# Zangersheide



## ErinDoig (15 July 2007)

Does anyone know much about these zangersheide horses? Ive heard theyre known for their jumping abilty? 
Do u class them as belgium horses because of where zangersheide is located or german?
Any info apprecited

Ta x


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## Governor (15 July 2007)

The stud in in Lanaken (sp) on the Holland/Belgium border.

The majority of the stallions are purely show jumpers however if you take a look on the website (and at some of the videos availible) the general quality of paces would allow for high level dressage in most cases i'd imagine.

My lad carries the Z brand but its disputable as to whether he's 'authentic'. However he is fairly typey from what i've seen from their horses and he can jump!


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## mat (15 July 2007)

The Z stud dont own any dressage stallions yet I dont think... I know that they brand on the opposite side from the majority of other breeds..
We have a few z horses, they are all very modern types with massive scope and great natural technique over fences..


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## anniedoherty (15 July 2007)

I've got a Z horse - see my avatar.  He is a Dutch warmblood.  I do a bit of dressage and he has good paces but he can also jump.  He jumped out of his paddock a few months back from a standstill (don't ask why) and it certainly looked impressive.

He is very nappy and if broncing was an Olympic sport he would be up there on the winners rostrum from time to time.

Governor, your horse looks quite similar to mine.  I didn't realise that you could get "fake" Z horses.  Is that true?  My boy has a really swish passport which shows impressive lines but I never thought it might not be genuine. Should I be worried??


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## ErinDoig (15 July 2007)

Thanks everyone. 

So some horses with the 'z' brand may not be authentic? Thats worrying!

x


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## Governor (15 July 2007)

I bought mine from a certain east anglian dealers and he had import papers only - I didn't spot his brand until a week after i'd bought him and it took me a few days to work out which stud it belonged to. I don't have a passport (apart from the one I got for him myself)  /papers however and I personally think it's unlikely that someone would attempt to fake a brand (which is on the offside) though it has been suggested to me. I don't think its something to be concerned about really, especially if its backed up by breeding papers or a passport.

I'd love to know his breeding and I have been in contact with Zanger with no sucess. He does have a NL microchip number but i'd have no idea where to trace that to.

I believe they stopped branding their horses 3 years ago?


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## ErinDoig (15 July 2007)

Im sure he is 'genuine' ive never heard of people faking brands? or does it happen?
Its always nice to know breeding etc though.

I presume his name doesnt carry the 'Z' afterwards then? Ive noticed the horses are usually called 'joeblogs-z'. 

They all look like lovely types though and a good jump is a bonus too of course!

thanks again


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## StaceyTanglewood (16 July 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
I bought mine from a certain east anglian dealers and he had import papers only - I didn't spot his brand until a week after i'd bought him and it took me a few days to work out which stud it belonged to. I don't have a passport (apart from the one I got for him myself)  /papers however and I personally think it's unlikely that someone would attempt to fake a brand (which is on the offside) though it has been suggested to me. I don't think its something to be concerned about really, especially if its backed up by breeding papers or a passport.

I'd love to know his breeding and I have been in contact with Zanger with no sucess. He does have a NL microchip number but i'd have no idea where to trace that to.

I believe they stopped branding their horses 3 years ago? 

[/ QUOTE ]

Can you not get a DNA Test done ???


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## lucysnapshot (16 July 2007)

someone i know has a warmblood that isnt branded Z but has stuck a Z on the end of the horses name so everyone thinks its Z bred!


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## Governor (16 July 2007)

I looked into it and at first Z were reluctant to offer one.

Last time I spoke to them they did offer one [DNA test] but at a cost of 240 Euros which I couldn't afford at the time - you can't get replacement papers from them either and I don't plan to sell so its a case of is it worth it.


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## mat (16 July 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
I've got a Z horse - see my avatar.  He is a Dutch warmblood.  

[/ QUOTE ]

Surely if he's a Z horse he is from the Zangersheide stud, and is not a Dutch warmblood (KWPN)?


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## Anastasia (16 July 2007)

If a horse is branded with a "Z" then as bbmat says it must have Zangersheide papers and not KWPN.

Zangersheide still do branding, as do the breeds in Germany, its just in Holland they stopped doing it.


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## cosmicblue (18 July 2007)

But just to be annoying you can be overstamp a passport with Z stud so can put a Z after the name but no brand or Z passport


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## ErinDoig (19 July 2007)

So can a horse have a z after its name even if its not a z horse? confusing !


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## anniedoherty (19 July 2007)

Oooh, I don't know the first thing about horse breeding so I thought he was a KWPN because that's what I was told.  What is he then?  I can't believe I don't even know what my own horse is - lol!  His passport is from Zangersheide but they seem a bit scary to approach so I have never tried contacting them.


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## The Voice (20 July 2007)

Why do you need to contact them. If it is just to find out if the passport is ok the only way would be to send it back and all they can do is confirm if the passport is genuine but that dosn't mean to say that the passport is for that horse. The only way would be to DNA test the horse to see if it matches the passport. Unless using it for breeding, what is the point? I would be happy to keep it as a Z horse.
They are really nice people there but are very busy dealing with new registrations of which there are hundreds from across the world.
They used to have one foal inspector in Europe, Hugo Cooreman, who went around taking DNA samples and branding (he held the branding Iron). Our last one was branded about 4 years ago and at the time he said they no longer brand abroad and it was the first ones he had done for months, so it is possible to get Z horses without brands.

With the passport system over here, you can call a horse anything you like ie Brand Z and get a passport with the name on it and made up breeding. (how about this for a H&amp;H story, see if we can get a passport for the best bred horse ever using a donkey!!)Not an original passport but you have a Z horse. Also with the technology around, you can fake passports, and if for instance have a Zangersheide passport for a horse this could add a few thousand pounds to a horses value = good profit for dealer. Unless the owner pays to have it DNA tested, who will know (unless they are microchipped at birth now, but then people will say the micro chip has moved). 10 years ago horses didn't need passports and I have heard of people hanginging onto passports because the new owners didn't want them, put these to a differnt horse and you have got a horse with different bloodlines. What happens to passports when a horse dies or is put to sleep? many ways round to change identity.


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## anniedoherty (20 July 2007)

The Voice - I'm not sure if your reply was intended for me or the OP?  My horse is branded with a Z,  I am sure that his passport is genuine. It is signed by Hugo Cooreman and the description fits the horse.  All I wanted to know is what sort of horse he is.  I am a novice who knows nothing at all about breeding and Anastasia and bbmat (who obviously know what they are talking about) have both told me that he isn't a KWPN which leaves me with the question - what breed is he then?  You will have to excuse my ignorance but I really don't know.   He is going up for sale this weekend and I don't want to put the wrong description on his advert!  If anyone can enlighten me I'd be very grateful and I am sorry to hijack your post MissB.


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## The Voice (20 July 2007)

Hi 
If it is branded and the passport is ok then it would be a horse that is registered with Studbook Zangersheide, which would be good and I would call it that and say that you have the passport and it is branded. 
The horse could also be registered with the KWPN as you can register with more than one stud book but it sounds like a Z horse. 
Our top mare as an example has Holstein bloodlines, KWPN Papers, registered with Zangersheide and AES so I would say she is Holstein bloodlines with Dutch Papers
Out of interest, What is the breeding and where was the breeder?


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## anniedoherty (20 July 2007)

Thank you.  Now I understand what bbmat and Anastasia were trying to tell me.

This is a link to his breeding.

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/capon+de+ville+z

None of the documents which came with him are in English but I think his breeder was in Belgium.


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## ErinDoig (22 July 2007)

Surely Zangersheide is not a breed as such as it seems as though they can be dutch, german, belgian etc? So it is possible to have a papered dutch warmblood horse registered with zangersheide? Surely they have to have come from a stallion at zangersheide?


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## ErinDoig (22 July 2007)

oh just read all that again i sort of understand now!


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