# Horse with 70% burns - Recovering



## aimeetb (10 May 2011)

OMG just seen this in the DailyMail, the poor thing 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1385489/Horses-amazing-recovery-killed-her.html

What a beautiful horse! 

So glad she is getting there! 

ETA - this is why I used to get so P****D OFF with stupid idiots at my old yard smoking while they were mucking out! They said oh its only a little bit of ash, it wont hurt! I would hurt you if you ever harmed my horse! The yard owner didnt want to put signs up incase it offended people!! Needless to day I moved!


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## millhouse (10 May 2011)

Oh that poor horse.  Hope it makes a full recovery.  God bless.


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## Amymay (10 May 2011)

I can't believe they put that poor horse through that


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## MurphysMinder (10 May 2011)

2 years of treatment and skin grafts!  I have to say if she was mine I would have pts.


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## BBH (10 May 2011)

I can't help thinking that if she had been in England she would have been PTS. 

I've never seen such injuries but my goodness what a fighting spirit she must have.


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## *hic* (10 May 2011)

Having been involved with adult humans who have gone through similar and who were able to express their pain, anxiety and frustration I would never put an animal through that. When they found her in that awful state the only thing IMHO they could have done to show they truly cared was to give her oblivion.


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## Amymay (10 May 2011)

jemima_too said:



			Having been involved with adult humans who have gone through similar and who were able to express their pain, anxiety and frustration I would never put an animal through that. When they found her in that awful state the only thing IMHO they could have done to show they truly cared was to give her oblivion.
		
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I wish there was a 'like' button.


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## Bug2007 (10 May 2011)

Amazing she has recovered so well but as you have all said as soon as i'd seen her i'd have had her PTS.
I could not see my horse in that kind of pain for so long, as far as i'm concerned she had already suffered enough. 
This is the kind of situation where if it was my horse and nobody around to help me, i could pull the trigger.

Brings tears to my eyes thinking of the pain she must have been in.


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## FairyLights (10 May 2011)

Bug2007 said:



			Amazing she has recovered so well but as you have all said as soon as i'd seen her i'd have had her PTS.
I could not see my horse in that kind of pain for so long, as far as i'm concerned she had already suffered enough. 
This is the kind of situation where if it was my horse and nobody around to help me, i could pull the trigger.

Brings tears to my eyes thinking of the pain she must have been in.
		
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I totally agree.


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## mymare (10 May 2011)

amymay said:



			I can't believe they put that poor horse through that 

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MurphysMinder said:



			2 years of treatment and skin grafts!  I have to say if she was mine I would have pts.
		
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Awful!  That poor horse must have been in agony for such a long time.  Really not fair on the horse IMO.  If she was mine I too would have pts as soon as the vet got to her.  It's unbelievable what some people put their animals through, and it's all for the owner rather than the animal.

Poor thing.


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## MurphysMinder (10 May 2011)

I've just finished reading a book about a big equine hospital in USA, they do seem to prolong treatment in some cases for far longer than we would over here.


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## JoG (10 May 2011)

Bug2007 said:



			Brings tears to my eyes thinking of the pain she must have been in.
		
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Same here - that poor poor horse   great that it will give inspiration.hope to injured kids but still, I could never do that to an animal


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## SmartieBean09 (10 May 2011)

What a selfish thing to do!  If they truly loved the horse then they would have had it PTS.  Just cruel.  

I just couldn't watch my horse endure all of that tbh.  Horses aren't humans, I doubt it's grateful for the 18k spent etc.  Poor, poor thing.


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## Levade (10 May 2011)

Reminds me of the whole Barbaro thing - Seems to be a mentality in the US, that life, no matter how awful, is better than death.

If she were mine I would have put her out of her misery  Poor girl, I doubt she will ever truly recover, and two years of suffering, I couldn't do that to one of mine.


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## Doris68 (10 May 2011)

I agree with you Levade.  I certainly couldn't have put my horse through such painful treatment.  I wonder what sort of life the horse will have now that it's "recovered"....?


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## SusieT (10 May 2011)

It depends, if you can control the pain (and horses will show if they are in pain, if she had been in a lot of pain she would not have pulled through) and manage it with a not unreasonable cost to the horse I see this as very little different to colic surgeries where horses then get repeated colic bouts and some owenrs will not PTS despite the horse colicing on a regular interval. 

Often we are too quick to put a horse to sleep rather than value life and make every effort without causing unneccesary distress. Without knowing the life of this horse during those two years, demeanour etc. it is impossible to say whether this was reasonable or not.


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## Amymay (11 May 2011)

SusieT said:



			It depends, if you can control the pain (and horses will show if they are in pain, if she had been in a lot of pain she would not have pulled through) and manage it with a not unreasonable cost to the horse I see this as very little different to colic surgeries where horses then get repeated colic bouts and some owenrs will not PTS despite the horse colicing on a regular interval. 

Often we are too quick to put a horse to sleep rather than value life and make every effort without causing unneccesary distress. Without knowing the life of this horse during those two years, demeanour etc. it is impossible to say whether this was reasonable or not.
		
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I think we can safely say that the life of this horse over the past two years would have been hell.

The survival rate for people who have received 70% burns is only about 50%.  And the agony that these poor people go through can be indescribable at times.  I'm sure if given the choice, some would want to be put out of their misery.  We can make that choice for our animals - and often we are actually _not_ quick enough to put an animal to sleep to stop its suffering.

If someone values life then to my mind they should understand that quality of life is much more important than quantity of life.  And in the case of this horse, its quality of life for 2 years was zero - and will remain questionable until it's demise.  And actually pain does not kill.  

I can't quite get the logic behind equating colic to 70% burns I'm afraid.


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## aimeetb (11 May 2011)

I have to say I was pleased to see her almost recovered but you are all right, I think if I had seen my in that state I would have pts - i cant imagine ow its life has been over the past 2 years and how traumatised she must be and not able to tell anyone unlike a human.


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## Kenzo (11 May 2011)

Oh good heavens, I couldn't of put my a horse through that, it would of killed me seeing them in so much pain, not only that but an animal doesn't understand that in time things will/could be better like a human can, so think of the mental torture this horse went through as well.


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## Damnation (11 May 2011)

Poor thing should have been put to sleep 2 years ago.
She may recover physically but god knows how much pain she has been in, and what mental scars will be left after such a horrific ordeal


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## Alec Swan (11 May 2011)

SusieT said:



			It depends, if you can control the pain (and horses will show if they are in pain, if she had been in a lot of pain she would not have pulled through) and manage it with a not unreasonable cost to the horse I see this as very little different to colic surgeries where horses then get repeated colic bouts and some owenrs will not PTS despite the horse colicing on a regular interval. 

Often we are too quick to put a horse to sleep rather than value life and make every effort without causing unneccesary distress. Without knowing the life of this horse during those two years, demeanour etc. it is impossible to say whether this was reasonable or not.
		
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SusieT,

I really can't agree with you.  Whilst I understand your laudable motives,  the reality for that poor creature,  can only be imagined.  To suggest that if the horse had been in pain,  it would not have pulled through,  cannot be right.  Over the centuries horses have,  and still do,  endure unimaginable suffering,  at the hands of their owners,  and still continue to be put to work.

Pre or post surgery,  I would never allow a horse to endure recurring bouts of colic,  no matter how attached to the animal I was.

"Valuing life",  in my view is about putting the well being of the animal,  before our own,  regardless of the financial costs.

In my view,  the motives of the owner and the vets concerned,  at best,  were skewed,  and at the worst,  were mind numbingly selfish.

Alec.


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## Hedgewitch13 (11 May 2011)

And typically nearly all the comments were 'for' keeping her alive and putting her through that awful pain. Yes she maybe almost recovered now but dear god what that poor creature musty have gone through. I would say the owner is selfish rather than kind, she was doing all of this for herself and not the horse.

I had a wry smile at the idiot who commented along the lines of owners putting bullets through horses heads just because they had broken a limb.... get real... sigh.


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## MagicMelon (11 May 2011)

I am all for never put an animal to sleep unless absolutely necessary - but in this case I agree with others, I believe burns can be horrifically painful so I cant imagine how much pain this horse was in, no amount of pain relief could touch it I doubt - or if it was given in huge doses for 2 years, it wont have been good for it.  If the horse had been mine, I think I would have PTS.  I couldnt bare to see the horse in pain for 2 years...


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## Faithkat (11 May 2011)

Damnation said:



			Poor thing should have been put to sleep 2 years ago.
She may recover physically but god knows how much pain she has been in, and what mental scars will be left after such a horrific ordeal 

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I agree.  Interesting that the photo of her "recovered" shows the chain across her nose - pain from the burns left her headshy/difficult to handle perhaps?????


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## JoG (11 May 2011)

Have been thinking about this since i posted yesterday.....it doesn't say how thick the burn were.  If they were full thickness then all the nerve endings would have been burnt and so would be less painful at the time of the fire.  Not sure how painful all that tissue regeneration would be though??? 

But if that was the case, the horse was pain free as the nerves had bee destroyed, then maybe the 2yrs surgery is worthwhile?


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## *hic* (11 May 2011)

I don't think anyone who'd had a bad burn would have described the healing as being pain free.


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## SusieT (11 May 2011)

We have no knowledge of this horses recovery. Was she bright and eating well?
Let's say the first week was a rocky road-that's true for colic surgeries in some cases, the ones with poorer prognosis's. After that say she picked up, ate well, appeared comfortable. There then in my mind if the owner has the money is no justification in putting the horse down without giving it a go.
If the horse was uncomfortable, dull, depressed for a reasonable length of time, yes or course PTS but whilst you may not beleive it, vets have ethics and I have yet to meet one keep a horse going longer than necessary even when owners wanted to. 
Without being involved in any case of any horse it is impossible to say, PTS because in humans it is like this. Don't forget we are talking about two different animals. 
Of course, this could be a case of a bad vet ignoring an animal being in significant pain for a reasonable period of time but look, now there is what looks like a mostly recovered horse (again-impossible toa sses from those pics).


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## SusieT (11 May 2011)

Alec Swan-believe it or not vets are quite good at assessing pain, both from a purely looking at the animals appearance and is it performing normal behvaiours point of view and from assessing the animals measureable parameters.


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## SusieT (11 May 2011)

Amymay-how do you know the  quality of life was zero? do you know How thick the burns were? Perhaps it had only two  bad burns, in which case it's no different to a lot of the tendon degloving injuries or chest impaled wounds we see posted on here that take a long time to heal and require skin grafts and the rest wa quite superficial. I don't know either hence I cannot say what it's quality of life was.


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## SusieT (11 May 2011)

http://www.vet.upenn.edu/Portals/0/images/Bellwether_general/BW72/nbc_case_study.pdf

so from a quick read (I'm on my way out), 2/3 days post accidnet the horse was becoming more its normal self. It had most of the burn centred around the back and head. It was eating. And remember the daily mail says two years of surgery and physio, she only has an $18000 bill, that's no more than a couple of weeks intensive care, max + physio. The physio may well have taken two years as many physio things do, not the actual burn healing.
All points in the horses favour.


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## Aru (11 May 2011)

At 70 percent burns that horse must have suffered.

Horses can reason like humans can.In those days when she was in pain she wouldnt have been able to think about how it would all be over soon she also wouldnt have been able to call for a nurse or someone to up her meds :/ she'd have to show signs of pain to let her handlers know.

Id also love to no what pain killer they used in order to allow a horse that size pain relief without other serious side effects.  

I question the sense of both owners and vets involved.

The quality of life is the most important thing in animal treatment and burns are one of the most painful injurys you can get.I hope as one poster stated that she had lost the feeling to her burn sites though I doubt that is the case,bar in the areas that needed skin grafting.

Poor poor creature.


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## Hedgewitch13 (11 May 2011)

SusieT do you really believe a horse with 70% burns was really back to it's normal self after 2/3 days? I would be interested in speaking to a human that's suffered that kind of catastrophic injury to find out how awful it was for them (not in a gruesome kind of way), let alone try to figure out how a helpless animal felt. Two years of recovery... that poor animal :-(


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## Amymay (11 May 2011)

SusieT, I cant quite get my head around the colic scenario - again...

Suffice it to say I am quite convinced that with 70% burns to the body (that is almost the entire body mass) this poor animal would have suffered considerably. But I think we'll have to agree to disagree about that.

You are right that vets are good at recognising pain etc, but my view of vets in the US is that they are prepared to conduct more radical treatments which are rarely to the benefit of the animal (but to the benefit of their emotional owners, unfortunately).


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## aimeetb (12 May 2011)

Whilst I appreciate your centiments Susie  - I must say I dont know how a horse could be made comfortable with such bad burns, it would not have been able to lie down or touch anything, wear a rug have heaters on it (if it couldnt wear a rug). I have had pretty bad sun burn and its awful and that is a drop in the ocean compared to this.

I wonder if the poor thing would have to have been sedated continuously?


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## Hanno Verian (12 May 2011)

aimeetb said:



			OMG just seen this in the DailyMail, the poor thing 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1385489/Horses-amazing-recovery-killed-her.html

What a beautiful horse! 

So glad she is getting there! 

ETA - this is why I used to get so P****D OFF with stupid idiots at my old yard smoking while they were mucking out! They said oh its only a little bit of ash, it wont hurt! I would hurt you if you ever harmed my horse! The yard owner didnt want to put signs up incase it offended people!! Needless to day I moved!
		
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I would have to be physically restrained from inflicting actual bodily harm upon anyone I saw smoking in a stable, even outside on the square they would be in no shadow of a doubt as to my thoughts on the matter and would be at risk from being hosed down or a fire extinguisher used on them.

I used to have nightmares about a yard fire, even now the thought of it makes me feel physically sick. Having dealt with human casualties who've been burnt whilst trapped, I cannot comprehend why an owner would put their horse through it. The kindest gift we can give is an end to suffering, it should be about what is best for the horse and its quality of life once "recovered" not as someone pointed out the owners neurosis or a veterinary practices desire to make money. 

I have had the privilige of meeting some fabulous vets, but also complete charletans who put the animals interests behind their own, including one who buted his horse that had a mild but quite probably recoverable tendon injury requiring box rest, but chose to thrash it round an XC course prior to the insurance companies vet coming to see it, end result catastrophic injury to tendon and horse PTS, but he got his money back from the insurance company....


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## ILuvCowparsely (23 July 2011)

I cant comment  on this as  i wasnt  there and all i know is what we read , all i know is i would value  the situation and how my horse was acting and vets advise before i made any  decision. People with sever burns come through   yes with pain I have seen horrendous cases but they live on with the scars burns and through the pain of healing.


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## Molly'sMama (25 July 2011)

Although its awful and i would have PTS, I think we may have misunderstood. I think they mean they have burns on 70% of the body, not 70% burns, as in a big area but not as deep as 70% burns? Its hard to explain.


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