# what is a lurcher?



## Jools1234 (31 January 2013)

just wondering (bored) what different people feel fits the bracket of a 'lurcher'?


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## Springy (31 January 2013)

Any greyhound cross ( or so I thought)


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## Enfys (31 January 2013)

Springy said:



			Any greyhound cross ( or so I thought) 

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So did I. 

Although, on thinking about it, perhaps any sight hound cross 
And what about whippet crosses, are they mini lurchers

Does that make them canine anglos or warmbloods then?  

I love lurchers.


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## Springy (31 January 2013)

Lurcher.... big floppy hot water bottle adicted to lying on sofas


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## Jools1234 (31 January 2013)

Springy said:



			Lurcher.... big floppy hot water bottle adicted to lying on sofas  

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like this description but only applies to mine after a good hr or mores running-she is the only dog i have ever allowed on the furniture, and thats because she is so bloody persisitant


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## CorvusCorax (31 January 2013)

Around here it is anything crossed with a greyhound and any such cross is carried out for work.

Used to be obsessed with a book in our local library called 'Lurchers and Longdogs'!!


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## Crackedhalo (31 January 2013)

A lurcher is any sighthound crossed with a non sighthound (eg whippet/bedlington, saluki/collie), A sighthound crossed with a sighthound and nothing else is a longdog (eg Whippet/greyhound, deerhound/Greyhound).


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## Jools1234 (31 January 2013)

Crackedhalo said:



			A lurcher is any sighthound crossed with a non sighthound (eg whippet/bedlington, saluki/collie), A sighthound crossed with a sighthound and nothing else is a longdog (eg Whippet/greyhound, deerhound/Greyhound).
		
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so what about a collie/staffy/greyhound?

or a collie/greyhound + saluki/greyhound?

or is it first cross only in your opinion?


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## s4sugar (31 January 2013)

Crackedhalo said:



			A lurcher is any sighthound crossed with a non sighthound (eg whippet/bedlington, saluki/collie), A sighthound crossed with a sighthound and nothing else is a longdog (eg Whippet/greyhound, deerhound/Greyhound).
		
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Agree and one side should always be pure bred.

When you get multiple crosses it becomes a mutt.


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## horseperson (31 January 2013)

Both are Lurchers  

I have a Greyhound and a Saluki Whippet (long dog)  

Lurchers are a sight hound crossed with any other breed apart from another sight hound as that's a long dog


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## Jools1234 (31 January 2013)

s4sugar said:



			Agree and one side should always be pure bred.

When you get multiple crosses it becomes a mutt.
		
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ok so for you a greyhound X collie/staffy is a lurcher

and a greyhound/collie X greyhound/staffy  is not?


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## s4sugar (31 January 2013)

Jools1234 said:



			ok so for you a greyhound X collie/staffy is a lurcher

and a greyhound/collie X greyhound/staffy  is not?
		
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No - if you add in a bull breed it becomes a mutt or sometimes called a bull lurcher = mutt.

Lurcher = Sighthound x collie or a collie x sighthound back to a collie or another sighthound.

Longdog has only sighthounds in the mix.

Some of the most stunning dogs I've ever met are greyhound x deerhound or bedlington x whippet but backcrossing holds no advantages over using pure breeds.


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## Jools1234 (31 January 2013)

s4sugar said:



			No - if you add in a bull breed it becomes a mutt or sometimes called a bull lurcher = mutt.

Lurcher = Sighthound x collie or a collie x sighthound back to a collie or another sighthound.

Longdog has only sighthounds in the mix.

Some of the most stunning dogs I've ever met are greyhound x deerhound or bedlington x whippet but backcrossing holds no advantages over using pure breeds.
		
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ok so are you saying that only sighthounds and collies can go into the breeding for a lurcher?


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## s4sugar (31 January 2013)

Traditionally yes.


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## Jools1234 (31 January 2013)

interesting!

i am trying to put up some what am i photos


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## Crackedhalo (31 January 2013)

In my opinion both sides can be crossed, one side doesn't have to be pure. 

In my experience lurchers are ofter better when second crosses. I have a pure whippet x staff and a bull greyhound back to a bull greyhound. The second bitch is by far the best, this has generally been my experience. 

A sighthound crossed with any breed of dog is a lurcher, Though obviously if it is bred for purpose it will more often be collies, Terriers etc.


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## eatmyshorts (31 January 2013)

Interesting thread. I have a greyhound X Afghan (i think - he was a rescue so it's a guess plus a suggestion by an Afghan breeder) - i've always just called him a lurcher, even although technically he's a longdog.


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## haycroft (31 January 2013)

Yep agree with crachedhalo
Sight hound x with any other breed or breeds 
sighthound can include 
Whippet ,greyhound,afghan ,wolf n otter hound ,basenji ,
Italian greyhound isn't a sight hound 
Sight hound x sight hound = long dog 
My little foster dog is whippet size about 21 inch but looks like there greyhound in her ,thicker tail ,thicker coat etc 
Btw I hav KC whippets lol 
Lurchers can b rough or smooth n big as a wolfhound n as small as a jrt depending in the cross 
Also alot of lurchers are usually greyhound x boarder collie for speed n agility for working


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## AengusOg (31 January 2013)

CaveCanem said:



			Used to be obsessed with a book in our local library called 'Lurchers and Longdogs'!!
		
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'Rogues and Running Dogs' is a good read as well.


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## Jools1234 (31 January 2013)

http://s1305.beta.photobucket.com/user/tappet1/library/

hope you can see it?

so what are peoples opinions?

what am i?
a lurcher or not?
what is my breeding?


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## Jools1234 (31 January 2013)

wolf and otter hounds, sight hounds?


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## Alec Swan (31 January 2013)

I've never understood the distinctions which are offered up which would advise that there's a difference between a Lurcher,  and a Longdog.  They are one and the same animal,  in my view,  despite what Plummer or Walsh may say!  

The name Lurcher,  so I understand, came from those greyhounds which used their brains and ran cunning.  Their only intent was on killing the hare,  and as they were actually racing,  such a dog was of little use.  Such a dog was,  however,  of use to the man who wasn't concerned with points,  but with killing hares.

Lurchers,  and again these are my views,  need to be bred with the speed underneath,  in other words,  the dam needs to be the Greyhound,  or the whippet,  or the Saluki (if you must),  and the covering dog can be just about anything.  The combinations are endless,  and some are unlikely.  I once had a GSD/Greyhound dog,  who was perhaps,  my ideal.

If the Greyhound is to be the dam,  then using a dog as the sire,  which has no pace and/or no brain,  is a waist of time.  Greyhound/Bedlington,  Greyhound/Deerhound (though they can all so often get up to 28",  which I think's a bit big).  Perhaps the best cross that I've seen which has been _Consistent_,  is the Greyhound bitch which is put to a Collie/Greyhound (or just about anything/Greyhound) dog.

Strangely,  and there will be those who don't agree with me,  for a proper dog,  one side of the equation needs to be a purebred dog,  of speed.  It's very rarely that a Lurcher/Lurcher works,  as the puppies end up too heavy.

A quick thought about Salukis;  they are distance dogs and will follow their hare for 1000 yards,  and more.  They have remarkable stamina.  Many seem to think that Greyhounds are stupid,  they're anything but.  Salukis,  however,  are of little use,  in the thinking department!

Alec.


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## planete (31 January 2013)

Interesting.  I have a saluki/greyhound (dam) x pure whippet  and a mostly saluki foster.  The whippet cross is stronger, faster and turns quicker, he also has brains and can work things out for himself without ever going scatty.  So far the mostly salukix  falls into ditches and dips in the ground, slips on the turns and runs into the house when the terrier and the lurcher are ratting.  He is lovely but very blond!


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## whorls (31 January 2013)

Springy said:



			Lurcher.... big floppy hot water bottle adicted to lying on sofas  

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Jools1234 said:



			like this description but only applies to mine after a good hr or mores running-she is the only dog i have ever allowed on the furniture, and thats because she is so bloody persisitant
		
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Oh I can relate to this! Our family dog is a complete PITA when it comes to lying on the sofa, or bed, or even just all over you if she can 

This has been interesting reading - we have had M since she was a puppy and she is apparently a lab X collie (mum was a lab) although literally everyone we meet describes her as a lurcher. But from what has been said on here she cannot be a lurcher if her mum was a lab?

Also - how do people cope with recall and their lurchers? M is very hit and miss, and not because she doesn't understand because the little madam certainly can do it when she feels like it. We are hoping that she will grow out of it? (She is 20 months).


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## Jools1234 (31 January 2013)

Alec Swan said:



			I've never understood the distinctions which are offered up which would advise that there's a difference between a Lurcher,  and a Longdog.  They are one and the same animal,  in my view,  despite what Plummer or Walsh may say!  

The name Lurcher,  so I understand, came from those greyhounds which used their brains and ran cunning.  Their only intent was on killing the hare,  and as they were actually racing,  such a dog was of little use.  Such a dog was,  however,  of use to the man who wasn't concerned with points,  but with killing hares.

Lurchers,  and again these are my views,  need to be bred with the speed underneath,  in other words,  the dam needs to be the Greyhound,  or the whippet,  or the Saluki (if you must),  and the covering dog can be just about anything.  The combinations are endless,  and some are unlikely.  I once had a GSD/Greyhound dog,  who was perhaps,  my ideal.

If the Greyhound is to be the dam,  then using a dog as the sire,  which has no pace and/or no brain,  is a waist of time.  Greyhound/Bedlington,  Greyhound/Deerhound (though they can all so often get up to 28",  which I think's a bit big).  Perhaps the best cross that I've seen which has been _Consistent_,  is the Greyhound bitch which is put to a Collie/Greyhound (or just about anything/Greyhound) dog.

Strangely,  and there will be those who don't agree with me,  for a proper dog,  one side of the equation needs to be a purebred dog,  of speed.  It's very rarely that a Lurcher/Lurcher works,  as the puppies end up too heavy.

A quick thought about Salukis;  they are distance dogs and will follow their hare for 1000 yards,  and more.  They have remarkable stamina.  Many seem to think that Greyhounds are stupid,  they're anything but.  Salukis,  however,  are of little use,  in the thinking department!

Alec.
		
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so alec, in my pictures on page 2 what sort/type/breeding would you say you say dog is?


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## Jools1234 (31 January 2013)

whorls said:



			Oh I can relate to this! Our family dog is a complete PITA when it comes to lying on the sofa, or bed, or even just all over you if she can 

This has been interesting reading - we have had M since she was a puppy and she is apparently a lab X collie (mum was a lab) although literally everyone we meet describes her as a lurcher. But from what has been said on here she cannot be a lurcher if her mum was a lab?

Also - how do people cope with recall and their lurchers? M is very hit and miss, and not because she doesn't understand because the little madam certainly can do it when she feels like it. We are hoping that she will grow out of it? (She is 20 months).
		
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no a lab cross collie is not a lurcher,but i would be interested to see what she looks like if people think she is one. can you put a picture up?


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## whorls (31 January 2013)

Jools1234 said:



			no a lab cross collie is not a lurcher,but i would be interested to see what she looks like if people think she is one. can you put a picture up?
		
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Here you go Jools (hope this works). 

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j177/Kayem_1982/Maisie/DSCF5806_zps158d56a1.jpg

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j177/Kayem_1982/Maisie/DSCF4592_zpsfa97c916.jpg

As a puppy - 

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j177/Kayem_1982/Maisie/DSCF4579_zpsdaecc139.jpg

And just as an example - 

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j177/Kayem_1982/Maisie/photo2_zps7faf6f32.jpg


What do you think?


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## Jools1234 (31 January 2013)

it does not look anything like a lab cross collie to me, but yes i would say it is a lurcher. v pretty


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## whorls (31 January 2013)

Jools1234 said:



			it does not look anything like a lab cross collie to me, but yes i would say it is a lurcher. v pretty
		
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We agree with you! What would you say parents were?


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## Arizahn (31 January 2013)

Whorls, your dog may be a lab cross smooth coated collie. My dog is australian kelpie crossed with smooth coated collie, and he is very lurcher like about the head! But I met both his parents, and his appearance makes sense.

The smooth coat collie is a big, tall, lanky dog - completely different to the border collie. Smooth coats are the short hair version of the popular "Lassie dog" which is a rough coated collie. The breed was apparently originally made by crossing border collies to russian wolfhounds in the Victorian era. 

So, very technically speaking, smooth coated and rough coated collies alike should count as lurchers, as russian wolfhounds are sighthounds!


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## Arizahn (31 January 2013)

Sorry, just get a bit fed up myself whenever people say "oh that's a nice greyhound!"...not all collies are border collies, and even borders range in their appearance! They aren't all fluffy - many are short haired - and they can have surprisingly long legs, which I don't think people notice on the fluffier coated ones.


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## whorls (31 January 2013)

Arizahn said:



			Whorls, your dog may be a lab cross smooth coated collie. My dog is australian kelpie crossed with smooth coated collie, and he is very lurcher like about the head! But I met both his parents, and his appearance makes sense.

The smooth coat collie is a big, tall, lanky dog - completely different to the border collie. Smooth coats are the short hair version of the popular "Lassie dog" which is a rough coated collie. The breed was apparently originally made by crossing border collies to russian wolfhounds in the Victorian era. 

So, very technically speaking, smooth coated and rough coated collies alike should count as lurchers, as russian wolfhounds are sighthounds!
		
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We did think that (and I do think build wise she is very similar to the smooth coated collies we have seen). She also has some merle in her she has dark spots on her body. However her coat doesn't match up as it is quite rough (although quite short hair as well). Otherwise known as a total scruff! The pictures don't really show how scruffy she is. I don't know if she would pick up that kind of coat from either a smooth coated collie or lab?

She's a very odd dog!


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## Arizahn (31 January 2013)

The smooth coat collie is probably where the coat came from. Mine is really smooth, but has a plume for a tail and a tufty ruff round his neck! He started out with a short thin coat, then went slightly bald on his tummy, then grew in another thin but coarse feeling coat, and now has his proper adult coat - I hope! If you were to run your hand over his back, the hair would feel wiry to the touch, but his ruff is velvety soft and fluffy.


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## Jools1234 (31 January 2013)

whorls said:



			We did think that (and I do think build wise she is very similar to the smooth coated collies we have seen). She also has some merle in her she has dark spots on her body. However her coat doesn't match up as it is quite rough (although quite short hair as well). Otherwise known as a total scruff! The pictures don't really show how scruffy she is. I don't know if she would pick up that kind of coat from either a smooth coated collie or lab?

She's a very odd dog!
		
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bearded collies are very popular in lurcher breeding and the facial markings are typical, i would say bearded collie/border collie/greyhound


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## Arizahn (1 February 2013)

I have seen a few collie cross labs with funny coats...I think you are more likely to get throwback traits from crosses. Labs have a lot of different breeds in their ancestry, as the people who imported the original dogs outcrossed to other dogs to maintain diversity at times. Newfoundlands were used, and iirc spaniels too.

Oops, sorry - off topic!


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## Alec Swan (1 February 2013)

Jools1234 said:



			so alec, in my pictures on page 2 what sort/type/breeding would you say you say dog is?
		
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When I looked at your photobucket pics an hour or so ago,  they loaded.  Now they wont!!  So I'm relying upon memory.  I'd say that the dog in the pic,  may well be of Greyhound on one side,  and the other being half bred Greyhound,  and looking at his (is he male?) rather hard eye that there's a bull breed of some sort,  possibly a staff.  I can't remember what the dog's ears looked like,  so often a good indication of breeding.

It's true that with some dogs,  the route which their breeding has taken,  will be obvious.  Others,  such as yours could well be a part bred GSD,  as it sometimes isn't immediately obvious about their parentage.  I can't see the pics now,  for some reason,  and I only gave them a cursory glance.  Do you know the answer to your question?

Another thought about the breeding of Lurchers,  is that when the desired results are achieved,  then it's time to go back and do it again.  It's unusual for an archetypal and beautiful cross bred bitch,  to be put to a similarly crossbred mate,  and for the puppies to replicate their parents.  They're almost invariably too heavy,  and start to regress back to the non-sight-hound lineage.  There may well be examples which deny this,  so don't shoot me now,  that's what I think!!  

Alec.


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## Jools1234 (1 February 2013)

Alec Swan said:



			When I looked at your photobucket pics an hour or so ago,  they loaded.  Now they wont!!  So I'm relying upon memory.  I'd say that the dog in the pic,  may well be of Greyhound on one side,  and the other being half bred Greyhound,  and looking at his (is he male?) rather hard eye that there's a bull breed of some sort,  possibly a staff.  I can't remember what the dog's ears looked like,  so often a good indication of breeding.

It's true that with some dogs,  the route which their breeding has taken,  will be obvious.  Others,  such as yours could well be a part bred GSD,  as it sometimes isn't immediately obvious about their parentage.  I can't see the pics now,  for some reason,  and I only gave them a cursory glance.  Do you know the answer to your question?

Another thought about the breeding of Lurchers,  is that when the desired results are achieved,  then it's time to go back and do it again.  It's unusual for an archetypal and beautiful cross bred bitch,  to be put to a similarly crossbred mate,  and for the puppies to replicate their parents.  They're almost invariably too heavy,  and start to regress back to the non-sight-hound lineage.  There may well be examples which deny this,  so don't shoot me now,  that's what I think!!  

Alec.
		
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she is 12th generation lurcher to lurcher, 1/12 collie, 1/16 staffy the rest is greyhound. the reason i asked is i have  raced and shown her a fair bit and the chap who bred her works, races and shows his dogs and 6 people have approached me over the years asking if she is one of his dogs cos she is so true to his type


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## elsielouise (1 February 2013)

Please can I join in? We have what the rescue centre thought is a lab cross grey. Vet and rescue think so and mostly because she has come out on the heavy side she was abandoned with her litter mate.

According to local lurcher people and the greyhound experts round here, is not uncommon for unscrupulous breeders to dump an F1 Lab cross grey if too heavy as they only want the lightest pups from the litter for breeding for lamping etc. Is this likely in people's opinion? She was dumped at about ten weeks with her brother who looked a lot more greyhound type. The rescue (RGT) said also the 'speed  underneath' approach may be why he was dumped but almost certainly the two of them where just surplus to requirements and the breeder will have just kept what they wanted. They where both in good condition when dumped and appear to have been well handled and not traumatised.' 


Seems odd to me to raise them then just dump tho.

She is absolutely beautiful and quite possibly the most laid back and gentle dog I have ever known, even at adolescent age but is quite a lot chunkier than my ex racers.

Ahhhh cant upload my picture now.... Will try later.


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## Jools1234 (1 February 2013)

lots of lurchers get dumped if they are not good workers but in all my years with them i have never knowingly meet a lab cross greyhound that has been bred by the 'unscrupulous' crowd, they dont tend to be keen on labs, so photos would be good if/when you can


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## Alec Swan (1 February 2013)

Jools1234 said:



			she is 12th generation lurcher to lurcher, 1/12 collie, 1/16 staffy the rest is greyhound. the reason i asked is i have  raced and shown her a fair bit and the chap who bred her works, races and shows his dogs and 6 people have approached me over the years asking if she is one of his dogs cos she is so true to his type
		
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Perhaps those dogs which carry a high enough percentage of one particular breed,  on both sides of the history,  and in the case of yours Greyhound,  have the ability to stick more to type,  when they're bred.  That was,  I suppose,  how every breed of dog evolved,  wasn't it?

What ever it is,  if you find a system which works,  you stick with it! 

Alec.


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## Faro (1 February 2013)

Bedlington Whippet lurcher.  About as small as lurchers come (18.5" TTS).  10 kilos.  In this particular cross the Beddie has been very dominant, but when the coat is wet, the whippety build becomes much more evident.  Speed and turning agility second to none, very soft mouthed, recall pretty good - but Ronnie's just not got what it takes to be a working lurcher (hence he's my much loved pet!)


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## Irishdan (1 February 2013)

Alec Swan said:



			I've never understood the distinctions which are offered up which would advise that there's a difference between a Lurcher,  and a Longdog.  They are one and the same animal,  in my view,  despite what Plummer or Walsh may say!  

The name Lurcher,  so I understand, came from those greyhounds which used their brains and ran cunning.  Their only intent was on killing the hare,  and as they were actually racing,  such a dog was of little use.  Such a dog was,  however,  of use to the man who wasn't concerned with points,  but with killing hares.

Lurchers,  and again these are my views,  need to be bred with the speed underneath,  in other words,  the dam needs to be the Greyhound,  or the whippet,  or the Saluki (if you must),  and the covering dog can be just about anything.  The combinations are endless,  and some are unlikely.  I once had a GSD/Greyhound dog,  who was perhaps,  my ideal.

If the Greyhound is to be the dam,  then using a dog as the sire,  which has no pace and/or no brain,  is a waist of time.  Greyhound/Bedlington,  Greyhound/Deerhound (though they can all so often get up to 28",  which I think's a bit big).  Perhaps the best cross that I've seen which has been _Consistent_,  is the Greyhound bitch which is put to a Collie/Greyhound (or just about anything/Greyhound) dog.

Strangely,  and there will be those who don't agree with me,  for a proper dog,  one side of the equation needs to be a purebred dog,  of speed.  It's very rarely that a Lurcher/Lurcher works,  as the puppies end up too heavy.

A quick thought about Salukis;  they are distance dogs and will follow their hare for 1000 yards,  and more.  They have remarkable stamina.  Many seem to think that Greyhounds are stupid,  they're anything but.  Salukis,  however,  are of little use,  in the thinking department!

Alec.
		
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Oh Alec Swan, you really have upset my other half with your last statement!!  We currently have four pure Salukis amongst out pack and I can promise you they have an awful lot of brain power both in the hunting field and the home


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## Alec Swan (1 February 2013)

Irishdan said:



			Oh Alec Swan, you really have upset my other half with your last statement!!  We currently have four pure Salukis amongst out pack and I can promise you they have an awful lot of brain power both in the hunting field and the home  

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Well the answer to that's simple,  don't show the post to him/her. 
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Please! 

I generally say,  when I make apparently sweeping statements,  that "These are only my opinions"!!

Alec.


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## AengusOg (1 February 2013)

Irishdan said:



			Oh Alec Swan, you really have upset my other half with your last statement!!  We currently have four pure Salukis amongst out pack and I can promise you they have an awful lot of brain power both in the hunting field and the home  

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I can vouch for that as I know Irishdan's dogs.

I have had lots of lurchers over the years, but the two I remember as being the best hare dogs were out of a three quarter grew/collie to a saluki dog. They were fast, would use their nose and hunt up by day but not on the lamp, and were about 26 ins. They read hares very well and had terrific stamina. On a calm night they would just lie about the house, but if the wind got up they would pace and whine.


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## Clodagh (1 February 2013)

I have a saluki x whippet x maybe a smidge of something else bitch. She is 23" (Ideal height IMO) and an absolute killing machine. In the days when hunting was legal she could kill anything from a rat to a muntjak. She tried with a fallow buck but did lose and was never game enough to fox, she would bowl them but then leap away when they went for her.
She will retrieve to hand, hunts up with her nose and will run all day but she is a dit dim and hopeless to rabbits.
She is old now and the chassis has done too many miles, anything bar a mixy rabbit is pretty safe now!
A friend has a deerhound x whippet and it thinks the hunt out, it will stalk to between the squirrel and the tree, now that is clever and Tash has never mnaged anything like that.


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## ribbons (1 February 2013)

I have to agree with Alec on the saluki subject. I had one years ago. Beautiful dog, but as thick as a brick.


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## Irishdan (1 February 2013)

ribbons said:



			I have to agree with Alec on the saluki subject. I had one years ago. Beautiful dog, but as thick as a brick.
		
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Was it really??  They certainly dont have the trainability factor compared to a lot of breeds.  Fiercely independant but you need to be able to tap into their mindset.  All of ours are as sharp as tacks.  My Beardie lurcher on the other hand........:/


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## Alec Swan (1 February 2013)

Irishdan,

I spent some time in Iraq,  and it was there that they had Salukis.  Strange dogs they were,  too.  Though I was accustomed to difficult dogs at the time,  it took me some while to get around even the more bid-able,  and the more haughty and aloof males,  never would have anything to do with me.  The Arab man explained that I didn't smell as he did,  and in that was the resistance.  He may have been right.

The desert dogs didn't seem to resemble ours,  and they seemed to have more heart.  When they said NO,  they meant it!

I once had a half bred bitch here in the UK,  and on windy days,  with the house windows open,  she'd loop her foot over her ears.  In the desert I saw desert dogs doing the same thing,  and the Arab said that it was to keep the blowing sand out of their ears.  I'd be interested,  do any of yours display this strange and presumably inherited behaviour?

Alec.


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## Dobiegirl (1 February 2013)

Thats interesting what you say about the ears, all my Dobes would flick their eyes over prior to going into hunting mode, if Im quick I could/can premept that and put them on the lead. I  suspected they picked something up on the wind.


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## Goldenstar (2 February 2013)

ribbons said:



			I have to agree with Alec on the saluki subject. I had one years ago. Beautiful dog, but as thick as a brick.[/

My mum has one dim does not cover it .
		
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## CAYLA (3 February 2013)

Im not an expert (I guess you dont have to be, we are talking x breed here), owned enough/own enough (as pets) and do have my thoughts on what a lurcher is, and some of the crosses that are made up and classed as lurchers for the experiment of it boils my urine in some cases to be honest, just an excuse to breed mutts and claim they where " unique" and will  make fantastic lurchers/working dogs I guess and make £80 a pup and have them turn into a useless monstrocity in most cases. (although) go on to make good pets once rehomed from the rescue they land in and free ads paper.

I would class and have always been led to believe a lurcher is a sight hound x working breed (although) that obs quite a selection, i only really class bedlingtons or collie types crossed with sight hounds as true lurchers. A sight hound x sighthound is just that. I never call my whippet x grey a lurcher, but I do call our shaggy deerhound/collie x greyhound/bedlington boy as a lurcher.
I dont actually like the crossing of bull breeds (sure it makes a good killing machine) with stamina and less likely to suffer injury or break but I still dont like to see them classed as lurchers, esp not a 1st cross where it is very evident what they are. 
I have a bully x greyhound and she is just a x breed really, built like a machine, has "kill" on the brain and is indestructible. She was a discarded dog like alot of bully crosses breed (as lurchers) 
No doubt you have dogs that are for long/short bursts of speed that needed the extra bulk added in to prevent constant breakage and rippage so we bred sterdy dogs in and crate stamina and lessen the likely hood of injury (I can understand all that) but with some its just taken to far imo.

OH gives me alot of "useless info" the kind I reply "oh, i will sleep better tonight knowing that". He likes to read and learn all the time (unlike me) lol, and he told me this (obs he read it). 
He has worked his lurcher for about 25 years so obs has his own ideals of lurchers and has taught me alot about them (in working terms), hsi friends would experiment buying varied crosses but he would never touch certain breeds and had his ideals, I just like them as pets Anyways he gave me this info below when I often wondered how the word came about.......
Lurcher= Many meanings of the word 'lurcher' have been suggested: From the Romany words for "lur" meaning thief and "cur" meaning a mixed dog breed. So its a thiefs X breed, and this is because back in those days poor men could not hunt with a deerhound (the wealthy mans dog) so they simply crossed them and created a lurcher so they could hunt (sounds simple enough)

He also says a lurcher (is something that brings you a meal home every day)


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## cremedemonthe (4 February 2013)

I have  whippet x saluki, deadly in the hunting field but not as clever as our old whippet x jrt who was quick, deadly and clever.
Here's the whippet x saluki doing what she does best,sleeping!


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## zippo (5 February 2013)

Pippi,JRT X Whippet is deadly,fast,committed and deaf to all entreaties,when on a chase.On the other hand her friend Shirley Bassette,is much slower,steadier[nose to ground],total lack of recall.Pippi put up a hare the other day and was off,followed by her pal,I had to go on the quad bike to retrieve them,I must say they were both very glad of a ride home.


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## FairyLights (5 February 2013)

I love sighthounds and longdogs and lurchers  I dont understand why anyone would cross a whippet or greyhound with a bull terrier. though.


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## zandp (5 February 2013)

This is fascinating.

I'm now the proud owner of a 4 month old whippet/lab cross.  He was a Christmas present from OH !

We met both his parents - the dad - whippet/greyhound and the mum - lab cross - if she was lab/greyhound would she be a lurcher ?  The details we had about him in advance said there was lurcher in his background but his dad was definitely whippety/greyhoundy type and his mum was mostly lab.  They were both rescue dogs so not all their background is known.


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## s4sugar (5 February 2013)

zandp said:



			This is fascinating.

I'm now the proud owner of a 4 month old whippet/lab cross.  He was a Christmas present from OH !

We met both his parents - the dad - whippet/greyhound and the mum - lab cross - if she was lab/greyhound would she be a lurcher ?  The details we had about him in advance said there was lurcher in his background but his dad was definitely whippety/greyhoundy type and his mum was mostly lab.  They were both rescue dogs so not all their background is known.
		
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Shouldn't this be cross referenced with the neutering thread?


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## zandp (5 February 2013)

s4sugar said:



			Shouldn't this be cross referenced with the neutering thread?
		
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er what neutering thread ?

I don't own his parents I only own the pup.


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## wench (5 February 2013)

Lurcher = greyhound/whippet x herding dog
Longdog = greyhound/whippet x another sight hound (I think)


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## s4sugar (5 February 2013)

zandp said:



			er what neutering thread ?

I don't own his parents I only own the pup.
		
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http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=592023 with the reasons why rescues neuter.
By taking on a pup but referring to the parents as rescues you are part of the problem.

Your pup is not a lurcher -it is a mongrel or crossbreed.


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## Arizahn (5 February 2013)

For all we know, the mum and dad were rescued along with their unborn puppies...but yeah, let's judge.

Anyway, zandp asked if the mum counted as a lurcher - not the pup. Why jump on them and get offensive?


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## s4sugar (5 February 2013)

Arizahn said:



			For all we know, the mum and dad were rescued along with their unborn puppies...but yeah, let's judge.

Anyway, zandp asked if the mum counted as a lurcher - not the pup. Why jump on them and get offensive?
		
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So why was dad still around to view? If they know it was the sire thay had time to spay the bitch.
Where was I offensive? Some people cannot face the truth.


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## Arizahn (5 February 2013)

Well, all the poster asked was whether their pup's mother was possibly a lurcher. They didn't claim the pup was, there was really no need to leap in and call it a mutt. You came across as offensive, imo. 

The sire may have been neutered post litter, the bitch may have since been spayed, the people the pup came from may have been numpties, they may have been byb, who knows? Why assume the op knows? Why assume they don't? And why, in response to the poster asking if the dam was a lurcher, would you say link this to the neutering thread? It was uncalled for.


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## Arizahn (5 February 2013)

And as to why the dad would still be around, well we all know how hard it is to rehome a dog safely! It takes time. Anyway, for all we know, the people who gave/sold the pup to the poster may have rescued the parents from a bad situation and not known about the litter, or not felt able to abort, etc. Not everyone is able to make that choice. It's a squooshy human emotional thing.


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## s4sugar (5 February 2013)

Arizahn said:



			Well, all the poster asked was whether their pup's mother was possibly a lurcher. They didn't claim the pup was, there was really no need to leap in and call it a mutt. You came across as offensive, imo. 

The sire may have been neutered post litter, the bitch may have since been spayed, the people the pup came from may have been numpties, they may have been byb, who knows? Why assume the op knows? Why assume they don't? And why, in response to the poster asking if the dam was a lurcher, would you say link this to the neutering thread? It was uncalled for.
		
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50p to a charity says I am correct..............The people would have been numpties and BYBs. Have you read that neutering thread? Is it about early neutering and why some charities are doing it.



			Why assume the op knows? Why assume they don't?
		
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You obviously didn't read my post.


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## Arizahn (5 February 2013)

I read it. You were coming across as aggressive. Did you read mine? I posed a question, why assume whether the op knows the details? We don't know. We were not there. We do not know anything about that litter. I knew replying to you would be a mistake. You always do this. I had you on ignore for several months and you are going back on there as I do not want to be a*sed arguing with you.

I do not want to derail this thread. I haven't commented on the neutering thread but honestly? No. I do not support neutering under six months. Keep the dogs in rescue or foster until then if need be. If there is no room, euthanise the ones that have the lowest chance of rehoming, or that are unwell.

Back to topic now, perhaps?


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## s4sugar (5 February 2013)

Arizahn said:



			I read it. You were coming across as aggressive. Did you read mine? I posed a question, why assume whether the op knows the details? We don't know. We were not there. We do not know anything about that litter. I knew replying to you would be a mistake. You always do this. I had you on ignore for several months and you are going back on there as I do not want to be a*sed arguing with you.

I do not want to derail this thread. I haven't commented on the neutering thread but honestly? No. I do not support neutering under six months. Keep the dogs in rescue or foster until then if need be. If there is no room, euthanise the ones that have the lowest chance of rehoming, or that are unwell.

Back to topic now, perhaps?
		
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To answer your questions- 



			Why assume the op knows? Why assume they don't? And why, in response to the poster asking if the dam was a lurcher, would you say link this to the neutering thread?
		
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If they had researched before getting the pup and they know the Dam was a crossbreed/mongrel therefore it's offspring is too. 
That they stated that the sire & dam were rescues is the reason that some rescues are early neutering so it was relevent.

I don't support neutering under six months or until a dog is full size and I have refused to rehome early or to on occasion to people who "must get it neutered so it can't have an accidental litter" when they will only have one dog as that implies lack of supervision. 

Too many dogs are being born and many mixed longdog crosses are getting dumped on unsuspecting pet owners. We can't keep puppies until they are a year so why allow more to be born in rescue or to rescues?


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## zandp (7 February 2013)

How am I adding to the problem by saying I have a pup whose parents were rescues? 

Adding to the problem would be breeding my pup.  
Whoever the people were who did breed these 2 dogs are adding to the problem.

Talking about it and referencing it isn't adding to the problem.

They weren't the people who own the 2 dogs now, not that any of this is any of your business and if you come across as offensive and judgemental in real life as you have on this post I doubt anyone listens to you at all.

All I was doing was checking if the mum was a lurcher and trying to share some of my joy that I have a wonderful puppy who is the best thing that's happened since I had my last dog pts in my lap on my settee at home 2 years ago.  He was a rescue too.  And no we didn't have him neutered. We did however ensure he didn't have any puppies himself while he was with us.


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## Pipkin (7 February 2013)

Alec Swan said:



			I've never understood the distinctions which are offered up which would 
A quick thought about Salukis;  they are distance dogs and will follow their hare for 1000 yards,  and more.  They have remarkable stamina.  Many seem to think that Greyhounds are stupid,  they're anything but.  Salukis,  however,  are of little use,  in the thinking department!

Alec.
		
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*snigger* So true! OH has a Saluki x greyhound/collie, even though she is the fastest working dog I've seen she is also the 
dumbest in a sense and is more or less uselss these days, was an absolute machine a few years ago but a year of being spoilt by OH's dad has turned her into a dumb wimp 

OH's greyhound/collie x deehound/bedlington is a beast though 

I can't stand bull breeds in lurchers and it seems to be the scumbags who are breeding them for pigging and foxes


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## CAYLA (8 February 2013)

zandp said:



			How am I adding to the problem by saying I have a pup whose parents were rescues? 

Adding to the problem would be breeding my pup.  
Whoever the people were who did breed these 2 dogs are adding to the problem.

Talking about it and referencing it isn't adding to the problem.

They weren't the people who own the 2 dogs now, not that any of this is any of your business and if you come across as offensive and judgemental in real life as you have on this post I doubt anyone listens to you at all.

All I was doing was checking if the mum was a lurcher and trying to share some of my joy that I have a wonderful puppy who is the best thing that's happened since I had my last dog pts in my lap on my settee at home 2 years ago.  He was a rescue too.  And no we didn't have him neutered. We did however ensure he didn't have any puppies himself while he was with us.
		
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Lol, well off topic, but I do think adding/encouraging the problem would include "buying" a puppy from 2 dogs known to be rescues. 
Part of my daily life includes educating people about "breeding from "rescue" dogs (I guess ignorance bliss) on the breeders behalf or possibly they are just thick and the people buying pups from what they know are or where rescue dogs!! it is simply encouraging (would you not agree)? not a rude comment either just a question?...... a dog/s that possibly should have been in a yellow sack (they are yellow here anyway) then procreating is the worse kind ignorance to me and possibly one of the things that enrages me the most. Obs thats just my point of view

I remember someone posting here once and suggesting breeding from her dogs, it turned into a huge debate and turns out both where from rescue centers (this did not seem unscrupulous to her), both discarded yet pro creating themselves go figure. She also discarded of the dogs and one also had a health issue (scarey) or what?? and I think when questioned about health screening she said her vets did not have a big enough table to xray the dogs


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## zandp (8 February 2013)

The argument in the post was that by referencing it I was adding to the problem though.  Referencing a problem never adds to it.

I don't disagree that by having a pup from this litter I could be considered to have encouraged breeding, however the breeding had already happend (accidentally as it happens) and the person who owns mum and dad dog couldn't keep the puppies.  

This pup was my Christmas present too so we're doubly irresponsible, a dog for Christmas !!

And shoot me now people, we both work full time


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## Alec Swan (8 February 2013)

zandp said:



			The argument in the post was that by referencing it I was adding to the problem though.  Referencing a problem never adds to it.

I don't disagree that by having a pup from this litter I could be considered to have encouraged breeding, however the breeding had already happend (accidentally as it happens) and the person who owns mum and dad dog couldn't keep the puppies.  

This pup was my Christmas present too so we're doubly irresponsible, a dog for Christmas !!

And shoot me now people, we both work full time 

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 Don't be silly.  We buy or acquire puppies.  Someone bred them,  accidentally or otherwise.  It isn't a crime,  despite what some may tell you !! 

I'm planning on a litter of Cocker pups this summer.  They will be bred for work and docked.  They are out of an exceptionally well bred and highly regarded bitch,  and by a FTCH dog (I already have him lined up)! 

The pups will be for sale,  and as a bonus,  I may end up with one puppy which has effectively cost me nothing,  that's the plan. 

Alec.


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## CAYLA (8 February 2013)

Nobody mentioned a crime being committed, although it should be

Alec not sure what a supposed well bred working/planned litter has in connection with 2 rescue dogs slapped together to create some mutts for a (I would hazard a guess).... dole top up for some a few months worth of rollies or regal kingsize and a few cases of carling.

Lol, is that even a brand of tab/fag (whatever they are called)

A Xmas present


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## Alec Swan (9 February 2013)

CAYLA said:



			.......

Alec not sure what a supposed well bred working/planned litter has in connection with 2 rescue dogs slapped together to create some mutts for a (I would hazard a guess).... dole top up for some a few months worth of rollies or regal kingsize and a few cases of carling.

.......
		
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I agree.  It was simply a reply to zandp,  and their apparent sense of misplaced,  guilt!  It was off topic.  I apologise! 

Come to think of it,  it has nothing at all to do with the initial question,  has it?  I do think that the description "A Lurcher" is often misused.  There has to be a fit for purpose use for the dog bred,  and in part that would mean that it could effectively course a hare,  with a reasonable chance of catching it,  though even then pure bred greyhounds are rarely able,  single handedly,  to catch a hare,  so it isn't just a matter of speed.

Brains,  come with experience,  and all so often young dogs,  entered too early,  find that they can't catch a hare,  so though they chase,  they can have the belief knocked out of them.  Plenty of potentially good puppies have ended up as right-offs,  through no fault of their own.

Back to the question,  again,  The Lurcher was originally the gypsy's dog.  It was instinctively a thief (no intended parallels), it was able to care for and feed itself,  should the need arise,  and it would when an overnight stay was found,  be slipped at dusk,  often to return home with a hare.  It must be remembered,  that before the motor car and the ability to travel daily distances to work,  there were many families who relied to a large extent upon what their dogs could provide.  

Today,  we mostly keep cross bred coursing dogs,  for fun,  but that hasn't always been the case.

Alec.


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## Clodagh (9 February 2013)

My lurcher would fill the pot every night, given the opportunity. She was a rescue dumped when coursers were disturbed - not on our land - and I got her from the kennels the dog warden takes them to. She has all the morality you would expect from her upbringing and is the most independent minded dog I have ever met, she loves you if it suits her but if there is a better offer she is out of here, she is very cat like in many ways.

I think a true lurcher should be adaptable and independant thinking, no point only being able to kill hares. She can use her nose to hunt up prey and if out with the terriers will watch them dive in the brambles/logpile/whatever and circle round the other side to wait.


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## Clodagh (9 February 2013)

Brian Plummers books are good reading, whatever you think of his breeding/training/hunting methods!


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