# Pigs and Horses - Fatal Combination?



## Melms92 (1 March 2014)

What are people's experiences of horses and pigs? I've just recently got a new pony who is terrified of them, my other pony isn't at all bothered by them! Does anyone know of any effective ways to desensitise horses to them? Moving yards isn't an option!


----------



## Lolo (1 March 2014)

Exposure, and turning the reaction into a positive one- so not teaching them to shut down, but taking the negative reaction and channelling it into something positive. I'm explaining very badly, but I saw F15's posts about their dressage horse so did a load of procrastinating and read up about it. 

My old boy hated pigs. The YO's daughter got 3 pot bellied pigs and they ran out of a culvert once to meet our horses. Literally the only time my horse had ever turned tail and run before- he was a proper stand and shout type!


----------



## MyBoyChe (1 March 2014)

Im not sure desensitising works with pigs I think its just in a horses genetic makeup to be scared of pigs.  My YO had 2 pigs to stay for about 2 months they were in the next door field to my TB but well fenced n and never escaped.  He was absolutely fine whilst he was turned out next door to them, I even have a pic somewhere of him sniffing them though the fence...but...the minute I caught him and led him away he completely flipped to the point of being dangerous.  He wouldnt lead, span and reared on the end of the leadrope, wouldnt stand still in the yard and was completely unmanagable   I begged the yo to send the pigs away but she didnt believe what I was saying, said it wasnt the pigs fault.  Any way, they left after about 2 months and almost overnight Che wentback to horizontally chilled.  I firmly believe that whilst he knew he could get away from them he was relatively OK, the minute I had him caught, he became terrified in case I couldnt protect him and the pigs got him!  My friend had a just foaled mare in the next field across from me and she was absolutely manic whenever she caught sight or smell of the pigs, her instinct to protect her foal went into overdrive.  Ill be interested to see if anyone has any ideas for completely pig proofing a horse that has been previously scared of them.


----------



## Janee (1 March 2014)

Interesting, I could do with some tips.  We pass a field with pigs on one of our rides, one of the horses starts to shake as we approach and the bold "I will go first anywhere" pony hesitates and will only pass on the other side of the road.  We have been going passed this field for at least 18 months and not improving yet!


----------



## kassieg (1 March 2014)

Mine hates sheep we go past the sheep field every weekend when we hack but she still does "prancy warmblood trot" past them!  

The eventers used to hate pigs... they started oinking & walking towards the fence once & my life flashed before my eyes !!&#128513;


----------



## Shay (1 March 2014)

There is something genetic about horses and pigs - probably related to wild boar which are really dangerous.  But I'm not sure you can truly de-sensitize them.  My YO was given a pair of Kune Kune pigs as a present (!)  They were on yard about a week before going back to the breeder.  Even the most laid back and calm horses were abjectly terrified of them.  With over 30 horses on yard I can't think of a single one, including my ultra laid back cob, who wasn't deeply distressed.  Sorry - if you have a pig hater I suspect you're stuck with it.


----------



## Kat (1 March 2014)

I occasionally hack past pigs,  my horse, and two riding companions are fine about it. The worst reaction we had was when three large pigs ran towards us squealing. The horses turned to face them and snorted,  they felt ready to run but behaved. When the pigs ignore the horses the horses ignore the pigs. 

Just keep hacking sensibly and calmly past and it will get better.  The horse is allowed to be scared but not allowed to be stupid.  You are not allowed to be scared - you have to be brave and confident for your horse.


----------



## hobo (1 March 2014)

You can de-sensitize horses to pigs. I kept my first 2 horses on a pig farm 2000 pigs. My horse I bred used to lean over the fence and lick the back of some old sows in the field next door. It is about seeing them everyday and hopefully if one of your is not bothered that will rub off.


----------



## Polonaise (1 March 2014)

Used to keep mine next door to a pig farm, sometimes the farmer let them out in the yard for some sun on their backs, getting ponies past the yard usually involved a blindfold if the pigs were out. One day they escaped, luckily I had pretty dominant mares at the time, they just stood in their field snorting and charging them. They never "got used to them" I'm afraid. 
I've currently got  horse who had a similar terror of miniature horses, she's not scared of anything usually but these would have her frozen and trembling, spent many an afternoon hacking past one and letting her look at it etc. to no effect but she's since been on a yard with one and has got over it finally!

Guess if the pigs are not a choice you just have to desensitize, try not to make it an issue, act confident around the pigs so horse sees nothing to be scared of. I've learnt a lot from current yard who make no allowances for spooky horses. Kids, dogs, cats, tractors, none stop what their doing just cos some-one else is backing a 3 year old for the first time....and you've never seen such chilled out horses, if we're confident enough it's not a problem they seem to just accept it.


----------



## TrasaM (1 March 2014)

There are some pigs next to one of the bridle paths we use and we get a mixed reaction from the horses. The worst is the old boy who is terrified of them. Even if pigs aren't there he will be in full guard. Big Mare ..she will lean over the wall to have a closer look  other two horses get a bit prancy but I suspect it's mostly because Old boy is panicking. 
Monty Roberts did one of his programs on a horse who was terrified of cows. I should think following the same process with pig desensitising would work..


----------



## dieseldog (1 March 2014)

We have had pigs and horses and they have been fine - to the point that we have found them sharing a stable.  

My current horse just does not get sheep, I don't think she had ever seen them before I got her (she had spent her whole life on the same farm before I bought her at 5).  The first time she saw them she nearly fell over as she was trying to walk in a straight line while staring at them over her shoulder.  She has got better about sheep the more she has seen them and now will only stare at them if they do something stupid.

But is fine about donkeys - which lots of horses hate and pigs, she seems to really quite like pigs as the farmer buys piglets and they are next to her field and I see them all kissing each other over the fence.


----------



## Cragrat (1 March 2014)

I keep a couple of pigs every now and then. The horses might have a snorting contest with the pigs when they first arrive, but that's about it.

Years ago we kept a sow. The chickens would roost on the pig pen fence. One pony thought it a great  game to swing his head and knock a chicken into the waiting jaws of the sow!


Someone I once worked for had a CB   hunter, stereotypically stubborn, that wouldn't go past a pig farm.  He borrowed a cattle prod, and used it on the horses withers, with the desired effect!  After that, he only had to poke the horses wither with his finger if it ever had a 'shan't' moment.


----------



## TarrSteps (1 March 2014)

To the larger conversation, there is a difference between horses passing pigs in a ridden capacity and horses living with pigs. The former certainly does respond to training (which takes time and application). The latter is trickier if the horse isn't coping pretty well on its own. Most probably will adapt but my experience is some don't, or they become so dangerous/ill it's not worth it


----------



## dogatemysalad (1 March 2014)

If you live in an area where large numbers of pigs are farmed, horses tend to be fine due to the familiarity with them. I've been on several farms with pigs and the horses have been fine, even when they get into the horses fields. 
 Its a myth that horses are afraid of pigs. 
 Just as some hate dogs/chickens/geese/cows/sheep/donkeys, -some horses will not like pigs. 

Don't treat pigs as any different or it will certainly become an issue for your horse.


----------



## Cragrat (1 March 2014)

TarrSteps said:



			trickier if the horse isn't coping pretty well on its own.
		
Click to expand...

Interesting point. My horses are a secure nucleus group of 3, who have been on the premises far longer than the pigs, who come and go.  Even if we have an extra new horse in the herd, they take the lead from the established group.   

I can see how it could be different if the horses didn't feel as safe and secure in their environment.


----------



## TarrSteps (1 March 2014)

In my experience it's usually a horse moving into a new situation with pigs or pigs moving into a situation that's already tense or extremely sheltered that can cause the most problems. In the yard I worked on that had a free roaming pig we had very few problems as the horses coming in tended to be young, in full training, and surrounded by horses that were used to the pig.  

We did have one that was dangerously upset by the pig, to the point where she would hurt herself trying to get away. She never really did get used to him but could cope so long as she had a stable in the aisle he didn't go into. 

I'm not convinced it's a myth some horses are particularly bothered by pigs. I've never seen horses that couldn't learn to live with cows, chickens etc but pigs do seen to elicit some spectacular reactions.

Re advising flooding - i.e. making the horse live in close proximity - it CAN work but it can also go catastrophically wrong. A horse I rode had this done for his fear of llamas (also quite common, my theory is because they look like panicking horses). They built him a small pen next to the llamas and turned him out. He panicked, they couldn't catch him, and he broke his neck. I know ****happens with horses but I don't think that had to happen. Flooding is an established psychological technique but it carries far more risk than gradual desensitization.


----------



## dogatemysalad (1 March 2014)

TarrSteps said:



			In my experience it's usually a horse moving into a new situation with pigs or pigs moving into a situation that's already tense or extremely sheltered that can cause the most problems. In the yard I worked on that had a free roaming pig we had very few problems as the horses coming in tended to be young, in full training, and surrounded by horses that were used to the pig.  

We did have one that was dangerously upset by the pig, to the point where she would hurt herself trying to get away. She never really did get used to him but could cope so long as she had a stable in the aisle he didn't go into. 

I'm not convinced it's a myth some horses are particularly bothered by pigs. I've never seen horses that couldn't learn to live with cows, chickens etc but pigs do seen to elicit some spectacular reactions.

Re advising flooding - i.e. making the horse live in close proximity - it CAN work but it can also go catastrophically wrong. A horse I rode had this done for his fear of llamas (also quite common, my theory is because they look like panicking horses). They built him a small pen next to the llamas and turned him out. He panicked, they couldn't catch him, and he broke his neck. I know ****happens with horses but I don't think that had to happen. Flooding is an established psychological technique but it carries far more risk than gradual desensitization.
		
Click to expand...

You're right, it is riskier. I'm not a fan of using flooding as a technique for overcoming a fear. It has to be done selectively and by people who know what they're doing, and have a intervention strategy in place if things start to go wrong. 

Thing is, that if we, as humans, believe that horses are instinctively afraid of pigs, then they will be. My horse hated donkeys, he would run blindly if he saw one and while many horses would react with panic on meeting a donkey, we don't believe horses are instinctively fearful of them.


----------



## TarrSteps (1 March 2014)

I don't know, they specifically banned mules from horse shows in the US because so many horses reacted badly. 

Horses are instinctively scared of many of the things we do with/to them, that doesn't stop us. We have developed methods of training and desensitisation that solve the problem for most, although I don't think you can ever say "all".

I would say my observation about pigs is based largely on anecdotal evidence, true. But I've not seen horses that didn't get used to living in proximity with donkeys, cows etc (even if they still reacted to them out hacking etc) but I have seen a FEW horse that didn't seem to ever really settle with pigs but did when they were no longer exposed to them. 

Anyway, it's moot really, because we can only ever deal with the situations we find ourselves in. If I had to have horses with pigs and one wasn't coping, I would try to address the situation as best I could, I wouldn't ever just assume it couldn't be done because clearly it can. Ditto passing pigs out hacking or any similar situation. BUT this also means we can only do what we can do and people have to be prepared to spend the time and effort to try, without getting frustrated if the horse is not following their desired path and schedule. Which is true of all training, really.


----------



## dogatemysalad (1 March 2014)

Good post TS.


----------



## TarrSteps (1 March 2014)

Except for the embarrassing double negative!


----------



## HotToTrot (1 March 2014)

Sorry, I'm chuckling at the poster on the previous page who mentioned "pig-proofing" a horse.  Is that like sound-proofing a room?!  

OP, here's hoping you find a solution that will save your bacon.


----------



## oldie48 (1 March 2014)

We hack past pigs on a regular basis. New horses are usually worried but in time get used to them, which is just as well as they sometimes get out onto the lane. I used to keep my horses on a farm that had a resident Llama that hid behind the hedge then popped his head up to spit at you. Initially my horse hated him but again gradually learned to ignore him. The landowner had an annual lawn meet, most of the field knew to keep well away from the Llama but I did suspect that the landowner was a bit disappointed if at least one rider didn't get ejected by a startled horse!


----------



## RobinHood (1 March 2014)

We have 40+ horses and free range kune kunes. We have one horse that is completely hysterical about them but all the others are fine. My own horse doesn't even stop eating his hay when the pigs wander under his stable chain, and one of the stallions has a litter of piglets in the stable next to him at the moment and he likes to sleep right next to the internal window where he can watch over them.


----------



## LCH611 (1 March 2014)

None of ours have ever worried about the pigs we have - which is just as well as the current kune kune piglets are often free range and can usually be found scratching themselves on the ponies' legs, or nibbling at whatever bits they can reach. In fact my pigs and ponies are generally to be found sunbathing close to each other and kissing through the fence. The little Dartmoor always gets the tiny piglets held up for him to inspect, and even when they are squealing for England in protest about being picked up, he doesn't bat an eyelid and still loves them. I thought it might be a bit of a big ask to bring the two new ones back from their first hack today to meet a welcoming party of over-excited piglets rushing up to greet them, but I don't think it will be long before we can do so. Maybe we have just been lucky not to have horses that panic about pigs!


----------



## Melms92 (2 March 2014)

Thank you to everyone who has replied. It's very interesting to hear some people find that pigs and horses just don't work and others feel it can be the same reaction provoked with another type of animal. In the interests of (attempting) to desensitise my horse I think on taking everyone's advice maybe taking his paddock away from the pigs in the meantime and riding/walking him in hand past them with our other pony who isn't bothered may be the best approach. Interestingly he also appears to be very scared of deer when out hacking and so I wonder if it is just that he hasn't been used to these types of animals. We bought him up in the hills and so sheep are one thing he isn't fussed about!!!


----------



## Dry Rot (2 March 2014)

During the 19th (?) century, the ploughmen of the north-east of Scotland came out on strike for more money. As the ploughing still needed to be the done, the farmers would take the horses out to do the ploughing.

At that time, those who worked the horses were an essential part of the rural economy and they had their own union which operated like the Free Masons, i.e. it was a secret society with many tricks and secrets for the handling of horses.

One thing these horsemen would do was to smear pig manure on the inside of the horses' collars and on the stable door posts so when the farmer came to tack up the horses would not accept a collar -- and even if they did, they would not go through the stable door!

One theory is that pig pheromones are similar to the strong male human smell. But I really cannot comment on that!

My own approach to solving the problem would be to feed the horse treats whenever you notice it has seen or scented pigs. You need to establish a pleasant association with pigs. Fear is self generating as it diminishes in proportion to the distance from the source of the fear. So I'd say attempt to gently reduce that distance a little bit more every day. Maybe try smearing a little pig dung on the rim of the feed bowl for a start?


----------



## glamourpuss (2 March 2014)

When I wanted to move my horses to my own place the YO from where I was moving from made me really nervous by gleefully telling me about horses can never settle on a yard where there is horses. 
Now given I have 2 hysterical TBs this did not bode well. 
However I unloaded them walked them past the pig pen, they looked at them said 'oh look pigs' & never gave them a 2nd thought. The only trouble I ever had was with the kids welsh mountain pony! And she soon got used to them. 
Mine quite happily graze in paddocks right next to the pigs. 
I never did any desensitising/flooding. I just acted like there wasn't an issue & I think the horses took their lead from me.


----------



## glamourpuss (2 March 2014)

Obviously horses can settle where there are other horses...but she told me they couldn't settle where there are pigs obviously


----------



## MiJodsR2BlinkinTite (2 March 2014)

My first pony, dear little man, just ADORED pigs, which was good as at that time there were loads of piggies around here, some of them were in a field, up a bank, and on a corner which you had to go around, so the horse & pigs were at eye level!!! A lot of people round here can remember trying to get their horses round that bend, but my little man would always have to stop at the gate and "talk" to the piggies, he was just such a fan of them. 

Current horses are totally phobic: Trad-Lad just has to sniff them on the wind and that's good enough for him to contort himself into all sorts of shapes and/or head for home; loan mare has no excuse in that she was apparently liveried in a field next to where they kept pigs!!! But think the issue with her is making sure Trad-Lad is "safe", so that's why she reacts, I think, its a sort-of instinct/mare thing going on.

Dunno about de-sensitising. I keep threatening my two with some pet pigs of our own!!!! Then we'd no-doubt have the problem of them being fine with their own pigs, but total fruit-loops with the ones up the road which would smell different!!!


----------



## TarrSteps (2 March 2014)

Melms92 said:



			Thank you to everyone who has replied. It's very interesting to hear some people find that pigs and horses just don't work and others feel it can be the same reaction provoked with another type of animal. In the interests of (attempting) to desensitise my horse I think on taking everyone's advice maybe taking his paddock away from the pigs in the meantime and riding/walking him in hand past them with our other pony who isn't bothered may be the best approach. Interestingly he also appears to be very scared of deer when out hacking and so I wonder if it is just that he hasn't been used to these types of animals. We bought him up in the hills and so sheep are one thing he isn't fussed about!!!
		
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone has said 'pigs and horses just don't work'. I think some people have said there are some horses that seem particularly stressed by pigs and simply ignoring the situation MIGHT not be enough to solve it to an acceptable level. 

It's all very well to imply that any horse that has trouble accepting pigs - or anything else - is merely the victim of an anxious owner but how does that account for all the people saying they have one that is anxious and others that are not.  Horses do have minds of their own. 

If you're in a situation where a horse is reacting negatively to something in its environment then obviously it needs addressing. Many times it is just a matter of patience but even in those cases a bit of thought can keep everyone safe and positive though the process.


----------



## Pigeon (2 March 2014)

We once encountered wild boar in the forest of dean with the dobbins. These were two ponies you could do absolutely anything to - they turned tail and ran, never seen them so scared!


----------



## maccachic (2 March 2014)

My horses used to live with a huge pig she used to put herself into their paddock regulary to hang out with them, got a bit het up once when I was lunging my boy was quite funny, not sure what her issue was tho?  She has passed on now, I just have a donkey, cows and  goat.


----------



## paddy (3 March 2014)

We've got a couple of saddlebacks in the barn at the moment.  When they're not wintering in, they're in a field next to the horses.  We had a few wide eyed moments when the first arrived, but now none of them seem remotely interested.  Desensitisation does work.


----------



## RobinHood (3 March 2014)

I was thinking of this thread this morning when a pig wandered under my horse's belly as I was trimming his feet and then plonked itself down on the pile of hay my horse was eating.


----------



## dieseldog (8 March 2014)

My horse got some new neighbours this week - Sheep Pigs!


----------

