# Thistle-Who?!



## Elf On A Shelf (1 December 2017)

'He goes to Newbury and he's ready to win' 

Uh huh! So what happened then? He got beaten by the majority of the field! Love the name of the horse that won - Beer Goggles - he's come a long long way since winning a crappy wee hurdle wound Hexham that's for sure!


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## Clodagh (1 December 2017)

Beer Goggles ran a cracker. I doubt the Douvans and Might Bites are trembling at the thought of Thistlecrack in the King George.
Those who subscribe to RUK - did  you see the piece on Bobsworth?


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## Rowreach (1 December 2017)

Clodagh said:



			Beer Goggles ran a cracker. I doubt the Douvans and Might Bites are trembling at the thought of Thistlecrack in the King George.
Those who subscribe to RUK - did  you see the piece on Bobsworth?
		
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Was it interesting?  Bit of a local connection to me


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## Alec Swan (1 December 2017)

He'd always stand a better chance in the King George with less weight on his back,  I suppose. :wink3::rolleyes3:

Alec.


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## Dobiegirl (2 December 2017)

It was disappointing I must admit but horses are not machines, the race was run at a very fast pace and all the runners knew they had had a race afterwards, by all accounts he had a good blow after the race.

I still think its too early to write him off, if his next race the KG he fails to fire then it will be obvious he is not the force of old. Fingers crossed he is sound as a pound tomorrow.


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## Chiffy (2 December 2017)

Such a shame his career was interrupted by injury, it happens to so many. I hope he regains his form.

How do people think up these names? Beer Goggles, does it mean something?
We recently bought a horse who had been named as a three year old You Will Go Walking, it didn&#8217;t relate to his pedigree. How awful was that ?! Luckily Sport Horse Ireland have let us change it, phew!


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## Clodagh (2 December 2017)

Chiffy said:



			Such a shame his career was interrupted by injury, it happens to so many. I hope he regains his form.

How do people think up these names? Beer Goggles, does it mean something?
We recently bought a horse who had been named as a three year old You Will Go Walking, it didn&#8217;t relate to his pedigree. How awful was that ?! Luckily Sport Horse Ireland have let us change it, phew!
		
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Beer Goggles is when you have had too much to drink and someone gets more and more attractive. When sober you realise you were looking at them through 'beer goggles'. Awful name, I agree.


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## Chiffy (2 December 2017)

Oh thank you Clodagh, it does mean something then!


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## Clodagh (2 December 2017)

Chiffy said:



			Oh thank you Clodagh, it does mean something then!
		
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My brain is so full of such useless trivia it is no wonder I cannot remember anything important!


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## Alec Swan (2 December 2017)

Chiffy said:



			&#8230;&#8230;..

We recently bought a horse who had been named as a three year old You Will Go Walking, it didn&#8217;t relate to his pedigree. How awful was that ?! Luckily Sport Horse Ireland have let us change it, phew!
		
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If the person who named the horse was the person who bred it,  I wonder if they'd agree with you.  Despite assurances from AES that if I registered my youngsters with them,  they would not permit a name change,  as soon as the horses were sold,  they reneged on their agreement.  Many of these registration authorities and AES are amongst them,  claim to support British Breeders,  but ignore one of the main breeder-complaints. 

It's a constant gripe with breeders that the registration authorities permit name changes.  In your case 'You Will Go Walking' must have meant something to the person who so named the animal,  and it's only a shame that you decided against their wishes.

There is also a strong argument to support the person registering the name and their intellectual property rights.  

Alec.


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## Tiddlypom (2 December 2017)

I'd be absolutely gutted if anyone changed the name of my homebred. As Alec says, it was chosen with care. I'm angry that it is even allowed.

ETA I like Chiffy's horse's original name anyway.


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## Rowreach (2 December 2017)

Tiddlypom said:



			I'd be absolutely gutted if anyone changed the name of my homebred. As Alec says, it was chosen with care. I'm angry that it is even allowed.

ETA I like Chiffy's horse's original name anyway.
		
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I agree.  I've chosen the names of mine very carefully, and they all meant something to me.  Any future owner can pick a stable name of their own if they want, but I don't think registered names should be allowed to be changed.


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## claracanter (2 December 2017)

Love the name Beer Goggles....I will be following him through the season.

I have an ex racer that was bred by The Queen. He's called Blantyre, not the nicest name in the world but I'm sure she chose it for a reason. I read somewhere his dam, Bella Macrae, was named after a character in the Queen Mother's favourite  poem or book. I wonder if Blantyre is named after Captain Blantyre in Black Beauty.


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## Clodagh (2 December 2017)

And what of the 'Hennessey'? Whisper ran a cracker, shame to be beaten by the Irish (no offence Irish peeps!). I was surprised both jockeys didn't get bans for whip use, it was not edifying viewing, but I see only Paul Townend actually got 2 days. Coneygree looks spent now, sad that such a talent seems to have faded.


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## Elf On A Shelf (2 December 2017)

Rowreach said:



			I agree.  I've chosen the names of mine very carefully, and they all meant something to me.  Any future owner can pick a stable name of their own if they want, but I don't think registered names should be allowed to be changed.
		
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Same, ours are always chosen for a reason. Their stable names are another matter! The foal is currently called Gummy Bear and she will probably remain that until she grows into her proper name - Calista. 

As to the Hennessey - Coneygree now has a wind problem. Last time it was bad light and an over reach (I can agree with the over reach but no the light situation). I haven't seen the race yet.

Over at Newcastle  Buveur D'air won the Fighting Fifth as though it were a bit of routine work. Irving is a stalwart of that race but every year it brings in a top notch horse. Last year it was Applesjade.


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## Dobiegirl (2 December 2017)

Apparently Faugheen watched Buveur D'airs race then went back to sleep.


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## Elf On A Shelf (2 December 2017)

Dobiegirl said:



			Apparently Faugheen watched Buveur D'airs race then went back to sleep.
		
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Aye 'cos he is going to need all the rest and sleep he can get to prep himself for chasing those Green and Gold Hoops up that hill!


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## Clodagh (2 December 2017)

EKW said:



			Aye 'cos he is going to need all the rest and sleep he can get to prep himself for chasing those Green and Gold Hoops up that hill!
		
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Let's hope! I do hope they both get to Cheltenham safe and sound. And Altior and Douvan.


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## Chiffy (3 December 2017)

Sorry I opened a can of worms about names. This horse was not named by the breeder. He was named before going to Gorebridge Sales in Ireland as an unbroken three year old. We hope he will be with us for the rest of his life and prefer a name that means something to us. I am certain the original breeder has not tried to follow his progress.


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## popsdosh (3 December 2017)

Chiffy said:



			Sorry I opened a can of worms about names. This horse was not named by the breeder. He was named before going to Gorebridge Sales in Ireland as an unbroken three year old. We hope he will be with us for the rest of his life and prefer a name that means something to us. I am certain the original breeder has not tried to follow his progress.
		
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What makes you so sure of that?


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## KautoStar1 (4 December 2017)

EKW said:



			'He goes to Newbury and he's ready to win' 

Uh huh! So what happened then? He got beaten by the majority of the field! Love the name of the horse that won - Beer Goggles - he's come a long long way since winning a crappy wee hurdle wound Hexham that's for sure!
		
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Bet you'd kill for a horse of his quality in your yard though !


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## Elf On A Shelf (4 December 2017)

KautoStar1 said:



			Bet you'd kill for a horse of his quality in your yard though !
		
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And who says we don't? We have plenty of nice youngstars coming through - oh and a wee horse who won some dodgy wee race called the Grand National?!?

My original comment wasn't a dig at the horse but a dig at the trainer for being so bullish before hand. Nothing in life is a certainty no matter how good your horse is.


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## KautoStar1 (8 January 2018)

Well TC is out for the season again.  Hairline fracture apparently.

I think it bears out the theory that a good horse can have a great season and be virtually unbeatable in that time, but its only the very exceptional ones like Kauto, Big Bucks, Denman, Dessie, Best Mate, Hurricane Fly and Sprinter, that can maintain that winning formula season after season and even after the adversity of injury.  I mean really exceptional horses.   The rest are just good.  And we need to accept that and be thankful that we get to see them when we do and not moan when we don't.    People moaned about Hen Knight only getting Best Mate out 3 or 4 times a year, but he is still the only horse in recent times to have won back to back Gold Cups.  He was exceptional but also brilliantly managed, as was KS.


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## Chiffy (8 January 2018)

Good post KS, it&#8217;s so sad when a horse is so good, you just want them to go on and on because that is where NH racing scores. We like ones to love and follow season after season. Sadly Coneygree is another fragile one who couldn&#8217;t realise his potential, or rather he got there but not for long.


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## Alec Swan (8 January 2018)

KautoStar1 said:



			Well TC is out for the season again.  &#8230;&#8230;.. .

I think it bears out the theory that a good horse can have a great season and be virtually unbeatable in that time, but its only the very exceptional ones like Kauto, Big Bucks, Denman, Dessie, Best Mate, Hurricane Fly and Sprinter, that can maintain that winning formula season after season and even after the adversity of injury.  I mean really exceptional horses. ....   

&#8230;.People moaned about Hen Knight only getting Best Mate out 3 or 4 times a year, but he is still the only horse in recent times to have won back to back Gold Cups.  He was exceptional but also brilliantly managed, as was KS.
		
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I'd suggest that the exceptional horse needs to be teamed and under the control of the exceptional management crew and as will be obvious,  it would be rare for the owners to fully understand &#8230;&#8230;.. 

An interesting point/question;  if we consider the Nicholsons and the Hendersons,  the Gosdens and Cumanis,  and if we consider just how many horses they have in training and for the years that they've plied their trade,  I wonder how many horses an owner needs to have before he knows more than the trainer &#8212; I wonder how often the owners decide upon the race,  be the horse in a fit state to run,  or not.  In short,  how many horses does an owner need to have before he knows more than his trainer?

Alec.


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## Elf On A Shelf (8 January 2018)

Part of me thinks Thistlecracks new injury is partly down to being brought back into work too early and pushed too hard from his last one. I know it is a completely different type of injury and on a different leg but to get a horse back from a leg in 10 months is pushing it. Most people go by the adage of - 3 months box rest, 3 months walking, 3 months turnout and 3 months training to race a year on from the initial injury. No it wasn't a big injury but there was still a hole in the tendon. We've put horses away for a year for much less. 

As to Alan's question of how many horses do owners have to have before they know more than the trainer - none. Unless you follow them around 24/7, see all their thoughts and think the way they do you will never know what your horse is truly 100% upto. Yes many owners choose their races but that's when they know their horse - stayer, chaser, hurdler or sprinter but they will always ask the trainer if the horse will be ready to run for then or ask them to be within their best capabilities. If the owner thinks they can do a better job then they should train the horse themselves.


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## KautoStar1 (9 January 2018)

Alec Swan said:



			I'd suggest that the exceptional horse needs to be teamed and under the control of the exceptional management crew and as will be obvious,  it would be rare for the owners to fully understand &#8230;&#8230;.. 

An interesting point/question;  if we consider the Nicholsons and the Hendersons,  the Gosdens and Cumanis,  and if we consider just how many horses they have in training and for the years that they've plied their trade,  I wonder how many horses an owner needs to have before he knows more than the trainer &#8212; I wonder how often the owners decide upon the race,  be the horse in a fit state to run,  or not.  In short,  how many horses does an owner need to have before he knows more than his trainer?

Alec.
		
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I don't think this is about owners though, although they play a part.  this is more about those good horses like Thirstlecrack and Coneygree who have had their 'brilliant' season but they will never make it into the history books as exceptional, eg Kauto, Best Mate, because they simply  aren't exceptional.  They are just good.  As I suspect Sizing John is just good.   A brilliant season can take a lot out of a horse.  Much more than is obvious on the outside.   Taking nothing away from these good horses.  They've been amazing on certain days.  but their longevity is short lived.  Nothing wrong with being good though.  Anyone lucky enough to own these good horses should be very happy with their lot.

As for owners knowing more than their trainers - depends on the owner doesn't it.  A corporate man with a load of cash probably knows a lot less than the man who breeds his own stock and has spent all his life around horses.     Doesn't mean the corporate man can't learn as he goes along but wont really affect whether his horses are exceptional or just good.  That's down to the horse itself.  They either are or they aren't.  its then the trainers job to try and ensure his horse reaches its full potential.     Would Coneygree have won the gold cup under another trainer ?  hard to know isn't it because a yard with a lot of horses would have probably carried on down the novice route.  The Bradstocks decided to risk it because it was probably their one and only chance with a delicate horse who at that point just happened to be very fit and well.  So he had his brilliant day.  Is he exceptional ?  No, I don't think so.  Neither is Thirstlecrack.   They are just good.  And we should be thankful for that.


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## Chiffy (9 January 2018)

Need a like button, KS or at least an agree one! We would be delighted to be proved wrong if any of these good horse became exceptional.


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## Alec Swan (9 January 2018)

KautoStar1 said:



			&#8230;&#8230;.. Coneygree &#8230;&#8230;.. .  Is he exceptional ?  No, I don't think so.  Neither is Thirstlecrack.   They are just good.  And we should be thankful for that.
		
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And I'm sure that we are grateful,  but I wonder who's decision it is to run a horse,  a horse with a reputation,  when in reality it's pulled up 5 from home and simply shouldn't have been entered.  It happens all to often and unless the trainer doesn't know his job,  we have to ask who it is who makes the decision,  or perhaps the demand.

Alec.


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## Judgemental (9 January 2018)

Alec Swan said:



			He'd always stand a better chance in the King George with less weight on his back,  I suppose. :wink3::rolleyes3:

Alec.
		
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If Colin really wants to get his horses fired up, he should take them all out for an hour or so, with the BV with hounds speaking and a few hollers, along with much music on the horn about two or three days before each race meeting. Wires these horses up fantastically.

May be pop a hedge or two with the rest of the field, although that is a bit risky with valuable horses, that are entered in a big race in a few days. 

If I owned any horses, for National Hunt racing, I would not consider any other yard. Colin Tizzard and his brother Joe are masters of the art. None better, very modest and courteous. They would however, have to put up with my instructions to take them out with the hounds before racing.

In terms of a jockey, especially for the National only Whaley-Cohen will do.


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## Elf On A Shelf (9 January 2018)

Judgemental said:



			If Colin really wants to get his horses fired up, he should take them all out for an hour or so, with the BV with hounds speaking and a few hollers, along with much music on the horn about two or three days before each race meeting. Wires these horses up fantastically.
		
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Whilst we don't hunt our horses we do cannon about the farm with them for a few days before they run, it's amazing how much brighter and sparkier they are for basically playing cowboys and indians lol!


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## Judgemental (9 January 2018)

EKW said:



			Whilst we don't hunt our horses we do cannon about the farm with them for a few days before they run, it's amazing how much brighter and sparkier they are for basically playing cowboys and indians lol!
		
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Delighted to hear that. Tootling on the horn works wonders too, but it's the hounds speaking that gets into a horse's 'hard drive' and when they get to the meeting with all the noise etc. they think they are out hunting.


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## KautoStar1 (9 January 2018)

Not every horse is suitable for hunting though and neither are ground conditions.  It's a great way to freshen up a horse that's stale, if it takes to it.


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## Judgemental (9 January 2018)

KautoStar1 said:



			Not every horse is suitable for hunting though and neither are ground conditions.  It's a great way to freshen up a horse that's stale, if it takes to it.
		
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Agree but a little risk can pay dividends. I stress I would only recommend an hour or so.

That said, a hunt that indulges top quality National Hunt horses in those circumstances, can point to the economic contribution, the hunt makes to racing.


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## KautoStar1 (10 January 2018)

Judgemental said:



			If Colin really wants to get his horses fired up, he should take them all out for an hour or so, with the BV with hounds speaking and a few hollers, along with much music on the horn about two or three days before each race meeting. Wires these horses up fantastically.

May be pop a hedge or two with the rest of the field, although that is a bit risky with valuable horses, that are entered in a big race in a few days. 

If I owned any horses, for National Hunt racing, I would not consider any other yard. Colin Tizzard and his brother Joe are masters of the art. None better, very modest and courteous. They would however, have to put up with my instructions to take them out with the hounds before racing.

In terms of a jockey, especially for the National only Whaley-Cohen will do.
		
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Don't think I'd want to be going to the first fence of a 3 mile chase with my horse 'wired up'.  Quite the opposite Id think.

Joe is his son not his brother.      

See this is the problem, owners making instructions like this.  Not helpful to the person who has spent hours carefully planning a training regime for a delicate TB to then be told to take it hunting, irrespective of the horses needs.


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