# Badminton XC - thoughts?



## kit279 (24 April 2011)

Just wondering what everyone thought of the course, horses and riders today?

There are some really nice horses out there - I particularly liked Aoife Clark's two and the German mare lying in 2nd place was super, as well as that lovely grey mare Roma ML.  I thought Ruth Edge was very unlucky as I thought she rode really positively today so a real shame for her not to have gone clear.  

Also there are a fair few threads in other parts of the forum about 'whip abuse'.  I'm surprised by this as most of the riders I saw were trying to encourage their horses to jump better and help them out rather than punish them.  I didn't see anyone hit their horse in a temper and I wouldn't have called it abuse? Am I the only person who thinks that?


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## only_me (24 April 2011)

I only saw the last hour really, and saw some fantastic riding, and no abuse of the whip.

the horses's I thought really felt the fast going and heat, which probably surprised a lot of riders at the end when their horses' were becoming more tired!


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## NinjaPony (24 April 2011)

I thought there was some terrible riding- Andreas Ostholt, his horse was so tired, and he was not helping in the slightest- and some really good rounds- I paticularly enjoyed Lucinda Freidricks round, her mare looked up for it, fit and scopey.
Opposition Buzz had a great round as well, as did Lenamore.
Mark Todd's horse was tired, but he got it round safely. You are not the only person who thinks that. MT hit his horse to get it over a jump safely after a very sticky moment, then didn't use it again. He had no choice but to ride forward, or they could have been in trouble. 
However, there were a lot of falls, more than usual, which was a bit worrying. But there was some really good riding there.


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## kickonchaps (24 April 2011)

Whip thing was really interesting, esp after the big thread in NL a little while ago about people misusing the whip, and lots of comments from people saying they've never had to whip any horse of theirs to make it jump! 

I think on the whole the whip was used fairly and correctly, with the exception of thingy Osthalt at the end who was horrific!! And I'm sorry Bruce Davidson, I love you but I can't stand the way your son rides 

Nicola Wilson was AMAZING though, loved her round, as was Laura Colette, gutted for Emily Baldwin though (actually she was one who I thought probably did lose her rag at the water and shouldn't have hit the horse when she did and as hard as she did, don't think it helped)

Great day's viewing though, bring on tomorrow!!


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## NeverSayNever (24 April 2011)

interested to hear thoughts on Emily Llewellens round? The horse seemed to be fighting her the whole way round and got a fair few smacks to remind it to listen. Im not anti whip btw, just interested. I take it her horse doesnt usually go like this?


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## loveshorses (24 April 2011)

Totally agree about Andreas Ostholt! I love Lucinda's mare she looked to be loving every stride of it and finished happy.
Think abuse may be a little much but did see some unnecessary use of the whip , didn't see who but some one gave theirs 3 behind the legs after the 2nd from last which I cant see any need for and saw some badly timed use if it swell .... really hate the whole smack it when its landed thing and think when they've got you out of a sticky situation and stood up the last thing they want is a smack ... although it wont stop as its from the training at the top!


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## Supertrooper (24 April 2011)

I thought that lucinda, nicola and the german lady rode beautifully, I didn't see the german horse finish but lucinda and nicola's horse looked incredibly fit and full of running and it was nice to see. Nicola's round was pure class, and buzz looked like he had wings!

The rides that made me cringe where ruth's, I just don't think the horse has his heart in it. Karen O'conners horse should of been retired before the bank and it was not nice to see him falling off backwards. Oli I thought was actually riding really well but a horse that hangs legs like ACM is a disaster waiting to happen. Andreas should of been pulled up by the stewards and I don't know why it wasn't done TBH, that horse was knackered and he should of behaved better at the finish re caring for horse! I'm not sure what I think re mark Todd, TBH I think if it had been anyone else I'd be more cross that he didn't pull up BUT I do think he did a very good job at nursing the horse home and we'll see if horse passes trot up tomorrow


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## loveshorses (24 April 2011)

I didnt see Emily Llewellens round but have been told it was quite ugly ......


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## Puppy (24 April 2011)

Nicola & Opposition Buzz were awesome  I loved watching their round  

I think the heat was very wearing on the horses today.  I wouldn't say that there were any more falls than usual, but just more tired horses to be seen, due to the weather.


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## Santa_Claus (24 April 2011)

Emily l was ott with whip IMHO she gave it a couple of reminders on run in to water (before truck element) which ok maybe bad last jump and needed reminder but she was very late with the three after the stop i.e. About 6-10 secs after the stop. 

Overall some very tierd horses half way never mind end. A few got away with murder at water alone where I was and also sone v nasty falls and thoughts with all especially camilla who I saw fall.


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## Puppy (24 April 2011)

loveshorses said:



			I didnt see Emily Llewellens round but have been told it was quite ugly ......
		
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I don't think 'ugly' is quite the right word, but it's fair to say that the horse didn't make it easy for her at all and she was having to work very hard. 

I should have also mentioned in my above post how blooming marvelous Mister Pooh is!  What a horse!


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## NicoleS_007 (24 April 2011)

I watched most of it  Some fab riding, with alot of hairy moments  Disapointed that Pippa withdrew. Loved Lucindas round, very well ridden, Ruth Edge was going so well until her refusal. Was a bit disappointed as we didnt see much of Joseph Murphys round. I dont think there was whip abuse but Emily L's round was a bit ummm odd!! As said before looked like the horse was fighting her, i felt it got alot of slaps for no reason  I know if my horse runs off with me a slap just makes her resist and fight even more but im no expert thats just my opinion.


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## Firewell (24 April 2011)

I thought it was a great day's XC, real Badminton. At the end of the day this is meant to be the toughest XC test in the world and I thought it fitted the bill - lots of thrills and spills but everyone got home safely.
I thought it really separated the wheat from the chaff. The top class 4 star horses who were ridden superbly made little work of it, whereas anyone who didn't ride with respect or who's horses were not fit enough, brave or scopey enough floundered. That was my view anyway.
In particular I thought Lucinda federicks was bloody amazing how she gave that horse confidence. Mark Todd showed class riding on a lovely but tired horse. I felt sorry for Ruth edge as she didn't do anything wrong, horse just looked like it lacked bottle?
Some interesting riding though as well I thought!
Oh an opposition Buzz could have gone round with his eyes shut, gorgeous. Andrew Nicholson also showed everyone how to do it getting 2 horses clear and within time.
WTF about the whip abuse thread in NL?? Honestly they should stick to happy hacking, they clearly do not understand. This is Badminton not fiddlesticks. The worst riding of the day? That German dude, Andreas. Felt a bit sorry for his horse, it looked so genuine as well at the beginning. Also Karen O Connors horse, I would have retired after 2 stops. I think it's going to have a pretty miserable memory of XC having fallen down that step and it was so trying to be brave .
I loved every second of watching Badders though, can't wait for the SJ it's going to be nailbiting


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## ringtor (24 April 2011)

Number 100 - Andreas Aisholt? - was really thrashing his horse before the Quarry.  He was wobbling in the saddle.  Neither he nor the horse were fit enough for the course.  I hope the authorities take notice.


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## Supertrooper (24 April 2011)

Can't believe I forgot mister pooh - loved him!!!! Oh and zeus of rushall!!


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## Jesstickle (24 April 2011)

Opposition Buzz was round of the day for me. Made it look easy and looked like he enjoyed every minute of it.

As to abuse of the whip? I don't think I saw any today frankly. Three smacks on the bum is not the end of the world. In fairness they were a bit late but I believe the horse makes a habit of stopping at water so probably deserved them. Just MO though of course.


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## Jane_Lou (24 April 2011)

I was loving Sarah Wardell's horse Killeenduff Boy, what made him not put the landing gear out at the water only he knows!

Mister Pooh was super and Opposition Buzz was awesome.

I was very impressed with Aiofe Clark, to get two round in her first Badminton is quite and acheivement and her dressage on her 2nd horse shows that Ireland has a new guard that can do dressage as well as the "fun bits"


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## amage (24 April 2011)

I def would not consider Emily's use of the whip abusive. Horse was a sod, he's had issues with water before, threw in a downright dirty stop and she hit him as she was picking up canter to represent. Toddy...i'm not convinced....horse was very very tired and while he did have to ride him forward I do wonder should he have been pulled up!


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## sleepingdragon10 (24 April 2011)

NeverSayNever said:



			interested to hear thoughts on Emily Llewellens round? The horse seemed to be fighting her the whole way round and got a fair few smacks to remind it to listen. Im not anti whip btw, just interested. I take it her horse doesnt usually go like this?
		
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TBH, when I saw the initial whip abuse thread, I assumed it was about this ride.
Yes, the horse was making her life rather difficult, but she did seem to be using her whip in anger, even slapping his bum after the penultimate fence, rather than in a constructive way as with MT, who gave his horse a reminder in order to remind it to jump properly.

I think anyone who honestly believes though that either rider was truly abusive needs to wake up and smell the coffee.
Taking a softly softly approach and accepting anything other than total focus is dangerous for both horse AND  rider.


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## Santa_Claus (24 April 2011)

Btw my reply was meant to read 'a little ott' but phone stupid and can't edit on mobile version  

Def not abuse in the proper sense though more mistimed IMHO.


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## JenTaz (24 April 2011)

really enjoyed watching it today, was rather confused with stephanie (number 93) i didnt realise that they were allowed to go xc with fixed peak hats on but then im used to pony club and riding club rules only skull caps allowed above 2ft6 The german guy andreas, both of his rounds were ridiculous, bad riding and unfit horses, I understand it would have been hot down at badminton today but they should still have thought about the weather conditions to have the horses fit enough they all know how challenging badders is on the horses, but thats my opinion. Was gutted to see carolyne ryan bell and rathmoyle king have a fall you cant beat a nice irish horse


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## Bedlam (24 April 2011)

With regards to whip use close to the end of the course on the flat - I have heard Yogi Breisner's advice on how to tell whether or not to pull your horse up when it's tiring. Don't quote me on the order he suggested you do this (it's my daughter that events not me), but the last test of whether you should pull up is to give your horse 3 sharp smacks behind the leg on the flat to see if you get a response. If there's nothing there then you should pull up even if you only have 1 fence to go.

I think it comes after a few sharp kicks and picking up the reins to take a hold........but it's the order that I'm not quite sure of. If I've got it wrong I'm sure someone will correct me.


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## FFF (24 April 2011)

I was there but missed a lot of whats happening as the commentry wasnt amazing when I walked the course.

I thought Nicola and Buzz was awesome  the roar of the crowd coming into the arena was amazing. Fingers crossed for a clear from her tomorrow.

Lenamore, Rayef, Mister Poo and Prada were excellent. LF gave Prada a lovely ride. 

Pardon Me II was always fighting, watched her through the quarry and she really strugged to get control but by that time she was already over which was a great shame.
Not surpried OT had trouble (disappointed for him though). ACM hasn't looked quite right since Kentucky. Always leaving legs everywhere, and I think that OT pushing him didn't help. Just a bit hesitent in places.

Saw Emily B over the Hexagon Hedge and Colt Pond and she was going very well so disappointed for her to retire. 

Does anyone know if I can watch it online at all? Cant wait til tomorrow now   and hope Ingrid, Camilla, Louise, Karen and Elizabeth and horses are all okay

Would have loved to ride Joseph Murphy's horse round. Looked very pingy and safe.


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## kerilli (24 April 2011)

some great riding and some shocking riding imho. i thought EL was justified in giving that horse 3 smacks, he could have gone, he has oodles of scope, he's let her down at 4* water a few times before. It wasn't a perfect approach but other riders go away with far worse because their horses were honest and generous.
I hate the way Buck rides.
I thought Marina was the only one of the Germans who rode well, normally i'm a big fan of Ingrid but she was riding much too fast imho, I saw that fall coming about 10 fences before. Ostholt was horrible. I remember Marina the last time she rode at Badders, hope she goes v well tomorrow. Would love Toddy or Nicola and Buzz to win.
I felt so so sorry for Ruth, being held did not help that horse at all, and even though she was doing all she could, he looks the sort who gets suspicious if driven. He could have helped her out.
V sorry for Caroline Ryan-Bell too, was looking great till then.
Aoife Clark is seriously classy. 
Ditto some of the YRs.
Buzz was awesome. Interesting that her other horse jumped a bit like Buzz too though.
Toddy did a fabulous job. Fine to wake up a tired horse with a slap, and ride home with hands and heels.
Whoever it was who rode the final gallop stretch as if it was the Grand National finish, not good.
OT's horse is a horrible dangler. I saw that one coming a mile off too, poor Oli didn't deserve that, he was doing a great job out there.
I thought Cinders rode fantastically and that mare was utterly awesome.
Could go on and on. Some stunning horses that I really covet, but some not quite so appealing! Some great riding and some surprisingly bad riding.
I was pleased to hear Pippa and Ian saying about the coffin canter. Shocked me how some riders approached that fence. Oli was clever, obv didn't trust that horse to keep its knees up even at that reasonably early stage...  
Feel desperately sorry for Mandiba, esp if he ran back and fell off the bank because of the airjacket going off (as has been said on COTH). V lucky not to break his back, apparently has a broken rib, poor lad.

you can watch it online at FEI tv, btw.


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## Chloe_GHE (24 April 2011)

OPPOSITION BUZZ - best round absolute poetry

Vicky Brake - lovely riding never really been on my radar before v impressed

Generally thought there were a lot of falls and a lot of tired horses, but that heat, plus hard going it's to be expected

PARTLY PICKLED - so sad to see him fall but very impressed with the quick treatment to bring him down in temp and make him feel better asap


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## CalllyH (24 April 2011)

Why has oli been eliminated? I missed that.


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## RuthnMeg (24 April 2011)

Can anyone fill me in on what happened to Elizabeth Power? Hope she is ok - and her horse too.
I am trying to catch up some XC recorded from earlier, missing out chunks due to 'technology blips' ...grrrrr


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## kerilli (24 April 2011)

CalllyH said:



			Why has oli been eliminated? I missed that.
		
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ACM left a leg for the third and final time at 2nd log of the quarry. luckily they didn't turn over, but horse fell onto nose and belly and OT came off.

Eliz Power had a fall at the sunken road. took them ages to stabilise her on the back board apparently but on the other thread it says she's okay. she was airlifted straight off the course, hence long delay.


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## elliebean (24 April 2011)

kerilli said:



			some great riding and some shocking riding imho. i thought EL was justified in giving that horse 3 smacks, he could have gone, he has oodles of scope, he's let her down at 4* water a few times before. It wasn't a perfect approach but other riders go away with far worse because their horses were honest and generous.
		
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Agreed, but that was Emily Baldwin at the Lake-there seems to be a bit of confusion between the 2! I didn't see Emily Llewellyn's round but it sounds like he wasn't an easy ride!


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## Kokopelli (24 April 2011)

I was watching today it was fab!
There was a horse and rider at the colt pond. The horse had a stumble in the water lost impulsion but carried on with the direct route pretty much from a trot. Such a genuine horse, does anyone know who this was because I missed the riders number?

I think she went on to fall off later on in the course though.


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## PorkChop (24 April 2011)

I was glued to the coverage all day 

Loved Opp Buzz 

There was some fantastic riding, some amazing recoveries, can't remember who it was but the horse that lost its footing in the colt pond and picked up to jump out was so genuine, and also loved the horse that jumped the small tree in colt pond as if it was meant to 

If I could scrap one fence on the course I have to say it would be the quarry complex near the end of the course, I especially hated the log at the bottom of the slope, thought the drops and hauling needed to get through even the direct route was unnecessary at that stage


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## rhino (24 April 2011)

Kokopelli said:



			I was watching today it was fab!
There was a horse and rider at the colt pond. The horse had a stumble in the water lost impulsion but carried on with the direct route pretty much from a trot. Such a genuine horse, does anyone know who this was because I missed the riders number?

I think she went on to fall off later on in the course though.
		
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Think it was the French rider Gwendolen Fer


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## only_me (24 April 2011)

K, I asked a question on the other thread after watching OT, do you think that because there are more "horse friendly" fences now (eg. waves at the lake) it can encourage lazy knees? It does make it slightly safer but is it a double edged sword?
Just a thought I had?


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## CalllyH (24 April 2011)

Thanks kerrilli, i really shouldn't laugh at oils misfortunes but one can't help but smirk a little. Hope the horses ok.

I'm surprised at cruise master though leaving a leg he's normally pretty ok isn't he?


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## NinjaPony (24 April 2011)

kerilli said:



			some great riding and some shocking riding imho. i thought EL was justified in giving that horse 3 smacks, he could have gone, he has oodles of scope, he's let her down at 4* water a few times before. It wasn't a perfect approach but other riders go away with far worse because their horses were honest and generous.
I hate the way Buck rides.
I thought Marina was the only one of the Germans who rode well, normally i'm a big fan of Ingrid but she was riding much too fast imho, I saw that fall coming about 10 fences before. Ostholt was horrible. I remember Marina the last time she rode at Badders, hope she goes v well tomorrow. Would love Toddy or Nicola and Buzz to win.
I felt so so sorry for Ruth, being held did not help that horse at all, and even though she was doing all she could, he looks the sort who gets suspicious if driven. He could have helped her out.
V sorry for Caroline Ryan-Bell too, was looking great till then.
Aoife Clark is seriously classy. 
Ditto some of the YRs.
Buzz was awesome. Interesting that her other horse jumped a bit like Buzz too though.
Toddy did a fabulous job. Fine to wake up a tired horse with a slap, and ride home with hands and heels.
Whoever it was who rode the final gallop stretch as if it was the Grand National finish, not good.
OT's horse is a horrible dangler. I saw that one coming a mile off too, poor Oli didn't deserve that, he was doing a great job out there.
I thought Cinders rode fantastically and that mare was utterly awesome.
Could go on and on. Some stunning horses that I really covet, but some not quite so appealing! Some great riding and some surprisingly bad riding.
I was pleased to hear Pippa and Ian saying about the coffin canter. Shocked me how some riders approached that fence. Oli was clever, obv didn't trust that horse to keep its knees up even at that reasonably early stage...  
Feel desperately sorry for Mandiba, esp if he ran back and fell off the bank because of the airjacket going off (as has been said on COTH). V lucky not to break his back, apparently has a broken rib, poor lad.

you can watch it online at FEI tv, btw.
		
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Agree with pretty much all of that


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## Puppy (24 April 2011)

kerilli said:



			Buzz was awesome. Interesting that her other horse jumped a bit like Buzz too though.
		
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I believe they're half brothers  

Such a shame about that bang to Bee Diplomatic.  A very quick reaction by Nicola though - great horse(wo)manship


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## TarrSteps (24 April 2011)

Lots of "dressage movers" and even top sj lines are famous for jumping with a low knee, even if they're tight below.  But often these horses are also very scopey so when they're not wrong/tired/inattentive they win and it's not considered a problem.  (And many horses jump safely their whole careers that way, it's just an "if and when" issue.) If anything I'd say fences now are less forgiving of that style, too, with more uprights, difficult distances, bending lines etc. which can catch out a horse that's not so snappy in front.


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## Chloe_GHE (24 April 2011)

I was a little disappointed that there weren't any big drop obsticles or steps complexes I really like that, fave fences were that bounce in the woods, and the step up with rail on top


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## kerilli (24 April 2011)

elliebean said:



			Agreed, but that was Emily Baldwin at the Lake-there seems to be a bit of confusion between the 2! I didn't see Emily Llewellyn's round but it sounds like he wasn't an easy ride!
		
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oh oops sorry, i get them confused. 
CalllyH, this is the same horse that dangled a knee so badly at Kentucky and nearly killed him. It did it 3 times today, he was lucky to get away with it at the Lake, due supreme stickability and a forgiving fence.

only_me, i'd say maybe at the lower levels, where roll tops and brush tops seem to be taking over, but not at higher levels. a lot of those horses today seriously impressed me with their lovely snappy knees, even when tiring, esp at the third log of the Quarry, and the first part of sunken road. snappy knees are life savers, esp if rider misses a bit.


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## teapot (24 April 2011)

Westwood Poser - really helped Polly out.

And the big Irish horse that fell in the water, had been going so well until then.


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## chestnut cob (24 April 2011)

I've loved watching the XC today 

Would anyone mind answering a question for a numpty though please...?!  I appreciate you would expect a horse to finish Badminton XC tired but there seemed to be quite a few who *appeared* to be absolutely knackered.  Was it particularly warm there today, is it lack of fitness, or is that extra bit of stamina what marks the top quality horses out from the others?  From my numpty perspective, the one that really seemed to stand out was (IIRC) Prada, who looked like she'd have gone around again.  What made that horse finish still so full of running yet others looked knackered half way around?

Sorry for the stupid questions!


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## Thistle (24 April 2011)

Andreas Dibowski, not Osholt was the awful rider of number 100. The one who looked very very tired and poss finished lame. 

Andreas Osholt retired (he wasn't great either)

Just checked this on results


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## Supertrooper (24 April 2011)

Chesnut cob - I would say lack of fitness!


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## Puppy (24 April 2011)

Supertrooper said:



			Chesnut cob - I would say lack of fitness!
		
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I would say the heat. If you look at coverage from last year, with some of the same horses, they finished much, much better. I don't know about where you guys are, but it shockingly hot here, and I understand it's pretty similar at Badders.


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## Jesstickle (24 April 2011)

Surely the heat? I can't believe that some of the guys with tired horses don't know how to get them fit? It is the hottest easter in 70 years or something after all.


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## Supertrooper (24 April 2011)

Puppy - actually that may be true, it hasn't been that warm where I am today so just assumed it's the same everywhere!!! ;-))


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## Kokopelli (24 April 2011)

It was very hot there and I don't think the horses are used to that heat yet.

There was also little breeze which made it seem warmer.


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## Puppy (24 April 2011)

Thistle said:



			Andreas Dibowski, not Osholt was the awful rider of number 100. The one who looked very very tired and poss finished lame. 

Andreas Osholt retired (he wasn't great either)

Just checked this on results
		
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I don't remember seeing Andreas Dibowski (must have been whilst I was on BBQ/pimms duty ) but I thought Andreas Osholt was a league below every other partnership out there today. I was most surprised to hear that his horse is owned by some sort of German equestrian federation as I would have thought that they'd have plenty of more skilled riders to place such a horse with.


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## chestnut cob (24 April 2011)

Supertrooper said:



			Chesnut cob - I would say lack of fitness!
		
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Thanks   The thread below is interesting, re. roads and tracks etc.

Puppy - temperature here is back down to around 14C during the day so I wasn't sure if it was still baking elsewhere.


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## Puppy (24 April 2011)

jesstickle said:



			Surely the heat? I can't believe that some of the guys with tired horses don't know how to get them fit? It is the hottest easter in 70 years or something after all.
		
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Yep! I believe London has been specified as the hottest place in Europe this week. I am timing when I take my dogs for a walk due to the temperatures we've been having.


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## Katie_B (24 April 2011)

kerilli said:



			some great riding and some shocking riding imho. i thought EL was justified in giving that horse 3 smacks, he could have gone, he has oodles of scope, he's let her down at 4* water a few times before. It wasn't a perfect approach but other riders go away with far worse because their horses were honest and generous.
I hate the way Buck rides.
I thought Marina was the only one of the Germans who rode well, normally i'm a big fan of Ingrid but she was riding much too fast imho, I saw that fall coming about 10 fences before. Ostholt was horrible. I remember Marina the last time she rode at Badders, hope she goes v well tomorrow. Would love Toddy or Nicola and Buzz to win.
I felt so so sorry for Ruth, being held did not help that horse at all, and even though she was doing all she could, he looks the sort who gets suspicious if driven. He could have helped her out.
V sorry for Caroline Ryan-Bell too, was looking great till then.
Aoife Clark is seriously classy. 
Ditto some of the YRs.
Buzz was awesome. Interesting that her other horse jumped a bit like Buzz too though.
Toddy did a fabulous job. Fine to wake up a tired horse with a slap, and ride home with hands and heels.
Whoever it was who rode the final gallop stretch as if it was the Grand National finish, not good.
OT's horse is a horrible dangler. I saw that one coming a mile off too, poor Oli didn't deserve that, he was doing a great job out there.
I thought Cinders rode fantastically and that mare was utterly awesome.
Could go on and on. Some stunning horses that I really covet, but some not quite so appealing! Some great riding and some surprisingly bad riding.
I was pleased to hear Pippa and Ian saying about the coffin canter. Shocked me how some riders approached that fence. Oli was clever, obv didn't trust that horse to keep its knees up even at that reasonably early stage...  
Feel desperately sorry for Mandiba, esp if he ran back and fell off the bank because of the airjacket going off (as has been said on COTH). V lucky not to break his back, apparently has a broken rib, poor lad.

you can watch it online at FEI tv, btw.
		
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I would agree with the majority of this, except I would be surprised if Mandiba spooked at the air jacket. There was a bit delay between the pop and him moving off. Infact, it looked like, and I think a few others agreed on the other thread, that she waved her reins in dissapointment and he spooked at that. Would be interesting to see a replay, although don't think i could see him hit the deck again


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## Puppy (24 April 2011)

chestnut cob said:



			Thanks   The thread below is interesting, re. roads and tracks etc.

Puppy - temperature here is back down to around 14C during the day so I wasn't sure if it was still baking elsewhere.
		
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Blimey! We've been v nearly twice that!!


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## kirstyhen (24 April 2011)

I rode my mare at half 6, so technically it should have been cooler. 20 minutes schooling and she was very sweaty, it's not even that hot here!

I think it's the humidity that's been the real killer! That was what knackered them at Bejing, whereas in the dry heat of Athens, they finished much better.


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## chestnut cob (24 April 2011)

Puppy said:



			Blimey! We've been v nearly twice that!! 

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I think the maximum here has been about 26C and yesterday was warm until about 4pm, when it suddenly clouded over and it hasn't been anything like as warm since.  Today I actually had to put a coat on to hack at 9am!


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## TGM (24 April 2011)

_Before I comment I would just like to add a disclaimer that I am just a feeble PC mum who can just about manage 2'3" these days, and even when I was younger only negotiated 3'6" RC courses.  But I do believe discussing performances in these top competitions is useful to all those involved in riding and managing horses and riders at the lower levels, even if I could not achieve a fraction of what any of the Badminton riders achieve._

I thought Ruth Edge rode really well, but it did seem her horse was quite sticky and lacking a little confidence all the way round, so it was not surprising that, at such a demanding level, it eventually went wrong.

Mark Todd nursed his horse over the final fences well, I didn't feel his riding was abusive at all, but just showed him carefully encouraging his horse home.  I do wonder whether the horse will show sound tomorrow though, after scraping so badly over the log in the Quarry.

Oliver Townsend's horse was jumping dodgily throughout the course, so although the rider did his best, wasn't really surprising that his luck gave out eventually.

Opposition Buzz was just a delight to watch - you just had every confidence he was going to clear short of a major disaster.

I agree with others that one of the Andreas's rode very roughly - I'm not saying I could do any better, but wouldn't want to hold him up as an example to young aspiring riders.


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## Vizslak (24 April 2011)

It has been alot cooler today than the rest of the week (or the sun has been less fierce) but agree with K its certainly still very humid with not alot of air. The only horse I saw look ridiculously tired was Splash (ACM) and he didnt even finish. I seriously hope I never have to watch Oli ride that horse round another 4*, its truely scary to watch, I thought he rode very very well though. There were plenty came in quite fresh. Toddys horse looked v tired but he was pushing for that top placing, you would expect that when the horse is asked to give that winning extra bit for it not to have much running left in the tank, it actually finished looking better than I thought it would after it flagged earlier on and Toddy had to wake him up. Marina rode a fabulous round and her horse is wonderful, that was a highlight round for me. Obviously Opposition Buzz was wonderful too. Those 2 rounds are the ones that stick in my mind as pure class.


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## Jesstickle (24 April 2011)

Puppy said:



			Yep! I believe London has been specified as the hottest place in Europe this week. I am timing when I take my dogs for a walk due to the temperatures we've been having.
		
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I've personally been loving it but brown horse has turned into a lazy slob. Which I think says everything about what heat does to horses given that I only wanted to ride for half an hour and after 20 mins he had completely died under me (obviously he isn't fit or anything but he can usually manage 40 mins without struggling too much!) Or rather, about what unexpected, sudden onset heat does to horses.


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## TarrSteps (24 April 2011)

Re the heat, it isn't just how it's been today, but over the last week and when the horses have been doing their last works.  There are still horses walking around with winter coats (Badminton horses clipped, obviously, but they're still on the same "clock" as their furrier brethren) which shows how un-acclimatised they are.


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## CalllyH (24 April 2011)

Thanks k, I think oli needs to look for some new horses if thats the case.


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## kit279 (24 April 2011)

Say, Tarrsteps, while you're in here - I thought Canada had some extremely nice horses out and about today.  A couple of unlucky ones but by and large I thought the horses looked rather class and some of the riders were very stylish 

ETS:-  I nearly put North America instead of Canada just there


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## thoroughlybred1 (24 April 2011)

Katie_B said:



			I would agree with the majority of this, except I would be surprised if Mandiba spooked at the air jacket. There was a bit delay between the pop and him moving off. Infact, it looked like, and I think a few others agreed on the other thread, that she waved her reins in dissapointment and he spooked at that. Would be interesting to see a replay, although don't think i could see him hit the deck again 

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That was my thought when i watched it too. There was definately a moment of calm in the horse before Karen chucked her reins (in what seemed to be fustration) before he went over the edge. And if it was a factor noone will be blaming themselves more than Karen herself. Listening to some of the commentary on the riders abilities I'm surprised anyone would WANT to put themselves up for such public and open critisism - I admit its been a long time since i have watched any eventing footage, but with the fantastic coverage from every angle that can now be seen it takes some guts just to put yourself in such a spotlight! I even read somewhere about Mary Kings VPL for gods sake!


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## OneInAMillion (24 April 2011)

Andreas Ostholt rode pretty badly I thought.
Ingrid Klimke was scary to watch, surely after the slips the horse had you would slow up.
Emily Llewellyn and P were just arguing with each other, I couldn't see any abuse.
Westwood Poser was brilliant and reacted like a pony when Polly saw a long one, likewise Polly reacted very quickly to grab the broken martingale strap, well done to her 
Didn't see Oli as I recorded it and it chopped the end off!
Thought Ben Hobday asked quite alot of a very tired horse to do the long route at the quarry. However he does explain his decisions - http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/blogs/7617/307116.html
Really impressed with Aoife Clarke.
Also impressed with Lauren Shannon.
Thought Nicola Wilson was fab how she was so quick to pick up on BD not being right.
I think that Karen O'Connor should have pulled M up before the bank however in her decision to carry on I think she should have offered M a bit more help.
Really liked the big irish horse that fell in the water, such a shame.
Lucinda Fredericks was classy. A very classy mare too, who would have skipped around the course again!
Sam Griffiths had a lovely round.
I really like Drivetime but I wonder if Emily knows he has the problem then she should have given him a good smack on the way in.
Rosie Thomas and Barry's Best looked to have great fun but didn't seem as smooth and together as normal.

Not sure I liked the sunken road complex, there were a lot of uncomfortable jumps, and also the quarry seemed to take alot out of the horses.


I know it is easy to say this from an armchair but I think some riding set a veyr poor example for those who watch pro's to learn from them.

ETA. Can not for the life of me understand why the rider Jrina (red P2 jacket -don't know her surname) after 3 refusals then carried onto to jump into the water. She must know the rules?


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## TarrSteps (24 April 2011)

Thanks, Kit. (Not that it's anything to do with me but I'll accept for lack of another Canadian on hand.)   I thought they looked great.  Hawley came before with her last big horse but the other two were first timers and a it's a LONG way to come.  And while those girls have been to some very major events, riders just do not get the same sort of Jr/YR (no Ponies at all) mileage in North America (let alone Canada, which doesn't even have a 3* anymore and barely has any CICs) that the younger UK riders have.

David has done so much for the Team and the riders have really signed on.  Canada is just never going to have the depth of horses and riders, or the money to spend but it's great to see them doing the very best with what they've got.

I did have a hissy fit on the Canadian equivalent of HHO because there was NOTHING on Badminton at all, not one thread, even with Selena being 12th overnight.


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## teapot (24 April 2011)

Rosie's already commented that Barry's Best doesn't like firmer ground so wasn't enjoying himself as much this year.


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## Puppy (24 April 2011)

TarrSteps said:



			Re the heat, it isn't just how it's been today, but over the last week and when the horses have been doing their last works.  There are still horses walking around with winter coats (Badminton horses clipped, obviously, but they're still on the same "clock" as their furrier brethren) which shows how un-acclimatised they are.
		
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I'm interested to hear you say that, as I speculated something similar earlier (about it being so hot so early in the year, and shocking the horses' systems somewhat) but wasn't sure how valid it may be.


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## gillianfleming (24 April 2011)

Was gutted not to see more of Lenamore's round.

Also liked Caroline Powells round on Boston Two Tip, it was his first 4 star comp and thought he looked fantastic when he finished.


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## CalllyH (24 April 2011)

I think jrina knows the rules but just wanted to get the horse over it and not let him get away with it. She waved as if to say I know and sorry afterwards.


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## kirstyhen (24 April 2011)

CalllyH said:



			I think jrina knows the rules but just wanted to get the horse over it and not let him get away with it. She waved as if to say I know and sorry afterwards.
		
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I think she'd lost track of how many stops she'd had, jumped it and then put her hand up to retire.


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## TarrSteps (24 April 2011)

CalllyH said:



			I think jrina knows the rules but just wanted to get the horse over it and not let him get away with it. She waved as if to say I know and sorry afterwards.
		
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I'm sure she knows the rules but surely that makes it worse?  They'll have to come down pretty hard on her because the rule is there for a good reason and they'll need to make sure no one else thinks it's worth trying in the future.

I can see how very frustrating it would be, though.


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## Puppy (24 April 2011)

OneInAMillion said:



			Rosie Thomas and Barry's Best looked to have great fun but didn't seem as smooth and together as normal.
		
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I *think* Rosie had said (quoted by the commentary team) that it wasn't his type of going. Hence why they did so awesomely on what was dreadful conditions for many others at Burghley a few years ago  I do love how much Rosie grins as they go round  What a super partnership. 





			ETA. Can not for the life of me understand why the rider Jrina (red P2 jacket -don't know her surname) after 3 refusals then carried onto to jump into the water. She must know the rules?
		
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That was rather shocking...


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## domane (24 April 2011)

I know Badminton is known for being one of the toughest tests but I thought it was particularly bad for falls and accidents this year


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## OneInAMillion (24 April 2011)

Puppy said:



			I *think* Rosie had said (quoted by the commentary team) that it wasn't his type of going. Hence why they did so awesomely on what was dreadful conditions for many others at Burghley a few years ago  I do love how much Rosie grins as they go round  What a super partnership.
		
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they are so lovely to watch, it makes you smile to watch


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## Vizslak (24 April 2011)

domane said:



			I know Badminton is known for being one of the toughest tests but I thought it was particularly bad for falls and accidents this year 

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really? I didnt think it was as bad this year as has been in previous years! I have my head in the clouds though so maybe I'm wrong!


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## OneInAMillion (24 April 2011)

teapot said:



			Rosie's already commented that Barry's Best doesn't like firmer ground so wasn't enjoying himself as much this year.
		
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thanks


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## meardsall_millie (24 April 2011)

domane said:



			I know Badminton is known for being one of the toughest tests but I thought it was particularly bad for falls and accidents this year 

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Really?  I've been known to watch from behind a cushion in the past but thought that this year, with one or two exceptions, was excellent.


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## CalllyH (24 April 2011)

kirstyhen said:



			I think she'd lost track of how many stops she'd had, jumped it and then put her hand up to retire.
		
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That would make sense too


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## kirstyhen (24 April 2011)

I think they were just super careful with the falls they had, hence all the holds on course. Bit like the GN, they didn't just drag people out the way and then deal with them, so we were far more aware of the problems.
I should image a lot of people were severely winded with the ground that bit firmer and the high number of P2 jackets (not meant in a bad way, just that they can't help but knock the wind out of you!)


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## meardsall_millie (24 April 2011)

kirstyhen said:



			I think she'd lost track of how many stops she'd had, jumped it and then put her hand up to retire.
		
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Sorry K - counting up to 3, even whilst riding at Badders, is really not that difficult


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## teapot (24 April 2011)

And unless you know what it's like to be winded (horrible horrible experience) you could assume it's a quick painless thing that doesn't require that much attention. In reality, you can't do anything, let alone being moved off course.


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## Puppy (24 April 2011)

domane said:



			I know Badminton is known for being one of the toughest tests but I thought it was particularly bad for falls and accidents this year 

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Really?! I didn't think so. Although the some of the falls did lead to long holds on course that I think made it seem worse.


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## Puppy (24 April 2011)

meardsall_millie said:



			Sorry K - counting up to 3, even whilst riding at Badders, is really not that difficult  

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I would say especially when you've had two at the same fence. You know then full well that it's one more and you're out.


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## kirstyhen (24 April 2011)

teapot said:



			And unless you know what it's like to be winded (horrible horrible experience) you could assume it's a quick painless thing that doesn't require that much attention. In reality, you can't do anything, let alone being moved off course.
		
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Agreed! A horse kicked me in the sternum once and I thought I was dying!!


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## kirstyhen (24 April 2011)

meardsall_millie said:



			Sorry K - counting up to 3, even whilst riding at Badders, is really not that difficult  

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I'm just a soft get that likes to give people the benefit of the doubt


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## kerilli (24 April 2011)

kirstyhen said:



			I think they were just super careful with the falls they had, hence all the holds on course. Bit like the GN, they didn't just drag people out the way and then deal with them, so we were far more aware of the problems.
I should image a lot of people were severely winded with the ground that bit firmer and the high number of P2 jackets (not meant in a bad way, just that they can't help but knock the wind out of you!)
		
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no, when there were long holds today, they were necessary long holds from what i've been told. most riders will get out of the way asap if they feel up to it. a friend got badly winded at a 4* and said later that if the fence judges (elderly) had just helped her up she'd have moved immediately, but they didn't.


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## Woodykat (24 April 2011)

Heard Mark Todd say in an interview earlier that he nursed his horse home over the last few rather than retire as whilst the horse was still locking on to the fences, and had his ears pricked, he was happy to continue.

Mary King had the biggest grin on her face as she went around, was lovely to see!


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## LEC (24 April 2011)

I was in the rather privileged position of being paid to watch EVERYBODY!

I saw Elizabeth Powers fall and got it rewound twice - horse left a leg badly and she got kicked in the head at hollow. It was a rotational and more shocking in that the frangible AGAIN did not break. Its the whole leaving one leg that seems not to exert enough force. 

I did not watch Camilla Spiers at the lake but guessing she went for a gungho one at the shogun pickups. 

Emily Baldwin did the right thing - that horse is an absolute heartbreaker. Why it will be fine over 3* water and not 4* is ridiculous. I felt she could have been slightly better powered on the turn but people did far worse and their horses helped them out. 

We thought Partly Picked had been killed at first as just lay there for a while but thank goodness got up.

Also my final comment is that Mike Tucker makes a very hard job seem easy. I was in the behind the scenes and it seriously takes some professionalism to deal with various people shouting in your ear, updating you and not truly knowing what you will be looking at next and to be able to talk about it smoothly. 

Person I felt most sorry for was Gemma Tattersall who rode a superb round and was just really unlucky.


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## Toffee44 (24 April 2011)

Had a great day just got home. Ditto what people have said about lucinda saw her at the owl hole and then saw her coming to the last she looked amazing.


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## racingdemon (24 April 2011)

really enjoyed watching it today and watched almost all of it

my thoughts....
IK....way too fast, she nearly up ended early on, & to approach the huntsmans close on that fast long stride seemed to ask for trouble
OT/ACM.... just doesn't look like a 4* horse, legs all over the show, 
Lovely lovely round from NW/Opp Buzz.... gosh he is a legend, poss my fave (of what i saw)
also what sort of built-in timer must Andrew Nicholson have, great work
MT... leading after XC.... he did his 1st badders before i was born & the guy is still one of the best! 
well sat WFP at the step/log
missed RE/TT, & others around that time
Laura Collet looked very relaxed for a 1st badders,
Fab riding from Aoife Clark, real class act
Also mega pleased to see Michael Owen go round really well, 

looking forward to the SJ tomorrow, have no idea how some of the top ones SJ, so will be interesting

thought pippa's "i'm not 110% committed so i've withdrawn" comment was a bit odd, fair enough she was way off the pace dressage wise, but thought she maybe could have worded it better


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## kickonchaps (24 April 2011)

LEC said:



			I felt she could have been slightly better powered on the turn but people did far worse and their horses helped them out.
		
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Always the way isn't it  I don't think there's a single competitive rider out there who hasn't at some point or other rued the fact that other people always seem to get away with it!!


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## kerilli (24 April 2011)

LEC said:



			I was in the rather privileged position of being paid to watch EVERYBODY!

I saw Elizabeth Powers fall and got it rewound twice - horse left a leg badly and she got kicked in the head at hollow. It was a rotational and more shocking in that the frangible AGAIN did not break. Its the whole leaving one leg that seems not to exert enough force. 

I did not watch Camilla Spiers at the lake but guessing she went for a gungho one at the shogun pickups. 

Emily Baldwin did the right thing - that horse is an absolute heartbreaker. Why it will be fine over 3* water and not 4* is ridiculous. I felt she could have been slightly better powered on the turn but people did far worse and their horses helped them out. 

We thought Partly Picked had been killed at first as just lay there for a while but thank goodness got up.

Also my final comment is that Mike Tucker makes a very hard job seem easy. I was in the behind the scenes and it seriously takes some professionalism to deal with various people shouting in your ear, updating you and not truly knowing what you will be looking at next and to be able to talk about it smoothly. 

Person I felt most sorry for was Gemma Tattersall who rode a superb round and was just really unlucky.
		
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the frangibles not failing when they should is a big worry. 
poor Liz, hope she makes a full recovery very soon.
i haven't seen it but i heard from an eyewitness that Camilla Spiers was trying to anchor the horse, who wasn't having any of it...
Agree about Emily Baldwin. he could have helped her out.
sounds as if PP was either winded or just v tired. 
Mike Tucker drives me crackers though, I wish they'd get someone who didn't make so many Colemanballs-style mistakes. (Private Eye reference, guys.)
Agree about Gemma T, but that mare looked arrogant and as if it wasn't really listening, whereas for instance Calma Schelly was obviously so responsive and listening.


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## Puppy (24 April 2011)

Did anyone else think that wrt to the water, where there were so many refusals, that yes the turn in was sharp & challenging but it also seemed that a lot of the horses were maybe dazzled by the sun off the water?! A few, I thought, looked quite 'blinded' there.


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## LEC (24 April 2011)

Mike Tucker used to drive me crazy but I promise you its a very very tough job! He gets a lot of misinformation and then has to unravel it. They will say going to Oliver Townend on camera 6 and then use a shot of someone completely different. They have information coming in from around the course, the start box and also from the director who is choosing all the shots from 26 cameras around the course!


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## Puppy (24 April 2011)

Oh yes, I do enjoy having Tina doing the commentary


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## oldvic (24 April 2011)

Agree Kerilli - they couldn't move any injured riders before they did and Partly Pickled got up as soon as he got some wind into himself so the holds were through necessity. When you fall on firm ground it is more likely that you will hurt yourself which is why it seemed worse this year.
There was some excellent riding as well as some that could be improved. It is unusual to see Toddy on a tired horse but he kept him balanced and gave him every chance. The horse pricked his ears to each fence so was entitled to complete and towed his handler back to the stables once he'd recovered. It is also unusual to see William having to work so hard and have both horses outside the time. While the horses didn't look entirely convincing, William made it as easy as possible for them. Andrew had 2 clear inside the time  - no mean achievement today - and after his 1st round people could have been forgiven for thinking that there would be a lot clear inside the time. Nereo jumped equally well. O.Buzz was as unconventional as ever but Nicola rides him so well and Laura Collett, Lauren Shannon and Aoife Clarke looked riders with a good future. Marina Kohncke rode well and Kai Ruder did well on a horse that didn't help him much but the other Germans looked a bit scary. 
Others had lovely rides from genuine, good jumping horses and some have a lot to thank their horses for!


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## Santa_Claus (24 April 2011)

To say again camilla was too fast which was undoubtably the reason for the fall BUT and it's a big but camilla was trying to slow up big style and horse was saying no. Horse is only 15h1 if I'm right so will have to move on more than most between fences to make or get close to the time and on this occasion when asked to come back horse said no. Queue hitting it in front as jumped flat and too close and corkscrewed over it semi rotational styley landing together on the otherside.


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## BBP (24 April 2011)

Have to say I don't think the weather can be blamed for today, it was about perfect, I was too cold in short sleeves and there was a nice breeze blowing.  Although the previous weeks weather may have left some horses a little dehydrated.  Perhaps it was more down to the event coming slightly early in the calendar and some riders being caught out fitness wise.

Agree that Oli's horse seems to leave a leg every time I see him.

Gorgeous rounds by Zeus (I want him!) and the Calma Schely, as well as Lucinda's horse.  And I thought Mark rode beautifully, perhaps as the horse was a bit green he became mentally tired as well as physically.

I didn't enjoy Bruce Davidsons round, or Andreas.

Hopefully I will get an update on Camilla soon, my physio treats Jiff and thinks the world of him, I got there in time to see her on the floor (I am a bad influence, everyone I have connections to seems to fall off!).  Poor little Jiff, needs to learn to listen!

In all I thought it rode very very well, with an odd spate of falls at the start of the last third of horses, no idea why.


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## JANANI (25 April 2011)

I recorded the X country earlier and have only just finished due to issues in taping I have only got to see to the middle of Polly's round.

I loved Aoife Clarke - she was just fabulous in her first round as my recording stopped I didn't get to see her second round.
I thought Joseph Murphy looked very classy and I wished the BBC showed more of his round.
And as always I loved Andrew Nicholson as he makes it look so easy. 

Ingrid was just going too fast into the jumps and was a tad scary to watch.
Andreas Oshalt was just awful. He is Frank's brother according to the commentry which is hard to believe given that Frank is such a classy rider. He was so unbalanced and unfit and looked so out of place. 
Buck Davidson (loved his daddy during the commentry) just looked so unbalanced and untidy. 

I thought the commentry was the very good and although Mike Tucker annoys me I know he hasn't an easy job. Ian Stark was great as usual and I really enjoyed the differnt riders giving their commentry. Well done to the BBC


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## brighthair (25 April 2011)

My stupid recorder cut it off at Polly Stockton? So I missed Oppostion Buzz :-(
don't know why it did that. Hopefully will show it on the highlights
I put it on in the staffroom at work, and had the usual rolling of eyes, and then people started watching. It was fab actually, and everyone got really into it, I had constant updates when I was out of the room of "Person on brown horse fell at a brown jump" 
and I went back an hour later and it was still on the tv which was the ultimate test!


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## brighthair (25 April 2011)

JANANI said:



			I recorded the X country earlier and have only just finished due to issues in taping I have only got to see to the middle of Polly's round.

I
		
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ah.... did you record on a Freeview box? Just that mine cut it off in the exact same place


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## JANANI (25 April 2011)

Yes. I really wanted to see opposition Buzz as I love watching him. Hopefully will see him in the highlights.


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## MurphysMinder (25 April 2011)

I recorded it through freeview but was watching it also.  it did stop at 5pm which was the scheduled time for Badminton to end, I then had a real battle to get it to continue recording, kept telling me I had recorded that programme!  I think it was around the time of Opposition Buzz's round so that could have been why some of you had problems.


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## Weezy (25 April 2011)

OneInAMillion said:



			Andreas Ostholt rode pretty badly I thought.
Ingrid Klimke was scary to watch, surely after the slips the horse had you would slow up.
Emily Llewellyn and P were just arguing with each other, I couldn't see any abuse.
Westwood Poser was brilliant and reacted like a pony when Polly saw a long one, likewise Polly reacted very quickly to grab the broken martingale strap, well done to her 
Thought Ben Hobday asked quite alot of a very tired horse to do the long route at the quarry. However he does explain his decisions - http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/blogs/7617/307116.html
Really impressed with Aoife Clarke.
Also impressed with Lauren Shannon.
Thought Nicola Wilson was fab how she was so quick to pick up on BD not being right.
I think that Karen O'Connor should have pulled M up before the bank however in her decision to carry on I think she should have offered M a bit more help.
Really liked the big irish horse that fell in the water, such a shame.
Lucinda Fredericks was classy. A very classy mare too, who would have skipped around the course again!
Sam Griffiths had a lovely round.
I really like Drivetime but I wonder if Emily knows he has the problem then she should have given him a good smack on the way in.
Rosie Thomas and Barry's Best looked to have great fun but didn't seem as smooth and together as normal.
		
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Agree with the above   Must say myself how much I loved Lauren Shannon's riding - so quiet and poised, she put some riders twice her age to shame!

I felt really sorry for Oli, never thought I would say that, but he was riding ACM so well and I admit to willing him to pick his bloody legs up.  TBH I think the horse should take a step back now, it is a death waiting to happen...yes, that is strong, but look at what has happened thus far, it is scary and sad as the horse CAN do it, but not at the expense of one day poss landing on Oli and killing him this time...

I enjoyed the French girl, her recovery at the Colt Pond was brilliant.  Very sorry to see her face plant at the quarry but she did come down way too fast.

Buzz was just incredible but I cannot help but want Toddy to win....could they be joint winners please


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## MrsMozart (25 April 2011)

My first trip to Badminton yesterday, so very limited knowledge. It got up to 19 degrees according to the car's readout. We alternated between just a tee-shirt and adding a fleece/shirt. There was a good, albeit gentle, breeze most of the time. The temperature didn't pick up 'till midday when the hazy cloud covering started to shift.

Although it's been a long time since I was at a course of that level, and when I was it was in America, so different conditions weather wise, etc., but (she says, finally getting to the point), I was very surprised by the number of horses that looked kn*ckered at the halfway stage. They were catching fences and giving heart in the mouth moments, especially at the water jump.

The hold-ups were long-ish, but necessary at the time. Not good for the horses held on the course, but it's one of the variables of the sport sadly.


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## sleepingdragon10 (25 April 2011)

JANANI said:



			Buck Davidson (loved his daddy during the commentry) just looked so unbalanced and untidy.
		
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The man does not have the class/horsemanship that his father had. He just looks awful, and seems to ride rather 'heavily', for want of a better word.


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## MagicMelon (25 April 2011)

kit279 said:



			Also there are a fair few threads in other parts of the forum about 'whip abuse'.  I'm surprised by this as most of the riders I saw were trying to encourage their horses to jump better and help them out rather than punish them.  I didn't see anyone hit their horse in a temper and I wouldn't have called it abuse? Am I the only person who thinks that? 

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I didnt see any temper smacking as such - but I didn't like it when several riders smacked their horses 3 or 4 times in a row whilst galloping, I assume to wake them up and really go for the time but I find that unecessary.

Andreas Ostholt - didnt like his riding at all.  
Oliver T - Sorry, but I hate his riding style.  I always think a fall is imminent as he seems so keen to go for a long one all the time.  
Buck Davidson - Agree with the above, he looked terribly heavy and all over the place.

The horse which stood out to me was a chestnut with girl rider (cant remember names!) - the horse was so pingy and fun looking to ride, then it face planted in the water   Such a shame as what a happy little horse!


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## Honey08 (25 April 2011)

Weezy said:



			Agree with the above  
I felt really sorry for Oli, never thought I would say that, but he was riding ACM so well and I admit to willing him to pick his bloody legs up.  TBH I think the horse should take a step back now, it is a death waiting to happen...yes, that is strong, but look at what has happened thus far, it is scary and sad as the horse CAN do it, but not at the expense of one day poss landing on Oli and killing him this time...

I
Buzz was just incredible but I cannot help but want Toddy to win....could they be joint winners please 

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I agree with this.  Apart from not wanting Toddy to win - only because he has won it so so many times it gets boring!  

Re OT. I wouldn't get on that horse again at that level (not that I would do that level anyway!) Isn't Flint Curtis sound again now and being brought back into work again?  I admire OT loads, but think that he operates on a "drive on" method, which may not be the best when something goes wrong, or a horse leaves a leg??

Lucinda's mare, Prada, looked a real cross country monster.  I watched her in the warm up and wondered how she had ever got a dressage test out of it!  She looked like one of those mares that would rather die than slow down.

As for the weather, yes it was warm, but not overly.  I'm a northerner and actually had to put a coat on  now and again!  I think the only time the sun would really matter would be for those that got held on the course for the time that it took for the air ambulance to land etc - other than that I didn't think that the holds were too long.

I haven't been to Badminton for five years, but go to Burghley every year, and didn't find this course as shockingly big as I usually do.  The ground at Badminton is so flat and smooth compared to the up and down of Burghley that I thought it would have few problems.  I guess that that made it a fast course, and caused the problems perhaps.

Anyway, only my musings!

Worst thing about Badminton this year was the queue to get out!  Took ages.


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## Amymay (25 April 2011)

Interesting comments about unfit horses and struggling horses. Why didn't the stewards stop them?


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## Mrs B (25 April 2011)

I think what stands out for me about Mr Todd is watching the way he 'explained' to his young horse what was required of him all the way round. Such a lightness of touch given back after each correction and how he thinks and acts so fast, I do not know!

Particularly watching him through Huntsman's Close - those fences must come up so fast, especially that swing right to the bounce, but you could watch MT showing him exactly what he needed to do and helping him achieve it every stride of the way.

What a rider.


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## kickonchaps (25 April 2011)

Toddy was fantastic, WFP was fantastic, Nicola Wilson was my favourite but I'm a tiny bit biased because I have a Java Tiger baby 

What are people's thoughts on the lake? It seemed (dare I say it...) easier this year, more technical but not as terrifying! I still think out of all the lake complexes the one I'd least like to have jumped is the one a few years ago with a double bounce of logs  I remember if people missed their line and drifted left there wasn't a bounce and there wasn't a stride either so they were screwed! 

The Hexagon Hedge rode a lot better this year than last, I think everyone had figured it out! And I hope the corners get taken out, or at least adjusted, seems like most riders voted with (all four of) their feet and said not worth the risk!


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## Luci07 (25 April 2011)

I was lucky enough to be there, which also means there is an awful lot I didn't see, and thanks to being unbelievalbe blonde, managed to exit the house (at 6.30 in the morning) having walked past the large post it saying SET SKY + as I left. I will have to wait till next week to catch in on H&C now!

I saw Ingrids horse slip at the corrall - literally sit on its backside, she stuck her leg on and the horse came up and bounced out. I saw a fair few go through the water and most needed pretty positive riding to get through the short combination. I felt very sorry for the rider on the Good Witch  - horse seemed suprised by the first jump and then said a flat no on the 2nd attempt. Gutting for the rider.

I did however, see an awful lot of extremely tired horses. I also saw OT going upto the quarry and his horse was knackered. Blowing heavily and struggling so I am not altogether convinced that it was all to do with the horse being a poor jumper..

I am not a 4* rider, neither will I ever get anywhere near there but even with my basic eventing experience, I wonder why some horses struggled so very badly when others (and btw - not many of you have mentioned Mary Kings round - that horse finished just full of running) seemed to almost cruise round. The only time I have seen horses struggle that badly fitness wise at Badminton was some years ago when it was just pouring and the ground became very sticky.  I am looking forward to reading what Mark Phillips will say about this!  Day was odd temperature wise as I kept alternating between a thin fleece and a vest but have been on the net hunting for riders thoughts on the general fitness level of the competitors..


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## WoopsiiD (25 April 2011)

Luci07 said:



			I did however, see an awful lot of extremely tired horses. I also saw OT going upto the quarry and his horse was knackered. Blowing heavily and struggling so I am not altogether convinced that it was all to do with the horse being a poor jumper..
		
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That's my opinion too and I was at the quarry and saw the fall and OT went down in my estimations a bit yesterday.
We watched him coming towards the quarry on the big screen and quite a few of the crowd were of the same opinion that the fall was coming.


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## Replay (25 April 2011)

I think horses were finishing so tired due to a combination of the heat and a slightly unusual layout of the course.  There seemed to be more requirement than usual to pull horses out of their rhythm to negotiate groups of fences. Tight groups of fences - some of which were off the natural line of the course - rather than combinations that can be negotiated in a flowing rhythm with just slight setting up  This is more tiring for the horses and not something that they are used to on the longer distance of a long 3 day course.


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## Vixen Van Debz (25 April 2011)

Sorry if I sound dim, but how on earth did all the disciplines of equestrianism compete in the summer heat of Kentucky if a nice, summery day in England played such a big factor in fitness? When I train to run, I prepare myself for worse than my course - so I run for longer, I run on bigger gradients, I run in a mix of weather... I fail to see how competitive, top-end riders wouldn't be doing the same with their horses, so that they're fit for more than the minimum required? The fact that Tina Cook was surprised and disappointed at fitness and she was there admist the weather conditions is worth noting.

Cinders almost preaches on the value of uphill gallops, and it showed. Prada looked the class of the field in terms of fitness. Buzz didn't look any the worse off for jumping a long XC course either!

Watching Olly was horrible: it's that awful accident waiting to happen feeling, and we've already seen it before at Lexington. I had it with Ingrid too. Yes, the commentators can call it 'bold' and 'fun to watch' if they like, but it doesn't stop making me find that speed uncomfortable to watch. She showed us exactly why at that gate into the close.

The hold-ups were all justified, and it was great to see the horses being drenched and kept cool while waiting. Lots of other sports in the world would be complaining about it. Can you imagine a marathon runner getting beat by a competitor who got a 30min break and a cool bath and not complaining? I don't think so. I think it speaks volumes about the horses' welfare coming first.

I fear all hell breaking loose, but wasn't there lots of galloping on a similarly hot day over huge fences going on a few weeks ago, and all lots of people could do was say it was inhumane and start petitions? Food for thought...


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## TarrSteps (25 April 2011)

Vixen Van Debz said:



			Sorry if I sound dim, but how on earth did all the disciplines of equestrianism compete in the summer heat of Kentucky if a nice, summery day in England played such a big factor in fitness? When I train to run, I prepare myself for worse than my course - so I run for longer, I run on bigger gradients, I run in a mix of weather... I fail to see how competitive, top-end riders wouldn't be doing the same with their horses, so that they're fit for more than the minimum required? The fact that Tina Cook was surprised and disappointed at fitness and she was there admist the weather conditions is worth noting.
		
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Bizarrely, Canada is the "horse cooling" research centre because its "horsey" areas can have a 60C difference between winter and summer.  A lot of the work has been done on practical cooling (misting fans, cooling regimes etc) but with horses a big part of the equation is how you acclimatise them to extreme (even if that's relative) temperatures.  (Horses do cold very well, heat not so much.)  

Horses have a very "set" natural rhythm, depending on not only temperature but daylight hours, which regulates coat growth, metabolism etc.  In the natural run of thing, "native" horses acclimatise as the weather changes but this take time and a sudden change of weather takes the hardest toll.  This can also be cumulative - when horses are acclimatising ideally you want to do less/maintain their work level initially and build up to the ultimate effort.  

I don't know if the recent weather had any effect on how the horses coped at Badminton but a sudden, unexpected temperature spike like we've had would have left people with little time to adjust their programs in the way they would have had they been travelling to somewhere much warmer.  (Before Hong Kong some teams galloped horses in "sweat suits" to approximate working in hotter, more humid circumstances, or moved them to hotter climes far ahead of the competition date.)

As far as getting horses "over fit", that can be tricky.  4* is getting towards the ultimate question for most horses and at that level, soundness has to be a constant concern.  There's no sense having a fit horse that's not sound enough to play.  Yes, human athletes have similar concerns but they don't have to deal with the welfare aspect and they don't have a vet inspection before they compete!  I'm pretty sure if you excluded every human athlete with, say, shin splints, it would add up.

Again, not that I'm saying this WAS a factor, just that the problems of getting horses fit for the unexpected is very tricky.  

And some horses just cope better.  There are "radiator" horses and "boiler" horses.  If you look at Endurance horses they are all "radiators" - hot weather is not a huge factor for most of them.  Dressage horses and show jumpers are generally "boilers" so heat is more a concern but they don't have the sustained effort issue.  Event horses are neither betwixt or between - by definition they have to be "all rounders" and can't - if they're winners - have the same extreme body types.  It's no fluke that many of the horses that eat up the xc don't necessarily do the best tests.


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## suzysparkle (25 April 2011)

The comment about Canada having a 60C temperature difference between Winter and Summer. I was just thinking, in November/Deecember I saw it drop to -22.5C here and so far this year I've seen it up to 23C. That's 45.5C of a variation in 6 months. I think you have made a really good point there. It has been much more extreme the last few months. We are pretty used to it up here but areas of the UK that don't normally get much snow got a lot this winter. 

I know with our Huskies there's a huge difference in performance depending on temperature. Obviously they prefer the cold but when it gets really cold the difference is amazing. When you see them finish a 20 mile sprint in Alaska they barely need water afterwards (they 'dip' for snow!). I know dogs aren't the same in the way they regulate temperature but we do vary distance depending on temperature. I've had one overheat before and it was awful. No reason for it other than he got worked up beforehand - it was pretty cold and he was easily fit enough. So, maybe the ones that tire more easily get themselves more stressed beforehand? Another possible thought especially at the big events when the atmosphere is buzzing.  

Anyway, I really enjoyed the coverage. Thanks to BBC for all of it, and I see H&C have plenty re-runs coming. There was a few not so good runs to watch and few brilliant ones. I loved watching Buzz and Lucinda's Mare - they were my favourites.


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## jenbleep (25 April 2011)

I've just got back!! Please bear in mind that I'm tired and on a berry with tiny keys  

Lucinda and Prada-perfect combination, such a smart little horse and full of running after 4 miles round Badminton. One to watch I think. 

Saw Opposition Buzz through the huntsmans close and really pinged through the bounce-really helped out Nicola there which made me smile  Great horse

Fell in love with Flora's **** horse-20 min wait at fence 12 and really flew the log and ditch, so genuine. I really felt for everyone when Elizabeth was flown away, talk about a confidence shaker!! I do hope Elizabeth is ok too, has anyone heard? 

Girl who fell at the trucks-again how is she? She was flying into those and I'm not really surprised it went wrong for her there  we were just at that fence but moved to the front of the drop at the lake when it happened. Hope she's ok. 

Made up for Mark Todd, can't believe he's won yet again and on one a NZB. Legend, he is a class act and knows exactly what he's doing

And Lenamore...poetry in motion!!


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## Harrie123 (26 April 2011)

Just wanted to say how good Matthew Wrights horse Well Spotted looked going through the quarry, he was still full of running, looks like a great jumper!


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## Jul (26 April 2011)

Katie_B said:



			I would agree with the majority of this, except I would be surprised if Mandiba spooked at the air jacket. There was a bit delay between the pop and him moving off. Infact, it looked like, and I think a few others agreed on the other thread, that she waved her reins in dissapointment and he spooked at that. Would be interesting to see a replay, although don't think i could see him hit the deck again 

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thoroughlybred1 said:



			That was my thought when i watched it too. There was definately a moment of calm in the horse before Karen chucked her reins (in what seemed to be fustration) before he went over the edge. And if it was a factor noone will be blaming themselves more than Karen herself.
		
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Got to say that this is exactly what I thought, that last comment too thoroughlybred. She was on her feet and holding onto the horse, but let go in what appeared to be frustration. A great pity, but we do all get frustrated sometimes and she obviously didn't have time to predict what was going to happen. It looked as if she could have held onto it IMO but didn't, which didn't make for great watching unfortunately 

Opposition Buzz was just fantastic, so gutted for them to have had the fence(s?) down in the SJ.


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## Sanolly (26 April 2011)

Sadly I only got to see the highlights yesterday as was busy on Sunday, so I was wondering if anyone took the direct route at the farmyard with those 2 corners? I saw one rider do it (can't remember her name!) and her horse caught his leg on the short rail on the second corner, after that everyone else took the long route.


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## kerilli (26 April 2011)

Sanolly said:



			Sadly I only got to see the highlights yesterday as was busy on Sunday, so I was wondering if anyone took the direct route at the farmyard with those 2 corners? I saw one rider do it (can't remember her name!) and her horse caught his leg on the short rail on the second corner, after that everyone else took the long route.
		
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a few did it. Toddy did it on his first one (Major Milestone), i think the German girl did it on Calma Schelly, straight as a die, one of the Brit young riders did it (one of the Emilys?! sorry, i can't remember which one it was!) Not many once they realised that it didn't waste much time and was such a risk. They had to set up a lot more for the 2 corners, whereas if they took the first one on the angle they could just keep coming to it.
really hope Nicola's horse is okay, that looked a nasty bang to the stifle.


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## MiaBella (26 April 2011)

Interesting comment from both Tina Gifford who felt the short back rail confused horses and from William FP who said that there was a sea of flags and the horses didn't know which ones to lock on to.  

In the old days trainers like Lady Hugh Russell had you jump coloured spots on the fences, so that you learnt accuracy.  Now of course to save time and materials fences can be black flagged so horses just jump between flags (rather than that old fashioned idea where you could jump the corner or the bounce or the one stride of the V).  Do we think that riders have become slack in this part of the training, that horses know to jump between flags so riders aren't so hot on their accuracy?  

Apart from Nicola's horse that injured itself (and was not straight over the first corner so was not going to make the second) the couple that did go the straight way made it look easy.  The comments from the riders was that they thought the time would be easy to make so this was a long route they could afford to take, but that extra distance, the extra turning did take it out of the horses and the time wasn't so easy.


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