# Gypsy Cob Society Passport Woes



## Splish & Masons mum (7 October 2010)

My Gypsy Cob Society Passport was never up to much (I wrote about it on here before!) It looks like it was made by a 5 year old (no offence to 5 year olds!) it has wonky, photocopied pages, still has Owners Name on front cover as Old owner, was a temporary passport, and when I returned it to them when he turned 5 to get a permanent one, I received the old one back with "temporary" crossed out and "permanent" written over the top, generally a very shoddy affair!
I kind of forgot about it really, but then I had a contact from someone else on here about the GCS failing to put hoses onto NED, and discovering my boy is not on there despite him having had his passport since 17/10/06 so it's spurred me on to do something about it.
However, when you look up the GCS contact details on the DEFRA website, the number given rings, diverts, then turns into a fax machine! 
On closer inspection it now says that the GCS are no longer recognised and they are finalising arrangements for administration of Gypsy Cob Society passports.
How long has this been going on? are they no longer recognised because they were rubbish?  is my passport still legal? was it ever legal as it states the old owner as the current owner? What do I do if I need to change the details on it? oooohhh, can I apply for a nice professional looking CHAPS passport instead?!


----------



## Cuffey (7 October 2010)

I had a message about this about a month ago but without instructions as to what to do.

On Nedonline it says contact DEFRA
Try horse.passports@defra.gsi.gov.uk

If that does not work PM me and I will give you a name but the person may not appreciate me posting it on an open forum!


----------



## hairycob (8 October 2010)

Oh b****r. Sent my new horse passport off to them 2 weeks ago - thing is I spoke to someone on the phone about how much the change would cost!
Have used Cuffey's link to email DEFRA


----------



## hairycob (8 October 2010)

Mind you it's not only them that haven't put passports on NED - of 3 horses I had one was on correctly, one was on incorrectly & the other not at all.


----------



## Splish & Masons mum (8 October 2010)

hairycob said:



			Oh b****r. Sent my new horse passport off to them 2 weeks ago - thing is I spoke to someone on the phone about how much the change would cost!
Have used Cuffey's link to email DEFRA
		
Click to expand...

Wow! you managed to speak to somebody on the phone?! I used the number on their website, (which is equally useless) and took about 2 weeks of calling practically constantly before someone answered the phone!

I tried calling DEFRA yesterday, but there was nobody in the horse passport section and so I left a message with my name and number, and am waiting for them to call back (I'm not holding my breath and am aware I may have to call again)
please keep me posted Hairycob on whether you get any info from DEFRA, will write back on here if/when I get a response. ps does your passport look as amateur as mine?


----------



## hairycob (8 October 2010)

There were 2 phone nos on my passport - 1 in the West Midlands & one in Cumbria - I goy hold of the Midlands one & he told me £20 to amend address & add freezemark, send it to Cumbria. That was 3 weeks ago.
Yep totally amateur looking passport. No response from DEFRA today - I'm assuming it will be a couple of days at least & probably a chase.


----------



## Ommadawn (8 October 2010)

DEFRA will probably tell you to contact trading standards - I'd go straight to them for some advice.


----------



## Cuffey (8 October 2010)

Just looked on Companies House Webcheck

Gypsy Cob Soc UK Ltd with Hockley Heath Solihull address was dissolved 4/5/10

However
Name & Registered Office:
GYPSY COB SOCIETY (2010) LIMITED
CHYWOON STUD 
CHURCH BROUGH 
KIRKBY STEPHEN 
CUMBRIA 
CA17 4EJ 
Company No. 07285025 

Status: Active 
Date of Incorporation: 15/06/2010

 Chywoon Stud was the original address for Gypsy Cob passports so all may not be lost Hairycob.


----------



## hairycob (14 October 2010)

Except Jason's passport was issued on 3/6 (he came from Ireland) which is between those 2 dates!
Anybody had any response from DEFRA? No response to my email last Friday.


----------



## Shysmum (14 October 2010)

glad it's not just me that has the shoddiest passport possible for Shy. After choosing them over others, I nearly cried when I got it back. 

I'll be following this thread with great interest. I am thinking of getting a new changed decent passport with someone else tbh and pay for the change.   sm x


----------



## lachlanandmarcus (14 October 2010)

Im just about to buy a pony with a GCS passport so have had a lot of contact with DEFRA and co in the last few days.

Initially (despite website saying they were going to confirm who would admin the PPs), DEFRA told me this wasnt the case and I had to just approach another PIO to get them to take it over. This was on DEFRA helpline not the specific passport section. So if you can, try and get put through to the PP section as the DEFRA helpline are clearly not all clued up.

The PIO I approached seemed to think they could only admin PPs with their range of numbers, but of course I couldnt have a new number cos that would be 2 PPs and also would trigger possible requirement for microchipping cos of the rules from 2009.

The seller then spoke to GCS, who told her they could still register transfer of owner if we sent £25. After speaking to DEFRA, they are now investigating that, and say GCS are absolutely NOT allowed to do this or to have anything to do with the PPs!.....maybe they are confused 

DEFRA say (I have managed to speak to the passport helpline a couple of times so I must be lucky) that they WILL be confirming shortly (tho they wouldnt be drawn on what shortly meant), a or a number of new PIOs to administer the PPs. (one wonders how keen they will be given they know that a number are not exactly of a high/accurate standard)

I have asked them to confirm (tho nothing back yet...) that if I go ahead and buy the pony they will only impose the 30 day rule for notifying change of owner at the point at which they actually confirm who this can be done with.

TBH all this would have put me off buying the pony if it wasnt for the fact her PP is on NED from what I could see, and that the seller says it is actually a decent one in terms of description, photo etc. 

The GCS passports are still legal as they were issued by a (at the time) valid PIO, but how the updates not done or the details not accurate get to be resolved Im not sure. TBH if you have one of those I would just make sure you have something that shows you have requested the corrections to be made and the details uploaded to NED(either to GCS or now DEFRA) and keep a print of the email/letter. The only complete black hole at the mo is the fact there is noone to register change of ownership with, within the 30 day limit. Thats not a worry re proof of ownership, as the PP isnt proof of that anyway, but its a concern re being pursued for breaking DEFRAs rules when they havent provided any way you can meet the rules.


----------



## natalia (14 October 2010)

I've got a pony with one of these now, the old owners name has been scribbled out in black marker pen! They are an absoloute joke, as is the whole passport situation, personally I think we need ONE passport issuing authority and be done with it. It's perfectly possible to get horses multiple passports even if they are microchipped, as the details are never checked by anyone. So a stolen horse can remain stolen very easily, and get a  whole new set of paperwork. We also need ONE microchipping authority as again no one knows who they are reg. with. I am tempted to get someone like watchdog involved and see just how many passports we could get for one horse without anyone asking, as I think it would be quite a few!


----------



## Cuffey (14 October 2010)

Please would those of you having problems flag it up with your local Trading Standards

As mentioned above to get a second passport is illegal and not update with new owner details within 30 days is illegal.

I will flag up with TS AHOs I know


----------



## Sparkles (14 October 2010)

Officially the UK Gypsy Cob Society has been closed down by the government, as we found out.

So far all we know is that the government has stopped their trading as of 2nd sept 2010.

This is a real turn of events, as the governing body has NEVER closed a passport agency down before here in the UK.
I have no answers or reasons as to why this happened, but it's surely not good that it has happened,as it has never been done!

It has caused an up roar both from talk and posts on here, as the breed no longer can have passports issued under that society as from that date.

So if any are issued they will not be valid now.

Many of us have GCS passports, me included as Hairy is with them, according to the governing body, all gypsy cobs will now have to gain passports under a general passport agency, and to date not one will verify parentage or give any breeding on passports, it just has the horses name and that is it, which is absolutely usless to a lot of breeders and producers.

The GCS has only ever been a passport issuing office and not a general show/breed society, but it sure will cause problems for many.

Yet another sodding problem faced with the breed. 

Rant over. Vet here now also. Aaaaargh.


----------



## lachlanandmarcus (14 October 2010)

One of the Fjord socs (in Scotland) was stopped from issuing PPs I believe in May 2008, and one of two other small ones, but this is the biggest by far to date. Just wish they would line up someone to take over first, it was OK with the Fjords as there werent many PPs and the society took over


----------



## Lioness (14 October 2010)

The Gypsy Cob needs its own worldwide breed passports with Studbook, dna database, verified parentage etc etc. the only people with any of this in place already is the Traditional Gypsy Cob Association. 
We don't need the cobs stuck in the with the 'general' passport issuing agencies.
Defra need to either, re-instate GCS, with provisions for added administration, or get TGCA to do it pretty quick !! already 6 weeks plus without passports, plus outstanding ones, and this years foals needing to be passported by the end of the year, what a mess !!
L


----------



## Sparkles (14 October 2010)

Ditto above. It needs to stick with people who know the breed, not just be an issue-ing place.

I hope it sorts out!


----------



## Shysmum (14 October 2010)

http://www.bspaonline.com/pdf/2010/grading/PASSPORT-OVERTAMPING-FORM.pdf

This is what I'm thinking of doing, but it don't come cheap. Hubs says as my GCS pasport is valid, I don't need to, but I would like a decent document tbh.


----------



## eriskaypony (14 October 2010)

This is the specific guidance relating to pasports issued by a PIO that has had its recognition withdrawn :


Owners with passports issued by a Passport Issuing Organisation that has had its recognition withdrawn for any reason will have to apply for a new passport from another Passport Issuing Organisation within 3 months of the date recognition was withdrawn. The old passport will remain valid following this application until such time as the new passport is received by the owner.


This has happened so rarely that no-one really really knows how to deal with it. When the Scottish Fjord Society had its recognition withdrawn the Fjord Horse National Studbook was lined up to issue new passports. I'm pretty sure they issued new passports but may be wrong, and if they did I don't know what they did with UELNs etc. 

The big problem in this case is that there is no alternative recognised breed society for Gypsy Cobs. That being the case I am curious to see how this is handled by DEFRA as there would appear to be a danger that the breed records will be lost and it will no longer be possible to register a horse as a Gypsy Cob.

As an aside, it sounds from some of the comments on here that the passports may not have met legal requirements in the first place.


----------



## Lioness (14 October 2010)

www.tgca.co.uk

this is an offical Association that has been in place 3 years, they have everything set up apart from passport issuing, which I hope they will be allowed to do now there is no one else doing it atm.

Anyone with strong views and gypsy cob lovers,  could help a lot by e-mailing defra on the e-mail addy at the beginning of the thread and asking if TGCA can take over, so we don't lose the breed status, records will be lost and no more registered gypsy cobs !! Apart from the hundreds of weanlings waiting to be pasported by the end of the year that cannot be sold moved or anything until they get the proper passport !!

L


----------



## lachlanandmarcus (14 October 2010)

eriskaypony said:



			This is the specific guidance relating to pasports issued by a PIO that has had its recognition withdrawn :

Owners with passports issued by a Passport Issuing Organisation that has had its recognition withdrawn for any reason will have to apply for a new passport from another Passport Issuing Organisation within 3 months of the date recognition was withdrawn. The old passport will remain valid following this application until such time as the new passport is received by the owner.
		
Click to expand...

Above quote but what is the source of the quote.

Whats stated above is what DEFRA initially told me.... and then retracted it and said they are definitely going to nominate a specific new PIO and that I could NOT go and get a new PP from another PIO!! 

Also if you do get a new one then you might fall into the 'compulsory microchipping' bucket as the PIO I spoke to said any new PP they issue would have to have microchip number before they could issue it. 

Since DEFRA are currently stating on their website that they WILL be making arrangements for these PPs to be taken over, and the passport officer confirmed that to me and that we should wait for this to happen, I'm going to wait for them to do that. After all,  they cannot state that on the website and then pursue people for adhering to it.


----------



## Lioness (14 October 2010)

I understand from someone who spoke to them today, GCS have been allowed to nominate another PIO !!! it won't be a gypsy cob specific one as there isn't one at the moment.
L


----------



## hairycob (14 October 2010)

I finally managed to get to speak to someone at DEFRA this afternoon.

Basically the advice is if you have a passport that needs amending wait for the announcement - no idea when that will be. The DERA man said there would be plenty of publicity when the arrangements are finalised though tbh a bit when the authority was withdrawn would have been appropriate.

If you are like me & have sent a passport to be amended since the end of August contact Cumbria Trading Standards.


----------



## Cuffey (15 October 2010)

There are 2 different problems here

1. Which organisation is going to take over the Gypsy Cob Passports--DEFRA decision

2. People who have tried and failed to update their passport or have found that their details are either not on NED or are incorrect or feel their passport is of poor quality ie looks homemade rather than an official document

Trading Standards are responsible for enforcing horse passport legislation so anything other than 1. falls under their remit.

If anyone else would like the contact name in Cumbria TS who is prepared to take this further please PM me


----------



## Maesfen (15 October 2010)

Nothing to add except to say I'm sorry you're having all this trouble.  Such a shame if you look forward to receiving a proper passport only to find it's a load of tatty rubbish and literally not worth the paper it's scribbled on.  Another totally *&*&*& mess from DEFRA who should have needed to see the quality and detail on the passports and what procedures were carried out on change of ownership and so on before they ever gave a PIO a licence; they should also carry out random checks to see that standards were kept up, it's not rocket science after all.
Having seen quite a few non breed passports, the only ones I would consider using for unknown (where breeding isn't known or un needed) animals are either the BHS or the Weatherbys ID ones, the others are very poor quality with pretty lax office work in place too.

Hope you get a happy ending to your troubles.


----------



## nat_1 (15 October 2010)

hi,i bought a foal 2 months ago who is passported with the gypsy cob society. for 2 months i have been trying to phone them to change name and ownership,but as you'd guess-no answer!
 this is the first horse ive bought since passports came into force.so my worry is is it even valid??

Since ive had her shes had her two tetenus which have been wrote down in passport by vet.im worried that i wont get it bk if i send it anywhere.

ive rang DEFRA also but there was no one in the passport office at time n got answer phone.
im just worried that if she strayed her microchip is gonna link her to her old owner a few miles from me.


----------



## Maesfen (15 October 2010)

For anyone sending off a passport to anyone, it really does pay for peace of mind to have it photocopied before it leaves your hands (by that, I mean each page which refers to your horse, so name page, sketch, ownership page, vaccinations page and so on, no need to do the standard bumph that is printed by the passport makers).  Also helps if you date and initial each page before you copy it too, that way they can't dispute things aren't as you said.


----------



## hairycob (15 October 2010)

I managed to contact them today & they are finally admitting on the phone that they are not allowed to issue or amend passports and that they are holding on to any passports & cheques sent in until they can pass them on to who ever takes over. I have asked for mine to be returned to me & I asked them to post it tomorrow (this was gone 5) as I have the Vet coming out for 2nd jab this week. I have checked with my bank & my cheque has not cleared so I have put a stop on it.
The whole business is a mess. DEFRA should have publicised the withdrawal of authority when it happened & there should be a back up process so that ther isn't such a hiatus.
They have over 7000 passports registered on NED & no one has any idea how many that have not been recorded (mine included).
If anyone has a passport not recorded on NED or any other issues can you contact Cumbria Trading Standards as they are trying to get a picture but so far have few formal complaints.
THE PIO they said would be taking over was interesting to say the least.


----------



## Herts05 (15 October 2010)

It seems that there are a number of passport issuing organisations that are not abiding by DEFRA regulations and are not updating NEDS with passport details. I have the same issue with BAPSH and funnily enough after I put something on this forum a few months ago, got a response on the forum from them!! (interesting that they can find time to read through this but not answer emails sent direct to them). Anyway after them telling me that they were working with BAPSH directly (seems they had visited the woman who does the passports) nothing has happened and my horse still doesn't appear on NED (at least another 4 months of waiting now). I emailed DEFRA who transferred me through to their passport section and the last I heard was that there were a number of agencies who were "under investigation". the thing is that whilst this is going on people are still sending their passports to be updated, their money is being taken but the organisations are still not complying with DEFRA's rules.  All very frustrating!!


----------



## Sparkles (15 October 2010)

hairycob said:



			THE PIO they said would be taking over was interesting to say the least.
		
Click to expand...


Who, out of curiousity?


----------



## Munchkin (16 October 2010)

I've had this problem with them too. After 5 months of trying to sort it out I gave up and bought a new passport for the pony.

Nobody wanted to know, or seemed to know what they were supposed to do about it (he's a 4yo Welsh x Standie, passport says he's 6, NED says he's a 2yo grey female donkey!)

My advice is don't waste your time.


----------



## hairycob (16 October 2010)

Lippizaner Society - I can see my rather common (but fab temprement!) pony getting ideas above his station if that goes ahead! Do hairy ponies do airs above the ground?


----------



## Sparkles (16 October 2010)

The.Lippizanner.Society.

I think 3 letters sum that up.

*WTF???!!!*


----------



## hairycob (16 October 2010)

Yes, not the society one immediately thinks of & of course it could be completely wrong.


----------



## mully682 (17 October 2010)

Hi,
I have just joined after reading threads about GCS passports and i am mortified. I bought my mare on the 7th September 2010 and i sent her passport off 3 weeks ago with the £20 fee, and i have just read that the GCS no longer exists as from the 2nd September 2010. Please could you give me some advice as to what i should do now?
I will be contacting Defra and Cumbria trading standards on monday morning.
I have not got the passport back either!

Any advice will be greatly appreciated

Thank you


----------



## hairycob (17 October 2010)

You sent your passport off about the same time as me.
The things to do are:

1) Stop the cheque.
2)Check if it recorded on NED online.
3) Report to trading standards & DEFRA (although DEFRA are as much use as a choc teapot!). I shall pm you an email address for a specific person at Cumbria TS that Cuffey sent to me.
4) Keep phoning GCS. It took me all week to get through but I did eventually. They told me they are holding on to any passports to pass them on. Despite confirming to OH on Monday that they had received my passport & would deal with it on Tuesday, on Friday I was told they haven't even opened the envelopes if they have passports (X ray vision I presume). Ask them to send your passport back so that you can deal with it when DEFRA finally make arrangements. I've got the Vet coming for 2nd jab on Wednesday & told them I want it back by then. TBH I shall be surprised if I don't have to keep chasing. Don't accept any offers to back date the amendments.
5) Keep a record of all your contacts with GCS


----------



## teddyt (17 October 2010)

What a performance. Hope you get it sorted. typical of the whole passport farce


----------



## rushyj (17 October 2010)

Hi people. As a TGCA committee member (showing) I have been asked by the rest of the committee to put an official TGCA comment on all the concerns regarding the GCS and Gypsy Cob passports.

Firstly the TGCA is well aware of all the concerns and problems you are all facing with either current passports or applying for new ones. The TGCA is working flat out to try and provide a solution to all of this. We are in contact with DEFRA. As founders of one of the most extensive Studbooks for the breed in this country and abroad we truely believe that this breeds PIO needs to be studbook based with DNA profiles for registered animals. The breeding and history of these horses must be documented and recorded and to have a non Gypsy Cob Society hold the passporting will be hugely detrimental to this breed.

As you may be aware there are masses of requirements that we need to satisfy DEFRA to gain approval and it cannot be an overnight thing. We are 99% there but we need all the support we can get from breeders and enthusiasts alike. 

We would advise the following:

If you have a GCS passport firstly check with the National Equine Database that your passport is registered with them. This is a legal requirement and if it is not registered your best advice is to contact Cumbria Trading Standards (as they regulate this matter not DEFRA) Then email Defra with the details of the complaint you have made.

If you are waiting for a passport or change of ownership then email GCS and copy to Cumbria Trading Standards and DEFRA.

There should have been no payments for anything passport related processed by GCS since 2nd September 2010. If they have then they are not valid by law. Again contact Cumbria Trading Standards and DEFRA.

Owners of 2010 weanlings etc. you are required by law to hold a passport for your horses you should email DEFRA and enquire their advice on how to proceed especialy those of you who require verified parentage on your horses as with a general PIO this will not be possible and your horses breeding and heritage will be lost. Even a TGCA overstamp is just that an overstamp we cannot put your horses breeding into your passport through a general PIO.

We are always available to answer (as best we can) your concerns and quieries so please email us at the TGCA www.tgca.co.uk you can also discuss this matter on the TGCA website (top right hand side)


----------



## Cuffey (17 October 2010)

rushyj said:



			Hi people. As a TGCA committee member (showing) I have been asked by the rest of the committee to put an official TGCA comment on all the concerns regarding the GCS and Gypsy Cob passports.

Firstly the TGCA is well aware of all the concerns and problems you are all facing with either current passports or applying for new ones. The TGCA is working flat out to try and provide a solution to all of this. We are in contact with DEFRA. As founders of one of the most extensive Studbooks for the breed in this country and abroad we truely believe that this breeds PIO needs to be studbook based with DNA profiles for registered animals. The breeding and history of these horses must be documented and recorded and to have a non Gypsy Cob Society hold the passporting will be hugely detrimental to this breed.

We are always available to answer (as best we can) your concerns and quieries so please email us at the TGCA www.tgca.co.uk you can also discuss this matter on the TGCA website (top right hand side)  

Click to expand...

Thank you
Your organisation is the obvious choice and would suit all owners of coloured cobs which an ID only passport would not. 
My concern would be you taking on what appears to have been left as a ''shambles''
I hope you will be able to produce a passport of the quality people expect for their £20 or thereabouts and one which will be impossible to alter by traders without it being obvious.


----------



## freespirit (17 October 2010)

Only the organisation which holds the offiical studbook for the breed should be the passport issuing authority recognised and authorised by DEFRA. I am a long time breeder of gypsy cobs and want the ancestry origines on my passports where these are known. This is why I have joined the TGCA as they have a programme now of DNA profiling, essential in todays world and for the future of this unique breed.


----------



## rushyj (17 October 2010)

We believe we can.  The whole ethos of the TGCA is to protect the breed and give it equal standing with the rest of the UK breeds.  The gypsy cob has been downtrodden for too long in the UK and the only way we can gain all of this is through professionalism in all areas.  It is a vast amount of work but we are getting there and we have had some fantastic support from everyone.


----------



## hairycob (17 October 2010)

Good luck Rushyj it looks like big job you want to take on. When I looked there were over 7,000 GCS passports on NED. God knows how many they have actually issued as there are so many stories of them not being on NED.


----------



## rushyj (17 October 2010)

lol isn't it just but we have got to get it right from the outset.  To give you an idea our vet (very well respected in good eventing, hunting country) was up the other day and chatting away to him and the closure of the GCS came up in conversation.  He didn't even know it had been stopped.  He then followed that up by saying "yeah but it was only ever just a money spinner anyway"  you tell me any other breed that would get that response?!?  Would the closure of a sport horse or warmblood PIO get that response..... mad me really angry actually,.


----------



## sunshine19 (17 October 2010)

Its an absolute disgrace!

I am in a terrible dilemma. I bought a fantastic little piebald colt and paid a fair bit for him. His sire is a stunning cob and my colt is true to type. My long-term plan was to keep him entire and possibly breed. 
He arrived with a Pet-ID passport and no mention of his breeder, sire or dam. I am gutted to say the least! I dont want to lose this valuable information. I contacted Pet-Id but they informed me they dont include these details, as they are not a breed society. Aaarrrgghhh!!
Is there anything else I can do Rushyj??


----------



## Sparkles (17 October 2010)

For the DNA side of things Sunshine, best bet is to contact Andrea Betteridge [contact details up on TGCA website], as she is in charge of the studbook and DNA profiling and can parentage/DNA test horses.


----------



## sunshine19 (17 October 2010)

Thanks for the advice Binky, I'll send her an email tomorrow


----------



## Sparkles (17 October 2010)

No problem, She's lovely!


----------



## rushyj (18 October 2010)

Binky is right re contacting Andrea.  This is exactly the sort of situation that owners are finding themselves in.  The TGCA can verify parentage and give certification to that effect obviously we cannot alter or adjust passports.


----------



## Baggybreeches (18 October 2010)

Lioness said:



			The Gypsy Cob needs its own worldwide breed passports with Studbook, dna database, verified parentage etc etc. the only people with any of this in place already is the Traditional Gypsy Cob Association. 
We don't need the cobs stuck in the with the 'general' passport issuing agencies.
Defra need to either, re-instate GCS, with provisions for added administration, or get TGCA to do it pretty quick !! already 6 weeks plus without passports, plus outstanding ones, and this years foals needing to be passported by the end of the year, what a mess !!
L
		
Click to expand...

*Bangs head on wall* Cobs whether Gypsy (black and white) or otherwise are not a breed, they are a type!
Why would anybody want to have a passport issued by the Gypsy Cob Society is beyond me anyway, there are dozens of reputable PIO's why choose these?


----------



## rushyj (18 October 2010)

Baggybreeches said:



			*Bangs head on wall* Cobs whether Gypsy (black and white) or otherwise are not a breed, they are a type!
Why would anybody want to have a passport issued by the Gypsy Cob Society is beyond me anyway, there are dozens of reputable PIO's why choose these?
		
Click to expand...

Though I agree with the head banging part may I please enlighten you.  The Gypsy Cob has been bred for tens of decades through selected breeding choosing to build the ultimate all round work horse.  Descended from fells, dales and heavy horse breeds to gain the unique qualities of the breed we seen today.  Colour was introduced to the breed to stop the horses being drafted into the war.  Many of the top breeders can trace their herds bloodlines back 5 or 6 generations gypsy cob to gypsy cob.

Not too dissimilar to the thoroughbred who I believe were decended from 4 arabs?!?  It is just a question of the time involved.


----------



## Baggybreeches (18 October 2010)

I understand your point entirely, however how can 'anybody' apply for a passport with such a society given that the vast majority of people who a) wish to have passports and b) are most likely to never breed from or sell their horse, are unlikely to have even a dam and sire listed, let alone a 3 or 5 generation pedigree. It makes a bit of a mockery of the idea of the 'breed' theory, no?
FWIW I have nothing against anybody setting up or issuing passports called whatever they like, but with the amount of very ignorant (and I make no apology for the use of that word) people who now have access to horse ownership and care, I find it quite disturbing that even the basics of type v's breed escapes them.
Personally not really a fan of coloured horses per se, but to each their own, just don't call a spade a shovel an' all that!


----------



## rushyj (18 October 2010)

The TGCA has been established for 3 years now collecting DNA from herds up and down the UK and abroad we have the DNA profiles of in excess of 500 horses.  (DEFRA requires 17 stallions and 50 mares)  All our horses before being accepted onto our main studbook must be DNA tested to prove parentage.  We work on a 17 point marker sytem with our profiling done through Animal Genetics also with feeds from the University of Kentuky.  We also offer a colour testing so people can prove unique colour markers.  In fact we recently did some work with the scientist at the Animal Health Trust due to the decendancy of our BREED from Fells and Dales into Foal Immunodeficiency Syndrome that effects the Fells and Dales to see if it had come into the Gypsy Cob breed.  As our studbook is still open we can allow for horses to be entered only after grading this is done by a panel of experts on the breed after a full vetting of the animal.

To be blunt many of these horses are exported to the USA and Australia to name but a few countries.  I am pretty sure that if people can arrange to have their horses flown out of this country and pass all the DEFRA exporting laws and rules they can manage to satisfy the basic requirements of filling out a passport.


----------



## Baggybreeches (18 October 2010)

Yes but that is the exception rather than the rule. I commend highly what you are doing, but my point is that the umpteen thousand coloured cobs that have been sales fodder in this country for the past 50 years or so, are not a breed, you are making the right steps towards identifying a breed with your testing and research, but 500 horses in the grand scheme of things is a drop in the ocean.
Well done on your commitment in what must surely be a mammoth task.


----------



## rushyj (18 October 2010)

Thank you and yes it is, but it is the same for all breeds.  How many ex racers get binned just because they can no longer cut it on the track?  I in fact bought a national hunt horse from ascot sales who still had his racing plates worn and twisted into his feet, a sub clinical infection in his throat where he had been turned out in a field and left for weeks before the sales after having had a tie back.

The prejudice this breed suffers is exactly why we are doing this.  We know it is a mammoth task but it has to start somewhere.


----------



## Baggybreeches (18 October 2010)

I have two such 'rejects' who serve me perfectly well as hunters/pointers! Please continue to educate folks in the difference between a breed and a type though, pedantic, Moi?
PS and please be very stringent with your grading, mediocre breeding beasts is another of my little bugbears!


----------



## hunnybunny (18 October 2010)

Having experienced this with my cob and my ex racer all I will say is RushyJ is correct in what they say and yes, this is an ongoing issue which will be rectified.
I'm with you all the way on this one RJ..................................


----------



## Sparkles (18 October 2010)

It's no different to the same start of any breed, just with more discrimination, hate, biased unknowledgable opinions and predujice going against them.

That reply Baggy, take this in no offensive way, is the EXACT point of the society. Your first [and probably firm] opinion on the breed shows the distinct lack of knowledge on the breed from outside people looking in. These are NOT 'fodder cobs' or what most are used to seeing. These are £££££'s worth of stallions and breeding heritage. For showing and breeding side of things, the TGCA has allowed a showcase for UK breeders now to get their stock in the public eye....some of which are stallions/mares/youngstock the public would never see the likes of before.





















http://dixiedownmeadows.webs.com/Tyson 21.jpg

http://dixiedownmeadows.webs.com/wm website.jpg

http://dixiedownmeadows.webs.com/black jack 15.jpg













The value of these horses can put other breeds to shame. If anyone classes them as 'fodder cobs' still, then quite frankly, wash your mouth out! 

Just like every single recognised breed, there are crap examples for all. You get the crap bred welshies, and the stunning top class welshies. You get TB's/warmbloods/etc which have all the conformation of a donkey...still classed as their breed, but just poor examples of the breed! Can still get a passport for them as the breed, but won't necessarily pass a grading! No disimiliar to the TGCA. 

With so much unpublished information on the breed, it is just the start up of a studbook a few decades on from when all the other breeds started. Call it 'late starters' if you must! Surely if there's all breeding and the heritage proved and documented for years, why shouldn't there be a stand made to get the breed, just that,_a breed_. It's absolutely NO different to how any ther breed society is formed and based on. Yes it's hard work and determination, but everything worthwhile is.


Sorry, this is NOT a personal attack, but that low grade opinion on the breed is exactly what we're fighting against.

ETA - edited photos to lins as were clogging up the page. Andthanks all if your photos are on there!


----------



## rushyj (18 October 2010)

I agree that a show hunter or a show cob is a type as it has no specific breed guideline.  Ie a show cob could be a connie/id cross.  Hence shown as a type.  

The gypsy cob that we allow into our stud book has been bred gypsy cob to gypsy cob for generations and can prove it that makes it a breed.  If it can't prove it then it will have to be shown in front of a panel of experts to prove it has the true to type qualities to allow it's bloodline into the breed.  It is like saying a connie is not a breed if it did not have a studbook.

Let me ask you these cobs your referring to do any of them have all of the following.

Height:

The height can be any height from 12hh  16hh or over.

Head:

Neat, small, noble and in proportion to the body .  Broad between the eyes, which should be bright, and alert displaying a large, kind eye. Blue eyes are acceptable, Small neat ears slightly incurving.   Long foretop of straight hair down the face.

Neck:

Strong, well arched and of ample length. The neck to be well set onto a good sloping shoulder,  Stallions should display a bold outlook with a well-arched crest. Long, flowing mane.

Shoulders:

Well-laid, long, sloping shoulders with well-developed muscles. Withers not too fine.

Body:

Short-coupled and deep through the chest, with well-sprung ribs.  Strong loins.

Hindquarters:

Deep, lengthy and powerful. Second thighs well-developed and very muscular. Tail well set on, not high, with plenty of long, straight hair reaching the ground.strong muscled hindquaters displaying an Apple shape


Hocks:

Broad, Flat and clean. Well let down with plenty of dense flat bone below. Ample hair being displayed

Forearms: Set square. Short and very muscular, with broad, well-developed knees. Displaying an abundance of hair  around all the leg.

Feet, Legs and Joints

The very best of feet and legs, with flexible joints, showing quality with no coarseness. The cannons should be short and display a minimum of 8"(20.3cms) of flat flinty bone and well defined tendons. Pasterns should be nicely sloping and of good length. Ample silky feather surrounding all of legs and feet and joints.   Large, round feet open at the heels, with well developed frogs.

Colours:

All colours acceptable

Markings: All markings acceptable

Action:

Clean, high, straight and true. Going forward on all fours with tremendous energy. The knee and hock are lifted, the hind legs flexed well under the body for powerful drive.

Character:

True pony character. Alert, loyal, courageous, intelligent and placid and genuine sociable outlook


These are the requirements to pass TGCA grading.


----------



## mrsfell (18 October 2010)

Binky, I LOVE those photos!!


----------



## Maesfen (18 October 2010)

I have to agree with BaggyBreeches.  Coloured cobs are a type not a breed as by your own admission they are a hotchpotch of breeds, not just a simple cross but several crosses, no wonder they are so many different shapes.
The majority of what you see at sales and advertised as gypsy cobs are usually what would be rejected as downright ugly if they were a solid colour and many people that buy them are buying them for their splodges and hairiness (in other words their bling in what is becoming a trashy society and even gives Essex a bad name) alone which unscrupulous traders are trading on and rubbing their hands in glee especially with the novice buyers that are found today.  The traders are on a money spinner and meanwhile you have every coloured hairy mare being bred from, the only criteria being the hairier and more coloured the better.

I applaud those with their commitment for the new society and wish them well but I fear it will be very unrepresentative because of the sheer amount of people that haven't a clue, even more care less what the parentage of their horse is, it's just another blingy hairy yak to get onto the market.

I know I'll get a lot of stick for what I've said, I'll take it all on board but I won't be coming back to this as those pictures were huge and mean every post I read on this I have to scroll all the way across and back to read, it's too painful.


----------



## Baggybreeches (18 October 2010)

As much as I would love to slink off with a flea in my ear, I was running around at Appleby Fair buck naked, swimming in the river before most of you had probably been born, so I am afraid my opinion is born out of observation not ignorance. My father and grandfather both worked 'proper cobs' and FWIW my sister has spent 3 years trying to find a cob worthy of pulling their bowtop (the last one they had incidentally was Bay!).
Please do not assume that I have no knowledge of cobs, I have plenty, I merely choose a different style of transport


----------



## rushyj (18 October 2010)

ok firstly refresh the page Binky has reduced them then you can wait around for the replies.  The point of this post was regarding a passport issuing authority.  If all of this was based on knowledge and not complete hearsay and rubbish it could be justified.  For example you both mention colour repeatedly..  Why?  The gypsy cob can be of any colour be that bay black, roan etc. 

What gives you the right to say what is and what isn't a breed.  The modern warmblood breeds are made up of 3 or more differing breeds with your thinking all the horses would still be Merychippus!!!!


----------



## Baggybreeches (18 October 2010)

But it is no more a 'breed' than the ISH (Irish sport horse) which TBF covers just about every kind of beast you ever saw bred! A breed is a breed and a type is a type! The colour clarification was for the benefit of the posters who also class 'gypsy cobs' as needing to be broken coloured.
Must go and muck out my 100th generation Arabs now, so I will catch up later ;-)


----------



## Theresa_F (18 October 2010)

The last photo is my Stinky, aka Quite by Chance.  His dad is Chance du Valleon, the stallion above the black Tonka.  I have Stinky's parentage going back four generations.  

A good gypsy cob is easy to spot, and are by no means "fodder".  My lad is now six and proving to be a superb all rounder, fantastic temperament, safe, fun and when he has a rider on that wants it forwarding going.

If you take the time to find out, you will see that the gypsy cob has been bred for over a hundred years, many of them carefully line bred to achieve the true gypsy cob.  The gypsy breeders take a huge pride in their stock, can tell you breeding going back generations and now there is the DNA proof to back it up.  The scrub animals you see with some so called gypsy breeders bear little relation to the gypsy cob apart from being coloured.

Prejudice against the breed is coming round as more and more people are realising what fantastic horses and ponies they are, and with their great nature and ability to be the true master jack of all trades are becoming increasingly sort after.

The top stallions sell at 5 or 6 figure sums and the gypsy cob is exported round the world and are in high demand.


----------



## Baggybreeches (18 October 2010)

Theresa, again I can't disagree, but this is the minority.


----------



## rushyj (18 October 2010)

Baggybreeches said:



			As much as I would love to slink off with a flea in my ear, I was running around at Appleby Fair buck naked, swimming in the river before most of you had probably been born, so I am afraid my opinion is born out of observation not ignorance. My father and grandfather both worked 'proper cobs' and FWIW my sister has spent 3 years trying to find a cob worthy of pulling their bowtop (the last one they had incidentally was Bay!).
Please do not assume that I have no knowledge of cobs, I have plenty, I merely choose a different style of transport 

Click to expand...

Oh please as for assumptions my modes of transport over the last three years has included the 2003 heavyweight hunter of the year, RIHS hunter champion (ex Rob Olivers Horse), a dublin and balmoral lightweight hunter champion so please do not patronise me.

My opinion is also born out of experience and I would say I have never met a group of more dedicated breeders and enthusiasts who live for their horses.


----------



## The_snoopster (18 October 2010)

I just thought I would put my opinion on here, people have been shouting for a number of years what a total crap organization the gypsy cob society passport office was. I am surprised anybody ever bothered to have one of their toytown passports, I know of several people who have them and they are usually wrong in descriptions of the registered horses.
And as for the cobs that cannot trace their ancestry I have such an animal, she is not bothered at all that she cannot prove that her greatgrandad pulled a bowtop at appleby.


----------



## Sparkles (18 October 2010)

Baggybreeches said:



			As much as I would love to slink off with a flea in my ear, I was running around at Appleby Fair buck naked, swimming in the river before most of you had probably been born, so I am afraid my opinion is born out of observation not ignorance. My father and grandfather both worked 'proper cobs' and FWIW my sister has spent 3 years trying to find a cob worthy of pulling their bowtop (the last one they had incidentally was Bay!).
Please do not assume that I have no knowledge of cobs, I have plenty, I merely choose a different style of transport 

Click to expand...

Apologies then. But I still fully stick to what I put, re, perception on the breed. I'm not trying to convert anyone, far from it. However the constant belittling opinions on the breed absolutely do me in. I fully understand each to their own and everyone is entitled to their own preference for type and workload in whichever equestrian sphere, BUT, what gives anyone the right to question them being a breed or not and seeing them as 'commoners' and insuperior to other horses? Absolutely nothing. I dislike some breeds, but I would not dream of wading into, per say an arab or welsh specific post and air my views on all that is foul with the breed, just because of _my_ personal opinion and dislike on them. [For the record, I do own a welsh and also have a TB and a gypsy cob myself. A lovely strange assortment to be seen together.]
A horse is a horse. 

As for the pics M, I'm sorry if the size offends you. Maybe they might stand out a bit more to make a point that way. They're not there to be liked or disliked. They're there for examples of breed, both current and previous. They are just some of the elite stallions of the breed with the parentage, true to type conformation and everything else which that entails. Fact. Couldn't give a rats arse if they're not to everyone's cups of tea, that's not my point as per what was said above.


----------



## rushyj (18 October 2010)

lol at Snoopy......   I would just like to add that it is not the case of whether you like trads or not they deserve the protection and showcasing of their own breed society the the TGCA provide them.  Everyone has their own "type" of horse but I would not deny one it's place in the sun.....  As you have pointed out there are issues relating some of the horses out there surely with it's own breed society new owners would turn to the society for education on the breed and where to source the animals so could only be a good thing for the cobs.


----------



## The_snoopster (18 October 2010)

RJ- All breeds start somewhere (good luck), but as we all know the Arabian stud books were first issued to Adam and Eve . As I have said I have know idea where my coloured cob came from but she does neigh with an irish twang.


----------



## georgieandhugo (18 October 2010)

ok so i have just registered on here so have never responded to anything before but feel i must say something now!

I have several friends that compete at very high standards and also breed their own horses, now i was shocked to learn one of them has a ISH mare she had a foal from this year which is out of a Hanovarian from Germany can be registered as a full breed Hanov which i find actually quite disgusting becasue these WB can be crossed with absolutely anything with upto a limit of 70% the other breed and still be registered full???? 

How does that work so in 50 years time with this continous breeding and registering the hanovarian of today will be nothing like that of its future progeny?? and i am also aware this is not the only breed registration that has this policy!

I own a solid coloured Trad and he has been passed from home to home he is 5 and has had 10 homes he was given to me as the last owner was scared of him as she was one of these owners with little or no knowledge and these breeds are very intelligent and he had learnt exactly how to intimidate her

However with in the first day we established our partnership and he is a perfect boy he looks after my 2 yo daughter he follows her round the field and protects her from the bigger horses she can pull his tail and his feather and his moustache which is forming perfectly now and he just loves it he is the leader of my heard of 5 he was as soon as he entered the field and all of the horses look up to him!

i'm sorry i digress badly but i guess my point is that how can people criticise them becoming a breed when there all many breed books out there that can not be true!!

now i know this is not the point but i am not a fan of trads in particular however i do own 3 coloureds purely by accident i have to say because i care not what a breed is or their colour i am after the most athletic, bravest, calmest, gentlest and most intelligent horses and am lucky enough that all of them are stunning looking also.! Since owning my trad. man i am a big fan of them if he is anything to go by as he is stunning just beautiful so much fun and so clever i will not part with him now no way!

now i hope to show him at some of the TGCA shows next year as being a kinda roany bay but not enough he is not classed as coloured meaning i can not show him in anything!!

i have also a couple of friends that own some well bred very expesive horses one is a AQh and another is a Knabstruper and they both have been very unhealthy from a very young age the AQH has just been diagnosed with DJD at 4!! the vet thinks that it is due too much breeding with in a small group as obviously AQH are not as common over here they don't really get the fresh DNA in much resulting in poor genes i think i have witnessed this in a couple of cases now and after having a conversation with my vet at the last boosters for the guys he said that apart from accidents he hardly ever treats coloureds or trads apart from pure breeds or rare breeds the crosses are always so much more healthier!! i found that very interesting and i have to say that as i think of it apart from silly little accidents up till now i have not had any major vets bills!! so i think there are many reasons why these horses should be classed as a breed they are fabulous and that is part of the reasons novices own them!!


----------



## Sparkles (18 October 2010)

hairycob said:



			Lippizaner Society - I can see my rather common (but fab temprement!) pony getting ideas above his station if that goes ahead! Do hairy ponies do airs above the ground?
		
Click to expand...

You joke. I just landed on my arse from one f said cobbies doing his rather best impression of a capriole over a ditch out hacking.....  They're converting already!!! lol.


----------



## tabithakat64 (18 October 2010)

I think the work the TGCA have done so far in promoting the Traditional Gypsy Cob as a breed is fantastic, it's about time this breed had the official recognition it deserves. 

As others have mentioned true TGC's are now DNA tested/graded and are potentially worth 6 figure amounts, I fail to see how this is different from any other breed.

I've been a huge fan of these horses for years and they are hugely different from the badly put together piebald cobs that you see everywhere.

Other than colour I fail to see any similarity between the Traditional Gypsy Cob and the coloured horse of cob type below.


----------



## rushyj (18 October 2010)

Very well put.


----------



## hairycob (19 October 2010)

Well mine is a "coloured horse of cob type", not the prettiest markings &, as he's a gelding, his breeding is pretty irrelevent but at 4, on only his 2nd hack out with me, he lead a napping 13 yo tbx out of the yard and that is what I bought him for - a solid, dependable type that a "more mature" lady can hack out on into her dotage but with enough about him to be fun & maybe the odd small hunter trial/local SJ or possibly TREC. 
Frankly I just want his passport sorted.
But having said that I do love proper gypsy cobs & I hope the TGCA are successful in promoting them whether they are a breed or a type


----------



## hairycob (19 October 2010)

Actually, I'm quite tempted to get this one DNA tested, although this photo doesn't do his hairyness justice


----------



## palominocobs (19 October 2010)

Firstly I will say I am not a Gypsy but I have owned gypsy bred cobs for over 20 years, I am very passionate about this type of horse/pony, proper gypsy horsemen and families have bred from specific lines for years and the cobs are superb, the main problem is that many people breed these not to the traditional standard (rounder body, apple bum, short body, small ears etc, if you have seen one you would know the difference) they also cross traditionals with other cobs, I am so fed up with ignorant people who call any cob with a bit of hair a gypsy cob...NO... also for all the numptys who comments on coloured cobs, not all gypsy cobs are coloured some of the best are solid colour, before anyone makes a comment please read up on the true gypsy cobs there are plenty of web sites travelers times etc its as if people dish gypsys by calling any part bred hairy coloured animal a gypsy!! ? go figure...All the time I am writing this I can hear some total and utter snob that spoke with me a few days past who quite clearly was very prejudiced to Gypsys and this is where the main problem lies so get your head out of your arses and educate yourselves before making comment. Not all gypsys are bad, not all black people are thugs, not all chinese people work in restaurants not all Lithuanian people are hard workers...get my point!!!! The job for the TGCA is to separate the cobs from the gypsy cobs and to recognize the true line bred traditional that will go as a founder breed, the problem lies now with the tiny bred ponys who have now had welsh sec A etc put into the lines to get the size, I think the person who started the TGA very brave as its a minefield out there, In my personal opinion and experience I think the gypsy cob term should have been dropped with many a horse and they should have been called traditional or feathered cob as there are many out there that do not conform to the ORIGINAL gypsy standard, many cobs are bred by gypsys or from gypsy cobs but are not true to type I know people say that in any breed there are good and bad but there is a difference between a cob and a Traditional gypsy cob.


----------



## palominocobs (19 October 2010)

Tabithakat64 Wow great two pictures you have just visually explained what my rambling A4 reply tried to say..well done for showing the difference between a Proper Gypsy cob and a feathered cob.


----------



## daft (19 October 2010)

if you type horse passports and look through the list you can find the society and the address of the man in the west midlands think his name is craig


----------



## The_snoopster (19 October 2010)

I would just like to say the so called coloured cobs that are not classed as Gypsy cobs are usually sold by the travelling community as full breds by their (grandads grannies original bowtop pulling famous stallions blood lines), so having a proper stud book in the future would be a great idea. Also most of what the travelling community are dealing in now are these tiny mini cobs, which seemed to come into fashion over recent years, so obviously they are being bred down smaller with what looks like to me section C,s. How many generations will the gypsy cob need to have to be recognised as a full bred, when the very people breeding them are changing the type in very recent years. Or as there always been a standard type and a mini type, has I have only recently over the last 10 years or so known of this fashion for the mini gypsy cob.


----------



## Cuffey (19 October 2010)

daft said:



			if you type horse passports and look through the list you can find the society and the address of the man in the west midlands think his name is craig
		
Click to expand...

if you read the thread you will find the Society is dissolved and DEFRA state they have ceased trading and to contact them about GCS passports


----------



## hairycob (19 October 2010)

Has anybody actually managed to get a passport returned yet? Despite being promised that they would post mine on Saturday there is no sign of it.
I spoke to Cumbria TS today & they are asking for people who are having issues to contact them directly. If you contact you local TS the complaints get spread about all over the place & it is harder for them to take action. Cuffey gave me the email address of the person who is dealing with this so feel free to pm me if you need it.


----------



## GypsyB (20 October 2010)

Please, please, please anyone currently undergoing problems with the GCS problem now, get yourselves membered up with the TGCA asap (I think they'll pretty busy soon!) the more support they have the more chance they can get PIO status - it's all about numbers, DEFRA can't ignore all of us - surely?!?
I am really passionate about this - please support our breed.


----------



## hairycob (22 October 2010)

I have been told that DEFRA will be issuing a press release today.


----------



## Sparkles (22 October 2010)

Hmm interesting....


----------



## Feathered (22 October 2010)

Hope we do hear something today.

Is anyone here a member of the TGCA? Is it worth joining up? What are the benefits? Thanks!


----------



## freespirit (22 October 2010)

I've been a member since March, Excellent website, improving all the time, On-line newsletter each month, forums, DNA profiling,studbook and Shows. I live in France but wish I could get to the shows in England with my stallion.


----------



## lachlanandmarcus (22 October 2010)

well its 7 minutes past 5 and no sign of anything on Defra's website.......wont hold my breath!


----------



## hairycob (22 October 2010)

I've been tied up all day so haven't been able to check but I guess from the last post it's not been released yet. Maybe there has been a last minute hiccup. Suffice it to say it would have been good news for those of us who have bought horses & just want to get the blasted pasports updated but not those with weanlings that need a passport for & want breeding recorded.


----------



## Sparkles (22 October 2010)

^ Ditto above. Have 14 of them needing them!!


----------



## hairycob (23 October 2010)

14! It's bad enough having to do all that paperwork without all this extra hassle.


----------



## lachlanandmarcus (25 October 2010)

DEFRA have just emailed me to advise they have appointed a PIO to take over the PPs.

Here is the link
http://www.defra.gov.uk/foodfarm/farmanimal/movements/horses/index.htm

Your gypsy cobs are now sort of Lippizaners, get practising those airs above the ground)


----------



## sywell (25 October 2010)

temporarily link to older information here that continues to be relevant and accurate.
Livestock movements
Horse passports

    * Horse passports Q & A
    * Organisations issuing horse passports
    * Legislation
    * National Equine Database
    * Contact us

Horse passports in England and Wales

All horses and ponies (and other forms of equidae) need to have a passport identifying the animal. Owners of foals need to obtain a passport for it on or before 31st December of the year of its birth, or by six months after its birth, whichever is later. Owners of older horses who have yet to apply for a horse passport should do so immediately.

Horse passports (Link to the Directgov website) - Why you need them, how to get one and what they contain.

    * Horse Passports Q&A.
    * List of Organisations and Associations that have been authorised to issue horse passports in the UK (PDF 290 KB)
    * Organisations that do not manage a studbook but authorised to issue horse passports under Domestic Horse Passport (PDF 130 KB)

Latest news

25 October 2010 - The Gypsy Cob Societys status as an approved breed society and Passport Issuing Organisation has lapsed, after the company ceased to exist.

Passports issued or updated before 25 October 2010 will remain valid.

The Lipizzaner National Stud Book Association of Great Britain will maintain existing passports issued by the Gypsy Cob Society.  All enquiries should be addressed to: chairman John Goddard-Fenwick, Cilyblaidd Manor, Pencarreg, Near Lampeter, SA40 PQL Tel: 01570 480090.  info@lipizzaner.org.u


----------



## Splish & Masons mum (25 October 2010)

lachlanandmarcus said:



			Your gypsy cobs are now sort of Lippizaners, get practising those airs above the ground)
		
Click to expand...

oh dear, someone must have told Mason already!





[/IMG]


----------



## Sparkles (25 October 2010)

Thankyou DEFRA. Aren't you so kind. Wonder just how they got that...

Think the term I'm looking for to describe this is....

*******SED!!!!!!!!!

Or completely ****ed.

Nope...how about screwed?

There we go.

Wow my week just gets better atm.


----------



## hairycob (26 October 2010)

This goes from farce to even more farcical. As well as those with weanlings whose breeding they want recorded, what happens about all the passports that were sent for amendment, then DEFRA said "absolutley not allowed to do anything after 1/9" advising the passport owner to stop the cheques & request return of passport. GCS despite promising on the phone have not returned passports. Recipe for chaos there.
AND DEFRA man told me there would be lots of publicity when the decision was made - they have not even emailed me, a known complianant, let alone issued a press release.
Re-arrange the words "brewery up a couldn't p**s organise in" as appropriate.
At least it's an explanation for Jason prancing around in the field yesterday.


----------



## mully682 (26 October 2010)

Hi,

I posted a while back that i had just bought a gypsy cob and sent my passport off with the fee, the following weeks i found out that the society had been shut down.
I have spoke to a woman called Carol at the gypsy cob society and she told me that her other committee member 'Craig Thompson' went ahead and disolved the company and started another at companies house without her signature. This woman was in tears on the phone saying that she had no idea how he had gone and done this without her knowledge!! I am sorry to say this was not my problem and asked that she send my passport immediatley back with the fee that i had sent which she agreed to do. This now is 9 days ago and i still haven't recieved either and i am fuming and now she is not answering her phone!
I have spoke with Defra who told me that i need to get it sorted or i could be at risk of getting a fine, i mean me i haven't done no wrong!! I must add Defra have been a waste of time and all they keep telling you to do is get in touch with Trading standards but i just keep being passed from pillar to post.
I do not know what to do now as i have no copies of her bloodlines either.
If anyone can give me any advice i would like to hear from you.
Thanx


----------



## SonnysHumanSlave (26 October 2010)

I just put my horses passport number into NED and it says Equine not found :s
He's not registered with gypsey Society, his passport is with The Spotted Horse And Pony Society.
Again this looks like a crap photocopied passport I could have made myself!


----------



## SonnysHumanSlave (26 October 2010)

And the spotted horse and pony society dissolved in february :s


----------



## Feathered (26 October 2010)

Lipizzaner stud book! How did they come up with that?! Giving the PIO to the TGCA would have much more sense... it seems rather odd to have my coloured traditional passported with the lipizzaner stud book! 
Can't I just cancel the whole thing and get him redone with CHAPS?

Ok off to google the lipizzaner folks now and see about getting the ownership details changed finally.

Theres no way I'm telling Hurley, he has enough trouble keeping 4 feet on the ground!


----------



## Sparkles (26 October 2010)

It's a load of crap and I hope DEFRA sodding realises the **** storm of problems they've just made!!!


----------



## hairycob (26 October 2010)

Well I checked just before 5 & still no press release on the website. DEFRA's incompetence is beyond belief. I actually have an email stating that they will publicise the decision by press release! I had a phone call Thursday evening from an involved party telling me what was happening so how come by Tuesday evening they have not publicised it properly? I really hope they read this thread because I want them to know what a total load of *@#* I think they are!

The sum of their advice to people who have sent passports in for amendment - ask for it back! How are you supposed to do that when the organisation in question has gone from not answering the phone to leaving it off the hook? And when I have managed to speak to them they promise to send it back & then do nothing. Am I supposedto drive to Cumbria & stand on the bloody doorstep? Because I have been trying every 15 minutes since 1:30 today & every time it's "busy". I stopped my cheque because DEFRA said no way , no how were they allowed to amend passports from 2/9, now on the website they say amendments up to 25/10 are valid. I'm not sending a  replacement cheque without knowing ewhat is happening with my passport.


Who is more incompetent GCS or DEFRA - it's a tough ask.


----------



## The_snoopster (26 October 2010)

Does anyone know who as taken over the spotted horse and pony passports as I have to register my foal soon and the studs covering cetificate as their name on it. I am not being a snob but I have used a registered stallion and would like to have a decent passport for my filly.


----------



## Cuffey (26 October 2010)

The_snoopster said:



			Does anyone know who as taken over the spotted horse and pony passports as I have to register my foal soon and the studs covering cetificate as their name on it. I am not being a snob but I have used a registered stallion and would like to have a decent passport for my filly.
		
Click to expand...


This is Defra info which may or may not help!!!

Clearly only updates are being handled--so you may have to choose another PIO--sorry not sure

826015
British Spotted Pony Society
20/02/1996
&#56256;&#56333; Miss Zena Jackson (Registrar)
Hazelbank
Sandy Lane
Antrobus
Northwich
Cheshire
CW9 6NU
&#8481; 07774 714 638
&#56256;&#56346;
www.britishspottedponysociety.co.uk
British Spotted Pony

BSPS handle SHAPS passports updates except for SHAPS special category passports (non spotted horses and ponies). These are handled by Pet&#8208;ID equine.

On the web site it does look like passports can be issued--sorry now really confused
http://www.britishspottedponysociety.co.uk/society-forms.htm


----------



## Cuffey (26 October 2010)

Too late to edit again but definitely looks like British Spotted Pony Society has taken over Spotted Horse and Pony Soc

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/article.php?aid=256369


----------



## wynter (1 November 2010)

mully682 said:



			I have spoke to a woman called Carol at the gypsy cob society and she told me that her other committee member 'Craig Thompson' went ahead and disolved the company and started another at companies house without her signature. This woman was in tears on the phone saying that she had no idea how he had gone and done this without her knowledge!!
		
Click to expand...

Sorry but that was utter rubish she was spinning you i know for a fact that she planned/ing to start up another soc for the uk and france that would only be for GC sec A's & B's .
Maybe if she spent less time trying to play lady muck and flog nags over here in France she might of just been able to run the soc better.
My stallion was reg with them again the passport was crap but i was lucky with him as he is 1/4 welsh cob with recorded breeding so i got the WPCS to issue him with one of their passports as a part bred and put wat was left of the gcs one in the bin where it belongs.

I will go in to more of what she has been doing tomorrow as its a long story.


----------



## Feathered (1 November 2010)

More on this saga in the news pages today.

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/397/303267.html


----------



## Splish & Masons mum (2 November 2010)

This story is also in the magazine this week, however this doesn't help people like Binky who want to have youngsters breeding recorded. 

I emailed the Trading Standards person Cuffey gave me the contact details for and this was the email I received back:
"Thank you for your email re substandard passports. At the moment I doubt there is a lot we can do regarding the quality of the passport, a press release was issued by DEFRA on Monday 25th October advising that  Lipizzaner National Stud Book Association of Great Britain will maintain existing GCS passports, perhaps if you contact them they will be able to issue you with a replacement of a higher standard.

With regards to Mason's passport not appearing on NED, I was told to advise people to send a COPY of the passport with a covering letter and proof of your identity eg driving licence/utility bill to NED and they will be able to add Mason's details to NED"


----------



## Battyoldbint (2 November 2010)

Philippa14 said:



			Lipizzaner stud book! How did they come up with that?! Giving the PIO to the TGCA would have much more sense... it seems rather odd to have my coloured traditional passported with the lipizzaner stud book! 
Can't I just cancel the whole thing and get him redone with CHAPS?

Ok off to google the lipizzaner folks now and see about getting the ownership details changed finally.

Theres no way I'm telling Hurley, he has enough trouble keeping 4 feet on the ground! 

Click to expand...

my boy is with chaps, spot the mistake on  ned  site
Date of Birth	 02-May-2009
Gender	Gelding
Colour	Skewbald (Black Tobiano)
Height	142cm


----------



## Roxy's Mum (24 January 2011)

I had a shoddy, awful passport from GCS which I thankfully 'lost' and am having reissued. 

Thank goodness the GCS are no longer authorised to produce passports - it has been passed to http://www.lipizzaner.org.uk/ instead (God only knows how they made that connection) although I have been assured the passport I will receive will actually be a half decent one with correct information in it.


----------

