# Libby A69X - killed



## AngelaWB (6 July 2011)

Libby, the horse missing on loan reported elsewhere on this thread - has today been found to have been taken to a slaughter yard in Cheshire and killed.

Her distraught owners are being encouraged by friends and helpers to take matters further and to seek justice for Libby, a lovely old 25 year old mare.

The person/s responsible for her demise should be ashamed of themselves, I know I am ashamed that fellow humans can act in such a manner.

I would plead with anyone thinking of putting a horse on loan to think very carefully about it and do indepth research.  Start with reading the Missing Horses on Loan website; ask potential loanees for proof of identity - ask for household bills to prove their address, contact their vets - please do not pu your horses life on the line.


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## quirky (6 July 2011)

How very sad for Libby's owners .


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## joy (6 July 2011)

The person responsible for this is a base, cowardly sh%t.  Just give me 5 minutes with them.


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## stencilface (6 July 2011)

That just doesn't bear thinking about 

They definitely should ahve a serious think about legal action, although I can see how that would be traumatic for them


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## cally6008 (6 July 2011)

There has been no confirmation of this happening from MHOL


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## ILuvCowparsely (6 July 2011)

b4rstards   i hope they trace who did this and make them pay hard  

 poor Libby  RIP hunny :
 feel so bad for the owners  

  I wanna know as she was freezemarked how she wasnt found sooner

  takes the pi$$ out of having them done if they can do this horrid thing with one on


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## Dolcé (6 July 2011)

I am so sorry for her owners, they must be distraught, BUT in a way at least she is not being abused and suffering somewhere.  Whilst I realise it means they can never get her back, and her end may not have been the one they would have chosen for her, she is safe from further harm and at least they know.  It has to better than those who spend years and years wondering what the hell has happened to their precious horses.  I hope this comes across in the spirit it is written. I hope they find the person who did this and that they feel the full force of the law - this is the only way these people will be stopped.  It just needs one judge, with the guts to set an example, for it to become too risky to carry out these crimes.


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## MurphysMinder (7 July 2011)

So sad to read this, though I do understand what you are saying hch4971. Presumably the loaner had her passport which is why the abbattoir accepted her, as far as I am aware they have a very good name so wouldn't be involved in anything dodgy.


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## Tinseltoes (7 July 2011)

Very sad. Has this been concerned?????


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## MHOL (7 July 2011)

MurphysMinder said:



			So sad to read this, though I do understand what you are saying hch4971. Presumably the loaner had her passport which is why the abbattoir accepted her, as far as I am aware they have a very good name so wouldn't be involved in anything dodgy.
		
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I cannot comment at the moment but this is why if you put your horse on loan, tell the passport office it is on loan, associate yourself on NED Online and you can flag the horse is on loan, join NECD and flag the horse is on loan, tell your freeze mark company and microchip company. Keep your receipt for your horse, this is proof of ownership not a passport, get a loan agreement drawn up by a solicitor.

Libbys owner did nothing wrong, they tried to see their horse, someone else took it upon themselves to decide Libbys fate. My heart goes out to her very distraught owners, i cannot even find the words to say how i feel about this at the moment. The whole reason MHOL was set up was because of two horses in very similar circumstances, it sickens me that this has happened again and we will help anyone with a missing horse.

If you keep getting refused to visit your horse, delays, loanee has lost a baby, her father, husband been ill etc then alarm bells are going off, delays are the common denominator in almost every case it comes down to the fact there are delaying tactics for you to visit, the longer it goes on the last chance we have to find your horse. DONT BE PUT OFF BY DELAYS, either passive or aggressive


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## AngelaWB (7 July 2011)

MHOL are being an absolute tower of strength to the owners and are doing a wonderful and admirable job.  The owners are obviously blaming themselves, though they have NOTHING to blame themselves for, I can only imagine what they are going through and the sleepless night they must have had last night.  They sent me some photos of Libby last night, a beautiful beautiful mare.

This situation has opened my eyes.  I'm a horse owner of over 30 years but do not compete, don't get involved in 'the horsey world', I'm a happy hacker/owner.  Therefore I didn't realise that things like this were happening so would ask how many other people are ignorant of this type of thing?

I believe we owe it to horses everywhere to support people like MHOL and to help spread the word, educate your friends, if you go to riding schools/pony club/riding clubs etc ask them to read MHOL and other websites advising on the precautions to take when loaning out a horse or buying a horse, ask them to share this knowledge with others.  

I never met Libby, nor have I met her owners - but this whole situation has upset me so much, I don't want her death to be in vain.


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## Tinseltoes (7 July 2011)

Maybe we could all add the MHOL link on our facebook pages?????


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## AngelaWB (7 July 2011)

Yes I did that last night, I will also be adding them onto my business webpage too.
  In North Wales I'm involved with OWL (Online Watch) with NW Police, they too have been very supportive and will be spreading the word regarding the dangers of loaning.


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## Tinseltoes (7 July 2011)

AngelaWB said:



			Yes I did that last night, I will also be adding them onto my business webpage too.
  In North Wales I'm involved with OWL (Online Watch) with NW Police, they too have been very supportive and will be spreading the word regarding the dangers of loaning.
		
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South Wales here. I will add the link on my FB page later. Very scary thing loaning horses these days.Id never do it again. Both mine will stay here where I can see them. (actually one is a pony ive loaned until payed for and shes a field ornament and company for my cobby.


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## AngelaWB (7 July 2011)

Thanks for that.  If we all, as horse owners, share the responsibility of educating horse owners, it can only serve to help protect our equine friends.

I most certainly will be pointing people in the direction of MHOL so that they can learn of the dire events that are taking place right under our noses.

There are too many horses 'missing' and too many owners going through a living hell.


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## hayley123horses (7 July 2011)

What an awful story it beggars belief that so called horse lovers could do that - I suppose I have just answered Myself there - they are not horse lovers.

Its sad but true facty of life that documentation is so important and that a proper contract is a must nit just listing the basics but also an inventory of tack

Very sad and distressing for the owners I hope you take them to court, if not I know it is wrong but I hope someone meets them in a dark alley.


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## pintoarabian (7 July 2011)

Firstly, sincere condolences to the distraught owners. Sadly, this is not an isolated incident and some unscrupulous people prey on the trusting in order to make monetary gain. They have no consciences and are governed solely by greed. I know of a case where someone advertised for a companion horse or pony to keep a pregnant mare company. The only truth was that there was a pregnant mare. 7 trusting owners handed over their horses and ponies to this woman and all went to slaughter. None of the horses or ponies were mine but I did rescue the pregnant mare and was involved in helping the police bring about a prosecution. Until that time, I admit to being naive and could never have believed humanity could stoop so low. Since then, I have heard of several similar cases. Please take every precaution when considering a loan home. All may not be as it seems and some people can be very plausible. The same woman advertised a pony for sale saying that her granddaughter was terminally ill with leukaemia. Several fell for the sob story which was a lie and paid deposits for the pony which was to be delivered so that the woman could check out the new home. Needless to say the pony never was delivered and all the deposits were pocketed. Despicable!


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## Tinseltoes (7 July 2011)

I have previously put a pony out on loan,but my friend knew the people and they loved him to bits and eventually bought him with a condition that if no longer required I get 1st refusal (got it in writing and signed) they kept him for life and bought another when they retired him.A home for life,thankgoodness.They were lovely people and let me visit him too. Sadly not all loan homes are good. I think it should be law that EVERY equine (young and old) are freezemarked and microchipped),but sadly it didnt work for poor Libby RIP babes.
Feel for the owners I ready do.


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## Flummoxed (7 July 2011)

I am absolutely gobsmacked at this thread. Don't know what to say..............


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## Tinseltoes (7 July 2011)

pintoarabian said:



			Firstly, sincere condolences to the distraught owners. Sadly, this is not an isolated incident and some unscrupulous people prey on the trusting in order to make monetary gain. They have no consciences and are governed solely by greed. I know of a case where someone advertised for a companion horse or pony to keep a pregnant mare company. The only truth was that there was a pregnant mare. 7 trusting owners handed over their horses and ponies to this woman and all went to slaughter. None of the horses or ponies were mine but I did rescue the pregnant mare and was involved in helping the police bring about a prosecution. Until that time, I admit to being naive and could never have believed humanity could stoop so low. Since then, I have heard of several similar cases. Please take every precaution when considering a loan home. All may not be as it seems and some people can be very plausible. The same woman advertised a pony for sale saying that her granddaughter was terminally ill with leukaemia. Several fell for the sob story which was a lie and paid deposits for the pony which was to be delivered so that the woman could check out the new home. Needless to say the pony never was delivered and all the deposits were pocketed. Despicable!
		
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Wow.I would never put a horse or pony on loan these days.Very scary.


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## mon (7 July 2011)

Different but similar our bull is on hire passport sent back to defra for more pages they sent passport to where he is on hire we have nothing apart from trust that he won't be sold.


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## ladyt25 (7 July 2011)

That is disgusting - WHY do people do this, is it solely for the little bit of cash they will get?

Should the slaughterhouses ask for more proof of ownership/ID of those sending the horse to slaughter? Is it just too easy for anyone to take any horse to a slaughter house? I am not necessarily putting blame on the slaughterhouses - maybe the money given for a horse should be a heck of a lot less though?

I really feel for the owners, what an horrific thing to find out.


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## Rollin (7 July 2011)

The Uk should adopt the French system.  The ownership papers are separate to the passport and are retained by the lawful owner at all times.  You cannot sell a horse without this paper.


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## Tinseltoes (7 July 2011)

Rollin said:



			The Uk should adopt the French system.  The ownership papers are separate to the passport and are retained by the lawful owner at all times.  You cannot sell a horse without this paper.
		
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Hmmm thats a oood idea. Also they should ask for proof of ownership and proof of microchip numbers/freezemark proof as well,by producing original documentation.Everyone should make sure it says on the passport
 CANNOT GO FOR MEAT.


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## Tormenta (7 July 2011)

Is there no way an abattoir can check freezemarks listed as stolen/missing on loan etc before they actually slaughter a horse? Anyone could take a horse for slaughter with a passport? Very sad for the owners, my heart goes out to them and may the perpetrator rot in hell.


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## Tinseltoes (7 July 2011)

You would think that the slaughterhouse would check for stolen/loan horses and make sure that the person who bought the animal in,is ACTUALLY the owner. Something has to be done about this.Sue the slaughterhouse maybe? Certainly string up the culprit who sold poor Libby.
Poor horse and I feel for the owners.
Cant someone do something to STOP this from going on and happening again????????


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## Cuffey (7 July 2011)

I dont know the story but guess
Loanee had passport --not signed out of meat chain and loanee has taken horse to abattoir before owner has realised and flagged up that horse is missing.

It is very hard to get the message out there to people to connect with their horses on Nedonline and make a note that the horse is on loan and cannot be sold without owners permission

As Rollin says we need the Haras system whereby a horse cannot be sold without the separate ownership document.  The passport just enabling the horse to be identified for vet treatment/competitions/travel etc.


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## mon (7 July 2011)

Just a thought that sheep have to have microchip in ear tag as they are for human consumption so can't implant chip, but horses are implanted and still some go in food chain, wouldn't be allowed in cattle or sheep, condolences to all.


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## Dolcé (7 July 2011)

sharon1959 said:



			Hmmm thats a oood idea. Also they should ask for proof of ownership and proof of microchip numbers/freezemark proof as well,by producing original documentation.Everyone should make sure it says on the passport
 CANNOT GO FOR MEAT.
		
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You don't get the choice of it going for meat or not in the passport, just whether or not it is for human consumption ie abbatoir, as opposed to knackers yard.


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## AngelaWB (8 July 2011)

Until I became involved in this search for Libby I was ignorant of this type of thing happening.  I had never heard of NED.  I've owned horses for over 30 years, the two I have now were purchased in 93 and 2000, they are pets - I don't take much interest in competitions etc or the general 'horsey world'. 

This has been an education for me - but it could have been so different.  I found Libby's advert on preloved whilst looking through 'horses for loan', toying with the idea of putting my cob on loan.  Now of course, I will never do this.

Surely there must be a better way of alerting people to the existence of NED, of the Loan situation etc - I'm sure I'm not the only 'horsey person' who lives in their own little world.

Maybe we need to start giving the equine world a voice and demand that rules are tightened up before horses can be slaughtered.


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## SpruceRI (8 July 2011)

This is not a new occurence..... some 24yrs ago I shared a horse with someone.  Eventually the share ceased and the horse returned to its owner where she advertised it for loan.  Along came some people who gave a wonderful story, about the home the horse would have.

The owners even went along to see the yard.  All was approved and off the mare went.

After a few weeks of not being able to contact the new loaners, they went to the yard they'd viewed and no one there had ever heard of said people.  They and the mare had disappeared off the face of the earth it seemed.

Bumping into the original owner several years later she said that she'd eventually tracked down the whereabouts of the loaners and found them to be dealers who regularly got horses 'on loan' and then sold them for meat.  (


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## blobby (8 July 2011)

Many thanks for all your good wishes and support...I am Libby's owner and ,as you all must know, we are totally devastated by what has happened to our lovely pony. We loaned her in good faith with a signed loan agreement , visited her and also paid towards a vets bill while she was with the loanee. I admit I trusted the lady and thought she , like us, had Libby's best interests at heart. She was never signed over to the lady but nevertheless was given away in breach of the loan agreement and subsequently we discovered she died in February in an abattoir in Cheshire.  This followed weeks of asking for contact details of her new loanee that only met with constant  dead ends and with hindsight I realise that I should have begun the search sooner. 
We have received a great deal of support and help from lots of people and I am determined not to let this terrible situation rest- I can't do anymore to help Libby now and I will always feel immensely guilty about letting her go at all. I am going to take it further and am just waiting to find all the pieces of the jigsaw to fit together about her last days. 
If you are thinking of loaning your horse please, please notify the passport office / NED of this before you do- I did not and regret it now. However, can I just add that Libby was terribly unlucky in finding this loan home- I also loan out my daughter's 11'2 to a lovely genuine family who love him dearly and have helped in our search for Libby proving that most horsey people are caring and honest. Many thanks again for all the support- I will let you know the outcome.


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## Tinseltoes (8 July 2011)

blobby said:



			Many thanks for all your good wishes and support...I am Libby's owner and ,as you all must know, we are totally devastated by what has happened to our lovely pony. We loaned her in good faith with a signed loan agreement , visited her and also paid towards a vets bill while she was with the loanee. I admit I trusted the lady and thought she , like us, had Libby's best interests at heart. She was never signed over to the lady but nevertheless was given away in breach of the loan agreement and subsequently we discovered she died in February in an abattoir in Cheshire.  This followed weeks of asking for contact details of her new loanee that only met with constant  dead ends and with hindsight I realise that I should have begun the search sooner. 
We have received a great deal of support and help from lots of people and I am determined not to let this terrible situation rest- I can't do anymore to help Libby now and I will always feel immensely guilty about letting her go at all. I am going to take it further and am just waiting to find all the pieces of the jigsaw to fit together about her last days. 
If you are thinking of loaning your horse please, please notify the passport office / NED of this before you do- I did not and regret it now. However, can I just add that Libby was terribly unlucky in finding this loan home- I also loan out my daughter's 11'2 to a lovely genuine family who love him dearly and have helped in our search for Libby proving that most horsey people are caring and honest. Many thanks again for all the support- I will let you know the outcome.
		
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Im really sorry for your loss of libby.Its not your fault she died,you wernt to know the loanee was EVIL. RIP Libby babes.
If you want to chat your welcome to pm me anytime. I hope you take this evil  person to court and she gets what coming to her.
I really feel for you.


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## AngelaWB (8 July 2011)

And hopefully a successful prosecution will mean that the persons name becomes public - hopefully this persons friends/relatives/neighbours etc will be as disgusted as we are.  My blood boils.


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## MHOL (8 July 2011)

We are with you all the way, so sorry it wasn't a happy ending.xx


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## blobby (8 July 2011)

I would like to say a heart felt thank you to all the people at MHOL who have worked so hard to help us find Libby and would urge anyone thinking of loaning out a horse to read their website first. We really do appreciate your support.


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## HappyHorses:) (8 July 2011)

My heart goes out to you 

You did nothing wrong. I hope the scum will be named and shamed to prevent this happening again.

RIP Libby.


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## Oldenburg (9 July 2011)

blobby said:



			Many thanks for all your good wishes and support...I am Libby's owner and ,as you all must know, we are totally devastated by what has happened to our lovely pony. We loaned her in good faith with a signed loan agreement , visited her and also paid towards a vets bill while she was with the loanee. I admit I trusted the lady and thought she , like us, had Libby's best interests at heart. She was never signed over to the lady but nevertheless was given away in breach of the loan agreement and subsequently we discovered she died in February in an abattoir in Cheshire.  This followed weeks of asking for contact details of her new loanee that only met with constant  dead ends and with hindsight I realise that I should have begun the search sooner. 
We have received a great deal of support and help from lots of people and I am determined not to let this terrible situation rest- I can't do anymore to help Libby now and I will always feel immensely guilty about letting her go at all. I am going to take it further and am just waiting to find all the pieces of the jigsaw to fit together about her last days. 
If you are thinking of loaning your horse please, please notify the passport office / NED of this before you do- I did not and regret it now. However, can I just add that Libby was terribly unlucky in finding this loan home- I also loan out my daughter's 11'2 to a lovely genuine family who love him dearly and have helped in our search for Libby proving that most horsey people are caring and honest. Many thanks again for all the support- I will let you know the outcome.
		
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I would just like to say how sorry i am!! 
Humans fail me sometimes!!


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## GingerCat (15 July 2011)

Did the loaner give any reason for her/his actions?


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## blobby (16 July 2011)

Hi, thanks for the message..when I spoke to the loaner she said she had given the pony away to a lady called Rachel in Chester with no address or valid telephone number because she did not think the loan agreement counted for anything and that Libby was hers to do as she wished. This revelation came after many texts and calls asking for a contact number for Rachel because we always assumed that she had loaned her out and would have another agreement with an address etc on it. We found this unbelievable as we had kept in touch with the loaner and paid towards a vets bill in December (written into loan agreement ) because we always wanted to make sure that she could be treated for any illnesses etc while out on loan. I really cant work out what happened and why and since we found out about Libby's end we have had no contact from the loaner at all. regards.


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## MHOL (16 July 2011)

We haven't had any contact with her either despite when we told her the passport was registered as deceased she showed "concern" and asked to be kept in touch, she obviously never thought we would trace her, the police will deal with her now, i do hope she is ashamed but i very much doubt it, call herself a horse lover, would love to do a rouges gallery of who you shouldn't let near your horses, i think i will find out the legal implications for our website if they have been convicted.


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## s4sugar (17 July 2011)

Surely Turners know who the cheque was sent to? They will have to tell a police investigation.

Have you considered the Rachel person may not exist and the loaner on your contract sent poor Libby to slaughter?


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## pixi (17 July 2011)

s4sugar said:



			Surely Turners know who the cheque was sent to? They will have to tell a police investigation.

Have you considered the Rachel person may not exist and the loaner on your contract sent poor Libby to slaughter?
		
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think you got the nail on the head there from what field sharers said but shes kept her own coloured cob just libby n her kids pony holly dissapeared the same weekend .


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## Pale Rider (17 July 2011)

I don't know whether I'm missing something here, but loaning a horse, doesn't give the person who loans it the right to sell the horse for whatever reason.

As far as the criminal law goes, it's the same as loaning someone a car and they scrap it. It's theft, pure and simple.

If someone comes up with a tale to get a horse on loan, then sells it, once again it is theft, by deception.

Any half decent investigation would be able to get enough evidence to put before a court, particularly if the thief has done it a number of times.


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## lourhys (17 July 2011)

this is so upsetting. Sorry to her owner x


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## Cuffey (17 July 2011)

PaleRider
Wish all Police forces did consider this selling on loan plain and simple theft, MHOL would have lots more time on her hands.
Unfortunately most Police forces choose to say take out civil action.
There have been exceptions of course where the Police have tried hard to help particularly once a horse is located.


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## MHOL (17 July 2011)

Cuffey said:



			PaleRider
Wish all Police forces did consider this selling on loan plain and simple theft, MHOL would have lots more time on her hands.
Unfortunately most Police forces choose to say take out civil action.
There have been exceptions of course where the Police have tried hard to help particularly once a horse is located.
		
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So true but especially once the horse is located bit, the police haven't got time to look for stolen horses, thats why there is horse watch and missing on loan and tracing equines, we need the public to give us information or spot a new horse or even one thats been around a while. Some police officers go out of their way and it usually fails with CPS because its not in the publics interest to take them to court, so they get away with it, some "people" we have dealt with are serial offenders and they got away with it, makes by blood boil.


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## Luci07 (18 July 2011)

What would the legal position be if you DID create a seperate rogues gallery? So I know you couldn't do it on H&H, it would be taken off immediately, but when I thought about it - if you have proof, then they can't sue for libel/slander because you do have evidence? or am I being a little Daily Mailish on this? i.e making sweeping statements with little to support it?! 

 I would understand you could only post the ones who perhaps are serial/nearly got to court etc. I would also understand if it was felt to be putting MHOL in actual danger but just a thought - or maybe a FB page.. with links?


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## Pale Rider (18 July 2011)

Cuffey said:



			PaleRider
Wish all Police forces did consider this selling on loan plain and simple theft, MHOL would have lots more time on her hands.
Unfortunately most Police forces choose to say take out civil action.
There have been exceptions of course where the Police have tried hard to help particularly once a horse is located.
		
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I deal with Police Forces a lot and have done since the 1970's, things have changed a lot. Not wanting to be too critical of the Police, but now you have to almost prove to them that an offence has taken place, and this 'Oh it's a civil matter' is really a way of avoiding getting involved.


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## blobby (21 July 2011)

As Libby's owners I spoke to the Telford police on Tuesday but to be honest they were not much help. Basically they said 1. because the loan agreement was not drawn up by a solicitor it was not really worth the paper it was written on and only constituted a verbal agreement (it was a BHS template) and 2. because I had given permission for Libby to be moved by the loanee to a friends field that I had given carte blanche to move her on.  They did not seem bothered that Libby was NEVER  given to the loanee in the first place and was always our property, not hers to give away ! They said they would do some digging but to be honest, I dont hold out much hope there. I feel so frustrated because surely they can see that something is amiss after trying to trace "Rachel" and being given several phone numbers that were false. Surely they can contact the abattoir and use their powers to find out the people that took Libby there? Also, after being killed on Feb 7th I have still not had her passport returned or any notification from Farmkey about the matter- if we had not found out the tragic news from NED then I would have still thought she was happily grazing in a field somewhere ! Something is wrong with the system somewhere.


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## AngelaWB (22 July 2011)

Keep going on at them Mandy, make a complaint if they don't take it seriously.

All - NORTH WALES POLICE very SUCCESSFULLY prosecuted a person who sold a horse on loan to an abattoir - if they can do it, surely other forces can too.

Why should this scum get away with what she did to Libby?


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## Leah3horses (22 July 2011)

Just a few years ago you hardly ever heard these horror stories of horses missing/stolen/slaughtered on loan...maybe because having horses was a lot less 'fashionable' then, and maybe people kept to their word and had some kind of moral code. In most areas I'd say years ago things weren't reported as much but still went on, ie child abuse etc...but it really does seem that peoples' beloved horses, who they are trying to do the best for in placing them in a loan home, and giving people the pleasure of their precious horse who may not be able to afford to buy one...are at risk now, and seen as 'fair game' by a lot of unscrupulous, immoral people...weather 'horse' people or not..

Really feel for Libbys' owner, who was doing a nice thing for that person, who they trusted...and trying to do the best thing for Libby, who was obviously very much loved by her real family. R.I.P Libby. In your memory, I will now never trust anybody like I have done.. Your sad end will hopefully make owners remember what happened to you when they consider a loan home, what a sad reflection when good people have to change their natures and be so suspicious


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