# Giant Schnauzer puppy - first time owner needs help!



## fairhill (13 October 2010)

Hi all, 
I'm venturing in here for the first time on behalf of my friend who has just got a giant schnauzer puppy, and is having a tough time adjusting to being a dog owner  He was the biggest in the litter, and is about 15 weeks old. Puppy training classes start tomorrow, but in the meantime I suggested that the HHO dog experts might have some practical advice to help her out. 

This was her email this morning:




			Well, hes sleeping at the minute in the office basket, hurrah!  Not before hes peed twice in the office, once in the kitchen (both times after refusing to go outside then going as soon as he got in), he walked up the road much better after Ive started sitting down in the road with him when he does and waiting (seems to make him move a lot quicker), hes nipped me loads, wont stop chewing his lead and has been growling loads because I wont give him more food even tho hes having the amount a 15 kg dog should have (hes just under 10 kg).

So many people say bribe with food and so many others say dont as theyll always expect it and will go all bolshie when you stop giving the treats. Just taken him to the vet about his stomach and she agreed with me that he may have a food allergy.  

Am very tired, woke just before 2 and not been back to sleep.  Can see some improvement in him but this biting thing is really p#ing me off  he only does it to me and I know hes trying it on but am getting sick of it.  Just dont know what to do other then what Im already doing  giving him back to the breeder is certainly an option!!
		
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So if anyone can suggest things that will help with the biting/toilet training/walking that would be great. She has tried posting on a dog forum, but hasn't had any replies, so I said I'd try on here because I know how helpful everyone is 

Strangely enough my attempts to help with vague comparisons to horse and child behaviour are not much use to her


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## Cedars (13 October 2010)

Ugh god I remember those days!

Toilet training, fuss like a baby when going outside, ignore completely when inside. Buy a good smell neutraliser otherwise he'll just keep peeing in the same place.

Walking sounds like she is already doing the right thing (is he just sitting down and refusing to walk?) And playing in the garden etc is good also.

Biting, either ignore, smack on the nose or scream in a high pitched wail when he gets her. TBH for us all three worked with Chloe - mostly ignored, if she was really bad she got a smack on the nose, and if she did it when we were playing we squealed as thats how pups tell each other they've gone too far in the pack. 

Good luck! These days do get easier!


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## CorvusCorax (13 October 2010)

OK well first - chill - he is only 15 weeks, still a baby so tell her to keep calm.
A food allergy diagnosed at 15 weeks? Unusual!
He is tiny and doesn't know right from wrong, and passing him 'pissed off' vibes will not help the situation.

Giant schnozzles can be tricky dogs so she will have to be prepared to work hard with him.

He sounds like a dog that will need to be crate trained, Cayla on here is the expert!

Walks at this stage are for toileting, teaching lead manners and socialisation (cars, bikes, people, dogs) only - he is still small and his bones are only forming and you can do untold damage by overexertion at this age - to tire them as pups, play ball, play hide and seek, get their brains working, large breeds can only take very high impact exercise (long walks/runs/jogging/biking) after 12 months as their joints can be badly damaged otherwise.

Toileting can be helped by restricting the area in which he is given to pee (who wants to pee near their bed?!!) and restricting food and water at night.

Biting and mouthing is normal puppy behaviour.
She can stop doing what she is doing. Just stop. Ignore. Not moving is no fun on a walk.
She can coat the lead with a bitter product or for a short time use a chain lead, harder to chew  even though I think they are useless otherwise.
NEVER high-energy, high pitched, fussy behaviour as it turns it into a game.
She can issue a very low, growly, firm NO.
She can emit a high pitched squeak as if she has been hurt and turn away from him, upset.
She can offer him an alternative like a Kong or tug toy.
When I am being chewed I put my hand over the dog's muzzle and physically, calmly and firmly put him on the ground in a sitting position and don't release until the dog is calm. This happens every time until the dog learns that chewing me = stuck doing nothing and going nowhere.

I would also recommend a book called The Culture Clash by Jane Donaldson which explains how dogs and humans are not the same, they don't think the same, and why we need to stop expecting an animal with a much smaller brain than we have, to understand the intricacies of life we expect them to!


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## fairhill (13 October 2010)

Thank you both so much for the replies, she's very grateful. I keep telling her to join this forum directly, maybe this will persuade her!

With the walking he sits and watches something &#8211; could be a car, a house, something in the garden, people or an exciting looking leaf.


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## CorvusCorax (13 October 2010)

Well like I say he's a baby, he may be plonking because he's tired, he may want to sit and watch the world go by (walking and watching is hard work when you're that age), when he does that, she doesn't sit and wait for him, she gives him a lead check and he comes with her, don't give him the option to root himself to the spot.

Similarly with the growling, did she initially give him more food when he growled? What does a baby do when it is hungry? It cries. Do we fill the baby until it bursts? No, we don't tolerate sillyness, we ignore it.

Get her to join! Not my cup of tea personally but I think the giants are so gorgeous!


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## MurphysMinder (13 October 2010)

All good advice above, and I would also suggest your friend speaks to the breeder of the pup.  They should be happy to give advice, and may be able to offer help on things that might be peculiar to the breed.


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## CorvusCorax (13 October 2010)

Oh and one more thing, which SHOULD be covered at training class, now is a great age to start focus training so he is staring at his new mum, not leaves, people, dogs etc.

This is a C&P
When you're (she's!) watching telly, when you're at a loose end, focus, focus, focus. Short bursts every day, not just at training class and do your distractions at home, outside, in the park.
Training class is one day a week. Real training, the real work, happens every day.
ie when he is looking at you calmly, he gets a reward (high value treat or a play with ball) and the longer she holds your gaze, the bigger the reward. 
If he wants something - dinner, to go outside, a toy - he has to be looking at you.
Then once he is outside, start introducing distractions and again, the more he looks at you, the better, if he looks away, ignore her or use a vocal command to encourage him to look back.
If you have focus training in the bag from an early age, then things like livestock proofing, recall, other dogs etc will be so, so much easier because YOU are more interesting than any of those things. 

I also use handfeeding sometimes, where some or all of the food allowance for that morning or evening is fed from a pocket rather than in the floor on the bowl, as I am the source of the food, the dog works harder for it and is more inclined to pay attention/come back.

If the dog is bolshy and goes mad for food I wouldn't call that a bad thing, he will be more likely to work for food. All dogs have triggers, we need to work with them and harness them.


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## CAYLA (13 October 2010)

All fab advice so far, I have also PM'd you to offer you a rather lengthy puppy guide
In the office he really does need a crate, if he is getting out of the basket and pitting he must not be "being watched" and if she cannot use a crate in the office he needs a guide in order to give her the head up on where he is headed and immediately scoop him up an dtake him outdoors, this can be done with puppy pads at the door area, the idea is not to let him pish on them but when he heads that way, then she knows he needs the toilet, and at home when out he should be kept in the same room as owner so again when he shows signs of needing to spend a penny or a number 2 he was be taken out.

Crates are better form a training point as they help tackle a number of common scenarios that can occur, like toilt training, seperation issues, travelling in the car, and routine, they help immensely with routine, which is the msot important thing to establish when you get a puppy.

He needs play times, feed times, in your crate times, bed times, walk times this can make life so much easier, I took 2 terriers in yesterday and after putting 2 crates up I established a routine and even on their first night I was able to get up early let them out and go back to bed with a few quiet wimpers, I tend not to let them take over my life but instead have them "fit in" with mine.

Puppis do mouthe when their jaws are developing and as CC usually mentioned it soothes them, but they can sometimes take it a little too far and turn it into an attention thing, of which they get pleant of once they start
Its best to remove all attention "stroking ceases" the moment he starts getting bitey, Im also not adversed to givin a short sharp smack on the bottom (never the face) and also as suggested sig pacifiers, teething toys, chewey toys when he is sititing alone and attempting to nibble on random objests, a treat and toy box would be an idea for her to take in andNOT as we see so many times for the toys to be sprawled all over the floor he should only have max 2 things out to occupy him and they should be placed back in the box an next time swapped for something else, my puppis are in the yard right now with a ball and raggy rope, and when they go back into their crates when I go out they have a bone each filled with meat.
When I come home I let them out "no touch, or speaking to them" straight to toilet then they will get their food and be let out again 30 mins later then I will have a game of raggy with them to tire them out before a nap again in teir crates then I will walk them and we will see lots of animals, people, cars, trees, grass and everything that at first seems startling and scarey taking them in the doggy van to the destination, then home and tea time, and another nap in crates then toilet then some more play time in the sitting room and I jsut create a routine that covers everything until bed time and it all starts again in the morning.


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## fairhill (13 October 2010)

Thank you all so much for the fantastic advice. She's very grateful for your thoughts and help.


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## tysonsmam (19 October 2010)

HI

Came across this item by chance, having kept Giants myself can I just say she has a normal Giant puppy, baby really and the lady has to realise that they very much have minds of their own even at that age. They are different to other breeds like one horse it different to another and there are very caring people in the world of Giants who would give her a lot of help and advice. 

Can I suggest four things, she goes onto the website www.schnauzer-forum.co.uk/viewforum-php?f=9 and they will be pleased to help her. I don't know where this lady lives but if any of them live nearby I'm sure they will come and see him and give her tips.They are nearly all experienced Giant owners  and care deeply for the breed. Another suggestion is speak to the breeder, if they are any good they will give advice. Buy Victoria Stillwells book ' It's me of the dog'' her methods work but as I imagine with horses consitency and love will win in the end. 

Failing all else rehome him, go through the Giant Schnauzer rescue or the forum and they will ensure he goes to a lovely Giant home.

Please, please do not if the worst happens advertise him on any of the so called dog websites because then anyone can buy him and if he goes to an unsuitable home a Giant with problems can cause real trouble. 

I hope you don't think I'm being harsh I really feel for her, but I know that  Giants under control are the most fabulous dog to let you own them, belive me I know what I'm talking about. My boy Tyson was regarded as mentally damaged, he wasn;t just his first owners didn't fully understand Giants, we had twelve great years together.

Good luck 

Tysonsmam


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## Swayback (19 October 2010)

I have 3 Giants and they are fabulous dogs but do take  a lot training!

Currently have a pup (DOB 17.05.2010) - male probably weighs around 18kg now. He is coming along very well - Demanding but rewarding!

Good advice so far and can highly recommend the schnauzer forum!

Good Luck to her!


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