# Dangerous Youngster



## mt2015 (10 July 2015)

Hi everyone, Back in January my parents purchased me a new horse, as I outgrew my old one. He's a 16hh just turned 5yro Scottish Sports Horse, I got him as I do showjumping, and I was hoping we could progress up together. All was fine for the first couple of months, he was being schooled by me and I was bringing him along nicely. But all of a sudden he started misbehaving and its escalated very quickly and got to the point where he won't stand to be mounted and as soon as u get on him he won't move, he will stop dead spin and rear. Or he will take of and buck uncontrollably. My dad wants to give him back to the "dealers" and swap him for another one, but I'm determined to overcome this problem we've hit. As soon as you put a bit in his mouth and put his bridle on, he pulls his head to the ground, then in the air with his mouth open and when ur riding him he will shake his head about all over the place and contiounsly pull the reins out of ur hands, and take control. I don't think he's doing this out of badness, something tells me he could be in pain, he's had his teeth checked and he got a few pulled out so I'm not sure what else this could be, as he was fine to start with.


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## Zero00000 (10 July 2015)

Sounds to me like this horse is screaming 'I am in pain'
Get the vet out to do a full work up on him, and then look at your tack, back etc.


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## 9tails (10 July 2015)

How long ago were the teeth removed?  Does his bridle fit properly, is the bit the right size?  Have you had a saddler to check his saddle fit?  I don't think he's a lost cause but you do need to make further investigations rather than try to work through it.


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## mt2015 (10 July 2015)

9tails said:



			How long ago were the teeth removed?  Does his bridle fit properly, is the bit the right size?  Have you had a saddler to check his saddle fit?  I don't think he's a lost cause but you do need to make further investigations rather than try to work through it.
		
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His teeth were removed at least a month ago, and his bridle is horse sized :/ we know his saddle is not perfect but the vet said it will be fine until he fills out as when we got him he was very! underweight (hence the reason we also got him) and so he has a riser under his saddle the now. we are trying lots of different bits atm, as his first one was far to big, but he now has a full check snaffle bit. But we are thinking about trying a nathe mouthpiece as we think he may have a sensitive mouth, because it's as soon as the bit goes in he's throwing he's head about all over the place.


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## gnubee (10 July 2015)

Have you tried long reining in saddle and bridle? If he is ok with that it points to a back issue. If not then teeth is more likely. If you think it is a bitting issue, I would try a bitless bridle. On the long reins at first to make sure you have enough brakes, and then riding just in walk til you get to grips with it. If it's from a dealer I presume you only have a limited time to return, and I would talk to the dealer now to let him know the investigations you want to perform and get confiation that he is still happy to take the horse back if they don't work out.


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## mt2015 (10 July 2015)

No I haven't tried that, but i have tried lunging him and he's absaloutly fine on the lunge, except he still does his head throwing and pulling. He is a lovely horse in all other ways, except riding, I was on him last night and he walked round and round fine (except from throwing his head) he stopped dead a couple of times and was going to go up but I encouraged him to go forward and he eventually gave up.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (10 July 2015)

It is not likely you can return a horse six months after you bought him.

A full veterinary work up may be required, but it seems likely that this is related to dental work, this is not regular dental work, removing teeth is quite extreme. Discuss this with a senior vet and ask him to explain the various problems and issues that you are having. The bridle must fit properly and the saddle and the girth and the bit. I wil be honest, the easiest part of this is to find a bit that is the correct size, if you struggled with this you need professional assistance asap.

Once a good equine vet has visited and is happy that there are no pain issues, find a good BHSII instructor, ask her to visit and look at the horse. It is pretty evident that the horse is in discomfort or pain and if you persevere with random "cures" you will be likely to end up with a dangerous horse and someone getting hurt. You are not experienced enough to deal with this and I urge you to find someone to help you, not just a random person though.

Where are you based, someone may know how to help you.


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## rachk89 (11 July 2015)

Would definitely get a vet and a saddle fitter for that saddle. I know someone who bought a horse like yours and he started going nuts after a while. She became terrified of him and I was worried for her safety. But after many attempts to get a saddle she finally got one that although it took 4 hours it was fitted to both him and her. All the problems went away and he is like a donkey in a warmbloods body now. Definitely get a vet then saddle fitter. It could just be that simple.


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## stormox (11 July 2015)

Often when horses get to around 5 years (a lot of people say the 'fearsome 5s'!)they begin messing around slightly, and if they are allowed to do whatever slight unwanted behaviour they are doing, it can escalate into real naughtiness. Or maybe he remembers when his teeth hurt, before the dentist took them out, and hasnt yet realised they arent going to hurt any more.
I think you need to get an experienced person to watch you tack up and ride, and let them tack up and sit up on your horse. See what their opinion is. The dealer may part-exchange your horse, but it mightn't be for a better one......


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## Goldenstar (11 July 2015)

The horse has a few teeth pulled out !!!!?
Do you mean wolf teeth removed ?
apart from wolf teeth it's no easy matter to get teeth out of a five year olds mouth .
What exactly was done to the horse and by whom .
I would be prepared to bet your is in pain .


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## mt2015 (11 July 2015)

Goldenstar said:



			The horse has a few teeth pulled out !!!!?
Do you mean wolf teeth removed ?
apart from wolf teeth it's no easy matter to get teeth out of a five year olds mouth .
What exactly was done to the horse and by whom .
I would be prepared to bet your is in pain .
		
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yes sorry wolf teeth, im not really sure how to use this properly yet and things keep deleting and I have no idea where they have gone! thank you everyone for your help, we are getting a full work up done on him, he has the saddle fitter coming out. it wasn't a dealer as such he and from but he breeds and buys and sells horses, very nice people that said if we had any problems they were willing to take him back. But again thankyou everyone for your help&#9786;&#65039;xx


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## wkiwi (12 July 2015)

stormox said:



			Often when horses get to around 5 years (a lot of people say the 'fearsome 5s'!)they begin messing around slightly, and if they are allowed to do whatever slight unwanted behaviour they are doing, it can escalate into real naughtiness. Or maybe he remembers when his teeth hurt, before the dentist took them out, and hasnt yet realised they arent going to hurt any more.
I think you need to get an experienced person to watch you tack up and ride, and let them tack up and sit up on your horse. See what their opinion is. The dealer may part-exchange your horse, but it mightn't be for a better one......
		
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Agree with this, although it can happen at any age: I would rule out pain first, then get help. It sounds like the dealer would help you further, so maybe they could ride the horse for a bit (after ruling out pain) and see if it is something you are doing differently to them. With some horses, it doesn't have to be much to cause a reaction and then it can trigger the circle of rider tensing-horse tensing-rider tensing more-horse tensing more- etc.
Fixing the issue (pain or rider communication) and getting some help for you and theh horse to overcome the bad memories should restore your horse to what it was.


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## Dave the dog (12 July 2015)

Had similar problems with mine, check teeth tack back and feet do some ground work to help him move his feet and make friends again, have someone else ride to see if the same discomfort is there, also, if there are loads of people around him he will get very stressed.


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## Dave the dog (19 July 2015)

Here's a trick slacken his nose band right off four finger or more slack. and dump the flash if there is one. Pressure on the nasal nerve ganglia will make him toss his head about and is very painful might take a day or two to have an effect. good luck


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## FFAQ (20 July 2015)

Any news?


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## sport horse (20 July 2015)

I think you should get an experienced trainer to help you - they will assess the situation and be able to help you decide whether it is a young horse 'testing' the ground or  whether there is something more amiss and you need to spend the money on a veterinary work up. I would advise you not to do too much more on your own as it does make it more difficult to sort it all out. Good luck I hope you come through the problems and have great fun with your new horse.


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## Sukistokes2 (25 July 2015)

I remember reading this and thinking that sounds like pain? Any news from the work up?


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