# Worst dog breeds for new pet owners



## CorvusCorax (27 August 2013)

Just thieved this from Facebook, thought it was very interesting!


http://www.vetstreet.com/our-pet-ex...ts-choose-15-worst-breeds-for-new-pet-owners?

Many dog lovers believe theres no such thing as a bad dog, just bad training. And while we dont disagree that a good owner along with proper training and socialization can make a world of difference, we have to admit that some dog breeds are best suited to experienced owners.
Those very traits that make certain breeds so good at the jobs they were bred to do, like hunting big game and guarding their owners and property, can make them a challenge for someone whos never trained a dog before.

For instance, a dog bred for hunting, birding, working, or running long distances will work until his job is done, regardless of weather or distractions. When that same breed is kept as a family pet, his circumstances change, but his drive and instinct to go, go, go? Not so much. Therefore, he needs an owner whos prepared to work with that level of vitality to keep him from engaging in destructive behaviors.

And consider the traditional guard dog, bred to be on the alert for anything thats out of the ordinary. In his original job, that might mean keeping an eye out for dangers and predators, but as a member of the family, it means he needs firm and entirely consistent training. While some dogs might understand a good deal of nuance  that its OK to get on the couch with the kids, but not with Mom and Dad  a dog bred for guarding duties thrives on a dependable environment since knowing what is regular and routine is absolutely necessary to determine whats not.

Weve already shared what dogs veterinary professionals deemed best for new owners, and now were sharing which breeds those same 218 experts thought were the worst choices for first-time dog owners.

Please note: We dont mean to imply these are bad breeds, and in no case is any breed friendly or aggressive clear across the board. However, if youre a first-time, inexperienced dog owner, these are dogs you might want to wait to bring home until you have a few years of training under your belt.


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## Annette4 (27 August 2013)

I think it's certianly something to consider. There are breeds I would never consider getting (mostly working types) as I know I would not have the time, energy levels or skill to give them the life they thrive in. 

We struggle with Tia, and given my time again I'm not sure I would go for either breed/the same mix again. Luckily for me, brain training with a reasonable walk does for her during the week and she gets a much longer walk at weekends but as we still can't have her and Quila together in the house it is hard. 

I think to an extent, as long as you are realistic then any breed can be a first dog, but you have to be totally honest with yourself about what you want and what you can provide.


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## lexiedhb (27 August 2013)

I'd say any dog younger than 3 is no good for first time dog owners LOL-


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## PolarSkye (27 August 2013)

Interesting article . . . I would also add border collies to that list . . . in the wrong hands they can become neurotic, fear aggressive or just plain nuisances . . . they need massive amounts of socialization and they need bags of intellectual stimulation.  BCs are anything but couch potatoes . . . however, given enough to do and a firm but kind/patient hand they are wonderful, wonderful companions.  

I know all this because I have two (BC crosses with a high percentage of BC) . . . one taught me a massive amount - the hard way . . . and the other is an absolute joy (because the first one "trained" me in the fine art of BC ownership).  I love them both to pieces - but I would never recommend that dog novices own one as a first dog.

P


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## hayley.t (27 August 2013)

When I run puppy parties at work I always go round the group and discuss what each puppy is bred for and "problems" that might arise from this. I believe that a dog shouldn't be disciplined for a behaviour that has been sought after in the breed history. I am sometimes quite shocked that owners that have purchased a puppy do not know what they were originally bred for and how this might be implicated in their own puppies behaviour so I think this list is a good idea even if t just encourages would be owners to research breeds better.


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## MerrySherryRider (27 August 2013)

I wouldn't say any breed is bad for first time owners. Responsible owners buy dogs suited to their lifestyle, they educate themselves and ask for help if needed. If they are prepared put the work in and use commonsense most dogs will be well rounded members of the family.
 Match the dog to the owner and you're half way there. Numpties shouldn't have any dog, full stop.


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## bonny (27 August 2013)

I think it's got nothing to do with whether you've had dogs forever or your first dog and everything to do with common sense.....some people should never have any dog and some of those breeds should never be in a pet home. There is too much fashion now with owning a dog and too much status involved. So few people now seem to just want a family dog.


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## bonny (27 August 2013)

Cross posted with Horserider ! Think we're saying the same thing......


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## CorvusCorax (27 August 2013)

I think plenty of people want a 'family dog', but they want a 'family dog' that looks a certain way, fashion as you say...then find out when it is too late about square pegs and round holes!!


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## stencilface (27 August 2013)

Glad that the one major attribute they missed off the breeds that make up my mongrel (gsd x rottie) is a vitally important one, being sleeps most of the time and especially enjoys a good snooze on the sofa. Some of those breeds it would never occur to me to get, whilst I think I have a reasonably active lifestyle, I know it's nowhere near active enough for some of the running breeds.


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## s4sugar (27 August 2013)

Not impressed with the article nor with the one on best breeds but they are based on vets in the USA. "218 experts"? How many could name fifty breeds off the top of their heads?
On my last trip to a vet school one of the later year students told me she was planning to buy a goldendoodle because they were such wonderful dogs - she had swallowed the sales pitch right down to the non shedding!


As above the right breed for a home is the one that fits in.

 I grew up with Dobermanns, brilliant dogs with the family but would guard against visitors. For us they were fantastic but in a home without direct access to a garden they would have been difficult.


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## misterjinglejay (27 August 2013)

hayley.t said:



			When I run puppy parties at work I always go round the group and discuss what each puppy is bred for and "problems" that might arise from this. I believe that a dog shouldn't be disciplined for a behaviour that has been sought after in the breed history. I am sometimes quite shocked that owners that have purchased a puppy do not know what they were originally bred for and how this might be implicated in their own puppies behaviour so I think this list is a good idea even if t just encourages would be owners to research breeds better.
		
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Absolutely agree!


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## Dobiegirl (27 August 2013)

I too would add Border Collies to that list and  Dobermanns, having had 3 now about 18months old who the owners had ********d up they are not a dog for the novice. Having said that a first time owner who was prepared to put the work and training in  and had thoroughly researched the breed and was happy to work with that should not be dismissed and that goes for any breed in that list.


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## CorvusCorax (27 August 2013)

I did a tonne of research before buying a dog of a breed I had lived with all my life, just a different strain. 
I went to competitions and training classes and I stayed in houses with people who had the type of dog I was interested in. I knew both his parents and I met him before I bought him.
And I STILL made big mistakes with my management when the dog finally did arrive home


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## Dobiegirl (27 August 2013)

haha CC, I read up on Dobes for 10yrs before getting one lol, I was not ott but wanted my daughter to grow up first, not that I thought they were vicious but rather because she may not have had many friends back to play.

Whilst I waited I had Lancashire Heelers and they were challenging in their own way, they will nip the heels of people(its a breed trait) but we overcame that and I worked them. They were brilliant with our cattle, nothing however big fazed them and were great rat and rabbit catchers.

I would add them to that list along with Patterdales.


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## CorvusCorax (27 August 2013)

Anything with a strong genetic compulsion to execute a certain behaviour then!!


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## hayley.t (27 August 2013)

misterjay said:



			Absolutely agree!
		
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Thnk you


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## Alec Swan (27 August 2013)

So,  let's see now;  We've discounted Sheepdogs,  I'll add to that,  most Spaniels,  with showbred Cockers being kept clear of children,  the guard breeds can,  if they're allowed to,  develop a mind of their own and the next step is 'phoning the local Police dog section and asking if they've a need for such an animal,  all workbred terriers,  without exception!  Then we have,  it seems,  just about any dog which was bred for a purpose,  but even now a century on,  still shows a leaning,  and amongst them would be the breeds which are bred as sled dogs,  those breeds which where obedience and compliance was never a necessity,  and to those we can add probably ALL of the hounds,  including most of the coursing breeds.  Amongst such breeds are probably most of those which are natural herders,  check with HM if you don't believe me,  her bloody corgis are a menace.  We mustn't forget Dalmatians,  EBTs can be a bit of a challenge,  but only because they really are dim or deaf,  or a mixture of both. 

What do we have left?  The toy and ornamental breeds can be snappy miserable little sods.  What we need is for someone to breed the ideal dog for the idiot and the ill-informed,  and then they can write a book,  The Idiot's Guide to Dog Ownership.

Before anyone rears up and tells me that they've got a dog which is the complete opposite of the breed norm,  good for you,  most live with their mistakes.

All of the above's a bit tic,  but as you say C_C,  those breeds with,  as you put it,  a strong genetic compulsion,  really aren't for the novice , or the first time dog owner,  but I'm none to sure about the remainder,  either!

Alec.


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## blackcob (27 August 2013)

hayley.t said:



			When I run puppy parties at work I always go round the group and discuss what each puppy is bred for and "problems" that might arise from this.
		
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I might have to steal this idea for our next puppy party if that's ok? Very good idea. At the last one I was flabbergasted to find that every single puppy in the room was being fed on Bakers and the script went a bit out of the window. 

I have one of the listed breeds and I wouldn't recommend them to anyone, even an experienced dog owner. They're truly a crap pet dog and as a worker the training, kit, permits, travelling, camping in bloody February etc. is prohibitive.


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## MurphysMinder (27 August 2013)

Well I have to admit I would never have sold a GSD puppy to someone who had not owned a dog before, but I have also refused to sell pups to people who have owned dogs for several years, including GSDs, yet still hadn't the first idea of dog ownership imho.  Not too impressed with their "best breeds" list, 4 designer crosses on there, although at least they make fleeting reference to the fact that as they are crosses they may not have the breed virtues aimed for.


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## hayley.t (27 August 2013)

blackcob said:



			I might have to steal this idea for our next puppy party if that's ok? Very good idea. At the last one I was flabbergasted to find that every single puppy in the room was being fed on Bakers and the script went a bit out of the window. 

I have one of the listed breeds and I wouldn't recommend them to anyone, even an experienced dog owner. They're truly a crap pet dog and as a worker the training, kit, permits, travelling, camping in bloody February etc. is prohibitive.
		
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ha ha, love the bakers chat, I've just had to have it with OH cousin, he changed the puppy to bakers and pedigree chum with no switch over and wondered why it had D+! yeah that is fine, I usually talk about what the dog was bred for, behaviours that this might lead to and then ways to encourage the behaviours in a positive way e.g. a terrier that wants to dig in the garden- provide a sand pit with toys buried in to look for.


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## blackcob (27 August 2013)

Very difficult to have the food chat when you're surrounded by towering displays of Pro Plan as well, people think you're just trying to flog them expensive food! I wouldn't recommend anything we stock TBH which is a tad awkward. 

As nice as the puppy parties are I'd much rather a pre-puppy-party to give advice before they go out and buy them, too many designer crosses and obviously puppy farmed dogs. A couple of the latter have been real heartache already.


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## TarrSteps (28 August 2013)

I'm amazed how few people know what their dogs are "for" and what sort of considerations those inbred compulsions might necessitate.  You would think people would at least be interested!!

I guess part of the problem is it can be as much about the individuals as a breed so people meet a few members - which may or may not be representative - and extrapolate.  Look how many people on the horsey sections here go on about "what Dutch horses are like" or "cobs can/can't. . .).  There are generalities - which must be considered - and then there are individual aspects. I have recently been taking a dog to hydrotherapy and on the basis of that experience I'd never have a Labrador!  They are overrepresented in the broken dog pool )) and many of them are atrociously behaved, often with laughing/doting owners letting them run riot.


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## lurcherlu (28 August 2013)

I've got saluki saturated lurchers and love them however the saluki is damn stubborn, can be aloof and aggressive. I hate it when people get a rescue lurcher of sighthound and try to train it not to chase and blame its chase instinct on gypsies who owned it before when 9/10 these dogs have come from families or strays and not from gypsies or travellers. Why get a highly prey driven dog and try to change nature, it's like getting an Arab and asking it not to float across the ground,or a cob and hoping it won't have a fat ass lol. People also confuse these lurchers and other sighthounds with greyhounds and assume they won't want to run or go on long walks anther myth, greys tend to live a run etc just don't get given the chance a lot


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## Jesstickle (28 August 2013)

I never expect my lurcher not to want to chase but I certainly did expect him not to if I told him not to! Having a sight hound isn't an excuse for not training recall surely?!

Not to say he was perfect and he caught himself plenty of bunnies in his life and even a hare or two in his yoof the little sod but I think it is perfect acceptable to train them to stop chasing something if it means they are about to run out on to the road!


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## lurcherlu (28 August 2013)

Jesstickle said:



			I never expect my lurcher not to want to chase but I certainly did expect him not to if I told him not to! Having a sight hound isn't an excuse for not training recall surely?!

Not to say he was perfect and he caught himself plenty of bunnies in his life and even a hare or two in his yoof the little sod but I think it is perfect acceptable to train them to stop chasing something if it means they are about to run out on to the road!
		
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To expect them not to chase small flurries and quarry..... Mine both come back when called, but when having a run around the field I'd never expect them not to chase rabbits etc. mine both work and are both rescued , they are stock broken and never chase livestock. I lamp with them so they get to use what nature gave them. Don't ever think my dogs aren't trained they are some of the best behaved dogs I know, but I'd never ever expect them to stop having a high prey drive and chase instinct


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## stencilface (28 August 2013)

TarrSteps said:



			and many of them are atrociously behaved, often with laughing/doting owners letting them run riot.
		
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Gah!  This.  I can't tell you how many (predominantly black) labradors have had a pop at my friendly dog, whether he is on the lead, or off it (and he's only off if both all dogs are off the lead iykwim - I won't let him run up to a dog on the lead) Their owners stare at me likely its my fault, or give them a cuddle saying 'they're just protective of me' :mad3:  Thing is now my dog is starting to get wary of black labs!


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## Leo Walker (28 August 2013)

I've got a whippet and a whippety type lurcher. The lurcher would be fine in pretty much any home. The whippet is working bred and would not! He was my first dog as an adult, and I came from a background of spaniels/setters. By god did I get a shock! The people who told me wbippets need a 20min run once a day should be shot! I had 6 months where I despaired and we just didnt understand each other. Then I got some help from a behaviourist, started to understand his thinking and changed my entire life to suit him. I adore him beyond words, I just wish I'd known what I know now when I got him. He was on his 3rd home in 13 weeks so came with his fair share of baggage and I did soo many things wrong I'm surprised hes turned out as well as he has 

If I hadnt been in a position to change my life to suit him, or if I hadnt wanted to I would have had no option other than to PTS as I'm pretty sure no one would have wanted a demented adolescent whippet who couldnt even be left in another room on his own for 30seconds and stole anything he could get to, including things inside cupboards!

I'm a classic example of someone who thinks they understand what they are getting, but really hasnt got a clue! If I'd stuck to my original plan of going to a good breeder then I think things might have been different, but no, I had to get a working bred, messed up 13 week old puppy off an ad on Facebook. Talk about setting yourself up to fail! I'm grateful every day that I did though!


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## dianeholmes (28 August 2013)

What a very interesting thread! I am on my 4th and 5th labs and what a varied experience it has been - 3 have been puppies and 2 rescued as adults. My first was black and a dream of a dog rescued from the vets where he had been taken to be put down as he was an inconvenience, the second another adult rescue from the cat and dog shelter with some serious dog to dog aggression issues, the third a choccy pup who was the most loving but very worried dog ever and now we have 2 working strain lab pups of similar age, one of whom is blind. These two last ones are seriously intelligent and a joy to train. We love walking and are intending to do agility with the sighted dog.

I have met problem labs with the wrong owners, some have been dogs with strong personalities who properly trained and handled would have been wonderful. So I think my view would be matching of breed attribute to owner potential and experience is vital!


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## TarrSteps (28 August 2013)

Stencilface said:



			Gah!  This.  I can't tell you how many (predominantly black) labradors have had a pop at my friendly dog, whether he is on the lead, or off it (and he's only off if both all dogs are off the lead iykwim - I won't let him run up to a dog on the lead) Their owners stare at me likely its my fault, or give them a cuddle saying 'they're just protective of me' :mad3:  Thing is now my dog is starting to get wary of black labs! 

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Especially if they still have their nuts! If one more person tells me they don't want to neuter their crippled Labrador I will scream. If you don't want to neuter your dog, fine. Personal choice. But then stop letting it hump every other dog it meets!!!!!

Sigh. I feel better now.

I did watch a Lab pull its large male owner over on pea gravel the other day, that gave me a laugh. 

If you've ever been to Labrador and seen sea rescue dogs you would never underestimate them again. Inhospitable doesn't begin to describe that environment.


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## Goldenstar (28 August 2013)

Me , I love labs they are great dogs but complete fools if they get no direction.


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## CorvusCorax (28 August 2013)

I can't remember who said it on here, apologies, it may have been Spudlet, but the film Marley and Me, and unscrupulous breeders who jumped on the back of it, (and, my own edit, Pedigree Dogs Exposed and the 'show breeders are baaaaad' message) have done the breed no favours.

We got gobbed off at by a pair last night but it wasn't their fault, they looked as though they'd never been walked, and we also got gobbed off at by the pack of bichacavapoowotsits and I have got so fed up with it I ended up saying to the owner that it wouldn't be acceptable the other way around (three offlead GSDs running up to an onlead, tiny white dog barking and snarling). /rant!!


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## Arizahn (29 August 2013)

The amount of badly behaved Labradors around here is shocking. And JRTs too. Have noticed a rise in the number of Husky types - tend to see them a lot as small pups, then they seem to disappear


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## TarrSteps (29 August 2013)

You're not in Surrey, are you? 

The Husky thing mystifies me on many levels. Partly because I had a dog that had a good dollop in her - although mostly she looked like a coyote. . .) and she LIVED for winter. She'd lie on the lawn in -20C in her little ice bed, and she loved running in the snow more than anything.  I wouldn't want a dog I loved to be denied something so innate to its purpose and nature and I can't see how you could substitute another situation for that here. I feel very bad for all the ones I see being leash walked on urban commons.


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## PucciNPoni (29 August 2013)

Sorry, haven't read any of the responses - but as CC has already mentioned, that inappropriate breeds are more to do with the dog's intended lifestyle and what the breed was meant to do - not matching.  Too often I see this to be the case - people getting a working cocker for a sedentary life style and the dog ends up frustrated.  Other mismatches that occur to me are coated breeds where people haven't done the research in to how much maintenance / upkeep they require and then come in to be shaved off once a year (or worse, with owner's expectations of having them look like a show dog after a year of neglect). 

I think it more or less just comes down to people buying on impulse (or perhaps merely on looks) or without much consideration for the actual breed's requirements and the knowledge on handling/care and expecting the dog to automatically fit in. 

But the most common mismatches I see are elderly first time owners with feisty terriers, young families with coated breeds (ie Lhasa/shih Tzu/ bichon) and parents expecting the four year old child to do the maintenance, apartment dwellers and not much time to spend people with collies.  

So as you can see, it's (IMO) not about the specific breed per se - it's more to do with the expectations and then reality of dog ownership not be fully thought out. 

Easy, eh?


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## Cinnamontoast (29 August 2013)

The 'not good for newbies' list includes big dogs, the 'good for newbies' list is mostly toy breeds, so easier to control. Hmm. On the good list is a pug. It might be a really brilliant dog for an inexperienced owner re temperament, but it's not a breed I'd ever recommend for an inexperienced person cos of the health issues.


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## satinbaze (29 August 2013)

Try looking up the Buli Kutta probably the most unsuitable dog in the world. My dog warden friend has come across a couple of then and thinks they are a ticking time bomb!!!!!!!


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## CorvusCorax (29 August 2013)

Or the big central Asian flock guardians..
The size of a small family saloon, bred to be on their own all day guarding stuff and being prepared to bite things that come near the stuff that they are guarding. But they look coooool!!!!


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## s4sugar (29 August 2013)

satinbaze said:



			Try looking up the Buli Kutta probably the most unsuitable dog in the world. My dog warden friend has come across a couple of then and thinks they are a ticking time bomb!!!!!!!
		
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Absolutely!

Unfortunately I think we have one locally - his previous dog was a Dogo, sorry Great Dane cross, that had form for attacking dogs & biting owners who intervened and then the guy & dog made a quick exit.


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## ecrozier (30 August 2013)

Interesting thread. I wonder if the fact its am American list influenced the absence of border collies on there as I would definitely have included them here! 

I think those above who say its probably more to do with the owner than the breed are correct though. My first dog was a Rottweiler (unintentionally, he was a friend's dog whose circumstances changed and I took him at 6 months old). He has never been a problem and is the soppiest friendliest dog ever. But they talk about strength etc - well, not compared to 500kg of horse, so I think if you are used to dealing with and expecting manners from horses, you are one step towards keeping a dog 'in check'! Not to say all horse owners control their dogs.... But actually not all control their horses!! 
I also see so many idiotic owners with dogs that are entirely unsuitable for them, but then some of them shouldn't have dogs at all as far as I can see - many who buy the latest 'trend', such as the cavapoos etc, don't train any kind of recall, so either utterly lose control in the park or never let them off lead and the poor things spend their lives dragging their owners around choking themselves!! I guess the only difference is that the majority of people will laugh that behaviour off from a small fluffy, whereas if it was my Rott, he would probably have been in trouble very early on!!


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## w1bbler (30 August 2013)

As many have said, first time owners need to think realistically about what they want / need. As a first time dog owner I took on a 3rd hand Australian cattle dog - which is on the list. She had been bought as a pup by a family living in the middle of a large city & spent most of her day locked up as she was too boisterous!
She was given away & 2nd owner found her untrainable, which is when we decided to "have a go". Sounds disasterous, but I wanted a dog to come riding with me & husband wanted a running companion. She most days.comes out for a 2-3 hour hack & regularly gets a 5 or so mile evening run. She is the best companion & very well behaved because her needs (lots of excercise) are met. Training wise we hadn't a clue & it should have been a disaster, but actually it the right type of breed for what we wanted in a dog, so it works.


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## Kaylum (30 August 2013)

horserider said:



			I wouldn't say any breed is bad for first time owners. Responsible owners buy dogs suited to their lifestyle, they educate themselves and ask for help if needed. If they are prepared put the work in and use commonsense most dogs will be well rounded members of the family.
 Match the dog to the owner and you're half way there. Numpties shouldn't have any dog, full stop.
		
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Exactly there is no excuse for ignorance. When we got our first dog she was a stray. We bought a book on how to look after dogs. 17 years later mum still had her.


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## Spring Feather (4 September 2013)

CaveCanem said:



			Or the big central Asian flock guardians..
The size of a small family saloon, bred to be on their own all day guarding stuff and being prepared to bite things that come near the stuff that they are guarding. But they look coooool!!!!
		
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Lol I have 3 of them and yes they are incredibly cool dogs.  Definitely not suitable for any 'pet' owners, let alone new ones.  I absolutely worship my guardian dogs though.  I've had dogs all my life (mostly GSDs and Border Collies) but guardian dogs are like no other breeds around.  They're so unique and independent and loving and cuddly and virtually untrainable lol!  :smile3:


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## Alexart (4 September 2013)

Agree with the above, I've got an Ovcharka and I hate to think if a novice/pet owner bought one!!:O  They really are a breed apart from all others, they are loyal and very friendly to their owners and anyone who is OK'd onto their territory but they're also stubborn, will argue if they disagree on something and mine is not even motivated by food or praise so very hard to train, sit, down, paw, drop it (useful when he's using the JRT as a squeaky toy!) and recall when he feels like it are about as far as we've got and he's 2, his latest trick to avoid being shut in the kennels when we have visitors who don't like dogs is to just roll over and go totally limp so leaving us dragging 8 stone of fur into a stable upside down - trouble is I can't stop laughing when he does it!!  Yet they are so cute and fluffy as pups I'm sure to the unsuspecting puppy buyer they are just a big cuddly ball of fluff - mine lives out 24/7 and has the farm to patrol day and night and that is what he lives for and the colder the weather the better, we gave up keeping him in at night when he was about 5 months old after he put his head straight through a window to bark at the postman - he was totally fine btw!!  
I've seen those bully cutta things for sale too and I've heard folk crossing ovcharkas with neapolitan mastiffs, cuttas and pitbulls - can you imagine that - I hate to think - they are so easy to buy as well!!!
I agree with collies too - folk see them on the TV doing all the obedience/flyball/agility etc and automatically think that is what they do and no input is required - we had a few first time owners like that into the vets and they couldn't understand why their cheap but cute puppy from a local farm is now a year old unsocialised, untrained, unexercised and is herding and nipping their flock of kids and having them pts as a result!!!  Huskies, most terriers, some hounds and high prey drive dogs I think also need to be off a first time owners list - trouble is most first time owners tend to go on the dogs looks alone and not what the breed was bred for or what they actually need!


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## NinjaPony (4 September 2013)

It angers me so much how many problems people could avoid by doing a simple google search on their chosen breed. Wikipedia usually says enough to flag up any big problems, or the breed club preferably. That's all it takes, so it is very frustrating when people end up with a dog that is totally unsuitable for them. And then the dog gets the blame.


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## Girlracer (4 September 2013)

PolarSkye said:



			Interesting article . . . I would also add border collies to that list . . . in the wrong hands they can become neurotic, fear aggressive or just plain nuisances . . . they need massive amounts of socialization and they need bags of intellectual stimulation.  BCs are anything but couch potatoes . . . however, given enough to do and a firm but kind/patient hand they are wonderful, wonderful companions.  

I know all this because I have two (BC crosses with a high percentage of BC) . . . one taught me a massive amount - the hard way . . . and the other is an absolute joy (because the first one "trained" me in the fine art of BC ownership).  I love them both to pieces - but I would never recommend that dog novices own one as a first dog.

P
		
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Totally agree. 

Currently doing the being taught by the first one bit....

Would definitely have another but would do things differently from the start. 

A very complex breed and having spoken to canine 'novices' so to speak, and realising their total inability to understand quite how hard it is to give a complex animal such as a BC a good life I definitely wouldn't reccomend them to novice owners. 

A truely wonderful breed none the less. My dachshund however, lowest maintenance dog you'll ever meet BUT she requires as much running as the BC to be settled and quiet and can be a bit bone idle in her work, but just the same as the BC they were bred for a job and should be treated as such. She is a very 'sporty' dachshund rather than the fashionable 'sausage dogs' you get a lot of.


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## Spring Feather (4 September 2013)

Alexart said:



			Agree with the above, I've got an Ovcharka and I hate to think if a novice/pet owner bought one!!:O  They really are a breed apart from all others
		
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Is yours a Caucasian Ovcharka?  A friend of mine over here has 2 of them.  Does your have ears?  My friend's ones only have the little stumps.  I don't imagine many people have Ovcharkas in the UK?  They are definitely not for most normal households that's for sure and are renowned as one of the most challenging of the Livestock Guardian Dog breeds.  Any piccies of yours?

I have 2 Akbash and 1 Maremma (aswell as my other very well trained shepherds and collies) and the original Akbash is now around 6 years old and oh my I love her so much!  However between 9 months and 2 or 3 years old I honestly could have torn my hair out with her.  She was just nothing like any dog I had ever owned before in my life, and I'm a pretty experienced dog person.  There was very little research I had to go on when I started looking at buying an Akbash as they were so rare at the time, so I had to kind of wing it with the first Akbash.  The other two LGDs were a breeze after her as I had so much more actual experience under my belt by then.  I understand them now and I know how to 'train' what is important to them ie. their land boundaries.  That was the hardest thing with my first one, trying to get her to figure out where she could go and where she couldn't.  There's a saying over here 'Give an Akbash 100 acres and they'll take 200!' and I lived this for a while, constantly having to go racing off in the truck to head her off and chase her back onto the farm.  But she's good as gold now.  She still does her patrolling but I know her timetable and where she goes.  The other 2 guardian dogs are actually very good at coming back when called, and she is pretty good too although she does everything in her own time.  If I call her, I know for sure that she'll be back at the farmhouse within 15 minutes and I can live with that.


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## hula (7 September 2013)

Just looked through that list and found it interesting.

All dogs are individuals. We are now onto our third rottie (she's 7) and now have a rescue irish wolfhound x (7 months). 

The rottie is unlike any of the other rotties (or dog) we have had before. We have brought them all up in the same way. She is highly intelligent, opinionated, stubborn, lazy at times and has a very strong guarding instinct. She is also very loving, but I dread to think what would have happened if a novice had bought her over us, as she still has her moments. 

Saying that the rottie we had before was a gentle giant, very biddable. The vet even used to comment on how good she was. My youngest cousin (7 at the time) used to walk her (under supervision). I would have totally recommended her as a first dog. Sadly she was pts at 8 due to suddenly falling ill over the course of a week. After an X-ray we believed she had one tumour in her abdomen, so she went to surgery to have it removed. It was then we discovered that she was riddled with cancer, in such an agressive form that the vet reckoned she had only had it 4-6 weeks.

The wolfhound x/lurcher type we have again is different to any of the rotties. You can certainly see the sight hound qualities. 

Another difference... The rottie is on a constant diet as she is very prone to putting the beef on. The wolfhound x came to us very underweight after being a stray and is like feeding a bottomless pit and is still underweight! So any advice is appreciated!


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## Arizahn (7 September 2013)

hula said:



			Just looked through that list and found it interesting.

All dogs are individuals. We are now onto our third rottie (she's 7) and now have a rescue irish wolfhound x (7 months). 

The rottie is unlike any of the other rotties (or dog) we have had before. We have brought them all up in the same way. She is highly intelligent, opinionated, stubborn, lazy at times and has a very strong guarding instinct. She is also very loving, but I dread to think what would have happened if a novice had bought her over us, as she still has her moments. 

Saying that the rottie we had before was a gentle giant, very biddable. The vet even used to comment on how good she was. My youngest cousin (7 at the time) used to walk her (under supervision). I would have totally recommended her as a first dog. Sadly she was pts at 8 due to suddenly falling ill over the course of a week. After an X-ray we believed she had one tumour in her abdomen, so she went to surgery to have it removed. It was then we discovered that she was riddled with cancer, in such an agressive form that the vet reckoned she had only had it 4-6 weeks.

The wolfhound x/lurcher type we have again is different to any of the rotties. You can certainly see the sight hound qualities. 

Another difference... The rottie is on a constant diet as she is very prone to putting the beef on. The wolfhound x came to us very underweight after being a stray and is like feeding a bottomless pit and is still underweight! So any advice is appreciated!
		
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I would suggest worming her if she is due and having her checked by your vet in case of thyroid or pancreas issues.


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## hula (7 September 2013)

Ahhh I didn't even think of thyroid issues. Thanks!


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## DabDab (8 September 2013)

Stencilface said:



			Gah!  This.  I can't tell you how many (predominantly black) labradors have had a pop at my friendly dog, whether he is on the lead, or off it (and he's only off if both all dogs are off the lead iykwim - I won't let him run up to a dog on the lead) Their owners stare at me likely its my fault, or give them a cuddle saying 'they're just protective of me' :mad3:  Thing is now my dog is starting to get wary of black labs! 

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I have to say I am not a fan of labs either - About 5 years ago when I was looking after my parents' dog (parsons jack Russell) I had two chocolate labs rip into him for no apparent reason while out walking. One had hold of his neck and while I had my hand in its mouth trying to get him to let go (eventually I walloped him round the head to get him to let go), the owner was shrieking and flapping her hands around. She didn't even manage to get hold of the other one who darted in just before I removed the first one, grabbed at my parents' dog's leg and peeled the skin off it like a banana. He is now a three legged dog.

And her explanation? "they must have picked up some bad vibes from your dog". GIVE ME STRENGTH.
I do genuinely think that there should be some test and licensing process for people to own dogs.

When it comes to breeds - I have a kelpie and as lovely as he is I wouldn't necessarily recommend that breed to a novice owner. Just purely because, even putting the exercise requirement aside, they are very intelligent and sensitive, but yet incredibly willful dogs, so I think they would probably get very upset by unclear training. Fortunately they are not very fashionable to be kept as pets.


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## Llanali (9 September 2013)

CaveCanem said:



			Anything with a strong genetic compulsion to execute a certain behaviour then!! 

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Alec Swan said:



			Then we have,  it seems,  just about any dog which was bred for a purpose,  but even now a century on,  still shows a leaning,  and amongst them would be the breeds which are bred as sled dogs,  those breeds which where obedience and compliance was never a necessity,  and to those we can add probably ALL of the hounds,  including most of the coursing breeds.  


All of the above's a bit tic,  but as you say C_C,  those breeds with,  as you put it,  a strong genetic compulsion,  really aren't for the novice , or the first time dog owner,  but I'm none to sure about the remainder,  either!

Alec.
		
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lurcherlu said:



			I've got saluki saturated lurchers and love them however the saluki is damn stubborn, can be aloof and aggressive. I hate it when people get a rescue lurcher of sighthound and try to train it not to chase and blame its chase instinct on gypsies who owned it before when 9/10 these dogs have come from families or strays and not from gypsies or travellers. Why get a highly prey driven dog and try to change nature, it's like getting an Arab and asking it not to float across the ground,or a cob and hoping it won't have a fat ass lol. People also confuse these lurchers and other sighthounds with greyhounds and assume they won't want to run or go on long walks anther myth, greys tend to live a run etc just don't get given the chance a lot
		
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Jesstickle said:



			I never expect my lurcher not to want to chase but I certainly did expect him not to if I told him not to! Having a sight hound isn't an excuse for not training recall surely?!

Not to say he was perfect and he caught himself plenty of bunnies in his life and even a hare or two in his yoof the little sod but I think it is perfect acceptable to train them to stop chasing something if it means they are about to run out on to the road!
		
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All of these, except JT I'm afraid- some lurchers, yes you will be able to train to stop chasing. Some, you will NOT. 

A Bedlington/whippet may well be stoppable, a pure saluki highly unlikely. 

I breed salukis, I have a coming up for 60 year old blood line, that is our pride and joy and well renowned internationally- not boasting, I "inherited" the line after many years assessment by its founder. 

I wouldn't home a saluki
With a first time owner- yes, they are beautiful with people and children, yes they sleep 20 hours a day, yes they are clean and quiet. But they chase to kill, they are aloof and not very "friendly" as such. Letting a saluki off in the park is a recipe for disaster for many, that chihuahua is lunch if it runs. 

I made a mistake once a year ago. and have just dealt with it this week. I homed a saluki with a well known whippet lady, who came highly recommended. She is hugely experienced with whippets and greyhounds, and I thought made a good saluki match.

Sadly not. She contacted me telling me she had had issues as he had chased a papillon she had staying with her and bitten it. It had really rattled her. An hour on the phone and it became clear she might have had this saluki a year but she still had no idea. She told me he wouldn't say hello to strangers, and that he would sprint after pheasants on an estate.... :0 well no, he won't bound to a stranger like Lassie, and WHAT THE **** did you think you were doing letting a saluki off on a game reserve!!! 
Obviously, I went to
Collect him immediately- we always, always have dogs back, though fortunately it's only ever been due to bereavement before. 
Any way, I have re homed him this week to a saluki home. First time I homed a saluki to a non previous saluki home and look where it got me and the dog. 

My point was, that there are breeds not suited to novices, but that those novices aren't necessarily first time owners of any dog, but first time
Owners of a specific type. 

I wouldn't home a saluki with a Labrador owner unless they were a huge exception to
Some generalisation- as above, the people that laugh and dote on the lab that legs it around out of control shagging legs, might not be first time owners but would be disastrous for a saluki,


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## Leo Walker (9 September 2013)

A saluki is a totally different kettle of fish to a whippet. Especially if she had the small showing type whippets. My Oh tends to think my working bred whippet is very badly behaved a lot of the time, well he did until I took him to a lure racing event. Now he understands that what he thinks is "naughtiness" is actually just his natural instincts, and actually he is pretty well behaved for a whippet/lurcher. But if something runs, unless I'm really, really quick, hes going to chase it, he cant help himself

I love the look of salukis, I saw a video of them working antelopes out in the desert. The owners were following in jeeps while the pack of salukis ran and ran and ran in what must have been boiling temperatures. Amazing dogs! but no way could I manage one!


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## SadKen (10 September 2013)

If you aren't prepared to walk it, don't buy it - no matter what breed it is!

On the 'must have owned this breed before' I fully appreciate why this edict would be made and think it's sensible.  However, how does one manage to get one's first ever type of the breed in the first place? My OH got a GSD who was a superstar (later my stepdog) with no trouble, but we had to audition for our current two, showing pics of our old lad and explaining the care routine.  As I say - sensible, and made us feel happy we were buying from people who cared where they went, but must be tricky the first time you want a dog of a particular breed!


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## Spring Feather (10 September 2013)

SadKen said:



			If you aren't prepared to walk it, don't buy it - no matter what breed it is!
		
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None of the dogs I own at the moment have ever been on a walk in their lives.


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## blackcob (10 September 2013)

Perhaps that should read 'work' rather than walk!

I'd wear my legs down to stumps trying to walk mine sufficiently, we cover a lot more ground with wheels on. And this week it's finally cold enough to do some distance. Yay!


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## Spring Feather (10 September 2013)

blackcob said:



			Perhaps that should read 'work' rather than walk!
		
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Ah yes much better!  Now mine do plenty of that :smile3:


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## Mince Pie (10 September 2013)

PolarSkye said:



			Interesting article . . . I would also add border collies to that list . . . in the wrong hands they can become neurotic, fear aggressive or just plain nuisances . . . they need massive amounts of socialization and they need bags of intellectual stimulation.  BCs are anything but couch potatoes . . . however, given enough to do and a firm but kind/patient hand they are wonderful, wonderful companions.  

I know all this because I have two (BC crosses with a high percentage of BC) . . . one taught me a massive amount - the hard way . . . and the other is an absolute joy (because the first one "trained" me in the fine art of BC ownership).  I love them both to pieces - but I would never recommend that dog novices own one as a first dog.

P
		
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Totally agree with this! My dog is a Welsh Sheepdog, so higher energy than a BC  There were many times in the first 18 months with Dog where I thought I couldn't cope


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## SadKen (10 September 2013)

Work, walk.... Either way, exercise!


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