# What is it about border collies?



## PolarSkye (19 August 2011)

. . . that people don't like?

As I said in the like/dislike dog thread, I recognize that they are very much "marmite" dogs - people tend to have strong opinions either way.

Having two collie crosses, I can see some drawbacks - one of ours is utterly neurotic, they can be quite territorial, they need keeping "busy" - particularly in the brain department, their in-built herding instinct can make them unsociable out and about if not managed/handled properly from very young.  

But I can also see huge benefits - they are unbelievably loyal (Fred in particular is my shadow and follows me all over the house - he even lies outside the bathroom door when I'm having a bath, whip smart, (mostly) eager to please and learn, fast and agile, a great alarm system.

So what is it about collies?  

P

P.S.  I promise to try and not be defensive about the replies - I really am just curious


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## Cop-Pop (19 August 2011)

I like them - I'd never own one tho.  I'm always wary of meeting colies and collie types on walks as quite a lot of them round here seem to be aggressive towards other dogs.


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## PolarSkye (19 August 2011)

Cop-Pop said:



			I like them - I'd never own one tho.  I'm always wary of meeting colies and collie types on walks as quite a lot of them round here seem to be aggressive towards other dogs.
		
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Yup - Fred can be iffy with other dogs - particularly if he is on the lead - it's why I'm quite careful where I walk him and I always keep on eye on who's around dog-wise.  

I think other dogs don't take too kindly to collie's stalking behaviour either and that can cause problems - I'm quite strict with Fred about not doing that - the second he starts stalking I make him heel and then sit, keeping his attention on me rather than the object of his stalking.  

That said, a good friend has a staffie/vischla (sp?) cross who is HORRIBLE with other dogs when on the lead - so it may not just be a collie thing.

P


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## Cop-Pop (19 August 2011)

Being aggressive with other dogs def isnt just a collie thing - it just seems round here theres an awful lot of them!  I guess being out in teh country people buy them as they think theyre a 'country' dog   Personally I like my dogs stoopid


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## NeverSayNever (19 August 2011)

i currently have 5    I can see why they are not for everybody though. You get the odd one that is particularly chilled and easy going for the breed, we have one have one of those, he's a house dog, he's impeccable in every way really! He also spends most of his time sleeping in the sun! He's a pleasure to take places and has one of the most reliable temperaments Ive ever seen in a dog.

The others? Hmmm   Well I love them  However they are all quirky in their own ways. They are in a routine and live in kennels, only my older bitch would possibly suit being in the house but even then, she is 10 in Feb and would still create havoc if left for any length of time. I have to admit, they are a lot of work to get the stage mine are at now. I find them easy now as they are in a routine and trained - but I have a young dog of 7 months who Im putting hours and hours into, she is the most quirky and highly strung we have ever had, eek, she is the archetypical border collie that Is imagine most people would hate;she is going to be an awesome worker though


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## NOISYGIRL (19 August 2011)

PolarSkye said:



			Yup - Fred can be iffy with other dogs - particularly if he is on the lead - it's why I'm quite careful where I walk him and I always keep on eye on who's around dog-wise.  

I think other dogs don't take too kindly to collie's stalking behaviour either and that can cause problems - I'm quite strict with Fred about not doing that - the second he starts stalking I make him heel and then sit, keeping his attention on me rather than the object of his stalking.  

That said, a good friend has a staffie/vischla (sp?) cross who is HORRIBLE with other dogs when on the lead - so it may not just be a collie thing.

P
		
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My ESS stalks when walking towards other dogs on or off lead, maybe she's part collie lol


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## BigRed (19 August 2011)

They are meant for working, and the vast majority of people who own them, have onlt ever seen them on TV and think they are really clever and really easy to train.  So they buy one and plonk them in their back gardens and don't train them and don't walk them, so they end up with a sly, sneaky, neurotic, tyre biting nut case.

It is very rare that I meet one that I like.  It's not the fault of the breed, more of the circumstances that most of them find themselves in.


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## Bettyboo222 (19 August 2011)

LOVE THEM LOVE THEM 

Work have 4 working dogs who I adore hearding with and one Bitch that they breed from, in fact I was at a farm at the weekend looking at some pups that have been bred for herding, unfortunatly I haven't got the time


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## Naryafluffy (19 August 2011)

I think it's that so many people get collies probably not realising how much work they are and then you have collies that are literally bouncing off the walls.
People on here who have collies all seem to know that they require a lot of mental stimulation and even then not guaranteed to not be a bit neurotic.
Think too many people try and keep them as house dogs when they're really not a dog that would be happy lounging about a house.

My friend has a collie and he is one of the few that are really chilled out, however we're still working on the dog being a bit reactive to horses, keep bringing him round mine who doesn't really care about dogs to try and de-sensitise him to them.
I like collies but wouldn't have the time for one.
Aggression on the lead or is it frustration?
I have a English Pointer x Japanese Chin and she really is an aggressive little toad, however her father was like that and I'm sure it's an inherited temperament (the mating was an accident, not planned as you really wouldn't want the dog to father anything, but god forbid they get it neutered)


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## sam-b (19 August 2011)

Absolutely love my 5 month oldborder collie, though still struggling with house training, any ideas?


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## Dutch1horse (19 August 2011)

I think people are intimidated at dogs that are smarter than them


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## Dobiegirl (19 August 2011)

Lovely dogs but not really suitable for the average numpty as too much dog.

They need lots of exercise physical as well as mental and the average owner isnt prepared/capable to give them this.

Most working/farm dogs never leave the farm so has no socialisation hence not good with strangers or other dogs.

These dogs are bred for the job herding sheep and give them a job such as flyball/agility and obedience and they excel after all they are the most intelligent of all dogs.


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## Taffyhorse (19 August 2011)

I love mine - he's 4 but they are definitely a bit 'speshul'!! 

Mines amazingly obedient 99% percent of the time and fairly well trained - however we have just started going to basic dog training to socialise him more as he gets very 'fixated' on strange dogs and you just can't get his attention - you could wave a freshly grilled sausage under his nose and he still wouldn't blink or even look at it! On the lead he can be a pain with other dogs - and the dog trainer at our class has advised some 1:1 sessions to help with this - particularly after he disrupted the entire class by staring out several of the other dogs! 

BUT he is amazingly loving, very affectionate, easy to train if you can get past his quirks and as long as he has plenty of exercise and stimulation, he's fine. If he doesn't then he's a nightmare! 

It makes me really cross when people take on dogs but do no research about the breed and their requirements - this goes for all dogs not just collies, they buy them cos they look 'pretty' or whatever and then end up giving it away a few months later or the dog ends up with a fairly miserable life - not outright cruelty as such but no walking, no training, no interaction etc etc etc, anyway that's probably a whole new thread!!!


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## lexiedhb (19 August 2011)

I would not choose to have one, and atm they annoy me as they are usually chasing after a ball- which annoys my dog- I know this is not the collies fault- I also do not like my dog and I being "rounded up" on walks LOL


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## Sprout (19 August 2011)

I have one now, and have had two in the past, all lovely, but all very different.

They do need a lot of mental stimulation, as well as plenty of exercise, to keep them sane, and some of the behavioural issues can come down to breeding lines too.

One of my previous Collies was frightened of men and traffic, needed to round up everything she saw from people, to animals to flying housemartins, and she was never settled in the house no matter how much exercise she had, always wanting to be outside, running ....

The Collie I have now is the most wonderful dog I have ever had, she is socialable with people, but terrified of other dogs thanks to the terriers opposite who attack her at every opportunity. She is calm in the house, a pleasure to take out anywhere ..... I could go on and on, she really is wonderful.

So often, behaviour is a reflection of training and life style, but character traits such as rounding up in Collies, quartering the ground with Spaniels and guarding with others is what they were bred to do.


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## blackcob (19 August 2011)

As others have said, I've met too many that don't have a job to do and end up being neurotic, snappy and reactive.

I admire them hugely, a well trained collie is a thing of wonder, I am regularly left flabbergasted by the ability of my trainer's two. However, I once asked her if they were like that all the time, did they chill out in the house? Nope, not one bit, if asked to go to their bed they'd lie there quivering, waiting for the next command. It would drive me bonkers. 

I prefer my dogs pointy eared, pointy snouted and a bit fick.


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## CorvusCorax (19 August 2011)

Too high energy, too sensitive and too neurotic for me and been on the wrong end of too many farm dogs, but I do admire people who work them and can get the best out of them.
Had a few lectures from collie people on my choice of 'jewellery' but that's a people thing, not a dog thing


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## Alec Swan (19 August 2011)

Dutch1horse said:



			I think people are intimidated at dogs that are smarter than them 

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That isn't always the case,  but I'd agree, that all so often right,  you'd be right. Those who use them for their intended purpose,  and I'm one of them,  will tell you that the trick is to recognise the direction in which the dog is _trying_ to travel.

First there is a need to understand the dog,  and then actually _recognise_ what he's trying to achieve.  It isn't easy,  and I sometimes get it wrong,  but a natural instinct needs _steering_,  rather than being _disciplined._ 

Alec.


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## prosefullstop (19 August 2011)

My aunt and uncle have a Collie, now eleven, which they rescued when the dog was two. He's fantastic with people--though he can be nippy--and he's iffy with other dogs. At his age he's still energetic, needs loads of exercise and training, but isn't that much more work than my eight-year-old Boston terrier (currently thrashing her bird toy around and hitting me with it ).


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## lula (19 August 2011)

PolarSkye said:



			. . .

But I can also see huge benefits - they are unbelievably loyal (Fred in particular is my shadow and follows me all over the house - he even lies outside the bathroom door when I'm having a bath, whip smart, (mostly) eager to please and learn, fast and agile, a great alarm system.

So what is it about collies?
		
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my sable and white border collie is ^^ this^^ exactly.
i have heard collies can be a bit funny around other dogs. mine can be but not sure if this b/c of is a previous bad experience or a breed trait.

she's utterly ball/retrieving obsessed too which ive heard is a collie trait.


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## Fazzie (19 August 2011)

I LOVE Border Collies, I have a blue merle and he is the most loyal and protective dog I have ever had, I will only have collies from now on, he is my first collie. 
He really means everything to me . I was even late for own my wedding when he was ill !(he has an auto immune condition) 
He is my shadow and comes everywhere with me, he is fab with other dogs/the horses but he does tend to 'herd' the cats  :/
Honestly I have been through some tough times and I dont know what I would do without him. I will never be abe to find another dog to even come close to him (not that I would ever want to) He's in my siggie


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## PucciNPoni (19 August 2011)

CaveCanem said:



			Too high energy, too sensitive and too neurotic for me and been on the wrong end of too many farm dogs,
		
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This!

No offense, but on the whole most of the ones I've seen are just a bit too sharp for my liking.  Terriers can be sharp, but will usually be told.  I find collies if they get their back up about something, they refuse to give in.  I've sent a few home ungroomed because you couldn't get near them, and they can be very menacing with their teeth.  Prefer to avoid that if possible. 

Next door neighbor has farm dogs - and aside from the fact that they've never seen a brush or bath in all their lives which offends the groomer in me  I get seriously irritated by the fact that these two INSIST on crapping directly outside my door!


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## Fazzie (19 August 2011)

Dutch1horse said:



			I think people are intimidated at dogs that are smarter than them 

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Agreed


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## NeverSayNever (19 August 2011)

PucciNPoni said:



			This!

No offense, but on the whole most of the ones I've seen are just a bit too sharp for my liking.  Terriers can be sharp, but will usually be told.  I find collies if they get their back up about something, they refuse to give in.  I've sent a few home ungroomed because you couldn't get near them, and they can be very menacing with their teeth.  Prefer to avoid that if possible.
		
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ooh see i like 'sharp' but to me it doesnt mean they cant take a telling, mine darn well do as they are told, there isnt anything I cant do with them. To me it means reacting a lightening speed, being highly driven and not too soft - quite a hard dog, Im still the boss though  Although I can imagine my older bitch in certain types of homes would never have been groomed or had her nails cut in her life, lol, she puts up and shuts up with me around though


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## NikkiF (19 August 2011)

Absolutely love watching well trained collies doing their 'job', be it herding, agility, flyball or dancing  Wouldn't get one myself as don't think would be good enough to train correctly.

Having said that, several near neighbours have collies and we sometimes walk the dogs together - mine (staffy/lab) is constantly following rabbit trails and sometimes disappears off into the undergrowth for minutes at a time, giving me heart failure, while the collies are constantly watching their owners and staying reasonably close!


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## cbmcts (19 August 2011)

I love to see a BC working, they are unique with their level of concentration and speed of reaction IMO.

As the average house dog - no, not my cup of tea I'm afraid. I love my terriers but any more focused than that is too much for me 

But the failings are all mine - I just don't have the patience required to deal with such a sensitive, full on breed.


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## cyberhorse (19 August 2011)

I love them. I currently have one curled up in her bed in the kitchen with my cat. She is loyal, highly intelligent, very observant of the rules of the house (and a major grass) and has a huge vocabulary. She likes to play but does not need a huge amount of exercise, she prefers mental challenges. I can give her a sentence with 3-4 commands in it and she will carry it out in the order the words were given. She knows her toys and items by name. She walks to heel unless sent away, recalls immediately 100%, and understands directional pointing when on a walk. Rounds my ducks up at night and my cats when they hide under the furniture at worming time.

She does not bark unless she feels she needs to draw my attention to something important - she will bark once if someone knocks on the door and I have not reacted by the time they knock the second time or if a cat is stealing or is somewhere it should not be (especially the kitchen worktops!). Otherwise she only ever barks on command. She will sing to the phone but only if I am in the garden so I can hear it, never when I am in the house.

She has never shown any aggression to any animal or person and trust me my Faverolles (chickens) have been known to really ask for it. She breaks up cat fights by physically blocking them getting at each other and ends up getting bashed by 2 rather annoyed cats. I really have not known a more caring and patient dog. And she also wipes her feet on the doormat so what more could you want?!

I honestly believe that collies are fantastic dogs if properly trained and mental occupied. if you treat them like a 3-4 yr old child and set a high standard and give them "jobs" they respond fantastically. Sadly my dog was a Christmas puppy who we found at a rescue in November as she was "untrainable" TBH we found her really easy. I really would be lost without her as she is my constant companion and my greatest role model/tutor with my other animals including foster and rescue cases who need behavioral help.


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## Sherbert (19 August 2011)

Wow cyberhorse, your collie sounds fantastic. We have a 3 year old and he's certainly not neurotic, stressed or aggressive. I also find that he doesn't need that much phsyical excercise but mentally he is always switched on and ready to play if you are. We've just started agility training and the speed he's picked it up is phenomenal. 

The only downside is he is rather aloof (except when playing) and not one to be fussed or cuddled.


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## PolarSkye (19 August 2011)

Naryafluffy said:



			Aggression on the lead or is it frustration?
		
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You know you're probably right - it IS more frustration - or in Fred's case insecurity (he was beaten up by another dog we had - within an inch of his life).

P


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## PolarSkye (19 August 2011)

Taffyhorse said:



			he gets very 'fixated' on strange dogs and you just can't get his attention - you could wave a freshly grilled sausage under his nose and he still wouldn't blink or even look at it! On the lead he can be a pain with other dogs - and the dog trainer at our class has advised some 1:1 sessions to help with this - particularly after he disrupted the entire class by staring out several of the other dogs!
		
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Oh this is Fred - he definitely gives other dogs the "collie eye" . . . Daisy wouldn't know how but I suspect that's the Springer in her - she really has the best of both breeds.  Fred is part Jack Russell so can be a jumped-up little so-and-so, which combined with his neurotic collie side needs watching and careful management.

P


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## PolarSkye (19 August 2011)

Alec Swan said:



			Those who use them for their intended purpose,  and I'm one of them,  will tell you that the trick is to recognise the direction in which the dog is _trying_ to travel.

First there is a need to understand the dog,  and then actually _recognise_ what he's trying to achieve.  It isn't easy,  and I sometimes get it wrong,  but a natural instinct needs _steering_,  rather than being _disciplined._ 

Alec.
		
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This really struck a chord with me . . . it chimes with something I read on horsemanship (I think it was Mark Rashid) about "rewarding the try" . . . it's the same sort of idea . . . and if I analyze what I do with Fred it's exactly this.  I'm always after my OH to reward the "try" (particularly with Daisy who isn't quite as "sharp" as Fred) much more quickly and then channel it.

Thanks for this Alec.

P


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## PolarSkye (19 August 2011)

blackcob said:



			if asked to go to their bed they'd lie there quivering, waiting for the next command. It would drive me bonkers. 

I prefer my dogs pointy eared, pointy snouted and a bit fick. 

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Oh that would drive me bonkers too . . . but having read it I realize that Fred generally has one eye on me all the time - waiting to see what I will do next (so that he can follow me or obey the next command - poor boy).  He is lying on the sofa watching me now - something he does alot.

And, I like your description of dogs you prefer . . . I wouldn't say I prefer dogs like that to the two I've got, but they do sound appealing .

P


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## littlen (19 August 2011)

I have always had gsds, but accidentally acquired a year old rescue bc x gsd who was being PTs at work.

He is my first collie and I have found him incredibly difficult to deal with compared to my shepherds although I don't know if it's his past or genetic!
A few traits he has include being obsessive about things such as light and balls to the point of fixation, being quite protective and being wary of strangers. He is also quite skittish and will jump at things my shepherd wouldn't look twice at.
On the other hand he is fab with children and other dogs and is so so affectionate and obedient so hopefully we can work through the bad bits!!
Oh, and he eats everything.including poo!!


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## PolarSkye (19 August 2011)

littlen - it's hard to say for sure, but I'd say alot of what you're seeing in your bc/gsd rescue is "collie-ness" . . . they are very sensitive souls, particularly to rapid movement (which makes sense considering they're bred to have lightning quick reflexes and be extremely sensitive to movement).  Alot of collies are skittish - I do wonder if that's just a manifestation of their naturally quick reflexes - not unlike a sharp TB!  

I have heard it said that collies are generally "one owner" dogs - they will get along well with everyone in the household but have one, definitely preferred person as "theirs."  This is certainly true of both of ours . . . they definitely take their cue from me and prefer to be with me if given a choice.  Fred, in particular, looks to me for reassurance when he's worried and almost asks me to "control" him when he's got that urge to bark at the neighbours or patrol the fence line.  

P


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## EAST KENT (19 August 2011)

Great dogs,used to breed agility/obedience ones in various colours but not black and white.My first one was a good worker,obsessive actually. One night a portion of a white flock of ladies got in with our blacks and LLewellyn the Welsh Black ram,he was delighted and quite a lot had black lambs months later! Whilst they were mixed in with my lot Mirk spent her time splitting white from black ,and then rejoining them again.My red male,also a worker,was adept at getting the horse in,he would outrun,circle until the horse got annoyed and then light out for home with horse in pursuit. Another one Moss ,was a great guard,and one of her chosen possessions was the mare and foal,she would lie by the fieldgate watching and woe betide anyone but me who went near them!


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## lizness (19 August 2011)

Would have one but only as a working dog. I like them but they are obbsessive whereas my pet spaniel is crazy and energetic but not so obbsessed. I only really have dealt with working bred and working ones though. I like the fact that when i walk spaniel he keeps himself busy whereas when I take spaniel and collie out collie wants to be doing sopmething. If I try and take my OH's collie out for a run he sees that there is no sheep and turn round! They also seem one people dogs which is important when working.


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## Ravenwood (19 August 2011)

I am a virgin border collie owner!    Rosie is 18 months now but I have to say she is an absolute star    Her training has been gundog training   ie she is whistle trained for recall and stop, she is definitely a one person dog and stays by my side at all times.  She is working bred and I have only used her twice on sheep so far but she certainly proved her worth and I am looking forward to using her more regularly.

Bizarrely though she shows no interest whatsoever in playing with a ball!   I have tried numerous times, on her own and with the others, rolling or throwing a ball for her - she runs after it full pelt, looks at it when its landed, looks at me to say "there it is" and runs off to find something else interesting!  LOL!

She has fitted right in with this family although is top dog the only problem I have is that she is very aggressive with other dogs     If we are out walking and I see a dog in the distance, I have to call her back and put her on the lead otherwise she is out to kill them     If she sees another dog before I do, then she stops stock still and looks back at me     However we are very lucky that this is a very rare occurrence 

After judging the dog show last week I have been given the number of the local sheep dog trials club who are desperately looking for new members (apparently) so I am going to give them a ring - working is definitely going to be her forte


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## lula (19 August 2011)

cyberhorse said:



			if you treat them like a 3-4 yr old child and set a high standard and give them "jobs" they respond fantastically
		
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cyberhorse, can you suggest some of the kind of jobs or tasks that you mention that i could perhaps try with my own collie? 
she's uber smart and im trying to think of things for her to do to keep her mentally stimulated!


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## PucciNPoni (20 August 2011)

NeverSayNever said:



			ooh see i like 'sharp' but to me it doesnt mean they cant take a telling, mine darn well do as they are told, there isnt anything I cant do with them. To me it means reacting a lightening speed, being highly driven and not too soft - quite a hard dog, Im still the boss though  Although I can imagine my older bitch in certain types of homes would never have been groomed or had her nails cut in her life, lol, she puts up and shuts up with me around though

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Again, this sort of goes along with the theory that they're one-person dogs.  Put a stranger in to the mix (ie vet/groomer) and you  might have trouble.  The ones that are not so suspicious are lovely.

I once met a pair of collie x poodles - what a nightmare they were!  One tried to bite me as it came in to my shop!  It was fine once the owner left (more or less) but it was far too many brain cells fizzing.   I made sure I had the owner's mobile number programmed in to speed dial as she left in case I had to call her back to collect the dog un-started.  I did manage to groom it, but it wasn't sure about it.... I like a clever dog - which is why I have a poodle!   But I'm not sure I like grooming strange collies.  

A very good friend had rehomed a border years ago.  She was obsessive compulsive to the point that she could have just come in from a couple hours of walking and chasing a ball and then you come back home, sit down and fix a cuppa and all she'd do for hours during a visit is constantly insist that it was still play time and bring you a ball.  The dog had been previously kept in a small garden owned by a family with two small children and they didn't really cope well together, understandably.  My friend on the other hand, despite living in a flat, had this dog out for hours daily.  She could never really satisfy the dog's need for constant stimulation.  I used to see zillions of BCs living in flats in Edinburgh...I just don't understand it.

And yet I love seeing them work or doing agility or whatever.  I just am too lazy to own one!


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## soloabe (20 August 2011)

I should think its a good thing the breed are not well liked.


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## PucciNPoni (20 August 2011)

katielou said:



			I should think its a good thing the breed are not well liked.
		
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Well that's the thing - they do tend to be well liked by too many of the wrong sort of potential owner!

I agree with all the posters above me who've said that to see one working and doing is a thing of beauty.  But lots of people get them cos they're easy on the eye never realising that it can be hard work to keep them happy/sane in modern urban/suburban family life.  THOSE tend to be the one's that I see in my salon, sadly.


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## whisp&willow (20 August 2011)

i like border collies...:  in a field/up the hill with a shepherd, doing what it was designed to do-  herd sheep and help man do his job.

i would never have one as a pet.  i think they are best suited to working homes.  i find then neurotic and hard-wired to the moon!!

yes they are loyal-  but ive found it to be to a point where it is detremental to their wellbeing!  

beautiful dogs, superbly bred to function as a herder.... in my oppinion not pets. 

they are WAY too intense for my liking.  i dont like being stared at and herded! (neither does Betty... she HATES collies with a passion for this reason!)


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## Mince Pie (20 August 2011)

I don't have a Border Collie, I have a Welsh Sheepdog. They have a different way of working to the BC's, and, due to the terrain they work over and the distances they cover, have a LOT more energy!




			These Welsh dogs work in a totally different way to the Border - their tails up, ears down - and have none of their inhibiting characteristics. They are free agents by comparison, with no eye - in fact, they are referred to as 'loose-eyed' dogs. One thing I like about them is that when you have got sheep into the yards, they go about their own business, whereas the Border Collie will be eyeing the sheep under a gate or through a fence, unable to switch off because of their overpowering natural instincts.

When the Welsh dogs are under pressure to move their sheep, they bark, and are at their happiest when they are working large flocks of sheep. They have a tremendous amount of energy, and work well in hot weather. Many Borders, especially if they have a thick coat, do not stick heat too well.
		
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 Taken from the Welsh Sheepdog Society website.

My boy is relatively quiet in the house, although does get a bit wound up with the noises of the chickens under the 'house' (I live in a static caravan/mobile home) as we had a rat problem when I first moved in. He will stand for hours where he thinks they are (almost like a 'point') unless I call him away. 
Outside he is great with other people, dogs, chickens, geese, etc and will not chase. The only thing he will chase is cats but that is because there aren't any round here for me to de-sensitise him to. He will not stop for hours, if I am up the yard all day he will run round like a nutter all day! I did run him at agility for a year but it unfortunately just blew his brains and I had to pull him out, although I am still allowed to run him over the kit when the club are not there as they are based at the farm where I live.
I would definitely have another as he is a joy to be around, besides after having him a BC may be slightly easier!!


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## PucciNPoni (20 August 2011)

broke_but_happy said:



			I don't have a Border Collie, I have a Welsh Sheepdog. They have a different way of working to the BC's, and, due to the terrain they work over and the distances they cover, have a LOT more energy!

 Taken from the Welsh Sheepdog Society website.

My boy is relatively quiet in the house, although does get a bit wound up with the noises of the chickens under the 'house' (I live in a static caravan/mobile home) as we had a rat problem when I first moved in. He will stand for hours where he thinks they are (almost like a 'point') unless I call him away. 
Outside he is great with other people, dogs, chickens, geese, etc and will not chase. The only thing he will chase is cats but that is because there aren't any round here for me to de-sensitise him to. He will not stop for hours, if I am up the yard all day he will run round like a nutter all day! I did run him at agility for a year but it unfortunately just blew his brains and I had to pull him out, although I am still allowed to run him over the kit when the club are not there as they are based at the farm where I live.
I would definitely have another as he is a joy to be around, besides after having him a BC may be slightly easier!!
		
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Interesting about the Welsh Sheep dogs - I've never heard of them before.  And the part I find interesting is that on the society's web page, they state that the numbers are in decline, and yet the society's stance is that they should only go in to working homes:

"Their will to work is in-bred and they need an active life-style. The Society wishes to restrict the sale of registered puppies to working stock farms only."

How would they restrict such sales?  I wonder if society members also adhere to this?

Sorry, gone off topic a bit....


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## JadeyyAndLadyy (20 August 2011)

I love collies! And i plan on getting my own hopefully end of this year or next year. But, im always wary of the collies we get in at work (kennels) as one collie has bitten my leg and 'herds' me round the kennel, another collie was aggressive and unpredictable-one minute he loves cuddles and fuss, the next minute he will go for you. And a collie cross went for me numerous times, actually bit me on one occassion and wouldnt let me out of the kennel unless someone was outside to distract him. I never went near that dog again.

Other than that, every other collie ive met has been lovely and i adore them


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## ladyt25 (20 August 2011)

Have not read all the threads on this but I will say that when I was younger I always wanted a border collie, I thought they were fantastic dogs, so intelligent and energetic. However, i have changed my opinion. I still think they're great dogs when with the right owner BUT the dogs i trust the least are border collies and the only dogs I have ever been bitten/threatened to be bitten by have been border collies.

I appreciate they can be very one man dogs etc but i think they can be a little deceiving with the whole submissive, wagging look and then the lunge/bite! I don't 100% trust them as can find them hard to read sometimes.


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## Annette4 (20 August 2011)

I like them but I'd never EVER have one because I couldn't given them the mental and physical stimulation they need and deserve. It would not be fair on the dog at all and I'd never put an animal through that.


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## Horseyscot (20 August 2011)

We have a working collie on the farm, she is a lovely dog. She is so affectionate and adores the kids. Although never put to the test, I think she would protect her own. She watches the kids all the time, and almost seems to come and 'tell' me if she thinks they are doing something which is dangerous! She is wary of other dogs coming onto the farm, although doesn't just rush straight in for a fight. We got a kitten at Christmas, OH said it wouldn't last 5 mins with the dogs, especially the collie.... the cat is boss and plays about bopping the dogs on the nose, its like they all know she is 'family'. Both our bitches parents were quite aggressive and known to bite, but I do believe it how you'bring them up'. Flo is shut up at night, but all day can run around as she pleases, and can often be found fast asleep on the leather chair in the kitchen Being on the farm, we always have had a collie, but never had a 'bad' one. I think lots of breeds get a bad name when the problem is really the owners and the dogs not being kept in the proper environment for the breed and meeting their needs. We've also always had Spaniels, never had a loopy one yet (daft, yes... ), as again they get to run loose all day, and never shut up to pent up their energy, we always have them as house dogs, they like to be near their people.

I love collies, truly a loyal breed


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## ABC (20 August 2011)

This thread has made for an interesting read as me and my boyfriend were considering getting a border collie. 

We really would love a high-energy dog as our current rescue, a cavvie, likes nothing better than lying in bed but me and my boyfriend are quite active people, so really our lifestyle doesn't suit him (don't get me wrong, I wouldn't change him for the world) so we were thinking of getting a BC.

How much mental/physical stimulation do they need?

My Cavvie goes on a walk in the morning, then to my parents house during the day (they play with him in the garden etc) and then another walk at night, whereas we'd love a dog who could spend hours on end outdoors and enjoy it. Boyfriend is into hiking too so more excercise 

I would love a collie but its not something I'd go into lightly 

Personally I think like all dogs if they are well socialised then they are lovely dogs, but sometimes due to their boisterous nature they're not socialised which enhances the problem

I'm probably talking nonsense  any advice appreciated


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## Mince Pie (20 August 2011)

PucciNPony - Honestly I can see why! The first year I had him I was tearing my hair out and seriously considered putting him in a rescue. It took a LOT of hard work, tears, headaches etc before I got him into some sort of routine. It doesn't help that my vet thinks he has ADHD as he has the concentration span of a gnat! He turned 4 this year and now I wouldn't be without him but he is still a lot of work, the only dog that has come close to him is my friends Malinois.


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## CorvusCorax (20 August 2011)

This is a good link that has been posted here before by Goya
Border Collies



You know what breed I'm going to recommend


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## lula (21 August 2011)

my bc is retrieval obessed compleltely. she has to have something in her mouth on walks. a tennis balls is her favorite thing in the world (and i swear she can smell balls, she'll find one with her nose buried in a hedge 100 yrds away) but if not a stick will do or a twig or in desperate cirmstances a blade of grass as long as its SOMETHING.

our walks go like this,

enters bridleway, darcy rushes off to find stick/twig or similar if we havent brought ball with us. proudly drops it at my feet and looks at me expectantly as we proceed to walk down track, i bend and throw it, she brings it back drops it, i kick it a few feet, she pounces on it with gusto and trots off down the track. 50 feet in front of me she'll suddenly stop, turn and trot back drop it at my feet again. i kick it, she pounces, trots off for another 50 feet , stops, turns round and brings it back, drops it at my feet..picks it up..bounces off for 50ft..stops....turns round..brings it back...drops it..pounces...yadda

our daily walks of miles will proceed in exactly this way every single time.
she'll mug complete strangers on park benches to throw her ball for her. i sometimes think her body would have to die of exhaustion before she didnt want to bring that ball back anymore.

Ive been told this obsessiveness is a collie trait. i do love her to death tho sometimes i wish she wasnt so permanently 'switched on' behind in the eyes!


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## Renvers (21 August 2011)

lula said:



			my bc is retrieval obessed compleltely. she has to have something in her mouth on walks. a tennis balls is her favorite thing in the world (and i swear she can smell balls, she'll find one with her nose buried in a hedge 100 yrds away) but if not a stick will do or a twig or in desperate cirmstances a blade of grass as long as its SOMETHING.

our walks go like this,

she'll mug complete strangers on park benches to throw her ball for her. i sometimes think her body would have to die of exhaustion before she didnt want to bring that ball back anymore.
		
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This ^^^ is my collie bitch. We have made a game to keep her mentally occupied, I tell her to 'find' a stick that i have thrown in undergrowth , in fact if another dog loses their ball, we send mine to find it. We now play it at home with items hidden about the house. Mine works and walks for hours a day, I have even taken her mountain walking and she arrived at the bottom as fresh as when she started.

She is turning into a great flyball dog, I was at the British Champs this weekend and the speed and grace of the dogs in the highest divisions (all collies) is amazing.

It is very true about the loyalty, even though my bitch is sociable with people, and with most dogs (apart from youngsters who jump about as they soon get told off) she is definitely my dog and follows me everywhere. We have found that if I am at home and someone approaches the house she will bark, if I am out but John is in she wont. 

It is interesting what people have said about them being house pets - around here we say that about labs. Without exception all the collies I know work in some capacity, or due to the amount of exercise have made their owners far more active (or been bought for that purpose).


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## lula (21 August 2011)

Renvers said:



			She is turning into a great flyball dog, I was at the British Champs this weekend and the speed and grace of the dogs in the highest divisions (all collies) is amazing.
		
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OMG, i didnt know what flyball was when i read your post and have just watched a video on you tube, i would LOVE to try that. Im going to have to look into classes in my area, looks like collie heaven!


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## Renvers (21 August 2011)

lula said:



			OMG, i didnt know what flyball was when i read your post and have just watched a video on you tube, i would LOVE to try that. Im going to have to look into classes in my area, looks like collie heaven!
		
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Do try it - it is great fun for you both. Have a look here for teams/classes near you http://www.flyball.org.uk/ In a way it does as Alec Swan suggested earlier in the thread, it plays to the breeds strengths so they pick it up really well. 

The club I train with even has a session where puppies can come and just play fetch and retrieve (no jumps or boxes at a young age) which gets them out and focussed on a task. 

Having said that we have Great Danes in one of our teams too - but took time and a lot of hard work to get to collie standard tho!


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## Slinkyunicorn (21 August 2011)

I am another one who would never have a collie I live on a farma dn the the old sheepdog lived in his kennel in the corner of my garden and was like my 3rd dog when the farmer/YO wasn't around. He was one of the most sociable collies I have met - useful when on a livery yard with up to 20 diffenrent dogs coming and going - and was my dogs best 'friend'  When not worknig he would come on walks with us across the fields etc and was the best guard dog on the farm but he was a working dog

My friends collies are pets but both she and her OH walk them and take them running with them as well as doing agility and flyball with them - both are as chilled out as collies get but are always on 'alert'  Her old collies used to come out on rides with us as well - he made it to 17

The collie that belongs to one of the liveries is a nightmare he constantly barks from the minute he is let out of the car until she puts him back in to go home (she appears to be oblivious) - particularly annoying at 6.30 in the morning - and he also constantly rounds up the horses luckikly he doesn't go into my horses field - yet - as he will find half a tonne of WB on his head - she says he walks him but clearly not enough and she was talking about agility/flyball but the arrival of a new boyfriend has put a hold on all that so the rest of us have to put up with her barking neurotic pain in the ass collie Sadly the dog and owners like her give collies a bad name


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## lula (21 August 2011)

slinkyunicorn said:



			Sadly the dog and owners like her give collies a bad name

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actually id say the dog and owner like her give _dogs_ a bad name. Ive seen lots of dogs that behave exactly like that whatever their breed. 

you cant blame the fact this dog barks a lot on it being a collie.


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## Ranyhyn (21 August 2011)

I think its not so much the breed doing itself a disservice, but people buying them who don't understand the first bit about the dog they have.

I think it takes a special type of owner to own a collie well - and sadly those good owners are too few and far between.  Thus making people wary of the dog - when really all we need to be wary of are stupid owners, who could make a hash out of a bloody labrador if they wanted


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## ABC (21 August 2011)

CC - thanks for the link, I'll have a proper read tomorrow.
Slightly off topic (well very off topic  ) but are GSD's active dogs?


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## CorvusCorax (21 August 2011)

They certainly are! Don't believe all the slopey-backed cripple tosh 
Not that I am trying to sway you, or anything


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## irishdraft (21 August 2011)

I like BCs having previously owned a dog and bitch who worked sheep and cattle, when they passed on we bought a brother and sister, big mistake. They have been horrendous hard work and we live on a small holding so they are out all day plus have 2 walks aday, my husband decided he didnt want to work them so they are mainly pets, I have tried agility with both of them, individually, the bitch wasnt interested and is terrible with other dogs, despite us socialising and training for months, the dog was quite good but got so excited barking and biting the whole time I had to give up with him. They are better now out and about but I still have to be careful with the bitch if other dogs are around, the dog is fine so really its all about the individual dog but theres no doubt collies are difficult dogs but having said that I think having siblings made it a whole lot worse as we never got that initial bonding with them.


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## Britestar (22 August 2011)

Love mine, and he's my 4th.

Obsessive, annoying and never fully asleep I swear. You think he is out for the count, only have to move an inch and he's there going 'toy,toy,toy,toy'. Wouldn't change him for the world.

Lucky I live on a farm, and he has all the exercise he could ever want. He has also been very well socialised - very important with collies, and he loves everyone and thinks everyone should love him too (in the nicest way).

Last one was completely different, never chased a toy in his life, and could occasionally give someone 'the eye', but was a lovely natured dog too. His mum was a working type and she could give the odd nip if she felt threatened (someone bopped her on the head as a puppy when she ran over to say hello, and she never forgot it).

Wouldn't ever consider another breed TBH. I must be the only person in the world who doesn't like Labs!


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## Missadelaide (22 August 2011)

I have had 2 collies and adore them. My first collie sadly died last year due to a tumour, but she was the sweetest and most loyal dog I have ever met, she would do anything to protect her own but she was wary of strangers. She was a red collie and came from working stock.

My other collie is 2 years old and he is a very traditional black and white longhaired collie. He loves anybody and everybody, is fantastic with children and extremely obedient. Ball obsessed and a fantastic agility dog. He is alot more hyper than the female collie I had, but I put this down to him being male and a bit bigger than she was.

I am in a fortunate position that we have our own land and my collie gets walked, does dog agility and gets to roam around all day. Both my collies are/were very loyal and never go off our land, but they like to mull around after a quick nap following a walk!

I would never have another breed and I believe there are no problem collies, just problem owners.


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## Luci07 (22 August 2011)

Missadelaide said:



			I would never have another breed and I believe there are no problem collies, just problem owners.
		
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Just nice to see someone else having to defend their breed (I have staffies)

Personally... I like them. Am biased as I have a friend with a stunning collie. Collie is a bit particularly about her doggy friends but invested a long time in worming her way into my staffie boys affections (took her about 3 weeks to coax him to play with her) - she did shadow him (interesting after what you guys were saying) but never ever any sign of dominance or jumping on him. He tried to ignore her but in the end gave in and they truly are the best of friends. Just have to be careful when I go to my friends yard (she has her own) as when the 2 of them get together they go bananas! She also has an elderly collie x lab who in very grouchy but he is an old boy so he and my older staffie bitch wander around together turning up their noses at the idiocy of the youngsters!


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## ladyearl (22 August 2011)

I just lost my lovely BC a couple of weeks ago and she was a fantastic dog. Came to me from a farm at age 18 months. We lived in a city first then moved to the country and latterly lived in a more urban town. She was very loyal, very friendly with people and other dogs (but only if she thought I thought they were ok), she was very smart and enjoyed training (as did I). I found that if I incorporated lots of commands into her walks she came home more tired than just walking. I think the key to her being a nice pleasant dog was firstly her own personality but also I made sure she had routine, stimulation and that I mainly dealt with her myself or someone who I trusted understood how sensitive she could be. Her vet was fantastic with her and she did get on well with him, but he's a collie owner too!   

Now for some gratuitous photos! 

Here with two friends






Here chilling out with one of the cats. she was always climbing up onto things






Here playing with a toy on a beach


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## Sags_Deer (22 August 2011)

I love them, like you say if you put the correct training in they are fab and also if you dont a quirky one. I have had mine since a pup like yours he follows me everywhere so loyal and in his old age growls at people who get near me with hats on at work when he is in the office with me.
I also have a young lab who i do adore but everyone is her friend whereas my collie is into me a lot more where she couldnt give a ****!!


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## Dobiegirl (22 August 2011)

Ladyearl she looked a lovely dog and was obviously as devoted to you as you were to her.


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## littlen (22 August 2011)

Just wondering, how exactly do I use my collies brain? How do everyone keep theirs entertained if like me you don't live on a farm (do go twice a day to the yard though)


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## Oenoke (22 August 2011)

I love them!!!  I have 4, 1 can be a bit sharp, but the other 3 are lovely friendly dogs to all people and other dogs, 2 have been registered P.A.T. dogs.  I compete at agility and flyball with them and they have plenty of mental and physical exercise.


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## Ravenwood (23 August 2011)

littlen said:



			Just wondering, how exactly do I use my collies brain? How do everyone keep theirs entertained if like me you don't live on a farm (do go twice a day to the yard though)
		
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I don't own the farm I live on, I am just a neighbour as such but its all inclusive if you understand.  I do however have a partner who does farm and that is where I have worked my collie - but only twice so far.

To me ( and understand here I am not experienced with collies) but routine is the key to keeping my collie stimulated.  I walk all the dogs twice a day, before and after work for between an hour or half an hour but we are lucky in that we do have open moorland to exercise them on so they can run to their hearts content.  

All the dogs know their routine and get extremely excited first thing in the morning and when I get home from work - once I have walked and fed them, they settle down for the evening and I don't hear a peep from them.

I have to admit that I haven't done the brain stimulation over exercise thing - ie I haven't taught my collie the name of objects, she is not ball or toy possessed and she knows only the basic simple, everyday commands but she is not stressed or neurotic and generally a well rounded dog    Except of course if we meet a strange dog when she is out to kill it  fortunately for us this is a rare occurrence


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## Millyard Rejects (23 August 2011)

Dutch1horse said:



			I think people are intimidated at dogs that are smarter than them 

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People read the breed description that says Collies are intelligent....but forget they arent intelligent enough to own a Coliie!



Oenoke said:



			I love them!!!  I have 4, 1 can be a bit sharp, but the other 3 are lovely friendly dogs to all people and other dogs, 2 have been registered P.A.T. dogs.  I compete at agility and flyball with them and they have plenty of mental and physical exercise.
		
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My eldest collie was a working dog for years,he "retrained" as a P.A.T dog.
He grew up around my sisters children and my extended family. Gets on great with cats,other dogs,horses,goats,cows,pigs and even ostriches  he only has issues with sheep ie he got beaten up by a sheep which nearly killed him and he wont go near them now for love nor tennis balls! 
My younger collie is kind and gentle-not the smartest he is a year old and he never got the hang of retrieving things 
Exercise has to be structured-they need mental and physical workout both at same time if possible!!


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## ladyearl (23 August 2011)

Dobiegirl said:



			Ladyearl she looked a lovely dog and was obviously as devoted to you as you were to her.
		
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Thank you very much I am biase of course but she was and so was I. Sadly missed (


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## ladyearl (23 August 2011)

littlen said:



			Just wondering, how exactly do I use my collies brain? How do everyone keep theirs entertained if like me you don't live on a farm (do go twice a day to the yard though)
		
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I think they need a job, or at least to think they have one. Mine enjoyed training on walks. Lots of walk to heel, sit and wait catch up with me, finding things etc. Go to a basic class and you will get some ideas. Even at the yard I would ask her to sit in certain places. She had to wait at the gate while I got horse in from the field. She would sit like a stone and was delighted at the praise she got when we both returned. She had to walk to heel while I was leading the horse. Basically I didn't just leave her to make her own entertainment i tried to make her feel she was "working" while we were just doing ordinary things. 

nb: Mine also worked as a PAT dog and that was definitely a job for her. She would spend 90mins in an old folks home and come home emotionally exhausted. She knew it was work 'cos she wore a uniform.


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## sam-b (24 August 2011)

My darling collie ate my kitchen floor last week, my other half is laying a new one as I type!!


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