# Hardstanding in winter: what area do you have?



## Scot123 (29 January 2013)

Hello - following on from a post of mine several months ago when my ponies were new to their field and it wasn't yet a smelly bog 2 ft deep and I was wondering if grass mats would keep it grassy (ha ha to that! The mats have long ago sunk into the mire) Do any of you keep your horses permanently on a small area of hardstanding in the winter? And if so, what sort of area do you have? Mine are so miserable in about 3 acres of mud that I think for next year, surely a small area that's not so terrible, being fed copious amounts of hay, would be a better option?? What are the thoughts?!


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## MiJodsR2BlinkinTite (29 January 2013)

Mmm, know what you mean.

I'm very lucky in that I am able to keep my two at home, and I'm even luckier in that I do have a small area of hard standing (concrete) for them to stand on when its wet like this. 

The area concerned used to be the holding area for a dairy herd, so would be about 10yds square I would think (can't be precise). Its a very useful little area which I'd normally only use as a "holding cell" for stuff like vets/farrier visits, but at the moment I'm tending to shove up a couple of hay-nets up (double or even triple layered to make it last longer and keep them busy ). 

A few years ago we spent a bit on bog-proofing the gateways in the fields the livery uses (however, where my two are is like the proverbial bog as its the wetter part of the farm). 

The only downside is the expense of having to feed hay/lage all the time plus they've been getting a bit fizzy as although they can walk around they can't really have a good hoon.

BUT the way the weather is looking they're probably gonna be out there again tomorrow and possibly till the weekend. 

I try to do one day in the "pen", and alternate it with a day of turnout, but see no point in turning them out into a swamp TBH - this weather is just awful for pulling off shoes (and taking part of the hoof with it as often as not).

Have never experimented with putting down an artificial surface like grass-mats, so probably not much help.


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## Coop (29 January 2013)

We have a strip area of hardstanding running along along our double gateway entrance into the field. 

We have a double width of big field gates with an area of about 35ft long and roughly 14ft deep. 

We started doing it in the summer with a layer or rubble thats quite deep and never had time to get the second layer of planings down, then it got wet .

We had a load of grass mats already from another area and one day I got so fed up with having to take haylage across the muddy fields to find a dry patch (ours out 24/7) that I put all the grass mats on the rubble, cabled tied them together, and brought a load more from endurance mats. The whole area of rubble is covered in the mats (we must have 30 ish) and 3 get fed on there 2 or 3 times a day and apart from one wet area the area has held up incredibly. It has saved me this winter! I will try and get a picture. 

We are having planings done it about 6 weeks but will most likely to continue to put mats over the top as one of ours in unshod and they are grippy in wet, mud and snow, believe me.

Having done this now after all these years it really is the best thing we have done! We have put several heavy duty posts in now to hang up haynets in the day and they have a pile of haylage at night fed on the surface.

If you want a pic I will pm you. The whole area has been built by girls too


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## mulberrymill (29 January 2013)

I have a very large concrete yard in the middle of all my barns, about 150 foot long by about 50 foot wide. The fields are all swamps now, and the Shetlands are actually getting stuck, so they all run rampage in the yard. They help themselves to hay as the hay barn is open to one side of this main yard. Just have to remember to close the feed room door , but they happily stay out there for several hours. We leave the pony barn open for them in case somebody wants to go in for quiet time. Poo picking on the yard is a darn sight easier than the swamp.


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## HardySoul1 (29 January 2013)

Ooh I need similar advice. 
Coop your set up sounds what I need. Please can you PM me a photo too, and any specifics about what you used and brand etc. Thanks!


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## Coop (29 January 2013)

Endurance mats, on eBay or online are by far the best and cheapest and I tried 3 different companies, some I got were brittle from another company or slow delivery. Will get pics tmoro, as mulberrryhill says, far easier poo picking than walking across the field with them all like vultures following you!


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## chrissie1 (30 January 2013)

Coop said:



			Endurance mats, on eBay or online are by far the best and cheapest and I tried 3 different companies, some I got were brittle from another company or slow delivery. Will get pics tmoro, as mulberrryhill says, far easier poo picking than walking across the field with them all like vultures following you!
		
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I just went to ebay and asked for Endurance Mats, theey were £45 each, are these the ones, or could you possibly add the link on here please?  Would they be suitable (as well as over hardstanding in field) to go over hardcore in a loading area, or would they slide around if the horse said 'sod that I'm going to pee about' at the botto of the ramp?  Probably I expect but stable mats are slippery when they've been walked over etc.


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## Scot123 (30 January 2013)

Hi - yes, that would be great if you could send me a photo, I think getting all possible ideas from people and then seeing what might work in our situation. The trouble we had with mats is that the field gate/entrance is on a really steep slope so even with 2ft stakes they just slipped off with the mud! But over the top of the rubble would probably be OK. 

Also can sympathise with your shetlands, our wee shettie is the same! Hence thinking a small area which is dry might be better than a big area of bog! 

Also really interested in what you say MiJodsR2BlinkinTite... as that might end up being the sort of way I go. As you say, a really small space couldn't be used for permanent winter 'turnout', but perhaps in the wettest weather and to alternate with the bog. Am spending a fortune on hay anyway as the bog has sucked any remaining grass into the depths!!


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## amandaco2 (30 January 2013)

Mine are spending 12hrs in stables or the yard...which is about 
15m by 28m with a shelter bedded with straw of 8x4 m 
It's been a total blessing.....the horses are much happier having a break from the wet.


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## amandaco2 (30 January 2013)

Actually more like 15m by 50m plus 15x30 shelter .....


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## Mystified (30 January 2013)

Hi when I built our yard I had L-shaped stables built with a big concrete yard area approx 20m x 20m maybe bigger.

Also I had a carpark area built adjoining the stable yard and fields.

So I am fortunate that I can put the gelding out in the carpark area which is about 20m x 20m possibly bigger which has small road planings on it.  

The two old girls with no shoes go in the concrete yard with the stable doors open so if they want to go in they can.

I also am fortunate that I have a 25mx 45m rubber & sand arena so I can turn them out in their too for a good roll and a hooley.  But prefer not to feed them in there.

If I didn't have this I don't know how I would have coped with all this bad weather.   

If I only had paddocks I would definitely look into sectioning off a decent sized corner and putting a hard surface down ie: basalt so there was somewhere they could go with haynets out of all the mud.


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## Coop (30 January 2013)

Will do pics tmoro guys, it was a hurrii this morn! Have checked mats and endurance mats have other mats for sale but not grass mats, must have sold out they usually have loads! You may be able to buy direct from their site, they are 21.99.


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## Honey08 (31 January 2013)

Here are some photos of our setup.  My two horses have lived on this hardstanding for this winter and last, and it has been a total godsend.   The length of the area in the first pic is probably 30metres x 10/15 metres, then there is the area in front of the stables, which is probably four stables wide x two stables wide.  They also use the overhangs for shelter.  We dot haylage piles and nets around the yard and hardstanding, and they wander from bit to bit throughout the day, frequently moving, being able to touch, see what goes past, and generally do what they do in the field.  The only thing they miss is rolling in mud really - as soon as it snowed they were down.  They also get to go out a couple of times a  week for an afternoon in the field. 

One important thing is make it wide enought that nothing can get trapped if one horse chases another. Think at least double a stable width.. My gelding pushes my mare around a lot, and she needs room to trot past him when he is a git!

Sorry the last photo is big - no idea why!


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## MagicMelon (31 January 2013)

I have a hardcored yard outside my stables which has a wooden fence round it with paddocks leading off it.  Its brilliant and Im replicating it at my new house as we speak.  Its like a mini paddock - Means I can keep the shetland in it during lami-prone seasons and I had my big horse in it last week during the blizzards (he just gallops about madly if I put him out into a proper sized paddock), plus because my stables open directly into it I can just leave the doors open and they come in and out as they please.


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## Scot123 (31 January 2013)

Those are great pictures, thanks for posting them. Must say I am just a touch envious! And it's a really good size too. 

MagicMelon - that also sounds a good setup, I don't suppose you've any pics have you?!

I've just checked and it's also Endurance Mats that I bought. Mine is a particularly bad situation being both heavy mud and on a steep hill and just NO way I could anchor the mats. But they were certainly good quality and a good price (I got mine on Ebay) and I wasn't charged a horrific supplement due to postcode so I would def recommend.


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## Coop (31 January 2013)

Have just worked out, I hope, to upload pics!

My area is by no means finished, we had not even made it big enough before it got too wet, still have a massive pile of rubble to extend and widen the rest, which is why its an odd shape!, Honey08's sort of thing is what we were aiming for before the rain came and never got the planings on the hardcore, but hopefully you will see what I did with the mats on top of the hardcore. 
Rake is very good on these mats!






From the other way, you can see how filthy the fields got.


















I know it looks a mess, but we have 3 big horses on here each night and 2 in the day (all 3 fed 3 times in the snow), the boys stay on here most of the day and the 3 of them go off round the fields once they have eaten at night, we do have dry areas away from this its just very boggy getting to it, you can see there is some green stuff in one pic . It has held up really well since mid December but we can't wait to finish it properly. The hardcore had not been finished on the fenceline or under the gates but that will have to wait till its dryer! Then we will get all the mats up, finish the rubble and put planings down, may need a few days off for that, and a few for recovery


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## Coop (31 January 2013)

Forgot to say, we have put 3 heavy duty posts along the fence and at one end so they can have haynets tied up in the day. Usually at night they have big piles of haylage, and sometimes nets too. 

The rake is great for getting up all the old crappy hay and poos.


I will try and get a pic of them all eating tomorrow.

Endurance mats were the best, I had some from someone else and they turned up a load of edges were so brittle they just snapped. I have emailed endurance mats to see when they are back in stock as I need some more to put the lorry back on as I used them for this!


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## Coop (31 January 2013)

Couple more pics 

This is the narrow end we didn't finish, it needs to be 2 metres wider on the left, plus it should come another 3 metres this way on this end, it will probably be 35mx 5.5 metres when done:





Scraps left from last night, as you can see the area on the right is dryer, there is more hardcore under that side, once the mats come up we will do the rest as much as this bit. I'd say we put 8'' of hardcore down on the right side:






Its held up so well, there is some wet under the thinner layer of hardcore but its very solid. I can drive the 4x4 on here, and the lorry will be on it in the summer. They have a small amount of bog to walk thru before they get on the area, but most mornings they are all in position waiting.

One day it will be finished, but our horses are really enjoying their dry times on here  Its amazing how much it has changed our lives!!


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## TGM (31 January 2013)

Interesting thread and a particular thank you to those that shared photos.  I would like to do something similar for my own paddocks but OH has reservations.  He is convinced that planings will come through the holes in the mats and get stuck in the horses feet - has anyone found they had this problem?


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## Coop (31 January 2013)

A couple of mats have small stones under them, at first a few stones came thru but they seem to bed down with mud etc and now I can rake and nothing comes up. They can't seem to scuff anything up after a few days. I cable tie mine and that has worked really well, they simply don't move. I will still continue to use mats over the planings once they are down as one of ours is unshod.


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## NeverSayNever (31 January 2013)

Honey08, after your help and pics when I asked this a few months back,(many thanks for that!) I set about getting mine done...

it worked out more ££ than I had hoped so not quite as big an area as I had hoped, but this is the result, the very muddy area to the right was as a result of the digger being in laying this but I hope once I get that sorted come spring I will have a nice little fatty paddock area for the mini, the gate is the access into the main field..










I have to ask Honey08 - do you manage to keep yours tidy  mine looks pretty messy as poopicking on it is a bit of a task and there is hay everywhere too. Mind you, it is definitely a God send!


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## Coop (31 January 2013)

Wow! Can I ask how much rubble/planings you put down? Honeyo8 has been giving us all hope, its thanks to her I started my project too


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## impala (31 January 2013)

We have a livery yard of 16 horses in the West of Scotland and we have built each horse its own individual hardstanding pen.  They're about 12 x 24, on concrete, with an overhang roof of about 5 to give them some shelter.  Got to say they work brilliantly.  Means the horses can stick to the same routine each day - as in fed and out of their stables.  They usually go in the fields for anything between 1 and 5 hours, depending on ground conditions, and then into their pens.  This means that the fields never get to the deep bog stage.

Happy to email photos to anyone who would like to PM me.  Sorry, can't work out how to upload them!


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## Honey08 (31 January 2013)

They're all looking good.  I initially built mine as somewhere to store the haylage crop, the trailer and caravan, then when I saw it, had a lightbulb moment!

I just came back from a 6 day trip today, and you should see the state of it - there is haylage  literally everywhere and all the poop from under the snow to clear - it looks a bombsite!  Hubby doesn't have time to poo pick as much when I'm away..  I use a poop scoop to clear the droppings, and pile it all at then end of  the turnout area.  My mare is fab - she goes down and poops at the end where the pile is, the gelding just poops everywhere.  I use a fork and rake for the haylage piles.  I do it everyday when home, or have a big clearup when I've been away on a trip.

Those photos were taken during the first year, it doesn't look so pristine now.  I think we will have to spend another couple of hundred on chippings to top up and tart up this year, but better that than the usual couple of hundred we used to have to spend on visits from the vet for chronic mudrash.. More than anything its just peace of mind that whatever the weather throws at us, the horses are ok and can go out.

You might find that it grasses over in summer - ours did a bit, and even more so if they are walking earth onto it too (ie, mud). 

We had to put down a good couple of feet of hardcore underneath the chippings.  Partly as our land is very very wet clay, and partly as the stables foundations were quite high and it needed to meet up.  I've a photo of that somewhere that shows the edge, will try and upload it tomorrow.


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## Coop (31 January 2013)

Thats the ONLY downside-the poops and hay! But much better than trudging across the bog!  Thanks honey08 for your inspiration!


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## Honey08 (1 February 2013)

This is a photo of the back of the stables, you can see the step down to the field (about 2'3") that is hardcore.  For the area behind the temp. stables, we probably put down about half the depth of this (but we are dealing with stupidly wet clay, and most people probably don't need quite so much).  The hardcore was free, as it was huge stuff.  A local farmer brought it for us and flattened it.  Then we got four lorry loads of chippings, which were about £100 per load (20 tons?) and the farmer spread it with his bucket.  

Five or six years ago, when we built the  stables, we probably spent over £1000 putting in deep hardcore to build on, that covers all the area the stables are on, the area off the edge of the concrete apron that you can see without chippings on, and a 40m drive.  That hardcore was smaller and cleaner, and was whacked down to make a hard flat surface.  It gets puddles on and is gradually going muddy, so I want to cover that this summer with chippings (planings).  

I think the other good thing about chippings is it doesn't stand out so much, especially next to mud!. Technically you would need planning to put a surface down. As I said, it did grass over where the haylage seed was over the summer.


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## lachlanandmarcus (1 February 2013)

These areas all look incredibly useful but anyone planning to do this do near in mind that strictly they would require Planning permission (any groundworks ESP involving importing hard landscaping materials will). Not saying you shouldn't just go ahead, just be aware that someone can dob you in if they feel like being busybody. Why they would prefer to see wall to wall mud I have no idea but hey.......


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## serenityjane (1 February 2013)

We have approximately 1/4 of an acre of tarmac/concrete and stone turnout around our barns and stables, we had some drains put in and put cheap quarried stone down for our unshod horses. They have used it for the last three years and although it gets a bit muddy (we are in a clay flood plain after all) it is usually only about an inch of mud on top of the stone. It drains well and the three horses are turned out 24/7 in this area with open-door stables during the winter and for half the day in the summer. In summer they are turned out on grass, in the winter they are turned out in the school for a roll and a kick-around.


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## Honey08 (1 February 2013)

lachlanandmarcus said:



			These areas all look incredibly useful but anyone planning to do this do near in mind that strictly they would require Planning permission (any groundworks ESP involving importing hard landscaping materials will). Not saying you shouldn't just go ahead, just be aware that someone can dob you in if they feel like being busybody. Why they would prefer to see wall to wall mud I have no idea but hey.......
		
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You're very correct there.  Eventually it will grow grass over, and you will be ok (if you look at my above photo, that was exposed hardcore five years ago, now its a grass bank).  The trouble is, the horses eat the grass off and re-expose it every year!    Eventually it would turn to mud - we have a hardcore area we made 25 years ago, and it is about fetlock deep in soil now, and like a small field!


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## Coop (1 February 2013)

The boys on their 'patch' at 7.15 this morning:


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## Coop (1 February 2013)

Ps we did get permission, for a much bigger one than this.


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## Scot123 (1 February 2013)

These replies are brilliant - just want to give everyone a big thank you for them all! I'm going to be keeping this thread to refer to in the coming months and hopefully I'll be able to post 'before' and 'after' shots of my own in due course! 

If there's any way it can be done it's so obviously worth it and basically I think it's safe to say that people agree on the general method (unless we're talking a concrete yard)... dig away as much mud as possible (anywhere from 6in to 2ft); get in the hardcore or rubble; planings on top if possible (where you get this is still a slight mystery to me, but that's for another day!) and grass mats well secured to finish it off. And Bob's your Uncle.

Sounds so simple??!!


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## Coop (1 February 2013)

Pleasure, its made me learn how to upload photos, at last! I will put some more on here when we do the mat removal and planing addition, I may even allow one of me digging


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## weebarney (1 February 2013)

Scot123 said:



			These replies are brilliant - just want to give everyone a big thank you for them all! I'm going to be keeping this thread to refer to in the coming months and hopefully I'll be able to post 'before' and 'after' shots of my own in due course! 

If there's any way it can be done it's so obviously worth it and basically I think it's safe to say that people agree on the general method (unless we're talking a concrete yard)... dig away as much mud as possible (anywhere from 6in to 2ft); get in the hardcore or rubble; planings on top if possible (where you get this is still a slight mystery to me, but that's for another day!) and grass mats well secured to finish it off. And Bob's your Uncle.

Sounds so simple??!!
		
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Apparently if you see roads getting dug up nearby you can go to speak to them and ask them to dump it at your field , this is supposed to be the cheapest way. I found a number in our local paper which has an agricultural section. Or you could ring up local Tarmac companies and recycling companies.


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## Honey08 (1 February 2013)

weebarney said:



			Apparently if you see roads getting dug up nearby you can go to speak to them and ask them to dump it at your field , this is supposed to be the cheapest way. I found a number in our local paper which has an agricultural section. Or you could ring up local Tarmac companies and recycling companies.
		
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Yes, thats what I did, chatted up some workmen - they usually have a list of farms etc in each area that will take it, and ring them, so I got us put on the list.  Its cheaper if they're nearby too.. 

ps, I'm really pleased to see your horses all choose the hardstanding over the field - stops me feeling guilty that mine don't have a choice!


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## muckypony (1 February 2013)

This is such a helpful thread thank you!! I've spent the last week keeping my 2 in because I've been worried about trashing the field and them standing out in horrible wet mud, but mine come in at night so I'm feeling a bit spoilt looking at some of your photos  my field is no where near as bad!!

How do you find the fields recover after being mud bogs? How long does it take for the grass to completely grow back?


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## Coop (1 February 2013)

Normally mine are not as boggy, muddy yes but not deep. Normally they start to dry out mid Feb onwards and by mid march fine. Little different this year but its only this bad near the gates and although hard to tell the rest of it never floods so I count my blessings!


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## Roasted Chestnuts (2 February 2013)

My fields are now so wet they just aren't usable, they are still underwater from the snow melting and all the drains are overflowing so its like a water meadow currently so know how you feel!

My boy is out on hardstanding of hardcore with woodchips over the top. Its probably about 15x20 he gets a haynet in the am when turned out between 6am and 9am and he's out until 3pm at present then he's in his stable.


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## Scot123 (2 February 2013)

I fear I'll have to wait til Spring to try chatting up the workmen. I think I would just alarm them at the moment as I approached in my 25 layers of thermals/waterproofs. At the moment I am improvising the hardstanding by brining one of the ponies off the hill and along to our back patio area for a few days of drying out, fuss and copious hay!


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## Doogle (4 September 2013)

Hi Black Beastie,  How do you find the Woodchips on top of your hardcore.  I have heard that Woodchips go all mushy and am just trying to decide what to put on my hardcore.  Also, how much did it cost to do the area (metres or feet) please.  Thanks


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## winchester (23 May 2014)

Sorry to raise an old thread but after 10 long years struggling on clay fields we are now going to put in a Woodchip/All Weather turn out paddock for the horses for the Winter...

The area is exactly 10m x 20m (in a triangle shape) so i had my (what i thought quite cheap) local farmer come down a give me a quote...

£6,500 - surely that cant be right?  Yes is is half the size of a manage - but no way with it be as good as a menage with a special surface etc..

Is this right it will cost me this much??


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