# Trust me I'm a vet



## Peter7917 (3 May 2017)

Anybody watching this on bbc2? What a load of rubbish eh


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## {97702} (3 May 2017)

Don't watch TV so not watching it - but experience tells me never to wholeheartedly trust a vet, unless you are sure they have the animals best interests (not the maximum insurance claim!) at heart


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## fairyclare (3 May 2017)

I watched it - load of old codswallop!


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## jumbyjack (3 May 2017)

Watched or listened to it just because it was on in the kitchen, more than a bit rubbish!


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## Pinkvboots (3 May 2017)

I thought the bit about cats having tumours on the pituitary gland being linked to household chemicals and then also linking it to an increase in the same condition in humans quite interesting, basically the chemicals used for fire proofing furniture could be causing this condition which is quite scary really, I never watched the rest of it so maybe I caught one good bit in the whole programme!


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## Dobiegirl (4 May 2017)

Pinkvboots said:



			I thought the bit about cats having tumours on the pituitary gland being linked to household chemicals and then also linking it to an increase in the same condition in humans quite interesting, basically the chemicals used for fire proofing furniture could be causing this condition which is quite scary really, I never watched the rest of it so maybe I caught one good bit in the whole programme!
		
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That and the teeth bit was the only thing I caught, can you remember where the research was done as regards the above.

Incidentally who here cleans their dogs teeth?


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## Sarah_K (4 May 2017)

I certainly don't clean my dogs teeth as there's no need for me- he gets bones to gnaw on and I check his teeth when I groom him. It annoyed me that in the bit talking about teeth they showed dogs chewing bones but then made no mention of it later and it wasn't even tested. Guess the product placement of Pedigree food and chews put paid to any mention of raw food.


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## MotherOfChickens (4 May 2017)

well, it was very dumbed down but dont forget, lots of people will have never have considered their dogs dental health (until too late) and just trust that pet food is good because it says so on the bag.  I expect vets wont advocate giving bones on the TV.

I dont know much about reptiles so found that quite interesting


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## Pinkvboots (4 May 2017)

Dobiegirl said:



			That and the teeth bit was the only thing I caught, can you remember where the research was done as regards the above.

Incidentally who here cleans their dogs teeth?
		
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I think it was the RVC 

I don't clean my dogs teeth she gets bones and chews though I was under the impression that did the job.


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## CorvusCorax (4 May 2017)

Never cleaned a dog's teeth.
My dog is 6.5 and his are still clean and pointy despite years of chomping lol. A lot of dental issues are genetic/breed specific. A popular dog in Germany who is two years younger than mine has had to have his canines capped already and I see a few with worn teeth.


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## Goldenstar (4 May 2017)

My dogs teeth are great it's all the wood they chew


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## Aru (4 May 2017)

A hugh amount of dental issues are genetic or situational.

If you have a dog who uses their teeth as they are supposed to...ie gnawing slashing and chewing food instead of just gulping down and swallowing you will rarely see dental disease.The tartar and plaque simply doesnt get as much of a chance to build up and irritate the gumline causing the ginigivitis and gum disease that affects the tooth root and causes tooth loss.

Small dogs..the poodles yorkie etc have got tiny jawlines with normal sized teeth so when gingivitis occurs it affects the roots much quicker then in say a staffy as the socket down to the peridontal ligaments are very small.
The smaller breeds also seem to be less likely to be given chew toys and bones as well for some reason so its multifactorial.

Greyhounds are a bit different and I've hypothesised its  seem to be a mix of genetics,nutrition in early race training and a lack of chewing etc from a young age.

Genetics are funny though.
Fun fact if the day its very rare for any dog to get a dental cavity like humans....except in rottweilers for some reason.

We advise bone all the time where I work! With the obvious advise of choosing appropriate sized ones for each dogs and supervise so they dont choke as they get towards the end,but which tbh can happen with anything but bones are a bit overrepresented...esp westies and chicken wings for some reason! 

Ps havent seen the show! Its the sort of title makes me a bit edgy of what will be there.
What was it actually about? General animal health? Common conditions?


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## blackcob (4 May 2017)

Mine get their teeth brushed daily.  Used to feed a lot of recreational bones which cleaned them for me but stopped when stoopid white dog fractured a tooth. There are risks to feeding bones which are probably beyond the remit of a fairly simplistic half hour show.

Dental disease is very common, miserable for the dog, a contributing factor to lots of other health issues and is not recognised as a problem by a significant number of owners. 'Dog breath' is not normal!


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## Nici (4 May 2017)

I brush my Pomeranian's teeth, simply because tiny dogs so often develop problems with their teeth. 
He's 5 years old now and his teeth are still shiny and white.
Our border collie Pippa was 16 when she was pts and her teeth were never brushed, but still very white to the very end!
So I would brush the teeth of little dogs, but larger breeds don't seem to have that problem.


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## MotherOfChickens (4 May 2017)

Aru said:



			Ps havent seen the show! Its the sort of title makes me a bit edgy of what will be there.
What was it actually about? General animal health? Common conditions?
		
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yes, with Steve Leonard presenting (would do a rolls eyes smilie if I could lol). It was ok, very simplistic-but then a lot of pet owners probably need that.


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## Aru (4 May 2017)

Thanks! I guess more awareness of the common issues can only be a good thing though?
 It sometimes worrys me about how little people understand of how bodies(animals and our own!) work and tick.
Half tempted to watch it now!


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## {97702} (4 May 2017)

Aru said:



			Greyhounds are a bit different and I've hypothesised its  seem to be a mix of genetics,nutrition in early race training and a lack of chewing etc from a young age
		
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I would be really interested to find out what the problem is with greyhounds - it is their only down-side! I have tried raw feeding and bones, cleaning teeth daily - nothing seems to work, the bad ones have bad teeth and the good ones don't regardless of what I do


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## Clodagh (4 May 2017)

A frend of mine who used to have racing greyhounds hypothesises that as their lips are close in around their teeth, due the their head shape, saliva does not sloosh around the back teeth as well in say, a labrador.


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## CorvusCorax (4 May 2017)

Is it not similar to say...the lines of racehorses with bad feet? It's just in the genes?


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## Peter7917 (5 May 2017)

blackcob said:



			Dental disease is very common, miserable for the dog, a contributing factor to lots of other health issues and is not recognised as a problem by a significant number of owners. 'Dog breath' is not normal!
		
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I have a bitch with fishy breath.  She's had this odd fishy fragrance since the day I got her at 8 weeks old. She's ten years old now.


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## CrazyMare (5 May 2017)

I clean my greyhounds teeth and give her dental chews. I don't give her bones, every time I've given her a bone she has vomited bits of bone 24 hours later.

She's just had a dental and had one tooth removed, which was loose rather than anything else.


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## {97702} (5 May 2017)

Clodagh said:



			A frend of mine who used to have racing greyhounds hypothesises that as their lips are close in around their teeth, due the their head shape, saliva does not sloosh around the back teeth as well in say, a labrador.
		
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CorvusCorax said:



			Is it not similar to say...the lines of racehorses with bad feet? It's just in the genes?
		
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I think I will go for your logic CC, because I am at a loss to suggest anything else?  the 2 who have raced have no teeth and 2 teeth respectively, the one who never raced has had 3 out (I think) at the age of 10.  Maybe it is the racing diet as well, but this would also support the theory that successful greyhound lines have bad teeth!


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## lizziebell (6 May 2017)

Sarah_K said:



			I certainly don't clean my dogs teeth as there's no need for me- he gets bones to gnaw on and I check his teeth when I groom him. It annoyed me that in the bit talking about teeth they showed dogs chewing bones but then made no mention of it later and it wasn't even tested. Guess the product placement of Pedigree food and chews put paid to any mention of raw food.
		
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Apparently they are covering raw food next week, and all I've heard is that they are highlighting the dangers !!  Will be interesting to watch as I feed all 3 of my dogs a raw diet.


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## MotherOfChickens (6 May 2017)

lizziebell said:



			Apparently they are covering raw food next week, and all I've heard is that they are highlighting the dangers !!  Will be interesting to watch as I feed all 3 of my dogs a raw diet.
		
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well there are dangers  (and I feed RAW myself) and people should be aware of them.


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## lizziebell (6 May 2017)

MotherOfChickens said:



			well there are dangers  (and I feed RAW myself) and people should be aware of them.
		
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Agreed, but I have a feeling this may not be balanced alongside the benefits of RAW feeding..... I may be wrong, but going from the contents of the first program I have my doubts.


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## MotherOfChickens (6 May 2017)

lizziebell said:



			Agreed, but I have a feeling this may not be balanced alongside the benefits of RAW feeding..... I may be wrong, but going from the contents of the first program I have my doubts.
		
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probably not-I doubt they are going to list the risks of feeding the likes of Bakers (mores the pity) either! probably best not to watch


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## Chiffy (11 May 2017)

Who watched about raw feeding then?
I don't feed raw and never will so was quite happy that they didn't like it. Lots of bacteria and an unnecessary fad!
Wow! Lots of you will disagree. Nothing about the bad kibble like Bakers though or help with which food is good.


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## MotherOfChickens (11 May 2017)

I didnt, I saw some of the comments on FB though. I do wonder though, if you have no intention of feeding it, why you feel it necessary to denounce it as an unnecessary fad though 

I've fed both, I will continue to feed both-with good food hygiene practise. I've done bacteriological testing on kibble that got me slapped with potential legal action in 2001-research I was not allowed to publish. There's bacteria everywhere and kibble processing does not allow for the kind of conditions that kills off the real nasties. There's a small risk of kibble killing your dog or cat, there's a small risk of RAW doing the same thing-be aware of the risks and make up your own mind.


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## MotherOfChickens (11 May 2017)

MotherOfChickens said:



			I didnt, I saw some of the comments on FB though. I do wonder though, if you have no intention of feeding it, why you feel it necessary to denounce it as an unnecessary fad though 

I've fed both, I will continue to feed both-with good food hygiene practise. I've done bacteriological testing on kibble that got me slapped with potential legal action in 2001-research I was not allowed to publish. There's bacteria everywhere and kibble processing does not allow for the kind of conditions that kills off the real nasties. There's a small risk of kibble killing your dog or cat, there's a small risk of RAW doing the same thing-be aware of the risks and make up your own mind.
		
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I apologise for the overuse of the word 'though'. not had breakfast yet..


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## Chiffy (11 May 2017)

Hey MOC, I did not denounce it. As you said, I have not tried it, not because I don't think it is good but because it doesn't suit me to and my dog are healthy on what I prefer to feed.
I was quoting the programme with those words, sorry I didn't put them in inverted commas!


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## lizziebell (11 May 2017)

I didn't watch the programme, but I have just watched a short summary clip on BBC2's Facebook page. Isn't it basic common sense to clean your hands and related surfaces when dealing with raw meats, whether handling to feed your dog or for human consumption? Yes, there is a risk of bacteria - but even if you feed a commercial feed what's stopping your dog bringing in dangerous bacteria into the house on its paws from being walked outside, or if they are like my dogs, they eat all sorts of rubbish out on our walks which could equally cause bacteria in their mouths/ faeces. How can raw feeding be a "fad" - what do people think dogs ate before the introduction of manufactured dog foods?


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## MotherOfChickens (11 May 2017)

Chiffy said:



			Hey MOC, I did not denounce it. As you said, I have not tried it, not because I don't think it is good but because it doesn't suit me to and my dog are healthy on what I prefer to feed.
I was quoting the programme with those words, sorry I didn't put them in inverted commas!
		
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lol, ok, sorry  

usually the BBC are so balanced they are useless, so funny they are now being unbalanced and useless.


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## Chiffy (11 May 2017)

Thanks MC. In a way I liked being told I didn't HAVE to feed raw because people that do, do rather make you feel it's only good food for dogs there is! 
But it was very strange about the bacteria business, surely they should have just promoted good hygiene. It said the hands and bowl were contaminated, well wouldn't you wash them?!


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## MotherOfChickens (11 May 2017)

Chiffy said:



			Thanks MC. In a way I liked being told I didn't HAVE to feed raw because people that do, do rather make you feel it's only good food for dogs there is! 
But it was very strange about the bacteria business, surely they should have just promoted good hygiene. It said the hands and bowl were contaminated, well wouldn't you wash them?!
		
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in the nicest possible way, I don't care what you feed or anyone else  although I agree some RAW feeders are somewhat evangelical about it. I do think there are better kibbles about than ever before so I dont think there's an absolute 'need' to feed RAW and for convenience, I am not feeding much of it right now (dogs mostly fed at work). But I'll defend people's right to feed it and anecdotally, I do think most dogs love the variety and get a certain satisfaction from bones etc. They should have done some cultures on kibble for balance. The only sterile food is tinned and they'd already discussed on the prvious program how nutritionally bad most tinned food was.

I expect some people are just too daft to realise there is bacteria on raw meat and not take the right precautions etc. Mostly though I think RAW feeders are a bit more clued up than that.

 I think some pet owners are a bit clueless as to what their pets are carrying anyway-there's no way I'd be cuddling up to my cats for example, they are complete dustbins and will happily gnaw away on the carcass of a dead rabbit for a couple of days, god only knows whats growing on that (I have a good idea what actually!).


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## peanut (11 May 2017)

Dobiegirl said:



			Incidentally who here cleans their dogs teeth?
		
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My vet tried to get me to clean my cat's teeth.  As if!   :rolleyes3::biggrin3:


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## Clodagh (11 May 2017)

I didn't see the programme but I am fairly confident there would be less bacteria in my dogs food bowl, with or without raw, than in some of the stuff they happily swallow out on a walk.


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## splashgirl45 (11 May 2017)

i did watch most of the program and felt it was aimed at newish pet owners and not those who have had animals for years.  i thought it was interesting to see the rabbit on cctv and how he changed when he had better living conditions and a friend.  so many well meaning people just keep rabbits in hutches and dont give them any freedom so well done to them for highlighting this...


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## darli (11 May 2017)

What I found amusing was the fact they were making people concerned as to what nutrition was in traditional food last week(?) and how we couldn't trust what was written on the side of the tin.  Now we cannot feed raw in case we poison ourselves because we don't know how to wash our hands.  What can we feed?


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## Dobiegirl (14 May 2017)

https://www.facebook.com/Holisticvet.Ltd/videos/10155088282231138/


This vet has completely debunked the raw feed piece featured, incidentally my vet feeds his dogs raw.


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## Goldenstar (14 May 2017)

MotherOfChickens said:



			well there are dangers  (and I feed RAW myself) and people should be aware of them.
		
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Spot on ,
my friends dog nearly died of salmonella it took her ages to get it right the dogs now on a high quality dry diet and fine .
And my friends a vet it took a while to diagnose because it was chronic I did not know salmonella could be a chronic condition .
All that time every person who came into that house was at serious risk of a life taking disease .


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## MotherOfChickens (14 May 2017)

Goldenstar said:



			Spot on ,
my friends dog nearly died of salmonella it took her ages to get it right the dogs now on a high quality dry diet and fine .
And my friends a vet it took a while to diagnose because it was chronic I did not know salmonella could be a chronic condition .
All that time every person who came into that house was at serious risk of a life taking disease .
		
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salmonella has quite a high infectious dose fwiw (compared to say, E coli O157 or even campylobacter if I remember rightly) so provided people were washing hands and not sharing the dog's bowl the risk was small. The problem with the program was that there were no controls-no comparisons to non-RAW fed dogs, no typing of the salmonella found etc etc and salmonella is found in dogs fed regular food. 
It was so dumbed down as to be worthless (I watched it yesterday). If they had kept it to good basic hygiene, compared it to some commercially prepared RAW (which is screened for the major pathogens) and other dog food it would have been better. They then could have made a segment bringing in last weeks bit on the general crapness of some tinned and dry foods-only they wouldnt. Liverpool VS also has a Royal Canin reader in SA Medicine..

RAW feeding is like barefoot imho-only several years behind in acceptance and research.


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