# Dummy foals. Your experiences/advice please.



## Enfys (30 June 2013)

Please.

Super filly born yesterday, just not right.

She had colic symptoms within 3 hours of birth, Vet whizzed straight out and did all the stuff, enema (huge poo), intubated with colostrum, all the usual bloods etc. Vet thinking possible LWO or Dummy. 

She just doesn't seem right, she goes to nurse but is very slow and doesn't seem to suckle properly.


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## Fools Motto (30 June 2013)

Yay for super filly.
Sorry she isn't quite right. My only (good) experience was to allow a bit more time, and foaly was much better after a few days. A couple of weeks old and he was fine.
Sadly though, there was one who was clearly very 'dummified'  and lost him 24 hrs. It was, for him a no-hoper from the word go sadly.


How was the birth? Did she get stuck?


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## GinnieRedwings (30 June 2013)

No experience, but plenty of good healing vibes sent your way xxx


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## whirlwindhorses (30 June 2013)

Gorgeous filly. Sorry to hear shes not quite right. I will pm you.


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## whirlwindhorses (30 June 2013)

I can't pm you!


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## Spring Feather (30 June 2013)

Not one of my own but a friends mare foaled a dummy foal.  It was a traumatic birth, foal was stuck in the birth canal and was still stuck when I arrived at her farm 20 mins later to help.  I righted the presentation and helped the mare deliver.  Foal was clearly dummy.  He couldn't lie upright and was very floppy so I banked straw around him to hold him in place.  He took a fairly long time to get up, needed an enema which sort of got things going a little.  Once up he wasn't helped by the mare who was a total knobber and wouldn't let him suckle.  Restrained the mare, helped the foal get some colostrum and told owner to make sure they assisted feeding for at the very least 24 hours and certainly until mare accepted him.  It took a few days before the foal made a full recovery, but he did make a full recovery.


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## JanetGeorge (30 June 2013)

I had one 6 years ago who was unable to get up for 7 days, let alone suckle.  I tried him hourly with a bottle (after holding him in an upright position and stimulating him to actually look like he was alive) but while he would sometimes take200 ml, he never took enough and he had a number of stomach tube feedings and iv drips.  I also had to turn him hourly and exercise his legs for him so his circulation wouldn't  collapse and he wouldn't get pressure sores.  On day 8, he got up unaided and started suckling from his Mum for the first time in his life - she was a maiden and had been perplexed by him but was a very good Mum.  He's now a fantastic horse with an owner who adores him, and has never put a foot wrong in his life (since spending a week trying to die!)  As long as she gets plenty of food, and there is no underlying problem, she should be fine.


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## hayinamanger (30 June 2013)

I have no experience of this, Enfys, but I just want to wish you well with this lovely filly.


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## Cinnamontoast (30 June 2013)

Can you get her scanned to check her gut in case she is LWO? Did you DNA test dam and sire before breeding? I hope she's not LWO and that she comes out right.


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## Blanche (30 June 2013)

No experience of this but just want to wish you and the mare and foal well . She is a lovely paint filly , is she by Zeus ( I have it in my head that is your boy's name but I may be wrong ! Won't be the first time .)


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## elsielouise (30 June 2013)

We had a dummy last year. Didnt suckle at birth so ended up tubing her for first 48 hours and watching like a hawk for her starting to suckle so tube could be taken out. She is now 13 months old and you'd never know.

If vet thinks she is a dummy they may advise plasma transfusion if worried about antibodies and infection but they can come through this. A job for veterinary support without question though.


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## Spanny (30 June 2013)

Beautiful girl. It's really good to hear so many stories of positive outcomes. Keeping everything crossed for you OP.


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## Enfys (1 July 2013)

Thankyou everyone, time is at a premium right now, but there are things I wanted to say and ask, just not right now, feed time - again. 



cinnamontoast said:



			Can you get her scanned to check her gut in case she is LWO? *Did you DNA test dam and sire before breeding?* I hope she's not LWO and that she comes out right.
		
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Mare and stallion are both DNA'd. Only one is an overo paint, and, although it means nothing statistically, the four other full siblings have been fine - but, not patterned, and not a filly... all things to be taken into consideration. 

Anyway, she's tubed and still battling, but prognosis is still poor.


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## Feival (1 July 2013)

Can I ask, why is her head wrapped up??. She's lovely and I really hope she pulls through.


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## flaxen (1 July 2013)

VSF Grey Lady, she has a nasogastric feeding tube inserted up her nose and down into her stomach and although they are usually sutured in the bandage/ stocking on her head is to help keep it in and stop her rubbing it out.


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## Feival (1 July 2013)

I see, thank you for the explanation. Not something I've come across before.


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## Coblover63 (1 July 2013)

Oh bless you, Enfys, you must be so worried.  Fingers tightly crossed that your lovely little lady pulls through xxx


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## martlin (1 July 2013)

Fingers crossed for the little one, Enfys, I hope she works out alright!


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## Hedgewitch13 (1 July 2013)

I really hope she pulls through. It's actually made me a little weepy reading this  Be strong little sweetie x


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## Thistle (1 July 2013)

Fingers tightly crossed for the foal. Hope she pulls through.


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## Megibo (1 July 2013)

Best wishes for a good recovery x


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## JanetGeorge (1 July 2013)

Enfys said:



			Anyway, she's tubed and still battling, but prognosis is still poor.
		
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Hey, don't be a pessimist.  If she's a dummy, she's standing (so not as bad as some who have survived) and she's tubed - so can be kept fed (many die of starvation/dehydration.)

Has the vet decided she IS a dummy - or is there another problem??


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## Murphy88 (1 July 2013)

I agree with Janet George, if being dummy is the only issue then if she is still standing at this stage I would be hopeful of a recovery. In perfect conditions (ie foal is hospitalised in intensive care), 80% of dummies survive, and I have known foals unable to stand for over 7 days, many of whom seizure for 24-48 hours in the middle, recover fully. The issues arise in that as well as the neurological issues, dummy foals can also have gut and kidney issues - the severe cases need IV fluids because they are unable to tolerate any feeding, and drugs to help regulate kidney function. If she is tolerating milk feedings, that is a good sign, and as long as she keeps her strength up over the next few days while her brain catches up then she should start to work out feeding herself. Generally if dummies are going to go downhill and start seizuring they do it by 48 hours old, so if she is still up and bright at this stage then fingers crossed.


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## Queenbee (1 July 2013)

hayinamanger said:



			I have no experience of this, Enfys, but I just want to wish you well with this lovely filly.
		
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^^^this^^^ I have no experience either, but I just wanted to say there are some very warming stories on this thread and I hope Super Filly (for that will be her name xx) pulls through xx   Sending all the vibes possible for SF, you and her beautiful dam xx


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## Queenbee (1 July 2013)

Hedgewitch13 said:



			I really hope she pulls through. It's actually made me a little weepy reading this  Be strong little sweetie x
		
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Me too, if anyone is religious... pray for super filly tonight, and if anyone isnt religious... pray for super filly tonight...

Enfys I know I have already posted but gods!!  Thinking of you and SF xx


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## gadetra (2 July 2013)

I have no advice but I wish you and the filly the best of luck and s fighting chance. She looks good and strong, she's on her feet and getting her nutrition, that's a start. fingers crossed she starts to pick up soon. She is the spit of your mare! Keep going super filly x


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## alainax (2 July 2013)

I had no idea what Lwo was, so googled it. They say that the foals born with this condition are almost completely white. She has a lot of brown on her, so if google is anything to go by then it might not be that  

Good luck


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## Venevidivici (2 July 2013)

Everything crossed for your filly (She does indeed already look like a 'SuperFilly' superhero-what with her stocking 'mask' ,she just needs a cape) Get strong little one


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## rachi0 (2 July 2013)

Hi - I have had a lot of experience with dummy foals!

Had some die... most have lived! 

The worst one (that survived) couldn't stand for 2 weeks and couldn't nurse as had no suck reflex for over 3 weeks! very very frustrating!!! 

Hope your little one pulls through!
Normally once the penny drops everything with them is normal!


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## Victoria25 (2 July 2013)

No advice but sending much love and best wishes to you both  xx


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## Dry Rot (2 July 2013)

Oh, you poor thing! Been there, done that. Hope you are getting enough sleep.

Is the foal sucking from a bottle at all? I've had just one like this but plenty of lambs. With lambs, we stomach tube (horses have to be tubed nasally as you are doing) or they become fixated on the bottle.  I'm told horses are different again and (apparently) do not develop the fixation. 

Rightly or wrongly, I assumed that my foal should be encouraged to suck, didn't tube, so would milk the mare out every three hours and then bottle feed. Then gradually got the foal sucking from the mare, which was the difficult part! It surprised me how easy it  was to milk the mare and after the first day I did not even bother to tie her up.

It is worth persisting as it can be done. You'll get an incredible buzz when it all comes together and you succeed -- as I'm sure you will! But until then it is frustrating, tiring, and exasperating. Good luck.


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## Enfys (2 July 2013)

I would like to Thank all of you for your experiences, advice and best wishes for Freya. It is very encouraging to read so many good endings from people who have dealt with this before, often HHO can be such a bitchfest but when it comes down to it the support is always there. 

Update here: http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=622108


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