# Piece on Radio 4 now (8.30)



## skewbaldpony (10 August 2012)

all about how expensive dressage horses are.

Lovely gary richardson pointing out how expensive the horses are. Commentator John (Holt?) jokes that they're out of his price range.

No one points out that business interests are involved and the lottery funding, and the horses will now be sold to pay the bills.

Everyone goes away with the impression that dressage is for toffs. 

I now officially give up my one woman campaign against this drivel.

I shall just walk the dog and disappear once again into obscurity!


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## quirky (10 August 2012)

skewbaldpony said:



			all about how expensive dressage horses are.
		
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Well they are , it cannot be denied.


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## skewbaldpony (10 August 2012)

quirky said:



			Well they are , it cannot be denied.
		
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so are F1 cars. But the BBC don't say 'Tally HO' when Jensen Button wins a race.

Charlotte's mummy didn't buy Valegro out of her clothing allowance. Which is the public perception. Was my point.


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## quirky (10 August 2012)

skewbaldpony said:



			so are F1 cars. But the BBC don't say 'Tally HO' when Jensen Button wins a race.

Charlotte's mummy didn't buy Valegro out of her clothing allowance. Which is the public perception. Was my point.
		
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Tally Ho isn't said at F1 because it is a phrase exclusively associated with fox hunting .

Charlotte does not own Valegro and I doubt her 'mummy' could afford to buy him even if she sold her house many times over .

I think you need to gain some perspective.
Rightly or wrongly, the layman's view of dressage is probably not far wrong.


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## skewbaldpony (10 August 2012)

quirky said:



			Tally Ho isn't said at F1 because it is a phrase exclusively associated with fox hunting .

Charlotte does not own Valegro and I doubt her 'mummy' could afford to buy him even if she sold her house many times over .

I think you need to gain some perspective.
Rightly or wrongly, the layman's view of dressage is probably not far wrong.
		
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Well pardon me for thinking, I'm sure.
I *KNOW* both of the obvious statements above to be true, and will attempt to remove all trace of irony from any future posts.

So you agree that dressage is 'for toffs' and 'like Crufts' and 'not a proper sport'?

I don't.  But then, I just worked in the sport for ten years so what would I know.


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## quirky (10 August 2012)

skewbaldpony said:



			So you agree that dressage is 'for toffs' and 'like Crufts' and 'not a proper sport'?
		
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No  but I would not be considered a layman


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## Ibblebibble (10 August 2012)

whilst it does get a bit tedious when everyone assumes dressage and horses in general are for toffs we are all guilty of stereotyping sports
Golf is for sad men in silly clothes, footballers are overpaid brainless twits, etc etc.
I've given up argueing the point with people who can't see past the stereotype, if someone says 'you must be rich because you have horses' i just reply 'yep, rolling in it' shuts them up as they were looking for an arguement and didn't get one


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## Bernster (10 August 2012)

Sigh, I know.  It's a theme that's being played out across a number of threads and sites.  Hadn't realised just how poorly it's looked on by non riders but then I suppose I don't really hang out with people who think I'm a stuck up elitist toff.

Am keeping away from reading comments now as it's too depressing although nice to see some more sensible commentary eg on the bbc news website responding to some of the more ignorant remarks.


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## inamac (10 August 2012)

Yes, horses are expensive.  So are competition bikes (Chris Hoy's competition bike cost £15,000), and modern archery bows. Sailing has even higher 'equipment' costs (though I suppose that is 'elitist' too?).  The important thing in sport is not the cost of the 'equipment', but the dedication and practice needed to achieve success.


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## hairycob (10 August 2012)

I think you'll find you need a teeny bit more than £15k to buy Uthopia or Valegro.


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## inamac (10 August 2012)

hairycob said:



			I think you'll find you need a teeny bit more than £15k to buy Uthopia or Valegro.
		
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True - you do now.  But no competitor starts with top-level equipment.  You learn on what you can afford.  In that respect equestrianism is no more 'expensive' or 'elitist' than cycling or sailing or archery.

Even runners need coaches and training facilities.


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## Goldenstar (10 August 2012)

It's just not worth getting in a sweat about , the media think that all riders are rich and have of course only got where they are because they are loaded.
But they miss the most interesting story which is that Carl Hester is a enormously talented self made man who has built a 'buisness 'from nothing but his own talent and can take on the continental dressage machine on horses produced in Britain yes people have helped and supported him but he made this happen by his own hard work and he has generous nurtured Charottes huge talent too. 
When the horses are sold there will be a big fuss but how else can someone whose not born seriously weathly do it ? Unless you find a rich patron but then you are not paddling your own canoe.
That's the real story but theybare lazy journists I mean one even thought Charlotte had been a jockey !!!! And thought Carl had worked for Charlottes father it takes the biscuit .
It's like sending me to interview Usain Bolt and me saying well Mr Bolt what's it you do run fast in a slight curve for less than ten seconds that does not sound very hard.


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## Mondy (11 August 2012)

Goldenstar said:



			... Carl Hester is a enormously talented self made man who has built a 'buisness 'from nothing but his own talent....
		
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I understand your point but this is not strictly true. He was spotted by the right people, taught by the right people, and given horses by the right people.

This Olympics actually suggests that not only is dressage absurdly subjective, you can actually buy your way into Olympic participation. Both girls are talented but neither Donnperignon nor Painted Black's riders would have been in London if their families had not spend a considerable amount on horses. 

That I wish the media would pay more attention to the corruption in FEI or silver medal-winning abuse is another matter.


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## skewbaldpony (11 August 2012)

Mondy said:



			I understand your point but this is not strictly true. He was spotted by the right people, taught by the right people, and given horses by the right people.

This Olympics actually suggests that not only is dressage absurdly subjective, you can actually buy your way into Olympic participation. Both girls are talented but neither Donnperignon nor Painted Black's riders would have been in London if their families had not spend a considerable amount on horses. 

That I wish the media would pay more attention to the corruption in FEI or silver medal-winning abuse is another matter.
		
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But surely, either subjective judging is allowed at the Olympics, or not? If not, gymnastics will have to go too, among other things.

And all of the above except the horse part applies to all sports, surely?

Carl, like many other successful people, never mind sportsmen, would not have been spotted by anyone if he'd sat on Sark picking his nose and claiming benefits. 

The Saudis wouldn't have been where they were in the showjumping without money, but then they have so much, they could excel in pretty much what they choose!

The talented tennis player without the pushy parent with the deep pockets doesn't get as far as the one with. It's how it is. There aren't many German long distance runners, and there aren't a lot of Kenyan dressage riders. The world is how it is.

But I agree about the abuse. Shocking. I also think Carl was marked down to avoid the looming spectrum of a GB 1,2,3, which was simply not to be countenanced.


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## hairycob (11 August 2012)

True an beginner level horse will cost a lot less than an olympic level one, but a beginner pair of running shoes can be less than £50 so it's all relative. And the bike price being compared WAS for an Olympic level job.
Everybody who competes needs to train, be coached & pay entry fees, so no difference there, but a pair of running shoes don't need to be fed, vaccinated, wormed etc & if you are injured etc can just be left in a cupboard cost free for the duration. You also can get to athletic meets in an ancient Ford Fiesta. Even the 18yo Pajero + IFW505 combination that I use is a significant extra cost.
Spin it how you like equestrian sports are expensive, even if you hack out on a bog pony, livery costs alone take a fair whack of most peoples wages.


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## AndySpooner (11 August 2012)

The horses are expensive, but people think that you can buy success by spending money, the truth is you cannot buy the talent of rider's like Carl and Charlotte.
Expensive horses and force and you go down the road of AvG, AC and so many others, never a pretty sight.
When the governing body breaks down and allows cheating like Rollkur, forget about talent, money will win every time.

Support criticism of the FEI, we need change.


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