# Heather Moffett Saddles V Freeform V Freemax?



## Kenzo (16 May 2011)

Quick question re Heather Moffett saddles as there is one on ebay at the moment but a 17.5 inch which seems pretty cheap with a buy it now option, are they measured the same as a traditional tree'd saddle, because if so (I've heard some treeless saddles they come up larger than intended) so say if I my horse required a 16.5 inch or 17 inch in a normal tree'd size, would the 17.5 inch be too large in a treeless? (I'm 5'6 by the way, dress size 8-10)

What's the differences good or bad between the Freeform and Freemax treeless saddles?, are you better going for a high wither option if your horse has withers (even if there not high withers, just chunky medium sized ones)

I've emailed bettersaddles for some advice along with some photos of my horse to get some helpful suggestions as to which treeless saddle (if any) would be suitable for my horses shape (I know that's just a rough guide) but they have not got back to me, just wondered what other peoples experiences are for those that have tried either of the above but not on your flat withered rounded cob types. 

Any info, pictures, feedback would be really helpful.


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## cm2581 (16 May 2011)

Heather moffat does not work on narrow horses. The freeform and freemax should be a bit better as they have a wither iron to give structure to the front of the saddle. Even so, I think a front riser pad is still required with such a horse.


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## Kallibear (16 May 2011)

My friend has a heather moffett and has given up with it. They don't suit narrow horses due to the panel design. The half tree at at back is too flat so the edges hang off the side and only the very inside of the panel touches. The front is similar on a narrow horse and the gullet narrows and pinches inwards when the rider gets on. They work well for very wide flat horses, although the gullet channel at the back is far too narrow and pinches the spine. 

Freeform and freemax are basically identical in design, although the freeform is better quality material. They both need pads under them but work well on narrower horses. No treeless would suit sharkfin withers tho.


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## Kallibear (16 May 2011)

P.s word of warming about freemax saddles: the flaps on the GP jump version are VERY short!


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## Shysmum (16 May 2011)

Freeform are the original expensive make. I believe (before I get sued) that Freemax is a less well pedigreed version of them.... 

I have had a nightmare, as you may know , but if I could afford a HM I would go for it.  For my cob that is.  But DO look at the website to check it's suitable, ditto any other you're thinking of.  And also contact the seller and ask lots of questions too.

Good luck


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## Kenzo (16 May 2011)

Thanks for the advise.

He doesn't have a typical TB topline, I could comfortably ride bare back without any issues down below from a riders comfort point of view, but he does have what I'd call a medium but chunk withers


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## Kenzo (16 May 2011)

Meant to say chunky wither, replying from my phone, silly touch screen! lol

Which pads would you recommend to go with the freeform or freemax


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## Shysmum (16 May 2011)

from what I've seen, you will always get your money back with either a secondhand HM or Freeform. The sizing is very confusing, again, you need to go to the site to work out how they measure the sizes - even then they can vary. 

If I told you that some treeless saddles are measured via the underneath line, you can see how absurd it all is. What I do understand is that you need to buy a treeless saddle to fit you, as most of these things fit most horses, but not most people.  My advice - go for the HM !

God, I'll be able to take a degree in this before long 

ps, is it the dressage one you are looking at ?  Check out the completed listings, on there a few times, unsold.


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## hollyandivy123 (16 May 2011)

i think the heather moffet comes with changeable panels a flat on and a v shaped one depending if you have a flat back cob, also i think a 17.5 in the treeless will equate with a 17in treed

there are 2 models, the old one which has a silver stirrup bar, the seat on this one is a lot more open than the newer model which has a brass bar

hope this helps

ps i have one and we call in the DFS saddle, been on 10 mile ride etc,


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## Oberon (16 May 2011)

I have a Freeform that I did endurance with. After a break from riding I started again in a friend's HM Fhoenix - a beautiful saddle.

After riding it for a month I tried my old Freeform again - it felt wonderful in comparison! Much more stable for us and comfy.

I have done 300+ miles in it and it still looks great.

So my choice would be for the Freeform over the HM - but that is a personal choice for us.

I have no problems with the Freemax - as far as I know, the one of the main designers of the Freeform started up the Freemax (just like Solution Saddles did with the Ansur).

I plan to replace my odd looking Freeform with a more traditional looking Freemax when funds allow as we are doing more jumping now.

Another treeless brand which I am very fond of is Trekker - better known in Europe and rarely for sale second hand - they've brought out some traditional looking ones that are a very nice saddle.


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## Oberon (16 May 2011)

Also - my draft has withers and is short coupled.


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## MiJodsR2BlinkinTite (16 May 2011)

I've tried both the HM Vogue and the Phoenix, and if my memory serves me right the "normal" adult size in the HM saddles, is an 18", so you might find anything less than this a bit small.

They're nice saddles, but personally I found I needed the support of a treed saddle - I only did walk and trot but wasn't sure I'd have liked to have gone into canter and tried to sit one of my boy's bucks in it!!! Whereas with a treed you deffo feel you have more support.

I think the Freemax line are made in India? Fine if you're happy with that; otherwise avoid!

Haven't tried the Freemax. 

Bear in mind if buying treeless, that the new Barefoot saddles apparently are totally unrecognisable - totally unlike the old ones, so best bet is to buy on e-bay if you want the good old-fashioned Barefoot. 

I've just bought a new saddle from here www.thepainfreehorse.co.uk - can't recommend them highly enough. We bought the "Tor" saddle for my flat-backed cob, I'd given up trying to find something to fit.


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## Oberon (16 May 2011)

Freemax aren't made in India - they're made in Italy. It's a rumour started on the net.


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## Kenzo (16 May 2011)

Thanks Oberon that's really helpful, yes your horse is very similar build to my lad from the photo that is.

I won't be doing any jumping but I would like the flexibility of riding both long and a bit shorter.

Which size and model is yours and what pad do you use with it?


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## Oberon (16 May 2011)

It's a Freeform classic, 17.5 seat, 2007 model. I bought a Haf pad with it, but I prefer the Equitex, which can be used with any treeless. I would not recommend the stirrup leathers that came with it, I'd get a pair of closed t-bar ones from eBay. I also use a Flexigirth with it.


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## Oberon (16 May 2011)

Also, the 18 inch HM I had, I sold to a tiny, size 8 lady who uses it on her 14.2, skinny, Arab.

The Freeform is a standard base, or short base and the seats are changeable to suit you.


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## Tinypony (16 May 2011)

Kenzo said:



			Quick question re Heather Moffett saddles as there is one on ebay at the moment but a 17.5 inch which seems pretty cheap with a buy it now option, are they measured the same as a traditional tree'd saddle, because if so (I've heard some treeless saddles they come up larger than intended) so say if I my horse required a 16.5 inch or 17 inch in a normal tree'd size, would the 17.5 inch be too large in a treeless? (I'm 5'6 by the way, dress size 8-10)

What's the differences good or bad between the Freeform and Freemax treeless saddles?, are you better going for a high wither option if your horse has withers (even if there not high withers, just chunky medium sized ones)

I've emailed bettersaddles for some advice along with some photos of my horse to get some helpful suggestions as to which treeless saddle (if any) would be suitable for my horses shape (I know that's just a rough guide) but they have not got back to me, just wondered what other peoples experiences are for those that have tried either of the above but not on your flat withered rounded cob types. 

Any info, pictures, feedback would be really helpful. 

Click to expand...

Are you looking at the 17.5 inch HM saddle for £400?  That one is treed.  It's made on a medium tree.  They are very nice saddles, but I think would need to be conventionally fitted.

On the treeless saddles, I have a HM vogue and a Freeform classic.  I like them both for different reasons.  I like the position the Vogue puts me in, the Freeform is a great hacking saddle.  The stirrup leathers and attachment system are a pain though.


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## Shysmum (16 May 2011)

blimey, I didn't know some were tree'd   Well that's my degree in the gutter then


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## a kind of magic (16 May 2011)

I use Freemax saddles.  Admittedly it is the Freemax Western model but Oberon is right.  They are Italian leather made in Italy.  We have had very lengthly chats with the people at Freemax (we are an Italian family) and they were indeed started by one of the original people who designed the Freeform saddle.

My saddles I think are fab quality and are very comfortable.  I use a high quality western pad with my saddle and my horses are always comfortable in their backs.  It also looks very traditional.

I am going to be purchasing a Freemax Dressage for when I do english schooling as I have been very impressed so far with my other Freemax saddles. 

I loved them so much that we now sell them in our shop!


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## Tinypony (17 May 2011)

shysmum said:



			blimey, I didn't know some were tree'd   Well that's my degree in the gutter then 

Click to expand...

LOL!  Heather had done treed saddles in the past, and I think I heard she was doing them again.  That one on Ebay has serge panels, I'm not sure, you could ask Enlightened Equitation, but I think the ones with serge panels were made in collaboration with Kay Humphries?  Anyway, with the memory foam seat I reckon that saddle would be lush to ride in!  If I had some spare cash I'd be very tempted to risk buying it.


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## Kenzo (17 May 2011)

I can reply properly today as I'm back at my PC. 

Yes I was looking at the one on ebay at £400.00 but did someone say it's been re-listed a few times because it's not fetching enough, I thought it seemed cheap but still even at £400.00 if I'm not entirely sure if it will be the right size and if it's treed (didn't know HM saddles could be treed as well but then I'm not clued up on treeless saddles as some of you are) then I don't think it's worth the gamble bidding on it.

I've been looking at that many different ones I think I'm baffling myself to be honest.

Is the Freemax a cheaper version of the Freeform but equally as good when it comes to comfort and fit (providing you fit them correctly)?

Sorry for all the questions just trying to decide which one I'd like to look out for as I think I'd have to go down the second hand route so I need to keep a look out on ebay but I think I'm going to have to call upon you guys for a bit of help if I see something to make sure I looking at the correct size and to find out which pads/leathers and girth etc I'd need to buy to go with it.


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## Kallibear (17 May 2011)

Yep, HM has done quite a few standard tree'd saddles too (she keeps falling out with the makers)

Free max are just as good as freeform, just the leather's not quite as nice. 

Go for the size that suits you as the horses length is less important, although a very shortbacked pony won't be comfortable in a big saddle. At size 8-10 i'd go for a 16.5 or a 17 if your horse is short backed, although do bear in mind the flaps really are very short on the traditional looking jump GP saddle. Less of a problem for the hacking saddle and dressage saddle version.

The people who sell on ebay are happy to take the saddle back if it's not suitable.

Remember you will need a decent pad under it. Equitex pads are by far the best i've used.


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## Kenzo (17 May 2011)

Kallibear said:



			Yep, HM has done quite a few standard tree'd saddles too (she keeps falling out with the makers)

Free max are just as good as freeform, just the leather's not quite as nice. 

Go for the size that suits you as the horses length is less important, although a very shortbacked pony won't be comfortable in a big saddle. At size 8-10 i'd go for a 16.5 or a 17 if your horse is short backed, although do bear in mind the flaps really are very short on the traditional looking jump GP saddle. Less of a problem for the hacking saddle and dressage saddle version.

The people who sell on ebay are happy to take the saddle back if it's not suitable.

Remember you will need a decent pad under it. Equitex pads are by far the best i've used.
		
Click to expand...


Right I've just had a look on ebay again to see whats what and at what price ranges and looked at the Freeform, they seem to retail at around £1200.00 give or take (according to the Dream Team website) which is way out of my budget and Freemax is a hell of a lot cheaper if Im looking at the right ones, you can get a package at around £400.00 ish?

Apart from the quality of the leather, which you expect if the price is a lot cheaper (I can live with that) but is there any compromises else where, for example in the design/comfort for the horse, do they both have the same amount of built in pannel (padding/moulding) for spine clearance, for example is one more suited to your rolly polly types with a low wither or are they both suitable for my lads confo (providing a good pad is used) and any difference in the pressure (hopefully none) of where the stirrups come from? For those of you who have tested/used both makes that is, just seems such a huge difference in price which makes me a bit nervous as to whether it's as good if you see what I mean.

Is there a curved short girth that will also fit a freemax?

Once again sorry for all the questions  and thanks Kallibear for your help.think where getting somewhere  once I know in my head what I need to be looking for.

Its good to know however if its not suitable you can send it back but Id need to make sure Ive got all the right equipment to use with the saddle to ensure I get it right.


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## Kallibear (17 May 2011)

The freeform is a bit heavier and bulkier but that's due to the thicker, better quality leather. In terms of support and 'stiffness' of the saddle (the important factor in protecting the horses from the rider) they are very similar. I'd say the freemax is actually better moulded for a more withery beasty. The freeform is more barrelshaped. 

The new traditional style freemaxs have nice gap at the back of the panels. The problem with some was if they were on the long side for the horses back then the base over the spine at the loins dug in.  The gap lets you away with a slightly longer panel. 

The girthing arrangement on the endurance/hacking models (the standard treeless style) are the same for both makes: the girth straps are at the bottom of the saddle flap to spread the pressure over the whole saddle. In the traditional looking freemax (i've not seen the new freeform traditional style ones) the girth is attached to a large triangular piece of velcro that runs over pretty much whole length of the saddle, distributing pressure are much as poss. Not as good as the endurance arrangement but as good as you'll get for the style. I never have the girth tight enough that it'll be an issue. 

The stirrup arrangement is the same for both: a strip of velcro. It's the biggest problem with all treeless saddles, how to distribute the stirrup pressure. There will be more pressure under that point when you stand in your stirrups but the base in there saddles are ridged enough to distribute pressure enough not to cause discomfort. It's the only reason I wouldn't use one for a lot of XC or hunting. 

To get up and running all you need is the saddle and a pad, which the sellers on ebay have too. A normal dressage girth and the normal Tbar dressage stirrup are fine for a treeless: i'm sure you could beg borrow or steal them off someone for a trial if you've not already got. Once you've decided you can think about a better/different pad and girth.


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## Kallibear (17 May 2011)

I can't reply to PM's on phone, grr. 

Yep, that style suits most things and looks traditional enough once your onboard to show at local level. 

Email and ask them about baselength, and flap length. They're fairly generous in seat size so it's base and flap length that will dictate size (although they'll tell you otherwise). It may well be the same base with a different seat size on top but if not i'd go for the shortest base length with and acceptable flap length. The flaps on those saddles are def better proportion than the jump saddles.  

Keep an eye on ebay too as they sell them on there far cheaper.


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## rwebb (18 August 2011)

A Kind of Magic - Are you allowed to tell us where your shop is?


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