# CPL / Mallanders / feather mites



## SEL (31 October 2017)

I don't know whether I've taken my eye off the ball this year (it's been a stressful few months) or whether something else has changed but my little draft is really, really struggling. 

His scabby bits have always been a struggle and x-rays for ringbone showed very thickened skin, so it's highly likely his mallanders is actually CPL. It is progressive, but he's got lumps of thickened skin all up between his hind legs now. He's so itchy that he was running himself on the metal curry comb I was holding.

I'm getting the vet to try dectomax again - but its never really made a difference for long. 

Anyone ever come across any miracle potions or lotions? All the usual suspects have been tried and not helped for long.

Feeling very sorry for him and a bit desperate!


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## emfen1305 (31 October 2017)

I think it's the weather, honestly! My lad's mud fever and greasy knee/mallanders is worse this year than its ever been! I am putting it down to a combination of the warm wet weather! 

Pig oil has been our saviour for behind the knees, its softened and removed all of the scabs bar one that is the worst but I suspect you have already tried that one  sorry i can't be of more help, i hope you find something to help him!


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## FfionWinnie (31 October 2017)

Do you clip his legs?  Is there no way to diagnose if it is CPL?  Both the cobs I have had have had/have mallanders / sallanders and both have resolved. The only things Ive done are to clip their legs regularly and spray any affected areas with Terramycin foot rot spray (POM for sheep but I would think vet would let you have it for off label use). Im sure you commented on a post I made about how I think I caused it in one by feeding mag as it resolved completely once I stopped and never came back. New cob is also now resolving on my home ground and with those two management things. 

Hope its not CPL


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## MotherOfChickens (31 October 2017)

there's a FB group if you aren't already on it? having to tackle this for the first time-a really mild case in my Fell pony-seemed to come on overnight. Had his second jab yesterday and it does seem to be resolving touch wood. I am using T-Gel shampoo and Hoof to Heel (barrier).  some are now swearing by Head and Shoulders conditioner but it seems to be very individual. Had to google CPL-really hope it isnt that.


FW I knew a livery horse some years ago with dreadful greasy knee/mallanders. It completely resolved when she changed his diet but I can't remember the specifics. He was in quite hard work so needed the calories.. The terramycin is interesting, since I became 'interested' in this I wondered how many people had tried to treat by antibiotics and keeping the are dry-rather than keeping it moist. sometimes you just need to keep 'wounds' dry IME.


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## FfionWinnie (31 October 2017)

Interesting. I did try keeping it moist too and it would sort of get better in that it was less crusty and tight but the open sore bit wouldnt ever go away completely.  

New cob all Ive used is Terramycin on her. Clipping her quite regularly too so the hair is very short. 

With Daisy she was on high dose of mag and I had noticed it made all her skin drier and over her quarters would be that sort of white crumbly extra keratin type stuff when I brushed her and that also went away when I stopped the mag.  Once it had gone shes had long feathers and clipped legs and everything in between and it didnt come back regardless.


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## emfen1305 (31 October 2017)

FfionWinnie said:



			Interesting. I did try keeping it moist too and it would sort of get better in that it was less crusty and tight but the open sore bit wouldn&#8217;t ever go away completely.  

New cob all I&#8217;ve used is Terramycin on her. Clipping her quite regularly too so the hair is very short. 

With Daisy she was on high dose of mag and I had noticed it made all her skin drier and over her quarters would be that sort of white crumbly extra keratin type stuff when I brushed her and that also went away when I stopped the mag.  Once it had gone she&#8217;s had long feathers and clipped legs and everything in between and it didn&#8217;t come back regardless.
		
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I found flaky skin a problem with mag ox too, skin is much less flaky than it was when i stopped feeding it however i did up the linseed so can't 100% say for sure which one helped!


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## SEL (31 October 2017)

I've got the vet coming out on Thurs now because I think he might need some antibiotics. Do you think I could have made it worse by having him on forage plus 'skin & hoof balancer'? I knocked all extra mag out of his diet around the time of FW's post (he's PSSM positive), but now I'm wondering whether a balancer designed for hair is causing a problem with the excessive skin cell growth. Ahhhh! 

He's been doing so well this year I got cocky. I have just placed an online order at Boots for just about everything the FB site recommends. I think my vet would be ok with sheep meds - it's not like dectomax is for horses anyway. Thx for the recommendation.

Yesterday I smothered sudocream over most of his bottom and last night there was a white bottom shaped print in the field where he had sat down to scratch. Feel awful.

Will be sticking all your recommendations in front of the vet. CPL was a 'probable' diagnosis at the time of his xray 18m ago. Its got around 70% occurence in the breed. Tbh his vet then was shocked at the layers of thick skin that were visible on the xray. She'd tried to nerve block and the needle wouldn't go through the skin. He's heavily feathered (& will need to be knocked out to clip), but I think there's years of damaged skin.

He's 99% retired btw and is spoiled rotten. He's incredibly stoic which is why I'm so cross at myself for not picking this up. He's not unhappy in himself - got past me yesterday and galloped bucking into the rested winter field and pranced around refusing to be caught!


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## FfionWinnie (31 October 2017)

I dont know and I dont know if anyone knows but one thing my PSSM horse taught me is the only way to find out is to cut stuff out and see.


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## Cecile (31 October 2017)

Certainly may be useful to see if the vet thinks Alamycin would be helpful, like everything in life its terrific stuff for certain things and not others

https://www.chemistdirect.co.uk/alamycin-aerosol/prd-mqe

I hope you have some answers on Thursday, don't beat yourself up I dare say you don't miss much regarding him, the way you have written your post shows how much you care for and about him


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## Pearlsasinger (31 October 2017)

I'm sure that the problem this year is the very wet/warm weather.  I have some Oz-oil tea-tree legwash, which seems to help.  I'm not sure that I should admit that I have used 1% steroid cream, which I use for my eczema, on the worst sore.


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## FfionWinnie (31 October 2017)

Cecile said:



			Certainly may be useful to see if the vet thinks Alamycin would be helpful, like everything in life its terrific stuff for certain things and not others
		
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In 20 years Ive yet to find something its not good for!


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## deb_l222 (31 October 2017)

Aww I do feel your pain, its a nightmare isnt it.  I went through every lotion and potion under the sun.  Some had no effect whatsoever and others were mildly successful but nothing ever cured my lad from trashing his legs. 

Clipping off the feather made no difference.  In fact, it maybe made things worse as all protection was removed.   Few things that did work for me (in effectiveness order):

Dectomax - this by far was the most effective treatment and I knew within hours when another jab was due because the boy would trash his legs terribly.  My vets also did a topical Dectomax solution. 

Head and shoulders shampoo - yes this is really good on scurfy skin.  Do a patch test first though as its quite a harsh shampoo. 

Washing and drying - Horse was stabled at night.  If I left his legs muddy they would still be soaked the next morning.  If they were hosed off, his legs would be dry within the hour.  I know the jury is still out about hosing but it was definitely the best thing for my lad. 

Athletes foot powder cut with mud fever powder - I came across this mixture by accident but it did work.  I also added wood flour or normal talc to make it go a bit further.  I put this on before he went out in the morning. 

Pig oil - didnt do anything for the itching but made the feather REALLY soft and silky.  My horse was horrendously allergic to sulphur so pig oil only. 

Just a few suggestions, good luck 

Deb


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## PoppyAnderson (1 November 2017)

I've tried pretty much everything. Injection doesn't work for me and vet agreed. Am about to try lime plus dip, which vet said is best current thing. I've also had some success in actually feeding sulphur - as recommended on the Facebook group. I was told on there that it's used in Germany but little known about elsewhere. Brings the mites screaming to the surface and then you smother them with pig oil. 

My vet said mallenders/ sallenders will never go until mites are treated. Don't know if that's true or not but it's what she said. Best thing I've used is sudocrem.


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## FfionWinnie (1 November 2017)

PoppyAnderson said:



			My vet said mallenders/ sallenders will never go until mites are treated. Don't know if that's true or not but it's what she said. Best thing I've used is sudocrem.
		
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They arent caused by mites so how does that follow. Its excessive keratin production, cause unknown, as far as I understand it.  

Horse could have both conditions but my two have never had feather mites.


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## MotherOfChickens (1 November 2017)

FfionWinnie said:



			They aren&#8217;t caused by mites so how does that follow. It&#8217;s excessive keratin production, cause unknown, as far as I understand it.  

Horse could have both conditions but my two have never had feather mites.
		
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I think that mites are involved somewhere along the line-whether they are the initial cause, or the disorder creates a great environment for them whereby other horses (not as hairy) just act as carriers I don't know. there could be dietary or other factors that mean affected horses are more prone to infestation. Certainly from what I've seen, the lesions look much like another mite infestation (ie bad sheep scab) whereby you can get this exudate and excessive keratin production.


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## rabatsa (1 November 2017)

A clydesdale arrived here along with a sack of swedes.  The old chap reckoned that a swede a day prevented itchy legs.  Either he was just lucky or they really did work but despite other horses stamping and scratching his clyde never did.


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## Cahill (1 November 2017)

most people have sudocream about for odd scrapes and scratches but i have come to the conclusion that it is quite `drying` for behind the knees.


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## AdorableAlice (1 November 2017)

rabatsa said:



			A clydesdale arrived here along with a sack of swedes.  The old chap reckoned that a swede a day prevented itchy legs.  Either he was just lucky or they really did work but despite other horses stamping and scratching his clyde never did.
		
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How interesting.  Tesco will have empty shelves just now !


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## AdorableAlice (1 November 2017)

Cahill said:



			most people have sudocream about for odd scrapes and scratches but i have come to the conclusion that it is quite `drying` for behind the knees.
		
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Mine got markedly worse when I tried it.  Maintaining now with Johnson baby lotion.


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## chaps89 (1 November 2017)

I've started putting emollient ointment on the scabs on my mares legs - they're lessening and much softer without becoming open sores. It's also very cheap and good for my hands too.


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## Merrymoles (1 November 2017)

I use a human psoriasis shampoo but I can't remember the name! It's about £10 a bottle but you only need the tiniest amount and I only wash his legs when he is really sore. My horse has no mites but definitely over-produces skin everywhere and particularly on all four legs. He doesn't tolerate his legs handled at all well but enjoys the occasional wash and it really softens the scabs.

If the name comes to me, I'll post it immediately.


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## MotherOfChickens (1 November 2017)

for those of you who say they've never had mites-can I ask how you know for sure please?


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## HappyDayz (1 November 2017)

We manage our cons with baby oil. When we got him he had huge scabs/sores/cracks behind his knees. We intially softened it all with udder cream, after 3 days all the scabs have lifted, we then clipped his legs and apply baby oil every other day to his knees. If we forget or his legs get scabby the udder cream goes on for a few days


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## FfionWinnie (1 November 2017)

MotherOfChickens said:



			for those of you who say they've never had mites-can I ask how you know for sure please?
		
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Would it resolve if they have mites and dont have treatment?  Mine have never been remotely bothered by it. Its not sore or itchy.


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## PoppyAnderson (1 November 2017)

FfionWinnie said:



			They aren&#8217;t caused by mites so how does that follow. It&#8217;s excessive keratin production, cause unknown, as far as I understand it.  

Horse could have both conditions but my two have never had feather mites.
		
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Not sure either. Was just repeating what my vet said.


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## PoppyAnderson (1 November 2017)

AdorableAlice said:



			Mine got markedly worse when I tried it.  Maintaining now with Johnson baby lotion.
		
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Just shows that different things work for different horses, as it's the best thing I've used so far.


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## PoppyAnderson (1 November 2017)

moleskinsmum said:



			I use a human psoriasis shampoo but I can't remember the name! It's about £10 a bottle but you only need the tiniest amount and I only wash his legs when he is really sore. My horse has no mites but definitely over-produces skin everywhere and particularly on all four legs. He doesn't tolerate his legs handled at all well but enjoys the occasional wash and it really softens the scabs.

If the name comes to me, I'll post it immediately.
		
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Selsun?


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## MotherOfChickens (1 November 2017)

FfionWinnie said:



			Would it resolve if they have mites and don&#8217;t have treatment?  Mine have never been remotely bothered by it. It&#8217;s not sore or itchy.
		
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maybe-maybe not.I work with (scab) mites so am just interested as chorioptes are infernally difficult to find. also-sheep scab can resolve without treatment in the right conditions (animal, breed, wool length etc). my pony was a bit sore and itchy so hoping the jaggs sort him out.


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## SEL (1 November 2017)

Back again &.thank you for the posts. I have bulk bought aqueous cream which is supposed to be better than sudocream. Plus Alphosyl shampoo and something for cracked heels which is supposed to get rid of thickened skin. I'm prob now down on Boots database as having a v bad skin condition....

My vet tells me that the mites eat the dead skin which is why you often get both conditions together - lots of dead skin, so lots of food. He's got the winter coat of a yak so I'm sure they're in mite heaven. I got itchy lumps on my hands rummaging through his feathers so there's def nasty biting things in there.

After finding him chewing his armpit this morning I've dosed him up on piriton until the vet comes tomorrow. If they recommend any miracle cures I'll let you know....


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## emfen1305 (1 November 2017)

Sorry a bit off topic but would you clip or leave the hair alone? Toby is currently sporting fluffier legs than I would like but was advised to leave the hair on to help protect from mud fever. He's not heavily  feathered, typical cob x hairy! Thanks!


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## FfionWinnie (1 November 2017)

MotherOfChickens said:



			maybe-maybe not.I work with (scab) mites so am just interested as chorioptes are infernally difficult to find. also-sheep scab can resolve without treatment in the right conditions (animal, breed, wool length etc). my pony was a bit sore and itchy so hoping the jaggs sort him out.
		
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Ive never heard of a case of sheep scab resolve other than through the death of the sheep!  I think its unlikely my two horses had mites and no symptoms of mites other than crusty legs and it also resolved without treatment. Unless of course the mites saw I had some dectomax in the cabinet and got frightened off...


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## MotherOfChickens (1 November 2017)

I've seen several cases of resolving sheep scab over the years, can and does happen. I've also had shepherds tell me that they definitely don't have sheep scab in their flock until I find it  

I'm not saying that this is the case with your horses, its a new condition for me and its related to my work so am just interested in cause and effect. the cob I spoke of who's lesions resolved after a diet change had certainly been treated for mites previously so its not straightforward. I mostly work with scab and poultry red mite, chorioptes is a new one but I do know we've been on the look out for chorioptes mites for years with no success-partly because pet owners dont want their animals scraped and partly because scraping is so useless for mites anyway.

when you have a batch of horse owners (on FB) saying that its definitely not X but that they dont know for sure because noone's ever looked or because they'd rather fork out for potions than actual treatment, then I have to question it.


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## FfionWinnie (1 November 2017)

Do you find established sheep scab in flocks with absolutely no sheep showing any external symptoms, including behavioural, whatsoever?


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## MotherOfChickens (1 November 2017)

FfionWinnie said:



			Do you find established sheep scab in flocks with absolutely no sheep showing any external symptoms, including behavioural, whatsoever?
		
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depends what you mean by established.
Have I found affected sheep in a population where people were adamant there was no scab, confirmed by serology and then finding mites on individuals? yes, several times in several geographical locations. for it to be so endemic, it stands to reason that some sheep will get it and it resolves (as evidenced by finding healed/healing lesions) or it exists subclinically but is passed on before anyone knows its there. 

As for behavioural indicators, these can be extremely subtle and, as far as I've seen, easily overlooked by busy staff and not evident in sheep being moved/handled etc ie seen only when the sheep are quiet and calm. 

Happy to talk about my work via PM-been working on scab for 10 years now.


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## chaps89 (1 November 2017)

Advice for humans is to avoid aqueous cream and use emollient instead in case of reaction - maybe patch test first? https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/emollients/
Eta - I hope you get to the bottom of it and find something that works


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## SEL (2 November 2017)

Interesting discussions re scabs / mites. Given how close my 2 horses are I would be very surprised if the Appy doesn't have mites too - but she shows no signs.  I'm not sure if that's because she isn't feathered so doesn't have the surplus skin to eat, plus extra hair to hide in.

Dectomax injected today. Vaseline advised to try and soften the worst scabs with reassessment when back for 2nd jab in 2 weeks. No antibiotics right now, but we will keep on with the antihistamines if he keeps biting himself. 

I will be spending Sunday with potions, lotions and a draft horse distracting likit. Clipping his feathers would be ideal, but given he tried to kick under sedation last time it's a last resort!


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## MotherOfChickens (2 November 2017)

hope it has some effect SEL. My pony is much less itchy and *touches wood* the scabs seem to be resolving a couple of days after the second jagg. I've used Heel to Hoof as guessed lanolin might be useful but its very sticky stuff on a hairy pony (and as a Fell, I really dont want to clip)-better on the mess front that sudocrem and protocon though.


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## Cecile (2 November 2017)

MotherOfChickens said:



			hope it has some effect SEL. My pony is much less itchy and *touches wood* the scabs seem to be resolving a couple of days after the second jagg. I've used Heel to Hoof as guessed lanolin might be useful but its very sticky stuff on a hairy pony (and as a Fell, I really dont want to clip)-better on the mess front that sudocrem and protocon though.
		
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I really rate Heel to Hoof highly, I've had some amazing results with it and it doesn't seem to cause any stinging or upset whilst putting it on even with one that arrived with somewhat handy hooves, only used it for new arrivals with mud fever and rain scald tho but always have a tub handy

I did have one who looked like the elephant man when I applied sudocrem to a fly bite, emergency vet visit and the vet was highly impressed with her reaction to a silly bit of sudocrem.  Someone mentioned on here that she would of been allergic to the lanolin in it, I have never seen that reaction before or since


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## Bertolie (3 November 2017)

Biotin will make mallanders worse as it encourages the production of keratin, something you don't want in this instance. I've taken my mare off anything containing biotin and have to say her mallanders is far better lately.


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## Fincher10 (11 March 2019)

SEL said:



			Interesting discussions re scabs / mites. Given how close my 2 horses are I would be very surprised if the Appy doesn't have mites too - but she shows no signs.  I'm not sure if that's because she isn't feathered so doesn't have the surplus skin to eat, plus extra hair to hide in.

Dectomax injected today. Vaseline advised to try and soften the worst scabs with reassessment when back for 2nd jab in 2 weeks. No antibiotics right now, but we will keep on with the antihistamines if he keeps biting himself.

I will be spending Sunday with potions, lotions and a draft horse distracting likit. Clipping his feathers would be ideal, but given he tried to kick under sedation last time it's a last resort!
		
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Hi could you please let me know what you found to work on him in the end? Thanks


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## SEL (11 March 2019)

Fincher10 said:



			Hi could you please let me know what you found to work on him in the end? Thanks
		
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Ivermectin wash from the vets is still the best for him.


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## scrat (12 March 2019)

We are currently  using  this range for our shires. One cannot tolerate pig oil or sulphur so the shire oil and mallenders sallenders cream has helped sort out some sore scabs on legs. They have some useful information about these conditions here https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=523831608134279&id=335859456931496&__tn__=-R
Hope that helps


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