# Pup with a heart murmur? Help!



## MissJael (4 August 2011)

The pup I've put a deposit on was 8wks old yesterday and was taken for his jab and a vet check this morning. The breeder has since told me that the vet detected a heart murmur but said he may grow out of it and will look at him again in 4wks.

I think I know the answer to this question but I'll ask it anyway - should I steer clear now? The breeder has been amazingly honest to tell me about it and has offered to keep him for another 4 weeks for me and get the second check, or refund my deposit.

Pup is a bichon frise, male, KC reg. I've never come across this before so any experiences, good or bad, would be welcomed. Is this the sort of thing that would lead to regular, huge vet bills? Or me trying to stop pup becoming excited in case he keels over? I don't want to let myself (or the dog) in for a whole lot of heartbreak 

Thanks for any advice


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## CAYLA (4 August 2011)

At this age heart murmurs can fade as quick as they are detected so yes she is being very truthful with you. There is obs a chance he has heart problems that may remain with him and you have to think in the case of insurance, if you declare it, it will affect premium. Basically I would not be at all suprised if they wipe heart conditions off the insurance for instance if you declared!
I would ask to speak to the vet and get them to ease your mind as to what exactly they detected, or ask if you can take puppy to your own vet for a 2nd check. We have had dogs with heart problems over the years, my mam has kept a cavi back with a grade 4 heart murmur at present and she is doing fine, but one day she will no doubt go as quick as the others she has kept back for heart defects that came in as rescues, one being a shepherd and 2 labs. The lab was sandringam gun dog, very well bred (over me head) lol he lived a normal life and died age 11. The shepherd got as far as Edinburgh vet hospital but nothing could be done we lost her at 6. The puppy lab died in his sleep age 12 weeks his heart was really bad.
We have also had plenty of pups with heart irregularity that have simply faded, I have see alot through work too.

A, it could simply fade as suggested as she will lve a normal life with a normal heart
B, If this where the beginning of heart probs she could get so far without meds possily forever if mild enough, but if she needed them it would be very costly.

Only you can decide if you take a chance, you are paying for this puppy.


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## CAYLA (4 August 2011)

Ps, leaving pup with breeder for 4 weeks would be good, this lessens any heartache on your side.


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## Ginger Bear (4 August 2011)

My bichon frise was 4 when I got her - she was rehomed. Took her to the vet & they detected a heart murmur. The next time we went to the vet it was gone!


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## EAST KENT (4 August 2011)

Sounds like a very honest good breeder to me,so hang in there. We had a mini bull terrier boy just like this,he stayed here until six months old ,and was rehomed for peanuts with the provisio that he attended the heart clinic every three months.By one year old he was without a trace of a murmur ,and it is only by colour doppler that the slight scar tissue thickening on one side of his heart can be seen.His heart function is AI,he has a great home..even so he is endorsed not for breeding.
  By the way..the clinic mentioned is held by Lakeview vets in Deal,and on clinic days specialists come in for heart/eyes/kidney scanning/HD and Elbow X raying..plus Urine sent off for kidney function. All under one roof, easy and very reasonable costings.PM if you want more details.


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## devonlass (4 August 2011)

I don't know enough to comment on the murmur issue itself,although I also understand they can go as quick as they came.

I'm afraid if it were me though the insurance issue would be the deal breaker.It seems dog insurance is notorious for excluding things with no grounds what so ever,let alone something that actually was a pre existing condition,so for those reasons I would walk away.

Insurance might not be an issue for you of course in which case sounds like hanging on for another 4 weeks would be a good option,at least breeder seems honest so you have some peace of mind on that score.

Sorry this has happened but keeping all crossed for you and good luck whatever you decide.


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## MissJael (4 August 2011)

Thank you all for your comments, especially those regarding insurance - I hadn't thought of that!
I am going to ring the breeder tomorrow and have a good chat with her. I'll ask to speak to her vet to get their opinion as well.

Depending on how that goes, I will ask her to hold on to the pup for the next four weeks, on the basis that the vet gives it a clean bill after that, and the pup is holding weight, playing well, etc.

Fingers crossed this isn't a bad omen! xx


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## MinskiKaii (4 August 2011)

We rehomed our mini jack russell, picked up as a stray at 6 months.  He was very sick when we got him, he was being sick and had kennel cough and was just looking very ill.    My vet, who luckly is a heart speacialist,  diagnosed with a grade 5 heart murmor and had went in for tests.  Initially the vet gave him 2 years to live and we would take it from there and see how he goes. 

He has weeks where he just stands and stares in the house with his heart racing.  Most the time he is fairly well in himself, but he collapses every week or so on walks.  

He is on betta blockers twice a day and as he was ill when I got him, the insurance won't cover any of the costs, so I have had to pay for all his treatment.  The rescue place I got him from, wouldn't pay any of the bills.  So my vet was great to help keep the big bulk if the initial testing costs to a minimim.  He is a star!!

He has made it to 7 so he's done very well.  But it is scarry that he could just not get up one of the time he collapses.  

I think you are doing the right thing, making sure you find out nothing serious is underlying the murmor.


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## Honey08 (5 August 2011)

My friend's brother breeds labs.  Once, one of the pups had a heart murmor, so they gave him to my friend as they didn't want to sell him with an issue.
Years later the dog was checked for something else, and there was no sign of a murmor. I always thought that they were responsible breeders because they didn't sell him with a potential problem...


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