# wanting to start a small  livery yard in Tarporely, Cheshire



## laceybrown (31 July 2013)

Hi there,

I have the opportunity to start a small livery yard in Tarporely.  It has around 15 stables with the possibility of building more should the need arise.  It currently has a large all weather arena, lockable tack room, feed room, horse shower and drying room and 27 acres of grazing.  I plan to add a small cross country training course and a round pen/lunge pen.  I would also hope to run small jumping leagues in the summer months.  The hacking in the area is fantastic and it is in a beautiful location.

I would primarily offer full livery with individual tailored packages if required.  I will be relocating entirely to do this and wish to be certain that with correct advertising etc it can be successful.  

My query is what price would people in the area be prepared to pay for the services on offer and how high would the demand be?

I have a rough idea of prices based on a yards I have seen in the surrounding areas.

Any suggestions or advice greatly appreciated.


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## JVB (1 August 2013)

Lucky you, how did you manage to find that! I'm looking to do something similar but on a much smaller scale.

My thoughts on it are that there are quite a lot of part/ full livery yards in the area and most of them all seem to have spaces which gives me concern on demand. It really depends on how nice it actually is and the cost.

I would say the high end full livery yards charge upwards of £90 a week I think.

The fact you will have a good amount of land will work in your favour as lots of yards I've researched heavily restrict grazing in winter, a big no no for me... but then lots of others may not mind this, particularly if you have a horse walker...

Good luck with it!


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## laceybrown (3 August 2013)

Hi JVB thanks for the reply, I'm not quite sure how it has all come about I just advertised that I wanted a yard and think I was extremely lucky.  Have you any knowledge of what demand would be in that area? 

Thanks


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## JVB (3 August 2013)

Hi, 

Noticed you advertised on cheshirehorse, which I would say is the best place to start. You can quickly get an idea of demand using that forum as loads advertise on there so easy to see who has places and when. I have to say it does seem to be the part/ full yards that advertise more often than not - hence why I think there may be more yards than demand.

I've even started to see some part/ full yards now advertise DIY, and a good DIY is hard to find there just doesn't seem to be enough about, but then I have no idea how they can make much money with all the costs involved.

I think if you can get the XC bit done that will give you a big advantage, but again depends on what you'll charge.

Do you mind me asking where you advertised looking for a yard?

Good luck


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## MileAMinute (3 August 2013)

Sure you can't consider DIY?!  It sounds perfect and I love Tarporley.

On a serious note, Full livery tends to go for around £80-£100 p/w here. 
The XC would be good but bear in mind The Gallops/Kelsall isn't far from you and they are a similar set up if you are wanting to hire it out you might have some competition.
The jumping leagues would be good, there aren't many close to here anymore.

Good luck and let us know how you get on


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## laceybrown (3 August 2013)

I would consider diy but am unsure of what the going rate would be. Im moving from ni and diy livery here is just a stable, facilities and turn out. Is that the same case in this area?

The xc course would probably be purely for the liveries as opposed to renting it out. 

I advertised on facebook, chit chat and tack. 

Thanks for the replys


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## JVB (3 August 2013)

Most DIY yards are about £20-30 depending on facilities and it is what you've said, so stable, turnout and usually a school and ok hacking... if you could offer this you would probably fill those spaces in about a day, heck I'd be interested in having a look.

Thanks for the info on where you advertised


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## laceybrown (3 August 2013)

Theres no way i can offer diy at that price. It wouldnt even cover my outgoings.


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## PoppyAnderson (3 August 2013)

Hardly anywhere caters for good-doers so if you can accommodate that, you'll stand out from the crowd.


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## Tiffany (3 August 2013)

Lucky you finding a yard to rent. What you include in your full livery will partly determine the price and the other factor will be the demand in the area. Where I am there are lots of yards and horses but not many people wanting full livery.
Cost round here is from £85 - £115. For DIY, the good yards charge £40 including t/o, bring in (winter) and haylage.

Good luck


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## webble (4 August 2013)

As others have said there is generally a shortage of diy and probably not enough demand for full

I would maybe start offering all three if possible. You might find that diy with services is your most popular option


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## laceybrown (4 August 2013)

The cost of the yard is way more than the cost of diy livery unfortunately other wise i would. Thank you all for your advice so far. Its given me something to think about


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## JVB (4 August 2013)

This is what always confuses me so much, people want to rent out yards to people so they can run it as a business but then they want so much money for the yard that running it as a livery business makes little or no money.

I wold have thought that if someone was renting out a whole yard then the cost per stable would be below the DIY price so that it could actually make money. It seems that for the Op that even running it as a full livery yard, once you take in cost of bedding, hay etc it'll only just bring in enough to cover the cost of the place therefore making very little money at all, certainly not paying a decent wage.

So many places seem to be like this, yet prices stay around the same for livery, it is just renters market so to speak... sorry, just ramblings on a Sunday morning...


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## laceybrown (5 August 2013)

It is hard to make the sums add up. I know if i have 11 livery it will cover all the bills and then intend to import horses for sale as well as i have a few contacts. I was hoping that would be enough to keep me going. Im not out to make loads of money as i know theres not really any to be made, i just want to go back to working on a yard a live a different life. Watch this space as i an coming close to making a decision.


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## emmah (5 August 2013)

I'm on competition livery in Tarporley and pay £120 per week (riding is included with that).  If you are in the right place in Tarporley you won't struggle to fill it there is a lot of money in the area and I know people are always enquiring about our yard.


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## laceybrown (5 August 2013)

Thanks a lot for responding. Im back out again today to work a few things out.


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## McCauley (15 August 2013)

I'd be inclined to go with Part Livery and Assisted DIY if you could make it work,...catering for lami prone horses and good doers too...and definitely All Year Turnout.  Your 'extras' i.e. full livery and weekend/illness/holiday cover can be added on, as and when needed.

Are you going to offer hay/haylage/straw/bedding into your deal or let folk buy their own in?

So many yards have very limited facilities for these types and in my humble opinion, these types are on the up and up in this country,...so many out there suffering by having to stand in a stable for hours on end because there's no paddocks or indeed 'track systems' for them to be out on.  Movement is such an important part of their being out and about and does promote better all round health and well being in my eyes...and usually better feet too!

I wish you the very best of luck in your venture,...if it were me, I'd seriously think about incorporating a 'track system' into your grazing,...


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## laceybrown (15 August 2013)

I would be offering bedding, haylage and hard feed for those who want it.  The turn out is good, I would anticipate to have full turnout in the summer for those that want it and then in winter 4-5 hours of turnout per day dependent on the weather.  On the days when the weather is horrendous it will be turn out in the arena and a turn out area for at least an hour a day.  If the business was successful I would be installing a horse walker.  Unless there is a reason for it I try not to keep my horses in the stable 24/7.  I would be happy to offer additional services for those with lami prone horses or those that need extra care.  To be honest I am happy to cater for what the clients want.  Unfortunately it won't include DIY livery as the sums just will not add up where that is concerned.


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## Tiffany (15 August 2013)

emmah said:



			I'm on competition livery in Tarporley and pay £120 per week (riding is included with that).  If you are in the right place in Tarporley you won't struggle to fill it there is a lot of money in the area and I know people are always enquiring about our yard.
		
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Emmah, does your yard offer full livery with grooming?


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## emmah (16 August 2013)

Tiffany said:



			Emmah, does your yard offer full livery with grooming?
		
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I'm not sure I can find out for you though tomorrow and let you know


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## laceybrown (16 August 2013)

Tiffany. I am hoping to be up and running by the middle of september and will happily put together a package that includes grooming and anything else you might require if you still require it by then.


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## Fanatical (16 August 2013)

I am not too far away so know the 'competition'. Obviously you are pretty close to Kelsall, and Somerford which prob leads the way and sets the standard. 

I have recently been looking at yards and my priorities are a good sized arena with a safe, well maintained, floodlit surface, and turnout. Turnout that is every day year round. Horses are designed to be at grass, they don't mind being out in the wet/ cold, and muddy fields are easily fixed in Spring if rolled. I don't mind if horses are out for only 3/4/5 hours in winter but DAILY turnout is vital for me.


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## noodle_ (16 August 2013)

oh i think i know which yard this is when it was up for rent..... 

turnout is a priority in cheshire...and an outdoor


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## Connemararider (17 August 2013)

Sadly, I think you would really struggle to fill your yard just offering full as there is an oversupply of places offering full livery in the area which is why nearly all of them are always advertising and always have spaces. There is also a desperate lack of yards offering DIY in the area that have decent facilities, probably for the same reason of them not providing enough of an income. As others have said, perhaps you would be more successful offering a mixture of options, trying to get mainly full to cover costs, but offering some part/assisted DIY/ DIY to fill the remaining spaces.

Having seen your advert on Cheshire Horse (as someone else has said, a really good place to advertise) I'm pretty certain I know the yard you mean. Being local for 20+yrs and knowing people who have been on that yard in the past, although the hacking from there is acceptable if you have a horse that is good in traffic, it is actually a bit of a rat run and I know that I wouldn't want to hack around there on one that wasn't 100% or on a young horse. The routes you can do are also fairly limited, although I suppose it depends on what you're previously used to and in the area are in fact pretty similar to what else is on offer. If the XC training course offered a bit of an off-road riding track too, that could be used as much of the year as possible, that would be a huge plus though.

Sorry to be the voice of doom and gloom, but I am trying to be realistic!


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## poddypea (17 August 2013)

Hi  I think I know the yard you are considering -got a farm selling unusual meat nearby?  I had a horse on there many years ago and live nearby. I know the yard has been improved a lot since then. Lovely stables but  hacking is not good. Its on a road which is a bit of a 'short cut' at certain times of day, also straight and fast in places and only one short loop ride, others all there and back hacks unless you are out for a long time. Ok with a 100% all traffic horse though.
There is quite an oversupply of full livery in the area at prices most people cannot afford . There is however a big demand for DIY or  Assisted Livery. There are so many excellent places to box to, Kelsall, Reaseheath, The Gallops, Harthill (Mitchells) etc that using your land to put up a cross country may not work out especially as that land used to be on the boggy side in the winter. (could have had new drainage by now). 
A friend who runs a very large livery yard in Shropshire found the cost of insurance for running small  events made it impossible to continue doing them. Good Luck if you go ahead it is a nice yard.


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## noodle_ (17 August 2013)

just before i get the wrong yard  - has anyone got  alink to the ad?

there is more of a demand for diy/assisted than full.....


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## laceybrown (17 August 2013)

Thanks for the advice. I dont think it is the yard you are thinking of.  But i will take all your comments on board.  The cross country will be for liveries/ training only i think at this stage as im aware there are some fantastic facilities in the area and probably couldnt compete with that. I definitely cant offer diy livery as i would lose money on every stable. As for assisted livery - what is usually expected in that area and what prices would be reasonable? 

Thanks again


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## poddypea (18 August 2013)

The best yards will offer a package to suit the individual.  Everyones needs are different but it could include the choice of morning turnout or evening bring in, rug changes, etc with a set charge for each. I would reckon £50 max for assisted livery.
The main thing that will keep your clients with you , and that they will pay a bit over the odds for, are a friendly happy yard where everyone is kept in the loop as to changes as well as decent stables, fencing, and facilities. Individual or small group decent turnout.
 I started my working life as a B.H.S.A.I in a teaching & residential holiday yard over 30 years ago ( for the amazing sum of £5.00 a week, 6 days ,living in!!!) and one of the main things we were taught was do not limit your market. Flexibility is very important. I am sure you will do well as you are making such an effort to research your market.


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## McCauley (19 August 2013)

I really do think that at the very least Assisted DIY is 'the future' (as Peter kay would say!).  If it can happen i think you'd be a welcome asset to the already existing yards in the area and hopefully be able to accommodate individual liveries with their 'litte extras' each week (they can add up and could be a good earner for you!).

I'm on assisted livery for much the same reasons as Poddypea explains,...flexibility is the key for me personally and i pay a basis £50 a week and have all my extras added on weekly as and when i want them.  I fill in a weekly sheet of what i would like that particular week, whether it be bringing in, feet pick, rug change, turnout, skip out, horse walker session, or indeed a 'full livery' day when needed.  I can quite easily pay another 15 - 20 each week for 'extras'!!

The yard is a lovely and peaceful and very friendly place to be and the owners think as much of livery's horses as they do their own ( i've caught them giving my boy a cuddle and a pat without their knowing i'm there...and it was lovely to see them giving my boy some TLC without looking false infront of me ...if you get my drift!).

Turnout for me is paramount ....all year, with no restrictions if it rains either (which alot of yards tend to do as soon as it does!!,....most frustrating).


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## emmah (19 August 2013)

I disagree and think there is a high demand for full livery in the area.  I know we get requests on a regular basis and are always full with a waiting list.  Also quite often people paying top whack for full livery don't often want to share with DIY liveries as it suits their horses to be in a routine ie if one gets fed they all get fed.  I used to be on a yard in Tarporley that offered assisted services and it often worked out more expensive for me to pay for services that it did to be on full livery and not need to worry.


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## laceybrown (19 August 2013)

Thanks again everyone for your input, you definitely have given me plenty of food for thought.  Fingers crossed all goes to plan.


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## McCauley (20 August 2013)

...exactly Emma!,...you could indeed make more pennies going assisted DIY!...Food for Thought there eh?!


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## Nugget La Poneh (20 August 2013)

I am currently looking for DIY yards as that suits me and my horse (and ultimately budget to start as re-locating to this area) and am struggling to find them. Assisted is a good compromise and the more I look into it this is what I am heading to as I am realising that I currently have a real luxury on my current yard with various people that offer their services unofficially so there is nearly always an option for cover and it is scaring me a little that I might not find this option where I am going to


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## laceybrown (20 August 2013)

I have thought about the assisted livery aspect and it is something i  am considering. However as i have been a diy client myself there are some aspects of it that i do not like. The main aspect is tje fact thay not all diy livery owners arrive in the morning at a realistic time to feed their animals. I have to say i like a good routine and if i go with assisted liveries i will probably ask to do the feeding myself. I suppose from the clients point of view that is one less hassle for them.  I expect that rug changes and turnout will be expected too. Realistically it would not make buisness sense to have all the boxes as assisted diy so will have to have a limit on how many i can take.


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## emmah (20 August 2013)

McCauley said:



			...exactly Emma!,...you could indeed make more pennies going assisted DIY!...Food for Thought there eh?!
		
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But I used them for one week then didnt need them for the next few weeks so my yard owner didnt really make any money out of me!


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## poddypea (21 August 2013)

Is it Laurel Farm you are looking at?.  The last tenant left there about May after having only been there a short time. If so there seem to have been several different people running the yard over the last few years. Not sure why as it is a nice yard. There is no one else around there doing livery although I think Sue Stratton might have a few at her riding school in Spurstow.

I spoke to a friend last night who runs a large livery Full, assisted & DIY  plus training on her own place on the other side of Nantwich and she said that people were being a lot more careful with their money and she was finding she was getting quite a lot of requests for full livereries wanting to go assisted, assisted to DIY & DIY to grazing only and of all variations she has far and away more enquiries from people wanting DIY or grazing.
She charges £30 for DIY. 
 In the Tarporley area there is a new DIY yard at Alparham (no hacking I think as directly onto main road & appears to be no arena) and a new small yard at Cotebrook.  As Stokes is for sale most liveries have left but then if he decides to stay maybe he will be taking on again.


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## noodle_ (21 August 2013)

poddypea said:



			Is it Laurel Farm you are looking at?.  The last tenant left there about May after having only been there a short time. If so there seem to have been several different people running the yard over the last few years. Not sure why as it is a nice yard. There is no one else around there doing livery although I think Sue Stratton might have a few at her riding school in Spurstow.

I spoke to a friend last night who runs a large livery Full, assisted & DIY  plus training on her own place on the other side of Nantwich and she said that people were being a lot more careful with their money and she was finding she was getting quite a lot of requests for full livereries wanting to go assisted, assisted to DIY & DIY to grazing only and of all variations she has far and away more enquiries from people wanting DIY or grazing.
She charges £30 for DIY. 
 In the Tarporley area there is a new DIY yard at Alparham (no hacking I think as directly onto main road & appears to be no arena) and a new small yard at Cotebrook.  As Stokes is for sale most liveries have left but then if he decides to stay maybe he will be taking on again.
		
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i thought it was laurel too.....

the guy put his prices up....my friend looked at the yard and was asking the rent money but only getting half the stables (this friend DIDNT rent it....)...just looked.....


nice looking yard but apparantly expensive


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## ArabianBeauty (12 September 2013)

From what I've seen around Cheshire, full livery ranges from £95 per week to £115 per week ( but that yard has an indoor, outdoor, separate jump arena, gallops, rug wash and dry room, horse walker, cross country, hot horse shower and solarium). The more facilities, the greater the price.
Assisted livery is around £5 for muck out , £7 - £8.50 for whole day, 50p - £1 for feed / haynet, 50p - £1.50 per rug change, £1.50-£2 for turn out and bring in, £2.50 for assisting vet / farrier visits. around these sorts of prices seem to be common.


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