# Low starch, alfalfa free conditioning feed?



## Ginn (28 February 2009)

As title says!

Could do with more condition without added fizz for my mare who is dropping quite a bit now workload has been upped considerably and feed must also support muscle growth as she *hopefully* will be muscling up more with increased work.

However, every time she has tried an alfalfa based feed she has become vile to handle and ride and seems to be completely intolerant to it so alfalfa based feeds are out (had though about Winergy until I realised it was alfalfa based!).

I'd also prefer something low starch and low energy as she has more than enough energy atm!

She currently gets a small scoop of Hoofkind and a glug of oil and is rising 5 so still growing (+ adlib good quality hay).

Have had her on Topspec Conditioning flakes in the past but she is feeling particularly "well" atm and I'm concerned it will give her energy she doesn't need but I have a suspicion the cereal free conditioning cubes have alfalfa in them??

Other thoughts are Equijewel or Outshine (or similar) but I'm loathed to try them if I can achieve the same effect with oil from the supermarket!!

Or possibly a linseed based nugget/meal??? 
	
	
		
		
	


	









ETA - she is also a fussy eater and will happily turn her nose up if she doesn't like what you put infront of her!


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## Chumsmum (28 February 2009)

My saddler swears by Outshine for condition and energy without fizz, she uses it on her youngster.

I used it when my pony lost weight in Autumn - it put the weight back on quickly. I can send you a sample if you want to try it if she is a fussy eater?


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## teddyt (28 February 2009)

Coolstance is a feed made from coconut. Its got a tiny amount of starch, less than 2% and is much cheaper than equijewel. Supplies energy from oil and fibre. Not sure about he protein levels.


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## TGM (28 February 2009)

You can't have a 'low energy', conditioning feed.  Calories = energy, and if you want to put condition on a horse you have to feed more calories (ie energy) than it will use up in day to day maintenance and exercise.  However, some feedstuffs (such as starches and sugars) seem to have an 'exciting' effect on some horses, so best to minimise these for a fizzy horse.

As you already know, oil is a good low starch, low sugar, yet high calorie feedstuff.  Advantages of straight oil is low cost - disadvantages can include that if feeding high amounts of oil (over about 400ml a day for average horse) then you are meant to add extra Vit E, selenium etc to the diet, also some horses find straight oil unpalatable.  Disadvantage of a high oil supplement such as Outshine is relatively high cost - advantages are improved palatibility and supplemented with Vit E, selenium etc.

Another useful food is unmolassed sugar beet - contains as many calories as some conditioning cubes, but low starch and only 5% sugar, so not as 'exciting' as molassed sugar beet (20% sugar).  

You might also want to consider a vit/min supplement or a balancer, depending on the quality of your hay and grazing.


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## Ginn (28 February 2009)

Chumsmum - thanks for the offer but I can get a sample through my feedmerchants. Nice to hear it adds condition without fizz.

Teddyt - Not heard of that before, will go have a google now.

TGM - yes, you're absolutely right regarding energy - I didn't phrase my original post very well. What I meant was "non exciteable" energy as you say, I don't want energy in terms of giving her more of it but completely agree about the calories. How can I tell on the feed packets how the energy is converted other than the blurb on the bag which I'm inclined to be very suspicious of!?

She is already getting a decent glug of oil (about a 1/4 mug per day) but couldn't persuade her to eat anymore even if I wanted to. She really dislikes "wet" food. Have tried her on speedibeet and unmolassed sugarbeet before but she'll turn her nose up unless very dry (which I'm disclined to do as I like to know its thoroughly soaked for obvious reasons) and I've found I've got fizz on it too. 

Never tried a supplement before as I'm not convinced they have any benefit unless the horse is lacking good forage - our grazing even for this time of year is excellent and hay is also beautiful (can't feed her hayledge as too much sugar for her and she is horrid and she won't eat soaked hay so our hay has to be good!). They also have access to a general mineral and vit lick all year round. However, my thinking is I can "supplement" her feed with protein and calories for muscle and condition??? And something like Outshine or Equijewel is aimed at this???

Normally she does well all year round on Hoofkind, oil, carrots and hay if stabled or when grazing is lacking but due to her age she has not had the sort of work she is now getting so while I hope that once the grass is through I can go back to this I feel she just needs a bit more - the problem is finding something that she'll both eat and not go loopy on.


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## teddyt (28 February 2009)

Non exciteable energy is slow release, such as from fibre and oil. The energy from cereals is from starch, this is digested and released quicker into the bloodstream, hence more likely to cause excitement. For example, Maize is actually higher in energy than oats but because the energy from oats is released quicker that is why they tend to cause excitability more than maize. It always makes me laugh that 'cool' mixes have maize in them, which has loads of energy. You are right to be suspicious of the marketing speak, cool mixes are a prime example!
As long as you ask the manufacturers the starch level and keep it as low as possible you should be minimising the increased risk of excitement. Hardly any put the starch level on the bag. Even feeds like calm and condition have around 20% starch.


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## TGM (1 March 2009)

Here is a post I did a while ago about feed labels - might be useful to you:

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/3675893/an/0/page/0

Does sound like something like Outshine or Equijewel would be a good choice for you - Outshine is a cheaper source of calories than Equijewel as it has a higher calorie content (24 MJDE/kg).  It does use heat-processed wheat as a base for the oil, but the heat process helps break down the starch and it is fed in such small quantities it probably doesn't add a lot to the overall starch levels.


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## Horseman99 (1 March 2009)

Underfed horses first use up fat, then break down muscle to provide the energy required to keep them alive!!!. Muscle consists of protein. Proteins consist of amino acids. All animals require a daily supply of suitable quality protein (must contain enough essential amino acids, e.g. lysine, methionine,etc). Hard working or growing animals have a much greater need for good quality protein than those resting. 
The best readily available vegetable protein sources in the U. K. are linseed and soya, and are used in better quality compound feeds and supplements. Even these products sometimes need supplementing with extra protein.
You can achieve this by adding linseed or soya to existing feed. Both need cooking before they can be safely fed. Whole linseed has traditionally been boiled to provide a protein supplement. This process is time consuming and messy. Its analysis is 23% protein; 35% oil 0.9% lysine.
Soya is a better option. It is only available cooked, either as Hipro (with most of the oil extracted) or as full fat soya meal or pellets (the whole bean cooked and ground). Respective analyses are Hipro: 40-45% protein; 1.6% oil; 3.2% lysine and FFsoya: 35% protein; 18% oil 2.9% lysine.

Neither linseed nor soya are readily available through the retail feed trade. If your merchant can't source it you will have to use Google and go mail-order. There are several firms supplying both products in various sizes &amp; prices. For underweight horses resting or in light work it may be more cost-effective to buy a cheap economy type nut or mix and supplement it with some high quality protein to restore lost muscle.

Training and exercise will help develop muscles and stamina, but you have to provide adequate feed first!


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## Maggie2 (1 March 2009)

Cheap economy type feeds are usually high in starch.  Ask any feed company the levels if you want to be certain, but A and P Calm and Condition is about 19%, and Baileys Economy Mix is, I believe, well over 20% starch, to take 2 examples.

It is easy enough to source micronised linseed from Charnwood Milling, 25kg delivered is about £29


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## tabithakat64 (1 March 2009)

Outshine or Equijewel would be a good choice as TGM suggested, Fast Fibre or Fibrebeet are great too but I can't remember if either have alfalfa in.


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## Maggie2 (1 March 2009)

I'm sure neither of them do.  

But they work out much more expensive, EJ is about £35 for 20 kg and at 1kg a day as recommended (although I don't think you'd need that much in reality unless horse seriously underweight) would last 3 weeks, so £12 a week.


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## HollyP (1 March 2009)

My mare is now on EJ and looking fantastic, bloody expensive though (altho my yard gets it in for £30 a bag) she is on 2 mugs though....i will cut this down to 1 once she is nice a fat! 
	
	
		
		
	


	





she is on mollichaff, livery nuts and speedibeet oh and magical pinkpowder! 
	
	
		
		
	


	





EJ is a good buy and im glad iv done it!


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## hellybelly6 (1 March 2009)

Hoofkind contains alfalfa!!!!

I know this as my horse cant have alfalfa either.  I have done extensive feed research on this.

Mollychaff and fast fibre are alfalfa free.  Also watch out for alfalfa in horse treats and supplements.

My horse has fast fibre and mollychaff.  Its natural at this time of year for horses to loose a bit of weight, so dont panic, but you could consider sugarbeet.  If you feed 1 kg of fast fibre, you wont need a supplement.


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## marissa (2 March 2009)

I've not tried it but i hear very good reports on Allen and page's power and performance. It contains NO barley,molasses or alfalfa but is suposed to increase energy levels with out fizzing up. I'm not to sure on it's wieght gaining properties but might be worth looking into.


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## PennyJ (2 March 2009)

Fibrebeet has alfalfa in...


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## Maggie2 (3 March 2009)

A and P Power and Perf. is Alfa free, but at 22% starch I'd say it was high enough to cause trouble in a horse that can't cope with starchy feeds.  I wouldn't consider it for mine.

Micronised Linseed from Charnwood Milling at £28 delivered for 25kg is the way to go for weight gain and no starch.  Even EJ and Outshine are both 18% starch.


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## KatB (3 March 2009)

I use A+P Power and performance as it is alot lower in starch than some "like for like" conditioning feeds, and certainly isnt "high" in starch. I used Calm and Condition before which would certainly be worth trying with Tilly, although they do recoomend you soak it...although a mare on our yard who hates wet feed loved it as we soaked it and left it to swell completely before feeding it so it wasnt "wet".


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## Maggie2 (3 March 2009)

Maybe it is lower than some similar feeds, I'm not sayng it isn't.

But if the OP has issues with starch in the horses diet, and asks for low starch feeds then I personally don't think a 22% feed is what she needs.


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## KatB (3 March 2009)

Sorry Maggie2, QR, wasnt replying directly to you. If you look at alot of the "high fibre" feeds though, alot of those have a higher starch rate than it may seem on first glance


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## sleepingdragon10 (3 March 2009)

If you're looking for weightgain then fast fibre WILL NOT fit the bill. It's a low calorie maintenance feed for good doers.


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## X0XbringitonX0X (4 March 2009)

Ive used Spillers conditioning cubes, which are low in starch and I dont think they have any alfafa in. My horse is a fizzy TB type, anything fizzes him up, and he seems to be ok on these. It doesnt seem to make a difference to his exitability. They have kept the weight on him really well this winter. I highly recomend them!


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