# Rubber riding surfaces are banned in the EU



## LaCheval (10 July 2012)

I'm posting this as I see so many people are still opting for rubber when installing a riding arena, but:

*Rubber Riding Surfaces Are Banned In The EU*

This has already been put in place by the EU, but the suppliers are strongly denying it.

Even worse - for those who already have it, you will be asked to remove it or face heavy fines.

Plenty about this if you look on the search engines, also mentioned here:

[Content removed]

To anyone thinking of putting rubber down as a riding surface, don't do it.
Sand works beautifully, looks pleasing to the eye and doesn't have that awful smell that new rubber menages have.


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## cptrayes (10 July 2012)

Orange and white sand is not allowed in the west of the Peak National Park. Dark surfaces are mandatory. That's going to cause a few problems!


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## cptrayes (10 July 2012)

I cannot see anything on the site that you point to saying that rubber is illegal, it seems to be advertising their supply of arena surface though.

Can you please point us to the stuff that says rubber is illegal?


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## Tinsel Trouble (10 July 2012)

The EU waste directive states that you need a waste carriers licence if you are going to recieve recycled hazardous material (i.e. tyres in it's many recycled forms). Make sure the installer you use is up to date on all of the latest waste regs, and they should help you fill in the forms to supply to your local authority. It's a ball ache, but helps stop less savoury activities such as hoarding tyres in great quantities and the environmental issues that causes!


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## cptrayes (10 July 2012)

I have googled it and found nothing. Sounds like you are scaremongering LaCheval?


TT the EU waste directives are so complicated that I have read pronouncements by top UK and EU judges which say that they are simply impossible to understand and make a black and white judgement on them. It is arguably the case that once the tyre has been reprocessed into the form used for arenas that it is no longer a "waste product" and that no licencing is required. 

The point is also that you need a "carriers licence" only if you are going to carry it. Most people would not fetch their own rubber and whether their supplier has a carriers licence or not is of no concern to the buyer.

It is my belief that the "no longer waste once reprocessed" argument applies to an arena build and I would be very interested to hear whether a single person in this country has ever been told to remove a rubber arena surface unless it is directly polluting a water source with runoff.


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## cptrayes (10 July 2012)

I have reported this thread to Fatty. 

It is incredibly scare-mongering to tell people 




			for those who already have it, you will be asked to remove it or face heavy fines.
		
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  Not "might", but "will". Really? Also, I can't find any reference on the site pointed to about what  La Cheval is warning about, and I think this may simply be an advertising scam to get click-throughs to that site.  Which would be why I can't find a thing about it on Google either. 

Please take no notice of the dire warnings until Fatty decides whether it's above board or not.


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## mutley75 (10 July 2012)

Don,t you think we can just read, go and do a bit of research and, then make an informed decision as to weather or not this is scaremongering?


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## MerrySherryRider (10 July 2012)

I think you are incorrect.

 Rubber tyres are banned from landfill, therefore, an essential part of the UK's (and everywhere else) stragedy is to encourage recycling businesses to find uses for used car tyres.


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## MerrySherryRider (10 July 2012)

mutley75 said:



			Don,t you think we can just read, go and do a bit of research and, then make an informed decision as to weather or not this is scaremongering?
		
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Why waste time researching misinformation ? Of course, the OP may just be using the title as a ruse for advertising as the link is rather a strange one for the poster to have chosen (and repeated elsewhere).


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## LaCheval (10 July 2012)

I certainly agree it appears not to be a widely known fact, but it's something that came to my attention last year when I was looking for a surface for a new riding arena. So many environmental aspects to this too (BTW; It's mentioned on a couple of pages on the aforementioned site), and after doing a bit of research it's not a road I would go down as even if I was misled in any way. The fact remains that it is still banned by the EU re landfill.

Other reasons I wouldn't go for it:

'When a synthetic riding surface comes to the end of its life span anyone with it will have to pay to have it landfilled, and with landfill costs spiralling this one day may cost as much to dispose of the arena surface as it was to put it in. You would also have to pay for the transport to the nearest landfill site which could be some considerable distance.

Whole tyres were banned from landfill in July 2003 with shredded rubber or anything with a rubber content following suit in 2006, so when rubber perishes, you cannot burn it, you certainly cannot dump it, and since 2006 you cannot send to landfill either.

Another point to bear in mind is if you are one day going to sell your property - as all this becomes more common knowledge within the public domain - prospective buyers will be viewing a very costly disposal problem, as when the surface disintegrates they cannot get rid of it.

Rubber tyres, contrary to popular belief, are not made from pure rubber,  they contain poisonous heavy metals like zinc and cadmium, hydrocarbons, latex and sulphur-containing compounds and since 2006 under the EU Directive shredded tyres (what riding surfaces are made from) is be classed as hazardous waste, hence their ban from landfill'. 

Web site not about menages specifically, but about rubber and rubber crumb:
www.paghat.com/rubbermulch.html

I didn't ask any of the suppliers of rubber surfaces the following as I decided I woudn't take the risk installing rubber, but my guess is in reply they would just pass over this question with sales patter about how long the surface would last etc etc

Maybe more of us should ask: "When the rubber surface comes to the end of it's life, where and how do I dispose of it?"

NB: I've just spotted a reply re the link on the original post saying it could be advertising, it was just put there as a reference, but as I cannot now edit it out, maybe whoever moderates this site will remove it.


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## cptrayes (10 July 2012)

mutley75 said:



			Don,t you think we can just read, go and do a bit of research and, then make an informed decision as to weather or not this is scaremongering?
		
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Of course you can. What the poster cannot do is advertise on this forum and I have alerted Fatty to the likelihood that this is what is happening here, since the site contains no information whatsoever of any relevance.  It even says that rubber "may at some point in the future" be subject to EU rules, not that it is now, so it could even be downright misleading.


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## cptrayes (10 July 2012)

La Cheval can I ask you please if you have any connection with the arena build materials advertising site to which you have pointed us?




			When a synthetic riding surface comes to the end of its life span anyone with it will have to pay to have it landfilled
		
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This is not correct.  Most people would find a use for such material on their own site and if it does not leave your site it is not subject to any additional regulations or costs. That's in the EU directive too.





			'When a synthetic riding surface comes to the end of its life span anyone with it will have to pay to have it landfilled, and with landfill costs spiralling this one day may cost as much to dispose of the arena surface as it was to put it in. You would also have to pay for the transport to the nearest landfill site which could be some considerable distance.

Whole tyres were banned from landfill in July 2003 with shredded rubber or anything with a rubber content following suit in 2006, so when rubber perishes, you cannot burn it, you certainly cannot dump it, and since 2006 you cannot send to landfill either.
		
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Make your mind up. Will we have to pay to have it landfilled, or is it illegal to landfill? Your post is not making sense.


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## Honey08 (10 July 2012)

I'd agree with Cptrayes on this one.  Really dodgy thread, and anti rubber posts on other threads that mention rubber schools..

My friend owns a processing plant for rubber tyres that takes all the harmful bits out of them and leaves them perfectly safe to use in a school.

I've never heard of a school with rubber "coming to the end of its life", most people I know just top them up.

I would be amazed if a survey on a new house threw up the fact that the rubber in the manege was possibly illegal too!


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## LaCheval (10 July 2012)

cptrayes said:



			can I ask you please if you have any connection with the arena build materials advertising site to which you have pointed us?
		
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No connection whatsoever. May I ask if you have any connection with any suppliers of said rubber.

You say 'if it does not leave your site' - if the old rubber surface is not removed, what other function can it perform without becoming an environmental (or any other) hazard?

I understand that you say the last part of the post does not make sense, what I was trying to say is that as the EU have banned this material from landfill, IF it was allowed it would cost a lot of money to have it done, so either way it causes a problem.

To sum up, I'm not here to debate this, it's a forum and I was merely passing on what I have been told or have read. I think most people are sensible enough to make up their own minds, and they will do that regardless of how much you get yourself worked up over this.


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## rhino (10 July 2012)

Are rubber surfaces the new ragwort, something for us Brits to get all hysterical about?


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## MerrySherryRider (10 July 2012)

rhino said:



			Are rubber surfaces the new ragwort, something for us Brits to get all hysterical about?  

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I was thinking Dutch and Ragwort in pretty much the same way. Do Cinibar moths eat rubber tyres too ?

OP,passing on information is fine as long as its correct. Rubber in menages is not banned. Rubber in landfill is. 
Quite different especially as the government is positively encouraging companies to find a way to re use the by product from the motor industry.


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## Booboos (10 July 2012)

OP are you in France? As far as I know you can't use rubber for arenas in France due to waste disposal laws, but I don't know of anything similar in the UK.


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## Goldenstar (10 July 2012)

rhino said:



			Are rubber surfaces the new ragwort, something for us Brits to get all hysterical about?  

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I not strong enough!!!


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## cptrayes (10 July 2012)

rhino said:



			Are rubber surfaces the new ragwort, something for us Brits to get all hysterical about?  

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You got there before me!  I was about to ask if her name was Esther 

OP I am not getting myself worked up about this and unlike you I seem to have actual knowledge of how the law is applied to "waste" in this country. I believe that you are scaremongering for no good reason.

I too am puzzled as to why you think my sand and rubber arena will ever "wear out". Wood fibre rots and needs replacing, but rubber is just topped up when it gets thin. 

I have no connection with rubber suppliers, no. But I have an enormous allergy to people who scare others unnecessarily with statements like this, when they are wrong and go on to say that people will have trouble selling their houses.




			Rubber Riding Surfaces Are Banned In The EU

This has already been put in place by the EU, but the suppliers are strongly denying it.

Even worse - for those who already have it, you *will* be asked to remove it or face heavy fines.  (my emphasis)
		
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## Sussexbythesea (10 July 2012)

I can categorically say that you can use waste rubber in arena surfaces in this country. 

http://www.environment-agency.gov.u...s/U8_Use_of_waste_for_a_specified_purpose.pdf

However there might be issues with disposal if you ever had to remove the whole surface and you wouldn't just be able to do with it what you wanted it even on your own land that would depend on whether you had discarded it or simply were using it for another purpose. The trouble is in the push to divert waste from landfill means some uses are not fully thought through and the full life-cycle of the waste is not always considered. I'm sure it could be burnt as a fuel in a combustion plant if separated from any sand.

More info on tyres
http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/business/topics/waste/114455.aspx

Tinseltrouble
Tyres are not hazardous waste and duty of care and being registered as a waste carrier basically applies to the carriage of all controlled wastes by businesses (except their own at present - with some exceptions and this may change). If a waste is hazardous you also need to consign the waste. 

In this country to receive / treat/ use/ recover/ dispose etc. waste you need an Environmental Permit or for low-risk waste operations you can register an exemption (i.e. an exemption from the need to have a permit).


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## LaCheval (11 July 2012)

cptrayes said:



			You got there before me!  I was about to ask if her name was Esther
		
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What on earth are you talking about?



cptrayes said:



			I too am puzzled as to why you think my sand and rubber arena will ever wear out
		
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Again, what are you talking about, how would I even know what arena you had.



cptrayes said:



			I have an enormous allergy to people who scare others unnecessarily with statements like this
		
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An allergy, you poor old thing, but the relevance of that is what?




cptrayes said:



			for those who already have it, you will be asked to remove it or face heavy fines. (my emphasis)
		
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Yes, your emphasis, so in fact a misquote.


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## lachlanandmarcus (11 July 2012)

its odd: on the saddle post further down OP seems quite sane, but this post....hmmmm....


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## Goldenstar (11 July 2012)

The ragwort lady probally sounds quite sane unless she's on her " soapbox"


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## cptrayes (11 July 2012)

Can't see why I thought using "will" rather than "might" is an issue?

Pretty sure now, that her name really is Esther Hegt.  Do cinnabar moth caterpillars eat tyre rubber?


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