# Fish people? Help :( high fishy casualties!



## Elsiecat (21 March 2013)

A few weeks ago I bought some cold water fish. I had about 8 fish of 2 or 3 different types. On top of that I got a mini eel looking thing (about 2 inches long) and a white frog. 
My tank had been alive for 3 days beforehand like i was recommended. 
Eel died within a week. 
The rest were fine. 
Another fish died maybe a week or 2 later.
The rest were fine. 

Tonight I was noseying and realised I could only see 1 fish and the frog.  

So I moved all the decorations and took the air thingy out. Everything dead apart from the ones above!!!!! Some look like they've been split in half!? Others just look like they've been dead 2 or 3 days. 

Also, between going in the tank with my little net and leaving the tank alone, my frog appears to have died. Not sure if he's playing dead so I left it. 

I have 2 cats, could that be anything? 

Really confused!

RIP fishys


----------



## Suelin (21 March 2013)

No expert on fish but could the frog be eating the fish?  A mate of ours lost his entire tank to some sort of crayfish/mini lobster type thing.


----------



## Elsiecat (21 March 2013)

The lady told me everyone would live happily together! I think I can account for all bodies bar possibly 2. 
Don't know whether I should go to the shop. They cost about 25/30 altogether and I followed all instructions


----------



## Spottyappy (21 March 2013)

Am not an expert, but we have freshwater fish. The tank needs to be set up about a month before adding fish,but the most important thing is to only add 2/3 at a time.could that be a factor with yours,as new fish affect the water quality, nitrates etc.
 Also, fish do eat other fish, especially true if you have males and females as the males can get quite aggressive.
Hope that makes sense, but maybe someone who has better knowledge will post too.


----------



## milo'n'molly (21 March 2013)

That's a lot of life for a new aquarium to sustain. What kind of cold water fish were they?
You can buy a water test kit for a few pounds, ammonia ( from fish waste) is highly toxic and the bacteria in your filtration system will need a long time to develop to be able to convert all the ammonia into a safe product, 3 days is really nowhere near long enough for a new set up. You can buy beneficial bacteria to help speed up the colonisation of your filters but fish the dead fish out and leave the remaining fish in so its waste can feed the bacteria in the filter. When you have stable water perameters for a week add another fish and so on.

I think you were given bad advice for a new system as I don't know how big your tank and fish are but it sounds like it was over stocked and you have new tank syndrome.
I don't know anything about frogs but don't they need to be able to rest out of the water?


----------



## NeverSayNever (21 March 2013)

keeping fish successfully is actually fairly complicated and you have to do things properly.  That in my limited experience is far too many fish to start with, and how big was the tank they were in? It would have to have been pretty massive to accommodate that lot. Also, the tank needs to be set up several weeks in advance with a proper filtration system in place.

I have set up and lost many fish and gave up, Im too rubbish to do it properly. However my husband, fish geek  got a tank for Christmas about 5 years ago. He did everything by the book, he is fanatical about them and whereas I would have had 10 fish in it as to be the tank looked huge! He insisted on only 4 - and they are still alive and thriving. Note - I do not touch it, I have nothing to do with it


----------



## Luci07 (21 March 2013)

All of the above. Thats a lot of new fish in a new tank. I was told to leave the tank running for at least a week and then start off with just 1 relatively hardy fish (in my case I chose a  comet). You can buy cheap testing kit to check your nitrates are at the right level which is handy. I change my water (25%) of it a week and use water that I have either left out overnight to get rid of the chlorine or I have added in something like Stresscoat which you can add to the clean water and add pretty much immediately.

Clean the tank and check all the filters. I would also buy a safestart (tetra or something similiar) which will help build up the nitrates for you. Think of the size your fish will grow to as well when working out how many will go in your tank.  I lost my entire tropical fishtank when I added in a number of new fish - all of which I was assured would be fine. Particularly gutted as my tank had been doing very well before hand and I lost everything in under a day - tank stress.

I now have one large coldwater tank with a mix of comets. At some point I will go back to having another tropical tank but not right now! I also add a very very small amount of aquarium salt from time to time which my fish seem to like and have 6 all doing well.


----------



## Elsiecat (21 March 2013)

No idea what types of fish! They were various shades of boring grey.

I did exactly as the shop said was fine etc!  

I also asked if the frog would need a rock to get out and she said no, these frogs never leave water and are water frogs 

Will buy a water tester thingy on Monday and test the water.
I think once these die out my days of fish keeping are over!


----------



## NeverSayNever (21 March 2013)

Elsiecat said:



			No idea what types of fish! They were various shades of boring grey.

I did exactly as the shop said was fine etc!  

I also asked if the frog would need a rock to get out and she said no, these frogs never leave water and are water frogs 

Will buy a water tester thingy on Monday and test the water.
I think once these die out my days of fish keeping are over! 

Click to expand...


sounds like you were given rubbish advice- was this a decent fish specialist shop or your corner pet shop?  We have had great advice from the staff at Dobbies Aquatics.


----------



## catxx (21 March 2013)

The first thing you have to do is forget everything the shop has told you. For a shop to give you correct advice is a very rare thing. 

Fishkeeping a complex science! I've been going about 8-9 years and am still learning. 

The frog for starters was really really bad advice. The frog you bought was an albino African Clawed Frog. It's tropical, not coldwater, and gets the size of a tennis ball plus legs, and eats everything. Definitely not compatible with ANY fish!!

Never EVER buy a fish without research. They are complex creatures with a huge variety of needs (water chemistry, diet, social needs, tank size, the list goes on and on!). 

Fish are definitely not easy! 

Buy a water tester, a liquid one and NOT strips which are inaccurate! Such as the kits by API or Tetra. ANY reading of ammonia or nitrite will kill fish, it literally burns them inside and out, dissolves their gill tissue, and they suffocate to death. 

DO a 50% partial water change with dechlorinated water.

Don't give up because of this mistake! It's a typical beginner whoops, believing that the person in the shop will give you good guidance! It's a fascinating and rewarding hobby. I have two tanks and really must do a water change right now that I've been putting off!


----------



## milo'n'molly (21 March 2013)

Aw, don't give up yet we've all made mistakes by doing too much too soon. Just add one at a time and let it settle down and keep an eye on your water. Like I said I've never kept a frog so I dunno


----------



## Elsiecat (21 March 2013)

NeverSayNever said:



			sounds like you were given rubbish advice- was this a decent fish specialist shop or your corner pet shop?  We have had great advice from the staff at Dobbies Aquatics.
		
Click to expand...

Do you think I should put a perch in for my frog incase he comes alive again? 

Just a normal pet shop! I didn't think fish could be that specialized 
Nightmare!!!

I'm in half a mind to ask for a refund but then it's probably equally my fault for relying solely on their advise and not doing further research!


----------



## catxx (21 March 2013)

Elsiecat said:



			Do you think I should put a perch in for my frog incase he comes alive again? 

Just a normal pet shop! I didn't think fish could be that specialized 
Nightmare!!!

I'm in half a mind to ask for a refund but then it's probably equally my fault for relying solely on their advise and not doing further research!

Click to expand...

please read my post re your frog


----------



## Elsiecat (21 March 2013)

catxx said:



			The frog for starters was really really bad advice. The frog you bought was an albino African Clawed Frog. It's tropical, not coldwater, and gets the size of a tennis ball plus legs, and eats everything. Definitely not compatible with ANY fish!!

DO a 50% partial water change with dechlorinated water.
		
Click to expand...

Just googled the frog, yep, that's my boy! I literally followed everything they told me. Even down to putting in wormy things from a packet every few days because the frog needs them. 

Where can I buy dechlorinated water?

If I was to start again, with good advise, could I have a tropical tank?

I origanally wanted a Nemo Clown Fish but the tanks suitable were bigggggggg money so I gave up on the thought 

I feel so guilty that I failed them all!!


----------



## NeverSayNever (21 March 2013)

Elsiecat said:



			Just googled the frog, yep, that's my boy! I literally followed everything they told me. Even down to putting in wormy things from a packet every few days because the frog needs them. 

Where can I buy dechlorinated water?

If I was to start again, with good advise, could I have a tropical tank?

I origanally wanted a Nemo Clown Fish but the tanks suitable were bigggggggg money so I gave up on the thought 

I feel so guilty that I failed them all!!
		
Click to expand...

dont feel bad, Ive done the same. However if you do choose to continue you need to be aware its actually a LOT of work and you need to do some research i think


----------



## milo'n'molly (21 March 2013)

You don't need to buy the water just an addative lite tapsafe.


----------



## MissTyc (21 March 2013)

Read up on how to cycle your tank  and new tank syndrome. Essentially the fish in your tank have been poisoned. 

If you still have live fish, you can still cycle the tank - read up on the "cycling with fish" method. 

It's actually the filter that needs cycling; i.e. the bacteria that will break down the ammonia in the water need to grow. Nitrites need to be at 0 before fish can move in -- API water test kit is absolutely needed, not test strips!

Then read up on bioload to understand what inhabitants you can keep in your tank and how to introduce them to not overload the bacteria. 

Finally, water changes. Get hold of Seachem Prime to make tapwater safe for fish. For the first few months of a new tank, weekly 50% water changes will be needed until everything stabilises. After that it depends on your bioload, plantation, filter capacity, etc ... 

Also, if you had goldfish these have a massive bioload and I think they recommend a 30 gallon tank for even two fish, so not the best starter fish., You'd be better off getting a heater and going for some easy tropicals like a tank of male guppies or platies ... 

Hope this helps x


----------



## catxx (21 March 2013)

Elsiecat said:



			Just googled the frog, yep, that's my boy! I literally followed everything they told me. Even down to putting in wormy things from a packet every few days because the frog needs them. 

Where can I buy dechlorinated water?

If I was to start again, with good advise, could I have a tropical tank?

I origanally wanted a Nemo Clown Fish but the tanks suitable were bigggggggg money so I gave up on the thought 

I feel so guilty that I failed them all!!
		
Click to expand...

You don't buy dechlorinated water, you use an additive in regular tap water, such as Tapsafe. It removes harmful chlorine, chloramine and heavy metals from regular tap water.

And yes the only difference between maintaining a tropical and a "coldwater" tank is one bit of equipment, a heater! A tank that doesn't have a heater isn't actually coldwater anyway, it's room temperature which can range from freezing to boiling depending on your thermostat! Fluctuating water temperatures are more harmful than a stable one. A true coldwater tank has a chiller running on it - which costs 10x more to buy and run than a heater!

Forget Nemo, marines are big bucks and quite an adventure down the chemistry path. Maintaining marine water chemistry is a lot harder than freshwater. I don't have a marine tank for the simple fact that I can't afford it, a dog would be cheaper! 

Do lots of reading on fishkeeping, I recommend this site:
http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/
(Yes I'm geek enough to subscribe to that mag)
And I edit this site:
http://www.theaquariumwiki.com/
And this site is also good:
http://www.seriouslyfish.com


----------



## Kallibear (21 March 2013)

You've been very badly advised!

A tank needs a really good biological (bacteria) mini ecosystem to keep the water healthy. They convert fish waste into harmless nitrate that either plants can use up or you water change. It takes time for the ecosystem to establish! The fish you bought basically died of poisoning on their own waste. 

Start again with the tank. See if you can get ahold of 'dirty' filter pad from a healthy established setup: do you know anyone with fish? Tropical or cold would work fine. It will seed your tack with lots of healthy bacteria. Get a couple of plants too. Leave the tank for at least 2 weeks then get ONE hardy bog standard goldfish.  Once you've kept it alive for at least a month you can slowly add more.


----------



## Elsiecat (21 March 2013)

Oh god! I can't tell you all how bad I feel!!!!
Can't think of many worse ways to go than poisening off your own waste


----------



## honeymum (21 March 2013)

All the advice above is great BUT before you get a goldfish or any other coldwater fish what size is the tank, if it's less than 100 litres steer well clear of goldfish and get danio's. Or even better buy a heater and go for a nice community set-up as goldfish get huge.
I've got a 180 litre tank with 3 fancy goldfish and a plec (steer clear of these too unless the tanks huge) in it and it really isn't big enough  also a 125 litre and 60 litre tropical tank, now they are all established they're really easy for maintenance.
I would suggest you return the frog to the shop, if he's still alive as he will definitely eat anything that fits in his mouth and maybe take a picture of the other fish and see if any of us can identify it for you.

Good luck with your tank it'll be great once it's sorted


----------



## Kallibear (21 March 2013)

Think of it more like carbon dioxide poisoning. 

If you want tropical, they're actually a lot easier as they're much smaller. Some like Guppies are really hardy and very pretty.

Please go and do some research. If t
You're talking about Nemo's, eels and frogs you really do need to read up. 

P.s the 'eel' was prob a weather loach.


----------



## Buds_mum (21 March 2013)

Only to add. Urrrgh weather loach.

I got two once, they get leaping out of the tank! Gross slimey eel things. And in thunderstorms they got extremely excited!


----------



## Kallibear (21 March 2013)

Aww, don't say that! They've been my favorite fish so far, even more than corys. Mine used to love playing in the filter slip stream and would eat food out my hand and enjoyed being stroked (used to swim up and twine round my fingers). They do jump though! Condensation cover is essential! Mine escaped once and found him the next day all curled and dried up on the carpet. I put him back to rehydrate and he was fine!


----------



## Elsiecat (21 March 2013)

Thanks for all the advise!!!!

I've just remembered something. 
When I got home to put the fish in I picked up the bag that had the frog in. I could have sworn I bought 2 weather loaches and a frog but when I got home there was only 1. So I thought I must have been imagining it! I bet the frog ate it


----------



## catxx (21 March 2013)

Elsiecat said:



			Thanks for all the advise!!!!

I've just remembered something. 
When I got home to put the fish in I picked up the bag that had the frog in. I could have sworn I bought 2 weather loaches and a frog but when I got home there was only 1. So I thought I must have been imagining it! I bet the frog ate it 

Click to expand...

Likely!!

Weather Loaches aren't the best fish to keep either. They are so called as they are sensitive to air pressure weather changes and go mental, easily jumping out of small tanks, so need a minimum of a 4-5ft long tank with a secure lid! They can also get up to 10" long, presuming you got Misgurnus anguillicaudatus.

It's European cousin, Misgurnus fossilis, requires a permit to keep in the UK!!


----------



## Elsiecat (21 March 2013)

Wow! 
I did start to enjoy having a different type of pet (by type I mean something that isn't furry!). 
I even started noseying at reptiles!
What type of conditions do Mexican walking fish live in? I've always wanted them but obviously I have no idea about fish and need a good google session


----------



## catxx (21 March 2013)

Elsiecat said:



			Wow! 
I did start to enjoy having a different type of pet (by type I mean something that isn't furry!). 
I even started noseying at reptiles!
What type of conditions do Mexican walking fish live in? I've always wanted them but obviously I have no idea about fish and need a good google session 

Click to expand...

Mexican Walking "Fish" aren't fish but aquatic salamanders! They need cold water (they die if the water gets too warm) and can't be kept with any fish. 

This is a good site on them
http://www.axolotl.org/


----------



## Elsiecat (21 March 2013)

I knew it wasn't the 'proper' name but didn't dare attempt to spell it!!! Is that the type of tank id need a cool thing for?


----------



## catxx (21 March 2013)

Elsiecat said:



			I knew it wasn't the 'proper' name but didn't dare attempt to spell it!!! Is that the type of tank id need a cool thing for?
		
Click to expand...

Potentially. I know in the summer I unplug the heaters on my tropical tanks and the tank temperatures still stay at around 78-80F, that would kill an Axie!


----------



## Elsiecat (21 March 2013)

Also, how did fish from the fair survive in my tiny little circle tank with no filter system and no air pumps etc?


----------



## Elsiecat (21 March 2013)

^I promise that'll be my last question!


----------



## catxx (21 March 2013)

Elsiecat said:



			Also, how did fish from the fair survive in my tiny little circle tank with no filter system and no air pumps etc?
		
Click to expand...

They don't survive for long. Any that survive for more than a week is down to luck and nothing more! They suffer from ammonia poisoning, stunting, and then they die a miserable death.


----------



## Kallibear (21 March 2013)

Have a look at mud skippers. There an interesting pet to have and not hugely difficult to keep. My friend has them.

I think, if I was you, I'd go for a basic tropical set up. Start of with some guppies or platys (both easy and pretty) then think about other fish types later.


----------



## Meowy Catkin (21 March 2013)

Kallibear said:



			I think, if I was you, I'd go for a basic tropical set up. Start of with some guppies or platys (both easy and pretty) then think about other fish types later.
		
Click to expand...

I know very little about fish, so I looked Guppies up and they are very pretty. Lots of colours too. 

http://rioslibres.info/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/guppychart.jpg


----------



## catxx (22 March 2013)

FYI Guppies are not as hardy as they used to be. They are intensively in bred to get those colours and equally intensively farmed for the pet trade, no longer are they the hardy beginner fish they used to be! A similar fate has befallen the Neon Tetra.


----------



## Kallibear (22 March 2013)

Agreed about guppies but they're still easier than cichlids etc! Platys or mollys (with a little salt) are prob hardier. Or the other indestructible little fish seems to be corydoras, although they need to be kept in groups so not ideal for start up.


----------



## Luci07 (22 March 2013)

Agree with tropical and that would be my choice if I was starting over again. Much more colourful! But do go tropical and NOT marine. The latter is a lot more work! If you had a smallish tank I would look at buying a number if tetras, but you do need the heater and air pump.


----------



## catxx (22 March 2013)

Luci07 said:



			Agree with tropical and that would be my choice if I was starting over again. Much more colourful! But do go tropical and NOT marine. The latter is a lot more work! If you had a smallish tank I would look at buying a number if tetras, but you do need the heater and air pump.
		
Click to expand...

You don't necessarily need an air pump, you do of course need a filter. The simple act of the filter outflow breaking the surface of the water produces enough oxygen for the average community fish. It's only fish from very fast flowing water that need an extra boost of oxygen (such as White Cloud Minnows or Hillstream Loaches) - in which case I would actually recommend a powerhead blowing across the water and NOT an air stone! 

Air stones and little bubbles are just decoration. It's only when they pop on the surface that they make any impact on the oxygen content in the water.

Remember to research any species you may consider! Not all Tetras or Corydoras have the same needs. There are around 150-200 species of Corydora for instance!


----------



## dunthing (22 March 2013)

Tropical is so much easier than cold water and strangely, the bigger the tank, the easier it is to keep the water in good condition. I would suggest a good book which takes you through the setting up process to planting, buying compatible fish and diseases. "The bumper guide to tropical fish" by Interpet is an excellent starter. Pet shops know very little about the animals/fish that they sell. Try to find a proper fish breeder/keeper who can advise you. I have two corys left out of a tank that I had about 7 or 8  years ago. I'm giving up on fish so just waiting for old age to catch up with them. Don't feel guilty about the fish you've lost, we've all done it at some time.


----------



## GrumpyHero (21 May 2013)

catxx said:



			They don't survive for long. Any that survive for more than a week is down to luck and nothing more! They suffer from ammonia poisoning, stunting, and then they die a miserable death.
		
Click to expand...

i kept a goldfish i won from a fair for 7 years! she grew absolutely huge and we never had any filters or anything


----------



## catxx (21 May 2013)

Again, that was down to luck and you got lucky with a fish that could put up with crappy water quality. Doesn't make the method of keeping Goldies right. Especially considering their real life span is 15-20 years


----------



## GrumpyHero (21 May 2013)

Ahh i see. Aw my poor flow, i was only young at the time and i feel bad now thinking that she lived in crap water even though her tank always had clean water etc.


----------

