# Single Horse Trailers and Towing without needing to do your test?!



## EquestrianFairy (18 December 2008)

Question A)

Single horse trailers, are they any good in regard to safety and sturdiness? A CHEVAL LIBERTE is the one im looking at in particular as its lighweight and ive not got a big load to work on (1650kg) 

Question B) Is it true that single horse trailers generally mean you dont have to take the 'trailer test'? Anyone know where i can find out this info for sure?

Thankies


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## JM07 (18 December 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
Question A)

Single horse trailers, are they any good in regard to safety and sturdiness? A CHEVAL LIBERTE is the one im looking at in particular as its lighweight and ive not got a big load to work on (1650kg) 

 <font color="blue">i've never seen the point of single trailers TBH  </font> 

Question B) Is it true that single horse trailers generally mean you dont have to take the 'trailer test'? Anyone know where i can find out this info for sure?
 <font color="blue">  you still need to take your test</font> 


[/ QUOTE ]


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## Ezme (18 December 2008)

Why would you not need to take the trailer test? Its just as long.... 

And i wouldn't limit myself to a single horse trailer. You never know what'll come up


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## Abbeygale (18 December 2008)

it is the gross weight of the towing vehicle and trailer that is the limiting factor. You can tow lightweight trailers on your licence if you have done your test post 1999. 

there is some info here: 

http://www.autow.co.uk/smmt/trailer_restrictions/driving_licence.aspx

I think that most trailers, with the weight of the horse and the towing vehicle will be over the limit.  

Personally I don't like single horse trailers - they always look very rocky when they are towing.


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## Abbeygale (18 December 2008)

Here is a better website that explains it a bit better: 

http://www.driveandtow.co.uk/80509/info.php?p=5


the limit is based on the weight of the towing vehicle and trailer - but even small trailers are still pretty heavy

Even so - even if it was under weight - I wouldn't want to tow a trailer without having undertaken some training personally.


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## EquestrianFairy (18 December 2008)

Ive come to the conclusion i am going to have to buy a single trailer- or be without transport for the forseeable future.

Unless i can find a double trailer that weighs the same as a single.. which is unlikley plus- i couldnt pull two horses anyway with the capacity i have available.

I can pull one horse (horse in question is only 15hh) and a lightweight (single it seems) trailer easily within my limit.

I had come across a forum where someone was saying they dont need the test because the MAM was under the limit- looks like they were wrong! Typical.


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## EquestrianFairy (18 December 2008)

FB- that website was brilliant!

It does show that i can legally tow without taking a trailer test which is good news- however this doesnt mean i wouldnt take up some training as i most definatly would (it just wouldnt cost me the expense a trailer test does!)

I'm still going to phone and double check it though!!


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## Lulup (18 December 2008)

No they're not wrong it is all about the weight when it comes to towing/trailer test - you need to check out the exact figures for yourself but when I looked into it I found that it was possible to tow a single trailer without taking the trailer test - provided that the towing vehicle wasn't an overly heavy one. If you only have one 15hh horse to tow and this solves your transport problem then go for it. Its very easy for people to dismiss singe trailers but they are safe (or they wouldn't be legal) and provide a viable option for some people.  
	
	
		
		
	


	





p.s the Ifor Williams website gives some info about it all if I remember rightly.


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## JM07 (18 December 2008)

so you passed your test before 1997 then?


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## SilverSkye (18 December 2008)

Nicked this from another forum............ 
confirmation of law regarding weights when towing 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.vosa.gov.uk/vosacorp/repo...&amp;id=486b0ff012


* Trailer gross weight MUST be equal to or below the tow cars maximum towing capacity.

* Then trailers unladen weight + contents must be equal to or below the trailers maximum capacity.

Basically, that is the law as enforced by VOSA. If you dont heed this, and you get stopped or are in an accident you will be liable for a fine and invalidating your insurance. Your vehicle's max towing capacity will be in the manufacturers handbook on or a plate , often inside your door. Trailer weights can be found on the plate near the towhitch.

Dont bother asking the DVLA for clarification, they deal with licensing... they are also giving a lot of people the wrong info, as are some local police! Some people are gretting it wrong as they are going by the unladen weights of their trailers - you must go by the gross weight, even if its empty.

------------------------------------

You can have your trailer plate sent away by for eg, an ifor dealer and have it derated to a lower maximum weight, for a very small cost. 

EG. 4x4 max towing capacity 2 tonnes
Double ifor HB505 max weight 2340kg, unladen weight 905kg.

As it is this it not a legal combo to tow. However, have the plate on the trailer derated to 2tonnes and you are now legal.... and you still have just over a tonne of load capacity... fine if you are towing say one horse (500kg) and hay/water etc. The only problem with doing this is if you intend to use the box for say 2x 16.2hh each 550-600kg as you would end up over weight.

You must also make sure you have category E on your license, and will need to sit a test if you passed since 1997. This is where the DVLA CAN advise you http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring...les/DG_4022564 

Not sure if it helps?


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## EquestrianFairy (18 December 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
so you passed your test before 1997 then? 

[/ QUOTE ]

I wish, wouldnt things be so much easier! I passed in 2003 but it states that:

A vehicle with an unladen weight of 1250kg and a MAM of 2000kg, towing a trailer with a MAM of 1000kg could be driven by a category B licence holder (Post 1997). This is because the combined MAM of the vehicle and the trailer does not exceed 3500kg and the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the vehicle.

Which reads to me, with me putting my weights in that i can legally tow without sitting the trailer test. I have a B+E on my driving license.


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## EquestrianFairy (18 December 2008)

Thanks SilverSkye, i *think* im sort of getting it but i will def need to ring for clarification. Is it VOSA i need to speak to if DVLA are advising the wrong information?


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## SilverSkye (18 December 2008)

Spent ages looking at info for a friend ( was a few years ago) and i think we worked out legally she could tow a cheval liberte single horse trailer ( couldn't the ifor as is slightly heavier) off her kia sportage with one horse and just be within the limit, we tried vosa and dvla and in honesty both were pretty useless for help.  However i was stopped at the VOSA weighbridge with the trailer and the man there was very aware of the rules to the point they were insisting 1 lorry had to leave a horse behind as it was overweight and wouldnt let them go!! If you have a Vosa weighbridge nearby not sure if you could drive down and ask someone there??


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## WelshFox (18 December 2008)

There is a weighbridge close to us that you could try.  It's up by Corner Park Garage if I remember correctly (hubby did his HGV test and had to go there for something or other).


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## EquestrianFairy (18 December 2008)

thankyou both silverskye and welshfox, currently i don't have any trailer to weigh but its something i will definately look into. I've worked out the weights myself (although, obv they may not be correct as it is me doing them and i'm rubbish at these things) and it does seem that i'm well within my limit with 400kg to spare for tack etc. Unfort the trailer i need seems to rarely come up 2nd hand. Typical.


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## palomino698 (18 December 2008)

Wouldn't it be cheaper in the long run, and much more practical, to do your towing test?  Then you'll have access to a much wider range of trailers and probably find one much less expensive than the range you're looking at.


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## SSM (19 December 2008)

Before you invest, make sure the horse will go into a single trailer - I know I would never get Donkey into one.


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## Ambypamby (19 December 2008)

Hi There 

I have an old rice single horse trailer. My OH bought it for me as an exmas present after LOTS of research and spaeking to DVLA i found that the weight of EVERYTHING (trailer, car, horse, equipment) was just under 3 and a half ton and you can pull that on your normal licence after 1999. Go to a weighstation and get it all weighed.It was admin getting it sorted as i needed a car powerful enought but not to heavy to go over the combined weight of 3.5 ton but heavy enough to pull the trailer legally. My horse is 15.3 and he fits in just fine. He actually quite likes it and there and there is a nice big window at the front for him to look out of. Because it was old we had to do lots of work to it and it took ages. also i painted it bright red and put all new flooring in. Im really pleased with it. Sometimes I get some funny looks when i go to shows as its not very posh but i dont care as its safe and i have my independance with my horse and dont have to rely on mum or dad. I would certanly reccomend getting one but if your planning on having more than one horse then probs best to get your test done. I have no problem towing at all im never nervous and i hardly notice its there its so light and im lucky as my boy travels really well. I think of your nervous and your horse moves around a lot i would get some tuition to be on the safe side. Also someone came to my yard the other day towing a double trailer with a convertible car!


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## Sooty (19 December 2008)

The only thing you can tow without taking the test is a hobby trailer. It is woefully unclear on the DVLA website, but it boils down to you will need to pass the test. Anyway, it is good to learn to tow properly.


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## Baileyhoss (19 December 2008)

Why do people try so hard to avoid taking the tests?.  

Single trailers, are expensive and hard to come by second hand, compared to doubles, which you can always find at good value on the second hand market and you would have freedom of choice in getting a good safe sturdy towing car, with a clutch and gear system designed for towing.

3.5t lorries are ridiculously expensive and you'll get crap for your money second hand in comparison to say a 5 or 7.5 ton.

Plus the headache of what you can and can't take to keep the weight down &amp; the fact you'll never be able to take a friend to share diesel costs.

You would save yourself money in the long term by taking the test


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## FigJam (19 December 2008)

As always, there is a lot of incertainty over the rule and laws regarding towing without the B+E entitlement!  (and, as always, a lot of people looking down their noses at single horse trailers!)

Firstly, regarding the law, in order to tow a trailer without the B+E entitlement on your licence, you must meet the following criteria;

<ul type="square">  
[*]Car's kerb weight must be greater than the trailer's MAM and
[*]Car's MAM + Trailer's MAM must be less than 3.5t
[/list] 

You can find your car's kerb weight on the V5 sheet (needed for MOTs, tax etc) and it's MAM will be stamped on the chassis plate.  It will be the second highest weight printed on the plate.  The highest is the gross train weight (maximum laden weight and maximum towing weight combined), then next highest is your car's MAM, then the other two weights are the axel's MAM.

The trailer's MAM can be found on it's chassis plate and this can be changed by the manufacturer to whatever you want, as long as it's between the range stamped on the hitch/coupling.  Obviously, you need to be aware of the trailer's unladen weight and how much payload you require.

My set up is;

Ford Mondeo (2l, 130bhp turbo diesel, very torquey and more than powerful enough), max. towing capability 1800kg, kerb weight 1505kg, MAM 2035kg.

Ifor Williams HB401, unladen weight 770kg, MAM 1450kg (downrated by Ifor Williams themselves and plate changed by Ifor Williams dealer), giving a payload of 680kg, which is plenty for my 15.2 girly and her haynet!

So car kerb weight is more than trailer MAM and trailer MAM + car MAM = 1450 + 2035 = 3485kg which is less than 3500kg.  
	
	
		
		
	


	





The car pulls the trailer brilliantly, has no problems accelerating, braking, up hill, down hill and my mare loads far better into the single trailer than she did into my friend's Bateson Ascot.  The space they have in a single is 1.5x that in half a double, so they're actually more spacious for them.  Plus, I think she likes knowing that there definitely can't be any other horses squeezed in beside her, she likes her own space!  
	
	
		
		
	


	





I love my trailer and so does my horse.  Although in an ideal world, everyone would have brand new big lorries or huge 4x4s to tow with, it's just now practical for everyone and for me this is the only way at the moment to get out and about and enjoy having my horse.  

My set up is probably far safer than some of the rusty old lorries or lighter 4x4s towing big, heavy old trailers that are around.  Both car and trailer are serviced regularly and I drive according to the road, weather and my set up.

Single trailers are hard to come by second hand and to get one in good nick and not too old, you won't save much on the new price.  It's also tricky getting the car/MAM matched up, but as proven above, is do-able.

Good luck with your hunt!


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## alsxx (19 December 2008)

Thanks Figjam thats really useful about the list of weights on chassis plate - i have been looking for ages trying to find an explanation of what weight is what!! Where did you get that info from?


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## embonaught (19 December 2008)

All I can say is hooray for the single trailer. I have an Ifor and my 16.2 girly goes in and travels just fine. As for people saying how unsteady they are, I'm guessing you've never towed one? 
Call me selfish, the single suits me fine because I don't have to worry about people asking for lifts all the time  
	
	
		
		
	


	




 I'm really pleased with it. And the reason you don't find many on the secondhand market, is because people just don't part with them!!


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## EquestrianFairy (19 December 2008)

FigJam- in your post you say 'without a B+E entitlement'

But i have a B+E entitlement.. does that mean i have different weights i can legally tow?

For the second time- i will be getting some extra towing help/training for those who seem concerned.


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## Abbeygale (19 December 2008)

Christmas fairy - are you sure that the B+E is not just showing your provisonal entitlement?  So you are allowed to tow on L plates -but not that you are licenced to tow.  

Don't forget that when you are considering the weight of the towing vehicle and trailer, that you have to include the weight of the horse in that weight as well.


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## alsxx (19 December 2008)

What amazes me though ChristmasFairy, are the people that hold their license from before 1997 and who just seem to think they can hitch up and tow away with no instruction....yet for those that can avoid having to take a test through balancing the weights (post 97 license holders), people seem to give them a hard time about it.

?????


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## FigJam (19 December 2008)

I think I posted on a geeky car forum and someone there was able to explain it to me!   
	
	
		
		
	


	




  There may also be an explaination of the plate in the handbook?  It's so hard finding all this information from reliable sources, isn't it?


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## alsxx (19 December 2008)

Thanks! No nothing in the book, only the maximum trailer weight! I even phoned loads of dealerships to see if they knew, they were none too helpful!!

Sorry for post hijacking btw!


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## FigJam (19 December 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
FigJam- in your post you say 'without a B+E entitlement'

But i have a B+E entitlement.. does that mean i have different weights i can legally tow?

For the second time- i will be getting some extra towing help/training for those who seem concerned. 

[/ QUOTE ]

ChristmasFairy, if you passed your test 1997 onwards and have not done your B+E test (which I'm sure you would remember doing!  
	
	
		
		
	


	




 ), then the entitlement will be (as someone else has mentioned) a provisional entitlement and means you can tow a trailer (with no car weight to trailer weight restrictions other than safety and common sense).  

However, it must be with L plates on and with a fully entitled driver (with full B+E entitlement on licence) in the car.  You cannot drive on motorways in this situation.


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## FigJam (19 December 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
What amazes me though ChristmasFairy, are the people that hold their license from before 1997 and who just seem to think they can hitch up and tow away with no instruction....yet for those that can avoid having to take a test through balancing the weights (post 97 license holders), people seem to give them a hard time about it.

????? 

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a really good point alsxx, I'd never thought of it that way!  Plus, people who have done loads of research into making sure the car/trailer combo match up to "get around" the B+E restrictions are probably way more informed of towing laws than a heck of a lot of folk who have pre-1997 licences and just hitch up and go!   

I know I certainly put a lot of effort into making sure I was legal and safe before going out on the roads with my trailer.  Probably much more so than if I knew I was just able to tow anything I wanted.  I even carry a copy of an official DVLA booklet along with my car's docs which has the explaination regarding car/trailer weight relation in it just in case I get stopped and quizzed!


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## FigJam (19 December 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks! No nothing in the book, only the maximum trailer weight! I even phoned loads of dealerships to see if they knew, they were none too helpful!!

Sorry for post hijacking btw! 

[/ QUOTE ]

No bother, it's so frustrating trying to work out what it all means and where to find the proof!  I'm such a geek when it comes to this topic as I spent about three months this summer researching and figuring it all out!  
	
	
		
		
	


	









What's really frustrating is folk who tell me I'm wrong.  They tend to be people with pre-1997 licences who have never had any need to consider it, which is understandable, why would you if you didn't need to?  But please don't tell the person who has spend hours trawling dull DVLA/VOSA/car documents and triple checked it all that they're talking nonsense when you know nothing about the subject!!!


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## chestnut cob (19 December 2008)

I think that B+E is just your provisional entitlement, which means as someone else says, you can tow with L plates on (with someone else who IS entitled to tow, ie taken test or passed test before 1997) and NOT on your own.

Seriously, just take the test.  I had to take mine and I feel a lot happier having done it.  I have friends who passed their tests a year or two before me who tow and they are awful; they don't know the speed limits they are supposed to drive at with trailer, can't park it, will only park in certain places in case they get stuck.  One of them has to drive the route to anywhere she goes in trailer the day before because she's so terrified (that includes somewhere a few hours away - she will still drive it the day before in her car) and flat refuses to drive any faster than 30mph.  Another thinks she can drive just as quickly with the trailer as without so goes down country lanes at 70mph  
	
	
		
		
	


	





As for the trailer, I personally don't like Cheval Liberte trailers but it's just personal - think they look like ice cream vans and I don't know any horses who will load in them without causing a fuss.  I've towed one and I found it felt like it could take off at any minute.  Give me my solid old Ifor any day!


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## EquestrianFairy (19 December 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
What amazes me though ChristmasFairy, are the people that hold their license from before 1997 and who just seem to think they can hitch up and tow away with no instruction....yet for those that can avoid having to take a test through balancing the weights (post 97 license holders), people seem to give them a hard time about it.

????? 

[/ QUOTE ]

I know exactly what you mean!


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## EquestrianFairy (19 December 2008)

Figjam- I understand now about the B+E provision entitlement as i dont remeber doing any additional test other than my driving test. However my mum passed in 1984 (wayyyyy before 1997 
	
	
		
		
	


	




) and she will be with me at all times so i am still legal.

Im really not set against doing my test, but i had started to reseach exactly what i can tow and hence started doing some figures and realised i dont have to do it thats all.

I havent got some nice 4x4 to pull a trailer, i have a my OH's new estate car instead which means i have a very limited pulling power and have to work with what ive got which is fine but i think regardless of my test the estate will not pull a double horse trailer so im going to have to opt for a single trailer.


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## Divasmum (19 December 2008)

Cheval Liberte does a single that weighs 500 kg. Tows well and is nice and stable.


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## FigJam (19 December 2008)

Well if you have your Mum with you and L-plates on, you don't have to worry about the weight relationship between car and trailer in legal terms.  Like I say though, you won't be able to tow on motorways, so may involve slight detours depending on where you want to go!

What estate car is it?  Parkers is pretty good for giving an idea of weights, but of course the best place to get accurate numbers specifically for your car are the chassis plate and V5 as I mentioned earlier.

As someone else has mentioned, modern single trailers (not the old "wardrobes on wheels" as my husband refers to the ancient ones!) are not unstable and absolutely perfect for the one horse owner who doesn't have a big 4x4.  Certainly safer than trying to pull a big double trailer with a car not up to it.


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## chestnut cob (19 December 2008)

What car is it?  You might be surprised....


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## EquestrianFairy (19 December 2008)

Its a Vauxhall Omega estate 2.6 V6.

Its Kerb Weight is: 1658kg
Cars MAM is: 2258kg
Trailers unladen is 550kg
Laden (with horsey!) around 1000kg

So the cars MAM and trailers MAM is around 3288kg (well under the 3.5tonnes) plus, the car is still approx 600kgs heavier than the trailer keeping me within that limit.

Have a got it right?


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## chestnut cob (19 December 2008)

What's the towing capacity?


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## PeterNatt (19 December 2008)

In an emergency situation (such as a tyre blow out) you need to know that you can stop your vehicle and bring it under control quickly.  When you are near to the vehicles weight and breaking limits the chances of doing so are very much reduced.

You have a responsibility towards your horse and also that of the motoring public so take a test and get yourself a vehicle and trailer which will enable you to comply with all the requirements.


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## FigJam (19 December 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
Its a Vauxhall Omega estate 2.6 V6.

Its Kerb Weight is: 1658kg
Cars MAM is: 2258kg
Trailers unladen is 550kg
Laden (with horsey!) around 1000kg

So the cars MAM and trailers MAM is around 3288kg (well under the 3.5tonnes) plus, the car is still approx 600kgs heavier than the trailer keeping me within that limit.

Have a got it right? 

[/ QUOTE ]

The Trailer's MAM is not just the weight of trailer + load it's actually carrying, it's the Maximum Authorised Mass that it can legally carry.  For example, my IW 401 has MAM 1450kg, but weighs 770kg and carrys ~600kg when horse + hay on board, so actual weight I'm towing is only 1370kg.  Does that make sense?

With your set up, you can have a trailer with a MAM up to 1242kg MAM (3500kg - car MAM of 2258kg).  This MAM is also less than the kerb weight, so you're fine on that front.

This does pretty much restrict you to the Cheval Liberte 1003XL, which you should be able to get downrated to 1200kg, leaving you 700kg payload.

However, if you are looking to tow with your Mum on board and L-plates, you can tow a trailer with any MAM as long as the actual weight you are towing is safely within your car's capabilities.  Does that make sense?!


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## EquestrianFairy (19 December 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
In an emergency situation (such as a tyre blow out) you need to know that you can stop your vehicle and bring it under control quickly.  When you are near to the vehicles weight and breaking limits the chances of doing so are very much reduced.

You have a responsibility towards your horse and also that of the motoring public so take a test and get yourself a vehicle and trailer which will enable you to comply with all the requirements. 

[/ QUOTE ]

I am complying with the requirements if you bothered to read the post properly! We do not all have the luxury of owning 4x4s to tow with so dont patronise me by speaking to me like a child.  
	
	
		
		
	


	





CC- max towing capacity is 1650 or 85% is 1409.


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## FigJam (19 December 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
In an emergency situation (such as a tyre blow out) you need to know that you can stop your vehicle and bring it under control quickly.  When you are near to the vehicles weight and breaking limits the chances of doing so are very much reduced.

You have a responsibility towards your horse and also that of the motoring public so take a test and get yourself a vehicle and trailer which will enable you to comply with all the requirements. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course this is true, but by sticking to the restrictions imposed on those without B+E entitlements, the set up will be much further within the towing vehicle's capabilities than many set ups driven by older drivers who aren't restricted in this way.

How many times have you seen a big old Rice trailer being towed by a Freelander?  By having to stay within the restrictions for towing without the B+E, I am well within my car's stated towing capacity of 1800kg.  If it were my husband towing, he could chuck a IW510 on the back with a large horse and tow 1700kg, but it wouldn't be as safe as my current set up?  
	
	
		
		
	


	





Not everyone has the funds to run a 4x4 and towing with a large family car and lighter single trailer is just as good as towing with a smaller 4x4 and larger trailer which many people do.  It's just everyone seems to look down their nose at you.


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## alsxx (19 December 2008)

Well said FigJam - I honestly wonder how many trailer set ups there are out there that are unsafe, but just because they have their license to tow they do so without a second thought. And quite often cant tow very well either!!

I'm trying to work out all my weights to find out if its possible for me to tow; I will still have a few lessons but it works out better for me (plus my cars towing capability is only 1500kgs so if I did take a test I'm still limited by what I can tow anyway!) than going and buying a 3.5t box cheaply that isnt particulary safe.


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## EquestrianFairy (19 December 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Its a Vauxhall Omega estate 2.6 V6.

Its Kerb Weight is: 1658kg
Cars MAM is: 2258kg
Trailers unladen is 550kg
Laden (with horsey!) around 1000kg

So the cars MAM and trailers MAM is around 3288kg (well under the 3.5tonnes) plus, the car is still approx 600kgs heavier than the trailer keeping me within that limit.

Have a got it right? 

[/ QUOTE ]

The Trailer's MAM is not just the weight of trailer + load it's actually carrying, it's the Maximum Authorised Mass that it can legally carry.  For example, my IW 401 has MAM 1450kg, but weighs 770kg and carrys ~600kg when horse + hay on board, so actual weight I'm towing is only 1370kg.  Does that make sense?

With your set up, you can have a trailer with a MAM up to 1242kg MAM (3500kg - car MAM of 2258kg).  This MAM is also less than the kerb weight, so you're fine on that front.

This does pretty much restrict you to the Cheval Liberte 1003XL, which you should be able to get downrated to 1200kg, leaving you 700kg payload.

However, if you are looking to tow with your Mum on board and L-plates, you can tow a trailer with any MAM as long as the actual weight you are towing is safely within your car's capabilities.  Does that make sense?! 

[/ QUOTE ]

Ohh yes i see, i wasnt taking into consideration my trailers MAM- it states on the Cheval webiste that the series 1000's MAM is 1400kg..

My mum will be coming with me all times, bless her!


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## FigJam (19 December 2008)

Lucky you having a Mum happy to come along with you.  Mine has only met my horse a few times and just stands at a distance saying "yes, she's pretty"!  She's a little scared of horses!

My husband is very happy that I've been able to get a set up which means I can tow her around myself, saves him being dragged along  all the time, it's only some of the time now!  
	
	
		
		
	


	





You are probably able to downrate the CL to 1200kg, may be worth asking the manufacturer direct?  Saves you needing the L-plates and avoiding motorways.  Just to bear in mind for the future.

Good luck with the trailer hunt, it's worth the slog, I love my wee Trev!


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## EquestrianFairy (19 December 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
Lucky you having a Mum happy to come along with you.  Mine has only met my horse a few times and just stands at a distance saying "yes, she's pretty"!  She's a little scared of horses!

My husband is very happy that I've been able to get a set up which means I can tow her around myself, saves him being dragged along  all the time, it's only some of the time now!  
	
	
		
		
	


	





You are probably able to downrate the CL to 1200kg, may be worth asking the manufacturer direct?  Saves you needing the L-plates and avoiding motorways.  Just to bear in mind for the future.

Good luck with the trailer hunt, it's worth the slog, I love my wee Trev! 
	
	
		
		
	


	





[/ QUOTE ]

Im going to buy brand new as they just dont seem to come up 2nd hand and if they do- they're not much cheaper!
I want to make sure its all legal incase there are days my mum wont be able to come although she loves horses she doesnt ride and obv has other things to do than cart me around everywhere  
	
	
		
		
	


	





Thankyou for all your help!


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## FigJam (19 December 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
Well said FigJam - I honestly wonder how many trailer set ups there are out there that are unsafe, but just because they have their license to tow they do so without a second thought. And quite often cant tow very well either!!

I'm trying to work out all my weights to find out if its possible for me to tow; I will still have a few lessons but it works out better for me (plus my cars towing capability is only 1500kgs so if I did take a test I'm still limited by what I can tow anyway!) than going and buying a 3.5t box cheaply that isnt particulary safe. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks!  It gets very frustrating, but I'm glad some folk understand what I'm saying!

What is your car's kerb weight?  That will be the toughest part to get matched up, as if it's tow capability is only 1500kg, it sounds like it may be a slightly lighter car and therefore hard to get a trailer with a small enough MAM but enough payload for you.   
	
	
		
		
	


	




  That's the tricky part, along with have a car heavy enough kerb weight but small enough MAM to meet both criteria!

You would certainly get a much better condition trailer for your money than a 3.5t lorry, plus the running costs of a trailer are so much less.  The new 3.5t lorries are fab, but SO expensive!  Could do the test and run a 4x4 and bigger trailer cheaper probably!

I best remember to pick up a lottery ticket on the way home tonight, eh?!


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## FigJam (19 December 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
 Im going to buy brand new as they just dont seem to come up 2nd hand and if they do- they're not much cheaper!
I want to make sure its all legal incase there are days my mum wont be able to come although she loves horses she doesnt ride and obv has other things to do than cart me around everywhere  
	
	
		
		
	


	





Thankyou for all your help! 
	
	
		
		
	


	





[/ QUOTE ]

You're more than welcome, I know how confusing it is trying to work out what's right information and what's wrong!

If you are wanting to make sure you're legal on the odd occasion going without your Mum, you will need to downrate the trailer's MAM to less than your car's kerb weight, which for you would be something like 1200kg.  This still leaves you 700kg which is enough for your horse plus a haynet.

You asking Santa very nicely then?  At least you'll get to pick your preferred colour too!  
	
	
		
		
	


	




  (it's a good idea to go for a lighter colour as this stops the trailer getting too hot in the summer, although CL have nice white roofs and are fibreglass, not metal, so should be good at deflecting heat anyway.)


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## dieseldog (19 December 2008)

If you drove around France all you ever see is single horse trailers, usually with a Sulky on the back.


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## alsxx (19 December 2008)

I'm not sure, I am going to go and work out chassis plate tomorrow with a print out of your instructions!!

Its a 5 door older Rav-4, the largest number on the chassis plate is I think about 3800kgs - i could be wrong - (which I'm guessing includes the 1500kg max towing capacity)so I just need to find out what weights are what, and then work out what trailers I can get at what MAM - I looked at the CL ones and they can plate them at as low as 1100kg MAM, my mare is only 450kg which is lucky so I could get away with that - fingers crossed.

I've looked at the van-boxes and I could probably only afford £4k tops, which isn't going to get me much unless I am very lucky (which I tend not to be!!).


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## FigJam (19 December 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure, I am going to go and work out chassis plate tomorrow with a print out of your instructions!!

Its a 5 door older Rav-4, the largest number on the chassis plate is I think about 3800kgs - i could be wrong - (which I'm guessing includes the 1500kg max towing capacity)so I just need to find out what weights are what, and then work out what trailers I can get at what MAM - I looked at the CL ones and they can plate them at as low as 1100kg MAM, my mare is only 450kg which is lucky so I could get away with that - fingers crossed.

I've looked at the van-boxes and I could probably only afford £4k tops, which isn't going to get me much unless I am very lucky (which I tend not to be!!). 

[/ QUOTE ]

According to Parkers (I just looked up a random model, you'll be able to pin point the actual one you have!) here:  Toyota Rav4 2.0 GX 5d Facts &amp; Figures  that type of car weighs 1310kg, so a CL rated at 1100kg MAM would meet the criteria.

The 3800kg figure should be the gross train weight so 3800kg-1500kg = 2300kg for your car's MAM.  (this should be the second highest figure on your chassis plate)  Add this to a 1100kg MAM trailer and you are within the 3500kg, happy days!  
	
	
		
		
	


	





A new CL will be less than your 4k budget and much safer than a lorry at that price range.


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## alsxx (19 December 2008)

Good guess it is the GX model!! 

A new CL is about half of my budget which is quite good to know....and as I think someone else said - with a single trailer you cant give anyone a lift!! (I say my budget - what I could get on a loan so obviously the less the better!)

I may pm you though once I check its plate jsut to be sure!!


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## FigJam (19 December 2008)

[ QUOTE ]
Good guess it is the GX model!! 

A new CL is about half of my budget which is quite good to know....and as I think someone else said - with a single trailer you cant give anyone a lift!! (I say my budget - what I could get on a loan so obviously the less the better!)

I may pm you though once I check its plate jsut to be sure!! 

[/ QUOTE ]

That was a good guess!  
	
	
		
		
	


	




  Fingers crossed your car's MAM and kerb weight fit in nicely with a CL, they do hold their value as they're so rare to come by 2nd hand, so it's an investment really!  
	
	
		
		
	


	




  (that was my excuse to my husband!)

I'm loving having freedom, have neever had the opportunity to get out and about before so have been really busy his last month going to lessons and even my first ever competition!  
	
	
		
		
	


	





Here's my girly trying out her new wheels for the first time back in September when I got Trev;







She'd been refusing to go in my friend's Bateson Ascot, but stomped straight on to the IW first time!


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## Abbeygale (19 December 2008)

Figjam - are you sure about the not being able to tow on motorways.  When I did my hgv test (different thing I know - but the training is along the same vein - as in furthering your driving licence) we were allowed to drive on the motorway, and did so regularly in our lessons. 

You are probably right - you know a whole load about this more than I do for sure!!!


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## FigJam (19 December 2008)

To be honest, the not towing on motorways under a provisional licence was told to me by yard mate who has recently done her B+E and was towing for a couple of years with L-plates/"supervisor".  It made sense to me as drivers on a "normal" provisional licence aren't allowed to drive on motorways, so figured it would be the same rules for a provisional licence of any category.


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## SpruceRI (19 December 2008)

Just a quickie question?

How much is the trailer test and do you have to have 'official training' or can you just get your Dad to take you out?

A friend is in the same quandary as all of you.


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## EquestrianFairy (20 December 2008)

I believe that you have to take the 'official' training.


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## Roasted Chestnuts (20 December 2008)

I hate to say that the MAM of your trailer can be anything you want it to be.

Replaiting your trailer be it a 505 of a 510 or any other type of trailer allows you to tow with cars with lower MAMs.

Which means that you could technically buy a 505 have it replated for a max of what ever you like and tow with a post 1997 licence.

I have been calling various gov bodies about this for months and I keep getting told that as long as you car is legal to tow the trailer with the MAM then your licence allows you to tow what is acutally in the trailer as long as car plus trailer plus horse is under 3.5tonnes.

So for instance 2 ton car+900kg trailer+500kg horse means your legal to tow with a post 1997 licence.

Now before anyone jumps on my head here I am only putting forward my side of things. I have spent ages on this as well. My OH is doing his trailer test in the new year as I will be getting a second pony and there for will be over the limit with two ponies on my 505.

My dad tows with pre 1997 licence and does so with due care and attention, he has been driving racehorses around with a 4x4 and a trailer for years as well as towing cattle and sheep from being a farmer so the attcks on pre 1997 licence holders I find rather distastefull!!! 
	
	
		
		
	


	





Nikki xxx


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## SpruceRI (21 December 2008)

So, anyone know how much the training is?  How many lessons you 'have to have' and how much the test costs?

Ta


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