# brakes- any tips on bits or kit for strong horse



## forestrider (9 February 2009)

hello, anyone any ideas for us, just taken new horse out for the first time and although hes great and jumps anything, he goes so fast into them and i had great trouble pulling him up and nearly crashed into a few people. he is on the 3rd ring of his 3 ring bit- don't know what its called. should i try a double bridle. ? is there any other bits that may give me some more brakes?
any ideas welcome-x


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## JenHunt (9 February 2009)

I hunt in a double bridle, and find it much more effective than a dutch gag (3 or 4 ring bit).

Each horse like somehthing different, and not every rider copes with a double bridle. 

I find i only really use the bottom rein when we're jumping, the rest of the time i could do with just a snaffle.

I say try it and see - maybe start off with a pelham and roundings, see if that helps?!


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## hesychia (9 February 2009)

I would try a pelham with roundings and if that doesn't work maybe a Kimberwicke? And a running martingale if he doesn't already have one =)


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## JenHunt (9 February 2009)

also, try doing a few long steady days, see if that helps - my lad gets better and better as the season goes on, and one of the best things I've found is those days where you trot backwards and forwards on the roads and not much else! 

he then gets the idea that there's no reason to fart about and try to pull my arms or his teeth out!


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## gemmaweir (9 February 2009)

You can attach a curb chain to the three ring gag that might help. Pelham with roundings also worth trying.  I personally would only want to ride in a double bridle when I was confident enough I could ride with the two reins independantly


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## cbeebies (9 February 2009)

friend uses a tom thumb for jumping as horse was very very strong and way to fast they both love it and brakes stearing everything else is 110% with ease


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## Girlracer (9 February 2009)

My boy is extremely strong, i tried him in a pelham with double reins - useless. Kimblewick useless. So now i take him in an american gag with double reins, one rein on the snaffle and the gag rein for emergencies! It's a very strong bit and you have to be careful not to hang onto it else it tends to give them a sore mouth!


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## teddyt (9 February 2009)

If by a 3 ring bit you mean a dutch gag, then using it with the rein on the bottom ring creates a massive amount of pressure on the poll and mouth. Many horses start running off to try and get away from the immense pressure. If using this bit with a rein lower than the biggest ring then you should really use two reins. 
Advising what else to try really depends on the mouth conformation of your horse. Fat tongue, narrow bars, etc. Without that information its hard to be helpful on a better choice.


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## forestrider (9 February 2009)

thanks everyone for all the input, at least i now know what the bit is called. I will try a pelham or kimberwick first , not sure i would be that good with a double bridle. he is absolutely easy to stop in all other situations so far, maybe I will try and go on some slower days,  I worry that he is going to injure himself going at a jump so fast, maybe i should just let him sort himself out  .
thanks for all the advice, much apreciated,


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## Girlracer (9 February 2009)

My boys the same, snaffle mouthed any other time!


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## k9h (9 February 2009)

Does you rhorse do anything else or just tank off?

ie, head down &amp; tanks or head up &amp; tanks. Does he set his mouth against the bit on a particular side? As different bits give different actions. 

So your dutch gag drops the head, so if his head is already low it will just make it go lower. Where as A cheltenham gag will lift a head so if on the flow will lift the head up again you do not want this on a horse with a high head carriage!

Change of mouth piece maybe something to consider as well?


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## forestrider (9 February 2009)

gosh I am delighted by all the response, he puts his head down, and just goes too fast and jumps a bit flat as a result and clips the hedge or rail- i am only going on first time out, only had him 4 weeks so don't know him yet. But in all other respects he is fantastic. just would like to be able to slow him up a bit no particular side . i think hes just excited, he bunny hopped and plunged until the first canter, he is very true, just loves it and is a bit carried away.


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## Christmas Crumpet (10 February 2009)

I guess it might help knowing how you try and slow him down. Do you bridge your reins at all so he is pulling against himself instead of yanking your arms out? I found with an old horse of mine that it didn't make any difference what bit he was in - I just had to bridge my reins or set my hands and use a bit of pressure on alternate reins and he would come back to me. 

I should think that your horse is just excited about jumping and galloping in company and it will take time to settle him down. I always think better to hunt something that will drag you into a fence rather than you having to kick and kick but that's just me!! I would aim to do long days with your horse so it gets a bit tired and realises that it doesn't need to charge at everything. It might take time for him to settle but will be worth it in the end!!


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## hellybelly6 (10 February 2009)

Gags have a head raising action as the reins are used, the bit is raised in the horse's mouth, raising the head.  I use a NS Universal with my horse as he leans so much and sometimes has his chin between his legs on the girth.  The Universale solved this problem.

If a horse has his head in the air, try a curb bit such as a pelham, kimblewick etc.

I would not use a gag on the 3rd ring without a rein on the large ring.  There is a tendency on the 3rd ring for the gag to over rotate in the mouth causing massive pressure on the poll, lips and tongue.  

A curb strap counter acts the excessive rotation (available from NS) and is something to try.

You do not say what noseband you use and this can make a difference also.  It may also be an idea to have his teeth looked at to make sure.


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## k9h (10 February 2009)

Ah so it is all new to you both!
Did his previous owner hunt him &amp; if so do you know what bit he was in? If not could you ring &amp; ask. It may be a case of first days excitement &amp; then he will settle down??


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## kick_On (10 February 2009)

cheltenham gag or proper double bridle if you really want to stop. And of course sit deep, heel down and elbow into tummy and the bu**er will stop! -someone speaking from experience this season. 
But also know when to call it a day, as when the day goes on you'll get tried aswell. I would leave on a good note for you with brakes working


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## sloulou (10 February 2009)

Totally second that about leaving before you both tired!

Mine is usually snaffle except hunting! I use a dutch gag with two reins - most fo the day I just need the snaffle rein, but occasionally I use the bottom rein for emergency stopping.

Incidentally I tried these in this order:

1st time - snaffle with cavesson noseband - no brakes!
2nd time Pelham with 2 reins and cavesoon nose band - he reared when I used the bottom rein - don't hink he liked the curb - and couldn't stop anyway as he opened his mouth to evade!
3rd time - dutch gag with 2 reins, plus flash noseband - perfect - can now stop!

I have actually now swapped to a high ring mexican grackle instead of flash - which he prefers.

You need to try a few and see what suits you both


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## Holloa (10 February 2009)

I really do drool at horses out hunting who only have a snaffle in their mouths- I've really had to learn the hard way with my boy. We were both complete newbies to hunting at the start: first I tried normal snaffle-no brakes, 
then 3 ring gag on 2nd and 3rd ring with flash- worked for a couple of meets then didn't
then pelham, ok but not perfect, 
then kineton noseband, awful!!!
then myler combination- worked for first few hours,then gave him very sore mouth and rubs,
so ended up with a cheltenham gag, and i can stop him and he is learning the more respect he gives as far as slowing down, the less I pull 

I found personally that if I had a bit with a loose ring action it would really give my chap a bloody mouth as it would pinch the sides of his mouth, with my cheltenham gag I have a eggbutt snaffle which causes less sores.
I always think its better to have something stronger in his mouth, take one check and release, rather than to keep tugging on his mouth because he's not listening to you/respecting you.
I'm afraid its trial and error- I also tend to find with my boy the longer he goes out, the more tired he gets the stronger he tends to be....
Good luck!  :grin: oo:


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## forestrider (10 February 2009)

thanks everyone, I will try a different bit, apparently he was in  a waterford before , was told he doesn't like curb chains, he is in a normal noseband but i have a grackle on my other horse so I could try that. I did pull him out after only a couple of hours just because i didn't want to over do it, thank goodness for foot followers!
he has hunted before and he definately knows his job, hes got such a fabulous athletic jump, we'll see how we get on this weekend, I have realised how little I know about it all, I had an amazing mare that just did everything she was asked in a french link. but sadly lost her to colic in november. so I am at least pleased this one jumps well, could be worse hey?


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## NJR (10 February 2009)

I'm with Guildford on this, and wouldnt rush to over-bit him too soon, otherwise you may set a trend for life. Mine was ultra forward going at first too &amp; initially scared me about jumping into a horse/kid in front, but we stayed in a snaffle. 

Hunt him as often as possible, as long as possible, to tire him out more - rev him up the hills etc if necessary, so he doesnt get so excited about hunting, and consider missing out the jumps as soon as he's (or you's!) had enough. A balancing act though - you don't want to make him an anti!

Get him used to standing whilst others are jumping so he doesn't always expect to go first.

Try not to give him a long run up if others are crowding the jump, so he's used to a trot &amp; pop (miss any really wide hedges where you need the speed).  

Good luck!


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## JenHunt (10 February 2009)

there's a lot to be said for that last comment.

like I said, boring days for hunting are good days for excitable horses!

I always make a point of 'down-grading' the bit as soon as I can in the season, so we double bridle it up to Christmas for certain, and then january is myler with a curb chain and feb and march are myler snaffle.


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## forestrider (10 February 2009)

clearly i've had it easy over the past ten years, I have a really strong horse but i used to drag hunt him and know the masters so was up front where it didn't mtter then over the last 7 yeaars i've had a perfect angel. what does bridgeing the reins mean, is it where you cross them over?
I am going to go out on saturday and then wednesday with bloodhounds- drag which is much faster. i will put 2 reins on the bit i have as that seems sensible, the after that rty a different bit, i do n't want to ruin his mouth as he is ever so good at his school work, i'm not a hard and fast hunter just enoy a bit of everything.
x


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## FinkleyGladiator (10 February 2009)

How about something with a roller?
Had the same problem with Finn and he went like an angel in a loose ring snaffle with a roller...


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## JenHunt (10 February 2009)

bridging your reins.... 
1) hold as normal, but slightly shorter.
2) put your hands 5 or 6 inches apart and pick up the 'spare' bit of rein from each side that is between them
3) each hand should be holding a double thickness of rein now
4) put this bridge against the base of the horses neck.

5) discover that you do have brakes after all!


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## forestrider (11 February 2009)

thanks jenhunt, that is a really good tip I did not know, and your description is very easy to follow.
xx


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## k9h (11 February 2009)

Here's a link with pics which add to Jen's description.

http://equineink.wordpress.com/2008/12/19/bridging-your-reins-gives-you-and-your-horse-security/




P.S. 
Jen I have killed my laptop &amp; can not get on FB at work! So I am not being rude if I do not reply to you!!

ETA the link Doh!


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## JenHunt (11 February 2009)

tis ok, just let us know about 28th march asap  - clare has a que for hireling, and we've got him held at the mo.

eta: useful link - didn't know things like that existed!

hore-hero.com is another useful site for things like that.


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## boneo (11 February 2009)

Don't plait his mane, a handful of mane over a drop fence is often th best way of staying on board, also, it will stop you jabbing him in the mouth!


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