# Digging up foxes



## ladyaga (18 February 2015)

Is this correct, I have to day seen a script of A4 telling a friend how this hunt digs up foxes, bags them and where they do it and why, is this allowed, I can tell you the hunt concerned, I was a little surprised that this was given to me, all the names are there, as to who has said this and that, and who was doing this deed, and which days they needed the foxes for. I was under the impression they used a rag to put up the scent.


----------



## Smurf's Gran (18 February 2015)

Contact the police. Illegal hunting and operating outside the law helps no one - or you could pass the info to your MP


----------



## ladyaga (18 February 2015)

Smurf's Gran said:



			Contact the police. Illegal hunting and operating outside the law helps no one - or you could pass the info to your MP
		
Click to expand...

I thought it was a bit off, then I was also told once they are bagged, and its mainly for sat meets, they spray the eyes of the animals so as to hinder there running away. I have found this so upsetting.


----------



## Smurf's Gran (18 February 2015)

There is currently a thread on the go titled "ban all hunts"  where a number of very pro hunt posters are of the belief that illegal activity does not exist.  I hope you don't mind but I have copied your original post onto it.
As to your findings, it is criminal activity and as such its against the law.  Also very cruel, Good Luck with it.


----------



## Alec Swan (18 February 2015)

ladyaga said:



			Is this correct, I have to day seen a script of A4 telling a friend how this hunt digs up foxes, bags them and where they do it and why, is this allowed, I can tell you the hunt concerned, I was a little surprised that this was given to me, all the names are there, as to who has said this and that, and who was doing this deed, and which days they needed the foxes for. I was under the impression they used a rag to put up the scent.
		
Click to expand...

Before you level accusations at others,  you will need clear evidence of the offence.  My own view is that your accusations,  though possibly well intentioned by you,  are scurrilous poppycock.  If a fox were to be 'dug up' as you put it,  and then taken to an area which was unfamiliar to it,  turned out and then hounds set upon it,  there would be no hunting,  because the fox not familiar with the ground where it's released,  simply wouldn't run.  A wild fox,  which has been dug out and released beside the earth,  will make good its escape because it will be fully aware of its immediate environment.  The same fox,  taken miles from its home ground won't provide sport and so it would be a complete waste of time.

These frankly daft accusations which have no foundation in truth,  are all so often banded about by those who are more intent on mischief than fact.  I accept that you may well believe the story that you've been told,  but I don't,  not one word of it.  Sorry.

Alec.


----------



## Alec Swan (19 February 2015)

Smurf's Gran said:



			There is currently a thread on the go titled "ban all hunts"  where a number of very pro hunt posters are of the belief that illegal activity does not exist.  I hope you don't mind but I have copied your original post onto it.
As to your findings, it is criminal activity and as such its against the law.  Also very cruel, Good Luck with it.
		
Click to expand...

Do feel free to copy mine as well! 

Alec.


----------



## Moomin1 (19 February 2015)

Alec Swan said:



			Before you level accusations at others,  you will need clear evidence of the offence.  My own view is that your accusations,  though possibly well intentioned by you,  are scurrilous poppycock.  If a fox were to be 'dug up' as you put it,  and then taken to an area which was unfamiliar to it,  turned out and then hounds set upon it,  there would be no hunting,  because the fox not familiar with the ground where it's released,  simply wouldn't run.  A wild fox,  which has been dug out and released beside the earth,  will make good its escape because it will be fully aware of its immediate environment.  The same fox,  taken miles from its home ground won't provide sport and so it would be a complete waste of time.

These frankly daft accusations which have no foundation in truth,  are all so often banded about by those who are more intent on mischief than fact.  I accept that you may well believe the story that you've been told,  but I don't,  not one word of it.  Sorry.

Alec.
		
Click to expand...

Mm.  I do see what you are saying, however, having released many a fox over the years in areas which aren't necessarily that familiar to that individual, then I would say they can and do leg it pretty pronto ;-) 

That being said, I am also careful not to believe every allegation made by Joe Public against an individual or organisation, as you are more than aware Alec. ;-)


----------



## Alec Swan (19 February 2015)

Of course a released fox will leg it once released,  but rest assured that with no sense of direction,  and with a pack of hounds behind it,  the fox would be overtaken in such a short distance that the fox may just as well be thrown in to the kennels.

If foxes have been removed from one area,  to be placed in another,  would that not be exactly the same thing as your kindly act?  Even were the intent behind the two actions to be totally different,  the result would be the same,  no?

Alec.


----------



## Moomin1 (19 February 2015)

Alec Swan said:



			Of course a released fox will leg it once released,  but rest assured that with no sense of direction,  and with a pack of hounds behind it,  the fox would be overtaken in such a short distance that the fox may just as well be thrown in to the kennels.

If foxes have been removed from one area,  to be placed in another,  would that not be exactly the same thing as your kindly act?  Even were the intent behind the two actions to be totally different,  the result would be the same,  no?

Alec.
		
Click to expand...

I do see what you are saying Alec.  

I don't see how such an act as mentioned in the OP would benefit a hunt.  But, that also being said, it takes all sorts out there to do bizarre things, as I also witness regularly so it wouldn't surprise me in all honesty.


----------



## Alec Swan (19 February 2015)

Moomin1 said:



			I do see what you are saying Alec.  

I don't see how such an act as mentioned in the OP would benefit a hunt.  But, that also being said, it takes all sorts out there to do bizarre things, as I also witness regularly so it wouldn't surprise me in all honesty.
		
Click to expand...

There has never been any shortage of those who 'cheat' in all walks of life obviously,  but I would be VERY surprised that any established pack,  with a view to any form of continuity of the ethics of Hunting,  would stoop to such levels where the killing of the quarry was the only function.  Accepting that there are those who disagree and fundamentally so,  with hounds pursuing a fox,  those who keep an open mind,  as I know that you do,  will (I would hope) accept that Hunting is more than just the death of a fox.  It's a whole package which includes the ridden followers who won't be too impressed with a gallop of 100 yards,  it includes those who are all so often foot followers who will have their interest in Hound work,  and there are those who see it as a bit of a social jolly.  None of those mentioned would be too impressed with a pastime where the fox had no chance of escape,  and was killed within the first dash.  It would all be pointless,  just as is the suggestion that foxes are routinely bagged,  carted and then murdered.  It simply doesn't make sense.

Alec.


----------



## Moomin1 (19 February 2015)

Alec Swan said:



			There has never been any shortage of those who 'cheat' in all walks of life obviously,  but I would be VERY surprised that any established pack,  with a view to any form of continuity of the ethics of Hunting,  would stoop to such levels where the killing of the quarry was the only function.  Accepting that there are those who disagree and fundamentally so,  with hounds pursuing a fox,  those who keep an open mind,  as I know that you do,  will (I would hope) accept that Hunting is more than just the death of a fox.  It's a whole package which includes the ridden followers who won't be too impressed with a gallop of 100 yards,  it includes those who are all so often foot followers who will have their interest in Hound work,  and there are those who see it as a bit of a social jolly.  None of those mentioned would be too impressed with a pastime where the fox had no chance of escape,  and was killed within the first dash.  It would all be pointless,  just as is the suggestion that foxes are routinely bagged,  carted and then murdered.  It simply doesn't make sense.

Alec.
		
Click to expand...

I completely understand your point Alec. 

Who knows, it's an odd one, and I suppose we will never find out on HHO whether the allegation in the OP is true or not lol!


----------



## popsdosh (19 February 2015)

LOL end of the season and they are having their last fling!
If you have such evidence and are so appalled it would be better to take it to the police and let them have it rather than raising it on here and diminish the chance of a conviction! 

Trolls are very popular in fairy stories!


----------



## Sherston (19 February 2015)

Excellent, a thread that starts on the anniversary of the ban based on a friends note written on A4 that includes all the names and what was said to incriminate them passed to someone unrelated to the hunt who then innocently decides to posts on here, not understanding if it is ok or not??......... Well that must be enough evidence to throw them all in jail. 

Seriously!


----------



## Dry Rot (19 February 2015)

Thank goodness for the freedom of expression we all enjoy in this country! Those who seek to stir up trouble by publishing nonsense and lies are usually quickly exposed through the application of a little logic and reason. I totally agree with Alec (but don't always! ). Hopefully, this sort of thing will teach people to be a little cynical of what they read and always question what is said without the support of hard evidence.

An interesting discussion on Radio 4 this morning about genuine impartial journalism and those who write simply to sell a product or get across the latest piece of propaganda. Sometimes best to read these things with a healthy suspicion. If they had genuine evidence, wouldn't it be in court already?


----------



## ladyaga (19 February 2015)

Alec Swan said:



			Of course a released fox will leg it once released,  but rest assured that with no sense of direction,  and with a pack of hounds behind it,  the fox would be overtaken in such a short distance that the fox may just as well be thrown in to the kennels.

If foxes have been removed from one area,  to be placed in another,  would that not be exactly the same thing as your kindly act?  Even were the intent behind the two actions to be totally different,  the result would be the same,  no?

Alec.
		
Click to expand...

How dare you be so cock sure of your self, I was if your read it properly, handed a 10 page script taken form the internet, of private messages from one person to another, both with their names on the a4 pages, of a conversation between them, with clear and concise info about where when and who are doing this. I asked the forum if it was correct. So push off know all, it is being done to satisfy the sat's twits, and as I know from country file last week, they should be chasing a rag laid trail.


----------



## Alec Swan (19 February 2015)

Dry Rot said:



			Thank goodness for the freedom of expression we all enjoy in this country! &#8230;&#8230;..
		
Click to expand...

Apparently so!  See above!! 

Alec,  pushing off,  as requested!


----------



## madmav (19 February 2015)

It's nothing to do with animal welfare. It's political. If your sabs actually cared about animals they'd go and save all those poor little battery hens and pigs etc. 
I know I'd rather take my chances as a wild fox than as one of those poor doomed sentient beings.


----------



## popsdosh (20 February 2015)

Or they could start with their own deer !!!


----------



## Dry Rot (20 February 2015)

Alec Swan said:



			Apparently so!  See above!! 

Alec,  pushing off,  as requested! 

Click to expand...

&#8230;and the rest of us can judge for ourselves and decide. 

I may not agree with what ladyaga says, but I will defend to the death her right to say it!


----------



## Countryman (20 February 2015)

Dry Rot said:



			Thank goodness for the freedom of expression we all enjoy in this country! Those who seek to stir up trouble by publishing nonsense and lies are usually quickly exposed through the application of a little logic and reason. I totally agree with Alec (but don't always! ). Hopefully, this sort of thing will teach people to be a little cynical of what they read and always question what is said without the support of hard evidence.

An interesting discussion on Radio 4 this morning about genuine impartial journalism and those who write simply to sell a product or get across the latest piece of propaganda. Sometimes best to read these things with a healthy suspicion. If they had genuine evidence, wouldn't it be in court already?
		
Click to expand...

Well said. Absolutely right!


----------



## The Fuzzy Furry (20 February 2015)

*sigh*
Half term has a lot to answer for 
Regular posters sure will be relived when bored children and students resume  their schooling 

edited to add, perhaps OP is not at school as he/she is up north and in Dorset


----------



## Tea Drinker (26 February 2015)

ladyaga said:



			Is this correct, I have to day seen a script of A4 telling a friend how this hunt digs up foxes, bags them and where they do it and why, is this allowed, I can tell you the hunt concerned, I was a little surprised that this was given to me, all the names are there, as to who has said this and that, and who was doing this deed, and which days they needed the foxes for. I was under the impression they used a rag to put up the scent.
		
Click to expand...

...and not to mention a "spray in the eyes" before they push the luckless fox into the path of the braying foxhounds, with drool and slather falling from the open jaws, literally mouth-watering over the prospect of chasing a poor, sweet, defencelss fox who has had "spray" put in their eyes. What fun this must be for those posh, half-breeds (clearly cannot be normal human beings) who just relish the thought of rounding up extra foxes, then physcially hamper them before setting them before their blood-thirsty beasts (hounds, not their own off-spring, silly!) ready to rip them to shreds.

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

I don't even need The Daily Mash to scroll through when we've got posts like these. Keep 'em comin' "ladyaga" although don't ever think of taking up a panellist spot on "Would I lie to you?" Not sure your tripe is ever going to get believed although you have provided me with a welcome laugh on a rainy, miserable day so for that, I sincerely thank you. Extra thanks for the "spray in the eyes" comment. Special.


----------



## Alec Swan (26 February 2015)

ladyaga said:



			Is this correct, I have to day seen a script of A4 telling a friend how this hunt digs up foxes, bags them and where they do it and why, is this allowed, I can tell you the hunt concerned, I was a little surprised that this was given to me, all the names are there, as to who has said this and that, and who was doing this deed, and which days they needed the foxes for. I was under the impression they used a rag to put up the scent.
		
Click to expand...

No problem,  name and shame the pack concerned and the names of those responsible,  and if it's proven,  then you will be taken seriously.  The behaviour that you describe,  if there is supporting evidence,  is disgraceful.  The simple fact,  and considering your thoughts further,  is that it's a load of nonsense.



ladyaga said:



			I thought it was a bit off, then I was also told once they are bagged, and its mainly for sat meets, they spray the eyes of the animals so as to hinder there running away. I have found this so upsetting.
		
Click to expand...

Are you quite sure that the animal isn't tied to a tree,  just to be sure that it can't escape?  Your suggestions are wandering in to the world of fantasy!   As above,  name and shame the packs concerned and the individuals,  if your able.

Just to add to the general nonsense;  I've got an A4 sheet and on it is written the undeniable facts,  that there are two sabs who are brother and sister and they live together as man and wife,  and have a child.  What's interesting,  is that their shared parents are also brother and sister,  which would lead one to consider that it's probably something of a tradition down in their neck of the woods.  Oh,  I forgot to mention that the child concerned doesn't have the arms and legs of normal humans,  it has four legs.  Sharing their home,  they have 3 rescued foxes who live loose in the house with about 20 guinea pigs,  and they all drink milk from the same saucer.  Sweet,  when you think about it,  isn't it? 

Alec.


----------



## stencilface (26 February 2015)

I'm not sure where all the ridicule comes from for the OP?  While in this instance it may indeed be false, if badger baiting still exists, is it so far fetched that someone might catch a fox for hounds to chase.  Not in my mind no.

Having met people who openly admit to catching foxes and 'training' their terriers on them in an enclosed barn - post ban I should add - I can well  believe that there are vile people around who would do just about anything for kicks.


----------



## Alec Swan (26 February 2015)

stencilface,  it may well be that I have a biased view,  but I believe that those who are a part of our established packs,  act in a civilised and ethical manner.  Those who are on the periphery of Hunting,  those who have no allegiance to any sort of ethics,  are set apart.  I've witnessed half-grown cubs tipped out of a sack,  into a stable,  and terriers being allowed to kill them.  I've witnessed it,  but would never take part in such a practice.  There's a reason for that;  I've never taken a captured hare or rabbit and released it for my lurchers to course,  firstly because the old adage that 'Cheats don't prosper' is as true with Hunting,  in what ever form as it is in life,  and secondly because when I've seen a wild and huntable animal released on to ground where it hasn't a clue where it is,  then it's no different from the cub thrown in to the stable.  It's pointless.

OF COURSE there are those who see nothing wrong in the stupidity which has been described by both the OP and others,  but I can't accept that any established Pack,  or those who see Hunting as sport,  would ever countenance such conduct.  It may happen,  but it doesn't in my world,  nor the world of any who I know.

Alec.


----------



## Tea Drinker (26 February 2015)

stencilface said:



			I'm not sure where all the ridicule comes from for the OP?  While in this instance it may indeed be false, if badger baiting still exists, is it so far fetched that someone might catch a fox for hounds to chase.  Not in my mind no.

Having met people who openly admit to catching foxes and 'training' their terriers on them in an enclosed barn - post ban I should add - I can well  believe that there are vile people around who would do just about anything for kicks.
		
Click to expand...

Of course they may well be people operating on the fringe who round up foxes/badgers/cockerals/hares and whatever else for immoral/unsporting/unethical purposes. But are these people going to jot it all down on A4 for general review?
And then top if off with silly, emotive "spraying in the eyes"?

This is fantasy, silly fodder for gullible ignorami to swallow up- hook, line and sinker. Deserves ridicule.


----------



## ladyaga (26 February 2015)

Well all I can say is that you are mostly all a lot of misbelieving chaps out there. I can tell you the hunt and the son of the Master involved, I do know for a fact this is true, and that the terrier man is also involved. Think what you like of me, run me down and make fun of me, but it is true, and will come out in the very near future. As I for one am going to hand this transcript into the police, in Doncaster asap.


----------



## Tiddlypom (26 February 2015)

ladyaga said:



			As I for one am going to hand this transcript into the police, in Doncaster asap.
		
Click to expand...

Go ahead and do that. If the information you have been given is correct, then the perpetrators need to to be dealt with forthwith.


----------



## millikins (26 February 2015)

But even staunch hunt supporters have agreed that if true, this is vile behaviour that is illegal, cruel and should not be countenanced. So why, 8 days since you first posted are you only now going to hand it in asap?


----------



## popsdosh (26 February 2015)

ladyaga said:



			I for one am going to hand this transcript into the police, in Doncaster asap.
		
Click to expand...

I said last week dont mess the case up by putting it on hear as the police will find it difficult to get that conviction. I look forward to hearing about it in the national press!


----------

