# UNBELIEVABLE!!! RE- people who don't wrap their horses up 'cosy warm'



## Winklepoker (31 January 2012)

Honestly, today is MINUS ... yes thats right.... MINUS 3 where I am and there is a clipped horse with no rug on out in the field. 
There is also a display of unclipped nakedness that, quite frankly, is bloody cruel and ignorant in my book.  
My horse is wearing so many rugs - most of you would lose hair over it!

I lunged last night when it was -1 and my horse kept his thermatex on until he was sufficiently warm enough to have it off.  No way would he be touched with the cold water out of the hose let alone bathed in this weather which i have seen being done also.  

HORSES BEING LEFT OUT ON FROZEN GROUND WITH NO UNFROZEN HAY is REVOLTING.... My manual of horsemanship never taught me to do that!!!!! 

I dont care how natural you like your horses to be, would you shut your child/husband/hamster out in the cold, in the nude and spray them with cold water?? I DONT THINK SO!!!!


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## Amymay (31 January 2012)

Is this horse on your yard?


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## Milanesa (31 January 2012)

What clip does it have? I agree if it is sufficiently clipped it should be rugged to keep it warm.....


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## martlin (31 January 2012)

and breathe! 
Just to say, though, one of my horses has been bathed/washed with cold water from a hose all her life at all times of year and never suffered any damage from that. And we are talking winters much harsher than UK


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## Winklepoker (31 January 2012)

yes and it isnt the first time! Someone else on FB has theres out naked too (she is an idiot but that is a whole other tale!) - I am super precious with mine so perhaps I am biased!


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## 4faults (31 January 2012)

It's days like this I'm glad mine is wrapped up warm in her rugs. Do you know the owners? Or Maybe the owners of the yard if it's not where you stable?


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## Winklepoker (31 January 2012)

Martlin, my opinions of you have gone drastically down hill now  !!


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## BigRed (31 January 2012)

There is nothing wrong with horses living out without rugs.  Properly managed, horses live perfectly well un-rugged.  

I don't agree with piling on rugs.  My horses have a high trace clip and unless it is madly cold, they wear one rug at a time, it is the right rug for the prevailing conditions.  You try wearing a T-shirt, a jumper, a waistcoat, another jacket and a second jacket on top and see how comfortable you are ?

If there are horses out on your yard with no rug, that have a lot of their body hair clipped, you should have word with the owner.


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## Amymay (31 January 2012)

Winklepoker said:



			yes and it isnt the first time! Someone else on FB has theres out naked too (she is an idiot but that is a whole other tale!) - I am super precious with mine so perhaps I am biased!
		
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In that case have a word with the YO.


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## martlin (31 January 2012)

Winklepoker said:



			Martlin, my opinions of you have gone drastically down hill now  !!
		
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Shall I add that I don't actually own a heavy weight turn out rug?


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## RobinHood (31 January 2012)

When you say 'clipped' do you mean bib/chaser clipped or maybe a horse that was fully clipped a few months ago and now grown out?

As for unclipped horses being naked I think you're just wanting to start a big debate


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## Winklepoker (31 January 2012)

BigRed said:



			There is nothing wrong with horses living out without rugs.  Properly managed, horses live perfectly well un-rugged.  

I don't agree with piling on rugs.  My horses have a high trace clip and unless it is madly cold, they wear one rug at a time, it is the right rug for the prevailing conditions.  You try wearing a T-shirt, a jumper, a waistcoat, another jacket and a second jacket on top and see how comfortable you are ?

If there are horses out on your yard with no rug, that have a lot of their body hair clipped, you should have word with the owner.
		
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Yes, I do wear all of those things, and comfort aside, I would rather be warm! - No clipped horse should be out naked without a rug below freezing or am I an IDIOT!!!


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## JFTDWS (31 January 2012)

The rugs I call heavyweight are in fact on the lighter side of mw 

Is it fully clipped? If it is a bib clip or similar I could understand...


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## YasandCrystal (31 January 2012)

I agree a clipped horse should be rugged but imo many people over rug and I hate seeing that - that's probably more cruel than underrugging. At least an under rugged horse can move and warm up, but to see a horse sweating in a full neck on a warm day 

We have had the worst changeable weather ever this winter with it being so warm one minute and freezing the next. I have never had to change rug types so many times as this winter to suit the weather.


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## maggiesmum (31 January 2012)

I agree that the clipped horse ought to be rugged but not necessarily the unclipped one, provided its not wet or overly thin then its coat should be insulating it quite well especially as its hovering around freezing rather than being -10.


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## Jesstickle (31 January 2012)

I'm going to ask too I'm afraid.

What kind of clip? Bib clipped is not the same as full clip all over!


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## martlin (31 January 2012)

Only one of mine is fully clipped this year, she's wearing a 200g Amigo...


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## Winklepoker (31 January 2012)

RobinHood said:



			When you say 'clipped' do you mean bib/chaser clipped or maybe a horse that was fully clipped a few months ago and now grown out?

As for unclipped horses being naked I think you're just wanting to start a big debate 

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There really is no debating that a clipped or thin coated horse would posses a far below ideal body temperature turned out in frezing conditions. - when I say 'clipped' I mean that they have shaved a part of the horses body for unecessary purposes in order for it the freeze its B****x off in the cold with no rug on!

My horse is clipped (Im not saying clipping in general is unnecessary) but he is rugged accordingly to maintain warmth and weight.


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## TigerTail (31 January 2012)

Dear god what an over reaction!

Some horses do not need layers of rugs, clipped or unclipped. Some have a very dense coat which keeps them plenty warm. If the sun is out NO horse needs a damn rug on anyway. 

Also they could be trying to get the horse to lose weight so that it is not obese and at risk of lami come spring etc

It is far worse to over rug, which to be frank sounds like you are doing, than to under rug.

Theyre animals, born and bred to live outside etc etc - not to be trussed up in blankets like replacement children.


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## Winklepoker (31 January 2012)

martlin said:



			Only one of mine is fully clipped this year, she's wearing a 200g Amigo...
		
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I just had a little bit of sick in mouth!


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## *hic* (31 January 2012)

Right, so from what you say it isn't fully clipped then.


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## martlin (31 January 2012)

Winklepoker said:



			I just had a little bit of sick in mouth!
		
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Thanks for sharing! Really wanted to read that !


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## lcharles (31 January 2012)

My two are:

One unclipped except she has naked back legs from an operation, she has a medium stable rug on with a lightweight waterproof rug on top, no necks.

Other one has blanket clip - growing out - with medium stable rug and medium waterproof rug, both rugs have necks.

They have a field with high hedges and trees for shelter, i still feel bad if i leave them out in bad weather but i do know people leaving their horses out with no rugs, not clipped which is fine if they are used to that. My horses are used to being rugged and would probably die of frostbite if they werent!! x I hate being cold....makes me angry!! I dont want my horses angry!! x lol


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## Winklepoker (31 January 2012)

TigerTail said:



			Dear god what an over reaction!

Some horses do not need layers of rugs, clipped or unclipped. Some have a very dense coat which keeps them plenty warm. If the sun is out NO horse needs a damn rug on anyway. 

Also they could be trying to get the horse to lose weight so that it is not obese and at risk of lami come spring etc

It is far worse to over rug, which to be frank sounds like you are doing, than to under rug.

Theyre animals, born and bred to live outside etc etc - not to be trussed up in blankets like replacement children.
		
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You are right... some do have a very dense coats but others have that very dense coat clipped off to 0.8mm!!! - what insulation to they have then? Would you throw your husband outside naked to shed his Christmas love handles then!!! Im not sure which is more wrong in this instance.


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## Mrs B (31 January 2012)

Winklepoker said:



			I just had a little bit of sick in mouth!
		
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Why?

Mine is trace clipped and out today in a 70g with no-fill neck. He has haylage and I'll put a slightly thicker one on tonight, but he's just the right temperature.


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## xspiralx (31 January 2012)

Winklepoker said:



			Yes, I do wear all of those things, and comfort aside, I would rather be warm! - No clipped horse should be out naked without a rug below freezing or am I an IDIOT!!!
		
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You're a human, not a horse.

There's nothing wrong with a clipped horse (even fully clipped) being out naked on a cold day for a short amount of time - if the weather is dry.

It depends entirely on the circumstances - leaving a fully clipped horse shivering in the rain all day with no rug - not good. Clipped horse out for a short time on a  still, dry day - no problem.

Far worse for a horse to be over-rugged and constantly buried in layers and layers, never getting the chance to feel the sun on his back.


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## MerrySherryRider (31 January 2012)

If the horse has a fresh, full clip, then yes, it should be rugged. For a bib or trace clip, maybe not. Is the horse in poor condition ?

 I'm a mimimalist rugger and can't stand seeing horses wearing several layers of rugs pulling on their withers and shoulders.

 Mine are out 24/7. TB, unclipped and only in a rug when it rains heavily. Cob has a full clip growing out and is in a lightweight no fill. Both have ad lib hay and shelter and look very healthy.


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## Winklepoker (31 January 2012)

Sorry Tiger Tail  - I just re-read that... so you are saying that now the sun has come out (it is still -3) that my full clipped, thin skinned, not fat horse should be out in his field NAKED????


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## *hic* (31 January 2012)

Winklepoker said:



			Yes, I do wear all of those things, and comfort aside, I would rather be warm! - No clipped horse should be out naked without a rug below freezing or am I an IDIOT!!!
		
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Well, if the cap fits . . . 

Did anyone see that lovely picture of the chestnut out playing naked in the snow a couple of days ago. I had some lovely ones of my very fine coated veteran playing in the snow until my computer went bang last year. He had a fantastic roll in about -5, sun was out, he was playing and kept himself warm. I'd taken off about 400g of rug to let him do it. He's a real misery guts when he's cold but he was such a happy boy playing that day in the sun.


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## Jesstickle (31 January 2012)

What kind of clip does it actually have?
 You're being very cryptic considering you're so convinced you are right!


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## touchstone (31 January 2012)

In my experience many horses with a partial clip are fine turned out in the cold, it cold/wind/wet that does the damage.

The owners are probably trying to boost the horses metabolism to avoid it being overweight or laminitic, and it may well just be a 'hot' horse that doesn't particularly need rugs.

Best to know the individual horse and the reasoning behind management practices before condemning them I think.


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## *hic* (31 January 2012)

jesstickle said:



			What kind of clip does it actually have?
 You're being very cryptic considering you're so convinced you are right!
		
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I'm not sure whether that's three or four times she's been asked now. I suspect we'll not get an accurate answer, if any answer


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## Winklepoker (31 January 2012)

Obviously everyone is entitled to their opinions and I am by no means preaching (just mildly ranting), I am allowed to over-react at things that I am passionate about and apologies to anyone that feels offended by it!  Now, as an industry professional with several years of experience would say - Each to thier own - but I know what works.


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## TigerTail (31 January 2012)

Yep I am. Over rugging from sept til april causes vit D deficiency, which in some cases can be fatal.

They love having the sun on their backs, and you will tend to find they will find the brightest spot and all have a siesta together.

You cannot compare humans and horses heat/feed/weight wise - people do and this is how we end up with obese/lame/overhot horses.

Ive got a 16 yr old tb in my field, whose owners were originally horrified when i was down taking her MW off every morning thats its dry. They now say she has never looked better, is holding weight (not sweating it off ) and has no  rub marks or need for those god awful stretchy pyjama things people truss them up in.


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## walkers_dream (31 January 2012)

Winklepoker said:



			You are right... some do have a very dense coats but others have that very dense coat clipped off to 0.8mm!!! - what insulation to they have then? Would you throw your husband outside naked to shed his Christmas love handles then!!! Im not sure which is more wrong in this instance.
		
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i would thrive at this sight...and just laugh!

Mine is rugged up, at the moment is in his heavy weight, but normally in this weather would just have a light weight or medium on, only reason he doesnt is because he recently trashed the medium, and the light its too cold.

Granted he is a big fluffy cob, clipped 2 months ago and its all back ten fold, its always a guess weather or not the rug is right. Tbh if he wasnt mostly all white, i would have him naked too!


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## Winklepoker (31 January 2012)

touchstone said:



			In my experience many horses with a partial clip are fine turned out in the cold, it cold/wind/wet that does the damage.

The owners are probably trying to boost the horses metabolism to avoid it being overweight or laminitic, and it may well just be a 'hot' horse that doesn't particularly need rugs.

Best to know the individual horse and the reasoning behind management practices before condemning them I think.
		
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I am certain this isnt the thought process in this case


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## Ranyhyn (31 January 2012)

I want to know what colour the horse is


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## PapaFrita (31 January 2012)

I can't think of a single TB stud that rugs up its broodies and babies. They must be terribly cruel. Someone on HHO (I forget who) has TB youngsters turned out naked way up in Scotland and they always look amazing.


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## Natz88 (31 January 2012)

I think everyone is going to have different opinions on this, me personally wouldn't put my horses out clipped without a rug on. Each to their own as they say. As for the OH, I have been tempted to leave him in the garden naked on a cold night


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## monkeybum13 (31 January 2012)

Dee O'Dorant said:



			I'm not sure whether that's three or four times she's been asked now. I suspect we'll not get an accurate answer, if any answer

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Hehehe.

Think the OP would be horrified at some of the horses in the same barn as mine, blanket clipped and no rugs in the stable.


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## *hic* (31 January 2012)

Blue! 

(That's in response to Boolavogue's question re colour of horse)


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## dressagelove (31 January 2012)

Could I hijack briefly?? 
I want to clip my fine TB, he is in a lightweight and middleweight at the moment, (unclipped) but I want to give him a full clip, do you think it is too cold to clip him now then? You all seem to think horses are very capable of keeping themselves warm... and he does seem fairly toasty at the moment. 
It seems so tricky of finding the line between warm enough and too warm!....


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## Winklepoker (31 January 2012)

The horse has a modified clip, which has left a patch over his rump, so from the wither down to what seems to turn into a blanket clip at the back.  He would condition score in on the poor side of moderate and the owners cannot afford the extra hay/food to supplement this.


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## dressagelove (31 January 2012)

Winklepoker said:



			The horse has a modified clip, which has left a patch over his rump, so from the wither down to what seems to turn into a blanket clip at the back.  He would condition score in on the poor side of moderate and the owners cannot afford the extra hay/food to supplement this.
		
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Maybe they can't afford a rug either


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## ClassicG&T (31 January 2012)

Mines got 2 rugs on. Hes got a blanket clip (and also an old full clip growing in) and is always rugged up- and hes a Fell pony! I feel sorry for some horses with no rugs (when its very cold ie. below 4 degrees) , even a 100/200 would be better than nothing


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## Amymay (31 January 2012)

Winklepoker said:



			The horse has a modified clip, which has left a patch over his rump, so from the wither down to what seems to turn into a blanket clip at the back.  He would condition score in on the poor side of moderate and the owners cannot afford the extra hay/food to supplement this.
		
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So what has the the YO said about the condition of the horse and the fact that it's not rugged??

(By the way, I'm with you all the way on this one).


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## ILuvCowparsely (31 January 2012)

dressagelove said:



			Maybe they can't afford a rug either 

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then maybe they should not have clipped the horse, as they must have  either paid some one to clip it or   are able to afford clippers of their own , thus they should be able to afford a rug.



martlin said:



			and breathe! 
Just to say, though, one of my horses has been bathed/washed with cold water from a hose all her life at all times of year and never suffered any damage from that. And we are talking winters much harsher than UK 

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 More often than not the damage shows up later in life  .
 Arthritis shows up  when your older I should know  years of having my hands in cold buckets-  troughs only shows up now. Most likely be the same for the horse.

 Mine are wrapped up accordingly   to 3 factors I take into consideration:

 A :   the weather
 B :   how warm / cold the horse is
C :    type of clip

 If I check and horses is warm then fine if he is luke warm or cold i up their rugs.

 I find to many people rug up heavy when   weather is cold  and not how the horse is.


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## monkeybum13 (31 January 2012)

Leviathan said:



			then maybe they should not have clipped the horse, as they must have  either paid some one to clip it or   are able to afford clippers of their own , thus they should be able to afford a rug.
		
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That's a rather silly assumption to make.


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## Turitea (31 January 2012)

Horses are not humans, stop treating them like they were. Drives me mad when people say "I am cold, hence my horse has to be cold too". What do they teach you over there?


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## dressagelove (31 January 2012)

Leviathan said:



			then maybe they should not have clipped the horse, as they must have  either paid some one to clip it or   are able to afford clippers of their own , thus they should be able to afford a rug.
		
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haha I was only kidding, winklepoker left that one wide open for a joke, so I inserted one


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## Marydoll (31 January 2012)

There is never going to be universal agreement on rugging or not depending on your view. As long as youre happy with what youre doing with yours, really, what others do with theirs is up to them.
I think there are faults on both sides, to see horses over rugged on mild days is annoying, to see it when the suns blazing is cruel.( no im not talking about fly rugs ).
Also to see horses who are shivering in the cold and wet in poor condition with no natural shelter is awful, im not talking about the hardies with fuzzy coats who can cope very well.or the well covered guys who manage just fine, but SOME horses do need rugs on, especially of theyre on exposed land with poor shelter from the elements or are older and not holding condition as well as they used to.
As for rugging a horse whose clipped, id expect the owners to know if their part clipped horse needed a rug, but IMO if you fully clip your horse, removing their winter coat you should rug appropriate to the conditions.
At the end of the day people will do what they do with their horses, and unless you own them, you have no say.


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## Amymay (31 January 2012)

Turitea said:



			Horses are not humans, stop treating them like they were. Drives me mad when people say "I am cold, hence my horse has to be cold too". What do they teach you over there? 

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Common sense, mainly.

If you clip the hair off an animal (that is programmed to grow longer and denser hair during the winter months to offer protection from the elements), then it is incumbent upon us to ensure that that protective layer is replaced by something else.

Ergo, you put a rug on.

Simples


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## ISHmad (31 January 2012)

If you know for a fact that this horse is too cold and is struggling why don't you, your YO, YM or another horse lover dig out a warmer rug to put on the horse. And the YO or YM talk to the owner about the situation.

I'm one of the cruel ones as our native lives out unrugged 24/7 with lots of shelter and able to go in and out of his stable as he pleases. No rug I put on him would be better than the superb insulation he has grown for himself. My other horses are rugged lightly, none are clipped.


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## Winklepoker (31 January 2012)

They did indeed pay someone, I would agree with the financial comment also but not for me to assume as I can only see their horse and not their bank statements.  

Amymay, YO doesnt get involved, it is strictly DIY - 

I reiterate again, that these are purely my humble opinions.


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## monkeybum13 (31 January 2012)

Have you actually said anything to the owners in 'real life'? Or are you just moaning on a forum that will not have any impact on how the horses are treated?


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## Biscuit (31 January 2012)

I admit I haven't read the whole thread. 

I just wanted to say that minus 3 is not very cold in the grand scheme of things. People have horses in countries with cold winters and they do just fine. That being said, wet and cold/wind is not a good combination.

In other countries, unclipped horses live out in a lot colder than minus 3 but would usually have ad lib hay and access to shelter. 

Clipped horses would not be as resilient but it also depends on how long they are out for and what the weather is like. A couple of hours on a sunny minus 3 day may be a lot better than out in  +3 and freezing rain, since they are less "water resistant" when clipped.


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## *hic* (31 January 2012)

Stop, wait, I have a solution: HHO meetup with representatives from all factions to assess actual body temperature of horse, whether it looks cold and miserable, and if so what should be done. Then repair to pub for warming drinks by hot fire, after sufficient quantity of which everyone will have forgotten their differences - or passed out.

*dreams*


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## martlin (31 January 2012)

Leviathan said:



			More often than not the damage shows up later in life  .
 Arthritis shows up  when your older I should know  years of having my hands in cold buckets-  troughs only shows up now. Most likely be the same for the horse.
		
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She's 18, with a LOT of highish level mileage on her clock and apart from a fairly traumatic injury to her stifle, is sound as a pound... she's a tough sort, bred for the job.


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## JFTDWS (31 January 2012)

amymay said:



			Common sense, mainly.

If you clip the hair off an animal (that is programmed to grow longer and denser hair during the winter months to offer protection from the elements), then it is incumbent upon us to ensure that that protective layer is replaced by something else.

Ergo, you put a rug on.

Simples 

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It's not common sense to put a HW rug on a pony with a thick coat who is merely bib clipped, though...  It is hardly common sense to presume that because a human is cold, a horse will be too.  It is common sense to look at the individual animal and assess how much you've clipped off, how well it's holding condition, how much natural protection remains.  I don't think Turitea was promoting leaving a fine, fully clipped, shivering horse out in sub zero temperatures, tbf...


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## acw295 (31 January 2012)

Mine's got all her body hair off (head and legs on) and is only in 200g PE rug (with neck in field, neck off in stable), she sweats in anything heavier! I had her in a 300g but she had sweat rash so had to downgrade.

And she is out for 14hrs in a frozen field with no hay at all and she is very well covered (has ad lib hay in stbale at night). She gets balancer and a bit of low calorie chaff and that's it. She is very much alive and kicking on this 

I think if they have more than a bib/trace then they need some rugging but I hate over-rugging. Horses should not feel toasty - just nicely warm IMO.


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## Ranyhyn (31 January 2012)

I think it's a little null and void to talk about unclipped horses naked, unclipped horse in this that and t'other.
OP isn't talking about an unclipped horse... so it has no bearing. If anyone has their blanket clipped-esque horses out naked now, those are worth hearing from!!

However agree the best course of action is actually speaking to someone and not us


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## Amymay (31 January 2012)

Winklepoker said:



			Amymay, YO doesnt get involved, it is strictly DIY -
		
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They have no choice, as they have a duty of care.

I would be on the phone to them today and insist they take some sort of action.


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## Amymay (31 January 2012)

ISHmad said:



			I'm one of the cruel ones as our native lives out unrugged 24/7 with lots of shelter and able to go in and out of his stable as he pleases. No rug I put on him would be better than the superb insulation he has grown for himself. My other horses are rugged lightly, none are clipped.
		
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This is relevant because??


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## Paint Me Proud (31 January 2012)

There are a couple on our yard out naked and i think it's fine, they dont seem cold or unhappy.
Chico isnt clipped but has a very fine coat and he is only in a MW rug, if the temperature drops below -10 he will get his HW but i wont put any layer etc under it as they just arent necessary. 
Horses are much hardier than we give them credit for so i try my best not to over rug.


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## Amymay (31 January 2012)

JFTD said:



			It's not common sense to put a HW rug on a pony with a thick coat who is merely bib clipped, though...  It is hardly common sense to presume that because a human is cold, a horse will be too.  It is common sense to look at the individual animal and assess how much you've clipped off, how well it's holding condition, how much natural protection remains.  I don't think Turitea was promoting leaving a fine, fully clipped, shivering horse out in sub zero temperatures, tbf...
		
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I agree with all you've posted, with the exception of Turitea's post.  That's exactly how I read it.


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## Shantara (31 January 2012)

I don't want to get involved too much, but I've just popped in to say that all horses are different.

There's one TB on the yard, who shivvers even when unclipped and he's still chilly with one rug on, so he has 2. The other TB doesn't get as cold, so just has one, even though his hair is finer and he's skinnier. 

For the record, I often wear: Thermal vest, t-shirt, 3 hoodies and a coat  I get VERY cold!


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## ISHmad (31 January 2012)

Amymay it is relevant because of OPs comments about cruel nakedness of an unclipped horse as well as a clipped horse. Not that I really need to explain myself to you if you had read the first post fully.


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## Amymay (31 January 2012)

Annielusian said:



			I don't want to get involved too much, but I've just popped in to say that all horses are different.

There's one TB on the yard, who shivvers even when unclipped and he's still chilly with one rug on, so he has 2. The other TB doesn't get as cold, so just has one, even though his hair is finer and he's skinnier. 

For the record, I often wear: Thermal vest, t-shirt, 3 hoodies and a coat  I get VERY cold!
		
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I don't see what the relevance is to the original post.....


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## ester (31 January 2012)

Winklepoker said:



			There is also a display of unclipped nakedness that, quite frankly, is bloody cruel and ignorant in my book.
		
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BV the OP did mention an  unclipped unrugged horse in the first post  hence why peeps have mentioned it


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## Amymay (31 January 2012)

deleted.


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## miss_c (31 January 2012)

Unclipped youngster - naked
Full clipped welsh d (including legs out) - JUST gone into heavyweights. 

Both thriving and doing well. If the weather is anything like it is here, I would put horses with a smaller type of clip out naked today. There's no wind or rain and the sun is out.


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## Winklepoker (31 January 2012)

I over rug my horse because it makes me happy to know that he is roasting! JEEZ!

I clip him out fully when he doesnt really need it 

I also have had him in a set of draw reins and he NEVER EVER hacks out!

People do things differently, other people rant freely about all sorts of things - I just chose this one today  nice to see HHO still have a good ole' fire burning in its belly though!


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## touchstone (31 January 2012)

Winklepoker said:



			The horse has a modified clip, which has left a patch over his rump, so from the wither down to what seems to turn into a blanket clip at the back.  He would condition score in on the poor side of moderate and the owners cannot afford the extra hay/food to supplement this.
		
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Which puts a different spin on it and  the horse would probably benefit from rugging and being fed properly.


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## Amymay (31 January 2012)

Let us know how you get on the YO, Winklepoker, as obviously some action needs to be taken.


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## Ranyhyn (31 January 2012)

ISHmad said:



			Amymay it is relevant because of OPs comments about cruel nakedness of an unclipped horse as well as a clipped horse. Not that I really need to explain myself to you if you had read the first post fully.
		
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My apologies too I hadn't noticed the snuck in comment about the unclipped one too!
OP, I really think if your morals run all that deep, you'll go to yard owner.  Its crap that its "diy" they still have a duty of care to the animals kept on their land.  So if I were you  I'd remind them of that and go get them to make these owners lives a nightmare and get them to explain themselves to YO and then maybe he can explain to you.


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## JFTDWS (31 January 2012)

Amymay, I read turitea's post in the context of these...



Winklepoker said:



			I dont care how natural you like your horses to be, would you shut your child/husband/hamster out in the cold, in the nude and spray them with cold water?? I DONT THINK SO!!!!
		
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Winklepoker said:



			Would you throw your husband outside naked to shed his Christmas love handles then!!!
		
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xspiralx said:



			You're a human, not a horse.
		
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Turitea said:



			Horses are not humans, stop treating them like they were. Drives me mad when people say "I am cold, hence my horse has to be cold too". What do they teach you over there? 

Click to expand...

Had turitea not posted that, I might have!  Hence my post.  However, if turitea would like to come and correct my interpretation and your interpretation is closer to their intentions, you have my apologies and I shall stalk away quietly


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## Winklepoker (31 January 2012)

and my horse IS my child... honestly you cruel lot!


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## Firewell (31 January 2012)

Personally I wouldn't ever clip a horse for work and then not rug it. What we have taken away we must then provide, especially on a blood horse.
Can totally understand natives being kept out without rugs when unclipped. Hate seeing fat hairy natives rugged. However any horse bred for sport, especially clipped that hasn't evolved to live on welsh hills needs to be rugged. End of.
Even if I turned my TB away for the winter and he was unclipped I would still put a good winter rug on him. He's used to wearing rugs, he doesn't grow the coat or produce the oils to keep himself sufficiently warm in minus temps. Hairy ponies, cobs and youngstock - totally different kettles of fish.


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## caterpillar (31 January 2012)

Winklepoker said:



			I over rug my horse because it makes me happy *to know that he is roasting!* JEEZ!!
		
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Horses should NOT be 'roasting'.


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## BeckyCandy (31 January 2012)

Mine are out naked im not cruel. 'my oldie is rugged my two youngsters are naked they are welsh D's bred to survive on the side of a mountain, they have plenty of hay, had a warm breakfast this morning and have shelter that they aren't standing in. I'm not ignorant or cruel they just don't need rugs!


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## martlin (31 January 2012)

Winklepoker said:



			and my horse IS my child... honestly you cruel lot!
		
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Was it a difficult birth?


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## ILuvCowparsely (31 January 2012)

monkeybum13 said:



			That's a rather silly assumption to make.
		
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And why is that???


 I don't think so your entitle to your opinion. 

 I have known too many novices want to  clip and not realizing they need to put rugs on. When  you tell them they say Cant afford a rug!
 I am not dissing those who don't rug  with like a bib clip  I am referring to those who clip out .


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## littlemisslauren (31 January 2012)

We have 18 horses of varying types. 6 of these are clipped, 2 clipped horses live out. 

Nothing is wearing more than ONE mw rug. We took necks off all rugs because they were too warm. 

We have one very fine pony out naked every day. He is very fat, very furry and does not need a rug. 

One of the clipped boys that lives out is a rug houdini, once he is out of his rug he loves to have a good roll and scratch followed by a sunbathe! He refuses to be caught once naked too. 

Stable rugs are all LW. 

Personally I think if you stick your hand in a horses rug and they feel really warm then they are too warm.

I hate over rugging, creates too many pressure points IMO. Buy a bigger rug.


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## Firewell (31 January 2012)

Winklepoker said:



			I over rug my horse because it makes me happy to know that he is roasting! JEEZ!

I clip him out fully when he doesnt really need it 

I also have had him in a set of draw reins and he NEVER EVER hacks out!

People do things differently, other people rant freely about all sorts of things - I just chose this one today  nice to see HHO still have a good ole' fire burning in its belly though!
		
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Hee hee! I must say your poor horse looks throughly unhappy and neglected in your signature, never seen one look so thin, hot and miserable , you are a MEAN MEAN mummy!


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## Amymay (31 January 2012)

caterpillar said:



			Horses should NOT be 'roasting'.
		
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I think you can take particular comment well tongue in cheek, Caterpillar


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## nikCscott (31 January 2012)

Oh dear 

Mine is in his medium turnout with a full clip as he hates getting hot and if over rugged he starts fretting and hooning around which obviously make things worse.

They also have no hay out- they will only be out for 4 hours today and usually 6 max.

He will be in his heavyweight for the rest of the week though- looking at the forecast.


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## caterpillar (31 January 2012)

amymay said:



			I think you can tat particular comment well tongue in cheek, Caterpillar

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I prefer them grilled in wholemeal bread


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## Marydoll (31 January 2012)

martlin said:



			Was it a difficult birth?  

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 lol


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## martlin (31 January 2012)

caterpillar said:



			I prefer them grilled in wholemeal bread 

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That would be one MASSIVE sandwich


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## Tinseltoes (31 January 2012)

TigerTail said:



			Dear god what an over reaction!

Some horses do not need layers of rugs, clipped or unclipped. Some have a very dense coat which keeps them plenty warm. If the sun is out NO horse needs a damn rug on anyway. 

Also they could be trying to get the horse to lose weight so that it is not obese and at risk of lami come spring etc

It is far worse to over rug, which to be frank sounds like you are doing, than to under rug.

Theyre animals, born and bred to live outside etc etc - not to be trussed up in blankets like replacement children.
		
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Far worse for a horse to be over-rugged and constantly buried in layers and layers, never getting the chance to feel the sun on his back.

Agreed. OP you are over rugging your poor horse,its crueler than leaving a clipped horse out naked!!!!!!!


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## Winklepoker (31 January 2012)

caterpillar said:



			Horses should NOT be 'roasting'.
		
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*note to self.. I must beware of my use of descriptives* I would like to replace roasting with.... eeeerm....... 'of sufficient temperature'


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## sula (31 January 2012)

Classic!  My yo told me yesterday that one of the other liveries was `horrified` that I don`t rug my boy.  He`s a big old hairy Highland with a coat like a yeti and is not at all unhappy.  She was equally horrified that I was riding him in the rain without an exercise sheet so she is going to dig some out for me!  Bless! Fact is, I was hoping the rain might clean him up a bit!  She told the yo that she can`t believe I have nothing for him.  I take great exception to that; he does, in fact, have two new rugs, a stable and a LW TO rug, both in pristine condition and both still in their plastic wrapping!  

I know she means well


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## ILuvCowparsely (31 January 2012)

There are many places I check before rugging  up.


 One slide my hand  under rug over the shoulder area then across the back, and of cause the ears .

 my horses  have  
4 oz
7oz
12 oz
14 oz rugs depending on the  Weather
 They only have max 2 rugs at a time . I don't believe in weighing down a horses with + 3 rugs


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## Winklepoker (31 January 2012)

And yes Martlin - the birth was horrendous as was the pregnancy! - and the nappies we got through... Christ almighty...!


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## biggingerpony (31 January 2012)

My mare is out 24/7 being a wimpy TB she gets next to no winter coat, never had to clip her, But she has the equivilant coat of a full clip!! (Compared to the native in the field next to her!) At the moment she gets a medium weight with hood with a fleece underneath, and the fleece gets removed in the day. 

Shes looking brill from it! First time out 24/7 and shes looking on the podgy side! Has plenty of grass, and hay when its frozen. I think people do have a tendency to mollycoddle there horses (I am also guilty of it) But they are tougher than you think!!


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## tonitot (31 January 2012)

I agree that a fully clipped horse should be rugged but I think unclipped horses are normally okay without rugs. Personally I don't think I'd be able to bring myself to have my TB naked if she were unclipped (she has a kind of blanket clip ans.wears a heavyweight with a neck) purely because I'd feel bad. However if I had a big fat cob who didn't get cold I think I'd leave it naked so long as it wasn't raining or very windy. I guess it's personal opinion.


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## Hippona (31 January 2012)

Winklepoker said:



			The horse has a modified clip, which has left a patch over his rump, so from the wither down to what seems to turn into a blanket clip at the back.  He would condition score in on the poor side of moderate and the owners cannot afford the extra hay/food to supplement this.
		
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Well.....thats a totally different issue to hairy unclipped natives out at -3 They're designed for these conditions - put your hand under my 2 natives coats- they're easily warm enough.


Over-rugging is as cruel as under-rugging when clipped/veteran/poor condition. Neither is good.

_appropriate rugging_ is whats necessary........


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## ILuvCowparsely (31 January 2012)

MY  PO is

 Get a decent thick rug  for bad times rather than 4 thin ones which weigh horse down.

 One of my livereis usually rugs up with 5 layers  ,as soon as rugs changed  she scratches and chews herself causing sores. all over.

 ( yes vet has checked her nothing showed up ).

 This year she is putting less layers and horse chewing less.

   A good thick  rug ( these days   not heavy in weight only in togs ) Means more air circulating so horse more comfortable and  not as itchy.


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## Hippona (31 January 2012)

Winklepoker said:



			*note to self.. I must beware of my use of descriptives* I would like to replace roasting with.... eeeerm....... 'of sufficient temperature'
		
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Eeerm.....my 3 horses are of ''sufficient temperature''.....only one of them has a rug on.


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## Marydoll (31 January 2012)

Leviathan said:



			"One of my livereis usually rugs up with 5 layers. \as soon as rugs changed  she scratches and chews herself causing sores. "

i find that as distressing as a thin wet cold shivering horse
		
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## Irishbabygirl (31 January 2012)

sula said:



			Classic!  My yo told me yesterday that one of the other liveries was `horrified` that I don`t rug my boy.  He`s a big old hairy Highland with a coat like a yeti and is not at all unhappy.  She was equally horrified that I was riding him in the rain without an exercise sheet so she is going to dig some out for me!  Bless! Fact is, I was hoping the rain might clean him up a bit!  She told the yo that she can`t believe I have nothing for him.  I take great exception to that; he does, in fact, have two new rugs, a stable and a LW TO rug, both in pristine condition and both still in their plastic wrapping!  

I know she means well  

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Lol! Whoever heard of rugging a Highland pony?! The Highland at our yard went out in a LW when it rained a few weeks ago - she came in dripping with sweat and very uncomfortable! Owner didn't do that again! (She has a low trace BTW and never wears a rug!)


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## Tinseltoes (31 January 2012)

There are thousands of horses worldwide NOT rugged up.Its the owners choice and not yours OP.


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## ILuvCowparsely (31 January 2012)

so does she .  They have done all the test don't know why the mare is so itchy . she bathes the areas and puts creme on , allot of it is in the coat change time , but every time u remove a rug the has a chew.
 Apparently she has  done this for years .


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## Twiglet (31 January 2012)

I have the opposite problem - have to keep telling the full livery yard I'm at to stop over-rugging my unclipped hot-bodded Irish horse. He's regularly sweating in his rugs when I get there to ride in the evenings, it drives me potty.


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## Amymay (31 January 2012)

Tinseltoes said:



			There are thousands of horses worldwide NOT rugged up.Its the owners choice and not yours OP.
		
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So are you saying, Tinseltoes, that the horse posted about in the original post, that is clipped, poor and unrugged should be of no concern to the OP??


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## Winklepoker (31 January 2012)

Tinseltoes said:



			There are thousands of horses worldwide NOT rugged up.Its the owners choice and not yours OP.
		
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I am not saying that it is my choice, I am just saying that I think it is a wrong choice given the circumstances


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## haffy1983 (31 January 2012)

my Haflinger has a blanket clip and has 1 stable rug on and 1 turnout on, medium weight (no neck as it rubs his mane bald!!) and with his big thick haffy mane he doesnt need it. Last winter he lived out so wore two rugs when it got freezing. Due to circumstances (baby on the way) we moved onto a full livery yard, which is now why he comes in at night. When he was living out, he still competed most weekends (BD) and was as healthy and happy as can be!! Ive noticed he sweats rather than gets cold so I tend not to mollycoddle him, due to his breed as he has come over from austria in freezing conditions and thick snow!! I see it as what I clip off i replace with rugs.

He never feels cold under his rugs and altho I understand people rugging up less hardy breeds (tbs arabs etc), I wouldnt be tempted to over rug more hardy types.


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## Ibblebibble (31 January 2012)

nice one winklepoker this lot will now go on debating the rights and wrongs of rugging until the cows come home................. should the cows be rugged too do you think  think you may need to make it a bit more obvious you were winding them up before someone self combusts


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## Winklepoker (31 January 2012)

Ibs, Just 5 more minutes... please!

Anyway, I would layer at least 5 rugs so my horse is hot enough not to run around and potentially lose a shoe and churn up his field.  the naked ones are always losing shoes and the fields are messy from them moving about!


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## Winklepoker (31 January 2012)

and yes of course, my dad is a farmer and all of his cows are in 450gs with full necks!


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## martlin (31 January 2012)

Why not just hobble him? He won't be able to churn up the field and won't be wasting precious energy on running around.


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## Tinseltoes (31 January 2012)

amymay said:



			So are you saying, Tinseltoes, that the horse posted about in the original post, that is clipped, poor and unrugged should be of no concern to the OP??
		
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I just think instead of whining in here she should tell the owners!!


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## martlin (31 January 2012)

Winklepoker said:



			and yes of course, my dad is a farmer and all of his cows are in 450gs with full necks!
		
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Waaaay too obvious :/


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## Tinseltoes (31 January 2012)

Winklepoker said:



			I am not saying that it is my choice, I am just saying that I think it is a wrong choice given the circumstances
		
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Tell the owner or if you have a spare rug offer it to them.


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## ILuvCowparsely (31 January 2012)

Winklepoker said:



			Ibs, Just 5 more minutes... please!

Anyway, I would layer at least 5 rugs so my horse is hot enough not to run around and potentially lose a shoe and churn up his field.  the naked ones are always losing shoes and the fields are messy from them moving about!
		
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 5 layers sheesh  if they are all stable rugs then you will find the heat is only under the 1st rugs the others the air is cold so you are adding weight not warmth .

 I would rather buy 1    12/ 14 oz rugs so my horse is warm and not carrying the weight of 5 rugs like a ruck sack on his back


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## Winklepoker (31 January 2012)

Right the bottom line is.. I came on here to have a good old whinge like every bugger else does... I wont be going to the owner, if their horse keels over and dies on their heads be it, oh and Martlin... how much are hobbles?


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## PolarSkye (31 January 2012)

Dee O'Dorant said:



			Stop, wait, I have a solution: HHO meetup with representatives from all factions to assess actual body temperature of horse, whether it looks cold and miserable, and if so what should be done. Then repair to pub for warming drinks by hot fire, after sufficient quantity of which everyone will have forgotten their differences - or passed out.

*dreams*
		
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I'm in.

P


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## Winklepoker (31 January 2012)

Leviathan said:





 5 layers sheesh  if they are all stable rugs then you will find the heat is only under the 1st rugs the others the air is cold so you are adding weight not warmth .

 I would rather buy 1    12/ 14 oz rugs so my horse is warm and not carrying the weight of 5 rugs like a ruck sack on his back
		
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My horse happens to look good in his layered effect rucksack thanks! the only Oz I am familiar with had me wearing red shoes and carrying a little dog!


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## ILuvCowparsely (31 January 2012)

Winklepoker said:



			Right the bottom line is.. I came on here to have a good old whinge like every bugger else does... I wont be going to the owner, if their horse keels over and dies on their heads be it, oh and Martlin... how much are hobbles?
		
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 this should answer your question lol
http://www.totally-tack.co.uk/acatalog/hobbles.html

 mind you my boys hobbles are sheepskin inside. Funny when he wears them all you hear is tinkle tinkle  like a ghost  rattling his chains


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## Winklepoker (31 January 2012)

Leather and Chrome... I was hoping for something a bit more sturdy like chains?


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## martlin (31 January 2012)

Winklepoker said:



			Right the bottom line is.. I came on here to have a good old whinge like every bugger else does... I wont be going to the owner, if their horse keels over and dies on their heads be it, oh and Martlin... how much are hobbles?
		
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No point spending money, make some out of baler twine and some vetwrap - it'll be fine. OR, you could nail his feet to the ground, a bit permanent, but a solution nonetheless and it will save you on fencing.


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## tonitot (31 January 2012)

Haha I admit I didn't realise this was a wind up, it was so obvious


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## patchwork puzzle (31 January 2012)

Ha ha, love it  What a great way to get the fires burning on such a cold day


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## Winklepoker (31 January 2012)

look what happens when you all get a little too big for your boots... I love HHO, insightful and entertaining


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## ILuvCowparsely (31 January 2012)

Winklepoker said:



			Leather and Chrome... I was hoping for something a bit more sturdy like chains?
		
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well these are my boys    havent been used a few months so need a damn good clean  they are leather and chain







  why not bolt his feet to 2 curved pieces of wood, then  he can rock on the spot  backwards and forwards without   charging round


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## Winklepoker (31 January 2012)

No there definitely arent enough rusty spikes on those Lev sorry  !


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## RolyPolyPony (31 January 2012)

My horse is out with a MW stable rug and HW turnout rug on (he is 26 and really feels the cold) but shoot me now, my pony is out naked!  I dont even own a rug for her!


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## mymare (31 January 2012)

Winklepoker said:



			Honestly, today is MINUS ... yes thats right.... MINUS 3 where I am and there is a clipped horse with no rug on out in the field. 
There is also a display of unclipped nakedness that, quite frankly, is bloody cruel and ignorant in my book.  



PMSL!  Well you better report me then, my two ponies are out 24/7 in the nuddy, and the forecast is -10 up here by the weekend. 



My horse is wearing so many rugs - most of you would lose hair over it!


Poor thing.  Why?



My manual of horsemanship never taught me to do that!!!!! 



Lmfao!!   



I dont care how natural you like your horses to be, would you shut your child/husband/hamster out in the cold, in the nude and spray them with cold water?? I DONT THINK SO!!!!
		
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Definitely the husband, yes.  The children?  Depends on their behaviour.  We don't own a hamster, so can't answer that one.  But ponies, yes.  Last time I looked they were STILL ponies, not humans or hamsters.


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## mymare (31 January 2012)

What with this and the cat thingy on FB this morning, you've really brightened my day!


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## Amymay (31 January 2012)

Tinseltoes said:



			I just think instead of whining in here she should tell the owners!!
		
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Ah, ok.

Well not much point in having a forum then I suppose.

And Is she whining, or expressing a concern - which in turn has engendered a lively debate?

I don't suppose we'll see very much of you on here from now on then if you feel the forum has no use.

Byee.


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## Tinseltoes (31 January 2012)

Oh Im NOT going anywhere.I will come and go as I please.


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## scarymare (31 January 2012)

Right, I'm taking it this has got to be a wind up?

Mine have been out naked in Aberdeenshire last two winters (and it was really cold).  Have shelter and unlimited haylage (good stuff too).  All lived, all came out of the winter fat.

Its really really dangerous to rug foals, younsters and mares who are feeding.  its also dangerous to rug other horses where the above are in shared fields.  Just imagine a foal/weanling getting caught in a fillet string/leg strap of another horse when playing or even just caught in their own rugs.  They don't have the physical weight to break the straps.  Foals getting hung on mum's rugs whilst feeding is not uncommon.

Still, rant over, has to be a wind up.  I'm going back to my A level marking now.....


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## Tinseltoes (31 January 2012)

scarymare said:



			Right, I'm taking it this has got to be a wind up?

Mine have been out naked in Aberdeenshire last two winters (and it was really cold).  Have shelter and unlimited haylage (good stuff too).  All lived, all came out of the winter fat.

Its really really dangerous to rug foals, younsters and mares who are feeding.  its also dangerous to rug other horses where the above are in shared fields.  Just imagine a foal/weanling getting caught in a fillet string/leg strap of another horse when playing or even just caught in their own rugs.  They don't have the physical weight to break the straps.  Foals getting hung on mum's rugs whilst feeding is not uncommon.

Still, rant over, has to be a wind up.  I'm going back to my A level marking now.....

Click to expand...

Well said.


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## Amymay (31 January 2012)

Tinseltoes said:



			Oh Im NOT going anywhere.I will come and go as I please.
		
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But surely this forum has absolutely no value for you as 90% of the posts are whining ones in one way or another.  Why would you want to post


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## Amymay (31 January 2012)

scarymare said:



			Right, I'm taking it this has got to be a wind up?
		
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Why do you think this post is a wind up?

OP was about a clipped horse, out rugless, and the OP's concerns over this.


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## RobinHood (31 January 2012)

Winklepoker said:



			There is also a display of unclipped nakedness that, quite frankly, is bloody cruel and ignorant in my book.
		
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amymay I think this is why people think it's a windup. OP was talking about unclipped horses as well as the clipped one.


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## scarymare (31 January 2012)

amymay said:



			Why do you think this post is a wind up?

OP was about a clipped horse, out rugless, and the OP's concerns over this.
		
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I must admit I do hate reading posters in here advocating clipping horses and not rugging to control their weight - shivering it off or some such nonsense.  Sounded to me like the OP was decrying all of us who (in my case for very good reason) don't rug.  My only clipped one is actually rugged.  My tackroom is stuffed full of very expensive rugs too, but since I got 'rug OCD' I must admit they look so much better (my neighbour is also going rugless next year having seen mine - barefooter too though)

Perhaps I misread the tone of the post.  I am marking an awful lot of very opinionated essays atm?


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## Serephin (31 January 2012)

I hope this is a windup, otherwise the OP is in need of a fluffy bunny to cuddle pronto!


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## Amymay (31 January 2012)

RobinHood said:



			amymay I think this is why people think it's a windup. OP was talking about unclipped horses as well as the clipped one.
		
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Yes, that's true.  But essentially it was the clipped unruged horse that was the primary concern.  And rightly so.


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## Winklepoker (31 January 2012)

TBH whether it was or wasnt meant in jest, surely we are all entitled to have our own beliefs and concerns and the choice to voice them?  I do believe that clipped horses should be rugged to provide the warmth that you, as the clipper, have taken away.  Dont rug your scraggy cobs and natives if you dont want to, they are covered in revolting hair and mane anyway  Just saying, it is freedom of speech and choices.


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## Tinsel Trouble (31 January 2012)

caterpillar said:



			Horses should NOT be 'roasting'.
		
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Are you sure?! Mine was almost roasting after this weekend's performance! He'd go really well with parsnips and those little sasages wrapped in bacon.....!


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## Syrah (31 January 2012)

I took it as a wind up due to the rug mafia posts we've had recently


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## 'S'teamed (31 January 2012)

This is the funniest load of bollox i've read on here in months!!

Keep it up.


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## Pebbles (31 January 2012)

Winklepoker said:



			TBH whether it was or wasnt meant in jest, surely we are all entitled to have our own beliefs and concerns and the choice to voice them?  I do believe that clipped horses should be rugged to provide the warmth that you, as the clipper, have taken away.  Dont rug your scraggy cobs and natives if you dont want to, they are covered in revolting hair and mane anyway  Just saying, it is freedom of speech and choices.
		
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I so totally agree with these sentiments, surely if you choose to clip you equally have to rug to compensate for what you have taken away - definitely in the depth of winter - surely that is just a no brainer?????


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## overtherainbow (31 January 2012)

A little concerned that no one on this thread advocating just checking whether the horse in the field was warm enough without a rug before suggesting various rants at people etc...

I depend what the horses get on how they act in the cold and their age, condition, breed etc. My 15 year old fit pony is fully clipped and in a middleweight, while the oldie (30) is in a heavyweight most of the time (both the same condition).

The only time i have ever told someone they were rugging up unfairly was when a girl had 2 duvets and a heavyweight on her horse in summer- the poor beast was always sweating!


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## Amymay (31 January 2012)

A little concerned that no one on this thread advocating just checking whether the horse in the field was warm enough without a rug before suggesting various rants at people etc...
		
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I would imagine that being clipped and in general poor condition, it's safe to bet that it's cold.


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## Pebbles (31 January 2012)

That's a great point overtherainbow, and I think more worryingly the horses WP refers to are both aged - whether she is jesting or not still a very valid point????


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## MissMincePie&Brandy (31 January 2012)

Winklepoker said:



			Honestly, today is MINUS ... yes thats right.... MINUS 3 where I am and there is a clipped horse with no rug on out in the field. 
There is also a display of unclipped nakedness that, quite frankly, is bloody cruel and ignorant in my book.  
My horse is wearing so many rugs - most of you would lose hair over it!

I lunged last night when it was -1 and my horse kept his thermatex on until he was sufficiently warm enough to have it off.  No way would he be touched with the cold water out of the hose let alone bathed in this weather which i have seen being done also.  

HORSES BEING LEFT OUT ON FROZEN GROUND WITH NO UNFROZEN HAY is REVOLTING.... My manual of horsemanship never taught me to do that!!!!! 

I dont care how natural you like your horses to be, would you shut your child/husband/hamster out in the cold, in the nude and spray them with cold water?? I DONT THINK SO!!!!
		
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I haven't read the whole thread.  But we have had three horses on our yard need veterinary treatment for overheating and being over-rugged so far this winter!  The vet on each occasion has had to lecture the owner about how horses don't want to feel as warm as we need to feel, and far more damage can be done more quickly to a horse which is over-rugged compared to being under-rugged.

Don't get me wrong, I would never condone a clipped warmblood or TB, or aged horse to be out overnight naked in mid winter, nor would I condone a horse carrying little condition to be out unrugged during winter, but if the horses in question are healthy horses, is it possible you may be over-reacting a little?  Are they out 24hours, or just in the daytime?

On sunny, and windless (but still chilly) days this winter I've turned my fully clipped kwpn out in just his rainsheet and he's come in happier than those who have come in sweating and on the verge of colicking due to being out in HWs when the sun has been heating them up like a green-house.  Also every horse is different.  Some horses need to be rugged a lot, and others are much 'warmer' (as is my kwpn) and simply don't need as many layers on, otherwise they overheat. ...


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## Pearlsasinger (31 January 2012)

Whether it is a wind-up or not, it does seem to have highlighted that very few posters know that horses keep warm by eating, rather than moving around and that putting your hand under a rug will only tell you if the horse is massively too hot.  To estimate a horse's body temp, you need to slip your hand into its 'elbow' under the hair (if there is any).  A horse's coat is insulating, so putting your hand on top of it will not tell you how hot the horse is.  
This is why when our unclipped unrugged horses were out in the snow on Friday (including the 30 yr old), they had snow on their backs.  They were warm enough.  I would have been worried if the snow had melted on them.


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## ILuvCowparsely (31 January 2012)

Winklepoker said:



			No there definitely arent enough rusty spikes on those Lev sorry  !
		
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PMSL


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## Spudlet (31 January 2012)

scarymare said:



			I must admit I do hate reading posters in here advocating clipping horses and not rugging to control their weight - shivering it off or some such nonsense.  Sounded to me like the OP was decrying all of us who (in my case for very good reason) don't rug.  My only clipped one is actually rugged.  My tackroom is stuffed full of very expensive rugs too, but since I got 'rug OCD' I must admit they look so much better (my neighbour is also going rugless next year having seen mine - barefooter too though)

Perhaps I misread the tone of the post.  I am marking an awful lot of very opinionated essays atm?
		
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I would sooner have a fat horse that is unrugged and thus expends more energy maintaining its body temperature (which is all it should be - not freezing and nothing to do with shivering being a great calorie burner) so it loses weight, than see a horse come down with laminitis due to being fat. Personally I think laminitis is a far more serious welfare issue than being a tad on the chilly side!

Although of course, if people controlled their horses' weight in the first place it wouldn't be necessary...


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## horsemad32 (31 January 2012)

I'd really confuse you then.  Once unclipped, stabled horse wrapped up snugly.  One unclipped pony turned out naked with no hay (still have loads of grass) who is getting fatter by the day!  Different breeds and different needs!


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## abitodd (31 January 2012)

^^^^Well said.

In case anyone is still into the rug debate I will add a point or two.

The nuchral ligament runs from the poll to the tail. On the crest of the neck it is suspended,like a washing line. On a poorly muscled animal this can be a weak spot and I personally would be very dubious about hanging several heavy rugs on this ligament/washing line.

A highly regarded physio in the equine world demonstrated to me how continual pressure from rugs effectively de-nerves the horse's epidermal layer......the special nerves they have for twitching at flies and.......shivvering to warm up.

A good way to check these nerves for damage/numbness is to tickle your horse(Sorry you will have to remove the rug for this) with the end of a schooling whip. The skin should twitch,the tail flick,or a head shake or swing.
An unrugged horse,or one with a well fitted,regularly changed rug should not show any signs of desensitization. If you do not get a response,try a gentle massage on the area you are testing,before applying the 'tickle stick' again.

This is also a useful exercise to make a horse more body aware and to make us as riders aware of how sensitive the horse could be to our aids.........I'll slope off now before I sound too alternative.


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## Seahorse (31 January 2012)

horses do not need to be toasty warm under their rugs, if they are then they are too hot. I hate over rugging with a passion. 
My horse is a particularly warm horse naturally and even when fully clipped out sweated up under a heavy weight rug while out in the snow!
A girl at my old yard used to rug her horse up so much there would be steam coming off him and even his eyebrows would be sweaty. Then she used to have a moan if anyone took his rug off. I used to fold the full neck bit back so at least he would have a bit of an air vent!

Although the other extreme is indeed putting a clipped horse out naked in freezing temperatures. I really don't know what is up with some people!


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## Tinsel Trouble (31 January 2012)

abitodd said:



			tickle your horse with the end of a schooling whip..........I'll slope off now before I sound too alternative.
		
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Wash your mouth out! YOu can't tickle your horse with a whip! that's cruel!  !


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## abitodd (31 January 2012)

Tinsel Trouble said:



			Wash your mouth out! YOu can't tickle your horse with a whip! that's cruel!  !
		
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I knew it as soon as I typed it....but my fingers would not stop.


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## Spudlet (31 January 2012)

abitodd said:



			I knew it as soon as I typed it....but my fingers would not stop.
		
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Obviously, the correct equipment is a Ken Dodd-style Tickling Stick. Honestly.

ETA, seriously, it's an interesting concept though


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## Tinsel Trouble (31 January 2012)

Spudlet said:



			Obviously, the correct equipment is a Ken Dodd-style Tickling Stick. Honestly.

Click to expand...

Or Papa Frita's banana stick...!!


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## Tinseltoes (31 January 2012)

amymay said:



			But surely this forum has absolutely no value for you as 90% of the posts are whining ones in one way or another.  Why would you want to post

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Nevermind what I do,its nothing to do with you whatsoever.I will post if I want to and you cant do anything about that. So get knotted!!


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## Spudlet (31 January 2012)

Tinsel Trouble said:



			Or Papa Frita's banana stick...!!
		
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No no no no, you can't misuse a vital bit of equipment like a banana stick for this kind of thing! My goodness, have you learnt none of the principles of Huggly Horsemanship?! No, you MUST purchase a Patented Horse Tickling Stick, available from my website for the bargain knockdown price of only £99.99


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## Tinsel Trouble (31 January 2012)

Tinseltoes said:



			Nevermind what I do,its nothing to do with you whatsoever.I will post if I want to and you cant do anything about that. So get knotted!!
		
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watch me....


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## CatStew (31 January 2012)

Up until today, my boy has been living out (he's going onto DIY as of tonight ).  He's unclipped as he's only in light/medium work and doesn't get sweaty unless we go on a fast hack probably about once a week (if that), but I didn't feel he was in heavy enough work to warrant clipping him.  

I've been rugging him up in a medium weight combo rug most of the time, especially now it has got cold, and he was wearing his no fill lightweight when the weather was milder.  

I do find it difficult to judge what rug to put on him, and take his temperature by feeling his ears and then making the best decision from that.  I'd rather he had a lighter rug on and kept himself warm rather then being over rugged and being uncomfortable.  Although he has got a winter coat he isn't really woolly and fluffy.

Now he's coming in, he will be wearing a medium weight stable rug at night, and his no fill turnout during the day, until it gets mild again, then he will be wearing his lightweight fleece at night, and either his no fill turnout or nothing, depending on whether it is raining or not.

I do think it's really unfair for somebody to clip their horse (presuming its a full clip) and turn it out without a rug on though, but this would depend on how long the horse was out in the field for, if it was only a short time to let it have a roll/hoon around then it would be more understandable I think, but if it's going to be out for a longer duration then the horse should be rugged as appropriate.


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## Tinsel Trouble (31 January 2012)

Spudlet said:



			No no no no, you can't misuse a vital bit of equipment like a banana stick for this kind of thing! My goodness, have you learnt none of the principles of Huggly Horsemanship?! No, you MUST purchase a Patented Horse Tickling Stick, available from my website for the bargain knockdown price of only £99.99

Click to expand...

If course.. I am so sorry, and so reasonably priced too! I would like to order 3 in pink, baby blue and white so I can continue with my matchy matchy equipment and tie it in with my KP velour riding tracksuits! I trust it has a diamante handle?


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## SaharaS (31 January 2012)

Hmmmm...didn't have the energy to read all thru..so apologies if i repeat...got up to 4 or 5th page...very evasive around the clip type & breed(unless I missed....you've been close enough to measure 0.8mm so you must be able to confirm!;-) Did you feel its ears or see it shivering/standing tucked up & miserable? Its cold yes, but is not cold and wet...and you may not be aware of another factor..such as stolen rugs?damaged rugs?these could be far more cruel from a safety aspect..perhaps genuine reason. I would hate to mention the word troll post...so I won't! xxx

oh and the one being hosed? perhaps they were hosing off mud to get to a cut? or cold hosing legs? or prepping horse for something? before anyone jumps on me I have TBs and not furry monsters..but my finest coated mare with skin like a whippet more than a tb..she was sweating this am in her heavyweight when I turned her out, so I took it off  & popped a lighter rug on & left the neck off...they are all different like us, but I really do think over rugging is far more of an issue, not to mention dangerous incase the horse falls/gets cast or simply can't wiggle enough to get up..if you are so worried, call a welfare officer? xxx


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## Spudlet (31 January 2012)

Tinsel Trouble said:



			If course.. I am so sorry, and so reasonably priced too! I would like to order 3 in pink, baby blue and white so I can continue with my matchy matchy equipment and tie it in with my KP velour riding tracksuits! I trust it has a diamante handle?
		
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Excellent and you are quite right, matching equipment is very very important if you are to reach your horse's full potential. That's why all those Olympic horses manage to struggle on, despite being so cruelly deprived of banana sticks - their matchy matchy just about pulls them through (although of course if their owners would only follow the lead of the Great PapaFrita and embrace Huggly Horsemanship, they'd do much better).

Your order is in the post!


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## Fairynuff (31 January 2012)

I unrugged all 5 of mine and threw them out in the snow for a couple of hours this am and it was MINUS 8. The sun was well hidden too! I also have 1 hairy Agentinian (32ish), 1 donkey and 1 mule who live stark naked but are very happy. Its supposed to be reaching the giddy heights of Minus 17 over the next couple of days and they will all go out regardless in the buff. I am one evil woman 

So long as a gale isn't blowing accompanied by rain/sleet/snow I see no problem. Too warm is worse than too cold imo.


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## Tinsel Trouble (31 January 2012)

Spudlet said:



			Excellent and you are quite right, matching equipment is very very important if you are to reach your horse's full potential. That's why all those Olympic horses manage to struggle on, despite being so cruelly deprived of banana sticks - their matchy matchy just about pulls them through (although of course if their owners would only follow the lead of the Great PapaFrita and embrace Huggly Horsemanship, they'd do much better).

Your order is in the post!
		
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Totes amazeballs!  Like,I have got to tell Chardonnay- she'll, like, totally want one too!


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## abitodd (31 January 2012)

Spudlet said:



			No no no no, you can't misuse a vital bit of equipment like a banana stick for this kind of thing! My goodness, have you learnt none of the principles of Huggly Horsemanship?! No, you MUST purchase a Patented Horse Tickling Stick, available from my website for the bargain knockdown price of only £99.99

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B****R!
I should have patented it before I posted!


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## Lucy-Gizmo (31 January 2012)

Shouldn't mention my 21 year old who is not clipped but is out without a rug and will be for the remainder of the year if he's happy. He's not cold at all.


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## Roasted Chestnuts (31 January 2012)

Some horses are very hot especially some cobs and they are clipped to enable work but get too hot turned out with a rug on. So what leave it to sweat just for the sake of appearances??

If horses bones were poking out and it was thin as heck I could see you problem OP. My guys when fully clipped are turned out in the snow to have a roll and play about as I like to see them having a good roll and a scratch and they love it.


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## Moomin1 (31 January 2012)

My mare is chase clipped and most days just goes out with a lightweight no fill rug to keep her dry!! She's a warmblood/hunter type who is slightly porky and a very good doer.  She hasn't dropped any condition.  If it drops below freezing I put a heavyweight on but that's only because her mediumweight has been ruined this year.  If like last year it reaches -13 then she did have a wool newmarket underneath her mediumweight stable rug at night and a heavyweight in the day.  Even then I was worried she was too hot some nights!!  I have hated every minute of rugging this winter, the weather has been so changeable and it's been hard to know what best to put on her!  But I definately HATE people rugging their horses with two or more rugs.  No need for it whatsoever, it restricts movement and must be so uncomfortable.  Why not just spend some money and get a thicker rug?!!


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## diamondrockharvey (31 January 2012)

Winklepoker said:



			HORSES BEING LEFT OUT ON FROZEN GROUND WITH NO UNFROZEN HAY is REVOLTING.... My manual of horsemanship never taught me to do that!!!!!
		
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How do you think horses survive in the wild/on the moors etc? There is nothing wrong with horses living out un rugged and on frozen ground!

I agree clipped horses are a different matter, but in general most horses can live un rugged in the UK climate!


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## 3Beasties (31 January 2012)

How long was the clipped horse out naked for? If it was turned out for a short while to have a hoon about I wouldn't be overly concerned......


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## Temptation (31 January 2012)

My horse is in With 4 rugs on (one of which is a double Dovet) 


SHOOT ME NOW!


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## Moomin1 (31 January 2012)

Temptation said:



			My horse is in With 4 rugs on (one of which is a double Dovet) 


SHOOT ME NOW! 



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Seriously hope that's a wind up or you def need reporting!! Unless of course you are in a very cold country!


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## Temptation (31 January 2012)

Yes a currently very cold country called england! 
My pony is very happy in his rugs ... And sometimes leg wraps


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## Moomin1 (31 January 2012)

Yes we have reached a VERY cold -3!!  Shocking.  I think I may install an electric fire in my horse's stable and make her a hot toddy! 

I would hate to be your horse if I had that many rugs on, I can't stand being restricted or too hot!!  Please tell me he's not unclipped and a native too!!!


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## christine48 (31 January 2012)

I think over rugging is worse than under rugging ( having suffered hot flushes, its horrible being too hot). Mine are fully clipped, go out for half a day and have 2 medium weight rugs on with neck covers. They have beautiful shiney coats with no cat hairs. I always go on this, cold horses have dull coats and horrid cat hairs.


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## Temptation (31 January 2012)

Haa yes he's a little hairy cob ...  

Only joking , he's a fully clipped wimpy Belgium dumblood!


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## christine48 (31 January 2012)

Temptation said:



			My horse is in With 4 rugs on (one of which is a double Dovet) 


SHOOT ME NOW! 



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That is cruel, what are you going to put on when it does get cold. Last year when it was really cold our fully clipped horses had only 3 on.


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## Temptation (31 January 2012)

I agree though , I hate seeing over rugged horses it's horrible ... Having worked on a show yard I know exactly what it's like and it's horrible lookin at horses that are clearly very uncomfortable! 
So I promise my pony is not in any way shape or form uncomftable or to hot.


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## Jackson (31 January 2012)

Who wants to hate me? 
Jack has had his thin fleece stable rug off from 1.00 today until 5.00. He's on box rest at the moment, and I was with him throughout this time and he was plenty warm enough. He went for his walk and graze and got groomed, and remained warm to touch and none of his hair was stuck up. He's a baby if he gets cold, and he definitely wasn't today.

Oh yes, it was freezing and he has a full clip that's beginning to grow out.


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## immybrookstud (31 January 2012)

Winklepoker said:



			There is also a display of unclipped nakedness that, quite frankly, is bloody cruel and ignorant in my book.  
QUOTE]

dont come here then, have 30 living out at the moment, all with no RUGS! plently of natural shelter not that they use it, an ab-lib hay in round feeders. horses are not people! yes if you clip you need to replace what you take of with a rug.

better start rugging up all the cows too, they grow alot less coat than horses and left out in the fields too!
		
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## Temptation (31 January 2012)

Well I don't hate you Jackson  at the end of the day the majority of us all want what's best for our horses. And what we do with them to keep them happy and healthy is up to us. I no my horse is and I'm sure yours is to!


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## Tinseltoes (31 January 2012)

Both my section A and coloured cobblet have rugs on at present.If cobblet damages his rug anymore he will be naked as I do not have a replacement as he wrecks rugs. Wont hurt him to be naked anyway,hes got a decent coat.


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## JessandCharlie (31 January 2012)

Some humans feel the cold more than others, I guess the same can be said of horses. For example, I was wearing a very thin summer dress and thin tights today, no worries. Others are togged up to the nines! 

(I'm yet to read the whole thread btw )

J&C


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## Moomin1 (31 January 2012)

It's now around -4 here, and I am about to go and muck out and bring the gee gee in.  I will be wearing a jumper and a jacket, with a woolly hat.  I don't have a body covered in hair (promise!!!) and I can definately say that I would be uncomfortable and FAR too hot if I had 3 jumpers and a duvet wrapped around me!!!


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## mymare (31 January 2012)

Temptation said:



			My horse is in With 4 rugs on (one of which is a double Dovet) 


SHOOT ME NOW! 



Click to expand...

Gladly!

*BANG!*


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## Temptation (31 January 2012)

Haha go ahead I don't mind ... Just thought I'd give you all someone else to pick on


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## Marydoll (31 January 2012)

mymare said:



			Gladly!

*BANG!*
		
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* snorts * i nearly choked on my popcorn


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## abitodd (31 January 2012)

Moomin1 said:



			It's now around -4 here, and I am about to go and muck out and bring the gee gee in.  I will be wearing a jumper and a jacket, with a woolly hat.  I don't have a body covered in hair (promise!!!) and I can definately say that I would be uncomfortable and FAR too hot if I had 3 jumpers and a duvet wrapped around me!!!
		
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I find that when I put loads of layers on,I become reluctant to move and am hunched and huddled against the cold,feeling miserable and getting colder,whereas if I just sling a jacket on and get on with things I warm up and stay warm......but then I am a human........So ignore me.


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## madeleine1 (31 January 2012)

BigRed said:



			There is nothing wrong with horses living out without rugs.  Properly managed, horses live perfectly well un-rugged.  

I don't agree with piling on rugs.  My horses have a high trace clip and unless it is madly cold, they wear one rug at a time, it is the right rug for the prevailing conditions.  You try wearing a T-shirt, a jumper, a waistcoat, another jacket and a second jacket on top and see how comfortable you are ?

If there are horses out on your yard with no rug, that have a lot of their body hair clipped, you should have word with the owner.
		
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i am today wearing 1 strappy top, one t shire and one long sleeved t shirt, a cardigen, a jumper, a body warmer and then a coat. 
i would rather be warm and its not that uncomfortable. my mare is in one rug in the day and a differant one at night but i do have a spare turnout that will be added when it gets to minus.


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## mymare (31 January 2012)

I have worn my thermal nipple tassles and matching thong today.  Was quite parky, but if I did  a dozen star jumps every now and then I was ok.


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## SillySausage (31 January 2012)

mymare said:



			I have worn my thermal nipple tassles and matching thong today.  Was quite parky, but if I did  a dozen star jumps every now and then I was ok.
		
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Is tea easily removed from a keyboard? I've just spat mine everywhere....


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## Temptation (31 January 2012)

Mymare... Seriously? Yes that was funny but there really is no need to be so childish?


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## mymare (31 January 2012)

Temptation said:



			Mymare... Seriously? Yes that was funny but there really is no need to be so childish?
		
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Yes I'm serious. 

Why?


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## LauraWheeler (31 January 2012)

I havn't read the whole thread but just wanted to say.......

Both my boys are out 24/7 naked  
I know i'm the crulest person alive quickly someone call the rspca 

Both my boys are forest bred foresters and I live in the new forest. If they were still running on the forest they wouldn't have rugs on. Infact Merryns mum is still out there somewhere. She won't have a rug on. 

I do agree some horses do need to be rug weather clipped or not. But I'm always being told i'm crule for leaving my boys naked all the time.


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## 'S'teamed (31 January 2012)

mymare said:



			Gladly!

*BANG!*
		
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Post of The Day


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## Temptation (31 January 2012)

Just asking


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## 'S'teamed (31 January 2012)

mymare said:



			I have worn my thermal nipple tassles and matching thong today.  Was quite parky, but if I did  a dozen star jumps every now and then I was ok.
		
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Actually, i've changed my mind..

Post of The Day


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## 'S'teamed (31 January 2012)

Has any idiot mentioned Leg Wraps yet?


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## Temptation (31 January 2012)

They would have been me


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## 1Lucie (31 January 2012)

Umm i have to say i'm in the rugging crew. I hate to see horses unrugged!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Temptation (31 January 2012)

That .. Stupid phone!


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## ClobellsandBaubles (31 January 2012)

Slightly off topic but until this thread I don't think I had ever heard of horses wearing more than one rug at any one time when rugged  clearly I have been mixing with the wrong sort

God help my future horses if I treat them like me as I am always to hot even when I layer up because it is -15 odd I sleep with the window open and all radiators turned off even in the depth of the winter and take cold showers  but I will not tell you what I am wearing


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## Lady La La (31 January 2012)

'S'teamed - 
"Has any idiot mentioned Leg Wraps yet? "  lol lol lol


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## 'S'teamed (31 January 2012)

Lady La La said:



			'S'teamed - 
"Has any idiot mentioned Leg Wraps yet? "  lol lol lol 

Click to expand...

Apparently, one has.


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## penhwnllys_stardust (31 January 2012)

1Lucie said:



			Umm i have to say i'm in the rugging crew. I hate to see horses unrugged!!!!!!!!!!!!
		
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MY two would hate you then, I think they'd die if they were rugged.


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## Temptation (31 January 2012)

Yes one has


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## indie999 (31 January 2012)

Winklepoker said:



			Honestly, today is MINUS ... yes thats right.... MINUS 3 where I am and there is a clipped horse with no rug on out in the field. 
Does depend what clip or how you mean?

I think horses with rugs on can be just as bad on mild (especially PINK ones..that is cruel)

I dont care how natural you like your horses to be, would you shut your child/husband/hamster out in the cold, in the nude and spray them with cold water?? I DONT THINK SO!!!!
		
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 Sounds like quite a rude nude idea..........hamsters too!


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## indie999 (31 January 2012)

mymare said:



			I have worn my thermal nipple tassles and matching thong today.  Was quite parky, but if I did  a dozen star jumps every now and then I was ok.
		
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But do you have pictures too? And are you clipped? Which type clip?


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## blood_magik (31 January 2012)

Cloball said:



			Slightly off topic but until this thread I don't think I had ever heard of horses wearing more than one rug at any one time when rugged  clearly I have been mixing with the wrong sort
		
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Really? If it's really cold, then I pop a fleece on underneath his HW but I never use more than two rugs at a time.


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## Temptation (31 January 2012)

But do you have pictures too? And are you clipped? Which type clip?
Haha


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## mulledwhine (31 January 2012)

It is quite easy, are they cold behind legs/ ears then a light rug may be needed, still cold? Swop fr a thicker one, job done


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## Winklepoker (31 January 2012)

Honestly I leave you all alone for a few hours and you simply can't contain yourselves can you?! ;-) quick... Throw another medium weight combo onto the smouldering ashes... Don't get me started on the rancid hairies that don't need rugs :-D


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## SaharaS (31 January 2012)

...oh god...panick stations...hang on....

left a bit ....thats it shuffle up everyone...please all move along...right a bit....whoa there...

sorry...just spent all afternoon re arranging the furniture..bit of a squish..you'll have to fire the popcorn over again as Woolliam the shoop scoffed it...sorry! 4 tbs now warming their hooves by the log burner...7 shiverring sheep are donning their foal duvets & mums knocking up some socks & leg warmers for them from the goats under belly fluff...goats are fluffed up & their cashmere undercoat is now showing thru their top coat...so I've dug out some old Brora jumpers for them & they are now warming their bottoms on the aga & the polar bear is in his big thick bear jacket...with a wooly hat on curled up on my lap in a tiny ball...well as small as polar bears can...I'll see if i can get a pic....hang on...could whichever horse nearest the ch thermostat whack it up full please...I'm wearing too many jackets to clamber over you all....


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## debsg (31 January 2012)

My OH could do with clipping and turning out naked  
My hamster is in full work and has a chaser clip atm, but I'm finding it really difficult to source turnout rugs for him. He is a Siberian hamster, so you'd think he was used to sub zero temperatures. The poor little bugger is shivering as he runs around on his wheel and I could really use some advice. Should I up his hard feed? Am a little concerned about ham-initis.


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## Temptation (31 January 2012)

I am in stitches ... Ham - initis!!!!


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## haras (31 January 2012)

I'm afraid that I haven't read all 22 pages of replies, but in my opinion there is nothing more creul than over rugged horses.  They can't take a layer off to cool down.  However, with enough forage, they can eat to keep warm.

My 4 all live out 24/7.  My 2 arabs including an 8 month old foal are in mediumweights.  My arab x veteran is in a heavyweight, and only because he is old.  Last winter he wintered out in the medium weight my mare is wearing now.  They are all plenty warm enough under their rugs.  If they feel toasty warm, then they are too warm!!!

And shock horror...  My welsh mountain pony is out NAKED and she is fine!  I'd be cruel if I rugged her to be honest, shes young, fit, healthy and fat.  She needs to lose weight, if I rug her, then she'll not burn off weight as nature intended and then she'll be at risk of laminitis come spring...


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## 'S'teamed (31 January 2012)

indie999 said:



			And are you clipped? Which type clip?
		
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I think it's a Brazillian


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## monkeybum13 (31 January 2012)

'S'teamed said:



			I think it's a Brazillian
		
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Wrong, its a vajazzle!


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## madgeymoo (31 January 2012)

we have neighbours like this all TB no rugs no hay out turned out 9/10 am everyday come shine, rain, wind, snow, with no rugs no hay and no grass (field just like a mud bath) yet mine dont go in field if boggy, muddy out any would die if they where expected to stand there naked  although they go out in the school everyday for a roll with rugs and turnout boots. Many people say i wrap them up in cotton wool to much but i no that if i didnt something would go wrong always does--- yet next door never seem to have a problem and get away with doing anything (THAT ANNOYS ME TO)


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## 'S'teamed (31 January 2012)

monkeybum13 said:



			Wrong, its a vajazzle!
		
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## Spellbound13 (31 January 2012)

TigerTail said:



			Dear god what an over reaction!

Some horses do not need layers of rugs, clipped or unclipped. Some have a very dense coat which keeps them plenty warm. If the sun is out NO horse needs a damn rug on anyway. 

Also they could be trying to get the horse to lose weight so that it is not obese and at risk of lami come spring etc

It is far worse to over rug, which to be frank sounds like you are doing, than to under rug.

Theyre animals, born and bred to live outside etc etc - not to be trussed up in blankets like replacement children.
		
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My gypsy cob is 5 years old now and she has NEVER been rugged in her life, I have clipped her this winter as ive now broken her, only a neck and chest clip, not even on to her belly, and she isnt rugged still, I do now put a turnout rug on her when she goes in the paddock and its raining, but other than that she is not rugged and gets along perfectly fine, she is also over weight so on VETS RECOMENDATIONS she isnt ruggged to help shift a bit of weight. she is currently stabled day and night, but gets turned out in the paddock for an hour a day.


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## temple_jessica (31 January 2012)

mine r unclipped and rugged in h/w....they r not overly hot.....


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## Winklepoker (31 January 2012)

Pmsl.... Seriously I have had the worst day and this has been the saving grace!! Snapped the lace in my ariat boots, had the trots, got my period, fell off my horse (no doubt because he had been too hot all day) and had toothache. Brazilian and vajazzling, shaven hamsters and total ranting, revolting hairy cob owners get rowdy - my horse has still gone to bed tonight in his rucksack of rugs that are stretching his washing line ligament! Pah ha ha ha haaaaaa!!!


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## bumblelion (31 January 2012)

Winklepoker said:



			Pmsl.... Seriously I have had the worst day and this has been the saving grace!! Snapped the lace in my ariat boots, had the trots, got my period, fell off my horse (no doubt because he had been too hot all day) and had toothache. Brazilian and vajazzling, shaven hamsters and total ranting, revolting hairy cob owners get rowdy - my horse has still gone to bed tonight in his rucksack of rugs that are stretching his washing line ligament! Pah ha ha ha haaaaaa!!!
		
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Lol!!!!


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## bumblelion (31 January 2012)

SaharaS said:



			...oh god...panick stations...hang on....

left a bit ....thats it shuffle up everyone...please all move along...right a bit....whoa there...

sorry...just spent all afternoon re arranging the furniture..bit of a squish..you'll have to fire the popcorn over again as Woolliam the shoop scoffed it...sorry! 4 tbs now warming their hooves by the log burner...7 shiverring sheep are donning their foal duvets & mums knocking up some socks & leg warmers for them from the goats under belly fluff...goats are fluffed up & their cashmere undercoat is now showing thru their top coat...so I've dug out some old Brora jumpers for them & they are now warming their bottoms on the aga & the polar bear is in his big thick bear jacket...with a wooly hat on curled up on my lap in a tiny ball...well as small as polar bears can...I'll see if i can get a pic....hang on...could whichever horse nearest the ch thermostat whack it up full please...I'm wearing too many jackets to clamber over you all....

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Double lol, lol!!


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## 'S'teamed (31 January 2012)

TBH, i've never saw any reasoning to rugging a bloody Cob....they grow a HW Rug naturally, so why waste money?


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## Vickijay (31 January 2012)

Winklepoker said:



			and yes of course, my dad is a farmer and all of his cows are in 450gs with full necks!
		
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I can confirm I visited said farm and saw the cows in their hw rugs, they even had cow Snuggy jams for when they were in!



Winklepoker said:



			Dont rug your scraggy cobs and natives if you dont want to, they are covered in revolting hair and mane anyway  Just saying, it is freedom of speech and choices.
		
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Lolz 



Winklepoker said:



			Pmsl.... Seriously I have had the worst day and this has been the saving grace!! Snapped the lace in my ariat boots, had the trots, got my period, fell off my horse (no doubt because he had been too hot all day) and had toothache. Brazilian and vajazzling, shaven hamsters and total ranting, revolting hairy cob owners get rowdy - my horse has still gone to bed tonight in his rucksack of rugs that are stretching his washing line ligament! Pah ha ha ha haaaaaa!!!
		
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I can't believe you are damaging his washing line ligament, I think that's a important one... And as for vajazzling I brought my friend one from the pound shop for christmas, im such a good friend!! hahahahahahahaaaaa

I must be confused about the rugging debate as I have just put a mw rug on my hairy youngster who is still a ferral (well sort of not so much now) pony and I have let my fully clipped tb out in the snow and cold naked! Are you really saying I've got it all wrong?!???!!!! 

Xxx


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## Ancient Hacker (31 January 2012)

monkeybum13 said:



			Wrong, its a vajazzle!
		
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With respect, I think you will find that persons of refinement will transmogrify from the vajazzle to the use of the merkin, given current weather conditions in the UK.


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## abitodd (31 January 2012)

debsg said:



			My OH could do with clipping and turning out naked  
My hamster is in full work and has a chaser clip atm, but I'm finding it really difficult to source turnout rugs for him. He is a Siberian hamster, so you'd think he was used to sub zero temperatures. The poor little bugger is shivering as he runs around on his wheel and I could really use some advice. Should I up his hard feed? Am a little concerned about ham-initis.
		
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NODo not up his hard feed. He needs fibre,fibre,fibre. I am assuming he is a barefoot hamster,so it might be worth getting his forage tested for mineral levels.



haras said:



			I'm afraid that I haven't read all 22 pages of replies, but in my opinion there is nothing more creul than over rugged horses.  They can't take a layer off to cool down.  However, with enough forage, they can eat to keep warm.
		
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You really should read all the replies. Its better than telly.



Winklepoker said:



			Pmsl.... Seriously I have had the worst day and this has been the saving grace!! Snapped the lace in my ariat boots, had the trots, got my period, fell off my horse (no doubt because he had been too hot all day) and had toothache. Brazilian and vajazzling, shaven hamsters and total ranting, revolting hairy cob owners get rowdy - my horse has still gone to bed tonight in his rucksack of rugs that are stretching his washing line ligament! Pah ha ha ha haaaaaa!!!
		
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Sorry you've had a bad day. Thanks for improving mine.


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## MerrySherryRider (31 January 2012)

Sucks, granddad was a forerunner in warming animals back in the 1920's. Used to bring his chickens out of the snow to defrost their feet letting them perch on the clothes horse in front of the fire.

 Anyone know where I can get rugs for the guineapigs ? Oh, and some little boots too ?


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## ilvpippa (31 January 2012)

My clipped tb was out yesterday with no rug as the sun was glorious & warm. It was 5degrees, but she was so happy!


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## glenruby (31 January 2012)

When I had my ponies they had bib or neck and belly clips in October and lived out rugless.  They were then trace or chaser clipped in January and again out rugless except for in heavy rain and storms when they were brought in. Even when I finally got stables, they were left naked for at least an hour a day ( usually around riding time) and often for the duration if the sunshine on frosty mornings - happier horses I haven't seen! One if them did tend to shiver if wet and rugged but never in the frost/ snow. 
I cannot abide seeing horses over rugged nowadays. I also do. Not own a heavy weight rug only medium ones - both of which have remained hanging up this year as my unclupped youngster (3/4tb) is in good order unruffled now. 
I can understand your anger if there are other management issues as well as you assume there are however I also think it sounds s though it is none of your business. There is no welfare issue from what you say - only they don't do things the way you do.


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## caitlineloise (31 January 2012)

debsg said:



			My OH could do with clipping and turning out naked  
My hamster is in full work and has a chaser clip atm, but I'm finding it really difficult to source turnout rugs for him. He is a Siberian hamster, so you'd think he was used to sub zero temperatures. The poor little bugger is shivering as he runs around on his wheel and I could really use some advice. Should I up his hard feed? Am a little concerned about ham-initis.
		
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LOL!


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## Spellbound13 (31 January 2012)

Sorry you've had a bad day. Thanks for improving mine.[/QUOTE]



That made me lol


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## glenruby (31 January 2012)

Should add when they were stabled they were either full or hunter clipped hence were rugged much of the time.


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## Echo Bravo (31 January 2012)

Horserider knit them some bootees and shawls,great for chickens, and out of my 5 this year only my TB is rugged up(lightweight) only because she suffers from sweet itch and because it's been warm she is still scratching.


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## spotty_pony (31 January 2012)

I haven't read all of the replies but I agree with the OP - horses which are fully clipped should not be left unrugged when it is cold as it is at the moment. When hair is removed, it needs to be replaced by rugs. There is nothing natural about a clipped horse.


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## Abz88 (31 January 2012)

TigerTail said:



			Dear god what an over reaction!

Some horses do not need layers of rugs, clipped or unclipped. Some have a very dense coat which keeps them plenty warm. If the sun is out NO horse needs a damn rug on anyway. 

Also they could be trying to get the horse to lose weight so that it is not obese and at risk of lami come spring etc

It is far worse to over rug, which to be frank sounds like you are doing, than to under rug.

Theyre animals, born and bred to live outside etc etc - not to be trussed up in blankets like replacement children.
		
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I have to admitt - I worry like anything when I go outside and feel how cold it is in the evenings and think 'is she warm enough? Should I have put an under rug on?' .... but then I remember that in the last cold snap we had just after new year,...I had her midweight rug on her (with neck peice), it got to about -3 over night, got to her about 10am next day and she was wet with sweat. I felt AWEFUL. And at that moment I made myself take a step back and think, right,....she is a horse, a field animal, she has a massivly thick coat, she has lived out with the previous owner for 3 years and ONLY when it got very very cold did she have any rug at all. I agree, logic says, at the end of the day, it is a horse. I for one dont worry about the cows on my yard being cold in the same conditions,.....with no rugs! 

Each horse is different and each horse, like each person feels the cold to varrying degrees. I learnt my hardy little mare is just that, and her midweight is more than suitable, she is not clipped either. Although, if the MetOffice is correct and Friday night is going to be -9'C here, then I will be pulling out the under rug for the first time, and for one night only (if it gets warmer into Saturday night of course!).

My main point - it is horrid to see a horse, in your view, not being cared for as you would with yours. BUT, someone may look at you and think it is over kill. You cant put your views of horse care onto other people....unless of course the horses are litrally ice-pops or have icicles from their tummies and nose,...then it becomes neglect. But be careful if you approach anyone, as someone else said, there may be a number of reasons why their horses are not rugged. You may think my mare is not rugged adiquatley, but I know from experience of her personally, that she is. You dont intimatley know their horses, as we dont know yours who may need to be rugged to within an inch of their lives! 

Take a step back, take a breathe, and look at it from other views. Chances are it'll calm you down and make you realise it isn't that bad.


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## ladyt25 (31 January 2012)

Just gonna say, this is the first year for many that my horse has NOT worn his heavyweight full neck rug as it's just been too warm for it! He is fully clipped - well, this year he has a hight blanket clip as he's 21 now and after the last two winters when we didn't ride for 5 weeks due to snow I thought not worth clipping too much! 

I have to be careful with him though as he gets too hot (I have to clip him in summer) so hence I try not to over-rug as he is very miserable and stands twitching if I do. my 26 yo pony has a neck and belly clip to prevent him sweating up on the occasional hack he goes on and he has been out naked some days as, even if cold, when the sun's out and there's no wind it actually is pretty warm - you only have to touch their coats. Even when he is rugged at the moment it's a light/medium amigo as anything else would make him too hot.

You can't just judge on temperature as horses feel it differently than we do. You should account for wind, rain, sun etc. However, if a horse is underweight and pretty much fully clipped then I would put a rug on it. Pointless it using energy to keep itself warm so pointless paying out on feed in that case!


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## Cinnamontoast (31 January 2012)

Did we  find out what clip? Can't be bothered to read every page.

Mine is fully clipped and wrapped up in a heavy weight tonight despite being a cob. Due to lack of rugging, he dropped far too much weight a few years ago and took months to be a decent weight again. Better safe than sorry, imo.


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## Jazzy B (31 January 2012)

cinammontoast said:



			Did we  find out what clip? Can't be bothered to read every page.QUOTE]

mine both have their heavy weights on, both have trace clips she lives out and is ancient but actually thinking may have cut her feed down as she's looking very well he is in at night and is a wimp, both seem fine but they won't be having any more rugs on.
		
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## DragonSlayer (31 January 2012)

cinammontoast said:



			Did we  find out what clip? Can't be bothered to read every page.

Mine is fully clipped and wrapped up in a heavy weight tonight despite being a cob. Due to lack of rugging, he dropped far too much weight a few years ago and took months to be a decent weight again. Better safe than sorry, imo.
		
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...from what I can gather, as it got very boring reading the insults etc so I gave up....this was a 'spoof' thread, therefore, a trolling/spamming thread, call it what you will.

Of course, I might be completely barking up the wrong tree, if I am, I'll gladly be verbally slapped down.


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## henryhorn (31 January 2012)

Well yes TT they are animals, and are born equipped to deal with cold weather. That means they grow thick dense coats from living outside, have fields with shelter including dips where they can get out of the wind, and adequate food. 
This horse was clipped out and in these temperatures that's totally unnaceptable unless for a quick hoon round then brough in or rugged. I disagree, if the sun is out they still need a rug. 
Do me a favour will you? 
Just strip off tomorrow if the sun is shining and stand naked in your field tomorrow for just ten mins. Then tell me if you need anything to keep you comfortable or not. 
Honestly, sometimes the degree of ignorance shown on this forum takes my breath away...


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## skychick (31 January 2012)

My tb went out all last winter in a lightweight no neck....she is clipped and 17 yes old....she doesn't go out if wet....(this winter...she jumps the fence to come in) but she us clipped and in a little fleece if it's really cold s lightweight cooler if not. If she goes out lightweight no neck....she is moulting like hell. I don't believe in cotton wool. Last year we had -20 but it was dry and sunny...i was in a long sleeve top, no coat, I didn't die! She is a hardy old trout!


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## CalllyH (1 February 2012)

Winklepoker said:



			I over rug my horse because it makes me happy to know that he is roasting! JEEZ!

I clip him out fully when he doesnt really need it 

I also have had him in a set of draw reins and he NEVER EVER hacks out!

People do things differently, other people rant freely about all sorts of things - I just chose this one today  nice to see HHO still have a good ole' fire burning in its belly though!
		
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So basically your bored and just posting crap then. Good one


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## Tharg (1 February 2012)

touchstone said:



			In my experience many horses with a partial clip are fine turned out in the cold, it cold/wind/wet that does the damage.

The owners are probably trying to boost the horses metabolism to avoid it being overweight or laminitic, and it may well just be a 'hot' horse that doesn't particularly need rugs.

Best to know the individual horse and the reasoning behind management practices before condemning them I think.
		
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100%

Horses aren't like people for **** sake.


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## Ancient Hacker (1 February 2012)

While I concede some bits of this thread have been whacky, can we please face one simple fact: there are indeed some of us who have great internal debates with ourselves as to whether to rug up or not. Clearly MANY of us need guidance in this area, and need to be able to ask advice of our more experienced members or express our worries etc.

How about a SERIOUS and helpful thread for those who genuinely seek advice on what is clearly a divisive topic? I'd start one myself but with about half a dozen posts to my name I'd probably be written off as a half-witted troll


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## zaminda (1 February 2012)

This thread shows me why I am no longer on a yard! Each horse is an individual. However, I would say that in freezing conditions a horse is unlikely to be able to keep itself warm enough if its fully clipped out with no rug.  After all they don't tend to run about as much when the ground is frozen solid, and slippery.


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## AngieandBen (1 February 2012)

I think whats worse tbh is people rugging unclipped fat  very very hairy cobs!  Now that is animal abuse.

None of mine are clipped/rugged but they are all wooly and have a big field with lots of hedges/trees to get out of the wind.  If it were cold/wet and windy then I might put a rainsheet on the two older ones.

Anyhow people will always do what they want with their horses


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## BonneMaman (1 February 2012)

Well I am going to put my tuppence-worth in just for the sheer hell of it - I have a welsh A - hunter clipped for showing reasons - he has 2 rugs on at the moment 24/7 they are 1 x full neck 100g stable rug and 1 x 200g Amigo with neck turnout - underneath he also has a Lycra hood with head.  He is not sweating and not cold - he is just lovely and toasty.  I do not change his rugs at night when he comes in.

However, when I lunged him at 5am this morning and it was -2.5 I left a wool witney striped rug on, wrapped front back under surcingle because there is no way I was getting his poor naked body out.

However, that is my pony -  I do not know this other horse/pony, if it is not shivering then leave it alone - if it is tell YO and get her to have a word.


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## moodymare123 (1 February 2012)

My one has heavy..medium..and fleece..
*runs off and hides*


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## indie999 (1 February 2012)

OK I bought mine a wonderful double field shelter with an old 36 year old companion. In this cold weather driving rain etc ...GUESS what?? 

Standing with bums against a hedge at bottom of field every time. Tend to use it more in summer due to flies!

I go to see mine yesterday bitterly cold and its outside with bum against hedge and happy to see me.
Woolley mamouth...........vet was well impressed with his coat.

Hate hate rugs on most horses! It does stop their coats growing and if the horses the poster has mentioned are stripped bare and suffering etc but I do wonder why new forests ponies etc are not all rugged up then? 

When sweaty covered in straw and put back in field good roll mud is best natural barrier and he is as happy as larry! 

DONT HUMANISE ANIMALS!!! she provokes a response no doubt!!


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## Tinsel Trouble (1 February 2012)

mymare said:



			I have worn my thermal nipple tassles and matching thong today.  Was quite parky, but if I did  a dozen star jumps every now and then I was ok.
		
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This comment may have got me a formal warning at work for spitting tea and not working efficiently!! but... ha ha ha ha ha :


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## ljohnsonsj (1 February 2012)

Horse on our yard was fully clipped out last year,infact i lie he had his legs and face on still. To look at you'd think he was just your average cobby. Started going a bit lame,got the vet out this was december-january last year and the vet said to leave him unrugged on a night to get him to loose some weight and use some of his own fat to keep him warm as he was at risk of making himself really poorly and getting athritis from having to support his weight. He never looked sick or sorry for himself just put his fat to good use


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## Fellewell (1 February 2012)

debsg said:



			My OH could do with clipping and turning out naked  
My hamster is in full work and has a chaser clip atm, but I'm finding it really difficult to source turnout rugs for him. He is a Siberian hamster, so you'd think he was used to sub zero temperatures. The poor little bugger is shivering as he runs around on his wheel and I could really use some advice. Should I up his hard feed? Am a little concerned about ham-initis.
		
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Is your hamster called Basil? If he does succumb you can always put him in the RATatouille

I think it's really helpful when people selling cobs put their rugs tog rating in the adverts; h/w, m/w, l/w...


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## Serenity087 (1 February 2012)

I kept my unclipped horse rugged because she seemed to prefer being warmer and she dropped dead last week.

Figures.

Perhaps we've all got better things to do than slag everyone else off for not rugging the same as us?


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## horsegirl (1 February 2012)

Surely this is a joke?  Well if not it's as cruel to over rug IMO if not more cruel as the horse can move around to keep warm but can't remove the extra rugs


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## Holly831 (1 February 2012)

Mine are ....UNRUGGED......... (with the exception of old boy aged 21 and part clipped)

They are happy & healthy - I HATE rugs on youngsters, IMO they restrict their movement - & their coats grow to the conditions  AND they are out 24/7 - they have a huge new field shelter but can be seen grazing happily come snow or rain and tend to hide behind it in the wind 

My old boy (part clipped) is also out today minus his rug......but it is sunny and he is enjoying having a good roll (more work for me when I bring him in later to re rug him)

I have even been known to turn him out in the ....(wait for it) SNOW minus his rug so he can have a good roll and he loves it!!

Have some lovely photos of young horses out with about 4 inches of snow on their backs


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## Fairynuff (1 February 2012)

BonneMaman said:



			Well I am going to put my tuppence-worth in just for the sheer hell of it - I have a welsh A - hunter clipped for showing reasons - he has 2 rugs on at the moment 24/7 they are 1 x full neck 100g stable rug and 1 x 200g Amigo with neck turnout - underneath he also has a Lycra hood with head.  He is not sweating and not cold - he is just lovely and toasty.  I do not change his rugs at night when he comes in.

However, when I lunged him at 5am this morning and it was -2.5 I left a wool witney striped rug on, wrapped front back under surcingle because there is no way I was getting his poor naked body out.

However, that is my pony -  I do not know this other horse/pony, if it is not shivering then leave it alone - if it is tell YO and get her to have a word.
		
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'Toasty' is TOO hot. Horses /ponies should not be toasty. Poor pony, sounds like torture to me


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## SaharaS (1 February 2012)

update...bad mother here..my TB mare, 16 very fine coated & used to being in medium or heavy weight with neck when out in day..its -3 here & been rugged all winter..and has a semi grown out chase clip...she was out as usual with her son and for some reason he wasn't happy to eat as he was too busy trying to get her pregnant...nipped that in the bud..whipped her rug & hood straight off...popped her back out & now if he does mount her, no worries about legs getting caught in back straps or mouth injuries when investigating around her buckles..have to say clever lad, tried pulling her rug off..then walked round her & started nosing the buckles & playing with them..front, side & back!Just been out to check them & despite being rug free & grass too frozen..they are happily munching their hay & are warm & happy..no staring coats...nice bit of sun on their backs...oh & he seems to have stopped pestering her as she'd obviously squirted on her back straps....job done and she actually looks really happy after having a really good roll!(should I don my bullet proofs???) oh  yes and my polar bear in my avatar LOVES wearing his(my) hat -he brings me his lead..his harness..and then two hats & my gloves! if I don't put his on, he cries & cries & cries!..when he's warmed up a little he paws it off...and when his ears are chilly again, he brings it to me & sits holding his head out!! I am pure evil!


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## asbo (1 February 2012)

Shoot me now, my UNCLIPPED, yes your read that right, both are unclipped, idxtb has 3 rugs on and my Sec A has 1 MW with neck on. I know my horses and I know whats right for them, on dry days they both have their rugs off for an hour or 2, Jay will lose a rug or gain it back depending on him, Fizz will stay in her MW unless weather and her body temp get to a point I feel its time to up to a HW or drop to a LW.


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## SplashofSoy (1 February 2012)

All this cuffuffle over what is common sense.  Rug or dont rug according to horse/pony and weather conditions.  Some horses live quite happily without rugs, others need them to maintain condition.  My TB who is blanket clipped needs to be warm as well as being stuffed with hay and feed to maintain weight so is well rugged.  We have other horses on the yard with varying clips/unclipped, rugged/without rugs and they are all fine.


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## Moomin1 (1 February 2012)

BonneMaman said:



			Well I am going to put my tuppence-worth in just for the sheer hell of it - I have a welsh A - hunter clipped for showing reasons - he has 2 rugs on at the moment 24/7 they are 1 x full neck 100g stable rug and 1 x 200g Amigo with neck turnout - underneath he also has a Lycra hood with head.  He is not sweating and not cold - he is just lovely and toasty.  I do not change his rugs at night when he comes in.

However, when I lunged him at 5am this morning and it was -2.5 I left a wool witney striped rug on, wrapped front back under surcingle because there is no way I was getting his poor naked body out.

However, that is my pony -  I do not know this other horse/pony, if it is not shivering then leave it alone - if it is tell YO and get her to have a word.
		
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Your pony is a WELSH PONY!!! Good grief what on earth would he have done on the mountains?!!!  I understand he is hunter clipped but even so I think you are overkilling the rugging!!  Bearing in mind that the weather is so changeable at the moment and some days it has been rising to about 13 degrees!!! Now I would imagine your pony is sweltering to say the least if he has been rugged up to that extent in those conditions?????


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## justforfun (1 February 2012)

My pony is happy,livng out and naked tonght, she stays far warmer without a rug than she does with a rug flattening down her hair, if she is cold she fluffs up as nature intended.
I have seen some very sore withers on over rugs horses/ponies that have taken months to clear up and resulting in long term problems.


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## Roasted Chestnuts (22 February 2012)

*popcorn at the ready*


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## Natch (22 February 2012)

This is all a bit ridiculous sounding!


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## vieshot (22 February 2012)

I dont see an issue with chucking a full clipped horse out unrugged for an hour or two? Lets them have a bit of freedom from rugs for a bit. Yes I would agree it were cruel if it were raining or really windy but if its just because its a chilly day then I dont see the issue.


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## Marydoll (22 February 2012)

What caused this resurection ?


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## Roasted Chestnuts (22 February 2012)

I think the person who the OP was bitching about has obviously been tipped off 

Its amazing how things come out in the wash on this forum


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## 1973horse (22 February 2012)

why has sam the wonder horses name red


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## Cortez (22 February 2012)

Sorry, don't have enough time left in my life to read all the posts, but was the horse in question shivering? If it wasn't obviously cold, why would anyone be concerned?


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## Amy567 (22 February 2012)

I have two little Shetlands that were out in -6 ish, but when it got to -13 we brought them in, they have 6 inches worth of fur, so I guess it's like a rug anyway! haha.
 The thoroughbred on the other hand wears a fleece and a heavy weight if its below zero during the day and has a heavy weight indoor rug for at night when she comes in and is below zero. I always find the rug on top pulls the bottom rug and rubsthe  chest and restircts their movment, so I would never put more than a fleece and a heavy weight on.... the TB is also clipped, so her heavy weight is REALLY heavy weight haha


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## Marydoll (22 February 2012)

sam the wonder horse said:








[/URL][/IMG] does he look poor
		
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Fwiw, no he doesnt look like hes under the table at mealtimes  he looks pretty well covered in this shot, even if its not with a rug lol


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## Mrs B (22 February 2012)

badtothebone said:



			because i think they have been kicked of by a  certain person
		
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Welcome back, Sam...


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## babymare (22 February 2012)

lol wow how did horses cope before rugs lol my lass as been nude all winter(and as been for many years in winter) and is perfectly fine - a good fine winter coat fed to the weather conditions and a native and I use the winter to controll her weight as nature intended (OMG I hear people cry how cruel how mean lol).  
  But when had the big lad - TBX - I would turn him out on a crisp cold frosty day with no rug to let his skin breath and let him have a good old roll - you will be surprised how well horses cope in cold weather without rugs and in fact often better to under rug than over rug - I stopped and asked myself am i rugging my mare for my satisfaction or her well being (and yes if she needed a rug I have a very large wardrobe of them lol  )


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## MerrySherryRider (22 February 2012)

Mrs B said:



			Welcome back, Sam...

Click to expand...

 bit obvious wasn't it ?


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## 1973horse (22 February 2012)

right ok so was sam the wonder horse  Samantha uk.


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## indie999 (22 February 2012)

I think its the capital letters that made me go cold!


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## Moomin1 (22 February 2012)

I'm confused?!!!  Who's who and what's what?!!


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## MerrySherryRider (22 February 2012)

1973horse said:



			right ok so was sam the wonder horse  Samantha uk. 

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No. Samantha UK is a young girl, whereas sam the wonderhorse (now badtothebone) was/is a poster who apparently thought the OP's post was directly pointed at her and claimed to know her personally.


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## 1973horse (22 February 2012)

thankyou for clearing that up


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## PolarSkye (22 February 2012)

Yes, I KNOW I have the option not to read this . . . and tbh I haven't read the whole thread, but . . . aren't we well and truly done with this yet?  Yeesh.

P


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## MagicMelon (23 February 2012)

Winklepoker said:



			My horse is wearing so many rugs - most of you would lose hair over it!
		
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Erm, see I find that pretty horrid.  OVER rugging isn't comfortable for the horse.  Imagine having tonnes of thick layers put on you that you have to live in day in day out!  Your horse is probably TOO hot which IMO is worse than being a bit too cold!  Horses can make themselves warm up if they're out by moving around, they can't cool down though...  

My horse is trace clipped at the moment but I chucked him out without a rug yesterday (wasn't minus temps but even so, if its a bright day why not if its just for a couple of hours).  They love to have a good roll rugless!


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## Moomin1 (23 February 2012)

MagicMelon said:



			Erm, see I find that pretty horrid.  OVER rugging isn't comfortable for the horse.  Imagine having tonnes of thick layers put on you that you have to live in day in day out!  Your horse is probably TOO hot which IMO is worse than being a bit too cold!  Horses can make themselves warm up if they're out by moving around, they can't cool down though...  

My horse is trace clipped at the moment but I chucked him out without a rug yesterday (wasn't minus temps but even so, if its a bright day why not if its just for a couple of hours).  They love to have a good roll rugless!
		
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Agree with this.  I am nothing short of DISGUSTED at seeing some horses out today with  combo rugs and some of them in mediumweights/heavyweights.  It's 18 degrees here and to me it's barbaric.  My mare is clipped and she's been naked for three days now!


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## Ancient Hacker (23 February 2012)

I think we need to refer this thread to Papa Frita for some good advice.... perhaps there's a series of video's, books, special halters etc that could assist us in knowing how much rug to use 

ONE great thing that has come out of this rather long thread- I'm seriously going to pack away the rugs for good.  I don't want my horses "toasty"! I want them comfortable, not sweaty. I live at the southernmost tip of Africa, for goodness sake, AND the creatures sleep in at night anyway


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## Casey76 (23 February 2012)

I know this is an old thread... and I haven't read it all, but really!

We've just come through three weeks of very cold weather (-20C over night and -10C during the day)  

The horses on both yards where I keep my riding hrose and my foal aren't rugged, in or out.

We will put a cooler on, if the horses have sweated up during exercise, until they dry off, but then they come off again.

If horses have access to forage, then it is perfectly OK for them to be out in cold weather with a bib or low trace clip.

If the horse has a blanket or hunter clip, then a cover might be needed if the weather is damp, but if it is sunny and turn out is only for a couple of hours...

I always amazes me in the UK, how many blankets people pile on the horses, even hardy breeds and natives.


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## The-mad-cat-lady (23 February 2012)

Yes Ancient hacker..
Papa Deutsche does have a head collar in her website that changes colour to indicate how many rugs you need to put on . It comes with an easy to read colour chart and retails at £782.04...


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## Marydoll (23 February 2012)

Agree with this. I am nothing short of DISGUSTED at seeing some horses out today with combo rugs and some of them in mediumweights/heavyweights. It's 18 degrees here and to me it's barbaric. My mare is clipped and she's been naked for three days now!
You're lucky, it's nowhere near that here, it's pissing down and not warm, my guys are still rugged, albeit light fills


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## Marydoll (23 February 2012)

Ignore my last post as you can see it doesn't make sense lol 
Bloomin phone.
Not warm here, peeing wi rain my guys in light weights. Wish it was 18 degrees :-(


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## JAGER BOMB :) (23 February 2012)

one of mine is not rugged in winter, but my other one is.she is very fine and doesnt really get a good winter coat so she was rugged however my other one has a very very good winter coat and resembles a mamouth so have not rugged him, tbh if i do he sweats so much even in a middle weight. i refuse to clip as i think (my opinion ) that it is pointless to clip and rug if they are ok to go rugless with a good winter coat. he is actually on a diet at the moment because he has put on so much weight over winter i had to buy a new gullet bar for my saddle and a larger girth and he is now only on hay  rather than hay and hard feed. 

he is happier without his rug on and if i try to rugg him he tries to pull it off anyway he can afterwards (unless it is his summer sheet)

my mare however is opposite she is a bad doer in winter she is fed 4 times a day (little and often) and hay and has had a full neck turn out on, when it was -7 the  other day she had her middle weight and the full neck on  while fat boy was rolling in the snow. i suppose it depends on the breed. x


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## tracyandtokyo (24 February 2012)

To be fair though, a lot of it depends on how naturally warm your horse is anyway. 
My TB gelding struggles to keep himself warm, therefore is only trace clipped and even with that he had a wetherbeeta heavyweight on, and a newmarket 'thick' fleece on underneath. 
Where as there is a TB next to me, with exactly the same clip who naturally keeps himself warm, so needing lighter rugs.
 I agree though, if my horse kept himself warmer id rug to suit him, ideally i'd love for him to not need to be clipped and have no rugs but in an ideal world, its not going to happen!!


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