# Metacam vs Antibiotics - URGENT help needed please



## Delta99 (1 January 2011)

My poor old GSD is not doing well at all at the moment! Rushed to vets last night with what looked like bloat to me, but vet said isn't but liver is enlarged.

Gave antibiotics and painkillers and Sarge was like a zombie all night, just standing in the kitchen, not moving or lying down.

Bit brighter now that all medication has worn off. Went back to vet earlier and vet gave us Metacam and antibiotics but didn't want to make a decision what to give Sarge! (normally see a different vet in the practice but of course at the moment it's whoever's on call!)

Didn't think that the antibiotics did anything last night... but there's so many side effects for Metacam, one of them being liver failure!

Really don't know what to do!

My feeling is give the antibiotics initially and see if it helps but poor Sarge is so uncomfortable...


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## Sandstone1 (1 January 2011)

Did the vet not say if he could have both? antibiotics can take a little while to work. metacam is a painkiller and does have some side effects but it is important your dog is not in pain.
As far as I am aware you can give both together, its steriods you should not give with metacam etc.
I dont want to worry you but I would ring your vet for advice as older gsds can be prone to things like spleen tumors etc which need sorting asap. I really would ring vet asap.


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## MurphysMinder (1 January 2011)

The antibiotics will take time to work, so doubt you would see an improvement yet.  Metacam does have side effects but is generally one of the safer nsaids, has he been on it for a long time?  I have had dogs on it for long periods with no problems.  I suggest you phone the vet again and speak to them, it doesn't sound as if that was a typical reaction to the drugs overnight.


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## Delta99 (1 January 2011)

Vet seemed to say to give either Metacam as a painkiller, or antibiotics to treat potential infection - he did a bloodtest last night and the white cell count was very low.

He also did a scan, I'm guessing any tumors would have shown on that?

Useless vet basically, telling me it could be this, or maybe it's that and here's a load of medication, you decide what to give your dog... so, don't see any point in ringing him again for more vague information.
Unfortunately the vet I trust isn't on until Monday!

Have given some antibiotics for the moment...


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## Sandstone1 (1 January 2011)

MurphysMinder said:



			The antibiotics will take time to work, so doubt you would see an improvement yet.  Metacam does have side effects but is generally one of the safer nsaids, has he been on it for a long time?  I have had dogs on it for long periods with no problems.  I suggest you phone the vet again and speak to them, it doesn't sound as if that was a typical reaction to the drugs overnight.
		
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I agree with this, Ive also had dogs on metacam long term with no probs. I have also had a gsd who had a spleen tumor which the vet missed which makes me a bit paroniod about it. Not saying your dog has this but I would ring vet again.


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## MurphysMinder (1 January 2011)

You can give anti b's and metacam together, I have done so with no ill effects.  I would treat with both, presumably the medication will have a printed label from the vets saying dosage, follow these instructions exactly and you should be fine.


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## Sandstone1 (1 January 2011)

You should be able to give both together, Its important your dog is not in pain. 
Strange that the vet left it up to you what to give, sounds like an infection of some kind although my dog had bloods done when she had a tumor and it just showed she was anemic (sp) so they dont always show up but would have thought it would show up on scans etc so hopefully not a tumor.
I would give the meds as directed and ring vet if any change for the worse.
Hope he improves soon.


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## mystiandsunny (1 January 2011)

Again, you can give both - my horse has just been on both (in fact 2 types of antibiotics + Metacam) for an injury.  If it helps, when OH had 'flu and his kidneys were hurting, he wasn't allowed ANY painkillers at all, so if in any doubt that it's the liver, just antibiotics I guess.


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## EAST KENT (1 January 2011)

A low white cell count means there is no infection,so there is pain for some other reason,and that needs identifying pronto.


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## Sandstone1 (1 January 2011)

EAST KENT said:



			A low white cell count means there is no infection,so there is pain for some other reason,and that needs identifying pronto.
		
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I think you are right, just thought as vet gave anti biotics he must have thought an infection?
After the experience with my GSD I would want an answer asap.


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## EAST KENT (1 January 2011)

More a case of "oh well I`ll give it painkiller and anti-bi`s to cover all options till Tuesday" course of action.Most times it works..but not this time,so vet is going to have to admit dog and earn his locum fee.


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## Delta99 (1 January 2011)

EAST KENT said:



			A low white cell count means there is no infection,so there is pain for some other reason,and that needs identifying pronto.
		
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Or it could mean that the white cells have been used to fight the infection and the body has not replenished them yet which the vet seemed to think is the case.

Sarge is a bit more settled at the moment and at least lying down but I think I will give him some Metacam as well once he gets up..

Thanks a lot for the advice, will keep you posted with any developments.


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## Sandstone1 (1 January 2011)

The syptoms with my old girl were just a bit off her food and not herself for a few days, took her to vet who just said an infection and gave anti biotics and painkillers and said see how it goes. Didnt improve and got a swollen tummy took back to vet two days later and told to carry on with treatment.
I just knew something was wrong so took her back to a different vet who did bloods which showed anemia, he did xrays which showed a large tumor on spleen. She was operated on but died three days later.
I hope your dog improves but if you feel somethings wrong it pays to get a differant vet.
I didnt act on my gut feeling quick enough with my old girl and will always regret it. you know your dog better than anyone and my advice would be if your not happy get him back to the vet. 

Your post just reminds me of my dog and I really hope your dog improves. My experience taught me to trust your gut feelings. Vets dont always know best.


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## EAST KENT (1 January 2011)

Always better to do a bit of kickarse and make the locum work for you..and that is what he is paid to do..work FOR YOU!!


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## NeverSayNever (1 January 2011)

the title of this thread confused me...  they are totally different drugs that do different things, not a case of one or the other. Yes Metacam has side effects but they tend to be from long term use.  In an older dog, just get it in him and make him comfortable, its a pain killer! As for the antibiotics, it will take a couple of days for them to kick in (if there is infection) but its important you give them as directed and complete the course.

If it makes you feel any better my vet gives me a stock of metacam to keep at home incase my 6 year old BC has trouble with his back as he has long-term nerve damage and can stiffen up, and also for my almost 15 year old labrador, to give as when I see fit.


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## Delta99 (1 January 2011)

itsmylife said:



			I hope your dog improves but if you feel somethings wrong it pays to get a differant vet.
I didnt act on my gut feeling quick enough with my old girl and will always regret it. you know your dog better than anyone and my advice would be if your not happy get him back to the vet. 

Your post just reminds me of my dog and I really hope your dog improves. My experience taught me to trust your gut feelings. Vets dont always know best.
		
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Yeah, I know exactly what you mean, my last dog was at the vets at least once every 3 months for serious vomitting, diarrhea etc and they just kept giving her antibiotics, never suggested a blood test or any other test... Thought about going to another vet but never did. She died at 2 1/2 with complete liver failure when all the symptoms had been there all along!

Thats why I'm really fussy about which vet we see now... the sad thing is Sarge was diagnosed with CDRM just 3 days ago  - by competent vet who thought it's probably only about 6 months before we need to make a decision.
That's why I'm reluctant to pump him full of medication and of course the abdominal pain has aggravated the backend, he drags his legs much worse now and stands with his paws 'curled up' so I'm really concerned that I'm just prolonging things... 

Ooh, this kind of thing can really put you off having animals in the first place, it's just too painful!


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## Sandstone1 (1 January 2011)

The thing is its really quality of life. If he needs the painkiller he should have it.
A few weeks or months of pain free happy life v a year of life full of pain.
I know which I would choose.
If hes at the stage of needing the metacam what ever the side effects i would give it to him. 
What ever time he has left should be as comfortable as possible. I really would not worry about any long term side effects at this stage.


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## CorvusCorax (1 January 2011)

itsmylife said:



			The syptoms with my old girl were just a bit off her food and not herself for a few days, took her to vet who just said an infection and gave anti biotics and painkillers and said see how it goes. Didnt improve and got a swollen tummy took back to vet two days later and told to carry on with treatment.
I just knew something was wrong so took her back to a different vet who did bloods which showed anemia, he did xrays which showed a large tumor on spleen. She was operated on but died three days later.
I hope your dog improves but if you feel somethings wrong it pays to get a differant vet.
I didnt act on my gut feeling quick enough with my old girl and will always regret it. you know your dog better than anyone and my advice would be if your not happy get him back to the vet. 

Your post just reminds me of my dog and I really hope your dog improves. My experience taught me to trust your gut feelings. Vets dont always know best.
		
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Itsmylife, that is EXACTLY what happened to our old GSD bitch at ten years old, she went down like a stone, so sudden, without as much as a grey whisker, it was such a shock.

OP - I used to smile and nod at the vet, even if I didn't really understand what they were talking about - having lost one dog and with another having gone through great discomfort because I wouldn't push, push, push, I'm a hanger on the phone and a knock-the-door down type customer and sure I might be incredibly annoying, but I'll do it for the dog.
I did put my money where my mouth was and changed practises and it has made my dog's life so much better and it is worth all the extra money and mileage.


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## GinaGem (1 January 2011)

Can't help with what's wrong I'm afraid but just wanted to say my dog is on both Metacam and Noroclav at the moment.  Firstly supplied by an emergency vets Saturday and then again by my own vets Monday so should be fine.  I might be wrong but i think Metacam is an anti inflammatory as well as a pain killer so maybe that is why it was given?


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## Delta99 (1 January 2011)

thank you all so much for your advice.

Sadly, Sarge passed away about 3 o'clock. At least he didn't suffer very long and he died naturally at home in his daddy's arms which is what I wanted for him...

I don't think there was much anyone could have done for him, I suspect the liver had been going for some time, even though there had been no obvious signs, and possibly the vaccination 3 days ago was too much (or maybe it had nothing to do with it...)

He had a lovely life and he'll always be remembered.


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## CorvusCorax (1 January 2011)

So sorry to hear this x

If it's any consolation, we had no idea at all that N was so poorly, up until a few days before she died, she was still doing ten mile walks and was very happy - the tumour she had was the size of a football (she was deep in the chest and dare I say, a bit spoiled and tubby ) and it was literally sucking all the life out of her, but we had no idea as there were no outward signs until it was too late.

How comforting that he was with you, his family, at the end and you knew that there was something up so he didn't suffer x


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## Sandstone1 (1 January 2011)

Im very sorry to hear this. At least he was at home with his family. Very Sorry.


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## GinaGem (1 January 2011)

Really sorry to hear that. RIP Sarge. xxx


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