# Loaner causing trouble!



## Luce85 (27 August 2014)

This may be a long one, sorry in advance..

I put my gelding on loan in September last year, made the decision to loan him out as I couldn't ride due to back op and I was running a stud, so didn't have the time to try to ride. Found a loaner, she seemed lovely, rode him nicely, didn't big herself up in terms of her riding ability and was completely honest about her flaws. We agreed to a full loan, and he was actually kept on my sisters yard which is about 20 mins from me, so was able to go see them regularly and my sister was the yard owner so kept an eye on him, as heard all sorts of stories regarding loans going badly.

Anyway, things have been great up until about a month or so ago, they'd been out to competitons, fun rides, hunting over winter, doing all sorts of things and my boy looked happy enough, loaner was causing no trouble paying livery, farrier, dentist etc. My sister said she was a great livery until June time when she got a boyfriend. Since this boyfriend has came along, loanee has been neglected him of what he needs, she used to go down twice a day, it's more like once every 3 days now! He is on DIY livery, my sister and her grooms have of course been doing him and making sure he has been okay and looked after and charged her the extra (which I think is reasonable?) Anyway, she sent a cheque for his livery, posted it through the door for just her standard DIY livery, completely ignoring the extra ontop of it. 

I emailed her to say something along the lines of, he has been happy under your care, he has been doing really well, if circumstances have changed, I can look into a part loaner for you, so he is still being looked after? No response. 
I rang her to say things need to be sorted, you haven't been to see him in 4 days now, please get back to me asap, she didn't call back or acknowledge my phone call.

She got left a letter by another livery saying she had sorted him out as yard owner wasn't on site, and that she was hoping to see her soon, didn't reply. My sister has been asking for the extra money from her that she owes as she isn't doing the horse herself (leaving him in, no water no hay) no response. 

So I emailed her saying, I am taking horse back as he is being mistreated here, it is unneeded stress for him, he loves his usual routine. NOW she replies saying I am not happy with you taking him back, I have his saddle and all his other tack, you cannot remove him from the yard without my permission. 
Who is she to tell me this, I own the horse?!

My question to you is, what do I do? Do I bring him home, and try to find a way to get the tack back (I have a feeling she will not go down without a fight) and pay my sister the livery owed? What can I do? This is the first time I have loaned one of mine out and have no idea what to do in regards to his saddle? And did I do the right thing in saying I would bring him home? Surely she doesn't have a leg to stand on?


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## Goldenstar (27 August 2014)

Go pick him up bring him home then sort out the saddle .
What did you put in the contract about notice ?


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## Sukistokes2 (27 August 2014)

I have no idea of the legal stuff, but surely if this stuff belongs to you taking it or not giving back is called stealing. Do you know where she lives!?
Maybe now you have scared her she will come to her senses, she will either get on with the horse or decide it is too much hassle.


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## little_critter (27 August 2014)

I think the priority is the well being of your horse. Bring him home and sort out the saddle later. 
You did the right thing, she ignored all your previous messages when you tried to discuss the issue. She had her chance, tough luck.


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## Tiddlypom (27 August 2014)

Do you have a written contract?


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## paddi22 (27 August 2014)

i'd take the horse back and threaten her with the police if she doesn't give the tack back. Or if i knew her address i'd send two big men around to collect it off her! what a wagon!


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## be positive (27 August 2014)

She has broken any contract by not taking care of the horse, the fact that someone else has is irrelevant, she is also breaking the terms of her contract with the livery yard, not turning up and failing to pay for services. 
I would take him back but think you may have a fight to get the tack unless you can be devious and wait until she is there and arrive to collect him, if you can face a confrontation I am sure your sister would be on side to contact you when she arrives but it could be a bit tricky logistically unless you are in the position where you can drop everything and set off immediately.


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## Goldenstar (27 August 2014)

I would be worried she's a fruit loop and might try to move your horse OP ,your sister could not stop that and the police would just call it a civil matter .
I would move the horse home arrange for the tack to be returned keep record of all contact and take her to the small claims court pronto if the tack is not returned immediately .


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## Exploding Chestnuts (27 August 2014)

They are unreal.
I had some bridles stolen, went to the house,  father, handing them over said "I don't know anything about this", your son, a young teenager,  [does not go to schoo], who has no money brings a load of stuff home, and you don't say anything ...............
He was lucky I was unable to get a policeman that day, or I would have had the boy charged, not for any reason other than lies and deceit of him and both parents.
You are not in such a strong position [legally] as you handed over the tack, so the police will consider it a civil matter [I think] but don t let that stop you making a complaint.


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## Luce85 (27 August 2014)

Thank you guys for the comments and reassuarance I did the right thing. 

We do have a written contract, it is the BHS one. The notice is I think 30 days, but I think it's a case of moving him now.
I like to see the good in people and give them a second chance but I don't think it is worth it here. 

Will be going to get him tomorrow to bring him home! I have the address that was given when we started the loan but heard through the grapevine that she has moved in with this boyfriend of hers so not sure where that is.


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## Amymay (27 August 2014)

little_critter said:



			I think the priority is the well being of your horse. Bring him home and sort out the saddle later. 
You did the right thing, she ignored all your previous messages when you tried to discuss the issue. She had her chance, tough luck.
		
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I completely agree.

If he were mine I'd pick him up tomorrow.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (27 August 2014)

Don't give notice of removal, hope she turns up with tack so you can get it back that way. Do you know when she is likely to turn up, and you can grab it?


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## Tiddlypom (27 August 2014)

Luce85 said:



			Will be going to get him tomorrow to bring him home!
		
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Good for you.

If the tack inventory is detailed in the contract, it will make it easier to claim your stuff back, but getting him home is the priority. 

What a nightmare.


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## Spotsrock (27 August 2014)

If u have to resort to small claims last known address should do nicely as you have a contract so she should have updated her details with u. Then next time she tries to upgrade her phone or get credit age will hopefully find out about her ccj as she will have to give past addresses.
Won't get your tack or its value immediately but will make u feel better. 
Definitely agree theft though, definition is to take items with the intention to permenantly deprive the owner. She has stated this is what she is doing. Insist police act.


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## ticobay831 (27 August 2014)

Definatly go and get him back and report the tack inccident to the police, explain the situation, its theft and tell them that
If you have a signed contract give the British horse society a call, if your a gold member which is about, £54 you can get free legal advise
its well worth it.
Ive had problems with previous loaners they are just unbelievable, she is well out of order and you have every right to take your horse back, thank god he was at your sisters yard where he got looked after..
Good luck xx


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## Luce85 (27 August 2014)

Been a very eventful hour or so!
Luckily my sister has some VERY dedicated grooms living on site.. They recieved a phone call about an hour ago asking for the yard post code, turns out she had planned to come pick him up now. Que grooms refusing to give the post code, me and and my sister got to the yard and stood with Buzz (horse) and she arrived with hired trailer in tow, planning on moving him! 

Absolute nut job, she didn't stand a chance, he is now home in the stable he has known for 12 years! And I should have my tack back tomorrow, I hope!


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## maree t (27 August 2014)

OMG . talk about stressful. Thank goodness he was on your sisters yard and the staff were great . Glad he is home and safe , good luck with getting the tack returned .


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## Exploding Chestnuts (27 August 2014)

A narrow escape.


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## Cinnamontoast (27 August 2014)

OMG, does she know where he is now? Might be worth letting the police know that she plans to take your horse by giving them a call on 101. If you don't get the tack back, report it as stolen (if she intends to permanently deprive you of your property, that is theft). Hope she disappears!


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## Goldenstar (28 August 2014)

Thank god you have him away .
Is he secure where he is ?
I think you will have a battle over the tack but it's the lesser of the evils at least you have the horse .


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## Fides (28 August 2014)

Goodness what a loon!! Gone from seeing him twice a week to wanting him full time?!?! How on earth did she expect to a) get away with it and b) manage a horse without people to do him when she can't be bothered?!?!

People never fail to amaze me!


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## Luce85 (28 August 2014)

Very narrow escape! I am going to get both the girls a bottle of wine and chocolates! They didn't have to answer the phone as they were technically off the clock, but did and stood their ground! 

He is on the stud yard in an indoor secure barn with the stallions, she knows where my yard is, but I doubt she would try again, I did get angry and give her a mouthful, but she very much deserved it I think! We have people onsite where he is now and the dogs are loose incase they need to get out, so I hope she wouldn't try I really do. 

I am also doubtful of getting my tack back, but she said I'd get it tomorrow and tried to spout some rubbish about wanting him back and trying to work something out. I think it is all a load of tosh and definitely won't be giving her a second chance! I really hope she disappears, I really do, and hopefully Buzz will not be too confused with moving so late at night!


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## Jaycee (28 August 2014)

Omg what a nightmare for you and Buzz, I'm sure he will be as happy as larry to be back with you! How lucky to have someone living on site at the yard under such circumstances though.


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## Red-1 (28 August 2014)

Sounds very frightening, what on earth possessed her to think she could just turn up and take your horse away?

It is frightening to me when you hear on HHO of sharers and loaners alike who seem to forget who the horse belongs to. I have had some brilliant sharers and count myself very lucky. 

With regards to the sister, I think legally it is the loaner who owes her the money so she could take her to small claims court. If it were me though I would be so pleased she stepped in and took care of my boy I would just pay her what was owed.


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## RaposadeGengibre (28 August 2014)

I have to admit I had a sneaky thought last night but decided against posting it, thinking that the girl cant be that loony and I would only wind you up unnecessary.
Thanks heavens Buzz was on your sisters yard!


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## MagicMelon (28 August 2014)

I'd make sure she follows through with giving you the tack back today. Threaten her immediately with legal action - that'll make her realise you're serious. What a crazy person...


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## Amymay (28 August 2014)

Bloomin hell!! What on earth was she thinking??

So glad he's home and safe with you.

Have you involved the police?


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## MissTyc (28 August 2014)

Glad he is safe home -- sounds like the loaner forgot he wasn't her own horse. Her's to neglect to keep or move ... Silly girl!


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## MDB (28 August 2014)

Glad you and your horse are ok and he is back at home safely. What a nightmare.


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## LittleMonster (28 August 2014)

Bring him home!

And then get your sister to chase the bills that she still owes, tack is tack and can be replaced but the horse would be my top priority and would be coming home ASAP!

ETA - Just seen you have brought him home to where he belongs, well done to you and the yard staff!


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## _GG_ (28 August 2014)

Luce85 said:



			Thank you guys for the comments and reassuarance I did the right thing. 

We do have a written contract, it is the BHS one. The notice is I think 30 days, but I think it's a case of moving him now.
I like to see the good in people and give them a second chance but I don't think it is worth it here. 

Will be going to get him tomorrow to bring him home! I have the address that was given when we started the loan but heard through the grapevine that she has moved in with this boyfriend of hers so not sure where that is.
		
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I think with the BHS contract you, as the owner have the right to remove the horse without notice if it's care is not being met. I did with Teasle many many years ago. The daughter was distraught but many clauses in the contract were being broken. They tried to take us to court....the court wouldn't hear it and they were told in no uncertain terms that I, as the owner, had every right to ensure my horses welfare. 

If you are a BHS gold member, call the free helpline. Really though, I would get the horse home ASAP and then ask for the tack back. If it wasn't given back, I'd have a chat to the neighbourhood police officer and see if they could have a chat with her. Police have a tendency to think that tack is irrelevant but it is not...if it was a flatscreen tv or vehicle, they would be on it...it should be no different for other types of property xx


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## Meowy Catkin (28 August 2014)

What a close call. Wow. So glad that you've got him safely home. 

Some people and their skewed sense of what's right and wrong are just shocking. Does anyone remember the case on AL where the loaner hid the horse from the owner and got other people to help hide him? IIRC he was finally found being hidden by an equine dentist. Lord knows what the loaner said to persuade others to hide the horse like that.


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## ticobay831 (28 August 2014)

OMG thank god you've got him back, there are some horrible nasty people out there, hiope everything goes well for, its a night mare...


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## Tiddlypom (28 August 2014)

Blimey, OP, thank goodness you were all on the ball with this nutter. I would log this incident with the police asap, so that it is in the system. Hope you get all his tack etc back, too.

For general info for others reading this thread, here are two relevant parts of the BHS loan contract template. Using it can't prevent a nutter from loaning your horse, but it makes it easier to sort things out if it all goes wrong compared to having just a verbal agreement.

_2	TERMINATION
2.1	The loan will terminate in the following circumstances:
2.1.1	either party giving [insert number] days notice in writing to the other; or
2.1.2	if either party is in breach of any of the terms of this agreement, unless the breach is remedied within [30] days of it taking place; or
2.1.3	at the end of the Period without the need for any further notice
2.1.4	If the Horse does not fit the description given by the Owner or is not fit for the purpose required by the Borrower as set out in clause 3.3 overleaf
2.1.5	On the death of the Horse
2.2	On termination the Borrower shall be responsible for returning the Horse to the Owner.


6	EQUIPMENT
6.1	The Horse is loaned with items of equipment as set out in Schedule 3 to this agreement.
6.2	Such tack and equipment is and remains the property of the Owner and will be returned to the Owner at the end of the Period, or earlier if terminated in the same condition so far as possible, subject to fair wear and tear.
6.3	In the event of loss, damage or the item wearing out then a replacement item of the same or similar quality and value if purchased new should be provided by the Borrower on return.
6.4	All items purchased by the Borrower during the period of the loan not by way of replacement shall remain the property of the Borrower._







.


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## hotair (28 August 2014)

wow really glad you managed to get him home before she managed to take him! it really is terrorfying some of the stories you read on loans going wrong


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## mandwhy (28 August 2014)

OMG how scary, glad you took action quickly and the staff were on hand to help, I think you gave her plenty of chances and when you are an owner you should remove the horse as soon as you start to feel uncomfortable, thank god you did!

Hope you get the tack back and don't hear from her again, what a weirdo.


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## Dizzle (28 August 2014)

I honestly don't understand people some times, what on earth did she think she was doing?!

Glad he's home safe and well and such a shame that once again people are giving loaning a bad name.


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## Tnavas (28 August 2014)

WEll done on getting out safe and sound - I hope you get your tack back too.

Do let us know


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## TheEquineOak (28 August 2014)

I have both loaned horses and loaned my pride and joy out - thankfully successfully!!!

I would not have been as polite as you or some of the other posters here. 

The police cannot do anything until a crime has been commited and even then, equine theft/equipment theft has vertually fallen off their agenda!

If I had been on a yard when someone had tried to collect my horse in the manner she has she would not have been able to sit down for a week.

Grab some friends, knock on her door and get your stuff back. 

Good luck


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## misskk88 (28 August 2014)

I am so angry for you OP! My jaw drops once again at the cheek of some people!

I do not understand what makes loaners think they have a given right to the horse- it is your horse, and ultimately you can choose to terminate the contract at any point (regardless whether it is for a reason, or simply because you want the horse back). 

If she doesn't hand over tack, remind her of the signed agreement (I assume you listed what tack was handed over in the contract?), if so, politely explain you will be taking it to a solicitor/the police to either 1, get your property back, or 2, claim the value of it. 

Glad horse is safe and sound


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## niagaraduval (28 August 2014)

I can't believe what i've just read.. do people like that really exist ?

I think I would be arrested if I ever came face to face with someone who was trying to steal my horse.

I'm glad it all ended ok and I hope you get your tack back soon.


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## AmieeT (28 August 2014)

Good grief. Just read all of this, glad your boy is safe with you now!!! 

I would never dream of doig anything like this to Reds owners!!!

Ax


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## JulesRules (28 August 2014)

Thank goodness you got him back okay..

If you do have to take her to court over the tack I don't think she will have a leg to stand on. She broke the terms of her contract and you took the horse back. End of...


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## diamonddogs (28 August 2014)

In the unlikely event of you getting your tack back, I'd get it all professionally checked over in case she's attacked it in some way which might not be obvious from a cursory glance, and if any damage IS found, get it in writing.

Then, if she's damaged any of your items, you've got her in breach of contract again.

Could prove an expensive scam for her in the long run!


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## pip6 (28 August 2014)

Good for you. Also worth passing around word of mouth to owners you know in case she tries to take another one on loan. Keep your eyes on second hand sales sites to see if she tries to flog your tack.


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## Luce85 (28 August 2014)

Thank you everyone. 

I am so happy to have him home and he doesn't seem too stressed out bless him! Must of confused him but at least he came home, god knows where she would have taken him at that time at night?! 

No sign of her so far with my tack, I have informed the police who weren't much good but noted it anyway, as I am wary of her turning up to the yard all guns blazing. 

In the contract, all tack was accounted for and she signed with her mom as witness, so hopefully I can use that in my favour in getting it back! I wouldn't mind but when he has an albion jump and dressage saddle and a JW bridle, I'm not to keen on giving that up! 

Diamonddogs - good idea on getting it checked once/if it is  back, wouldn't have thought of her doing any damage!
It does give loaners a bad name, shame as I know so many lovely people who loan, but there are always a few who just don't seem to understand the commitment horses bring!


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## southerncomfort (28 August 2014)

I would send her a letter via Recorded Delivery giving her 7 days to return all the tack or you'll have not choice but to take it to Court.

Very glad you have your boy home. What a close call!


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## pixie (29 August 2014)

any luck with your tack?


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## _GG_ (29 August 2014)

southerncomfort said:



			I would send her a letter via Recorded Delivery giving her 7 days to return all the tack or you'll have not choice but to take it to Court.

Very glad you have your boy home. What a close call!
		
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This^^^ but with the addition that you have set side the funds to cover any recovery procedures...that will hopefully reiterate that it is not an empty threat. 

I am so glad you have him back home now. Sounds like it was quite an eventful night. I'm rather glad she wasted the cost of trailer hire


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## Honey08 (29 August 2014)

southerncomfort said:



			I would send her a letter via Recorded Delivery giving her 7 days to return all the tack or you'll have not choice but to take it to Court.

Very glad you have your boy home. What a close call!
		
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I would be doing this, but it would be a solicitor's letter followed up with a trip to the small claims court.  No more giving her chances, she had one and hasn't arrived with the tack - chance over..

This girl abused your horse, abused your sister's business and made solid plans to steal your horse.  GET CHASING HER!  Start some legal procedures, scare her. Don't let the selfish, spoilt little madam continue with this game.


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## milesjess (29 August 2014)

Glad you have him back.


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## EmmasMummy (29 August 2014)

Glad you have him back...I dont get why she suddenly wanted him after not bothering with him! 

Fingers crossed you get your tack back.  Do they have security markings?  I would keep an eye out locally and on EBAY to make sure she doesn't do something as underhand as try to sell them!


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## Luce85 (30 August 2014)

Sorry to bring this back up, asking for advice.

No response in getting my tack back, been checking all sorts of websites to make sure she isnt trying to flog it! 

What is the best way to get it back? Try the police again or just send her a recorded letter? Annoying me now! Also I want her to pay the outstanding livery to my sister, don't think it is fair I should pay it, sister isn't massively bothered but I don't want her and her grooms to be out of pocket.


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## Honey08 (30 August 2014)

As I said before, I would spend the money on a solicitor's letter and threat of court, for both tack and unpaid livery.  And go to the small claims court if not. I wouldn't let her get away with it, keep hassling her.

You said her mother signed something. Do you know her address?


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## Loubidy (30 August 2014)

We had an issue a year or so ago where my mum sold someone my old saddle for £300 but the woman never came with the money (small island community so felt could trust her to come with it) eventually after mum dropped note after note to her house she sent a letter by recorded delivery requesting payment or she would get solicitors involved if payment wasn't delivered by said date. Day after said date a cheque arrived.


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## MagicMelon (30 August 2014)

Honey08 said:



			As I said before, I would spend the money on a solicitor's letter and threat of court, for both tack and unpaid livery.  And go to the small claims court if not. I wouldn't let her get away with it, keep hassling her.

You said her mother signed something. Do you know her address?
		
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This. If you don't have her address, I wonder if your solicitor is allowed to call her and basically say what he'd have said in a letter (threatening court action if she doesn't return it immediately since she has effectively stolen it). Or you could text her (since she wont answer the phone?) and tell her you'll report her as stealing the tack if she doesn't give it back in the next 2 days?  Its unbelievable she thinks she can just keep it.


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## Illusion100 (30 August 2014)

What a SCUMBAG! 

Very relieved you got a happy ending and not the alternative one that disgraceful lowlife had planned.

Girl sounds vindictive and spiteful then things not going their way. I second getting a solicitor to write a letter or call her asap and threaten her with Court. If she doesn't hand tack etc back sharpish, Small Claims Court.

It's the least she deserves after neglecting your horse then trying to steal him.


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## noodle_ (30 August 2014)

gawd scary - thank god you have him back


i personally had a good loaner - just a shame it ended how it did, BUT i will never loan out again - id rather sell- too stressful - there are good loaners out there but this obviously isnt one.... poor you OP


id send a letter recorded - ASAP threaten her with a solicitor if no tack appears in 7 days....


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## MiJodsR2BlinkinTite (31 August 2014)

OP I am SO glad you've got your horse back.......... that is the main thing anyway.

Tho' if I was in your situation I'd take a wee look at your yard security and update if necessary, just to be sure, and to set your own mind at rest. For e.g. you can get quite cheap-n-cheerful alarm systems at B & Q plus fake cameras that look like they're real, but aren't, ditto a "box" that you put up on the wall which looks like a proper alarm, but isn't in fact. They do a reasonable Bulls!t job of convincing the punters that you have security in place. Plus it might be worth bunging on a padlock & chain around the place. 

Re. your tack. I'd straightaway report this to the police and get a crime number - and THEN write a stiff letter to the madam who's got your tack saying words to the effect that the matter has been reported to the police and a crime number issued and that she is committing a criminal offence for which she may be liable for a conviction of theft if she continues to keep your property in her possession; and that as well as reporting to the police you will pursue recovery of your property to the small claims court. You could also tell her that as she is in arrears of her livery at the yard in question you will also be asking the YO to provide her with an itemised receipt of ALL costs incurred by her at the yard and that if these fees are not paid for in full then you will add these on to your costs when you take the outstanding claim against her to small claims court.


Re. the livery fees, you have a complication in that a member of your family is involved; which creates an obvious difficulty. 

I put my boy out on loan three years ago. The stooopid numpty girl that had him let his sweet itch get badly out of hand the first weekend he was there; plus only five weeks into the loan she decided she "couldn't afford it" and I was left in a similar position to OP with outstanding livery fees which the YO then expected me to cover! All very difficult, but I brought my boy home ASAP and we literally built a stable around him!!! But I'm so glad I did that, in retrospect. 

The loan agreement I drew up, based on the BHS one but adapted: entitled me as owner to take back the horse "at any time with immediate effect" if there was any concern as to its welfare and/or the livery fees were not being paid, plus certain other conditions. Very necessary in any loan agreement - thank goodness OP that you've got your lovely horse back coz otherwise it could have ended up anywhere.

Lets hope you get your tack back: have you got any photos of your tack which you could use to ID it?? Is it security-marked???


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## Luce85 (31 August 2014)

Tack is security marked, well both the saddles are I think. 

Have drafted out a letter and rang BHS gold member thingy to see what they say. They've been very helpful actually! I'm sending it to the address on the contract, but not sure if she is living there or with her boyfriend, not sure if her mom would open the letter? 

We have tried ringing a few times but no answer, but it rings on a withheld number, so I think she is avoiding the calls, but we have left a message warning her on the tack and outstanding livery payments. 

I wish she would just give it back so we can all move on, Buzz is very happy to be home though, so that is the main thing!


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## MiJodsR2BlinkinTite (1 September 2014)

Mmmm........... sounds like the little B!tch needs a bit of a kick up the bum TBH. Perhaps your letter might do the trick (presumably threatening solicitors/court?)??? - if not, you might actually have to go to a solicitor and ask them to write a formal letter for you on their headed notepaper. 

Just a thought: but does the little cow work somewhere? Maybe a call to her workplace might produce a result? Like, (this is the way my mind works anyway) you could explain to her boss in perfect innocence that you are trying to contact her and why. She might not like her employers/workmates to know that she's doing this sort of stuff.......???


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## _GG_ (1 September 2014)

Luce85 said:



			Tack is security marked, well both the saddles are I think. 

Have drafted out a letter and rang BHS gold member thingy to see what they say. They've been very helpful actually! I'm sending it to the address on the contract, but not sure if she is living there or with her boyfriend, not sure if her mom would open the letter? 

We have tried ringing a few times but no answer, but it rings on a withheld number, so I think she is avoiding the calls, but we have left a message warning her on the tack and outstanding livery payments. 

I wish she would just give it back so we can all move on, Buzz is very happy to be home though, so that is the main thing!
		
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Then you hand write the envelope and write URGENT on it. Envelopes like that tend not to get left unopened for long.


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## Marmite Sandwich (1 September 2014)

I think I would be inclined to approach her mum directly. Chances are the tack is still at that address too. Is it near enough for you and a couple of friends (menacing looking chaps would be good) to go and knock on the door?  How old is the former loaner?


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## pixie (2 September 2014)

Keep us updated


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## EmmasMummy (2 September 2014)

Just a thought,  not sticking up for her, but DONT repeatedly call...or go round a lot as she may be a wee madam and use the harassment card.  As annoying as it is, hounding her for the stuff kinda is - even though yes, its her own bloody doing! 
Do all that you can then wait a bit, then do it again if nothing happens.  Maybe get confirmation from the police on exactly what steps you can take before its deemed harassing her etc?  

Just so that she doesnt have anything to come at you with.


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## Loubidy (6 September 2014)

Any update?


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## Grumpy Herbert (6 September 2014)

Wow!  Psycho loon from hell or what!!  Your horse has had a lucky escape, as have you.

Regarding your tack - if she doesn't return it then that is theft.  The definition of theft (loosely, can't remember the exact wording) is taking an article from another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it.  If she fails to return it after you have asked repeatedly, then she clearly intends to deprive you of it permanently.  I agree with Honey08, go get yourself a solicitor's letter.  It doesn't cost a lot, and may concentrate her mind a bit.  If no luck, go back to the police and be firm - theft is still a crime even if they'd prefer not to have to deal with it.

Good luck and keep us updated!


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## Tnavas (6 September 2014)

Definitely agree with many who have said get a solicitors letter. It's amazing how quickly people roll over when threatened with legal intervention.

Re the livery bill, a demand for payment will need to come from your sister if the livery contract is with her. 

So glad you got your horse back up damaged.


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## LuandLu24 (6 September 2014)

Bring the horse home and sort the saddle once you know the horse is okay. Good luck!


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## sasquatch (6 September 2014)

would it be possible for you to put an advert on local horsey fb pages asking if anyone has bought/seen the saddle could they please let you know, as you are awaiting it's return from a loaner. it might also put her off trying to sell it through local fb groups if she knows that you and others will catch her trying to sell it on.

Do you know if the old yard has tack facilities, and if she kept tack there? if she really was such a lazy so-and-so, she might well have left the tack there.

I would definitely stop leaving her voicemails/phoning her a lot - your best plan is to get it all in writing. As others have said, go to a solicitor. I'm not sure an organisation like the CAB would be much help on this matter, but they may be able to offer advice on what to do from the position you're in now.


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## Luci07 (6 September 2014)

Firstly huge relief for you that you have your horse home. Just thinking outside the box a little...as the mother witnessed the contract, do you have her parents address ( or is that what you meant by not knowing her address?) or if you know her parents name, I would actually write to them, explain the situation clearly and say you have been unable to contact her and she has reneged on the contract. State your intentions (court) but say that as the mother had been party to the contract, you wasted to make them aware of the situation before proceeding.


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## Luce85 (7 September 2014)

Currently on colic watch so thought would fill you all in.

Sent the letter to her parents house (address on the contract) with Urgent, also left a message with no response, so gave her a ring the next day, mother answered and said the tack was there for all she knew, but i couldn't collect until she had spoken to her daughter to confirm she no longer has the horse - rings back and the mother tells me that the horse is still in her daughters care so no I cannot collect my tack!! 

I'm at a loss! What next? I asked the mom to ensure her daughter does not take the tack anywhere otherwise the police and small claims court will be after her! Even offered to take poor Buzz to the house to prove he is home with me! 

God help me!


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## Loubidy (7 September 2014)

Contact the police for theft. What an utter joke.


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## Tnavas (7 September 2014)

Sounds like the girl has been keeping mum in the dark. I seriously suggest that you back right off now. You know you have a contact address so now head for a solicitor and get the letter written. Does you phone or camera have a date that can be made visible? If so get a picture of you and horse that includes your location in it. Give to the solicitor to prove you have the horse. 

Do everything legally now and above board. Good Luck

Hope your colicky horse is OK


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## Luci07 (7 September 2014)

I would also put a call into the police station, explain the situation and while I appreciate they will say this is a civil matter, you will have it logged. Call the mother, tell her the police have been notified so that IF the tack is moved from her house, this will be treated as theft (bit of bluffing here). THEN say you have taken legal actions and be pursuing this through small courts (livery and tack) with the view that you will apply for a CCJ if not successful .  Tell the mother you do understand she has probably not been kept up to date but her daughter has left you no choice.


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## Tnavas (7 September 2014)

Luce85 

Would you be able to clarify

Is the livery arrangement between you and the loaner or is it between your sister and the loaner?

If the livery arrangement is between the loaner and your sister, your sister is the person to make the claim against the loaner not you. 

You can't do so as you are not the provider of the service. But you can get tough about the tack. And as you now have a confirmed address you can make real progress.


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## hairycob (7 September 2014)

Does that make the mother in receipt of stolen property?


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## Tnavas (7 September 2014)

That would be debateable - I guess now that she knows the horse has been returned to its owner she could be.  Especially as she has refused to give it to the rightful owner.


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## Dry Rot (7 September 2014)

The closer the OP sticks to the formal and correct procedure, the stronger will be her case in court, if that is what it comes to.

The initial steps have been gone through. The OP has made contact by phone or email via parents or last known address. 

Personally, I'd avoid a direct personal confrontation. Much better to get things in writing -- or perhaps these days on video!

As there's been no satisfactory response, write a factual unemotional letter and send it by Recorded Delivery (keeping a copy, of course) simply stating that the loner has your tack which you required to be returned in good condition within 10 days "or appropriate action will follow". IMO, there is no need at this stage to engage a solicitor as they do like to make things complicated -- and they charge by the hour!

Do not hesitate to follow up with a Small Claim. This can be done online. I think the defendant has to get a copy of your claim before you can proceed further but, if this is challenged, made sure of your ammunition for court action by having first obtained supporting statements from witnesses, yard staff, documentary evidence, etc. Also state how the tack can be identified with witness statements on condition. I would very definitely be encouraging the YO to sue for any outstanding fees.

Having gone through a similar experience, I know how stressful this can be. I had to collect three ponies (160 mile round trip?) when things went pear shaped. One was a bad loader but, thankfully, I'd had the foresight to go with a friend, a long rope, and a yard broom! We got the pony loaded while the guilty party watched from behind curtains in her house after stating that she'd be out!


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## Elbie (7 September 2014)

I'm astonished that when you, the OWNER, asked the mum for the tack back as you have the horse now, she asked her daughter and believed her. Sorry but why would you say you had the horse when you didn't?!

I would definitely now send a solicitors letter and log with police


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## Sugar_and_Spice (7 September 2014)

Why are the police not dealing with this? You know where the tack is and who has it, it belongs to you and they are refusing to hand it over. Why is this a civil matter? Surely that's the police's way of fobbing you off. 

If the woman had your car keys and your car and was refusing to return it, I'm sure the police would be interested! Is that because an insurance company would have to pay out for theft if its not recovered? Is your tack insured? Maybe a theft claim would see the police acting. Or because there's proof of ownership with a V5 document for a car? Do you have receipts for your tack OP?


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## Luci07 (7 September 2014)

Because very often it is deemed a civil matter if it comes down to one persons word against another. This is why police tend to not get involved with horse loans that go wrong end. I agree with your logic and support it though!


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## Lambkins (7 September 2014)

If it's not a police matter .. Why can't u pop round to hers and sort it out with her ?


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## Sugar_and_Spice (7 September 2014)

Lambkins said:



			If it's not a police matter .. Why can't u pop round to hers and sort it out with her ? 

Click to expand...

This! I'd be round there with ten mates, barge in and get it. If she phones the police you can tell them you were told its a civil matter so you went and collected your stuff. She's not denying the tack belongs to you, she's saying you can't have it because they still have the horse on loan, which isn't true so her argument is invalid. Even if they did still have the horse on loan, its your tack, if they didn't like being without tack they could give the horse back couldn't they?!  The longer this drags on for the more chance there is she will move or sell the tack. Small claims court wont necessarily get you the money back even if you win, I'd be doing everything I could to get my tack back.


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## missk (7 September 2014)

Was it in the agreement that the horse was  to be kept at your sisters yard? As the mother assumes the horse is still in her daughters possession I'd would be inclined to phone her back and ask her to meet you at your sisters yard, then ask her to explain what her daughter has done with said horse.

I can't fathom out as to whether the daughter is still using/making out she is still using the tack, surely if its kept at the mothers house she'd notice her daughter coming and going with it....odd one.


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## Fides (7 September 2014)

Sugar_and_Spice said:



			This! I'd be round there with ten mates, barge in and get it. If she phones the police you can tell them you were told its a civil matter so you went and collected your stuff. She's not denying the tack belongs to you, she's saying you can't have it because they still have the horse on loan, which isn't true so her argument is invalid. Even if they did still have the horse on loan, its your tack, if they didn't like being without tack they could give the horse back couldn't they?!  The longer this drags on for the more chance there is she will move or sell the tack. Small claims court wont necessarily get you the money back even if you win, I'd be doing everything I could to get my tack back.
		
Click to expand...

That's burglary...


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## Chestnut horse (7 September 2014)

Some people are just really weird, i also think there was an unfortunate break down of communication somewhere along the line. I would go to the Mum's house with the contract, and a picture of the horse now at your own premises  plus an explanatory  letter stating all the facts to date, so she can get the full details of the situation  and not just her daughters side( which to be fair she will side with). I would then suggest that she hand over the saddle etc to you as you do not wish to take further action but will be forced to do so if the equipment is not forthcoming, this will be through the small claims court and will leave a bad credit on her daughters credit rating which will have an effect for many years to come, and you would prefer not to follow this course of action. Hopefully this will be enough to make her see sense and hand over the items, with regard to your sisters bill - hey she is your sister and it is best to mark this up as experience and not pursue this particular avenue.
Good luck


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## Sven (7 September 2014)

I suspect loaner's Mum was/is paying for said horse, so if daughter admits she hasn't got it anymore then her funding will cease. A letter to the Mother explaining the situation with an invitation to verify facts should produce the desired response.


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## Honey08 (7 September 2014)

I really don't understand why you've not taken legal action yet.  They are making a fool of you.  The mother has proved that she has brought a spoiled brat with no morals up, there is no doing things nicely with these types.

Some parents nowadays should be PTS!


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## Luce85 (7 September 2014)

My sister is persuing her for her livery - that's not my doing, but I am going to pay her if she doesn't pay up! 
I'm unsure who paid for his livery Sven, but not sure how to play it.
I sent a letter with URGENT on, and have rang the police - they said they will investigate further, but I doubt they will do much! The mother has rang me again this morning, saying the daughter is going to take her to the yard to prove the horse is still here (HOW?!) but I said, I can meet you there, and prove the horse is not in her care, and have given her my sisters number as she is the yard owner to prove the horse is no longer there and the remaining livery is yet to be paid. I also asked her to bring the tack to the yard, so she can see her daughter ride the horse that isn't there, her mother said she will have no issue as I have every faith in my daughter that he is there.. Christ, this is enough to send me mad!

Tnavas - colic horse is doing a lot better today, hopefully out of the woods! 

Will most likely end up small claims court, I just want my tack back, it's such lovely tack that is fitted to him!


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## Sugar_and_Spice (7 September 2014)

Fides said:



			That's burglary...
		
Click to expand...

I know, but if I'm only thieving my own items back and the police are taking the line that its a civil matter and they don't want to get involved, then I'd take my chances! I'm all for sticking to the law, but when police are happy to stand by and watch while someone steals and sells another persons valuable possessions, I'd be thinking 'stuff the law'.


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## Sugar_and_Spice (7 September 2014)

I wonder if the daughter was going to go to a yard, point to a random horse and state it was hers? Does the mum know what yard horse was on or what horse looked like? Maybe Sven is right.


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## Dry Rot (7 September 2014)

If you follow the advice to use the direct action to get your tack back, you can always request that a police officer attends "to keep the peace" as you are worried there might be an altercation -- aren't you??


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## Molly'sMama (7 September 2014)

what, so this girl is taking her mum to a yard where there isn't a horse? how's that going to work in her favour? wow. some people. She really hasn't thought this through? 

ha, maybe she's bought an identical horse. That'd be interesting.


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## DipseyDeb (7 September 2014)

I wonder if she's managed to dupe some unsuspecting poor soul into loaning her their horse, had that's what she needs the tack for!   Can you not find out from Mum when she is taking her to see this horse, and arrange to meet them there with the passport?


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## Luci07 (7 September 2014)

Call the mother back tonight. Confirm you have notified the police and will be instigating legal proceedings first thing tomorrow. Confirm as well that livery has not been paid and the livery owner is also instigating proceedings. Advise mother that as this is now logged with the police, her daughter removing the tack from her parents would now be considered legal theft. No idea if that's true but worth a bluff.


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## Cowpony (7 September 2014)

Does the contract say that you loaned the horse with tack? If not, whether the daughter still has the horse or not is irrelevant. It's YOUR tack.


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## pixie (7 September 2014)

So when is the mother going to the yard?


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## Elbie (7 September 2014)

This is just bizarre. You tell the mother you have the horse (that you own!) but she says she has every confidence her daughter is telling the truth?!

Your sister can pursue unpaid livery bills through small claims but I'm not sure you can go down that route for the tack (someone correct me if I'm wrong) as I thought small claims was just for money owing, not property? 

Did they go to the yard today?


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## Dry Rot (7 September 2014)

Just bear in mind that if you want the full cooperation of the courts, you need to go with clean hands. They take a dim view of those who take the law into their own hands. Play it by the book and leave it to the other side to make the mistakes.


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## Goldenstar (7 September 2014)

Dry Rot said:



			Just bear in mind that if you want the full cooperation of the courts, you need to go with clean hands. They take a dim view of those who take the law into their own hands. Play it by the book and leave it to the other side to make the mistakes.
		
Click to expand...

I agree with this no silly stuff on your side personally I would send a solicitors letter PDQ and start proceedings in the small claims court .
It's a nuts situation , 
The main thing is you have the horse and he's in one piece


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## AmieeT (7 September 2014)

What difference should it make to the mother whether or not her daughter is still loaning the horse? You've asked for YOUR property back- any other information is irrelevant!

I for one would class the daughter's refusal to give you your property back as dishonest appropriation, which is the legal definition of theft. She has done the act, and she obviously has the intention to do so aswell. Go back to the police and demand that some response. If the tack is marked, as you say it is, you have proof that it belongs to you. 

Ax


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## Luce85 (7 September 2014)

Bringing her mom to see the horse tomorrow, she should know as she has seen Buzz before and the yard, so she shouldn't be able to lie about the horse or the yard.. 

Oh I am so happy I have him back Goldenstar, I don't know what I would have done if she had taken him that night.. But he is home now and safe, I only want the tack back so that I can get this girl out of my life, she is ridiculous and deluded, shame when things go wrong with this boyfriend, I am sure she will be wanting him back! 

I will be doing it by the book, I rang the mother simply to inform her and as tempting as it is to go over there and demand my tack back, I want to do it properly, depending on how tomorrow goes, I will proceed to send a solicitors letter and small claims court! Thanks for all the advice ladies, I really appreicate all the help x


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## Tnavas (7 September 2014)

PLease keep us informed of the outcome


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## Cinnamontoast (7 September 2014)

Dry Rot said:



			If you follow the advice to use the direct action to get your tack back, you can always request that a police officer attends "to keep the peace" as you are worried there might be an altercation -- aren't you??
		
Click to expand...

Exactly, ring the non emergency number, tell them what you're doing and go get your stuff! What a bonkers family!


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## missk (7 September 2014)

I had a saddler offer to sell my saddle on my behalf ...some months later when I was moving my pony away and still no sale I asked many a time for the saddle to be returned, got every excuse going including she had lost it but no saddle . I was told to write a letter requesting the return of my saddle or its worth, wasn't a costly sum but none the less it was mine, within 7 days of receiving the letter or I would be taking legal action. I was also told to hand the letter in person to the saddler which I did. Low and behold a cheque appeared in the post within the stated time. 

So maybe OP you could prepare a letter to hand over to mother/daughter stating that is what you intend to do before you spend out on a solicitor to do it for you.


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## pixie (8 September 2014)

make sure your sister has an itemised bill printed out, ready for when they arrive.


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## Grumpy Herbert (8 September 2014)

Cowpony said:



			Does the contract say that you loaned the horse with tack? If not, whether the daughter still has the horse or not is irrelevant. It's YOUR tack.
		
Click to expand...

I agree with this.  I think it's time to back off with the personal contact and get a solicitor's letter.  I got one a few years ago over a dispute with a former employer, and it worked a treat.  It didn't cost me much at all, I certainly wasn't charged by the hour.  Your ex loaner clearly thinks she's running circles round you - prove her wrong and start playing hard ball!  I reiterate what I said in my earlier post, if she refuses to return the items to you after you have repeatedly asked for them, then she is clearly intending to permanently deprive you of them and that is theft.  Report it to the police as such - if you don't get it back and you are insured, then you'll need a crime reference number for any claim.  It fair puts you off loaning, doesn't it!!!


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## nervous nelly (8 September 2014)

I would be expecting for ex loaner to fetch he  mother down and then make out that he ha  been stolen I've  night or something along those line keep us updated


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## Loubidy (8 September 2014)

You should be selling tickets for the showdown! Actually can't believe this is really happening, can't wait for an update!


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## Cowpony (8 September 2014)

Does the ex loaner know he's been moved from your sister's yard OP? I'm assuming that when she turned up with her trailer to take him away she was sent away with a flea in her ear and then you moved him back to your place after she'd left. Or did you tell her you were going to move him? 

Two things come to mind - either she thinks he's still at your sister's place and is expecting to turn up and show her mum a happy horse in his usual stable.....OR (and I don't want to worry you, but it's worth thinking about) she and her mum may be intending to turn up at your place and take him away, knowing you'll be at your sister's yard waiting for her there. May be worth making sure there are people around at your barn just in case she turns up. Sorry, my mind obviously works in devious ways! Just a thought.


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## rowan666 (8 September 2014)

Desperate for an update on this, ive got popcorn at the ready! 

On a serious note cowpony may well be right! Fingers crossed all is ok for you though


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## dibbin (8 September 2014)

Hope all goes ok and you manage to get your tack back - this girl sounds mental!


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## pixie (8 September 2014)

Did they turn up?


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## Floxie (8 September 2014)

Aarrrrr I want to know what happened!!


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## Clannad48 (8 September 2014)

Floxie said:



			Aarrrrr I want to know what happened!!
		
Click to expand...

me too!!!


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## Dave's Mam (8 September 2014)

And me!  I am hoping all is well & that no news is good news.


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## Red-1 (8 September 2014)

Third time this evening I have popped in to get an update. Sloe Gin at the ready for a really good read......... OP, any news????


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## Greylegs (8 September 2014)

Red-1 said:



			Third time this evening I have popped in to get an update. Sloe Gin at the ready for a really good read......... OP, any news????
		
Click to expand...

i'm on the red wine, but would love to see a satisfactory conclusion to this saga. (i.e. ... loaner turned up, mother very unimpressed, gave little madam a right telling off, gave OP her tack back and paid off livery bill  ... OP happy, loaner chastened, mother disgruntled, sister paid ... they all lived happily ever after.)

... i suspect that's not what happened but i await further news ....


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## Exploding Chestnuts (8 September 2014)

Luci07 said:



			Because very often it is deemed a civil matter if it comes down to one persons word against another. This is why police tend to not get involved with horse loans that go wrong end. I agree with your logic and support it though!
		
Click to expand...

It may be that because OP gave the tack willingly it cannot be deemed as stolen , this is what I was told, I just grabbed the goods of the idiot, while nice PC stood by my side , kind chap , I think you will find the police want to prevent breaches of the peace or something.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (8 September 2014)

Birds of a feather flock together, mother has in her possession goods which belong to OP, go to the police station and ask them to help  get them back, the mother has no right to hold them.
O by the way, it sometimes helps if you knock at the neighbour's door first and explain what has happened!


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## Luce85 (8 September 2014)

Update for you all..
We saw 2 very suscipious cars driving around by the yard, stopping and trying to look in, watching my yard that is, not my sisters.. So we had the very scary looking (but soft as a brush) dogs out loose, just incase anyone wanted to come in. See another very suscipious car with trailer attached, but kept going with usual duties. 

I got 2 withheld phonecalls and my car alarm went off, went out but nothing there, very strange, was feeling a little on edge, so could just all be a coincidence, but I'm not sure, in the 4 years of owning my car the alarm has never randomly gone off. 

Anyway, come 1 o'clock, make my way to sisters yard, and low and behold, mother is there, without her daughter, demanding why I have taken back Buzz, stating her daughter knew nothing about this and that her daughter saw him yesterday and he was fine, so apparently I took him last night? Anyway, I explained the situation, mother point blank refusing to believe me and said I will wait for my daughter, meanwhile, my sister had printed off an itemised livery bill, which she handed over to her, again saying it couldn't be true as the she was certain her daughter would not leave Buzz uncared for! So we are waiting for a good 45 minutes, until the daughter, boyfriend and a very scary looking man appeared out of no where, shouting at me and my sister, claiming we had no right to take the horse, no she would not be giving the tack back, and I had to return the horse within 24 hours (deluded girl!) 
By this, the mother realised she had been lied to once her daughter dropped herself in it, by shouting at the groom who stopped her from taking Buzz that night. The tack was in the mothers car, the boyfriend got the tack out put it in his own car and left.. I kept very calm, stated I had every right to bring him home as she was not abiding the contract we both signed, and her mother witnessed. I mentioned the letter and the solictor and the police, the girl didn't know what to say, started crying saying Buzz was her life and she offered to buy him off me there and then, sorry no. 

So, was left no better off, the mother kindly paid the outstanding livery bill, and said she would try to get the tack back for me, as she could understand there was some kind of misunderstanding, she sounded very worried when I mentioned the police, asking if I had told them the name of her daughter, (previous trouble maybe?). Left it at that and said I am still getting a solictor letter as the way she spoke to me, my sister and her staff was appauling, let alone her mother, who seemed very stressed out about it all.

I feel like it was a scene of a TV programme or a novel, christ knows what is going on. But I will be livid if my tack is harmed in anyway or sold! 

One thing to make me feel slightly better (but mean) her and this scary looking bloke who said nothing ran off through one of the fields, which happened to have a very grumpy mare, and some of the yearlings, who chased them right the way down, luckily no one was hurt, but I felt it was just. 

Can we all pray my tack isn't sold! x


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## AmieeT (8 September 2014)

Haha sounds like a saga!! Glad mother is no longer looking through rose tinted glasses.

Are you on facebook? Get the story as wide as possibly, and with pictures of the tack! Never know, someone decent might come across them/the tack.

Ax


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## Elbie (8 September 2014)

Oh my God! Well at least your sister got the bill paid so that's one thing. I can't believe the mother! I'm sorry, but it is YOUR HORSE!!! You are entitled to get YOUR property back, whether that be horse or tack or both! 

Hopefully though the mother know sees the truth and you will get your tack back. What a pallaver

Sorry, just to add, I can't believe you tell the mum you have the horse, mum says daughter saw him last night, then wants to wait for daughter as doesn't believe you. Sorry, but why would you lie?!


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## Exploding Chestnuts (8 September 2014)

The boyfriend stole the tack , so report it to police straight away, the longer it is out of your possession the more difficult the situation. You have no contract with bf, he has committed theft., You witnessed the act, now record the time and date, make a statement to the police and they will attend.
If the only contact you have is mothers address , give it to them.
Also mention scary bloke who intimidated you, and trespassed.


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## Dry Rot (8 September 2014)

Bonkers2 said:



			The boyfriend stole the tack , so report it to police straight away, the longer it is out of your possession the more difficult the situation. You have no contract with bf, he has committed theft., You witnessed the act, now record the time and date, make a statement to the police and they will attend.
If the only contact you have is mothers address , give it to them.
Also mention scary bloke who intimidated you, and trespassed.
		
Click to expand...

Exactly!  Delighted to see that the OP has won round 1. It seems she has handled it perfectly. Now off to the police for Stage 2.


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## cremedemonthe (8 September 2014)

Interesting thread and you have far more patience than I have with people like that.
When you get your tack back and I'm sure you will, if you live near me and want it checked over bring it round. If there's anything wrong with any of it, I'll find it and can provide you with a written report on it if needs be.
Oz (Saddler)


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## Goldenstar (8 September 2014)

Progress of sorts OP .
I do think you will need a letter from a solicitor to progress things on your side,try the police again it's worth a try .
Threatening you is not allowed try telling the police you feel threatened and about the odd stuff at your home .
Keep a close eye on Buzz I hope they are not nuts enough try to take him better  safe than sorry .
Do you have a friend a little way away that might keep him for a couple of weeks just in case ?


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## gembear (8 September 2014)

I can't believe how much of a spoilt brat this girl is.
Also glad the mother believed you in the end, although she should have believed you much sooner - blood thicker than water and all that.

Definitely report the boyfriend to Police for theft.
Unfortunately I doubt they'd be able to do much right away, unless the mother was willing to help them re his address/name.
And definitely get a Solicitor involved now.

And I would be quick about it, before the mother sides with her daughter again and refuses to help.

This girl has got a lot of growing up to do.
I hate that she's giving loaners such a bad name!


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## Exploding Chestnuts (9 September 2014)

I hope OP got the vehicle details.  I think OP is in a better position to be honest ........ and the mother allowed the bf to remove the stuff from her car, so not exactly whiter than white.


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## Sugar_and_Spice (9 September 2014)

gembear said:



			Definitely report the boyfriend to Police for theft.
Unfortunately I doubt they'd be able to do much right away, unless the mother was willing to help them re his address/name.
		
Click to expand...


If the police are investigating a crime, do people get a choice over whether they give out any relevant information they have? Without getting themselves in trouble, I mean.

OP I'm curious as to why you let them walk away with the tack? Had it been mine, I'd have phoned the police the minute the mother refused to give it back and wanted to wait for her daughter instead. I probably wouldn't have broken into her car but the second her car was unlocked I'd have been in there pulling the tack out. At least your sister got her livery bill paid.


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## misskk88 (9 September 2014)

Luce85, I think you need to stop playing so nicely now.

1, report boyfriend, mother and daughter for theft. If you have vehicle registrations or descriptions, all the better.Back this up with a letter from a Solicitor stating they have x amount of days to return it, or you will pursue a charge against them.
2, report all suspicious behaviour at the same time as reporting theft. This may prompt the police into taking your case a bit more seriously.
3, If their behaviour of continuing to turn up and harass your sister/you/whoever is about, kindly report them for harassment.
4, Perhaps ask the police to pay a visit to their house and explain exactly why they have no rights over  horse, tack, and anything else from the loan agreement.

Please act quickly, don't let them continue to mess about with YOUR belongings any longer.

Really hope you get this sorted OP. What a horrid situation and what a little brat this girl is.


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## Dave's Mam (9 September 2014)

cremedemonthe said:



			Interesting thread and you have far more patience than I have with people like that.
When you get your tack back and I'm sure you will, if you live near me and want it checked over bring it round. If there's anything wrong with any of it, I'll find it and can provide you with a written report on it if needs be.
Oz (Saddler)
		
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What a kind offer.


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## pip6 (9 September 2014)

Well done so far, good luck with rest. Definately report theft (as taking your property without your consent, infact against your express wishes it is theft) to police including car reg if you got it. Shame you found a bunny boiler as a sharer.


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## Honey08 (9 September 2014)

Yes, very kind offer Oz.

If you do get the solicitor's letter done, perhaps add that there is CCTV coverage on the horse. I don't trust this girl and her male cronies not to try again (thankfully they don't seem intelligent enough to do things quietly).

At least the mother paid and seems to be starting to see the light.  If the mention of the police spooked her get the official letter sent out ASAP.  I would definitely go back to the police.  Say they came to your property and you think they plan to steal the horse, they may visit, you never know.


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## Happy Hunter (9 September 2014)

Crumbs what a saga. Poor you OP.
I would definitely be taking steps to hide Buzz a good few miles away for a couple of weeks.
I would say that little visit was Harassment!

Hopefully you can get a suitable Police or Solicitors help now -   Mu Hunch is that Mother knows this is not the first instance of her daughter getting into trouble...

Kind offer Oz - Hope it doesn't come to that!!


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## Annagain (9 September 2014)

I feel a bit sorry for the mother in all this  - not half as much as I do for you OP - but nevertheless what a horrible way to find out your daughter is a dishonest, aggressive, irresponsible person who neglects horses and threatens people. 

I would definitely get a crime number. Report it to Police, tell them you don't need them to investigate at this stage as you know who has it, but you need a crime number to help the legal process and you may need help to recover your property if your attempts through the civil process fail or if the tack leaves their possession. 

I'm married to a police officer and he says they often respond better to the people who say "I don't want to waste your time but I need x from you, than those shouting and screaming and demanding action (not that I think you are) You may find they're more than happy to help as it will be a crime that is easy for them to 'detect' so it will add to their crime detection figures. They like straightforward cases and now the boyfriend has taken it (not the daughter with whom you had the cvil agreement) it's pretty straightforward.


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## Grumpy Herbert (9 September 2014)

How great is this forum and the people on it?  You get sensible advice, support and professional help should you need it! (kind offer from Oz the saddler)

I think you're not far off getting a resolution on this now.  The mother obviously doesn't want the police involved, so in the cold light of day here's hoping she persuades her little brat of a daughter and the moronic boyfriend to return the tack forthwith.  If not, you know what to do and don't hesitate to do it.  I agree with whoever posted that it might be wise to move Buzz for a bit, just in case.  Good luck with phase 2!


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## Luce85 (9 September 2014)

Hard to do a detailed reply on my phone, but the mother rang this morning saying she would try to get my tack back. Buzz has been moved to my broodmare barn where there is always someone there and cctv so he should be okay! But if anything else suscipious happens, I have somewhere he can go stay for the time being.

I wouldn't have let him take the tack but he just went off and took it out, as we werent standing on the car park but by the old stable, luckily we have his number plate and car details incase needed, rang back the police who said if I havent got my tack back after 6-7pm today, they will pursue ut further. 

Thank you very much Oz for a lovely offer, i very much appreciate it


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## MagicMelon (9 September 2014)

Good grief, that's crazy OP. I'm going to pick up my horse tomorrow from a loan home after I have ended the contract, am hoping it will be a simple pick-up...

I would keep a very close eye on your horse, perhaps even buy some old (not working necessarily) CCTV cameras off Ebay and stick them up as I would expect that would put anyone off messing about at your yard. I would absolutely report the theft of your tack to the police and get a crime ref number which I'd then get a solicitor to include in his letter to them demanding the tack back or further action will be taken. Perhaps worth just contacting the mother direct (if you are able) and telling her what you'll be sending your daughter if she doesn't return all tack within 24 hours. The mother sounds vaguely shocked at her daughters behaviour so may be able to sort it.

It amazes me how cocky some loaners can be thinking the horse is somehow fully theirs!  Do they not understand what a loan is and that as the owner you can take the horse and YOUR stuff back whenever you like?!


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## pixie (9 September 2014)

Glad to see that the mum is on your side at least


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## BeccyJay (9 September 2014)

Literally just read this whole thread - beginning to end - BELIEVE me they will be hoping you just give up.
Please bring me up to date:
Have you filed a police report on this girl?
If not please do. Contact your local CAB for free legal advice on the tack situation then file for a restraining order on this girl to keep her away from your property. If she breaches that she's in big time trouble! Xxx


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## Lead_changes (9 September 2014)

My goodness! What a little madam! Poor you and poor mother of the loanee, I feel she's probably had to clear up her daughters mess more then once.


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## Voxhorse (9 September 2014)

Funny how she was ok until the boyfriend came along, how much of an instigator has this A**hole been ? my gut tells me he is trouble, possibly demanding to come before your horse ie the less visits from her and when you stood your ground, he saw trouble which he probably thrives on and put ideas in her head while she didn't like her toy being taken away, him stirring the crap like hell, but it sounds like she is major league trouble all by herself! 

The poor Mum has probably been lied to and deceived all along, this stuff only makes people more wary of loaners, what a drama! 

Good Luck OP you must be stressed to hell xxx


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## el_Snowflakes (10 September 2014)

cinnamontoast said:



			OMG, does she know where he is now? Might be worth letting the police know that she plans to take your horse by giving them a call on 101. If you don't get the tack back, report it as stolen (if she intends to permanently deprive you of your property, that is theft). Hope she disappears!
		
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This, absolutely.


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## cremedemonthe (10 September 2014)

Well?
Have you got your tack back yet or are we going to have to send the boys/girls round 

Oz


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## Dry Rot (10 September 2014)

cremedemonthe said:



			Well?
Have you got your tack back yet or are we going to have to send the boys/girls round 

Oz
		
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Yes, maybe HHO should have its own base ball team!


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## Luce85 (10 September 2014)

Well.. No sign of the tack until 10 minutes..

My bridle has been returned covered in red paint, jumping saddle is unharmed from what I can tell, but my dressage saddle is scuffed and scratched to bits! I am livid. 
The fools obviously didn't see my CCTV which has got a clear picture of them throwing it over my fence, and their faces plus number plate of the car. 

Now what! Can I do anything to report this or is all down to experience? 
If the boys and girls want to go round I would very much welcome it!!!


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## Dave's Mam (10 September 2014)

I have no words.......


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## Fides (10 September 2014)

Tell the mother...


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## loopy3585 (10 September 2014)

call the police and ask them to view the CCTV images and surely it's criminal damage to your property. Yes they have returned it but they have also damaged it and should be made to pay for repairs or new if they can not be repaired!

i honestly can not understand some people! you've given this girl an amazing opportunity to loan your horse and she has treated you this way. there are many people who would have loved to have been in her position! i hope that she never gets the opportunity to do this to someone else and thank god you got to the yard in time the night she turned up to take him i dread to think what would have happened if not


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## _GG_ (10 September 2014)

Fides said:



			Tell the mother...
		
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Copy the footage from the CCTV, send it to the mother, with a bill for the damage and giving 14 days for payment before you proceed with a criminal damage complaint. Let the police know, get a crime reference number for criminal damage to your property and include that reference number in the letter. Finish the letter by reminding them that the CCTV works and say that it has been installed at all properties so any attempt at further damage will result in prosecution.


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## diamonddogs (10 September 2014)

OMG you couldn't make it up could you!


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## dibbin (10 September 2014)

_GG_ said:



			Copy the footage from the CCTV, send it to the mother, with a bill for the damage and giving 14 days for payment before you proceed with a criminal damage complaint. Let the police know, get a crime reference number for criminal damage to your property and include that reference number in the letter. Finish the letter by reminding them that the CCTV works and say that it has been installed at all properties so any attempt at further damage will result in prosecution.
		
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^^ This.  What a nasty piece of work.


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## Lead_changes (10 September 2014)

This is worse then Jeremy Kyle! You couldn't make this up!


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## ljohnsonsj (10 September 2014)

Have been following this from the beginning and must say i am so so happy Buzz is back in your care! 
Thank-god you got him out of there before it was him she was harming,and not the tack.

I honestly have no words. Report her for the damages and you need eyes in the back of your head with that one! Karma is a b!tch though, her time will come. Well done you for staying so calm and professional- I definitely wouldn't of been able too!


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## Elbie (10 September 2014)

This just keeps getting worse and worse.

Echo others, report to the police and tell the mother. I would also be tempted to show her the CCTV (just in case she decides to believe the little darling again). 

You couldn't write it could you


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## Honey08 (10 September 2014)

Perhaps contact the lovely Oz who offered to check your tack and ask them if they would write a report as to what damage (and cost) has been caused by the paint and throwing the saddles?  Then off to the small claims court you go to get yourself the funds for replacement tack. No need to be nice or go via mother anymore, you've got everything back, now claim for your damages.


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## Molly'sMama (10 September 2014)

_GG_ said:



			Copy the footage from the CCTV, send it to the mother, with a bill for the damage and giving 14 days for payment before you proceed with a criminal damage complaint. Let the police know, get a crime reference number for criminal damage to your property and include that reference number in the letter. Finish the letter by reminding them that the CCTV works and say that it has been installed at all properties so any attempt at further damage will result in prosecution.
		
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Absolutely top advice. No more playing about. That's so bad. As a dressage-r [and a human with empathy!!] I feel for the horror you must be feeling looking at your saddle.

Also - take pictures of the tack. Don't clean it off uyntil you've seen police, saddler to assess it ,etc.


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## Jenna1406 (10 September 2014)

OMG! what a nightmare situation you have gone through.

I was be livid if that was my tack but I echo what Molly'smama said, take pictures of it first.

x


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## cremedemonthe (10 September 2014)

What a cow.
If you are not near me OP take it to your local saddler for a good assessment, scuffs can sometimes be teased out if you know how and are lucky but if the damage is severe then a new seat for starters, perhaps flaps and skirts too if they really have gone to town.That's going to cost a fortune. 
Check the girth straps, stitching on them and the girth strap webbing, these are your real safety items and if they have been tampered with could lead to accidents.


The red paint if emulsion (doubtful) will come off with a good clean.If it's cellulose (car paint) then only thing that might remove it would be a spirit based cleaner or thinner but that of course could damage the leather at a cellular level let alone ruin the finish.Same applies to gloss paint but gloss can sometimes be chipped off carefully .
If the leather has enough fat left in it the paint may not get a good purchase on it in the first place.
Oz


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## joulsey (10 September 2014)

Just read this thread from start to finish, what an absolute fruitcake?

How and why are there people like this? Surely something just isn't wired up right in their head?!


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## misskk88 (10 September 2014)

_GG_ said:



			Copy the footage from the CCTV, send it to the mother, with a bill for the damage and giving 14 days for payment before you proceed with a criminal damage complaint. Let the police know, get a crime reference number for criminal damage to your property and include that reference number in the letter. Finish the letter by reminding them that the CCTV works and say that it has been installed at all properties so any attempt at further damage will result in prosecution.
		
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THIS 100 times over!

Did your contract state anything about the condition of your tack when you loaned it out, and who would be responsible for the cost/repairs/replacement if damaged, besides general wear and tear? When I put my horse out on loan, the loan agreement (bhs), covered all tack that would go to them, the condition it was in, with photos of the tack to prove what damage and scuffs were already present (protects them if I tried to claim for costs for bits that were already damaged- not that I would, but protects me if tack comes back in state!). Another point to make in any communications with this absolute brat and her mother.

If so, and it states that loanee is reponsible for any replacements or costs except for general wear and tear from use, I would happily send her a copy of the contract, ask for the money within so many days, and then seek support from the police for criminal damage if so- with a copy of the CCTV footage you have. In the meantime, let the police know of the situation. If the mum is still on your side, could you speak to her about the damage, and recovering the cost of replacement tack before pursuing anything else?

This girl may be young, but this is beyond immaturity. This is criminal damage/vandalism, and some of her behaviour borders on harassment. I am sure she is not that young that she is completely unaware of the consequences of her actions, and I don't think the threat of the law coming down on her would harm her at all. 

I honestly wonder how her mum is addressing the issue directly with the kid? I am not sure whether she is too soft on her/doesn't do enough, or requires sympathy because she has a reckless teen on her hands, with the influence of an idiot boyfriend.


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## cronkmooar (10 September 2014)

What a bizarre way to behave


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## dianchi (10 September 2014)

Am truely truely sorry to read all this!

Def photograph and get the CCTV, personally I would speak to the mother, as the money might be quicker forthcoming.

However, police involvement for criminal damage and you have proof so get her arrested.

What a nightmare for you


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## _GG_ (10 September 2014)

misskk88 said:



			THIS 100 times over!

Did your contract state anything about the condition of your tack when you loaned it out, and who would be responsible for the cost/repairs/replacement if damaged, besides general wear and tear? When I put my horse out on loan, the loan agreement (bhs), covered all tack that would go to them, the condition it was in, with photos of the tack to prove what damage and scuffs were already present (protects them if I tried to claim for costs for bits that were already damaged- not that I would, but protects me if tack comes back in state!). Another point to make in any communications with this absolute brat and her mother.

If so, and it states that loanee is reponsible for any replacements or costs except for general wear and tear from use, I would happily send her a copy of the contract, ask for the money within so many days, and then seek support from the police for criminal damage if so- with a copy of the CCTV footage you have. In the meantime, let the police know of the situation. If the mum is still on your side, could you speak to her about the damage, and recovering the cost of replacement tack before pursuing anything else?

This girl may be young, but this is beyond immaturity. This is criminal damage/vandalism, and some of her behaviour borders on harassment. I am sure she is not that young that she is completely unaware of the consequences of her actions, and I don't think the threat of the law coming down on her would harm her at all. 

I honestly wonder how her mum is addressing the issue directly with the kid? I am not sure whether she is too soft on her/doesn't do enough, or requires sympathy because she has a reckless teen on her hands, with the influence of an idiot boyfriend.
		
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Agree with this. Just to say that it is irrelevant what the contract does or doesn't say about the condition of the tack. The video footage showing criminal damage should constitute a breach of any contract on an implied duty of care basis. Certain things are always implied and do not need to be in writing.


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## misskk88 (10 September 2014)

_GG_ said:



			Agree with this. Just to say that it is irrelevant what the contract does or doesn't say about the condition of the tack. The video footage showing criminal damage should constitute a breach of any contract on an implied duty of care basis. Certain things are always implied and do not need to be in writing. 

Click to expand...

Oh the CCTV has nailed her coffin well and truly, and I really hope this girl gets a huge dose of reality asap! perhaps not needed, but was just an idea to give the OP some more ammunition in any letter/correspondence to said girl and mother!


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## _GG_ (10 September 2014)

misskk88 said:



			Oh the CCTV has nailed her coffin well and truly, and I really hope this girl gets a huge dose of reality asap! perhaps not needed, but was just an idea to give the OP some more ammunition in any letter/correspondence to said girl and mother! 

Click to expand...

True!


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## AmieeT (10 September 2014)

Good grief. 

Firmly agree with the advice above. I can't believe how awful the girl is!! 

I hope your saddle is repairable and that she gets what she deserves. How you've kept to seemingly calm is a miracle.

Ax


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## Dry Rot (10 September 2014)

What a saga! Personally, I would go to the police first before approaching the mother at all. The police will then advise what to do and if/when it goes to court, you will have done everything correctly. On the basis of what has been posted this far, I'd be adding a claim for the time and emotional stress involved, not to mention the costs of moving the horse. This is where you need a good lawyer.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (10 September 2014)

I would not give up send her a bill for a new saddle and bridle, but certainly report to police, it requires another crime number.
They stole it, that is one crime.
There is criminal damage that is another crime.


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## Luce85 (10 September 2014)

Luckily my brother in law is a fantastic lawyer, should I need one!
Went to the police, they apologised for not helping previously, and have taken photos, I looked ridiculous carrying 2 saddles and a bridle into the police station lol! 

Anyway, they have said that I can contact the mother but they advise that I leave it to them, they have got a copy of the CCTV and said they think I should be able to get money back for damages and possible compensation and even a restraining order should I feel unsafe again

Took my jump saddle to a very highly recommended saddler by me, who I have never used before, who checked it over and said it is fine, and he is checking dressage tomorrow, all done for free as he apparently reads the forum but doesn't post, so thank you for that!  

Misskk88 - yes, contract said tack should be returned in the same condition, and if deemed unacceptable then it would need to be replaced by loaner. 
Sad thing is she isn't that young, she is 21.. Not the way I thought a 21 year old would behave, an immature 15 year old maybe but she is just something else, or her boyfriend is! 
I have warned many local people to me just in case she trys to get a loan from them, shame as she rode him lovely, until this change! 

She has a few of his rugs, but she can keep them, once this is finally sorted, I am hoping she will be gone for good!

I just want to say thank you all again for the advice and support, some people really do give loans a bad name!


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## Honey08 (10 September 2014)

I would seriously think about that restraining order, keep her away from your horse and property.

Fab news you're getting police help at last.


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## _GG_ (10 September 2014)

I'm really pleased the police have now taken it more seriously and I would follow their advice. xxx


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## cremedemonthe (10 September 2014)

Glad you are managing to sort it out, Oz


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## Exploding Chestnuts (10 September 2014)

Whew, thank goodness, sounds like the pressure is off now, words almost fail me ....... quite surreal............


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## Dry Rot (10 September 2014)

Isn't it great when a plan comes together?

When all is settled, that saddler needs a mention on here. Not many are that helpful these days.

Hopefully, the loaner will learn from the experience and not blame everyone else for her own transgressions. "Be sure your sins will find you out".


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## Floxie (10 September 2014)

Wow, what a lovely saddler. HI, SILENT LURKY SADDLER! You're ace!


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## Elbie (10 September 2014)

I can't believe she is 21! OP from what you had said I would have guessed she was 16/17!


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## Luce85 (10 September 2014)

I have tried to talk mr saddle man into joining, he is fab!

Oz - your offer was lovely, but I was in such a rush to get it checked out, but thanks again x

Elbie - I know, shocking isn't it! From reading it from an outsider perspective I would have thought the same! Foolish girl!

Honey08 - I am seriously considering it, it worries me that she might try to attack again!


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## Voxhorse (11 September 2014)

21 ?? Bloody Hell! I was thinking 16! way old enough to know better. What she and her wonderful boyfriend have done is pure bullying and all you did was give her an opportunity, disgusting! she carries on like this she will end up behind bars with her Mum wondering where she went wrong.

Pleased the cops are listening to you, CCTV has it's uses  

Good Luck xx


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## pixie (12 September 2014)

did you get your dressage saddle checked out?
I hope you get this all sorted out, keep us up to date
xx


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## fiwen30 (15 September 2014)

I hope this was all sorted out alright in the end, OP!


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## Janovich (15 September 2014)

Been keeping up with this thread and I'm very pleased to hear that you're FINALLY getting somewhere with this...

There aren't enough descriptive words in the dictionary to do this so called 'loaner' justice OP... 

I'm just glad you've got your horse back safe and sound....and hopefully your dressage saddle and bridle an be sorted too.

What an atrocious young woman she is...


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## pixie (22 September 2014)

Hi OP, 
I'm assuming that you're not updating this due to it being in the hands of the police, but we'd love an update when everything gets resolved.  Hopefully it won't take too long
xx


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## Voxhorse (22 September 2014)

pixie said:



			Hi OP, 
I'm assuming that you're not updating this due to it being in the hands of the police, but we'd love an update when everything gets resolved.  Hopefully it won't take too long
xx
		
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Ditto


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## Lunchbox legend (23 September 2014)

Dry Rot said:



			[...]
When all is settled, that saddler needs a mention on here. Not many are that helpful these days.[...]
		
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Floxie said:



			Wow, what a lovely saddler. HI, SILENT LURKY SADDLER! You're ace!
		
Click to expand...

I'm glad the police have finally taken this seriously.  It all sounds so horrible and frightening on so many levels.  Thank goodness there are some kind people around ("silent lurky saddler"   and Oz) to help make things right in the world  .

Fingers, paws and hooves crossed, back here, that things start to settle down for you again soon.


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## Luce85 (4 October 2014)

Update for you all.. it's been quite eventful. 

We now have a restraining order, I thought I would leave it, the police were going to pursue her for me in order to gain the money back for the damage caused to my saddles and bridle. I wasn't too keen on getting involved, so they kindly offered to do it and keep me updated, they were honestly fantastic, and I only had to deal with the things that required my being there. 

All going well, then she decided to pose as someone interested in one of our youngstock we were selling, one of the new girls (in her defense had no clue as she had only just started) who greeted her and showed her to the indoor, she came with said boyfriend who asked where the toilets were, was pointed in the direction and then said if he got lost to just ask another groom to take him back. He was sneaking around, trying to find Buzz I presume. Also managed to find his way to the tack room, and was looking at all the saddles.. I still have no idea what his intention was he was definitely snooping around. Anyway, I was watching one of the girls have a lesson when I was told the person here to see the youngster was here in the indoor, the particular youngster is one of my favourites, so I went to have a chat with them, immediately realised it was her, she started shouting her mouth off, que my groom being like hang on where is the boyfriend, he had made a run for it, luckily he couldn't find Buzz, or take any saddles, he looked directly into my CCTV camera and saw there was CCTV and then left the tack room quite quickly. Informed the police of this, and now we have been given a restraining order against the little witch and her horrendous boyfriend, so I hope that is the end of all this. The girl was marched off the yard promptly, silly girl. 

Hopefully now a happy future for us all! 

Sorry to drag this back up, but I thought I would inform you all of her shocking behaviour. Couldn't make it up!


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## dogatemysalad (4 October 2014)

Goodness, what a whacko ! She really should take her medication.


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## Equi (4 October 2014)

Hope you have put her on dodgy dealers lol


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## fiwen30 (4 October 2014)

Oh my god, what a fruit loop! I hope the restraining order does the job.


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## Elbie (4 October 2014)

Holy moly. What is her problem?! She sounds a bit crackers.


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## smellsofhorse (4 October 2014)

What a weirdo!

Can't believe they tried that at your yard!

Hopefully the restraining order will keep them away.

Any news on the livery money owed to your sister or compensation for repairs of tack?


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## Loubidy (4 October 2014)

Thanks for the update.

That's insane!!!! Why can't she leave it?!


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## Echo Bravo (4 October 2014)

Perhaps you should put both their photos up and send them to livery yards etc so other people won't get caught out like you have.


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## Honey08 (4 October 2014)

I thought she'd be back and that you'd need that restraining order.  Strange girl, she is obviously deluded and seems to have convinced herself and her boyfriend that she has a right to Buzz. Thankfully she seems quite stupid in her plans, and doesn't think!  What did she shout at you?  

Thanks for the update, I was thinking about you and hoping all was ok.  Fingers crossed for you.  I don't think she will be successful in her attempts, she is too stupid, but I wouldn't be surprised if she ends up getting herself arrested.  Did you recover any damages re the saddles?


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## Grumpy Herbert (5 October 2014)

Geez, this one's a gift that keeps on giving!  I wish she and the boyfriend would just crawl back into whichever swamp they've been bottom feeding in and leave you alone.  They sound seriously unhinged.

There seems to be a breed of very unpleasant, aggressive and arrogant young people (and I've found it mainly to be girls) around now.  They think they have a divine right to behave exactly as they please, and have things exactly their way at all times.  Glad you're proving to this particular one that that's not the case.

I hope it all resolves itself soon, and the little witch leaves you alone.  Don't back off now, though, she needs to be taught a lesson in life - you don't treat people this way.  Can you print off the CCTV pictures and put them up in the tack room at your yard so everyone knows who they are and stops them coming on the yard again?


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## Greylegs (5 October 2014)

Continuing to read with horror. What is wrong with this girl, that she thinks this is OK behaviour.  I'm pleased you're having a good reaction from the police. I does help to restore you faith in them, when we hear of some many times when they don't seem to be interested in things at all.

Out of interest, what part of the country are you in? We maybe all need to keep an eye out for her in case she pops up at our doors!!

Hope this is the end of it now ....


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## TigerTail (5 October 2014)

Wowzer what a lovely individual. A short sharp reality check is needed and frankly Id be prosecuting for the damages.

I had similar when a 'friend' left the place we had taken on to set up together, leaving me with the previous places livery bill to foot alone and the new bills for the new place which she was sposed to be going halves on. She wrote to me demanding half the price of a small muck trailer we had bought together which came to less than the livery bill which I replied with and basically told her to go jump as I had the rest of the bills to foot. Day after the letter would've arrived I go down to find the trailer trashed, battery stolen - horses had gone through electric fencing and mine had some nasty wounds as a result - several rugs dually head collar etc all gone.

Got her well and truly served as the police found everything in her car the biatch - some people shouldn't exist and def shouldn't procreate!


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## thatsmygirl (5 October 2014)

Wow just wow.
Iv just gone through the whole thread, total madness what a complete nutcase. And to turn up again at your yard, what is wrong with her!! 

Hopefully its now all over but I really feel for you having to go through that.


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## Luce85 (5 October 2014)

fiwen30 - Same here, I really hope it does the job, I am fed up of watching my back, for simply removing my horse from her care! 

Smellsofhorse - Her mother repaid my sister for the livery, as for my tack damage, the police are working on getting compensation, I am looking into if my insurance covers it though as she did it, so it's a bit complicated. But the police have said they are working small claims court so hopefully! Tbf I will take the loss of the tack value if it means she ******* off!! 

Echo Bravo - All my local yards and people I know have been informed, such a shame as she was a great loaner until the boyfriend came along! 

Honey08 - She basically just screamed and shouted how she had the right to buy said youngster as I 'stole' Buzz away from her, and the tack which was 'hers' and how much happier Buzz was with her etc etc, so I kept my calm and simply replied that Buzz is happiest at home, he is with all his friends, he has my love and affection, aswell as my whole teams and no I can choose who I sell my youngsters too, and it definitely will not be her! Had a yard meeting, they are now all aware of who she is, even my vet, farrier, back lady etc they are all aware and will be on the look out incase she does happen to try again. 

She shouldn't be coming near again, it is just so horrible that feeling of having the whole yard on the look out, and feeling they have to question visiters that come to the yard. But hopefully this restraining order will do the trick and keep her and her nasty boyfriend away! I really am grateful to the police, it took a while but they pulled up their socks and are now dealing with things properly, they even came to meet Buzz! 

Thanks everyone for your on going support and words of wisdom, hopefully I won't have to do any further updates, and won't hear of her doing this to anyone elses horses!


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## Ibblebibble (5 October 2014)

I'm surprised police are dealing with the compensation claim through the small claims court for you, i've always thought you did small claims yourself?


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## Luce85 (5 October 2014)

They are working alongside me, they have a lot more evidence that can be used against her. They are being very helpful with dealing with it all, as it can be very personal, especially with this issue.

I thought that but they offered the help so more than happy to take it


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## WelshD (5 October 2014)

Ibblebibble said:



			I'm surprised police are dealing with the   compensation claim through the small claims court for you, i've always thought you did small claims yourself?
		
Click to expand...

Amazed that theyd touch it with a bargepole let alone assist with it. Dont they have better things to do with their time? 

Wasnt there another horse called Buzz on here that seemed to attract a lot of drama?...


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## Luce85 (5 October 2014)

Considering how poorly they dealt with the theft of my tack, the livery and the near theft of my horse - the officer offered her help, I'm not complaining.

Unsure what you are trying to get at WelshD? Surely a coincidence if there is? There are a lot of horses on this forum that share names?


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## Ibblebibble (5 October 2014)

small claims is usually pretty straight forward, you prove she damaged the tack and the court will either award for you or against you,  you said the police were taking it through small claims for compensation for you which struck me as odd as it just doesn't work that way.


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