# Taunton abbatoir - not for the light hearted. Video footage



## VictoriaEDT (30 September 2007)

I have heard about this on the grapevine: 

1) Pregnant mare goes into abbatoir to be shot; film shows her being shot and when the mare is winched away to be butchered there is a second shot. Live foal is shot during butchery.

2)very ill chestnut mare is bought in to be shot, she is lying on the yard in agony. The abbatoir leaves her as they are not ready to butcher her. They are not allowed to use her for meat unless she is shot and butchered right away so they wait and leave her in agony until the butchery is ready for her.



http://tauntonanimalrights.wordpress.com/2007/09/

Look on this site as there is much more to it but I WARN YOU IT IS NOT FOR THE LIGHT HEARTED. The only way to get something done about this is to make people aware, so sorry if it upsets you.


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## Skhosu (30 September 2007)

tbh, I didn't hear the second shot as a shot, more as a bang, impossible to tell tbh I think on that score.
Re: the injured mare, I'm not sure what to think


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## VictoriaEDT (30 September 2007)

No your right there is no proof that there is a foal that is shot and I should have put that but it is quite clear that the mare was in very in late stages of pregnancy and I know from work experience at an abbatoir that they are hung and butchered straight away  = finding a live foal inside.


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## WishfulThinker (1 October 2007)

Unfortunately if you sell your horse at an auction - as some of those may have been - you cannot guarantee where it will end up.  The men that were shown - other than the one with the gun - all seemed that if you met them at a sale they would not ring alarm bells. 
I have not fully made up my mine about horse slaughter, but if there are 5000 animals each year, presuming they are healthy what are we to do with these animals?  If an owner cannot look after it and it wont sell, and the charities are all full where does it go then? Unfortunately charities can only do so much, and people circumstances can change VERY quickly and they have to assess their options.  

I know it is distressing footage, but those horses seemed healthy - which is surely good if they are going for meat - calm and well handled. 

But like I said, I haven't fully made up my mind so those are just my observations so far.


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## smokeybabes (1 October 2007)

Its not really the abbatoirs fault that a pregnant mare was sent to them.
Also with the chestnut, not their fault it was sent to them like that. 7 mniutes isn't that long, especially if its been suffering like that for a while.
These video's get produced and the blame gets put on the abbatoir when really it should be on the people who transported that chestnut there in that state.
This video was posted in soap box a couple of weeks back and most people agreed how relaxed and calm the horses looked.
To me none of the horses looked stressed (they wouldn't be eating hay if they were stressed), they don't know whats going on and everything is carried out in a calm and professional manner. The horses are killed quickly.
When i watched the video i was worried what i was going to see, but after watching it i was quite pleased to see the horses were dealt with appropriately in a calm manner with no stress for the horses.
Remember this is animal aid who thinks everything is cruel!


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## foxviewstud (1 October 2007)

yes i agree that the horses looked calm and handled well but i cannot understand people that let their horses go there if there is nothing wrong with them, i personally couldnt do it, mayb im too soft but to me butchering a healthy horse is no better than butchering a dog, however i can understand sick, old, injured or dangerous horses going. but y pregnant mares that i do not understand.


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## reynold (1 October 2007)

at least these horses were slaughtered in this country and not shipped abroad for hours in a lorry to Italy or whatever


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## henryhorn (1 October 2007)

I have no problems with horses being slaughtered at the abbatoir provided the proper procedures are followed. When I took two horses to ****** it was a vastly different expeience to using the abbatoir in Cheshire. 
I don't think horses nearing their end should be allowed to view what's about to happen to them. (you wait in your box above the killing pen)
I don't think they should take two horses in at a time then kill them one after the other (I protested and they split them up)
I don't think their idle useless vet should stand by watching all this without saying a word.. (At this point I lost my temper and told him so..)
I think being slaughtered here is infinitley preferable to travelling abroad, but anyone who professes to care for their animals should give them a dignified end, and that means at home..
I speak as someone who has done it both ways..
Which would you prefer, someone to give you a peaceful injection or quick bullet in your own bedroom or go somewhere where death is evident, with scarey men with blue pipes to hit you and see the person in front killed first? 
There's no choice really is there..


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## dun_in (1 October 2007)

Far luckier than the American ones shipped to Mexico.

At risk of being unpopular it actually seemed quite well run and the horses seemed calmer and in better than expected condition (- I wonder why half of them went for meat - health/age/behaviour problems I would suspect for the little ponies rather than just children getting bored with them.  Otherwise they'd have a higher resale value).  As to the men chatting etc it's probably not actually a fun job to do and don't you ever talk to colleagues at work?

Assuming they didn't realise the mare was pregnant, then if they did shoot the foal then this may have been kinder than letting the foetus die some other way especialy if it was well developed.

In the case of the sick animal - who transported it and will anybody admit to being it's ex-owner and letting it die in this way, rather than being put down at home?  Money obviously.  They carry far more blame than the slaughterhouse in my view.  The owner may well have left it to die in prolonged agony anyway rather than pay a vet/make other arrangements.

Podge will definitely be put down at home, and after seeing this video hopefully by injection if I get the choice.  Fraid no individual cremation though - once you're dead you're dead, it's the treatment along the way that matters.

I never thought I'd defend a slaughter house in a million years.  But so long as people won't pay for what I consider proper disposal there will always be a need.

No hate mail please - I don't read it anyway.


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## jumpthemoon (1 October 2007)

Echo Reynold, at least they were slaughtered here and not subjected to hours and hours of transporting first. They all looked calm enough and didn't know what was coming. As for the injured horse, I had a horse who was suffering terrible twisted gut colic a few years ago - the vets left him in agony for 5 hours before they decided to pts - surgery was not possible. IMO this is far crueler (I would insist pts now)

I think this video is pretty good compared to the one from the mexican slaughter house. I think it's a shame that good horses have to go for slaughter, but if no-one wants them, what option is there?


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## reynold (1 October 2007)

I'll jump on the controversial bandwagon as well

I think that for many people they cannot cope with the final decision of putting any animal down - let alone having it done at home

so they abrogate their duty to their animal by sending it to an auction, knowing that they'll likely end up going for meat.

so ultimate anger goes to the original owners.

However - as the farmers will say - if you have livestock you will have deadstock. Similarly if you buy/own a pet - be it a goldfish or a horse or whatever inbetween - you have a duty to care for it and then give it a dignified end in minimal pain

I do wonder if some dogs and cats that are left roaming the streets are there because they had incurred vets fees that the owners were unwilling to pay any longer...

I'd rather have horsemeat eaten than import junkmeat from abroad
many horses in poor condition posted on here would tbh be better off dead


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## Shilasdair (1 October 2007)

I think the video shows a number of good points - the calm relaxed horses eating hay beforehand, the calm professional handling (and I believe this was a 'covert' video so that must be the norm) and the accurate dispatch of horses.
But I also think there are a number of related issues - who would send such a heavily pregnant mare to slaughter (and if the abbatoir did shoot a live foetus - it's good to finish it cleanly given the circumstances), and who would send the chestnut in such a state.
In defense of the 7 minutes it took to check the chestnut's ID and fetch the means to dispatch her, if my horse broke a leg, it would take my vets at least 20 mins, more like 40 mins to get to her to have her PTS.
Horse slaughter isn't a nice thing for us horselovers to see, but the alternative would be shipping meat horses to France...or lots of unwanted, neglected horses kept alive...
Not an easy answer, is there?
S


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## JM07 (1 October 2007)

this is SO last week.....


same sh1t, different day.....

that abbatoir is giving a good service to those who require it.

and the guy in the video is a horse owner himself...

point 1...this happens everyday if you'd care to look at cattle being slaughtered...and it wasn't proved she was pregnant

point 2...it may very well be the case that they "weren't ready" for her...as they normally only slaughter horses on a thursday..which need to of been previously booked in so they know whats what.

the line was obviously shut down, so proper procedures had to be adhered to...ie getting everything in order to dispatch her..with the licensed personnel to do the job.

ive also noticed there isn't ONE comment here about the owners of both these horses who would have taken them there..........


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## JM07 (1 October 2007)

ignore last sentence...S above has


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## dieseldog (1 October 2007)

I've taken my horse to these people, although they were based in Bristol at the time.  They were very professional and the horse didn't have a clue what was going on.


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## Donkeymad (1 October 2007)

I can see nothing wrong with that slaughter house. they all look relaxed, are handled nicely. Does anyone watching know why each animal has been sent there? maybe they have a terminal illness, maybe they are dangerous. Was that mare pregnant or something else. Seven minutes, that's not long.
It's all emotional blackmail.


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## foxviewstud (1 October 2007)

the slaughter house itself is very good but the fact that some owners could send perfectly good animals to slaughter i cant understand, i would rather pay out the money to have mine pts at home than have the money for their meat. but i can understand that some people cannot do it. def for not shipping out live horses as that is so much worse, and i know many people that have taken their horses up there but these were either very old and ill or very dangerous to both themselves and others around them.


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## __Annie__ (1 October 2007)

I totally agree with HenryHorns thoughts.


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## Sooty (1 October 2007)

Anyone who cannot face up to the fact that horses die, should not be an owner. It makes me absolutely furious that people try to undermine companies such as this, who provide an efficient and painless end to a horse's life. These are the woolly minded do-gooders who would rather wave a horse off on a lorry to the continent than the certain future of a dignified exit. The same people who probably think racing is a grest sport, yet have no idea of the amouht of wastage produced every year which is eaten in France. Horses die, and if they are lucky, they die at the hands of an expert.


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## wizoz (1 October 2007)

God it's quick! Actually, watching it made me feel sick 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 Hate the fact that death comes to us all in the end, I guess.

It's the breeders of racehorses that pi55 me off, far too many are bred and surplus to requirement, then not many get passed on to do something else, hence excessive overstock and final destination.

Very sad but necessary.


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## meandmyself (1 October 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone who cannot face up to the fact that horses die, should not be an owner. It makes me absolutely furious that people try to undermine companies such as this, who provide an efficient and painless end to a horse's life. These are the woolly minded do-gooders who would rather wave a horse off on a lorry to the continent than the certain future of a dignified exit. The same people who probably think racing is a grest sport, yet have no idea of the amouht of wastage produced every year which is eaten in France. Horses die, and if they are lucky, they die at the hands of an expert. 

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree very much with this. 

IMO a lot of people aren't used to dealing with death, especially death at their hand (for example, phoning the vet to kill a horse). It makes them uncomfortable.


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## __Annie__ (1 October 2007)

OK, I've watched it 
Going from this footage IMO it is 100% better for the horse to be destroyed at this abbattoir with english speaking people  than to suffer live transportation to foreign countries .

The man delivered a swift death and I approve of the clearing up of bodily fluids before the next horse was admitted.

I'm slightly confused when some people rant on about Animal Aid, 
Why? Because Animal Aid appear to be putting the 'burden of guilt' onto the OWNER not the abbattoir.
This I agree with.
I too would put the guilt onto the owners/breeders shoulders 
	
	
		
		
	


	





ETS:this was a quick reply


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## merlinsquest (1 October 2007)

Makes you realise why we should not breed for sentiment doesnt it?????  Mares not good enough to ride but ok to breed from???

A necessary service, repeat whats been said above about calm and efficient though, but not easy watching.

when they are wriggling around after being shot, are they dead and its the nerves reacting or are they alive still???

Think I have just gone off the bullet when the time comes for my boy


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## Donkeymad (1 October 2007)

They are dead at that point, the instant they hit the ground


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## meandmyself (1 October 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
Makes you realise why we should not breed for sentiment doesnt it?????  Mares not good enough to ride but ok to breed from???

A necessary service, repeat whats been said above about calm and efficient though, but not easy watching.

when they are wriggling around after being shot, are they dead and its the nerves reacting or are they alive still???

Think I have just gone off the bullet when the time comes for my boy 
	
	
		
		
	


	





[/ QUOTE ]

They don't know anything at that point. It's just the brain/spine reacting. They can gasp and blink too, but they're already gone.


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## Spot_the_Risk (1 October 2007)

Had a companion horse PTS by bullet at our yard a month ago, Vet was fantastic, quiet and kind.  My friend had been holding the mare, feeding her carrots, and the Vet said to just step behind him, and then it was over.  The mare was 28, and looking old, not keeping her weight, still enjoying the sunshine but declining rapidly.  It was calm and dignified, she died in the field she had lived in for over a year, with people she knew, and with no premonition or fear.  I had no problem with her lying on the ground afterwards.  What I couldn't watch was her being winched into the truck to be taken away for incineration.


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## henryhorn (1 October 2007)

In my time I've probably taken 20 horses to the abattoir, when I was starting out I couldn't afford to turn away the 33p a lb they paid you, so it was something that had to be done.
The cheshire operation is very different to the one we're discussing. You arrived at a given time, walked in past horses calmly eating hay in pens to a full metal door and entered a wet room. You put the horse in stocks in the centre, gave the man the bucket of feed and as it put it's head in it was shot with a bolt. If they weren't instantly dead they did a very good imitation. he gave you back the headcollar and you left. When you were out of the area the whole floor opened up and was washed down after each horse.
I only ever knew one horse who sussed what was about to happen and he was very worried, after that I managed to afford to have them done at home.
When we moved here the horse I took had been diagnosed as a wobbler, we had bought it as a two year old and it seemed fine until broken. As a result it cost me money to keep it for two years so the thought of getting some back was the reason I chose the meatman. A friend had an old mare so I offered to take it with him. 
I suppose I expected the same respect and service I'd had in the past at the other place, but this really didn't happen.
I arrived dead on time but was kept waiting in a line behind two full boxes of young racehorses, this was how the animals in my box managed to see the killing pen.
I warned the chap unloading that he needed to keep the mare in sight of the gelding as he was young and might panic a bit, and handed her to him. he marched off out of sight round a corner and the gelding went ape.. He snapped the lead rope, dived under the partition at the front, I grabbed the pin out so it could open and he fell out and rolled down the ramp. At this point another bloke waded in at the horse on the floor with a bit of blue pipe...
The useless supervising vet stood and watched silently. 
I yelled to stop hitting him, he would get up if they just gave him a minute to get balanced due to his back problems, but they hit him until I shouted at the vet. 
Then they led both in together until I protested and dragged one back out. 
I waited until both were done, drove away and parked down the road where I sobbed my heart out.
Not because they were dead, but because I had let them down by taking them to such unfeeling bastards..
So for everyone who's had a good experience with these people, sorry, mine wasn't. I'm no bunny hugger as the above tells you, but I do feel we should show responsibility and respect at the end of an animal's life. 
I failed to give those two horses that and I will be forever ashamed. 
Since then we've probably had another 15 done by injection or by the hunt. 
Believe me there is no comparison, the only problem being it costs you money you don't earn it as you do when you take a horse to the abbatoir.
But in comparison it isn't a lot, £100 for the vet, a similar amount for the cremation. (you can't bury them according to the defra rules )
Don't we owe it to them to die in a familiar place?
Unless it was an emergency, mine now gently slip away in familiar surroundings with people they know and trust. 
I know so many horses aren't that lucky and so yes, abbatoirs must exist. But they should be run by people who also show respect to the animals they kill.
If they were all like the one I used to use it would be ok, but as I know to my cost, they aren't.....


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## VictoriaEDT (1 October 2007)

Well said HH, bought a tear to my eye.....and that doesnt happen often!!!!


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## Shilasdair (1 October 2007)

In the video, the horses are dead as soon as shot...the leg twitching and wriggling is just the nerve impulses firing off...but the horse is no longer aware...as it has no brain activity...
When you put them down by injection, it can have the same effects...and sometimes worse, as for some reason some horses can react strangely to the drugs.
And injection takes longer so has the potential to cause more suffering...if there are problems.
There are no easy solutions, as owners you just have to do what you think is best.  And it's the folk who breed all these excess horses from unrideable/lame/unsuitable mares you want to have a go at, not the slaughterhouse
S


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## dieseldog (1 October 2007)

HH I'm sorry if I am some kind of evil person for taking my horse to an abbatoir - actually I'm not.  You had a bad experience I had a good one, both with the same company.  When I took mine, like your Cheshire one you had an allocatted time.  I would take one there again.  When I thought Dolly was going to be PTS I walked around with their phone number in my purse for a week, I even phoned them up to make an appointment but like usual there was a long waiting list.

We had a horse shot on our farm and it was horrible, a far worse experience than Mr Potters.


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## henryhorn (1 October 2007)

No, of course you aren't evil for taking a horse to an abbattoir, read my post, I took a lot more than one!!
What I am saying in short is yes we need abbattoirs, that horses are pts here is infinitely preferable to going abroad; but that I truly feel it is kinder to have your horse pts in familiar surroundings. 
I've seen a lot of horses die and modern anaesthetics are so efficient when administered correctly the horse really doesn't know much about it. My vet sedates via a vein then simply gives an overdose. Some need more than one lot but all died peacefully without knowing a thing about it.
The hunt also were excellent, quick, kind and efficient.
I don't know why it all went so wrong the day I visited there, I wasn't expecting anything different to what had happened before, but it was. 
I think like many have said it's people breeding crap that really should be taken to task, you only have to go to the Dartmoor sales to see runty wild worm ridden foals who will take a lot of handling and still not grow above 12hh..
Thankfully the numbers have dwindled recently, but look around any sale and there are specimens who really should never have been born. 
A lot of the foals go straight to the meatman, which is sad to see.
I think all of us must do as we feel able to cope with, when any money I had went on feeding the remaining horses I felt justified in getting paid for the dead one's meat; now I prefer them to have an end without stress, which is why they die here.


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## Shilasdair (1 October 2007)

Victoria EDT
Did you do the EDS degree at Hartpury?
S


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## blueberry (1 October 2007)

The abbatoir has a professional and ethical responsiblity to know if a mare is heavily pregnant and  of course it is their fault if they butcher a foal. 
They should run under strict regulations and guidelines for circumstances such as this .

And seven minutes is seven minutes too long for any animal to suffer, where is your compassion? Well its already been suffering for a long time so seven more minutes is ok??
How unacceptable an attitude!!


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## blueberry (1 October 2007)

Well said 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 and good for you!!-a hard learning experience but an invaluable one to share with us on this forum. Thankyou.


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## Shilasdair (1 October 2007)

What should they do with a heavily pregnant mare...why do you think it is being sent to slaughter?  
What regulations and guidelines do you mean?
And as I said earlier, if any of mine broke a leg or became ill, it would take my vets the best part of half an hour to reach me (20 mins if I was REALLY lucky) to PTS....so 7 minutes isn't so bad...
Do you really want unwanted animals kept alive to suffer through neglect?
S


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## Weezy (1 October 2007)

So what was the abbatoir supposed to do with the pregnant mare?  Give her back?!

Jeez, seriously, threads like this make me wonder if I have a heart at all at times but I sleep well at night 
	
	
		
		
	


	





I do think people put far too much of a HUMAN spin on animals - so the chestnut had to live for 7 more minutes whilst things were put into place - sh!t happens, it isn't the abbatoirs fault that the horse was left to get to such a shocking state before it was delivered - what should they have done - given that one back too?!

I can understand why people want to give a sympathetic death to a horse that has served them well for years, because it makes them, the human, feel better.  But at the end of the day, I refute that a horse will watch a horse in front of it be shot and then KNOW it is next and its time has come 
	
	
		
		
	


	




  Usually, if a horse in that situation is panicking it is because of the handling it is receiving and the vibes it is getting from the humans around it, or a sharp shocking noise - THATS what makes them panic, not the horse hitting the ground.


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## blueberry (1 October 2007)

Regulations can state: abboitiors will not slaughter mares believed to be in foal!!

Regulations can state: Any horse visibly suffering will be given priority

There not difficult is it??

Of course the horse with the broken leg is an accident and the time waiting for the vet is unaviodable.

Leaving an already suffering animal to intentionally suffer further because some numpty has neglected it in the first place is intentional and the numpty who took it and the slaugterhouse who does not give it priority are both eqeally causing additional pain and suffering and are therefor to blame eqeally.

What happened to humane consideration.


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## meandmyself (2 October 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
The abbatoir has a professional and ethical responsiblity to know if a mare is heavily pregnant and  of course it is their fault if they butcher a foal. 
They should run under strict regulations and guidelines for circumstances such as this .

And seven minutes is seven minutes too long for any animal to suffer, where is your compassion? Well its already been suffering for a long time so seven more minutes is ok??
How unacceptable an attitude!! 

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't lay this on the staff; they treat all the hoses on that vid with repect. Blame the owner for shipping an injured horse there in the first place. 

If it was a closed day, the gun and ammo was likely locked up. There's no saying that the slaughterman was even on site. Seven minutes really isn't bad. 

There's no conclusive proof that the mare was even in foal, or that if she was that they shot the foal. What if it was for the best? Maybe the foal was deformed/injured/dying anyway.

BTW- it's Abattoir, not abbatoir


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## blueberry (2 October 2007)

mmm...is this thread about spellings-i think not!!

Anyway, as you are the spokesperson for ALL abattoirs, oh i mean..abboitoir 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 Then you can truly say that all horses are treated with respect, never hit or suffer?? 
You are a very all knowing , wise one arnt you.

My issue is with regualtions in respect of the two horses being discussed on this thread-its a suggestion.
Not an unsensible one i think.

Oh and i don't think i said all staff treat horses badly-its the same everywher, there is good and bad, as with everything. The good ones could teach the bad ones something about good practice.

Oh and i suppose if you ask the suffering horse about severn minutes, i am sure if it could speak it would shout out TOO LONG!!!!


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## Weezy (2 October 2007)

Thing is, this Animal Aid site is aimed at tugging on heart strings of people and that in itself is wrong - be rational, horses are PTS, period.  Better to be shot than live a life of pain and go downhill with pain and suffering because an owner thinks it is holding a horse's dignity - a horse doesn't give a flying fig about dignity, it just doesn't want to be in pain!  And who is not to say these horses that are *fit and healthy* were not dangerous?

The beginning of the film shows VERY relaxed horses - they are not scared, so I am at a loss as to why they show that bit.

Showing the horse winched up - so what - how else are you to dispose of half a ton of horse flesh from an area? 



A couple of statements bother me...

"It is an offence to transport animals in this condition" (said about the chestnut)

Errrr really?  So if a horse is injured and then transported to a vets hospital that is illegal?!

"he or she should be killed immediately"

Sure, but the correct procedures MUST be put into place first - its called HUMANE!  And the horse was hardly dumped on the yard in that condition - it would have walked off the lorry and then prob collapsed - and that could have been for any number of reasons - who is to say the owner didn't *rescue* the horse so it COULD be put out of its misery?!  And if anyone is upset about the horse being moved by a JCB then get real...we had to move almost 100 horses in this way and then dump them in a pit to be burnt because of AHS - its the only way to do it!

"Ponies like this one are used to teach children to ride and form an important part of the family - until the child wants a biger horse or gets bored with riding and then the pony is no longer needed"

Do I REALLY need to comment on that!!!  Lets pull at some heartstrings some more - show a pretty pony neighing 
	
	
		
		
	


	




Racehorses comment...does that REALLY look like a fit racehorse?  I think it is better to PTS than to pass on, really I do!


"Legislation states that heavily pregnant animals may not be transported. 

Well I know plenty of people who transport in foal mares to stud to foal - and I am pretty sure they are not breaking the law!

The casual manner of the killing of the pregnant horse is evident in the banter between the slaughterman and the horse handler. Watch the racing yesterday?

Oh FFS, are the slaughtermen supposed to shed a tear for each animal they put down?!  How ridiculous!

"The British are supposed to respect and admire horses but these owners wanted their pound of flesh"

And WHERE exactly are the owners statements backing that up?  Maybe they just wanted a swift and respectable end to their horses life!  And FFS, EVERYTHING HAS ITS END, whether that is by nature or by bullet.  I dare anyone to stand and tell me that it is *kinder* to let a horse get old and suffer and die than to be PTS in this manner - quick, painless and to the point.

Animal Aid ought to be ashamed of themselves


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## meandmyself (2 October 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
mmm...is this thread about spellings-i think not!!

Anyway, as you are the spokesperson for ALL abattoirs, oh i mean..abboitoir 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 Then you can truly say that all horses are treated with respect, never hit or suffer?? 
You are a very all knowing , wise one arnt you.

My issue is with regualtions in respect of the two horses being discussed on this thread-its a suggestion.
Not an unsensible one i think.

Oh and i don't think i said all staff treat horses badly-its the same everywher, there is good and bad, as with everything. The good ones could teach the bad ones something about good practice.

Oh and i suppose if you ask the suffering horse about severn minutes, i am sure if it could speak it would shout out TOO LONG!!!! 

[/ QUOTE ]

You're deliberately being obtuse now, arent you? What I said was simple- all the horses on that vid were treated with respect. Not a hard concept to grasp really. I didnt say anything about other slaughterhouses. Youre the one who brought those up. I agree that there is good and bad in everything. 

Honestly, Im not sure how they could have killed that horse any quicker. Like I said, theres no knowing if the slaughter man was even on site. It takes time to get the gun, ammo etc. In an ideal world, all horses would die peacefully in their sleep. Its not an ideal world. Sometimes we suffer. Thats just how things are.


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## blueberry (2 October 2007)

You keep deterring away from the main post and the main issue.

I am happy for you if your ethos and ethics on such a matter allows your conscience to let you sleep at night.Its easier to turn a blind eye on things but it takes a better person to stand up for what they believe in and make a difference in any way and not follow the 'sheep'.

Of course there is suffering everywhere but it should never become'acceptable' just because 'it happens'. Thats the lazy way out-we know that the people who work hard with the aim of ending/lessening suffering are the type of people who are prepared to go that extra mile and sadly most are too lazy to do that so they choose to ignore! 

I think its absolutely essential for any animal welfare organisations to bring awareness to people. They do it for the sake of the animals and lets be honest with the attitudes of some  , someone needs to! 

Why not encourage organisations such as animal aid-frankly i dont understand why they have recieved critisism??
how very odd!


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## wizoz (2 October 2007)

Hear hear HH, well bl00dy said. Those are my sentiments exactly. We recently had to put down our 32 year old, mum had him pts in his field, it was the nicest way possible. Then she had him taken away and cremated. We did have to let his stable companion out in the field with him, so he realised that he was no longer there. After he had been taken away, his companion called out for him a few times during the rest of the day but that was it.

I personally wouldn't use an abbatoir, but then i'm lucky enough not to have to.


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## Shilasdair (2 October 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
You keep deterring away from the main post and the main issue.

I am happy for you if your ethos and ethics on such a matter allows your conscience to let you sleep at night.Its easier to turn a blind eye on things but it takes a better person to stand up for what they believe in and make a difference in any way and not follow the 'sheep'.

Of course there is suffering everywhere but it should never become'acceptable' just because 'it happens'. Thats the lazy way out-we know that the people who work hard with the aim of ending/lessening suffering are the type of people who are prepared to go that extra mile and sadly most are too lazy to do that so they choose to ignore! 

I think its absolutely essential for any animal welfare organisations to bring awareness to people. They do it for the sake of the animals and lets be honest with the attitudes of some  , someone needs to! 

Why not encourage organisations such as animal aid-frankly i dont understand why they have recieved critisism??
how very odd! 

[/ QUOTE ]

'Deterring away'??? - speak English girl!  I have no idea what that is supposed to mean...
'It takes a better person' - you mean YOU, I presume.  I'm not usually this rude -  but how UP yourself can you be?!
You would be one of those who thinks it's cruel to put the ickle ponies to sleep so would leave them suffering a bitter and degenerating end in some windswept field somewhere, or even worse, ship them off to ILPH 
I find people like you, (who refuse to take responsibility so they can massage their 'I was too kind to put him/her down' ego) are the main problem with the equine industry.
If you can't see the problems that would be caused if UK slaughterhouses are closed, you only have to look at the USA example.
I do find your posts very difficult to read...please spell check before you post, thanks.
And no poisonous PM's please.
S


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## sleepingdragon10 (2 October 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
You keep deterring away from the main post and the main issue.

I am happy for you if your ethos and ethics on such a matter allows your conscience to let you sleep at night.Its easier to turn a blind eye on things but it takes a better person to stand up for what they believe in and make a difference in any way and not follow the 'sheep'.

Of course there is suffering everywhere but it should never become'acceptable' just because 'it happens'. Thats the lazy way out-we know that the people who work hard with the aim of ending/lessening suffering are the type of people who are prepared to go that extra mile and sadly most are too lazy to do that so they choose to ignore! 

I think its absolutely essential for any animal welfare organisations to bring awareness to people. They do it for the sake of the animals and lets be honest with the attitudes of some  , someone needs to! 

Why not encourage organisations such as animal aid-frankly i dont understand why they have recieved critisism??
how very odd! 

[/ QUOTE ]

WHAT!?!?! 
	
	
		
		
	


	





I really don't understand the point of your post. You've completely and utterly baffled me. 
What are we turning a blind eye to?...that horses end up at a slaughterhouse in the first place, or that they are shot, then their bodies disposed of at said slaughterhouse?

I saw nothing on that vid that made me feel anything other than relief that those horses were put down in a calm and efficient manner. And *IF* that mare was pregnant, what do you think they should have done with the foal other than what *MAY* have been it's fate?

What I did see, and hear, was a load of emotional blackmail aimed at those who haven't a clue what happens in the real world. I strongly believe that there should be more slaughterhouses, not less!!

I also feel that Henryhorn's experience was unacceptable and that in those circumstances yes, the people at the abbatoir were very definitely in the wrong.


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## cluedo (2 October 2007)

I also watched this video - like all of you.

What my gripe is, and one that no other brought up, is the use of the rifle. IT CANNOT BE ACCURATE IN 100% of the animals it kills. What if you get a flighty one in who is looking everywhere - it is balanced precariously.

I know from experience of these places that some do not die instantly and when they are hoisted through a small amount are found to be still alive - the shot only rendered them unconscious.

I have been to potters and found it professional and the slaughtermen very compassionate. They managed to have the horse I was with shot and headcollar off before it hit the floor. I could not fault them and all the horses were very relaxed. I was just heartbroken to watch the horses all line up ready for their turn as they follow the other. And I was upset to see what looked like otherwise very healthy and nice horses. There was a dun horse, all clipped out, that was just stunning. We tried to buy him but were told by the slaughtermen that most of these horses are here for a reason. They called the owner and asked would they sell and the answer was NO. So we went home.

I do not have a problem with slaughterhouses - PROVIDED they are humane and done quickly and humanely. I do have a very big problem with those being transported abroad alive.

It is obviously preferable to have them put down at home in familar surroundings but as Henry has said, they are often factors that mean that is either not possible, or not viable.


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## meandmyself (2 October 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
You keep deterring away from the main post and the main issue.

I am happy for you if your ethos and ethics on such a matter allows your conscience to let you sleep at night.Its easier to turn a blind eye on things but it takes a better person to stand up for what they believe in and make a difference in any way and not follow the 'sheep'.

Of course there is suffering everywhere but it should never become'acceptable' just because 'it happens'. Thats the lazy way out-we know that the people who work hard with the aim of ending/lessening suffering are the type of people who are prepared to go that extra mile and sadly most are too lazy to do that so they choose to ignore! 

I think its absolutely essential for any animal welfare organisations to bring awareness to people. They do it for the sake of the animals and lets be honest with the attitudes of some  , someone needs to! 

Why not encourage organisations such as animal aid-frankly i dont understand why they have recieved critisism??
how very odd! 

[/ QUOTE ]

I give up! You're a member of PETA too, aren't you? 

I prefer to support groups who actually do something for the good of animals, rather than posting biased vids to show their point of view. Quite frankly, I have no use for Animal Aid; they and PETA are ANIMAL RIGHTS GROUPS. They're not animal welfare groups.


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## severnmiles (2 October 2007)

Definitely don't have a problem with the first 2 mins of footage, they grey mare looked sweet though.  That all seems humane and fair.  The chestnut was only filmed for 7 minutes, if any of fine were fatally injured it would take a vet 30 mins and the huntsman 20 mins.....

Thats rubbish about ponies nolonger being needed, most parents would have to sell said pony to buy a bigger one for kids, personally don't know of anyone who would sell a perfectly healthy pony to Potters for a few hundred when they could get a couple of K for it, I wouldn't have the heart anyway.

We all know the wiggling of legs is nerves...cut a chickens head off and it will run around for a few mins...doesn't mean its still alive.  They've clearly been careful to sweep blood away, the horses waiting are fed and they're shot privately...this is how horse slaughter should be I think.  Have a look at the video in the post below...thats the horrid way of doing it.

Re. the pregnant mare, I think it should be against the rules to take them unless there is a bloomin good reason to.


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## severnmiles (2 October 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
What my gripe is, and one that no other brought up, is the use of the rifle. IT CANNOT BE ACCURATE IN 100% of the animals it kills. What if you get a flighty one in who is looking everywhere - it is balanced precariously. 

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't have a gripe, I think you'll find a high powered rifle will easily kill a horse 99.9% of the time.  Even pistols aren't 100% accurate.  The use of a pistol is very dangerous for the slaughterman too.


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## severnmiles (2 October 2007)

Exactly Weezy!

Should we ban Potters like USA has done and send them out to Europe on a gruelling journey for a far more inhumane death?

I wasn't keen on them shooting a pg mare unless there wasa  very good reason (which we don't know there wasn't) other than that I thought the video was fine.  Even in the room they were shot they didn't look stressed.


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## mcavity (2 October 2007)

i would prefer to watch that some poor horse starving in a field somewhere?


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## Amymay (2 October 2007)

Not sure what to think really.  Horses were dispatched cleanly, without suffering.

As for the injured horse - tragic.  But not sure what the abatoir could have done if they couldn't slaughter it immediately.

Like a lot of these things - these campaings are highly contentious and prey on people's emotions.

Sure a lot of things go on that shouldn't.  But for them to comment on the site about the casual manner in which the workers bantered whilst slaughering is incredibly niaive.  As long as they carry out their job efficiently, and with little stress to the animals (and they certainly didn't look stressed) how are they supposed to act???  

I was appalled at the post yesterday about the slaughter of the horses in Mexico.  But this just seems emotional clap trap to me.......


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## druid (2 October 2007)

Re: the injured mare - she doesn't look distressed, sits up and looks around and lies flat out again. No flailing, no panic


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## Dovorian (2 October 2007)

I agree, although it isn't something I want to think about, or be confronted by, I know it has to be done and this seems as good as it can get.  I'm not sure what VictoriaEDT wants here, is she saying that horses should be dispatched by lethal injection?    

Some horses may appear to be is excellent health, but their slaughter is necessary for unseen aliments and occasionally for other reasons.

I hope that when the time comes my horse will be handled by experts such as those shown in the film, from what was seen they handled the horses fairly and dispatched quickly and efficiently.

I hated watching but in a strange way I was not 'upset' as it seemed to proffer the 'best practice' face of the work.


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## blueberry (2 October 2007)

As a matter of interest i am commenting on the first original post, as simple as that!
Not confusing.
Everone has opinions and not everyone has to agree of course.

i don't think one abuse or mistreatment is better or worse then the other.
i hate with a passion the practise of live export of horses to their slaughter.
but eqeally i hate the avoidable suffering of any animal, be it in an abatoir or elsewhere (in this country or anywhere else)-we all have a responsiblity to our horses to ensure they end their days humanely.

it isnt a lot to ask for, lets be honest.

i am not an animal aid activist by any means, but anyone involved in the welfare of any animal is commendable.

Consideration is all it comes down to.

if horses are slaghtered humanely, i dont have a personal issue
 we had to have one of our mares PTS  a few years ago, she was a wonderful horse and owed us nothing.
She was euthanaised in her own stable after coming in from the field, it was the evening (she was photosensitive, so could not go out during daylight).
it was very qwuick and peasecful with an injection and i paid extra for her to be humanely disposed of-not for meat!!

yes it cost us extra-but worth every money.

we all have a duty as horse owners to have a considerate responsibilty.


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## Shilasdair (2 October 2007)

If Victoria EDT trained at Hartpury...then where did she think the body parts (including heads) for dissection came from?
S


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## blueberry (2 October 2007)

my spelling is appalling! i type too quick


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## blueberry (2 October 2007)

oh dear!! that spelling thing again.

Did i say slaughterhouses should close, there we go again-presuming 
	
	
		
		
	


	





never mind-it isnt always to think straight when worked up.

It bothers me none you or anybody being rude to me-i wouln't put the energy in sending nasty pm's-never done it yet so i aint gonna start now!


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## Shilasdair (2 October 2007)

Sorry, blueberry, I can't understand you.
Can you rephrase it (type slowly LOL!) and try again?
S


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## foxviewstud (2 October 2007)

i think more of this energy should be put into things like dog fighting and the slaughter of horses in mexico ect ect that is damn right cruel vicious and barbaric as these are causes more for concern than arguing about potters as like i have said in past posts and so many others they do their job well, its the wasteful owners that send perfectly good animals there but that will never change there will always be people that dont respect their horses and so cannot be bothered with them (not aimed at anyone on here!!!!!!!) but we do not know why any of these animals were there, but i hope for certain ones there was a very good reason ie preg mare!


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## blueberry (2 October 2007)

would you believe i went to grammar school 
	
	
		
		
	


	





no more rushing-my computer keeps crashing and its frustrating! 
	
	
		
		
	


	





if i can edit i will.


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## WishfulThinker (2 October 2007)

I am TERRIFIED of death, and the thought of my horse or me or anything dying, but I must say that video actually made me feel CALMER about it.  

I would rather a time served person do it than a vet who might miss or might get the dosage wrong for an injection. 

I would like to know though where people expect these horses to go if they do not go to slaughter?  Who will look after them?  Where do the extra farriers to do their feet come from, extra vets to take them on.  5000 is not a lot to go to slaughter, but 5000 a year NOT to go is a lot of extra horses. 

I still believe that you should be banned from breeding unless you have a license, and you must apply and give your reasons, and that if horses are to be stallions they must be graded like the top ones already are, and if they do not pass they MUST be castrated.  I know someone who's mare was unridable so she bred from her to have a foal that could be used, but she is lucky enough to have land to keep her and is more than happy to keep her as a pet - but in order to do that I had to buy her other one so she had the time/money/resources.


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## kizzywiz (8 October 2007)

I watched it through a couple of times, yes its unpleasant but the horses all seemed calm &amp; quiet, they had no idea what was going to happen.  The slaughtermen were also very calm with the horses, &amp; it was all very quick.  If the mare was pregnant, she was dead, so they would have had to dispatch the foal too, the injured one on the ground was obviously dealt with once the man was able to make the arrangements, perhaps he had no driver for the loading machine?  It is not what I would choose to do, but if OWNERS choose to send thier discarded horses &amp; ponies to market, unfortunately this is what is likely to happen.  The little grey pony &amp; the shiny black cob I found particularly upsetting, as they looked all fine &amp; dandy.  As for the men talking, wouldn't you want to keep cheerful in that awful depressing place??


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## GTs (8 October 2007)

Very impressed - the horses are handled properly, the place looks clean, I would not be opposed to my horse going there.


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## Tia (8 October 2007)

Thank you for that Victoria; it shows what has always been my experience of having horses shot; that they know nothing about what is happening because of the speed of it all.

The rifle seems like a far better option than a handgun to me and the slaughterman was certainly competent at doing his job swiftly and cleanly.  Thank goodness there are places like that where horses can go in the UK rather than be transported live to those god-awful European abattoirs.


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## keeperscottage (8 October 2007)

IM NOT KEEPERS COTTAGE, im her daughter. my mum wouldnt even watch that  video. i actually feel physically sick, im a hard person and live in a very rural area so im not some townie living in a disney like existence. im disgusted that people think this is the way to treat their horses .they live for us and that is how they are treated! how is every horse killed instantly? i highly doubt it, ' professionals' do make mistakes. if animal owners lined up their cats and dogs to be shot like that there would be an uproar. that chestnut horse was on hard concrete and laid there in distress and pain. how is this the way to treat horses? the pregnant mare was obviously distressed by going into that death room, a pregnant mare. i cant believe that we live in a modern world and such cruelty and callousness goes on. people are writing its luckier there not in America etc. but where ever it happens its disgusting, horses should not be treated like a piece of rubbish. Horses are far clever than what you think, they can sense what is going to happen. dont even say they look calm because there is only a couple of second footage on each horse who knows what went on before. It is impossible to say that every horse is given respect this is a 9minute piece of footage out of god knows how long. Animal aid are here to help animals but why is everyone who is an animal lover against them or making a joke of it? Im not wrapped up in cotton wool about the death of horses but I respect them. I had my old 12.2hh put down by injection; my mother had her old horse shot who she had for 22 years and she said never again, any other horse put down by injection, unless emergency (broken leg) both horses were  subsequently cremated. My pony went peaceful in familiar surroundings and definitely not transported. My mother says  generally people dont respect animals and this footage proves it. They are just commodities. I feel so strongly about this, I am a hunt member but I can not condone what goes on in this abattoir or any. I CAN cope with the final decision but this does not mean sending my much-loved horse to an abattoir. Horse are part of my life and family, I would not discard my family like this or any other pet I own.  I am just disgusted.


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## keeperscottage (8 October 2007)

just to add amy tryon is apparently a disgrace to the equine world. she made a mistake albeit a terrible mistake but how is everyone hating her, and not disgusted by that footage. my father in his capacity as an enviournmental health officer has worked in many abbatiors and found the slaughter men are predominantly sidistic and enjoy their work. bear that in mind!


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## keeperscottage (8 October 2007)

My daughter may be an A level English Student, but she can't spell "sadistic" - and her punctuation is crap!


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## JM07 (8 October 2007)

just re-read what you have posted...crap/bollox doesn't cover it.


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## keeperscottage (8 October 2007)

this isnt an adequate reponse , please can you elaborate. why do u have to be so basic? this is MY opinion.


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## JM07 (8 October 2007)

no need to elaborate....

horses come, horses go...

i'd rather mine go effieciently and profesionally then faff about either breeding from a totally substandard mare, keeping a crock alive because it made ME feel better or paying OTT fees to a vet to have it dispatched.

this abattoir has been, IMHO,WRONGLY vilified in public by "do-gooders"....

that place is, and always will be, a decent well run abattoir who offer a a good and needed service.

some folk who own horses/ponies shouldn't wear rose-coloured specs...wake up and smell the roses......
and no, before you jump on the "you aren't/cant be a horse lover" bandwaggon........i am...and have been for 40 years..but horses, to me personally, aren't pets....they are there to do a job..and that is why NOT ONE of my ponies have EVER had worms/been overweight/underweight/badly behaved/traffic shy/poor for the farrier/etc/etc...


they are there to do a job...or move on....


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## keeperscottage (8 October 2007)

Woah there, JM07, this is keeperscottage senior here, not my daughter! I've been around horses since 1963 and owned them since 1970. I work with horses on a professional basis and I feel capable of a serious, sensible, informed response. In my opinion, you buy/acquire a horse......they work for you, they do a job, but they ARE pets to the point that you care for them with respect and love, not cast them aside at whim, to end their days alone in a slaughterhouse. We hunt, but my daughter is a veggie. We are ARE NOT townie saddos!  We live in a VERY rural communituty where my neighbour laughed at my daughter when slowing down.whilst driving, for squirrels/rabbits/phesants in the road....well, so do I!! We're not on a mission to kill everything!

Do you have any pets yourself or are you so stone-hearted that nothing can penetrate your soul?


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## Weezy (8 October 2007)

Better a horse go to the abbatoir than left in a field because the owner cannot face putting them down.  I hold my hands up, I am a hard nosed bitch when it comes to dispensing with horses.  When you have had to watch almost 100 horses die a horrible death because they were not permitted to be PTS, all you want is to put them out of their misery.  I have always, and will continue to, opt for a bang rather than injection - injections are only done for the owners to feel better about themselves!  I have come to the conclusion that people are more bothered about horses being dispatched than, say, cows, because we give them a name and that, to some people, makes them more human - but they are not human, they are animals!


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## keeperscottage (8 October 2007)

My daughter, the author of the most recent keeperscottage posts, has now taken herself off to bed. However, I feel the same, if not stronger, than she does. You own a horse, you love it, and, assuming you retain it into old age, you dispatch it with  respect and love, ie, ON YOUR OWN PREMISES. When my daughter's elderly, much loved, 12.2hh became ill, we were liveried at a hunt yard. The owner, a cousin of the VERY senior Master said to me "Don't let her be taken away, will you?". As if we would! She was put down by lethal injection and died peacefully. I remember my vet saying, "it's time for the little mite to go". I didn't send her off to be shot! My own old hoerse I'd owned for 22 years was shot in her field, and then cremated. My biggest regret was not having her put down by lethal injection. We have two ex-point-to-pointers and,yes, I agree that there is indiscriminate breeding in the racing world. One of our TB mares is in foal......a foal which is much wanted and looked forward to!


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## dieseldog (8 October 2007)

What if you don't own your own premises?


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## keeperscottage (8 October 2007)

By "own premises" I refer to the place where the horse/pony is kept. In our case, at that time, a hunt yard.  Like my daughter has pointed out in her previous posts, we hunt, we're not "Disney" townies!


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## dieseldog (8 October 2007)

Well I keep my horse at livery and having it killed on site isn't an option what do you suggest I do?


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## keeperscottage (8 October 2007)

Never heard anything like it before!  What happens if there's an emergency, ie, horse breaks a leg.....?  Rather than have it put down on site, you have to transport it????????? Unbelievable!  What's behind their prohibition on euthanasia on site?


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## dieseldog (8 October 2007)

If it is an accident fair enough, but for a planned death no.  One got PTS on site by a vet and it was pretty horrific and then the dead body dumped in the middle of the yard until someone could pick it up with all the bodily fluids leaking everywhere.  After that they said no, never again.


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## keeperscottage (8 October 2007)

I've been around horses since 1963, a small child, and NEVER, EVER, have I heard anything like you've posted. Suggest you move yards pronto! Unbelievable, I'm speechless!

Incidentally, I note you state that having the horse put down was "pretty horrific".......do you think they die in their sleep in slaughterhouses?


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## dieseldog (9 October 2007)

No, when I took my mare there - the actual one in the video, she walked very calmly into the room and then dropped dead to the floor.   A far better experience than what the poor horse at the yard went thru.


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## keeperscottage (9 October 2007)

Sorry, but I cannot condone ANYONE for taking their horse to an abbatoir. My ex-husband's experiences in an official capacity, plus even a very hardened hunt member's views, mean I could never, ever, change my mind about slaughterhouses. You owe it to your horse to have it dispatched at home.  Never, ever have I heard anything like you refer to in your earlier post about not allowing horses to be put down on site! I'm off to  bed now - late by the standards of someone who has to get up early tomorrow to sort own horses out before going to work with yet more horses! I'm sure this discussion will rumble on.


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## Over2You (9 October 2007)

I will NEVER for the life of me know how any of you "horse lovers" would want a horse to end its life with an undignified bullet. When mine goes it'll be at home, in familiar surroundings with an overdose of euthanol or whatever it is vets use. If you or a relative were terminally ill, what would you prefer the ending to be? A projectile which can not be relied upon to be successful first time or a carefully measured dose of morphine?

I also can not believe how most of you thought that establishment provided a more humane service than those abroad. A lot of those unfortunate horses and ponies filmed were STILL alive after being shot. This was obvious as they 
were still thrashing about as they were being chained up.

These animals have given their all to humans and this is how we repay them. Disposing of them as if they were meaningless inanimate clapped out old bangers being sent to the scrappy.   

You make me sick!


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## GTs (9 October 2007)

As I said earlier I was very impressed with the video - the horses are fed while waiting in a shelter, everything was very calm and effiecent. Having seen many hores put down with injection, it is not prettier, just more of a feel good for the owner.

I wish we had slaughter houses like this in the US - I would happily take my horses there.


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## maroon_5 (9 October 2007)

"If you or a relative were terminally ill, what would you prefer the ending to be? A projectile which can not be relied upon to be successful first time or a carefully measured dose of morphine?"

The point is, they are not relatives. They are animals. In any case I would say the bullet. I agree with others on here, that footage is impressive, especially considering it is secretly filmed, it has been said already, the horses are calm, unsuspecting, and their death is quick. Also, the quote about children's ponies is absurd, and is really aimed at those people who personify their horses. Watching that video, it just seems like they are trying to pin these shocking statements on things that really aren't that horrific.


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## M_G (9 October 2007)

Thank you for that....it has made my mind up should my mare have to be PTS it will be by bullet...How quick and not at all messy. However she would go to the kennels not a slaughter house.

I have nothing against horse slaughter I would rather they were exported as carcases than live.


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## polyphonic (9 October 2007)

I dont own a horse so I am lucky enough to say that I wont have the dreadful situtation of making the choice, but aftyer watching the video, and seeing a few horses shot, I know which one i would choose.  I would rather them be shot at home, in a familiar space with current surroundings that feel safe but an abbatoir like the one shown in the picture looks on quite sympatheticaly.  I have seen 2 horses PTS by injection... neither of them were quick or slightly peaceful.  I wouldnt have a horse put down by injection to make myself feel better, I would want the kindest and swiftest way possible for them.  For me...how ever blunt it seems the bullet would win everytime


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## Shilasdair (9 October 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
I will NEVER for the life of me know how any of you "horse lovers" would want a horse to end its life with an undignified bullet. When mine goes it'll be at home, in familiar surroundings with an overdose of euthanol or whatever it is vets use. If you or a relative were terminally ill, what would you prefer the ending to be? A projectile which can not be relied upon to be successful first time or a carefully measured dose of morphine?

I also can not believe how most of you thought that establishment provided a more humane service than those abroad. A lot of those unfortunate horses and ponies filmed were STILL alive after being shot. This was obvious as they 
were still thrashing about as they were being chained up.

These animals have given their all to humans and this is how we repay them. Disposing of them as if they were meaningless inanimate clapped out old bangers being sent to the scrappy.   

You make me sick! 

[/ QUOTE ]

If you think those horses were still alive because they were still moving, then I can see why you're upset.
They weren't...it's just after death muscle movements....so don't let it worry you.  Once the brain stem is gone...they are gone.
And lethal injection can go horribly wrong....it's not a nicer way to go....in fact the brain dies more slowly...and it's the brain that feels pain, not the heart.
S


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## WelshRareBit (9 October 2007)

I am a self-confessed baby, and a terrible squeam. But that video helped me to stop being scared.

That was over so fantastically quickly, it was done in a calm manner and all the horses seemed content enough.

To the person who said the pregnant mare was clearly not happy to be in there - my horse does the same in his stable sometimes, it still doesnt mean she was in distress.

At the end of the day, like it or not horses have to be shot. Its a sad fact of life. If anyone has a problem with this they should become vigilate and start sorting out the dull people who churn out nag after nag that only ever ends up in this kind of situation.

After having my dog PTS I realised that having your pets humanely put down is the biggest, kindest gift you can give your animals. I wouldnt ever hesitiate to have my horse shot - whatever the circumstances, and if I needed to go to this place, I would.

Its a neccessary evil in my eyes and a job executed in perfect.  Quick, clean and unsentimental. Thats what you expect from a professional.


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## Alibear (9 October 2007)

Isn't the missed point that horses that end up here either 

a) are much loved and this is the right option for the owner in the circumstance, the owner usually delivers the horse and see's what goes on.

2) THe vast majority that end up here aren't from "horse lovers" there not singly owned horses they're not retired riding school horses they're horses that have fallen on hard times as it were. The ones sold through a market with no thought as to where it ends up as long as it gone good riddance. Most times the owner should have put it down themselve first but not being a "horse lover" didn't. So these people and the meat men who buy from the sales do a job that yes is the nasty side of the "industry" but a side that has to be there so that these horses end their days quickly as relativley painlessly. 

The US and other places serve to show what happens when the abbitoirs no longer there.

Far far better to be shot then left to starve and rot somewhere out of site and out of mind.


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## HBII (9 October 2007)

All part of owning an animal; you have a responsibilty for its life and its death. Quite hard to watch from an emotional point of view however having never seen a horse PTS I am pleased at how quickly the bullet kills the animal. The staff looked very professional and skilled; at the end of the day it is a business they need to be quick and effieicent for the animals sake.


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## Tiggy1 (9 October 2007)

I think to be controversial you will find that a large quantity of farm animals are pregnant when they go the abbattoir through no fault of their own


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## keeperscottage (9 October 2007)

DieselDog....what was wrong with your mare? Why did you have her put down?


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## Weezy (9 October 2007)

No, you are right, I cannot relate to that - for an intelligent, well adjusted woman to hit rock bottom because her horse's life had ended just doesn't sit well with me and I find it unhealthy - it also begs me to ask the question as to whether she replaced humans in her life with animals, or if that animal had helped her through a tragic time in her life and his death heralded the end of an era that she found painful.  Of course, I can relate to people grieving for horses and missing them - but having a breakdown?  Nope, don't think I could ever understand it.

As for dogs - well they are different.  The are with us far more and are part of our homes.  They leave more of an obvious gap in our lives than horses do - dogs are genuinely pleased to see us, and I know people say horses are and I have had that sort of relationship with my horses, but in the back of my mind I cannot help but wonder if all they want is food!


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## dieseldog (9 October 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
DieselDog....what was wrong with your mare? Why did you have her put down? 

[/ QUOTE ]

I got bored.  She was the wrong colour.


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## polyphonic (9 October 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
DieselDog....what was wrong with your mare? Why did you have her put down? 

[/ QUOTE ]

I got bored.  She was the wrong colour. 

[/ QUOTE ]

PMSL!! DD- you Cant say THAT! i LOLed so hard then I nearly fractured my other collar bone!


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## foxviewstud (9 October 2007)

oh dear this has really caused quite a stir, and i agree with some bits that people have said and i disagree with other bits people have said, to me and a lot of people i know horses are not just there to do a job, without them we would not be where we are today as a society and i think people often forget that or simply dont care, if a horse has to be pts then fair enough but to send happy healthy animals then no cannot understand it, to discard a horse because its not doing its 'job' well enough i feel is disrespectful, you couldnt get away with discarding people that dont do their job properly, i have always felt the human race is so distructive and cruel and driven by money, to watch some of the things people do and enjoy to do makes me sick, animals dont go round blowing up others, raping torturing shooting stabbing etc etc so to me the animals are far more intellegent than we give credit, 

god i have rambled a bit sorry lol


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## custard (9 October 2007)

I have to say having watched all the footage they were all dispatched quickly, cleanly and professionally IMO.  The old guy clearly knows his job backwards, none of the horses seem obviously distressed, no more than one sees at a local show being loaded/travelled every goddam weekend!

Personally I would not/could not send any horse of mine away to be shot but if one of them broke a limb in the middle of nowhere, may not have a choice.  I actually feel better about the prospect having seen this footage.


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## sunflower (9 October 2007)

QR - I have only just seen this post and frankly haven't read all of the replies as the levels of hysteria got a bit much for me. I would just like to say that there is a difference between being callous, hard-hearted etc and being pragmatic. If you take on the responsibility of an animal then you have to accept that there will come a time when you have to make decisions about its future. It is, IMO, a lot less cruel to have an animal put to sleep,  in whichever manner you feel is best,  then to sell the animal on to an uncertain future while telling yourself you have given it a new lease of life. 
It may be kinder or less stressful on the animal to be euthanased at home - who's to say? They are horses, not humans, they don't have the same level of understanding or emotional response as we do. All of our dogs have been put to sleep at the vets - are we cruel for not having it done at home? I really don't think it made any difference to them.


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## Parkranger (9 October 2007)

I am the world's biggest baby when it comes to footage of this nature and it took me 30 minutes to work up the courage to watch it.

My first horse was shot when he broke his leg in the field - our vet told us that if he didn't shoot him, he'd go down on his bad leg and the last thing he'd feel was pain as the injection took effect.

I can actually say that I would now want my horse shot if push came to shove - I don't think anything was 'dodgy' about the footage.  I would hazard a guess that the last horse fell in the yard - how the hell would you pick it up out of a trailer and leave it on the floor like that.  

I've seen too many horses with cr@p owners and treated badly and would much rather they were slaughtered - no matter how upsetting it can be.


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## the watcher (10 October 2007)

QR
My word this has all got out of hand!

My expereince is that is is rare for somebody who has owned a horse for a long time to take it to somewhere like Potters, although it does happen and one of my friends did take her mare there (not rideable, not suitable for breeding, she couldn't afford a field ornament, I respect her decision)

Usually the horses that end up there have been purchased at auction, sold by soft hearted owners (amongst others) who cannot bear to do what they should do, and sold to a very uncertain future. I know of a number of dealers who would be considered to be professional and legitimate who reguularly send horses there that are not worth bringing on for sale.

Does anybody seriously think that these horses would have a better life if there wasn't this kind of outlet? No, some owners would do the right thing and have them shot at home then sold on the hook, or have the kennels come and dispatch and take them away. Others, at the much lower end of the market would simply discard them. If you don't believe me you should see the travellers ponies I have rescued and rehomed over the years, dumped because they can't squeeze out yet another foal, or because they have broken down - but usually too small or weak to have any value as meat.


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## hackneylass2 (10 October 2007)

I think this will always be a subject too personal to debate on.
My take is, if we have ownership of an animal to do purely a job, eg foxhound, pro/semi-pro showjumper, riding school pony... whatever, then we usually do not get as attached to it as an animal primarily kept as a companion, (for us) even if we show/work it. 
Perhaps it all comes down to how we value the animal?  what it can do for us, versus what it can give to us? Maybe we sometimes do not value them as much as we should?
However I do feel that a salient point was made earlier... if the bullet is quicker, why not use it on dogs/cats?
I know a kennelman who has no qualms about despatching hounds with a bullet to the back of the head, but will not hear of that method for his own labs....who are incidentally used as gundogs.

Personally, purely due to past experiences, lethal injection at home (or at least with owner present) has never been less than swift and peaceful. I feel that whichever method is used(free bullet or injection)  the least the owner can do is be there...anything else is passing the buck.

Sure, the slaughtermen in the video are chatting about everyday stuff...they will, they do this every day, they have no attachment, and seem to be decent about the work they do.  That said, I would never send a horse of mine there. I realise that I am privelaged to be able to own horses, maybe some take it for granted too much?

I wonder if anyone seeing that vid recognised a horse of theirs?  Would be interesting to hear what they thought.


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## WelshRareBit (10 October 2007)

I thought the injection method with horses was harder to get right whereas its easier with cats and dogs as they are smaller, and also vets will euthanise cats and dogs every day - whereas a horse is rarer and as such maybe they arent as good at doing it?  Thats only what I thought mind, so happy to be disabused of it!!


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## chestnut cob (10 October 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
just to add amy tryon is apparently a disgrace to the equine world. she made a mistake albeit a terrible mistake but how is everyone hating her, and not disgusted by that footage. my father in his capacity as an enviournmental health officer has worked in many abbatiors and found the slaughter men are predominantly sidistic and enjoy their work. bear that in mind! 

[/ QUOTE ]

As an (apparently) A Level English student, please rearrange the following words into a sentence....."crap, load of, what a"

Do you honestly think that slaughter men are sadistic and enjoy shooting animals??  At somewhere between 16 and 18, if you're doing A Levels, just how many slaughter men have you known and have told you they enjoy it and get pleasure out of it?

Would you be this upset if it were cows or pigs being taken for slaughter?

As JM said earlier on, we've been through this before.  People are upset because they view horses as pets, not as meat like cows or sheep.


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## SirenaXVI (10 October 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
 I also can not believe how most of you thought that establishment provided a more humane service than those abroad. A lot of those unfortunate horses and ponies filmed were STILL alive after being shot. This was obvious as they
were still thrashing about as they were being chained up. 

[/ QUOTE ] 

Basic biology - they are actually dead before they hit the ground.  They twitch the same way any body would once the brain stem is dead.  From your comments I would deduce that you have never seen footage of foreign slaughterhouses, if you had you would know that this one is infinately preferable.

Personally, the video was a lot less upsetting than I thought it would be, none of the horses looked stressed or scared - they were treated calmly and with much more respect than the poor horses in the Mexican slaughter house (where all American horses now go since they banned horse slaughter in the USA).  So - hats off to that particular slaughterhouse, I wish there were more like it.  Think on this - without that abbattoir - those horses would have been sent live to the continent, if people like Animal Aid are trying to get places like this closed then they will cause untold suffering to thousands of horses.

Before I get accused of being hardhearted, I do have a lawnmower - she is 30 years old, and, for now, fit as a fiddle.  When her time comes, I will have her pts at home - was thinking of the injection, but have known this to go wrong, thanks to this video I now feel happier about the bullet.

I do feel that it is NOT the abbattoir who is at fault here, it is the owner who either sent their horse to the sales because they shirked their responsibility, or the overzealous breeder who sent them to the abbattoir for the meat money when they did not make the grade.


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## keeperscottage (10 October 2007)

Chestnutcob, I am replying on behalf of my daughter who is currently in her bedroom doing A Level course work. Firstly, had you read her post properly, you would have noted that her father, an environmental health officer, worked in a slaughterhouse as part of his training. I can well remember him telling me what hard, cruel people the slaughtermen were, describing them as being sadistic and enjoying their work. I think she has sufficient knowledge to comment on this subject.

As for the pigs/cows being slaughtered, yes, we are both moved to tears by this too since my daughter has been a total veggie for seven years (although she is a hunt supporter and used to beat on shoots...."Pheasants have a far better life than some poor chicken in a battery farm"). She won't even eat fish whereas I will eat fish, poultry and game.

The vast majority of my friends consider their horses to be their pets with the possible exception of a friend who has point-to-pointers but even he was devasted when his home bred mare, this year's East Anglian Champion mare, cracked her pelvis in two places on the gallops. Any other horse  would have had dispatched, but this one he nutured back to health (she's now being ridden).

We are getting off the point; my point is, if you love your horse, you have it dispatched at home. I only know one woman who sent two horses to slaughter and she has been vilified by the local horse people who know her.


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## keeperscottage (10 October 2007)

DiesleDog - wrong colour.......I could well believe it!


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## Shilasdair (10 October 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
Chestnutcob, I am replying on behalf of my daughter who is currently in her bedroom doing A Level course work. Firstly, had you read her post properly, you would have noted that her father, an environmental health officer, worked in a slaughterhouse as part of his training. I can well remember him telling me what hard, cruel people the slaughtermen were, describing them as being sadistic and enjoying their work. I think she has sufficient knowledge to comment on this subject.

As for the pigs/cows being slaughtered, yes, we are both moved to tears by this too since my daughter has been a total veggie for seven years (although she is a hunt supporter and used to beat on shoots...."Pheasants have a far better life than some poor chicken in a battery farm"). She won't even eat fish whereas I will eat fish, poultry and game.

The vast majority of my friends consider their horses to be their pets with the possible exception of a friend who has point-to-pointers but even he was devasted when his home bred mare, this year's East Anglian Champion mare, cracked her pelvis in two places on the gallops. Any other horse  would have had dispatched, but this one he nutured back to health (she's now being ridden).

We are getting off the point; my point is, if you love your horse, you have it dispatched at home. I only know one woman who sent two horses to slaughter and she has been vilified by the local horse people who know her. 

[/ QUOTE ]

This 'holier-than-thou' tone is quite irritating from someone who appears to be desperately trying to sell her horses on another post.  Did these particular horses not count 'as pets' then?  Double standards in the extreme.   Or maybe I should take my cue from you, and sell my old horses...after neatly moving them from my mental 'Pet category' to my 'Sell for as much profit as I can category'.
And good luck to your daughter in her A level English...
S


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## JM07 (10 October 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
I will NEVER for the life of me know how any of you "horse lovers" would want a horse to end its life with an undignified bullet. When mine goes it'll be at home, in familiar surroundings with an overdose of euthanol or whatever it is vets use. If you or a relative were terminally ill, what would you prefer the ending to be? A projectile which can not be relied upon to be successful first time or a carefully measured dose of morphine?

I also can not believe how most of you thought that establishment provided a more humane service than those abroad. A lot of those unfortunate horses and ponies filmed were STILL alive after being shot. This was obvious as they 
were still thrashing about as they were being chained up.

These animals have given their all to humans and this is how we repay them. Disposing of them as if they were meaningless inanimate clapped out old bangers being sent to the scrappy.   

You make me sick! 

[/ QUOTE ]

1st paragraph...me thinks your rosey specs are a little too tinted

2nd paragraph...what utter tosh...nerve endings stay active after thet are brain dead...

3rd paragraph....cant argue with that

4th...here, have a bag.


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## Shilasdair (10 October 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
DiesleDog - wrong colour.......I could well believe it! 

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, it's so difficult when you buy a new pair of jods and your horse doesn't match, isn't it?
S


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## keeperscottage (10 October 2007)

SirenaXVI, I concur with your final paragraph completely. I have been attacked from all angles since my horses are my PETS and when they die (I have lost two in the past, one I'd owned for 22 years) the last possible thing I would do would be to send them off on a lorry to slaughter. One was shot (and I said to myself "Never again") and the second died by lethal injection, peacefully. It is COWARDLY and UNCARING to send a sick/old/injured horse away to die! This is my argument (I have not and will not watch the video)! I have spoken to several people and each and every one of them has said, if you care for your horse, you owe it to them to have them put down at home, NOT transport them to a slaughterhouse. Finally, I was particularly upset by the person who posted on the forum referring to my crocodile tears - I will respond to her separately.


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## JM07 (10 October 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
 I only know one woman who sent two horses to slaughter and she has been vilified by the local horse people who know her. 

[/ QUOTE ]

don't tell me...burnt at the stake, no doubt.......


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## Shilasdair (10 October 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
I have been attacked from all angles since my horses are my PETS  

[/ QUOTE ]

Except for the ones you are trying to sell on quickly for a profit then?
Don't get me wrong, that's fine to do, and you have a right to do what you like with your property.
But so do the posters on here who choose to send their horses to Potters, without you having a go at them, or bullying them, sorry, I mean 'villifying'.
S


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## GinGin2 (10 October 2007)

If you have not and will not watch the video I fail to see how you can have a valid opinion on this debate.

I wasn't sure if I could watch it, especially as I recently have had to consider that I may need to make the decision to put my mare to sleep - fingers crossed not yet though...but I did watch it.  I didn't feel what I thought I would.

Personally for me, the body is a vessel and I think what's more important is the way we treat our animals when they are alive.

Instead of bitching on about how cruel people are for sending their animals to the slaughterhouse you should be more concerned about the idiots that ruin their lives in the first place.

It is not cowardly to send a horse to away to die, mostly it's the hardest decision there will ever be, and I think that the majority of people make it with the animals best interest at heart.  It looked quick and stress free in the video... but then you wouldn't know that.... ignorance is bliss eh!


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## SirenaXVI (10 October 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
SirenaXVI, I concur with your final paragraph completely. I have been attacked from all angles since my horses are my PETS and when they die (I have lost two in the past, one I'd owned for 22 years) the last possible thing I would do would be to send them off on a lorry to slaughter. One was shot (and I said to myself "Never again") and the second died by lethal injection, peacefully. It is COWARDLY and UNCARING to send a sick/old/injured horse away to die! This is my argument (I have not and will not watch the video)! I have spoken to several people and each and every one of them has said, if you care for your horse, you owe it to them to have them put down at home, NOT transport them to a slaughterhouse. Finally, I was particularly upset by the person who posted on the forum referring to my crocodile tears - I will respond to her separately. 

[/ QUOTE ]

The thing is, there will always be people who use an abbattoir, like someone has already said "If you have livestock, then you also have deadstock".  Although I would personally have my horses put down at home, in the real world there are always going to be people who for whatever reason can't/won't.  

By not watching the video, you are not qualified to comment on this particular abbattoir, or the humanity or otherwise of their staff.  Whilst I respect the fact that you do not want to watch it, that is your choice, but by not doing so you cannot make informed comments.


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## keeperscottage (10 October 2007)

JM07 - that would have been too good for her!


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## keeperscottage (10 October 2007)

I have been around horses since 1963 and I think I am in a good position to make informed comments. I am sick to death with this debate but equally I cannot turn my back on certain people who slag me off knowing nothing whatsoeveer about me,


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## chestnut cob (10 October 2007)

Sorry but you can't form an opinion based on third hand evidence.  I did my PhD last year and if i'd tried to publish papers based on "what my dad said" I would have been laughed out of my exams!  Neither you nor your daughter has formed their own opinion on this matter, you have taken someone else's opinion and made it your own.

A couple of months ago I went to look round a yard with the people who, at the time, were going to loan my pony.  They are heavily involved with the Hunt and I was taken to meet some of the hunt staff at the kennels.  While we were there they took a "delivery" from the knacker man of several young deer, which were skinned and gutted whilst I was there.  These guys carried on chatting and laughing whilst it was happening - it's just a job for them.  Now I know it's not the same as shooting the animal themselves but it really is just their job - do you want them to shed a tear for every animal?

These guys aren't there to be sentimental, they are there to do a quick, hopefully painless job.  I have friends in the Police who see all sorts of sights and they have all said that after a while you don't feel anything anymore, you just get on with it and find ways to deal with it.

Personally, I want the hunt to deal with my boy.  He's out on loan and the loan contract states that he must be PTS by the hunt staff unless they can't get to him and he's in pain.  I personally wouldn't want to take my horse to the slaughter house because it's not for me, but that doesn't mean it's not a valid choice for other people.

You need to remember that horses are a business as well.  We don't all have the funds and the land to keep every horse we ever own until the end of its days.  Incidentally....the people who I bought my pony from had one of their horses PTS at home by injection (they owned a RS, the rest were all taken to the abbatoir or the hunt came/took them).  They said it was the worst of the lot, and as the vet insisted on doing it in the stable, it took so long to arrange then have the stables taken down and a JCB in to remove the body that the site was absolute carnage by the time they'd moved the body....so having it done at home isn't always rosy either.


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## PiaffeRM (10 October 2007)

Ok OK, Ill say my bit. Fortunately never been in the position, myself, to have a horse PTS. 

TBH, after watching the vid, I would def take my orse to Potters. They have a good reputation and the secret filming showed nothing to disprove that.

The horses were calm, they were fed and it looked very professional. 


As it has already been said, I wont go into the injection versus bullet issue, it is basic phsyiology as to which method is the most effective.

As for the slaughtermen being cold hearted-er why? Do you expect them to blub everytime they shoot an animal? Its simply not going to happen is it? 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 I can say this, from experience, having dealt with dead babies (of the human variety) and having briefly worked in a mortuary.

"Priorities" springs to mind.....


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## the watcher (11 October 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
We are getting off the point; my point is, if you love your horse, you have it dispatched at home. I only know one woman who sent two horses to slaughter and she has been vilified by the local horse people who know her. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Quite apart from some of the conflicts in your previous posts and your refusal to consider any other point of view than your own; your apparent sanctioning of the above completely takes my breath away. Yes, vilify somebody who ill treats or neglects their horses if you don't have the wit or the will to do something about it, but to ostracise and criticise somebody who has simply taken the decision to positively deal with their horse rather than send it to auction for somebody else to deal with is so wrong, mean spirited, cowardly and reflects very poorly on you.


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## weevil (11 October 2007)

Well having read this thread the first point I would like to make is shouldn't the title be "Taunton abattoir - not for the _faint_ hearted"???
Also, while in an ideal world all horses would be PTS at home surrounded by family this is not always practical/possible or in the best interests of the horse.
Abattoirs perform a valuable service doing what must be an unpleasant job. I know a few people who have done work experience at abattoirs (mainly as part of the application process for veterinary degrees) and have never heard them complain that the staff were sadists who gained pleasure from killing poor animals. The staff may chat to each other while they are working but that does not mean that they enjoy what they are doing - would it really be better for the animals in question if the staff were weeping and wailing over them?

As others have pointed out the state in which animals arrive at abattoirs has nothing to do with the staff who work there, yes many of them are not in a very good condition but all the staff can do is try to ensure that they are euthanised as quickly and painlessly as possible, even if it doesn't look very nice.


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## PiaffeRM (11 October 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
Well having read this thread the first point I would like to make is shouldn't the title be "Taunton abattoir - not for the _faint_ hearted"???

[/ QUOTE ]

OH YEAH!!!!! I nearly spat my stake and ale pie out then!!!! I hadn't even noticed that! LMFAO


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## Tia (11 October 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
stake and ale pie  

[/ QUOTE ] 
Don't you find that the splinters are something to contend with in those pies though?


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## PiaffeRM (11 October 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
 [ QUOTE ]
stake and ale pie  

[/ QUOTE ] 
Don't you find that the splinters are something to contend with in those pies though? 

[/ QUOTE ]
*rolls eyes* 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 Ah ha, must THINK properly whilst typing.

I correct mysself...&gt;STEAK! Happy???


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## Tia (11 October 2007)

I'm always happy.


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## PiaffeRM (11 October 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
I'm always happy.  
	
	
		
		
	


	





[/ QUOTE ]

THATS IT! IM LEAVING. 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 i have never felt so picked on, in my life. i do not understand with an "established" member of the from has to pick on a newbie. This place is full of bullies....shame on you.


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## Tia (11 October 2007)




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## mollymurphy (11 October 2007)

Thank you Tia!  I can sleep well tonight now!


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## M_G (11 October 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
 [ QUOTE ]
stake and ale pie  

[/ QUOTE ] 
Don't you find that the splinters are something to contend with in those pies though? 

[/ QUOTE ]

PMSL Tia you are on the ball


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## polyphonic (11 October 2007)

there is only way word to decribe her= LEGEND!


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## M_G (11 October 2007)

How right you are....this whole thred made me giggle in a way..it was put up to shock but it showed me how these places are not nearly as bad as we might expect..I was rather impressed at the way the horses were handled and dispatched so quickly.

Just shows that if you do get in dire straights and cant afford to have your horse PTS for whatever reason there is another option rather than let them suffer/starve


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## aimeerose (11 October 2007)

I didnt hear another gunshot - a bang but thats not conclusive.
the chestnut? not sure
Other than that i would say calm, clean and quick.

Sorry, wasnt particually horrified at all.


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## polyphonic (11 October 2007)

we think nothing of taking a cat, rabbit, dog, cavie, rabbit and laying it on the table... be a realist.  Not all of us have the option of PST at home, but i wouldnt require that.  It is not ALWAYS AN OPTION!!!

keeep that in your head, lead by best and you wont let them down. ever.


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## weevil (11 October 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well having read this thread the first point I would like to make is shouldn't the title be "Taunton abattoir - not for the _faint_ hearted"???

[/ QUOTE ]

OH YEAH!!!!! I nearly spat my stake and ale pie out then!!!! I hadn't even noticed that! LMFAO 
	
	
		
		
	


	





[/ QUOTE ]
I know there are bigger issues being discussed here but it has been bugging me for ages


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## HHO admin (12 October 2007)

Dear forum users

A number of the posts in this thread have been removed as they contain personal attacks on fellow forum users. Please do not resort to this type of behaviour just because you do not share each other's views. Any repeat of such behaviour may lead to action being taken against those involved. Clearly this is a topic which will result in strong debate but such discussion should be able to take place without forum members resorting to personal insults or attacks.

Kind regards

HHO Admin


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## Honeypots (12 October 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
 but such discussion should be able to take place without forum members resorting to personal insults or attacks.

Kind regards

HHO Admin 

[/ QUOTE ]

ya reckon?!!........


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## SonnysHumanSlave (12 October 2007)

Ok i cannot see the video.
But by the sounds of it theres no real evidence against the abbatoir other then they're killing horses for meat......... but hang on a minute...... didn't the same organisations involved put the pressure on the live export ban??

Sorry but no one can win!!

Wheres the trial in court then i'll take interest!!

Isn't it better horses are slaughtered for meat, rather then starving abandoned in fields.

TBH we'd have way better horse breeding if we had a better horse market as the rubbish horses wouldn't be put to stud with any old tat!!


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## TGM (12 October 2007)

Wasn't sure whether to watch the video or not, but I did in the end and was impressed by how calm the horses were and how quickly they were despatched. 

Personally, I would always have my own horses put down at home but I can understand that there will always be a need for the abbatoir service and am pleased to see that conditions there seem to be good.


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## mollymurphy (12 October 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
Dear forum users

A number of the posts in this thread have been removed as they contain personal attacks on fellow forum users. Please do not resort to this type of behaviour just because you do not share each other's views. Any repeat of such behaviour may lead to action being taken against those involved. Clearly this is a topic which will result in strong debate but such discussion should be able to take place without forum members resorting to personal insults or attacks.

Kind regards

HHO Admin 

[/ QUOTE ]

Fair enough Admin, but where have MY posts gone?  I was only asking questions about the slughter process.  All i can find now is where i've said "thank you Tia..."  All the ones before that are missing.  What did I say wrong???


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## TGM (12 October 2007)

Judging from previous 'censorship', Admin don't take the time to delete only the contentious posts but just delete the entire chunk starting from where the 'nastiness' started.  So don't take it personally 
	
	
		
		
	


	




.


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## mollymurphy (12 October 2007)

How annoying!  The replies were educational!!!


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## JM07 (12 October 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
Dear forum users

A number of the posts in this thread have been removed as they contain personal attacks on fellow forum users. Please do not resort to this type of behaviour just because you do not share each other's views. Any repeat of such behaviour may lead to action being taken against those involved. Clearly this is a topic which will result in strong debate but such discussion should be able to take place without forum members resorting to personal insults or attacks.

Kind regards

HHO Admin 

[/ QUOTE ]


aw, c'mon Admin...

most was jovial banter and a little pi55 taking....

if anyone reported this to you then i for one think they lead a sad little life and need to get out a bit more...


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## dun_in (12 October 2007)

Glad I printed it all off to read at leisure last night.  Somehow I knew it would be ditched.  One of the longest posts I've seen and it was getting rather heated.

This is a subject people will never agree on but at least the ILPH agree with me (- or is it the other way around?)

Anyway HHO Admin - congrats on getting this forum working again, it had almost died.


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## xspiralx (12 October 2007)

I didn't report it, but I'm glad to see it gone - I thought it was unpleasant and unkind.


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## Coffee_Bean (12 October 2007)

Very distressing footage, paricularly that little grey pony. It is extremely sad, but I suppose it is something that has to be done. Made me cry though.


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## HHO admin (13 October 2007)

Unfortunately the way the forum software works means that all posts beyond the one that contravenes the terms and conditions are removed at the same time as the offending post. I am sorry if posts that complied with the forum t&amp;cs were accidentally removed, but this is beyond my control.

HHO Admin


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## MissIndependance (14 October 2007)

It's not the abbotoirs fault what gets sent to them. My other half has taken horses to that abbatoir and was very impressed with the professionalism and cleanliness of the place.


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## ISHmad (15 October 2007)

Our horses have always been PTS by injection at home.  But I fully appreciate that that isn't always possible, as stated by others on this thread.  It is an emotive subject but hopefully people will realise that for some people there is no option BUT to send their horses to an abattoir.  It wouldn't be our choice, but if our circumstances changed and we had to do that then what else could we do?  Better to know the horse passed away in this country and not on some arduous journey abroad, and although I haven't watched the clip it sounds like everything went as well as can be expected with such sad things.


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## cassie123 (15 October 2007)

Very sad, made me cry a lot.


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## Partoow (16 October 2007)

It is sad that healthy horses have to be sent here but better this than neglected.
From the footage i think all the horses shown were handled well and with respect. There were'nt loads of horses seeing what was going on it was quiet and calm and most of all quick.The room inwhich the horses were slaughtered was always clean and no traces of previous horses blood. 
Having lived in the Netherlands where horses come from Poland transported in the most awful conditions ..now thats where the ILPH need our help. I do not agree with long journeys and think that all the horses shown had a dignified end.
The poor injured horse was not the fault of the abbetoir the owners need a good slap. They were the one breaking the law in terms of prolonging suffering . once there the horse was treated calmly .
I am afraid this is something we have to face up too. I will always have mine done at home and it is quick especially when done as seen.


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## nona1 (20 October 2007)

I didn't see anything that distressed me beyond the thought of 'how sad that these horses are in a situation where they have to be destroyed'. The handling was excellent and very professional - the man is clearly a horseman. When the large horse baulked slightly at entering the area the handler just very calmly continued to lead him in and whistled quietly to encourage the horse to follow him - no shouting, tugging or roughness at all. The area was thoroughly cleaned between horses. The shooting was fast and accurate.

On the 'still alive because twitching' idea - I too used to think that the old 'it's just the nerve endings' explanation was rubbish until I saw a programme on TV recently. IT was the show where they slaughtered animals and prepared them right in front of a group of people who then ate them. At one point there was a lump of beef hanging on a hook - literally just a joint of meat about 1 foot square, and it was twitching, spasming and moving like anything. No way was that possibly 'alive' in any sense of the word, and they explained that it was the body chemicals breaking down and still effecting the nerves. This sort of movement is very common after death. The animal is still totally dead though.


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## JanetGeorge (4 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]

I think its absolutely essential for any animal welfare organisations to bring awareness to people. They do it for the sake of the animals and lets be honest with the attitudes of some  , someone needs to! 

Why not encourage organisations such as animal aid-frankly i dont understand why they have recieved critisism??


[/ QUOTE ]

Animal Aid is NOT a 'welfare' organisation - it is an animal 'rights' organisation.  It's ethos is about raising campaigning funds by using 'shock, horror' tactics and NOT by telling the truth!

Campaigning against horse slaughter - as the animal rights organisations in the USA have done - could end up in FAR more horses being transported to Europe in appalling conditions to be slaughtered with far less respect and compassion than they receive in this country.  Just as in the USA they travel to Mexico or Canada - over vast distances - often in totally unsuitable transport.

We don't know why the heavily pregnant mare was sent for slaughter - she may have had a health problem that would have stopped her giving birth or rearing a foal successfully.  She may have just been unwanted.  Either way, probably better she was slaughtered then, and the foal killed if necessary, than that she was allowed to foal and was THEN sent to market with a young foal at foot - to possibly end up at the same place.

It's not something I would do - my oldies are put down at home - but not everyone can afford to 'throw good money after bad'.  Getting something back rather than paying £150 - 200 (or more in some areas) to have a horse put down and the carcase removed, MAY be pretty important for some people.

Putting down a pregnant mare is something I'd HATE to do - but I have an 18 year old TB mare who was losing weight rearing her foal (she's in foal again.)  Had the vet to check her out and he discovered a bad systolic heart murmur which means her days are numbered.  She's getting loads of TLC and her foal will be weaned early to give her a chance, but what do I do if she keeps getting thinner and thinner - to the point where there's little chance of her surviving foaling??  Do I risk her dying in labour - with loss of the foal almost inevitable (or at best an orphan to hand rear) or do I put her down (with her unborn foal)?  I HOPE we can get enough condition on her and keep her well enough that the decision won't be necessary.  Obviously she won't be put in foal again, even if she gets through the foaling.  IF she does - and can rear the foal - I'll let her, and then she'll be put down at home.  But it's not always as black and white as it seems to Animal Aid who see "Shock, horror piccies = lots of donations!"


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