# Dangerous napping



## Redsara (29 October 2013)

I know napping is a common thread and I have read them but I am part of the problem. I have had my 1/3rd Arab mare for 4 months and we seem to be going backwards! In the school she is an angel and hacks out with company but she won't go out on her own. She becomes very spooky at nothing inparticular and agitated, stops, spins, shakes her head, walks backwards and becomes highly energised so I think she might rear. She is 6 and, if you're into parelli, a right brain introvert. I use a Neue Sheul curved French link loose ring and a Mexican grackle as she opens her mouth and the bit ends up on the side of her cheek. The main issue is me though as I don't want to fall off if she rears. I am not a confident or balanced rider and have had bad experiences in the past. The more i try to make her go on the more wound up she gets. I end up getting off and walking her. I have ordered an ES-tor handle. Any advice please. I don't have anyone to walk out with me and when in company she's fine-behind or in front.


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## paddi22 (30 October 2013)

i'd get a few sessions with a natural horsemanship type person or some one experienced. I had a horse like that and long reining worked really well for it.


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## webble (30 October 2013)

paddi22 said:



			i'd get a few sessions with a natural horsemanship type person or some one experienced. I had a horse like that and long reining worked really well for it.
		
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I agree this would help, if you havent had her long it could be a confidence issue (hers) and that she doesnt see you as the one in charge yet


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## Amymay (30 October 2013)

Have you tried just sitting the nap out?

What's an ES-tor handle?


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## madlady (30 October 2013)

She is picking up the tension and the nerves from you.

Why don't you just knock the solo hacking on the head for a few weeks and work on your own confidence and balance and then gradually introduce mini solo hacks.  There is also no harm in walking or long reining her around the route that you would normally ride so she gets used to taking her cues from you - that would also give you a bit of confidence - if she will go off voice commands from you while you are on the floor she will do the same when you are on board.  

Also do you have someone you trust who could take her out solo to see if she does the same with them?


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## JulesRules (30 October 2013)

I had similar issues with hacking alone when first had my girl. As you have only had her for 4 months maybe you just need to work on building trust? 

I know u said u don't have anyone to walk with you but I really found that helped with my girl, almost by accident.  I had a new sharer and walked out with her quite a bit and then when I next got on my girl just kept happily going much further then usual with no playing up. Have you got a friend you can badger to walk with you.?


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## FlaxenPony05 (30 October 2013)

OK, firstly you need to start leading her out in-hand. I know it's boring and tiring but it really helps. Lots of different commands and transitions so she's listening to you. U-turns, halts, trotting for a bit, and when you are nearing home try to go past the yard so she doesn't anticipate going straight in. Try to be on a circular route so she doesn't just have to turn straight around.
If you are confident, then try long reining. I never tried this with my boy as I had never long reined before but I feel that it would help. 
Next, I think you should really try and get someone to walk out in front of you. It really, really helps. 
If not, and this is what I did with my boy, ask someone with a well behaved, experienced horse to come out with you. Start with them leading, then you and your mare try coming up to walk along side, then your friend can slowly start dropping back until your mare is leading. If she has a confidence crisis then more experienced horse can just come up and lead again.
If that goes well, then try going out yourself. You should probably walk her in hand some of the way, then get on once you're away from home. Even leading on the way out and riding on the way back will be good for her. 
If that goes well, then you're probably ready to try and ride her out from the yard. Try trotting her out first, rather than walking- I find that it means they have less time to find things to spook at! Good contact, lots of firm 'get ons', defensive position, and a smack with the whip if needs be. 
You just need to keep going. I know it's hard and demoralising sometimes, but it's the best feeling when they do actually behave and you can start to relax and enjoy your hacks together.
Good luck.


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## Amymay (30 October 2013)

OP - please don't long rein on the roads.


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## texel (30 October 2013)

an RS-tor handle is a rider security device  which attaches to the stirrup bar and you hold in your hand along with the reins.

They have a web site.

Redsara - how is it going ?


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## _GG_ (30 October 2013)

amymay said:



			OP - please don't long rein on the roads.
		
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I have to add weight to this comment. OP - you have said that you are not that confident and you need to be both extremely confident and experienced with long reining to be safe enough to long rein on the roads and the horse needs to be equally confident with long reining. 

Advice is great, but it must be remembered that as much as something may be great for us, it could be dangerous for someone with less experience/confidence. 

OP - I would get an decent instructor out to help you with this. You can go the NH route if you want, but this sounds to me like a horse that would respond well to a no nonsense, confident rider. Not a rider that will kick and smack, a confident, no nonsense rider that will remain calm, sit the nap through and persist calmly to work the horse through the problem. New horse, still fairly young and potentially one that has learned how to scare you is not the time to be taking unnecessary risks. 

Book a few lessons with an instructor who will walk out with you and work with you on your own confidence and how to handle the horse before this becomes a major problem.


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## Amymay (30 October 2013)

texel said:



			an RS-tor handle is a rider security device  which attaches to the stirrup bar and you hold in your hand along with the reins.

They have a web site. ?
		
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Ooo interesting.

OP I would say this is not a situation you are probably equipped to deal with on your own.  I would get a good instructor who can help you improve your riding skills and also assess the horse when hacking out alone.


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## MiniMilton (30 October 2013)

If you're feeling nervous when she does it you are probably leaning forwards without realising it. Possibly even looking back to make sure you don't back into something? I know I used to do this when my first horse did this. 

If sitting up and legs on with lighter contact isn't working then turning to the side might help. Nothing would really work for my horse as he was so bad. So I used to have to anticipate the situations that would cause it and never go any slower than a good trot when those situations arose. If I walked or halted when he got nervous I was guaranteed to go backwards. The more leg I used the faster he would go backwards. If I was doing a decent trot in the first place I had a better chance of maintaining forward motion.

Good luck, it is such a nasty problem to be dealing with. especially if you have confidence issues like myself.


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## Rollin (30 October 2013)

My bomb proof Highland Pony became nappy when he moved from Scotland to France.  I do the same with all my nappy horses, take them to the end of the drive and bring them home, a bit further the following day.

With youngsters we walk them in hand on their own again a bit further every day.  

In the company of older horses new experiences each day.  For example this morning my four year old CB filly met, for the first time, a huge flock of guinea fowl, a crazy herd of Charolais who were just being fed and a huge tractor with a plough on the back.

As good as gold.


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## dogatemysalad (30 October 2013)

Congratulations on doing so well with your new young horse in the school and hacking in company.

 Solo hacking is a big ask for a young horse in a newish home. The horse really needs a balanced and confident rider to rely on during the early days, so it's perfectly normal that she reacts as she does. 

The best way to help her and yourself is to ride, ride, ride. 

Do what you do best- schooling and hacking in company. Take the pressure off yourselves and forget going out alone until you have both developed a fair degree of trust and when you get in the saddle you feel completely at home. 

The more you mare sees when out and about riding with other horses, the better. When you feel positive about trying to go alone, don't over face yourselves. Set your self a goal; ie the post box 5 minutes away or if possible, a loop around the fields. Don't react if she naps, sit quietly, look ahead and squeeze on. Preferably before she has actually planted. When she's going forwards and doing as you ask, praise her frequently. Don't save praise for the times after she's  stopped and then walked on.
 Do it when everything is fine, then she'll know what she's supposed to be doing.  Good luck, don't feel pressured, you have as long as it takes to get this cracked. Just enjoy her at the stage she's at.


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## Loulou2002 (30 October 2013)

_GG_ said:



			OP - I would get an decent instructor out to help you with this. You can go the NH route if you want, but this sounds to me like a horse that would respond well to a no nonsense, confident rider. Not a rider that will kick and smack, a confident, no nonsense rider that will remain calm, sit the nap through and persist calmly to work the horse through the problem. New horse, still fairly young and potentially one that has learned how to scare you is not the time to be taking unnecessary risks. 

Book a few lessons with an instructor who will walk out with you and work with you on your own confidence and how to handle the horse before this becomes a major problem.
		
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I agree.......think you might need someone to help you nip this in the bud, otherwise it could affect your confidence and make things worse. If its a new partnership some lessons/training will really help you. Having had a few nappy b*****s they will end up pushing you more and more if its not sorted.


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## Redsara (30 October 2013)

Thank you all for your support. I rode out today in the grass fields and was mentally very positive. I anticipated the stops and rode her actively forward and turned her in circles when she messed. We did about 15 mins of walk and sort of trot. However she still messed about with her head, one minute right down the next up star gazing or shaking from side to side. Wanting to trot then not, jogging. Do you think it could be that she just wants a good blast? Trouble is that's not what I want. Should I try a different bit?


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## dogatemysalad (30 October 2013)

Redsara said:



			Thank you all for your support. I rode out today in the grass fields and was mentally very positive. I anticipated the stops and rode her actively forward and turned her in circles when she messed. We did about 15 mins of walk and sort of trot. However she still messed about with her head, one minute right down the next up star gazing or shaking from side to side. Wanting to trot then not, jogging. Do you think it could be that she just wants a good blast? Trouble is that's not what I want. Should I try a different bit?
		
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From your description in your first post, I think it would be wise to get a good instructor to work with you and advise about  changing the bit or nose band. You are unbalanced and if the bit is pulling through her mouth, it may be that you need to work on your balance and your hands. If the bit isn't working for either of you, go back to basics and try a full cheek snaffle. 
 Well done about your ride today, Your positive mind set is really important.


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## showpony (30 October 2013)

Have you tried lunging her before you ride or doing some arena work before going out?


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## Redsara (30 October 2013)

Yes although it doesn't seem to make a difference. She starts off steady but then becomes more and more nappy and spooky and fizzy. Today we trotted but she didn't settle into it, almost as if her mind is elsewhere and she is doing everything she can not to listen to me


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## Tiffany (30 October 2013)

When my girl was young and nervous on her own I got a friend to walk on foot with us and gradually her confidence increased. If you are nervous, she will pick up on your nerves so it becomes a vicious circle. Other option is to walk her out in hand.

My girl still prefers Company but will go out on her own but I feel apprehensive which doesn't help.


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## spacefaer (30 October 2013)

Where are you OP? Someone on here might be able to recommend a good instructor?
I'd be happy to help if you were near!


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## Smogul (31 October 2013)

FlaxenPony05 said:



			Next, I think you should really try and get someone to walk out in front of you. It really, really helps. 
If not, and this is what I did with my boy, ask someone with a well behaved, experienced horse to come out with you. Start with them leading, then you and your mare try coming up to walk along side, then your friend can slowly start dropping back until your mare is leading. If she has a confidence crisis then more experienced horse can just come up and lead again.
If that goes well, then try going out yourself.
		
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I agree that this is a great way to tackle it, for nervous riders as well as horses. Start doing it in the school. Make it a game for yourself and the horse. Do it first in walk, then in trot, and gradually increase the distance you go in front of the other horse. Most horses love this game and get very competitive, cannot wait for their turn to go in front. Try and play the game with as many different horses as you can.
Once you are doing it happily in the school in walk, trot and canter. go out for a very very short walk and do the same thing. With any luck your horse will be so focussed on the game that doing it in a different environment won't register


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## _GG_ (31 October 2013)

Redsara said:



			Thank you all for your support. I rode out today in the grass fields and was mentally very positive. I anticipated the stops and rode her actively forward and turned her in circles when she messed. We did about 15 mins of walk and sort of trot. However she still messed about with her head, one minute right down the next up star gazing or shaking from side to side. Wanting to trot then not, jogging. Do you think it could be that she just wants a good blast? Trouble is that's not what I want. Should I try a different bit?
		
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Ok...obvious I know but have you had her seen by a physio since you you've had her, have you had her tack fit checked and have her teeth been seen by an EDT in the last 6 months? She is still only 6 so teeth are still on the cusp of needing to be done more frequently so the discomfort could be due to sharp edges. It could also be due to saddle not quite fitting right, which is easily done with a change in season and workload as they change shape slightly. Also, it's easy to get discomfort from a slip in the field or poor work before you got her, so getting her checked over by a physio would be good too. 

Personally, I would check all before changing bit or doing much else. Well done for the positive attitude on your ride though


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## Goldenstar (31 October 2013)

Another one saying don't long rein on the road unless your very compentant at it and you have a helper walking with you it's just not safe.
I am another who would advise good professional help on the ground .


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## 4x4 (2 November 2013)

Just read this and remembering some very bad napping which my mare did for quite a while, probably around 6 onwards, just realised she doesn't do it anymore!  I think it could me a mare thing, she will probably always be a bit nervous, mine nearly naps now but doesn't, she just literally puts the handbrake on nowadays whereas once  it used be be the full walking backwards 'I am going to rear!' thing.  My advice is to NEVER let her get away with it, make sure you always go on a circular route so she doesn't think you turn at a certain point and if you have to sit it our just spend the time without getting too riled, I had advice to beat her past things whatever, but found that if you just wait long enough they go in the end(I have also been known to reverse several strides until she got fed up with it.) Good luck!


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## Redsara (2 November 2013)

Yes all checks up to date except saddle check. It was professionally fitted in aug and I have a cotton numnah. This all gets very expensive if I have to keep getting it checked every season! Could I not put something more accomodating under it?


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## FestiveFuzz (3 November 2013)

It'll get even more expensive if you leave it unchecked and it is the problem!

As a 6yo she's quite possibly still growing and changing shape so I'd be looking to have her saddle checked regularly. 

My 7yo is still bum high and has the physio every 3 months and saddle checked every 6 months for my peace of mind as much as anything else. If he started exhibiting any signs of discomfort (for him this is bucking, fidgeting and refusing to stand) I would get the physio out to check his back no matter how recently she had last seen him and only start looking at other issues once I'd ruled out badly fitting tack/a sore back.


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## TarrSteps (3 November 2013)

I'm a bit confused. . .why is getting a supportive instructor not an option? There is no way you're going to know every thing you need to know about every horsey situation that might arise so why not get someone experienced and professional to give you a hand and show you how best to proceed? Usually the safest and quickest route.


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## Amymay (4 November 2013)

Redsara said:



			This all gets very expensive if I have to keep getting it checked every season! Could I not put something more accomodating under it?
		
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That's horses for you.  Expensive.


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## 9tails (4 November 2013)

Redsara said:



			Yes all checks up to date except saddle check. It was professionally fitted in aug and I have a cotton numnah. This all gets very expensive if I have to keep getting it checked every season! Could I not put something more accomodating under it?
		
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You need to get a saddle checked regularly, mine are done every six months so every two seasons.


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## Kallibear (4 November 2013)

Redsara said:



			I am not a confident or balanced rider and have had bad experiences in the past. The more i try to make her go on the more wound up she gets. I end up getting off and walking her..
		
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You've pinpointed your problem. You are nervous and therefore make her nervous. 

You've got a couple of basic options.  You either work to make yourself more confident and assertive,  you stop putting yourself in situations where you need to be confident and assertive or you get a different horse who doesn't need you to be confident and assertive. 

If you want to persevere with hacking alone then there's nothing wrong with leading her. Assuming you're confident with her on the ground. If you flap and dance around her on the ground,  let her walk over you and get anxious when she messes about  you'll just make it worse.

Tack her up and set off inhand. Once she's calm and relaxed and somewhere she's usually happy, hop on for a little bit. Get off if you become nervous but continue in the same direction.  She won't see getting off as 'having won' because making you get off was never her intention. She desperately wants to go home so as long as she's made to continue in the direction you wanted, it's irrelevant whether you're on board or not. 

You do need to think carefully whether you're the right rider for her to hack alone though. It will never improve if your own confidence doesn't improve. And getting someonr else to hack her out will only help for a bit. She'll be happy an confident with a stronger leader taking her out but if her nature is to look to the rider for leadership then it's YOU who needs to change

P.s you say you're an unbalanaced rider? Change that first!!! It will make you very nervous if you lack balance!  Get lessons to improve your balance, possibly a more suitable saddle and if it's because you're fat, loose some weight.


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## Redsara (4 November 2013)

Just to update all the kind posters here-I had an instructor come out with me and she gave very good feed back. Apparently my problem is that I sit with a loose rein and relax too much when out hacking and the horse doesn't like the sensation and feels vunrable, afraid and has to take control. So they have given me strategies to reassure that im still with her and in control


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## TarrSteps (5 November 2013)

Redsara said:



			Just to update all the kind posters here-I had an instructor come out with me and she gave very good feed back. Apparently my problem is that I sit with a loose rein and relax too much when out hacking and the horse doesn't like the sensation and feels vunrable, afraid and has to take control. So they have given me strategies to reassure that im still with her and in control
		
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Great news. Happy hacking.


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## showpony (5 November 2013)

My chap is a bit like that, likes to have the contact when out & about as he feels he can hold my hand a bit  


Redsara said:



			Just to update all the kind posters here-I had an instructor come out with me and she gave very good feed back. Apparently my problem is that I sit with a loose rein and relax too much when out hacking and the horse doesn't like the sensation and feels vunrable, afraid and has to take control. So they have given me strategies to reassure that im still with her and in control
		
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## spaceflower (5 November 2013)

Wow, you've got loads of advice here, all very valid and you'll need to work out what's best for you and your mare.

The only thing I'll add is my chap used to be very nappy, we had limited circular rides and when a ride took us past a route home, boy would we have a fight.  spinning, walking backwards, bunny hopping off his front legs, rearing...you name it.  He then started spooky/napping at stupid stuff, like push bikes etc.  

I then came on the H&H forum to read up for some advice, and followed someones suggestion...leg, leg leg.  Don't let off, and don't let them turn for the direction of home, just keep your leg permanently on and strong.  He would still attempt spinning, walking backwards etc etc, but then seem to say, oh go on then, you win!  

I have since moved yards, and he's tried it on a few times, but kept with the exact same principle that as soon as he thinks about it, or attempts it, leg leg leg, just constant strong pressure.  In fact he did this last week when a track had a full width puddle that he didn't like the look of - tried to spin, then backwards, but we got through and he got a big pat for being such a 'big brave boy'!

Like I said, just another few words to add to the list.


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## applecart14 (5 November 2013)

If she is walking backwards then let her!! But turn her bum to the direction you want to go and make her walk backwards past whatever she is napping at.  That way you both get what you want, but you actually win!


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