# Taught Mr G to rear on command in-hand :)



## Lucinda_x (23 November 2011)

After reading a few things about trick training i decided to put a command to my horses playful skills on the lunge! Sometimes he rears when he's playing on the lunge so i stuck a command to it and he has picked it up very quickly! 

This is a video of it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsYdLudQ_C0 

For any health and safety people seeing the video with him lifting his hindleg..im sorry for not wearing a hat! He is just playfull  

He's turning out to be incredible, doing anything you ask of him! If your intrested in seeing more of him rearing an the leadup to that video there is a full video on my channel  

Hope you enjoy it 
Lucy


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## Persephone (23 November 2011)

Utterly Idiotic. I am astounded.


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## ATrueClassAct (23 November 2011)

I can't see the fun in scaring a horse then giving it a treat. But maybe I'm just weird.


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## Lucinda_x (23 November 2011)

Sorry you dont agree with it but you dont have to post.


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## tallyho! (23 November 2011)

Why?? Are you going to sell him to a circus?


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## JFTDWS (23 November 2011)

It's ok I'm idiotic too 







In fact, I must be worse:


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## tallyho! (23 November 2011)

Lucinda_x said:



			Sorry you dont agree with it but you dont have to post.
		
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Neither do you - especially how to teach a horse to rear. Rather you kept that to yourself.


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## tasteofchristmaschaos (23 November 2011)

So he goes to kick you, and you reward him with a treat... unbelievable....


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## Lucinda_x (23 November 2011)

JustFindingTheDecorations said:



			It's ok I'm idiotic too 






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We can be idiotic together  

No i am not selling him to a circus. I am having fun.


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## FanyDuChamp (23 November 2011)

Sorry but as the owner of a rearer I sincerely advise you to stop now and hope your horse forgets it, because rearing is dangerous. Not a trick but dangerous to all around the horse. 
FDC


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## ATrueClassAct (23 November 2011)

You could make it slighty better and worn a hat, ESP since you knew he was going to rear. 
What you all do in your spare time is nothing to do with me, however if it's something that's slightly out of the ordinarily/dangerous your gonna get some bad reactions.


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## Lucinda_x (23 November 2011)

None of you know me and my horse so therefore I do not think you can make an accurate judgement on the situation. I am having a bit of fun with a horse I have owned for the last 6 years and have a strong trust with.


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## JFTDWS (23 November 2011)

RedNosedFany said:



			Sorry but as the owner of a rearer I sincerely advise you to stop now and hope your horse forgets it, because rearing is dangerous. Not a trick but dangerous to all around the horse. 
FDC
		
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Actually, training a horse to rear (or perform otherwise undesirable behaviours) on command is a recognised (though not universally accepted) way to prevent it being performed without request.


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## Enfys (23 November 2011)

Persephone said:



			Utterly Idiotic. I am astounded.
		
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Why? Do you mean teaching him to do it on the lunge? I didn't see the video so don't know if you are referring to something on that.

It is logical to me, teach him to rear on command then stop asking him for it, simple. I had an arab that did the same, worked for him.


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## SuperCoblet (23 November 2011)

Agree with FDC here. Gypsy is well known for his rearing, started by some idiot who taught him to in the first place. He then became seriousualy dangerous to the fact not one person would want to ride him. I suggest now you've had your fun now to stop before he takes advantage, it can go wrong all so quickly.
What's even worse is the fact you gave him a treat, when he kick out at you?


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## ATrueClassAct (23 November 2011)

Weve had one 13.2hh mare 22 years but we wouldn't ever try that. Kissing is much safer.


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## tallyho! (23 November 2011)

Can see Mr G is a character - I still can't see why you would use his intelligence to teach him to rear on command though.


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## stencilface (23 November 2011)

I think there is a difference in the methods of training that the OP and JFTD both use (from looking at video and pics).  Flashing a lunge whip in front of your horse, along with flicking the lunge line doesn't seem like a great idea tbh 

Really hope you never have to sell, a friend 'trained' her horse to rear, it then did it all the time, and ended up doing it, and running into a lorry on the road, it didn't end well


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## Trot_On_Dressage (23 November 2011)

I am amazed by how stupid that is! Why, why, why????  

Lets hope he dosnt do at that any other time when you handle him. I think you have just made your bed and i am sure you will be lying in it at some point.


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## katherinef (23 November 2011)

you were lucky then you nearly got booted in the face  when he kicked out...
Not funny when he rears with someone sitting up on top - its a dangerous habit no horse should learn
Your horse your pigeon...until the habit becomes someone else's problem...


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## Lucinda_x (23 November 2011)

Trot_On_Dressage said:



			I am amazed by how stupid that is! Why, why, why????  

Lets hope he dosnt do at that any other time when you handle him. I think you have just made your bed and i am sure you will be lying in it at some point.
		
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Sorry what?


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## tallyho! (23 November 2011)

Has someone been to TROLL SCHOOL??


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## JFTDWS (23 November 2011)

ATrueClassAct said:



			however if it's something that's slightly out of the ordinarily/dangerous your gonna get some bad reactions.
		
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That's fine - but it doesn't make you right.  Trick training isn't new, but there are a lot of misconceptions about it.  I don't think the horse in the video looks scared.  I know that mine aren't when I ask them to rear - they know what's being asked and they know exactly how much they are expected to offer.  

I know a lot of trick trained horses none of whom display rearing as a vice, but I know plenty of traditionally trained animals whose owners have never taugh them such behaviours who rear dangerously.  All horses know how to rear - teaching them to do it on command won't make them do it randomly without provocation.

Don't sell him, though, OP


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## Persephone (23 November 2011)

Blitzenfys said:



			Why? Do you mean teaching him to do it on the lunge? I didn't see the video so don't know if you are referring to something on that.

It is logical to me, teach him to rear on command then stop asking him for it, simple. I had an arab that did the same, worked for him.
		
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OP clearly states it is being taught as a trick.

It won't be so funny when he does it in the field in a moment of excitement, boots her in the head and then has to be sold on as a rearer.

For instance.


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## Jackson (23 November 2011)

Ooh controversial 

It's up to you what you do with your horse, and trick training is fun, but I think you have to be careful with stuff like this.. it does have the potential to ruin* your (lovely) horse who is evidently a bit cheeky


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## Lucinda_x (23 November 2011)

I apologies to anyone who does not agree with me doing this with my horse, but in the end he is my horse, and if this causes problems, it is down to my stupidity. Feel free to critise me all you like and tell me how stupid and dangerous this is, but at the end of the day he is my horse, and my choice with what to do with him. So sorry if you do not agree!


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## FanyDuChamp (23 November 2011)

iamSanta said:



			Agree with FDC here. Gypsy is well known for his rearing, started by some idiot who taught him to in the first place. He then became seriousualy dangerous to the fact not one person would want to ride him. I suggest now you've had your fun now to stop before he takes advantage, it can go wrong all so quickly.
What's even worse is the fact you gave him a treat, when he kick out at you?
		
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This! 
You may think we are old fuddy duddys but I can tell you a horse rearing straight up is a dangerous animal. Now JFTD says they won't learn to do without the command, I don't agree Captain accidentally removed a field gate when his friend called him, later that week he was seen practising and now removes them whenever he wants to come in! They learn and they adapt. So be careful what you teach! Who is to say one day he won't just do it because he fancies a treat? Captain will say please for a treat, your horse might rear for one.
FDC


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## thatsmygirl (23 November 2011)

Oh my god, totally stupid. What the hell are you playing at


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## ShadowFlame (23 November 2011)

He looks thrilled that you're doing that, really. Next time he turns to kick you after you scaring him into a rear, maybe you'll be a little closer. 

Astounds me. Genuinely.


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## Trot_On_Dressage (23 November 2011)

Persephone said:



			OP clearly states it is being taught as a trick.

It won't be so funny when he does it in the field in a moment of excitement, boots her in the head and then has to be sold on as a rearer.

For instance.
		
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Exactly. 

Stupid girl comes to mind  I dont think she will find it so amusing when he hurts her, poor horse.


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## stencilface (23 November 2011)

My horse can rear all by himself on the lunge, learnt that when once I was lungeing him, the lunge line clip broke (whilst I was lungeing in our 6 acre field, something I have done many times) and he pegged off 

I got him back, and everytime he got to the point on the circle where he 'escaped' he reared, took me the whole session (half an hour) to get that neat 'trick' out of him


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## Puppy (23 November 2011)

Good lord....  

Why on earth would you want to do that? 

OP, have you ever been kicked in the face?


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## ClassicG&T (23 November 2011)

i can understand you wanting to teach your horse tricks on command, but maybe kissing or something instead of rearing? rearing on command can turn into rearing whenever the horse damn well likes, seen it too many times. 
Tricks like these where it could turn dangerous in inexperienced hands are best left to pros eg Spanish Riding school.


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## JFTDWS (23 November 2011)

Stencilface said:



			I think there is a difference in the methods of training that the OP and JFTD both use (from looking at video and pics).  Flashing a lunge whip in front of your horse, along with flicking the lunge line doesn't seem like a great idea tbh 

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I don't even own a lunge whip?   The schooling whip doesn't go near the horse other than to touch his legs and give the aid to move them - it's an extension of my arm...

(mine won't ever be for sale, btw)


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## thatsmygirl (23 November 2011)

Trolls on a night in I thinks!!!


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## Sugarplum Furry (23 November 2011)

If he reared as a vice when you first got him, and you taught him to do it only on command so you could stop him doing it I would understand your motives. But I suspect this isn't the case. He kicked out at you at the end of the vid, and not only did you step back but you went on to reward him with a treat, can you not see where this will lead?


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## Lucinda_x (23 November 2011)

I dont even know what a troll is! Sorry that you dont agree but i dont know how to apologies for everyone who is shocked.


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## TigerTail (23 November 2011)

I've read on here for ages but was actually compelled to join cos of this video!

I have nothing against teaching tricks provided you know what you're doing and you have your TIMING spotless. OP you do not. And as has been so bluntly pointed out its fairly silly to play with fire unless you're the one holding the matches....

If you've got a horse that does these things already sometimes teaching a cue and rewarding for doing it on cue and ignoring the other times works as a tool to take the weapon factor away from the horse.

OP what you actually did, if you watch the video back critically, is to reward him kicking out, not the rear. Instead of him standing side on to you and you going to him, id be asking him to come to me, in a controlled manner, for the reward - establishing you as boss as you are moving his feet not vica versa. 

Your timing needs to be much much quicker so he connects the 
command -> rear -> reward as the sequence not you messing about with the rope, looking at the cameraman then nearly getting kicked before giving him a treat. NEVER EVER give him a treat for lashing out with his hindlegs!!!

I look forward to seeing the progress!

PS wear a hat!!!


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## rockysmum (23 November 2011)

Lucinda_x said:



			I apologies to anyone who does not agree with me doing this with my horse, but in the end he is my horse, and if this causes problems, it is down to my stupidity. Feel free to critise me all you like and tell me how stupid and dangerous this is, but at the end of the day he is my horse, and my choice with what to do with him. So sorry if you do not agree!
		
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I agree, its your horse, do what you like.

BUT if you ever get fed up of him, or cant afford him, or any other reason why you need to move him on.  Please dont.

Apart from a very limited market of people who think this is clever, your horse will be unsaleable.

Be prepared to have him PTS if no-one with similar ideas to yourself wants him.

I hope for his sake you can give him a home for life because no-one else will want to.


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## tallyho! (23 November 2011)

well actually rearing is nothing.

I once taught my horse to hang out the washing!!!!


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## MotherOfChickens (23 November 2011)

I have no problem with a horse being taught to rear on command, safely and using a command that's not easy to mistakenly give. but the way Mr G has his bum tucked in while kicking out at you should tell you that he's not happy or at all sure what you are about.


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## thatsmygirl (23 November 2011)

It's ok I will buy him as a meat money project off you when he's ruined totally


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## Natz88 (23 November 2011)

RedNosedFany said:



			Sorry but as the owner of a rearer I sincerely advise you to stop now and hope your horse forgets it, because rearing is dangerous. Not a trick but dangerous to all around the horse. 
FDC
		
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I am with this I am the owner of a rearer (or he was a rearer) took me at least 2yrs to get him out of it. I am not judging you as he is your horse so it's up to you what you do with him, but do be careful. If your goign to carry on with it at least wear a hat...


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## JFTDWS (23 November 2011)

RedNosedFany said:



			This! 
 Now JFTD says they won't learn to do without he command
		
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Actually I didn't say that - plenty of horses learn to do it without any form of input from their trainers.  What I mean is that by teaching them to do it on command, it is a logical progression to teach them not to do it on command.

My horses are definitely smart enough to differentiate between being asked to do something (and therefore being rewarded) and not being asked to do it (when they don't expect a reward!)...


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## tallyho! (23 November 2011)

Not only that, my horse can do the fandango!!!!

Yeah, beat that!!!!!


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## stencilface (23 November 2011)

JustFindingTheDecorations said:



			I don't even own a lunge whip?   The schooling whip doesn't go near the horse other than to touch his legs and give the aid to move them - it's an extension of my arm...

(mine won't ever be for sale, btw)
		
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I wasn't suggesting you did   The rears you posted pics of seem to be controlled, under command rears, whereas the OPs seems to be a scared 'get that whip outta my face rear' - 

I was trying to point out a difference, obviously not very well!


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## Enfys (23 November 2011)

Persephone said:



			OP clearly states it is being taught as a trick. Yes, I read that, we are going to have to agree to disagree here I think 

It won't be so funny when he does it in the field in a moment of excitement, boots her in the head  No, indeed it would not, but can't any horse go up or lash out at times of excitement, stress? and then has to be sold on as a rearer. No *responsible* person that has trained a horse - to do anything - sells it on without an instruction manual as it were. It doesn't make them unsellable 

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...


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## 3Beasties (23 November 2011)

TigerTail said:



			I've read on here for ages but was actually compelled to join cos of this video!

I have nothing against teaching tricks provided you know what you're doing and you have your TIMING spotless. OP you do not. And as has been so bluntly pointed out its fairly silly to play with fire unless you're the one holding the matches....

If you've got a horse that does these things already sometimes teaching a cue and rewarding for doing it on cue and ignoring the other times works as a tool to take the weapon factor away from the horse.

OP what you actually did, if you watch the video back critically, is to reward him kicking out, not the rear. Instead of him standing side on to you and you going to him, id be asking him to come to me, in a controlled manner, for the reward - establishing you as boss as you are moving his feet not vica versa. 

Your timing needs to be much much quicker so he connects the 
command -> rear -> reward as the sequence not you messing about with the rope, looking at the cameraman then nearly getting kicked before giving him a treat. NEVER EVER give him a treat for lashing out with his hindlegs!!!

I look forward to seeing the progress!

PS wear a hat!!!
		
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Ditto! (Great first post btw, welcome to the forum!  )

I have no problem with you teaching him to rear if that's what you want to do but as Tiger Tail said you rewarded him for kicking out at you. Have a treat ready in your hand to reward him after the rear and please wear a hat, you were so lucky that you didn't get you kicked in the face in that vid 

ETA - Just because the OP posts something that you don't agree with it DOESN'T mean she is a troll, think some of you are a bit confused as to what a troll is!

And also just because the horse is being trained to rear on command it does not make it unsellable or only worth meat money  Plenty of horses rear out of sheer excitement/naughtiness but it doesn't mean they should be PTS!


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## tallyho! (23 November 2011)

Not only that, my horse can vacuum!!

I pay him a treat an hour for 3 hours work.


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## tallyho! (23 November 2011)

Welcome TigerTail.

Happy posting


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## jessikaGinger (23 November 2011)

i wouldnt usually comment on these kind of posts

but when i was younger a friend of mine had taught hers to rear, he was brill at it never went up too high never got giddy
until one day he lost his footing went over banged his head on a fence post blood coming from every hole possible vet came bang bang he was dead

Is it really worth it for your own entertainment?


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## tallyho! (23 November 2011)

Oh yes.... and he can iron my shirts!!!

And he looks a bit like Jimmy Carr!!!!

Amazing.


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## Chestnuttymare (23 November 2011)

well whatever floats your boat. I don't really know what the benefit would be though. Also if you have to ever part company with him then it could be his downfall. You might tell the next person about his clever trick but they might forget to tell the person after that and then there is a problem, he won't be a pony with a party trick, he'll be a rearer!  I am a wee bit concerned that when you bent down to pick the bottle off the floor, Mr G kicked out at you. That didn't look like too much of a playful thing to me and then if you actually watch carefully, he  steps his hind leg towards you again an and only changes his mind when he notices that you have a treat and it distracts him. It is very subtle but horses body language pretty much is. If he is so quick to learn, perhaps he has just learned to kick at you too.

ets Puppy, that must have made your blood run cold!


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## Persephone (23 November 2011)

tallyho! said:



			Oh yes.... and he can iron my shirts!!!

And he looks a bit like Jimmy Carr!!!!

Amazing.



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Now that I am impressed with


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## JFTDWS (23 November 2011)

tallyho! said:



			Not only that, my horse can do the fandango!!!!

Yeah, beat that!!!!!




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I taught my highland to Gay Gordon with me.  No joke.



Stencilface said:



			I wasn't suggesting you did   The rears you posted pics of seem to be controlled, under command rears, whereas the OPs seems to be a scared 'get that whip outta my face rear' - 

I was trying to point out a difference, obviously not very well! 

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I see, I re-read your post and I see what you mean - I thought you meant we were both using the same method of waving whips and lunge lines (I do most of my training with the highland competely loose in the field like the photo below, which is rubbish 'cos I was trying to use the timer on my camera, but illustrates my point that he isn't stressed by my request - he chooses to be there!).  I misunderstood 'cos I'm having a thick evening


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## FanyDuChamp (23 November 2011)

tallyho! said:



			Not only that, my horse can vacuum!!

I pay him a treat an hour for 3 hours work.



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Send him round here, my stairs need doing!  Well you are at it don't suppose you could teach him to clean ovens? Mine is getting done on Friday but if your pone can do it I'd be grateful!
FDC


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## tallyho! (23 November 2011)

Persephone said:



			Now that I am impressed with 

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Well don't think you can have him.... oh no. He's about to release his new "how do press collars DVD".

On the shelves for xmas


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## Trot_On_Dressage (23 November 2011)

tallyho! said:



			Oh yes.... and he can iron my shirts!!!

And he looks a bit like Jimmy Carr!!!!

Amazing.



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Ha! Can i burrow him? i have a mountain of housework that needs doing.

Oh, can he wash up?


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## tallyho! (23 November 2011)

RedNosedFany said:



			Send him round here, my stairs need doing!  Well you are at it don't suppose you could teach him to clean ovens? Mine is getting done on Friday but if your pone can do it I'd be grateful!
FDC
		
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Hmmm.... ovens.... tricky 

geddit???




Oh dear, ok, que for my bedtime methinks... night all and god bless.


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## Mancha (23 November 2011)

I think your time would be much better spent trying to improve the bond that you and your horse have. He doesn't look like a happy horse to me  
I appreciate it's only a short video clip, but i would be mortified if i thought my horse had deliberately tried to kick me in the head, because yours did!


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## Paint Me Proud (23 November 2011)

video has now been removed by the OP - however i did manage to watch it before it was removed and I too was shocked when the horse struck out and was then rewarded.

This is not a safe activity to teach your horse


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## Devonshire dumpling (23 November 2011)

Blimey you really have had it tough from alot of people here!!

Nothing wrong with what you have done, but it's all about timing as others have said you have rewarded some negative behaviour, you may find it easier to get a clicker.... so you click the second a rear comes then feed the treat after!

One of my friends a very knowledeable lady with a 17.2 IDxTB was loose schooling hers once and the horse ran up to her and she raised both hands to shoe her away and this triggered a rear, then a word was placed with it, and she learnt from that day, that horse wouldn't have dreamt of doing it under saddle, or whilst being handled was literally whilse loose,  so perhaps you need to rethink when you want the horse to rear as perhaps whilst attached to you isn't such a great idea, i am not sure, perhaps seek advice from a trainer?

i personally think teaching a horse to kiss you on the face with its lips is dangerous, imagine if it took your nose off lol


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## rockysmum (23 November 2011)

Oh dear, the video has disappeared, I wonder why!!!!!!


I need some tips on teach mine to clean my car out, sod the house, I spend more time in the car.


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## skydancer (23 November 2011)

Op, if you stand by your opinion that training your horse to rear is so good my question to you is....Why have you removed the video?????????


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## Lucinda_x (23 November 2011)

I removed the video because i could not tolerate anymore. Someone will proberly repate it in words though if you wish to know what happened to my future 'meat market rearer'.


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## JFTDWS (23 November 2011)

I'd pay more than meat money for him


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## Devonshire dumpling (23 November 2011)

Lucinda_x said:



			I removed the video because i could not tolerate anymore. Someone will proberly repate it in words though if you wish to know what happened to my future 'meat market rearer'.
		
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awwwwwwww  your horse you do what you want with him, don't let other people upset you!


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## 3Beasties (23 November 2011)

JustFindingTheDecorations said:



			I'd pay more than meat money for him 

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Me too 

Just looked at some of your other vids, he's a lovely chap and you ride him really nicely  He's got quite a pop in him!!


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## Trot_On_Dressage (23 November 2011)

Can you not see why we are mostly cross with you and dont think that was such a good idea?

I would imagine after watching your vid and the others you have uploaded that you are a novice. Teaching your horse to rear is not something a novice should be doing. I dont really understand why anyone would want to teach this but can appreicate that for the likes of the devils horseman stunt team it can be of benefit. But for an average low level young girl it seems to me you are playing with things you do not understand and it is likely that you will at some point get hurt.  What will happen to your horse after that?


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## mle22 (23 November 2011)

I haven't watched the video but when I was a child (many years ago!) my brother and me taught his little 12.2 pony to rear on command when being ridden He remained the safest child's pony ever and we thought it thought it was the best thing ever. We could imagine he was a splendid stallion!


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## rhino (23 November 2011)

Trot_On_Dressage said:



			I would imagine after watching your vid and the others you have uploaded that you are a novice. Teaching your horse to rear is not something a novice should be doing.
		
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She's actually a very talented rider, with a current national title I believe? (Sorry if I'm getting you mixed up with someone else) 

But I agree I'm afraid, silly trick taught badly  I too knew a horse who was put down for rearing and badly injuring his owner - the same owner who had taught him that rearing and putting his front legs on her shoulders was a really cute trick when he was a youngster (and a hand reared one at that).


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## Chestnuttymare (23 November 2011)

Lucinda_x said:



			I removed the video because i could not tolerate anymore. Someone will proberly repate it in words though if you wish to know what happened to my future 'meat market rearer'.
		
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I know some of the comments seemed harsh but it wasn't just for the sake of being nasty, people genuinely saw something that could be dangerous to you and maybe not do your pony any favours in the long run, Of course people with trick ponies teach them the tricks but mostly they are people in circuses who have been brought up doing that sort of thing and have a different skill set to us 'normal' riders. 
Perhaps you didn't see it from any other angle than you had a clever pony and he had learned quickly. Quite often that is the problem, they can be as quick to learn bad stuff as to learn good stuff. 
Please see the advise for what it is and not just a chance to biatch at you.


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## 3Beasties (23 November 2011)

Trot_On_Dressage said:



			I would imagine after watching your vid and the others you have uploaded that you are a novice. Teaching your horse to rear is not something a novice should be doing. I
		
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A novice, Seriously?! I guess everyone has a different view on what a novice is but I wouldn't say this girl is one. Watching the vids I saw a confident rider having fun and competing her horses, nothing Novicey about her!


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## Jesstickle (23 November 2011)

These guys must be retarded too then  Look, they don't even wear hats

http://rochousenyc.com/blog/?tag=the-spanish-riding-school-in-vienna


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## Devonshire dumpling (23 November 2011)

festnuttyfairy said:



			I know some of the comments seemed harsh but it wasn't just for the sake of being nasty, people genuinely saw something that could be dangerous to you and maybe not do your pony any favours in the long run, Of course people with trick ponies teach them the tricks but mostly they are people in circuses who have been brought up doing that sort of thing and have a different skill set to us 'normal' riders. 
Perhaps you didn't see it from any other angle than you had a clever pony and he had learned quickly. Quite often that is the problem, they can be as quick to learn bad stuff as to learn good stuff. 
Please see the advise for what it is and not just a chance to biatch at you.
		
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Some of the comments were just plain bitchy and nasty, with the view to hurt her feelings !


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## Dolcé (23 November 2011)

Just a word of warning about teaching them kissing too, I nearly lost my top lip and cheek with this one, something I had done a million times before and thought nothing of.  Trust me, when a horse bites and means it then it REALLY hurts and is incredibly powerful, can do a lot of damage!  I will never put my face near a horse's mouth again and constantly watch the children when around them.


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## Perce (23 November 2011)

skydancer
"Op, if you stand by your opinion that training your horse to rear is so good my question to you is....Why have you removed the video?????????"

Poster clearly posted because she was excited about doing something new with her horse. Whilst several posters left negative comments with good intentions, there were several that were downright rude. Videos of our horses are pretty personal things. I don't think I'd leave a video of me and my beloved horse on show if I was given so much criticism!

Having met the OP and her gorgeous horse i would say they have a very close bond and her horse is a real star. 

I can see that many people are concerned about what the OP is doing, and want to warn her against it, but those doing so with tact will probably be more successful in getting anyone to consider their actions .


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## JFTDWS (23 November 2011)

rhino said:



			I too knew a horse who was put down for rearing and badly injuring his owner - the same owner who had taught him that rearing and putting his front legs on her shoulders was a really cute trick when he was a youngster (and a hand reared one at that).
		
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Teaching a youngster to rear is, imo, unwise.  Darach is the only one of mine who doesn't - because I don't know whether I will be able to trust him or not.

I taught Fergs because he had already displayed a tendancy to rear when stressed (out hacking as a 4 year old).  I figured I had nothing to lose other than to teach him to balance better, and potentially get more control with a "stop" command.  It has thus far worked...


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## Roasted Chestnuts (23 November 2011)

From the owner of a rearer STOP IT!!!

I spent the first 6 months of owning my mare trying to get her to STOP rearing!!!


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## tasteofchristmaschaos (23 November 2011)

Devonshire dumpling said:



			Some of the comments were just plain bitchy and nasty, with the view to hurt her feelings !
		
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I can only remember reading one bitchy comment (although I've been skim reading so may have missed some) and I don't agree with it but I think the majority of us are genuinly shocked, so may come across bluntly. Teaching your horse to rear is one thing, which I would never do, but if she wants to do it, with the possible repecussions, that is her decision. I think what most people are shocked at the fact she cannot see she rewarded her horse for going to kick her. Maybe she didn't notice at the time but you can clearly see him stepping back, putting ears back and kicking out in the video. This is a dangerous thing for not just her, but anyone who comes into contact with the horse, and she needs to realise that.


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## JFTDWS (23 November 2011)

Jess, if you want I will show you Fergs "buttons" when you come done?  If you want to ride him after seeing what he does?

I often get asked how I differentiate it from rein back.  The aids for rein back are completely different - legs back behind the girth, weight slightly forward.  Walk on is a normal leg position / seat.  Go up is a forward leg position with seat back / weight central.  I can differentiate between those 3 without any problems.  I can't, for some reason, reliably differentiate between rein back and turn on the forehand at the moment though


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## Chestnuttymare (23 November 2011)

Devonshire dumpling said:



			Some of the comments were just plain bitchy and nasty, with the view to hurt her feelings !
		
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fair enough, but i was trying to make her feel better!


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## rockysmum (23 November 2011)

Trot_On_Dressage said:



			I would imagine after watching your vid and the others you have uploaded that you are a novice. Teaching your horse to rear is not something a novice should be doing. I dont really understand why anyone would want to teach this but can appreicate that for the likes of the devils horseman stunt team it can be of benefit. But for an average low level young girl it seems to me you are playing with things you do not understand and it is likely that you will at some point get hurt.  What will happen to your horse after that?
		
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Now that was just mean and unjustified.  Not the first time either.


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## Devonshire dumpling (23 November 2011)

tasteofchristmaschaos said:



			I can only remember reading one bitchy comment (although I've been skim reading so may have missed some) and I don't agree with it but I think the majority of us are genuinly shocked, so may come across bluntly. Teaching your horse to rear is one thing, which I would never do, but if she wants to do it, with the possible repecussions, that is her decision. I think what most people are shocked at the fact she cannot see she rewarded her horse for going to kick her. Maybe she didn't notice at the time but you can clearly see him stepping back, putting ears back and kicking out in the video. This is a dangerous thing for not just her, but anyone who comes into contact with the horse, and she needs to realise that.
		
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Why are you telling me this??  Don't skim read, go back and read it properly, I have advised the owner to get a clicker so she can reward later, she needs to reward for the rear not the cheeky lashing out!... and I don't think she has argued that she shouldn't have rewarded for the kick I think she has been tryint to defend her actions for the rearing, but its not our business.....


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## ClassicG&T (23 November 2011)

i hope i havent hurt your feelings in my earlier post, i thought i was quite reasonable. there are some harsh comments which are uncalled for but i think we are all just thinking of your safety and your horse. have looked at your videos and he seems a cracking little chap, would hate to see him with a bad habbit!


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## Jesstickle (23 November 2011)

JustFindingTheDecorations said:



			Jess, if you want I will show you Fergs "buttons" when you come done?  If you want to ride him after seeing what he does?

I often get asked how I differentiate it from rein back.  The aids for rein back are completely different - legs back behind the girth, weight slightly forward.  Walk on is a normal leg position / seat.  Go up is a forward leg position with seat back / weight central.  I can differentiate between those 3 without any problems.  I can't, for some reason, reliably differentiate between rein back and turn on the forehand at the moment though 

Click to expand...

BH can't do turn on the forehand either. But he can rein back  I'm a bit worried now that if I rode him I'd spend the whole time going up and down and confusing the heck out of the poor lad!


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## Trot_On_Dressage (23 November 2011)

How was that mean Rockymum, it is the truth. Are we not allowed to say the truth anymore. The OP uploaded this video to an open forum.

I was trying to point out to this girl how dangerous her "trick is"

When i was a teenager if i taught any of my ponies to do this i would have been crucified by my mum and my instructor!


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## stencilface (23 November 2011)

Oh I think he's a great pony, I too hope I wasn't too harsh in my earlier posts (don't think I was - just not keen on training that way for tricks  ). Stick him in the post to me if you want, great pop in him


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## rockysmum (23 November 2011)

Trot_On_Dressage said:



			How was that mean Rockymum, it is the truth. Are we not allowed to say the truth anymore. The OP uploaded this video to an open forum.

I was trying to point out to this girl how dangerous her "trick is"

When i was a teenager if i taught any of my ponies to do this i would have been crucified by my mum and my instructor!
		
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I agree about the rearing, and have posted my feelings earlier.

However calling her an "average low level young girl" is hardly appropriate.  Looking at her other videos she is hardly novice and that is a cracking pony which I would be happy to own.  Thats why I thought it was a shame to teach him bad habits.


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## rhino (23 November 2011)

Trot_On_Dressage said:



			When i was a teenager if i taught any of my ponies to do this i would have been crucified by my mum and my instructor!
		
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Shame they didn't teach you basic manners at the same time 

TOD; you have a very abrasive manner on this board, it's not the first time you have upset or alienated people. Perhaps you could read over what you write before you hit the 'submit reply' button occasionally?


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## debsg (23 November 2011)

I wasn't in time to see the video, but I have read the responses and I have to say I agree with the majority. I think it is a pointless and dangerous thing to teach a horse. Bearing in mind that the OP is not a new poster on this forum, and must be aware of the general lack of 'I taught my horse to rear for a bit of fun' type posts, I think she has a bit of a cheek, getting on her high horse (no pun intended  her VERY high horse) and removing the video, because she didn't get the reaction that she expected. What did she want? Applause? She did nearly get what she deserved, ie the kick!
 All I can ask is, even if you are an expect, why does anyone want a horse to rear? What purpose does it serve? Why teach something that could be used as an evasion?


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## JFTDWS (23 November 2011)

jesstinsel said:



			BH can't do turn on the forehand either. But he can rein back  I'm a bit worried now that if I rode him I'd spend the whole time going up and down and confusing the heck out of the poor lad! 

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You have to be quite precise to get him to rear.  A number of other people have ridden him and he's never even offered a rear to him   You don't have to ride him, of course.  I don't know what the plan is, but if we want to go out, someone will have to ride one of mine unless dafthoss has access to another


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## Jesstickle (23 November 2011)

debsg- because it is part of a classic high school movement for a start I expect. Hence the Spanish Riding School teaching it to this day!


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## Trot_On_Dressage (23 November 2011)

jesstinsel said:



			debsg- because it is part of a classic high school movement for a start I expect. Hence the Spanish Riding School teaching it to this day!
		
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Yes but i dont think anyone on here has the knowledge and the experience that the Spanish riding School has!


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## stencilface (23 November 2011)

Trot_On_Dressage said:



			Yes but i dont think anyone on here has the knowledge and the experience that the Spanish riding School has!
		
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How do you know I haven't?!  Thats the beauty of the internet, you never know who anyone is, or who they're connected with


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## Jesstickle (23 November 2011)

Trot_On_Dressage said:



			Yes but i dont think anyone on here has the knowledge and the experience that the Spanish riding School has!
		
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I'm sure there are some people on here somewhere that probably do. You'd be surprised at who reads some of these boards I think.

And debsg did say ANYONE. So I thought of someone


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## Trot_On_Dressage (23 November 2011)

jesstinsel said:



			I'm sure there are some people on here somewhere that probably do. You'd be surprised at who reads some of these boards I think.

And debsg did say ANYONE. So I thought of someone 

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Maybe but i think these things are best left to the professionals!


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## Jesstickle (23 November 2011)

Trot_On_Dressage said:



			Maybe but i think these things are best left to the professionals!
		
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So is riding in general probably given that it is inherently dangerous and easy to eff up. But then what would we all do with ourselves?


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## debsg (23 November 2011)

The Spanish Riding School teach capriole too, not sure I'd want one of mine to do it!! 
OK, I will concede the point that those involved in higher end CD might teach Haute Ecole movements.


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## Trot_On_Dressage (23 November 2011)

Yes excatly and we should respect that. Horses are big, dangerous creatures so why put yourself in a dangerous position when you dont need to. I felt like the OP didnt respect the danger in her video which is what made me mad.

I do apologise if i do come across as rude but when something winds me up i just see red.


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## JFTDWS (23 November 2011)

debsg said:



			The Spanish Riding School teach capriole too, not sure I'd want one of mine to do it!! 

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I would   One day I probably will 

I'm very much the lowest of the low end of CD though


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## dafthoss (23 November 2011)

JustFindingTheDecorations said:



			Jess, if you want I will show you Fergs "buttons" when you come done?  If you want to ride him after seeing what he does?

I often get asked how I differentiate it from rein back.  The aids for rein back are completely different - legs back behind the girth, weight slightly forward.  Walk on is a normal leg position / seat.  Go up is a forward leg position with seat back / weight central.  I can differentiate between those 3 without any problems.  I can't, for some reason, reliably differentiate between rein back and turn on the forehand at the moment though 

Click to expand...

I want to see him do it!  and watch JT try it


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## JFTDWS (23 November 2011)

dafthoss, you can try to if you like 

I will bring my video cam if you like...


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## debsg (23 November 2011)

Each to their own, eh JFTD? 
At my age I'd rather keep all four feet on the ground  except when jumping, of course!


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## dafthoss (23 November 2011)

I'll see how JT gets on first


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## Cinnamontoast (23 November 2011)

I think those of little knowledge should not be teaching a horse to rear.

I don't see the point in teaching a horse to rear, full stop. Bit childish, isn't it? It's like, ha ha, look what my pony can do, he's so cute, oops, didn't mean to squish you, he's just being friendly. Duh. 

The OP comes across as very young. It's quite clear that this is not a forum where this toe of behaviour will be applauded. Wise up. Maybe find a forum where people think that's a cute thing.


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## SophieLouBee (23 November 2011)

Late to this! Didn't see the vid but wanted to comment none the less.

I have had experience of a trained rearer over from Spain, and if anything, he was worse than a rearer that hadn't been. His owner spent years and years 'un-training' him. He reared whenever he was put under *any* amount of pressure/stress, because this is what he knew. Obviously his training had involved putting him under pressure, therefore stressing him out, to get him to go up. He just couldn't cope with it.

He went up infront of cars, at random points schooling if any pressure was put on him to perform a certain movement, in the stable if he got left alone etc etc. The owner managed to get him to an ok point, in which he could accept daily pressures without going up, but he would still do it if he got overly-stressed.

What I'm saying is, it seems to me that it isn't the rearing that's the problem, it's the method in which it is taught, and the temperament/attitude of the horse towards it.

Now, onto spanish/french high schools. Both use specific breeds of horse, which makes me think again that the breed type is used partly because of it's attitude/disposition, obviously there are other factors there to consider, but that isn't the point. Also, of course not every horse that is bred to perform these high school movements, will, the horses must be carefully selected for the job right? The horses that are trained are also, not a general riding horse, they aren't going to be going out eventing or to TREC. They are schooled, they do their performances, and possibly hack out for fitness, but probably not.

All the above is based on my limited knowledge/common sense, so please correct me if I am wrong about any of that.

MY PERSONAL OPINION is that rearing, unless taught to counteract itself, is a pretty pointless thing to teach a bog standard riding horse. If a horse can learn that then why not teach it some decent dressage movements? That's just my opinion though. I, myself, would never do it because I don't see what it's achieving.

OP is there any particular reason why you wanted to teach it to your horse, BTW that isn't a pop, genuinely intrigued by it?


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## JFTDWS (23 November 2011)

SnowfieLouBee said:



			What I'm saying is, it seems to me that it isn't the rearing that's the problem, it's the method in which it is taught, and the temperament/attitude of the horse towards it.

Can't dispute that - teach a horse anything badly and you have to face the repercussions

The horses that are trained are also, not a general riding horse, they aren't going to be going out eventing or to TREC. 

disagree with this though - why can a specially trained horse not do TREC?  Mine both do...  Both have ended in top 20 in the national leagues for the winter series (at open and novice respectively).  the reason we've had no success at full trecs is 'cos I'm rubbish at map reading   Pretty unrelated to their tricks!  Maybe one day I will take the highland eventing too 

OP is there any particular reason why you wanted to teach it to your horse, BTW that isn't a pop, genuinely intrigued by it? 

Click to expand...

I'm not the OP, but since I taught mine o do the same things, I will answer - for me, because it's something different to do, I do a lot of groundwork of all forms, so rearing is a reasonably natural progression.  I am not concerned I'm teaching him to rear since he had already shown it was his natural avoidance tactic before I started teaching - and I can use the teaching to hijack his natural instincts and stop him doing it.  I also use it to encourage him to shift back onto his hind quarters - not probably the usual way of acheiving this, but it works with my boy


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## tazzle (23 November 2011)

as to whether it is suitable /desirable etc to teach a horse to rear is a personal decision and I am not going to say that is is in all cases wrong....


however what I think is crucial is that if one is going to do it then there are certain points that should be considered before you do it OP.

 * The need for a good knowledge and skill in the timing of rewarding a behaviour so that you get what you intend not what you reward in error (like I understand from the comments made about the video that has happened  here). If you are new to teaching  using positive reinforecement then please  may I suggest you hone your skills on behaviours or tricks where the action is less risky.

* Have you used treats as your positive reinforecement before because it may be that if you have either not charged the "click", or not used one at all , then your horse might be expressing frustration becuse he did as you asked and you were slow to live up to your end of the "bargain".

* Are you aware of  the progression of behaviours taught by pos reinforcement  ..... that once you move on to intermittant rewards the horse will try harder with the action to get a treat because he had been given one previously every time he presented the behaviour..... he may go higher or use his legs more in order to get what he thinks he deserves.


* Are you aware that often before the action is on cue horses will offer the behaviour more and more and sometimes at times when you think you are not working / training him. The heav enot yt learned that it is only rewarded at certain times . This is the time that* is * dangerous for these type of actions.  So unless your horse is used to the principle of not doing an action unless cued ..... again I would be wary of doing this as a first foray into "tricks" and positive reinfocement.





Please get you and your horse used to the principle of this type of training with other things first. I must admit that I am making presumptions here .... from other peoples description as well as what you _dont_ say in your replies ..... that you are not experienced in  CT style training.





and perhaps a little illustration of how long their memories are for this....... my daughter unbeknown to me taught B to "give a hoof" when she pointed at  her leg.  At that point we always wore bum bags with our treats in so they knew when they  were on offer. Soon though I moved on to not having a bum bag. 

Daughter grew up and out of horses but B stayed with me and for two years all was fine...... till one day for some rare reason I put a bum bag on when I was on the yard and as I went towards B to ask her to lift a leg for me to clean her hoof out.......... I was nearly smacked in the face by her "giving a hoof".  She remembered the cue I had inadvertantly and in ignorance given (confirmed by daughter later when I told her about the incident !!!!)  


I think the majority of the posters on here , whilst some my be a little more vociferous than others , have your safety at heart so please do not throw the baby out with the bathwater and please  look at what is being said .


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## SophieLouBee (23 November 2011)

JustFindingTheDecorations said:



			I'm not the OP, but since I taught mine o do the same things, I will answer - for me, because it's something different to do, I do a lot of groundwork of all forms, so rearing is a reasonably natural progression.  I am not concerned I'm teaching him to rear since he had already shown it was his natural avoidance tactic before I started teaching - and I can use the teaching to hijack his natural instincts and stop him doing it.  I also use it to encourage him to shift back onto his hind quarters - not probably the usual way of acheiving this, but it works with my boy 

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Thanks JFTD, I get why you have chosen to do this, seems a reasonable option for a horse displaying the behaviour already, infact I'd probably even go as far as saying it might be a good idea in this scenario! I'd certainly give it a thought it if I had explored other routes and failed with an established rearer.

I agree about horses that have been trained to do it, going out and doing every-day stuff, but I was talking specifically about High School horses. It's not even the fact they can't, it's that they wouldn't be expected to? I think that's what I'm getting at anyway lol.... I've never seen any ex-high school horses doing anything normal either. I know of one, that isn't really an 'ex', just useless at it, he's driven I think. Totally unrelated, but very uncomfortable to rear in a cart!


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## Potato! (23 November 2011)

I was not going to comment on this thread but as i know the OP and have ridden that horse, he is fab by the way. 

This horse and rider has represented GB in the Trec champs. She is very talented young rider. However i do think it was silly but knowing G like i know him its something that will become very boring after a while.


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## JFTDWS (23 November 2011)

SnowfieLouBee said:



			I agree about horses that have been trained to do it, going out and doing every-day stuff, but I was talking specifically about High School horses. It's not even the fact they can't, it's that they wouldn't be expected to? I think that's what I'm getting at anyway lol.... I've never seen any ex-high school horses doing anything normal either. I know of one, that isn't really an 'ex', just useless at it, he's driven I think. Totally unrelated, but very uncomfortable to rear in a cart!
		
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Hmm, I'm not sure that's a particularly valid analogy though (sorry!) simply because more high level horses in any discipline aren't expected to go out and venture into completely different disciplines - high level "normal" dr horses rarely compete at trec either.  It's true, probably, but not especially relevant to why not to teach a horse to rear - I bet if the SRS wanted to compete at trec they'd be pretty good at it   Normal horses are often expected to perform in all different disciplines - mine included - and can be taught to show different behaviours in different environments 

video of my boy if you want to tear it apart   Both old clips - can't find an new ones 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAnNhVWMqYs


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## Spring Feather (23 November 2011)

Trot_On_Dressage said:



			Yes but i dont think anyone on here has the knowledge and the experience that the Spanish riding School has!
		
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A useful tip is to be careful not to judge others on this forum by using one's own limit of knowledge and experience as a comparison


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## SophieLouBee (23 November 2011)

JustFindingTheDecorations said:



			Hmm, I'm not sure that's a particularly valid analogy though (sorry!) simply because more high level horses in any discipline aren't expected to go out and venture into completely different disciplines - high level "normal" dr horses rarely compete at trec either.  It's true, probably, but not especially relevant to why not to teach a horse to rear - I bet if the SRS wanted to compete at trec they'd be pretty good at it   Normal horses are often expected to perform in all different disciplines - mine included - and can be taught to show different behaviours in different environments 

video of my boy if you want to tear it apart   Both old clips - can't find an new ones 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAnNhVWMqYs

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I think, I'm finding it hard to say what I mean, with, as I said before, limited knowledge! (I have a funny image of SRS doing airs above the ground at random whilst partaking in TREC, thanks for that )

That being, said, why should 'normal horses' be expected to perform a rear, if say high school horses aren't expected to do a round of SJ? Works both ways I guess, well in my mind. I don't think I'm even saying they shouldn't, it's just they don't!

Agree with be expected to show different behaviours in different environments, that can definitely/obviously be taught. For example, rein back, I use in the school, and for opening gates. However, I will say my horses that know rein back, can & do shoot/go backwards more often than the ones that I haven't taught...Coincidence perhaps, or maybe not. Also, you have to throw in the mix the unpredictability of the horse, now it knows a new thing, is it more likely to display it at random undesired points in time? Who knows! Again, perhaps that is related to the temperament of the horse?

Why would I tear those videos apart?! They are both controlled and carried out in a safe and positive way, with the horse obviously listening to you, the handler. I don't have any problem with that fact 

Another question for you, does your horse do full scale rears, or just lifts like those in the vid?

Sorry if I am rambling on a bit! You are a lovely person to have a discussion with, makes a change from the ranting that can/does happen on here


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## tazzle (24 November 2011)

now it knows a new thing, is it more likely to display it at random undesired points in time?
		
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if he has been positively rewarded for it and its not yet learned to only do it on cue ..... highly likely  ... or if  a similar cue is accidentally given 

these "tricks" have got to be trained well especially with horses that learn fast and / or get frustrated.


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## JFTDWS (24 November 2011)

I see what you're getting at.  Yes, that's certainly one way of looking at it.  I would agree I think, if I didn't think my horses enjoy doing it - if I felt I was expecting more from them than they wanted to give (in terms of doing specific things and in terms of versatility) then I wouldn't ask them to - if you know what I mean?  But yes, that's certainly a valid view point (though who am I to judge validity of opinions - I mean, I understand!)

When ridden I don't encourage him to go any higher than this -







Because I don't want to risk him over balancing and going back on himself (or me).  Fortunately, he's a very sane sort of horse (nonsense, don't mean that at all, I mean, he has a good self preservation instinct!) so he doesn't get silly and do it stupidly.  I would be less inclined to train a horse who I didn't feel was so careful with his own life 

He does go up pretty high when I ask him from the ground.  I can't find a photo right now on my pb account.  But even at that, he rarely goes to the full vertical, and you really have to ask for that - if he's in any way uncertain that you want a rear, he will bunny hop the way he does in that video.  Because he always starts with those sorts of heights, I am fairly confident he is unlikely to go bolt upright unprovoked!

My cob really only bunny hops.  If I really psych him up I can get a 45 degree angle type rear (and he loves being allowed to do it as he really does know it's "misbehaving").  Nobody else who has ridden him has ever managed to get him to do it   He's very laid back, he's not going to expend energy doing silly things for no reason.

Thanks.  I try not to rant blindly, but sometimes we all get a bit wound up and blinkered   It's aways nice to be able to exchange ideas with someone who is willing to see it from different view points and respond coherently to things like this.  I think this is the point of forums - not for lynching and ganging up on people.

eta- sorry that photo is seriously rubbish quality, sorry :/


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## SophieLouBee (24 November 2011)

Yes, I get what you mean, I can see it's done in a controlled manner, and that you don't push it too far, which is perfectly acceptable.

That's really interesting, so you are able to control the height that he goes, by using _your_ excitement. So it's all done with positive reinforcement, interesting. Obviously your methods are very different to that of the people that taught the horse I was talking about earlier.

What's also interesting is how you've mentioned the temperament of the horses, self-preserving & laid back, and how you'd not encourage it with horses not of that disposition. (Can you tell I like psychology, what a geek)

I think, what probably gets most people, is the fact that although you have taught the rearing in (what I think) is the correct manner to do so, that the horse has still be taught to do it, and perhaps this makes it more likely for a horse to do it unprovoked, than if it hasn't been taught? Coupling that with the fact that most people who have rearers, do not desire this fact, thus go about solving it by negative association. They see, you, as an example, as someone who is positively reinforcing what they view to be negative behaviour.

I, un-intentionally, probably somewhat encourage undesirable behaviour. When I see my horses getting a bit fruity in the field, as in playful, I will clap my hands and make a squealing noise, which they have now associated with play, and they go cantering off with their tails in the air. Now does that mean that I am associated with cantering off? I don't think so, the noises are. However, if I were to make that noise whilst mounted, I highly doubt my horses would tank off, infact I'd bet you they wouldn't. As you said before, different environments have been distinguished, my horses know when it's field/play time, and hen it's work time. The problem would arise if you failed to separate between the two.

I must go to bed now! I'm hoping to study equine behaviour one day (when I have time and/or funds lol), and this would be a really interesting topic for a paper!


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## Box_Of_Frogs (24 November 2011)

OP, why have you removed the you-tube video?


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## Shooting Star (24 November 2011)

burness_21 said:



			I was not going to comment on this thread but as i know the OP and have ridden that horse, he is fab by the way. 

This horse and rider has represented GB in the Trec champs. She is very talented young rider. However i do think it was silly but knowing G like i know him its something that will become very boring after a while.
		
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Appreciating that she may have competed for GB but having competed at that level for many years also in a non-professional (& not equestrian) sport i would be the first to admit that you cannot ever call yourself an expert, you still frequenty make errors in judgement and there is always room to learn  - if you can't accept this you have to ask yourself whether you really are a sports person.

But as they say you learn from your experiences so once the OP has considered both the positives and negatives of teaching him this hopefully she will recognise her strengths in being able to infulencing her horse and turn it into a real positive in his training for the future to go out and do GB proud!


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## hackneylass2 (24 November 2011)

'I agree, its your horse, do what you like.

BUT if you ever get fed up of him, or cant afford him, or any other reason why you need to move him on. Please dont.

Apart from a very limited market of people who think this is clever, your horse will be unsaleable.

Be prepared to have him PTS if no-one with similar ideas to yourself wants him.

I hope for his sake you can give him a home for life because no-one else will want to.'


Exactly...and also remember that Life being what it is, wanting to keep a horse for its lifetime is one thing, being able to is another. Horses live a long time and in this present climate, fiscal security is at best unsure.


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## traceyann (24 November 2011)

Can you teach my horse not to rear and box at me on a daily basis. What id give for my horse not to rear. I dont agree with teaching an allrounder tricks. Like others have said one day you may have to sell him/her.


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## tallyho! (24 November 2011)

Morning!!!

Still going I see... I think she gets the message people.


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## maggiehorse (24 November 2011)

wow i havent been on the forum for 24 hours and theres 13 pages to read  ...ta muchly very interesting!!


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## Amymay (24 November 2011)

Goodness.  What a fuss.

Nice horse OP.


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## JFTDWS (24 November 2011)

SnowfieLouBee said:



			I think, what probably gets most people, is the fact that although you have taught the rearing in (what I think) is the correct manner to do so, that the horse has still be taught to do it,* and perhaps this makes it more likely for a horse to do it unprovoked, than if it hasn't been taught*? 

Complicated.  I think it's highly relevant that rearing is not really something we teach horses - it's a natural behaviour that we hijack.  Same as teaching a horse to canter under saddle.  Does training and encouraging a horse to canter increase the risk of it bombing off?  Possibly, but only in a minority of cases, usually where some other part of training is done incorrectly.

My highland wouldn't do it "unprovoked", but may rear during a groundwork session if he doesn't understand a command and thinks I may want him to go up.  He does small mini-rears and if I encourage him, will increase the size using whatever cue I've encouraged.  If I ignore him, he stops doing it and offers something else until he gets it right.  If I'm doing something "different", e.g. trotting up for the vet, mving him around for x-rays, he doesn't react the same way because he's learnt to do it in situ off cue.  

I also think that if a horse has been encouraged to rear without a rider in a school with a soft surface to the point where it falls over backwards, it is highly plausible that the shock will actually discourage that horse from rearing violently in other situations - e.g. on concrete or with a rider, where there is greater risk of injury.  I've never put that to the test, but I can see a potential use in pathological rearers.

Coupling that with the fact that most people who have rearers, do not desire this fact, thus go about solving it by negative association. They see, you, as an example, as someone who is positively reinforcing what they view to be negative behaviour.

Ahh, but if my horses did it as an evasion tactic or against my commands, I would respond with negative reinforcement (or neutral) too.  

As you said before, different environments have been distinguished, my horses know when it's field/play time, and hen it's work time. The problem would arise if you failed to separate between the two.

Exactly.  Mine are very capable of differentiating which behaviours are appropriate at different times.  I could also show you a clip from the first film on that video where I am giving the pony the same outward signals (saying "up", with my hands raised, in the same field, same session, but because he can see from my whole body language (which is more relaxed, though you can't see that on camera) that I'm not really asking him, he stands there looking at me.  I believe I filmed it to make a similar point.

I must go to bed now! I'm hoping to study equine behaviour one day (when I have time and/or funds lol), and this would be a really interesting topic for a paper!
		
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Now that is a bad learn behaviour that neither of us should have taught ourselves - late night foruming doesn't do anyone any good


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## BigRed (24 November 2011)

You are teaching your horse a trick that you think is fun - that's your business.  The problem is, one day you may have to sell this horse and his new owners may not think it is fun, in fact they may mistake it as bad behaviour and that could cause your horse a lot of problems, so all in all, I think it's a foolish thing to teach your horse.


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## Twinkle Twinkle (24 November 2011)

BigRed said:



			You are teaching your horse a trick that you think is fun - that's your business.  The problem is, one day you may have to sell this horse and his new owners may not think it is fun, in fact they may mistake it as bad behaviour and that could cause your horse a lot of problems, so all in all, I think it's a foolish thing to teach your horse.
		
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/\/\/\/\
THIS


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## Devonshire dumpling (24 November 2011)

Right children, I think its enough now, I have just caught up on 4 pages from last night, and my how repetitive!!!!!

Boring!!


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## Puppy (24 November 2011)

I don't think it's just if you sell a horse. As an owner you have a responsibility to try and make your horse as safe to handle as possible for other people. 

I see to my horses myself (well along with my mother) and wouldn't ever sell them, but stuff happens. For example, my dear mare has had to be handled by vet staff A LOT! Also, by friends in an emergency when I was injured an in fact she then had to go off on full livery when I was hospitalised/bed bound for months. Why? Well because of a freak accident where I was double barreled in the face. I still live in constant pain and have a string of health problems - my life will never be the same - so to watch that video where the horse is essentially being trained to kick out at people is very painful viewing


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## Hovis_and_SidsMum (24 November 2011)

the thing is with teaching tricks you never know what it will lead too: I taught Hovis to use a laptop and next thing you know hes addicted to internet shopping.......... 

Personally I'd rather teach something other than rearing for all the reasons already mentioned but what you chose to do with your horse is your business.  
However I would have thought having not been a newcomer to this forum you'd have known what the reaction would be and so then to get huffy about it is rather daft.


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## SusannaF (24 November 2011)

Folks, a levade is NOT a rear. It's a highly controlled, balanced movement. No comparison.


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## misterjinglejay (24 November 2011)

I taught Mister Jay to fetch, and that's much more useful - fetch the paper, Mister Jay; fetch the feed bucket, Mister Jay; fetch me a sandwich, Mister Jay.


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## Jesstickle (24 November 2011)

SusannaF said:



			Folks, a levade is NOT a rear. It's a highly controlled, balanced movement. No comparison.
		
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I was actually picturing a courbette more than a levade. Hence me saying the rear is only part of the movement. 

And of course it is highly controlled but I bet the first time it's taught it isn't


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## Ladyinred (24 November 2011)

misterJinglejay said:



			I taught Mister Jay to fetch, and that's much more useful - fetch the paper, Mister Jay; fetch the feed bucket, Mister Jay; fetch me a sandwich, Mister Jay.
		
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Could you come and teach my OH? Please


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## noodle_ (24 November 2011)

awwww cant see the video!!!

im always to late to join in with the fun  


from what i gather...your teaching your horse to rear but praising it for almost kicking your head in?? genius! well done....





bad idea....very bad idea.  one trick id never teach my horse is to rear....


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## fatpiggy (24 November 2011)

I think the OP is now in a hole and needs to stop digging.  Puts a controversial post up for public discussion then berates anyone who doesn't share her opinion.  I've had plenty of experience of horses that were taught "tricks" (usually by teenagers) and they were a right nuisance as they tended to pop up when it was least convenient.  Stick to teaching horses useful things like backing up on command, moving across when asked to and generally being polite, and leave anything else to the circus brigade.


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## LaurenBay (24 November 2011)

Please don't teach your Horse that, you/other handlers could get hurt!

My YO is a very close friend of mine. She almost died after being kicked in the face by one of her Horses. She got away with a broken jaw, broken teeth, teeth gone through lip so stichtes needed, broken cheeckbone, nerve damadge, broken nose. 

I would not want to see anyone go through that again!


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## little_critter (24 November 2011)

Festive Frilly Stockings said:



			Just a word of warning about teaching them kissing too, I nearly lost my top lip and cheek with this one, something I had done a million times before and thought nothing of.  Trust me, when a horse bites and means it then it REALLY hurts and is incredibly powerful, can do a lot of damage!  I will never put my face near a horse's mouth again and constantly watch the children when around them.
		
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Too right - just put a whole swede infront of S to get a demo of how powerful her jaws are.
No edges or angles to get a hold on but she will demolish it in minutes. The first bit is the scariest - like crushing a childs skull!


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## noodle_ (24 November 2011)

lauren- i agree there!

my horse has bitten me twice now (full on grab and chomp...) only because i screamed she let go, but my god it hurts.

i dont do kisses etc , did try but my horse luckily ! hates it probably as well!>...


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## Devonshire dumpling (24 November 2011)

noodle_ said:



			awwww cant see the video!!!

im always to late to join in with the fun  


from what i gather...your teaching your horse to rear but praising it for almost kicking your head in?? genius! well done....





bad idea....very bad idea.  one trick id never teach my horse is to rear....
		
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Someone should teach you to not comment when you haven't seen what you are commenting on?????????????????????  very bad idea, very bad idea.....  the horse reared without being scared but by a prompt, she bent down ( a long way from the horse to pick up treat) and horse lifted its bum and half heartedly lifted a hoof..... op knows it was wrong to treat at that point........  I think everyone should stop bullying her now, from what I gather she isn't very old!!


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## Tinker_Belle (24 November 2011)

I tried to resist commenting on this but couldn't....

I personally do not think it a good idea to teach a horse to rear in the same way I don't think it wise when people teach little foals to place their hooves on the owners shoulders. The owners seem to forget that the cute little foal will one day be a strapping 14hh plus of muscle and power. 

I had a Mini Shetland that reared out of sheer bad temper and because he'd been spoiled as a colt. He hadn't been treated firmly and hadn't been taught manners, he was a little sod for the first six months I had him. He'd rear as an evasion tactic when he didn't want to come in from the field and would box and 'dance' when I was trying to bring him in. Even though he was only 9hh I did not think this funny and certainly never encouraged it. I did break him of the habit by carrying a schooling whip with me when I led him as each time he went up, he'd get a tickle/sting on the tummy from the schooling whip. He was strong and used to throw temper tantrums because he didn't want to do as he was told, he wanted to be the boss and this included nipping/biting and generally being a brat. It did worry me once or twice when he did it as he was so determined and to be honest, having sat to a rear on a spooked horse I would never buy a horse that was known to rear because even from the ground, hooves flying around your head aren't funny.

If you teach it in a controlled way as one other poster has done then that is different but from what has been said about yours kicking out at you, I would personally take a step back and re-evaluate what you're trying to achieve here .

I have taught my mare to 'kiss' on command but she only does it with her muzzle touching my nose and only does it when she is asked. She's also very gentle when she does it so maybe that's a better trick to teach?! .


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## fburton (24 November 2011)

jesstinsel said:



			These guys must be retarded too then  Look, they don't even wear hats

http://rochousenyc.com/blog/?tag=the-spanish-riding-school-in-vienna

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OMG no hat... that's disgusting! I am amazed by how stupid that is! Why, why, why????  They also get horses to rear up and to kick out. What the hell are they playing at?


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## ILuvCowparsely (24 November 2011)

As you say its your horse , some will be shocked . Just be careful it doesn't get out of hand .

 He is a big horse  if he  did come down wrong . Still its a nice still  frame photo.

 Why don't you try  get him to lie down   on command its a bit safer


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## ILuvCowparsely (24 November 2011)

Devonshire dumpling said:



			Some of the comments were just plain bitchy and nasty, with the view to hurt her feelings !
		
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^5 to this .


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## SaharaS (24 November 2011)

I had an accident with a rearer..it came from nowhere & was always vertical. I ended up her leaping up a 6 ft grass verge bank,rearing & falling over backwards on me on concrete on the other side of the lane.I was paralysed for 5 or so hours and broke every single vertebra in my spine AND my sternum. This was in feb 2004. I had such bad spinal chord damage that I am still in pain and have since been diagnosed with Fibromyalgia & ME /CFS.Some days I can ride other days I can't even lift my arms to straighten my legs, let alone lift a tiny phone to my ear or a kettle.Please don't do this, I beg you. Spanish riding school/levade fine..but unless you are there with a horse that has had at LEAST 12 years of intense training & under strict controlled circumstances, please please don't risk your life/future -fun is doing things whenever you want to because you CAN...but it not fun when you can't because simply can't, no matter how desperately you wish you could


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## Serenity087 (24 November 2011)

I'm in two minds about this thread.

Children teaching ponies to rear? Massive no no.  And I've stopped several children from doing just that myself.

However, I had intended to re-enact with Dorey with involved putting on a show, so I was starting to teach her what I consider to be "fancy footwork".  I know from experience that even horsey people consider her a rearer just for leaning back, sticking her head up and rocking back.  It's safe for us both and with my fellow reenactors would make a good show.

I'd never intentionally teach rear though.  I've taught Dorey how to shake hands and when she's feeling enthusiastic I rather get a hoof thrust in my direction... and thats just one foot!!!


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