# Pessoa training aid - for or against?



## Lucy_Ally (19 April 2008)

Would be interested in your views, are they just a gimmick or a useful tool? Worth the money? Does anyone have any success/horror stories?

Would like to know before I splash out on one!


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## MistletoeMegan (19 April 2008)

Don't like them on the whole. They have their uses, but are normally not used correctly and create an icky outline. Unfortunately most people who use them think this outline is correct 
	
	
		
		
	


	





I would love to get a collection of photos of horses working in Pessoas, where the owner/rider thinks the horse looks good, and then Photoshop the Pessoa out to show that the horse actually looks like its trying to win a ploughing contest with its front legs. I am however a technological dinosaur, so can't do it 
	
	
		
		
	


	





*awaits flaming from HHO members who love their Pessoas 
	
	
		
		
	


	




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## Bossanova (19 April 2008)

I'm with Megan2006. I do think they have a use if used correctly but I prefer other training aids.

Pessoas tend to put them on the forehand and leave the hocks trailing by creating a false rounding. I also dont like the back strap and how it connects to the mouth- so that it's movement follows through to the mouth.


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## JM07 (19 April 2008)

i'm another "not keen" ..


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## Lucy_Ally (19 April 2008)

Thanks guys, since I currently only have side-reins for lunging and I need to get madams hocks under her more on the lunge - what would you recommend? 

I have tried lunging with 2 lines but she is a lazy toad and I am farly inept with 2 lines and a lunge whip!!


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## MotherOfChickens (19 April 2008)

another one who dislikes them on the whole, mainly for the way the backstrap connects to the bit but also because people dont know what a correct outline is (which obviously isnt the fault of the pessoa).

*hides behind Megan2006 as is galant like that 
	
	
		
		
	


	




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## Bossanova (19 April 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks guys, since I currently only have side-reins for lunging and I need to get madams hocks under her more on the lunge - what would you recommend? 

I have tried lunging with 2 lines but she is a lazy toad and I am farly inept with 2 lines and a lunge whip!! 

[/ QUOTE ]

High side reins or side reins crossed at the wither like grass reins to keep her head up and then plenty of encouragement with the stick! It's not an easy thing to acheive but if you really want to get the backend working then my advice is to leave the front end relatively alone.


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## MotherOfChickens (19 April 2008)

mine has just started working well in side reins, have them higher rather than on his shoulders though. was recently told not to use anything until you have forward, down and out on the lunge consistantly otherwise you are just fixing the outline. seemed to make sense to me 
	
	
		
		
	


	




poles in a fan shape are a good exercise, start with one then up to 3.


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## Lucy_Ally (19 April 2008)

[ QUOTE ]

High side reins or side reins crossed at the wither like grass reins to keep her head up and then plenty of encouragement with the stick! It's not an easy thing to acheive but if you really want to get the backend working then my advice is to leave the front end relatively alone. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, this has been my philosophy so far - I guess it is up to me to work harder! Thanks for you help.


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## Lucy_Ally (19 April 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
mine has just started working well in side reins, have them higher rather than on his shoulders though. was recently told not to use anything until you have forward, down and out on the lunge consistantly otherwise you are just fixing the outline. seemed to make sense to me 
	
	
		
		
	


	




poles in a fan shape are a good exercise, start with one then up to 3. 

[/ QUOTE ]

She does work freely, forwards and stretches down when lunged in just a bridle with some encouragement! 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 I am now keen to get her sitting on her hocks better (rather than trailing them in another county!)
She will lean on the side-reins but I have them on the ring on the side of the roller or on the girth straps of the saddle - so I will put them higher and try that.

Thank you!


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## Lucy_Ally (19 April 2008)

Where are all the people that answered yes?! I need a balanced debate!


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## MagicMelon (19 April 2008)

I like mine. Although TBH mine isnt an actual Pessoa, its a cheaper copy!


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## MotherOfChickens (19 April 2008)

do you have elasticated side reins? if she leans on those might be worth trying non-elasticated or vice versa.


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## Lucy_Ally (19 April 2008)

Yes they are elasticated (the elastic strip rather than the elastic ring). To be hoenst they are synthetic and as old as the hills, so if I am saving money by not buying a pessoa I could get some spangly new ones!


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## galaxy (19 April 2008)

I do like my pessoa.  However my pony does not work well in it at all.  He can lean on it and lengthen it to the point it doesn't have the desired effect!  Interestingly he is one of the lightest horses to ride in the hand, so shows he's just a clever native monkey!

However I've been using it on my friends competition horse that I ride.  I've had a bad hand since we got him in October so my riding has been limited.  He had no muscle when he came and now he's really looking good!  However he is naturally rounded and active behind, so just pushing him on brings him off the forehand.  I do have a picture on the other computer with him in in, I will try and post it sometime to show you.  It probably won't be tonight though, sorry!

I agree I see loads of people using them totally incorrectly!


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## Coffee_Bean (19 April 2008)

I just bought one, using it for the first time tomorrow, but it was an eBay copy, will let you know how I get on.


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## jess_asterix (19 April 2008)

This is what my one horse thinks of it







he just hates it being round his bum

and then Tom, puts his head really low and this helped as it stretched it back a lot. BTW it isn't tight, so not making him go like that.













Im not sure wether i am a fan or not. I don't use it regularly enough to notice a major difference.


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## Marchtime (19 April 2008)

I'll admit I said yes I think they have their uses. I don't use one on my boy (apart from the once where my siggie was taken) but that's because he is a **** to lunge - last time the vet needed him lunged he ended up IV sedating him first! However, some of the youngsters on our yard are lunged in them and it seems to work. I suppose it depends on your horse and what you like.


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## Parkranger (19 April 2008)

I got shot down at my old yard for not using side reins or a pessoa when lunging!  I prefer two lunge lines....and a bridle!


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## alfirules (19 April 2008)

when you say 2 lunge lines do you mean like longreining on a circle?

i have never used the pessoa or seen anyone using it, but my riding instructor who is the most knowledgeable horse person i know told me not to use it as shes seen it being used in wrong hands many a time and it can cause alot more problems and bad behaviour and it fixes the horse in a false outline.


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## Lucy_Ally (19 April 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
I got shot down at my old yard for not using side reins or a pessoa when lunging!  I prefer two lunge lines....and a bridle! 

[/ QUOTE ]

I do like lunging with two lines and did it a lot with my youngster and he was great. Spring is a lazy madam and if I don't have a lunge whip (even though I only flick it at her and never smack her with it) she takes the michael and is chronically lazy! Unfortunately my co-ordination is not up to two lines and a whip!


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## Parkranger (19 April 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
when you say 2 lunge lines do you mean like longreining on a circle?

i have never used the pessoa or seen anyone using it, but my riding instructor who is the most knowledgeable horse person i know told me not to use it as shes seen it being used in wrong hands many a time and it can cause alot more problems and bad behaviour and it fixes the horse in a false outline. 

[/ QUOTE ]

In a way yes - you need to use a roller to loop the lines through but the far line goes around their bum to your hand and the nearest one straight to your hand (if that makes sense).  Just find the line on their bum (if their sensitive) makes them track up and use their back end more.....


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## alfirules (19 April 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
when you say 2 lunge lines do you mean like longreining on a circle?

i have never used the pessoa or seen anyone using it, but my riding instructor who is the most knowledgeable horse person i know told me not to use it as shes seen it being used in wrong hands many a time and it can cause alot more problems and bad behaviour and it fixes the horse in a false outline. 

[/ QUOTE ]

In a way yes - you need to use a roller to loop the lines through but the far line goes around their bum to your hand and the nearest one straight to your hand (if that makes sense).  Just find the line on their bum (if their sensitive) makes them track up and use their back end more..... 

[/ QUOTE ]

i have done it alot, i just always called it long reining on a circle, just checking it was the same! you can do it with a saddle also.

i've been told driving whips are good for lungeing with 2 lines as they dont have such long thongs on them so they dont get caught up in the lines.


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## Parkranger (19 April 2008)

Not sure I could deal with a whip and two lines!   I have used a saddle in the past but only really double line lunge if I'm not riding so stick a roller on instead.


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## lauraanddolly (19 April 2008)

I'm currently borrowing a pessoa copy from a friend, and i just can't make my mind up about it - having said that i haven't used it that much maybe 6 times, but i find most of the problem with it is the hassle of putting it on, give me my roller with my side reins already attached any day of the week for time saving. As for actual use i've only ever used it on the loose setting and it hasn't caused any major reaction from my horse - her particular problem is stretching so i've found on this setting she will come down alot more than with out the pessoa on, which has improved our free walk a little - but that wasn't hard it's awful! 
 Thye friend i'm borrowing it from isn't in any rush for it back so i'm going to continue my assessment for another couple of weeks, while i'm waiting for my new saddle.


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## Tierra (19 April 2008)

Dont like them at all. 

Its meant to encourage a lowering of the head and an engagement of the hind quarters to be beneficial for the back. However, due to its design and you can SEE this very easily when you watch - i mean its glaringly obvious! With every stride the horse takes, it jabs itself in the mouth due to the pulleys.

Some horses work this out quite fast and resort to a bizarre shuffling gait behind. They avoid pushing back too much with their hind legs to try and avoid the jabbing of the mouth. The hind legs dont power out which people falsely believe means they are coming under them - they arent.

So, yes, the head gets lowered but the horse will never seek to take a contact because its continually getting socked in the mouth. The result is much the same as riders with jabby hands - the head lowers and generally over curls so it drops behind the bit. 

In addition, it usually succeeds in dropping the horse very deeply onto its forhand.

Hate the damn things


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## atot (19 April 2008)

I actually got one for my birthday last year. Horse and I really didn't like it. SO not worth the money, if you fit it even slightly wrong it sucks, no instructions, and the horse might be encouraged to bring it's leg under but then the moment it carries it'self forwards the backstrap can jab in the mouth. I don't think I'll be using mine again. 

I got a really fantastic result from a bungee, when I rode in one for 10 mins a few weekends ago. I would much rather spend my money on that, but that's just my opinion.


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## Storminateacup (19 April 2008)

It is a hideous piece of torture to my way of thinking. 
It forces a horse in to an unnatural, uncomfortable outline. 
I cannot imagine what possessed me to use it on my youngster three year ago ( probably seeing Dressage riders at my yard using them),  but I certainly paid the price, when I took it off him and he went mental, cantered off and I got dragged and broke my pelvis and spent three months in a wheelchair. 
Its a quick fix gadget that causes more problems than you can imagine. 
Its quicker to go the long way round and do your schooling slowly and carefully getting your horse to work from behind with enthusiasm and impulsion. 
The Pessoa will make your horse unhappy. 
Never seen a horse look happy in one.


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## Hullabaloo (19 April 2008)

I don't normally do gadgets but I swear by mine.  Boo had a lot of issues with a back problem that was also causing unlevelness and the vet recommended it.  We've been using it regularly since June and it has made such a difference to his muscles and resolved the issues we had.  I still use it twice a week and notice a difference if I don't use it for a while.
It is now an essentail piece of my kit, although whether I would bother if he didn't have his back issues, I'm not sure.
If you do get one though, I'd avoid the Mark Todd version as I've had a lot of problems with ropes slipping.


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## Hullabaloo (19 April 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
The Pessoa will make your horse unhappy. 
Never seen a horse look happy in one. 
	
	
		
		
	


	





[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, but I think this is a sweeping statement and I object to the implication that I am making my horse unhappy.  He works perfectly happy in a pessoa and has done for the past 10 months.  
He is a far happier horse than when he was suffering from back pain (and yes I had explored lots of other avenues and had lots of tests done before following the advice of a back specialist to use it).  If I had thought at any point that he was not happy I would have gone straight back to the vet to discuss other solutions.
It may not have suited your horse, but that doesn't mean it does not suit any horse.


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## HattieTom (20 April 2008)

i certainly would not use one. This is quite an interesting arcticle on Gadgets/training aids
http://www.sustainabledressage.net/tack/gadgets.php


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## nickylou (20 April 2008)

i use an eqi-ami lunging aid and my mare goes much calmer and relaxed in it than being lunged without.


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## Lucy_Ally (20 April 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
i certainly would not use one. This is quite an interesting arcticle on Gadgets/training aids
http://www.sustainabledressage.net/tack/gadgets.php 

[/ QUOTE ]

What a fantastic read! I have spent the last 2 hours reading the whole website and learnt a great deal - thank you


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## HattieTom (20 April 2008)

Glad you enjoyed the site, you may find this one a good read as well..

http://nicholnl.wcp.muohio.edu/DingosBreakfastClub/BioMech/BioMechRide1.html


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## spaniel (20 April 2008)

QR.   For remedial work they have their place BUT only in experienced hands and only for very short periods.  IME they are very rarely used well and put a horse into an incorrect outline plus they weight the forehand even more than nature does.

IMO the only way to get a horse to put his hinds further under him is to shift the weight backwards by lifting the shoulders, under saddle or in hand, and this cannot possibly happen in the pessoa.  Almost all these 'gadgets' try and push the hind end under and forwards yet nothing encourages the vital lift at the front.

I do own a pessoa and do use it very occasionally but only for very specific reasons and only for a few minutes.


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## henryhorn (20 April 2008)

I think their success depends entirely on the individual horse.
We use them when breaking the yougsters because it teaches them to go sweetly and in a rounded basic shape. 
The horses they don't work on are those already on their forehand or who tend to go behind the vertical. The pessoa seems to make this worse. 
We prefer to use a roller with driving terrets sticking up at three levels and two long lunge reins. These can be used round the quarters or straight back over the roller to your hands. 
You have total refinement, you can place the horse's body exactly how you want it and with practice can change the rein at trot on figures of eight.
We use a combination of both the pessoa and the long reining to achieve a balanced calm horse before we get on.
as gadgets go, this is probably the best of the lot.


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## spaniel (20 April 2008)

I totally agree HH.  Its the delicate use of the rein at the correct angle which is much more effective at creating the correct outline.

Longriening/lining seems to be a dying skill unfortunately.


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## dalziel (1 May 2009)

I have used a pessoa but don't like it. In the end I always go back to the simplest of training aids - the chambon.  I helps enormously with young unformed horses to develop the correct neck muscles (on top not underneath the neck) &amp; the back muscles.  I like it because there is never any "fixing" of the head, never any back-pull on the mouth, only pressure behind the pole which encourages the horse to drop &amp; stretch it's neck &amp; head.  However, it is possible that over-use with horses that are heavy in front could put the horse too much on the forehand. After the initial use of one lounge line to get the horse going round &amp; away from me in circles, I use 2 lounge lines, still on a circle.  I find I can control both the forehand &amp; quarters so much better, avoiding evasions such as falling in/out, turning in or turning right around on the "stiff" rein.  I only ever use side reins (very loosely) to prevent the horse eating (I only have a field to lunge in) &amp; not as a training aid.  I feel that they can encourage a horse to go behind the vertical &amp; lean on the hands.  Incidentally, I use the chambon &amp; lunge with a bitless bridle as that is what I ride in by preference.  I am retraining a young TB at present who is extremely sensitive to all tack/aids &amp; is inclined to panic so a bitless bridle is especially useful in his case.


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## PopStrop (1 May 2009)

I'm not a big fan of them, they have their uses in the right hands but when used incorrectly can cause a lot of damage.
I've known horses damage their backs through bucking with them on, and I spent some time working for an international dressage rider, who used a pessoa on a few horses, but only on the lowest setting and only in walk and trot, for the same reason.


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