# Totilas and Uthopia



## Bearskin (19 August 2011)

Totilas 8000 (chilled) v Uthopia £800 (frozen).

Which is the better deal?  

Videos of both:  http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xk...age-grand-prix-championships-18-08-2011_sport


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## eventrider23 (19 August 2011)

I have loved Uthopia since he was a baby when Sasha first bought him and so for me it would be him all the way.  Only never used him as don't breed for dressage!  Otherwise he would be it for me!


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## stolensilver (19 August 2011)

Who is the better deal is impossible to say right now as we don't know how their offspring are going to perform. But Uthopia is linebred to Ulft, the most represented stallion at the Europeans. My money is on him being the better sire in the years to come.


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## maginn (21 August 2011)

I think if I remember rightly he is £1000 this year I had an email from Sacha with the rates at the start of the season as I used him last year.  Still great value though, and she also said she wasn't sure if he would be available next year because they want to concentrate on the Olympics. Think I got in just at the right time ! Which was partly due to recommendations on here (thanks folks !) and because I knew that Carl would be a good bet for producing the finished article and is so well thought of in the UK., which would make the foal more "fashionable" should I want to sell him, but the plan is to keep him. 

I would never pay £8k for a stud fee anyway, I would rather buy the finished article if I was spending that sort of money as there are no guarantees whatever the sire.


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## Tempi (21 August 2011)

I prefer Utopia to Totilas anyway so the choice would be easy for me irrelevant of the cost.


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## PapaFrita (21 August 2011)

Uthopia for me. Loved him in the vids at the Europeans.


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## FrodoBeutlin (21 August 2011)

I would prefer Uthopia right now, if I had a mare I guess Uthopia if I wanted to keep the foal, Totilas if I wanted to sell - Totilas foals are more "marketable" at the moment as they mostly go for crazy money irrespective of their quality.


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## eventrider23 (21 August 2011)

FrodoBeutlin said:



			I would prefer Uthopia right now, if I had a mare I guess Uthopia if I wanted to keep the foal, Totilas if I wanted to sell - Totilas foals are more "marketable" at the moment as they mostly go for crazy money irrespective of their quality.
		
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You say that but I heard of one at the Oldenburg auction that sold for 'only' 9000 euros......if you take into account stud fee, vets fees, etc then that is nothing....


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## Bearskin (21 August 2011)

eventrider23 said:



			You say that but I heard of one at the Oldenburg auction that sold for 'only' 9000 euros......if you take into account stud fee, vets fees, etc then that is nothing....
		
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I saw it online.  Was pretty ugly!  Not one of his best I suspect.


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## lauraandharvey (21 August 2011)

we have a 12 week old foal at yard by Uptopia


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## milo'n'molly (21 August 2011)

you can't just say that  more details whats she like?


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## cptrayes (21 August 2011)

Bearskin said:



			Totilas 8000 (chilled) v Uthopia £800 (frozen).

Which is the better deal?  

Videos of both:  http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xk...age-grand-prix-championships-18-08-2011_sport

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Utopia appears to be wearing wedge bar shoes and Totilas wears bar shoes. Should either be bred?


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## FrodoBeutlin (21 August 2011)

eventrider23 said:



			You say that but I heard of one at the Oldenburg auction that sold for 'only' 9000 euros......if you take into account stud fee, vets fees, etc then that is nothing....
		
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Think that's the exception that proves the rule, all of the others seem to go for mega money even when they are not terribly special.


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## FrodoBeutlin (21 August 2011)

cptrayes said:



			Utopia appears to be wearing wedge bar shoes and Totilas wears bar shoes. Should either be bred?
		
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Uthopia also had a lot of time off work due to injury, didn't he?


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## lauraandharvey (21 August 2011)

beautiful
sweet
nosey
brave

for now


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## christine48 (21 August 2011)

Rumour has it Uthopia's stud fee could be £5000 next year and one german breeder wanted 20 doses.


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## christine48 (21 August 2011)

There are 2 Totilas colts entered at next week's Olsenberg elite auction. Toto und Lotto out of a Donnerhall , Rubinstein mare and Tout le Monde out of a Rohdiamant, Pik Bube mare. Will be interesting to see what prices they reach.


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## stolensilver (21 August 2011)

FrodoBeutlin said:



			Uthopia also had a lot of time off work due to injury, didn't he?
		
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He's only 10 and he's doing international GP. He can't have had much time off or he wouldn't be competing at that level!


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## stolensilver (21 August 2011)

I think it is unlikely that Uthopia has had any time off with injury. His BD record has only one gap in it, from 2007-2009. In that time he goes from competing at Elementary in 2007 with Matt Frost and comes back out again in 2009 at PSG with Carl. 

Are you thinking of a different horse Frodo? 

http://www.britishdressage.co.uk/results/horse_record/21337


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## FrodoBeutlin (21 August 2011)

No it was definitely Uthopia, I am 100% sure, Carl was talking about his progress and mentioned an injury. This was at the press conference in Hagen back in the spring, I have the exact quote somewhere.

If no gaps in his competition records, maybe it was only a minor injury involving only a few months off


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## eventrider23 (22 August 2011)

I know his owner Sasha competed him for a little bit and I also remember it being said that he found the lower levels boring but trained fantastically at home and so they made the decision I believe to school him up and then bring him out at higher lever as the have done as it was never ring experience he needed as was always relaxed.


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## FrodoBeutlin (23 August 2011)

great, then it must have been something minor.


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## lynne_macleod (24 December 2012)

Hi Does anyone know if and where i can find info about Uthopia for breeding this coming season 2013, his web site doesn't seem to work.  Many Thanks


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## TheMule (24 December 2012)

lynne_macleod said:



			Hi Does anyone know if and where i can find info about Uthopia for breeding this coming season 2013, his web site doesn't seem to work.  Many Thanks
		
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I suspect, with his ownership in dispute, he won't be available fresh/ chilled till that's sorted and whether there's frozen or not depends on stock levels and who actually owns that...


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## cundlegreen (24 December 2012)

FrodoBeutlin said:



			I would prefer Uthopia right now, if I had a mare I guess Uthopia if I wanted to keep the foal, Totilas if I wanted to sell - Totilas foals are more "marketable" at the moment as they mostly go for crazy money irrespective of their quality.
		
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I wonder about the "marketable" bit now Totilas' career has stalled. Having seen quite a few of his foals on Youtube, they are nearly all lacking in quality AND movement IMO.


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## crabbymare (24 December 2012)

cundlegreen said:



			I wonder about the "marketable" bit now Totilas' career has stalled. Having seen quite a few of his foals on Youtube, they are nearly all lacking in quality AND movement IMO.
		
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I saw a few by him and the ones I liked best appear to have been stamped by the mare so assuming the semen is available and the terms are reasonable I would be looking at Uthopia as well


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## sallyf (25 December 2012)

lynne_macleod said:



			Hi Does anyone know if and where i can find info about Uthopia for breeding this coming season 2013, his web site doesn't seem to work.  Many Thanks
		
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The Uthopia frozen semen we have had for the last 2 seasons has come from West Kington so perphaps try them


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## sywell (25 December 2012)

I think the point is being missed which stallion will help to counter the defects in  your mare to produce a better foal the following of fashionable stallions is not a well thought through breeding policy unless you use them in their first covering season before people see what they produce,


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## JanetGeorge (28 May 2016)

Thought I'd bump this given one of them is under dscussion.  I still can't believe Uthopia has made so little.  If his stuf fee was dropped to say - £750 - he'd HAVE to attract at  least  50 mares a year - that's £37,500 - knock off £7,500 for costs.  So he's pay back  his purchase price/costs in under 6 years - and you could freeze a LOT in just a few years.

Of course he may not produce anything outstanding - but if Carl could be persuaded to bring on a few, there's a bloody good chance there'd  be a few  stars!


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## Alec Swan (28 May 2016)

JanetGeorge said:



			&#8230;&#8230;...  I still can't believe Uthopia has made so little.  If his stuf fee was dropped to say - £750 - he'd HAVE to attract at  least  50 mares a year - that's £37,500 - knock off £7,500 for costs.  So he's pay back  his purchase price/costs in under 6 years - and you could freeze a LOT in just a few years.

Of course he may not produce anything outstanding - &#8230;&#8230;.. !
		
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If you had a horse of that quality,  would you not have made more of his potential as a stallion?  Would you not have at least offered evidence of his semen quality?  Most would.  Was there any attempt to promote him via the route of his progeny?  He's 15 and would by now I'd have thought had some 5-10 year olds about.  He wasn't promoted as a Stallion,  and I wonder what that told the market

The horse was offered for sale amongst bling jewellery,  cars and exotic booze.  Surely those who advised the vendors would have realised the horse's potential,  if indeed potential was what he had.  Did the vendors not bother to seek advice,  and if they did,  was it ignored?  You may be right and he may show a healthy financial return,  but I very much doubt it.

I think that he was actually overpriced.  The price was at about what I expected,  imagining that along with the other Lots,  he'd be bought as bling,  but just where his worth is,  remains to be seen.

Alec.


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## crabbymare (28 May 2016)

at the current fee to get his purchase price back he would need 110 mares and then whatever else to cover the costs. he appears to only have been graded with kwpn so that restricts the stud books that offspring can be registered with. imagine if he had stood in holland and been approved for the german registries as well. simple numbers mean it could have brought him a much bigger market with regards to dressage mares and therefore increased his chance of producing foals and youngsters that would be advertising his qualities. however he is in the uk and we will just have to see who has bought him and what their intentions are for his future


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## PolarSkye (28 May 2016)

Alec Swan said:



			If you had a horse of that quality,  would you not have made more of his potential as a stallion?  Would you not have at least offered evidence of his semen quality?  Most would.  Was there any attempt to promote him via the route of his progeny?  He's 15 and would by now I'd have thought had some 5-10 year olds about.  He wasn't promoted as a Stallion,  and I wonder what that told the market

The horse was offered for sale amongst bling jewellery,  cars and exotic booze.  Surely those who advised the vendors would have realised the horse's potential,  if indeed potential was what he had.  Did the vendors not bother to seek advice,  and if they did,  was it ignored?  You may be right and he may show a healthy financial return,  but I very much doubt it.

I think that he was actually overpriced.  The price was at about what I expected,  imagining that along with the other Lots,  he'd be bought as bling,  but just where his worth is,  remains to be seen.

Alec.
		
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You might not, if you wanted him to stay at home, with you . . . 

. . . the point is, there's a LOT of speculation about Uti . . . and we won't know the real story until the dust has settled and whoever has him chooses to go public.  

To answer the original question - Uti all day long.  He was naturally balanced and didn't look over produced.  I know he has had some physical issues, but IMHO Totilas is pretty much broken and I believe that's down to his exaggerated movement.  I know I'll get shot down for this, but I don't actually care.  I'd much rather have progeny from a horse Carl Hester has produced than anything coming out of the Schockemohle barn.

P


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## JanetGeorge (28 May 2016)

Alec Swan said:



			If you had a horse of that quality,  would you not have made more of his potential as a stallion?  Would you not have at least offered evidence of his semen quality?  Most would.  Was there any attempt to promote him via the route of his progeny?  He's 15 and would by now I'd have thought had some 5-10 year olds about.  He wasn't promoted as a Stallion,  and I wonder what that told the market
		
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I certainly would have promoted him first as a stallion (and enjoyed having an odd ride in private, lol) but there are all sorts of possibilities for why this didn't happen.  The most likely might be that he behaves like a prat when horny and even a dummy mare sets him off.  But of course there has been the ownership dispute looming for a long time - why work to add to the value of your assets if there's unlikely to be anything in it for you.


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## PolarSkye (28 May 2016)

JanetGeorge said:



			I certainly would have promoted him first as a stallion (and enjoyed having an odd ride in private, lol) but there are all sorts of possibilities for why this didn't happen.  The most likely might be that he behaves like a prat when horny and even a dummy mare sets him off.  But of course there has been the ownership dispute looming for a long time - why work to add to the value of your assets if there's unlikely to be anything in it for you.
		
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. . . excellent point.

P


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## Alec Swan (28 May 2016)

JanetGeorge said:



			&#8230;&#8230;..) but there are all sorts of possibilities for why this didn't happen.  The most likely might be that he behaves like a prat when horny and even a dummy mare sets him off.  &#8230;&#8230;.. .
		
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I wasn't suggesting a public demo.  Rather that were he a stallion prospect,  then it would have helped his sale had he been offered complete with reliable and tested semen analysis reports,  both chilled and frozen.

Alec.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (28 May 2016)

I think they got a good price, so sales strategy paid off.


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## webble (28 May 2016)

Wow horse semen sells for a lot more than bull semen,  I'm in the wrong job


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## be positive (28 May 2016)

webble said:



			Wow horse semen sells for a lot more than bull semen,  I'm in the wrong job
		
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But with almost 2 million dairy cows in the uk there will be far more bull semen required each year, most stallions will be used less than 100 times annually so I suspect you probably are in the right job.


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## webble (28 May 2016)

be positive said:



			But with almost 2 million dairy cows in the uk there will be far more bull semen required each year, most stallions will be used less than 100 times annually so I suspect you probably are in the right job.
		
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Very true, and of course I love it, just need to keep the industry going


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## JanetGeorge (29 May 2016)

Alec Swan said:



			I wasn't suggesting a public demo.  Rather that were he a stallion prospect,  then it would have helped his sale had he been offered complete with reliable and tested semen analysis reports,  both chilled and frozen.

Alec.
		
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lol, Alec - I wasn't suggesting that.  I was suggesting reasons he hadn't previously been promoted as a stallion.  Lots of stallions aren't competed during the collection season, and others aren't collected when they have important competitions.  

I have to say, if I was the buyer (and I'm not - my husband would have killed me) I'd be keeping it quiet until I had a BIG promotion campaign prepared - and while FB and HHO were dong half the work for me.


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