# OMG Clayton Fredericks Burghley XC



## sonjafoers (1 September 2012)

I've just been watching some of the rounds on Burghley.tv when I came across this one. It's not nice viewing & to make things worse his poor horse whinnies after the incident that eliminates them.

I know I'm soft but it nearly brought me to tears


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## Marydoll (1 September 2012)

Cant get in to view, what happened ?


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## DanaHart (1 September 2012)

What happened??


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## mahonenx (1 September 2012)

I didn't like the fact that he didn't even go over and see his horse, who could have done with a pat. He just stood there and let the steward go.

In contrast, Sam Penn who had a very similar fall jumped straight up to check her horse was ok.

Will Faudree fell and then went over and gave his horse a kiss...its nice to see the riders caring about their horse rather than appearing annoyed they have fallen.


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## tallyho! (1 September 2012)

OOff!!!!! Flippin' eck. both of them must be so winded. If that was me and I was standing, I'd be scrambling down to check me horse was ok though. That could have been one hell of an accident. Poor horse.. was just too tired to get over.Could have taken both legs out and the sternum/chest must be very bruised. DO hope the horse is doing okay after that. That impact actually broke the fence!


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## sonjafoers (1 September 2012)

They come into a big fence with a ditch in front & Walterstown Don takes off but hits the fence hard with his front legs. Clayton gets thrown over the fence but the horse falls back into the ditch and is spreadeagled for a second.

When he gets up he sort of whinnies, it's horrible to watch but he does seem to be ok when he walks off. Clayton gets up though and doesn't even look back over the fence to see how his horse is


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## sonjafoers (1 September 2012)

mahonenx said:



			I didn't like the fact that he didn't even go over and see his horse, who could have done with a pat. He just stood there and let the steward go.
		
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Just crossed with mine, I was appalled.


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## Jingleballs (1 September 2012)

mahonenx said:



			I didn't like the fact that he didn't even go over and see his horse, who could have done with a pat. He just stood there and let the steward go.

In contrast, Sam Penn who had a very similar fall jumped straight up to check her horse was ok.

Will Faudree fell and then went over and gave his horse a kiss...its nice to see the riders caring about their horse rather than appearing annoyed they have fallen.
		
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Just watched this and was also disappointed with the casual way he dealt with it - seemed more interested in finding where he'd dropped his whip as the steward lead his horse away.


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## mahonenx (1 September 2012)

Its hard to see when the riders lack compassion. I mean, I can understand he was frustrated as he was in a good place, but it really doesn't look good when he didn't seem to even bother to check his horse was ok.


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## Marydoll (1 September 2012)

sonjafoers said:



			They come into a big fence with a ditch in front & Walterstown Don takes off but hits the fence hard with his front legs. Clayton gets thrown over the fence but the horse falls back into the ditch and is spreadeagled for a second.

When he gets up he sort of whinnies, it's horrible to watch but he does seem to be ok when he walks off. Clayton gets up though and doesn't even look back over the fence to see how his horse is 

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Lets put it down to shock at the fall, as to be so uncaring about a horse after an accident like that would be disgusting and id like to think he's better than that


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## Oberon (1 September 2012)

Was he is shock?

That could explain his behaviour.....


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## mahonenx (1 September 2012)

marydoll said:



			Lets put it down to shock at the fall, as to be so uncaring about a horse after an accident like that would be disgusting and id like to think he's better than that
		
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I hope so, but I would like to think as an experienced rider who has fallen many times maybe he should have visibly been more concerned.


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## Sarah Sum1 (1 September 2012)

Poor horse!  Just watched the Sam Penn one too and it looks to me as though that is a hideous jump! 

Her reaction was one of a mother


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## joeanne (1 September 2012)

Oberon said:



			Was he is shock?

That could explain his behaviour.....
		
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He had a nasty fall not so long ago that landed him in hospital.
Glad they both appear to have been unhurt.


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## spottyfilly (1 September 2012)

I was shocked at his lack of compassion for his horse, the whinny made me really upset, he must have been really hurt. After his fall at the olympics then this, dont think hes having a great year. No excuse for not checking if he was ok though


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## Crazy_cat_lady (1 September 2012)

Must admit I'm not particularly keen on him in general, didn't see any of it but he should have checked on the horse before anything else esp as he was the other side of the fence.

Like the fact Will Faudre gave horse a kiss.

What happened to Mary King looked at scores and seen she was eliminated?


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## Marydoll (1 September 2012)

mahonenx said:



			I hope so, but I would like to think as an experienced rider who has fallen many times maybe he should have visibly been more concerned.
		
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If youre in shock, you can behave quite bizzarely, having dealt with a couple in a car accident, whilst waiting for the ambulance for his pregnant wife who was still in the front seat of the car conscious but with a head wound, her husband paced back and forth worrying about his chips getting cold 
Iys not that he didnt care, he was in shock after the incident.
Clayton might not have known whether it was new york of new year


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## xRobyn (1 September 2012)

It seemed quite the opposite at the olympics, he showed a lot of care to Bendigo after their fall.


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## Lizzie2106 (1 September 2012)

I know him and have seen how he is around his horses, and I think it was more due to shock than anything else, because he definitely cares about them. And yes, maybe he's an experienced rider, but 3 months ago, he fell and ended up spending 1 week in hospital, then fell at the Olympics, can you imagine how he must be feeling? 
Moreover, he patted him when they were reunited, so it's not as if he didn't care at all.


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## Jingleballs (1 September 2012)

Sarah Sum1 said:



			Poor horse!  Just watched the Sam Penn one too and it looks to me as though that is a hideous jump! 

Her reaction was one of a mother 

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I saw that too - she had barely hit the ground and she was up shouting for him.  Horrible jump - hope the pony is ok!


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## holzrokz (1 September 2012)

both could have been aweful falls! Poor horses  I have to say really didn't like clayton's reaction, although you never know he could have been winded/in shock. His poor horse looked very shacken and winneyed as if to say 'ow that really hurt!'

Sam Penn was pretty much hysterical about her horse! As soon as she the ground she she was up and went straight to him to see if he was ok. I admire people that do that.


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## mahonenx (1 September 2012)

Mary King had a stop at the last part of Discovery Valley and then retired.


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## sonjafoers (1 September 2012)

You can clearly hear her shouting for her horse, it really does hilight the difference between the 2 riders.

I heard recently that Clayton was lets just say 'unprofessional' at a recent BS event he attended so I'm not sure now how much he does care for his horses. I was a fan after the Horse & Country series but now I'm not so sure.


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## Marydoll (1 September 2012)

holzrokz said:



			both could have been aweful falls! Poor horses  I have to say really didn't like clayton's reaction, although you never know he could have been winded/in shock. His poor horse looked very shacken and winneyed as if to say 'ow that really hurt!'

Sam Penn was pretty much hysterical about her horse! As soon as she the ground she she was up and went straight to him to see if he was ok. I admire people that do that.
		
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If youre in shock, youre not in control of your actions
Sam has possibly dealt with her fall better because she had a better landing, who knows, plus Clayton has had a couple of nasty ones close together, mabe he was worried to look round for fear of what he might see


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## FlaxenPony05 (1 September 2012)

It looked like shock from Fredericks more than anything else. He looked winded from a really nasty fall, but I agree, he certainly should have been more caring towards the horse. Horrible fall.


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## sonjafoers (1 September 2012)

marydoll said:



			Clayton has had a couple of nasty ones close together, mabe he was worried to look round for fear of what he might see
		
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Sorry but I think this is absolute rubbish - he spends an amount of time walking around & doesn't even look at the horse & even looks like he is smiling at the steward at the end of the clip. That's not someone in fear of what they might see.

Rant over, let's just say I am appalled & disgusted as I'm sure a lot of us are. He's possibly lost quite a few fans today.


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## Mickeymoo (1 September 2012)

It's more than likely not his horse and clearly doesn't give a dam. :-(


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## Mongoose11 (1 September 2012)

I happened to be at some fairly low key showjumping a couple of months ago and the Team Fredericks were all there as the children were competing. He and his son sat behind me as my friend completed a very satisfactory clear round where her young, big (out for experience) mare went beautifully. The young Fredericks boy proclaimed rather loudly 'she's going far too slow, that horse isn't a jumper it should do dressage'. Father said nothing whereas I wanted to poke small boy in the eye. Whole family were very gobby and for some reason when the daughter was eliminated the judge let her back in with her mother coaching her round. I am not completely heartless and great for the girl but I can't help thinking that I hadn't seen anyone else be given the privilege. I'm not keen.


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## mahonenx (1 September 2012)

I wondered if he was worried about what he might see. You can hear how hard he hit the fence.
But, the concern should have taken priority and he certainly didn't give anyone a good impression of himself today.


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## Marydoll (1 September 2012)

sonjafoers said:



			Sorry but I think this is absolute rubbish - he spends an amount of time walking around & doesn't even look at the horse & even looks like he is smiling at the steward at the end of the clip. That's not someone in fear of what they might see.

Rant over, let's just say I am appalled & disgusted as I'm sure a lot of us are. He's possibly lost quite a few fans today.
		
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Youve obviously never dealt with someone in shock then have you ??


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## monkeybum13 (1 September 2012)

Well from what I was watching he looked in shock, hope they're both ok. 

From reading this thread anyone would think he got up and went for a coffee and a chat before going to see his horse!


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## amage (1 September 2012)

To be fair he seemed to walk to the edge of the ditch to walk down and i guess if camera angle panned out you'd have seen that steward had horse already. He patted horse as he was led out and then paramedic came to talk to him. However, the horse didn't look to be travelling or enjoying himself at all from a fair way out, he clattered the house and white oxer fairly hard in front and behind and Clayton looked to be missing stone blind at this fence. Even earlier on course when he stoked him up he seemed to get very little reaction


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## SpottedCat (1 September 2012)

Billie1007 said:



			I happened to be at some fairly low key showjumping a couple of months ago and the Team Fredericks were all there as the children were competing. He and his son sat behind me as my friend completed a very satisfactory clear round where her young, big (out for experience) mare went beautifully. The young Fredericks boy proclaimed rather loudly 'she's going far too slow, that horse isn't a jumper it should do dressage'. Father said nothing whereas I wanted to poke small boy in the eye. Whole family were very gobby and for some reason when the daughter was eliminated the judge let her back in with her mother coaching her round. I am not completely heartless and great for the girl but I can't help thinking that I hadn't seen anyone else be given the privilege. I'm not keen.
		
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Did anyone else ask? It's not uncommon to go back in HC and school round if you've had a problem, I've done it BSJA let alone at local shows. Perhaps the Fredericksburg were the only people who thought to ask if they could?!


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## LEC (1 September 2012)

Clayton does not have a son but he does have a daughter.

I have just watched it and he does look at the horse - he also looks pretty wobbly on his feet and a bit winded. It looks like his air jacket did not go off either.

Pro horses are not used to things going wrong hence they look a bit confused and can often whinny. He is a fairly inexperienced horse for the level and he looked like he was getting tired. Clayton did the right thing in asking for more engine but the horse just did not get high enough. 

I have no issue with what happened and how it was all dealt with. Each fence has staff for rider and horse and however much you might not like it the rider will always have priority to check they are ok.


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## Marydoll (1 September 2012)

Its very easy to label and downcry people, but since it wasnt us who hit the deck at speed  a couple of times fairly recently and not knowing if he was winded and shocked, ill refrain from slagging him off as uncaring and and thoughtless rider


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## Rowreach (1 September 2012)

No time for Team Fredericks myself.  I hope the horse is okay, not a nice fall at all.


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## Mongoose11 (1 September 2012)

No SC, I guess I have no idea if anyone else asked and I know my whine is fairly unreasonable but they just seemed a very gobby/hoity toity bunch all in all. I certainly wasn't out to dislike them, I was quite star struck at first but I left thinking that the kids needed to wind their necks in and the parents were bloomin' miserable.


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## Mongoose11 (1 September 2012)

LEC, I presumed it was his son as he sat on his knee. Nephew perhaps - my mistake.


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## SpottedCat (1 September 2012)

Love how the iPad thinks the Fredericks should be Fredericksburg!

I'm pretty sure they don't have a son so perhaps they didn't feel they could discipline someone else's child?


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## NativePonyLover (1 September 2012)

I hope all the horses/riders that fell are ok.

 I saw Sam's fall and was SO impressed at how concerned she was with how her horse was.

Not seen Clayton's fall, I'm not sure I want to from the replies so far but will try to catch up later online. I sincerly hope he was just winded/shocked and not indifferent.


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## Buds_mum (1 September 2012)

Anywhere to watch the clips??


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## tallyho! (1 September 2012)

www.burghley.tv


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## Carefreegirl (1 September 2012)

No opinion either good or bad as my only 'dealings' with him has been competeing against him in a ODE at Aston-le-walls and we had a little chat as you do with fellow competitors.
In his defence I would say he was shocked and also looked like he had a bloody nose (could be wrong though) He did pat the horse as they walked away, ok he didn't fling his arms round it and snog it's face off but having had a crashing fall at that speed and that height I should imagine he was probably thinking what the hell happened there whilst trying to get his breath / barings back !

I must admit I did watch it first as small screen and sound off but then full screen with sound on - beware it's not nice viewing.


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## Buds_mum (1 September 2012)

Thank you!!


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## MrsMozart (1 September 2012)

I've come off and had a bleed on the brain, and next time a broken back, each time I was looking and asking after my horse as soon as I could focus/speak.


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## Buds_mum (1 September 2012)

Omg  sam penn's fall brought tears to my eyes.

Clayton. You can see that fleeting moment of absolute terror. He does care, he looks sick to his stomach and goes imeadiatley to look over. Afterwards, with the horse putting weight on all four legs he more looks relieved. 

 I just couldnt put my horse to a fence like that, even if he had the ability. Its awful, any of those falls could of been broken legs, horrendous. I don't really see the need for it


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## Kiribati_uk (1 September 2012)

OMG how judgemental are most of you, NOBODY knows what clayton was thinking......he had a horrid fall and no one can blame him for not running after his horse, the horse was attended by fence steward asap. My old boss lost horse at major 3de and horse was killed outright he walked off didnt want to see horse......does that mean he didnt love that horse?? No he was in complete shock. 
it;s the most awful feeling knowing that you put a horse on the floor, so PLEASE before you spout off, put brain into gear it's easy to say I would never do that but until you have been in that stituation with people watching etc don't judge!!!!!


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## Double_choc_lab (1 September 2012)

To me I thought Clayton was winded by the way he moved.  On the clip I saw I couldn't see Sam Penn get to her horse - I saw the steward catch it and lead it up out of the ditch with Sam no where near it.  I personally thought she should have pulled up earlier.  Her horse is 19 and didn't like the brushes in the water and i think should have been pulled up then (yes I know hindsight is a wonderful thing but i thought she was a car crash about to happen).  He's hardly going to learn new things at this age and looking at his record he hasn't done 4* before.


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## tallyho! (1 September 2012)

Both very lucky. In my eyes anyway.


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## Paint Me Proud (1 September 2012)

where are you all watching this?

EDIT - sorry just read page 5!


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## Countrychic (1 September 2012)

I've had some bad falls eventing and showjumping and without fail my first reaction is to check on the horse. Everyone I know is the same


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## BBP (1 September 2012)

Thanks Kiribati, that's just what I wanted to say. I was with the horse that died today, is rather not hear people fighting over whether riders care or not, they just show it differently.


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## Luci07 (1 September 2012)

He looks shocked. He was nearly home, well up with the leaders and then his horse had a crashing fall. As others have said he has had 2 really bad falls and a very nasty near miss this year. His horse had been going through the hedges and looked like it tried to do the same with that hedge. It become freakishly warm as well today and wonder if that caught any of the  horses out. The fredericks horses normally get home full of running.


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## tallyho! (1 September 2012)

KatPT said:



			Thanks Kiribati, that's just what I wanted to say. I was with the horse that died today, is rather not hear people fighting over whether riders care or not, they just show it differently.
		
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Sorry, which horse died today?


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## Mongoose11 (1 September 2012)

Point is..... We are allowed to have an opinion on what we see. To me the Fredericks seemed hoity toity irl. To others Clayton seemed to dismiss his horse after it's fall. I think those of you who are OMG'ing are being rather dramatic. Yes, we weren't there and no, we don't know what went through his mind but does that mean we can't make a judgement about what we felt we saw? No.


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## Freddie19 (1 September 2012)

KatPT said:



			Thanks Kiribati, that's just what I wanted to say. I was with the horse that died today, is rather not hear people fighting over whether riders care or not, they just show it differently.
		
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Sorry KatPT, are you saying a horse died today, or am I just reading your post wrongly.  I have been watching the burghleytv live off and on, but nowhere have I seen that a horse died.  I did feel that quite a few of the horses looked tired early on the course, but as I am not there, I A: do not know what the ground is like and B: do not know what the weather is like.


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## Sarah Sum1 (1 September 2012)

I think it was Paul Harts horse, heartbreak hill who was PTS due to a broke leg.


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## BBP (1 September 2012)

Sorry, Heartbreak hill broke his pastern on the flat galloping up to cottesmore leap. Pure freak accident. Rider was heartbroken and it isn't something I will forget soon. Of course people are allowed an opinion, just be open minded that what you see isn't the whole story.


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## Luci07 (1 September 2012)

We can have our opinions, but stating these as facts are not fair and neither is making insinuations against someone who can't reply. Or being suggestive when it could impact other innocent parties.

So I am going back to watch some of the truly brilliant riding that is on show  and wish again I had been there...!


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## Dragon22 (1 September 2012)

For a start the Fredericks only have one child - a daughter.

Secondly I have looked at the footage and whilst Clayton did not immediately go to the horse,  he had obviously taken a pretty nasty fall himself, looks like he landed on his head and then did a somersault and could easily be injured, concussed, shaken, shocked...

I would find it very hard to comment on a situation that I personally have never experienced. How many people who have commented on this thread have ridden a 4* level? And who have potentially taken a pretty nasty fall like that? 

I know I certainly haven't seen anything in the short video clip that would in anyway suggest that he did not show concern for the horse. Just because he doesn't go and kiss the horse on the nose does not mean that he is not concerned about his welfare. He is aware that in a top class competition like this there will be a competent team who are more than capable of looking after his horse and assessing the situation. He does look down at the horse but is, from the clip I have seen,  approached by the fence judges/ steward and halted himself - obviously they had significant concerns about Clayton's welfare. He does approach the horse and pat him once he is out of the ditch, I know this may have taken 10 minutes, may have taken 30 seconds but how do we know how long between the fall and the pat? Trust me I work in video production and things can easily be made (accidentally or purposefully) to look different to what they actually are!


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## Mongoose11 (1 September 2012)

Dragon22 you missed the bit where I was informed thay only had one child. I assumed that the child was Clayton's as it was sitting on his knee - easy mistake to make!


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## Kiribati_uk (1 September 2012)

Billie1007 said:



			Dragon22 you missed the bit where I was informed thay only had one child. I assumed that the child was Clayton's as it was sitting on his knee - easy mistake to make!
		
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Assumption the mother of all F.ups!! Or Never assume always check!!!! 
I have sat on many a mans knee......doesn't mean he's my daddy!!!


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## tallyho! (1 September 2012)

Luci07 said:



			We can have our opinions, but stating these as facts are not fair and neither is making insinuations against someone who can't reply. Or being suggestive when it could impact other innocent parties.

So I am going back to watch some of the truly brilliant riding that is on show  and wish again I had been there...!
		
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What did you expect? This is HHO!


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## HBM1 (1 September 2012)

I haven't watched Clayton's as I don't want to hear the horse whinny..wimp I know - but I have to say I watched Sam Penn's and loved her reaction, if ever I wanted an eventer I would want someone like her riding him.  I hope she was ok too as she seemed to vanish once she knew he was ok.  Thank god he was too that seems a horrible fence to take off on the rise like that to such an enormous fence...doesn't seem fair.


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## Mongoose11 (1 September 2012)

Touche Karibati  good idea to lighten the mood. I am particularly grumpy tonight (incase anyone hadn't picked up on it) x


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## SecretSquirrell379 (1 September 2012)

I have just watched Claytons, Sam's and Will's falls and I have to say that Will's made me cry. I do think that some of you are being hard on Clayton, jeez he hit that floor at great speed, in fact when he first sits up he wobbles, like he is going to pass out. He looked totally disorientated and as soon as he could see past the brush he did in my opinion check his horse, I don't think that he looks like he didn't care at all.


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## Jewkes (1 September 2012)

That jump looks TERRIFYING!


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## shortstuff99 (1 September 2012)

I have to say the Cottesmore leap has been in the course for many years and normally no-one has any problems at it! Strange to see so many problems at it today!


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## Dizzydancer (1 September 2012)

Well from what i saw was he got up looked round the jump and then pats him once on his feet- seemed to care but also looked winded.


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## Kiribati_uk (1 September 2012)

Billie1007 said:



			Touche Karibati  good idea to lighten the mood. I am particularly grumpy tonight (incase anyone hadn't picked up on it) x[/QUOTE

Thats how rumours start, if you don't know the facts don't say things!!
		
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## sonjafoers (1 September 2012)

Someone in CR has said they saw Clayton hacking back after his round & the horse looked fine. Surely he wouldn't hack back after falling like that would he?

Are there rules about getting back on even if it's not on course?


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## Mongoose11 (1 September 2012)

Karibati - now I'm grumpy again. Son or not if a child of that age who was in my company said something so rude so loudly I would have told them not to be unkind and not to be so loud. I thought it was a poor show from the adult who was supervising said child.


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## Toast (1 September 2012)

I cant seem to be able to play the video on the burghley website stream, has anyone else got another link to the clip?


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## DressageCob (1 September 2012)

I don't think you can really compare a standard fall to a fall like that. Even if you had a more serious injury, you can't compare a fall on a 2'3 sj course to a fall like that, where you're going great, nearing the finish and next thing you're sat at one side of the ditch and your horse is at the other. 

I'd like to think that I would immediately check on my horse. But part of me would be afraid of what I'd see.

That video of Sam made me blub a little!


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## alliersv1 (1 September 2012)

sonjafoers said:



			Someone in CR has said they saw Clayton hacking back after his round & the horse looked fine. Surely he wouldn't hack back after falling like that would he?

Are there rules about getting back on even if it's not on course?
		
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That was me. Definitely him. He was walking back with a steward alongside him between the arena and fence 32.


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## Kiribati_uk (1 September 2012)

Billie1007 said:



			Karibati - now I'm grumpy again. Son or not if a child of that age who was in my company said something so rude so loudly I would have told them not to be unkind and not to be so loud. I thought it was a poor show from the adult who was supervising said child.
		
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My point was you saying it was HIS SON and you didnt have the facts correct.......Oh yes you  made a mistake human error...it happens!!!!!


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## sonjafoers (1 September 2012)

Hi alliersv1 I took hacking to mean that he was on board or was he walking back on foot?

So glad the horse was ok, it looked an awful fall.


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## Elf On A Shelf (1 September 2012)

I've hit the ground at high speed from a great height and I can safely say that I couldn't tell you who I was, where I was, what I was doing on the floor and why I was wearing such ridiculous garb for a good 5-10mins after hitting the deck. 

He is human, he can break too you know.


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## Tiffany (1 September 2012)

The sound when Clayton and Sam's horses crashed into that fence made me jump. I'm sure horses and riders would have been shocked and or winded with the impact. Clayton did pat his horse when steward brought him round from fence and Sam shouted for her boy as soon as she got up. 

Hopefully horses and riders not too sore tomorrow.


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## katie_southwest (1 September 2012)

I'm just wondering if they'll edit the "*******  sake" out after he fell!!! 
Pretty sure I'd be saying something similar! Hope everyone and horses are ok after all the falls , horrible to watch


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## alliersv1 (1 September 2012)

sonjafoers said:



			Hi alliersv1 I took hacking to mean that he was on board or was he walking back on foot?

So glad the horse was ok, it looked an awful fall.
		
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He was riding. I actually did a double take as was surprised to see him obviously retired. We'd been in the marquee next to the track as my mate was having a go on the xc simulator, so we didn't hear that he'd fallen. I just assumed he'd retired for some other reason.


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## sonjafoers (1 September 2012)

alliersv1 said:



			He was riding.
		
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Crikey


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## rhino (1 September 2012)

EKW said:



			I've hit the ground at high speed from a great height and I can safely say that I couldn't tell you who I was, where I was, what I was doing on the floor and why I was wearing such ridiculous garb for a good 5-10mins after hitting the deck. 

He is human, he can break too you know.
		
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Only 5-10 mins  I carried on a cross country ride for an hour and a half after falling (horse fall), have absolutely no recollection of it whatsoever and supposedly was jumping everything in sight. Spent the next week fairly poorly with concussion  and my hat had split nearly in two!

Have also been involved in an RTA in which a car was written off. Got horse back to yard and then have no memory of what happened after that for a wee while.

My horse means more to me than anything, but going by certain people on here I must be a heartless cow


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## sonjafoers (1 September 2012)

I am one who was upset by his reaction - or non reaction to the horse. We all have our own opinion and none of us really know the true situation, but he does swear and look annoyed & frustrated by the fall which I can totally understand. 

However would any of us get back on our horse after it had just suffered a fall like that? To me that smacks more than anything of not caring and whilst I understand these horses aren't their pets and they are tools of the trade I still stand by the fact that the whole episode hasn't put him in a good light.

If he was truly in shock would the stewards allow him to remount??


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## JustKickOn (1 September 2012)

I was there and saw what happened. The fall in itself isn't dissimilar to what happened with Sam Penn at the same fence.
To me he looked very much in shock, Clayton hit the ground hard and with what has happened recently with his falls, and taking into consideration the fence and the added depth of the ditch, I think he was a little dubious to look to see what had happened to his horse. Think both horse and rider were very winded and shocked. The horse did look tired though on the approach to the fence and the one before.


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## kerilli (1 September 2012)

I was standing there too, about 20' from the fence. Could see the problem coming a mile off, since the horse dropped right behind his leg, and Clayton did all he could to galvanise the horse into making the requisite effort. I think he was very shocked and, possibly, winded, and his airjacket didn't go off (people around me noticed and commented on it, I hadn't noticed. In fact a few people said it was clipped to itself, not the saddle, I didn't see though). 
It looked to me as if he really didn't dare look at first, there was a fearsome crack when the horse's neck hit the front of the fence, I think that wooden rail cracked. 
The horse was swiftly attended to by the stewards. I'm slightly surprised that he rode the horse back BUT we don't know how bad he was feeling, a few miles to walk may have felt like a very long way. Let's not forget he fractured his liver in his fall earlier in the year, a v nasty injury. Maybe they should have insisted he went back by vehicle?
I bet that horse has a hell of a haematoma tonight, really hope they are both okay. Ditto Sam Penn's horse. I've gone right off that fence, always been utterly terrified of it, but usually riders and horses get away with things there (i've seen some missers that still resulted in jumping it fine, somehow!) not this year for some reason.


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## Queenbee (1 September 2012)

Oberon said:



			Was he is shock?

That could explain his behaviour.....
		
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mahonenx said:



			I wondered if he was worried about what he might see. You can hear how hard he hit the fence.
But, the concern should have taken priority and he certainly didn't give anyone a good impression of himself today.
		
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MrsMozart said:



			I've come off and had a bleed on the brain, and next time a broken back, each time I was looking and asking after my horse as soon as I could focus/speak.
		
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rhino said:



			Only 5-10 mins  I carried on a cross country ride for an hour and a half after falling (horse fall), have absolutely no recollection of it whatsoever and supposedly was jumping everything in sight. Spent the next week fairly poorly with concussion  and my hat had split nearly in two!

Have also been involved in an RTA in which a car was written off. Got horse back to yard and then have no memory of what happened after that for a wee while.

My horse means more to me than anything, but going by certain people on here I must be a heartless cow 

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To be honest, Ive had a number of pretty bad falls, nowhere near as bad as Mrs M, or Rhino, but I have to say, I know what its like to be in shock post fall, and yes, we can all react differently, but thankfully every single time I have had a bad knock, I am up as soon as is possible and chasing after my horse, the only time that I haven't is when I badly winded myself and thought Id broken my back... took me a few minutes to work out I could wiggle my toes and I was indeed... fine, plus I bailed out of the saddle on this occasion and ebony always used to stop next to me (well trained she was) Other than that, I have always been up and fretting over my horse.  I think though, it is pretty hard to speculate that, because that is how I behave when Im in shock, it should be how another person behaves... in a perfect world yes, well no actually in a perfect world... accidents wouldn't happen.

Rhino, that explains a lot, can clearly see why you are so bonkers now m'dear


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## rhino (1 September 2012)

Queenbee said:



			Rhino, that explains a lot, can clearly see why you are so bonkers now m'dear

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Kerrilli - do you think it's only a matter of time before all horses who fall have to be transported off course in an ambulance? I've seen it happen a few times this season with horses that weren't seriously injured at all.


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## Laafet (1 September 2012)

kerilli said:



			I was standing there too, about 20' from the fence. Could see the problem coming a mile off, since the horse dropped right behind his leg, and Clayton did all he could to galvanise the horse into making the requisite effort. I think he was very shocked and, possibly, winded, and his airjacket didn't go off (people around me noticed and commented on it, I hadn't noticed. In fact a few people said it was clipped to itself, not the saddle, I didn't see though). 
It looked to me as if he really didn't dare look at first, there was a fearsome crack when the horse's neck hit the front of the fence, I think that wooden rail cracked. 
The horse was swiftly attended to by the stewards. I'm slightly surprised that he rode the horse back BUT we don't know how bad he was feeling, a few miles to walk may have felt like a very long way. Let's not forget he fractured his liver in his fall earlier in the year, a v nasty injury. Maybe they should have insisted he went back by vehicle?
I bet that horse has a hell of a haematoma tonight, really hope they are both okay. Ditto Sam Penn's horse. I've gone right off that fence, always been utterly terrified of it, but usually riders and horses get away with things there (i've seen some missers that still resulted in jumping it fine, somehow!) not this year for some reason.   

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I was standing on the landing side of this fence, and felt sick when I heard that crack of the fence. People around me were welling up with tears imagining the worst. I couldn't see what was going on prior to take off but have watched the video since. I don't think he was that badly behaved in the aftermath. 
I thought they weren't allowed to get back on either, but since we saw Will Faudree's horse fall when it was clearly very tired at the steps before the Cottesmore Leap, it was examined by the vet then he got back on and rode home. Which is pretty awful IMO.


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## AdorableAlice (1 September 2012)

Regardless of the level of compassion shown or not shown, can someone please explain to me why a world class rider is seen to be pressing a clearly exhausted horse into one of the biggest fences on the course ?

I know little about horses but to my uneducated eye, the Fredericks horse and the horse that took a terrible fall at the steps were both very near the end of the petrol tank when they fell.

Surely to compete at this level the rider should have the ability to know when to stop the horse.  Horseware Bushman's round was not pleasant to watch either.


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## R.A.H (1 September 2012)

Just watched the footage, what a terrible fall. the horse looked really wobbly. I think Clayton was perphaps in abit of shock and he did have a look at his horse, maybe he was expecting the worst. 

Respect to Sam Penn


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## Dizzydancer (1 September 2012)

Kerilli- you do know its not possible to fracture a liver- Im presuming you mean lacerated? 
How long ago was that as if very serious cut to it then he would have 8 weeks off no matter what to prevent further injury.
Im shocked he rode back- shouldn't have been allowed. He was clearly scared to look after the fall and must have feared the worst, but to then get on after the accident it just plain stupid shock or not no one should have let it happen.


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## Seahorse (1 September 2012)

Poor Sam Penn, that was a horrific fall. Her first Burghley too. She said on facebook earlier that the horse is fine. 

Just watched Clayton's fall and I can't understand why anyone is criticising him, he walked round and looked at the horse from the top, then the steward said they had him. Then as he was walking off he patted the horse on the bum.

To me he looked winded and shocked, not sure anyone would be able to jump up after a fall like that!


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## kerilli (1 September 2012)

dizzydancer said:



			Kerilli- you do know its not possible to fracture a liver- Im presuming you mean lacerated? 
How long ago was that as if very serious cut to it then he would have 8 weeks off no matter what to prevent further injury.
Im shocked he rode back- shouldn't have been allowed. He was clearly scared to look after the fall and must have feared the worst, but to then get on after the accident it just plain stupid shock or not no one should have let it happen.
		
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No, it is actually possible to fracture a liver. I queried it when I read the reports at the time, in fact. It's a medical term, for specific damage to or partial separation of the lobes of the liver I think, something like that.  
It happened at Fontainebleu iirc, so a few months before the Olympics. The horse either trod or knelt on his chest while he was on the floor. He spent a week in hospital I believe.

I do slightly question the stewards' wisdom in letting him ride back today tbh, but there we go.

As for horses being taken back in horse ambulance no matter what - no, I hope not. Precautionary if they might have, say, a leg injury, but otherwise far better for them to walk back and get their breath back, surely.


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## HBM1 (1 September 2012)

just summoned up the nerve to watch Clayton's round...he actually looks to me as if when he gets up, which is pretty quickly, he looks at his horse expecting the absolute worst and then turns in huge relief (and surprise) that he is ok - as he looks at him he lets out a sigh too....I dont think he should have ridden him back though, horses get ruddy sore too after falls and the horse's was far worse than his.  He deserved to have his tack off and be led...but hopefully he is being well looked after tonight.


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## Dab (2 September 2012)

AdorableAlice said:



			Surely to compete at this level the rider should have the ability to know when to stop the horse.  Horseware Bushman's round was not pleasant to watch either.
		
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But even when they don't seem to have the ability to know when to pull up, isnt there supposed to be stewards on course who can red (?) flag and retire riders....but how many times at top level is it used? Sounds as though it could have been used today?


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## Rowreach (2 September 2012)

AdorableAlice said:



			Regardless of the level of compassion shown or not shown, can someone please explain to me why a world class rider is seen to be pressing a clearly exhausted horse into one of the biggest fences on the course ?

I know little about horses but to my uneducated eye, the Fredericks horse and the horse that took a terrible fall at the steps were both very near the end of the petrol tank when they fell.

Surely to compete at this level the rider should have the ability to know when to stop the horse.  Horseware Bushman's round was not pleasant to watch either.
		
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Totally agree.  I have far greater issues with the way he was riding and the state of the horse (tapping almost every fence) BEFORE the fall, when presumably he wasn't suffering from shock/concussion, and the way he approached the Leap (as Kerilli says it was obviously not going to go well), than I do with the aftermath of the fall.

And to ride that poor horse back afterwards, well I seriously doubt I'd have been able to contain myself if I'd been there


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## merlinsquest (2 September 2012)

I have just watched it from the link on here, I think that he was winded & quite honestly too scared to look.  The horse did look tired & was a bit tappy all the way round, he gave him a reminder & the horse just didn't respond.  Having never competed at that level I don't feel qualified to answer on whether he should have continued, but as a pro it is his job to get the horse round, he isn't out for a jolly so he made his decision & had to go with it, the end result was clearly not good, but I can remember Mark Todd with a tired horse, he gave him a reminder, galvanised the horse into action & finished up well.


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## EmmasMummy (2 September 2012)

Watching it, and hearing the horse actually clip numerous fences before it got to that one, you can see why he hit it.  The horse was just not up to it.  He was tired or something, but there was no oomph or even keenness in his going. 

I dont think CF was cruel not checking him, you can clearly hear the steward shout "ive got him" .  He was most likely winded and realised that all rushing to the horse as well wouldn't be wise as what if it tried to jump out of the ditch?


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## Dottie (2 September 2012)

Maybe it's because he is a bloke? They don't generally seem to panic and flap as much as us ladies. 
Don't get me wrong, it would have been nice to see him run up to Walterstown Don and give him a big hug and a pat, (i know i would have!) but he could see that he was up on all four pins (Thank goodness) and i imagine he had had one hell of a shock and needed to get his bearings back.


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## Flibble (2 September 2012)

I just watched video to see what had happened.
I have had some bad falls obviously not at this level I am a wimp. I know what shock feels like I have fallen and then crawled back to my horse. I have fallen and not known it was my horse. I have fallen and lain on the ground and shouted ignore me catch my horse and I have fallen and been so confused that I just passed my reins to a friend and walked away confused. Gosh thats a lot but I am nearly 100.

I would say CF was slightly stunned and in shock wasnt sure that the horse was or could be in one piece as was the horse shocked too hence the whinny.


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## starryeyed (2 September 2012)

Some horrible falls, I've always thought that fence was completely terrifying. From the video footage you can see that although he doesn't rush over to see how it is, he does look over 2-3 times and seems to breathe a sigh of relief - I think he was probably very hurt himself and in shock from what just happened. The whinney from the horse is heartbreaking though, it did seem tired.
Sam Penn's reaction was incredible, did she even touch the ground before she ran to see how her horse was?! The panic in her voice did make my blood run cold. Hope all the fallers recover ok and aren't too battered.


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## jendie (2 September 2012)

Poor horse....but don't forget the rider!! He must have been in shock and may even have been concussed. May not have known where he was, let alone that he'd even been riding a horse!!


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## monkeybum13 (2 September 2012)

Where is everyone watching Sam Penn running to check her horse.

On burghley.tv from what I can see she shouted 'where is he' but a steward caught the horse and lead it around just like they did for Clayton


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## gemin1eye (2 September 2012)

it is his job to get his horse round but not at the expense of the horse! other riders retired their horses because they werent going properly or wouldnt be fair to the horses....i know who id want on.my very expensive eventer


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## katherinef (2 September 2012)

It looks like CF  got up half looked back then turned away my impression was he thought his horse was badly hurt especially when the horse whinnied. It was a reactive thing. Plus he had a hefty fall - he must have known he was in trouble approaching that fence.  Will give him the benefit of the doubt on this occasion.


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## monkeybum13 (2 September 2012)

gemin1eye said:



			it is his job to get his horse round but not at the expense of the horse! other riders retired their horses because they werent going properly or wouldnt be fair to the horses....i know who id want on.my very expensive eventer
		
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This is where I get confused, everyone is slating CF but to me SP's horse looked a lot more uneasy going round imo.


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## dafthoss (2 September 2012)

monkeybum13 said:



			Where is everyone watching Sam Penn running to check her horse.

On burghley.tv from what I can see she shouted 'where is he' but a steward caught the horse and lead it around just like they did for Clayton 

Click to expand...

On burghley.tv at 4.20 on her video she is up as soon as she can and asking after him before being told to sit down by a steward as he is caught and led out from the ditch and they bring him round so she can see him. 

I felt really bad for her, it must be a horrible fence to have your horse fall at and he seemed to be loving it up to then apart from the first water. 

As for clayton I think he looks scared to look and in shock but relieved when the steward brings his horse out using all 4 legs.


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## ribbons (2 September 2012)

I do have to smile at all the 4* event riders giving their expert opinion ( from the sofa of course ) on how a rider needs to run and 
kiss and hug their horse after  being flung over the fence, regardless of whether they are winded concussed or injured, despite stewards on hand attending the horse. 
Strangely some of the 'experts' dishing out the strongest criticism seem to often be on HHO with riding and care problems of a 
very basic nature. But I guess it's the kissing and cuddling that makes a real horseman.
Get real people.....it's a hard and dangerous sport for horse and rider, but no one is indifferent when an accident happens. A few seconds of tv coverage of an incident and people seem to know the man personally and have full knowledge of his character and attitude to his horses. 
Quite literally unbelievable. 
Now I'll b****er off before I'm slated for slating the slaters. It's like being in a playground.


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## meandmyself (2 September 2012)

CF's fall was really awful. I didn't see the others. The Burghley TV site won't load the video. 

Hope everyone is okay.


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## trick123 (2 September 2012)

ribbons said:



			I do have to smile at all the 4* event riders giving their expert opinion ( from the sofa of course ) on how a rider needs to run and 
kiss and hug their horse after  being flung over the fence, regardless of whether they are winded concussed or injured, despite stewards on hand attending the horse. 
Strangely some of the 'experts' dishing out the strongest criticism seem to often be on HHO with riding and care problems of a 
very basic nature. But I guess it's the kissing and cuddling that makes a real horseman.
Get real people.....it's a hard and dangerous sport for horse and rider, but no one is indifferent when an accident happens. A few seconds of tv coverage of an incident and people seem to know the man personally and have full knowledge of his character and attitude to his horses. 
Quite literally unbelievable. 
Now I'll b****er off before I'm slated for slating the slaters. It's like being in a playground.
		
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agree with you, we had a horse there, and the ground was very holding


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## HBM1 (2 September 2012)

has anyone heard how the horses who fell are today?


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## siennamum (2 September 2012)

ribbons said:



			I do have to smile at all the 4* event riders giving their expert opinion ( from the sofa of course ) on how a rider needs to run and 
kiss and hug their horse after  being flung over the fence, regardless of whether they are winded concussed or injured, despite stewards on hand attending the horse. 
Strangely some of the 'experts' dishing out the strongest criticism seem to often be on HHO with riding and care problems of a 
very basic nature. But I guess it's the kissing and cuddling that makes a real horseman.
Get real people.....it's a hard and dangerous sport for horse and rider, but no one is indifferent when an accident happens. A few seconds of tv coverage of an incident and people seem to know the man personally and have full knowledge of his character and attitude to his horses. 
Quite literally unbelievable. 
Now I'll b****er off before I'm slated for slating the slaters. It's like being in a playground.
		
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I quite agree.


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## Sarah Sum1 (2 September 2012)

ribbons said:



			It's like being in a playground.
		
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BUNDLE!


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## gemin1eye (2 September 2012)

Its not that they need to run and kiss their horse don't be so stupid -  its that they need the common sense to pull a tired horse up before a fall like that happens! Mary King clearly felt Kings Temptress wasn't having a good day, so she pulled her up - ditto WFP on Seacookie. The horse should always be the riders top priority, certainly over winning or finishing the event. I don't think its particuarly bunny huggerish to say that?


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## Mongoose11 (2 September 2012)

ribbons said:



			I do have to smile at all the 4* event riders giving their expert opinion ( from the sofa of course ) on how a rider needs to run and 
kiss and hug their horse after  being flung over the fence, regardless of whether they are winded concussed or injured, despite stewards on hand attending the horse. 
Strangely some of the 'experts' dishing out the strongest criticism seem to often be on HHO with riding and care problems of a 
very basic nature. But I guess it's the kissing and cuddling that makes a real horseman.
Get real people.....it's a hard and dangerous sport for horse and rider, but no one is indifferent when an accident happens. A few seconds of tv coverage of an incident and people seem to know the man personally and have full knowledge of his character and attitude to his horses. 
Quite literally unbelievable. 
Now I'll b****er off before I'm slated for slating the slaters. It's like being in a playground.
		
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This is hilarious. Where did you hear anyone claiming they were an expert? When did anyone say the fact that he didnt run over and kiss and hug his horse means that he isn't an amazing rider? 

When were people suddenly not allowed to say what their opinion was of a moment in time? Most people have said 'it seemed heartless that he didn't attempt to see to the animal' or something to that effect. That is their opinion. In their opinion they would have liked him to show more care for the animal. LOTS of people have then come on to say - he was shocked, injured, concerned for his own health; I completely agree - he was probably all of those. That doesnt change the fact that lots of people would have liked him to have paid more attention to the horse. 

The other stuff about 'A few seconds of tv coverage of an incident and people seem to know the man personally and have full knowledge of his character and attitude' is just silly. Nobody commenting on the fall has really commented on anything other than his seemingly cool attitude after the fall. I commented on how I found him to be when I was around him at an event one day. People can have their opinions.

I don't think it is fair that you have criticised people here for having an opinion and therefore claiming they are 'experts' from the 'sofa'. So we're not all 4* event riders. I've never claimed to be one but should I feel like I can't have an opinion on something I saw because I'm not a pro rider or anywhere near? Opinions only reserved for the very experienced?


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## HBM1 (2 September 2012)

or owners for that matter...my first homebred is coming up to an age to be backed and later competed by a professional rider.  I will be entrusting his care to that rider and would want to see care and compassion for them from that rider....after all, the riders rarely own the horses they compete.  Just because someone may not be a 4* rider, does not mean they cannot have an opinion.  I did not see anything he did that would make me not want him to ride my horses, I definitely saw something from Sam Penn that would make me look her way perhaps....I currently have my eye on a young professional showjumper (in a non-stalkerish way), and like what I see of how she is with horses so far - equally, I have seen a rider I wouldn't let clean my horse's stable, let alone ride him.  Opinions are just that, opinions.


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## oldvic (2 September 2012)

merlinsquest said:



			I have just watched it from the link on here, I think that he was winded & quite honestly too scared to look.  The horse did look tired & was a bit tappy all the way round, he gave him a reminder & the horse just didn't respond.  Having never competed at that level I don't feel qualified to answer on whether he should have continued, but as a pro it is his job to get the horse round, he isn't out for a jolly so he made his decision & had to go with it, the end result was clearly not good, but I can remember Mark Todd with a tired horse, he gave him a reminder, galvanised the horse into action & finished up well.
		
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The difference between mark's horse and Clayton's is that Mark had about 1 minute to go with 3 relatively straightforward fences that weren't huge. Clayton had about 5 mins with some big, wide fences to jump. 



Dab said:



			But even when they don't seem to have the ability to know when to pull up, isnt there supposed to be stewards on course who can red (?) flag and retire riders....but how many times at top level is it used? Sounds as though it could have been used today?
		
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There were spotters around the course but they have to report back to the ground jury who stop the horse if they deem it necessary. From the time that Clayton sharpened the horse and he got no response to the time he fell, there was only 1 person who would have time to react and that was Clayton. The only other one that I saw that I thought should have pulled up or been stopped was Horseware Bushman after he refused.



kerilli said:



			No, it is actually possible to fracture a liver. I queried it when I read the reports at the time, in fact. It's a medical term, for specific damage to or partial separation of the lobes of the liver I think, something like that.  
It happened at Fontainebleu iirc, so a few months before the Olympics. The horse either trod or knelt on his chest while he was on the floor. He spent a week in hospital I believe.

I do slightly question the stewards' wisdom in letting him ride back today tbh, but there we go.

As for horses being taken back in horse ambulance no matter what - no, I hope not. Precautionary if they might have, say, a leg injury, but otherwise far better for them to walk back and get their breath back, surely.
		
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It was at Saumur when Be My Guest trod on him. I agree about the decision to ride him back. Who knows if there could have been any internal damage and he was very tired anyway and Clayton is not a light weight! It was probably safer for him to walk than overheat in a trailer but he should have been led.


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## englund (2 September 2012)

Absolutely in shock, he is a very caring rider.  Anyone would be in shock after that. Im sure the horse got the best after care.


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## ribbons (2 September 2012)

Ooops, stupid and silly. Thanks for letting me know.


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## kerilli (2 September 2012)

oldvic said:



			There were spotters around the course but they have to report back to the ground jury who stop the horse if they deem it necessary. From the time that Clayton sharpened the horse and he got no response to the time he fell, there was only 1 person who would have time to react and that was Clayton.
		
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Yes, precisely. It's NOT easy to have a horse stopped... it takes a couple of people to decide that they must be stopped (XC Controller and a Ground Jury member maybe, I can't remember exactly), then they have to radio far enough ahead of where the horse is galloping for a Fence Judge to react fast enough to stop that combination. 
Also, sometimes a horse can look a bit cooked and then have a bit of a breather or a sharp reminder and perk right up. That horse of Clayton's could easily have sharpened up immediately... unfortunately he didn't. And the decision to pull out of a fence because something doesn't feel quite right, a few strides away, when clear to that moment... not at all easy to make. (Yes, I've done it btw, but only at an OI! BUT I was riding my own horse and had nobody else to try to explain my actions to!)

I think it's probably a good idea for B.E. to introduce a rule that ANY horse that has fallen MUST be led back to the stables/horsebox, if not ambulanced back...  but then, some horses get daft and possibly dangerous being led through crowds, and the crowds yesterday were heaving... I saw someone else hacking back right through everyone.


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## Kiribati_uk (2 September 2012)

Billie1007 said:



			This is hilarious. Where did you hear anyone claiming they were an expert? When did anyone say the fact that he didnt run over and kiss and hug his horse means that he isn't an amazing rider? 

When were people suddenly not allowed to say what their opinion was of a moment in time? Most people have said 'it seemed heartless that he didn't attempt to see to the animal' or something to that effect. That is their opinion. In their opinion they would have liked him to show more care for the animal. LOTS of people have then come on to say - he was shocked, injured, concerned for his own health; I completely agree - he was probably all of those. That doesnt change the fact that lots of people would have liked him to have paid more attention to the horse. 

The other stuff about 'A few seconds of tv coverage of an incident and people seem to know the man personally and have full knowledge of his character and attitude' is just silly. Nobody commenting on the fall has really commented on anything other than his seemingly cool attitude after the fall. I commented on how I found him to be when I was around him at an event one day. People can have their opinions.

I don't think it is fair that you have criticised people here for having an opinion and therefore claiming they are 'experts' from the 'sofa'. So we're not all 4* event riders. I've never claimed to be one but should I feel like I can't have an opinion on something I saw because I'm not a pro rider or anywhere near? Opinions only reserved for the very experienced?
		
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No you just stated he had a rude SON, which he most defo doesn't!!!


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## meandmyself (2 September 2012)

Honestly, I've just watched both clips and I don't know what people are bitching about. CF had a very heavy fall, was back on his feet and looking for his horse very quickly. What more do you want him to do?


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## Mongoose11 (2 September 2012)

Kiribati_uk said:



			No you just stated he had a rude SON, which he most defo doesn't!!!
		
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Jeez - I am pretty sure I apologised for getting it wrong. Incase you missed the two posts where I apologised and corrected myself...

I apologise - Clayton does not have a rude son. He did have a small, seemingly rude boy with him.

Not sure my mistake negates my post in response to Ribbons though 

Kiribati - couldn't you come up with a valid argument in response?


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## Kellys Heroes (2 September 2012)

Horrendous falls  I hope all that were involved are okay, not too sore and RIP Heartbreak Hill, must be devastating.

Shock does very odd things to people. Twice I've experienced intense shock - once when I had a fall - my horse spooked, reared up and got caught in barbed wire and I was knocked out momentarily - when I came round, I managed to get up and run after her, someone on the yard caught her and I managed to clean her up and finish off the jobs. I drove myself home somehow, calmly rang my mum and said I think I need to go to hospital, then when she came home I couldn't tell her what had happened for the life of me.
The second time was after a friend managed to put his car in a ditch with me in the back - after what I assume was about 30 mins and myself calling a friend and someone with a LandRover to come and tow the car out, we got back and my legs just buckled and I couldn't speak. 

It's not for us to assume whether or not the riders care for their horses - its just how shock and falls affect riders and how hurt they are.
K x


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## Marydoll (2 September 2012)

meandmyself said:



			Honestly, I've just watched both clips and I don't know what people are bitching about. CF had a very heavy fall, was back on his feet and looking for his horse very quickly. What more do you want him to do?
		
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Agreed


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## rhino (2 September 2012)

KellysHeroes said:



			It's not for us to assume whether or not the riders care for their horses - its just how shock and falls affect riders and how hurt they are.
K x
		
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No, it's not fair, but sadly some people seem to confuse their right to have an opinion with the need to tell it to all and sundry.

I was judging at a low key competition today, if I started a thread slating and naming one or more of the riders, stating that they couldn't care less about their horse's welfare, were only in it for the money etc., etc. I would be strongly (and rightly) criticised and the thread would most likely be pulled.

Why it's somehow acceptable to have a go at someone, just because they are a 'name' (and have become a name by being bloody good at the sport they do) I just don't understand. There is a vast difference between discussing things with friends, and publishing it on a public forum.

I think Ribbons' post is interesting, and it is increasingly noticeable that all the incredibly, personally critical threads are always in NL. Not many of the CR'ers compete at 4* or anything near, yet they seem to have more understanding and are far less prone to 'knee jerk' emotional threads like this. Interesting.


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## kerilli (2 September 2012)

meandmyself said:



			Honestly, I've just watched both clips and I don't know what people are bitching about. CF had a very heavy fall, was back on his feet and looking for his horse very quickly. What more do you want him to do?
		
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Run over to the horse (if he can after such a heavy fall), possibly putting himself in danger (but never mind about that), shove the Steward (who is already doing a good job) out of the way (but apologise of course) and then cry a lot to prove he cares (but not enough to upset the horse, of course), and snog it (but not to death).
Obviously.


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## Marydoll (2 September 2012)

kerilli said:



			Run over to the horse (if he can after such a heavy fall), possibly putting himself in danger (but never mind about that), shove the Steward (who is already doing a good job) out of the way (but apologise of course) and then cry a lot to prove he cares (but not enough to upset the horse, of course), and snog it (but not to death).
Obviously. 
  

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Pmsl


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## meandmyself (2 September 2012)

kerilli said:



			Run over to the horse (if he can after such a heavy fall), possibly putting himself in danger (but never mind about that), shove the Steward (who is already doing a good job) out of the way (but apologise of course) and then cry a lot to prove he cares (but not enough to upset the horse, of course), and snog it (but not to death).
Obviously. 
  

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LOL!!!


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## tallyho! (2 September 2012)

Is snogging horses de rigeur nowadays? 

I am still on peck on the cheek... Don't want to look outta place when I next fall off now...


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## meandmyself (2 September 2012)

tallyho! said:



			Is snogging horses de rigeur nowadays? 

I am still on peck on the cheek... Don't want to look outta place when I next fall off now...
		
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Never on a first ride...


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## dafthoss (2 September 2012)

kerilli said:



			Run over to the horse (if he can after such a heavy fall), possibly putting himself in danger (but never mind about that), shove the Steward (who is already doing a good job) out of the way (but apologise of course) and then cry a lot to prove he cares (but not enough to upset the horse, of course), and snog it (but not to death).
Obviously. 
  

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Your obviously well practiced in how to keep the NL crew happy  I think you need to market your skills to these 4* riders who obviously know nothing and all need your help .


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## Shantara (3 September 2012)

I'm more concerned about Sydney Dufresnes horse :O I've not seen a horse canter on 3 legs like that before! Was it ok?


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## honour123 (3 September 2012)

The BBC showed a clip of a horse falling and smashing into the steps. That, too, whinnied in distress.  Does anyone know who it was as the beeb didn't say?  I hope that the horse was ok.


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## rhino (3 September 2012)

honour123 said:



			The BBC showed a clip of a horse falling and smashing into the steps. That, too, whinnied in distress.  Does anyone know who it was as the beeb didn't say?  I hope that the horse was ok.
		
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Will Faudree. Horse and rider both supposed to be ok.


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## honour123 (3 September 2012)

Thanks.  That's good to hear


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## rhino (3 September 2012)

The video is here
http://www.burghley.tv/vod/portal/?sid=7vbbglte7lqvcbk0rj9h1g6r22

You can see both horse and rider walk away. Bet they'll both be a bit sore.


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## mahonenx (3 September 2012)

Will Faudree can be seen on Buryghley.tv walking over and giving his horse a kiss.

Nice, small public showing of appreciation that his horse is ok.


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## LaurenBay (3 September 2012)

I don't understand why everyone is jumping on Clayton.

He took a bad fall and when he was up he looked over the jump to see the Horse standing up, he looked very relieved. He was also seen patting is Horse! what would you have liked him to do? Dive headfirst over the jump to see the Horse?!


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## Amymay (3 September 2012)

LaurenBay said:



			I don't understand why everyone is jumping on Clayton.

He took a bad fall and when he was up he looked over the jump to see the Horse standing up, he looked very relieved. He was also seen patting is Horse! what would you have liked him to do? Dive headfirst over the jump to see the Horse?!
		
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I agree - it really is quite ridiculous.


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## Sarah1 (3 September 2012)

LaurenBay said:



			what would you have liked him to do? Dive headfirst over the jump to see the Horse?!
		
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That really tickled me!  It conjured up a very funny image 

I agree BTW!


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## MagicMelon (3 September 2012)

LaurenBay said:



			I don't understand why everyone is jumping on Clayton.

He took a bad fall and when he was up he looked over the jump to see the Horse standing up, he looked very relieved. He was also seen patting is Horse! what would you have liked him to do? Dive headfirst over the jump to see the Horse?!
		
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Hate to say, I agree with this. Ive seen a lot worse reactions. Yes, ok I probably would have reacted like the girl and been desperate to check my horse was ok - but everyones different, he did look to check the horse was up. He didnt look too concerned ok, but then again he's probably had an awful lot of falls in his time - probably get quite immune to it after a while. It was lovely to see the French guy kiss his horse after falling up the steps though, that was really sweet.


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## Sarah1 (3 September 2012)

kerilli said:



			Run over to the horse (if he can after such a heavy fall), possibly putting himself in danger (but never mind about that), shove the Steward (who is already doing a good job) out of the way (but apologise of course) and then cry a lot to prove he cares (but not enough to upset the horse, of course), and snog it (but not to death).
Obviously. 
  

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That actually made me snort! Funny


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## Shantara (3 September 2012)

I must say I'm on Claytons side. Had the horse broken it's neck, he would have been in the way, had he rushed to see the horse. Anyway, since the horse was ok, a trained steward is better than a winded rider to lead the horse away and give it fuss.


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## kerilli (3 September 2012)

Nah said:



			I must say I'm on Claytons side. Had the horse broken it's neck, he would have been in the way, had he rushed to see the horse. Anyway, since the horse was ok, a trained steward is better than a winded rider to lead the horse away and give it fuss.
		
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Yes... also, a trained, CALM steward, coping admirably. Let's not forget that riders have a lot of emotions and a lot of adrenalin going on (and adrenalin does very strange things to the body and mind), and a rider who has just experienced an exhilarating ride of about 8 mins followed by a few secs of total incredulity, then a second of panic, then a huge horrible crunch and a winding fall... I think he did absolutely the RIGHT thing to just look at the horse, see it was up on its feet and apparently fine, and stay where he was, out of the way. 
If anyone is wondering what I mean about the effects of adrenalin, it covers up pain (I broke my arm many years ago, I am an utter wimp, but it did not hurt AT ALL for about 20 minutes, I was oblivious... then it hurt like the blazes and would not stop hurting!) and it makes the brain think that time is doing v weird things... it speeds things up, then it slows them down enormously, very very odd. So, shock + adrenalin = not reacting normally...


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## ClassicG&T (3 September 2012)

You could hear Sam (i think thats who it was) shout "Where is he?!" straight after she leaped to her feet. Very caring and how the rider should be.

Clayton on the other hand didn't look bothered. Poor horse.


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## YasandCrystal (3 September 2012)

LaurenBay said:



			I don't understand why everyone is jumping on Clayton.

He took a bad fall and when he was up he looked over the jump to see the Horse standing up, he looked very relieved. He was also seen patting is Horse! what would you have liked him to do? Dive headfirst over the jump to see the Horse?!
		
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^^ Absolutely!


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## Wishful (3 September 2012)

With Clayton's you can hear the steward saying "I've got him" pretty well instantly - i.e. "Where is he" is pre-empted by the official.


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## *Spider* (3 September 2012)

This has actually sickened me. My horse is my world. Obviously just a tool to him.


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## LittleLex (3 September 2012)

Give the guy a break. After rewatching the footage on burghley tv I have to say his reaction was nothing of concern! He looks over, sees the horse is standing and gives it a pat as its lead away by the steward.


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## Amymay (3 September 2012)

*Spider* said:



			This has actually sickened me. My horse is my world. Obviously just a tool to him.
		
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Really?????

I take it you don't support any type of equine sport then?

And what do you consider the role of the Stewards at events to be?


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## Wizzkid (3 September 2012)

It was fine not sure what ppl are on about his horse was on its feet and being led over to him...


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## YasandCrystal (3 September 2012)

I find it unbelievable that folk are so darned judgemental. Crikey Clayton problably bloomin well hurt himself you know and it's not the done thing for a bloke to break down in pain. He clearly cared for his horse; he patted it as it went past - they were both in a great deal of shock I imagine.
These competition horses are impeccably looked after - they are shod regularly, wormed regularly. They have their teeth and backs checked and often have physio and body work etc.There have been threads on here asking people how often they worm shoe etc and there are I know many who delay calling the vet or booking  the dentist and getting feet seen to - all far greater sins in my mind to show caring than Clayton at Burghley.  How anyone can say that a rider doesn't care about their horse when they don't perhaps run to it after a winding fall on both parts is beyond me


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## Sophstar (3 September 2012)

LaurenBay said:



			I don't understand why everyone is jumping on Clayton.

He took a bad fall and when he was up he looked over the jump to see the Horse standing up, he looked very relieved. He was also seen patting is Horse! what would you have liked him to do? Dive headfirst over the jump to see the Horse?!
		
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^This^ If the horse hadn't stood up or wasn't standing on all 4 legs then if he gave this reaction, then yes it would be disgusting. 

On another point, the horse should have been retired earlier in the course. You can see he is visibly tired from the beginning but especially after the brush jumps in the water, you can hear him clip nearly every jump. There wasn't a hope in hell he was going to get over that huge jump cleanly!


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## paddy (3 September 2012)

Looked to me that he looked over the fence to check his horse was up and was then a) winded and b) walking round to get to the bottom of the fence, when he was (properly) accosted by a steward.  Clayton did hack back, at a walk.  The horse looked fine as it came past us, at the end of the course.  

The judge/ steward briefing for Burghley is a whole day, with presentations from vets, doctors, etc.  Many have been fence judging/ stewarding there for donkeys' years.  In general terms, if there's a fall, someone will go for the horse, another for the rider.  If there is any doubt as to whether horse/ rider is fit to leave the course, a vet or doctor is called for on the radio.  First aiders are everyewhere you look.  It's a very well oiled operation.  

If a fence judge thinks a horse looks tired, (s)he will radio in and someone in control will look at it.  I don't want to generalise but the fence judges I've spoken to are experienced horse people.  Each fence judge has a red flag and will very quickly step in to pull someone up if that is radio'd through by control.

Of the horses that reached us, only a couple looked tired.  I'd commented at quite how much a lot of them seemed to have in the tank - you don't always see quite so many riders hauling and throwing out 'whoas' coming into the last couple of fences!  Of course, it was rather a quiet day, peppered by the odd horse, at the end of the course!


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## AdorableAlice (3 September 2012)

Sophstar said:



			^
On another point, the horse should have been retired earlier in the course. You can see he is visibly tired from the beginning but especially after the brush jumps in the water, you can hear him clip nearly every jump. There wasn't a hope in hell he was going to get over that huge jump cleanly!
		
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Exactly the point I raised pages ago.  The world was watching one of the top events in the horseworld.  Some of the best in the world riders and horses showcasing horse sport. Many have commented on the difficult season event riders have had with lost starts and problems in fittening horses, citing these reasons for the sights we all witnessed of exhausted horses at Burghley.

In my rather simple mind, if the horse is not fit enough for the ask - don't ask.  The racing world would not send a top class horse to a major meeting under cooked and then make excuses for an unsavoury sight.

I doesn't bother me if a horse is cussed or kissed, I do both on a daily basis with my rabble.  What does bother me is the sight of respected, experienced riders pushing tired horses, the vast majority of them would only achieve a completed status rather than top 20 anyway.  Then again, I suppose it is a business for many and horses that have completed are worth far more than those with a pulled up in their records.

Aside from the fallers, the sight of tired but still trying horses hauling themselves over the fences, landing in a heap and then being rewarded with a good few 'sharpeners' a few strides after the fence just makes me wince.

However, what do I know, never evented in my life, but when the hunter is ploughing a furrow with his nose and the reins are like two house bricks, I look for my box not for the next fence.


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## kerilli (3 September 2012)

Sophstar said:



			^This^ If the horse hadn't stood up or wasn't standing on all 4 legs then if he gave this reaction, then yes it would be disgusting. 

On another point, the horse should have been retired earlier in the course. You can see he is visibly tired from the beginning but especially after the brush jumps in the water, you can hear him clip nearly every jump. There wasn't a hope in hell he was going to get over that huge jump cleanly!
		
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and


AdorableAlice said:



			In my rather simple mind, if the horse is not fit enough for the ask - don't ask.  The racing world would not send a top class horse to a major meeting under cooked and then make excuses for an unsavoury sight.

I doesn't bother me if a horse is cussed or kissed, I do both on a daily basis with my rabble.  What does bother me is the sight of respected, experienced riders pushing tired horses, the vast majority of them would only achieve a completed status rather than top 20 anyway.  Then again, I suppose it is a business for many and horses that have completed are worth far more than those with a pulled up in their records.

Aside from the fallers, the sight of tired but still trying horses hauling themselves over the fences, landing in a heap and then being rewarded with a good few 'sharpeners' a few strides after the fence just makes me wince.

However, what do I know, never evented in my life, but when the hunter is ploughing a furrow with his nose and the reins are like two house bricks, I look for my box not for the next fence.
		
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Seriously, wtf were/are you watching? Clayton was clear to this point. He jumped the Trout Hatchery as well as anyone all day - made the distance easily (LOTS didn't) and jumped out super-clean. He jumps the huge log spread (which is truly enormous) beautifully with ears pricked. He rubs the Pagoda (many did) but doesn't touch either part of the white rails with drop or the corner. Yes, he knocks the white parallel - again, many did! He doesn't touch the corner at the Rolex combo, although he brushes through the brush tops (many did, I think this saps energy, the drag of the brush, fwiw). He skips up the Dairy Farm steps as well as any did, makes the distance easily (again, some didn't).
The one before the Leap he jumps well, just rubs it a little, no big deal. These horses are used to rubbing xc fences here and there, they often do, it doesn't mean they are exhausted!
NO horse was galloping with its head on the floor. And this horse looked (and I bet felt) FINE until suddenly he didn't respond for some reason. 

Watch Willa Newton's round. She's already had a silly run-out, and gone a couple of long routes. The little fence before the Leap, her horse chips 1 in and jumps it badly (far worse than Clayton's did!), she gives him a reminder, he sharpens up, and she gets a really good jump over the far larger Leap. That's what usually happens when you give a horse a reminder. 

As for the fitness thing... tish tosh (that's the polite version.) Yes, lots of cancellations this year, but I'd lay my life that all the horses that got to Burghley would have had all the fitness work they needed. That's what their riders do fgs, they bet their lives on their horses being fit and ready for it.
The going was weird, sticky and dead, a bit holding. Horrible. It looked as if it would be great but the amount of rain we had on Wed, Thurs and Fri did not help at all.  
But these horses were NOT exhausted and I bet Clayton's felt as fine as it looked, until suddenly it didn't respond as he needed.


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## Marydoll (3 September 2012)

kerilli said:



			and


Seriously, wtf were/are you watching? Clayton was clear to this point. He jumped the Trout Hatchery as well as anyone all day - made the distance easily (LOTS didn't) and jumped out super-clean. He jumps the huge log spread (which is truly enormous) beautifully with ears pricked. He rubs the Pagoda (many did) but doesn't touch either part of the white rails with drop or the corner. Yes, he knocks the white parallel - again, many did! He doesn't touch the corner at the Rolex combo, although he brushes through the brush tops (many did, I think this saps energy, the drag of the brush, fwiw). He skips up the Dairy Farm steps as well as any did, makes the distance easily (again, some didn't).
The one before the Leap he jumps well, just rubs it a little, no big deal. These horses are used to rubbing xc fences here and there, they often do, it doesn't mean they are exhausted!
NO horse was galloping with its head on the floor. And this horse looked (and I bet felt) FINE until suddenly he didn't respond for some reason. 

Watch Willa Newton's round. She's already had a silly run-out, and gone a couple of long routes. The little fence before the Leap, her horse chips 1 in and jumps it badly (far worse than Clayton's did!), she gives him a reminder, he sharpens up, and she gets a really good jump over the far larger Leap. That's what usually happens when you give a horse a reminder. 

As for the fitness thing... tish tosh (that's the polite version.) Yes, lots of cancellations this year, but I'd lay my life that all the horses that got to Burghley would have had all the fitness work they needed. That's what their riders do fgs, they bet their lives on their horses being fit and ready for it.
The going was weird, sticky and dead, a bit holding. Horrible. It looked as if it would be great but the amount of rain we had on Wed, Thurs and Fri did not help at all.  
But these horses were NOT exhausted and I bet Clayton's felt as fine as it looked, until suddenly it didn't respond as he needed.
		
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Like button pushed


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## MrsJ (3 September 2012)

Having not managed to watch any of the coverage and having met Clayton and Lucinda on a visit to their yard I just had to go and watch the clip to see what you were all referring to and to be honest I don't know what you are all going on about.

He falls...a nasty fall for rider and horse, gets up glances over at his horse, who is STANDING in the ditch then lets the stewards do their jobs!!

The guy has just had a massive off, it doesn't look like his air jacket deployed....maybe you should cut him some slack. 

And as far as the horse whinying goes... sounded more like a 'oh s**t" wuffle than an in pain whiny!!!

I'm glad they are both well and ok.


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## Nicnac (3 September 2012)

Thank goodness for Kerilli!  'Nuff said.


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## welsh_horses (3 September 2012)

I watched it on the tv and just thought it looked like a unfortunate nasty fall. Then today I spoke to a friend who was stood at the fence at the time and said that the horse looked very tired coming into the fence ( I did say that the horses did not look to be overly tired on the tv coverage) and didnt jump the fence before it very well either and his riding was one of the worst displays of horsemanship she had seen. Not good.  Hope the horse is not too sore after it.


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## meandmyself (3 September 2012)

So if CF had started screaming for his horse the second he hit the deck, you'd all be okay with how he reacted?

To be honest, I think his reaction was the better one- the last thing a horse who has just had a crashing fall needs is his hysterical rider riling him up even more.


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## Mongoose11 (3 September 2012)

meandmyself said:



			So if CF had started screaming for his horse the second he hit the deck, you'd all be okay with how he reacted?

To be honest, I think his reaction was the better one- the last thing a horse who has just had a crashing fall needs is his hysterical rider riling him up even more.
		
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Again - a bit silly. Not sure anyone has suggested that he should have been 'screaming' for his horse 'hysterically' and so 'riling the horse up'. Have you got a point without exaggeration?


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## kerilli (3 September 2012)

welsh_horses said:



			I watched it on the tv and just thought it looked like a unfortunate nasty fall. Then today I spoke to a friend who was stood at the fence at the time and said that the horse looked very tired coming into the fence ( I did say that the horses did not look to be overly tired on the tv coverage) and didnt jump the fence before it very well either and his riding was one of the worst displays of horsemanship she had seen. Not good.  Hope the horse is not too sore after it.
		
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I was standing at the fence too, I was about 20' from it, on the side near Winner's Avenue, right against the ropes. I had a totally clear view of what happened and I'm pretty experienced and pretty vociferous about bad riding. I've watched the vid again and it is exactly as I remembered. He did all he could, he did NOT ride the fence badly, the horse just suddenly dried up on him, did not respond as it should have, as they usually do to a quick wake-up (watch the vid of Willa Newton over those 2 fences for a comparison). I feel really sorry for him for having had such a totally **** year, and all this horrible and imho totally undeserved criticism is not nice at all. "worst displays of horsemanship?" Give me a ****ing break. 
I hope he doesn't see this thread.


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## meandmyself (3 September 2012)

Billie1007 said:



			Again - a bit silly. Not sure anyone has suggested that he should have been 'screaming' for his horse 'hysterically' and so 'riling the horse up'. Have you got a point without exaggeration?
		
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Well, everyone on the other side of this argument is exaggerating- I figured it was my turn to have a go. 

Seriously though- what more do you expect of him? What didn't he do that you all wanted him to do?


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## Marydoll (3 September 2012)

kerilli said:



			I was standing at the fence too, I was about 20' from it, on the side near Winner's Avenue, right against the ropes. I had a totally clear view of what happened and I'm pretty experienced and pretty vociferous about bad riding. I've watched the vid again and it is exactly as I remembered. He did all he could, he did NOT ride the fence badly, the horse just suddenly dried up on him, did not respond as it should have, as they usually do to a quick wake-up (watch the vid of Willa Newton over those 2 fences for a comparison). I feel really sorry for him for having had such a totally **** year, and all this horrible and imho totally undeserved criticism is not nice at all. "worst displays of horsemanship?" Give me a ****ing break. 
I hope he doesn't see this thread.
		
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Agree again, Clayton may not be everyones cup of tea but he is a very experienced rider, and tbh the best person to judge if the horse is able to go on, is the person in the plate imo. These riders risk theirs as well as the horses lives taking on these courses, and im pretty sure theyre not going to continue to do that thinking ...... This horse cant make it, and neither would the ground jury


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## Mildred (4 September 2012)

Interesting reading! Cut the poor bloke some slack - how can a split-second reaction following a really heavy, nasty fall escalate into an epic 18 page dissection of someone's private life, including how his family is perceived publicly and how he trains his horses?

For what it's worth, I know the owners of one of the Fredericks' horses and have met Team F lots of times whilst out supporting my friends horse at various events. They are always pleasant, friendly and the horses are meticulously cared for and at peak fitness - I don't think you could find fitter horses.  I'm really surprised by the attitude of some people on here.


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## minnierosie (4 September 2012)

I wish some people cared more about their horse because some people just let their horse get on with it and walk away so that some other nice person has to go and get his horse for him. I know that as soon as I fall off I get up and go and see whether my pony is alright and give her a kiss and a hug. So I am very upset that that man didn't go and see whether his pony was alright. I am very mad indeed so if you were wandering what kind of face I am pulling it is a mad face as in mad cross mad.


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## Amymay (4 September 2012)

minnierosie said:



			I wish some people cared more about their horse because some people just let their horse get on with it and walk away so that some other nice person has to go and get his horse for him. I know that as soon as I fall off I get up and go and see whether my pony is alright and give her a kiss and a hug. So I am very upset that that man didn't go and see whether his pony was alright. I am very mad indeed so if you were wandering what kind of face I am pulling it is a mad face as in mad cross mad.
		
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Oh dear..................


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## kerilli (4 September 2012)

Minnierosie, either you're a troll or you're about 12, I can't tell.   
The rider had just had a VERY heavy fall. He was possibly winded, maybe in pain, and had a lot of adrenalin running through him as well as a lot of emotions.
"Some other nice person" is actually a TRAINED STEWARD who is there at the fence ready to do just what they did. Better to have the horse tended by a calm, trained person than a possibly injured rider. The horse does not care who loosens his girth, and doesn't need kissing and hugging at that stage. 
To have a possibly injured, possibly faint rider rushing in to try to help the horse would really not be a good idea.


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## Mildred (4 September 2012)

There's a subtle difference between falling off Pedro the shetland who's tripped over a daisy at a walk and taking a crashing fall over an enormous 4* fence.


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## Amymay (4 September 2012)

Mildred said:



			There's a subtle difference between falling off Pedro the shetland who's tripped over a daisy at a walk and taking a crashing fall over an enormous 4* fence.
		
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No, Midred - No.  There simply isn't!!!!!


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## *hic* (4 September 2012)

amymay said:



			No, Midred - No.  There simply isn't!!!!!

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Amymay - could you please clarify what sort of face you are pulling? Is it just mad, or mad cross mad?


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## merlinsquest (4 September 2012)

Mildred said:



			There's a subtle difference between falling off Pedro the shetland who's tripped over a daisy at a walk and taking a crashing fall over an enormous 4* fence.
		
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Excellent!  FWIW I had a bad fall showjumping, tangled up in all the poles & very winded & trainer thought I had a broken pelvis, I was confused & shocked & for a few moments  I couldn't even think about where my lovely mare was, I had no idea if she had fallen too, but I was winded & in a lot of pain, as I began to recover a bit, then I looked round for her & she was fine having been caught by a vet on a visit to the yard, trainer was attending to me, quite rightly.  My fall was nowhere near on the scale of Clayton's, so if I was in pain & in shock & unable to focus on what was going on, then certainly so was he!


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## kerilli (4 September 2012)

Mildred said:



			There's a subtle difference between falling off Pedro the shetland who's tripped over a daisy at a walk and taking a crashing fall over an enormous 4* fence.
		
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Mildred, now I have a happy smiling laughing face. Thank you.


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## Amymay (4 September 2012)

Dee O'Dorant said:



			Amymay - could you please clarify what sort of face you are pulling? Is it just mad, or mad cross mad?
		
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Just to clarify it's cross mad cross!


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## LaurenBay (4 September 2012)

Dee O'Dorant said:



			Amymay - could you please clarify what sort of face you are pulling? Is it just mad, or mad cross mad?
		
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Haha! just burst out laughing at work, now everyone is looking at me!


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## monkeybum13 (4 September 2012)

Mildred said:



			There's a subtle difference between falling off Pedro the shetland who's tripped over a daisy at a walk and taking a crashing fall over an enormous 4* fence.
		
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## Hedwards (4 September 2012)

I dont really have anything particularly interesting to add to this thread that hasnt already been said by Kerilli et al (well said i must add!), but the 'pedro tripping over a daisy in walk' by Mildred comment actually made me choke on my cup of tea and end up spitting rather a lot of it over my laptop, and i have a horrible feeling some may have landed on my boss (not that he's noticed... yet...) so thank you for that, the highlight of my day so far!

I know when I have fallen off i have gone straight to my horse, however, I cannot compare any fall i've ever had with a fall over the Cottesmore leap, I walked the course with Sam Griffiths on Friday, and stood in the ditch and walked all around the jump... just approaching it would give most riders a heart attack - flying over the fence head first without your horse and landing the way Clayton did would definitely leave me a useless mess on the ground. I'm quite positive Clayton looked to see the horse was standing and then in likelyhood was told by the stewards to go with them! I'm saying all this and if i'm honest, I have never ever warmed to the Fredericks at all, however I can appreciate he is a professional and knows what he's doing!


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## Amymay (4 September 2012)

I know when I have fallen off i have gone straight to my horse, however, I cannot compare any fall i've ever had with a fall over the Cottesmore leap
		
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And that is it in a nutshell.

I've been lucky in that I've only ever had one seriously bad fall, whilst out hunting.  Concussed, with a broken nose and seriously shaken I had to leave others to deal with my horse - who at the time was stuck on a fence, with no guarantee that she would be removed from it alive.

Thankfully she was fine, and the huntsman was not needed.

But others were in a far better position to deal with her than I at that time, and I was eternally grateful to them for their help, expertise and professionalism.


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## PrillyD (4 September 2012)

I only got round to watching it today and he did look to see where the horse was and he did pat it when the steward brought it over. He had just fallen off over a beyond huge jump and he hadnt attached air jacket to saddle so must of been in lots of pain!? :s


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## Marydoll (4 September 2012)

Mildred said:



			There's a subtle difference between falling off Pedro the shetland who's tripped over a daisy at a walk and taking a crashing fall over an enormous 4* fence.
		
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QUOTE=amymay;11041460]No, Midred - No.  There simply isn't!!!!![/QUOTE]

*snorts*
Cheers guys, just spluttered coffee all over the ipad


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## mahonenx (4 September 2012)

He can't have been in that much pain as he managed to ride the poor horse back!


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## LaurenBay (4 September 2012)

mahonenx said:



			He can't have been in that much pain as he managed to ride the poor horse back!
		
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I think it was more shock to be honest.


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## Amymay (4 September 2012)

mahonenx said:



			He can't have been in that much pain as he managed to ride the poor horse back!
		
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  Ooooo he really is an uncaring barstool then!


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## rhino (4 September 2012)

mahonenx said:



			He can't have been in that much pain as he managed to ride the poor horse back!
		
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Oh yes of course, because nobody has _ever_ managed to get on a horse and _walk_ it home when they've been injured or in pain 

Oh dear, we really do seem to be scraping the bottom of the barrel here in an attempt to 'prove' that someone doesn't care about their horse.


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## nikCscott (4 September 2012)

There was another fall at that fence exactly the same and the lady rider jumped up and was shouting "where is he?" The distress in her voice where so was obviously so worried for him brought me to tears


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## rhino (4 September 2012)

nikCscott said:



			There was another fall at that fence exactly the same and the lady rider jumped up and was shouting "where is he?" The distress in her voice where so was obviously so worried for him brought me to tears
		
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Sam Penn. I quite agree, was very touching


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## Amymay (4 September 2012)

nikCscott said:



			There was another fall at that fence exactly the same and the lady rider jumped up and was shouting "where is he?" The distress in her voice where so was obviously so worried for him brought me to tears
		
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Yes, it was rather lovely, I agree.


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## Emmacharlton (4 September 2012)

Walterstown Don unhurt after Burghley fall
Published September 4, 2012 by Team Fredericks
http://www.teamfredericks.com/walterstown-don-unhurt-after-burghley-fall/


Walterstown Don (Walter) has suffered no injuries despite a horrific fall on the Burghley cross-country course.

The accident, which shocked many viewers on the Burghley TV website, happened at the Cottesmore Leap fence and left Clayton visibly winded and in pain. Walter was thoroughly checked by vets and despite the severity of the fall has experienced no serious ill-effects.

Some viewers have criticised Claytons reaction to the fall, suggesting he should have checked to make sure Walter was OK.  He told us:

I was disappointed by some of the criticisms, particularly from those who may have seen some of the incident on YouTube. The TV coverage did not tell the whole story. I was in considerable shock and pain, all the more so because of the previous fall I had this season, although I was able to walk afterwards.

The welfare of my horses is always my major concern and I care greatly for them, as anyone who knows Team Fredericks will confirm".

I would like to reassure everybody that Walter is absolutely fine, was immediately checked by vets and is now in perfect form. Thank you all for your concern Clayton added.


Emma Charlton
Team Fredericks


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## Puppy (4 September 2012)

ETS - Cross posted.


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## rhino (4 September 2012)

Thank you Emma, and a timely reminder of how far reaching forums like this are, and the impact that comments (even completely misjudged ones) can make...

Glad to hear they are both well, and hope to see them out and about competing again soon x


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## kerilli (4 September 2012)

Thanks EmmaCharlton, that's really good to hear.


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## Marydoll (4 September 2012)

Thanks for the update Emma, im glad both are okay


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## PrillyD (4 September 2012)

But even Sam Penn (that falk still makes me cry when she calls "where is he?") says on her fb that she never reads forums like this because people react without knowing the whole story...
We all react differently in different situations- none of us know how clayton was feeling. Ok, i wouldn't of ridden the horse back but thats his call. I'm just relieved the pony is ok


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## hairycob (4 September 2012)

Speaking with my steward hat on, if someone has had a bad fall - even at a much lower height - I would rather they stayed sat down & let somebody else catch the horse. Leaping up to snog the horse could make a spinal injury/internal bleeding much worse & I doubt very much that the horse would be at all grateful.


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## mahonenx (4 September 2012)

Thanks Emma.
Glad to hear that Walter is fine.


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## nikCscott (4 September 2012)

hairycob said:



			Speaking with my steward hat on, if someone has had a bad fall - even at a much lower height - I would rather they stayed sat down & let somebody else catch the horse. Leaping up to snog the horse could make a spinal injury/internal bleeding much worse & I doubt very much that the horse would be at all grateful.
		
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Thats very easy to say but in practice your first thought after such a fall is naturally to check the horse. Same as if i was hit by a car my first thought would be are my kids ok. You tend to just react in these situations...


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## hairycob (5 September 2012)

I understand that - but this thread is about slating a professional for acting in a sensible manner.


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## Blugal (6 September 2012)

nikCscott said:



			Thats very easy to say but in practice your first thought after such a fall is naturally to check the horse. Same as if i was hit by a car my first thought would be are my kids ok. You tend to just react in these situations...
		
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Late to this thread, but with reference to the above, it is not true at all. I recently fell with my horse (we slipped on the flat). To by-standers it was not a serious or heavy fall.  However, my reaction was very strange.  I sat up, took off my gloves, unzipped my vest, and said, "I had the weirdest dream that I fell off my horse."  Apparently I was unconcerned about the horse, and totally unaware I had just fallen. 

Someone caught my horse and walked us back to the barn.  I was severely concussed and spent the night in the hospital. Of course I have no recollection of any of it, or in fact about 12 hours from that day.


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## georgiegirl (6 September 2012)

Its worth remembering folks that the reactions we can have when falling can be very varied and hence our actions afterwards can sometimes be strange!

I remember donkeys years ago now getting decked in the warm up of a sj comp by a very young (and bucky!) george. I did as I normally do and got straight back on, carried on with what I was doing and went into the ring.....halfway round the course I pulled up. I was confused and did not know what the hell I was doing sat on a horse let alone that I was in a sj comp and where the next fence was. I was promptly made to get off and taken to hospital where I was told I had a severe concussion. I just remember being really pee'd off that I wanted to sleep and no one would let me!

FWIW I dont think anyone can comment on Claytons reaction or so called non reaction. It was a horrific fall and he will have been incredibly shocked by it and I dont understand how anyone can say these top riders dont give a stuff about their horses?!?!

Im sad that the fredricks have more than likely read this thread given their recent press release about the incident. 

Lets face it. NONE of us are perfect and split second decisions can be the difference between win or lose (or a clear or fall!). Who the hell is ANYONE to judge his decisions that day? we are ALL only human after all!


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## MrPotts (21 February 2013)

Sam Penn even shouted, she was so concerned for her horse.

Have to admit to being a little disappointed by his reaction.


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## Marydoll (21 February 2013)

Cant believe this has been resurected


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