# Symptoms of Brain Tumor



## Shiraz (14 January 2008)

What are the symptoms of a brain tumor in horses?

Thank you


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## piebaldsparkle (14 January 2008)

Lack of Coordination, nose bleeds.  Probably more but that is what the pony up the yard showed.


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## Stasha22 (14 January 2008)

My horse suffered from a disease called Maries disease a few years ago which caused massive swelling on her brain and menigitis and sadly she was PTS. 

Her symptoms were nose bleeds and pressing her head against walls, almost head banging. She lost control of her co-ordination and was very wobbly.

Pretty horrific.


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## Shilasdair (14 January 2008)

It all depends on which structure the tumour affects....common ones affect the pituitary which causes Cushings syndrome and laminitis.
I have known different types...but there was no common thread apart from all of the horses demonstrated atypical and apparently irrational behaviour.
S


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## emma_lg (14 January 2008)

I lost my previous mare to suspected brain tumour...she was head banging, thrashing around intermittently not constantly...when her bloods came back her liver was going in to failure and nothing would ease her 'fits'...she started on Monday and she was pts on the Thursday.
She looked beautiful and as if nothing was wrong with her.


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## jojoebony (14 January 2008)

My pony would just go mental - first time I knew something was up was when we did a 20 mile fun ride in gallop because I just couldn't stop her (of course didn't know why at the time), she didn't even break a sweat which although she was fairly fit was a clear sign that something was up.  
She then started having nosebleeds and then having seizures which left her totally paralysed for up to 15 minutes at a time - not sure how long this was going on.  When at it's peak she had 3 within a one hour period.  She'd just seem very subdued or even relaxed afterwards with her bottom lip drooping.
She also started producing milk.
Ebony looked a picture of health when I finally said my goodbyes.


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## Shiraz (14 January 2008)

Oh god...Thank you for your replies and sorry to all who have lost horses. 

My arab has always been a "stress head" and weaved but recently it's turned manic. It was so bad on Friday am that she was actually banging the left side of her had against the door frame. She was frantic and just totally wound up to high doe for no reason at all. All the other horses were still in and there was no change to her routing. When mum was leading her out Shiraz jumped on my mum and she is always sooo careful around people you could trust her with a child. 

I've had someone else riding her but when I went to take her out last Monday night she didn't look like she was moving right in front, it eased off so put it down to age (nearly 21), stiffness, weakness/being so unfit, narrow chested/toe in and that the farrier had left her a bit toe long. 

She had the signs of a very small nosebleed out her left nostril only (bloody mucus) on Sat am, Sun am and Sun pm.

She's always used me as a bit of a scratching post mainly when I remove her bridle after work and she's sweaty but the past month or so when I catch them in the field she's started almost headbutting me. I catch my 3 at the same time but as soon as I get anywhere near her she tries to rub/hit her head on me?? I was kinda putting it down to impatience/bad manners but all the little things are starting to add up. 

I haven't noticed her producing milk or any change in her teats. 

I got her blood tested last April as she dropped off quite quickly over a few days (had a long weekend away and she was left in mum's care but looked ill when I got back - put it all back on within a couple of days) but anyway the bloods came back totally normal?

I haven't seen an seizure type things.

I'll call the vet, she's not insured and is a 21yo stress head. Do they have to go to the local vet hosp to get scanned or is it something that my vet should be able to help with?

Thank you again for your help

Jill x


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## Stasha22 (14 January 2008)

Poor you. My sympathies are with you, I know what a horrible time you must be having. I think you most definately need to get your vet out asap. I'm not sure if you horse would need to be referred to a hospital or not. If you have a good vet they may be able to advise on the symptoms alone.

My mare was admitted to hospital straight away as she was in such a bad way and after a few tests, I was told she had brain damage and would not get better so she was PTS that afternoon. Post mortem found tumours on pretty much every major organ in her body along with meningitis, but this was caused by the Maries disease.

Good luck and fingers crossed for you.


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## Guinness (14 January 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
Poor you. My sympathies are with you, I know what a horrible time you must be having. I think you most definately need to get your vet out asap. I'm not sure if you horse would need to be referred to a hospital or not. If you have a good vet they may be able to advise on the symptoms alone.

My mare was admitted to hospital straight away as she was in such a bad way and after a few tests, I was told she had brain damage and would not get better so she was PTS that afternoon. Post mortem found tumours on pretty much every major organ in her body along with meningitis, but this was caused by the Maries disease.

Good luck and fingers crossed for you. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Could you give me some more info about that disease? We have a foal at work at the moment with suspected meningitis (symptoms similar to those mentioned above) although she seems to be on the road to recovery.


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## Stasha22 (14 January 2008)

Of course, what do you need to know? I'll tell you Elli's story and if you need more info let me know.

Started with a strange bony growth on her foreleg which quickly made her lame. Vet x-rayed and thought she had a fracture. 6 months of box rest later she had a lot more bony growths, now on both forelegs but not so lame. Referred to the RVC who diagnosed Maries disease. It is incredibly rare, at the time (3 years ago) there where only 20 documented cases. Ellie was number 21. Prognosis is poor, all 20 horses had died/been PTS. 

As she was well in herself and not in any pain, I decided to bring her home and turn her out for the summer so that she could have some happy time. No problems at all apart from occasional nose bleeds and more bony growths, now on all legs. After about 5 months she became a bit quiet and subdued and started to move a bit strangely, but not lame. This lasted for a few days. One morning I came to feed her and she couldn't move. We managed to get her to the field shelter while waiting for the vet and she started banging her head against the wall and having nose bleeds.

Vet arrived and said she was tying up. I said what utter nonsense ad referred myself to the RVC. Brave girl managed to get on the lorry and I travelled with her, trying to help her balance as she had now begun to lose her coordination.

They carried out a few tests, including checking the spinal fluid (showed meningitis) but I can't really remember all the details as I was in shock and distraught.

The vets said that the disease was now taking over her body (which was expected, we just didn't know how long it would take) and she had severe meningitis which had given her brain damage. She was PTS and the post mortem found massive tumours on her heart, lungs, kidney etc (pretty much every major organ) along with a massive swelling on her brain caused by the meningitis.

I'm in tears writing this as it is bringing everything back and I am remebering what a lovely, brave girl Ellie was. I sincerely hope that your foal does not have this horrific disease as they do not survive it. I was lucky to have had Ellie for 5 months after diagnosis.

If you have any doubts, mention Maries disease to your vet. The problem is that as it is so rare, not many vets have even heard of it, let alone know how to recognise the symptoms. You could always call the RVC, my vet there was called Gayle but I am not sure if she still works there.


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## kerilli (14 January 2008)

Shiraz, please get the vet asap, and for the meantime, please please do not (you or anyone else) handle the horse, or let anyone else. please leave her out in the field (if that's where she is) with a friend, and just feed her there. 
horses can go blind/crazy with the pain, and half a ton of horse that really doesn't know what it is doing with its body, nor care, is very dangerous. even just leading them around puts you in real danger.
very sorry, but i've seen and heard of some very nasty things happening with horses with brain and spine tumours. not their fault, obviously.
very very best of luck, hope you find some answers very quickly.


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## emma_lg (14 January 2008)

I am so sorry your horse doesn't sound very well...I hope you find some answers and get some help quickly.
If you do suspect this don't ride her.
The vet I had at the time said it was amazing my mare hadn't had one with me on her...I rode her that morning and she had her first in the afternoon. In between attacks she seemed totally fine but then got slightly dozy with the drugs...it all happened so quickly...she really wouldnt have known what she was doing if she had caught me in the middle of one.


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## the watcher (14 January 2008)

The symptoms you describe can also be attributed to nerve damage towards the top of the neck, causing pain to the facial nerves (where the 'head pressing' comes in), there is a rarely used surgical procedure to release the nerve but in my experience the result is 50/50 and the recovery period is months of steroids and box rest - which would probably be very unkind for your horse (it's also specialist and hugely expensive)


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## Shiraz (14 January 2008)

Thanks, have called the vet but he's out testing all day so I've to call back after 9 tomorrow. 

She's out during the day but in a night. She's out with a H/W rug on but it's freezing her and pouring with rain. She's a 21yo arab; I don't think I could leave her out in this as there is no field shelter (they have a big hedge for the wind etc). Sorry I know that's probably really stupid and pathetic of me.


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## Guinness (14 January 2008)

Thanks for the info. Luckily doesnt sound like what ours has. (Shes Arab as well by the way). She didnt show any signs of bleeding or lumps on her legs. She started off just being a little stiff in her hind quarters, lethargic and just not right. Literally overnight she went from that to falling over, spinning, walking in circles, legs crossing over, running into walls etc. At the worse of it she got really bad muscle spasms and was stuck with her head and neck twisted round to her belly. Looks like she is over the worst of it now, we are just worried about potenial brain damange. So sorry to hear about your horse, its very distressing to see them like that.


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## Box_Of_Frogs (14 January 2008)

Shiraz - the symptoms you describe could also be terminal regwort poisoning. Loss of appetite, uncoordinated, banging head on walls, listless, unwillling to move, self harm and harm to owners. Ragwort poisoning can be invisible at first and may have happened years before the present owner of the horse but it is cumulative. I would have expected significant liver damage to be found on a blood test but maybe they weren't looking for it? Not sounding good but like kerilli says, please take great care around her as she may not know what she is doing and you, she or both of you could get seriously injured.


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## meandmyself (15 January 2008)

I'm so sorry- sounds like an awful situation. I hope you get an answer.


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## emma_lg (15 January 2008)

Jeez..laying in bed last night thinking about this...and had a horrible thought.
The mare I have now is a 'stressy' type...and she has been doing things which are strange...she will dash off when being led like a bullet and just runs - will go past her field not even too it. She is dashing out of her box when you go in there...she has to be led in a bridle and still you cant hold her. She can just flatten you...and bearing in mind she is normally one to avoid you at all costs. Its like a blind panic. she can dash through the gate regardless of you or anything else.

A couple of months ago she had a slight nose bleed too...her teats swelled up in 2006 for no apparent reason.
Now I am thinking if she has something...I have considered she is going senile but was really only tongue-in-cheek...but now my brain is ticking.


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## kerilli (15 January 2008)

Sparrow, get her checked out by the vet, please. I can't stress too much how dangerous these poor horses are when they are suffering from something like this - if your mare is running from the pain then "blind panic" is right. Please don't ride her (or even lead her if you can help it) until a vet has, hopefully, set your mind at rest. best of luck.
fwiw i saw a pony with a brain tumour (undiagnosed at that point) go berserk and then rear and go over backwards on the rider (causing severe injuries) a long time ago.


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## merlinsquest (15 January 2008)

I have known but not owned 2 with brain tumours..... one was a riding school pony years ago.... used to bolt for no reason and looked like a complete toastrack.... the other used to rear over backwards, again donkeys years ago, so as I was a child then  the other symptoms have long since evaporated from my memory (or were not there in the first place)!

So sorry to hear you have such a poorly pony....{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{ hugs and vibes to help you both }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}


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## emma_lg (15 January 2008)

So sorry...didnt mean to hijack thread...it just seems a bit of coincidence reading through and then thinking about my mare that I have now. 
Not the same as my previous mare but then hers was such a sudden downfall within 4 days and she never showed any symptoms until then.
Thanks Kerilli....My mare is having to stay in at the moment due to lymphangitis (which she isnt coping great with - only been two days) - vet is back out Thursday/Friday I think I will ask about it, instead of thinking I am being silly.


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## vatican (18 January 2008)

Don't know if this is relevant but I was talking to someone who's horse had a suspected brain tumour before Christmas.  Symptoms were initially the horse was walking around staring at the sky looking spaced out and then in the evening the horse was found in the stable backed right up with its backside halfway up the wall, down on its knees smashing its forehead into the ground.  Turned out that the horse had been ACP'd for dentist, then the farrier, then for clipping all in one week and it was 'tripping' on an ACP overdose.  It was injected via an IV every 6 hours with an 'anti-dote' for ages (took 55 vials!) before it was ok.  Don't know if you've been sedating your horse for anything but this should serve as a warning to those that feed ACP pills like polos!


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## Shiraz (18 January 2008)

Thanks for all your replies. 

I had the vet out on Wednesday and while it wasn't the best news in the world it wasn't the worst either.

He scoped her and she has a growth up her left nostril. This is what has caused the slight bleeds (no more since the ones I mentioned at the weekend) and the vet reckons because of the positioning of this growth more blood is going up/back her head and this could be causing headaches which would explain the frantic behaviour and change of character.

If she was a young valuable horse they could remove it but as it's very invasive, she's 21 and there is a lot of blood to tie off we are going to leave as is. The vet said she can come back into work and carry on as normal but just to be aware there might be a slight bleed after fast work. 

It's a slow growing growth but it is growing so eventually it will cause a problem so before it causes her any pain I'll get her pts. For now she will be fine on a low dose of danolin.  The vet has no idea how long she has (how long is a piece of string was his reply) but said I'll know when she's had enough or when the bleed become more frequent (every other day) or heavier. 

I checked her teats and was cleaning them on the Tues night and it must have been an itchy spot so she was standing on 3 legs with one hind cocked in the air and her top lip in the air so I think her co-ordination is fine! lol

In reply to a previous post about ragwart: I suspected that she'd had mild ragwart poisoning before we bought her as she is extremely photosensitive so I got that checked in her bloods and the liver reading was fine. I guess it's just the way she is. 

Thanks for all your answers and help. 

I hope your horse is ok Sparrow and sorry to hear about everyone else who has lost horses to this xx


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## stacey schultz (3 September 2010)

Hi to all,

I'm from Queensland in Australia, i've just been reading everyones posts, regarding their horse that could have a brain tumor.
I have a much loved 26 yo pony who looks to be healthy, but is showing signs of weakness in the hind legs, stiffness, large eyes, backing up and falling over as if got a fright,lost of weight fast but puts it back on and he's acting as if its hard to breath at times with mouth open and very touchy along his back and neack and would rather me not rug or brush him, wich to me is not normal for him,
This has been going on for 2 weeks now, the vet seem to think it's a brain tumor, and am waiting on bloods to come back, if their is more white blood cells than red, well then he has a tumor...
I'd love to know if it could be something other and a tumor,
maybe he's picked up something from wildlife urine ect on the grass,
 I just dont know and i've never seen anything like this in horse or pony..
Vet's seems to think he's in a small amount of pain, so we are looking at getting him PTS if things look to bad for him, after bloods get back next week of cource. 
DOSE ANYONE HAVE ANY ADVICE, as i'd hate to make the wrong choice if its not a tumor.

Regards stacey, all replys welcome.


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## traceyann (3 September 2010)

I had a very good friend who had a ex police horse this horse was bombproof and i mean that  one day she took him for a ride all of a sudden bolted and ran straight into a double decker bus killing her and him instantly he had brain tumour never any signs before and i used to hack out with them but couldnt that morning i lost a good friend that day


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## sammiea (3 September 2010)

OMG traceyann thats aweful!!

I am currently going through a situation with my horse, she has over the last 6/7mths been having "episodes" and I can not find any pattern to it and since thay have now been happening whilst NOT being ridden I have decided to get the vet, she is coming Monday to start investigations.

My mare is highly strung and over the years have probably put it down to this but now I see a different side of her... eg hacking out the other week... been out an hour she'd been really good then all of a sudden she stopped in the road look behind her then looked forward again and "flipped out" reared up, leapt forward bucked and went to take off with me... luckily i mangaed to sat on and dismount in a panic and got hold of her and she started settling down, i ended up leading her the 3miles home.
Last sunday we were at a show, she loves going out and always has been an angel and will stand on the box all day you wouldnt even know she was there... not sunday she was fine all day bar one "episdoe" where she flipped out on the lorry.

There are many more "episdoes" too many to list but having owned her for 8yrs I know her inside out and know that these "episodes" are normal to her.

Help!!


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## horsecrazy25 (3 September 2010)

So sorry to hear that people have lost there horses!! <<Hugs>>

Just wondering are the nose bleeds massive? And do they come just randomly e.g. at a show? 

Tracey - So so so sorry to hear about your friend and horse!! <<Hugs>> x


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## Tinseltoes (4 September 2010)

Box_Of_Frogs said:



			Shiraz - the symptoms you describe could also be terminal regwort poisoning. Loss of appetite, uncoordinated, banging head on walls, listless, unwillling to move, self harm and harm to owners. Ragwort poisoning can be invisible at first and may have happened years before the present owner of the horse but it is cumulative. I would have expected significant liver damage to be found on a blood test but maybe they weren't looking for it? Not sounding good but like kerilli says, please take great care around her as she may not know what she is doing and you, she or both of you could get seriously injured.
		
Click to expand...


I lost a pony with that and its aweful.Not a pretty site.She was PTS.


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