# Burns dog food - Any views ? anyone tried it ?



## BBH (29 March 2010)

If so is it any good. Am wanting something that may help boost my dogs immune system as he now seems to be getting conjunctivitis which the vet has said is linked to his itchy skin .

I have read its all natural but so are other brands.

PS He is currently on JWB but although good isn't helping / aiding his problems.


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## smiffyimp (29 March 2010)

Hi Mine have been on Burns since pups and they love it. All natural - no EC allowed **** in there. Cant comment on the conjunctivitis, but my Setter has survived meningitis and bloat/stomach torsion - how much Burns had to do with it I'm not sure, but def gets thumbs up from us


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## galaxy (29 March 2010)

My 6 month old has been on it for 2 months (high energy lamb).  Was on Hills Natures Best before.  I didn't think he was doing badly on it (but it had bad reviews online), so I changes to Burns and not only does he have a shiner coat and put on more weight which he needed (and it's cheaper to feed! Feed smaller amounts, less per bag and bags are bigger) but his poo's have gone nice and solid.  He doesn't go as much and they're really firm.  I was always told you can tell about whether what your feeding a dog is good by what is coming out of them!


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## KarynK (29 March 2010)

Don't know how exactly they are defining "Natural" but dog food is unregulated and they can say what they like basically but I'm afraid that it is very far from a dogs natural diet!  This makes me so angry that they can get away with what they do in advertising!!!!!!

Dogs have a carnivorous dental system and digestive system, there is no requirement for carbohydrate in their diet at all, they cannot chew their food, they have no sideways jaw movement yet we feed them like a rabbit.  Their natural energy requirement is met entirely from proteins and fats yet here we have food that is 50-70% complex carbohydrates and it is called Natural.  It is also not raw but highly cooked, something a dog cannot do is cook.

Not only that but if that foods title was to be put on a Human meal they would be pounced upon by trading standards!  Chicken & Maize for example is in fact Maize and a bit of Chicken (which part of the chicken is not listed).  The ratio is in fact a whopping 70% Maize (all be it gluten free) and a measly 16% Chicken Meal (Remember that post saying what the ingredients in pet food meant?  Meal = rendered meat, basically all the leftovers are put into a vat, boiled, then dried out and ground into a fine powder. This process will destroy everything good and bad, bacteria, parasites and other possible pathogens but also nutritional elements which are artificially replaced afterwards.)  Maybe they replace theirs from a "Natural" source or maybe they have someone else add it back to the chicken meal so that they do not have to declare it!

If you really want to feed this I would cut out the middle man and buy some maize from your feed merchant chuck in a handful of seaweed pick your chicken carcass after Sunday lunch and add a bit of gravy and veg oil and you will have fed your dog something similar to your horse with gravy and a hint of chicken! 

They list Sunflower oil as a source of Essential Fatty Acids in their foods.  Essential Fatty Acids are just that Essential as the body does not produce them, most notably veg sources are hugely lacking in Omega 3s  EPA and DHA which are essential for Dogs and Cats and sadly highly lacking in most diets.

Rice and Maize are foods a dog would not eat naturally other than partially digested stomach content of their prey, basically if a dog had evolved to eat them it would be out eating alongside the herbivores not hunting and eating them.

Minerals in this diet comes from what I can gather entirely from seaweed, Ive never seen a dog eat that naturally though it is fed in some Raw diets.  ALL a dogs natural  mineral requirements are met by eating raw bone.

Apparently other than their high-energy foods all their diets are low in fat and protein and high in complex carbohydrate. More suitable for horses I would say.  Apparently 
carbohydrate produces less harmful toxic waste than protein and fat.  Thats a new one on me so the Carnivores of Africa must all be highly toxic!!!  But I have never seen mines waste glow in the dark, since it is hard,  doesnt smell offensive  and doesnt stick to your shoe I must deduce that it must be ok!

Now there is a huge pointer in the High Energy and working dog feeds, ever wonder exactly why they cost more and are higher in protein?  Because when a dog works hard it needs to get its energy from Protein (which of course is more expensive in a food!).  If a dog tried to use Carbs as an energy source like we humans do when needing stamina, it will cause a build up of lactic acid in the muscles preventing it from working.  

The truth is Carbs are cheap and bulk out the food, all the rest brown rice, peas etc is all to appeal to us humans since that is what we are supposed to eat and the sales pitch works!

Shame really it appears the idea behind the current food was well intentioned.

If you really want to improve a dogs immune system then raw diet will do that.


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## slimjim (29 March 2010)

This forum is crud now isn't it?  Back for the moment though.

If you don't want to go onto real food then try this site http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/

From memory most Hills dry dog foods get 1 star, as does Wagg and Bakers!  Burns and Arden Grange get 3 stars.  I've just switched to Orijen - 6 stars which is a product imported from Canada.  GJW Titmuss, Zooplus and Mutley and Mog sell it mail order, the best buy depends on quantities/order size required.  Not all UK foods are reviewed but quite a few are now.

ets I tried James Wellbeloved (also 3 star I think on this site) but the new mutt just rubbed her nose like mad. I think it was the turkey gravy coating triggering it, so I had to get a 'dry' dry dog food.


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## Limit (29 March 2010)

I have used Burns for the last nine years. My border collie looks fantastic, she has never had any other dog food, ( now nine years old) and my vet said she was in first class condition when she had her recent vacs. I first started to use it on my german shepherd bitch , she had a very itchy skin, but the change to Burns transformed her, also more relaxed.


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## KarynK (29 March 2010)

slimjim said:



			If you don't want to go onto real food then try this site http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/

...  I've just switched to Orijen - 6 stars
		
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Thanks for that link slimjim what a useful site but what a shame that most of the 6 star grain free food is not available in the UK!  There has been a big vote with your feet movement in the USA since it was exposed exactly what was in the lower grade pet food (other dead pets!) Because of that many companies in the USA at least have upped their game, so thankfully for the dogs are getting a much better deal.

Will be interested to see how you get on with Orijen they are open and honest with their ingredients and the source of their meat.  I have read their white paper and what they say makes a huge amount of sense, the only thing I do take issue with is the limiting calcium intake.   But what you are getting with their product is almost all meat with no added cheap carb bulk.   Out of interest how much would it work out per month for an average sized dog?  I wonder if you could get a similar product using human grade instead of organic if the cost would be more affordable to the average dog owner?

I can feed my two on species appropriate raw for less than £20 a month all in, but I am a realist and accept that it is not for everyone.  What I want to see is a vast improvement in UK dog food and some honesty as to exact ingredients and addatives!

I don't think they can hide ingredients in the USA like they can here, simply by having another company add it for them!  What gets me with Burns is that his advised original diet home cooked was probably 100% better than the production model. His argument that dogs &#8211; a carnivore have evolved in the last 50 years is a standard response from low end dog food producers and I find shocking.  Though his food is said to be human grade a study of the ingredients tells you that the dogs are not seeing the best bits in the food, just the cast offs!

 What I don&#8217;t like about the lower star food is the huge reliance on grain (What horse feed would you find today that is 70% Maize??) and the use of the word Natural.  Sure they are better feeds than the 1 star &#8220;value&#8221; ranges and probably help dogs suffering from those ranges but I cant help thinking that the longer this goes on the more health problems will be stored up for future generations.


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## TarrSteps (30 March 2010)

KarynK said:



			Out of interest how much would it work out per month for an average sized dog?
		
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I worked this out recently.  For a dog eating 400g/day, if you buy the 13.5kg bag of Adult it works out to be about £1.55, with the fish (Pacific?) option coming in slightly more expensive.

I've been trialing it on my two, that have been eating RAW as their main meal.  The older dog eats it, which isn't always a given even with meat, and the younger dog, who has a sensitive stomach, apparently tolerates it well.  The only thing I would say is the younger one, quite high energy anyway, went INSANE on it.  They get quite a bit of exercise (out with me all day and 2hs walking) and are usually still fairly active in the evening, but she was so wound up SHE - let alone the rest of us - seemed distressed she couldn't settle.  

I've now switched back to a main meal of meat and just a bit of kibble for a "convenience meal".  They were getting Barking Heads for this option before and I'm still undecided which way I'll go when I've finished the Orijen I've got.


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## TGM (30 March 2010)

I use the Fish and Brown Rice version on my dog and is the only feed I have found so far that doesn't upset her stomach - found it better than the JWB for her.


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## KarynK (30 March 2010)

That's really strange that she went so Hyper on it, going raw always gives a detox reaction of some sort but that was not one I am familiar with!  I know Patches had problems with the small volume that you have to feed and hers was looking for food. 

That's where the Raw wins hands down as providing you feed the bone the dogs are full up and satisfied but from what they say Orijen is largely muscle meat so perhaps thats why they don't feel so full, they are not getting true doggie fibre?.  I had some lamb ribs going a bit smelly yesterday so they had rather a lot!  Have not heard a peep out of them since then and they have not been nicking the bird food today either in fact they couldn't be bothered to chase the pigeons off!

I just think its a bot of a shame to cook all those lovely ingredients and throw all the bones away!!


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## Patches (30 March 2010)

Karynk is right. 

I've just taken Harvey off Orijen and have switched to Arden Grange puppy. The volume of Orijen daily really isn't much at all and Harvey was barking for feed constantly whilst stood over his food bowl or by the feed cupboard door. When he was tiny he was fine on it as he couldn't consume much anyway. As he got bigger and he was still only allowed 240g per day of Orijen, it just wasn't satisfying him. His meal times were over in less than 10 seconds...I kid you not! He clearly, from a nutritional point of view, didn't need any more as he was gaining weight quite rapidly, so I didn't dare increase the volume. 

Interestingly, now I've put him on Arden Grange, he is chewing less around the house and isn't anywhere near as vocal. He is also calmer....but I'm not sure if that's part of the diet or whether it's because he's content. I'm still not feeding as much as the bag of Arden Grange suggests is allowed for his age/weight but he's getting almost as much per meal as he was getting per day of the old feed. He now only barks at "feed times" and doesn't go checking his bowl every few minutes for more food. He is also less "snatchy" when I'm using treats for food reward during training. 

As I've said before I absolutely loved what Orijen stood for and would have happily kept him on it had I not experienced these issues with it. It's a shame really, as I do think nutritionally it's a far superior dog food to any other on the market.

I nearly bought him Applaws, which is another on the same trend as Orijen. However, I read a few reviews of that where they also suggest you have to feed less.

13.5kg bag of Orijen (£50 free postage) lasted me nearly 3 months. Infact I do still have some left. I was swapping Harvey over slowly, but he had the runs after eating something nasty in the field. After 24 hours on a boiled rice diet I decided it was a bit pointless weaning him back on to a mixed diet of the Orijen and Arden Grange.


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## Spot_the_Risk (30 March 2010)

We sell a lot of Burns, it's not bad, going off the track of good/bad foods though, we sell the Burns Pork & Potato to one customers whose dogs get sore eyes which is linked to an allergy to beet pulp.  The pork and potato is the only one we've found with no beet pulp in it - possibly worth a try?


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## TarrSteps (30 March 2010)

Someone I know has been using the Pork & Potato for a dog with a history of numerous intolerances, although she's finding the dog isn't super keen on it.  Mind you, he's a lurcher and might simply be waiting for something better. 

Re the Orijen making my younger dog into a raving lunatic, to be fair "raving lunatic" is her default setting when she's uncomfortable in any way (she used to run around the house when she needed to pee) so perhaps it was just her way of expressing being hungry.  The older dog barely finished his allotted amount, but then he is a picky eater at the best of times.

When I was looking around at my options, there didn't seem much to choose between Burns/JW/Wainwrights etc.  None of it is "top class" but all of it is better than many of the options.  I also looked at the Applaws, which is similar to Orijen in composition and slightly cheaper.


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