# Giving cocaine to horses?



## typekitty (28 December 2012)

Longish article with a video on the New York Times about drugs in horse sport. Good that they're giving time to this sort of thing.

Have to say, I've never heard of giving a horse cocaine? 

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/28/u...gs-in-show-ring.html?emc=tnt&tntemail1=y&_r=0


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## Tonks (28 December 2012)

Absolutely disguisting behaviour. There are real welfare concerns here that need addressing.

I know this is an American investigation [and I know nothing of showing here in this country,] but I have my suspicions that it may occur here in the UK ?????

I feel this investigation is the tip of the iceberg - needs more exposure.


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## cefyl (28 December 2012)

Trainers D Wayne Lucas and Laz Barrera in the USA ran horses in the late 1980's that allegedly were found to have cocaine in urine samples, there were 2 or 3 other trainers also charged (who had connections to these two) at the time.  They always denied it.  And charges were later dropped.


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## Gingerwitch (28 December 2012)

Stupid question.... what affect would cocaine have to a horse?


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## alphanumeric (28 December 2012)

Tonks said:



			Absolutely disguisting behaviour. There are real welfare concerns here that need addressing.

I know this is an American investigation [and I know nothing of showing here in this country,] but I have my suspicions that it may occur here in the UK ?????

I feel this investigation is the tip of the iceberg - needs more exposure.
		
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So if you have no knowledge of showing in this country, why do you suspect that these practises may occur here in the UK?


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## SusannaF (29 December 2012)

That very sad NYT story reminded me of the court case over one of Romney's dressage horses:

How on earth do you sell/buy a performance horse for a six-figure sum when it needs such an insane amount of drugs in its system to function?

http://susannaforrest.wordpress.com/2012/06/23/the-romneys-their-dancing-horses-and-a-fraud-trial/


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## Tonks (29 December 2012)

alphanumeric said:



			So if you have no knowledge of showing in this country, why do you suspect that these practises may occur here in the UK?
		
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Due to sociological dynamics.


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## alphanumeric (29 December 2012)

Tonks said:



			Due to sociological dynamics.
		
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Such as?

From everything I have read, problems with drugs in equestrian sport are far more widespread in the USA (in no small part because much more is legal there than here).  

Showing societies in the UK run dope tests at their major championships (such as BSPS Champs, BSHA Nat Champs, Hunter Show, RIHS and HOYS) as well as other affiliated shows.  Certainly, having been involved in professional showing in this country for over 10 years, I have NEVER seen or heard of anyone turn up with a lorry load of horses and a schedule for injecting drugs into them during competition.  

That is not to say showing here does not have it's problems and there aren't people doing nasty stuff, but I can honestly say that I have never seen anything like what is described in that article going on at any of the top shows here.  I doubt that you would see everyone at shows up at stupid o'clock working their horses in if they were injecting them to save doing said work!


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## prosefullstop (30 December 2012)

I am not involved in showing, nor do I currently own a horse, but I moved to the US ten years ago and have spectated at some of the big Hunter/Jumper shows on the East Coast. It's apparent to me that there is major doping going on in the hunter rings. The prize money is astronomical. The HITS show, for example, has a 75K first prize for the "Hunter Prix" which is a class over three-foot fences.


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## Orangehorse (30 December 2012)

Whereas if you win a class at Royal Windsor there is about a £25 prize.


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## SueD (30 December 2012)

Shocking. Can't afford cocaine for myself let alone an animal!

Suggest the economics involved regarding prize money in the UK may make this a non-runner here although I don't doubt that there are people out there somewhere sticking lumps of ginger up a horses arse for whatever reason


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## jaquelin (30 December 2012)

Much more likely in US: a lot more use of drugs in horse-racing ( legal& illegal) & this filters down to all equestrian sports. Individuals & trainers are accustomed to injecting horses in US, not so much in UK. IMO (& I am an American) US is a very drug-ridden culture - people like to solve all their problems with pills. Drug companies market products directly to consumers who go to doctors & ask for drugs by name. 
I am not a huge fan of the UK showing scene, but even the most cut-throat competitors here would be unlikely to do what is commonly accepted in US.

I always get asked why I live here rather than US, but there are a lot more significant problems there ( health service, public transport, guns, drugs) that don't make up for weather!


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## kerilli (30 December 2012)

I heard many years ago about cocaine being given to horses. apparently they metabolise it differently to humans so would not need 10x the dose a human would, they don't need a lot, I was told. Allegedly it was used on top-end SJers to make them braver in the ring. 
This kind of abuse is shameful and disgusting, but unfortunately wherever there is big prize money and kudos at stake, some people will do despicable things for it. 
Poor horses.


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## bubbilygum (30 December 2012)

prosefullstop said:



			The prize money is astronomical. The HITS show, for example, has a 75K first prize for the "Hunter Prix" which is a class over three-foot fences.
		
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!!! That's a huge amount of money!


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## Gingerwitch (30 December 2012)

Sorry - another stupid question..... do the horses get addicted to it ? do they then get withdrawal symptoms ?


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## alphanumeric (30 December 2012)

Orangehorse said:



			Whereas if you win a class at Royal Windsor there is about a £25 prize.
		
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Quite!  Not to mention the fact that going Supreme at HOYS is only worth £1000 - which doesn't even cover the costs of running said horse at shows throughout the year...

I love the idea of getting $75k for doing a 3ft workers class!!!


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## typekitty (30 December 2012)

SueD said:



			Shocking. Can't afford cocaine for myself let alone an animal!
		
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Brilliant.

Agree about the prize money! I remember in Australia, first place barely covered the expense of actually getting to the event in the first place.


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## sam_m (31 December 2012)

Orangehorse said:



			Whereas if you win a class at Royal Windsor there is about a £25 prize.
		
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I didn't even get £25 when I won my class and went Champion at Royal Windsor, not fussed as my rosettes both still have pride of place on my wall nearly 10 years later!


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## prosefullstop (2 January 2013)

bubbilygum said:



!!! That's a huge amount of money!
		
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Isn't it just? And the Hunter Derbies tend to be even more lucrative. Jumps are about four feet in height for those.

First time I watched the hunter classes at the Hampton Classic, I had to ask a photographer to explain to me what the hell was going on. Why were the horses lolling around the course?Why the prevalence of standing martingales? And why so many plaits?! I'm still none the wiser about most aspects of hunter competitions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaKaLwvIOCg


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## s4sugar (3 January 2013)

Who else watched that video muttering "****** sit up!"


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## siennamiller (3 January 2013)

I actually watched it thinking the horse is stunning and I want it, that is was very nicely ridden, I don't think it matters that the jockey is in the forward position, that is how nick skelton rides isn't it? That course looks like SO much fun.


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## amandap (3 January 2013)

Tonks said:



			Absolutely disguisting behaviour. There are real welfare concerns here that need addressing.

I know this is an American investigation [and I know nothing of showing here in this country,] but I have my suspicions that it may occur here in the UK ?????

I feel this investigation is the tip of the iceberg - needs more exposure.
		
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I agree. 

I couldn't believe my eyes when I first read about modecate being used and I'm no longer surprized by anything the showing world get up to I'm very, very sorry to say. It reflects on those who do the best for their horses of which there are many.


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## kerilli (3 January 2013)

Crimbowitch said:



			Sorry - another stupid question..... do the horses get addicted to it ? do they then get withdrawal symptoms ?
		
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I was given to believe so, by the person who told me about it.


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## Kiribati_uk (3 January 2013)

kerilli said:



			I heard many years ago about cocaine being given to horses. apparently they metabolise it differently to humans so would not need 10x the dose a human would, they don't need a lot, I was told. Allegedly it was used on top-end SJers to make them braver in the ring. 
This kind of abuse is shameful and disgusting, but unfortunately wherever there is big prize money and kudos at stake, some people will do despicable things for it. 
Poor horses.
		
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Spot on about the top end showjumpers.....I worked for a top level SJer in this country(few years ago) and OMG I was disgusted by the weird and wonderful drugs that they give to their horses.....oh and the  governing body turn a blind eye!!!!!!


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## amandap (3 January 2013)

Is it actually illegal to give cocaine and other class a drugs to animals? Is there a different law for animal use to human use? I'm assuming it isn't got on prescription.


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## abaddon_1974 (5 January 2013)

It is illegal to possess a class A drug so in order to administer it to an animal you would have to be in possession.
So yes it is illegal to give a horse a class A drug without looking at any animal welfare legislation.


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## jeeve (7 January 2013)

These are 12 year olds competing and the pony sounds like it was given a huge string of various drugs, no doubt the combination (possibly over a time), leaing to its death. I am so glad that my kids compete at a low level for fun, and are not exposed to this kind of thing.


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## amandap (7 January 2013)

abaddon_1974 said:



			It is illegal to possess a class A drug so in order to administer it to an animal you would have to be in possession.
So yes it is illegal to give a horse a class A drug without looking at any animal welfare legislation.
		
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That's what I suspected.

The report is very depressing and I know laws etc. are different in USA but no investigation was even done in that case.  

I find it chilling and so upsetting that horses are used/abused like this.


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## Richie (7 January 2013)

Cocaine is a stimulant.

Where there is gambling and prize money there will unscrupulous practices where the welfare of the horse is secondary to winning.

Cocaine possession is generally illegal although doctors are permitted to use it for controlling pain.

Novocaine is not a derivative anymore, but a synthetic chemical with a similar structure.

I think CocaCola originally contained cocaine and was sold as a tonic!


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