# Probably a really stupid auestion but.....................



## matthew (14 September 2006)

What does being blooded actually envolve-i think i have a pretty good idea but can someone fill me in!


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## avalcalab (14 September 2006)

When the hounds kill a fox the huntsman wipes the animal's blood across the cheeks* of first-time hunters, normally children.

* on their face!


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## matthew (14 September 2006)

Hmm yes as i thought- it a bit caveman isnt it?


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## flying_change (14 September 2006)

I've always thought so.

RS


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## avalcalab (14 September 2006)

I personally think it is, yes, but the fox is dead so I suppose hunters can do what they want with its body. Pros claim blooding is no longer practised but it is.

Which pros here were blooded?


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## Hercules (14 September 2006)

Me.


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## Ereiam_jh (14 September 2006)

I was bloodied on the rugby pitch with a face full of blood (and snot) from the smashed nose I had given to the opposing hooker.

Hope that helps.


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## k9h (14 September 2006)

I've never been blooded &amp; i am whipper-in for our local pack well not in the correct turn of blooded my horse caught me in the face on last legal day &amp; the resulty is below  
Our Huntsman has never been blooded either. Just depends if you were there when they were doing it or not &amp; down to your own preferance.


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## avalcalab (14 September 2006)

In the film Omen 3 the Devil goes foxhunting and at one stage turns the hounds on a "goody" who's following him. He then initiates a young foxhunter with the blood of the victim, thereby enlisting him as an evil disciple. It's a hilarious scene and shows how unbelievably silly the whole cult-like initiation ceremony of blooding is.


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## Ereiam_jh (14 September 2006)

It seems to me that blooding is completely irrelevant to the issue of fox hunting.

Isn't the argument about cruelty not silliness or otherwise.


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## avalcalab (14 September 2006)

It isn't COMPLETELY irrelevant. The practice of blooding - which still takes place - gives an insight into the sort of people who enjoy hunting animals with hounds.


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## Ereiam_jh (14 September 2006)

Sorry I don't get what your saying.  Are you saying that we should make something illegal because of the 'sort of people' that do it?

That doesn't make sense to me.  I thought it was meant to be about whether it is cruel or not, not what 'sort of people' do it.

It strikes me that if we made laws to stop people 'of a certain sort' from doing things then we're going down a very dodgy path.

Sorry I can't help it, woolly liberal that I am.

I enjoy hunting deer with my dogs, what 'sort of person' does that make me?


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## avalcalab (14 September 2006)

Who mentioned making blooding illegal? I certainly didn't. If Hercules gets a kick from having fox blood smeared over his boat - with the attendant risk of infection - I couldn't be less bothered. He, and indeed you, can go shove your heads in a vat of cow sh1t for all I care.


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## Ereiam_jh (14 September 2006)

Who did?  I don't know.  I certainly didn't.

Are you having problems understanding what I am saying?

What has the 'sort of people' who hunt got to do with the rights and wrongs of hunting?


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## Ereiam_jh (14 September 2006)

Has the 'sort of people' who play tiddly winks got anything to do with anything.  What if only fascist dictators played it, would that be grounds to ban it?


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## avalcalab (14 September 2006)

Go cover yourself with fox blood if you want. I don't care.


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## Ereiam_jh (14 September 2006)

I would never dream of doing any such thing.

Are you unable to respond to any of my questions.  Are they too difficult or challenging for you?  Would you like me to phrase them more simply?


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## avalcalab (14 September 2006)

You haven't understood. I dont want to ban blooding or tiddly winks. I think it's a strange thing to want to have fox blood daubed over your face, but if you want to do it - go ahead!


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## rosita (14 September 2006)

I have been around hunting since tiny, but was never blooded and have never witnessed it, although have been  there at the kill. Not something I would personally be interested in having done, you can not judge on a few preferences an entire way of life. Alot of people involved in hunting do not have the fluffy bunny veiw that dominates the of majority arguments against the practice of hunting with hounds.


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## Ereiam_jh (14 September 2006)

As you know avalcalab  I'm asking you what relevance it has what 'sort of person' hunts.  It's amazing how many points you are simply incapable of responding to in any meaningfull fashion.  Are you frightened of the argument?


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## Ereiam_jh (14 September 2006)

A lot of antis are obsessed with blooding.  To me the only important legal or ethical issue around hunting is cruelty.  All of the rest is irrelevant.  They bring it up for PR.


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## avalcalab (14 September 2006)

I think it's obviously relevant. If people perform weird secretive initiation ceremonies during fox hunts it makes me more likely to view the fox hunt as a whole with some suspicion.

On a wider level, I think the "sort of people" who hunt is even more important. I dislike terrierwork, for example, partly because most (thankfully not all) terriermen are such deeply unpleasant, yobbish, racist, sexist, homophpbic, thick gibbons who get a genuine quasi-sexual delight from abusing animals. Some of these characters bait badgers and organise dog fights. Oh yes, I think the "sort of people" who hunt can be very relevant.


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## Ereiam_jh (14 September 2006)

Relevant to what?

Whether it should be illegal or not?

Isn't what is relevant the question as to whether or not it is cruel?


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## Ereiam_jh (14 September 2006)

I'll tell you what I think.  I have a big problem with the 'sort of people' who want to ban activities on the basis of what they feel are the 'sort of people' that carry them out.  I think that these people are highly prejudiced and want to use the law for their own political ends.

I think that the law should target poeople's activities and not who the people are that carry them out.  I think that those activities should be judged on their effects beneficial or otherwise not on the basis of the 'sort of people' that carry them out.

Do you disagree, or don't you want to say?


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## Doreys_Mum (14 September 2006)

I'm sorry, but I disagree that blooding reveals the true face of hunting.

I don't mind blooding.  I like blooding in fact.  to me, blooding is more than just phsycial blood on body, blooding is saying that the body and therefore spirit of the fox are sacred, which is why there is ceremony about the matter.  

I would like to think that the cunning and wit of the fox has been passed onto many young hunters in this fashion, not too dis-similar to the native american practise of eating internet organs of buffalo raw so as to possese their strength.

And what of cultures who wear pelts or body parts to draw on the animals strength?

To me, blooding reveals the respect hunters have for the fox, that they would wish to take on his characteristics.

I'll agree it's a little 'caveman' though - but I'm pagan and have very 'caveman' views of the world.

I will always pay respects to any dead animal, I have buried every animal I have killed so far, and the one I didn't bury was eaten.

That, and being part of a rural family, I've never been screamish about blood.  Try playing with a roadkill deer heart and not get some on you.  Or try skinning a hare, gutting a pheasant.

Blood makes up the vast majority of our body, why's it suddenly so sickening on the outside?


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## Ereiam_jh (14 September 2006)

Very interesting.

Could the distate for 'weird secretive initiation ceremonies' really be an inability to accept people with different cultures?

I'm all for diversity and tolerance.

Good on you for your paganism.  No 'weird secretive initiation ceremonies'  though, you might arouse suspicion!


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## Doreys_Mum (14 September 2006)

tbh, I'm still a touch concerned about 'fitting in' and all... I don't want to follow a set path, the word of god so to speak, it's not me!

For a start, I swear I contravene 90% of the old testament!

No, I just want to believe what I believe about the world and it's ways, and I happen to believe in the celtic gods and the earth mother more than one christian god.

But I don't want to be seen to get it wrong along the lines...

reguardless, pagan is still the closest religeon to me... so it's the umbrella I'll use.

And yes, I agree about the cultures.  Funny how you'll see all sorts of people out hunting, and yet antis only see the one...

Fine, the white upper/middle classes aren't a different culture, but why can people not accept them?  Especially as there are FAR more than just the white upper/middle classes who hunt!!!

I don't care what antis say, when one of their favourite words to use to describe hunters is "toffs" - you don't need to listen to their arguments, they resent the fact that the white upper/middle classes have money, end of.

And so what if they do.  I'd rather spend my £15 on hunt subs than on a ticket to see a bunch of overpaid twats kick a ball around...


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## Ereiam_jh (14 September 2006)

A lot of the Anti propaganda just wants to pigeonhole people.

That's why whatshis/herface goes on about a certain 'sort of person'.

I wouldn't even class myself as a complete 'pro'.  I just hate their prejudice.  They pretend to be all about animal welfare but they aren't at all.


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## buckybee (15 September 2006)

avalcalab - everyone is entitled to there opinion and I can understand why some people don't agree with hunting.  However, it is extremely irritating when people talk complete b*****ks about things that are totally irrelevant!!  

Does it really matter if hunts do carry out blooding or not?? It's not really something I've thought about very much but you obviously find it far more fascinating! Will you please inform me, if i've been blooded, what "type of person" does that make me??  Just curious!


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## matthew (15 September 2006)

hmm.. i am not an anti but all the hunts i have seen i hate to say are all very very posh ( and i am middle class white myself) i can understand why that is off putting to somepeople!i personally i wouldnt really fancy having blood smeared across my face but each to their own! i am not sure i agree that the hunt think of the fox as sacred though! other religions who view an animal as sacred will not kill or eat it!


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## k9h (15 September 2006)

Well put Doreys-Mum. Couldn't of put it better myself. 
The thing is if before the ban all Pro hunters had put down Fox Hunting as a religion we could of saved it! All it takes is 10,000 people to list a certain religin for it to become recognised &amp; I'm sure there are more than 10,000 pro's (just look at the turn out on march's). 
Thats how Jedi Knight has become a religion!!!! So if pro hunters had put down Fox Hunting then maybe that would of been a loop hole to save the proper hunting just like Jews &amp; Koshas can kill there animals by sliting their throats with a very sharp blade without stunning them first as they think that interfiers with the spirit in some way.
Now theres an idea????


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## buckybee (15 September 2006)

Some people are posh who hunt (not me!!) but I don't understand why that makes a difference??  Some posh people event and play polo, shall we ban those too?


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## matthew (15 September 2006)

Not saying we should ban it because posh people hunt-i am not an anti! but i dont think (in my experience) that the hunt are very welcoming to people who are not the norm!
Yes people that play polo etc are posh but you need money to do that-anyone can go hunting!


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## k9h (15 September 2006)

Im not posh. Im a farmers daughter &amp; not a big farm. Just a hill farm with 500 sheep &amp; 30 beefers thats all we had. The majority of our hunt members a`re anything but posh too? OK the big well know packs will obviousley contain more wealthy people but just because they have money doesn't give them an attitude. I have found people less well off that have more standard &amp; rights issues &amp; alot less approacable.


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## buckybee (15 September 2006)

Totally agree with you!!  People automatically assume that if people have a posh accent then they will be snobs - but they're not!!

There are plenty of hunts around who are made up of normal people who work hard to keep there horses and go hunting.


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## Hercules (15 September 2006)

''If Hercules gets a kick from having fox blood smeared over his boat - with the attendant risk of infection - I couldn't be less bothered. He, and indeed you, can go shove your heads in a vat of cow sh1t for all I care.''

Never stated that I got a kick from being blooded, I was just answering your question.  Quite frankly, it was my choice and was certainly less painful, less humiliating and more hygienic than the initiation ceremony at my rugby club.

Even though you have never met me, do not know my background, skin colour or religion, I am clearly one of 'the sort of people' that you do not like.  I am glad about that because I do not tolerate bigots.


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## avalcalab (16 September 2006)

Everyone needs to calm down and get this in proportion. I don't "object" to blooding. I just think it's weird and done in a secretive way. If hunters are proud of being blooded why are they so wary of being photographed in this state?

As for my supposed dislike of hunters this is nonsense - except for most terriermen, who have to rebut the assumption that they're awful, violent, thick, animal-abusing thugs. I could't care less if someone is "posh". I'm more posh than the vast majority of hunters.


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## Ereiam_jh (16 September 2006)

I though blooding indicated a particular 'sort of person' and was in some way connected to terriermen.

Your argument seems to have fizzled out.

Have you any other points to make?


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## buckybee (16 September 2006)

"I'm more posh than the vast majority of hunters."

good for you deer!

Still don't really get why it is secretive??  Maybe it is, that why i haven't seen it happen in 16 seasons of hunting!  But maybe I'm lying because its against the "cult" rules to break the secret pact??  You tell me, you seem to know more about it.

I must admit some terrier men are nobs.


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## 4whitesocks (16 September 2006)

never been blooded.....have yet to make it out on a day where they actually caught a fox.....


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## rosita (16 September 2006)

Really object to the 'posh' attitude towards polo! Like any other horse sport it costs money but it depends how much according to the level you play at! At high, or even medium goal it can cost a fortune, but low goal is for every one, and if you're good enough you can make a living out of it. I play in the summer and hunt in the winter. I work bloody hard to be able to do this,ie, no holidays etc......it's a life style choice. It's my way of life. I object to being told by the government that it is socially unacceptable. Ignorance seems to rule.


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## Ereiam_jh (16 September 2006)

I know how you feel.  I've yet to catch a fox, even thogh I keep trying.


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## BroadfordQueen (17 September 2006)

i have been blooded. smells nasty


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## Doreys_Mum (17 September 2006)

hmm.. i am not an anti but all the hunts i have seen i hate to say are all very very posh ( and i am middle class white myself) i can understand why that is off putting to somepeople!i personally i wouldnt really fancy having blood smeared across my face but each to their own! i am not sure i agree that the hunt think of the fox as sacred though! other religions who view an animal as sacred will not kill or eat it!
		
Click to expand...

I believe all life is sacred, even the tiniest plant... and yet I have to take some to survive, I have to take some to help nature's way, I cannot avoid taking it, but I can have the greatest respect for what I take and not to take more than I need.


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