# Getting a young horse hacking on his own??



## Starbucks (29 May 2012)

I'd like your advice please, and want stright forward, get on with it advice rather than NL kind of advice!

So new horse Smiley is a scardy pants out on his own. It's sometimes because he doesn't like something but sometimes just plain nappiness. He doesn't whip round that quick but once he's turned round it's difficult to make him go forwards, he likes to go backwards, mini rears, wants to bugger off in the other direction and the more you push him the more he reacts.

If I can make him trot back, turn round somewhere and then trot, shout at him and give him a slap on the neck he will go, but I could have problems at something really scary.. He'l happily follow a person he doesn't even know past anything, so I don't think he wants to be naughty.

I'm not really the kind of person to mess about though and I expect him to go if I ask him.  But don't want to end up in a huge battle with him.

My question is - would it be better to let him hack in company until he gets more comfortable, or will this just make him worse? Would I be better making him go on his own and if the worst came to the worst get off and lead him past??

He's not scary or dangerous and we hack on very quiet tiny lanes BTW.

Any thoughts would be good...


----------



## meesha (29 May 2012)

from day one I hacked my newly backed chap on his own (no choice as on own yard) he knew no different and was always good as gold (obviously the odd moment when I met the ground but hey ho) - however he did lose his confidence after we had a long hack home when he wouldnt load - I would then hack him out - he would stop and refuse to go forward - I stayed calm - got off walked with him for 5 mins got back on - carried on with hack for short time before coming home (key is not to turn for home once get back on) this worked for us as he is generally brave and had just lost a little confidence - I only had to do it 3 or 4 times and it avoided a big battle !!

good luck


----------



## Georgie1989 (29 May 2012)

I am in a similar situation with my young one. There are some things out hacking that he geuinely doesn't understand and needs time to look at. He doesn't spin, charge off or do anything nasty, the worst thing he does is reverse quite fast whilst continuing to stare at whatever it is that is scaring him. I now ride with a longish leap rope so that when he does this and isn't confident enough to walk past something on his own. I calmy dismount, clip his rope through the bit and walk him past it. I then get back on again a bit further down the road and ride calmy like nothing has happened.

Like you, I don't want it to turn into a battle but it's hard knowing what to do. Leading seems to help though. Hacking out in company every other ride is also a good idea. That way they learn that scary bush monsters are actually OK. Good luck, I hope things get better soon


----------



## seabsicuit2 (29 May 2012)

Always hack in company whenever possible, its not worth the battles... then when confident do short little hacks on own and then back to hacking in company again..then back to being on own. Actually I think its pretty rare for a decent comp horse to hack alone!


----------



## Starbucks (29 May 2012)

Thanks.  He's grown up enough to go round a XC course and to go hunting so I'm sure he's grown up enough to go on a little ride round the lanes on his own!

I'm hoping the growling at him, trotting and neck slaps will work, I'm not willing for him to get the better of me but don't want to have to batter him either! :-/


----------



## Leg_end (29 May 2012)

Sometimes backwards works too! With MiLs horse we would back him past something scary, turn him the right way and continue. It's far harder for them to go backwards so he soon learnt that forwards motion was better  

I would maybe take him out a few times in company, let him go in front and see what he's like and then try again alone.


----------



## Starbucks (29 May 2012)

seabsicuit2 said:



			Always hack in company whenever possible, its not worth the battles... then when confident do short little hacks on own and then back to hacking in company again..then back to being on own. Actually I think its pretty rare for a decent comp horse to hack alone!
		
Click to expand...

He's a little 5yo semi coblington so hardly a decent competition horse, but I'm sure he will be! 

I think I disagree with you though, my horse is a decent competition horse and manages to behave most of the time.  I grew up with no school so they have to hack out, some times alone, even if they are little *****s!


----------



## WeeBrown (30 May 2012)

I'll be interested by your feedback.  Mine - 6 - won't now hack on her own.  She did when I got her and I don't know why she has stopped.  The last yard we were on had really long fast roads leading to off road woods and fields but the new yard has nothing but windy country lanes.  She has always, since I got her, been funny when heading towards corners but we hacked with others and she led with little fuss.  Now, at this new yard, she is funny even when hacking with others and will try to get behind others.  I decided to stop hacking with others and try on our own.  This was initially met with mini rears just off our driveway the first time and then mini rears at every white road marking.  I could reverse her past stuff but then she got wise and now just spins around.  Tonight I got no further than the first lane.  She will go forward if OH walks ahead, if a runner that we don't know goes ahead or even if a car goes ahead but as soon as they disappear out of view she is back to putting on the breaks and rearing.  The rears get bigger if I keep squeezing her or if I use my whip and growling doesn't work either.  I have tried waiting to give her time to process but as soon as she gets bored she tries to spin, goes sideways til she is facing the opposite way and tries to tank off.  I'm at a loss because as soon as we go back to the menege she will work in a lovely outline with no stress at all.  Sorry for hijacking, just mine sounds a bit similar.


----------



## almorton (30 May 2012)

we produce a lot of young horses, and mine HAVE to hack alone, its not optional!
they are prepped properly with an older schoolmaster then get taken on short hacks and no is not an option!
they have to go it alone in the ring from 4yo so they can damn well walk up the road!  
the key is forwards, be positive and never ever give in or get off. take a short stick and a high viz. spurs if necessary but they go! 
obviously i wouldnt take them in heavy traffic but mine have to walk past tankers, motorbikes and vans etc or at least stand in a driveway while they come past.
TIP - ensure your flatwork is up to speed first!!


----------



## almorton (30 May 2012)

and ALL of our competition horses hack alone (and yes they are decent lol), novices and the open graded horses!!
why not? no point getting in a ring at a county show n spooking at a tractor is there!


----------



## Starbucks (30 May 2012)

Thanks A, he is just going to have to do it.  Spurs may help... thanks..

I know he's nervous but i'm saying GO! and he has to go where I want him to go, not where he wants to go.  I don't wan't to completely batter him, but spurs will help I think. 

Thanks. xxx


----------



## TarrSteps (30 May 2012)

almorton said:



			they are prepped properly with an older schoolmaster then get taken on short hacks and no is not an option!

TIP - ensure your flatwork is up to speed first!! 

Click to expand...

Those are pretty important points, though!  I meet a lot of horses with 'problems' whose basic problem is they don't really understand the aids!  And this is not fixed by laying on the lumber - a "reminder" will work with a horse that is testing the limits but not if, from the horse's point of view, it comes out of nowhere.

It's trickier if you don't have a schoolmaster, too.  Then you might very well have to press into service a human stand in if a horse is struggling.  (I actually like this option if I don't have a very reliable horse to use, as then I don't have to worry about what the other horse or rider might do.)

I would also argue you know what you're up to, you're calm, competent and confident, and your horses have a great deal of faith in you.  This can make a world of difference.

Sorry, that sounds like I'm arguing, which is not at all the case.  I completely agree with your advice and I'm sure it's exactly what the OP is looking for.  I'm merely saying that other people in other situations shouldn't think that, if they find another solution, that they're necessarily doing it "wrong".


----------



## Mike007 (30 May 2012)

Starbucks said:



			Thanks.  He's grown up enough to go round a XC course and to go hunting so I'm sure he's grown up enough to go on a little ride round the lanes on his own!

I'm hoping the growling at him, trotting and neck slaps will work, I'm not willing for him to get the better of me but don't want to have to batter him either! :-/
		
Click to expand...

Starbucks , Hell will freeze over before you batter a horse. Its all about confidence . a confident rider passes this on to his/her horse. The sooner they get out hacking , the sooner their education starts.


----------



## siennamum (30 May 2012)

I think it depends whether the horse is really napping rudely or jibbing because it hasn't sufficient confidence. If the horse ignores you when you give him a smack on the bum, then you won't be able to bully him along, I suspect you feel he could plant and there will be nothing you can do about it, which you really don't want. Punishing him in these circumstances will turn into a war of attrition and you will make him resentful.

In your place I would work on building up confidence in company, letting horse take the lead, having arguments about small things, making him take the lead past spooky things. I would crack on with the schooling so that he properly understands what you are asking him and so that when you leg yield past something he can't say no. It just takes a bit longer.


----------



## PorkChop (30 May 2012)

All good advice, but if all else fails, I'm a great fan of long-reining through a problem like this, if there is a particular place that he naps - especially if you don't have a lot of help.


----------



## Starbucks (30 May 2012)

Thanks guys. The school master is the one he's replacing unfortunately:-( i didn't think Badger ever spun round but he did on the first ride with smiley! Not really setting a good example Badger!

I think I'll just mix it up a bit then with on his own and will try to find someone sensible to go with.. Obviously working on his flatwork as well. Sure he'll be fine in the end..


----------



## Gamebird (30 May 2012)

LJR said:



			All good advice, but if all else fails, I'm a great fan of long-reining through a problem like this, if there is a particular place that he naps - especially if you don't have a lot of help.
		
Click to expand...

It's too late for Starbucks but I also 'hack' mine out in long-reins when I'm breaking them in. I like it because it's a lot less dull than long-reining round the school and because the horse is in front so it's not relying on a lead, equine or human.

When they first go out ridden (as soon as they're reliable to get on and off and walk, trot, stop and turn - I probably hack them out sooner than most people) I generally take someone on foot or on a bike with me. That person stays behind unless there's a problem when they came come to the horse's head and give it confidence for a bit then drop back again. If there's a proper confidence issue (rare) they can go back on the long-reins for a few days. I guess it helps that I have lots of quiet lanes.


----------



## Maesfen (30 May 2012)

Agree with all the good advice above, especially Almorten and Gamebird.
Make turn on the forehand and rein back your friend so that you can calmly (as if it was a plan from you) execute them past the scary thing but also stock up on patience by the bucketful so that if he does plant, then plant him there facing scary object; don't let him move however long it takes and you'll know when that is because he'll start breathing again!  Sing, talk to yourself or smoke to keep you amused while he stands there stock still, when he's breathing again normally don't let him move even if he wants to until you give the order then make him march on.  Eventually the planting will stop but it does take time.  Perversely, I'm against going out in company until he is foot perfect by himself, you want him to listen to you not be watching others.  I'd also favour lots of long reining to enforce the forward habit.


----------



## wildcard (30 May 2012)

Not sure if its of any help but i totally agree with everything Gamebird has just suggested. Long reining out hacking was the best thing i did with my mare when i broke her in.. she learnt from the word go that she has to be in front and she has to go forward when asked. 

When i did start riding her, i did have a few occasions where she spun, rears and decided she didnt want to go in the direction i thought we were.. I stayed really calm and (tried to act confident) and just was persistent, small smacks where necessary but never gave up  and dont get off ..  it once took me near on 20minutes to get down our small lane, i didnt care how we went forwards,backwards but we were going.. 

shes 4  now and leads all the other horses out now and is as brave as a lion.. just persaveer you dont have to beat anything up but be firm and stubborn is what id suggest..


----------



## Firewell (30 May 2012)

I would say maybe start out with shorter hacks on his own and gradually make them longer. The usual rubbish about never turning them back on themselves ect.
Mine used to be a bit of a dork, still can be. He never used to nap away from the yard but would spin if he saw something scary or lost confidence.
I would just spin him back again with a slap down the shoulder he had escaped through. Naughty, not allowed to spin!! He doesn't spin anymore but will still stop dead if for some reason he doesnt want to walk past something. 
Tbh I can't be bothered to get cross with him anymore, if i smack or shout he just starts to go backwards or he tries to gallop past the object in a panick. Now I just sit there, check my phone, ignore him. Its not long before he wants to get going again. If he wants to go forwards but is doubtful i.e a little worried about something scary (like a house being demolished!) then i give him a kick and a jolly and thats enough usually to let him know i'm backing him up, sometimes he likes to trot past things hes worried about.
I think a lot of it is down to partnership, I know my horse now. I think as long as you are firm and dont lose your rag and you never let him get away with it then he'll get better as par for the course . Sometimes I do think it helps though to let them look and process what they are worried about. I think if you try to bully and hassle them past something before they are ready it can make things worse. Then again I dont think they should be allowed to get away with anything either.


----------



## TarrSteps (30 May 2012)

I'm another who uses long reining, especially if I'm on my own and/or I think the horse might try something very silly. It doesn't solve all the problems but it's a good middle step for many horses and, for retraining, it's a way of removing one variable.


----------



## Miss L Toe (30 May 2012)

Mike007 said:



			Starbucks , Hell will freeze over before you batter a horse. Its all about confidence . a confident rider passes this on to his/her horse. The sooner they get out hacking , the sooner their education starts.
		
Click to expand...

It is a confidence issue no doubt, and it is almost certainly mutual, you MUST only go out when you are at your most determined, make sure he is schooling properly, then hack after.
Get some lessons with an experienced instructor, make sure he has a good workout, up to his level of fitness.
Carry a schooling whip and rat tat tap on his flanks if he shows ANY sign of backwards thinking, no exceptions, he must be going forwards at all time. Your response must be immediate, clear and consistent.
Make sure you don't faff about with praise when he is in fact standing still with eyes out on stalks, try to hack on a circular route.


----------



## Polotash (30 May 2012)

With my young horses I walk them out alone before they are backed so they learn to take confidence from me. Then when I back them, I take a helper, walk them as before, then when they are being calm I jump on and ride for a while, and then lead them again for a bit, slowly working up to a short ride. Once they start in company I make them go along side all the time, and take it in turns to go at the front - they're never allowed to slither in behind, but if the really "stick" at something I allow them a lead, then straight back in front again.

When they get a bit older and start trying it on I'll then have the argument with them and find two strategies quite good. Firstly, if they want to go backwards, then make them go backwards, they soon get fed up with reversing 100 yards down the lane. Secondly, have a helper on the ground behind you and pepper the horses bum with sand/ grit when they refuse to go off your leg (this works best in a school when they're nappy!). They don't like things raining on their bums, and it sends them forward without resorting to walloping them, which can cause more explosions than whatever upsettled them in the first place!


----------



## Sameru (30 May 2012)

I am successfully dealing with this exact issue only mine will go bolt up rightif I pushed him!  I long reined a lot round the route I planned to do first -  he was fine with some encouragement, then I rode the route, had a few hairy moments  I flick him fast and sharp a few times with the schooling whip and he goes forwards.  I would rather power on forwards without hesitation than let him look.  We are doing new routes now with the same tactics, swack swack with the whip encouraging voice and pat pat when your settled again.  I have had to get off at the horse eating cows and lead him past but im not worried by that, somethings are just going to take a bit longer.  If you can feel him backing off waggle the whip and send it forwards. After a few times he would go forward if a everso slightly moved the whip so no need for the smack


----------



## Sameru (30 May 2012)

Miss L Toe said:



			It is a confidence issue no doubt, and it is almost certainly mutual, you MUST only go out when you are at your most determined, make sure he is schooling properly, then hack after.
Get some lessons with an experienced instructor, make sure he has a good workout, up to his level of fitness.
Carry a schooling whip and rat tat tap on his flanks if he shows ANY sign of backwards thinking, no exceptions, he must be going forwards at all time. Your response must be immediate, clear and consistent.
Make sure you don't faff about with praise when he is in fact standing still with eyes out on stalks, try to hack on a circular route.
		
Click to expand...

EXACTLY THIS


----------



## Starbucks (30 May 2012)

Miss L Toe said:



			It is a confidence issue no doubt, and it is almost certainly mutual, you MUST only go out when you are at your most determined, make sure he is schooling properly, then hack after.
Get some lessons with an experienced instructor, make sure he has a good workout, up to his level of fitness.
Carry a schooling whip and rat tat tap on his flanks if he shows ANY sign of backwards thinking, no exceptions, he must be going forwards at all time. Your response must be immediate, clear and consistent.
Make sure you don't faff about with praise when he is in fact standing still with eyes out on stalks, try to hack on a circular route.
		
Click to expand...

I don't think I have any confidence issues out hacking! But I know what you mean.  The first day when he kept prating about at different things I wasn't really feeling very determined but then the next time (when he decided he didn't want to set off at all) I'd had a rather bad day and was not up for taking any s**t! After the inital performance he was good on that day.

The very first day I took him he was fine and it was after I'd ridden him in the school/jumped him, so workout first is definitely a good plan. 

It really makes me appreciate our other horses who go out with no fuss!


----------



## KatB (30 May 2012)

I would get him out in company to get used to the area nd what he may see, then on his own from there. This is generally what i've done with all mine, and they've never had a problem hacing out on their own.


----------



## Saucisson (30 May 2012)

I'm no expert but my chap was terrible for hacking when I fiirst had him.  Fortunatly, I had an experienced rider to help me and I'm afraid to say it was just hard work and legs (for experienced rider) and hard work/falling off for me.  But we never gave up.  

We would hack him out with a more experienced horse but still make him go in front which wasn't always easy but with (lots) of time and  patience we got there in the end.  He's like a little 4x4 now if he knows the routes but if he doesn't it can be back to square one.  I have to get off and lead him if needs be.

BUT, mine is a silly horse but not a nasty one and once he understands, he will go for it.  It has taken us 3 years together for him to be confident enough in me to go forward off my leg when he's not sure about something  (may be something to do with my cruddy riding too )

Giving him a crack doesn't work as he just gets more obstinate and defensive.  I know it works with some horses to just give them that bit of confidence but mine works better with the "carrot" it has to be said.  

I'm currently training him in traffic and have I have changed tactics recently to just rewarding him every time he doesn't react to a car - the greedy little fecker won't move now even if his heart is pounding through his chest!  Result


----------



## Horse-Rider (2 June 2012)

Im far from cruel but nappyness i cannot deal with nappyness , my horse should be able to happily ride out on its own or in company (wether it be 1other or a hunting field full of horses) 

I find They need confidence . If they got this (too an extent) then its rudeness .

Take 2 schooling whips - 1 in each hand , and "MAKE" him , after a few clips with these s/he should realise , also find a nice small standard martingale to keep their head down at a level where you got the bit in your hands (without the horse raising its head) This makes it 100x easier and you can focus on the FORWARD MOVEMENT . 

Maybe if you dont like that approach try getting your horse "active off the leg" lots of transitions in the school , so if a forceful kick was given they wouldnt like it and move forward .

Another idea is , try and take another horse out with you , but leave a good 100yrds between you . stand him as the horse walks off and then leave him catch up . slowly increase the distance to where he is "looking" for the other horse . That may soon help him over come his fear/ nappyness of being alone. He'll have the idea that his buddy is just infront , just that little bit further, and before you know it , your back home


----------



## scribble (2 June 2012)

I am another one that from day one hacked my mare on her own. she did all of the above but i just sat there with her, yes she did get a smack and a kick and shouted at when she reared but if she tried to turn round then got turned back the way we were going.  they have to learn to deal with scary things and turst you that it is ok and wlak past it.  lots of praise when they do and tlak to them but they must go.  I also had someone walk a way behind me with a lunge whip for 2-3 rides just to break the "i am going to stop rear and turn round thing " before it bacame a habit.


----------

