like the Kostolany, Munchausen line is a good type with exellent rideability.
If its an eventer you want then Gravenstoltz is top of the list for me.


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## Halfstep (22 November 2010)

One more for the mix: Silver Moon. 
http://www.superiorequinesires.com/stallions/silvermoon.htm

Sire of Matine. I don't know why he isn't used more (probably because he's gray) but I've not heard a bad word about him or his progeny. Out of the sons of Kostolany, I'd use him over Gribaldi or Polansky.


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## Lgd (22 November 2010)

Friend bred a Silvermoon colt this year and was so pleased with him (aprt from the balls  ) she has put the mare back in foal to try and get the grey filly she wants.

He is not homozygous grey either - she has a grey mare and got a chestnut colt!

I know she is delighted with his temperament and movement, he has now been sold to an eventing home (the mare is IDSH).


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## volatis (22 November 2010)

Is the mare graded with the TBF? For the foal to get Trakehner pink papers, then the mare needs to be graded and the stallion must be graded Trakehner too. She also has the option of grading the mare for example with BWBS or BHHS and using one of their stallions

But assuming she wants to stick with Trakehner, well there are a lot of choices LOL. 
So she wants work ethic, short coupled, and good hind leg mechanics.

Imperio http://www.hoerem.de/hengste/imperio/ will improve the frame and quicker hind leg. Really super horse but cant comment on how his offspring are under saddle yet. He is not a huge horse but very quality.

Axis (if you can get frozen as he is focusing on Grand Prix ridden career with Olympics in mind so no fresh next 2 years) will for sure give you a horse that loves to work, super strong frame, and they jump too LOL http://www.trakehners.co.uk/

Kostolony really had a temperament to die for and the Langels are lovely people who know their mare lines inside out and can really advise on what stallions they have that would suit. All their stallions would have to be frozen for the UK as they are not an EU station. 
http://www.gestuet-haemelschenburg.de/html/e_exclu.html - this horse Exclusiv is one of theirs that will really add power to the hind end and great trot mechanics. I bet he would be the best pick of their boys for this particular mare as they know he will produce what you need. Their young Kostolany son Saint Cyr might not give you as much power but would also be one to consider and is a son of Kostolany http://www.gestuet-haemelschenburg.de/html/e_saintc.html

Silvermoon for sure will add a better hind end conformation, and is proven in terms of soundness and performance and carries the Kostolany blood you were looking for, and the stud were very good to deal with although their website is not up at present.

I was very impressed with how the Gribaldi son All Inclusive has come on under saddle. Gives you the Kostolany sire line again, very good stud to work with and I think this is a star of the future. http://www.gestuet-tasdorf.de/tasdorf.php?go=hengste&sub=all_inclusive

(There are number of Hotlines here under saddle, all difficult - much as I love Hotline himself, I wouldnt use him after seeing this number of offspring)


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## Smile_and_Wave (22 November 2010)

I like Hotline but the ones i have seen are very nice but incredibly sharp horses, the Singing Stud has some really nice stallions but i think they have a tendancy to be more jumping horses

i think eligibility for pink papers depends on the society, my foal is AES pink papers but he is a random cross but they just wanted three generation or recorded breeding, although i know other societies are much more strict


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## stolensilver (22 November 2010)

I'm the one who used Silvermoon last year. He is very linebred to the great stallion Mahagoni (3x2) so has tight genetics and is very predictable in what he throws. All the Silvermoon's I've seen have had the same wonderful quarters and hind leg. If you watch a video of Matine her engine is the one you will get on your foal. My mare is back in foal to him again for this year and I'm praying for a filly. 

Other Trakehners I like are the Caprimond line which brings in Garuda K. Garuda is a lovely, lovely boy. Smart, sensitive, desperate to please and has outstanding paces. He's a nice size at 16.2 and has super conformation. 

Axis is fabulous but as Volatis said he isn't available fresh till after the 2012 Olympics. From the same stud (Bluewood) is the lovely Trocadero. He is by the same sire as Kostolany (Enrico Caruso) and passes on exceptional temperaments as well as plenty of talent. I saw a stallion yesterday who is Trocadero x Caprimond and he is absolutely stunning with a puppy dog temperament. He hasn't been put forward for grading yet but when he is he will go straight on my list of stallions to use.

A German stallion I really like is Kasimir. He is very talented, is linebred to another great Trakehner in Arogno so will be reliable in what he produces and has the most wonderful temperament. I really think temperament matters. Most of us can't cope with a fire breathing dragon. We want a horse who is easy and a pleasure to ride. IMHO all the above stallions can sire easy horses who also have loads of talent.


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## Tempi (23 November 2010)

Thank you everyone - some very informative replies which i found really interesting.  I have passed all the information on to my friend and shall let you know which stallion she decides on (or at least what her shortlist is!).


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## magic104 (23 November 2010)

Tempi said:



			Sam - I have given her some other stallions to look at (Sir Frederic was one of them  ) - but she seems to think she needs to have a trakehner to get pink papers?  I might suggest to her that she contact the trakehner studbook and find out?

(Bloss is doing well by the way - very fat and hairy and pleased that she is no longer in work, lol!!)
		
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That is because it is a closed book.  It would have to be either a Trak or an approved TB, AA or Arab these are the only blood lines permitted.  Caprimond is known for his good temperment & I used a son because of his temperment & movement.


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## JRR (23 November 2010)

Have a look at Tzigane P*b*. He is known to reliably shorten backs and passes on his incredible jump. However, since moving to Germany, his dressage talent has blossomed and he will be debuting at M level next year.

He stands at http://www.gestuet-majenfelderhof.de/hengste_taz_e.html


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## woodlander (24 November 2010)

I would thoroughly recommend Connery (the sire of Imperio) for temperament and type. He took time to mature but we have bred two and they are both horses that the total amateur could train. No big trots but really top canter. I would also agree with the Imperio recommend although he himself is a bit stressy. I think if you want a truly top sporting type they will always have that edge but for a winning regional horse trainability anad correct gaits is the thing.

We have a Hotline and she looks full on but is a joy to deal with but will let you know how the under saddle bit goes as we are just starting her.

We have also a couple of Buddenbrocks but they are professional types. I have also seen and liked the offspring from Pret a Porter. They seemed quite peaceable under saddle but I could be wrong, We love Caprimond and there was a v good colt this year in the Futurity by him. We shall use him next year on the dam of Wavavoom.


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## Flyingbuck (24 November 2010)

I have a Hotline colt foal out of a Medoc mare and I'm very pleased with him thus far and would recommend Hotline - my colt is very friendly and easy to deal with (the mare may have something to do with this as she is a very friendly type.)  - he loves being petted and kissed!
Here's hoping it translates into trainability later - however, imo, as well as the genetics, environment also plays a part. 

Have been given food for thought for a couple of my mares for next year on this thread - thanks  - but the frozen would rule some out for me.


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## trakehnersrock! (24 November 2010)

As I said before, this thread is SO interesting!
Stolensilver, my mare's great-great-grandsire is Arogno ( grandsire Partout and sire Monteverdi) so that was useful info, thank you


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## volatis (24 November 2010)

Woodlander - did you find Connery gave you enough hind end power (just bearing in mind what the OP was after) as although i agree he throws beautiful type and canter, I find some of his stock and that mother line, tend to need a little more explosive power behind. Be really interested in how he crossed on your mares, as I have 2 fillies very closely related to him on the dam's side, one who I am covering next season and looking for more power. 

Kasimir is a little sharp under saddle. i saw him warming up at the Bundesturnier and watched him closely as I love his sire line and although he went beautifully, the rider was a real pro and she worked hard to get the relaxation and submission she needed, and I remember him being like that when I saw him a year or two ago at one of the stallion shows.

Caprimond for sure gives super type and trainability but frozen semen isnt stellar and he wont ship chilled to Uk now, same with Hohenstein.


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## stolensilver (24 November 2010)

The German FN dressage stallion rankings have come out today. Several Trakehners are on it:

Hibiskus by Latimer. Score 151, reliability 90%
Hofrat by Gribaldi. Score 158, reliability 94%
Insterburg by Hohenstein. Score 151, reliability 89%
Munchhausen by Hohenstein. Score 160, reliability 96%

Munchhausen is the sire of Garuda K and has been close to the top of the FN rankings for several years despite not getting anywhere near as many mares as the fashionable stallions. I saw him in the ring at Neumunster along with his grandsire Caprimond (still under saddle and able to piaffe and passage at the amazing age of 25! What a legend!) Hohenstein (fabulous stallion and looking superb at 19 years old) and the young kid on the block Titiano. Personally I think Caprimond has the best hind limb mechanics for collection that I have ever seen. I would love to have a Caprimond mare! 

Woodlander I'm sure you know this already but Caprimond semen doesn't freeze well and also doesn't travel well, just like his son Hohenstein. If you want to get your mare in foal to him you are probably going to have to take her to his farm in Germany. He is a fabulous stallion and IMHO even better than his sons.


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## stolensilver (24 November 2010)

FWIW a stallion I'd avoid if I were breeding for an amateur market is Easy Game. He is HUGE 17hh+++ and despite being ridden by pros gives off an air of barely contained explosive power. He also has a more sloping pelvis than my ideal but it certainly works as the power he generates is eye watering. I think this stallion will become very, very popular and will sire World Cup horses. I also think I will never be brave enough to set foot in the stirrup of any of them. :lol: His son at this year's grading was hot and naughty too. 

The sire of my Trakehner mare is Le Rouge. I still haven't seen him in the flesh but have seen some of his babies and think they can be on the hot side too. My mare is fabulous to ride but she is sensitive and very forward and would not tolerate poor riding. She shares the same damline as Kasimir which is where I think the genes have come from that have tempered Le Rouge's pepperiness. Le Rouge is probably going to be a major sire in the future too, he is very talented and if he was black (he's chestnut, hence his name) would probably be one of the most popular Trakehner stallions in Germany.

Yet another one to think about is King Arthur. He is out competing at Grand Prix and is an imposing stallion. He himself is big (17hh+) but he doesn't always throw big. I've seen a few King Arthur youngstock now who have finished up at 16.2-16.3. They tend to have huge paces in trot and canter. Not all of them have good walks though.

And a final one if Goldschmidt. He is by Reiner Klimke's GP horse Biotop and sire of the top selling mare at Neumunster 2010. He stamps his stock strongly and seems to give them a good temperament although I haven't seen enough out of different mares to be confident about that part. I do like the way his babies move.


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## Tempi (25 November 2010)

Thank you again everyone for all the information - really interesting


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## woodlander (26 November 2010)

Thanks Stolensilver. The mare I am using is in Germany so I will get chilled. In answer to the Connery powerpack question - the filly was a real mover with a motor but the colt not. The dam was not a great mover but good walk and canter.

I have seen Hofrat and as a young horse he had a real ability to pick up in the wither when ridden by the master of young horses, Armbrust. He did however have very short and upright pasterns and was lame quite often, I think, in the early days.


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## stolensilver (26 November 2010)

Hi Woodlander, its good to hear your mare is in Germany. I'm not sure if you will be able to use chilled though. I know that Hohenstein's semen doesn't keep well enough to be chilled and posted out. It has to be collected and used straight away. If you want a Hohenstein baby your mare has to go to his stud to be inseminated. Whether that is also the case with Caprimond I don't know. I'm sure the stud will tell you what will be best for your mare.


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