# Ground conditions et al at Greenwich



## teapot (14 July 2012)

I was reliably informed today by a friend who's going to be a volunteer at Greenwich that it'll be fine and it's looking good


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## Swirlymurphy (14 July 2012)

Agreed.  I was there today and the ground conditions were perfect, even though there had been quite a lot of rain today.


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## Judgemental (14 July 2012)

Swirlymurphy said:



			Agreed.  I was there today and the ground conditions were perfect, even though there had been quite a lot of rain today.
		
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Does that mean if it continues to rain, will it be safe?

The point is, it may seem ok now, but what will it be like after say as few as 20 horses have cut the ground up, let alone however many are expecting to compete.

Is the showjumping on grass or a special surface to the arena and similarly for the Dressage. 

If it stopped raining tomorrow how long would it take to dry out to be SAFE?


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## mtj (14 July 2012)

I saw some site photos yesterday.

As well as the main arena, there are several warm up arenas (including indoor) that are all artificial surfaces.

My understanding is that the xc is the only event that will take place on grass.


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## teapot (14 July 2012)

Only the xc is on grass, everything else is on a surface.


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## Judgemental (14 July 2012)

mtj said:



			I saw some site photos yesterday.

As well as the main arena, there are several warm up arenas (including indoor) that are all artificial surfaces.

My understanding is that the xc is the only event that will take place on grass.
		
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Rather anticipated that would be the case and of course the Cross Country will be on grass, that's where the problem lies.

One simply cannot have horses travelling at speed in the current conditions, viz all the events currently being cancelled. Badminton as an example. It only needs for somebody to take a bad tumble and it is subsequently determinded that it was due to the going and all sorts of problems ensue.


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## teapot (14 July 2012)

Judgemental said:



			Rather anticipated that would be the case and of course the Cross Country will be on grass, that's where the problem lies.

One simply cannot have horses travelling at speed in the current conditions, viz all the events currently being cancelled. Badminton as an example. It only needs for somebody to take a bad tumble and it is subsequently determinded that it was due to the going and all sorts of problems ensue.
		
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Badminton was cancelled because it was under 2ft of water, not because it was slippy on top. There's a difference. And actually most events are being cancelled because courses/locations are waterlogged/too muddy to get lorries onto sites and the rest of the infrastructure. The reports from Burgham today say that whilst the course was slippy in parts, it actually rode incredibly well. 

The Olympic xc will go ahead unless the FEI deem it unsafe (which is how it's worded in the official documentation). It's well draining soil on a pretty steep hill and I cannot believe they've not worked on the take off and landing points. 

Anyone remember the Blenheim Euros running in HIDEOUS conditions?


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## oldvic (14 July 2012)

There will be less than 80 horses running. The horses will have more grip if they are making a print than if it is firm, especially if it rains. There is nothing more slippery than rain on firm ground.


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## Judgemental (14 July 2012)

teapot said:



			Badminton was cancelled because it was under 2ft of water, not because it was slippy on top. There's a difference. And actually most events are being cancelled because courses/locations are waterlogged/too muddy to get lorries onto sites and the rest of the infrastructure. The reports from Burgham today say that whilst the course was slippy in parts, it actually rode incredibly well. 

The Olympic xc will go ahead unless the FEI deem it unsafe (which is how it's worded in the official documentation). It's well draining soil on a pretty steep hill and I cannot believe they've not worked on the take off and landing points. 

Anyone remember the Blenheim Euros running in HIDEOUS conditions?
		
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One would hope so i.e. the FEI's position, however the current weather conditions are unprecedented and it is forecast to rain off and on, well into August, because of the unusual position of the Jet Stream over the North Atlantic.  

What has to be remembered, many competitors and their horses from overseas, indeed beyond Europe are simply not familiar with these conditions.  

One can work on take of and landing points until the cows come home, but if it is tipping down with rain constantly, it's a waste of time, notwithstanding the churning up of the course and the inevitable 'stickability' for riders apart from the first few?


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## Xander (14 July 2012)

teapot said:



			Badminton was cancelled because it was under 2ft of water, not because it was slippy on top. There's a difference. And actually most events are being cancelled because courses/locations are waterlogged/too muddy to get lorries onto sites and the rest of the infrastructure. The reports from Burgham today say that whilst the course was slippy in parts, it actually rode incredibly well. 

The Olympic xc will go ahead unless the FEI deem it unsafe (which is how it's worded in the official documentation). It's well draining soil on a pretty steep hill and I cannot believe they've not worked on the take off and landing points. 

Anyone remember the Blenheim Euros running in HIDEOUS conditions?
		
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The course looks terrific and felt very good underfoot.

I was at the Blenheim Euros. Seem to recall the rain being a lot warmer though


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## Judgemental (15 July 2012)

One does not want to be complacent about the going. The lack of forward planning so far as the security is concerned, provides a wake-up call to everybody not to take things for granted. Especially where horses and the weather are concerned.


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## Judgemental (15 July 2012)

There should be one word writ large in the minds of the FEI Committee:

*CONTINGENCY CONTINGENCY CONTINGENCY CONTINGENCY*

What must not happen, is that the weather remains unkind and there is a question mark concerning the going. God forbid there is any serious accident or a horse has to be put down or is killed as a result of what is perceived to be the going.

The press are in full cry about the security, guarantee that in the above circumstances they will not take any prisoners.

What is required is huge forward thinking.


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## teapot (15 July 2012)

Better to fall on soft ground at a slower speed than too fast on hard ground...


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## Xander (15 July 2012)

teapot said:



			Better to fall on soft ground at a slower speed than too fast on hard ground...
		
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Amen to that.


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## Faithkat (15 July 2012)

I've just got back from my VST and had a great walk round the XC course.  I was amazed at how good the ground is BUT, (and this, to me, is a very big BUT) nothing has been on the fenced off course yet.  What it will look like by the time a few big, studded hooves have galloped over it is totally another matter.  Some of the areas that have been walked on by human feet and driven over by contractors' vehicles are pretty churned up.

 I have to say, though, that the venue is looking awesome, especially the grandstands, but if you have a seat in the top rows, I think you might need oxygen and to not suffer from a fear of heights!!!!!

P.S.  Note to LOCOG - when you've finished with the covered warm-up area, please can you ship down to my field


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## Judgemental (16 July 2012)

Faithkat said:



			I've just got back from my VST and had a great walk round the XC course.  I was amazed at how good the ground is BUT, (and this, to me, is a very big BUT) nothing has been on the fenced off course yet.  What it will look like by the time a few big, studded hooves have galloped over it is totally another matter.  Some of the areas that have been walked on by human feet and driven over by contractors' vehicles are pretty churned up.
		
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My sentiments entirely and with it tipping down again and likely to do so for the next couple of weeks, along with a lack of cover on the seating.

If I was to have a bet, may be that the Equestrian Olympics would have to be postponed as a contigency.

Some will say, there's a pessimistic attitude, well the wholesale unreliability of the British weather has to be faced.


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## mtj (16 July 2012)

Judgemental said:



			One would hope so i.e. the FEI's position, however the current weather conditions are unprecedented and it is forecast to rain off and on, well into August, because of the unusual position of the Jet Stream over the North Atlantic.  

What has to be remembered, many competitors and their horses from overseas, indeed beyond Europe are simply not familiar with these conditions.  

One can work on take of and landing points until the cows come home, but if it is tipping down with rain constantly, it's a waste of time, notwithstanding the churning up of the course and the inevitable 'stickability' for riders apart from the first few?
		
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I would disagree regarding overseas competitors being unfamiliar with these sorts of conditions.  Certainly, those in North America, are accustomed to summer storms that make our rain look like a sprinkle.  Yes, they do get summer floods.  US government even runs a flood insurance scheme for home owners unable to find commercial insurance.

Asian riders will be accustomed to their own rainy/monsoon season, and the Australian/Kiwis are no strangers to spectacular weather.

Many of these riders train in the UK.


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## Judgemental (16 July 2012)

mtj said:



			I would disagree regarding overseas competitors being unfamiliar with these sorts of conditions.  Certainly, those in North America, are accustomed to summer storms that make our rain look like a sprinkle.  Yes, they do get summer floods.  US government even runs a flood insurance scheme for home owners unable to find commercial insurance.

Asian riders will be accustomed to their own rainy/monsoon season, and the Australian/Kiwis are no strangers to spectacular weather.

Many of these riders train in the UK.
		
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mtj, I would not disagree with any of that.

However assuming it does not stop raining and the forecast is very poor and or there is insufficent sun or wind to dry the course. The problem is the going.

Wherever a competitor trains and from whichever country they originate and we are talking about the Cross Country. I would doubt they would train on a track that is narrow and has been churned up by previous riders. There are 80 competitors, so after the first twenty for example, the going if very wet and is guaranteed to churn and there is the added risk of stones, possibly sharp flints being brought to the surface. Especially as we are talking of speeds of 30+ mph.

The question is, will all the FEI safety regulations be complied with and all the risk assessment factors fulfilled.

Out hunting when it is wet, the Field are told to spread out and walk, making an individual hoof mark. That is hardly practical for an Olympic Cross Country Course?

The other issue, it the underlying going. Greenwich is a park and presumably the soil surface is never disturbed, unlike traditional cross country courses nationally, which are largely and generally cultivated farmland on an annual basis. Has the sub-soil at Greenwich when churned, been risk assessed for stones, metal, glass and other detritus lurking just under the surface?


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## Sue B (16 July 2012)

Faithkat, how many rows in each block?


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## Judgemental (16 July 2012)

Why Greenwich?

Can somebody please explain why the Equestrian Olympics are being held in London?

This is a sport that essentially orginates from a rural environment for all practical purposes.

Ministers constantly bang on about supporting the rural economic infrastructure.

I am at loss to understand the rationale of Greenwich?


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## Swirlymurphy (16 July 2012)

Just look back on old threads - this subject has been done to death!


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## Faithkat (16 July 2012)

Sue B said:



			Faithkat, how many rows in each block?
		
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I couldn't count but it's an awful lot.  This might give you a vague idea
http://www.greenwich.co.uk/tag/greenwich-park/


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## teapot (16 July 2012)

Sue B said:



			Faithkat, how many rows in each block?
		
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It's at least 40 in the East and West stands. The South stand looks smaller...


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## Superhot (17 July 2012)

The weather forecast is for dry weather for the next few weeks.  The ground looked fine yesterday.  Not allowed to reveal the extent of what is planned for at Greenwich, suffice to say, competitors and spectators will have a fantastic, memorable and happy experience.  The organizers have the welfare of everyone involved at their heart, and absolutely would not risk anything happening to either a horse or rider.  So if you've got tickets, then I really do envy you, and if not, then sit back and thoroughly enjoy a unique experience!!!


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