# Old owner wants horse back!



## Foster1983 (18 May 2011)

Can anyone offer me some advice please?

Almost 3 years ago I was given a horse who was offered to me as "free to a good home." The previous owner had bred the horse herself and had found herself in a position where her health unfortunately prohibited her from having the time to look after and do a great deal with him. She could not bring herself to take any money for him and agreed that if she could find a good home for him then she would literally give him away. 

The horse was dropped off with no notice and left at my friend's yard so I assumed the previous owner was desperate and took the horse on with no question. He was not in great condition but I saw some potential in him as he was sweet natured. After corrective shoeing, a lot of care, love attention, change of feeding routine and training and exercise I managed to straighten out his walk, improve his condition and get him showing to a really good standard. He now hunts safely, jumps to 1m high and always gets placed in showing classes. He is a really good all round horse and I love him to pieces! I have covered the cost of all of the livery and vet expenses.

2 weeks ago the previous owner called advising the horse was for sale and asking whether I would pay £1k for him (bearing in mind he will be worth a lot mor than that now!). She said the horse was never "free to a good home" and that I have only ever had him on loan. I would not have spent the thousands of pounds I have spent on someone elses horse and NEVER agreed to a loan agrement. After a discussion I agreed to pay her the £1k providing she left us alone it moving forward. 2 weeks later (whilst I was trying to scramble together the money) she called again saying she was coming to collect the horse the following morning and that she no longer wanted to sell the horse to me. I refused her entry to the yard until I have saught legal advice as I see the horse as my own and have no idea what to do!

Has anyone else had a situation like this before who may be able to advise me?

Thank you!


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## DragonSlayer (18 May 2011)

I'm betting you didn't get anything in writing either, did you?

Keep her off the yard and seek legal advice immediately, do you have the passport etc etc? I know this doesn't prove ownership but hang on tight to it....

I'd also call the police to advise them too, just on the off-chance, to let them know you were given this horse 3 years ago, and the person who gave you the horse, has told you they want it back, which would be theft, I'd guess.....


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## magichorse (18 May 2011)

What an awful situation for you!  Just a thought- could you counter  her demands for you to return the horse with a bill for £xxxx for the cost of 3 year's keep?

Good luck x


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## DragonSlayer (18 May 2011)

...and also, it could be looked at that she abandoned the horse anyway, surely..now she has seen how great you have made him, she is kicking herself no doubt....


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## DragonSlayer (18 May 2011)

magichorse said:



			What an awful situation for you!  Just a thought- could you counter  her demands for you to return the horse with a bill for £xxxx for the cost of 3 year's keep?

Good luck x
		
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Good idea! Get them reciepts and things added up.....


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## Lippyx (18 May 2011)

Did either of you sign anything saying he was yours? Who's name is on the passport? Tricky. Are you a member of BHS if yes, call their legal team, as if you are a gold member you get free legal advice.


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## dressagelove (18 May 2011)

You poor thing, what an awful thing to happen!

I'm afraid I haven't had any experience with this type of thing, but it sounds like you are doing the right thing with the legal advice,

What happened when she dropped him off, did you get the horses' passport? If you had the passport, maybe get the ownership changed officially so that the horse is yours in that sense.

You should have perhaps got a receipt, or signed letter off her saying she was giving it to you, and in a court of law if the horse is legally hers on the passport, it may be very hard to disprove. Do you have any other people who would back you up on this? I'm sorry I can't help more and really hope you sort it out!

At the very least you should be entitled to your money you spent on him back


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## LaurenM (18 May 2011)

I really feel for you. That's horrible. Seek legal advice and keep us updated if you're allowed to.


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## Lippyx (18 May 2011)

Also as magichorse said, get every receipt, vet bill and farrier bill you can find and tell her she can have him back when she pays you back for all the hard work YOU put in!

Have you any witnesses when she dumped him on the yard?


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## Brambridge04 (18 May 2011)

If you would like to PM me the horses name, and old owners name i may be able to help.

Very similar thing happened to me x


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## blueneonrainbow (18 May 2011)

Interesting thread... I read a news story today about a man who gave his dog away the decided he wanted it back the next day and the new owner is refusing to give it back. It's going to court so it'll be interesting to see the outcome of that which sounds quite similar to yours. I presume the old owner was nowhere to be seen all the time you were sorting the horse out? Do you have anything in writing at all? Definitely seek legal advice, common sense dictates you keep the horse but unfortunately the law probably isn't black and white on this issue!! Good luck.


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## Brambridge04 (18 May 2011)

Basically same happened to me.

I took mare on, brought to yard, dropped off, owner left, letter saying if i wanted to keep her she was mine, signed transfer of ownership form and passport was given to me.

Year later, said mare was a darling by this point, old owner wanted her back....turned up, took her while i wasnt there.

Had clearly reported passport as lost/stolen as she claimed later on to police she had one.

Police said it was a civil matter and without bill of receipt they coudnt do anything and it wasnt classed as theft.


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## Kaylum (18 May 2011)

Do not pay her anything, keep the horse and say if she wants the horse back she can take you to court.  Do not pay her your not a charity she couldnt look after the horse and you did.  Tough!


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## blueneonrainbow (18 May 2011)

Banbridge did you pursue it any further? Civil court for example?


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## Orangehorse (18 May 2011)

Was there an advert or anything in writing which said "free to good home?"

In the absence of a loan contract, I think you could charge her livery for the horse - 3 years x ? plus training, etc. etc.  Then you can come to some arrangement over taking the horse off her hands for the £1,000.

This is a nasty situation and I just hope it ends well for you.  

Quite common though.  My sister got a foal from a neighbour that the owners were fed up with.  She insisted on paying a small amount and when they came by 3 years later and saw what a nice horse he was, she could show them the cheque book where she had paid for him.


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## ThePinkPony (18 May 2011)

I would do the same and tot up everything you have paid out- absolutely everything and present her with the bill, saying you will discuss the horse when she reimburses you for the livery you have provided for X amount of time...

DONT say you will give the horse back if she pays, word it differently because im sure someone could prove that you are admitting you werent given the horse.


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## Kaylum (18 May 2011)

plus the value you have added onto the horse as it was not in good condition.  These people make me so mad.  She is seriously taking the pee. 

Dont think the dog court case will compare to 3 years of horse care and money.


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## Brambridge04 (18 May 2011)

I spoke to a solicitor, who said i was looking at a few hundred quid really, plus i needed to have an address for them to summon her to court. (that the right saying)

She also said, if all i had was passport and livery bills and the other girl had a passport, and a bill of receipt from when she brought her, court would likely rule in her favour, due to the receipt. She could prove she had legally paid for the animal where as although i could show livery bills, we couldve had a verbal contract for "a loan"

***without a current address they cant do much....***

Police and solicitor advised me to cut my lossess.

Hurt like hell.


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## shadowboy (18 May 2011)

happened to a girl on my fiends yard last year- her solicitor told her to move the horse to a location unknown to the previous owner until the situation was resolved. Was there an advert online or anywhere advertising the horse 'free to good home?' this is the evidence that helped the girl keep the horse on my firends yard. Ultimately it was up to the previous owner to prove that she still owned him. The fact that you've agreed to the £1000 wont help you to be honest. But I would move said horse untill the situation is resolved.


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## brown tack (18 May 2011)

Sure an unfortunate thing to happen

However as you said that you agreed to buy the horse now, it won't of you done you any favours as it sorts of admits that you didn't own the horse and he's old owner did. Otherwise why would you be paying for him now.

My best mate had something very similar happen, although it was the other way round. She loaned out a horse as having a baby, loaner said it was gifted, my mate took her to court and won. The loaner then brought the horse after the court case


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## Tnavas (18 May 2011)

Bill her for everything! Don't pay anything, make sure everyone knows on the yard that the horse is not to be allowed off the property and either lock the stable door or the paddock gate so she can't help herself. Good Luck to you.

I've just had this happen to me. I was given a mini as the owner had nowhere to keep it. 

I eventually moved it on to someone else who has also moved it on. This all happened about three years ago.

The old owner turned up recently, wanting the mini back as she needed to sell him and said she would give me $500 for my troubles - I advised her that I no longer had the horse and that he was not worth even $500 in todays market - not registered and not the best put together.

Have not heard from her since.

Many years ago I was offered a give away - off the track TB - and having heard of other peoples problems of owners claiming them back bought the horse for $2 plus a receipt. The money & receipt made it a l egal transaction.


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## FestiveBoomBoom (18 May 2011)

Jeez some people are just unbelievable. I would move the horse to a different location pronto. Do you have any mutual friends with this woman? Does she have your address or just phone number? ie any way of tracking you down?


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## SonnysHumanSlave (18 May 2011)

Hi, can't comment on this horse. 

But in the paper there was a lady that was given a dog free, then a month later the original owner decided they wanted it back, new owner declined. Old owner then stole dog back. All went to court, and new owner won full custody. 

Get yourself some legal help and you should be fine.  good luck!


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## MiJodsR2BlinkinTite (18 May 2011)

Feel for you! This is horrible. If the old owner dumped him and couldn't be bothered, then she doesn't deserve what sounds like a lovely horse.

Firstly, I'd move him PDQ. OK so you won't want to leave your current yard probably, but I'd do this as a matter of priority just to set your mind at rest.

Secondly, make a list of people who would be able to back you up re. the fact that the horse was "free to good home". Then go to see them/ring/e-mail etc and get them to sign and date a brief statement saying so. 

Then, sit down and tot up all your livery costs, everything you've spent on the horse and have it written down - if you know someone with accountancy experience even better, coz they'll be able to set it down as a proper balance sheet.

Then, armed with all the foregoing, consult a good solicitor who's got experience in equine affairs and/or (if you're a Gold member) consult the BHS. 

For now, I think the less you do, the better. IF you're gonna make an offer for the horse, make sure that if its in writing you use the words "Without Prejudice" at the head of the paper; and include in it your list/balance sheet of livery costs - which will be in excess of teh £1000 you have generously offered. 

Oh, what is WRONG with some people? This is typical dog-in-the-manger behaviour; she couldn't be bothered with the horse herself, now that someone else has bothered to look after him she's got all "precious" and wants him back. 

Hang in there, we're all crossing our fingers for you.


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## Clippy (18 May 2011)

Make her take you to Court and prove she is still the owner. Lets see her forced to put her hand in her pocket and pay Court fees to get it heard. I don't believe any Judge would favour her after you looking after the horse for 3 years in the belief it was yours all that time!

Don't give her the money either, just tell her you want her to sue you!


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## bugaboo (18 May 2011)

Im so sorry for the situation your in i know nothing about this but i wish you all the luck in the world,what a disgusting way for old owner to behave x


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## Spring Feather (18 May 2011)

I understand OPs frustration and most of the replies on here are what we might like to happen, but probably won't.  In cases like these you have to look at factual evidence.  Do you or previous owner have a bill of sale?  Do you or previous owner have registration papers and/or passport of horse?  Do you have any correspondence proving your claim that previous owner gave you horse FOC to keep for as long as you want?  Do you have any sort of contract stating what is what?

In most cases like these it is the previous owner who holds all relevant ownership paperwork and the person loaning or having care over the horse often doesn't legally have a leg to stand on.  You could take it to court and see where you stand but I think you'll be spending good money after bad trying to prove something you may have no proof off.

At the end of the day, and sad as it often is, the horses in situations like this generally end up being in the legal ownership of their previous owners unless the person loaning the horse has paperwork stating otherwise.

If the horse does belong to previous owner and you aren't able to prove that this person gave the horse to you then probably best just cutting your losses and give her the horse back.  I don't think it is reasonable at all to bill her for livery charges and costs for the horse for the past 3 years and anyway even if you did I doubt you'd be recompensed should she prove ownership.  You have had 3 years of fun presumably with this horse which you were "given" for free.  It's an unfortunate situation; the ray of hope is that you do have written evidence?  Then there would be a bit more going for your case.


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## jeeve (18 May 2011)

I would move him as well, they probably will not want to run up legal costs any more than you do, if you make it hard for them to find and take the pony, then they may, just may give up.

If they take him, it would I imagine be difficult for you to get him back.


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## Ranyhyn (18 May 2011)

Wouldn't like to be in your position.  Hope it works out in some way.


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## JanetGeorge (18 May 2011)

Kaylum said:



			Do not pay her anything, keep the horse and say if she wants the horse back she can take you to court.
		
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Ditto - a friend went through exactly the same scenario - it went to court - she won!  I had a very simiular situation with an in-foal mare the owner didn't want - and changed her mind 6 months later!  Lawyers letters, they tried to steal the mare eventually - and her by then yearling filly!  THEY called police whose only interest was in preventing a 'breach of the peace'.  I assured police there WOULD be a breach of the police if they tried to take my horse- police escorted them off my property.

It finally went to court - I won!


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## Spring Feather (18 May 2011)

JanetGeorge said:



			Ditto - a friend went through exactly the same scenario - it went to court - she won!
		
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Two of my friends went through same scenario except they were the "previous" owners - their cases went to court - they won because they had bills of sales, registration papers etc.  So it totally depends on what written evidence each case can provide.


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## Elsbells (18 May 2011)

Possesion is 9/10th of the law. I should imagine if she get her hands on him, you'll be lost, so be very careful.


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## Foster1983 (18 May 2011)

Thank you all so so much for your comments! Losing this horse would break my heart! The bills so far for the last 3 years come to a sum of over £5k and I do have receipts for everything! But in fairness the money means nothing. The previous owner came up with the purchase price of £1k, I only agreed on the understanding that she never contact us again because it was an evil trick to play.

I feel really naive because I got nothing in writing from her, I gave her the benefit of the doubt at the time. I was given his passport with the horse but did not change into my name... Yet another foolish thing! I had only ever loaned horses previously so did not understand the importance of all these small details! God I will not be this silly again.

A solicitor mentioned the law of "Equity"... (fairness)... and that because the previus owner has led me to believe for 3 years that the horse was mine until just recently it can be argued that this is unfair. She didn't mention anything prior to this month.

I could kick myself!


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## Foster1983 (18 May 2011)

Spring Feather said:



			Two of my friends went through same scenario except they were the "previous" owners - their cases went to court - they won because they had bills of sales, registration papers etc.  So it totally depends on what written evidence each case can provide.
		
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This lady bred him so will not have a receipt for him as such but will have his original paperwork... But then anyone who breeds a horse could keep the papers and snatch it back whenever they feel like it if this is what the law states!


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## Elsbells (18 May 2011)

Hah! You have the passport! 

Not proof of ownership we know, but proof of something seeing as you were given posession of it in the first place. I have to confess that I have only just done something about changing my mares this week and I have had her 2 years!! I do have a reciept though.


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## Spring Feather (18 May 2011)

You aren't the first and you won't be the last person to take someone on their word and trust that they won't change their mind at a later date.  Are you sure you don't have any emails lurking on your computer somewhere which might help your situation?  I agree with your lawyer that equity should count for something.  Out of interest, does the "owner" have any paperwork stating the horse is owned by her??  Right now the horse is in your care and control, I would think in this situation it is her place to prove that she owns this horse and if she has as little as you then who's to say who legally owns the horse ... possibly the person who has it?  I wish you luck.


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## DW Team (18 May 2011)

If you are a BHS gold member give them a ring and see if there legal eagles c
an help.  So sorry you have been put through this.   Good luck.


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## Spring Feather (18 May 2011)

Foster1983 said:



			This lady bred him so will not have a receipt for him as such but will have his original paperwork... But then anyone who breeds a horse could keep the papers and snatch it back whenever they feel like it if this is what the law states!
		
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Okay so neither of you have a bill of sale ... that's looking a bit more promising for you.  Is the horse registered?  Who has the registration papers?


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## MrsHutt (18 May 2011)

You said that the 'owner' had said she had merely loaned the horse to you?  Where is the loan agreement?  Would anyone who wanted their horse back in the end 'loan' it to someone without such an agreement?  I think that speaks volumes and would do so to any court hearing the case!  Also, the fact that you haven't heard from her in so long would make anyone think that she had 'abandoned' the horse and you would reasonably assume it was yours to keep.  

I do think you would have a good case if it went to court.  Fingers crossed for you!


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## babymare (18 May 2011)

oh foster sweetheart stop being so hard on your self - we all believe and hope in good human nature - i know i do  and been so hurt to - i have little legal advice  I know I cant help other than a big hug and my thoughts with you - and please hun you are human trusting and ready for hurting like me so please please stop tearing self up - pm me any time honest - i have great ears and shoulder  xxxx


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## Wagtail (18 May 2011)

I really do hope it works out well for you. What an awful thing to have happened.


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## kal40 (18 May 2011)

OP:  please keep us updated.  Its an awful situation to be in but you have had some good but of advice on here.


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## ofcourseyoucan (18 May 2011)

sad situation.you said the horse was dropped off at your friends yard, and then you took her on. surely your friend will back you up on the free to good home issue. or was the horse dropped off at your friends , for your friend to find horse a home?  Good luck.


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## bumper (18 May 2011)

All the very best of luck to you, really the woman who gave the horse to you is behaving very badly. If morals came into it, the horse is yours: she seems to have none. I very much hope all the good advice you have been given on here helps you, and that you prevail x


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## Amaranta (18 May 2011)

ORANGEHORSE said:



			Was there an advert or anything in writing which said "free to good home?"

In the absence of a loan contract, I think you could charge her livery for the horse - 3 years x ? plus training, etc. etc.  Then you can come to some arrangement over taking the horse off her hands for the £1,000.

This is a nasty situation and I just hope it ends well for you.  

Quite common though.  My sister got a foal from a neighbour that the owners were fed up with.  She insisted on paying a small amount and when they came by 3 years later and saw what a nice horse he was, she could show them the cheque book where she had paid for him.
		
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I agree, without a loan agreement she cannot prove it was indeed a loan, present her with a bill for livery and training, I'll bet she will back down.


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## Dolcé (19 May 2011)

I would strongly agree with those suggesting you move the horse asap!  If there is any chance of her getting possession of him you must prevent it as possession will make a huge difference.  I have seen so many times on here where the horse has been taken back and the new 'owner' had no redress.  I have to say though there are several happy endings on this thread which make me quite hopeful for you.  Good luck x


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## Circe (19 May 2011)

I hope everything works out ok for you. 
This seems to happen quite alot. 
If it was me the first thing i would do is move the horse so she cant just turn up un announced and take him. 
Then i would inform her you're billing her for 
livery, vets, farrier etc. Let her know that you will have the horse as payment. 
If and when this is sorted out, get it in writing that the horse is yours.


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## Amymay (19 May 2011)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...g-centre-tug-love-court-battle-Stockport.html


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## brighteyes (19 May 2011)

Would the horse pass a 5 stage vetting?  Just wondering...


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## MissMincePie&Brandy (19 May 2011)

Can you find any texts or emails from her, that you can use as written proof. Have you got any witnesses who can back up the fact that she gave you the horse?  

Have you got any emails or texts that you have written to your friends around the time you took him on, telling them about your new horse, and the circumstances with which he was given to you? These will be dated, and may provide useful evidence.

You need a solicitor.

Try and find as many invoices relating to the horse as you can, going back as far as possible; livery bills, vets bills, saddlery, dentist etc, etc 

As a last resort if you are unable to provide any proof of 'ownership', and it is a case of her word against yours, you and your solicitor might be able to justify making a claim against her for your expenses incurred over 3 years, which will work out far, far in excess of what the horse is worth. You need a good equine solicitor, who is not going to give in!

Good luck!


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## brighteyes (19 May 2011)

How often has she been in touch since he was dropped off and who brought him?  Were there any arrangements regarding his delivery and did he come with any equipments, vaccinations etc?


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## Puppy (19 May 2011)

Foster1983 said:



			Can anyone offer me some advice please?

Almost 3 years ago I was given a horse who was offered to me as "free to a good home." The previous owner had bred the horse herself and had found herself in a position where her health unfortunately prohibited her from having the time to look after and do a great deal with him. She could not bring herself to take any money for him and agreed that if she could find a good home for him then she would literally give him away.
		
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How was this 'offer' communicated to you?


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## Bug2007 (19 May 2011)

If you say you'll take her to court she might just back off.


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## Damnation (19 May 2011)

On one hand I think it was a little silly to take a horse without even paying £1 and getting a reciept and witnesses for the transaction. Perhaps I am just not a very trusting person  it is a lesson learnt and I hope that you keep the horse

What I would do is find witnesses to her dumping the horse at your last yard. I would also issue her a bill for the horse's keep if she has decided there was no contract in place. Perhaps she will back off then.


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## CHH (19 May 2011)

Hi,

Firstly,

Move the horse to a secure location.
Seek legal advice from an equine specialist. To cut your costs here you can do some leg work and prepare a file for them.
1) What happened the day the horse was dropped off?
2) WHO dropped of the horse? (Suggest you get their contact details)
3) Wintesses to the horse being dropped off
4) Spreadsheet with receipts to match of all expenses for this horse todate.
5) Passport (yes it is not legal ownership) but who had it made - you or her? If she handed it (as should have been legally correct 3 years ago on transfer whether money changed hands or not and when a horse travels for any reason) to you then this is not you stealing her horse. The horse was never reported stolen, abit odd if she would claim that route if she hadn't noticed for 3 years it had gone.
6) Are you at the same yard as 3 years ago? is this how she knew where you were?
7) Agreeing to pay her money has left some vulnerability.

Please do contact an equine solicitor - ask for a free hour consultation (or a small charge one) and then take it from there. Most will do this. 

Sadly not everyone is ethical in this world.

i wish you every success.

get a file of everything you can on the matter, I speak from experience (not the same issue but involving a horse) that the more you provide to a Solicitor in the first place the better.


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## brighteyes (19 May 2011)

And MOVE it, quick!


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## Foster1983 (19 May 2011)

The "free to a good home" message was communicated verbally through a friend and then to my face on arrival. He was delivered by previous owner with no notice and also no tack or rugs or anything that belonged to him. He was in very poor condition. There were witnesses to his abrupt arrival.

Since then she has been in touch 2-3 times just to see how he is. She was visiting family in my area last year and she popped in for 5 mins to see him. She didnt even recognise him! 

I am sure he would sale through a vetting process right now. If you saw the comparitive photographs of 'then' and 'now' you would think it was a different horse. 

I have saught legal advice, I guess I will be sitting tight and seeing what happens now. 

Thanks again for the advice!


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## unicornleather (19 May 2011)

Best of luck with this and let us know how you get on, Oz


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## missponymad (19 May 2011)

Foster1983 said:



			Can anyone offer me some advice please?

Almost 3 years ago I was given a horse who was offered to me as "free to a good home." The previous owner had bred the horse herself and had found herself in a position where her health unfortunately prohibited her from having the time to look after and do a great deal with him. She could not bring herself to take any money for him and agreed that if she could find a good home for him then she would literally give him away. 

The horse was dropped off with no notice and left at my friend's yard so I assumed the previous owner was desperate and took the horse on with no question. He was not in great condition but I saw some potential in him as he was sweet natured. After corrective shoeing, a lot of care, love attention, change of feeding routine and training and exercise I managed to straighten out his walk, improve his condition and get him showing to a really good standard. He now hunts safely, jumps to 1m high and always gets placed in showing classes. He is a really good all round horse and I love him to pieces! I have covered the cost of all of the livery and vet expenses.

2 weeks ago the previous owner called advising the horse was for sale and asking whether I would pay £1k for him (bearing in mind he will be worth a lot mor than that now!). She said the horse was never "free to a good home" and that I have only ever had him on loan. I would not have spent the thousands of pounds I have spent on someone elses horse and NEVER agreed to a loan agrement. After a discussion I agreed to pay her the £1k providing she left us alone it moving forward. 2 weeks later (whilst I was trying to scramble together the money) she called again saying she was coming to collect the horse the following morning and that she no longer wanted to sell the horse to me. I refused her entry to the yard until I have saught legal advice as I see the horse as my own and have no idea what to do!

Has anyone else had a situation like this before who may be able to advise me?
Thank you!
		
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gosh that must be horrible for you 
tell her to stay off the property and make sure he is safe and nothing seems suspicous in anyway around him because some horses act funny when they know somethings not quite right, you never know she could be hanging around the yard with out you knowing. make sure none of your stuff goes missing.

good luck with it all  xx


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## SusieT (19 May 2011)

Have to say the fact she ahs been in touch may not bode well with you. When she came to visit what was the discussion?


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## mosspe (21 May 2011)

Foster1983 said:



			.... He was delivered by previous owner with no notice and also no tack or rugs or anything that belonged to him. He was in very poor condition. There were witnesses to his abrupt arrival.
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sounds like a case could possibly be made for abandonment then?

I agree with all that has been said before, total up your costs to demonstrate that you have acted in capacity of ownership and tell her to take you to court - in fact, if I was you I might be tempted by a pre-emprive strike and get a solicitor to knock out a letter askinf for court time for recovery of costs/stress/mental anguish claim - harsh I know but might make her back off.

good luck!

ps dont forget to counter-claim for ALL time which you have spent on the rehabilitation of the horse, at a reasonable rate.  I would see the lack of a contract (sale or loan) which she is now trying to manipulate as an oppertunity to "ramp up" the counter claim, in terms of "we verbally agreed that you would retrospecivly cover all costs associated with rehabilitation of the horse, which I now cost at £xxxxx.  However if you are now unwilling or unable to meet these costs then I would be happy to take the horse in PARTIAL payment of services, along with a reduced payment of £xxx."   See what she makes of that.


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## LaurenM (21 May 2011)

Be careful though - she may have access to the forum. Hope it ends well for you.


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## Groom42 (21 May 2011)

Lots of good advice here, but very important.......MOVE IT!
This is not being "sneaky" or dishonest in any way. There is a civil dispute over ownership of a horse which owes you a considerable amount of money.  You are exercising something which is known as a "Legal Lien".


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## Kaylum (21 May 2011)

Have you got any photos of the horse when it arrived?  If so that will also be good evidence.


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## njw05 (21 May 2011)

This shockiingg, Ihope everything works out and u get to keep him. It will be hard to prove that he was given to u but hopefully if u show her all your bills and tell her to pay them she may back off. Let us know what happpens


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## superted1989 (21 May 2011)

There has been a recent issue here on IW with 2 donkeys being 'gifted' to the donkey sanctuary.  The ex-owners couldn't look after them anymore, financial I think, donkey sanctuary had room and took them in, then said donkeys became part of the herd with top rate care etc.  A few years later, the ex-owners are back on their feet and want the donkeys back.  The sanctuary refused, ex-owners kicked off but it has been ruled that the sanctuary are now the legal owners.  It was front page of our local paper, I'll see if I can find the link.
Hope it all works out for you.

http://www.iwcp.co.uk/news/news/donkey-row-couple-get-legal-action-warning-27477.aspx

Where does time go!  I would have sworn this happened just months ago, lol!


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## Oscar (21 May 2011)

If it were me I would have said "Sorry love, but I sold him last week... dont have their details anymore.... Goodbye!"

Also, does the friend who verbally told you about the horse, still recall the conversation etc and are they willing to back you up?


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## Baggybreeches (21 May 2011)

A similar thing happened to me, to cut a long story short I let the guy take the horse on the basis that he deposited £3.5k with my solicitor to cover expenses and schooling livery. 4 days later he came and asked me to buy the horse which had 'gone mad' and nobody could catch! I offered him £2.5k and he took it!
First thing is get yourself a solicitor who knows and understands the horse world!


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## JanetGeorge (21 May 2011)

HorseyLad said:



			Also, does the friend who verbally told you about the horse, still recall the conversation etc and are they willing to back you up?
		
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It actually doesn't matter!!  Having been involved in two of these cases, it really doesn't matter how the OP came into possession of this horse - as long as he was not stolen - and as long as there is no proper loan agreement in place.

The horse has been given away (to the OP) - either as an intended gift - or by abandonment.  The OP has cared for him, paid all his bills etc etc. for 3 years!  End of!  NO judge would accept that you'd do all that without believing you owned the horse, UNLESS there was a proper loan agreement!

Move the horse (in case ex-owner tries to steal him back when YOU will have to take the court action) and send her a letter by recorded delivery pointing out that she gave you the horse, that you paid all his expenses and cared for him diligently AS your horse - and that if she tries to get him back, you will be seeking recompense for expenses totalling £xxxxxxx.  Then wait for her to take legal action!  It would be a Small Claims case so you don't need to run up legal fees!


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## CatStew (21 May 2011)

I have no suggestions for you but just wanted to say that I feel for you!  What a truly horrible situation to be in!  Human beings can be disgraceful to one another at times, it's what's wrong with the world!

I hope everything works out for you, there is some cracking advice on here!


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## AnotherNewbie (21 May 2011)

I've been following through here, and just had a slightly different idea....get the vet on side. I assume the horse will have been seen by a vet a few times in the last 3 years with vaccinations and things. If they can also back you up that the horse was 'abandoned' with you in a poor condition, and that you have brought it back to health, than thats got to help as a professional opinion. 
Not quite sure how to word it, but hopefully you get my drift!!

Good luck with this, i feel for you, keep everyone posted!


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## BonneMaman (21 May 2011)

shadowboy said:



			happened to a girl on my fiends yard last year- her solicitor told her to move the horse to a location unknown to the previous owner until the situation was resolved. Was there an advert online or anywhere advertising the horse 'free to good home?' this is the evidence that helped the girl keep the horse on my firends yard. Ultimately it was up to the previous owner to prove that she still owned him. The fact that you've agreed to the £1000 wont help you to be honest. But I would move said horse untill the situation is resolved.
		
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Moving her is a very good idea!  It is certainly something I would consider if you yard is not secure.  At this time of year you could just find a field to put her in temporarily while all this is sorted out.


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## equinim (21 May 2011)

go to court
i am going through same thing
i was given a horse as if i didnt take it it would b shot.
 i took horse on and started  to break her in but she was very difficult. put her on loan to a stud for 18mnths for them to breed foal.
they have contacted old owner and she is now saying i had horse on loan (no loan agreement exixts).
i have been told by solicitor to take it to court requestingeither.
1) horse is signed over to me
2) she pays rehabilitation livery costs.

good luck


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## amyc123 (23 October 2020)

Foster1983 said:



			Can anyone offer me some advice please?

Almost 3 years ago I was given a horse who was offered to me as "free to a good home." The previous owner had bred the horse herself and had found herself in a position where her health unfortunately prohibited her from having the time to look after and do a great deal with him. She could not bring herself to take any money for him and agreed that if she could find a good home for him then she would literally give him away.

The horse was dropped off with no notice and left at my friend's yard so I assumed the previous owner was desperate and took the horse on with no question. He was not in great condition but I saw some potential in him as he was sweet natured. After corrective shoeing, a lot of care, love attention, change of feeding routine and training and exercise I managed to straighten out his walk, improve his condition and get him showing to a really good standard. He now hunts safely, jumps to 1m high and always gets placed in showing classes. He is a really good all round horse and I love him to pieces! I have covered the cost of all of the livery and vet expenses.

2 weeks ago the previous owner called advising the horse was for sale and asking whether I would pay £1k for him (bearing in mind he will be worth a lot mor than that now!). She said the horse was never "free to a good home" and that I have only ever had him on loan. I would not have spent the thousands of pounds I have spent on someone elses horse and NEVER agreed to a loan agrement. After a discussion I agreed to pay her the £1k providing she left us alone it moving forward. 2 weeks later (whilst I was trying to scramble together the money) she called again saying she was coming to collect the horse the following morning and that she no longer wanted to sell the horse to me. I refused her entry to the yard until I have saught legal advice as I see the horse as my own and have no idea what to do!

Has anyone else had a situation like this before who may be able to advise me?

Thank you!
		
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Hiya just wondering what the outcome of your situation was? I’m in a similar situation now unfortunately


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## shamrock2021 (23 October 2020)

Didn’t now you can reply to threads this old. I recommend you get legal advice . I would probably start a new thread it will give you more update advice.


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## The Fuzzy Furry (23 October 2020)

amyc123 said:



			Hiya just wondering what the outcome of your situation was? I’m in a similar situation now unfortunately
		
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That poster hasn't been on line since May 2011. Perhaps try starting your own thread as suggested above?


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## amyc123 (23 October 2020)

The Fuzzy Furry said:



			That poster hasn't been on line since May 2011. Perhaps try starting your own thread as suggested above?  

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Thank you!


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