# Update, for those who are interested



## Queenbee (4 October 2011)

Hello all  (<<<<a few smiley faces to soften you up)

OK so ebony update, will keep it short and sweet but have had a few PMs enquiring about foal/no foal yet so thought I would update her progress:

So, no foal yet, but there have been some changes: those that I have noticed are as follows.
More narkiness with neighbours at feed time
Taking herself to the other end of the field for some 'peace' more often instead of chatting to her mate over the fence.
Started biting at her flank, just where the rib cage has been poking out occasionally
Lots more pawing at her tummy, tail swishing and general restlessness at dinner time
still full of beans and cantering over for dinner (almost more enthusiastically)
very very chilled still in the stable (quite obviously the mare has been taken over by aliens)
No change in udder as yet
Ribs are noticeable... just, but they are there (see one of the recent side picture)
I am sure that her belly has started to change shape and drop.  (see recent picture)
Also, the muscle in her undercarriage is very defined running parallel to her rib cage, don't know if this is relevant, if anyone can enlighten me please feel free 

Well, here it is:  a recent run down of comparison pictures, thinking we are at about 330 days now:

August 5t
















11 th sept






tonight:






anyway:  there it is... the update as of tonight. For those who wanted them, and for those who fancy a good 'airing of views'


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## Megibo (4 October 2011)

wow, that's a marked difference. she could well be with foal!


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## honey-bees (4 October 2011)

Was going to say she looks pregnant!


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## fidleyspromise (4 October 2011)

I have no idea  but have been following her progress.

All the best, either way x


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## Jesstickle (4 October 2011)

She really does look preggers. I bet she'll have a gorgeous foal if she does drop one. She is lovely!

ETA: did you have a falling out before or something? I must have missed it if you did cos I iz confoosed about the 'airing of views  '


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## quirky (4 October 2011)

You sure she's not got a secret route into the feed room .

There is definitely a change in those photos.

I'm excited for you .


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## Queenbee (4 October 2011)

I am glad that someone else think there is a difference, it is so hard to tell when you see them every day.  Thats one of the reasons I have taken pictures.  I am upping her forage now since there is a shape change and her ribs are just visible, she is on a broodmare/youngstock supplement but I was wondering about 'hard feed' ben has forage (alfalfa) and baileys outshine, so I have a huge sack of that.  I am wary of putting her on a broodmare mix as she is already being supplemented, does anyone have any views on whether outshine, alfalfa, plenty of grass and adlib hay and her supplement would be ok or whether I should go out and buy something else mix wise.


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## Hells Bells (4 October 2011)

Definitely looks like there's been a difference!!
If there is a lil one, will you keep it?


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## Sheep (4 October 2011)

I can see quite a difference too.

Good luck whatever happens. If there is a baby, look forward to the pics. If there's not, I look forward to seeing her slimline shape next spring!


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## Ibblebibble (4 October 2011)

ohhhh there's definitely a change in shape there  If she's not in foal then thats an almighty fart she's storing up


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## Queenbee (4 October 2011)

jesstickle said:



			She really does look preggers. I bet she'll have a gorgeous foal if she does drop one. She is lovely!

ETA: did you have a falling out before or something? I must have missed it if you did cos I iz confoosed about the 'airing of views  '
		
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Hi,

No, no falling out, but there was a split in opinions, because it wasn't planned, it was post gelding, but not post enough! and because I just letting nature take its course and had spoken to my vet (who knows her) but not had her examine to confirm/or not.  Because to my eye she was perfectly fit and healthy and happy in herself.  So, as people are want to do they aired their views, and I understand them all, I suppose I mentioned it because I am happy for any comments, because this is after all a forum, everyone has different horses, different backgrounds, experiences and opinions.  Although I must say, I have been quite overwhelmed with the interest in the story and the pms for up dates  

Quirky, thank you hun and yes, there is a secret route to the feed room, but unfortunately for her, only the little ponies have found it and the feed bins all have screw on lids


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## Jesstickle (4 October 2011)

qb, that makes sense. We are an opinionated bunch after all. I assume although not planned you wouldn't mind a new addition. Who's the daddy? I'm excited for you!


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## SusieT (4 October 2011)

has she been wormed recently?


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## brown tack (4 October 2011)

There is a big change there. You may have a foalie soon enough me thinks. 
Have you any idea what's she's been with?


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## MrsHutt (4 October 2011)

Well I'm no expert by any means, but if she's _not_ she needs to cut out the chips!


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## RolyPolyPony (4 October 2011)

Firstly i think she is gorgeous!  I definitly think that she looks like she is pregnant, especially the front on picture!  She's certainly going to have a beautiful foal!


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## Hells Bells (4 October 2011)

Also, meant to say- i know i said it in your other posts, but your boy is just gorgeous!! (Mare is lovely too obv) But his colourings are so lovely!


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## Queenbee (4 October 2011)

JT: this would be him, my baby benny  who is turning into a fantastic little man:

He is 26 months now, 15.2 and a bit, 50%tb, 25%connie jury still out on last 25% but should have piccys of his sire this evening.  










His Grandsire is Appledore marengo, by Charlton Checkmate
http://www.shovernstud.co.uk/breeding/breeding.html

And here is ebony... all slimline and in action





















I know, MAJOR photo overload... but who could resist


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## Queenbee (4 October 2011)

SusieT said:



			has she been wormed recently?
		
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yes susie she has, infact I have been worming her as if she was pregnant just in case


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## Jesstickle (4 October 2011)

Well, it may not be a planned baby but it'll certainly be a nice baby. Accidents happen sometimes don't they? It could have been worse. Dad could have been a shetland!


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## Queenbee (4 October 2011)

gg1986 said:



			Also, meant to say- i know i said it in your other posts, but your boy is just gorgeous!! (Mare is lovely too obv) But his colourings are so lovely!
		
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Thank you GG, I have put a link to his grandsire and great grandsire on here.  Also there is an fill for sale by the people that I got him from, not the same breeding but fairly similar markings, but she doesn't have that symmetrical 'clowns smile'


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## jhoward (4 October 2011)

please just get her scanned/examined/tested the suspence is killing me! if she doesnt pop a sprog its going to be like some sod cancelling christmas!


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## Queenbee (4 October 2011)

jesstickle said:



			Well, it may not be a planned baby but it'll certainly be a nice baby. Accidents happen sometimes don't they? It could have been worse. Dad could have been a shetland!
		
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PMSL... the one type of horse/pony I have never been that fond of!  Yes, I feel very very blessed to have 2 fantastic horses and now perhaps a 3rd.


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## MiCsarah (4 October 2011)

jhoward said:



			please just get her scanned/examined/tested the suspence is killing me! if she doesnt pop a sprog its going to be like some sod cancelling christmas!

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Im also desperate to know!!!


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## Fools Motto (4 October 2011)

jhoward said:



			please just get her scanned/examined/tested the suspence is killing me! if she doesnt pop a sprog its going to be like some sod cancelling christmas!

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Ditto this. I've been quietly following the story, and hoping to see an update. Her shape now would indicate a foaly, but my head is saying as her 'boobs' havn't changed and she ran with your boy just after he was gelded the chances of said foaly is slightly slim, obviously not impossible though!
Good luck, what ever happens, but I for one, want every update going!!


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## Queenbee (4 October 2011)

queenbee said:



			I am upping her forage now since there is a shape change and her ribs are just visible, she is on a broodmare/youngstock supplement but I was wondering about 'hard feed' ben has forage (alfalfa) and baileys outshine, so I have a huge sack of that.  I am wary of putting her on a broodmare mix as she is already being supplemented, does anyone have any views on whether outshine, alfalfa, plenty of grass and adlib hay and her supplement would be ok or whether I should go out and buy something else mix wise.
		
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Does anyone have any suggestions re: feed, weight etc I don't want her to get too 'ribby'


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## Queenbee (4 October 2011)

cool mix said:



			Ditto this. I've been quietly following the story, and hoping to see an update. Her shape now would indicate a foaly, but my head is saying as her 'boobs' havn't changed and she ran with your boy just after he was gelded the chances of said foaly is slightly slim, obviously not impossible though!
Good luck, what ever happens, but I for one, want every update going!!
		
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I know exactly what you are saying!  However, the more I read about other people accounts the more varied it becomes some bag up waaaay in advance others days, some not till after foaling.

If she is, then knowing her she will be an exception to the rule


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## FionaM12 (4 October 2011)

Ooo I love this story! 

As I remember from your previous posts, you know pretty accurately when the possible conception would have taken place. So, when is it due if it exists, if you see what I mean?

I've confused myself with that last sentence....


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## Queenbee (4 October 2011)

FionaM12 said:



			Ooo I love this story! 

As I remember from your previous posts, you know pretty accurately when the possible conception would have taken place. So, when is it due if it exists, if you see what I mean?

I've confused myself with that last sentence....
		
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bless you, I not confused I see what your asking LOL  Based on an average of 343 days (going by yellowhouseranch.com foaling calculator)  we are looking at the 16th of october, they went in together the weekend of the 5th of nov last year, I am working from a date of the 7th


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## FionaM12 (4 October 2011)

queenbee said:



			bless you, I not confused I see what your asking LOL  Based on an average of 343 days (going by yellowhouseranch.com foaling calculator)  we are looking at the 16th of october, they went in together the weekend of the 5th of nov last year, I am working from a date of the 7th
		
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Oh wow! That soon? How exciting. I bet you're on pins every time you go to see her!

I've only personally been involved with one foaling (another 'accident'). It was about 1973, my friend and I (both teenagers) were helping look after this pregnant pony mare, with the aid of a library book on breeding horses which we carried about reading as we went.  We watched her like hawks, night and day but still missed the event. 

I'll never forget the excitement one morning as I made my way across the field and could just make out this little bundle at that mare's feet.


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## Queenbee (4 October 2011)

FionaM12 said:



			Oh wow! That soon? How exciting. I bet you're on pins every time you go to see her!

I've only personally been involved with one foaling (another 'accident'). It was about 1973, my friend and I (both teenagers) were helping look after this pregnant pony mare, with the aid of a library book on breeding horses which we carried about reading as we went.  We watched her like hawks, night and day but still missed the event. 

I'll never forget the excitement one morning as I made my way across the field and could just make out this little bundle at that mare's feet.
		
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I haven't been majorly involved in it, I did work at an arab stud for a season, and remember the little bundles, they were fantastic to watch develop, we had cctv rigged up and watched this one mare all night she was so restless we knew it would happen!  Come the morning... nothing, I went out and got the preprepared feeds put them in the wheelbarrow (only six of them) went out to do the rounds and there was the foal in the stable!  I also rescued 3 young ponies, one had been running with a stallion, we watched her loads, then one day saw the complete unevenness in her sides and knew, the next day I got up and went to work, came home and the family dog was lying in the field, apparently she had been there all day, she was with the aborted foal   I broke my heart for the mare she had had such a hard start. I think to be honest that years ago, I would have been far far more stressy about it, but I am so much more mellow these days, it suits my horses, and ebony is so laid back that I am just going with it... she is obviously happy with where she is and whatever is going on.

Will be disenfecting the stable again tomorrow


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## **Vanner** (4 October 2011)

Oh so exciting


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## LisW (4 October 2011)

Had been hoping for an update. Please keep them coming!


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## Queenbee (5 October 2011)

Morning all,

No further update this morning, just wanted to say thank you all for your lovely replies and interest.  Really glad your enjoying the journey with Ebs and I


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## Ibblebibble (5 October 2011)

lol , you do know that the week of the 16th we'll going to be like a bunch of kids on a car journey?  'is it there yet?...................is it there yet?'


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## Queenbee (5 October 2011)

Ibblebibble said:



			lol , you do know that the week of the 16th we'll going to be like a bunch of kids on a car journey?  'is it there yet?...................is it there yet?'

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PMSL!  Yes, I am sure you will, I have to empty my PMs ready for the onslaught!  I actually can't believe how relaxed I am about it...  I used to be such a stress head, but 'if she is' pregnant, I just know she is going to be fantastic as a mum.  If not, I think I need to get a sharp stick and puncture her LOL!   I feel a bit of a meanie, all the other horses have rugs on now at night except her, and ben, I don't want to rug one without the other and I can't rug her, just in case.  However, she is well warm enough.  Work is being really good and is fine with the fact that I will be taking the day she foals off at very short notice, and I have a good load of annual leave stacked up so that I can take a good week or two off early on.  I can't wait to get up there every day just to see if there are any changes, and have taken more pictures of her in these last few months than in the last 10 years I have owned her!


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## Wagtail (5 October 2011)

So exciting for you! I have a foal due next April, but really wish I had put my retired mare in foal last year, especially now I have another horse I may be forced to retire. My lovely old mare will be eighteen next year though and I just couldn't risk it with her never having a foal before.


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## binkymerlin (5 October 2011)

sorry missed the previous story and yes i am going to be the one to say..... why oh why haven't you had a vet look at her? what if its twins? have you delt with a mare in foal before? you are asking a forum to guess if she is in foal? seriously get a vet out. for your mares sake :-/


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## FionaM12 (5 October 2011)

binkymerlin said:



			sorry missed the previous story and yes i am going to be the one to say..... why oh why haven't you had a vet look at her? what if its twins? have you delt with a mare in foal before? you are asking a forum to guess if she is in foal? seriously get a vet out. for your mares sake :-/
		
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All this was explained on previous post. The OP's vet friend (a horse breeder) advised her she's fine dealing with it as she is. No, she's not asking us to tell her if it's in foal, just inviting us to share the story.


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## Queenbee (5 October 2011)

binkymerlin said:



			sorry missed the previous story and yes i am going to be the one to say..... why oh why haven't you had a vet look at her? what if its twins? have you delt with a mare in foal before? you are asking a forum to guess if she is in foal? seriously get a vet out. for your mares sake :-/
		
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Binky, thank you for your concern, for replies to all your queries please refer to my prior thread   I believe I anwered all of those and more there  


http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=483179

Everybody does things differently, my mare is perfectly fine, If I was in any way worried about her wellbeing I would get the vet out.  As for whether I have dealt with mares in foal before, then I do believe I covered that in an earlier post in this thread, and as for experience I believe I am more than covered, with myself, the livery yard owner, OH and the vet down the road.  


I know this mare, has been mine for 10 years, I know all her little quirks and mannerisms, believe me when I say she is absolutely fine.  I may not be handling this as others would chose to, but I am behaving in a way that suits me and my mare, furthermore she is being a lot better cared for than many of the broodmares out there.


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## Queenbee (5 October 2011)

FionaM12 said:



			All this was explained on previous post. The OP's vet friend (a horse breeder) advised her she's fine dealing with it as she is. No, she's not asking us to tell her if it's in foal, just inviting us to share the story.
		
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F-12 I love you  Can you be my bodyguard?  Whenever someone says anything remotely negative you just slap 'em down for me  

If I could package you and sell you, I would make a fortune.


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## SeasonalSituation (5 October 2011)

I have been one of those to say why have you not had the vet out before? But I am still interested in the journey  

And I cannot wait until the 16th so we can all hopefully welcome the new one!


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## HuntingB (5 October 2011)

Eeeeee, it looks like there may well be a foalie in there!
Sending you lots of luck and good wishes!x


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## Hells Bells (5 October 2011)

this is going to be a long 11 days!! Its not even my mare and im excited!!


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## Cortez (5 October 2011)

Of course you do all know that the putative foal is not GUARENTEED to arrive exactly on that date, don't you?


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## Hells Bells (5 October 2011)

haha yes, fully aware of this and the fact it may not be a foal, but its a lovely story!


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## FionaM12 (5 October 2011)

queenbee said:



			F-12 I love you  Can you be my bodyguard?  Whenever someone says anything remotely negative you just slap 'em down for me  

If I could package you and sell you, I would make a fortune. 

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 I can get a bit indignant sometimes I'm afraid. I know people are entitled to their opinion, but they could at least read the answers you've already given!

Most people are only trying to help by giving what they believe is good advice, I know, but a few on the previous thread went a little OTT and anyone would think this is a case of horse cruelty/neglect!

If yours was one of the posts which starts "Advice please..." or "what do you think I should do..." (as mine aften do!) it would be different.


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## Spudlet (5 October 2011)

Cortez said:



			Of course you do all know that the putative foal is not GUARENTEED to arrive exactly on that date, don't you?
		
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Oh yes it is, because that's my birthday and I DEMAND A BIRTHDAY FOAL

Please do let Ebony know so she can deliver on time. No need to giftwrap


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## china (5 October 2011)

i am soo glad to see these photos because it might make all of the posters on the last thread think twice about what they said :~) i will eat my hat if she doesnt drop something! 

To be fair, if she was carrying twins, there isnt much you could do about it, unless it was planned and the first scan showed twins and it could be pinched, but as you didnt plan it. there isnt much you could do, apart from what you are already doing :~)


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## Enfys (5 October 2011)

queenbee said:



			Binky, thank you for your concern, for replies to all your queries please refer to my prior thread   I believe I anwered all of those and more there  


http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=483179

Everybody does things differently, my mare is perfectly fine, If I was in any way worried about her wellbeing I would get the vet out.  As for whether I have dealt with mares in foal before, then I do believe I covered that in an earlier post in this thread, and as for experience I believe I am more than covered, with myself, the livery yard owner, OH and the vet down the road.  


I know this mare, has been mine for 10 years, I know all her little quirks and mannerisms, believe me when I say she is absolutely fine.  *I may not be handling this as others would chose to, but I am behaving in a way that suits me and my mare, *furthermore she is being a lot better cared for than many of the broodmares out there. 



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Good for you. 

If she does have a foal then I hope all goes smoothly for you all, if not, then, well, you'll know in a bit one way or another. Best of Luck to you


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## Enfys (5 October 2011)

binkymerlin said:



			sorry missed the previous story and yes i am going to be the one to say..... why oh why haven't you had a vet look at her? what if its twins? have you delt with a mare in foal before? you are asking a forum to guess if she is in foal? seriously get a vet out. for your mares sake :-/
		
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I believe the Vet knows the situation  

*What if it is twins?* Too late to do a darn thing about it now really except be prepared and by all accounts all the p's have been attended to. Scanning is not infallible, I lost full term twins, and almost the mare (with a Vet in attendance) several years ago and she _was_ scanned at the appropriate dates, it happens, you just kick on and cope with the cards you are dealt with.

Loads of people are first time breeders, it doesn't make for a bad horse owner, at some stage or another we all begin with a first foal/puppy/kitten/child after all.


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## Queenbee (5 October 2011)

Cortez said:



			Of course you do all know that the putative foal is not GUARENTEED to arrive exactly on that date, don't you?
		
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  yeeeeees 





FionaM12 said:



 I can get a bit indignant sometimes I'm afraid. I know people are entitled to their opinion, but they could at least read the answers you've already given!

Most people are only trying to help by giving what they believe is good advice, I know, but a few on the previous thread went a little OTT and anyone would think this is a case of horse cruelty/neglect!

If yours was one of the posts which starts "Advice please..." or "what do you think I should do..." (as mine aften do!) it would be different.
		
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I completely agree with you, I don't mind hearing the views and opinions of others because I have complete confidence in how i am handling things, bearing in mind the mare, myself and the circumstances, and I don't need to defend myself because I have you to get indignant for me and ebony 



Enfys said:



			Good for you. 

If she does have a foal then I hope all goes smoothly for you all, if not, then, well, you'll know in a bit one way or another. Best of Luck to you 

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Thank you 

i am soo glad to see these photos because it might make all of the posters on the last thread think twice about what they said :~) i will eat my hat if she doesnt drop something! 

To be fair, if she was carrying twins, there isnt much you could do about it, unless it was planned and the first scan showed twins and it could be pinched, but as you didnt plan it. there isnt much you could do, apart from what you are already doing :~) 

My thoughts exactly re: twins, If she's not in foal I could send you my hat to eat too, if you want it? 

... god, my face is getting achey from all this grinning 

off to yard now to see my (was going to say babies, but that takes on a whole new meaning now lol!) girl and boy, armed with camera.

Stay tuned


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## MrVelvet (5 October 2011)

I've been secretly reading these posts  I'm quite excited!!I hope there is a little foalie  RE feed - just see how she goes, if shes gets skinnier.. feed abit more! don't worry! I used to work at a stud and the mares got a bucket of stud mix a day - your supplementing so I'm sure she'll be fine! RE rugging - don't be soft 

No, this is probably not the way I would do it.. but, Your mare is clearly very looked after and obviously wants for nothing! you have covered every eventuality! accidents happen, even if she is not in foal... she just needs to go to fat class a few times and all will be fine! 

I wish you and lovely mare all the best, and look forward to updates and maybe... cute foalie pics?!?  give Ebony some big scratches from us! and tell her to get a move on  xxx


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## binkymerlin (5 October 2011)

queenbee said:



			F-12 I love you  Can you be my bodyguard?  Whenever someone says anything remotely negative you just slap 'em down for me  

If I could package you and sell you, I would make a fortune. 

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ooooooohhhhh errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr soz ard! lol as i said MISSED THE PREVIOUS POST! i do hope she is ok tho and has a speedy uncomplicated birth. and well if she isnt in foal.... what else could it be? any time soon eh


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## Queenbee (5 October 2011)

MrVelvet said:



			I've been secretly reading these posts  I'm quite excited!!I hope there is a little foalie  RE feed - just see how she goes, if shes gets skinnier.. feed abit more! don't worry! I used to work at a stud and the mares got a bucket of stud mix a day - your supplementing so I'm sure she'll be fine! RE rugging - don't be soft 

No, this is probably not the way I would do it.. but, Your mare is clearly very looked after and obviously wants for nothing! you have covered every eventuality! accidents happen, even if she is not in foal... she just needs to go to fat class a few times and all will be fine! 

I wish you and lovely mare all the best, and look forward to updates and maybe... cute foalie pics?!?  give Ebony some big scratches from us! and tell her to get a move on  xxx
		
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Well, I did go soft... ish!  I got up there and it was bucketing it down, so they came into the stables for a bit of respite and dinner, have given her a little bit more feed than normal tonight, and they both had a cake of hay each while they dried off before they went out again but I couldn't do it, they looked so snuggly and warm in their stables and within a short time had wolfed most of their hay down, so I pulled their beds down and gave them a load more hay and water, lots of cuddles and left them in.  Its official, I am now a softie, I am always the last to rug and the last to bring in, I am now the first on the yard to bring my horses in, but they didn't seem to mind  earlier rise tomorrow though... darn it!


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## Queenbee (5 October 2011)

snuggle bunnies:

as you can see, despite the 'ad lib' hay in her stable, she prefers to check out the bales in the stable next door LOL! (love the shiney eye)











and here is benny... obviously hating being in the warm and dry 







I am sooo soft its embarrasing me


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## FionaM12 (5 October 2011)

You'll regret that softness early tomorrow morning! Off to bed with you...

Goodnight!


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## leflynn (6 October 2011)

I've only just found this story and I'm hooked, I really want to find a pic of a lovely little foalie thats popped out soon  Good luck and I don't blame you for being soft (I am  )


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## Queenbee (7 October 2011)

Update on update of update 

Still no foalie but vulva has started to relax, she has had her food upped, I have NEVER before fed a horse enough to fill a tyre feed bowl  but she loved it , she wasn't as fractious with her tummy this night as she has been the last couple of nights.  Any way here are a few pics,  main changes are that the back end seems to be starting to sink a bit and the vulva is relaxing but not pinking up inside yet.  Still no bagging up though.

you  can see the shadow on the right hand side of her tail where she is starting to sink











No bagging, I confess, I am a bit worrisome about this, I know it may not happen until she drops, but I would rather see it now!





Couple of side views, definate change although it seems more noticable on one side than on  the other, it almost seems to lower more when she came in from the field, although thats probably just my imagination lol 










Definate change here, although  not sure if I have before pics, will have to look, but she is definately way more relaxed






She took a wee while I was there, although it was weird, she will usually take ages with it and while she holds her tail up it is still pointing away from her, this time it was short and her tail came completely up and rested over her rump (if you get what I mean?)  Is this normal?  Does it mean anything?  Having a bit of a google about it but if anyone can comment on this Id appreciate it 

Going up again in a couple of hours  YO is checking on her till then.


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## quirky (7 October 2011)

Ooh Qb, how exciting .

I do hope all goes well and you don't have too many sleepless nights!!


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## MrVelvet (7 October 2011)

queenbee said:



			Going up again in a couple of hours  YO is checking on her till then.
		
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and give her a good poke and tell her to get a move on!!  although if 'foaly' is anything like mine.. it will give you weeks of sleepless nights and then be born in the paddock when noones looking


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## Queenbee (7 October 2011)

MrVelvet said:



			and give her a good poke and tell her to get a move on!!  although if 'foaly' is anything like mine.. it will give you weeks of sleepless nights and then be born in the paddock when noones looking 

Click to expand...

Yes  I bet I will be taking IV coffee soon!   She was so so chilled and loving this evening, she has been a lot recently, but its almost like she is on valium   She is still refusing to eat the hay I have put on the ground for her and is happily munching off her 'all you can eat buffet' in the stable next door!  I have opened a bale up and taken away the twine, I think she prefers it, because she can eat while looking out over the stable door


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## JenHunt (7 October 2011)

very exciting! hope it all goes well!

and FWIW - I don't think I'd have dealt with it any differently to you if I'd been in the same situation.


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## Queenbee (7 October 2011)

JenHunt said:



			very exciting! hope it all goes well!

and FWIW - I don't think I'd have dealt with it any differently to you if I'd been in the same situation.
		
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Cheers hun, I actually can't quite believe whats happening.  I was saying to my friend the other day, that ebony has given me everything I could possibly ever want from a horse, she has the biggest heart, I could never have asked for or expected more, then she goes and adds this to the mix too.  Words just fail me


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## Kadastorm (7 October 2011)

From my experience, pretty sure that is a foaly waiting to pop out. Dont worry about not bagging up yet, our last one didnt until very late. 
Keep updating, only just seen this thread and im excited! xx


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## Kaylum (7 October 2011)

oh yes I am excited too.


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## PingPongPony (7 October 2011)

How exciting!!! It'd be great if foal came on the 16th, it's my birthday  Keep us updated with pictures  And just wanted to say, well done on being soooooo relaxed and calm about it, tbh i really admire you for letting your horse and nature just get on with it, afterall, in the wild they manage just fine


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## Queenbee (7 October 2011)

shiny-ISH said:



			How exciting!!! It'd be great if foal came on the 16th, it's my birthday  Keep us updated with pictures  And just wanted to say, well done on being soooooo relaxed and calm about it, tbh i really admire you for letting your horse and nature just get on with it, afterall, in the wild they manage just fine 

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Shiny, I have already had discussions with ebony about this over a cup of coffee and a manger of hay, we have gone over how the 16th is a very important day for you and how it would be really nice if she could plait her legs until that day and then heave like buggery to ensure it comes out on THAT VERY DAY, she says she will try to oblige  although I must warn you that there is also a little girl who would like her to keep a hold on it until her birthday... in december


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## crellow4 (7 October 2011)

My mare foaled at 356 days, so IF your girl is in foal you could have quite a wait yet!!! I'm on the fence, can't decide if she's just looking porky or cooking up a surprise. Best of luck x


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## Tinypony (7 October 2011)

I wondered how you were getting on.  Good luck Ebony!


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## FionaM12 (7 October 2011)

Can you have a word with Ebony please? I'm on two sleep-in shifts (no internet at work) so I'd really appreciate it if she could hold on until the next few days are over.....


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## cronkmooar (8 October 2011)

I have had one foal so am by no means an expert but with mine I would mention the following:

Mare was a maiden and went two weeks over

There was no bag at 10pm - 6am when checked I had a foal and mare had bagged up - so don't get hung up on looking for this (I did though!)

I could see the foal moving round in the mare way before now - especially when giving her a brush on ribs/tummy  foal used turn round and round and round I used to get very excited at this, my mare was a saint and just raised an eybrow to indicate she thought I was a fool

Just one other thing, if there is a chance that she is in foal and you seem fairly certain she is, I would separate her from other horses now and let her have a quiet paddock by herself.

Good luck - will keep  following your posts


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## CeeBee (8 October 2011)

Do hope we are going to see some foal pics soon


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## Spring Feather (8 October 2011)

I've foaled down loads of mares and the vast majority have presented with textbook signs.  Your mare isn't and I truly wish it was more evident whether she is pregnant or not as you sound so excited about it all!  Wishing you and your mare well whatever the final outcome is


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## Aperchristmastree (8 October 2011)

Weren't you going to get a repro specialist to have a look at her?  I've only read half the thread so apologies if this has already been covered.


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## Ibblebibble (8 October 2011)

queenbee said:



			Cheers hun, I actually can't quite believe whats happening.  I was saying to my friend the other day, that ebony has given me everything I could possibly ever want from a horse, she has the biggest heart, I could never have asked for or expected more, then she goes and adds this to the mix too.  Words just fail me 

Click to expand...

that is just so sweet! i really hope there is a foal in there, after all this waiting and wondering it's going to be such a come down if she isn't  But FWIW i'm still  thinking there's something going on in there
Come on Ebs, push honey push


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## Queenbee (8 October 2011)

Apercrumbie said:



			Weren't you going to get a repro specialist to have a look at her?  I've only read half the thread so apologies if this has already been covered.
		
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No that was another poster with another horse


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## Queenbee (8 October 2011)

Spring Feather said:



			I've foaled down loads of mares and the vast majority have presented with textbook signs.  Your mare isn't and I truly wish it was more evident whether she is pregnant or not as you sound so excited about it all!  Wishing you and your mare well whatever the final outcome is 

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SF, as far as I am concerned, what will be will be, it is an exciting journey, but TBH whatever the outcome I already have two fantastic horses.  I would say though that I thought that  scraping the hell out of her tummy, lots of movement in the correct areas at dinner time, total temperament change, and the changes in the way she carries her weight were text book type signs.  I don't know 4 certain what is happening but I do have a 'gut feeling' what I do know is   my mare, the changes in her are definate.  and if I touch her side where it is poking out where it shouldn't and she lifts her leg to scrape at her tummy in annoyance, just the same way she does at dinner time... I can guarentee you in all my 10yrs of owning her she has never done this before these last couple of months.  of course these changes could all be a fantastic coincidence or they could all indicate that she and he did get jiggy with it  guess we will all just have to stay tuned...x


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## indie999 (8 October 2011)

Fingers crossed for your mare and you. Keep us posted she looks very pot. How exciting either way keep us posted as its a good learning curve all this horse malarchy!


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## SusieT (8 October 2011)

Surely at this point you should be able to feel /see movement if you habng around long enough?


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## Hells Bells (8 October 2011)

the pictures you posted yesterday certainly make her tummy look a bit different to the previous pics. Saying that, it may just be me getting over excited for you!!

And this is going to sound REALLY dim, but i just realised how even more lovely it is, that, if there is a foal, it'll be from both of your horses...i know thats obvious, but the more i think about, the more amazing it is- lots of people go to studs, but youve got a baby from your 2 favouritist horsies! Will you keep the foal if there is one?

Give my love to your boy and girl! x


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## Queenbee (9 October 2011)

Hi all, still no foal but a few replies to other posters and a progress report with more piccys:

First can I say a huge thank you to you all, your enthusiasm and enjoyment of our little adventure has really overwhelmed me, I am pretty sure that its not just a huge giant tapeworm inside her  but what ever the outcome, I am really enjoying sharing it with you all.



SusieT said:



			Surely at this point you should be able to feel /see movement if you habng around long enough?
		
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susie, I am feeling and seeing lots of movement, lumps and bumps and have been for a while now, the thing is I still can't quite believe it even though the lumps and bumps move!  I am not 'talking myself out of it' like I was, but I do keep telling myself that there is a chance I am just bonkers and have convinced myself that they are there even though I can feel  and see these things (does that make sense?)



gg1986 said:



			the pictures you posted yesterday certainly make her tummy look a bit different to the previous pics. Saying that, it may just be me getting over excited for you!!

And this is going to sound REALLY dim, but i just realised how even more lovely it is, that, if there is a foal, it'll be from both of your horses...i know thats obvious, but the more i think about, the more amazing it is- lots of people go to studs, but youve got a baby from your 2 favouritist horsies! Will you keep the foal if there is one?

Give my love to your boy and girl! x
		
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You are so right GG, and to give a quick run down on the 2:

Ebony was purchased with my student loan in the last year of uni she kept me going and kept me sane whilst I commuted 140 miles to and from uni and held down a full time job, god knows how I did it.   One day I was looking out of my window at a field of horses and I decided to ask the owner if she had anything that I could ride, she told me no.  A couple of weeks later she said she had been thinking and she did have a mare, she wasn't for sale but I could ride her if I wanted.  My first hack on ebs and came to a sharp stop when she saw a cyclist and bolted home, I thought I would never be allowed back on her back, but not so,  We quickly bonded, she turned into a stroppy diva whenever I walked away and one day the woman offered for me to purchase her if I wanted.  I won't say we never looked back, because she was the sharpest horse i have ever ridden back then, really nervy and lots of hard work, hollow to ride and a stargazer...  it took years, but we got there and I couldn't be more proud of her for everything she has done, she is the perfect mare and will always want to learn and have fun .

I saw ben when he was 2 weeks old, he was a bold but gentle little foal and totally unphased by the children that were clambering to climb the gate to his field, I adored him from that very moment.  I was looking to buy a youngster but was not there to see him, I was there for a BBQ, as we drove away OH said:  'if you like him I will buy him for you for christmas'  the next time I saw him was when he turned up at my field at 6 months old.  He is quick to learn, very friendly a genuine little big man and I can't wait to ride him, he learns his job and loves to learn and play.  The last time I really rode a gelding was my 13.1 pony pickles who was my first pony and my soulmate back then, ben has a lot to live up to but he is doing it well 


I love them both very much, Ebony is my number one, we have been on such a journey together since the first day I rode her and her development into a the super schoolmistress that she is today never ceases to blow me away, at the moment she is so very tender and loving, YO went out to check her for me last night and she followed her around the stable nuzzling her.  I think that way to often we can tend to take our ownership and our time with these lovely giants for granted, this 'is she/isn't she' has really brought this to my attention, I have spent far more time with my two recently and I realise just how blessed I am to have such a fantastic gentle and loving partner and friend in ebony and fun, willing and cracking little friend in ben.  Whatever the outcome, this journey had given me that and life has given me these 2 stunning companions.

Anyway,  I will stop gushing now and move on to progress pics from this morning, vulva seemed to have tightened again yesterday morning but looked as relaxed as it did before this morning but still a way to go no pic though.  I have been trying for a few days to get you some pics of the 'moving lumps and bumps' but they don't always show up well with the flash but today I found a new camera angle  I have also taken some side shots of it and tried to put a circle around where the lump was in the photos so you can see it, it was much more prominent in reality.


Is that a foal you're smuggling in there or did you just swallow a whale? 











No change here:






Pictures of her side, tried to circle where the lump was  but its not that obvious in the pictures:
















And the final 'new camera angle'  the lump disappears when you touch it and moves she was ok with me touching it today but will bring her back legs right up and scrape her hoof along her tummy sometimes when you touch it and it moves away.


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## trickivicki (9 October 2011)

I am to excited by this!!!!! Tell her to start pushing!


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## Queenbee (9 October 2011)

Shameless bump...



Any comments on tonights pics?  And her lumpy bump?

Also introducing a tired ben...


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## Hells Bells (9 October 2011)

ohh those bumps look very promising!! How exciting for you! 

PS... would you minding cloning Ben and sending the result to me? Such a cutie!


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## Emilieu (9 October 2011)

Ooh this is so exciting, I have been lurking but I can't open the thread fast enough when I see an update. I'm no expert but those bumps look foal shaped to me


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## gonebananas (9 October 2011)

i.e.food and supplementing, give her a bloody spicy curry!!!  

hope all goes well for you, i'm looking forward to the result!


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## Queenbee (9 October 2011)

gg1986 said:



			ohh those bumps look very promising!! How exciting for you! 

PS... would you minding cloning Ben and sending the result to me? Such a cutie!
		
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GG, he has a full sister, similar colouring 1 yr older, they were going to keep her and breed a foal, they will probably sell her then, or they may sell her before for the right price


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## Queenbee (9 October 2011)

Emilieu said:



			Ooh this is so exciting, I have been lurking but I can't open the thread fast enough when I see an update. I'm no expert but those bumps look foal shaped to me 

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I am glad you are enjoying it   The do look suspect don't they, YO/ friend and I spend hours gazing at her over the stable wall watching the alien shapes coming and going   we will feel like right ***** if there is nothing but wind in there! LOL!


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## Spring Feather (9 October 2011)

queenbee said:



			susie, I am feeling and seeing lots of movement, lumps and bumps and have been for a while now, the thing is I still can't quite believe it even though the lumps and bumps move!  I am not 'talking myself out of it' like I was, but I do keep telling myself that there is a chance I am just bonkers and have convinced myself that they are there even though I can feel  and see these things (does that make sense?)
		
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If you are seeing the foal leaping around in her belly then that's a defacto and unmistakable sign that she's pregnant lol!  Sorry I hadn't realised you were seeing foal movements


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## Queenbee (9 October 2011)

Spring Feather said:



			If you are seeing the foal leaping around in her belly then that's a defacto and unmistakable sign that she's pregnant lol!  Sorry I hadn't realised you were seeing foal movements 

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Thank you SF, I see and feel lots, but always doubt myself even though 'its so not normal!!' I was actually wondering what you in particular thought, because it you are a bit of an oracle on these thing (not sarcasm... genuine )  The lumpy pictures are promising too no?


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## cronkmooar (10 October 2011)

queenbee said:



			Thank you SF, I see and feel lots, but always doubt myself even though 'its so not normal!!' I was actually wondering what you in particular thought, because it you are a bit of an oracle on these thing (not sarcasm... genuine )  The lumpy pictures are promising too no?
		
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It sounds like you are now really certain your mare is in foal.  

Given that you know the dates and that time is getting close I would again suggest that the mare is put in a paddock of her own (your photos show her in with company) and I would also suggest that you put down a proper foaling bed as from you pictures you have not done this yet.

Good luck


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## Bedlam (10 October 2011)

Not fully au fait with this, so apologies if I'm repeating what others have said (actually can't believe that no one has) and I haven't read the whole thread, but it sounds like you think you mare may be in foal but don't know so are feeding her as if she is just in case?

Can you not get a vet out to tell you one way or the other - it wouldn't take long - and then you would know for sure? Are her vaccinations at the right time for a foaling? Has she been wormed as an in foal mare? Are you ready and do you know what to do if something goes a bit wrong? I'm just a wee bit bemused why you wouldn't want to know for sure and then start planning properly?

On the other hand if she isn't in foal and is just fat then you are doing all the wrong things by feeding her in this way.......

I'd want to know - for the sake of a call out fee and a quick internal?


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## Bedlam (10 October 2011)

OK - have scanned back through the thread and apparently you have spoken to a vet friend on the phone about this and it's all fine.

Good Luck!


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## Ellies_mum2 (10 October 2011)

Have been following this with interest but not commented before as have nothing to add as never bred a foal and don't think I will be even though I have 2 mares of my own  

I too have an Ebony. A rather sharp sensitive mare to ride that I have had for 5 months and she has taught me loads and we are developing a good bond that I hope will be as strong as the one you have with your mare  


Good luck with the foaling and can't wait to see the new foal


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## Queenbee (10 October 2011)

cronkmooar said:



			It sounds like you are now really certain your mare is in foal.  

Given that you know the dates and that time is getting close I would again suggest that the mare is put in a paddock of her own (your photos show her in with company) and I would also suggest that you put down a proper foaling bed as from you pictures you have not done this yet.

Good luck
		
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Morning    I started to do this last night,  I decided to pull her hay up off the floor because she wasn't eating it (she was stealing bens from his haynet since we moved the bales from next door!)  Stable had a disinfect and I popped the water bucket up on the back wall (we have a trough wall so put it up there off ground level)  The entire stable floor is now deeply bedded with HUGE banks.  And we opened up the new paddock for her during saturday and popped her in there, she can still see her friends over the fence but she can have her own space too.

Neither of them ate much last night, Ebony only ate about 3/4 of her feed and hadn't touched her hay, ben had eaten all of his feed and eaten about half a haynet of feed.    This is the first night that they haven't eaten like pigs, I am surprised that ebony didn't finish off her feed during the night though.  Other than that, no change this morning. x


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## BlairandAzria (10 October 2011)

Aww ive been following your threads from the beginning, but have not posted as i only have geldings so have absolutely zero experience of foaling!  But just wanted to say good luck, fingers crossed for you and ebony!.....how exciting for you!  xxx


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## Ibblebibble (10 October 2011)

is it here yet??


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## Queenbee (10 October 2011)

Ibblebibble said:



			is it here yet??

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Love it 

You lot are like children in a car journey:

'Are we there yet?'

'How many miles to go?'


'How far's a mile?'


No  Ibble it isn't, just had a text off YO to say she is chillaxing in her field and all is well.


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## BonneMaman (10 October 2011)

We have got a shire x TB gelding that looks more pregnant than that - I haven't managed to trawl through all the replies but I assume from you first post that you haven't bothered to get a confirmation of the pregnancy and therefore have not bothered to get the additional jabs recommended....


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## LisW (10 October 2011)

I keep eagerly coming on here to look for news of the arrival!!!


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## Queenbee (10 October 2011)

BonneMaman said:



			We have got a shire x TB gelding that looks more pregnant than that - I haven't managed to trawl through all the replies but I assume from you first post that you haven't bothered to get a confirmation of the pregnancy and therefore have not bothered to get the additional jabs recommended....
		
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Your assumption is correct, should you want to bash me for this, perhaps you would like to post on my previous thread, this is generally for people following the journey with excitement.  BM  you can also assume that I have owned my mare for 10 years and know her more than you do, your shire x TB is yours Ebony is mine, Ebony is not your shire x tb and therefore you can not compare the 2.  Perhaps your shire x tb is just fat, however, if you want to revisit my pictures you can clearly see ebonys ribs you will also see that not all horses look like whales before they drop.  For further negative comments please post on the other thread or take the time to actually read this one before you post please


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## YasandCrystal (10 October 2011)

This is soooo much better than any soap


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## CeeBee (10 October 2011)

Noooo, don't start arguing I love reading Ebony updates  don't want thread to be removed due to Queenbee bashing, there is already a thread like that elsewhere...


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## Queenbee (10 October 2011)

CeeBee said:



			Noooo, don't start arguing I love reading Ebony updates  don't want thread to be removed due to Queenbee bashing, there is already a thread like that elsewhere...
		
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PMSL   Sorry, should have ignored it, I shall have to change my sig to put a link that says if you want to bash me go to this thread LOL!  To be fair to BM,  I have had far worse comments than that.


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## Queenbee (10 October 2011)

YasandCrystal said:



			This is soooo much better than any soap  

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I need to sort out a dramatic theme tune

duh,duh, duh de da da da, tum te tum te tum... or something like that 


I think you lot are far more like cats on a hot tin roof over this than I am LOL!


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## lochpearl (10 October 2011)

QB can you tell Ebony to hurry up please? we need to see photos


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## rhino (10 October 2011)

queenbee said:



			For further negative comments please post on the other thread or take the time to actually read this one before you post please
		
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Unfortunately when you post on a public forum you can't really choose to only accept replies you agree with 

I'm really not trying to upset anyone and I hope you have a beautiful foal soon, certainly looks like mum is 'cooking' him/her up well  But foaling can go wrong and when it does it is horrible. Could you hand on heart say if anything went wrong you would still be happy with your decisions? 

I promise you I'm not trying to be offensive and look forward to your 'It's arrived' post, but having read so many heartbreaking foaling stories on here and elsewhere I know if it was me I would personally have had an experienced repro vet out before now.

Good luck as it is your decision and your decision alone


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## BonneMaman (10 October 2011)

queenbee said:



			Your assumption is correct, should you want to bash me for this, perhaps you would like to post on my previous thread, this is generally for people following the journey with excitement.  BM  you can also assume that I have owned my mare for 10 years and know her more than you do, your shire x TB is yours Ebony is mine, Ebony is not your shire x tb and therefore you can not compare the 2.  Perhaps your shire x tb is just fat, however, if you want to revisit my pictures you can clearly see ebonys ribs you will also see that not all horses look like whales before they drop.  For further negative comments please post on the other thread or take the time to actually read this one before you post please
		
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My shire x TB is a gelding so yes, he is fat - certainly not pregnant.  My post was not a negative one, you should be thinking about your mare and foal's welfare.  I believe it is totally irresponsible of you to not confirm the pregnancy and then act accordingly.  Additional antibodies from top up booster jabs are a recommended part of mare in foal care.  My mare lost a foal to tetanus (before me) and a friend of mine had a mare abort due to complications from not following booster jab advice.  Keep your fluffy thread going by all means but if you lose the foal please don't come crying on here.  Or perhaps you will start up two threads - one for the "bashing" and one for the "didums hugs".


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## Spring Feather (10 October 2011)

Foals wriggling around inside mares is unmistakable.  Photos aren't reliable enough to say ye or nay but real life movements are and if you're seeing them then she's pregnant   The bump ones look like there's a bump in there but could be a play on the light.  In one of the belly photos it looks like she has 3 big bug bites all in a row but in real life and real time if those 3 "bug bites" are moving and then disappearing then they sure aren't bug bites!  

If in the next few weeks her belly starts to drop and point, her teats enlarge (with or without bagging up), her bum sinks, her sacroiliac peaks, her vulva slackens ... then you really know she's on track to foaling.


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## Vixen Van Debz (10 October 2011)

queenbee - I've only come across this story today but have now read the previous threads to catch up as I am hooked!  Those moving bumps that Ebony kicks her belly at when they're pressed and moved... how could it be anything else?!

I also love your approach: to give your mare all the comforts and protections she could need if she was in foal, but to be open to the fact she might not be. To be so appreciative of what you already have is wonderful: too few people realise just how blessed they are with their equine companions in life.

Besides, mares get pregnant and give birth in the wild or even in their new homes all the time, without any supplements, foaling kits, birthing boxes... I don't see any welfare issue whatsoever in not confirming the pregnancy. If there's one thing clear from this story it is how well loved Ebony is 80)


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## rhino (10 October 2011)

Vixen Van Debz said:



			Besides, mares get pregnant and give birth in the wild or even in their new homes all the time, without any supplements, foaling kits, birthing boxes... I don't see any welfare issue whatsoever in not confirming the pregnancy. If there's one thing clear from this story it is how well loved Ebony is 80)
		
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And do you know what the survival rate is in the wild? Nothing like in 'domestic' horses. It's like comparing survival rates in humans between developed and developing countries... 

If only love was enough, our horses would live forever and vets would be out of a job. Sadly it's not.


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## Ibblebibble (10 October 2011)

Vixen Van Debz said:



			Besides, mares get pregnant and give birth in the wild or even in their new homes all the time, without any supplements, foaling kits, birthing boxes... I don't see any welfare issue whatsoever in not confirming the pregnancy. If there's one thing clear from this story it is how well loved Ebony is 80)
		
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well said,


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## Queenbee (10 October 2011)

rhino said:



			Unfortunately when you post on a public forum you can't really choose to only accept replies you agree with 

I'm really not trying to upset anyone and I hope you have a beautiful foal soon, certainly looks like mum is 'cooking' him/her up well  But foaling can go wrong and when it does it is horrible. Could you hand on heart say if anything went wrong you would still be happy with your decisions? 

I promise you I'm not trying to be offensive and look forward to your 'It's arrived' post, but having read so many heartbreaking foaling stories on here and elsewhere I know if it was me I would personally have had an experienced repro vet out before now.

Good luck as it is your decision and your decision alone 

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I know, and I agree with you,  I have already said that everyone is entitled to their opinions, it is just that I have responded to those opinions already, and I do not see why I have to again when if people took the time to read before they post they would already find the answers to their questions.

Hand on heart I would say that yes, I would still be happy with my decisions,  I did not decide to put her in foal, and if this was a planned pregnancy I would have had every check going, believe  me, but she lasted a long time into this with no one ever suspecting, by which time we were most of the way through it!   It is not as though I have not talked it over with professionals down here, and perhaps I am more laid back than some would be, but it just feels right,  I go a lot on gut instinct, it has not let me down yet.  I am not saying that if I preplanned this I would do it this way, I wouldn't.  One of the reasons I never put her into foal is that I would be devastated if something went wrong, but I can't change it now, I am reassured by the professionals I know, I have fantastic people around me down here for support. Ebony has as good a chance as any of delivering a happy healthy foal and she is far better cared for that a lot of broodmares down here.



BonneMaman said:



			My shire x TB is a gelding so yes, he is fat - certainly not pregnant.  My post was not a negative one, you should be thinking about your mare and foal's welfare.  I believe it is totally irresponsible of you to not confirm the pregnancy and then act accordingly.  Additional antibodies from top up booster jabs are a recommended part of mare in foal care.  My mare lost a foal to tetanus (before me) and a friend of mine had a mare abort due to complications from not following booster jab advice.  Keep your fluffy thread going by all means but if you lose the foal please don't come crying on here.  Or perhaps you will start up two threads - one for the "bashing" and one for the "didums hugs".
		
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I promise you that I am thinking of their welfare, I am completely happy with my course of action and have sought appropriate advice.  I had a mare abort to and I have worked at a stud, I promise you I am not completely dim or neglectful when it comes to my horses.  They are well cared for and provided for.  No doubt I will come crying on here if indeed the foal is lost but I would just point out that this was set up so people who were interested could follow the story.  Everyone is entitled to their opinions, everyone does things differently, but just because I don't conform to some other peoples views does not mean I do not have my mare and foal's  (if the is one) best interest and welfare at heart.  And please don't call me fluffy   I am far from it.

Now, if your Shire x TB were pregnant then that would be a real interesting thread 



Spring Feather said:



			Foals wriggling around inside mares is unmistakable.  Photos aren't reliable enough to say ye or nay but real life movements are and if you're seeing them then she's pregnant   The bump ones look like there's a bump in there but could be a play on the light.  In one of the belly photos it looks like she has 3 big bug bites all in a row but in real life and real time if those 3 "bug bites" are moving and then disappearing then they sure aren't bug bites!  

If in the next few weeks her belly starts to drop and point, her teats enlarge (with or without bagging up), her bum sinks, her sacroiliac peaks, her vulva slackens ... then you really know she's on track to foaling.
		
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SF I can promise you that what was in those photos moved... these bug bites MOVE  :ekk:


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## ischa (10 October 2011)

I have to agree with Rhino , in the wild or not , or whether or not you know your mare , none of these come into it 
, the way OP has dealt with this whether or not she has spoken to a vet is in a unprofessional way . 
Has the vet seen the mare ??
A vet can't say for sure if she is infoal but just looking 
And a vet cannot diagnose twins 
All has to be done by either a examination or a scan 
Whether or not you know your mare , one thing for sure is that you can't be sure if your mare will run into difficulties in foaling


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## rhino (10 October 2011)

queenbee said:



			Hand on heart I would say that yes, I would still be happy with my decisions
		
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Then I wish you the best of luck, sounds like you are going to be a grandma soon x


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## Queenbee (10 October 2011)

Vixen Van Debz said:



			queenbee - I've only come across this story today but have now read the previous threads to catch up as I am hooked!  Those moving bumps that Ebony kicks her belly at when they're pressed and moved... how could it be anything else?!

I also love your approach: to give your mare all the comforts and protections she could need if she was in foal, but to be open to the fact she might not be. To be so appreciative of what you already have is wonderful: too few people realise just how blessed they are with their equine companions in life.

Besides, mares get pregnant and give birth in the wild or even in their new homes all the time, without any supplements, foaling kits, birthing boxes... I don't see any welfare issue whatsoever in not confirming the pregnancy. If there's one thing clear from this story it is how well loved Ebony is 80)
		
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Thank you 




rhino said:



			And do you know what the survival rate is in the wild? Nothing like in 'domestic' horses. It's like comparing survival rates in humans between developed and developing countries... 

If only love was enough, our horses would live forever and vets would be out of a job. Sadly it's not.
		
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Fair point there.  Isn't love a good place to start though.  I would just like to add that I am not vet shy, far from it, my horses are loved, but I am also vigilant and take good care of them and their wellbeing 

Anyhow, off to the stables to drag the neddies in for sleeps now


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## ischa (10 October 2011)

Also mares need vaccination programs in order so anti bodies are passed through milk which is why the first bit of milk is really important 
Has you mare had a vaccination recently ???
Also worming needs to be spot on !!
Also does feeding Protein is an important part of a diet in pregnant and nursing mares. A mare with a protein deficiency can stunt a developing fetus and can give birth to a foal with a low birth weight or a foal with slow growth. A protein level thats too high can also result in problems. Developmental diseases such as club foot, osteochondrosis and other deformities can arise when too much protein is fed. Thus its important to find the right balance when feeding protein. And many others


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## Queenbee (10 October 2011)

ischa said:



			I have to agree with Rhino , in the wild or not , or whether or not you know your mare , none of these come into it 
, the way OP has dealt with this whether or not she has spoken to a vet is in a unprofessional way . 
Has the vet seen the mare ??
A vet can't say for sure if she is infoal but just looking 
And a vet cannot diagnose twins 
All has to be done by either a examination or a scan 
Whether or not you know your mare , one thing for sure is that you can't be sure if your mare will run into difficulties in foaling
		
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Ischa your questions were answered in the last thread, by the time anyone thought it was a possibility she would have been too far gone for twins.  If we run into foaling difficulties, well that will be dealt with, I have 2 experienced people on hand, OH and YO husband who have delivered 100s of large animals and the vet down the rd


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## ischa (10 October 2011)

Please do not think I'm having ago just very concerned that your mare hasn't been seen , (yes vet might say she is ok ) 
But pregnancy and foaling


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## Ibblebibble (10 October 2011)

ischa said:



			I have to agree with Rhino , in the wild or not , or whether or not you know your mare , none of these come into it 
, the way OP has dealt with this whether or not she has spoken to a vet is in a unprofessional way . 
Has the vet seen the mare ??
A vet can't say for sure if she is infoal but just looking 
And a vet cannot diagnose twins 
All has to be done by either a examination or a scan 
Whether or not you know your mare , one thing for sure is that you can't be sure if your mare will run into difficulties in foaling
		
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things can still go wrong even when a vet has done all the checks, things can go wrong even when a vet is present at the foaling, just because a vet has examined a horse doesn't guarantee a problem free foaling Nature will take it's course and just because the OP hasn't done things they way you may have doesn't make it wrong.


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## ischa (10 October 2011)

Can be unpredictable at times 
, I wish you and your mare the best and hope things go smoothly


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## Spring Feather (10 October 2011)

ischa said:



			I have to agree with Rhino , in the wild or not , or whether or not you know your mare , none of these come into it 
, the way OP has dealt with this whether or not she has spoken to a vet is in a unprofessional way . 
Has the vet seen the mare ??
A vet can't say for sure if she is infoal but just looking 
And a vet cannot diagnose twins 
All has to be done by either a examination or a scan 
Whether or not you know your mare , one thing for sure is that you can't be sure if your mare will run into difficulties in foaling
		
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I was possibly one of the first people to berate QB for her actions (or lack of).  Read back through her threads and you'll see I lodged my complaints and explained why what she was doing seemed highly unethical to someone like me who breeds for a living.  However, at some point we have to accept that not everyone does things in a manner that we agree with so we move on.  I would not wish anything awful to happen to the mare or foal.  If either or both of them died I am sure QB would be as devasted as many a breeder I know who have suffered such an horrific loss and yes she would be wracked with guilt afterwards.  On a brighter note, most foalings go well.  QB will hopefully continue with her photo and post updates and even though everything she's done goes totally against the grain for me, I for one will help her out in any way I can.


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## amage (10 October 2011)

While I don't agree with your system for doing things (although admittedly I am the most impatient person in the world coupled with being a compulsive planner so couldn't handle not knowing) I do wish you the very best of luck and if your gut feeling is good then go with it. You asked about feeding and one thing to bear in mind is that as foalie gets bigger inside her then there is less gut space hence while her requirements go up, her intakes may drop a bit. This is the benefit in feeding a stud cube/mix which is designed as a concentrate to give her what she needs. I am not saying reduce her forage but more if you notice the forage intake dropping then ensure you are feeding enough of a good stud feed.


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## -Sj- (10 October 2011)

I get quite excited when I see you've updated this thread.

Hope you get some news soon QB x


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## ischa (10 October 2011)

Ibblebibble  yes foalings can go wrong even with vet 
All the reason why the horse should be seen by  vet should anything acure , not only can things go wrong in foaling , but also through pregnancy .
Least a vet is  alot more experienced and prepared to deal with difficult  foalings and pregnancys


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## TicTac (10 October 2011)

She could be having a phantom pregnancy!


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## quirky (10 October 2011)

ischa said:



			Ibblebibble  yes foalings can go wrong even with vet 
All the reason why the horse should be seen by  vet should anything acure , not only can things go wrong in foaling , but also through pregnancy .
Least a vet is  alot more experienced and prepared to deal with difficult  foalings and pregnancys
		
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Change the record. QB has decided on her course of action, you trumpeting on and on and on ain't going to change her mind .

SF - What a lovely attitude to have - don't agree with things but offering help/guidance regardless .


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## EquestrianFairy (10 October 2011)

ischa said:



			I have to agree with Rhino , in the wild or not , or whether or not you know your mare , none of these come into it 
, the way OP has dealt with this whether or not she has spoken to a vet is in a unprofessional way . 
Has the vet seen the mare ??
A vet can't say for sure if she is infoal but just looking 
And a vet cannot diagnose twins 
All has to be done by either a examination or a scan 
Whether or not you know your mare , one thing for sure is that you can't be sure if your mare will run into difficulties in foaling
		
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Then i should be banned from keeping horses!!

I bought two mares.. both ended up foaling (without me even knowing)
One mare i bought and was retired shortly afterwards due to arthritis, she was put with a local farmer and i went away for a few months. I came back to visit one weekend and noticed she was looking portly to say the least. She was out in a field in the middle of a farm with a number of other horses and early hours of the following moring she was found with a foal at foot.
Both are still with me and happy and healthy.

I bought another mare off the merthyr moutains, she was skinny and riddled with worms. 2 months later she was being ridden and had some good weight on her, we did a 12 mile pleasure ride on the Sunday.. On the wednesday i noticed raised pulses in her feet and because we were being careful about Lammi due to her being significantly underweight when we got her we kept her in until Friday when her pulses went down and she went back out again.. Saturday morning she was found with a coloured filly at foot... again both are fine and healthy.

I am an experienced horse owner and even my own vet who had treated the 2nd mare with an abcess a week before the pleasure ride hadnt noticed. I have photos of the day of the ride and she looks as far from pregnant as you could get.

Horses do foal with no issues and without vet help, mine never had the chance to have any form of special supplements and still are happy and healthy.


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## rhino (10 October 2011)

EquestrianFairy said:



			I bought two mares.. both ended up foaling (without me even knowing)
Both are still with me and happy and healthy.
		
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Only no-one was saying it's impossible for a mare to have a healthy foal without veterinary attention (otherwise they would have become extinct rather a long time ago  ). What they are saying is that with appropriate veterinary attention there is statistically a _greater likelihood_ of a positive outcome.


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## Charem (10 October 2011)

I work at a stud and although personally I would have a vet to check to see if she is in-foal (which I think is more down to my impatientness!) many horses/ponies foal completely unaided.

For example, a lady I ride for breeds new forest ponies. Her mare runs the forest, she's never been near a vaccination or wormer. She get's covered on the forest by one of the stallions and when the time got near we ride out and find her, eventually avec baby! She's had 3 foals this way, all are very healthy. The foals come in on the drifts with mum and they are either weaned then or are branded and go back out.

Of course sometimes things can go wrong, but other than a vet saying....yep she's in foal, or possibly yep she's got twins there's not much more that they can do.

Best of luck, I too think she's got a bun in the oven and look forward to lots of snuggly foal pics! xx


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## Hells Bells (10 October 2011)

Well all i have to say, is goodluck Ebony and goodluck QB.

What has happened here, is a beautiful accident, and one that has caused plenty of smiles all round im sure.

Sure, there are people with different opinnions and what have you, but at the end of the day, this is QB's situation to deal with, and i think she';s dealing with it very well.

Whatever the outcome, good or bad, i wont change my opinnion 

ps... spoke to the OH this afternoon (in my battered state from the fall earlier) about the filly sister of Ben...that was a definite NO! Shame...


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## BonneMaman (10 October 2011)

rhino said:



			Only no-one was saying it's impossible for a mare to have a healthy foal without veterinary attention (otherwise they would have become extinct rather a long time ago  ). What they are saying is that with appropriate veterinary attention there is statistically a _greater likelihood_ of a positive outcome. 



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Absolutely - we have the medical know how and ability to hand so it should be used.  Sticking your fluffy fairy head in the sand and saying "what will be will be" is pure nonsense.  If, OP, you have the experience you are harping on about you should know what could go wrong.  Seems to me like you are just enjoying the notoriety and attention.  You have known for weeks if not months that this mare could be pregnant and you have made absolutely no effort to confirm one way or the other and then IF she is to take appropriate action.  That is neglect, pure and simple.  It has nothing to do with "gut feelings" or "my mare my rules" or "mother nature if a wonderful thing" or "mares in the wild do it all the time" - cost cutting neglect, pure and simple.  Mares and foals in the wild die because mother nature is cruel.


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## amy-and-buster03 (10 October 2011)

BonneMaman said:



			Absolutely - we have the medical know how and ability to hand so it should be used.  Sticking your fluffy fairy head in the sand and saying "what will be will be" is pure nonsense.  If, OP, you have the experience you are harping on about you should know what could go wrong.  Seems to me like you are just enjoying the notoriety and attention.  You have known for weeks if not months that this mare could be pregnant and you have made absolutely no effort to confirm one way or the other and then IF she is to take appropriate action.  That is neglect, pure and simple.  It has nothing to do with "gut feelings" or "my mare my rules" or "mother nature if a wonderful thing" or "mares in the wild do it all the time" - cost cutting neglect, pure and simple.  Mares and foals in the wild die because mother nature is cruel.
		
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Without sinking to your level, I must say your responses to this thread are really quite spiteful. 'Sticking your fluffy fairy head in the sand', wow aren't you charming. At the end of the day, if you don't like it then don't read it. Quite sad that you are getting all aggravated at your keyboard purely because someone has not chosen the method of care you would. The OP very clearly takes brilliant care of the horse and it is just one of those things. She has said countless times that it was very much an unforseeable accident and now she is dealing with it. Oh and you really are very delluded if you think that it is neglect. The horse has feed, a supply of fresh water, turnout and a dedicated owner so if you are so concerned about neglect then go and deal with an RSPCA case. But like I said, if you don't like it then don't look and don't post your negative, bitter comments.


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## Queenbee (10 October 2011)

BonneMaman said:



			Absolutely - we have the medical know how and ability to hand so it should be used.  Sticking your fluffy fairy head in the sand and saying "what will be will be" is pure nonsense.  If, OP, you have the experience you are harping on about you should know what could go wrong.  Seems to me like you are just enjoying the notoriety and attention.  You have known for weeks if not months that this mare could be pregnant and you have made absolutely no effort to confirm one way or the other and then IF she is to take appropriate action.  That is neglect, pure and simple.  It has nothing to do with "gut feelings" or "my mare my rules" or "mother nature if a wonderful thing" or "mares in the wild do it all the time" - cost cutting neglect, pure and simple.  Mares and foals in the wild die because mother nature is cruel.
		
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Sorry but I have pretty much had enough of the lot of the 'bashers' on here, who on here rides without shoes because they think shoeing is bad for horses?  Who won't feed from a haynet because they think it is 'unnatural' who will or won't hunt, I can take 'opinions' and advice and different attitudes but you do not know me, just because I don't get a book out and do things 'step by step' like bloody riding school.  I have a brain, I have weighed up the pros and cons and made my decision.  I dealt with all of this in my previous post, I began this thread because a lot of people were interested and excited.  And you have come in with your holier than though 'narrow minded' judgemental attitude and turned a thread sour.  I have a clear conscience about what I am doing and how I am handling things.  I can just say that I do not often lose my cool but calling me 'neglectful' and 'cost cutting' I wish you were in the room with me because you have no idea how much of an insult that is.  Furthermore, a little run down my dear, since you do not know me, OH owns a hell of a lot of land down here, I have my stables at his but choose to pay to keep them at livery (cost cutting? don't think so)  I can afford to keep them, and have vet out on a regular basis if needed, and whenever I am worried about the welfare of my horses I bloody well do!!  

I am sorry to everyone that was enjoying this thread but it is not what it was, the very nature of it has changed, but my blood is currently boiling because this thread was not entitled 'advice/opinions please' and I now have very little inclination to continue posting updates.  Just because people were enjoying the thread and the nature of it does not make them fluffy bunnie huggers.  

BM I would suggest that since you state that your gelding is fatter than ebony and there is obviously no doubt that he is not in foal, you look far closer to home for someone to criticise for neglect (but, oh yes I don't know you so WTF do I know about you and your horse!)


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## MiCsarah (10 October 2011)

Please keep us updated queenbee, I'm desperate to know


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## Queenbee (10 October 2011)

amy-and-buster03 said:



			Without sinking to your level, I must say your responses to this thread are really quite spiteful. 'Sticking your fluffy fairy head in the sand', wow aren't you charming. At the end of the day, if you don't like it then don't read it. Quite sad that you are getting all aggravated at your keyboard purely because someone has not chosen the method of care you would. The OP very clearly takes brilliant care of the horse and it is just one of those things. She has said countless times that it was very much an unforseeable accident and now she is dealing with it. Oh and you really are very delluded if you think that it is neglect. The horse has feed, a supply of fresh water, turnout and a dedicated owner so if you are so concerned about neglect then go and deal with an RSPCA case. But like I said, if you don't like it then don't look and don't post your negative, bitter comments.
		
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sorry posted the above post before i read this and had to say thank you A&B 

and BM, should you wish, I will PM you my address so you can report my neglectful ass


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## Hells Bells (10 October 2011)

Oh QB 

I think the 'neglectful' comment was well and truly unfounded. A lot of us on here are really enjoying this journey with you, and think you are doing just fine.

Such a shame that people need to become quite so judgemental...ive seen neglect in the past, and it certainly doesnt look a thing like that!!

chin up xx


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## dominobrown (10 October 2011)

Sorry, just read this thread, and to turn it back onto a slightly lighter note, who is the daddy and what is he like?
You have a lovely mare and I hope everything goes well. Must be SO excited to see the foal!
Also you can tell from the pictures she is foal, not fat or wormy from how she has 'dropped' and where she is carrying the bulge. Where I work they always have a a mare or two in foal, and the no longer scan them as one was scanned early on and it did have twins which it aborted (scan didn't show it), and about 3 or 4 times the scan showed the mare was in/ out of foal and it was wrong. If you know what you are doing I don't see what a vet can do.


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## Black_Horse_White (10 October 2011)

Please don't stop posting updates, take no notice of negative people. The majority of us wish you and your lovely mare well x


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## jhoward (10 October 2011)

QB i dont for a second think your mare is neglected, ive BOTHERED to read all the threads and look at old piccies to see the difference, just keep doing what your doing and post updates! 

ps if your mare doesnt have a foal i may kill you both


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## amy-and-buster03 (10 October 2011)

Oh and ditto what others have said, please do keep updating us and ignore those who feel the need to post vile comments to boost their own egos.I for one am dying to know if and when Ebony pops out a little sproglet haha.


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## quirky (10 October 2011)

BonneMaman said:



			That is neglect, pure and simple.
		
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You are seriously deluded if this is your idea of neglect .
Maybe a look around the WHW site will educate you on what neglect is .
You really have no idea .

QB - You better keep posting updates, otherwise you'll be sending the PM system into meltdown from all of those of us who are excited to know how this turns out!!


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## WelshTilly (10 October 2011)

Black_Horse_White said:



			Please don't stop posting updates, take no notice of negative people. The majority of us wish you and your lovely mare well x
		
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Ditto this QB please keep us updated ive been reading your posts and am excited for you!!!


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## Paint Me Proud (10 October 2011)

my mare had a huge belly, unusual lumps sticking out and if you put your hand on her belly you could feel something moving. However, she wasnt pregnant!

I do hope your girl is expecting but nature can throw curve balls sometimes!!


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## Ibblebibble (10 October 2011)

don't you dare stop posting updates if you do you'll have to pm me your address so i can come sit in the back of your car saying 'is it here yet?'    Oh and Bonnemaman, perhaps you should change your user name, theres nothing Bonne about you at all!!


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## mcnaughty (10 October 2011)

Good on ya BM - you have spelled out exactly what I have been thinking for the past god knows how many weeks.  

Leave them to their deluded fluff posts.  I agree, it is neglect, not of a level that WHW would be interested but still neglect.  Mares should have medical attention if it is available, end of.  We are not discussing a feral or wild mare we are discussing one in captivity.  My mare's foal was unexpected.  I purchased her as an ex broodmare but as soon as I had an inkling that she was pregnant I called the vet to confirm the pregnancy and commenced an appropriate course of feed, worming and vaccinations.

Shame on you all for supporting this rediculous course of action.

OP - if your motive isn't a money saving exercise then it puts even more of a rediculous slant on the whole sad tale.


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## MrVelvet (10 October 2011)

right thats it! NO MORE COMMENTS unless shes foaled!! Im sick of seeing the thread has been bumped, getting excited, having to trawl through people with nothing better to do picking at QB noone cares how anyone else would have done it.. its been done!! ( of course im not referring to the fellow supporters )  so come on Ebony get a move on!!!! 


ps eeeeeek those photos are exciting... could be a little foaly foot or elbow or knee....  ahhh

pps i really should get out more 

ppps eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeek


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## jhoward (10 October 2011)

mcnaughty said:



			Good on ya BM - you have spelled out exactly what I have been thinking for the past god knows how many weeks.  

Leave them to their deluded fluff posts.  I agree, it is neglect, not of a level that WHW would be interested but still neglect.  Mares should have medical attention if it is available, end of.  We are not discussing a feral or wild mare we are discussing one in captivity.  My mare's foal was unexpected.  I purchased her as an ex broodmare but as soon as I had an inkling that she was pregnant I called the vet to confirm the pregnancy and commenced an appropriate course of feed, worming and vaccinations.

Shame on you all for supporting this rediculous course of action.

OP - if your motive isn't a money saving exercise then it puts even more of a rediculous slant on the whole sad tale.
		
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dear god, get real, 

if you BOTHERED to actully read anything rather than spouting off then you would see the op HAS seeked advice from her vet. 

now let me just say that again. 

op has seeked adviced from her vet! 

jesus its not like she has shoved said mare in a stable and pops her head over over the door each day to see if there is a foal or not! 

she has not neglected the mare in anyway! sad tale.. theres a dartmoor hill pony sale on next week, most will end up in an incinerator.. thats after the tramua of being hearded, then put in a sales ring.. thats wrong, what the op is doing isnt!


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## nicnag (10 October 2011)

FFS. What the hell did nature do before we started interfering! this is just one if the things that drives me nuts with the horse world. Bitching and calling other folk for everything just because they have a different way of doing things. What do folk expect the vet to do?  camp out for the length of gestation?  animals often cope better without human intervention whether that be at birth or any other part. 
Good luck Queenbee. Keep us posted!


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## Syrah (10 October 2011)

Good luck QB 

And to those getting their knickers in a twist, try reading all of the threads.

QB HAS sought VETERINARY advice, the mare IS on a feeding and worming regime.


What would satisfy you, if she hired a vet to watch the mare 24/7.

Get a grip and calm down, a vet lives next door to her, but you would know that if you had read the threads


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## amy-and-buster03 (10 October 2011)

nicnag said:



			FFS. What the hell did nature do before we started interfering! this is just one if the things that drives me nuts with the horse world. Bitching and calling other folk for everything just because they have a different way of doing things. What do folk expect the vet to do?  camp out for the length of gestation?  animals often cope better without human intervention whether that be at birth or any other part. 
Good luck Queenbee. Keep us posted!
		
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Exactly!

There are far too many snobs on here thinking they are bloody Ace Ventura or Doctor Dolittle. The mare is quite clearly fine and is coping, *JUST AS MANY IN FOAL MARES DO.* I really wish they wouldn't attempt to put forward such a vehement argument when they are quite clearly so mis-informed. It is *not* neglect, QB has infact spoken to her vet and taken his/her advice.. you would know that if you had actually bothered to read the previous posts rather than jumping to conclusions. Silly people.


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## amy-and-buster03 (10 October 2011)

Now stop spoiling our 'fluffy bunny' thread.


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## Frumpoon (11 October 2011)

mcnaughty said:



			Good on ya BM - you have spelled out exactly what I have been thinking for the past god knows how many weeks.  

Leave them to their deluded fluff posts.  I agree, it is neglect, not of a level that WHW would be interested but still neglect.  Mares should have medical attention if it is available, end of.  We are not discussing a feral or wild mare we are discussing one in captivity.  My mare's foal was unexpected.  I purchased her as an ex broodmare but as soon as I had an inkling that she was pregnant I called the vet to confirm the pregnancy and commenced an appropriate course of feed, worming and vaccinations.

Shame on you all for supporting this rediculous course of action.

OP - if your motive isn't a money saving exercise then it puts even more of a rediculous slant on the whole sad tale.
		
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Boring, boring, boring.....


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## Queenbee (11 October 2011)

Hi Guys, sorry I bailed last night, it really wasn't safe for me to stay on the thread my computer stood the risk of getting a bit broken.    I am a little bit more calm today  I know that I should ignore the bad snipes but last night was a rare occasion where it just got to me, sorry.

I thank you for all your comments and pm's of support since then and am happy to continue up dating you on ebonys progress/lack of it   but if it turns sour again I may have to rethink that, I don't want it to become an unpleasant thread for people to read or to have the nature of the thread changed.  There has been constructive support and differing opinions throughout this story, As Springfeather has said, but her posts really have been the posts of a grown up who is supportive and insightful, not vicious and nasty.  The main thing is that I think it is something different, a real adventure, and there seem to be an overwhelming number of people who are gripped by it,  it would be a shame for everyone if this stopped. I am keeping a journal on my computer (far more in depth than on here) and It has made me observe not only my 2 but the nature of other horses as companions.  Whatever the outcome this has been such an insightful experience for me.  



dominobrown said:



			Sorry, just read this thread, and to turn it back onto a slightly lighter note, who is the daddy and what is he like?
You have a lovely mare and I hope everything goes well. Must be SO excited to see the foal!
Also you can tell from the pictures she is foal, not fat or wormy from how she has 'dropped' and where she is carrying the bulge. Where I work they always have a a mare or two in foal, and the no longer scan them as one was scanned early on and it did have twins which it aborted (scan didn't show it), and about 3 or 4 times the scan showed the mare was in/ out of foal and it was wrong. If you know what you are doing I don't see what a vet can do.
		
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Hi there, thank you for this,  Excited? yes, but only really when rousted up by the HHO lot   TBH I am really really relaxed and chilled with her, but she was always such a live wire, she is now so very calm and loving that I think it just rubs off on me.

Ben my youngster is the daddy, total accident but luckily he's not half bad 

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=475153



jhoward said:



			QB i dont for a second think your mare is neglected, ive BOTHERED to read all the threads and look at old piccies to see the difference, just keep doing what your doing and post updates! 

ps if your mare doesnt have a foal i may kill you both 

Click to expand...

 *currently running for the hills to hide*



MrVelvet said:



			right thats it! NO MORE COMMENTS unless shes foaled!! Im sick of seeing the thread has been bumped, getting excited, having to trawl through people with nothing better to do picking at QB noone cares how anyone else would have done it.. its been done!! ( of course im not referring to the fellow supporters )  so come on Ebony get a move on!!!! 


ps eeeeeek those photos are exciting... could be a little foaly foot or elbow or knee....  ahhh

pps i really should get out more 

ppps eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeek 

Click to expand...

do you want some vallium my love?  I found that a glass of vino helped me loads last night. 

Thankyou to all the voices of sanity and support out there, for those that have read the posts and a big thanks to SF who I think sums how people on this forum should be treated:


Spring Feather said:



			I was possibly one of the first people to berate QB for her actions (or lack of).  Read back through her threads and you'll see I lodged my complaints and explained why what she was doing seemed highly unethical to someone like me who breeds for a living.  However, at some point we have to accept that not everyone does things in a manner that we agree with so we move on.  I would not wish anything awful to happen to the mare or foal.  If either or both of them died I am sure QB would be as devasted as many a breeder I know who have suffered such an horrific loss and yes she would be wracked with guilt afterwards.  On a brighter note, most foalings go well.  QB will hopefully continue with her photo and post updates and even though everything she's done goes totally against the grain for me, I for one will help her out in any way I can.
		
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Updates are as follows:  

No real change at all, although her appetite did pick up a bit more last night, I cut back the ammount of roughage in her feed last night by 1/2 scoop and she ate that no problem, she seemed ravenous last night so I  added the 1/2 scoop back, but the night before she was really unphased by dinner or a haynet.  other than that it is the same as the day before and the day before that.  No pictures today from last night because 1: they show no real change, and 2: I can't upload on this computer.  Didn't get to kiss her goodmorning either because YO turned her and ben out for me this morning,  I got to the stables and they were empty  so I didn't have chance to check her either although YO said there was no major change, but admits she didn't look at her teets.  Really really proud of YO (best mate ) she is really nervous around 'the big ones' as she calls them, she is fantastic with horses but the larger they are, the more nervy she is.  She will handle ebony, but then she absolutely loves her like she were her own but she handled ben this morning too, he is really good bless him, but this would have been a huge thing for YO, so I am really chuffed for her


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## Hells Bells (11 October 2011)

Yayyy youre back


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## Kaylum (11 October 2011)

Oh I am still waiting to hear.

And I know this will shock some people but I worked for an ID stud and they all foaled outside in the field.  May sound strange but it was a brilliant way of keeping disease away and giving a natural birth because they had some much room.  The best advice I can give you QB is make sure you get the naval sorted out as soon as the foal is born as this is wear they can get infections that can kill a foal. x


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## LisW (11 October 2011)

Glad you're back. Still eagerly looking for updates.


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## JessandCharlie (11 October 2011)

Is it here yet?













....How about now?.....

























Now?

 

J&C


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## Emilieu (11 October 2011)

mcnaughty said:



			Leave them to their deluded fluff posts.  QUOTE]

^^^ Yes please, we 'fluffies' would like to be left alone to enjoy the updates and not be bothered with the negative opinions which are irrelevant to this thread. As the OP has already said there is another thread running where you can go and express your opinions as to the op's choices - this thread is 'for those who are INTERESTED' in the updates.

ps. QB. Is it here yet?
		
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## Queenbee (11 October 2011)

Hi all, no, no change still rather plump today.  Her appetite has picked up she was really not interested in anything yesterday  but today she has her head down grazing in the field at the moment.  YO keeping a north eye on her for me until I get up there after work.

Kaylum,  If it were summer, that would be exactly the approach I would be going for, unfortunately its not   but I am prepared for el stumpy with iodine and I have some sterile string etc in the kit


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## FionaM12 (11 October 2011)

Emilieu said:





mcnaughty said:



			Leave them to their deluded fluff posts.  QUOTE]

^^^ Yes please, we 'fluffies' would like to be left alone to enjoy the updates and not be bothered with the negative opinions which are irrelevant to this thread. As the OP has already said there is another thread running where you can go and express your opinions as to the op's choices - this thread is 'for those who are INTERESTED' in the updates.

ps. QB. Is it here yet?
		
Click to expand...

 to above. 

I don't know, I go off to work on a 26 hour shift and the meanies get their teeth into QB in my absence! Damn! Still, she and Ebony seem to have been pretty well defended.

But really, when people say mares "NEED" vaccines etc.... It's only your opinion folks! What do you think of all the many PEOPLE round the world who choose not to use vaccines for their children? 

Some of these posts (BM & others, you know who you are) are just downright nasty. You seem to be getting a proper tizz about it, maybe it would be better if you don't read the thread if you don't like what you see? You seem to be implying you're all waiting to say "told you so" if things go wrong. Maybe you're secretly hoping they will so you can feel REALLY smug.

The "don't come crying here if..." comments are really vindictive. Ugh.

It's a shame more people aren't like Rhino and Spring Feather, who disagree with the OP but still wish well and don't resort to name-calling and spite.

On a happier note, I'm very glad you're still posting QB. It's all very exciting. 

Click to expand...


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## Sarah W (11 October 2011)

Bump. Literally.


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## Queenbee (11 October 2011)

Sarah W said:



			Bump. Literally. 

Click to expand...


PMSL!   Yes still a bump, no 4 legged baby fiend yet! 

Still the same as the last few days only one major change, the last couple of days there has been less movement, in addition to this, the last few days she has had less of an appetite, she is eating all/most of her tea, but only about a cake of hay at night, normally she will eat 3 or 4 cakes.  She has got access to good grazing, but this has never been a factor before that has affected her appetite at night.  In addition 4 nights ago she drank her normal amount but the last 3 days she has only drank about 1/3 of her large tub trug each night.  Finally, boy can my girl pee, she pees for England and takes ages normally, now she only pees a little bit, literally for a few seconds or so.  

Well folks, there is your update, thats the only change that I can mention at the moment...

Her pees are very short and she isn't eating much forage.


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## CeeBee (12 October 2011)

Sorry, but .......








Is it here yet?


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## Queenbee (12 October 2011)

Hi there, nothing major to report, no change this morning, I turned her out and went to work. Will be up there again in a bit so will post a proper update this evening.  Really happy though, just had a message off the daughter of the woman who used to own her, she used to ride her lots and loves her to pieces, Ebony has spent all her life from 9 months old with either them or me.  It was really lovely a couple of winters ago, they came to help me graze my fields down  and she got to see some of her old herd.  Anyway, I messaged her a few days ago to tell her the possible news and she is going to come visit Ebs with her Mum.  I'm really looking forward to it, whatever has got ebony so very chilled and loving and not the slightest bit aloof I can't wait for them to see it.  She has always been a loving horse with a big heart, but also a stroppy diva with her nose in the air if she feels like it.  She would so often prance around you in a circle, just out of sodding reach in the field and the second you move bat out of hell it away in fantastic gallop tail up and then stand stock still and snort until you moved towards her then off again!  Now the only way she canters is towards me to the gate, and this isn't just to come in.  

Anyway pointless post, shamelessly 'bigging up' my girlie, and excited and happy to be having her old owners come and see her.


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## Queenbee87 (12 October 2011)

From one Queenbee to another (although I still acknowledge that you're the original ).......................any news?


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## Kellys Heroes (12 October 2011)

Looking forwards to any news (and foaly???????)
been reading quietly, wish you, your lovely mare and handsome daddy lots of luck
K x


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## Queenbee (12 October 2011)

Hi Guys, sorry no further news, still the same, only just got in from yard 20 mins ago, she was a bit weird tonight, more vocal than normal but the very low whinny greeting if that makes sense and she is holding her head very low and just nuzzling right in, she also took to following me around the stable, just a bit of a lost soul tonight, pretty much eating next to nothing of her hay, only the very odd mouthful but she seems to be keeping condition so not worried.  Didn't get to see her pee tonight so unable to comment on how long she took over it.  Took a couple of healthy scrapes at her tummy and looked a bit bewildered at her uber massive bed!  Wasn't able to spend much time with her or take pics though because I had YO's ponies to muck out as she wasn't feeling that well so I thought I'd be the good Samaritan and help her out.  Bit shattered now, but staying awake to go and check her at 11.  Promise will post pics tomorrow for you all


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## Spring Feather (12 October 2011)

It's probably nothing and true the occasional mare can be like this late term but do keep a close eye on her if she's reduced her water and food consumption.  All of my broodmares eat voraciously right up until just a few hours prior to foaling.  Their water and hay intake usually increases a huge amount in the weeks leading up to foaling.  If your mare is urinating less then it will possibly be down to her not drinking so much and although this can happen in some mares I'd keep a close eye on her as impactions can occur with a little more ease at this stage of the game.


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## Queenbee (13 October 2011)

Spring Feather said:



			It's probably nothing and true the occasional mare can be like this late term but do keep a close eye on her if she's reduced her water and food consumption.  All of my broodmares eat voraciously right up until just a few hours prior to foaling.  Their water and hay intake usually increases a huge amount in the weeks leading up to foaling.  If your mare is urinating less then it will possibly be down to her not drinking so much and although this can happen in some mares I'd keep a close eye on her as impactions can occur with a little more ease at this stage of the game.
		
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Hi SF, thanks for that, Its good to know, I will keep an eye on her.  Its not that she is urinating less, it is more that she has increased the frequency of her urinations and they are shorter (possibly because she has not got as much room)  She has also gone out on her new paddock and I suspect the water content in the grass is better than the other one which was grazed down.  She is drinking a fair amount but 4 or 5 nights ago she came in and had drunk the whole lot nearly by 11 o'clock so I topped it up, it was still the same the next day.  I did notice she was sneakilly eating the straw tonight so she is probably getting more down her neck than i thought   And she has absolutely no problem polishing off her alfalfa and outshine when she comes in.  There is still as much poo, same consistency and wet as ever (ho hum!) but she is not restless and box walking so far easier to muck out. 

She was sooooo tired tonight bless her, but something slightly quirky in her behaviour that I can't quite put my finger on. her vulva was relaxed but not sure what it will be like in the morning, and no change to teats.  She has always been sensitive and wont let you touch her poll or ears but as the days go on she is turning into a dope on a rope (without the rope)  I had an ear in each hand and she just snuggled...  (perhaps alfalfa a has wacky backy in it )  If it wasn't for the fact that she prances lightly next to me when I lead her out to the field and then has a little canter to her favourite spot each morning and the fact that her ears are pricked up and alert looking out of the stable, I would almost worry, but she is fine, just very chilled and tired in the stable.  Bless her   Well, off for a wee bit of shut eye before my next night visit.

Night all


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## Queenbee (13 October 2011)

Sorry folks, no news as yet, but I just had to post, I  opened up the thread so I could copy the picture of ben lying down, wanted to print it out for my office desk and the thread opened on the first post and I saw this:



queenbee said:



			Hello all  (<<<<a few smiley faces to soften you up)

OK so ebony update, will keep it short and sweet 

Click to expand...


Had to chuckle   'short and sweet'  170 posts and 12'000 views later   

Just made me laugh 

Will update with pics tonight I promise


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## leflynn (13 October 2011)

Everytime I see a new post from you I think there's more excitement and a small furry foalie might have popped out! Cor the suspense


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## Queenbee (13 October 2011)

Hi all,

A very quick update because I am shattered and I stink so its shower and a nap for me, still no foal, but really narky tonight with her tummy while eating and lots of tail swishing,  She can still raise her tail for a scratch but she there wasn't as much resistance when I lifted it (although this could just be my imagination) no major change anywhere.  But a few pics, these are comparisons of her teats over the last month

Sept 4th






Oct 11th






Tonight

















If they don't bag up, can they wax, I assumed not so what is that stuff on her teats?  I confess to never really having paid much attention to them before now

Side pic tonight







Bum







oh, and still no foal


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## Queenbee87 (13 October 2011)

Hurry up foalie (if you're in there!!)


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## Queenbee (13 October 2011)

Queenbee87 said:



			Hurry up foalie (if you're in there!!)
		
Click to expand...


Thats just it, I feel movement, she is 'rather large' and her weight is hanging low, she is narky with her tummy etc and her temperament has completely changed, she is so chilled.  But, she isn't getting larger, gut instinct still says yes, but keep doubting it.  It will be 343 days on sunday although I heard that the fertilised egg can float for up to 2 weeks before it attaches...


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## Sarah W (13 October 2011)

Oh good - will be up early on Sunday for the Korean GP so can also watch out for an update


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## Kellys Heroes (13 October 2011)

Oh Ebony you are keeping us guessing!!!
K x


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## frozzy (13 October 2011)

The mare has wax.
A small amount but wax none the less. My mare only ever shows a small amount of wax (if at all)
I would reckon foalie 24/48 hours.


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## dominobrown (13 October 2011)

frozzy said:



			The mare has wax.
A small amount but wax none the less. My mare only ever shows a small amount of wax (if at all)
I would reckon foalie 24/48 hours.
		
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Exciting


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## nicnag (13 October 2011)

Our mare waxed and we watched her avidly for nearly a fortnight before she eventually dropped! she is standard that way, really likes to create a build up!


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## Hells Bells (13 October 2011)

Very exciting!

I know its not bagging up as such, but the teats look a different shape, and the wax...would be interesting to hear what that is if anyone knows? (Ive not witnessed any pregnant mares before!) 

Any ideas?


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## Queenbee (14 October 2011)

gg1986 said:



			Very exciting!

I know its not bagging up as such, but the teats look a different shape, and the wax...would be interesting to hear what that is if anyone knows? (Ive not witnessed any pregnant mares before!) 

Any ideas?
		
Click to expand...


Still no foalie guys.

I thought they looked slightly more fleshy not quite so shrivelled, but only minimally.  But can a horse wax up without bagging up, thats the question?  I really thought that didn't happen.  If not what could it be?  I'm going to try and get my hands in there later   could just be some dust and nastiness and we are all getting excited over nothing!  They were still the same this morning, again no change, but she did seem a bit tucked up, although she did used to be tucked up every morning I turned her out in the past so not phased by this.

Does anyone know if a horse can wax up without bagging up?


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## Queenbee (14 October 2011)

frozzy said:



			The mare has wax.
A small amount but wax none the less. My mare only ever shows a small amount of wax (if at all)
I would reckon foalie 24/48 hours.
		
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Frozzy, does your mare bag up too or does she look like the pics?


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## Natch (14 October 2011)

queenbee said:



			Does anyone have any suggestions re: feed, weight etc I don't want her to get too 'ribby'
		
Click to expand...

Have a chat with one of the feed companies' nutritionalists over the phone 



queenbee said:



			It will be 343 days on sunday although I heard that the fertilised egg can float for up to 2 weeks before it attaches...
		
Click to expand...

Horses do really weird things with their conceptus, and that'll all be taken into account in the day count I think. The bundle of cells that will become the foetus/foal bounces around for a bit, gets stuck and puts out some sucker-type things, then the mare's immune system says sod that and breaks them off, bounces around for a bit more before finally, quite a long time after fertilisation, decides to settle down and form a placenta 

just another bit of trivia from theuselessknowledgebank.co.uk! 



queenbee said:



			Still no foalie guys.

I thought they looked slightly more fleshy not quite so shrivelled, but only minimally.  But can a horse wax up without bagging up, thats the question?  I really thought that didn't happen.  If not what could it be?  I'm going to try and get my hands in there later   could just be some dust and nastiness and we are all getting excited over nothing!  They were still the same this morning, again no change, but she did seem a bit tucked up, although she did used to be tucked up every morning I turned her out in the past so not phased by this.

Does anyone know if a horse can wax up without bagging up?
		
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I think she looks waxed up, and that I've seen quite a few mares waxed up but not very bagged up. Has Kerilli posted on here at all? I think her pictures of her mare's udder when she was expecting (and ended up being quite a wait!) were very similar. If you are friends with her on facebook have a mooch at her photos of Katy.

I've only just come across this thread and will be following it eagerly now!


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## Queenbee (14 October 2011)

Naturally said:



			Have a chat with one of the feed companies' nutritionalists over the phone 



Horses do really weird things with their conceptus, and that'll all be taken into account in the day count I think. The bundle of cells that will become the foetus/foal bounces around for a bit, gets stuck and puts out some sucker-type things, then the mare's immune system says sod that and breaks them off, bounces around for a bit more before finally, quite a long time after fertilisation, decides to settle down and form a placenta 

just another bit of trivia from theuselessknowledgebank.co.uk! 



I think she looks waxed up, and that I've seen quite a few mares waxed up but not very bagged up. Has Kerilli posted on here at all? I think her pictures of her mare's udder when she was expecting (and ended up being quite a wait!) were very similar. If you are friends with her on facebook have a mooch at her photos of Katy.

I've only just come across this thread and will be following it eagerly now!
		
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oooh thank you, that's useful to know.  Was telling myself it couldn't be wax but interesting that people are thinking it is.  Bless her, she never lies down but YO caught her flat out last night, don't think she was comfy though, she was shuffling around a bit and got back up then slept standing up, head hanging over the door switching her resting foot  tired bunny 

Will PM Kerilli and ask what her name is on FB or if she could post a pic on here for comparison.

Have 10 days off after today so I am going to be like a mother hen and ben is going to do some work...


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## Emilieu (14 October 2011)

Hooves crossed that foalie comes during your holidays QB  x


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## ischa (14 October 2011)

Queenbee , horses can wax up without a bag 
Then they either bag up the day before or even when foal hits the ground 
To me it does look like wax and means foaling is  imminent
Try adding coco to feed some people said it old wifes time 
but it worked for my mare also have some replacement milk in first aid box incase she doesn't 
Develope any milk at all


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## ischa (14 October 2011)

P.s do take in consideration that waxing can happen weeks before , it's still not a good indication 
What for other signs to


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## Cortez (14 October 2011)

FWIW, my mares (I used to run a studfarm, kept between 18 - 22 broodmares) often "cleaned" the day before they foaled, that is, most pooped like mad just before foaling.


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## ischa (14 October 2011)

Watch for other signs I mean , (bloody phone )


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## Queenbee (14 October 2011)

Emilieu said:



			Hooves crossed that foalie comes during your holidays QB  x
		
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cheers my lovely, luckily I still have another 3 weeks after this to take and my boss is really understanding so if needs be I will be able to take more time off when/if it arrives


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## Queenbee (14 October 2011)

ischa said:



			P.s do take in consideration that waxing can happen weeks before , it's still not a good indication 
What for other signs to
		
Click to expand...


I am watching everything in a hawk like manner


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## crellow4 (14 October 2011)

Mares are pretty sneaky, they can foal without wax or bagging up - I think they TRY to catch us out. I have experience of foaling my own mares (9 to date) and am not far from you if you need a hand at all. Please remember the 'normal' gestation is anything between 320 and 370 days, good luck x


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## Queenbee (14 October 2011)

ischa said:



			Queenbee , horses can wax up without a bag 
Then they either bag up the day before or even when foal hits the ground 
To me it does look like wax and means foaling is  imminent
Try adding coco to feed some people said it old wifes time 
but it worked for my mare also have some replacement milk in first aid box incase she doesn't 
Develope any milk at all
		
Click to expand...


Ischa, I am a dippy cow, sorry, I saw your other posts but missed this!  Yes I remember hearing something about cocoa, it rings a bell, thank you for that and good to have it confirmed that they can wax before they bag up.  A bit of googling and a trip to tesco in way to the yard I think


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## Winklepoker (14 October 2011)

Am i the only one thinking that if the mare has not been intentionally covered and you have noticed all of the mentioned changes, it would be wise to have her swabbed?  What on earth could you be dealing with if she is not in foal (that would be my concern).

Sorry to dampen excitement somewhat - I hope its good news for you and out pops a beautiful coloured baby.


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## sarahann1 (14 October 2011)

Been lurking following this thread for a while, just wanted to say all the best of luck Queenbee, if its not a foaly in there I'll be very surprised! Please keep updating and ignore the bashers, your mare looks like shes in great health


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## Wagtail (14 October 2011)

Can't wait to find out what she has (as she really looks in foal to me).


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## Queenbee (14 October 2011)

crellow4 said:



			Mares are pretty sneaky, they can foal without wax or bagging up - I think they TRY to catch us out. I have experience of foaling my own mares (9 to date) and am not far from you if you need a hand at all. Please remember the 'normal' gestation is anything between 320 and 370 days, good luck x
		
Click to expand...

Crellow thank you that means a lot 

I feel pretty lucky, what with the vet a stones throw away, and YO's hubby and my OH being a farmer, If things go wrong during the foaling (if there is one) we can be on the ball there and then.  I have done so much reading lately about what is bad and what is good,  it is scary but really good to know what you are looking for, if she is in foal and something does go wrong I will know what to look for.  I become a bit obsessive over things, when I get hooked on a subject I just read, Honestly I read a book about making Port and Sherry and the history of the drinks, cover to cover and found it really interesting (I can be an information freak).  But back to my point, oh yeah, ALL THE THINGS THAT CAN GO WRONG,   however I have stashed that away so I don't think about it, but I know that I will recognise signs if something is up and it will trigger a memory in my brain.  I have a list of all the checks that I would need to do, if and when there is a foal, all the telephone numbers.  I feel pretty cool about the whole thing now, but I actually think that if this had been a planned pregnancy I would be a bag of nerves, questioning my sanity and why did I chose to put my mare in foal, and what if x,y,z happens.  Strangely enought I think it is the simple fact that this was not a conscious decision in the first place is helping me to completely relax about it and enjoy it for what it is.  But an offer like that means a lot, I really appreciate it   Thank you 


*group hug everyone*  I am getting a bit soppy


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## Queenbee (14 October 2011)

Winklepoker said:



			Am i the only one thinking that if the mare has not been intentionally covered and you have noticed all of the mentioned changes, it would be wise to have her swabbed?  What on earth could you be dealing with if she is not in foal (that would be my concern).

Sorry to dampen excitement somewhat - I hope its good news for you and out pops a beautiful coloured baby.
		
Click to expand...

WP, Ebony was given the clear for breeding, she was swobbed scanned and given a course of antibiotics (think thats what I stuck her with) when I was going to AI her.  Since then she has never been near a boy other than Ben the only others have been over the fence.  Ben was with his mum for the first 6 months of his life then came straight to me,  There were a couple of mares in the field with us until he was 7 months, other than that he has only been in a field with ebony.  I think it can   be said this ismost likely not the result of an infection.  In addition ebony has a shiney coat, good appetite, good gum colour and shiney eyes, she is alert in the mornings and bounces into her field then has a good trot and canter down to her favourite corner.  I am not unduly worried that she is 'ill' for whatever reason, neither is the vet that I have been confering with, who has not seen her but has been swamped with pictures, and knows my mare of old.  But it was a fair observation to make


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## Queenbee (14 October 2011)

Wagtail said:



			Can't wait to find out what she has (as she really looks in foal to me).
		
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Aww thank you   OH not pleased, I am spending so much time at the yard, will be even less pleased when he hears I am staying there in a caravan  on foal watch


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## frozzy (14 October 2011)

QB the mare that produces little wax does  however have a bag like a jersey cow for two months before. (Incidentally she is also called Queen Bee!!) This year we had no wax whatsoever, so she was turned out as usual through the day at 9.30am, I went to work where we have no phone signal (Wanlock head highest village in Scotland) and came down at 12 noon to an abundance of phone messages. The crafty old witch had waited until she was turned out in the company of the stallion and our other mare, and started grazing. She stood and stretched her  head up as far as it would go as I watched her. I thought what a strange thing to do! Once everyone had disappeared she promptly lay down and spat out a colt (black very nice so can forgive her all bar one other have been fillies), this was witnessed by a neighbour who zipped up to my friends house up the road. My friend had just got in, put a dippy egg on for her granddaughter and they had just sat down when neighbour arrived at door. In all from putting out in paddock was 20 minutes!!She has never been known to foal during the day and has always been a quick worker but this one took the biscuit (or the dippy egg which child never got!!) Stallion and other mare went back to grazing!
We have another mare who was due to foal around 7th June who still hasnt foaled!! She is still in foal, vet put his hand in and said probably another two months. Now what we THINK has happened there is that the mare (who ran with stallion all winter) slipped the foal around December and was covered again quietly!! She also shows little sign. Her first foal was dropped on concrete. She was in a 60 x60 shed with her buddy and all bar 3 ft at the gate had deep straw but obviously thought concrete was a preferable place.
Yes another sign of imminent foaling (in any normal birth) is the passing of droppings which get smaller and fewer the closer to birth it gets.


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## Queenbee (14 October 2011)

frozzy said:



			QB the mare that produces little wax does  however have a bag like a jersey cow for two months before. (Incidentally she is also called Queen Bee!!) This year we had no wax whatsoever, so she was turned out as usual through the day at 9.30am, I went to work where we have no phone signal (Wanlock head highest village in Scotland) and came down at 12 noon to an abundance of phone messages. The crafty old witch had waited until she was turned out in the company of the stallion and our other mare, and started grazing. She stood and stretched her  head up as far as it would go as I watched her. I thought what a strange thing to do! Once everyone had disappeared she promptly lay down and spat out a colt (black very nice so can forgive her all bar one other have been fillies), this was witnessed by a neighbour who zipped up to my friends house up the road. My friend had just got in, put a dippy egg on for her granddaughter and they had just sat down when neighbour arrived at door. In all from putting out in paddock was 20 minutes!!She has never been known to foal during the day and has always been a quick worker but this one took the biscuit (or the dippy egg which child never got!!) Stallion and other mare went back to grazing!
We have another mare who was due to foal around 7th June who still hasnt foaled!! She is still in foal, vet put his hand in and said probably another two months. Now what we THINK has happened there is that the mare (who ran with stallion all winter) slipped the foal around December and was covered again quietly!! She also shows little sign. Her first foal was dropped on concrete. She was in a 60 x60 shed with her buddy and all bar 3 ft at the gate had deep straw but obviously thought concrete was a preferable place.
Yes another sign of imminent foaling (in any normal birth) is the passing of droppings which get smaller and fewer the closer to birth it gets.

Click to expand...

Bleeding Hell frozzy, its all fun and games at your yard LOL With regards to ebony, I generally look the other way when she poos, she has always come in and pooed solid then it has turned to sloppy cow pat the longer she is in  having said that she is more poo like nowadays with only a couple of sloppy ones all night   but no real noticable change in size and frequency...

*whispers 'I don't think my QB is normal'*


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## Spring Feather (14 October 2011)

She doesn't look like she'll be ready to foal in 24/48 hours to me I'm afraid.  She looks weeks away going by the photo of her belly shape, of course the shape could change in a matter of days being that Ebony seems an odd one .  Did you feel the stuff coming out of her teats?  Is it crystallised waxing stuck to them or liquid?  I don't use wax as a reliable guide to when they'll foal as mares can wax up weeks before foaling; belly shape, vulva slackening and bag/teat size are better.  Once these other signs are in place then I milk test and the readings are what I use to better pinpoint foaling times.

A couple of things: Embryos take till around Day 17 to attach, that's normal and it still means it's Day 17 of the pregnancy 

Sterile string??  What are your plans for that?


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## Queenbee (14 October 2011)

Spring Feather said:



			She doesn't look like she'll be ready to foal in 24/48 hours to me I'm afraid.  She looks weeks away going by the photo of her belly shape, of course the shape could change in a matter of days being that Ebony seems an odd one .  Did you feel the stuff coming out of her teats?  Is it crystallised waxing stuck to them or liquid?  I don't use wax as a reliable guide to when they'll foal as mares can wax up weeks before foaling; belly shape, vulva slackening and bag/teat size are better.  Once these other signs are in place then I milk test and the readings are what I use to better pinpoint foaling times.

A couple of things: Embryos take till around Day 17 to attach, that's normal and it still means it's Day 17 of the pregnancy 

Sterile string??  What are your plans for that?
		
Click to expand...



Hi SF 

Nope, she was a real tetch around her tummy last night, very agitated with it while eating so just took the pictures but I intend to 'get in there' later and cop a feel   It seems to be hard, certainly didn;t see anything dripping, so I can assume it is crystalised wax or something cant I?  Will have a proper investigate later though.  Her vulva relaxes more in the evening, but then is tight when she goes out, so I don't know if this is probably more how she is normally.  Thanks for clearing that up about the embryos, I must confess I thought it would add days on, but actually it makes sense that the count is still the same, the count is from fertilisation, not attachment of the embryo, me just being dippy.

Sterile string   oh you are going to be proud of me, google and you can get some cracking good ideas and tips, for sterile string I have a sealed pot of dental floss 

forgot to say, I agree, she doesn't look dropped enought to me yet.


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## Spring Feather (14 October 2011)

queenbee said:



			It seems to be hard, certainly didn;t see anything dripping, so I can assume it is crystalised wax or something cant I?
		
Click to expand...

Yes that sounds like wax but don't use it as much of a sign for figuring out the foal date because it often isn't much of one except to let you know that she is getting closer. 




			Thanks for clearing that up about the embryos, I must confess I thought it would add days on, but actually it makes sense that the count is still the same, the count is from fertilisation, not attachment of the embryo, me just being dippy.
		
Click to expand...

It confuses lots of people, you're not alone 




			Sterile string   oh you are going to be proud of me, google and you can get some cracking good ideas and tips, for sterile string I have a sealed pot of dental floss 

Click to expand...

Oh golly now you have me wondering even more!   Just so long as you aren't anticipating her having a caesarian or something quite as dramatic!


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## Queenbee (14 October 2011)

Spring Feather said:



			Yes that sounds like wax but don't use it as much of a sign for figuring out the foal date because it often isn't much of one except to let you know that she is getting closer. 


It confuses lots of people, you're not alone 


Oh golly now you have me wondering even more!   Just so long as you aren't anticipating her having a caesarian or something quite as dramatic!
		
Click to expand...

I was more confused about the fact that there was no bag, but wax, I really never thought that waxing could occur without bagging up, but to be honest, I really never thought about it.

With regards to the string, I decided to look up lots of information on foaling kits, some were pretty basic and I wanted to make sure that I wasn't missing anything, one great tip I found was that someone always kept some waxed dental floss for tying off the cord because it was a cheap way of ensuring it was sterile.  I even got a brand new clean box to put it in.  OH has got a sterile roll of proper cord to tie up the placenta for me although he said to just use bailing twine but I am now a bit OCD on the whole sterile thing, mum swiped some gloves from work (naughtly mummy, she is a Health Visitor)  OH has some new sterile 'long gloves' for me from his batch for his cows.  We are pretty well done on the kit.  I haven't forked out on test strips but then, there is sod all to test  

One thing I am umming and ahhing about is her tail, I am keeping it brushed and sprayed but I realise it is not 'clean'  I don't want to fuss her by plaiting it, although she really doesn't seem to care at the moment, but on the other I do because I want it out of the way for her.  She is constantly swishing it and I would not like  her to not be able to do that (she likes to feel as un fussed as possibe)  YO said just leave it as is, that there was no gunk on her mares tail when she foaled, but I want to provide the best birthing situation for the foal, will leaving the tail down and natural increase any risk of infection for a foal?  My head is telling me that it will and to plait it.


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## Spring Feather (14 October 2011)

I plait the top of my mares tails when they are really close to foaling but when I know they aren't going to in the next 24 hours.  Once they hit the magical number for all guns blazing then I plait the bottom of their tails.  I leave my mares tails down (I do not tie them up) and once everything is expelled and I've cleaned off their hind legs, that's when I let the tails flow freely again.  Tails can get in a gunky mess if they're left loose and even plaited ones can need a shampoo the following day.  Tails do get in the way when you need to go in to reposition the foal so I wouldn't leave a tail loose.

Every year my foaling kit gets smaller and smaller with all these useless items . A stainless steel bucket of iodine water is what I use to sterilise my hands, I find gloves are more trouble than they're worth.  I never tie afterbirth up with rope or string anymore, it's much easier to tie it onto itself.  I haven't ever cut an umbilical cord in any foaling.  For any umbilical cords that are tough and don't snap off, I straddle my fingers firmly around the umbilicus, kneel on the umbilical cord further away from the foal and nudge the foal to move and that's always worked.  I have everything I could possibly need for emergencies but I don't cart everything down to the stables every time I see a mare starting to foal.


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## Ellies_mum2 (15 October 2011)

Any news yet?


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## Thistle (15 October 2011)

You can get swimming pool test strips from ebay, only £7.99, they give you a very good indication of when foaling is imminent.


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## Ibblebibble (15 October 2011)

QB where are you?? do we have a baby yet????


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## Queenbee (15 October 2011)

Ibblebibble said:



			QB where are you?? do we have a baby yet????

Click to expand...

Hi Guys, really sorry not been on here, no foal yet, been playing up the yard today and kept getting delayed from leaving, as a result I am shattered!  AGAIN!


No major changes she is still really really tired, the second she comes in and eats her tea.  I think her udder is a bit bigger (more distended) but no bagging up still.  Possibly her bum is a little more scrawny looking too.  Don't think we will have anything tonight. we are 343 days tomorrow   YO is checking her at 11.30 for me so I can nap a bit longer, didn't fancy caravan tonight so came home.  Her old owners came up to see her today but I think she was a little overwhelmed with so many people in her field because she popped the electric fence and ran off down the other end of the field with ben   could have swung for her because as soon as they left she came creeping up to the fence for mummy cuddles and went to the gate to be let into her paddock again!  Anyhow, all pretty quiet on the whole today.  will update with pictures tomorrow X


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## Ibblebibble (15 October 2011)

thanks for the update QB, was starting to wonder if you were up to your elbows in latex gloves or something
could you have a quiet word with Ebony and ask her to produce before the weekend as i go away then , don't know if there's internet access or not


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## Ellies_mum2 (15 October 2011)

Thanks for the update queenbee. 

Wonder if she will produce when you least expect her to  like tonight


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## FionaM12 (15 October 2011)

Very glad of the update. Had been thinking of you and Ebony. 

Have a nice rest. xx


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## Natch (16 October 2011)

... (baby) bump!


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## PingPongPony (16 October 2011)

Is it here yet?


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## Queenbee (16 October 2011)

Ibblebibble said:



			thanks for the update QB, was starting to wonder if you were up to your elbows in latex gloves or something
could you have a quiet word with Ebony and ask her to produce before the weekend as i go away then , don't know if there's internet access or not

Click to expand...

No baby yet   Thank you all for your well wishing  

OMG Ibble, thats serious deprivation there!   No foal this morning but had a peek and her teets are relaxed, a bit more fleshy and not so wrinkled, she was quite messy last night and lay down again, also her vulva was not tight this morning, of late it has been relaxed when she comes in and tight again in the morning, she is out in the field at the moment and Im in having coffee with YO and writing you this update.  Probably plugging in the caravan tonight, will be starting my vigil proper and sitting there with my gloves, iodine and pot of waxed dental floss at the ready LOL   Have camera so will take some pics later when she comes in so you can see the changes.  She ate quite a lot of hay last night aswell and is currently happily grazing in her field.


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## FionaM12 (16 October 2011)

This is so exciting! Thankyou for sharing.


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## Queenbee (16 October 2011)

P.S.  just saw we have gone over 16'000 views      

*aren't we all a bit obsessive *

Thank you all so much for all your interest in our journey, I have said it before but feel I need to say it again, it is really amazing how you are all loving this as much as we are here


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## FionaM12 (16 October 2011)

When the time comes, how would Ebony feel about a coach party arriving? Or possibly several...


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## Ibblebibble (16 October 2011)

QB this is more exciting than christmas!!


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## WelshRuby (16 October 2011)

The first thing I think about when I get up in the morning is has Ebony had a baby yet so I'm definately obsessed!


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## Queenbee (16 October 2011)

She would love it Fiona,   If I'd known there would be so much interest I would have rigged up  a live stream cctv for everyone.   Could have sold subscriptions  to it!  


Ibble, I agree, christmas is going to be sooo boring in comparison.  Perhaps if its a colt, we should call it 'the new messiah!'


P.S. everyone Ebony says 'hi' X


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## Twizzel (16 October 2011)

The suspense is killing me I want to come take pics of babies!!! Hopefully see you and the madam next week


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## FionaM12 (16 October 2011)

I once heard James Herriot in an interview saying that he'd tried to keep his identity and location secret. But eventually, he'd go out to help a cow with a difficult calfing in a field way up on the moors, and a coach-load of tourists with cameras would arrive.

So don't be surprised!


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## Queenbee (16 October 2011)

Twizzel said:



			The suspense is killing me I want to come take pics of babies!!! Hopefully see you and the madam next week 

Click to expand...

Can't wait hun xx Will be lovely to catch up, I know the beastie ben and ebony will love to c you for cuddles and pic's xx



Sov-n-Dom said:



			The first thing I think about when I get up in the morning is has Ebony had a baby yet so I'm definately obsessed!
		
Click to expand...

Ohhhh you've got it bad hun, have you talked to your doctor about it?  

I think that if I had got CCTV there would probably be a lot of broken relationships by now!  LOL!

*Whispers: Ebony's thread only has 4 stars, I feel sure that Ebony is worth 5 stars don't you?  *


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## Queenbee (16 October 2011)

FionaM12 said:



			I once heard James Herriot in an interview saying that he'd tried to keep his identity and location secret. But eventually, he'd go out to help a cow with a difficult calfing in a field way up on the moors, and a coach-load of tourists with cameras would arrive.

So don't be surprised!
		
Click to expand...

Well, anyone can come, but they have to turn up on cammels, there is a star in the sky they can follow, but frankinsence and myrrh won't get you a viewing, only gold, carrots and sweedes   lol x


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## Queenbee (16 October 2011)

queenbee said:



			Well, anyone can come, but they have to turn up on cammels, there is a star in the sky they can follow, but frankinsence and myrrh won't get you a viewing, only gold, carrots and sweedes   lol x
		
Click to expand...

sorry 'camels' stupid emily!!


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## Kellys Heroes (16 October 2011)

Will silver, polos and an apple do????? 
K x


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## Queenbee (16 October 2011)

KellysHeroes said:



			Will silver, polos and an apple do????? 
K x
		
Click to expand...

As long as its solid silver, ben can have the polos and ebs the apples   if thats what you are bringing, you can come.

Look into the sky for the shining bright star and saddle up your camel   will put the kettle on for you


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## Ellies_mum2 (16 October 2011)

Any more news yet?  


You must get fed up reading same comments  Sorry 




Oh and I agree this thread is worth 5 stars so I've voted


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## Hells Bells (16 October 2011)

...what about now?! 

Hope youre holding up ok in the caravan! x


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## JessandCharlie (16 October 2011)

*Whispers*

I think Ebony needs a marestare cam (or similar, I'm not fussy ) so we can all spy on her  

J&C


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## Queenbee (16 October 2011)

No changes to report yet.  I can't upload my pictures to my computer because I took them to the camera and not the memory card (I left it behind in the computer!) and I can't find the sodding cable although no real changes still. Come on though, she was never really going to pop one out on the golden 'predicted date' was she.  Awkward little mare!

Oh and bens bum has GROWN!  I popped him in tonight and its soooo much higher than hers!  When the hell did that happen?!  He is bum high again now, he is 15.2 at the withers so will have to measure him when they shoot up.  Wooo hoo!!


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## Rudolph's Red Nose (16 October 2011)

Sov-n-Dom said:



			The first thing I think about when I get up in the morning is has Ebony had a baby yet so I'm definately obsessed!
		
Click to expand...

Me too !!


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## Ellies_mum2 (17 October 2011)

Well? 



How was the caravan?  















Any news yet


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## Natch (17 October 2011)

erm.. cough cough, update please! (or perhaps you're cooing over new foal?)


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## Spudlet (17 October 2011)

As they say in Shrek the Third, where's the baby?


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## jojo5 (17 October 2011)

Hallooooooo . . . . .?


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## FionaM12 (17 October 2011)

Twenty-four hours of silence! 

I can't stand it.


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## Dustygirl (17 October 2011)

Update needed please!!!  I can't log off until I know!!!!


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## caithness_1 (17 October 2011)

im up ridiculously early tomorrow..but still just had to have a wee peak in here before i go to bed  any updates?


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## FionaM12 (17 October 2011)

caithness_1 said:



			im up ridiculously early tomorrow..but still just had to have a wee peak in here before i go to bed  any updates?
		
Click to expand...

All silent since yesterday.


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## Fools Motto (18 October 2011)

Another waiting for news
Fingers crossed.


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## smellsofhorse (18 October 2011)

Update?


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## OldNag (18 October 2011)

blucanoo1990 said:



			Update?
		
Click to expand...

Me too!  I check every morning to see if any news


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## FaldingwoodLivery (18 October 2011)

Have just read this thread from start to finish, and now I'm well and truly hooked! After such regular updates from queenbee can we assume her recent absence imeans SOMETHING has happened/happening. I do so hope its good news. I'll be refreshing this page all bloody day now!


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## jessikaGinger (18 October 2011)

I haven't posted yet but followed everyday, i hope you get a nice little foal like i did with my suprise 

I was unaware my mare was pregnant still rode everyday fed less as i thought she was fat & didn't get jabs etc, both mare and foal are perfect (i did get the vet to the foal immediatly for jabs)

Good luck i hope the silence is a sign of pictures to come


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## LisW (18 October 2011)

Keep hopefully checking back for updates. Come on Ebony!


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## FionaM12 (18 October 2011)

Of course, QB's internet connection might just be down... 

Fingers crossed that everything's okay.


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## Ellies_mum2 (18 October 2011)

I'm guessing that either that caravan is way comfier than she was expecting or Ebony has produced a foal *crosses fingers for piccies*


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## elephant (18 October 2011)

Arghhh can't bear this silence, I am pacing like an expectant dad! C'mon QB please release us from this state of nerves and update us xx


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## JenHunt (18 October 2011)

any news yet?


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## Ibblebibble (18 October 2011)

omg I don't know whether to be excited or worried now at no update


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## jessikaGinger (18 October 2011)

Ibblebibble Re: Update, for those who are interested

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
omg I don't know whether to be excited or worried now at no update  

^I was thinking the same


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## leflynn (18 October 2011)

Might just be QB doesn't have the net in the caravan, or her phone died - would rather it was a foal that caused the silence!!!!


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## Ellies_mum2 (18 October 2011)

leflynn said:



			Might just be QB doesn't have the net in the caravan, or her phone died - would rather it was a foal that caused the silence!!!!
		
Click to expand...



Definitely the same here


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## mattie mistletoe (18 October 2011)

Ive been following this thread since the start, not posted before but considering I'm always checking in a morning just thought I'd say......










Any news yet??????? X x


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## PolarSkye (18 October 2011)

Yes, worrying now . . . c'mon QB, please let us know what's going on - good or bad!  All thinking of you and Ebony.

P


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## FionaM12 (18 October 2011)

I'll have to go to work in an hour and won't be back till tomorrow afternoon. No internet at work! How will I cope?


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## Ellies_mum2 (18 October 2011)

FionaM12 said:



			I'll have to go to work in an hour and won't be back till tomorrow afternoon. No internet at work! How will I cope? 

Click to expand...



Give someone your mobile number so they can text the updates


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## elephant (18 October 2011)

Arrggghhhh no news.....hope all is ok


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## Black_Horse_White (18 October 2011)

Come on! We are all on pins here!


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## rhino (18 October 2011)

Her profile says she was on here last night at 7.30pm. Hope all is well


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## Kat (18 October 2011)

queenbee said:



			Ibble, I agree, christmas is going to be sooo boring in comparison.  Perhaps if its a colt, we should call it 'the new messiah!'
		
Click to expand...

I just popped on for an update, and can't believe there is nothing   

But I loved the name idea, if you go for Messiah as a show name how about Brian as a stable name? As in "He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy".


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## Bertolie (18 October 2011)

I haven't posted on this thread before but I am gripped!!

The suspense is killing me....c'mon QB we NEED to know whats happening!


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## Queenbee (18 October 2011)

Oh my god, I feel so awful, look at all your lovely expectant messages...  Bad emily !  I have been proper poorly sick, and then this morning I had to do an application for a job,  my friend text me to tell me you were all of a tizz wanting news on here but I had to wizz the application off before I could get on here.

No changes I am afraid, but she is really wierding me out, she looks like a 'normal' horse in the field, then when she comes in she 'relaxes' everything and lets it all hang out, she looks preggers then!  She also looks more pregnant from one side than she does on the other,  my mare is officially strange.  Owing to spending a night making friends with the toilet and shivering my ass off on the bathroom floor, I was relieved of turn out duty by YO's daughter,  I now officially love that girl!  Anyway, still feeling a bit gross and achey and still have mucking out to do.  But couldn't leave you guys in further suspense.  So no, the irritating little mare is still fat and there are no new additions, god damn her!


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## Vixen Van Debz (18 October 2011)

Bless you QB - get well soon! Would muck out for you if I could. Hope Ebs continues to be well, if odd! lol.


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## Black_Horse_White (18 October 2011)

Get well soon xx


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## Emilieu (18 October 2011)

Oh poor you, get well soon  At least ebs doesn't seem to be stressing under the combined weight of all our expectations! x


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## Ellies_mum2 (18 October 2011)

Oh no QB, Hope you feel better soon  







Oh and the awkward mare delivers the goods soon


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## misterjinglejay (18 October 2011)

Get well soon, and then squeeze Eb's really hard


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## WelshRuby (18 October 2011)

Hope you feel much better really soon


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## JenHunt (18 October 2011)

see... now I feel really mean for pestering you when you were feeling poo  

hope you feel better after a good nights sleep!


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## Ibblebibble (18 October 2011)

awww sorry to hear you have been so ill, not nice hope you feel better tomorrow after a good nights sleep.x

And although it would be nice if Eb's doesn't produce by the weekend it's ok, i've topped up me old dongle to take away with the lappy lol, hubs thinks i've gone loopy


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## Queenbee (18 October 2011)

Thank you all for your well wishes.  Still feeling a bit poorly but dragged my behind up to the yard to muck out and bring her in, still absolutely no change   but thats not too bad, I could do with feeling a bit more perky when if/it does happen.  Now come home, shivering and flakey, had tea and tummy churning again!  I hate feeling awful, I am such a bad patient   Going to heat up in the bath for a bit, YO will check her tonight and I'm only 5 mins away if anything does happen.  Thanks for all your messages guys


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## Queenbee (18 October 2011)

Ibblebibble said:



			awww sorry to hear you have been so ill, not nice hope you feel better tomorrow after a good nights sleep.x

And although it would be nice if Eb's doesn't produce by the weekend it's ok, i've topped up me old dongle to take away with the lappy lol, hubs thinks i've gone loopy

Click to expand...

My dear, I have a feeling you probably always were a little bit loopy   Have a lovely weekend


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## elephant (19 October 2011)

Awww QB hope that you are feeling better today, any change/news? lol x


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## Ibblebibble (19 October 2011)

queenbee said:



			My dear, I have a feeling you probably always were a little bit loopy   Have a lovely weekend 

Click to expand...

*snort*  i've been rumbled


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## Queenbee (19 October 2011)

Good morning my lovelies, just to let you all know that there is still no foalie,  TBH  despite ebony still swiping out like a kicking camel when I touch her side, I had pretty much talked myself out of her being in foal last night, what with there being no change still!  However, when I turned her out this morning there was a definate change in her teats but now I'm talking myself out of what i've seen there too!  Just off to give her a bit of chaff in the field so I can get a closer look.  Damned horses!

P.S. I'm feeling better today


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## flying solo (19 October 2011)

Queenbee I read this entire post at 5am this morning! I'm well and truely gripped, i'm glad your feeling better and hope all goes smoothly with ebony x


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## Amymay (19 October 2011)

queenbee said:



			Good morning my lovelies, just to let you all know that there is still no foalie,  TBH  despite ebony still swiping out like a kicking camel when I touch her side, I had pretty much talked myself out of her being in foal last night, what with there being no change still!  However, when I turned her out this morning there was a definate change in her teats but now I'm talking myself out of what i've seen there too!  Just off to give her a bit of chaff in the field so I can get a closer look.  Damned horses!

P.S. I'm feeling better today 

Click to expand...

Sorry if you've said it elsewhere - but why not have her examined??


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## Vixen Van Debz (19 October 2011)

It's all been discussed on another thread Amymay, but essentially if she is in foal, it's a beautiful accident (mare was put in with her colt who got gelded over 2 weeks beforehand). While QB has taken lots of precautions like vet advice, getting foaling kit, feeding and worming as if in foal, people on hand etc she's decided that if it happens, it'll be a wonderful surprise, but if not she and vet are happy that her horse is healthy. At least I think I've got the gist of all those discussions correct!

Glad to hear you're feeling better QB! The gastroenteritis bugs are on their way around again apparently... 80(


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## Queenbee (19 October 2011)

Vixen Van Debz said:



			It's all been discussed on another thread Amymay, but essentially if she is in foal, it's a beautiful accident (mare was put in with her colt who got gelded over 2 weeks beforehand). While QB has taken lots of precautions like vet advice, getting foaling kit, feeding and worming as if in foal, people on hand etc she's decided that if it happens, it'll be a wonderful surprise, but if not she and vet are happy that her horse is healthy. At least I think I've got the gist of all those discussions correct!

Glad to hear you're feeling better QB! The gastroenteritis bugs are on their way around again apparently... 80(
		
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Yes, thats pretty much it in a nutshell  

FS  I am glad you are enjoying the journey   Couldn't sleep last night then?  

Just been down to give her her feed, all still the same   Her teets are looking more plump but I still keep second guessing my vision LOL!


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## Amymay (19 October 2011)

But why not have the vet check if she's in foal - would take all the guessing out of it.  Plus you'll know if you have to sit up on foal watch and from when...............


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## mcrobbiena (19 October 2011)

I also agree with amymay. I would want to check if she is in foal or not so I could be feeding correctly. If she is not in foal she is horrendously over weight and if she is you might want to think about feeding her more nutrtious food as by now the foal will be using most of the food to grow. You also want to know when you start foal watch incase any problems occur which could result in the death of both. 

Am I an overly cautious human?Why has noone said this before?


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## BonneMaman (19 October 2011)

Mental isn't it, but seriously Amymay - don't go there!  Supposedly there is another thread elsewhere for those of us that think this post is either crazy or cruel and this post is just for those who want to be ladies in waiting .....


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## FionaM12 (19 October 2011)

BonneMaman said:



			Mental isn't it, but seriously Amymay - don't go there!  Supposedly there is another thread elsewhere for those of us that think this post is either crazy or cruel and this post is just for those who want to be ladies in waiting .....
		
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I think that sums it up! (Except i don't agree with the mental bit).  Whatever anyone else thinks, this is how QB chooses to handle the situation and there's no point in hassling her, it hasn't worked so far!


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## Amymay (19 October 2011)

FionaM12 said:



			Whatever anyone else thinks, this is how QB chooses to handle the situation and there's no point in hassling her, it hasn't worked so far!
		
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Seems an awful lot of hastle when sticking your hand up it's arse will give you all the answers you need.

However, of course, it's QB's perrogative.

I just wonder what she would do if, heavens forbid (and if the mare is in foal), she foals alone and there are complications, resulting in a dead foal......  Devastating.


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## ischa (19 October 2011)

Amymay , as I truly beleave this is te wrong way about doing things , and I have truly expressed my feelings on the matter , but the way me and qb doing things is completely the otherway to one another ,
As a few people on here in the same thoughts as me , 
We are all on hand if QB needs advice should she need it and wish her and her mare the best


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## Amymay (19 October 2011)

ischa said:



			Amymay, I truly beleave this is the wrong way of doing things, and I have expressed my feelings on the matter.  But the way me and QB do things is completely different to one another.

We are all on hand if QB needs advice should she need it and wish her and her mare the best
		
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Doing things the same way can be terribly boring - so no harm in being different.  And it's great to hear that there are a few of you who live close by to lend a hand if needed.

I shall wait with baited breath for the final result.

QB - if you have any idea of when the mare was covered, do your maths.  It's probably time to start watching her overnight.


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## ischa (19 October 2011)

I do believe herself and YO are on foal watch Inc nights


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## Spring Feather (19 October 2011)

mcrobbiena said:



			Am I an overly cautious human?Why has noone said this before?
		
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We have   QB has decided that she wants it to be an exciting surprise and although I find nothing about this exciting and I do worry a lot for this mare I also realise that it's QBs prerogative to go down this route and it's fruitless to continue to raise genuine concerns.  What we have is a mare who may be in foal or may not be in foal and the best any of us can do is to be there as a shoulder for QB should she need it.


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## mcrobbiena (19 October 2011)

But isn't the mares welfare more important than putting someones nose out of joint??Its not just the foal that could (and truely hope it wont come to this) be in trouble, but the mare is too. This makes me soo cross. For all it would take to get it checked out why would someone not do this? To think of the people who have done the very best, no expense spared to mares and foals and lost one or both and she doesn't have the respect for her horse to get it checked out.


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## ischa (19 October 2011)

I can understand why this is a big deal to you mcrobbiena , as it I to me , but the fact it is QB horse and not ours it her Right to do as she pleases , and no matter how much we or you go on About it , it's not going to change the result as mare is to far gone , I do believe vets on hand as well , as a few other people who have delivered cattle etc 
(please correct me QB if I'm wrong ) 
All we can do if offer advice and help to those who are near by to her , should anything go wrong


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## Winklepoker (19 October 2011)

mcrobbiena said:



			I also agree with amymay. I would want to check if she is in foal or not so I could be feeding correctly. If she is not in foal she is horrendously over weight and if she is you might want to think about feeding her more nutrtious food as by now the foal will be using most of the food to grow. You also want to know when you start foal watch incase any problems occur which could result in the death of both. 

Am I an overly cautious human?Why has noone said this before?
		
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I DID I DID I DID!!!

Absolutely ********ng ridiculous, inexperienced idiot - there I said it!

You have no right to presume - wont you crap yourself when there is no foal and the poor mare has a tumour!

I am all for the welfare and well wishes of the mare.  But no vet in their right mind would come and assess your horse and tell you to treat as in foal without a scan and no planned covering. 

I hope to God she has a foal soon. And of course it is her decision as was it James Gray and Co's !!!


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## Gluttonforpunishment (19 October 2011)

Oh for goodness sake people, stop bashing someone for doing things their own way.

QB is not abusing or neglecting her mare.  She has sought professional advice, she is closely monitoring her.  

It may not be the way you would do it but that doesn't make it wrong.  

Wind your necks in and mind your own business.  If you don't like it then stop reading the post.

I'm sure QB has had a belly full of your bleating and ear bashing


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## Spring Feather (19 October 2011)

Winklepoker said:



			I DID I DID I DID!!!

Absolutely ********ng ridiculous, inexperienced idiot - there I said it!

You have no right to presume - wont you crap yourself when there is no foal and the poor mare has a tumour!
		
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That was a huge worry of mine but QB says the mare has milk/secretions coming from her teats and she has seen lots of foal movements in the mares belly.  Foal movements cannot be mistaken and are very distinct so that says to me that the mare IS in foal and it's not a tumour but a very strange way in which the mare is starting to produce a milk sac.  Had it not been for these movements and the secretions I would never say this mare is in foal because she still doesn't look in-foal to me but it appears I'm wrong


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## FionaM12 (19 October 2011)

Gluttonforpunishment said:



			Oh for goodness sake people, stop bashing someone for doing things their own way.

QB is not abusing or neglecting her mare.  She has sought professional advice, she is closely monitoring her.  

It may not be the way you would do it but that doesn't make it wrong.  

Wind your necks in and mind your own business.  If you don't like it then stop reading the post.

I'm sure QB has had a belly full of your bleating and ear bashing 

Click to expand...

(((((Applaus))))


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## Jesstickle (19 October 2011)

mcrobbiena said:



			I also agree with amymay. I would want to check if she is in foal or not so I could be feeding correctly. If she is not in foal she is horrendously over weight and if she is you might want to think about feeding her more nutrtious food as by now the foal will be using most of the food to grow. You also want to know when you start foal watch incase any problems occur which could result in the death of both. 

Am I an overly cautious human?Why has noone said this before?
		
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Now, I am not going to enter an argument about whether QB is right or wrong but I will say this as it is a major bug bear of mine, all your points have actually been addressed in this thread and if you had bothered to read it you would know the answers to your questions already. I think it is very rude to turn up late in the day and be all huffy when you can't even be bothered to read the whole thread.


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## FionaM12 (19 October 2011)

jesstickle said:



			Now, I am not going to enter an argument about whether QB is right or wrong but I will say this as it is a major bug bear of mine, all your points have actually been addressed in this thread and if you had bothered to read it you would know the answers to your questions already. I think it is very rude to turn up late in the day and be all huffy when you can't even be bothered to read the whole thread.
		
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Agreed. It's tedious when people start repeating everything which has been said already and asking the same questions. They've all been answered.


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## mcrobbiena (19 October 2011)

By the way, my mare had a very healthy foal this year but it cost alot of money and we did things as advised by knowledgable people and knew a bit ourselves having all (me, mum, brother) worked with horses and brother doing vetinary and I am so pleased we did things "by the book" and everything turned out well because if we hadn't and something went wrong I wouldn't be able to forgive myself because it could have been avoided. The same as if something had gone bad to either of them despite my best efforts, at least I had done my best and always put them first during a very important time.

Just because a horse belongs to someone doesn't mean they can do what they want it is OK, if you saw someone attacking their horse I hope you wouldn't stand by and watch, you would intervene or at least report it.

Also I do realise that horses have survived centuries in the wild and managed to sustain a population so they are not incapable. But if you have a domesticated one you should do your best by it. What sort of vet says "its fine just wait and see" I would be looking for a different vet.


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## mcrobbiena (19 October 2011)

Well how has this not made her think that she should maybe do something about it? I am not reading 31 pages of this everyone is entitled to an opinion. As for saying why has nobody said this before, it was more of a why has nobody said this before and it had an effect. Your all up in arms over soem things and totally disinterested by others. Get your priorities right!


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## Winklepoker (19 October 2011)

Apologies for not being arsed to read an over-excited long winded thread and for re-posting what others have have previously posted.  It comforts me that she has been advised more than once to have the mare scanned and has still taken her own judgment as the path to follow!  Everyone has freedom of opinion and good or bad, that is the reason you post, surely.


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## Emilieu (19 October 2011)

Oh god has this kicked off again??? 
What jesstickle said, right or wrong it has been addressed, read the thread!


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## Gluttonforpunishment (19 October 2011)

mcrobbiena said:



			Just because a horse belongs to someone doesn't mean they can do what they want it is OK, if you saw someone attacking their horse I hope you wouldn't stand by and watch, you would intervene or at least report it.
QUOTE]

Silly, immature thing to say.  Physical abuse of an animal cannot be put in the same category as someone making an informed decision not to undertake veterinary intervention where none is deemed necessary.

You are entitled to your own opinion but please do not be so arrogant as to assume your way is the only correct path and all others are wrong and therefore animal abusers.
		
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## Spring Feather (19 October 2011)

FionaM12 said:



			(((((Applaus)))) 

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Fiona I don't know how to do this in a kind way so all I can do is to apologise now to you.  I'm singling you out because you've been very highly visible in showing your exuberance during these threads.  I know you're not a breeder because if you were you would completely understand the reasons why very experienced horse people are concerned for this mare.


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## Amymay (19 October 2011)

jesstickle said:



			Now, I am not going to enter an argument about whether QB is right or wrong but I will say this as it is a major bug bear of mine, all your points have actually been addressed in this thread and if you had bothered to read it you would know the answers to your questions already. I think it is very rude to turn up late in the day and be all huffy when you can't even be bothered to read the whole thread.
		
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It's 31 pages long - sorry just didn't have time, or inclination to trawl back through.


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## Jesstickle (19 October 2011)

Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion. But how can you form a proper opinion if you haven't even read what has been said?  Anyway, I don't care. Do as you please, I'll just stop checking in on the thread thinking something has happened as it is a constant disappointment to realise it is people going over the same thing from a week back rather than news!


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## BonneMaman (19 October 2011)

FionaM12 said:



			Agreed. It's tedious when people start repeating everything which has been said already and asking the same questions. They've all been answered.
		
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Perhaps "people" have to keep repeating themselves because no one is listening!  I do not believe that any vet would just shrug his shoulders and say "lets wait and see" that is just utter rubbish!  Vet is either incompetent or non-existent.  Mcrobbiena - I agree with you and the others who are being shouted down on here.  Mare should have been tested and modern science implemented.  Fact.  This has NOT been done.  No recommended additional jabs given.  I expect this poor mare has something quite seriously wrong with her that is being ignored due to her owner's stupidity but every time I post on here I get shouted at by a bunch of people who want to let nature take its course - clapping hands together in glee and squealing "pretty foalie coming soon .... weeeeee".  Get real, mother nature stinks - she gives life and she takes it away.


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## Amymay (19 October 2011)

jesstickle said:



			But how can you form a proper opinion if you haven't even read what has been said?
		
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Because you ask a question and it gets answered.

Simples *


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## china (19 October 2011)

the suspense is killing me! can you not get her examined for my curiosity and so we can have a guestimate arrival date :-D pweeese :-D


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## mcrobbiena (19 October 2011)

Crickey it makes me glad to know I have enough knowledge to make an informed descision when people suggest things or I have a question but there are people on here who know no different being advised by some total happy dafties. I am glad I am not a first time owner looking for advice on here because there are people on here that just don't have a clue but think they are the dogs b*ll*cks


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## FionaM12 (19 October 2011)

BonneMaman said:



			Perhaps "people" have to keep repeating themselves because no one is listening!
		
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But what's the point? It's all been said, QB isn't going to change her course of action just because you're saying the same things over and over again.

I understand your concern, but surely you might as well unsubscribe to the thread and save yourself the annoyance?

I'm not saying that the way QB is handling things is how I would. Just that it's her business and I'm quite happy to observe and wish her and her horse(s) well.


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## LaurenBay (19 October 2011)

I am another who disagrees with QB's chosen method. However it is her Horse and her choice. I myself would want to know and seek professional help (I know QB has done, but IMO a vet who will treat a Horse as in foal without seeing it, is not a professional) 

QB I hope you get better soon! it's no fun having the sniffles, especially as you are losing sleep watching over your girl. I also wish your mare and possible foal the best.


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## FionaM12 (19 October 2011)

mcrobbiena said:



			Crickey it makes me glad to know I have enough knowledge to make an informed descision when people suggest things or I have a question but there are people on here who know no different being advised by some total happy dafties. I am glad I am not a first time owner looking for advice on here because there are people on here that just don't have a clue but think they are the dogs b*ll*cks
		
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QB hasn't asked for advice here. The only person whose advice she says she's sought is her vet.


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## tinap (19 October 2011)

I've been keeping an eye on this thread (although admittedly probably not read everything!!) 

I'm not going to comment on the 'is she/isn't she in foal' as I know zilch on the subject, or will I get into the get vet to test or not argument as the op has made her decision on what route to take.

I truly hope all goes well & foalie comes soon but was wondering do you have a cut off date in mind for if foalie doesn't arrive then tests will be done? xx


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## rhino (19 October 2011)

tinap555 said:



			I truly hope all goes well & foalie comes soon but was wondering do you have a cut off date in mind for if foalie doesn't arrive then tests will be done? xx
		
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AFAIK the longest gestation resulting in a live foal stands at 445 days.... and it's not unusual for a maiden mare to go a few weeks over. Remember 340 is very much an average, and anything between 320 and 370 is 'normal'. You could have a very, very long wait.


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## Jesstickle (19 October 2011)

amymay said:



			It's 31 pages long - sorry just didn't have time, or inclination to trawl back through.

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I don't blame you. I didn't quote you amymay, because you asked perfectly politely. You didn't come along and start mouthing off, for want of a better phrase, because no one had asked why it hadn't been said before when it quite patently had. There are ways to ask a question after all.


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## Gluttonforpunishment (19 October 2011)

mcrobbiena said:



			Crickey it makes me glad to know I have enough knowledge to make an informed descision when people suggest things or I have a question but there are people on here who know no different being advised by some total happy dafties. I am glad I am not a first time owner looking for advice on here because there are people on here that just don't have a clue but think they are the dogs b*ll*cks
		
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No need to be so aggressive.

I seek advice from my extremely well thought of vets regularly and would certainly want them on hand if I was in QB's sitution.

However, the point here is that it is not up to us to shout QB down because we disagree with her decision.  This doesn't make me or anyone else who defends her "total happy dafties".  

She has said professional advice has been sought and it is not your or anyone else's place to call her a liar.


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## mcrobbiena (19 October 2011)

I never said she was a liar?! I said I would want to change vets if mine had advised that, but he wouldn't and he is on the end of the phone if I need him, my brothers also studying vet and his gf has been qualified and working 2 years now so I am very fortunate to have a lot of vetty people around, i ahve also worked in a few yards, so has my mum all very good yards (good as in successful at what they do) and I have friends who are in my opinion very knowledgable and great riders. I can't see any of them giving the advice she has been given. But its up to her, I'm bored of this. I wish her mare all the best and hope the foal if there is one is healthy and happy and everything goes perfectly. But I have read a few really sad stories on the breeding forum who have put everything into making sure they have done the best by their mare and foal and it still not work out because mother nature was being a bitch.

Just curiouse, how would you look after a foal born this late with winter predicted to be as bad as it is? It wont have any grass warmth for MONTHS! Do you just keep them in?


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## amy-and-buster03 (19 October 2011)

mcrobbiena said:



			I am glad I am not a first time owner looking for advice on here because there are people on here that just don't have a clue but think they are the dogs b*ll*cks
		
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People like you then. Stop being a keyboard warrior, because I highly doubt you would ever speak to someone face to face in the manner you have written to people on here.

It is ultimately QB's choice and just because you wouldn't do it her way, doesn't mean it is wrong. Get over it, you sad sad person.


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## Amymay (19 October 2011)

mcrobbiena said:



			Just curiouse, how would you look after a foal born this late with winter predicted to be as bad as it is? It wont have any grass warmth for MONTHS! Do you just keep them in?
		
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It's perfectly manageable to look after a late foal during the winter months.

Clearly the weather will be of great importance, and during wet and windy days I suspect you'd want them kept in (I certainly would).  But with good sensible management, a little foal rug, and plenty of milk from mum it will thrive just as well as a spring born foal.


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## Ibblebibble (19 October 2011)

mcrobbiena said:



			But I have read a few really sad stories on the breeding forum who have put everything into making sure they have done the best by their mare and foal and it still not work out because mother nature was being a bitch.
		
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kind of proves a point that sometimes even when it's done 'the right way' that it doesn't guarantee a happy outcome! 
QB is not abusing her horse or mistreating it and it is in no more danger than any other pregnant mare, it may not be the way some people would do it but that doesn't make it right for people to name call and act superior.


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## Ibblebibble (19 October 2011)

mcrobbiena said:



			Just curiouse, how would you look after a foal born this late with winter predicted to be as bad as it is? It wont have any grass warmth for MONTHS! Do you just keep them in?
		
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why don't you tell us, being surrounded by vetty people surely you know that


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## amy-and-buster03 (19 October 2011)

Ibblebibble said:



			why don't you tell us, being surrounded by vetty people surely you know that

Click to expand...


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## TheresaW (19 October 2011)

Have to agree with LaurenBay, am not sure my vet would just give me a bit of advice over the phone on something as serious as this.

2 years ago, I put my very precious (to me) mare in foal.  It was a long thought out decision, and not something we did lightly.  We did everything by the book, but sadly, the foal was stillborn at 336 days.  A perfect in every way little filly.

This thread has really upset me that someone could seem so flippant about something so precious.


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## PStarfish (19 October 2011)

I have read the whole thread and what concerns me more is not if the mare is in foal - nature can take it's course with that, but what if the mare is NOT in foal???  Surely then there is something else going on which should have been investigated by now? I really hope she is and you have a healthy foal born but I don't think I could let my mare continue with a bloated belly and restless symptoms without knowing for sure what it was.


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## brighteyes (19 October 2011)

amymay said:



			It's 31 pages long - sorry just didn't have time, or inclination to trawl back through.

Click to expand...

9 for me.  Set it to 40 posts per page and the trawling is reduced. If you have the inclination


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## Wagtail (19 October 2011)

Gluttonforpunishment said:



			Oh for goodness sake people, stop bashing someone for doing things their own way.

QB is not abusing or neglecting her mare.  She has sought professional advice, she is closely monitoring her.  

It may not be the way you would do it but that doesn't make it wrong.  

Wind your necks in and mind your own business.  If you don't like it then stop reading the post.

I'm sure QB has had a belly full of your bleating and ear bashing 

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Completely agree.


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## MrVelvet (19 October 2011)

to those who are still blethering on .. it really is about time you went and got a hobby!!! other than being a keyboard warrior!!! (i cant remember the name of the person i stole it off but it made me chuckle  )

to the person thats worried about warmth - dont worry!! QB has a huge lounge and foalie will be snuggled under a blanket with QB to watch X Factor! 

QB -........ are we nearly there yet  ??


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## jessikaGinger (19 October 2011)

This post has become rediculous...

QB has experienced people around her if anything goes wrong

What about ponies on the forest who foal watches them? 

I had a suprise everything was perfect, my breeder friend had everything checked and everything went wrong..

I hear both sides of the story but QB hasn't asked for opinions she is just keeping us who are interested updated


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## Tammytoo (19 October 2011)

I'll be gutted if she doesn't have a foal!


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## LouandBee (19 October 2011)

brighteyes said:



			9 for me.  Set it to 40 posts per page and the trawling is reduced. If you have the inclination 

Click to expand...

How do you do that - I can't work it out?



PStarfish said:



			I have read the whole thread and what concerns me more is not if the mare is in foal - nature can take it's course with that, but what if the mare is NOT in foal???  Surely then there is something else going on which should have been investigated by now? I really hope she is and you have a healthy foal born but I don't think I could let my mare continue with a bloated belly and restless symptoms without knowing for sure what it was.
		
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Good point! 

Good luck Queen Bee - hope it's a healthy foal and get better soon.


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## JFTDWS (19 October 2011)

mcrobbiena said:



			Just curiouse, how would you look after a foal born this late with winter predicted to be as bad as it is? It wont have any grass warmth for MONTHS! Do you just keep them in?
		
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Whilst if the mare were mine I would have chosen a different path, I don't think shrieking aggressively at the OP will help - nor am I convinced you have any right since we aren't talking about a welfare case, just a difference of opinion.  As for BM, I'm more concerned about your obese gelding, as it happens...

Since an ex of mine told me that the equine radius wasn't weight bearing during the same conversation he informed me that he'd passed his 3rd yr exams at the best vet school in the UK, I'm not sure being surrounded by students or newly qualified vets means very much anyway.  If it did, you wouldn't be asking such a daft question - I know of foals who've survived the positively artic conditions of the Scottish highlands in the very depths of winter without stabling at all. 

All the best for your mare, QB


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## Merry Crisis (19 October 2011)

I think that this thread is lovely, giving us anticipation for a foal to come into the world. I dont think your mare is in foal, I hope she is and I cant wait to be proven wrong. Good luck to you and your mare.


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## Hells Bells (20 October 2011)

I think everyone is entitled to their opinnion...but on the other thread that QB set up. 

This one is solely an update thread (as mentioned in title). Most questions etc have been answered by her in the other thread, and this one is for a whole other purpose. I think its a great shame that people feel it neccessary to go on and on at her over again. She has stated her reasons for doing things the way she has, and whether we agree with it or not, I can whole heartedly say that I dont believe that this is a welfare case.

Whatever our thoughts or opinnions, I wish QB all the best of luck with it, and I hope more than anything that it goes ok (she knows how much I love this thread!!!!) And I hope others do too. Its far too late to start judging her on what has happened so far, lets just wish her well for the next few weeks


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## mcrobbiena (20 October 2011)

You see this is why I asked how would YOU look after a new born foal in the winter months when it is predicted to be so bad. I was just wondering what people did. Mine is 4months and huge and has a fluffly coat which I would really like to borrow but when I think bak to what a wee spidery leggy wobbly baby she was I just wondered what people would do if one was born this side of winter.
 I am not a keyboard warrior-although that is a wonderful title,  Im just at work bored! Sorry if it came across as me being shouty, I wasn't at all, and also to the person who doesn't believe I would say this to someones face-I truely would...I am bad. I wish the best for both mare and hopefully foal as I have said many times before I think emotion is portrayed very oddly through typing, when I was merely stating an opinion I was told I was yelling at someone. I was just typing-honest but it was towards the end of a very slow boring day so I probably wasn't looking at how my post would be viewed by others. I think if or when QB foal is born she should start a new thread saying "QB's foal has arrived" or something so we don't keep getting let down by abusive boring comments (by me!!)


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## Queenbee (20 October 2011)

mcrobbiena said:



			You see this is why I asked how would YOU look after a new born foal in the winter months when it is predicted to be so bad. I was just wondering what people did. Mine is 4months and huge and has a fluffly coat which I would really like to borrow but when I think bak to what a wee spidery leggy wobbly baby she was I just wondered what people would do if one was born this side of winter.
 I am not a keyboard warrior-although that is a wonderful title,  Im just at work bored! Sorry if it came across as me being shouty, I wasn't at all, and also to the person who doesn't believe I would say this to someones face-I truely would...I am bad. I wish the best for both mare and hopefully foal as I have said many times before I think emotion is portrayed very oddly through typing, when I was merely stating an opinion I was told I was yelling at someone. I was just typing-honest but it was towards the end of a very slow boring day so I probably wasn't looking at how my post would be viewed by others. I think if or when QB foal is born she should start a new thread saying "QB's foal has arrived" or something so we don't keep getting let down by abusive boring comments (by me!!) 

Click to expand...

I did stay off here last night for obvious reasons, but I have to say, not only are you entitled to your opinion and to voice it, I appreciate the sentiment of your post this morning.  We can all have crappy days, it takes someone of character to come on here and admit that this 'affected the tone of their post'  Thank you.  With regards to your foal, I am sure at 4 months with a typical hard wearing fluffy foal coat, it will fare very well this winter without a rug, they tend to change so much but we always remember how fragile they are!  However saying that, I did rug ben up when I first got him as a 6 month old, and boy was he fluffy and in no need of additional warmth, but it did make it easier to rug him come this winter when he was a lot bigger 

To all that are interested there is no foal, and I will repost if an when there is.


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## Amymay (20 October 2011)

queenbee said:



			To all that are interested there is no foal, and I will repost if an when there is.
		
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I'd love to see an up to date photo of your mare


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## Ellies_mum2 (20 October 2011)

amymay said:



			I'd love to see an up to date photo of your mare 

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Me too please


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## katiejam (20 October 2011)

I have just read most of this post and whilst i may do things differently, i am now excited for QB and wondering what the lastest news is...


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## Queenbee87 (20 October 2011)

Any news? I'm sad and have read all 35 pages (not all in one go ) and some of the "not so nice" thread so don't need to ask questions (apart from whether you have a new addition yet!)

Sorry to everyone else thread watching if you see this on page 1 and get excited thinking it's news


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## maree t (21 October 2011)

Can I risk asking a stupid question............
Can you not see or feel a foal moving inside ? With my dog you could feel the pups inside. As for when I was pregnant you could see elbows and knees sometimes
Just wondering as I have no experience with breeding horses


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## ischa (21 October 2011)

Maree t yes you can see and fill foal movements


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## shadowboy (21 October 2011)

(sorry I havent bothered to read full thread) Is the mare confirmed in foal? Have we passed the 339/340 days period yet?


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## tinap (21 October 2011)

No not confirmed & I think op said 330 days ish on 4th oct


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## maree t (21 October 2011)

thanks ischa
so queenbee can you feel or see anything ? surely at this stage you should ?
cant wait to see what happens


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## Fools Motto (21 October 2011)

Can I (we) please see any updated photos PLEASEEEE.

How is everything going, any more updates????


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## Queenbee (21 October 2011)

cool mix said:



			Can I (we) please see any updated photos PLEASEEEE.

How is everything going, any more updates????
		
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Hi all, I will take so photos tomorrow, no foal yet (if at all) but as we are knocking up the days after the due date now, we have the vet coming next thursday to give her the once over. (No comments needed, if you read back you will see this was always my intention if she went over).  No real change, teats are far more puffed up in the morning, but that could be because she is stabled, I wouldn't like to say it is the onset of bagging up. 

Other than that all is fine and dandy, she is doing very well


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## Merry Crisis (21 October 2011)

I hope you get the result you hope for, but if she was with the stallion (or whatever) so late in the year, without human intervention, I mean injecting her to come into season, I doubt very much that she would have stood. I have had 2 stallions standing at stud and I know that mares dont come into season in october, the days are too short. Having said that, who knows. Good luck. I would be worried if your mare is not in foal and showing symptoms, she might be having a phantom pregnancy, she will have to have something to dry her off as she might get mastitis.


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## Roasted Chestnuts (21 October 2011)

interesting to saythe least......


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## flying solo (21 October 2011)

Good luck queenbee, wishing you and Ebony the best either way xx


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## Frumpoon (22 October 2011)

I was just thinking, if this was me, after all of this prep and excitement...you are obviously a very dedicated mum with lots to offer...maybe if she isn't in foal, next spring you could put her to a proven stallion with a bit more history and experience and then you would have a bit more certainty and know that she was having a baba??

It would be amazing if this whole process coudl result in something for you and your girl? xx


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## Ladylina83 (22 October 2011)

Gosh I have to say this is crazy to me ! I'm all for letting the mare get on with it but I panicked my pants of when the time came ! We foaled in the field a.d. I am glad but I still at least woke the on call vet up too tell her it was happening ! I'm sure it will work out for the best for you good luck x


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## Queenbee (22 October 2011)

Frumpoon said:



			I was just thinking, if this was me, after all of this prep and excitement...you are obviously a very dedicated mum with lots to offer...maybe if she isn't in foal, next spring you could put her to a proven stallion with a bit more history and experience and then you would have a bit more certainty and know that she was having a baba??

It would be amazing if this whole process coudl result in something for you and your girl? xx
		
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TBH even though she is a fantastic mare, if she isn't in foal, I won't choose to put her in foal. She is 19 next year and I love riding her   furthermore I already have ben to bring on, an addition would not be planned, if it did happen, I would welcome it, if not, I will leave it be.  In all reality I know that if i did plan it I would feel far more stressy than I do now.


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## FionaM12 (22 October 2011)

queenbee said:



			TBH even though she is a fantastic mare, if she isn't in foal, I won't choose to put her in foal. She is 19 next year and I love riding her   furthermore I already have ben to bring on, an addition would not be planned, if it did happen, I would welcome it, if not, I will leave it be.  In all reality I know that if i did plan it I would feel far more stressy than I do now.
		
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I think that's very sensible. If she is accidentally in foal, it's obvious you'll welcome the new addition. But to choose to breed a foal is quite another thing.


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## LisW (23 October 2011)

Ever hopeful - checking for exciting updates?!!


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## Megibo (23 October 2011)

UPDATED PHOTO PLEASE.


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## jhoward (23 October 2011)

QB she is past her due date now isnt she? how longer before you give up on the foal idea and then have to worry about why she looks preggers etc?


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## Amaranta (23 October 2011)

I have not posted so far , have tried to keep out of it BUT am I right in understanding that this mare is 19yo and that this is possibly her first foal? Am I also right in thinking that the OP has not had a vet actually look at the mare but only spoken on the telephone?


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## Mince Pie (23 October 2011)

The answers to your questions are already in the thread, I suggest you read it.


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## Amaranta (23 October 2011)

broke_but_happy said:



			The answers to your questions are already in the thread, I suggest you read it.
		
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I HAVE read it thank you, with growing disbelief to be honest - hence my questions


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## Mince Pie (23 October 2011)

Well if you HAD read it then you would know that others have also shared the same disbelief and the whole "OMG QB is a dreadful owner and should never have horses " has been done to death. She is doing things her way, she has experienced people on hand, and she is prepared for all eventualities. Just because she is doing things a different way to most other people doesn't mean she is neglecting her horse.
This thread is for the people, like me, who are interested in Ebony's progress, I believe there is another thread for people like you who are outraged about the whole situation to  discuss the whys and wherefores of her doing things differently.


http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=483179


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## Amaranta (23 October 2011)

This is an Open Forum, if something is posted then by definition all can read and all can post, you cannot dictate that only 'nice' things can be posted.  As I said, I was not going to post but your ill informed comments have made my mind up so I WILL post exactly what I think.

It is fairly obvious that you have not had much experience foaling mares, IF you did, you would understand that NINETEEN is far too old for a first foal, I understand that it was an accidental covering (however I would not have put a newly cut colt in with a mare in the first place) but to then compound the matter by not getting the vet to do a simple exam of the mare in question is unforgivable, I do not care how many 'experienced' cow breeders are close to the OP.  The OP does not even know for sure the mare's due date but it would appear that she is past it now and yet she is STILL in a mixed field of horses?????  

If the mare is in foal, I pray to God that there are no complications, if she is not then I worry that there is a tumour, either way she need to be seen by a vet and pronto.


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## Mince Pie (23 October 2011)

I love the way that you have decided you know exactly what my experience is with horses based on 2 posts. Actually I HAVE got experienced with in foal mares, foals and stallions, having worked on several studs over the years including a   yard with a lot of mares and foals, yearlings and 2 year olds, perhaps you will have heard of North Farm Stud?
Yes I know that 19 is old for a maiden mare, however as QB has stated the mare was given a clean bill of health earlier this year by a vet who was called for an unrelated reason. 
How many BOGOF stories have you heard of? I have heard quite a few and not one of those mares had a problem with their foals, despite the fact that many owners have just thought they were fat to begin with and put them on diets!


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## Hells Bells (23 October 2011)

QB has answered what you are asking/saying already.

I understand you and many others may not agree, but its not your, my or any other person's decision. Arguments have been done to death on this thread already...I think there's been enough now.


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## Shilasdair (23 October 2011)

For what it's worth, I don't think the mare is pregnant.
And given the worrying circumstances, I think that's a good thing all round.
S


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## rhino (23 October 2011)

broke_but_happy said:



			How many BOGOF stories have you heard of? I have heard quite a few and not one of those mares had a problem with their foals, despite the fact that many owners have just thought they were fat to begin with and put them on diets!
		
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I would say you, and they, were lucky then. I have seen both mares and foals who have not had a 'happy ending'.  So has the OP, as she stated earlier in this thread:



queenbee said:



			I also rescued 3 young ponies, one had been running with a stallion, we watched her loads, then one day saw the complete unevenness in her sides and knew, the next day I got up and went to work, came home and the family dog was lying in the field, apparently she had been there all day, she was with the aborted foal   I broke my heart for the mare she had had such a hard start.
		
Click to expand...


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## Mince Pie (23 October 2011)

rhino said:



			I would say you, and they, were lucky then. I have seen both mares and foals who have not had a 'happy ending'.  So has the OP, as she stated earlier in this thread:
		
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But again how many mares have you seen to have problems even with the appropriate checks, jabs, feeding, worming, etc? Swings and roundabouts, no matter how you go about it there will always be mares who have problems foaling.
I am not saying that this is how I would handle the situation, far from it, but the OP has decided that this is how she is handling things and I do not see the point in poster after poster telling her in no uncertain terms how unusual and unorthodox her decisions are. There is another thread for that discussion and I, personally, would like this thread to stay as it was intended - for those of use who are interested to hear about Ebony is getting on.


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## Rudolph's Red Nose (23 October 2011)

deleted - sorry posting from phone - duplication


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## Rudolph's Red Nose (23 October 2011)

broke_but_happy said:



			I, personally, would like this thread to stay as it was intended - for those of use who are interested to hear about Ebony is getting on.
		
Click to expand...


so would I


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## hendrabonnie (23 October 2011)

orbie said:



			so would I 

Click to expand...

Me too!


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## Queenbee (23 October 2011)

Hi all, FWIW I am starting to lean towards the 'not in foal' camp again, for a number of reasons I suppose.  She is looking a little more waif like  although interestingly it is harder to see her ribs, almost like she has put on a slight fatty layer but lost the bloat.  Whilst not her old 'nutter' self she is more chipper and jumped the hosepipe on the way to the field this morning.  I am assuming that the puffiness and relaxation of the vulva and teats that I have observed has probably been more to do with her being stabled at night rather than anything else. I am also suspecting that the more relaxed nature that she has been displaying may purely have been a combination of factors, to include being 'teacher to a baby' and possibly she was feeling a bit stodgy from being bloated.  For those who think that a horse should not be bloated, this horse does get bloated and has loose droppings, in the past she has been checked by vets relating to this and they have told me not to worry.  This year she was more bloated than normal and that is what made me think that it may not just be 'bloating' now however I am starting to believe that this is what it was.  I do however want to be certain about this, my main reason for having the vet come is to have confirmation that she is/is not in foal.  As I said in my previous post, this will be happening on Thursday.  When I hope, (even though a foal would have been a welcome and much adored addition) I will be given the 'all clear' to ride.


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## quirky (23 October 2011)

Amaranta said:



			IF you did, you would understand that NINETEEN is far too old for a first foal,
		
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We had a maiden mare of 19 foal this year .... she did it in the field whilst out in the day (she was stabled at night). No problems, lovely foal.

She may be an exception to the rule but she completely disproves your above shouty statement .


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## Amaranta (23 October 2011)

quirky said:



			We had a maiden mare of 19 foal this year .... she did it in the field whilst out in the day (she was stabled at night). No problems, lovely foal.

She may be an exception to the rule but she completely disproves your above shouty statement .
		
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Lol!  Bless her, glad it worked out for you and apologies to your mare, I was not being ageist - honest!


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## quirky (23 October 2011)

Amaranta said:



			Lol!  Bless her, glad it worked out for you and apologies to your mare, I was not being ageist - honest!
		
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 Not my mare. I'm far too precious about my mare to put her anywhere near an entire .


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## Queenbee (23 October 2011)

Amaranta said:



			Lol!  Bless her, glad it worked out for you and apologies to your mare, I was not being ageist - honest!
		
Click to expand...

no, just Queenbeeist, no offence Amaranta but if quirky put a maiden into foal out of choice (sorry quirky... presuming here!) at 19, and Ebony 'accidentally was in foal at age 18, and yes you were wrong, she is 19 next year, why is it so bad of me but not a scathing word to quirky.  I realise that my decisions have got peoples backs up on here, but I wish people would understand that I really do know the ins and outs of my horses, and I trust my judgement, I am not an oracle when it comes to horses, and agree that there are those who are far more knowledgeable than I am, but I do know this little mare and whatever people on here think, I would not do anything to harm her.  The wellbeing of my horses are and always will be, my priority.

just read quirkys post, so not her mare, but the sentiment remains the same.


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## Queenbee (23 October 2011)

Anyway folks, will post on thursday with final update


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## Amaranta (23 October 2011)

queenbee said:



			no, just Queenbeeist, no offence Amaranta but if quirky put a maiden into foal out of choice (sorry quirky... presuming here!) at 19, and Ebony 'accidentally was in foal at age 18, and yes you were wrong, she is 19 next year, why is it so bad of me but not a scathing word to quirky.  I realise that my decisions have got peoples backs up on here, but I wish people would understand that I really do know the ins and outs of my horses, and I trust my judgement, I am not an oracle when it comes to horses, and agree that there are those who are far more knowledgeable than I am, but I do know this little mare and whatever people on here think, I would not do anything to harm her.  The wellbeing of my horses are and always will be, my priority.
		
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Firstly, Quirky's mare was not accidentally put in foal, she received proper care towards the end of her gestation, I would imagine that she was also separated from the herd near to her time.

The fact that your mare is 19 is only one of the things I believe were detrimental to her health, it is more the fact that you only consulted a vet over the telephone and then decided to 'wait and see', many many things could have gone wrong, the age of the mare was the least of her problems - btw do you know WHY 19 is rather old for a first foal?


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## Spring Feather (23 October 2011)

queenbee said:



			This year she was more bloated than normal and that is what made me think that it may not just be 'bloating' now however I am starting to believe that this is what it was.
		
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How would you account for the 'foal movements' you saw though?  Foal movements leap and bounce and are very extravagant movements, quite unlike anything else that goes on in the abdomen.  Nothing else can produce such an array of erratic movements


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## Queenbee (23 October 2011)

Spring Feather said:



			How would you account for the 'foal movements' you saw though?  Foal movements leap and bounce and are very extravagant movements, quite unlike anything else that goes on in the abdomen.  Nothing else can produce such an array of erratic movements 

Click to expand...

Just another one of the things I will be checking out with the vet, I remember when I was a child and got scared I would 'see things in the dark' that weren't there.  Perhaps this is the case, perhaps I am talking myself out of it, but there is still a foal in there?  Who knows!  I did see movement and lumps and bumps, still can, and she is still narky when you touch her flanks and tummy.  However there is less noticeable movement and while this could be explained by foal growth and positioning, I am less convinced.  Vet is coming on Thursday and will be able to say one way or the other, speculation can then stop and I can get on with getting her fit if she isn't.

Amaranta, I am aware of the potential problems in older maiden mares, however since the majority of these are associated with foaling and as you will have read ebony was only assumed possibly in foal in august you will of course concede that this was too late to do anything about it.  In addition to this she was given a clean bill of health for foaling aged 15.  Finally not to be overly picky or to labour the point... SHE IS 18!!!


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## Black_Horse_White (23 October 2011)

Good luck whatever the outcome xx


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## china (23 October 2011)

roll on thursday!! im excited :-D


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## Bedlam (23 October 2011)

queenbee said:



			I do however want to be certain about this, my main reason for having the vet come is to have confirmation that she is/is not in foal.  As I said in my previous post, this will be happening on Thursday.  When I hope, (even though a foal would have been a welcome and much adored addition) I will be given the 'all clear' to ride.
		
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Hallelujah - I actually hope that however much you say that we haven't influenced you that the many many posters on this thread that have implored you to get a vets opinion may just have had an effect. That's why I think it is important that people HAVE posted their views even if they were unpopular to others.  Once you know for sure what is up with your mare you can start to put things in place to deal with it - that is putting your mare's wellbeing at the top of your priorities. Waiting and seeing, in my opinion was very far from it.


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## Queenbee (23 October 2011)

Bedlam said:



			Hallelujah - I actually hope that however much you say that we haven't influenced you that the many many posters on this thread that have implored you to get a vets opinion may just have had an effect. That's why I think it is important that people HAVE posted their views even if they were unpopular to others.  Once you know for sure what is up with your mare you can start to put things in place to deal with it - that is putting your mare's wellbeing at the top of your priorities. Waiting and seeing, in my opinion was very far from it.
		
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Apologies in advance for blowing my top at you here but read my past posts before you presume to patronise me. It was always my intention to call the vet if/when she went over what would be her due date and if you were not intent on being so bloody sanctimonious and had read the history then you would have seen that. Furthermore I can pretty much guarantee that if she is not in foal the vet will be happy with her health,  I'm no vet, never said I was but I know my mare. If for one second you or anyone else thinks I have not had my mares wellbeing at the top of my priorities at all times then quite frankly your narrow minded and ill informed opinion is not one that I hold in high esteem.


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## Emilieu (23 October 2011)

Looking forward to Thursday's update either way and glad to hear Ebony doing well. 

You've been defended so well by yourself and others I will keep out of it this time


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## Dancing Queen (23 October 2011)

roll on thursday! x


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## indie999 (23 October 2011)

Good luck I just heard tonight about a human who was told 3 years ago that they couldnt have children and didnt know they were 6.5months pregnant.

So what will be either way............if its wanted foal great, thats the main thing.......she looks like she has changed shape more underneath ie lower...my gelding can look that fat though................and i have no idea if its pregnant or not(I just know I was like an elephant) 

But will look forward to the next update and good luck.........so pls come back to let us know if it is a big FART(as suggested earlier) or indeed in foal etc

Good luck ...ignore the snipes. You sound like a caring owner.


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## smellsofhorse (23 October 2011)

Cant wait until Thursday!
I want to know!


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## mulledwhine (23 October 2011)

Still do not understand why you have not found out for sure if she is pregnant or not!!!!!

Surely it would be better to know?

Any way good luck


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## mulledwhine (23 October 2011)

Btw I  another one who was 6 months pregnant before I knew, but I was seeing the doctor!!!! Idiot, that is why I changed practices


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## MrVelvet (26 October 2011)

Daisydo said:



			Btw I  another one who was 6 months pregnant before I knew, but I was seeing the doctor!!!! Idiot, that is why I changed practices
		
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me tooooooo!!! right come on... updates?

eta - I wasnt seeing a doctor though I was just tiny!!!


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## tinap (26 October 2011)

Vets going out tomorrow I think.......


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## MrVelvet (26 October 2011)

I thought it was Thursday today... duh


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## tinap (26 October 2011)

Haha, my days are all messed up with kids being off school!!!


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## BonneMaman (27 October 2011)

queenbee said:



			Apologies in advance for blowing my top at you here but read my past posts before you presume to patronise me. It was always my intention to call the vet if/when she went over what would be her due date and if you were not intent on being so bloody sanctimonious and had read the history then you would have seen that. Furthermore I can *pretty much guarantee *that if she is not in foal the vet will be happy with her health,  I'm no vet, never said I was but I know my mare. If for one second you or anyone else thinks I have not had my mares wellbeing at the top of my priorities at all times then quite frankly your narrow minded and ill informed opinion is not one that I hold in high esteem.
		
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But don't you think it would have been safer and more proactive to have called the vet in the first instance time to come out and test?  This still and always will be a very very sorry tale of poor horsemanship verging on neglect whatever the outcome.  "Knowing your mare" is NOT enough!  You are the narrow minded one here and as for ill informed you need to do far more homework before EVER considering breeding in future.  I just hope that your rediculous ideas have not rubbed off on anyone who have read your posts.  Thursday today, lets get this over and done with for the sake of your poor mare.  

Now I will sit back and wait for your groupies to jump on me - I hope they don't decide to breed either!


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## Merry Crisis (27 October 2011)

BonneMaman said:



			But don't you think it would have been safer and more proactive to have called the vet in the first instance time to come out and test?  This still and always will be a very very sorry tale of poor horsemanship verging on neglect whatever the outcome.  "Knowing your mare" is NOT enough!  You are the narrow minded one here and as for ill informed you need to do far more homework before EVER considering breeding in future.  I just hope that your rediculous ideas have not rubbed off on anyone who have read your posts.  Thursday today, lets get this over and done with for the sake of your poor mare.  

Now I will sit back and wait for your groupies to jump on me - I hope they don't decide to breed either!
		
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I think some of them do have children already.


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## FionaM12 (27 October 2011)

Come on guys, can't you just back off now and let QB update us without hassling her? (Although I did find Lionman's comment quite funny! )

As for "choosing to breed", please do try to keep up! QB has never had any intention of breeding, it was an accident resulting from bad advice from a vet.


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## BonneMaman (27 October 2011)

FionaM12 said:



			Come on guys, can't you just back off now and let QB update us without hassling her? (Although I did find Lionman's comment quite funny! )

As for "choosing to breed", please do try to keep up! QB has never had any intention of breeding, it was an accident resulting from bad advice from a vet.
		
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Try reading my post "breeding in future" - this was a sad misjudged, mismanaged accident!


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## Chellebean (27 October 2011)

FionaM12 said:



			Come on guys, can't you just back off now and let QB update us without hassling her? (Although I did find Lionman's comment quite funny! )

As for "choosing to breed", please do try to keep up! QB has never had any intention of breeding, it was an accident resulting from bad advice from a vet.
		
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I quite agree with Fiona here


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## PingPongPony (27 October 2011)

FionaM12 said:



			Come on guys, can't you just back off now and let QB update us without hassling her? (Although I did find Lionman's comment quite funny! )

As for "choosing to breed", please do try to keep up! QB has never had any intention of breeding, it was an accident resulting from *bad advice from a vet*.
		
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that amazing person who so many of you think the mare will be unable to carry a foal without might have caused her to become pregnant in the first place...
As to the pregnancy going wrong, well tbh this has been said before, it can go wrong whatever, please read those stories of it all going wrong because the vet made a ''mistake'' just because the vet is actualy a normal human being too and whatever he does, if its meant to go wrong (by god for example) then it will, no matter how many vets are there, thats what OP is/was trying to tell you all along, she did NOT plan the pregnancy therefore she thinks that if its meant to be then so it will be, thats why she left her mare to it, jeeez its not that hard people. as much as i get your point, its been said too many times, now give it a rest and let OP gives us an update. and tbh i am going to feel sorry for the poor horse and person if theres something wrong rather than pregnancy (touch wood) because she's only human, people make mistakes and people make decisions, but still need support and sympathy. so to those who said 'i will be the one to say i told you so' would that make you feel better?? now imagine you made a mistake too or took the route your friends told you not to and went wrong, how would you feel if no one would stand by you and support you but everyone around you said 'i told you so' and turned their backs on you. think about it!


Now come on OP, update please!!!!


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## MrVelvet (27 October 2011)

its Thursdayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy


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## Aperchristmastree (27 October 2011)

I'm so excited


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## Dancing Queen (27 October 2011)

Im so excited! cant wait to be an auntie! xx


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## Queenbee (27 October 2011)

BonneMadman or whatever your name is:  I think the really sad thing is that I don't live closer to you, I feel somewhat bereft that I don't and totally amazed that I have managed to bumble through my life mismanaging horses with no detrimental effect to them, god what I would give to have you there blessing me with your wisdom 24/7.  Just think, I wouldn't be neglecting my horses then.  It is all the horses that I have ever owned that I feel sorry for, all 8 of them...

In all honesty BM, whatever you may think of me, you are beginning to sound like a parrot, everyone heard what you said the first time, and the second, even the 3rd, 4th and 5th.  You have your opinions and views, and whilst your opinion of the current situation will not change, you seem to have made assumptions about my entire management and care of my animals based on your assessment of this situation I find THAT very scary.  You may have taken offence at the popularity of this post, and this may have fuelled your anger, that however is not my fault.  I wish you well with your horses in the future.


Well folks its thursday........



So...














Do you want to know?















Hang on, I'll just roll a fag before I get typing...........


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## Spudlet (27 October 2011)

Gah, just tell us woman!


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## caithness_1 (27 October 2011)

oo what a tease! haha when i saw you had updated i came straight on..have been ignoring peoples pointless arguments for days now. How did the vet go?!


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## Bertolie (27 October 2011)

Aww come on QB dont keep us in suspense!  Is she/isn't she?!


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## Sugarplum Furry (27 October 2011)

Aaaargh the suspense!!!! Come on QB, you could have rolled 20 roll ups by now....PLEASE TELL (am reduced to begging, no dignity me).


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## Queenbee (27 October 2011)

Vet has been and gone,  over the last couple of weeks Eb's has changed back to normal and in her attitude she has become her bouncy self again.  She is still calmer than she used to be and is lying down religiously every night.  Vet could feel nothing and so scanned, again nothing untoward, heart rate is also fine.  End result is that she is not pregnant and from what he can tell never was!  He did suggest it could have been phantom, but is more willing to put the sheer size of her down to her being bloated, as always she has a lot of 'gut noises'  he has suggested that we may want to look at keeping her on roughage throughout the summer to try and lessen the bloating.  He is happy with her health and even with her teeth (she started to develop diastema this time last year and we kept picking the stuff out, the gaps have shrunk back now which he is really pleased with)  So all in all, a clean bill of health for a very non pregnant mare.....

Now, the silver lining....

YO purchased a lovely little 13.3 mare a few months ago.  She was sold as having been in foal before and having gone back to the stallion in her first season, so possibly in foal, as YO purchased her as a show pony for her daughter she had her injected to abort the foal.  Bless her the next couple of days she looked very colicky and sorry for herself.   After a week off the daughter started to ride her again, I gave her lessons, and rode the little mare myself (she is a dream... arab x)  Then, YO's daughter took a tumble at a jump  in another of their horses and damaged her spleen despite wearing a BP, she has to have 3 months off riding.  We have been seeing similar changes and rumblings in this little mare, YO rang vets and they said it was not possible for the foal to have lived, that if it was still there it would be fossilised.  YO decided to get her checked when they came to do Ebs, because she couldn't stand the not knowing, although she knew in her heart, as the vets had said... It just wasn't possible.....


Have you guessed the silver lining yet?









YO's daughters mare is in foal!  5months and its very healthy and very alive 






Funny how things turn out isn't it? 




I think I'm going for a short wander up to the church and back on ebs this afternoon, and  I can't wait


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## Puppy (27 October 2011)

queenbee said:



			End result is that she is not pregnant and from what he can tell never was!
		
Click to expand...

Oh phew. Thank goodness for that.


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## YasandCrystal (27 October 2011)

Ah there was indeed a silver lining! You created a fabulous thread and Ebs got herself some pampering 
Thanks for the update - we want pics of YO's pony foal when it comes please!


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## flying solo (27 October 2011)

I am very happy for you Queenbee. I hope you can enjoy Ebony now she's had a holiday  I look forward to reading her progress.

I hope your YO isn't too upset regarding her mare, but congratulations to her all the same!


xxx


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## FionaM12 (27 October 2011)

What a strange end to the story! I'm quite disappointed Ebony isn't having Ben's foal, but enormously relieved that she's fine and there's no health problem causing the changes in her.

It's interesting that you were convinced you saw foal movements at one point. I really believe that our minds play tricks and we see what we want to see sometimes. Rather like another thread on here about Animal Communicators perhaps: the power of suggestion?

So glad all's well though. Let us know how the YO's mare gets on please! 

xxxx


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## Ranyhyn (27 October 2011)

What a saga - thanks for updating, glad you can crack on with your mare now and exciting times for the other little mare.


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## Black_Horse_White (27 October 2011)

Hope you are not too disappointed, I know i'am &#57431;But at least your mare is healthy. Enjoy your wander later xx


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## Queenbee (27 October 2011)

FS, strangely enough, YO felt awful when she saw the little mare in such a state after the injection, and what with the daughter being 'off riding' its no great shakes, YO asked her daughter what she would prefer and she decided to ride v's have foal.  However, after the excitement with Ebony, YO had started to say she wished she was in foal, especially since they had decided to buy a jumping pony for her daughter.  So this news is very very well received.  When the time comes for the daughter to start riding again, she will have a proper jumping pony and focus on that, the mare will be able to be a wonderful mum and everyone will be happy.

As I have always said, Ebs has given her little heart to me, she has given me everything, a foal would have been well recieved and much loved and cared for, but it was not planned or 'asked for'  I am very happy that I can go out today and jump on her back   The journey has brought us even closer together, I have gone cross eyed observing her!  She's 18 so allowing her to have a few months of not being ridden was neither her nor there to me, but now we can go exploring again, and I can book the holiday that I was going to have in october! 

Strangely, despite previous excitement that she could be in foal, I feel no disappointment, but I suppose that's because she really is everything I want and I feel so excited about being able to go and tack her up and enjoy getting her fit


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## shadowboy (27 October 2011)

I thought at much after the 339/340 day period had passed and there were no more signs. 

Glad your mare is ok, and you can start riding again.


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## TicTac (27 October 2011)

TicTac said:



			She could be having a phantom pregnancy!
		
Click to expand...


Didn't want to cause too much of an argument at the time but having worked at a stud for 2 years I have learn't a thing or two.

Sorry to hear though that you wont be hearing the patter of tiny hooves but at least you can start having some fun with her again


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## Queenbee (27 October 2011)

TicTac said:



			Didn't want to cause too much of an argument at the time but having worked at a stud for 2 years I have learn't a thing or two.

Sorry to hear though that you wont be hearing the patter of tiny hooves but at least you can start having some fun with her again 

Click to expand...

Hey, its no problem   He suspects this was not the case because it is rare in older horses and she has always had a tendency to bloat up, although this didn't change when we had her on a paddock paradise type system, but I guess we will never know for sure   The best is that I can ride her again, this adventure is over for her, but beginning for YO's mare, and Ebs and I are on a new adventure


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## Spudlet (27 October 2011)

Well, probably all's well that ends well, Ebs is a more mature lady after all and while I'm sure she would have been fine, maybe it's best that she isn't in foal after all IYSWIM.

Although I am very much against over-breeding, on a sentimental fluffy level I am also very glad that the YOs mare hung onto her foal. It's AMAZING how mares do that mind you, you see welfare cases that are quite literally skin and bone, yet they'll still produce a foal - they put everything into their foals and keep nothing for themselves. Hope you enjoy the little one when it arrives, and Ebs too of course


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## Ibblebibble (27 October 2011)

blimey it's like an agatha christie tale lol, Ebs not pregnant but Yo's mare is when she really shouldn't be nature really is strange
whilst i am sorry you have no fluffy foal to play with QB i am very pleased that Ebs is fit and healthy and you get to ride again, as for bloating, i know how she feels lol


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## Queenbee (27 October 2011)

Spudlet said:



			Well, probably all's well that ends well, Ebs is a more mature lady after all and while I'm sure she would have been fine, maybe it's best that she isn't in foal after all IYSWIM.

Although I am very much against over-breeding, on a sentimental fluffy level I am also very glad that the YOs mare hung onto her foal. It's AMAZING how mares do that mind you, you see welfare cases that are quite literally skin and bone, yet they'll still produce a foal - they put everything into their foals and keep nothing for themselves. Hope you enjoy the little one when it arrives, and Ebs too of course

Click to expand...

I know, the vets were amazed, they were adamant that it couldn't possibly have lived   she bloody well showed them!  The YO has a good eye for a horse and this little mare is a beauty, she has also shown in hand at county level and her other foal is doing the same I think.  Anyway, this is a lovely little blessing to round it all off, and it has given the daughter something to do, she is currently in her room deciding on what she will call the foal!  Again, although this mare was deliberately put to a stallion by the previous owner, this was not planned, but will be very very much loved and cared for.  And with 3 younger children, all growing up, this little one will have a certain future, as much as that can be said for any horse.


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## Queenbee (27 October 2011)

Ibblebibble said:



			blimey it's like an agatha christie tale lol, Ebs not pregnant but Yo's mare is when she really shouldn't be nature really is strange
whilst i am sorry you have no fluffy foal to play with QB i am very pleased that Ebs is fit and healthy and you get to ride again, as for bloating, i know how she feels lol

Click to expand...

Mrs Peacock in the library with the candle stick... No wait Colonel Mustard, in the drawing room with the lead pipe  

Anyway, I will definitely post pictures for you all of the foal next year


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## china (27 October 2011)

i must admit, im a tiny bit dissapointed :-( but also pleased you are able to crack on and ride her! My mare bloats aswell to the point the vet turned around and said to me are you sure she isnt in foal? if she is on short grass she bloats massivley. If she is off the grass and on the hay she deflates.


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## Spring Feather (27 October 2011)

Please take what I'm about to write in the vein in which it's being written.  There is no ulterior motive and I mean whatever I write in a kind way (even though it may not come across like this) but the terrible ignorance of some vets totally astound me and I have to raise questions.  Sorry.

Firstly I'm very pleased to hear that you now know for sure that the mare is not pregnant.  As said I've never thought she looked pregnant in any of the photos but without a vet check this could never have been confirmed or denied.  Did the vet take a uterine swab from your mare to see why she has not been cycling?  What was his/her explanation for you seeing "foal movements"?  I mean foal movements are so erratic and are huge movements that if she's not pregnant then what in the heck were those movements?  What about the large swelling under her belly?  Golly, sorry for all the questions  but I don't know whether to feel happy for you or even more worried than I previously was.  Problem is I'm a breeder and my mares are so important to me that I would always try to figure things out and be searching everything to get to the bottom of this.   



queenbee said:



			YO purchased a lovely little 13.3 mare a few months ago.  She was sold as having been in foal before and having gone back to the stallion in her first season, so possibly in foal, as YO purchased her as a show pony for her daughter she had her injected to abort the foal.  Bless her the next couple of days she looked very colicky and sorry for herself.   After a week off the daughter started to ride her again, I gave her lessons, and rode the little mare myself (she is a dream... arab x)  Then, YO's daughter took a tumble at a jump  in another of their horses and damaged her spleen despite wearing a BP, she has to have 3 months off riding.  We have been seeing similar changes and rumblings in this little mare, *YO rang vets and they said it was not possible for the foal to have lived,* that if it was still there it would be fossilised.  YO decided to get her checked when they came to do Ebs, because she couldn't stand the not knowing, although she knew in her heart, as the vets had said... *It just wasn't possible.....*

Click to expand...

Was this the same vet who told you a whole pile of nonsense before?  Or was this the new vet you've been using (who doesn't sound that much better)?  I really think you and your YO need to get a proper horse vet on board because the vets you've been dealing with honestly sound like dimwits to me, sorry   There is a small window for successfully terminating a pregnancy and providing you inject within that window the pregnancy _should_ (should, not will!) be terminated.  If injecting outwith this window then it is very unlikely that the pregnancy will be terminated by injection.  So for the vet to say it isn't possible shows a distinct lack of equine reproduction knowledge!  I'm not blaming you or your YO as neither of you have this level of equine knowledge .. but an equine vet?  Absolutely he/she should know all this basic stuff.  Do yourselves a favour and switch vets!


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## FionaM12 (27 October 2011)

Springfeather, is the foal likely to be damaged by the injection or will it be okay? I really, really hope it will be fine, but I know that certainly in humans all drugs have some risk during pregnancy.


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## Spring Feather (27 October 2011)

The foal should be fine


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## FionaM12 (27 October 2011)

Spring Feather said:



			The foal should be fine 

Click to expand...

Thankyou. That's a relief.


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## Hells Bells (27 October 2011)

QB, I'm glad you'll have plenty of time to ride and have fun with Ebony again. Even though there's no foal, you've said yourself its given you a great opportunity to get to know her even better.

Spring Feather, its nice to see an opinnion get aired in a nice, informative way like you're doing, makes a change! 

Best of luck to YO's mare, and enjoy Ebs  x


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## Vixen Van Debz (31 October 2011)

Happy result all round: Ebony is healthy, and you can enjoy riding her again 80)  And what a fab story about that cracker of a mare! Utterly smile inducing 80)


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