# Loan Pony Breach of Contact



## Star_Chaser (2 June 2012)

I'm sure this has been discussed before but I hope you don't mind me placing my own as I need some basic advice with regard to loan pony agreements before seeking legal advice.

I have a loan pony on contract at the moment for my son a couple of days a week which for us is perfect as an ideal starting point as he's a toddler.  I have no intention of buying our own until he is old enough to decide if he wants to go any further.  The horses are primarily my interest and this is also partly for me but I have no wish to be a pushy parent.  Financially this makes sense and if he decided that horses are not for him we can relinquish our responsibility with relative ease.

The yard is nice in a good quiet village where we do a little roadwork before coming on to the downs.  The yard is child friendly which is excellent for us but as most of the children are school age we have the place to ourselves during the day and are usually finished by the time they start around 4-5ish.  In that respect it really is just like having my own yard again with my our own family pony.  We've had the loan of this pony under a year.  She is fabulous perfect first lead pony and a good first pony at a height that my son can grow into - just what I was hoping for on that score I cannot complain.  This is a real family activity its gets us as parents out and our son out on the days we have him with one leading and one walking beside the pony for safety. 

However since the weather has started to improve the people we loan the pony from have started to take the, as my husband calls it, 'ripping p**s'.  First of all it started with a request to change the days that we have her which I refused because we have a contract and we also have other activities planned but more importantly my husband is not available on the alternative days suggested and we are safety conscious.  The reason give was that their child now had other activities and wished to use the pony on the same day.  Then hints have been dropped about us changing ponies from our current to another which I feel is totally unsuitable something I have also refused although these hints keep coming.  

We have tried to be accommodating in that if we have finished as we only do light work and if their daughter wishes to have a short ride then she may do so.

However this week it was announced that a) the pony was off for a weeks jolly to pony club, no asking if this was ok as it breaches our agreement and is not part of our contract for the pony to be unavailable b) the pony is being used for giving lessons and other rides on our contracted days again with no request for permission from us.

I appreciate that the pony is not ours and we have tried to be accommodating but to be honest I want to make sure that a stop is put to this now.  We don't want to lose the pony she really is a great find and my son is really enjoying it just as I am teaching him the things I was taught as a child (our family have always had our own horses) as well as the basic care from having a horse again but what is the point of an agreement if they do not adhere to the spirit of it.

I would appreciate some advice.  Having seen the other posts the majority appear to be from the other end of the scale of owners having poor loaners with their ponies.  I myself lost my first and much loved pony to someone who sold her when on loan never to be seen again so I do appreciate both sides.  I must say I am incredibly disappointed to potentially be losing this pony I certainly had long term plans for her.


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## jrp204 (2 June 2012)

The only way you are going to get around this is to buy your own, unless you actually own a part share in the pony I don't see there is a lot you can do. The owners will want to swap days etc every now and again as you may which is not unreasonable, neither is the wish to take the pony to camp. I think you have to reach a compromise somewhere and I don't think the 'legal' route is the way to go, word gets around and you don't want to put people's backs up before you have even started.
What would you do if the pony became sick/lame and was unavailable?


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## DuckToller (2 June 2012)

To me it hugely depends on how much you are paying.  I had outgrown ponies that friends used over the years, but I never bothered with a contract as I usually only ask friends that I trust and what they paid was nominal, so I had overall say over what happens.

The bottom line is that the pony is theirs, and if they want to take it to pony camp for their daughter, that's their decision and there wouldn't be much point them having the pony if they couldn't take to to camp.

I agree they should have told you that there would be odd weeks when the pony was unavailable, but if it is only for one week, is that such a huge issue for you?  What happens if the pony goes lame, is there anything in the contract to cover that?  

If you feel you pay a hefty portion of what the pony costs, perhaps you should ask for a week's money back.  Otherwise if everything else is perfect, I would put up and shut up, otherwise if you were borrowing my pony I would be extremely reluctant to renew the contract as you do sound somewhat "I've signed a contract, I want my rights" type.


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## Bikerchickone (2 June 2012)

I'm sorry, this probably isn't what you want to hear but if you don't want to lose the pony I don't think there's anything you can do about it. 

If it were my pony and part loaners started to make a fuss about me doing the things I'd bought it for (pony club camps etc) I'd give them notice, sorry. 

If you love the pony that much I'd try to be as accommodating as possible. Does it make any difference to your son's ride if somebody else uses the pony on the same day? If not I'd be inclined to let it go since it sounds like the owners don't mind if you move on to another pony anyway. 

Sorry, I agree it's unfair but life's like that. If you make a fuss you stand to lose the pony completely. Sorry.


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## zaminda (2 June 2012)

I am surprised you have such a specific contract if I'm honest. I never had one for my sharers, although they were on a much more low key basis. I would also say if you were sharing a childs pony which they also ride, then you should expectit to go to camp andfor them to want to ride it everyday during the holidays, most ponies areunderworked, and you aren't doing huge amounts with it. The offerof adifferent pony could be because they want that one for times when they know you want to ride, and are trying to give you options rather than saying good bye. Do you pay a large contribution or a smaller one? Owning your own is really the only way to guarentee anything with ponies, although I do know of a few riding schools who offer a similar arrangement, although of course there ponies are also used for lessons.


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## MerrySherryRider (2 June 2012)

Tend to agree with the others. If the pony and set up is perfect for you, try to work with the owners and be a little more flexible. 
If it isn't working for you, then look else where and you may find a pony that doesn't have a rider.
These sorts of arrangements tend to work on goodwill as ultimately the owners bear the biggest responsibility for the pony, particularly in times of illness or injury.
 Are you really contemplating legal action ? If this is the case, the cost and stress would be a high price to pay. Perhaps you'd be better off part loaning at an RS where it would be a more business orientated approach.


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## Tinseltoes (2 June 2012)

Why not just go and get a FULL loan?


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## Capriole (2 June 2012)

I~m a bit bemused at the suggestion of taking legal advice 

If the share isnt working for you, Id say it would be a cheaper, less stressful, and more sensible idea to just move on. Yes, you like the pony,  but what do you expect to achieve with taking the legal route?
There has to be an element of give and take with sharing an animal, and Im afraid the way I see it the owners get first dibs on the pony. The contracts usually reflect this.

If I was the owner and you came at me with legal speak (never mind taking it further!) you'd be off down the road.  
I think if you really like this pony you need to think about whether you can make this share work, with a little more flexibility and a little less 'my rights', and if not reconsider if this is the share for you


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## hairycob (2 June 2012)

Have you tried a nice friendly chat over a cup of tea & biscuits. It's a lot cheaper than a lawyer & usually far more effective. It really sounds like there has been a lack of communication & mutual misunderstanding here. TBH if I were the owner & I heard you were thinking of talking to a lawyer I would end the loan with no further discusion.


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## Star_Chaser (2 June 2012)

Oh dear I can see that most people do not understand what a contract is or that it is a legal binding agreement between parties that holds consequences for both parties should they breach it. Cost of legal representation is null and void for me as it would cost me nothing.

This pony is paid for under that agreement in advance I am neither friends or relative of the person who owns it and it is not a 'friendly' handshake agreement as I have stated this pony is under contract.  She was advertised for loan to remain at the current yard for a specific number of days.  It is therefore not available to the owners on those days without reasonable request (not in the contract I might add!) which I as the other party am within my rights to refuse.

When or if the pony is ill I still pay the same amount and I  am still responsible for it on those days, the veterinary care of the pony is contractually the responsibility of the owner. I take my responsibilities seriously including the part about contractual agreements.  This is not about the money paid but about the fact that a simple courtesy is not being met and that they are in breach of the contract signed by both parties in behaving they way they are.

If you wish to loan your pony out then you too must abide by the contractual agreement that you have put into place otherwise it is worthless.  It is not a case of thanks for the money but I'll still do whatever I want to do and a little courtesy never goes a miss.  I would never treat a person like this if I have made an agreement and I do not expect others to behave poorly either.

If pony club or changes of days were anticipated or even if they were not then it should have been written into the contract not just assumed that it is acceptable to do whatever the owner likes.  

Otherwise where is the line drawn???   

I am a reasonable person I am an excellent loaner as I take good care of my charges, I advise what I have done I am not just a turn up and ride sort of person which so many part loaners can be to the detriment of the pony or horse concerned but neither am I someone to take the p**s out of.


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## Capriole (2 June 2012)

No I understand what a contract is, as Im sure do most of the other people who have taken the time to respond to your thread.

But, ultimately, who would be daft enough to spend lots of time and money taking someone to court on something as petty as the ow ners of a pony taking it to pony camp?  No reasonable person Ive ever met.


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## rhino (2 June 2012)

Nfp20 said:



			Oh dear I can see that most people do not understand what a contract is or that it is a legal binding agreement between parties that holds consequences for both parties should they breach it.
		
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You're quite right, most of the posters on here aren't lawyers. They do however possess a reasonable amount of common sense IME.

If I was the pony's owner I'd be stopping the part share (as it's not a loan at all) immediately (subject to terms of cont*r*act, naturally)


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## rockysmum (2 June 2012)

Good luck with that then

I just hope the owners put a clause in to end this agreement immediately, otherwise they could end up stuck.

I think they are already trying to tell you something by asking you to change to another pony.

At the end of the day if you dont like it end the agreement and try to find something which suits you better.


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## Korwa (2 June 2012)

i have to agree with the majority here. they are still the owners. and as the owners, should be able to do whatever it is they want with the pony. as a sharer, you agree to be able to do things as well. but, if they're not giving you the amount of time, or the days, or the price you're willing to, then there are plenty of other ponies out there to go get a share of. if this situation is no longer working for you, you can find a pony you like just as much i'm sure.

and think about it the other way around. if you owned a pony, and your schedule changed, would you give up your time you had available with him so that your sharer could be happy?


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## jrp204 (2 June 2012)

I have no doubt that you consider yourself a perfect loaner, personally a perfect loaner to me would be one who has an element of give and take. I hope the owners do not frequent the forum as I imagine you would soon find yourself pony less if they saw this thread. As I said before, the horse world is very small and word soon gets around, you may have a contract but this is the sort of case that should be sorted out over a friendly chat with hopefully both parties compromising a bit, go the legal route everyone locally will hear about it and any hope of loaning etc will disappear.


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## MerrySherryRider (2 June 2012)

I understand the meaning of a contract too, I did guess that you had access to free legal representation but was trying to be polite.

If I were the ponies owners and saw this, I'd be ending the agreement pronto.


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## Dexter (2 June 2012)

I feel very sorry for the owners of the pony. I dont think you can describe yourself as a perfect loaner at all! Does the contract specify sole use of the pony on specified days? 

Actually, on reflection, I dont think it really matters, as I expect your going to find this contract terminated very shortly....


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## dafthoss (2 June 2012)

So you want to deny a small child the chance to go to pony club camp and have a great time so your son can wonder round on the pony for a short time? Can you put your self in the shoes of that child? If it bothers you that much just ask to make the days up another time or dont pay for that week, even though by the sounds of it they have offered you another pony so you dont have to miss out.

As for the child riding the pony on the same day as your son, he is still on the lead rein, the pony will cope being ridden twice. Infact I'd go as far as to say it will be good for the pony to be ridden twice a day! As long as the times dont clash then I really dont see the problem with the pony being worked twice a day (if you can call a stroll with a small child on work). 

If I had a sharer that was being that unflexable I'd be ending the arrangment!


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## Star_Chaser (2 June 2012)

I have already given in the respect of allowing the other child to ride the pony when it is not in use and I would have no issue with her being taken for the pony camp event IF I had actually been asked in advance as I said I am reasonable but I also have to deal with a child that likes routine, loves his days at the yard and with this particular pony who he has a bond with and do not wish to disappoint my own anymore than I wish to disappoint someone else's.

I am surprised that so many people complain about the way a person who loans their pony behaves when things go wrong but feel that they have the right to breach those very same contracts when the boot is on the other foot...

Legal advice is of course the last resort hence why I came to this forum for advice as a friendly chat is not proving to be fruitful.

Dexter - yes it is specific for my child on that day.
Dafthoss - the other pony suggested is not a novice ride certainly not an animal I would place a child on. No I have no wish to deny use for pony club for the child who owns this pony but as my own has autism routine is incredibly important, something that was explained when I first took this mare on loan.


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## Patterdale (2 June 2012)

I can't see that them wanting to go to Pony Club Camp for a week Is unreasonable?? It is their pony. 

Tbh you sound like a bit of a nightmare to deal with, and rigid to the letter. Unfortunately real life is often so inflexible 

As your child is a toddler it's unlikely to affect him if other people ride it in a day. 

And if the pony is as perfect as you say etc, wouldn't it be worth a bit of give and take to keep it...?

Tbh if it was my pony I would be terminating the contract if I read this. 

And as for legal advice, what do you actually want to acheive???? Your money back!? Because if you go down the legal route (ridiculous) you certainly won't be allowed near the pony again, or any others in the area for that matter. 

I hope you get it sorted out but I think your attitude could need a rethink


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## Patterdale (2 June 2012)

If son has autism I can see why you need routine, but when 2 children share one pony this will NEVER be guaranteed. So I think you will either need to put up or get your own


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## xspiralx (2 June 2012)

Actually I feel sorry for the OP, though I think they are being a little unrealistic.

If the owners have made an agreement with the loaner, then it isn't acceptable to start messing around with the terms, announcing that they are taking the pony off for weeks at PC camp without so much as a by your leave, or allowing other people to ride on the contracted days. They take money off the OP, they are not allowing her the use of the pony as a favour!

I don't think anything they are doing is terribly bad, but I think it is ill mannered. It would be one thing to ask the OP if she minded the pony going off to PC camp for a week or being used by other people on her days, or if this had been discussed prior to the arrangement being made - but just to inform her that this would be happening is rude.

Yes ultimately the owners can do what they like with the pony, but if they wish to have full control of the pony then they ought not take money for sharing it out.

OP - the legal route sounds completely pointless. If you're no longer happy with the situation then terminate the loan and find another pony.


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## rockysmum (2 June 2012)

If the OP had come on here for a moan about the owners being rather rude I would have agreed.

Threatening legal action over something like is ridiculous.

As I said I think the owners will be ending the loan as soon as they can legally get out of it.

And this is a lesson to us all.  Contracts seem like a good idea so everything is laid out.  Perhaps not always the way forward unless they are worded to give a bit of flexibility where necessary.


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## xspiralx (2 June 2012)

dafthoss said:



			So you want to deny a small child the chance to go to pony club camp and have a great time so your son can wonder round on the pony for a short time? Can you put your self in the shoes of that child?
		
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Bit unfair! 

Firstly, it is irrelevant what her son is doing with the pony - who is to say his wander around gives him less enjoyment than the other child going to PC camp? And why should her son be 'denied' his rides for the week any more than the other child?

Secondly, she would not be denying the other child anything - the owners of the pony chose to put it on part loan, and take money to compensate for that. 

Why should the sharer be made to feel bad for wanting the use of the pony as per the agreement that she has paid for? If the owners wanted the full control of the pony on any given day, then they ought not to have entered into a share agreement - or at least made it clear up front that the pony would sometimes be wanted for PC activities.


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## Tinseltoes (2 June 2012)

Nfp20 said:



			I have already given in the respect of allowing the other child to ride the pony when it is not in use and I would have no issue with her being taken for the pony camp event IF I had actually been asked in advance as I said I am reasonable but I also have to deal with a child that likes routine, loves his days at the yard and with this particular pony who he has a bond with and do not wish to disappoint my own anymore than I wish to disappoint someone else's.

I am surprised that so many people complain about the way a person who loans their pony behaves when things go wrong but feel that they have the right to breach those very same contracts when the boot is on the other foot...

Legal advice is of course the last resort hence why I came to this forum for advice as a friendly chat is not proving to be fruitful.

Dexter - yes it is specific for my child on that day.
Dafthoss - the other pony suggested is not a novice ride certainly not an animal I would place a child on. No I have no wish to deny use for pony club for the child who owns this pony but as my own has autism routine is incredibly important, something that was explained when I first took this mare on loan.
		
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Sorry BUT its NOT a loan,you are sharing and thats totally different.


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## xspiralx (2 June 2012)

Tinseltoes said:



			Sorry BUT its NOT a loan,you are sharing and thats totally different. The owners can do as they please as the pony belongs to them not you.
		
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It's a part loan. Presume the contract states that the 'loaner' has full use and care of the pony on the specified days.

I am actually shocked by the attitudes of people on this thread. Is this how sharers are seen? As a cash cow to help with the costs and care of the horse, but whose rights can be ridden roughshod over at the whim of the owner? It's just disrespectful.


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## Star_Chaser (2 June 2012)

It took me two years to find this one.  Having a child with Autism is incredibly difficult they require a routine that to some would be totally unworkable you have to give up an incredible amount but horses offer great therapy which is why we took this mare on loan in the first place.  The other days suggested my child attends a specialist school this offers me respite as well as being able to work.

All of this was explained before we signed contracts.  If I am given plenty of notice then I can arrange alternative activities but if there is no notice I have a child on my hands that literally disappears and its an incredible set back for us.

Time is a luxury which is why a part loan for now is ideal and all the time the sun has not been out we have seen no one on the days that we have her but it seems that as soon as the sun appears suddenly this horse is being used not just for the child concerned but for other uses too on the days we have paid for and agreed upon.

I don't feel I am being unreasonable as I discussed very carefully our situation prior to taking this pony on.


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## flying solo (2 June 2012)

Thank god you don't share my daughters pony! You would've had your notice as soon as you started your moaning like a school child! Grow up!

Pony is possibly on PART SHARE so it gets exercise and attention on days the OWNER doesn't/can't make it to the yard. With holidays etc these are usually flexible and SHARERS (that would be you!) are usually supposed to be flexible just as the owner would be if you were to go anywhere! 

You sound like a nightmare and I'd have you off my yard ASAP.


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## rockysmum (2 June 2012)

Nfp20 said:



			It took me two years to find this one.  Having a child with Autism is incredibly difficult they require a routine that to some would be totally unworkable you have to give up an incredible amount but horses offer great therapy which is why we took this mare on loan in the first place.  The other days suggested my child attends a specialist school this offers me respite as well as being able to work.

All of this was explained before we signed contracts.  If I am given plenty of notice then I can arrange alternative activities but if there is no notice I have a child on my hands that literally disappears and its an incredible set back for us.

Time is a luxury which is why a part loan for now is ideal and all the time the sun has not been out we have seen no one on the days that we have her but it seems that as soon as the sun appears suddenly this horse is being used not just for the child concerned but for other uses too on the days we have paid for and agreed upon.

I don't feel I am being unreasonable as I discussed very carefully our situation prior to taking this pony on.
		
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I still think you are going to get absolutely nowhere by threatening legal action.

One way or another you are going to loose this share.  Perhaps give it up and make other arrangements before things get nasty, and I have no doubt they will.

As has been said before the horsey world is small and you dont want to have word get around or you will never find another one.


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## Clodagh (2 June 2012)

I'm so sorry but you sound like the loaner/sharer from hell! If your son needs routine buy your own, this perfect mare you share does not belong to you! Gosh, I hope the owners read this thread and dump you ASAP...you want them to pay your legal fees so you can stop their child going to camp on her pony!? Amazing.


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## Star_Chaser (2 June 2012)

XspiralX - yes the agreement is for a Part Loan not Sharer and the contract is laid out accordingly with sole use and responsibility on those days.  I have found that sharers usually end up with being a dogs body when it comes to use of the horse and it is too open to arguments, something I wished to avoid.  Clarity being important when you have a child like mine.

I have to say I am exceedingly sad at some of the responses to this thread, I posted in good faith to hopefully get advice on how others who have perhaps been in a similar situation have dealt with this type of potential conflict to nip it in the bud but instead the responses have for the majority been disappointing.

My child thrives with this particular pony she is trust worthy and he has a great bond which is really aiding his Autism and has given me some hope for my sons future.  She will be a very sad loss.


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## The Fuzzy Furry (2 June 2012)

Hi, I know you say you entered into a binding contrat etc and you mention your son's problems too.
However, my advice is to terminate the contract and walk away OR accept that changes do need to be made & sort these out amicably.

Perhaps speak to a local riding school to see what they can do to help on a weekday to help you have a dedicated pony to ride, specially if its not for long.

ANY share or part loan is going to require flexibility on both sides. Horse-shows, events, Holidays, sickness, family sickness, you name it, it happens - thats life I'm afraid.

I know your son has problems (and I know how routine needs to be adhered to with these children, but equally if this is not a daily event then your son is likely to be un-noticing of which day is changed, only probably the timing - before lunch, after lunch etc). You also have to adjust HIS schedule anyway to incorporate bank holidays etc, so I do think you need to be more realistic.

Please don't put your son's needs for 2 days a week so much of a priority that it sours YOUR choice of what he is doing.

Good luck.


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## Patterdale (2 June 2012)

I see where you are coming from OP but as I say, when 2 children share one pony you CAN'T be totally rigid - it's unrealistic. 

If you need such rigid routine then you are VERY unlikely to find it by sharing/part loaning. 

You would be better getting your own and having a working livery or something for the days when you can't get to the yard.

Unforunately that's the only way you will have full control over this.


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## MerrySherryRider (2 June 2012)

I do understand your complaint about the pony being used more now the fine weather has arrived, but its in the pony's interests to work more during the grazing season, as is a week at PC camp. 
 Because your timetable is so limited and your child's needs specific, perhaps the mistake you made was in going for a share. Its a cheap way of getting a horsey fix without the commitment and cost of ownership. Shares only work when both sides are flexible and the relationship between owner and sharer is as vital as finding the right pony.
Its not right for you and threats with legal action will hardly endear you to the owners, so look for another solution.


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## Mad_Cow347 (2 June 2012)

Can't help but agree with the above. Threatening legal action is only going to stop you getting another share anywhere around your way, word will spread. Also, not really sure what you hope to achieve from legal action, all the owners are going to end up doing is giving you notice, you'll end up ponyless & I'm sure any solicitor, lawyer, judge is going to think you are wasting their time as I can't see them ever forcing the owners to let you have her when you wish & the most you are probably going to get is some money back. 

While I understand how frustrating it must be, there has to be some sort of flexibility with these things & unfortunately I would also be showing you the door if all you bleated on about was "your rights".


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## Korwa (2 June 2012)

i have to say that i'm surprised you're using your sons condition as a bargaining chip in this dispute. whether he's autistic or not. the situation isnt working for you. i dont think its right to bring it in to play and say that they have to give you this that or the other, or deny their own child anything when its their pony, just because you think your child must have that one.

if the situation is no longer working for you, there are plenty of others out there for you to share, that your child will be just as happy to spend time with. this conflict is about your schedules conflicting, which in that case, find someone to share with who doesnt conflict, or, if he has to have that rigid of a schedule, buy your own, and you wont have to worry about it.


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## risky business (2 June 2012)

I can see both sides of the coin here. 

You have an owner who has got a part loaner with a very specific contract with said loaner about days etc. But also wants a bit of flexibility within this contract perhaps not the most polite in the way of notice.

Then there's a loaner who has again signed a specific contract and is paying and sticking to this contract and trying to be flexible when they can.

I don't think either are particularly wrong in what they would like, although I do think the owners have been a little rude on things like telling the loaners what they would like/ or what's going on. 

I can understand OPs frustration on that part but I do feel your a little unrealistic with this situation. Legal action will do nothing apart from making your life harder, life isn't very fair at times and even the most well written contracts don't mean it's plain sailing.. 

We have only heard OPs side as well so don't want to outwardly judge the owners choices. 

At the end of the day OP if your not happy move on. As irritating as that would seem sometimes it's for the best.


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## Star_Chaser (2 June 2012)

So is it acceptable for the owners of this pony to turn up at 11am in the morning with their child and friends children in tow, see that I have with my son brought her in as usual, groomed her, tacked her up ready for a ride and lesson only to have them take the pony with my child standing there hat on totally lacking in any understanding as to why someone else is riding?? And where we are literally forced to either watch or to go home??

I am not asking this purely because of the Pony Club week or the odd change in date but because we have literally reached the end of our tether. 

As others have suggested I think relinquishing this pony will be what will happen but I had hoped a letter to remind them of their responsibilities with regard to their contract would suffice. Given the response on here I can only assume that most horse owners are just looking for a cash cow.


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## Mad_Cow347 (2 June 2012)

Would a polite chat with the owners not work? Explain more about your sons problems & how change in routine upsets him.

It's not the whole problem that we all have an issue with, it's the fact that you seem to have a big thing about "your rights" which is going to annoy anyone. An adult conversation without mentioning "your rights" could be a good start. If not then I would tell them you are fed up & giving notice.


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## ester (2 June 2012)

well the only way this can be resolved is by speaking to the owners, if you are unable to come to an agreement that you are happy with then I would probably suggest that booking lessons at an RS would be a better solution, as then you would have the more definite times req

eta a legal letter is only going to end up with bad feeling and a termination of the loan by the owners.


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## risky business (2 June 2012)

What you have said there is completly unacceptable of the owners.. But again if their really not bothered about doing this to you i doubt very much a letter will change anything.


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## Star_Chaser (2 June 2012)

I have already tried that and it was all very pleasant until the next time they decided they wanted to ride.  Needless to say they took no care for the pony beyond getting on its back I still ended up untacking, grooming, feeding and putting her out to pasture something I usually enjoy doing with my child after his ride as I do feel it important to teach that if you are going to ride you must also care for a pony.  I sent my own child home.

Riding lessons are great thank you for suggesting but they do not teach care skills and with a child with Autism they are not always easily accepting of strangers or busy yards.  As I said this situation was ideal for us and I have to say I thought it too good to be true when I found her and the set up available.


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## honetpot (2 June 2012)

Most children ride more in the summer, most PC rallies, shows etc take place in the summer both shares did not think a head when they formed the contract, and as we are dealing with children and animals flexability is a must.
  You may like the response to your question but unfortuately most people with chidren and ponies would give you the same answer. Yes you've signed a contract but they unless they are business what damages are you likely to get.
  My daughter shared her horse one year, it worked well for us as I told the sharers they could have her any days in the week and one day at the weekend but I would have been pretty peed off if they said they didn't want her to go to a PC rally just because it took up more days at the weekend , but if they had booked a competition we would not have said 'no because I want to go for a hack'
  There are lots of nice old brood mares looking for a home I would spend my energies looking for one of those and move on.


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## Mad_Cow347 (2 June 2012)

Well there isn't much else you can do. I don't see threatening legal action would help or change anything, you would just be shown the door.

You either need to find a pony on full loan or go to a riding school where things are more business like.


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## Asha (2 June 2012)

OP - understand your issue when you have child with special needs.
I would recommend buying your own. 

We did this when my daughter was small. To help keep the pony worked, and also because i didnt have much time, we put the pony on working livery at a local riding school. They also understood, that if we wanted to go to shows etc during the summer months as long as we gave them notice that would be fine.

We did this for about a year until we realised my daughter was addicted enough to do it full time.

Please dont go down the legal route, regardless of who is right or wrong, you will be the one who gets a reputation for being difficult.

Good luck


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## ribbons (2 June 2012)

Actually I think OP has a very valid point. Owners can't have it all ways. They agreed to give up a specific amount of use of their pony in return for financial and practical benefit. A contract of these terms was agreed and signed by both parties. 
If their requirements change that's tough. They can discuss alterations with their part loaner but must accept that this may not be possible. 
If people said what they meant, and meant what they said, and stuck to their word, never mind a contract I think the world would be a better place. 
Years ago our local riding school had part loans on many of the ponies. You had you day or days agreed and that was that. Any changes could be mutually agreed but otherwise were rigid. 
If a show or fun ride fell on your day that was great, if not, so be it. 
I personally think these owners should either care and pay for their pony entirely, or show more respect for the contract they signed with OP. Can't have their cake and eat it.


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## Bikerchickone (2 June 2012)

OP, I'm afraid that even though I totally understand where you're coming from here I don't think you can actually win in this situation. 

I would suggest your best option is a quiet coffee with them where you can express your and your son's disappointment about recent events. 

Legally yes you both signed a contract but legal action will not give you back the agreement with the original terms being enforced. It will simply get you given your notice asap, possibly with some cash back if you get a very understanding judge. Word would then spread and as others have said, you wouldn't be able to get another pony on part loan in your area. 

It's harsh and unfair but it's life. I agree things could have been done differently and I wouldn't treat my own sharers that way but realistically there's very little you can do about it, legally or otherwise unless you're prepared to sit down with them and discuss it. 

I wish you the best of luck with it.


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## lea840 (2 June 2012)

Ok, so you go to a solicitor and take some action... they write to the owner with their blurb. Now, what do you want to happen after they have read the letter? What do you think will happen after they read the letter? 

What you want to happen and what probably will happen will be worlds apart.

So what would you like to happen and what do you think will happen?


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## carthorse (2 June 2012)

This is so sad. The owner seems to want a sharer and full use of the pony. Unfortunately I expect if you don't agree they can give you notice of the contract. I think you are on a loser as they own the pony. Such a shame .Tell them of your problems then sort out between yourselves


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## carthorse (2 June 2012)

Sorry posted before finished. Or find another. Hope it works out


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## cptrayes (2 June 2012)

This is not a loan. Loaning anything does not involve an exchange of money. This is hire of the use of the pony. The contract is not working for either party and should, in my view, be terminated before things get acrimonious.

OP how far in advance did you hand over any money? If it was not more than a month or so, I would  just cut your losses and take your boy to RDA lessons if you have one locally until you find a quiet little old pony for him to love all to his ownsome.


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## Dolcé (2 June 2012)

I think you are being treated appallingley by the pony owners but I cannot see there being a good outcome for you.  From what you have written they have no consideration whatsoever about the contractual obligations, the thought they would turn up and take the pony when it was so clear you were getting ready for your son to ride is beyond my comprehension.  I cannot believe they could be so cruel to a small child, autism or not and are obviously not teaching their own children a very good lesson.  They either part loan or they don't, if they have a contract then they should observe the conditions of the contract or ensure they write in flexibility.  OP, if you take legal action what will you win, is it really worth the hassle.

The riding school suggestion was a good one if you think it through.  It could be that if there is a small school locally, with a suitable pony, they may enter into a similar agreement with you, where you can do the care thing too.  They are often quiet through the week and the work you do will hardly be taxing to a fit pony.  I really hope you can either sort out with the loan pony owners for them to give some regard to your contract or find an alternative way elsewhere for your son to be able to ride.


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## Star_Chaser (2 June 2012)

three months fees in advance. Originally it was one month but as our situation was unusual they asked for three months which I agreed with and have paid.  I paid the last three months two weeks ago.


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## carthorse (2 June 2012)

How much do you pay. The pony owner is on a good thing by the sound of it. You will just have to say no to them and if they want to finish the agreement they will have to give you your money back. Very sad


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## joeanne (2 June 2012)

Nfp20 said:



			So is it acceptable for the owners of this pony to turn up at 11am in the morning with their child and friends children in tow, see that I have with my son brought her in as usual, groomed her, tacked her up ready for a ride and lesson only to have them take the pony with my child standing there hat on totally lacking in any understanding as to why someone else is riding?? And where we are literally forced to either watch or to go home??
		
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In fairness that would have had me hopping up and down on the spot. 
OP if I were you, I would terminate the agreement (I assume you give one months notice) and request the other two months money back. 
Then go and buy your son his own pony and perhaps get yourself a sharer/part loaner to help you out with the time and money issues.
Given the amount of bad loaners out there I am suprised at the lackasdaisy attitute they are showing for what seems to be a responsible loanee.


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## MrsElle (2 June 2012)

Yes, you have been treated unfairly OP.  You are paying for sole use of the pony two days a week.  For the owners to turn up on one of your days, when you have brought the pony in for your son to ride is unacceptable.

However, the threat of legal action will not endear you to anyone.  As others have said, what do you want to achieve from that?  You really won't be doing yourself any favours, and the threat of legal action for a breach of contract on a part share of a pony is a little like using a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

Perhaps getting your own pony and getting a sharer in a few days a week is the way to go?  You will get the days you want, you will get help on the days you can't manage, and another child gets the oportunity to experience riding and caring for a pony when they might not be able to afford their own.

Have you advertised in tack shops etc to share a pony?  I have a little pony in with my two at the moment, cracking little lead rein pony who is a field ornament at the moment and we would happily let someone share him to give him something to do other than stuff his face!  There must be someone in your area with an outgrown pony who is a companion for larger horses who wouldn't mind a little boy enjoying it


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## cptrayes (2 June 2012)

I would terminate the agreement citing breach of contract on their side and demand the return of 10 weeks of your money.

From what you have tried already with the owners, who are taking the mickey, this is never going to work out, so you need to withdraw before your son becomes any more confused.


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## Star_Chaser (2 June 2012)

works out as £75 per week (£25 per day) so we pay approx £325 per month £975 for 3 months give or take a week or two. 

So its not cheap but its not expensive either given other loans that I saw available.  We also brought hay, feed, replacement buckets, winter rugs, reflocked their saddle but also brought our own fitted tack etc that were not part of the agreement but which I felt was a fair additional contribution.  We don't use their grooming kit I raided my old one and replaced a few of my brushes and kit plus a starter grooming kit for my son.

Obviously riding and safety equipment and insurance is our own responsibility.


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## Asha (2 June 2012)

Nfp20 said:



			works out as £75 per week (£25 per day) so we pay approx £325 per month £975 for 3 months give or take a week or two. 

So its not cheap but its not expensive either given other loans that I saw available.  We also brought hay, feed, replacement buckets, winter rugs, reflocked their saddle but also brought our own fitted tack etc that were not part of the agreement but which I felt was a fair additional contribution.  We don't use their grooming kit I raided my old one and replaced a few of my brushes and kit plus a starter grooming kit for my son.

Obviously riding and safety equipment and insurance is our own responsibility.
		
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I have no experience of sharing/loaning, but that sounds rather expensive !!

Is that the going rate ??

If it is might consider sharing all mine, would be quids in


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## xspiralx (2 June 2012)

Nfp20 said:



			works out as £75 per week (£25 per day) so we pay approx £325 per month £975 for 3 months give or take a week or two. 

So its not cheap but its not expensive either given other loans that I saw available.  We also brought hay, feed, replacement buckets, winter rugs, reflocked their saddle but also brought our own fitted tack etc that were not part of the agreement but which I felt was a fair additional contribution.  We don't use their grooming kit I raided my old one and replaced a few of my brushes and kit plus a starter grooming kit for my son.

Obviously riding and safety equipment and insurance is our own responsibility.
		
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My god - they are taking the biscuit!

You could keep your own pony on DIY livery for half that and find a sharer to help with the costs too.


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## 3BayGeldings (2 June 2012)

I seem to be in the minority here, in that I can totally see the OP's point of view! Why shouldn't the contract be stuck to afterall? If the owners of the pony wanted to be able to take it away for a week, or ride it every day, then don't loan it out. Why should the OP pay for the use of the pony and look after it, and then just be shoved aside whenever she gets in the way? 

I'd look for better people to loan from.


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## 3BayGeldings (2 June 2012)

And I just saw you pay £75 a week! What a joke! You can buy your own and keep it on part livery for that.


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## Patterdale (2 June 2012)

IMO that is actually v expensive for LR pony...


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## MerrySherryRider (2 June 2012)

Oh dear. That is a lot. I can understand your point a little better now. However I still think you'd be better to go an RS after getting your money refunded.


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## dafthoss (2 June 2012)

xspiralx said:



			Bit unfair! 

Firstly, it is irrelevant what her son is doing with the pony - who is to say his wander around gives him less enjoyment than the other child going to PC camp? And why should her son be 'denied' his rides for the week any more than the other child?

Secondly, she would not be denying the other child anything - the owners of the pony chose to put it on part loan, and take money to compensate for that. 

Why should the sharer be made to feel bad for wanting the use of the pony as per the agreement that she has paid for? If the owners wanted the full control of the pony on any given day, then they ought not to have entered into a share agreement - or at least made it clear up front that the pony would sometimes be wanted for PC activities.
		
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Not really pony club camp happens once a year and I doubt the child had any thing to do with getting a sharer for the pony it will have been the parents choice. I dont doubt that the OP's child gets equal enjoyment from the pony but he isnt limited to one week and could make other arrangments to make up his riding time another day pc camp is once a year. OP could even take her son to watch so they still get some horsey time that week. 

The other children taking the pony away from OP and her son after they had tacked up and were ready to ride is unacceptable but wanting to take the pony to camp isnt (which is what OP was moaning about first). 

If you want to keep the pony then you need to have a chat about having priority on the days you have the pony and the owners being able to ride arround you. If not then either buy your own and keep it on working livery, find an out grown pony thats not being used so you can use it when ever you want or go find the local rda and get him involved that way. Sending a legal letter in this situation would get you a reputation and you will struggle to find another pony as news travels fast, your best bet is to have a chat with them about it and see what they have to say. Sharers are not cash cows as you like to put it but they would be expected to have some flexibility.

ETA just seen your paying £75 a week!  sharers are more like £20-25 a week! You could have your own pony on livery for that. Get your money back and get out of there for that much money you could get a few private lessons a week at a rs for your son.


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## be positive (2 June 2012)

That seems very expensive, you are covering all their costs I would think, they are being unfair by messing you around especially as they are actually gaining so much from you.
I would probably end the agreement unless they decide to honour your contract.


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## jrp204 (2 June 2012)

Nfp20 said:



			works out as £75 per week (£25 per day) so we pay approx £325 per month £975 for 3 months give or take a week or two. 

So its not cheap but its not expensive either given other loans that I saw available.  We also brought hay, feed, replacement buckets, winter rugs, reflocked their saddle but also brought our own fitted tack etc that were not part of the agreement but which I felt was a fair additional contribution.  We don't use their grooming kit I raided my old one and replaced a few of my brushes and kit plus a starter grooming kit for my son.

Obviously riding and safety equipment and insurance is our own responsibility.
		
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I'm afraid they have seen you coming! Wish I had a sharer willing pay that much. OP, as I have said before the only way to get what you want is to get your own pony. I'm afraid you got my back up with your first few threads, they were rather confrontational. You have explained things better and I apologise if I came over as being harsh, there has to be compromise in situations like these, as it took several posts to explain how the owners were behaving I an now see that, yes, at times they are being unreasonable, questioning legalities is not the way to go. Write a letter, recorded delivery asking for the return of your money subject to breach of contract and walk away, something else will turn up and will cost nowhere near as much.


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## MrsElle (2 June 2012)

Nfp20 said:



			works out as £75 per week (£25 per day) so we pay approx £325 per month £975 for 3 months give or take a week or two. 

So its not cheap but its not expensive either given other loans that I saw available.  We also brought hay, feed, replacement buckets, winter rugs, reflocked their saddle but also brought our own fitted tack etc that were not part of the agreement but which I felt was a fair additional contribution.  We don't use their grooming kit I raided my old one and replaced a few of my brushes and kit plus a starter grooming kit for my son.

Obviously riding and safety equipment and insurance is our own responsibility.
		
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I don't know how to do shocked smilies, but £325 a month?  We would be happy for someone to ride our little lad for nowt, to keep him ticking over.

I am actually lost for words!


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## Auslander (2 June 2012)

Nfp20 said:



			works out as £75 per week (£25 per day) so we pay approx £325 per month £975 for 3 months give or take a week or two. 

So its not cheap but its not expensive either given other loans that I saw available.  We also brought hay, feed, replacement buckets, winter rugs, reflocked their saddle but also brought our own fitted tack etc that were not part of the agreement but which I felt was a fair additional contribution.  We don't use their grooming kit I raided my old one and replaced a few of my brushes and kit plus a starter grooming kit for my son.

Obviously riding and safety equipment and insurance is our own responsibility.
		
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That's an outrageous amount of money! Seriously! If I were to part share a horse, which is what you are doing, I would expect to pay *part* of the running costs of the animal.
As an example - I have a horse on DIY livery. I pay £130 per month for a stable/grazing and bedding. I buy hay at £1 per (6kg) net, and feed my horse twice a day - about £50 per month. He has front shoes on only (£45 every 6--8 weeks), insurance is £22 per month.
This is a 17hh horse - not a little pony, and I reckon my costs will be, on average £300 per month. 

They are taking the piss!


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## Sauerkraut (2 June 2012)

£75 a week? Wow, get your own pony and get a sharer in for a few days. That way you can have your days like you want them and still have help through another sharer. 

I was thinking of getting a sharer in as my two kids don't do enough with the pony and she is just getting fat on the paddock the days she isn't in work BUT after reading this thread, I am not so sure . Seems like lots of trouble. 

When I was younger all my share pony owners where very nice people and we always got along. It was always a give and take and it always worked out somehow. 

Good Luck BUT like others already said I would be careful with legal actions. The local horsey world is always very small and you might have a problem to find another pony to loan and/or if you buy a pony you might even have a problem to find a sharer then too. 

All the best


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## ester (2 June 2012)

for that I would be wanting them to absolutely stick to contract and then some!


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## xspiralx (2 June 2012)

dafthoss said:



			Not really pony club camp happens once a year and I doubt the child had any thing to do with getting a sharer for the pony it will have been the parents choice. I dont doubt that the OP's child gets equal enjoyment from the pony but he isnt limited to one week and could make other arrangments to make up his riding time another day pc camp is once a year. OP could even take her son to watch so they still get some horsey time that week. 

The other children taking the pony away from OP and her son after they had tacked up and were ready to ride is unacceptable but wanting to take the pony to camp isnt (which is what OP was moaning about first). 

If you want to keep the pony then you need to have a chat about having priority on the days you have the pony and the owners being able to ride arround you. If not then either buy your own and keep it on working livery, find an out grown pony thats not being used so you can use it when ever you want or go find the local rda and get him involved that way. Sending a legal letter in this situation would get you a reputation and you will struggle to find another pony as news travels fast, your best bet is to have a chat with them about it and see what they have to say. Sharers are not cash cows as you like to put it but they would be expected to have some flexibility.
		
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Actually it is unacceptable unless it was agreed up front. It really doesn't matter how often PC camp is, if the owners wanted some flexibility in the arrangement they should have mentioned this when the agreement was made. And if they want to have carte blanche to have the pony whenever they want, then don't enter into a part loan agreement, simple as that. It is not unfair for the loaner to want use of the pony on the agreed and paid for days. 

By the sounds of it the owners are making a nice profit from the loaner - it does not cost £75 a week to keep a LR pony on DIY livery! By the sounds of their general behaviour (taking pony off the child on the paid for days, PC camp etc) they are treating the loaner abominably.


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## MrsElle (2 June 2012)

You are actually paying for this pony's upkeep.  Say £25 a week diy = £100 a month, farrier for a trim every couple of months = £10 a month (£20 a trim), most little ponies don't need much additional feed, so max of £10 a month, hay, max £40 a month, worming, jabs, etc, not too sure, but perhaps average of £20 a month?

That comes to £180 a month to keep that pony.  They are taking complete advantage of you I'm afraid, I would chalk this down to experience and go buy your son his own little pony - or move closer to us and share ours - for nothing!


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## joeanne (2 June 2012)

Nfp20 said:



			works out as £75 per week (£25 per day) so we pay approx £325 per month £975 for 3 months give or take a week or two. 

So its not cheap but its not expensive either given other loans that I saw available.  We also brought hay, feed, replacement buckets, winter rugs, reflocked their saddle but also brought our own fitted tack etc that were not part of the agreement but which I felt was a fair additional contribution.  We don't use their grooming kit I raided my old one and replaced a few of my brushes and kit plus a starter grooming kit for my son.

Obviously riding and safety equipment and insurance is our own responsibility.
		
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OMFG!!!!!!!!!!!!! You pay HOW much? And the added "extras"
Honestly.....go buy your son his own pony! And then get a part loaner/sharer in.
I need to go and lay down after reading that....I feel quite faint.


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## ester (2 June 2012)

you wouldn't be far off getting basic full/part livery round here for that either if time for having your own is problematic!


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## Star_Chaser (2 June 2012)

I expected to pay a little more given than my son has special needs and I did have some people who offered their pony at loan decline when they learnt he was Autistic which is fair enough.  I did explain that he is not violent or anything like that just insular this pony really has made such a difference and for that there isn't any money that I wouldn't pay.  We have never forgotten that she is not our pony.

I do appreciate everyones advice and I think the drafting of a letter to terminate our contract is probably going to be the only solution, personally I doubt that I will see a return of the money we have paid.  I appreciate that my first couple of posts may have sounded aggressive but I did not want to give too much information in case our owners just put a stop straight away as has been suggested the horse world is very small but as it looks like our only option is to terminate our contract anyway giving the additional information I doubt it will do any harm.

Thank you all for your advice and comments.


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## matt_m (2 June 2012)

Things change. Contracts can be made but under the circumstances of a live animal, they only very rarely actually stand up in court so to speak...

The owner purchased the animal and whilst I can somewhat understand your annoyances, your best bet is to discuss with the owner and come to an agreement.

There is NOTHING to stop the owner ending the share agreement immediately so getting on your high horse (no pun intended) is not the way forward. If a compromise cannot be made, you're best off looking elsewhere. 

Even IF the owner amended the contract to lay out the new terms, clearly this would not be suitable for you or your son, so it may be that nothing can be done.

I would say having said all that, if you cannot use the pony for a week, then you should not have to pay for that weeks money, but I think that is pretty self explanatory. But this is as far as it goes.


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## WandaMare (2 June 2012)

OP to give you a comparison I loaned my pony for £10 a week, that was for riding every day. Could be different because he lives at home so no livery fees but £75 is a huge cost for 3 days a week......I think you could get a much better deal with someone else. Its a shame because you obviously love this pony but its maybe time to consider moving on....

There might be something else underlying the owners inconsiderate behaviour which they haven't been open about. I would feel inclined to ask them this question rather than present my grievances to them. For example, they might feel that the pony needs to do more work because its not working hard enough with your son.....etc etc. Their behaviour does sound odd and my guess there are other factors at play here............. but quite frankly at that cost I would be moving on anyway.....£75! I think that is quite ridiculous tbh.

Hope you get something else sorted for your little boy.


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## HilaryG (2 June 2012)

Is it just me that finds this a bit unbelievable?

£75 a week and three months in advance for three days use of a LR pony.

I have never seen ponies for part loan advertised for this price (never mind more expensive as the OP states).

If the owners are genuinely charging this sort of money you would think that they would do everything possible to keep the pony on part loan and keep the money coming in.


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## Foxhunter49 (2 June 2012)

A contract is a contract otherwise what is the point of having one?


Perhaps there should be certain flexibility and I do not think Nfp20 is being unreasonable in asking for the curtesy of being asked before arrangements are being made.

I expect that the owners will still expect the full money for the month even if the pony is not available for the week. 

If I were to rent something to you, say a trailer for certain days a week, and you paid up front for this, and then I said that you could not have it for a certain time and you had a show booked, you would be very annoyed. 
I know it is different with a pony but the owners should have said that there would be times when the pony would not be available.

I do not think that suing is going to get anything but trouble. The best thing is to talk to the owners and put your point of view. Tell them that you feel disappointed at the way you have been taken for granted.


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## rhino (2 June 2012)

HilaryG said:



			Is it just me that finds this a bit unbelievable?

£75 a week and three months in advance for three days use of a LR pony.

I have never seen ponies for part loan advertised for this price (never mind more expensive as the OP states).

If the owners are genuinely charging this sort of money you would think that they would do everything possible to keep the pony on part loan and keep the money coming in.
		
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I don't really get it; 2 years looking for the pony, they've had it a year yet the child is a toddler  Though as OP said, she's trying not to make herself too recognisable which is understandable.

OP - yes a contract is a legal document, however there really aren't any penalties for not following it, other than either party being able to terminate the agreement. Sadly I think you've reached that conclusion, so fingers crossed you can find something more suitable (and cheaper - it costs me less than that for my warmblood at livery!)


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## 3BayGeldings (2 June 2012)

HilaryG said:



			Is it just me that finds this a bit unbelievable?

£75 a week and three months in advance for three days use of a LR pony.

I have never seen ponies for part loan advertised for this price (never mind more expensive as the OP states).

If the owners are genuinely charging this sort of money you would think that they would do everything possible to keep the pony on part loan and keep the money coming in.
		
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Yes. I'm beginning to think it's made up to be honest. I've been on HHO too long though, so I tend to be suspicious of everyone


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## ribbons (2 June 2012)

That's a hell of a lot of money. I am surprised the owners are not treating you like royalty. They must be off their rocker to mess a golden goose like you around.


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## Starzaan (2 June 2012)

Nfp20 said:



			works out as £75 per week (£25 per day) so we pay approx £325 per month £975 for 3 months give or take a week or two. 

So its not cheap but its not expensive either given other loans that I saw available.  We also brought hay, feed, replacement buckets, winter rugs, reflocked their saddle but also brought our own fitted tack etc that were not part of the agreement but which I felt was a fair additional contribution.  We don't use their grooming kit I raided my old one and replaced a few of my brushes and kit plus a starter grooming kit for my son.

Obviously riding and safety equipment and insurance is our own responsibility.
		
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That is not a loan. Loaning a horse, in my experience is when the horse is given to the loaner and treated by said loaner as their own horse, yet the owner retains ownership. No money changes hands. 

That is ridiculously expensive. £75 per week is insane, especially when it's only for three days - you could buy your own pony and keep it on DIY livery, with a lesson a week for less than that! I charge less than that for full grass livery - which is all care of the horse at grass with exercise six days a week - so you could even put a pony on full or part grass livery if you haven't enough time to have it on DIY.

I agree with other posters about your attitude towards the whole thing though. Although these people sound like they've taken advantage of your being somewhat naive and stung you for a lot of money, and they are being slightly unreasonable turning up and expecting to ride on "your days", it is, after all, their pony. I would be fuming if a sharer told me I couldn't take my own horse to camp or a competition - regardless of a contract.

I feel for you, as they have obviously behaved badly, but threatening legal action is ridiculous. I would buy a pony for your son and let that be the end of it. It would be much less stressful for everyone I'm sure! I'm a senior RDA instructor, and I really commend you for getting your son involved with horses - they really do make an incredible difference. I also know how important routine is, and so it would make sense (to me, at least!) to buy a pony for your son and have him help you each day. Horses like routine almost as much as autistic children, I've found that getting children to help me with the horses, sticking to a clear and set routine, helps them enormously.

Good luck!


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## honetpot (2 June 2012)

Having loaned out and shared school masterponies to other people I have never took any money. I do not expect someone else to keep my pony even if my child never rides it.
 Loaners pay for normal running costs but they take them home, I pay for vaccinations as I want them done.
  If you are paying this amount of money I think they saw you coming.


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## Mad_Cow347 (2 June 2012)

HilaryG said:



			Is it just me that finds this a bit unbelievable?

£75 a week and three months in advance for three days use of a LR pony.

I have never seen ponies for part loan advertised for this price (never mind more expensive as the OP states).

If the owners are genuinely charging this sort of money you would think that they would do everything possible to keep the pony on part loan and keep the money coming in.
		
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Not just you! I cannot believe anyone would pay that sort of money. Autistic child or not. If someone tried to charge me more just because my child had a disability I would not be impressed, especially as he's only young and therefore probably not hugely different in terms of responsibility to other children that age. 

OP, apologies if we've all come across as harsh but a lot of people, particularly in the horse world, are fed up of the whole suing mentality that has come across from America over the recent years. I think it was the mention of legal action that has riled us all but now you've explained more we can all see the problem.

There is no way that it costs them that amount of money per month to have that pony, I think they are completely ripping the p**s out of you & making a nice little profit while their at it. Go out, get your own & find a nice sharer to help you out, if your lucky, someone who you can make a nice profit from too!


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## Ro5ie (2 June 2012)

Asha said:



			OP - understand your issue when you have child with special needs.
I would recommend buying your own. 

We did this when my daughter was small. To help keep the pony worked, and also because i didnt have much time, we put the pony on working livery at a local riding school. They also understood, that if we wanted to go to shows etc during the summer months as long as we gave them notice that would be fine.

We did this for about a year until we realised my daughter was addicted enough to do it full time.

Please dont go down the legal route, regardless of who is right or wrong, you will be the one who gets a reputation for being difficult.

Good luck
		
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What a good idea. There are a lot of good riding schools out there who offer this option: Working livery would be a good solution. There are also a lot of wonderful small ponies looking for homes. I'm currently working at a riding school in France where they regularly teach autistic children and the care and attention the staff give the children and their supporters is fantastic. It is a pleasure to be involved in. I also know my local riding school in Scotland does much the same. I'm not sure how much research you have done into this option, but if it is a new idea, then perhaps you could research it. For the price you are currently paying for this share there must be another less stressful situation.

Having worked with autistic children, although not quite so small, I recognise the fears you have about changing your family's routine but the current situation and your anxiety created by it probably isn't helping him or the rest of your family either. If the pony's owners choose to end the contract you will be in the same situation as choosing to leave, but without the confidence in knowing it was your decision.

As a child my family always loaned ponies for me, (although not shared), because of my ever-growing legs and a limited pony-buying fund! It can be a wonderful opportunity to make lifelong friends and to learn so much. I'm not sure a letter would be well received in the current situation.

Good Luck with everything. Remember, ponies should be fun for everyone involved


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## Mad_Cow347 (2 June 2012)

3BayGeldings said:



			Yes. I'm beginning to think it's made up to be honest. I've been on HHO too long though, so I tend to be suspicious of everyone 

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Same here, also noticed that she didn't mention that her son was autistic until someone else said that it would be a different if he was & suddenly he was.

Again might just be the fact that I'm a bit suspicious on here too, I've been a lurker a lot longer than a poster.

If you aren't OP then I apologise but all seems a little odd that your paying so much for so little. My 15'2 doesn't cost that much to keep in the middle of winter.


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## Star_Chaser (2 June 2012)

We have had the pony UNDER one year most of the winter.  

Originally she was advertised as £20 per week for a days loan.  I thought this reasonable as riding lessons can be anything up to £35 for an hour when I made my enquiries and not before the age of 5 years at the places I approached. This was increased to £25 given our child and I am happy to pay that.  They offered an increase to the number of days which we accepted and paid same price for each day. My son is 3.5 so not technically a toddler but he is still under school age.  We are a horse family on both sides my in-laws still have them and my son was on a horses back at 6 months I don't think what I have done is unreasonable at all. 

I do appreciate it sounds a lot of money but our original outlay was £25 which I felt was reasonable.


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## Dobiegirl (2 June 2012)

OP even without the huge sum of money involved I still agree a contract is a contract after all what is the point of making one. 

In your situation I would have a quiet word with the yard owner and explain everything. Ask if they think the owner is being unreasonable but dont mention legal action which to mind is pointless. If you can get the YO on side they may be able to plead your case and get the owner to have a rethink. 

I can understand you not wanting to surrender this pony as he sounds a saint and they are not easy to find but you may have to if the YO dosnt want to get involved or cant help.

We bought our daughter a LR pony many years ago who taught her to ride and was wonderful but they are like gold dust, if he was still alive we would gladly loan him to you for free.


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## Achinghips (2 June 2012)

Walk away. Put it down to experience and never pay such a large amount again. Loan/share/hire etc .... it's still not your pony - ever. Owners can do what they like, "contract" or not  - and these ones saw you coming!  They will probably read this and so you will have no choice now anyway, my guess is that you will not see that money again.  You have been naiive.

Either buy your own pony or take your child to riding lessons at a BHS registered school.  Then you can have the sole control you demand.


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## rhino (2 June 2012)

Nfp20 said:



			Originally she was advertised as £20 per week for a days loan.  I thought this reasonable as riding lessons can be anything up to £35 for an hour when I made my enquiries and not before the age of 5 years at the places I approached. This was increased to £25 given our child and I am happy to pay that.  They offered an increase to the number of days which we accepted and paid same price for each day. My son is 3.5 so not technically a toddler but he is still under school age.  We are a horse family on both sides my in-laws still have them and my son was on a horses back at 6 months I don't think what I have done is unreasonable at all.
		
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They're taking the mickey, big time. It will be an upheaval, but I really think you need to get out of that situation, asap. There _will_ be others out there, I promise  They charged you _more_ as your child is autistic?!


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## xspiralx (2 June 2012)

Nfp20 said:



			We have had the pony UNDER one year most of the winter.  

Originally she was advertised as £20 per week for a days loan.  I thought this reasonable as riding lessons can be anything up to £35 for an hour when I made my enquiries and not before the age of 5 years at the places I approached. This was increased to £25 given our child and I am happy to pay that.  They offered an increase to the number of days which we accepted and paid same price for each day. My son is 3.5 so not technically a toddler but he is still under school age.  We are a horse family on both sides my in-laws still have them and my son was on a horses back at 6 months I don't think what I have done is unreasonable at all. 

I do appreciate it sounds a lot of money but our original outlay was £25 which I felt was reasonable.
		
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Seriously, they have some cheek, and have taken major advantage of you.

In fact, they are probably making a considerable profit from you as I'd imagine it costs them less than half that to keep the pony themselves. I wonder if there would be any legal/tax implications if they are actually hiring the pony out for a profit - would they even be insured for that?

Please just get out of this situation and buy your own pony - it will be far cheaper and much less aggro. If you've paid in advance then I'd request the money back, but if they refuse to give it to you then just continue using the ponies on your agreed days up until the end of the term paid for.


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## joeanne (2 June 2012)

My pony is on free full loan to a child who is autistic.
They pay all costs (minimal as he is kept at their farm) and he lives the life of bloody riley.
There is no way I would charge someone more simply because their child has special needs!
OP, I'll say it again, buy your son a pony of his own. Then get a sharer in to help with the costs and time.
You can't lose, and your son will have the stability he needs and as the pony will be your own, YOU can decide what days are best for you.
My boy is spoilt rotten by the little lass who has him, and he absolutely adores her!


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## Orangehorse (2 June 2012)

There must be loads of older, quiet ponies looking for a home that would be suitable for you.  You need something that is nice and quiet obviously, but I really think that it shouldn't be very difficult.  Ask around the Pony Clubs.


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## biggingerpony (2 June 2012)

No advice, just shocked at how cheeky the owners are being! £75 a week!! My 15.2 mare costs me £150 a month for everything!! Jeeeeeeez some people take the p***. If I had a lead rein pony and and someone suitable with a disabled child approached me I wouldn't hesitate to give it to them on full loan or just ask for the odd contribution for odds and ends. And your right horses are brilliant therapy


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## Pearlsasinger (2 June 2012)

Nfp20 said:



			I have already given in the respect of allowing the other child to ride the pony when it is not in use .............. but I also have to deal with a child that likes routine, loves his days at the yard and with this particular pony who he has a bond with and do not wish to disappoint my own anymore than I wish to disappoint someone else's.

 ................ but as my own has autism routine is incredibly important, something that was explained when I first took this mare on loan.
		
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Very interesting, given the inflexibility of OP.

I'm afraid that if the arrangement doesn't suit you, your only recourse is to terminate the agreement.
I do agree, however, that the pony's owners should have built some flexibility into the contract.  Unfortunately if they are not used to loaning, they are maybe learning from their mistakes.

Sorry OP I've just read the price you are paying.  I think it is far too much - no pony should cost that to keep per week, never mind for a few days.  
I think you would be better all round buying your own pony.


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## cptrayes (2 June 2012)

Nfp20 said:



			works out as £75 per week (£25 per day) so we pay approx £325 per month £975 for 3 months give or take a week or two. 

So its not cheap but its not expensive either given other loans that I saw available.  We also brought hay, feed, replacement buckets, winter rugs, reflocked their saddle but also brought our own fitted tack etc that were not part of the agreement but which I felt was a fair additional contribution.  We don't use their grooming kit I raided my old one and replaced a few of my brushes and kit plus a starter grooming kit for my son.

Obviously riding and safety equipment and insurance is our own responsibility.
		
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This is not credible, sorry. You write very well and I think I have been fooled by you, but I find it impossible to believe that in Ashbourne, just  up the road from me, anyone can get away with charging £75 a week for the hire of a pony for three days.

It "is not expensive given other loans that were available" ? It's like no loan or contract hire I have heard of in my life!  Please feel free to PM me with the name of the stables that you are at so I can check it out and apologise if I have misjudged you, but if this is true, you have been well and truly had.

Cancel to the contract citing their breach and demand your money back through the courts if necessary and put us all out of the misery of reading any more of this, which is getting a bit ridiculous


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## Star_Chaser (2 June 2012)

cptrayes thank you for your generous welcome   I did not join this forum for you to decide whether my post and its content is honest or not I joined it to get some advice if you do not wish to add anything constructive then please feel free not to reply.

Legal Action I had in mind was a registered letter.  At no point have I stated my intentions were to end up in court unless it was for return of my property.


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## Batgirl (2 June 2012)

You are being absolutely ripped off, £75 pw is nearly full livery price.  The fact that your son has autism is actually neither here nor there when it comes to the price, you are not getting any special treatment/facilities or care, it is something you manage.  I also think the owners are being unreasonable.  You are not a sharer, you are paying a huge price that in my eyes means you have more than fairly hired/loaned the pony for the specific days.

TBH I would buy or full loan a pony, it would cost no more and you would have full control.


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## Korwa (2 June 2012)

@ the OP

you bought things, and supplies for a horse that was never yours. you knew was never yours. now, correct me if i'm wrong, because i am an american, and so the legal system is slightly different. but, just because you bought things for this horse that was never yours, and it then didnt work out, i dont think any court would recognize "takebacks" to get your property back. if you didnt wanna lose it, you shouldnt have bought it for someone elses horse.

now, what was yours, and you kept in your possession, and you brought with you each time you had a day with your horse, thats different. but anything that was given to someone elses horse, or to the owner for said horse, you should consider lost, and have a little better judgement in the future.


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## Honey08 (2 June 2012)

cptrayes said:



			I would terminate the agreement citing breach of contract on their side and demand the return of 10 weeks of your money.

From what you have tried already with the owners, who are taking the mickey, this is never going to work out, so you need to withdraw before your son becomes any more confused.
		
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We used to loan our son's first pony out.  She stayed on our yard and we charged them £15 a week which covered the stable, bedding, hay and tiny bit of hard feed she got.  They paid for shoes, insurance and injections.  We also gave them lifts to rallies and shows.  They had her 24/7.  Not all of us see sharers/loaners as cash cows!

From your initial posts you came across as a bit haughty and self centred. (sorry!) Your later posts show that your situation is a bit special and that a lot of money is involved, so I feel a lot differently to the situation.

It does sound as though they have no respect for you at all, and are treating you more as a riding school client who has paid upfront and provided a lot of the equipment themselves!  Its one thing for people to say that the owner should be able to take the pony to camp, but its not right to do that without letting the loaner/sharer know.  Same goes for turning up to ride when you were about to.  Its a basic lack of respect or manners on the owner's side.

I get the impression that the owners are fed up of the situation too - they have tried to change things by chatting to you, you couldn't, so refused, now they are just doing it without asking and almost trying to push you onto another pony or get you to leave.

I would prepare to terminate.  Start rounding up as much of the rugs etc that you paid for before you tell them, as they will no doubt expect to keep them.  I do think they were naughty taking so much money up front when they seem to be pushing to get rid of you, and I don't think a legal letter would be out of place if they don't refund you some of the money after a month's notice perhaps..

I agree with those who said find a good riding school or RDA centre, get some lessons there as a stop gap (a lot of riding schools that I've worked at are very quiet during the day..) and look for your own pony - even better if the pony could then go on working livery there when you find it.

Good luck.


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## cptrayes (2 June 2012)

Nfp20 said:



			cptrayes thank you for your generous welcome   I did not join this forum for you to decide whether my post and its content is honest or not I joined it to get some advice if you do not wish to add anything constructive then please feel free not to reply.

Legal Action I had in mind was a registered letter.  At no point have I stated my intentions were to end up in court unless it was for return of my property.
		
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You have my advice. If this is for real then you have been well and truly done over. 

Walk away from the contract now and demand your advance paid money back. Your son is only three, (you started looking for a pony for him when he was not yet a year old?) He is small enough to control should he get upset about not seeing his pony. It's not ideal but neither is a situation where you take him to get the pony ready and then let some other child get on it. Why do you not refuse? Just stop the whole thing now before he gets even more attached to a pony where it is quite obvious the relationship must end. What do you think is going to happen in the summer holidays if you continue this? It makes no sense. End it now.


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## Star_Chaser (2 June 2012)

Thank you.  I re-read my posts to make sure I wasn't misrepresenting myself and I have only asked for advice prior to seeking LEGAL ADVICE I made no suggestion of court proceedings.

Korwa the property I am referring to is the saddle and bridle that i purchased for my son to use on this pony.  Basically I brought my own because I wanted something a little more comfortable for my son to use and because if I damage my own or if theirs gets damaged then I hold no responsibility for it.

Things like the rugs I would never dream of taking back I brought them for the comfort of the pony.


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## Pedantic (2 June 2012)

That's the horsey game for you, right and wrong morals blah blah won't come into it, you've been taken for a sap, learn and move on.


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## Echo Bravo (2 June 2012)

What a rotten situation for you,but once bitten twice shy,end the contract get back what belongs to you and get in touch with said pony club and see if there is a little very old pony wanting his last home with not to much hassle,just much love and the odd ridden exercise thrown in.


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## Mongoose11 (2 June 2012)

Nfp20 said:



			I'm sure this has been discussed before but I hope you don't mind me placing my own as I need some basic advice with regard to loan pony agreements before seeking legal advice.

I have a loan pony on contract at the moment for my son a couple of days a week which for us is perfect as an ideal starting point as he's a toddler.  I have no intention of buying our own until he is old enough to decide if he wants to go any further.  The horses are primarily my interest and this is also partly for me but I have no wish to be a pushy parent.  Financially this makes sense and if he decided that horses are not for him we can relinquish our responsibility with relative ease.

The yard is nice in a good quiet village where we do a little roadwork before coming on to the downs.  The yard is child friendly which is excellent for us but as most of the children are school age we have the place to ourselves during the day and are usually finished by the time they start around 4-5ish.  In that respect it really is just like having my own yard again with my our own family pony.  We've had the loan of this pony under a year.  She is fabulous perfect first lead pony and a good first pony at a height that my son can grow into - just what I was hoping for on that score I cannot complain.  This is a real family activity its gets us as parents out and our son out on the days we have him with one leading and one walking beside the pony for safety. 

However since the weather has started to improve the people we loan the pony from have started to take the, as my husband calls it, 'ripping p**s'.  First of all it started with a request to change the days that we have her which I refused because we have a contract and we also have other activities planned but more importantly my husband is not available on the alternative days suggested and we are safety conscious.  The reason give was that their child now had other activities and wished to use the pony on the same day.  Then hints have been dropped about us changing ponies from our current to another which I feel is totally unsuitable something I have also refused although these hints keep coming.  

We have tried to be accommodating in that if we have finished as we only do light work and if their daughter wishes to have a short ride then she may do so.

However this week it was announced that a) the pony was off for a weeks jolly to pony club, no asking if this was ok as it breaches our agreement and is not part of our contract for the pony to be unavailable b) the pony is being used for giving lessons and other rides on our contracted days again with no request for permission from us.

I appreciate that the pony is not ours and we have tried to be accommodating but to be honest I want to make sure that a stop is put to this now.  We don't want to lose the pony she really is a great find and my son is really enjoying it just as I am teaching him the things I was taught as a child (our family have always had our own horses) as well as the basic care from having a horse again but what is the point of an agreement if they do not adhere to the spirit of it.

I would appreciate some advice.  Having seen the other posts the majority appear to be from the other end of the scale of owners having poor loaners with their ponies.  I myself lost my first and much loved pony to someone who sold her when on loan never to be seen again so I do appreciate both sides.  I must say I am incredibly disappointed to potentially be losing this pony I certainly had long term plans for her.
		
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I agree with some of the points made by other posters. My own opinion is that you, as a sharer, need to be as flexible as possible - whether you have an agreement in place or not. You will find that your local agreement isn't legally binding in anyway as it involves property (the pony) that you have no ownership or right to.

If the changes are something that you can not put up with then you should move on and find another share or buy your own. I am not suggesting that you don't have the right to be pee'd off - you do but you don't have the right to be speaking of seeking legal advice about your rights to someone else's pony. 

I do think sharers need to be more mindful of the owners time with the animal or duties on the whole, often sharers are getting a third of an animal's time for much less than the third of the costs! A sharer needs to be flexible and it doesn't sound like you have flexed on any point of your original agreement.

The bits that stand out for me from your post are 'she may do so' talking about the daughter riding on YOUR days and the phrase 'permission from us' - to be honest these have no place being used by a person in your position. Perhaps it is this stance that finds you in the predicament you are in!

Having now read even more of the thread - are you a plonker? (meant in the nicest possible way?) £75 per week and paying almost a thousand pounds in advance?! If you want to be in the horseworld you need to be a bit more savvy than that! That's just plain stupid in my opinion.


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## Echo Bravo (2 June 2012)

Billie1007 Sensible,very sensible


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## MrsMozart (2 June 2012)

I'm not sure what you want of us OP. 

You state that the owners aren't adhering to the contract. You've had the gentle chat, which hasn't produced the 'correct' response. So, now have the cards on the table discussion. Be clear, precise, and concise. Get it all out into the open. Once you have their response, if it's not what you want/contracted for, then either you sue for breach (which you will have to document you gave them the right to remedy), or accept that is how it is and enjoy what you can of the pony for as long as you have left on the contract. 

I appreciate that your son has autism, but where horses are concerned, even in the normal course of events, things do not always run smoothly.


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## horsesatemymoney (2 June 2012)

I feel for you OP, you've obviously put a lot of faith in these people and for your son's benefit. However,  the mention of the word 'legal' in any context will end the contract, as they've already proven themselves not to be reasonable, as you say that you have already spoken to them. Added to that, if the thought of the £75 over the odds a week that you are paying them hasn't made them behave better to you, I doubt much will work.


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## justforfun (2 June 2012)

As someone who used to part loan, share and now owns my own horses and ponies I can see both sides to this.
Legal action will solve nothing and would only cause more bad feeeling. yes it is very upsettng for any child to be unable to ride{more so when you dont own your own pony}, but some flexabilty should also be applied.
I part loan my daughters first pony out and its all done in a very friendly and flexable way, with consideration being given to all parties, if one of the sharers/loaners were to wave legal action under my nose, I would cancel the whole aggrement, I need to have a kind, supportive and flexable relationship with them.
Sadly it sounds like although the pony is perfect, the relationship between owner and loaner is not, legal action wont fix this.


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## hairycob (2 June 2012)

OK so you have tried the chat route - your OP didn't say that & you came across as quite snotty. It was your posts that made you sound like the sharer from hell - maybe communication/empathy skills are something you find difficult. 
It does sound like the owners are truly giving you the run around & right royally taking the micky (but there was a recent mega hooha on here that really showed up that there are 2 sides to every story). The £75pw is really quite ridiculous - I am having trouble finding a 3 day a week share for a horse for £20pw & I am happy for the sharer to do PC/RC activities with him. 
Walk away, as many have already suggested. If you want absolute stability buy your own - it's got to be cheaper. A legal letter won't get you what you want. More likely your son wouldn't even get a chance to say goodbye to the pony & that would be terribly sad for him. Terminate the contract but make sure you can do it in the best way for him, even if that means he says goodbye before you tell the owner & you lose money. Do it before it gets nasty, because whether they are behaving as you say they are or not I can't see this situation working for long & one of you could so easily do/say something silly & you need to protect your child from the fallout.


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## mcnaughty (2 June 2012)

xspiralx said:



			It's a part loan. Presume the contract states that the 'loaner' has full use and care of the pony on the specified days.

I am actually shocked by the attitudes of people on this thread. Is this how sharers are seen? As a cash cow to help with the costs and care of the horse, but whose rights can be ridden roughshod over at the whim of the owner? It's just disrespectful.
		
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I absolutely agree with this - OP is absolutely right (albeit legal action is a bit OTT!)

Sorry, but if I had an agreement with a loaner (part or full) and we had a written or even verbal agreement I would make every effort to stick to it.  Sorry, but if money changes hands and you are happy to take said money they you MUST be happy to stick to the rules and RESPECT the other party.  This respect goes both ways!  Very simply if you do not want to take money for loaning anything and want to keep this something to yourself then great.  If you want to take the money then you have to play by the rules!  Having cake and eating it comes to mind!!

OP - you need to remind them in no uncertain terms what you agreement says.  I would let them take the pony on PC camp under one proviso only and that is they NEVER take the pee again and next year they ask your permission before going to camp again!  The other child obviously knows about camp and I would hate to stop them from going.  Camp for little ones usually only lasts for 4 days so a swapsee could be in order of days?

Be firm, stand your ground but lawyers are not the way to handle this issue.

Others on here - please never loan a horse out - you obviously have absolutely no respect for anyone that would loan from you and it would be a roller coaster of pain for your poor loanee!


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## Mongoose11 (2 June 2012)

mcnaughty said:



			I absolutely agree with this - OP is absolutely right (albeit legal action is a bit OTT!)

Sorry, but if I had an agreement with a loaner (part or full) and we had a written or even verbal agreement I would make every effort to stick to it.  Sorry, but if money changes hands and you are happy to take said money they you MUST be happy to stick to the rules and RESPECT the other party.  This respect goes both ways!  Very simply if you do not want to take money for loaning anything and want to keep this something to yourself then great.  If you want to take the money then you have to play by the rules!  Having cake and eating it comes to mind!!

OP - you need to remind them in no uncertain terms what you agreement says.  I would let them take the pony on PC camp under one proviso only and that is they NEVER take the pee again and next year they ask your permission before going to camp again!  The other child obviously knows about camp and I would hate to stop them from going.  Camp for little ones usually only lasts for 4 days so a swapsee could be in order of days?

Be firm, stand your ground but lawyers are not the way to handle this issue.

Others on here - please never loan a horse out - you obviously have absolutely no respect for anyone that would loan from you and it would be a roller coaster of pain for your poor loanee!
		
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I think it is clear that you have never had a sharer take the mick!? You can't use the words 'let', 'permission', 'never', 'stop' when you are a sharer/loaner. It is the position you put yourself in when you become a sharer. Precisely the reason why I ended up buying my own. I have had a sharer and I would like to think I didn't treat her badly. If a sharer ever tried to tell me that I couldn't take my horse away on a camp (with prior notice) because it breached her original arrangement then I would politely tell them to bog off. I wonder how many sharers arrange holiday cover for 'their' days if they are away. Very few I would imagine - the owner is expected to cover those days!!

Laughable!


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## Star_Chaser (2 June 2012)

Sadly I have to agree.  

It is a shame really until recently its been a lovely experience for us but as others have said things change thats life and I do appreciate that but as you have said I put my faith in these people and had no reason to think things would turn out like this.  Other people at the yard have had a bit of a raw deal and been verbal about it so I should not be surprised or disappointed but I am especially as there was an opportunity when I paid my last fee for them to decline and terminate our contract with a period of notice if they wanted to.


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## MrsMozart (2 June 2012)

How much???!!!!

Get your own pony lass! Then, if your wee lad doesn't want to keep riding, get a sharer or loan the pony.


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## horsesatemymoney (2 June 2012)

Although if I were you, I'd hold off terminating the contract until I had what I had paid for, to save the hassle of trying to get cash back.


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## Always Henesy (2 June 2012)

I agree with xspiralx on everything.

Shocking behaviour from the owners of the pony.

If I had a lead rein pony suitable for your son I would gladly offer the ride free of charge. I would do this because as a mother I understand that there is nothing better than seeing your child happy and smiling. 
Sadly I don't have one and I'm thinking 19hh may be too big? 

I really hope you can find a suitable pony for your son and he continues to get the enjoyment that every child deserves (well maybe with the exception of my 4 year old daughter when she is in full on tantrum mode  )

I wish you well.


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## MrsHutt (2 June 2012)

That amount of money is just bonkers!  I pay HALF that for my big 15hh 2" cob to be on working livery - it means he gets looked after 7 days a week and ridden when I can't get up there.  The days when I can get there, I can 'play' with him as much as I like.  That would be a far more suitable arrangement for you.  There is an old girl at our yard that is used for children (including disabled and autistic) who is an absolute poppet - I am sure there must be hundreds of similar out there??


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## rascal (2 June 2012)

I feel for you, but at the end of the day people loan/share so that they can have the final say. We have been happily sharing horses/ponies for over 30 years, then we had the family from hell, they lied, stole and when we got fed up and told them to leave they refused! They stole tack/cash and our cats, the only reason i didnt call the police was because i know what a good liar she is!! I very much believe that we get back what we give out, someone sold them a pony that the vet had advised be put to sleep, it collapsed on the road, they were lied to. Perhaps now they know how we felt. 
In your case i would find another pony.


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## EllenJay (2 June 2012)

3BayGeldings said:



			I seem to be in the minority here, in that I can totally see the OP's point of view! Why shouldn't the contract be stuck to afterall? If the owners of the pony wanted to be able to take it away for a week, or ride it every day, then don't loan it out. Why should the OP pay for the use of the pony and look after it, and then just be shoved aside whenever she gets in the way? 

I'd look for better people to loan from.
		
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I 100% agree with you - I think that the OP has been treated very badly - and if a contact is in place I would definately go along the legal route.  They have nothing to lose - but for the amount of money the OP is paying, they could get a lovely pony of their own.  I would tell the owner to "bog off" and return the 3 months payment upfront.

Edit to correct spellings - it is Saturday eve!!!!


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## Honey08 (2 June 2012)

Billie1007 said:



			I think it is clear that you have never had a sharer take the mick!? You can't use the words 'let', 'permission', 'never', 'stop' when you are a sharer/loaner. It is the position you put yourself in when you become a sharer. Precisely the reason why I ended up buying my own. I have had a sharer and I would like to think I didn't treat her badly. If a sharer ever tried to tell me that I couldn't take my horse away on a camp (with prior notice) because it breached her original arrangement then I would politely tell them to bog off. I wonder how many sharers arrange holiday cover for 'their' days if they are away. Very few I would imagine - the owner is expected to cover those days!!

Laughable!
		
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It is laughable that people putting up their horses for share expect to be able to change things as they like and the sharer can lump it.  The difference in your example of taking your horse to camp and the OP's story is in the "with prior notice" part of the paragraph.  OP* is *being treated badly by the owners.  *Both* sides should be polite  to each other.


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## rhino (2 June 2012)

mcnaughty said:



			Others on here - please never loan a horse out - you obviously have absolutely no respect for anyone that would loan from you and it would be a roller coaster of pain for your poor loanee!
		
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I wouldn't. I won't have anyone dictating to me what I do with my horse. I have let plenty of people borrow/ride/compete my horse over the years but I won't take money for it because I won't give anyone else 'rights' over him.

Please could you also stop the personal comments towards cptrayes, there is no need for the insults.


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## Mongoose11 (2 June 2012)

Honey08 said:



			It is laughable that people putting up their horses for share expect to be able to change things as they like and the sharer can lump it.  The difference in your example of taking your horse to camp and the OP's story is in the "with prior notice" part of the paragraph.  OP* is *being treated badly by the owners.  *Both* sides should be polite  to each other.
		
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I agree, both sides should try and be generally flexible but we are talking about the bottom line here. Unfortunately the OP is asking 'can the owner get away with this' and the answer is YES. The owner can do whatever she likes. Doesn't mean it is fair or nice but the OP isn't in a position to dictate. She doesn't want the responsibility of ownership but wants a strong say in her rights with the pony - nuh 'uh, these two don't fit!


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## mcnaughty (2 June 2012)

rhino said:



			but I won't take money for it .
		
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That is the exact reason why OP is correct in being upset.

As for cptrays - calling the OP a liar is not an insult then!


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## rhino (2 June 2012)

mcnaughty said:



			That is the exact reason why OP is correct in being upset.

As for cptrays - calling the OP a liar is not an insult then!
		
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You demanded that 'we' didn't ever loan, I explained that I never would...

Not believing a poster is one thing,



mcnaughty said:



			cptrayes - you are being a cheeky B****!   you sound like a seriously nasty piece of work that would stir up the s**t as soon as look at you!
		
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that is another. Cptrayes is not the button pushing sort, but that doesn't mean others wont be.


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## alwaysbroke (2 June 2012)

Nfp20 said:



			works out as £75 per week (£25 per day) so we pay approx £325 per month £975 for 3 months give or take a week or two. 

So its not cheap but its not expensive either given other loans that I saw available.  We also brought hay, feed, replacement buckets, winter rugs, reflocked their saddle but also brought our own fitted tack etc that were not part of the agreement but which I felt was a fair additional contribution.  We don't use their grooming kit I raided my old one and replaced a few of my brushes and kit plus a starter grooming kit for my son.

Obviously riding and safety equipment and insurance is our own responsibility.
		
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Got this far  and wished I hadn't sold my sons saint of a lead rein pony last year, you could have had her every day of the week for that amount


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## Asha (2 June 2012)

Lets bring this thread back to what its about please.

OP has a child with special needs, that routine is everything. She needs a solution.

OP - as a mother of a child with special needs, my advice to you as previously posted is  - walk away. Buy your own.

My child is now a lot older than yours,  over the years she has had a tough time, what has got her through this is her ponies. She has always been able to rely on them when others have let her down. I understand why you have willingly paid over the odds, lifes tough with a child with SP, and sometimes you just feel you need to do something to make it right. The good news is, you can.
Im not a million miles away from you, if you need any help in your search PM me. Ponies that you need are out there, i have had a few !!


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## piebaldsparkle (2 June 2012)

Nfp20 said:



			I expected to pay a little more given than my son has special needs
		
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I don't see why anyone should charge more.



Nfp20 said:



			and I did have some people who offered their pony at loan decline when they learnt he was Autistic which is fair enough.
		
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 Frankly I find that disgusting, some people's attitude really saddens me.

There is noway you should or expect to pay more.  Additionally if the pony is a genuine lead rein there is no reason for anyone to decline due to your sons Autism.

I honestly feel you are paying way over the odds and the owners are totally taking the piss.  That said I can't see them changing, so I think your only option is to terminate.  

Hell for the amount you are paying you should be easily able to find a yard offering assisted DIY and get your own pony (either buy or full loan).


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## Queenbee (2 June 2012)

Nfp I read your first post and your first paragraph of your second post.... How very patronising! I and most people on here have an absolute and full understanding of contract law, we also have an understanding of the real world and awkward people that aren't worth bothering with. My share agreements are always water tight but that doesn't mean that if the sharer wanted to use the horse on my day or vice versa that would be a problem, it wouldn't be, because I choose my sharers well, and if I ever realised that I'd made a mistake (like loaning to someone like you appear to be) you'd have a months notice from me. My contracts always state that at any time a months notice can be given by either party. Honestly, you want to dictate to this level, go purchase your own pony and then you can call the shots. 
Clarity is important in any contract and all children have needs, to keep waving the fact that you have a child with autism and arguing that this makes his needs more important is really unfair, In that circumstance I would be doing my utmost to have my child in no way set apart from others.

You also state that you searched for two years to find a good horse, then don't wreck it, if you wish to be so controlling buy your own and loan it out on the days you can't be bothered, but don't dictate to to the owner like this and honestly 'legal action'? My father deals with contract law every day and and says you'll be seen as a joke, as is the sentiment of everyone on her apart from you.

If your not happy, end your contract, what do you hope to achieve if you go down the legal route??! Happy relations?! No, you'll get a big fat end of agreement notice, and then where will your sons routine be? Stop complaining and think yourself lucky that you have part use of a horse it took two yrs to find of get your own!   As someone said, you sound like a flipping nightmare


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## Mongoose11 (2 June 2012)

Asha said:



			Lets bring this thread back to what its about please.

OP has a child with special needs, that routine is everything. She needs a solution.

OP - as a mother of a child with special needs, my advice to you as previously posted is  - walk away. Buy your own.

My child is now a lot older than yours,  over the years she has had a tough time, what has got her through this is her ponies. She has always been able to rely on them when others have let her down. I understand why you have willingly paid over the odds, lifes tough with a child with SP, and sometimes you just feel you need to do something to make it right. The good news is, you can.
Im not a million miles away from you, if you need any help in your search PM me. Ponies that you need are out there, i have had a few !!
		
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This is getting silly. This thread isn't about a child with special needs at all. Before any one gets at me for not understanding an autistic child's need for routine - I do work with children with the condition on a daily basis. This thread is about an inflexible owner and an equally inflexible loaner (whether she has been badly treated is another matter entirely). Ergo - the situation doesn't work. The OP needs to find another pony, she has no come back.


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## Parker79 (2 June 2012)

OP - This situation isn't working and you will have to walk away...but I have to say that in your situation it may be wise to anyway...I understand the difficulties faced with Autism, to rely on a pony being available is just too unreliable...as you know coming from a horsey background...ponies goe lame, have issues etc etc and its very difficult to explain that to any toddler (believe me I have a 3yo and I work with teenagers with LD).

What about part loaning from an RDA? You can often arrange an official 2 day loan and you may be able to arrange for an alternative pony to be available if in the event that yours is having a problem.  The RDA would understand and could phone ahead so that you could start to warn your son of the change.


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## igglepop (2 June 2012)

I have to agree with most people, sadly as a sharer you have very little rights but people please understand we can get treated like c***. I have had horses vanish off yards when im due to ride, left other horses to care for as owner didnt turn up, exhausted horses when they have been ridden when im due to ride ( yes i do exspect to be able to ride a horse on days im due to ride not find it an exhausted mess), told to much out yard of horses as owner was busey on multiple occasions. I think we all need to accept things are not always fair. I would personaly look for another share there are nice people out there. I have had many shares some with people from hell and some with people who have supported and helped me and changed my life. Take the good with the bad and hopefully you will find a great pony.


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## GlamourDol (2 June 2012)

Would it not be better to find a good RS and have lessons 3 times a week? You may find that in the future the pony is then available for loan?
This way, you will know your son will be riding when you want, you can request a specific pony each week and you wont be paying for something you dont feel you are getting.

Voila!


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## Luci07 (2 June 2012)

I have 2 sharers for my older mare and I am on side with the OP!  They contribute to her costs, we have agreed days...yes we can and sometimes do move days around but I take the view that on the days they have my mare...that is theirs and I would not dream of chopping and changing them. They pay me money and to me that does give them certain rights and I don't understand some of the attitudes on here....guys the way you write about it makes it sound like sharers are second class citizens!! I am very grateful I have mine

But do agree you are paying too much. Why not look at a full loan from an animal rescue like blue cross ? Or similiar? You aren't exactly working the socks of the pony and it sounds like an older pony would be great. As an eg. Our pony grass  livery in Surrey is £175 per month, and pony gets hay in the winter, rugs checked daily etc.  Shake you are not closer as there is a sec a who might well have fitted your bill. Good luck!


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## ew1801 (2 June 2012)

op i have pm`d you
i really feel for the op, being the mother of a child with needs i can completley understand why the op is putting her foot down regarding HER days with the pony.
there is nothing worse then having to try an explain to your child that their routine is changing that day as they just do not understand and watching the panic and upset is heart breaking.
The owner of the pony is well aware of the childs condition and should be taking this into account (or taken it into account when the share started).
I would be fuming to be honest and i think some of you that have posted should be ashamed of yourselfs.


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## EmmasMummy (2 June 2012)

I owned my horse. 

I had a sharer for 90% of the time I had him and I viewed it as they were doing ME a favour and contributing to my horse then I would consult them onany changes and I actually gave THEM prefereance on days etc - as I could do any day. 
Yes the owners own that pony, but if they are charging OP for a loan, and giving lessons to other children on that day  (and whos to say not charging them) then they are taking the piss big time.  It is down right rude really and shows they do not respect the loaners. 

Folk may say the OP is a 'nightmare' sharer - - - why?  Because she actually fulfils her responsibilities?  Because she isn't just a cash cow door mat for the owners??  

The owners sound like they jsut wanted someone to care for the pony when they couldn't be arsed to go to the yard, but now it is nice they can go up whenever. 

If it was me............I would start looking around for another pony, or even speak to the local riding school and explain your situation.  They may be able to accommodate something at a quiet time of the day at the yard and offer a private lesson and some time with a pony.....as I would assume that during the day its quiet even at a riding school.


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## rockysmum (2 June 2012)

I doubt if any of this will matter by tomorrow.

The OP has posted her location.  The horse world is small enough and this forum has a wide enough membership that the owners will have read this by then.

And OP, I think it was more the tone and threat of legal action that wound people up than the story itself.

Worded differently I think you might have got a lot more sympathy.

Perhaps that is one of the problems in dealing with the owners.  Trying looking harder at HOW you are communicating with them, not what.


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## Racergirl (2 June 2012)

I have to say my bit - mostly it agrees with everyone who says that they think the OP is getting an incredibly bad time of it - I can completely see why she is so frustrated.The riding when they had turned up is rude and I admire the OP for not kicking off then - I dont know that Id have been anywhere near so nice about it !! 

The thing that has annoyed me quite a lot (on the OPs behalf, obviously!) is that the owners appear to have only just told her that they are intending the pony to go to PC camp with their child....

it wasnt arranged last week - the dates for camp would have been made and announced months ago - it cant have been a suprise to the owners, so they absolutely should have asked if they can use the pony that week IMO !!! 

(sorry - but its on a par in my mind with the people who say they cant afford christmas - you know when its happening - its been the same date for 2012 years so its hardly a suprise-plan for it!!) They have had ample time to do the curteous thing and ask if they could have the pony that week, and they have chosen not to.

oh - and I also think thats a lot of money, I really wish you well finding just as nice a pony that your son can play with and love forever OP - good luck


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## Sherbert (2 June 2012)

I very rarely post on here but I have to say this thread has really got my goat. I am shocked at the majority of replys here that suggest the OP is in the wrong - and completely disgusted by some of the comments directed at her. If you have an agreement in place, money or not, it should be adhered to by both parties and any changes mutually agreed. To just turn up on a sharers agreed day and ride without prior notice is in my opinion downright disrepectful. How many owners are quick to complain if a sharer takes the mick, why is this any different?

OP unfortunately I really think you should re-consider your share, and it will be the owners loss. You sound to me to be a great sharer and if I had a pony suitable would bite your hand off! Best of luck.


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## cptrayes (2 June 2012)

rockysmum said:



			I doubt if any of this will matter by tomorrow. The OP has posted her location.
		
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It's not her location. She PMd me and told me a slightly unusual connection that she has with Ashbourne, but she chose it so as not to be identified and does not live there. My guess, though, is that if this story is true, then she is the only person in the whole country with a three month contract to hire a pony for 3 days a week for £25 a day paid in advance, to be ridden by a 3 year old autistic boy, and that it will be very easy for the owners of the pony to identify her if they are reading this. 

If they are reading this - if what we have been told is correct then I think you are very greedy and not very nice people.


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## marmalade76 (2 June 2012)

Nfp20 said:



			works out as £75 per week (£25 per day) so we pay approx £325 per month £975 for 3 months give or take a week or two. 

So its not cheap but its not expensive either given other loans that I saw available.  We also brought hay, feed, replacement buckets, winter rugs, reflocked their saddle but also brought our own fitted tack etc that were not part of the agreement but which I felt was a fair additional contribution.  We don't use their grooming kit I raided my old one and replaced a few of my brushes and kit plus a starter grooming kit for my son.

Obviously riding and safety equipment and insurance is our own responsibility.
		
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You're more than welcome to share my pony!!

To snatch the pony out from right under your son's nose when he was obviously ready to ride was downright cruel and I cannot believe that a parent could do such a thing to any child! In my book the more you pay the more 'rights' it buys you and this is the reason why I haven't always accepted money from sharers.  I have to agree that legal action will win you nothing more than some money back and a bad rep and if I were you I would say good-bye and either find another share or buy my own. 

There must be many ponies available for share, especially if your son only rides during the week. My children's pony does very little and I would be delighted if a reliable, trustworthy person wanted to to pay to ride and love her and we would be more than happy to work round them - good sharers are like hen's teeth and when you find one, they're worth looking after.


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## lhotse (2 June 2012)

I smell a TROLL.
I'm not usually wrong either....


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## 3BayGeldings (2 June 2012)

lhotse said:



			I smell a TROLL.
I'm not usually wrong either....
		
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I'm with you!


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## lhotse (2 June 2012)

A pretty sick one at that, using autism as part of the plot.


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## jeeve (2 June 2012)

Deleted


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## OFG (2 June 2012)

ribbons said:



			Actually I think OP has a very valid point. Owners can't have it all ways. They agreed to give up a specific amount of use of their pony in return for financial and practical benefit. A contract of these terms was agreed and signed by both parties. 
If their requirements change that's tough. They can discuss alterations with their part loaner but must accept that this may not be possible. 
If people said what they meant, and meant what they said, and stuck to their word, never mind a contract I think the world would be a better place. 
Years ago our local riding school had part loans on many of the ponies. You had you day or days agreed and that was that. Any changes could be mutually agreed but otherwise were rigid. 
If a show or fun ride fell on your day that was great, if not, so be it. 
I personally think these owners should either care and pay for their pony entirely, or show more respect for the contract they signed with OP. Can't have their cake and eat it.
		
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^ This

Can't believe most of the comments I have read so far (up to page 6 and got madder and madder ) in response to this thread. Are you all serious????  I think _you _would all be the part loaners / sharers from hell if this is your attitude (thinking that it is perfectly acceptable to turn up on your 'non' days and expect to take pony out. Yes it might be your pony but you have relinquished your rights to another person for x no. days or whatever in return for a monetary contribution).

What the hell is the point of having a contract for a part loan, stating days you are solely responsible for care of said pony if the owner just chooses to come and use pony on those days?

Agree that legal action is somewhat over the top but understand the OPs frustration.

An owner can't have it both ways. Either agree a flexible part loan agreement from the off or don't part loan your pony at all.

Also point taken that we only have one side of the story but even so, this is a good debating point for anyone in a similar situation.


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## shandy133 (3 June 2012)

I have sat and read through most of this thread... I can not believe you are paying £75 a week (£25 a DAY) to loan a pony.... i am finding it difficult to find a sharer for a pony of mine for less than you are paying a DAY for a week..... i allow sharers up 4 days a week too... BUT we are felexible and expect our sharers to be flexible too...
I must add that part livery in my area is almost cheaper than what you pay, so you could keep one, only come up 3 days a week and have your very own pony...

I think you should definately walk away from this one, and learn from it... they have seen you coming, and to get you to pay 3 months in advace.... that is awful. I cant believe they would do anything to upset you... 

IMO i would buy your own pony (an old riding school who could do with a quieter life - you could buy it for half the price you pay a month), put it on part livery - so you only need ot go up on agreed days... your livery owner will look after your pony when you are not around, you can get a sharer for the other days you dont have time so the pony stays fit. and you will still save yourself a fortune.

What an awful situation, but more fool you for getting into it. I do feel sorry for you and hope it turns out well.


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## rockysmum (3 June 2012)

OFG said:



			^   I think _you _would all be the part loaners / sharers from hell if this is your attitude .
		
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Actually I'm not, a statement I'm sure an ex sharer of mine who comes on here would agree with.

Mind you I have never taken any money from sharers.  I would also happily let them ride one of the others if they turned up and the one they ride was unavailable for whatever reason ( not that they would be likely to want to).

However they were flexible, helped me out, I like to think we are friends.

Except for one, who sounded a lot like the OP, and it annoyed the hell out of me.  Mind you I wasn't charging anything never mind £75 a week.


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## smokey (3 June 2012)

black_horse said:



			Why should they ask you? Its their pony, they do not need the permission and you are sharing, not loaning.



TBH you have insulted members of this forum but belittling them, and stating that you are supprised they do not understand simple logic, we do...you dont.



My brother has autism and downs, trust me, he has had to learn to cope with a lack of routine...otherwise as they get older it becomes harder to care for them. IMHO creating an artifical environment where everything can be controled so stricting is not benefiting the child and allowing him to learn a copeing mechanism. This is my opinion based on my first hand knowledge of my brother and is not a representation on how i think you are raising your son.
		
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Completely agree with this, have experience of autism and don't hold with creating a totally controlled environment. Learning to cope with disappointment is a lesson we all have to learn, and children with autism are no different in that respect. It's reasonably easy to deal with a 3 yr olds meltdown, try it when they're 14 and as big as you! We have a duty to our children to prepare them for life and coping and behaving in an appropriate way is something that we all have to learn, it's just more difficult for children with autism.


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## Mince Pie (3 June 2012)

Black_Horse and Queenbee, have you read the entire thread?

OP I suggest getting your own and putting it on livery for what you are paying. I nearly fell over when I read how much it was - I pay less than that on DIY livery for TWO!

And lastly - quite literally taking the pony from under your sons nose is not on


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## Star_Chaser (3 June 2012)

The personal attacks have really surprised and upset me so much so I am still sitting here wondering why my request has produced so much animosity I have not sought sympathy only advice.  My circumstance may be unique and I have probably shot myself in the foot posting as I have but that does not give anyone the right to be so unkind.

If the vast majority of this thread is truly what horse/pony owners feel about people part loaning or sharing their animals then its no surprise we have been treated the way we have.

A contract is supposed to protect both parties from abuse with clear agreement on the terms and conditions for use.  Before I posted I did a search to find a similar post to mine and only found those who animals had been stolen or abused, you rely on those signed contracts to protect your interests why should I not be able to rely on the very same contract to protect ours?


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## Natch (3 June 2012)

Please excuse me if this has been said, but why can't you just sit down with the owner, smile, and work out what's what?


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## undertheweather (3 June 2012)

First things first, you are part loaning, and paying for days of week with a contract. 
You are correct.

I have however previously had to take legal action with a horse that I had on loan. I tried him more than once, arranged everything with owner, signed loan agreements/contracts. I never actually got to ride the horse after he arrived, as it was in very poor condition when she hacked it over to my yard where my livery was swapped from schooling to rehabilitation as his condition was so poor and his tack not fitting. (A lot worse condition than when I tried him). He then started collapsing, the first time when the vet was there, he just collapsed on the concrete yard, not even bending his legs. He had sever liver malfunction.
His owner wouldn't take him back, or contribute to any vets fees, despite the fact she refused to let us pay for his insurance or claim on it.
Several recorded letters later we managed to get her to take him back. I can entirely see it from her point of view, but as it turned out, her YO had stopped feeding him when she knew he was leaving, it was the end of winter, no grass. She kept him on full livery previously so didn't really have any idea. 
My mum dealt with it mostly, but I believe the loan contract said he was for hacking etc, and through her refusing to claim on insurance and us paying £1000 in a month for vets etc, we managed to get her to take him back.


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## Ladydragon (3 June 2012)

Nfp20 said:



			Given the response on here I can only assume that most horse owners are just looking for a cash cow.
		
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Nfp20 said:



			works out as £75 per week (£25 per day) so we pay approx £325 per month £975 for 3 months give or take a week or two.
		
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Despite the ups and downs of this thread I'll take what you've posted at face value Nfp20...

The first bit - no, or most responses would have been to suck it up and keep paying...

The second bit - geez, they saw you coming and I think possibly, your own belief in 'needing' a special type of arrangement because of your son's medical condition has maybe skewed your expectations of having to pay inappropriately...  Were your child 'complication free' I doubt you'd have considered such a ludicrously outlandish amount of money...

Let's be realistic...  Yep, they're in breach of contract...  Yep, it sounds as if they're taking the proverbial and then some...  But where exactly would fighting or getting hissy over all of this get you?  What benefit for you and your son?  Because if there's none, other than pride and needing to stamp your foot and try and force someone to do the right thing; walk away and sort something else out...  An inconvenience? Yes...  But life is too damn short to fight over 'unnecessary' stuff, particularly when your normal day to day stuff might be more demanding than for others...  You'll still be back at the drawing board looking for a wee pony for your family to enjoy - and this is a family thing, not all about your son...

Cut your losses, conserve your energy, find another pony to loan at a reasonable cost from reasonable people who will be willing to look at your family, including your son, as potential sharers without prejudice...  Or do a proper loan and take over full care - at that price you could probably get assisted livery of some sort...  Or have your own sharer that would cover the days you're busy...

This pony will not be the only one out there that your lad can develop a connection with - and unfortunately, as another poster pointed out, children (no matter what their medical status) do still need to deal with changes, albeit it is easier for some than others...  Having had a child myself with some interesting complications, I have been there...  Ultimately, there will be a lot less headwork for you in finding a pony than trying to force others to live up to their responsibilities...  Cut your losses, take a deep breath and start looking for another perfect pony who'll help give your family some special times...  That, really, is the important thing here...

Good luck...


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## cokelly (3 June 2012)

Nfp20 I think it's ridiculous and awful how you have been treated on this thread. You are obviously level-headed and intelligent (unlike some posters here) and know what you are talking about.

As regards legal advice I think you are well within your rights to seek it, especially if a contract has been drawn up. However if there is a clause in it which enables the owners to terminate the agreement with no notice, immediately then unfortunately you are unlikely to get very far.

Although pony's owners have been a bit obnoxious with showing up and taking the pony away from you and your son I think the only possible way to resolve this difficulty is to chat with the owners and be ever-so-polite and flexible with them. Explain things in a clear way and that you agreed to such a specific contract because you needed to...state that they agreed to such a contract as well.

It is such a difficult situation for you  It is a shame that there are such people in the horse world who don't have common politeness. 

If the chat with the owners doesn't prove fruitful then it may be your only option to walk away unfortunately. I guess this is just what can happen and the only way to be sure to keep your own routine is to get your own (although this would obviously throw up problems too).

Hope this is all resolved soon and some ignorant posters haven't completely put you off this forum as they almost have me.


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## Parker79 (3 June 2012)

Nfp20 said:



			The personal attacks have really surprised and upset me so much so I am still sitting here wondering why my request has produced so much animosity I have not sought sympathy only advice.  My circumstance may be unique and I have probably shot myself in the foot posting as I have but that does not give anyone the right to be so unkind.

If the vast majority of this thread is truly what horse/pony owners feel about people part loaning or sharing their animals then its no surprise we have been treated the way we have.

A contract is supposed to protect both parties from abuse with clear agreement on the terms and conditions for use.  Before I posted I did a search to find a similar post to mine and only found those who animals had been stolen or abused, you rely on those signed contracts to protect your interests why should I not be able to rely on the very same contract to protect ours?
		
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OP- you might find that the responses stemmed from your 2nd post which insulted all the people who had replied.....people on here do not know you...they can only work off what you write.  I read a number of posts before I replied...when I did I chose to offer advice as I you had already explained that you had been abrubt.

IMO - the way the post reads it implies that you are inflexible and the contract is a contract.....I can see why you feel like this but it probably feels a little abrubt to us people who do not know you.

I chose to write with purely advice...as I get the impression that you are a mum at her wits end! but there are people on here that you offended and unfortunately that does tend to set off a thread in a bad direction.

You are right to be cross about this agreement...you can only walk away now, its sad but the agreement albeit legal will not make for a good relationship between you and the owners.

Please do not assume all horse owners would treat part loaners like this (another reason people are upset with you). I wouldn't and most I know wouldn't either.

There are many nice people looking for sharers....just be careful when you explain your needs to them....horse owning is stressful at times...if you come along with a list of demands it may have put people off....remember your priority is your son...the owners priority is the pony...so you need to meet somewhere in the middle.

Maybe present your issue gently and look for someone understanding....I cannot believe that other people where going to charge you more because your son has autism...thats disgusting.

Hope you find a nice new pony for your son to enjoy.


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## Achinghips (3 June 2012)

Your question relates specifically to the legal aspects of contracts and you are finding it hard to consider other aspects touched on by some members here, which are also highly relevant.

My question is this: Did you get this contract legitamised by a solicitor specialising in equine law, based on the 2006 Animal Welfare Act, under which all equine contracts are legitimised?

Horse contract agreements need to be certified over their legitimacy.

If you or the owner have neglected to do this you have not ensured legal protection for either party.

It is rare, albeit impossible, for you as a loaner/sharer to have drawn up such a contract when you are not the legal owner of the animal and then be able to enforce it.   So, who drew up the contract? You or the owner, and was it legitamised by a solicitor?


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## PolarSkye (3 June 2012)

Nfp20 said:



			I have a loan pony on contract at the moment for my son a couple of days a week which for us is perfect as an ideal starting point as he's a toddler.
		
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Honestly, I think the issue here is that what you have is neither a proper loan nor a share agreement - whatever the contract says - and that's muddying the waters with regards to expectations on both sides.

My understanding of loaning is that you have sole care and "use" of the horse/pony, while as a sharer the primary responsibility of care is still with the owner.  

In this particular circumstance, my advice would be to sit down with the owners over a cup of tea (or a glass of wine) and discuss this openly and honestly.  As it's technically a share rather than a loan arrangement, there does need to be some communication and give-and-take on both sides.  Yes, it's inconsiderate (and borderline rude) of the owners to keep changing the dates you have access to the pony . . . but they may not realize how distressing this is for your son - and, at the end of the day, the little mare is theirs.  I suppose technically the Pony Club Camp (and any other events they want to do with the mare) should have been written into the contract between you . . . but I'm not sure you'll gain much (other than creating ill will in a community which is notoriously small/close-knit) by either threatening or taking legal action to stop them taking her.

In your shoes, I would find another pony and take on a full loan - that way you will have much more "control" and consistency.  I know you feel that this mare is perfect for your son - and that he will be (understandably) disappointed if his relationship with her comes to a close, but there are plenty of other super, safe first ponies - just talk to your local pony club.

Best of luck.

P


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## PolarSkye (3 June 2012)

Nfp20 said:



			works out as £75 per week (£25 per day) so we pay approx £325 per month £975 for 3 months give or take a week or two. 

So its not cheap but its not expensive either given other loans that I saw available.  We also brought hay, feed, replacement buckets, winter rugs, reflocked their saddle but also brought our own fitted tack etc that were not part of the agreement but which I felt was a fair additional contribution.  We don't use their grooming kit I raided my old one and replaced a few of my brushes and kit plus a starter grooming kit for my son.

Obviously riding and safety equipment and insurance is our own responsibility.
		
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You've been had.  I don't pay that much to keep my OWN horse a month.  For that amount of money you can have one on full loan, put it on assisted or part livery and still have change leftover - with sole use!

P


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## Booboos (3 June 2012)

OP I think you need to consider this from a practical angle only and try to remove emotion from the situation:

- the loan is not suited to you, it's best to get out of it. Terminate the contract for breach and ask for your money back. If they refuse consider getting legal advice but it will depend on the cost.

- contact your local RDA. They should be able to help with lessons while your son is looking for another pony and maybe even suggest a suitable pony through word of mouth. 

- be wary of charges. Your son's autism should make no difference to the cost of loaning or part-sharing a pony. He needs a reliable lead rein pony - all toddlers need a reliable lead rein pony, no need to pay more. 

Best of luck


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## TallulahBright (3 June 2012)

I read the  first few pages of this thread yesterday and have just looked at how much you're paying. As someone who works with children, including those with autism, I would say that the best thing you could do is get your own pony. You could easily afford it and the daily routine would be great for your boy. At three I'd be very surprised if he knows the days of the week he's expecting to ride and as a pony/ child bond is very especial, with your own he could build that over years. It would also help him if mum isn't strung out worrying about what's right and just!


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## Achinghips (3 June 2012)

I agree Booboos, but I believe she has taken emotion out of the situation.

What she cannot come to terms with is that she thought she had covered all eventualities by having a contract, which she believed was set in stone ..... she cannot understand why this contract has been broken and feels it is illegal for the contract to be broken by the other party.   She now wants to know about legal redress to ensure it is restated.  

She does not want any problem solving or further discussion about any alternative things to do, now or in the future.  

She is only concerned about the contract - this is all she wants addressed in her original post to the forum.


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## hairycob (3 June 2012)

I think Ladydragon & Polarskye have put what a lot of people have been trying to tell you very well. 
I also suspect a lot of the responses may also have been influenced by a recent mega thread where a poster came on & complained about something that was happening at her yard, the owner of a pony was completely slated by some posters despite others pointing out that we were only hearing one side of the story. The poor owner made a long & detailed post at 4am the day after her pony was pts giving a completely different account. Many of us will be thinking - sounds like this lady is being treated really badly BUT if we heard the owners side what would we think then? Will we be seeing an anguished counter story tomorrow? 
The words you have written have offended people & given an impression that you can be haughty & arrogant. Maybe this is harsh, maybe you are justifiably angry, upset & exhausted but your posts do come across this way & they are the only thing that people on this forum have to make a judgement on. Is it possible that this is what has gone wrong in this relationship. Maybe you have upset the owners of the pony & they don't want to share with you anymore but feel mean taking the pony from your little boy, so they are trying to make you take that decision. If so, it would be cowardly, but if your tone in talking to them is the same as your tone here perhaps it's understandable.
TBH I can't imagine someone charging £75pw or on those terms unless they didn't really want to share.


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## smellsofhorse (3 June 2012)

I've not read all of the thread.

When sharing you need to be more flexible, we all have things going on in.life even if we try to stick to a schedule.

I do think.the owners are being a bit unfair, turning up on your day and taking pony off your son, but why did you let this happen?
You should have said had said sorry we are riding now.
Then to stay and untack pony, why?
Leave it to them.

Pony club, shows and day changes will happen but they should give you a decent amount if notice.

Other children riding on your days shouldn't be a problem but you should have first.choice on time.

I think you need a good chat with the owner.

If things don't change then find another pony.

Have you tried the rda?
Even a normal riding school could be very accomadating if you explain your needs especially during off peak tines.


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## xxMozlarxx (3 June 2012)

HilaryG said:



			Is it just me that finds this a bit unbelievable?

£75 a week and three months in advance for three days use of a LR pony.

I have never seen ponies for part loan advertised for this price (never mind more expensive as the OP states).

If the owners are genuinely charging this sort of money you would think that they would do everything possible to keep the pony on part loan and keep the money coming in.
		
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Absolutely, this isn't real, someone of this supposed intellect who has access to free legal representation yet is prepared to be completely ripped off! :confused


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## billylula (3 June 2012)

That seems hugely expensive. I would buy a pony or full loan a pony and keep it at livery if I were you. Don't bother with legalities it won't get you anywhere.


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## Booboos (3 June 2012)

Achinghips, I see your point and I feel for the OP but she can't enforce the contract in the way she wants because the owners have a termination clause themselves which I assume they will exercise if they become sufficiently annoyed. 

A loan contract is not particularly binding on either party as it can usually be terminated with due notice. If the owners feel they cannot fulfill their part of the deal they will simply take their pony back. Because of this I don't think OP will gain much by persuing the enforcement of the contract. Much better to draw a line under it, get her money back and look for a more suitable alternative - especially in light of the huge amounts of money she is paying!


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## Froddy (3 June 2012)

OP walk away, there will be a pony just as good somewhere else and as has been said before your son will adjust. I know being a Mum myself how much you want to protect your child, even more so him being Autistic, but he's 3 so a change in pony at his age surely wont be that much of upheaval? 

I was gobsmacked when you posted about how much you are paying, £75 for 3 days for a LR pony is preposterous  That alone tells me the ponys owners are royally taking the mickey, regardless of the other actions/equipment, you have taken/provided. 

If it was me in your position no matter how perfect the pony was, the situation isn't, there would be no question IMHO.


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## Queenbee (3 June 2012)

Yes I have read all the posts, has nrp had a sticky deal? Yes, although It doesn't seem like this has always been the case. 
One thing is really annoying me!!!  This is a 'share' not a 'loan'.  Money is changing hands, it is not a loan!!! Someone who can patronise the posters that they 'clearly' don't understand contracts, should perhaps have a clearer understanding of the arrangement she actually has! 

Has op been taken for a ride at £25 a day?! Yes! I used to ask £100 PCM this was for (3 days a week) I think, and I'm sure the costs if keeping a 15.1 tb x are far higher than a little pony. 

But what I need to stress is I really do not like the sharers paddy about a horse that she doesn't own! I agree that it we take what op says at face value, it is a cruel thing to do to a child... Walking up and taking it to ride. But there does have to be flexibility, my mare was used on the shares day by my friends daughter for school show jumping, but then sharer often had my mare on one of my days to go out riding with her friend.

I absolutely stand by what I said earlier and 100 percent agree with black horse regarding ops son.

To me the whole thread  seems a    little off and perhaps a joke, £75  per week, 3 month in advance...  Why the hell would anyone pay  for this when it is cheaper to have  your own and share.  £5 extra per  week because of the autism!!!  £60 per week is still extortion but  who the hell would line the  pockets of people who think that  way? If I were in ops position that would have been where my  contact with the owners ended, I  would have been so offended! I  also find it believeable that the  owners would do something  along the lines of suggest  different days, different ponies,   take away for pc camp, these are  all fair enough... Things change.  But If I we're op and coming on  here for advice then when describing the situation I'd have told everyone about the day the owners turned up and took the pony away so they could ride on my sons day and I was left like a skivvy! But no, op left it until a few pages in (and a load of negative posts) before telling us this??!  

Op would also have us believe that the contract was renewed a couple of weeks ago... No offends op but are you seriously asking everyone on here to believe that you who knew in advance that things were very wrong and not at all suited to you or your son, actually had the stupidity to bind yourself to another 3 month contract?!

No, I think there is a great deal of embellishment in here!!! As an owner do I think that op sounds a nightmare... Damn right! I know sharers have rights, so do owners and this sharer would have been given her marching orders by me I need flexibility, but in return I'd offer the same. As an owner, there is no way I'd be entering into a 3 month notice period with anyone sinner or saint!  Furthermore, I know plenty of children who have been offered last minute places on pony club camp, it may not have been possible for the owner to have given a lot of notice, it also appears that they tried to offer a substitute to get around the issues you complain about... It would appear to me that op is NOT flexible and reading between the lines it is the owners that have tried to be accommodating. I am not supporting them just because they are owners and I agree that they are ripping op off, and if op is to be believed the incident with taking the pony is cruel and out of order, but aside from that I do think that everything about ops attitude is rubbing me up the wrong way, my bull s--t metre is off the scale. I absolutely would not share with a woman like op, that does not make me a bad owner


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## overtherainbow (3 June 2012)

ok unless im being a bit thick here, pony club camp is in the summer holidays- so late July or August, surely telling the OP now is plenty of notice!

And I know it looks like the OP has been treated badly recently, but if the owner requested a change of days first (as implied in the OP), and this was denied, then surely they were likely to stop asking permission and start telling? 

Frankly I can see this from both sides but all its made me conclude is that sharing with young children is a very bad idea!! (and no i dont think the autism would be important in this- most small children who love their ponies would be upset and disappointed to be told they couldnt ride and flexibility is important in a share!)


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## undertheweather (3 June 2012)

I hope to hell that I am never your sharer, queenbee or black_horse.


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## Queenbee (3 June 2012)

Well, don't worry utw, you wouldn't be, although my old sharer is on here... You can always ask her what I'm like, we are still excellent friends!


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## Queenbee (3 June 2012)

Ok bh but whose horse shall we share? Yours or mine? Or shall we share both?  seeing as my girls out of action and Ben is unbroken shall we go with yours? Xx how much you charging per day? I have an ace contract we can use too xx


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## Queenbee (3 June 2012)

Op, whether I believe you or not, whether or not I like your style, and whether I think you are in the wrong or not. Get out of the contract, whatever the case it is null and void and buy your own, you can always loan out or share for a couple of days with someone who suits your needs.


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## Clodagh (3 June 2012)

overtherainbow said:



			ok unless im being a bit thick here, pony club camp is in the summer holidays- so late July or August, surely telling the OP now is plenty of notice!
		
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Round here Junior Camp is half term - as in this week.


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## WelshD (3 June 2012)

It sounds to me Luke you got the pony through the dark, wet expensive months and now it's time for the fun to start again. of course things will only get worse once the summer holidays start

I'd quietly gather your rugs and tack together at home before you speak up 

Then tell the owners that the cash cow is going to pastures new and not to bother calling you when this winter sets in 

It's worth asking for money back as they breached the contract but Having access to free legal advice I am sure you will know whether the contract is solid enough to hold up in the small claims court


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## WelshD (3 June 2012)

Or as you have the tack and your child loves the pony maybe they would sell it? If their child is a bit older and off to camp etc perhaps they'd like a bigger better pony


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## hairycob (3 June 2012)

Now that was a good idea WelshD, but OP if you go that route do make sure you know what an appropriate price would be.


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## Natz88 (3 June 2012)

I finally made it to the end with a headache lol!

OP sorry to hear your situation, but I do think they saw you coming with the amount they are charging I got 3 on DIY for not much more than what your paying a month, I also have 2 sharers that pay £100 each a month & both ride 2/3 days a week. I am not going to get involved with who is right & who is wrong, but personally I would walk away & put it down to experience I know it will be upsetting for your son, but there are plenty of ponies out there or maybe consider buying a pony then you can have you own routine with no interuptions from others. Sorry not much help, but I do hope it gets sorted.


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## Colivet (3 June 2012)

Starzaan said:



			I agree with other posters about your attitude towards the whole thing though. Although these people sound like they've taken advantage of your being somewhat naive and stung you for a lot of money, and they are being slightly unreasonable turning up and expecting to ride on "your days", it is, after all, their pony. I would be fuming if a sharer told me I couldn't take my own horse to camp or a competition - regardless of a contract.
Good luck!
		
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Is it naive to expect that terms of a contract are observed on both sides?  OP appears to have upheld her side of the bargain, while owner seems to believe that agreed dates are theirs to play about with.  I don't think that is SLIGHTLY unreasonable, I think it is simply unacceptable.  As to being fuming about not being able to take "my own horse" to camp - in my view, he is not "my own horse" on the days I have contracted to lease him to someone else - therefore I should be asking permission to change the day, or the favour of letting me take him on that day.  If you, as owner, don't want that, then don't lease him out at all.


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## hairycob (3 June 2012)

The thing is we only have one side of the story. If we heard the owners side they may say that when they negotiated the agreement they made the OP aware that there may be special events such as camp when the pony would not be available, or they may need to be able to alter the days for some other reason, but the OP is refusing. On the other hand they may confirm everything the OP says about them. They may be giving 2 months or 2 days notice of camp. They may or may not recognise the £75pw. We really don't know because we are only hearing one side of the story.
The owners may be complete rotters who are taking a stressed mother of a vulnerable child for a ride. The OP may be a  nightmare sharer that they are trying to get rid of. Most likely the truth lies somewhere in between but we have no idea where. 
I think the only thing that we can all agree on is that, for whatever reason, the arrangement isn't working for the OP.  That any legal action/threats of legal action are likely to achieve the exact opposite of the outcome the OP wants and that the best thing for her to do is walk away and not add to her stress by pursuing such an action.
Ultimately I feel sad that so many have not learned the lessons from the "murder" thread & the 4am response to it.


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## TheoryX1 (3 June 2012)

I have to be honest I havent read all of the posts on here.  However, I am with the vast majority of posters - its not your pony.  I am not a lawyer, but my job does involve a lot of deaings with contract law and yes you have a contract.  However, as you will probably already know you have certain remedies under contract law - restitution, specific performance or damages.  I would hazard a guess that try any of these options, you will find the pony withdrawn, no matter what any judge in any civil court willl order.

Honestly, is it really worth the utter ball ache a court case will bring?  Couple this with the fact that the horse world is a really small one.  You will find yourself unable to have any pony on loan or share locally - word gets around and I for one would not let you near either or my horses if they were suitable for a toddler, which mne are definitely not.  

Having been involved in a major civil law case last year, even though my busines partner and I won it, I would say do you really, honestly want to do this?  Is life not far too short?  Its their pony, they want to take it to PC camp, so let them do it, its only for a few days and it will pas quickly.  I know a contract is a contract, but sometimes commonsense must prevail, and I would think that this must be one of them.


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## Queenbee (3 June 2012)

Black horse, I would sell my soul to sit on your mare  I fell in love with her the moment I saw a picture, in many ways she sounds like my old girl, and it's clear you feel the same way about her as I do ebony... It's a deal, although I reserve the rights to hissy fits, as I'm sure you do  x 

P.s. wasn't she poorly recently or am i mistaken How is she doing now? Back to normal I hope x


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## lhotse (3 June 2012)

Wow, is this still going?
You have all been got by a Bank Holiday troll, and a darn good one at that. It would alomost be believable except for the extortionate cost, which nobody in their right mind would ever pay, especially someone who is from a horsey family so well aware of the costs incured. 
10/10!!!


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## Ladydragon (3 June 2012)

lhotse said:



			Wow, is this still going?
You have all been got by a Bank Holiday troll, and a darn good one at that. It would alomost be believable except for the extortionate cost, which nobody in their right mind would ever pay, especially someone who is from a horsey family so well aware of the costs incured. 
10/10!!!
		
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Well...if nobody posted in reply to a potential troll - it would be very quiet around here...  Plus, many read and don't post and if a reader can muddle through the mayhem and find some genuine information that might help them, it's worth the time taken to contribute IMO...


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## cptrayes (3 June 2012)

lhotse said:



			Wow, is this still going?
You have all been got by a Bank Holiday troll, and a darn good one at that. It would alomost be believable except for the extortionate cost, which nobody in their right mind would ever pay, especially someone who is from a horsey family so well aware of the costs incured. 
10/10!!!
		
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How terribly judgemental  !

But perhaps we might ask for an explanation of why this poster was seeking a lead rein pony on loan/contract hire for two years, putting her son at under one year old when she started that search?


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## lhotse (3 June 2012)

I see our minds are thinking alike!!


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## Star_Chaser (3 June 2012)

Achinghips said:



			Your question relates specifically to the legal aspects of contracts and you are finding it hard to consider other aspects touched on by some members here, which are also highly relevant.

My question is this: Did you get this contract legitamised by a solicitor specialising in equine law, based on the 2006 Animal Welfare Act, under which all equine contracts are legitimised?

Horse contract agreements need to be certified over their legitimacy.

If you or the owner have neglected to do this you have not ensured legal protection for either party.

It is rare, albeit impossible, for you as a loaner/sharer to have drawn up such a contract when you are not the legal owner of the animal and then be able to enforce it.   So, who drew up the contract? You or the owner, and was it legitamised by a solicitor?
		
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This is fair comment:

The contract was drawn up by the owner of the pony it was countersigned by myself on behalf of my son and myself and a third party person, a copy was given to (as I do with all mine and my husbands contracts I might add) to our solicitor (family member) who checked it over and said it was reasonable and covered the basics.  

There is a clear clause on use which includes that only my child may ride - no visiting friends or family members and a clause on termination - immediate is only available to the owner if they feel that the pony is being ill treated or if we are incapable of her care.  

We always take photos before and after she is groomed and one of the day which my son and I put into our picture diary when we get home as well as sharing with my dad and my mother in law before our weekly call.   This does offer us some record.  

My husband and I tried a final attempt at a polite conversation this morning to try and resolve our situation and then we terminated our contract giving the agreed notice.  Needless to say I very much doubt I will be seeing the money that i have paid in advance and they had the audacity to quote the very same contract I was asking them to adhere to with reasonable notice for any changes.  

Normally I wouldn't bother with forums to ask about these sort of things I would have a chat with my dad but he is unavailable at the moment i can be a little chuck the baby out with the bathwater and he usually gives me good advice on dealing with people who are taking the proverbial.  

Sad to say this forum has been a dreadful experience.  I came on today to delete my account but felt that the above at least deserved a response.  Thank you to all those that have give advice it is appreciated be it for or against my original question.  

To those that make accusation of being Trolls to new people can I remind you that once upon time you were new.


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## jrp204 (3 June 2012)

I'm glad you have made a decision, you have plenty of options that will cost you nowhere near as much. Give the forum a chance, there is a lot of good, sound advice on here alongside quite a bit of entertainment! I think the 'troll' thing is thrown around quite a lot especially with a new user, unfortunately your first few posts did get a few backs up, once you explained the situation a lot of people were on your side. 
Good luck with finding another pony.


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## jroz (3 June 2012)

Nfp20 said:



			Riding lessons are great thank you for suggesting but they do not teach care skills and with a child with Autism they are not always easily accepting of strangers or busy yards.  As I said this situation was ideal for us and I have to say I thought it too good to be true when I found her and the set up available.
		
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Why not get your son enrolled in a therapeutic riding program? They work with children and adults with special needs. http://www.pathintl.org/


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## Amos (3 June 2012)

I haven't had a chance to read everything  but I think the OP has EVERY right to be annoyed. It is an agreement and you donb't put a contract in place if you are not going to abide by it. Sadly, though OP if they are not going to be reasonable about it and stick to it - you are better away from the situation. Give your notice and move on or (and I'm not really for this but,) stop your payments and go. If they have broken the agreement, they can't come back at you for doing the same. Best of luck. 




Nfp20 said:



			This is fair comment:


The contract was drawn up by the owner of the pony it was countersigned by myself on behalf of my son and myself and a third party person, a copy was given to (as I do with all mine and my husbands contracts I might add) to our solicitor (family member) who checked it over and said it was reasonable and covered the basics.  

There is a clear clause on use which includes that only my child may ride - no visiting friends or family members and a clause on termination - immediate is only available to the owner if they feel that the pony is being ill treated or if we are incapable of her care.  

We always take photos before and after she is groomed and one of the day which my son and I put into our picture diary when we get home as well as sharing with my dad and my mother in law before our weekly call.   This does offer us some record.  

My husband and I tried a final attempt at a polite conversation this morning to try and resolve our situation and then we terminated our contract giving the agreed notice.  Needless to say I very much doubt I will be seeing the money that i have paid in advance and they had the audacity to quote the very same contract I was asking them to adhere to with reasonable notice for any changes.  

Normally I wouldn't bother with forums to ask about these sort of things I would have a chat with my dad but he is unavailable at the moment i can be a little chuck the baby out with the bathwater and he usually gives me good advice on dealing with people who are taking the proverbial.  

Sad to say this forum has been a dreadful experience.  I came on today to delete my account but felt that the above at least deserved a response.  Thank you to all those that have give advice it is appreciated be it for or against my original question.  

To those that make accusation of being Trolls to new people can I remind you that once upon time you were new.
		
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## Ladydragon (3 June 2012)

Nfp20 said:



			Sad to say this forum has been a dreadful experience.  I came on today to delete my account but felt that the above at least deserved a response.  Thank you to all those that have give advice it is appreciated be it for or against my original question.  

To those that make accusation of being Trolls to new people can I remind you that once upon time you were new.
		
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Actually, I wouldn't agree that it's been dreadful... You've received some extremely negative comments but these have been balanced with equally strong support for your position and a host of middle ground comments...  Given the anonymity lack of knowledge of the overall situation/both sides; I think it's been fairly well balanced...

As for the troll spotting...  It's a fairly regular occurrence...  Sometimes it's right and sometimes it's incorrect - and most times, no one except the OP will ever know for sure...   That doesn't mean you can't pick through the thread and take advantage of some of the support and advice offered if you choose... The owners of the pony will be hard put to find another sharer in quite such a profitable arrangement...


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## Star_Chaser (3 June 2012)

cptrayes said:



			How terribly judgemental  !

But perhaps we might ask for an explanation of why this poster was seeking a lead rein pony on loan/contract hire for two years, putting her son at under one year old when she started that search?
		
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Not that it is anyones business  but because:

1) My husbands family pony he learnt to ride on died, last of our family ponies died a couple of years before that, the small paddock at my folks has been turned to lawn with a football pitch for my brother (hates horses) as the rest of us have flown the coop and my dad feels he is too old to have another himself so none left in the family to use.

2) I enjoy being around the horses myself and gained more than a bit of weight during my pregnancy, this is a nice way to get back into it after a long break - it was that or the gym membership my husband brought me for christmas 

Do people not pop their children on their horses backs as soon as they can hold up their head anymore??  I suppose health and safety gone mad.  My son was around 6 months when he had his first little sit and plod around the garden. 

Next you'll be questioning my husbands age in case he is too old to have learnt on a pony that was still alive when my son was under a year  Perhaps you would like the size of my feet? or the low down on something else trivial that does not meet the criteria of my original question??  Sorry to be rude but enough is enough.


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## DragonSlayer (3 June 2012)

flying solo said:



			Thank god you don't share my daughters pony! You would've had your notice as soon as you started your moaning like a school child! Grow up!

Pony is possibly on PART SHARE so it gets exercise and attention on days the OWNER doesn't/can't make it to the yard. With holidays etc these are usually flexible and SHARERS (that would be you!) are usually supposed to be flexible just as the owner would be if you were to go anywhere! 

You sound like a nightmare and I'd have you off my yard ASAP.
		
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Oh yawn....

OP has a VERY valid point. They have made a contract, and if they are paying something towards the cost, then a little consideration from the owners goes along way.

I doubt very much the OP would WANT to be on your yard the way you are yelling....


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## pookie (3 June 2012)

I'm disappointed to find no treasure at the end of this thread... 

OP, I'd  suggest you DON'T get your own pony if you're concerned about your son's routine. There're plenty of reasons why a horse or pony may be unable to ride on any given day, so (as others have suggested) the RDA is probably a better bet. He could bond with two or three different ponies and have a better chance of being able to ride whenever you want him to.

You may have had a difficult time of things on this thread but your first post (the one people form their opinions on the back of) was desperately lacking in critical bits of the story - the amount of money you're paying and the behaviour of the owners in riding when your toddler is about to get on. Once those details were added people became more sympathetic, although if I were you those missing details would've been the FIRST things I mentioned. I still can't quite figure out why you think £300+ PCM is reasonable, particularly as you seem to come from a horsey family.


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## DragonSlayer (3 June 2012)

Nfp20 said:



			Not that it is anyones business  but because:

1) My husbands family pony he learnt to ride on died, last of our family ponies died a couple of years before that, the small paddock at my folks has been turned to lawn with a football pitch for my brother (hates horses) as the rest of us have flown the coop and my dad feels he is too old to have another himself so none left in the family to use.

2) I enjoy being around the horses myself and gained more than a bit of weight during my pregnancy, this is a nice way to get back into it after a long break - it was that or the gym membership my husband brought me for christmas 

Do people not pop their children on their horses backs as soon as they can hold up their head anymore??  I suppose health and safety gone mad.  My son was around 6 months when he had his first little sit and plod around the garden. 

Next you'll be questioning my husbands age in case he is too old to have learnt on a pony that was still alive when my son was under a year  Perhaps you would like the size of my feet? or the low down on something else trivial that does not meet the criteria of my original question??  Sorry to be rude but enough is enough.
		
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We aren't all horrid here. I will converse with you as believing what you say is true until proven otherwise. 

Unfortunately there are many here who are so far up themselves they think they have the right to scream 'TROLL!' the moment someone new arrives.

I feel for you, and I also believe the fact what you have had to pay, yes...many people take the piss, not only in the horse world, but in every walk of life.

I don't understand how people can be horrid to each other, we should have stayed swinging in trees and picking fleas off each other, I feel the human race has evolved too much for it's own good.

You need to either take a pony on full loan or buy one. Loans can go wrong as well.

Good luck and don't let the negativity put you off.


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## Parker79 (3 June 2012)

OP - there have been many positive replies...you do not seem to have noticed those?


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## Star_Chaser (3 June 2012)

I do.. have said thank you and replied to those that required reasonable additional information.

Someone has very kindly sent me the following link privately and I have asked them to share but its such a good one I am going to post it myself http://www.circlesnetwork.org.uk/index.asp?slevel=0z128z152&parent_id=152

I won't be taking a loan again.  I think this experience if nothing else has just reaffirmed my belief that there is nothing like your own and my husband is now also convinced,


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## pookie (3 June 2012)

Nfp20 said:



			I won't be taking a loan again.  I think this experience if nothing else has just reaffirmed my belief that there is nothing like your own and my husband is now also convinced,
		
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How will you cope if and WHEN your own can't be ridden?


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## cptrayes (3 June 2012)

I still can't square the money on this one. Does anyone, not including the poster who has made her situation clear, know of any hire agreements that are being advertised, or have been taken up by anyone else, at £25 per day? I've looked on loan sites and £25 per week for 3 days seems more like the norm and I can't find anything anywhere near to what the OP is paying for a lead rein pony. Is she the only person in the country paying that amount of money to hire a pony for 3 days or are there other owners taking the mickey out of gullible horse lovers that way?


OP the best way you can demonstrate that you are not a troll is to stay around and post on other topics. You should find it quite fun, irrespective of whether you care or not that people believe that you were not trolling.


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## horsesatemymoney (3 June 2012)

Frumpoon said:



			Queenbee and Blackhorse - aren't you two just a little ray of sunshine.....next time either of you is here whinging for sympathy about having a broken horse or being a poor little disabled rider you might remember how unkind you were to this poster....courtesy doesn't only go one way....
		
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Wow, I don't usually get involved with 'arguments,' and aside from the thread and who has said what, unkind or otherwise,Frumpoon I think the comment that you made about 'being a poor disabled rider' was a bit below the belt, I think Blackhorse was actually trying to empathise with the OP's situation.


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## Theocat (3 June 2012)

I can't believe some of the replies on here.

1) The OP has spent considerable time finding a loan that's right for her and her son.
2) She finds it, and takes the time to explain her circumstances fully, agrees to a contract (drawn up by the owners!) and effectively pays considerably over the odds for the benefits of a fixed contract.
3) She freely admits that with sufficient notice she is happy to accommodate reasonable demands.
4) The owners have already demonstrated that they make unreasonable demands without notice.
5) The OP asks for advice about turning to the law for support in upholding the contract (which is, after all, a legal document).

And she gets attacked for it!!!

OP, you're better off out of it.  For some reason, much of the horse world (not all of it, there are a lot of honourable exceptions on this thread, thankfully) somehow seem to think that contracts - and manners - don't "count" when a horse is involved.  You signed an agreement.  I cannot see that you are in the wrong in any way. In any normal sphere, that would hold.  However, given the sums, and the prevailing attitude in the horse world, the best you can do is walk away.

I hope all of you who have been critical never get stung by a contract - whether it's a sale or purchase, a livery owner or livery who fails to stick to Ts & Cs, a riding instructor who you discover too late doesn't have insurance...

I hope the OP finds a lovely pony for her son, and that he continues to find joy in horses.


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## DragonSlayer (3 June 2012)

Theocat said:



			I can't believe some of the replies on here.

1) The OP has spent considerable time finding a loan that's right for her and her son.
2) She finds it, and takes the time to explain her circumstances fully, agrees to a contract (drawn up by the owners!) and effectively pays considerably over the odds for the benefits of a fixed contract.
3) She freely admits that with sufficient notice she is happy to accommodate reasonable demands.
4) The owners have already demonstrated that they make unreasonable demands without notice.
5) The OP asks for advice about turning to the law for support in upholding the contract (which is, after all, a legal document).

And she gets attacked for it!!!

OP, you're better off out of it.  For some reason, much of the horse world (not all of it, there are a lot of honourable exceptions on this thread, thankfully) somehow seem to think that contracts - and manners - don't "count" when a horse is involved.  You signed an agreement.  I cannot see that you are in the wrong in any way. In any normal sphere, that would hold.  However, given the sums, and the prevailing attitude in the horse world, the best you can do is walk away.

I hope all of you who have been critical never get stung by a contract - whether it's a sale or purchase, a livery owner or livery who fails to stick to Ts & Cs, a riding instructor who you discover too late doesn't have insurance...

I hope the OP finds a lovely pony for her son, and that he continues to find joy in horses.
		
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Very well put.


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## Ranyhyn (3 June 2012)

Contract or no contract, I would never have done (as a decent human being) what you have said they have done to you and your son.
Obviously as always we only have one side of the story, but personally when I have shared my horse I have always tried to be as helpful, easy going and fair as possible to my shares.  I think if they used the forum they would agree too.  After all they helped me, they LOVED my horse and bought him gifts etc.  Being fair and kind to them was the least I could do!

It would take something HuGE for me to pull the "well its MY horse" card, so I don't really agree with that.  When you share, you do just that and notwithstanding welfare issues, it shouldn't be down to the owner to "trump" the sharer when they want something.  Clearly people like that haven't ever understood the concept of sharing...


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## Rowreach (4 June 2012)

Nfp20 said:



			I do.. have said thank you and replied to those that required reasonable additional information.

Someone has very kindly sent me the following link privately and I have asked them to share but its such a good one I am going to post it myself http://www.circlesnetwork.org.uk/index.asp?slevel=0z128z152&parent_id=152

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Sorry OP only just caught up.  The Circles Network "Taking the Reins" project is invaluable for children and young people with many issues, including autism, ADHD etc etc, or just those from disadvantaged backgrounds, and if anyone else is in the same position as the OP then I would urge you to have a look at the project.

It is entirely different to the RDA - not saying better, but differently aimed.

FWIW I think that this thread sums up for me what is worst about HHO, which is why I didn't post before but contacted the OP privately.  I hope she is not totally put off HHO - it's an invaluable resource and a lot of you who have been thoroughly unpleasant on this thread have yourselves had need of advice and support in the past, and have received it, though seem to have forgotten that fact very quickly.


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## Queenofdiamonds (4 June 2012)

I have to admit, I started out reading this thread thinking you were being stroppy and childish - The owners child taking the pony away for a week seems fair enough, We're all human, Maybe they miscalculated the dates - I've done this myself before and ended up with concert tickets thinking the date was for a weekend my daughter was with her father. No biggie.

But seeing the amount they are charging you and the fact you have paid 3 months in advance, i am actually sat with my mouth open. 

They are taking the piss. I have had my own horses on livery yards and not spent £75 per week on them, And i'm talking larger ponies in serious work not just tots pottering around on them and a weeks pony club in the summer.

I would demand the money back, And buy a nice little pony for your lad and get a sharer if i were you.


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## Queenofdiamonds (4 June 2012)

Also, My daughter wears cochlear implants. They are an extremely expensive piece of equipment. If they became damaged i could be in the ***** big time, Yet i have never been told by ANYONE that i should have to pay more to cover this for any type of activity. I don't see why autism would warrant an increase in financial contribution.


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## jendie (4 June 2012)

Good grief. Haven't read every post but the bit that said they were charging you extra because your son is autistic made my blood boil !! Get proper legal advice. If they have broken the contract they will have to pay the penalties, and I hope that consists of a full refund of all you have paid out so far.

And then I'd either buy a pony for your son or get one on full loan. There are some really super ponies out there that are desperate for homes. The right one will be hard to find but it will be worth the wait.Good luck.


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## mbf938 (27 August 2012)

I know that this was posted a couple of months ago, but I hope everything has worked out for you, Horse Loaner. I'm disappointed that the owners of the pony that you are sharing have done this, and yes it is a breach of contract, but sadly, there are many owners out there that don't see a problem with changing days without notice. I ended a loan agreement on this very basis in the past as the owner would use the pony on my days. 

I am now currently an owner that shares/part loans my pony for half the week and I drew up a specific contract detailing days etc. I would never dream of using the pony on my sharer's days without prior permission and plenty of notice. As far as I am concerned, he is their pony on their days and I would expect them to act upon the contract if I tried to use him on their days. If we wish to change days, we do so by mutual agreement in writing. This makes the agreement fair to both parties.  If I ever want to take my pony to a show on one of my sharer's days, I always offer a different day of that week in return and if they say no, then I don't take him. That's the whole point of having a contract in these situations - to protect both parties. 

However, the problem as I see it is that presumably there is a clause that allows either side to end the contract early? If so, the owners could just give you notice if you try to enforce the contract for specific performance and there is nothing to stop them from doing so. You may be able to claim damages or get a refund on your money, but you may still lose the pony and it seems the continued use of the pony is what you would like as an outcome. 

I would write a letter to the owners detailing your concerns and the effect it is having on your child - I wouldn't threaten legal action just yet, but point out that this is what the contract says and that you would like to reach a solution. 

I hope that you have/do find a good solution. It's a real shame that some owners feel that because the horse is in their name that sharers don't have a right to what they are paying for.


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## DipseyDeb (27 August 2012)

horseloaner said:



			works out as £75 per week (£25 per day) so we pay approx £325 per month £975 for 3 months give or take a week or two. 

So its not cheap but its not expensive either given other loans that I saw available.  We also brought hay, feed, replacement buckets, winter rugs, reflocked their saddle but also brought our own fitted tack etc that were not part of the agreement but which I felt was a fair additional contribution.  We don't use their grooming kit I raided my old one and replaced a few of my brushes and kit plus a starter grooming kit for my son.

Obviously riding and safety equipment and insurance is our own responsibility.
		
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My god, they saw you coming!!!!  I would think you are probably paying their livery in total, they are on to a winner!!  As it's already been said, you could more than pay for DIY livery with that amount, and then find a sharer of your own!  I would be terminating forth with!! Just for comparison, I pay £60 part livery for my 15.2 horse each week.


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## moosea (27 August 2012)

I'm sorry OP - haven't read all of the posts here.

Are these maggots whom you entered into a contract with really charging you extra because your son has a disability?

If so I'd be onto the equalities commission like a shot.


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## natalia (28 August 2012)

The only thing I can think of is ponies insurance is a lot higher due to disabled rider? I think some insurance companies do ask?


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## pip6 (28 August 2012)

I know how you feel. I started (full) loaning a horse who had been left in a field for 2 years. I did all the slow work to build her up again, to arrive one saturday to find her covered in dried sweat. I contacted owner, who said her ex had taken her out for hack, meeting his new girlfriend in local woods so they could ride together. I was just told I'd have to cope with it, & suddenly I couldn't ride in the mornings at weekends. In reality, she would get so sweaty & was worried to ride her in the afternoon as she was 19 & had obviously worked hard already that day. This went on for 6 weeks, then suddenly she wasn't sweaty anymore. Apparently she had become too lively for ex, so he had stopped riding her & never did again.

I solved it by saving up, & when owner was made redundant bought her (£400). I cost me no more than I was paying to loan her. No worries about anyone else riding, I had full control over what she did.

On what you are paying, I would suggest look for a pony to buy (or make them an offer in the middle of winter when they don't want the hassle or to ride). When you have one take on a prt-loaner. That way you will have control over everything, & be sure your son gets to ride his pony. If he decides it isn't for him, you will always be able to sell pony on. Maybe contact RDA or riding school & see if they have an oldie needing semi-retirement (lead rein is hardly 'work' for pony). My girl was 21 when I bought her, & we had a fab time. She semi-retired aged 27, hacked out for another year & I lost her aged 29. I would buy her again, she was a diamond.


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## peaceandquiet1 (28 August 2012)

Op haven't had time to read the full thread, but my sympathies lie with you, you do sound a formal kind of person but there is nothing wrong with that, and if you have a contract I think you should be both sticking to it. If the owners want to use the pony for Camp etc. that should be built in otherwise they are taking the absolute p!

Loans shares etc. only work if the goalposts don't keep changing. Also at that price I would be buying my own. It's the only way to keep control and avoid this kind of thing.


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