# Intermittent lameness please help!!!



## LauraJay (10 November 2013)

I have a 9yo TBxID that I've owned for just over a year. He has been intermittently lame for about three months now. I have tried everything I can possibly think of. There is never any heat/swelling and no cuts, bruising, abscesses etc. The vet has been out and cannot find anything said it would require nerve blocking etc. but I know this is incredibly expensive. I've had his teeth done, a cranial osteopath out to him - she found nothing. Had his saddle checked - it's not the best fit I do ride with a riser but the saddle itself is fine. Had his shoes changed - this seemed to help briefly. The lameness is intermittent but comes from his front left leg. It's only really noticeable when schooling on the left rein. For example, if I put him on a 20m circle on the right there's nothing. If I do it on the left he gets sluggish, he moves out fine but as soon as we come back in the head bob appears like hes avoiding putting all of his weight on that leg. Absolutely everybody has something different to say: bridle lame, he's just clever, arthritis, navicular. Any advice would be much appreciated before I wipe out my savings sending him to the vets. I've considered turning him away for the winter?


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## Meowy Catkin (10 November 2013)

Could you take some really good photos of his hooves. Front, side and rear (showing the heel bulbs) shots taken with the camera practically on the ground. Plus sole shots.

As the change of shoeing temporarily helped him, I do wonder if it's a hoof issue. I have seen some shocking hooves (long toes, under-run heels and contracted heels) that were missed by Vets and Farriers.


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## mightymammoth (10 November 2013)

my horse was intermittently lame we were convinced it was shoulder but it was his hooves. Long toes under run contracted heels unfortunately I couldn't see what was in front of me!

We had the vet to nerve block him and he blocked to his foot, we had x rays as well with him coming to the yard. The x rays showed nothing significant so we knew it was his feet that were the problem. He is now barefoot and we are a year lameness free.

You could post photos of his hooves to see if anyone can suggest anything but unless you know where the pain is coming from it could be so many things unfortuunately.


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## mightymammoth (10 November 2013)

Forgot to say I was in exactly the same position as you it was awful and totally soul destroying people also thought my horse may be putting a limp on to get out of doing anything! He would be 3 legged lame and by the time a vet came there was nothing to see. I was on eggshell all the time as to when he would break again.

Is it definitely not a brewing abscess? has a farrier used hoof testers on his bad hoof? is there any thrush in his central sulcas?


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## LauraJay (10 November 2013)

I really rate my farrier (Paul Finch if you wanted to look) so I don't feel like hed miss anything. He changed his shoes took the toe clips off and rolled the fronts. He also said his feet were growing quickly and toes were a bit long so*I have him every six months now. He was barefoot when I bought him last July. I will try and get some photos together. Lots of people are saying shoulder?


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## LauraJay (10 November 2013)

Six weeks not months!!!!


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## mightymammoth (10 November 2013)

that's exactly what everyone thought about my horse, that it was his shoulder including the vet/farrier. It was only until he blocked to the foot that the vet changed his mind.

It may be nothing to do with his hoof but I *think* about 80% of lameness (may even be more) is due problems with hooves.


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## toomanyhorses26 (10 November 2013)

please investigate - my hors showed all thes signs and it blocked to the hoof - h had some pretty serious stuff going - thankfully h is being sorted by some fabulous people and I hope to have him home soon


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## stencilface (10 November 2013)

Mine had this with a hind leg and it was PSD.


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## hnmisty (10 November 2013)

My lad (9yo tb) has been fine charging round the field but wasn't quite right in trot ridden or trotting in a circle on hard ground, on one rein worse than other. 

Vet nerveblocked and said it could be navicular but it's now been nnarrowed down to arthritis in his coffin joint. She said it's only mild as he responded quickly to the nerve block and there's hardly anything to be seen on the xrays. He's had an HA jab and has got wedges now (the sole of his hoof on the leg in concern is slightly thinner than his other leg) and the vet is coming back on Tuesday to see how he's getting on.

I was sceptical of the arthritis diagnosis at first, he passed a 5* vetting 6 months ago and he's only young. Sadly she seems to be right though. The vet did have slight queries on that leg but passed him as suitable for what I wanted to do with him...


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## LauraJay (10 November 2013)

It's so frustrating! He's exactly the same, charges round the field like an idiot. He's fine to hack out etc. It's only when schooling it's noticeable. Haven't seen him lame while lunging either.


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## mightymammoth (10 November 2013)

LauraJay said:



			It's so frustrating! He's exactly the same, charges round the field like an idiot. He's fine to hack out etc. It's only when schooling it's noticeable. Haven't seen him lame while lunging either.
		
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are you insured? I had nerve blocks, x rays and injections/ultra sound plus call outs of over £40 a time and it was around the £700 mark. Be cheaper if you can take your horse to the practice.


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## LauraJay (10 November 2013)

I do have insurance yes but I'm with E and L. I've heard some really bad reviews, people have said lots of vets want you to pay upfront and claim it back off them but it's difficult to get. The excess is 17.5% of the final bill too. I've been told to expect the x-rays, nerve blocks etc. to cost £1500-£1800?


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## stencilface (10 November 2013)

First thing to do then is change insurance company!

Nerve blocks and X-rays it's difficult to know a price as it depends on how hard the lameness is to diagnose. Speaking as someone who has spent the last three years with ever bit of saved or spare cash going on vets fees excesses for three different lamenesses!


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## cptrayes (10 November 2013)

Get the shoes back off and I bet he comes sound. Why did you shoe him when you bought him barefoot?


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## LauraJay (10 November 2013)

When I went to try him he was barefoot and he was sound. The then owner said if I was going to be doing any roadwork then she suggested shoes because she'd done very little with him the two months before I bought him. She had fronts on two days before he was delivered and then I had a full set on him about a month later. I've never had him barefoot apart from the two occasions I went to try him. And I'm unsure if I can change as I paid for the whole year upfront. I was planning on changing when it came up for renewal but they did it automatically and decided it was too much hassle to change it as they would probably find any excuse to take as long as possible to pay me back!!


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## Stushie (10 November 2013)

My last horse had exactly what you describe - very subtle and ok on the straight but head bobbing a little and short stride in front on one rein only.  My vet didn't think it was her feet - initially he thought it was her knee (she had a small swelling on her knee and has had for years).  Got her up to the vets and blocked down to the foot!  It turns out she has quite a mild side bone and with a set of heart bars / corrective farriery she is back on the road and back to normal!   My blocks and X-rays of both knees, fetlocks and feet (only xrayed feet) including 2 home visits and 1 vets visit and day stable on cost me £700!  That horse wasn't insured and so,I had to just pay it but with it she would never have came sound as vet / farrier didn't think it was her feet!   Best of luck and I hope it's something simple.


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## hnmisty (10 November 2013)

victoria1980x said:



			are you insured? I had nerve blocks, x rays and injections/ultra sound plus call outs of over £40 a time and it was around the £700 mark. Be cheaper if you can take your horse to the practice.
		
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Ditto. Got my bill here, I paid £60 for call out and nerve block. My total bill so far is £650 (I have a £250 excess on my insurance, use AmTrust who apparently are good at paying out. If they try not to, I will cry at them). That's including £80 on an HA injection.



LauraJay said:



			I do have insurance yes but I'm with E and L. I've heard some really bad reviews, people have said lots of vets want you to pay upfront and claim it back off them but it's difficult to get. The excess is 17.5% of the final bill too. I've been told to expect the x-rays, nerve blocks etc. to cost £1500-£1800?
		
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I presume that would partially depend on where the problem was- Barry responded to the very first block, so presumably that makes things cheaper. If it's on any interest to you, I paid £10 for the nerve block the first time, and £20 for a joint block (not sure what the difference is) when she did the X-rays.


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## Tiffany (10 November 2013)

I had thermal imaging done on my girl after she'd been to vets twice and I was told she wasn't lame. She wasn't but I just knew she was right. I got person out without telling her anything about my mare, the hot spots she found were the starting point for my vet and we had a diagnosis after nerve blocks and x rays.
It's much easier once you know what you are dealing with.
Good luck


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## Hoof_Prints (10 November 2013)

My horse was similar, lame for 6 weeks intermittently... similar pattern to yours, vet was stumped and farrier was stumped. Then around the 6 week mark he came in on 3 legs and I feared the worst, (hairline fracture moved and got worse, minor tendon damage gone in to a tear etc). Turned out the horse had very unusual abscess symptoms! he had got bacteria in his white line and a small pocket of pus has formed, but it kept moving so the lameness 'rumbled on' for 6 weeks. The vet still insisted that there was another more serious underlying issue but after the abscess popped he has been 100% and that was almost a year ago. Hardly any puss came out, it was a very weird situation. That did show up with hoof testers though after a few weeks


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## Flyermc (10 November 2013)

I had this with one of mine and his issue was thrush!!! he feet didnt smell (farrier/vet hadnt picked-up on it) but it was like an onion with layers of frog coming away, another very smell layer was revealed!!! the middle part of the frog looked like cotton wool at one stage!

Anyway he was on/off lame for months and no-one really knew why. Sometimes it looked like a front leg, other times a hind, sometimes perfectly sound!!

Makes sense looking back now, he wasnt completely comfortable on any of his feet and just compensated alot, which then caused other issued

Anyway, its worth looking into as its very cheap to treat!!


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## Amymay (10 November 2013)

A lameness work up will not cost thousands,  but hundreds.

If you want to know what's wrong with your horse you will need to get them done.


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## LauraJay (12 November 2013)

He's booked in for next Monday. Im just praying he has a "lame day" and it isn't a wasted trip!


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## Sheep (12 November 2013)

LauraJay, your boy sounds very similar to mine. Intermittent lameness, never terribly severe but I could see it.
Went to vets, left him in there overnight so vet could work with him as and when. Saved me paying multiple call-outs. We had nerve blocks in all four legs, 10 xrays (feet, hocks and back- he had to be sedated for this as well) and then front feet, hocks and back were medicated (sedated again). Cost me £490 in total (including 10 days worth of danilon). Fingers crossed the vet gets to the bottom of the problem. Mine was found to have arthritis in coffin joint, spavins in hocks and mild kissing spines. He is not back to ridden work just yet, but he has been working well on the lunge / long reining.


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## Heelfirst (12 November 2013)

Just wanted to comment on your case as I have been working on a very similar lameness today:
You say the horse is ok when belting around the field but different when it comes to school work.
My thinking is that the horse will come up sound with a caudal nerve block, if this is the case then the problem can be explained, understood and if in the early stages, treated.
It is very encouraging that there is a stage at which the horse appears sound, as this is the place to start.
Too many times I am referred horses that are periodically lame and the vet/farrier have started with the lameness, not with when the horse is sound! 
I am sure it will all be ok.
If you can bare to watch the video of the shod foot at the bottom of this page it might help
http://www.rockfoot.com/why.html


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## Amymay (12 November 2013)

LauraJay said:



			He's booked in for next Monday. Im just praying he has a "lame day" and it isn't a wasted trip!
		
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Good luck.


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## dewdrop_roses (17 November 2013)

LauraJay said:



			He's booked in for next Monday. Im just praying he has a "lame day" and it isn't a wasted trip!
		
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I'd be interested to follow your progress, I have very similar concerns for my boy.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (17 November 2013)

hnmisty said:



			The vet did have slight queries on that leg but passed him as suitable for what I wanted to do with him...
		
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.... and what does he say now?


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## hnmisty (18 November 2013)

MrsD123 said:



			.... and what does he say now?
		
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Different vet from the one who vetted him (different area, so different practice) but she has diagnosed mild arthritis in his coffin joint.


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## Heelfirst (19 November 2013)

Scan or x-rays?


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## teasle (19 November 2013)

My horse was intermittantly lame for 2 and a half years. Three thousand pounds of my insurance companies money was spent investigating it, including an mri scan with no cause for the lameness found. He was written off by the vet with a poor prognosis. He has now been sound for the last 6 months.It is like a dream come true, I am just so glad I did not have him put to sleep when things were at their worst.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (19 November 2013)

A happy ending


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## Lucky Lady (20 November 2013)

Laura I would get a second opinion.


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## TaniaMarsden (3 January 2014)

Any heat or swelling? Ihave exactly the same problem with my mare, intermittent lameness, front left. Fine, then after exercise lame, 24/36 hours later ok, then again.... She is barefoot and ridden in Cavello boots??? Very frustrating and not nice to see her unsound! :-(


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## mightymammoth (3 January 2014)

TaniaMarsden said:



			Any heat or swelling? Ihave exactly the same problem with my mare, intermittent lameness, front left. Fine, then after exercise lame, 24/36 hours later ok, then again.... She is barefoot and ridden in Cavello boots??? Very frustrating and not nice to see her unsound! :-(
		
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have you had nerve blocks? then at least you can narrow it down a bit. Mine blocked to the hoof so I knew that was the area. Or could it be an abscess? come take weeks to burst.


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## TaniaMarsden (3 January 2014)

Hi,
No nerve block - YET!
She did however have an abscess about 8 wks ago, poulticed it cleared up but did leave small hole in her hoof, makes me wonder if maybe still there and travelled to the coronet band??



victoria1980x said:



			have you had nerve blocks? then at least you can narrow it down a bit. Mine blocked to the hoof so I knew that was the area. Or could it be an abscess? come take weeks to burst.
		
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## mightymammoth (3 January 2014)

or it could well be reinfected or not totally cleared as yet. I had a couple of reinfected ones last year when I didn't keep the exit "hole" clean for long enough after I thought it had cleared.


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## Dobermonkey (3 January 2014)

Heelfirst said:



			Just wanted to comment on your case as I have been working on a very similar lameness today:
You say the horse is ok when belting around the field but different when it comes to school work.
My thinking is that the horse will come up sound with a caudal nerve block, if this is the case then the problem can be explained, understood and if in the early stages, treated.
It is very encouraging that there is a stage at which the horse appears sound, as this is the place to start.
Too many times I am referred horses that are periodically lame and the vet/farrier have started with the lameness, not with when the horse is sound! 
I am sure it will all be ok.
If you can bare to watch the video of the shod foot at the bottom of this page it might help
http://www.rockfoot.com/why.html

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Watched the vid. Fascinating!


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## TaniaMarsden (3 January 2014)

Hi,
How were you able to tell reinfected? Did you have her hoof tested? Thanks!


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## mightymammoth (3 January 2014)

TaniaMarsden said:



			Hi,
How were you able to tell reinfected? Did you have her hoof tested? Thanks!
		
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Hi, he just wasn't right slight on off lameness then one day was three legged lame. It was in the same hoof that had abscessed a few weeks before. If I were you I would get a farrier or someone with the testers asap to thoroughly go over the whole hoof.


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## TaniaMarsden (3 January 2014)

Thank you, so helpful and I will, just sent text to farrier. Please keep your fingers crossed for us!! x





victoria1980x said:



			Hi, he just wasn't right slight on off lameness then one day was three legged lame. It was in the same hoof that had abscessed a few weeks before. If I were you I would get a farrier or someone with the testers asap to thoroughly go over the whole hoof.
		
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## mightymammoth (3 January 2014)

TaniaMarsden said:



			Thank you, so helpful and I will, just sent text to farrier. Please keep your fingers crossed for us!! x
		
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let us know what happens if you remeber


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## TaniaMarsden (3 January 2014)

will do x


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## LauraJay (13 February 2014)

Right. We went to the vets on Monday. He blocked at the foot on the left, then straight after went lame on the right. Vet said he was 3/10ths on left and 1-2/10ths on right. He blocked at the foot on the right too. After various xrays, the vet noted changes in the coffin joint believed to be arthritis. He stayed in overnight to have joint blocks on Tuesday to ensure this was he case. After the initial joint blocks into coffin joint Tuesday morning he went for more xrays. This time rather than just lateral and head on views, he also took xrays from "above" the hoof. These revealed changes in the navicular bone. Vet's prognosis was that it is either arthritis, navicular, a bit of both or foot imbalance is causing stress in both areas.  The course of action to try corrective shoeing. I have already spoken to my farrier he is coming Friday to fit aluminium bar shoes with wedges. If no improvement in 2-3 weeks hes going to have steroids injected into the coffin joint to try and address that. If the lameness continues after this, then he will go back in to have the nerve blocks to confirm navicular. He could have done this this week but would have meant my boy stopping in another night and transport was already on the way. I hope this is helpful to others in similar situations. Does anybody have any advice?


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## LauraJay (13 February 2014)

He's also had six months off before he went to the vets.


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## Meowy Catkin (13 February 2014)

Be aware that wedges can further contract and damage the caudal hoof - not what you want with a navicular diagnosis. You could not pay me enough to have them fitted to any of my horses. To put it crudely, if you had sore feet, would you want to wear high heels all the time?

Look on this blog and search for 'wedges' http://rockleyfarm.blogspot.co.uk/ especially a horse called Dillon. ETA and a horse called Dylon.

Remedial shoeing doesn't have as good a prognosis as a proper BF rehab with Navicular (just turning away with no shoes on, is not the same thing), why many Vets haven't caught onto this just perplexes me.


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## ester (13 February 2014)

My lad had coffin joint DJD and reverse rotated pedal bones. 

to start had egg bar shoeing and steroid injections into the joint. It didn't work and after a few months I took his shoes off and didn't look back. 

I personally wouldn't put wedges on mine - and my vet was pretty anti too and would only use them very short term. 

Changes in the navicular bone do appear to be reversible and not always the cause of lameness when horses get MRI scanned. If I were you I would consider taking his shoes off/familiarise myself with the rockley farm blog before making any decisions and if you do go the shoeing route there isn't anything to say that you can't change your mind . It would be interesting to see any hoof pics if you have some.


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## LauraJay (13 February 2014)

Yeah we discussed that. He said that the more you bump the heel up the more it will break down. My farrier has the xrays I will ask him to forward them to me. The first thing I asked about was going barefoot but vet didn't recommend. He said the most important thing was to sort out his hoof-pastern axis and preserve his heel. It confused me a little.


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## Meowy Catkin (13 February 2014)

It's hard to go against Veterinary advice, but on this issue, many Vets have not caught up with the latest thinking. In the end he is your horse, you need to evaluate all your options and decide what is the right thing for you and your horse. You are the one that needs to be able to sleep at night with the decision as you will be the one seeing the horse every day. The Vet, or myself (who have different opinions on the best way forward) wont lose sleep because of what you decide. 

I ended up getting four, yes four Vets out to see my mare when she had hoof problems (the first three were happy with her hooves, I wasn't and didn't understand that they couldn't see the issue) and got a new Farrier. So Vet four and the new Farrier was the team my mare needed to solve her issue (which was real BTW).


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## ester (13 February 2014)

I'd agree re vet probably need to change axis and preserve the heel - but I don't think that wedges will do the latter! - and that changing the axis more gradually might not be a bad thing either. Does your vet have any experience of barefoot? Mine seemed to have no strong feelings either way although wanted to shoe first - when I pointed out that hadn't worked and he didn't have any other options he agreed no harm in trying . He had sent a couple of horses to rockley previously.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (13 February 2014)

Yes, problems, horses, more problems.
My thinking is that what you need is long term management of the situation, and from general reading,  on here,  and particularly the Rockley horses, I would be very reluctant to have special shoes long term. In my own experience they just don't work.
Also would be absolutely clear with vet and farrier that no sudden severe changes to hoof angles will be made.
I am not clear how any horse will be able to "re-model" or strengthen its own feet when we know that by shoeing we are taking over the role of the hoof in this respect.
I know I am being pretty wooly over "my opinion" but I don't have lots of hands on experience of all these problems, and obviously you are taking professional advice which is pretty much compelling. Good luck with this, but also consider contacting Nic at Rockley if you feel you need someone to talk through things. She has a lot of experience, and seems willing to help.
A lot of different things are done to help horses these days, whereas years ago there were few options.
Don't forget diet, as you want the hoof to grow strongly
minerals / hi fibre / lo sugar / linseed


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## mightymammoth (13 February 2014)

Also went down the egg bar route was a nightmare to manage. He was pulling one every 10 days ish eventually farrier had nothing to hammer to that coupled with a run of abscesses. It was awful. I know that eggbars work for some but I just cant see how a circle of metal can support his body better than the ground. Why don't you join phoenix barefoot forum and ask on there. Or pm heelfirst who will hopefully give you some general pointers.

Eta I noticed its wedges not eggbars. Agree re sorting his diet so he can grow good strong hooves (his diet may be fine already ?) Also echo contacting rockley farm. Nic is brilliant.


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## Sheep (13 February 2014)

Sounds like a very similar diagnosis to my boy.
In summary, intermittent lameness over a couple of months, went to vets in mid October, DJD in coffin joint diagnosed, some changes to navicular, also arthritis in hocks and mild kissing spines. 
Joints were medicated, vet spoke to farrier who shod with wedges, horse came sound and when green light was given to re-start work we did, managed to hack out maybe six times and schooled very gently (ie walk, probably equivalent of one circuit of the school in trot) twice. 
He went lame again in mid January. He is really struggling with the muddy fields at present so currently stabled with turnout in sandschool for a max of about 1hr a day.. on a daily dose of danilon to keep him comfortable.
Farrier is due tomorrow for other horse, so I am going to pull his shoes, he is lame in them anyway so I begrudge paying £60 for something that isn't helping him. As long as he is comfortable enough to be turned out once weather improves then he will be an oversized pet. Any potential benefit to him as a result of being unshod would be a serious bonus.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (13 February 2014)

You just need to look on Rockley to see how far things can go:  "Dillon with Wedges" arrived on stilts!


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## mightymammoth (13 February 2014)

Sheep have you thought of trying turmeric? Supposed to be very good


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## Sheep (13 February 2014)

I may do, I've tried quite a few other things so that can't hurt!


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## mightymammoth (13 February 2014)

Yes be worth a go. Think you need to add oil ie micronised linseed oil and a bit of black pepper


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## LauraJay (14 February 2014)

My cousin swears by turmeric. Feeds it to her horse with sarcoids. Think he has two tablespoons a day in his feed as Victoria says, with pepper and oil.


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## toomanyhorses26 (14 February 2014)

Please please please as one of the Dylan owners on the Rockley blog don't go down the wedge route - I did and believed my vets and did and pretty much came very very close to wrecking my horse and mine weren't particulary big either. Mine has been barefoot with thanks to some incredible help from Nic at Rockley for nearly 5 months now and he feels incredible - doing over an hours roadwork 3 times a week plus a couple of shorter sessions in the school - we haven't reached canter yet as he had over a year off and was incredibly weak in his body so we have been building it up very slowly. If you want a chat please PM me


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## Exploding Chestnuts (14 February 2014)

I hope Nic does not mind me posting:
Dillon with wedges
http://rockleyfarm.blogspot.co.uk/search?q=+dillon
Dylan
http://rockleyfarm.blogspot.co.uk/search?q=+dylan


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## Sheep (14 February 2014)

Mine is getting his shoes off today all being well, I am taking the approach that he is now retired until at least the summer, can do a wee bit of work in hand in the meantime, and we will see how he gets on. He was shod with wedges but they haven't really made a difference. If he is unsound with shoes then he may as well be unsound without. He is on a daily danilon at present which has really taken the edge off and he is in great form now.


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## LauraJay (16 April 2014)

It was navicular.


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## Sheep (16 April 2014)

Sorry to hear that - how is he OP? It isn't the end of the world - there are options available to you if you are able to explore them. x


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## Meowy Catkin (16 April 2014)

What Sheep says is true. Many horses are returning to full work after a navicular diagnosis, so please don't feel it's the end of the world. Did you read any of the Rockley blog mentioned earlier in this thread? If not, go and have a read.


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## LauraJay (17 April 2014)

He's had a treatment called tildren. This hasn't helped at all. My vet has stated that his x-rays were very bad. I had a look at the Rockley blog, as I said it's hard to go against the advice of my vet and farrier but I am considering it as nothing else has worked yet and I am broke now . Vets said the only other thing the could do is operate and take away the feeling but I'm not willing to do that.


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## ester (17 April 2014)

I would get yourself round the internet and gather as much information as you can about navicular and barefoot horses, it is possible to transition them at home with minimal financial outlay (compared to other treatments). I'd also suggest you get a good trimmer on board if your farrier isn't (someone used to doing rehab cases) 

There is also this forum which is friendly and helpful 

phoenixhorse.myfastforum.org

and I have a copy of feet first that was written by nic barker that I am happy to send if you would like to read it.


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## Tiffany (17 April 2014)

(QUOTE=LauraJay;12411868]It was navicular.[/QUOTE]

Only just seen your post and did wonder if it could be navicular because same symptoms as my girl 3 years ago. With a change of routine, a good farrier and keeping her weight down she's been fine. Navicular is manageable with help from your vet, farrier or BF trimmer and a routine where they are kept moving as much as possible. 

My girl went lame earlier this year but after lameness investigation and nerve blocking the pain isn't due to the navicular but from a serious injury to her suspensory branches and OA in her fetlock


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## LauraJay (17 April 2014)

Thanks everyone. The lady I share with is barefoot so I'm going to speak to her podiatrist and see if he has any experience with navicular. He isn't been ridden at the moment so hopefully shouldn't make too much difference to him as he's just chilling in the field. I just want him to be comfortable as all he does is mope about at the minute. His field pal gallops to the gate when I arrive but he just ambles along behind - isn't nice to see.


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## ester (17 April 2014)

It is also possible to boot for turnout if needed to start with, particularly as the ground is harder now.


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## Miszeemare (17 April 2014)

I feel for you OP, I'm going through something similar ATM only mine has been diagnosed with quite severe arthritis and she's not even 12 yet.  Started in October last year being about 2/10ths lame, vet came, two weeks box rest and bute, appeared to help, vet gave ok to start gentle hacking and then she had a bout of colic a week later.  Farrier wasn't happy with her, she was very uncomfortable being shod so ask vet if ok to get a Physio out.  Physio came out, didn't want to treat as lame but did some work on her back as had lots of muscle spasms and it did relieve her (obviously compensating a lot).  She went to the hospital for full lameness work up, bi laterally lame in both hinds at the hocks, both hocks injected with steroids and tildren given.  Two weeks paddock rest and the gentle hacking, vet comes back out, still lame in nr hind so reinjects it.  Another two weeks rest etc. 

Then she has a bout of laminitis (fortunately caught in time), she's on full livery, I was away for weekend, she was wormed and I had had her on a joint supplement (which I now know glucosamine might have also been a trigger).  Got vet to come out and check her, been on box rest to get her off the grass and she was now 5/10ths lame in the hind.  Back to the hospital for more X-rays etc, she now has a bone spur on her hock.  Got my farrier to pull her back shoes after the laminitis as she was lame with them on and we both thought she might find her own balance/grow the hoof to suit her.  She has very good feet as already on a barefoot diet due to her type.  Vet wasn't too happy but then agreed she wasn't at all footsore and I didn't need to put them back on Fortunately my farrier is quite old school as was taught that shoes were a necessary evil and if we could do without then so much the better.

It's been nearly a month now, no more signs of laminitis (X-rays showed no changes), taken her off the joint supplement and changed her balancer to one with more magnesium, pro and pre bio tics etc, managing to get her on some turnout but am constricted by livery yard, aiming for 24/7 turnout soon as she is better being kept moving.  She will have to come in in winter but for now she is more sound.  Am going to go on a small hack for the the first time today depending on how she is,  I am very slight so no weight for her and I feel she is better when kept moving and she has to be in this pm due to sugars in the grass ATM.  She also seems more comfortable without the back shoes on - how can nailing shoes on be any good for her?

My farrier thinks the vets have created a toxic horse with her with all the hock injections, nerve blocks, tildren, me giving her a joint supplement, lack of exercise (I was hacking 4/5 times a week).  Vet now wants to do a bone scan, inject the top hock joint and has also suggested surgery on the hock - we are talking about a happy hacking  cobby cart pony here, not the next Valegro.  Not sure I want to do any of this (insurance runs out in six months) and feel I should have gone with my gut when she colicked 6 months ago ie taken off her shoes and turned her away for the winter.  I feel I have failed her to a certain degree.  For all the vets have pumped into her, nothing has worked.

Apologies, that turned into a bit of a ramble 

I wish you all the luck in the world - I'm hoping time and patience will help me (not sure how long I can give it as husband is paying £500 per month to keep a pony I haven't been able to ride properly for six months and may not be able to for the foreseeable).


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## Tiffany (17 April 2014)

Another horse on our yard with navicular had tildren and it didn't seem to work initially but she improved after about 4 weeks. I know the horse was just shod on the front after box rest but wouldn't go forward, she's now shod all round and is moving much better.

I don't think there is a fix all which suits every horse but there are options and you seem to be exploring them all so hopefully you'll find something that helps him even if it takes a little while.


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## LauraJay (17 April 2014)

It's been three weeks since he had the tildren. He was initially shod on all four but I've had the backs taken off - £175 every 5 weeks is alot for a student with a part time job! It's just hard knowing what is best for him right now because everybody has something different to say.


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## LauraJay (17 April 2014)

I've also spent all my insurance money now so surgery etc. is a definite no no.


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## Meowy Catkin (17 April 2014)

Really you've got nothing to lose and everything to gain by trying a BF rehab.


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## Sheep (17 April 2014)

Faracat said:



			Really you've got nothing to lose and everything to gain by trying a BF rehab.
		
Click to expand...

This.

I totally understand where you are coming from re: going against advice of farrier and vet. I was advised by a number of posters on here (including ester above who has very kindly offered you the Nic Barker book  ) to try the unshod approach; my horse has a slightly different issue but ultimately the treatment is very similar to the navicular approach, ie medicate joint and shoe with wedges. Mine seemed sound at first (he was treated in Oct) but went lame again in January. 

The vet and farrier thought I was nuts when I initially suggested taking shoes off - my farrier came round to the idea when I put it to him in the context that he is lame regardless, so he may as well be lame without the expense of shoes as he would be the same in shoes anyway. 

Anywho the shoes eventually came off almost 3 weeks ago, and so far he is doing very well indeed. I haven't ridden him yet - that won't come for a wee while yet, as I need to build him up slowly due to other issues - but he is striding out confidently across various surfaces and when I tentatively trotted him up on a circle a few days ago he looked the soundest he has in probably 8 months. 

I can't predict the course of how he will do over the coming months but I am cautiously optimistic that he will return to work. How much work I do not know, but I am hoping he will be able to hack and possibly do some light work in the school.

I am not on a yard with any fancy facilities, though we have year round turnout, on both hilly and flat fields, some nice smooth concrete areas and some gravelly areas, the sandschool and easy access to a fairly smooth tarmac road. It isn't perfect but it isn't a bad compromise, and I make an effort to do something with him across a variety of surfaces a couple of times a week. He knows what he can and cannot cope with so I let him show me to an extent what he's comfortable with. It seems to be working for us so far.


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## ester (17 April 2014)

It is worth saying that those on here that suggest it are only doing so because they now have sound horses where they previously had lame ones (and yup we only had a field and the roads really - did make a small gravel area but shouldn't have bothered in hindsight!) - going from lame to hoping for a bit of light hacking to a veteran you can take out hunting/dressaging/basically enjoying yourselves can make you quite keen on taking shoes off


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## avthechav (17 April 2014)

My horse has very slight intermittent lameness every few months and eventually MRI scan showed up inflammation of the nav bone itself and very early signs of wear to the ddft. The consultant prescribed Tildren and told me to keep shoes on but having read as much as possible I decided to barefoot rehab...( luckily my normal vet is very supportive) the winter has been hard and we have had a couple of abscesses and annoying niggles and I am now starting work again so a watch this space! But I would definately research barefoot rehab and have a look on the phoenix barefoot forum.  

Good luck!


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## Meowy Catkin (17 April 2014)

ester said:



			It is worth saying that those on here that suggest it are only doing so because they now have sound horses where they previously had lame ones
		
Click to expand...

This is true. I was very lucky though, my mare was comfortable on concrete, tarmac, in the sand school and the field straight away. She got better with stones as time went on.


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