# Not impressed! One rider at Burghley



## Alltheprettyhorses (4 September 2011)

Well, when it comes to choosing a rider for my eventer it will definitely NOT be the lady who hit her horse so often I lost count, flapped and bounced about on his back and didn't even pat the poor brute when he eventually struggled over the finishing line.  Naming no names but we all know who it is. Shameful.

On the up side, there were lots of really fabulous rounds with fit horses and skilled and balanced riders who were a pleasure to watch.


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## christine48 (5 September 2011)

must admit I was shocked. it wasn't very pleasant to watch and she should have pulled up. I'd have been horrified if it was my horse.


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## ScarlettLady (5 September 2011)

Hmm I wonder if this is who I'm thinking of!! I was horrified, and thought she should have retired.... I was surprised this hadn't come up earlier...


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## charlie76 (5 September 2011)

Totally agree. Usually admire this person and their riding but not this time. Horse was knackered.  I actually don't understand why the course officials didn't stop it. Lucky the rider or the horse weren't injured


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## mrussell (5 September 2011)

If its who I think it is....  if she has been riding for a county like Russia she would have been red flagged.  It seems that the Officials might have given her "best" as she is such a respected rider...  I was gobsmacked watching the BBC highlights yesterday.


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## MrsMozart (5 September 2011)

Link anybody?

Yesterday I got sidetracked by moving rubber mats and missed the highlights (or in this case, the lowlights).


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## TPO (5 September 2011)

http://www.youtube.com/user/BurghleyTV?blend=15&ob=5#p/u/75/ToII1h9Etsc

TBF the BBC just showed footage from the last water which wasn't the prettiest and the last two fences were pretty scrappy but I didn't think it was a bad round all in?


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## lannerch (5 September 2011)

They also showed pictures o f pippa afterwards she like the horse looked shattered!

All my comment about her round in general is both me and tpo knew what rider op was referring too ( provided of course we are right )


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## OneInAMillion (5 September 2011)

I really didn't think the round was that terrible. The horse tested her constantnly the whole way round and because of that she had to ride in a no nonsense approach


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## Ludi-doodi (5 September 2011)

If it's who I'm thinking of you'll *P*robably *F*ind  it on the Burghley TV site, 2nd horse for that rider.   

http://www.burghley.tv/vod/portal/?sid=qe9qr53p1862u88iab7d9spnp7

Having watched a little of that round this morning, and it's no excuse, I did think the rider was totally knackered at the end.  They way she kept flopping over the horses neck after each jump looked very odd.  Unfit rider can't help an unfit horse around would be, my very uneducated, guess.

To be fair though, it was her second ride of the day and if I understand things correctly,it was a longer more galloping 4* than previous Burghley's?  To correct myself, it's probably more accurate to say a tired rider can't help a tired horse. Both horse and rider and probably a million times fitter than me and my horse!


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## Alltheprettyhorses (5 September 2011)

Agreed and I also think if a horse isn't particularly committed, forward or enthusiastic that over a track like that the sensible thing to do would have been to retire. I would have given her a real *******ing if it were my horse and I do agree that officials should be more pro-active in stopping combinations who are clearly tired or not up to the challenge of such a big track.


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## Alltheprettyhorses (5 September 2011)

I also feel vindicated in my original post as everyone has correctly identified the rider and so must have had similar thoughts!


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## Billykid (5 September 2011)

TPO said:



http://www.youtube.com/user/BurghleyTV?blend=15&ob=5#p/u/75/ToII1h9Etsc

TBF the BBC just showed footage from the last water which wasn't the prettiest and the last two fences were pretty scrappy but I didn't think it was a bad round all in?
		
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I agree, it was only the last few fences really?


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## Dotilas (5 September 2011)

I watched the BBC review and they certainly managed to paint a dodgy picture!

A wakeup call in the second water which helped avoid coming out of the water with too little energy and avoided falling. She got the horse home safe and clear. Yes the last two fences, the horse looked a little tired, but this is a 4* event we're talking about, and with not everyone following the same fitness plans, some horses are bound to be tired. She could have pulled up, but in her position, would you have done?



Ludi-doodi said:



			Having watched a little of that round this morning, and it's no excuse, I did think the rider was totally knackered at the end.  They way she kept flopping over the horses neck after each jump looked very odd.  Unfit rider can't help an unfit horse around would be, my very uneducated, guess.
		
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If you watch Pippa's personal jumping style, it is a little unusual, she has always done that slight 'collapse' after big fences.


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## jenbleep (5 September 2011)

I didn't watch her whole round as I was watching on someone elses tv (as a guest in their house!) but did think the horse looked absouletly knackered and it seems like Pippa had to literally drag it over some of the last few fences! 

Can't comment on the rest of her round however


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## jules89 (5 September 2011)

out of interest isn't there a certain number of times u can hit it into a fence? as horse was hit 4 times through the 50-50 water...? 

She did bloody well to get it round, so no comment from me


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## Rach_W (5 September 2011)

If you take the time to watch the rest of the round, you will see that it is only the last few fences over which the horse struggles.  The rest of the time he is taking a good hold and clearly not giving the rider an easy ride.  I think she did well to get them home safely.


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## wildcard (5 September 2011)

I have to agree i was sat watching the highlights yesterday and couldnt believe they stayed on four legs, I gasped at ever fence the horse did not look happy and i do think the officials should have pulled this pair up both looked shattered by the last water complex and i thought were extreamely lucky to get home safely.. Was it a good experience for the horse to get round burghley or should she have realised his heart wasnt in it that day and come back fighting another one might ask.. I certainly know if was my horse she was riding i wouldnt be a happy owner regardless of name.. Horse and rider safety should always be priority.. Hope to see them both back looking much more possitive next time


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## misst (5 September 2011)

As a pure spectator, so not really qualified to comment much, I was horrified at what the BBC showed yesterday but then having watched the whole round it did not look so bad to me until the end. I had wrongly assumed the whole round had looked like the final water and last 2 fences. But I did think the rider looked dangerously tired when she finished so maybe the whole thing was a bit out of character for her? I have never seen her look like that at the finish. I am unable to comment properly but it has always been my understanding that if you do not commit to a fence, and if you do not ride in a seriously positive manner, that you are more dangerous than if you are "nice" to the horse. She only seemed to use her whip to wake him up rather than "beat" him.  Well that is an amatur (sp?) point of view anyway


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## applecart14 (5 September 2011)

After watching it I think that after she'd gone through the finish she was more knackered looking than her horse, but I agree it jumped terribly the last few fences.  It looked like it had plenty of running in between the fences though.

But I'm not fit to judge as I've never done anything over and above an area qualifier horse trials or jumped a few intermediate fences.  That's the highest I'd ever dare to go XC!


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## DarkHorseB (5 September 2011)

Oh well it makes a change from Oli bashing I guess


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## Suziq77 (5 September 2011)

Another one who agrees it was only the anniversary splash and the last 2 fences where the horse looked tired and backing off.  I think she rode as she had to and the horse hardly looks on the point of collapse as she's walking him round after finishing.  That was a huge track and she did a bl**dy good job to get him home safely.  Pippa is one of the best producers of young horses ever and she knows what she's doing!


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## glamourpuss (5 September 2011)

The last 2 fences were scrappy but before that I don't actually see what was wrong with the round. The smacks through the water were completely justified IMO. They nearly tipped up jumping in, he needed a reminder that now was not the time to get complacent.

He didn't look an easy ride and needed a lot of setting up before fences which is going to be much more tiring for horse and rider.
I don't think PF rode the 2nd to last particularly well...it looked to me that she just couldn't see her stride hence the adjusting right up until the last minute (much more preferable than letting a tired horse jump from nothing and possibly tipping up and killing them both IMO)That gave a pretty bad jump over that fence. But, I wouldn't expect the officials to pull her up for it. Possibly if the horse looked like this on the first half of the course but the 2nd to last from home....seriously? 
He can't have been too badly damaged by the round because he still came out yesterday, passed the vet check and showjumped [shrug] 

And what *is* the HHO obsession with whether or not these top riders pat their horses? Why does not patting them make them akin to Satan?


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## YasandCrystal (5 September 2011)

It did not make for pretty viewing and I am sure she will be horrified when she sees the footage. They were both clearly knackered and it is a shame she didn't pull up and retire.; she would have earnt respect from the spectators.


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## Holidays_are_coming (5 September 2011)

I haven't watched it online but I saw some of the round live and I think it was the horses first 4* so it was probably more mentally rather than physically tired! the only way to improve this is to push the horse out of it's comfort zone slightly! Agree with darkhorseb pippa is one of the best young horse producers and again how would most of you know anything about taking a horse round a 4* you all need to get a life !!!!


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## Addicted to Hunting (5 September 2011)

Only watched it on BBC, and yes what they showed the horse did look tired over the last fences, but the horse passed the vet inspection and showjumper ok, it's hard to pass judgement untill it's next Xc IMO, I've certainly ridden some horses that can get backwards and aggressive riding can be required but alot really learn and are more forward next time. I actually just think it was that BBC showed that footage, think there was plenty off others that they could off shown, to help with the pr in eventing IMO. And to say that if that was your horse that she was riding you would off not been happy with how she rode it (if that makes some sense), we don't know if the owner told her to get it round the course basically whatever, some horses will need to be ridden like this over the next step up, and can then asses the level of horse you have. Seen alot worse riding at lower levels, were the horse won't always have grooms and a team helping to wash off and recover straight away after finishing, and a vet righg there.


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## Alltheprettyhorses (5 September 2011)

glamourpuss said:



			The last 2 fences were scrappy but before that I don't actually see what was wrong with the round. The smacks through the water were completely justified IMO. They nearly tipped up jumping in, he needed a reminder that now was not the time to get complacent.

*He 'needed reminders' all the way round apparently.....*

He didn't look an easy ride and needed a lot of setting up before fences which is going to be much more tiring for horse and rider.
I don't think PF rode the 2nd to last particularly well...it looked to me that she just couldn't see her stride hence the adjusting right up until the last minute (much more preferable than letting a tired horse jump from nothing and possibly tipping up and killing them both IMO)That gave a pretty bad jump over that fence. But, I wouldn't expect the officials to pull her up for it. Possibly if the horse looked like this on the first half of the course but the 2nd to last from home....seriously? 
He can't have been too badly damaged by the round because he still came out yesterday, passed the vet check and showjumped [shrug] 

*Not suggesting for one minute that he WAS damaged in any way but i consider it dangerous to persist with an obviously reluctant horse over fences like that.  Other riders chose the sensible option and retired.*

And what *is* the HHO obsession with whether or not these top riders pat their horses? Why does not patting them make them akin to Satan?
		
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*I'm sure the horse couldn't care less if they got a pat or not but it's pretty indicative of the rider's attitude towards their partner if they can't even be appreciative of its efforts!*


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## PorkChop (5 September 2011)

Suziq77 said:



			Another one who agrees it was only the anniversary splash and the last 2 fences where the horse looked tired and backing off.  I think she rode as she had to and the horse hardly looks on the point of collapse as she's walking him round after finishing.  That was a huge track and she did a bl**dy good job to get him home safely.  Pippa is one of the best producers of young horses ever and she knows what she's doing!
		
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Completely agree with this - also think it was unfair of the BBC just to show the last few fences of her round.


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## Amymay (5 September 2011)

Horse started to get tired at about 5 mins.  But to be honest I think it was the rider who struggled ultimately.  It was actually a good round up until the second water.

As for excusing the rider because it was the second ride of the day - I think we only have to look at the other riders who came in the top 3 to knock that one on the head.


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## glamourpuss (5 September 2011)

Alltheprettyhorses said:



			*I'm sure the horse couldn't care less if they got a pat or not but it's pretty indicative of the rider's attitude towards their partner if they can't even be appreciative of its efforts!*
		
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I have just watched the whole round again.The horse did not need reminders the whole way round!!  Pippa took her hand off the reins and used the whip several strides away from a couple of large fences to back up her leg aid. If you ask me the absolutely correct way to prevent a horse backing off a large jumping effort. 

I ask again do you honestly expect the rider/ officials to pull up a totally sound but tired horse with 1 or 2 simple fences left to jump?
 I'm really, struggling to understand what is so bad about a horse being tired after galloping and jumping around the Burghley XC. He was hardly staggering with exhaustion or completely broken down like Amy Tyron's horse. He was just tired. There are vets at the finish who move in and check over the horse BEFORE the grooms are allowed to wash down etc. If Pippa was bringing home a horse that should've been pulled up they would certainly have addressed it. As it was he recovered and was able to showjump the next day....showing that the right decision was made.


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## glamourpuss (5 September 2011)

Oh and the other horses that were retired other than Oli T's horse that napped had all had a couple of stops/runouts. This horse jumped clear around all of the quick routes...as we all know whips and spurs can only do so much if a horse really doesn't want to do it then it won't!


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## wildcard (5 September 2011)

Have just watched the rest of the round from start and have to say "eating words a little" the horse does look to be in much better form on the 1st half of the course.. I Just didnt like how scarily tired they looked in the 2nd and worrid for both parties safety hate to see falls  . But hands up im no event rider and like has been previously stated her track record of bringing on young horses to this level is second to none.. i certainly couldnt do what these top event riders do most of the blooming fences are taller than me... lol. I think the bbc have been slightly mean in only showing the 2nd half of her round and i think this is maybe where people have formed there opinions from.. naughty bbc.... defo worth watching the whole round tho looks much better that first anticipated.. do like to see a good pat tho shows appreciation from rider that horse has done good..


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## TPO (5 September 2011)

In a similar vein to my post on the Oli T thread; why all the negativity?

The snapshot the BBC showed was just that, a snapshot. Having watched the full round on the link I agree with the numerous posters that she really had to ride every stride and IMO done a good job. I concur that I wish I was even a quarter as "bad" as the likes of OT & PF!

PF is one of the best producers of horses and event riders this country has had. She's notoriously hard on herself and while I doubt she has the time to read threads like this I really don't see the need.

There were some fantastic examples of riding and horsemanship at Burghley (and every other 4* competition) yet after every one there are an abundence of threads critising every little thing. There is so much that could be learnt from watching the rounds yet the focus is always on the rounds that were perceived as "bad". At the very least these riders have qualified their horses for 4* level and that's no walk in the park.

I'm more a lurker than a poster (clearly for good reason!) but from what I can gather this section of the forum used to be fortunate to receive regular postings and updates from riders in all disciplines competing at higher levels. Have seen these "bashing" threads after every major event I can see why people stopped taking the effort to post and I think the forum is poorer for it.

I don't compete and of course you don't have to have ridden at 4* level to have an opinion but it seems that it's easier to critise than to say anything positive about competitors. Several people have mentioned how good Janette Brakewell's round was yet there are no links to that or discussion on how well she done X, Y & Z. While we're not all heading to 4* (or even a pole 4" off the ground in my case!) I'm sure there are things to be learnt that can be applied at all levels. 

Maybe one day CR will return to how it used to be and while opinions were always welcome they were balanced and constructive with an encouraging atmosphere. Maybe some old faces might even resurface!


Oh and, http://www.youtube.com/user/BurghleyTV?blend=15&ob=5#p/u/116/ps-u0MQNcOg


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## Marydoll (5 September 2011)

PF obviously never felt the need to retire , and she was probably in the best place to make the decision  and neither did the officials or stewards.
I do think quite a few of the horses found the course tiring and a few riders need to address theirs and their horses fitness before their next outing


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## ellie_e (5 September 2011)

After watching the link, personally i didnt think it was that bad either, at around 5mins the horse was tired, but after the water he was still pulling and fighting her to all of the fences, unless your on that same horse at the same time i dont think anyone can judge anyones way of riding. Shes a 4* eventer and knows her job and horses, tbh he looks very strong and not an easy ride.


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## Honey08 (5 September 2011)

If we're going off the BBC coverage yesterday, they only showed about three fences of her anyway - and that was in the "near accidents" five minutes, where they'd strung together all the worst moments.  In total they perhaps showed a minute of her round out of a twelve minute course..  If the whole round had been dodgy they would have shown it - basically that programme spent so long showing Mary King at home (which was lovely and interesting, but I'd tuned in to see Burghley!) and computer generated arrows of how the course routes went, that they only showed the best rounds.  They only had time for the last five show jumping rounds in full, when you normally get 10-15.  So how can you judge someone's round from that!!

Yes, sometimes these top riders, particularly on green horses, don't look pretty.  Its their job at the end of the day.  As someone said on the OP bashing thread, in an olympic run up people will take more risks to show themselves to the selectors and qualify their horses.

WFP put his horse through  quite a lot at the Europeans last week.  I thought that he rode awesomely.  However had my own horse half drowned itself at the water jump I would have chosen to call it a day at that event.  He couldn't - he had to carry on for the team.  His horse later showed that being taught that they have to keep going as a youngster pays off later on - when he jumped the skinny hedge after the corner...


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## Maesfen (5 September 2011)

Dotilas said:



			Yes the last two fences, the horse looked a little tired, but this is a 4* event we're talking about, and with not everyone following the same fitness plans, some horses are bound to be tired. She could have pulled up, but in her position, would you have done?
		
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TBH, that doesn't wash either.  With her experience she should have known that it needed to be ultra fit, goodness, she's done it enough times and even if the plan had been not to have it fit enough because it's a hyper sort, that should have been taken into consideration anyway.  There were several there doing their first 4* too, many of them still finished very well and able to have gone on.



amymay said:



			Horse started to get tired at about 5 mins.  But to be honest I think it was the rider who struggled ultimately.  It was actually a good round up until the second water.

As for excusing the rider because it was the second ride of the day - I think we only have to look at the other riders who came in the top 3 to knock that one on the head.
		
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Have to agree with this.


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## YasandCrystal (5 September 2011)

Have to now agree with many posters - the BBC footage was an unfortunate snapshot and when you take it in context of the whole round you definately get a different picture. The BBC footage really made it look like horse and rider were struggling and of course the assumption would be that they had been for some time, which was actually not the case at all.


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## kerilli (5 September 2011)

Crikey, I REALLY can't believe this. 
Are you all watching the same video as me? Seriously?
No more hints, we are talking about Pippa Funnell on Pure Addiction, yes?
I have not been backwards in being critical on here before, and would say something now if I thought there was anything amiss, but I really cannot see what you are all going on about. The horse was NOT looking 'knackered' at all imho. He was travelling well between the fences, not losing his action at all, or wobbling (exhausted horses do, I've seen it). Maybe she got him a fraction deep/slow to the penultimate so he didn't jump across it as well as he could have, ditto the last perhaps, but that's NOT terrible horse abuse. As for her hitting him here and there - yes, because he wasn't being sharp off the leg, which he needed to be. Better to give it a wake-up smack than sitting like a prat on a horse that's switching off and going splat at the next fence... she had to sharpen him up to get him to react better at the final water, that was good reactive riding. 
I've not ridden at 4* but I've ridden at Advanced and 3* and sometimes you absolutely can't just sit happily there and trust that it'll all be lovely, you HAVE to react quickly and say "Come ON, you need to try for me NOW".
She looked very tired at the end - hence, I imagine, not patting him. must admit I do like to see them make much of their horses, I'm a fluffy bunny like that   but he was probably a exhausting horse to ride.
I'm very pernickety but if that was my horse I'd be very happy with how she'd managed to get him round clear.


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## ellie_e (5 September 2011)

Well said Kerilli!!!


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## glamourpuss (5 September 2011)

kerilli said:



			Crikey, I REALLY can't believe this. 
Are you all watching the same video as me? Seriously?
No more hints, we are talking about Pippa Funnell on Pure Addiction, yes?
I have not been backwards in being critical on here before, and would say something now if I thought there was anything amiss, but I really cannot see what you are all going on about. The horse was NOT looking 'knackered' at all imho. He was travelling well between the fences, not losing his action at all, or wobbling (exhausted horses do, I've seen it). Maybe she got him a fraction deep/slow to the penultimate so he didn't jump across it as well as he could have, ditto the last perhaps, but that's NOT terrible horse abuse. As for her hitting him here and there - yes, because he wasn't being sharp off the leg, which he needed to be. Better to give it a wake-up smack than sitting like a prat on a horse that's switching off and going splat at the next fence... she had to sharpen him up to get him to react better at the final water, that was good reactive riding. 
I've not ridden at 4* but I've ridden at Advanced and 3* and sometimes you absolutely can't just sit happily there and trust that it'll all be lovely, you HAVE to react quickly and say "Come ON, you need to try for me NOW".
She looked very tired at the end - hence, I imagine, not patting him. must admit I do like to see them make much of their horses, I'm a fluffy bunny like that   but he was probably a exhausting horse to ride.
I'm very pernickety but if that was my horse I'd be very happy with how she'd managed to get him round clear.
		
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Thank you Kerilli! It would seem that you and I are watching the same round!  

I would like the 'Pippa bashers' that are saying she should have pulled up/ been pulled up to watch the whole video and tell us EXACTLY where they think the horse was struggling and where it should have been pulled up. I'm totally intrigued by this.


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## MissSBird (5 September 2011)

Well said Kerilli!

Cross country is not dressage. You can't sit there and look perfectly elegant all the time. I can't think of one eventer who's ever managed to do that!


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## Ferdinase514 (5 September 2011)

Looking forwards to seeing you all riding at Badminton, in the spring.

Am sure Pippa Funnell is loosing sleep over not receiving your 4* horses, for training.

Bunch of armchair critics, who couldn't ride one side of a 4* horse, the lot of you.


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## glamourpuss (5 September 2011)

I'm also amazed that such a big thing is being made of the horse being tired. Of course the horse is tired, its galloped and jumped around a 4* eventing course on "speed and endurance' day (hint: There's a big clue in its name....it tests the endurance of the horse) . Whenever I've run a marathon I feel pretty pooped afterwards.  

On the course walk Captain Mark Philips makes comments about how there are different questions because 'the horse will be tired'. It is expected.

I've watched this round again (3 times now) and far from bashing Pippa to me it demonstrates some great, effective and reactionary riding which resulted in a clear round. Pretty fab I think.


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## Chloe..x (5 September 2011)

Actually can't believe what I'm reading! First it was Mark Todd at Badminton and NZB Land Vision who went on to win after supposedly beating round a tired horse...
Burghley, we've had Oli Townend now the bashing has moved on to Pippa Funnell. I think you lot need to take some time out and watch the entire video of her round on YouTube. The 2nd water wasn't tired but it was the horses first 4*, it didn't look too keen in the first water either so maybe it does tend to back off in water. Nobody knows the horse apart from Pippa and the owners, if a horse doesn't like water then pulling it up in water isn't gonna help really. Pure Addiction seemed to jump the hurdles in the arena fine and the 2nd to last was a complete wrong stride. Just like OT, but OT didn't get away with his mistake whereas Pippa did.

I'm sure the only rider to complete the Rolex Grand Slam will love all the advice from you armchair critics.

I wonder who will be next, Andrew Nicholson maybe??


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## PooJay (5 September 2011)

Chloe..x said:



			I wonder who will be next, Andrew Nicholson maybe??
		
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 i'd stick up for him anyday. Phwooarrr


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## ellie_e (5 September 2011)

FinnMcCoul said:



			Looking forwards to seeing you all riding at Badminton, in the spring.

Am sure Pippa Funnell is loosing sleep over not receiving your 4* horses, for training.

Bunch of armchair critics, who couldn't ride one side of a 4* horse, the lot of you.
		
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This made me laugh out loud!! Very true!! id like to see them jumping a 4* xc course twice in one day!


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## Custard Cream (5 September 2011)

Some people need to spend a day watching over 100 competitors going round a BE Intro course to see real examples of bad riding, knackered riders and knackered (and fat) horses before commenting on the professionals.


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## Angua2 (5 September 2011)

Chloe..x said:



			Actually can't believe what I'm reading! First it was Mark Todd at Badminton and NZB Land Vision who went on to win after supposedly beating round a tired horse...
Burghley, we've had Oli Townend now the bashing has moved on to Pippa Funnell. I think you lot need to take some time out and watch the entire video of her round on YouTube. The 2nd water wasn't tired but it was the horses first 4*, it didn't look too keen in the first water either so maybe it does tend to back off in water. Nobody knows the horse apart from Pippa and the owners, if a horse doesn't like water then pulling it up in water isn't gonna help really. Pure Addiction seemed to jump the hurdles in the arena fine and the 2nd to last was a complete wrong stride. Just like OT, but OT didn't get away with his mistake whereas Pippa did.

I'm sure the only rider to complete the Rolex Grand Slam will love all the advice from you armchair critics.

I wonder who will be next, Andrew Nicholson maybe??
		
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I agree with this.

I am an admitted armchair critic, and to me there was nothing there that would make me excessivly concerned.  The horse did not look easy, with times that it really wasn't listening - added to which and it was it's first time round a 4* course which even the course builder said it would be testing

At the end of the day, we mearly observers, and cannot truly say how we would react when put in the same position.


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## kerilli (5 September 2011)

Custard Cream said:



			Some people need to spend a day watching over 100 competitors going round a BE Intro course to see real examples of bad riding, knackered riders and knackered (and fat) horses before commenting on the professionals.
		
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Hahaha exactly. I've seen horrific sights up to 1* level, riders who shouldn't even be attempting to go xc yet imho, and yet nobody dares say a word (even in favour of their poor horses getting a break!) we all have to be PC... yet here we have one of the best riders in the world doing a really good job on a first-timer over one of the biggest 4* tracks seen for years, and some people feel justified in ripping her apart... ffs.

re: crit of use of whip, I'm just watching the vid of AN on Avebury, and after the Cascade fence he gives the horse a couple of good cracks because it dwelt a bit as it came off the floor to the brush, he felt the tiny hesitation and decided it needed a 'COME on' wake-up call, absolutely the right thing to do to get the horse 100% with him. I am SO glad we haven't heard any 'oh no, he smacked his poor pony' comments about that... yet.     get real guys, this isn't minimus, and also please let's not forget that the way it feels and the way it looks can be a way apart...


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## Cyberchick (5 September 2011)

Like many I watched the BBC yesterday and I was a bit horrified at what I saw, however I have just watched the whole round and I take it all back, really can't see an issue. Why the BBC chose to show that bit at the end, where people like myself did not get to see the whole round is a bit off I think.


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## Cadfael&Coffee (5 September 2011)

Rach_W said:



			If you take the time to watch the rest of the round, you will see that it is only the last few fences over which the horse struggles.  The rest of the time he is taking a good hold and clearly not giving the rider an easy ride.  I think she did well to get them home safely.
		
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^^ this

the horse was fighting for the first 5 minutes, and after that started to make stupid mistakes as he had tired himself out.

She did pat him on the neck after every fence that i could see, but i do believe she should have MAYBE retired him after the water spectacle- the horse was tired enough to begin to be dangerous over those fences.

she did well to bring him home safely, but i think there was also an element of luck to that. however, she did, and she did reward him at every fence, so who am i to judge?


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## Saratoga (5 September 2011)

Maybe a lot of this has to do with the BBC coverage of her round? I have to admit, when watching the short clips yesterday on BBC I immediately thought why didn't she pull up?? But I've just watched her round on Burghley TV and the only fences where he really struggled and she really had to work hard was the three they showed! (water, last couple of fences). 

He just seemed to hit the wall, and get very tired. She did what she had to do to get him home. I bet it was totally knackering for her to get him home too, hence the way she finished. 

I am not a huge PF fan, but I have to admit here I don't think she did a lot wrong.


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## Cadfael&Coffee (5 September 2011)

Custard Cream said:



			Some people need to spend a day watching over 100 competitors going round a BE Intro course to see real examples of bad riding, knackered riders and knackered (and fat) horses before commenting on the professionals.
		
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^^ Well bloody said!!!


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## Leg_end (5 September 2011)

Saratoga said:



			Maybe a lot of this has to do with the BBC coverage of her round? I have to admit, when watching the short clips yesterday on BBC I immediately thought why didn't she pull up?? But I've just watched her round on Burghley TV and the only fences where he really struggled and she really had to work hard was the three they showed! (water, last couple of fences). 

He just seemed to hit the wall, and get very tired. She did what she had to do to get him home. I bet it was totally knackering for her to get him home too, hence the way she finished. 

I am not a huge PF fan, but I have to admit here I don't think she did a lot wrong.
		
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^^^^^ This. I saw them at the halfway point and they looked in fine form so was really surprised to see the BBC coverage yesterday which really shocked me. However, I've just watched the whole round and I cannot see a problem. Yes it was tired at the end but not as bad as some!


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## Baydale (5 September 2011)

Chloe..x said:



			Actually can't believe what I'm reading! First it was Mark Todd at Badminton and NZB Land Vision who went on to win after supposedly beating round a tired horse...
		
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I was just about to say the same, having re-watched those last few fences. Oh to live in the perfect HHO world where the ponies skip around a four star, ears pricked, rider grinning from ear to ear and patting it after every fence. Get real, folks. 

Am I imagining it or did I not read somewhere that PF said she'd done as much fitness work with these two Burghley horses as she used to do for long format, but knew now they'd need more for the next time?


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## Caledonia (5 September 2011)

I think she did really well to get him to finish - he looked like he was just emptying on her. I think he'll learn loads from that for next time. And don't forget, galloping through water is more tiring for horses than skipping along on the grass, hence the need to have him forward through the combination.


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## 9tails (5 September 2011)

Rach_W said:



			If you take the time to watch the rest of the round, you will see that it is only the last few fences over which the horse struggles.  The rest of the time he is taking a good hold and clearly not giving the rider an easy ride.  I think she did well to get them home safely.
		
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I agree with this, the horse went like the clappers out of the starting box and was strong all the way through at least the first 3/4 of the course.


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## Puppy (5 September 2011)

kerilli said:



			Crikey, I REALLY can't believe this. 
Are you all watching the same video as me? Seriously?
No more hints, we are talking about Pippa Funnell on Pure Addiction, yes?
I have not been backwards in being critical on here before, and would say something now if I thought there was anything amiss, but I really cannot see what you are all going on about. The horse was NOT looking 'knackered' at all imho. He was travelling well between the fences, not losing his action at all, or wobbling (exhausted horses do, I've seen it). Maybe she got him a fraction deep/slow to the penultimate so he didn't jump across it as well as he could have, ditto the last perhaps, but that's NOT terrible horse abuse. As for her hitting him here and there - yes, because he wasn't being sharp off the leg, which he needed to be. Better to give it a wake-up smack than sitting like a prat on a horse that's switching off and going splat at the next fence... she had to sharpen him up to get him to react better at the final water, that was good reactive riding. 
I've not ridden at 4* but I've ridden at Advanced and 3* and sometimes you absolutely can't just sit happily there and trust that it'll all be lovely, you HAVE to react quickly and say "Come ON, you need to try for me NOW".
She looked very tired at the end - hence, I imagine, not patting him. must admit I do like to see them make much of their horses, I'm a fluffy bunny like that   but he was probably a exhausting horse to ride.
I'm very pernickety but if that was my horse I'd be very happy with how she'd managed to get him round clear.
		
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/\ /\ I absolutely agree with this (well, except I haven't ridden at anywhere near the level Kerilli has )

As for the person saying that you wouldn't send a horse to her, I'd definitely consider her. My friend rode for her husband for a while and he speaks very highly of how concerned she is with her horses' welfare, and not treating them like machines, like some pros do. 

Jeez, some of the comments on this thread, and the OT bashing are ridiculous...


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## Puppy (5 September 2011)

Oh, and as I'm sure anyone else who saw Pure Addiction in the trot up yesterday morning will vouch he was plenty full of beans!


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## jellybaby2 (5 September 2011)

I feel compelled to comment on this slightly PF bashing thread. I have now watched the whole round.

It started off brilliantly, the horse was one of the best I saw through Discovery Valley, and it jumped very neatly over the bounce when most horses bunny hopped. Yes, she gave it a reminder on the take off for the Cottesmore Leap, but for all we know the horse might be a little ditchy and need a reminder. Yes, the horse tired dramatically towards the end  but I think  this was mental tiredness rather than physical tiredness. Even after the hurdles in the main arena, PF was well out of the saddle and not hurrying the horse at all. 

OK so the last 2 fences were scrappy, but that was all. The horse will have benefitted far more from finishing its first 4 star than being all touchy feely and pulling the horse up. The fact that it came out the next day, passed the trot up, and then SJed OK is tantamount to the decision that PF made to complete the course. She also patted it once it came through the finish. 

I think this thread is totally unnecessary and PF did an excellent job on a horse that will have benefitted tremendously from its first trip round a tough 4* track. 

JB x


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## walker1234 (5 September 2011)

from the original post I immediately knew who we were taking about - having seen the BBC coverage yesterday when Clare Balding said it "didnt look pretty" or words to that effect.

However.

Having then watched the whole round I don't think it was bad at all and I would gladly hand over my horse to her to ride.  

She did look totally knackered when she got back, having to be constantly on a horses case like that is much more exhausting than a nice pleasant ride.  I really doubt it is an indication of her level of fitness.


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## mahonenx (5 September 2011)

I watched her whole round, and though that other than the last part, she did an excellent job. It was his first 4* and she got round clear. The BBC were unfair to only show the last few jumps because she jumped well most of the way.

People are constantly moaning about Pippa for retiring!


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## Princess P (5 September 2011)

glamourpuss said:



			And what *is* the HHO obsession with whether or not these top riders pat their horses? Why does not patting them make them akin to Satan?
		
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I think giving your horse a pat is just a nice way to show your appreciation that they have got you round a 4* XC safely, however well he did or didn't jump he's still tried hard and got round!

Maybe I just have a very amateur view but I'm always overwhelmed with appreciation for my pony when he gets me round the piddly xc that we do, surely finishing a 4* xc deserves a pat and a scratch on the neck no matter how tired the rider is?


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## OneInAMillion (5 September 2011)

As long as Pippa felt he would carry on over the last few fences she made the absolute right decision. The horses have to learn to gallop and jump, they can't just give up on the rider. 

If you have read WFP's book What Will Be you will know that he had a problem with Chaka (I think) fighting and fighting and then dying on him. He realised that by riding him harder then the horse learnt not to fight so much and it ended up being so much better.


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## kerilli (5 September 2011)

Princess P said:



			I think giving your horse a pat is just a nice way to show your appreciation that they have got you round a 4* XC safely, however well he did or didn't jump he's still tried hard and got round!

Maybe I just have a very amateur view but I'm always overwhelmed with appreciation for my pony when he gets me round the piddly xc that we do, surely finishing a 4* xc deserves a pat and a scratch on the neck no matter how tired the rider is?


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Must admit i totally agree with this, and just cannot imagine ever being so preoccupied that i wouldn't pat my horse... I thought when Lucinda Fredericks won on Brit and was pointing down at her during her lap of honour (was it at Rolex Kentucky?) it was lovely, and really showed her appreciation for her partner. Doesn't matter how good you are as a rider, you won't get anywhere without a decent horse!


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## Twiglet (5 September 2011)

Re: the BBC's coverage, unfortunately due to lack of red button action, the coverage was limited, and the 'messy bits' make for better TV, hence it not being a representative coverage of her round. 

I do think Pure Addiction is ever so pretty


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## amage (5 September 2011)

I have not read all replies on this thread but seriously....get real people! They had a duff stride to the big white oxer and she had to keep him up to his work at the following fence the water. She coaxed him on & got him jumping again and given how sweetly he popped through the gymnastic exercise of three hurdles each two strides apart I really think people have a cheek to be slating her saying how exhausted blah bla blah the horse was. There is no way an exhausted horse would have popped those three so sweetly and tidily if he was completely strung out! She gave him a few reminders here and there and the key thing is he responded....had he not responded then yes she'd have been at nothing and should have pulled him up but she got a response and a positive one. He pricked his ears and got home. For all any of us now he is a lazy type that has to be kept up to his work, she felt he went a bit green etc. Not so many years ago she used to get slated on here for pulling up!! Its nearly the end of the season, the horse will get a good break and have learnt from his experience!


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## Goldenstar (5 September 2011)

I think she did a good job to bring him home clear , he did not give her a easy ride and she was using all her skill and experience to get the job done he did look really tired at the last two but walked around happily at the finish. PF did look exhausted and I should think she will not be happy with that.
She is one of the best producer of young horses in the world and would pull up a horse in competion if she felt she should , I seem to remember she pulled up Primores Pride during the cross country during one of his early team appearances when he tired.( and got a lot of flac for it )


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## Tanta (5 September 2011)

Having been at Burghley an the Saturday and seen a lot of the riders finish, the one who stood out to me for lack of consideratrion of the horse was an american lady rider, not one I'd heard of before, who as she came over the finish line socked her poor horse in the teeth to bring it back to walk, and then started talking to her supporters on the ground - no pat or check to see if the horse was ok - just a selfish act to get it back to walk rather than work it down carefully.

At the other extreme, all the best riders worked their horses down carefully in trot and canter, before getting off them - shows the difference between a proper horseperson and one who is not....


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## Piglet (5 September 2011)

Ouch!  Most of the round shown on the You tube link seemed to be good (am into dressage and showing) to my relatively inexperienced eyes but the last group of fences look very uncomfortable for horse, he did look rather tired and maybe she should have pulled up - but are we not always wise after the event?


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## Honey08 (5 September 2011)

kerilli said:



			Hahaha exactly. I've seen horrific sights up to 1* level, riders who shouldn't even be attempting to go xc yet imho, and yet nobody dares say a word (even in favour of their poor horses getting a break!) we all have to be PC... yet here we have one of the best riders in the world doing a really good job on a first-timer over one of the biggest 4* tracks seen for years, and some people feel justified in ripping her apart... ffs.

Heck there are even a shed load of pictures of HHOers messing up fences on here aren't there.  Remember the "Show me your jumping bloopers" thread? At various levels!  Hope none of these experts are on there!  Anyone who has not messed up the odd fence at some point is telling porkies!
		
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## BEUnderTheInfluence (5 September 2011)

Pippa said herself something along the lines of "He's not a thoroughbred, therefore got very tired towards the end and I think everything had to go back to throwing the 'pretty/stylishness' out the window and focus on being effective, getting back to real horsemanship"

You people drive me nuts, judgemental of a rider that would be the first to put her hand up and retire if SHE felt it was right and appropriet to do so. 

God help her if the H&H forum members, sat on their backsides with their coffe and lapdogs and pictures of "sandy and bronty" on the mantlepeice start stewing over how one of the worlds best riders is using her skills and common sense to bring an enexperienced, tired horse home the best she can.

Get real people....it shows how narrow minded you all are that you only critique the top names after a big 4* has been on TV.

If you want to see some genuinley appalling riding you can look no further than your local hunter trials. Trust me.


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## mrussell (5 September 2011)

Good lord... I forgot how dodgy HHO is ! If its not bashing the Professionals themselves , its bashing those who post an opinion (good bad or indifferent) about them.  Beleive it or not, the level at which you ride has little or no bearing on your ability to have an opinion about what you see others doing. Horse welfare is something we ALL have a vested interest in.  My vet doesnt even ride but he can see a horse which is in distress.  Shall I tell him that until he can jump my horse as big as I can, he should keep his opinions to himself ? 

If you, as a horse lover, didnt like what you saw then you can bet your bottom dollar that there are countless others also thinking the same. Some of those might be big cheeses at the BBC and some might be small crackers on the HHO forum but we all watched it and are free to make up our own minds about it.  You can blame who you like; the rider, the horse, the BBC, the weather, the course...  but the fact remains that watching anyone over riding at or between fences on a labouring horse is never pleasant to watch.  Whether it be the last fence or the first.  I am just glad it didnt end in disaster for horse or rider.

*sigh*


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## Mithras (5 September 2011)

It is pretty obvious from the full video that towards the end she felt the horse go slightly flat on her, was ensuring he was still going forwards and then doubly ensuring that the jump was safe by going on a shorter, more adjusted stride.  Far better than pushing a horse on a long stride and risking a fall.  Yes, perhaps it was not a perfect round (although it was clear) with an experienced horse finishing fresh, but there can only be one winner - ifs unrealistic to expect in this discipline that every round be the same.  The horse did seem to tire towards the end of the course, but it was still picking up its legs over the jumps and galloping well between fences, no reason to pull up.  

Any human endurance athlete will tell you that it generally takes years of competition to build up to being competitive in an endurance event.  You can only do so much in training.


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## Saratoga (5 September 2011)

As my previous post, I don't think in this instance Pippa did anything wrong.

HOWEVER.....it's threads on forums like these that help people to learn. If we were all to bow down to professional riders because they are professional, or believe them to do no wrong because of who they are, then we wouldn't learn from their mistakes.

They are in the public eye, and ANYONE in the public eye will be criticised, when they do wrong and when they don't.

It just may make people think twice before they make a mistake with their own horse.


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## Baydale (5 September 2011)

Saratoga said:



			As my previous post, I don't think in this instance Pippa did anything wrong.

HOWEVER.....it's threads on forums like these that help people to learn. If we were all to bow down to professional riders because they are professional, or believe them to do no wrong because of who they are, then we wouldn't learn from their mistakes.

They are in the public eye, and ANYONE in the public eye will be criticised, when they do wrong and when they don't.

It just may make people think twice before they make a mistake with their own horse.
		
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But to learn from their mistakes surely we would have to have some insight into how that horse felt at the time, why they rode that way, any history that may have influenced the situation etc? That would then be a great learning tool, but to base our "education" on heresay, gossip and everything always looking perfect is in my opinion unrealistic.


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## OneInAMillion (5 September 2011)

BEUnderTheInfluence said:



			If you want to see some genuinely appalling riding you can look no further than your local hunter trials. Trust me.
		
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*So* true.


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## AMH (5 September 2011)

I think the criticism should be for the BBC coverage. I was actually going to post on here to ask if anyone else had seen the whole round, since I was quite shocked by the very minimal clips I saw - the way it was cut together suggested that the horse was struggling.

Definitely didn't want to criticise, just wanted to make sure that it was, as I thought, a case of poor editing.


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## kerilli (5 September 2011)

AMH said:



			I think the criticism should be for the BBC coverage. I was actually going to post on here to ask if anyone else had seen the whole round, since I was quite shocked by the very minimal clips I saw - the way it was cut together suggested that the horse was struggling.

Definitely didn't want to criticise, just wanted to make sure that it was, as I thought, a case of poor editing.
		
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Agreed, horrible editing. Having now watched the BBC version (sky+box playing up so it took ages to persuade it to play) they only showed the bad bits at the end of poor old Pippa's round, and if the whole round had been like that I agree she might have been expected to pull up... but it wasn't, most of it was excellent.
BBC being sensationalist obv, needing to show those Thrills 'n' Spills and 'n' 'Eeek' moments...


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## SpottedCat (5 September 2011)

The trouble is, 99% of the people doing the highlights shows know pretty much nothing about horses/riding/eventing - so they pick the bits which interest them, as the uninformed public. It's a bit like the highlights of F1 - the last few laps and all the crashes/overtakes/near misses. 

I did get asked at Badminton one year why I hadn't logged anyone at fence 9 because they wanted some of fence 9 in the highlights show....ummmm....you don't have a camera at fence 9....


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## TableDancer (5 September 2011)

Just to say, it is because of threads like these that I don't come on HHO anymore - I saw something on Facebook that made me come on to see what was bring referred to and I wish I hadn't bothered and had left you lot of ignorant, self-righteous, self-important b*tches to snuffle away to yourselves undisturbed  As to the voices of reason (you know who you are ) all respect to you that you take the time to try and put people straight, but history suggests you are wasting your time 

Oh, and one last thing, I had accepted that the armchair critics are incompetent but I hadn't realised they are also blind: it is very clear on the YouTube link supplied (which could be titled "A Masterclass in how to get a slightly green horse safely round its first 4* event") 
that Pippa is already stroking his neck after the last fence BEFORE she even passes through the finish...

Now, I am SO out of here  *waves goodbye*


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## MadBlackLab (5 September 2011)

Rach_W said:



			If you take the time to watch the rest of the round, you will see that it is only the last few fences over which the horse struggles.  The rest of the time he is taking a good hold and clearly not giving the rider an easy ride.  I think she did well to get them home safely.
		
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I agree its only as the horse was getting tired and you can say by how it jumps it is getting tired. If watched from the start this horse had a lovely round. i do not believe the whip was used excessively but to encourage. This a 4 star event and is suppose to test the stamina in these horses. The horse did very well and so did the rider as not naming


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## 1t34 (5 September 2011)

I watched this expecting to be horrified, with a horse labouring over the fences, unbalanced rider and being beaten to within an inch of its life! - I think I must be watching something different as horse and rider looked fine to me, not even that knackered, don't think it even touched a fence all round - crikey goodness knows what you would make observing a days hunting (even over small vale country) with much flapping, eyewatering missers all accompanied with eyes tight shut, alcohol and fags to settle the nerves!!!


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## BeckyD (5 September 2011)

kerilli said:



			Agreed, horrible editing. Having now watched the BBC version (sky+box playing up so it took ages to persuade it to play) they only showed the bad bits at the end of poor old Pippa's round, and if the whole round had been like that I agree she might have been expected to pull up... but it wasn't, most of it was excellent.
BBC being sensationalist obv, needing to show those Thrills 'n' Spills and 'n' 'Eeek' moments...   

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I agree - I saw her at the Dairy Mound and she gave the horse a couple of necessary smacks to say "oi, get on" I thought, and got safely up and over the combination.  I was impressed by her lightening-quick reaction to keep the horse motivated as you really wouldn't want a horse to falter halfway up that bounce thing!  I think the BBC clips are very much shown out of context.


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## Flame_ (5 September 2011)

mrussell said:



			Good lord... I forgot how dodgy HHO is ! If its not bashing the Professionals themselves , its bashing those who post an opinion (good bad or indifferent) about them.  Beleive it or not, the level at which you ride has little or no bearing on your ability to have an opinion about what you see others doing. Horse welfare is something we ALL have a vested interest in.  My vet doesnt even ride but he can see a horse which is in distress.  Shall I tell him that until he can jump my horse as big as I can, he should keep his opinions to himself ? 

If you, as a horse lover, didnt like what you saw then you can bet your bottom dollar that there are countless others also thinking the same. Some of those might be big cheeses at the BBC and some might be small crackers on the HHO forum but we all watched it and are free to make up our own minds about it.  You can blame who you like; the rider, the horse, the BBC, the weather, the course...  but the fact remains that watching anyone over riding at or between fences on a labouring horse is never pleasant to watch.  Whether it be the last fence or the first.  I am just glad it didnt end in disaster for horse or rider.

*sigh*
		
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Oh thank you for posting this. This thread has reminded me why I don't come in here. How far up your own backsides can some of you people get?


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## shelbug (5 September 2011)

I don't post on here much, am more of a lurker but wanted to throw my two-pennance in fwiw. Wasn't it after last years Burghley that everyone on here was saying how brilliant it was to see Pippa back at 4* level again after time out of it due to lack of horsepower, as well as other things? Also, we have all this Oli and Pippa bashing going on but people seem to have forgotten back to the olympics (or whenever it was) when a certain kiwi rider was riding his older, very experience horse in its last competition, he pushed him too far, made a terrible error and paid the price, and afterwards did not check his horse straight away. Back then he was considered the devil himself but he seems to have become a hero again, people's opinions will always sway with the current time I guess. I've never ridden to 4* level or anywhere near, but used to groom for a rider who competed very sucessfully at that level, and we were at Burghley the year Pippa did her grand slam there, and were only three stables away from her. Believe me you will not find a rider on the circuit who cares more about her horses, or will pull them out of a competition if she is not happy. She is also well aware of how much in the public eye she is and that is a massive amount of pressure to have to deal with. The horses going around 4* level and riders all have to be qualified, I don't know how it is now but they certainly used to have completed 2 CCI*** events before going 4*. It takes months of preparation to get there, all the fitness work, strick diet programme, through competition plan, and a little bit of luck just to be able to get in the lorry and drive there before you have even begun the competition. The riders certainly are not there just to have  school because they have got a bit bored of Tweseldown! I expect if I ever got a horse of my own to Burghley it probably wouldn't be fit enough to get around because it would have spent the last few weeks leading up to the event in its stable with just a couple of airholes to allow it to breathe through all the cotton wool it would be wrapped in!!! xxx


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## Fellewell (5 September 2011)

He completely lost his focus and she did well to get him round the course at all. I don't think she showed exhaustion as much as sheer relief at the end.


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## CalllyH (5 September 2011)

Watch them do the leaf pit that was not bad at all, the horse sailed out of it


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## angelish (5 September 2011)

TableDancer said:



			Just to say, it is because of threads like these that I don't come on HHO anymore - I saw something on Facebook that made me come on to see what was bring referred to and I wish I hadn't bothered and had left you lot of ignorant, self-righteous, self-important b*tches to snuffle away to yourselves undisturbed  As to the voices of reason (you know who you are ) all respect to you that you take the time to try and put people straight, but history suggests you are wasting your time 

Oh, and one last thing, I had accepted that the armchair critics are incompetent but I hadn't realised they are also blind: it is very clear on the YouTube link supplied (which could be titled "A Masterclass in how to get a slightly green horse safely round its first 4* event") 
that Pippa is already stroking his neck after the last fence BEFORE she even passes through the finish...

Now, I am SO out of here  *waves goodbye*
		
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take heart TD there are still a lot of people in here who are simply not getting involved in these "bashing" threads as i am shure i'm not the only one keeping out of it (until now)
please don't leave on the account of a few people who hide behind comp screens and start typing without knowing the full facts 

i for one agree and can't see any wrong doing on PF's part and isn't it fab to see her back at 4* ,well done p for carrying that horse over the last few fences 

although that is only my arm chair opinion as i have only gone around a few 90s so who am i to know anyway


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## glenruby (5 September 2011)

I mentioned this in a thread yesterday. The way she rode the last 2mins15sec of the 7min round was less than impressive. What is admirable about pushing a flagging horse over nforgiving fences?

This horse looks seriously impressive - look at the first half of the round. ho wouldnt want to be on board? But his fitness isnt adequate for the course. The lst 4 jumps or so were bordering on dangerous - I saw a horse who lacked the energy to pick up his feet safely. If this was racing he would have been pulled up after the first 5minutes. To me this wasnt a confident giving round for an inexperienced horse - the first half was but the second could easily have undone all her good work. After the water was a good time to retire.

Hnestly, you would expect better from someone as experienced and talented a rider as P. I admire her as a rider but she got it all wrong here (also ooks to be lacking a little in fitness herself).

ETA - Just to say, I havent read the pprevious 10 pages so not sure what everyone else has said.


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## JoJo_ (5 September 2011)

I've just watched the round on youtube and thought the first half was good and the second half was Pippa nursing a green horse home. Someone with lesser ability than her wouldnt have made it. Yes the horse seems to tire a bit but I think a more experienced horse would have got on with it and this one needed the encouragement. Perhaps it was ignoring her leg so needed a smack to get him to pick up over the last fences. He did look bloody hard work. I dont think Pippa should be slated as much as some of you have done on this thread. Afterall its not like most of you could even attempt to ride at her level. The horse is none the worse and will have taken a lot of experience from his first time at 4*.


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## racingdemon (5 September 2011)

Haven't read all the posts, but wanted to add, that until you have been galloping full tilt with a double handful towards a fence & then a stride away all the lights go out & if you don't kick & push & scrap a bit you know you will have dirt in your teeth (& everyone behind you gallop over you), it's very different sat on top, (I'm talking about racing, but it's exactly the same, you're thinking you've got 3 to jump, increase the speed, fuel in the tank & suddenly just don't have the mental strength to keep giving, so you have to react, at it's first 4* no one knows when that point is, & it's the difference between great horses & good horses....


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## pinktiger (5 September 2011)

i havent read all the replies but  afew of them shock me!! This girl is clearly very good at what she does and rather than being appauled at the vid i actually take my hat off to her!! What a cracking rider, not worried about sitting pretty, just being really really effective, the horse had taps where it was backing off and she had a few hairy moments but anyone thats ever ridden xc and ment it HAS!!  Fair play to the rider she picked that horse up and carried it round!!!!


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## Princecharming (5 September 2011)

I don't see the problem with her round either. She openly admits that the horse can be lazy and riding something who is lazy round a track like that must be absolutely exhausting!!! Its easy to sit on a horse thats taking you forward into every fence, but she worked twice as hard as most. I think Pippa did an absolutely fantastic job getting them both round safe. He did look a bit tired towards the end but how many times have you taken a horse x country who can one week go like Billy stink and the next week need a big pony club kick and a tap up every so often. They aren't machines. I don't think any of us need to ask the question of wether she should have retired or not, she's more capable than all of us at making the decision herself...


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## teapot (5 September 2011)

For those of you moaning about her not patting her horse, she's already doing before the finish flags. 

Don't see anyone berating Mary King for waving to the crowd instead of her patting her horse...


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## Amaranta (5 September 2011)

I really don't know why people feel they can knock the professionals when they have no idea what it is to ride a fit event horse round a course like Burghley.

The round was not nearly so bad as it has been made out to be and I think Pippa did well to get him round.


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## kerilli (5 September 2011)

glenruby said:



			But his fitness isnt adequate for the course. The lst 4 jumps or so were bordering on dangerous - I saw a horse who lacked the energy to pick up his feet safely.
		
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Please watch again. The horse was jumping really clean in front, if anything he was overjumping upwards slightly and not going across his fences (something wbs can do imho, whereas tbs tend to get flatter, when tired) which is why he was hitting them coming down. totally different to not getting high enough and hitting them on the way up... nothing like as dangerous for starters.
he was travelling well between fences. she nursed him home, and she didn't get the best of shots to the last 2, which didn't help her cause at all.
as racingdemon said, unless you've been in a similar position on a horse (not necessarily at that level though) you really shouldn't say "she should have pulled up". that horse has probably NEVER been asked to dig that deep before, so there was no way of knowing how he'd react. she nursed him home clear, with time penalties. admirable riding, very gutsy... if anything the gutsiest round i've ever seen her do. as said elsewhere, it's far easier to sit pretty when they're cruising easily for you...


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## BEUnderTheInfluence (5 September 2011)

Alltheprettyhorses said:



			Well, when it comes to choosing a rider for my eventer it will definitely NOT be the lady who hit her horse so often I lost count, flapped and bounced about on his back and didn't even pat the poor brute when he eventually struggled over the finishing line.  Naming no names but we all know who it is. Shameful.=QUOTE]

I didn't see at any point her "bouncing around" or hitting the horse, and, not to be rude but I think you'd be rather flaming lucky to have her ride one of your horses.....not gonna happen really is it?
		
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## jenbleep (5 September 2011)

I watched the whole video this morning and didn't see what the fuss was about but was on my way to work so couldn't post! I said I thought the horse looked tired towards the end but couldn't comment on the rest of the video - well I thought they both did alright, horse was complacent over that water combination hence the smacks from the whip which is justified imo (I do it all the time if I think C has lost concentration or being a lazy b****!) it's a question of safety - I would rather give her a smack so she wakes up and we get home safely than have to drag her off some jump because I was too 'nice!' 

Pippa wasn't beating her horse. How about a horse smacked at least three times after they were eliminated?! What's the point in that? (And yes steward did ask to see the rider! Local agri. show)

Oh and how fun does this horse look to ride over the 2nd? Only over the 2nd, it looks a bit difficult for me the rest of the time


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## CalllyH (5 September 2011)

teapot said:



			For those of you moaning about her not patting her horse, she's already doing before the finish flags. 

Don't see anyone berating Mary King for waving to the crowd instead of her patting her horse... 

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Mary king talks and pats her horses all the way round. It's lovely to see when she's saying come on that's it good boy and giving him a quick pat as they gallop round. And still waves and smiles at the crowd, she always looks so relaxed and smiles the whole way round.


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## OneInAMillion (5 September 2011)

Have any of you watched her SJ round?

http://www.youtube.com/BurghleyTV#p/u/24/cMYvOQLEKLc

PA doesn't look like a horse that has suffered the day before.


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## Ditchjumper2 (5 September 2011)

Well done Pippa, well ridden.

No doubt all those who think she was hard and cruel on PA are the ones who own horses that don't tie up, load, stand still or have any manners because they are too soft to realise that occasionally you have to be tough to get results.  I know which I prefer.  Off back to hunting ................


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## paisley (5 September 2011)

Alltheprettyhorses said:



			Well, when it comes to choosing a rider for my eventer it will definitely NOT be the lady who hit her horse so often I lost count, flapped and bounced about on his back and didn't even pat the poor brute when he eventually struggled over the finishing line.  Naming no names but we all know who it is. Shameful.

Well, your loss frankly. You would be pushed to find a rider who cares for her horses well-being as much as Pip does. And in terms of the attention to detail and standards, I doubt very much you could even come close.

She did a fine job of riding a horse round his first 4* You can never tell how they will react as its just such a big step up from 3* He was getting a little tired towards the end, but despite a couple of sticky jumps, picked up and moved away from the leg after each fence after landing.

Really tired horses dont do that. If Pippa had felt he was not coping, she would have pulled him up, its that simple. She would much rather save them for another day.
		
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## glenruby (5 September 2011)

I have to disagree to an extent Kerilli - I have no interest in competing in eventing but having ridden racehorses regularly(as a work-rider) i can (to an extent) relate to the feel of a tiring horse over fences. Of course you need to be proactive and keep the horse alert - far better to be effective than pretty. I dont think he picked up between fences (perhaps you could agree he stayed on but it wasnt an opportunity to recover for the next fence - she had time penalties to be thinking of too) and bar the last dont think he overjumped any of the fences. I also dont think she "beat him" as someone else put it, but when he did not respond (no obvious increase in forwardness/impulsion) when smacked then either she should have eased up and forgot about chasing the time and nurse him around or pulled up. 

Upto 4mins45 the round (and P's riding) was exemplary but imo there were few positives from the last 1/3rd. If the horse had only looked to be tiring over te last 2 fences then it would be fair enough to continue on but it took over 2mins to get home from there.

For what its worth, I didnt think he looked lazy by any means - though tht might be because of the class of rider he had on top! 

ETA - Kerilli , I didnt get what you meant by not really getting across his fences(was picturing him going sideways lol,) but yes, what I felt showed his tiredness was the fact he was putting down too soon - both can result in injury just not as likely to have a rotational fall perhaps. Also, the time to be asking a horse to dig deep for the first time is at home during fittening work IMO not at a very public 4star event. Sure you can get caught out a bit and his fighting against he will have used up a lot of energy but to me he just lacked a little fitness/stamina for THAT event. As you've said I dont compete at 4 star so I dont know how Burghley x country compares to other 4 stars. Either way, this horse is definitely one for the future.


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## xspiralx (5 September 2011)

I thought PF did a fab job. The horse didn't look easy - he was clearly strong and taking a lot of riding - in a snaffle wasn't he?

By the end he was tiring but instead of going flat was getting stronger and she needed even more strength to keep him together and focused on the job in hand - so no, it wasn't pretty but it was effective.

She didn;t bounce on his back either - her upper body collapsed slightly but she didn't flop into the saddle at all.

Really excellent riding on a tricky horse - he'll be the better for that.


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## OneInAMillion (5 September 2011)

glenruby said:



			ETA - Kerilli , I didnt get what you meant by not really getting across his fences(was picturing him going sideways lol,) but yes, what I felt showed his tiredness was the fact he was putting down too soon - both can result in injury just not as likely to have a rotational fall perhaps. Also, the time to be asking a horse to dig deep for the first time is at home during fittening work IMO not at a very public 4star event. Sure you can get caught out a bit and his fighting against he will have used up a lot of energy but to me he just lacked a little fitness/stamina for THAT event. As you've said I dont compete at 4 star so I dont know how Burghley x country compares to other 4 stars. Either way, this horse is definitely one for the future.
		
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He wasn't "getting across the fences" because he was putting too much effort into jumping too high over the fences and because he was more tired was coming down more steeply rather than just jumping the width of the fence


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## LizzyandToddy (5 September 2011)

Who's to say she didn't pat the horse a few minutes after the television moved away? :/ Don't see why people are quite so worked up over something so small!!


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## glenruby (5 September 2011)

Yes - OIAM thats what I(we?) are saying.


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## OneInAMillion (5 September 2011)

glenruby said:



			Yes - OIAM thats what I(we?) are saying.
		
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Sorry, meant to edit to change what I'd said to those of you that are moaning not those that are backing PF


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## jenbleep (5 September 2011)

I didn't want to make a new post as it's only a small comment but I've just been watching the Burghley TV Channel o Youtube and smiled throughout Lucinda Fredericks round with Prada - what an amazing little horse! (Or tall rider?!) 

Was it Lucinda who yelled "whoo hoo" after the ditch and brush fence? (Sorry don't know fence number!) I don't care if she was flapping I thought it was brilliant


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## Pachamama (5 September 2011)

I don't recall Pippa EVER being the most stylish of riders, but she DOES get the job done and her record speaks for itself. I was at Burghley and did think Pure Addiction looked tired going through the second water. HOWEVER, some horses are more careless than others and I think Pippa did well to get him home safely. Several years ago I was quite friendly with Phoebe Buckley and she told me about a mare she was riding that needed reminding EVERY single fence what her job was and she would say "Yeah yeah" and get on with the job. If she didn't get a smack she took the piss. She may've been talking about Frostie, I don't recall. The moral of the story is horses for courses. Not all horses are equal; just because YOUR horse may need coaxing round, doesn't mean Pippa's does and she _probably_ knows him better than we do and I _dare say_ has a tiny bit more experience than the rest of us....
FTR I don't believe in the 'You can't comment until you've ridden at this level...' arguments; I can't sing a note but I can tell when someone is rubbish on X-Factor...


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## rhino (5 September 2011)

jenbleep said:



			Lucinda Fredericks round with Prada - what an amazing little horse! (Or tall rider?!)
		
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Think Prada is 16/16.1 but Lucinda is quite tall - I agree it was a lovely round to watch


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## kerilli (5 September 2011)

OneInAMillion said:



			He wasn't "getting across the fences" because he was putting too much effort into jumping too high over the fences and because he was more tired was coming down more steeply rather than just jumping the width of the fence
		
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Yes, that's exactly what I meant. His parabola was too upward and not forward enough.


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## Princecharming (6 September 2011)

I agree with you Kerilli. 

As for those talking about how many times the horses are patted round, watch WFP go round. These horses are trained that when they do something right they are left alone. When they do something wrong they get a growl and a smack and when they do something exemplary they get a pat. WFP rarely pats his horses going round but he is without doubt one of the most conscientious riders around. When Cool mountain did what he did coming through the water a Lumuhlan he sat very quiet, jumped the fence out, then jumped the big hedge and then he gave his horse a well deserved pat, and I've no doubt that the horse was chuffed to bits with his pat on the neck and he had no doubts in his mind why he had got it.


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## Baggybreeches (6 September 2011)

Baydale said:



			I was just about to say the same, having re-watched those last few fences. Oh to live in the perfect HHO world where the ponies skip around a four star, ears pricked, rider grinning from ear to ear and patting it after every fence. Get real, folks. 

Am I imagining it or did I not read somewhere that PF said she'd done as much fitness work with these two Burghley horses as she used to do for long format, but knew now they'd need more for the next time? 

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Not getting involved in the whys and wherefores because I couldn't care less how anyone else thinks Pippa Funnell, Oli Townend or I ride (obviously with me being far superior!). 
A serious question Baydale, do you think that is because of the type of horses that are now 4* horses and in particular those with a little less blood, the temperature was quite warm in the afternoon and I am sure that will have had a bearing on the time/exertion levels on the horses?
And FWIW I saw that horse jump the first two fences on Burghley TV and would not want to ride it myself!


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## OneInAMillion (6 September 2011)

I don't feel heat was really a factor as it wasn't hot at all in the afternoon, it was around 17 degrees


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## MillionDollar (6 September 2011)

Do you know I was shocked that no one stopped her when I saw the round on the BBC. Now i've seen the whole round it really wasnt that bad at all!!! He was tired yes, but not struggling, if he was that tired he would have just stopped.

Don't agree with you OP at all.


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## kerilli (6 September 2011)

MillionDollar said:



			Do you know I was shocked that no one stopped her when I saw the round on the BBC. Now i've seen the whole round it really wasnt that bad at all!!! He was tired yes, but not struggling, if he was that tired he would have just stopped.

Don't agree with you OP at all.
		
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the editing was horribly selective.    did not do her or the horse justice imho.


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## Nocturnal (6 September 2011)

Threads like these make me feel like deleting my account and denying I've ever been on HHO .

Can we ask the fat controller for a Wall of Shame - to which we can banish embarrassing threads by popular demand?


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## mrussell (6 September 2011)

Nocturnal said:



			Can we ask the fat controller for a Wall of Shame - to which we can banish embarrassing threads by popular demand?
		
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Erm, that would be just about everything that gets posted on here then ...  all the posts discussing riders and all the posts bashing other users for posting in the first place   It sure is a nice forum to use at times...

Gone are the days when sensible discussion was the main feature...  these days it like a pack of wolves on here.


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## Nocturnal (6 September 2011)

mrussell said:



			Erm, that would be just about everything that gets posted on here then ...  all the posts discussing riders and all the posts bashing other users for posting in the first place   It sure is a nice forum to use at times...

Gone are the days when sensible discussion was the main feature...  these days it like a pack of wolves on here.  

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Discussing riders is one thing, but this didn't start out as a nice discussion, but as an attack on a rider who did a bl**dy good job under difficult circumstances.


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## mrussell (6 September 2011)

Nocturnal said:



			Discussing riders is one thing, but this didn't start out as a nice discussion, but as an attack on a rider who did a bl**dy good job under difficult circumstances.
		
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IMHO  it started off just like any other thread - with one user posting her opinion about what she saw.  Simple.  This was joined by other like minded people (of which I am one) who also felt that what we saw was unacceptable.  It wasnt an attack - infact the riders name wasnt even mentioned.

I think people need to calm down.  Its a public forum where we should all feel free to discuss what we think and not be worried about being personally blasted for having an opinion that differs from the main herd.


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## Baydale (7 September 2011)

Baggybreeches said:



			Not getting involved in the whys and wherefores because I couldn't care less how anyone else thinks Pippa Funnell, Oli Townend or I ride (obviously with me being far superior!). 
A serious question Baydale, do you think that is because of the type of horses that are now 4* horses and in particular those with a little less blood, the temperature was quite warm in the afternoon and I am sure that will have had a bearing on the time/exertion levels on the horses?
And FWIW I saw that horse jump the first two fences on Burghley TV and would not want to ride it myself!
		
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I'm not sure to what extent breeding has an influence on stamina in this case; obviously it does to some degree, but I don't think you can make sweeping generalisations about it. I'm sure there'll be a breeding geek who can quote some figures about successful 4 star horses and how much blood they have, but it's not my specialist subject. 

I think that some horses can cope with the heat, some can't, and I'm sure they can be conditioned to cope as our team were for the Atlanta Olympics. It wasn't that hot at Burghley, so I think those that struggled will have flagged up to their riders that they need to be fitter next time. I don't think it's an old wives' tale that getting them fit for that, or any, level is easier the second time around - vet geeks will know more than me. My view (from limited experience) is that each horse's fitness is a very individual thing - and mental strength/fitness is a factor too - so what works for one horse, regardless of breeding, type, age will not necesarily work for another.


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## LEC (7 September 2011)

I also think brain power takes up a huge amount of energy in a horse. I find with babies their brains get tired quicker than their bodies a lot and if they have only done 9 minute 3* then the extra 3 minutes will possibly just mean that they have never hit that wall. It also does seem to be the warmbloods who shut down slightly more than the full TBs. We saw it in Land Vision at Badminton and once he was picked up and told to get on with it he finished strongly. I think Pure Addiction will also come out stronger for it. 

The one horse who I always thought was so impressive but never coped with 4* was the Zara Phillips horse Glenbuck. He would get to the 8/9 minute mark and begin to look weary.


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