# Some rapes are worse than other?



## 1stclassalan (18 May 2011)

Our Minister of Justice is in hot water again - Ken Clarke is rarely far from contraversy.

He has made a rash statement that some rapes are worse than others. I post this here as I have the feeling that girls outnumber the blokes many times to one here and this is a very big issue.

He has been forced to retract or modify his first words - I ask - is this fair?

He was after all talking in terms of the legal definition - not the personal experience of a woman. 

For instance if a boy and girl get together before their sixteenth birthday - the boy automatically commits statutary rape even if the girl was fully consenting. 

But the same charge will levelled at a violent burgular with his desires fixed on old ladies in the middle of the night in their own homes.

To me this clearly demonstrates the some rapes ARE worse than others and it's the law that needs sorting out not the Justice Minister - discuss.


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## quirky (18 May 2011)

Would this (and your other thread) maybe be better in Soap Box? That's where the sort of current affairs threads tend to get discussed.


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## 1stclassalan (18 May 2011)

quirky said:



			Would this (and your other thread) maybe be better in Soap Box? That's where the sort of current affairs threads tend to get discussed.
		
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I don't think so because they're not particular pots I wish to bash - they are merely items from the latest news - just like it says on the tin.


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## quirky (18 May 2011)

Fair enough , doubt you'll get much response ..... though I may be wrong .


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## perfect11s (18 May 2011)

1stclassalan said:



			Our Minister of Justice is in hot water again - Ken Clarke is rarely far from contraversy.

He has made a rash statement that some rapes are worse than others. I post this here as I have the feeling that girls outnumber the blokes many times to one here and this is a very big issue.

He has been forced to retract or modify his first words - I ask - is this fair?

He was after all talking in terms of the legal definition - not the personal experience of a woman. 

For instance if a boy and girl get together before their sixteenth birthday - the boy automatically commits statutary rape even if the girl was fully consenting. 

But the same charge will levelled at a violent burgular with his desires fixed on old ladies in the middle of the night in their own homes.

To me this clearly demonstrates the some rapes ARE worse than others and it's the law that needs sorting out not the Justice Minister - discuss.
		
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 I wish he would bugger off and join the labour party where his wooly minded tripe would fit right in, oh and take Cameron, goldsmith, may and gummer with him


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## ThePinkPony (18 May 2011)

I am actually with you and have just discussed this with oh.

Not all rape is brutal and traumatic. i understand what he was trying to get across, he just did it very badly.


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## Sarah Sum1 (18 May 2011)

Having gone through this myself. I would consider what I went through to be at the higher end scale of trauma, well the top  The example you gave of consenting 15yrs old is not even close to a violent forced rape. So I agree. But depends what else he said tbh.


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## ThePinkPony (18 May 2011)

It is a very valid point.

A friend of ours was accused of rape.

 he slept with a girl fully consenting not knowing she was 15 (they met in an over 18s club) and to be fair she looks the same age as me so easily done. 
Her parents were pushing for the charge, when really they should have concentrated on raising their daughter to not be such a little ho. It was dropped but very scary for him.


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## Trolt (18 May 2011)

We were talking about this earlier (a bunch of 20yr old girls).

Fortunately none of us have ever had to go through a rape, and I cannot imagine how horrible it must be for the victem.

We all believe that there are different degrees of rape and there should be different levels of charge. As listen in the OP, a burglar raping old women is very different (imo) to say an 18yr old lad sleeping with his 15yr old girlfriend which are both considered the same severity. 

The scenario that came up the most in discussion was if a man and a women were getting drunk in a club, went back to his in a taxi, the women consentingly and just before having sex, or perhaps during the act the women suddenly tells the man to stop, and he doesn't.  We were trying to decide if that was the same level of rape and as horrible for the "victim" as say a women jogging who gets grabbed and raped in an alleyway. In our eyes these were different levels of severity... but I think that it is relatively easy to generalise about if you've never been the victim.


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## JanetGeorge (18 May 2011)

perfect11s said:



			I wish he would bugger off and join the labour party where his wooly minded tripe would fit right in, oh and take Cameron, goldsmith, may and gummer with him 

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What a silly comment.  Ken Clarke is FAR too intelligent - and committed - to be a Labour Party politician.  He is a man with high ideals - and the Conservative Party NEED him.  He's not a sheep - like so many of the younger MPs - he says what he thinks and believes - and in this instance he's right!

There are VERY different degrees of rape - and they should be judged on the individual circumstances.  Date rape - for example - isn't 'right' or 'good' - but in many cases it's a girl saying no at the VERY last moment (or afterwards!)  Stranger rape - often with assault and violence - is a very different crime!


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## HashRouge (18 May 2011)

JanetGeorge said:



			There are VERY different degrees of rape - and they should be judged on the individual circumstances
		
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I 100% agree with this and I don't understand how anyone could argue otherwise? Rape cases can involve all sorts of different factors and the levels of violence and aggression involved can vary hugely. Some rape victims end up dead or with horrific injuries. I think that says a lot about whether some rapes are worse than others. Rape is a despicable crime full stop. But not every case is the same!


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## Weezy (18 May 2011)

I completely agree with his words - there are different degrees of rape.  I have first hand knowledge of what would be a low level rape - we were going out, I was tipsy, we made out, I fell asleep, I woke up and he was doing it and before I could realise what was happening it was done - there was no violence, I just didn't say yes - yes it was traumatising once I had realised what had happened, but because I didn't stop him he thought it was OK.  

How anyone can say that that is as bad as being held down with a knife to your throat, fighting tooth and nail and being forced is beyond belief!


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## Sleighfarer (18 May 2011)

Sarah sum1 said:



			Having gone through this myself. I would consider what I went through to be at the higher end scale of trauma, well the top  The example you gave of consenting 15yrs old is not even close to a violent forced rape. So I agree. But depends what else he said tbh.
		
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I'm sorry to hear that, Sarah. 
Xxx


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## Sleighfarer (18 May 2011)

ThePinkPony said:



			It is a very valid point.

A friend of ours was accused of rape.

 he slept with a girl fully consenting not knowing she was 15 (they met in an over 18s club) and to be fair she looks the same age as me so easily done. 
Her parents were pushing for the charge, when really they should have concentrated on raising their daughter to not be such a little ho. It was dropped but very scary for him.
		
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This is rather surprising. Did she say she had been raped? The usual charge would be unlawful sexual intercourse.


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## quirky (18 May 2011)

Ooh, I answered the thread in SB thinking it was this one .

I will say it again, Kenneth Clarke is infinitely more qualified than most, as a QC to comment on sentencing terms and I happen to agree with him in what he says.

As an aside, he is a top bloke who is an asset to the Conservatives and would make a great PM imo .


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## 1stclassalan (19 May 2011)

Seafarer said:



			This is rather surprising. Did she say she had been raped? The usual charge would be unlawful sexual intercourse.
		
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The main problem there would be - the police decide the CHARGE - the LAW merely provides the framework - the police nearly always choose the most serious sounding crime regardless of the facts because it looks good in their targets.

Don't forget that Britain is going the way of America in this respect where folk are now charged with "male rape" to complicate matters even further. Old lawyers would have scratched their heads in puzzlement because in days of old one had to be possessed of female anatomy to even entertain the idea of rape.

On the crime itself - though I appreciate vunerable even as a bloke I cannot begin to imagine what some posters here have gone through - and always a worry, I am the father of two daughters.


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## MerrySherryRider (19 May 2011)

Can't understand why KC is getting flack over this. Seems common sense that rapes vary in severity and trauma.


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## doonrocket (19 May 2011)

Horrible demonstration of the power of the press. He clearly states that all rapes are serious, but the hysterical reporte jumped on a comment, trying to sensationalise the interview. 
Mr Clark is trying to do something about conviction rates. Whatever you think about date rape, you are more likely to be aquitted of a date rape, the victim is more often than not made to give evidence, with the issue being consent. In court you have to prove the case beyond all reasonable doubt, and this point is the one that sees the offender walking - no criminal record, no punishment and the victim feeling like no one believes them.

One day in jail and a conviction for some kind of sexual offence has got to be better than this. At the momant the CPS have little to negotiate with a defence, preventing early guilty plea.

Another example of irresponsible jouernalism.


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## BBH (19 May 2011)

I heard his interview this morning on the news and I thought nothing bad was said. He was just explaining how rape is dealt with in law.

This is just a typical media storm. A politician can't open their mouth these without their words bring twisted, exaggerated and vilified.
( often with good reasons but not in this case )

I hate politics but to me this media frenzy is ridiculous.


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## Amymay (19 May 2011)

horserider said:



			Can't understand why KC is getting flack over this. Seems common sense that rapes vary in severity and trauma.
		
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I completely agree.


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## Maesfen (19 May 2011)

horserider said:



			Can't understand why KC is getting flack over this. Seems common sense that rapes vary in severity and trauma.
		
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Totally agree.

I noticed it was the women reporters that seemed the most 'vicious' on the news last night.


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## TallyHo123 (19 May 2011)

I sort of agree with what he was saying, but think he said it badly. 
There are cases, which people have already mentioned, where a boy has met a girl (Under 16) at a club or wherver and had no idea she was underage etc.


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## ThePinkPony (19 May 2011)

I noticed that last night. The female reporter was getting really worked up and i thought the things she was saying were purely idiotic. in the end i literally had to turn over.


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## Spotsrock (19 May 2011)

I know a little more than some people about this topic if you know what I mean, while I am not happy about a potential 50% reduction for admitting before trial, does something similar not happen anyway???

I completely agree with what KC said, obviously these incidents vary in trauma and violence. A girl who is too drunk to make a decision about a 1 night stand can claim rape these days but IMO is less likely to be as traumatised as a sober person who is grabbed in the street and assaulted with violence. 

KC always says it as he sees it and is usually not far off the mark, the press needs to back off and take the underlying message not take the words out of context to make news on a slow day. Find a cute fluffy puppy story to finish on if it's a slow day.


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## Giles (19 May 2011)

Spotsrock said:



			I know a little more than some people about this topic if you know what I mean, while I am not happy about a potential 50% reduction for admitting before trial, does something similar not happen anyway???

I completely agree with what KC said, obviously these incidents vary in trauma and violence. A girl who is too drunk to make a decision about a 1 night stand can claim rape these days but IMO is less likely to be as traumatised as a sober person who is grabbed in the street and assaulted with violence. 

KC always says it as he sees it and is usually not far off the mark, the press needs to back off and take the underlying message not take the words out of context to make news on a slow day. Find a cute fluffy puppy story to finish on if it's a slow day.
		
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it does - it is 33% at the moment - for all crimes not just rape.


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## Sleighfarer (19 May 2011)

1stclassalan said:



			Don't forget that Britain is going the way of America in this respect where folk are now charged with "male rape" to complicate matters even further. Old lawyers would have scratched their heads in puzzlement because in days of old one had to be possessed of female anatomy to even entertain the idea of rape.
		
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Are you suggesting that men can't be raped? In what sense does it complicate matters  If a man rapes another man then surely he should be arrested and charged?


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## Ranyhyn (19 May 2011)

amymay said:



			I completely agree.
		
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Baaaaa


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## MissMincePie&Brandy (19 May 2011)

I also agree some are worse than others. To me it's common sense isn't it?

Being raped by a drunken partner would not be as horrendous as being dragged into some bushes by a complete stranger and being raped. IMO
Both are truly awful, of course, but psychologically far more damage would be caused by the latter.


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## Saucisson (19 May 2011)

Haven't read all the details but I agree.  There's an awful lot of difference between a bloke who looses control when he's had a few too many and bonks a lass without realising she didn't actually want it (although I'm not sure if many of these sorts of cases would actually make it to court) to a serial violant rapist who mutilates and/or beats up his victims.

I do get a bit suprised by some of the comments about girls being drunk and not "remembering" if they said yes or no.  I'm sure the CPS wouldn't be able to get a case together for that.  As far as I've read, it's extremely difficult to build a rape case and get a conviction.  

Just because a woman is pished, doesn't mean she's asking to be taken advantage of, does the same theory apply to prostitutes?  What happened to the "sisterhood"?


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## ladyt25 (19 May 2011)

Saucisson said:



			Haven't read all the details but I agree.  There's an awful lot of difference between a bloke who looses control when he's had a few too many and bonks a lass without realising she didn't actually want it (although I'm not sure if many of these sorts of cases would actually make it to court) to a serial violant rapist who mutilates and/or beats up his victims.

I do get a bit suprised by some of the comments about girls being drunk and not "remembering" if they said yes or no.  I'm sure the CPS wouldn't be able to get a case together for that.  As far as I've read, it's extremely difficult to build a rape case and get a conviction.  

Just because a woman is pished, doesn't mean she's asking to be taken advantage of, does the same theory apply to prostitutes?  What happened to the "sisterhood"?
		
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I don't think anyone's saying someone drunk is asking to be taken advantage of but there is a definite difference between someone initially 'consenting' when they've had a few too many and then changing their mind as opposed to (as other people have given examples of) someone just out and about minding their own business, being forcibly raped/attacked.

I certainly think what he said was correct - or what he meant by what he was saying at least but it is yet another case of the media twisting everything!


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## Bigginge (19 May 2011)

I am actually a bit sad to read some of the views on this board, everyone is entitled to their opinion but I really thought we had moved on in the last 20 years. Of course, each rape is different and the law identifies mitigitating and aggravating circumstances, like all crimes, but this does not change the seriosuness or impact of a rape to the person it happened to.

Speak to anyone who works with rape victims and actually being raped by a drunken (or non-drunk) partner/friend is equally as horrendous as being attacked by a stranger. The violation of that persons body goes hand in hand with the violation of trust. Destruction of everything you believe to be 'safe'. The impact of this can last for years if not a lifetime. People raped by those they know often suffer more shame and guilt due to attitudes such as I have read here, the belief that they are not entitled to the same amount of sympathy as those attacked by a stranger.

It is human nature I guess to believe that some victims of rape may have brought it on themselves, we don't want to believe that those around us, those we love and trust could be capable of such a crime and if the victim was in some way responsible then we can tell ourselves that rape is something that happens to other people, that by avoiding such behaviours we can avoid being raped. Sadly it can and does happen to anyone and anywhere. The only way to fight it is to change opinions which infer that there is ever a time or place where a woman or man does not have a right to dictate what happens to their own body.

With ref to Ken Clarke, he probably did just make a bit of a bumbling mess of the interview but as justice secretary he really should know better. And let's not forget that statutory rape and the age of consent are there to protect vulnerable young women.


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## Sleighfarer (19 May 2011)

^^^^^^^
Hear, hear.


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## Amymay (19 May 2011)

I am actually a bit sad to read some of the views on this board, everyone is entitled to their opinion but I really thought we had moved on in the last 20 years. Of course, each rape is different and the law identifies mitigitating and aggravating circumstances, like all crimes, but this does not change the seriosuness or impact of a rape to the person it happened to.
		
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I think that a few people on this thread are commenting from personal experience, so their oinions are highly relevant.  

I don't believe that it's a case of not 'having moved on in the last 20 years', more people understanding that some cases simply are more serious than others.


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## Bigginge (19 May 2011)

amymay said:



			I think that a few people on this thread are commenting from personal experience, so their oinions are highly relevant.
		
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Then so is mine


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## Amymay (19 May 2011)

Bigginge said:



			Then so is mine
		
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Of course it is, I don't disagree.


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## ladyt25 (19 May 2011)

I think the problem is though there are many cases where someone has cried rape when in fact it is not the case and that's when problems arise as in some instances the 'victim' is in fact attempting to get revenge or has some similar agenda and often an innocent person can be labelled a rapist as in most cases people will side with the woman/victim (in the majority of cases it is a woman). 

I don't think anyone would dispute rape is traumatic but I think they us a grey area in such cases where the person may have consented at the time but then, in the cold light of day they decide they didn't want to do it and then say they have been raped when it is not actually the case! That must be equally as horrible for the accused.


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## andraste (19 May 2011)

I usually stay out of controversial threads but this time I just can't. I am genuinely astounded by some of the attitudes on this thread.  The idea that 'date rape' is somehow not really a crime is repugnant to me.  Just because you know your rapist it doesn't mean that it's not 'serious'.  Perhaps murder isn't as bad if the victim knew the murderer or it's actually ok to be burgled if it's your neighbours that do it?  

An example for you.  A woman.  Mid twenties.  She had been going out with her boyfriend for a few years.  They both go on a night out - she will be staying at her flat, he will stay with a friend.  She gets drunk, goes home and passes out.  She awakens to find that her very drunk boyfriend has let himself into her flat and is having anal sex with her (the couple had previously chatted about this, more than once, and she was very clear about that not being something she was ever going to be comfortable with).  She struggles and makes it obvious she wants him to stop immediately.  He forces her head into the bedclothes and carries on.  When he finished he staggers out the door and stays with his pal after all.  She is left bleeding and traumatised.

This happened to a friend of mine.  Despite the pleas of her friends she didn't press charges because she was sure that, because they were a couple and both had been drinking, nobody would believe her.  Seems she was right.


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## ThePinkPony (19 May 2011)

Put it this way, My dad had an affair and lo and behold 3 months later my mum is telling everyone how he used to beat her and rape her....

its bull****, pure and simple. and i too know from experience what it is like to go through that-though apparently according to mother that was my fault, obviously, being 7 years old and oh so responsible for whom i was left with) 

The family all expected this, she lives in a fecked up fantasy world of her own. 

BUT if she took it further, whats to say a jury wouldnt believer her-she can be incredibly believeable sometimes. I know 100% mum is lying, but i spent 17 years in that household, i know when her tears arent real, and the fact that she said the first time he did it there was no law against rape within a marriage when in fact the law came in the year i was born, 7 years previously. 

 i can tell when fantasy land is rearing its head. Who is going to believe my dad- a man with ABH and GBH convictions (yeah my parents are FABULOUS, im so proud ) wouldnt go further and rape his wife?

Rape cases should be looked at far more seriously than they are today. .


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## cptrayes (19 May 2011)

andraste said:



			I usually stay out of controversial threads but this time I just can't. I am genuinely astounded by some of the attitudes on this thread.  The idea that 'date rape' is somehow not really a crime is repugnant to me.  Just because you know your rapist it doesn't mean that it's not 'serious'.  Perhaps murder isn't as bad if the victim knew the murderer or it's actually ok to be burgled if it's your neighbours that do it?  

An example for you.  A woman.  Mid twenties.  She had been going out with her boyfriend for a few years.  They both go on a night out - she will be staying at her flat, he will stay with a friend.  She gets drunk, goes home and passes out.  She awakens to find that her very drunk boyfriend has let himself into her flat and is having anal sex with her (the couple had previously chatted about this, more than once, and she was very clear about that not being something she was ever going to be comfortable with).  She struggles and makes it obvious she wants him to stop immediately.  He forces her head into the bedclothes and carries on.  When he finished he staggers out the door and stays with his pal after all.  She is left bleeding and traumatised.

This happened to a friend of mine.  Despite the pleas of her friends she didn't press charges because she was sure that, because they were a couple and both had been drinking, nobody would believe her.  Seems she was right. 

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The trouble is, how is it possible to convict her boyfriend without also convicting, in another case, a perfectly innocent man who has been wrongly accused by a vindictive ex-girlfriend?

Our system of law does require evidence "beyond reasonable doubt", and that is to avoid innocent people being punished, as far as possible. 

How would you change things to get a conviction in your friend's case, with any evidence of violence, or even the act itself, gone by the time she told you, without putting at risk a man with a vindictive woman making claims against him?


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## andraste (19 May 2011)

cptrayes - I completely understand what you are saying and I can't see a solution either.  What shocked and saddened me was not the inefficiencies or difficulties of the legal system but the seemingly prevalent attitude that some rapes are 'obviously' more serious than others and that date or marital rape is a less serious crime.

Even if we were somehow able to wave a magic wand and find a solution to the problem you outline I suspect rape conviction rates would remain relatively low as long as the pernicious and reprehensible belief that some women are 'asking for it' remains.


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## cptrayes (19 May 2011)

andraste said:



			cptrayes - I completely understand what you are saying and I can't see a solution either.  What shocked and saddened me was not the inefficiencies or difficulties of the legal system but the seemingly prevalent attitude that some rapes are 'obviously' more serious than others and that date or marital rape is a less serious crime.

Even if we were somehow able to wave a magic wand and find a solution to the problem you outline I suspect rape conviction rates would remain relatively low as long as the pernicious and reprehensible belief that some women are 'asking for it' remains. 

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But it's not the belief that some women are asking for it that results in low conviction rates. It's the impossibility of knowing whether you are listening to an extremely manipulative and vindictive woman who is a great actress, or a genuine victim. The benefit of the doubt MUST be given to the defendant, we cannot simply lock up every man accused of rape because a woman says so. Some women go to great lengths to lie. There is even a case of a stalker who stole a used condom from her stalkee's rubbish and used it to provide DNA evidence against him.

If there is proof, there is proof, whether some of the jury feel she was "asking for it", or not. These days they will receive very strong guidance from the judge that her dress, intoxication and previous sexual history are not relevant. The problem with conviction rates is that there is rarely enough evidence to safely convict and if we tinker with that then more innocent men will be jailed along with the guilty.

Difficult as it obviously is, it is within the possibilities of a victim to recover. There are many examples of this. It is not within the power of a man wrongly jailed for rape to recover his life ever again. For the rest of his days, after getting out of jail, he will have to report his whereabouts to the police and is going to find it very difficult to work again in any decently paid or professional job  with that on his record.


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## ThePinkPony (19 May 2011)

As a woman, i certainly do believe that there is a minority of women who should expect nothing less by the way they behave. 

Girls who get so blind drunk, wearing next to nothing, wandering off with whoever they grab at kicking out time.

Ive been included in conversations with friends who are like ''err...did i shag him last night..OMG i cant remember hahahah' ... 'OMg i woke up at this house and it was like 20 miles away from home lol, how did i get here lol'' !!!!!! I know of girls who have cried rape because they have a boyfriend and dont want to be seen as cheats. ive had guy mates who have been told this and are gutted to find out their ex is with the guy who supposedly raped them.


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## JanetGeorge (19 May 2011)

andraste said:



			I am genuinely astounded by some of the attitudes on this thread.  The idea that 'date rape' is somehow not really a crime is repugnant to me.  Just because you know your rapist it doesn't mean that it's not 'serious'.
		
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I don't thing anyone has suggested that 'date rape' isn't a crime!  Obviously it is - and a serious crime at that!!  Apart from the actual rape there's the dreadful breach of trust involved.  BUT - date rape often (not always) happens because both parties are drunk, or arguing.  The one may well have led the other on - and possibly says no at the last moment to 'punish' the other.  There are many different scenarios where - while the rape is not excusable - there is SOME mitigation.

But there is very little chance for ANY mitigation in stranger rape - perhaps at knife point - where the victim fears for their very life if they resist.  Or where a young man rapes, terrorises and brutalizes an elderly woman in her own home!

So yes, all rapes are crimes - but there ARE different 'degrees'!


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## Cedars (20 May 2011)

I was raped and left with scar tissue that causes problems. Whilst I certainly wasn't dragged off the street it has caused me great distress throughout my life. 

However, a 'friend' at Uni was also 'raped'. She got drunk with a decent guy that we all knew really well. Got so drunk he carried her home. She then woke up as he was putting her into bed and according to him acted in a manner that suggested she wanted it-including saying things that weren't yes but were indicative of yes-such as 'so are you coming here then' and 'take off that shirt'. He had sex with her-she was partially awake for it but still offering yes type phrases (which by the way she remembers saying). The next morning she woke up, realised what had happened and decided he'd raped her because she was so drunk she didn't know what was happening? And went to the police. 

Poor sod got dragged in by police etc. It didn't get to court but that's a pretty bad reputation to have. 

I'm not suggesting she wasn't hugely upset, but it is easy to forget, due to the emotions of the crime, that false accusations of rape (or true accusations but where the details are sketchy eg underage but consenting) destroy men's lives.


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## brigantia (20 May 2011)

Bigginge said:



			I am actually a bit sad to read some of the views on this board, everyone is entitled to their opinion but I really thought we had moved on in the last 20 years. Of course, each rape is different and the law identifies mitigitating and aggravating circumstances, like all crimes, but this does not change the seriosuness or impact of a rape to the person it happened to.

Speak to anyone who works with rape victims and actually being raped by a drunken (or non-drunk) partner/friend is equally as horrendous as being attacked by a stranger. The violation of that persons body goes hand in hand with the violation of trust. Destruction of everything you believe to be 'safe'. The impact of this can last for years if not a lifetime. People raped by those they know often suffer more shame and guilt due to attitudes such as I have read here, the belief that they are not entitled to the same amount of sympathy as those attacked by a stranger.

It is human nature I guess to believe that some victims of rape may have brought it on themselves, we don't want to believe that those around us, those we love and trust could be capable of such a crime and if the victim was in some way responsible then we can tell ourselves that rape is something that happens to other people, that by avoiding such behaviours we can avoid being raped. Sadly it can and does happen to anyone and anywhere. The only way to fight it is to change opinions which infer that there is ever a time or place where a woman or man does not have a right to dictate what happens to their own body.

With ref to Ken Clarke, he probably did just make a bit of a bumbling mess of the interview but as justice secretary he really should know better. And let's not forget that statutory rape and the age of consent are there to protect vulnerable young women.
		
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Thank you for this. 

I highly doubt that false accusations are as common as some people here are making out. A friend of mine took her rapist to court and had to give evidence--a tremendously emotionally harrowing experience for her. It's no picnic to sit in court and give evidence against a man whose lawyers want to prove that you were somehow asking for it. So I highly doubt a woman would put herself through this experience for no good reason.

I also had a friend who worked in rape crisis counseling and still has nightmares from the stories she heard. 

Re date rape--statistically seen, most women are likely to be raped, assaulted, beaten, or murdered by someone they know, not by a faceless stranger. If your brother-in-law or ex-boyfriend or neighbour rapes you, it's still rape, even if you knew the attacker. Old women and children get raped--it's not just a case of the way you were dressed. 

At the very least, Kenneth Clarke should have chosen his words with greater sensitivity.


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## abaddon_1974 (20 May 2011)

False accusations don't usually get to court or how would we know they are false.
As far as I know malicious complaints of rape are not counted or the figures released at all but I have still seen some cases which I believe were completely malicious.
Unfortunately these cases still taint the lives of the people the complaints were made against. On some occassions they have to move house to escape the baying mobs of street justice for a crime they did not comitt.

I also agree with Mr Clark that some cases are worse than others, I can't believe that anyone who has ever had dealings with those affected by rape would think any other way.

I think that people are not understanding what rape is and have their minds fixed on the knife weilding mask wearing assailant, which is not a true view of what a rapist is.

Just my point of view from 10 years of dealing with the victims of this crime.


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## 1stclassalan (21 May 2011)

I'm coming back in here - a fabulous discussion - my heart goes out to all those posters directly affected.

A good variety of scenarios have been painted by all but don't forget - Mr Clarke's words were aimed at SENTENCING of guys already convicted so the rights and wrongs of how they got to be in that predicament don't really apply.

That said, I'll add a few old fashioned opinions of my own - my sort of bloke protects women and the vunerable so takes a very dim view of those who abuse. So if I heard of a guy breaking-in or even letting himself in with enough conciousness to engage in "unatural acts" - I'd be reaching for a rusty razorblade as punishment!


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