# How important is routine to horses?



## rose bud (17 October 2011)

I was just wondering what everyones thoughts were about how important a horses routine was to them?
I always thought that routine was important to animals (it definatly is to my dog!) but have recently been told its not so important to horses.
What are peoples opinions on this and what are your routines?
Do you groom, feed etc, at the same time every
 day? I would be particulaly interested in peoples routines who have horses that live out.
Thanks.


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## Amymay (17 October 2011)

I've always kept my horses to a pretty strict routine - particularly important when they are stabled, imo.

Horses like routine.


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## StormyMoments (17 October 2011)

i think its important, horses without a routine tend to stress a lot more 

my 2 are fed at the same time each day, and brought in (when they are in not currently) but riding and grooming can be done anytime 

currently they are living out 24/7 and they are fed at the same times each day and are ridden about the same too


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## fidleyspromise (17 October 2011)

Mine are out 24/7, not fed the same time every day (I work shifts) and yet when I drive up I can see them from a distance, both relaxed, both grazing.  When the car gets close to their field, they come to the fence and by the time I take their feeds out, they're standing at the gate. 
They're groomed when I'm there, they're brought in a handful of times a week sometimes one week more than others and I do different things with them.
No stress, no fuss.

I really think it depends on the horse.  Both of mine are natives but the younger one can be very uptight and stress easily and yet she is perfectly content with this.  

One of the other horses on the yard is very stressy, but whether this is due to having no routine or no buddy in her field, I'm not sure as I don't know her particularly well.
She doesn't catch easily, she constantly neighs and careers around when I remove my two (she has other horses she can see) and when I arrive in the morning, she is trotting in circles around her paddock.


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## Fantasy_World (17 October 2011)

I don't have any set routine with my horses, when stabled or out at grass.
The two reasons for doing that are firstly security, so that people don't see you arriving and leaving at certain times of the day.
Secondly for the horses benefit. Say if I was late in turning out/bringing in, giving extra feed and so on due to an unforeseen problem or emergency I would not want my horses to become unwell.
We cannot guarantee to be there at the same time every day to see to our horses. A big cheer to those that are able to do so though. Traffic problems and all sorts of reasons can delay our trips to and from a yard. Now unless you have a very kind person or persons who could see to your horses in an emergency then I'm afraid you are stuck.
Any delay for whatever reason could cause stress to your horse, be it stressing being out or in that bit longer, waiting for an extra feed or forage. This stress can then become an issue that can lead to colic. As I have a horse that does get colic from time to time, I am not going to risk him getting into a set routine. If I do this and plans go awry then I don't want to risk him getting colic and nor do I want my other horses stressing unnecessarily.


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## PorkChop (17 October 2011)

amymay said:



			I've always kept my horses to a pretty strict routine - particularly important when they are stabled, imo.

Horses like routine.
		
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This


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## mcrobbiena (17 October 2011)

I try to stick to a routine but the routine does change!! If they are competing the routine is more strict but at the moment they are all off work and I am hoping to have them out 24/7 over the winter. I can see them from my parents kitchen window in the field they are about 200yards away which you may say is very lucky but I end up rushing out every time they lie down thinking there is something wrong! But its great if its peeing down with rain and they are standing at the gate they come in, but if its peeing down with rain and they are stood out eating and seem fine I leave them until they decide they have had enough! They get fed around the same time every night but again if they look content I leave it a bit later or if they are standing about waiting i feed them. They will hopefully remain low maintenace and not get too diva-ish at being waited on hand and foot!Also good as you can tell when they get bothered by flies to go out and give them another squirt or fly repellant or bring them in for a rest from them.


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## ihatework (17 October 2011)

Most horses like and thrive on routine. 
HOWEVER don't make the mistake of having of having them dependant on routine, there is a fine line.

I work my horses at all times of the day, from before brekkie to when it is pitch balck at 8pm at night. I expect them to not get brekkie/dinner at X'oclock on the dot. If they need to stay in their stable for a morning for whatever reason then I expect them to do that without turning into a hysterical mess .... if you get my meaning!


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## Zimzim (17 October 2011)

My horses are in a routine but thats because I work full time so its just how it is. Also I recently got a youngster who was just youst to being out in a field so I got him into a routine of coming in at night etc and he settled very quickly and learnt manners very quickly too. Its also kept him relaxed as Im in the process of getting him ready to be backed and broken in.

 But they are not dependant on it as sometimes they have to be kept in a morning or have limited turnout due to the weather etc but its helped them stay relaxed when things do change, if you know what I mean.


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## Amymay (17 October 2011)

ihatework said:



			Most horses like and thrive on routine. 
HOWEVER don't make the mistake of having of having them dependant on routine, there is a fine line.

I work my horses at all times of the day, from before brekkie to when it is pitch balck at 8pm at night. I expect them to not get brekkie/dinner at X'oclock on the dot. If they need to stay in their stable for a morning for whatever reason then I expect them to do that without turning into a hysterical mess .... if you get my meaning!
		
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I think you've put it really well, thank you.

Most of us are forced in to a routine, because we do our horses around our working lives.  So Monday - Friday we're always going to be on the yard at X am, because we have to be in work an hour or so later.  This shouldn't mean that arriving half an hour later at the weekend causes our horses stress out - but I would expect the horse whose owner turns up an hour or so later to be pretty peed off.

Likewise, horses get in to a major routine in the winter around brining in time.  Most yards have a bringing in curfew - so it's inevitable that from around X pm horses start to gather near a gate awaiting collection.

Essentially routine is good for us and good for our horses.


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## stencilface (17 October 2011)

I think a lot of the winter hanging around at gates is more to do with the lack of food in the field than the time.  If there was ample food/grass I think less would wait.  I know ours wait for us, but then they are greedy pigs!


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## Amymay (17 October 2011)

Stencilface said:



			I think a lot of the winter hanging around at gates is more to do with the lack of food in the field than the time.  If there was ample food/grass I think less would wait.  I know ours wait for us, but then they are greedy pigs! 

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Not where I've kept my horses - grazing has always been excellent, regardless of time of year.


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## stencilface (17 October 2011)

I think grazing can be excellent in coverage, length etc, but still in winter it is not the same as the nice rich spring/summer/autumn grass and horses just want a nice bit of tasty hay or hard feed.


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## Sarah1 (17 October 2011)

It's an interesting one this is - we have 5 now, all are very happy, not stressed and all very chilled - even the ex racehorse.  They are in a routine but if that routine needs to change for whatever reason it does and the horses take it in their stride.  
They are not always ridden at the same time every time and during the winter when they come in at night they're turned out 6am ish during the week but then probably not until 9am at the weekend (they are of course provided with extra hay & water on those days).  None of them are climbing the walls to get out & all will walk out calmly and/or be ridden straight from the box.
A friend of mine has a very sensitive mare who is in a fairly strict routine and if that routine changes the mare gets very upset.  My friend advises me it's not just her mare - all of the horses on the yard (who are in the same routine) are the same.
We joke that we are very lucky ours are so relaxed but I rather think that it's a bit more than luck - we have 5 which are all the same after all!!!!!!  Maybe too strict a routine is not good?!


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## jenki13 (17 October 2011)

My horse doesn't have a routine. She's out 24/7 and doesn't get fed, she gets ridden at different times and on different days every week.

I think if horses are brought in exactly the same time, ridden the same time & fed exactly set this can cause problems as the come to expect the routine & get stressed/ill if this doesn't happen for example if the owner is ill/away/has to work late/traffic problems etc.

Having routine in the fact that they get brought in over night / day, get fed in the stable, put in with the same horses is good and can possibly increase confidence as long as it isn't very strict & doesn't lead to the above. 

Fine line... but mines always happy munching in the field!


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## JenTaz (17 October 2011)

taz has a routine while he is living in, he's been out since we moved yards but will come back to live in when i return from my holiday on friday, i aim to be at the yard between half 8 and nine, feed and muckout while he's eating, good groom then ride usually about an hour atfter he's been fed, if not he gets turned out, and brought in about five...if not ridden in morning will ride in afternoon and gets brought in early settled in stable with dinner hay and water for about 7pm, luckily i can manage this due to being signed off work due to injury when i can go back to work i will be working nights so should be ok


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## PitPony (17 October 2011)

I think it really depends on your horse and your circumstances. 
My horse depends on a routine to be sane and relaxed! She can cope with an bit of time either side and prefers things to be early rather than late...it is just the way she is. She was even known to count the horses going out or coming in and if they were done in a different order would stand at her field nearest the yard and scream at the people as they walked past!
She doesn't do that now but she still watches...keeps them humans on their toes! 
I can't have her in an indoor stable as she becomes depressed...I just learnt various things along the way with her...she doesnt even like it if you do her rug before taking off her bandages...she stands and tuts and stares at you as if you are a moron!! she likes things done in a certain way and a certain order most of the time...the proper way as she sees it!!
Luckily the other horses on the yard are not all so particular...
One mare went in to freefall when her owner bought another horse mind you...couldnt cope with it...took ages to come round to it...she is another sensitive mare!!
I dont think when ridden is particularly important to a horses routine...but they generally like to know when things are going to happen like food being delivered!!
I am now looking after about 15 ponies each morning and it is interesting to see their reaction to my routine...


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## Luci07 (17 October 2011)

Routine where food is included is very very important and even when I was on DIY I didnt deviate from the feed times. I would do friends horses in the morning during the week and they would bring in. Weekends we would swap.  Occasionally breakfast could be delayed as I am up very early to ride so if I am tacking up at breakfast time he gets a handful. Grooming/exercise doesn't matter. Coming in and out does. Grass livery is a different matter but even then the GL at our yard know when they can expect their hard feed and are waiting for it.


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## xRobyn (17 October 2011)

ihatework said:



			If they need to stay in their stable for a morning for whatever reason then I expect them to do that without turning into a hysterical mess .... if you get my meaning!
		
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Exactly this. Phil will happily graze on his own if left out last and doesn't stress if I am not down at exact times, however I do keep it between 6.30am-7.30am and bringing in after 5.30pm.

Routine is definitely good imo, but having a horse rely on routine to the extent where it is dependent makes things much trickier if emergencies arise.


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## FionaM12 (17 October 2011)

I work really strange hours so it's going to be hard to stick to an exact routine. It's been okay so far, Mollie's been out 24/7 and entirely grass fed. But now she's in at night, and soon will be in all the time. I'm very much hoping that the slightly varying routine I can provide for her won't stress her too much.


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## Megibo (17 October 2011)

Horses enjoy a routine, they learn it and get less stressed.

Also depends on type, my college teacher has a warmblood that does his nut if his routine is changed a smidge, and my native is pretty happy with whatever! But all our lot are definitely more antsy on the days we get up the yard. And when they were stabled on livery apparently they'd be silent and good as gold until we strolled onto the yard and then they were kicking ten bells out of their doors...


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## Lucinda_x (17 October 2011)

My horses have a pretty strict routine coming in at 9 in the morning from the field (Soon to swap so there in at night!) and me getting to the yard at 4 after school and ride, feed and then out


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## tallyho! (17 October 2011)

Some people like to have a routine... some think it isn't necessary. Having worked at several yards, I can honestly say I don't think most horses really care.

At one strict yard, things had to change due to a sudden heart attack. Routine then changed dramatically and the horses just took it in their stride. 

Although I appreciate some horses benefit from routine when in full work. I feel it is much healthier not to be too strict with them or ourselves.


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## fruit03 (17 October 2011)

my two live out 24/7, in the summer there is no routine although i do see them in the afternoons and always have done. in the winter they get their feed after midday, some days it may be 2pm others it may not be til 5pm, they seem quite happy with that - although if they are fed just after midday and if i am unable to get up until 5pm the next day put it this way they are very pleased to see me i also keep an eye on the weather in the winter and tend to wait until later if rugs need changing.  from my experience it is important to have a routine but not too strict or set in stone hope this helps


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## ebonyallen (17 October 2011)

I think its very important to have a routine, my girl thrives on it, she can almost tell you what comes next and does get a bit stressy if things are even a little bit off time. She will be waiting a the gate in the winter screaming when the car turns up if a little late, which I really try not to be as it seems to effect her. I have known other people who say horses do not need rountine but I think that they do


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## koeffee (17 October 2011)

i try not to be to regimental!!! im at the yard between 8 and 9 everyday, but i never hard feed first thing, always hay and water and alter who gets it first!!! i have one mare who on a previous yard was in such a strict routine that the first time they were 20 mins late she took her door off the hinges and didnt do it once either!!! its taken a week but the mare is now happy and settled doesnt go nuts at the door for food when i arrive. routine works to a point, but my lot know my routine and are happy muching about until there fed, all are happy healthy and settled!!


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## Mince Pie (17 October 2011)

Neither of mine had a routine until they went onto full grass livery. Over the summer whilst they were living out I never get there at the same time of the day and neither of them seemed bothered - including my ex racer!


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## JFTDWS (17 October 2011)

My routine is to have no routine.  My horses are all out 24/7 and really aren't bothered - they get fed in the evening - any time between 6 and 9ish, they get worked in the evening some weekdays, mornings on weekends, sometimes weekend afternoons or evenings.  If I'm competing in the morning on one I ride the other in the evening and vice versa.  When they are stabled they keep "odd" routines - out about 9, in about 10pm because of work, but I expect them to accept any routine I throw at them (provided they have access to forage and get fed at some point).  They aren't stressy, they're some of the most relaxed horses I've ever known - they seem perfectly happy with their lack of routine.


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## Dancing Queen (17 October 2011)

dogs, horses and children need routine.

My horses are kept in a fairly strict routine as they are stabled at night.


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## pepsimaxrock (17 October 2011)

I dont stress about routine so neither does my horse x


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## unbalanced (17 October 2011)

I am one of those bad people who has a different routine in the week and at weekends but my native is fine on it. Weekdays I am at the yard (private yard, less than half a dozen horses and only two of those are in, the other is a stallion) by half past six in the morning and she is fed and out by seven. She gets ridden in the evenings but the time I get there to bring her in varies from four until eight and she is never waiting at the gate - she is always stuffing that last mouthful of grass in when I wander over. She sometimes comes in for a bit in the day if YO wants to put the stallion in her field for a bit.
Weekends are completely different. YO feeds and hays her at 7.30 ish (but it might be 5 if she's going to a show!) and I don't get there until maybe 10. I know it sounds bad but I am knackered by the weekend, I like organising myself in the mornings and not rushing to the yard in the dark and I am always greeted by a perfectly content pony with a half empty haynet so why not? She gets ridden then goes out usually (but not always) - delightful, easily managed creature. Love her.


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## Amymay (18 October 2011)

JFTD said:



			My routine is to have no routine.  My horses are all out 24/7 and really aren't bothered -
		
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I do think that's completely different though.  And for horses out 24/7 I would agree that routine is almost irrelevant.

For the stabled horse, though, I think it's terribly important.  My biggest bugbear is those that can't drag their sorry backsides out of bed on a weekend, and expects their horse to wait for them patiently in their stable until the owner can be bothered to turn up.  That, in my eyes, is really unacceptable.


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## MrsMozart (18 October 2011)

Our horses seem pretty relaxed about our routine, or lack of it. Two prefer things to happen every day, such as being worked, so we make sure that happens six days a week.

With winter coming they will be stabled at night from next weekend. We don't have a curfew, so they will come in as late as possible, due to a couple of them needing to spend less time in a stable (stiffen up). The actual time will no doubt vary.

When stabled they always have extra water and ad lib hay just in case we are late up in the morning for any reason. When that has happened the horses have not stressed, but that could be because they have food, water and company.

I think that as two of the gang are stressy by nature, if we were to have a strict routine (as in set times), then if we were to miss those times for any reason (can't call a horse and explain when one is going to be late ), then both horses would get very worked up. Our way of doing things seems, at the moment, to work - as with all things, one has to keep revieiwing


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## fburton (18 October 2011)

It is "traditional" to view routine as important, reflecting military roots. However, I think what stresses horses if it is missing is _predictability_. They don't like events that are unexpected.

In the context of a feeding routine, for example, they are happy when sounds of feed being prepared are followed shortly by the arrival of their feed. If they have learned to expect feeding at a certain time of day (typically signalled by other things happening), then they will naturally become upset if it's delayed beyond the usual time. In this case, having established a routine, it's important to stick to it for the wellbeing of the horse. On the other hand, if there is no routine in the first place, there isn't any expectations to be thwarted. So I think routine is fine if you are diligent in adhering to it, otherwise horses may be better off without it.


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## Sarah1 (18 October 2011)

amymay said:



			My biggest bugbear is those that can't drag their sorry backsides out of bed on a weekend, and expects their horse to wait for them patiently in their stable until the owner can be bothered to turn up.  That, in my eyes, is really unacceptable.
		
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I get 1 lay in a week if I'm lucky - I work full time, have an 11 month old daughter who thinks sleep after 6am is for losers and have my horse on DIY livery and so if my horse has to wait for an extra couple of hours without getting his pants in a twist then that's what he has to do!  He has adequate hay & water and company.

However, unless something drastic has happened then I don't get there later than 9am if I know he's in his box.


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## Amymay (18 October 2011)

Sarah1 said:



			I get 1 lay in a week if I'm lucky - I work full time, have an 11 month old daughter who thinks sleep after 6am is for losers and have my horse on DIY livery and so if my horse has to wait for an extra couple of hours without getting his pants in a twist then that's what he has to do!  He has adequate hay & water and company.

However, unless something drastic has happened then I don't get there later than 9am if I know he's in his box.
		
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I'm not saying I'm right - but it's my view point.  And goodness knows having a young family and a horse is hard work - especially when they're on DIY.  I've watched several of my friends raise their families around their horses and know just how hard they work to strike the balance.

Do horse owners get a lie in?  I certainly never do - and I don't have kids,  - but then thankfully I don't have to work out that balance - hence perhaps my opinionated viewpoint


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## Cocorules (18 October 2011)

I think routine helps a lot and is particularly noticeable with youngsters. That said routines do get upset and horses need to be able to cope with that. I do have a routine because of work but work requires me to be flexible with my hours sometimes and the horses have to adjust.  They cope better with changes now they are out 24/7.


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## Sarah1 (18 October 2011)

amymay said:



			I'm not saying I'm right - but it's my view point.  And goodness knows having a young family and a horse is hard work - especially when they're on DIY.  I've watched several of my friends raise their families around their horses and know just how hard they work to strike the balance.

Do horse owners get a lie in?  I certainly never do - and I don't have kids,  - but then thankfully I don't have to work out that balance - hence perhaps my opinionated viewpoint

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Trust me - when you have kids and you never have a night of unbroken sleep you need the occasional lie in! 

ETS - It's also very difficult in a morning to just get up and go when you have a baby to feed & dress before you can leave the house!


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## Sarah1 (18 October 2011)

I also meant to add that it's a little short sighted to say that those of us that don't get there at 6am on a weekend 'can't drag our arses out of bed' and our horses are 'waiting until we can be bothered to turn up' - some people have other commitments!


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## catkin (18 October 2011)

If you mean routine of exact times then no, I don't have routine and the horses don't seem to mind. However, there is structure to our days in so much that we do certain activities at roughly the same parts of the day, in at night, out during the day, ridden usually in the morning etc. They know that they will be fed at some time in the morning,  they will come in at some point in the evening, and there's a night stable check after dark, apart from that things can change and they seem quite chilled and happy with the arrangement.


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## Amymay (18 October 2011)

Sarah1 said:



			I also meant to add that it's a little short sighted to say that those of us that don't get there at 6am on a weekend 'can't drag our arses out of bed' and our horses are 'waiting until we can be bothered to turn up' - some people have other commitments!
		
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Lord, even I don't do 6am on a weekend - that's strictly weekdays only.  I aim to be on the yard by around 7.30 on a weekend.


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## stencilface (18 October 2011)

Our horses get done later at the weekends than in the week.  Why? Because I don't need to get up that early and think my OH appreciates two days a week when my alarm doesn't go off at 5.50am.  Do the horses care? No.  They get extra hay on weekend nights to last them through til 8.30.  My horses fit around me as much as possible, if I didn't work they wouldn't get fed and lie ins make me a happier person


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## mcrobbiena (18 October 2011)

So...everyone with very strict routines do you compete?? If so how do you cope with feeding them if you have a 3 hour journey and need to leave before their feeding time but have to feed an hour before this to avoid colic?? Or what if you have to leave early to compete with one horse but have another at home what do you do then??? I try to keep a routine but it isnt strict, I work full time and I compete I also have a pony with sweetitch who has to be in at a certain time before flies etc or of it is particularly bad he stays in 24/7 only being excercised while still remaining covered up. The horses are all healthy, none have had colic (touch wood) only had one lameness for a week or so i think it was just a bruised sole as she has no shoes. Also what do you do if you are away on holiday or away at a wedding or something does someone else looka fter them? and how do you know they stick to your routine??


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## Wagtail (18 October 2011)

Routine is very important to horses. However, they can also be extremely flexible. For example, I keep them out 24/7 for most of the summer, but if the conditions are too windy, rainy, thundery etc then they will come in for the night. They usually seem very pleased to come in, but do not expect that just because they come in one night, they will come in the next. They are chilled with either. 

But feeding times should always be kept very regular, I think.


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## Amymay (18 October 2011)

So...everyone with very strict routines do you compete??
		
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Good question.  I guess you only have to look at big competition yards to know the answer to that one.

Things run like clockwork and to time, however, routine often goes out of the window when away competing, with the exception most often of morning stables.


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## MiCsarah (18 October 2011)

I like routine, my boy is quite stressy so is much more settled with routine


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## mcrobbiena (18 October 2011)

Well, I have worked in a few yards myself all competition yards, and teh horses going to shows always got fed an hour before leaving and the grooms did the rest as usual but the competing horses were sometimes being fed 2 or 3 hours early sometime 5 or 6 hours later than usual at night and I never had one die on me or be in the slightest peturbed. It is all very well to say look at the competition yards but some yards are really NOT doing things right so not always good to take their word as gospel and also if you are on your own with your horses they need to fit around you. It annoys me how some people are so closed minded-yes horses like routine but they will not die if they are fed later one morning or later at night and just because you don't agree doen't mean to say it is wrong. i dont have horses to prove how disciplined I am, I have horses because I love the sport and I love my horses. I am sure your average old nag who hacks out every day at the same time, sees the same face every day lives on its own or with the same horses day in day out would welcome a mornings hunting or a wee gymkana even if it does mean it is getting fed an hour early.


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## PolarSkye (18 October 2011)

Daisy dancer said:



			I was just wondering what everyones thoughts were about how important a horses routine was to them?
I always thought that routine was important to animals (it definatly is to my dog!) but have recently been told its not so important to horses.
What are peoples opinions on this and what are your routines?
Do you groom, feed etc, at the same time every
 day? I would be particulaly interested in peoples routines who have horses that live out.
Thanks.
		
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Well, I can only speak for mine - who thrives on a strict routine and lets me know when I'm late or deviating from said routine - how he tells time I don't know but you could set your watch by him!

He isn't so fussy about when he's ridden - but he does like to go out/come in at the same time and expects his meals/haylage to turn up at the appointed times.  He also knows which rugs mean what . . . as in turnout rugs mean outside/play time, stable rugs mean snooze/relax time.  

What's funny, though, is that he doesn't seem to mind if he doesn't go into the same field every night - or with the same horses - just as long as he's out, has access to grass and has adequate company.  He has his favourites who he would prefer to be with, but he isn't overwrought if he doesn't go out with them.

P


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## Amymay (18 October 2011)

mcrobbiena said:



			It annoys me how some people are so closed minded
		
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I don't think you need to be annoyed about it.  Just accept that people only want the best for their horses - and for me that means a routine that I pretty much stick to.

It doesn't work for everyone - and it's not important to everyone.  But essentially all any of us want to do is look after our horses to the best of our abilities, in whichever way we think works best for us.


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## mcrobbiena (18 October 2011)

well then why be soo annoyed at people who can't drag their arse out of bed in the morning?? Maybe their horse was given hay the the previouse night at midnight and will not starve to death if left a little later in the morning! Surely that is better than people who last see their horses at 5pm at night and don't see them until  7am leaving them 14 hours without anything... and if you get up 2 hours later at the weekend that will be 16 hours.


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## Sarah1 (18 October 2011)

amymay said:



			Lord, even I don't do 6am on a weekend - that's strictly weekdays only.  I aim to be on the yard by around 7.30 on a weekend.
		
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Out of interest, when you're at the yard at 7:30am, at the weekend, what time do you have to get out of bed in a morning?


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## Amymay (18 October 2011)

mcrobbiena said:



			well then why be soo annoyed at people who can't drag their arse out of bed in the morning??
		
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Because it annoys me that someone can have so little consideration for their horse to do that.

You, however, are annoyed at a point of view - big difference.


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## Amymay (18 October 2011)

Sarah1 said:



			Out of interest, when you're at the yard at 7:30am, at the weekend, what time do you have to get out of bed in a morning?
		
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Well, it's only 5 mins down the road, so I could get out of bed at 7.25.  But I probably get out of bed at around 6.45.  Feed cats, have coffee and some toast etc. have a little potter, then jump in the car.  I'm naturally an early riser, so I suppose I don't find it difficult getting up, which does make a difference to my day.


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## Sarah1 (18 October 2011)

mcrobbiena said:



			well then why be soo annoyed at people who can't drag their arse out of bed in the morning?? Maybe their horse was given hay the the previouse night at midnight and will not starve to death if left a little later in the morning! Surely that is better than people who last see their horses at 5pm at night and don't see them until  7am leaving them 14 hours without anything... and if you get up 2 hours later at the weekend that will be 16 hours.
		
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Agreed.

My horse has a huge haynet I can actually fit in it without being curled into a ball!!  On a Friday & Saturday night that net is filled to bursting and in the morning, even at 9am, he still hasn't managed to eat it all!  He has the biggest tub trug bucket you can find - it's full to the brim & I can't even drag it to his stable on my own.  He also has an automatic drinker in there.

He's in a mare & foal box so his stable is enormous - plenty of room for him to mooch about if he wants.

Do I think it's cruel - considering the above things - to leave him in his stable until maybe 9am?  Absolutely not, he'll be ridden when I get there & then have the whole day in the field with another huge mound of hay, to do whatever he wants!

He has the life of riley - I don't think it's unfair to expect him to wait a couple of hours without turning into a crazed lunatic!


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## Sarah1 (18 October 2011)

amymay said:



			Well, it's only 5 mins down the road, so I could get out of bed at 7.25.  But I probably get out of bed at around 6.45.  Feed cats, have coffee and some toast etc. have a little potter, then jump in the car.  I'm naturally an early riser, so I suppose I don't find it difficult getting up, which does make a difference to my day.
		
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Well in my world 6:45am is a lie in so when you asked if horse owners get any lie in's I'd say, yes, they clearly do! 

Ah the joys of my daughter!  I wouldn't swap her for all the world but I kind of wish she'd sleep a bit more!!!!!!


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## mcrobbiena (18 October 2011)

amymay said:



			Because it annoys me that someone can have so little consideration for their horse to do that.

You, however, are annoyed at a point of view - big difference.

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This is true, but is it not inconsiderate to leave your hours for 16 hours? 

I am lucky, my horses are at mum and dads and the kitchen looks out onto the field so I can watch them 24/7 if they are out. The stables are up the drive so I can go out in PJ's and check them. We have ALWAYS fed hay and checked water etc alst thing at night any time after 10pm when we walk the dogs but not always early in the mornings-not early risers in my family unless there is something on. We are always out by 9am though usually before. Also between me and mum we go out to them 4 times a day. I am not sure why they are out 24/7 but because they are there and we take the dogs out it just happens! But my aunt babysite her grandkids and she sees her horses 2 times a day at 10am and at 8 or 9pm. I cant see how this is worse than sseing them at 7am and 5pm if we are talking about the dragging arses out of bed thing!


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## Amymay (18 October 2011)

mcrobbiena said:



			This is true, but is it not inconsiderate to leave your hours for 16 hours?
		
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Sorry - you've lost me.


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## Amymay (18 October 2011)

Sarah1 said:



			Ah the joys of my daughter!  I wouldn't swap her for all the world but I kind of wish she'd sleep a bit more!!!!!! 

Click to expand...


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## mcrobbiena (18 October 2011)

well if a horse is left from 5pm at night until 7am in the morning, he has been left 14 hours in a stable. If the owner were to get up at 9am it has been left 16 hours. This more inconsiderate than giving them hay and water at midnight and going out a 9, they are only left 9hours without hay or water or being checked. Basically, I don't think it matters how early you get up to do your horse. If you dont space the times out correctly its as bad as being down later and away later that being up early and away early? or am I being a bit mental?!

We have gone of the topic of routine but you get my drift...don't you?anyone?!


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## Amymay (18 October 2011)

mcrobbiena said:



			well if a horse is left from 5pm at night until 7am in the morning, he has been left 14 hours in a stable. If the owner were to get up at 9am it has been left 16 hours. This more inconsiderate than giving them hay and water at midnight and going out a 9, they are only left 9hours without hay or water or being checked. Basically, I don't think it matters how early you get up to do your horse. If you dont space the times out correctly its as bad as being down later and away later that being up early and away early? or am I being a bit mental?!

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Oh I don't disagree with you - and am very jealous of your having them at home.

Thankfully I've always kept horses on yards where evening checks etc are done.  Which is very reassuring.


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## Sarah1 (18 October 2011)

amymay said:



			Because it annoys me that someone can have so little consideration for their horse to do that
		
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Really unfair 

Maybe I'm taking your comments a bit personally but I really take offence at the above comment - have so little consideration, are you joking?!

Do you believe that because you are able to be at the yard earlier you love your horse or care for his well being more than I do mine?

Well, I can tell you, quite emphatically, that you don't.


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## JFTDWS (18 October 2011)

I used to get a degree of bitchiness on a previous yard as I wouldn't turn up to bring my two out before 9 (weekdays / sometimes 10 on weekends) most of the time.  They would be standing chilling out in their stables - often eating or just relaxing, not stressed about it.  But since their horses were brought in before dark around 4pm and turned out at 8am, and mine came in about 11pm-midnight and went out at 9-10am I never felt too guilty


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## Amymay (18 October 2011)

Sarah1 said:



			Really unfair 

Maybe I'm taking your comments a bit personally but I really take offence at the above comment - have so little consideration, are you joking?!

Do you believe that because you are able to be at the yard earlier you love your horse or care for his well being more than I do mine?

Well, I can tell you, quite emphatically, that you don't.
		
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Please don't take them personally, because they are not aimed at you.  But you surely can understand my point of view when, for no other reason than they don't want to get out of bed, people roll on to the yard at 10.00am in the morning to do their horse.  (I'm not talking about people with young children and no one to help out).  

And no, I absolutely do not think I love my horse or care for his well being any more than you.

I am espousing my point of view only - which I fully appreciate is not everyone else's or even neccesarily right.  

And as far as your situation goes, I have the luxury of being beholden to no one, my time etc is my own - and for many, many years my life has been horses first - everything else second.

I'm sure if I had a young family then my views would be different - sometimes, even in AmyMay land there is _some_ flexibility


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## stencilface (18 October 2011)

I figure that our horses have had the same 'routine'  for years and it hasn't killed them yet. All I can assume that as long as they are stuffing their faces somewhere, they really don't give a monkeys where I am


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## Sarah1 (18 October 2011)

amymay said:



			Please don't take them personally, because they are not aimed at you.  But you surely can understand my point of view when, for no other reason than they don't want to get out of bed, people roll on to the yard at 10.00am in the morning to do their horse.  (I'm not talking about people with young children and no one to help out).  

And no, I absolutely do not think I love my horse or care for his well being any more than you.

I am espousing my point of view only - which I fully appreciate is not everyone else's or even neccesarily right.  

And as far as your situation goes, I have the luxury of being beholden to no one, my time etc is my own - and for many, many years my life has been horses first - everything else second.

I'm sure if I had a young family then my views would be different - sometimes, even in AmyMay land there is _some_ flexibility 

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I'm very touchy about it to be honest - because I was the same before my daughter came along - I had 2 babies, my dog & my horse!  They were my world (along with hubby obviously!  Keep forgetting about him!).

I do feel guilty that I don't spend the time with him that I used to but I feel more guilty about not seeing my daughter grow up.

Someone once told me that when you become a mother you always feel guilty for something and never has a truer word been spoken!!!!!!

I do have my hubby at home but, bless him, he's about as much use as a chocolate fire guard in a morning!  I like to get my daughter fed & dressed before I leave her with her Daddy for the morning & sometimes they'll come to the yard with me too.  

I'm hoping this winter will be a bit easier as last winter she was very tiny and I was feeding her myself so leaving the house before 8:30am was an impossibility!


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## showqa (18 October 2011)

We have a routine for hard feed time/haylage, and we have a routine at night once they're actually in.

Between morning and bringing in though it can vary. Weather  -if it's pouring down in the morning but the forecast says it's dry in the afternoon, clearly I'll wait until the afternoon to ride. When the farrier comes - they may have to stay in for the morning until he arrives, invariably late!! And when the weather is truly foul, they're yarded and so don't go out in the field at all. If I have to wait in all day for say the BT man, then of course they'll get ridden when he's been and gone - etc, etc.

On the whole I can't say that this presents me with much of a problem, if any. They're both quite cool customers these days (the one was a stress head when I got her), they're healthy and content.

Unless you keep your horses on a yard where someone else manages it, I think it's pretty impossible to be military like at home.


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## Mince Pie (18 October 2011)

amymay said:



			I do think that's completely different though.  And for horses out 24/7 I would agree that routine is almost irrelevant.

For the stabled horse, though, I think it's terribly important.  My biggest bugbear is those that can't drag their sorry backsides out of bed on a weekend, and expects their horse to wait for them patiently in their stable until the owner can be bothered to turn up.  That, in my eyes, is really unacceptable.
		
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Again depends on the horse, if I wanted a lie in on a weekend when my TB was in, as long as she had been given her breakfast, hay net and fresh water she wouldn't be bothered - and I would make sure the yard had provided those things.


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## Mince Pie (18 October 2011)

amymay said:



			Good question.  I guess you only have to look at big competition yards to know the answer to that one.

Things run like clockwork and to time, however, routine often goes out of the window when away competing, with the exception most often of morning stables.
		
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Big competition yards tend to have more than one groom - one who will be travelling to the show and therefore responsible for the competing horses and the other/s who will be responsible for the rest of the yard. That way the only thing that is out of routine is what time the yard gets their breakfast.


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## Mince Pie (18 October 2011)

mcrobbiena said:



			well if a horse is left from 5pm at night until 7am in the morning, he has been left 14 hours in a stable. If the owner were to get up at 9am it has been left 16 hours. This more inconsiderate than giving them hay and water at midnight and going out a 9, they are only left 9hours without hay or water or being checked. Basically, I don't think it matters how early you get up to do your horse. If you dont space the times out correctly its as bad as being down later and away later that being up early and away early? or am I being a bit mental?!

We have gone of the topic of routine but you get my drift...don't you?anyone?!
		
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Totally agree! I do mine as late as possible, and then as early as possible the next day.


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## fatpiggy (18 October 2011)

My horse definitely likes routine.  I only have to be 20 minutes "late" at weekends and she expresses her displeasure with me!  So I never feed her later than half an hour beyond her weekday times at weekends (no lying in for me!). She gets extra fodder if I know I'm going to be a tad late the next day. If I turn up at other times of the day, she is clearly very perplexed to see me at that time.  I don't see why people would think making a baby wait for a feed because it doesn't suit the mother is unacceptable and then expect an animal to do just that. In my experience animals often have incredible time perception. My cat is my furry alarm clock in the mornings and never lets me down!  Interestingly, my horse had funny little routines of her own. She won't touch her haynet or chop bucket until she has eaten at least two thirds of her hard feed and then she rotates around them in a specific order until everything is gone.  When I fetch her headcollar on she has to take the noseband in her mouth and nod it up and down 3 times before I put it on and when she is finishing her bucket feed, she takes hold of the rim and either mouthes on it or wags it up and down, again usually 3 times.  I think she is a bit strange


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## Amymay (18 October 2011)

broke_but_happy said:



			Big competition yards tend to have more than one groom - one who will be travelling to the show and therefore responsible for the competing horses and the other/s who will be responsible for the rest of the yard. That way the only thing that is out of routine is what time the yard gets their breakfast.
		
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Ovviously


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## Sarah1 (18 October 2011)

fatpiggy said:



			I only have to be 20 minutes "late" at weekends and she expresses her displeasure with me!  So I never feed her later than half an hour beyond her weekday times at weekends (no lying in for me!).
		
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Personally, I don't have the time or inclination to allow an animal to determine my daily schedule!



fatpiggy said:



			I don't see why people would think making a baby wait for a feed because it doesn't suit the mother is unacceptable and then expect an animal to do just that
		
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Because a horse is a horse and not a baby!


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## Mlini (18 October 2011)

My horse likes routine  especially when it's feed & turn out. If I turn up late to feed and turn him out he looks a bit grumpy! He is an ex-racer and has always been used to a routine. I like to turn him out (with his feed) as early as possible, I don't think it matters what time you do everything else (i.e ride/groom etc)

Every horse is different though.. There is a lady on my yard that wont feed her horse at the same time every day because he starts door-kicking if he doesn't get it on time.


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## JFTDWS (18 October 2011)

fatpiggy said:



			I don't see why people would think making a baby wait for a feed because it doesn't suit the mother is unacceptable and then expect an animal to do just that.
		
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Sometimes I wonder if the world has gone mad.  Probably has something to do with the fact that most sane people wouldn't turn a baby out naked in a field of grass, fenced in with electric tape for the day...  Or tuck a baby up in a straw filled stable with a bucket of water and a hay net for the night.  Nor indeed, do most folk expect to saddle up their baby and take it for a ride 

Need I state the obvious further?  Horses are not children, and shouldn't be treated as such


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## Sarah1 (18 October 2011)

JFTD said:



			Nor indeed, do most folk expect to saddle up their baby and take it for a ride 

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As far as I've been able to gather that is generally frowned upon!


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## Amymay (18 October 2011)

Sarah1 said:



			As far as I've been able to gather that is generally frowned upon! 

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They'd be far too small to be comfortable anyway.....


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## Sarah1 (18 October 2011)

amymay said:



			They'd be far too small to be comfortable anyway..... 

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## Sarah1 (18 October 2011)

JFTD said:



			Or tuck a baby up in a straw filled stable with a bucket of water and a hay net for the night
		
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You're a genius!  A solution to my sleep deprivation issues...


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## JFTDWS (18 October 2011)

Sarah1 said:



			You're a genius!
		
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And yet I'm still waiting on my Nobel prize


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## Sarah1 (18 October 2011)

JFTD said:



			And yet I'm still waiting on my Nobel prize 

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Disgusting


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## 123Jump! (18 October 2011)

i guess it depends on the horse really. if your horse has always had a routine and then it stops, its gonna be stressful


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## fatpiggy (18 October 2011)

Well if my horse is my baby, she's a gynaecological miracle.  I NEVER said I treated her like one, merely compared what is apparently acceptable in animals to what is (I hope) unacceptable in humans.  If you want to be selfish and lazy and leave your animal hanging around wondering what is going on, fair play, that is your conscience not mine.  But my horse has never kicked the door down waiting for food, coliced with the stress of waiting or taken up vices such as cribbing. Plus I prefer to get up early at weekends, get my horse jobs done and have the rest of the day free to do all the other hobbies I have rather than lie in bed wasting the day.  But of course, that was how I was brought up, including having respect for the needs of my pets.


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## JFTDWS (18 October 2011)

fatpiggy said:



			If you want to be selfish and lazy and leave your animal hanging around wondering what is going on, fair play, that is your conscience not mine.  *But my horse has never kicked the door down waiting for food, coliced with the stress of waiting or taken up vices such as cribbing.* Plus I prefer to get up early at weekends, get my horse jobs done and have the rest of the day free to do all the other hobbies I have rather than lie in bed wasting the day.  But of course, that was how I was brought up, including having respect for the needs of my pets.
		
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Well that's just rude   Although one doesn't care to tempt fate, my horses have never had colic, displayed signs of stress or developed stable vices either, thanks very much.  I dispute the notion that horses are capable of "wondering what's going on" in the sense that you mean it, but I can guarentee you mine are less stressed than your horse, who by your own admission is upset when you are even slightly late.

It's obnoxious of you to suggest that those of us who sort our horses later on weekends are "lying in bed, wasting the day" as this is regularly not the case, e.g. Sarah1 goes up later as she has a small child, I tend to be walking the dog etc.  I would also suggest that it is equally plausible to swap this thread round and ask how late you bother to check on your horse at night?  Or are you too busy rushing off to bed / to the pub to care?  Just because you choose to keep your horse as you do doesn't mean that the rest of us are compelled to abide by your priorities - you clearly value your routine and think it is first class.  I personally value my horses' 24/7 turnout and would gladly sacrific a routine to be somewhere where I can be sure they get this.  There's more than one way to skin a cat - or indeed to keep a horse happy.

Your analogy between children and horses is unfounded and flawed by nature.  It is inevitable that some things which are acceptable for animals are not acceptable for humans - as my previous post illustrated.  Perhaps that bypassed you?


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## Janah (18 October 2011)

I have a routine and I tend to stick to it.  But, an hour or two either way they are used to.
I think if you do a very strict routine you are going to stress yourself, not yourself.


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## Pearlsasinger (18 October 2011)

fburton said:



			It is "traditional" to view routine as important, reflecting military roots. However, I think what stresses horses if it is missing is _predictability_. They don't like events that are unexpected.

In the context of a feeding routine, for example, they are happy when sounds of feed being prepared are followed shortly by the arrival of their feed. If they have learned to expect feeding at a certain time of day (typically signalled by other things happening), then they will naturally become upset if it's delayed beyond the usual time. In this case, having established a routine, it's important to stick to it for the wellbeing of the horse. On the other hand, if there is no routine in the first place, there isn't any expectations to be thwarted. So I think routine is fine if you are diligent in adhering to it, otherwise horses may be better off without it.
		
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I couldn't have put it better myself!

Our horses live at home and their routine is that they hear the sounds of us getting up etc and then go out, in winter.  They hear us come home from work and then come in for their tea etc.  It really doesn't matter what time any of these things happen, so long as they happen in the right order.

I really cannot abide the dogmatic way in which some people insist that their way is the only right way.


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## tallyho! (18 October 2011)

yeah I have to agree with jburton & pearlsasinger...

routines were created to make life simpler and more predictable. if you lead an unpredictable life then create routine for your horses at your peril!

but I don't think horses NEED routine. no-one NEEDS a routine... they just sort of happen and evolve all by themselves according to the order of life .

If you WANT a routine to make life flow better then by all means thats what you must do and goodness knows, every so often, it damned useful!!


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## Sarah1 (19 October 2011)

JFTD said:



			Well that's just rude   Although one doesn't care to tempt fate, my horses have never had colic, displayed signs of stress or developed stable vices either, thanks very much.  I dispute the notion that horses are capable of "wondering what's going on" in the sense that you mean it, but I can guarentee you mine are less stressed than your horse, who by your own admission is upset when you are even slightly late.

It's obnoxious of you to suggest that those of us who sort our horses later on weekends are "lying in bed, wasting the day" as this is regularly not the case, e.g. Sarah1 goes up later as she has a small child, I tend to be walking the dog etc.  I would also suggest that it is equally plausible to swap this thread round and ask how late you bother to check on your horse at night?  Or are you too busy rushing off to bed / to the pub to care?  Just because you choose to keep your horse as you do doesn't mean that the rest of us are compelled to abide by your priorities - you clearly value your routine and think it is first class.  I personally value my horses' 24/7 turnout and would gladly sacrific a routine to be somewhere where I can be sure they get this.  There's more than one way to skin a cat - or indeed to keep a horse happy.

Your analogy between children and horses is unfounded and flawed by nature.  It is inevitable that some things which are acceptable for animals are not acceptable for humans - as my previous post illustrated.  Perhaps that bypassed you? 

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This ^^^^^^^

Couldn't have put it better myself!


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## Sarah1 (19 October 2011)

fatpiggy said:



			Well if my horse is my baby, she's a gynaecological miracle.  I NEVER said I treated her like one, merely compared what is apparently acceptable in animals to what is (I hope) unacceptable in humans.  If you want to be selfish and lazy and leave your animal hanging around wondering what is going on, fair play, that is your conscience not mine.  But my horse has never kicked the door down waiting for food, coliced with the stress of waiting or taken up vices such as cribbing. Plus I prefer to get up early at weekends, get my horse jobs done and have the rest of the day free to do all the other hobbies I have rather than lie in bed wasting the day.  But of course, that was how I was brought up, including having respect for the needs of my pets.
		
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How dare you! 

FYI my horse has never kicked a door in his life, nor has he had a stable vice and I will also say he's never had colic although I feel like that's a little like tempting fate so fingers crossed, touch wood & all that!

I have been accused of being many things but never selfish or lazy!  I have a small daughter and am up very early - I dare say earlier than you most days, I do not waste a second of my day - I'm far too busy to be able to do that hence the reason why I do not allow an animal to rule my life.

Now don't get me wrong, I couldn't care less what you do with your horse, whether you're at the yard all day or what time you get there in a morning but please don't be so conceited to think your way is right and others are wrong - my horse won't bat an eyelid if I'm 2 hours 'late' let alone 20 minutes, as long as he has food & water & a bit of company he's a happy little bunny!  By your own admission your horse 'shows its displeasure' if you are even 20 minutes late and I, like JFTD, will guarantee my horse is a less stressed animal than your horse so maybe your 'routine' isn't as flawless as you seem to think it is?


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## fatpiggy (19 October 2011)

Actually, if you read my original post properly, I said that my horse likes routine, and if she that is what suites her, then so be it.  It was ME that was then insulted by being told that  because I put my horse's needs before my own, I am treating her like a baby.  As it happens that is doubly insulting to me as I can't have children, not that that is anyone's business but mine.  My horse is an animal and treated appropriately, but with care and consideration because she still has feelings, animal or otherwise.  It isn't me that puts glittery hoof oil on an animal, it isn't me that dresses her entirely in pink like a Barbie doll, or a rug which makes them look like a giraffe,it isn't me that sticks tinsel up around the stable door at Christmas so that she can "enjoy" a fake human festival but it is my horse  that is the ONLY one on the yard to be seen anyone at all twice a day and I think that is very sad. Sad for the animals who don't know whether they are coming or going, whether they will get a feed that day, whether they will get some fly protection etc etc,  and sad for the morons who take on the huge responsibility of having an animal and then pick and choose which bit of that responsibility suits them and ignoring the rest.  How many posts are there here every week about people not turning up at all to attend to their animals and another livery having to give them hay and water?  What about all the complaining posts about lack of hoofcare of some horses that people have seen and who should they report it to?  Its no different, just more or less of the same thing.  If you want to turn up at midday at weekends to feed and turn your horse out, that's your choice, but I certainly wouldn't be asking you to care for my horse in my absence, that's for sure.


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## fatpiggy (19 October 2011)

Oh, and the reason my horse "shows her displeasure" is because she is intelligent and bossy like many Welsh cobs.  Like people, horses aren't all thick and easygoing.


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## Mince Pie (19 October 2011)

Well aren't you a charmer...

Just because you are on a crap yard surrounded by crap liveries do not tarnish us all with the same brush.


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## cc14 (19 October 2011)

I am at uni, therefore lectures are at different times every day, so when I get a chance to be there and ride and groom etc varies, however YO does feeds and bringing in/out so that stays consistent mon-fri.

I would not want him to have a strict routine, as it is inevitable that this cannot be stuck to.  In two months he has already has 2 stints of having to be on field rest and it hasnt stressed him out in the slightest, whereas if he had been dependant on a strict routine I am sure it would have.  

I do have a routine in that if I bring him in from the field to be ridden, everything will happen in the same order...bring in, groom, tack up, ride, food, back out.  However when this happens can vary.

I just try to keep a bit of a happy medium


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## martlin (19 October 2011)

I own and run a yard... JFTD, you are welcome to come and live with me any time 
I have a routine, maybe, sort of as in things are done in certain order, but that's about it.
Winter out of necessity brings more organised way of doing things, simply because I have plenty to do and few hours of daylight to do it in, but the horses need to fit around lambing, calving and the fact that I do need SOME sleep.
I have to say none of the horses get stressed at all, yeah, some are less patient then others, but they just have to get over themselves, frankly


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## MagicMelon (19 October 2011)

Mine aren't in a strict routine and never have been, they dont seem to care.  I dont think it matters unless they're stabled.  Mine live out so all I do in the morning and at night is move them about about into different paddocks, give them feed and hay.  Riding-wise, weekdays I ride after work but weekends I ride whenever (ie. I dont ride at the same time every day).


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## cc14 (19 October 2011)

I have just read the "debate" occuring on here...oh wow!

My horse is DIY at the weekends and I currently only go and see him once a day.  He is currently out 24/7, and he does not care in the slightest.  If I cannot make it up there due to work/uni commitments, then so be it, he still does not care.  My education and working so I can afford him are more important than going to see him twice a day just so I look like a perfect owner...he always has food, water, is checked over, has appropriate rugs on etc, and he is an incredibly happy boy!

I think to assume that anyone who goes to see their horse after 10am is awful is incredibly narrow minded.  I have to travel for about half an hour to get to my yard, I also work weekends, and have to find time to study.  If I cannot make it to the yard until 4pm, then so be it.  As long as I am there.  I have people who will check on him and if he needs bringing in then this can be done, same goes for feeding as all horses are fed together.

Everyones situations are different, but one thing that stays the same is that we all do as much as we can to have a happy healthy pony, and that is surely all that matters!


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## mcrobbiena (19 October 2011)

Wowsa this thread has really taken off!! I do like a good debate. Well done to those who do not keep a routine, others may see it as miracle they have survived especially if they are not seen to before 10am, have you not heard that this causes horses to end up sitting in the corner front hooves clutching the sides of their heads rocking back and forth muttering to themselves?? SHAME ON YOU


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## mcrobbiena (19 October 2011)

claudiacox14 said:



			Everyones situations are different, but one thing that stays the same is that we all do as much as we can to have a happy healthy pony, and that is surely all that matters!
		
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You are mistaken, it is what everyone else thinks that is FAR more important. To be seen on the yard first is to be the one with the most respect, knowledge and best cared for animal-FACT

(tee hee hee!)


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## Sarah1 (19 October 2011)

fatpiggy said:



			Actually, if you read my original post properly, I said that my horse likes routine, and if she that is what suites her, then so be it.  It was ME that was then insulted by being told that  because I put my horse's needs before my own, I am treating her like a baby.  As it happens that is doubly insulting to me as I can't have children, not that that is anyone's business but mine.  My horse is an animal and treated appropriately, but with care and consideration because she still has feelings, animal or otherwise.  It isn't me that puts glittery hoof oil on an animal, it isn't me that dresses her entirely in pink like a Barbie doll, or a rug which makes them look like a giraffe,it isn't me that sticks tinsel up around the stable door at Christmas so that she can "enjoy" a fake human festival but it is my horse  that is the ONLY one on the yard to be seen anyone at all twice a day and I think that is very sad. Sad for the animals who don't know whether they are coming or going, whether they will get a feed that day, whether they will get some fly protection etc etc,  and sad for the morons who take on the huge responsibility of having an animal and then pick and choose which bit of that responsibility suits them and ignoring the rest.  How many posts are there here every week about people not turning up at all to attend to their animals and another livery having to give them hay and water?  What about all the complaining posts about lack of hoofcare of some horses that people have seen and who should they report it to?  Its no different, just more or less of the same thing.  If you want to turn up at midday at weekends to feed and turn your horse out, that's your choice, but I certainly wouldn't be asking you to care for my horse in my absence, that's for sure.
		
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1. You said that because it's not acceptable to make a baby wait for it's food it's not acceptable to make a horse wait - that is tosh and, as it has been pointed out, the 2 can not be compared.

2. I hardly think 9am is midday.

3. Who has said they dress their horses up and put on glittery polish etc?

4. Why, just because someone does not always go at exactly the same time EVERY DAY to see to their horse does it mean that it must be neglected?

5. I'm very sorry for you personal situation but we can't exactly be accused of insulting you when we don't know about it can we?  And as you say that's your business not ours anyway.

6. I wouldn't offer to care for your horse, she sounds bloody high maintenance!  And by the same token I would not allow you within a mile of mine.


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## Sarah1 (19 October 2011)

mcrobbiena said:



			Wowsa this thread has really taken off!! I do like a good debate. Well done to those who do not keep a routine, others may see it as miracle they have survived especially if they are not seen to before 10am, have you not heard that this causes horses to end up sitting in the corner front hooves clutching the sides of their heads rocking back and forth muttering to themselves?? SHAME ON YOU


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## Sarah1 (19 October 2011)

mcrobbiena said:



			You are mistaken, it is what everyone else thinks that is FAR more important. To be seen on the yard first is to be the one with the most respect, knowledge and best cared for animal-FACT

(tee hee hee!)
		
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Only if you watch til someone else turns up then rush to get your horse in the school and make it look like you've been at it ages & therefore must be very dedicated and knowledgable and fabulous!


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## Wagtail (19 October 2011)

It is not only horses that benefit from routine, liveries do too. All mine are on part livery and I always inform my liveries of feed times, turnout and bring in times as they find this invaluable to plan their day around. I ended up changing the evening feed to 9.30 pm so that no horses had their feed times disrupted due to owners needing to ride.

I agree that when horses are out 24/7 then routine is less important. However, I do think that feed times shouldremain pretty constant not only because horses like things to be predictable, but for health reasons too. Evenly spaced out hard feed is important IMO.

In terms of turning out and bringing in, I think horses do stress if they are left in whilst others go out or if they are late going out one day for whatever reason. However, they always seem very happy to change their routine and come in early if need be but absolutely HATE it if they come in late.


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## Sarah1 (19 October 2011)

fatpiggy said:



			Oh, and the reason my horse "shows her displeasure" is because she is intelligent and bossy like many Welsh cobs.  Like people, horses aren't all thick and easygoing.
		
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pmsl


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## Amymay (19 October 2011)

claudiacox14 said:



			My horse is DIY at the weekends and I currently only go and see him once a day.  He is currently out 24/7, and he does not care in the slightest.  If I cannot make it up there due to work/uni commitments, then so be it, he still does not care.
		
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Presumably, though, he is looked at at least twice a day - because others check him in your absence??





			I have to travel for about half an hour to get to my yard, I also work weekends, and have to find time to study.
		
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Most of us on here work full time in one way or another (i.e our work / family / life commitments mean that our horses etc. fit in around our other occupations).  This should never be used as an excuse for "I'll get round to doing the horse when I can".  




_I think to assume that anyone who goes to see their horse after 10am is awful is incredibly narrow minded._

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But your horse is not standing in a stable - he's out in the field.  So as long as he's checked am and pm the timing really doesn't matter.  As for narrow mindedness - I think you may have missed the point of what I was trying to say in terms of routine and obligations to our animals.  




			Everyones situations are different, but one thing that stays the same is that we all do as much as we can to have a happy healthy pony, and that is surely all that matters!
		
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Absolutely!


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## Spring Feather (19 October 2011)

Pearlsasinger said:



			I couldn't have put it better myself!

Our horses live at home and their routine is that they hear the sounds of us getting up etc and then go out, in winter.  They hear us come home from work and then come in for their tea etc.  It really doesn't matter what time any of these things happen, so long as they happen in the right order.

I really cannot abide the dogmatic way in which some people insist that their way is the only right way.
		
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This ^^^

My horses are done in the same way every day but not necessarily at exactly the same time every day.  The moment my front door opens everything swings into action, the same as it did the day before and the same as it will the following day.  Most of mine live out 24/7 and any who are stabled have auto-water and enough hay to last them oh probably for 3 days! The stabled ones don't stress if their feed arrives an hour early or an hour late.  Things change on my stud farm as we have to deal with foalings, breedings, competitions etc and not all of those things happen within the parameters of the regular routine of the day.  If a mare decides to foal at feed time then that takes precedence over everything.  If the mare and foal have to stay stabled for a few days afterwards then this is out of her normal "routine" but it's not a big deal for her or us.  People do what they do and for the vast majority of horses they handle it well. 

I'd like to ask what problems horses who live on a very strict routine have when the clocks change?  If they can't handle their owners being 2 minutes late for feeding how on earth do they handle being fed an hour out of sync?

Good thread which made me laugh a lot particularly the poster who mentioned the headcollar antics   Geez if only I had time!


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## Sarah1 (19 October 2011)

Wagtail said:



			It is not only horses that benefit from routine, liveries do too. All mine are on part livery and I always inform my liveries of feed times, turnout and bring in times as they find this invaluable to plan their day around. I ended up changing the evening feed to 9.30 pm so that no horses had their feed times disrupted due to owners needing to ride.

I agree that when horses are out 24/7 then routine is less important. However, I do think that feed times shouldremain pretty constant not only because horses like things to be predictable, but for health reasons too. Evenly spaced out hard feed is important IMO.

In terms of turning out and bringing in, I think horses do stress if they are left in whilst others go out or if they are late going out one day for whatever reason. However, they always seem very happy to change their routine and come in early if need be but absolutely HATE it if they come in late.
		
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Horses for courses I think (pardon the pun!).

What works for 1 doesn't work for them all and as I said in my original post I think it's an interesting question.

Not keen on being accused of being lazy and neglecting my horse tho just because my 'routine' differs from some elses!  Just because it's different doesn't mean it's wrong does it?!


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## LaurenBay (19 October 2011)

Wow, took me a long time to read through all the replys. 

IMO, if you want to put your Horses in a strict routine then you are asking for trouble. My Horse is not in a routine, she goes out from 6-7 am and comes in between 6-8pm. I have yet to see her waiting at the gate for me or kicking down the stable door. On weekends I do have a lay in, not because I am lazy, but because I work bloody hard all week and I deserve to have a lay in atleast once a week. She will get more hay on the friday evening to last her extra and then I will be up between 9-10 am. She really isn't bothered and I doubt she is standing there thinking if she's going to get fed/turnout/ridden. She has hay water and company which keeps her happy. I hardly think this is neglecting her  If you want to do your Horse early then that is completly and utterly up to you,which I respect. However  calling us lazy and implying that we do not care about our Horses is completly out of order.

I would also never put her in a strict routine as you can never predict the future. For example: on Friday I will be bringing her in at 12.30 were she will then be sedated and injected with steriods. She will then go into her stable and sleep it off. I know she will be absolutly calm because she is used to coming in at different times. Wereas a Horse that "needs" routine will be completly stressed in this situation. I can also bring her in at any time for farrier/dentist/pysio etc and she will remain calm. 

I couldn't have an animal that dictated my life. At the end of the day, yes my Horse is a huge responsibility but she has to fit in around my life.


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## Amymay (19 October 2011)

I couldn't have an animal that dictated my life. At the end of the day, yes my Horse is a huge responsibility but she has to fit in around my life.
		
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You see, I don't think you can have that philosophy when you own an animal - especially one as time consuming as a horse.............

It certainly is interesting the amount of differing views that this post has prompted.


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## LaurenBay (19 October 2011)

Agree with you AmyMay, she does take up a lot of my time. But I would still not get up at the crack of dawn because she could be kicking the door. She gets fed/turnout when I get up there, simple as. I certainly wouldn't lay in til gone mid day. But I do like a lay in once a week. But she doesn't go without and hasn't yet called/kicked door/collicked because I've been 1 or 2 hours late (Touches wood )

It is very interesting, but if we were all the same, the world be be a boring place!


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## Sarah1 (19 October 2011)

amymay said:



			You see, I don't think you can have that philosophy when you own an animal - especially one as time consuming as a horse.............

It certainly is interesting the amount of differing views that this post has prompted.
		
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I know exactly where you're coming from AmyMay tho we have different views on this particular subject and to a certain extent I think you're right but in general I have to admit I feel the same as LaurenBay.  

I could not stand it if my whole life had to revolve around a horse for fear of it being upset or stressed - they are a huge commitment as we're all aware and I sacrifice a lot including holidays, new clothes, new cars and even seeing my only child grow up to a certain extent.  I know I am not alone, most people make huge sacrifices for their passion for horses.

I'm willing to do all of this because I love my horse and wouldnt be without him and want to give him the best life I can BUT I will not allow him to dictate every waking second of my life.  It doesn't mean he's neglected in any way shape or form.

I love the fact that he's so easy going and in all honesty I couldn't cope with something stressy or uptight and I doubt I'd find much fun in horse ownership at all if that was the case.

Personally, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a horse to wait in the stable or field for a couple of hours extra (as long as we're not talking being left in all day etc) as long as they have adequate food, water, company and protection from the elements if necessary.


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## Amymay (19 October 2011)

LaurenBay said:



			Agree with you AmyMay, she does take up a lot of my time. But I would still not get up at the crack of dawn because she could be kicking the door. She gets fed/turnout when I get up there, simple as. I certainly wouldn't lay in til gone mid day. But I do like a lay in once a week. But she doesn't go without and hasn't yet called/kicked door/collicked because I've been 1 or 2 hours late (Touches wood )

It is very interesting, but if we were all the same, the world be be a boring place!
		
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Yes, I think essentially we're comming from the same place - but whereas I start getting twitchy at 4.30 in the afternoon about getting the horse in (winter, not summer obvo), and potentially being late, you would be more relaxed about it. Which is a much more stress free way to live


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## Amymay (19 October 2011)

Sarah1 said:



			I know exactly where you're coming from AmyMay tho we have different views on this particular subject and to a certain extent I think you're right but in general I have to admit I feel the same as LaurenBay.  

I could not stand it if my whole life had to revolve around a horse for fear of it being upset or stressed - they are a huge commitment as we're all aware and I sacrifice a lot including holidays, new clothes, new cars and even seeing my only child grow up to a certain extent.  I know I am not alone, most people make huge sacrifices for their passion for horses.

I'm willing to do all of this because I love my horse and wouldnt be without him and want to give him the best life I can BUT I will not allow him to dictate every waking second of my life.  It doesn't mean he's neglected in any way shape or form.

I love the fact that he's so easy going and in all honesty I couldn't cope with something stressy or uptight and I doubt I'd find much fun in horse ownership at all if that was the case.

Personally, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a horse to wait in the stable or field for a couple of hours extra (as long as we're not talking being left in all day etc) as long as they have adequate food, water, company and protection from the elements if necessary.
		
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And I think all of the above is entirely reasonable.  Maybe I need to take a chill pill


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## Sarah1 (19 October 2011)

amymay said:



			And I think all of the above is entirely reasonable.  Maybe I need to take a chill pill 

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That really tickled me!  I don't think you need to resort to drugs!!!!!  Maybe we'll agree to disagree?!


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## Amymay (19 October 2011)

Sarah1 said:



			That really tickled me!  I don't think you need to resort to drugs!!!!!  Maybe we'll agree to disagree?! 

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Seems entirely reasonable to me.


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## indie999 (19 October 2011)

I think its very important when bringing a youngster on as horses learn by repetition. ie tie up pick feet up front first, then hinds etc etc I know mine knows the drill!


However with the old boy I can get into the same old routine to fit in with my work but sometimes I do change it deliberately ie when he is expecting to get me to move the electric fence for another few inches of grass I dont like the expectation or assumption as he will pace up and down(so I dont like this behaviour although completely my fault).   Also with hacking I tried to go a varied route especially if it meant coming back past a spot on a hack where he may have played up going the other way! It did help.

They should do what you want and not vice versa anyway with or without a routine. At the end of the day as long as they are happy to come to you and it works well for an easy life.


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## mcrobbiena (19 October 2011)

I would not want to train a young horse to pick up feet in a certain order. My 4 month old foal will pick up any foot I ask her to, wether I start from a back one or a front one left or right. She does try to predict where i will go next though bless her! But what if they had a leg stuck in a fence? You have to pick up all her other feet until you get round to it?!


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## JFTDWS (19 October 2011)

indie999 said:



			I think its very important when bringing a youngster on as horses learn by repetition. ie tie up pick feet up front first, then hinds etc etc I know mine knows the drill!
		
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Completely disagree with the theory behind this - I expect all mine (inc yearling) to respond to the same question in the same way regardless of the situation - i.e. I can equally catch him, tie him up, pick up fronts then back or I can walk up to him in the field and ask him to pick up a hind - and he will do it without fuss.  He understands the question - i.e. please pick up this leg - rather than knowing that after doing x, y and z I want his foot.  This is extremely useful if you need to deviate from your usual routine for any reason (e.g. in an emergency).


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## JFTDWS (19 October 2011)

fatpiggy said:



			Actually, if you read my original post properly, I said that my horse likes routine, and if she that is what suites her, then so be it.  It was ME that was then insulted by being told that  because I put my horse's needs before my own, I am treating her like a baby.  As it happens that is doubly insulting to me as I can't have children, not that that is anyone's business but mine.  My horse is an animal and treated appropriately, but with care and consideration because she still has feelings, animal or otherwise.  It isn't me that puts glittery hoof oil on an animal, it isn't me that dresses her entirely in pink like a Barbie doll, or a rug which makes them look like a giraffe,it isn't me that sticks tinsel up around the stable door at Christmas so that she can "enjoy" a fake human festival but it is my horse  that is the ONLY one on the yard to be seen anyone at all twice a day and I think that is very sad. Sad for the animals who don't know whether they are coming or going, whether they will get a feed that day, whether they will get some fly protection etc etc,  and sad for the morons who take on the huge responsibility of having an animal and then pick and choose which bit of that responsibility suits them and ignoring the rest.  How many posts are there here every week about people not turning up at all to attend to their animals and another livery having to give them hay and water?  What about all the complaining posts about lack of hoofcare of some horses that people have seen and who should they report it to?  Its no different, just more or less of the same thing.  If you want to turn up at midday at weekends to feed and turn your horse out, that's your choice, but I certainly wouldn't be asking you to care for my horse in my absence, that's for sure.
		
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It's very difficult to debate with people who have difficulty grasping basic concepts, but...

I think you will find that I did not suggest you treat your horse like a baby - I stated that there were flaws in the logic behind your statement that you don't understand why there are double standards for humans and horses.  I have no idea how you treat your horse and I couldn't really care less.

I also don't think it is relevant for you to proclaim that you can't have children.  You're not alone in that by a long shot - we were in no position to know that about you, as you are not in a position to know the situation of other posters.  Whilst you have my sympathy on some levels, I can't stand people who believe others should walk on egg shells around them because of things in their *private *lives which are bugger all to do with the rest of us.

Your ramblings about treating ponies like barbie dolls are also largely irrelevant.  It's not a crime and it's not significant in answering the question at hand.

Furthermore, you leap from a routine deviation of a couple of hours to "coming up at midday" or even leaving horses for days on end without care or appropriate treatment.  That's not logical.  I could lower myself to your level and proclaim that I pity your horse for only being seen to twice a day.  I am not alone in preferring to check mine more regularly than that, but actually I wouldn't criticise people for being up less frequently as I'm not convinced it's essential - it's just how I choose to keep my animals.  

You also bypass all the important questions I (and others) raised - most significantly, is not deviating from the morning turnout time more important than ensuring the overall time spent in the stable / unattended is unchanged or indeed kept to a minimum?  

Whilst Amymay's views differ from my own on this matter, I find her contributions to this thread interesting as they outline her beliefs and understanding of the relevant issues without condemning others who have opposing views or judging situations which she doesn't have the relevant information to judge.  My point in saying that is simply that I am not getting at you because you believe routine is important - I'm trying to make you understand that you are looking at the world with blinkers on.


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## cc14 (21 October 2011)

Amymay - Chill pill adviseable! YM lives on site and can see him from near enough every room in the house, fields are all located so all horses can be seen clearly the second you enter the yard and there are 10 other horses in his field, so effectivly he is probably being checked on way too many times throughout the day!  
Have to agree with the other poster who said that horse has to fit in with my life, I do not revolve my life around my horse.  Horses are a huge responsibility but should also be fun, and tbh my idea of fun is not getting itchy as soon as the clock hits a certain hour because I need to be at the yard asap.  I am not making excuses for anything, he is just as well looked after as any other horse, it just so happens that my lifestyle means a dead set routine is not possible, so he fits in with that very happily


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## fatpiggy (21 October 2011)

JFTD, why do you keep thinking I am aiming my replies at you personally?  You attacked me for babying my horse (in your opinion) from the outset despite the fact that my original message was to the OP who was asking a perfectly valid question. I can't see anything in that message that was rude, argumentative or slagging any one off - it was actually written quite tongue in cheek hence my final comment that my horse has other habits and routines entirely of her own.  Then you take pot shots at me and wonder why I got rather mad.  I would entirely agree that a horse that is out 24/7 is far less in need of routine- they can feed and water themselves at their leisure. I am talking about stabled horses who having eaten everything and pooed in their water (or whatever), are entirely at the mercy of their minder, and hence shouldn't be left unchecked for excessively long periods eg. not coming up until lunchtime when the horse went into its stable at 5pm the night before.  I have no choice but to feed my horse at the same times every day because she has to have medication in it which MUST be given at similar times and intervals to be effective.  So she doesn't dictate to me, the veterinary profession does, but because it is my responsibility to care for her the best I can, I have to abide by it or live with the consequences.  I have spent my entire horsey life watching SOME other people treating their horse not much better than a piece of rubbish and ok, that has probably made me rather touchy about standards of horsecare because I can't stand cruelty and neglect (like many other posters on here) but I won't apologise for caring.  I am quite happy to accept that many people might think I do too much for my horse but again, that is their opinion and my choice.  As long as horses or any other pet for that matter are happy and healthy there are lots of ways of getting to the same destination.  What really gets my goat is people like the woman who has 3 with mine - until someone called the welfare recently, she was quite happy to leave them completely unattended for days at a time with 6 months hoof growth meaning a 9 year old pony could barely walk.  On the occasion that she suddenly thinks they might get laminitis she shuts them up in their stables for 2 or 3 weeks at a time, with no exercise at all and doesn't change the water for several days at a time. Or the chap who left a fully clipped horse out in a November night time storm with no rug and no shelter because he couldn't be bothered. He couldn't be bothered to have the farrier much either and left the shoes on for 20+ weeks at a time.  As I said before, my horse is the only one of 16 to be seen and checked over twice a day. In no way is that boasting because I firmly believe that twice a day is the minimum. I think it is sad that others think otherwise.  I just can't understand why people who only live a few minutes away can't just come and cast an eye over what is, lets face it, an expensive purchase if nothing else.


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## JFTDWS (21 October 2011)

Last time before I bash my head of a brick wall...

I responded to a post in which you quoted something I had said - it's fair to assume that it was aimed at me since you quoted me, and since myself and Sarah1 were the main posters at that point saying that routine isn't the be all and end all of horsecare.  Your original post may have been aimed at the OP, but on an open forum, we're all welcome to jump in and disagree with whoever we please.  I'm not taking pot shots at you, but I am criticising some the more sweeping, generalising statements you have made.  There is a subtle difference there.

Furthermore, whilst I stated that my horses live out 24/7 now, I also mentioned that on previous yards I had kept a similar lack of routine (or rather, not stuck to specific feed times etc) whilst they were stabled.  But that's irrelevant - my point is that I don't believe routine in the sense that it has been interpreted previously in this thread (i.e. rigid feeding / turnout / bring in times etc) is important...

With respect, the cases you describe are not a lack of routine, or adherence to a flexible routine (as myself and other posters have described) but are cases of neglect.  Nobody on here is saying it's ok to leave a horse without farriery for 6 months - we're saying it's ok to feed it an hour or two later on the weekend, assuming you've given it a bit extra hay so it's not starving.  Nobody is accusing you of caring too much, but in your previous post you stated that your mare (not her medication) dictates her routine or she reacts negatively.  If you're happy with that, it's fine, but I personally wouldn't allow my life to be dictated by a horse who gets in a strop if I'm half an hour late.  Not that it's a problem I've ever had.  But this is again, irrelevant to the OP, other than to illustrate that different horses and different management regimes will mean that routine is more important to some horses than others.

It's all very well to believe that routine is important, but to rationalise that statement with hyperbole about neglected animals as the alternative isn't constructive - and THAT is the side of your posts that I disagree with - if you see the distinction?


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## teamsarazara (21 October 2011)

Our horses are on a livery/riding school/schooling yard. ALL stabled horses are fed at same time every morning, everynight. Turned out horses are a bit different as some get fed and some dont, horses are mucked out at same time everyday, but get ridden and groomed whenever but they are in a pretty strict routine.


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## Foxhunter49 (21 October 2011)

Mine get fed and mucked out first thing, they are worked in the morning (generally speaking) 
They get turned out after work and brought in at around the same time but evening feed and skipping out,  I like to do about 9 - 10p.m. but it is nothing for me to fall asleep on the sofa and wake up after midnight and go do them!
Makes mucking out in the morning a lot easier!

If they object then I have never yet received an e mail complaining!


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