# Olympic Eventing - just to clarify a couple of things...



## TableDancer (12 June 2012)

It was a very interesting debate on the team selection last night but I wanted to clear up one point in particular: the Olympic Eventing competition is at 4* not 3* level. I thought this was the case, but have just bothered to look it up on the FEI website - if you want to check, go to page 19 of the document specifying the olympic test for London 2012 for all three disciplines (sorry, meant to post a link but have closed it now). It also specifies a 10 minute XC, which will feel plenty long enough round that terrain, 4* dressage test, 1.25m SJ for the team medals and 1.30m SJ for the top 25 to decide the individual medals. So there you have it.

Also, just to be absolutely clear - I think lots of people understand this but there are a few who don't - there is a team of FIVE for the Olympics ie all riders are part of the team. The best three scores after the first SJ round are those that count for team positions, ie the worst two are discarded. The top 25 individuals then go and SJ again over a shorter, bigger course, taking forward their existing penalties. The position after this second SJ round then decides the individual medals. Simples


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## sare_bear (12 June 2012)

Thanks for that. Is it a recent change of a 4* test for the Olympics? I was always under the impression (obviously wrongly), that the cross country was 3* to allow the less experienced nations to get around safely.

Thanks for clearing that up.


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## TableDancer (12 June 2012)

sare_bear said:



			Thanks for that. Is it a recent change of a 4* test for the Olympics? I was always under the impression (obviously wrongly), that the cross country was 3* to allow the less experienced nations to get around safely.

Thanks for clearing that up.
		
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I'm pretty sure you are right, it went through a brief 3* incarnation - it was around the time of the Athens Olympics, when they were paranoid about equestrian, and eventing in particular, being thrown out of the Olympics as too expensive and not global enough. So they downgraded the Olympics to encourage wider participation, and I remember walking the Advanced course at Brockenhurst shortly afterwards with an Australian rider who had been at Athens, and he declared that the Athens course was softer than Brockenhurst  Around the same time, the FEI started a programme to encourage eventing from grass roots up in parts of the world like South America and Eastern Europe.

The IOC insisted they took it back up to 4* as the olympics is supposed to be the ultimate test in every sport, so it makes no sense to hold it at a lower level, however admirable the intentions. The work that has been done to encourage newer nations does seem to have helped, though, and the comoetition for olympic slots is far greeater now, as witnessed by Ireland and Australia failing to gain automatic team qualification


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## be positive (12 June 2012)

It has, as far as I know always been a 4* with a few changes over recent years to allow team and individual  medals to be decided within one competition it is the only event that did this and the Olympic committee did not think it was fair to get 2 medals for one competition.

I think it was Atlanta where they ran a team competition with a completely separate individual one, this was probably too costly and a logistical nightmare on a smaller site so the new format was brought in with the 2 SJ rounds as the decider. 

The cross country is 4* but the riders probably think it is nearer 3* as it tends to be built with the less experienced nations in mind and trying for a happy outcome rather than too many eliminations and falls which has happened in the past. I think though that the riders taking part from any where in the world now have so much more preparation opportunities that it may not be built small at Greenwich.

As for the team who would be a selector


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## _Rach_ (12 June 2012)

I have another stupid question that needs answering if you don't mind. Can they pick and choose the scores?  Say they pick one persons dressage score do they have to use their sj and xc as well or can they mix and match to get the best scores??  For eg
Rider 1= 50 dressage double clear
Rider 2= 32 dressage 40xc 2poles sj. 
Could thy have rider 2 dressage and rider 1 jumping scores?? 


Sorry for the silly question.


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## mik (12 June 2012)

Then I presume the selectors were bearing the extra sj phase in mind when they selected.


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## undertheweather (12 June 2012)

I seem to remember reading an autobiography, whether it was Pippa Funnell of Princess Anne's I'm not sure, and it was written in one of those that the Olympics was 3*. Interesting to know that it has changed!


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## TableDancer (12 June 2012)

_Rach_ said:



			I have another stupid question that needs answering if you don't mind. Can they pick and choose the scores?  Say they pick one persons dressage score do they have to use their sj and xc as well or can they mix and match to get the best scores??  For eg
Rider 1= 50 dressage double clear
Rider 2= 32 dressage 40xc 2poles sj. 
Could thy have rider 2 dressage and rider 1 jumping scores?? 


Sorry for the silly question.
		
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Not silly, but no, they can't do that or we'd be roping Laura B in to do the dressage phase


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## SpottedCat (12 June 2012)

I find it confusing that the selectors would name a horse that has never done a 4* over and above Opposition Buzz, even if that horse has been round the test event and won a 3*. Don't they say that you only know if you've got a 4* horse at your second 4*?! Does it mean OB has some soundness concerns? (I hope not!). 

It's not even like Topper is entered at Luhmuhlen to prove himself at 4* level?


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## be positive (12 June 2012)

_Rach_ said:



			I have another stupid question that needs answering if you don't mind. Can they pick and choose the scores?  Say they pick one persons dressage score do they have to use their sj and xc as well or can they mix and match to get the best scores??  For eg
Rider 1= 50 dressage double clear
Rider 2= 32 dressage 40xc 2poles sj. 
Could thy have rider 2 dressage and rider 1 jumping scores?? 


Sorry for the silly question.
		
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No they cant, it is the whole competition score of the rider, horse combination that counts. A nice idea though, Carl could do the dressage,


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## be positive (12 June 2012)

TableDancer said:



			Not silly, but no, they can't do that or we'd be roping Laura B in to do the dressage phase 

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Its a good plan, great minds and all that


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## Thistle (12 June 2012)

_Rach_ said:



			I have another stupid question that needs answering if you don't mind. Can they pick and choose the scores?  Say they pick one persons dressage score do they have to use their sj and xc as well or can they mix and match to get the best scores??  For eg
Rider 1= 50 dressage double clear
Rider 2= 32 dressage 40xc 2poles sj. 
Could thy have rider 2 dressage and rider 1 jumping scores?? 


Sorry for the silly question.
		
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No, it's the persons overall score at the end of 3 phases that counts


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## TableDancer (12 June 2012)

undertheweather said:



			I seem to remember reading an autobiography, whether it was Pippa Funnell of Princess Anne's I'm not sure, and it was written in one of those that the Olympics was 3*. Interesting to know that it has changed!
		
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It would be Pippa Funnell's as she was at Athens. Don't think they had star ratings in PA's day


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## _Rach_ (12 June 2012)

TableDancer said:



			Not silly, but no, they can't do that or we'd be roping Laura B in to do the dressage phase 

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be positive said:



			No they cant, it is the whole competition score of the rider, horse combination that counts. A nice idea though, Carl could do the dressage,
		
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be positive said:



			Its a good plan, great minds and all that

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Thistle said:



			No, it's the persons overall score at the end of 3 phases that counts
		
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 hehe thankyou


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## Thistle (12 June 2012)

The XC is 4* but has long routes and alternatives at 3* standard to allow less experienced nations to get round whilst accumulating time penalties.

IMO the who thing is fixed before it starts by the qualifing criteria which must allow a certain number of teams from pre set groups of countries. Meaning that in some groups where there is a strong eventing tradition it is harder to qualify that others. Beacause of this it isn't a fair test of the best in the world (I suppose that's what WEG is for) It's done like this to ensure a more even world wide spread of countries.


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## Thistle (12 June 2012)

SpottedCat said:



			I find it confusing that the selectors would name a horse that has never done a 4* over and above Opposition Buzz, even if that horse has been round the test event and won a 3*. Don't they say that you only know if you've got a 4* horse at your second 4*?! Does it mean OB has some soundness concerns? (I hope not!). 

It's not even like Topper is entered at Luhmuhlen to prove himself at 4* level?
		
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I would be guessing that the selectors have a great deal of inside info on the course and feel that it will be 'soft' so that's why they are chosing to leave one of the best XC horses in the world out of the team


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## SpottedCat (12 June 2012)

Thistle said:



			I would be guessing that the selectors have a great deal of inside info on the course and feel that it will be 'soft' so that's why they are chosing to leave one of the best XC horses in the world out of the team
		
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It's like that competition in was it Russia? Which had the horrible jump that everyone messed up over except the home nation who, it turned out, had been practicing over it for weeks before hand 

I guess Topper has proven himself over the terrain, if not at the level or in the atmosphere....


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## TableDancer (12 June 2012)

Thistle said:



			The XC is 4* but has long routes and alternatives at 3* standard to allow less experienced nations to get round whilst accumulating time penalties.

IMO the who thing is fixed before it starts by the qualifing criteria which must allow a certain number of teams from pre set groups of countries. Meaning that in some groups where there is a strong eventing tradition it is harder to qualify that others. Beacause of this it isn't a fair test of the best in the world (I suppose that's what WEG is for) It's done like this to ensure a more even world wide spread of countries.
		
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I think I disagree with this  I believe there's a good chance that at the end of the competition at Greenwich, those standing on the podium could be described as the best in the world, at least for a while. The qualifying criteria do ensure a wider spread than if the whole thing was a free for all, but all the real contender nations, and riders, do get in through the back door ie individual qualification route in any case. I know we've had a couple of softer XC courses, Sydney was the last really tough one, but in HK time played its part, and a few notables were caught out, and I'm betting Greenwich will be no walk in the park


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## Thistle (12 June 2012)

But TD you are agreeing with the first part of my statement, that time will be the decider, true 4* horses will make the time and less experienced will get home with penalties


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## Thistle (12 June 2012)

TableDancer said:



			I think I disagree with this  I believe there's a good chance that at the end of the competition at Greenwich, those standing on the podium could be described as the best in the world, at least for a while. The qualifying criteria do ensure a wider spread than if the whole thing was a free for all, but all the real contender nations, and riders, do get in through the back door ie individual qualification route in any case. I know we've had a couple of softer XC courses, Sydney was the last really tough one, but in HK time played its part, and a few notables were caught out, and I'm betting Greenwich will be no walk in the park 

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Surely that's the case for individuals but not for teams though


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## TableDancer (12 June 2012)

Thistle said:



			I would be guessing that the selectors have a great deal of inside info on the course and feel that it will be 'soft' so that's why they are chosing to leave one of the best XC horses in the world out of the team
		
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I believe that they have basically gone for broke, or rather gold. They have picked a team that, if it all goes according to plan, could/should win gold. They haven't gone for any safe options like NW who will be reliable XC but is not a potential individual medallist. Those they have selected are all arguably, on a good day, capable of winning an individual medal. You can lose two along the way, and still bring back a team gold by the brilliance of the other three. That's what they've gone for, I believe. Higher risk, but potentially higher rewards, and arguably necessary given the strength of the Germans, Aussies and Kiwis...


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## SpottedCat (12 June 2012)

And isn't it true that some of the 'qualified' teams actually haven't qualified their horses for 4* so despite nominally having the slots, they won't be there on the day?


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## kerilli (12 June 2012)

SpottedCat said:



			I find it confusing that the selectors would name a horse that has never done a 4* over and above Opposition Buzz, even if that horse has been round the test event and won a 3*. Don't they say that you only know if you've got a 4* horse at your second 4*?! Does it mean OB has some soundness concerns? (I hope not!). 

It's not even like Topper is entered at Luhmuhlen to prove himself at 4* level?
		
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Yes, exactly. There's been a lot of guff on Twitter from 'experts' about it being much better to choose 3* combinations over 4* for the Olympics (WTF???!!!)... but the xc will be as testing as they can make it, without annihilating those from lesser nations... so it makes sense to have proven 4* combinations... but the type that don't get blasé over 3* fences having jumped 4* fences...
If OB has been omitted because of his headstrongness xc, which is the only possible justification I can see (unless the team vet saw something?) then he shouldn't be first reserve/substitute either I guess.     but he's as quick and agile as a cat and as honest as they come, as well as that breathtaking scope... honestly, think maybe there is something wrong with the test if one of the very very best xc horses in the world is being omitted because the course might not suit his phenomenal way of going!
i suspect the course is more likely to be 3* dimensions with extra technicality... i had it on very good authority that Athens was a 2 1/2*  (remember the first (?) water, just running out up a slope, not even a fence there let alone a skinny?! i couldn't believe my eyes!) Beijing was fiendishly twisty and almost impossible to get the time, but I was told it was not HUGE the way they used to be. whatever the 'party line', the course will not be as big as a proper 4* imho...
i think we'll see a horribly skinny skinny on the turn at the bottom of a very steep slope, that sort of thing, something where you'll need absolute 100% trust and accuracy to do it, and a hatful of time pens for the long route or an expensive 20pens if you don't (like the target fence that took so many scalps at the big Champs some years ago, was it the last but one Euros?) 
Anyone else placing bets on what questions we'll see?!


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## TableDancer (12 June 2012)

SpottedCat said:



			And isn't it true that some of the 'qualified' teams actually haven't qualified their horses for 4* so despite nominally having the slots, they won't be there on the day?
		
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There is a certain timeframe for them to qualify, can't remember when it finishes/d. If they can't get qualified in time the slots are passed down the line - it is all fairly efficient!

Thistle, you are right, I agreed with your first statement, it was the second paragraph I didn't


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## SpottedCat (12 June 2012)

TableDancer said:



			There is a certain timeframe for them to qualify, can't remember when it finishes/d. If they can't get qualified in time the slots are passed down the line - it is all fairly efficient!
		
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Exactly - I was agreeing with you that the best in the world will get through


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## Ali16 (12 June 2012)

kerilli said:



			Anyone else placing bets on what questions we'll see?!
		
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Double of open corners with sawn-off back rails??! Would cause carnage like the first time they wre at Badders. Frangible pins at the ready..

Think you're right though - lots and lots of accuracy questions rather than big and bold like the 4*s we're accustomed to here. 

Is Sue Benson still the designer? Know a few riders kicked up a stink about that initially, but not heard anything lately...


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## TableDancer (12 June 2012)

SpottedCat said:



			Exactly - I was agreeing with you
		
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Sorry, I'm not used to it    Paranoid? Moi??


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## VRIN (12 June 2012)

kerilli said:



			i think we'll see a horribly skinny skinny on the turn at the bottom of a very steep slope, that sort of thing, something where you'll need absolute 100% trust and accuracy to do it, and a hatful of time pens for the long route or an expensive 20pens if you don't (like the target fence that took so many scalps at the big Champs some years ago, was it the last but one Euros?)
		
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It was in Italy when Zara had that disastrous SJ round...


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## kerilli (12 June 2012)

Ah yes VRIN, I remember now. Yes, better not mention that SJ round, because of course all the omitted riders 'crack under pressure' but those chosen don't!!!     The fact is, that can happen to anyone though... Karen O'C did pretty much exactly the same thing at the Worlds. 
Ali16, yes, she is... but I had it on very good authority some time ago that there was going to be a lot of influence/overseeing by a top xc designer, so don't panic.


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## SpottedCat (12 June 2012)

Socking big drop to a skinny/corner running downhill, and a bounce of rails into water. 

Also expect to see them jumping lots of 'theme' fences - a London Bus/Taxi, maybe a bowler hat, an umbrella, perhaps some fish and chips?!


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## Ali16 (12 June 2012)

kerilli said:



			Ali16, yes, she is... but I had it on very good authority some time ago that there was going to be a lot of influence/overseeing by a top xc designer, so don't panic.   

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Phew!  I just remember talking to a certain (rather outspoken..) Kiwi rider about it when it was first announced. Safe to say he isn't her biggest fan. It was all over H&H too.


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## SpottedCat (12 June 2012)

TableDancer said:



			Sorry, I'm not used to it    Paranoid? Moi??
		
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Not used to me agreeing with you, or people in general?!


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## Suziq77 (12 June 2012)

I want to see another Olympics like this:

"On the day of the cross-country at the Los Angeles Olympics, Ginny and Priceless set off early I wanted a shot of them jumping the Crescent Oxer which I knew could be spectacular if - as Dot had told me - they took the direct route through the centre. If they had decided to choose the easy way round the side I would have missed my picture altogether. It was a gamble, especially as no one before them took the central route and a lot of the riders seemed to be making heavy weather of the course. The gloomy predictions that no one would clear seemed to have a ring of truth. Then Priceless and Ginny appeared, heading straight for the centre of the oxer. It was the most enormous fence, but they just sailed over it. As they carried on round the course, I could hear the commentator saying. "Clear, clear, clear." and it was as if a cloud had lifted." Kit Houghton, Equestrian Photographer


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## Tillypup (12 June 2012)

Suziq77 said:



			I want to see another Olympics like this:

"On the day of the cross-country at the Los Angeles Olympics, Ginny and Priceless set off early I wanted a shot of them jumping the Crescent Oxer which I knew could be spectacular if - as Dot had told me - they took the direct route through the centre. If they had decided to choose the easy way round the side I would have missed my picture altogether. It was a gamble, especially as no one before them took the central route and a lot of the riders seemed to be making heavy weather of the course. The gloomy predictions that no one would clear seemed to have a ring of truth. Then Priceless and Ginny appeared, heading straight for the centre of the oxer. It was the most enormous fence, but they just sailed over it. As they carried on round the course, I could hear the commentator saying. "Clear, clear, clear." and it was as if a cloud had lifted." Kit Houghton, Equestrian Photographer
		
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Me too!! They were my complete and utter idols as a child growing up!


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## kerilli (12 June 2012)

Suziq77, me too! I remember how HUGE that fence was, jeez it looked like jumping a house with the gappyness, gaping spread, and the enormous drop.
Also, the Barcelona Olympics, the direct route into the water was almost impossible but Matt Ryan did it, and got gold for his bravery!
I know everyone thinks the courses now are mega-difficult but honestly, some of the things they had to do then...


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## JGC (12 June 2012)

Suziq77 said:



			I want to see another Olympics like this:

"On the day of the cross-country at the Los Angeles Olympics, Ginny and Priceless set off early I wanted a shot of them jumping the Crescent Oxer which I knew could be spectacular if - as Dot had told me - they took the direct route through the centre. If they had decided to choose the easy way round the side I would have missed my picture altogether. It was a gamble, especially as no one before them took the central route and a lot of the riders seemed to be making heavy weather of the course. The gloomy predictions that no one would clear seemed to have a ring of truth. Then Priceless and Ginny appeared, heading straight for the centre of the oxer. It was the most enormous fence, but they just sailed over it. As they carried on round the course, I could hear the commentator saying. "Clear, clear, clear." and it was as if a cloud had lifted." Kit Houghton, Equestrian Photographer
		
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I got goosebumps reading this - all the memories it brought back!

I have a (very) numpty question. I didn't get to see the Beijing Olympics cross-country - was the course there a three* type? Just someone said that TC had never been round a 4*, but she medalled there individually and on the team so I wondered?

Sorry about the stupid question - I have many other stupid questions, but will try not to bombard you all with them


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## SpottedCat (12 June 2012)

No, not TC has never been round 4* (she has), Topper, one of Piggy French's named horses has never been round 4*.


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## KingfisherBlue (12 June 2012)

I've followed eventing since 1969 and always like to give credit where credit is due.

Zara Philips has proven, most admirably, that she is a very accomplished competition rider. However, I am very, very surprised that she has been chosen for the 2012 Olympics eventing team. 

My reaction is founded on concerns for her mount, High Kingdom. Whilst this horse has been consistent over the years, I would not call recent results 'top notch'. Anyone can check the record here:

http://www.britisheventing.com/asp-net/Events/Results.aspx?HorseId=75491

I am a fair-minded person, and if anyone here can reassure me that the horse is totally ready for the Olympic challenge, please do! 

Like everyone else, I want Team GB to win EVENTING GOLD


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## JGC (12 June 2012)

SpottedCat said:



			No, not TC has never been round 4* (she has), Topper, one of Piggy French's named horses has never been round 4*.
		
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Aaah! Thanks! Went all a bit confused.com there!


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## kerilli (12 June 2012)

The pic in the middle of this page is Ginny and Mr P jumping that infamous fence, iirc:
http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?um=1...w=182&start=0&ndsp=19&ved=1t:429,r:8,s:0,i:97

Beijing... was twisty, undulating (built round a golf course iirc), tight, very tightly timed. The fences weren't humungous but there was lots to do. I'd say it was 3* although obv i didn't walk it! The penultimate combination was a double of very tightly angled hedge and ditches, which hardly anyone did. Andrew Nicholson was clear to that point and would have gone inside the time (only one of the day iirc) but had a fall at the second one when he tried it, horse just didn't react fast enough, was tired. At least the humidity shouldn't be a problem in Greenwich!
So, I think the Greenwich course will be v similar to the Beijing course in that respect. Accuracy, angles, tightness, turning, rather than humungous. 

As for Zara's inclusion KingfisherBlue... I'm convoluted. She has very good form on that horse for last season and this, and is an ace rider under high pressure, and of course it's fantastic for the sport (and pressure was, allegedly, brought to bear in that dept), but there's no way he can be considered as experienced and secure xc as Buzz. Her inclusion doesn't surprise me as much as some others...


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## Ali16 (12 June 2012)

kerilli said:



			The pic in the middle of this page is Ginny and Mr P jumping that infamous fence, iirc:
http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?um=1...w=182&start=0&ndsp=19&ved=1t:429,r:8,s:0,i:97

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Holy Christ that's a fence and a half! Think we've all gone a bit soft 

Always admired her position too.. beautiful.


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## brushingboots (12 June 2012)

KingfisherBlue said:



			I've followed eventing since 1969 and always like to give credit where credit is due.

Zara Philips has proven, most admirably, that she is a very accomplished competition rider. However, I am very, very surprised that she has been chosen for the 2012 Olympics eventing team. 

My reaction is founded on concerns for her mount, High Kingdom. Whilst this horse has been consistent over the years, I would not call recent results 'top notch'. Anyone can check the record here:

http://www.britisheventing.com/asp-net/Events/Results.aspx?HorseId=75491

I am a fair-minded person, and if anyone here can reassure me that the horse is totally ready for the Olympic challenge, please do! 

Like everyone else, I want Team GB to win EVENTING GOLD 

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I'd be inclined to disagree with this. Theres not been a 4* in this country this year due to the cancellation of badminton. However, this year, HK has only had one pole down. In an Olympic year, i think that's what we need to see. A consistent horse. In fact, i'd say it's been consistent enough in the last 2 years. It put in a cracking performance at Burghley last year with Zara in it's first 4*. It's a super consistent horse looking back through it's results from when it first started out!


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## Tillypup (12 June 2012)

Ali16 said:



			Holy Christ that's a fence and a half! Think we've all gone a bit soft 

Always admired her position too.. beautiful.
		
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I've just looked at that pic! Yikes!! I've also had a little trawl through some of the other older pics of Ginny, there's one of her walking the SJ course (of the 3DE) with Nick Skelton in a shellsuit!!! Looking through the pics were such a blast from the past! I remember when Ginny was the Mystery Guest on A Question of Sport as well!!! I've always always always wanted to be a Mystery Guest on that show!!!!


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## KingfisherBlue (12 June 2012)

Thank-you to Kerilli and Brushing Boots for your responses to my earlier post regarding High Kingdom


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## Alfami (12 June 2012)

Go Ginny!  Gave me goosebumps too!

I'm a bit  by the team tbh.  I think Zara deserves her place (pressure brought to bear or otherwise) but I am completely gutted for Nicola and surprised re: Tina getting the place.  I agree they've gone for a s*** or bust team, I just hope it's not the latter.

Also surprised that WFP went for Lionheart in favour of PH - presume there must be some soundness issues with the latter, otherwise who would get off a double 4* winner in favour of the less experienced horse??

Whatever.  Good luck to them all, I'll be screaming at the telly in support of anyone with a Union Jack saddlecloth, whoever they are.  Decision made now - let's trust the selectors, who work very closely with the riders, get behind them and show them our full support.


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## Jane_Lou (12 June 2012)

SpottedCat said:



			No, not TC has never been round 4* (she has), Topper, one of Piggy French's named horses has never been round 4*.
		
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Ah but at Hong Kong it was the same with Miners Frolic, he hadn't competed at 4* prior to the Olympics and the same was said of him!


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## brushingboots (12 June 2012)

Just seen this on Twitter;

Ollie Williams &#8207;@BBCSport_Ollie
Eventing: am told Nicola Wilson "will issue a press release today". Zara Phillips selected ahead of her in GB team but she could yet appeal.


Be interested to know how she could appeal?


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## Suziq77 (12 June 2012)

Ali16 said:



			Holy Christ that's a fence and a half! Think we've all gone a bit soft 

Always admired her position too.. beautiful.
		
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Not bad for a horse that "might make a nice riding club horse but that's about as far as he'll go" hmm?  

Ginny was my inspiration as a kid and I still read bits from her autobiography when I have wobbly 'I'm just not good enough' moments


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## Tillypup (12 June 2012)

brushingboots said:



			Just seen this on Twitter;

Ollie Williams &#8207;@BBCSport_Ollie
Eventing: am told Nicola Wilson "will issue a press release today". Zara Phillips selected ahead of her in GB team but she could yet appeal.


Be interested to know how she could appeal?
		
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Not sure but there have been several other similar issues in other sports as the teams are announced, Triathlon and Tae Kwon Do that I know about, possibly others too.


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## Tillypup (12 June 2012)

Suziq77 said:



			Not bad for a horse that "might make a nice riding club horse but that's about as far as he'll go" hmm?  

Ginny was my inspiration as a kid and I still read bits from her autobiography when I have wobbly 'I'm just not good enough' moments 

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I had the Priceless biog, I may have to have a search for it at my folks house when I'm there next!


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## CaleruxShearer (12 June 2012)

Nicola could appeal?? How would that work? I think Zara deserves her place, its a couple of others I'm not quite so sure about


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## popsdosh (12 June 2012)

I am afraid knowing a bit of how BE and the selectors work ,Nicola would never be looked at again for selection if she appeals.The last thing we need is problems in the camp ,there were enough problems in Hong Kong on the team.
I really feel for Nicola ,but that is why we have selectors (well one ultimately)let it be on their heads. For three of the team I am certain this will be their last Olympics,and this may have been taken into account.


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## kerilli (12 June 2012)

^^^ yes, i agree with this. creating ripples (or worse) is just not done... LW's outspokenness over Shabraak's omission a few years ago may well have made them disinclined to include her now...
as for it being the last Olympics for certain riders... hmm... but surely it's about taking the very best we have (and 2 of those 3 are, imho!) not being swayed by sentiment etc. The selectors have done that before for the Olympics and it backfired agonisingly... some of us have long memories!


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## JGC (12 June 2012)

Oooooo, thanks Kerilli for the photo - I've gone all gooey-eyed for the years you could tell exactly who everyone was by the colours they wore even from a mile away  And the explanation about Beijing, was feeling left out


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## kerilli (12 June 2012)

JGC, check out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SI4MvKzaWUk
(prob with sound off, there's no commentary anyway!). the double of hedges, which was the crucial penultimate fence, is shown right at the beginning...  there's a lot of footage of Mary King's round.
also, the start of this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uH5FD7g51Y
again, irritating editing but you get the idea of the angles in the combinations etc etc.


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## teapot (12 June 2012)

Interesting thread - thanks TD.

Here's the US shortlist: 

Phillip Dutton and Mystery Whisper
Phillip Dutton and Mighty Nice
Boyd Martin and Neville Bardos
Boyd Martin and Otis Barbotiere
Sinead Halpin and Manoir De Carneville
Karen O'Connor and Mr. Medicott
Will Coleman and Twizzel
Clark Montgomery and Loughan Glen
Tiana Coudray and Ringwood Magister
Allison Springer and Arthur
Marilyn Little-Meredith and RF Rovano Rex

and the Canadian:

Hawley Bennett and Gin N Juice
Rebecca Howard and Riddle Master
Jessica Phoenix and Exponential
Michele Mueller and Amistad
Peter Barry and Kilrodan Abbott
Shandiss Wewiora and Rockfield Grant Juan (Alternates)


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## Sults (12 June 2012)

Does anyone know WFP isn't using Parklane Hawk? 

Am also gutted for NW! Though i think the thing is that team GB have nearly 10 combinations that are worthy of being in the team!


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## meardsall_millie (12 June 2012)

Alfami said:



			Also surprised that WFP went for Lionheart in favour of PH - presume there must be some soundness issues with the latter, otherwise who would get off a double 4* winner in favour of the less experienced horse??
		
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Didn't anyone see CMP's comment in his H&H column about the debt of gratitude WFP owes to the GB Team farrier for getting PLH through the trot-up at Kentucky?  Apparently he spent several hours working with him as he was very sore after xc - maybe the selectors don't want to run that risk?


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## JGC (12 June 2012)

kerilli said:



			JGC, check out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SI4MvKzaWUk
(prob with sound off, there's no commentary anyway!). the double of hedges, which was the crucial penultimate fence, is shown right at the beginning...  there's a lot of footage of Mary King's round.
also, the start of this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uH5FD7g51Y
again, irritating editing but you get the idea of the angles in the combinations etc etc.
		
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Great, thanks! Am now wondering about the wisdom of building a twisty, technical, but not humungous course that will tire horses out rather than a big bold rider-frightener, but I'll resist hijacking the thread anymore, poncey dressage rider that I am 

All I would like to say is - I would not want to be a selector! Damned if you do ... As someone pointed out, perhaps there are soundness issues that we don't know about - knowing some people closely related to high-level dressage, I was surprised by some of the top horses (and some of the riders!) that have issues bubbling under the surface, which are not currently a problem, but which could be. I hope it isn't that though


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## meardsall_millie (12 June 2012)

kerilli said:



			Yes, better not mention that SJ round, because of course all the omitted riders 'crack under pressure' but those chosen don't!!!     The fact is, that can happen to anyone though... Karen O'C did pretty much exactly the same thing at the Worlds.
		
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That's a bit unfair K! 

Of course it can happen to anyone - I don't think there's a huge uprising arguing about selected (or non-selected) riders cracking under pressure is there?

Remember WFP at the last fence on the XC at Beijing?


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## tiggs (12 June 2012)

From Nicola's website


Nicola and Opposition Buzz named as reserves for Team GB
Nicola and Opposition Buzz have been named as reserves for the eventing team who will represent Team GB at the Olympics. 'Obviously I am gutted not to be selected for the Olympics, especially with the improvement that Opposition Buzz showed in the dressage phase at Bramham', says Nicola, who continues, 'I fully respect the selectors decision and wish the five riders who are part of Team GB at the Olympics the very best of luck'.


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## kerilli (12 June 2012)

hope it's not seen as a thread hijack, but if anyone wants to see a seriously big and very technical Olympics track:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8W4pyPz1yc
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9E7K8xKyCk&list=UUTyEyi1YMoXb-i50M36bQZg&index=1&feature=plcp

rewatching this has made me very sad that we won't see Andrew Hoy (is Rutherglen good enough?) or Blyth Tait riding at these Olympics...


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## kerilli (12 June 2012)

meardsall_millie said:



			That's a bit unfair K! 

Of course it can happen to anyone - I don't think there's a huge uprising arguing about selected (or non-selected) riders cracking under pressure is there?

Remember WFP at the last fence on the XC at Beijing?  

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Erm, that's why i said it can happen to anyone... but let's face it, that was a medal position iirc, thrown away by a bad split-second decision. As was KOC's.
I didn't say 'a huge uprising' but the comment has been made, of a non-selected rider, rather unfairly I think.
I don't think WFP's misser at the last fence was 'cracking under pressure', it was 'hustling to try to avoid every last time penalty' and, thank god, getting away with it! he did have the grace to apologise for nearly giving us all heart attacks...


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## Honey08 (12 June 2012)

OK, next question  from me...

What days is it on?  Just got my July roster in and wondering if I'm even around to watch it on tv..


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## kerilli (12 June 2012)

Honey08 said:



			OK, next question  from me...

What days is it on?  Just got my July roster in and wondering if I'm even around to watch it on tv..
		
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Mon 30 July.
I'm hoping we can get enough takers to run the ERA Summer Party, so I can watch it on a huge screen in a marquee, with loads of food and drinkies and a fabulous atmosphere... absolutely cannot wait!


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## ihatework (12 June 2012)

tiggs said:



			From Nicola's website


Nicola and Opposition Buzz named as reserves for Team GB
Nicola and Opposition Buzz have been named as reserves for the eventing team who will represent Team GB at the Olympics. 'Obviously I am gutted not to be selected for the Olympics, especially with the improvement that Opposition Buzz showed in the dressage phase at Bramham', says Nicola, who continues, 'I fully respect the selectors decision and wish the five riders who are part of Team GB at the Olympics the very best of luck'.
		
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The most politically correct thing she could have done in the circumstances.
I'm gutted for Nicola, I 100% think she should be in the team.
She needs to act the bigger person here, not even contemplate appealing (won't do her any favours in the future), and be ready to step in at short notice, which lets face it - with 5 horses in a team is more than possible one will be lame.


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## Swirlymurphy (12 June 2012)

Alright you lot, I'm afraid I'm going to have to name this thread as the reason I've achieved so bl**dy little in terms of work this afternoon!!  I have spent a happy hour (or two) trawling through eventing vids on youtube, googling photos of some of the eventers in the 80's and 90's, and frankly have had a much better time than I would have had if I'd been doing what I was supposed to be doing in the first place! 

I think as someone has said earlier, the selectors are damned if they do, and damned if they don't.  We are lucky that we have such a good pool of talent from which to choose.  The US have similar numbers (hence the shortlist coming to Barbury) but take a look at some of the comments on the Eventing Nation website - it's not just the UK selection that is controversial.

It's going to be an edge-of-the-seat competiton for sure!


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## armchair_rider (12 June 2012)

Have you seen the Burghley website with extended highlights from the early 90s? That makes some interesting viewing.

Has Miner's Frolic had soundness issues or just sickness? If he's been persistantly unsound then picking him seems to be a big risk of the type which doesn't often pay off.


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## Honey08 (12 June 2012)

armchair_rider said:



			Have you seen the Burghley website with extended highlights from the early 90s? That makes some interesting viewing.

Has Miner's Frolic had soundness issues or just sickness? If he's been persistantly unsound then picking him seems to be a big risk of the type which doesn't often pay off.
		
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He just had a virus, albeit a serious one, I think.  Looked fine on Sunday!

Interesting, just reading the Telegraph write up of Zara and Bramham from Sunday that my aunt brought round, and it says 40% of horses had four fences down in the show jumping...


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## teapot (12 June 2012)

armchair_rider said:



			Have you seen the Burghley website with extended highlights from the early 90s? That makes some interesting viewing.

Has Miner's Frolic had soundness issues or just sickness? If he's been persistantly unsound then picking him seems to be a big risk of the type which doesn't often pay off.
		
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Miner's Frolic had something (can't remember what it was) which almost killed him last year.

BBC have cottoned onto the '6th games for Mary King' bit too - isn't that now a record or something?


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## kerilli (12 June 2012)

armchair_rider said:



			Have you seen the Burghley website with extended highlights from the early 90s? That makes some interesting viewing.

Has Miner's Frolic had soundness issues or just sickness? If he's been persistantly unsound then picking him seems to be a big risk of the type which doesn't often pay off.
		
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Oooh, i'll have a look. i have most of those on VHS tapes anyway though...   
I think MF's illness last year was the only problem, I haven't heard of soundness problems.


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## armchair_rider (12 June 2012)

Thanks. I know he was very ill list year but I was trying to remember if he'd had issues previously.

MK is a comparitive newcomer compared to Canadian SJ'er Ian Miller who has been to 9 olympic games!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_athletes_with_the_most_appearances_at_Olympic_Games << indicates 86 people who've competed at least 6 times and at least 17 with 7+ Olympic games under their belts.

Are the eventing team going to the opening ceremony? If so MK must be a good bet for GB flag carrier, it's always one of the most experienced pople in the team


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## teapot (12 June 2012)

armchair_rider said:



			Thanks. I know he was very ill list year but I was trying to remember if he'd had issues previously.

MK is a comparitive newcomer compared to Canadian SJ'er Ian Miller who has been to 9 olympic games!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_athletes_with_the_most_appearances_at_Olympic_Games << indicates 86 people who've competed at least 6 times and at least 17 with 7+ Olympic games under their belts.

Are the eventing team going to the opening ceremony? If so MK must be a good bet for GB flag carrier, it's always one of the most experienced pople in the team
		
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She'll be the most Olympic-fied eventer though for GB. Not a bad achievement!

I'll be surprised if they do - opening ceremony isn't finishing until midnight and the first dressage is the following morning.


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## Gamebird (12 June 2012)

As far as I remember Miners Frolic had a rub on his withers going into Badminton last year which was infected. It was treated with antibiotics but led to him developing Colitis X - a frequently fatal condition in horses which is a rare but recognised side-effect of anitbiotic use. I think he spent something ridiculous like 6 weeks in intensive care.

Certainly not an issue that would bother the selectors now that he's fully recovered.


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## henryhorn (12 June 2012)

I think Zara's horse has actually done a 4* but it does seem woefully inexperienced in comparison with OB. I think none of us will ever know half the reasons behind these choices, but there will be good ones I'm sure, the selectors would have chosen the horses and riders they believe can bring home gold. Yogi will have been working with the squad for a long time now so will know their strengths better than anyone, and he won't want to look silly, but I agree with you, OP is my favourite horse to watch XC, and I think he would have zoomed round this course. ...


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## oldvic (12 June 2012)

Yes, the US short list also contains some less than obvious choices - perhaps more than ours. Maybe we should hope they will continue the same selection policy!
Our selectors are a VERY experienced panel who have been involved with the sport at Olympic level for many years. Yogi is the performance manager and sits in on the meeting in an advisory capacity but doesn't vote on decisions.
Kerilli - yes, Barcelona was very big with very long alternatives to get people round. At the last water, only Andrew Nicholson, Matt Ryan and maybe 1 or 2 others went straight successfully. As far as I remember, team orders were to go long for most so some top riders weren't allowed to try. It was a fabulous course. Hong kong had different challenges. Because of the climate, the XC was only 8 mins but that increases the intensity of effort which makes the questions harder.
As far as selection goes, at the Olympics it is all about medals, particularly gold. You get nothing for being 4th so it is all or nothing and hoping that fortune favours the brave. There was a lot of criticism of one rider in Hong Kong for going for the time. It nearly came off but he fell at the 2nd last. He needed to try to give himself as much advantage as he could as the horse was a notoriously bad show jumper and, with 2 rounds, a medal was going to be hard. There was no point in riding for 4th place. We can all be guilty of criticising without knowing all the facts. 

The XC consultant at Greenwich is Pierre Michelet - reknowned for forward distances, clever lines and refusal to use pins so it will be interesting to see how much influence he has. The riders faith in him has gone a long way in placating them over the choice of designer.


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## oldvic (12 June 2012)

The reasons behind selection have to stay private to be fair to horses, riders and owners. Issues with their horses are none of our business an could affect their futures.

High kingdom's form has got better and better as he has gained experience and it is really the last 12 months that count.


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## TableDancer (12 June 2012)

oldvic said:



			As far as selection goes, at the Olympics it is all about medals, particularly gold. You get nothing for being 4th so it is all or nothing and hoping that fortune favours the brave. There was a lot of criticism of one rider in Hong Kong for going for the time. It nearly came off but he fell at the 2nd last. He needed to try to give himself as much advantage as he could as the horse was a notoriously bad show jumper and, with 2 rounds, a medal was going to be hard. There was no point in riding for 4th place. We can all be guilty of criticising without knowing all the facts. 

The XC consultant at Greenwich is Pierre Michelet - reknowned for forward distances, clever lines and refusal to use pins so it will be interesting to see how much influence he has. The riders faith in him has gone a long way in placating them over the choice of designer.
		
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Totally agree with the first paragraph. And didn't know about Pierre Michelet, that is fascinating as he is just the right sort of person for that terrain. Personally I LOVE riding his courses but you need perfect lines, bold riding and a totally obedient, straight horse who totally trusts you (in my opinion). Should be fascinating!



oldvic said:



			The reasons behind selection have to stay private to be fair to horses, riders and owners. Issues with their horses are none of our business an could affect their futures.

High kingdom's form has got better and better as he has gained experience and it is really the last 12 months that count.
		
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Once again, I couldn't agree more. Plus, these selection things are not a paper exercise. HK is a stunning horse which oozes class and has hit form at the right time - he could surprise a lot of people in Greenwich, just like MF did in HK


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## kerilli (12 June 2012)

oldvic said:



			Kerilli - yes, Barcelona was very big with very long alternatives to get people round. At the last water, only Andrew Nicholson, Matt Ryan and maybe 1 or 2 others went straight successfully. As far as I remember, team orders were to go long for most so some top riders weren't allowed to try. It was a fabulous course. Hong kong had different challenges. Because of the climate, the XC was only 8 mins but that increases the intensity of effort which makes the questions harder.
As far as selection goes, at the Olympics it is all about medals, particularly gold. You get nothing for being 4th so it is all or nothing and hoping that fortune favours the brave. There was a lot of criticism of one rider in Hong Kong for going for the time. It nearly came off but he fell at the 2nd last. He needed to try to give himself as much advantage as he could as the horse was a notoriously bad show jumper and, with 2 rounds, a medal was going to be hard. There was no point in riding for 4th place. We can all be guilty of criticising without knowing all the facts. 

The XC consultant at Greenwich is Pierre Michelet - reknowned for forward distances, clever lines and refusal to use pins so it will be interesting to see how much influence he has. The riders faith in him has gone a long way in placating them over the choice of designer.
		
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Ah, I didn't remember all the others who'd gone straight at the water there. I think Blyth did too. Those pesky team orders though... I remember poor Karen Dixon having to crawl around ALL the long routes on Get Smart (one of the very best xc horses of his day) on team orders, and losing out of any chance of an indiv medal, I can't remember which Olympics that was, Seoul I think... or Barcelona? So gutting to watch, poor thing, I dread to think how it must have felt to have to do that with such a fantastic horse under her. 
Must admit I was one of the ones who was outspoken about that certain rider in HK... not at all because he went for the time (it was an amazingly judged and ridden round and so so nearly worked, and I could totally see why he did it) but because, having fallen, he didn't even look at or pat the horse afterwards as he led it away. I'm sure the huge disappointment was the cause but i'm a bit of a Pathetic Pony Patter and notice these things!
I agree that the reasons for the selector's decisions should stay private... it's just that a lot of us were really looking forward to seeing Buzz go round there as pathfinder, I think. But it makes sense to take 5 that can all sparkle, nowadays, with the other teams all so good... no point relying on most of the others to have problems etc!


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## Gamebird (12 June 2012)

Have just watched a wee bit of Barcelona and Sydney and apart from being serious courses (Sydney especially) the OT was >13 minutes. And that's long format, in pretty unfavourable heat conditions. In fact the first rider home in Sydney took nearly 16 minutes


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## TarrSteps (12 June 2012)

oldvic said:



			The XC consultant at Greenwich is Pierre Michelet - reknowned for forward distances, clever lines and refusal to use pins so it will be interesting to see how much influence he has. The riders faith in him has gone a long way in placating them over the choice of designer.
		
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Ah, Gallic rather than Gaelic as has been suggested in other quarters. 


I would agree with the sentiment that selectors have to send people who will be in it to win it.  Gone are the days when you could win a medal with a horse that consistently struggled with dressage or sj, or even one that regularly racks up time penalties.  Of course, no one wants to be 8th if it all goes **** up but, as above, there's no point in being 4th either!

How does funding work in this country?  In smaller countries it makes more sense to send people who will likely still be standing up at the end of the day, as finishing is its own reward and the likelihood of winning is microscopic anyway.  In some ways it's great to have all this choice but in another way . . . .no pressure!


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## kerilli (12 June 2012)

TarrSteps said:



			Ah, Gallic rather than Gaelic as has been suggested in other quarters. 

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My bad, I blame it totally on the strong accent of the person who told me! (and the fact that the next person I asked about it backed up my misinterpretation. drats.)

Gamebird, I know, very serious tests of stamina, but I guess the saving grace may have been that they had much longer galloping sections between fences, so much more time for the horse to get its breathing back right I guess (as they don't breathe in midair etc, iirc)?  Greenwich is going to be at the other extreme, I suspect...


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## SpottedCat (12 June 2012)

TS - funding is incredibly closely linked to medals - sports are given targets, and if they don't meet or exceed them funding is cut. At least that's the way I understand it!


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## oldvic (12 June 2012)

Kerilli - don't forget a horse can pick up on feelings especially when a partnership is well established. It was very close to the finish with fans and cooling facilities where he would be thoroughly checked out of the public gaze. Feelings kept private doesn't mean they don't exist.

TarrSteps - I think the funding is results based. I believe the performance team have to state expectations and the amount of money depends on whether they deliver. For the less experienced nations, completing is The aim and they may well have minimal funding anyway.

The intensity at Greenwich may well be very testing and, like you say, the long courses meant it was much easier to establish a rhythm and the breathing pattern.


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## kerilli (12 June 2012)

Ah yes, I hadn't thought of that. Thankyou. 
I think Greenwich is going to be seriously testing, in a similar way to Beijing, which made some very experienced combinations look somehow less competent than usual.
It'll be a fascinating competition, so many nations are really strong at the moment. Can't wait.


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## CalllyH (12 June 2012)

Why is it illegal to sell olympic tickets on eBay? Sorry slightly off topic but just trying desperately to get some


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## TarrSteps (12 June 2012)

oldvic said:



			Kerilli - don't forget a horse can pick up on feelings especially when a partnership is well established. It was very close to the finish with fans and cooling facilities where he would be thoroughly checked out of the public gaze. Feelings kept private doesn't mean they don't exist.

TarrSteps - I think the funding is results based. I believe the performance team have to state expectations and the amount of money depends on whether they deliver. For the less experienced nations, completing is The aim and they may well have minimal funding anyway.

The intensity at Greenwich may well be very testing and, like you say, the long courses meant it was much easier to establish a rhythm and the breathing pattern.
		
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I think the first paragraph bears repeating again and again and again regarding all sorts of situations with horses.  A great deal is made of how people behave with regard to how they're observed by other people but horses don't care about someone's press.  

I was was wondering if the funding was target based or done on a sliding scale - in other words, if there is a reasonable expectation that a team will win are they completely out of luck if they're 4th?  I don't know how it currently works in say, Canada, but it used to be done on a ranking basis so finishing and being 6th was a better result for the future than potentially not finishing at all and being last.  Of course, the amounts we're talking about are tiny but still, it did mean selectors always had to consider future funding not just the current competition.


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## IsabelleJ (13 June 2012)

CalllyH said:



			Why is it illegal to sell olympic tickets on eBay? Sorry slightly off topic but just trying desperately to get some 

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So that no one can profit from being lucky in the ballot. Which is a bit of a pain.

I am SO ridiculously excited about the Olympics! I can't remember being this involved since Seoul, a very very long time ago!! We are so so lucky to have so many classy partnerships to choose from.

Isabelle


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## cefyl (13 June 2012)

IsabelleJ said:



			So that no one can profit from being lucky in the ballot. Which is a bit of a pain.

I am SO ridiculously excited about the Olympics! I can't remember being this involved since Seoul, a very very long time ago!! We are so so lucky to have so many classy partnerships to choose from.

Isabelle
		
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Yet it is acceptable to the Olympic committee for Thomas Cook as a "sponsor" to resell their ticket allocation as a so called wildly expensive package deal to include a hotel room for one night!


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## Tillypup (13 June 2012)

All this talk of the GB eventing team at the Olympics has clearly got right into my brain (already excited as I'm going to the cross country day!) So much so that I had a dream about it last night, i was actually in the team! YAY, much to lots of people's disgust, the team managed to get Gold and we ended up with a clean sweep of the individual medals too, gold - WFP, Silver - Mary king, Bronze - ME!!!!

I tell you what, it was a dream that I didn't want to end!!!!


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## sar1 (13 June 2012)

Just wondering why as far as I can see there is no mention of Lucy W and Simon Porloe?  If you compare her results with him with those of Zara and HK, Lucy's are better??? 

I do think Zara deserves her place on the team with HK, as do they all to some extent, but not convinced by the wisdom of leaving OB out in favour of MF who is an amazing horse but not back up to himself after his illness last year.

It has been suggested that WFP, MK and TC are on the team as it would be their last olympics.  If this is true this is awful.  That's a bit like saying my granny should be on the team so she gets a chance too lol!!  I know that's a bit extreme, but they should be on the team from merit, not sentiment (which I appreciate WFP and MK are but poss not KC).

Mary has not been right at the top recently, but hopefully that's because she has been told to 'rest' the horses!

That said, I do think we have an amazing team, if not the one that we seem to all think should be it!

My team would have been WFP, MK, NW, LW and ?PiggyF if that run-out really was rider error, although surely olympic selected riders shouldn't be making those sorts of errors????


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## trick123 (13 June 2012)

The selection of Zara has had the desired effect-lots of press coverage!! Being a selector is no easy task having done it on a VERY small scale for Pony Club teams. You see things on a totally different perspective to those on the outside.
However i am deeply dissapointed Nicola wasn't selected, she hasn't done anything wrong, nor has Dodi. I wouldn't want to comment on the team members as they are as I think the proof will be in the pudding on the day, if it goes wrong we can all say 'told you so' or if they bring home gold we can be ecstatic and say how wonderful they all are!!


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## sar1 (13 June 2012)

My team list was meant to say ZP in the team, with PF as reserve, typo!!!


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## kerilli (13 June 2012)

Tillypup said:



			All this talk of the GB eventing team at the Olympics has clearly got right into my brain (already excited as I'm going to the cross country day!) So much so that I had a dream about it last night, i was actually in the team! YAY, much to lots of people's disgust, the team managed to get Gold and we ended up with a clean sweep of the individual medals too, gold - WFP, Silver - Mary king, Bronze - ME!!!!

I tell you what, it was a dream that I didn't want to end!!!!
		
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Ha, I love the fact that even in a very extreme dream your subconscious still couldn't have you beating WFP or Mary!


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## wizoz (13 June 2012)

Sorry, just have to say it makes me laugh that people are suggesting WFP is on the team as it may be his last Olympics, really????? I would say that at this point in time, William is the Worlds No 1 Event rider, I dare you all to disagree 

And for what it's worth, as much as I like Zara, I am going to stand up and say that she is mainly there for the media coverage, sorry Zara 

I would have chosen Nicola and Buzz, most definitely.

Shoot me now


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## kerilli (13 June 2012)

wizoz... WFP has very publicly said that he is/was considering retiring after the Olympics (or after this season), I think that's the only reason people are saying it'll be his last Olympics. Not because he's past it or wouldn't have the horses! 
I'm hoping that because of the Grand Slam moving on to next year's Badders that'll at least make him keep going for 1 more season... at least!


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## teapot (13 June 2012)

He was on British Olympic Dreams on Saturday. Here for anyone interested:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01jykyy/British_Olympic_Dreams_Episode_15/

About 7mins in


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## wizoz (13 June 2012)

K, yes I am fully aware that WFP has been saying this for years but at this moment in time, he would still be no1 selection choice. I think he will keep going for a couple more years yet, he has to, he keeps producing all these 4* horses


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## SpottedCat (13 June 2012)

sar1 said:



			Just wondering why as far as I can see there is no mention of Lucy W and Simon Porloe?  If you compare her results with him with those of Zara and HK, Lucy's are better???
		
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I think reading this article and comparing Nicola's response to Lucy's might give some insight into why Lucy has been passed over again http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ol...utted-to-miss-out-on-eventing-team-place.html


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## kerilli (13 June 2012)

wizoz said:



			K, yes I am fully aware that WFP has been saying this for years but at this moment in time, he would still be no1 selection choice. I think he will keep going for a couple more years yet, he has to, he keeps producing all these 4* horses 

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Yes, of course he'd still be no1 selection choice... IF he still wants to do it! I agree, he's the best in the world at the moment, i can't think of another rider who produces horses all the way from scratch to winning 4*s, year in, year out, as well as taking over catch rides and doing brilliantly on them. 
SC... interesting and not surprising tbh, I agree, I think the problem is perfectly illustrated there. 

Does anyone else think that maybe all those in contention should have been asked to compete at the same few events, rather than some doing Houghton, some doing Bramham, etc? Very difficult to compare performances under different judges, over different courses, and on very different going...


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## SpottedCat (13 June 2012)

kerilli said:



			Does anyone else think that maybe all those in contention should have been asked to compete at the same few events, rather than some doing Houghton, some doing Bramham, etc? Very difficult to compare performances under different judges, over different courses, and on very different going...
		
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If we had a limited pool of people to pick from, they sure, maybe that'd be a good idea. But logistically how on earth would they do that for us?


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## wilde2 (13 June 2012)

Agree with kerilli, I was really surprised that some did not run at Bramham when that was final selection but they must have had good reasons for this obviously - I also wondered if they might wait until after Barbury. (isn't that what Ireland are doing?)
Would be interesting to know if the team would have been any different, had it been a normal season. Either way, we have a fantastic team - and really think they all deserve to do well - and don't envy the selectors decision. I have been playing "fantasy selection" for months now!! Sad that Oslo is off games, but thrilled for the Skinners.
Fingers crossed for Team GB - ridiculously excited already!


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## kerilli (13 June 2012)

SpottedCat said:



			If we had a limited pool of people to pick from, they sure, maybe that'd be a good idea. But logistically how on earth would they do that for us?
		
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But realistically, how many were really in contention? Honestly? Even taking multiple horses into account, I'd say 20 combinations maximum. It just seems weird that they did such wildly different things this spring... e.g. I could argue that if LC hadn't taken Rayef to Saumur, had waited and just done Bramham, on that run she'd prob be in the Team...


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## teapot (13 June 2012)

The US are running all 10 shortlisted at Barbury and deciding afterwards - gives everyone a fair chance to run over here post flight & quarantine.

Wonder what the Aussies and NZ are doing?

Interesting re LC and Rayef - do you think they'd have been picked if the record was blemish free? Given that Team GB comes across as 5 riders who can cope under severe pressure (interestingly noted on more than one international horse related website). Whatever peoples' opinions are of the riders, the combined experience of Mary, William and Tina alone says something! Add in Zara and Piggy and you've just about covered all previous pressure related events going. 

It's a home games, where they're out to get the illusive Olympic Gold or nothing on the back of winning WEG Gold and losing Euros Gold - now who would want that pressure on their backs? Is the pressure of riding at senior level in a team the same as riding for a YR or Junior team? Do YR and Juniors have a WEG/Olympic equivalent or is just Euros?


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## armchair_rider (13 June 2012)

I thought compulsory runs as part of the selection process had been abandoned because the riders didn't think it was fair to force all horses through the same programme? Seem to recall seeing that in MK's autobiography.

I think the selection process must have been seriously compromised by the cancellation of Badminton, you'd have to think that results there would seriously have influenced who got picked - although WFP and MK would probably have been picked even if eliminated on both Badminton rides. If ZP and TC had done well at Badminton I doubt anyone would be complaining about them being picked, equally if NW had done a dressage in low 40s I think she probably would have been picked. Maybe Ruth Edge would have come into consideration given her dressage expertise, or Pippa Funnell who would probably be a good person to have in a contest that requires two rounds of SJing.


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## wizoz (13 June 2012)

Both Pippa's horses that were in for selection were ruled out through injury


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## oldvic (13 June 2012)

kerilli said:



			But realistically, how many were really in contention? Honestly? Even taking multiple horses into account, I'd say 20 combinations maximum. It just seems weird that they did such wildly different things this spring... e.g. I could argue that if LC hadn't taken Rayef to Saumur, had waited and just done Bramham, on that run she'd prob be in the Team...
		
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I agree that there probably were not that many who were realistically in line for the team unless others fall out but I do think that Rayef had to prove himself over a CCI distance across country. With regard to comparing competitions, the selectors are a very experienced group including a top level judge and are aware of the differing standards of course. It is important that the riders use the tracks that suit their horses and fit with their programme best so they arrive in Greenwich confident and ready to perform to their optimum.



teapot said:



			The US are running all 10 shortlisted at Barbury and deciding afterwards - gives everyone a fair chance to run over here post flight & quarantine.

Wonder what the Aussies and NZ are doing?

It's a home games, where they're out to get the illusive Olympic Gold or nothing on the back of winning WEG Gold and losing Euros Gold - now who would want that pressure on their backs? Is the pressure of riding at senior level in a team the same as riding for a YR or Junior team? Do YR and Juniors have a WEG/Olympic equivalent or is just Euros?
		
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I assume any Aussie horses coming from down under will go straight to The Olympics although there is Aachen the week after Barbury. The British based horses are entered at Barbury unless they have others that I've forgotten about!
The Kiwis are going to Barbury except Nereo who goes to Aachen and Toddy's reserve horses.

I would agree that junior/young rider pressure is nothing compared to a senior team although the experience must help.


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## SpottedCat (13 June 2012)

I think LC, despite being BEs golden girl, ruled herself out at the Europeans no matter what happened next. She needed to prove herself at senior level at a senior champs and didn't - no matter what you say about rayef being sore, he wasn't that bad or they wouldn't have even started him. If she'd done well at the Europeans then also done well this season she'd have been a serious contender. I think she'll be there at Rio if she has the horsepower.


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## kerilli (13 June 2012)

i agree about the excuse... he looked absolutely fine at the Euros imho, till they just didn't get the distance right at all to that big corner.
but if they hadn't put a foot wrong this season, double clears all the way and the usual stunning dressages, i think they'd have been included.


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## IsabelleJ (13 June 2012)

cefyl said:



			Yet it is acceptable to the Olympic committee for Thomas Cook as a "sponsor" to resell their ticket allocation as a so called wildly expensive package deal to include a hotel room for one night!
		
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I know, I saw they had tickets for the SJ and was absolutely fuming! Going to the right people then 

Isabelle


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## IsabelleJ (13 June 2012)

As for people saying it could be the last Olympics for some of them - I sincerely hope not, love watching them all. I was so happy when Mark Todd came back (and hope he does really well!)

But, if you were to pick a last Olympics to contest, it couldn't really be a better choice than this one 

Isabelle


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## CalllyH (13 June 2012)

I just dont get if Zara was that great why is there all these articles having to really justify why shes there? You dont even have to bat an eye lid at why the others have been selected. really struggeling with this one. The girl better do us proud.


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## SpottedCat (13 June 2012)

CalllyH said:



			I just dont get if Zara was that great why is there all these articles having to really justify why shes there? You dont even have to bat an eye lid at why the others have been selected. really struggeling with this one. The girl better do us proud.
		
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Because she is the only event rider anyone outside the horsey world has heard of, and because royals, even minor ones, sell papers?! 

I think she's definitely there on merit, and the stories aren't 'justification' they are explanation to a public that if it thinks about horse riding at all, thinks about toffs in red jackets chasing foxes!


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## kerilli (13 June 2012)

^^^ this. unfortunately a lot of people (some horsey people too) still seem to think it's all silver spoon stuff, that someone buys her amazing horses and plonks her on top to win pwizes... ha, really not. i think she does a really fantastic job, on some very tricky horses in the past. Toytown was amazing but he was also a proper hothead in the dressage at times, she worked miracles to coax the sort of performances out of him that she did. tbh her inclusion surprises me less than certain others (esp after her fomr at Bramham)... but it's the non-inclusion of NW and Buzz that surprised us most I think, and it looks as if Zara took their place, when in fact it isn't really quite like that...


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## popsdosh (13 June 2012)

kerilli said:



			^^^ this. unfortunately a lot of people (some horsey people too) still seem to think it's all silver spoon stuff, that someone buys her amazing horses and plonks her on top to win pwizes... ha, really not. i think she does a really fantastic job, on some very tricky horses in the past. Toytown was amazing but he was also a proper hothead in the dressage at times, she worked miracles to coax the sort of performances out of him that she did. tbh her inclusion surprises me less than certain others (esp after her fomr at Bramham)... but it's the non-inclusion of NW and Buzz that surprised us most I think, and it looks as if Zara took their place, when in fact it isn't really quite like that...
		
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I am with you on this one I think there is one popular member of the team who I dont think had justified their place on form but hey ho!
For all you knocking Zara and high Kingdoms inclusion please bear in mind they arguably have a better record than Lionhearts and nobody has questioned that.
I have said before that I feel sorry for NW and OB but I am sure that if not for the fact they may not be suited to Greenwich the selectors will have a good reason for their selections and it is what they have to do,they had to leave people out you cannot make everybody happy.


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## willtowin (13 June 2012)

It's alright everyone, we'll either be thrilled that we're eating our hats when GB win gold, and if they don't we can all complain and say that we wanted Buzz in the first place and we knew best all along


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## CalllyH (13 June 2012)

Your slowly convincing me it's the right decision, slowly but surely........willtowin you have got it in one but then that's the same for any sports just like we are all potential England football team managers at the moment


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## popsdosh (14 June 2012)

luckily its not your head that rolls when it goes wrong.


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