# Feed balancer advice



## HelenBack (2 October 2015)

What lite balancers does everybody use and recommend? My Connemara is currently on Lo Cal but I think it seems a bit over-priced for what it is and the specification doesnt seem to match up to other products. I tried the Spillers Lite and he seemed quite happy on that but unfortunately he turned out to be allergic to one of the ingredients in it so we had to stop that. TopSpec Lite just made him very silly and spooky!

Im currently looking at the Blue Chip native but dont know anybody whos fed it to know what their experiences have been. Id also need to check the ingredients because of the allergy info but hopefully Blue Chip will help with that.
So does anybody have any experience of the Native or feed any other similar balancer that they would recommend? I also wouldnt be averse to going down the route of a really good vitamin supplement doing a fibre and oil based diet if anybody can recommend me one of those. Theres too much choice available nowadays to know where to begin!


----------



## fatponee (2 October 2015)

My welshie is doing really well on NAF 5* Optimum, which is a concentrated balancer.  It doesn't have any alfalfa or molasses in it and my pony is blooming.  Would recommend although I don't know how it compares to other balancers.


----------



## Sealine (2 October 2015)

I feed Dengie Alfa-A and Dengie Leisure vitamins and minerals supplement.  My horse does very well on this diet and we do a bit of everything including hunting.  You could use Hi-fi instead of Alfa-A if you don't need the energy/calories. I like to keep feed simple and as I ride early in the mornings I can ride after he's eaten his breakfast.   Dengie have a feed advice line if you need help on which feed and vitamins to use.


----------



## WelshD (2 October 2015)

I have fed Blue Chip Native but my ponies got the most horrendous thrush shortly after starting on it. Not sure if it was purely coincidence but they haven't had such smelly feet either before or after using it

I'm now feeding TopSpec balancer, have used the lite one with success and its a good price but they are on the original at the moment. One of my ponies reacts very badly to lots of feeds (gets itchy) but TopSpec has been fine


----------



## Pearlsasinger (2 October 2015)

After several problems with horses being allergic to various ingredients, I now only ever feed single ingredients.  TBH most horses do not require a balancer unless they are actually deficient in something, which can only be found by a blood test.  Try giving your horse any high fibre feed, linseed/oil and a handful of salt.


----------



## BORODIN (2 October 2015)

for horses that have allergies - have a look at st hippolyt equigard - its grain and molasses free and has worked wonders for a few friends I know whose horses have come out in allsorts of lumps and bumps 
the people that import it are h and f feeds and are extremely helpful


----------



## southerncomfort (3 October 2015)

Personally I use Lo Cal all year round and really rate it for my welshies.

If you're having problems with balancers you could try something like Equimmins Advance Complete.  It is seriously good stuff and helped my mare recover after a nasty virus.


----------



## tallyho! (3 October 2015)

HelenBack said:



			What &#8220;lite&#8221; balancers does everybody use and recommend? My Connemara is currently on Lo Cal but I think it seems a bit over-priced for what it is and the specification doesn&#8217;t seem to match up to other products. I tried the Spillers Lite and he seemed quite happy on that but unfortunately he turned out to be allergic to one of the ingredients in it so we had to stop that. TopSpec Lite just made him very silly and spooky!

I&#8217;m currently looking at the Blue Chip native but don&#8217;t know anybody who&#8217;s fed it to know what their experiences have been. I&#8217;d also need to check the ingredients because of the allergy info but hopefully Blue Chip will help with that.
So does anybody have any experience of the Native or feed any other similar balancer that they would recommend? I also wouldn&#8217;t be averse to going down the route of a really good vitamin supplement doing a fibre and oil based diet if anybody can recommend me one of those. There&#8217;s too much choice available nowadays to know where to begin!
		
Click to expand...

I think that vit supplement would be best.

Lots of people are turning away from "balancers" now as many have realised them for the con they really are. Thank goodness... it's not a conincidence the rise of laminitis was a perfect correlation to balancer sales.

Great for performance horses who actually used up the energy (as in 4hr sweating yer arse off work a day) but totally flippin disastrous for those who sweated up just farting in the field turning over to wipe the suds off the other side..

Most pleasure horses, except unicorns, do well on grass tbh. Sprinkle a bit of vitnamins on and you've got the basics covered.


----------



## mirabela123 (5 October 2015)

tallyho! said:



			I think that vit supplement would be best.

Lots of people are turning away from "balancers" now as many have realised them for the con they really are. Thank goodness... it's not a conincidence the rise of laminitis was a perfect correlation to balancer sales.

Great for performance horses who actually used up the energy (as in 4hr sweating yer arse off work a day) but totally flippin disastrous for those who sweated up just farting in the field turning over to wipe the suds off the other side..





Most pleasure horses, except unicorns, do well on grass tbh. Sprinkle a bit of vitnamins on and you've got the basics covered.
		
Click to expand...

Agreed ,, good advice, I will try it


----------



## supsup (5 October 2015)

tallyho! said:



			I think that vit supplement would be best.

Lots of people are turning away from "balancers" now as many have realised them for the con they really are. Thank goodness... it's not a conincidence the rise of laminitis was a perfect correlation to balancer sales.

Great for performance horses who actually used up the energy (as in 4hr sweating yer arse off work a day) but totally flippin disastrous for those who sweated up just farting in the field turning over to wipe the suds off the other side..

Most pleasure horses, except unicorns, do well on grass tbh. Sprinkle a bit of vitnamins on and you've got the basics covered.
		
Click to expand...

I have to disagree there. That prevalence of laminitis goes together with balancers is a pretty strong statement without any evidence. Most typical balancers have low energy content (just slightly higher than quality hay, around 10MJ/kg) and fed at the recommended rate makes up only a small fraction of the daily calorie intake. In fact, the energy level in e.g. Spillers Original balancer is the same as in the plain alfalfa pellets I use as a carrier for my "bare bones" vit&min supplement. Sugar and starch levels are usually also very reasonable.
If people fed balancers as they are meant to be used - balancer only (no other bucket feed) and forage at the correct level to meet the horse's energy needs - then I don't see how they'd be doing any harm. In fact, I think they are a great idea. IMO, the problem is that people like to see more in the bucket and feed chaff and mixes on top of the balancer to an already overweight horse that is getting too much forage (in the form of unrestricted grazing).

I will agree that many products are a bit of a rip-off when you look at actual levels of vits, mins and amino acids included - often quite low - and the price. It is also undoubtedly true that some horses will react adversely to an ingredient in a commercial mixed feed. But it's a bit over the top to say balancers as a category are rubbish. A balancer is nothing more than a vitamin, mineral and amino acid supplement in a convenient pelleted form. 
Read the labels and don't generalize, would be my advice.


----------



## Jericho (5 October 2015)

I use topspec lami for a fat connie and spellers original balancer for 16.1hh Irish hacker both out 24/7. They get the balancer and a handful of Thunderbrooks healthy herbal chaff and that's it.  I feed a bucket feed because I like the interaction and ensuring they do have all their vits and mins particularly the fat connie on restricted grazing and I like a balancer because it's a small amount of food nutrient dense but they feel like they are getting something. Both don't like chaff with a powdered supplement. As to what balancer is best I don't really know but those tow work well for my horses and they both look imo great.


----------



## tallyho! (5 October 2015)

supsup said:



			I have to disagree there. That prevalence of laminitis goes together with balancers is a pretty strong statement without any evidence. Most typical balancers have low energy content (just slightly higher than quality hay, around 10MJ/kg) and fed at the recommended rate makes up only a small fraction of the daily calorie intake. In fact, the energy level in e.g. Spillers Original balancer is the same as in the plain alfalfa pellets I use as a carrier for my "bare bones" vit&min supplement. Sugar and starch levels are usually also very reasonable.
If people fed balancers as they are meant to be used - balancer only (no other bucket feed) and forage at the correct level to meet the horse's energy needs - then I don't see how they'd be doing any harm. In fact, I think they are a great idea. IMO, the problem is that people like to see more in the bucket and feed chaff and mixes on top of the balancer to an already overweight horse that is getting too much forage (in the form of unrestricted grazing).

I will agree that many products are a bit of a rip-off when you look at actual levels of vits, mins and amino acids included - often quite low - and the price. It is also undoubtedly true that some horses will react adversely to an ingredient in a commercial mixed feed. But it's a bit over the top to say balancers as a category are rubbish. A balancer is nothing more than a vitamin, mineral and amino acid supplement in a convenient pelleted form. 
Read the labels and don't generalize, would be my advice.
		
Click to expand...

Aha! Yes you too are bought in to the sales material... I can see you read well.

And you have also agreed with me a bit without even realising. People cannot stand to see a few pellets in a bucket and fill it then add the pellets on top throwing the whole thing out of balance. Doh! Then you read the ingredients... plenty of grain products and by-products which have been shown to contribute if not cause laminitis. Many horses are intolerant and if they are not working this excess sugar off, they are storing it.

If you keep looking at the ingredients, you realise you can get the individual things you need for way cheaper!


----------



## supsup (6 October 2015)

No, I haven't bought into the sales pitch, hook line and sinker. But I think your statement was very sweeping and not actually based on fact. You didn't state that too much sugar and starch contribute to laminitis (which I wouldn't dispute for a moment), you said balancers do. Yet, "balancers" as a class can contain all sorts of things as "fillers", some high in sugar/starch, some not. Some don't contain any. I would class the forageplus supplements for example as a "balancer" also - vits, mins and amino acids, meant to "balance" what's available from forage. So I disagree with that sweeping statement.

I think it's great that more horse owners really dig into equine nutrition and learn more, read more labels and think more critically. But at the same time, I think some people lose the bigger perspective and get too hung up on individual ingredients, minerals etc. For most horses (without a true intolerance) the small amounts of sugar/starch/cereal byproducts in a balancer aren't a problem. If the horse is on the brink of laminitis, it is much more likely that other issues (e.g. EMS/PPID, being very overweight from being overfed grass and/or other feed) are the underlying cause, and the balancer (if it contributes at all) is the last straw that broke the camel's back, rather than the main cause.

I for one think it is a step forward if owners of leisure horses step away from the mixes (with truly astonishing sugar/starch levels) and swap their bucket feed for a balancer, and control grass access for a good condition score. Then we can argue about which balancer (with/without fillers, with certain mineral ratios etc.) would be the most suitable.


----------



## Leo Walker (6 October 2015)

I'd also love to know how I can buy all the ingredient in a balancer cheaper on their own! I've been there done that and it is definitely more expensive. It was worth it for me at one point as I had a tricky horse to manage and wanted to micro manage everything. I still gave up in the end and got Equivita to custom blend me one, as it worked out far cheaper to have them do it than I ever could have!


----------



## tallyho! (6 October 2015)

supsup, can you give me a list of balancers that do not contain fillers?

can you prove that it is JUST sugar and starch that cause laminitis?

I think your definition of a balancer does not match mine so therefore we are not comparing apples with apples.


----------



## tallyho! (6 October 2015)

FrankieCob said:



			I'd also love to know how I can buy all the ingredient in a balancer cheaper on their own! I've been there done that and it is definitely more expensive. It was worth it for me at one point as I had a tricky horse to manage and wanted to micro manage everything. I still gave up in the end and got Equivita to custom blend me one, as it worked out far cheaper to have them do it than I ever could have!
		
Click to expand...

First, you find out what you are indeed balancing... then you reverse engineer the process and you end up with what you actually need. 

Purchase that.


----------



## Leo Walker (6 October 2015)

I did. I couldnt test the hay as the supplier was variable, but I used a website that shows you what the mineral levels are in your grazing. I used that as a basis and tweaked it based on how my horses looked and felt. Even buying 25kg sacks of some stuff, not a chance could I have done it for the price Equivita does. They absolutely dont use fillers as they will literally put in just what you request. I was warned that the mix might not be stable or might clump as they'd never made it before, but it was fine


----------



## tallyho! (6 October 2015)

FrankieCob said:



			I did. I couldnt test the hay as the supplier was variable, but I used a website that shows you what the mineral levels are in your grazing. I used that as a basis and tweaked it based on how my horses looked and felt. Even buying 25kg sacks of some stuff, not a chance could I have done it for the price Equivita does. They absolutely dont use fillers as they will literally put in just what you request. I was warned that the mix might not be stable or might clump as they'd never made it before, but it was fine 

Click to expand...

Yes I have heard of them as at the time I was also looking at forageplus and someone else who does bespoke. I guess it will differ from horse to horse depending on needs as some minerals are more expensive than others and quality and isotopes will also vary greatly and you want the highest bioavailabilty so I understand why it could be expensive. Also makes it very complicated.


----------



## Leo Walker (6 October 2015)

It does! The complicated horse has now been gifted to his loaner who adores him and I just have my very easy little cob. He thrives on border line neglect and I'm happy to just feed him a broad spec no iron balancer/supplement. He probably doesnt need it, but as hes on a very restricted diet it makes me feel better that hes getting it


----------



## tallyho! (6 October 2015)

FrankieCob said:



			It does! The complicated horse has now been gifted to his loaner who adores him and I just have my very easy little cob. He thrives on border line neglect and I'm happy to just feed him a broad spec no iron balancer/supplement. He probably doesnt need it, but as hes on a very restricted diet it makes me feel better that hes getting it 

Click to expand...

This made me laugh... I have one that thrives on neglect too. It's great isn't it


----------

