# Pricing on 'potential' advice



## RachaelJC (21 October 2018)

Hi all,

I'd like some advice on the following please:

I've been offered a 9 year old Friesian  mare who has an absolutely gorgeous temperament and manners.  The owner is selling as he hasn't got time (new job with excessive travelling) but has had the mare for six years. I know him from our village and he has offered me the sale as we sometimes chat horse at the pub for hours!  As for me, I have ponies when I was young and have worked at a racing yard, hunt yard and livery yard with stud and foaling area, and a shared but this would be my first. I've been riding since the nineties (gah,  I feel old!) 

There are a few negatives with the mare, one being that she is dilemma is obese so would need a strict diet. Secondly, she has cracks in two hooves. Toe cracks extending upwards about an inch or so (not near coronet) and about 1cm wide in a triangle shape. Farrier has a attended and filed/trimmed, but these are new cracks apparently due to the weather recently. She has never worn shoes. 

Thirdly, the mare is not very experienced for her age, not that this is a big thing as I enjoy training and have time to devote to this, as well as help from trainers and qualified riding coaches. Not that she is green like a youngster, but only having been ridden every couple of weeks and lunged intermittently the experience isn't there. She is also eligible for KFPS grading but isn't graded yet - in this condition I doubt we'd get very far!

The dilemma is that she is over Â£10k, based on 'potential' for her to go far in a chosen sport. The owner has based this price on her breeding and manner/temperament. At the moment she gets sweaty trotting around! 

I fully admit I've fallen for her, and the owner can see this. However I'd like some perspective. The weight issue and training to compete will take time but are doable, as well as hooves to grow out (may take a lot longer). For you, would these 'issues' knock the price down substantially regardless of potential,  or would you not touch with a barge pole? 

Genuinely would like different points of view and perspective as I know I fall in love with everything I see! 

Thanks


----------



## Starzaan (21 October 2018)

To put it into perspective, I paid Â£2k less than that for a 6yr old who had proven himself countless times in the showjumping arena, and had huge potential to go to the top. 

That price sounds a tad ridiculous in my opinion.


----------



## DabDab (21 October 2018)

Honestly, at 9yo having been untested in any decent level of work let alone competition, 'potential' is worth nothing. 

Her value is in her temperament and whether she's a nice ride, with probably a bit added on for being pretty and a friesian. 10k is a bit steep tbh.


----------



## be positive (21 October 2018)

RachaelJC said:



			Hi all,

I'd like some advice on the following please:

I've been offered a 9 year old Friesian  mare who has an absolutely gorgeous temperament and manners.  The owner is selling as he hasn't got time (new job with excessive travelling) but has had the mare for six years. I know him from our village and he has offered me the sale as we sometimes chat horse at the pub for hours!  As for me, I have ponies when I was young and have worked at a racing yard, hunt yard and livery yard with stud and foaling area, and a shared but this would be my first. I've been riding since the nineties (gah,  I feel old!)

There are a few negatives with the mare, one being that she is dilemma is obese so would need a strict diet. Secondly, she has cracks in two hooves. Toe cracks extending upwards about an inch or so (not near coronet) and about 1cm wide in a triangle shape. Farrier has a attended and filed/trimmed, but these are new cracks apparently due to the weather recently. She has never worn shoes.

Thirdly, the mare is not very experienced for her age, not that this is a big thing as I enjoy training and have time to devote to this, as well as help from trainers and qualified riding coaches. Not that she is green like a youngster, but only having been ridden every couple of weeks and lunged intermittently the experience isn't there. She is also eligible for KFPS grading but isn't graded yet - in this condition I doubt we'd get very far!

The dilemma is that she is over Â£10k, based on 'potential' for her to go far in a chosen sport. The owner has based this price on her breeding and manner/temperament. At the moment she gets sweaty trotting around!

I fully admit I've fallen for her, and the owner can see this. However I'd like some perspective. The weight issue and training to compete will take time but are doable, as well as hooves to grow out (may take a lot longer). For you, would these 'issues' knock the price down substantially regardless of potential,  or would you not touch with a barge pole?

Genuinely would like different points of view and perspective as I know I fall in love with everything I see!

Thanks
		
Click to expand...


I think he is in cloud cuckoo land regarding her value, it is not a breed I know much about but an unproven, ungraded mare of any breed is not going to command such a high price based on "potential" when she is already nearly 10 and has been left to get fat out in a field, at half the price she would still be an expensive gamble as to whether she will even stand up to some decent work.

I would forget the fact he has "offered" her to you, that sounds as if he is doing you a favour rather than trying for an easy sale, and decide firstly whether you actually want a horse now with all it entails, secondly whether you would buy this type/ breed/ greenesss, thirdly what you would expect to spend on something if you do want one and then make your mind up, personally I would wait until he has tried and failed to get his price and go back at a later date with a very low offer to take her off his hands if I wanted her but I would not really want a horse of that age to bring on..


----------



## RachaelJC (21 October 2018)

Thank you, all very good advice and echoes what my logical brain has been telling me. I'd like something I can have fun with now, rather than wait.


----------



## be positive (21 October 2018)

I just wanted to add/ ask what "chosen sport" is she likely to go far in? Friesians are not really known as competition horses and being her age she is so far behind she has 2 disadvantages before she even starts, to my mind they are pleasure horses more than anything else.


----------



## DabDab (21 October 2018)

be positive said:



			I just wanted to add/ ask what "chosen sport" is she likely to go far in? Friesians are not really known as competition horses and being her age she is so far behind she has 2 disadvantages before she even starts, to my mind they are pleasure horses more than anything else.
		
Click to expand...

Yes I agree. There are quite a few people who do dressage on them, but they are not easy horses to go and do well at dressage on as largely a leisure rider.


----------



## RachaelJC (21 October 2018)

be positive said:



			I just wanted to add/ ask what "chosen sport" is she likely to go far in? Friesians are not really known as competition horses and being her age she is so far behind she has 2 disadvantages before she even starts, to my mind they are pleasure horses more than anything else.
		
Click to expand...


I would be looking to do dressage, ridden and in hand. Nothing massively competitive but would be nice to get to medium level or so. 

Thanks to eery one for all of this advice. It's bringing my logic back!


----------



## Apercrumbie (21 October 2018)

Even at half that figure I would say it's bonkers. Sorry OP - you may get lucky in that if he tries to sell her for that on the open market, he will probably struggle and may see sense.


----------



## ester (21 October 2018)

*falls off chair ..... 

HOW MUCH!?!

Also as an aside because she hasn't done much you have no idea if she will stand up to the work you would want to do with her. 

I'd tell him to crack on and advertise her and see how much interest he gets at the start of winter


----------



## Leo Walker (21 October 2018)

Actually I think he might get it. Friesans are a very niche category. Exactly the sort of fairy tale looking horse that novice middle aged ladies with more money than sense go for. If she is genuinely quiet and a good hack alone and can be picked up and put down, I think there will be someone out that prepared to pay that. I dont think its right, but that doesnt mean it wont happen.


----------



## alainax (21 October 2018)

From my experience, A decent graded (first/2nd premie) KFPS Friesian, with great manners, hacks alone, and basic training can easily go for Â£7k+. With proper training ie consistent medium level Â£12-15k+. Does she have a KFPS passport?

You can pick up unregistered ones of dubious parentage for a fraction of that. Less than 5k. There are well bred unregistered ones though who are worth much more, so you really would need to know what the breeding is.

If she is properly registered, sound, healthy, great manners, good confirmation, hacks alone, basic schooling ( ie walk trot canters well, basic laterals) Â£7k is not far off what you would pay for any good looking decent horse with those attributes.

I also disagree with the comment section that they are not easy to do dressage on, there are many of them these days bred along dressage lines, and find many of the higher movements very easy compared to other breeds which may struggle. Quite a of them out there doing Grand Prix! 

There are of course bad examples in any breed who donâ€™t have the natural ability or intelligence.


----------



## ester (21 October 2018)

Yes I would think if she were graded that would be a different market again.


----------



## Midlifecrisis (21 October 2018)

A beautiful 10yr old registered mare with proven dressage scores went for 5k recently so 10k is phenomenally over the top. Let him put her on open market and when he doesnâ€™t sell offer a price you are comfortable with.


----------



## Theocat (21 October 2018)

If my main goal was to get to Medium, I wouldn't buy a Fresian. Of course they *can*, but there are easier routes- and if you have a budget of 10k, personally I'd invest the cash in something with boring or unknown breeding and a decent track record, rather than looks with nothing to back it up.


----------



## bonny (21 October 2018)

I think the owner has seen you coming, thatâ€™s a crazy price


----------



## Puzzled (21 October 2018)

Let him advertise her...I doubt sheâ€™ll sell and then make him an offer youâ€™re comfortable with.


----------



## FestiveFuzz (21 October 2018)

That price is bonkers! I certainly wouldn't be paying that for an unknown quantity, especially one that doesn't sound like it's ever been in full work and therefore may not stand up to the job in hand.


----------



## RachaelJC (21 October 2018)

Thanks to all of you. I'm not out for any particular breed or looks, so registration with KFPS or any other isn't important to me. What is important is temperament, and having the ability to work with now. 

Whilst this mare has the temperament (from what I've seen), she's too inexperienced.  I get that breeding will add a bit of value to her, but if I ever paid Â£10k I'd expect a talented horse.

I know he feels pretty heartbroken about letting her go, so maybe that's also playing a part in the cost. But either way I won't be taking her on.

Thanks!


----------



## SpringArising (22 October 2018)

HOW BLOODY MUCH! was my initial reaction. That price is absolutely ridiculous for what she is.


----------



## Nasicus (22 October 2018)

10k for a fat, unproven, green horse with questionable hooves? He's having a laugh!


----------



## ihatework (22 October 2018)

Offer him 2k then walk away.
He is having a laugh.


----------



## oldjumper (23 October 2018)

RachaelJC said:



			Hi all,

I'd like some advice on the following please:

I've been offered a 9 year old Friesian  mare who has an absolutely gorgeous temperament and manners.  The owner is selling as he hasn't got time (new job with excessive travelling) but has had the mare for six years. I know him from our village and he has offered me the sale as we sometimes chat horse at the pub for hours!  As for me, I have ponies when I was young and have worked at a racing yard, hunt yard and livery yard with stud and foaling area, and a shared but this would be my first. I've been riding since the nineties (gah,  I feel old!)

There are a few negatives with the mare, one being that she is dilemma is obese so would need a strict diet. Secondly, she has cracks in two hooves. Toe cracks extending upwards about an inch or so (not near coronet) and about 1cm wide in a triangle shape. Farrier has a attended and filed/trimmed, but these are new cracks apparently due to the weather recently. She has never worn shoes.

Thirdly, the mare is not very experienced for her age, not that this is a big thing as I enjoy training and have time to devote to this, as well as help from trainers and qualified riding coaches. Not that she is green like a youngster, but only having been ridden every couple of weeks and lunged intermittently the experience isn't there. She is also eligible for KFPS grading but isn't graded yet - in this condition I doubt we'd get very far!

The dilemma is that she is over Â£10k, based on 'potential' for her to go far in a chosen sport. The owner has based this price on her breeding and manner/temperament. At the moment she gets sweaty trotting around!

I fully admit I've fallen for her, and the owner can see this. However I'd like some perspective. The weight issue and training to compete will take time but are doable, as well as hooves to grow out (may take a lot longer). For you, would these 'issues' knock the price down substantially regardless of potential,  or would you not touch with a barge pole?

Genuinely would like different points of view and perspective as I know I fall in love with everything I see!

Thanks
		
Click to expand...

2.5k tops!
2 bits of advice: 1. Never, ever buy a horse in the pub! 2. 'Potential' is priceless (worth nothing).


----------



## Summit (10 November 2018)

I choked on my coffee when I read how much he wanted


----------



## TGM (10 November 2018)

I have a friend who breeds Friesians and has trouble even loaning out mares that sound similar to the one you are looking at, let alone selling them!  The trouble is, if she is not in regular work, you don't know whether she is actually sound enough for what you want her for.  You haven't really given much detail about what she is like to ride - have you actually ridden her at all or seen her ridden?  Do you know if she hacks out alone safely and confidently?  Is she good in all traffic?  Can she walk, trot and canter in an arena in a calm and rhythmic manner on both reins, in a fairly relaxed outline?  All those things will make a big difference to her value.


----------



## Gloi (11 November 2018)

I think they are having a laugh. Be very careful as well buying a Friesian. There are a lot about with health and/or temperament problems.


----------



## Pearlsasinger (11 November 2018)

It is not easy to get Friesians graded, I know someone who is involved in the process, which is rigorous, so it isn't a given that she could grade.  The fact hat she isn't makes me wonder if she has been rejected previously.
If you really want a Friesian, have a look on DD, you will find much more realistic prices!


----------



## conniegirl (11 November 2018)

At 9 she isnt potential anything!
At 10k he is off his rocker! Id pay about Â£1.5k for it tops and that would be if it passed a 5stage.
It isnt graded and tbh is unlikely to do well at grading given requirements so treat her as a very pretty horse of unknown breeding


----------



## MotherOfChickens (11 November 2018)

have you ridden her? I'm not sure I can give an unbiased view as I've only ridden three in my life and they were all akin to riding square wheeled bicycles in the comfort stakes but they might not be representative.  
does she hack and travel ok? when you say obese are you talking crest and fat pads that will effect her as she gets older? all these things detract from her price which would sort at Â£2K as far as I'd be concerned.
She's 9 and pretty green so while she might have the potential to be a nice horse, to talk about competitive potential and that sort of buying price when not even registered is daft. If she vets ok and is the horse of your dreams then what you pay is up to you really.


----------



## jj_87 (22 November 2018)

Â£10k are is she made of gold? Walk away, I wouldn't pay a penny over Â£1800, the hooves alone are enough for me to walk.


----------



## Goldenstar (24 November 2018)

I would never buy an obese horse again however good and proven it was .
Bad feet , obese heavens what else wrong and at nine a horse has completely  missed the boat potential wise .
Not easy dressage horses .
If you like her that counts for a lot offer him 2k and donâ€™t budge .


----------



## Hormonal Filly (26 November 2018)

10k?! Thats crazy. She isn't worth over a few thousand (at most!) with those issues, if she was proven in something say showing, dressage completely different but not proven in anything and those issues I can't see him getting that money.

Maybe hes given you a stupid price as he knows you love her? Try and put your head in front of your heart with this one, 10k is a hell of a lot of money.


----------



## Orangehorse (26 November 2018)

Not at that price.  Not if you know you want to do competitions.  If you had a stable full of horses, facilities, time, etc. then it might be worth a gamble, at the right price which isn't Â£10,000.  I know a very nice Friesian that is doing Grand Prix but I think he was a problem child and the rider gave him a home just to see what he could do, and it turned out well.  But it might not have and she had the time and facilities and the experience to bring him on.


----------

