# rising at trot from the knee



## VRIN (10 January 2015)

Quick question but I suspect lengthy explanation .. How do you rise from the knee?


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## gunnergundog (10 January 2015)

Short answer:  you don't!


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## VRIN (10 January 2015)

maybe i am asking it in the wrong way... how do you keep your lower leg 'free' so you can use your legs to keep horse forward


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## soulfull (10 January 2015)

I imagine Ive been  chopped off at the knee lol  or kneeling down.

Also helps to push down with your thigh rather than just the heel

oh and practice swinging your lower leg back freely without gripping.  that's where the push the thigh down is useful


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## philamena (11 January 2015)

See if this imagery helps : Make sure your thigh is dropping down from the hip, and imagine your legs end just UNDER the knee at the top of the shin bone, but that you have a shelf there at the top of the shin bone which you are reaching your knee down to sit on to support your weight. Ensure your feet are light-light-light in the stirrups, and don't push down but if you need to work on your lower leg position think of pointing your heel towards the horse's hock. The rise should feel like a forward movement with the hips rather than an up, with the below-the-knee shelf (not the knee itself) feeling like a pivot or hinge, so the rise happens without disturbing the lower leg.


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## VRIN (11 January 2015)

Thanks. I will try and visualise what you have suggested tomorrow whilst trotting. My aim is to be able to use my lower leg independently when rising to the trot - something that currently is not happening!


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## Tobiano (11 January 2015)

If possible get an instructor to shout at you constantly to keep your weight in your knee not in your stirrup  thats what  mine does.  think there are differing views on this but I think that rising trot without stirrups is a good way to get the feel of what it means (as then by definition you have NO weight in your stirrup).  I also find suspended trot quite helpful.  

I recently complained to my instructor about my wavy lower legs and she concentrated on this in about the next 4 lessons and I noticed a real improvement (this is after riding for 20 years so it can be got better!).


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## Pinkvboots (11 January 2015)

Think of it like you have no knee joint so you use your groin muscle to rise not your knee, when you get it your horse will fly along


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## kate2323 (11 January 2015)

A very simple way of thinking this is to NOT ride as if on the toilet...legs forward...seat back ...and dont be shocked as to how many people do ride like this....you have to put your leg back at least 3 inches so your upper leg points down..this way  you sit on your seat bones lightly and your leg is free and loose....add to that an imaginary  cigarette packet between your shoulder blades and you have the perfect dressage position....'


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## siennamum (11 January 2015)

Take your stirrups away and rise without them. really works


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## VRIN (11 January 2015)

kate2323 said:



			A very simple way of thinking this is to NOT ride as if on the toilet...legs forward...seat back ...and dont be shocked as to how many people do ride like this....you have to put your leg back at least 3 inches so your upper leg points down..this way  you sit on your seat bones lightly and your leg is free and loose....add to that an imaginary  cigarette packet between your shoulder blades and you have the perfect dressage position....'
		
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I like the image...


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## Trules (11 January 2015)

I  heard this a week or 2 ago on this forum. it has helped a lot. just try it, it's quite easy. it has helped me  slow and decrease the rise, using the foot was throwing me up too high and I was twisting through the hip. it's a mini revelation!


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## VRIN (11 January 2015)

Trules said:



			I  heard this a week or 2 ago on this forum. it has helped a lot. just try it, it's quite easy. it has helped me  slow and decrease the rise, using the foot was throwing me up too high and I was twisting through the hip. it's a mini revelation!
		
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Sort of what I am doing so will def try..


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## peanut (11 January 2015)

Isn't this what Mary Wanless talks about in "Ride with your mind"?


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## Trules (11 January 2015)

I gave it a go, and it came easily. my 10 yr old daughter was doing the rising trot without stirrups in her lesson yesterday and sussed it pretty quickly. I remember being taught it many moons ago when I was a child also! useful exercise.


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## Cortez (12 January 2015)

BEST EVER exercise: do rising trot without stirrups. That'll sort out 90% of the problems people have with: swinging lower legs; gripping lower legs; weak thighs; rising too high; poor rhythm. Watch out you don't tip forwards or slam back into the saddle (don't rise too high when you're doing it).


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## Wheels (12 January 2015)

VRIN said:



			maybe i am asking it in the wrong way... how do you keep your lower leg 'free' so you can use your legs to keep horse forward
		
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I don't think anybody has addressed this issue - Ideally you shouldn't have to use your leg to keep the horse forward, you should be able to ask once for the trot and the horse should keep pace until you ask for something different.  Then it is easier to keep the correct position because you are not having to work so hard to keep the forward momentum


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## kate2323 (12 January 2015)

you use your lower leg forward  to ask for extensions - leg back to ask for collection....so it needs to be free..at least that is how I am taught


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## VRIN (12 January 2015)

Wheels said:



			I don't think anybody has addressed this issue - Ideally you shouldn't have to use your leg to keep the horse forward, you should be able to ask once for the trot and the horse should keep pace until you ask for something different.  Then it is easier to keep the correct position because you are not having to work so hard to keep the forward momentum
		
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I am working on this ... its starting to happen but still need to 'refresh' the trot at times and this is when I find the leg is not working independently.... hence I need to sort out my position and rising..


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## VRIN (12 January 2015)

Well i have tried the no stirrups - couldn't last long but actually gave me a feel for hat I was trying to do... will persevere


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## Tnavas (13 January 2015)

gunnergundog said:



			Short answer:  you don't!  

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Of course you do - its the joint that opens and closes as you rise!

OP - Imagine getting up from a chair - Analyse how you do so.

You do not push up from your feet but open the angle of your knee as you move your hips forward until you are vertical

Riders who's feet flick or look as if they are using their legs at every stride are pushing themselves up from their feet, to keep your legs still lift your body from your knees as you swing your pelvis forward. Your upper body needs to be inclined slightly forward to allow for the forward movement of the horse.

Also avoid forcing your heel down to deeply especially if you are not the sort that is designed that way. Forcing the knee down too hard stiffens the leg and often prevents the rider from actually using their leg against the horse. I once had a client at the school who had a terrible time getting one of our best schooled and responsive horses going, she'd be puffed and exhausted after every lesson. Then one day I happened to be in a position where I saw her leg from behind and I could see her trying to use her legs but not making contact with the horse. She always had a 'lovely heel' position - so I suggested she lift her heel a little and low and behold horse went like a dream. You may notice that many dressage riders appear to have the heel only a tad lower than their toes so that they can keep a soft leg that is effective.


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## Cortez (13 January 2015)

VRIN said:



			Well i have tried the no stirrups - couldn't last long but actually gave me a feel for hat I was trying to do... will persevere
		
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Well done, keep it up and I assure you, you will feel the benefit.


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## Tiddlypom (13 January 2015)

nancie said:



			Isn't this what Mary Wanless talks about in "Ride with your mind"?
		
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Ah yes. Yonks ago I went to a Mary Wanless clinic. She had me rising as if in trot, but with the horse stood still, and her fingers in my stirrup under my foot. I was ****ting myself that I was going to maim her :eek3:.

She called it 'accelerated learning' !


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## Happy Hunter (15 January 2015)

Tried this last night - imagining the fingers under my feet in the stirrups  - Fab!
Horse seemed happy enough, and my lower leg seemed less 'nagging' - Boy did I feel it in the thighs afterwards though!!


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