# Fracking and horses



## mtj (18 April 2012)

Having seen the news this week that fracking is to be allowed, just wondering if this will have any affect on the local horses.

Does anyone know?

I do not live in the areas affected, just curious.


----------



## EAST KENT (18 April 2012)

Pardon?? Whatever are you talking about??


----------



## perfect11s (18 April 2012)

mtj said:



			Having seen the news this week that fracking is to be allowed, just wondering if this will have any affect on the local horses.

Does anyone know?

I do not live in the areas affected, just curious.
		
Click to expand...

 Yes  it will if the companys find gas !!!
horse owners will have more money to spend once we arnt paying over the odds to russians  for gas and hopefully the rich people wont get  a fortune anymore for having a windmill farm on there land so electricity bills as well as gas will be cheaper or not go up as much. Seriouly its worked in the states and a lot has been learnt so hopfully we will reap the benifits of cheaper energy and the economic growth we desperately need to ballance the economy...


----------



## starr_g (18 April 2012)

OP is talking about this http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/apr/17/whats-the-truth-about-fracking

I don't know how it will affect horses but don't think it would be great for them in the next field.


----------



## HBM1 (18 April 2012)

I am confused by the whole thing.  Yesterday there was an "expert" on Sky News saying people won't even be aware of it, yet how come then there were earthquakes last year which were definitely felt.  I think if they start up again and there are more earthquakes they will have to stop.  Horses are very sensitive to earth movement so there has to be a possibility of them being disturbed - unless you believe said expert of course!


----------



## stencilface (18 April 2012)

I think there is some bad press about fracking (gas coming out of taps and setting on fire) but I don't know enough to comment on how often that happens etc.

I can only think its a good thing tbh,  I'm a bit concerned about how they do it though, they pump concrete in to displace the gas - I always thought it was water!

Apparently the earthquakes are due to the earth settling out, and becoming more stable due to the pumping in of the concrete stabilising the shale.


----------



## perfect11s (18 April 2012)

HBM1 said:



			I am confused by the whole thing.  Yesterday there was an "expert" on Sky News saying people won't even be aware of it, yet how come then there were earthquakes last year which were definitely felt.  I think if they start up again and there are more earthquakes they will have to stop.  Horses are very sensitive to earth movement so there has to be a possibility of them being disturbed - unless you believe said expert of course!
		
Click to expand...

 The UK has always suffered minor earth tremours  so maybe most horses will hardly notice even if the process causes the odd one it sounds like it wont do much and they seem to be making the contrators monitor  and report any sismic activity..


----------



## Django Django (4 June 2014)

The only way to find answers to this is to look at the effects it's had on horses in the US, so upon research I came across horse deaths, blindness quite common, hair loss, birth defects (goat gave birth to just a head?!...very scary) and horses refusing to drink water. These are mostly in cases where gas pipes have leaked which most do within 10 years as the concrete they fill the wells in with breaks and the toxic chemicals seep into to water table...and into your water troughs and taps. So cheaper gas? Not sure it will be any cheaper lets see. More money for horse owners?...is that excluding vets bills for these illnesses possibly caused by fracking? There are also 'renewable energies' that wouldn't in any way harm your horses but the government don't seem too keen to investigate those. Let's wait and see, I'm in shale free Cornwall but still concerned for other horse owners across the rest of the country. Here is one report solely from Pennsylvania on fracking issues with humans and livestock. 
http://pennsylvaniaallianceforcleanwaterandair.wordpress.com/the-list/


----------



## MerrySherryRider (4 June 2014)

If those who like the idea of fracking, move their horses and homes nearby, everyone will be happy. They secretly did some exploratory test drilling a mile from my yard which was kept very quiet by the council. I only knew because a local farmer was aware of it. 
I do not want toxic chemicals pumped into the earth and the fluid left in open pits to evaporate into the environment, or leeched into the water supply. I do not want my horses grazing on polluted ground or refusing to drink the water. I do not want to eat the meat or the produce grown in fracking areas. 

We live on a tiny, densely populated island. There is no room for polluting our environment or having tremors affecting buildings. 

Give me the beauty of beautiful turbines anyday.


----------



## Dobiegirl (4 June 2014)

I think one of the biggest worries is they can frack under your house without your permission, its ironic that a french country are doing the fracking and yet it is banned in France. As you can see Im dead against fracking, have read lots about it and once those chemicals get into the water we are screwed. Lots of info from US saying about spikes of deformed or stillborn babies in the fracking areas.


----------



## Pigeon (4 June 2014)

I am dead against it too. Too much research has been done to brush these incidences off as paranoia. We need a big protest or something. Not that our government has a history of listening when people protest... It just seems such a shame to ****** up such a beautiful country so much, in such an irreversible fashion...


----------



## Fides (4 June 2014)

Does anyone know if there are any regulations if you have ground water as your only water source? I have a bore hole for water and am worried about water contamination.


----------



## Goldenstar (4 June 2014)

As to the mini quakes I doubt the horses will worry ,mine where fine when the quarry next to their field collapsed taking a chunk of the field with it the noise was incredible and I felt the ground move from outside the house 400 metres away.
As for fracking it's coming I fear we have no choice if we keep increasing the population in a country short of resources .


----------



## cobgoblin (4 June 2014)

Apparently there's not much gas in the uk, it's oil they're after. There's masses of it under Southern England , but there are also huge aquifers that supply a great deal of our water. I want to know where our water is going to come from when they've polluted the aquifer with their chemicals.are we going to end up importing water at great expense?


----------



## fburton (5 June 2014)

cobgoblin said:



			.are we going to end up importing water at great expense?
		
Click to expand...

From an independent Scotland? Whoopee! :frown3:


----------



## Django Django (5 June 2014)

There is a lot more info online and it all suggests it's not looking good for animals. The main problem being that they sit the used chemical water in pools to evaporate..in this country..evaporation is out of the question, were on constant flood alert at the moment! so where will the chemicals go? On to pasture and crops? Seems so stupid to sell the fracking idea as a way for us to have an independent energy supply when we may need to become dependent on food from elsewhere? I've just joined the #talkfracking debate to learn more. From what I've read so far...give me wind turbines any day..this does not look good for horse owners &#128563;


----------



## Django Django (5 June 2014)

Fides said:



			Does anyone know if there are any regulations if you have ground water as your only water source? I have a bore hole for water and am worried about water contamination.
		
Click to expand...

We have NO RIGHTS whatsoever regarding fracking on our land, see the Queens speech yesterday. All we can do is protest it looks like. Strange that a horse lover such as the Queen would put this bill forward? France who ironically created the technology to frack have banned it for environmental reasons..maybe I'll move there!


----------



## cobgoblin (5 June 2014)

Django Django said:



			We have NO RIGHTS whatsoever regarding fracking on our land, see the Queens speech yesterday. All we can do is protest it looks like. Strange that a horse lover such as the Queen would put this bill forward? France who ironically created the technology to frack have banned it for environmental reasons..maybe I'll move there!
		
Click to expand...

The Queen is told what to say, she has no control over the content . The Queen's Speech is an excercise in the subjugation of the monarchy.


----------



## chestnut cob (5 June 2014)

All of those who are opposed to fracking, please take a look at this 38degrees campaign and write to your MP:

https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/page/speakout/fracking-queen-s-speech-day


----------



## chestnut cob (5 June 2014)

Django Django said:



			We have NO RIGHTS whatsoever regarding fracking on our land, see the Queens speech yesterday. All we can do is protest it looks like. Strange that a horse lover such as the Queen would put this bill forward? France who ironically created the technology to frack have banned it for environmental reasons..maybe I'll move there!
		
Click to expand...

Not quite true... this bill has to be voted for by MPs first, to pass as law.  You can write to your MP to ask them to vote against it: https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/page/speakout/fracking-queen-s-speech-day


----------



## Django Django (5 June 2014)

Fides said:



			Does anyone know if there are any regulations if you have ground water as your only water source? I have a bore hole for water and am worried about water contamination.
		
Click to expand...




chestnut cob said:



			Not quite true... this bill has to be voted for by MPs first, to pass as law.  You can write to your MP to ask them to vote against it: https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/page/speakout/fracking-queen-s-speech-day

Click to expand...

Thanks for the link &#128540;


----------



## Django Django (5 June 2014)

Another concerning article in today's paper..

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/fracking-risk-drinking-water-greater-3643966


----------



## HelenHH (25 June 2015)

perfect11s said:



			Yes  it will if the companys find gas !!!
horse owners will have more money to spend once we arnt paying over the odds to russians  for gas and hopefully the rich people wont get  a fortune anymore for having a windmill farm on there land so electricity bills as well as gas will be cheaper or not go up as much. Seriouly its worked in the states and a lot has been learnt so hopfully we will reap the benifits of cheaper energy and the economic growth we desperately need to ballance the economy...
		
Click to expand...

Britain buy gas from Norway.


----------



## hackneylass2 (26 June 2015)

I think that the threats of fracking have been over reported really.  People in the past had coalmines under their houses.

I would have thought that wave/tide power would have been exploited more here, and I am all for that, but fracking ?   I don't believe all the negatives but I don't know all the facts.  I seriously doubt that anyone really knows unless they are an industry expert.  The uk is, like the majority of countries in the world, subject to siesmic events and reports of birth defects etc I cannot really see are all down to fracking, these things happen naturally as Mother Nature, like everything else, is not perfect.


----------



## fburton (26 June 2015)

hackneylass2 said:



			I think that the threats of fracking have been over reported really.  People in the past had coalmines under their houses.
		
Click to expand...

I had too, until they were filled in - for which I had to contribute £5000 towards the cost of the work.




			I would have thought that wave/tide power would have been exploited more here, and I am all for that, but fracking ?   I don't believe all the negatives but I don't know all the facts.  I seriously doubt that anyone really knows unless they are an industry expert.  The uk is, like the majority of countries in the world, subject to siesmic events and reports of birth defects etc I cannot really see are all down to fracking, these things happen naturally as Mother Nature, like everything else, is not perfect.
		
Click to expand...

Even if the fracking process caused no direct damage at all, the arguments for leaving that additional source of carbon in the ground are quite strong _if_ our government is serious about climate change targets, which they may well not be (despite what they say and sign)!

http://www.monbiot.com/2013/03/14/frozen-assets/


----------



## ycbm (26 June 2015)

perfect11s said:



			Yes  it will if the companys find gas !!!
horse owners will have more money to spend once we arnt paying over the odds to russians  for gas and hopefully the rich people wont get  a fortune anymore for having a windmill farm on there land so electricity bills as well as gas will be cheaper or not go up as much. Seriouly its worked in the states and a lot has been learnt so hopfully we will reap the benifits of cheaper energy and the economic growth we desperately need to ballance the economy...
		
Click to expand...

It hasn't worked in the States, it's a load of hype. The wells are not economically viable and they are finding that they dry up much quicker than they had expected and they have to drill again and again.


----------



## hollyandivy123 (26 June 2015)

Fracking is the process of drilling down into the earth before a high-pressure water mixture is directed at the rock to release the gas inside. Water, sand and chemicals are injected into the rock at high pressure which allows the gas to flow out to the head of the well.

so we are going to use excess water to remove the gas and then there is the idea of chemicals being pumped into the rock to release the gas, which potentially end up in the ground water supply.......lovely

how about more renewable energy, although i do believe a ukip candidate did ask the question what happens when renewable energy runs out, which is all in all a different argument


----------



## case895 (27 June 2015)

We used to mine coal out from deep underground. Fracking is just the modern equivalent. We need energy and this is one way of obtaining it.


----------



## fatpiggy (10 July 2015)

Django Django said:



			The only way to find answers to this is to look at the effects it's had on horses in the US, so upon research I came across horse deaths, blindness quite common, hair loss, birth defects (goat gave birth to just a head?!...very scary) and horses refusing to drink water. These are mostly in cases where gas pipes have leaked which most do within 10 years as the concrete they fill the wells in with breaks and the toxic chemicals seep into to water table...and into your water troughs and taps. So cheaper gas? Not sure it will be any cheaper lets see. More money for horse owners?...is that excluding vets bills for these illnesses possibly caused by fracking? There are also 'renewable energies' that wouldn't in any way harm your horses but the government don't seem too keen to investigate those. Let's wait and see, I'm in shale free Cornwall but still concerned for other horse owners across the rest of the country. Here is one report solely from Pennsylvania on fracking issues with humans and livestock. 
http://pennsylvaniaallianceforcleanwaterandair.wordpress.com/the-list/

Click to expand...

Cornwall is hardly shale-free - its local name is Killas.  But it probably doesn't include oil-shale and the intrusion of the granite batholiths would have cooked it, most likely.


----------



## fatpiggy (10 July 2015)

Django Django said:



			We have NO RIGHTS whatsoever regarding fracking on our land, see the Queens speech yesterday. All we can do is protest it looks like. Strange that a horse lover such as the Queen would put this bill forward? France who ironically created the technology to frack have banned it for environmental reasons..maybe I'll move there!
		
Click to expand...

We have no rights whatsoever about any mineral rights under our land.  If they found coal under my house (very likely, I had to have coal surveys done when I was buying it) they would be within their rights to tunnel under me and haul it out.  If you have been lucky enough to live in an area that has been untouched by industrialisation then you are probably rightly concerned, but half of the population has either mining, quarrying or pottery making on their doorstop and the world hasn't stopped spinning. I grew up in Cornwall with granite quarrying at one end, and tin/copper mining at the other end of the same parish.  The scars are there for all to see but now nature has softened them and we regard them as wonderful local assets for walkers, nature lovers and horse riders.  Now I live in the NW and until quite recently there were coal mines within two miles of my office on the edge of the centre of Manchester.  There are lots of old small scale pits and workings around the area.  At one point one of the major mines in Manchester was going to be extended until it caused subsidence in the housing estate directly above and the work had to cease.   Go out to Buxton and half the hills have been quarried away and this is still ongoing.  We live with the lorries trundling to and from the quarries on the local roads.  Of course, without the quarrying there wouldn't be building materials or even decent road surfaces.  It is all about the needs of the many.  Today's standards are way higher and all worked ground has to be returned to how it was originally and industry pays a huge amount of money for planning and actioning remedial work.

Anyway, as regards fracking, don't hold your breath. It is years away assuming it gets the green light.


----------



## Goldenstar (10 July 2015)

fburton said:



			I had too, until they were filled in - for which I had to contribute £5000 towards the cost of the work.


Even if the fracking process caused no direct damage at all, the arguments for leaving that additional source of carbon in the ground are quite strong _if_ our government is serious about climate change targets, which they may well not be (despite what they say and sign)!

http://www.monbiot.com/2013/03/14/frozen-assets/

Click to expand...

I don't understand the climate change advantage in using gas that you have bought from others verses using your own .


----------



## RunToEarth (10 July 2015)

fatpiggy said:



			We have no rights whatsoever about any mineral rights under our land.
		
Click to expand...

That isn't true - land owners around the UK make a fortune out of mineral extraction every single year. The minerals reserved by the Crown are oil, gas, coal, gold and silver. The rest is owned either by the current landowner or whichever sensible person reserved the mineral or manorial rights when they sold the land.


----------



## fburton (10 July 2015)

Goldenstar said:



			I don't understand the climate change advantage in using gas that you have bought from others verses using your own .
		
Click to expand...

Having to pay more money means you're less likely to use it and more likely to seek alternatives?


----------



## fatpiggy (15 July 2015)

Django Django said:



			There is a lot more info online and it all suggests it's not looking good for animals. The main problem being that they sit the used chemical water in pools to evaporate..in this country..evaporation is out of the question, were on constant flood alert at the moment! so where will the chemicals go? On to pasture and crops? Seems so stupid to sell the fracking idea as a way for us to have an independent energy supply when we may need to become dependent on food from elsewhere? I've just joined the #talkfracking debate to learn more. From what I've read so far...give me wind turbines any day..this does not look good for horse owners &#55357;&#56883;
		
Click to expand...

Except that you apply to put up a turbine or two and all the "its going to ruin my view" protesters start shouting.  Personally I like turbines since - many of my big local farms are up in the hills and I think lend something to the already stark landscape,  and I think wave power has a lot going for it.


----------



## Goldenstar (15 July 2015)

fatpiggy said:



			Except that you apply to put up a turbine or two and all the "its going to ruin my view" protesters start shouting.  Personally I like turbines since - many of my big local farms are up in the hills and I think lend something to the already stark landscape,  and I think wave power has a lot going for it.
		
Click to expand...

Unless your a migrating fish or a seal .


----------



## fatpiggy (17 July 2015)

Goldenstar said:



			Unless your a migrating fish or a seal .
		
Click to expand...



Collateral damage unfortunately.  I don't see anyone complaining about the number of birds killed by planes, or by cars on the roads.  Rightly or wrongly, there will always be casualties associated with human endeavour.


----------



## ozpoz (17 July 2015)

Our water supplies are far,far more precious than the short term gain from fracking.
 It is a filthy industry and there is no way of knowing where the drilling chemicals, which include cyanide, will end up and no way to protect groundwater or land. Pipes do fracture, and joins leak,and it is mad to think otherwise.

It will waste and devastate our rural landscape. Unsupportable.


----------



## cremedemonthe (17 July 2015)

I don't like the idea of fracking, never have, they have just found a MASSIVE source of oil I think it is under an area near  Horley, not very far from me.Right under a horse stud farm, feel sorry for them.
 Here where I live on the North Downs we live on a 800 foot bore hole straight in to the chalk, fresh spring water on tap brought up via the local pumping station, if they muck that up we are in big trouble.
WHY don't the government invest more in solar, wind turbines, water power and the often neglected GEO THERMAL which is always on tap, no variations as in wind, water or solar power, it's 100% constant.
Our local park has a pavilion now tapped in to Geo Thermal to heat it, best thing our local council have ever done.
Silent and efficient.

If you are wondering if there is proposed fracking near you look here, scroll the map out to define it
http://frack-off.org.uk/locations/


----------



## Dobiegirl (17 July 2015)

There are loads of anti fracking groups on fb some of which Ive joined, the government is no longer going to subsidise renewables and seem hell bent on pushing fracking which anyone with an ounce of common sense can see its madness. They are being subsidised by the government too.


----------



## ycbm (17 July 2015)

Define massive?  I'll bet they can't actually get at more than a fraction of what they think is there, and I'll bet it wouldn't even supply one day of world consumption.  The figures they announce are the total that 'might' be there, bear no relationship to what can economically or technologically be extracted, and are  designed primarily to bump up the share price of the company planning to extract it.


----------



## YorksG (17 July 2015)

As always, follow the money, there is obviously more to be made by the big corprations from fossil fuel (not yorkshire coal, obviously) than from renewables.


----------



## lovingMypups (18 July 2015)

the companies who do fracking don't even disclose what liquid the pump down in our dear earth. This also causes mini earth quakes and the quality of drinking water goes down in drain.


----------



## ycbm (18 July 2015)

lovingMypups said:



			the companies who do fracking don't even disclose what liquid the pump down in our dear earth.
		
Click to expand...

https://fracfocus.org/chemical-use/what-chemicals-are-used


----------



## lovingMypups (18 July 2015)

ycbm said:



https://fracfocus.org/chemical-use/what-chemicals-are-used

Click to expand...

ok great, this disclosure must eb recent cause before ( or at least in the US ) they said the formula is a secret. but now that we know whats being pumped down in the earth, who thinks that all these chemicals would not ruin our water supply?


----------



## cremedemonthe (19 July 2015)

ycbm said:



			Define massive?  I'll bet they can't actually get at more than a fraction of what they think is there, and I'll bet it wouldn't even supply one day of world consumption.  The figures they announce are the total that 'might' be there, bear no relationship to what can economically or technologically be extracted, and are  designed primarily to bump up the share price of the company planning to extract it.
		
Click to expand...

UK Oil & Gas Investments (UKOG) has stated its analysis of the Horse Hill well suggests the local area could hold 158 million barrels of oil per square mile.

But only a fraction of the 100 billion total would be recovered, the firm admits.

MASSIVE enough for you?


----------



## fburton (20 July 2015)

cremedemonthe said:



			But only a fraction of the 100 billion total would be recovered, the firm admits.
		
Click to expand...

Would or _should_ be recovered. I bet they didn't use the second word.


----------



## ycbm (20 July 2015)

cremedemonthe said:



			UK Oil & Gas Investments (UKOG) has stated its analysis of the Horse Hill well suggests the local area could hold 158 million barrels of oil per square mile.

But only a fraction of the 100 billion total would be recovered, the firm admits.

MASSIVE enough for you?
		
Click to expand...

Total recoverable oil would be a few weeks world supply then, at well over 80 million barrels a day.  In the scale of things, no, not massive at all, we need as a planet to learn to live without it.

You also need to question who is saying that much is even there, and what the financial benefit to them is to have people believe that there is that much there. You also need to look at America where fracking wells are drying up years earlier than expected, requiring new wells to be drilled and completely destroying the economic proposition of running frack operations at all at the current time.


----------



## cremedemonthe (22 July 2015)

ycbm said:



			Total recoverable oil would be a few weeks world supply then, at well over 80 million barrels a day.  In the scale of things, no, not massive at all, we need as a planet to learn to live without it.

You also need to question who is saying that much is even there, and what the financial benefit to them is to have people believe that there is that much there. You also need to look at America where fracking wells are drying up years earlier than expected, requiring new wells to be drilled and completely destroying the economic proposition of running frack operations at all at the current time.
		
Click to expand...

Massive for Surrey though not talking about the world here are we!
There are plenty of horse owners in Surrey, Sussex and Kent who don't want to find out when it's too late if fracking affects their horses, what ever the amount is in there.


----------

