# URGENT Cruciate Ligament Surgery



## Amymay (26 July 2016)

Can anyone give me an idea of costs involved in surgery??


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## Swirlymurphy (26 July 2016)

Mine had a TPLO op about 5 years ago - I think it was about £4k then but it was very early days.  Can your practice not give you any idea?


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## MurphysMinder (26 July 2016)

Your vet is the best person to tell you,  as it depends which type of surgery is carried out    Hope Daisy is ok ?


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## Amymay (26 July 2016)

Not Daisy thank God.  But unfortunately my step daughters Bichon who is uninsured.


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## s4sugar (26 July 2016)

Worth phoning round.


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## Amymay (26 July 2016)

I'm just after an idea.  I'm in work at the moment - but it needs a family powwow


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## planete (26 July 2016)

It can vary from £1500 to £3500.  You really need to know what type of operation the dog would need and whether the cheaper option is likely to work.  Depending on the severity of the damage small dogs can sometimes get better with rest and conservative treatment so worth trying first perhaps if vet agrees?


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## MurphysMinder (26 July 2016)

I'd still recommend asking the vet.  However , I think sometimes with small dogs a possible alternative to surgery is cage rest, it depends how badly the cruciate is damaged .


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## Amymay (26 July 2016)

Brilliant.  Thanks both.


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## blackcob (26 July 2016)

Really rough figures - a TTA or TPLO can be had for around 2k, we have an orthopaedic specialist who does them in-house, a referral centre is likely to charge more like 3k. A leader line/lateral suture for a small dog would be around £800. There's a few more techniques I'm not familiar with. In a small dog and depending on the severity of the injury conservative management might be possible.


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## Clodagh (26 July 2016)

M-in-law has 2 borders, one had the op and one didn't. The rested one got better quicker and easier than the operated one, so worth looking at. You have to be really strict though. Hope it is soon OK.


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## TheOldTrout (26 July 2016)

MurphysMinder said:



			I'd still recommend asking the vet.  However , I think sometimes with small dogs a possible alternative to surgery is cage rest, it depends how badly the cruciate is damaged .
		
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One of our Jack Russells had a cruciate ligament injury and it was treated with anti-inflammatories - I'd say 'and rest' but that dog didn't do resting! The vet said at the time that surgery was more for larger dogs and smaller ones could be treated with medication.


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## Amymay (26 July 2016)

It's great to know that non surgical is an option.  Thanks all for your input.  Little dog is not insured so whilst i can give them the money for the diagnostics tomorrow  (sedation,  xrays etc) I don't have 3k to handover for surgery.


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## wren123 (26 July 2016)

My friends border collie did first one and then the other cruciate ligament. She has recovered well without surgery (on vets advice) and we see her often on her daily five mile off lead walk.


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## Amymay (26 July 2016)

Brilliant Wren x


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## kizzyjerry (26 July 2016)

Both my gsd's have had this. Both with complications after surgery, had they been smaller I'd would have seriously considered non surgical route. There's a lot of information if you Google conservative management. There are also braces that can help which you'll come across - we tried some of the 'off the shelf ' ones -wasn't impressed with them so if u go that route let me know and ill get the makes of the ones we've tried. I think the ones made from X-Ray measurements are the best.

Surgery £2200 (self referral, tta with titanium wedge)


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## Bellasophia (27 July 2016)

amymay said:



			It's great to know that non surgical is an option.  Thanks all for your input.  Little dog is not insured so whilst i can give them the money for the diagnostics tomorrow  (sedation,  xrays etc) I don't have 3k to handover for surgery.
		
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Re non surgery..this option for smaller sized dogs is relevant when the tear has just started...rest and antiinflammatories can be successful IF the tear is slight.
Once the damage is more advanced then surgery is the way to go.
I've been through this op twice with my ( now deceased) dogue de Bordeaux mastiff..
At one year she had the tplo surgery...was fairly successful for two years,then she started to limp again on affected leg...we paid about 1000 pounds,twenty years ago.
We flew her back from USA  to Italy and sent her to the same specialist who had done the first op....
Sadly my girl died the next day due to complications( embolism) .
I'd try the rest and antiinflammatories option first,but get the dog into surgery if no real improvement after a month...the fact this is a small breed increases the chances of a good recovery ..good luck! 
The recovery time is difficult,you HAVE to be really committed to seeing it through and not letting the dog off lead,no jumping...just walk outs for wees etc..and keep your resolve...if you don't ,the op will be worthless and you are back at square one.


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## Dobiegirl (27 July 2016)

I know several little dogs that went for the cage rest followed by hydrotherapy, they all recovered. If my Dobermann hadnt been a big dog I would have plumped for this as well but he had his op a couple of years ago and they actually had a special offer on it, if memory serves me correct it was between £1,200-£1,500 This offer was for dogs under 40kg, he was 39k and he was Insured .


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## Amymay (27 July 2016)

Just a quick update. The cruciate is ruptered unfortunately,  but in the first instance total house rest and inflamatories have been prescribed for two months.

I'm not hopeful to be honest on the outcome. The dog is grossly overweight,  and whilst my step daughters mum adores her I have my doubts on how committed she'll be to the management needed. And she can't afford surgery. So it's a waiting game.

This gorgeous little dog is the reason why we have Daisy. We loved (love) Scarlet like our own and wanted to bring her with us when we moved down here.  But for obvious reasons we weren't able too.  So we got our own Bichon.

My partners kids came over at the weekends whilst we were still in Cardiff and always brought Scarlet with them to stay. When they no longer came every weekend we'd still go and collect little Scuzzy, and take her away on hols with us as well.  Since we moved away her weight has ballooned, and despite strong words no real attempt has ever been made to address it.  And the end result is a ruptered cruciate. I'm so cross and upset about the whole thing, but I've done what I can.

So, please everyone, healing vibes for the little Scuzz Bum.


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## wren123 (27 July 2016)

Fingers crossed for a full recovery for Scuzz Bum.
My friends with the Border Collie are away at the moment on Exmoor with lots of walks which their dog manages fine. She has honestly recovered well and she is quite a good sized Collie, not fat but quite sturdily built. With her cost wasn't an issue with not operating I think the vet said something along the lines of in his view rest and anti inflamatories can be as good as an operation, my friends are devoted to their animals and certainly wouldn't have gone for this option to save money. As you said such a shame about the extra weight, hopefully the vet has given them a good lecture on it.


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## Cinnamontoast (28 July 2016)

Fully ruptured is unlikely to heal with rest, especially as the dog is so overweight. Getting the weight off will be hard if the dog is being rested, of course. Hydro would be my first thought. This is an expensive option, frankly.

Jake's TPLO over 7 years ago was £3000. Unfortunately, the vet warned us that the second one is likely to also rupture. It did. First one was paid for by insurance, second one wasn't as the insurers said it was a 'pre-existing condition'.


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## JennBags (28 July 2016)

Agree with CT, if it's fully ruptured and she's grossly overweight, it's unlikely to heal without surgery.

Our Westie has ruptured both cruciates. With the second one, I discussed the non-surgical option with the vet but she said as it was badly ruptured and not just a tear it was very unlikely to heal. The first one took a long time to fully heal, however the second one was much quicker - apparently very common as the owners already know what to expect and don't let the dog out too early (which is what we did, and many others do!).  I don't think the surgery was anything like £3k though.

Cage rest has to mean cage rest, you can't "feel sorry" for them and let them out before they are healed.  Hydrotherapy is fantastic for them once the worst is over. 

Healing vibes for little Scuzz Bum.


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## Amymay (28 July 2016)

Spoke to partners ex last night. Surgery has been recommended.  So we've put the money in place for this to happen on the vets recommendation.

Thanks again everyone for your help and advice.


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## Bellasophia (28 July 2016)

You're a good soul amymay..I hope she has a good recovery..and definitely stress for them to cut back on the food...I've had my little schnauzer on a reduction of food  and no treats for some months now and she's definitely looking more svelte( she put on weight after her spay ) I was surprised just how small a portion is needed for a little dog,after years of having  larger breeds.My hub was the hardest to convince  we weren't starving the dog,but he sees the results now and is on board.


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## Amymay (28 July 2016)

They've quoted £1k for the surgery, so significantly less than anticipated. That I can manage, the rest is up to them xx


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## Nettle123 (28 July 2016)

amymay said:



			They've quoted £1k for the surgery, so significantly less than anticipated. That I can manage, the rest is up to them xx
		
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We had a couple of cruciate repairs maybe 10 years ago and they came in at around £500 each. One was a rott the other a lab. £1000 sounds a good deal. Vets fees have increased scarily and I do think insurance is essential now although we never had it in the past.

One of our dogs had treatment for a piece of bone wedged in her oesophagus over the weekend. The vet bill is just over £4000.  Thank goodness for Tesco pet insurance.


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## Aru (28 July 2016)

If they don't get the weight under control then it is only a matter of time before the second cruciate goes especially if the dog isn't adequately rested in recovery and starts to rely on the "good" leg,placing it under more pressure. 

How overweight is she? Is she crate trained? 
This is usually a 6 week recovery and strict cage rest post op.
If they will not do this you may be wasting their time,your money and putting the dog through a operation that may not be successful.

I hope they are getting the "talk" as we call it at work (no one likes being told they are killing their dog with kindness) but it needs to be done especially before these sort if surgeries when the risks are so high for complications in the longterm.

Any idea what sort of surgery is planned? 1k seems a bit to cheap for a tta or tplo. lateral suture? the lateral suture has lower success rates then some of the others but is often a better option then rest alone and is less invasive then the more orthopaedic based ops,its usually a decent option for a small dog.

massive healing vibes for her and for you op its a tough situation to have to watch.


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## Amymay (28 July 2016)

Aru, vet was very plain talking yesterday apparently, and spelt out the impact of her weight and that if it wasn't addressed now then they ate looking at an uncertain future for her.  More or less what I said last year - have a dead fat dog, or a live, slim, healthy one. It's been a massive wake up call for them.

But, apart from putting my hand in my pocket I've really done what I can.

As regards price, yes it does seem very reasonable, but as I'm not there to discuss what the surgery will involve with the vet I don't know what kind of op they're performing.

She's not crate trained, but I've told them to get one any way.


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## Aru (28 July 2016)

The crate will not be popular with the dog but at this stage she needs the cage rest so the time for slow introductions is over. Definately it should help with confinement.
I'm sorry for the 20 questions,I do tend to end up going into work mode as autopilot. I realise shes not your dog and you may not know the answers. 

Good luck! Hopefully this will be the wakeup call that was needed.


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## Tyssandi (28 July 2016)

amymay said:



			Can anyone give me an idea of costs involved in surgery??
		
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was not cheap and he was not insured    but we got our NI done, we took him to water treadmill after but it was a success, and he had  a time on house rest for about 10 days


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## Amymay (28 July 2016)

Aru,  questions are good.  Because it means I can ask them forward xx


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## Honey08 (28 July 2016)

I'm late to this discussion, but wanted to say that my biggest lab damaged her cruciate ligament at Blenheim last year.  She was 9 and uninsured.  We had her xrayed and it showed a lot of arthritic changes in both legs, and the vet suggested not operating.  We rested her all winter, never crated, but not off the lead, and just gentle pooters in the garden.  After Xmas we started v short lead walks, and allowed her off in the field to potter about.  By Spring she was trotting sound and starting to chase the other dogs.  By summer she is trotting and cantering.  We only do short walks, usually only half to one mile, and more slowly.  Occasionally we do longer walks if we are out for the day, but we'd rest her a few days afterwards.  She is on metacam (a low dose) daily and we got her very slim (she wasn't ever huge).  I thought it would be so hard slimming a lab, but it's been fine.  She looks so well and gets lots of compliments.

When she first went lame I kicked myself we hadn't insured her and would have paid it myself, but with hindsight I'm glad we went down the route we did.  She's like a semi retired horse out to pasture with the occasional hack.  She's great how well she's done, even the vet is pleased with her.  Obviously she has a slight wobble to her leg when she walks, and she sits with her leg out sideways.


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