# Ted Update (severe hindgut acidosis)



## stilltrying (21 October 2014)

Its been a while since I posted an update on Teddy and unfortunately its not the best news. 

He was treated over the summer, initially to calm his gut, before the reintroduction of the right bacteria.  He certainly made improvements, started to pick up a bit of condition and was brought back into light work.  However he still wasnt 100%.  He was still on the poor side and rather tight looking over his back end.  Once we we took him in the school we realised he was stepping slightly short on his right hind, all connected to his gut apparently, which was an indication that he was still sore.  

Once his protocol finished the little tell tale signs that he was unhappy started creeping back, and he started getting nasty again.  We stopped riding him, his poo was re-tested and while we waited for the results he went back on the equishure, which seemed to improve things again slightly.  

The tests came back last week and unfortunately show that he is still very acidic with too much of the wrong bacteria.  The vet has said that of all the horses she has treated, he is the one that has shown the least improvement.  Chloe (his owner) has had a long chat with the vet and they have agreed to trial one more course of treatment.  I believe it will be another 10 x weeks treatment to try and stabilise before attempting to repopulate his gut with the right bacteria.  He will be assessed after the 10 weeks and if he hasnt stabilised enough then it will be time to say goodbye.  

Trying to be positive but have to say I'm now fearing the worst. Hopefully i will be proved wrong!


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## kinnygirl1 (21 October 2014)

So sorry to hear this.....is it worth trying the equishure again?  I am about to try it again with Stanley. Didn't think it helped initially but looking back think he was better whilst on it.

Sorry eta to say I see you are trying equishure again!


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## stilltrying (21 October 2014)

kinnygirl1 said:



			So sorry to hear this.....is it worth trying the equishure again?  I am about to try it again with Stanley. Didn't think it helped initially but looking back think he was better whilst on it.

Sorry eta to say I see you are trying equishure again!
		
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Haha, yes he is back on the equishure at the moment.  But to be honest whilst it did make a big improvement he still wasnt 100% on it.  I believe some people use it long term as a maintenance, but its not enough for Ted.


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## wench (21 October 2014)

I could be talking complete rubbish here, but maybe a few points to think about!

A few people on here seem to have recommended the Alltech lifeforce supplement for horses with hind gut problems. Personally myself, I found a supplement called Aquacid really helped my ulcer horse.

What's he being fed on currently?

And as a total long shot - have you considered having a "bio-energetic hair test" done on him? They test a snip of hair then give you a "remedy" that will help to solve the horses problems. Could be worth a go, although I'm sure some people will poo-poo the idea!


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## stilltrying (21 October 2014)

wench said:



			I could be talking complete rubbish here, but maybe a few points to think about!

A few people on here seem to have recommended the Alltech lifeforce supplement for horses with hind gut problems. Personally myself, I found a supplement called Aquacid really helped my ulcer horse.

What's he being fed on currently?

And as a total long shot - have you considered having a "bio-energetic hair test" done on him? They test a snip of hair then give you a "remedy" that will help to solve the horses problems. Could be worth a go, although I'm sure some people will poo-poo the idea!
		
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Thanks will pass on! : ) 

He is being fed chopped hay chaff (literally nothing other than dried chopped hay), soaked alfalfa nuts and micronised linseed (along with equishure). 

I think the vet has said that he is the worse case she has seen, which is not terribly encouraging, but i suppose gives some reason as to why the first lot of treatment helped but didn't completely fix the problem.


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## Primitive Pony (21 October 2014)

Have you tried Gastroplus? It is very expensive but seems to get excellent recommendations. Decided against myself due to the cost, though.


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## stilltrying (21 October 2014)

peh1980 said:



			Have you tried Gastroplus? It is very expensive but seems to get excellent recommendations. Decided against myself due to the cost, though.
		
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Hi, no not tried gastroplus.  Does that treat stomach ulcers or hindgut?  The gastroguard cleared his stomach ulcers, but did nothing for the hindgut. And given how his condition and state of mind got progressively worse, i'm not sure the ulcers were causing him that much grief, least not as much as the hindgut anyway?


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## alsxx (21 October 2014)

Stilltrying - I'm in Kent (near Sevenoaks) so maybe close to you? 

I have a TB that had/has HGA - in all honesty it has taken the best part of 2 years to get him completely right, and I still have to keep his management 100% spot on or things go backwards again. We never had a formal diagnosis, but it was the last thing, suggested by my vet, to try as despite having grade 4 ulcers that cleared, he was as vile as he was the day he started his GG treatment. He also suffered from laminitis, and was by all accounts, the kind of horse that shouldn't get it! There was simply no other reason for the lami, until my vet had a light bulb moment...

Mine cannot have anything with Alfalfa in.... at all. Really upsets him. 

Does your boy get grass? I wasn't sure from your post if he does.....Grass is a huge issue for me, and I have to carefully manage what he has access to graze....

We didn't do anything like repopulating the gut with bacteria. I'm interested as to how you do this, since the stomach environment is too acidic for the flora of the hindgut. Research I've read suggests pre or pro biotics (I always get the 2 mixed up!) are a bit of a waste of time for this reason. 

I used equishure on mine, for months to start with. I then started using a combination of veg oil and bicarb and have managed him really well on this. I have charcoal in my store, just in case we have an escape (into the wrong field), but also feed fenugreek, turmeric, as well as a vit/min supplement  Ive tried to optimize everything. But ultimately, it took months to settle down and get to a point where we had things under reasonable control.  Even this time last year, we had a massive flair up  Autumn is the worst time of year IMO, and when I struggle most with mine. I've read other research that oil is great for HGA horses, you can add the calories you need but without the bulk. It's been 2 years pretty much exactly now, and everyone that sees him always comments on how fab he looks, and how different to what he looked like before.


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## Primitive Pony (21 October 2014)

Yes Gastroplus (by Equine Science) is for the hindgut.


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## Scarlett (21 October 2014)

Alsxx what do you feed B now?

Stilltrying I'm really sorry to hear its not getting better. I have one who has just been diagnosed and management is proving so difficult. I hope the next update is more positive.


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## toomanynags (21 October 2014)

Have you tried stopping the linseed?


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## alsxx (21 October 2014)

Scarlett - hard feed B gets grass nuts and soaked oats, and then his various powders, inc bicarb, and oil. Forage, he has meadow haylage (tonnes of it lol!).


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## stilltrying (21 October 2014)

Hi aslxx - yes we are in Kent, nr Folkestone, so not too far away (although i work in t/wells).  Thanks for sharing, sounds very similar actually. Ted has had all manner of foot issues, which ordinarily he shouldn't have had, especially given the care and attention that Chlo gives his diet and his feet. He is still extremely footy. 

Our local vet was baffled, especially after the ulcers went.  Then Chloe found our current vet who specialises in problem cases such as these.  If you want more info on the treatment plan pm me, although i've only got the prev one, still waiting on the latest one. 

In terms of grazing, he lived out in the summer but has had his grazing restricted, was been penned off in a small area within the field with adlib hay until the others had eaten it all down, then was only let out at night and back in during the day.  He is now stabled at night and out during the day.  Given the injuries / state of rugs i think they spend the day playing at the moment rather than eating! 

Really positive to hear that you are managing though.  He has been back on the equishure for about 8 weeks now i think and appears happy enough in himself, but still not right you know? Still looks like someone has vacuum packed his back end!


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## stilltrying (21 October 2014)

toomanynags said:



			Have you tried stopping the linseed?
		
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Hi - not sure if the linseed is part of the diet prescribed by the vet or whether or not it was just okay'd by the vet...i'll ask the question.


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## Primitive Pony (21 October 2014)

Could I please ask - without wishing to hijack the thread!! - alsxx, the soaked oats - are they beneficial or just for energy? - have been trying to figure this out as I know oat flour is meant to help?


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## alsxx (21 October 2014)

Haha yep I get the vacuum packed analogy! Been there!!  if I'm honest it probably wasn't until January of this year that mine actually started properly filling out and putting muscle on; original diagnosis sep/oct 2012! In March 2013 my boy had major surgery for guttural pouch mycosis, so you could argue that this was affecting him up until that point. But even so, from then onwards that still 9 months until he actually started beefing up. 

I always know when mine is not right as he starts walking round like he has peed his pants; scuttling along with his bum tucked under him! So bloody hard to get muscle on them in the right place if they walk like that!!!!

Would be interested in the treatment plan if you don't mind sharing. I'm really interested in all of this, I think it's definitely an area where a lot more could be learnt. I wasted a lot of money on a lameness work up that resulted in no conclusive diagnosis for the right hind - absolutely sure it was his guts now! 

Re oats - I feed them only as I went back to basics, to try and feed the most basic diet I could. Obviously they are a good source of fibre though, but don't really jazz him up in terms of energy levels (I think that's a bit of a myth really). I soak them as they seem more palatable - they wet the nuts but he also poos less out when they are soaked!! ;-)


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## stilltrying (21 October 2014)

alsxx said:



			Haha yep I get the vacuum packed analogy! Been there!!  if I'm honest it probably wasn't until January of this year that mine actually started properly filling out and putting muscle on; original diagnosis sep/oct 2012! In March 2013 my boy had major surgery for guttural pouch mycosis, so you could argue that this was affecting him up until that point. But even so, from then onwards that still 9 months until he actually started beefing up. 

I always know when mine is not right as he starts walking round like he has peed his pants; scuttling along with his bum tucked under him! So bloody hard to get muscle on them in the right place if they walk like that!!!!

Would be interested in the treatment plan if you don't mind sharing. I'm really interested in all of this, I think it's definitely an area where a lot more could be learnt. I wasted a lot of money on a lameness work up that resulted in no conclusive diagnosis for the right hind - absolutely sure it was his guts now! 

Re oats - I feed them only as I went back to basics, to try and feed the most basic diet I could. Obviously they are a good source of fibre though, but don't really jazz him up in terms of energy levels (I think that's a bit of a myth really). I soak them as they seem more palatable - they wet the nuts but he also poos less out when they are soaked!! ;-)
		
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Yes! I know the scuttling...which seems 100 times worse going downhill.  That is a long recovery, but encouraging nonetheless.  Yes this has been an extremely costly affair for Chlo - insurance is now maxed out, with the largest chunk going on a bonescan, which of course showed naff all.  That is one of the reasons why I keep posting on here, as even the vets seem to know very little about it. 

If you pm me your email address i'll send over some more info : )


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## paddy555 (21 October 2014)

stilltrying said:



			.which seems 100 times worse going downhill.
		
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that is the phrase that says it all. I started Ro and Rupert on equishure due to alsyxx's comments on another forum and it has taken 2 years to get to where I am now. Rupert started to have a relapse last Oct. but I was ready for him. No idea what it is about Oct.

I tried removing alfalfa but not effect and removing linseed, again no effect. Every one of these horses seems to have different dietary needs. 

can you define Footy? Ours are barefoot and we found Rupert really did a lot better when we increased the salt. It didn't bother Rowan but Rupert noticed improved He needed double the salt and then bicarb (sodium) on top and the improvement was noticable. 

Is he footy due to  feet ie flaring, no concavity, stretched WL or are his really good in this respect and he is footy when he shouldn't be. What foot problems does he have? 

There is a lot of mental baggage as a result of this. Neither were happy about me grooming their front legs (no idea why) both unhappy about picking up hinds and it took a lot of time for them to accept grooming. I accept them biting me but when I continue to work through it they give in and then start to relax and yawn. A lot of the nasty behaviour is a front that they have learnt to protect themselves. That is not helpful as you don't really know if they are just doing it regardless or if they really have a problem at that time. Neither seem to like massage but they like firm strokes with a body brush (no banging) and this seems to mesmerise them and relax them. 
Charcoal in the eve when they come off the grass for the night to deal with any bloating effects of the grass especially at this time of the year. 

Sorry waffling! I really feel for Chloe. THis seems to be an individual thing with every horse different and I'm not sure there is a stock answer for vets to give.


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## YasandCrystal (21 October 2014)

I haven't read all of your replies, but may I ask how the horse was treated to reestablish good bacteria? 
My WB had low grade ulcers but one in the pyloric region and he was treated with gastrogard. Following that treatment he was put on a 6 week regime of green clay (with a 2 week break in the middle) and chlorella for the whole 6 weeks (no break) to reestablish the good hind gut bacteria killed off, because the GG allows undigested food through the hind gut by the way it works killing off the good bacteria in 24 hrs.
This regime was prescribed by a holistic vet at Newmarket and it worked for my horse. He showed signs of stress after the GG treatment and she instantly recognised this was symptomatic of the hind gut bacteria problem.


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## samlf (21 October 2014)

My horse had some hindgut problems caused by over fertilised and over managed grazing, however she was never nasty or difficult due to it. I would say the best thing you can do is get the horse onto grazing that is scrubby and rough and not fertilised.

That said, I know how difficult that can be when you are on livery.


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## nuttychestnut (21 October 2014)

I don't know if you have tried but have you tried soaking his hay in hot water or steaming it? I've recently started doing this with my horse (had ulcers stomach n hind gut treated with GG) I've not been able to completely clear the hind gut ones but since using hot water to soak the hay his poo is no longer water but perfect 'pony' poo! 
Took 48 hours to see a slight difference but after one week he seemed a lot happier. 
Could be worth a try as it's pretty low cost.


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## TigerTail (22 October 2014)

Can I suggest you have a look at Thunderbrooks base mix and give Dr Debbie a call - excellent feed and a v knowledgeable nutritionist - its based on micronised linseed.

[ur]lhttp://thunderbrook.co.uk[/url]


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## stilltrying (22 October 2014)

paddy555 said:



			that is the phrase that says it all. I started Ro and Rupert on equishure due to alsyxx's comments on another forum and it has taken 2 years to get to where I am now. Rupert started to have a relapse last Oct. but I was ready for him. No idea what it is about Oct.

I tried removing alfalfa but not effect and removing linseed, again no effect. Every one of these horses seems to have different dietary needs. 

can you define Footy? Ours are barefoot and we found Rupert really did a lot better when we increased the salt. It didn't bother Rowan but Rupert noticed improved He needed double the salt and then bicarb (sodium) on top and the improvement was noticable. 

Is he footy due to  feet ie flaring, no concavity, stretched WL or are his really good in this respect and he is footy when he shouldn't be. What foot problems does he have? 

There is a lot of mental baggage as a result of this. Neither were happy about me grooming their front legs (no idea why) both unhappy about picking up hinds and it took a lot of time for them to accept grooming. I accept them biting me but when I continue to work through it they give in and then start to relax and yawn. A lot of the nasty behaviour is a front that they have learnt to protect themselves. That is not helpful as you don't really know if they are just doing it regardless or if they really have a problem at that time. Neither seem to like massage but they like firm strokes with a body brush (no banging) and this seems to mesmerise them and relax them. 
Charcoal in the eve when they come off the grass for the night to deal with any bloating effects of the grass especially at this time of the year. 

Sorry waffling! I really feel for Chloe. THis seems to be an individual thing with every horse different and I'm not sure there is a stock answer for vets to give.
		
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Thanks so much, waffling is great!  Have shared with Chloe (she's v grateful for all the input!)  

In terms of his footiness, I asked chloe for an update and she has said he has a stretched white line, with thrush in his front feet, although i'd say he has pretty good concavity.  The footiness is most noticeable walking down the path to our field, it is a relatively steep, stony track.  My horse is also barefoot and he does gravitate towards the edges of the path where the leaves have fallen, but he maintains a relaxed frame as he lollops down the hill.  Ted on the other hand takes lots of tiny little steps and rushes down almost out of control, and the other day bashed his head on some overhanging branches as he was so desperate not to walk on the stones.   I wonder if it is gradient as well as the ground, as even walking downhill on flat tarmac seems harder for him than walking along the flat.  So could be combination of foot pain and balancing himself is painful too. 

Interesting that there are issues with the time of the year. I totally get that grass doesn't help, however last winter when he was at his worst, our paddock got trashed with all the wet weather so his grass intake would have been next to nothing for a couple of months. 

I know what you mean about the grumpiness and the expectation of pain.  Chloe is paranoid for obvious reasons, but I do think sometimes he just reacts with a teeth grind without anything actually bothering him, as after he will just stand with happy ears a moment later even if you touch him.


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## stilltrying (22 October 2014)

YasandCrystal said:



			I haven't read all of your replies, but may I ask how the horse was treated to reestablish good bacteria? 
My WB had low grade ulcers but one in the pyloric region and he was treated with gastrogard. Following that treatment he was put on a 6 week regime of green clay (with a 2 week break in the middle) and chlorella for the whole 6 weeks (no break) to reestablish the good hind gut bacteria killed off, because the GG allows undigested food through the hind gut by the way it works killing off the good bacteria in 24 hrs.
This regime was prescribed by a holistic vet at Newmarket and it worked for my horse. He showed signs of stress after the GG treatment and she instantly recognised this was symptomatic of the hind gut bacteria problem.
		
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Hi - I think our horse is being treated by the same vet as you, given the location and the prescription.  Glad to hear it worked for you. : ) He has made some progress, just not enough, but he is by all accounts a very bad case!


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## ceylon (22 October 2014)

I can't speak highly enough that Gastro Plus works and it deals with the entire gastric system not only with ulcers but anything to do with gastric issues.  One month's dosing and I had my horse back where stopping using the medication the problem came back.  Before it gets to the stage of pts it's worth giving Equine Science a call as they talk to you personally and get involved and I'm over the moon with this product as I say.


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## stilltrying (22 October 2014)

ceylon said:



			I can't speak highly enough that Gastro Plus works and it deals with the entire gastric system not only with ulcers but anything to do with gastric issues.  One month's dosing and I had my horse back where stopping using the medication the problem came back.  Before it gets to the stage of pts it's worth giving Equine Science a call as they talk to you personally and get involved and I'm over the moon with this product as I say.
		
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Thanks for the recommendation, and thats not the first one i've had for GP, i will definitely pass on : )


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## paddy555 (22 October 2014)

Still trying, I have emailed you a reply on your external e mail. 
Pat


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## Ellibelli (22 October 2014)

TigerTail said:



			Can I suggest you have a look at Thunderbrooks base mix and give Dr Debbie a call - excellent feed and a v knowledgeable nutritionist - its based on micronised linseed.

[ur]lhttp://thunderbrook.co.uk[/url]
		
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Definitely try this stuff - it has sorted my boy out and after years of frustration I now have my lovely happy horse back


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## stilltrying (23 October 2014)

Thanks everyone for all the recommendations, really appreciate it : )


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## fusspot (23 October 2014)

Another with a massive recommendation for Gastroplus-sorted my boy out within a couple of weeks and has not looked back-fantastic products and def worth having a chat with Deborah at Equine Science.


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## melle (24 October 2014)

Hi 

Sorry it isn't better news. The first thing that jumped out at me was when you said he was being fed alfalfa cubes. My horse cannot tolerate alfalfa in any form, even the small amounts in some chaff. She has done fantastically on copra and oats though. My horse is also being treated by the same vet and is at the second stage where we are trying to repopulate the good bacteria. Someone who hadn't seen her for a long time saw her today and said she looked like a different horse. 
Since starting the protocol her concavity and footiness have massively improved and I have noticed various other little symptoms to lessen:
Happier to be tacked up and rugged, not leaning on my left leg as much or constantly looking to the right when ridden, much bigger more swinging walk, improved topline to name a few. However she does still have off days and she does still crib bite a lot. 
The vet is saying she doesn't really need to do a repeat faecal sample until January but I don't want to get to then and discover that we need to go back to the beginning otherwise my insurance claim time will also be up.


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## melle (24 October 2014)

Almost certainly the right hind lameness would have been linked to his guts Alsxx if it has improved with your management because that is the side that the horses ceacum and liver lie (or so I have been told) and my horse's lameness was right hind too. This too has improved with my protocol from this vet


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## racingdemon (24 October 2014)

Just as a comment on this, I've a horse prone to this, and there is one field we have that no matter what time of year/state of grass he just cannot tolerate it, on close inspection the combination of types of grasses is different to my other fields & they just do not agree with him, a week of being in there & his tummy is uncomfortable, he's bad tempered & his performance decreases....

As long as I keep him out of this field, I don't have a problem.

Just a thought but It'd be worth looking closely at the types of 'grasses' that are growing in your field?


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## melle (24 October 2014)

This is a good point too - as my horse moved yards from primarily rye grass (heavily managed and fertilised) to old established pasture. This move coincided with starting the protocol from the vet so I am sure this has helped too.


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## samlf (24 October 2014)

melle said:



			This is a good point too - as my horse moved yards from primarily rye grass (heavily managed and fertilised) to old established pasture. This move coincided with starting the protocol from the vet so I am sure this has helped too.
		
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Sorry to repeat myself, but I do feel this is SO important. It is by far the main bulk of what the horses eat, even on restricted grazing, if we worry about what a handful of alfalfa cubes can do, what can 12 hours+ of grazing do to them?

I have seen such a massive difference moving my horses to rough, unfertilised but well managed grazing.


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## stilltrying (27 October 2014)

Thanks everyone, yes apparently certain fields dont agree with him.  They move between 3 fields, each very different. One an old ungrazed (until this year) orchard (very old grass that was previously topped), one well maintained paddock with decent grass (temporary) and our main field (awful! they trashed it last winter and turned it into a 5 acre bog, and whilst it is green it seems to be about 10% grass!).   Its the one in the middle that seemed to disagree with him. But they were only on that for about a month and his intake was restricted.  Chloe is forever analyzing / sniffing his poo (yuk) to see if anything is upsetting him.  

The alfalfa nuts were introduced around spring time, so after he was at his absolute worst (when he wouldn't have been eating any alfalfa) so i'm not sure they are to blame.  I recommended Chloe feed them in place of beet as i'd read that somewhere beet can sometimes upset them, even the sugar free ones.  But i think she's carried on with the beet too, so feeds a bit of both.  

He was on copra, beet and chopped hay chaff previously when he was really sick, and pretty much zero grass - as said above they ruined their paddock in the wet weather last winter and there was no grass. 

I did him over the weekend as chloe working and to my untrained eye his feet look better than my horses.  I still the apparent footiness is partly due to him being generally uncomfortable.


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## Scarlett (27 October 2014)

My HGA lad cant have beet, copra or alfalfa - the beet upsets his gut big time, so much so in 3 days he was admitted to the vet hosp because he'd got so poorly. It seems beet is a big no for hind gut issues. He's also barefoot and alfalfa does make him footy almost immediately. 

I'd really recommend taking him off of that if you can - even on Equishure mine cant get beet or alfalfa at all.

My vet got me to put him onto Rowan Barbury Solution Mash and Rice Bran for now. Literally took about 4 days and I had a much healthier, happier horse. He's totally sound now and even putting him on new grass last week hasn't caused any problems. Vet super pleased with his poo sample results too, so much so that we are going to reduce/stop the Equishure.


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## stilltrying (27 October 2014)

Scarlett said:



			My HGA lad cant have beet, copra or alfalfa - the beet upsets his gut big time, so much so in 3 days he was admitted to the vet hosp because he'd got so poorly. It seems beet is a big no for hind gut issues. He's also barefoot and alfalfa does make him footy almost immediately. 

I'd really recommend taking him off of that if you can - even on Equishure mine cant get beet or alfalfa at all.

My vet got me to put him onto Rowan Barbury Solution Mash and Rice Bran for now. Literally took about 4 days and I had a much healthier, happier horse. He's totally sound now and even putting him on new grass last week hasn't caused any problems. Vet super pleased with his poo sample results too, so much so that we are going to reduce/stop the Equishure.
		
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OK thanks - that's really useful to know.  I shall refer back to Chloe. Glad you are making progress : )


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## rising_promise (28 October 2014)

Hi, I'm in Tunbridge Wells too 

When my horse was scoped and diagnosed with grade 2/3 stomach ulcers back in June, she also had a faecal blood sample to test the hind gut. The vet said she had some of the highest levels he had ever seen. She was treated with Peptizol (same as Gastroguard, contains Omeprezole) for the gastric ulcers and Equitop Pronutrin for the hind gut.

She was re-scoped 4 weeks later and was clear of gastric ulcers and the faecal test came back completely clear. Vet said he knew it was good stuff but was amazed how well it had worked in such a short time.

I have kept her on a small dose of Peptizole and also the Pronutrin and she is feeling great.

Pronutrin really was a wonder for her, worth a look. It's also the thing that Dr Kerry Ridgeway mentions in his paper re ulcers as something he wishes they had in America as it is so fantastic.

Good luck


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## stilltrying (28 October 2014)

rising_promise said:



			Hi, I'm in Tunbridge Wells too 

When my horse was scoped and diagnosed with grade 2/3 stomach ulcers back in June, she also had a faecal blood sample to test the hind gut. The vet said she had some of the highest levels he had ever seen. She was treated with Peptizol (same as Gastroguard, contains Omeprezole) for the gastric ulcers and Equitop Pronutrin for the hind gut.

She was re-scoped 4 weeks later and was clear of gastric ulcers and the faecal test came back completely clear. Vet said he knew it was good stuff but was amazed how well it had worked in such a short time.

I have kept her on a small dose of Peptizole and also the Pronutrin and she is feeling great.

Pronutrin really was a wonder for her, worth a look. It's also the thing that Dr Kerry Ridgeway mentions in his paper re ulcers as something he wishes they had in America as it is so fantastic.

Good luck
		
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Ahh, must be a Kent thing!!  I'll make a note of that drug and pass on, loads more suggestions on here so its all good.  Just trying to persuade Chloe to look at his feed and cut out everything except the chaff.  Got to be worth a shot.  Looking at your forum name, is yours a primitive rising reli too?  : )


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## rising_promise (28 October 2014)

stilltrying said:



			Ahh, must be a Kent thing!!  I'll make a note of that drug and pass on, loads more suggestions on here so its all good.  Just trying to persuade Chloe to look at his feed and cut out everything except the chaff.  Got to be worth a shot.  Looking at your forum name, is yours a primitive rising reli too?  : )
		
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Mine was on Alpha A, Calm and Condition and linseed. Vet advised to take her off everything and put her on Dengie Healthy tummy which is again alpha based but designed with ulcer horses in mind. She's thrived on it along with the Pronutrin.

He also said to remove the linseed as although it's good for some horses, it's not good for all.

I did have a Primitive Rising mare when I joined this forum yonks ago. Sadly we lost her to colic. She was the most beautiful, special girl


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## Primitive Pony (28 October 2014)

stilltrying said:



			Ahh, must be a Kent thing!!  I'll make a note of that drug and pass on, loads more suggestions on here so its all good.  Just trying to persuade Chloe to look at his feed and cut out everything except the chaff.  Got to be worth a shot.  Looking at your forum name, is yours a primitive rising reli too?  : )
		
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Maybe it's in the blood - my boy is by Primitive Rising and also trying to sort out his hindguts too!


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## stilltrying (28 October 2014)

rising_promise said:



			Mine was on Alpha A, Calm and Condition and linseed. Vet advised to take her off everything and put her on Dengie Healthy tummy which is again alpha based but designed with ulcer horses in mind. She's thrived on it along with the Pronutrin.

He also said to remove the linseed as although it's good for some horses, it's not good for all.

I did have a Primitive Rising mare when I joined this forum yonks ago. Sadly we lost her to colic. She was the most beautiful, special girl 

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Sorry to hear about your girl, Ted is fab on paper just got to get all his bits working at the same time!  Didnt realise linseed could be an issue...its a minefield. I know the vet has given the ok to feed what he is getting, but i suppose unless you cut everything out, you cant be certain that there isnt something remaining that is acting as an irritant.


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## stilltrying (28 October 2014)

peh1980 said:



			Maybe it's in the blood - my boy is by Primitive Rising and also trying to sort out his hindguts too!
		
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Haha, dont want to be starting any rumours! :0


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