# Animal Communicators - who's convinced?



## FionaM12 (24 October 2011)

On another thread here, people got talking about Animal Communicators. I thought I'd start another thread about it rather than hi-jacking that thread even further!

I'm on the fence, having never met an AC or seen one in action. But my natural scepticism means I find the idea hard to swallow. What do others think? 

There's a really sad case of a lost/stolen dog near where I live. It's adoring owners are doing everything they can to get it back: maximum publicity, press, tv, radio, offering huge reward, and now they've got an AC on the case. I don't think the AC has never met the missing dog, but has described the place she believes the missing dog's at, and a person allegedly connected with its disappearance.

On the Facebook group about the dog, there are lots of people concentrating on "finding" the place/person described by the AC. It makes me sad because, deperately sorry as I am for the owners, I cannot believe the AC can be in touch with the dog and receiving information from it.

Or, am I just a cynical grumpy old woman who's not half an open-minded as she thinks she is?


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## FanyDuChamp (24 October 2011)

I was a bit dubious but I had Captain "read" and it was incredibly accurate, things I had never told any one, certainly not the AC. Fany was also read and again was accurate. So yes I am convinced but  I think a lot of people jump on the band wagon, who are fakes.
FDC


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## Dancing Queen (24 October 2011)

personally i feel that AC and psychics are a load of twaddle.

however people need to take comfort where they can, if that is meeting and having dealings with these people then fair enough, that is their choice and their  own money they are spending - not mine.


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## quirky (24 October 2011)

I was massively sceptical but now I'm not .

My mare indicated a problem to the AC that showed no clinical symptoms and something the vet had not even considered.
As she went to a referral vet, I asked them to x-ray this area and sure enough, there was a problem there that the vet believes she has probably had since birth  .

Weird but true .

Would I get it done again?
Probably not but it was useful for not much money spent .

OP - Is that Brook you are on about?


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## Emilieu (24 October 2011)

I've been looking in to it a bit as I am thinking of having my boy read (just out of curiosity) and the one I'm thinking of using says they do not do missing pets as it can give false hope and lead you in the wrong direction. Feel for the dog's owners, I was nearly at the stage with my missing moggy earlier this year. Hope it shows up!


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## FionaM12 (24 October 2011)

Quirky I'll pm you.


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## tallyho! (24 October 2011)

I'm convinced although I didn't need much convincing. It is used where I grew up as a normal thing and I remember my Grandma found her stolen jewellery through a medium/communicator/whatever you wanna call it and found the culprit! Her foster child of all people!

Never really paid much attention to it, I just accept that it's "there". 

Have used it myself to ask my horse things and have been impressed with the quality and clarity of the 'reading'. I regularly talk to my horse (and cat) as a result... not directly, we don't have a conversation, I don't have a gift, but I think he gets the jist of what I'm trying to get across through voice pitch or body language I don't know. All I know is that we have a good relationship.

It is what it is. It's a gift and not an exact science. I think if you know someone who can communicate, then give it a go, what harm can it do? There are bogus people out there, which makes it hard to trust the practice. There is no way to tell, not that I know of until you see proof. So, you go by recommendations. 

So yes, sorry to ramble, it should be accepted, I find it weird people are so anti... but hey, each to their own and the fakes should be wiped out! I just wish I had a Dr. Dolittle gift 

I wish I could communicate with humans as well as I do with animals


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## Merry Crisis (24 October 2011)

I think that they would have to be the last resort, when your own mind and rationalisation has has been lost. I cannot say that I would NEVER use one as I have never been in that situation. So I suppose that I am open minded on the subject.


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## lovinyourwork (24 October 2011)

I am a cynic but did meet a lady who was a communicator and she did it with pictures, she said she would be happy to demonstrate for free so i emailed a pic of my cat and 2 horses that i shared with my mum and she got their characters pretty spot on, not sure whether she could see it in the photo!

i was particually interested in what she said about our mare, she was a rescue job when we got her and a stroppy cow, me and her had a love hate thing, she was my mums mare and my mum had several accidents on her, including one which was nearly life ending for my mum as she was trampled her in a panic. now like i said it was a love hate thing with me and her, she would do as i said and i had to be very firm with her.  the communicator said that the mare had said to her that she was scared we would get rid of her, and that she felt more confident with me as i drew the line and my directness gave her confidence, where as she was sorry she hurt my mum but she made her panic a lot because she panicked too much around her. Now the AC didnt know anything about this or me at all so i was a little shocked.

 After 10 minutes i pretty discounted what she was saying because as a 'science' minded person it must be rubbish. But i still found it interesting. It comforted my mum who was growing more nervous around the mare, and i suppose that is what really matters. she cracked me up with some of the comments my pony made (i had him since i was 5) he apparently said he was sad we don't have fun anymore but he was happy in his new home and loves it when i visit him. (my aunty keeps him for RDA), that made me smile!


so in logical mode its complete bull but the experience was a comfort.
I feel sorry for the dog owners but i suspect it may just make the pain last longer.


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## Foxhunter49 (24 October 2011)

I am sure that there are people who can communicate with animals just as I know there are people with psychic abilities.
However, there are a lot more who are very good charlatans!

I have known four really top psychics, one could make predictions by reading a glass of water you had just drunk or a bottle of coke. Never was it a waffle it was of a single incident that would happen within 6 months. Usually only after the incident happened did you recall what she had said and never were they something like stepping in front of a car and nearly being run over - but of an unusual event.

One old man I knew I would have classed as a Horse Whisperer, I do not think there was anything he couldn't do with dogs or horses yet he needed no round pen or carrot stick. He could walk into a field and the horses would all come from the far side just to be with him.
I asked him how he did it and he said it was a gift that he could understand them and them him. He never said what had gone on before or what a horse wanted, he just had a way with them.

As with clever psychics it is observing, watching for the person being read reacting in the minutest way that leads them on the right track. of what to say. It is the same with most communicators.

My only experiences with them have been highly amusing and they have been so way off mainly because I can keep a poker face and lead them with body language down the wrong path.


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## brown tack (24 October 2011)

I believe in them. Seen some amazing things happen with them, even over the phone ones. 

But then again I am slightly open spritly anyway, I catch the odd word that someone is trying to tell me.
Ie one of best friends, Gray, died a few years ago, very suddenly. His partner, also a very close friend, has moved on and I thought all was well. All last week I've been catching the odd word, stupid words that the group of friends use, nicknames etc. 

I went to a meeting on Thursday as soon as I walked in, the medium came up to me saying that Gray has beening tring to talk to me and has got something to tell me, his partner has got cancer and is telling all the friends at the weekend. 

As soon as the meeting was over I went round to my friend, yes got cancer, yes was going to tell everyone at the weekend. She was very glad I came over, we had a chat, a cry, and good hug. Iwas then able to support her when she told the rest of the group on sat. 

And since then I've had the odd thank you and a hug like feeling, which I can put down to Gray beening with me.


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## Mrs B (24 October 2011)

"personally i feel that AC and psychics are a load of twaddle.

however people need to take comfort where they can, if that is meeting and having dealings with these people then fair enough, that is their choice and their  own money they are spending - not mine." - Dancing Queen

"I think that they would have to be the last resort, when your own mind and rationalisation has has been lost. I cannot say that I would NEVER use one as I have never been in that situation. So I suppose that I am open minded on the subject." - Lionman

Oooh! Close run competition for most patronising posts of the evening, Ladies & Gentlemen!


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## FionaM12 (24 October 2011)

Somehow I find it easier to believe someone could "speak" to an animal in that animal's presence than the idea of being in touch with a lost pet they'd never met. Perhaps that's just illogical on my part though?


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## FanyDuChamp (24 October 2011)

Mrs B said:



			"personally i feel that AC and psychics are a load of twaddle.

however people need to take comfort where they can, if that is meeting and having dealings with these people then fair enough, that is their choice and their  own money they are spending - not mine." - Dancing Queen

"I think that they would have to be the last resort, when your own mind and rationalisation has has been lost. I cannot say that I would NEVER use one as I have never been in that situation. So I suppose that I am open minded on the subject." - Lionman

Oooh! Close run competition for most patronising posts of the evening, Ladies & Gentlemen! 

Click to expand...


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## starryeyed (24 October 2011)

I am!!
I used to be very sceptic about it, but since having it done on 2 of our horses as a birthday gift, I am a huge believer! It was incredible, the woman was saying the most accurate things, things that we didn't even know about until we looked deeper into them. one example was where my horse had an area of pain which the vet & physio both missed - we asked them to come back and have a closer look at the area the woman had told us about (they must have thought we were insane!) and discovered the problem that the lady had informed us about. She knew all about their pasts, and was incredibly detailed about everything she said, we didn't once give anything away and everything horsey was hidden from view apart from the horse itself so as not to give her 'clues'. I wish i hadn't lost her number as i would love to get her back, i would love to be as gifted as her!


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## brown tack (24 October 2011)

Ohh and I've also got my old child hood horse that follows me every where, and I mean everywhere. 

I catch his breath on me, a nuzzle, or one of his high squeals. He ESP loves it that I've called my new horse after him, he feels very proud. I can't tell what he's thoughts are but I can tell his mood and temper. 

Some mediums say that I can open the channels up to get the commucition flow better. 

But had a bad experience as a child, I had mega nightmares over it for years, so shut it out.

Now my son, that is a story. 
Say we are stood in a que, he will turn round to someone and say things like, your missing ear ring is in the car, or Ben is very happy you have met a new man. Some of the things he comes out with are unbeliveable, and he's always right too.


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## Chavhorse (24 October 2011)

Well I will admit to be Mrs Cynical from Cynical Valley until this happened

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=436654

Now strange thing is I ran into this lady again down at my old yard and she said apparently V-man checks in with her now periodically!!!!! I was very "ah right of course" whilst backing away until she said "He says he is not Ted and is getting a bit affronted about it"

He is at the moment using Ted's saddle with a numnah under it with TED sewed on it, now I have not told anyone this so no way would she have known.

My Inner cynic has taken a bit if a bashing I have to say but I have bought him a new numnah to take over with me in December)


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## brown tack (24 October 2011)

starryeyed said:



			I am!!
I used to be very sceptic about it, but since having it done on 2 of our horses as a birthday gift, I am a huge believer! It was incredible, the woman was saying the most accurate things, things that we didn't even know about until we looked deeper into them. one example was where my horse had an area of pain which the vet & physio both missed - we asked them to come back and have a closer look at the area the woman had told us about (they must have thought we were insane!) and discovered the problem that the lady had informed us about. She knew all about their pasts, and was incredibly detailed about everything she said, we didn't once give anything away and everything horsey was hidden from view apart from the horse itself so as not to give her 'clues'. I wish i hadn't lost her number as i would love to get her back, i would love to be as gifted as her!
		
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Jackie weaver? 
http://www.animalpsychic.co.uk/


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## Firewell (24 October 2011)

I'm weird, I believe in weird things!!
I believe in ghosts, past lives, psychics. I believe that some people can read the spirits of others... Ie animal communicators (or at least some of them, I'm sure there are charlatans about!).
Life, death and the universe is so mind boggling and unexplainable that I will keep an open mind on these things. We are so minute in the scheme of things, who knows what is possible .


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## YasandCrystal (24 October 2011)

Mrs B said:



			"personally i feel that AC and psychics are a load of twaddle.

however people need to take comfort where they can, if that is meeting and having dealings with these people then fair enough, that is their choice and their  own money they are spending - not mine." - Dancing Queen

"I think that they would have to be the last resort, when your own mind and rationalisation has has been lost. I cannot say that I would NEVER use one as I have never been in that situation. So I suppose that I am open minded on the subject." - Lionman

Oooh! Close run competition for most patronising posts of the evening, Ladies & Gentlemen! 

Click to expand...

love it  x


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## YorksG (24 October 2011)

I have a mare who often 'goes' for a chat with the communicator  The communicator has become a friend of mine and if we are on the phone it is not unheard of for the mare to interupt! Interestingly my mare is appaloosa and do wonder if they are particularly good at communicating, or just gobby  We actually asked the communicator to talk to the new mare before we bought her and she said some interesting things, which fitted well with what we found. 
I would recomend that anyone gives it a go.


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## Merry Crisis (24 October 2011)

Mrs B said:



			"personally i feel that AC and psychics are a load of twaddle.

however people need to take comfort where they can, if that is meeting and having dealings with these people then fair enough, that is their choice and their  own money they are spending - not mine." - Dancing Queen

"I think that they would have to be the last resort, when your own mind and rationalisation has has been lost. I cannot say that I would NEVER use one as I have never been in that situation. So I suppose that I am open minded on the subject." - Lionman

Oooh! Close run competition for most patronising posts of the evening, Ladies & Gentlemen! 

Click to expand...

Patronising, I dont think so!! Lets face it, if all in your world is going smoothly you wouldnt think of an AC. If you have tried everything you can do with your horse, dog, whatever, you might go for a last resort option. An animal communicator. Now wind yourself in Mrs and stop being so sarcastic. I did say that I was openminded on the subject, just that I have never been in that position.


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## Tiffany (24 October 2011)

I was very sceptical so decided to contact one about my girl about 12 months ago. I was gob smacked with what came back, there was some very accurate information! All the communicator had was a photo of my girl and a location (town) and she asked when would be a good time in terms of being quiet on yard.

Like everything there will be good and bad communicators I suppose.


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## Chavhorse (24 October 2011)

YorksG said:



			I have a mare who often 'goes' for a chat with the communicator  The communicator has become a friend of mine and if we are on the phone it is not unheard of for the mare to interupt! Interestingly my mare is appaloosa and do wonder if they are particularly good at communicating, or just gobby  We actually asked the communicator to talk to the new mare before we bought her and she said some interesting things, which fitted well with what we found. 
I would recomend that anyone gives it a go.
		
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Maybe it is an Appy thing indeed))

Apparently one of his other complaints was that he was fed up with everyone laughing at his hoof boots! But also that he is very very happy where he is now and especially likes the children fussing him.

She said it is quite normal for them to get in touch again, I think my main parnoia is that he will say he hates me


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## YorksG (24 October 2011)

Chav horse, if he was going to say that I am sure he would have done by now, given that he is not backwards at coming forwards!  we had the most bizzare episode where everything the AC said was wrong  , didn't fit with the Current Appy at all, AC was getting quite upset, I was saying 'no that is wrong, no that didn't happen with this girl, I know all her history'. Then the penny dropped and this was the oddest thing ever, the Current Appy was telling the Old Appy's story, some of which I knew and recognised and some which fitted, but I hadn't known!. I am told that the Current Appy later said sorry for playing games with the AC!


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## Mrs B (25 October 2011)

lionman said:



			Patronising, I dont think so!! Lets face it, if all in your world is going smoothly you wouldnt think of an AC. If you have tried everything you can do with your horse, dog, whatever, you might go for a last resort option. An animal communicator. Now wind yourself in Mrs and stop being so sarcastic. I did say that I was openminded on the subject, just that I have never been in that position.
		
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Absolutely stand by my patronising remark there. Your post quite clearly says "They would have to be a last resort when your mind and rationalisation has been lost". 

That does not tally with the back-peddling above. The former remark is about as closed-minded as you can get.


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## CarolineJ (25 October 2011)

I booked a session with Isobel Hogton for both dogs and the horse when she was visiting my neighbours.  She was uncannily accurate.


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## Arabelle (25 October 2011)

I am closed minded.  Snake oil for the credulous.

Yes, you can call me patronising because I _feel _patronising towards those taking in by such hokum


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## Miss L Toe (25 October 2011)

The first time someone told me a story, I was a bit incredulous, but the AC was talking to a horse and he said he wanted a chocolate cake with candles for his birthday like the pony next door got on his birthday: that is pretty specific, and the AC had never been on the yard before. The fact that one horse can complain about a numnah belonging to another pony is pretty strange, and just shows how far removed we ourselves are from the natural world.


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## Morgan123 (25 October 2011)

I find my 'inner sceptic' still finds it hard to believe, but I've had some very accurate readings, one each for my three horses and then a friend had one done for a pony I know well. What I've found interesting is not only that there are facts that were v accurate (e.g. that I was given one of my horses, that one gives kisses, one had recently had a bad trailer experience, one was on loan and knew he could go back to his beloved owners if need be so wasn't too worried about recently having left them to live wiht me... etc) - but more amazing to me (my innre scpetic grumbles on about lucky guessing, even though i know that the chances of correct guessing for four horses is preposterous), is the fact that their PERSONALITIES were spot on through the medium - for all four. 

My quirky elderly mare was just that, with a fantastic sense of humour and an absolute heart of gold. The medium then even laughed, describing my mental welsh cob as 'like talking to a child' which is absolutely how he would be, he's such a baby. My arab was just down to earth but enthusiastic about the things to come, and then my friend's pony was absolutely full of himself and saying how great he was and how he should be allowed ot jump higher and so on becuase he's not realising his full potential and he's a really good pony. 

I can vouch for the facts being accurate, but the personalities being so spot on blew me away, no way you could guess those, esp with them being so completely different horses. The chances of correctly guessing four (and getting facts right) are absolutely minimal. My inner cynic still grumbles but I know it's wrong and there's something in all this.


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## Hedwards (25 October 2011)

I'm afraid I fall into the sceptical camp too. and i would certainly never ever pay the kind of costs these people charge to find out! 

I just dont get it I suppose, and i've never ever seen any 'changed' horses after they have been out, however, I do see a placebo affect on the owners - an example is a friend of mine, she is a very nervous rider, and frankly her horse is not suited to her, and has bolted and chucked her more times than i can remember (I must point out he never ever tried anything with me or another rider who is now competing him at elementary dressage, while the owner struggles to get him round a w&t confidently), the animal communicator 'had a word' with the pony. the next day the owner came down with renewed confidence, got on the pony and rode him confidently - low and behold he behaved. The owner puts it down to the fact the animal communicator told him to behave - me I put it down to the fact she was far more relaxed and confident on the pony that he didnt misbehave. So it does have its place - although massively over priced if you ask me!


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## Rayado05 (25 October 2011)

I don't post very often, and do not want to become part of some falling out on here over thoughts/opinions.

but I do wonder about this whole scene. I am not immortal so can neither prove this is real nor a fake, so not commenting on that.

The bit I question is the humanizing of the horse in some of the responses:

e.g. "The horse wants a chocolate cake" 
One I heard from a friend on a livery yard "My horse doesn't like his red rug"

For me a horse is a horse, and this is human behaviours being transposed onto a horse.

Their main requirements in life as a species are different to ours as humans and that is in everything not just this topic and we need to mindful of at all times in our dealings with them.


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## Vetwrap (25 October 2011)

I am convinced, having asked an AC to talk to one of mine.  

Yes, it was in desperation and I am sure that someone could pick through everything that was said to me and explain it all... But at the end of the day, when you have gone down all the other roads - the vet checks, the professional training, the new saddle - and got nowhere, if £40 for an hour on the phone does somehow make a positive difference, then I think that is money well spent.

I would spend it again.  I would also do the vet checks, teeth, saddle and everything else, but I would not discount talking to a reputable AC to see if there was anything else that they could offer.  It's another box ticked really, isn't it?


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## Pearlsasinger (25 October 2011)

Rayado05 said:



			I don't post very often, and do not want to become part of some falling out on here over thoughts/opinions.

but I do wonder about this whole scene. I am not immortal so can neither prove this is real nor a fake, so not commenting on that.

The bit I question is the humanizing of the horse in some of the responses:

e.g. "The horse wants a chocolate cake" 
One I heard from a friend on a livery yard "My horse doesn't like his red rug"

For me a horse is a horse, and this is human behaviours being transposed onto a horse.

Their main requirements in life as a species are different to ours as humans and that is in everything not just this topic and we need to mindful of at all times in our dealings with them.
		
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I quite agree with you that horses are not human and have different needs.  One of my absolute bugbears is the 'My Little Pony' syndrome which sees horse owners treating their horses/ponies like dolls/babies with unnecessary rugs etc.
However I do believe that at least one of our horses has 'spoken' to an AC, who was uncannily accurate in what she told us.  My sister replied to an on-line request for horses for this AC to practise on, because she knew the horse's history and had met the breeder. No money changed hands.  Sis e-mailed a photo and got an e-mail reply.  She was told some very specific info which couldn't possibly have been guessed and body-language certainly didn't come into it. 
 A friend later used the same AC, who again gave her very specific info which I really doubt would have been guessed.  One item was that the horse likes sausages, which is true - at RC barbeques he's a nightmare, trying to get close enough to steal sausages. 

I think the point of the 'birthday cake' story was that the AC involved was unlikely to have known that the next-door pony's owner had provided a birthday cake with candle for her pony, so it must have been the horse which was 'communicating' who told her about it (and said that he wanted one).


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## Spotsrock (25 October 2011)

I have always been a sceptic but I love my girly soo much I would liek to give it a go just to see if anything accurate comes out, if it does I would like the thought that she could tell me if she is happy and what to change. 

Does anyone know a good/accurate/affordable AC in the lincs area? I don't want to pay a fortune, one with an accuracy guarantee would be good, I've seen a couple advertise this.


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## maree t (25 October 2011)

I am facinated by the subject having had experience with a clairyoyant a few years ago so would love to try and get some more communication with our new mare. (Dont want to know what the NF has to say)Have looked at that site for jackie , has anybody used her ? I think that perhaps I might find £40 to satisfy my own curiosity


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## Morgan123 (25 October 2011)

I used Jackie Weaver for each of the four on the previous page that i said were v accurtae. very impressed she was great. 

Spotrock - they can do it from a photo via the phone if you want. I've actually heard lots of them say it's more accurate that way (and means you can't just excuse their correct guesses from things they're picking up when they're at the yard, of course!). 

Hedwards - I can see why people mgiht be sceptical in general, but i don't really see why youd disbelieve just because the horse said it wanted a cake! I bet your horse prefers carrots to polos, for example, or dislikes pears, havings its belly groomed, or likes galloping and dislikes schoolwork, etc etc - why wouldn't they then like/dislike aspects of thier tack, some rugs, etc?!


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## Wagtail (25 October 2011)

I would love to believe it and am still on the fence. I have just had a brief look at Jackie Weaver's website and started to read the first story in the book she has online. You see, this is where I come unstuck. Things are going along nicely and the story seems quite credible. Then the first stumbling block. She mentions the dog 'has a sense of humour.' Sorry, but no they don't. A sense of fun maybe. But then came the point here she lost me completely and stopped my belief totally. She said that the dog was reluctant to get on the weighing scales at the vets because she was afraid that if the truth about her weight was known then she would get less to eat! Well sorry, but that it just ridiculous. I could not use her to do a reading for that reason alone.

However, the reason I am still on the fence is this:

Around 8 years ago a friend of mine had a horse with an ever increasing lameness problem and eventually she was on box rest and unable to move much at all. She had a bone scan that showed up a couple of hot spots on one hind leg, the worst of which was at the top of the femur. The vets were very non commital about it and the site was too deep for xray. My friend sent the horse's photograph to an animal communicator who sent back her reading as an audio recording. She was over an hour away and so I doubted anything could be known about the horse's environment. I was shocked to the core when the lady said the horse described the vet as tall and thin with brown hair and glasses (apparently this lady saw visions of what the horse saw and felt). That was exactly how the vet looked. She also described me and her owner as standing in her box in tears (this was true). She said that her withers were extremely sore. This was confirmed later by a visit from the chiro (probably due to the horse taking the weight forward to ease the pain behind). But she also said that there was a massive pain in her hind leg but that it was better than it was. Sadly for the mare, it did not get better and she had to be PTS when her condition deteriorated. A post mortem showed a complete fracture that would never have healed. It was extremely sad.


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## Hedwards (25 October 2011)

Morgan123 said:



			I used Jackie Weaver for each of the four on the previous page that i said were v accurtae. very impressed she was great. 

Spotrock - they can do it from a photo via the phone if you want. I've actually heard lots of them say it's more accurate that way (and means you can't just excuse their correct guesses from things they're picking up when they're at the yard, of course!). 

Hedwards - I can see why people mgiht be sceptical in general, but i don't really see why youd disbelieve just because the horse said it wanted a cake! I bet your horse prefers carrots to polos, for example, or dislikes pears, havings its belly groomed, or likes galloping and dislikes schoolwork, etc etc - why wouldn't they then like/dislike aspects of thier tack, some rugs, etc?!
		
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I think my problem with it really is that i have never seen any change in any of the horses 'communicated' with, the change i see is in the owner...  which is why i think its a placebo effect, which if it works for an owner than fair play - I just wouldnt spend money on it myself - i think the fees are incredibly expensive...(also I didnt mention horses wanting cake etc.)


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## Wagtail (25 October 2011)

I just hate it when they use words and feelings that only a human would use. Things such as nausea (horses can't be sick). I can stretch to the belief that some people may be able to see images from animals' minds and therefore describe people or other animals. I can stretch to the belief that these communicators may be able to 'see' where the animal is in pain, or what scares it. That kind of thing. I also think that they would be able to see which people the animal likes or dislikes. But when it comes to anything more complicated than that such as the dogs reasoning in my previous example that it would get less food if its owners knew how much it weighed then that is just stupid IMO.


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## Vetwrap (25 October 2011)

maree t said:



			I am facinated by the subject having had experience with a clairyoyant a few years ago so would love to try and get some more communication with our new mare. (Dont want to know what the NF has to say)Have looked at that site for jackie , has anybody used her ? I think that perhaps I might find £40 to satisfy my own curiosity
		
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I spoke to Jackie Weaver.  It is a very odd thing to try and get your head round - a three way conversation with your horse - but it was helpful for me.  I would receommend her.


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## mcrobbiena (25 October 2011)

Or that scales meant being weighed?! How on earth would they know what they were used for? Although I have never used one I have heard good things abou Anne Diamond (think that is her name) I am sceptic but also curious! I have heard a few stories of things she has said and noone has known how she knew or pointed things out noone had noticed. There was one where a horse kept saying she hated it at night because there was something watching her and it really upsets her, she can't relax. There was a pretend owl that she could see from her stable window that was used to keep other birds away or something (i don't know what it was used for) but they moved her to another stable where it was out of sight and she was much happier there. Also another horse wanted its old saddle back and when they changed it back it went much better. Iv heard quite a few but cant remember them very well just been like "oooh, weird" and then like "hmm, there will be an explanation like they are all in cahoots to make money out of it" but the weird thing is they are all credible people that you wouldn't think would believe in that sort of thing. i am temted to give it a shot. You would pay £40 for lesson with someone good, this may save you a load of lessons because your horse prefers to work before breakfast or something. I dunno! but I am more and more tempted to just give it a go and then make up my mind!


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## JFTDWS (25 October 2011)

As usual on these threads, I'm drawn strongly towards DQ's side of the fence...

Honestly, I find the whole thing just absurd and it amazes me that so many people are open to the suggestion that somebody can come and have a chat with their animal about their feelings and their past.  Horses don't organise their thoughts in the same way as humans, they don't have the same self awareness and they certainly don't communicate in the humanised way that animal communicators claim.  IMHO, naturally.


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## LauraWheeler (25 October 2011)

I am very open minded on the subject.
I know there are con artists out there who will tell you what you want to hear or fish for info from you. 
But I had a reading done for Herbie (After getting a friend to have her pony done first so I could find out if the person was for real  ) and it was amazingly acurate and compleatly diffrent from my friends reading. (The woman didn't know we knew eachother) I gave the woman no info on Herbie but she picked up on so much stuff that only Herbs could have told her. She was worried as some of it was prity strange but it was all spot on.
It wasn't that expencive either and if I wasn't happy she would give me the money back.


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## Pally (25 October 2011)

Chavhorse said:



			Well I will admit to be Mrs Cynical from Cynical Valley until this happened

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=436654

Now strange thing is I ran into this lady again down at my old yard and she said apparently V-man checks in with her now periodically!!!!! I was very "ah right of course" whilst backing away until she said "He says he is not Ted and is getting a bit affronted about it"

He is at the moment using Ted's saddle with a numnah under it with TED sewed on it, now I have not told anyone this so no way would she have known.

My Inner cynic has taken a bit if a bashing I have to say but I have bought him a new numnah to take over with me in December)
		
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Just read your thread, amazing!


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## Fellewell (25 October 2011)

It's just a bit of fun isn't it, because there's no one better placed to communicate with a horse than his owner IMO

Tell you what though; if anyone would like to send me their bank account number, sort code and their mother's maiden name, I can give you 100% accurate info on what the animal communicator is thinking


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## Circe (25 October 2011)

Hmm, well I'd like to be convinced.
I recently lost my elderly appaloosa, and I got a AC to have a chat to him for me. 
I was open ( obviously ) to the idea that it might be true. I had to email her a  photo, then she emailed back the "communication"
When I got her email, it was all very general, when Id asked a specific question, she said she wasnt' able to find out, or my horse didn't know the answer. 
I could've made some of what she said fit the situation, but not enough to convince me. 
Its a shame that she wasn't accurate. I hope that she wasn't setting out to deliberately decieve me ( maybe I'm overly naive ?  ) but I wouldn't spend my money on it again.
Kx


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## Morgan123 (25 October 2011)

Wagtail said:



			I just hate it when they use words and feelings that only a human would use. Things such as nausea (horses can't be sick). I can stretch to the belief that some people may be able to see images from animals' minds and therefore describe people or other animals. I can stretch to the belief that these communicators may be able to 'see' where the animal is in pain, or what scares it. That kind of thing. I also think that they would be able to see which people the animal likes or dislikes. But when it comes to anything more complicated than that such as the dogs reasoning in my previous example that it would get less food if its owners knew how much it weighed then that is just stupid IMO.
		
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I find this quite interesting - so you believe it's possible but you only believe the things that you agree can be true?! What makes you think a dog can't reason like that or a horse can't have a sense of humour? You should meet my mare! 

I am interested in the point of view that says that you only believe things you agree with, that seems a bit odd to me?


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## ladyt25 (25 October 2011)

JFTD said:



			As usual on these threads, I'm drawn strongly towards DQ's side of the fence...

Honestly, I find the whole thing just absurd and it amazes me that so many people are open to the suggestion that somebody can come and have a chat with their animal about their feelings and their past.  Horses don't organise their thoughts in the same way as humans, they don't have the same self awareness and they certainly don't communicate in the humanised way that animal communicators claim.  IMHO, naturally.
		
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See, to be honest I find it more odd when people totally rule it out. I find that bizarre - why COULDN'T people 'talk' to an animal? Noone knows or will EVER know I suspect the full capabilities of the human mind so to totally discount that anyone can communicate with another animal is strange really. Just because YOU can't or you haven't channelled in to it doens't mean some other people can't.

I have never had an animal communicator but I am intrigued by the thought of them and would love for someone to get in to the headof my pony - may explain few things!! Lol

I am open to most things to be honest and I have had a ghostly experience as well and I love the fact we will never know everything about everything or be able to explain all.

Personally I don't believe in a God but millions of people around the world do yet is there any proof of an existence? Nope! Well, not as far as I can tell anway. Doesn't mean there isn't one/some and some people's lives and decisions are ruled by their belief there is a higher being. Personally I find that scary!


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## midi (25 October 2011)

I think the reality is "annimal commuinicators" are just good psychologists and tricksters or have a knack for picking up things that other people don't realise they're giving away.
Just like apparant "psychics" do etc.

however I would like to see what they'd have to say about the animals I know, would be interesting! but I certaintly wouldn't pay for it unless I had money to throw away.


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## Luci07 (25 October 2011)

I am open minded - I take the point that at times the AC seems to offering a far too human response - but perhaps that is because that is how they can best explain the feeling? so, my old mare used to have a complete and irrationial hatred of gray horses - so I could humanise that! However I do also accept that there are a lot of charlatans who make money out of other peoples grief and that is particularly prelevant with psychics. In fact a geniune psychic is not supposed to benefit from their gift which rather goes against the whole being paid for it. If you are used to horses I think you can geniunely pick up something from horses quite quickly but that would be more from understanding their body language. I also take the point that most people who go to AC's are - broadly speaking - having a real problem with their horse just as (again being very broad) most people who have readings are in trouble and its normally their relationship.

I think it is incredibly immoral to make money out of someone elses grief or deep worries. I am thinking of psychics in this instance and not AC's but some of the best psychics do not make money out of their gift - they are geniunely trying to help people.


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## Morgan123 (25 October 2011)

midi said:



			I think the reality is "annimal commuinicators" are just good psychologists and tricksters or have a knack for picking up things that other people don't realise they're giving away.
Just like apparant "psychics" do etc.

however I would to see what they'd have to say about the animals I know, should be interesting! but I certaintly wouldn't pay any money for it unless I had money to throw away.
		
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Midi - most communicators will do a reading via the phone from a photograph. Jackie weaver specifically asks that you do NOT give her more info than their name, their age, and how long you've owned them for. I was specifically making sure not to comment and know others who've done the same, just saying 'carry on' or something. I've seen people suggest that they're con artists who go out of their way to stalk you somehow via the internet or something so they can learn your secrets, but i seriously doubt anyone would be mental enough to bother doing that for £35 whihc is the going rate ;-)!!!! Having FOUR reasings wiht correct, specific, unique facts and the correct personalities for all four does it for me.


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## Wagtail (25 October 2011)

Morgan123 said:



			I find this quite interesting - so you believe it's possible but you only believe the things that you agree can be true?! What makes you think a dog can't reason like that or a horse can't have a sense of humour? You should meet my mare! 

I am interested in the point of view that says that you only believe things you agree with, that seems a bit odd to me?
		
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I don't believe a dog knows what weighing scales are for, no, or that it knows that it may be put on a diet if it is too fat. How could anyone believe that? I have already said that I think animals can have a sense of fun, but not a sense of humour like humans do. What you view as your mare having a sense of humour is your own human interpretation of what she does. I actually do think animals are capable of some thought and reasoning. Dogs can be observed to look thoughtful for example before getting up and going to fetch a toy or chew out of another room. There is no doubt in my mind that the dog has thought about his toy and made a conscious decision to go and fetch it. Or a horse might keep pinching your hat of your head. You might say 'for a laugh'. Or maybe it is because he has learned that it makes US laugh and that they therefore get positive attention and a fuss. They certainly like to please us.

So, when it comes to ACs, I find it hard to take them seriously if they come up with things that animals cannot possibly understand such as what weighing scales are for. But I am prepared to have an open mind when things they say are more credible to me, yes.


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## Morgan123 (25 October 2011)

That's an interesting point of view. I do think a dog can understand what a weighing scales are for. Why not? Dogs have the intelligence of a 2-4 year old child depending on the breed. a 2-4 year old child knows what a weighing scales are for. 

Who are we to decide what animals are capable of understanding or feeling? If communicators are time and time again coming up with accurate information, then I think it's only fair that we stretch our own understanding even if that feels uncomfortable. jsut my opinion though.


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## Noodlebug (25 October 2011)

midi said:



			I think the reality is "annimal commuinicators" are just good psychologists and tricksters or have a knack for picking up things that other people don't realise they're giving away.
Just like apparant "psychics" do etc.

however I would like to see what they'd have to say about the animals I know, would be interesting! but I certaintly wouldn't pay for it unless I had money to throw away.
		
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Absolutety and how could someone speak to horse or any animal from it's photo or on the phone! I am amazed that people are taken in by them. It must a license to print money.


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## JFTDWS (25 October 2011)

ladyt25 said:



			See, to be honest I find it more odd when people totally rule it out. I find that bizarre - why COULDN'T people 'talk' to an animal? Noone knows or will EVER know I suspect the full capabilities of the human mind so to totally discount that anyone can communicate with another animal is strange really. Just because YOU can't or you haven't channelled in to it doens't mean some other people can't.

Personally I don't believe in a God but millions of people around the world do yet is there any proof of an existence? Nope! Well, not as far as I can tell anway. Doesn't mean there isn't one/some and some people's lives and decisions are ruled by their belief there is a higher being. Personally I find that scary!
		
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My problem isn't that people can communicate with animals - because people _can _communicate with them.  I do it all the time - I tell my dog to sit and he does, or he barks at the door and I know to let him out, etc.  My problem is that I don't see any evidence that dogs "talk" to each other - let alone another species - in the very "Doctor Doolittle" sense that AC seem to claim to communicate with them in.  

I'm a scientist, so I do put my faith in things that I can't understand, can't see and can't do - I can't do the scary maths behind theoretical physics, but I believe it's probably correct (ish) - because I can see the rationale behind it.  I can't see any reason to believe that horses talk about disliking a rug because of its colour, or as one poster suggests, disliking having another horse's name on its saddlecloth.  How exactly does the horse read that?  How can it understand our language and our manner of writing things - these aren't innate truths, their societal constructs - we made them up.  So how does the horse understand how to read them?  I can't read chinese characters, though I've been exposed to them probably as much as horse is exposed to english writing - so how can a horse read?  

(Not a dig at the poster of the horse/saddlecloth story, I'm just using it to explain my point of view).

Ultimately, it's not about whether I can do it or not, it's about whether I can see, even vaguely and theoretically, how someone could - and that is where I encounter a problem with things like this.  And I feel the same way about alternative therapies too...

Ahh well the religion business is interesting.  I don't believe in a god because, like you, I don't see any evidence for one.  However, as I scientist, I also have to accept that there is no evidence that there is not a god - and indeed, it is not possible to design an experiment to gain such information, because of the other worldly nature of a higher power.  As such I resign myself to atheist agnosticism.  I don't actually find a belief in a god scary, as I don't think it's a harmful belief if it's based on mainstream religious beliefs, in so far as the grass roots believers tend to be familiar with them - they pretty much correlate with my own humanist moral code   Obviously there are some extremists and nutters out there, but they could equally be atheists as religious nuts (and some of them are) - they're just rationalising in a different way!  

And that really is a digression


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## JFTDWS (25 October 2011)

Morgan123 said:



			That's an interesting point of view. I do think a dog can understand what a weighing scales are for. Why not? Dogs have the intelligence of a 2-4 year old child depending on the breed. a 2-4 year old child knows what a weighing scales are for.
		
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It's a big leap from knowing that weighing scales tell you how much you weigh, to understanding that if you weigh too much, the vet will advise your owner to cut down on how much you get fed.  I think it is generally accepted in the animal behaviour fields that such leaps are beyond dogs - despite the fact that in certain intelligence tests, dogs can rival young children.  The behaviourists could be wrong, of course, but without evidence to support that, you might equally argue that dogs are doing calculus in their baskets at night


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## brucea (25 October 2011)

Well I'm an arch sceptic, but I think they have a role to play

I used a lovely lady called Isobel Hogton and she helped me twice - once when I was having massive behaviour problems with my ISH and she nailed it, and  also told me several dietary and management changes he would appreciate and they all made a huge difference.

She also told me things that only he and I knew, about things that had happened when we had been out together.

But the biggest difference was with our laminitic pony - she visited him when he was very low and had not been on his feet for a few days - it was kind of black. She visited twice, and after each time he was noticeably brighter and more alert, and was up and walking around. It had a direct impact on his sense of well being, and I can swear that pony had given up.


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## PitPony (25 October 2011)

Very interesting thread...I am non-commital on the subject really. It is like having 'faith' I almost envy people who do but I do not have it - religious or otherwise. People who do have it find it a tremendous comfort and part of their way of living and i wish them well.
The 3 people who have known my horse as well as I do since I have owned her have all said for goodness sake don't let anyone do anything like communicate or get her to talk to them...it could open up all kinds of trouble...we think she was incredibly badly treated and traumatised at some point and it would not be a pleasant experience for her. Not that they  were necessarily believers either....
Someone who does Reiki andactually writes for a paper wanted to try my mare and I refused...she was quite persistent but I just couldnt take the risk.
also, I know everyone says they would love their horse to  talk to them...sometimes with my mare I just don't know if I would...she is temperamental and full of attitude as it is...!!! I think i shall just leave her to be a horse in her own right...I think body language and behaviour are goodenough for me!


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## fburton (25 October 2011)

Totally skeptical - as I am about human mediums and other paranormal phenomena. However, I'm open-minded in the sense that I am willing to be persuaded should any evidence turn up to prove it can't all be explained by coincidence and psychology (especially the natural human tendency to want to believe).


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## peanut (25 October 2011)

fburton said:



			Totally skeptical - as I am about human mediums and other paranormal phenomena. However, I'm open-minded in the sense that I am willing to be persuaded should any evidence turn up to prove it can't all be explained by coincidence and psychology (especially the natural human tendency to want to believe).
		
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I agree with the above.  I find it easier to believe when the AC actually visits the horse, but cannot see how possibly a photo can transmit any useful information.


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## mcrobbiena (25 October 2011)

Sorry, can't find original post-it was Anne Dee (not anne diamond!!!) Was on her website and her testimonials look quite impressive. But she charges £50 for both over the phone and visit, but I have heard alot of very impressive things from the most unlikely people. I am tempted espcially for my rescue collie who has "issues"! It would be worth it if she could tell him my BF won't hurt him and not to nip at my horses. Am I an idiot? probably. Would be worth far more than £50 if it did work. Same with the horse if she could tell me why she stops sometimes it would save a fortune on diesel and entry fees if I could come back with winnings!!


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## Zimzim (25 October 2011)

I cant say whether I believe or not as I have never had an animal communicator come and speak to my horses.

Im open minded about it though and would give it a try, no harm in doing that


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## RegularUser88 (25 October 2011)

Maybe I got unlucky, but I've had one run in with an AC and it's confirmed that I'm right to be cynical. 

The AC came to our yard to do a liveries horse. Went to the stable with the livery and did a reading, complete with crystals. Everything they said about the horse the livery would nod in agreement to, or twist in some way to fit. There were lots of open ended sentences and phrases i.e. "I'm seeing light colours, maybe cream, or yellow?" - livery: "oh he raced in yellow a few times" etc. 

I stayed and listened to it, because I do try and keep open minded. The AC then sold my friend a lot of herbs that they felt would help the horse. We were stood in the tack room having a coffee after, with the livery gushing to the AC about everything being correct. I was very quiet and the AC directly spoke to me, asking what I thought. I explained my scepticism about the whole thing but did say politely that I felt different things worked for different people. 

The AC offered to do a free 10 minute reading on a horse of my choice to "prove" their skills. Then I could pay for a longer session if I wanted to. Not one to pass up on something free  I walked to the end of the yard, took a little black pony out of the stable, led her up to the top of the yard and tied her up. The AC then came out of the tack room to greet the mare and do the reading. 

The general gist was: the mare loves me, the mare is happy in her home, the mare misses her old home sometimes but is happy here. The 10 minutes went on, I pressed about any injuries but was told the mare gets a bit sore when ridden by the larger girl because she pulls on her mouth, but she likes the little girl who rides her and she loves wearing all the pink. The mare didn't mention any other injuries. The mare would like to do some more competing because she thinks she could win lots. The mare really likes her farrier, he is nice.  Oh and the mare really likes the chestnut horse (the yard has 7 chestnut horses, all clearly in stables )

The mare I had taken out of the stable was a rescue mare. I had spent the past 6 months working with her. By that stage I could put a headcollar on her, catch her in the stable or field (as long as her field mates were caught first). She would stand at the top of the yard, as long as she was stood in the same place. She had learnt to accept the vet, etc as long as I stood near by and she was tied in the same place. She had to be sedated for the farrier, and I had to be holding her to help keep her calm. Farrier appointments could only be done like this, else the mare would put herself on the floor in a panic. We had attempted to put a saddle on her once, in an attempt to begin backing her, and she had freaked out. It had taken me 2 weeks to get close to her again. No one else on the yard could handle her. The mare had a severe poll injury that was being slowly corrected, but was taking time as she would only let the Chiro do so much, before getting stressed. 
I had taken her to one in hand show (as a companion to her boyfriend, with the potential to take her in one in hand class). The mare had shaken the entire time, worked herself up into a lather and reared lots. 
In short, the pony was heavily abused. We'd got her straight after Monty Roberts had tried and failed to join up with her in a demonstration. The new owners were taking her to be shot the next week if Monty had no success. They'd rescued her, had her 2 weeks and didn't know how to progress. We stepped in, knowing we could give her the time and facilities, a nice herd to run with. If it came to it we would put her down after a nice summer of being cared for. She was skin and bone with a dull coat and matted mane as no one could get close to groom her. She was also covered in scars. 

I did tell the AC all of this, when asked if I wanted to pay for a longer reading. Initially the AC said they would have picked this up had they done a longer reading. The AC started trying to tie in bits they had said with what I had told them. E.g. the mare likes me because I'm nice to her. The mare is happy in this home because we're nice to her. The little girl rider was in the mares past, not her current. The mare likes wearing pink and she's wearing a pink head collar  I was polite but said it really hadn't converted me. The AC then got VERY aggressive with me, saying I had deliberately set them up to fail, if they had gone into the stable with the mare then they would have picked up on all of this. I agreed, yes anyone would pick up on it if they tried to go in the mares stable, but that's not AC that's just knowing horses. That's why I chose this mare and put her in an environment where I knew she would be calm (at the top of the yard where she knows 'things' happen). 

I still do keep an open mind, and I'd love to think people could communicate. There is a lot I would have loved to find out from this mare. However, I know she is now happy in her new home. She is in her element and is being well cared for. If this circumstance ever changes then I will have her back in a flash. She will never be abused, she will never show affection, she will never have a child rider and she will only ever be ble to deal with 2 of 3 people touching her, but that's ok. She went from uncatchable to being reliable to catch. She needed to be sedated for the farrier, to standing good as gold.


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## Pearlsasinger (25 October 2011)

fburton said:



			Totally skeptical - as I am about human mediums and other paranormal phenomena. However, I'm open-minded in the sense that I am willing to be persuaded should any evidence turn up to prove it can't all be explained by coincidence and psychology (especially the natural human tendency to want to believe).
		
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Would this help?

Completely inconsequential and I really can't imagine that any-one could have made this up, or would have wanted to bother.

Sister's Appy had mentioned a dog in a barrel to AC on more than 1 occasion but we couldn't think what she was talking about.  Until AC asked more questions.  The dog was a terrier and the barrel was blue, the horse said.
Well guess what, in our yard was a blue plastic barrel (with a lid, I hasten to assure you).  When our JRT died in her sleep, the ground was frozen solid, so rather than struggling to dig a hole to bury her, we put her in the empty blue barrel, with the lid firmly on to avoid scavengers, to await the thaw.  We certainly hadn't told any-one about our slovenly ways, so I can't imagine how AC could have known any of this if the horse hadn't told her. Apparently horse also said that the dog was laughing, we have many photos of this JRT with her mouth open, looking as though she was laughing.  She really was a very cheerful dog, always busy.


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## Dancing Queen (25 October 2011)

Fellewell said:



			Tell you what though; if anyone would like to send me their bank account number, sort code and their mother's maiden name, I can give you 100% accurate info on what the animal communicator is thinking

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LOVE IT!!! XX But dont forget the 3 digit number on the back of the card!


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## Dancing Queen (25 October 2011)

Morgan123 said:



			That's an interesting point of view. I do think a dog can understand what a weighing scales are for. Why not? Dogs have the intelligence of a 2-4 year old child depending on the breed. a 2-4 year old child knows what a weighing scales are for.
		
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perhaps this is why my dog didnt want to get on the scales - we found out she had a few pounds on!


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## Chavhorse (25 October 2011)

JFTD said:



			or as one poster suggests, disliking having another horse's name on its saddlecloth.  How exactly does the horse read that?  How can it understand our language and our manner of writing things - these aren't innate truths, their societal constructs - we made them up.  So how does the horse understand how to read them?  I can't read chinese characters, though I've been exposed to them probably as much as horse is exposed to english writing - so how can a horse read?  

(Not a dig at the poster of the horse/saddlecloth story, I'm just using it to explain my point of view).



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As I have said I am a total Cynic and really struggle with this, and my first thought was "absolute rot of course he can not read the name on a saddle cloth"

So I was even more shocked when having a "guess what Vardi is apparently saying he hates wearing Teds saddle cloth as if" with my the girl who is riding him for me in the UK to be told that on the day in question about 5 different people at the yard asked "oh is that horse called Ted" "oh we shall have to call him Ted from now on as a joke" ....now that I can get my head round

As I have said before I am the biggest cynic in the world but twice now this particular communicator has got stuff 100% accurate which she had no way at all of knowing.  First time the incident with his brood mare and second time with the saddle pad.

Frankly I still struggle with it.


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## ihatework (25 October 2011)

I'm sceptical but mildly interested.
I can't see how anyone can do communication for a photo. I'm interested in peoples sixth sense if they are with an animal.

About 18 months ago a sent in photos of 3 horses to an AC who was raved about on a HHO thread, just to satisfy some curiosity. They were £15 a horse and I was willing to flush the money down the drain.

Horse 1 - Owned for 8 years. Retired fully for over a year at that point. I feel I know him inside out. I sent a picture of him stood tied up when he was in work and clipped.
Horse 2 - Owned for 4.5 years. Still relatively young and at that time was off work following an operation. Horse I had never really bonded with and didn't really 'get' him. Again sent in a photo clipped and fit from the previous year.
Horse 3 - A temporary sell-on project owned fro a couple of months. Cobx type, lovely kind horse but sensitive. I sent in a picture of him plaited and stood up.

So in general everything I got told about my horses was something that could easily have been assumed from the pictures provided. Unfortunately the assumptions were quite out.

Horse 1 - I was told was sensitive and a worrier (so not true, an attention seeking cheeky bugger would be more appropriate) and was my competition schoolmaster (true but pretty obvious). He was in no pain and loved going out competing with me (no mention of dodgy hocks & feet and the fact he hadn't been to a comp for going on 3 years)

Horse 2 - This is going to be my horse of a lifetime, he is bold and brave and loves galloping and jumping hedges with me (granted that is the type of horse the picture portrayed). Urm ... he wasn't my horse of a lifetime, I was looking to sell him due to that, he was fairly backwards thinking at times and I had mostly been doing dressage. No mention of the fact he was recuperating from an operation.

Horse 3 - My old steady eddy show cob, he has won buckets of rosettes with me. He likes to think he can compete with my TB's though. This one made me laugh a lot, a sensitive little chap who had been passed around a bit and had certainly taken a decent beating at some point. He wasn't a show horse in the slightest, a much better jumper/hunter type.

Once I got the readings through I enlightened the AC and to give her her due she refunded my payments.


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## Wagtail (25 October 2011)

Morgan123 said:



			That's an interesting point of view. I do think a dog can understand what a weighing scales are for. Why not? Dogs have the intelligence of a 2-4 year old child depending on the breed. a 2-4 year old child knows what a weighing scales are for. 

Who are we to decide what animals are capable of understanding or feeling? If communicators are time and time again coming up with accurate information, then I think it's only fair that we stretch our own understanding even if that feels uncomfortable. jsut my opinion though.
		
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I completely agree that some dogs have the intelligence of a 3 year old child. It has been proved and I completely believe it. However, I do not believe it is possible that a dog can understand what scales are for or the concept of weight. A 3 year old child only understands this because they understand more complex language. Dogs may be able to understand a couple of hundred words and also our mood when we say them but it is impossible for them to understand concepts such as weight or that eating makes them fat. You could probably train a dog to do a task such as adding more and more objects (weights) to a scale in order for it to reach a certain reading so that it will be given a treat. But it would never understand that eating too much made it fat and that the reading on the scale told you how fat and that if it got too fat then it would get less food.


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## Morgan123 (25 October 2011)

Hmm, i do see what you mean, but also it depends - I mean, if the dog has previously had several diets for exmaple I don't think it's a big stretch to link putting on weight with being given less food. Especially if this is coupled with words which are understood (becuase food is important to animals) such as 'food' 'fat' (probably said whilst poking fatty areas, i know i do this to my fat cob all the time ;-)), 'diet' and so on. Similarly, it wouldn't be a massive leap for these words to be linked with the time spent on the scales - we all know dogs pick things up from the context. I don't think it's such a massive leap at all when you break it down a little? maybe jsut me though.


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## Supertrooper (25 October 2011)

I've used one many times and yes there are things that could be guessed but there are also too many things that are unique to the animals I've had. Either things that have happened or things that we do with them. Also and this is what has convinced me more is how they've reacted to the lady, it's hard to describe but they are so tuned in to her.

I know it's not everyone's cup of tea but to me it gives me another dimension to our relationship and I like hearing what they have to say. Having my boy done in a few weeks actually , god knows what he'll have to say xx


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## Wagtail (25 October 2011)

Chavhorse said:



			As I have said I am a total Cynic and really struggle with this, and my first thought was "absolute rot of course he can not read the name on a saddle cloth"

So I was even more shocked when having a "guess what Vardi is apparently saying he hates wearing Teds saddle cloth as if" with my the girl who is riding him for me in the UK to be told that on the day in question about 5 different people at the yard asked "oh is that horse called Ted" "oh we shall have to call him Ted from now on as a joke" ....now that I can get my head round

As I have said before I am the biggest cynic in the world but twice now this particular communicator has got stuff 100% accurate which she had no way at all of knowing.  First time the incident with his brood mare and second time with the saddle pad.

Frankly I still struggle with it.
		
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It was indeed a spooky story regarding Vardi's mother being kicked. The thing I struggle with is that he was only a 5 month old fetus and so how would he have known? I do wonder sometimes if psychics are actually picking things up not from the animals telling them, but just because they are psychic and somehow know these things. I sometimes also wonder if they are genuine psychics, whether they are actually reading the human's rather than the animals. I would really love to find one that I knew was genuine. Especially with all the problems going on with my boy at the moment, but I just have not yet been fully convinced.


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## fburton (25 October 2011)

Pearlsasinger said:



			Would this help?
		
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It might, but I'd want to actually see the whole reading for myself to convince myself there wasn't any "cold reading" stuff going on. I know this sounds terribly cynical and could even be taken to imply that I don't believe you, but I truly mean no disrespect to you personally. It's just that I believe that "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence", as Carl Sagan once said. And even if one reading was strikingly successful, as yours certainly appears to be, I would want to know how many unsuccessful or "ordinary" readings this person had also done in order to make chance (coincidence) an unlikely explanation. Also, people - and I would include myself inthis - tend to remember and talk about the unusual, and ignore and forget about the mundane. In a reading, the unusual would be the parts that stood out as matching some seemingly obscure event, while the mundane would be everything else said in a reading that didn't ring any bells.


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## RunToEarth (25 October 2011)

No, I find the whole thing crackers and don't connect with the concept at all, and my head is in the clouds an awful lot of the time! 
I have witnessed, and cannot understand why a seemingly reasonable person would enter their card details over the phone for a person they have never met before to have a chat with their equine, the whole thing is lost on me.


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## Grey_Arab (25 October 2011)

I have never personally used them, but a lady at a previous yard did for her horse that was really skittish and a worrier. She was told that he was the way he was, was because his mother had wanted a filly and so he was a disappointment to her... 
all sounds a bit loopy to me!


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## fburton (25 October 2011)

For the skeptics only (perhaps), there's a really good (imo) discussion between Derren Brown and Richard Dawkins about psychic readings...

Part 1/6: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xswt8B8-UTM
Part 2/6: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQyfsCNFyRY
Part 3/6: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnFjOh9SUXQ
Part 4/6: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbKOoyK7FCc
Part 5/6: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Q9BN4WUULI
Part 6/6: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EslEBK1ZTBU


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## JFTDWS (25 October 2011)

fburton said:



			It might, but I'd want to actually see the whole reading for myself to convince myself there wasn't any "cold reading" stuff going on. I know this sounds terribly cynical and could even be taken to imply that I don't believe you, but I truly mean no disrespect to you personally. It's just that I believe that "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence", as Carl Sagan once said. And even if one reading was strikingly successful, as yours certainly appears to be, I would want to know how many unsuccessful or "ordinary" readings this person had also done in order to make chance (coincidence) an unlikely explanation. Also, people - and I would include myself inthis - tend to remember and talk about the unusual, and ignore and forget about the mundane. In a reading, the unusual would be the parts that stood out as matching some seemingly obscure event, while the mundane would be everything else said in a reading that didn't ring any bells.
		
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Essentially what you want is a degree of scientific analysis of this sort of event (unless I misunderstand you).  All the evidence provided here is anecdotal - and whilst I don't necessarily think people are making things up, I also think that it's very easy for things to be misunderstood, or for people who want to believe to see evidence where there is none, and anecdotes about how good this communicator was arise.  If you had an independent means of analysing how much of what the AC said, without any (unwitting?) guidance from the owner, and could accumulate enough data from ACs and enough cases you could assess how high the frequency of truth was.  

If you wanted to have some fun, you could employ fake ACs to peddle a load of likely/plausible stories to owners at random, you could even see how likely it was that they got things right just by chance.  That's before you consider introducing knowledgable horse people into the equation, who might be able to spot things that other people don't notice and use them to their advantage (subtle behavioural clues, old injuries etc).

Actually you could have fun working up a study like that.  I'd love to be a fake AC   But that aside, if you could show an unexplained degree and frequency in the stories of real ACs, then us sceptics my have to think again!


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## fburton (25 October 2011)

JFTD said:



			Essentially what you want is a degree of scientific analysis of this sort of event (unless I misunderstand you).  All the evidence provided here is anecdotal - and whilst I don't necessarily think people are making things up, I also think that it's very easy for things to be misunderstood, or for people who want to believe to see evidence where there is none, and anecdotes about how good this communicator was arise.  If you had an independent means of analysing how much of what the AC said, without any (unwitting?) guidance from the owner, and could accumulate enough data from ACs and enough cases you could assess how high the frequency of truth was.
		
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Yes - precisely! 



JFTD said:



			But that aside, if you could show an unexplained degree and frequency in the stories of real ACs, then us sceptics my have to think again!
		
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That would be very exciting, wouldn't it?


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## WeeBrown (25 October 2011)

I don't know if I believe or not. I don't have any horses with unidentified injuries but I can see how owners might go down that route if all else has failed - what have they got to lose?!! However, I would be much more inclined to part with my cash if I thought the communication was a two way street, if the communicator could get some things across to the horse - like pooing in one area of the stable would be helpful and pointing out that the green thing next to the menege is not a scary monster.


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## JFTDWS (25 October 2011)

fburton said:



			That would be very exciting, wouldn't it?
		
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It would open up a lot of new avenues for scientific exploration, certainly.  Lots of funding coming my way for being behind that trial, so yes, very exciting  But on an intellectual / personal level, I think I'd be a little surprised and it might take me a while to get to grips with all the ramifications of it, but yes, ultimately it would be exciting


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## YasandCrystal (25 October 2011)

Hedwards said:



			I think my problem with it really is that i have never seen any change in any of the horses 'communicated' with, the change i see is in the owner...  which is why i think its a placebo effect, which if it works for an owner than fair play - I just wouldnt spend money on it myself - i think the fees are incredibly expensive...(also I didnt mention horses wanting cake etc.)
		
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Hedwards why on earth would you expect to see a change in the horses communicated with?  It is just a communication a means on passing information from you to horse/animal and vice versa - why expect a change? You may get a reason for some behaviour or an answer to a question or a reassurance, but don't expect a change! My horse pin pointed his injury and pain - a chronic sacro illiac dysfunction (he had passed a 5 stage vetting) - he showed the AC himself falling down and showed his pelvis injured right hand side. The AC cost me £40 - do you know for insurance purposes it cost £3,781.00 for Sue Dyson at AHT to tell me the same. My horse was very aggressive and this didn't stop until his pain was dealt with. The communication helped by showing the injury; it was the best £40 I have ever spent.


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## feefeeb28 (25 October 2011)

I was open minded. I contacted a lady who seemed well renowned. I had to e mail a pic and she said she'd ring 2 days later. She did ring and we chatted for the allotted 40 mins. The upshot was that she felt she couldn't "speak" to my horse as he had barriers up and was so angry. She said she would keep trying and would be in touch. I'm still waiting for this follow up over a year on despite me e mailing her.
I feel very let down and fortunately my horses aggression is much better without her help. I fell for a google search! She had famous people who she'd "helped" and did  clinics etc. Total waste of money!!!


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## juliag (25 October 2011)

The lady who I have seen with my friends horses doesnt actually charge anything at all. I dont think she does photo readings. She accepts donations towards her petrol expenses, one friend of mine gives her £20 another £10. She is with you for as long as it takes and will happily see more than one horse for the one donation, so she is certainly not in it for the money. She has told both of my friends things they wouldnt really want to hear. One friend had bought a new 13,2 pony for her rather nervous daughter. Pony hadnt actually done anything wrong but didnt seem too happy and hadnt really settled into his new home. When Jane 'spoke' to him he told her he didnt like it in his new home. He said he missed his previous home and didnt like my friends daughter. when he was asked why this was, he told her that he missed the boy that used to ride him, he missed the gallops across the fields that they used to have. Nobody had told her that a, the pony had only been in the home for a few months or so. and b, that he had previously been owned by a boy. My friends daughter was very nervous and so far they had only walked and trotted along the lanes all very quiet and controlled. 
My friend after being told what the problem was with the pony asked another more confident rider to hack out on the pony a couple of times a week, making sure he was taken across fields for a good gallop and got to jump as many logs as he could find. The pony was transformed by his new rides.


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## Pearlsasinger (25 October 2011)

fburton said:



			It might, but I'd want to actually see the whole reading for myself to convince myself there wasn't any "cold reading" stuff going on. I know this sounds terribly cynical and could even be taken to imply that I don't believe you, but I truly mean no disrespect to you personally. It's just that I believe that "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence", as Carl Sagan once said. And even if one reading was strikingly successful, as yours certainly appears to be, I would want to know how many unsuccessful or "ordinary" readings this person had also done in order to make chance (coincidence) an unlikely explanation. Also, people - and I would include myself inthis - tend to remember and talk about the unusual, and ignore and forget about the mundane. In a reading, the unusual would be the parts that stood out as matching some seemingly obscure event, while the mundane would be everything else said in a reading that didn't ring any bells.
		
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I quite agree that people would most likely only pick out the bits of a 'communication' that made sense to them and forget about any other bits.  I'm not sure what you mean by 'cold reading'.  Don't worry I didn't take offence, you don't know me from Adam and any or all of us could be making all our posts up on any thread.  
I can only tell you that the initial reading was done by e-mail from a photo which was provided by e-mail when the AC posted on-line asking for horses to practise on.  I re-iterate that NO money has ever changed hands.  Sis and AC regularly hold phone conversations, usually for AC to pass on what the horse had said now, apparently she sometimes interrupts when AC is communicating with other horses and has acted as an interpretor,  ( I expect this making you even more dubious).  There is no reading of body language going on and the AC has never been to our yard or met any of our horses in the flesh.
The things that have convinced  me about the veracity have been the off-the-wall things that are very specific to individual horses, like Vardi's numnah, the pony's birthday cake and our JRT.  These seem to me to be things which a 'horsey person' who is a charlatan would be unlikely to be able to make up or to be the kind of generalisations which owners who are 'desperate to believe' (as another poster put it) would be able to twist to their particular situation.
There were several other things which the AC put into her original reading which were specific to our horses and were unlikely to have been generalisations but which were not so unusual that no-one could have made them up, although it would have been a massive co-incidence for them to have been made up in relation to our particular horses - how many horses do you know who have been hobbled by the farrier?  We know that this had happened and the AC told us about it.


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## Wagtail (25 October 2011)

WeeBrown said:



			I don't know if I believe or not. I don't have any horses with unidentified injuries but I can see how owners might go down that route if all else has failed - what have they got to lose?!! However, I would be much more inclined to part with my cash if I thought the communication was a two way street, if the communicator could get some things across to the horse - like pooing in one area of the stable would be helpful and pointing out that the green thing next to the menege is not a scary monster.
		
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Now that is a very good point! If horses can communicate with ACs then why not the other way around? 

Actually, my mare already poos in one pile in the corner and nowhere else. Problem is, that's where she also sleeps!


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## Wagtail (25 October 2011)

YasandCrystal said:



			Hedwards why on earth would you expect to see a change in the horses communicated with?  It is just a communication a means on passing information from you to horse/animal and vice versa - why expect a change? You may get a reason for some behaviour or an answer to a question or a reassurance, but don't expect a change! My horse pin pointed his injury and pain - a chronic sacro illiac dysfunction (he had passed a 5 stage vetting) - he showed the AC himself falling down and showed his pelvis injured right hand side. The AC cost me £40 - do you know for insurance purposes it cost £3,781.00 for Sue Dyson at AHT to tell me the same. My horse was very aggressive and this didn't stop until his pain was dealt with. The communication helped by showing the injury; it was the best £40 I have ever spent.
		
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Sounds amazing. Which AC did you use? Sorry, if you have already mentioned this and I missed it.


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## 5horses2dogsandacat (26 October 2011)

I'm fully convinced, and never really needed convincing. Yes there are people out there try to make money out of innocent people. 
I've read too many books and seen too many things for it not to be real. 
I also believe that its not a gift its actually something that can be  learnt. It's like a sixth sense, which we all possess but over the years it been almost bred out, its to do with which side of the brain is dominant. 

Anyway ill get back in my box.....  :/


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## Bojangles (26 October 2011)

YasandCrystal said:



			Hedwards why on earth would you expect to see a change in the horses communicated with?  It is just a communication a means on passing information from you to horse/animal and vice versa - why expect a change? You may get a reason for some behaviour or an answer to a question or a reassurance, but don't expect a change! My horse pin pointed his injury and pain - a chronic sacro illiac dysfunction (he had passed a 5 stage vetting) - he showed the AC himself falling down and showed his pelvis injured right hand side. The AC cost me £40 - do you know for insurance purposes it cost £3,781.00 for Sue Dyson at AHT to tell me the same. My horse was very aggressive and this didn't stop until his pain was dealt with. The communication helped by showing the injury; it was the best £40 I have ever spent.
		
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I think it all depends on the AC senses if that make sense?? Like some can see the whole past,some can hear,some can taste it all- which isnt nice for them if it invoce blood gut's etc. I know though all the treatment's mine has had with a AC he have changed. So yes they do change though a AC treatment. YC- I would say your's has changed as he is no longer aggressive not being in pain now that's all though the AC as they pin point it too. Shame it cost so much on the insurance!! 

Mine is now a very calm boy now nothing like he used to be!


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## FionaM12 (26 October 2011)

Wow. I've been at work (no internet) for 24 hours and this thread's been very busy while I've been away!

The posts are really interesting, but I don't think it helps me make my mind up. I am somewhat surprised by the enormous number of people who DO so strongly believe.

Like many here, I cannot accept that animals grasp such human concepts as being a disappointment to their mother, birthday cakes, the link between scales/weight/food portions and tastes in accessories (rugs and tack) etc.

I also cannot swallow the reading a photo thing. That just seems too far fetched. As does the idea that a missing dog is sending messages to an AC he's never met, to help him to be found.

But I don't entirely reject it all. I am convinced that there's still much we don't understand about the world and just because it can't be proved, doesn't mean something isn't possible. However unlikely.

But perhaps that's just because I WANT to believe, and maybe in the end that's all any of it's about. We so much want to believe that we convince ourselves something miraculous has happened.

Especially if we've just paid £50 for it.


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## YasandCrystal (26 October 2011)

Wagtail said:



			Sounds amazing. Which AC did you use? Sorry, if you have already mentioned this and I missed it.
		
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Jackie Weaver


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## Frumpoon (26 October 2011)

YasandCrystal said:



			Jackie Weaver 

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She said my horse had a pain in his sacro-iliac region too...I think she has a bunch of standard 'diagnoses' she comes out with....


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## FionaM12 (26 October 2011)

Looking at that lady's website, there are afew things I find hard to accept. For example, the Grand National winner who she quotes as saying, "It was great, it made me famous!"

I don't believe animals have an understanding of how our competitions and shows work. They may enjoy the company of the other animals, the fuss, the day out or the race itself possibly. But I don't see how they'd know who'd "won" or even understand that concept.

As for fame amongst humans... How would a horse know that?


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## mcrobbiena (26 October 2011)

He would know he won because he was first past the line and he has been trained to race the other horses, then he went into the winners enclosure with a special rug and was cheered and patted by every person he passes. 
I would say that wasn't the hardest thing to understand. 

I am still unsure I really want to believe but part of me can't! I wish there was someone near here that would do a test reading for free that sounds a hoot! But I am not prepared to pay £50 for a stranger to talk to my horse or dog on a phone. I am easily carried away when people tell me positive experiences though until I say it out loud. "I think I will pay £50 for a lady to call my horse for a chat" I think any sane person would.


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## Morgan123 (26 October 2011)

FionaM12 said:



			Looking at that lady's website, there are afew things I find hard to accept. For example, the Grand National winner who she quotes as saying, "It was great, it made me famous!"

I don't believe animals have an understanding of how our competitions and shows work. They may enjoy the company of the other animals, the fuss, the day out or the race itself possibly. But I don't see how they'd know who'd "won" or even understand that concept.

As for fame amongst humans... How would a horse know that?
		
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Why not? The fame is among the horse - a horse can understand how people are reacting to it. If lots of people are reacting to it saying 'Oh look there's so and so', getting excited when they see it, crowds of people saying its name - why wouldn't they understand that?

Similarly to winning - especially wiht racing. In fact - have you ridden many racehorses? They have to understand that racing is about getting to the front to actually be any good - racing and winning is one of the simplest notions to them. Similarly, my showjumpers definitely DEFINITELY know when they've won (when they jump nicely and fast, then end up being at the front of a line up wiht lots of smiling and rewards). They react completely differently to when they're further down the line up (though of course I sitll reward them btw!). 

I don't think these are tricky concepts - and even if they are, when there is so much accurate info coming from these communicators it seems a bit bizarre to discount that just becuase you don't believe a horse can understand one concept.


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## mcrobbiena (26 October 2011)

2 of mine are like that in the ring, If they win they stand there happily posing, the mare only likes 1st rosettes despite how chuffed I am with being further down the line she will shake her rosette off or not let them put in on her. She also fidgets when she is down the line but loves being first. I agree with the poster who said that some have bog standard lines I have heard of a few back men like that too. "trapped nerve behind the saddle" ...


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## YasandCrystal (26 October 2011)

Frumpoon said:



			She said my horse had a pain in his sacro-iliac region too...I think she has a bunch of standard 'diagnoses' she comes out with....
		
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Well darned good guess then considering he hadn't been to Newmarket at that stage. Mine has got sacro illiac dysfunction so she was spot on. 'Back pain' would have been generic.

My horse said loads of things and kept repeating that he wasn't 'naughty' or a 'problem horse' and he quoted all the things he lets you do like 'good with farrier' 'good to travel' and 'I don't at charge her in the paddock'. It was very accurate for me.


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## FionaM12 (26 October 2011)

I still don't get the "winning" thing. I can see that a horse is aware of being fussed, that they often like to run in front of the herd etc. But I think competitiveness and winning shows and races are human concepts.

As for fame, a horse might become aware that there is a change of behaviour in the humans around him. But I don't think he'd understand the concept of fame as such as again, it's an entirely human concept.

Also, I think there's a difference in a horse (possibly) knowing he's done well by being first past the post, and standing in his stable years later reminiscing about that time he won the National and how famous it made him. 

What this shows to me is that there are an awful lot of people who think their horses see the world in human terms.


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## Frumpoon (26 October 2011)

YasandCrystal said:



			Well darned good guess then considering he hadn't been to Newmarket at that stage. Mine has got sacro illiac dysfunction so she was spot on. 'Back pain' would have been generic.

My horse said loads of things and kept repeating that he wasn't 'naughty' or a 'problem horse' and he quoted all the things he lets you do like 'good with farrier' 'good to travel' and 'I don't at charge her in the paddock'. It was very accurate for me.
		
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Ah see she just told me a general pain in the S-I region...she does promise not to diagnose illnesses on her website, she also used to promise not to try and talk to dead or missing animals but she does now - more profitable I assume?


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## Hedwards (26 October 2011)

FionaM12 said:



			I still don't get the "winning" thing. I can see that a horse is aware of being fussed, that they often like to run in front of the herd etc. But I think competitiveness and winning shows and races are human concepts.

As for fame, a horse might become aware that there is a change of behaviour in the humans around him. But I don't think he'd understand the concept of fame as such as again, it's an entirely human concept.

What this shows to me is that there are an awful lot of people who think their horses see the world in human terms.
		
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I'm completely with you on this, and that any change in behaviour of the horse, is a reflection of the handlers/people around them - not an understanding by the horse that they have 'won'. (hence my previous 'placebo' comments and the fact i have never seen a 'change' in the horses)


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## FionaM12 (26 October 2011)

Hedwards said:



			I'm completely with you on this, and that any change in behaviour of the horse, is a reflection of the handlers/people around them - not an understanding by the horse that they have 'won'. (hence my previous 'placebo' comments and the fact i have never seen a 'change' in the horses)
		
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Yes, I think that's it. If I go up to my dog right now and suddenly make a big fuss of him and tell him he's a good dog, he'll leap around happily and look very pleased with himself.

But he'll have no idea why I did it.  He'll just enjoy the moment.

The horse which allegedly reminisces about The Grand National would have to know which race it was, know it's a significant race, know he'd "won" it and connect those facts with peoples' later reactions. Not only would he have to make those giant leaps in understanding, he'd have to remember it all years later.

I cannot accept that.


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## fburton (26 October 2011)

FionaM12 said:



			The horse which allegedly reminisces about The Grand National would have to know which race it was, know it's a significant race, know he'd "won" it and connect those facts with peoples' later reactions. Not only would he have to make those giant leaps in understanding, he'd have to remember it all years later.
		
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Agreed - I think it does horses a disservice to think otherwise (because it takes a person's understanding away from their real nature, potentially leading to bad decisions based on that misunderstanding).


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## Horsesgalore (26 October 2011)

Morgan123 said:



			In fact - have you ridden many racehorses? 


DEFINITELY know when they've won (when they jump nicely and fast, then end up being at the front of a line up wiht lots of smiling 

I don't think these are tricky concepts
		
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What does whether we've ridden racehorses have to do with anything? 

Lots of SMILING? Surely that's human language. Since when did we believe horses appreciate smiles?

They're easy concepts for a human. There's no evidence a horse understands them.


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## fburton (26 October 2011)

Pearlsasinger said:



			I quite agree that people would most likely only pick out the bits of a 'communication' that made sense to them and forget about any other bits.  I'm not sure what you mean by 'cold reading'.  Don't worry I didn't take offence, you don't know me from Adam and any or all of us could be making all our posts up on any thread.  
I can only tell you that the initial reading was done by e-mail from a photo which was provided by e-mail when the AC posted on-line asking for horses to practise on.  I re-iterate that NO money has ever changed hands.  Sis and AC regularly hold phone conversations, usually for AC to pass on what the horse had said now, apparently she sometimes interrupts when AC is communicating with other horses and has acted as an interpretor,  ( I expect this making you even more dubious).  There is no reading of body language going on and the AC has never been to our yard or met any of our horses in the flesh.
The things that have convinced  me about the veracity have been the off-the-wall things that are very specific to individual horses, like Vardi's numnah, the pony's birthday cake and our JRT.  These seem to me to be things which a 'horsey person' who is a charlatan would be unlikely to be able to make up or to be the kind of generalisations which owners who are 'desperate to believe' (as another poster put it) would be able to twist to their particular situation.
There were several other things which the AC put into her original reading which were specific to our horses and were unlikely to have been generalisations but which were not so unusual that no-one could have made them up, although it would have been a massive co-incidence for them to have been made up in relation to our particular horses - how many horses do you know who have been hobbled by the farrier?  We know that this had happened and the AC told us about it.
		
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Thanks for this, and for not taking offence at my skepticism.  Your story is definitely an intriguing one and I admit that no obvious explanations leap to mind, apart from the AC reading stuff about your horses and situation online - but I presume you can rule that one out too?


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## Morgan123 (26 October 2011)

Horsesgalore said:



			What does whether we've ridden racehorses have to do with anything? 

Lots of SMILING? Surely that's human language. Since when did we believe horses appreciate smiles?

They're easy concepts for a human. There's no evidence a horse understands them.
		
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Oops sorry - I jsut meant, if you ride racehorses or are around them then you can certainly see that they understand racing - they know they have to get to the front! should have worded that better.

Agree re: smiling - there are studies showing dogs understand smiling, would be interested to se if any similar ones about horses. however I think most people would agree that horses understand the moods of people around them. Lots of happy people (particularly rider) is really what I meant - the smiling of course being the expression of that whether or not the horse understands the actual smile itself! I think a horse can know when it's performed well in a competition. With time these links like jumping well/being in front of a line up/rosette/treats/happy owners can certainly build up - it would be strange if they didn't infact, no? Would you disagree?


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## Horsesgalore (26 October 2011)

Morgan123 said:



			I think a horse can know when it's performed well in a competition. With time these links like jumping well/being in front of a line up/rosette/treats/happy owners can certainly build up - it would be strange if they didn't infact, no? Would you disagree?
		
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I think the horse knows we're pleased, I doubt it understands the specifics of why. It probably knows when it's been obedient and done as asked, but I don't expect it understands the very human concept of organised competition.

Tbh I think saying it would be "strange" if it didn't make those links, is to not accept it's a horse rather than a person.


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## Morgan123 (26 October 2011)

Horsesgalore said:



			I think the horse knows we're pleased, I doubt it understands the specifics of why. It probably knows when it's been obedient and done as asked, but I don't expect it understands the very human concept of organised competition.

Tbh I think saying it would be "strange" if it didn't make those links, is to not accept it's a horse rather than a person.
		
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But this is just the mechanics of learning theory. E.g. when you do clicker training, you're linking certain things together - the horse is rewarded when it touches the ball (for example). Winning a race is same. Linking getting past all the others, with lots of praise. 

Sounds like this is a fundamental difference in how we view horses in which case we'll have to agree ot disagree on that poiny ;-), but I do genuinely think they're capable of that. 

Also - I think that discounting everything an otherwise accurate A/C is saying simply becuase you don't believe a horse is capable of one of the things it's saying could be a bit limiting couldn't it?


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## Hedwards (26 October 2011)

Morgan123 said:



			But this is just the mechanics of learning theory. E.g. when you do clicker training, you're linking certain things together - the horse is rewarded when it touches the ball (for example). Winning a race is same. Linking getting past all the others, with lots of praise. 

Sounds like this is a fundamental difference in how we view horses in which case we'll have to agree ot disagree on that poiny ;-), but I do genuinely think they're capable of that. 

Also - I think that discounting everything an otherwise accurate A/C is saying simply becuase you don't believe a horse is capable of one of the things it's saying could be a bit limiting couldn't it?
		
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I personally cant connect clicker training to a horse winning a race - clicker training works on an immediate reward for an action, however a horse winning a race will get lots of patts from its jockey initially (as do a lot of the horses in the race), then make its way back with the other horses to the collecting ring/winners enclosure before it gets the 'applause' and reward - and I believe most horses when coming back in from a race will get a certain amount of reward, as well as seeing and hearing all the people in the crowd... I cant see how a horse can ever 'know' or 'understand' that it has won something


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## Morgan123 (26 October 2011)

Interesting - I would have said it's in the atmosphere and the ongoing positivity. Maybe I'm wrong (obviously I don't think so cos this is my opinion but still ;-)!) but when I finish an SJ round, or an XC, or dressage test, or whatever - my horse having done something BIG well (I do see your point re: clicker training being small move/instant reward) - the positive effect for the horse lasts ages, i.e.  he looks pleased with himself, I am acting positively toward him (that will last probably the whole way home, when he gets an extra nice tea back at home, etc etc). Of course, I am anthropomorphasising becuase I've said he looks 'pleased' with himself - but whether or not you think a horse cna feel 'pleased wiht himself' I don't see any reason that doing something big well can't link with a big/ongoing reward, and be understood as such. They do have memories and remember things, and 'the bigger the effort the bigger the reward' isn't a massive concept to grasp either? I do see others disagree but i certainly allow my horses that much intelligence. 

Oh something interesting I just thought of while we're philosophising about this - I find that in the horse world people seem to delimit what positive things they think horses understand (e.g. the conept of winning), but actually if you think about it negatively then it's a lot more accepted to be understood. E.g. if your horse had a bad experience at a competition - say, i don't know, it was a wuss and got a big scare in an indoor school because of a loud bang or feedback from the sound system or something and freaked out and the rider fell off - then you may well expect it to be shaken up all the way home and that evening/act more nervy for longer/make assosciations for next time it came to that situation, wouldn't you? Similarly with being naughty? I'm just pondering here, would be interested to know what others think!


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## Spotsrock (26 October 2011)

Morgan123 said:



			Oops sorry - I jsut meant, if you ride racehorses or are around them then you can certainly see that they understand racing - they know they have to get to the front! should have worded that better.

Agree re: smiling - there are studies showing dogs understand smiling, would be interested to se if any similar ones about horses. however I think most people would agree that horses understand the moods of people around them. Lots of happy people (particularly rider) is really what I meant - the smiling of course being the expression of that whether or not the horse understands the actual smile itself! I think a horse can know when it's performed well in a competition. With time these links like jumping well/being in front of a line up/rosette/treats/happy owners can certainly build up - it would be strange if they didn't infact, no? Would you disagree?
		
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I agree horses know some facial expressions.

If I look a bit down, my old mare will 'groom' my tummy which makes me laugh, when I laugh she then flips her head up with her ears pricked and does it again, has been doing for years. When I smile at Beau she pricks her ears and if I cry she actually lets me cuddle her (very non tactile normally) so I think they do know a bit. Racers definatly know they should be in front, well, the good ones anyway! And it's not just horse nature to be in front when fleeing as my mare knows to stay behind on hacks unless I tell her it's ok to go. Maybe it's learnt behaviour but if so then what's to say they don't learn to 'read' our expressions? Body language is a huge part of horse communication so surely it's only natural that they would try in order to make some sense of the strage animal that brings carrotts!


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## rubysmum (26 October 2011)

to my slight shame - in my poverty stricken student days, i used to do tarot readings for hard cash - i have NO  physic abilities at all - but am good at cold readings, understanding body language & have some basic understanding of human pyschology - i am sure that there were people i read for who believed i had some special powers
HOWEVER - a couple of years ago - someone was training to be an AC & was looking for pets  to practise on - i dont know her, she doesnt know my horse & was simply sent a photo - she told me that rubys' happiest memory was being given an ice cream - it had happened some yrs before when i & my small child were out hacking & we stopped at an ice cream van - i GENUINELY do not know how she knew this


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## FionaM12 (26 October 2011)

Hedwards said:



			I personally cant connect clicker training to a horse winning a race - clicker training works on an immediate reward for an action, however a horse winning a race will get lots of patts from its jockey initially (as do a lot of the horses in the race), then make its way back with the other horses to the collecting ring/winners enclosure before it gets the 'applause' and reward - and I believe most horses when coming back in from a race will get a certain amount of reward, as well as seeing and hearing all the people in the crowd... I cant see how a horse can ever 'know' or 'understand' that it has won something
		
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Totally agree with this. Just because an animal can learn the action/reward mechanism does not in any way show it understands the very complex idea of winning a competition. 

I believe that thinking a horse shares our human obsessions with competing, celebrity and fame or even has the faintest ideas about those concepts is to fail to even begin to be able to understand how a horse sees the world.


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## FionaM12 (26 October 2011)

fburton said:



			Agreed - I think it does horses a disservice to think otherwise (because it takes a person's understanding away from their real nature, potentially leading to bad decisions based on that misunderstanding).
		
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Nail on the head really.


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## Wagtail (26 October 2011)

rubysmum said:



			she told me that rubys' happiest memory was being given an ice cream - it had happened some yrs before when i & my small child were out hacking & we stopped at an ice cream van - i GENUINELY do not know how she knew this
		
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That is so sweet if she really did know this and it wasn't a lucky guess. Having said that, I don't think that many horses would like ice cream. Mine certainly don't so not a common occurance. It would be lovely to think that horses did have the ability to think back on happy times. We know for sure they have very good memories. I just wonder if they are able to actually ponder them, or whether they are not simply stimulated by something happening?


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## dreamcometrue (26 October 2011)

Mrs B said:



			"personally i feel that AC and psychics are a load of twaddle.

however people need to take comfort where they can, if that is meeting and having dealings with these people then fair enough, that is their choice and their  own money they are spending - not mine." - Dancing Queen

"I think that they would have to be the last resort, when your own mind and rationalisation has has been lost. I cannot say that I would NEVER use one as I have never been in that situation. So I suppose that I am open minded on the subject." - Lionman

Oooh! Close run competition for most patronising posts of the evening, Ladies & Gentlemen! 

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Yes, and you win.


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## JFTDWS (26 October 2011)

Wagtail said:



			That is so sweet if she really did know this and it wasn't a lucky guess. Having said that, I don't think that many horses would like ice cream. Mine certainly don't so not a common occurance. It would be lovely to think that horses did have the ability to think back on happy times. We know for sure they have very good memories. I just wonder if they are able to actually ponder them, or whether they are not simply stimulated by something happening?
		
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Mine love an ice cream   Mine happily eat anything to be honest...  Look at it another way - most people couldn't prove that their horse has never had ice cream - even if they've owned them all their life, it's possible a passer by happened to give them one in the field (though that would be unlikely / unwise!) and if the owner then tries to offer her ice cream to see if she likes it, and she doesn't, it could just be the wrong brand


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## FionaM12 (26 October 2011)

JFTD said:



			if the owner then tries to offer her ice cream to see if she likes it, and she doesn't, it could just be the wrong brand 

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I've never offered a horse ice cream, but I'd have thought they'd like all that sugar?


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## Pearlsasinger (26 October 2011)

fburton said:



			Thanks for this, and for not taking offence at my skepticism.  Your story is definitely an intriguing one and I admit that no obvious explanations leap to mind, apart from the AC reading stuff about your horses and situation online - but I presume you can rule that one out too?
		
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Yes of course!
When the AC first made contact she told us a lot of things that only we and other family members knew about the history of several of our horses.  We don't actually put many details on-line, as we don't particularly want to be identifiable by strangers.
As I said previously, we certainly hadn't advertised the fact that we were storing a dead dog in a plastic barrel in our yard, I'm not sure the neighbours would have appreciated that!

Just as an additional note to the arguing about racehorses, do none of these people remember Red Rum thinking he was racing when he went to do public appearances?  And whatever explanation these people can find for that, Ginger McCann certainly thought that was what happening.


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## FionaM12 (26 October 2011)

Pearlsasinger said:



			we certainly hadn't advertised the fact that we were storing a dead dog in a plastic barrel in our yard,
		
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 That has to be one of the most surreal statements here for a while...


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## FionaM12 (26 October 2011)

Pearlsasinger said:



			Just as an additional note to the arguing about racehorses, do none of these people remember Red Rum thinking he was racing when he went to do public appearances?  And whatever explanation these people can find for that, Ginger McCann certainly thought that was what happening.
		
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Hmm. We would be able to tell RR was excited, but how could anyone tell he thought he was racing? 

I can well believe a horse would recognise racing tracks as places that exciting things have happened to them. My old horse used to get very excited when he recognised a place he'd previously had a good gallop too.

But that still doesn't mean they grasp the concept of "winning".


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## Pearlsasinger (26 October 2011)

FionaM12 said:



			Hmm. We would be able to tell RR was excited, but how could anyone tell he thought he was racing? 

I can well believe a horse would recognise racing tracks as places that exciting things have happened to them. My old horse used to get very excited when he recognised a place he'd previously had a good gallop too.

But that still doesn't mean they grasp the concept of "winning".
		
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Sorry I can't explain it, you'd have to ask Ginger McCain himself.
But then you'd have to get a medium............


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## FionaM12 (26 October 2011)

Pearlsasinger said:



			Sorry I can't explain it, you'd have to ask Ginger McCain himself.
But then you'd have to get a medium............
		
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I think we've just come full circle.


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## Elf On A Shelf (26 October 2011)

FionaM12 said:



			But that still doesn't mean they grasp the concept of "winning".
		
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I dunno! They defo appear to get the idea between doing well and not so well. The lad I ride at the moment - he goes out on the track and he tries his hardest every step of the way. He always comes back in to big pats and a hug from me no matter what but he always carries himself more upright and prouder (well he seems to me as if he does) as he swaggers into the winners enclosure when he has done well. And isn't a zippy horse - he is an out and out 3miler so by all rights he should be pooped when he gets back. He is the same up the gallops. For the last 3 weeks we have claimed the scalp of every single horse in the yard (Podge is a 98 rated 11yo - we took out the 159, 157, 145, 136, 133 and 132 in the last week  along with everything else we have worked with  ) And he always swaggers home. Today he wasn't at the top of his game. Ok he took me up the hill better than the rest of the string but that was only half of what he can do and he seemed to know it. He just plodded home head stretched to the floor. 

I dunno, maybe it's just me giving him personalities and emotions he doesn't really have or maybe he is picking it up from me. Who knows - one thing I would like to know though is what he would "say" to an AC! Could make for interesting reading!


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## FionaM12 (27 October 2011)

EKW said:



			I dunno, maybe it's just me giving him personalities and emotions he doesn't really have or maybe he is picking it up from me. Who knows - one thing I would like to know though is what he would "say" to an AC!
		
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I do wonder tbh if this is exactly why most people call in an AC? They do want to give their horse personalties & human emotions, as you say. The desire to bring that about (or their curiosity that it might be so) means they can't resist trying an AC and then clouds their opinions when they get the "result".


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## charleysummer (27 October 2011)

Judging by the fact the AC can repeat the perfect english speech of the animals then I'll have one out to my mare

...

She's from holland !

Im not skeptical, im scientific. Although being a scientific person I also understand that a lot of science cannot be explained and there may be many loop holes- if everything formed from the big bang and simple elements- then who knows where connections can lie between energy and communication? 

however horses do not get embarrased at coloured clothing.. they cant see colours that well and have a blurred vision up close. They also do not know what winning is- if they did then my horse would fully understand if she wins she gets more treats


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## Morgan123 (27 October 2011)

Charleysummer - Actually another thing that i find interesting is that if you read the things these ACs say about how they communicate, they all say the same stuff. Of course, they could be feeding off one another or go to some central con-school where they learn what to say - but they do all say that for the most part the communication happens in pictures, videos, and feelings rather than words, so they can 'speak' with animals who are from other countries. Of course that is quite convenient for them but acutally it does make sense becuase clearly we'd all expect a horse to 'think' in pictures (if you are the sort of person that thinks a horse thinks at all, if you see what I mean!).

Similarly - you say your horse doesn't know when it's winning - but don't we, time and time again, see animals in competition going out of their way to exert themselves to do well? When showjumping mine CERTAINLY know how to get me out of trouble if I mis-stride a jump off, they know their job is to jump clear and fast and they definitely definitely know when they've done that well. The concept of winning is of course different in somehting like showjumping to something like racing (much simpler!) but I don't see why it wouldn't be understood? Maybe I'm wrong - but, again, given the amount of correct informaiton gained by these people, it seems niave to reject it all becuase of being unable to suspend belief about one concept just because we don't think horses can think that!


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## FionaM12 (27 October 2011)

Morgan123 said:



			it seems niave to reject it all
		
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Trouble is, the "other side" would equally say it's niave to be "taken in" by animal communicators.

I started this thread in two minds, and rather wanted to believe. But in fact, as the posts have come in, I've increasingly found myself convinced it's pure superstition. The anecdotal evidence doesn't really sway me and the link to the highly recommended AC's website just made me doubt further. 

Sad really, it's a lovely idea. But so is Father Christmas.


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## JFTDWS (27 October 2011)

FionaM12 said:



			But so is Father Christmas. 

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I don't understand - you're not saying Father Christmas isn't real, are you


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## FionaM12 (27 October 2011)

JFTD said:



			I don't understand - you're not saying Father Christmas isn't real, are you   

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I'm sorry JFTD.  Personally, I don't think there's a God either.


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## JFTDWS (27 October 2011)

FionaM12 said:



			I'm sorry JFTD.  Personally, I don't think there's a God either. 

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I'm not worried about God, he doesn't have any pets to go hungry - what will the reindeer do without Santa???


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## FionaM12 (27 October 2011)

JFTD said:



			I'm not worried about God, he doesn't have any pets to go hungry - what will the reindeer do without Santa???   

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Don't worry, surely the elves will take good care of them? 

Hang on, don't tell me!! Not elves too??  Nooooooooo


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## Rhandir (27 October 2011)

well .... I've just had a reading for my very complex little mare and I have to say that it was incredibly accurate. I told her nothing of the problems I was having with her, letting her tell me ... she was spot on on all accounts. She did tell me to do certain things in the future, which I will try, just to see if it does make any difference ... if it does I will be totally blown away.


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## JFTDWS (27 October 2011)

FionaM12 said:



			Don't worry, surely the elves will take good care of them? 

Hang on, don't tell me!! Not elves too??  Nooooooooo
		
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We need to set up a relief mission to the North Pole to take the reindeer hay.  We could get all the nice HHOers to fill shoe boxes with hay and reindeer treats for them and take them up there? We could call it "Operation Christmas Deer"?


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## FionaM12 (27 October 2011)

JFTD said:





We need to set up a relief mission to the North Pole to take the reindeer hay.  We could get all the nice HHOers to fill shoe boxes with hay and reindeer treats for them and take them up there? We could call it "Operation Christmas Deer"? 

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Or, we could save ourselves a journey and just get an Animal Communicator to let the reindeer know that there's no Santa Clause, so they should just take care of themselves from now on.

Or is that just silly?


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## JFTDWS (27 October 2011)

FionaM12 said:



			Or, we could save ourselves a journey and just get an Animal Communicator to let the reindeer know that there's no Santa Clause, so they should just take care of themselves from now on.

Or is that just silly?
		
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And waste a perfectly good trip to the North pole? 

But I like how you've dragged this little digression right back on topic


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## Horsesgalore (28 October 2011)

JFTD said:



			And waste a perfectly good trip to the North pole? 

But I like how you've dragged this little digression right back on topic 

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hahahaha! I've really enjoyed this thread. Tend to agree it's not going to tempt me off the fence though. Still suspect it's hogwash.


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## PucciNPoni (28 October 2011)

I like the IDEA of animal communicators. But to be honest, I have yet to see any proof or any kind of evidence to help me believe.   I think if you're around animals enough, and think logically enough - you'll realise that we are capable of understanding them without the need of a translator.


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## Horsesgalore (28 October 2011)

PucciNPoni said:



			I like the IDEA of animal communicators. But to be honest, I have yet to see any proof or any kind of evidence to help me believe.   I think if you're around animals enough, and think logically enough - you'll realise that we are capable of understanding them without the need of a translator.
		
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What a sensible post! Absolutley with you there.


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## Chooster (14 November 2011)

To the OP

I would just like to clarify the following points in relation to your posting, particularly in response to the following para if indeed your posting is in relation to Brook! If it is not then accept my apologies!

"There's a really sad case of a lost/stolen dog near where I live. It's adoring owners are doing everything they can to get it back: maximum publicity, press, tv, radio, offering huge reward, and now they've got an AC on the case. I don't think the AC has never met the missing dog, but has described the place she believes the missing dog's at, and a person allegedly connected with its disappearance."

Firstly, the maximum publicity, press, tv, radio and huge reward are indeed correct but secondly and perhaps more importantly can I just stress that the AC has voluntarily come forward and offered help and there is no financial gain for the AC. Many people have offered help and no help is turned down, no matter how small or seemingly irrelevant the gesture. The AC is one of many and as there is a small dedicated team working very hard to find Brook then all avenues are being explored, some spending time researching on information given by the AC and others keeping the daily search of ads, contacting establishments, postering, emailing and generally doing anything that is felt necessary! Since there is a dedicated team available then following anything and everything is possible and until one is asked to open ones mind, in extreme and distressing circumstances, then it is difficult to say whether one would refuse, afterall there is no harm if you have the resource!

In a nutshell what I am trying to say is that the search is not naively exclusive to what the AC has communicated but it is vast and varied and everyones help is greatly received.

Finally, this post is not intended to be negative towards your post, I just felt it needed a little clarification!


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