# had a massive complaint by the YM



## susi (27 October 2013)

hi

im relativley new to the forum but not horses. ive had my lot for nearly 19 years (1 horse the same, my gelding i got about 2 years ago as a rescue). 

ive always fed my lot (average about 15hh) a heaped barrow load of hay over night. that has to last from about 12 hours. they also have a horse ball with 1 level scoop of feed in it to knock about pluss are on straw so if they ever ran low on hay etc they have that to eat as a fall back.

i had a phone call from the YM to say my horses never have hay, they checked my stables 10 mins after i left and they had no hay or water. i give my horses http://www.diy.com/nav/garden/garde...se-Large-Flexi-Tubs-Red-9375445?skuId=9676150 bucket, they have that filled right to the top every night and morning. (they are in at the moment, waiting for the vet to give the OK to go out again)

right now im going to the stables 3 times a day and they are out of hay and water each time!! i upped the hay to 2 heaped barrow loads every time and they still have none when i go back again 

do you think anything is going on there as i dont think my horses have any health issues like that. they are in great shape.

i was stunned when i got a real telling off (havent been at the yard long) YM did everything but say i am neglecting my lot. i adore my horses would never ever do anything that wasnt right with them. you can imagine im mortified about it.

i spoke another livery and was told they have a huge turnover of liveries as they pick on liveries. 

do you think im not giving them enough hay and water? Im worried sick that ive done something wrong with them.

susi


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## Vodkagirly (27 October 2013)

how much were the eating before?
Sounds like there should be some hay left. Could someone be taking it out your stable?


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## susi (27 October 2013)

hi

before i moved to the yard they were eating a level barrow over night, so i started giving them more anyway. its the water thats baffling me tbh. the hay i had thought someone could be taking it. but why the water. i dont see how after being in a yard for a matter of weeks i could have upset someone that much. i dont see people that often as i go up 1st thing and then go late to do the night time.

im really thinking of setting a camera up to record my stables and see what happens as i cant spend all day up there.

you can imagine im half livid and half heart broken, not to mention the fact that when i take my horses water they dive on it as if they havent had it in hours!


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## Capriole (27 October 2013)

^^^ that.

Wouldn't be surprised, I've heard of it happening before, either liveries or YO.


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## Capriole (27 October 2013)

I was just going to suggest a hidden camera.


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## FlaxenPony05 (27 October 2013)

That's very odd. Camera seems like a good idea, even an unhidden one might fend off any unwanted visitors.


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## Goldenstar (27 October 2013)

Within ten minutes of you leaving they could not have eaten all that hay and drunk all that water .
Something does not make sense here .
I wd make sure the yard owner sees the stables before you leave for a few days if that's possible .
On the hay no idea how much hay your talking about or the size of your barrow or the size of your horse but my horses  if in would easily eat a traditional small bale in a day.
Perhaps consider sneaking back just after you leave and see what's going on.


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## cheeryplatypus (27 October 2013)

Does sound very odd.  I would leave them as normal, drive off and return a few mins later (pretend you forgot something) to see if you can find out what's going on.  
Else give them their hay etc on a weekend evening and then just sit with a book in with them to see how fast they are eating.  It does sound like someone may be moving it though!


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## Apercrumbie (27 October 2013)

Buy a hidden camera asap but don't tell anyone.  Explain to YM that you're upping the feed and water to placate them until you can rule out someone stealing your hay.  Obviously make sure you put up the camera when no one is watching.


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## BBH (27 October 2013)

I'm always sceptical when people say someone's getting on at them about not doing right by their horses because we see it do often, we've all been on yards where there are fickle owners who very rarely turn up and don't have 2 pennies to keep their horses fed.

As s YO I wouldn't step in unnecessarily  so if you really feel your horses have adequate attention and feed tell her so. It may be that someone else has asked her to address it.


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## Sussexbythesea (27 October 2013)

My horse would eat a tub trug of hay in less than 30 minutes. A wheel barrow full again doesn't mean a lot it would depend how tightly packed it was. I weigh my hay and net it so it can't be scoffed too quickly. If they are not grazing then you should be feeding about 2.5 per cent body weight of forage per horse. So if the horse is say 500kg then you should feed about 12.5kg hay per day just for that horse.


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## Ladyinred (27 October 2013)

I once watched a YO go to do her horse and then go into a neighbouring liveries box and take her horses hay! Unbelievable.. but having seen this for myself I realise anything is possible.

No way could your horses eat and drink that much in that short a time.


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## kerrieberry2 (27 October 2013)

I would say that one bucket is enough for over night!  I used to have 3 out in my field for 2 horses and had to fill them up once a day!  but that lasted them 24 hours so cant see why 1 bucket wouldn't last 1 horse over night

I would be surprised if they are now eating more!  maybe someone is tipping the water out!  have you upset anyone on the yard?


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## Goldenstar (27 October 2013)

Just wanted to say its good that YOers do step in if something's not right .
OP is it possible that someone is removing your hay and water ( not easy to move  a full trug without evidence of splashing ) and then telling the YO to cause trouble.


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## Roasted Chestnuts (27 October 2013)

I would give two large Haynets as a test and see if this changes things, also id give two trugs of water and take pics of the stable etc before you go also pop some twine thought your knots in yourvhaynets and take a pic then you will know if someone is tampering


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## Polos Mum (27 October 2013)

I think poping back having 'left something behind' would be a good idea - stealing others hay does happen sadly but I can't really understand why someone would empty your water buckets unless they have a real vendetor against you!

I can see why YO was cross - if they haven't seen you (if you're up at odd times) then notice horses regularly without food/ water - it's not unreasonable for the YO to be upset with you - but don't take it personally they are only doing their job. 

My horse would drink all of that tub in one night - he can finish 3 standard buckets between 10pm and 7am - he also eats a full bale of hay a day.   I could shake out one section of hay to fill a wheelbarrow and also lay sections in it to make it hold a whole bale so difficult to judge that - but if it's what they have been having for years and they look healthy it's enough for them - probably


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## Chestnut horse (27 October 2013)

Mine get half a bale a night when in and there is normally a very small amount left. This is given in two hay nets, to be truthful I don't think the trug you leave with hay is enough, but there is no way it can be eaten in half an hour. I would fill up two hay nets for each of them and two buckets of water, then insist that yard manger sees this before you go, ask her to check on them (if she is still there) after half an hour to confirm they have enough. This way no one can say they do not have enough, I much prefer my horse's to have  a small amount of hay left then I know they are getting enough.Hope this helps.


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## siennamum (27 October 2013)

Mine eat at least x2 wheelbarrows each with so much hay it nearly topples out, it just lasts - but is always eaten up by my lot. One barrow full wouldn't be any where near enough.


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## Goldenstar (27 October 2013)

The trug was for hay oh I got that wrong I thought it was water .
One of trugs would just be a snack for my lot.


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## hayinamanger (27 October 2013)

An overnight ration of hay in a trug that size is totally inadequate in my opinion.


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## SatansLittleHelper (27 October 2013)

One trug probably isnt enough...however I cant see it all being eaten quite that quickly..???
I would definately do the hidden camera


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## Pearlsasinger (27 October 2013)

I can't imagine that your horse can have finished all the hay and water in such a short time but it doesn't sound as if you are giving 15handers enough of either.  If you have recently increased your hay, they will be drinking more as well.  My 16hh Draft horse empties a trug twice the size of yours most night, our 15.3hh Appy had a trug a bit bigger than yours their first night in this year and emptied it - she now has one much bigger.
As for hay, really you need to weigh it - horses need about 2.5% of their bodyweight in hay.  Unless they have a tendency to fat, it is a good idea to give them enough so that they have just a bit left in the morning.
having said all that, your YO could and should have been more professional and polite when she spoke to you about your horses.


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## Capriole (27 October 2013)

Where does it say the hay is in a trug, I keep reading it and must be missing it.


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## Wagtail (27 October 2013)

Is the wheel barrow filled with loose ore tightly packed slabs of hay? All the horses here would devour a heaped wheel barrow full inside an hour if it was loose hay (such as that pulled from a large bale). The horses here that are on ad lib haylage get four slabs of small bale haylage at night (9 pm). They would also have 3 slabs at 4 pm. The adlib horses get through a small bale a day in the winter.


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## southerncomfort (27 October 2013)

I think the OP says that they have a large trug of water and wheelbarrow full of hay plus hard feed in a snack ball.

Could it be that the grass is less nutritious at your new yard so they are needing more hay/fibre to keep them going?

Personally, I'm not sure that measuring by the barrow-load is the most efficient way!   Plus if you put it in nets it will slow them down and it will hopefully last a bit longer.


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## Chestnut horse (27 October 2013)

Capriole here
i had a phone call from the YM to say my horses never have hay, they checked my stables 10 mins after i left and they had no hay or water. i give my horses http://www.diy.com/nav/garden/garden...?skuId=9676150 bucket, they have that filled right to the top every night and morning. (they are in at the moment, waiting for the vet to give the OK to go out again


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## Capriole (27 October 2013)

Chestnut horse said:



			Capriole here
i had a phone call from the YM to say my horses never have hay, they checked my stables 10 mins after i left and they had no hay or water. i give my horses http://www.diy.com/nav/garden/garden...?skuId=9676150 bucket, they have that filled right to the top every night and morning. (they are in at the moment, waiting for the vet to give the OK to go out again
		
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That doesnt say the trug is for hay and not the water that is going at a rate of knots as well. Read it again.


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## joelb (27 October 2013)

Ladyinred said:



			I once watched a YO go to do her horse and then go into a neighbouring liveries box and take her horses hay! Unbelievable.. but having seen this for myself I realise anything is possible.
		
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Me too, its why I left my last yard.  Took me a while to realise as I was on full livery but my horse was losing weight and early morning spot checks revealed my haynet was taken down and re-tied daily.  I snuck back through the fields one evening hid in the barn and watched them do it to all their paying customers. 

OP as others have said you really need to weigh and net your hay.


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## Oscar (27 October 2013)

Think the tub trug is for their water?  The hay is from the wheelbarrow


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## vieshot (27 October 2013)

If your worried about them being left with no grub then why don't you give them a straw net alongside their haynet? I don't like my fatties to eat to much haylage not to mention the costs so they get a big net full of haylage plus another net with straw. That way once they have finished their haylage they still have something to snack on through the night. They don't like it so much so they don't gorge on it and normally have a tiny bit left by morning. 

Unsure if I'm reading your post correctly but a trug full or even a level wheelbarrow of loose hay is unlikely to be enough.


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## SatansLittleHelper (27 October 2013)

Capriole said:



			That doesnt say the trug is for hay and not the water that is going at a rate of knots as well. Read it again.
		
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You are right...I think we have misinterpreted that 
Apologies OP. 
How exactly do you measure out and feed your hay?? X


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## Spring Feather (27 October 2013)

Goldenstar said:



			The trug was for hay oh I got that wrong I thought it was water .
One of trugs would just be a snack for my lot.
		
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And mine.  Wouldn't last any of mine longer than 10 or 15 mins to be honest.


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## honetpot (27 October 2013)

A heaped barrow of hay could weigh very little or if it was still in slices an awful lot. But why would you use a barrow as a measure? A small bale of hay weighs about 22kilos, so its easy to work out how much your horse weighs and give the right amount but most horses would need about 12kilos or about half a bale unless the grazing is good. My baby 14.2 yearling is eating a third of a bale a night with no waste. When I feed the young stock in the field I usually start with a full bales but if I have half bales 2/3 of a bale will wedge on end in slices in a standard builders wheel barrow, if I filled it with loose hay no matter how high I piled it there would not be enough. I think you need to weigh your hay.


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## Toffee44 (27 October 2013)

Just an idea, get a haynet sacrifice the rope for bale twine, put hay in, tie up in impossible to untie knot ( ie only cutting it will set it free) see what happens then about hay disappearing. You could be really clever and go and buy some coloured twine so it can't be easily replaced.

Oh and then get off the yard.


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## fattylumpkin (27 October 2013)

I measure my hay in trugs too  A 40l trug can hold about 4-5kg of poorer dry hay from a round bale, more if you really pack it in, and the weight goes up for good quality small square bale hay.  My mare lives out at grass but she gets several trugs periodically through the day.  She's a good doer and gets through one trug in about 45 minutes, less if she pulls it out of the feeder and spreads it around the floor.

It does seem like some of your hay is vanishing OP, I hope you find the culprit!  The water is an even bigger mystery!


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## Sussexbythesea (27 October 2013)

I think the trug bit is confusing due to it not being explicit as to whether it is filled with hay or water so I think I might have confused that - whoops  Nevertheless really you need to know rough weight as a wheelbarrow of loose hay won't be as much as say a wheel barrow of compacted half a bale or so.


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## Polos Mum (27 October 2013)

If the OP has a tub of one thing and a wheelbarrow full of the other I think it's safe to assume she doesn't put a wheelbarrow full of water in her stable - totally agree one persons wheelbarrow is different to the next persons but equally unlikely either could be completely eaten in 10 mins so something odd going on at the OP's yard


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## Love (27 October 2013)

Trug is for water, hay is in a barrow. 

However, I now have to tip my boys Haynets out as he eats them (don't ask) and was surprised just how much hay is in a Haynet. If I were to guesstimate the amount before seeing that I would be under by quite a lot! 

Saying that, not even my nag could eat a barrow of hay in 10 mins and that really is saying a lot! 

I'd accidentally on purpose leave something down there and nip back after 15 mins


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## MiniMilton (27 October 2013)

Don't go to the expense of cameras just yet. The haynet ideas are good. It's more cumbersome to steal hay from a haynet. Besides it will slow your horses down eating. Put 2 buckets of water in and see what happens.

People are oddballs and troublemakers so I wouldn't be surprised if someone was interfering with them. I used to do the hay for 2 girls horses. We supplied our own hay so I took hay from their individual stashes. The horses were both 16.2 so I gave them similar amounts. I noticed that when one of the girls arrived up her horse suddenly had 50%more hay and her "best friends" horse had 50% less hay. Both horses were still out in the field so nobody had been nibbling on it. If people do these sort of things to good friends then god only knows what someone would do if they took a dislike to you.


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## susi (27 October 2013)

thank you for your replies. ive just got back from the yard. i left 5 carrots in my feed bin (i dont keep feed in it as it was growing legs) checked it tonight and theres 3 1/2 carrots left! so there is part of an answer.

I crammed as much hay in a trug (never knew what they were called so thank you for that ) and got 4 filled tightly with what i used to feed. now i think it would be about 9-10 being realistic. you cant see straw for hay its crazy. there is absolutely no way they are eating it all.  im about to start looking into a camera for both my stables. i guess id need permission for the tack room etc. 


the only person i ever really speak to other than the YM is a lad an i know he wants another horse and cant because there isnt a stable. he couldnt before because his parents were paying but he now has a part time job. thats the only person i really ever speak to there and thats very rarley.

i went back after leaving them for 3 hours tonight, my mare had about 2cms of water left in her trug. shes a bad drinker i often have to encourage her to actually drink so theres no way on this earth shes drunk that. my gelding had 1/4 left and for me that good going.

i realistically cant go back for something ive forgotten as i work full time and am a single parent so have to pay for my child care. taking the kids up isnt an option as they both have special needs (my horses are my time away from work and my kids needs, a break for me. well supposed to be)

i have just ordered 2 haynets (large obviously lol) for my gelding. my mare fights with haynets and the nets tend to win , learnt that the hard way donkeys years ago.

this just leaves such a nasty taste.

if i was doing something wrong i would want to know and to sort it as my horses are my pets. my mare i have had sinvce she was a foal, shes nearly 19.

thank you again


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## Polos Mum (27 October 2013)

TBH If I felt the need to have cameras I'd just move yards - like you say, it's your hobby and you want to enjoy it not worry about other peoples craziness.  It's a shame as they are in the wrong but life is just too short.  

Even if you filmed them going in and emptying your water - what would you do?


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## Gloi (27 October 2013)

Just a thought. Has your horse started drinking a lot more recently which is why the trug is empty. Mine started doing so a few weeks ago and it was the first sign of Cushings.


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## riding_high (27 October 2013)

just a thought but could the hay be dusty and your horses are "dunking" it in the water to eat it?
there are 2 horses on the yard that do this, one of them always has hay in the water bucket but the other has a fairly clean bucket as it eats every last bit. by doing that they are soaking their own hay and it does use a lot of water.


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## Buddy'sMum (27 October 2013)

Polos Mum said:



			Even if you filmed them going in and emptying your water - what would you do?
		
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Upload it to YouTube? And send copies to everyone on the yard. For starters.. *evil cackle*


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## Love (27 October 2013)

Polos Mum said:



			Even if you filmed them going in and emptying your water - what would you do?
		
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Then OP would have solid proof of the offender (if there is one) and be able confront them without fear of accusing someone who is innocent


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## Queenbee (28 October 2013)

cheeryplatypus said:



			Does sound very odd.  I would leave them as normal, drive off and return a few mins later (pretend you forgot something) to see if you can find out what's going on.  
Else give them their hay etc on a weekend evening and then just sit with a book in with them to see how fast they are eating.  It does sound like someone may be moving it though!
		
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Personally, what I would do is not leave the yard.  I'd bring in feed, hay and water... Then set about cleaning my tack, and having a grand clear out of all my tack, grooming kit and feed bin area... That should take a good hour and a half to two hours (make it last that long). Then you can be onsite, to prove that the horse does not eat or drink that fast, and to prove just how much is actually gone in that space of time.  Then, you can do the driving away and coming back test... If anything is different you have some form of proof that there has been someone meddling.


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## Polos Mum (28 October 2013)

Love said:



			Then OP would have solid proof of the offender (if there is one) and be able confront them without fear of accusing someone who is innocent
		
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And what would you expect from a confrontation?  That they promise not to do it again or the YO kicks them off?? It sounded like only a small yard so that kind of thing would create a really nasty atmosphere and if the 'offender' is a long term livery there's no guarantee YO will be on the OP side.   

I can't imagine the mentality of a person who would take water away from any animal and I wouldn't want to stay on a yard where those kind of people are around


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## MiJodsR2BlinkinTite (28 October 2013)

hayinamanger said:



			An overnight ration of hay in a trug that size is totally inadequate in my opinion.
		
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Mmmm, I was unsure too OP: is this trug for the WATER or the amount of HAY you give your horses.

But I think you said that you gave them a "wheelbarrow-full" for overnight???? I'm a bit unclear, sorry!

What time of the night do you "do" them, i.e. is it say 5pm, or 6pm....... (early evening??) because in that case they could well be eating up all that hay and drinking the water in the trug, if the hay is loose particularly they'll gobble it up mega-quick. As a YO I've seen owners put in full haynets & drinking water enough for them to drown in at say 5pm, but at 10pm its all gone!!!

So personally I'd have a re-think, NOT about the amounts necesarily, but away the WAY that you're feeding mebbe? For instance, it might be that you need to consider double or even triple-netting, i.e. get a load of small-holed/haylage nets and then fill one, and once you've filled it, stuff it into another one so you've got a double layer. This makes a heck of a lot of difference in the speed they'll eat it up; if I give my two loose hay it will just disappear very quickly.

Also...... re the water; horses if they're in, especially now its so mild, will drink far more than you'd think possible, especially if they're having dry feed and dry hay. So I'd be inclined to get another trug of water and bung in, and see if there's any left by the morning.

I would think it unlikely that someone else is pinching hay & water TBH; know it goes on, but think YO is merely being observant and letting an owner know if she thinks there's a potential problem rather than victimising anyone. Er, that's what the YO is there for!


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## dogatemysalad (28 October 2013)

Attach a bike cable lock to the haynets. No one will be able to remove the hay. 
If someone was empty the water, you'd see splashed water, so perhaps they need more water. Soaked hay will help reduce their thirst or give two buckets of water. 
Is the water supply in the field ok? If it's contaminated, they may be coming in and drinking straight away. 

If someone is deliberately removing hay and particularly, water, I'd be very worried. It's not normal behaviour.


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## em_123 (28 October 2013)

Do up and leave the yard ten minutes earlier than you usually would  go down the road leave it a few minutes and go back hopefully you'll catch whoever it is in the act.

There is no way a horse would be drinking and eating that much in ten minutes.

In 3 hrs it is possible.


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## tinap (28 October 2013)

I think it is quite likely that they are being eaten/drunk in a few hours (although not 10 mins  ). My 15.2hh has a 75ltr tub trug of water a night, some mornings its just about still full, others its virtually empty. Also if I put loose hay in its gone extremely quickly (within an hour or 2). I have to put a big haylage net in & there's not often much left the next morning. 

I would hang about for an extra hour or feed up an hour early if you don't have time to stay longer & just monitor what they are actually eating & drinking. Tbh I can't see why anyone would pinch water & would think it would be easier to pinch hay from your supply not from your stable unless of course the stables are nearer than the tap & hay store xx


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## Marydoll (28 October 2013)

My guys will devour hay or haylage from the floor my gelding would eat what youve described from the floor in just over an hour probably 16.2 warmblood, he dunks hay or haylage in water and used to have very little water left in the morning because of this. i now give  him a big trawler net full which he scoffs then he has a smaller net full but double netted that lasts him till morning as hes a greedy horse.
One mare can match him 16hh the other older girl only eats her big net, but has a big tub trug of Haleys just grass as well with some nuts through that she picks at all night as well, so while it night not be gone in 10 mins it will probably be gone before morning. Could the grazing be poorer than where you were, so theyre eating more ?


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## Love (28 October 2013)

Polos Mum said:



			And what would you expect from a confrontation?  That they promise not to do it again or the YO kicks them off?? It sounded like only a small yard so that kind of thing would create a really nasty atmosphere and if the 'offender' is a long term livery there's no guarantee YO will be on the OP side.   

I can't imagine the mentality of a person who would take water away from any animal and I wouldn't want to stay on a yard where those kind of people are around
		
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If I had solid proof someone was taking my horses hay and water I certainly would confront them! I wouldn't just leave them to get on with it that's for sure!


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## Polos Mum (28 October 2013)

Love said:



			If I had solid proof someone was taking my horses hay and water I certainly would confront them! I wouldn't just leave them to get on with it that's for sure! 

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Oh I wouldn't leave them to get on with it - I'd be out asap and onto a new yard.  Someone who'd take water away from any animal knowing they would then be without all night must be a total nut job and not someone I'd start an arguement with - who knows where it might end, I'm probably more anti confrontation than most as OH is policeman and has to clear up the mess when confronting people goes bad !! 

Hay can be expensive and theaving it has some logic - but water = someone nasty (IMHO).


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## Love (28 October 2013)

Polos Mum said:



			Oh I wouldn't leave them to get on with it - I'd be out asap and onto a new yard.  Someone who'd take water away from any animal knowing they would then be without all night must be a total nut job and not someone I'd start an arguement with - who knows where it might end, I'm probably more anti confrontation than most as OH is policeman and has to clear up the mess when confronting people goes bad !! 

Hay can be expensive and theaving it has some logic - but water = someone nasty (IMHO).
		
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Sorry Polos Mum, i misread your earlier post, hadn't seen where you had said you would rather move than confront, i was under the impression you would just ignore it all completely and carry on!  
If talking to them didn't work id get the heck out of there too!


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## MileAMinute (28 October 2013)

Polos Mum said:



			Hay can be expensive and theaving it has some logic - but water = someone nasty (IMHO).
		
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Agree, but on the principle that taking either thing is nasty and illogical. You wouldn't steal an injured horse's bute, so why deny it of it's basic needs?
This kind of thing really angers me, if you don't like the person, fair enough, but why take it out on an innocent animal?

I would follow others advice, OP, and monitor your horses input whilst at the yard. If horses are taking in that much hay and water, adjust accordingly, if someone is taking it, move pronto.


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## Annagain (28 October 2013)

MiJodsR2BlinkinTite said:



			Mmmm, I was unsure too OP: is this trug for the WATER or the amount of HAY you give your horses.

But I think you said that you gave them a "wheelbarrow-full" for overnight???? I'm a bit unclear, sorry!

What time of the night do you "do" them, i.e. is it say 5pm, or 6pm....... (early evening??) because in that case they could well be eating up all that hay and drinking the water in the trug, if the hay is loose particularly they'll gobble it up mega-quick. As a YO I've seen owners put in full haynets & drinking water enough for them to drown in at say 5pm, but at 10pm its all gone!!!

So personally I'd have a re-think, NOT about the amounts necesarily, but away the WAY that you're feeding mebbe? For instance, it might be that you need to consider double or even triple-netting, i.e. get a load of small-holed/haylage nets and then fill one, and once you've filled it, stuff it into another one so you've got a double layer. This makes a heck of a lot of difference in the speed they'll eat it up; if I give my two loose hay it will just disappear very quickly.

Also...... re the water; horses if they're in, especially now its so mild, will drink far more than you'd think possible, especially if they're having dry feed and dry hay. So I'd be inclined to get another trug of water and bung in, and see if there's any left by the morning.

I would think it unlikely that someone else is pinching hay & water TBH; know it goes on, but think YO is merely being observant and letting an owner know if she thinks there's a potential problem rather than victimising anyone. Er, that's what the YO is there for!

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I think OP has clarified that? She measured the amount she was giving by stuffing it as tightly as possible into the (water) tub trug and found she was feeding about 4 very tightly packed tub trugs full. Still not sure what that is weight wise, but it's certainly a lot more than some people were thinking.


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## pip6 (28 October 2013)

Indeed, I knew one livery who'd drag her horse in about 4pm on its filthy bed, literally give him a trug of hay, then disappear off. If you were the unfortunate who was first down on a sat or sun (was usually me - silly me for actually getting up & working / riding), she would expect you to put feed in (first down had to put in all feeds - I can understand stops ill mannered ones banging, but felt it abused those who already had to get up earlier for work over those who didn't work & could lay in), & hang up a net so she could appear guilt free down yard about 11am, hours after horse had finished hay. I refused to ever do the net so she had to get her lazy backside out of bed, she only worked part-time, I work 6 days a week. Don't see why I should get up extra early for her. Poor sod was left for hours eating his sh55ty straw bed (only ever took a few poos out daily, no idea what she did in her time down there, wasn't riding). YO knew & we were not to interefere. Not a livery there now. So some people do feed rediculously small amounts (not saying you are OP, just that it is a valid question to ask for clarification). Do consider weighing how much you put in (just weigh trug first so you know how much to deduct). That weigh you can know for certain you've put more in (& say to YO I have increased it by e.g. 25%) & how much he needs each day. As with water, mine (15.1) - (16) get through 1/2 to 1 large trug per night (10-11 hours).


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## Fides (1 April 2014)

Did you ever get to the bottom of this?

Fwiw that bucket you have linked too is quite small... I had the next size up and my 14h2 would drink 1 and a half overnight between 8pm and 7am...

Getting bigger buckets and weighing the hay could solve all problems


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## noodle_ (1 April 2014)

old thread but id be intrested to know too?

i give mine three nets a day...one for breakfast, and two at night - she never finishes them!...but they are there if she wants them 

as for water - she has a flexi tub which  she also never drinks all of it... 

if you suspect someone stealing id be putting up a camera, tying nets a certain way etc


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## HaffiesRock (1 April 2014)

I remember this thread too, would like to know the outcome.

Consumption of hay varies with my two, depending on the quality. I can give them a small bale of last years hay between them in the field of an evening and they'll still be picking at it in the morning. The new hay however, can be polished off in a little under an hour!

Water wise, I have a standard black garden bin and a huge blue container which holds probably twice what the dustbin holds. I need to fill them up every other day. They easily empty a large trug when back from exercise too.


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## flurryjuno (1 April 2014)

She posted another thread today I think looking for another yard, maybe it wasn't a good outcome


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## el_Snowflakes (1 April 2014)

A tub trug of hay would last my horse about 20-30 min, I think yu might need to have a look at how much you are feeding!!


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## Capriole (1 April 2014)

the hay isn't in a tub trug.


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## Moomin1 (1 April 2014)

MileAMinute said:



			Agree, but on the principle that taking either thing is nasty and illogical. You wouldn't steal an injured horse's bute, so why deny it of it's basic needs?
This kind of thing really angers me, if you don't like the person, fair enough, but why take it out on an innocent animal?

I would follow others advice, OP, and monitor your horses input whilst at the yard. If horses are taking in that much hay and water, adjust accordingly, if someone is taking it, move pronto.
		
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Fully agree with this. Why anybody would want to deny a horse of their basic daily needs is beyond me.   Then again, some people just don't care. 

Sounds to me like there's more to this story than OP let on.


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## Fides (3 April 2014)

For those who are interested, this is what an 8kg net looks like when loaded on a wheelbarrow. The wheelbarrow is a 110 litre not the standard 95 litre and as a point of reference the hay has come from that 4ft bale behind


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## susi (3 April 2014)

i will happily update. yes i have posted i am looking for another yard right ow as i have ot leave. i had planned to over the summer as a priority anyway. the track where i keep my 3 is un passable for a lorry so over the winter its been impossible to move her. i was assured when i went there that the track would be sorted by the winter (this was august last uear). 

the barrow i have is a large one as well. honestly dont know how much it holds. from the look of the picture above its a little (not much though) less than in that barrow. my goats obviously get considerably less. ive always judged it by what they eat i put a little more than that in. ive had this mare coming upto 19 years and shes in great condiotion. being honest shes never looked better!

the same old story has arrisen with my goats (my mare has been forsed to live out, shes coping a little batter than to start with but she was not a happy girl for the first about 4 weeks. its that much warmer now so shes ish OK with it), so the YM cant say a thing bout it. she said on the phone on monday night she wasnt sure if it was last weekend or the weekend before that the goats had 2 inches of water. OK even if they did (which they did not!!) thats actually enough for 2 goats until its filled up againin the evening. they actually had about 1/4 of a large flexi tub full. i was going to scrub it out the night i think shes talking about. which i did then they were filled right back up again.  do this every now and again for hygines sake. the goats dont ever run out of water unless they tip their bucket over. i cant controll that.

my horse is fed hay by the barrow load, not trug to clear any confusion up  she has a trug/flexi tub of water filled to the top when in. she usually drinks about 1/4 of that durin the day and 1/2 at night. once a week i dont top it up durin the day (if she has those quanitites left) and i clean buckets out. theres no drainage in the stables so it goes into the never ending mud outside the stables. it was in winter 1/2 foot deep!! i expect that in the field where its been a foot deep bt not 1 step outside her stable. 

must confess im glad im going i just need to find a stable. i know my baled hay is growing legs shall we say. i hvent used that bale (deliberatly, ive used a different one that looks like its not open but is) and the other bale is going down ish fast by a barrow a day. basicly what i give my goats its dissapearing. this has gone on since october last year i think with hay, straw and feed. ive turned a blind eye to a lot because it suited me to do that. wish i hadnt now and left when i started looking in oct now. would have saved all this hassel. i will try and upload a photo of my 3 so you can see the condition they are all in. 

i know what has been said about me sounds like i neglect my animals and that does break my heart as i adore my 3. they arent ust animals they are all very loved little creature that i would do anything for (not just saying it ether!!).

thank you all for your advise it really has helpped me as i did doubt myself to start with


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## Spoiled cob (3 April 2014)

Hope you find a new yard soon, unfortunately there are some very spiteful people that will take things away on purpose to get back at others/jealousy etc It's very stressful to be worrying when you leave them for the day/night, hope your holding up ok.


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## tiramisu (3 April 2014)

Hope you find a new yard soon.


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## Voxhorse (4 April 2014)

You are probably best out of there Susi, considering what the other livery told you about the place picking on folk. The horse world sadly has a lot of mean nutters and it's jealousy based.

Good Luck xxx


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## susi (4 April 2014)

hopefully that should be a piccy of my beautiful girl 

Im not techy at all. this isnt a this week photo but it is from about a month ago. i think she looks better now than then as her summer coat is coming through

Thank you all for your reasurance. i didnt think i was doing anyting wrong. i do think all of this is the old fashioned horsey type of breed of person (theres a huge turn over of liveries, theres only 1 i think thats been there longer and ive only been there since august!!)



Thank you all again. just need tofind a better home for my girls now
xxx


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## Equi (4 April 2014)

Stuff er.


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## Pebble101 (4 April 2014)

Depends on wheelbarrow size and how tightly packed.  One of mine drinks nearly one of those trugs of water if he is in at night.


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## susi (4 April 2014)

argh my piccy didnt work  I have no idea how to do it then. i tried, sorry

My anmals, horse and goats have hay left and water left. the only time my horse didnt is when she dunked her hay because i left it by her water. lesson learnt so its moved and she doesnt run out now 

my lot simply wont eat those amounts of hay. i will try it next night shes in though to be sure. usually she has id guess about 6/7kg so not much less than the 8kg barrow shown. water never had an issu with this girl. my other mare she was a naughty girl and used to tip her buckets over then thro them at people in the yard she didnt like haha


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## Fides (4 April 2014)

susi said:



			argh my piccy didnt work  I have no idea how to do it then. i tried, sorry

My anmals, horse and goats have hay left and water left. the only time my horse didnt is when she dunked her hay because i left it by her water. lesson learnt so its moved and she doesnt run out now 

my lot simply wont eat those amounts of hay. i will try it next night shes in though to be sure. usually she has id guess about 6/7kg so not much less than the 8kg barrow shown. water never had an issu with this girl. my other mare she was a naughty girl and used to tip her buckets over then thro them at people in the yard she didnt like haha
		
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If your YO is saying she is running out of hay how can you claim she wouldn't eat that amount? If you look at my picture - the 8kg of hay is 2 large haynets tightly packed (and still fairly compacted on the wheelbarrow). Have you weighed how much hay you are feeding? guessing at 6kg isn't really the same... 

As I have said before - you horses may not be in poor condition as they are getting full dietary requirements over a 24 hours period. That does not however mean that being stood with no hay for extended periods is acceptable - far from it...


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## Annagain (4 April 2014)

It's very difficult to judge how much hay a horse is getting from someone else's photo of what they give theirs. I can carry what my two big boys (16.3 and 17hh IDx) eat between them overnight in one normal size wheelbarrow. They get about 15kg each (I weigh it frequently to make sure) in the middle of winter and about 10 now the grass is starting to come through. It comes from large square bales and they have a section each which are very tightly packed so it's easyto stack them one on top of another to carry. By the time I've shaken it out and fluffed it up in their hay bars, they're overflowing. In that state, one hay bar full would probably fill 2 -3 wheelbarrows!
Weighing is the only way anybody (inc OP and all those saying it's not enough) can know if the horse is getting enough and even that's not 100% accurate due to water content. If her condition's good and she seems happy that's the main thing.


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## Fides (4 April 2014)

annagain said:



			It's very difficult to judge how much hay a horse is getting from someone else's photo of what they give theirs. I can carry what my two big boys (16.3 and 17hh IDx) eat between them overnight in one normal size wheelbarrow. They get about 15kg each (I weigh it frequently to make sure) in the middle of winter and about 10 now the grass is starting to come through. It comes from large square bales and they have a section each which are very tightly packed so it's easyto stack them one on top of another to carry. By the time I've shaken it out and fluffed it up in their hay bars, they're overflowing. In that state, one hay bar full would probably fill 2 -3 wheelbarrows!
Weighing is the only way anybody (inc OP and all those saying it's not enough) can know if the horse is getting enough and even that's not 100% accurate due to water content. If her condition's good and she seems happy that's the main thing.
		
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The point I was trying to make was that my wheelbarrow is piled nearly 4 foot high and only holds 8kg - she could be seriously underestimating the amount which is why I suggested weighing it. Also a horse stood with no hay will never be a happy horse 

Edit - OP we all see threads on here "OMG X isn't feeding their horse enough but I don't know what to say" - if someone has actually challenged you on the amount you are feeding my impression is a that they may have a point and there is no conspiracy going on. If you hear hooves in a stables assume horses not zebra - ie it far more likely that you aren't putting enough hay/water in than someone is sabotaging. As I have said before - why not just put more down - problem solved!


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## LessThanPerfect (4 April 2014)

Question as a returning Lady of a Certain age, is a trug that you are all referring to one of those flexible rubbery things with integrated handles?
If so, are they better than buckets and can horses get their hooves stuck in the handles?  Probably a stupid question but I have never seen one being used, only buckets or automatic drinkers.


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## Annagain (4 April 2014)

Fides said:



			The point I was trying to make was that my wheelbarrow is piled nearly 4 foot high and only holds 8kg - she could be seriously underestimating the amount which is why I suggested weighing it. Also a horse stood with no hay will never be a happy horse 

Edit - OP we all see threads on here "OMG X isn't feeding their horse enough but I don't know what to say" - if someone has actually challenged you on the amount you are feeding my impression is a that they may have a point and there is no conspiracy going on. If you hear hooves in a stables assume horses not zebra - ie it far more likely that you aren't putting enough hay/water in than someone is sabotaging. As I have said before - why not just put more down - problem solved!
		
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I think we're making the same point. Your wheelbarrow full is very different from my wheelbarow full. OP's could be more like mine but everybody assumes it's not. I understand why but OP insists horse is in good condition and seems happy so she can't be having too little. I agree being without for long periods is not good, but it doesn't seem that we ever established she was - other than the YO's comments and OP is fairly certain YO is not 100% honest.


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## Fides (4 April 2014)

annagain said:



			I think we're making the same point. Your wheelbarrow full is very different from my wheelbarow full. OP's could be more like mine but everybody assumes it's not. I understand why but OP insists horse is in good condition and seems happy so she can't be having too little. I agree being without for long periods is not good, but it doesn't seem that we ever established she was - other than the YO's comments and OP is fairly certain YO is not 100% honest.
		
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Yeah I guess  if the complaints of underfeeding stop at new yard OP is vindicated and can give two fingers to old YO  when the spring grass is through properly the horses will need less at night anyway - mine are already leaving some and my field looks nearly bald eek


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## Capriole (4 April 2014)

LessThanPerfect said:



			Question as a returning Lady of a Certain age, is a trug that you are all referring to one of those flexible rubbery things with integrated handles?
If so, are they better than buckets and can horses get their hooves stuck in the handles?  Probably a stupid question but I have never seen one being used, only buckets or automatic drinkers.
		
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Yes, those are trugs LTP.  They are very popular nowadays, they are very flexible so don't get broken if the horse stands on then, they squish and dont cause injuries in the same way.  I've never heard of a horse getting it's hoof stuck in a trug handle, and the handles would be safer than a bucket in that way.  They are'nt as good as buckets for carrying water in, as when you pick them up by the handles they squish in and spill water instead of staying rigid like a bucket.
Used for water, feeds, and muck buckets, amongst other things.


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## Penny Less (4 April 2014)

I weigh my hay every day mainly because I have a fatty cob and don't want him getting overweight. I have seen people stuffing a large haynet and the horse eating it in a couple of hours. When said haynet is actually weighed it comes up at about 6lb. which is far too little for a 16HH. People are often saying on here  for example they give their horses two slices of hay, what does a slice weigh ?


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## teasle (4 April 2014)

Penny Less said:



			I weigh my hay every day mainly because I have a fatty cob and don't want him getting overweight. I have seen people stuffing a large haynet and the horse eating it in a couple of hours. When said haynet is actually weighed it comes up at about 6lb. which is far too little for a 16HH. People are often saying on here  for example they give their horses two slices of hay, what does a slice weigh ?
		
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About 4 lb


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## ihatework (4 April 2014)

teasle said:



			About 4 lb
		
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Depends how thick the slice is and how compressed when baling


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## putasocinit (4 April 2014)

But average is 4lb, not a lot at all


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## Fides (4 April 2014)

teasle said:



			About 4 lb
		
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Which is less than 2kg - not enough tbf


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## flirtygerty (4 April 2014)

While at a yard, it was the YM removing hay from my horses, he told another livery I was feeding too much, my measure is, if they have none left, give some more, if they leave some, give a little less, YM was used to ponies, mine were 16 3hh and a 15 2hh, followed by a 17hh, YM was new to the job and didn't have a clue, his own pony was often left from 6pm till 7am with no hay


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## Achinghips (4 April 2014)

Do you actually leave a barrow overnight in your stable, my boy would kill himself on it !


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## windand rain (5 April 2014)

mine must be terribly underfed in spite of being so fat this year I have to watch them for laminitis as they have a slice of hay between two of them and a small feed of speedibeet grass nuts and an egg cup full of linseed this year they havent lost weight at all as the grass is growing year round. Usually they drop weight March and April ready for the new grass that then come through. They do live out 24/7 but the grass is about the same length as a bowling green and they are only on half an acre each in winter less in summer. I get about 20-40 kgs of poo off the field dily in one big barrow from four ponies one 14.2 two 13hh and a 12.2 they look great year round and are in show condition with gleaming coats. The art of feeding horses is in the eye if they look good , they are bright and healthy looking it makes very little difference how much you actually feed in weight. Before anyone suggest they need more bulk and should have soaked hay or straw they would rather starve than eat it as when I had one on box rest after surgery she didnt touch any hay for the three days I soaked it I had to throw it all away (the wise said she would eat it when she got hungry fat chance) She was bedded on straw and didn't eat her bed and had a large corner manger full to the top of hi fi light which she also refused point blank to eat. So she went back to dry hay and her grass nut and speedybeet meals

Anyway I digress as I say if the horses look well and are bright and healthy then they are obviously getting enough. Water is a different issue it depends on the size of trug mine have three in the field of the large garden trugs these are emptied and refilled weekly and are probably topped up once in between. I think they hold about 6 gallons of water each


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## Arizahn (5 April 2014)

flirtygerty said:



			While at a yard, it was the YM removing hay from my horses, he told another livery I was feeding too much, my measure is, if they have none left, give some more, if they leave some, give a little less, YM was used to ponies, mine were 16 3hh and a 15 2hh, followed by a 17hh, YM was new to the job and didn't have a clue, his own pony was often left from 6pm till 7am with no hay
		
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I moved to get away from similar to this! Person involved could not grasp that an animal that is still growing will need more food than one that is mature. Pony is much happier now, although currently having so much fun that he is running off calories almost as fast as we can get them into him...


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## pixie (5 April 2014)

Yes, horses hay needs can vary considerably.
My 13hh welshy gets 4.5kg in an elimanet and will eat most of it by the morning.
Older 16hh tb livery eats no more than 4kg each night and always has loads left in her nets
young 16hh connie livery gets a massive 9kg haynet and will demolish the majority of it.


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## amandap (5 April 2014)

Fides said:









For those who are interested, this is what an 8kg net looks like when loaded on a wheelbarrow. The wheelbarrow is a 110 litre not the standard 95 litre and as a point of reference the hay has come from that 4ft bale behind
		
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Great  photo!


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## Queenbee (5 April 2014)

amandap said:



			Great  photo!
		
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I agree.  That barrow is pretty much what ben gets everynight, I barrow it to the stable then stuff it into his hayhutch.  Its all gone by the morning.


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## susi (5 April 2014)

think its mostly common sence isnt it. like the OP said if theres a lot of hay left feed less if theres none left feed more. when i had more than 1 horse i fed each a different amount. my mare is gleaming and in perfect condition. I will admit the goats look a bit scruffy but they are changing to summer coats so a little patchy. this obviously happens annualy so its a deal ith it thing. 

Its like living out 24/7. im not anti horses doing that at all, some horses its sooo good for them for medical happiness or bordom reasons. 

i think in my mares perfect world she could go out for 2 hours come in them go out again for a couple of hours in the afternoon.
shes not an outdoors type of horse. no idea why. i literally have to drag her back to the field coming in shes trying to get in as fast as she can without being nughty bless her. cant wait to find a yard and get her away shes breking my heart shes so unhapy


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## Fides (5 April 2014)

susi said:



			think its mostly common sence isnt it. like the OP said if theres a lot of hay left feed less if theres none left feed more.
		
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I don't think the OP did say this - the thread is about the YO claiming the horse wasn't being fed enough.

My view is if that the horse is perceieved by others as being stood for too long without hay and water, what harm would it do to put more down. Or even use a trickle net to slow down the eating of the amount she does feed. OP still hasn't got back to us with how much the hay actually weighs...


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## lizbet (5 April 2014)

Can you ever really relax there.Are you worried about your horses when you are not there. ? Lifes to short.


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