# AI technicians: Bad training = Bad reputation



## AndyPandy (1 June 2007)

Just a quick start to a new thread:

I have met and talked to many newly qualified AI technicians. I am constantly amazed by these technicians lack of knowledge/understanding of the technology which they are qualified to use.

I am very concerned that DEFRA do not police the training system, and many (if not all) of those places that offer training are doing so purely for the money.

I have met AI technicians who do not understand about assessing sperm, how to clean a mare, how to collect from a stallion, how to use semen extenders... it is quite terrifying that these people are allowed to inseminate mares.

This is starting to reflect badly on artificial insemination, and related technologies. We must do something to prevent this hurried and inadequate training giving AI a bad name!

What can we do? And do you agree?


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## Amymay (1 June 2007)

Who are you Andypandy and what do you do for a living?

You are very, very knowledgeable by the sounds of it.......


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## AndyPandy (1 June 2007)

I'm not very knowledgeable, but I am trying to learn. I certainly don't intend to come across as a know-it-all... (although I realise that it may seem that way) - I just want to learn from what others have experienced etc. and see what others think.

My primary field of work is as a researcher. I have a small lab in the South West, and I also work with the University of Oxford researching markers of fertility and future directions of reproductive technologies such as ICSI and IVF. I did an AI technicians course a while ago, in order to allow me to further my research, and was stunned when I heard that everyone had passed. There were several people on the course who were clueless, and yet they were still passed by the DEFRA examiner.

I think there is so much potential for horse breeders in this country if only we can make the most of reproductive technologies.... I am just fearful that everyone trying to do it without adequate training will cause problems.


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## Amymay (1 June 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
I certainly don't intend to come across as a know-it-all  

[/ QUOTE ] 
No you don't at all - you just make intelligent debate.  It's great


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## Maesfen (1 June 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
I did an AI technicians course a while ago, in order to allow me to further my research, and was stunned when I heard that everyone had passed. There were several people on the course who were clueless, and yet they were still passed by the DEFRA examiner.

I think there is so much potential for horse breeders in this country if only we can make the most of reproductive technologies.... I am just fearful that everyone trying to do it without adequate training will cause problems. 

[/ QUOTE ]

I second Amy in what she said too; it's been interesting!

Well, we all know what Defra is like!  Wouldn't it have been better for them to be examined by a panel of experienced AI vets instead - I know it's nothing to do with you but as you say, breeders deserve the highest standards possible; the course would not have been cheap to do, so paying for better qualified examiners would surely have made the course better informed/trained and would have sorted the wheat from the chaff?  After all, just what qualifications did the man from Defra have to make him/her perfect for the job?


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## AndyPandy (1 June 2007)

In this case, the examiner is an experienced stud vet, but he gets paid to mark a multiple choice exam paper.

I honestly believe that lay people, with adequate training, can be the most wonderful reproductive technologists, but without adequate training there is no point. 

I think that newly qualified AI technicians should be "on probation" and only allowed to become fully qualified AI tech's after completing a set number of supervised inseminations (with a vet) and only after acheiving a conception rate of AT LEAST 40%, preferably closer to 80%. A multiple choice exam, and a stud vet watching you "inseminate" a mare with extender once, SHOULD NOT be enough to allow you then to go out and inseminate any mares. It's just plain foolish!

I also believe that breeders should be able to get an exemption through extensive training (as is possible with cattle), to enable them to ultrasound mares rectally. Surely a dedicated breeding technician would be more effective than a vet who is not well practised in stud work, a vet (of any level) combined with a poorly trained technician, a an AI technician guessing their way through it, alone!?


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## sallyf (1 June 2007)

I am a qualified AI technician and i found the course i did very helpful.
You do have to pass a practical exam as well as a written one.
This practical includes all the preparation and handling of the semen (for insemination and shipping ) preparation of the mare for insemination and the actual procedure.
There is a differance with what you are trained and what people might choose to do.
I have seen vets be a lot less clinical than we are.
I also made sure that the first two mares i did where my own and the vet was there and happy with what i was doing.
I consequntly ended up with two foals born the first week in feb.
To be perfectly honest it aint difficult anyway and most of it is just normal practice (well it is to us anyway).
As for percentages i would be mortified if we didnt get over 80% fertility including the semen that is shipped out chilled to outside mares with unknown people inseminating.
We have always done our own collections and have been AI'ing mares for 15yrs so i probably had more insight than some .
Ive also been lucky enough to work with some very good stud vets like John Newcombe .
Please dont be down on all technicians there are plenty of good ones out there.


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## AndyPandy (1 June 2007)

I would certainly agree that there are a number of extremely skilled AI technicians who do the job well. My fear is over the sheer number now being qualified willy nilly. I have seen an increase in the number of failures to acheive pregnancy with AI in stallions that I have worked with. We have had 100% success rate previously, but now several new AI tech's have used his semen, and have been unsuccessful. We have used a dose from the same ejaculate, extended and chilled in exactly the same way, and yet we acheive pregnancy and the AI tech we send it to does not. Our assessments of his semen show that the sperm has not changed, and neither has our success rate. This leads me to believe that there are more and more AI techs out there who are doing something, or everything, wrong.


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## vicijp (1 June 2007)

Do the AI techs do the scanning? Surely that is the key?
Cant see it being rocket science otehrwise, but maybe I am missing something.


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## sallyf (1 June 2007)

Vici i agree with you it more likely to do with the scanning or the mares than the inseminator.
lets face it it is not difficult.
We sent out a second ejaculate today to a vet we deal with often and is normally spot on but he was wrong this time and in the end the mare started to ovulate this morning so perfect timing.
But she was first inseminated on wed.
Luckily for us he goes back and scans for ovulation and fluid which many dont so how do you know for certain the mare has cooperated.
They can make fools of even the most experienced.


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## sallyf (1 June 2007)

Dont know who marked the paper bit of the exam will have to look but Johnathon Pycock did my practical exam someone i have a great deal of respect for.
He doesnt suffer fools gladly


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## AndyPandy (1 June 2007)

Vici, you're right that it's not rocket science. I think the more stallions that the technician has to deal with the better... and whilst actually inseminating a mare is very simple, the treatment and handling of semen is not.

I regularly hear of people wanting to extend semen in tap water (big no no, you need an extender made up with distilled water), pre-warming chilled semen that has arrived before inseminating, sending semen withOUT extending it, and making extremely basic errors in assessing semen, like not understanding the difference between motility (the percentage of sperm cells which are moving) and concentration (the number of sperm cells in each millilitre of semen). These are just a few of the things I have been asked about/been told about by new AI technicians who have qualified.

Also, there are basic things that should be done before breeding, that techs should know about and don't do. We've recently had some people with a 14 year old maiden mare - she has not been checked by a vet properly and was only scanned once (with a 20mm follicle), and after that is was just guesswork! Surprise surprise, the mare didn't take. But the mare has had no reproductive soundness examinations done (cytology, biopsy/endometrial grading etc).

I think it should take more than a two-three day course, and a scraped pass to be an AI technician, and it shouldn't just be about the inseminating.


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## sallyf (1 June 2007)

All i can say is that these people did a differant course to me then because that was covered.
There was a fairly thick folder that i got which i occasionally refer back to which goes into pretty good detail of the idoits guide to collection ,processing and insemination.
The rest has got to be down to the vet sorry.
We have sent out regularly to some of the very well known insemination centres and not one of them that i know of warm semen before inseminating.
Warming to check it but not inseminating as how can that be done if doing it at home like so many people including ourseleves have done in the past. 
Vets have got to have the biggest imput to success


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## AndyPandy (1 June 2007)

The thing is, none of the things in that middle paragraph I wrote should be done - they're all wrong. Somewhere, something is going wrong... I also know of a couple of experienced breeders who are having to go and "fix" mistakes people have made after completing their AI courses, and effectively re-train them in some aspects.

I'm certainly not saying that all training centres do a bad job, but some of them must be cutting corners to pass people who make all of these hideous errors, and don't seem to have a clue about AI and related practises.

We need more keen and conscientious AI techs like Sally to improve the reputation of AI, as I get the impression that many people seem to think that it is ineffective.


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## GreedyGuts (4 June 2007)

As far as I can see the major role for AI techs is working on studs to collect and process semen, and inseminating mares on large studs with sufficient veterinary input. 

I don't think there is much of a role for them doing inseminations in the field, and I can't really see when this would be preferable to getting a vet to carry out the entire procedure.

It is only by being imersed to this extent that you get good at this type of work. The course provides a basis, but experience is the most important thing. AI techs should be required to keep a log book and complete a minimum number of inseminations in a season to remain on the register. 

I totally disagree that technicians should be allowed to rectal mares. Rectal examination of mares is very different to that of cows and the risks are much higher. It is unfortunate that this creates such limitations to what AI techs can do, but I don't think that changing this rule is the way forward.


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## trelawnyhorses1 (11 June 2007)

SALLYF can i jus ask where you did your course to?? i was going to go on a course at the bigging of the season but decided i would rather have another year of stud work under my belt first so i understood the course better.


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## sallyf (11 June 2007)

Graffex when i did my course Twemlows were the only people that did the training.
I found them very good and enjoyed the course.
The only thing i will say is read the folder they send you thoroughly before you go as it will give you a better understanding . 
Otherwise it is a lot to take in and very fast moving.
I was lucky as had a fair amount of experience having owned our own boys for a number of years and done AI on our own mares before that.
PS where are you based we are in Devon PM me if you would prefer.


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## Fahrenheit (13 June 2007)

I think AndyPandy has raised a very good issues and an excellent debate, I did my AI Technicians course last Spring and I have enjoyed inseminating mares since but I don't do the stallion side of things myself, I took the decision before the course that with my dodgy shoulder and bad back (and now a dodgy wrist) that I would still take my stallions to an AI Centre for their collections (if you've seen my stallions on the dummy mare you'd understand that decision!), my vet does all the scanning, he tells me which day to inseminate on, its all very simple from my point of view.  I am a little dubious about sending semen out to people sometimes because you don't know who is inseminating it, one of my cheaper stallions was unavailable 2 years ago, they had to have the semen on Wednesday, they should have rung on Tuesday to tell us this but they rang Wednesday morning, now I had every right not to ship to them because they didn't tell us the mare was in season and they didn't inform us they needed it by are pre agreeed deadline, but to be helpful I ran round like a fruit loop arranged a same day delivery and sent them semen from my most expensive stallion (stud fee over twice the price) for the same as the cheaper stallions stud fee.
What annoyed me the most was she rang me saturday to say the mare didn't ovulate til saturday morning, they had kept it in the fridge and the vet put it in friday night.....Grrrrrrr! Firstly this supposed vet, who I believe was probably a AI Tech because please no vet can be that dense as to keep semen in the fridge in the house for 48hours after being shipped already and expect it to achieve a pregnancy, and why in the (swear word) did they make all the fuss about getting it Wednesday and why in the (swear word) didn't they inject the mare to make her ovulate before! Little Rant Over!

On the otherside of things, I use one of the most respected reproduction vets in the country at mine and even things go wrong very very occassionally for him, we had semen being sent in from a stallion up north and because I was buying the semen from an outside stallion I decided to put my mare in at my vets because he has everything required to hand, anyway they ovuplanted the mare put the first delivery of semen in and she didn't ovulate, so they order a second lot and ovuplanted her again, that came they put it in and she didn't ovulate, so the follicle receeded and a new one popped up, he ovuplanted her again and we now needed a third lot of semen that week and on a sunday so I had to drive to North Yorks and pick it up, eventually got it back for midnight and my vet inseminated her and thank the lord she ovulated and I have a beautiful bouncing baby coloured colt this year (my first coloured! I love coloureds but don't breed for colour I only used this stallion because I would have used him if he was bay, brown or purple, I liked him that much!)


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## MissIndependance (27 June 2007)

My other half did the course at Twemlows this year and has successfully inseminated nearly all of our mares this year - most of them on their first cycle so he's definitely got that side sussed.

However in the next couple of years when we start collecting our own semen from our boys then I will go and do the course as I think by then he will have forgotten it all, not having put it into practise for 2 years.

If you don't reguarly do something I guess you are bound to forget bits


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