# Sprinter Sacre ?



## bonny (16 January 2015)

On a hopefully brighter point than the whip thread, He's back tomorrow, weather permitting....would be amazing to see that he's still invincible but I have my doubts. Any predictions ?


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## KautoStar1 (16 January 2015)

Hopefully a clean round of jumping & to see him finish well would be the best outcome. A win would be asking a lot.  And as it has been proved many times, those that last season after season at the very top are rare indeed. 
He was very exuberant on his race course work out at Newbury so there is a chance he might blow himself out with excitement.


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## bonny (16 January 2015)

I think anything less than a win would be a major anti climax after all this time off ...


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## popsdosh (16 January 2015)

bonny said:



			I think anything less than a win would be a major anti climax after all this time off ...
		
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Dont think you would see him unless hes 100% fit! lets face it at 75% he could have beaten most!
Been a huge fan since the first time I saw him at the yard!


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## Dobiegirl (16 January 2015)

I cant wait to see him, we wont know until tomorrow whether he is the SS of old, I would love to see him win but as long as he puts in a clear round and shows some of his old enthusiasm that will do for me regardless of where he finishes.


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## Madam Min (16 January 2015)

Dobiegirl said:



			I cant wait to see him, we wont know until tomorrow whether he is the SS of old, I would love to see him win but as long as he puts in a clear round and shows some of his old enthusiasm that will do for me regardless of where he finishes.
		
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^^^^^^^^
This! Stunning horse!


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## Clodagh (16 January 2015)

I can't watch it, we are shooting. OH refused to reschedule shoot day for me. Oh to have a posh phone!
I hope he wins, I really do, but to finish safe and sound isthe whole thing. Such a stunning horse.


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## Brummyrat (16 January 2015)

Going to record it as I'll be out too, so excited but also really nervous, as long as he gets a clear round and comes back safe then I'll be happy.


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## A1fie (16 January 2015)

I can't wait to see him and hope he does well.  I still hope to see a race with him and Sire de Grugy


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## KautoStar1 (17 January 2015)

Well assuming he comes out of the race ok I think connections will be pleased with that.  He jumped fine & seemed to be enjoying it.  Just needed a run & he will be better on better ground no doubt.  However the Champ chase is wide open now.


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## Alec Swan (17 January 2015)

Brummyrat,  READ NO FURTHER!!  I don't want to spoil a good race!
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A good race,  the winner deserved his place and I'm wondering if SC didn't 'need' that race.  Was he race rusty?  Possibly,  but as his trainer said,  it was the horse of old,  he just ran out of steam.

I'm not one for 'spoiling' horses,  but I suspect that,  dependent upon the company,  he has more to offer yet!

Alec.


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## Madam Min (17 January 2015)

I thought he ran well, he jumped better the further he got round. I hope there is more to come as he is an amazing horse.


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## Nicnac (17 January 2015)

Loved watching him - he really got going around half way round.  Right horse won.


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## Dobiegirl (17 January 2015)

I was really pleased with that, he clearly needed the race but having over a year off he was entitled to run out of petrol, come March we will see the finished article Im sure but if all the participants turn up then it could well be the race of the festival.

Anyone going to predict the winner in March, I'm really taken with the Irish horse Special Tiara but haven't made my mind up yet.


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## Madam Min (17 January 2015)

Special Tiara has got some jump judging by its outing a few weeks ago!


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## Dobiegirl (17 January 2015)

Just heard that SS suffered a slight bleed from the nose after the race which was unlikely to have affected his performance.


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## KautoStar1 (17 January 2015)

Yes just read that too on the RP.  Lets hope it's nothing.


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## Orangehorse (17 January 2015)

Nor do we know how good the winner was.  He is a progressive horse, he might turn out to be a star too.


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## Elf On A Shelf (17 January 2015)

A bleed would suggest that that is why he had no answer for Dodging Bullets and it would also suggest that he needed the run, even after a racecourse gallop nothing really prepares you for a race until a race itself. SS will come on a country mile for the run. Cheltenham will be exciting that's for sure!


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## bonny (17 January 2015)

EKW said:



			A bleed would suggest that that is why he had no answer for Dodging Bullets and it would also suggest that he needed the run, even after a racecourse gallop nothing really prepares you for a race until a race itself. SS will come on a country mile for the run. Cheltenham will be exciting that's for sure!
		
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Doubt this, it doesn't seem to concern his connections or the vets, sounds like just a bit of blood which is fairly normal. I was disappointed with his run, he looked and ran ok but the Sprinter Sacre of the past would have laughed at his rivals today. He's missed the year when he would probably have been at his peak and most horses don't come back the same after a year off. I suspect he will win more races if he carries on but we won't see him again as he was, which was incinvible.....


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## Alec Swan (17 January 2015)

There was also a heavy fall in the(?) race.  The jockey was up,  as the camera left the scene,  but the horse made no effort to rise.  Does anyone have any news of the apparently stricken animal?

Alec.


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## Elf On A Shelf (17 January 2015)

Alec Swan said:



			There was also a heavy fall in the(?) race.  The jockey was up,  as the camera left the scene,  but the horse made no effort to rise.  Does anyone have any news of the apparently stricken animal?

Alec.
		
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If it was the last televised race then it was King Edmond and no, he did not survive unfortunately.

As an aside - Aiden Coleman has been given a 4 day ban for his Welsh National Ride.


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## popsdosh (17 January 2015)

bonny said:



			Doubt this, it doesn't seem to concern his connections or the vets, sounds like just a bit of blood which is fairly normal. I was disappointed with his run, he looked and ran ok but the Sprinter Sacre of the past would have laughed at his rivals today. He's missed the year when he would probably have been at his peak and most horses don't come back the same after a year off. I suspect he will win more races if he carries on but we won't see him again as he was, which was incinvible.....
		
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I have to join you and I hope I am wrong ,He wasnt his old self at all ,he was fiddling a few fences and to me was not comfortable in the race like, he used to cruise. I said to a friend after 3 fences he was going to be beat. Tired or not under the race conditions he had over 20lbs in hand on any of the others which if it had been a handicap would have put him well out the back.I know the jockey never pushed him at all but was that because he did not want to over do it or because he knew he was not going under him.
To me NHs face in running told a story!
Like I say I hope I am wrong and there wont be anybody cheering him on louder at Cheltenham but it was not what I had hoped for.He did not have that sparkle and swagger of old! It was great to see him back though ,I suspect the winner coming in felt a bit like the pantomime villain as most of the crowd were only still interested by one horse.


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## popsdosh (17 January 2015)

EKW said:



			As an aside - Aiden Coleman has been given a 4 day ban for his Welsh National Ride.
		
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I think the repercussions from that decision will eventually cause the whip rules to be changed again!!!
Jockey power soon has to come into play I thinks. Might as well have stewards sitting in a pub somewhere watching on TV FFS


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## KautoStar1 (17 January 2015)

But we should all remember he is just a horse, not a machine. Nothing is infallible. 
To even get him back in race condition is amazing. I hope we see him again & that he when he runs he does himself credit but lets not forget most race horses have one brilliant season. They peak & then drop off.


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## KautoStar1 (17 January 2015)

EKW said:



			As an aside - Aiden Coleman has been given a 4 day ban for his Welsh National Ride.
		
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Seriously ?  Has the BHA taken all leave of its senses ?  
What a joke.


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## Dobiegirl (17 January 2015)

popsdosh said:



			I think the repercussions from that decision will eventually cause the whip rules to be changed again!!!
Jockey power soon has to come into play I thinks. Might as well have stewards sitting in a pub somewhere watching on TV FFS
		
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I thought they already did, given what D Bridgwater had to say about his 16yr old jockey being given a 21 day ban he thinks so to.


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## Elf On A Shelf (17 January 2015)

Dobiegirl said:



			I thought they already did, given what D Bridgwater had to say about his 16yr old jockey being given a 21 day ban he thinks so to.
		
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To which he got fined for and made to apologise - talk about freedom of speech! Lol!


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## popsdosh (17 January 2015)

KautoStar1 said:



			But we should all remember he is just a horse, not a machine. Nothing is infallible. 
To even get him back in race condition is amazing. I hope we see him again & that he when he runs he does himself credit but lets not forget most race horses have one brilliant season. They peak & then drop off.
		
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I was not criticising his run in any way but I am not so sure it was what they hoped for! I personally think it would be a huge ask to run in the champion chase and would not blame them if they changed targets for him perhaps going to Aintree on an easier track terrain wise and a little more time!
I really hope he proves me wrong!!


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## teapot (17 January 2015)

Another glad to see him back out on a course and hope he improves further having a run, and gets that real sparkle back. 

Also I wouldn't underestimate Dodging Bullets - horse in form, won on all types of ground, fab trainer and has a pick of good jockeys on top. Sprinter Sacre wasn't exactly in a comeback race in a 4.30pm at Fontwell.


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## Echo Bravo (17 January 2015)

The horse ran well and with joy, anybody could see that, to expect him to win first time out after 13 months only dipsticks would expect that to happen. I just enjoyed seeing him enjoy himself and Dodging Bullets is on the upgrade, something to look forward too come March.


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## TeamChaser (17 January 2015)

teapot said:



			Another glad to see him back out on a course and hope he improves further having a run, and gets that real sparkle back. 

Also I wouldn't underestimate Dodging Bullets - horse in form, won on all types of ground, fab trainer and has a pick of good jockeys on top. Sprinter Sacre wasn't exactly in a comeback race in a 4.30pm at Fontwell.
		
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Completely agree with you Teapot - Dodging Bullets different horse this season, and PN horses flying now. Also still improving - beat Somersby by 2 lengths in Tingle Creek and 7 today. Can't wait to see Sire De Grugy comeback run, Champion Chase looking very interesting!

Sure Sprinter Sacre will have needed the run after a year off the track - today was a prep run and they clearly wanted to look after him. We'll see different horse come March


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## minesadouble (17 January 2015)

Totally agree with the above re him needing a run and not having been trained with today as his target. I thought Barry Geraghty gave him a perfect ride under the circumstances. I for one would certainly not be writing him off in the strength of that run. Roll on March!!


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## bonny (17 January 2015)

I disagree, there was too much at stake and the stable waited and agonised about running today. I don't think it was a prep race for Cheltenham or anything else. The Sprinter Sacre of old would have won today.


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## KautoStar1 (17 January 2015)

If it wasn't a prep race what was it ?  They needed to get him out & racing to see if he retained any of his enthusiasm. On that evidence he does.  He's just not match fit.


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## KautoStar1 (17 January 2015)

To add I thought he looked v well in the paddock, he walked well & his skin looked good. He went to post brightly too. 
Whether he will win again in the manner of his previous races is unknown but I see no reason why he won't train on.


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## Luci07 (18 January 2015)

KautoStar1 said:



			If it wasn't a prep race what was it ?  They needed to get him out & racing to see if he retained any of his enthusiasm. On that evidence he does.  He's just not match fit.
		
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I agree. Of course they would have liked a win but Barry G was patently instructed NOT to empty the tank if the horse was tiring. SS started to show some of his class over the fences but there wasn't quite enough in the tank and DB dug deep and ran hard. Well deserved win for DB. I suspect that race will have taken a lot out of DB whereas SS will have a quicker recovery. There are some disgruntled people who seem to think this wonderful horse should have been chased hard for a win but not me. I enjoyed the race. We saw this horse is on his way back and I can't wait for Cheltenham. Photos and television really don't do this boy justice. He is beyond magnificent in the flesh.


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## popsdosh (18 January 2015)

I think he will train on and be fine ,however after yesterdays performance im not sure I would risk him going to Cheltenham and getting in a big battle that may finish him off I think it would come to quick for him. Whatever gloss is put on yesterday he should have won easily at those weights even if not fully fit.You could see the disappointment in NHs face in running,I dont think it was what he hoped for its not like he does not know how to get a horse fit to win first time out! I just wonder why he has not come back sooner .

I think yesterday has opened up more questions than it answered!


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## Exploding Chestnuts (18 January 2015)

Luci07 said:



			I agree. Of course they would have liked a win but Barry G was patently instructed NOT to empty the tank if the horse was tiring. SS started to show some of his class over the fences but there wasn't quite enough in the tank and DB dug deep and ran hard. Well deserved win for DB. I suspect that race will have taken a lot out of DB whereas SS will have a quicker recovery. There are some disgruntled people who seem to think this wonderful horse should have been chased hard for a win but not me. I enjoyed the race. We saw this horse is on his way back and I can't wait for Cheltenham. Photos and television really don't do this boy justice. He is beyond magnificent in the flesh.
		
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Good post.
The horse has had aproblem and they did the right thing imho, all on target for the festival which is two months away!
and PNs horses look absolutely terrific this year, there will be no stopping him, again


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## Alec Swan (18 January 2015)

Bonkers2 said:



			&#8230;&#8230;..,  all on target for the festival which is two months away!
and PNs horses look absolutely terrific this year, there will be no stopping him, again 

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For those who bet,  the early money placed on Sprinter Sacre and for Cheltenham,  will produce dividends,  I'm almost certain!  The horse 'needed' yesterday,  and there is better to come.  Will he be as good as he was?  I doubt it.  Will he be bettered?  I doubt that too.

Alec.


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## bonny (18 January 2015)

Only time will tell but for all of you that think he needed the race, I think you are wrong and he would have been fit enough yesterday. Most horses don't come back.....for me it's Big Bucks all over again and however great he looked he was a different horse to the champion that he once was.


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## Dobiegirl (18 January 2015)

bonny said:



			Only time will tell but for all of you that think he needed the race, I think you are wrong and he would have been fit enough yesterday. Most horses don't come back.....for me it's Big Bucks all over again and however great he looked he was a different horse to the champion that he once was.
		
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I hope you are wrong but you are forgetting Denman & Well Chief who was off the track longer than he was on, but performed really well on their return and SS has age on his side as well whereas the 2 Ive highlighted were getting on.


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## TeamChaser (18 January 2015)

We'll have to agree to disagree bonny &#128521;

BG was pleased with performance and has said he was just a bit ring rusty and got a little tired which is clearly why he wasn't pushed hard. This may have been a Grade 1 and I'm sure they had him pretty straight but to imagine this wasn't a prep run for his main aim for the season is a little naive. He was never going to go straight to Cheltenham so had to run somewhere and such a highly rated horse would not have too many options. The only other option would be the Game Spirit which is another 2 wks away, 2 wks closer to the festival, take into account unpredictable weather at this time of yr etc, etc

I would imagine connections will be satisfied and now have time to get him spot on


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## teapot (18 January 2015)

bonny said:



			Only time will tell but for all of you that think he needed the race, I think you are wrong and he would have been fit enough yesterday. Most horses don't come back.....for me it's Big Bucks all over again and however great he looked he was a different horse to the champion that he once was.
		
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Nicky Henderson quoted as saying he was 90% fit on the Racing Post website. Think the trainer knows his horse best and I look forward to seeing how he comes out at Cheltenham.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (19 January 2015)

Alec Swan said:



			For those who bet,  the early money placed on Sprinter Sacre and for Cheltenham,  will produce dividends,  I'm almost certain!  The horse 'needed' yesterday,  and there is better to come.  Will he be as good as he was?  I doubt it.  Will he be bettered?  I doubt that too.
I never bet ante post these days, the bookies know far more than the punter, so it's a waste of money.
I don't know what 90% fit means or how it is measured, its just a soundbite imho.
		
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## Optimissteeq (19 January 2015)

popsdosh said:



			I think he will train on and be fine ,however after yesterdays performance im not sure I would risk him going to Cheltenham and getting in a big battle that may finish him off I think it would come to quick for him. Whatever gloss is put on yesterday he should have won easily at those weights even if not fully fit.You could see the disappointment in NHs face in running,I dont think it was what he hoped for its not like he does not know how to get a horse fit to win first time out! I just wonder why he has not come back sooner .

I think yesterday has opened up more questions than it answered!
		
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I agree with most of this but I do hope I'm wrong. NH racing hasn't got too many charismatic characters at the moment and SS was/is one of my favourites. It will be a great shame if he fails at Cheltenham but I get the feeling that NH was trying to put on a brave face and say the things we wanted to hear. I will be shouting him home at Cheltenham and I haven't written him off yet, I am just not as confident as some of the other posters on this thread.


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## Alec Swan (19 January 2015)

Interesting views from everyone!  As this section is relatively slow moving,  history should be able to reveal who's right,  or not,  and so we can watch S_S's progress,  with interest!

Alec.


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## KautoStar1 (19 January 2015)

I don't think he will ever be the horse he was.  I think, with the time off and age (although he is not old in horse terms, race horses do 'age' quicker due to their life style) some of that speed and edge may be blunted.  So I don't think we will see a demolition job as his previous races have been.  Also bear in mind that the horses he is likely to face this season are a whole lot better than those of previous seasons, so he may have to work just that bit harder by default.


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## bonny (11 March 2015)

Couldn't resist finding and reading this thread again, it's interesting in view of what happened today and sad that those of us who thought he wouldn't come back have been proved right. I though Ruby Walsh was amazing with his insight just before the race, talk about getting it right !


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## Clodagh (11 March 2015)

Heaven help us all when Ruby stops riding and starts training! He has such an eye.


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## popsdosh (11 March 2015)

bonny said:



			Couldn't resist finding and reading this thread again, it's interesting in view of what happened today and sad that those of us who thought he wouldn't come back have been proved right. I though Ruby Walsh was amazing with his insight just before the race, talk about getting it right !
		
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I hope the others did not lose to much on him he just did not look right last time and sadly my feelings were not wrong . I have seen it a few times a horse that is off the track a while will not give it all again  it is sad but he does not owe anybody anything its just a shame we shall possibly never see his exuberance again because the first time I saw him I was in awe. I in many years had not seen his equal ,only in my mind wayward lad came anywhere near him.


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## teapot (11 March 2015)

I don't mind being proved wrong re Sprinter Sacre (shows I'm not infallible) and I'm glad he came home but doubt he'll be racing much again. 

Though my comment about not writing off Dodging Bullets was correct :biggrin3:


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## Alec Swan (11 March 2015)

bonny said:



			&#8230;&#8230;.. I though Ruby Walsh was amazing with his insight just before the race, talk about getting it right !
		
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It's only a shame that the horse's Owners and Trainer didn't give the horse and the race a little more thought.  The poor creature was pulled up,  all credit to his jockey,  but the truth is that the animal should have been previously retired.  If Walsh could see that the horse had no chance,  would it be credible to believe that the Trainer wasn't also aware of just how futile their efforts would be?

Alec.


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## popsdosh (12 March 2015)

Alec Swan said:



			It's only a shame that the horse's Owners and Trainer didn't give the horse and the race a little more thought.  The poor creature was pulled up,  all credit to his jockey,  but the truth is that the animal should have been previously retired.  If Walsh could see that the horse had no chance,  would it be credible to believe that the Trainer wasn't also aware of just how futile their efforts would be?

Alec.
		
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With all due respect Alec I think thats a little harsh ,they gave it a go maybe he is good at home!
I have seen it several times were a horse has had an experience on a racecourse ,like for example when his heart issue first came to light. This then goes on to mean they can work really well at home yet because of whatever happened will not go well on the course a memory maybe ,if only we knew what was going on in their heads. 
I was very sceptical of his previous run as he did not look the same horse he fiddled fences which suggested he was holding something back as SS in earlier times never hesitated and I still say NHs face in running told the story .

You are now saying he should have been retired however in previous post in this thread you do not mention that, in fact you seem of the opposite opinion.Please dont get me wrong I am not getting at you I just think its a little unfair to suggest they had done wrong by him ,having up until now said he would train on and needed that run. The brave thing in hindsight was to retire him after his last run and I sincerely hope they will now he is a shadow of his former self and it would be better to remember his previous achievements.


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## armchair_rider (12 March 2015)

I agree with popsdosh. The horse's comeback run wasn't great but it wasn't so bad as to suggest he should be retired on the spot. I personally think they were entirely justified in running him yesterday (presuming he was fully fit and going well at home - and I can't imagine they'd have run him if he wasn't). But I do think that on yesterday's evidence the time probably has come to retire him.


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## Mariposa (12 March 2015)

I have to disagree Alec. His comeback wasn't great, although he's been apparently been amazing at home. I am friends with one of the Seven Barrows team and I know they all absolutely adore the horse, I'm sure they wouldn't race him just for the sake of it. 

Nicky said in Racing Post "  "I don't think we can make any brave predictions today about what's going to be the future. He has been a great horse and if it is wrong to go on, I am sure we won't do. But if there a switch we can find that gets rid of whatever has afflicted him today then who knows? But he won't be abused.

"It is disappointing, of course it is for everybody. Everybody has worked their socks off to get him back. Nobody was pretending he was the horse he was two years ago, otherwise he would have been threes-on. But we have taken a massive step backwards today."

I have massive respect for Nicky Henderson, he's gracious in defeat and in victory - and not all trainers are like that.


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## AdorableAlice (12 March 2015)

I was lucky enough to attend a pre Cheltenham evening with various trainers, pundits and 2 irish jockey's.

Both the jockey's who I won't name, said the horse would be pulled up.


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## Dobiegirl (12 March 2015)

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, I really think if he was showing them at home all the right signs then they had to give him a chance. BGs instructions would Im sure to pu if he didnt feel the horse was right, I watched the race again last night and SS was up there for quite a while so I dont blame the owners or NH for giving it a go.

I didnt make a prediction on this thread but merely pointed out horses that had come back successfully  after health issues and a long break, those being Well Chief, I dont do statistics.


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## madmav (12 March 2015)

Do you remember everyone writing off Kauto Star and then he came back and won the Boxing Day cup for the fourth time? Horses are not machines. Sprinter Sacre was a sensation in his prime. He could have done it again. But it was not to be.


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## bonny (12 March 2015)

madmav said:



			Do you remember everyone writing off Kauto Star and then he came back and won the Boxing Day cup for the fourth time? Horses are not machines. Sprinter Sacre was a sensation in his prime. He could have done it again. But it was not to be.
		
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I think the point that's being made is that some knew he wasn't going to come back, you can't compare him to Kauto, he did it all and was written off by some because of his age, Paul Nicholls always knew differently. Presumably Sprinter didn't run for so long was because the stable couldn't get him right and they knew that. Wishing something to be doesn't make it happen !


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## bonny (12 March 2015)

madmav said:



			Do you remember everyone writing off Kauto Star and then he came back and won the Boxing Day cup for the fourth time? Horses are not machines. Sprinter Sacre was a sensation in his prime. He could have done it again. But it was not to be.
		
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I think the point that's being made is that some knew he wasn't going to come back, you can't compare him to Kauto, he did it all and was written off by some because of his age, Paul Nicholls always knew differently. Presumably Sprinter didn't run for so long was because the stable couldn't get him right and they knew that. Wishing something to be doesn't make it happen !


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## pip6 (19 March 2015)

Different problem. IMHO Denman was never quite the horse he was (though still very good) post heart issues. Difference is though he didn't look like he was struggling, and was still enjoying himself. Now he has a fab retirement. I can get it is very tempting to try and come back with such a special horse as SS, even if he is no longer 100%, he could still be very good if not exceptional. Thing is though, whatever he shows at home, and I in now way doubt how much his team and owner think of him, be it mentally or physically, he is calling time, the insatiable will to win a racehorse needs isn't there. Hope they have a wonderful time with him in retirement off the race course, he has certainly earned it and owes nothing to anyone.


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