# Endurance horses dies at Euston Park



## MotherOfChickens (18 August 2019)

Not surprised sadly, horse's last loop was nearly 28kph, UAE team. FEI events suck ime, my only involvement with one in Scotland was the only time (having been present at many SERC events) was the only time I complained and the only time I felt very uncomfortable with the sport at that time.
https://eustonparkendurance.co.uk/s...j0MlsRRzNeTRRIFny45YpyndPpBjxpf3IBvrRD4tn3G7A


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## ycbm (18 August 2019)

When are they going to get a grip on this? ðŸ˜ 

.


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## Roasted Chestnuts (18 August 2019)

You know they say the best is done but it isnâ€™t really is it. Money speaks and as long as the biggest payers are breaking the rules nothing will be done. They canâ€™t afford to lose the money.


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## MotherOfChickens (18 August 2019)

its such a shame, at grassroots it really is a great discipline. tbh I am not sure how anyone here can support this event seeing who's 'festival' it is.


eta the 'horses' bit is a mistake!


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## honetpot (18 August 2019)

My friend crewed a few years ago as a one off. What she told me, which was an open secret made me think that Itâ€™s all a fiddle. The report in the H&H the following week was so greasy it almost slid off the page.
 They have bought the â€˜sportâ€™so there is not a lot anyone can do.


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## ester (18 August 2019)

When they do comps over here are the horses shipped over or do they use horses trained over here does anyone know?


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## palo1 (18 August 2019)

Ghastly stuff.  Endurance has been going so badly wrong at the higher levels for so long now that it is effectively the normality of the sport.  Even though the grass roots is friendly and decent here I just can't understand what 'inspiration' riders get from the highest level of competition.  But people keep doing it, and most of them must know just how grim it is for the horses at the top- it is just bizarre!!


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## splashgirl45 (18 August 2019)

its about time this abuse of horses in top level endurance is stopped.  the fei needs to get tough and forget the money,,,


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## Steerpike (18 August 2019)

ester said:



			When they do comps over here are the horses shipped over or do they use horses trained over here does anyone know?
		
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They have their horses shipped over here and to Europe, mainly France, for training for the summer season.


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## Follysmum (18 August 2019)

Awful, Surely as a rider you know when your horse is tired. BUT they donâ€™t care.


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## ester (18 August 2019)

thanks steerpike  I suspected something like that but didn't know (while being aware that europe comps are quite different to those in group VII states. 

Re. the inspiration from those at the top, I suspect the top to those people isn't a desert race or what they put out, it's golden horseshoe, tevis etc.


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## Follysmum (18 August 2019)

IMO this is not endurance itâ€™s race riding. The distance is not the problem itâ€™s the speed. Over 25kph unbelievable


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## MotherOfChickens (19 August 2019)

there is a video on the Clean Endurance FB page of the horse already collapsed, she collapsed within two minutes of crossing the finish. The rider had never ridden her before.

rather predictability Endurance GB's post on its FB page has been taken down.


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## Follysmum (19 August 2019)

There is lots of posts on Facebook which quite rightly has got people upset and angry. I have competed there before and tbh I have no intention of riding there again amongst these people. 
They have no regard to animal welfare at all and make a mockery of what  most of us want out of our sport. 
They bring nothing but bad press for the sport.


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## ester (19 August 2019)

MotherOfChickens said:



			there is a video on the Clean Endurance FB page of the horse already collapsed, she collapsed within two minutes of crossing the finish. The rider had never ridden her before.

rather predictability Endurance GB's post on its FB page has been taken down.
		
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It makes you wonder if a rule of having to do x number of rides/length as a partnership would help? Rather than just having jockeys on horses.


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## Nicnac (19 August 2019)

ester said:



			It makes you wonder if a rule of having to do x number of rides/length as a partnership would help? Rather than just having jockeys on horses.
		
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That's a really good suggestion Ester.   So sad for the mare.


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## be positive (19 August 2019)

ester said:



			It makes you wonder if a rule of having to do x number of rides/length as a partnership would help? Rather than just having jockeys on horses.
		
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Not sure it would make them care any more, to these riders the horse is a tool not a living creature deserving of respect, this type of race riding seems to be about winning above everything else, endurance in the original form was about the horses welfare above everything else, winning was a bonus.


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## ester (19 August 2019)

Unfortunately I can't see making everyone do an empathy quotient test is going to go down well. 

I guess I was wondering whether it might mean they have more knowledge of the horse as a machine and it's limits rather than them actually caring any more.


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## Follysmum (19 August 2019)

I know most of the endurance folk have the Moto 
â€œTo finish is to winâ€


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## be positive (19 August 2019)

ester said:



			Unfortunately I can't see making everyone do an empathy quotient test is going to go down well.

I guess I was wondering whether it might mean they have more knowledge of the horse as a machine and it's limits rather than them actually caring any more.
		
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They might do but they might also break even more by going at faster speeds over the shorter distances to prove themselves capable and learn how fast the 'machine' can go. 
I hate the way endurance has become  a race with no horsemanship or skill required, racing is far better monitored in this country than endurance seems to be by the FEI who should take a stand and stop being so influenced by financial gain.


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## MotherOfChickens (19 August 2019)

ester said:



			It makes you wonder if a rule of having to do x number of rides/length as a partnership would help? Rather than just having jockeys on horses.
		
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I don't honestly think it would help with this particular mindset from this particular sector of endurance. One of the team won the event, another was eliminated (presented at 27min, eliminated with a HR of 71!). 

I've said before, the only FEI endurance ride I attended I reported a ME team (it might have been Qatar or UAE, I honestly can't remember) as one of the team could not ride, he could barely rise to the trot and they were in the longest ride of the day. I was togging so well away from anyone else and they twice passed me on that loop and his team mates were holding him on while he thumped around on this poor wee arab's back and hauled it in the mouth at every step. He wasn't just a poor rider, he was obviously scarcely a rider at all. I was told I must be mistaken!


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## sbloom (19 August 2019)

This makes me want to weep.


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## zaminda (19 August 2019)

It would make a difference if at least some of the rides to qualify for FEI had to be done by the person riding at FEI, as each person would have fewer horses available, and they couldn't buy ready made, which is what they currently do. This means that once a rider is qualified they can just do FEI. Unlimited money means unlimited horses.
They are talking about having a reduced speed depending on a horses completion rate too which is a good thing. My mare failed at Euston, and I would say with most they were being picky so this horse dying was even more traumatic. There are a lot of things that could be changed, which could be aimed at specific people, including having a maximum proportional weight in comparison to the horse being ridden rather than the current situation which has a minimum weight of 75kg for 160k rides regardless of the size of horse!
I would also like to see it made harder to qualify for FEI. At the moment it's 4 rides!


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## PapaverFollis (19 August 2019)

I really dont know much about endurance and haven't read much about what goes on a top level now although I think I get the gist... but would an optimum time help?... so there are penalties for going too fast.  And then a recovery and condition judged score maybe to separate those getting optimum time.

Sounds like something needs to change for sure.


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## hopscotch bandit (19 August 2019)

MotherOfChickens said:



			there is a video on the Clean Endurance FB page of the horse already collapsed, she collapsed within two minutes of crossing the finish. The rider had never ridden her before.

rather predictability Endurance GB's post on its FB page has been taken down.
		
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 And so the black curtain is put around her.... I wonder if that was to give those helping her a bit of privacy from the person filming?  Or instead was it put around her to hide the grim reality of Endurance riding at this level?


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## Amymay (19 August 2019)

PapaverFollis said:



			... but would an optimum time help?... so there are penalties for going too fast.  And then a recovery and condition judged score maybe to separate those getting optimum time.

Sounds like something needs to change for sure.
		
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I absolutely agree.


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## ester (19 August 2019)

TBF they always put screens up in any horse sport for a variety of reasons.


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## Elf On A Shelf (19 August 2019)

Screens are used all the time in racing. It provides a quiet, calm atmosphere for both horse and human to go about their jobs and sort themselves out. It doesn't always mean the worst.


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## palo1 (19 August 2019)

Nicnac said:



			That's a really good suggestion Ester.   So sad for the mare.
		
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This idea has been suggested many times but there is simply no real appetite for it within endurance.  Competitors either tend to ride their own horses or get almost anyone to ride!  There doesn't seem much middle ground.


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## hopscotch bandit (20 August 2019)

EKW said:



			Screens are used all the time in racing. It provides a quiet, calm atmosphere for both horse and human to go about their jobs and sort themselves out. It doesn't always mean the worst.
		
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*Deleted*


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## Mule (20 August 2019)

hopscotch bandit said:



			And so the black curtain is put around her.... I wonder if that was to give those helping her a bit of privacy from the person filming?  Or instead was it put around her to hide the grim reality of Endurance riding at this level?
		
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I can guess the answer to that one.


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## GreyMane (20 August 2019)

Just been looking at the Gallery on the website.
Photos seem to split into 
a) smiling women (on their own horses?)
b) poker faced young men who look like they could do with a good meal
What's with the dark glasses and tube scarves pulled up over riders' faces?


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## ester (20 August 2019)

sun and sand


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## GreyMane (20 August 2019)

ester said:



			sun and sand 

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like in Hong Kong?


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## {97702} (20 August 2019)

MotherOfChickens said:



			I've said before, the only FEI endurance ride I attended I reported a ME team (it might have been Qatar or UAE, I honestly can't remember) as one of the team could not ride, he could barely rise to the trot and they were in the longest ride of the day. I was togging so well away from anyone else and they twice passed me on that loop and his team mates were holding him on while he thumped around on this poor wee arab's back and hauled it in the mouth at every step. He wasn't just a poor rider, he was obviously scarcely a rider at all. I was told I must be mistaken!
		
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Genuine question, why does someone who cannot ride want to compete in this sort of event? It is a status thing for them? I really donâ€™t get it, as it must be hugely uncomfortable for the rider let alone the pain and discomfort they are inflicting on the horse â˜¹ï¸


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## palo1 (20 August 2019)

Levrier said:



			Genuine question, why does someone who cannot ride want to compete in this sort of event? It is a status thing for them? I really donâ€™t get it, as it must be hugely uncomfortable for the rider let alone the pain and discomfort they are inflicting on the horse â˜¹ï¸
		
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Well, they kind of have to I think - there is considerable status attached to riding for various teams and in certain places if a jockey is needed then just about anyone will do.   Some of the people riding, as employees, don't have a huge amount of choice in what jobs they do.  Some of those jockeys probably really want to get in to the riding element of the endurance circus for various reasons even if they are useless, others have money so can do what they like but are useless riders anyway. 

As for the full face coverings, well - it isn't always helpful to have an identifiable face on show you see...


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## MotherOfChickens (20 August 2019)

Levrier said:



			Genuine question, why does someone who cannot ride want to compete in this sort of event? It is a status thing for them? I really donâ€™t get it, as it must be hugely uncomfortable for the rider let alone the pain and discomfort they are inflicting on the horse â˜¹ï¸
		
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he didn't look like he was having any fun-when they were propping him up I thought maybe he had been taken ill but I think he ws just extremely knackered and hurt a fair bit. I guess its for the prestige.


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## MyBoyChe (21 August 2019)

I know nothing of the rules of endurance riding but the following come to mind...do they not have officials who red flag riders who either look as if they are hindering rather than assisting the horse or where a horse looks to be struggling, and secondly, is there an optimum time to complete a course, could penalties not be given for finishing too far off the optimum as well as over.  If it is simply about the fastest finisher assuming that horse then recovers within the permitted time, could they not hand out mandatory bans for anyone whose horse finishes distressed or doesnt recover quickly enough, anyone whose horse dies as a result of the way it has been ridden gets an automatic lifetime ban.  Am I being over simplistic?


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## splashgirl45 (21 August 2019)

you would think that they could have an optimum time like we have in eventing,  but it is all about the fastest finisher and it doesnt seem to matter if the horse dies, let alone if they are distressed.  the fei need to put their house in order as it is disgusting behaviour that should be punished with lifetime bans or prosecuting for animal cruelty...if one of us galloped a horse till it collapsed, we would be prosecuted so why not them,  i know why because money talks!!!!


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## MotherOfChickens (21 August 2019)

MyBoyChe said:



			I know nothing of the rules of endurance riding but the following come to mind...do they not have officials who red flag riders who either look as if they are hindering rather than assisting the horse or where a horse looks to be struggling, and secondly, is there an optimum time to complete a course, could penalties not be given for finishing too far off the optimum as well as over.  If it is simply about the fastest finisher assuming that horse then recovers within the permitted time, could they not hand out mandatory bans for anyone whose horse finishes distressed or doesnt recover quickly enough, anyone whose horse dies as a result of the way it has been ridden gets an automatic lifetime ban.  Am I being over simplistic?
		
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the rules are different between national (i.e. EnduranceGB) competitions and FEI although I don't know the ins and outs. I thought you could be penalised for going too fast tbh going up the grades (talking SERC rules here which I think must be the same as GB) but could be wrong. But in FEI rides they don't need to qualify on the horse they ride which I think is completely wrong and against the ethos of the sport. I also didn't realise that if a rider withdraws they are supposed to present their horse to the vet but if they don't, they are simply disqualified. To me that should mean a ban, the horse should  be checked by a vet.

At the endurance rides I've been to (and it was a little while ago) you have stewards directing people at junctions etc when necessary and of course vet gates, but its endurance, there's a fair distance involved even with loops so they can't be seen all the time. Vet gates will vet out horses if there is any sign of saddle issues, bridle/bit issues as well as lameness and heart rate. The sort of speeds seen here should be flagged up, even if the horse is recovering but the ME teams seemingly just want to go as fast as possible over flat land-its not endurance riding but racing. imo EnduranceGB shouldn't be having anything to do with this endurance festival.



Endurance at this level is ridiculously crooked, certain teams falsify results, races, qualifying rides, cover up horse deaths, dope, cheat and have hundreds of horses going through at their disposal. just look at the furore at WEG last time, the French team were so frustrated with the UAE carry on, they got into a punch up! Noone dare do anything about it.Its a world apart from the rest of endurance and its very sad that the entire discipline gets tarred with the same brush as those that ride their horses into the ground.


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## MyBoyChe (21 August 2019)

Thanks MoC, it sounds like its time to stand up and be counted, surely if its that crooked at the top its time for everyone else to bale out and set up a separate level for those with some morals and welfare standards!!


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## MotherOfChickens (21 August 2019)

MyBoyChe said:



			Thanks MoC, it sounds like its time to stand up and be counted, surely if its that crooked at the top its time for everyone else to bale out and set up a separate level for those with some morals and welfare standards!!
		
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well some are-I think EnduranceGB lost quite a few members after the last rift and there are those holding different types of ride off their own bat.


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## MyBoyChe (22 August 2019)

Well thats a start then and good to hear.  I know its difficult, sadly money talks.  Endurance isnt the only horse sport where those with the most money reign supreme


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## hopscotch bandit (22 August 2019)

mule said:



			I can guess the answer to that one.
		
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That's what I thought 
Remember how we were all treated to the video that was leaked out of the ex endurance horse on a prosthetic leg?  I think that's one of the saddest things I've ever seen.


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## Meowy Catkin (22 August 2019)

hopscotch bandit said:



			That's what I thought 
Remember how we were all treated to the video that was leaked out of the ex endurance horse on a prosthetic leg?  I think that's one of the saddest things I've ever seen.
		
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It's worse than that. https://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/shocking-leg-amputation-in-horses-videos-graphic-content-515453


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## ihatework (22 August 2019)

I know a vet (stud vet) who spent time in the Middle East doing stud work, but had colleagues doing sport, including endurance. What they saw gave them nightmares and they left before they were in a position they couldnâ€™t get out of. The stranglehold these rich owners have over their staff (including vets) is shocking. It was reported for severely broken down horses to be denerved from the knee down so they could continue to race.

Something has to be done to stop this corruption and cruelty.


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## hopscotch bandit (22 August 2019)

ihatework said:



			Something has to be done to stop this corruption and cruelty.
		
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I agree.  But we can't stop what I class as 'cultural cruelty' in this country (halal meat for one) so we stand little chance of stopping this type of cruelty in other countries although I support the charities that try.  THey say they don't pts animals over there due to cultural reasons yet they are happy to let them suffer cooped up in stables 24/7.  No doubt the poor hobbling creatures in the videos are unable to be turned out.


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## Follysmum (22 August 2019)

The saga continues with EGB 
Welfare board member has been suspended for â€œhistoric issueâ€ but according to Facebook peeps it seems she wanted to publish the welfare issue ðŸ™„
Seems a bit coincidental to me


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## ihatework (22 August 2019)

hopscotch bandit said:



			I agree.  But we can't stop what I class as 'cultural cruelty' in this country (halal meat for one) so we stand little chance of stopping this type of cruelty in other countries although I support the charities that try.  THey say they don't pts animals over there due to cultural reasons yet they are happy to let them suffer cooped up in stables 24/7.  No doubt the poor hobbling creatures in the videos are unable to be turned out.
		
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No we canâ€™t stop their cultural ethics about putting animals down but â€˜weâ€™ as in the international sporting community / FEI can have significant impact on various aspects of cruelty and corruption.
Tightening of endurance rules
Increased checks that the rules are adhered to
And strict sanctions for those not adhering to rules

The problem is that the FEI, for what I suspect is very complex reasons, are currently woefully inefficient in applying the above. The more pressure we put in the FEI, the more we expose the horrid reality, the more likely we are to help Middle Eastern horses born into the unfortunate sport of endurance.

My only fear is - that the region is expelled and goes it alone with desert racing, not under FEI. That would be tragic as they then set their own rules


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## MotherOfChickens (22 August 2019)

ihatework said:



			My only fear is - that the region is expelled and goes it alone with desert racing, not under FEI. That would be tragic as they then set their own rules
		
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this happened before I think? when Sheikh Mohammed was banned from endurance riding (by the FEI) for doping-he simply held his own races from what I remember. the only hope really is that these people really like being the best in the world and if they arent allowed to compete with the best in the world then maybe they might eventually rethink.


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## ester (22 August 2019)

I thought it had happened before too.


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## MotherOfChickens (22 August 2019)

for some balance-I found this quite interesting

https://horse-canada.com/cuckson-report/how-an-unsung-sheikh-has-forced-an-epiphany-in-endurance/

and a bit of background

https://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/endurance-stables-uae-fined-526033


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## DD (22 August 2019)

Alex Tennant has resigned. I think all this would make a great news article for H&H they could do with looking into it.


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## ester (22 August 2019)

don't be silly, they don't do real journalism any more, might publish the EGB statement and that will be that.


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## Clodagh (22 August 2019)

Downton Dame said:



			Alex Tennant has resigned. I think all this would make a great news article for H&H they could do with looking into it.
		
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She was pushed, wasn't she. I find the whole thing totally bizarre tbh! How any horse organisation can find these recurring situations even half way acceptable. And people get het up about the use of the whip in racing! I know that is because endurance doesn't get coverage but still.
How could anyone sell a horse to these people? Or even sell an endurance type arab full stop, in case it gets sold on.


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## honetpot (22 August 2019)

She has made a statement. I got this off of Facebook so I have no idea of the original source so I hope itâ€™s correct.

"Late yesterday evening I was informed by the Endurance GB Chair, Rebecca Kinnarney that I was suspended with immediate effect from the Endurance GB Board of Directors; pending an investigation.  I have discussed this with my family and decided to tender my resignation with immediate effect.  On Monday this week I circulated the following statement to the board and asked for it to be approved for publication.  â€œYesterday I learnt of the death of Ulla De Luc who had been competing in the CEIO 2*120km FEI team competition at Euston Park for the HH Sheikh Mohammed Bin Rashid Al Maktoum Festival organised by H Power. Large amounts of prize money were on offer with Â£5k going to the individual winner and Â£32k to the winning team. Ulla De Luc collapsed and died minutes after crossing the finish line having completed the last loop of the ride at 27.97kph and raced across the line for 1st position.   Endurance as a sport has always prided itself on the horsemanship skill shown by our riders, our stringent veterinary checks and how welfare is the number one priority. To compete at these speeds does not show this consideration by a rider; rather the aim is to extoll the maximum exertion from the horse and shows little to no consideration for their welfare.  As Welfare Director for Endurance GB I find it completely unacceptable that this horse legally could compete at these speeds on British soil â€“ this is not the sport I joined nor one I want to be in anyway associated with. I will be writing to the FEI to display my revulsion and insist that the new FEI endurance rules proposed by the Temporary Endurance Committee for speed caps and rider competency should be supported and immediately adopted on grounds of horse welfare. I would support lifetime bans for riders and trainers who have been proven to significantly contribute to the demise of their loyal steed.  I also encourage all riders / trainers / owners or those associated with endurance to write to their federations and offer their suggestions and lobby the FEI for change that is so desperately needed.  We cannot sit back and watch these deaths continue â€“ or FEI endurance and even endurance riding as a sport will cease to exist. We must support the faithful horses our sport should exist to protectâ€.  **Obviously, I am no longer the Welfare Director for Endurance GB and this is my own personal view and not that of any other director or the organisation Endurance GB.**  I would like to thank everyone who has supported me in anyway for my time on the board; especial thanks for the hard work and time given by my Development, Para, Young Rider and Welfare committees. You have all been brilliant and Iâ€™m proud of what we achieved together in a short time.   I am very sad and disappointed that my representation for the membership has ended this way and I hope I havenâ€™t let anyone down. When I stood for the board I was committed to serve the membership and be a voice for the horses of our sport.  Alex Tennant.


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## MotherOfChickens (22 August 2019)

If this situation is exactly what it looks like then its absolutely shocking that she's being dragged through the mud like this.


This is C&P'd from the Canadian site I linked to-it was written in 2016 but is damning, bold is mine -  "Completion rates over 25 per cent are still a rarity. At DIEC on December 12th, just *13* horses finished out of 76 (17 per cent). The same day at the Al Wathba CEN 100Km, the top five all recorded final loop speeds over *30 kph*.


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## Meowy Catkin (22 August 2019)

Clodagh said:



			How could anyone sell a horse to these people? Or even sell an endurance type arab full stop, in case it gets sold on.
		
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I know of breeders of show bred Arab horses that won't sell to certain countries because of welfare concerns. They have turned down big prices too - far more than the horse's actual value. It's not just the endurance horses sadly.


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## Mule (22 August 2019)

MotherOfChickens said:



			for some balance-I found this quite interesting

https://horse-canada.com/cuckson-report/how-an-unsung-sheikh-has-forced-an-epiphany-in-endurance/

and a bit of background

https://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/endurance-stables-uae-fined-526033

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I read about that man before. It's pretty impressive. It shows what can be done when there's the will to do it.
As for Dubai, endurance there will never reform when their ruler is one of the biggest rule breakers in the sport. Sloppy standards tend to spread anyway.


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## ester (22 August 2019)

She is the original source for that quote
EGB have refuted and said they can't say why and it has nothing to do with horses
Others have suggested it's to do with the disciplinary hearing for misconduct for not obeying orders when she was a PC and the BEF and local authority (?) told them to suspend and investigate.


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## Tardebigge (24 August 2019)

I am just an old bystander in horse related things now, but I am struck by the contrast between Charlotte Dujardins elimination for blood on the side of her horse and the death of yet another endurance horse. Both disciplines are regulated by the FEI. Why can they be so strict (rightfully) with one discipline, yet turn such a blind eye to genuine cruelty with another?


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## Follysmum (24 August 2019)

Because a certain man isnâ€™t involved in dressage ðŸ™„


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## MotherOfChickens (24 August 2019)

For anyone who cares to wade through it. The FEI are holding a consultation on proposed reforms in the sport. the UAE have offered up some alternatives.

https://horse-canada.com/cuckson-report/uae-endurance-letting-fox-rule-hen-house/


https://horse-canada.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/UAE-Recommendation-for-Endurance-Rules-2020.pdf


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## ester (24 August 2019)

Thanks for the links MoC, I feel like I might end up reading a few of their posts today.


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## Mule (24 August 2019)

MotherOfChickens said:



			For anyone who cares to wade through it. The FEI are holding a consultation on proposed reforms in the sport. the UAE have offered up some alternatives.

https://horse-canada.com/cuckson-report/uae-endurance-letting-fox-rule-hen-house/


https://horse-canada.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/UAE-Recommendation-for-Endurance-Rules-2020.pdf

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Pippa Cuckson is great. I read a lot of her articles. The UAE have some neck. I suppose they are also buying votes from federations in other countries. That would ensure voting goes their way.


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