# Differences between Flat Coated Retrievers and Labradors?



## HeatherAnn (20 June 2012)

Just curious really. Not debating getting another pooch but met a lovely Flatcoated in the park and there were several similarities between my dog (who we thought was lab x border collie) and this retriever. Had a quick look through google and have found that the adult flat coat crosses look more like Scout now (he's just turned 1) whereas the Lab crosses look like when he was a puppy. 
So what, if any, are the differences? 
I can't post pictures sorry but if anyone wants to see the doglet then PM and I'll give you my Fb


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## CorvusCorax (20 June 2012)

Well they are different breeds (Labrador, Golden, Flat coat, Curly coat, Chesapeake Bay, NS Duck Tolling), true Flat coats are not a numerically huge breed. I've only met a couple (my Nan's neighbours used to keep them) and I would say they are a lot more sharp, temperament-wise than Labradors, in my limited experience.


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## lilyoftheincas (20 June 2012)

My late flat coat passed away to cancer at 6 (as many of them do, unfortunately) and now I have a Lab x staff. Main differences are longer coat, they are the lightest (weight wise) of the retrievers excluding tollers. You can't get flat coats in cream but in black and liver, although there are a few cream ones out there they are frowned upon by breeders (lovely though!). Both share brilliant temperaments, my flattie was the most gentle and loving dog you could ever have, although very big (big for his breed) he never, ever jumped up and would sit for hours letting even very little children give him cuddles. He wagged his tail 24/7 and never, ever bit or growled at anyone, didn't even nip when he was a baby! Disagree with CaveCanem there as my flattie was much more soppy than my lab x staff now and I have never met a 'sharp' flat coat!  his one weakness was water and that got him into some trouble quite a few times (jumped in a castle moat once! oh, and the duckling incident but we shan't mention that ) but he was simply the dog of a lifetime. Would love to see some pictures of your Scout if possible  sorry about the essay, not sure if that's what you needed to know but if you want any more info on flatties just feel free to pm me


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## camilla4 (20 June 2012)

We've had both - my parents used to breed Batty Flatties!  Absolutely wonderful temperaments - some can be as daft as Irish Setters and they mature quite late.   Ours were gundogs and my experience of them is they have a slightly longer learning curve than Labs but, once they get it, they frequently make better working dogs.   Both breeds are great family dogs and share a lot of similarities:  loving nature and good temperament.  Like Labs though, they are complete dustbins!!


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## MurphysMinder (20 June 2012)

Physically flat coats have a far longer head, with less stop than a labrador.


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## Alec Swan (20 June 2012)

I've had very little to do with Flatcoats,  but from what little I've seen,  they are handsome dogs,  but as they are rarely bred these days,  for work,  they seem to be yet another breed who's work ethic isn't being maintained.  Whether that's a good thing or not,  I'm not sure.  I did once attend a working test,  and a 'keeper from the next Estate had a young bitch with him.  She went like a guided missile,  and impressed every one of the spectators!! I don't remember what happened to he,  but she looked a very useful little dog.

The Curly Coated Retriever is another breed in decline.  I've only ever seen about a dozen or so,  in my life,  and to a dog they've been ignorant and selfish,  and a long way short of tractable or trainable.

Most working Retrievers in this country are Labradors,  and there's a good reason for that.

Alec.


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## ThreeTB's (20 June 2012)

We've got 2 flatcoats, they are a wonderful breed  

They are very trainable, but a bit more 'independent thinking' shall we say, than labs  and do take a long time to mature. But they are affectionate, always waggy and if you don't like being licked, don't get a flatcoat!

As camilla4 says, they are dustbins, I knew labs had this reputation but didn't realise ours would try to eat anything and everything in sight


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## Wiz201 (20 June 2012)

Lovely dogs, more exuberant than my goldies, but they are quite trainable. They do well in activities like agility as they are longer legged than goldies. They're like the racehorses of the retriever group of breeds.


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## Apercrumbie (20 June 2012)

Some very close friends of my parents had flat-coats when I was growing up.  They are lovely lovely dogs.  The constant wagging of tails can be a bit annoying and they are notorious food thiefs but very loyal and very fun.  I would agree that they take more training than labradors but I would go for a flat coat over a labrador any day.  (although I am biased as for some unknown reason I'm not a massive fan of labradors, bizarre I know).


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## HeatherAnn (20 June 2012)

@apercrumbie I'm the same. I don't like labs. I did work experience in a boarding kennels and 90% of the labs were mouthy, bolshy, jumped up and pulled when on the lead. I had some very suspect looking rope burns on my wrists :/


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## Wiz201 (20 June 2012)

I prefer retrievers to labs too.


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## ChesnutsRoasting (20 June 2012)

I know there is a high incidence of cancerous tumours in the breed (flat-coats) and historically they don't appear to have a long life span. Such a shame, I think they are very handsome.


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## lilyoftheincas (20 June 2012)

blazingsaddles said:



			I know there is a high incidence of cancerous tumours in the breed (flat-coats) and historically they don't appear to have a long life span. Such a shame, I think they are very handsome.
		
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To me they are perfect dogs but I would never have another one because of mine having cancer


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## ChesnutsRoasting (20 June 2012)

lilyoftheincas said:



			To me they are perfect dogs but I would never have another one because of mine having cancer 

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I'm very sorry When I was child (many years ago) they were no2 on my most wanted dogs list - Border Collie No1 and Bernese Mountain Dog No3. We have a couple walked nearby, very smart, obedient and sweet natured.


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## Vizslak (20 June 2012)

blazingsaddles said:



			I know there is a high incidence of cancerous tumours in the breed (flat-coats) and historically they don't appear to have a long life span. Such a shame, I think they are very handsome.
		
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I have known and do know many flatcoats, all working. Sadly most have had very premature deaths, cancer, neuro issues, liver disease.....heart breaking to see healthy seeming young dogs cut down in their prime. I wouldnt have one myself, there seems no way of insuring they are going to be ultimately healthy specimens, lord knows friends of mine have tried and tried to get one to live into old age, I dont know what numbers they are on now (they have 2 at a time always) but the stats arent good put it that way. Other friends have had similar issues and now given up on flatcoats all together. A few like the the first family keep perservering with the breed because they love them and hoping. Very sad really


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## Archangel (20 June 2012)

We have a lot round here, think there must be a club or something and they are just so tall!  Without exception they have been friendly, bouncy and great fun.  I am sorry to hear about the premature deaths though.  How sad.


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## Alec Swan (20 June 2012)

Vizslak said:



			I have known and do know many flatcoats, all working. 

*That's good to hear,  and I'm happy to be wrong!*

Sadly most have had very premature deaths, cancer, neuro issues, liver disease.....heart breaking to see healthy seeming young dogs cut down in their prime. 

*A bit of a hobby horse of mine,  but presumably with breed specific problems,  a small gene pool can't be helping matters.  Would now not be the time for the breed societies and the KC to get their heads together,  and by judicious out crossing to other,  but similar breeds,  could not FCs,  and other breeds be re-createdd,  with the added bonus of a little hybrid vigour?  It was Nero who fiddled whilst Rome burnt,  and now it's some of the breed societies,  or so it seems to me.*
.......
		
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Alec.


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## Vizslak (20 June 2012)

I dont know Alec, whilst I think that outcrossing can be useful to attempt to rid a breed of a specific genetic problem (as in the dally...controversial topic) the problems in fcs seem so wide and varied and hard to pin down, early cancers does seem to be a major killer but bar that they seem to get odd freak rare complaints that you couldnt even begin to pinpoint as to how the genetics of the conditions would work. I'm sure there must be healthy fcs out there but as said above several of my friends have tried and tried without success to get healthy specimens from health tested to the hilt stock...only for them to be struck down with some other rare disorder. It seems perhaps that the genetics of the breed are maybe beyond salvage in these instances.


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## CorvusCorax (20 June 2012)

Is the problem the same in all countries? I am assuming it is, but just thinking of whether it would be worth using AI or imports.


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## Alec Swan (20 June 2012)

Vizslak said:



			I dont know Alec, whilst I think that outcrossing can be useful to attempt to rid a breed of a specific genetic problem (as in the dally...controversial topic) the problems in fcs seem so wide and varied and hard to pin down, early cancers does seem to be a major killer but bar that they seem to get odd freak rare complaints that you couldnt even begin to pinpoint as to how the genetics of the conditions would work. I'm sure there must be healthy fcs out there but as said above several of my friends have tried and tried without success to get healthy specimens from health tested to the hilt stock...only for them to be struck down with some other rare disorder. It seems perhaps that the genetics of the breed are maybe beyond salvage in these instances.
		
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I find that very depressing,  but thank you just the same.

Would you know if any research has been done,  specifically where FCs are concerned?

Alec.


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## Vizslak (20 June 2012)

No idea on CC or Alecs queries I'm afraid. No flatcoat expert, just speaking from personal experience. 
Imports are a possiblity I suppose, would think its already been/being done to some extent though?! 
No idea Alec, I have to say I've never looked into it myself. Would have thought the cancer issues would have been researched to some degree.


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## claireandnadia (21 June 2012)

My friend has a black one, he is a lot taller than my lab, lot slimmer and completely different face. He's lovely.


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## Cop-Pop (21 June 2012)

I've only known 2 flat coats - both lovely, happy dogs.  Sadly one died aged 6 but it was the size of a house and I'm not sure if it was cancer or just being plain fat   The other one died aged 11 so a nice long life 
I've always had goldies and labs and will always be biased towards them


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## Echo24 (22 June 2012)

We use flat coat crosses at work, (generally crossed with golden retrievers). Depending on which breed they take after, I find the ones that are more like flatties are very scatty, bright and excitable! But they're very eager to please and once matured, make great working dogs. The real down side is they're prone to tumours and don't have as long a life span as labs.

Also found out from my colleague that flat coats are called flat coats because their faces are long and almost 'flat'.


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## camilla4 (22 June 2012)

charcoalfeathers said:



			We use flat coat crosses at work, (generally crossed with golden retrievers). Depending on which breed they take after, I find the ones that are more like flatties are very scatty, bright and excitable! But they're very eager to please and once matured, make great working dogs. The real down side is they're prone to tumours and don't have as long a life span as labs.

Also found out from my colleague that flat coats are called flat coats because their faces are long and almost 'flat'.
		
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Certainly agree with the first paragraph - really super working dogs if anyone is thinking of it!  But - I thought they were called flatcoats to distinguish them from the curly coated Retrievers?


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## ElleJS (22 June 2012)

We've always had flatties, the most wonderful, happy, loyal dogs, we have never met one with any kind of malice! The one we have now is so human dependent its ridiculous! Just has to be with you all the time for fuss and attention! Such a clever character too although it seems he will be an eternal puppy, they are know as the 'Peter Pan of the dog world'. All ours have lived to over 10 years but we go to breeders who are very selective and are breeding the cancers out.


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## Echo24 (27 June 2012)

camilla4 said:



			But - I thought they were called flatcoats to distinguish them from the curly coated Retrievers?
		
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I originally thought they were called flat coats because of the way their coat is (much straighter and 'flat' then say the coat of a golden retriever!) but was corrected by colleague! But then if you look at the faces of curly coats and flats, they do look very similar!


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## camilla4 (27 June 2012)

charcoalfeathers said:



			I originally thought they were called flat coats because of the way their coat is (much straighter and 'flat' then say the coat of a golden retriever!) but was corrected by colleague! But then if you look at the faces of curly coats and flats, they do look very similar!
		
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Hmmm - might have to take issue with your colleague!!   They are actually "Flat-coated" retrievers.  Happy to be corrected by any experts on here though!!


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