# Magnetic Headpiece - the verdict!!



## Tempi (16 November 2007)

So as im impatient (!) i ordered Archie a magnet headpiece which arrived in the post yesterday.

Quick background is that he has basically been unrideable recently and will spend his time bronking at very high speed across the arena with me.  It got to the stage where i didnt even want to ride him, so i was just lunging him instead.

Last night i felt i had to get on otherwise i would probaby never get on him again 
	
	
		
		
	


	




  So magnet went on 30mins before i rode.  I went to tack Devil Horse up and he was asleep at the back of his stable  
	
	
		
		
	


	








  - Normally hes stomping around his stable in a stress as he gets a bit irrate at night for some reason, think its because he wants his tea  
	
	
		
		
	


	





Anyways it was pitch black by the time i went up to the arena - hes not keen on the dark and finds monsters under the floodlites which makes him worse.  Satan was so laid back tho he was practically horizontal   
	
	
		
		
	


	








  Started trotting around (it was freezing so wanted to get warm!) and i had my normal Archie back!! 

He was so soft over his poll it was unbelieveable, he wasnt even gobby, he was relaxed in his mouth.  He didnt spook at anything or do a single naughty thing for the whole 45mins of schooling - he always has a spook or at least 1 naughty moment!

I honestly didnt think it would work, but it definately did!!

I know its not the calmer as it takes about a month to kick in, plus the calmer dosent make him relaxed over his poll!! 

So anyone who was thinking about getting them, for me it was 100% worth the money! 

A very happy P_G


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## Jemayni (16 November 2007)

Im quite shocked! What a find!


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## sfward (16 November 2007)

Blimey! Sounds like it really works... Can you keep us updated over the course of a week or two, just in case it was a one off?!!!!


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## Tempi (16 November 2007)

Yup i shall do indeed - il write another report next friday after hes been in it for a week 
	
	
		
		
	


	




  hes on holiday for a week after that.


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## H-J (16 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
Blimey! Sounds like it really works... Can you keep us updated over the course of a week or two, just in case it was a one off?!!!! 

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes good idea !! As I am def interested in getting Dexter one.

Where did you get it from Tempi?


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## Stoxx (16 November 2007)

Really glad you had a good result with it, hmmm, now I might get one (or two to make life easier) the only problem is I have the Albion bridle, so not sure it would fit on that??  Ooh, might have to go bridle shopping too!!


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## kick_On (16 November 2007)

i will be very interested to read next weeks report and lovely to read that he's little horns may be reducing or even disappearing?


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## miller (16 November 2007)

Told you  
	
	
		
		
	


	




  Exactly the same result as with my lad! 

So glad it worked but now you won't want to sell it to me as a 2nd one


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## Thistle (16 November 2007)

Gosh, I'm impressed!


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## Tempi (16 November 2007)

http://www.tds-saddlers.com/ProductDetails.asp?PCLinkID=9051

Archie has the full size one, it fits over his elevator padded bridle.

They are actually larger than they look in the picture, there is loads of room to fit them on even a really padded headpiece.


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## Tempi (16 November 2007)

i dont know about disappearing, but they were certainly smaller last night


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## Tempi (16 November 2007)

i know - thank you!!!!


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## Tempi (16 November 2007)

it will fit on any bridle, there really is loads of room to fit them on anything, honestly!! i was dubious it would fit over my elevator  - but it does with loads of velcro to spare!

You can get a headcollar version which i might ask for for xmas, then i wont have to keep swapping them around!


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## HBII (16 November 2007)

Thats fantastic news 
	
	
		
		
	


	





He is good underneath.


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## Tempi (16 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
Thats fantastic news 
	
	
		
		
	


	





He is good underneath. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Well il wait an answer that next week - it mightve just been a one off!!


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## Rachel1 (16 November 2007)

That's so interesting - would be really helpful for Eric and even for Lou before a competition on a cold winter's day!


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## Stoxx (16 November 2007)

Great thanks... I'm all for anything that might help!!
Good thinking, maybe I could ask for a second one for xmas too, seeing as I have no idea what I would like!


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## sfward (16 November 2007)

Can someone remind me, are these legal in competition?


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## Tempi (16 November 2007)

yup, they are BD legal anyways


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## Worried1 (16 November 2007)

Wow! Might buy one for Blitz. 

I didn't realise he was being so difficult, was this before or after the pheasant incident?


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## Tempi (16 November 2007)

Hes always difficult! He goes threw differnt phases, so far hes done:

napping
rearing
fly kicking
dashing sideways across the school
freaking out when you put your left leg on

and his latest which is bronking at very high speed from one end of the arena to the other 
	
	
		
		
	


	





The ones above i can cope with, its his high speed bronking that really scares me! 

Theres nothing wrong with him, its just his next little evasion on no doubt his very long list!!!


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## Weezy (16 November 2007)

They do sound very interesting.  However, I go to the yard and I ride immediately, it would be a struggle to have to have it on for 30 mins before I rode, evne mucking out doesn't take me that long!


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## seabiscuit (16 November 2007)

Wow sounds amazing!! I hope that the good effects keep on lasting...sorry to hear that he has been such a devil recently!


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## Tempi (16 November 2007)

I normally have to catch Bloss in and then by the time ive rugged and groomed her and tacked him up its around 20mins ish.  

You dont have to leave it on that long, but you wouldnt feel a difference straight away when you started riding if you just tacked up and put it on that way. It would take about 20mins to start working.


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## H-J (16 November 2007)

I can always ride/lunge Spider first before Dexter so he would be able to have it one for long enough before I rode him at home. The problem would come at an event!  
	
	
		
		
	


	




 Im always bl**dy late! But then I do walk the course when I get there so he would have it on for then I spose.

Def sounds promising think I will buy one end of December time. Cant put on my xmasbday list as have just added an ipod shuffle as well as other things!!


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## viola (16 November 2007)

Sounds like they must work then! I will also be interested to hear more on long term use 
	
	
		
		
	


	





PS. Did you manage to get your Convention ticket?


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## Eccles (16 November 2007)

Very interested to hear if you have the same result after a couple of weeks of use!  If so I want one!


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## Tempi (16 November 2007)

hi hun, i did get my ticket - they have more on sale now, if you are still free phone them up!! It said on the BD site yesterday they still had some left x


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## BBs (16 November 2007)

GOSH!
Amazing.
Great news hon. So pleased he went well for you.


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## viola (16 November 2007)

That's great 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 How naughty of them to tell me they sold out 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 Will call them again!


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## Tempi (16 November 2007)

send me a text if you manage to get one, as im not really online much today 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 x


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## Tempi (16 November 2007)

thank you, lets just hope it wasnt a one off! i dont want to get too excited about it being a miracle cure


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## Worried1 (16 November 2007)

I knew he was challenging just realise quite how extreme he had got of late 
	
	
		
		
	


	





I think you are very brave - Diva only has to twitch an ear and I dismount!


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## Halfstep (16 November 2007)

How interesting!  Please do keep us updated on his progress. I'm very very tempted to buy one for my Devil Horse, whose latest wheeze is pissing off at speed across the diagonal (look! medium trot mum!!!!!) at every opportunity.


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## viola (16 November 2007)

If I get it it will have to be for Saturday though as I am now teaching all days Sundays (starting this weekend)  
	
	
		
		
	


	




 xx


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## MrsMagoo (16 November 2007)

Oohh sounds very interesting and glad it helped 
	
	
		
		
	


	




  Would love to try one with Star as she's quite tense in her poll etc and often gets stiff there...but she's usually pretty chilled and lazy in the school anyway (different at comps) so would this make her even more laid back and lazy do you think? x


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## Tempi (16 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
I knew he was challenging just realise quite how extreme he had got of late 
	
	
		
		
	


	





I think you are very brave - Diva only has to twitch an ear and I dismount! 

[/ QUOTE ]

LMAO - mum closes her eyes most of the time im riding him, or holds her breath


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## Tempi (16 November 2007)

oh thats a shame, mine is for the Sunday


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## Tempi (16 November 2007)

ive got to admit that he was mega lazy last night (its one extreme to the other with him!) - however id rather he was lazy than being devil horse!!!


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## Jo C (16 November 2007)

I'd love to give it a go but really don't need Patrick any more laid back than he is already or he will be horizontal. I wonder if it would work just making him softer through the poll or whether I'd end up with an asleep pony 
	
	
		
		
	


	




?
Quite a lot of money to risk though.


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## H-J (16 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
How interesting!  Please do keep us updated on his progress. I'm very very tempted to buy one for my Devil Horse, whose latest wheeze is pissing off at speed across the diagonal (look! medium trot mum!!!!!) at every opportunity. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds exactly like Dexter !  
	
	
		
		
	


	




 Look I can do medium trot down centre line!!

A 10mtr loop in canter......hmmm excuse to try and bomb off down the diagonal in medium canter


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## happihorse (16 November 2007)

Sounds very interesting.  Do they do implants?


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## Tempi (16 November 2007)

i wish!!!!!!!


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## Tempi (16 November 2007)

believe it or not Archie is very lazy when hes not being stupid! I dont think its made him any lazier than he already was!


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## Jo C (16 November 2007)

Thanks Tempi, maybe I'll put one on my Christmas list


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## HBII (16 November 2007)

Gosh I didnt realise he was being such a c*ck! You are exceedingly brave PG! I would have melted into a jibbering wreck of jellyness 
	
	
		
		
	


	




.


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## prudunce (16 November 2007)

wow, i really wudnt believe it would work!! like u ive tried clamers and nothing works on my nutter! I do have an magnetic headband(thrown in car somewhere),bought it off a stall at badders this yr(£3)never used it as its covered in greenfleece.Wonder IF i could sew into blk material add some velcro and put underheadpiece??do magnets have diff strenghs&gt;&gt;??do u know wat strengh the barnsby 1 is pls??and does it go on under the head piece(on bridle) so its close to the skin?? Now mine has the letter N(i take it means north)on one side,wud this go facing ,touching the horses skin or up??does it matter??(confused,hence never using it)


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## Tempi (16 November 2007)

i personally wouldnt put any old magnet on as you need to be careful what strength you use as its near to the brain!!

Here is info about the Barnsby one, scroll down and theres a big picture and info at the bottom:

http://www.eventingireland.com/barnsby.asp

and here:

http://www.freetrainingsystems.com/products.asp?ProdSubTypeID=1&amp;ProductID=7

heres a pic of it on a bridle:

http://www.freetrainingsystems.com/products.asp?ProdSubTypeID=1&amp;ProductID=6


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## jenbleep (16 November 2007)

sorry if its been said but i cant read through the whole post im at work! 

how much is it?


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## Tempi (16 November 2007)

around £60 from TDS, heres the link thats somewhere in the post!!:

http://www.tds-saddlers.com/ProductDetails.asp?PCLinkID=9051


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## jenbleep (16 November 2007)

cheers me dear!


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## miller (16 November 2007)

Re competing and being late - I put mine on the headcollar to travel and just swap it to the bridle to ride - takes 10 secs!

Re : calming / lazing them down - TBH I've never noticed that result - he certainly isn't so spooky (unless Kerilli's chickens are about!  
	
	
		
		
	


	




 ) but doesn't appear to affect temparament/activity levels otherwise.

Other than tha I get the same results as Tempi - have been using it since May time and I certainly know if I have forgotten to leave it on for 20 mins - 30 mins before riding


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## carthorse (16 November 2007)

I think I will get one for Penfold, he is such a tense chap, you may have seen him on picture gallery in Gatcombe video, he is a star jumping and was bred by me for dressage but he does get tense and he needs to do an excellent dressage to do well eventing. 
She can ride Rafi first in the morning and then ride him and I will fit it onto his headcollar on the way to shows. 
Worth a try !
May help his head shaking as well


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## carthorse (16 November 2007)

Ordered mine


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## Tempi (16 November 2007)

let us know how you get on with it! They are going to be in-undated with sales of them at this rate!!


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## carthorse (16 November 2007)

Tempi should be sponsored by 
Global herbs [ thank you they helped a lot]
Barnsby
Daz[ I did post that before]
Anymore
LOL


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## Seahorse (16 November 2007)

Thats amazing! I know what I'm asking for christmas now, if they have any left that is!


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## spaniel (16 November 2007)

QR....

can I ask a question.....before you bought this magnet did you always leave the horse tacked up for 30 minutes before riding?


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## carthorse (16 November 2007)

Someone said they put theirs on their headcollar and move it to their tack before getting straight on!


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## spaniel (16 November 2007)

So they too put poll pressure on their horse for 30 minutes before they actually mount.   Interesting......


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## Weezy (16 November 2007)

the magnetic headpiece just wraps around the headstall - or you can buy a headcollar with the magnets already stitched in - but they must add weight, surely...


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## carthorse (16 November 2007)

Yes but if you travel a horse with a headcollar and it is still tense and then you use the magnets in the headcollar and it help wouldn't that show it helped?


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## BBs (16 November 2007)

I can see what you are saying Weez/Span but winston wears a leg magnet and its so light weight you wouldnt know you were wearing it.

Is it any different to someone putting on a poll guard before travelling?? 

Some of the thick/padded headbands on a bridle which are on sale now wouldnt be any different IMO


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## Tempi (16 November 2007)

he wasnt left tacked up!! He was in his headcollar in his stable like normal 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 You attach the magnet to the head collar.

I just unclipped the leadrope like i do everyday and he was in his stable just in his headcollar like he is everyday!


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## Tempi (16 November 2007)

id hardly call wearing a headcollar having poll pressure 
	
	
		
		
	


	




  Plus the magnet is so light weight i doubt he even notices its on


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## chestnut cob (16 November 2007)

I'm intrigued...what's the explanation behind why they work?


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## Tempi (16 November 2007)

ive posted loads of links about them within this post, they explain it all!


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## MagicMelon (16 November 2007)

Wow, I am surprised its worked. I do use magentic boots for treating physical things but didn't think it could actually change a horse mentally. How on earth does that work? I understand magnets simply increase blood flow, so why would that calm a horse down I wonder?


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## spaniel (16 November 2007)

I remain very unconvinced about these magnetic headpieces and am still very much of the opinion that its the wide and padded/shaped design that 'may possibly' contribute to the 'effects' seen.


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## Bossanova (16 November 2007)

I tried one and it did f all!!


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## StaceyTanglewood (16 November 2007)

Right im ordering one now !!! 

Hun im really pleased it worked and glad you wernt impatient t=cos that means i can now get one quicker xxx


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## Ferdinase514 (16 November 2007)

Bloody hell!!

So glad it worked. Let me know if it continues 
	
	
		
		
	


	





Damn you. Will have to buy one now


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## MotherOfChickens (16 November 2007)

could be any number of reasons why a young horse might behave after having a period off from being ridden?!


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## SpottedCat (16 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
could be any number of reasons why a young horse might behave after having a period off from being ridden?! 

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL, you got there first, damn it!


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## StaceyTanglewood (16 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
Hes always difficult! He goes threw differnt phases, so far hes done:

napping
rearing
fly kicking
dashing sideways across the school
freaking out when you put your left leg on

and his latest which is bronking at very high speed from one end of the arena to the other 
	
	
		
		
	


	





The ones above i can cope with, its his high speed bronking that really scares me! 

Theres nothing wrong with him, its just his next little evasion on no doubt his very long list!!! 

[/ QUOTE ]

oh hun you havent reached the:

Cantering along, suddenly slamming the brakes on rear spin and end up facing the other direction yet then !! 

xxxx


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## StaceyTanglewood (16 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
could be any number of reasons why a young horse might behave after having a period off from being ridden?! 

[/ QUOTE ]

but she hasnt given him time off from being ridden ??? i only saw her last week and Andrews for a lesson !!


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## SpottedCat (16 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
could be any number of reasons why a young horse might behave after having a period off from being ridden?! 

[/ QUOTE ]

but she hasnt given him time off from being ridden ??? i only saw her last week and Andrews for a lesson !! 

[/ QUOTE ]

Whilst I hope Tempi is right and it is the magic headpiece, her original post said: _Quick background is that he has basically been unrideable recently and will spend his time bronking at very high speed across the arena with me. It got to the stage where i didnt even want to ride him, so i was just lunging him instead._


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## StaceyTanglewood (16 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
could be any number of reasons why a young horse might behave after having a period off from being ridden?! 

[/ QUOTE ]

but she hasnt given him time off from being ridden ??? i only saw her last week and Andrews for a lesson !! 

[/ QUOTE ]

Whilst I hope Tempi is right and it is the magic headpiece, her original post said: _Quick background is that he has basically been unrideable recently and will spend his time bronking at very high speed across the arena with me. It got to the stage where i didnt even want to ride him, so i was just lunging him instead._ 

[/ QUOTE ]

yes it just says she didnt want to ride him - i dont think this was everyday !! and if it was can only be for a week xx


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## SpottedCat (16 November 2007)

It was the 'I've been lunging him instead' which made me think she had not been riding him. And a week off ridden work, to give them time to absorb what they have been doing and have a mental break can make a big difference to a young horse IMO.

Just my experience though, I am sure Tempi knows her horse far better than me and if she thinks it is the headpiece, then like I say I hope it is!


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## JM07 (16 November 2007)

how interesting.

i wont be typing what i really think here...not like me i know..because i cannot be bothered with the crap that would come as responses to my posts......

but if the OP has money to spend on so called quick fixes and it makes her happy then so beit...


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## StaceyTanglewood (16 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
It was the 'I've been lunging him instead' which made me think she had not been riding him. And a week off ridden work, to give them time to absorb what they have been doing and have a mental break can make a big difference to a young horse IMO.

Just my experience though, I am sure Tempi knows her horse far better than me and if she thinks it is the headpiece, then like I say I hope it is! 

[/ QUOTE ]

well i hope it works as i want to get one for my mare and she was the test pilot !! 

yes i know i did this with mine and the first time he was even worse and tried to kill me (and broke my nose) the second time he actually did come back better !! x


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## MotherOfChickens (17 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
It was the 'I've been lunging him instead' which made me think she had not been riding him. And a week off ridden work, to give them time to absorb what they have been doing and have a mental break can make a big difference to a young horse IMO.


[/ QUOTE ]

that was my take on it-take the pressure off for a bit = more chilled out youngster. we can only go what is posted after all  
	
	
		
		
	


	




personally, the only way to prove this works to me is for someone to give Archie a placebo magnet, and see how P_G and Archie get on with that, sort of a blind trial type scenario.


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## dieseldog (17 November 2007)

I think this is one of those things (like weighted boots) that you will never fully understand how it works. It could work by magnetising his brain or it could work by P_G thinking it is going to work and therefore she is calmer riding him.  Who knows.  But as it is working, just be grateful and don't question it too much 
	
	
		
		
	


	





It is also a lot cheaper than parelli and you don't look so stupid doing it.


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## carthorse (17 November 2007)

I'll try anything for Penfold. He is 10 years old and has had loads of time and energy spent on him and can move like a dream and jump like a stag[ as you may have seen in picure gallery ,his Gatcombe video ]He has only just started eventing and I'm not going to tell my daughter when I tack him up with the magnet on and see if he is good. He is never naughty, just tense. She won't notice he has a thing on his bridle. I am open minded about it but will try anything , she does very well in dressage with the youngster and has spent hours trying to get him to relax, it will be interesting. As I said I will try anything as we bred him and love him so much.


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## dieseldog (17 November 2007)

If I was in your situation I would be tempted to try it.  But as my horse needs a complete lobotomy I don't think it would make no difference at all to her


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## carthorse (17 November 2007)

Penfold may be the same, I will let you know truthfully, we may have to live with his good bits and bad bits, that's life!


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## MotherOfChickens (17 November 2007)

The thing is some of us know it cant possibly be the magnets and that magnets cannot possibly be having the effect the manufacturers claim  
	
	
		
		
	


	




 so its not a matter of knowing how it works but knowing how it cant be working.


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## carthorse (17 November 2007)

Lucky you being so clever


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## Ginn (17 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]


The thing is some of us know it cant possibly be the magnets and that magnets cannot possibly be having the effect the manufacturers claim  
	
	
		
		
	


	




 so its not a matter of knowing how it works but knowing how it cant be working. 
	
	
		
		
	


	





[/ QUOTE ]

I agree - while I am really pleased that Archie's horns are shrinking for you for whatever reason but IMO magnet therapy or whatever you want to call it is the biggest load of Bullsh!t I have come across for a long time. There is absolutely no solid scientific evidence that soft tissues have any response to magnets and knowing how magnets _do_ work there is no way I would put one on my horse - think magnet in a pile of iron filings and you may understand why!

Sorry, rant over


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## MotherOfChickens (17 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
Lucky you being so clever 

[/ QUOTE ]

not clever-just a science bod  
	
	
		
		
	


	




  some people know about law, others know about economics, I know about some science-its my job.


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## custard (17 November 2007)

Are they supposed to be any good for tension? W isn't really naughty ever just rigid!


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## chestnut cob (17 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]


It is also a lot cheaper than parelli and you don't look so stupid doing it. 

[/ QUOTE ]

FPMSL!!!


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## carthorse (17 November 2007)

Well they take the ache out of my arm [tennis elbow ]
There are more things in this world than we understand.


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## KatB (17 November 2007)

There maye no scientific evidence for magnetic therapy, but I have seen and felt some bloody good results with it, and that is enough to make me believe there is something in it. However, as DD said, the effect with the bridle could be the way the rider responds to the "expected" behaviour that has had the difference in way of going 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 But I am very open minded and believe magnotherapy has a significant benefit in some cases, I would like to try the magnetic bridle for myself before condemning it to be aload of cr*p.


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## Peanot (17 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]


It is also a lot cheaper than parelli and you don't look so stupid doing it. 

[/ QUOTE ]






 he he!
I have a magnetic rug and I originally bought this to help with my mare who was a nightmare to travel.  It helped to relax her as this is what I had read about them.  The magnets have a natural calming effect, as it relaxes the muscles.
I am a great believer in the magnets as I have a magnetic belt which has helped enormously over the last few years, and after reading this post, I am tempted to buy one as my mare gets nervous at an event causing her to be tight through her back and shoulders as well as her poll. Perhaps this will help.


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## spaniel (18 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]



I have a magnetic rug and I originally bought this to help with my mare who was a nightmare to travel.  It helped to relax her as this is what I had read about them.  The magnets have a natural calming effect, as it relaxes the muscles.
. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Please direct me to the manufacturers science on this.


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## JM07 (18 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
 It helped to relax her as this is what I had read about them.  The magnets have a natural calming effect, as it relaxes the muscles.


[/ QUOTE ]

can you tell us who/which company sold you this rug..and any literature to back this rug up with regards to what you claim it does?


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## Tempi (19 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
could be any number of reasons why a young horse might behave after having a period off from being ridden?! 

[/ QUOTE ]

but she hasnt given him time off from being ridden ??? i only saw her last week and Andrews for a lesson !! 

[/ QUOTE ]

Whilst I hope Tempi is right and it is the magic headpiece, her original post said: _Quick background is that he has basically been unrideable recently and will spend his time bronking at very high speed across the arena with me. It got to the stage where i didnt even want to ride him, so i was just lunging him instead._ 

[/ QUOTE ]

hes been unrideable, dosent mean i did ride him!!!!!! He didnt have a single day off when he was being really naughty and i rode him everytime apart from once when i lunged him.


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## PaddyMonty (19 November 2007)

I will quote my old vet (now sadly retired) who was probably the most sceptical person I have ever met.  I asked him about magnet therapy and was it just a gimmick?
His grudging response&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
"I cant see how it works, theres no solid scientific reason why it should, BUT I've seen too many good results from it to dismiss it"

Saying there is no scientific basis for it working doesn't mean it cant.  It simply means the science hasn't yet reached the stage were it can be understood.
Just look back through history to find the falibility of science


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## spaniel (19 November 2007)

Sorry not convinced yet.....


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## Sal_E (19 November 2007)

Seems a dramatic &amp; unlikely transformation but I'm sure PG isn't LYING, so something has caused the improvement - kinda doesn't matter WHAT as long as horse &amp; rider are happy!

That said, I use a good quality magnetic bracelet that I wear on &amp; off for a problem (when I'm not pregnant) &amp; without a doubt, I feel the benefit from it &amp; have done for about 10 years. There's certainly something in it &amp; I'm happy to not worry about the science...


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## weevil (19 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
 "I cant see how it works, theres no solid scientific reason why it should, BUT I've seen too many good results from it to dismiss it"


[/ QUOTE ] 
Well, never underestimate the power of the placebo effect...


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## OrangeEmpire (19 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]

Well, never underestimate the power of the placebo effect... 

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't be so smug! Where is the evidence that it DOESN'T work? Treating science like the all answers to all the questions are already known is very narrow minded.


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## Ginn (19 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Well, never underestimate the power of the placebo effect... 

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't be so smug! Where is the evidence that it DOESN'T work? Treating science like the all answers to all the questions are already known is very narrow minded. 

[/ QUOTE ]

See this is the thing with science - it is usually very easy to find evidence for something whether or not there is the science to explain it. It would be incredibly easy to scientificly design and perform an experiment to find evidence that the magnets are doing something (and by this I am referring to actually finding a measureable effect that can only be attributed to the use of magnets and nothing else) which is why I find it very strange that no such studies have been done. Its something which given the time and resources this summer I would like to do. Some of the most important scientific discoveries were made by stumbling across evidence for something and then asking and analysing what caused it but with magnets there is no actual evidence that they have any effect what so ever - when there is no science that can explain what the manufacturers claim the magnets do and no scientific evidence that they do anything then its easy to understand why people such as myself believe it to be a load of twaddle.

As for "where is the evidence that it doesn't work?"... Unfortunately money doesn't grow on trees and research costs money. The people who fund research do it because they will, in some way, benefit from it. Therefore it makes sense that the people funding any research into "magnetic therapy" will be those who manufacture and supply magnetic products - they are very unlikely to fund a study which either actively sets out to provide evidence that their products don't actually work or a study which is sufficiently thorough and scientific that actually it is likely to give them the results that they don't want.


----------



## sunflower (19 November 2007)

Well said. I am not convinced by magnets, some people are it really doesn't bother me. What I don't like is when people spout pseudo-scientific nonsense to provide 'evidence' of how they work. The worst being they attract blood as blood contains iron. Yes it does, but not in a magnetic form.  I would be very worried if it did.


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## FMM (19 November 2007)

I'd not heard the one about blood containing iron, therefore it attracts magnets - what an interesting (and eye catching) spectacle that would make if it were true!

Having said that, I have a bioflow magnetic bracelet. Suffered for years with tennis elbow and a problem thumb. Had the bracelet for about 3 years now, bought it because I liked the bracelet rather than it being a magnetic one. I realised after about 6 months or so that I no longer had elbow or thumb joint problems. Also, I used to have little headaches about twice a week, and they also disappeared.

I can accept that the headaches could have gone of their own accord, but the elbow and thumb had been causing me pain for over 10 years, and the mobility I now have is far greater and the pain almost non existent. I didn't purchase the bracelet to "help" me - in fact quite poo pooed the idea. So I don't think that I was "wishing" it to work - somehow (and I don't know how) it just did. I never take the bracelet off.

So although I can't understand how Archie could have improved so dramatically, I really want to believe it is for real as the horse must be far happier which in turn makes his rider far happier and surely that is good for both of them! Just because I don't understand something and some people talk total cr4p about it, doesn't mean that it doesn't work!


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## Irishcobs (19 November 2007)

When ever I have worn a magnet, used to for arthritis in my right wrist, my neck and for period pains, not at the same time though, I am always ill, feeling sick, dizzy fever like. They do say that they can cause that because it is clearing out the toxins, but how and why, does anyone, do the so called experts actually know why? 
Now I thought the magnets worked, my wrist was certainly better when I was wearing it, but since I lost it 3 years ago, my wrist hasn't caused any problems so maybe it was nothing to do with the magnet, I never give the neck one a chance as it made me much more ill then the wrist one, and I have only just tried the one for period pains so don't no if that works yet.
But if they make me for like cr*p what does a horse feel, do horses feel ill like humans can, do the 'experts' know?


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## weevil (19 November 2007)

This is the point, you may get better when you use magnets but you can't prove that you got better because of the magnets.
People keep saying that they don'y know how magnets work but they do but then get arsey when it is suggested that the reason you feel better is the placebo effect.
There have been several studies investigating the use of magnets and none of them have proved that magnets have more of an effect then a non-magnetic placebo...


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## SpruceRI (19 November 2007)

So why are magnetic products so expensive?

What's the justification for charging £60 for a strip of padded leather with a few magnets in it? (magnetic headpiece)


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## spaniel (19 November 2007)

The justification is.......muppets are willing to pay.

Pure and simple.  The base magnets are pennies each to produce and a couple of quid to buy wholesale.


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## SpruceRI (19 November 2007)

I've just made a padded magnetic headpiece.  The magnets were 10p each and the material about 50p.  It's not leather and not pretty...but I'm going to give it a go!


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## magic104 (19 November 2007)

Criticism from the scientific community views magnet therapy with disapproval since it is not explained within standard scientific protocol. Although there is a small amount of scientific evidence that appears to support its validity, [5] as a whole, magnet therapy is lacking scientific confirmation to be fully accepted in science.[6] Carey explains in A Beginners Guide to Scientific Method, that true scientific principles are rigorously tested according to the methods of the scientific method; hence, by applying techniques from scientific investigation, apparent fallacies of magnetic therapy can be pointed out.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnet_therapy

I dont care what is written above. it has helped everytime I have put my back out.  The bridles have made a difference to to 2 of my horses in various situations.  It does not bother me how it works, but I believe it does.  Certainly no one has proved it has done any harm.  

What I think is a shame that people cant express an opinion without being rude!  There are many thousands of people on this earth that believe in something that can never be proved, but would you call their faith cr-p?  You would, then how very sad you are!  And that is my opinion of small minded individuals.


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## PaddyMonty (20 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
 [ QUOTE ]
 "I cant see how it works, theres no solid scientific reason why it should, BUT I've seen too many good results from it to dismiss it"


[/ QUOTE ] 
Well, never underestimate the power of the placebo effect... 

[/ QUOTE ]

Correct me if I'm wrong but placebo effect only works if the person being treated believes it works.
Now I may be stupid but I cansay with reasonable certainty that horses DONT know they are wearing magnetic boots / rugs etc so therefor there isn't a placebo effect. 
The quote I gave was from a very experienced horse vet who had witnessed the improvements first hand.
Didn't the scientific community insist the world was flat once?  Guess they got that wrong


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## TGM (20 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
Correct me if I'm wrong but placebo effect only works if the person being treated believes it works.
Now I may be stupid but I cansay with reasonable certainty that horses DONT know they are wearing magnetic boots / rugs etc so therefor there isn't a placebo effect.  

[/ QUOTE ] I presume the effect would be on the rider - they are expecting the magnets to work so will be more relaxed and calm when riding, which will obviously have a knock-on effect on the horse.

Personally, I'm open-minded on the issue of magnets but I think it is perfectly valid for people to want to question Tempi's findings and see if there could be another reason the horse's behaviour has changed.


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## weevil (20 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
What I think is a shame that people cant express an opinion without being rude!   

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't know quite who this is aimed at. I expressed my opinion politely and got called smug in return...
My point was that something may work but if you cannot explain how it works (and even the people who manufacture these things answer such queries with vague pseudo-science) the surely it is reasonable to suggest that it is having a placebo effect, albeit indirectly from the owner...


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## Daisychain (20 November 2007)

I am glad you think it is working for you, but you may find it is your attitude to the horse that is different, horses are very perspective to a riders mood, there is absolutely no way that your horse is going to change from never napping, bucking etc just because he has got a magnet on!!  I think you will find this is very shortlived, your horse will start playing up again unless you become the leader in his mind.  Sorry to sound pessimistic but i am right.


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## Tempi (20 November 2007)

i didnt ride him any differently to how i normally would.....


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## Madam_max (20 November 2007)

Your right  
	
	
		
		
	


	




  That's right you are. How open minded of you.


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## Tempi (20 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
The justification is.......muppets are willing to pay.

Pure and simple. 

[/ QUOTE ]

well this 'muppet' as you have so politly called me was willing to pay.  Its my money i can do what the hell i want with it.

I stepped away from this post as as usual people were personally attacking me, but im fed up of all this crap that i get from certain members.

Hes my horse, i can do what i bl00dy want with him.  I was simply posting a report about what had happened, numerous people asked me how i got on with it so i wanted to reply to be HELPFUL - thats what the forum is about, not lodging personal attacks on people.


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## Tempi (20 November 2007)

its not meant to stop napping or bucking, its meant to help calm them down which it has done with my horse.

I am not an idiot, my horse knows he cant get away with anything.  I never get off him or let him win in any situation.  I just bought this to help him to calm HIMSELF as he gets nervous in different situations.


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## Daisychain (20 November 2007)

Trust me i am very open minded, i have just spent the last 20yrs breaking and schooling horses, and have seen this scenario time and time again, thats all...


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## Madam_max (20 November 2007)

I am not denying your experience, however to say you are right end of is not open minded.  P_G is very experienced and doesn't need to be spoken to like an idiot.


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## Tempi (20 November 2007)

i have also broken in and trained numerous horses and have been riding since the age of 3.

It certainly isnt a scenario - i have put up with more than most people can imagine with my horse because i know hes going to be worth it in the long run.

if i find something i think will help make him less nervous then of course i am going to try it.


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## TGM (20 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
i didnt ride him any differently to how i normally would..... 

[/ QUOTE ] I wasn't talking about you specifically - just a general observation on how the 'placebo effect' *might* work on horses!


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## Daisychain (20 November 2007)

Hey, i dont mean to offend you, but i think it will be a very shortlived effect thats all... It sounds like your horse has major confidence issues.


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## SpottedCat (20 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i didnt ride him any differently to how i normally would..... 

[/ QUOTE ] I wasn't talking about you specifically - just a general observation on how the 'placebo effect' *might* work on horses! 

[/ QUOTE ]

And I think it is very easy to not be aware as a rider of small changes we make which can have a big effect. I've fallen foul of this in a big way with Twiggy - she used to nap every time at the turning from the lane to the bigger road we ride on. Every time without fail. Nothing I did made any difference. Until the day I realised I was shortening my reins by an inch or so just before going out onto that road - so not a major change, not enough to stop her going forwards etc. So that day I lengthened them again - no napping. I played with that for months afterwards - shorten, even a tiny amount and she would nap, leave be and change nothing, no napping. Dunno what she was thinking, but if left alone she did not nap.

So I think as much as we think we are not changing anything, or anything crucial, sometimes we are. 

I hope it is the headpiece - when I was in your position with Twiggy I would have tried anything too (and did!), TBH it is a blessing not to have to as my money can now all go on training and competing!


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## Tempi (20 November 2007)

yes he does and its something he is learning to get over.

i am perfectly aware and capable thank you.


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## Tempi (20 November 2007)

when hes good hes amazing, but when hes nervous he gets naughty to compensate.

i think the fact that hes one of the top 45 young dressage horses in the UK proves this........


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## LEC (20 November 2007)

No offence but PMSL!!
Top 45 after what winning one thing which was not even a national competition like Badminton 4/5yo or Young Dressage horse.
I love reading what crap you will write next.


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## Tempi (20 November 2007)

er, excuse me? He was selected as one of the top 45 young horses in the country to do the World Class Potential Selection day, its nothing to do with the YH class so get your facts right.


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## TGM (20 November 2007)




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## Daisychain (20 November 2007)

Umm, interesting...


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## StaceyTanglewood (20 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]






[/ QUOTE ]


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## BBs (20 November 2007)

Is this really necessary all this??.
Honestly, why is it some of you love winding Tempi up?


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## Madam_max (20 November 2007)

I am honestly gob smaked.  How can a post about a magnetic headpiece turn into such a bitch fest?  I am suprised at some of the people on here.


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## PaddyMonty (20 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
How can a post about a magnetic headpiece turn into such a bitch fest?  I am suprised at some of the people on here.  
	
	
		
		
	


	





[/ QUOTE ]

Just another day at a livery yard


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## SpottedCat (20 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
when hes good hes amazing, but when hes nervous he gets naughty to compensate.

i think the fact that hes one of the top 45 young dressage horses in the UK proves this........ 

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? I did not realise that Equine Pathway thing was invite only, I am sure Matt said you just needed to ask to go along. Shows how much I know about dressage, despite being on a dressage yard LOL. Have you qualified for the regionals now too? That's great if you have, really well done!


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## Daisychain (20 November 2007)

I think some people have got the wrong end of the stick, if someone disagrees with the fact it is the headpiece then they should be entitiled to their opinion, because i would say 99% of problems with horses are to do with horses lacking confidence in their riders and they then try to take control of the situation, i used to work in a racing yard and was often told,'get hold of the bloody thing' because at the time i was nervous of this particular horse, but in hindsight it was true.  If your having to lunge your horse everyday before you get on it etc its beause your nervous, and horses know it... im not having a go because i have been in this situation myself.


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## Madam_max (20 November 2007)

Yes I agree with that, just think things have got a bit personal.


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## Halfstep (20 November 2007)

Why do people feel the need to be so nasty and belittling?  Its unnecessary and makes this forum a very unpleasant place to be.  

The arguments about scientific evidence and pseudo-science are valid and interesting.  But the personal attacks and innuendo are not.

(using QR - not aimed at MM)


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## HBII (20 November 2007)

WOW and some users say the soapbox is bitchy .. this takes it to a whole new level ...


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## TGM (20 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
The arguments about scientific evidence and pseudo-science are valid and interesting.  But the personal attacks and innuendo are not. 

[/ QUOTE ] Agree entirely!


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## spaniel (20 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The justification is.......muppets are willing to pay.

Pure and simple. 

[/ QUOTE ]

well this 'muppet' as you have so politly called me was willing to pay.  Its my money i can do what the hell i want with it.

I stepped away from this post as as usual people were personally attacking me, but im fed up of all this crap that i get from certain members.

Hes my horse, i can do what i bl00dy want with him.  I was simply posting a report about what had happened, numerous people asked me how i got on with it so i wanted to reply to be HELPFUL - thats what the forum is about, not lodging personal attacks on people. 

[/ QUOTE ]

And Im sure I have pointed out to you before that not everything is about YOU Tempi.  

Someone asked a simple question about how the cost of these items could be justified.....I just gave the honest answer.

You may not like it but thats not really my problem is it?


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## PaddyMonty (20 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]

And Im sure I have pointed out to you before that not everything is about YOU Tempi.  


[/ QUOTE ]

Ah but you DID call Tempi a muppet and everyone else who has ever purchased a magnet type product.  
	
	
		
		
	


	




Never realised muppets were so common.  
	
	
		
		
	


	




I also feel I must point out that you gave an answer (as you see it), not necessarily THE answer.  That I believe was 'Deep Thought'


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## spaniel (20 November 2007)




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## JM07 (20 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
Is this really necessary all this??.
Honestly, why is it some of you love winding Tempi up?  
	
	
		
		
	


	





[/ QUOTE ]

probably not... 
	
	
		
		
	


	





but she doesn't half set herself up for it though......


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## JM07 (20 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
No offence but PMSL!!
Top 45 after what winning one thing which was not even a national competition like Badminton 4/5yo or Young Dressage horse.
I love reading what crap you will write next. 

[/ QUOTE ]

PMSL......CLASSIC.


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## Madam_max (20 November 2007)

JM why are you always so ready to have a dig at someone?


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## JM07 (20 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
JM why are you always so ready to have a dig at someone? 

[/ QUOTE ]

where have i had a dig???

i've laughed at a couple of comments, mentioned i wouldnt waste money on such products and replied that this thread is probably unfair......


so WHERE am i having a dig??

i could mention a few who are...but i suppose it guilt by association eh MM???


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## Nats_uk (20 November 2007)

I am planning on being one of the "muppets" who is planning to spend money on a headpiece ( 
	
	
		
		
	


	




) but I agree there is no 'scientific evidence' to say magnetic therapy works but you could say that about a lot of 'alternative therapy' when it first starts out.

I think as long as there is no harm to the horse or rider then there shouldn't be a backlash for using or recommending a product - if it works for them (whatever the reason) then that's surely a good thing?


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## Madam_max (20 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
how interesting.

i wont be typing what i really think here...not like me i know..because i cannot be bothered with the crap that would come as responses to my posts......

but if the OP has money to spend on so called quick fixes and it makes her happy then so beit... 

[/ QUOTE ]

So that's not a dig.


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## houdini (20 November 2007)

Well I just bought the whole Barnsby calming bridle (including magnetic headpiece) for £85 so well pleased. Don't think that is expensive for a well made english bridle. If it works great if not still got a nice bridle and the headpiece is well designed for no pinching and even pressure distribution.
So thanks Tempi for letting me know about this product.


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## JM07 (20 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
how interesting.

i wont be typing what i really think here...not like me i know..because i cannot be bothered with the crap that would come as responses to my posts......

but if the OP has money to spend on so called quick fixes and it makes her happy then so beit... 

[/ QUOTE ]

So that's not a dig.   
	
	
		
		
	


	





[/ QUOTE ]

not at all......

WHERE is the "dig"??


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## Madam_max (20 November 2007)

Stop splitting hairs, I can't be bothered with this anymore.


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## JM07 (20 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
Stop splitting hairs, I can't be bothered with this anymore. 

[/ QUOTE ]

you raised the subject...not splitting hairs here...

in my defence i did not give the OP any "digs", and therefore i rest my case....


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## kildalton (20 November 2007)

Well, it looked like a dig to me... same old JM7


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## JM07 (20 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
Well, it looked like a dig to me... same old JM7 

[/ QUOTE ]


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## SpruceRI (20 November 2007)

I'm so surprised that people are prepared to spend so much hard earned cash on something that is so simply and cheaply made.

£85 for a quality bridle with an integral magnetic headpiece is one thing but £60 for a bit of padded leather and some magnets??

Are people being ripped off or are these magnets something specialised that you can't get from a magnets dealer?


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## magic104 (20 November 2007)

Oh look a few more muppets to have a dig at!!!
Christina Liebherr - "Christina Liebherr jumped to Silver medal glory at this years European Championships using the Barnsby FTS magnetic crown piece." 
The Barnsby FTS Crownpiece is already causing a stir on the international show jumping circuit. Riders such as Nick Skelton, Rob Raskin, Christina Liebherr and Candice King have reported excellent results when used for both training and competition purposes. 

I know H&amp;H did their own review which included a mention of the top riders trying this out.  I dont think this poster deserved the insults thrown at them.  I dont make rude comments to people who believe in ghosts or an unseen god, or Aliens, because it can not be disproved.  Magnetic help can not be disproved where an animal is concerned because they cant be asked.  We can only make assumptions by the change we believe we see in them.  As I said, dont care how it works, I have seen results over the last year, that is good enough for me.  And I would rather be a muppet along with some of the top riders of this country then a narrow minded individual who thinks spending a few years with horses makes them an expert.  I can not be bothered to go through all these posts picking out the insults, just not worth my time.


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## spaniel (20 November 2007)

And for the record I can safely state that I, amongst a few others, have stated what a lot of the rest of the forum are too gutless to put into words.

Now if you dont like that im sorry but im afraid that IS true.


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## JM07 (20 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
Oh look a few more muppets to have a dig at!!!
Christina Liebherr - "Christina Liebherr jumped to Silver medal glory at this years European Championships using the Barnsby FTS magnetic crown piece." 
The Barnsby FTS Crownpiece is already causing a stir on the international show jumping circuit. Riders such as Nick Skelton, Rob Raskin, Christina Liebherr and Candice King have reported excellent results when used for both training and competition purposes. 


[/ QUOTE ]

wow...what a shame they are all sold out til christmas....may as well turn my horse out, let him chill, be a horse,  take off the pressure, stop pumping him full of protein/starch  and things just might, and only just might, right themselves....

oh to live in the real world eh??


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## sunflower (20 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
 I dont make rude comments to people who believe in ghosts or an unseen god, or Aliens, because it can not be disproved.  Magnetic help can not be disproved where an animal is concerned because they cant be asked.  We can only make assumptions by the change we believe we see in them.  As I said, dont care how it works, I have seen results over the last year, that is good enough for me.  And I would rather be a muppet along with some of the top riders of this country then a narrow minded individual who thinks spending a few years with horses makes them an expert.  I can not be bothered to go through all these posts picking out the insults, just not worth my time. 

[/ QUOTE ]


No, but you do make rude comments about people who disagree with you in a calm and rational manner and give perfectly valid reasons as to why they believe what they do.


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## magic104 (20 November 2007)

Which rude comment would that be then?


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## spaniel (20 November 2007)

Empty vessels make most noise.

Some of us dont feel the need to post our CV every time theres a heated debate.


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## JM07 (20 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
 I dont make rude comments to people who believe in ghosts or an unseen god, or Aliens, because it can not be disproved.  Magnetic help can not be disproved where an animal is concerned because they cant be asked.  We can only make assumptions by the change we believe we see in them.  As I said, dont care how it works, I have seen results over the last year, that is good enough for me.  And I would rather be a muppet along with some of the top riders of this country then a narrow minded individual who thinks spending a few years with horses makes them an expert.  I can not be bothered to go through all these posts picking out the insults, just not worth my time. 

[/ QUOTE ]


No, but you do make rude comments about people who disagree with you in a calm and rational manner and give perfectly valid reasons as to why they believe what they do.  
	
	
		
		
	


	





[/ QUOTE ]

SF...Dont go there.....................


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## Madam_max (20 November 2007)

QR- shall we all drop this now.


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## spaniel (20 November 2007)

I for one think that would be a very sensible thing to do.


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## Sooty (20 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
Empty vessels make most noise.

Some of us dont feel the need to post our CV every time theres a heated debate. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Does that mean if someone has qualifications which might give them a factual basis on which to comment, they should not say so? Or am I reading that wrong?


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## spaniel (20 November 2007)

I wouldnt expect someone to feel the need to do that under normal circumstances Soots.


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## Ginn (20 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
 Magnetic help can not be disproved where an animal is concerned because they cant be asked.  We can only make assumptions by the change we believe we see in them.  

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah but that is the beauty of science! You don't have to be able to explain everything but where there is "cause and effect" the effect can be scientificly proven even if you cannot explain the cause. 

If the effect existed then why haven't we got measurable evidence for it - we know how the body is put together, if we are looking at tension then we can test for tension/relaxation very easily now. If magnets "improve" blood flow then again this is easily measurable - infact all the psuedo-science nonsense that the suppliers claim their products do could be very easily measured - so why don't we have this evidence? Why is there not a single, reliable, scientific paper that supports the argument that magnetic products work - we don't need to be able to explain but as far as I am concerned there is no reason why we can have evidence that they exert cause and effect. 

Tempi - I am really thrilled that for whatever reason Archie has improved for you, there is no doubt that he is a very talented horse when he wants to be and if you have made and alteration to his management/tack/riden work however small and subtle that is helping him stay calm then I see no reason why you shouldn't keep going with it. BUT I do find it sad that the vast majority of people who have replied to this thread see it as a quick fix or miracle cure for what in many cases is a problem related to experience, schooling, or rider or horse confidence amougnst other things.


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## magic104 (20 November 2007)

The justification is.......muppets are willing to pay. No need to refer to people who use it as muppets!

I love reading what crap you will write next. Why the need for this comment?

There is no problem with an opposite view, just no need for it to get personal, oh forgot this is the H&amp;H forum!  Doh


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## JM07 (20 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
The justification is.......muppets are willing to pay. No need to refer to people who use it as muppets!

I love reading what crap you will write next. Why the need for this comment?

There is no problem with an opposite view, just no need for it to get personal, oh forgot this is the H&amp;H forum!  Doh 
	
	
		
		
	


	





[/ QUOTE ]


dont quote either of those quotes using my user name....neither came from me magic104.....

thank you... 
	
	
		
		
	


	





using QR could save a lot of confusion....


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## magic104 (20 November 2007)

Just happened to be where you were at the time. the replies are not always instant, as we all know, I have many times typed a reply but will be in the middle of something else &amp; it can be a few minutes before it is finished &amp; posted.  Sorry you were offended.


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## JM07 (20 November 2007)

not offended, mate......

just find it a real bore trying to dodge the "tar-brushses"!


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## magic104 (20 November 2007)

Well at least you have no feathers to worry about, yet.


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## S_N (20 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
Well at least you have no feathers to worry about, yet. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh I dunno - I think she's quite quackers


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## Daisychain (20 November 2007)

. BUT I do find it sad that the vast majority of people who have replied to this thread see it as a quick fix or miracle cure for what in many cases is a problem related to experience, schooling, or rider or horse confidence amougnst other things. 

[/ QUOTE ]


My point entirely....


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## carthorse (20 November 2007)

Get real.Our horse is 11 years old ,we bred him and he is a super mover and jumper but is VERY spooky in life and has strong flight senses.
He has been produced carefully and quietly but weaves in the horsebox and is very tense in dressage.
My daughter's 5 year old is the opposite, he is laid back and relaxed and excells in dressage.
We are not after a quick fix, we would love a miracle cure and will try anything to help him.
There are more things in this world than we will ever understand and even if it is belief ,then great,if it works.
In a couple of weeks I am going to try on [ horse resting at present] I will not tell my daughter I have put it on, I will see if she notices a difference.He is a headshaker so he has some form of pain in his head ,he wears a nose net which helps but I would love to give him something to help him relax and not worry so much. 
Sorry if some of you think this is wrong or I am mad


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## Daisychain (20 November 2007)

Excuse me, i quoted the vast majority.. you only need to see all the problem horses for sale, which most of the time just need squaring up, bought by people with no confidence.


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## magic104 (20 November 2007)

A lot of these problem horses actually have problems!  And no amount of squaring up is going to resolve the issue until the owner finds it.  I had a TB mare ruined by this "squaring up" &amp; being told she was cold back, when in fact she had muscel damage &amp; was in discomfort everytime a saddle was put on her.  VERY experienced people got it totally wrong, &amp; the mare took unecessary beatings.  There could be 101 things the matter, but the horse is telling you something is wrong even is that happens to be "You are a crap owner &amp; I am in charge".  And by that statement I am saying not every horse is in pain or discomfort.  I have been around horses &amp; people long enough to know that 20, 30, whatever years does not an expert make.


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## Daisychain (20 November 2007)

I used to work in a yard which delt with so called problem horses, and by squaring up it often wasnt much, not beating them up all the time if thats what you think i mean, just more often than not people who rode like they were 'sitting on the toilet' was the problem...


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## magic104 (20 November 2007)

So if when do you look at a possibility that there could be something wrong with the horse?  After all a lot of riders dont ride that well.  And some problems can be intermittant because at times the horse can tolerate the discomfort.  In fact just like people horses can have referred pain.  How many people actually look at the whole picture, ie feed, shoeing, tack, conformation etc, when they are having problems.  Because a lot of problems have more then one origin.  From my experience of people not many.


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## Daisychain (20 November 2007)

Actually in this day and age, people always look for a physical/feed related problem first, in my experience.


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## magic104 (21 November 2007)

And what I am saying is it can be more then one issue.  Feed may just be a part of it, same as a tight fitting saddle, may just be a part of it.  There could still be another issue.  Or it could be just a confidence issue which is helped by calming the horse down so he has time to think &amp; not just act.  If something works for someone then it works, does it need to be torn to bits?  This person along with many others have found a benifit from using the headpiece, &amp; shared that.  Some have taken a personal attack which was not necessary.  There were things typed in a way that were obviously meant to have a dig at the person, except some comments streatched out to others ie calling all those that have bought/used this bridle/headpiece muppets.  There was no need for that, would that person stand in front of Nick Skelton &amp; call him a muppet?  Oh I bet they will respond yes, but is that pigs I see flying overhead!


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## SpruceRI (21 November 2007)

My question in all of this is:

Are the magnetic products sold by these horsey companies the same product as sold by magnet manufacturers that you and I can buy over the internet?

There's lots of talk about north and south poles, gauss, neodymics, strength etc.  What does all this mean and what does it mean to the tack buyer such as myself?

Are the magnetic items I have handmade with magnets bought from a supplier the same magnetic strength as that sold by Armadillo, Barnsby and the like?

If no, then I've wasted my money.  If yes, then probably you peeps have.

A simple question, for a simple answer please?


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## magic104 (21 November 2007)

The magnets used in the Barnsby crownpiece are registered in Germany as class one medical devices (European Patent No. 0.134.437, US Patent No. 4,549,532, Japanese Patent No. 1,652,939) 

If your magnet matches the above then yes it is the same strength, but you know what, I have not wasted my money because it cost no more then my elevator &amp; is used daily.  As I needed a bridle anyway &amp; would only use a padded version therefore it is not wasted.


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## SpruceRI (21 November 2007)

Good for you


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## magic104 (21 November 2007)

I know &amp; for my horses...


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## alleycat (21 November 2007)

Interesting post. Whether the headpiece works as described or not, I think there must be a lot about magnetism that we just don't understand yet. 

Take dowsing; I always took that with a pinch of salt until I saw it &amp; tried it (it worked for me once; wierd sensation;  not something I was causing but likewise not something I could control- it wouldn't happen again for me). Two civil engineers from my work had confirmed that the phenomenon exists and had used it to find buried pipelines on site; one guy in particular was definately not a man to believe in fairies. The best tentative explanation they could come up with was that it was in some way due to magnetic fields; but they couldn't fully explain it and no scientific trial has confirmed it; &amp; I can see why not, given my own experience. 

Until persons of a supposedly scientific bent stop lampooning this sort of thing and start considering whether there might be some truth in it and how best to find out, then there will always be a lack of knowledge and an opening for con artists.


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## weevil (21 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
Until persons of a supposedly scientific bent stop lampooning this sort of thing and start considering whether there might be some truth in it and how best to find out, then there will always be a lack of knowledge and an opening for con artists. 

[/ QUOTE ]
But I have considered whether there is some truth in this but all the evidence so far suggests not. There is a way to find out if these things work, certainly on some parameters but this research has not generally been done by the people who manufacture these things. They prefer to make grand claims backed up by very weak science and then use a few quotes from customers...


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## Gingernags (21 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
The magnets used in the Barnsby crownpiece are registered in Germany as class one medical devices (European Patent No. 0.134.437, US Patent No. 4,549,532, Japanese Patent No. 1,652,939) 

If your magnet matches the above then yes it is the same strength, but you know what, I have not wasted my money because it cost no more then my elevator &amp; is used daily.  As I needed a bridle anyway &amp; would only use a padded version therefore it is not wasted. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah but did you say you bought a bridle or headpiece.  As was said before, £85 for a good quality bridle including the headpiece isn't that bad a price for a good quality bridle.

£60 for the headpiece IS expensive for what it is and it smacks of the "whack the price up if its horsey" attitude that is around.  If they are magnets that can be bought cheaply and they are hoiking the price up just because, well this is rip off britain, surely we'd be used to it?

Its fine if it works for people, but although people can say "it works for me so b*gger the science" - I would be concerned in the absence of any scientific evidence at all - what damage they could do without you realising it.

Big what if - but what if these things DO cause damage and there is no scientific evidence or no evidence as to what they do AT ALL, but 5 years down the line your horse ends up with a tumour or brain haemmorhage?

It would be nice to see some proper research to show that even if the benefits can't be measured - there are no side effects or bad implications down the line.


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## Bounty (21 November 2007)

GM - as far as my understanding goes that although there is no evidence as such to prove that they work, there is no evidence to show that they can cause harm either. For static magnets there are officially NO contraindications for their use, though generally people avoid using them during preganancy and on pregnant animals just to be on the safe side. Pulsed magnetic products have more contraindications, but are much more expensive and not as common. 

I'm sat on the fence on this one.. I can perfectly understand the scepticism felt by so many of you due to the lack of significant research, but at the same time I'm happy to 'just accept' that some things don't need to be scientifically proven as there is so much anecdotal evidence in their support. 
I myself wear a magnet, and have used magnetic wraps and straps on my horses.


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## Doublethyme (21 November 2007)

I'm a fence sitter on this and actually see both sides of the arguement.    Like Bounty I've used successfully magnetic products, but would also question a quick fix, particularly on a horse that sounds like it is showing such a wide range of irrational behaviour as the OP posted, but hey if it works for them great.

My one question/concern would be, when I have used magnetic products (leg wraps etc) before, they have seemingly heated up the area and I believe many of the leg wraps carry instructions not to be used for intensive work as they can heat the tendons.       Presumably this is the magnets?   How would that affect such a vunerable area as the poll/brain?

As I say, I'm not dissing it at all and will continue to read with interest (so please keep posting !), particularly with the headpieces possible relevance to headshakers, as my sister's pone is one and we are always looking for things that may help him.


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## Ginn (21 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
Are the magnetic items I have handmade with magnets bought from a supplier the same magnetic strength as that sold by Armadillo, Barnsby and the like? 

[/ QUOTE ]

The likely answer is yes - the magnets used in these products are permenant magnets - that is to say chunks of magnetic material, iron for example, that do not carry an electric current. So, what you need to know about the magnets used in these products is the strength of their magnetic fields (measured in Telsa) and their magnetic moment (the strength of the magnetic field at a distance r from the magnet). When you see the strength of a magnet in Gauss it is just an alternative unit of strength: 1 Tesla = 10000 Gauss.

So, if you know the "strength" of the magnets, what distance they are positioned from, say the poll, and their size then there is no reason why they should be any different from the ones used in hugely overpriced products! Hope that helps.


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## Ginn (21 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Until persons of a supposedly scientific bent stop lampooning this sort of thing and start considering whether there might be some truth in it and how best to find out, then there will always be a lack of knowledge and an opening for con artists. 

[/ QUOTE ]
But I have considered whether there is some truth in this but all the evidence so far suggests not. There is a way to find out if these things work, certainly on some parameters but this research has not generally been done by the people who manufacture these things. They prefer to make grand claims backed up by very weak science and then use a few quotes from customers... 

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly!! Just because "scientific research" has supposedly been done it doesn't mean it is reliable - if it was then it would likely be found in some of the most respected science journals published - which its not! (or atleast not to my knowledge - if it is then by all means direct me to it!)


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## JM07 (21 November 2007)

QR...

http://www.quackwatch.org/04ConsumerEducation/QA/magnet.html




http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/quackvul.html


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## weevil (21 November 2007)

Also, taken from the Bad Science website:
 [ QUOTE ]
 the first placebo controlled trial in the history of medicine was done on magnet therapy in 1784: by Antoine Lavoisier and Benjamin Franklin, investigating the claims of Dr Franz Mesmer, who got his patients to sit with their feet in magnetised water, and hug magnetised trees.

He brilliantly discovered that you can cut a patient and make them bleed, and if you pass a magnet over the wound , the bleeding will stop. He also brilliantly discovered that if he waved a stick about, the bleeding would stop too. Anyone who had ever seen a wound stop bleeding by itself suggested to Mesmer that doing nothing (or jumping about and swearing a lot) might be equally effective, and so, out of a simple desire to compare these two possibilities, with some finessing, the blinded trial was born. Negative trials on magnet therapy have been around for as long as trials and magnet therapy themselves


[/ QUOTE ]


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## I_A_P (21 November 2007)

tempi- have just trawled through this post

i think people have been very personal on here which is absoultely not acceptable-im sure you have tried things with arhci to sort him out and this is just something else to try-if it works then so be it..brilliant!!


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## Tia (21 November 2007)

I'm not getting involved in the "whether it works or not" debate but P_G, what is Archie like if someone else rides him?  And has he always been like this even in his previous home/s (if he had previous ridden homes)?  

I have nothing to add except to say that any pictures/videos I have seen of him, he never looks particularly happy, like there is something wrong with him, however you say not, so perhaps all you have to go on is trying something new like the magnets or suchlike.  If you feel they are working then great.


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## kick_On (21 November 2007)

not getting involved with rights and wrongs of head thingy debate as NOT my thing

Christiamas - i have been lucky enough to see both sides of  horse. Thos horns are defo there, BUT HE DEFO has a hailloo aswell and when he is in latter mood he looks and is ridden like a Billion dollars  horse and not hint of any problems and is just a huge cuddly sweetie on ground. I tried my hardest to load into my trailer, but i was spotted 
	
	
		
		
	


	





I think we should be a bit generous to P_G and encourage her, as she only trying to find something that will make him consitant and as per normal some subject can go sky height without any reason IMO in here

Don't they say that the really talent horses always have some quirk with them


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## Tia (21 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
Don't they say that the really talent horses always have some quirk with them  

[/ QUOTE ] 
Well some people may say that, but it's not necessarily to be believed.  There are plenty of super-talented horses who don't give the rider any hassle whatsoever.


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## Stoxx (21 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
 [ QUOTE ]
Don't they say that the really talent horses always have some quirk with them  

[/ QUOTE ] 
Well some people may say that, but it's not necessarily to be believed.  There are plenty of super-talented horses who don't give the rider any hassle whatsoever. 

[/ QUOTE ]

I think there must be a mixture, some horses that are talented are also very well behaved and some aren't so.  My friend has been told that her horse is a potential 4* eventer but my God he is a bugger!  There aren't many people that could sit to what he throws at her at times  
	
	
		
		
	


	




 but with him I think he has so much ability that he sometimes just doesn't know what to do with it... and so plays up!  He always does it with a huge 'look at me' smile on his face though!!
From what I can tell from P_G/ Tempi's posts Archie is probably similar!


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## kick_On (21 November 2007)

Well some people may say that, but it's not necessarily to be believed. There are plenty of super-talented horses who don't give the rider any hassle whatsoever. 
..................................

and are they very lucky, but i never seen very talent horse without some quirk (not saying that they don't exist)...................... and then it boils down to what quirk thoses riders/grooms are happy to live with and trade off with talent


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## Tia (21 November 2007)

I don't think these people are lucky per se - they have simply chosen different criteria.


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## kick_On (21 November 2007)

ay 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 true


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## Madam_max (21 November 2007)

Spot on, Kick-On 
	
	
		
		
	


	




.  I obviously know P_G very well and have competed with her and watched her.  Archie is a sweetie,  yes he does have devil moments, but he is hugely talented.  P-G is a very quiet rider and really gets the best from him. I can also 100% guarantee this is about 'quick fixes'.


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## Madam_max (21 November 2007)

Should have said ISN'T about quick fixes.


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## Tia (21 November 2007)

I did wonder LOL!!


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## SpruceRI (21 November 2007)

Thank you Ginn

That's just the answer I was looking for


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## texel (22 November 2007)

Before you spend your money on this device, you need to  find out the actual strength of the magnetic field (measured in Gauss units) and polarity. Applying the magnet for the duration of a ride, journey to a show isn't sufficient for any benefit really.  It usually has to be worn for many hours and for many days before any benefit is seen.


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