# Ok, DRESSAGE RIders/horses and Hacking???



## wednesdayadams (5 September 2011)

So all of these hacking threads are interesting, Eventers I understand hacking is in your work plans, however DRESSAGE riders how often do you hack??? Mine is hacked once a week at but this is an amble round the block (45mins or so country lanes) no gallops as it is all farmers land- he is jumped fortnightly or every 3 weeks, but weekly we have lessons once or twice, one lunge/longline I also try and school in our fields once per week too he is turned out all year round 8 hours per day (except in the snow) from some of the posts I've seen once a week-fortnightly hacks or hacks that do not involve gallops are not acceptable??? I believe variety within work and turnout are very important for horses, but I have also worked at a serious dressage yard where there horses were out only a few hours a day hacked once month (IF that) although its not something for me personally it didn't seem to be as detrimental to them as people are making out- dressage riders what do you do??


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## rowy (5 September 2011)

Mine get hacked twice a week for between 45mins and 1 hour 15mins ish. It has really helped get mine fit and we usually walk on the roads and then trot and canter on the bridle way. 
On top of this they get jumped, usually grid work, every other week and they get lunged every week ish.


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## Charlie007 (5 September 2011)

I suppose you could call my horse a dressage horse as this is what we compete at but not to any great level (nov/ele). I try to hack twice a week, especially in summer but due to work and dark nights etc, I only get to hack once a week in winter. He is out 24/7 most of the summer and out during the day in winter. I have weekly lessons, do pole work, and lunge every now and then. We also compete as much as possible. Can;t jump due to old injury. He seems very happy and settled.


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## ChloeC418 (5 September 2011)

Dela finds hacking very stressful, and jumping even more so. She only gets hacked in nice weather and on a day that my sister rides her pony, she hasn't been hacked in ages, possibly twice this year so far. There's no point me taking for a canter in a field because she really doesn't want to go fast in an open space, she's very well behaved though. We haven't done that in a while either because of the ground being too hard or hay being made from it. So Dela does dressage in an arena 5/6 days a week. She's not worked *really* hard but she usually needs hosing off afterwards. She's working a smidge below PSG. We were competing Medium before our lorry went off to be sold. She's turned out from 6.30am to 1.30pm or 11.30am if the weather's bad.


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## TheoryX1 (5 September 2011)

Sorry, no comprendez.  I do always fail to understand why 'Dressage Horses' are treated in any different way to any other horses because they are 'Dressage Horses'.  My daughter has an event and dressage horse. It goes out 24/7, it gets hacked out very regularily, um its a horse and is treated like a horse.  Its not wrapped in cotton wool, bandaged up to within an inch of its life (she doesnt even use boots unless she is jumping) and treated with kid gloves.

I also fail to see the distinction between eventers and dressage riders, although as an eventing mummy I am aware that a lot of fittening work is done out hacking, ie hill work, cantering, interval training etc.  However, as dressage horses need to be fit as well, why are they so different, and not hacked etc.  What I am trying to convey is why are people so bl**dy precious about 'Dressage Horses'.  We own one, and its treated as the horse that it actually is, and oh yes, its quite valuable before anyone shoots me down in flames.


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## Captain Bridget (5 September 2011)

I used to work for a dressage young rider and her horses were usually hacked once or twice a week depending on the weather etc. They only got an hour or two turnout a day though and an hour on the walker. And most of them didn't jump at all. But I think a lot of them needed more variety as I saw them go mental quite a few times!


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## caterpillar (5 September 2011)

TheoryX1 said:



			Sorry, no comprendez.  I do always fail to understand why 'Dressage Horses' are treated in any different way to any other horses because they are 'Dressage Horses'.
		
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I agree.


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## wednesdayadams (5 September 2011)

ChloeC4 Your routine sounds pretty much like the PSG, Inter horses that were at the yard I used to work at- does Dela go out etc??


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## ChloeC418 (5 September 2011)

wednesdayadams said:



			ChloeC4 Your routine sounds pretty much like the PSG, Inter horses that were at the yard I used to work at- does Dela go out etc??
		
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Yes, she goes out from 6.30am until 1.30pm every day. If the weather's bad then she'll come in early about 11.30am.


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## wednesdayadams (5 September 2011)

TheoryX1 nobody said dressage horses were any different to other horses- re read my post, I am a dressage rider (I like to think lol) so was interested in what other people do with their DRessage horses. If you read the replys so far you will see all the 'dressage' horses are hacked out, turned out and doing a nice large variety of work- um you are the on stereotyping...


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## wednesdayadams (5 September 2011)

One*


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## wednesdayadams (5 September 2011)

Thanks for all replys, I am very interested in dressage and have seen/heard everything from no turnout to turnout 24/7, never been hacked, never jumped, sometimes hacked sometimes jumped etc hence the reason for the post/interest/curiosity 

We know nothing is set in stone for a particular type of horse...


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## noodle_ (5 September 2011)

im mabey not qualified to comment but i want to do novice BD with mine in a few months.. she goes out 12 hours a day, worked 4/5 days a week - schooling/lunging/long reigning as she is borderline dangerous to hack.

Shes happy.  Even if she was just a "pet"... nothing would change.  Shes a horse.  they are designed to eat - and eat she does - winter and summer - 12 hours a day


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## wednesdayadams (5 September 2011)

Noodle thanks for the reply, good luck with your novice


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## Worried1 (5 September 2011)

As someone who is selling a 'dressage' horse we have been a bit frustrated by people wanting a horse that they can hack out on their own for hours at a time and be competitive at Advanced Medium! 

ALL (except Arthur but he is an exceptional case.) of ours hack including the stallion, it is good for them mentally and physically as it is good to condition their lower limbs and do some concussion work.

I have got a bit tired of explaining that yes the horse for sale does hack in company without any issues and yes he will hack on his own but it would not be pleasurable for either him or you as a rider!


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## rhino (5 September 2011)

It's not just dressage horses - when I was at Uni I kept my horse at a showjumping yard (rider competed internationally). Horses were only turned out for 3 - 4 hours maximum in solitary paddocks and were NEVER hacked (despite yard being immediately adjacent to miles and miles of forest tracks with no roads. I hacked out daily and didn't stay too long at the yard!


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## Pachamama (5 September 2011)

Worried1 said:



			As someone who is selling a 'dressage' horse we have been a bit frustrated by people wanting a horse that they can hack out on their own for hours at a time and be competitive at Advanced Medium! 

ALL (except Arthur but he is an exceptional case.) of ours hack including the stallion, it is good for them mentally and physically as it is good to condition their lower limbs and do some concussion work.

I have got a bit tired of explaining that yes the horse for sale does hack in company without any issues and yes he will hack on his own but it would not be pleasurable for either him or you as a rider!
		
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I'm confused... your comments seem to contradict themselves. They do or don't hack out? If it's beneficial, why is it not pleasurable?


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## trendybraincell (5 September 2011)

Well I don't really class mine as a dressage horse, although we only really compete at dressage. He's my first horse, a Welsh Cob...so not your typical dressage horse.

He hacks usually twice a week. Mostly road work at a brisk walk with some access to have a reasonable canter. Last week we went on our first fun ride where, despite never doing XC he popped all the fences.

My last yard was a competition yard (GP dressage rider & 4* eventer) all their horses where hacked and would be taken in the local NT park for a good blast. Yes they were precious competition horses, but they certainly weren't wrapped in cotton wool


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## noodle_ (5 September 2011)

wednesdayadams said:



			Noodle thanks for the reply, good luck with your novice 

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thanks  distant dream but we will get there - shes coming along nicely - just a shame shes an absolute idiot to take anywhere else except the school and the field (and even thats sometimes taking it a bit far depending on her mood lol!)


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## Prince33Sp4rkle (5 September 2011)

mine is 6yo, competing med/adv med and working PSG...........no longer hacks (hasnt hacked in nearly a year i think) as he finds it stressful, he gets incredibly wound up (white foam sweat passaging for miles wound up), and once he's been set off, he wont calm down. its not safe for me or him and wont do his legs any good, so we dont do it.

he is also not good with farm traffic so it always was a bit of a lottery as to whether we had to keep diving in to gateways etc to keep away from tractors/combines.

since not hacking he has been SO much more settled in the warm up at shows, and to me the proof is in that pudding.

TheoryX-i find some of what you say a bit holier than thou. im really glad your daughters horse is that well behaved and good in traffic/sensible etc. Mine isnt, its not at all safe to force him to go out on the public highway, its not being pretentious, its being a realist!


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## nikkimariet (5 September 2011)

I personally, don't enjoy hacking/gain anything from it so I don't out of choice partake very often. Usually I only hack the second day (after a day off) following a show. He is not too 'precious' to take for a pootle round the fields, although we don't do gallop hacks AT ALL due to a previous double front suspensory injury.

For some horses/riders....variety is the spice of life. For some horse/riders....variety is the key to quick and certain death.

Having previously had a DR pony that liked to bolt, nap and hedge dive (please take literally) whilst on the roads and fields, hacking for some people is not worth the potential price of horse/rider/road user life.


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## coreteam1 (5 September 2011)

We hack about twice a week, for about 40 min around the land belonging to the stable yard. Some trotting and a canter or two if the ground isn't like concreate which ours is at the moment.

I only go out in company as he is an assissin on his own with my name on his bullet 

I lunge once, maybe twice a week depending on my work load.  I have a lesson once a week and school him one or two times, again depending on my work load. My lessons are 45 min and I normally school him for 35/40 min.
I only lunge for approx 20 min at the most.

He goes out everyday and at the moment (from about April) has been out 24/7 apart from in for breakfast and tea or in if the weather has been hot.  It settles his mind if he's out but now it's starting to get cooler at nights he will probably be coming in during the next couple of weeks. 

I do jump occasionally but I'm less enthusiastic about it now that I use to be 

We also did the Eland Lodge pleasure ride a few weeks ago which boiled his brain for the first 20 min but we survived  
Some dressage horses just aren't at their best when going out to try different things for a more varied life style, some horses like to stick to routine which mine does.  
We only have to move fields after worming and he's the devil again


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## millimoo (6 September 2011)

I think when it comes to dressage horses, some need to remember that a good proportion of them come from producers in Europe.
They are not managed or ridden in the same way as UK sourced horses.
We have one purchased at 4yrs, who turns out all day and is regularly hacked out.
The other horse was imported rising 9yrs. He will not turn out for more than a couple of hours (trust me we've tried and it's just not worth it). And as for hacking, well OK'ish in company and a nappy sod if he's that way out in his own... This is because he is not used to it, and will never be brilliant at it.
Put it this way, we have an Eventer on the yard where the later Imported horse is kept. He is utterly fearless (& ridden for England), he has been offered tinkering the horse to hack out with his wife. He was going to, but they like to have a bit of a blast and he actually declined the offer as he said it would blow his head for days if not weeks.
So for me, yes I think imported horses are different, and the majority of these happen to be Dressage horses from Germany & Holland where they are usually produced and kept in a professional set up I.e big yard, zero to an hours turnout and worked for a set period everyday.
Just my opinion for those that scoff at the way these horses are sometimes kept.


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## millimoo (6 September 2011)

To add, warmoods are at times just plain stupid ... It's in the genes, and I truly believe Irish, TBs etc have a very different personality trait ... And on that basis its a combination of nature and nurture. Obviously there are exceptions to every rule


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## TheoryX1 (6 September 2011)

Prince33Sp4rkle said:



			TheoryX-i find some of what you say a bit holier than thou. im really glad your daughters horse is that well behaved and good in traffic/sensible etc. Mine isnt, its not at all safe to force him to go out on the public highway, its not being pretentious, its being a realist!
		
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OP - my apologies for what comes next.

PS - have you heard of the phrase 'The pot calling the kettle black'.  If not, I suggest you google its precise meaning.  By the way, this thread is not all about you (again).

Back to the subject, inteesting as we have a mix on our yard of eventers, dressage riders and happy hackers, plus fab hacking.  We all hack.  We all have different sorts of temperaments of horses from nutters to quiet laid back ones.  We have owned our mare since she was 5 and Mini TX was 13, and she hacked her out on her own quite confidently from pretty much day one.  We are fortunate to have her.  I am not referring to stereotypes as I do know some eventers who grit their teeth when they hack and will do it as little as possible.


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## Garfield1537 (6 September 2011)

Has a hack three times a week! I find out hacking I can still school and work on his medium trot and medium canter as well as lots of lateral exercises, he loves it!


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## PaddyMonty (6 September 2011)

OH's dressage horse (well pony really) hacks out as much if not more than she schools. Also pops round a small course of fences with my daughter.  Horse competes Adv Med (BD).


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## Prince33Sp4rkle (6 September 2011)

jesus wept! apologies for using personal experience as an example!

all im saying is-great that you can do it, but consider that there are very valid reasons other people cant, i cant be the only person in the world with a horse either not reliable in traffic, or lacking in common sense/ self preservation.

i dont think its confined only to dressage horses, i know plenty of SJ'ers that cant/wont/dont hack too....rarely is its about being to precious, usually its a safety issue.


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## Worried1 (6 September 2011)

Pachamama they do hack but not on their own.

They all hack except Arthur in the company of Finn an older steady Eddie type who will go past anything and gives them confidence. 

Their will always be exceptions to the rule but it is unusual to find a horse confident and happy to hack solo competing as a 'dressage' horse.


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## nikkimariet (6 September 2011)

Worried1 said:



			Their will always be exceptions to the rule but it is unusual to find a horse confident and happy to hack solo competing as a 'dressage' horse.
		
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Indeed.


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## Firewell (6 September 2011)

Wasn't it Murphy Himself that could not be hacked. They used to have to lead him off another horse to take him out and they had to box him to the gallops, they couldn't hack him there as he was such a nightmare.
He was an event horse so to me it depends on the horse. I know lots of dressage riders who hack their horses and one or two who don't.
I wouldn't risk my life if the horse was an absolute nutter to hack.
I don't really mind if people do or don't hack their horses. It's not as if these horses are being abused or anything. I think those awful pictures of the Egypt horses and are more worthy recipient of a rant.


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## ihatework (6 September 2011)

I think 'dressage horse & rider' to describe me might be pushing the boundaries  but my main discipline now is dressage and hopefully one day to a decent standard. I hack out, always have and always will. I wouldn't buy a horse that wouldn't hack reasonably sanely.
My 5yo is actually better hacking on his own and he goes out 2-3 times a week, he is very forwards out hacking and I take the oppertunity to move him around laterally a fair bit.

I've worked on a pro sj yard and 90% of the horses never hacked and the 10% that did only went out about once a month. They barely went in the field either. Personally I thought it was a horrid way to keep a horse but the horses were brainwashed/instituionalised(sp) and couldn't mentally cope with being taken out of the stable-school-stable routine. Very sad.


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## Baydale (6 September 2011)

Worried1 said:



			Their will always be exceptions to the rule but it is unusual to find a horse confident and happy to hack solo competing as a 'dressage' horse.
		
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And why is that, do you think?  I'm not being provocative here, just curious, particularly as I've got some work on at the moment hacking a dressage horse.


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## PaddyMonty (6 September 2011)

Baydale said:



			And why is that, do you think?  I'm not being provocative here, just curious, particularly as I've got some work on at the moment hacking a dressage horse. 

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I have a theory and it's that DR horses are not exposed to noise etc very much.  Yards always seem quiet and god forbid anyone should whisper more than 3 words during a test or dare move more than their little finger.  Compared that to the noise and generally chaos at SJ and BE comps and it starts to make sense.  Big wide world becomes a scary place when horse is normally wrapped in cotton wool and handled with kid gloves.


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## Booboos (6 September 2011)

Mine hack about twice a week each although they haven't hacked a lot in the last 6 months due to my pregnancy.

R I only hack in company, he will go out alone but he is too much for me and every so often scares the life out of me. He will happily canter in fields but for the last 4 years we have lived in places where there was only roadwork. He hates jumping so we don't do it.

F will hack alone and in company, he is equally nappy either way! He will happily canter in fields but as above. He gets jumped a couple of times a month just a few cross poles for fun, but it's usually my groom who does it as I don't like jumping.

As the years go by I am going more and more off hacking as I am forced to do it on the roads and have had a few too many close calls with insane car drivers. We have a little loop on our land which takes 15 minutes to do and more and more I find myself happy to stay on that.


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## dressagecrazy (6 September 2011)

Mine Hack & have to Hack alone i very rarely have company & tbh they are normally worse in company.
 My WB didnt hack when i bought him so it was a bit hairy for a while but i sat tight lol.
My PRE also hadnt hacked he was 3yo when i bought him he's now 4 & hacks alone.

I dont really like hacking but i do it 2x a week, i also use neighbours 100acres for a good blast round as well. I used to event ( many years ago now) so i cant quite get out of the habit not cantering at least around a field lol.
My lot go out on average for 9-10hrs a day & are T/O everyday even in the worst weather.


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## ThePony (6 September 2011)

We 'do' dressage, not to any world beating level mind!!

We only school in the school twice a week. Usually one lunge per week and the rest hacking. From stretchy 1hr hacks to 3 plus hrs fast hacks. Keeps her maj happy, forward thinking and fit. We school on hacks too, not in anything like a comp outline all the time, but def no giraffing or slopping along either. She will hack in company or alone, although alone the hacks are a little more sprightly! 

I think it is because she wasn't brought up as a comp/dressage horse and so has had a hacking/seeing the world education straight from the off. So even though we train in a particular disapline, she hasn't been cosetted and treated in a particular way because of this or in order to develop in this area.

I do wonder at the particular treatment some 'comp' horses recieve compared to normals!  There are quite a number on our yard who stable elsewhere for part of the year and totally expect that because they are on yards particularly sold as comp yards that they have v little turnout (if any), no adlib fibre and regular spins on the horsewalker in place of turnout. Hacking is v little if any and is only short in duration and expecting a school outline at all times. I find it rather an outdated view tbh. Whatever sport you follow, the needs of a horse are the same!  I just think that those brought up with serious sj/dressage in mind often get less of an all round education, and keeping a sane head while hacking is one of the things that suffers as a response to this. 

Like others have mentioned, I do think dressage horses can be rather wrapped up, and total silence and stillness can be expected when competing rather than developing the horse's brain to deal with slight interuptions as well as concentration on school work and building the muscles. 

Admit that is easy for me to say as my mare has a mindset that makes this easier to deal with - she can be an arse at spooks, but if she was always ready to bubble over I might well change my mind and just want everything to stay silent in order to achieve a nice test and horse/rider staying together for the duration!!


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## Winklepoker (6 September 2011)

I feel I should hack more, but then some days I just wonder why I am bothering  He gets upset on his own and I just cant be arsed with it! I want to enjoy my horse and I want him to enjoy our rides, why ruin it with anxious hacking  If I decide to take him XC next year we will hack more to build stamina but not until then will I bother too often


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## Worried1 (6 September 2011)

Baydale said:



			And why is that, do you think?  I'm not being provocative here, just curious, particularly as I've got some work on at the moment hacking a dressage horse. 

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I think it's because the trend now is to have horses much sharper and as a result are more reactive than they used to be.

A decade ago warmbloods were often poohpoohed for being a bit thick and lumbersome, you would never have evented one or seen one in the show ring  - how times have changed. We have bred more blood and fire and as a result we see horses much hotter.

I would agree that noise also in an influencing factor too. We try not to have a sterile environment and my dad certainly makes his presence felt with his various bits of equipment and machinery!

Having said all this I still believe that hacking in pairs is beneficial for the most. I would NOT in any cirmcumstances hack Arthur. But Baydale if wanna ...


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## Tempi (6 September 2011)

I think it totally depends on the horse, some horses just hate hacking and get more stressed out by it and at the end of the day its not worth risking injury to them or yourself.  My old horse was a nightmare to hack, even in company, he didnt mind traffic (was perfect with all traffic) but he just got so stressed out that it would blow his mind.  I persevered for ages with him, but neither I nor he really enjoyed it.  However if i could get him to the nearest stuble field (always a battle to get there) he did love a good gallop around it.  Equally once he had stopped stressing himself out and going backwards/sideways and on two legs around the gallops he was then quite nice to have a lovely canter on.  

My mare was competing at medium, won at the Winters and i used to hack her out once or twice a week, shes a saint to hack (apart from the odd buck/squeal).  My 3yr old im now breaking in also enjoys hacking and will hack around the gallops on the farm on his own and will go around the lanes with someone else on another horse quite happily and is perfectly behaved in traffic.

I think aswell some of it is due to up bringing, hacking IMO needs to be introduced from a young age - i was leading my now 3yr old out for little walks as a yearling and he got used to traffic in the car park at the yard at that age aswell, and out at shows etc.


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## not_with_it (6 September 2011)

I try to hack out once a week but always in company. Gin is not good hacking alone and I would rather not be a danger to members of the public.
She is naturally a hot spooky horse and is worse when shes fit, which is why I like to go with a friend who has a sensible horse who can box me in if needed. 

At the end of the day Gin is still a horse. She lives out 24/7 in summer and goes for a good gallop when we do hack out.


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## Louise_88 (6 September 2011)

I find it very interesting aswell. I have a dressage horse who evented to begin with so had to do the hacking, jumping, galloping and the busier competitions and he is fab to hack. he is sharp and not a Dumb blood donkey but hes safe to hack, jumps every week/fortnight, hacks 1-2 times a week and goes for a blow out every now and then when the ground is good. He is schooling at Advanced and competing at Medium. He also goes out in the field for most of the day with another horse and jumps into whatever field he wants (shock horror!!) although i would rather he didn't do that lol.

I have also done abit of eventing and have to say the amount of time a dressage horse has to spend in an arena schooling, compared to an eventer is very different. Eventers can get away with not going quite so well on the flat, you can hide alot in a test and still get a fairly good score but you can't do that in pure dressage (mostly anyway) so have to spend more time IMO in the arena so less time for hacking. This is just my opinion though and I am by no means a pro dressage rider or eventer.


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## Santa_Claus (6 September 2011)

IF I remember rightly Mr Hester hacks (well his grooms do) almost all his horses. I would call them dressage horses I think 

Infact as proof his routine says they are hacked twice a week!!

http://www.carlhester.co.uk/Home/DailyRoutine/tabid/63/Default.aspx


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## Kokopelli (7 September 2011)

I know someone with a youngster potential GP dressage horse. He really is amazing.

Anyway she hacks for hours on end going for canters on a loose rein, she always wears a hat to ride, she isn't concerned with all this matchy matchy sparkly stuff and god forbid her horse doesn't even wear boots/ bandages. 

She really is a breathe of fresh air though.


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## xspiralx (7 September 2011)

Interesting comment about warmbloods now having more "blood and fire" and therefore not being suitable for hacking - but it doesn't really wash with me.

It would surprise me if most dressage horses had more 'blood and fire' than a fit racehorse or eventer - both of which types generally go out regularly.

Perhaps it is more that these horses simply aren't hacked much as young horses - therefore it never becomes routine, but becomes something scary and stressful.


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## -Cadence- (7 September 2011)

Rossi gets to hack - the other day we were joined by a fox! - once or twice a week. It helps us both chill, and so long as you don't take uneccessary risks with the ground etc it's no more dangerous or risky than schooling


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## FrodoBeutlin (7 September 2011)

The problem is not dressage horses, it's dressage riders. Dressage riders are the epitome of narcissism.  Please tell me, what is the point of hacking out if the only person who can see you is the odd farmer driving a tractor?!? 

Secondly, dressage riders are completely dependent on mirrors. As far as I know, nobody has yet invented mobile mirrors that you can take along on a hack, allowing you to continuously check your seat and the horse's outline. This clearly makes hacking out unsustainable.

Thirdly, where would we put the Trainer? Most dressage riders are unable to ride without a Trainer, possibly with an accent, sitting on the bench in the corner of the indoor, and a two-way radio system firmly secured on the (patent) boot. To be honest the two-way radio systems cover such a limited distance that they're not really viable on hacks (there clearly is a niche in the market for fake two-way radio systems with pre-recorded messages such as "more flexion", "less angle", "one-two-three, two-two-three, three-two-three" and so forth)

These are just examples, there are plenty more reasons such as the risk of getting mud on your patent Koenigs, the risk of your Swarovski-encrusted gloves/helmet/spurs being struck by lightning in the case of a sudden storm, the risk of your horse's oversized browband being caught in a low branch, etc.etc.etc.


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## ester (7 September 2011)




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## mtj (7 September 2011)

FB you are just not trying hard enough!

I have the Anky amber pad on order - should go very nicely with the hi-viz. 

Mirrors - this can be assisted by encouraging your fellow liveries to clean their lorry windows.  They are just the right height mounted on a warmblood.


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## Worried1 (7 September 2011)

The preparation of eventers and showjumpers is that they are by the nature of their fittening and competition environment exposed to far more, therefore hacking is not suc a big deal. Showjumping shows tend to be bigger so distance from lorry to rings or arenas is greater, they see 'more'. Eventers tend to have to hack from the lorry park to their dressage arena. showjumping ring etc.

At Hickstead this year for the Masters Semi-final there was a lot of muttering because horses had to leave the lorry park head away from the arenas, hack down the road running alongside the A23 and then head into the warm-up from the front.

For Winston this was not an issue as he is regularly hacked in company but some horses were clearly upset by having to 'hack' to the warm-up!

I do still believe that Warmbloods definitely are hotter now than they were a decade ago. 

Racehorses are conditioned to 'hacking' right from the word go. I assume if people took the time and trouble to do the same, as we have done, 'dressage' horses would hack with more regularity and less fuss.

There will always be horses who don't hack whether they are an eventer, a show jumper and I'm sure there must be the odd racehorse out there who doesn't fit your typical stereotype.

Blitz has been hacked and ridden around fields from when we first got him at 3. As a result I feel he is much more secure in his outlook and copes exceptionally in any circumstance - however this is a reflection of his training which has included hacking.


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## MadisonBelle (7 September 2011)

FB! Classic :

I have a warmblood, imported from Holland and she wasn't very keen to hack at all! I would go with a friend then the very next day I would hack alone, okay so I had my 2 dogs   The next hack would be in company, and then solo etc..... Now she is superb! I much prefer hacking alone as can do what I want when I want. Sometimes I may ask for some lateral work, other times she is having a lovely loose canter on the buckle! I got her at 4 and she is now 5. 

I do think hacking is an important part of the overall picture no matter what discipline is being done but of course not all horses are happy which is a shame as it's probably been caused somewhere along the line by human error at a  very young, impressionable age either by being pushed too much or by not being shown the world as a true youngster (ie yearling to breaking)...............


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## kerilli (7 September 2011)

Kokopelli said:



			I know someone with a youngster potential GP dressage horse. He really is amazing.

Anyway she hacks for hours on end going for canters on a loose rein, she always wears a hat to ride, she isn't concerned with all this matchy matchy sparkly stuff and god forbid her horse doesn't even wear boots/ bandages. 

She really is a breathe of fresh air though.
		
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Wow. They'll sack her from the Dressage Queens' Guild though, you should warn her...  

fwiw my dressage trainer, who is based in Germany, often says that out hacking is the best place to school horses. he teaches in arenas (obviously!) but does, iirc, most of the work on his own horses out hacking.
i've seen pics and heard stories of top U.K. dr riders using gallops to train their horses - e.g. seeing other horses go past fast encourages the horse to want to go really forwards which can be channelled into, say, passage, or extension... using the horse's natural inclination rather than having to create the energy with the aids.


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## Puppy (7 September 2011)

FrodoBeutlin said:



			The problem is not dressage horses, it's dressage riders. Dressage riders are the epitome of narcissism.  Please tell me, what is the point of hacking out if the only person who can see you is the odd farmer driving a tractor?!? 

Secondly, dressage riders are completely dependent on mirrors. As far as I know, nobody has yet invented mobile mirrors that you can take along on a hack, allowing you to continuously check your seat and the horse's outline. This clearly makes hacking out unsustainable.

Thirdly, where would we put the Trainer? Most dressage riders are unable to ride without a Trainer, possibly with an accent, sitting on the bench in the corner of the indoor, and a two-way radio system firmly secured on the (patent) boot. To be honest the two-way radio systems cover such a limited distance that they're not really viable on hacks (there clearly is a niche in the market for fake two-way radio systems with pre-recorded messages such as "more flexion", "less angle", "one-two-three, two-two-three, three-two-three" and so forth)

These are just examples, there are plenty more reasons such as the risk of getting mud on your patent Koenigs, the risk of your Swarovski-encrusted gloves/helmet/spurs being struck by lightning in the case of a sudden storm, the risk of your horse's oversized browband being caught in a low branch, etc.etc.etc.
		
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Brilliant!


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## Halfstep (7 September 2011)

FB ha ha ha! Genius! 

I'm lucky, my dressage horse adores hacking. But when I first had him, he'd never been hacked and teaching him took a bit of time and patience, as he'd panic and spin and rear. I persevered as I felt that it would be good for him to learn, and one day he just seem to twig that hacking was fun as it wasn't *work*. And since then he's been a complete dream to hack out on, even jumps some small xc fences (in a dressage saddle, double bridle, patent, crystals, Konig boots, the lot!) and canters happily in an open field. However, I have never, ever allowed him to gallop under saddle, because I feel that if he learned to really let rip, I'd lose the nice relaxation I have on a hack. It is extremely good for proprioception for horses to be ridden on different surfaces and uneven ground - always being on manicured footing actually is detrimental to tendons and ligaments.


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## Perfect_Pirouette (7 September 2011)

FrodoBeutlin said:



			The problem is not dressage horses, it's dressage riders. Dressage riders are the epitome of narcissism.  Please tell me, what is the point of hacking out if the only person who can see you is the odd farmer driving a tractor?!? 

Secondly, dressage riders are completely dependent on mirrors. As far as I know, nobody has yet invented mobile mirrors that you can take along on a hack, allowing you to continuously check your seat and the horse's outline. This clearly makes hacking out unsustainable.

Thirdly, where would we put the Trainer? Most dressage riders are unable to ride without a Trainer, possibly with an accent, sitting on the bench in the corner of the indoor, and a two-way radio system firmly secured on the (patent) boot. To be honest the two-way radio systems cover such a limited distance that they're not really viable on hacks (there clearly is a niche in the market for fake two-way radio systems with pre-recorded messages such as "more flexion", "less angle", "one-two-three, two-two-three, three-two-three" and so forth)

These are just examples, there are plenty more reasons such as the risk of getting mud on your patent Koenigs, the risk of your Swarovski-encrusted gloves/helmet/spurs being struck by lightning in the case of a sudden storm, the risk of your horse's oversized browband being caught in a low branch, etc.etc.etc.
		
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## amandaco2 (7 September 2011)

mine are out in day in at night or visa versa in hot weather
they do a varity of work including lunging, free schooling, jumping/poles, loose jumps, gallops, hacks...
normally they do a schooling session 2-5x week. rest of week is 'other' work


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## humblepie (7 September 2011)

Not a dressage rider although slight claim in that have lessons from a PSG rider but my decent level show horse gets hacked out as it is hugely educational and fortunately we have plenty of private roads where you can do sideways stuff and school.  Whatever we meet out hacking we have probably met worst at a county show, since yet to meet a four in hand western style mail coach or the imps motorcyle display team when out hacking.  Fully understand though that some horses do not enjoy hacking and are not safe to do so for whatever reason.


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## dressage_diva (7 September 2011)

kerilli said:



			i've seen pics and heard stories of top U.K. dr riders using gallops to train their horses - e.g. seeing other horses go past fast encourages the horse to want to go really forwards which can be channelled into, say, passage, or extension... using the horse's natural inclination rather than having to create the energy with the aids.
		
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I'm fairly sure Emilie Faurie has all weather gallops at his yard so I'd imagine he makes use of them with his dressage horses (unless they're just for the liveries). Gareth Hughes also has "canter tracks" at Aspen Grove. Perhaps in the UK more pro dressage riders are coming round to the idea of hacking (like someone else said Carl Hester definitely hacks)?


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## Worried1 (7 September 2011)

Emile does have a canter track and often sends Mr Worried round it when we visit!


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## Lolo (7 September 2011)

To be fair, I think horses are a bit like people in that some have things they can't deal with and often these 'bad' traits can be focussed into something very good.

For the average amateur/ just-breaking-through pro who doesn't have 10 horses in training and endless facilities, why spend years teaching your horse to hack when it's having a nice time the way it is. FWIW, unless he's on a 'galloping' hack where Al does fast work with him Reg spends his hacks on the bit, to the same degree he would in a school. What difference is the location of this schooling session making?


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## nikkimariet (7 September 2011)

Lolo said:



			For the average amateur/ just-breaking-through pro who doesn't have 10 horses in training and endless facilities, why spend years teaching your horse to hack when it's having a nice time the way it is.
		
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Nicely said.


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## kit279 (7 September 2011)

Totally depends on the horse and the rider.  Racehorses in Newmarket have to hack to the gallops - they do it in big strings, like herds, and they do it from very young (yearlings onwards).  So it stands to reason that they get used to it early on.  But there are racehorses that are really difficult to get to the gallops and I've seen some impressive near-misses at the road crossings, even with the kind of well-educated horse friendly traffic you get in a town like Newmarket.

To be devil's advocate here, if you buy a horse bred for and bought for the purpose of going round a school and that is what you and the horse know and enjoy, then why would you put yourself through the unenjoyable and often hazardous process of going out hacking when neither you or the horse really wants to do it.  Carl Hester hacks out which is lovely but I get the impression that he has an enviable amount of off-road hacking at his yard, which makes it a calmer and safer experience.  If he had to hack up a major A-road on Uthopia in heavy irate traffic, I think the hacking might get downgraded in priority!  If you place a high value on hacking as a mental let-down for horses, then you might persevere.  Plus the fact that dressage horses can be and are often expensive, that 'risk-benefit' equation is stacked in favour of not hacking.  

Incidentally, has anyone ever seen or taken a top dressage horse out hunting?! I'm just curious if it resulted in major melt-down or whether the horse enjoyed itself!


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## TheoryX1 (7 September 2011)

FB - you are priceless!  I am killing myself with laughter and you are just so right.  

As I have now decided to re-start dressage with my cob, I guess I must have to totally change my whole way of thinking.  The hacking with a mud encrusted horse (apart from head and under saddle, of course), in my baggy, hay and shavings covered fleece, with rather holey breeches and muddy riding boots, will have to end.  I shall have to make sure he is pristine, always hogged, pulled tail, buy some bandages to match his saddle cloths and I will have to wear something tidy myself as well, plus make sure I hack in my made to measure Davies Riding Boots (yep, I do possess a pair), and purchase a nice bling browband.  Oh god, I dont think I could be bothered with all and can therefore never consider myself a true dressage diva!


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## TGM (7 September 2011)

Loving FB's post!

Just wanted to add that whilst I can understand that people might not want to hack out on a confirmed nutter, I do think it is good for young competition horses to learn to hack out from early days if they are temperamentally suited for it.  Not every potential competition horse is going to make it to the highest levels, and injury/illness can also intervene along the way, so a horse that can hack in a reasonable manner is much more likely to find an alternative career as a RC horse/all-rounder/happy hacker.


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## Lolo (7 September 2011)

On a different note, I'm not sure many on here are qualified to comment on 'dressage horses' as aside from a few who've commented here none of us ride true upper-end (advanced medium and beyond, IMO) dressage and therefore have very little idea about what level of sharpness, athleticism and sensitivity is needed to perform these tests... I'm not sure I'd want to be on board when my amazingly talented horse who is very quick, athletic and hyper-sensitive to everything I ask takes a dislike to something!!!


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## nikkimariet (7 September 2011)

Lolo said:



			On a different note, I'm not sure many on here are qualified to comment on 'dressage horses' as *aside from a few who've commented here none of us ride true upper-end (advanced medium and beyond, IMO) dressage and therefore have very little idea about what level of sharpness, athleticism and sensitivity is needed to perform these tests*... I'm not sure I'd want to be on board when my amazingly talented horse who is very quick, athletic and hyper-sensitive to everything I ask takes a dislike to something!!!
		
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Again, nicely said!


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## -Cadence- (7 September 2011)

Lolo said:



			On a different note, I'm not sure many on here are qualified to comment on 'dressage horses' as aside from a few who've commented here none of us ride true upper-end (advanced medium and beyond, IMO) dressage and therefore have very little idea about what level of sharpness, athleticism and sensitivity is needed to perform these tests... I'm not sure I'd want to be on board when my amazingly talented horse who is very quick, athletic and hyper-sensitive to everything I ask takes a dislike to something!!!
		
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Which is why I'm so lucky with Rossi (I1, so I guess he counts as an athlete )  the other horses I compete not so much! I would only take Ansgar, who I do FEI 6y/o tests with on the trails if I had a death wish!

On a different note, the horses that my mother and I 'produce' at home although competing to high levels (3rd and 4th levels, with I think are A/AM) are usually destined for amatuer homes and therefore we try to get them more comfortable on the trails. Chances are these horses will go to homes with more opportunities to take part in such activities, whereas Ansgar was never hacked before he was imported.


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## Fiona clark (7 September 2011)

Hi there, I used to work at a grandprix dressage yard in West Germany, the horses were never turned out, hacked or jumped.  As they were competing at such a high level they were schooled for one hour a day, the first and last five minutes of their schooling was on a long rein, they often exploded  for fun but as soon as the contact was picked up they were amazing, taught me loads and to be honest I have never sat on horses like that before or since!  I (a few years on) have my own horse and as much as I find hacking dull (after years of taking hacks out with clients), I still make sure she has a couple of hacks thrown in per month, I ride her every second day and she is in at night and out during the day what ever the weather.  I recently had a reiki therapist though who told me she would like to jump so I tried her and wow she was right!  I will carry on with dressage though but yes .... I think a change is as good as a rest, your horse will let you know if they are fed up  x


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## SpottedCat (7 September 2011)

Also, lets not forget, if you event, you kind of have no choice - you have to hack to get the fitness work in. Do not underestimate the number of people who do this with gritted teeth, possibly draw reins, a friend, and who say they would not bother if they did not event as they quite like their life!


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## mystiandsunny (7 September 2011)

I only compete at dressage now, but only have two with dressage breeding.  Have one TB who hacks like a dream, jumps and dressages; one pony who gives everything a go but is traffic shy due to a bad experience as a foal; one pony who'll do anything you ask her to and is pretty bombproof to hack.  One with a fancy dressage sire who is very laid back and safe as houses to hack, and another with fancy dam and sire who is a tad nutty and has taken the best part of a year to hack sensibly with no 'uh oh' moments.  She's better off road, but isn't scared of traffic - just oddly painted signs/gates/shadows!!!  

They all hack twice a week or thereabouts (weekends).  It's fun and they all enjoy it, perking up when we put the hi viz on


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## millimoo (7 September 2011)

To the poster who asked whether anyone took a Dressage horse hunting.
My mum took her older horse (working adv medium). She just about managed to contain him, but he was pretty close to the edge of bolting. He was the Danish Holstein doing Arab impressions waving his tail vertically like a flag.
He was wired for weeks.... She would never take her younger advanced horse, she values her safety, and he's also the one that's less reliable on a hack too.


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## doctordoolittle (8 September 2011)

ahaha FB your post cheered me up!


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## Pachamama (8 September 2011)

Worried1 said:



			Pachamama they do hack but not on their own.

They all hack except Arthur in the company of Finn an older steady Eddie type who will go past anything and gives them confidence. 

Their will always be exceptions to the rule but it is unusual to find a horse confident and happy to hack solo competing as a 'dressage' horse.
		
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Ahhh, thanks for clarifying


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## Pachamama (8 September 2011)

FrodoBeutlin said:



			The problem is not dressage horses, it's dressage riders. Dressage riders are the epitome of narcissism.  Please tell me, what is the point of hacking out if the only person who can see you is the odd farmer driving a tractor?!? 

Secondly, dressage riders are completely dependent on mirrors. As far as I know, nobody has yet invented mobile mirrors that you can take along on a hack, allowing you to continuously check your seat and the horse's outline. This clearly makes hacking out unsustainable.

Thirdly, where would we put the Trainer? Most dressage riders are unable to ride without a Trainer, possibly with an accent, sitting on the bench in the corner of the indoor, and a two-way radio system firmly secured on the (patent) boot. To be honest the two-way radio systems cover such a limited distance that they're not really viable on hacks (there clearly is a niche in the market for fake two-way radio systems with pre-recorded messages such as "more flexion", "less angle", "one-two-three, two-two-three, three-two-three" and so forth)

These are just examples, there are plenty more reasons such as the risk of getting mud on your patent Koenigs, the risk of your Swarovski-encrusted gloves/helmet/spurs being struck by lightning in the case of a sudden storm, the risk of your horse's oversized browband being caught in a low branch, etc.etc.etc.
		
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Love. This. Post


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## diggerbez (8 September 2011)

i think that it very much depends upon individual situations surely rather than just stereotyping? i can imagine that a lot of sharp DR horses are horrible to hack. i used to have lessons on an ex GP horse who had only ever been rideen in an arena- and mainly an indoor one at that and he just did not hack...my SJ trainer also doesn't hack- not because its not valuable but her yard is on a busy main road so its just not safe. she will ride them round the fields and let them have a blast but won't hack out....
i'm sure i read an article where a top eventer (may have been andrew nicholson but i might be wrong) said that he didn't hack because it teachers horses to nap... interesting. personally my horse likes hacking- its in the school that he's badly behaved


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## sarahhelen1977 (9 September 2011)

I never hack my boy - the road that we have to ride up to get to any bridlepaths is dangerous in a car, let alone on a horse. I very occasionally ride him round the field if the ground is good enough, otherwise he works in the school. He only likes being turned out if the weather is nice, and even then only for a short time. And now here's the really crazy part, he is a happy, healthy horse who enjoys his work!!


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## SusieT (9 September 2011)

The only reason 'dressage horses' find hacking stressful is that they have never been introduced to it properly, as 'dressage riders' (and I use the term loosely-look at Carl Hester's horses who are treated like horses) treat them like porcelain and appear to be nervous hackers in general. IMO all young horses should start out hacking for a month or two before they do any proper work, perhaps dressage horses aren't doing this or they are not hacking for anything more than twice a year as some mentioned above-iin which case it is not wonder they are overexcited..
It is ridculous to think that horses that do well at dressage will not be able to hack like normal horses. That is just poor training or over hyped horses. Don't make it into a drama. Take the horse out hacking everyday for a week, or two and they will start to settle, even if it means boxing to safe hacking.


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## SusieT (9 September 2011)

'unusual to find a horse confident and happy to hack solo competing as a 'dressage' horse.'
*******s. Straight and simple. If you bothered to train your horses correctly, considering you sell them on and so require them to be saleable, they would be able to hack alone. No wonder you are getting tired of explaining.. It is not a mystic holy grail, something that is actually straightforward to teach to most horses. There are some that won't-but if all your horses don't hack alone you are doing something wrong, to try and suggest it is the discipline is ridiculous.


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## imr (9 September 2011)

I do think that in general young horses should learn to hack and if you are producing to sell then you should aim to have them hacking. For most horses like hacking and it gives them a break from the school. And a lot of amateurs want a horse that will hack out as well. 

But - it is stupid to hack if there is nowhere safe for you to hack. And its totally pointless and potentially hazardous on a horse which doesn't like it. One thing is trying and persevering and the horse getting the hang of it but there are horses that don't. And imo its dangerous and pointless to persevere with those. Mine both hack out in company and alone (they get used to it) and are both good (as long as no streams etc are involved when they are both terrible) but if I was PS I would do exactly as she has done - hacking CS sounds traumatic for both parties and therefore serves no useful purpose at all. 
MMm Horses are like people, they are all different, so what suits one doesn't always suit another.....


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## rachel_s (9 September 2011)

Taken from wikipedia as I can't find the quote which I'm thinking of 
 [Dressage] Its fundamental purpose is to develop, through standardized progressive training methods, a horse's natural athletic ability and willingness to perform, thereby maximizing its potential as a riding horse. At the peak of a dressage horse's gymnastic development, the horse will respond smoothly to a skilled rider's minimal aids. The rider will be relaxed and appear effort-free while the horse willingly performs the requested movement.

So if the point of dressage is to have a horse which will willingly perform - surely this applies to all settings, not just an arena?  

I understand the sharpness/ ability explanation to a certain extent but think that is far more about the communication of the aids (the driving a formula 1 car vs old banger) - but surely obedience and willingness to work for the rider no matter what is also a key factor in dressage and therefore horses should be able to hack out for this reason.


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## Thistle (9 September 2011)

We have just come back from a fun outing!

B went over to jump a friends dressage horse that is competing med. He also hunts, does XC and fun rides (did Burghley ride last week) is doing 2 Med tests on Sun and is off to the beach for the week next week. He has also done some showing. He does hack but very carefully as he is dodgy in traffic (think he may have had an accident, has some scars)

This true allrounder is a 14hh very hairy cob.

In the snow they put a lunge line round his chest and through his stirups and used him to pull a sledge round the field in trot. This was a week before he went to the regionals, where he qualified for the Nationals.

I know he is exceptional, but I think he is so good because as a youngster he did a bit of everything and has never been wrapped in cotton wool.


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## Pachamama (9 September 2011)

My horse is an ex-racer who only knew how to go out in a string. Took a bit of effort (about 10-15 days) to get her used to going out on her own, but we got there. I must be a super-gifted rider if I can achieve what so many 'proper' dressage riders can't 

And YES, I am taking the p!ss


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## marmalade76 (9 September 2011)

kit279 said:



			Incidentally, has anyone ever seen or taken a top dressage horse out hunting?! I'm just curious if it resulted in major melt-down or whether the horse enjoyed itself!
		
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Yep, this one:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avhYukjLB4A

Not sure if he was ever classed as a 'top' horse, but he hacked regularly, alone and in bigish groups (there'd be about six of us and we'd have a good gallop through the stubble fields too!), jumped regularly and hunted with Brugs' brother. He loved it and was a very good boy!

I have also hunted with Brian Hutton who was once mounted on one of Pammy's warmblood dressage horses who was also very well behaved. 

So there!


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## Amaretto (13 September 2011)

My dutch boy has been hacked since a just backed 4y/o.  Whilst he can be sharp and a bit spooky when schooling, he is fantastic to hack.  Added bonus that it is great for warming up and cooling down before/after schooling.  Laura B's horses hack out, as do Carl's & Charlotte's.....


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## Halfstep (13 September 2011)

Just remembered I have some photos of my dressage horse jumping out hacking: 







Doing his normal job:








But I'm lucky, he enjoys it. I wouldn't force it if a horse doesn't like it, but would try to teach them to where possible.


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## TarrSteps (13 September 2011)

I do think there is a difference, too, when you're talking about horses on "top" yards where there are a lot of horses to get done in a day, perhaps not many very competent riders available and there has to be some serious risk assessment done on account of what the horses are worth and who is paying for them.

Also, not everyone has safe hacking.  I wouldn't want to be the one to tell an owner his 5-figure+ horse ended up under a bus!

Hacking seems to be a religion in this country but it's not necessarily the same everywhere you go.  Lots of people in the world either have no hacking or a limited track around a field or similar (but maybe they have more turn out or access to lots of good hay - does that make them "better" systems?) and their horses cope okay.  Yes, horses need exposure to different experiences but there are other ways to get that done, too.

Yes, I think it's good for horses to hack but, no, I don't think it's essential to do lots of it, especially if the risks outweigh the benefits.  It's just one of those things where people want "their" way to be right and everyone else to be a cruel horse abuser.


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## Mel1 (13 September 2011)

may I say that I find this discussion very interesting,

in the summer edition of "Rider" 2011, there is an article about Carl Hester (page 35-37)

i quote: "Carl is adamant that his horses are allowed to be horses whatever their values explaining: " I don't see any benefit in keeping them in all the time, as it is not good for them mentally or physically" ....
"I either school them or they go for a hack". he adds: "I like to add a variety to the horses' work programme so we try to include hill work and vary the pace out hacking as well - sometimes we'll take them out for a few long canter to build up their stamina, other times they might go for a walk around the block to strengthen tendons and muscles. Not only that, but I think it is important that the horses get to see as many different sights and sounds as possible because this builds up their confidence."

but I mean who is HE really to contradict us expert on this forum?? plus I'm sure all his horses are easy and happy hacker not really worth that much...

I think his career and results speaks for themselves


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## ihatework (13 September 2011)

TarrSteps said:



			I do think there is a difference, too, when you're talking about horses on "top" yards where there are a lot of horses to get done in a day, perhaps not many very competent riders available and there has to be some serious risk assessment done on account of what the horses are worth and who is paying for them.
		
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I think this is very very true. At the end of the day, in general, 'top' horses are very valuable animals with a very specific purpose. That doesn't mean we shouldn't try and keep them in as nice/natural/varied environment as possible but the reality is it is often too risky and impractical.

I am very 'pro' hacking and variety. But then I am a one horse owner who in reality will only be average at best. 

I love the cob Thistle is talking about, that must be some horse.
I was also chatting to a friend at the weekend. She did junior british event teams and has also ridden advanced She has a stallion who is gorgous and an overgrown pet! In addition to eventing him and doing dressage to national level, he also goes out hunting and does a bit of stick & ball at home!


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## Worried1 (13 September 2011)

SusieT said:



			'unusual to find a horse confident and happy to hack solo competing as a 'dressage' horse.'
*******s. Straight and simple. If you bothered to train your horses correctly, considering you sell them on and so require them to be saleable, they would be able to hack alone. No wonder you are getting tired of explaining.. It is not a mystic holy grail, something that is actually straightforward to teach to most horses. There are some that won't-but if all your horses don't hack alone you are doing something wrong, to try and suggest it is the discipline is ridiculous.
		
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Given this is just an informal debate your response is needlessly aggresive. 

We don't sell our horses on, we produce them for ourselves, the horse being sold is an exceptional case on behalf of a client.

Now if you think you can 'train' my horses to hack pleasantly on their on OWN while dealing with our surrounding environment then I would be very interested in your strategies; because as a former event rider who evented to a decent level in the days before intro and pre novice, Mr Worried knows all about the importance of hacking both in company and solo.


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## maresmaid (13 September 2011)

I bought a young horse earlier this year, I like to keep my horses to the end of their days and i chose this mare very carefully because I wanted a good competition horse for the next 10 years or so, with the possibility of switching to an "Old Ladies Hack" in later life. She is starting her career as a dressage horse, but she hacks regularly, both in company and on her own. We don't have much access to bridleways but the slow road work that we can do up and down hills is beneficial to muscle development as well as  assisting mental wellbeing and I consider it an integral part of her routine. She also lives out 24/7 in summer and is turned out for 4 or 5 hours daily in the winter time.


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## TarrSteps (14 September 2011)

Mel1 said:



			but I mean who is HE really to contradict us expert on this forum?? plus I'm sure all his horses are easy and happy hacker not really worth that much...
		
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Yes, but I know people who makes GP horses and like them all to jump a bit.  That doesn't mean it's the ONLY way to make them, it means it works for that outfit.  Good trainers do want their horses to be well rounded and conditioned - lots do some sort of "fast work" - but they also have to work with what they've got.  And they have to take the individual horse's needs into account.

I suspect Carl has access to safe hacking and relatively good footing - I'm sure there are lots of people on here who regularly hack places his horses would not be allowed to go!  

Btw, almost everyone has said their horses do leave the school, just that they may not hack as in go out for hours and hours.  If you have a horse for fun and hacking is one of the things you want to do then it's very important and worth a) having a suitable horse and b) working on it.  If you don't care whether or not you hack and it's not what you have a horse for, then it's not such a massive issue.


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## Spiderman (14 September 2011)

Spider is off to the BD Nationals tomorrow, Thursday, to compete on Friday.  We are leaving an hour earlier than necessary in order to let him have..................................





a 'let my hair down' hack in the forest before loading up again and heading off again to Stoneleigh!  
Unfortunately the girl that jumps him wasn't able to come this week or Spider would have also jumped yesterday. So instead, I lunged him over some raised poles then loose jumped him.
A lot of training involves psychology imo and if it makes my boy happy then that's what I'll do!


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## doctordoolittle (15 September 2011)

Spiderman said:



			Spider is off to the BD Nationals tomorrow, Thursday, to compete on Friday.  We are leaving an hour earlier than necessary in order to let him have..................................

a 'let my hair down' hack in the forest before loading up again and heading off again to Stoneleigh!  
Unfortunately the girl that jumps him wasn't able to come this week or Spider would have also jumped yesterday. So instead, I lunged him over some raised poles then loose jumped him.
A lot of training involves psychology imo and if it makes my boy happy then that's what I'll do! 

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Good luck tomorrow spider! 
Hope you enjoyed letting your hair down


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## soupdragon71 (15 September 2011)

TheoryX1 said:



			Sorry, no comprendez.  I do always fail to understand why 'Dressage Horses' are treated in any different way to any other horses because they are 'Dressage Horses'.  My daughter has an event and dressage horse. It goes out 24/7, it gets hacked out very regularily, um its a horse and is treated like a horse.  Its not wrapped in cotton wool, bandaged up to within an inch of its life (she doesnt even use boots unless she is jumping) and treated with kid gloves.

I also fail to see the distinction between eventers and dressage riders, although as an eventing mummy I am aware that a lot of fittening work is done out hacking, ie hill work, cantering, interval training etc.  However, as dressage horses need to be fit as well, why are they so different, and not hacked etc.  What I am trying to convey is why are people so bl**dy precious about 'Dressage Horses'.  We own one, and its treated as the horse that it actually is, and oh yes, its quite valuable before anyone shoots me down in flames.
		
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Totally agree! I event but current horse is a good dressage horse (and is worth a lot more than any horse I have bought previously). In summer he is out 24 hours with my 2 retired TBs - I leave it as late as possible before they come in for winter (it is long enough after all). We are due to go to the BRC championships tomorrow but I've turned him out tonight because he kept me awake earlier this week, when weather was bad, shrieking because he wanted out. I treat them all the same and they do want to be out (admittedly the TBs like to be in if it is cold, wet and windy - wimps!)


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## Amymay (16 September 2011)

Worried1 said:



			There will always be exceptions to the rule *but it is unusual to find a horse confident and happy to hack solo competing as a 'dressage' horse.*

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Why?


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## thetrainer'smissus (16 September 2011)

In my (fairly considerable ) experience, there are lots of "rules" about what owners should and shouldn't do with their dressage horses - more so than in any other discipline. Certainly hacking out (or not hacking out) seems to be one way that dressage riders distinguish themselves from the rest, but they are very often over-horsed, came to riding late in life and struggle to cope with any "behaviour". The pure joy and adrenalin rush of riding a fit horse at speed is something they never experience, which is a pity.


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## Amaranta (16 September 2011)

thetrainer'smissus said:



			In my (fairly considerable ) experience, there are lots of "rules" about what owners should and shouldn't do with their dressage horses - more so than in any other discipline. Certainly hacking out (or not hacking out) seems to be one way that dressage riders distinguish themselves from the rest, but they are very often over-horsed, came to riding late in life and struggle to cope with any "behaviour". The pure joy and adrenalin rush of riding a fit horse at speed is something they never experience, which is a pity.
		
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Nail on head 

Have to say that my horses do hack out but then that is all they do for the first month after backing.  The AM horse is indeed 'interesting' to hack at times but is 100% in traffic etc etc etc.  My horses also get turn out everyday and, as youngsters live out 24/7.

I do admit to the dead sheep and the bling though


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## skydancer (16 September 2011)

TheoryX1 said:



			Sorry, no comprendez.  I do always fail to understand why 'Dressage Horses' are treated in any different way to any other horses because they are 'Dressage Horses'.  My daughter has an event and dressage horse. It goes out 24/7, it gets hacked out very regularily, um its a horse and is treated like a horse.  Its not wrapped in cotton wool, bandaged up to within an inch of its life (she doesnt even use boots unless she is jumping) and treated with kid gloves.

I also fail to see the distinction between eventers and dressage riders, although as an eventing mummy I am aware that a lot of fittening work is done out hacking, ie hill work, cantering, interval training etc.  However, as dressage horses need to be fit as well, why are they so different, and not hacked etc.  What I am trying to convey is why are people so bl**dy precious about 'Dressage Horses'.  We own one, and its treated as the horse that it actually is, and oh yes, its quite valuable before anyone shoots me down in flames.
		
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ditto this!!


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## Worried1 (16 September 2011)

amymay said:



			Why?
		
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Look back to my other posts. I think I have given a good explanation. They are simply not conditioned to it.


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## Booboos (16 September 2011)

thetrainer'smissus said:



			In my (fairly considerable ) experience, there are lots of "rules" about what owners should and shouldn't do with their dressage horses - more so than in any other discipline. Certainly hacking out (or not hacking out) seems to be one way that dressage riders distinguish themselves from the rest, but they are very often over-horsed, came to riding late in life and struggle to cope with any "behaviour". The pure joy and adrenalin rush of riding a fit horse at speed is something they never experience, which is a pity.
		
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In a thread full of people saying that they hack their dressage horses you conclude that we are over-horsed, come to riding late in life and struggle to cope with any 'behaviour'. Ta very much. Is there any particular discipline you specialise in so that I can conclude that all people who do X are very rude?


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## thetrainer'smissus (16 September 2011)

Goodness Booboos, that's quite an interpretation of what I said. Perhaps you might like to read what's there, not what's not there?


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## diggerbez (16 September 2011)

Booboos said:



			In a thread full of people saying that they hack their dressage horses you conclude that we are over-horsed, come to riding late in life and struggle to cope with any 'behaviour'. Ta very much. Is there any particular discipline you specialise in so that I can conclude that all people who do X are very rude?
		
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hahahaha exactly my thoughts booboos


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