# Can a horse bolt from different riding style??



## Olliepoppy (14 November 2017)

Hi, new 13 year old mare purchased 2 weeks ago as a novice ride. Previously used for hacking (mainly alone) and home jumping. In the past has been shown in-hand. Rode on loose rein out hacking.

I tried her out and she was calm, steady, fairly unflappable in strong wind, past cows, tractors etc and rode nicely in an indoor school. Her previous owners stated she was always the same, no matter if you changed tack, went different routes, with or without other horses etc. Her rider had her in a Pelham but I tried her in a snaffle with no issues. Teeth had been checked 6 months ago, don't think back checked and saddle not professionally fitted.

First ride up and down farm track was to try out a saddle for fit. Asked for trot, well behaved, no problems, forward going 14.3hh who likes to be out and about.

Second ride up and down same farm track but ever so slightly further. Asked for trot, went straight into canter, brought back round easily. 

Third ride - lesson with instructor in imaginary arena in stubble field. Walk ok, slowing/speeding up using seat. Trot - same thing attempted but got heavier/stronger in hands. Felt she was getting annoyed with the tight contact (came with French link eggbutt). Instructor insists on good contact. Asked instructor to have a go as I'm not so confident after a nasty fall a year ago. She got on, walked around a couple of times, asked for trot and said novice ride sort of bunny hopped on the spot then took off like a bat out of hell across the field. Instructor stayed on (not sure I would have!) and brought her back across to field. Was end of lesson time anyway so we walked back to yard with no problems.

Contacted previous owners who said she had NEVER bolted with them in the 6 months they had her.  I am wondering whether the change in riding style could have confused her or if she objected to being 'held back'? Does anyone have any thoughts/experiences of this? I am concerned that my novice ride is not so novice!


----------



## paddi22 (14 November 2017)

how good is your instructor?  good contact isn't a tight contact and if they are teaching you that then i'd question their knowledge really. 

Have you had her teeth checked by a good dentist? she could have a mouth issue that the contact triggered?


----------



## KINDMARE (14 November 2017)

i think she probably needs time to settle in firstly. im by no means an expert but i think that horses get used to the same person riding them. if someone new gets on and sits and rides differently it may put a different pressure on a different part of the saddle/back. This may cause 'behaviour' issues. thats why sometimes when you go to try a potential new horse out and it misbehaves and the owner says 'oh he's never done that before' (yes - i know some are liars) that sometimes its the truth.
just take things slowly and get to know each other. Definatly get saddle/back/teeth checked so you can rule out any pain.


----------



## [59668] (14 November 2017)

Eesh what a horrible situation

I guess I would ask, why did they have her in a Pelham when you tried her, and why had they sold her after only 6 months?


----------



## Hipo (14 November 2017)

Is there any reason the previous owners only had the horse for 6 months?
* cross posted*


----------



## Olliepoppy (14 November 2017)

paddi22 said:



			how good is your instructor?  good contact isn't a tight contact and if they are teaching you that then i'd question their knowledge really. 

Have you had her teeth checked by a good dentist? she could have a mouth issue that the contact triggered?
		
Click to expand...

I've always thought she was a good instructor! Am going to get teeth checked as soon as possible.


----------



## Olliepoppy (14 November 2017)

The reason for sale was rider moving away to college. She said she just preferred using a Pelham but she didn't really need one so was no problem to go into a snaffle.


----------



## Tiddlypom (14 November 2017)

Umm, I once had a so called 'good instructor' with lots of qualifications who couldn't ride one side of my late maxicob. She used too much leg on him, and it panicked him. She blamed the horse rather than her inflexible approach to him. He went much better for me (I soon stopped having her).

If your horse has been used to being ridden 'legs off' and with a long rein, then someone starts trying to organise her into an outline all at once, it could come as a shock and lead to an unsettled horse.


----------



## Olliepoppy (14 November 2017)

She was fab when I tried her out, wouldn't have bought her if I didn't believe she was what the owners said she was. I guess I could've been duped but would like to think not. The bolt just seemed an extreme action for no apparent reason that I could tell. I am going to try her in an indoor school tomorrow (safer!) - on a loose rein/very light contact - and see how she goes, will be telling my instructor to refrain from any outline work for now.


----------



## paddi22 (14 November 2017)

Your instructors actions would raise a few red flags with me. I can't see how an 'imaginery arena in a stubble field' is a suitable place to have someone on a new horse learning about contact? The surface is wonky and horse could have been trying to balance itself on your hands a bit. Ground could have been stony or deep and horse could have been struggling and more on the forehand and felt heavier. If the horse has associated stubble fields with galloping and fun in the past, then it is difficult to get them into 'work mode' especially with a new rider.  A horse will usually feel heavier in the hands in a stubble field as it's probably gone up a few gears with excitement. Chances are you were probably nervous (cause of your previous fall) and were probably tense in your hands and the horse reacted. It really is not a great idea for a lesson working on contact! 

From reading as a stranger, it seems like you really had no issues until your instructor tried to do the stubble field contact work. I'd be giving the horse the benefit of the doubt if it was me, and I'd be side eyeing my instructor.


----------



## Sparemare (14 November 2017)

Mare was only with previous owner six months,  and she had never bolted with them? Hmm.


----------



## paddi22 (14 November 2017)

mares can be funny though. Some really can react strongly to different riders if they don't like them. I have one mare and if someone with a hot seat jumped up on her in a field and took up a very hard contact, she'd quickly show them who was boss.


----------



## paddi22 (14 November 2017)

how long did the bolt go on for op? was ait a blind panic bolt, or just a horse running through the reins and towing the rider off until they got control again? how long did it take instructor to stop them?

Some horses do anticipate a gallop as well in a stubble field if the rider takes the reins up. My eventer is a git for doing a bouncy plunge thing and wanting to go - and he would run off with a rider given the chance, but it's not a bolt.  If someone with a hot seat took up a strong contact in a stubblefield on some horses, I'd imagine they might get this reaction.


----------



## Olliepoppy (14 November 2017)

paddi22 said:



			Your instructors actions would raise a few red flags with me. I can't see how an 'imaginery arena in a stubble field' is a suitable place to have someone on a new horse learning about contact? The surface is wonky and horse could have been trying to balance itself on your hands a bit. Ground could have been stony or deep and horse could have been struggling and more on the forehand and felt heavier. If the horse has associated stubble fields with galloping and fun in the past, then it is difficult to get them into 'work mode' especially with a new rider.  A horse will usually feel heavier in the hands in a stubble field as it's probably gone up a few gears with excitement. Chances are you were probably nervous (cause of your previous fall) and were probably tense in your hands and the horse reacted. It really is not a great idea for a lesson working on contact! 

From reading as a stranger, it seems like you really had no issues until your instructor tried to do the stubble field contact work. I'd be giving the horse the benefit of the doubt if it was me, and I'd be side eyeing my instructor.
		
Click to expand...

Sigh.. it's not easy to know what/who is right.. All advice I have been given so far is to give the mare back but I feel as she's only been with me a couple of weeks it's not fair to put all the blame on her without giving her fair chance to settle and to get to know her properly. She is a dream to handle on the ground and in every other respect has been exactly as described. Maybe a steep learning for curve for me and my instructor!!


----------



## paddi22 (14 November 2017)

it was the instructor that she reacted badly to, not you. it sounds like she hasn't put a foot wrong with you.  

How experienced is your instructor - there are honestly some instructors that do more harm than good. And it's easier for them to make the horse look bad around a yard, rather than them. So honestly don't listen to people. You had no issue hacking the horse previously, it didn't feel spooky, and you happily had breaks coming back from canter.  Two weeks is no time at all to settle a horse in as well.


----------



## Olliepoppy (14 November 2017)

My instructor is an experienced, fearless rider - used to strong, challenging horses. Her teaching experience isn't as long as her riding experience. To my relatively inexperienced eye this mare appears to be very sensitive. When ridden she walks/trots from the lightest aid and if working in a round pen or loose in the schooling field she requires very little action from me to get her to move. Maybe the instructor is too heavy handed for her. I, on the other hand, am always being accused of being too soft! The mare does take a wee bit to stop as she seems to really enjoy going and I wonder if this is why a Pelham was used previously. Perhaps I should ditch the instructor for a while, believe in myself a bit more and just get to know this girl!


----------



## Olliepoppy (14 November 2017)

paddi22 said:



			how long did the bolt go on for op? was ait a blind panic bolt, or just a horse running through the reins and towing the rider off until they got control again? how long did it take instructor to stop them?

Some horses do anticipate a gallop as well in a stubble field if the rider takes the reins up. My eventer is a git for doing a bouncy plunge thing and wanting to go - and he would run off with a rider given the chance, but it's not a bolt.  If someone with a hot seat took up a strong contact in a stubblefield on some horses, I'd imagine they might get this reaction.
		
Click to expand...

To me it appeared to be a blind panic bolt as she just took off after a couple of bunny hops, but it could've been towing off I suppose. It looked very dramatic with mud flying everywhere and the horse bouncing through puddles! I would say she went 250-300 yards before coming under control.


----------



## Sparemare (14 November 2017)

Was she on sales livery when you bought her or did you buy her direct from the previous owners?


----------



## Olliepoppy (14 November 2017)

Sparemare said:



			Was she on sales livery when you bought her or did you buy her direct from the previous owners?
		
Click to expand...

I got her direct from the previous owners


----------



## Ambers Echo (14 November 2017)

I usually ride with very long reins and a very light contact. My instructor got on Amber to show me what he wanted - and took much firmer hold. She objected pretty strongly to it and at one point looked like she was going to completely lose it - not something she has ever done with me. So yes some do react differently to different riding styles. Amber was having more of a tantrum though than bolting. She was clearly annoyed rather than frightened. 

It's early days and I'd  give the mare the benefit of the doubt for now... but with a red warning flag in your mind as I'd also take what the owners say with a pinch of salt. They presumably knew they were going to college 6 months ago when they bought her!?  I once had a pony who was fantastic 95% of the time but utterly unpredictable and would just bolt/buck/rear out of nowhere. I made every excuse under the sun for him but he was basically just not a safe pony. He was sold to me as a novice ride too. Which he was until he wasn't!


----------



## Goldenstar (14 November 2017)

TBH I have seen horses in new homes do all sorts of biazzre thinks I rode C several times before I bought him ,then kept him at livery at his old home for several weeks riding him every day and taking him away to clinics the first morning I got on him at home he reared and span round when I got on him ,pretty extreme reaction never did it again .
On your horse OP that Pelham tells you something .


----------



## Olliepoppy (14 November 2017)

Amber's echo - there's definitely red flags in mind! I thought the same about the college reason, guess time will tell..


----------



## Olliepoppy (14 November 2017)

Goldenstar said:



			TBH I have seen horses in new homes do all sorts of biazzre thinks I rode C several times before I bought him ,then kept him at livery at his old home for several weeks riding him every day and taking him away to clinics the first morning I got on him at home he reared and span round when I got on him ,pretty extreme reaction never did it again .
On your horse OP that Pelham tells you something .
		
Click to expand...

Bizarre how she wasn't strong at all when I rode her though..


----------



## GirlFriday (14 November 2017)

Horse to enjoy and/or bring on for the summer; see how the grades are (go to college near or far away...); seems perfectly plausible (doesn't mean it is true, but it could be); teenager with plenty of 'fashionable' tack with a pelham likewise!

Horse fine with you but not instructor - try different instructor...


----------



## planete (15 November 2017)

Yes, definitely.  I had to ditch a few instructors who thought grabbing hold of my arab or arab crosses' mouths was a good idea.


----------



## ycbm (15 November 2017)

Mud flying and puddles in a stubble field? Where your instructor insists on trying to teach you a stronger contact than you or the pony are used to, and then gets on and picks a fight?

I'm with the others who say dump the trainer. They may be used to riding difficult horses so much that they actually like the battle and unconsciously create it.


----------



## Olliepoppy (15 November 2017)

Thanks all for your views, sound thoughts and opinions. Brave pants on today to try her again, but not in a stubble!


----------



## scats (15 November 2017)

Two things that stand out to me- previous owner rode in a Pelham and they only had her 6 months.  There may be totally reasonable explanations for both of these, but given that we don't know the people and are just going by the info you have given, this rings slight alarm bells for me.

I would probably spend a few weeks just you and the horse in an enclosed space, getting to know one another.  Ride her like you rode her when you went to try- same level of contact etc.  You should get a pretty good idea soon whether there is an issue with this horse or if the instructor and stubble field combination was just a bit much too soon.


----------



## Olliepoppy (15 November 2017)

Thanks scats, good advice, am taking her to an indoor school this afternoon so will see how we get on!


----------



## Meowy Catkin (15 November 2017)

She pulled up after 250 - 300 yards. That's *not* a bolt. So I think that should put your mind at rest, she didn't bolt, she bogged off with a rider who rode her in a manner that she wasn't used to and objected to. The environment was not conducive to a successful schooling session anyway. 

The way I read the description, the horse was pretty much set up to fail from the start. My first rule when training horses is to set them up to succeed, make it easy for them to do the right thing.

I would also get a different instructor and I would be tempted to put her back in the pelham to see if she's happier in that, they aren't the work of the devil and they do suit some horses very well. I had a pony on loan years ago who went sweetly in a kimblewick, he was much, much happier in that than a jointed snaffle.


----------



## Olliepoppy (15 November 2017)

Faracat said:



			She pulled up after 250 - 300 yards. That's *not* a bolt. So I think that should put your mind at rest, she didn't bolt, she bogged off with a rider who rode her in a manner that she wasn't used to and objected to. The environment was not conducive to a successful schooling session anyway.
		
Click to expand...

That's good to hear! It's difficult when you trust someone to do the right thing for you and your horse but your not 100% sure it was the right thing. All your comments have helped me decide to give the mare a chance and just take things easy. Her previous owners said her only negative was she was difficult to catch so they left a headcollar on when riding her regularly and took it off when not. I have spent time working on that and I can now catch her no problem (in less than 2 weeks) so maybe she's not so trusting of certain people?!


----------



## paddi22 (15 November 2017)

Mares can be funny like that. I have a friend's little rescue mare here, and she is the sweetest thing ever but she went through a lot of share homes because she would buck anyone off she doesn't like. At the moment I have a really sweet 11 year old kid riding here and the two of them adore eachother and there has never been an issue. My own mare is a total one person horse too.   I don't think it's a trust thing with mares, they either seem to like and respect a person, or they don't. 

I know if someone got up on my little mare with an 'i'l show you attitude', she'd be disgusted and would have no problem saying 'em, actually I'l show YOU'!


----------



## Olliepoppy (15 November 2017)

By letting me catch her hopefully she's showing signs of liking me then!! &#55357;&#56842;


----------



## planete (15 November 2017)

"I would also get a different instructor and I would be tempted to put her back in the pelham to see if she's happier in that, they aren't the work of the devil and they do suit some horses very well. I had a pony on loan years ago who went sweetly in a kimblewick, he was much, much happier in that than a jointed snaffle."

This.  Some horses are not suited to a jointed bit.  My lipi/arab was in a small port mullen mouth all his life, either snaffle or pelham.  You just could not convince him to take a jointed bit without trying to spit it out. One of my pure bred arabs on the other hand would only have jointed bits.


----------



## Apercrumbie (15 November 2017)

A couple of thoughts to add to all of the above:

a) schooling in a stubble field. Many horses are galloped in stubble fields, if she has been before it is only natural that she would be wanting a blast and frustrated at being made to go round in circles.

b) amount of work. From your post (and do correct me if I'm wrong) it doesn't sound as if she is being worked very much. A hack here and there, walk, bits of trot. This sounds like a recipe for an over-energised horse! She may need to be in harder work to keep her calm - this is perfectly normal and doesn't mean she isn't safe. 

c) is her feed the same as with her previous home? If so, is the level of work? Be honest about this - walk isn't work for a horse, extended periods of trot and canter are so if she was being worked harder in her previous home, not only will she be fit and full of energy, she will now be getting too much feed for her current workload.

d) bit. Put her back in a Pelham, provided your hands are good enough for such a strong bit. If they're not, sort that pronto.

So for now, I wouldn't school in a stubble feed, I would make sure she is getting good long hacks with lots of trot work plus schooling sessions where she works hard, and I would make sure I wasn't over-feeding her. That should be a good start for you both.


----------



## Alec Swan (15 November 2017)

[59668] said:



			&#8230;&#8230;.. , and why had they sold her after only 6 months?
		
Click to expand...




Olliepoppy said:



			The reason for sale was rider moving away to college. &#8230;&#8230;.. .
		
Click to expand...

So the vendor having bought the horse 6 months earlier didn't know that they'd be going to college in 6 months time?  &#8230;&#8230;.. well I suppose that they may be telling the truth,  possibly.

I haven't read further than the two quotes above,  but I'd take two certain routes here;  I'd seek out all the local vets around the owner and ask if the horse was registered with them and were they aware of any issues,  health-wise or other-wise,  and then I'd seek out someone who's local to you who comes very well recommended and pay their time to have them come over and ride the horse.

From your description of the mare's behaviour,  I suspect that what ever is wrong has been wrong for some while,  sorry.

Alec.


----------



## GTRJazz (15 November 2017)

My horse bolted in the arena it was his saddle he had filled out and got really fit but the saddle pinched him. I had a saddler round to check it but she made the problem worse buy over flocking. I purchased a new wide saddle and he stopped doing it almost straight away.


----------



## ycbm (15 November 2017)

I'd seek out all the local vets around the owner and ask if the horse was registered with them and were they aware of any issues,  health-wise or other-wise,.
		
Click to expand...

Legally they cannot give you this information, it would be in breach of the Data Protection Act. Sorry Alec.


----------



## GirlFriday (15 November 2017)

Alec Swan said:



			So the vendor having bought the horse 6 months earlier didn't know that they'd be going to college in 6 months time?  .. well I suppose that they may be telling the truth,  possibly.
		
Click to expand...

Plenty of people (a) buy to have a summer project and/or (b) need to get particular grades for a particular college so don't know until the last minute where they will be going - my second choice was right near my previous home; my first (which I didn't think I'd get into, but did) was in a different city.


----------



## Olliepoppy (16 November 2017)

She's not being fed. She was worked 5 times a week over the summer but that dropped to once or twice when owner went to college. Had her in an outdoor arena yesterday. She was very well behaved other than wanting to rush everywhere. It's like she only knows walk and turbo! Hopefully regular schooling will sort this out and long hacks but stubble fields are definitely out for now!!


----------



## Apercrumbie (16 November 2017)

Don't worry, you can work up to stubble fields!


----------



## eggs (20 November 2017)

My first pony (13.2 hh Highland cross) was a bit of a character and like another poster mentioned was actually better in a Kimblewick than a jointed snaffle.

A friend was having a lesson on him with the local well known dressage rider/trainer.  She decided to get on him and said pony then refused to go forwards and started running backwards and actually went straight through the post and rail field fencing snapping the rails in the process.  So yes, different riders can get different reactions.

That being said selling the horse on after only six months would ring alarm bells with me as would having an instructor who thought it was a good idea to give a new combination a lesson in a stubble field, encountered a problem (and I agree this horse did not bolt) but did nothing to try to fix it as the lesson was at an end.


----------



## Olliepoppy (20 November 2017)

Thankfully she has been fine since, in fact hasn't put a foot wrong. She's had 2 schooling sessions doing walk and trot and 2 hacks out, only in walk but has been very well behaved. So fingers crossed it was just bad timing/lack of knowledge/wrong location etc


----------



## Meowy Catkin (20 November 2017)

Fantastic.  I hope that it was a blip that isn't ever repeated.


----------



## Olliepoppy (20 November 2017)

Faracat said:



			Fantastic.  I hope that it was a blip that isn't ever repeated.
		
Click to expand...

You and me both..!! &#55357;&#56834;


----------



## SEL (21 November 2017)

My big lad is retired now but his sweet nature vanishes in open fields! I can just see him schooling nicely right up until the minute he decided to bog off with no brakes. He was always hacked in a Pelham.

Good to hear you're getting on well. If a horse has experience of lots of fun gallops across the stubble it can make them forget their manners....


----------



## Orangehorse (22 November 2017)

Glad to hear that things are improving.  I had a mare once that was an angel to handle and on the roads, but once got grass under her feet she became a raving lunatic, I guessed that every time she had been ridden in a field she had galloped.

It wasn't a mistake I made with the next 2 horses I owned!


----------



## Equi (22 November 2017)

Horse who is ridden in a pelham on a loose rein only screams a horse that doesnt like contact and will run away from it, pelham needed for when this happens.


----------



## Alec Swan (22 November 2017)

Orangehorse said:



			&#8230;&#8230;.. I had a mare once that was an angel to handle and on the roads, but once got grass under her feet she became a raving lunatic, I guessed that every time she had been ridden in a field she had galloped.

&#8230;&#8230;..
		
Click to expand...

We have a pony mare here and with her previous and youthful owners,  she was used as a go-cart.  The brother of the owner had a little motor bike and Poppet was used to race against it!  Now,  should she hear a motorbike in the distance,  she's still ready for the Off,  and she's 23 years old!  She's sort of Advanced of forward-going! 

Olliepoppy,  well done and it seems that stubble is out,  at least for a while!  Show her a ploughed field and see if she wants to tank off on that! 

Alec.


----------



## Olliepoppy (22 November 2017)

Another hack out this morning in the pouring rain and again didn't put a foot wrong, we have walked across 2 stubble fields a day she has behaved impeccably, haven't gone any faster than a walk yet though! She is still in the snaffle and accepting the contact in walk. So far, so good!


----------



## Olliepoppy (23 November 2017)

Haha Alex! Love your description of Poppet &#128512; we tried trot today, it was definitely turbo! She seems to only have 2 gears, walk and leg it! LOTS of schooling required before we attempt more than a walk in a stubble lol. We've done the ploughed field, she's not a fan! &#128514;


----------

