# Puppy decisions. :-)



## Clodagh (25 February 2019)

Well my long awaited puppy was born on Saturday. And I don't think I now want it!
Lots of reasons...as you know (Gosh, I tell you people so much!) I really wanted a yellow and yes they are all black.
I have been sent more photos of the sire (finally - got them last night) and he is not my cup of tea. He is a proper old fashioned labrador and my OH thinks he is perfect, but he is too heavy for my taste.
They are Â£1000. I sort of expected that, but it is top dollar.

I have found a gorgeous litter of yellows that have 2 bitches unreserved. Geographically they are not very convenient. BUT
They are the right colour!
The parents both have very pretty heads. (Shallow, me).
The pedigrees are excellent.
They are Â£750.
Them's the positives.
Negatives - the bitch isn't elbow scored, nor is her mother. Sire has 0/0 as do his parents. 
The bitch is very young, only 2, so has actually only worked a half season. 

I know there arelots of puppies out there, but I have dilly dallied so long that I now need to hop to it a bit. We need a pup to be a reasonable age by the time the poults come in, or it is just left too long while we are out.

Thoughts?


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## Thistle (25 February 2019)

If you don't like the pups then walk away. As you know I bought Toast from unscored parents BUT I knew them and also knew the next generation back, all healthy working into old age. I also did some research on the KC website looking at hip and elbow scores of closely related dogs and decided to go with it. My hunch was correct, he was from good stock, have had him scored and elbows 0/0, hips 4/4, eyes clear.

Does the bitch or her mother have any litter brothers, sisters, aunties, uncles etc who have been scored. The KC site will tell you if they have. Have a play with the tools on the mykc page, you can look up litters etc.

I've found that most of the females related to Toast are the smaller type, fairly traditional but slim and quite fast. The dogs are generally a bit bigger, broader heads etc. Same applies to a few other lines I know too.

Ultimately whatever dog you get you'll love it, train it and work it just thensame.


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## Clodagh (25 February 2019)

Thistle said:



			Ultimately whatever dog you get you'll love it, train it and work it just thensame.
		
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I agree with tihs, but would like it to stay sound!  .
I spoke to him and he said she is tested, at 0, and he is going to phone the KC and see why she isn't on there. I looked up lots of relations and all are 0 bar one great grandsire (a well known FTCh) who was a 1. So, wagons roll, off to see the puppies!


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## CorvusCorax (25 February 2019)

Might just be a miss-spelling issue as the KC website requires utter accuracy (unless you mean the hip score is recorded and the elbow score isn't). If in doubt he should be able to send you a picture of the certificate from the vet, it's the yellow one I think, isn't it?
I was looking at a dog yesterday on a different system, with a breeding ban due to 'medium' ED. If you look at the pedigree, it was in the post IMO, as a lot of the dogs on the father's side have the borderline 'still permitted' score. Better to be safe than sorry!


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## Clodagh (25 February 2019)

CorvusCorax said:



			Might just be a miss-spelling issue as the KC website requires utter accuracy (unless you mean the hip score is recorded and the elbow score isn't). If in doubt he should be able to send you a picture of the certificate from the vet, it's the yellow one I think, isn't it?
I was looking at a dog yesterday on a different system, with a breeding ban due to 'medium' ED. If you look at the pedigree, it was in the post IMO, as a lot of the dogs on the father's side have the borderline 'still permitted' score. Better to be safe than sorry!
		
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Hip score is recorded. I hasve asked for a copy of the certificate, he said he has it there to show me.  Thank you.


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## Chiffy (25 February 2019)

Definitely donâ€™t have the black one.
There are plenty of reasons these yellow bitches will be more what you want. I would be feeling the same if I wanted a lab.
I had a flatcoat pup from a mum who was no yet three and flatcoats are later to mature than labs. My pup was great, healthy and strong.
Good luck .


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## eatmyshorts (25 February 2019)

I've been in a very similar situation recently. Ultimately the first litter are not what you are looking for. You may love whatever dog you get, but deep down would you harbour a grudge & wonder "What if?". Re the second litter, & the dam having missing health tests, could you look back her lines & historic results to give you some idea of likelyhood of risk? Is she from proven working lines herself? I've been offered several pups since the litter i'd set my heart on didn't happen, & although i could have made do & loved any pup, i'm just not compromising. Good luck whatever you decide!


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## Clodagh (25 February 2019)

This is actually the first ever dog I have chosen, for me and 'bugger the others' (if HHO allows that saying...). Before the workers we had rescue/rehomes, and the three we have now have all be chosen by members of the family, albeit I picked out the litters - so it really does have to tick all the boxes. I have a specific type of head that I like for instance. I know I will love the pup whwen it grows up, even if it is a snipey muzzled rat face, but if both parents are to my taste I stand a better chance. I am even petty enough to like a particular shade of yellow! Not white and not red. Sort of palomino. 
Also, no more pups from timid mothers, I need a robustly natured dog. I love Pen but she is much better with my OH, who puts less pressure on and is much calmer! Again, no guarantees but I can try. I like fairly leggy athletic ones, but not whippets (don't listen Pen, she is so pretty she gets away with it!).


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## Cinnamontoast (25 February 2019)

I absolutely understand. Brig and his brother were chosen for us, mixed litter because I wanted a brown one but the OH wanted black having grown up with one. When we chose the current two, I wanted a specific head/colouring (big white stripe) and temperament, so I really empathise. 

When are you going to see the litter? And 2 unreserved bitches? Youâ€™re very lucky there.


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## Clodagh (25 February 2019)

Cinnamontoast said:



			I absolutely understand. Brig and his brother were chosen for us, mixed litter because I wanted a brown one but the OH wanted black having grown up with one. When we chose the current two, I wanted a specific head/colouring (big white stripe) and temperament, so I really empathise.

When are you going to see the litter? And 2 unreserved bitches? Youâ€™re very lucky there.
		
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Ummm... Wales! No chance of any unreserved bitches in the home counties.


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## TheresaW (25 February 2019)

You know my thoughts ðŸ˜ƒ


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## Cinnamontoast (25 February 2019)

Brig and his brother were from near Wales. The OH is from Hereford. He wanted a particular type/size. They were from a hill top farm, middle of nowhere. 

Beware puppy farms, Clodagh, there are a sad amount in Wales, especially Carmarthenshire.


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## Clodagh (26 February 2019)

I'm going to see them. x


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## MurphysMinder (26 February 2019)

Beware puppy farms, Clodagh, there are a sad amount in Wales, especially Carmarthenshire.[/QUOTE]

Whilst I absolutely agree with you on this,  there are also many good breeders in Wales who wrongly get tarred with the puppy farm thing.  I don't think many puppy farmers hip and elbow score ! 
Bit late to this Clodagh but good luck with the puppy viewing,  fwiw I would have said as others re elbows,  check back on grand parents etc,  but if she is scored that is great.   My kc can be a bit precious about spelling of names etc so it could well be that is why her score isn't showing.


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## Clodagh (26 February 2019)

It must be like being an honest horse dealer in Kent! ðŸ˜Š


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## Thistle (26 February 2019)

Can you PM me the breeding, I'd love to check for relations!


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## BallyJ (26 February 2019)

We're on the hunt for a nice small, Red bitch and really struggling! got a couple in the pipeline fingers crossed they're in pup. if not i think we're going to look for another black bitch.

I can only seem to find big broad dogs?

Pleased to see you're going to see the yellows


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## QuobAsti (26 February 2019)

Have you looked on Champ Dogs https://www.champdogs.co.uk/


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## Clodagh (26 February 2019)

BallyJ said:



			We're on the hunt for a nice small, Red bitch and really struggling! got a couple in the pipeline fingers crossed they're in pup. if not i think we're going to look for another black bitch.

I can only seem to find big broad dogs?

Pleased to see you're going to see the yellows 

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You should be ok, every lab going seems to be fox r ed! My girl now is yellow.â˜º


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## Clodagh (26 February 2019)

QuobAsti said:



			Have you looked on Champ Dogs https://www.champdogs.co.uk/

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Nothing of interest on there, t hat I could see.ðŸ˜Š . Thank you though


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## Cinnamontoast (26 February 2019)

You have WiFi, C?!


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## twiggy2 (26 February 2019)

Look forward to an update.
When are you seeing them?


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## Clodagh (27 February 2019)

Cinnamontoast said:



			You have WiFi, C?!
		
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Better than at home!


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## Clodagh (27 February 2019)

twiggy2 said:



			Look forward to an update.
When are you seeing them?
		
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Thursday.tbh I am nuts. It's the return trip to collect one that will be a pita.


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## twiggy2 (27 February 2019)

Your not nuts, if its the right one its just 2 trips for the whole of the dogs lifetime.
Fingers crossed for you.


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## BallyJ (27 February 2019)

Clodagh said:



			You should be ok, every lab going seems to be fox r ed! My girl now is yellow.â˜º
		
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Just not Health checked or registered! or already reserved


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## texas (27 February 2019)

Wales is nothing! My friends flew to Scotland with a crate and hired a car back to Essex to collect their black lab pup last year! Hope it goes well.


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## Clodagh (27 February 2019)

BallyJ said:



			Just not Health checked or registered! or already reserved 

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Fair point! Good luck.


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## Clodagh (27 February 2019)

Well we are loving Wales. Shamefully my mother is Welsh and I have never been here since I was old enough to remember. Seeing pups tomorrow.


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## Clodagh (27 February 2019)

BallyJ said:



			We're on the hunt for a nice small, Red bitch and really struggling! got a couple in the pipeline fingers crossed they're in pup. if not i think we're going to look for another black bitch.

I can only seem to find big broad dogs?

Pleased to see you're going to see the yellows 

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Are you on fb?


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## Amymay (27 February 2019)

Clodagh said:



			Well we are loving Wales. Shamefully my mother is Welsh and I have never been here since I was old enough to remember. Seeing pups tomorrow.
		
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What part t are you in??


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## Shady (27 February 2019)

Clodagh said:



			Thursday.tbh I am nuts. It's the return trip to collect one that will be a pita.
		
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Not nuts at all Clodagh. My OH bought a transit van in the UK and flew back Bristol , picked it up , bought a big cage, all so we could buy 2 kittens from the only Oriental breeder I trusted in the UK. Drove it back over here and sold it later for a profit. Kittens were /are awesome!
I totally understand about a certain look that you prefer, I am the same with Weims  and certain cat breeds .
I'm now looking forward to hearing how you get on tomorrow! good luck and take some pics pretty please


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## Cinnamontoast (27 February 2019)

You are ridiculously far from Essex! On the coast!


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## Clodagh (27 February 2019)

amymay said:



			What part t are you in??
		
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Aberaeron. It is so beautiful.


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## Amymay (27 February 2019)

Clodagh said:



			Aberaeron. It is so beautiful.
		
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20 mins up the road from me!!!!

You could have come for a cuppa!!!!!


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## Clodagh (28 February 2019)

amymay said:



			20 mins up the road from me!!!!

You could have come for a cuppa!!!!!
		
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That's so funny, I thought you were down near Cardiff. No idea why I thought that!


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## Amymay (28 February 2019)

I used to be Clodagh xx


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## Thistle (28 February 2019)

We're waiting for pictures!


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## BallyJ (28 February 2019)

Waiting impatiently


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## Clodagh (28 February 2019)

Well I bought her. No pics I'm afraid! Very level litter, beautifully kept. He had about 8 labs, he picks up four days a week in the season. The whole set up was spotless. The bitch was a smiler, I love a smiley dog! 
I had choice of two and there was nothing between them but the one I got attacked my boots the most. I pick her up next Friday. I will soon be saying I'm never getting another pup!


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## ester (28 February 2019)

No pics! You are an awful person, you best make up for it after next Friday


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## Clodagh (28 February 2019)

ester said:



			No pics! You are an awful person, you best make up for it after next Friday 

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You will be begging for no more! Tbh I am not a puppy person, yes they are cute but I like them more as grown ups.


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## ester (28 February 2019)

From behind a computer screen they are lovely! ðŸ˜‚


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## Chiffy (28 February 2019)

Great news Clodagh, glad you found what you wanted, worth the distance.
I remember you struggling with Pen but she has turned out a treat!


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## TheresaW (28 February 2019)

Fantastic x


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## Thistle (28 February 2019)

Clodagh said:



			Well I bought her. No pics I'm afraid! Very level litter, beautifully kept. He had about 8 labs, he picks up four days a week in the season. The whole set up was spotless. The bitch was a smiler, I love a smiley dog!
I had choice of two and there was nothing between them but the one I got attacked my boots the most. I pick her up next Friday. I will soon be saying I'm never getting another pup!
		
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They sound fabulous. I look forward to meeting her soon. we haven't done lunch for ages!


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## Clodagh (28 February 2019)

Now, names.


Thistle said:



			They sound fabulous. I look forward to meeting her soon. we haven't done lunch for ages!
		
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I thought that just the other day!!


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## Clodagh (28 February 2019)

Chiffy said:



			Great news Clodagh, glad you found what you wanted, worth the distance.
I remember you struggling with Pen but she has turned out a treat!
		
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That just shows how you blank things out, my oh just said 'well Pen was never any trouble'


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## Cinnamontoast (28 February 2019)

Iâ€™m dying to see her! So glad it was worth the trip.


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## BallyJ (4 March 2019)

Clodagh said:



			Fair point! Good luck.
		
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I *think* we've found one!! Just reserving the 4th Bitch though so fingers crossed she has that many


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## Clodagh (4 March 2019)

BallyJ said:



			I *think* we've found one!! Just reserving the 4th Bitch though so fingers crossed she has that many
		
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When are they due?


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## BallyJ (4 March 2019)

1st week in April! so will be home mid-June which is perfect timing for us


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## Clodagh (4 March 2019)

BallyJ said:



			1st week in April! so will be home mid-June which is perfect timing for us
		
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Best of luck.


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## eatmyshorts (5 March 2019)

So glad to hear you went with your heart! Looking forward to pics! I'm currently trying to talk myself out of a puppy from Slovakia! Logistically a nightmare!


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## Clodagh (5 March 2019)

eatmyshorts said:



			So glad to hear you went with your heart! Looking forward to pics! I'm currently trying to talk myself out of a puppy from Slovakia! Logistically a nightmare!
		
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OK so Wales is really quite simple compared to that!


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## BallyJ (26 March 2019)

Clodagh said:



			Best of luck.
		
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Sorry for dragging up an old thread!! Just to update - they've arrived! and we have one  10weeks to go and she'll be home!! 

Deciding a name now


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## Clodagh (26 March 2019)

BallyJ said:



			Sorry for dragging up an old thread!! Just to update - they've arrived! and we have one  10weeks to go and she'll be home!!

Deciding a name now 

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That is so brilliant! Is she very dark? How many bitches did she have?


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## Clodagh (26 March 2019)

And can you tell me the bitches name, so I can tell Alan? (If you don't mind, and pm if you prefer).


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## BallyJ (26 March 2019)

Not super dark just yet - but definitely not yellow!
 She had 5 bitches and 3 Dogs so we have a couple to choose from  

What age would you recommend we go over? i'm thinking 4/5 weeks so they're developing personalities?


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## Clodagh (26 March 2019)

Yes, before that they all look like mole rats! Mind you, if you go more than once the one that did all the things the 'right' puppy is meant to do the first time will be asleep or hiding the second time.  
I had a pick of two to get Ffee and chose her as she had a better head, as much as you can tell in a pup. Pen (OH's black bitch) I chose because she fell sleep on my foot. I am very unscientific! If the bitch is calm and pleasant her whole litter probably will be, choosing is so difficult!


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## Moobli (27 March 2019)

Clodagh said:



			That just shows how you blank things out, my oh just said 'well Pen was never any trouble'
		
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Ha ha it is why we continue to put ourselves through the hassle of puppies!


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## Moobli (27 March 2019)

More puppies, very exciting.  I like to meet pups at 6 weeks but it is really pot luck any way as the confident or shy pups in a litter may not end up that way as adults.  I would obviously steer clear from a very nervous pup but would hope to not see that in a litter I was choosing from anyway.  I had a choice of ten, well eight if you discount the two bitches, but I could really have just closed my eyes and picked any as they were all so uniform.  Look forward to hearing more and seeing photos -you'll have to make up for Clodagh's lack of pics


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## BallyJ (27 March 2019)

Lots of puppy spam! don't worry  

Glad we're thinking the same  Just choosing names now!! and then the long wait......


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## CorvusCorax (27 March 2019)

Go to see at 4-5 weeks, take home at 8-9 weeks.


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## Clodagh (27 March 2019)

CorvusCorax said:



			Go to see at 4-5 weeks, take home at 8-9 weeks.
		
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Historically I always liked a 7 week take home, but the 8 weeks seems good enough now I am used to it. 
10 weeks does seem a long wait.


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## CorvusCorax (27 March 2019)

Can only speak about personal experience, but nothing I've seen about dogs who have been taken home at 6-7 weeks would convince me that it's the right thing to do. My older dog was obtained at six weeks (not by me) and there are definitely issues there. It's like he doesn't know how to 'dog'. And have seen many others who are very clingy to the human and lack independence.


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## Clodagh (27 March 2019)

Our two older labs were 7 weeks, it was the norm back in the day for labs. Both fine, but came home to a house full of dogs, maybe that helped.


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## Moobli (27 March 2019)

I read somewhere recently that 8-11 weeks is when lots of pups go through a fear impact period so might not bounce back as easily from the change of home or any scares they receive, which would suggest either 7 weeks or even 12 weeks might be better for the transition into a new home.  Not sure of the science behind this thinking though.  I have brought pups home at 7 weeks and 8 weeks.


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## minesadouble (27 March 2019)

WorkingGSD said:



			I read somewhere recently that 8-11 weeks is when lots of pups go through a fear impact period so might not bounce back as easily from the change of home or any scares they receive, which would suggest either 7 weeks or even 12 weeks might be better for the transition into a new home.  Not sure of the science behind this thinking though.  I have brought pups home at 7 weeks and 8 weeks.
		
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I've read that too. Our Vizsla came to us at 7 weeks and has never had any issues.


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## Clodagh (27 March 2019)

Of our three older bitches, 2 had nervous mothers and they themselves are very sensitive. Tawny's mum was a very robust character. I found Tawny so much easier than the other two - I trained them all - that I was determined not to look beyond the bitch this time. I didn't even see the pups until I had spent some time with Mum (they were just weaned so she was seperate).
So I think the age of the pup is perhaps not as important as the type of socialisation they have been getting and the parental example.


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## TheresaW (27 March 2019)

We brought Luna home at 10 weeks. Her brothers and sisters had all gone by then. She has always been fine, but she did have Aled at home. She doesnâ€™t like being on her own at home at all (with us there), so when Bo goes to be neutered it should be fun!


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## Moobli (27 March 2019)

Clodagh said:



			Of our three older bitches, 2 had nervous mothers and they themselves are very sensitive. Tawny's mum was a very robust character. I found Tawny so much easier than the other two - I trained them all - that I was determined not to look beyond the bitch this time. I didn't even see the pups until I had spent some time with Mum (they were just weaned so she was seperate).
So I think the age of the pup is perhaps not as important as the type of socialisation they have been getting and the parental example.
		
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And genetics ...


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## Clodagh (27 March 2019)

WorkingGSD said:



			And genetics ...
		
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Should have said that. ðŸ˜Š.


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## Cinnamontoast (27 March 2019)

Our first two came home at a day or so under 7 weeks and were fabulous, easy as anything. Mum was a delight, big dog was the spit of her. Younger two came home at 9 (we suspect 10) weeks. Huge, ill-behaved louts. I think we missed a vital socialisation period. They are stupidly bonded to us, probably mostly due to us wanting cuddly dogs above all.


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## Clodagh (23 April 2019)

BallyJ said:



			Lots of puppy spam! don't worry 

Glad we're thinking the same  Just choosing names now!! and then the long wait......
		
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It must be soon? Any news?
ETA I just checked your posts and not yet - but have you been to see her?


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## BallyJ (24 April 2019)

Clodagh said:



			It must be soon? Any news?
ETA I just checked your posts and not yet - but have you been to see her?
		
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going to see her on Sunday  pick up on the 19th


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## Clodagh (24 April 2019)

BallyJ said:



			going to see her on Sunday  pick up on the 19th
		
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I hope you are better at photos than I am!


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## Pearlsasinger (25 April 2019)

Just over 50 years ago my family went to choose 2 Labrador bitch puppies.  They were 5 1/2 weeks old, the breeder suggested that as they were going together we took them home with us, rather than leaving them until 6 weeks, which was the norm at that time.  They were fabulous dogs in any way you can imagine, except that one of them was an escape artist and we spent quite a lot of time searching the village for her when she was an adult. We did eventually manage to make the garden Houdini proof. 

 I often think that we leave pups with the dam for too long as a matter of course, these days and don't give the new owner time to socialise them before the optimum period is over.


Exciting times, OP!


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## BallyJ (25 April 2019)

Clodagh said:



			I hope you are better at photos than I am!
		
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Lots of photos!


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## BallyJ (25 April 2019)

Pearlsasinger said:



			Just over 50 years ago my family went to choose 2 Labrador bitch puppies.  They were 5 1/2 weeks old, the breeder suggested that as they were going together we took them home with us, rather than leaving them until 6 weeks, which was the norm at that time.  They were fabulous dogs in any way you can imagine, except that one of them was an escape artist and we spent quite a lot of time searching the village for her when she was an adult. We did eventually manage to make the garden Houdini proof.

I often think that we leave pups with the dam for too long as a matter of course, these days and don't give the new owner time to socialise them before the optimum period is over.


Exciting times, OP!
		
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Its a little annoying we won't be allowed to collect until 9 weeks! which to me seems a little too old.

 I collected my JRT at 6 weeks and shes turned out Fab - she never leaves my side and is obedient (as obedient as a terrier can be anyway) and gets on great with other dogs.

But the labs will be microchipped and had first vaccines which is useful but not sure if its worth the extra wait.


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## Clodagh (25 April 2019)

As legally it is 8 weeks now, 9 is not too bad. At least the breeder isn't trying to save a buck by farming them out early. 
I have said this before, but Pen and Ffee were both 8 weeks old and we have had no problems at all with socialisation, there is so little you can do before that anyway that as long as the breeder makes a bit of an effort with them they hit the ground running.


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## CorvusCorax (25 April 2019)

As I've said before, all the dogs I've seen collected at six weeks were very clingy and insecure. Might be a breed specific thing and it was usually so that the breeder didn't have to spend on an extra two weeks worth of food.


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## Cinnamontoast (25 April 2019)

Pearlsasinger said:



			Just over 50 years ago my family went to choose 2 Labrador bitch puppies.  They were 5 1/2 weeks old, the breeder suggested that as they were going together we took them home with us, rather than leaving them until 6 weeks, which was the norm at that time.  They were fabulous dogs in any way you can imagine, except that one of them was an escape artist and we spent quite a lot of time searching the village for her when she was an adult. We did eventually manage to make the garden Houdini proof.

I often think that we leave pups with the dam for too long as a matter of course, these days and don't give the new owner time to socialise them before the optimum period is over.


Exciting times, OP!
		
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I think by about 6 weeks, the majority of dams have had enough, pups are weaned and bite inhibition is in place. I think the socialization period (with humans) is so vital, I think 7 weeks is fine.


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## splashgirl45 (25 April 2019)

i collected my terrier at 9 weeks, carried him with me when i walked my other one so he was confident around people ,dog,cars and loud noises before he was allowed out on the floor after his jabs.  never had a problem with him, happy to be left, slept through the night from day 1,  only real problem (apart from being a terrier!!!) was housetraining, i struggled a bit but after using a bit of common sense got it sorted quite quickly...


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## TheresaW (26 April 2019)

We got Luna at almost 10 weeks. We could have taken her at 8, but we waited until we had time off to settle her in etc. She is almost 2 now, and is very confident girl. We did have a much older and wiser dog at home, not sure how much he helped.


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## Pearlsasinger (26 April 2019)

Cinnamontoast said:



			I think by about 6 weeks, the majority of dams have had enough, pups are weaned and bite inhibition is in place. I think the socialization period (with humans) is so vital, I think 7 weeks is fine.
		
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We collected the Rottweilers at 6 weeks.  We made a definite effort to socialise them as much as possible, because the breed is known to be fear aggressive. 
We didn't have adult dogs at home but they met 3 adult dogs and their associated people regularly and still defer to the Staffy who is now about 1/4 of their size.  As soon as they were able, post- vaccine, they were taken out and about - they went to Bramham 2 days after they were 'released'.  They thought it had all been organised as a Rottweiler meet-and-greet!

I was surprised to learn that it is now illegal to sell a pup before it is 8 weeks old, I'm not sure what research this change was based on.


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## Cinnamontoast (26 April 2019)

Pearlsasinger said:



			I was surprised to learn that it is now illegal to sell a pup before it is 8 weeks old, I'm not sure what research this change was based on.
		
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Possibly someone who's never had anything to do with dogs? I get it, I think it's possibly to support good breeders rather than those who churn out endless litters of the latest doodlesshitpoo and sell them asap for profit having done no health tests, but for some breeds, not all, 7 weeks is fine, Imo. 

On a totally unrelated note, was it the same person who decided pigeons and corvids can no longer be treated as pests? So now the yo can't shoot the ones that are taking over the boxes at the yard. Odd decision.


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## Pearlsasinger (26 April 2019)

Cinnamontoast said:



			Possibly someone who's never had anything to do with dogs? I get it, I think it's possibly to support good breeders rather than those who churn out endless litters of the latest doodlesshitpoo and sell them asap for profit having done no health tests, but for some breeds, not all, 7 weeks is fine, Imo.

On a totally unrelated note, was it the same person who decided pigeons and corvids can no longer be treated as pests? So now the yo can't shoot the ones that are taking over the boxes at the yard. Odd decision.
		
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I understand that was Chris Packham - who hasn't a bloody clue!


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## Cinnamontoast (26 April 2019)

But who agreed to pass a law about it?! Seems mad. Will we not be allowed to cull rabbits next?


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## ester (26 April 2019)

You can shoot them it's just that the general licences have been removed so the specific ones has to be used. Plenty available. 
https://www.gov.uk/government/colle...jdw-HrSE8SLfJdmgF9JVqTDNSkzdecaasTkpgzisAzcEc


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## {97702} (26 April 2019)

ester said:



			You can shoot them it's just that the general licences have been removed so the specific ones has to be used. Plenty available. 
https://www.gov.uk/government/colle...jdw-HrSE8SLfJdmgF9JVqTDNSkzdecaasTkpgzisAzcEc

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Plenty available when you have gone through all the faff of re-applying for something you already had..... itâ€™s a total farce, local farmers are furious around me


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## ester (26 April 2019)

Whereas I know plenty of people who thought the general licences were not a great concept. I'm yet to meet a farmer who likes doing paperwork.

I just don't think people should be saying you can't shoot them when you can, meanwhile it is of course all Chris Packham's fault.


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## MotherOfChickens (26 April 2019)

Quarrie came home at 10 weeks, the setter at 14 weeks-no problems with either although Quarrie suffered quite badly from car sickness for a couple of months (the setter did a bit but not for as long) and was also a little harder to teach to be alone.


as for crows, I wish the local farmers would shoot them but I've yet to meet these mythical farmers that have everything shot/poison everything-maybe Scottish hill farmers are soft lol. I am sure they'd like to be able to get rid of some ravens though.


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## ester (26 April 2019)

The people I have known doing it haven't been farmers but people who want to shoot so get a licence and pimp themselves out to farmers/try and get permission to shoot in particular places regardless of threat.


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## MotherOfChickens (26 April 2019)

ester said:



			The people I have known doing it haven't been farmers but people who want to shoot so get a licence and pimp themselves out to farmers/try and get permission to shoot in particular places regardless of threat.
		
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when I've broached it with them (over two years the crows and ravens drove me to distraction stealing eggs although I've found ways of dealing with them now) they said live and let live and that the crows mostly just clean stuff up rather than cause an issue like the ravens do. So expect people ask but they aren't bothered.


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## ester (26 April 2019)

on another unrelated note more or less gave an excellent analysis of 'insect armageddon' today


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## CorvusCorax (26 April 2019)

It's just new rules. People don't like new rules before/when they're being introduced, but everyone gets used to it eventually. 
You should try getting a gun licence at all in certain parts of the world, you need to be a rocket scientist to fill in some of the forms.


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## Clodagh (12 May 2019)

BallyJ said:



			Its a little annoying we won't be allowed to collect until 9 weeks! which to me seems a little too old.

I collected my JRT at 6 weeks and shes turned out Fab - she never leaves my side and is obedient (as obedient as a terrier can be anyway) and gets on great with other dogs.

But the labs will be microchipped and had first vaccines which is useful but not sure if its worth the extra wait.
		
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Hellooo...Photos!?


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## BallyJ (12 May 2019)

Clodagh said:



			Hellooo...Photos!?
		
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Sorryyyy!


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## BallyJ (12 May 2019)

Thatâ€™s the breeder in the photo! And their neutered male in the back ground! Pick her up on Sunday after sheâ€™s had her jab on Saturday- does anyone have any info on Lepto 4 vs Lepto 2? Theyâ€™re having 4 but our vets secretary seems to think it must be given exactly 2 weeks later is this correct?


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## {97702} (12 May 2019)

Yes with Lepto 4 you have a first dose then a second 2 weeks later the first time - after that it is just annually. Iâ€™m having two adult rescues done at the moment as they came to me only with Lepto 2, they have theirs 4 weeks apart as adults! (confusing!)

Puppy is just gorgeous ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜


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## BallyJ (12 May 2019)

Levrier said:



			Yes with Lepto 4 you have a first dose then a second 2 weeks later the first time - after that it is just annually. Iâ€™m having two adult rescues done at the moment as they came to me only with Lepto 2, they have theirs 4 weeks apart as adults! (confusing!)

Puppy is just gorgeous ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜
		
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Glad to hear you use 4 - the secretary was rather unprofessional and told me to â€˜google itâ€™ and I would find all I needed - sheâ€™s seen too many side effects to talk to me about it! 

I was there with a lame terrier so couldnâ€™t speak to the vet, but Iâ€™m taking her in for an X-ray Wednesday so will chat to him then! 

She is lovely - getting very excited now


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## blackcob (12 May 2019)

I'm glad we're enforcing obligatory photos 

L4 is four week interval for puppies too - it's the DHP that can be repeated after two.

ETA: Be sure to tell the vet that his receptionist is peddling tin foil hat anti vax nonsense...!


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## BallyJ (12 May 2019)

Sorry yes! Sheâ€™ll have 1 on the 18th May and the second on the 15th June


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## {97702} (12 May 2019)

Oops so sorry, I nearly googled to check then thought that 2 weeks for puppies sounded right! Thanks BC ðŸ˜Š

I had quite a lot of surprise from the rescue that Iâ€™ve insisted on updating mine to Lepto 4 but there have been cases in the area and apparently (according to my vet) the blummin wild boar have Lepto ðŸ˜³ whoever released those things into the forest has so much to answer for....**sidetracks off into muttering about wild boar**.... ðŸ™„


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## Clodagh (12 May 2019)

Mine all have lepto 4. No side effects.
That receptionist is so far out of order! Whatever her personal opinion she should not be saying things like that. 
The pup is gorgeous, a lovely 'bouffy' head, especially on a bitch. So many fox reds have snipey heads, yours looks lovely.


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## Clodagh (12 May 2019)

Levrier said:



			Oops so sorry, I nearly googled to check then thought that 2 weeks for puppies sounded right! Thanks BC ðŸ˜Š

I had quite a lot of surprise from the rescue that Iâ€™ve insisted on updating mine to Lepto 4 but there have been cases in the area and apparently (according to my vet) the blummin wild boar have Lepto ðŸ˜³ whoever released those things into the forest has so much to answer for....**sidetracks off into muttering about wild boar**.... ðŸ™„
		
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I'm sure Millie would be up for some wild boar coursing.


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## {97702} (12 May 2019)

Clodagh said:



			I'm sure Millie would be up for some wild boar coursing. 

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Iâ€™m quite sure she would ðŸ˜± there have been a few cases of them ripping open greyhounds and lurchers though so she is hopefully never going to get the chance ðŸ˜‚

She was very miffed that I wouldnâ€™t let her off the lead on our walk this morning, there were muntjac yelling all the time we were there!


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## Stiff Knees (12 May 2019)

Ours have all had Lepto 4 without displaying any side effects. I'm new to the forum so I hope you don't mind me commenting. Your new pup is lovely, so pretty. ðŸ˜â¤ï¸


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## Blazingsaddles (13 May 2019)

Moobli said:



			I read somewhere recently that 8-11 weeks is when lots of pups go through a fear impact period so might not bounce back as easily from the change of home or any scares they receive, which would suggest either 7 weeks or even 12 weeks might be better for the transition into a new home.  Not sure of the science behind this thinking though.  I have brought pups home at 7 weeks and 8 weeks.
		
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Iâ€™ve brought pups home as early as five weeksðŸ˜®! Never had an issue. The pups that I have taken on at 6/7 months - thatâ€™s a different story!


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## Clodagh (13 May 2019)

Fee is 16 weeks now and totally petrified of everything. Two weeks ago she loved everyone, now they are very, very scarey!


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