# Twin foals last night - both alive, just...



## AMH (9 May 2011)

Having been joking about the size of the mare and that it must have more than one (scanned with only one!), last night she delivered live twin fillies. One is up, almost unaided now, and we're hoping for the best. The other is hanging in there, taking a bottle and responsive, but not keen to get on her feet just yet.

Vets have suggested various options, but we're on a feeding rota for now and keeping everything crossed. Mum is being brilliant with the one that is up, and keeps just checking in on the other, but I think that one's down to us for the time being!

If anyone has any experience of coping with twins, any advice is gratefully received!

In the meantime, there's a vid on Youtube for anyone who'd like to see them - link below. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRfSJD1ygZU


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## Amymay (9 May 2011)

If you put this in Breeding you'll get a better response.


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## Baggybreeches (9 May 2011)

What beautiful fillies, I hope they both make it, the one of the floor looks like a belter. Fingers crossed x


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## hunting mad (9 May 2011)

The only thing i would say,and this is just my experience of twins born alive,is make sure you boost their immune systems as much as possible,as they always have weakened ones.
good luck


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## Devonshire dumpling (9 May 2011)

Has the one of the floor had any colostrum from mummy at all?  xx


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## maestro (9 May 2011)

As said immune systems are often compromised with twins Igg tests are vital I assume your vet has told you that.


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## Ladylina83 (9 May 2011)

Ditto Amy may - stick this in breeding. Did you get the vet yet ?? 

I know someone elso on here did have twins born alive last year


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## Kiribati_uk (9 May 2011)

Hard work but worth it in the end!! Call Johanna Vardon National Foaling Bank she is a fountain of knowledge!! GOODLUCK


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## RutlandH2O (9 May 2011)

Did you milk the mare, early on, to feed to the weaker foal? If not, there are, optimally, 8
hours when the gastrointestinal tract of the foal can absorb the colostrum. After 8 hours
that ability declines to 0 by 24 hours. As mentioned before by other posters, the vet 
should do an IgG test at 24 hours to ascertain the level of antibodies circulating in the foal.
While I have never had twins, one of my broodmares always waxes for about 10 days
before foaling. By the time the foal arrives, the paddock has been well and truly "fed"
with her precious colostrum, thus depriving the foal of protective antibodies. After that
first time, the vet had to administer antibody rich plasma. With subsequent foalings, I
collect and freeze the colostrum as soon as the mare starts to wax and feed it to her babies
as soon after birth as possible. I still have the IgG tests, but they have shown excellent
protection from the colostrum collected and fed.

Good luck with your beautiful babies!


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## ILuvCowparsely (9 May 2011)

wow beautiful babies  i hope they both make it  as mentioned check vet is happy with anti  bodies weaker foal has had


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## amandap (9 May 2011)

No advice but wishing them both the best. Fingers crossed.


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## millhouse (9 May 2011)

Good luck with the fillies.  They are so beautiful.  Let us know how they get on.


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## miskettie (9 May 2011)

I'm afraid I can't help at all - but I have my fingers crossed for you all.

Keep us posted. x


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## Spyda (9 May 2011)

DEFINITELY ask your vet to take bloods from both foals to test their IgG levels (if it's not already been done). Should only take a short time to get the results and a plasma transfusion can be arranged (sounds complicated, but really isn't too bad!) to boost either of the foals IgG levels should they need it. This'll guarantee the best start for them.

I also recommend Foal Assist http://www.baileyshorsefeeds.co.uk/whatproduct/stud/foalassist.htm, a brilliant product from my experience. 

Good luck with your two. No reason they shouldn't do well, if they're given the best chance.


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## AMH (9 May 2011)

Update - will try to answer everyone's questions through the fog of sleep deprivation...

Firstly, both still alive! One can suckle if we get her up on her feet, and she's had a little totter round the barn, wee and poo (mostly all over my jeans) and looking fairly bright, considering.

The 'weaker' one is still not able to stand, despite trying. We've had her up a few times and the limbs work, after a fashion! She's being bottle fed at the moment and seems to be taking some each time. She has attempted to suckle when we've supported her, and she does know where she's aiming.

The mare is being a total star, allowing us to milk, encouraging both of them once their up and positioning to allow them to feed. She's got BUCKETS of milk so we're just feeding that at the moment, little and often. She was running milk for a couple of weeks beforehand and so didn't have much in the way of colostrum, but we did have a bit left over from the foal born last week, so they have had some at least. Pretty resigned to plasma if we get them to tomorrow, but it could be worse...

The vet's seen them, they've had steroids and antibiotics and the colostrum was tubed in so we know they got at least that much. We've also been told that even now there will be some antibodies in the mare's milk, and since there's so much we'll stick with it. We were offered the option of taking the weaker one to intensive care, but we're told the mare would certainly reject it if it survived, and we've decided that we and Mum can offer them everything they need at home. They're both in dog coats (so cute!) and hot water bottles, so we'll just take it a feed at a time. Somehow, we'll get some sleep, but at least there are two of us. 

We're very lucky really, we've still got a very good mum and two foals alive, and anything more is a bonus.

Keep you posted...


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## Ladylina83 (9 May 2011)

Thank you sooo much for updating us ! I really do hope for the best in this situation ! xxx


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## Mariposa (9 May 2011)

Congratulations on the new arrivals, loved the video!


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## MrsMozart (9 May 2011)

Congatulations! Fingers are crossed for all three of them (and you and your Mum!).


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## SusieT (9 May 2011)

To be honest, intensive care does not mean mum will reject it unless it's done wrong! Being twins she may reject it anyway of course.
I would be strongly advising you have specialist advise on this, they need constant monitoring until they are reliably able to stand and nurse unassisted, not just two hourly feeds. If foal is not drinking a certain amount each hour (depends on weight/age etc. but a guide might be 200ml an hour for a small newborn on a gradual increase-ask your vet and if he doesn't know ring the intensive care place and ask them) then the milk needs tubed into the foal. If they don't get their nutritional requirements they will deteriorate. 
Have any blood tests been run? If mum ran milk for a 'few weeks' there is no guarantee the first milk you gave had any colostrum, and if it was frozen colostrum an IGG test is a very good idea too.
I am a little confused as to why on earth the vet gave antibiotics? Is this a decent equine vet (no slur on you, just that twin foals/sick foals are quit a specialist thing to rear and nurse intensively and your average equine vet who only sees adult horses regularly  may not be the best person to ring. Most referral centres will happily give advice to your vet over the phone)
They do look big and strong so fingers crossed for you.


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## henryhorn (9 May 2011)

Agree with the other advisors, an IGG test is vital as is milking the mare and syringing into the foal. We use a cut off syringe and it's really easy to do. 
Your best hope is get the dam's milk into them every chance you get, keep them warm (it's chilly overnight)and try and persuade the weaker one to move a bit, massage it's limbs and makesure it doesn't stay in the same position for hours. 
Good luck, our twins were born 6 weeks early so didn't survive, yours look like thay have a fighting chance.


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## Murphy88 (9 May 2011)

They both sound like they might be a bit dummy, the weaker one moreso, so if you have the funds available I would consider hospitalisation. I have known foals who appeared just weak at birth but who were totally dummy and seizuring by 48 hours old. That is not to say that the twins will go this way, just that with babies it is often better to be safe that sorry. However I realise that this can be prohibitively expensive, and it sounds as though you are making good progress with them at home. Proper NICU's should be set up so that the mare can still see and touch the foal, and I have only known a couple of mares reject their babies in these circumstances (one a maiden following a c-section, and one whose foal was 28 day premature and about as dummy as can be), 

As SusieT says, these foals take a lot of work - I have spent time in 2 big neonatal intensive care units in the USA, and these weak foals can often be 'bed babies' on mattresses for up to a week. It's a good sign that they are both trying to suckle though, hopefully they will continue going the right way. If the weaker one carries on unable to stand do you have a mattress for her to sleep on - they get sores very quickly even when small, so a mattress with 2 or 4 hourly turning would be ideal.

SusieT - I would consider antibiotics one of the most important things in foals like these, they are prime candidates for sepsis, and catching it early is the key to success, I would want broad spectrum cover from the start just incase.


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## AMH (9 May 2011)

We can only follow the vet's advice - we've certainly never done this before, and it was the vet who cautioned us against removing the weaker foal unless totally necessary. And at the moment, we think on balance she's better off near her mum and getting the proper stuff rather than formula.

Our vet has advised that they need between 1.2-1.8l of milk a day each for normal renal function and that over-feeding could be just as dangerous, or more so. They're both alert, the weaker one increasingly so it seems, and we're getting them up for 'physio' as often as we can, certainly every time they're fed (one's feeding itself anyway). IgG tests are done at 24 hours old, so that means leaving them until tomorrow morning, and if they need plasma then we'll get it down them, depending upon how they fair during the night. 

It's a fine balance between doing the right thing and doing either too much or not enough, but at the moment, they seem like they have every chance. We know that the odds of them both surviving are 15,000/1 - in fact the odds of them both being live births is 10,000/1 and they overcame that hurdle.

We're confident in our vet - I don't think even specialist stud vets (which ours is) see live twins many times in their careers, so we're being guided by his advice and what the foals' conditions are telling us.

A tip for anyone with cold foals - we bought them dog coats this morning, which are working a treat - here modelled by 'Blackie' (working title...)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBEMUwHPC3Q


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## amyneave (9 May 2011)

Best of luck. They both look lovely


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## smiffyimp (9 May 2011)

no advise, but I have everything crossed they both pull through. Mom of course deserves a huge bag of carrots, and likewise you deserve a huge bottle of wine Best of luckXXX


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## Frumpoon (9 May 2011)

How absolutely gorgeous, wishing you all the best...

Don't be discouraged by the weaker one being, well weaker...my big lad [the indestructible on] was rejected by his mum as a bab and was so weak he couldn't lie down...or get up, very close to death...BUT with round the clock care and leg massages, UV lamp and a foster mum he made it!!!! 

Now he's huge and hard as nails and my baby boy...


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## miss_bird (9 May 2011)

QR what pair of stunning fillies, fingers crossed they both pull through ok xx


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## angelish (9 May 2011)

no advice but will wake up thinking of them tomo and hoping there still here ,very best of luck to you


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## SusieT (9 May 2011)

I didn't mean taking the weaker one away-to hospitalise you would take mare and both foals to a vet hospital equipped for dealing with this.  A heat lamp is an excellent idea. Are you taking temperatures regularly? And ideally doing a Heart and Resp rate regularly as well? Catching any signs of deterioration early is one of the mst important points.
Of coruse you can only be guided but it is vital you get these first stages right. 1.8L seems extremely low to me and particularly as they get older. 
I am just trying to help as I have nursed sick foals (successfully) and it is so important to get it right, and so rewarding when it goes right. Sometimes with all the will in the world it doesn't go right, but you would kick yourself if you thought actually, we could have done something better or you discovered your vet was not as experienced as you thought.


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## AMH (9 May 2011)

Thank you everyone for your messages.

I've managed to have a dual thread going here, there's also updates on the Breeding section, thread called 'Twin Foals'.

Will sign off here and keep updating on that one - suffice it to say that they're still with us... xx


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