# Chicken -whodunit??!



## Evie91 (28 March 2014)

I posted a few weeks ago after one of my bantams was eaten by a buzzard.
Since then I've bought a plastic bird of prey and not seen the buzzard near the chooks.

Today my dog walker text to say a bantam was dead in the run. I left the house at half one, the chook was alive, the dog walker arrived at half two and noticed the chicken was dead. The builders were working next to the coop and saw nothing. 

The chicken was in the covered part of the run - I'm confident that it was not a wild animal/bird of prey that killed it as this is a small confined space and the builders are noisy.

The chicken had its feathers pulled out - including the feather from its feet. Some of the feather was bloody, seemed to have been mainly from around her neck. She had not been eaten - one of the builders thought she looked as if she had been trampled.

I shouted at the rooster earlier as he grabbed her by the back of the neck and tried to do his thing - he obviously hurt her as she screamed. I yelled at him and she ran off.

my question is could my rooster be killing my banties? I only have one bantam left now. Feel so sad - one that died was such a character and best buds with the other bantam - they did everything together and often snuggled up together.


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## MotherOfChickens (28 March 2014)

is your rooster also a bantam? its best not to put much smaller hens in with a big roo. For example, I have a 2yo Scots Grey cock (large fowl) but won't put the rumpless aruacana girls out with him as they are small for LF hens (they aren't bantams). Not all cockerels are nice to their girls I'm afraid and they are very hormonal atm. How many girls does he have?


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## Evie91 (28 March 2014)

No he's a big lad- unplanned he was mean to be a hen. Breeder said he would have him back but as most people don't want cockerels he would neck him. Me, being soft kept him. He's beautiful, has awful toes and is fierce. Attacks anyone who goes into the run apart from me and the dog - who he seems to get along with rather well.
I did have three bantam hens and three larger,normal sized hens. Now one bantam and three hens. He's always been one for the ladies - the whole year round.
The place I bought the chickens from had all sizes running together including some tiny golden partridges which were gorgeous - didn't t get them as worried the cats might think they were fair game. It didn't occur to me the banties couldn't go in with the larger birds. Shame too as she had just started laying.


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## MotherOfChickens (28 March 2014)

if they can keep away from him they can cope maybe. does he have large spurs now? might be a reason why they are reluctant to be trod and then he has to erm, up the anti. you can trim spurs but the weight thing is a factor as well. roos vary in their sex drive and how they are with the ladies and others. My roo is ok with 4/5 hens (although he has 10 now, you have to think about the girls too) but I've had others that really need 8/9 and then I try and give the girls a break when they are moulting and over the winter. This time of year roos are especially horny! I love the boys, would keep all of them if I could (they make me laugh) but I'll not tolerate any that are too feisty-either with the hens or with me!


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## Evie91 (28 March 2014)

Do you think he could have killed her then? But why pull her feathers out? 
I love my chickens but out of all my animals they seem to be least able to just get along.
He does have large spurs - my husband came into the pen the other day to talk to me and he got the full force of them, plus the hissing and everything else that goes with. He is a huge, handsome chap (on about the rooster again now, although my husbands not bad either!!!) and I've always thought he looked after his ladies (when I bought the plastic bird of prey, I left it in the coop and went to get a ladder to put it up high. He went nuts, making a noise I'd never heard before, got all of his ladies running into the hen house and when he was sure they were all in, he went in too).
May get another couple of larger hens. He definately is a randy bird! Won't get any more banties though - such a shame as they were my favourites really.


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## MotherOfChickens (28 March 2014)

I don't know-I guess there's a chance that he didn't but it does happen. they do look after the girls in that they'll protect them and find food etc but they are expected to let him whenever he wants! and when they are young at this time of year its pretty frequent. the more hens you have, the less times a day they'll have to put up with him. 5 hens may still not be enough-I had one who gave 9 a really hard time although they were penned. I necked him in the end as it wasn't fair to them and I wasn't using him for breeding. if you don't already, stick doe things in the pen/garden the girls can hind behind/roost on.

you can trim spurs-there's lots of awful ways on youtube but you can clip the ends off with dog nail clippers and/or file to stop the worst of the damage. might be worth checking the sides of your remaining hens, to check they aren't cut. 

how much space do your chickens have? doe breeds need more than others, some breeds don't take to anything less than free range-others are happy with the minimum.


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## Evie91 (28 March 2014)

He is really good with the food - he always lets the hens have whatever they want - they take things out of his beak.
They were free ranging until the fox ate two over the Christmas hols, so now in a pen. It's about 11 metres by seven so fairly large
They have a dustbin for shelter, small covered run within the big run - so they can get some fresh air but stay dry, an old rabbit pen, logs and a wood chip pit, an ash can, a dustbin lid paddling pool and another small shelter.
May have a go at filing his spurs - my husband can vouch that they do hurt. The bigger hens don't seem to mind so much with him having his way with them - but they are comparable in size.
I really didn't think he'd bother the smaller ones. The place I bought them from even have several rooster in with the hens and never seem to have many problems!
He is exceptionally fierce though - has attacked a few people who have ventured in his pen. Now most folks stay out!


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## MotherOfChickens (28 March 2014)

get someone to get rid of the fox, you near a shoot?

picking up a feisty boy and carrying him around under your arm can make him realise he's very small in the scheme of things! some are just too big for their boots. I had one that had a go once and I went after him with a broom shouting-he never did it again but we had one when I was a kid that was really bad. they do hurt when they go for you-there is a whole blood sport based around it after all!


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## Evie91 (28 March 2014)

My mum doesn't like him - she was attacked and pinned down by a rooster when she was a little girl. My grandad killed it straight away. 
Might try picking him up and carrying him around. Will probably catch him with a towel though! Shame as he was the friendliest one when he was small.


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## Evie91 (28 March 2014)

Thanks for your replies by the way


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## MotherOfChickens (28 March 2014)

sometimes its the precocious ones that turn out feisty-they just don't have enough fear, a sign of too much testosterone! a nice cockerel is a lovely animal-mine has even come to tell me there was a problem (he couldn't keep his wayward girls together and was missing one-I swear he came to tell me to come and find her!)


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## MotherOfChickens (28 March 2014)

Evie91 said:



			Thanks for your replies by the way 

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oh, pleasure


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## applecart14 (9 April 2014)

Evie91 said:



			and I've always thought he looked after his ladies (when I bought the plastic bird of prey, I left it in the coop and went to get a ladder to put it up high. He went nuts, making a noise I'd never heard before, got all of his ladies running into the hen house and when he was sure they were in.
		
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Sorry nothing to add other than I have total admiration for cockerels and have heard lots of stories about how they protect their girls.

I miss our hens so much, we had to rehome them - they were ex bats and it broke my heart when they went.  But my partner was forced out of his accomodation and had to move into rented without hens!


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## Evie91 (9 April 2014)

Sorry you had to give away your chickens, they are fab pets!
It seems my rooster was not to blame after all, in fact he deserves a big apology. We had some building work done and the builders observed my dog chasing the one remaining bantie, none of the larger fowl. Now the dog has lived with the chucks for a year and I've never had any problems. The bantams are a new addition. For some reason it seems the dog has taken to chasing the bantam as if he was playing with it, sort of jumping on it or near it so make it run, then chasing it. It seems likely he 'played' the other two to death - then the buzzard ate one and the other chickens pulled the feathers out of the other dead one.
Not sure why this has happened - feel awful about the two that died.
Anyway suffice to say, run has now been seperated - dog can see chucks but not in with them. Such a shame as he loves the chickens but this is obviously safer all round. 
The rooster is still getting it on with the ladies but there have been no casualties (in fact the builders said when the dog was chasing the bantam,it hid between the roosters legs!) and the bantam seems to be its favourite.
So hopefully that has resolved the situation, fingers crossed!


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## Teresa G (9 October 2014)

Something has killed one of my cochins and whatever it was managed to get it over a 6 foot fence as I found her (half eaten) about 10 yards away.  Though she probably only weighed about 900g, I think even a large cat woud struggle.  This happened in the daytime while they were roaming about the garden.  Does anyone have any ideas please?


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## Dry Rot (9 October 2014)

Teresa G said:



			Something has killed one of my cochins and whatever it was managed to get it over a 6 foot fence as I found her (half eaten) about 10 yards away.  Though she probably only weighed about 900g, I think even a large cat woud struggle.  This happened in the daytime while they were roaming about the garden.  Does anyone have any ideas please?
		
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Sorry if this upsets you, but we would need a few forensic details. Make a careful Sherlock Holmes type of examination of he crime. For example, have feathers been plucked out and, if so, how? Singly or in clumps? Are feathers cut (by teeth) or just plucked? Is there saliva around the eaten area? If so, that usually indicates a cat. Can you pluck the bird and look for the puncture marks of canine teeth? The size of these wounds can tell a lot. They'd be left by some sort of carnivore. Some predators will leave a few of their own hairs on the victim. Were bones broken? So you see, a lot can be discovered from a close examination. A photo would be useful too. The first suspect would be a stoat or mink, if you have them. Up here in Scotland, it might be a pine martin.


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## Teresa G (10 October 2014)

As it was dark and I only had a small torch, all I could see were her innards, it looked like one side had been eaten away.  There was a cat there but I don't think it had anything to do with the terrible deed, just chanced upon it.  I have never seen a stoat or mink, not even a fox around here.  The other hen was left alone and someone has told me that a fox would have killed her as well.  No pile of feathers in the garden, just a few that they had moulted previously.  Thank you for your interest.


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## Evie91 (11 October 2014)

Nothing to add, just wanted to say sorry to hear about your bird.


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## Teresa G (12 October 2014)

Thank you.  Just wish I could know what had happened as I am wondering if someone got in and too her.  Have got another bird to keep the other one company but things are not going to plan as the new one has not been very well accepted!


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## sueonmull (12 October 2014)

Sorry to hear about your bird, don't know if there are otters near you but they will take hens too, even in broad daylight.


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## Teresa G (12 October 2014)

There are no otters near.  Today a cat that I feed has been stalking the new chicken,  Now wondering if he has chased my other hen and she has managed to fly to the top of the fence and gone over.  Would explain why there was no sign of a struggle in the garden.  He is getting a hefty spray of water from the hose when he goes towards her.  Hope it works.


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## autumn7 (13 October 2014)

We keep anything from 20 - 50 chickens here totally free range. They roam the paddocks and stables and roost in our trees. Every year we end up with a dozen or so chicks. We have also always owned good hunting cats. Peaked at seven several years ago but currently just have four, yet we have only ever had two chicks taken over twenty years, and then both by the same cat. Amazes us really considering the wealth of rabbits, mice and general wild life they catch. One of our cats kips in the old hen house along with two hens who take themselves in at night (doors never shut). On sunny days cats and chickens are often seen basking together out the front of the house. They genuinely seem to get along.
On the down side, a couple of years ago six chicks were picked off one by one by a magpie. When the mother hen went ballistic trying to defend her last two, she was taken too. If I hadn't have seen it happen with my own eyes  I wouldn't have believed it. Sickening. We've also lost a mother hen and odd chicks to stoats but have successfully hand reared any orphaned chicks and managed to reintegrate them with the others when the time was right. I love our chickens. They're fascinating creatures and of course, the free range eggs are scrumptious.


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## Dry Rot (13 October 2014)

From the description, my money is on the dear little pussy cat! 

Not all men behave like Dr Crippen, or Adolf Hitler, or even Attila the Hun, but some do! Others behave like saints. Maybe cats are the same?


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## Teresa G (14 October 2014)

I replaced the chicken on Saturday to keep the other one company and she also disappeared without trace yesterday.  I will keep the remaining one in the run until the end of the week when I can be around to keep an eye on her.  The little ladder into the coop was hanging off at one side where one of the little screws had been pulled out, so I think there may have been a struggle there.  No feathers.  The largest cat around here is one of mine who chases them a bit when they are new but if it is him, I am not sure why he has suddenly started to kill them.


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## Dry Rot (14 October 2014)

Missing without any trace at all would point to an experienced killer such as an adult fox. Young foxes, still learning, will often leave a mess. I wouldn't expect an old fox to eat at the scene which indicated to me that the culprit was more likely to be a cat or possible a mustelid (mink, stoat, etc). But since a whole hen has disappeared weighing 900 grams (?), we have to think of an animal large enough to carry that weight. So maybe foxy. Any foot prints? There is usually mud in a hen run.


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## Nettle123 (14 October 2014)

I would guess fox too, surprised no feathers though!. I have feral cats but they never look at the hens.


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## Dry Rot (14 October 2014)

Nettle123 said:



			I would guess fox too, surprised no feathers though!. I have feral cats but they never look at the hens.
		
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Older foxes up here (Scottish Highlands) will not leave a single feather! But not all foxes are the same.


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## Teresa G (14 October 2014)

Thanks to all for your help and interest.  If the mystery is ever solved, I will let you all know.


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