# Freezemark or microchip???



## karen65 (22 January 2008)

I have just made an appointment to get my grey freezemarked. I've been dithering about it as I didnt want her to have a bald mark on her shoulder, however having seen that several of the Amersham horses were microchipped yet still stolen has made my mind up. I've toyed with foot brands, ear tatoos etc. I hope if someone wants to steal my horse they might be more put off by a readily seen freezemark than the possibility it may have a microchip. Wonder what others think? <font color="blue">  </font>


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## MadMacher (22 January 2008)

I think freeze marking is more of a deterant


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## the watcher (22 January 2008)

I would 100% support freezemarking as the most effective way of preventing theft, and in the event of the worst happening and your horse being stolen, the most effective way of recovering it.

I just wish more people would do it.


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## LynnWalker (22 January 2008)

Well if I had a choice over again I would definately go for freezemarking. My boy was microchipped and stolen - ok when he is found I will be able to prove he is mine, but if I had got him freezemarked, chances are he would not have been taken.
I know there are those who think it isnt a deterrent, but if your horse is stolen it is easier for ANYONE horsey or not to look for the mark than it is a description.
If the thieves take your horse, then see the mark it is harder for them to pass it on in most cases - I know registry was not always upto date, but it is a fact that more freezemarked horses are recovered than non marked horses. You only have to look at the Horsewatch sites and the stolen horse register.
Thats my 2p worth anyhow!

xx


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## Sugarplum Furry (22 January 2008)

Echo The Watcher, freezemarking every time.


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## JM07 (22 January 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
however having seen that several of the Amersham horses were microchipped yet still stolen 

[/ QUOTE ]

were they??

where was that reported as fact then?


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## stormhorse (22 January 2008)

Freezemark as its visable &amp; makes it easier to identify if the horse is stolen or strays.


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## Minnies_Mum (22 January 2008)

Freezemarking is a definite deterrent, however I have literally just got in from a talk on microchipping and it will soon be compulsory for horses to be microchipped too (around 2010).  This is because, currently, the passport system doesn't allow you to identify a stolen or stray horse, unless the passport happens to be tied around the horse's neck!  Obviously if they are freezemarked this isn't the case.  So your horse may end up with both anyway.  But I agree about the deterrent factor, definitely.


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## Donkeymad (22 January 2008)

Apart from the fact that horses can not be freezemarked until twelve months old, I do not see why freezemarking cannot be the required identification, or at least the choice of. Doesn't it apply only to all foals born from Jan 1st 2010?

Agree with the-watcher all the way, every single one of mine gets Freezemarked. One of mine came with a micro chip but I still had her Freezemarked.


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## Minnies_Mum (22 January 2008)

Hmm, not sure, the guy giving the talk was from a microchipping company- maybe his info is biased!  I don't see why it can't me freezemarking either.  I think it will apply to all horses though, not just foals born from 1st Jan 2010.


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## custard (22 January 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
I would 100% support freezemarking as the most effective way of preventing theft, and in the event of the worst happening and your horse being stolen, the most effective way of recovering it. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Re iterated, although I think a good compromise is to have a microchip plus the farmkey micro mark which draws attention  to the microchip as well as being a visible deterrent.


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## conniegirl (23 January 2008)

custards mum, how many people actualy know what that mark means though? and cartainly just seeing a horse in the field with a micromark isnt going to prove its stolen as you would have to then get someone out with a microchip reader and there is nothing  individual about a micromark so if you were not looking for a particular horse you most likely wouldnt give it a 2nd thought. However a new horse in a field with a freezemark, it takes 30 sec on the internet to see if its stolen as the number is unique to that horse and can be easily noted down and checked.
every one has a set of eyes and is able to note a number down, not everyone has a microchip scanner


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## ISHmad (23 January 2008)

I would say freezemarking every time.  It is a visible deterrent as others have said, and the recovery rate for stolen freezemarked horses is very high.  

Have heard some horrible stories about thieving scum having microchip scanners, and gouging chips out with potato peelers...  Don't know how true that is but isn't a risk I would want to take.


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## Sugarplum Furry (23 January 2008)

ISH Mad, unfortunately it is true that the horse thieves have scanners and have been known to remove a microchip. It's also unfortunate that in the event of a possibly stolen horse being checked, not all police possess a scanner and what should be a quick procedure turns into a long wait while somebody goes off to find a vet/dog warden who will come and do the job. I had this situation at Stow Fair a few years ago with a possible stolen pony...in the 3 hours it took to find someone with a scanner the pony could easily have been boxed up and gone. As it turns out, is wasn't the stolen pony we were looking for, but the police attending on that day said it was an interesting learning curve and a lesson in procedure for them, as they had never been asked to scan a pony or horse at the Fair before. As you can imagine, with the number of travellers trading at the Fair it could easily turned into an ugly situation and it took all their tact to stop it turning into a volatile confrontation. Of course...if the pony had been freezemarked.......easy peasy.....

Hopefully, if and when the microchipping law comes in in 2010, scanners will be standard kit for any police force.


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## Stella (23 January 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
...if the pony had been freezemarked.......easy peasy..... 

[/ QUOTE ]
From what I heard the other day - apparantly not  
	
	
		
		
	


	




 The ability to change freezemarks was explained to me. The person said that they worked at a dealers yard when they were 16 and some horses came in and had the numbers in their freezemarks changed with paroxide and hair die! This is so depressing. Since I have also heard that few, if any abbotoirs, auctions or even animal welfare workers bother to have the equipment to read microchips, I was going to have my mare freezemarked after the Amersham rescue concentrated my mind. Now I don't know what to do


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## the watcher (23 January 2008)

'Hopefully, if and when the microchipping law comes in in 2010, scanners will be standard kit for any police force. '

You would like to think so, but I doubt it. H&amp;S would require a course just to be near and handle the animals - can't see that happening.

Policemen, however, are very good at reading numbers and letters, their job relies in it, and this is where freezemarking scores.


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## Theresa_F (23 January 2008)

I have done both - you cannot interfer with a chip and the mark is more of a put off for thieves.  I also pay to keep on the Farmkey registration database so should anything happen, they will immediately put out notices and contact sales and shipping reps.

I also have notices by the stable and fields that they are chipped and freezemarked but am unable to add that I will arrange for your kneecaps to be shot off if you steal my horses - something about it being not allowed in law.


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## Spot_the_Risk (23 January 2008)

Freezemarking for me, all ours bar the foal are done, the foal is microchipped and will be getting a freezemark for her 1st birthday!


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## irishdraught (23 January 2008)

I have worked the likes of Appleby Fair and I have never known any of the "agencies" using a microchip scanner. 

An insurance company pays for a caravan identifier to attend the fair and he has recovered loads of stolen caravans - perhaps some insurance companies should club together and do the same for stolen horses. I bet a few would turn up there.


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## rascal (23 January 2008)

Freeze marking everytime! I think it should be compulsery! All ours are done including our yearling and two greys, and it brings great peace of mind. I paint the numbers on the rugs as well just so the theives know they are marked. There are loads of stolen horses that are microchipped, very few freeze marked ones.


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## Stella (23 January 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
I have worked the likes of Appleby Fair and I have never known any of the "agencies" using a microchip scanner. 

An insurance company pays for a caravan identifier to attend the fair and he has recovered loads of stolen caravans - perhaps some insurance companies should club together and do the same for stolen horses. I bet a few would turn up there. 

[/ QUOTE ] Can I ask, have you come across, or heard of freeze marks being changed?


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## the watcher (23 January 2008)

I have heard stories that it can be done, and have heard stories of one 'dealer' who is said to have injured a horse by attempting to scrape off the top layer of skin.

I have never actually seen it though, or heard of a verified case of this happening, and I think you would have to do so much damage to the skin to acheive this that all you would be doing is sending a clear signal to any buyer that this is a stolen horse


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## Stella (23 January 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
I have heard stories that it can be done, and have heard stories of one 'dealer' who is said to have injured a horse by attempting to scrape off the top layer of skin.

I have never actually seen it though, or heard of a verified case of this happening, and I think you would have to do so much damage to the skin to acheive this that all you would be doing is sending a clear signal to any buyer that this is a stolen horse 

[/ QUOTE ] It is apparantly also done with paroxide and hair die (see my post above). This would be temporary of course, but would get a horse through the sales etc


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## Sugarplum Furry (23 January 2008)

Watcher, yes, I think it's the same incident I've heard about re. changing a freezemark. It just makes a nasty and obvious mess.

Irishdraught, the problem with any traveller or gypsy type fair is, as you'll know from being at Appleby, it's a very them and us situation. I'd be interested to know how anyone can ID stolen caravans without getting mobbed and beaten up..sorry, not meaning to sound on my high horse!! PM me if you like.


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## conniegirl (24 January 2008)

the watcher, its not that easy, bleaching a dark horses hair with peroxide doesnt work, on a chestnut the hair goes pink.  and on a bay it tends to go yellow rather then white.


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## Stella (24 January 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
the watcher, its not that easy, bleaching a dark horses hair with peroxide doesnt work, on a chestnut the hair goes pink.  and on a bay it tends to go yellow rather then white. 

[/ QUOTE ] Thats really good to hear 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 It sounds like it may be worth doing then?


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## conniegirl (24 January 2008)

ive got all 5 of my show horses done, and one of them is a grey so has a bald mark on his shoulder


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## irishdraught (24 January 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
 the problem with any traveller or gypsy type fair is, as you'll know from being at Appleby, it's a very them and us situation. I'd be interested to know how anyone can ID stolen caravans without getting mobbed and beaten up..sorry, not meaning to sound on my high horse!! PM me if you like. 

[/ QUOTE ]

You're not on high horse - he gets is strategically positioned at the entrance/exit to the main site on the public highway and is always escorted by Police. He has never had violence offered to him.


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## Spot_the_Risk (24 January 2008)

Forgot to say, a year or so back we found that the horses rugs were being tampered with, and the trailer door undone - this happened a few times, and the Police thought we were being checked out for possibly theft ie check out the trailer, nick that and load the horses into it.  Horses are all freezemarked, and we took three wheels off the trailer on the community policemans advice - IMO that will stop theft more than any hitchlock!


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## lastchancer (26 January 2008)

When the powers that be realise that they should be scanning for microchips and looking for freezemarks at ferry ports I will jump for joy. Several gypsy cobs have been succesfully traced to the continent (and returned home) in the last year.
How many more are exported without a trace? 
	
	
		
		
	


	





www.lastchaneequine .com


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## squirtlysmum (26 January 2008)

I have my bay boy freezemarked and would always go for that however I used to compete a grey mare who had a mark on her shoulder and it sunburned in the summer and had to be plastered with suncream and would rub raw when she travelled so it's a difficult decision on a grey ned.


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## the watcher (27 January 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
 Several gypsy cobs have been succesfully traced to the continent (and returned home) in the last year.
How many more are exported without a trace? 
	
	
		
		
	


	






[/ QUOTE ]

Do you have any first hand examples of this that can be verified. If it is true there is is a real story there that somebody should be following up.


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## Donkeymad (27 January 2008)

I think that is unusual. My grey had quite sensitive skin and had no problems and I imagine some will, but I wouldn't use it as a reason not to Freezemark.


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## stormyhorse (30 January 2008)

Definatley freezemarking! We had our trailer stolen so i wasn't taking any changes, i got him freezemarked straight away. Also we have painted our postcode on top of our new trailer so hopefully if it is ever taken (fingers crossed it isnt) the thieves will not notice and it will be easy to find, that probably won't work though!


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## LynnWalker (30 January 2008)

Stormyhorse, having your postcode on the roof of your trailer is excellent! -  have you not heard of skywatch? These are pilots in some parts of the country who are willing to fly and look for stolen trailers /lorries - and having the post code on the roof is obviously very visible to them.
They are volunteers, and are involved with Horsewatch, and do help out when they can.


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## minmax (30 January 2008)

We are arranging to have a few horses on our yard freezemarked by Farmkey.
I think if you can make it as difficult for thieves as poss, all the better!
Anyone wanting to join us PM me.
The yards in Ullenhall.


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## ischa (19 February 2008)

freezemarking i have all mine done its shows up propley so it puts the people off with microchip it doesnt


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