# Video of my horse lunging...have a giggle!



## RCP Equestrian (1 March 2013)

Yeah....my horse is normal! 

Something to make you giggle on a Friday, enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5U5eMC2Bqo&list=UUIM5TskOpPNSHEWGJDgmZSA&index=1


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## Mariposa (1 March 2013)

Love the fact he works so beautifully and then suddenly wahooooooo! That's quite some buck he's got there!!


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## CobsGalore (1 March 2013)

Lol it's like he bucks in slow motion! Made me giggle, thanks!


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## MileAMinute (1 March 2013)

He's a cutie....a naughty cutie, but a cutie none the less!


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## RCP Equestrian (1 March 2013)

Haha yeah he is pretty special! 

He does this when I ride him if he's fresh....certainly taught me to sit tight! 

Crazy beastling


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## RCP Equestrian (1 March 2013)

Mariposa said:



			Love the fact he works so beautifully and then suddenly wahooooooo! That's quite some buck he's got there!!
		
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Haha thats what makes me laugh about it too, how he's tootling along then BOOM!!



Thought I'd share the laughs for everyone!


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## dollymix (1 March 2013)

lovely horse! 
Just a note...and in NO way a criticism as I see that you have said on the video that he is in the process of having his back and saddle sorted.... But my mare, who was previously 100% on the pessoa started doing this - only in canter. It flagged up a problem with her pelvis, and tightness across the top of her rump (forget the name of the muscle now  ) - might just be worth bearing in mind if you are having the physio any time soon!

He is a very handsome boy


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## pony&cow (1 March 2013)

I think he's bucking because of the pink lunge line! Haha. : )


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## RCP Equestrian (1 March 2013)

dollymix said:



			lovely horse! 
Just a note...and in NO way a criticism as I see that you have said on the video that he is in the process of having his back and saddle sorted.... But my mare, who was previously 100% on the pessoa started doing this - only in canter. It flagged up a problem with her pelvis, and tightness across the top of her rump (forget the name of the muscle now  ) - might just be worth bearing in mind if you are having the physio any time soon!

He is a very handsome boy 

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Thanks for that! Its just a routine check up for him as he has beefed out a hell of a lot over the winter so just want to have them checked "just in case" he hasn't given me any reason to think he's sore, he's just always done this in a pessoa and I find it hilarious! He's just a cheeky chappy who is far too high on life! I want some of his enthusiasim!! 

But when they come I'll have them check anyway  he bucks under saddle when he's fresh too, no less than this, so I have to sit tight haha


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## RCP Equestrian (1 March 2013)

pony&cow said:



			I think he's bucking because of the pink lunge line! Haha. : )
		
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Haha yeah, its not his colour!


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## YasandCrystal (1 March 2013)

dollymix said:



			lovely horse! 
Just a note...and in NO way a criticism as I see that you have said on the video that he is in the process of having his back and saddle sorted.... But my mare, who was previously 100% on the pessoa started doing this - only in canter. It flagged up a problem with her pelvis, and tightness across the top of her rump (forget the name of the muscle now  ) - might just be worth bearing in mind if you are having the physio any time soon!

He is a very handsome boy 

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I was always told that it is recommended to only walk and trot in a pessoa, not canter, unless you have one very balanced horse.


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## RCP Equestrian (1 March 2013)

YasandCrystal said:



			I was always told that it is recommended to only walk and trot in a pessoa, not canter, unless you have one very balanced horse.
		
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He is very balanced and very well schooled, but there isn't a lot I can do when he does this, he just goes off on one himself  once he's had his "crazy moment" he works beautifully and is actually really calm! Lol


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## CobsGalore (1 March 2013)

YasandCrystal said:



			I was always told that it is recommended to only walk and trot in a pessoa, not canter, unless you have one very balanced horse.
		
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Same


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## CobsGalore (1 March 2013)

RCP Equestrian said:



			He is very balanced and very well schooled, but there isn't a lot I can do when he does this, he just goes off on one himself  once he's had his "crazy moment" he works beautifully and is actually really calm! Lol
		
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I think it was in response to Dollymix's post about bucking in canter


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## YasandCrystal (1 March 2013)

RCP Equestrian said:



			He is very balanced and very well schooled, but there isn't a lot I can do when he does this, he just goes off on one himself  once he's had his "crazy moment" he works beautifully and is actually really calm! Lol
		
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Yes Op - I realised you were not asking for canter  He's a lovely horse, just my type.  I was more referring generally and to the other poster re canter and a pessoa.


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## RCP Equestrian (1 March 2013)

CobsGalore said:



			I think it was in response to Dollymix's post about bucking in canter

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So it was!


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## RCP Equestrian (1 March 2013)

YasandCrystal said:



			Yes Op - I realised you were not asking for canter  He's a lovely horse, just my type.  I was more referring generally and to the other poster re canter and a pessoa.
		
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I have just realised, sorry! Rushed into my reply  quite like my horse into a bucking frenzy!!


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## Allie5 (1 March 2013)

Cheeky boy! I recognise that noise as well. I don't know how to describe it really. Its not a snort but its a sort of rattly exhaled breath with every stride. My 4 yr old does it as well and that's normally my sign that something explosive is about to happen!


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## AdorableAlice (1 March 2013)

Lovely horse, he is a credit to you.

I have never used a pessoa or seen one in use until watching your lovely boy, I am just wondering how the equipment works, it seems so tight and restrictive in front, is the horse able to stretch forward and down to allow the back and hindquarters to step through over a soft swinging back ?

Forgive my ignorance please ! but even though the horse was encouraged forwards the kit looks like it prevents him from opening the frame and going forwards.


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## LaurenDobson (1 March 2013)

My horse does this in a pessoa, especially if hes a little fresh! One minute hes in  alovely trot, next thing back legs in the air!! Cheeky monkeys arent they! Your horse is lovely by the way!


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## RCP Equestrian (1 March 2013)

Allie5 said:



			Cheeky boy! I recognise that noise as well. I don't know how to describe it really. Its not a snort but its a sort of rattly exhaled breath with every stride. My 4 yr old does it as well and that's normally my sign that something explosive is about to happen!
		
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Haha he isn't the only one then! He makes this noise as soon as he walks out his stable! Piggy Boo is his nickname....because of the weird snorting noises he makes  he does it when I first get on him, it helps me to know that theres something scary out there waiting to jump out...so I'm ready! Glue and all!


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## RCP Equestrian (1 March 2013)

AdorableAlice said:



			Lovely horse, he is a credit to you.

I have never used a pessoa or seen one in use until watching your lovely boy, I am just wondering how the equipment works, it seems so tight and restrictive in front, is the horse able to stretch forward and down to allow the back and hindquarters to step through over a soft swinging back ?

Forgive my ignorance please ! but even though the horse was encouraged forwards the kit looks like it prevents him from opening the frame and going forwards.
		
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Aw thank you 

No it isn't restricting at all! He isn't really the best horse to demonstrate on as he has a naturally very high head carriage (gelderlander like! Its the dutch in him  ) but when he's chilled and got over his bucking frenzy he really does drop his head and works beautifully. He does for a fraction of a second in this vid until he is spooked again haha. But if I got a video of him at the end he's a different horse, but then that would be a boring video


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## melbiswas (1 March 2013)

Exactly my view Adorable Alice but I too have never used one either. They do seem to restrict the neck somehow.

I was wondering if you get that buck under saddle too OP. you must have a sticky bum ! You don't happen to be tiny and up for riding a Thelwellian Sec A when he comes back into work.......


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## RCP Equestrian (1 March 2013)

LaurenDobson said:



			My horse does this in a pessoa, especially if hes a little fresh! One minute hes in  alovely trot, next thing back legs in the air!! Cheeky monkeys arent they! Your horse is lovely by the way!
		
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Thank you! He is my world, hence the huge amounts of pics and pointless videos of him  but he brightens my day so thought I'd share it  

Haha they certainly are cheeky monkeys, I'd have thought it would be impossible to buck like that in a pessoa! But, as always, Boo has found a way!


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## melbiswas (1 March 2013)

Our posts crossed OP. I did wonder if it was his natural carriage / current mood !


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## RCP Equestrian (1 March 2013)

melbiswas said:



			Exactly my view Adorable Alice but I too have never used one either. They do seem to restrict the neck somehow.

I was wondering if you get that buck under saddle too OP. you must have a sticky bum ! You don't happen to be tiny and up for riding a Thelwellian Sec A when he comes back into work.......
		
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He does buck like this under saddle if very fresh!  I'm not sure how I manage to stay on but he is quite a gentleman as if he feels you getting unbalanced or hanging off he stops, as if to say "whoops, are you alright?"  

I'm actually tiny...only 5ft...and love little welshies! What have I let myself in for??


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## AdorableAlice (1 March 2013)

RCP Equestrian said:



			Aw thank you 

No it isn't restricting at all! He isn't really the best horse to demonstrate on as he has a naturally very high head carriage (gelderlander like! Its the dutch in him  ) but when he's chilled and got over his bucking frenzy he really does drop his head and works beautifully. He does for a fraction of a second in this vid until he is spooked again haha. But if I got a video of him at the end he's a different horse, but then that would be a boring video 

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Thank you, is it a bit of kit mainly used on established horses rather than youngsters ?  I ask because I have a newish horse, only 6 yr old, who has been hung onto in the previous home and is very inverted.  Thankfully she is built to be able to go down and forwards but in her mind it is impossible.

I have a chambon but as yet, I have not tried anything on her other than riding with wide, low hands and kidding her into trying to stretch.  she had a full mot when I bought her and all is in order.


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## Tickles (1 March 2013)

Sorry but I'm not sure he is happy in the video? It just didn't look like high-spirited bucks to me.

Looked, to someone who doesn't know him, as though he wasn't that happy in his mouth (hard to tell as vid a bit flickery for me but he seemed to be opening it a fair bit and it looked uncomfy) and was bucking to get the training aid away from his back end when you were asking him to go forwards - in fact, there is another thought... does he /know/ you aren't asking him for canter when you click? Most of the bucking episodes seemed to be immediately after you'd done that.


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## RCP Equestrian (1 March 2013)

Tickles said:



			Sorry but I'm not sure he is happy in the video? It just didn't look like high-spirited bucks to me.

Looked, to someone who doesn't know him, as though he wasn't that happy in his mouth (hard to tell as vid a bit flickery for me but he seemed to be opening it a fair bit and it looked uncomfy) and was bucking to get the training aid away from his back end when you were asking him to go forwards - in fact, there is another thought... does he /know/ you aren't asking him for canter when you click? Most of the bucking episodes seemed to be immediately after you'd done that.
		
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No he's just a fruit cake when he first comes out, he does this whether he has it on or not, I sometimes just lunge him without anything on, just a bridle and he's exactly the same LOL its when he spooks he just can't contain his excitment and his reaction is to buck! Bucks aren't always related to pain, he does it when he's excited. He does chew on his bit a lot but I think its habit as he's always done it (his teeth are fine) and he's only 7 so its probs a baby thing too!

After 15-20mins of riding you would never think he bucked like he does! He bucks on the horse walker too so I just accept thats the way he is and its something he's always done, like when he jumps a fence big when he lands he'll have a buck and shake of his head, to me he's just enjoying himself  he's never ever done it to get me off and I never feel he's doing it due to pain, I've had the pyhsio out before and they've said why am I here theres nothing wrong  from an outside perspective I can see his crazy bucks might not look great, but if you knew him you would realise this is normal Boo behaviour!


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## RCP Equestrian (1 March 2013)

AdorableAlice said:



			Thank you, is it a bit of kit mainly used on established horses rather than youngsters ?  I ask because I have a newish horse, only 6 yr old, who has been hung onto in the previous home and is very inverted.  Thankfully she is built to be able to go down and forwards but in her mind it is impossible.

I have a chambon but as yet, I have not tried anything on her other than riding with wide, low hands and kidding her into trying to stretch.  she had a full mot when I bought her and all is in order.
		
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I think it would be a help and I think work best in trot. I sometimes put him over trotting poles on a curve which helps him to drop his head too. Its definitely helped him to lower and use his back, as you can see he has a naturally high head carriage so its been hard to build his muscles across his back


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## PoppyAnderson (1 March 2013)

AdorableAlice said:



			Thank you, is it a bit of kit mainly used on established horses rather than youngsters ?  I ask because I have a newish horse, only 6 yr old, who has been hung onto in the previous home and is very inverted.  Thankfully she is built to be able to go down and forwards but in her mind it is impossible.

I have a chambon but as yet, I have not tried anything on her other than riding with wide, low hands and kidding her into trying to stretch.  she had a full mot when I bought her and all is in order.
		
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I'm taking a video of mine later in the Pessoa - I'll upload it so you can have a look. I'd only work a 6 yr old in it for very short bursts and only in walk at first, until they get used to it.


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## PoppyAnderson (1 March 2013)

RCP Equestrian said:



			he'll have a buck and shake of his head, to me he's just enjoying himself 

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Maybe but I'd want to be absolutely sure, as it's unlikely.


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## AdorableAlice (1 March 2013)

PoppyAnderson said:



			I'm taking a video of mine later in the Pessoa - I'll upload it so you can have a look. I'd only work a 6 yr old in it for very short bursts and only in walk at first, until they get used to it.
		
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Thank you.


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## silvershoes (1 March 2013)

PoppyAnderson said:



			Maybe but I'd want to be absolutely sure, as it's unlikely.
		
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I am sure, if you read the post he has the pyhsio out very regularly. He has never had a bad back in the 2 1/2 yrs I've had him and I've been told has a very strong back. He never gets tight through his back or tense, I would never upload a video of him like this if I ever thought he was in pain. I have a bad back, but he gets the pyhsio even when he doesnt rather than me  I appreciate your concern but everyone who knows him can vouch that this simply is "just Boo"!


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## mcnaughty (1 March 2013)

Looks to me like he is bucking because of the rear part of the passoa? Rather than click, why don't you give him definite commands like trot on rather than clicking.  I would slacken off the front end to allow him to stretch downwards and forwards.


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## RCP Equestrian (1 March 2013)

silvershoes said:



			I am sure, if you read the post he has the pyhsio out very regularly. He has never had a bad back in the 2 1/2 yrs I've had him and I've been told has a very strong back. He never gets tight through his back or tense, I would never upload a video of him like this if I ever thought he was in pain. I have a bad back, but he gets the pyhsio even when he doesnt rather than me  I appreciate your concern but everyone who knows him can vouch that this simply is "just Boo"! 

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Sorry was logged in on my other account....it is me! LOL


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## RCP Equestrian (1 March 2013)

mcnaughty said:



			Looks to me like he is bucking because of the rear part of the passoa? Rather than click, why don't you give him definite commands like trot on rather than clicking.  I would slacken off the front end to allow him to stretch downwards and forwards.
		
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He's really good with my aids actually (I can lunge him without a lunge line pretty successfully!) but when he cramps up a bit I just click to encourage him to trot forward which he responds to, when I ask for canter I say "canter" and trot I say "trot" but to keep him in the same pace and to go more forward he responds to a click. Might be backward to some but just what works for him  this is merely just a snapshot of his first 1.30 mins of him on the lunge, and I hate the sound of my voice on vid so didnt say very much!


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## dollymix (2 March 2013)

Fair enough... Mine was only advice as mine went from having been happy to canter in the pessoa for over six months, to similar bucking antics. Was only offering advice based on my own experience.


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## tallyho! (2 March 2013)

Sorry but that Pessoa is far too tight in front. Bordering on rollkur if you ask me.

I see one unhappy horse. Nothing silly about it but the owner.


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## dreamcometrue (2 March 2013)

tallyho! said:



			Sorry but that Pessoa is far too tight in front. Bordering on rollkur if you ask me.

I see one unhappy horse. Nothing silly about it but the owner.
		
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Ditto.  I don't think its funny either.


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## tallyho! (2 March 2013)

Wigwam_bam said:



			Charming... 

I don't see anything bordering rollkur, i thought rollkur on the lunge looks like this.. 







not this...








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Just saying what i see. It's on a public forum isn't it?

It does not have to look like the above to be rolkur.


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## tallyho! (2 March 2013)

Wigwam_bam said:



			Hmm, People seem to use the 'Its on a public forum' excuse just to be rude though, but sure, public forum and all...

Pretty sure the above is rollkur? So whats it supposed to look like??
		
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Do your own research, I'm not your secretary! Ny my fault you changed your post halfway through my reply.

I was not being rude. I stated my opinion. Again, do your own research on that one too


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## Toast (2 March 2013)

Far from Rollkur, OP, take no notice.


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## tallyho! (2 March 2013)

Wigwam_bam said:



			I added to my post, not changed it. 

Good lord. Not even going to bother..
		
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Well don't then. What has got it to do with you?


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## Lurds (2 March 2013)

Hardly rollkur his just behind the vertical? If his always done it leave her to it! Hardly killing him is it?


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## tallyho! (2 March 2013)

Wigwam_bam said:



			What has it got to do with you? _Hypocrite_. 

I simply answered your post stating how it looks nothing like rollkur.
		
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Lol! How am I a hypocrite? 

A poster posts a video of a horse doing what they think is funny. I reply saying I don't think it is. You could ask what has it got to do with anyone who replied. I posted my opinion, however different it may be from yrs and you jump down my throat. 

As far as I am concerned, I commented on a post. I comment on many posts in case you hadn't noticed.

You show me a picture of a pony being hyperflexed in comparison. Your opinion differed to mine and that as far as I can see your problem. It's not my job to show you what hyperflexion is and you get your knickers in a twist.

It's not my fault.


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## Ibblebibble (2 March 2013)

my first thoughts were that the horse looked blocked in front when being asked to go forwards so he's bucking in protest rather than it being high spirits, as someone else has said it's always just after you've 'clicked' him on. Try walking fast with your arms clamped to your sides, it's how i showed my daughter how hard you make it for the horse when you block the front end


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## Toast (2 March 2013)

The difference being that what you posted, was incorrect. There is no evidence of rollkur in that entire video. It might be your opinion but it doesnt make it right


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## tallyho! (2 March 2013)

My full opinion on the matter is that the horse is very tight in its neck, poll and sacroiliac joint. 

The is no tracking up, the horse is not supple nor is it through in its body. The Pessoa is far too tight in front and there is no stretching of the neck. If you think lowering the head is stretching then, perhaps think again.

It does not swing it's shoulders forward as it cannot due to the restrictive action of the Pessoa. I think it's probably the worst I have ever seen a Pessoa being used. It's is basically compressing the horse into itself... Not allowing any impulsion from the back at all. A very restrictive picture all in all. 

And if that is how this horse supposedly is all of the time, then, it's even sadder. The horse may have a strong back now, but that will not last if it is not allowed to stretch and flex. He is very on the forehand but looks like it is trying to elevate the front end and can't. That's why the back end can bounce up and down like that as most of the horses weight is in front.


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## Holly Hocks (2 March 2013)

I just thought the horse looked uncomfortable and as someone else said, tight in front.  When I have seen a Pessoa used on a horse on my yard it's always looked like the horse is stretching forwards and down in it and that it is using the back end more than the one in this vid.  But that's just my opinion.


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## ebonyallen (2 March 2013)

Oh bless, what a little sweetie.


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## tallyho! (2 March 2013)

Toast said:



			The difference being that what you posted, was incorrect. There is no evidence of rollkur in that entire video. It might be your opinion but it doesnt make it right 

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Most people think it is a brilliant video! That is incorrect but I don't see anyone being asked to explain themselves.

Rolkur is widely understood as hyperflexion in modern times. In fact the term can be used to describe the position of the horses head where it has been fixed into a position that forces the cervical vertebrae into a "shape". Yes, most commonly, over bent or deep and round. That is why this controversy exists.

People say its not rolkur unless it looks like that pony when the word has been used for centuries in the old books e.g. Geuriniere to describe any sort of restriction.

That is the context in which it *should* be thought of. In this context, draw reins, gags etc could all be included as rolkur. And should be.

However now, the huge publicity around it only discriminates gross hyperflexion a la Anky. So, when I used the term to describe this, it's seen as a mistaken fact. When strictly speaking, by the old classical terms of training, it should be classed as restriction of proper movement or rolkur. The obsession for horses necks to be a certain "shape" is endemic and no one seems to think its rolkur unless its teeth are in its breastbone!


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## Wheels (2 March 2013)

tallyho! said:



			My full opinion on the matter is that the horse is very tight in its neck, poll and sacroiliac joint. 

The is no tracking up, the horse is not supple nor is it through in its body. The Pessoa is far too tight in front and there is no stretching of the neck. If you think lowering the head is stretching then, perhaps think again.

It does not swing it's shoulders forward as it cannot due to the restrictive action of the Pessoa. I think it's probably the worst I have ever seen a Pessoa being used. It's is basically compressing the horse into itself... Not allowing any impulsion from the back at all. A very restrictive picture all in all. 

And if that is how this horse supposedly is all of the time, then, it's even sadder. The horse may have a strong back now, but that will not last if it is not allowed to stretch and flex. He is very on the forehand but looks like it is trying to elevate the front end and can't. That's why the back end can bounce up and down like that as most of the horses weight is in front.
		
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Great post

I'm not sure the op has fitted it incorrectly, every photo I have seen I have thought the pessoa's are tight. I would want to aim for the horse being in a similar frame as during riding but I can't say I'd want my horse going in this manner


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## Persephone (2 March 2013)

Ok, I have tried, watched it several times. I don't see a happy horse.

I don't find it funny, I'd be worried if it was my horse.


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## Gingerwitch (2 March 2013)

RCP Equestrian said:



			Sorry was logged in on my other account....it is me! LOL
		
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Oh so your Silvershoes too ?


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## Gingerwitch (2 March 2013)

silvershoes said:



			I am sure, if you read the post he has the pyhsio out very regularly. He has never had a bad back in the 2 1/2 yrs I've had him and I've been told has a very strong back. He never gets tight through his back or tense, I would never upload a video of him like this if I ever thought he was in pain. I have a bad back, but he gets the pyhsio even when he doesnt rather than me  I appreciate your concern but everyone who knows him can vouch that this simply is "just Boo"! 

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why would you be posting under two names on the same night ?


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## Aarrghimpossiblepony (2 March 2013)

Watched the video and the others that followed of the jumping.

Struck me as a potentially good horse putting up with a lot of stuff that wasn't good at all.


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## tallyho! (2 March 2013)

Persephone said:



			Ok, I have tried, watched it several times. I don't see a happy horse.

I don't find it funny, I'd be worried if it was my horse.
		
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Sad thing is when horse won't put up with it anymore... It will become someone else's problem.

Should have been titled "how to ruin a good horse". 

To think that "everyone laughs" and knows "it's just boo" is terribly saddening.

I am sure this horse gets the best attention... If only some of it could be paid towards its methods of training.


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## Alaadin (2 March 2013)

good god some of you people really are pathetic!


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## TrasaM (2 March 2013)

Persephone said:



			Ok, I have tried, watched it several times. I don't see a happy horse.

I don't find it funny, I'd be worried if it was my horse.
		
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^^^ agree. Horse cant drop it's head because rein is too tight. Neck arch looks wrong ( over bent) rather than being a nice evenly curved line.


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## Persephone (2 March 2013)

Alaadin said:



 good god some of you people really are pathetic!
		
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Would you care to quantify your statement?


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## Moomin1 (2 March 2013)

Ibblebibble said:



			my first thoughts were that the horse looked blocked in front when being asked to go forwards so he's bucking in protest rather than it being high spirits, as someone else has said it's always just after you've 'clicked' him on. Try walking fast with your arms clamped to your sides, it's how i showed my daughter how hard you make it for the horse when you block the front end

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This is exactly what I thought straight away.

I don't see a 'naughty' horse or one in high spirits.  I see a horse who is protesting through restriction and possibly discomfort.


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## *hic* (2 March 2013)

I thought the pessoa is inappropriately fitted on a horse that isn't tracking up, is tight throughout and unhappy.

OP I note that you have your "professional" log in and your private log in. As you are offering lungeing as a service on your professional webpage I'd think very carefully about having videos such as this linked so closely to you, perhaps use your private log in. I for one would certainly NOT wish you to lunge any horse of mine if this is an accurate demonstration of your capabilities.

For those who don't know how a horse in a pessoa should be working this link may be enlightening. Note the position of the head in relation to the vertical.


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## tallyho! (2 March 2013)

Pardon? She's a professional?

Goodness me.


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## Roasted Chestnuts (2 March 2013)

Wow this thread has turned rather bitchy hasnt it. We all have opinions on stuff but really is there a need to be nasty, and Im noting some of the names are people whom Ive had great help and advice from in the past 

Why not maybe suggest things to the op in regards to the adjustment of the pessoa. Instead of attacking how the horse looks? I use one and my horse has the odd buck the first time he canters in it, just because he actually has to work in it, he will have the odd buck under saddle in canter if he feels he shouldnt be working


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## Mongoose11 (2 March 2013)

I clicked on this video just minutes after it was published on here and closed the thread and walked away because I didn't want to be the one moaning or having a go at someone AGAIN. Glad others have said what I thought. I wouldn't find it funny if my girl was doing that on the lunge, this seems obvious to me that this isn't high jinx at all, nothing about his face or general manner suggests that he is spirited during this bucking, it suggests that the Pessoa isn't being used properly and that the horse is unhappy.....

OP, raise the back piece, loosen the front, get a physio to check his back end perhaps? 

ETA
So the equestrian professional is the owner of 'Silvershoes' the mare that died recently.


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## Moomin1 (2 March 2013)

tallyho! said:



			Pardon? She's a professional?

Goodness me.
		
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What worries me more is said 'professional' removed an emaciated horse of hers from a livery yard, moved it down the road, and left it until the next morning to call the vet, when it was pts.


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## showpony (2 March 2013)

Im sorry, Im no expert BUT IMO - horse does not look happy, ears are back the Pessoa is way too tight restricting movement.... If he had Bucked just once at the start it may have been mildly amusing but EVERY time he broke into canter it happened...


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## Gingerwitch (2 March 2013)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkwFjlUrRp8&list=UUIM5TskOpPNSHEWGJDgmZSA

Check some of her other videos out....... 39 seconds

love the title of this one


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## Mongoose11 (2 March 2013)

Professional suicide in one accidental log in 

OP, you might want to attempt to get this thread removed.


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## Gingerwitch (2 March 2013)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWniDpxaqBg&list=UUIM5TskOpPNSHEWGJDgmZSA

watch the horses reaction in the first few frames..... then watch toward the end when the poor horse obvioulsy cannot cope anymore...... 2.54 tells a very good story


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## Gingerwitch (2 March 2013)

Billie1007 said:



			Professional suicide in one accidental log in 

OP, you might want to attempt to get this thread removed.
		
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well i hope it stays.... folk sending horses to this place need to know what they are letting themselves in for - and I for one do not like the thoughts !


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## zigzag (2 March 2013)

Oh dear god...  Really can't stand people who don't know how to use spurs correctly


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## zigzag (2 March 2013)

Moomin1 said:



			What worries me more is said 'professional' removed an emaciated horse of hers from a livery yard, moved it down the road, and left it until the next morning to call the vet, when it was pts.  

Click to expand...

This....


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## Gingerwitch (2 March 2013)

oh and yep you can pay £35 for her to do this to your horse too.....


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## Moomin1 (2 March 2013)

Gingerwitch said:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWniDpxaqBg&list=UUIM5TskOpPNSHEWGJDgmZSA

watch the horses reaction in the first few frames..... then watch toward the end when the poor horse obvioulsy cannot cope anymore...... 2.54 tells a very good story
		
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Mm there's some spectacular sawing on the bit in that vid.


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## Gingerwitch (2 March 2013)

Moomin..... I  am appalled that folk like this can set themselves up with a fancy website, and tout for buisness..... gawd help us - I just wish I was a faceache person as I would be sending a warning message out there for anyone one that is thinking of livery with this pair of cowboys - she is far too brutal for my stomach


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## zigzag (2 March 2013)

Looking at the website, I now know why the two other horses were left in Wales


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## Gingerwitch (2 March 2013)

zigzag said:



			Looking at the website, I now know why the two other horses were left in Wales
		
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Why ????


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## zigzag (2 March 2013)

Gingerwitch said:



			Why ????
		
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No room for them? 11 boxes , two with there horses in, 3 that they are selling, only leaves room for 6 liveries, not going to make money if they filling up yard with their own horses


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## TrasaM (2 March 2013)

Well she sounded quite happy in her OP and the video she posted so it seems she's got over the death of the mare.


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## Gingerwitch (2 March 2013)

zigzag said:



			No room for them? 11 boxes , two with there horses in, 3 that they are selling, only leaves room for 6 liveries, not going to make money if they filling up yard with their own horses
		
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True.... but you would have thought that with all the money they are spending and that shiney horse box, they would have looked after such a good servant

She is 23 he is 21.... between them they have 30 years experiance..... yearh right !


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## eatmyshorts (2 March 2013)

Slander, anyone?


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## zigzag (2 March 2013)

Gingerwitch said:



			True.... but you would have thought that with all the money they are spending and that shiney horse box, they would have looked after such a good servant
		
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You would  have thought so, I did feel sorry for her losing her mare (even though I thought she should have done more) but now seeing the youtube videos my opinion has changed, and just feel for the poor mare


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## charlie76 (2 March 2013)

There is nothing wrong with the fit of the Pessoa, it is on correctly. The horse is doing what many horses do when they feel the pressure of then bit that comes under the tail touch them. He won't be the first or the last to react like that to the Pessoa. 
I do agree that the horse isn't tracking up but perhaps the person lunging simply wasn't sending him forward enough. 
OP. if you have the side bits of the Pessoa through the middle ring on the sides of the horse rather than through one of the top rings the action on the mouth isn't so tight , he might then be softer over his back and track up a little more .


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## tallyho! (3 March 2013)

Black Beastie said:



			Wow this thread has turned rather bitchy hasnt it. We all have opinions on stuff but really is there a need to be nasty, and Im noting some of the names are people whom Ive had great help and advice from in the past 

Why not maybe suggest things to the op in regards to the adjustment of the pessoa. Instead of attacking how the horse looks? I use one and my horse has the odd buck the first time he canters in it, just because he actually has to work in it, he will have the odd buck under saddle in canter if he feels he shouldnt be working 

Click to expand...

Bitchy or not BB, And maybe I have been but I could not just watch that video and walk away. Even before the horse bucked, I could already see that the Pessoa was incorrectly fitted, the horse was severely restricted and I just had to speak my mind.

Especially when the title invites one to have a laugh at the expense of this horse. 

Terrible embarrassment. It's a beautiful horse that will not stay beautiful for very long.


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## tallyho! (3 March 2013)

charlie76 said:



			There is nothing wrong with the fit of the Pessoa, it is on correctly. The horse is doing what many horses do when they feel the pressure of then bit that comes under the tail touch them. He won't be the first or the last to react like that to the Pessoa. 
I do agree that the horse isn't tracking up but perhaps the person lunging simply wasn't sending him forward enough. 
OP. if you have the side bits of the Pessoa through the middle ring on the sides of the horse rather than through one of the top rings the action on the mouth isn't so tight , he might then be softer over his back and track up a little more .
		
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Then I sincerely hope you do not use one if you think that Pessoa is on correctly! The Pessoa is designed to yield to stretching and even encourage it at all levels. All this horse can do is move its head up and down in an arch.

That is not how the pulley system is meant to work. 

How could that frame possibly move forward? The horse is trying very hard actually to move forward but can't... Because its put in a false outline that does not allow the shoulder to move hardly at all!!

When asked to move forward more, it can only buck as all power from back end is completely lost.

If you can't see that then, you need to go back and have another look at what the mechanics of the pulley system is doing to restrict every stride that horse is trying to make.

This is when gadgets are best left alone.


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## little_critter (3 March 2013)

I've never used a Pessoa and don't know how to fit one but even I can see I would want that horse stretching and swinging more (bless him he tries to stretch but can't because of the Pessoa). He can't track up and move forward because he's hitting a brick wall. 
Although I don't agree with turning private detective and posting OPs other videos on here, nor do I feel comfortable with the death of her mare being dredged up again. 
OP maybe try slackening the Pessoa as suggested and see if he improves. If he also does it under saddle could you also be restricting him with your hands?


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## Farma (3 March 2013)

I just watched the lunge video and saw some of the first few comments with shock, i am so glad that people do speak their mind and say what they see as i personally felt really sorry for that horse! Good for tally ho et al for speaking up!


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## weebarney (3 March 2013)

little_critter said:



			I've never used a Pessoa and don't know how to fit one but even I can see I would want that horse stretching and swinging more (bless him he tries to stretch but can't because of the Pessoa). He can't track up and move forward because he's hitting a brick wall. 
Although I don't agree with turning private detective and posting OPs other videos on here, nor do I feel comfortable with the death of her mare being dredged up again. 
OP maybe try slackening the Pessoa as suggested and see if he improves. If he also does it under saddle could you also be restricting him with your hands?
		
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agree with this . I dont think attacking her or saying she isnt bothered about the death of the horse is going to encourage her to rethink how she is using this gadget. I'd personally bin the bloomin pessoa.


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## Norfolk Pie (3 March 2013)

No interest in posting anything bitchy, but will comment on the video.

OP I'm afraid your horse is not happy on that Pessoa. It isn't a spook that sends him into a buck, he did it twice before (I think on being asked to go more forward) I'd agree its restrictive, but I've actually gone off using this sort of training aid (it was the only thing I did use) as I've seen a few horses develop hind limb problems when being worked in them, Possibly as a result of existing low grade injury already present, or due to incorrect use (chicken or egg situ really) .  Either way I'd be concerned your lovely horse is headed that way.

Off the original topic, but as others have commented re being a professional. I actually think its very difficult, because you don't realise how little you know until later in life (I think OP said she was 23?) 
I left school at 16, and worked part time for an eventer whilst also picking up other work, and doing my BHS exams at local college. 
I got loads of work! By the time I was 18 I was running my own yard, competing and selling horses for people, teaching etc. I'm sure I made loads of mistakes! I look back  now and cringe at some of the things I thought were right.  I never did use gadgets, but they were less "fashionable" at that time, and for some reason I was always quite anti and quite horse observant. 

My point is we can all sit here and see, quite clearly, there is a problem with this being professional service. Im sure when I was 16, plenty of people thought the same of me. I'm sure there's many people on here who receive these horses at the other end of the scale, when a physical or behavioural problem is ingrained.  

But it's very normal, and there is no regulation, our industry is so unprofessional, something I lament frequently.
There's also very little opportunity for training, to be honest my BHS exams didn't teach me good or bad production of horses. 
And no one came up to me and said " woah, hang on a minute. No ones really taught you how to do this have they - what are you actually trying to achieve with this horse, cos at the minute, you're setting it up to fail" 
So I feel a bit sorry for the OP, because I doubt she is meaning any harm, she just doesn't know :/ and as a "pro" all your clients think you're great, so it doesn't often occur to you that what you've been taught (perhaps either incorrectly, or just without enough depth for differign situations) actually needs a great big review! 
I realised i didnt know enough (i still dont!) and set about researching everything i could - i looked outside the box and questioned everything.
In doing so, I realised most people do not work the horse with its best interests at heart, and that put me on a very different (non bunny hugging!) route, with some very good professionals in different areas,  but lost me many clients who wanted quick fixes (though many returned when they realised it wasn't helpful long term.....)


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## Asha (3 March 2013)

Those of you bringing the death of her horse into this, well shame on you.

OP - i am no professional, but from looking at the video he does look as though hes trying to stretch down, and then when he cant, he bucks out in frustration. I would suggest you get someone experienced in to help you.


As for having your own business, well good on you. You seem to have fab facilities. Although, i think some people on here may well have a point about your level of expertise on the video, and charging for such services. But no harm whatsoever in my opinion in charging for liveries.

But dont be put off. I know you havent come on here asking for advice about your business, but you do seem to have opened a can of worms. 

Good luck with the livery yard.


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## xspiralx (3 March 2013)

I really think this thread has turned into a rather ugly witch hunt.

Regardless of one's opinion of the original video, and whether it represents good horsemanship or not, I do not think the OP has warranted having every single youtube video she has ever posted hunted out and ripped to shreds.

This isn't an example of horrific abuse by a long stretch of the imagination - I think some perspective is needed here!


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## AengusOg (3 March 2013)

Judging from some of the comments in the first few pages of this thread, it is not only the OP who doesn't know how to work a horse in a pessoa.

It is not a funny video to watch; it is actually quite sad to see a horse worked like this, Unfortunately it is not unusual.

What a lot of people tend to miss, or ignore, is that horses have to be able to stretch their frame, lower their head, lift their back, and move forward unrestricted, before they can step under themselves and track up. If the trainer allows that to happen, by fitting the pessoa according to the horse's level of fitness and, more importantly, his ability to carry himself with balance and impulsion, then he will naturally round himself and work well.

Fitting a pessoa incorrectly, ie, too tightly, will cause the horse to hollow his back, which in turn shortens his fore action, prevents him from stepping under himself, and makes impulsion impossible. This all comes from restricting his ability to extend his neck and head forward and down.

If his is sent on by a trainer who doesn't understand all this, and who regards him as an idiot for his responses to his discomfort from the restrictions on him, his only recourse is to resist, which is what the horse in the video is doing.


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## Shysmum (3 March 2013)

The video is very uncomfortable to watch. It's the first time I've seen a pessoa being used, and I have to say I hate the way it is restricting him in the front, and then banging on his back end. I presume it isn't fitted right, but I don't know about them.  He is constantly looking at the exit and wanting to "escape". THAT is when he throws in the bucks.  

Not good, OP.


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## Mearas (3 March 2013)

tallyho! said:



			My full opinion on the matter is that the horse is very tight in its neck, poll and sacroiliac joint. 

The is no tracking up, the horse is not supple nor is it through in its body. The Pessoa is far too tight in front and there is no stretching of the neck. If you think lowering the head is stretching then, perhaps think again.

It does not swing it's shoulders forward as it cannot due to the restrictive action of the Pessoa. I think it's probably the worst I have ever seen a Pessoa being used. It's is basically compressing the horse into itself... Not allowing any impulsion from the back at all. A very restrictive picture all in all. 

And if that is how this horse supposedly is all of the time, then, it's even sadder. The horse may have a strong back now, but that will not last if it is not allowed to stretch and flex. He is very on the forehand but looks like it is trying to elevate the front end and can't. That's why the back end can bounce up and down like that as most of the horses weight is in front.
		
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I am sorry RCP Equestrian I have to agree with Tally Ho and the others who say this is not a happy horse. I am in no doubt that you love your horse but I do not understand why it is neccessary to use these gadgets and not spend time training correctly. Please have a look at this video and the case study of this horse.
http://dianefollowell.vpweb.co.uk/TRAINING-RIDERS.html


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## Moomin1 (3 March 2013)

Well if 'bitching' means that a horse may be spared the type of treatment seen in the video then so be it!  And yes, I do think its concerning that somebody calls themselves professional yet they leave a dying horse overnight before getting a vet


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## PoppyAnderson (3 March 2013)

Shysmum said:



			The video is very uncomfortable to watch. It's the first time I've seen a pessoa being used, and I have to say I hate the way it is restricting him in the front, and then banging on his back end. I presume it isn't fitted right, but I don't know about them.  He is constantly looking at the exit and wanting to "escape". THAT is when he throws in the bucks.  

Not good, OP.
		
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Whilst this isn't the best pic in the world, it gives an indication of a Pessoa being used a little better. She will typically stretch down and round even further than the pic shows.


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## Delicious_D (3 March 2013)

TBH i would want someone to look at that horses back, that isnt high spirits 

Not imho anyway. Sorry.


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## Goodshipblossom (3 March 2013)

What does this horse have to do before people realise he's unhappy and uncomfortable? Turn around and speak English? His ears are back, he's bucking out at the pessoa and his head looks in an uncomfortable position. Seriously how can he communicate any more obviously that he's not happy!


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## Delicious_D (3 March 2013)

deleted as not getting involved


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## Gingerwitch (3 March 2013)

Goodshipblossom said:



			What does this horse have to do before people realise he's unhappy and uncomfortable? Turn around and speak English? His ears are back, he's bucking out at the pessoa and his head looks in an uncomfortable position. Seriously how can he communicate any more obviously that he's not happy!
		
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Deleted : 

Agree no point getting involved anymore


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## charlie76 (3 March 2013)

Poppyanderson, your pessoa is fitted on a lower ring than the op which is what I suggested before I was jumped on! The pessoa is fitted correctly but on this horse having it on the higher ring is restricting the hind leg and making him tight through the back.again what I stated originally.


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## googol (3 March 2013)

This thread makes me appreciate my equiami! It's alot easier to fit and there's no fixed points. Wud b interested to see this horse in one


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## ELFSBELLS (3 March 2013)

Although I did'nt like watching the video, the horse looks so uncomfortable, and is being very restricted, so his back end is going up to tell you, knowhere else for him to go imo, I would'nt stoop so low to bring the ops deceased horse into the equation, those that have, shame on you !! And op, I would seriosly think about doing some stretching and low work with him !


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## mandwhy (3 March 2013)

little_critter said:



			I've never used a Pessoa and don't know how to fit one but even I can see I would want that horse stretching and swinging more (bless him he tries to stretch but can't because of the Pessoa). He can't track up and move forward because he's hitting a brick wall. 
Although I don't agree with turning private detective and posting OPs other videos on here, nor do I feel comfortable with the death of her mare being dredged up again.
		
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Agree! I don't like the pessoa from what I've seen, but I think this horse would produce some nice work for the OP when they aren't using it. 

Can't stand the private detective work either!


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## charlie76 (3 March 2013)

I also agree with the disgraceful tone of many posters on this thread.  Have you seriously not got better things to do than travel the web for videos.  
Bringing the death of the horse into it is disgusting.  
So she put the pessoa on too tight. So what, hardly rspca abuse !. None of her horses look beaten or under fed.  Honestly.


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## Aarrghimpossiblepony (3 March 2013)

mandwhy said:



			Agree! I don't like the pessoa from what I've seen, but I think this horse would produce some nice work for the OP when they aren't using it. 

*Can't stand the private detective work either*!
		
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The linked video went on automatically to show other videos of the horse. Not much detective work needed.

It's pretty basic stuff isn't it that you don't hang on to the horses mouth to keep your own balance riding or over jumps?

The horses head is so high and "tight" because from what I watched he's trying to protect his mouth.


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## Amaranta (3 March 2013)

charlie76 said:



			Poppyanderson, your pessoa is fitted on a lower ring than the op which is what I suggested before I was jumped on! The pessoa is fitted correctly but on this horse having it on the higher ring is restricting the hind leg and making him tight through the back.again what I stated originally.
		
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Agree, thats the beauty of the Pessoa, I also agree that in this instance it is too tight, so the horse is being blocked, but Rolkur it most certainly is not.

Am a little gobsmacked at this thread tbh, yes the horse is uncomfortable but does the OP really deserve all this vitriol?


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## Goodshipblossom (3 March 2013)

Wigwam_bam said:



			Lets all upload videos of all of you lot riding. 

And we can nitpick at that all day... Wouldn't like that would you. 

Click to expand...

It's hardly nitpicking- pointing out that the horse is bucking because he's uncomfortable rather than er "high jinks".


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## Mongoose11 (3 March 2013)

You're right - I wouldn't like that but then I don't claim to be a professional horsewoman capable of schooling other people's horses. Get some perspective and context and people's comments might start to make a bit more sense. 

I don't think anyone has stepped way over the line here. People have seen some videos and some people have said that they don't like the standard of riding (I haven't if you care to look back so nothing in it for me).


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## weebarney (3 March 2013)

Billie1007 said:



			You're right - I wouldn't like that but then I don't claim to be a professional horsewoman capable of schooling other people's horses. Get some perspective and context and people's comments might start to make a bit more sense. 

I don't think anyone has stepped way over the line here. People have seen some videos and some people have said that they don't like the standard of riding (I haven't if you care to look back so nothing in it for me).
		
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think the people bringing up the death of her horse and shiny lorries are bellow the belt.


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## Goodshipblossom (3 March 2013)

Wigwam_bam said:



			Clearly you haven't read every comment..
		
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I probably have but just formed a different opinion.

Do you think the trainer has the right interpretation of why her horse was bucking?


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## Goodshipblossom (3 March 2013)

Wigwam_bam said:



			I don't know the horse, so i couldn't possibly say, and i can't _make a interpretation_ from a minute long video of a horse on a lunge.  

I feel the way people are scrutinising (Sp?) her other videos, bringing up the death of her mare and generally posting from their high-horses (No pun intended  ) is just cruel, and i would like to see what would happen if it was them being treated the same way if they posted a video of their horse/themselves riding.
		
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I guess this comes back to my earlier comment that I don't know what the horse has to do to communicate that it's unhappy. But we can agree to disagree.


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## Girlracer (3 March 2013)

My god some of you are pathetic. 

I agree with the fact the original video is far from amusing, and it's disappointing that a professional believes this is correct. 

However that is absolutely no reason for the witch hunt and subsequent abuse this women has received. I presume most of us are adults, and I doubt most of you'd behave like this to her face so please stop hiding behind an Internet persona so you can take out your frustrations on someone else you don't know.


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## Shysmum (3 March 2013)

It is sad that so much of this generated energy can't be re-directed to help horses in the UK who REALLY need it. The welfare posts seem to get barely any replies.     Just a random thought.


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## Girlracer (3 March 2013)

Totally agree shysmum and actually forgot to put that in my post.


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## Shysmum (3 March 2013)

It just makes me so sad. The post about the ponies found in Wales  barely caused a trickle of interest, the rescue centers are over flowing, once loved ponies are being to sent to god knows where, to be killed god knows how - and end up in Tesco.. Breeding is out of control, passporting


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## zigzag (3 March 2013)

Shysmum said:



			It just makes me so sad. The post about the ponies found in Wales  barely caused a trickle of interest, the rescue centers are over flowing, once loved ponies are being to sent to god knows where, to be killed god knows how - and end up in Tesco.. Breeding is out of control, passporting  ...I just do not get HHO's sometimes 

Click to expand...

Commenting on someones post doesn't mean you don't care about the Redwings situation. I'm not one to post to say "I've donated" even when I have. I would love to adopt a couple from Redwings, sadly I live in the wrong area.


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## Shysmum (3 March 2013)

I'm sorry, didn't mean it to come across like that !  It's just that it seems the posts that generate the most interest are the ones that turn like this one has.


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## Mongoose11 (3 March 2013)

What the heck have various horse charities got to do with THIS thread? I do not understand these ridiculous comparisons. 

Yes of course because I think that this is an odd 'giggle' by a professional horsewoman that can't see her horse is complaining about something I OBVIOUSLY don't care about neglected horses elsewhere?!?

I am not suggesting this horse is neglected, near death, call the RSPCA. I am suggesting that this very young pro may need to rethink her practices before posting videos that are linked to her business. Sensible advice surely?


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## Norfolk Pie (3 March 2013)

Shysmum said:



			It just makes me so sad. The post about the ponies found in Wales  barely caused a trickle of interest, the rescue centers are over flowing, once loved ponies are being to sent to god knows where, to be killed god knows how - and end up in Tesco.. Breeding is out of control, passporting  ...I just do not get HHO's sometimes 

Click to expand...

I totally agree. I think people often do get more involved when the "perpetrator" is able to be shot at directly.  But just to throw a curve ball in here (and this is not about the OP as an individual, but about this situation in general) I actually DO consider it "abuse" when horses that are (IMO) struggling to do what's asked of them are being misunderstood/ignored and christened silly or awkward.  And when the trainer is offering professional services, its understandable that people become more direct with their opinions.  
The thing is, I'm not sure you can view either case in isolation? There's a cycle -bad trainers damage more horses than they make good.  Damaged horses fall in to a downward spiral and make up a large percentage of that low end market - where the cruelty cases tend to exist.  So I speak out when I see this because a) I don't think any horses deserves to be ignored when uncomfortable and b) because I genuinely see situations like this becoming welfare cases -albeit 10 years later when the results of the poor training methods of today mean a horse has no use and is left as skin and bone in a field......


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## Delicious_D (3 March 2013)

Billie1007 said:



			What the heck have various horse charities got to do with THIS thread? I do not understand these ridiculous comparisons. 

Yes of course because I think that this is an odd 'giggle' by a professional horsewoman that can't see her horse is complaining about something I OBVIOUSLY don't care about neglected horses elsewhere?!?

I am not suggesting this horse is neglected, near death, call the RSPCA. I am suggesting that this very young pro may need to rethink her practices before posting videos that are linked to her business. Sensible advice surely?
		
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^^ this.


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## charlie76 (3 March 2013)

Sensible advice maybe but perhaps the way things are advised need addressing.  Instead of suggesting that the horse found the pessoa to tight, many,  not all,  decided to launch at attack on the op decision to use the equipment,  how it was used,  how unhappy her horse is. Then not content to leave it there they then drag up numerous irrelevant videos,  slag off the op as a rider,  be little her business,  and then to top it off add the death of her horse to the mix.
Advice is one thing.  Damn right nastiness is another


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## Spring Feather (3 March 2013)

Billie1007 said:



			What the heck have various horse charities got to do with THIS thread? I do not understand these ridiculous comparisons. 

Yes of course because I think that this is an odd 'giggle' by a professional horsewoman that can't see her horse is complaining about something I OBVIOUSLY don't care about neglected horses elsewhere?!?

I am not suggesting this horse is neglected, near death, call the RSPCA. I am suggesting that this very young pro may need to rethink her practices before posting videos that are linked to her business. Sensible advice surely?
		
Click to expand...

Spot on advice I'd say.  Those aren't videos I'd use to promote my business but OP is very young; she'll learn.


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## Shysmum (3 March 2013)

Norfolk Pie - good post.

All I am saying is that it would be great if posts regarding welfare were debated as hard as some other posts are, and generated as much energy and interest.  Just an observation, I am not championing charities (you may be be surprised on my views tbh), or saying we should just give money,  just the whole goddamn awful state of equine welfare in this country.


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## Goldenstar (3 March 2013)

Spring Feather said:



			Spot on advice I'd say.  Those aren't videos I'd use to promote my business but OP is very young; she'll learn.
		
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I am thinking the same ,spring feathers .
Shows very nicely why I hate pessoa type things.


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## weebarney (3 March 2013)

Shysmum said:



			Norfolk Pie - good post.

All I am saying is that it would be great if posts regarding welfare were debated as hard as some other posts are, and generated as much energy and interest.
		
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Is that not because there isnt a lot to debate when people post about animals near to death being rescued because everyone knows its terrible and feel for the poor animals? Whereas this sort of thing is going to attract people who feel very strongly that the girl is the work of the devil while others think she is just young and impressionable?


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## tallyho! (4 March 2013)

Perhaps this thread has gone off on a tangent.

An unpleasant one. My intention was always to point out the error I saw... especially after a title such as "Video of my horse lunging - have a giggle!". 

I found nothing to giggle about. It's definitely not a welfare case, no, but it was worth speaking up against the many who thought it WAS indeed FUNNY!

I have no interest in the history of posters, I was shocked to find out she was a professional. Perhaps, it was meant to be that she posted the video. Hopefully, if she is young as some of you have said, she will learn from this and rise up much better.

I'm afraid, as easy as it is to walk away from threads that are building a pedestal for the OP, sometimes, you feel a responsibility to say something if you see something is wrong. If it helps, then great.

As for welfare threads not getting enough response, what do you suggest people do about dying ponies who are miles away? I am sure many of us donate to equine charities and do our bit for horses and ponies where-ever we can. However, we have to accept that we cannot help every single rescue case. Even a reply such as "oh thats terrible" might help the publicity and thread count but what help is it in real life?

Also, it has nothing to do with this thread about a horse being lunged incorrectly. Whether or not the fans of the OP agree or not is also nothing to do with them. If a member of a forum decides to post a reply, that is what it is and members are free to discuss what they see/read.


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## Auslander (4 March 2013)

charlie76 said:



			I also agree with the disgraceful tone of many posters on this thread.  Have you seriously not got better things to do than travel the web for videos.  
Bringing the death of the horse into it is disgusting.  
So she put the pessoa on too tight. So what, hardly rspca abuse !. None of her horses look beaten or under fed.  Honestly.
		
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Was about to say the same. Absolutely disgusted by the posters who have brought up the subject of the mare she lost. Words completely fail me...

How about some of you climb down from the moral high ground, put yourself in her shoes, and think about how the OP must feel to read the things you have posted. Shame on the lot of you...


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## Rebels (4 March 2013)

Anything you say will be remembered and used against you on numerous occasions, with little relevance, for forever more... This is why I daren't post a video!


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## charlie76 (4 March 2013)

What I do find giggle worthy is the hypocrapsy of some posters on here!


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## Mongoose11 (4 March 2013)

charlie76 said:



			What I do find giggle worthy is the hypocrapsy of some posters on here!
		
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Please tell me that was an accidental blooper - it will make my day!


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## RCP Equestrian (4 March 2013)

Thank you for everyones comments, good and bad. I don't mind people posting their opinions on here, everyone is entitled to them, some people find it amusing, others not so which is fair enough!

From this video I agree he doesnt look relaxed, its the first 1:30 mins of him on the lunge, he does come out like a ticking time bomb and does take a while to relax in the arena as he is a spooky boy! He had already been on the walker to warm up for 5mins because I know this is his trick when lunging so don't want him to pull anything. 

Bringing other videos into it did make me giggle  please read all my descriptions though as all is explained in there.

Boo is good after his massage this weekend and....nothing was wrong with him  he is a weird old shape of a horse and never looks great when working as he has such a high head carriage! Hence his nickname of "the big grey goose"! 

But thank you for pointing out your concerns, just to let you all know I have took them on board but as I know my horse better than anyone, I always know what is right and what is wrong

So your mind can rest now


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## charlie76 (4 March 2013)

Billie1007 ,  it was my phone but to be honest I think it chose the right spelling!


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## ILuvCowparsely (4 March 2013)

I use a pessoa  every monday.

 My boy now can canter on the lunge in it no problem.  He is well balanced...


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## Bernster (4 March 2013)

RCP Equestrian said:



			Thank you for everyones comments, good and bad. I don't mind people posting their opinions on here, everyone is entitled to them, some people find it amusing, others not so which is fair enough!

From this video I agree he doesnt look relaxed, its the first 1:30 mins of him on the lunge, he does come out like a ticking time bomb and does take a while to relax in the arena as he is a spooky boy! He had already been on the walker to warm up for 5mins because I know this is his trick when lunging so don't want him to pull anything. 

Bringing other videos into it did make me giggle  please read all my descriptions though as all is explained in there.

Boo is good after his massage this weekend and....nothing was wrong with him  he is a weird old shape of a horse and never looks great when working as he has such a high head carriage! Hence his nickname of "the big grey goose"! 

But thank you for pointing out your concerns, just to let you all know I have took them on board but as I know my horse better than anyone, I always know what is right and what is wrong

So your mind can rest now 

Click to expand...

I haven't commented before because frankly I am not qualified to judge.  I did want to say I was impressed at how you've taken this.  I haven't followed the entire thread but I could see where it was going, and it's understandable that people might voice concerns about what they see, albeit it's just a snapshot.  (PS I wouldn't dismiss people out of hand either, as maybe some on here are pretty experienced, who knows.)  But that is always a danger in posting a vid which doesn't show the horse working or behaving perfectly.

I couldn't ever say that I always know what's right or wrong about my horse though, as I realise there are people way more qualified to assess that, including profressionally qualified people, although I'd probably go to them first for an opinion


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## Spring Feather (4 March 2013)

RCP Equestrian said:



			I know my horse better than anyone, I always know what is right and what is wrong
		
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That's fabulous!  Remember this time in your life fondly because it won't last long


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## JFTDWS (4 March 2013)

By bringing all the other stuff into it, I think it's rather diluted the original message here   Which is a shame as (imo) it's a good one.  This thread reminds me why I suffer from a little known psychological condition called "Pessoa rage" which surfaces every time I see one used to force a horse into an uncomfortable outline.



tallyho! said:



			Sorry but that Pessoa is far too tight in front. Bordering on rollkur if you ask me.

I see one unhappy horse. Nothing silly about it but the owner.
		
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Unfortunately, being young the OP is of the opinion that she knows best and the personal insults are just supporting the idea of this as a personal attack on her.  That's not helpful to anybody, least of all the horse in the OP.


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## RCP Equestrian (4 March 2013)

Bernster said:



			I haven't commented before because frankly I am not qualified to judge.  I did want to say I was impressed at how you've taken this.  I haven't followed the entire thread but I could see where it was going, and it's understandable that people might voice concerns about what they see, albeit it's just a snapshot.  (PS I wouldn't dismiss people out of hand either, as maybe some on here are pretty experienced, who knows.)  But that is always a danger in posting a vid which doesn't show the horse working or behaving perfectly.

I couldn't ever say that I always know what's right or wrong about my horse though, as I realise there are people way more qualified to assess that, including profressionally qualified people, although I'd probably go to them first for an opinion 

Click to expand...

Thanks for that 

Opinions are opinions, everyone has them and they are all different! I have mine and others have theirs, some people voice theirs, some don't!

Its part and parcel of being involved in a forum so I was expecting it, and if you can't take it don't give it!  but I am professional and I can take it, that's how you get better. 

But nasty comments and bringing other things in that has nothing to do with anything I just ignore because at the end of the day I would be as bad as them if I were to retaliate!

Everyone is still learning and no one is perfect....apart from Boo


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## RCP Equestrian (4 March 2013)

JFTD said:



			By bringing all the other stuff into it, I think it's rather diluted the original message here   Which is a shame as (imo) it's a good one.  This thread reminds me why I suffer from a little known psychological condition called "Pessoa rage" which surfaces every time I see one used to force a horse into an uncomfortable outline.




Unfortunately, being young the OP is of the opinion that she knows best and the personal insults are just supporting the idea of this as a personal attack on her.  That's not helpful to anybody, least of all the horse in the OP.
		
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I don't know best and have actually taken on board it possibly might be too tight, he's always worked in it on this length before and relaxes into it very well (after the freshness has gone!) but like I have said nest time, I will loosen it and see how he goes, no harm in trying


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## JFTDWS (4 March 2013)

RCP Equestrian said:



			I don't know best and have actually taken on board it possibly might be too tight, he's always worked in it on this length before and relaxes into it very well (after the freshness has gone!) but like I have said nest time, I will loosen it and see how he goes, no harm in trying 

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Fair play for that then.  I'm not a big fan of pessoas so personally would probably burn it in a funeral pyre-based ceremony rather than loosen it   But if you loosen it so he can move forwards and stretch down in a more relaxed frame, I hope you will see a difference


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## ILuvCowparsely (4 March 2013)

This does not show him with it fully on this was just the warm up I have it a lot longer than the OP has on her video. Its the length his mum had it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqNw-iafSWM

 I just want a low  straight neck outline not head in the chest type.

I want his neck parallel to his withers.   I do not like to see horses with heads forced in.  Like draw reins  do   , very very rarely I use draw reins  if he is in a *giraffe mood*  that is prob once or twice a year max.


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## Tinypony (4 March 2013)

Op, I think everything has been said that needs to on this thread about your video... but... your website needs a bloomin' good proof read! ;-)


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## LaurenBay (4 March 2013)

Well done for raising above the HHO witch hunt! Loosen it and give it a go


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## RCP Equestrian (4 March 2013)

JFTD said:



			Fair play for that then.  I'm not a big fan of pessoas so personally would probably burn it in a funeral pyre-based ceremony rather than loosen it   But if you loosen it so he can move forwards and stretch down in a more relaxed frame, I hope you will see a difference 

Click to expand...

Haha I'll be joining in that ceremony after this!  

Thanks, will try it, I haven't been using it that long to be honest so I'm open to CC  

Now he's "fixed" I will just be riding anyway....I prefer it tbh!


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## RCP Equestrian (4 March 2013)

Tinypony said:



			Op, I think everything has been said that needs to on this thread about your video... but... your website needs a bloomin' good proof read! ;-)
		
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Hahaha! Can you do it for me 

Must need a fresh set of eyes as I know i t off by heart!! Obviously oblivious to the errors....woopsies!


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## RCP Equestrian (4 March 2013)

LaurenBay said:



			Well done for raising above the HHO witch hunt! Loosen it and give it a go 

Click to expand...

Thanks! I'm not a bad person....I promise, but trying to convince this lot is pretty tiring!! 

Will do, but just said to someone else, now he's had the all clear I just ride him anyway, I prefer it!


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## JFTDWS (4 March 2013)

RCP Equestrian said:



			Now he's "fixed" I will just be riding anyway....I prefer it tbh! 

Click to expand...


Lunging makes me dizzy   I'd rather ride any day!


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## RCP Equestrian (4 March 2013)

JFTD said:



			Lunging makes me dizzy   I'd rather ride any day!
		
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Same! You don't notice it much in this vid, but before one of the times he goes nuts is actually because I tripped over my own foot and fell over  he got a fright the tool! LOL


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## Luci07 (4 March 2013)

I am a fan and do use the pessoa but have to say it must surely get the award for the most awful, unhelpful instructions ever. I am not unintelligent (well I like to think so) but I did have to pay for a lesson on how to put it on properly and how to use it. I do prefer working it fairly loosely but I have very specific goals when using mine and I also have a young horse.


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## JFTDWS (4 March 2013)

hehe I've been there *lunge lunge lunge ARGH, trip over own feet, faceplant into floor* fail   It's safer not to bother!


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## Tinypony (4 March 2013)

RCP Equestrian said:



			Hahaha! Can you do it for me 

Must need a fresh set of eyes as I know i t off by heart!! Obviously oblivious to the errors....woopsies!
		
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That's something I charge for.  One reason I spend so much time in front of a computer.  Problem is, I find myself getting obsessive about correcting other people's prose.  LMAO!


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## RCP Equestrian (4 March 2013)

JFTD said:



			hehe I've been there *lunge lunge lunge ARGH, trip over own feet, faceplant into floor* fail   It's safer not to bother!
		
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Exactly what I did! And my horse found it hilarious


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## RCP Equestrian (4 March 2013)

Tinypony said:



			That's something I charge for.  One reason I spend so much time in front of a computer.  Problem is, I find myself getting obsessive about correcting other people's prose.  LMAO!
		
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Darn it  I will take some time to read through...will get my thinking cap on! I tend to just look at the pictures


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## Tinypony (4 March 2013)

pm'd you.  (Not to advertise - just to make that clear for the forum police - I don't need any more work!).


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## cambrica (4 March 2013)

Personally I too would burn the Pessoa, lunge and long-rein for schooling only. For any work to build muscle / top line hacking, hill work and transitions. 
Lunging for fitness, IMO, causes more harm than good in the long run. You may get your results quicker but learn to enjoy the horse you have today rather than fixed on what you want him to become. 
Beautiful horse though!


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## Flakey123 (4 March 2013)

I actually admire you for having the guts to reply back to people on this thread. Fair enough if people want to have an opinion on your video but to try and completely rip you apart, business and all, is shocking!

 I'm sure if we all uploaded videos of ourselves lunging and/or riding there would be plenty of criticisms for us all. I dread to think what you'd all have to say about me! 

  Just try be a bit nicer to each other we're all into the same thing and despite mistakes being made sometimes, I think most of us love our horses. 
If some of the posters spoke to people's faces they way they do on here, I can safely say they wouldn't have many friends left!

Good for you OP to have your own business up and running, good luck with it! It's great to see someone young with some get up and go! I hope it's a success for you x


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## LollyDolly (4 March 2013)

Personally OP you couldn't have handled that better, you rose above it and still maintained your cheeriness which was nice to read! 

Also you are going to try what some people have suggested (not me, I don't use pessoas because you need a bloody degree in engineering to put them on so I won't comment!!) so people have no need to complain. 

As for the people who mentioned the loss of her horse, shame on you. I fail to see how that factors in at all other than to rub salt in the OP's wounds.


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## tallyho! (4 March 2013)

Actually, lunging, in it's free form i.e. just from the nose is an art form and really quite enjoyable 

You can change a horse's body if you know what you are doing. It is hard though and gadgets and techniques exist to help achieve it but they tend to isolate specific muscle groups rather than work the body in harmony.

It can improve straightness, supple and strengthen in a relatively short time. It's learning the mechanics, the forces and the physics that take up a lot of learning. All this works best lunging from the very fore of the horse and not from the bit - there are very specific reasons for this! Not any that I will go into for now.

It's one of my passions actually and I hear so many people using it just to "let off steam" and I think, what a shame, it's a brilliant aid and lays the foundations for many things. 

It's one of my favourite 'in-hand' lessons for a horse.... the dizzyness does cease after a short time!


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## ellie11987 (4 March 2013)

OP I am very very impressed with how you responded to this thread. The way you handled it was very refreshing!


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## misterjinglejay (5 March 2013)

I have read all these posts (day off today lol), and I, too, thought the horse was uncomfortable and tight, but well done OP for taking it all on board and responding so well. It makes a refreshing change.


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## RCP Equestrian (5 March 2013)

Aww thank you all for your lovely comments  

Had a "proud of myself" moment reading them  but I do think its a waste of time just throwing a boomerang of remarks back and forth, gets no one anywhere!

And yes, me and my partner are only young so its hard to get taken seriously when setting up a business, but its going so well and we just want to go all the way!  (not advertising HH )

Pessoa has now been destroyed though....never again after this!!!  I'll post a lovely video of the Boo beast behaving next time, so not sure when that will be!


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## FionaM12 (5 March 2013)

I've been following this thread but didn't feel qualified to comment.

I would like to say though, OP, that your reaction is _not_ the recognised correct HHO one. 

No flouncing off, no telling us you're _never_ coming back, swearing and exitting pram, chucking toys on way? 






Poor show I call it.


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## RCP Equestrian (5 March 2013)

FionaM12 said:



			I've been following this thread but didn't feel qualified to comment.

I would like to say though, OP, that your reaction is _not_ the recognised correct HHO one. 

No flouncing off, no telling us you're _never_ coming back, swearing and exitting pram, chucking toys on way? 






Poor show I call it. 

Click to expand...

Sorry!! I'm quite a disappointment


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## FionaM12 (5 March 2013)

RCP Equestrian said:



			Sorry!! I'm quite a disappointment 

Click to expand...

I can't hear you, I'm busy flouncing out.....


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## RCP Equestrian (5 March 2013)

FionaM12 said:



			I can't hear you, I'm busy flouncing out.....
		
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*Throws toys out pram to get attention*


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## Girlracer (5 March 2013)

RCP Equestrian said:



			Aww thank you all for your lovely comments  

Had a "proud of myself" moment reading them  but I do think its a waste of time just throwing a boomerang of remarks back and forth, gets no one anywhere!

And yes, me and my partner are only young so its hard to get taken seriously when setting up a business, but its going so well and we just want to go all the way!  (not advertising HH )

Pessoa has now been destroyed though....never again after this!!!  I'll post a lovely video of the Boo beast behaving next time, so not sure when that will be! 

Click to expand...

I think you've handled yourself far better than most on this thread


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## RCP Equestrian (5 March 2013)

Girlracer said:



			I think you've handled yourself far better than most on this thread 

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Thank you! I shall keep it up!


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## lamlyn2012 (5 March 2013)

When the horse is bucking and messing about shouldn't it be told not to, otherwise isn't OP encouraging incorrect behaviour? I don't want to get in to an argument but bucking is a vice and imo should be discouraged, even on the lunge. An initial "fling" may be acceptable but this goes beyond that.


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## tallyho! (5 March 2013)

Girlracer said:



			I think you've handled yourself far better than most on this thread 

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Absolutely!


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## Whoopit (5 March 2013)

I saw what started him off!!

Did you miss that spooky patch of fresh air just lurking near the arena rail?!!   

Wish mine lunged at all, never as nicely as that - i'd take the bucking too!!


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## RCP Equestrian (5 March 2013)

Whoopit said:



			I saw what started him off!!

Did you miss that spooky patch of fresh air just lurking near the arena rail?!!   

Wish mine lunged at all, never as nicely as that - i'd take the bucking too!!
		
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Haha! I missed it tbh! How silly of me....I should know better that everything including the fresh air is out to kill him!  but thats his general outlook on life, everything is out to get him....should take some life skills from him really


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## AengusOg (5 March 2013)

lamlyn2012 said:



			When the horse is bucking and messing about shouldn't it be told not to, otherwise isn't OP encouraging incorrect behaviour? I don't want to get in to an argument but bucking is a vice and imo should be discouraged, even on the lunge. An initial "fling" may be acceptable but this goes beyond that.
		
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That's one way of looking at it, and lots of people would agree.

Some horses quickly learn that bucking and plunging can earn them a break. Lots of people have trouble longeing their horse because they keep trying to correct the horse and/or slow/stop him when he rushes on or bucks, whereas if the horse is sent on (given that he is free and comfortable to do so) until he settles into the work then allowed a short break, he should be less likely to mess about consequently.


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## Crugeran Celt (5 March 2013)

tallyho! said:



			Actually, lunging, in it's free form i.e. just from the nose is an art form and really quite enjoyable 

You can change a horse's body if you know what you are doing. It is hard though and gadgets and techniques exist to help achieve it but they tend to isolate specific muscle groups rather than work the body in harmony.

It can improve straightness, supple and strengthen in a relatively short time. It's learning the mechanics, the forces and the physics that take up a lot of learning. All this works best lunging from the very fore of the horse and not from the bit - there are very specific reasons for this! Not any that I will go into for now.

It's one of my passions actually and I hear so many people using it just to "let off steam" and I think, what a shame, it's a brilliant aid and lays the foundations for many things. 

It's one of my favourite 'in-hand' lessons for a horse.... the dizzyness does cease after a short time! 

Click to expand...

Sorry to hijack thread but Tallyho you seem to know what you are talking about, maybe you should start a thread on lunging because I for one am a complete failure at it with my Welsh Cob, my old mare lunges beautifully but I just can't get him going at all. Sorry OP for stealing your thread and as many have said well done for such a positive response to your critics and your willingness to learn from others who may have more experience with that attitude I am sure you and your partner will do well with your business.


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## RCP Equestrian (5 March 2013)

Crugeran Celt said:



			Sorry to hijack thread but Tallyho you seem to know what you are talking about, maybe you should start a thread on lunging because I for one am a complete failure at it with my Welsh Cob, my old mare lunges beautifully but I just can't get him going at all. Sorry OP for stealing your thread and as many have said well done for such a positive response to your critics and your willingness to learn from others who may have more experience with that attitude I am sure you and your partner will do well with your business.
		
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Don't worry thats fine  this thread has gone here there ans everywhere anyway! Haha

Aw thank you  good luck with getting your guy lunging! Its funny, I actually don't even like lunging haha


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