# kauto star at olympia. Oh my



## ex racer rider (17 December 2014)

Kauto star and Laura collete were at Olympia, and after watching the clips, my god what horrendous riding.


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## ex racer rider (17 December 2014)

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/equestrian/30516647


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## dressagelove (17 December 2014)

There is a long thread about this in Competing and Training. I think she did as well as she could under the circumstances, she must of been mortified, very embarrassed and I'd like to see you do better under such circumstances!

Poor girl is getting a lot of criticism for it, but horses will be horses and will always surprise you. It wasn't her best riding no, but she is a very talented lady and was clearly trying to make the best of a bad situation!


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## Hoof_Prints (17 December 2014)

I have no doubt she is a very talented rider and you can see she's done a cracking job with him , all horses are going to have an off day! but what the bloody hell is she doing with her hands??


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## dreambigpony (17 December 2014)

I understand that every horse and every rider has their good and bad days. However, she looks like she's only just learnt to ride- flapping her arms about so strangely!! The horse must have been so confused!


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## Andalucian (17 December 2014)

Simply awful. She should have just got off and declared him unwell.


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## Cortez (17 December 2014)

Andalucian said:



			Simply awful. She should have just got off and declared him unwell.
		
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This^^^


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## Hoof_Prints (17 December 2014)

What was the jabbing in the mouth supposed to achieve? I'm really struggling to see the idea behind it :S


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## milesjess (17 December 2014)

Sorry but those who are defending her have you seen the video?!

Either way, she's a professional rider and he hardly acts up in the arena. But being 'experienced' it's down to the rider to settle and relax him, but WATCH the video. She is gobbing him, not even discreetly, she's constantly yanking him in the mouth and putting the leg on. 

He's an ex race horse, he's been out and seen crowds etc, so it's not like he's totally not been exposed to these atmospheres.


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## Wagtail (17 December 2014)

Is there another video? This one won't load for me.


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## charlie76 (17 December 2014)

I may be wrong but I reckon they doped him as they thought he would be sharp, the sweat and the shutting down is typical of a horse that's had a bit of sedaline. I have ridden one having had some and that's exactly what happened, its like the lights suddenly go off!


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## Bigbenji (17 December 2014)

charlie76 said:



			I may be wrong but I reckon they doped him as they thought he would be sharp, the sweat and the shutting down is typical of a horse that's had a bit of sedaline. I have ridden one having had some and that's exactly what happened, its like the lights suddenly go off!
		
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Have to agree and the fact he seemed to start loosing co-ordination in his back end at one point also points to this. 

Should of put her hand up and said he's not right. The crowd at Olympia would of appreciated that show of horsemanship rather than what I saw on the BBC clip I'm sure :/


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## AdorableAlice (17 December 2014)

Oops, one pill too many judging by his demeanour.


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## AmieeT (17 December 2014)

Even I can see how awful that was... and I am certainly no expert 

Ax


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## Hoof_Prints (17 December 2014)

Just watched it back again and it looks even worse the second time, hope it was just a stressed out reaction from the pressure and not a regular way of riding him.


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## twiggy2 (17 December 2014)

Wagtail said:



			Is there another video? This one won't load for me.
		
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another thread in the Tack Room titled 'kauto'

it is not pleasant viewing-why on earth did she not declare him unfit to continue and get off him?


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## Highlands (17 December 2014)

Not good, her hands are jabbing. Looks very awkward.


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## Peregrine Falcon (17 December 2014)

Not the horses finest hour but this is an ex-racehorse who is in the process of re-training for a totally different discipline.  Every horse can have it's "off" day and it's down to the rider to judge what is best.  I am sure Laura will be disappointed.


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## SadKen (17 December 2014)

What a shame, I think Charlie76 might be right, I'd imagine they have been working towards Olympia for ages and Laura must have been embarrassed and disappointed. He is such a high profile horse. I didn't like what I saw but I don't think it's the end of the world either, I know I've let frustration get the better of me before and my riding hasn't been sympathetic as I'd like, and I'm not competing on a world stage. I wonder if sponsorship money rested on the airtime kauto star would have had?


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## minkymoo (17 December 2014)

dressagelove said:



			There is a long thread about this in Competing and Training. I think she did as well as she could under the circumstances, she must of been mortified, very embarrassed and I'd like to see you do better under such circumstances!

Poor girl is getting a lot of criticism for it, but horses will be horses and will always surprise you. It wasn't her best riding no, but she is a very talented lady and was clearly trying to make the best of a bad situation!
		
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Or maybe it would have been a better idea for her to just have bowed out? I'd rather see no riding than this abomination. Tbh, if my horse wasn't ready - and Kauto clearly isn't, I wouldn't have done it. It would be very interesting to see how he would do with Charlotte DJ or Carl Hester, and I'll bet my last dollar it wouldn't look like that!


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## Pigeon (17 December 2014)

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?685928-Kauto-Star-at-Olympia-last-night/page8

I commented on the other post (at great length haha) so have linked the thread here, because out of the Kauto threads it has the most replies  

Does anyone know why Kauto went to her? I would have thought if it was dressage he was aimed at he should have gone to a dressage rider rather than an eventer. It seems an unusual choice.


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## NikNak1 (17 December 2014)

I was expecting to watch the video and think that it would look ok and think people were over reacting but the bcc clip was truly horrendous. Presumably the bcc would have tried to show the best bits as well. It is so sad as I saw him do a display at Burghley last year and it was nothing like that.
The atmosphere does look intimidating and the crowd do look close which they wouldn't have been at Cheltenham or burghley but that is no excuse for riding like that.


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## jump_racing (18 December 2014)

She is supposedly yogis golden girl and when clive contacted him he was always going to recommend laura !


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## Hedgewitch13 (18 December 2014)

I'm astounded people think she is a good rider! Truly awful. KS deserves so much more than this. I hated the fact that a horse that loved to gallop and jump was going to be 'made' into a dressage horse anyway - such a terrible decision all round


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## EquiEquestrian556 (18 December 2014)

Hedgewitch13 said:



			I'm astounded people think she is a good rider! Truly awful. KS deserves so much more than this. I hated the fact that a horse that loved to gallop and jump was going to be 'made' into a dressage horse anyway - such a terrible decision all round 

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I did think he'd of preferred to do eventing than dressage, he didn't look too good, a bit doped perhaps,
but then again, it must be rather daunting for a horse who's never seen anything like that before. It wasn't nice to watch though.

Laura normally rides very well.


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## thatsmygirl (18 December 2014)

I'm disgusted by her riding, shocking


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## MiJodsR2BlinkinTite (18 December 2014)

NikNak1 said:



			I was expecting to watch the video and think that it would look ok and think people were over reacting but the bcc clip was truly horrendous. Presumably the bcc would have tried to show the best bits as well. It is so sad as I saw him do a display at Burghley last year and it was nothing like that.
The atmosphere does look intimidating and the crowd do look close which they wouldn't have been at Cheltenham or burghley but that is no excuse for riding like that.
		
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Yes agree. FFS what was she doing? She was kicking away up there fit to shame a Prince Phillip Cup gymkhana kiddie riding for 1st place; and her hands??? Jeeezus. Trying to be charitable, but it was AWFUL, she was just jabbing him in the mouth. Any half-decent instructor at any pony club rally up and down the country wouldn't have let any kiddie ride like that!!! Shouldn't she have been pulled out and/or reprimanded by the Powers That Be??? IMO there would be adequate justification for an infringement notice or whatever to be issued.

Poor KS - he looked incredibly unhappy, and confused, was obviously trying to please but wasn't getting any encouragement or appreciation. Very very sad situation for such a fine horse with such wonderful spirit to end up in. Tragic in fact.

PS: am predicting this thread will be pulled quite soon.......... coz can remember the jolly Hoo Hah we had about a certain male showjumper, who made a dreadful public faux pas and everyone made comment on here; and his publicity machine got well @rsey and all of us who'd spoken our minds on here were given slaps over the wrist for saying nasty things and given lashes with a wet lettuce leaf (looks forward to with anticipation LOL)........ just making a prediction, that's all. We shall see.

PPS: if she needs any reminding and/or a salutary lesson as to how some horses will react with having their mouths sawn off like that, she'd better come and try my trad-lad......... coz by god if she rode my traddie like that she'd soon find herself biting the dust PDQ, I've seen him do it with other people who've been heavy handed. On second thoughts, not, though, coz I value him far too much to do that to him and if I saw anyone doing that to him I'd be the first to kick their pants out the saddle.


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## SkewbyTwo (18 December 2014)

MiJodsR2BlinkinTite said:



			PS: am predicting this thread will be pulled quite soon.......... coz can remember the jolly Hoo Hah we had about a certain male showjumper, who made a dreadful public faux pas and everyone made comment on here; and his publicity machine got well @rsey and all of us who'd spoken our minds on here were given slaps over the wrist for saying nasty things and given lashes with a wet lettuce leaf (looks forward to with anticipation LOL)........ just making a prediction, that's all. We shall see.
		
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The Facebook group campaigning for his return to Clifford has already been pulled.


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## NeverSurrender (18 December 2014)

SkewbyTwo said:



			The Facebook group campaigning for his return to Clifford has already been pulled.
		
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'Give Kauto Star back to Clifford Baker' is still live and has 3970 likes at last check


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## Exploding Chestnuts (18 December 2014)

If connections don't like what they see, then it might make them realise that the whole "publicity" idea is flawed. The trouble is they have burned their bridges to date.


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## PingPongPony (18 December 2014)

Surely it'd have been better if she just finished at that rather than ride him horribly! It'd have done him more good to walk around on a long rein and take it all in to get used to the big crowds, rather than be jabbed and kicked! Plus, Olympia is a big family show, this isn't exactly the best example for children who will now think this is acceptable. And since it's also shown on TV, it's not the greatest advert for our sport.


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## SkewbyTwo (18 December 2014)

NeverSurrender said:



			'Give Kauto Star back to Clifford Baker' is still live and has 3970 likes at last check
		
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They made a post earlier, saying it would be down by 10pm tonight.


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## NeverSurrender (18 December 2014)

apologies, i must have missed that!


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## LCH611 (19 December 2014)

MiJodsR2BlinkinTite said:



			PPS: if she needs any reminding and/or a salutary lesson as to how some horses will react with having their mouths sawn off like that, she'd better come and try my trad-lad......... coz by god if she rode my traddie like that she'd soon find herself biting the dust PDQ, I've seen him do it with other people who've been heavy handed. On second thoughts, not, though, coz I value him far too much to do that to him and if I saw anyone doing that to him I'd be the first to kick their pants out the saddle.
		
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I am willing to bet that LC would probably get a far better tune out of your traddie cob than you would out of any of the event horses at her yard, or even KS himself............ you could always post video clips of both so we could really carry on with the trial by internet theme?


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## Clodagh (19 December 2014)

Did he reappear the next night? Was it better/worse/different? Sorry if it says already on here somewhere.


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## littleshetland (19 December 2014)

My my, so many perfect riders out there, capable of making calm and rational decisions under the glare of the Olympia spotlight whilst riding a superstar celebrity horse........  Actually, if you watch the entire 'film' of her performance, there are parts that really are quite nice and harmonious - and then for goodness knows what reason, KS seems to switch off.  It looks to me like LC was panicking a bit and desperate to turn things around, which only served to make thing worse.  Yes, we all know what she should have done, but she didn't...........this doesn't make her a shockingly bad rider - I think her reaction was all to human.


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## Swirlymurphy (19 December 2014)

LCH611 said:



			I am willing to bet that LC would probably get a far better tune out of your traddie cob than you would out of any of the event horses at her yard, or even KS himself............ you could always post video clips of both so we could really carry on with the trial by internet theme?
		
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Very well said.  I'm still shocked at how judgemental the horse world is and I've been around the block a few times.


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## el_Snowflakes (19 December 2014)

littleshetland said:



			My my, so many perfect riders out there, capable of making calm and rational decisions under the glare of the Olympia spotlight whilst riding a superstar celebrity horse........  Actually, if you watch the entire 'film' of her performance, there are parts that really are quite nice and harmonious - and then for goodness knows what reason, KS seems to switch off.  It looks to me like LC was panicking a bit and desperate to turn things around, which only served to make thing worse.  Yes, we all know what she should have done, but she didn't...........this doesn't make her a shockingly bad rider - I think her reaction was all to human.
		
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Sorry I can't agree. No amount of pressure would make me abuse an animal. I'm afraid it does IMO make her a bad rider as she never listened to the horse one bit, just rode it like it was a machine.

A good horsewoman would have showed off the good bits & demonstrated Proffesionalism when it began to go wrong. You don't have to be a great rider yourself to recognise cruelty when you see it!


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## littleshetland (19 December 2014)

If she was being 'cruel' I'm sure it was unintentional.  I'm sure LC wanted to show the world how nicely KS has taken to his new role - it has been mentioned on one of these threads how nice he was working at Burghley whilst doing a demo.  Olympia was a disaster (although, like I said, one or two nice bits if you look at the whole thing) - but poor old LC - it's the law of 'sod' - if somethings going to go wrong, it's going to go spectacularly wrong at a spectacular event........who hasn't made a complete pigs ear of a situation from time to time ?  I know I have....


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## Elf On A Shelf (19 December 2014)

el_Snowflakes said:



			Sorry I can't agree. No amount of pressure would make me abuse an animal. I'm afraid it does IMO make her a bad rider as she never listened to the horse one bit, just rode it like it was a machine.

A good horsewoman would have showed off the good bits & demonstrated Proffesionalism when it began to go wrong. You don't have to be a great rider yourself to recognise cruelty when you see it!
		
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But have you ever been in her position - sitting on a world famous horse dearly loved by the public, expected to perform in an intense atmosphere with thousands of people crowding you into a box with an owner who you don't dare say no to because they are your best chance of survival in the eventing world? 

Until you have done all of that then you won't understand exactly what pressure LC was under.


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## littleshetland (19 December 2014)

EKW said:



			But have you ever been in her position - sitting on a world famous horse dearly loved by the public, expected to perform in an intense atmosphere with thousands of people crowding you into a box with an owner who you don't dare say no to because they are your best chance of survival in the eventing world? 

Until you have done all of that then you won't understand exactly what pressure LC was under.
		
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Exactly !!


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## el_Snowflakes (19 December 2014)

EKW said:



			But have you ever been in her position - sitting on a world famous horse dearly loved by the public, expected to perform in an intense atmosphere with thousands of people crowding you into a box with an owner who you don't dare say no to because they are your best chance of survival in the eventing world? 

Until you have done all of that then you won't understand exactly what pressure LC was under.
		
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I wouldn't put myself in a position if I was unable to cope. It's about being proffesional. As I said, no amount of pressure would make me act in an unethical way. This is not a young lass riding under the lights for the first time, this is a proffesional who is meant to be demonstrating excellence.

Tbh I don't really care what pressure she was under. No excuse for cruelty!


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## Lintel (19 December 2014)

Wow. I feel this thread is going to gradually get out of control. Some very judgemental people out there- along with some very very forgiving!! 

Going to agree on the a pill too many maybe stance.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (19 December 2014)

el_Snowflakes said:



			I wouldn't put myself in a position if I was unable to cope. It's about being proffesional. As I said, no amount of pressure would make me act in an unethical way. This is not a young lass riding under the lights for the first time, this is a proffesional who is meant to be demonstrating excellence.

Tbh I don't really care what pressure she was under. No excuse for cruelty!
		
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One f  two ss 's,   , 
Lets not get carried away with "cruelty"
If someone cant take the heat, they can get out of the kitchen


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## maxapple (19 December 2014)

She should have retired from the arena ... How many of us would watch someone riding our own horse like that and not ask them to get off??


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## Orangehorse (19 December 2014)

Brave people!  Suggesting a horse has been doped on a public forum.

I am with EKW here -not a nice position to be in for Laura.


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## el_Snowflakes (19 December 2014)

Bonkers2 said:



			One f  two ss 's,   , 
Lets not get carried away with "cruelty"
If someone cant take the heat, they can get out of the kitchen
		
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She couldn't & she didn't.


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## Toby1Konoby (20 December 2014)

Horse responding or not, stage fright or not, doped or not, the way she rode Kauto Star was appauling and unforgiving. What was she trying to prove by yanking his reins with every stride he took? This is not productive in getting any horse on side with you to perform, especially if he is not moving forwards or listening to the leg aids. It looked like all she was bothered about was his outline. Keep him 'pretty' for the crowd. Instead it just looked ugly. 
And all the excuses I have read and heard are not sitting well with me. If she was any decent horsewoman, she would have heard KS tell her that enough was enough and she would have given up gracefully.
This is such a sad thing to see in our sport after such an amazing week of fantastic results from our real dressage riders and horses.


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## RunToEarth (20 December 2014)

el_Snowflakes said:



			I wouldn't put myself in a position if I was unable to cope. It's about being proffesional. As I said, no amount of pressure would make me act in an unethical way. This is not a young lass riding under the lights for the first time, this is a proffesional who is meant to be demonstrating excellence.

Tbh I don't really care what pressure she was under. No excuse for cruelty!
		
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I was shocked when I watched the video and think I've commented to that effect on the CR thread. 

However, I don't know the horse and I don't know the rider. I will give KS's team the benefit of the doubt in that they didn't think he would react the way he did. Uncomfortable viewing but no cruelty - more a frustrated rider on a horse she knows can pull it out of the bag. 

What I will say is that as a chaser no atmosphere he will have experienced will compare to Olympia, and only those who know the horse will know whether his reaction was off whack at all. 

I wont deny the clip didn't make comfortable viewing, but Laura is a fairly accomplished rider and rides to a higher level than most on this forum. Does it occur to you that she recognised the horse had shut down in his surroundings and was just encouraging him to go forward, in a less than ideal way?


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## Moomin1 (20 December 2014)

RunToEarth said:



			I was shocked when I watched the video and think I've commented to that effect on the CR thread. 

However, I don't know the horse and I don't know the rider. I will give KS's team the benefit of the doubt in that they didn't think he would react the way he did. Uncomfortable viewing but no cruelty - more a frustrated rider on a horse she knows can pull it out of the bag. 

What I will say is that as a chaser no atmosphere he will have experienced will compare to Olympia, and only those who know the horse will know whether his reaction was off whack at all. 

I wont deny the clip didn't make comfortable viewing, but Laura is a fairly accomplished rider and rides to a higher level than most on this forum. Does it occur to you that she recognised the horse had shut down in his surroundings and was just encouraging him to go forward, in a less than ideal way?
		
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I think the point is RTE, that given her level of ability, it was pretty shocking to see her flapping and kicking, and pulling and jabbing.  I honestly have seen better in beginner's lessons at a riding school. 

With regards to the 'cruelty' side of it - I really don't think KS will have been that fussed by it all. He certainly didn't look bothered.


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## Alyth (20 December 2014)

The horse should be doing what he ENJOYS not what people think he SHOULD be doing.....how about something like team chasing?  Hunter trials?


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## showpony (20 December 2014)

Maybe I'm mad to think this, but wouldn't it be lovely to see him do some low key riding club stuff?? Bit of variety, no pressure, out of the public eye.
I'm not experienced enough to comment on video but all I can say is that I think there is too much pressure being put on the horse to turn him into something he isn't


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## twiggy2 (20 December 2014)

the horse does not need to be the centre of someones world because of who he was or how much he won, he is a horse nothing more, they all deserve a happy existence and he does not look happy. I cannot comment on how he normally looks cos I don't know. I do know in that clip the horse and rider look as far from a partnership as is possible. I don't care what the horse does from living out in a herd in a muddy filed to competing at the highest end he is capable of doing. I don't think he has to prove himself in any field but I feel the same about any horse regardless of their past.


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## Mongoose11 (20 December 2014)

The points about 'arena, type of horse and stage fright' are completely irrelevant. Bottom line is that I've never, ever seen a professional ride so badly.

 When I first moved to my new yard, a young girl, who I was told could ride, was invited to sit on my mare because I was looking for a sharer. The girl performed similarly to this and I allowed her five minutes to settle in and then explained politely that she wasn't right for my horse. 

I was completely shocked by this video.


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## sandi_84 (20 December 2014)

I've just watched this, late to the thread as usual, but actually "eurg"ed out loud at what she was doing :/

That's the worst I've seen a professional ride too and agree that she should have just pulled out of the test rather continue to sock his gob and kick and whip him on at the same time. Incredibly unsympathetic riding and rather counterproductive from all aspects for the poor horse and for herself.

Really not one of her best moments I expect :/ Poor horse 

I just don't get it, I was always taught (had drilled into me in fact) that you must have soft hands, be gentle with your horses mouth and do your very very utmost to not jab them in the teeth due to accidental yanking of the reins let alone on purpose!

Why has, in the 10 years I was away from horses, it now become the fashion to even go so far as to encourage people to do this? It really is a major annoyance of mine that children are being taught to pull and jab the mouth and to completely ignore the basics of riding including the fact they have legs. Now it seems that this horrible practice of purposefully jabbing your horses mouth is even routine for professional riders?

I have had my god awful riding moments, I'm sure we all do, where we have become so focused or been told to by someone you believe knows what they are saying (who as it turns out is actually teaching a really bad habit) and later think back and say to yourself "I should have done that completely differently, my approach/reaction/teacher was all wrong about this" but you expect so much more from a professional rider than to commit this very basic horsey "sin".

I hope that she does look back on this and realize her actions were wrong and hopefully she will learn from it and not do it again. Hopefully she will find a better, kinder approach in future.


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## Moomin1 (20 December 2014)

Alyth said:



			The horse should be doing what he ENJOYS not what people think he SHOULD be doing.....how about something like team chasing?  Hunter trials?
		
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How do you  know the horse would enjoy those things?  Most horses would just prefer to be in a field eating.


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## Grumpy Herbert (20 December 2014)

Horses will be horses, they are living creatures who have 'off' days - it certainly looks as if Kauto Star was having an 'off' day.  One would hope, however, that a professional rider would be able to recognise this and would have the sense to retire gracefully rather than sitting there flapping and kicking the poor animal.  I know she was probably under pressure from a perhaps over ambitious owner, but frankly she has made a bit of an @rse of herself, and the owner, by carrying on with this test.  Poor Kauto Star deserves better.


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## georgiegirl (20 December 2014)

Only just seen the video for the first time since all this kicked off.....

Awful viewing. Fairly obvious he was doped from watching that video and hes gone sleepier than they imagined he would do. Horses who back off the leg and shut down because they find an arena/crowd scary will back off the leg but still tend to look alert at what is going on around them. 

Like others have said - they should have just declared him as not being fit for appearance rather than the show that followed. I imagine the only reason they couldnt was due to pressures coming from elsewhere.

 I very much respect Laura as a fantastic jockey with her long list of achievements but this display leaves me really really confused?!?!What the actual F?!?


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## 9tails (20 December 2014)

Grumpy Herbert said:



			Poor Kauto Star deserves better.
		
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All horses deserve better. It was bullying and nasty.


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## SkewbyTwo (20 December 2014)

I take it as a firm indication that a) she has not bothered with the horse/is afraid of it/resents it/all of the above, as whatever happened, we saw a poorly muscled horse that she clearly completely misjudged, and therefore has evidently not got to know.

And b), that she must have no clue as to just who he is, no appreciation of what he has achieved, and absolutely no comprehension that he's the closest thing we've got to a modern day Arkle - because clearly when she "rode" as she did, she had absolutely no idea what kind of a world and inter-disciplinary stage she was riding on.

Unfortunately the upshot of the entire debacle is, Kauto sticks where he is, because at the end of the day money is power.


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## SkewbyTwo (20 December 2014)

Or, more succinctly, as I said to OH at the time, "she's not fit to shovel his sh¦t, let alone ride him".


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## Joharr77 (30 December 2014)

I saw kauto star at kempton on Boxing Day. This horse did not have stage fright ! He played to the crowd on Boxing Day and loved every minute of the atmosphere . At Olympia he was ridden badly and was just bloody miserable! Find something this amazing horse enjoys doing , dressage is not for him!


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## Elf On A Shelf (30 December 2014)

Joharr77 said:



			I saw kauto star at kempton on Boxing Day. This horse did not have stage fright ! He played to the crowd on Boxing Day and loved every minute of the atmosphere . At Olympia he was ridden badly and was just bloody miserable! Find something this amazing horse enjoys doing , dressage is not for him!
		
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An open air racecourse, being lead is a completely different atmosphere to being alone, ridden, in an arena with 7000 people packed in all above and around you!


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## Joharr77 (30 December 2014)

I totally agree a completely different atmosphere that the horse clearly enjoyed! Yes he may have been in hand rather than ridden in a way totally alien to him but the horse was relaxed happy and enjoying himself , surely this is better than being forced to be something he is clearly not?


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## Joharr77 (30 December 2014)

Although at kempton there were people around and above him ! Still he was a different horse!


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## Exploding Chestnuts (30 December 2014)

SkewbyTwo said:



			I take it as a firm indication that a) she has not bothered with the horse/is afraid of it/resents it/all of the above, as whatever happened, we saw a poorly muscled horse that she clearly completely misjudged, and therefore has evidently not got to know.

And b), that she must have no clue as to just who he is, no appreciation of what he has achieved, and absolutely no comprehension that he's the closest thing we've got to a modern day Arkle - because clearly when she "rode" as she did, she had absolutely no idea what kind of a world and inter-disciplinary stage she was riding on.

Unfortunately the upshot of the entire debacle is, Kauto sticks where he is, because at the end of the day money is power.
		
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I dont know the back story, to be honest I assumed CS and this girl had something going!


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## Exploding Chestnuts (30 December 2014)

Joharr77 said:



			I saw kauto star at kempton on Boxing Day. This horse did not have stage fright ! He played to the crowd on Boxing Day and loved every minute of the atmosphere . At Olympia he was ridden badly and was just bloody miserable! Find something this amazing horse enjoys doing , dressage is not for him!
		
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Most good  owners take the trainers advice when retirement looms .............. this one did not ..........  I just hope Kauto Star sort of.... falls off the radar ................. no one is interested in following his  "dressage career" !!!! eeks!!!!


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## Joharr77 (30 December 2014)

Let's hope so!!! He deserves so much more!


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## Exploding Chestnuts (30 December 2014)

Joharr77 said:



			Let's hope so!!! He deserves so much more!
		
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I don't know the horse, but still, I am upset ..................  
A major embarassment, one we can all do without.


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## madmav (30 December 2014)

Kauto Star is one of my favourite racers of all time. And I admire Laura collet's bravery in continuing to event after losing sight in one eye.
The first part of the clip looks good. He's cantering around quite nicely. The second half is just weird. She's lost the plot, riding wise, yanking and digging away at him. Not pretty. And not her finest hour. Maybe they should stick to public events only at race courses and keep schooling to a low level at home.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (30 December 2014)

madmav said:



			Kauto Star is one of my favourite racers of all time.............  Maybe they should stick to public events only at race courses and keep schooling to a low level at home.
		
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I don't see the point ............ he can only go to a few public NH related events. Why bother with dressage at home which is a hard thing to do sucessfully, .... he needs to have a chilled out life, no more hard work.


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## Mike007 (30 December 2014)

Horses need to have a job or they just fade away. Good luck to K S . You will always be better at dressage than my horse anyway.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (30 December 2014)

Mike007 said:



			Horses need to have a job or they just fade away.
		
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I refrain from comment.


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## Mike007 (31 December 2014)

Oh please do comment !


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## marmalade76 (31 December 2014)

SkewbyTwo said:



			I take it as a firm indication that a) she has not bothered with the horse/is afraid of it/resents it/all of the above, as whatever happened, we saw a poorly muscled horse that she clearly completely misjudged, and therefore has evidently not got to know.

And b), that she must have no clue as to just who he is, no appreciation of what he has achieved, and absolutely no comprehension that he's the closest thing we've got to a modern day Arkle - because clearly when she "rode" as she did, she had absolutely no idea what kind of a world and inter-disciplinary stage she was riding on.

Unfortunately the upshot of the entire debacle is, Kauto sticks where he is, because at the end of the day money is power.
		
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Totally agree with this.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (31 December 2014)

I don t understand ............ please pm me if you know what this is about ........ money, the horse has made money, there will be no more money ..........


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## bonny (31 December 2014)

Bonkers2 said:



			I don t understand ............ please pm me if you know what this is about ........ money, the horse has made money, there will be no more money ..........
		
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I can only imagine the owner's ego....


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## Mike007 (31 December 2014)

Is that all you cn imagine about owners. How shallow!


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## Exploding Chestnuts (31 December 2014)

Mike007, it is obvious you know nothing of this matter.


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## Mike007 (31 December 2014)

I think your HHo online name says it all.


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## Maesfen (31 December 2014)

bonny said:



			I can only imagine the owner's ego....
		
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Mike007 said:



			Is that all you cn imagine about owners. How shallow!
		
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In this case Mike, the cap fits his owner; if it didn't, he wouldn't have sent him away from Ditchet but he thinks he knows better; he now knows he doesn't know as much as he thought and has ended up with egg on his face let alone the dislike of most of the horse's admirers; he certainly doesn't have the best interest of the horse in his heart; he just likes the limelight and is loathe to lose that status as the owner of the best NH horse for several decades.


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## Mike007 (31 December 2014)

Your opinion , my opinion , his horse!


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## Caledonia (31 December 2014)

The politics behind this farce will have any post explaining them removed. But as far as Breisner goes, mission accomplished for Laura - wealthy new owner too ignorant of eventing to know what's good or bad, nice and very expensive new horses. I could almost feel sorry for CS if it wasn't his self-importance that meant Kauto left Ditcheat in the first place.


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## ester (31 December 2014)

I don't think anyone from the 'team' has denied that he was doped despite of the allegations have they? I think that in itself is pretty poor PR for ROR - we've retrained him but thought we better sedate him?! 

It seems such a shame that they weren't able to select some other dressaging exracers to show what they can do instead.


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## popsdosh (31 December 2014)

Caledonia said:



			The politics behind this farce will have any post explaining them removed. But as far as Breisner goes, mission accomplished for Laura - wealthy new owner too ignorant of eventing to know what's good or bad, nice and very expensive new horses. I could almost feel sorry for CS if it wasn't his self-importance that meant Kauto left Ditcheat in the first place.
		
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Summed up really well! Pretty well spot on IMO !!!
Its a real shame the same effort is not expended helping other up and coming team riders to get on!!!"


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## oldie48 (31 December 2014)

Goodness me, so much vitriol in this thread and so many assumptions! Laura's a good rider with a lot of natural talent, I've seen her develop over a number of years from when she was a pony rider but she is still quite young. She's shown amazing courage to come back from her dreadful fall. Yogi is an excellent trainer with years and years of experience at the top level and he's known Laura since pony trials days and possibly before that, why wouldn't he recommend her.  There's absolutely no evidence that KS was doped but Laura said in the video that she thought he'd be bright in the arena, over worked him in the warm up and he clearly "shut down" completely part way through the test. She doesn't wear spurs when she rides him and frankly pony club kicks won't have done him much harm, as to the "jabbing"it's probable that he's locked his neck to block his forwardness, I doubt she did any damage there either It just looked ugly and amateurish and unfortunately didn't achieve much. These are professions and I doubt they would have agreed to take KS to Olympia if he wasn't going nicely but he's a horse not a motorbike and it seemed he got complete stage fright. anyone who's regularly watched big competitions will have seen it with other horses. Laura's big mistake was to try to continue and it was the wrong call on this occasion. What a shame but hardly a hanging offence!


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## ester (31 December 2014)

I'm not sure anyone has been hanging or thought that the way he was ridden was likely to do much actual damage. 

But it was ugly and amateurish in front of a knowledgeable audience and the wrong judgement call as you say - and when you do that as a professional in such a public arena it would be madness if it wasn't commented on surely!?

As I said there is no evidence he was doped apart from the excessive sweating/way of going and I don't understand if he wasn't why they haven't quite strongly argued against people saying that. I would want to if someone was saying my horse was medicated when it wasn't!


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## TPO (31 December 2014)

oldie48 said:



			Goodness me, so much vitriol in this thread and so many assumptions! Laura's a good rider with a lot of natural talent, I've seen her develop over a number of years from when she was a pony rider but she is still quite young. She's shown amazing courage to come back from her dreadful fall. Yogi is an excellent trainer with years and years of experience at the top level and he's known Laura since pony trials days and possibly before that, why wouldn't he recommend her.  There's absolutely no evidence that KS was doped but Laura said in the video that she thought he'd be bright in the arena, over worked him in the warm up and he clearly "shut down" completely part way through the test. She doesn't wear spurs when she rides him and frankly pony club kicks won't have done him much harm, as to the "jabbing"it's probable that he's locked his neck to block his forwardness, I doubt she did any damage there either It just looked ugly and amateurish and unfortunately didn't achieve much. These are professions and I doubt they would have agreed to take KS to Olympia if he wasn't going nicely but he's a horse not a motorbike and it seemed he got complete stage fright. anyone who's regularly watched big competitions will have seen it with other horses. Laura's big mistake was to try to continue and it was the wrong call on this occasion. What a shame but hardly a hanging offence!
		
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Well said


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## Joharr77 (31 December 2014)

Whatever the rights or wrongs of this, I was delighted to see kauto star full of beans at kempton on Boxing Day looking like he was enjoying what he was being asked to do. As I said before he looked like a different horse. Some just find dressage dull. My old horse was the same. In a dressage test you would think he was on his last legs get to the cross country / showjumping and he would be a different horse. I owned him for over 25 years , i have countless rosettes and trophies from him but I can say I only ever rode a handful of tests as he hated it. He went just like kauto star and he certainly was not doped just bored senseless!


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## EquiEquestrian556 (31 December 2014)

oldie48 said:



			Goodness me, so much vitriol in this thread and so many assumptions! Laura's a good rider with a lot of natural talent, I've seen her develop over a number of years from when she was a pony rider but she is still quite young. She's shown amazing courage to come back from her dreadful fall. Yogi is an excellent trainer with years and years of experience at the top level and he's known Laura since pony trials days and possibly before that, why wouldn't he recommend her.  There's absolutely no evidence that KS was doped but Laura said in the video that she thought he'd be bright in the arena, over worked him in the warm up and he clearly "shut down" completely part way through the test. She doesn't wear spurs when she rides him and frankly pony club kicks won't have done him much harm, as to the "jabbing"it's probable that he's locked his neck to block his forwardness, I doubt she did any damage there either It just looked ugly and amateurish and unfortunately didn't achieve much. These are professions and I doubt they would have agreed to take KS to Olympia if he wasn't going nicely but he's a horse not a motorbike and it seemed he got complete stage fright. anyone who's regularly watched big competitions will have seen it with other horses. Laura's big mistake was to try to continue and it was the wrong call on this occasion. What a shame but hardly a hanging offence!
		
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Agree with this 100%!


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## Bestdogdash (31 December 2014)

Mike007 said:



			Your opinion , my opinion , his horse!
		
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I agree Mike. I cant believe that CS did anything that he felt wasnt right for HIS horse, whether others agree with him or not. I felt at the time that PN should have respected his owners wishes and ept quiet. Furthermore, I seem to remember that PN wanted KS to be a point to point ride for his daughter. I bet he did ! 

We should remember that, whatever the sport (racing, eventing, Sj or whatever) the owners pay a hefty fee every month for the services of the trainers. It doesnt give the trainers any rights over the animal at all - unless part of a contract, or the fees are not paid promptly. I find it pretty shabby that CS is being castigated on this thread by some posters, for deciding exactly what he would like to do with his own horse.


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## oldie48 (1 January 2015)

Just to add a further point. KS is doing some dressage. Well it's flatwork, the sort of work every riding horse should be able to do because it makes them nicer to ride, keeps them supple and is the best preparation for pretty much any other discipline. It also, in my view, keeps them sounder longer because they are using themselves more correctly to carry a rider. I'm no expert on RoR but surely every ex racehorse needs the basics of flatwork or it can't be a showjumper or eventer. Yes, they could probably team chase or p2p but surely KS deserves better than that.



BestReindeerDash(er) said:



			I agree Mike. I cant believe that CS did anything that he felt wasnt right for HIS horse, whether others agree with him or not. I felt at the time that PN should have respected his owners wishes and ept quiet. Furthermore, I seem to remember that PN wanted KS to be a point to point ride for his daughter. I bet he did ! 

We should remember that, whatever the sport (racing, eventing, Sj or whatever) the owners pay a hefty fee every month for the services of the trainers. It doesnt give the trainers any rights over the animal at all - unless part of a contract, or the fees are not paid promptly. I find it pretty shabby that CS is being castigated on this thread by some posters, for deciding exactly what he would like to do with his own horse.
		
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## popsdosh (1 January 2015)

oldie48 said:



			Just to add a further point. KS is doing some dressage. Well it's flatwork, the sort of work every riding horse should be able to do because it makes them nicer to ride, keeps them supple and is the best preparation for pretty much any other discipline. It also, in my view, keeps them sounder longer because they are using themselves more correctly to carry a rider. I'm no expert on RoR but surely every ex racehorse needs the basics of flatwork or it can't be a showjumper or eventer. Yes, they could probably team chase or p2p but surely KS deserves better than that.
		
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How blinkered is that last statement ,so I assume you believe racing or team chasing is horse abuse ,I really cannot get over some peoples ignorance!!
The horse should be doing what he enjoys full stop in his retirement I dont think the most ignorant people out there could make a case that he was enjoying the experience at Olympia!!


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## oldie48 (1 January 2015)

I am sorry if I have offended you but you have misunderstood my point, perhaps made without sufficient thought.  I don't think though that my post suggested in any way that I think team chasing or p2ping is "horse abuse", please let me know which part of my post says that. I agree my experience is limited, part ownership of a pointer to pointer over a number of seasons hardly makes me an expert but it is my personal view that to see such a wonderfully successful horse spending his later years in disciplines that result in a relatively high number of injuries would sadden me. You are of course entitled to hold a different view and I would  neither consider you either ignorant nor blinkered, just with a different opinion.



popsdosh said:



			How blinkered is that last statement ,so I assume you believe racing or team chasing is horse abuse ,I really cannot get over some peoples ignorance!!
The horse should be doing what he enjoys full stop in his retirement I dont think the most ignorant people out there could make a case that he was enjoying the experience at Olympia!!
		
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## Elf On A Shelf (1 January 2015)

I would hate to see Kauto Star go pointing! The jockeys are amatuers. Even if you put a top amatuer on him you still have the idiots around you to contend with! Plus where would it stop? Points? Hunter Chases? Back to the Festival for the Foxhunters and Aintree over the big fences? 

Of course Team Chasing et al isnt horse abuse but he had a long, hard, succesful career. When he came down he went down hard. Theres no harm in giving him an easier happy hacker/light schooling life.


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## popsdosh (1 January 2015)

EKW said:



			I would hate to see Kauto Star go pointing! The jockeys are amatuers. Even if you put a top amatuer on him you still have the idiots around you to contend with! Plus where would it stop? Points? Hunter Chases? Back to the Festival for the Foxhunters and Aintree over the big fences? 

Of course Team Chasing et al isnt horse abuse but he had a long, hard, succesful career. When he came down he went down hard. Theres no harm in giving him an easier happy hacker/light schooling life.
		
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I never said he should go P2P or team chasing I quite clearly said he should do what he enjoys and Olympia was not that. That is the reason CSs motives came into question as I am not sure LC believes he is doing the right thing from her interviews and body language. Once they had agreed to do olympia she was on a hiding for nothing as it is very difficult to pull out of something that high profile. There are more politics involved than most know about but the horse should come first always! Channel four are running a series at the moment on the morning line of ex racehorses and their new careers it is great to see well known names out enjoying themselves. This is the thing with KS if he was just doing appearances and flatwork etc thats great but why was he put into such a high profile situation when to be blunt there are a lot better examples of ex racers who can di dressage. I have no axe to grind but once you put yourself up there on the pedestal you have made yourself a target when it goes wrong.
As for the injuries that is a slightly misinformed suggestion.


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## ester (1 January 2015)

oldie48 said:



			Just to add a further point. KS is doing some dressage. Well it's flatwork, the sort of work every riding horse should be able to do because it makes them nicer to ride, keeps them supple and is the best preparation for pretty much any other discipline. It also, in my view, keeps them sounder longer because they are using themselves more correctly to carry a rider. I'm no expert on RoR but surely every ex racehorse needs the basics of flatwork or it can't be a showjumper or eventer. Yes, they could probably team chase or p2p but surely KS deserves better than that.
		
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I don't think anyone realistically thinks that a bit of flatwork is bad for any riding horse, but that doesn't mean wheeling him out at olympia as was done. I for one certainly don't imagine he is only drilled in circles at home, it is the display at olympia I didn't like and felt that it did the ROR side of things a bit of disservice.


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## Goldenstar (1 January 2015)

ester said:



			I don't think anyone realistically thinks that a bit of flatwork is bad for any riding horse, but that doesn't mean wheeling him out at olympia as was done. I for one certainly don't imagine he is only drilled in circles at home, it is the display at olympia I didn't like and felt that it did the ROR side of things a bit of disservice.
		
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I agree with taking the horse into that environment did not work , he disliked it . It was over in minutes will it have harmed him, no of course it has not .
This TB is lucky he has an owner who protect him and pay his bills until his life is over this is not the sort of ex racehorse we need to be getting exercised about .
Personally I feel no need to see KS again as long as the horse is being well cared for in a great environment that's enough .
I dislike personally seeing old horses paraded it lacks dignity to my mind.


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## oldie48 (1 January 2015)

I think from the posts that I read some people think he shouldn't do "dressage" i was just trying to point out that at the level he is working is nothing more than I would expect of any horse. With regards to Olympia, clearly it wasn't a good experience for anyone but actually if he had gone well, just think how much it would have helped the ROR side of things. sometimes things just don't go well with horses even when done with the best of intentions. I just felt rather uncomfortable with some of the comments which seemed to show a lack of empathy for a rider when things go wrong. I don't understand why we seem to enjoy putting the boot in when  someone has already had a difficult and  very public embarrassment.



ester said:



			I don't think anyone realistically thinks that a bit of flatwork is bad for any riding horse, but that doesn't mean wheeling him out at olympia as was done. I for one certainly don't imagine he is only drilled in circles at home, it is the display at olympia I didn't like and felt that it did the ROR side of things a bit of disservice.
		
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## Elf On A Shelf (1 January 2015)

At least now they know not to take him to such an atmosphere again. Life is a learning curve. 

As to parading older horses - most of them seem to come to life when they hit the parade rings at racecourses - Dessie used to have great fun! But I would limit it to either Cheltenham, Aintree or for the likes of KS - Kempton - once a year.


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## AdorableAlice (1 January 2015)

I stumbled across a facebook group called 'Racehorses where are they now'.  It is so nice to see what they are up to.  Noland has just appeared and is looking fabulous.

I was shocked to read in a post earlier on that Paul Nicholls had plans for his daughter to PtoP KS, surely that can't be right ?


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## Caledonia (1 January 2015)

AdorableAlice said:



			I stumbled across a facebook group called 'Racehorses where are they now'.  It is so nice to see what they are up to.  Noland has just appeared and is looking fabulous.

I was shocked to read in a post earlier on that Paul Nicholls had plans for his daughter to PtoP KS, surely that can't be right ?
		
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Not right at all. He was to be Clifford's horse. 

As for this -

**Goodness me, so much vitriol in this thread and so many assumptions! Laura's a good rider with a lot of natural talent, I've seen her develop over a number of years from when she was a pony rider but she is still quite young. She's shown amazing courage to come back from her dreadful fall. Yogi is an excellent trainer with years and years of experience at the top level and he's known Laura since pony trials days and possibly before that, why wouldn't he recommend her. There's absolutely no evidence that KS was doped but Laura said in the video that she thought he'd be bright in the arena, over worked him in the warm up and he clearly "shut down" completely part way through the test. She doesn't wear spurs when she rides him and frankly pony club kicks won't have done him much harm, as to the "jabbing"it's probable that he's locked his neck to block his forwardness, I doubt she did any damage there either It just looked ugly and amateurish and unfortunately didn't achieve much. These are professions and I doubt they would have agreed to take KS to Olympia if he wasn't going nicely but he's a horse not a motorbike and it seemed he got complete stage fright. anyone who's regularly watched big competitions will have seen it with other horses. Laura's big mistake was to try to continue and it was the wrong call on this occasion. What a shame but hardly a hanging offence!**

Out of interest, how many doped horses have you watched being ridden? Would you know what they do? 

Are you not slightly disturbed, as is most of the professional eventing world, at the obsessive promotion of Laura by Breisner?


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## katherinef (1 January 2015)

KS would have done what worked so well for Desert Orchid and many others - gone out on the gallops, nanny'd the younger horses, paraded at racecourses. That's the ideal life for him.  Seeing this great horse at Olympia and being kicked and yanked in the gob was very upsetting.  He is just a vehicle  for those   who seem to have their own agenda. Very very sad.


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## oldie48 (1 January 2015)

As far as I'm aware I haven't seen any doped horses being ridden and would not make assertions on a public forum that one had been doped unless I had evidence that it had.  I have seen horses "shut down" in a competition environment though. Also. I'm not aware of there being "an obsessional promotion" of LC by YB therefore I can't be disturbed by it. It does seem to me though that perhaps there's another agenda going on here which I am not aware of!



Caledonia said:



			Not right at all. He was to be Clifford's horse. 

As for this -

**Goodness me, so much vitriol in this thread and so many assumptions! Laura's a good rider with a lot of natural talent, I've seen her develop over a number of years from when she was a pony rider but she is still quite young. She's shown amazing courage to come back from her dreadful fall. Yogi is an excellent trainer with years and years of experience at the top level and he's known Laura since pony trials days and possibly before that, why wouldn't he recommend her. There's absolutely no evidence that KS was doped but Laura said in the video that she thought he'd be bright in the arena, over worked him in the warm up and he clearly "shut down" completely part way through the test. She doesn't wear spurs when she rides him and frankly pony club kicks won't have done him much harm, as to the "jabbing"it's probable that he's locked his neck to block his forwardness, I doubt she did any damage there either It just looked ugly and amateurish and unfortunately didn't achieve much. These are professions and I doubt they would have agreed to take KS to Olympia if he wasn't going nicely but he's a horse not a motorbike and it seemed he got complete stage fright. anyone who's regularly watched big competitions will have seen it with other horses. Laura's big mistake was to try to continue and it was the wrong call on this occasion. What a shame but hardly a hanging offence!**

Out of interest, how many doped horses have you watched being ridden? Would you know what they do? 

Are you not slightly disturbed, as is most of the professional eventing world, at the obsessive promotion of Laura by Breisner?
		
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## Caledonia (1 January 2015)

I was referring to your comment where you said "There's absolutely no evidence that KS was doped" - I thought perhaps that you were basing that on experience of knowing what it would look like. And yes, as I said before, any post detailing the politics would not stay.


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## Tiffany (1 January 2015)

I'm not sure what she was asking him to do when her hands were all over the place and clearly he wasn't understanding either, I'm sure she would have totally embarrassed by the situation and whilst it would have been difficult, she would have been better getting off saying he was having an off day and she didn't want to push him.


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