# AI - Thoroughbreds



## Alice100 (12 May 2011)

Hi
Please excuse my ignorance but I just read in a textbook that AI is not allowed in Thoroughbreds - can someone please shed some light on this?

Many thanks


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## tristar (12 May 2011)

true, certainly for racing, maybe not if sporthorses not required to be gsb


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## Aru (12 May 2011)

Racing thoroughbreds cant be bred by A.I.
Helps to not reduce the gene pool by overuse of some stallions apparently.


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## Jake10 (12 May 2011)

I think it guarantees that the correct stud is used (no mix ups)


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## Touchwood (12 May 2011)

It doesn't guarantee the right stud is used.  Us in the sportshorse world have been DNA'ing foals for years, as does Weatherbys, so they can't use that reason!

Racing TB's cannot use AI, but the only reason for this is because certain people in the TB world do not want to move with the times   it is absolute craziness IMO to have these hugely valuable stallions doing natural cover.  No wonder their insurance bills are so high!

Anyway, if you look at the size of some stallions books and do some maths, I'd be very surprised if AI is not done on the quiet anyway.....


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## AMH (12 May 2011)

As someone with a foot in both camps, I think that natural service for racing TBs is sensible in terms of gene pool management. The sporthorse population involves a much larger gene pool with many stubooks all using eachothers animals. With far more choice, the predominance of a few stallions is less likely.

However, I prefer AI as a breeding method. It's nicer for the mare and minimizes the risk of infections, which can have a serious impact on studs.  

The only way I could see AI working for racing TBs is if the stallions book sizes were regulated to ensure that diversity remains.


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## magic104 (12 May 2011)

AMH said:



			As someone with a foot in both camps, I think that natural service for racing TBs is sensible in terms of gene pool management. The sporthorse population involves a much larger gene pool with many stubooks all using eachothers animals. With far more choice, the predominance of a few stallions is less likely.


The only way I could see AI working for racing TBs is if the stallions book sizes were regulated to ensure that diversity remains.
		
Click to expand...

And they cant just limit the covering certs?  It is antiquated and I am surprised they are still living in the dark ages when everything else is so efficient where Weatherbys is concerned.


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## Touchwood (12 May 2011)

Couldn't agree more - they could always limit the size of stallion books, that is not difficult at all.

I despair of it, as in every other way Weatherbys are streets ahead of other studbooks in terms of administration and value for money.  But the natural service thing is absolute cr*p....for want of a better way of describing it.


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## sallyf (13 May 2011)

Apparently one of the bones of contention is that it is illegal to restrict book size under some restriction of trading law which is making things more complicated.


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## welshsporthorse (13 May 2011)

I was told once by a TB breeder that the industry did not want AI as only AI centres and vets would benefit as many TB breeders also make a good living in the season boarding mares ready for walk in services - this I know happens on the outskirts of newmarket, where mares are kept, teased with a teaser then taken for one service to stud. Also studs make a good revenue for keep of mares whilst at studs. I am also of the belief that natural covering using these sometimes very valuable stallions is old school.  I also know for a fact that some studs do collect and inseminate behind closed doors as the stallions would not cope otherwise.


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## Alice100 (13 May 2011)

Thank you everyone for your comments, it is very interesting to hear your opinions


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## Sportznight (13 May 2011)

HA!!  Studs make good revenue from boarding?  On the face of it I can see how this could be thought, but have you ever been around a reputable TB stud?  It costs a bomb to keep them looking the way they do!  Neither man power or machine power come cheaply these days.  We are a large TB stud - 100+ broodmares of our own, a handful board abroad permanently and it is actually more cost effective to do so!

To the OP - there are many, many factors in the argument for and against AI with Racing TB's.  There was a discussion on here not too long ago I think, perhaps a month ago.  Perhaps worth digging out...


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## welshsporthorse (13 May 2011)

Im sure it does Sportznight, and yes i have been to many big TB studs when I lived in Suffolk,  I also run my own commercial stud now. I also know that many a TB stud has closed down or gone into liquidation in the last ten years but unfortunately the important people who seem to uphold these decisions are very much of the old school and will not waiver, and a lot of them dont have to worry about income anyway. Maybe its just the time that people should stop breeding these tbs on such a large scale anyway considering all the considerable wastage . I was told about the AI ing incidently by a member of staff working on a very very renowned and highly financed Irish based TB stud.


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## Sportznight (13 May 2011)

You could say the same for breeding any horse regardless of 'wastage'.  It's just that much easier to track TB's than other breed/type and the numbers bred each year has rapidly declined recently, as I am sure you are aware.  The boarding side of an operation I worked in the US ran at a $1m p/a loss...  It's the standing of stallions and sales of progeny where money is made.  If want to make a small fortune out of horses, start with a large one


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## welshsporthorse (13 May 2011)

Very true Sportznight. One of my stallion owners is a muti millionaire who breeds and has his horses in training so he certainly would not be worried about such losses, probably help him where the tax man is concerned !  I do agree that there are more and more people breeding now than there were 20 years ago, and no doubt accessibility of european stallions by AI has changed the face of British Breeding. I sometimes cant help wondering though if we were just as well off though when we stuck to the British bred TB and its native outcrosses. But thats just me being old fashioned.  We have changed our stud policies hugely these last three years, we only actually have one stallion here now, all the others arrive in polystyrene boxes. No feeding, vaccinating, worming, vet fees, etc etc etc the rest of the year. Lots of people think these stallions make money but there is not much profit in it when you have paid for year round keep.  Sorry going a bit off topic now !


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