# 8 Month Old Weanling Trouble



## ~Nala~ (1 January 2016)

Hi Guys,
I'm new to the forum and recently, I became a new horse owner. I now own my 8 month old weanling Cob colt, but in the past week he's started kicking out. The first few times he kicked, he missed me but the other day he caught me with his back leg as I'm leading him. I'm putting his sudden change of behaviour down to the fact that he has to be kept in his small stable 24/7 as the owner of the livery yard we are on refuses to put him in a field due to the colt not being gelded yet. He is due to be gelded late February and won't be allowed into a field until late March/early April. We are unable to walk him to give him exercise as there is a large pile of rubble and crumbled up brick next to his stable that we can't walk him passed as there is no other way to leave the stable block other than to go past the rubble and walk on sharp chunks of brick, rubble, old piping and what ever else is there.
We cannot move yards as my sister also owns a gelding on the yard and we both share a mare as well meaning it is really difficult to find a yard in the Durham area that will take 3 horses and if they can take 3 horses, the yards refuse to take the colt and if they can manage the 3 horses and the fact that one isn't gelded yet, they are out of our price range.

If anyone could give me advice on the issues I have with the situation at hand it would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!


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## Meowy Catkin (1 January 2016)

Can you find youngstock livery for the colt, where he would be out with other colts and then bring him back to this yard after gelding and recovery?

The current situation is very bad, not only for his short term mental health, but for his long term physical health. A growing youngster should not be stabled 24/7 unless there is a serious medical reason to do so.


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## Clodagh (1 January 2016)

Faracat's idea is a good one. He really needds to be out playing and learning. He may well become dangerous in the current situation and bad manners are difficult to un learn.
I wonder if your vet would consider gelding him now? Not good in many way but if he can't go out or walk the swelling might be too much. Your vet might know of somewhere he could go, perhaps, at least for the healing period?


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## The Fuzzy Furry (1 January 2016)

OP, I appreciate that its school holidays. ....

That said, did you not ever bother to think of how you would keep this colt BEFORE  you brought it?


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## ~Nala~ (1 January 2016)

Hiya, thank you for your quick reply.
When we purchased the colt, the livery owner said he could go into the main stable block with the other horses for company and he would be allowed to go into a paddock of his own but they have now stated that they said no such thing and they are unable to provide this. We have checked several yards in the area who will accommodate him but not until the spring. 
I totally agree that the situation is unfair to him, both mentally and physically and we have explained this numerous times to the livery owner who says he will be fine despite our concerns.


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## Meowy Catkin (1 January 2016)

Have you contacted stud farms who will have youngsters of their own?


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## ~Nala~ (1 January 2016)

Yeah we have Faracat but they have said they won't allow him on as they constantly have mares coming and going and they can't risk the colt catching one of them.


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## EQUIDAE (1 January 2016)

Where are you? I have a herd of youngsters he could go with until you find something - if you are local.


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## ~Nala~ (1 January 2016)

We are in the Durham area.


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## Palindrome (1 January 2016)

I would think your best short term option is to have him gelded asap and switch stables with another horse so he can be walked in hand everyday until he is able to be turned out with the others. Not ideal but that would mean he could go out in a 1 month's time instead of late March.


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## AdorableAlice (1 January 2016)

Providing everything is where it should be there is no reason he cannot be cut now.


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## EQUIDAE (1 January 2016)

Without turnout gelding is not advisable. The swelling after gelding needs to go down - mine was in in an emergency 4 days after gelding and the swelling after just 24 hours was awful. I would never geld a horse that is in 24/7. 

You do need to find somewhere suitable even if it means having him on another yard to the other 2. Failing that the idea of swapping stables is a good one? Could your other, more sensible horse walk past the rubble?


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## AdorableAlice (1 January 2016)

EQUIDAE said:



			Without turnout gelding is not advisable. The swelling after gelding needs to go down - mine was in in an emergency 4 days after gelding and the swelling after just 24 hours was awful. I would never geld a horse that is in 24/7. 

You do need to find somewhere suitable even if it means having him on another yard to the other 2. Failing that the idea of swapping stables is a good one? Could your other, more sensible horse walk past the rubble?
		
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I did mean cut and turn out somewhere, apologies.


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## jaffa2311 (1 January 2016)

This is a wind up! It has all the features of a troll. 

Don't fool for it/1


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## ~Nala~ (1 January 2016)

This is not a troll, I could provide photos of the livery yard conditions in the morning if you so require but I would rather not to avoid disputes or a confrontation with the livery yard owner if she knew. My Colt is in a stable away from the other horses and because his stable is out of the way of the main barn, the livery owner feels its better to put the stuff out of the way of her other liveries in the main barn, consequently blocking the path to my outdoor stable. 
My other horses are out on grass livery at the moment as the livery owner has given our stables away and keeps saying she completely forgot about our horses and that she will try and think of something meaning we only have the one stable which is the stable that my colt is in.


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## Luci07 (1 January 2016)

Seriously sounds as if you need another yard as that is not responsible behaviour from your YO. Sincerely hope she has refunded you for the loss of your stables.

Short term, why not place a wanted ad and see if anyone local has young colts yours could go out with?


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## ester (1 January 2016)

~Nala~ said:



			Yeah we have Faracat but they have said they won't allow him on as they constantly have mares coming and going and they can't risk the colt catching one of them.
		
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Sorry what!? They usually have groups of youngsters and colts turned out. 

If this is not a troll thread I feel very sorry for a poor thing. It doesn't matter that not having the three horses on the same yard will be inconvenient, you need to find somewhere for this chap where he can be turned out asap, preferably yesterday.


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## ~Nala~ (1 January 2016)

The stud yard that is near us is a small holding and when we rang, the owner stated they would not take my colt until he was gelded, as stated above. I appreciate all of the helpful answers but to those who think I am trolling, I came to this site for help, not to be made to feel even worse than I already do about my situation. 
My sister is going to contact local farmers to see if they have any spare buildings or stables and grazing that they're not using at the moment.


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## ester (1 January 2016)

There are plenty of other studs to try! 

There is no point turning him out on his own somewhere, he needs company! The plan that they YO would let you turn him out alone was not satisfactory either, sorry but you really should have made appropriate arrangements for him to be turned out in company from day one.

sorry but it really isn't rocket science why you are having trouble with him.


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## ~Nala~ (1 January 2016)

We know its not rocket science, that's why we are trying to move all 3 so my colt has company...


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## Palindrome (1 January 2016)

Failing the swapping stables, you could also try to move the rubble/junk or tidy it up in big bags. 
Ester, OP stated that her sister has a gelding so that would probably be suitable company.
If you haven't tried OP, local horsey FB group might be able to get you somewhere. You don't need to tell the whole story but just outline that you are desperate for a paddock with safe fencing for a colt who is going to be gelded very soon.

ETA: you don't necessarily need to move the mare now as this means you need a separate paddock for her.


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## ~Nala~ (1 January 2016)

Thank you so much Palindrome for your understanding. 
The pile is 5 tonnes of hardcore rubble.


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## Palindrome (1 January 2016)

It's always harder to find a yard in winter and not many yards will accept a colt but it is a bad situation for the little chap so don't give up. You could also move him to a more expensive place for a few months and find something cheaper in the Spring. It's only 4 months until May.


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## ~Nala~ (1 January 2016)

Thank you everyone who has helped, it is really appreciated. 
Happy New Year &#128519;


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## ester (1 January 2016)

Palindrome said:



			Failing the swapping stables, you could also try to move the rubble/junk or tidy it up in big bags. 
Ester, OP stated that her sister has a gelding so that would probably be suitable company.
If you haven't tried OP, local horsey FB group might be able to get you somewhere. You don't need to tell the whole story but just outline that you are desperate for a paddock with safe fencing for a colt who is going to be gelded very soon.

ETA: you don't necessarily need to move the mare now as this means you need a separate paddock for her.
		
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The only issue with only moving the gelding+colt is if he is still ridden that will at times leave young chap on his own. 

Definitely get on FB and see if anyone else has youngsters/a gelding gang out 24/7 that wouldn't mind an extra for a bit, this is why youngstock livery exists, so that they can go out in an appropriate herd, even if that be some distance away from you.


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## ycbm (1 January 2016)

You do not have to move three. You only have to move one, the colt. The rubble is a red herring, completely irrelevant. The problem is a colt stabled 24/7.  There are dozens of places with young stock around the country which will take him. Find one, pay for the transport, leave him there, have him gelded when the others are gelded, and then turn him away and forget him until he is three.


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## southerncomfort (2 January 2016)

This is a huge welfare issue.  I appreciate that you have tried to find an alternative but the life you are providing for this colt right now is pretty grim.

Forgive me for saying this, but if you can't improve his situation (and soon) you may have to think about finding him a home that that is better equiped for keeping colts.

I do think you need to look at studs a bit further from home.  A stud is the ideal place for him and it won't matter if you can't visit him every day.


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## YasandCrystal (2 January 2016)

ycbm said:



			You do not have to move three. You only have to move one, the colt. The rubble is a red herring, completely irrelevant. The problem is a colt stabled 24/7.  There are dozens of places with young stock around the country which will take him. Find one, pay for the transport, leave him there, have him gelded when the others are gelded, and then turn him away and forget him until he is three.
		
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Please don't take the advice to forget him until he is 3!!  Foals should be handled and learn to be led, to be tied, to be rugged and groomed and to have their feet picked up regularly and trimmed. Leave him til 3 at your peril. I don't believe in over handling youngsters, they need to learn herd life and play, but without basic handling and training you would have a likely potential handful at 3.


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## ycbm (2 January 2016)

YasandCrystal said:



			Please don't take the advice to forget him until he is 3!!  Foals should be handled and learn to be led, to be tied, to be rugged and groomed and to have their feet picked up regularly and trimmed. Leave him til 3 at your peril. I don't believe in over handling youngsters, they need to learn herd life and play, but without basic handling and training you would have a likely potential handful at 3.
		
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That is your opinion.

It is the opinion of many older horse people that it is best to leave them unhandled until they are three. They tell me they see far too many horses spoiled by wrong handling early on and would prefer to buy a blank slate. Having bought two myself which were unhandled until that age, it did not harm them in any way and neither was difficult to tame and break. They were so unhandled that neither had ever seen a farrier.

It is my own preference to handle regularly from young, but this colt, imo, would be better off left completely alone than he would be managed in anything like the way he is managed now.


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## YasandCrystal (2 January 2016)

ycbm said:



			That is your opinion.

It is the opinion of many older horse people that it is best to leave them unhandled until they are three. They tell me they see far too many horses spoiled by wrong handling early on and would prefer to buy a blank slate. Having bought two myself which were unhandled until that age, it did not harm them in any way and neither was difficult to tame and break. They were so unhandled that neither had ever seen a farrier.

It is my own preference to handle regularly from young, but this colt, imo, would be better off left completely alone than he would be managed in anything like the way he is managed now.
		
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It is only your opinion too.

I beg to disagree, being the wife of a farrier I have heard too many a tale of feet not being corrected in a timely way and this causing conformational issues later. It is important to have regular farriery for this reason alone in my opinion, whilst bones are still growing and it is possible.
I have a pigeon toed mare and she had no foot care via the previous owner until 3 years old, it was then too late to make any corrections.

We do agree on this colt, the current situation is unacceptable. I have a 7 month old filly, she comes in overnight, but hey she loves nothing better than to hoon about her paddock with her companion.

I have a Dales youngster and he was an unruly 2 yr old. He took some handling to get him to lead respectfully and I am glad I did this early on as he is now built like a tank. I would hope that anyone taking on a foal/youngster would have the experience or seek it to train them correctly.


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## ycbm (2 January 2016)

YasandCrystal said:



			It is only your opinion too.

I beg to disagree, being the wife of a farrier I have heard too many a tale of feet not being corrected in a timely way and this causing conformational issues later. It is important to have regular farriery for this reason alone in my opinion, whilst bones are still growing and it is possible.
I have a pigeon toed mare and she had no foot care via the previous owner until 3 years old, it was then too late to make any corrections.
		
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I did not say it was 'only' your opinion. That would have been rude. All I was saying was that you stated your opinion as if it was fact when many people actually hold a different point of view. My view, as it happens, is the same as yours, but not in the case of this particular colt, whose owner sees a pile of rubble as some reason to explain him misbehaving.

This colt is approaching nine  months old, it is already too late to correct any limb growth deformities, isn't it?


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## YasandCrystal (2 January 2016)

ycbm said:



			I did not say it was 'only' your opinion. That would have been rude. All I was saying was that you stated your opinion as if it was fact when many people actually hold a different point of view. My view, as it happens, is the same as yours, but not in the case of this particular colt, whose owner sees a pile of rubble as some reason to explain him misbehaving.

This colt is approaching nine  months old, it is already too late to correct any limb growth deformities, isn't it?
		
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Apologies to you I misread your meaning there.   I feel quite passionate about handling as hubby is expected to perform miracles with Unhandled youngsters. It just annoys me when owners take no responsibility and with a little good advice and dedication they could have a respectful youngster. He has even had an experienced owner failing to notice a club foot on a foal and it was just by luck he saw it and told her it needed intervention.
Turning this colt away for a few months until gelding with a herd would be the ideal solution.


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## ycbm (2 January 2016)

YasandCrystal said:



			Apologies to you I misread your meaning there.   I feel quite passionate about handling as hubby is expected to perform miracles with Unhandled youngsters. It just annoys me when owners take no responsibility and with a little good advice and dedication they could have a respectful youngster. He has even had an experienced owner failing to notice a club foot on a foal and it was just by luck he saw it and told her it needed intervention.
Turning this colt away for a few months until gelding with a herd would be the ideal solution.
		
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No problem, I completely agree with you. The poor little beggar needs some playmates.


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## The Fuzzy Furry (2 January 2016)

I am 'older' and have had a great many youngsters for backing and herd management. 
I would prefer to have a yearling, 2yr old or 3yr old that can be caught, brushed, tie and have feet picked out. Also much easier if they learn to travel, wear the odd rug and stable occasionally overnight.  
Makes them much better citizens than the unhandled terrified or thuggish 3/4 yr olds that haven't had anything done whatsoever since weaning.....
Please don't generalise us old school YO's

l



ycbm said:



			That is your opinion.

It is the opinion of many older horse people that it is best to leave them unhandled until they are three. They tell me they see far too many horses spoiled by wrong handling early on and would prefer to buy a blank slate. Having bought two myself which were unhandled until that age, it did not harm them in any way and neither was difficult to tame and break. They were so unhandled that neither had ever seen a farrier.

It is my own preference to handle regularly from young, but this colt, imo, would be better off left completely alone than he would be managed in anything like the way he is managed now.
		
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## EQUIDAE (2 January 2016)

I'd rather have an unhandled one than one who has been badly handled. So few have been handled to make them polite and pleasant animals


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## ester (2 January 2016)

I'd imagine as he is stuck in this chap has had his fair share of handling for the time being.


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## ycbm (2 January 2016)

The Xmas Furry said:



			I am 'older' and have had a great many youngsters for backing and herd management. 
I would prefer to have a yearling, 2yr old or 3yr old that can be caught, brushed, tie and have feet picked out. Also much easier if they learn to travel, wear the odd rug and stable occasionally overnight.  
Makes them much better citizens than the unhandled terrified or thuggish 3/4 yr olds that haven't had anything done whatsoever since weaning.....
Please don't generalise us old school YO's
		
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I did not generalize. I said 'many'. I didn't even say 'most'. Clearly my 'many' does not include you and clearly I was not talking about you.

This poor little devil would be a lot better off left to run completely wild than he would be where he is now, don't you think? Eight months old stabled 24/7 on his own. I despair


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## be positive (2 January 2016)

The Xmas Furry said:



			I am 'older' and have had a great many youngsters for backing and herd management. 
I would prefer to have a yearling, 2yr old or 3yr old that can be caught, brushed, tie and have feet picked out. Also much easier if they learn to travel, wear the odd rug and stable occasionally overnight.  
Makes them much better citizens than the unhandled terrified or thuggish 3/4 yr olds that haven't had anything done whatsoever since weaning.....
Please don't generalise us old school YO's

l
		
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So am I and up to a point I agree but a well handled youngster rarely requires daily handling if started properly most can be left for weeks and longer without forgetting the early lessons in the basics, in my experience the easiest are the youngsters bred by proper set ups, either small studs or experienced hobby breeders that handle the foal from day 1 and continue to do a little with them for the time they are on the mare, often with some extra at weaning then turn them away until they are 3 with just routine handling for farrier, worming etc until they come in to start work. 

The current trend for many youngsters to be living in, handled constantly, introduced to everything imaginable in a bid to "bond" frequently ends up making them worse rather than better mannered in the long run, this poor colt in the OP is just the type to end up being branded as difficult, he is already kicking unsurprisingly in frustration probably due to being in a totally unsuitable home with novice owners and a more than likely clueless uncaring YO, if he doesn't get somewhere suitable before too long he may well end up as yet another youngster with a tricky future ahead, not his fault in any way he would have been far better off left out untouched than shut in 24/7 when he needs to be out expressing himself.


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## The Fuzzy Furry (2 January 2016)

Be positive,  totally agree on the former,  the worst were the over handled mummy's little darlings.
Glad i no longer am confronted with this new common trend 

Ycbm, agreed that this colt (if indeed it exists) is in poor conditions.


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## paddy555 (2 January 2016)

be positive said:



			The current trend for many youngsters to be living in, handled constantly, introduced to everything imaginable in a bid to "bond" frequently ends up making them worse rather than better mannered in the long run,.
		
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I don't see that and in fact I find it makes them far easier to deal with, far easier if the vet was needed in an emergency and they have a head start as they have already enjoyed learning to learn. I expect my youngsters to be able to do everything I can dream up.  By the time they are 4 and ready to back they are well advanced in their knowledge of the world. I cannot see any disadvantages in a yearling or 2yo being traffic trained, trained to walk out and see the world, learning to cross rivers, picking their way over rough ground, learning to behave as they walk through feral ponies,  having things thrown over them, dragging obstacles etc. It doesn't hurt them physically but it does make them very worldly wise.

ETA they are certainly not "mummy's little darlings"  I expect them to behave!!!


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## Spot_the_Risk (2 January 2016)

A quick Google search of Durham youngstock livery brings plenty of leads to ring...


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## be positive (2 January 2016)

paddy555 I think the big difference is that you are experienced, the ones that are in the hands of inexperienced people, who I appreciate have to learn somehow, they are frequently in unsuitable yards, the youngster has limited turnout, often alone, it may mean it can learn to cope but they are often clingy and are allowed to get away with what we would see as bad behaviour because the owners know no better, these seem to be the type that are often moved on or just end up doing very little in their lives as the owners cannot really cope. 

Before buying a foal, or any young horse, the potential owners really need to find out what it entails, ensure the chosen yard can accommodate them properly with decent turnout and that the youngster will have a good chance of a decent future, the dream can end up as a nightmare for either the poor youngster or the owner very easily, if you have your own land it is so much easier than relying on livery yards that normally are not set up for youngsters. 
Breeders need to also take some responsibility before selling to someone who may not have facilities for the foal, most good breeders will try and ensure their foals go to suitable homes but some just don't seem to care as long as they get the cash and space for next years crop.


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## honetpot (2 January 2016)

be positive said:



			So am I and up to a point I agree but a well handled youngster rarely requires daily handling if started properly most can be left for weeks and longer without forgetting the early lessons in the basics, in my experience the easiest are the youngsters bred by proper set ups, either small studs or experienced hobby breeders that handle the foal from day 1 and continue to do a little with them for the time they are on the mare, often with some extra at weaning then turn them away until they are 3 with just routine handling for farrier, worming etc until they come in to start work. 

The current trend for many youngsters to be living in, handled constantly, introduced to everything imaginable in a bid to "bond" frequently ends up making them worse rather than better mannered in the long run, this poor colt in the OP is just the type to end up being branded as difficult, he is already kicking unsurprisingly in frustration probably due to being in a totally unsuitable home with novice owners and a more than likely clueless uncaring YO, if he doesn't get somewhere suitable before too long he may well end up as yet another youngster with a tricky future ahead, not his fault in any way he would have been far better off left out untouched than shut in 24/7 when he needs to be out expressing himself.
		
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 I agree totally with this.
 I have youngsters, the odd one that someone else as messed up I buy cheaply, no one wants a stroppy yearling or two year old. They get turned out in  a group with an older one to put them in their place. They come in only to be wormed and to see the farrier. They all end up with manners as when they are handled they are handled quietly and firmly. Two years ago I got a semi-feral yearling colt which for the vet to check and chip took a 20min rugby tackle and to be caught before travel by being rounded up into a pen. After two weeks in with another one in a small pen as quarantine  he was turned out with the herd and only handled for routine stuff he is now easy to catch and well mannered. Not over handling does not mean lack of routine care.


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## popsdosh (2 January 2016)

be positive said:



			paddy555 I think the big difference is that you are experienced, the ones that are in the hands of inexperienced people, who I appreciate have to learn somehow, they are frequently in unsuitable yards, the youngster has limited turnout, often alone, it may mean it can learn to cope but they are often clingy and are allowed to get away with what we would see as bad behaviour because the owners know no better, these seem to be the type that are often moved on or just end up doing very little in their lives as the owners cannot really cope. 

Before buying a foal, or any young horse, the potential owners really need to find out what it entails, ensure the chosen yard can accommodate them properly with decent turnout and that the youngster will have a good chance of a decent future, the dream can end up as a nightmare for either the poor youngster or the owner very easily, if you have your own land it is so much easier than relying on livery yards that normally are not set up for youngsters. 
Breeders need to also take some responsibility before selling to someone who may not have facilities for the foal, most good breeders will try and ensure their foals go to suitable homes but some just don't seem to care as long as they get the cash and space for next years crop.
		
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Thats why I only ever sell foals to people I know. The risks are to high 1,for the poor youngster and 2, my reputation as a breeder as people see an unruly youngster with my prefix and all mine are tarred with the same brush. 
If foals are handled correctly when with mum they will be able to be handled at any time at a later date. All mine are kept in he centre of the farm so large machinery and noise are second nature to them  I will be honest though they can go many weeks without being touched .


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## ester (2 January 2016)

Spot_the_Risk said:



			A quick Google search of Durham youngstock livery brings plenty of leads to ring...
		
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Excellent.


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## Damnation (11 January 2016)

I'm in Cumbria OP, perhaps consider something our way until you can geld.

http://www.ivyhousestables.com/


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