# Draw reins  how to use/fit/make them correctly?...



## Chloe_GHE (14 December 2009)

I have never used draw reins before but have had experience of schooling the side effects of them being used incorrectly out of 2 horses so I want to pick peoples brains about them, if they are helpful when used correctly and if they will help with the problem I am trying to solve, here goes...

Jack works very well on the Pessoa (on the setting where it runs alongside the body to the bit and between the front legs) but its harder to get him round when ridden. He will drop his neck and go long and low keeping it straight, but he wont curl it as well as he does on the Pessoa. (I mean arching and bringing his nose in whilst the neck is in a straight line, not sideways flexion that is fine) He is pretty bright so I think if I can get more arch in his neck whilst being ridden he will catch on and we can quickly dispense with the gadget. I have tried asking for this in normal tack but he has no mouth as of yet (lovely inherited trait from his racing days!) and will put up with no end of bit wiggling and fiddling and as I hate nagging on their mouths I would rather resort to a gadget for a couple of schooling sessions to get the message across.

So....would draw reins be the best option to help solve this?...or would you suggest a different gadget?...
How do I fit them? I want to be able to quickly release any leverage/tension on them and return to the regular contact as soon as he offers what I want, is that possible?...
Can I make a pair from tack room jumble? A lunge line maybe? I dont really want to buy some just to use once or twice....

His neck is fine and he can manage this on the lunge/loose in the field/reaching for carrots etc so I think it is just a communication issue

Thank you in advance all advise/alternatives welcome


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## SpottedCat (14 December 2009)

I think this is probably lack of engagement from behind - not something to solve with draw-reins - but without seeing him it is hard to know!

Yes, you can make them from an old lunge-line or some cheap off the roll webbing from B&amp;Q or whatever. 

I have found them most useful when the horse tends to poke the nose through transitions and just needs to get the idea that there is another way to do things - usually after something has been hurting and they are entirely unconvinced it won't still be hurting. One session is usually enough to instill the idea.

What you are describing sounds (though I may be wrong!) like a horse not yet bringing its hocks underneath it sufficiently so it is a bit on the forehand - are you certain he is not dropping slightly behind the contact in the pessoa to give that 'arched' look?


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## Chloe_GHE (14 December 2009)

Yes he pokes his nose out in trans, I have got him doing nice upwards but he is still pokey downwards. If he had more mouth/understanding of a softer conatct I could probably eliminate this but he is 11 and has only raced so he doesn't know any better!

He would always prefer to drag himself along from the front and I'm working like crazy to get him to start everything from the back end first, but he is also dead to the leg when it suits him! He is complex and has a lot of issues BUT I have got it through to him about working from behind and over his back on a circle and he is a dream fwds light really lovely movement I just need a little extra help with the trans and straight lines but I don't want to resort to brut force and hold him in shape, Im looking for a tool to get that then reward him and then go without it....


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## SpottedCat (14 December 2009)

Have you tried him in a double bridle? That might just give you the refinement you need? 

Also, are you completely certain that you are not blocking in any way? It is only since I have had lessons with two different trainers who did a lot of bodywork with me that it has become apparent that my horse was not in fact dead to the leg on the flat, but that I was blocking him quite horrifically. Luckily he is a forgiving sort....

I would just be wary of draw reins on something you say is already a bit dead in the mouth - they are likely to make the situation worse IME.


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## kick_On (14 December 2009)

i agree with SC

sounds as though Jacks not tracking up and engaged hind when ridden. 

It sound to me as though you need to continue to work on lunge to build correct musulces, so then Jack can hold himself correctly in long low outline.

I find that a lunge bunge/draw riens can help when ridden BUT you have to get hind engaged and into contact to get full benefit of gadget


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## Kenzo (14 December 2009)

I'd just keep working him from the leg into a steady hand, you can't really ask with your hands if he's not got a good mouth (specially an ex racer mouth) as it will just confuse matters, could take months or it could take weeks, until the penny drops, but I recon you'll get there without the need for DR's, just takes time and lots of work, otherwise I don't think you get the chance to feel if he is going correcty and working through his back and seeking a contact with draw reins on, well just my view anyway.


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## Chloe_GHE (14 December 2009)

Sadly I don't have a DB either 
	
	
		
		
	


	





He is hard to understand really because he is pretty quirky having raced then p2p then broken a leg and compensated for that on box rest, then moved in this compensatory fashion even when fixed, then realised he could move correctly again there was no pain he is now starting to be schooled.

He can be totally dead to the leg and gobby and plain orrid! then half a circle later it clicks and he is light as a feather responsive and through, there are MASSIVE gaps in his education it's quite odd to ride a horse like that! 
	
	
		
		
	


	





I don't think I am blocking I am making a conscious effort to remain upright and encourage all work from behind first, I just think I'm a bit weak in the leg and don't want to be hard in the hand, I'm so used to Soap who is uber sensitive riding Jack feels like a work out!!!!

I think I'll give the draw reins a shot tonight see if it helps if not back to the drawing board (no pun intended!) I thought they would be good coz once the message has got through during a session rather than stopping and taking off the gadget I can just return to the regular reins and let the draw reins go loose


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## Chloe_GHE (14 December 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
 so then Jack can hold himself correctly in long low outline. 

[/ QUOTE ]

He can do long and low in self carriage and working correctly it's just this straight neck it's not fixed but it's not arched...I don't think I'm making much sense!

Really I just want something to bring his nose in so I can apply lots of leg and get him into that sort of on the bit contact not a straight neck low contact, does that make sense?...

He does also need to build up and engage better too but I'm trying to tackle all his issues simultaniously! It is working honest, we are having big breakthroughs in some areas and there are massive deficits in others!!!


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## kick_On (14 December 2009)

you do make sense 
	
	
		
		
	


	





i think your answer is time tho, gentley, gentley catch the monkey 
	
	
		
		
	


	












. 

If me i would carry on with lunging work, so that gives the solid basic to work from. As as for head carriage stuff have you tried Market harbourgh or shorten draw riens (attached to breast plate instead of girth)


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## scrumpygus (14 December 2009)

My mare is a bit of a lazy moo and loves to poke her nose in the air whenever possible - she takes alot of working in to get her properly engaged and at times it is a lengthy process. 
About 2 months ago i bought one of those myler comfort snaffles with the hooks and i have been using this about once every 5 times i ride and the other times using normal french link snaffle. 
It has worked a treat - because it adds a little poll pressure she gets the idea and i can then really get her working through and then she picks up a lot quicker what i want her to do in her normal snaffle. I have tried not to use it all the time (though i am tempted) as its not dressage legal and i dont want to be reliant on it.


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## Kenzo (14 December 2009)

I think he'll work up in time when he builds up the muscles, its much harder work for them to work with a higher head carriage if there not at that stage phyically, maybe your just expecting a bit too much too soon?, sounds like he's come right once he gets a bit sharper and less lazy off your leg and in the meantime you'll just have to work really hard....but it will tone your legs no end and get you really fit


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## Chloe_GHE (14 December 2009)

I haven't tried a MH or draw reins before a friend has offered me the use of her Fredricks lungie bungie is that similar?...


Hhhhmmmm I know slowly slowly is how I would normally approach this but because of his other issues (intermittant dead mouth dead to leg) I am really looking for some help to get this pole/head flex sorted so I can crack on getting the other things sorted. He sort of flips between modes from working to not working and it's 2 very different horses!

Maybe draw reins wouldn't help just googling them they don't seem to get any good press.....


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## SpottedCat (14 December 2009)

Have you got a pelham? I will occasionally school in my pelham to get a point across....it's like a less refined/defined version of a DB - stick 2 reins on it.


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## charlie76 (14 December 2009)

My horse used to be dead in the mouth and would become tense and stiff in the neck. I changed him into a drop noseband ( on fairly securely) and a loose ring rubber snaffle and he is now transformed. I can literally hold the buckle end and he still works on the bridle with really active hind legs.


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## Chloe_GHE (14 December 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
in the meantime you'll just have to work really hard....but it will tone your legs no end and get you really fit  
	
	
		
		
	


	





[/ QUOTE ]

too true! I did 40mins schooling with him on sat and I was pooped!!! felt like I had done an hours cardio in the gym!!!!!

Maybe I'm expecting too much from him, will give it a couple more weeks then re-asses


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## Chloe_GHE (14 December 2009)

Oh that I do have! a happy mouth one might give that a go tonight atm he is in a myler drop snaffle.

I know this is a heathen thign to ask but do I have to use 2 reins on it? have only ever used 1 with roundings before, how do I use 2 correctly?...

*ducks and prepares to get shot down by the purists*


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## kick_On (14 December 2009)

i use Fredricks 'lungie bungie' for lunging on both mine and on hunter/eventer who can be gobbey and head strong, the lungie bungie works lovely as it gives a nice consitant contact. So i can really work on, and get him off my leg and work him into clear contact. As some times we all have to many jobs to do on top at same time!!!


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## Chloe_GHE (14 December 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
 As some times we all have to many jobs to do on top at same time!!! 

[/ QUOTE ]

hahahhaha this is so true! 
riding jack the definition of multi tasking!!!!


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## SpottedCat (14 December 2009)

No, you don't have to, it's just going to make it easier to add that bit of refinement you want - when flat schooling I do, when jumping I don't. 

Stick the 2 reins on the bits the roundings go on, then hold them as though they are a double bridle - I tend to use the top rein (what would be the bradoon/snaffle on a DB) in the same place as normal and the curb rein through the next fingers up - so they cross. Then if you get nothing from the 'snaffle' rein, a bit more movement of the fingers brings the 'curb' rein into play. (pics here http://www.sustainabledressage.com/tack/bridle.php#kandar)

Of course it's all relative since you are messing about with something with only one mouthpiece, so no matter how much you believe that using the 'snaffle' rein only doesn't have any curb action, you are wrong, but it makes a lot of people feel better to believe that the curb is only having an effect when they use that rein 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 And the curb effect is v much reduced if you use two reins in this manner. But it is not and cannot be as refined as a double bridle which is why I think it does not much matter whether you use two reins or roundings, but you will be able to be smug and holier than thou on forums if you use two reins


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## StaceyTanglewood (14 December 2009)

I would practise on a circle turning the shoulderss and making sure you are even in both hands !!! then once you have this i would practise collecting then pushing forwards only for a few strides at a time making sure that the hind leg is working correctly underneath you 

do not fiddle make sure you hold the outside contact to help the collection 

If you do use draw reins set to the length you need (basically so the horse cannot bring head up above horizontal) the reins should actually be baggy underneath the neck not tight as this would mean they are fixed down 

I find the best thing with being lazy is you kick very hard once (pony club) style and keep doing it until you get the desired reaction - going forwards my horse now goes forwards and i only have to take my legs off his sides xx


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## Chloe_GHE (14 December 2009)

merci for the image that makes it clear.

I will try it with just one tonight to see if he responds well then double up to 2 reins if I think it's going to work on him, then I can be as smug as I like whilst schooling with my 2 reins and out of control at competitons in just a snaffle hahhahaha


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## kerilli (14 December 2009)

SC and co are right. he's not arching his neck as you want yet because that is the LAST part of the puzzle that drops into place once all the other parts are there... and those include engagement, starting to develop self-carriage, etc etc. PLEASE please don't stick draw reins on to get his head and neck where you want, and don't wiggle your hands etc to get it either. just ride him forward to a soft, consistent contact, use lots of half-halts, and when he is able to go more correctly (which takes TIME, there's no way around it, muscles have to develop, balance has to shift, etc) he will start going in the outline that you want. for now, i'd be happy with a consistent contact, straightness, rhythm, correct bend around corners, give at the ribs, etc.


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## estellebradley (14 December 2009)

If it's your first time using them I would get an experienced instructor to help and show you have to use them properly.  They aren't expensive to buy, only £8, or maybe someone could lend you some?


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## FrecklesMum (14 December 2009)

ABBOT DAVIS all the way!!! Very good and you really have to push hard to ensure that the back end is working as well or it is pointless but encourages rather than forces. However, they are as rare as hens teeth......!

Neule Scheul are also brilliant as is a double but personally I can not see the harm in draw reins provided they are not used constantly and the horses head is not strapped to their chest. I will probabley be shot for saying that though!!


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## christinao (14 December 2009)

QR sorry if someone has said this before but it depends very much on the way you attach them. they will work in a much more classic way if you like, by attaching them to the girth tabs, what some may fefer to as a running rein. it is much more difficult to over bend the horse with them like that, and they act much more like side reins, Ferdi Elberg uses them like that. 
 Attaching them between the front legs will incline the horse to flex from midway down his neck instead of at the poll as the force is much more 'downhill'. I am probably not explaining well, so do get some one to advise you and if you are going to use them try both ways to see which works for you. 
    draw reins are only a tool  but like anything are easy to use incorrectly and therefore have rather a bad name but plenty of great experts use them regularly.


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## Chloe_GHE (14 December 2009)

thanks everyone lots of food for thought...


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## Chloe_GHE (14 December 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
ABBOT DAVIS all the way!!! Very good and you really have to push hard to ensure that the back end is working as well or it is pointless but encourages rather than forces. However, they are as rare as hens teeth......! 

[/ QUOTE ]

hahaha how funny I used to have one of these was just given it years ago never used it and ended up selling it a few months back to a fellow forum user!


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## star (15 December 2009)

i have used draw reins on mine a couple of times to get a message across.  he had a mental block about cantering in an outline and i just couldn't get through to him.  months of careful schooling and just complete tantrums and giraffe impressions.  stuck draw reins on him and basically kept his head down where it should be. couple of canters round on each rein and got rid of the DR and he's been fine ever since.  Took him longer to get the strength to stay round in the up and down transitions, but that was a strength issue not a mental issue.  I think they have their place for making a point, but not for anything where it's strength and engagement they need rather than just making them look pretty in front.


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