# Olympia 2017 - The Chilean Huasos - thoughts?



## mandyroberts (16 December 2017)

I went to Olmpia this week and was disappointed with The Chilean Huasos. I didn't find it an entertaining performance and the horses looked stressed. They had to do repetitive moves numerous times and I didn't think it was in keeping with what I expect to see at Olympia. Many have complained at the huge spurs but I have to say I couldn't see a single spur mark.
Compare to the Met Police ride whose horses looked very happy even jumping through fire!

I have expressed my views to Olympia and received the same response as they have posted on Facebook.
I expected to see some comments on the forum, am I only only one with this view?

Carl and Charlotte were fab as always and the FEI dressage was great.


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## Cortez (16 December 2017)

I wasn't at Olympia, but I have seen Chilean horses and riders at other demonstrations. It's a different style of riding, on different sort of horses than you may be used to. The size of the spurs is irrelevant, it's how they are used that matters.


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## AdorableAlice (16 December 2017)

I watched on TV and the commentator, Nick Luck I think, repeated several times that the spurs were blunted off and didn't hurt the horses.

I didn't enjoy the display on TV at all.


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## MyBoyChe (16 December 2017)

I saw it on TV last night and was most unimpressed and disappointed.  Nick Luck seemed to be struggling to make it sound interesting as well, I bet he never thought he'd be commentating on handkerchief waving and trying to make it sound exciting!  It just didnt have the wow factor for me


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## pinkypug1 (16 December 2017)

I didn't enjoy  the show as it's just not my kind of thing. But I wasnt shocked or appalled by it. At the end of the day different cultures have horses for different jobs and train them in different ways. The horses are used to this it's the British culture that's isn't. They may look at some of our practices and think it inappropriate it's horses for courses at the end of the day.


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## Shantara (16 December 2017)

It went on far too long and I agree, it wasn't very interesting. 
I did like when the girls and the horses were moving together though, if the whole thing had been that and lasted for 5mins, it would have been fine.
The horses didn't look overly happy and the police horses were worlds apart and looked amazing!!
And I'm glad you commented on the spurs, they looked horrible, but I couldn't see them being used inappropriately either. 

Hopefully they'll get something better next year!


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## rara007 (16 December 2017)

I enjoyed seeing the different style of horses and Riding. I&#8217;ve seen all the &#8216;classics&#8217; (police, cavalry, variations of classical, the guy that stands on their backs...) literally loads of times, one of those plus something truely international I like. The RW display was good for that too!


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## BBP (16 December 2017)

I wasnt offended by the different style of riding or the spurs, horses all looked ones very well, but I thought all of them looked stressed with eyes rolled back and mouths open. Didnt enjoy it and was disappointed. I like to see horses that enjoy their job.


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## stormox (16 December 2017)

I think the spurs were big so the riders could give the horses aids, they rode with their legs very far forward. Its interesting to see how different cultures, who use horses for different purposes to us, have different riding styles and do different exhibitions. I didnt see any misuse of spurs or bits.


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## Fools Motto (16 December 2017)

I too saw it on the TV. I'm all for watching other cultures doing their displays, so for that reason it was ok. Saying that, I was bored! The horses looked well cared for, and the spurs didn't bother me as they appeared to be used corrected and I believed they had to be blunt. I'm not sure their horses enjoyed it, but it's a display lasting a few minutes so hoping they can have a nice down time after too.

Maybe we would be more entertained by horse boarding?!


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## whiteflower (16 December 2017)

Have to say I fast forwarded it having recorded it. Met police however, I've watched that 3 times and even non horsey oh loved it. Horses looked like they were having a great time and the trust between horse and rider was something else, lovely to watch


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## milliepops (16 December 2017)

stormox said:



			I think the spurs were big so the riders could give the horses aids, they rode with their legs very far forward. Its interesting to see how different cultures, who use horses for different purposes to us, have different riding styles and do different exhibitions. I didnt see any misuse of spurs or bits.
		
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^^agree

I wasn't concerned by what I saw, I thought the horses looked in fabulous condition, the riding was different to what I'm personally used to but similar to other cultures where the horses are ridden on a curb, the spurs looked astonishing but the effect was clearly mild.  They were phenomenally agile and responsive horses.  I preferred it to some of the other displays they've had in recent years. The dancing went on a bit though!

Loved the police horses, goes without saying - brilliant, and gutsy riders too.


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## windand rain (16 December 2017)

I didnt enjoy it much but although I enjoyed the police horses I have seen them dozens of times before now putting the saddles back on would have been very clever and entertaining lol


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## oldie48 (16 December 2017)

I watched on TV and thought to myself, this will elicit a post or two on H&H forum. I didn't see anything that was a welfare issue, the style of riding is different but so what, just compare a dressage rider to a jockey or a show jumper to a polo player. Generally there was very little contact on the bit and very little use of the spurs, in fact I didn't see any and thought they were decorative rather than there as an aid. The riders were very balanced and to my untutored eyes seem to be ridden from the seat (so there's a novelty). The horses are used for rounding up cattle, hence the sideways canter which was active and unforced. This is what these horse do, they were supple, in good condition and well cared for. So the horses didn't seem happy, perhaps they were worried about the police horses because someone had told them that they had to jump through fire and a paper hoop, I bet they felt lucky that all they had to do was dodge girls waving hankies and go sidewards! No, I didn't enjoy it much, just a bit repetitive for my liking but I wasn't the least bit offended by it.


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## SEL (16 December 2017)

I was there when they performed last night and actually my biggest worry was those dancers had bare feet with the horses cantering around them - made my inner health & safety elf shudder.

I didn't think the horses looked tense or stressed - no more so than any other performers. Their performance was done at quite a speed so maybe that didn't translate well to TV. It wasn't the most refined display I've ever seen, but that's not really what it's about.


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## splash30 (16 December 2017)

IMO Thought it was horrific, horses looked stressed and on edge. Not entertainment. Bad choice of display.


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## SEL (16 December 2017)

Did they show the flat vs jump jockey charitable jumping on TV? If you want stressed horses then a few of those far exceeded anything in the Chilean display!


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## scats (16 December 2017)

It wasn't really my thing and SEL- like you, I winced at the barefoot dancers being so close! 
But it didn't offend me in the slightest, it just bored me a bit if I'm honest.


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## stormox (16 December 2017)

Yes SEL the jockey challenge was on. They were raising money for injured jockeys fund. Fair play to them for having a go


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## SEL (16 December 2017)

stormox said:



			Yes SEL the jockey challenge was on. They were raising money for injured jockeys fund. Fair play to them for having a go
		
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They were brilliant & the speed they approached the last jump at had me holding my breath every time!


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## HappyDayz (16 December 2017)

I was there last night, the MET Police were simply outstanding and truly deserved the standing ovation.

However the Chilain Huasos, the horse right in front of us did have spur marks, one of which looked quite raw. 

I understand that it is their culture but when officials at Olympia disqualified Bertram Allen the year before last after he won the Grand Prix for a tiny spur rub I cant quite get my head around how they would then endorse this?


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## Fools Motto (16 December 2017)

HappyDayz said:



			However the Chilain Huasos, the horse right in front of us did have spur marks, one of which looked quite raw. 

I understand that it is their culture but when officials at Olympia disqualified Bertram Allen the year before last after he won the Grand Prix for a tiny spur rub I can&#8217;t quite get my head around how they would then endorse this?
		
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Got a point there. I doubt they'll be back by the sounds of our opinions, so equally doubtful anything will come of your query.


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## DiNozzo (16 December 2017)

A display won't be regulated by the FEI and so not subject to same rules surely? (although if it is true, they should face some comeback).


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## HappyDayz (16 December 2017)

Fools Motto said:



			Got a point there. I doubt they'll be back by the sounds of our opinions, so equally doubtful anything will come of your query.
		
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I have emailed Olympia with regards to this. I understand the Grand Prix was run under FEI rules but I then struggle to understand how they would turn a blind eye to a display that they have chosen themselves, surely horse welfare should be at the top of the list when they select displays.


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## Cortez (16 December 2017)

DiNozzo said:



			A display won't be regulated by the FEI and so not subject to same rules surely? (although if it is true, they should face some comeback).
		
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Comeback? About what? From whom? To what end? Really, people should get over themselves - there is no issue here. If you are bored or whatever, go find something else to entertain yourselves...This is a different way to ride/use horses, no more or less.


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## DiNozzo (16 December 2017)

Cortez said:



			Comeback? About what? From whom? To what end? Really, people should get over themselves - there is no issue here. If you are bored or whatever, go find something else to entertain yourselves...This is a different way to ride/use horses, no more or less.
		
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I was referring to HappyDayz who said "However the Chilain Huasos, the horse right in front of us did have spur marks, one of which looked quite raw."


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## Nicnac (16 December 2017)

Well said Cortez. Like button pushed.


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## Cortez (16 December 2017)

DiNozzo said:



			I was referring to HappyDayz who said "However the Chilain Huasos, the horse right in front of us did have spur marks, one of which looked quite raw."
		
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Really? Well complain if you like, but there are worse things to see in the world of horses.


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## stormox (16 December 2017)

HappyDayz said:



			I have emailed Olympia with regards to this. I understand the Grand Prix was run under FEI rules but I then struggle to understand how they would turn a blind eye to a display that they have chosen themselves, surely horse welfare should be at the top of the list when they select displays.
		
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You emailed Olympia because you didnt like the display and one horse had spur marks?  A display doesnt have to abide by FEI rules. Show jumping has prize money, displays dont! I think people are so blinkered at times to their own countries way of riding they forget that other cultures have completely different ways of riding and training with their horses and we shouldnt be so judgemental. I  watched the display very carefully (yes I was there) and didnt see any misuse of spurs,or marks from them.
I thought it rather a boring display but thats just my opinion.


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## HappyDayz (16 December 2017)

stormox said:



			You emailed Olympia because you didnt like the display and one horse had spur marks?  A display doesnt have to abide by FEI rules. Show jumping has prize money, displays dont! I think people are so blinkered at times to their own countries way of riding they forget that other cultures have completely different ways of riding and training with their horses and we shouldnt be so judgemental. I  watched the display very carefully (yes I was there) and didnt see any misuse of spurs,or marks from them.
I thought it rather a boring display but thats just my opinion.
		
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Absolutely I agree, there are no rules, no governing body. However I enjoy seeing the displays from around the world and am quite often pleasantly surprised at how their horses can be so similar but perform and can be used so differently.

But when I was sat at the front with a horse being asked to dance that had multiple spur makes of which were very fresh I would want to question why they were endorsing this. Yes there was some misuse of spurs by two or three of their riders. I dont wish to start an argument, and for what its worth it wasnt the only one that had spur marks.


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## BBP (16 December 2017)

Cortez said:



			Comeback? About what? From whom? To what end? Really, people should get over themselves - there is no issue here. If you are bored or whatever, go find something else to entertain yourselves...This is a different way to ride/use horses, no more or less.
		
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Im really disappointed to see that you think people should get over themselves for being concerned about horses with raw spur marks and see no issue with it. A different way to ride or use horses does not justify raw marks on a horse. (Im sure you wont lose sleep over my opinion, but I usually respect what you say).


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## McFluff (16 December 2017)

I was there for the Thursday afternoon. I thought it was different, and was initially concerned about how the horses looked (to my eye, a bit stressed). However, they were in great condition, the riders (from what I could see - I was near the front, but obviously didn't see all close up) didn't appear to use the spurs. It wasn't really my thing, but the horses did look fit, cared for and well balanced. I was worried for the bare feet though. We were thinking that the riders looked large for the horses, but we were standing next to some outside, and they were really slim, it was the costume that looked big! 

The police horses were phenomenal. Great fun to watch and impressive balance and training.  but thinking about it, it's not surprising that the police horses were ok in the atmosphere while the Chilean ones were more tense - I assume they don't work in crowds on a daily basis.


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## Sugar_and_Spice (17 December 2017)

I don't think the horses look tense really, it's just they're short coupled with chunky necks, doing work that involves going from a very fast canter to walk/halt etc and back again repeatedly.  A small-ish, fast paced and agile horse like that isn't going to have the big moment of suspension in its paces shown by the huge warmbloods people usually see in competition. It's not going to look like a dressage test or SJ round.  

As for the spur marks, have people seen the way plenty of UK people ride all the time?  There may not be spur marks on the average UK horse but how many of them are repeatedly kicked in the ribs, near enough every stride, for the whole ride?  Or having their mouths jabbed until they've tucked their noses in (but are still tense through their backs)?  Just because the bruises can't be seen doesn't make it ok.  Competition riders aren't always much better in their treatment of the horses.  I've seen plenty of showjumpers repeatedly throwing their heads in the air in response to the rider's hands jabbing them in the mouth to check the pace on the approach to a fence, plenty of dressage horses collected up by small jabs with rein and spur.  How is that any better way of riding than the Chilean riders?  It's different, that's all.  I don't think the UK is really in any position to judge.


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## ycbm (17 December 2017)

That's the 'two wrongs make a right' argument S&S. It never works for me. 

Also, those ordinary riders aren't being paid a large amount of money to put on a display of their poor riding for the public.


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## stormox (17 December 2017)

KatPT said:



			I&#8217;m really disappointed to see that you think people should &#8216;get over themselves&#8217; for being concerned about horses with raw spur marks and see no issue with it. A different way to ride or use horses does not justify raw marks on a horse. (I&#8217;m sure you won&#8217;t lose sleep over my opinion, but I usually respect what you say).
		
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What about polo then? A UK 'sport' where horses look tense and stressed,have spur marks - even Prince Harrys horse was pictured with a bleeding spur wound- how many people complain about it?? The Chilean Huaso horse (I didnt actually see any wounds myself although I watched the disply) sounds positively mild in comparison !


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## Cortez (17 December 2017)

stormox said:



			What about polo then? A UK 'sport' where horses look tense and stressed,have spur marks - even Prince Harrys horse was pictured with a bleeding spur wound- how many people complain about it?? The Chilean Huaso horse (I didnt actually see any wounds myself although I watched the disply) sounds positively mild in comparison !
		
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Well, precisely....I wasn't there (nor at the polo  ) but I hardly think an alleged spur rub on one out of a group of perfectly healthy, well-cared for horses is cause to fire off letters/e-mails of complaint. There are far worse things to be seen in any of the more conventional equestrian disciplines.


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## BBP (17 December 2017)

I will respectfully agree to disagree. The worse things happen elsewhere doesnt hold much sway with me. I dont think they were abusive riders, but I didnt enjoy watching stressed horses as a demo that I paid to see. My horse was stressed at showjumping today, it happens, but I wouldnt be asking people to pay to see him perform.
This is what I saw the whole way through.






But I guess you are right, you could get this of most horses in the showjumping (and the dressage sadly). I still would prefer to see a demo that shows horsemanship that I could aspire to achieve myself one day.


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## mandyroberts (17 December 2017)

KatPT - you have put my sentiments better than I - thank you


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## rara007 (17 December 2017)

KatPT said:



			I still would prefer to see a demo that shows horsemanship that I could aspire to achieve myself one day.
		
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Do you have an example of one suitable for this sort of event? Ie. Not a lecture demo


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## milliepops (17 December 2017)

rara007 said:



			Do you have an example of one suitable for this sort of event? Ie. Not a lecture demo
		
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That's the problem isn't it. To fit into the schedule, it needs to be short, entertaining/engaging, reproduce-able several days on the trot, different enough from the rest of the programme etc.  Understandable by non-horsey public.On Wednesday we did also have a lecture demo from Carl and Charlotte.

In the last few years that I can remember we've had the cossacks, Jean Francois Pignon, Lusitanos, PREs etc... They've all had elements that could be pulled apart. Do we just not have these displays?


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## catwithclaws (17 December 2017)

Personally I enjoyed the display - i enjoy seeing different traditions and different styles of riding and training horses. I think actually as a nation we are really quite intolerant of others ways and we have no traditions worth mentioning - if someone asked me what British traditional dancing and singing was I'd be hard pressed to think of anything other than drunken idiots twerking to nicki minaj on a Saturday night.

Just because something is different it doesn't make it wrong. Horses there and in many other parts of the world are there to do a job, they're not 'pets' like they seem to be here. I didn't see anything to make me uncomfortable, they all rode with loose reins, spurs looked decorational and they all had very quiet seats. The horses were fast, compact, extremely well muscled and were never going to look or move like anything we would consider 'normal'


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## BBP (17 December 2017)

milliepops said:



			That's the problem isn't it. To fit into the schedule, it needs to be short, entertaining/engaging, reproduce-able several days on the trot, different enough from the rest of the programme etc.  Understandable by non-horsey public.On Wednesday we did also have a lecture demo from Carl and Charlotte.

In the last few years that I can remember we've had the cossacks, Jean Francois Pignon, Lusitanos, PREs etc... They've all had elements that could be pulled apart. Do we just not have these displays?
		
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You make a good point, the stuff that provides excitement and interest generally puts some sort of stress on the horse as the adrenaline is up and the cues end up resultingly more severe. To be fair I used to take part in horseboarding and whilst I know the horse I rode thoroughly enjoyed his job there were plenty of photos where people would think he was under stress as he wanted to keep galloping and I didnt! I am perhaps being too critical. The horses looked well and the riders looked decent I just didnt enjoy it as much as I wanted to (ive ridden in Chile and Argentina so Im not blind to the different horsemanship, some of the huesos there were incredible). Right now I am loving people like Emma Massingale but they arent performances and lack the energy to keep some people engaged. 

I went to mule days in California a couple of years back and they had a pack train race. It started with 6 teams, each having 5 mules and two ridden horses or mules. They turned all 42 equines loose together in the arena and then fired them all up so they were charging around and then the packers/cowboys had to run into the chaos, capture all their mules and horses (many who were far too busy meeting the other pack animals to let themselves be caught) load up the full pack train and then race a lap of the track. It was absolute chaos like nothing you would ever see in the UK, with no regard to health and safety but I loved it as entertainment, so perhaps I have double standards!

Ill pull my head in.


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## oldie48 (17 December 2017)

milliepops said:



			That's the problem isn't it. To fit into the schedule, it needs to be short, entertaining/engaging, reproduce-able several days on the trot, different enough from the rest of the programme etc.  Understandable by non-horsey public.On Wednesday we did also have a lecture demo from Carl and Charlotte.

In the last few years that I can remember we've had the cossacks, Jean Francois Pignon, Lusitanos, PREs etc... They've all had elements that could be pulled apart. Do we just not have these displays?
		
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No got to have a display, what about barrel racing?


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## paddy555 (17 December 2017)

KatPT said:



			I went to &#8216;mule days&#8217; in California a couple of years back and they had a pack train race. It started with 6 teams, each having 5 mules and two ridden horses or mules. They turned all 42 equines loose together in the arena and then fired them all up so they were charging around and then the packers/cowboys had to run into the chaos, capture all their mules and horses (many who were far too busy meeting the other pack animals to let themselves be caught) load up the full pack train and then race a lap of the track. It was absolute chaos like nothing you would ever see in the UK, with no regard to health and safety but I loved it as entertainment, so perhaps I have double standards!

I&#8217;ll pull my head in.
		
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what about this. Far more than 42 loose horses. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abFZghDrTvU

to make it more exciting each breed society could send a group of their horses.

(the key is the led horses who are the bell mares)


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## sav123 (17 December 2017)

Last year, I walked out during the display of the man with the dogs and the horses because I felt so uncomfortable watching it. To me, his horses looked really unhappy and stressed, and it turned my stomach when he made the dogs climb on the horses (the point where I left). Jean-Francois Pignon the previous year left me with a similar feeling - he spent most of his time trying to make all his horses lie down, and none of his horses looked particularly happy either.

I didn't mind the Mexican display. The majority of the time, the riders seemed to have their feet well forward and away from the horses' sides, and from what I could see, generally the spurs were used with the flat side against the horse rather than the edge. 

Is Lorenzo the Flying Frenchman likely to be back again? From what I remember of his displays, his horses always seemed to enjoy what they did, and they had the freedom to go wrong (if that makes sense!) which never seemed to be an issue for him if it did happen - he just laughed along with everyone else.


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## HashRouge (17 December 2017)

catwithclaws said:



			I think actually as a nation we are really quite intolerant of others ways and we have no traditions worth mentioning - if someone asked me what British traditional dancing and singing was I'd be hard pressed to think of anything other than drunken idiots twerking to nicki minaj on a Saturday night.
		
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I don't want to be preachy, but the UK has a huge wealth of traditional music. There are dozens of folk festivals every year and lots of very talented folk musicians, including many young and up and coming ones. On a local level there are folk clubs and pubs where folk singing is common. Just because it's not mainstream doesn't mean it doesn't exist 

I do agree that as a nation we can be very intolerant of others though.


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## HashRouge (17 December 2017)

sav123 said:



			I didn't mind the Mexican display.
		
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*whispers* They are Chilean, completely different country!


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## sav123 (17 December 2017)

HashRouge said:



			*whispers* They are Chilean, completely different country!
		
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Ooooops, apologies! *blushes*

(In my defence, I was eating nachos at the time of typing, hence Mexico invading my brain!)


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## Notimetoride (17 December 2017)

I was there and saw it.  I too was disappointed.  I thought they would do something pretty amazing but they didn't - just cantered sideways and around some pretty ladies.   Their spurs did catch my eye but I didn't see them come into contact with the horses sides at all.   I just didn't find their demo particularly interesting.


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## pansymouse (18 December 2017)

I didn't particularly enjoy the display but did think the horses looked healthy albeit not thrilled to be doing the display.  The bint in the sticky out dress wailing in the corner was extremely tiresome.


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## Polos Mum (18 December 2017)

I was there Saturday night, the spurs looked like they were made of a flexible material - a bit like a metal snare drum stick - bendy wire rather than solid (if they'd have been solid I don't think they could have used them) the spurs span round a lot and bent when they were used. 
So not as bad as they looked. 
At least 2 of the show jumpers hadn't clipped where their spurs go - I assume so they can use the spurs without leaving a mark/ being so severe. 

It's hard to tell whether they were stressed or really concentrating


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## Fragglerock (18 December 2017)

Notimetoride said:



			I just didn't find their demo particularly interesting.
		
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Ditto - I fast forwarded.  I do it with the Shetlands as well.


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## Maesto's Girl (18 December 2017)

I too found it very samey and actually boring after a while. I was there on Saturday afternoon and a lot of people in the crowd were either looking at phones, talking, or actually just getting up and walking out. I was watching the legs and the spurs and there wasn't a great deal of use so that didn't worry me.


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## asmp (18 December 2017)

Well I enjoyed it while I was at Olympia but that's because I own a horse imported from South America and was the spitting image of the one the girl was riding!  The breed are great all rounders and it was good to see what they were bred for.  However, I can see why people did find it boring compared to the more usual exciting displays.


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## Orangehorse (18 December 2017)

catwithclaws said:



			Personally I enjoyed the display - i enjoy seeing different traditions and different styles of riding and training horses. I think actually as a nation we are really quite intolerant of others ways and we have no traditions worth mentioning - if someone asked me what British traditional dancing and singing was I'd be hard pressed to think of anything other than drunken idiots twerking to nicki minaj on a Saturday night.

Just because something is different it doesn't make it wrong. Horses there and in many other parts of the world are there to do a job, they're not 'pets' like they seem to be here. I didn't see anything to make me uncomfortable, they all rode with loose reins, spurs looked decorational and they all had very quiet seats. The horses were fast, compact, extremely well muscled and were never going to look or move like anything we would consider 'normal'
		
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How I agree with you.  My horse is an American breed and although I ride him in English style, it has been a very steep learning curve, but nevertheless very interesting to see different sorts of equitation.  The reaction that most English people have is to dismiss and vilefy anything that looks different.  I was told by someone that they "abhor" saddleseat - why?  It is just a riding style developed to show off certain breeds and needs as much skill and finesse as other styles.
Similarly the western style, or working animals like the display -  we are too ready to dismiss anything that isn't familiar

I went on a riding holiday in Montana and the guides were constantly telling the riders from England to let go of the horse's head and not ride with a contact, and most of them were in bitless bridles too.  A working horse needs as little interference from the rider as possible to let it carry out its job, just as the rider needs instant reaction from the horse from the aids.

As for dancing - how about Morris?


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## stormox (18 December 2017)

Orangehorse said:



			How I agree with you.  My horse is   I was told by someone that they "abhor" saddleseat - why?  It is just a riding style developed to show off certain breeds and needs as much skill and finesse as other styles.
Similarly the western style, or working animals like the display -
		
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Excuse my ignorance but what is 'saddleseat'? If its what they do on saddlebreds and tennessee walking horses I am with the one who abhors it- because of the soring and heavy weighted shoes and blocks. Not because of the riding style.


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## Tiddlypom (18 December 2017)

Saddleseat? This?






.

Hideous :eek3:


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## case895 (18 December 2017)

I went last night and was in the champagne bar when they were on.


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## Orangehorse (18 December 2017)

stormox said:



			Excuse my ignorance but what is 'saddleseat'? If its what they do on saddlebreds and tennessee walking horses I am with the one who abhors it- because of the soring and heavy weighted shoes and blocks. Not because of the riding style.
		
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Saddleseat is nothing to do with weighted shoes and soring - that is an aberration of the Walking Horse circuit.  Saddleseat is to ride to show off the elevated steps (natural) and great activity of the horse, and needs very strong core strength to keep in balance with the horse and using the lightest of aids so it looks as though the horse is doing it by himself.  

Just as there are some less than perfect dressage riding, there will be less than perfect any other sort of riding.


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## stormox (18 December 2017)

Orangehorse if you could link to a video of a pleasing saddlehorse competition where theres been no platform shoes, no soring, no chains, no weighted shoes, i would love to see it. Because everything I have seen about the winning horses in these competitions screams 'cruelty'.


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## Xtra (18 December 2017)

Saw this the other night and turned away to work on laptop.  on again tonight and non horsey parents I am staying with just now were oohing and aaahin over the police. when I mentioned the Chilean display they said they had turned over.  I wasn't overly concerned for horses though just think it was a bad choice for display.  I am not seeing close from telly though


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## Abi90 (18 December 2017)

Completely non horsey husband said "those horses don't look very happy"


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## laura_nash (18 December 2017)

catwithclaws said:



			Personally I enjoyed the display - i enjoy seeing different traditions and different styles of riding and training horses. I think actually as a nation we are really quite intolerant of others ways and we have no traditions worth mentioning - if someone asked me what British traditional dancing and singing was I'd be hard pressed to think of anything other than drunken idiots twerking to nicki minaj on a Saturday night.
		
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I agree that we can be very intolerant of others way, particularly in the horse world.  

We DO have plenty of traditions though, in all four nations, and there is a lot of traditional dancing and singing available.  We maybe don't emphasise it as much at big events etc as some other nations, possibly because a lot of mainstream music is also British, but I would not be at all hard-pressed to think of any - I have an MP3 player full of folk music, old and modern, and was having a go at Morris and clog dancing at a wedding reception less than a month ago.


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## Cortez (18 December 2017)

Orangehorse said:



			Saddleseat is nothing to do with weighted shoes and soring - that is an aberration of the Walking Horse circuit.  Saddleseat is to ride to show off the elevated steps (natural) and great activity of the horse, and needs very strong core strength to keep in balance with the horse and using the lightest of aids so it looks as though the horse is doing it by himself.  

Just as there are some less than perfect dressage riding, there will be less than perfect any other sort of riding.
		
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Really? Where have you seen that? When I was working out of a TWH and Saddlebred barn in Kentucky I witnessed some of the most horrific practises I've ever seen in a very long life with horses all over the world.


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## JFTDWS (18 December 2017)

I found it less disturbing than most dressage, to be honest.  I do think this is largely a case of intolerance of things which are different.


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## OldNag (18 December 2017)

stormox said:



			Orangehorse if you could link to a video of a pleasing saddlehorse competition where theres been no platform shoes, no soring, no chains, no weighted shoes, i would love to see it. Because everything I have seen about the winning horses in these competitions screams 'cruelty'.
		
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Look at some Morgans being ridden saddleseat , especially Pleasure.


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## TwyfordM (19 December 2017)

I was watching very closely to start with as i thought horses looked stressed ...
What i saw was barely there contact with the reins, riding totally from the seat, not much use of the spurs. Performing stunts at that speed and agility in front of a huge crowd when they've literally travelled half way around the world and have probably been cooped up in stables the entire time, is more likely the cause of the stressed look IMO, horses were in fantastic shape, well trained and knew their job.
Was a tad boring, and met ride was much better but you have to remember the training police horses get for the job means any crowd/loud/unexpected are not something that bothers them!


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## Doormouse (19 December 2017)

I was lucky enough to have a stables pass yesterday afternoon during the interval and I saw all the horses from the display going back to their stables, my daughter was allowed to pat one much to her joy! They past within 2 feet of me, they all looked fabulous, the only marks I could see was a light ruffle of the hair on a couple from spurs. The bits up close are far less severe than the police horse bits and there was decidedly less hauling on them too during the display.

They are small horses, very compact and muscular with short necks, they all looked relaxed and happy to me.

It might be worth remembering that Jean Francois Pignon's horses all have their ears back during a display, I think that horses will often do this when they are concentrating. Also interested having that display very close up, his grey horses have a thin metal wire around their necks which could be construed as unkind perhaps?

Lorenzo' horses often look from a distance far from happy but close to appear well and quite relaxed.

I would think that if most of our English riders tried to recreate this with our horses they would look extremely unhappy as we would be unable to ride half as well and our horses would not have the level of training either.

Yes, not the most exciting display and I thought the most impressive bit was the dancing without tripping over those spurs!

Yes, it wasn't the


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## fburton (19 December 2017)

Doormouse said:



			It might be worth remembering that Jean Francois Pignon's horses all have their ears back during a display, I think that horses will often do this when they are concentrating.
		
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I'd love to see (more) research into this. I can understand why horses would direct their ears towards things/people they want to hear; generalized 'pinning' (even if the horses are otherwise relaxed) isn't the same.


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## MotherOfChickens (19 December 2017)

I didnt see them but have seen many other displays there over the years. I am not sure its possible to do these displays with no signs of stress in the horses ever. Olympia is small, the crowds are very close. when it comes to high school for example, I am not sure the Airs can be performed with totally relaxed horses and remember these people are under pressure to deliver something, they dont necessarily have the luxury of just putting the horse away for another day. the type of horses used in these displays tend to be quite hot as well-Lorenzo uses lusos.
that said, I am not defending the right that these displays to necessarily exist anymore and they may not, as public opnion shifts. seems to me to be a slippery slope though, I doubt that the horses mentioned had a harder time of it than those jumping the GP course. I too can't watch most dressage these days-there's alot of tension in that too.


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## ester (19 December 2017)

I enjoyed it every time I saw it (3 times) I thought it was great to see what they got out of the ponies with a totally different style of riding and that the display really showed how they would move to work cattle. It was much better than some of the displays I have seen at olympia over the last few years. I thought they tried to put on a great show, I didn't consider the singer 'waily' at all and thought it fab they brought musicians rather than using some club type music as is often the norm. I did wonder at what point they had done the dancing auditions for the male riders  as I am sure they would rather have been on horse rather than the chilean version of morris dancing. I hope we get some more displays from further afield in years to come.


doormouse what bits were they using?


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## MotherOfChickens (19 December 2017)

I've just watched the promo video of them on FB, I liked it, super wee horses.


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## ester (19 December 2017)

some of them really weren't unlike a welsh cob . I think wiki mentions there ability to go sideways and that they are hardy/don't need to eat much and if sick get better quickly!


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## MotherOfChickens (19 December 2017)

ester said:



			some of them really weren't unlike a welsh cob .
		
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no, exactly what I thought. probably have better brains though  *runs and hides*


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## ester (19 December 2017)

'courage to confront and pin belligerent cattle'

you mean they didn't go arghh a killer hanky  

I'm well up for this apparent flirting technique, I think hanky waving seems much less open to interpretation than a conversation


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## MotherOfChickens (19 December 2017)

ester said:



			I'm well up for this apparent flirting technique, I think hanky waving seems much less open to interpretation than a conversation 

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give it a try and let me know how you get on!


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## milliepops (19 December 2017)

ester said:



			'courage to confront and pin belligerent cattle'

you mean they didn't go arghh a killer hanky  

i'm well up for this apparent flirting technique, i think hanky waving seems much less open to interpretation than a conversation :d
		
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:d :d :d :d :d :d :d
^^
Ghost in the machine obv
I've corrected those ds to Ds twice now.

kind of lost the moment now, but I really did giggle at killer hankys.


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## pansymouse (19 December 2017)

MotherOfChickens said:



			no, exactly what I thought. probably have better brains though  *runs and hides*
		
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Mine often canters sideways without me having to even ask


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## BBP (19 December 2017)

I think my favorites to watch were the 4 in hand driving horses, all fit and lean and from what i saw had there ears sharply forwards and appeared to be enjoying every minute of it!  They go round those courses faster than I would ride round probably!


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## stormox (19 December 2017)

KatPT said:



			I think my favorites to watch were the 4 in hand driving horses, all fit and lean and from what i saw had there ears sharply forwards and appeared to be enjoying every minute of it!  They go round those courses faster than I would ride round probably!
		
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Having been involved in FEI driving when the obstacles (then called hazards, but apparantly not pc to say that now as it infers danger  ) were more natural and set on the marathon, and cones were just cones, I think there is way too much twisting and turning, yanking and pulling round the tight corners on too tight a course.
Although I do love seeing a team going in unision, and a four in hand well driven (coachman style - Im old fashioned)  is an amazing spectacle.


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## MotherOfChickens (19 December 2017)

pansymouse said:



			Mine often canters sideways without me having to even ask 

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## DD (19 December 2017)

am watching on iplayer. the Chilians are fanatic, love them, and the Police , the carriage  drivers. Brilliant.


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## Landcruiser (19 December 2017)

Both my horses are Criollos, from Uraguy. One of them is ex cattle horse, and can canter sideways in his sleep - or he could before he retired early due to being totally knackered by a harsh breaking and being harshly overworked worked over there. His head carriage was like those ponies too, and it took a long time to relax him, and he's got terrible scars.
 So I watched with mixed feelings. They are wonderful, clever, sensitive, agile and powerful ponies and it's great to see them working. But I also know what they have probably gone through to be where they are. 

The display itself was a bit dud, and I didn't like the sudden stops on what was clearly not a suitable surface. But it did show a little of what the ponies are capable of, and one of the ponies looked just like one of my boys


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## milliepops (19 December 2017)

ester said:



			doormouse what bits were they using?
		
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still can't really see very well but this just popped up on FB






looks like there's some kind of curb strap and v short shanks


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## ester (19 December 2017)

Do you mean outdoors stormox? obviously that still happens but this is to bring it indoors during the winter and get it a bit more high profile. It is a very tight arena to get it into at olympia compared to some of other locations which can be a bit more open, but then that means that different locations suit different teams which is good . But arguably the obstacles are only as tight as the drivers opt to drive them  same as outdoors. I was watching with rara which always helps and we picked three for our perfect team . 

thanks MP we thought something short shanked but weren't close enough to see, that is a fab picture!


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## stormox (19 December 2017)

Yes Ester. Outdoors. But the obstacles (hazards) have changed there too. Last time i went- at windsor- the obstacles were all man made and very close together. Before they were spread out around the marathon and some were trees or field gates, mounds hills etc. But that was when you had to use the same vehicle for all 3 phases.


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## ester (19 December 2017)

ah yes, I was nosing through some old photos the other day and it did all look more open then, though some of the carriages looked a bit scary to me too!


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## mandyroberts (19 December 2017)

Landcruiser said:



			But I also know what they have probably gone through to be where they are.
		
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My thoughts too


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## rosiesowner (19 December 2017)

Here's an interesting post from the Olympia page:
"The response from the chief vet at The Queens 90th, where the Huasos also performed and where similar concerns were raised can be found here: The Chilean horses are bred for cattle work in the plains and hills of Chile and are of a very specific type. The Huasos are all very experienced horsemen and women and take great care of their animals. The tack used is of soft leather and the bits are very simple. The spurs while very decorative are blunt ending and specifically designed as a &#8220;many spoked wheel&#8221; in order to disperse any pressure upon contact, and to ensure that no pain is inflicted upon the animals.

The movement of the horses during the performance is sometimes in a sideways manner and hence the horses show the whites of their eyes as they rotate their eyes to see. I, myself examined the horses upon their arrival and several times every day during their stay. I , along with my experienced veterinary colleagues, checked them before each performance, supervised them during the shows and checked them afterwards. At no time did the animals seem distressed, either before or after their performance. They did not appear apprehensive when the riders mounted them. We found no evidence of any marking or scarring due to excessive use of spurs or oral lesions as a result of excessive force on bits/tack as you would expect to see if there were issues. The horses all have good fetlocks and tendons and none were on medications and none had to be treated whilst on site."

https://www.facebook.com/OlympiaHorseShow/videos/1463937230328463/


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## Bernster (19 December 2017)

Ah very good find there RO.


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## tristar (19 December 2017)

a strange thing to bring to a country that is the top of the world in dressage

tense and not what i want to see, i hate those rapid twisle tourbillon things


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## Cortez (19 December 2017)

tristar said:



			a strange thing to bring to a country that is the top of the world in dressage

tense and not what i want to see, i hate those rapid twisle tourbillon things
		
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Huh? "Strange"...isn't that sort of the point, as in unusual, not like every other bloddy thing you see endlessly again and again, a different approach, a rare chance to experience how other cultures utilise their horses, a glimpse at history, an exchange of traditions, and so forth. 

And dressage...speaking of tense...Not what I want to see.


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## tristar (19 December 2017)

well i don`t like it.

i don`t see it as unusual, just a down market display of how not to ride a beautiful, elegant, gentle natured, intelligent horse. and those sliding halts are a disgusting exhibition of how not to do a sliding halt

i would not use the word culture in the context of their display and i hope it is `rare` and its `history` is consigned to the dustbin of not very goo as soon as possible.


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## MotherOfChickens (19 December 2017)

tristar said:



			well i don`t like it.

i don`t see it as unusual, just a down market display of how not to ride a beautiful, elegant, gentle natured, intelligent horse. and those sliding halts are a disgusting exhibition of how not to do a sliding halt

i would not use the word culture in the context of their display and i hope it is `rare` and its `history` is consigned to the dustbin of not very goo as soon as possible.
		
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do you feel the same about barrel racing? working equitation? horseball? polo? small ponies jumping big tracks?


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## BBP (19 December 2017)

Im curious about the rolling the eyes to see whilst moving sideways, I thought to the side was the way horses see best?


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## ester (19 December 2017)

Quite, why would we want a dressage diplay? We know all about that. I was well impressed with the lead changes while having your legs in front of your horse's chest. Rather the opposite of the swinging leg aim for the hips dressage version.


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## tristar (19 December 2017)

yeah i would love to read a dressage judges comments if someone did  one of those sliding halts in the arena!


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## JFTDWS (19 December 2017)

Probably similar to if someone freestyled a jump in the middle of a standard test...  Or hung off their horse to pick up a horseball, or got a garrocha pole out and started cantering around it...  Or, y'know, did a move from any other horse sport in the dressage arena...


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## tristar (20 December 2017)

but they don`t do horseball moves or pole work in dressage but they do perform halts


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## SpottyMare (20 December 2017)

tristar said:



			but they don`t do horseball moves or pole work in dressage but they do perform halts
		
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I'm not sure what your point is?  A western rider doing a nice square dressage halt during a reining test wouldn't get very good comments either.  Different styles of riding...


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## DD (20 December 2017)

I loved it .


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## JFTDWS (20 December 2017)

tristar said:



			but they don`t do horseball moves or pole work in dressage but they do perform halts
		
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Not sliding halts though... because they're different sports...


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## ester (20 December 2017)

Regardless, we quite often get 'abrupt to halt' because mine likes to stop, I imagine it would just be 'very abrupt to halt'.


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## Jill's Gym Karma (21 December 2017)

I was at Olympia on Thursday and enjoyed this show, mainly because it was like nothing else I'd seen before. I thought the music, singing and dancing added a totally new element, but maybe that's a bit too cultured and "unhorsey" for the target audience.

Aside from police horses (and the Met ride was truly stunning this year), we don't really have true "working horses" in this country anymore, so it was fascinating to see a breed and riding style that's evolved for a unique terrain and particular job. I've been to a rodeo in the States and really enjoyed seeing a totally different riding style. Cowhands spend hours/days in the saddle on unfamiliar ground and have complete trust in their mounts in sudden and dangerous situations; we could learn a lot from their approach to horsemanship.


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## fburton (21 December 2017)

KatPT said:



			Im curious about the rolling the eyes to see whilst moving sideways, I thought to the side was the way horses see best?
		
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I suspect that depends what kind of seeing. When horses look at something in front of them, they use their eyes very similarly to ours, in binocular fashion i.e. using both eyes at the same time and focusing the image on to a region of the retina with a higher density of receptors - though the area they can scan binocularly without moving their head is much more limited than ours. However, their monocular / sideways vision is also highly functional. Whereas we humans have a roughly circular region of high receptor density, horses' extend along a streak with a (normally) horizontal orientation that matches their elongated iris.

We don't know for sure, but it seems likely from their behaviour that they prefer to use their binocular vision to attend to objects of interest or perceived importance, where possible. (This capability may vary between breeds that have different shaped skulls.) On the other hand, detection of potential predators is mainly done using their extensive 'peripheral' vision. Since it's likely they use this mode of seeing more actively than we do, 'peripheral' may not be the best name for it.


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## miss_c (21 December 2017)

ester said:



			some of them really weren't unlike a welsh cob
		
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There was one that reminded me so much of Genie!!


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## ester (21 December 2017)

Maybe a few of us should have a holiday at some point


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## Shantara (22 December 2017)

I've noticed a few people have mentioned it might have been a bit too cultured or suggest that it might have just gone over the heads of us uncultured swine, in a very patronising manner. 
I do not think that's the case at all. I, for one, love other cultures and would love to see more of them at events like Olympia, who I believe is very good at giving us exciting performances from people from all over the world. However, I just didn't enjoy this particular performance. It wasn't bad, it just wasn't as exciting as I think we've been spoilt with over the years.


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## ester (22 December 2017)

Oh I don't think we've been that spoilt, the dude with the dogs was dire, as was the luso one a few years ago where they only had a couple  of horses and did very little. (the latest lot of lusos were much better). For me there is usually one I really enjoy and one which is a bit of an add on. For instance having seen the royal artillery in a big arena (royal welsh) it is incomparable to what they manage in olympia's small space. Overall I think lots of people like different stuff so it's best to keep it reasonably mixed up as much as they can .


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## Jill's Gym Karma (22 December 2017)

Chan said:



			I've noticed a few people have mentioned it might have been a bit too cultured or suggest that it might have just gone over the heads of us uncultured swine, in a very patronising manner.
		
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"Cultured" was perhaps the wrong word, maybe "arty" would be better. People buy (expensive) tickets for Olympia because they're all into horses; they can't all be expected to be into the same type of music too, therefore any performance with a strong musical element is quite risky. The Chilean show was probably 60:40 horses: singing/dancing, and maybe that wasn't enough "pure horse" entertainment.

I personally find the dog agility stuff really silly and dull as I'm a rare horsey person that's not keen on dogs. It's a tough job booking a range of acts that please everyone.

As a side note, I think it's true that England has no national costume? We don't have such ingrained traditions of dressing up and folk music as many countries, which I think is a shame.


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## ester (22 December 2017)

*cough* 
it was basically morris dancing no?


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## GirlFriday (22 December 2017)

Jill's Gym Karma said:



			As a side note, I think it's true that England has no national costume? We don't have such ingrained traditions of dressing up and folk music as many countries, which I think is a shame.
		
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We actually have a tradition of dressing up _as horses_! https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=hobby+horse+morris+dancing


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## oldie48 (22 December 2017)

Jill's Gym Karma said:



			"Cultured" was perhaps the wrong word, maybe "arty" would be better. People buy (expensive) tickets for Olympia because they're all into horses; they can't all be expected to be into the same type of music too, therefore any performance with a strong musical element is quite risky. The Chilean show was probably 60:40 horses: singing/dancing, and maybe that wasn't enough "pure horse" entertainment.

I personally find the dog agility stuff really silly and dull as I'm a rare horsey person that's not keen on dogs. It's a tough job booking a range of acts that please everyone.

As a side note, I think it's true that England has no national costume? We don't have such ingrained traditions of dressing up and folk music as many countries, which I think is a shame.
		
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Visit Upton Upon Severn in the summer for the folk festival and you'll see hoards of people dressed up as mummers, morris dancers, hobbies, maypole dancers etc. It's quite a sight and there are lots of festivals like this all around the country. Although there are no real horses involved there are jousters putting on displays at various country events. I love dog agility and mush to my amazement, so did Stanley the BT pup, who was glued to the TV standing on two legs to get a closer look!


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## JFTDWS (22 December 2017)

Chan said:



			I've noticed a few people have mentioned it might have been a bit too cultured or suggest that it might have just gone over the heads of us uncultured swine, in a very patronising manner. 
I do not think that's the case at all. I, for one, love other cultures and would love to see more of them at events like Olympia, who I believe is very good at giving us exciting performances from people from all over the world. However, I just didn't enjoy this particular performance. It wasn't bad, it just wasn't as exciting as I think we've been spoilt with over the years.
		
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I don't think there's anything overly patronising in suggesting that Olympia is not exactly a display of high culture - it's always been very much a popular entertainment show, that is largely attended by people who wish to see an entertainment show.  There is nothing wrong with that - it's highly popular and very well attended - but it is what it is...


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## HashRouge (22 December 2017)

Jill's Gym Karma said:



			As a side note, I think it's true that England has no national costume? We don't have such ingrained traditions of dressing up and folk music as many countries, which I think is a shame.
		
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There is a huge folk tradition in the UK. There are a huge number of folk festivals every year where you can go and appreciate just how much these traditions have been kept alive. Yes it's not mainstream, but I'm not sure it has been for a very long time (at least 100 years). As for folk music, I might be biased as I grew up listening to it thanks to my Dad, but I think we have some of the most beautiful folk songs in the world. This is one of my favourites: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpP4WyYvkxc


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