# Racehorse abuse in Australia



## cauda equina (18 October 2019)

http://www.news.com.au > sport > superracing > news-story

Abuse doesn't really begin to describe it, sadly

Sorry, link doesn't work but googling Caro Meldrum-Hanna racehorse investigation will find it


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## twiggy2 (18 October 2019)

Animals should treated with dignity and not subjected to pain but personally I think that trying to rehome every racehorse that retires is unachievable at best and subjecting many to ending up in the wrong hands at worst.
Slaughter is a viable option to my mind if carries out in a way that is as stress free to the animals as possible.
I personally object to the use of cattle prods but in Australia they are legal and freely avaliable so I would guess it's ok to use them on other animals at a slaughter house but the objection is to horses in particular being treated this way-that I don't understand.


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## milliepops (18 October 2019)

the video exposing the slaughterhouse is appalling.
https://www.abc.net.au/7.30/the-dark-side-of-the-horse-racing-industry/11614022

don't watch if you are sensitive about horse slaughter (lots of graphic footage).


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## cauda equina (18 October 2019)

twiggy2 said:



			Animals should treated with dignity and not subjected to pain but personally I think that trying to rehome every racehorse that retires is unachievable at best and subjecting many to ending up in the wrong hands at worst.
Slaughter is a viable option to my mind if carries out in a way that is as stress free to the animals as possible.
I personally object to the use of cattle prods but in Australia they are legal and freely avaliable so I would guess it's ok to use them on other animals at a slaughter house but the objection is to horses in particular being treated this way-that I don't understand.
		
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My objection is to horses being bolt-gunned repeatedly, and kicked and shocked while they are dying
Euthanasia is of course a viable option for horses who are no longer useful but it seems that some of these slaughtermen went out of their way to give these horses an awful death


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## twiggy2 (18 October 2019)

cauda equina said:



			My objection is to horses being bolt-gunned repeatedly, and kicked and shocked while they are dying
Euthanasia is of course a viable option for horses who are no longer useful but it seems that some of these slaughtermen went out of their way to give these horses an awful death
		
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You male my point very well for me, I object to that happening to any animal, a quick and as stress and pain-free death is a must.


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## honetpot (18 October 2019)

There has been so much research done on the least stressful, to the animal, way to slaughter them, you wonder in how anyone can think this is right. Itâ€™s poor stockman ship of the highest order. Most slaughter men want it quick and clean or it holds up the line, never mind thinking about welfare.
  For the sake of a few hundred pounds always have your horse shot or euthanised at home. 
 We have I think only two UK slaughter houses (someone may know better)licensed for horses so if you are selling your horse for pennies the chances are it will travel a long way to get there. If you are lucky the local hunt will do it, for the cost of a fancy rug.


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## Clodagh (18 October 2019)

The trouble with slaughter houses, are people who find that side of things 'interesting' will want to work there. Like paedophiles in the Catholic church.
I think cctv should be mandatory in all slaughterhouses. I'm not going to watch the footage.


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## milliepops (18 October 2019)

the video made me feel particularly sad because my ex racer is a fairly useless specimen who would quite possibly have ended up there if fate had meant he lived in a different country to here. Lots of anxious horses all grouped together waiting to go, lost little brown faces caught in the camera. 
I am not against humane slaughter of horses, i think a swift death is better than lingering on or being passed between homes, and I agree with twiggy I can't see how the numbers can add up to rehome every single horse out of racing. But the places shown in the video are doing those animals a great dis-service.  I don't know how those involved can sleep at night.


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## ester (18 October 2019)

I think we lost the one up north (turners/red lion) https://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/red-lion-abattoir-closes-due-to-risk-to-public-health-386988 and Potters were only doing one day a week and I have vague recollection that may have stopped too but I might have been imagining that now I'm out of area.


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## Elf On A Shelf (18 October 2019)

There are fates worse than death and some racehorses are so institutionalised or dangerous that they can't have a life outside of racing. But the torture these poor horses - and probably other animals in those slaughter houses is not acceptable in the slightest! I hope the people responsible are hung drawn and quartered!


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## fburton (19 October 2019)

Horrific abuse, those poor horses! 

Sad to see my friend Paul McGreevy moved to tears, but that is entirely the appropriate response of course.


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## ycbm (19 October 2019)

I can 't watch it, the pictures will stay in my head forever. Like Clodagh says, why aren't all abattoirs fitted with CCTV? I was so pleased when Morrisons announced that in future they would only buy meat from CCTV covered abattoirs. The other supermarkets all followed.


.


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## Mule (19 October 2019)

I can never watch those videos, it sounds horrific


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## TPO (19 October 2019)

I haven't clicked on any of these links but I've seen either the same or a similar video before.

Animal welfare in australia is known to be below par, especially the slaughter industry.

I dont know how you fix it, the racehorse industry in particular. The stables arent going to pay for humane pts at home when they make money selling to slaughter


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## Mule (19 October 2019)

TPO said:



			I haven't clicked on any of these links but I've seen either the same or a similar video before.

Animal welfare in australia is known to be below par, especially the slaughter industry.

I dont know how you fix it, the racehorse industry in particular. The stables arent going to pay for humane pts at home when they make money selling to slaughter
		
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Better regulation of abbatoirs like CCTV.


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## TPO (19 October 2019)

mule said:



			Better regulation of abbatoirs like CCTV.
		
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Oh absolutely but who's funding it? That's the crux of the matter

The fact that a large % of the country is suffering with extreme drought and stock is dying all over the place, suicide is up and farmers can't afford freight for hay yet the government isn't helping at all would indicate to me that policing slaughter houses (sadly) isnt on their agenda...


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## bonny (19 October 2019)

Whatâ€™s the point of CCTV unless someone is watching it and acting if necessary?


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## Mule (19 October 2019)

TPO said:



			Oh absolutely but who's funding it? That's the crux of the matter

The fact that a large % of the country is suffering with extreme drought and stock is dying all over the place, suicide is up and farmers can't afford freight for hay yet the government isn't helping at all would indicate to me that policing slaughter houses (sadly) isnt on their agenda...
		
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Good point. It's shocking that the government won't help the farmers. It's not a poor country, they could surely afford to.


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## milliepops (19 October 2019)

CCTV in abattoirs would be a step forward IMO, but the problem that the video explained, is that there seems to be some corruption or at least collusion in the industry that is allowing race horse and trotters to end up in abattoirs when they are recorded as still being active in the industry or retired into new homes.
I think I've remembered it correctly that the NSW racing authorities committed to rehoming all animals and tracking them all on a database. They were not permitted to end up at the abattoir directly or indirectly out of racing, yet the investigation showed hundreds upon hundreds of them passing through horse sales and going straight there. Some of them were still recorded on the online racing database as being active in the sport even after they had been slaughtered.

How are the owners/trainers not complicit in this if that's the case?
Something very odd is going on, the investigators estimated that c4000 horses were passing through abattoirs annually when the industry's own figures is less than 1% of horses leaving racing, which equates to 34 per year. it just doesn't add up.
So yeah I think CCTV would be a step forward for the welfare of all animals going to slaughter - requiring multiple bolts to kill them is totally unacceptable as is the treatment - violence, kicking, electric shocks etc- while they are alive. but these horses aren't officially there in the first place, so it's (oh god) shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted.

(correct me if I've remembered the numbers wrong, I don't want to watch it again)


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## Mule (19 October 2019)

bonny said:



			Whatâ€™s the point of CCTV unless someone is watching it and acting if necessary?
		
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It's still a good deterrent. Ime just knowing you're being recorded makes people careful.


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## fburton (19 October 2019)

bonny said:



			Whatâ€™s the point of CCTV unless someone is watching it and acting if necessary?
		
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One possibility would be to stream the footage as webcam, or to have recordings available for download and therefore potentially checkable. This is easily doable with technology today, and not necessarily much of an extra expense.


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## Orangehorse (19 October 2019)

I don't want to watch it, it sound utterly horrid.  I'm not against slaughter for horses, but it must be done humanely, so let's hope this makes an impact in Australia.

Of course, in the USA, stopping slaughter had the worse consequence  of horses being shipped thousands of miles to Canada or Mexico where the conditions are worse.


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## ester (19 October 2019)

And canada ship live to Japan and south korea. 
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/horse-transportation-cfia-slaughter-japan-1.5201246


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## MotherOfChickens (19 October 2019)

I haven't watched the video. I don't think abuse in abbatoirs will end until CCTV is brought in but more than that, there has to be a way of cycling workers so that compassion fatigue is not an issue.


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## Mule (19 October 2019)

ester said:



			And canada ship live to Japan and south korea.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/horse-transportation-cfia-slaughter-japan-1.5201246

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Christ, that's way too far


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## Mule (19 October 2019)

MotherOfChickens said:



			I haven't watched the video. I don't think abuse in abbatoirs will end until CCTV is brought in but more than that, there has to be a way of cycling workers so that compassion fatigue is not an issue.
		
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True, It's not likely thst most workers start in the job planning to be cruel. There's always some of course.


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## milliepops (19 October 2019)

I had not appreciated that the abattoir that featured heavily in the video was actually not allowed to use those cattle prods :
 from https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ghter-hypocrisy-irresponsibility-on-all-sides 
"Export abattoirs such as Meramist must also comply with European Union rules around animal welfare, including those banning the use of the electric prodders on horses, and are required to have an Australian government vet on site while slaughter is taking place."


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## TheMule (19 October 2019)

ester said:



			I think we lost the one up north (turners/red lion) https://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/red-lion-abattoir-closes-due-to-risk-to-public-health-386988 and Potters were only doing one day a week and I have vague recollection that may have stopped too but I might have been imagining that now I'm out of area.
		
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Potterâ€™s are running and busier than they were, partly due to their more accessible location, partly as they're now the only one (which is a crying shame, horses are being shipped over from Ireland and travelling down from Scotland to be slaughtered near Swindon)
I spend a bit of time there and it is as dignified an end as possible, the guys there are very quiet with the horses, they're shot with a bullet and death is instant. They welcome visitors but you do have to have health and safety training to go in.


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## ester (19 October 2019)

Thanks for the clarification TM, I wasn't sure and it's not always the easiest thing to check out whether I'm remembering things right or not!


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## The Fuzzy Furry (19 October 2019)

ester said:



			And canada ship live to Japan and south korea. 
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/horse-transportation-cfia-slaughter-japan-1.5201246

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This is false news, none are exported on the hoof over there, costs alone just dont add up as the far east is v expensive to ship anything to,  let alone live horses.
That link is still being spread on Facebook,  but its completely untrue.  I'll try and find the link to the experts who shredded that falsehood.


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## Mule (19 October 2019)

The Fuzzy Furry said:



			This is false news, none are exported on the hoof over there, costs alone just dont add up as the far east is v expensive to ship anything to,  let alone live horses.
That link is still being spread on Facebook,  but its completely untrue.  I'll try and find the link to the experts who shredded that falsehood.
		
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That's good anyway.


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## ester (19 October 2019)

Thanks TFF I hadn't actually heard it before, and came across it when looking to see what the current situ was in canada as I know there has been recent noise about them stopping too.


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## rascal (26 October 2019)

milliepops said:



			the video exposing the slaughterhouse is appalling.
https://www.abc.net.au/7.30/the-dark-side-of-the-horse-racing-industry/11614022

don't watch if you are sensitive about horse slaughter (lots of graphic footage).
		
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This is exactly WHY i do not agree with racing of any sort. My brother in law had racehorses,  but does not know where they ended up, it seems a lot more, do not know or care, they have their fun, but do not secure a good home for their horses, they are just not bothered once they retire they are not interested anymore.
The film of how those horses were treated is disgusting.


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## Northern (26 October 2019)

TPO said:



			Animal welfare in australia is known to be below par, especially the slaughter industry.
		
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TPO, not trying to be narky but can you explain this sentence? How exactly is animal welfare considered worse in Australia than in any other country? Its a pretty generalised statement (though I agree about the slaughter industry part).



milliepops said:



			CCTV in abattoirs would be a step forward IMO, but the problem that the video explained, is that there seems to be some corruption or at least collusion in the industry that is allowing race horse and trotters to end up in abattoirs when they are recorded as still being active in the industry or retired into new homes.
I think I've remembered it correctly that the NSW racing authorities committed to rehoming all animals and tracking them all on a database. They were not permitted to end up at the abattoir directly or indirectly out of racing, yet the investigation showed hundreds upon hundreds of them passing through horse sales and going straight there. Some of them were still recorded on the online racing database as being active in the sport even after they had been slaughtered.

How are the owners/trainers not complicit in this if that's the case?
Something very odd is going on, the investigators estimated that c4000 horses were passing through abattoirs annually when the industry's own figures is less than 1% of horses leaving racing, which equates to 34 per year. it just doesn't add up.
So yeah I think CCTV would be a step forward for the welfare of all animals going to slaughter - requiring multiple bolts to kill them is totally unacceptable as is the treatment - violence, kicking, electric shocks etc- while they are alive. but these horses aren't officially there in the first place, so it's (oh god) shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted.

(correct me if I've remembered the numbers wrong, I don't want to watch it again)
		
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MP, unfortunately only Racing NSW has implemented this policy on traceability of the retired thoroughbreds. The following is from a recent statement by the CEO of Racing NSW:

"Racing NSW is the only State in Australia that has a Rule of Racing that prohibits horses from being sent to a knackery or abattoir if they have been predominantly domiciled in the NSW Thoroughbred Racing Industry. Further, in NSW it is illegal for an abattoir to process a horse for human consumption, unlike other States."

No other states have followed their example, including Queensland. Meramist, the abbatoir shown in the footage, is in QLD and thus they will have a higher proportion of recently retired TBs than the abattoirs down South - likely a key reason the 7:30 journalists chose this particular abbatoir, given their slant on the story aimed at the racing industry. Racing NSW has stated that 12 of the 14 TBs shown in the footage were outside their jurisdiction. Now that does leave 2 from NSW that should have not have ended up there, which is where the current problem lies.

A trainer of two of the 14 horses shown at the abbatoir has released an online statement explaining that those horses had been retired with them (one had been in his foremans paddock for a year) and rehomed, one to a certified retrainer and one to a private show home. This is where the horses lose traceability, this is where they get lost and its a bit farfetched to blame an industry for horses that go through 2nd/3rd/4th hands and then end up at the abattoir. The 7:30 report journalists sat on this disgusting abbatoir footage for TWO years, they didn't alert the relevant authorities, they waited for the opportune moment to release this report for maximum sensationalism. The abbatoir has no connection to the racing industry, the horrific treatment of the horses there is a separate issue.

Don't get me wrong, I think the industry needs to step up more and more and take responsibility for where their horses end up. They need to implement future strategies to curb the breeding numbers, because the overproduction of TBs is a main driver in the amount of horses who end up at the abbatoirs or in worse situations. However what we really need is a solution for now. I have seen not one of the activist crying foul suggest a viable solution, the majority of them are not offering to take on a TB and its associated feed and maintenance costs. There are enough low end, poorly kept TBs from private homes on the market at the moment, they have a glut to chose from.

So what is the solution here? Should the racing authorities retain ownership of EVERY horse to guarantee traceability? I personally do not want to work with a horse that I do not outright own, on the perchance that it might be taken away tomorrow after all the work I have put in. But I also accept that there are people with TBs out there who cannot cope, with the temperaments or the maintenance costs. Racing NSW already own several properties where they spell out retired TBs and have certified retrainers prepare them for life outside the racing industry. I personally think that there should be a financial incentive given to (vetted) people to take on an OTTB for retraining, this incentive can be a percentage of the prize of every race run. Its not cheap but it will go a ways to rehoming a good percentage of physically and mentally sound TBs. I will add that I am not against humane slaughter of horses, if it is done correctly it is a better outcome than starving in an ignorants paddock.

My final point I wanted to make to you all (people outside of Australia  ), is that we are in the grips of a horrific drought. There is no  grass on the ground and most of the stock on the Eastern half of the continent is being 100% hand fed. Hay prices are horrific as are horse feed prices. To give you some idea, a small bale of hay here is being sold for 16 pounds. Just one, and your average TB requires 2-3 bales a week at the moment with no grass cover. Unfortunately this has flushed out a lot of horses from the woodwork into the saleyards. Not just TBs, but a whole studs are getting rid of stock that they can no longer feed. And I can tell you the majority of horses at theses sales are NOT TBs or standardbreds, this was widely ignored by this particular report. Long range forecasts are grim, we are expecting another dry and hot summer and there will be more horses coming through. This is in no way excusing the fact that fresh OTTBs end up at abbatoirs, but rather to explain that this report was (probably knowingly, for extra effect) released in a time of extreme hardship, something your average city folk don't really understand.

Sorry for the essay, I just wanted to address some points. How does this work in the UK? Does every racehorse get rehomed? Are there perhaps policies that the industry in Australia can make note of and implement?


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## TPO (27 October 2019)

Just what I said. There are frequently filmed examples of animal cruelty.

As you'll know live export is a main market for Australia. The whole fedlot environment; over feeding cattle to fatten them before their 6wks on the boat to Indonesia for halal slaughter. Workers in horseback at the feedlot forcing cattle to their feet. 

Throwing sheep onto and off from road trains, kicking pigs...its all there on film if you care to see such things.

I worked on a few cattle stations in NT having gone into it totally naive. 

I would also say that IMO australia is a completey different culture in the outback at least, I didnt spend much time in the cities. Cattle were just a way to make money/livelihood and horses were just work vehicles  and easily replaceable. 

Any talk of animal welfare was shot down  aggressively and from what I used to see online from some of the Australians that I worked with they still treat livestock with contempt.

The treatment of thoroughbreds had also been well documented and the less than ideal way in which they have been treated at slaughterhouses. 

The drought is awful


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## Northern (27 October 2019)

TPO said:



			Just what I said. There are frequently filmed examples of animal cruelty.

As you'll know live export is a main market for Australia. The whole fedlot environment; over feeding cattle to fatten them before their 6wks on the boat to Indonesia for halal slaughter. Workers in horseback at the feedlot forcing cattle to their feet.

Throwing sheep onto and off from road trains, kicking pigs...its all there on film if you care to see such things.

I worked on a few cattle stations in NT having gone into it totally naive.

I would also say that IMO australia is a completey different culture in the outback at least, I didnt spend much time in the cities. Cattle were just a way to make money/livelihood and horses were just work vehicles  and easily replaceable.

Any talk of animal welfare was shot down  aggressively and from what I used to see online from some of the Australians that I worked with they still treat livestock with contempt.

The treatment of thoroughbreds had also been well documented and the less than ideal way in which they have been treated at slaughterhouses.

The drought is awful
		
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Ok, so your generalised statement refers to the livestock industry, perhaps you need to clarify that better next time. 

I agree with the treatment of animals in the outback and live export, unfortunately the industry is so big and lucrative I can't see that changing anytime soon. I will say that they are working to ban live export though, and some better regulation has been implemented in regards to the conditions the livestock experience on the export ships. I don't understand why you think these stations would hold cattle other than to make money/livelihoods? You think that people keep 10,000s of cattle and sheep just as pets? What do you want them to do with the cattle? Give each of them a nice bath daily? They are range cattle specifically bred for tough conditions and yes, as a source of meat for the meat trade and sheep for their fleece and meat. It exists, as I am sure it does in the UK. I'd say that you have probably at some point come into contact or bought something that has used Australian wool.

The horses are work horses, they aren't little pets. They are bred to work and generally well looked after - why wouldn't you for a useful work partner? The majority of the stock horses are actually quite valuable and are often competed with. Of course there are exceptions, but just because these horses aren't groomed daily and put in stables every night and expected to live out with cattle doesn't make it cruel. Or do you think no horse should ever be used for a working purpose?


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## rascal (27 October 2019)

Northern said:



			TPO, not trying to be narky but can you explain this sentence? How exactly is animal welfare considered worse in Australia than in any other country? Its a pretty generalised statement (though I agree about the slaughter industry part).



MP, unfortunately only Racing NSW has implemented this policy on traceability of the retired thoroughbreds. The following is from a recent statement by the CEO of Racing NSW:

"Racing NSW is the only State in Australia that has a Rule of Racing that prohibits horses from being sent to a knackery or abattoir if they have been predominantly domiciled in the NSW Thoroughbred Racing Industry. Further, in NSW it is illegal for an abattoir to process a horse for human consumption, unlike other States."

No other states have followed their example, including Queensland. Meramist, the abbatoir shown in the footage, is in QLD and thus they will have a higher proportion of recently retired TBs than the abattoirs down South - likely a key reason the 7:30 journalists chose this particular abbatoir, given their slant on the story aimed at the racing industry. Racing NSW has stated that 12 of the 14 TBs shown in the footage were outside their jurisdiction. Now that does leave 2 from NSW that should have not have ended up there, which is where the current problem lies.

A trainer of two of the 14 horses shown at the abbatoir has released an online statement explaining that those horses had been retired with them (one had been in his foremans paddock for a year) and rehomed, one to a certified retrainer and one to a private show home. This is where the horses lose traceability, this is where they get lost and its a bit farfetched to blame an industry for horses that go through 2nd/3rd/4th hands and then end up at the abattoir. The 7:30 report journalists sat on this disgusting abbatoir footage for TWO years, they didn't alert the relevant authorities, they waited for the opportune moment to release this report for maximum sensationalism. The abbatoir has no connection to the racing industry, the horrific treatment of the horses there is a separate issue.

Don't get me wrong, I think the industry needs to step up more and more and take responsibility for where their horses end up. They need to implement future strategies to curb the breeding numbers, because the overproduction of TBs is a main driver in the amount of horses who end up at the abbatoirs or in worse situations. However what we really need is a solution for now. I have seen not one of the activist crying foul suggest a viable solution, the majority of them are not offering to take on a TB and its associated feed and maintenance costs. There are enough low end, poorly kept TBs from private homes on the market at the moment, they have a glut to chose from.

So what is the solution here? Should the racing authorities retain ownership of EVERY horse to guarantee traceability? I personally do not want to work with a horse that I do not outright own, on the perchance that it might be taken away tomorrow after all the work I have put in. But I also accept that there are people with TBs out there who cannot cope, with the temperaments or the maintenance costs. Racing NSW already own several properties where they spell out retired TBs and have certified retrainers prepare them for life outside the racing industry. I personally think that there should be a financial incentive given to (vetted) people to take on an OTTB for retraining, this incentive can be a percentage of the prize of every race run. Its not cheap but it will go a ways to rehoming a good percentage of physically and mentally sound TBs. I will add that I am not against humane slaughter of horses, if it is done correctly it is a better outcome than starving in an ignorants paddock.

My final point I wanted to make to you all (people outside of Australia  ), is that we are in the grips of a horrific drought. There is no  grass on the ground and most of the stock on the Eastern half of the continent is being 100% hand fed. Hay prices are horrific as are horse feed prices. To give you some idea, a small bale of hay here is being sold for 16 pounds. Just one, and your average TB requires 2-3 bales a week at the moment with no grass cover. Unfortunately this has flushed out a lot of horses from the woodwork into the saleyards. Not just TBs, but a whole studs are getting rid of stock that they can no longer feed. And I can tell you the majority of horses at theses sales are NOT TBs or standardbreds, this was widely ignored by this particular report. Long range forecasts are grim, we are expecting another dry and hot summer and there will be more horses coming through. This is in no way excusing the fact that fresh OTTBs end up at abbatoirs, but rather to explain that this report was (probably knowingly, for extra effect) released in a time of extreme hardship, something your average city folk don't really understand.

Sorry for the essay, I just wanted to address some points. How does this work in the UK? Does every racehorse get rehomed? Are there perhaps policies that the industry in Australia can make note of and implement?
		
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Thousands of racehorses also go for slaughter in the UK, and exported as meat to France,  this includes  young horses who are not fast enough,  and retired.


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## TPO (27 October 2019)

Northern said:



			Ok, so your generalised statement refers to the livestock industry, perhaps you need to clarify that better next time. 

I agree with the treatment of animals in the outback and live export, unfortunately the industry is so big and lucrative I can't see that changing anytime soon. I will say that they are working to ban live export though, and some better regulation has been implemented in regards to the conditions the livestock experience on the export ships. I don't understand why you think these stations would hold cattle other than to make money/livelihoods? You think that people keep 10,000s of cattle and sheep just as pets? What do you want them to do with the cattle? Give each of them a nice bath daily? They are range cattle specifically bred for tough conditions and yes, as a source of meat for the meat trade and sheep for their fleece and meat. It exists, as I am sure it does in the UK. I'd say that you have probably at some point come into contact or bought something that has used Australian wool.

The horses are work horses, they aren't little pets. They are bred to work and generally well looked after - why wouldn't you for a useful work partner? The majority of the stock horses are actually quite valuable and are often competed with. Of course there are exceptions, but just because these horses aren't groomed daily and put in stables every night and expected to live out with cattle doesn't make it cruel. Or do you think no horse should ever be used for a working purpose?
		
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What is your problem and why the attitude?

I'm well aware that cattle are a livelihood and not pets. However there are good and bad ways to manage livestock. There is no need for eye gouging when moving them up a race as one example.

I have no problem with horses having a job but again there are good and bad ways to treat them. Tying a horse up right straight onto metal yard to punch it in the face for not picking up its feet is not something I agree with yet some.of the people I worked with did. They didnt care about the animals and it's not because the animals were "just" livestock as good stockmen do treat the animals.woth respect.

I'm fully up to speed with the value of a good working horse, especially if itll also win at campdrafting. I at no point said that all horses should be stables and kissed on the nose. 

Its clearly not just the farming industry as this whole thread centres around the horses out of racing and the lack of standards and ethics in the slaughter industry. 

What is it that you are struggling to comprehend so badly that you are purposely taking text out of context and twisting it to fit your own agenda??


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## TPO (27 October 2019)

rascal said:



			Thousands of racehorses also go for slaughter in the UK, and exported as meat to France,  this includes  young horses who are not fast enough,  and retired.
		
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I never said that uk horses didnt go for slaughter? The original topic being the lack of standards and cruelty in Australia slaughter houses as demonstrated in the numerous videos available to watch.


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## Northern (27 October 2019)

TPO said:



			What is your problem and why the attitude?

I'm well aware that cattle are a livelihood and not pets. However there are good and bad ways to manage livestock. There is no need for eye gouging when moving them up a race as one example.

I have no problem with horses having a job but again there are good and bad ways to treat them. Tying a horse up right straight onto metal yard to punch it in the face for not picking up its feet is not something I agree with yet some.of the people I worked with did. They didnt care about the animals and it's not because the animals were "just" livestock as good stockmen do treat the animals.woth respect.

I'm fully up to speed with the value of a good working horse, especially if itll also win at campdrafting. I at no point said that all horses should be stables and kissed on the nose.

Its clearly not just the farming industry as this whole thread centres around the horses out of racing and the lack of standards and ethics in the slaughter industry.

What is it that you are struggling to comprehend so badly that you are purposely taking text out of context and twisting it to fit your own agenda??
		
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I don't see a problem with my reply, nor any attitude, merely trying to clear up some misconceptions you yourself wrote above. I'm sorry if it's touched a nerve with you. You said you visited the NT. Workmen are notoriously difficult to keep longterm in a climate like that - it's hard, harsh work, so I imagine a lot of the stockmen you saw were not necessarily horsemen (or even good ones) as such. I am not saying disrespect and cruelty doesn't happen, just as you witnessed. 

I have no agenda, nor have I twisted your words. You said yourself that "Animal welfare in australia is known to be below par, especially the slaughter industry", which implied that all animal welfare in Australia is below par. You brought up the livestock industry in this thread, not me. I was asking you to explain why you would post a blanket statement like that. I also didn't say horses needed to be "kissed on the nose"


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## Northern (27 October 2019)

rascal said:



			Thousands of racehorses also go for slaughter in the UK, and exported as meat to France,  this includes  young horses who are not fast enough,  and retired.
		
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This doesn't surprise me really, it is not an Australian centred issue clearly (I believe the USA have bigger numbers being exported to Mexico?). I presume because the UK has a passport system that the horses bound for slaughter are recorded somewhere? The current proposal that Racing NSW in particular is behind is a national traceability register for all horses. I am not sure how they intend to implement this, given that there will be some resistance to paying the inevitable fee to register their horses. Perhaps a passport system that is issued with every microchip number might work if the information could be fed into a central database. Registered TBs here are all clearly freeze branded with the information on an online studbook, its actually quite an invaluable tool to check out any TBs for sale.


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## Elf On A Shelf (27 October 2019)

Not as many UK horses go for slaughter any more. Not directly from the trainers anyway. Though a lot do go through the bin end sales and are bought by meat men and dealers. 

Because of the bad press a lot of yards/owners now try to rehome horses themselves or send them to the rehoming centres. I know I spend A LOT of time sifting through messages trying to find the best home possible for our horses. We dont just let the first person who comes along take them if they are not suitable. And we always make sure the new owners know the horses can come straight back to us if needed.


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## twiggy2 (27 October 2019)

The problem is that what is happening has been banned and those at the top of the group who banned it don't seem to give a #hit. 
They banned it as a direct response to the blanket ban on greyhound racing in an effort to prevent a blanket ban on horse racing. In short it was not banned as they felt what was happening was a welfare issue but to curry favour with people on the fence with regards to the whole idea of racing, to prevent more support for those who wanted racing banned. They don't look to be policing it and from the attitude of the guy in that clip who spoke on their behalf they don't really care, it's an 'on paper' policy.
All animals all over the world deserve to it with as little pain, fear and stress as possible especially when we choose to kill them for our own convenience.
I am not a huge fan of slaughter houses full stop, as mentioned people who slaughter animals day in day out are highly likely to be people who enjoy it! Or are so hardened to it they don't care anymore and neither of these is good for the animal losing its life at their hands, I believe cctv in all slaughter houses would help and to be honest I find it terrible that they are not in place.
I believe the animals are stressed from the moment thet are herded up ready to load to go to the slaughter house and mobile slaughter houses would be so uch kinder, they would still smell, blood, fear and death but their experience of it all would be much lessened to my mind.
I have no issue with slaughter if done as thoughtfully as possible, they are not meat until they are dead, they are living beings until that point and should be treated as such.
I truely believe that the pheasant, partridge, grouse, hare, rabbit and deer and other animals that live their lives (or th vast majority of it) wild nd then one day shot have it o much easier and yet in the UK so much of it is wasted as people on't eat it because it's cruel!!


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## Northern (27 October 2019)

EKW said:



			Not as many UK horses go for slaughter any more. Not directly from the trainers anyway. Though a lot do go through the bin end sales and are bought by meat men and dealers.

Because of the bad press a lot of yards/owners now try to rehome horses themselves or send them to the rehoming centres. I know I spend A LOT of time sifting through messages trying to find the best home possible for our horses. We dont just let the first person who comes along take them if they are not suitable. And we always make sure the new owners know the horses can come straight back to us if needed.
		
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Certainly the TBs I know have been rehomed by the trainers or their associates. I think that more careful vetting as you do needs to be carried out for a good outcome. 

Iâ€™d love to take another, especially now when a lot of owners and breeders are downsizing, but feed is too expensive at the moment ðŸ˜”


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## Northern (27 October 2019)

twiggy2 said:



			The problem is that what is happening has been banned and those at the top of the group who banned it don't seem to give a #hit.
They banned it as a direct response to the blanket ban on greyhound racing in an effort to prevent a blanket ban on horse racing. In short it was not banned as they felt what was happening was a welfare issue but to curry favour with people on the fence with regards to the whole idea of racing, to prevent more support for those who wanted racing banned. They don't look to be policing it and from the attitude of the guy in that clip who spoke on their behalf they don't really care, it's an 'on paper' policy.
		
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This is a really good point. Iâ€™ve certainly never seen or heard of a representative of Racing NSW visiting to enforce the policy.


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## Mule (27 October 2019)

twiggy2 said:



			The problem is that what is happening has been banned and those at the top of the group who banned it don't seem to give a #hit.
They banned it as a direct response to the blanket ban on greyhound racing in an effort to prevent a blanket ban on horse racing. In short it was not banned as they felt what was happening was a welfare issue but to curry favour with people on the fence with regards to the whole idea of racing, to prevent more support for those who wanted racing banned. They don't look to be policing it and from the attitude of the guy in that clip who spoke on their behalf they don't really care, it's an 'on paper' policy.
All animals all over the world deserve to it with as little pain, fear and stress as possible especially when we choose to kill them for our own convenience.
I am not a huge fan of slaughter houses full stop, as mentioned people who slaughter animals day in day out are highly likely to be people who enjoy it! Or are so hardened to it they don't care anymore and neither of these is good for the animal losing its life at their hands, I believe cctv in all slaughter houses would help and to be honest I find it terrible that they are not in place.
I believe the animals are stressed from the moment thet are herded up ready to load to go to the slaughter house and mobile slaughter houses would be so uch kinder, they would still smell, blood, fear and death but their experience of it all would be much lessened to my mind.
I have no issue with slaughter if done as thoughtfully as possible, they are not meat until they are dead, they are living beings until that point and should be treated as such.
I truely believe that the pheasant, partridge, grouse, hare, rabbit and deer and other animals that live their lives (or th vast majority of it) wild nd then one day shot have it o much easier and yet in the UK so much of it is wasted as people on't eat it because it's cruel!!
		
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I think the smell of death in the abattoirs is likely to cause a lot of distress. It wouldn't have occurred to me except that there is a xc course near me that backs on to a hunt. The area where they take the fallen stock is beside a field where you jump up a wall and down a log. It's near impossible to get a horse to go in to that field. It has a pretty strong smell on days that they have dead animals there so I can see why the horses don't want to go there.


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## tristar (27 October 2019)

i was watching a dvd of sea the stars which features a tb which one i don`t know, being broken as a yearling, in a small round pen, and backed after a few hours work, by a large youth,  the blxxdy thing was hopping lame, there was clare balding gushing on and all those others idiots  going on as if the sun shone out of racing, it CAN be a disgusting place even at the top, but the its the sheer ignorance of those involved that put me off, our rescue horse has a better  life than  a lot of those tbs,  what does that say about racing,  


and yes i have been breaking and training horses for 50 years so not talking out my arxe


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## BBH (4 November 2019)

Ive just read this on the BBC website and it's made me sick to the core . Absolutely disgusting.


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## jaquelin (4 November 2019)

I hope this news report gets a lot of play and along with the latest horse death at Santa Anita causes changes to the industry. They are very close to banning racing in California. The US problem is out of control drug usage and to a lesser extent poor breeding. 
The Oz video showed some breathtaking hypocrisy. Yes, doubtless feed is expensive, but crickey, some of the slaughtered horses won Â£400,000. Surely some of that could go towards retirement. One was slaughtered 8 days after  it was retired . The trainers involved should be hanging their heads in shame.


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## Hormonal Filly (5 November 2019)

It was incredibility hard to watch that video. It amazes me how 8 days after it retired one was slaughtered.
Does this mean most of them are injured that end up there? I can't see any other reason to slaughter horses who have won over Â£100,000 in prize money. How very sad.


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## JanetGeorge (5 November 2019)

jaquelin said:



			I hope this news report gets a lot of play and along with the latest horse death at Santa Anita causes changes to the industry. They are very close to banning racing in California. The US problem is out of control drug usage and to a lesser extent poor breeding.
The Oz video showed some breathtaking hypocrisy. Yes, doubtless feed is expensive, but crickey, some of the slaughtered horses won Â£400,000. Surely some of that could go towards retirement. One was slaughtered 8 days after  it was retired . The trainers involved should be hanging their heads in shame.
		
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Unfortunately, it's the owners' choice.  Some just can't be bothered to find a good home, or cover retirement costs - however good the horse has been.

This chap never won a penny - and I bought him for meat money.  He turned out to be one of the best showjumpers of his day (in Australia) because his owners bothered to try and find a home.  It took them 6 months to find me - and I confess his brakes were NOT great.  He would definitely not have done anywhere near as well with me on his back - but at least I got him seen and ridden with the BEST rider in Australia (Art Uytendaal.)


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## tristar (5 November 2019)

Northern said:



			Ok, so your generalised statement refers to the livestock industry, perhaps you need to clarify that better next time. 

I agree with the treatment of animals in the outback and live export, unfortunately the industry is so big and lucrative I can't see that changing anytime soon. I will say that they are working to ban live export though, and some better regulation has been implemented in regards to the conditions the livestock experience on the export ships. I don't understand why you think these stations would hold cattle other than to make money/livelihoods? You think that people keep 10,000s of cattle and sheep just as pets? What do you want them to do with the cattle? Give each of them a nice bath daily? They are range cattle specifically bred for tough conditions and yes, as a source of meat for the meat trade and sheep for their fleece and meat. It exists, as I am sure it does in the UK. I'd say that you have probably at some point come into contact or bought something that has used Australian wool.

The horses are work horses, they aren't little pets. They are bred to work and generally well looked after - why wouldn't you for a useful work partner? The majority of the stock horses are actually quite valuable and are often competed with. Of course there are exceptions, but just because these horses aren't groomed daily and put in stables every night and expected to live out with cattle doesn't make it cruel. Or do you think no horse should ever be used for a working purpose?
		
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the more i hear.............................what an attitude!


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## luckyoldme (5 November 2019)

ForbiddenHorse said:



			It was incredibility hard to watch that video. It amazes me how 8 days after it retired one was slaughtered.
Does this mean most of them are injured that end up there? I can't see any other reason to slaughter horses who have won over Â£100,000 in prize money. How very sad.
		
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Its just a buisiness and the people that own them are money people.  Once a horse is of no use to them its dead money. They cant possibly keep every horse they have finished with and it costs money to look after them until they find another home . 
It would make perfect sense if only they weren't living creatures.


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## tristar (6 November 2019)

just off to pamper and dole out treats, polos carrotts etc, make ready nice stables for tonight, and give hugs and kisses, and extra ones for all the horses in world who never knew such things. let alone being broken in with consideration and knowledge of how a horse really functions.



ForbiddenHorse said:



			It was incredibility hard to watch that video. It amazes me how 8 days after it retired one was slaughtered.
Does this mean most of them are injured that end up there? I can't see any other reason to slaughter horses who have won over Â£100,000 in prize money. How very sad.
		
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no, loads are perfect horses in the best of health, just coming up to the best years, sound and in wonderful condition,   is the brutal reality, superb horses cut down for human, i wont say greed, alone,  but  total ignorance and brutality


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## Orangehorse (6 November 2019)

This is so hard for us, in our green and pleasant land.  I haven't seen the video, don't want to.  I don't want to watch horses being tortured and frightened before they are killed.  I don't have a problem with slaughter, if it is done humanely.  I have been to Potters and it was very well done there, at least what I saw.

It seems so brutal for us, to have horses slaughtered that have been good servants and won their owners money and have many more years of useful life.

BUT, as we have heard from Australia, there is a drought and horrid things happen when there is no food for pets, or at least it is so expensive. What is the alternative?  Quick death or death through starvation.  I know there are replies saying, "but the owners are rich enough to pay for fodder" - well they maybe but they obviously don't wish to.

It has been through the outcry in this country that many more owners and trainers are making an effort to find homes for their retired horses, but it wasn't always the case in the past.  Hopefully this horrid video will make the racing authorities in Australia take the responsibility of finding homes for retired racehorses.

Though have to agree that some of the stories told by Brits who have worked in Australia as vets or farm hands are shocking.  Maybe, 30 years on things are different, I hope so.


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## Aru (8 November 2019)

Australia is very very different in attitude when it comes to the welfare of farm animals from my brief foray into large animal practice as a student here. 
Factory farming to a whole other degree. It isn't pleasant and economics make choices not ethics or welfare. Some of that attitude does appear to spread into the horse racing world. These horses arent pets. They are seen as property and once no longer fit for function are disposed of either via rehoming or slaughter..thats the crux of the issue. The attitude isn't that horses are pets. They are livestock like cows and other farm animals for a great many people in the industry here. There isn't a secondary industry present to move them into after racing either. There are better options for pets the off the track tbs here if you want a pleasure horse.

With the ongoing drought prices of basic feed and hay have also skyrocketed and that is very very relevent.Economics are playing a massive factor in the amount of tb's and standardbreds ending up slaughtered at the moment..
Every year more are produced and there isnt a big market for them in retirement. There never was a big market but the droughts just ramped things up to a higher level as tbs are not good doers and need a lot of feed. They are expensive to keep. But it is not just racers being slaughtered at the moment. The droughts affecting the entire horse industry and farming here in massive swaths of the country. 

Most of inland drought areas are depopulating their animal levels across the board at the moment. Farms the used to stand herds of beef or sheep have depopulated them all  over last few years and that included their working horses. The land that used to be fit for farming is dead without rain. Nothing grows in these longterm droughts. They have no food and the rain hasn't come so there is no future hope for pasture to save them next year. Its hit crisis point in a lot of areas. The wild brumbly levels have been dropping and dropping as they starve or dehydrate as well. There is nothing growing to eat and the water levels dropped so some areas are running out of water. Even in previously well hydrated areas like Armidale in nsw the normal rain hasn't come.That town has less then 400 days of water left in their reservoir at the moment. No water,no green growth, no feed no animals can be kept alive long term.When thats going on in the background in limits the number of vaible rehoming options for the tbs...

Humane slaughter isnt the worse thing that could happen to these animals- seizures and surrenders of starving animals are happening a lot here at the moment from pet homes as well. 

The main issue that I see isn't the deaths of tbs that are happening. In the short term it is unfortunately needed. At crux of the issue is the entire industry produces to many animals yearly and doesn't have a large secondary industry to rehome them into. Until rehoming programs and the attitude shift begins to occur, and god knows thats not happening as quickly as it did in the uk, then there needs to be a humane options for the sheer number of horses who are leaving racing. They arent going to keep them in retirement. These are not pets and are seen as property. And at the moment even the pet industry's feeling the strain of the drought. They have to go somewhere and a humane death is better then starvation...or being shipped overseas to face their death abroad. Talking about reducing breeding amd forcing accountability on the owners of the racers etc is a long term potential fix...but its not a short term one.

The issue is that the slaughter houses arent been heavily regulated and forced to act humanely at all times. People underestimate how much the European welfare laws impact on different situations within the likes of our farming and food industries. Its does make an impact in the likes abbatoirs where standards are actually heavily enforced in the UK and Ireland. Yes bad apples exist but there are regulations and checks exist to minimise the chances of a workers being able to be cruel and get away with it. Theres some regulations here...but it is not the same degree at all.


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## tristar (8 November 2019)

well the answer is to stop breeding so many, and pets,?    they are living creatures not property


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## bonny (8 November 2019)

I doubt very much that the majority of young flat racers find a home here when they retire or that anybody even tries on their behalf. There are homes for older jumping horses or reasonably sane older flat horses but where do people imagine the 2 year olds go or the colts ? I thought the issue with the video was horses being horribly mistreated at slaughter houses not whether Australia has a drought etc. Also I donâ€™t think many people here view racehorses as pets .....


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## The Fuzzy Furry (8 November 2019)

Many flat failed 2 and 3 yr olds tend to be picked up by polo yards here, I used to take a fair few from them at rising 4 to turn into hackers etc if they had failed at stick and ball.


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## TPO (8 November 2019)

Going totally off topic but in Aus there is a big polocrosse scene and that takes in a lot of flat racers.

The drought is so hard, you couldn't imagine it unless you saw it first hand. Suicide in farmers is up too. They are having to shoot their animals because they cannot feed and water them and do not want them to suffer on. With no livestock they have no way to make a living. It's absolutely terrible and the government are not providing support for the farmers. They are however bringing in cheap imports and sending foreign aid so as you can imagine there is a lot of ill feeling in the country just now (outwith the cities).

But yes the point of this thread, as I understood it, was the methods of slaughter and the treatment of the horses up until that point. Neither of which are suitable let alone humane.


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## Northern (9 November 2019)

TPO said:



			Going totally off topic but in Aus there is a big polocrosse scene and that takes in a lot of flat racers.

The drought is so hard, you couldn't imagine it unless you saw it first hand. Suicide in farmers is up too. They are having to shoot their animals because they cannot feed and water them and do not want them to suffer on. With no livestock they have no way to make a living. It's absolutely terrible and the government are not providing support for the farmers. They are however bringing in cheap imports and sending foreign aid so as you can imagine there is a lot of ill feeling in the country just now (outwith the cities).

But yes the point of this thread, as I understood it, was the methods of slaughter and the treatment of the horses up until that point. Neither of which are suitable let alone humane.
		
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The polo industry also breed a lot of their own, lots of money in there too! I do know of a few who have ended up trying for polo, but they do get sold on if they aren't suitable too (usually through the saleyards). The drought is horrific at the moment, we did get some rain this spring where I am (more than last spring!), but the summer will be difficult. Add to that bushfires (70 out of control currently in my state) and with no water to fight them it's going to get tricky  

My issue with the report is that they blurred two separate issues and presented it to the wider general public, the majority of whom have no idea about how the industry works. One good thing about the drought is that people are thinking more before breeding stock, which will hopefully lead to less TBs being produced next season. It also means that broodmares are being sent through the sales as well, which is not ideal  Wish I could take another on.


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