# Simple Systems Horse Feed - Please Be Careful



## vanrim (3 July 2015)

I believe Simple Systems feed caused severe gastric ulcers in 3 horses on my yard for the following reasons. I have 5 horses - 3 were on the feed 2 were not. The 3 horses on the feed all got gastric ulcers at exactly the same time. The other 2 are completely unaffected. Also the mare was treated with Gastro Guard for a month while still on the feed (I had not put 2 and 2 together at that stage) and when rescoped she still had grade iv ulcers. When she was retreated with a month Gastro Guard and not on the feed she rescoped clear. Two of the 3 horses are so bad they cannot be ridden 4 months after the ulcers were treated. The specialist at Leahurst now thinks the ulcers have caused nerve damage. They are 4 and 6 years old and may never be ridden again. I have come across so many people that have had serious problems with this feed - I just wish someone had warned me.


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## flaxen tail (6 July 2015)

Ive never fed it but why would this happen,  I understand its alfalfa which is widely fed ie Dengie do alfalfa feeds . Why cant the horses ever be ridden, sounds awful, but maybe any damage will repair in time ,I really hope so maybe someone on here will have had similar and ended up with a good outcome .


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## NOISYGIRL (23 July 2015)

What has simple systems said about it? Seems very strange for an alfalfa based product to cause this


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## vanrim (23 July 2015)

Yes lots of companies do alfalfa but now ask yourself how many of these big companies do soaked alfalfa nuts which is what made the horses ill.


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## MiJodsR2BlinkinTite (24 July 2015)

This thread has come up before I believe??? Dunno why its up again.............. (goes away, scratching head in bafflement).........


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## PoppyAnderson (25 July 2015)

Why are you posting this again? You've already made your point.


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## vanrim (25 July 2015)

I am not posting again. Original post was 3rd July. You don't have to read it if you don't want.


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## vanrim (25 July 2015)

Simple Systems have said in an email to me that the soaked Lucie Nuts could ferment and become acidic depending on soaking conditions and temperature.





NOISYGIRL said:



			What has simple systems said about it? Seems very strange for an alfalfa based product to cause this
		
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## flaxen tail (25 July 2015)

Oh maybe thats what happened but I wonder if this could happen with any feed that is soaked perhaps in warm temperatures ,I dont know if its just specific to alfalfa or not but I do hope horses are going to be ok ulcers are a nightmare.


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## PoppyAnderson (25 July 2015)

vanrim said:



			I am not posting again. Original post was 3rd July. You don't have to read it if you don't want.
		
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Of course you're posting again. Give it a rest.


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## Leo Walker (25 July 2015)

PoppyAnderson said:



			Of course you're posting again. Give it a rest.
		
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She really wasnt, someone commented ages after her first post with a question, and she replied. I'm not sure shes right in what shes saying, but she thinks she is and feels strongly enough to post, so shes perfectly entitled to reply to a question on her post! Not sure why your being so hostile?


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## Buddy'sMum (27 July 2015)

vanrim said:



			Yes lots of companies do alfalfa but now ask yourself how many of these big companies do soaked alfalfa nuts which is what made the horses ill.
		
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AFAIK all of the feed companies who sell alfalfa pellets in the UK (SS, Dengie and Emerald Green Feeds) recommend that the pellets are soaked if being fed in bulk to horses.


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## Buddy'sMum (27 July 2015)

vanrim said:



			Simple Systems have said in an email to me that the soaked Lucie Nuts could ferment and become acidic depending on soaking conditions and temperature.
		
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SO? You don't have to be a biochemist to be able to tell when soaked feed is going/has gone off.  A little bit of common sense on the part of the horse owner is required.


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## vanrim (28 July 2015)

The feed company couldn't tell me at what point it would go off. I was soaking it overnight just as I have done for donkeys years with sugar beet with no ill effects. It looked ok, smelled ok and the horses were eating it. I had no reason to suspect it wasn't fit to feed.  





Buddy'sMum said:



			SO? You don't have to be a biochemist to be able to tell when soaked feed is going/has gone off.  A little bit of common sense on the part of the horse owner is required.
		
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## Mike007 (28 July 2015)

Personally ,I doubt they would become acidic enough to do anything. |The high calcium content would buffer a lot of ph change. Incidentally , the most recent research is highlighting VFA s .Volatile fatty acids , as being the prime cause of ulcers. These are produced by the hydrolysis of fats and oils.


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## Buddy'sMum (28 July 2015)

vanrim said:



			The feed company couldn't tell me at what point it would go off. I was soaking it overnight just as I have done for donkeys years with sugar beet with no ill effects. It looked ok, smelled ok and the horses were eating it. I had no reason to suspect it wasn't fit to feed.
		
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If it looked ok, smelled ok and the horses were eating it, then in all likelihood it was fit to feed. 
You have absolutely no proof that SS soaked alfalfa pellets was the cause of your horses' ulcers.


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## vanrim (28 July 2015)

You are quite correct - I have no proof. I have come to this conclusion based on the facts as mentioned originally. Only three horses on the yard were fed SS feed. Only these 3 horses were ill and at exactly the same time. The horses who were not fed the feed were unaffected. I have drawn my conclusion - you are perfectly entitled to draw your conclusion. My purpose in posting is to warn other horse owners of the possible consequences.






Buddy'sMum said:



			If it looked ok, smelled ok and the horses were eating it, then in all likelihood it was fit to feed. 
You have absolutely no proof that SS soaked alfalfa pellets was the cause of your horses' ulcers.
		
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## vanrim (28 July 2015)

I found a reference to this stating that "Gastric fermentation by-products, such as volatile fatty acids (VFA), alcohol, and lactic acid, may damage the squamous mucosa." The squamous mucosa is the unprotected top half of the stomach. My horses had pyloric ulcers which are found in the glandular part of the stomach. Thanks for the reference to recent research.





Mike007 said:



			Personally ,I doubt they would become acidic enough to do anything. |The high calcium content would buffer a lot of ph change. Incidentally , the most recent research is highlighting VFA s .Volatile fatty acids , as being the prime cause of ulcers. These are produced by the hydrolysis of fats and oils.
		
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## Queenbee (31 July 2015)

vanrim said:



			I found a reference to this stating that "Gastric fermentation by-products, such as volatile fatty acids (VFA), alcohol, and lactic acid, may damage the squamous mucosa." The squamous mucosa is the unprotected top half of the stomach. My horses had pyloric ulcers which are found in the glandular part of the stomach. Thanks for the reference to recent research.
		
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I'm sorry to post on what seems like an utterly ridiculous thread.  OP, if what you are trying to get at was that soaked Lucie Nuts could have caused this by going off and fermenting in the stomach, that is not the manufacturers fault, it is the horse owners fault, if that was indeed the cause which I highly doubt.  Just because these things all coincide does not in any way make it a cause and effect relationship.  I would be incredibly careful about pointing the finger of blame at a company when you have nothing at all in the way of proof, and you have only come to this conclusion by an ill informed process of reasoning without all the environmental and physical information.


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