# Mrs G. TB mare



## Amymay (10 August 2013)

This beautiful TB mare was purchased from Derby sales today for £100. She raced twice, and is 5 years old.

Firstly when will the racing industry start taking responsibility for it's rejects, and secondly what excuse for a human being thinks it's acceptable to allow an animal to get into this state?

My heart is totally broken for her.


----------



## Meowy Catkin (10 August 2013)

Poor girl. 

Is she safe now?


----------



## Amymay (10 August 2013)

Yes, safe as houses.


----------



## Rose Folly (10 August 2013)

Poor little girl!
Have you bought her? Couldn't agree with your sentiments more. The one good thing is, that as you probably know, with good feed and TLC she will recover amazingly, and you/ someone else, may have a truly super horse on their hands. I did it with my user name mare, Rose Folly, and she turned out to be a cracker.

Good on you. and what a lucky girl. Will you keep us posted?


----------



## DabDab (10 August 2013)

Aww, poor little woman 
My friend's just bought something similar - finished racing a month ago, turfed out in a field unrugged (probably never having been without a stable, hard feed, shoes or a rug since it was a year old) - it's hat-rack skinny, can barely walk because its feet are so sore, has the worst rain scald I've ever seen and is covered in bites and kicks from the other horse. The poor boy must be in agony, it's just heartbreaking.

Is this your horse?


----------



## Regandal (10 August 2013)

Dear Lord, that is heartbreaking.  What happened to her?


----------



## Amymay (10 August 2013)

A friend has bought her, not me.

Reject from racing Regandal. Sold on and this is her today.


----------



## snooples (10 August 2013)

Where did she go after she raced


Iv a feeling though if the racing industry had to take accountablility for horses getting like this after they raced, I dont think we would see many ex racers around anymore

Glad shes safe and gets better soon


----------



## Lolo (10 August 2013)

Is she fresh from a yard, or a resale gone wrong?

Poor mite, if they can't keep them or sell them, why don't they shoot them? That is at least a safe fate, compared to what she might have faced. Good luck to your friend.


----------



## Regandal (10 August 2013)

Is anyone being reported for this?


----------



## Lolo (10 August 2013)

snooples said:



			Where did she go after she raced


Iv a feeling though if the racing industry had to take accountablility for horses getting like this after they raced, I dont think we would see many ex racers around anymore

Glad shes safe and gets better soon
		
Click to expand...

I think we would, but they'd be more like Reg- privately owned in racing, and then kept after racing by the same owner. The owner cares deeply about him and her priority is always what is best for him- he was a scruffy, fluffy, muscle-free lump when Al got him, but he was well cared for and safe.


----------



## Amymay (10 August 2013)

I believe that some action will be sought over her condition, yes.

She was sold 18 months ago to be a broodmare. Thats all I really know at the moment.

She fetched a good price today. Previosly she was sold for £40.


----------



## Regandal (10 August 2013)

amymay said:



			I believe that some action will be sought over her condition, yes.

She was sold 18 months ago to be a broodmare. Thats all I really know at the moment.

She fetched a good price today. Previosly she was sold for £40.
		
Click to expand...

£40?  That is pitiful.  What goes round...............


----------



## Jellyhead (10 August 2013)

Poor poor girl - no horse deserves to end up like her though sadly it seems to happen a lot, including my boy. Interestingly it seems her previous trainer has an RSPCA conviction for cruelty towards a horse in his care. Although if she has been sold a few times since maybe he can't be blamed.


----------



## Fools Motto (10 August 2013)

Glad to see she is in a happy home now. She has a lovely front on her, and I wish her, and her new owners many happy and healthy years ahead.  Work have a race filly who is due to be sold, and I fear for her future already. It can be so sad, but for a few, it turns out to be very happy, and deservingly so.


----------



## Holly Hocks (10 August 2013)

Poor girl.  It will be rewarding watching her improve and come good and knowing you have made a difference.  Please keep us updated with her progress.


----------



## cellie (10 August 2013)

I had steaming row with customer the other day that insisted that all racers were treated like kings and looked after better than privately owned horses.His argument being that the rspca would close yards down if they werent looked after properly.Im going to copy this picture and stuff it right under his nose.This is what happens to the two year olds that dont make it .Makes me so sad .


----------



## Girlracer (10 August 2013)

Poor thing, I look forward to an updated photo in a few months.


----------



## Lolo (10 August 2013)

cellie said:



			I had steaming row with customer the other day that insisted that all racers were treated like kings and looked after better than privately owned horses.His argument being that the rspca would close yards down if they werent looked after properly.Im going to copy this picture and stuff it right under his nose.This is what happens to the two year olds that dont make it .Makes me so sad .
		
Click to expand...

Horses in training are generally well kept, if with reputable trainers. It's what happens to the poor mites once they're sold on to homes with no clue who buy them because they're cheap that's the issue IMO...


----------



## star26 (11 August 2013)

Poor girl, she looks so scared and sad, probably unsure of what fate awaits her this time. 
I bet she will be stunning with proper feeding, time and tlc. 
I just don't know why people think it is ok to mistreat and starve animals, I'm sure the people who did this to her never missed a meal, makes me so angry and upset! 
Please keep us posted on her progress- I'd love to see a few pics when she is looking better- one where she has happy eyes


----------



## E13 (11 August 2013)

Poor girl  Another one who looks forward to seeing a photo of a happy healthy update very soon!


----------



## merrymeasure (11 August 2013)

Oh the poor little girl! She looks so sad! Wonderful now she is safe. She will look beautiful when she comes right, I'm sure of that. No horse deserves to be treated like that. I really do hope some action will be taken over her. Please keep us updated with her progress, she really does look a lovely sort, despite her awful condition. I wish her and her new owner all the very best x


----------



## Janee (11 August 2013)

It breaks your heart to see them in this condition, I can't understand how a human being can let it happen, thanks to your friend she has a future but what about the rest? 

A friend of mine paid £600 (yes that much) for an ex racer, she hadn't seen her in the flesh just spoken to owner and seen photo and video.  When the mare arrived on the yard, after a 5 hour journey without stops or food and water, and she travelled on one of the hottest days of the year in a rug.  Why rugged up?  Rug removed and she was in a similar state to Mrs G.  3 months later on Dr Green and careful diet to build her up she is just starting to come good but has only just now got enough strength to start any sort of work.  These people should be treated the way they treat their animal, criminal.  

Sorry about the rant it makes me SO ANGRY.


----------



## Amymay (11 August 2013)

Thanks all. She had a good night, and so her journey really starts.

Janee would be interested in your management during tje first couple months of having your horse.  Would you pm me?


----------



## quirky (11 August 2013)

Amazing that they can take the time and trouble to tidy up her mane yet obviously not feed her enough for her needs.

Glad she has landed on her feet, would be good to see a picture of her in a few months.


----------



## Ladyinred (11 August 2013)

Well done for posting this thread Amymay, awareness of how bad it is is what's needed.

I know she is in a very safe place with lots of good advice available, we now have to hope there is no underlying reason for her present condition.


----------



## hayinamanger (11 August 2013)

So pleased for this mare, amymay, I have bought horses in similar condition and they have responded very well to careful diet and tlc.  I hope you will keep us updated with her progress.


----------



## Suelin (11 August 2013)

Poor little maid.  so glad that your friend has her and will give her a good future.  Will watch her progress with interest.


----------



## Amymay (11 August 2013)

Ladyinred said:



			Well done for posting this thread Amymay, awareness of how bad it is is what's needed.
		
Click to expand...

Exactly.  I know I shouldn't be shocked - but really was shocked by this mare.

I'm very interested to know the full story - which is emerging - and hope that when the full story comes to light it will be presented to the racing authorities for some answers.


----------



## zaminda (11 August 2013)

Its so sad to see horses end up in this state having left racing. However, if they have been sold out of the industry I think there is little come back on them. Its a shame, but not everyone looks after animals as we would like, I remember the thread on here about someone who bought back her old horse having seen pics of him on fb looking dreadful. Sadly people like that are few and far between, its why my horses have a home for life, especially our anglo, who came to us looking very similar to this poor mare, having been sold unbroken by her breeder as a broodmare.
Good luck to the new connections, ours was wormy, and had ulcer issues from her poor treatment, but that is a whole other story.


----------



## AdorableAlice (11 August 2013)

Good luck and much admiration for taking the poor girl on.  I really hope she comes good for her owner.

The costly bit will be the bloods and vet guidance on worming, then, when you know what is going on inside. hopefully nothing more sinister than simple starvation, Dr Green will do his magic along side careful and incremental nutrition.  I really look forward to seeing her bloom into a lovely young mare.


----------



## Janee (11 August 2013)

AdorableAlice said:



			Good luck and much admiration for taking the poor girl on.  I really hope she comes good for her owner.

The costly bit will be the bloods and vet guidance on worming, then, when you know what is going on inside. hopefully nothing more sinister than simple starvation, Dr Green will do his magic along side careful and incremental nutrition.  I really look forward to seeing her bloom into a lovely young mare.
		
Click to expand...

 Thats interesting, the coat rack my friend took on really struggled to eat any hard feed when she first arrived, so it was slowly introduced and now she looks forward to Teatime


----------



## AdorableAlice (11 August 2013)

It is very easy to look at a poor horse and reach for the feed bucket, but if you think about it and put a human slant on it, there is no way a malnourished human would be able to tuck into steak and chips.

We patched a poor cob up a few years ago and the improvement was rapid after appropriate worming and low quantities of quality hard feed, haylage and grazing.  Obviously patching a cob up is a very different proposition to a TB.  Mrs. G is a lucky girl and will be fascinating to watch as she blooms in her new home.


----------



## RutlandH2O (11 August 2013)

Welled-up eyes and no words!!


----------



## Amaranta (11 August 2013)

quirky said:



			Amazing that they can take the time and trouble to tidy up her mane yet obviously not feed her enough for her needs.

Glad she has landed on her feet, would be good to see a picture of her in a few months.
		
Click to expand...


I know, totally bizarre!  Can't be arsed to feed it or look after it properly but took the time to pull her mane - makes no sense at all.

This little girl is now in the best of homes with an owner who cares, I know she does not look it, but she is one of the lucky ones.


----------



## Kelly1982 (11 August 2013)

Omg that's terrible!! I just can't get my head round why people do this?? Think she is going to be lovely tho. Good luck to mare and your friend x


----------



## Tobiano (11 August 2013)

Poor little horse.  So glad your friends have found her Amymay.  Wishing them luck with her.


----------



## ozpoz (11 August 2013)

Poor girl, such a sad look in her eye.
I'm looking forward to seeing an update of her, bright eyed and beautiful, as she should be.


----------



## cellie (11 August 2013)

I do agree with your comment its always the minority that ruin reputation for majority ,Should have worded it bit better .I was trying to explain my feelings on 2 yr olds racing at time and how they are discarded after they dont make the cut.He thought they were all kept for stud and had continued good care


----------



## Caledonia (11 August 2013)

So sad for her, very glad she has a home that will get her right again. 

Whilst I agree that racing should try and be more responsible, so should every other faction of the horse world. At least she has a history because of the traceability of racing. If she'd been bred for another job and flung out there would be no means of knowing her past.

Rather than just attack the BHA why not do something about the other disciplines which don't have records and force them to have the same accountability?


----------



## Amymay (11 August 2013)

Caledonia said:



			So sad for her, very glad she has a home that will get her right again. 

Whilst I agree that racing should try and be more responsible, so should every other faction of the horse world. At least she has a history because of the traceability of racing. If she'd been bred for another job and flung out there would be no means of knowing her past.

Rather than just attack the BHA why not do something about the other disciplines which don't have records and force them to have the same accountability?
		
Click to expand...

I don't disagree with anything you've said. 

In this particular case though, I'm gunning for people I'm afraid.


----------



## Caledonia (11 August 2013)

Who are you gunning for? The breeders, the owners, those that sold her this time, those that sold her previously, the trainer, the BHA?

Edited cos I see her name!


----------



## Amymay (11 August 2013)

Caledonia said:



			Edited cos I see her name!
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Cinnamontoast (11 August 2013)

I took on a toast rack Hanoverian that hadn't been rugged over winter and looked similar. Ad-lib hay, lots of turn out on decent grass really helped, took six weeks to have him at his ideal weight along with sugar beet and some hard feed.


----------



## poiuytrewq (11 August 2013)

Oh Amymay that's awful- sadly ive seen similar and worse in my time in racing. Its made me sick to my stomach at times. I took on one myself for a while just to get him healthy again. Worming, Alfalfa oil, decent grazing- some feed I cant remember but was by Allen and Page and came highly recommended by someone who'd been there in the past- then elbow grease turned him into the shiney fat boy he now is!
Whats the plan with her? Is she a keeper?
Best of luck, she has a sweet face.


----------



## Caledonia (11 August 2013)

She was sent by the breeders to DBS twice as a yearling and bought back in both times. Her half brothers both made some money, one a 20K yearling and the other 68K 2yo. 

She was trained by Richard Guest, had 2 runs and was slow/green/whatever. The 'owners' haven't owned any other horses in training, for whatever reason.

She hasn't bred any foals for racing either.

She's been out of racing for three years - so who is accountable?


----------



## TrasaM (11 August 2013)

Poor Mrs G. Now I'm concerned .. I saw a beautiful filly last year at the races in Nottingham, Royal Gig. I even phoned up her trainers afterwards to ask about her and if she was for sale. She's raced a few times since then but has always come a resounding last. Could she end up like this too?


----------



## Amymay (11 August 2013)

Caledonia said:



			She was sent by the breeders to DBS twice as a yearling and bought back in both times. Her half brothers both made some money, one a 20K yearling and the other 68K 2yo. 

She was trained by Richard Guest, had 2 runs and was slow/green/whatever. The 'owners' haven't owned any other horses in training, for whatever reason.

She hasn't bred any foals for racing either.

She's been out of racing for three years - so who is accountable?
		
Click to expand...

Ah interesting.  How did you find all that out? (PM me).  One of her owners (when in racing) was spoken to last night, and she was apparently sold to Ireland to be a broodmare (not sure how she then ended back here).

I guess I consider the racing industry responsible.  They know how many horses just don't make it, how little they're valued subsequently and what the downward spiral for a lot of these animals subsequently is......


----------



## Caledonia (11 August 2013)

amymay said:



			Ah interesting.  How did you find all that out? (PM me).  One of her owners (when in racing) was spoken to last night, and she was apparently sold to Ireland to be a broodmare (not sure how she then ended back here).

I guess I consider the racing industry responsible.  They know how many horses just don't make it, how little they're valued subsequently and what the downward spiral for a lot of these animals subsequently is......
		
Click to expand...

It's all out there on the internet. Nothing is hidden! 

What about people that breed from their mare and sell it on as a youngster? What about the SJ industry, the dressage industry etc? They all do the same, it's just not traceable. 

I agree that there's wastage, what really winds me up is that until people accept the wastage in the other sections of the horse world and looks for accountability there, nothing much will change. How many horses went thro the Derby sales, and how many were TBs? 

Other sports don't know how many 'don't make it', the private breeders who breed because they want to and for no other reason don't know how many 'don't make it' because there are NO records for any horses bred except TBs.

It's such a shame that the efforts that have gone into making the TB stud book as scrupulous as possible and the only traceable equine in the UK is the very stick that is used to beat it with. You make a good case for the resistance of other disciplines being equally transparent.


----------



## Amymay (11 August 2013)

Caledonia said:



			It's all out there on the internet. Nothing is hidden!
		
Click to expand...

I managed to get some info - but not as much as you.  All interesting.  thanks


----------



## Dab (11 August 2013)

Caledonia said:



			It's all out there on the internet. Nothing is hidden! 

What about people that breed from their mare and sell it on as a youngster? What about the SJ industry, the dressage industry etc? They all do the same, it's just not traceable. 

I agree that there's wastage, what really winds me up is that until people accept the wastage in the other sections of the horse world and looks for accountability there, nothing much will change. How many horses went thro the Derby sales, and how many were TBs? 

Other sports don't know how many 'don't make it', the private breeders who breed because they want to and for no other reason don't know how many 'don't make it' because there are NO records for any horses bred except TBs.

It's such a shame that the efforts that have gone into making the TB stud book as scrupulous as possible and the only traceable equine in the UK is the very stick that is used to beat it with. You make a good case for the resistance of other disciplines being equally transparent. 

Click to expand...

^^^ agree with this...

and consider thay everytime an equine is 'sold on' you lose any right to choice over what then happens to that equine, so you either don't sell on or face the fact that anything can then happen to that equine. Every effort can be made to try and find the best and most suitable home, but nothing is quarenteed.

The blame for Mrs G getting into this state needs to be investiagted to find out how and who neglected her, and the book very firmly thrown at those responsible, but i'm not convinced that the responsibility can be put at the door of the racing industry in this case.


----------



## Amaranta (11 August 2013)

I understand what Caledonia is saying:

http://epona.tv/blog/2013/august/the-dark-side-of-performance-breeding


----------



## Honey08 (11 August 2013)

Dab said:



			Yes, I agree with this.  Its the last owner who let her get into that state.  I'm not a fan at all of the racing industry, but can't see, unfortunately, how the blame sits with the racing industry in this case.  I would be gunning for whoever sold her on.

We used to have a share in a racehorse when I was a teen.  He was useless!  Bred by a friend, who took him home and he made a fantastic hunter for his daughter once out of racing.
		
Click to expand...


----------



## doriangrey (11 August 2013)

Amaranta said:



			I understand what Caledonia is saying:

http://epona.tv/blog/2013/august/the-dark-side-of-performance-breeding

Click to expand...

OMG.  The video in that link actually made me cry.  Those poor, poor horses.  I'm just glad Mrs G. has found a home where she will be looked after, but there must be so many out there suffering the same fate whatever discipline they were bred for.  Very upsetting.


----------



## Pearlsasinger (11 August 2013)

Interesting!  I was going to say that this is down to the owners who simply allow their horses to be sold on to an uncertain fate because they see them as a commodity, rather than it being the trainers' responsibility but now......
I'm so pleased for this mare, that she has landed on her feet in a home where she will be looked after properly, just please ask your friends to feed her up slowly.  I used to have a youngster who had been fed up too quickly and it caused her all sorts of digestive (and other) problems  later .

I saw your post yesterday and was horrified that she had sold for so little, now I'm appalled.


----------



## Caledonia (11 August 2013)

Amaranta said:



			I understand what Caledonia is saying:

http://epona.tv/blog/2013/august/the-dark-side-of-performance-breeding

Click to expand...

Thanks - I really hope that this is pursued and other main breeders/studs are named and shamed. They don't need to go to Poland to be farmed.


----------



## pippixox (11 August 2013)

i think one of the biggest problems is there are so many owners, many who are small time, and if the horse doesn't perform (which of course many don't) they sell them on very quickly for what ever money they can make. they are working animals with high livery training fees, so owners don't get the same bond we do to ours. but whoever was the owner when it was then decided the horse was not good enough to race should have been responsible. selling on as a broodmare is even more irresponsible- if she wasn't successful racing why breed yet more average tb's from her.
my dad has race horses and obviously he doesn't know where they end up once he has decided to sell them. but if while he owns them they are not going to make the racing grade himself and the trainer try to find a good home. that's how i got my boy when he was injured from racing  but although the trainer can try to encourage owners to pay for racehorse retraining to make riding horses and rehabilitation, some owners simply want to sell them on to stop costs (however, there are charities to take them for free) I'm thankful that there are so many more ror classes now to increase ex-racer popularity.
i think people always want to find someone to blame, and there always is, but it is also to do with a massive UK (and global) wide problem of too many horses and not enough people who want them. but TB's appear to be over-bred a lot more than other breeds.


----------



## Caledonia (11 August 2013)

pippixox said:



			but TB's appear to be over-bred a lot more than other breeds.
		
Click to expand...

Based on what statistics?


----------



## Dab (11 August 2013)

Caledonia said:



			Based on what statistics?
		
Click to expand...

I'd also be interested to see those statistics  and at least there has been an active reduction in the number of TB foals born and active broodmares in Ireland and GB over the past 5 y


----------



## Meowy Catkin (11 August 2013)

That video... just heartbreaking. 

It said in another article about the same place that 100 horses have been removed from the farm.

http://epona.tv/blog/2013/august/100-posadowa-horses-taken-away


----------



## pinklilly (11 August 2013)

I bought one in very poor condition, teeth were so sharp they were cutting the insides of his mouth and had skin infections.  I don't blame the racing industry, the people who had it after leaving racing ( supposedly experienced ) didn't look after it properly and then sold it to novices who found out very quickly it was too much horse for them, even underweight so they promptly wanted rid.

On the subject of overbreeding, there seems to be more of a problem with all the scraggy little cob and trotter crosses which are sold for a few quid.


----------



## Amaranta (11 August 2013)

Dab said:



			I'd also be interested to see those statistics  and at least there has been an active reduction in the number of TB foals born and active broodmares in Ireland and GB over the past 5 y
		
Click to expand...


I would agree with this, Tom Price did not breed racehorses, he bred coloured cobs and we all know what happened in South Wales to the one's not deemed good enough to sell to the USA.  Did not stop him breeding from them either!


----------



## ebonyallen (11 August 2013)

Words fail me that I can put on here. I do not know how some people can sleep at night. Thank goodness at last she has found someone to love and care for her poor mare.


----------



## nix123 (11 August 2013)

Bl00dy disgusting!! I'm so pleased shes found a safe place to live. Some people i could quite happily shoot!


----------



## ELFSBELLS (11 August 2013)

Disgraceful !! Pleased she is now safe x


----------



## pippixox (11 August 2013)

your right numbers have gone down, but i personally find when you look at classified all the ones going for cheap are either colored cob types of thoroughbreds. decided to google for some facts! 
quote: 'BHA figures showing that the number of foals bred in Great Britain and Ireland fell by 38% between 2008 and 2011, thanks only to the recession'
but more worryingly: 'In Britain, 15,000 potential racehorses are in training at any one time. Some 5,000 horses are retired each year because they do not make the grade, suffer injury or simply get too old. '
(http://www.economist.com/blogs/gametheory/2012/03/overbreeding-horse-racing)

i'm sure that poor mare will look amazing by next year


----------



## Caledonia (11 August 2013)

pippixox said:



			your right numbers have gone down, but i personally find when you look at classified all the ones going for cheap are either colored cob types of thoroughbreds. decided to google for some facts! 
quote: 'BHA figures showing that the number of foals bred in Great Britain and Ireland fell by 38% between 2008 and 2011, thanks only to the recession'
but more worryingly: 'In Britain, 15,000 potential racehorses are in training at any one time. Some 5,000 horses are retired each year because they do not make the grade, suffer injury or simply get too old. '
(http://www.economist.com/blogs/gametheory/2012/03/overbreeding-horse-racing)

i'm sure that poor mare will look amazing by next year 

Click to expand...

There are estimated to be well over a million horses in the UK. 15,000 in training isn't that much as a percentage. Have you found equivalent figures for all other horse sports? Indeed have you found any figures for other horse sports?

Until you can compare like with like, it's absolutely wrong to insinuate racing is guilty of overproduction any more than any other section of the horse world.


----------



## babymare (11 August 2013)

The poor little mare. she just looks so sad bless her . but has others have said at least she is safe. please keep up updated how she goes on


----------



## Dab (11 August 2013)

Caledonia said:



			There are estimated to be well over a million horses in the UK. 15,000 in training isn't that much as a percentage.
		
Click to expand...

kinda puts it into perspective  but sure that will get overlooked!


----------



## Moomin1 (11 August 2013)

Jellyhead said:



			Poor poor girl - no horse deserves to end up like her though sadly it seems to happen a lot, including my boy. Interestingly it seems her previous trainer has an RSPCA conviction for cruelty towards a horse in his care. Although if she has been sold a few times since maybe he can't be blamed.
		
Click to expand...

Who was her previous trainer?

Certainly not the worst case out there, but obviously not acceptable. It is quite common for ex racers to be retired and end up looking like this pretty quickly as they lose their muscle, and given they have barely any fat on them whilst  training, they then look very skinny.


----------



## Amymay (11 August 2013)

Moomin1 said:



			It is quite common for ex racers to be retired and end up looking like this pretty quickly as they lose their muscle, and given they have barely any fat on them whilst  training, they then look very skinny.
		
Click to expand...

If their basic needs are met, ie fed - then no, they don't end up looking like this at all.


----------



## DabDab (11 August 2013)

Moomin1 said:



			Certainly not the worst case out there, but obviously not acceptable. It is quite common for ex racers to be retired and end up looking like this pretty quickly as they lose their muscle, and given they have barely any fat on them whilst  training, they then look very skinny.
		
Click to expand...

Yes I agree, when they are bought by people who don't realise how much food they need. Ignorance is no defence though - any idiot could see that this mare needs more food.


----------



## Moomin1 (11 August 2013)

amymay said:



			If their basic needs are met, ie fed - then no, they don't end up looking like this at all.
		
Click to expand...

Did I say that they do, if their basic needs are met?  I think you will find I didn't.

What I did say, is that it's common for ex racers to end up in this condition because of the minimal fat they have whilst training, as opposed to the total muscle mass they have, which then depletes quickly when training stops.


----------



## Amymay (11 August 2013)

Moomin1 said:



			What I did say, is that it's common for ex racers to end up in this condition because of the minimal fat they have whilst training, as opposed to the total muscle mass they have, which then depletes quickly when training stops.
		
Click to expand...

And what I said was, not if they're fed.


----------



## DabDab (11 August 2013)

Moomin1 said:



			Did I say that they do, if their basic needs are met?  I think you will find I didn't.

What I did say, is that it's common for ex racers to end up in this condition because of the minimal fat they have whilst training, as opposed to the total muscle mass they have, which then depletes quickly when training stops.
		
Click to expand...

I knew what you meant. Unfortunately too many people buy them because they are cheap, rather than because they know what it takes to care for an ott Thoroughbred.


----------



## Moomin1 (11 August 2013)

amymay said:



			And what I said was, not if they're fed.
		
Click to expand...

Haha, well that is stating the obvious really isn't it?

You are not getting what I am pointing out at all are you?


----------



## Moomin1 (11 August 2013)

DabDab said:



			I knew what you meant. Unfortunately too many people buy them because they are cheap, rather than because they know what it takes to care for an ott Thoroughbred.
		
Click to expand...

Exactly Dabdab!


----------



## Amymay (11 August 2013)

Moomin1 said:



			You are not getting what I am pointing out at all are you?
		
Click to expand...

Well I am up to a point.  But we've had plenty of horses off the track at my yard, and they've never dropped condition in any way.  But then of course they know how to look after them.  Keep them fit, healthy and happy as they're adjusting to a new life.


----------



## zaminda (11 August 2013)

I think that is the problem though, most people don't have a clue how much more food tb's  need in comparison to other horses. They also have very low resale value at the bottom end as the prize money in racing is so poor.


----------



## tankgirl1 (11 August 2013)

Poor girl, glad she has landed on her feet with your friend amymay. Would love to hear of her progress, I bet she will be a different horse in no time!


----------



## Amymay (11 August 2013)

tankgirl1 said:



			I bet she will be a different horse in no time!
		
Click to expand...

If she survives, yes - let's hope so Tankgirl.


----------



## Moomin1 (11 August 2013)

amymay said:



			If she survives, yes - let's hope so Tankgirl.
		
Click to expand...

Unless the photo isn't quite depictive of her true condition, then I would be quite worried if she didn't survive - she certainly isn't 'horrendously' emaciated.  Very thin and poor, yes, but not the worst by any stretch of imagination.  I think she will thrive with the correct diet and care.


----------



## JinglebellJessi & MistletoeMagic (11 August 2013)

She's going to be so beautiful. But what a disgusting state for a 5 year old to be in.
I hope her recovery is swift!


----------



## Amymay (11 August 2013)

Moomin1 said:



			Unless the photo isn't quite depictive of her true condition, then I would be quite worried if she didn't survive - she certainly isn't 'horrendously' emaciated.  Very thin and poor, yes, but not the worst by any stretch of imagination.  I think she will thrive with the correct diet and care. 

Click to expand...

She's worse in the flesh, and not in a good way.


----------



## AdorableAlice (11 August 2013)

Why did the auction house let her go through the ring in that state.

There have been plenty of quite recent cases where auctioneers have refused to trade horses in a bad way.


----------



## DabDab (11 August 2013)

amymay said:



			She's worse in the flesh, and not in a good way.
		
Click to expand...

Oh, I'm sorry to hear that - best wishes to all involved.


----------



## cambrica (11 August 2013)

Bless her heart, words fail me. She really does look in a dreadful condition to me, I would hate to see a photo of her rear end. 
Well, hopefully now with an awful lot of tlc she will blossom. As a nation of 'animal lovers' I despair at times


----------



## tankgirl1 (11 August 2013)

amymay said:



			She's worse in the flesh, and not in a good way.
		
Click to expand...

Oh the poor girl! I am sure if anyone can see her right, then you can amymay. Best of luck with her, she has a beautiful face x


----------



## Cobalob (11 August 2013)

I understand what moonin is saying, straight off the track quite a few tbs will loose condition il even if fed up. They go from very fit to nothing quite a lot of the time, meaning muscle etc is lost as well. 

Unless there is an underlaying problem then I'm sure she will be fighting fit in time with the correct care. A lot of horses in get state make it into lovely horses when they have the right people handling them. 
I hope she makes a quick recovery with lots of love shown, I'm sure she will blossom


----------



## Dab (11 August 2013)

although Moonin makes a good point, this mare is not in this condition because she has been 'let down' after finishing racing (correctly or not), no she is in this condition because she was neglected by her last owner!


----------



## Amymay (11 August 2013)

tankgirl1 said:



			Oh the poor girl! I am sure if anyone can see her right, then you can amymay. Best of luck with her, she has a beautiful face x
		
Click to expand...

She's not mine, so can't take any responsibility for hercwonderful care.


----------



## Moomin1 (11 August 2013)

Dab said:



			although Moonin makes a good point, this mare is not in this condition because she has been 'let down' after finishing racing (correctly or not), no she is in this condition because she was neglected by her last owner!
		
Click to expand...

I may be really thick now in what I say (probably so!!), but where is the detail about past owners/treatment etc?


----------



## Dab (11 August 2013)

her last race was in 2010 ergo she has not been 'let down' recently....


----------



## Moomin1 (11 August 2013)

Dab said:



			her last race was in 2010 ergo she has not been 'let down' recently....
		
Click to expand...

That doesn't quite answer the question. She may well have still been in training.  Where is this information?


----------



## martlin (11 August 2013)

Faracat said:



			It said in another article about the same place that 100 horses have been removed from the farm.

http://epona.tv/blog/2013/august/100-posadowa-horses-taken-away

Click to expand...

And, IMO, it's another calamity about to happen, as the ''rescue'' is not really organised, they advertised on FB free horses, basically, so people turned up


----------



## Meowy Catkin (11 August 2013)

Oh carp.


----------



## Dab (11 August 2013)

highly unlikely that she would have been kept in training (at great expense) after her two very poor races!


----------



## bonny (11 August 2013)

Moomin1 said:



			That doesn't quite answer the question. She may well have still been in training.  Where is this information?
		
Click to expand...

She was a hopeless 2 year old in 2010 who had 2 races.....no one would have kept her in training.


----------



## Dab (11 August 2013)

bonny said:



			She was a hopeless 2 year old in 2010 who had 2 races.....no one would have kept her in training.
		
Click to expand...

exactly and certainly not for nearly another 3 years!


----------



## honetpot (11 August 2013)

I live near Newmarket so have been on quite a few yards. In training they carry very little body fat but they live in 24/7, rugged and cosseted and tend only to go out on exercise so they spend all their energy on going fast and not on keeping warm. So they come out of training lean and then if they are not rugged and cosseted and given enough food to keep warm you would not have to 'neglect' them just not understand the amount of food they need just to keep warm to end up with something looking like a welfare case.
 The only person who seems to have made any profit out of this animal is the auctioneer, has he will have had the entry fee however low the sale price. The racing industry is very good at highlighting the glossy events but wants to airbrush the 'wastage', some owners show no interest in their horses except for race days and to some the idea of their horse being turned out in field will seem like a good retirement as they have no knowledge of a horses long term requirements.
 The truth is trainers are so despirate for owners that they do not like explaining the realities of what happens to a failed racehorse, apart from the financial aspect, telling your owner that the kindest thing is to have your horse shot when its too slow and before asking for £10-20k for the next sure thing would not go down well and certainly not go with the image they want to portray.


----------



## TrasaM (11 August 2013)

bonny said:



			She was a hopeless 2 year old in 2010 who had 2 races.....no one would have kept her in training.
		
Click to expand...

You'd think so wouldn't you. Yet the filly I spotted has raced at least 8 times over an assortment of distances and more recently two attempts at hurdles ; First time Jockey unseated and 2nd  pulled up. Six flat races over every distance and last every time. Yet they persisted with her training.
  As already said I'm now wondering what's happened to her as she last raced in May I think. Don't have the courage to look her up as I'm not in position to buy and it's not logical to feel so concerned about a one time meeting with a bay filly.   I hope she finds a happy home.


----------



## bonny (11 August 2013)

honetpot said:



			I live near Newmarket so have been on quite a few yards. In training they carry very little body fat but they live in 24/7, rugged and cosseted and tend only to go out on exercise so they spend all their energy on going fast and not on keeping warm. So they come out of training lean and then if they are not rugged and cosseted and given enough food to keep warm you would not have to 'neglect' them just not understand the amount of food they need just to keep warm to end up with something looking like a welfare case.
 The only person who seems to have made any profit out of this animal is the auctioneer, has he will have had the entry fee however low the sale price. The racing industry is very good at highlighting the glossy events but wants to airbrush the 'wastage', some owners show no interest in their horses except for race days and to some the idea of their horse being turned out in field will seem like a good retirement as they have no knowledge of a horses long term requirements.
 The truth is trainers are so despirate for owners that they do not like explaining the realities of what happens to a failed racehorse, apart from the financial aspect, telling your owner that the kindest thing is to have your horse shot when its too slow and before asking for £10-20k for the next sure thing would not go down well.
		
Click to expand...

She isn't a racehorse and hasn't been for the last 3 years so most of that is irrelevant. Non of us have any idea what she looked like when she came out of racing but it's safe to assume that the weight loss is more recent.


----------



## Dab (11 August 2013)

TrasaM said:



			You'd think so wouldn't you. Yet the filly I spotted has raced at least 8 times over an assortment of distances and more recently two attempts at hurdles ; First time Jockey unseated and 2nd  pulled up. Six flat races over every distance and last every time. Yet they persisted with her training.
  As already said I'm now wondering what's happened to her as she last raced in May I think. Don't have the courage to look her up as I'm not in position to buy and it's not logical to feel so concerned about a one time meeting with a bay filly.   I hope she finds a happy home.
		
Click to expand...

yes but this mares last race was 3 years ago!!!! it would not have been kept in training for a further 3 years.


----------



## bonny (11 August 2013)

TrasaM said:



			You'd think so wouldn't you. Yet the filly I spotted has raced at least 8 times over an assortment of distances and more recently two attempts at hurdles ; First time Jockey unseated and 2nd  pulled up. Six flat races over every distance and last every time. Yet they persisted with her training.
  As already said I'm now wondering what's happened to her as she last raced in May I think. Don't have the courage to look her up as I'm not in position to buy and it's not logical to feel so concerned about a one time meeting with a bay filly.   I hope she finds a happy home.
		
Click to expand...

I would guess your filly will retire to be a broodmare as she's from a decent family....


----------



## TrasaM (11 August 2013)

Dab said:



			yes but this mares last race was 3 years ago!!!! it would not have been kept in training for a further 3 years.
		
Click to expand...

Yes I know, I read that.  Comment was regarding how many outings they get before being cast aside. 
 Guess some get given up on quicker than others. The boy I ride had 4 outings but went through just one owner prior to his current home.


----------



## Dab (12 August 2013)

honetpot said:



			.....So they come out of training lean and then if they are not rugged and cosseted and given enough food to keep warm you would not have to 'neglect' them just not understand the amount of food they need just to keep warm to end up with something looking like a welfare case....
		
Click to expand...

but that is 'neglect' i.e. not providng properly for the animals needs, ignorance is no excuse!


----------



## TrasaM (12 August 2013)

bonny said:



			I would guess your filly will retire to be a broodmare as she's from a decent family....
		
Click to expand...

I do Hope so..but she's still a useless racehorse  I'd hate to think of her being passed from pillar to post and ending up neglected and .. Well like Mrs G


----------



## honetpot (12 August 2013)

I am sure we have all seen people who give their horses what they see as a bucketful of food which they see as 'loads' when in actual fact the bucket full is made up of low calorie chaff, air and less than 500gms of pony cubes with a approximated DE of 8-9 per k. How many people actually weigh their hay? I bet you will be lucky if you get one person on a yard, never mind work out work out much they should feed for the target weight of their horse. Its not an excuse its an explanation  of why many people do not understand their animals nutritional requirements and up with the animal ending up either too fat or too thin.
 Sorry its my hobby horse, I think every feed room should have a set of scales, and it would be a good idea that the manufacturers information was actually be read on what they are feeding instead of giving my X horse my friends Y horses amount of food because its the same height or colour.


----------



## Rose Folly (12 August 2013)

Re the statistics of overbreeding/too many horses, you hardly need statistics. You have only to look among your riding acquaintances, look at the adverts in the press, to see how many unwanted horses there are. This forum frequently carries queries about trying to loan horses out, or enquiring if people think sanctuaries would take such and such a horse. I'm not saying that these horses are unloved, or badly treated, but the fact remains that they are surplus to requirements. And when I see fields round England stuffed with young vanners with poor conformation, poor colouring, probably unbroken and unkempt and skinny, I wonder where on earth they will find a home. 

I - and various friends in the horse and veterinary world - would like to see breeding very seriously licensed, and, though heaven knows how it can be done, some influence brought to bear on disciplines like racing where animals are discarded - and don't get me started on greyhound racing!


----------



## Dab (12 August 2013)

honetpot said:



			I am sure we have all seen people who give their horses what they see as a bucketful of food which they see as 'loads' when in actual fact the bucket full is made up of low calorie chaff, air and less than 500gms of pony cubes with a approximated DE of 8-9 per k. How many people actually weigh their hay? I bet you will be lucky if you get one person on a yard, never mind work out work out much they should feed for the target weight of their horse. Its not an excuse its an explanation  of why many people do not understand their animals nutritional requirements and up with the animal ending up either too fat or too thin.
 Sorry its my hobby horse, I think every feed room should have a set of scales, and it would be a good idea that the manufacturers information was actually be read on what they are feeding instead of giving my X horse my friends Y horses amount of food because its the same height or colour.
		
Click to expand...

but the point remains that the horse in the picture is skin and bones, so whether they were feeding to rule and scale, negates the fact that the horse is losing weight that even the naked eye can detect....and anyone with half a brain would come to the conclusion that all was not well with their feed regime, and would change it! a horse with that low body score does not just happen over night! it is neglect however you choose to dress it up.


----------



## honetpot (12 August 2013)

Unless this the photo is old which I think it is not who ever has had it has probably had it turned out in a field and in most areas the grass rate of growth has been good. Who ever has been responsible for its management has probably thought the grass it was getting was adequate for its needs and that giving it 20kg a day of food was unnecessary. On here you see lots of theads on ' why is my horse loosing weight', I think it takes a certain level of knowledge to stand back and realise there is a problem which can be too much food for the work being done or in this case to little just to maintain its daily needs. I like to think the person who pulled its mane perhaps had the best intentions, if it sold previously for £40, but ended up having neither the knowledge or the money to keep it.


----------



## YasandCrystal (12 August 2013)

Lolo said:



			Horses in training are generally well kept, if with reputable trainers. It's what happens to the poor mites once they're sold on to homes with no clue who buy them because they're cheap that's the issue IMO...
		
Click to expand...

I agree Lolo it's certainly not the racing yards that would let a horse get into this state. Racing livery does not come cheap, but as soon as an owner no longer wants a horse it is given away or sent to the sales with no regard for it's future. This is where the problem lies - so many naively take on a 'free' or cheap horse only to realise afterward they cannot afford the monthly bills. It's far too easy to own a horse.

Regarding the condition I would say the poor mare  is right on par with the Egyptian horses and their poor owners are starving themselves - no such excuse here.


----------



## Hetsmum (12 August 2013)

My heart is totally broken for her too.  Thankfully there are wonderful people out there who pick up the pieces after these horses are 'swept under the carpet'.  I understand the racing people who try to justify the waste by comparing it to the Gypsy Cob population explosion.  However the Racing is an incredibly rich sport with millions wafted around regularly...  These horses are bought for thousands and dumped for mear hundreds to uncertain futures.  I too would rather see them PTS - sad as that would be - than to end up looking like this poor mare.  Amymay I wish your friend luck and hope that this poor girl makes it ok.  I took on a 2 year old trotter (very finely bred) who looked very similar to this.  You could see his ribs along the top of his back and his spine protruded terribly.  5 day panacur, 2 weeks rest before equitape.  Alpha A, slow introduction of hard feed (youngstock mix) and ad lib hay.  6 weeks later whilst you could see his ribs I was happy with his weight.  You would never know now......I actually have to watch his weight!


----------



## Caledonia (12 August 2013)

Hetsmum said:



			However the Racing is an incredibly rich sport with millions wafted around regularly...  These horses are bought for thousands and dumped for mear hundreds to uncertain futures.
		
Click to expand...

Sweeping generalisation much????

This mare was not bought for thousands. Her trainer wasn't rich, her owners were a syndicate that appeared to only own one horse and she went from the breeder directly to training. She has been out of racing for THREE years. 

Do you know what happens to every horse in other sports that don't make the grade? (and I don't mean gypsy cobs, they are just another section of the overbreeding).


----------



## Dab (12 August 2013)

honetpot said:



			Unless this the photo is old which I think it is not who ever has had it has probably had it turned out in a field and in most areas the grass rate of growth has been good. Who ever has been responsible for its management has probably thought the grass it was getting was adequate for its needs and that giving it 20kg a day of food was unnecessary. On here you see lots of theads on ' why is my horse loosing weight', I think it takes a certain level of knowledge to stand back and realise there is a problem which can be too much food for the work being done or in this case to little just to maintain its daily needs. I like to think the person who pulled its mane perhaps had the best intentions, if it sold previously for £40, but ended up having neither the knowledge or the money to keep it.
		
Click to expand...



Ergo the horse has been NEGLECTED, and however you want to try and dress it up this mare's basic needs have not been met. Having no knowledge or basic knowledge of how to keep and care for a horse is no excuses for allowing the mare get into his state, ignorance is not an acceptable or valid excuse either in this forum or in the courts. And quite frankly if a horse was still losing so much weight even after reviewing and changing its diet, then a visit from the vet would be in order...not a trip to and dumping at an auction...


----------



## Hetsmum (12 August 2013)

Caledonia said:



			Sweeping generalisation much????

This mare was not bought for thousands. Her trainer wasn't rich, her owners were a syndicate that appeared to only own one horse and she went from the breeder directly to training. She has been out of racing for THREE years. 

Do you know what happens to every horse in other sports that don't make the grade? (and I don't mean gypsy cobs, they are just another section of the overbreeding).
		
Click to expand...

I was not speaking about this mare when I stated bought for thousands and sold for hundreds......I am not in possesion of the detals.  Maybe this is a generalisation and I'm sure other sports are also irresponsible in their 'castoffs'.    However just because someone else does something wrong does not make it ok for the racing industry to do the same.  Sorry I don't know about 'other sports' except endurance but I do know about racing having a few friends involved and living in the middle of a racing community.  A friend takes on ex-racers and is offered far more than she can take (usually one a fortnight) to turn into a 'normal' horses.  Nearly all these were to be shot.  She has worked in racing all her life - and loved it - but can't bear the waste.  I have another friend with a horse that was raced 70 times!  He is 15 and crippled.......what a surprise!  Sorry but I will never be a fan of racing - but each to their own.


----------



## Dab (12 August 2013)

Love racing or hate racing, love a coloured cob or not love a coloured cob, love showing or not love showing&#8230;it does not matter! The case at hand is that THIS horse has been neglected by its last owner and the responsibility for that neglect rests there&#8230;not with the racing industry&#8230;but with the last OWNER.

The whole Equine industry is up the &#8216;swanny&#8217; and most if not all disciplines contain some form of equine welfare failure. Responsibility for the care of horses lies with the individual who owns and cares for them and until people stop arguing the toss over loving or hating a particular aspect of the &#8216;equine industry&#8217; nothing will change. So next time you see an advert on some for sale site, saying Must go tomorrow, &#8216;free to a good home&#8217;, for sale due to lack of time or money or whatever&#8230;think on whether those individuals selling are really any better than the trainer finding a home for a retired race horse, because I can&#8217;t see the difference!


----------



## Hetsmum (12 August 2013)

^^^^^^^^^^Very true and well said ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


----------



## Amymay (12 August 2013)

honetpot said:



			I like to think the person who pulled its mane perhaps had the best intentions, if it sold previously for £40, but ended up having neither the knowledge or the money to keep it.
		
Click to expand...

Unfortunately not.  I can't say much more than that.  Other than their only intention was to make a quick buck.


----------



## Caledonia (12 August 2013)

Hetsmum said:



			I was not speaking about this mare when I stated bought for thousands and sold for hundreds......I am not in possesion of the detals.  Maybe this is a generalisation and I'm sure other sports are also irresponsible in their 'castoffs'.    However just because someone else does something wrong does not make it ok for the racing industry to do the same.  Sorry I don't know about 'other sports' except endurance but I do know about racing having a few friends involved and living in the middle of a racing community.  A friend takes on ex-racers and is offered far more than she can take (usually one a fortnight) to turn into a 'normal' horses.  Nearly all these were to be shot.  She has worked in racing all her life - and loved it - but can't bear the waste.  I have another friend with a horse that was raced 70 times!  He is 15 and crippled.......what a surprise!  Sorry but I will never be a fan of racing - but each to their own.
		
Click to expand...

So you haven't seen the waste in other sports because you don't know about it. Doesn't mean it doesn't go on, just means it's more successfully 'swept under the carpet' because there is no traceability. 

Dealers punt unwanted sports/riding/pet/badly bred horses all the time, with the dodgepots doping them up to sell, or shipping abroad to slaughter. Or plenty horses are sent to dealers so that the owner can 'trade up'. Why is that acceptable when racing trying to rehome, or at least taking the responsibility to euthanase if there are no homes is not?

How many sound event horses do you see at the end of their careers - how many sound endurance, or show jumpers?

I absolutely accept that racing has a case to answer, but no more than any other discipline. 

Agree totally with Dab.


----------



## Meowy Catkin (12 August 2013)

I don't know if anyone remembers Paris (Viuga)? She is now with Equine Market Watch and thriving (EMW are wonderful).

http://www.arabianlines.com/forum1/topic_new.asp?TOPIC_ID=38295&SearchTerms=paris,viuga

http://www.arabianlines.com/forum1/topic_new.asp?TOPIC_ID=51511


----------



## Amymay (12 August 2013)

Yes, she's doing so well and is so, so loved.


----------



## Meowy Catkin (12 August 2013)

Please let us know how Mrs G gets on AM and give my regards to your friend who is doing such a wonderful thing by taking her on.


----------



## Amymay (12 August 2013)

Faracat said:



			Please let us know how Mrs G gets on AM and give my regards to your friend who is doing such a wonderful thing by taking her on.
		
Click to expand...

Thanks Faracat.  I will indeed!


----------



## bonny (12 August 2013)

Was thinking about this mare this morning and just to play devils advocate does your friend know if she is actually rideable?
In the last 3 years, she must have been doing something and perhaps she was allowed to get into that state as she couldn't be a broodmare for whatever reason and is not suitable as a riding horse. Not that anything excuses the state she's in but I wonder if after 6 months we'll have another thread on here saying help, my horse is dangerous and a lot of people will advise she is pts. That's exactly the problem with some exracers, not good enough to breed from and there really isn't a market for 2 year old chestnut tb fillies that are tricky to ride.


----------



## Dab (12 August 2013)

bonny said:



			Was thinking about this mare this morning and just to play devils advocate does your friend know if she is actually rideable?
In the last 3 years, she must have been doing something and perhaps she was allowed to get into that state as she couldn't be a broodmare for whatever reason and is not suitable as a riding horse. Not that anything excuses the state she's in but I wonder if after 6 months we'll have another thread on here saying help, my horse is dangerous and a lot of people will advise she is pts. That's exactly the problem with some exracers, not good enough to breed from and there really isn't a market for 2 year old chestnut tb fillies that are tricky to ride.
		
Click to expand...

But surely only an underlying physical condition would make her unsuitable as a riding horse, and I am going to assume that the new owner (AmyMays friend) will get her checked over with a vet etc and if an underlying physical condition exists that prohibits ridden work then her longterm future will be re-assessed! That is what a responsible owner would do!


----------



## Amymay (12 August 2013)

bonny said:



			Was thinking about this mare this morning and just to play devils advocate does your friend know if she is actually rideable?
		
Click to expand...

It's immaterial.



Dab said:



			But surely only an underlying physical condition would make her unsuitable as a riding horse, and I am going to assume that the new owner (AmyMays friend) will get her checked over with a vet etc and if an underlying physical condition exists that prohibits ridden work then her longterm future will be re-assessed! That is what a responsible owner would do!
		
Click to expand...

Exactly.


----------



## pip6 (12 August 2013)

Caledonia said:



			How many sound event horses do you see at the end of their careers - how many sound endurance, or show jumpers?
		
Click to expand...

Actually it's usual for endurance horse to have long careers & retire sound. Also i the UK most endurance riders only have one or two horses, there are larger stables but they aren't the norm. As such, a person tends to keep the horse for the whole of its endurance career, ten into retirement. A few weeks ago I saw an endurance horse aged 31, still fit & sound, loving life with his adoring owner. Raced until his mid-twenties, then did graded rides until he was 30, would have been out this year but the rides he was entered into were cancelled due to the weather. Wouldn't be surprised if he did some rides next year. Sire of my horse competed (& got good placings) in 100 miles race rides aged 19, lived to his late 20's very much loved. It isn't a money sport in the UK like it is in the arab states, so as such horses aren't treated as commodities.


----------



## pip6 (12 August 2013)

All the best with this mare.


----------



## One More (12 August 2013)

I took on a TB (ex-racer) in a similar state to the mare pictured earlier this year, a few months down the line and he is working really nicely and has developed into a cracking little horse. He looks so much better for the weight gain and a bit of love, seems happier, and it's lovely to see his personality growing. Wishing your friend the best of luck, the mare is lucky to have found them!


----------



## Caledonia (12 August 2013)

pip6 said:



			Actually it's usual for endurance horse to have long careers & retire sound. Also i the UK most endurance riders only have one or two horses, there are larger stables but they aren't the norm. As such, a person tends to keep the horse for the whole of its endurance career, ten into retirement. A few weeks ago I saw an endurance horse aged 31, still fit & sound, loving life with his adoring owner. Raced until his mid-twenties, then did graded rides until he was 30, would have been out this year but the rides he was entered into were cancelled due to the weather. Wouldn't be surprised if he did some rides next year. Sire of my horse competed (& got good placings) in 100 miles race rides aged 19, lived to his late 20's very much loved. It isn't a money sport in the UK like it is in the arab states, so as such horses aren't treated as commodities.
		
Click to expand...

Given the drugs scandal at top level within endurance, it's no different to any other sport. You could pick and choose small owner breeders in racing that are exactly the same as you describe, horses kept to hunt and hack after their racing career is over.


----------



## Hetsmum (12 August 2013)

Caledonia said:



			Given the drugs scandal at top level within endurance, it's no different to any other sport. You could pick and choose small owner breeders in racing that are exactly the same as you describe, horses kept to hunt and hack after their racing career is over.
		
Click to expand...

Actually Endurance *In this country* is propably the cleanest Equestrian sport there is.  And I have been involved in this...riders pride themselves on the welfare of the horses and the fact that it is a clean sport.  The Middle East however is a totally different story.....
Many many endurance horses compete into their 20's and my friend also had one competing at 30 years old.
Pip is quite correct.


----------



## Caledonia (12 August 2013)

Hetsmum said:



			Actually Endurance *In this country* is propably the cleanest Equestrian sport there is.  And I have been involved in this...riders pride themselves on the welfare of the horses and the fact that it is a clean sport.  The Middle East however is a totally different story.....
Many many endurance horses compete into their 20's and my friend also had one competing at 30 years old.
Pip is quite correct.
		
Click to expand...

So if you can pick and choose sections of your sport, you can do the same with racing. 

Look, i'm not trying to knock anyone else, I think horses should do a job and be fairly treated and ALL breeding should be heftily policed and licensed. But until there is acceptance that all sports at some level have culpability, NOTHING will change. 

It's so easy to say racing is responsible for all the unwanted horses, when they are a small proportion of that number.


----------



## Dab (12 August 2013)

You see that's my problem, i'm not so sure that it is the sports/disciplines that should be culpable....it's the people that take part in the sport and the individual OWNERS...from the race horse syndicate to your happy hacker, and until people are willing to understand and accept that we are ALL responsible and play a part in the current equine crisis, instead of fobbing it off onto 'authorities', charities or big money owners, nothing will change.

And make no mistake the last OWNER of Mrs G is responsible for her horrendous neglect....not the racing industry!


----------



## honetpot (12 August 2013)

amymay said:



			Unfortunately not.  I can't say much more than that.  Other than their only intention was to make a quick buck.
		
Click to expand...

 I do not think the last vender of this horse will have made a quick buck, and if they did it would not have been much.
Costs; travel to sale, even if they had their own diesel costs. Sale entry £10 -20  plus % sellers premium on sale price + 20% VAT , they would not see that much of the £100.
 Having seen the scathing attitude to people who have wanted to PTS their equines on her for any reason, although it has got better recently, I could understand why someone would take the 'easy way' out and get someone to take to the sale, and then they can go home and forget about it. The cheapest disposal cost is at least £80 by the hunt kennels.
 Ignorance is no defence in law but there are loads of people who make mistakes with horses, there is one on here ATM about being over horsed, owning a competition bred horses leaves less margin for error.


----------



## Dab (12 August 2013)

honetpot said:



			I do not think the last vender of this horse will have made a quick buck, and if they did it would not have been much.
Costs; travel to sale, even if they had their own diesel costs. Sale entry £10 -20  plus % sellers premium on sale price + 20% VAT , they would not see that much of the £100.
 Having seen the scathing attitude to people who have wanted to PTS their equines on her for any reason, although it has got better recently, I could understand why someone would take the 'easy way' out and get someone to take to the sale, and then they can go home and forget about it. The cheapest disposal cost is at least £80 by the hunt kennels.
 Ignorance is no defence in law but there are loads of people who make mistakes with horses, there is one on here ATM about being over horsed, owning a competition bred horses leaves less margin for error.
		
Click to expand...

 
Whether he made a quick buck or not is totally irrelevant, the poor mare should NEVER have been allowed to get into this state and what is even worse is the fact that people have such a skewed moral compass and would rather take the &#8216;easy option&#8217;. If they take a (problem/old/lame) horse to a sale or fob it off onto somebody then they are potentially adding to the welfare crisis, instead people need to take full responsibility and make sure that the horse has the most secure future possible &#8211; even if that means PTS.

Everyone at one time or another in their equine careers makes a mistake with a horse, but it is how you deal with the problem and issue that is the differentiator. For anyone that remembers the Boris case, I seem to recall that the owner did not have years of experience but what I do recall is she made sure that she secured a future for Boris rather than just push him back to the dealer or fob him off onto someone else.


----------



## montysmum1 (12 August 2013)

Dab said:



			You see that's my problem, i'm not so sure that it is the sports/disciplines that should be culpable....it's the people that take part in the sport and the individual OWNERS...from the race horse syndicate to your happy hacker, and until people are willing to understand and accept that we are ALL responsible and play a part in the current equine crisis, instead of fobbing it off onto 'authorities', charities or big money owners, nothing will change.

And make no mistake the last OWNER of Mrs G is responsible for her horrendous neglect....not the racing industry!
		
Click to expand...

Well said, I know a lot of people in the racing industry who care for and about their horses for the whole of their lives, not just their racing career, and likewise, I know of horses in private yards who are left in a similar state to Mrs G. IMO you can't tar an entire industry with one brush


----------



## Cobs Can Jump (12 August 2013)

That's awful  how could anyone be so cruel to let a horse become that much underweight and in poor condition  Poor thing


----------



## Caledonia (12 August 2013)

Dab said:



			You see that's my problem, i'm not so sure that it is the sports/disciplines that should be culpable....it's the people that take part in the sport and the individual OWNERS...from the race horse syndicate to your happy hacker, and until people are willing to understand and accept that we are ALL responsible and play a part in the current equine crisis, instead of fobbing it off onto 'authorities', charities or big money owners, nothing will change.

And make no mistake the last OWNER of Mrs G is responsible for her horrendous neglect....not the racing industry!
		
Click to expand...

You're right, of course. I just think that there should be a Wetherbys' style database for EVERY horse, so that there is accountability and traceability. I can dream.


----------



## Hetsmum (22 October 2013)

Amymay - I keep wondering about Mrs G and how she is doing.  Do you have an update at all?


----------



## Amymay (22 October 2013)

Hi. She is still undergoing extensive veterinary treatment. And whilst she is improved she doesn't thrive.


----------



## Hetsmum (22 October 2013)

amymay said:



			Hi. She is still undergoing extensive veterinary treatment. And whilst she is improved she doesn't thrive.
		
Click to expand...

Thanks for that.  Such a shame - I was really hoping for a great outcome but I guess it is still early days. Thank goodness for your friend...and all the others out there who don't give up x


----------



## Amymay (22 October 2013)

Yes she's been so lucky in finding such a wonderful home. I'm not sure what the future holds for her in terms of length.  But she's had and continues to have the best of everything.


----------



## babymare (22 October 2013)

What ever the long term future now she is cared for and loved. Thats what matters x


----------



## zigzag (14 April 2014)

How is this mare now?


----------



## Amaranta (15 April 2014)

Not good news I'm afraid.

It seems that the worm damage is too great, she is on borrowed time.  Mrs G has dropped weight dramatically since coming off the meds (they cannot be given long term).

The owner is distraught but she has done all she can and will do the right thing, as always.


----------



## millikins (15 April 2014)

So sad after all their efforts.


----------



## Hetsmum (15 April 2014)

How very sad. I was really hoping for some good news.  Such an unnecessary waste and so very upsetting for the people who have tried so hard for her.x


----------

