# Why was this horse put down?



## OWLIE185 (24 September 2014)

Why was this horse put down?
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news...9-2014&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter


----------



## Meowy Catkin (24 September 2014)

It says why.




			The gelding, who was thought to be about three-years-old, had five stab wounds and was euthanased by a vet at the scene to prevent further suffering.
		
Click to expand...


----------



## RunToEarth (24 September 2014)

Almost as barbaric as the racehorse that was shot after it's injuries. Who in the right mind would think to PTS horses who are suffering immense pain when they could try to nurture them back to health for their own gratification at great suffering to the horse?


----------



## cobgoblin (24 September 2014)

Faracat said:



			It says why.
		
Click to expand...

Actually it doesn't really.
Depends how deep the stab wounds were and what was punctured. The horse is still standing and doesn't appear to be bleeding profusely externally. Had this been a private horse in a field I would suspect a great deal more would have been done, but I see a certain organisation was involved.
Such a shame, looks a sweet soul.


----------



## RunToEarth (24 September 2014)

cobgoblin said:



			Actually it doesn't really.
Depends how deep the stab wounds were and what was punctured. The horse is still standing and doesn't appear to be bleeding profusely externally. Had this been a private horse in a field I would suspect a great deal more would have been done, but I see a certain organisation was involved.
Such a shame, looks a sweet soul.
		
Click to expand...

To prevent further suffering of an animal - is that not justified? Horses get put down for far less. 

Horses do not need to be on the floor to be worthy of being put to sleep - I had one with a broken leg in several places who remained stood up.

ETA - not bleeding much externally counts for relatively little with stab wounds - he could have ruptured organs?


----------



## Meowy Catkin (24 September 2014)

CG - So you don't believe that the Vet assessed the deepness and placement of the wounds and made a judgement based on what he/she found as to the horse's chance of recovery?


----------



## touchstone (24 September 2014)

I would imagine it could be hard to tell what internal damage had occurred, a wound that looks quite innocuous could be lethal.   I'd also think that they may have been unable to trace the owner, leaving the authorities to pick up the bill, and as hard as it is to face, they can't just spend thousands on an individual horse which would need livery etc as well as vet treatment.   Not the wrong decision at all considering how the horse was being kept imo.


----------



## Deseado (24 September 2014)

It was put down because the vet in attendance recommended it based on his/her professional assessment of the injuries. As was the horse shot after shattering a fore cannon (a non-survivable injury). Not everything can be fixed; not everything should be fixed. Sometimes it is more humane to euthanise.


----------



## smellsofhorse (24 September 2014)

I have not read the link but know the issue you are talking about.

The bet would have assess the horse.subs it could have survived with lots of lexical attention but if it was owned by an "organisation" then they probably didn't have the time or money.
The SMS issue could have accorded if privately owned. Some people aren't insured, you don't know of the horses had any other previous issues

Poor horse and horrible person that did it.


----------



## cobgoblin (24 September 2014)

RunToEarth said:



			To prevent further suffering of an animal - is that not justified? Horses get put down for far less. 

Horses do not need to be on the floor to be worthy of being put to sleep - I had one with a broken leg in several places who remained stood up.

ETA - not bleeding much externally counts for relatively little with stab wounds - he could have ruptured organs?
		
Click to expand...

I don't think you read my post properly.
I did not discount the possibility of internal damage, but I would query whether this was so easy to ascertain at the roadside. Looking at the site of the stab wounds, of which only four are visible there is a possibility of puncture of the plura or peritoneum, but only if the stab wounds were deep enough. Had the article said that this was the case then it would have explained why the horse was put down.


----------



## Goldenstar (24 September 2014)

About twenty five years ago my old pony was the victim of a attack by a troubled youth with a machete .
The pony was in a field where my parents live and had known the troubled youth since he was in a pushchair .
The wound to the quarter was a foot long and eight inches deep at it's deepest point three vets worked to save her and operated in the field where it happened .
There's was a lot of blood it was a shocking experience.
She did survive and lived a long time after but it was touch and go whether it was reasonable and her best interest to try to save her .
It's a decision really that has nothing to do with anyone except the vet and owner.


----------



## Moomin1 (24 September 2014)

cobgoblin said:



			I don't think you read my post properly.
I did not discount the possibility of internal damage, but I would query whether this was so easy to ascertain at the roadside. Looking at the site of the stab wounds, of which only four are visible there is a possibility of puncture of the plura or peritoneum, but only if the stab wounds were deep enough. Had the article said that this was the case then it would have explained why the horse was put down.
		
Click to expand...

So you seriously expect a detailed account of why the vet came to that decision?  The vet made a decision based on their experience and expertise.  It's not for you to demand to know why and how they came to that conclusion, and it's a little much to expect any more than what has already been said in the article to be published to the general public.


----------



## muckypony (24 September 2014)

I'm sure some people might think that I'm the worst person for saying this, but where do you think the pony would have ended up had it been treated? 

No doubt amongst the other thousands of unwanted horses and ponies looking for new homes. There could have been a far worse future ahead for him....


----------



## Lammy (24 September 2014)

I think the authorities should have spent thousands of pounds to perform surgery on this unfortunate gypsy pony which probably has other veterinary needs such as lice, worms etc and then when it's fixed (if it did survive the surgery that is) it can go and take up room looking for a new home which could possibly take years. (sarcasm).

I don't see the problem. A vet made a professional decision on a horse whose owners would probably be untraceable who had 5 serious injuries. Was this thread made just to wind people up?


----------



## cobgoblin (24 September 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			So you seriously expect a detailed account of why the vet came to that decision?  The vet made a decision based on their experience and expertise.  It's not for you to demand to know why and how they came to that conclusion, and it's a little much to expect any more than what has already been said in the article to be published to the general public.
		
Click to expand...

The question was 'why was this horse put down?' The article says it was to prevent further suffering, which is the universal answer and tells you nothing.Had I been there,then yes, I would have demanded to know how and why they came to that conclusion.


----------



## risky business (24 September 2014)

I can understand where your coming from Op, when I first saw the picture of the pony it didn't look 'bad'.

But a picture is just a second in time and you don't know what the actual extent of the injuries where. There would be no reason for the publisher to specify the details only the facts of the case.

Either way the horse is gone.


----------



## Moomin1 (24 September 2014)

cobgoblin said:



			The question was 'why was this horse put down?' The article says it was to prevent further suffering, which is the universal answer and tells you nothing.Had I been there,then yes, I would have demanded to know how and why they came to that conclusion.
		
Click to expand...

You could demand all you like.  It really isn't your decision and there wouldn't have been anything you could have done about it in any case.

I'm not quite sure what your point is about it all.  Are you suggesting somehow that the horse was wrongly pts?


----------



## hotair (24 September 2014)

muckypony said:



			I'm sure some people might think that I'm the worst person for saying this, but where do you think the pony would have ended up had it been treated? 

No doubt amongst the other thousands of unwanted horses and ponies looking for new homes. There could have been a far worse future ahead for him....
		
Click to expand...

This is very true and i totally agree. Yes it is awful what happened to the poor pony but pts is not the worst thing that could of been done given the circumstances


----------



## FionaM12 (24 September 2014)

Lammy said:



			I don't see the problem. A vet made a professional decision on a horse whose owners would probably be untraceable who had 5 serious injuries. Was this thread made just to wind people up?
		
Click to expand...

This.


----------



## Goldenstar (24 September 2014)

cobgoblin said:



			The question was 'why was this horse put down?' The article says it was to prevent further suffering, which is the universal answer and tells you nothing.Had I been there,then yes, I would have demanded to know how and why they came to that conclusion.
		
Click to expand...

And they would have been perfectly within their rights not to tell you.
You can't tell anything from those photos I know my pony was extremely lucky her eight inch deep wound was contained within the muscles of her quarters and nothing vital was damaged, if I had decided to PTS on the day I would have been pretty pissed off if some random MOP had thought they had the right to demand answers.
There's any number of reasons that the vet might have taken this decision.
Perhaps the ponies situation played a part in the desision,who knows,the country is overwhelmed with poor quality stock with bad owners .


----------



## Ellen Durow (24 September 2014)

And who, "in their right mind", would put a horse through a great deal of pain and distress by trying to keep it alive in the teeth of the vet's advice to euthanize the poor thing. There is an old saying which is often used in human medicine when a patient is on death's doorstep with little that can be done - "Thou shalt not kill; but needst not strive, officiously, to keep alive"

Not the same thing but my 22 year old horse has a cataract and is nearly blind in one eye. The vet gave me the options: a)I could send him to the University Vet Hospital (50 miles away) for assessment, then bring him home and when the results came back I could return him to the hospital for an operation under general anaesthetic. or b) I could leave well alone and "keep an eye on it". 

I thought long and hard and did my research and when the vet came to do a check up I told him I'd decided to take the latter course as I didn't think it was fair to subject my horse to all of that. He told me that that was the right decision and that horses can do perfectly well with only one eye. 

Obviously it isn't safe to ride on the road but we have direct access to a very good bridleway and plenty of fields and manages to use on the yard.

However, when I mentioned this among other livery clients there were those (you know, all those unqualified "vets" who know better than vets who have trained for years) who said I was wicked and mean not to stump up for the operation (which I could afford to do) and several of them are not speaking to me. Do I care? I trust my vet and he and I know what is best for my horse, not people who are just on-lookers. 

There are some very odd people about.


----------



## Echo Bravo (24 September 2014)

And some people live in cloud cuckoo land not the real world "Sigh"


----------



## cobgoblin (24 September 2014)

Z



Moomin1 said:



			You could demand all you like.  It really isn't your decision and there wouldn't have been anything you could have done about it in any case.

I'm not quite sure what your point is about it all.  Are you suggesting somehow that the horse was wrongly pts?
		
Click to expand...

I am wondering how much effort was put into finding the owner and whether the decision to PTS was purely a medical decision, or rather based on the fact that it was probably a traveller's horse. There is also the question of the influence of the rspca, which I'm afraid I don't hold in very high regard.


----------



## Ibblebibble (24 September 2014)

perhaps the OP was hoping for an RSPCA bashing thread?!,except it s not the RSPCA who make the decision, it is the attending vet.


----------



## Ibblebibble (24 September 2014)

cobgoblin said:



			Z

I am wondering how much effort was put into finding the owner and whether the decision to PTS was purely a medical decision, or rather based on the fact that it was probably a traveller's horse. There is also the question of the influence of the rspca, which I'm afraid I don't hold in very high regard.
		
Click to expand...

is the owner likely to come forward if they're going to be faced with a huge vets bill?? i highly doubt it in this case


----------



## Moomin1 (24 September 2014)

cobgoblin said:



			Z

I am wondering how much effort was put into finding the owner and whether the decision to PTS was purely a medical decision, or rather based on the fact that it was probably a traveller's horse. There is also the question of the influence of the rspca, which I'm afraid I don't hold in very high regard.
		
Click to expand...

Yes, I am sure the vet couldn't be bothered doing any more for the horse, based on the fact that it may have been a traveller's horse.  Perhaps you could find out who the vet was, and give them a call..'demand' a post mortem maybe?..


----------



## Ellen Durow (24 September 2014)

cobgoblin said:



			I don't think you read my post properly.
I did not discount the possibility of internal damage, but I would query whether this was so easy to ascertain at the roadside. Looking at the site of the stab wounds, of which only four are visible there is a possibility of puncture of the plura or peritoneum, but only if the stab wounds were deep enough. Had the article said that this was the case then it would have explained why the horse was put down.
		
Click to expand...

An experienced vet surgeon would consider more than the external appearance of the horse and it's wounds. S/he would have some idea from the external position of the wounds what internal damage had been done and would base his/her prognosis on that and the horse's vital signs. As someone else has said, a horse in deep shock may show no visible signs of distress but heartbeat, blood pressure, temperature and other signals would help THE PROFESSIONAL to diagnose the horse's chances and a horse in deep shock stands little chance of surviving the journey to hospital let alone an operation to repair the damage.

In my 60 years with horses I have seen too many cruelly sentimental people put their horses through a lot of unnecessary pain and suffering due to their own selfishness. I love my horse dearly and I would do anything reasonable to save his life but when the vet says it's time I hope that I will have the strength of character to let him go .


----------



## Goldenstar (24 September 2014)

OP I find your attitude to this story really bizarre , I just can't understand why anyone would think other than poor horse and reflect on the huge roll luck plays in horses lives . 
How much time would you expect a vet/ police officer / officer from a welfare organisation to spend trying to find an owner when faced with a bleeding wounded horse at the side of the road .


----------



## Ellen Durow (24 September 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			Yes, I am sure the vet couldn't be bothered doing any more for the horse, based on the fact that it may have been a traveller's horse.  Perhaps you could find out who the vet was, and give them a call..'demand' a post mortem maybe?..
		
Click to expand...

And pay for it perhaps (sarcasm off)


----------



## Ladyinred (24 September 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			Yes, I am sure the vet couldn't be bothered doing any more for the horse, based on the fact that it may have been a traveller's horse.  Perhaps you could find out who the vet was, and give them a call..'demand' a post mortem maybe?..
		
Click to expand...

I find it quite concerning how often I agree with Moomin lately. This thread is another instance.

I tire of trying to explain that there are many fates worse than death, particularly for that type of horse in the current economic climate.


----------



## blitznbobs (24 September 2014)

At the end of the day the pony was treated by a qualified vet . Animals are pts all the time ... For much less reasons - for a pony with extensive damage in need of extensive exploratory surgery I think it's a perfectly reasonable outcome... Surely the questioning should not be of the vet but do the **insert suitable expletive ** who stabbed the pony i the first place


----------



## cobgoblin (24 September 2014)

Goldenstar said:



			And they would have been perfectly within their rights not to tell you.
You can't tell anything from those photos I know my pony was extremely lucky her eight inch deep wound was contained within the muscles of her quarters and nothing vital was damaged, if I had decided to PTS on the day I would have been pretty pissed off if some random MOP had thought they had the right to demand answers.
There's any number of reasons that the vet might have taken this decision.
Perhaps the ponies situation played a part in the desision,who knows,the country is overwhelmed with poor quality stock with bad owners .
		
Click to expand...

Firstly, if the decision was sound no one would mind answering the question.
Secondly, what's a MOP?


----------



## Ladyinred (24 September 2014)

MOP - member of (the) public.


----------



## PaddyMonty (24 September 2014)

Ellen Durow said:



			In my 60 years with horses I have seen too many cruelly sentimental people put their horses through a lot of unnecessary pain and suffering due to their own selfishness.
		
Click to expand...

and all in the name of love.


----------



## Moomin1 (24 September 2014)

cobgoblin said:



			Firstly, if the decision was sound no one would mind answering the question.
Secondly, what's a MOP?
		
Click to expand...

Who exactly do you expect to answer the question?

Do you presume that miraculously, the vet involved will be reading your thread and give you a detailed description of each injury, and justify their actions, just to satisfy you?


----------



## RunToEarth (24 September 2014)

cobgoblin said:



			Z

I am wondering how much effort was put into finding the owner and whether the decision to PTS was purely a medical decision, or rather based on the fact that it was probably a traveller's horse. There is also the question of the influence of the rspca, which I'm afraid I don't hold in very high regard.
		
Click to expand...

I don't hold the RSPCA in high regard, but I can see the bigger picture that apparently you can't. 

Have you ever been in a situation where you have to make tough decisions about horses quickly, based on what is in front of you at that time? The vet would have a regard to the horse, it's owners, the situation and any potential danger a flight animal in pain may cause to the general public around about. 

But evidently you have already decided that the vet was prejudiced towards travellers and that is that.


----------



## Maesfen (24 September 2014)

Simply put OP.  What's it got to do with you?

Unless it's your horse, it's nobody else's business who puts a horse down or why; they don't have to have a reason but in this case they acted humanely; many horses would wish for the same in the same circumstances.


----------



## Fides (24 September 2014)

A horse cannot go through major exploratory surgery to determine the extent of the internal injuries - that just isn't humane and that was why the horse was PTS. Grief, colic surgery is bad enough


----------



## cobgoblin (24 September 2014)

RunToEarth said:



			I don't hold the RSPCA in high regard, but I can see the bigger picture that apparently you can't. 

Have you ever been in a situation where you have to make tough decisions about horses quickly, based on what is in front of you at that time? The vet would have a regard to the horse, it's owners, the situation and any potential danger a flight animal in pain may cause to the general public around about. 

But evidently you have already decided that the vet was prejudiced towards travellers and that is that

Not the vet.
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Ibblebibble (24 September 2014)

Ladyinred said:



			I find it quite concerning how often I agree with Moomin lately. This thread is another instance.
		
Click to expand...

shhhh don't tell her but same here!!


----------



## Moomin1 (24 September 2014)

cobgoblin said:





RunToEarth said:



			I don't hold the RSPCA in high regard, but I can see the bigger picture that apparently you can't. 

Have you ever been in a situation where you have to make tough decisions about horses quickly, based on what is in front of you at that time? The vet would have a regard to the horse, it's owners, the situation and any potential danger a flight animal in pain may cause to the general public around about. 

But evidently you have already decided that the vet was prejudiced towards travellers and that is that

Not the vet.
		
Click to expand...

What are you going on about?

You clearly have no clue how these things work.
		
Click to expand...


----------



## luckyoldme (24 September 2014)

I don t think its fair to say that its only travellers who would consider cost of treatment when deciding pts or not.
You have to look at the big picture...I know its upsetting but it really is between the horse, the owner and the vet why the dscision was made.


----------



## cobgoblin (24 September 2014)

I think it's very interesting how threads on this forum turn into a form of Chinese whispers, with posters being ascribed sentiments and reasoning that they have never expressed.
I have never said that the horse should not have been PTS.
The article merely states that the horse was PTS to prevent further suffering. This could be interpreted as a myriad of things:
It could be that the horse had sustained a mortal injury.
It could be that the horse sustained a treatable injury but had other problems and was PTS.-
It could be that the horse was treatable but the rspca decided that it did not want to pay for treatment because it might be left with the bill (in which case why not be honest about it?).
It could be that the animal was PTS because the owner could not be found to make a decision.

I'm sure there are probably many other alternatives, but in answer to the question 'why was this horse put to sleep' - no one knows because they weren't there!


----------



## Moomin1 (24 September 2014)

cobgoblin said:



			I think it's very interesting how threads on this forum turn into a form of Chinese whispers, with posters being ascribed sentiments and reasoning that they have never expressed.
I have never said that the horse should not have been PTS.
The article merely states that the horse was PTS to prevent further suffering. This could be interpreted as a myriad of things:
It could be that the horse had sustained a mortal injury.
It could be that the horse sustained a treatable injury but had other problems and was PTS.-
It could be that the horse was treatable but the rspca decided that it did not want to pay for treatment because it might be left with the bill (in which case why not be honest about it?).
It could be that the animal was PTS because the owner could not be found to make a decision.

I'm sure there are probably many other alternatives, but in answer to the question 'why was this horse put to sleep' - no one knows because they weren't there!
		
Click to expand...

Yes, you are right, it could have been any one of those.  

Still not sure what the point in the thread was.


----------



## Wagtail (24 September 2014)

I think that if the cob had owners that would be prepared to dress and clean the wounds daily that the he would not have been PTS. As it happens there are so many such animals that are not wounded to take care of that I expect the decision to PTS was a financial one as well as a humane one.


----------



## eggs (24 September 2014)

You only have to read newspaper reports about Zara Phillips the show jumper to realise that not all reporting is complete and accurate....

Some years ago I had to have have a horse pts as he had received a massive internal injury in an accident.  The only visible sign of any injury was a scrape on his stifle.  The vets took his vital signs which were much higher than the visible injury would suggest, looked at his mucous membranes - much paler than they should have been been, x-rayed him with nothing shown on x-ray and then did an abdominal tap which provided all the evidence that this was one very seriously sick horse.

There is nothing to suggest that the vet didn't do any of the above (and admittedly none that they did do any of the above) but a decision was taken in the best interest of the pony.


----------



## Goldenstar (24 September 2014)

cobgoblin said:



			Firstly, if the decision was sound no one would mind answering the question.
Secondly, what's a MOP?
		
Click to expand...

I can tell you there's no way I go around discussing desisions I have taken with random people I don't know .
Why on earth should anyone be required to discuss anything with people who have up no right to know .
That vet had a client who was paying his bill that prevents him discussing his desisions with anyone who fancies involving themselves .


----------



## conniegirl (24 September 2014)

Can I also point out here given the size of the entry wounds and the nature of the people who have likely done this we are not talking about a little kitchen knife, I would hazard a guess at a Bowie style knife so could be upto about a foot long. It may be less a case of what internal organs have been pierced more a case of what hasn't, all it would need is for the intestines to have been nicked and the vet would have had no option! It's hard enough for a human to survive a gut rupture let alone an animal with as delicate a gut as a horse


----------



## cobgoblin (24 September 2014)

Goldenstar said:



			I can tell you there's no way I go around discussing desisions I have taken with random people I don't know .
Why on earth should anyone be required to discuss anything with people who have up no right to know .
That vet had a client who was paying his bill that prevents him discussing his desisions with anyone who fancies involving themselves .
		
Click to expand...

I was talking about the horse in the article where NO owner was present. Who'd want to ask you?


----------



## Inthemud (24 September 2014)

Maybe it was PTS just to wind you up OP, or to discover your so well thought out opinions....

Get a grip.


----------



## Moomin1 (24 September 2014)

cobgoblin said:



			I was talking about the horse in the article where NO owner was present. Who'd want to ask you?
		
Click to expand...

Who'd want to ask them?  What's the difference a charity/vet taking a decision to pts, than an owner? Got nothing to do with anyone else.


----------



## Goldenstar (24 September 2014)

cobgoblin said:



			I was talking about the horse in the article where NO owner was present. Who'd want to ask you?
		
Click to expand...

I assumed since you quoted my post about my stabbed pony above the comment you where referring to me .


----------



## Ladyinred (24 September 2014)

cobgoblin said:



			I was talking about the horse in the article where NO owner was present. Who'd want to ask you?
		
Click to expand...

By the same token.. who'd want to answer you. That was a very rude reply and uncalled for especially as Goldenstar has really said nothing objectionable to you.


----------



## cobgoblin (24 September 2014)

Inthemud said:



			Maybe it was PTS just to wind you up OP, or to discover your so well thought out opinions....

Get a grip.
		
Click to expand...

I don't think the OP has posted since starting the thread.


----------



## Sebastian (24 September 2014)

cobgoblin said:



			The question was 'why was this horse put down?' The article says it was to prevent further suffering, which is the universal answer and tells you nothing.Had I been there,then yes, I would have demanded to know how and why they came to that conclusion.
		
Click to expand...

Perhaps you should start a facebook petition?


----------



## Evie91 (24 September 2014)

Why was the horse put to sleep?
My answers as follows; 
A) it was tired
B) vet doesn't like cobs
C) vet was late for his/her tea.

Am I right? Is there a prize if I have guessed correctly?


----------



## DJ (24 September 2014)

cobgoblin said:



			I don't think the OP has posted since starting the thread.
		
Click to expand...

Funnily enough I was just thinking the same thing ....


----------



## Moomin1 (24 September 2014)

Sebastian said:



			Perhaps you should start a facebook petition?
		
Click to expand...

Quite!! Perhaps it should be a petition against 'articles which don't give the desired amount of detail about decisions made by vets with regard pts'.  Or maybe 'hasty welfare organisations and vets who pts to prevent further suffering..'


----------



## Sebastian (24 September 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			Quite!! Perhaps it should be a petition against 'articles which don't give the desired amount of detail about decisions made by vets with regard pts'.  Or maybe 'hasty welfare organisations and vets who pts to prevent further suffering..'
		
Click to expand...

We are on the same page.


----------



## ChesnutsRoasting (24 September 2014)

OWLIE185 said:



			Why was this horse put down?
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news...9-2014&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter

Click to expand...

Stab wounds, generally, go deeper than their width. There could have been massive internal haemorrhage, even if the external wound appears innocuous. Poor horse. Utter, utter scum - deserve a knife in their privates.


----------



## pinkypug1 (24 September 2014)

There r hundreds if not thousands of horses standing on all 4 legs at present that for their own good should be put down & not passed from pillar to post being neglected!!  Putting an animal to sleep is not cruel if it's for the good of the animal and the population of the horse in general. I feel it's time to  weed out the c**p rather than filling rescue centre a to bursting point !


----------



## Lammy (24 September 2014)

cobgoblin said:



			I think it's very interesting how threads on this forum turn into a form of Chinese whispers, with posters being ascribed sentiments and reasoning that they have never expressed.
I have never said that the horse should not have been PTS.
The article merely states that the horse was PTS to prevent further suffering. This could be interpreted as a myriad of things:
It could be that the horse had sustained a mortal injury.
It could be that the horse sustained a treatable injury but had other problems and was PTS.-
It could be that the horse was treatable but the rspca decided that it did not want to pay for treatment because it might be left with the bill (in which case why not be honest about it?).
It could be that the animal was PTS because the owner could not be found to make a decision.

I'm sure there are probably many other alternatives, but in answer to the question 'why was this horse put to sleep' - no one knows because they weren't there!
		
Click to expand...

"It could be that the horse had sustained a mortal injury"

It was stabbed five times. Good enough reason to PTS a stray horse IMO.


----------



## MissTyc (24 September 2014)

As above, externally horses can frequently look "ok" ... a bit of blood, a "small" wound ... and inside they are dying already. Even if no major organs ruptured, thugs rarely sterilise their knives before stabbing and the infection risk for deep wounds is enormous. Many horses, with the best vet care, don't survive puncture wounds. I have to believe that the decision was made because in the moment, with a distressed young, injured cob, it was the kindest thing to do. Could he have been saved? We'll never know, but "can it be saved" should never be the reason to avoid euthanasia, esp when the pony doesn't have a future to return to.


----------



## Queenbee (24 September 2014)

RunToEarth said:



			Almost as barbaric as the racehorse that was shot after it's injuries. Who in the right mind would think to PTS horses who are suffering immense pain when they could try to nurture them back to health for their own gratification at great suffering to the horse?
		
Click to expand...

Very well said


----------



## conniegirl (24 September 2014)

I've had a quick look at the photos again, there is also a stab wound at the front of the horse between its ribs, that is most likely a punctured and collapsed lung and alone would be a reason to PTS. 
Its hard enough to repair and reinflate a human lung, very very painful and terrifying even when you can understand what is going on!


----------



## SusieT (24 September 2014)

looks to me like chest and abdominal wounds in there- neither of which are saveable really


----------



## Penny Less (24 September 2014)

OP was asking a question wasn't saying it was wrong. Not surprised she hasn't reposted given some of the replies


----------



## Enfys (24 September 2014)

Oh how I wish HHO had a like button.


----------



## el_Snowflakes (24 September 2014)

poor horse. The vet obviously acted in the best interest of the animal.........surely the real question here is why on earth would a human being stab an innocent animal?


----------



## MagicMelon (25 September 2014)

el_Snowflakes said:



			poor horse. The vet obviously acted in the best interest of the animal.........surely the real question here is why on earth would a human being stab an innocent animal?
		
Click to expand...

Because sadly there are some very very nasty individuals in the world   I hope they have the same done to them.


----------



## char3479 (25 September 2014)

There's that theory about people who start on animals and progress to humans...


----------



## blitznbobs (25 September 2014)

char3479 said:



			There's that theory about people who start on animals and progress to humans...
		
Click to expand...

thats not a theory... it's part of the psychopathic triad (the other 2 parts are fire starting and bed wetting...)


----------



## Tnavas (25 September 2014)

Deseado said:



			It was put down because the vet in attendance recommended it based on his/her professional assessment of the injuries. As was the horse shot after shattering a fore cannon (a non-survivable injury). Not everything can be fixed; not everything should be fixed. Sometimes it is more humane to euthanise.
		
Click to expand...


This! ^^^^^

The stab wound in the flank may have been deep, penetrating internal organs which would lead to peritonitis.


----------



## charlie_george (25 September 2014)

I can't believe how rude people on here are, I too thought the same when I first saw this article, I was expecting to see more blood everywhere, but then I'm no vet and of course everything else is considered too. I'm not against the horse being PTS, animals are slaughtered all day everyday for food. 
I'm just surprised that this forum keeps going, I'm always to scared to ask a question for the fear of being shot down in flames! This forum could be such a great place, its a real shame that people feel they have to jump down others throats!


----------



## Grumpy Herbert (25 September 2014)

If we had a properly regulated and monitored licensing type system for all horse owners/breeders, then maybe there would be fewer ill-bred and neglected ponies left tethered at the side of the road for brainless morons to stab.

Personally, I would rather animals like this were humanely destroyed than left to suffer - even without having been stabbed, what sort of life did this poor animal have?  Not one full of loving care, I bet.  But even better, I would rather they had never been bred in the first place.


----------



## Merrymoles (25 September 2014)

I posted a link to the BBC article on this when it first appeared.

As someone fairly local to the area, I can tell you that there have been endless problems caused by loose horses wandering on to main roads and fly grazing within a couple of miles of this location. The MP for the area has been working on the fly-grazing Bill because of it. Here is another link which gives more information http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news...ng-battle-to-beat-horse-fly-grazing-1-6801509.

In it, there is comment about the difficulty in tracing owners of the horses and, although I obviously don't know if this is the case, I strongly suspect that it was a factor in this particular incident. Yes, the RSPCA could have (and may have) been willing to take on the pony but that would be only the beginning of safeguarding its future.

I also believe, given the number of experienced equine vets in the area, that the decision to PTS was made by someone very qualified to do so. There are many ways of reading stories and pictures but when I look at the last picture in the original link, I see a horse which looks as though it has given up.


----------



## Fides (25 September 2014)

E



Grumpy Herbert said:



			Personally, I would rather animals like this were humanely destroyed than left to suffer - even without having been stabbed, what sort of life did this poor animal have?  Not one full of loving care, I bet.  But even better, I would rather they had never been bred in the first place.
		
Click to expand...

As long as a horse has food, water, somewhere to shelter and equine company it doesn't care if it is 'loved' or has a stable. This does not mean they are neglected. My horses rarely see the inside of a stable - it certainly doesn't mean they are neglected


----------



## touchstone (25 September 2014)

Fides said:



			E

As long as a horse has food, water, somewhere to shelter and equine company it doesn't care if it is 'loved' or has a stable. This does not mean they are neglected. My horses rarely see the inside of a stable - it certainly doesn't mean they are neglected
		
Click to expand...

I agree with Grumpy Herbert totally, there was no mention of stabling, so not sure why you've mentioned that?   This horse was straying, and tethering at the side of the road is a far from ideal way of caring for a horse on a permanent basis.


----------



## Spring Feather (25 September 2014)

charlie_george said:



			I can't believe how rude people on here are, I too thought the same when I first saw this article, I was expecting to see more blood everywhere, but then I'm no vet and of course everything else is considered too. I'm not against the horse being PTS, animals are slaughtered all day everyday for food. 
I'm just surprised that this forum keeps going, I'm always to scared to ask a question for the fear of being shot down in flames! This forum could be such a great place, its a real shame that people feel they have to jump down others throats!
		
Click to expand...

I have to say I was also surprised at how quickly the OP was jumped on.  I looked at the link and I don't think it's unreasonable to ask, specifically, why the horse was PTS, as it's certainly not apparent based on just the photos.

As to your other point, it's only cyber flames so don't feel nervous of posting


----------



## Dave's Mam (25 September 2014)

I feel necessary to fling my 50p worth in.  No, there was not a lot of blood, but the wounds my have stopped bleeding.  The article did not mention other factors which the vet would have taken into consideration.  The animals temperature, heart rate, fluid levels etc.  The pony looks tired & broken, it may have been in a lot of pain for quite some time.  Why make the poor little sod suffer more, just to make us humans feel better by "saving" him.  Do you not think he had been through quite enough?
RIP, you poor little sausage.


----------



## ChesnutsRoasting (25 September 2014)

moleskinsmum said:



			I posted a link to the BBC article on this when it first appeared.

As someone fairly local to the area, I can tell you that there have been endless problems caused by loose horses wandering on to main roads and fly grazing within a couple of miles of this location. The MP for the area has been working on the fly-grazing Bill because of it. Here is another link which gives more information http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news...ng-battle-to-beat-horse-fly-grazing-1-6801509.

In it, there is comment about the difficulty in tracing owners of the horses and, although I obviously don't know if this is the case, I strongly suspect that it was a factor in this particular incident. Yes, the RSPCA could have (and may have) been willing to take on the pony but that would be only the beginning of safeguarding its future.

I also believe, given the number of experienced equine vets in the area, that the decision to PTS was made by someone very qualified to do so. There are many ways of reading stories and pictures but when I look at the last picture in the original link, I see a horse which looks as though it has given up.
		
Click to expand...

Are they owned by those who can't be named?


----------



## Fides (25 September 2014)

touchstone said:



			I agree with Grumpy Herbert totally, there was no mention of stabling, so not sure why you've mentioned that?   This horse was straying, and tethering at the side of the road is a far from ideal way of caring for a horse on a permanent basis.
		
Click to expand...

I read stabbed as stabled - that'll teach me


----------



## Dave's Mam (25 September 2014)

Hahahaha!


----------



## Echo Bravo (25 September 2014)

Both horses are dead and no longer in pain, one not looked after very well and no doubt was a revenge attack and the other doing a job he was bred for and did it well and well looked after, Why Cobgoblin would want to be there and demand an explanation why PTS beggars believe. This is what gets my goat, one had nasty stab wounds and the other shattered a leg and people are saying why PTS. Cloud Cuckoo Land not everything can be fixed.


----------



## char3479 (25 September 2014)

Nothing like a good discussion of welfare issues though - it would be a shame if no-one cared enough to question things, would it not?


----------



## Echo Bravo (25 September 2014)

So if Wigham Hall had been saved but left permanently lame and in pain would have to be on painkillers for the rest of his maybe long life would that have been kind to the horse. Look at poor Nicholas Abbey what they put him through and still had to PTS after several weeks.


----------



## touchstone (25 September 2014)

Fides said:



			I read stabbed as stabled - that'll teach me 

Click to expand...

Lol, that explains it then, I thought it was an odd reply from you


----------



## FionaM12 (25 September 2014)

Fides said:



			I read stabbed as stabled - that'll teach me 

Click to expand...


----------



## PolarSkye (25 September 2014)

blazingsaddles said:



			Are they owned by those who can't be named?
		
Click to expand...

If you mean travellers and gypsies then quite possibly . . . however, I keep my lovely horse on a private yard owned by travellers and can absolutely attest that their horses are beautifully cared for and want for nothing.  Let's not jump to conclusions and tar all people by one brush, eh?  

P


----------



## FionaM12 (25 September 2014)

I think the reason the OP's question is getting a rough ride is that it's obvious no-one here can answer it so it doesn't look like a genuine question. 

The only people who know on exactly what grounds the decision was made are bound by professional confidentiality so they're hardly going to come here to explain, nor should they.


----------



## ChesnutsRoasting (25 September 2014)

PolarSkye said:



			If you mean travellers and gypsies then quite possibly . . . however, I keep my lovely horse on a private yard owned by travellers and can absolutely attest that their horses are beautifully cared for and want for nothing.  Let's not jump to conclusions and tar all people by one brush, eh?  

P
		
Click to expand...

Not jumping & certainly not tarring but suspecting - wrongly or rightly.


----------



## Uname (25 September 2014)

Lammy said:



			I think the authorities should have spent thousands of pounds to perform surgery on this unfortunate gypsy pony which probably has other veterinary needs such as lice, worms etc and then when it's fixed (if it did survive the surgery that is) it can go and take up room looking for a new home which could possibly take years. (sarcasm).

I don't see the problem. A vet made a professional decision on a horse whose owners would probably be untraceable who had 5 serious injuries. Was this thread made just to wind people up?
		
Click to expand...

No, of course you (and many other shallow, caustic half-wits on this forum) wouldn't see the problem.


----------



## cobgoblin (25 September 2014)

Echo Bravo said:



			Both horses are dead and no longer in pain, one not looked after very well and no doubt was a revenge attack and the other doing a job he was bred for and did it well and well looked after, Why Cobgoblin would want to be there and demand an explanation why PTS beggars believe. This is what gets my goat, one had nasty stab wounds and the other shattered a leg and people are saying why PTS. Cloud Cuckoo Land not everything can be fixed.
		
Click to expand...

  I didn't say I wanted to be there at all. It's just amazing how everything gets twisted on here!
  If you think about it, if I had been there then I would probably have been involved in the finding of the horse, In which case I don't think it's unreasonable that I would have found out the severity of his wounds and why the decision to PTS was made.
   Just for clarity, as apparently everything has to be spelled out on here, I am not referring to the racehorse.


----------



## MotherOfChickens (25 September 2014)

Uname said:



			No, of course you (and many other shallow, caustic half-wits on this forum) wouldn't see the problem.
		
Click to expand...

welcome to the forum


----------



## PolarSkye (25 September 2014)

Uname said:



			No, of course you (and many other shallow, caustic half-wits on this forum) wouldn't see the problem.
		
Click to expand...

Blimey - quite an entrance!

P


----------



## Uname (25 September 2014)

OWLIE185 said:



			Why was this horse put down?
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news...9-2014&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter

Click to expand...

I believe it should not have been put down if the injuries were not life threatening and could have been treated. I also believe that a better use of PR for the story would have been to generate awareness for the need to re-home the pony, should it have been required. 

It appears the 'vet' made a financially motivated decision which had nothing to do with the value of the pony's life. Horses and indeed all animals should be treated with the same care and respect as humans, hence the pony should not have been put down unless there was no chance of recovery.


----------



## Goldenstar (25 September 2014)

Uname said:



			I believe it should not have been put down if the injuries were not life threatening and could have been treated. I also believe that a better use of PR for the story would have been to generate awareness for the need to re-home the pony, should it have been required. 

It appears the 'vet' made a financially motivated decision which had nothing to do with the value of the pony's life. Horses and indeed all animals should be treated with the same care and respect as humans - there is no difference in value, hence the pony should not have been put down unless there was no chance of recovery.
		
Click to expand...

There is no evidence that what you say is the case .


----------



## hairycob (25 September 2014)

Surely there would have been far more to be earned by the vet in trying to save the pony than in pts.


----------



## Uname (25 September 2014)

MotherOfChickens said:



			welcome to the forum 

Click to expand...

Thanks


----------



## Uname (25 September 2014)

hairycob said:



			Surely there would have been far more to be earned by the vet in trying to save the pony than in pts.
		
Click to expand...

I think because it would also involve a lot of time and perhaps 'bother', if they didn't really care for the animal as an owner would.


----------



## Uname (25 September 2014)

Uname said:



			as an owner would.
		
Click to expand...

*A good owner, that is.


----------



## PolarSkye (25 September 2014)

Uname said:



			I believe it should not have been put down if the injuries were not life threatening and could have been treated. I also believe that a better use of PR for the story would have been to generate awareness for the need to re-home the pony, should it have been required. 

It appears the 'vet' made a financially motivated decision which had nothing to do with the value of the pony's life. Horses and indeed all animals should be treated with the same care and respect as humans, hence the pony should not have been put down unless there was no chance of recovery.
		
Click to expand...

And how do you know that the "vet" didn't make a determination that the injuries WERE life threatening?

P


----------



## Uname (25 September 2014)

Goldenstar said:



			There is no evidence that what you say is the case .
		
Click to expand...

No there isn't, which is why I say it hypothetically. But as others have mentioned, horses are put down for far less which is why I think it more plausible the decision was financially motivated. Plus the time and effort to rehome if required and the provision of long-term care.


----------



## Dave's Mam (25 September 2014)

I give up.  If any of you are vets who saw the animal at first hand, knew its vital signs & its injuries in full, feel free to let me know.


----------



## Uname (25 September 2014)

PolarSkye said:



			And how do you know that the "vet" didn't make a determination that the injuries WERE life threatening?

P
		
Click to expand...

True, but I'd have thought it difficult to ascertain by the roadside. It wasn't given a chance.


----------



## Princess Rosie (25 September 2014)

The OP has asked a question which is fair, in a perfect world every horse would be looked after and no horse would have to suffer injuries caused by a human being, however, we most certainly don't live in anything close to a perfect world and these dreadful things happen and we can't speculate as to why and the reasons that the vet decided to euthanise, in the current market horses are passing from hand to hand for pennies and there are a large amount of unwanted horses and I'm afraid to say a hell of a lot of horses from gypsy stock (I have a gypsy rescue myself). It is very sad and from a non clinical view of the pictures that were released it is easy to wonder why the wounds themselves justify euthanasia, perhaps we have not seen the full extent of the injuries clearly, perhaps the decision to euthanise was made for the cost of the treatment and the unlikely possibility of finding the owner in the gypsy community as obviously someone has to answer for the injuries. 

RIP little man, if I had driven past (as I am local) I would have offered you a home if you could have been saved. x


----------



## Lammy (25 September 2014)

Uname said:



			I believe it should not have been put down if the injuries were not life threatening and could have been treated. I also believe that a better use of PR for the story would have been to generate awareness for the need to re-home the pony, should it have been required. 

It appears the 'vet' made a financially motivated decision which had nothing to do with the value of the pony's life. Horses and indeed all animals should be treated with the same care and respect as humans, hence the pony should not have been put down unless there was no chance of recovery.
		
Click to expand...

Sorry but I don't see you in any of the pictures with your boat load of money offering the poor thing a home for life with you.
And throwing insults around never helps your argument seem mature, grow up.
Your problem shouldn't be with the vet and ending the suffering of the unfortunate pony, it should be with the thug who did the stabbing in the first place. Think you're fighting the wrong battle.


----------



## PolarSkye (25 September 2014)

Camilla's Aunty Em said:



			I give up.  If any of you are vets who saw the animal at first hand, knew its vital signs & its injuries in full, feel free to let me know.
		
Click to expand...

Precisely.

RIP poor pony, but who are any of us to question the attending vets?

P


----------



## PolarSkye (25 September 2014)

Uname said:



			True, but I'd have thought it difficult to ascertain by the roadside. It wasn't given a chance.
		
Click to expand...

How do you know this?  That's like saying that vets who attend race meetings aren't qualified to make decisions about horses injured on the track.  And FWIW, vets take multiple factors into consideration when assessing a horse's outcome after injury . . . it's ultimately about quality of life/prognosis for recovery.

As far as I know you are not a vet and you weren't there.  So I'm not sure how constructive you can really be in this instance.

P


----------



## blitznbobs (25 September 2014)

for those of you that think those wounds look tiny I'm going to tell you a story...

I am a human doctor who often  works in A and E . About 4 years ago we had a young lad (about 18 ) walked in to the department with a tiny (about 4 mm across) wound on his abdomen. 

12 hours later he was still alive (just) having had his chest cracked open, his heart and stomach sewn up and his spleen removed...

As the old medical saying goes... the way to a mans heart is thru his stomach - Straight up....

never judge an injury by what you can see on the surface


----------



## Dave's Mam (25 September 2014)

blitznbobs said:



			for those of you that think those wounds look tiny I'm going to tell you a story...

I am a human doctor who often  works in A and E . About 4 years ago we had a young lad (about 18 ) walked in to the department with a tiny (about 4 mm across) wound on his abdomen. 

12 hours later he was still alive (just) having had his chest cracked open, his heart and stomach sewn up and his spleen removed...

As the old medical saying goes... the way to a mans heart is thru his stomach - Straight up....

never judge an injury by what you can see on the surface
		
Click to expand...

This.


----------



## Spring Feather (25 September 2014)

I think most people on this forum with even a modicum of injury experience know that looks can be deceiving.  The OP asked why the horse was PTS.  So the answer is, we don't know why specifically.  I would certainly have found it interesting if the link had specified.


----------



## Uname (25 September 2014)

Lammy said:



			Sorry but I don't see you in any of the pictures with your boat load of money offering the poor thing a home for life with you.
And throwing insults around never helps your argument seem mature, grow up.
Your problem shouldn't be with the vet and ending the suffering of the unfortunate pony, it should be with the thug who did the stabbing in the first place. Think you're fighting the wrong battle.
		
Click to expand...

There's plenty of charities that would have offered a temporary or indefinite home I'm sure, especially if PR was used to generate awareness.

I wasn't throwing insults; I was merely making an observation after reading some extremely rude comments.

My point is that it's naive to assume the vet had the pony's best interests at heart. Experts aren't always 'experts' justifiably.


----------



## minesadouble (25 September 2014)

I don't have a problem at all with this horse being put down. Especially as it appears it had been abandoned, as I agree there are fates far worse than death when it comes to low value equines without a dedicated owner.
However I can see both points of view as I cannot help but feel that did the horse have serious internal damage then this fact would have been released to the media. ' to prevent further suffering' covers a very wide range of bases!


----------



## Uname (25 September 2014)

Either way, as none of us know, it's a tragic story and we can only hope whoever did it is found and punished.


----------



## Moomin1 (25 September 2014)

Uname said:



			There's plenty of charities that would have offered a temporary or indefinite home I'm sure, especially if PR was used to generate awareness.

I wasn't throwing insults; I was merely making an observation after reading some extremely rude comments.

My point is that it's naive to assume the vet had the pony's best interests at heart. Experts aren't always 'experts' justifiably.
		
Click to expand...

Have you any idea of the sheer scale of the problem rescue centres face to try and house, treat and rehome all of these horses?  You clearly don't, because you appear to think that they should take on every single horse into their care, spend time and money on attempting to bring it back to some form of health, when it may be literally at death's door and suffering (as the vet in this case decided it was).  Where do you think all this space and money comes from?  There is an equine crisis in this country, and to take in every single horse they come across, be it healthy or with a 1% chance of survival, is not possible.


----------



## Dave's Mam (25 September 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			Have you any idea of the sheer scale of the problem rescue centres face to try and house, treat and rehome all of these horses?  You clearly don't, because you appear to think that they should take on every single horse into their care, spend time and money on attempting to bring it back to some form of health, when it may be literally at death's door and suffering (as the vet in this case decided it was).  Where do you think all this space and money comes from?  There is an equine crisis in this country, and to take in every single horse they come across, be it healthy or with a 1% chance of survival, is not possible.
		
Click to expand...


Could not agree more.


----------



## YorksG (25 September 2014)

At the other end of the scale, I know of a yearling who was subjected to colic surgery, when the attending vet gave it a 1% chance of survival, because the insurance company would not pay out if the proceedure was not carried out. I would much rather that we pts animals with painful and serious injuries and illness, than make them endure further suffering for our benefit. With regard to the general public knowing why, in this or any other case, it is none of our business.


----------



## Apercrumbie (25 September 2014)

I have a decent knowledge of anatomy, both human and equine and I would be amazed if those stab wounds hadn't punctured at least one organ.  Many stab wounds don't bleed that much as most of the damage is internal.  I would have been far more critical of the vet if they had chosen to keep the poor horse alive tbh.  

Anyway OP - news articles don't tend to give detailed vet's reports, as we well know from the Wigmore Hall case.  I think five stab wounds that were probably not superficial is a good enough reason to put a horse down.  

Uname - suggesting that a vet is lazy and can't be bothered to save a horse's life is just insulting.  I'm just gobsmacked that people are really questioning putting a horse with five stab wounds to sleep.  This is all pure speculation.


----------



## Moomin1 (25 September 2014)

To be honest, if the horse had a mere flesh wound, and was pts, then it's still nobody else's business.


----------



## Ellen Durow (25 September 2014)

Uname said:



			There's plenty of charities that would have offered a temporary or indefinite home I'm sure, especially if PR was used to generate awareness.

I wasn't throwing insults; I was merely making an observation after reading some extremely rude comments.

My point is that it's naive to assume the vet had the pony's best interests at heart. Experts aren't always 'experts' justifiably.
		
Click to expand...

If you are talking about naïve you should be looking at yourself. The Equine charities are already stretched to the limit with welfare cases. You can't glibly say that they would take in this case along with the possibility that it would need very extensive and expensive vet care with no guarantee that the horse can be saved. Grow up, girly.

And if you can't trust a vet to have an animals best interests at heart who can you trust?


----------



## Dave's Mam (25 September 2014)

Ok, I risk repeating myself here, but non veterinary skilled people are saying this pony "COULD HAVE BEEN.............

****** it.


----------



## cobgoblin (25 September 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			To be honest, if the horse had a mere flesh wound, and was pts, then it's still nobody else's business.
		
Click to expand...

Moomin I think you have totally misunderstood the entire point of the original question - why was this horse put down?
  The question did not ask whether anyone felt it was morally or legally right or wrong.
   The article was reported in print and by virtue of that did become everybody's business.
  I think the OP asked a genuinely interesting question which should have and partly did, lead to an interesting discussion on the treatment and fate of an injured horse in the absence of the owner and the interpretation of a very sketchy report.
  Sadly, this quickly degenerated into the usual bunch of accusations of being in the fluffy bunny camp or not, which always seems to happen on here.


----------



## conniegirl (25 September 2014)

to those who have never seen the sort of knife that "that sort" like to play with here is a picture:





do you realy think that something like that wont do damage to the internal organs of just about anything! They were originaly designed as hunting knives!


----------



## Spring Feather (25 September 2014)

conniegirl said:



			to those who have never seen the sort of knife that "that sort" like to play with here is a picture:





do you realy think that something like that wont do damage to the internal organs of just about anything! They were originaly designed as hunting knives!
		
Click to expand...

Oh I'm sorry but ^^^ you have absolutely NO knowledge that this was the type of knife used.  Total and utter speculation!  It could just as easily have been a penknife for goodness sake.


----------



## conniegirl (25 September 2014)

I dont KNOW but I can make an educated guess given the size of some of those entry wounds (perticularly the one in the rib area) and the type of person likely to have committed this attrocity.
My OH makes and sells knives, at events you get very good at watching certain types of people that are inclined to half inch certain types of knives if they have half a chance and believe me it isnt the pen knife sized ones they take.


----------



## FionaM12 (25 September 2014)

This really has become an unsavoury thread.


----------



## Tnavas (26 September 2014)

I remember many years ago my lovely mare broke her leg at a show. She was being a tart about going back on the float, she reared and sat down, nothing violent but I heard a small click, and she could not stand up again.

The vet was called, it was Sunday and a young vet arrived, from the equine practise, and diagnosed a broken Femur. I will admit I was horrible, she was not long qualified and I would not accept her decision, I demanded a second opinion. 

She was right though, the leg was broken and she was PTS. I was devastated, I'd also lost my cat that morning, I'd removed him from the road as I was leaving. 

I think for a newspaper report the information was sufficient. We don't need to know the gory details. No doubt if we were there we'd ask for a more indepth report.


----------



## maccachic (26 September 2014)

To me that last pic looks like if you gab the horse a push it would prob fall over.  Poor thing there are some really horrible people out that.


----------



## FionaM12 (26 September 2014)

Tnavas said:



			We don't need to know the gory details..
		
Click to expand...

It seems that's what some want though. 

I'm so sorry about your mare. I know it wss a long time ago but must be a painful memory.


----------



## Tnavas (26 September 2014)

FionaM12 said:



			It seems that's what some want though. 

I'm so sorry about your mare. I know it wss a long time ago but must be a painful memory. 

Click to expand...

Thanks FionaM12, it's 20 or more years since and I still think of her and my beautiful Jasper cat. It was a bad day.


----------



## touchstone (26 September 2014)

I think it's all very well to say that the charities should 'rescue' an individual horse in order to highlight its plight and raise awareness.  In the part of the country where I live the awareness is already pretty high, there are estates in nearby towns that are overrun with tethered and fly grazed ponies, they are a common sight, so I'm not sure how taking one in will change the view of anyone.

I donate to equine charities and personally prefer to see them working hard to improve conditions for ponies by tackling the larger issues of fly grazing, indiscriminate breeding etc.   Spending vast amounts on a pony that will sadly probably never amount to much, even if it could have been saved is a false economy. 

 I'd also suggest that anyone who thinks a charity can take on a horse, even temporarily, just tries ringing round them all and see how successful they are.  It is by hanging on to horses that we can't afford to keep that has created many of the issues we are now seeing.   Unless you as an individual can pay and care for the horse, then it is unfair to expect anyone else to when they are full to bursting.

It is incredibly sad for the individual ponies, but until we reach a point where horses aren't ten a penny and owners are required to be responsible for them then we need to reduce numbers drastically.  They can't all be saved, it just isn't physically possible.


----------



## suestowford (26 September 2014)

Uname said:



			No, of course you (and many other shallow, caustic half-wits on this forum) wouldn't see the problem.
		
Click to expand...




Uname said:



			I wasn't throwing insults;
		
Click to expand...

I think calling people on this forum 'shallow caustic half wits' is quite insulting tbh.


----------



## competitiondiva (26 September 2014)

OWLIE185 said:



			Why was this horse put down?
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news...9-2014&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter

Click to expand...

Ok I've not read all your replies but having seen recently that the rspca alone rescued around 800 horses I think in 2013 with that figure set to be even more this year they cannot simply keep paying out for all these horses. So as most charities are full if say the rspca were too, which considering they only have spaces for 125 I think that's a fair bet!  Aside from the injuries where should this horses go.  Then ontop of that you have the injuries which a vet assessed and a vet made the choice...


----------



## FionaM12 (26 September 2014)

suestowford said:



			I think calling people on this forum 'shallow caustic half wits' is quite insulting tbh.
		
Click to expand...


----------



## PolarSkye (26 September 2014)

touchstone said:



			I'd also suggest that anyone who thinks a charity can take on a horse, even temporarily, just tries ringing round them all and see how successful they are.  It is by hanging on to horses that we can't afford to keep that has created many of the issues we are now seeing.   Unless you as an individual can pay and care for the horse, then it is unfair to expect anyone else to when they are full to bursting.
		
Click to expand...

I completely agree with every word of this . . . and, as others have said, there are far worse fates than being humanely euthanised . . . 

P


----------



## Ibblebibble (26 September 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			To be honest, if the horse had a mere flesh wound, and was pts, then it's still nobody else's business.
		
Click to expand...

a mere flesh wound a la Monty python??


----------



## Moomin1 (26 September 2014)

Ibblebibble said:



			a mere flesh wound a la Monty python??
		
Click to expand...

Yes, t'is just a mere flesh wound... ;-)


----------



## Equi (26 September 2014)

This qu is ridiculous.


----------



## Grumpy Herbert (26 September 2014)

Fides said:



			I read stabbed as stabled - that'll teach me 

Click to expand...

Lol - I was well confused by your response til I read on!


----------



## JFTDWS (26 September 2014)

Uname said:



			Horses and indeed all animals should be treated with the same care and respect as humans...
		
Click to expand...

I want to live in a world where humans have the same right to a good death as animals.  I should hate to live in a world where animals are treated the way we treat humans - with no regard for welfare, but only a blind obligation to maintain "life" in the vaguest sense of the word at all costs.

It's nobody's business but the vet and the owner / welfare organisation who would have had to take it on.


----------



## Meowy Catkin (26 September 2014)

JFTD said:



			I want to live in a world where humans have the same right to a good death as animals.  I should hate to live in a world where animals are treated the way we treat humans - with no regard for welfare, but only a blind obligation to maintain "life" in the vaguest sense of the word at all costs.

It's nobody's business but the vet and the owner / welfare organisation who would have had to take it on.
		
Click to expand...

This. I agree completely.


----------



## windand rain (26 September 2014)

What I find a little curious is why this question was asked it is clear that for what ever reason the pony was not in a position to be saved whether that was a medical or financial reason it is irrelevant What is far more important is that people in that area were made aware of a  possible risk to their horses, and that if anyone could throw a light on who was guilty of this horrendous crime, they may be made to come forward with the information and see the low life/ves caught and punished although that is probably a vain hope. My question wouldn't have been why was it put to sleep but what is being done to catch the perpetrator and how to prevent a repeat performance. With too many horses and too few good owners PTS is always going to be the best option for many or these animals injured or not
Having spent some time with the sick and elderly who suffer greatly I am with those who would like the same access to euthanasia for humans as I personally would far prefer a dignified death than to suffer pain and ignominy at the hands of those that wish to preserve life at all costs


----------



## blitznbobs (26 September 2014)

JFTD said:



			I want to live in a world where humans have the same right to a good death as animals.  I should hate to live in a world where animals are treated the way we treat humans - with no regard for welfare, but only a blind obligation to maintain "life" in the vaguest sense of the word at all costs.

It's nobody's business but the vet and the owner / welfare organisation who would have had to take it on.
		
Click to expand...

This ... We treat humans appallingly


----------



## fburton (27 September 2014)

JFTD said:



			I want to live in a world where humans have the same right to a good death as animals.  I should hate to live in a world where animals are treated the way we treat humans - with no regard for welfare, but only a blind obligation to maintain "life" in the vaguest sense of the word at all costs.

It's nobody's business but the vet and the owner / welfare organisation who would have had to take it on.
		
Click to expand...

I'm pushing the Like button as hard as I can, but nothing seems to be happening.


----------



## Goldenstar (27 September 2014)

blitznbobs said:



			This ... We treat humans appallingly
		
Click to expand...

I agree I would like the end my old dog had in my arms in front of the Aga what happens to people is terrible unless you're lucky .


----------



## Grumpy Herbert (28 September 2014)

JFTD said:



			I want to live in a world where humans have the same right to a good death as animals.  I should hate to live in a world where animals are treated the way we treat humans - with no regard for welfare, but only a blind obligation to maintain "life" in the vaguest sense of the word at all costs.
		
Click to expand...

I couldn't agree more.  I lost my dear old mum last year.  She had a long and happy life, but was very ill towards the end.  She told me and the rest of the family that she just wanted to die - if she could have afforded the "Swiss clinic" she probably would have gone there.  She died in hospital having suffered much indignity for the previous month - all she wanted was a peaceful end in her own home.  We provide that for our animals, it's inhumane that we make humans suffer right til the bitter end.


----------



## Wagtail (28 September 2014)

I agree. I cannot believe we don't allow humans to be PTS. It is just awful what some have to endure. I find it hard to believe that nothing is being done about it even though it seems there would likely be a majority in favour of elective euthanasia.


----------



## teabiscuit (28 September 2014)

We need to have a frank and open discussion regarding human euthanasia. 
Anyone heard of the Liverpool care pathway?


----------



## Goldenstar (28 September 2014)

teabiscuit said:



			We need to have a frank and open discussion regarding human euthanasia. 
Anyone heard of the Liverpool care pathway?
		
Click to expand...

Yes a now discredited way of managing this issue .


----------



## View (28 September 2014)

JFTD said:



			I want to live in a world where humans have the same right to a good death as animals.  I should hate to live in a world where animals are treated the way we treat humans - with no regard for welfare, but only a blind obligation to maintain "life" in the vaguest sense of the word at all costs.
		
Click to expand...

With my husband, we nursed his mother at home through a terminal illness.  The pain and indignity that she was subjected to when we were not present was appalling.  Her last lucid words were "how much longer do I have to endure this?".  Her words say more than I can.

At the same time, my Dad was being treated for AML.  I am relieved that when he relapsed and made the decision not to be treated that he was treated with care, dignity and humanity.  Ultimately we could not fulfil his wish for him to pass at home due to a femoral catheter, but the ward nursing staff were superb.



blitznbobs said:



			This ... We treat humans appallingly
		
Click to expand...

Too often this is correct.



teabiscuit said:



			We need to have a frank and open discussion regarding human euthanasia. 
Anyone heard of the Liverpool pathway?
		
Click to expand...

Yes, and I shudder.  There are better ways.


----------

