# Would you hunt a 4 year old?



## viola (26 August 2007)

Hi, looking for people's opinions on taking a 4 year old (being aimed at SJ/eventing) out hunting. Would you or wouldn't you?
Are there any hunts that are especially popular among young event horses producers?
Thank you (please bear in mind I don't know much about hunting!).


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## HannahLovett421 (26 August 2007)

Am taking mine cubbing next month, not too sure about if I would take her out with the main field though!

Saying that, she is exceptionally quiet, altho admittadly not very brave there is no obligation to jump anything, shes used to hacking in company and jumping anything jumpable on hacks, and I trust her to pieces. It depends if you have faith that your horse could handle it I suppose


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## severnmiles (26 August 2007)

Definitely!  Alot of 4y.o's go out prior to the following seasons eventing.


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## Starbucks (26 August 2007)

Yea I would.  I'd take it quite steady though as it's easy to have accidents on babies!!


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## viola (26 August 2007)

Thank you for your replies. I am quite tempted to take her as would like her to discover her engine :smirk: but I would hate her to be fraightened or have an accident.
The horse is my training project and is stabled near High Wycombe - any 'young horse friendly' hunts there?


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## severnmiles (26 August 2007)

Just pick and choose your fences (there's nearly always a way around) and maybe go midweek as it should be quieter.  Have fun...oh and post piccies!


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## viola (26 August 2007)

I will investigate  It might be a little problem with avoiding the jumps as she is quite keen :smirk:

Some piccies here (not from hunting though as never been!):
http://freelanceinstructorsdiary.blogspot.com/2007/08/my-first-xc-schooling-with-young.html


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## Starbucks (26 August 2007)

What breed is she??  In my experience it's normally the rider who gets injured/frightened not the horse!

Good thing with hunting is you can do as little or as much as you want, so no pressure!

I'm a way from you in Yorkshire so not much help on the hunt front.


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## viola (26 August 2007)

She's a KWPN. Hmm, I might try to go out on a friend's horse first to see how it goes before taking the young lady out. I am also going to take her for a fast ish sponsored ride with 60 fences which should give me more of an idea how she behaves in a crowd...


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## henryhorn (26 August 2007)

Actually we wouldn't.. mostly because we don't ever alow our horses to pull, and out hunting it's something that is hard for them not to do when everyone is whizzing along and you are in a lot of riders.
We do lively hacking instead, ie logs in the woods, fast flowing river crossings, banks, steep slopes etc. 
It's also very noticeable which horses are born here and which have been born in a flat field with no obstacles. Our lot tend to be brave and attempt most things, the outsiders dither and worry about the slightest rough ground or slope until they become used to them. 
I'm someone who hunted a lot years ago, mostly P to P'ers, but our youngsters never go as we  go for fun, and using one of the oldies means you aren't worried about them hurting themselves or starting to pull...
If you have no decent places to practice then perhaps go, but cubbing and on a very quiet day...


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## viola (26 August 2007)

Thank you, yes I am concerned about her running blind behind others!
I have lovely hilly countryside to hack her around but no jumping opportunties as such. 
I will look into cubbing!


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## Sarah_Jane (26 August 2007)

I think hunting is one of the best eductaions providing you have a resonable hunting coutry I would always look to educate this way. It gives confidence and teaches them to think for themselves in a variety of going and over differennt terrain and fences.


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## Starbucks (26 August 2007)

Why is it such a bad thing if they pull (hunting anyway)??


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## severnmiles (26 August 2007)

Why is it bad if they pull xc?  I don't know many top horses who don't take a hold xc...

She wants to the horse to find its engine therefore she wants it to find a gallop...never galloped a pointer or Adv eventer who hasn't pulled...


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## Starbucks (26 August 2007)

Thats just what I was thinking.. if they are keen, and wanting to get on with the job, surely they have to pull, even if they are not overly strong??


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## henryhorn (26 August 2007)

Ah but the pulling once learned transmits to other parts of the schooling too!
We take great care to teach the youngsters to listen to your weight when stopping, and a four year old is very much still at the educating level. 
If you go out and try to make an exited youngster go sensibly in company it can teach them to pull, and using the correct aids can be impossible, sometimes there is no option but to pull and hard.. (believe me I know after qualifying those horses who were big and strong)
Don't get me wrong, I'm not against hunting baby horses, but why do it unless you need to teach them to find a fifth leg, especially when you need them to be really responsive for other disciplines later on?
If you can educate them by introducing them to varied terrain and company why risk having a four year old who has discovered it can lean on you if it wants to? 
This sounds a bit precious I admit, but when you think how much work goes into producing a horse that is on the end of the rein but not actually pulling, it seems madness to do exactly the opposite..
I do think it has benefits for some horses, ones who are nappy, ones who are slightly nervous etc, and if you have a good hunt you can tag along at the back and insist on manners. Standing in company is excellent training too. 
You only have to look at the variety of bits and gadgets around at competitions to see that lots of horses pull.. not the forwardness into a fence which feels great, but the snatching/head tossing hard leaning type of pulling, which does make for uncomfortable riding.
Jacques went jumping XC today for the first time in his life; he was on the bridle but at no time did he pull.. When she needed to slow him down a half halt was enough, no doubt he may eventually turn into a bolshy hard pulling type, but not if we can help it!!!
Now our old stallion and Jonty will pull your arms out if they can, and yes, both have hunted many many times..


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## Starbucks (26 August 2007)

I kind of get what you are saying, but still think the benefits out weigh the bad bits.




			but why do it unless you need to teach them to find a fifth leg
		
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surely thats what everyone wants from an event horse??  Sure it's great to do a great dressage test and be a fab show jumper, but most eventer's are in to the XC and want a fast, bold but most of all SAFE XC horse??

My horse is quite strong, but we manage in a snaffle, grackle and loose running martingale for everything.... not sure if he would be any different if his main job wasn't hunting?


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## henryhorn (26 August 2007)

I know what you mean, but there are ways of teaching them without taking them hunting too. 
Monty was the most fab Xc horse ever, bold,  and never balked at anything, but his sheer strength was a problem when you needed to check back. I doubt we could have held him out hunting, so we never dared take him.
I think I'll probably take the middle view on this in the end, by all means hunt the four year old if you haven't any other way of teaching it how to be nimble, but if like ours they grow up on really difficult terrain they don't need to go for that sort of experience.
i think we are both right... :grin:


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## viola (26 August 2007)

It is very interesting to read all the above!
The way I like producing young horses is how I would like them ride personally i.e. I want them stop from the lightest of rein aid and go from lightest of leg - that's of course is just a summary. However, my background is in show jumping not eventing. The horse I am working with at the moment, and the horse in question, is more of an eventing type hence she will be aimed at BYEH and possibly PAVO classes next year. 
The reason I wanted opinions is that I am told from many angles that hunting 'makes' bold horses and I guess when I am riding XC I want the horse to be bold.
However, I would hate to have to tag on the reins and I hate such a picture regardless whether it's out on a field, SJ arena or anywhere else.
The mare in question is coming along very nicely, I had her out XC schooling a couple of weeks ago and she jumped everything. I wouldn't say she absolutely needed to go hunting and I would certainly not want to go with any non-stop-galloping hunt. She is a 16.2hh skinny youngster, backed a few months ago' works on a light contact, gentle outline and never pulls (I galloped her in a stubble field and she was a piece of cake to stop in the end).
I am now looking for ways to make sure she has enough running, that she dicovers the joy of jumping from speed and the joy of going across country.
I will be lurking here to see if any more voices appear!


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## Starbucks (26 August 2007)

OK, we'll both be right! :grin:

My main thing is hunting, and if my horses will do a bit of eventing and show jumping in the summer then thats a bonus, so I guess I've got a different view to you. 

I will say, however, that both my horse and my mums have only ever hunted + a bit of show jumping (i.e. hardly any schooling) but somehow they can both manage to do a decent dressage test!  So, I do think hunting teaches them a lot RE balance etc. as well as being bold.


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## KatB (26 August 2007)

A horse will only learn to pull if it has something to pull against. My horse is strong out hunting, because he wants to follow the "herd" and gets very forward, but this has never transmitted to our XC because I never take hold on a XC course, and therefore he never has anything to pull against. I also probably "overbit" him hunting so he learns pulling is uncomfortable, and he learns to release any pressure put on him by not pulling. Granted I dont take him hunting often, as he is very excitable and likely to "bounce" and just be a bit manic, and if I took him regularly, he prob would be a nightmare, and would learn his own strength and how he can use it, but the few times he has been as a 4yr old I strongly believe have done him the world of good and I intend to hunt him again this season.  

He goes XC in either a full cheek snaffle or a nathe, so have no probs with him pulling XC.


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## viola (26 August 2007)

Hi KatB How did you introduce your boy to hunting? Did you take him cubbing/exercising hounds as mentioned above?


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## KatB (26 August 2007)

Hiya, I took him out on a bloodhounding exercise day. TBH (and this maybe controversial!) round here I prefer to take him out with the BH as the hunting is either flat and non jumping which isnt much good, and with too much wating around, or big hedge country which i wouldnt dare take a 4yr old too!! Least with  the BH it is a ready laid trail, so you know the fences will be safe and not too trappy, and you can let them bowl along a bit, but teh advantage of them jumpinga  variety of fences in different terrain. Took him hunting properly a few times and was a nightmare because he couldnt cope with the going then standing for ages! 

First time i took him in a snaffle, and had no control, so as i said previously, bitted himup after that, so he learnt that hauling me about wasnt acceptable. Luckily pulling never became a habit. He loves the blood hounds though and has never said no too anything, including crossing a river, jumping parts of BE courses and jumping off banks etc. It si just a more exciting version of XC schooling IMO!! 

SOudns like you have  a very promising young horse there though, good luck with her!


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## Starbucks (26 August 2007)

You make the Readyfield sound so tame Kat! :grin:


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## viola (26 August 2007)

It si just a more exciting version of XC schooling IMO!!
		
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That was the starting point of me pondering on taking her 

If you want to have a look at her - http://freelanceinstructorsdiary.blogspot.com/ (on the left hand side is a title 'Horses in Training', click on 'Wilastra'. 
I am indeed very excited to have a chance to train her and am enjoying every minute


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## KatB (26 August 2007)

Lol!! i love the readyfield, tehy are tame compared to how they use to be, i cant see what the fuss is about personally!!  :grin:


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## KatB (26 August 2007)

Will have a look....


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## Starbucks (26 August 2007)

I haven't been for a long time now, my pop uses to be a reg, do they still go from great dalby???


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## eventing_chick (26 August 2007)

Yes but i wouldn't keep them out too long.


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## k9h (26 August 2007)

Yes many a time. If you know what you are doing then it wont harn them at allin fact do more good. Use to buy youngsters from Ireland was told they were 4 they had already done a season over there, when got them over here &amp; vet looked they had just turned 3!! They never pulled but where great on there legs!!. Also supplied a titled 'Lady' she was sole Master of pack as well as hunt horses she would not ride anything younger than 6yrs, Striker was the perfect horse for her even at 4yrs &amp; she rode him for 2 years thinking he was 6!! Till he was supposed 8 &amp; we informed he that he was in fact 6!!
Also there was no way her horses were aloud to pull (they were &amp; are know as push buttons, one is an intermediate eventer!) as she weighs about 6stone wet through!!

It all depends on the individual horse &amp; rider being able to assess the situation &amp; know what is best for the horse.
You can always go &amp; if not right you go home, nothing says you have to fight &amp; stay till the end!!


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## eventer28 (29 August 2007)

Yes hunted my 4yo a few times last year.. made her a bit daft but she found out that she could do an extented trot..


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## RunToEarth (29 August 2007)

Hey, think I have been put forwards to take on of R's 4yos out. Doesnt bother me, I took on out with B&amp;BM last year, its just choosing the meets carefully.


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## tigers_eye (31 August 2007)

The Vale of Aylesbury, Garth and South Berks (yes, that's one hunt! and I think I remembered all their name) are probably your local and it's a nice hunt, nothing too big or scary, fairly small fields (apart from the highlight days of course) and certainly cheaper than many of the surrounding hunts. Might see you out as taking both of mine out again this year precisely because I want both of them to pull a bit more!


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