# Putting a rug on a mare with foal at foot..



## ladybones (5 June 2009)

How soon would you put a rug on a mare with a foal at foot? My mare is suffering terribly with the flys even with loads of fly spray so i want to put her fly rug on. she has a 2 week old filly at foot, im just worried that it might scare the foal away! or the foal might get caught in the straps.

Thanks in advance


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## debbiejowett (5 June 2009)

My vet has told me to keep all rugs off not because of getting heads caught or anything like that but because the foal can't negotiate its way around the rug very well when looking for the udder to feed.  ps mine foaled yesterday afternoon at 2.30 and I now have a gorgeous colt and an extremely foal proud mum


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## teb (5 June 2009)

The best thing you can do for your mare and foal is bring them in during the day when the flys are bad. Rugs really have no place on a mare with a foal at foot. 

Terri


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## Rollin (5 June 2009)

Somebody asked about this with regard to winter rugs and a number of people said their foals negotiated the rugs without a problem.  The only thing that they ALL recommended was to remove the leg straps completely.

My foalie was not weaned until 10 months so he had to cope with a rug albeit he was quite a bit older.


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## Kenniford (5 June 2009)

Our mares have when needs must had rugs on ie if its raining and they have to go out for a stretch of legs, we always remove legs straps and do not use a fillet string.  They are always supervised to make sure they are safe. Foals have rugs on also, obviously no leg straps.


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## Enfys (5 June 2009)

I bring my mare and foal in, purely because it suits me to and is convenient. If I chose to leave them out I wouldn't hesitate to use a rug if needs be, do away with the leg straps as everyone says.

Foals are not stupid, they figure out very quickly how to get to milk. My mares are rugged in winter and the foals don't have a problem feeding then.

Just keep an eye on them for a bit and get the foal used to it in an enclosed space first where you can sort out any problems quickly.


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## PapaFrita (5 June 2009)

I put a rung on PF when the weather started getting chilly (what with her being a bit lean) Foal had no problems at all. It doesn't have leg straps and I used some frayed baler twine as a fillet string.


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## YOUANDYOURS (6 June 2009)

Fully agree with Terrib - bring them in out of the flies.

Anyone who puts rugs on their mares with foals at foot must be totally mad.  Ok many of you do and get away with it but the day you go out in the field and find your little one strangled in the fillit string or with a broken leg in the sursingles - you will never be able to forgive yourselves.  

Whether it be to keep flies off or to "keep" the coats nice for the show ring or in the winter, just dont do it.


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## KarynK (6 June 2009)

Well if I am mad I obviously don't know it.

I have been around mares wearing rugs with foals at foot for some 15 years and have never experiencd a problem, or are there loads of dead foals that have not been splashed all over the equestrian news???

If  you are sensible with the type and quality of the rug there is not a problem.  I would never confine a young foal to a stable for the sake of a rug, they (providing there are no problems) need to be out exercising in order to build bone and grow steadily and the mare needs grass with young foals at foot for top quality milk.

As above none of my rugs have legstraps, I ensure that the belly straps are very snug and the fillet string is weak enough to break very easily.  All mine have been out this winter with their foals who were weaned at around a year old.  I make that around 500 odd days with no problems?

It's a personal decision but I would not judge anyone for making it or not making it you need to weigh up the potential risks (which I think are minimal) against the welfare of both mare and foal.


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## magic104 (6 June 2009)

Interesting debate, I have to agree with Karynk, I have never heard of a foal injuring itself on it's dam's rug.  When one livery was surprised to find her mare in-foal, there was little she could do, the mare was clipped out &amp; it was December.  Both she &amp; her filly coped well with their rugs.  You can find a risk in anything, if you care to.


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## teb (6 June 2009)

My mares and foals aren't standing in stables day after day cruelly! Oh and when they do come in to a bed filled with straw up to their knees, I've never seen them complain! Like on a day like today when it's tanking down rain and windy. Yeah a blanket makes them feel great out there. The ones that were blanketed wished they were in too. Mine stay out in most everything unless we have a day like today.

All those touting, let them be horses and keep them out - doesn't seem like they can handle much if they have to have a rug on all times of the year! Any rain, cold, or flies rules most but a handful of days during the year.

I don't keep headcollars on my horses either, including foals. Same reasoning really. And mostly because I'm not teaching them to wear a headcollar - more how to have it on and off. 

Terri


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## KarynK (6 June 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
My mares and foals aren't standing in stables day after day cruelly! 

[/ QUOTE ]

I said it was it was cruel? must be going mad then!  

Like I always say each to their own, but horses at least descend from a wild animal and much as it makes us feel better that they are in a huge bed in a lovely stable that is not necessarily what is best for them.

For many years I slept well knowing my horses were confined in their stables wearing a better tog than my quilt, but after much research careful thought and a leap of faith I prefer to let my horses live as natural life as is possible, with as low a grain ration as possible.  I have even in the past kept competition horses out with the best possible rugs and experienced huge benefits from it, they lost no weight and were much happier.

A horse is still designed as it was before selective breeding to move a lot in fact their circulation to the extremities relies on movement for venous return, so confinement especially with young healthy foals is probably not the best way to go to build good quality bone and to further inhibit free movement by giving a cosy deep bed (and I was one of the worst offenders years ago) is probably not the best possible course of management for them.

So I would rather use a rug and a field shelter (which they only choose to use in summer) to stop them getting cold and loosing weight and let them experience what they were so well designed to cope with.  They do not constantly wear rugs only in winter and when the bad weather is in a certain direction. Yes flies look distressing but again they are well designed to cope with them.  In fact there is nothing better for keeping weight off a fat horse if you can cope.

(NB Red top fly traps are excellent for keeping the local fly population under control.)

My horses live as a herd and a very happy for it, having said that they are handled from birth and are respectful of humans; they come in when they need to and readily leave the herd to be educated from a very early age.  

My Canadian mare spent her 30 days Quarantine before her flight in Saskatchewan in mid winter, she lived out in a paddock with fence panels for shelter.  During her stay the temperature reached -42!  Yet I have pictures of her happily in her paddock (NO RUG IN SIGHT).  She arrived in the UK after 8 hrs travelling an 8 hr flight 1 nights rest in Luxembourg looking in remarkable condition in the lightest of winter coats!  She wears a rug in our wet winters but would survive very well without one, I just cannot see the point in feeding the weather!!!!!!!


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## Enfys (7 June 2009)

Youandyours, we are going to have to agree to disagree. 
I blanket when necessary and I resent the insinuation that anyone who blankets is a lesser mortal than those who don't. I don't know your circumstances, you don't know mine, I'll take the risk. Each to their own. 

Isn't it a calculated risk putting a blanket on any horse, or tacking it up, riding it, making it leap fences, run faster, putting it in a metal box on wheels? You name it, I think everything we do to, or with, a horse, can be the cause of injury. I would be willing to bet that more foals are injured/killed running into field fences than through suckling a mare wearing a rug. 


Re your Canadian mare, Karen, probably looking much like this? But unrugged, and about 15C colder than I get it. The snow would have been about 18" on the ground at this stage. This is a 5 month Quarab.







Most horses here are naked all year round. Most of my horses would cope, but I blanket them all, as you say, why feed the weather? I may be a soft Brit but there is no way I would winter a foal out (and they live out 24/7) without a blanket.


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## debbiejowett (7 June 2009)

Do you know I knew as soon as I posted that someone would come back and disagree with me  
	
	
		
		
	


	




  I suppose its just down to the individual.  I am not saying foals are stupid either far from it.  I know nothing about foals this is my first my vet has advised me against rugs so I will follow her advice but obviously everyone else is entitled to follow their own instinct.  Someone recommended this breeding forum to pick up some valuable advice but I don't think its going to be too helpful since everyone has such differing opinions I end up more confused.


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## KarynK (7 June 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
Re your Canadian mare, Karen, probably looking much like this? But unrugged, and about 15C colder than I get it.[ QUOTE ]


Well that's how I imagined it would look as a feeble brit but the guy from the Q Farm came over with her, he said that it is so dry there that you can't even make snowballs with it !!  So no pretty bits sticking to the trees and manes,  It looked rather nice and white on the ground in the picture but he then told me that any more than 20 mins outside and any exposed skin starts to get frostbite!

I am lucky in that the land I am on is chalk downland and being in the south it is a mild climate so I can winter out without much damage apart from a few ripped rugs as the youngsters seem to be able to shred them quite well! But I think I'll keep the rain and one or two days of snow and Ice and won't moan about the weather again much!!!


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## charliesarmy (7 June 2009)

This forum is great for advice 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 please don't be too dishearted....I just think with this particular question its a matter of preference and what you feel comfortable with doing....both sides have good for and againsts your preference would have to be the answer...


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## Enfys (7 June 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
 Someone recommended this breeding forum to pick up some valuable advice but I don't think its going to be too helpful since everyone has such differing opinions I end up more confused.  
	
	
		
		
	


	





[/ QUOTE ]

Well, whoever recommended this forum is actually absolutely right.  
	
	
		
		
	


	





We have differences of opinions, but unlike some other forums this is actually very friendly and helpful without being downright poisonous.

There are some majorly experienced people on here who have first hand experience of practically everything normally encountered, and I think experience counts for so much. Sure, everyone has their own opinions and preferences, it is the same anywhere, any subject, but that's what makes it so valuable.

I don't think that there is any one way to do anything. You just have to read experiences, put it all in a big melting pot, pick out what makes sense, toss aside what you don't like, listen to those you trust,  and in the end make up your own mind and do what you feel comfortable with. What suits one horse, may not suit another and the only one that knows your horse best is yourself.

I read more than I post, I occasionally take umbrage at being told "Don't do it" that's all. 

Karen,

You are right, snow in Canada is awful for snowballs. It is very dry and powdery, good for horses, doesn't ball in feet and it generally behaves itself nicely, no mud all winter, it is absolute heaven. It is only during the melt that it gets to that ghastly slushy stage for a couple of weeks.


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## magic104 (7 June 2009)

The problem is that you have to do what is right for your horse.  I have to agree that I have never known a foal suffer because the dam was wearing a rug.  I am not saying rug your mare &amp; go against what your vet has advised, just that it is not cut &amp; dried like that.  Some horses suffer terrible in the summer &amp; it may not always be practicle for the mare &amp; foal to come in.  My sister is lucky enough to have a field shelter which she says gets more use in the summer then the winter.  They may just be coming out of the heat of the sun or find relief from the flies in there, who knows.  Where animals are concerned you have to be open minded, because they are individual &amp; not one cap fits all.


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## debbiejowett (7 June 2009)

+ Enfys

I know, I'm sorry I am being way over sensitive, just feeling a bit down today.  My mare is suffering from foal proudness and is being extremely agressive.  It is quite a strain not to mention extremely scary.  I need to lighten up


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## debbiejowett (7 June 2009)

Sure I agree, but vet knows the pony very well, she has bred foals herself so is very experienced, I trust her opinion and no rugs work for the time being.  I am not opposed to change should I need to in future.  Obviously things would be very different if it was winter.


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## emlybob (7 June 2009)

In view of what everyone has said on here i agree with all sides.  However I know a breeder who has been breeding for many years who always rugs her mares and foals up and has had no problems.  She did once have to sew up the corners of one of the mares rugs so the foal had the confidence to suckle and it worked.

If you are breeding from older competition mares who have been used to being rugged up all their lives then they don't always take well to being roughed off and turned out in bad weather without a rug on.  My mares don't tend to be rugged up when they have foals at foot as they aren't used to it.  But I certainly don't see anything wrong with it as long as sensible precautions are taken


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## Thefuture (8 June 2009)

Interesting and strong views.  I personally never rug mares with foals at foot (only exception if difficult foaling and mare in need of some TLC for a few hours).  Early foals are rugged so they can go out and play for an hour or so whatever the weather and then those born later in the year dont have a rug unless they are not as strong as they should be.  At no point would I ever leave a foal out with a rug day and night whilst turned out.

My vet made a comment a few years ago "there is always one bad accident a year involving a rug" and he personally wouldnt recommend using them but each to their own.

Like all things we cannot watch our little foals 24/7 and now and again they come in a little sore, bit of a lump or whatever - little insignificant injuries which foalie gets over.  But how many then have a training issue later on in life.  

I know you are now all thinking no not possible but I can assure you that a foal can carry a serious injury without you knowing.  

Several years ago a friend had a foal which didnt want to wear a headcollar and luckily he was experienced enough to know the reaction from the foal was not normal.  This foal had some xrays and showed the foal had a clean break through the second vertibrae.  This foal in now in work and showing no ill effects at the present time, but should it become unable to flex properly in the pole as its work gets more advance the breeder will know why.

So IMO rugs are great to get the foals out in bad weather but strong well grown foals from 4 weeks on should be able to cope.  I would rather have to bring mine in and suffer the mucking out than have them out in unsuitable weather with rugs on.


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## laa666 (16 June 2009)

I must be mad as well, have used rugs on foals for years and have never had a problem.


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