# hard nudging - what does it mean? how can I stop it?



## hanna1983 (16 September 2009)

hi peeps,

my gelding is nudging me. this has only started a few days ago. he is really rough with it too.

can you tell me what he is trying to tell me and how i can make him stop? im getting bruises all over  
	
	
		
		
	


	





pls dont tell me to hit him or slap him as i will never do that.

thanks.


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## samstar (16 September 2009)

nudge him back harder to show whose boss, he's taking the pee I think


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## hanna1983 (16 September 2009)

i read that i should nudge him back with my head (and hat on of course) i tried that yesterday and it got a little better. but i dont want to hurt him.


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## ruscara (16 September 2009)

Mine does it, and I am certain that they are communicating something, not taking the pee.  There would be no reason for them to do it, except to communicate, and I honestly don't believe that they understand the concept of 'taking the pee'.
Mine does it when he wants to go out, when he is hungry, when he wants a treat - a 'nudge' is just that: a nudge.
Try to see when your horse does it, and what he might be expecting (dinner, turnout ...) and wants you to hurry up with!


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## ester (16 September 2009)

He is seriously invading your personal space and needs to know that isn't acceptable as it will probably only get worse and lead to barginess. You have to explain to him in some way that its not acceptable

With our mare (who was babyed from a young age) I think we would say no (v sternly) and ask her to back away from your space but nudging her on the shoulder and saying back and repeating until she got the msg, she isn't the sort of horse you could hit for it as she would stress about it and get worse.

you do have to match the intensity of your 'nudge' to what they are doing it to you though and there is little worse than a horse who starts walking all over you.


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## hanna1983 (16 September 2009)

hi ruscara, there was a mistake with his feed and for the past few days he has been on nuts only which made him hyper active. also since i am working late, he never got his dinner before 8pm and that is usually when he nudges me. i have the routine of coming to the stable, then grooming him, then lunging him and then giving him his dinner. do you think he is just telling me that he is hungry and needs the food right away? anyway, i have asked the stable now to feed him his dinner for me at the same time as the other horses. maybe that will help. was just wondering really what other reasons there might be. it really hurts when he does it and he needs to stop. i got bruises all over!


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## Smurphy (16 September 2009)

my gelding does it too, when he wants his feed or wants turning out, its his way of telling to get a move on!!!


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## Elle1085 (16 September 2009)

do you give him treats or feed him by hand at all? could you not just tap him on the nose when he does it? i know you don't want to hit your horse but his nudging is going to cause you an injury if you let it carry on and whether it is because he wants something or not it is still rude and a bad habit and i'm not saying you should beat your horse or anything close


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## Madam_max (16 September 2009)

I think it's rude to be honest and he shouldn't do it especially if he if bruising you.  Tell him off and push him away.


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## hanna1983 (16 September 2009)

hi Elle,
i do give my horse treats when he has done well yes. for example when i have groomed him and he gave me all 4 feet for cleaning without a problem then he gets a piece of carrot or apple. i have done so since i have had him (2 weeks now).


i guess i should see if it he is better tonight as he will have been fed already. if he still does it, what could be the reason cause then it wont be him asking to get a move on with feeding him...


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## Madam_max (16 September 2009)

I might sound a bit mean here ( I really don't mean to)  Stop giving him treats.  He should be expected to pick his feet up for you in my opinion, it's not really worthy of an reward.  I do give treats, but after I have ridden and that's it really.


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## ester (16 September 2009)

scratch the treats for a bit, give him a pat and say good boy instead. (I only do treats when competing or after work to do his stretching exercises)

how old is he by the way?


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## Elle1085 (16 September 2009)

i would be giving him treats in a bucket or on the floor so he doesn't think he's going to get something out of you. i wouldn't worry about whats causing it i don't think its generally associated with pain its just a rude and annoying habit some horses have


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## cptrayes (16 September 2009)

Hanna if you have had him only two weeks and he is hurting you, you are being very naive when you say you don't want to hurt him. Have you seen how hard horses hit each other, with feet, teeth, shoulders etc. ?

 He will still love you if you lay down the boundaries, which do NOT included hitting you. He isn't "nudging" you he is HITTING you with his head and causing bruises as if a human used his fist. In fact if you reassure him that you are in charge - and yes I mean hit him when he hits you, or at the very lest yell at him - then he will love you MORE not less. 

At the moment he is a poor insecure fellow who has moved to a new owner (and home?) and doesn't know who his leader is. A horse without a leader is a stressed horse. Sort this now, by being less soft, or you risk him becoming seriously nasty and walking all over you, probably literally. 

You think by not hitting him for hitting you that you are being kind to him. You aren't, it's very unfair for him not to know where he stands. You can bet your bottom dollar that he doesn't get away with that with the livery staff when you aren't around!

The answer to a horse who bullies you for his food is to make him WAIT not give it to him earlier. He's not a pet. Take control before he gets labelled as a nasty horse!


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## Weezy (16 September 2009)

Completely agree!

And no treats!!!  I give after riding too, when my horse has pleased me, but never at other times.  I will not tolerate being used as a scratching post either, that gets a firm no and a shove - remember, he is a LOT bigger and stronger than you, you need to lay the boundaries, not him!


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## hanna1983 (16 September 2009)

Hi Madam Max, Ester, 
thanks I will see how he behaves without treats for silly things.
he is only 4 and a half years old now. 

cptrayes,
i dont know what not wanting to hit my horse has to do with being naive. if that is something you are comfortable with doing, then that is your business. i simply cant and wont hit him - ever - and i dont think that is the right way forward either in his case. he has not been treated well in the past.

i can do no treats, a firm NO and pushing him out of "my space" or nudging him back. i dont want him to fear me, i want him to behave.


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## Chico Mio (16 September 2009)

Agree with cptrayes totally.  He's trying to sort out where his place is in this new 'herd' and you are enforcing his belief that he can be above you in the order.  He is invading your space and pushing you about to demonstrate he can go where he likes and you have to put up with it.  The first thing is to say NO! very firmly if he nudges you and make him get out of your space.

A horse who knows his place is a happy horse - trite but true


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## ester (16 September 2009)

I agree with chico mio, I think animals with firm boundaries are happier for it. 

As I say you need to equal the force he is applying and teach him the word 'back' too. hitting the anglo baby mare as a youngster prob wouldn't have worked but she needed some serious boundaries and we went back to basics with groundwork etc she soon got the idea.

My chunky boy is a bit different he is just very occasionally bolshy but I absolutely will not tolerate it, he is 16 and knows better.


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## ibot (16 September 2009)

i have spoken to my friend hanna about the pushing and its typical for the breed. paddy is doing to to but not hard. she says to push back so i am going to try it with him. it will be ok.


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## Madam_max (16 September 2009)

Eh?


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## ester (16 September 2009)

and the award for most comprehendable post 16.9.09................ 
	
	
		
		
	


	





Je ne comprends pas aussi


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## camilla4 (16 September 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
Agree with cptrayes totally.  He's trying to sort out where his place is in this new 'herd' and you are enforcing his belief that he can be above you in the order.  He is invading your space and pushing you about to demonstrate he can go where he likes and you have to put up with it.  The first thing is to say NO! very firmly if he nudges you and make him get out of your space.

A horse who knows his place is a happy horse - trite but true 
	
	
		
		
	


	





[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that if he is new he is trying to find out where the boundaries are and how far he can push you!  Be very firm with him right from the outset or, as has already been said, you will have a horse who not only bullies you but is very insecure and unhappy too!  No need to belt him or anything but a like-for-like push is absolutely in order!  And definitely stop the hand-fed treats for now!


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## ester (16 September 2009)

now my post looks stupid madam max!


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## Madam_max (16 September 2009)

I changed it  
	
	
		
		
	


	




  I thought it was too confusing for some


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## ester (16 September 2009)




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## Enfys (16 September 2009)

It is rude, they may be trying to tell you something but it still isn't on, I make my horses, and the foals, back right up away from me when they do it.

I also don't allow them to rest their heads on me, that's another dominance issue.


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## Madam_max (16 September 2009)

I think the only thing they are telling you is feed/spoil me, I am in charge!


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## chestnut cob (16 September 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
hi Elle,
i do give my horse treats when he has done well yes. for example when i have groomed him and he gave me all 4 feet for cleaning without a problem then he gets a piece of carrot or apple. i have done so since i have had him (2 weeks now).


i guess i should see if it he is better tonight as he will have been fed already. if he still does it, what could be the reason cause then it wont be him asking to get a move on with feeding him... 

[/ QUOTE ]

A couple of things stand out for me with this thread...

1. the horse is walking all over you with the nudging.  Sorry to say it but push him back if he pushes you.  It's bl00dy rude.  If he invades your space, then send him back out of it.  He needs to learn to respect your space.

2. Stop feeding him treats.

3. Stop giving him an apple for picking his feet up.  He does not think like you - he does not associate the apple or carrot with picking his feet up, he just knows that sometimes he gets treats after he's done it.  Feeding them will not make him think "I will make sure I pick my feet up like a good boy".  Your horse should pick his feet up without any argument, he does not need to be rewarded for this.  He should also stand to be groomed and most definitely not be nudging and pushing you for his feed.

4. Feeding him early will not stop him from barging you.  He will still nudge you because he doesn't think like you..he doesn't think he has had his dinner so that's it.  He will just ask you for more.

5. What sort of work do you do with him?  I'd vary his work load so he does more than just lunge to keep his brain occupied and stop him from expecting the same routine of grooming, treats, lunging, treats, feet picked out, treats, nudging, dinner.... 

Sorry if this sounds harsh but horses are too big to allow them to push you around and you cannot anthropomorphosise him how you are - he isn't trying to tell you anything other than "I know I get food and treats when I am bargy" by nudging you.  They're not puppies, you need to get him to respect your space.


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## Theresa_F (16 September 2009)

As others have said, time to put in place the boundaries before he gets worse.  I find that they are happy when they have firm but fair boundaries and feel more secure.

My two do give me very tiny nudges - they are both young and it is to get my attention or for me to continue with the ear scratches but they are never hard and so I allow these.  If they ever did hard nudges they would be driven back with  body language, a growl and if daft enough to continue, a pinch on the chest or a thump the instant they did it.

I do feed treats - not many, and again our two stand and take them very gently - if they did not, they would not get them.

At the moment, we have very little grass and I am feeding and putting hay in twice a day.  They have taken to pushing by the gate and me being mobbed when I go in the field, hence the shavings fork is now held in an agressive manner to drive them back (and if they don't they will get a poke with it).  They must then stand and wait for grub to be put before them.  Yes they are hungry and pushing me to get to the food, but is totally out of order and hence the manners are being put back as they should be.


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## eahotson (16 September 2009)

Find a good natural horsemanship person. Kelly Marks associates are good. They are wonderful in setting boundaries and ground work in general.They are non violent.I can understand your reluctance to hit him if he has been abused in the past but you must not allow him to hit you either.Horses are very big strong animals and you will get hurt if you are not careful.


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## hanna1983 (16 September 2009)

thanks ibot.  pushing back is fine, will do that. speak later x


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## hanna1983 (16 September 2009)

i am not getting useful answers here guys.  maybe its because i didnt ask the question right, but i am going to go back to the professionals and those that know him as i feel they will be able to give me the right guidance. thanks anyway.


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## ester (16 September 2009)

This is neutral advice there is a huge range of us on here and a wealth of knowledge and you have been given a variety of ways to deal with this problem.? 
	
	
		
		
	


	





Feeding treats when they do well is fine but basic conditioning in rats has shown that animals learn quicker if they have to work harder for treats (ie they don't get treated every time).

Hey ho.


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## ester (16 September 2009)

grr thats twice in this thread my posts don't make sense now *steps away from keyboard*


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## cptrayes (16 September 2009)

"he has not been treated well in the past."

Sorry Hanna, but by naive, I mean that you are the wrong person to have bought  a horse with a bad history if you have to come here  to ask strangers how to manage him, and then disagree with what most of them tell you what you need to do. 

Get professional help quickly before you spoil the horse even more than he is spoilt already.


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## chestnut cob (16 September 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
i am not getting useful answers here guys.  maybe its because i didnt ask the question right, but i am going to go back to the professionals and those that know him as i feel they will be able to give me the right guidance. thanks anyway. 

[/ QUOTE ]

What you mean is that we didn't agree with you and tell you that your horse is trying to tell you he loves you, or he hurts somewhere, or some other human emotion that is being projected on to him?

As someone else says, a horse is too big to spoil.

The Kelly Marks associates are very good, I've used them before for things.  They won't come out and tell you your horse loves you either though, they will show you how you should manage him and behave around him so that he behaves correctly.  I had one out last year and she spent an hour showing me how what I was doing was *causing* my horse's bad behaviour, then showed me how to change it.  Don't expect them to come and be fluffy bunny huggers, they are very pragmatic and Monty Roberts is actually quite forceful with his horses if you watch him in action.  Horses don't respect you for being "nice", they respect you when you teach them the boundaries they need to stick to and your reinforce those boundaries.


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## hanna1983 (16 September 2009)

i know now that asking complete strangers for advise was a mistake thanks which is why i go to professionals now and not wannabe horse whisperers


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## woolyjumper (16 September 2009)

I imagine the professionals will tell you the same thing that the very knowledgeable people on this forum have said - you need to establish firm boundaries with your new horse before his behaviour escalates out of control (and it will). At 4 yrs, your horse is very impressionable. I'm not going to add to the advice you have been given, as I think everything has been said. Is this your first horse? I really hope you get it sorted. And I agree, speak to some experienced people (yard owner. instructer?) and ask for their help.


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## hanna1983 (16 September 2009)

i dont see very knowledgable people unfortunately. i see people who look down at me because he is my first horse and they think they know it all. so i am off going to speak to people who have an understanding how hard it can be to have your first horse and who understand where i am coming from when i am saying i am worried about being forceful with him. people here seem to ahve forgotten how it was when they got their first horse. 

and to all thsoe who think i shouldnt have bought him as my first horse because he had a bad past: he needs a safe home where he isnt neglected and mistreated and while i might be inexperienced in owning a horse, i will do everything i can to provide what he needs and learn what i need to learn specific to him. thats all i have to say.


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## Theresa_F (16 September 2009)

Yep my OH is having some lessons with a NH instructor - Monty Roberts/Kelly Marks school with his young clydesdale.  She is very nice, but is a no nonsense approach to horses.

Farra is learning very fast that she is a big girl, who does a lot of what she wants most of the time, eat and mooch about  (as she is so easy we tend not to be so strict) and when asked to back up, respect space, be careful where she goes with her huge feet etc was most put out.  She is very clumsy by her nature and this can't be allowed to continue around people.

The instructor made life uncomfortable with pushing back and body moves until she had no choice but to do as she was told - no hitting, but she was firmly dealt with until she did back up round poles etc.

This is what is needed - taught respect and no daft things about her emotions - she is a horse that needs to respect and obey when asked to do something for the hour or so a day when she is not free to do her own thing.

Maybe this is the answer you are seeking?  Get in a NH professional type to put you and him on the right path.


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## sportsmansB (16 September 2009)

You risk your horse starting to take control of your relationship
Do you think that horses in the field don't get physical with one another when their space is invaded? What do you think kicking is about? If you don't nip this kind of behaviour in the bud then your horse could well see you as a 'soft touch' and start pushing the limits all over the place. 
You should get him fed with the other horses as he doesn't understand why he has to wait- as long as there is enough time to digest his food before you do any exercise with him
But if you are giving him treats and allowing him to get away with bolshy behaviour, especially at such a young age, it will only get worse - he needs to know his place and he will be much more secure in his mind once he does. 
Honestly- its not mean, its just true. Well trained large dogs can do people and kids damage if they jump up on them- so they have to be trained not to- same with your horse!!


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## hanna1983 (16 September 2009)

thanks Theresa
that actually is helpful. no hitting or nastyness just showing me the right way of handling him. is what i need. i will try the changes re the food and also nudging him back and keeping him out of my space. if that doesnt help im gonna get an instructor to have a look at him and give me advise


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## hanna1983 (16 September 2009)

thanks SportsmanB.
that answers one of my questions re the feeding time. i have already put that in place from today on.


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## woolyjumper (16 September 2009)

No one is looking down at you because he is your first horse, everyone on here has had to start somewhere. They may, however, be unimpressed at the fact that you seem to be unwilling to take good advice. Your heart is clearly in the right place, but green 4yo horses with bad pasts don't generally make good first horses. Your best chance of making it work is to accept as much advice as you can, and appreciate how long and hard the process is going to be. Get at least weekly sessions with a good instructor and ask for a realistic assessment of your compatibility. I'm not looking down at you at all, I'm speaking from experience - from the mistakes that I have made myself in the past!! Good luck, and I hope that horse ownership stays fun and enjoyable for you.


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## littlemisslauren (16 September 2009)

I really hope you do take some advice on board from this thread. People on here are very knowledgable and experienced.
I can remember how hard it is to have your first horse. I was 14 with a non horsey family and she was kept at home. I didnt know about places like this back then and if i had i think things would have been alot more simple for me and my mare. I didnt want to hit her / be rough at all. I fussed over her too much. In one week she smashed a fence, broke my friends fingers after sodding off when she was being lunged and double barrelled me in the knee (almost breaking my leg). After that week i woke up, when she was a sh*t she did get a smack, she was growled at quite frequently 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 and i made her wait for dinner / turnout etc. She worked at my pace. Within a month i had a completely transformed pony on the ground. And i did that on my own. At 14. 

Do not discard advice simply because the people trying to help are more experienced than you. It is very childish and ungrateful. IMO.


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## Enfys (16 September 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
i dont see very knowledgable people unfortunately. i see people who look down at me because he is my first horse and they think they know it all. so i am off going to speak to people who have an understanding how hard it can be to have your first horse and who understand where i am coming from when i am saying i am worried about being forceful with him. people here seem to ahve forgotten how it was when they got their first horse. 

and to all thsoe who think i shouldnt have bought him as my first horse because he had a bad past: he needs a safe home where he isnt neglected and mistreated and while i might be inexperienced in owning a horse, i will do everything i can to provide what he needs and learn what i need to learn specific to him. thats all i have to say. 

[/ QUOTE ]






Right then,  as far as I can see you asked a question and people gave their opinions and experiences which amounts to advice if you care to take it like that. I don't see people being patronising at all, sorry if you see it like that. Words on a screen can so easily be misconstrued.

Some of the most oft given advice here is go to a professional (Trainer, Vet, Farrier, Saddler, whatever) and that no-one knows your horse better than yourself or those around him. Members of a forum, ANY forum, can only comment on the information they have been given, they can't SEE exactly what it is a horse or handler does or doesn't do.

I would be interested to hear how things go after you have seen a trainer.

Good Luck with him.


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## bensababy (16 September 2009)

what an ungreatful OP. people have been nothing but friendly and offered you advice.. and you throw it back at them. Good luck if you have that attitude... it stinks.


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## Theresa_F (16 September 2009)

I hope it helps, and once piece of advice on experience, when I got Chancer he was only 16 months when I bought him home - my first baby horse.  At 18 months he started to push the boundaries, jumping on me, nudging hard and being a ill mannered thug.

Had he been older, he would have been given a hard push, an elbow in the ribs to get him off me but as he was a baby I was not sure what to do.

I got in a very good instructor, experienced with babies - his first question was "how long as he been like this".  When I replied 2 weeks, he said "thank god, I can sort this today, it is when people wait 6 months that the problem is complicated and takes weeks to sort".

Only a suggestion, but don't wait too long if you feel you need help.  

I got the NH instructor who comes out to my OH from the following site http://www.intelligenthorsemanship.co.uk/ if you go to the specialist training tab, you can search for someone local to you.

I am going to put my OH on the perfect manners course with Farra as this is something he is very interested in - controlling his horse in a mutal partnership where she understands that he is the boss but they can also be good companions.


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## Shilasdair (16 September 2009)

QR
My advice would be to sell him, or at the very least have constant professional supervision.
It is obvious to me, that you are not competent enough to handle a 4yr old which has, as you say, behavioural issues, without some real and immediate help.
Having read your previous threads, you don't really have a lot of experience - sadly, loving your horse and never ever wanting to hit him, while laudable, are not what your horse needs.
In the two weeks that you have had him, his behaviour has deteriorated to the point where you are posting for advice on a forum (although why you bothered when you are not listening to the very experienced people on here, I don't know).
For your poor horse's sake, get help now, before you are even more frightened of him, or damaged by him.
S


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## hanna1983 (16 September 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
what an ungreatful OP. people have been nothing but friendly and offered you advice.. and you throw it back at them. Good luck if you have that attitude... it stinks. 

[/ QUOTE ]

you don't know me so don't judge me. That attitude stinks just as much


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## bensababy (16 September 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
what an ungreatful OP. people have been nothing but friendly and offered you advice.. and you throw it back at them. Good luck if you have that attitude... it stinks. 

[/ QUOTE ]

you don't know me so don't judge me. That attitude stinks just as much 

[/ QUOTE ]

Well saying above that your not getting any helpful advice on here and your best off going to "professionals" to me sounds ungreatful. To me that is a sucky attitude when people take time out to comment.

Good luck with your horse. I would offer my advice but its not professional.


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## Shilasdair (16 September 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
what an ungreatful OP. people have been nothing but friendly and offered you advice.. and you throw it back at them. Good luck if you have that attitude... it stinks. 

[/ QUOTE ]

you don't know me so don't judge me. That attitude stinks just as much 

[/ QUOTE ]

Well saying above that your not getting any helpful advice on here and your best off going to "professionals" to me sounds ungreatful. To me that is a sucky attitude when people take time out to comment.

Good luck with your horse. I would offer my advice but its not professional. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Pssst I worked in the industry as a 'professional' for a couple of decades, but I'm pretty sure she won't like my advice either.  
	
	
		
		
	


	




S


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## bensababy (16 September 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
what an ungreatful OP. people have been nothing but friendly and offered you advice.. and you throw it back at them. Good luck if you have that attitude... it stinks. 

[/ QUOTE ]

you don't know me so don't judge me. That attitude stinks just as much 

[/ QUOTE ]

Well saying above that your not getting any helpful advice on here and your best off going to "professionals" to me sounds ungreatful. To me that is a sucky attitude when people take time out to comment.

Good luck with your horse. I would offer my advice but its not professional. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Pssst I worked in the industry as a 'professional' for a couple of decades, but I'm pretty sure she won't like my advice either.  
	
	
		
		
	


	




S 
	
	
		
		
	


	





[/ QUOTE ]


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## hanna1983 (16 September 2009)

By the way, just got advice from my yard owner and he said it is not a big deal and will disappear once he gets exercised enough. And for the above person: to say his behaviour has deteriorated to a point where I have to seek advice on here, I never said it is a big thing. He started nudging, I wondered why that was all. If you lot want to jump on the bandwagon and all be horrible you do that. You made me feel like I had to defend myself right from the start! And then I am being judged as unfriendly. Thanks very much.


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## Chico Mio (16 September 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
what an ungreatful OP. people have been nothing but friendly and offered you advice.. and you throw it back at them. Good luck if you have that attitude... it stinks. 

[/ QUOTE ]

you don't know me so don't judge me. That attitude stinks just as much 

[/ QUOTE ]

You are right we don't know you.  
Only by what you post on here can we judge you.

Same as everybody who uses this forum.


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## Weezy (16 September 2009)

Your YO said it would disappear when he gets enough exercise?  Wow, does he have a crystal ball?  Sorry to sound flippant, but that is not great advice.  YOU said that your horse is HURTING you, giving you bruises - if a person was giving you bruises would you be so easy going?  you don't have to defend yourself, but plase, see the bigger picture!


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## Shilasdair (16 September 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
By the way, just got COMPETENT advice from my yard owner and he said it is not a big deal and will disappear once he gets exercised enough. Thanks everyone for making this into a drama. And for the above person: to say his behaviour has deteriorated to a point where I have to seek advice on here, I never said it is a big thing. He started nudging, I wondered why that was all. If you lot want to jump on the bandwagon and all be horrible you do that. You made me feel like I had to defend myself right from the start! And the I am being judged as unfriendly. Thanks very much. 

[/ QUOTE ]

In two weeks his behaviour had deteriorated to the point where he is battering you with his head, hard enough to bruise you.  
I'd say that's a big thing.   
	
	
		
		
	


	




Imagine what he'll be doing in another two weeks if you don't get professional help as soon as possible.
Incidentally owning a yard doesn't make your YO an expert (some are, some aren't), so don't rely on the magic of owning stables/land to confer competence.  
	
	
		
		
	


	




Oh - and Bensababy - 
	
	
		
		
	


	
















S


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## Madam_max (16 September 2009)

Well I didn't think I was being nasty  
	
	
		
		
	


	




  I was being honest.


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## ruscara (16 September 2009)

Ooops, I think I have now defined myself as 'Fluffy'!  
	
	
		
		
	


	





I had no idea that your horse was just a baby and that you hadn't had him long.
Certainly these two facts change my viewpoint, and I agree that you must assert your posiiton in the pecking order with your chap.  That is not to say you should be unkind, but firmly let him know that he needs to respect you and your space.

I advised you from the position of someone who has a 24 year old horse whom she has owned for twelve years.  We have a certain 'understanding' and I know when he is trying to talk to me.


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## sandr (16 September 2009)

Echo cptrayes / chesnut cob / shilasdair / weezy.

This girl (i assume she is young?) will end up in hospital and the poor horse completely screwed up.

Horses don't want or need friends. They want leaders.


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## Donkeymad (16 September 2009)

QR

OP, please don't get huffy with the people here who have taken time to answer in order to help you. Some people here are proffesionals within the horse world. Others may not be professionals, but have so much experience.
The views expressed here are that your horse is becoming boss, and needs to know his place, his boundaries. This will make him a much happier and more secure horse.
I hope that you will take on board the good advice that has been given, before you become injured.


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## Theresa_F (16 September 2009)

Sorry but it is a big deal if your horse is hurting you - I have two what are now 5 year olds and hence I have fast learnt that they must be given boundaries - our old clydesdale got away with just about anything, but he was old and wise and knew what was and was not acceptable behaviour.

I had a very manic WB mare that without turnout or enough exercise was a nightmare.  However that was to ride and not to handle - she may have been wanting to explode, but she never nudged me like you say yours does, always backed up and was respectful of people and their space.  She backed up on a finger and waited for feeds etc.

If things really got bad with no turn out, and she needed to let off steam, she would make it clear that she could not cope with her body language and went to the end of her lead rope and then did an explosion into the air - but only once she was out of my space - this was the compromise - if she got out of my way and exploded, she was not told off for this.

Again it took time to teach her acceptable behaviour and this is what your chap needs - hence please do get someone in to teach you how to have him respect you with pressure and body stance - you will probably enjoy the lessons and it will help you gain a closer bond with your horse if you are not worrying about him giving you pain, plus it gives him things to think about and this too will help with his attitude and lack of work.  

Mental work is far more tiring for a young horse than physical work - learning something new has my youngsters exhausted within 10 minutes.


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## hanna1983 (16 September 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
Your YO said it would disappear when he gets enough exercise?  Wow, does he have a crystal ball?  Sorry to sound flippant, but that is not great advice.  YOU said that your horse is HURTING you, giving you bruises - if a person was giving you bruises would you be so easy going?  you don't have to defend yourself, but plase, see the bigger picture! 

[/ QUOTE ]

he has owned horses for 45 years, he has been a riding instructor for over 35 years and he has owned the riding school and the yard for over 
25 years. Do I trust him ? Yes I do. I wish I had asked him right away and not asked on here. Maybe it was the wrong question to ask. My intention was not to offend anyone, I felt I  had to defend myself. I appreciate I might have taken some advise here the wrong way but I don't feel you all try and understand where I am coming from and that's fine. I love my horse, I want us to have a great life together. I will find a solution if it doesn't stop. I won't sell him and I won't hit him. I have said that from the first post on. I was looking for advise on what else I can 
try. So lets all finish here or is anyone actually enjoying it? I'm not. Take care and thanks for trying. You might not believe it but I do appreciate your intentions of trying to help. It was just not the suitable answers for my case. H


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## sleepingdragon10 (16 September 2009)

Oh please, typical for the breed my butt!!! It's typical for a horse who doesn't respect you and is pushing you about 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 ... you have to be the leader, the boss, the one who sets the rules and defines the boundaries. the very first thing my pony was taught was to back up and get out of my space...i have been known to make him back up down the whole length of the arena before now because i will not tolerate that level of rudeness in an animal that can potentially kill you!


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## sandr (16 September 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
 I love my horse, I want us to have a great life together 

[/ QUOTE ] 

You'll have a hard &amp; miserable life if you dont get your head out of the clouds and treat this horse like a HORSE not a kitten.


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## sleepingdragon10 (16 September 2009)

I'm confused...what did you want to hear? That it's ok for him to push you around and bruise you?


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## ester (16 September 2009)

um we weren't all telling you to hit your horse, the concept of asking a horse to back up and leave your personal space is pretty universal and actually goes for any animal

I also meant to say earlier that reward doesn't = food, reward equals a word, or a quiet pat, a stroke in the right spot. 

Am pretty sure Frank doesn't dislike me and he has ways of asking me for things (normally the application of cute face, he has a slightly different one for when he is thirsty at shows) however he know communication by thumping me one isn't on.

You need to understand that when people take time out of their day to try and help you if you don't like the answers just say thanks very much guys and leave it at that

not to say thanks very much but you're all collectively wrong, I know better so I'm going somewhere else.


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## Shilasdair (16 September 2009)

I just feel so sorry for the poor horse.
I never understand why people get animals, if they are not prepared to meet their physical and mental needs.
S


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## Ranyhyn (16 September 2009)

This horse is going to have a GREAT life, he's going to do what the hell he wants when he wants it!





Dang I love a newb!!


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## hanna1983 (16 September 2009)

He has been as good as gold tonight so I will just smile about you all and your horrible manners 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 I was right and will leave you awkward lot be for I live in the real world and don't need some silly little forum to big up my ego. Pathetic. Grow up


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## chestnut cob (16 September 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
i dont see very knowledgable people unfortunately. i see people who look down at me because he is my first horse and they think they know it all. so i am off going to speak to people who have an understanding how hard it can be to have your first horse and who understand where i am coming from when i am saying i am worried about being forceful with him. people here seem to ahve forgotten how it was when they got their first horse. 

and to all thsoe who think i shouldnt have bought him as my first horse because he had a bad past: he needs a safe home where he isnt neglected and mistreated and while i might be inexperienced in owning a horse, i will do everything i can to provide what he needs and learn what i need to learn specific to him. thats all i have to say. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Show me where anyone has looked down on you because he is your first horse?

EVERYONE on here has an understanding of how hard it can be to have your first horse...we've all been there!!

Why are you worried about being forceful with him?  If you are scared of how he might react then you really need to sort this out before you start trying to instill manners into your horse - they can tell someone who is scared a mile off.

And please show me where anyone on this thread said you shouldnt' have bought him as your first horse?  I think a lot of this is in your head, or you are voicing your own concerns at least...


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## ester (16 September 2009)

^^^^^

what she said.

I actually think you have been very rude to all the posters who tried to help you OP


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## Patches (16 September 2009)

I would shout "back" whilst raising my hand up high in his face, fingers spread and moving it backwards at him (hard to explain) in a jerky repetitve motion. It will get his attention and hopefully he'll move back away from you.

I can do this with my mare who was incredibly pushy when I had her. She used to really "bunt" me. I used the above technique but initially had to combine it with making a fist, but leaving thumb sticking out, and pushing the thumb into her chest as I said "back". 

As I say, now I can throw the spread fingered hand towards her face whilst shouting "back" and she will move out of my space.  

Lots of praise when he takes a step back...he'll soon cotton on to what you want/expect from him.


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## chestnut cob (16 September 2009)

[ QUOTE ]

I also meant to say earlier that reward doesn't = food, reward equals a word, or a quiet pat, a stroke in the right spot. 


[/ QUOTE ]

If the OP gets a Kelly Marks RA out to help her then she will quickly find out that in their school of thought, a reward simply = the release of the pressure you have put on the horse.  A stroke or a pat when something is done well, but it's simple pressure/release.

I agree with Teresa - the RA's are brilliant and having a couple of sessions with one saved me from giving up my horse.  I have a big horse who used to be bargy, rude and bolshy to the point of being dangerous.  I ran out of ideas as to how control his behaviour so I had an RA out, who showed me how I should be asking and showing, and how to reward him.  I had a horse that would spin around, barge over people, threaten to kick, wouldn't stand to be mounted, have headcollar taken off in the field, couldn't be left alone, had to be led in a chifney...list goes on.  I now have a horse who is back in his normal headcollar, respects your space, comes to call in the field and is generally an absolute pleasure to be around.  But the RA didn't wave a magic wand, it took a hell of a lot of work to sort it all out and was a real steep learning curve for me.

I would really recommend finding your local RA, they are brilliant.  But you need to acknowledge that they won't wave a magic wand, they will teach YOU.


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## chestnut cob (16 September 2009)

Agree with Patches - the horse HAS to learn to get out of your space, whether he has barged you or not.


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## sleepingdragon10 (16 September 2009)

You know, i think i'm actually going to scream. You're ignorant, and incredibly rude. You're also paranoid...no one said you shouldn't have bought your horse, or looked down on you 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 People have taken time to type out a reply in an effort to help you, and ultimately stop your horse from injuring you further, and you are dismissing their responses as being bullshit because you don't like what you're reading ... Unbelievable!


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## Araminta (16 September 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
i am not getting useful answers here guys.  maybe its because i didnt ask the question right, but i am going to go back to the professionals and those that know him as i feel they will be able to give me the right guidance. thanks anyway. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry but I think you mean " I'm not getting the answers I want to hear" thats because what you are doing and saying are only going to make the situation worse and a lot of peeps on this forum are trying to tell you that. Please listen.

You have a new young horse who is pushing the boundries with you and trying his luck and you are letting him hurt you - thats mad! Please seek help before you really get hurt.


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## Shilasdair (16 September 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
He has been as good as gold tonight so I will just smile about you all and your horrible manners 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 I was right and will leave you awkward lot be for I live in the real world and don't need some silly little forum to big up my ego. Pathetic. Grow up 

[/ QUOTE ]






I love newbies.
Especially those who combine ignorance with arrogance. 
	
	
		
		
	


	




I like them better when they don't have a horse to suffer from their lack of knowledge though.  
	
	
		
		
	


	




S


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## Araminta (16 September 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
By the way, just got advice from my yard owner and he said it is not a big deal and will disappear once he gets exercised enough. And for the above person: to say his behaviour has deteriorated to a point where I have to seek advice on here, I never said it is a big thing. He started nudging, I wondered why that was all. If you lot want to jump on the bandwagon and all be horrible you do that. You made me feel like I had to defend myself right from the start! And then I am being judged as unfriendly. Thanks very much. 

[/ QUOTE ]

You never said it was a big thing - just that you needed help because you were being hurt and covered in bruises. I would say otherwise


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## bensababy (17 September 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Your YO said it would disappear when he gets enough exercise?  Wow, does he have a crystal ball?  Sorry to sound flippant, but that is not great advice.  YOU said that your horse is HURTING you, giving you bruises - if a person was giving you bruises would you be so easy going?  you don't have to defend yourself, but plase, see the bigger picture! 

[/ QUOTE ]

he has owned horses for 45 years, he has been a riding instructor for over 35 years and he has owned the riding school and the yard for over 
25 years. Do I trust him ? Yes I do. I wish I had asked him right away and not asked on here. Maybe it was the wrong question to ask. My intention was not to offend anyone, I felt I  had to defend myself. I appreciate I might have taken some advise here the wrong way but I don't feel you all try and understand where I am coming from and that's fine. I love my horse, I want us to have a great life together. I will find a solution if it doesn't stop. I won't sell him and I won't hit him. I have said that from the first post on. I was looking for advise on what else I can 
try. So lets all finish here or is anyone actually enjoying it? I'm not. Take care and thanks for trying. You might not believe it but I do appreciate your intentions of trying to help. It was just not the suitable answers for my case. H 

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow this guy must be pretty old now if hes been going for that long.


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## cptrayes (18 September 2009)

"he has owned horses for 45 years, he has been a riding instructor for over 35 years and he has owned the riding school and the yard for over 25 years."

And you are his customer paying him money and he wants to say what you want to hear so that you carry on paying him money. 

My guess is that meanwhile, when you are not there, a man (particularly a man) with 45 years experience is smacking your horse good and hard whenever he gets in his space. Yard staff simply don't put up with behaviour like that, they have seen the consequences too often.

If I am right, can you see how incredibly unfair it is to your  horse to have inconsistent treatment? You owe it to him to sort his behaviour with some firmly applied boundaries as quickly as you can, whatever that takes.


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## Scheherezade (18 September 2009)

My horse occasionally nudges me when I am leading him gently in my back, I just kind of raise my arms up very fast in his face andflick the lead rope so it kind of startles him and he jumps back, in the same way the horses do in the field.


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