# ** thoughts on Andalusian horses **



## Alexrouse1 (6 August 2017)

Hi I'm looking to buy an Andalusian horse for dressage and was just wondering what pros and cons there are to owning one and people's opinions of them in general ( dressage, temperament etc .) I am looking for a gelding or stallion. I am 13 yeas old and have been riding for 10 years and am probably looking to make it up to elementary British dressage . Thanks in advance


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## rifruffian (6 August 2017)

are your parents on board with this good idea ? What do they think about andalusians ? Do you have the right facilities to secure and maintain a stallion...?


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## Shay (7 August 2017)

Stallions present particular complexities and keeping and competing.  You would be far better off with a gelding.  I know Andalusians look lovely buy if you are looking for something for dressage why not aim for something which is bred and trained for that rather than a specific breed?  Dressage horses are expensive enough anyway - there is no point in adding to it with the additional price tag of a pure bred.


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## be positive (7 August 2017)

Shay said:



			Stallions present particular complexities and keeping and competing.  You would be far better off with a gelding.  I know Andalusians look lovely buy if you are looking for something for dressage why not aim for something which is bred and trained for that rather than a specific breed?  Dressage horses are expensive enough anyway - there is no point in adding to it with the additional price tag of a pure bred.
		
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I would also add that at 13 you should not be restricting yourself too much, buy something you can have fun on, that does a bit of everything, any breed or type can do BD elem, so find a horse you like, that you can enjoy riding, I would avoid stallions as you will find there are too many drawbacks with owning one and not many benefits.


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## Equi (7 August 2017)

I don't think they are brilliant for dressage. Anyone I know with one has soundness problems with them but not sure if that's breed related or work related (considering they generally have the same work type of old classical work and Spanish work)


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## Spanny (7 August 2017)

I like them a lot, but I would be wary of having a stallion for the above reasons, especially if you don't have your own land. It's also worth keeping in mind that stallions can be tricky to sell as not many people have the facilities to keep them.

Spanish horses are generally very good at the collected work but can struggle with extension. I think that some judges mark them down as what might be a very good extension for that particular horse might not be especially impressive compared to e.g. a warm blood type. You might find you would be making it harder for yourself to move up the levels/get the really big marks because of that. 

I've also found that quite a number of the different ones that I've known/ridden don't move entirely straight (usually dishing, but there was another that plaited), so if you do go ahead look carefully at the movement.


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## Nasicus (7 August 2017)

You say you've ridden for 10 years, have you ever owned a horse before?


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## Antw23uk (7 August 2017)

Guys I dont think you need to take this thread too seriously. The OP is 13 .. this is just day dreaming (which of course is allowed but come on, seriously!)


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## DappleDown (7 August 2017)

Firstly, well done for asking questions.

Many of the above posts have valid points about support, land etc.

I would avoid a stallion, can I ask why you are considering one?

Don't restrict your self to one breed. Draw up a short list of preferred breeds, then with an experienced knowledgeable adult look at those within your (parents?) budget. Look for a horse you feel you can bond with, trust, and that will go nicely for you. Try not to fall in love with the first one you see.

And keep asking lots of questions!

Best wishes.


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## be positive (7 August 2017)

Antw23uk said:



			Guys I dont think you need to take this thread too seriously. The OP is 13 .. this is just day dreaming (which of course is allowed but come on, seriously!)
		
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She may just be day dreaming but can still be treated sensibly and given answers that may help if and when she does get the opportunity to buy a horse, if a few more people asked for advice before purchasing their first horse they may be better prepared to avoid some of the pitfalls such as buying a barely broken 11 year old and all the drama that has gone on in the threads about that ongoing saga.


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## Nici (7 August 2017)

I ride an Andalusian stallion when I travel to Spain. He is wonderful and has a lovely character, but he has been trained to a high level by professionals before I started to ride him. 
Perhaps look into older stallions that have some training behind them. The one I ride is 16 years old and is absolutely healthy.
Other considerations are their manes and tails, both very long and very thick. If you like that and don't mind detangling knots, that's the breed for you.


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## Alexrouse1 (7 August 2017)

Nasicus said:



			You say you've ridden for 10 years, have you ever owned a horse before?
		
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Yes, I have owned a horses before a gelding, 2 mares and a stallion at the present


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## Alexrouse1 (7 August 2017)

Antw23uk said:



			Guys I dont think you need to take this thread too seriously. The OP is 13 .. this is just day dreaming (which of course is allowed but come on, seriously!)
		
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I'm not sure that it's daydreaming, I'm going to try a stallion next week


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## hihosilver (7 August 2017)

I smell a troll here!!


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## Antw23uk (7 August 2017)

hihosilver said:



			I smell a troll here!!
		
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No no, let them all carry on. You and I can sit back and watch the fun


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## Alexrouse1 (7 August 2017)

Antw23uk said:



			No no, let them all carry on. You and I can sit back and watch the fun 

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I'm not sure I quite understand


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## Floxie (7 August 2017)

Alexrouse1 said:



			I'm not sure I quite understand
		
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They're saying in a roundabout way that they don't believe you.


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## Alexrouse1 (7 August 2017)

Floxie said:



			They're saying in a roundabout way that they don't believe you.
		
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Ahhh ok thanks, I'm not sure I need these kind of unhelpful comments as I was only looking for information on the breed as I am looking to buy one so no need for these kind of useless comments. And when did they become qualified to judge my circumstances, ability and what I'm looking for.


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## Chinchilla (7 August 2017)

As a mare owner I can honestly say having a stallion around would piss the hell out of me. 
Makes it hard for people around you, I imagine especially so at a livery yard. 

But hey if you have your own land go for it?

Out of interest why not get a mare? They are wonderful! Some can be mareish but if you put the work in and take the time to forge a bond you have a partner who will work to the death for you. (Unless they're in season, which can be a pain with some female equines, so it's worth asking about that when you go to view a horse - ask to see their feed room, if there's a supplement geared towards calming mareish mares you can guess the horse is a pain, regardless of what the owner says).


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## Casey76 (7 August 2017)

Unless you have your own place, or a special set up at livery, life for a stallion can be very restrictive.  If you really want to ride an entire, get a mare!

Secondly, if you really want to do well in competitive dressage (and not just schooling or say classical dressage) then a PRE or PSL will probably struggle more to get good marks than a more "standard" breed.  Because they have a tendency to be short coupled, they find collection very easy, but conversely extension quite difficult (their forelegs tend to go up and down a lot rather than stretch out from the shoulder - similar to a harness bred Sec D), and in BD the extension comes before the collection.

You should check the breeding quite carefully, as some lines are very sharp - especially the PSL which are bred to be bull fighters.


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## Nasicus (7 August 2017)

When you say you own, do you mean YOU own, or your parents own and you help with?


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## Chinchilla (7 August 2017)

Casey76 said:



			Unless you have your own place, or a special set up at livery, life for a stallion can be very restrictive.  If you really want to ride an entire, get a mare!

Secondly, if you really want to do well in competitive dressage (and not just schooling or say classical dressage) then a PRE or PSL will probably struggle more to get good marks than a more "standard" breed.  Because they have a tendency to be short coupled, they find collection very easy, but conversely extension quite difficult (their forelegs tend to go up and down a lot rather than stretch out from the shoulder - similar to a harness bred Sec D), and in BD the extension comes before the collection.

You should check the breeding quite carefully, as some lines are very sharp - especially the PSL which are bred to be bull fighters.
		
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Casey76 this is COMPLETELY unrelated (sorry OP!) but I love Merens horses. (Not sure how to get the accent, sorry about that). They are stunning!


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## Alexrouse1 (7 August 2017)

Casey76 said:



			Unless you have your own place, or a special set up at livery, life for a stallion can be very restrictive.  If you really want to ride an entire, get a mare!

Secondly, if you really want to do well in competitive dressage (and not just schooling or say classical dressage) then a PRE or PSL will probably struggle more to get good marks than a more "standard" breed.  Because they have a tendency to be short coupled, they find collection very easy, but conversely extension quite difficult (their forelegs tend to go up and down a lot rather than stretch out from the shoulder - similar to a harness bred Sec D), and in BD the extension comes before the collection.

You should check the breeding quite carefully, as some lines are very sharp - especially the PSL which are bred to be bull fighters.
		
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Thank you all for the helpful information! I do have my own facilities at my own yard to keep a stallion. A mare might be an option but I'm not exactly taken by them. I would only be looking for a horse to take me to elementary- medium British dressage so I would probably be looking for a new horse in the next 4-5 years anyway and it would probably end up being a warmblood or something like that, I'm not saying that horses are disposable or anything like that! But certain horses can only take you so far.


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## Alexrouse1 (7 August 2017)

Nasicus said:



			When you say you own, do you mean YOU own, or your parents own and you help with?
		
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Well my parents are the least "horsey" people you could know so they own the facilities but I clean - deal with most of it by myself but it's not a 13 year old doing everything as we live just down the road from a top end  ex BE competitor who now has her own yard just down the road who helps out and our nexdoor neighbor is a vet who comes and looks at the horses often.


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## sunnyone (7 August 2017)

OP you need to be very careful about buying an Andalusian if it has come from Spain, rather than bred in the UK or even France.

Stallions in Spain are simply horses that have not been gelded, yet. Some are lovely chaps but with poor conformation and you would not want to breed from these. However most Spanish men see riding a stallion as a reflection of their own masculinity, hence the colts become stallions. Stallions of real breeding quality are worth a lot of money.

Geldings on the other hand have often been left as stallions, but then displayed behavioural or mental health issues. It's either cut or shoot time and many then become rigs with attitude. Never buy a gelding from Spain without knowing when it was gelded and if it was after 2 years old walk away fast.

Mares tend to have an easier life as no Spanish man really wants to be seen out riding one if he is not schooling it for a female friend.

i suggest you bide your time and find a capable UK horse.


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## Alexrouse1 (7 August 2017)

sunnyone said:



			OP you need to be very careful about buying an Andalusian if it has come from Spain, rather than bred in the UK or even France.

Stallions in Spain are simply horses that have not been gelded, yet. Some are lovely chaps but with poor conformation and you would not want to breed from these. However most Spanish men see riding a stallion as a reflection of their own masculinity, hence the colts become stallions. Stallions of real breeding quality are worth a lot of money.

Geldings on the other hand have often been left as stallions, but then displayed behavioural or mental health issues. It's either cut or shoot time and many then become rigs with attitude. Never buy a gelding from Spain without knowing when it was gelded and if it was after 2 years old walk away fast.

Mares tend to have an easier life as no Spanish man really wants to be seen out riding one if he is not schooling it for a female friend.

i suggest you bide your time and find a capable UK horse.
		
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Thank you. I would not be planning on importing one but that you for spending time writing this


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## mariew (7 August 2017)

Am i reading it right this would mean you'd have two stallions on the same yard? How would you handle them trying/wanting to kill each other? I think you really need to know what you are doing, and have the physical strength to be able to deal with them. Spanish horses are sensitive creatures.

Aside from that i think there are many horses that would take you far, a lot of horses and ponies, should easily be able to take you to medium/elementary, you shouldn't have to go abroad to unknown territory for that.  Echo the ones who say to look at home.


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## be positive (7 August 2017)

Alexrouse1 said:



			Well my parents are the least "horsey" people you could know so they own the facilities but I clean - deal with most of it by myself but it's not a 13 year old doing everything as we live just down the road from a top end  ex BE competitor who now has her own yard just down the road who helps out and our nexdoor neighbor is a vet who comes and looks at the horses often. 

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Well you are lucky to have two people to help you find the right horse whatever breed it is, I would expect the event rider to have plenty of experience to go with you and check them out, please don't underestimate how much more effort a stallion will require from the day to day management point of view, you will be at school all day, your parents are not experienced so what happens if something goes wrong and they need to deal with him, a stallion getting loose is going to cause havoc and I don't imagine your parents being able to cope on their own.


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## Apercrumbie (7 August 2017)

How does your current set up with a stallion and a mare work? I would be very wary of introducing another stallion into the vicinity. 

In terms of the Andalusian question, as others have said they tend to struggle with British Dressage as we are more disposed to extension than collection. That said, if that doesn't bother you then it is wonderful to learn collection on a well-trained Andalusian. They are very intelligent animals (mine used to play tag properly - first I would be "it" and once I'd caught him, he would gently be "it" and we would keep swapping - and would also play dead) and get bored very easily, often leaving you with a boisterous horse unless you're a good handler.


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## Alexrouse1 (7 August 2017)

mariew said:



			Am i reading it right this would mean you'd have two stallions on the same yard? How would you handle them trying/wanting to kill each other? I think you really need to know what you are doing, and have the physical strength to be able to deal with them. Spanish horses are sensitive creatures.

Aside from that i think there are many horses that would take you far, a lot of horses and ponies, should easily be able to take you to medium/elementary, you shouldn't have to go abroad to unknown territory for that.  Echo the ones who say to look at home.
		
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No we wouldn't be keeping two stallions in the same yard  we aren't trying to get someone killed. We are going to sell our stallion so there wouldn't be two of them together. But thank you for your concern


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## Mule (7 August 2017)

Posted twice


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## Mule (7 August 2017)

It's really not necessary to have a particular breed for any level of dressage. Once a horse is sound and trainable with strong hindquarters it will be physically and mentally capable of dressage at any level.
The key is the is the competence of the rider/ trainer.

I'd look for something with a good mind/ trainable and good conformation. Mabey ask your eventer neighbour to help. Good luck with it


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## Seville (7 August 2017)

I am the proud owner of a PRE. 
'Andalusian' now refers to any horse of Spanish parents but unregistered and breeding unknown.
I imported mine last Autumn. He is late cut gelding, with the temperament of a saint. He is really nicely put together, with the 'stallion look' but he is Baroque, as opposed to the sport horse type more commonly bought for UK dressage. In the few months I have had the pleasure of owning him his walk has developed to have an over track and his trot has gone from "hackney" to long and swinging.
He is however, very sensitive as are most PREs, and while I have no wish to offend you, OP, while I am certain you work hard toward your goal and running your yard, at 13 its a little early in your dressage career to be picking a particular breed that can have issues, while getting the best possible grounding, and learning as much as you can should take precedence. You are already doing well, now develop what you can, expand yourself with your present horses, and stick at it!! When you are twenty and STILL want to do this, the world will be your oyster! Good luck.


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## Farma (7 August 2017)

Have you ever ridden one? perhaps a few lessons on some before you decide they are for you>>?


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## Clava (7 August 2017)

My sister imported an Andalusian stallion when I was about 14/15, I used to ride him. Keeping a stallion was a nightmare though and not much fun for him I think in the end.

Now I'm in my 50s and love dressage, but I woudn't be rushing to get one of them, give me a pony with lovely paces and sense of fun any day. They often dish and it is quite hard to find a straight gaited one.


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## tallyho! (7 August 2017)

OP if you are indeed serious... 

Please look up GBPRE and BAPSH first before you import or buy from the UK. 

There are very strict rules regarding PRE and BAPSH are the legal body in the UK for ANNCE if you want a PRE Stallion to breed from (!).

Andalusians really only refers to unregistered horses, so if you want unregistered horses then this is what you would look for. 

PSL's are not in any way shape or form PRE's legally speaking. PSL is PURA SANGRE LUSITANO which is a Portuguese breed, not Spanish and you need to go to the Lusitano Breed Society for registrations. 

The old adage, look before you leap - although perhaps not on HHO whereby judging by these posts here, very few know anything about either breed.

ETA: The Spanish & Portuguese horses are probably the original "dressage" horse. What you see in competition nowadays may be getting the modern marks but it's very untrue to say that "Andalusians can't do dressage" - and yes they CAN extend - it's about the training, nothing to do with the breed. Next thing people will be spouting nonsense such as they can't jump!


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## Abi90 (7 August 2017)

I've known many PREs and they've mostly been level headed and well mannered, even the ones imported from Spain (including one that had been used for bullfighting and was covered in scars, was a nice person albeit terrified of men but he did come round). I've known once that have done dressage, some that have hunted and several even went on to low level event. Yes, some are hot headed and sensitive but I have an IDx that's hot headed and sensitive. Some are very easy and sensible. Like any breed they are all individuals. However I would not limit yourself to one and I would definitely steer away from a stallion to make your life easier.


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## oldie48 (7 August 2017)

If you only expect to ride to elementary level then any breed, mare, gelding or stallion will get you there with proper training. why give yourself the restrictions of having a stallion if it's only going to compete at such a low level. with regard to PREs, well they float some people's boat but tbh I think they start to show their talent at the higher levels when collection is more important as their basic and extended  paces can be a bit disappointing.


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## Apercrumbie (7 August 2017)

tallyho! said:



			The old adage, look before you leap - although perhaps not on HHO whereby judging by these posts here, very few know anything about either breed.

ETA: The Spanish & Portuguese horses are probably the original "dressage" horse. What you see in competition nowadays may be getting the modern marks but it's very untrue to say that "Andalusians can't do dressage" - and yes they CAN extend - it's about the training, nothing to do with the breed. Next thing people will be spouting nonsense such as they can't jump!
		
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To be fair, posters were saying this in the context of British Dressage which prioritises extension before collection - even at low levels you are asked to show extended strides but never collected strides. In this context, a horse that finds extension harder is likely to be marked lower than a horse who finds it easy. Were the system different, the result would be different. I don't think it's nonsense to say that Andalusians/PREs find collection harder than extension. Yes you can train them to improve it, but if a poster asks us about our opinions on the suitability of a breed for modern dressage then it is hardly surprising that this natural trait is mentioned. Andalusians/PREs can be fabulous horses, can be schooled to an extremely high level but their natural action is not prioritised for dressage.


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## Micropony (7 August 2017)

You say you are likely to want to sell in a few years, so I would join others in advising against a stallion for that reason. The only people I've known to sell ridden stallions have ended up needing to geld first because nobody wanted them as entires, and that can be expensive and risky with a mature horse.

You don't say why you are drawn to this particular breed? I have only ridden a couple and found them quite different from what I was used to. Not sure I would be rushing out to buy one tbh, although all horses are individuals so I would never rule any breed totally out. And I know lots of people who wouldn't choose to have anything else. Just depends what you like.

As others have also said, it's not necessary to look for a particular breed of horse for what you're looking to do. I would have thought you'd be better off focusing on finding something sound, nicely put together that moves well and has a really great temperament. Goodness knows that can be hard enough to find without restricting yourself to a minority breed where there's so much less to choose from.


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## tallyho! (8 August 2017)

apercrumbie said:



			To be fair, posters were saying this in the context of British Dressage which prioritises extension before collection - even at low levels you are asked to show extended strides but never collected strides. In this context, a horse that finds extension harder is likely to be marked lower than a horse who finds it easy. Were the system different, the result would be different. I don't think it's nonsense to say that Andalusians/PREs find collection harder than extension. Yes you can train them to improve it, but if a poster asks us about our opinions on the suitability of a breed for modern dressage then it is hardly surprising that this natural trait is mentioned. Andalusians/PREs can be fabulous horses, can be schooled to an extremely high level but their natural action is not prioritised for dressage.
		
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So was I if you read my post correctly - you are wrong though about extension -if anything iberians "generally" find it EASIER to collect and harder to extend. That though is a myth... have you been to a breed show?

Their natural action IS prioritised for true dressage.


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## tristar (8 August 2017)

well i must say i think you have good taste i horses

the advice i would give if you do follow your dream, is to realize from day one that you need to ride like a spanish rider, ie. look at and try to see how they sit and ride and copy them, too much english dressage pushy riding may not suit a spanish horse.

you will need lots of patience and time riding very quietly and in a thinking way to form a partnership and to get your spanish horse fit for purpose, and get him to a place where he will do the work and you can just sit there and enjoy, that is my take on the spanish horse.

if you can truly get into riding well on a spanish horse it could just be the best thing ever for your skill as a rider.

they can teach you so much, and they compete at the top level no one can deny them that, and thrill spectators in a way that the warmbloods can`t, they touch peoples hearts with their sheer beauty and brilliance.

whatever gender you might pick, no one can make that choice for you,best of luck.xx


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## Hallo2012 (8 August 2017)

Diva&Rosie'sMum said:



			As a mare owner I can honestly say having a stallion around would piss the hell out of me. 
Makes it hard for people around you, I imagine especially so at a livery yard. 

But hey if you have your own land go for it?

Out of interest why not get a mare? They are wonderful! Some can be mareish but if you put the work in and take the time to forge a bond you have a partner who will work to the death for you. (Unless they're in season, which can be a pain with some female equines, so it's worth asking about that when you go to view a horse - ask to see their feed room, if there's a supplement geared towards calming mareish mares you can guess the horse is a pain, regardless of what the owner says).
		
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and as the owner of a stallion your attitude stinks.

ive trained my boy not to misbehave, to keep his brain between his ears and concentrate on me.................you can just do the same with your mare 

i dont like mares for my own horses and dont enjoy training them, i much prefer geldings and stallions....my choice.

and as for the comment that having 2 stallions together is a death wish.......also not true. I teach a young girl who has 4 stallions and 1 mare on the same yard with zero problems. Boys are fine together in general as long as you dont put them in a situation where they can fight over a girl.

none of that is really relevant to the OP, the hysterical attitude to testicles just drives me up the wall!


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## Apercrumbie (8 August 2017)

tallyho! said:



			So was I if you read my post correctly - you are wrong though about extension -if anything iberians "generally" find it EASIER to collect and harder to extend. That though is a myth... have you been to a breed show?

Their natural action IS prioritised for true dressage.
		
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Sorry I meant to write what you said - that they find collection easier than extension - brain getting my words mixed up. I'm still not sure by what you mean for "true dressage" though. Do you mean the more classical school of training? Are we wrong that the current British system prioritises extension over collection? 

As a side note, I've often thought this was wrong as both abilities are required for a well-balanced horse.


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## noblesteed (8 August 2017)

I have an andalusian x connemara and he's a very nice mixture! 
He's sharp and needs his brain stimulated otherwise he's a handful, but he's very nice. He's brave and friendly and very beautiful. In his younger days he did dressage and could have gone a lot further than I was capable of, but he much preferred sj and xc! He can seriously jump.

My advice regarding andalusians is to be VERY careful with grazing as it's commonplace for andalusians to get laminitis in the UK. Our grass is utter unsuitable for them. They are bred to live on scrub and straw not lush grass. They have sensitive tummies too - mine can't handle haylage at all and I believe the behaviour problems I initially had with him were largely due to unsuitable diet. Once that was sorted he settled right down.


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## Equi (8 August 2017)

What's the age limits for stallion handling in shows though?


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## Hallo2012 (8 August 2017)

BD there is no age limit, kids ride pony stallions all the time.


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## Leo Walker (8 August 2017)

Hallo2012 said:



			and as the owner of a stallion your attitude stinks.

ive trained my boy not to misbehave, to keep his brain between his ears and concentrate on me.................you can just do the same with your mare 

i dont like mares for my own horses and dont enjoy training them, i much prefer geldings and stallions....my choice.

and as for the comment that having 2 stallions together is a death wish.......also not true. I teach a young girl who has 4 stallions and 1 mare on the same yard with zero problems. Boys are fine together in general as long as you dont put them in a situation where they can fight over a girl.

none of that is really relevant to the OP, the hysterical attitude to testicles just drives me up the wall!
		
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I'm glad you said that. Stallions tend to be demonised unfairly. 

OP you might want to change your user name. It took me 30 seconds to find a fair bit of information about you, and at 13, you need to be a bit smarter with your internet use.

Are none of your current horses suitable? Your grey looks to be a lovely horse. Why do you want a PRE? It might be that lots of horses will fill your criteria without the sharpness and hang ups that some PREs come with.


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## Alexrouse1 (8 August 2017)

Hallo2012 said:



			and as the owner of a stallion your attitude stinks.

ive trained my boy not to misbehave, to keep his brain between his ears and concentrate on me.................you can just do the same with your mare 

i dont like mares for my own horses and dont enjoy training them, i much prefer geldings and stallions....my choice.

and as for the comment that having 2 stallions together is a death wish.......also not true. I teach a young girl who has 4 stallions and 1 mare on the same yard with zero problems. Boys are fine together in general as long as you dont put them in a situation where they can fight over a girl.

none of that is really relevant to the OP, the hysterical attitude to testicles just drives me up the wall!
		
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Yeah I agree I don't understand why people are so against stallions as long as they are trained properly and learn to focus on the handler. I'm sorry for saying that multiple stallions couldn't go together I always thought it would be a testosterone battle but you probably have 10 X the experience with multiple stallions in one space than I do. Thank you


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## Alexrouse1 (8 August 2017)

Leo Walker said:



			I'm glad you said that. Stallions tend to be demonised unfairly. 

OP you might want to change your user name. It took me 30 seconds to find a fair bit of information about you, and at 13, you need to be a bit smarter with your internet use.

Are none of your current horses suitable? Your grey looks to be a lovely horse. Why do you want a PRE? It might be that lots of horses will fill your criteria without the sharpness and hang ups that some PREs come with.
		
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My ideal horse is a PRE because when you walk into a warm up ring your horse doesn't look the same as the average warmblood. They have a certain presence when they are in a room, I love the way they move and always have done ( i have wanted a PRE Andalusian since I was about 3) I like how they have history about being cavalry horses and bullfighters. They are a breed of horse that beauty is not only skin deep in them they have beautiful minds and personalities as well, This is why I would love to have an Andalusian horse


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## MDB (8 August 2017)

Hallo2012 said:



			and as the owner of a stallion your attitude stinks.

ive trained my boy not to misbehave, to keep his brain between his ears and concentrate on me.................you can just do the same with your mare 

i dont like mares for my own horses and dont enjoy training them, i much prefer geldings and stallions....my choice.

and as for the comment that having 2 stallions together is a death wish.......also not true. I teach a young girl who has 4 stallions and 1 mare on the same yard with zero problems. Boys are fine together in general as long as you dont put them in a situation where they can fight over a girl.

none of that is really relevant to the OP, the hysterical attitude to testicles just drives me up the wall!
		
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Here is my part of Spain there are few geldings. Most male horses are stallions. Now, I will be the first to admit that the Spanish can be quite rough in the way they handle their horses... but, I have been at horse fairs where there are stallions everywhere, tied up, being ridden together, transported together. We are talking hundreds of horses.. mares, geldings, stallions, foals. Never once seen a scene caused by a stallion. I have friends who have stallions and I have hacked with them. Their stallion was impeccably behaved. I think a lot of it is training and exposing them to situations. Like with any other horse. If you keep a stallion isolated from other horses and mares, then sure, on the occasion where you do come across other horses, it may well go a bit crazy.


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## mariew (8 August 2017)

and as for the comment that having 2 stallions together is a death wish.......also not true. I teach a young girl who has 4 stallions and 1 mare on the same yard with zero problems. Boys are fine together in general as long as you dont put them in a situation where they can fight over a girl.
--------
That was me - but you misread the post, i didn't say it was a deathwish, it was a practicality comment from experience with very well trained stallions and experienced handlers, i said what would you do if two stallions decided to go for each other, knowing that the OP is 13, and doesn't always have adults on yard (correct me if i'm wrong). 

OP i think you seem very sensible and experienced for your age, and i know this sounds patronising, it really isn't meant to be, but you are only 13, don't go for a PRE stallion right now, gelding by all means, they still come with heaps of presence. There are so many other options, hold fire for a few more years.  I totally get why you like them, i love them too, for their presence, sensitivity and agility.  I hope you find what you are looking for!


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## Chinchilla (8 August 2017)

Hallo2012 said:



			and as the owner of a stallion your attitude stinks.

ive trained my boy not to misbehave, to keep his brain between his ears and concentrate on me.................you can just do the same with your mare 

i dont like mares for my own horses and dont enjoy training them, i much prefer geldings and stallions....my choice.

and as for the comment that having 2 stallions together is a death wish.......also not true. I teach a young girl who has 4 stallions and 1 mare on the same yard with zero problems. Boys are fine together in general as long as you dont put them in a situation where they can fight over a girl.

none of that is really relevant to the OP, the hysterical attitude to testicles just drives me up the wall!
		
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My attitude doesn't stink - the only stallion I've tried to ride/work my horses around was a complete *******, made doing anything with my girls impossible, the owner specifically requested that i stop lunging so she could ride past(!), in fairness I think it was young but rider could not control it properly, and if OP is really 13 surely they won't be able to either? Particularly a big fit dressage stallion??


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## Auslander (8 August 2017)

Diva&Rosie'sMum said:



			My attitude doesn't stink - the only stallion I've tried to ride/work my horses around was a complete *******, made doing anything with my girls impossible, the owner specifically requested that i stop lunging so she could ride past(!), in fairness I think it was young but rider could not control it properly, and if OP is really 13 surely they won't be able to either? Particularly a big fit dressage stallion??
		
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That was ONE stallion! You can't tar every single entire with the same brush, based on the behaviour of one. That was poor training/handling, rather than normal ridden stallion behaviour


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## Alexrouse1 (8 August 2017)

Diva&Rosie'sMum said:



			My attitude doesn't stink - the only stallion I've tried to ride/work my horses around was a complete *******, made doing anything with my girls impossible, the owner specifically requested that i stop lunging so she could ride past(!), in fairness I think it was young but rider could not control it properly, and if OP is really 13 surely they won't be able to either? Particularly a big fit dressage stallion??
		
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Look i did not start this thread to have my ability as a rider judged by people who have never met me. I will do my best to make sure that im able to control what ever horse I decide to buy in as many situations as possible. But you can't give all stallions bad press based on one stallion. True you get stallion that are better handled than others but I don't believe that any horse is born bad even stallions it the way they are brought up and treated. They don't need to be locked away and hiden from mares they need to be exposed to them so when they see a mare in a field or on a hack they don't go all hormonal but yet again this is down to how the horse is brought up and trained. So maybe the stallion you encountered was young or not as well handled on some others but don't go shaming people on their age and ability.


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## Alexrouse1 (8 August 2017)

mariew said:



			and as for the comment that having 2 stallions together is a death wish.......also not true. I teach a young girl who has 4 stallions and 1 mare on the same yard with zero problems. Boys are fine together in general as long as you dont put them in a situation where they can fight over a girl.
--------
That was me - but you misread the post, i didn't say it was a deathwish, it was a practicality comment from experience with very well trained stallions and experienced handlers, i said what would you do if two stallions decided to go for each other, knowing that the OP is 13, and doesn't always have adults on yard (correct me if i'm wrong). 

OP i think you seem very sensible and experienced for your age, and i know this sounds patronising, it really isn't meant to be, but you are only 13, don't go for a PRE stallion right now, gelding by all means, they still come with heaps of presence. There are so many other options, hold fire for a few more years.  I totally get why you like them, i love them too, for their presence, sensitivity and agility.  I hope you find what you are looking for!
		
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My family lives on site at my yard so there is always an adult on hand if needed. I understand what you are saying but I think that I will still try a few and if I find the right horse and it turns out to be a stallion I will buy it but only if it is right for me also my instructor and vet would have to look at it first and of course a 5 star vetting is necessary for any horse I may choose. As regards for if the stallions got  in a tizzy we have 6ft metal poles at the yard that we used  when the mares came into contact with each other they were enemy's so we used to stick the poles in between them and push them apart but we NEVER hit them with the poles we only used the poles to force the mares apart in emergencies and would do the same with stallions if that didn't work we would recall our 'horse whisperer' and have 'bonding classes' between them.


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## Seville (8 August 2017)

I posted earlier in this thread as the owner of a PRE. I also own a TB and a WB.
Op, you are obviously doing well, but I think most posters have advised caution to you for good reasons. 
Playing Devils Advocate here, but you have school exams, then more major exams, not to mention boys, which usually means all interest in horses lost. You need to get past all these major life milestones before you even consider causing your parents greater expense of a horse you probably don't need. At 13, you can't yet be that honest with yourself so others will do it for you.
Edited to add all credibility you may have had has gone IMHO in your previous post regarding "you buying it" and metal poles.


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## Alexrouse1 (8 August 2017)

Seville said:



			I posted earlier in this thread as the owner of a PRE. I also own a TB and a WB.
Op, you are obviously doing well, but I think most posters have advised caution to you for good reasons. 
Playing Devils Advocate here, but you have school exams, then more major exams, not to mention boys, which usually means all interest in horses lost. You need to get past all these major life milestones before you even consider causing your parents greater expense of a horse you probably don't need. At 13, you can't yet be that honest with yourself so others will do it for you.
Edited to add all credibility you may have had has gone IMHO in your previous post regarding "you buying it" and metal poles.
		
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School exams aren't for another two years and I understand about the whole boys things but I'm not really that eligible for a boyfriend anytime soon  lol I'm not really part of the 'popular crowd' I understand what you are saying tho. I want to be a riding instructor so my life will always be geared around horses.


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## Alexrouse1 (8 August 2017)

Seville I also sent you a pm just wondering if you have seen it


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## Seville (8 August 2017)

No, not seen it?? Will go and look.


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## Fun Times (8 August 2017)

Best advice I can think of is to seek a horse that is physically and mentally sound and able to do the job you want. Given the problems I am encountering finding something that simply fulfils these criteria, I would stay away from setting restrictions as to specific breed or gender in order to maximise the chance of successfully finding something. You will be amazed how much crud is out there, even if you have a decent budget.


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## Seville (8 August 2017)

Have replied but now can't find it....let me know if you get it.


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## Alexrouse1 (8 August 2017)

Seville said:



			Have replied but now can't find it....let me know if you get it.
		
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Yeah I gotta it and sent one back


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## Chinchilla (8 August 2017)

Alexrouse1 said:



			School exams aren't for another two years and I understand about the whole boys things but I'm not really that eligible for a boyfriend anytime soon  lol I'm not really part of the 'popular crowd' I understand what you are saying tho. I want to be a riding instructor so my life will always be geared around horses.
		
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no offence but I am 15 and you CANNOT start working in the year of your GCSEs. You have to start working hard a long time before that which doesn't leave much time at all, so it's not much use saying 'exams aren't for another two years' because the hard work starts a long time before that, for me it was when I chose my options. (end of y9/start of y10). 
You want the easiest horse possible really to fit in easily around school.


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## Alexrouse1 (8 August 2017)

Diva&Rosie'sMum said:



			no offence but I am 15 and you CANNOT start working in the year of your GCSEs. You have to start working hard a long time before that which doesn't leave much time at all, so it's not much use saying 'exams aren't for another two years' because the hard work starts a long time before that, for me it was when I chose my options. (end of y9/start of y10). 
You want the easiest horse possible really to fit in easily around school.
		
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Look I only started this thread because I wanted pros and cons about owning a PRE stallion OR gelding. And all people are doing is saying don't buy one but that's not what I'm looking for I just wanted some pros and cons. It's been my life long dream to own one so either tell me about the breed or don't put anything on this thread, I'm not looking to be judged by people I don't know. I just wanted information, is that too hard to ask for... jeez


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## AdorableAlice (8 August 2017)

For those of you who do have experience and knowledge of the breed I have a question, ( I am not interested in teenagers wanting to look  flashy in the collecting ring so no comment from me on that).

Do the breeders in Spain and Portugal keep the best stock and sell the rest abroad ?  I ask because all the horses I have seen have such abysmal movement and limb formation.  There is nothing attractive let alone correct about a horse that dishes wildly and loads its limbs incorrectly, has a heavily loaded forehand and gullets the thickness of a rhino.  I can't see that horses made this way would meet a breed standard ?


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## tallyho! (8 August 2017)

AdorableAlice said:



			For those of you who do have experience and knowledge of the breed I have a question, ( I am not interested in teenagers wanting to look  flashy in the collecting ring so no comment from me on that).

Do the breeders in Spain and Portugal keep the best stock and sell the rest abroad ?  I ask because all the horses I have seen have such abysmal movement and limb formation.  There is nothing attractive let alone correct about a horse that dishes wildly and loads its limbs incorrectly, has a heavily loaded forehand and gullets the thickness of a rhino.  I can't see that horses made this way would meet a breed standard ?
		
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Do you know for sure all the ones you've seen are imports?


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## AdorableAlice (8 August 2017)

tallyho! said:



			Do you know for sure all the ones you've seen are imports?
		
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Not a clue, do we breed them in UK with conformation and movement problems ?  There is one up the lane from us that dishes so badly it would trip its leader up on the way to the paddock ! that is an import.

I suppose what I am asking is- is the breed standard a straight moving correct horse regardless of where it is bred ? and are all the wonky donkeys just a poor example of a normally correct horse ?


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## TheMule (8 August 2017)

AdorableAlice said:



			Not a clue, do we breed them in UK with conformation and movement problems ?  There is one up the lane from us that dishes so badly it would trip its leader up on the way to the paddock ! that is an import.

I suppose what I am asking is- is the breed standard a straight moving correct horse regardless of where it is bred ? and are all the wonky donkeys just a poor example of a normally correct horse ?
		
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The breed standard regards dishing as a fault. They vary as much in quality as any other breed, and many people have imported from the lower end of the pile, partly due to cost (a good PRE or luso commands decent money) and partly due to a lack of critical judgement. However, there are also some seriously quality Iberians in this country who have the expression in the movement but also move straight.


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## AdorableAlice (8 August 2017)

TheMule said:



			The breed standard regards dishing as a fault. They vary as much in quality as any other breed, and many people have imported from the lower end of the pile, partly due to cost (a good PRE or luso commands decent money) and partly due to a lack of critical judgement. However, there are also some seriously quality Iberians in this country who have the expression in the movement but also move straight.
		
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Thank you, is there any reason, certain lines perhaps, that give them the tendency to move so badly ?


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## rara007 (8 August 2017)

If you sell the mare if the stallions are well socialised you should be able to go down to one turnout group


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## tallyho! (9 August 2017)

AdorableAlice said:



			Thank you, is there any reason, certain lines perhaps, that give them the tendency to move so badly ?
		
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Centuries ago, it was fashionable to have the dishing, as it was considered a trait of the kings horses but like any fashion, if used in breeding it can quickly go wrong. There is also what was considered "correct" dishing (from the fetlock with hoof landing straight) but I've also seen some that dish from the knee which is "incorrect". However, dishing was added as a fault to the grading this year. That's not to say that dishing was considered ok for the last few decades. The best breeders in Spain, UK and US have been trying to breed it out for much longer. You always get a throwback once in a while - that's just how genes work. There's not necessarily certain "lines" as such but some think there are attributes tracing back to certain breeders centuries ago - however, since mares and stallions were selected from all over Spain, it's hard to say. 

It's a pity that so many people go abroad without doing their research first. Equally many do and bring back some beauties! There are very nice horses bred here in the UK, many go on to compete at SICAB in Spain and that is against the very best of the Spanish stock. There's not much point in breeding bad horses deliberately. Every breeder want's to see their horses do well. It's true, you might not find quality youngster for less than around £4k in this country... but I think that's about the going rate in Spain too. Once they've started under saddle it's usually around £7k then once proven, well I only ever see £POA. 

If you want to see some nice horses have a look: 

https://gbpre.co.uk/
http://www.bapsh.co.uk/ (PIO)


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## stencilface (9 August 2017)

Alexrouse1 said:



			It's been my life long dream to own one so either tell me about the breed or don't put anything on this thread, I'm not looking to be judged by people I don't know. I just wanted information, is that too hard to ask for... jeez
		
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Life long dream aged 13 

Are you Veruca Salt?


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## Hallo2012 (9 August 2017)

Diva&Rosie'sMum said:



			My attitude doesn't stink - the only stallion I've tried to ride/work my horses around was a complete *******, made doing anything with my girls impossible, the owner specifically requested that i stop lunging so she could ride past(!), in fairness I think it was young but rider could not control it properly, and if OP is really 13 surely they won't be able to either? Particularly a big fit dressage stallion??
		
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right. so the one mare that kicks everything when in seasons means that ALL mares will kick does it?

what a bizarre attitude.......................

and how did it make it impossible to work your mare? because she was distracted? thats where training comes in  i think you need to go to a few studs and educate yourself as it sounds like your one stallion experience was with a badly trained one......


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## Abi90 (9 August 2017)

I used to handle big fit dressage stallions at the age of 14 without a problem. This is because their owner had taught them manners. They got a bit vocal around mares but never put a hoof out of line.


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## Lexi_ (9 August 2017)

Alexrouse1 said:



			Look I only started this thread because I wanted pros and cons about owning a PRE stallion OR gelding. And all people are doing is saying don't buy one but that's not what I'm looking for I just wanted some pros and cons. It's been my life long dream to own one so either tell me about the breed or don't put anything on this thread, I'm not looking to be judged by people I don't know. I just wanted information, is that too hard to ask for... jeez
		
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I'm not sure you understand what a con is...

If you only wanted a list of pros, this is probably the wrong place. You've had lots of useful feedback from very experienced people. Don't get stroppy because it's not what you wanted to hear.


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## tristar (9 August 2017)

i had a stallion when i was very    young,    BUT they are all different, the present one is far hotter than the one i had then.

we have a horse here whose sire was many times british national champion on movement at the bapsh show, and on progeny, he returned to spain 10 years ago for breeding, everything he bred moves straight....... terry lines.


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## Seville (9 August 2017)

tristar said:



			i had a stallion when i was very    young,    BUT they are all different, the present one is far hotter than the one i had then.

we have a horse here whose sire was many times british national champion on movement at the bapsh show, and on progeny, he returned to spain 10 years ago for breeding, everything he bred moves straight....... terry lines.
		
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OK...I am about to be accused of bullying a 13 year old. I have tried to talk sense to her PM.
Alexrouse, you PMd me, and I answered you as fully as I could, three times.  You know EXACTLY what I think about what you are doing with a four year old mare, and I advised you not to make it public here, and to ease up on what is happening. You say two vets cleared her for doing this...yeah ok....her mental health and physical stresses are not accounted for. You need to stop it. I also advised, in the strongest possible terms, that you learn as much as you can, sit in with "your trainer" on others lessons as much as you can, and to get experience.
Just how often do you have lessons? Not very, I got the impression.
 You said "I will be starting at elem". Young lady, you haven't even ridden a prelim yet. Pro riders, and very very experienced non pro riders can produce a youngster, carefully, and over time, to debut at elem. At 13, and not even ridden a prelim yet, you cannot. Plus you are just not willing to learn. You are so certain, with all the usual arrogance of a 13 year old, that you know best. I have said please do not put the expense of a horse you do not need and will not be able to ride on to your parents. You want to "buy results", and think if you prance into the warmup on a flashy Spaniard that you will win. If you manage to persuade bank of Mum and Dad to buy you this unfortunate PRE, it will end in utter disaster. Now I have said it publicly, please do not be so rude to posters who have advised you against it. They have reasons...they are all experienced, and want to protect a horse from this utter lunacy. They have advised with wisdom, though at 13 you wont see it. They also, believe it or not, have your well being and safety at heart.
Use this time in to learn, not to assume you know better than far more experienced riders/trainers/owners on this forum.
And please don't pressure your parents.


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## MotherOfChickens (9 August 2017)

I am surprised that people are getting so invested in what is so obviously a pipe dream. unless this girl's parents are massively loaded and daft, this is not going to happen is it?


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## Chinchilla (9 August 2017)

Hallo2012 said:



			right. so the one mare that kicks everything when in seasons means that ALL mares will kick does it?

what a bizarre attitude.......................

and how did it make it impossible to work your mare? because she was distracted? thats where training comes in  i think you need to go to a few studs and educate yourself as it sounds like your one stallion experience was with a badly trained one......
		
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No I was asked to stop working her. I guess said stallion was badly trained, having youtube'd 'dressage stallions'


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## Hallo2012 (9 August 2017)

Diva&Rosie'sMum said:



			No I was asked to stop working her. I guess said stallion was badly trained, having youtube'd 'dressage stallions' 

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having just done the same i mostly find stallions shows, so VERY well behaved horses in big atmospheres so im unsure of your point?

surely you just either ignored her or rode at a different time/different arena? i just cannot see how ONE horse would make life so impossible? seems very odd to take this one horse and decide that all stallions will make life hell.............your mares are entire, just the same, but you happily work around other mares i presume?

i completely agree hysterical owners are a total PITA but you cant tar all horses with the same brush?


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## Nasicus (9 August 2017)

You know EXACTLY what I think about what you are doing with a four year old mare, and I advised you not to make it public here, and to ease up on what is happening. You say two vets cleared her for doing this...yeah ok....her mental health and physical stresses are not accounted for. You need to stop it.
		
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Interesting Seville, you've got me wondering what she's up to now.


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## abbijay (9 August 2017)

Alexrouse1 said:



			My ideal horse is a PRE because when you walk into a warm up ring your horse doesn't look the same as the average warmblood. They have a certain presence when they are in a room, I love the way they move and always have done ( i have wanted a PRE Andalusian since I was about 3) I like how they have history about being cavalry horses and bullfighters. They are a breed of horse that beauty is not only skin deep in them they have beautiful minds and personalities as well, This is why I would love to have an Andalusian horse
		
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I have a Clydesdale and, trust me, if you walk into a dressage warm up on one of those you will get a lot if comments. They have oodles of history and presence comes to them so naturally. They have nice sensible minds so will forgive you if you make a mistake in your riding but they are certainly not plods. Their fabulous attitude and work ethic will make them an excellent horse to start your dressage journey on and they can easily perform at the level you want to go out at. Mine is working easily Elementary and there are plenty out there who have gone far further. They are also designed to live in our climate so far fewer headaches than a PRE will give you.


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## Seville (9 August 2017)

Nasicus said:



			Interesting Seville, you've got me wondering what she's up to now.
		
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Let's just hope her parents are neither loaded or gullible. She is utterly clueless. I make no apology for sounding grumpy. She pm'd me and I did my best to advise. She just wants to hear that she is right. The four year old is being asked too much, I will say no more at this point. I am cross, Nasicus, sorry!!!!!


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## Alexrouse1 (9 August 2017)

Right well thank you everyone for your input and I will take it on and look for a more allround dressage horse instead of one breed.


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## Seville (9 August 2017)

Alexrouse1 said:



			Right well thank you everyone for your input and I will take it on and look for a more allround dressage horse instead of one breed.
		
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Start at prelim, you don't know yet what you are doing.


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## Nasicus (9 August 2017)

Seville said:



			Let's just hope her parents are neither loaded or gullible. She is utterly clueless. I make no apology for sounding grumpy. She pm'd me and I did my best to advise. She just wants to hear that she is right. The four year old is being asked too much, I will say no more at this point. I am cross, Nasicus, sorry!!!!!
		
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Grump away my friend, I completely understand!




			Right well thank you everyone for your input and I will take it on and look for a more allround dressage horse instead of one breed.
		
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That's sensible of you. Chances are, you'll find something out there that's the polar opposite of an Andalusian, but is the perfect match for you, and together with regular lessons from a good instructor, you can start learning Prelim. Who knows, it might be the hairiest of native types that catches your eye! A kind, plain horse is better than a difficult flashy horse any day, especially at your level


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## Auslander (9 August 2017)

Can you not do dressage with the horses you already have?


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## Nasicus (9 August 2017)

Auslander said:



			Can you not do dressage with the horses you already have?
		
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I have the feeling they might be the parent(s) horses?


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## Auslander (9 August 2017)

Nasicus said:



			I have the feeling they might be the parent(s) horses?
		
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She said earlier in the thread that her parents were the least horsey people ever. A very odd situation all round


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## ester (9 August 2017)

Auslander said:



			Can you not do dressage with the horses you already have?
		
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I wondered that, then I wondered if they perhaps came with a wooden stick attached but of course you can still compete then these days


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## tristar (9 August 2017)

however the thread is interesting, thoughts on andalusian horses.

and i must say to come out at elementary is where i would start.


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## ycbm (9 August 2017)

if that didn't work we would recall our 'horse whisperer' and have 'bonding classes' between the {stallions}
		
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I smell some very stinky goats!


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## Nasicus (9 August 2017)

Auslander said:



			She said earlier in the thread that her parents were the least horsey people ever. A very odd situation all round
		
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Another family member maybe? I'll admit I am struggling with the idea of a 13yo who hasn't even done prelim with 2 mares and a stallion (one of whom is a 4yo) with completely not horsey parents who own the facilities. But hey, what do I know, it's a strange world out there!


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## ycbm (9 August 2017)

tristar said:



			however the thread is interesting, thoughts on andalusian horses.

and i must say to come out at elementary is where i would start.
		
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As the first competitive dressage test you have ever ridden in your life?


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## tristar (9 August 2017)

not being awkward , but my friends daughter at 9 years beat a lot of grown ups in showjumping and went on to international.

a girl on a local yard was only 13 when she beat all the instructors and adults in dressage on the local circuit, in classes of  up to 50 competitors, on a 13 hand pony.

whoever or whatever op is, i must say having seen things myself personally, i would`nt say its a strange world rather its a wonderful world where things can and do happen to surprise and delight.

people have won olympic gold aged 22 years, nicole uphoff

while i understand no one wants op to come unstuck, its only a forum! 


.

l


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## Casey76 (9 August 2017)

tristar said:



			not being awkward , but my friends daughter at 9 years beat a lot of grown ups in showjumping and went on to international.

a girl on a local yard was only 13 when she beat all the instructors and adults in dressage on the local circuit, in classes of  up to 50 competitors, on a 13 hand pony.

whoever or whatever op is, i must say having seen things myself personally, i would`nt say its a strange world rather its a wonderful world where things can and do happen to surprise and delight.

people have won olympic gold aged 22 years, nicole uphoff

while i understand no one wants op to come unstuck, its only a forum! 


.

l
		
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I agree that doing well even though young does happen - my ex-YMs son qualified for his first 1* event when he was 13 - it is much more difficult to debut at a decent level even if you are riding well at home.  You can only *really* learn ring-craft by competing and getting that important feedback.


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## tristar (9 August 2017)

elementary is the lowest form of comp worth bothering with as far as i am concerned, too many horses and riders spent too long drizzling around at novice level, elementary is the start of dressage, well it starts there for me.

ring craft can be learned in any arena, nerves and comp stress are down to the individual, some people never conquer it and for others it never exists to start with.

 when i saw  magali delgardo in france  she was making her   actual comp debut at grand prix  she came 12th out of 25 and yes a few adjustments in ring awareness were needed.


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## Leo Walker (9 August 2017)

ester said:



			I wondered that, then I wondered if they perhaps came with a wooden stick attached but of course you can still compete then these days 

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They are real. They look nice enough types. And one at least is hers that she rides.


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## Seville (9 August 2017)

tristar said:



			elementary is the lowest form of comp worth bothering with as far as i am concerned, too many horses and riders spent too long drizzling around at novice level, elementary is the start of dressage, well it starts there for me.

ring craft can be learned in any arena, nerves and comp stress are down to the individual, some people never conquer it and for others it never exists to start with.

 when i saw  magali delgardo in france  she was making her   actual comp debut at grand prix  she came 12th out of 25 and yes a few adjustments in ring awareness were needed.
		
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Some people NEED to start at the beginning. There is a real need for Prelim tests, and the example you quote is the exception rather than the rule, and if people are talented then, yes, they can make a debut higher up the levels. In this instance, with this poster, that's not the case. Assuming she told me the truth during PM. On the other hand she could be a 45 year old having a cheap laugh, who knows?
I don't think its fair to state too many horses "drizzle" round in prelim and novice. Its a huge deal to a lot of riders, and their "drizzling" prelim is like an Olympic achievement. I never belittle prelims, or novices, as there are many good horses to come through the levels like that.


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## Seville (9 August 2017)

tristar said:



			elementary is the lowest form of comp worth bothering with as far as i am concerned, too many horses and riders spent too long drizzling around at novice level, elementary is the start of dressage, well it starts there for me.

ring craft can be learned in any arena, nerves and comp stress are down to the individual, some people never conquer it and for others it never exists to start with.

 when i saw  magali delgardo in france  she was making her   actual comp debut at grand prix  she came 12th out of 25 and yes a few adjustments in ring awareness were needed.
		
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Some people NEED to start at the beginning. There is a real need for Prelim tests, and the example you quote is the exception rather than the rule, and if people are talented then, yes, they can make a debut higher up the levels. In this instance, with this poster, that's not the case. Assuming she told me the truth during PM. On the other hand she could be a 45 year old having a cheap laugh, who knows?
I don't think its fair to state too many horses "drizzle" round in prelim and novice. Its a huge deal to a lot of riders, and their "drizzling" prelim is like an Olympic achievement. I never belittle prelims, or novices, as there are many good horses to come through the levels like that.


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## Seville (9 August 2017)

Leo Walker said:



			They are real. They look nice enough types. And one at least is hers that she rides.
		
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In that case, if you know her, then you need to help her with some good sound advice. And please tell her to back off what she is asking that 4 year old.


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## ester (9 August 2017)

Leo Walker said:



			They are real. They look nice enough types. And one at least is hers that she rides.
		
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Excellent, might as well start with that then


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## tallyho! (9 August 2017)

abbijay said:



			I have a Clydesdale and, trust me, if you walk into a dressage warm up on one of those you will get a lot if comments. 

They are also designed to live in our climate so far fewer headaches than a PRE will give you.
		
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My Clyde x always turned heads - I do love that breed! 

In defence of the PRE/PSL, actually they are terrific doers in most cases - most breeders I know have trouble keeping the weight off, not on. They are really hardy creatures. It's a shame the imports have given the Briitish breds a bad name . I spent more on vets with the big lad than I did on the "headaches".


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## Apercrumbie (9 August 2017)

tallyho! said:



			In defence of the PRE/PSL, actually they are terrific doers in most cases - most breeders I know have trouble keeping the weight off, not on. They are really hardy creatures.
		
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I second this - ours was very easy to keep, as are others that I know. He had hooves like iron too, it sounds like this is unusual for the breed? They were certainly an appalling shape when he stepped off the ferry, but I never have been a fan of continental shoeing. After a year in the UK, he had beautiful hooves.


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## MDB (9 August 2017)

apercrumbie said:



			I second this - ours was very easy to keep, as are others that I know. He had hooves like iron too, it sounds like this is unusual for the breed? They were certainly an appalling shape when he stepped off the ferry, but I never have been a fan of continental shoeing. After a year in the UK, he had beautiful hooves.
		
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My PRE is a very good doer. She also has hooves as hard as nails and will go anywhere over any terrain.


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## MotherOfChickens (9 August 2017)

my two PSls were/are very easy keepers-very hardy in some respects and both with good feet.


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## Seville (9 August 2017)

Mine also has feet of iron and has been barefoot since a month after his arrival here in UK. I micro manage mine, as we have wonderful grass and I won't risk laminitis. His weight is constant, he is on a sugar free diet, is the kindest horse I own, and I am so glad I went down into that remote valley in Spain.


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## stencilface (9 August 2017)

Mine is half luso, a very good doer, and very lami prone!


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## tristar (9 August 2017)

there s a sweet clydesdale mare for sale on donedeal ie recently broken 7 i think, not wishing to lead any c fans into temptation!


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## tallyho! (9 August 2017)

apercrumbie said:



			I second this - ours was very easy to keep, as are others that I know. He had hooves like iron too, it sounds like this is unusual for the breed? They were certainly an appalling shape when he stepped off the ferry, but I never have been a fan of continental shoeing. After a year in the UK, he had beautiful hooves.
		
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Not unusual for the breed at all. From what I have seen and heard there seems to be two distinct types of feet for this particular breed: ones that tend to flatten out and ones that tend to go toe out... and the books have it that there were distinct types of the Iberians - hill dwelling ones and swamp dwelling ones - you can guess which traits belong where....  and the people I know who own them generally do not shoe. Feet like stone (hill genetics fare better).

What tends to ruin feet, any feet, is diet. I have no idea why but some owners (even in Spain but then they have very little forage and grass) seem to think that these types must need lots of grain and this ruins their feet. It's true for most types and you see it in the tb because their genetics go back to barb, arabian, spanish so are unsuited to that diet but need the calories for their job. Thank goodness for shoes.


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## stencilface (9 August 2017)

Minw was toe out as a youngster, and his feet go splat if he gets too much grass, I've just got his heels back! So is he a hill dweller?


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## tallyho! (9 August 2017)

stencilface said:



			Minw was toe out as a youngster, and his feet go splat if he gets too much grass, I've just got his heels back! So is he a hill dweller?
		
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I'm not sure as yours is pb, so could have other traits too... the purebreds generally tend to follow the type no matter what. If mine gets too much grass the toes just grow like the clappers and the heels do nothing.


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## stencilface (9 August 2017)

tallyho! said:



			I'm not sure as yours is pb, so could have other traits too... the purebreds generally tend to follow the type no matter what. If mine gets too much grass the toes just grow like the clappers and the heels do nothing.
		
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Interesting. I've been wanting to do an update foot post, but don't know how to do it without paying for photobucket


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## Dave's Mam (9 August 2017)

stencilface said:



			Interesting. I've been wanting to do an update foot post, but don't know how to do it without paying for photobucket
		
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If you have FB, you can copy an image from there.


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## Leo Walker (9 August 2017)

Dave's Mam said:



			If you have FB, you can copy an image from there.
		
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For anyone who doesnt, I'm happy to post pics for people. Just PM me


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## tallyho! (10 August 2017)

stencilface said:



			Interesting. I've been wanting to do an update foot post, but don't know how to do it without paying for photobucket
		
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You don't have to.. if you have an image from fb lets say, click copy image on right click, then go to advanced reply then click insert image and paste the image code into the pop up... worked for me last time..


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## Leo Walker (10 August 2017)

You dont even need to do that. 

Right click and copy image address (or ipad users open in new tab and copy the info in the address bar)
Then type:


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## Chinchilla (10 August 2017)

Alexrouse1 said:



			Look I only started this thread because I wanted pros and cons about owning a PRE stallion OR gelding. And all people are doing is saying don't buy one but that's not what I'm looking for I just wanted some pros and cons. It's been my life long dream to own one so either tell me about the breed or don't put anything on this thread, I'm not looking to be judged by people I don't know. I just wanted information, is that too hard to ask for... jeez
		
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But you are now getting stressy because people haven't told you, 'sure they are lovely, get one' - despite the fact that you asked for pros _AND_ cons. You seen to resent the fact that there are lots of knowledgeable adults on here, e.g. Seville, who are being honest and trying to help you, and as for you saying 'i just want information' well that is what they are attempting to give you, but I think their advice is falling on deaf ears. 

Personally, I would listen to them; I know they know an awful lot more than me, and they most likely know more than you as well. 

I mean it's been a 'life long dream' of mine to own an akhal teke but it's totally not practical with exams etc. 

There was a coloured cob at the paralympics for christ' sake, breed is not important. Get something with a nice personality and manners and go from there, don't get hung up on breed and gender.


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## stencilface (10 August 2017)

I don't want to flood Facebook with pictures of my horses feet, I'll give myself away as a horsey person


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## DappleDown (10 August 2017)

I agree with Diva&Rosie'sMum.
Lots of good replies to o.p. here but o.p. does seem to have thrown a bit of a huly and gone quiet for the moment.
I think not much more to say really.
Am a bit concerned about whatever is going on with the 4 year old. Hope the o.p. will take advice.


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## Casey76 (10 August 2017)

stencilface said:



			I don't want to flood Facebook with pictures of my horses feet, I'll give myself away as a horsey person 

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You can upload them as "only me" and they won't show up on your timeline to others, but you can still use the source code for here


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## tallyho! (10 August 2017)

DappleDown said:



			I agree with Diva&Rosie'sMum.
Lots of good replies to o.p. here but o.p. does seem to have thrown a bit of a huly and gone quiet for the moment.
I think not much more to say really.
Am a bit concerned about whatever is going on with the 4 year old. Hope the o.p. will take advice.
		
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You can't tell some people and that age it's especially hard - I've tried to offer some pragmatic advice and where to get specialist advice from i.e. PRE people.

Flouncing is definitely a HHO ritual - especially in the summer 

I doubt we'll ever see this specific username again, but the user may come back...


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## stencilface (10 August 2017)

Casey76 said:



			You can upload them as "only me" and they won't show up on your timeline to others, but you can still use the source code for here 

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Thanks! Seems I'm not very well versed in tech stuff


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