# do you check your horse twice a day



## Holidays_are_coming (17 April 2014)

I have just moved yards and now the horses are out 24/7 it seems I am the only person checking my horse twice a day. I have always done this and couldn't not do it as what if he has a accident.


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## HufflyPuffly (17 April 2014)

They are always checked at least twice a day, by both me and my mum all year round. On the days I work from home they are checked three times. I can never understand people who are happy to only come once...


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## tinap (17 April 2014)

Yes I still do when out 24/7 although I know many on the same yard that dont go down for days on end (yo does live on site though)


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## vikkiandmonica (17 April 2014)

When ours were out 24/7 over summer I only went down in the afternoon/evenings after school. However, it was quite a busy yard so there were always people around during the day, so if there was an accident in the morning someone would have noticed and called me. Luckily that never happened though.


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## Doormouse (17 April 2014)

vikkiandmonica said:



			When ours were out 24/7 over summer I only went down in the afternoon/evenings after school. However, it was quite a busy yard so there were always people around during the day, so if there was an accident in the morning someone would have noticed and called me. Luckily that never happened though.
		
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Thats all well and good that someone would have noticed and called you but what if it was an emergency and the horse needed to be got in and the vet called straight away. Why should someone else do that for your horses?

I have liveries that only come up once a day when their horses are out and it drives me mad. Fly masks are forever coming off and I hate seeing the horse looking unhappy because the mask is off so I go and put it back on, but by the time I've done several in the morning I am running late and don't have the time I wanted for mine. Why should I have to do that for people who can't be bothered to come up twice a day?


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## paddi22 (17 April 2014)

i'l get shot down now but i only get to check mine once a day. They aren't rugged or have fly masks so nothing like that can come off. I do my best to have them in a safe secure field with tons of space and I just have to hope all goes well. I don't have the time to drop down morning and evening. I bring them up to ride and check them in yard, and then they are left down again to field till next day


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## magicmoose (17 April 2014)

Mine check me!! 

As soon as I open the door to come out of the house, or pull up in the car, there they are. I would like to think that its because they love me, but I know that they are just hopeful of being fed!


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## webble (17 April 2014)

No I go down once but she is in a field next to YO house so she checks them in person at least once (ther horse is her horse) too plus her windows look onto the field and her neighbour at the other end of the field can see them too so pretty much 24/7 checks!


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## Moomin1 (17 April 2014)

I always check mine twice a day when she is out 24/7.   

There have been people at the yard previously who haven't even bothered coming up twice a day even when their horse is stabled 24/7, nevermind out 24/7.  :-(


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## MerrySherryRider (17 April 2014)

I usually go down twice a day when they are out 24/7 but if the weather isn't too hot or changeable, I may go just once.
 I know that everyone and the YO's look out for each others horses. There have been many times when between checks, I have attended to other people's horses and contacted the owner, as they have for me. 

Even when checking twice a day, they may still become ill or injured between visits, so knowing that someone would help if needed is important.


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## webble (17 April 2014)

Doormouse said:



			Thats all well and good that someone would have noticed and called you but what if it was an emergency and the horse needed to be got in and the vet called straight away. Why should someone else do that for your horses?

I have liveries that only come up once a day when their horses are out and it drives me mad. Fly masks are forever coming off and I hate seeing the horse looking unhappy because the mask is off so I go and put it back on, but by the time I've done several in the morning I am running late and don't have the time I wanted for mine. Why should I have to do that for people who can't be bothered to come up twice a day?
		
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But that could still happen even if they were up twice  day a mask could have been off for a few hours. If a horse has an accident i would really hope someone isnt going to see it and leave it because the owner will be up in two hours I would hope they would cll the owner, maybe call the vets and get the horse in


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## soulfull (17 April 2014)

Doormouse said:



			Thats all well and good that someone would have noticed and called you but what if it was an emergency and the horse needed to be got in and the vet called straight away. Why should someone else do that for your horses?

I have liveries that only come up once a day when their horses are out and it drives me mad. Fly masks are forever coming off and I hate seeing the horse looking unhappy because the mask is off so I go and put it back on, but by the time I've done several in the morning I am running late and don't have the time I wanted for mine. Why should I have to do that for people who can't be bothered to come up twice a day?
		
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Even if checked twice a day these things can happen inbetween being checked!!

I pay someone to change rug in a morning if my mare is out of pay to have her turned out
Then I go down in pm.


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## Moomin1 (17 April 2014)

By law an owner or person responsible has to check a horse within reasonable time scales each day.  If someone is going up once per 24 hours, and nobody is checking that horse in between, then they are on a sticky wicket if something happens.

If there is a set arrangement for someone else to be keeping an eye out or checking them, fine, but otherwise it is not an acceptable excuse for someone to say 'well I knew so and so goes there every morning so they would tell me'.  Doesn't stand up in court I'm afraid.


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## Auslander (17 April 2014)

Doormouse said:



			Thats all well and good that someone would have noticed and called you but what if it was an emergency and the horse needed to be got in and the vet called straight away. Why should someone else do that for your horses?
		
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I would do that for another owner without a second thought, and I would hope that anyone would do the same for me. I certainly wouldn't keep my horses on a yard where helping out in an emergency situation would be seen as an inconvenience. 

i have my own place, and I'm in and out constantly throughout the day. If they were on livery, I'd check twice a day.


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## Nicnac (17 April 2014)

I check 3 x a day now when they're out 24/7 (hopefully by 1st May!).  Many years ago I was working up in the City and had to be at a client at 7am.  My family were away so I did the dogs in the morning and thought I'd leave the horses as they were fine when I'd checked at 11pm the previous night.  I keep the horses at home.  I knew I'd be home by 4pm that day.

I received a phone call at 11am from a neighbour who was walking his dog through our fields as he did every day to say one of my horses was dead in the field.  He couldn't tell me which one.  Mare who died was very old and probably just keeled over however I'll never know and still carry a huge amount of guilt 18 years on.


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## Holidays_are_coming (17 April 2014)

The yo is on site but im pretty certain she doesn't check them.

it drives me crazy and I will glance at the others but I don't have time to walk up to them and properly check them like I do my own. 

One girl is in easy cycling distance but would rather stay in bed, even on school holidays.


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## GlitterPup (17 April 2014)

Yes unless i'm spending the day down there!


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## budley95 (17 April 2014)

I share checking with a livery and turnout and brining in. I do the am she does the pm! and if I see anothers livery hose hobbling I'll go chck it - the amount of times I'v sorted out a tb that over reached constantly! And I'm fairly confident that all the other liveries would so the same


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## thewonderhorse (17 April 2014)

Yep check mine morning and night-time. They are in at night in the winter but in the summer I take the dog down the field twice daily to go and check them. Also because they are right next to my house I will have a look out and see if I can see them when i am at home so sometimes more than twice.


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## magicmoose (17 April 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			By law an owner or person responsible has to check a horse within reasonable time scales each day.  If someone is going up once per 24 hours, and nobody is checking that horse in between, then they are on a sticky wicket if something happens.

If there is a set arrangement for someone else to be keeping an eye out or checking them, fine, but otherwise it is not an acceptable excuse for someone to say 'well I knew so and so goes there every morning so they would tell me'.  Doesn't stand up in court I'm afraid.
		
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According to DEFRA's Code of Practice for the Welfare of Horses, Ponies, Donkeys and their Hybrids, which would be the guidelines used in court....

"Horses at grass should be inspected at least once a day, preferably more often. Stabled or group-housed horses should be inspected at least twice a day." 

So once a day would be acceptable in court, although I would always check my own animals at least twice.


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## Moomin1 (17 April 2014)

magicmoose said:



			According to DEFRA's Code of Practice for the Welfare of Horses, Ponies, Donkeys and their Hybrids, which would be the guidelines used in court....

"Horses at grass should be inspected at least once a day, preferably more often. Stabled or group-housed horses should be inspected at least twice a day." 

So once a day would be acceptable in court, although I would always check my own animals at least twice.
		
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If a horse broke a leg for instance, and had only been checked 24 hours previously, I can guarantee that would have the potential to go through court.   The DEFRA codes are used as guidelines quite often, but are not prescriptive for magistrates to use in every circumstance.  It all depends on the individual case, circumstances etc.


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## Doormouse (17 April 2014)

Auslander said:



			I would do that for another owner without a second thought, and I would hope that anyone would do the same for me. I certainly wouldn't keep my horses on a yard where helping out in an emergency situation would be seen as an inconvenience. 

i have my own place, and I'm in and out constantly throughout the day. If they were on livery, I'd check twice a day.
		
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Ok, I didn't put that very well. We all know and understand that horses can have an accident at any time of the day and because I am usually about most of the day I am perfectly happy to check and deal with any problems that happen when the other owners are at work etc. However, 9 times out of 10 the morning is the time when I find cuts, lumps, missing fly masks, rugs half off etc and I find that alot of the owners don't bother to come up in the mornings but come in the evening by which time I have already sorted all the things from the morning out.

I just think that expecting other people to check your horses is wrong, yes of course I do it because I would never leave an animal in trouble but essentially your horse is your responsibility not someone elses.


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## _GG_ (17 April 2014)

If there was nobody else there then yes I would go twice a day every day. We have three people in the one big field though and we all go up at different times of the day. Most often I go twice, I have to now to keep the water topped up with the sun, but going once is not an issue when they are out with plenty of grazing/hay and there are others to check on them. 

We all do it for each other as a thing of normality.


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## dianchi (17 April 2014)

No....................... but im on livery so someone else is turning out and mucking out in the morning, they bring in at night, I go up most eves to ride.


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## webble (17 April 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			By law an owner or person responsible has to check a horse within reasonable time scales each day.  If someone is going up once per 24 hours, and nobody is checking that horse in between, then they are on a sticky wicket if something happens.

If there is a set arrangement for someone else to be keeping an eye out or checking them, fine, but otherwise it is not an acceptable excuse for someone to say 'well I knew so and so goes there every morning so they would tell me'.  Doesn't stand up in court I'm afraid.
		
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What does the law class as reasonable time scales? Do they use the DEFRA 24rs at grass and twice a day stabled mentioned above? Also what classes as checking? eg topping up water and or hay and making sure there are still 4 legs and a tail?


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## vikkiandmonica (17 April 2014)

Doormouse said:



			Thats all well and good that someone would have noticed and called you but what if it was an emergency and the horse needed to be got in and the vet called straight away. Why should someone else do that for your horses?

I have liveries that only come up once a day when their horses are out and it drives me mad. Fly masks are forever coming off and I hate seeing the horse looking unhappy because the mask is off so I go and put it back on, but by the time I've done several in the morning I am running late and don't have the time I wanted for mine. Why should I have to do that for people who can't be bothered to come up twice a day?
		
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Whilst I completely understand that, I shared a field with some people who would go and check their horses in the morning, and whilst there would check the other horses and make sure there was water in the trough, and I would repay the favour when I went down in the afternoon. It was a very helpful yard where if you noticed a fly mask hanging off etc., you would nip into the field and sort it. Mine were out without rugs or fly masks in fields with good fencing, so were in as safe a situation as possible really. I understand that accidents could happen, but they can happen the 5 hours between visits or during the night. It isn't possible to always be there should an accident happen.


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## Doormouse (17 April 2014)

vikkiandmonica said:



			Whilst I completely understand that, I shared a field with some people who would go and check their horses in the morning, and whilst there would check the other horses and make sure there was water in the trough, and I would repay the favour when I went down in the afternoon. It was a very helpful yard where if you noticed a fly mask hanging off etc., you would nip into the field and sort it. Mine were out without rugs or fly masks in fields with good fencing, so were in as safe a situation as possible really. I understand that accidents could happen, but they can happen the 5 hours between visits or during the night. It isn't possible to always be there should an accident happen.
		
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That's completely fair enough if you are sharing a field and you check theirs to return the favour. Sorry, I wasn't really meaning to have a go at you its a very sore subject with me because every morning just at the moment my horses take 20 mins and then I spend another 30 mins sorting all the others out because I know their owners won't be up until the evening and I hate leaving them uncomfortable.


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## vikkiandmonica (17 April 2014)

Doormouse said:



			That's completely fair enough if you are sharing a field and you check theirs to return the favour. Sorry, I wasn't really meaning to have a go at you its a very sore subject with me because every morning just at the moment my horses take 20 mins and then I spend another 30 mins sorting all the others out because I know their owners won't be up until the evening and I hate leaving them uncomfortable.
		
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It's fine, I completely understand where you're coming from, especially given the circumstances you seem to have found yourself in! I was just lucky that the people I shared a field with were willing to check over mine in the morning and I would do the same in the evening. I think had I not of had that set up, I would have either paid the YO to go and check them in the morning, or tried to arrange to check them twice a day.


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## Moomin1 (17 April 2014)

webble said:



			What does the law class as reasonable time scales? Do they use the DEFRA 24rs at grass and twice a day stabled mentioned above? Also what classes as checking? eg topping up water and or hay and making sure there are still 4 legs and a tail?
		
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The five freedoms class as checking.  Provided an owner or person responsible has provided those five freedoms as is reasonable in all the circumstances, then that would be acceptable.  In many circumstances, popping up once every 24 hours is not going to be acceptable, if for instance said horse was on three legs and suffering since the day before with a badly broken leg. Similarly, if for instance water ran out and the horse got dehydrated in very hot weather, then 24 hour checking would be frowned upon in court as again, the freedoms have not been met.  It wouldn't be possible to take someone to court purely on the fact they only visit once in 24 hours, but if something happened to the horse resulting in it suffering, which could have been prevented by more frequent visits, then yes, that would have a high chance of being prosecutable.

ETA - the key thing in this circumstance is 'reasonable in all the circumstances'. So obviously if there was some reasonable circumstance in which someone could not have checked the horse more than once in that 24 hours, then it would be accepted.  Though there would be very few defences there really IMO.


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## diamonddogs (17 April 2014)

I only go once a day when she's out 24/7, usually after work. (When they first go out though I still go twice to run/unrug till the weather settles). I'm on a large-ish yard where the YO lives on-site and people are coming and going all day, and we all look out for each others' horses, and take any appropriate action as and when required.

For example, my mare had a really horrible abscess last summer, and she'd gone from hooning around like a loon in the morning to being on three legs mid-afternoon. I got a phone call while I was at work, and even though I was only 15 minutes away, four other liveries managed to get her in from the field. I phoned the farrier en-route and found he'd already been contacted and was on his way.

I've been on yards where people don't come to check their horses for days on end even during winter, and sometimes I've seen horses standing in their own muck at 1pm when they've been in at night.


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## magicmoose (17 April 2014)

webble said:



			What does the law class as reasonable time scales? Do they use the DEFRA 24rs at grass and twice a day stabled mentioned above? Also what classes as checking? eg topping up water and or hay and making sure there are still 4 legs and a tail?
		
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Checking would cover whether the horse: 
"&#8226; has a suitable environment to live in
&#8226; has a healthy diet
&#8226; is able to behave normally
&#8226; has appropriate company; and
&#8226; is protected from pain, suffering, injury and disease.

Breach of a provision of the Code is not an offence in itself, but if proceedings are brought against you for a welfare offence the Court will look at whether or not you have complied with the Code in deciding whether you have committed an offence."

For anyone wanting some bedtime reading, the Code is here http://adlib.everysite.co.uk/resources/000/263/388/PB13334.pdf

As Moomin said though, environmental factors and the animals themselves (eg mare about to foal) would play a part.


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## MerrySherryRider (17 April 2014)

Checking once a day is perfectly acceptable legally, although I prefer to come twice when they're out, with other responsible people around, sometimes it's not needed. 

 Poor care and neglect is entirely different and shouldn't be confused with the number of checks.

If it is custom and practice for other owners to check all horses in the field and take appropriate action, then visiting once a day is fine in usual circumstances. 

No court would prosecute a livery for coming once daily.


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## Moomin1 (17 April 2014)

MerrySherryRider said:



			Checking once a day is perfectly acceptable legally, although I prefer to come twice when they're out, with other responsible people around, sometimes it's not needed. 

 Poor care and neglect is entirely different and shouldn't be confused with the number of checks.

If it is custom and practice for other owners to check all horses in the field and take appropriate action, then visiting once a day is fine in usual circumstances. 

No court would prosecute a livery for coming once daily.
		
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They would, and have (trust me) if the needs of that horse weren't met as a result of someone not attending more than once in 24 hours.  

As I said before, nobody can be prosecuted for simply attending only once in 24 hours, but if something happens whereby a horse suffers, and that suffering could have reasonably been prevented by someone attending more frequently, then yes, they can and do get prosecuted.  It all depends on the circumstances in each individual case.

You are talking about someone else checking the horses in the meantime - yes, if someone is checking the horses in the meantime, then they haven't been left unattended for 24 hours have they?  I am talking about nobody checking a horse within 24 hours.


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## 3OldPonies (17 April 2014)

My turn to get shot down . .  

But to be honest, this thread has shocked me slightly - purely from the amount of people who are willing to let others assume responsibility for their horses by not checking them twice a day.  As far as I am concerned, and as I was brought up if you have an animal then whatever else life throws at you, the come first.  And yes that does mean that I get up at stupid o clock in the morning so that I can get the boys done and then to to work, and that tea for me and my partner is often ready close to 9pm because I do them on my way home as well.  

It may be that there are others on your yard that you think are looking out for your horse(s), but tbh why should they? It's your animal and if they are looking out for yours all the time, do you not think that's a bit selfish and taking time from them that they could be spending with their own horse(s).


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## _GG_ (17 April 2014)

3OldPonies said:



			My turn to get shot down . .  

But to be honest, this thread has shocked me slightly - purely from the amount of people who are willing to let others assume responsibility for their horses by not checking them twice a day.  As far as I am concerned, and as I was brought up if you have an animal then whatever else life throws at you, the come first.  And yes that does mean that I get up at stupid o clock in the morning so that I can get the boys done and then to to work, and that tea for me and my partner is often ready close to 9pm because I do them on my way home as well.  

It may be that there are others on your yard that you think are looking out for your horse(s), but tbh why should they? It's your animal and if they are looking out for yours all the time, do you not think that's a bit selfish and taking time from them that they could be spending with their own horse(s).
		
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An 'implied' agreement to check is certainly not good enough. It needs to be an actual agreement for the good of the horses.


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## vikkiandmonica (17 April 2014)

3OldPonies said:



			My turn to get shot down . .  

But to be honest, this thread has shocked me slightly - purely from the amount of people who are willing to let others assume responsibility for their horses by not checking them twice a day.  As far as I am concerned, and as I was brought up if you have an animal then whatever else life throws at you, the come first.  And yes that does mean that I get up at stupid o clock in the morning so that I can get the boys done and then to to work, and that tea for me and my partner is often ready close to 9pm because I do them on my way home as well.  

It may be that there are others on your yard that you think are looking out for your horse(s), but tbh why should they? It's your animal and if they are looking out for yours all the time, do you not think that's a bit selfish and taking time from them that they could be spending with their own horse(s).
		
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I'm not sure if this was aimed at me, but I did used to check mine once a day. As I've said earlier, I had an agreement with some other people whose horses were in the same field as mine that they would check my two in the morning and make sure the water trough was full and the fencing was fine, and when I came up in the afternoon, I would do the same. This worked out well as yes, it took some time to check the other horses in the field, but not to the extent it would to travel to the yard an extra time a day. It worked out well for everyone involved and meant that every horse was checked on at least twice a day, if not more. I didn't just expect people to check my horses, I talked it over with the other people in my field and a spoken, not implied, agreement was made.


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## ester (17 April 2014)

Doormouse said:



			That's completely fair enough if you are sharing a field and you check theirs to return the favour. Sorry, I wasn't really meaning to have a go at you its a very sore subject with me because every morning just at the moment my horses take 20 mins and then I spend another 30 mins sorting all the others out because I know their owners won't be up until the evening and I hate leaving them uncomfortable.
		
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As you run the yard can you not insist horses are attended to twice a day?

I live on the yard so not really relevant but you would be told if you didn't check your beast twice a day without prior arrangement with someone to do it for you . 

Both I and the YO do late night checks and hay and poo pick our own in winter too though, I don't mind doing that for people noone is going to want to actively come down at that time but to check everyone ok/rugs attached/not colicing is so very worth it!


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## Ibblebibble (17 April 2014)

I'm a twice a day girl!  sometimes one of those visits is by OH so it is just a head and legs all in the right direction kind of visit but 99% of the time it is me.


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## Hippona (17 April 2014)

Doormouse said:



			Thats all well and good that someone would have noticed and called you but what if it was an emergency and the horse needed to be got in and the vet called straight away. Why should someone else do that for your horses?

I have liveries that only come up once a day when their horses are out and it drives me mad. Fly masks are forever coming off and I hate seeing the horse looking unhappy because the mask is off so I go and put it back on, but by the time I've done several in the morning I am running late and don't have the time I wanted for mine. Why should I have to do that for people who can't be bothered to come up twice a day?
		
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You could go up six times a day and the emergency happen when you're not there.


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## 3OldPonies (17 April 2014)

vikkiandmonica said:



			I'm not sure if this was aimed at me,
		
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My post wasn't aimed at anyone, just a general observation.


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## Charmin (17 April 2014)

I often check twice a day in summer. However they're checked by YO in the morning when she waters (they are on part livery) and then my field mate goes down around lunch time and checks, I go down mid afternoon to ride or groom, check fieldmate. They're then checked again in the evening around 6 by YO then last check at 11pm. Checks by YO are whether they're sound, eating and drinking properly. She also puts on rugs and feeds, puts on flymasks etc. Fieldmate check is a quick look for blood or excess flies, quick spray with fly spray etc. Then my check is hands on thorough.


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## Amymay (17 April 2014)

Yep, twice a day.


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## Tiddlypom (17 April 2014)

Twice a day, at a minimum.


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## Foxy O (17 April 2014)

magicmoose said:



			Mine check me!! 

As soon as I open the door to come out of the house, or pull up in the car, there they are. I would like to think that its because they love me, but I know that they are just hopeful of being fed!
		
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This applys to me when ever they see me they come to the field gate or call from the stable, they are at home and my husband would rather they didn't do that as it chews up the gateways but I don't know how to stop it. When I'm at home they get checked many times a day even if it's from the other side of the fence. When I go to work they are checked twice a day


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## el_Snowflakes (17 April 2014)

When mine is out through the day I only check once unless I need to change rugs ect. However our YO lives on site & is good at making sure horses are well in owners absence. If she were in a field in the back if nowhere I would want to have her checked twice.


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## The Fuzzy Furry (17 April 2014)

Twice a day.

Always go morning & evening (or late afternoon if winter).
Also poo-pick each time as only takes 10 extra mins - means I can also check the field boundaries twice daily too 

I cast an eye over next doors as am there a good hour earlier than her on weekdays, she does the same look-over at mine too when she comes twice daily 

I dont know of anyone going once a day, except those who are on livery.............


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## Equi (17 April 2014)

I bring my show ponies in every night so the cob who is companion comes in too. If they are not out he gets checked when I drive past my field but I wouldn't physically get out and check him.


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## Moomin1 (17 April 2014)

equi said:



			I bring my show ponies in every night so the cob who is companion comes in too. If they are not out he gets checked when I drive past my field but I wouldn't physically get out and check him.
		
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So he wouldn't even get checked properly once a day then?


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## HaffiesRock (17 April 2014)

Once a day here too. YO Lives on site and can see my ponies through her window. She checks them all at 5am when she gets up, and then is around all day before doing a final check late at night. Both liveries on either side of my field look out for my ponies, as I do theirs. Both of which tend to be up most of the day. I am up about 5pm till dark so they are watched, so to speak, the majority of the day. It would be a complete waste of my time to make a second trip. We all have each others vets numbers etc and would call a vet at the first sign of trouble. It works for us.


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## Moomin1 (17 April 2014)

HaffiesRock said:



			Once a day here too. YO Lives on site and can see my ponies through her window. She checks them all at 5am when she gets up, and then is around all day before doing a final check late at night. Both liveries on either side of my field look out for my ponies, as I do theirs. Both of which tend to be up most of the day. I am up about 5pm till dark so they are watched, so to speak, the majority of the day. It would be a complete waste of my time to make a second trip. We all have each others vets numbers etc and would call a vet at the first sign of trouble. It works for us.
		
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That's different though - your horse isn't getting checked once a day. It's getting checked numerous times a day by arrangement.


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## Dizzle (17 April 2014)

My TB I used to check twice a day when he was out 24/7 as he was, well, a typical tb and could injure himself in a padded cell.

My hardy native I can get away with once a day, in fact she's on full grass livery so the yard keep an eye on her during the week and I only see her at weekends.


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## AmieeT (17 April 2014)

I usually check twice per day. Would've missed my train this morning though, so my friend gave him the once over and fly sprayed him.

Ax


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## Moomin1 (17 April 2014)

Dizzle said:



			My TB I used to check twice a day when he was out 24/7 as he was, well, a typical tb and could injure himself in a padded cell.

My hardy native I can get away with once a day, in fact she's on full grass livery so the yard keep an eye on her during the week and I only see her at weekends.
		
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So is your hardy native exempt from illness and injury?


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## Penny Less (17 April 2014)

I go twice a day but still didn't stop mine from having colic while I wasn't there. If you go twice and spend a couple of hours theres still 22 hrs you are not there


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## touchstone (17 April 2014)

I always check twice a day, including checking for digital pulses or footiness at this time of year.  In my experience it is easy to miss things like the start of laminitis if you just glance at them in a field making sure they have four legs.  Last year my neighbours elderly horse was laid down on the morning, which wasn't unusual as he often had a nap, but he lifted his head and looked at me, I went over to check him and the poor lad had been stuck there all night unable to get up.  I wouldn't have noticed if I hadn't gone over.


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## Moomin1 (17 April 2014)

Penny Less said:



			I go twice a day but still didn't stop mine from having colic while I wasn't there. If you go twice and spend a couple of hours theres still 22 hrs you are not there
		
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Yes but there's less time between visits in which your horse is potentially left suffering.


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## Silmarillion (17 April 2014)

The one time I tried going once (literally one day) I went the next day to find one lame and one injured. It's just not worth the risk, for me. I'd never forgive myself if something drastic happened and I could potentially have prevented it by being there. I always go twice or arrange cover - I would never expect other people to "see if my horse is ok" if I haven't specifically agreed it with them.


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## MerrySherryRider (17 April 2014)

Who's more at risk ? 

Horses on rented land and seen twice a day by the owner, or horses on a livery yard with an on site YO and other liveries but checked by owner once a day ? 

Additionally, while a 2 brief checks are good, spending 2-3 hours during one visit while  working with your horses, tells you far more.

If the threat of prosecution was aimed at owners who only visit once, it could be argued that the number of checks would tell you very little about the quality of care, particularly when some owners idea of a check is a glance at the field from the yard whilst clutching a coffee.


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## Moomin1 (17 April 2014)

MerrySherryRider said:



			Who's more at risk ? 

Horses on rented land and seen twice a day by the owner, or horses on a livery yard with an on site YO and other liveries but checked by owner once a day ? 

Additionally, while a 2 brief checks are good, spending 2-3 hours during one visit while  working with your horses, tells you far more.

If the threat of prosecution was aimed at owners who only visit once, it could be argued that the number of checks would tell you very little about the quality of care, particularly when some owners idea of a check is a glance at the field from the yard whilst clutching a coffee.
		
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But a livery owner who is checking horse throughout the day by arrangement does not constitute a horse being checked once per day.  I am talking about horses who are ONLY checked once per day.  

Of course the quality of the checks matter.  As does the frequency. Neither are exclusive - an owner should ensure their horses are being checked properly, and as frequently as possible.


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## windand rain (17 April 2014)

Mine live out 24/7 I spend about 4 hours per morning with them every morning regardless of weather and circumstances but they are on rented land with a landowner on site. He know nothing about horses but if he chanced to see blood or them in difficulties he would phone me. Horsey neighbours also cast and eye over them and break ice if needed just as I do for theirs. So mine are visited once a day but I spend a lot of time with them in direct contact with them. If they were nearer I would visit lots of times when I walk the dog but they are 10 miles away so not really within walking distance


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## JoannaC (17 April 2014)

Surely depends on the livery set up  I am on an old fashioned yard where they are used to taking control of all the horses welfare on site.   Some people only come up at the weekends or once in a blue moon but no horse would be left out if there is a problem.  YO would get  a horse in and deal with any problems and inform owner even though it is grass livery.    I do go up twice a day at the moment to rug in the evening but otherwise will only go once a day.    The more modern diy yards don't have the same responsibility about the horses on site and when on those yards I will go up twice day as I take total responsibility as that is the agreement.


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## thewonderhorse (17 April 2014)

Forgot to add I check all of the ponies, mine and the liveries twice during the eve and re hay if necessary and one of the liveries does a late night check at 11pm or so.


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## STRIKER (17 April 2014)

I guess if folk could get to the yard twice or even three times a day they would, this is not excusing those that dont come at all esp when horses are stabled, disgusting, but seriously from an economical point of view that extra visit could be 30miles, agree do have a back up plan in place e.g. another livery to throw their eyes over them.  Fly masks etc come off all the time unfortunately.  Sadly you could check your horse at 6pm and all was well and within 30mins of leaving the yard the horse could come down with something, it happens.


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## kez81 (17 April 2014)

My dad checks mine at six thirty every day summer and winter and I do afternoons when I finish work. In summer we are usually both there in eves as its best time for riding out. The girl I was sharing with used to go up may be twice a week and just relied on me to sort her horse out. This was not an agreement we had she just took the p*** and when I had to buy hay for her horse through the winter too and she took ages to pay me for it , I decided to get moved. Have just moved my boys onto lovely little farm where I am only livery and farmer has kindly offered to check them for me if me or dad can't get up and send me a text if he spots any problems. I wouldn't worry too much about checking only once a day if fields are secure and have auto drinkers and horse isnt turned out in head collars or anything else could get tangled in ( i dont use fly rugs or masks etc on my two) as long as i knew there were others about who would let me know if a problem arose. Years ago I was at a place where there was no water to the field I rented and I found myself having to go up three time a day to keep water buckets topped up and clean as youngster liked to poop in them and there was no one else onsite to check them for me, very tiring!


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## ellie11987 (17 April 2014)

touchstone said:



			I always check twice a day, including checking for digital pulses or footiness at this time of year.  In my experience it is easy to miss things like the start of laminitis if you just glance at them in a field making sure they have four legs.
		
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Exactly this. Mine is generally out 24/7 in summer but is brought in in the morning, rugs off, brushed, fly sprayed, checked over, pulse taken etc then fed and put out again before being brought in around 4pm to be checked, rode, fed again. 

I know of people on my yard who can leave it weeks before checking up on their horse in summer as they see summer as the 'easy part' and seem to believe they can fend for themselves. Said people are also reliant on others noticing lameness or illness in their horses when seeing to their own. These are also the people who leave them in lw rugs that they've been in for weeks despite the weather. There are also people who drive past and see if they're on 4 legs or not then drive off. What about lameness, cuts, lami?! It drives me bonkers and I refuse to 'teach the owners a lesson' through cruelty to the horse so it end up wasting MY time. 

IMO you should check them twice a day at least, especially if you are not on a large yard.


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## Moomin1 (17 April 2014)

postputasocinit said:



			I guess if folk could get to the yard twice or even three times a day they would, this is not excusing those that dont come at all esp when horses are stabled, disgusting, but seriously from an economical point of view that extra visit could be 30miles, agree do have a back up plan in place e.g. another livery to throw their eyes over them.  Fly masks etc come off all the time unfortunately.  Sadly you could check your horse at 6pm and all was well and within 30mins of leaving the yard the horse could come down with something, it happens.
		
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Yes, but if someone doesn't then go for another 24 hrs then that horse is left for a longer period without than if they went again in another 12 hours.

I don't think fly masks coming off are the real worry here. I am talking about illness/injury/water leakages which are the issue.  

I know it's happened to me before where there has been a sudden leak in the trough seals and it has emptied completely by my next visit that evening.  If I hadn't have gone up for another 24 hours, and they were stood in baking heat with no water - not great.


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## Captain Bridget (17 April 2014)

I only go up once a day, when they are in over night in the winter I put them away and they are turned out in the morning for me. 

When they are out 24/7 as they are now then they are checked in the morning and if the weather is good have their rugs off. They are also looked at several times a day as they're kept at the owners house.


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## STRIKER (17 April 2014)

I was referring to those that have someone else do the 2nd check if they cant get up there.  I wasnt referring to myself.  If you dont have someone to rely on then you must endeavour to do a 2nd check, its what being a responsible horse owner is all about.


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## Merrymoles (17 April 2014)

I usually go twice a day but my second visit is unnecessary - I do the checking, water etc in the morning and my field share does the evenings. I usually go evenings as well to do the "fun" stuff like riding and grooming.
I'm not going tonight though as I have a bigger responsibility to one of my other animals today. My field sharer has just texted me to let me know that they are fine, fed and rugged up.
So I don't really need to go more than once a day but nearly always do.


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## julie111 (17 April 2014)

I'm going to get shot down now but we only go once a day and spend on average 3 hours with them. They don't have rugs or fly masks on and never run out of water.


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## Moomin1 (17 April 2014)

julie111 said:



			I'm going to get shot down now but we only go once a day and spend on average 3 hours with them. They don't have rugs or fly masks on and never run out of water.
		
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So if your horses injured themselves very quickly after you left, they would be stood for 24 hours or so suffering?  I don't think that's responsible in the slightest.


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## windand rain (17 April 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			So if your horses injured themselves very quickly after you left, they would be stood for 24 hours or so suffering?  I don't think that's responsible in the slightest.
		
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And if you visit yours at 4pm and again at 8 or 9 am you leave them for 16 hours if they injured themselves at 5 minutes past 4 yours would be left for 16 hours against the 21 hours mentioned in the quote. I would guess that 5 hours would make little difference to a serious injury that had already been left for 16.
Unless you check every 15 minutes for 24/hours a day then you cannot eliminate the slight risk of injury being an issue most injuries are best treated within a golden hour


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## Ceriann (17 April 2014)

Mine are out 24/7 but at home so get checked all the time.  Two (at least) proper checks when they get a bit of fuss and I get to properly look them over.


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## Serephin (17 April 2014)

I go once a day when he is out 24/7. Field is opposite YO's house, and people on our yard look out for each others's horses as a matter of course. YO is very vigilant as well. Not that its anyone else's business how I look after my horse!


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## julie111 (17 April 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			So if your horses injured themselves very quickly after you left, they would be stood for 24 hours or so suffering?  I don't think that's responsible in the slightest.
		
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Why not stand in the field 24/7 then! They could could injure themselves a few minutes after you have left they would then be left standing for 16 hours or so!


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## TelH (17 April 2014)

I check mine several times a day as they are at home now. When I was on a livery yard I used to go morning and evening every day and the yo lived on site too so kept an eye on them. My old mare managed to break her leg when she was left alone in the field for an hour. I was cleaning out the water troughs in the field and she was fine, went back to the yard to muck out, do hay, feeds etc (you couldn't see the field from the yard), an hour later I went to bring in and she was broken  It doesn't bear thinking about if she had been left for 24 hours like that


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## Ibblebibble (17 April 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			So if your horses injured themselves very quickly after you left, they would be stood for 24 hours or so suffering?  I don't think that's responsible in the slightest.
		
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windand rain said:



			And if you visit yours at 4pm and again at 8 or 9 am you leave them for 16 hours if they injured themselves at 5 minutes past 4 yours would be left for 16 hours against the 21 hours mentioned in the quote. I would guess that 5 hours would make little difference to a serious injury that had already been left for 16.
Unless you check every 15 minutes for 24/hours a day then you cannot eliminate the slight risk of injury being an issue most injuries are best treated within a golden hour
		
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which is what happened to one of mine, i saw them in the evening, by the time i went the next day at 10am the TB had broken her hind leg, snapped in two, bone showing. horrendous and fatal. for months i beat myself up that i hadn't got there earlier, that i hadn't gone up later the evening before, that i hadn't put her in the shelter, that i had not moved from the livery yard etc etc. once the emotional pain of losing her had reduced and rational thought retuned i realised that unless i lived in the field with them i could physically not prevent something like that happening in my absence, be that absence 5 minutes or 5 hours or 15 hours.


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## Pudster (17 April 2014)

Amen to this.
So shoot me already. 
Once a day.. with someone looking over to see if they are ok.. A horse will survive 12 hours with no water.. (not saying its right), but.. do you not think that in nature.. they would think.. 'I need a drink, where is my trough'.. No they get on with it and survive. (I have worked in a stud and with movement on the yard 18 out of 24 hours, we still lost a horse to colic after colic surgery that was found in the very early stages.. nothing is infallible).

My horse is happy and content.. and I would be even more concerned that he would drink a whole trough of water in 24 hours than it being empty? *that doesn't have a leak* (or is that just me..?)

As has been said before, you can spend X hours with them. and do a last check at night (been there done that ) and still, stuff will happen.. Horses are horses.. you cannot wrap them in cotton wool and be worried about them all the 12 hours that you are at work or in bed asleep (unless you are VERY fortunate to have grooms 24/7).  All you can do is the best by them and make sure that you have all of their needs met. 
I'm am expecting a backlash, but I won't respond, as I have said my piece and thats all I wanted to do. 
There are lots of us out here that check our horses once a day..and they are all absolutely fine. 
Oh and No.. I'm not a Troll.


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## Spring Feather (17 April 2014)

I check all of my horses about 20 or 30 times every day lol.  Nothing goes on with them that I don't know about as all of my fields totally surround the farmhouse so the horses are all on view 24/7.


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## Moomin1 (17 April 2014)

julie111 said:



			Why not stand in the field 24/7 then! They could could injure themselves a few minutes after you have left they would then be left standing for 16 hours or so!
		
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Are people really so thick as to not get the point here?!

It's not about the fact they can injure themselves at any time.  It's about the amount of time they are then left to suffer without anyone noticing and intervening.

Saying they may still injure themselves and be left 16 hours does not make it acceptable or right to say that you may as well just then leave them 24 hours instead as it won't matter.


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## MagicMelon (17 April 2014)

Mine are right next to my house so I see them several times a day, but I would always do them twice at least anyway - I've got my other horses at my mums house and when she's away I still make sure I go there twice a day (20 min drive each way) and otherwise my mum also sees them several times a day even if its just glancing at them on the way out to the car or garden.


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## EffyCorsten (17 April 2014)

When on diy i checked and fed twice a day happy that there was always an eye cast over them in between but now they are home they are checked at least 3 times but usually about 5or 6 times.


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## Arizahn (17 April 2014)

Mine is on Full Livery, so all care is provided. They are checked at least three times a day whether in or out, and YO lives on site (working farm). I go up a few times each week and if there is an emergency in the meantime they will ring the vet and then me. It's very relaxing


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## paulineh (17 April 2014)

Doormouse said:



			Thats all well and good that someone would have noticed and called you but what if it was an emergency and the horse needed to be got in and the vet called straight away. Why should someone else do that for your horses?
		
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Any accident etc can happen the minute you leave the yard even if you check your horses 3 or 4 times a day. When I was on a yard my horses were checked twice a day but I would have been very happy if someone saw something, even if it was 5 minutes after I had left the yard and dealt with it and then called me.


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## Highlands (17 April 2014)

Twice a day at least


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## Theocat (17 April 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			Are people really so thick as to not get the point here?!

It's not about the fact they can injure themselves at any time.  It's about the amount of time they are then left to suffer without anyone noticing and intervening.

Saying they may still injure themselves and be left 16 hours does not make it acceptable or right to say that you may as well just then leave them 24 hours instead as it won't matter.
		
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I'm coming at this from a debating / intellectual curiosity POV - not disagreeing with what you say!

But two checks a day, with a 16 hour gap, is still an arbitrary number that we've decided is acceptable.  Once a day is just as arbitrary.  Twice a day or even three times a day is still arbitrary and still going to leave the horse at risk of being in pain or injured for hours - and in fact the gap is never likely to be less than eight hours.  Of course the more checks the better, but twice a day is still balancing the constraints of the owner against the needs of the horse, so although the balance is better it's still a balance - I don't think we can be too harsh on people who choose to balance it slightly differently!

FWIW this is why I would always keep a horse on part livery where someone is keeping an eye out - twice a day every day is a MASSIVE commitment; I'm surprised how few people are saying once a day!


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## Moomin1 (17 April 2014)

Theocat said:



			I'm coming at this from a debating / intellectual curiosity POV - not disagreeing with what you say!

But two checks a day, with a 16 hour gap, is still an arbitrary number that we've decided is acceptable.  Once a day is just as arbitrary.  Twice a day or even three times a day is still arbitrary and still going to leave the horse at risk of being in pain or injured for hours - and in fact the gap is never likely to be less than eight hours.  Of course the more checks the better, but twice a day is still balancing the constraints of the owner against the needs of the horse, so although the balance is better it's still a balance - I don't think we can be too harsh on people who choose to balance it slightly differently!

FWIW this is why I would always keep a horse on part livery where someone is keeping an eye out - twice a day every day is a MASSIVE commitment; I'm surprised how few people are saying once a day!
		
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How is twice a day a massive commitment?!! Do these people not attend their horses twice a day, and do far more whilst the horses are stabled?

FWIW, my mare will generally get checked on average every 12-14 hours when she is out 24/7.  Plus the YO lives on site and rings if there is a problem.  Added to that, I pass by now and again throughout the day and always have a quick check.  

Call me harsh, maybe, but I stand by my opinion that one check in 24 hours is not enough.


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## kerrieberry2 (17 April 2014)

I do now that I'm the only person on my yard but back in the day when I was on a busier yard, there were always people around, and we would all contact each other as and when needed!  my last yard one of us would do mornings the other evenings, so again always someone around!  couldn't imagine now checking them twice a day now though


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## Spring Feather (17 April 2014)

Theocat said:



			I'm surprised how few people are saying once a day!
		
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I'm not!  I bet they are terrified to say so on this thread now :biggrin3:

In the defence of Moomin, I do get exactly what she's saying.  I honestly don't know how people can only check their horses twice a day let alone once.  It would give me palpitations if mine went for hours without being checked.


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## burtie (17 April 2014)

When my horse is living out 24/7 I have always only checked once a day. I try and stagger visits with whoever shares the field but it isn't essential.


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## pippixox (17 April 2014)

personally i check them twice a day, whether in or out. i understand when out they wont run out of food and are not as confined, so not so desperate, but personally my routine is morning and evening, although timings can vary a little. 

i do have issues with people who assume someone else is checking their horse, but with no clear agreement. it is fine if like many people you actually have an agreement with a friend or livery that they will (i sometimes do with my friends if either of us are busy)- but just someone from a distance looking will not always spot things.

but i also completely agree that, sods law, a horse will injure themselves 10 minutes after you leave even if you have been with them all day!

everyone does the best they can


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## Ibblebibble (17 April 2014)

Spring Feather said:



			I'm not!  I bet they are terrified to say so on this thread now :biggrin3:

In the defence of Moomin, I do get exactly what she's saying.  I honestly don't know how people can only check their horses twice a day let alone once.  It would give me palpitations if mine went for hours without being checked.
		
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because not all of us have horses as our business/at home so we have to do that damn inconvenient thing called work


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## Moomin1 (17 April 2014)

pippixox said:



			personally i check them twice a day, whether in or out. i understand when out they wont run out of food and are not as confined, so not so desperate, but personally my routine is morning and evening, although timings can vary a little. 

i do have issues with people who assume someone else is checking their horse, but with no clear agreement. it is fine if like many people you actually have an agreement with a friend or livery that they will (i sometimes do with my friends if either of us are busy)- but just someone from a distance looking will not always spot things.

but i also completely agree that, sods law, a horse will injure themselves 10 minutes after you leave even if you have been with them all day!

everyone does the best they can
		
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That's the thing though - not everyone DOES do the best they can.  A recent livery who has now left was a prime example of this (ok, not talking about whilst out 24/7, but in terms of general attitude towards care and visiting).  They were tight on cash for a few months, and so their pony was being left 24/7 indoors (horses had to be in due to drenched fields) with only one visit every 24 hours.  Bedding was wringing wet, and food none existent for hours per day.  Yet, as soon as they got money, what did they do?  They went out drinking on a night out, then shopping the next day, bought a load of luxuries for themselves, before waltzing up late that day to sort pony, who still had no clean bedding.  Bedding was bought a few days later.  This sort of thing seriously grates on me.

Grr, sorry - think it's pregnancy hormones on over drive tonight!! Lol!


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## Moomin1 (17 April 2014)

Ibblebibble said:



			because not all of us have horses as our business/at home so we have to do that damn inconvenient thing called work 

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Yes, I work full time 40 - 50 hours per week. My horse still gets checked every 12 - 14 hours by myself, and also kept an eye on by YO and other liveries in the meantime.

If we have animals, we have a duty of care to them, whether we work or not.


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## NativePonyLover (17 April 2014)

I'm not on 24/7 turn out but am on mainly DIY livery, but P gets fussed & jobs done twice a day.

Usually I see him twice a day but sometimes due to work or life commitments I might only see him once a day (or if I'm away, not at all)  but if I don't do the second visit then I'll either pay my YM for assistance and she'll do him, my parents will do him for me or a trusted friend at the yard. 

All of the above know P & I have a list of contacts for me (my mobile number, my direct work landline number, my work mobile number, work switch board number & even a trusted colleague ...!) as well as my vet, my trimmer - so I've no worries if I don't get up to see him twice a day. 

I'm on a large yard, so there is always someone there in an emergency - so if he injured himself in the field, they would bring him in and contact YM (if it wasn't her that found him) who would in turn contact me. I've done it for others & know they'd do it for me. No biggie.


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## lara+pongo<3 (17 April 2014)

mine share is out 24/7 and I check him every day and so does the owner


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## julie111 (17 April 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			Are people really so thick as to not get the point here?!

It's not about the fact they can injure themselves at any time.  It's about the amount of time they are then left to suffer without anyone noticing and intervening.

Saying they may still injure themselves and be left 16 hours does not make it acceptable or right to say that you may as well just then leave them 24 hours instead as it won't matter.
		
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Not thick and please don't imply I am! I do think it is acceptable to check once a day, I bet a fair few more people do only check once a day but daren't say so for being shot down on here!!


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## Pudster (17 April 2014)

I'm still waiting to be shot..! lol..  and still nothing..?! lol (which is confusing tbh, after lurking on here for a few or so months..?) but then maybe.. If you have a good argument as to why, then they can not shoot you down hun..x 
And, just for reference, I agree with you.. some maybe too scared to admit that they only check their horse once in24/7 (when out!) stabled is a whole different senario... 
Ax


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## Theocat (17 April 2014)

Spring Feather said:



			I'm not!  I bet they are terrified to say so on this thread now :biggrin3:

In the defence of Moomin, I do get exactly what she's saying.  I honestly don't know how people can only check their horses twice a day let alone once.  It would give me palpitations if mine went for hours without being checked.
		
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I get exactly what Moomin is saying too, and as I said I agree with her  - I was just making the point that twice a day is still a compromise on welfare, so until someone is in a position where they keep their horses under constant surveillance, I just think it's a bit unfair to judge others too harshly for making a compromise in a different place.  If that makes sense!


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## Moomin1 (17 April 2014)

julie111 said:



			Not thick and please don't imply I am! I do think it is acceptable to check once a day, I bet a fair few more people do only check once a day but daren't say so for being shot down on here!!
		
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Yes clearly you do think it's acceptable.  There are many people who do. Sadly.


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## BethanT (17 April 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			That's the thing though - not everyone DOES do the best they can.  A recent livery who has now left was a prime example of this (ok, not talking about whilst out 24/7, but in terms of general attitude towards care and visiting).  They were tight on cash for a few months, and so their pony was being left 24/7 indoors (horses had to be in due to drenched fields) with only one visit every 24 hours.  Bedding was wringing wet, and food none existent for hours per day.  Yet, as soon as they got money, what did they do?  They went out drinking on a night out, then shopping the next day, bought a load of luxuries for themselves, before waltzing up late that day to sort pony, who still had no clean bedding.  Bedding was bought a few days later.  This sort of thing seriously grates on me.

Grr, sorry - think it's pregnancy hormones on over drive tonight!! Lol!
		
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I can see where you are coming from OP and do agree, but I do think this is a slightly different point from your original post about checking twice a day. When I was at school my pony only got checked once a day by myself - it was not possible for me to get down before school to do so - she lived out with YO horses and so was checked on the morning. I FORTUNATELY had no problems - though not to say there couldn't have been.

Now I have my horse that lives in, I check her twice a day as they are still in at night. Now if she wasn't in foal, when they go out there would be days when she would only get checked once due to work commitments (3/4 jobs means that I litterally go from one to the other without stopping or time to check her inbetween). 

Now I agree your POV OP that the less time spent suffering for a horse the better, but for those who work hours 9-5 please tell me how they are supposed to check more than twice a day as I'm sure most will not have the luxury of working from home or having work next to where they are kept. OK you may be able to have some arragement if on a livery yard, but what about those who have theirs in a field. Also bear in mind that for some people their horses may be kept over 30mins away from home so one check may take them over an hour which some people just dont have a spare in the day. 

However,as people have said, just because you check more than once every 24hours doesnt mean nothing will go amiss as I'm sure you know. I did an evening check on the horses at work at around 5/6pm. I got a call the next morning at 9 to say that the young horse had got stuck in the fencing and was badly lame. Even if I had gone up at 9 or 10pm it still wouldnt have prevented the incident as she did it in the early hours of the morning when no one would have been up.

Please don't take this in a bad way as I completly get what you mean, just simply stating as to why some people may not check more than once every 24 hours


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## vikkiandmonica (17 April 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			Yes clearly you do think it's acceptable.  There are many people who do. Sadly.
		
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Where do you draw the line though? If someone was with their horses all day, because realistically they could, then they may be shocked you only check them twice a day. Yes, people buy horses and thus should take care of them, but I think it's harsh to imply that people who only check their horses once a day are being irresponsible owners.


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## Moomin1 (17 April 2014)

vikkiandmonica said:



			Where do you draw the line though? If someone was with their horses all day, because realistically they could, then they may be shocked you only check them twice a day. Yes, people buy horses and thus should take care of them, but I think it's harsh to imply that people who only check their horses once a day are being irresponsible owners.
		
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Ask yourself a question.  Would you leave a dog at home 24/7, with plenty of food and water, and only check it once in every 24 hours?


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## julie111 (17 April 2014)

I do think it is acceptable you are quite right


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## vikkiandmonica (17 April 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			Ask yourself a question.  Would you leave a dog at home 24/7, with plenty of food and water, and only check it once in every 24 hours?
		
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No, but then again I wouldn't just check them twice a day either. Dogs are completely different animals and crave human attention, and would also need taking on walks. A horse out in a field in herd is perfectly content being without their owners. Yes, an accident may happen and in that case yes, you want to be there as soon as possible, but an accident could leave 2 mins after you leave. By your logic shouldn't you do a nightly check, or set up CCTV so you can check them at night to make sure no accidents have occured?


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## MerrySherryRider (17 April 2014)

If I rented a field for my horses and checked them twice a day, I'd be worried. Leaving them unsupervised for lengthy periods would be risky.

That's why I keep them on a livery yard with the sort of YO's who feel the same responsibility for every client's horses, as they do for their own. 
 They know every lump and bump on the horses, every inch of their land and check any sick horses 2 hourly during the night -or sit with them. All for no charge. 

Everyone's circumstances are different, sometimes you need to check them 2,3,4 or more times a day. Sometimes, once a day is fine. It's just daft to criticise people's management without knowing the specifics.


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## Moomin1 (17 April 2014)

MerrySherryRider said:



			If I rented a field for my horses and checked them twice a day, I'd be worried. Leaving them unsupervised for lengthy periods would be risky.

That's why I keep them on a livery yard with the sort of YO's who feel the same responsibility for every client's horses, as they do for their own. 
 They know every lump and bump on the horses, every inch of their land and check any sick horses 2 hourly during the night -or sit with them. All for no charge. 

Everyone's circumstances are different, sometimes you need to check them 2,3,4 or more times a day. Sometimes, once a day is fine. It's just daft to criticise people's management without knowing the specifics.
		
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It is daft to only check a horse once per 24 hours.


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## julie111 (17 April 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			Ask yourself a question.  Would you leave a dog at home 24/7, with plenty of food and water, and only check it once in every 24 hours?
		
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What a stupid comparison to make!


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## BethanT (17 April 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			It is daft to only check a horse once per 24 hours.
		
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For you maybe. When you are able to. Like MSR said you don't know all the details of everyones life and it may not be possible for them to visit and do a proper check more than once a day. And untill you do know the specifics it is unfair for you to criticise those who do only check once every 24 hours


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## Moomin1 (17 April 2014)

BethanT said:



			For you maybe. When you are able to. Like MSR said you don't know all the details of everyones life and it may not be possible for them to visit and do a proper check more than once a day. And untill you do know the specifics it is unfair for you to criticise those who do only check once every 24 hours
		
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No it really isn't unfair.  What is unfair is people who take on animals and don't provide for them. If they can't get up more than once per day, they should get someone who can check them when they can't. Simple.  That's exactly what I, and most other people I know who are responsible do.  It's not hard.


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## MerrySherryRider (17 April 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			It is daft to only check a horse once per 24 hours.
		
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How many people does it take to check a horse or as an owner do I have magical powers that my YO and fellow liveries don't have ? 

Incidentally, what does a check entail ? Is it looking across the field or is it a physical check complete with hooves picked out, pulses checked, etc .

How much time should you be there for each time ?

I suspect I spend longer with my horses even on the days when I might visit just once than many people spend in a week.


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## slumdog (17 April 2014)

Mine are in 24/7 at the moment but even when they're out they are checked twice a day. In fairness my husband is fantastic and will do the morning 'shift' if I've got to leave early for work. I'm quite particular and they have to be mucked out twice a day (I can't stand people who leave them standing knee deep in **** all day!) and have fresh water morning and night. I know somebody (not near my yard) who has a pony that's covered in sarcoids and leaves it without being checked for days if not weeks at a time. Vile creature she is.


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## BethanT (17 April 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			No it really isn't unfair.  What is unfair is people who take on animals and don't provide for them. If they can't get up more than once per day, they should get someone who can check them when they can't. Simple.  That's exactly what I, and most other people I know who are responsible do.  It's not hard.
		
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I think you may be getting worked up over something a bit different. I provide well for my horse, she will never go without anything in her lifetime. But there will be times when she will only be checked once a day by myself. I am lucky and am on a livery yard so people will see if there is a major problem, and yes I will get shot down for that but I don't really care as I know my horse is extreamly well looked after, even if it does mean I spend time with her once a day. 

As for getting people to check for them, I know people - myself included - who is the only horsey person or person able to check a horse, so who do you suppose checks them? As they may not have friends who are willing or horsey, and some people may not be able to afford to pay a freelance groom to do it. I supppose your argument there would then be to not have a horse but you would then be denying them the wonder of having a horse that may be their only escape. Some people may earn enough to supply well for their horses so that they need for nothing but then to add an extra £10/15/20 a day every day amounts to a lot. I sure couldnt afford to pay that. 

I think, OP, that you need to accept that for some people checking once every 24 hours is acceptable and in some cases the only option. No one is saying that they wouldnt check more if they had the means to. Not everyone is fortunate to be able to spend hours every day with their horse to check 3,4,5,6 times a day etc. There are always going to be people who don't do things the way you may deem "responsible", thats just life in both the horsey world and the non-horsey world.


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## julie111 (17 April 2014)

Very silly to say people who only check their horses once a day shouldn't have them! I have owned horses for over 40 years, I am very responsible as I'm sure most other people who only see their horses once a day are.


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## Cheshire Chestnut (17 April 2014)

I check mine once a day when he's out, bring him in for haynet/feed/ride/groom etc and then sometimes pop back for a cuddle again. I work 12 hour shifts so sometimes checking twice isn't an option. I do, however, have a friend with her horse in the same field so we always check each other's horses when we go up (we are liking passing ships in the night so I'd say that works pretty well). If I go away for a few days then my friend brings him in during the day for his feed and I do the same for her so he's never left a full day without being seen. 

I'd like to think that people do the best they can - horses aren't just a hobby, they're a lifestyle choice and it frustates me so much when people enter into having a horse lightly.


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## doriangrey (17 April 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			No it really isn't unfair.  What is unfair is people who take on animals and don't provide for them. If they can't get up more than once per day, they should get someone who can check them when they can't. Simple.  That's exactly what I, and most other people I know who are responsible do.  It's not hard.
		
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I think you are being unfair.  My horses are at home and are constantly at my supervision, so I could say the same of you - that your checking twice a day is woefully insufficient.


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## Pudster (17 April 2014)

Agreed,  julie111


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## Shutterbug (17 April 2014)

My horses are currently out in the morning and in at night so I'm at the yard twice a day.  When they go out I will check them on my way to work, and they will be either ridden in the evening or checked/fed on my way home from work.  I have known people who have had the OK from the YO to turn out for summer and have lobbed the horses in a field and not been seen for 2 weeks - this I find unacceptable.  In fact a previous YO laid down a rule that you came and checked your horse at least once a day and signed the check in sheet or you got charged £3 for her checking your horse, because she felt it was unacceptable to not check your horse at least once a day. And that didnt mean a drive by, check they are still in the field
Checking a horse once a day when its out 24/7 is fine - unless you are camping in the field you cant keep an eye on them all time time.


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## _HP_ (17 April 2014)

Once a day mostly.....
Mine are in a secure field, with an automatic waterer and an extra trough that I fill myself each day. They get a handful of hay and a balancer when I go up to check on them. They have access to a shelter, a concrete yard and their 1-5 acres ( depending on time of year).
They are not made of china and have both survived 18 yrs without being wrapped up in cotton wool.


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## Tiddlypom (17 April 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			It is daft to only check a horse once per 24 hours.
		
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I agree.

IMHO a twice daily close check by a responsible person, who may or may not be the owner, is a bare minimum.

ETA I am genuinely quite shocked by how many posters are content to check their horses once daily.


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## Cheshire Chestnut (17 April 2014)

_HP_ said:



			They are not made of china and have both survived 18 yrs without being wrapped up in cotton wool.
		
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Same - I've had horses all my life and started to think in the last few years the horse world has gone into overdrive with some things. I'm sure 10 years ago we didn't think too much about leaving the horses in the field and only checking on them once a day and they're in their late 20's now so we must have done something right!


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## Amymay (17 April 2014)

MerrySherryRider said:



			How many people does it take to check a horse or as an owner do I have magical powers that my YO and fellow liveries don't have ?
		
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As an owner you have a _responsibility_, that is the point.

Yes a fellow livery can check the horse, as indeed can the yard owner. However, unless they're  physically putting their hands on the horse and taking the time to check it up close and personal then the horse is not being checked.

Why do people have horses if they cant be bothered to physicallycheck them themselves twice a day. Anything less is simplyshoddy ownership.


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## vikkiandmonica (17 April 2014)

amymay said:



			Why do people have horses if they cant be bothered to physicallycheck them themselves twice a day. Anything less is simplyshoddy ownership.
		
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Yes but that's because you're able to check yours twice a day. Someone who can check theirs 3+ times a day could turn around and say "seeing them less than 3 times is shoddy ownership." Where do you draw the line?


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## Moomin1 (17 April 2014)

Tiddlypom said:



			I agree.

IMHO a twice daily close check by a responsible person, who may or may not be the owner, is a bare minimum.

ETA I am genuinely quite shocked by how many posters are content to check their horses once daily.
		
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Sadly I am not shocked.  People on here say that the horse world has gone into overdrive. No, quite the opposite - so many people these days have shoddy sub standard horse care regimes it's untrue.  Quite a few of them seem to be on this thread. 

FWIW, none of my horses have EVER been checked once in 24 hours, not even years ago.


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## Moomin1 (17 April 2014)

vikkiandmonica said:



			Yes but that's because you're able to check yours twice a day. Someone who can check theirs 3+ times a day could turn around and say "seeing them less than 3 times is shoddy ownership." Where do you draw the line?
		
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Checking morning and evening is reasonable.  As you would attend to a horse in a stable, morning and evening.  Of course, the more checks the better, but that amount is classed as reasonable.


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## MerrySherryRider (17 April 2014)

amymay said:



			As an owner you have a _responsibility_, that is the point.

Yes a fellow livery can check the horse, as indeed can the yard owner. However, unless they're  physically putting their hands on the horse and taking the time to check it up close and personal then the horse is not being checked.

Why do people have horses if they cant be bothered to physicallycheck them themselves twice a day. Anything less is simplyshoddy ownership.
		
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LOL Shoddy ownership. That's the first time I've been accused of that. Just spat coffee all over my laptop.


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## Moomin1 (17 April 2014)

MerrySherryRider said:



			LOL Shoddy ownership. That's the first time I've been accused of that. Just spat coffee all over my laptop.
		
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You keep repeatedly missing the point.  If a responsible person is checking your horse for you more than once per day, then fine.  No problem, provided they are checking them properly and thoroughly.  I am not saying the owner themselves MUST go twice per day.  So long as someone else who is responsible and knowledgeable enough is checking them the second time, fine.  But 24hours with only one check by anyone is not.


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## Amymay (17 April 2014)

vikkiandmonica said:



			Yes but that's because you're able to check yours twice a day. Someone who can check theirs 3+ times a day could turn around and say "seeing them less than 3 times is shoddy ownership." Where do you draw the line?
		
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You're right. I can check them twice a day because I ensure that I can. It's part and parcel of horse ownership as far as I'm concerned.

As for the possible argument about 3 plus times a day, I think it's commonly accepted that twice a day is a minimum, and if you can cast your eye over them more than twice great.


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## vikkiandmonica (17 April 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			Checking morning and evening is reasonable.  As you would attend to a horse in a stable, morning and evening.  Of course, the more checks the better, but that amount is classed as reasonable.
		
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YOU class it as reasonable. Clearly there are people who disagree with you, and once is reasonable for them, or Springfeather (I think?), who is around them all day, doesn't seem to think twice is reasonable. Plus most people here have said that when stabled they see theirs twice a day/YO will turn their horses out in the morning, as otherwise they would go out without food and water. We're talking about being out 24/7 so food and water isn't an issue.


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## Moomin1 (17 April 2014)

amymay said:



			You're right. I can check them twice a day because I ensure that I can. It's part and parcel of horse ownership as far as I'm concerned.

As for the possible argument about 3 plus times a day, I think it's commonly accepted that twice a day is a minimum, and if you can cast your eye over them more than twice great.
		
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Leaving it to you Amymay.....I am too busy banging my head against the desk here....


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## Ibblebibble (17 April 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			Yes, I work full time 40 - 50 hours per week. My horse still gets checked every 12 - 14 hours by myself, and also kept an eye on by YO and other liveries in the meantime.

If we have animals, we have a duty of care to them, whether we work or not.
		
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i was quoting springfeather who felt that twice a day was inadequate!!


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## vikkiandmonica (17 April 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			Leaving it to you Amymay.....I am too busy banging my head against the desk here....
		
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I'm not meaning to frustrate you, but surely you can see my point? Someone who has their horses at home or their work allows more checks a day could see you, who only sees your horse twice a day, as being irresponsible. You can manage to see your horses twice a day, therefore it makes sense that you think that is acceptable. Someone who can see theirs only once a day may therefore see that as acceptable.


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## Mrs B (17 April 2014)

From one of the earlier posts: yes. Keeping a horse properly IS a massive commitment. If they're on DIY, that means twice a day, every day, 365 days a year. For ever, until you cease ownership though selling, loaning or death. They are - through our intervention - entirely dependent on us for everything.

I am on DIY. I've run my own DIY yard. I think checking twice in 24 hours is reasonable if you keep one of these animals.

And to say "Oh - there are lots of people up at the yard every day - I'm sure someone will tell me if there's a problem" is lazy, selfish b*ll*cks. 

Why the hell should someone be responsible for your horse? So you can have a lie-in on a Sunday because you can't be arsed? Or had a late night? Or something else in your life seems (other than in a crisis) to be more important? Then stick to a riding school. Please.

No, you can't be there 24/7 and no, you can't wrap them in cotton wool, but you can be there in reasonable time to prevent excessive suffering if the worst happens.

I've owned and cared for many horses in 40-odd years. On my regular checks I've discovered 2 eye injuries, 3 potentially fatal wounds, found (and sadly had to have destroyed) 2 with colic and had numerous minor cuts in that time. 

The outcome for these cases would probably been much worse, painful and cruel if the 'I'm sure someone will call me if there's a problem' owners had been in charge. 

They're not toys to shove in a cupboard until you have time in your life and feel you'd like to play with them again!


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## Amymay (17 April 2014)

vikkiandmonica said:



			I'm not meaning to frustrate you, but surely you can see my point? Someone who has their horses at home or their work allows more checks a day could see you, who only sees your horse twice a day, as being irresponsible. You can manage to see your horses twice a day, therefore it makes sense that you think that is acceptable. Someone who can see theirs only once a day may therefore see that as acceptable.
		
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You're not frustrating me at all. And if you have your horse on part livery, whereby someone else is doing a good physical check for you at one end of the day, then that's great - and works for you.


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## Amymay (17 April 2014)

Mrs B said:



			From one of the earlier posts: yes. Keeping a horse properly IS a massive commitment. If they're on DIY, that means twice a day, every day, 365 days a year. For ever, until you cease ownership though selling, loaning or death. They are - through our intervention - entirely dependent on us for everything.

I am on DIY. I've run my own DIY yard. I think checking twice in 24 hours is reasonable if you keep one of these animals.

And to say "Oh - there are lots of people up at the yard every day - I'm sure someone will tell me if there's a problem" is lazy, selfish b*ll*cks. 

Why the hell should someone be responsible for your horse? So you can have a lie-in on a Sunday because you can't be arsed? Or had a late night? Or something else in your life seems (other than in a crisis) to be more important? Then stick to a riding school. Please.

No, you can't be there 24/7 and no, you can't wrap them in cotton wool, but you can be there in reasonable time to prevent excessive suffering if the worst happens.

I've owned and cared for many horses in 40-odd years. On my regular checks I've discovered 2 eye injuries, 3 potentially fatal wounds, found (and sadly had to have destroyed) 2 with colic and had numerous minor cuts in that time. 

The outcome for these cases would probably been much worse, painful and cruel if the 'I'm sure someone will call me if there's a problem' owners had been in charge. 

They're not toys to shove in a cupboard until you have time in your life and you'd like to play with them again!
		
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Cheers very, very loudly!!!!


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## paddi22 (17 April 2014)

windand rain said:



			And if you visit yours at 4pm and again at 8 or 9 am you leave them for 16 hours if they injured themselves at 5 minutes past 4 yours would be left for 16 hours against the 21 hours mentioned in the quote. I would guess that 5 hours would make little difference to a serious injury that had already been left for 16.
Unless you check every 15 minutes for 24/hours a day then you cannot eliminate the slight risk of injury being an issue most injuries are best treated within a golden hour
		
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completely agree with the above /\/\ I have no qualms on checking them once a day. They are brought in, checked over and ridden and then left out again till next day.  Injuries happen, but they can happen at any time. I stack the odds in my favour as much as possible with a good field, safe fencing, quiet herd and natural water supplies.  You can't wrap them in cotton wool, they are animals and injuries and scrapes do happen. But in 3 years (touch wood!) i've never taken one in injured from a field. I have seen horses die of colic on yards overnight,  sometimes horrible things just happen. They are animals that have to cope with injuries, and unless its something seriously broken then they can survive a while with them. sounds harsh but they are animals and ***** happens.


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## Pudster (17 April 2014)

paddi22 said:



			completely agree with the above /\/\ I have no qualms on checking them once a day. They are brought in, checked over and ridden and then left out again till next day.  Injuries happen, but they can happen at any time. I stack the odds in my favour as much as possible with a good field, safe fencing, quiet herd and natural water supplies.  You can't wrap them in cotton wool, they are animals and injuries and scrapes do happen. But in 3 years (touch wood!) i've never taken one in injured from a field. I have seen horses die of colic on yards overnight,  sometimes horrible things just happen. They are animals that have to cope with injuries, and unless its something seriously broken then they can survive a while with them. sounds harsh but they are animals and ***** happens.
		
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Thank you.. someone else with sense..


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## doriangrey (17 April 2014)

It's the 'twice a day is acceptable' argument that gets to me.  Horses should be checked as much as we are able or as much as we pay for.  My horses are at home but I still go to sleep for 8 hours a night, although I do get out of bed and check if I hear neighing - which happened for the last 3 nights due to mare number 1 having a season.  Who has that 'luxury' at livery?


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## Mrs B (17 April 2014)

paddi22 said:



			completely agree with the above /\/\ I have no qualms on checking them once a day. They are brought in, checked over and ridden and then left out again till next day.  Injuries happen, but they can happen at any time. I stack the odds in my favour as much as possible with a good field, safe fencing, quiet herd and natural water supplies.  You can't wrap them in cotton wool, they are animals and injuries and scrapes do happen. But in 3 years (touch wood!) i've never taken one in injured from a field. I have seen horses die of colic on yards overnight,  sometimes horrible things just happen. They are animals that have to cope with injuries, and unless its something seriously broken then they can survive a while with them. sounds harsh but they are animals and ***** happens.
		
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What a seriously awful attitude to keeping horses. I'm no bunny-hugger at all but am really pretty shocked by your post. Why SHOULD animals in our complete care have to 'cope' with injuries? And 3 years? Wow! You've seen true life with horses, obviously. Or been bl88dy lucky.

ETA Pudster, you agree? Your avatar states: 'Keep calm and love horses'. Shouldn't that read "Keep calm and your fingers crossed"?


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## _HP_ (17 April 2014)

My way or the highway eh?

Once a day works for me and mine... I may spend 3 hours up there or 5 minutes. My horses are tough and sensible, relaxed, stress free and healthy. 
IF I felt they needed checking more often I would ie unusual weather, but generally I don't feel the need to...

Personally I'd rather mine were out 24/7/365 and checked once a day than stuck in a12x12 with no freedom, unable to express natural behaviours and likely to develop unnatural ones and having to work hard instead of getting turnout as many horses have to for many months of the year...but is apparently ok as long as they are checked twice a day


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## vikkiandmonica (17 April 2014)

Mrs B said:



			What a seriously awful attitude to keeping horses. I'm no bunny-hugger at all but am really pretty shocked by your post. Why SHOULD animals in our complete care have to 'cope' with injuries? And 3 years? Wow! You've seen true life with horses, obviously. Or been bl88dy lucky.

ETA Pudster, you agree? Your avatar states: 'Keep calm and love horses'? "Shouldn't that read "Keep calm and your fingers crossed"?
		
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Surely though, if you're so set against someone just going up once a day, you'd have to look and see if you should be going up more than twice? You're still leaving your horses for at least 12 hours overnight when an injury could happen. If an injury did happen overnight, they would have to 'cope' with their injury until you got there in the morning, wouldn't they?


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## MerrySherryRider (17 April 2014)

I'm wondering what sort of yard those who feel they are the only ones who will check their horses are on. 
It can't be one with an excellent YO and a great community of owners who feel responsibility goes beyond their own horses. 
I'd hate to be on a yard like that in case something happened to my two between visits.


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## Goldenstar (17 April 2014)

Twice a day is the barest minimum I would consider to be adequate .
To many things can go wrong .
And of course if stabled people are with them on the yard most of the day.


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## Fools Motto (17 April 2014)

Checked twice a day, but not always by me.


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## Mrs B (17 April 2014)

You have to balance what's good care against what's possible of course. In my book, good care is checking yourself twice a day at least. Sometimes, I'm there more than that and yes I know others are also up there checking theirs too, but it's not their job to notice something minor with my horse! I'm sure if he were lying dead, they'd let me know but ...   What pi**es me off is those that say 'I'm sure they'll be fine. I have other thing planned/to do and someone will tell me if he/she's not ok'.

The don't have one.


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## paddi22 (17 April 2014)

Mrs B said:



			What a seriously awful attitude to keeping horses. I'm no bunny-hugger at all but am really pretty shocked by your post. Why SHOULD animals in our complete care have to 'cope' with injuries? And 3 years? Wow! You've seen true life with horses, obviously. Or been bl88dy lucky.

ETA Pudster, you agree? Your avatar states: 'Keep calm and love horses'. Shouldn't that read "Keep calm and your fingers crossed"?
		
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i've horses over 36 years and have followed the same care system at a different yard. The 2 i have now have been in their current field for 3 years and i can only get up to check and ride once a day, so that's the situation i reference now. i do believe animals have to cope with injuries because life is tough and bad things happen, and it is a case of crossing your fingers and hoping nothing happens. I know they are in a herd who are quiet and don't kick and fight. I know they stay in the same place and chill once it gets dark. So i know if they get injured in the morning i'l find it by 11 when i get there, which i feel is a fair enough time. they are ridden and fed at yard, turned back out at 3 and then left till 11 next day. i have absolutely no qualms about this. as the other poster said, if the weather was extreme, or the herd changed i'd check more often, but they are in a lovely 30 acre field, so I let them live their own lives while im not there.


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## flojo (17 April 2014)

When mine are out 24/7 they are checked several times  a day, by either me, my daughter, OH and several friends when they are up checking theirs ( me and my family give them the same courtesy). Horses have far more opportunity to injure themselves whilst they are out than when confined safely in their stables so I just can't understand some peoples attitudes regarding how often (or not!!!) they should be checked.


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## Pudster (17 April 2014)

paddi22 said:



			i've horses over 36 years and have followed the same care system at a different yard. The 2 i have now have been in their current field for 3 years and i can only get up to check and ride once a day, so that's the situation i reference now. i do believe animals have to cope with injuries because life is tough and bad things happen, and it is a case of crossing your fingers and hoping nothing happens. I know they are in a herd who are quiet and don't kick and fight. I know they stay in the same place and chill once it gets dark. So i know if they get injured in the morning i'l find it by 11 when i get there, which i feel is a fair enough time. they are ridden and fed at yard, turned back out at 3 and then left till 11 next day. i have absolutely no qualms about this. as the other poster said, if the weather was extreme, or the herd changed i'd check more often, but they are in a lovely 30 acre field, so I let them live their own lives while im not there.
		
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This Exactly.. 

Also to MrsB  NO.. I do not 'Keep Calm and Fingers Crossed' at all.. I know my horse well and I keep him well, and just because I don't choose to go to him twice a day does not make me incompetent. I have GOOD friends that know and look out for my horse as I do theirs.  I cannot believe how judgemental this forum can be. WOW I really wish I could afford the 24/7 grooms that you all seem to have working for you.. Unfortunaltly have to work bl**dy hard for a living. Also, when I did have my boy on part livery, their idea of a field check was a 200 yard glance that he did have four legs.. that I was charged £3 for that duty.. So, I ask..? How many of you have part/ full liveries with this option.. maybe its time to check it out..? (when I found this out yes I moved to where I am now.. a much more trusted small yard).

A


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## flirtygerty (17 April 2014)

paddi22 said:



			i'l get shot down now but i only get to check mine once a day. They aren't rugged or have fly masks so nothing like that can come off. I do my best to have them in a safe secure field with tons of space and I just have to hope all goes well. I don't have the time to drop down morning and evening. I bring them up to ride and check them in yard, and then they are left down again to field till next day
		
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I have my horses at home, I was on the phone when I noticed my OH's TB behaving oddly in the field, asked my OH to check, then saw him stripping the TB's rugs off, I hing up on my call, went to my OH and TB, who was sweating profusely due to an injured hind leg, it took four of us to persuade the TB into a stable, hopping on three legs on muddy sloping ground, he went up and over the garden to avoid the mud, long story short, a week later he came down with pain related colic and we lost him due to his heart giving out during the colic attack. I am still haunted by the thought of, how long would he have been stood in pain if he had been on a livery yard
I check mine first thing, if I pop home, on route home and to give them various supplements


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## Fides (17 April 2014)

Mine are checked in the morning, at tea time and before bed, plus any other time someone checks on them. If we only did 2 checks poor Nookle would have died cold and muddy in the field, rather than in a warm dry stable... Some people may say I check more than necessary but for this one reason it was worth it. He died knowing he was loved rather than cold and alone


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## Goldenstar (17 April 2014)

Here's another way to look at it ,how long is it reasonable for a horse with colic to cope alone .


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## Holidays_are_coming (17 April 2014)

I think this is the longest thread I have started.

 I have many times spotted things with other people's horses and gotten them in and then contacted the owner, I would never leave a horse suffering, however I don't apply fly repellent or physically touch other people's horses unless I am asked too. I was just shocked that these mainly young girls think its ok not to get there bums out of bed to see there horse's are ok.


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## MerrySherryRider (17 April 2014)

Goldenstar said:



			Here's another way to look at it ,how long is it reasonable for a horse with colic to cope alone .
		
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Last horse with colic on my yard was last week. Noticed by another livery whilst owner was still on the yard. Horse was fine after being walked but YO checked the horse every two hours through the night just in case, as he does with any horse.  
 I'm getting the feeling from some of the posts that on some yards, no one looks out for anyone else.


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## flojo (17 April 2014)

Pudster said:



			I cannot believe how judgemental this forum can be. WOW I really wish I could afford the 24/7 grooms that you all seem to have working for you.. Unfortunaltly have to work bl**dy hard for a living.
		
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Judgemental or people offering their opinions as was the point of this thread?

I also work Bl***y hard for a living as a full time Nurse in an acute setting, my husband has a manual job and my daughter is at Uni, but between us we MAKE time.


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## Fides (17 April 2014)

flojo said:



			Judgemental or people offering their opinions as was the point of this thread?

I also work Bl***y hard for a living as a full time Nurse in an acute setting, my husband has a manual job and my daughter is at Uni, but between us we MAKE time.
		
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This... And if I couldn't make time I wouldn't have  a horse - and I have come close to giving up


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## Pudster (17 April 2014)

flojo said:



			Judgemental or people offering their opinions as was the point of this thread?

I also work Bl***y hard for a living as a full time Nurse in an acute setting, my husband has a manual job and my daughter is at Uni, but between us we MAKE time.
		
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That's great.. 2 free grooms.. But for us alone.. I work hard for me and my horse only.. no one else to help.. DIY.. means do it yourself.. and I do in sickness and health.. (if only once a day in Summer) but I do it and  I am at the end of the phone & 30 minutes away at a push for me to get there.. it would take my vet longer..  Everyone has an individual case, and it is wrong for anyone to make assumptions either way, if I have then I apologise. :/

I give every care I can and do to my horse. If I could get to him twice a day then, great.. but unfortunatly this is not possible.. in Winter, my work will make allowances and yes twice a day without question, come summer I need to make up the time, which is where my friends come into it.. I still have a very good employer that allows me to leave for any problem as they would if I had children.
Sorry again If I have come across as brash.. I didn't mean to..


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## Moomin1 (17 April 2014)

Pudster said:



			That's great.. 2 free grooms.. But for us alone.. I work hard for me and my horse only.. no one else to help.. DIY.. means do it yourself.. and I do in sickness and health.. (if only once a day in Summer) but I do it and  I am at the end of the phone & 30 minutes away at a push for me to get there.. it would take my vet longer..  Everyone has an individual case, and it is wrong for anyone to make assumptions either way, if I have then I apologise. :/

I give every care I can and do to my horse. If I could get to him twice a day then, great.. but unfortunatly this is not possible.. in Winter, my work will make allowances and yes twice a day without question, come summer I need to make up the time, which is where my friends come into it.. I still have a very good employer that allows me to leave for any problem as they would if I had children.
Sorry again If I have come across as brash.. I didn't mean to.. 

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I am on DIY. I work full time up to 50 hours per week.  My horse gets checked more than once per day. By me.  And yes, it does mean that sometimes I am getting home at midnight and beyond.


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## flirtygerty (17 April 2014)

Mrs B said:



			From one of the earlier posts: yes. Keeping a horse properly IS a massive commitment. If they're on DIY, that means twice a day, every day, 365 days a year. For ever, until you cease ownership though selling, loaning or death. They are - through our intervention - entirely dependent on us for everything.

I am on DIY. I've run my own DIY yard. I think checking twice in 24 hours is reasonable if you keep one of these animals.

And to say "Oh - there are lots of people up at the yard every day - I'm sure someone will tell me if there's a problem" is lazy, selfish b*ll*cks. 

Why the hell should someone be responsible for your horse? So you can have a lie-in on a Sunday because you can't be arsed? Or had a late night? Or something else in your life seems (other than in a crisis) to be more important? Then stick to a riding school. Please.

No, you can't be there 24/7 and no, you can't wrap them in cotton wool, but you can be there in reasonable time to prevent excessive suffering if the worst happens.

I've owned and cared for many horses in 40-odd years. On my regular checks I've discovered 2 eye injuries, 3 potentially fatal wounds, found (and sadly had to have destroyed) 2 with colic and had numerous minor cuts in that time. 

The outcome for these cases would probably been much worse, painful and cruel if the 'I'm sure someone will call me if there's a problem' owners had been in charge. 

They're not toys to shove in a cupboard until you have time in your life and feel you'd like to play with them again!
		
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Well said, when we went to collect our new horse, the YO mentioned he had been injured 3 days prior, his loaner hadn't been up for a while, so nothing had been done about a huge injury to the inside of his hock, if I was a YO could I ignore such an injury? Don't think so, he was very lucky not to get an infection in it, neither owner nor loaner cared enough to do right by this lad, I had to insist on the owner coming to check the wound prior to the vet being called, horse now has a home for life, just because I care


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## Pudster (17 April 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			I am on DIY. I work full time up to 50 hours per week.  My horse gets checked more than once per day. By me.  And yes, it does mean that sometimes I am getting home at midnight and beyond.
		
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So you don't have any good friends that know your horse well enough to tell you that something is wrong.? I love my boy.. Believe me.. people are bored by conversations, as they are all about my horse.. What would happen if you physically could not make it there.. for whatever reason.. (not putting it here, but you know what I'm saying.. Is there anyone that you would trust to say yeah, your horse is good..?  
If not.. well that is really sad..


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## flirtygerty (17 April 2014)

_HP_ said:



			My way or the highway eh?

Once a day works for me and mine... I may spend 3 hours up there or 5 minutes. My horses are tough and sensible, relaxed, stress free and healthy. 
IF I felt they needed checking more often I would ie unusual weather, but generally I don't feel the need to...

Personally I'd rather mine were out 24/7/365 and checked once a day than stuck in a12x12 with no freedom, unable to express natural behaviours and likely to develop unnatural ones and having to work hard instead of getting turnout as many horses have to for many months of the year...but is apparently ok as long as they are checked twice a day 

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Get yourself a budgie, then you can just turn your head and check it, once a day for animals that love to hurt themselves is totally un acceptable


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## SO1 (17 April 2014)

So how do Defra deal with the ponies on the new forest or on Exmoor or in the welsh mountains?

There are over 3000 ponies out on the new forest and there is no way the rangers could check each pony twice a day in the way that many people would feel would be acceptable e.g. not a visual check but a check that involves touching the pony all over. 

I check my pony once a day during the week this is normally after 6.30 as I work full time. None of the other liveries who I share the field with work so they tend to come up during the day but not in the evening. None of the ponies/horses in the field are checked twice in the way that most people would think would be acceptable [eg touched all over} but they are visually checked as YO, and the other liveries go down in the day and I am normally around in the evenings when I physically check my pony. We don't have a formal arrangement but I always check the other horses visually when I get my pony in or go down to check him. I also have an informal arrangement with another livery who does not work that she will fly spray her horse and my pony in the summer during the day and then I will spray them both again in evening when I come up, as in the summer the flies stay around until sunset so are annoying for long periods of time.

We also have a public footpath running through one of the field so lots of dog walker and other around too and as we all have a bit of team spirit if we noticed there was anything wrong we would of course help each other.


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## Moomin1 (17 April 2014)

Pudster said:



			So you don't have any good friends that know your horse well enough to tell you that something is wrong.? I love my boy.. Believe me.. people are bored by conversations, as they are all about my horse.. What would happen if you physically could not make it there.. for whatever reason.. (not putting it here, but you know what I'm saying.. Is there anyone that you would trust to say yeah, your horse is good..?  
If not.. well that is really sad..
		
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There is only one other livery at the yard.  Funnily enough, they have their own lives, and guess what....my horse is MY responsibility, not theirs to check and deal with on a daily basis.  

As for emergencies, of course I have people able to go up and sort her.  

Do you not have any good friends to check your horse more than once per day?


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## doriangrey (17 April 2014)

Goldenstar said:



			Here's another way to look at it ,how long is it reasonable for a horse with colic to cope alone .
		
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Not a bloody second, so as I'm on hand 24 hours I should condemn every horse owner who isn't by this thread?


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## Moomin1 (17 April 2014)

SO1 said:



			So how do Defra deal with the ponies on the new forest or on Exmoor or in the welsh mountains?

There are over 3000 ponies out on the new forest and there is no way the rangers could check each pony twice a day in the way that many people would feel would be acceptable e.g. not a visual check but a check that involves touching the pony all over. 

I check my pony once a day during the week this is normally after 6.30 as I work full time. None of the other liveries who I share the field with work so they tend to come up during the day but not in the evening. None of the ponies/horses in the field are checked twice in the way that most people would think would be acceptable [eg touched all over} but they are visually checked as YO, and the other liveries go down in the day and I am normally around in the evenings. We don't have a formal arrangement but I always check the other horses visually when I get my pony in or go down to check him. I also have an informal arrangement with another livery who does not work that she will fly spray her horse and my pony in the summer during the day and then I will spray them both again in evening when I come up, as in the summer the flies stay around until sunset so are annoying for long periods of time.
		
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It would not be reasonable in all the circumstances to be checking 3000 ponies living feral twice per day, would it?  Clearly not.

I don't know how many of those people who have commented on this thread that they only go once per day actually have 3000 ponies......


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## Moomin1 (17 April 2014)

doriangrey said:



			Not a bloody second, so as I'm on hand 24 hours I should condemn every horse owner who isn't by this thread?
		
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Of course it's not reasonable to expect people to be there 24 hours a day.  Just like it's not reasonable for someone to have a horse and only shift their backside up once per day to see it, without making suitable arrangements for someone else to check it either.


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## MerrySherryRider (17 April 2014)

How those of you who insist on checking your horses yourselves manage when you are away or sick ? Do you trust someone else then or are you there  twice every day of the year ? Surely you ask the YO or another livery ?


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## Pudster (17 April 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			There is only one other livery at the yard.  Funnily enough, they have their own lives, and guess what....my horse is MY responsibility, not theirs to check and deal with on a daily basis.  

As for emergencies, of course I have people able to go up and sort her.  

Do you not have any good friends to check your horse more than once per day?
		
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Yes, my friend does the morning and I do the evening.. so twice a day.. but, it seems this is not enough for you.. so argue to someone else.. I'm bored of you now.


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## Moomin1 (17 April 2014)

MerrySherryRider said:



			How those of you who insist on checking your horses yourselves manage when you are away or sick ? Do you trust someone else then or are you there  twice every day of the year ? Surely you ask the YO or another livery ?
		
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Are you seriously still not getting it?! I thought I had explained this?  There is NO problem with an owner not attending twice a day, IF they have someone else doing it instead.

Yes, if I go away, my mother looks after my horse in the mornings, and I pay someone to come in and look after her in the evenings.  

She still gets dealt with twice per day - for hours each time.


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## SO1 (17 April 2014)

But if it acceptable for the semi feral ponies not to be checked twice a day and touched all over then why is this different in terms of welfare? In implying that it is not reasonable to expect those with large numbers of equines to check them twice a day, then it is not about welfare it is? If horses need to be checked twice day then this should be happening regardless of the number of horses someone owns?



Moomin1 said:



			It would not be reasonable in all the circumstances to be checking 3000 ponies living feral twice per day, would it?  Clearly not.

I don't know how many of those people who have commented on this thread that they only go once per day actually have 3000 ponies......
		
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## flirtygerty (17 April 2014)

_HP_ said:



			Once a day mostly.....
Mine are in a secure field, with an automatic waterer and an extra trough that I fill myself each day. They get a handful of hay and a balancer when I go up to check on them. They have access to a shelter, a concrete yard and their 1-5 acres ( depending on time of year).
They are not made of china and have both survived 18 yrs without being wrapped up in cotton wool.
		
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This thread is boiling my p, with the general it won't happen attitude, an accident in the field only needs to happen once, for it to be life changing, due to a field accident, I had a beloved horse die having his forehead scratched during a colic attack, I will never forget the desperation I felt watching this horse keep going down in his box, I even asked the vet, at what point will you worry, even the vet was pleading with the horse to stay down and rest, easing his injured leg from trying to rise, I worked 12hr shifts at the time and got up at 4 30am to check the horses before work my neighbor checked them through the day till I got home at 8pm


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## Moomin1 (17 April 2014)

Pudster said:



			Yes, my friend does the morning and I do the evening.. so twice a day.. but, it seems this is not enough for you.. so argue to someone else.. I'm bored of you now.
		
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I have NOT SAID anywhere that a friend doing one shift, and you doing the other is wrong have I?!! I have said it's perfectly acceptable.  I am talking about people who only have their horses checked once in 24 hours by ANYONE.


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## Moomin1 (17 April 2014)

SO1 said:



			But if it acceptable for the semi feral ponies not to be checked twice a day and touched all over then why is this different in terms of welfare? In implying that it is not reasonable to expect those with large numbers of equines to check them twice a day, then it is not about welfare it is? If horses need to be checked twice day then this should be happening regardless of the number of horses someone owns?
		
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Oh seriously, get a grip.  

I don't understand how this concept of someone taking responsibility for their own horses is so difficult to grasp on this thread....


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## Pudster (17 April 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			I have NOT SAID anywhere that a friend doing one shift, and you doing the other is wrong have I?!! I have said it's perfectly acceptable.  I am talking about people who only have their horses checked once in 24 hours by ANYONE.
		
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Ooohh, okay lovey... no need to shout. Just seemed that you were of the thinking that anyone that didn't check their own horses twice a day was to be dammed.. thats all.


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## Moomin1 (17 April 2014)

Pudster said:



			Ooohh, okay lovey... no need to shout. Just seemed that you were of the thinking that anyone that didn't check their own horses twice a day was to be dammed.. thats all. 

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Jeez - if you read back I have repeated numerous times that that is not the case.

I give up.


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## Goldenstar (17 April 2014)

What a strange thread and some strange opinions .
I am shocked that there are people who think it's acceptable that their horses are only seen once a day .
I don't get the point about semi feral horses at all just because some horses live feral lives does and no one gets prosecuted does not mean I should be happy to have mine checked once a day .
It's MY horses I am bothered about they are my responsibility how other people chose to muddle through has no bearing on what I think is acceptable for mine.


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## flirtygerty (17 April 2014)

SO1 said:



			So how do Defra deal with the ponies on the new forest or on Exmoor or in the welsh mountains?

There are over 3000 ponies out on the new forest and there is no way the rangers could check each pony twice a day in the way that many people would feel would be acceptable e.g. not a visual check but a check that involves touching the pony all over. 

I check my pony once a day during the week this is normally after 6.30 as I work full time. None of the other liveries who I share the field with work so they tend to come up during the day but not in the evening. None of the ponies/horses in the field are checked twice in the way that most people would think would be acceptable [eg touched all over} but they are visually checked as YO, and the other liveries go down in the day and I am normally around in the evenings when I physically check my pony. We don't have a formal arrangement but I always check the other horses visually when I get my pony in or go down to check him. I also have an informal arrangement with another livery who does not work that she will fly spray her horse and my pony in the summer during the day and then I will spray them both again in evening when I come up, as in the summer the flies stay around until sunset so are annoying for long periods of time.

We also have a public footpath running through one of the field so lots of dog walker and other around too and as we all have a bit of team spirit if we noticed there was anything wrong we would of course help each other.
		
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And how many NF ponies are injured by cars each day and struggle on three legs, infected injuries etc, you have just clerified the need to check as often as possible


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## Pudster (17 April 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			Jeez - if you read back I have repeated numerous times that that is not the case.

I give up.
		
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Cool.. So Truce..  lol


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## Spring Feather (17 April 2014)

Ibblebibble said:



			because not all of us have horses as our business/at home so we have to do that damn inconvenient thing called work 

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Yes all of my livery clients work long hard hours too.  That's why they pay me to make sure their horses are safe at all times :smile3:


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## flirtygerty (18 April 2014)

MerrySherryRider said:



			How those of you who insist on checking your horses yourselves manage when you are away or sick ? Do you trust someone else then or are you there  twice every day of the year ? Surely you ask the YO or another livery ?
		
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I have checked my horses even when I could hardly stand due to breathing problems, even my doctor told me off for going to the surgery, I should have called her out apparently, my horses, my responsibil;ity.


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## windand rain (18 April 2014)

You see personally I feel my ponies are far less likely to be injured or ill while living out I could never condone and would never keep a horse or pony that had to spend more than 8 hours in a stable on any one day never mind for months on end I may only visit mine once a day for several hours in that day but they are happy, settled , well fed and content I have been keeping horses for over 40 years and only once had one with colic that was last week when the numpty pony ate a lump of tail hair he was fine after about an hour but he went down while we were there and he wasnt left until he was contentedly grazing He was checked by me several times that day to make sure he did not relapse.
I have seen many livery horses severely injured and die painfully of colic when they were stabled so I guess it is not such a safe place after all. Horses and ponies can and do get colic and recover in the hours the owner is in bed sadly some dont but they are the ones that it is unlikely would have recovered if you had been there. Cuts are the same if a horse is cut and bleeding the injury will either resolve or bleed out in a very short space of time either scenario is unaffected by the owner being there an hour or 8 or 16  after the event it is highly unlikely that if they are going to injure themseves they will do so while you are watching that is about as rare as a lottery win


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## MerrySherryRider (18 April 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			Oh seriously, get a grip.  

I don't understand how this concept of someone taking responsibility for their own horses is so difficult to grasp on this thread....
		
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But you don't seem to see beyond your own circumstances.
 Some of us have an equally valid system of ensuring all horses on our yard are well and healthy. It also means that for novice owners, they have the benefit of another set of eyes.


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## Spring Feather (18 April 2014)

MerrySherryRider said:



			But you don't seem to see beyond your own circumstances.
 Some of us have an equally valid system of ensuring all horses on our yard are well and healthy. It also means that for novice owners, they have the benefit of another set of eyes.
		
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But she does.  She's said so many many times that horses on livery, where they are checked frequently by anyone and everyone, is perfectly fine :smile3:


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## MerrySherryRider (18 April 2014)

flirtygerty said:



			I have checked my horses even when I could hardly stand due to breathing problems, even my doctor told me off for going to the surgery, I should have called her out apparently, my horses, my responsibil;ity.
		
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And you never have to visit a sick family member or go to a wedding ? If you are available twice a day for your horses, that's great, but in times of crisis, my family comes first and I have to be an irresponsible horse owner and get the YO look after them.


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## MerrySherryRider (18 April 2014)

Spring Feather said:



			But she does.  She's said so many many times that horses on livery, where they are checked frequently by anyone and everyone, is perfectly fine :smile3:
		
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I don't think she does. She says both checks should be done by the owner or a specific person.


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## flirtygerty (18 April 2014)

MerrySherryRider said:



			And you never have to visit a sick family member or go to a wedding ? If you are available twice a day for your horses, that's great, but in times of crisis, my family comes first and I have to be an irresponsible horse owner and get the YO look after them.
		
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Exactly, they are not left to their own devices and someone you trust is looking out for them


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## Moomin1 (18 April 2014)

MerrySherryRider said:



			I don't think she does. She says both checks should be done by the owner or a specific person.
		
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You can't be for real now. How do you not grasp what I have said so so many times?! Other people seem to!


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## Goldenstar (18 April 2014)

If I am away my grooms care for my horses .
My parents stay in my house .
If i am away a while my friend pops in and best friend a vet will look in too .
I prefer to to see them myself but clearly you have to have a life and sometimes that takes you away .
It does not need to be the owner who sees the horse .


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## MerrySherryRider (18 April 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			You can't be for real now. How do you not grasp what I have said so so many times?! Other people seem to!
		
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SF says you think its fine for anyone and everyone to check someone's horses. I was under the impression that you think it should be either the owner or a named person. 

I'm just glad I'm on my lovely yard with such a great group of horse owners after reading some of the responses on here.


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## flojo (18 April 2014)

Pudster said:



			That's great.. 2 free grooms..
		
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Free?.. Believe me a full time groom would be cheaper than my daughter


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## Polar Bear9 (18 April 2014)

So every single yard I have ever been at the YO has fed and turned my horses out in the morning then I have gone up in the evening and mucked out/ ridden/groomed/ fussed/ prepared haynets/done feed for the next day. I have had school then college then uni then work meaning I can't go up in the mornings. Have me and every other livery at every yard I have ever been at been neglectful as we have gone up once a day?


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## YorksG (18 April 2014)

We have had our horses at home for the last twenty years and are therefore checked many times a day. Prior to that they were at a DIY yard with a YO on site who did checks early morning and late night, we still went at least twice each day. The first horse we had was kept on a farm, our parents bought him for us, Dad checked him in the morning, farmers family kept an eye out and sis and I checked in the evening. To have an animal not checked by anyone for 24 hours is irresponsible, in my opinion. If you take on an animal, then you accept the responsibility. If either of us is ill or away, then the other takes the whole responsibility, we never both go away for longer than a day, but if we did then we would pay for someone to check several times in the day.


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## SO1 (18 April 2014)

My point about feral ponies is related to Defra because I don't think people should be given the idea that they are at risk of being prosecuted by Defra if they are not checking their grass kept horses twice a day. I doubt Defra would be interested in prosecuting anyone if their horse did die of an injury and had only been checked once a day if the horse was in good condition and had shelter, food, water. The costs of prosecuting someone are so high that even people who are neglecting their horses in such a way that their health is obviously suffering on a day to day basis rather than an accident in the field don't get prosecuted when they should do.

Moomin then implied that how often horses should be checked would depend on what is reasonable in the circumstances so it would not be expected that semi feral horses would be checked physically twice a day as there are so many of them and as they are not used to be physically handled it would not be practical, which I do understand. But it does go against that view that all horses should be checked twice a day regardless of people's circumstances and that they are at risk of prosecution if they do not do so. 

In an ideal world horses would get a full inspection every couple of hours but we don't live in an ideal world and I expect the majority of horses that are checked once a day are in good condition and healthy especially as they are probably kept on yards where there are other people going down to the field who may not be giving the horses a full body inspection but who would notice if something serious was wrong which is very different from being in a field with no other liveries in the middle of no-where.

Even stabled horses who are seen to twice a day may not be actually given a full body inspection as if someone is in a hurry to turnout in the morning before work and it is dark they may not notice if the horse has got injured overnight in the stable or is looking unwell, same goes for catching in in the evening, if it is dark and the injury is not obvious something could also get missed by yard staff or an owner.


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## Pudster (18 April 2014)

flojo said:



			Free?.. Believe me a full time groom would be cheaper than my daughter   
	
	
		
		
	


	




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LOL... Hence I don't have or want children..! My boy is all I need and by this thred.. *it not not enough in summer..! hahaha) Oh well guess he will just have to deal with it...!

But, just to add.. When I did work as a groom (many years ago..) I was taught to read the horses body language, you get to know each and every personality of every horse..(I had over 60 in my charge that I did veterinary checks for each and every morning. This check could not be dont on a 2 or even 6 hourly basis) it was complested every morning. 

So although I was on the yard from 7am to 7pm after that there were still 12 hours (ok, 7-8 hours after last checks) that horses could still get into trouble. No amount of checking is going to stop this. Horses get out of field, stables. etc.. and Colic at 11pm after a night on the town.. but we are always there. That it good owners of our beloved best friends.. So please don't think that because* some  *of us don't go up 3-4-5 times a day in the summer when they are out 24/7 don't love our horses anymore than those that can.. 
We are are all part of this forum for the love that those 4 legged (sometimes 2 legs..?!) beasts.. 
And I don't think anyone of us here would willingly do wrong by our horses..
Sorry that was soooo long.. but felt that I needed to make up.. x
(excuse spelling and grammer, even I can't be bothered to proof read that one..!!)


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## dogatemysalad (18 April 2014)

Seems I'm a bad, irresponsible, sloppy, crappy owner. 

 Oh well.


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## Pudster (18 April 2014)

dogatemysalad said:



			Seems I'm a bad, irresponsible, sloppy, crappy owner. 

 Oh well.
		
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Don't worry me too..!! lol.. x


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## Queenbee (18 April 2014)

Ben and Tilly the other horse I care for are checked twice a day, however, I pay for am check, feed and turnout/bring in by YO as it costs me less than it would in petrol.  I go up in the evening, muck out/ride/feed and check, but someone has always got an eye on them as YO lives on site.


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## Amymay (18 April 2014)

Pudster said:



			Ooohh, okay lovey... no need to shout. Just seemed that you were of the thinking that anyone that didn't check their own horses twice a day was to be dammed.. thats all. 

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At no point has Moomin said that actually. Her only point has been to advocate having a horse checked twice a day. If that means at one end of the day by YO owner, or fellow livery, so be it. The point is a hands on physical check would be deemed a bare minimum requirement that horse owners should be seeking. A sentiment I wholly agree with.


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## Queenbee (18 April 2014)

windand rain said:



			You see personally I feel my ponies are far less likely to be injured or ill while living out I could never condone and would never keep a horse or pony that had to spend more than 8 hours in a stable on any one day never mind for months on end I may only visit mine once a day for several hours in that day but they are happy, settled , well fed and content I have been keeping horses for over 40 years and only once had one with colic that was last week when the numpty pony ate a lump of tail hair he was fine after about an hour but he went down while we were there and he wasnt left until he was contentedly grazing He was checked by me several times that day to make sure he did not relapse.
I have seen many livery horses severely injured and die painfully of colic when they were stabled so I guess it is not such a safe place after all. Horses and ponies can and do get colic and recover in the hours the owner is in bed sadly some dont but they are the ones that it is unlikely would have recovered if you had been there. Cuts are the same if a horse is cut and bleeding the injury will either resolve or bleed out in a very short space of time either scenario is unaffected by the owner being there an hour or 8 or 16  after the event it is highly unlikely that if they are going to injure themseves they will do so while you are watching that is about as rare as a lottery win
		
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Whilst I understand your sentiment and your argument, most horses stabled in the winter in particular do spend more than 8 hrs a day stabled and without incident.  My old mare, far preferred life outdoors, yet coped well enough with stabling, although knowing her preference, I ensured she was stabled for as little time overnight as possible during winter only, Ben on the other hand, is a different kettle of fish entirely.  On his summer schedule, he is bought in around 7 am and turned out between 3 pm and 5 pm every day, in the winter, he is bought in at 5 pm and goes right through until 7 am in his stable, I can just imagine his face if you tried to reduce that... He would be incredibly peeved!  He comes in, stuffs his face, lies down and sleeps, stuffs his face some more, has a poo and maybe a drink, then back to sleep.  He ambles out to the field in the morning like a lamb after breakfast, and will happily graze unless I happen to turn up in the late morning, at which point he comes cantering to the gate (even if he has only just been out for an hr or so).  He is also really bleeding miffed if he is in the field in the afternoon (standing by the gate as he does all afternoon from about 2.30 onwards) and I happen to go to my car after mucking his stable out, thinking I'm going to leave him out all night -  he looks at me and whinnies, just to remind me he's still outside.  

The point I'm trying to make is, just because it's more natural to horses to be out all the time, doesn't mean it's what they all favour most.  I have absolutely no problem with a horse living out 24/7 if that suits the horse (and although ebony did spend time stabled there were many years when she didn't) but for Ben, I simply wouldn't be able to be happy turning him out like that, because I know he really does love his time stabled.


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## NZJenny (18 April 2014)

My horses live out 24/7 all year around as is mostly the NZ way.  It's a 30 km round trip, so they get checked once a day.  And yes, accidents can happen, but given it's a big paddock and they are pretty smart horses, they seem to manage to stay out of trouble.

I can only think of one in the last 15 years, and that was when the property owner let them out and my youngster ended up with a nasty gash, however she survived.  I tend to go for low maintenance horses though, the thought of having horses that needed checking several times a day is a luxury I just can't afford, owing to how I do need to earn a living.

PS: PO is elderly and does cows not horses and he would struggle to tell you how many should be there, so no, he doesn't check them.


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## hairycob (18 April 2014)

Last Friday I checked my horse in the morning. Went into the field, made a fuss of him & he was fine. When I got there after work he wasn't. If I hadn't gone again until the morning he would have died in agony in the field instead of being pts with me comforting him. 
That is what Moomin is trying to get across.


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## Holidays_are_coming (18 April 2014)

That is my point hairycob, I may glance at the others in my field but I may not notice that they don't want to move thinking they are just asleep and as I haven't been asked to check them it isn't my place. 

My own horse as  a minimum gets moved and all legs checked twice a day.


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## slumdog (18 April 2014)

When I was a teenager myself, my mum and my younger sister kept our ponies at a riding school. It was sold and the new owner was awful. The ponies were turned out in a big field about 200 yards out of the drive and up the road, there was no lessons in the week so they went from being checked by the previous yard owner every day to not being checked for a week at a time when they were dragged in for a lesson. My mum and my sister (who was around 12) went over one day, I forget why, to find one of the poor little ponies colicing in the deep mud by the gate, he was dripping with sweat and had mud in his eyes, ears and nose. God knows how long the poor thing had been thrashing around for. They rang the new yo who just said "well get him up and bring him back then" 
The poor thing could have been lying there dying by himself for days. It still haunts me now.


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## TigerTail (18 April 2014)

Twice a day regardless - having just been leaving after my 2nd check 2 years ago and hear galloping hooves and turn round to see one of my livery's horses gallop headlong into the other and break its shoulder I will never ever not go at least twice. I still see that over and over in my head, the sound of the shoulder breaking was like a cannon shot.


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## Tiddlypom (18 April 2014)

Bear9 said:



			So every single yard I have ever been at the YO has fed and turned my horses out in the morning then I have gone up in the evening and mucked out/ ridden/groomed/ fussed/ prepared haynets/done feed for the next day. I have had school then college then uni then work meaning I can't go up in the mornings. Have me and every other livery at every yard I have ever been at been neglectful as we have gone up once a day?
		
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You seem not to have read all the earlier posts, as this has been covered before.

No one has suggested that the owner has to check their horse(s) twice daily in person. Any competent and responsible *designated* person could do the checks whether they are yard staff/fellow livery/granny/friend/whatever. 

The main thrust of the thread is what happens when horses are out 24/7, so 'could' cope without extra feed or water being supplied to them in that time.


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## MotherOfChickens (18 April 2014)

Ooh, missed the fun. Am with moomin. Mine are at home and we work-physical checks 3 x daily without fail. Atm they are out 24/7 in grazing 2 miles away to give mine a rest-they are still properly checked 3 x a day. I check for pulses, heat in legs, signs of illness as am paranoid about grass sickness.


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## RunToEarth (18 April 2014)

Another one who is shocked any responsible owner would not bother to check on their own horses at least twice a day. 

Ours are at home so it is admittedly easier, but I would check them wherever they are - your horse is your responsibility. When I was younger a livery's horse got itself caught on it's feed bucket handle (hate people leaving buckets with handles in fields and hate people turning out in poly headcollars!!) it caused some serious damage to it's face and lost an eyeball - owner tried to prosecute my mum (YO) for negligence but didn't get anywhere because actually, if you own a horse you have to take reasonable steps to make sure it is not hanging upside down in a tree somewhere.


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## Sprout (18 April 2014)

Mine are at home, so its easy for me to keep an eye on them all the time, but when they were in livery, I checked them twice a day .... my horses, my responsibility.


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## dogatemysalad (18 April 2014)

Holidays_are_coming said:



			That is my point hairycob, I may glance at the others in my field but I may not notice that they don't want to move thinking they are just asleep and as I haven't been asked to check them it isn't my place. 

My own horse as  a minimum gets moved and all legs checked twice a day.
		
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Why isn't it your place ? Would you walk past a horse in your field and not be satisfied that it was well and behaving normally ? 
If I thought that my YO and fellow liveries only looked out for their own, two checks a day still wouldn't be enough. It'd be a real worry. 

Perhaps this attitude is common on some yards.


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## Moomin1 (18 April 2014)

dogatemysalad said:



			Why isn't it your place ? Would you walk past a horse in your field and not be satisfied that it was well and behaving normally ? 
If I thought that my YO and fellow liveries only looked out for their own, two checks a day still wouldn't be enough. It'd be a real worry. 

Perhaps this attitude is common on some yards.
		
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And there lies the exact point!  Without making a proper arrangement for someone to check thoroughly, you cannot guarantee that joe bloggs who has the horse two stables up is going to check your horse properly. They may be in a hurry one day, and purely rush to check their own without going around all the others which they haven't been asked to check anyway.


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## risky business (18 April 2014)

I didn't only because in my 24/7 turn out livery I got a morning feed and check and also an evening feed and check included. 

If I hadn't had that though I would have checked morning and night.


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## dogatemysalad (18 April 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			And there lies the exact point!  Without making a proper arrangement for someone to check thoroughly, you cannot guarantee that joe bloggs who has the horse two stables up is going to check your horse properly. They may be in a hurry one day, and purely rush to check their own without going around all the others which they haven't been asked to check anyway.
		
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Yes, I can see that after reading some of the replies on here. I'm quite shocked that some people have such a lack of mutual support. Horses being horses need as much monitoring as possible. You need to be confident that the yard has a system where staff and liveries don't just look out for their own. 
How heart breaking it would be, if you diligently checked your horses 2 or 3 times a day and they had an accident after your visit, but no one bothered to check that EVERY horse was ok. 

I suppose that's why this forum is so useful, learning about different experiences. I've never been on a yard where I wasn't happy to leave my horses between visits.


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## Goldenstar (18 April 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			And there lies the exact point!  Without making a proper arrangement for someone to check thoroughly, you cannot guarantee that joe bloggs who has the horse two stables up is going to check your horse properly. They may be in a hurry one day, and purely rush to check their own without going around all the others which they haven't been asked to check anyway.
		
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This is exactly the point.
If the owner or someone whose roll it is to check the horse sees the horse twice daily it's a minimum backstop .
If a horse says starts with colic on a livery yard someone is likely to notice but if a horse has say a puncture wound in a joint twenty three hours later the horse is probably a goner in truth after 11 you would be in trouble .
People out and about on the yard might not notice something like that without being uncaring.
A horses turned out in a field rented by the owner where other people are not about could be dead of colic in 23 hours an unacceptable time to suffer in my book.
Twice a day hands over them rugs off is a minimum in my book but it does not need to be the owner .


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## _HP_ (18 April 2014)

flirtygerty said:



			Get yourself a budgie, then you can just turn your head and check it, once a day for animals that love to hurt themselves is totally un acceptable
		
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Maybe your management is wrong if your horses love to hurt themselves 
Mine don't ...and I've never had one that does.


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## Holidays_are_coming (18 April 2014)

Goldenstar said:



			This is exactly the point.
If the owner or someone whose roll it is to check the horse sees the horse twice daily
 it's a minimum backstop .
If a horse says starts with colic on a livery yard someone is likely to notice but if a horse has say a puncture wound in a joint twenty three hours later the horse is probably a goner in truth after 11 you would be in trouble .
People out and about on the yard might not notice something like that without being uncaring.
A horses turned out in a field rented by the owner where other people are not about could be dead of colic in 23 hours an unacceptable time to suffer in my book.
Twice a day hands over them rugs off is a minimum in my book but it does not need to be the owner .
		
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This is my point if the horse is showing obvious signs I would never leave it but if on a glance it looks fine and is the other side of the field I very rarely have time to go over and check.  My horse is my responsibility not every person who can't be bothered to get out of bed (the case at my yard).


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## Moomin1 (18 April 2014)

_HP_ said:



			Maybe your management is wrong if your horses love to hurt themselves 
Mine don't ...and I've never had one that does.
		
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Oh well you may aswell leave yours all week then. They clearly are completely exempt from EVER becoming ill or injured. Absolutely idiotic attitude to keeping horses.


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## _HP_ (18 April 2014)

flirtygerty said:



			This thread is boiling my p, with the general it won't happen attitude, an accident in the field only needs to happen once, for it to be life changing, due to a field accident, I had a beloved horse die having his forehead scratched during a colic attack, I will never forget the desperation I felt watching this horse keep going down in his box, I even asked the vet, at what point will you worry, even the vet was pleading with the horse to stay down and rest, easing his injured leg from trying to rise, I worked 12hr shifts at the time and got up at 4 30am to check the horses before work my neighbor checked them through the day till I got home at 8pm
		
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No such attitude from me...

I too have sat with a pony while he died in my arms...I found him having a seizure in my paddock at home. It took him over half an hour to die his horrid death and it haunts me. Those ponies get seen multiple times a day but that was my first trip across the garden to see them. In the 10 yrs I've lived there, that was my first incident .

I know what can happen and I minimise the risk in the way mine are kept....


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## _HP_ (18 April 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			Oh well you may aswell leave yours all week then. They clearly are completely exempt from EVER becoming ill or injured. Absolutely idiotic attitude to keeping horses.
		
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Don't be silly now...what an absolutely idiotic response


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## Tiddlypom (18 April 2014)

_HP_ said:



			Maybe your management is wrong if your horses love to hurt themselves 
Mine don't ...and I've never had one that does.
		
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Smugness is a very unattractive trait. I hope that you do not find out the hard way that horses can injure themselves, or get sick, despite meticulous care.

I have just seen your more recent and still smug post. Many of us take every precaution with feed, fencing, turnout companions etc yet **** still happens.

Mine are at home and out 24/7 with idyllic facilities. I can see two of them grazing now, without moving from my chair. Am I complacent that nothing untoward can happen to them? Not on your life!


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## dogatemysalad (18 April 2014)

Goldenstar said:



			This is exactly the point.
If the owner or someone whose roll it is to check the horse sees the horse twice daily it's a minimum backstop .
If a horse says starts with colic on a livery yard someone is likely to notice but if a horse has say a puncture wound in a joint twenty three hours later the horse is probably a goner in truth after 11 you would be in trouble .
People out and about on the yard might not notice something like that without being uncaring.
A horses turned out in a field rented by the owner where other people are not about could be dead of colic in 23 hours an unacceptable time to suffer in my book.
Twice a day hands over them rugs off is a minimum in my book but it does not need to be the owner .
		
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That'll be why I pulled a someone's horse with a puncture wound out of the field, flushed it, called owner, who called the vet and horse was treated 45 minutes later.
Or why, another livery brought in a horse with a sliced fetlock and gave immediate first aid, called owner, called vet. Sorted. 

My tip would be, always keep your horses in a well run place where responsible and experienced people are around.


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## Polos Mum (18 April 2014)

Holidays_are_coming said:



			This is my point if the horse is showing obvious signs I would never leave it but if on a glance it looks fine and is the other side of the field I very rarely have time to go over and check.  My horse is my responsibility not every person who can't be bothered to get out of bed (the case at my yard).
		
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Not read all the replies but one evening my OH got mine all in (as per usual when I'm at work), I wanted to pop out for a bit of chill out time and he mentoned off the cuff that Dandy was being a bit odd, I went in and he was stood with his head in the corner looking grim, looked over him and had to use head torch to find tiny puncher wound on his hock - I went straight back to house and called the vet (only time I've done that in 7 years - I'm not one for paying vets fees) 

4 hours later he'd been referred and taken to horspital for emergancy joint flush - it was touch and go but he made a full recovery due to quick response no infection got into the bone. 

OH has reasonable basic horsey knowledge (easily as much as neighbor stable DIYer) and had caught and led the horse in - and still not spotted the seriousness of the situation. 

I think long term owners who know their horses can quickly see how they are feeling but I wouldn't expect all the others on a yard to know how my horse usually looks or behaves.


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## Nannon (18 April 2014)

I check mine twice a day, if I have a day off work I'm at the yard pretty much all day! The yard owner lives on site too - however one shift a week I don't finish work til 10pm and she doesn't want people on the yard that late at night so I can only sort them in the morning, which I feel really bad about every time!


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## kassieg (18 April 2014)

She's on part livery so I only ever go up once. Yard owner is always out on the yard so if she injured herself the longest it would be before it was found would be about 30 mins 

makes me feel so much safer !


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## RunToEarth (18 April 2014)

dogatemysalad said:



			That'll be why I pulled a someone's horse with a puncture wound out of the field, flushed it, called owner, who called the vet and horse was treated 45 minutes later.
Or why, another livery brought in a horse with a sliced fetlock and gave immediate first aid, called owner, called vet. Sorted. 

My tip would be, always keep your horses in a well run place where responsible and experienced people are around.
		
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Unfortunately, it appears common sense is not so common anymore. Ours are at home but when I had one on livery at uni in a big, well run yard, there were a lot of liveries, and some of them were clueless. I shared a field with a genuine idiot, I spent a lot of my time treating her horse for mud graver, catching it and re rugging it because the straps hadn't been done up properly, untangling it from branches when she hadn't put fly masks on properly - the list goes on. Not only was I checking my own at least twice a day, but by the end of the term I felt like I was responsible for her horse, either because she couldn't be bothered to get out of bed or because she didn't realise that horses take up fractionally more time than a hamster. 

The yard you are on sounds lovely DAMS, and between me and OHs mum we have a very similar system - but I do think it some cases it is a bit like a pixelated image - the more people you entrust the higher the risk, and I like to see my horses.


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## poiuytrewq (18 April 2014)

Always, often more. I drive past the entrance to my lane often so will often stick my head in and make sure they are all standing and ok. I once looked over the fence at my horse and couldnt really see him properly (years ago) but saw he was there and looked ok- came back later to find him still in the same spot with a fractured leg. Felt awful and now check properly.


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## _HP_ (18 April 2014)

Tiddlypom said:



			Smugness is a very unattractive trait. I hope that you do not find out the hard way that horses can injure themselves, or get sick, despite meticulous care.

I have just seen your more recent and still smug post. Many of us take every precaution with feed, fencing, turnout companions etc yet **** still happens.

Mine are at home and out 24/7 with idyllic facilities. I can see two of them grazing now, without moving from my chair. Am I complacent that nothing untoward can happen to them? Not on your life!
		
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Smug?... Not at all..just replying with a similar tone hence 'sticking my tongue out 'smiley 

My horse and pony share a 5 acre field with some sheep. They are safe, secure,healthy and relaxed. In the 15 yrs I've owned them (and others) I've not experienced any problems that would be affected by how often I go down . If I feel more checks are required I'll do them. I have helped and been up there for hours with other peoples horses for various reasons ie colic and am the first to help in a crisis and am well aware of what can happen. It's a risk every time we walk away and leave our animals...I minimised the risks as much as I can and sleep well


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## Moomin1 (18 April 2014)

_HP_ said:



			Don't be silly now...what an absolutely idiotic response 

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I despair at people with attitudes like yours. Your poor horses.


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## skint1 (18 April 2014)

I do mine at least twice a day, they live out during spring and summer but  I am actually handling them both times. If I am not there I have friends at the yard who will do mine (I do theirs too)  

I guess there are about 30 horses on the yard with about the same number of owners/sharers etc, most of the longer term residents are knowledgeable and vigilant and as we are all up at slightly different times we do "cast an eye"  and will deal with anything amiss. 

My boy had a field mate for a short time who was on loan to a really awful woman didn't even come up once a day. The horse did suffer for it until we cottoned on to the situation and plugged the gap, more for the sake of the horse than anything


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## _HP_ (18 April 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			I despair at people with attitudes like yours. Your poor horses.
		
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 Seriously now..stop!
My horses are absolutely fine.


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## Fides (18 April 2014)

Here's a thought for those that only check on their horses once a day and rely on the 'kindness' of other liveries to make sure they are OK the rest of the day - how many threads to we see where someone is despairing because another livery is taking advantage. Livery only bothers to roll up once a day and rlies on other liveries to put on rugs if it teems down, take rugs off if the horse is sweating. If someone only visits once a day in winter - does that mean they wear the same rug for 24 hours regardless of the weather conditions?

I would like to add I am not talking about the people where the YO checks or another livery checks on a like-for-like basis (ie you do mornings they do evenings etc) but those who genuinely think that it is acceptable for another livery to swap rugs if it is needed. When this happens every day (as it seems it does from some of the responses) these are the liveries who are seen as taking advantage of others' kindness. Why should someone else (who already has their own horse to do twice a day mind) have to do your horse every day just because you can't/won't. That is taking liberties in my mind...


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## dogatemysalad (18 April 2014)

RunToEarth said:



			Unfortunately, it appears common sense is not so common anymore. Ours are at home but when I had one on livery at uni in a big, well run yard, there were a lot of liveries, and some of them were clueless. I shared a field with a genuine idiot, I spent a lot of my time treating her horse for mud graver, catching it and re rugging it because the straps hadn't been done up properly, untangling it from branches when she hadn't put fly masks on properly - the list goes on. Not only was I checking my own at least twice a day, but by the end of the term I felt like I was responsible for her horse, either because she couldn't be bothered to get out of bed or because she didn't realise that horses take up fractionally more time than a hamster. 

The yard you are on sounds lovely DAMS, and between me and OHs mum we have a very similar system - but I do think it some cases it is a bit like a pixelated image - the more people you entrust the higher the risk, and I like to see my horses.
		
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Yes, idiots are a problem.  When I moved house, I found what seemed like a great yard with a knowledgeable YO. Who was the worst owner who never checked the horse (DIY) from one week to the next ? A vet. 

It was an indication of how lax the management was. I moved very quickly. I need to know that my horses are on a well run yard with a YO who will insist on high standards from everyone. I do actually go to the yard as often as needed. Mostly, it is twice, sometimes its 3 or 4 times but equally, if there is no pressing need, then, it's once because I know they are in an environment where liveries and staff know what they're doing. 
 My yard is fab and I'm so appreciative of my YO's dedication that I make sure they're never taken for granted.


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## Goldenstar (18 April 2014)

Tiddlypom said:



			Smugness is a very unattractive trait. I hope that you do not find out the hard way that horses can injure themselves, or get sick, despite meticulous care.

I have just seen your more recent and still smug post. Many of us take every precaution with feed, fencing, turnout companions etc yet **** still happens.

Mine are at home and out 24/7 with idyllic facilities. I can see two of them grazing now, without moving from my chair. Am I complacent that nothing untoward can happen to them? Not on your life!
		
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Smug people get desmugged at some point horses are good at that.


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## Shutterbug (18 April 2014)

I know someone who checks her horses once a week.  I dont think that is acceptable at all. 

I really do not see the big issue with checking once a day - most people on my yard are only at the yard once a day - Im one of the few who does twice daily checking but I dont always drag them in and give them a once over - sometimes I just stand at the field gate and watch them play and eat and be horses.


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## Mrs B (18 April 2014)

Shutterbug said:



			I really do not see the big issue with checking once a day - most people on my yard are only at the yard once a day - Im one of the few who does twice daily checking but ...
		
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Eight years ago, I went up to the yard one fine August morning to check my boys in their field. I was half an hour later than normal (due to it being Mr B's 50th) so I didn't get there until about 8. I'd seen him the evening before and he was fine and happy.

There in the gateway was my Mum's pony with fatal colic. He was 29 and had never had it all his life, but the vet thinks he'd had a growth on his intestine that had finally got top heavy and caused the gut to twist.

The wonderful, generous little guy was in agony and had been for a while. He had large (and I mean 6 inches across), raw bleeding patches on his neck, elbows and sides where he'd tried to relieve the pain by rolling and rubbing on the ground. He was exhausted, had green gunge coming from his nose, was coated in sweat and his heart and pulse so fast I thought he'd go at any moment.

He saw me and tried to call and stand, but couldn't. The vet came asap, gave him a massive pain killer so that his last few minutes might be a respite from the torment. He sat on his chest, then managed to rise and put his head against me. I stroked him, told him I loved him and he'd been the best pony in the world, then the vet sent him on his way.

I am forever sorry that I couldn't be there to save him from those awful last few hours and no, you can't be with them 24/7. But how much worse if he'd died with no-one there for him. If some other poor livery had found him. Or if no-one else had decided that a morning check on field-kept animals was needed and I'd got there that evening to find his body?

No thanks. That's why the least I do is check twice a day. And no, I don't have a groom. Just an alarm clock (even if it's set to 4am) and the willingness to give up the time it takes to try to be there if I'm needed.


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## SO1 (18 April 2014)

I think it also does depend on what the field is like and the group are.

Colic is rare in field kept horses if they are managed properly, I know it could happen if they went into a new field full of grass and over ate but it tends not to happen so much perhaps because they are moving around more and trickle feeding in a more natural way. 

With regard to serious leg injuries such as broken legs if horses are not competing for food, space or shelter or all hanging around by the gate wanting to come in, living in a mud pit etc then I would think they are less likely to kick each other. Also a lot of field kept horses do not seem to get so excited and gallop about so much as they are out all the time so don't get excited at turn out or catch in times. If you have a group with enough space, food, shelter who get on well then that does reduce the risks of fighting.

I think people know the risks they take and there are risks with both stabled and living out horses and we have to accept that not everyone can do everything perfectly in a perfect world all horses would be able to live out with access to shelter so they can chose when they want to be in and when they would prefer to be out, with like-minded companions and the correct diet.

There are horses that are stuck in stables 24/7 a day for the owners convenience or because the yard does not have winter turnout yes they are seen to twice a day that is still not ideal either.

A lot people who keep their horses on grass livery have community spirit and try and help each other out. However I have shared fields with people who only pop up two or three times a week because they know YO goes down once a day and so do I. I once found a note in my stable from one livery who was in the same field and that said they were going on holiday for two weeks and would I keep on eye on their 3 horses, which was fine but it would have been nice if they had asked me before they had gone away as what happened if I was going away or not available.


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## Shutterbug (18 April 2014)

Mrs B said:



			I am forever sorry that I couldn't be there to save him from those awful last few hours and no, you can't be with them 24/7. But how much worse if he'd died with no-one there for him. If some other poor livery had found him. Or if no-one else had decided that a morning check on field-kept animals was needed and I'd got there that evening to find his body?

No thanks. That's why the least I do is check twice a day. And no, I don't have a groom. Just an alarm clock (even if it's set to 4am) and the willingness to give up the time it takes to try to be there if I'm needed.
		
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Thats so sad to hear - but the honest truth is that could have happened even with a twice or three times daily check - the colic could have struck immediately after checking and horse of an evening and horse could have suffered till morning.  We can only do our best but for the best part, daily checks are fine and we really should not judge and lambast those who choose to check their horses once a day, who provide good care and love their animals just as much you or I love ours.  The people we should be mad at are the people who throw their horses in a field and disappear for 2 weeks at the first sign of sunshine, or those who dont provide even the basic of care to their animals - there is much much worse that a horse owner can do or fail to do beyond checking on their animals just once a day and I do think a little perspective is needed. Which is why I mentioned the girl I know who only checkes her horses once a week all year round.   Some of the posts on here would have onwers hung for failing to be at the yard every 5 mins to check their horses and I think that its incredibly unfair of people to bash others for only being able to get to the yard once a day - which in my experience is the norm for most owners.


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## LadyGascoyne (18 April 2014)

An interesting one, really. I would check mine 2-3 times a day but now I work 16-18 hours per day. So that entails leaving at 4am and getting home around midnight. 

Now, would mine (who live in large, beautiful fields with fabulous facilities and lots of friends) be better off being moved to a livery yard? Or sold? Or would they be better off staying in their horsey paradise and being checked less?

Btw- It's an academic question; my nightmare job is 100's of miles away and I only get to check them twice a month- at the most. I employ a live-in ex-jockey, who rides, checks, cleans and absolutely adores them. But I am very lucky to be able to do so.


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## Mrs B (18 April 2014)

Shutterbug said:



			but for the* best part, daily checks are fine* and we really should not judge and lambast those who choose to check their horses once a day.
		
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I'm afraid I can't agree. I don't believe daily checks are fine in the slightest, even if you take my case out of the equation. If once a day is all someone can manage/be arsed to do and there's no one else to do another proper check within 24 hours, then don't have them on diy. Or at all.


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## DD265 (18 April 2014)

I have my boy on full livery so he gets checked for me. In fact one of the reasons I'm adamant about staying on full livery is that my lad has Wobblers and is getting on in age, so I like knowing that YO is constantly around keeping an eye out. If I did move back to DIY I'd certainly be up twice a day (or arrange for/with somebody else so he was checked twice a day) but I'd be paranoid about those hours in the middle!


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## Shutterbug (18 April 2014)

Mrs B said:



			I'm afraid I can't agree. I don't believe daily checks are fine in the slightest, even if you take my case out of the equation. If once a day is all someone can manage/be arsed to do and there's no one else to do another proper check within 24 hours, then don't have them on diy. Or at all.
		
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Thats your opinion and you are entitled to express it but I do think you are being incredibly unfair on other people by brandishing them unfit owners because they dont do as you do and suggesting they cant be arsed checking their horse more than once.  I respectfully disagree with you, even though I choose to be at the yard twice a day myself.  Most horse owners  I know, who are for all intents and purposes good owners who care for their animals, and provide for them well, are only at the yard once a day. It is unfair to say someone should not own a horse because they dont fit your ideals of what horse ownership is about. Even with twice daily checks your horse is unsupervised for up to 12 hours at a time. In an ideal world we would all keep our horses at home and be seconds away from them in the event of something happening. Unfortunately, we cant all do that so we do our best.

We shall have to agree to disagree on this one I'm afraid


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## SO1 (18 April 2014)

I have to say I agree with this except in situations where horses are kept in very remote areas and there is only person going to the field per day once a day. I am thinking from this thread that the people who only go once a day have horses on yards where there are lots of people around going back and forward from the field who would notice if something was seriously wrong rather than people who are more isolated renting a field in the middle of nowhere.

For example when we had the storms YO was able to go straight down in the morning to check if trees were down before any of the liveries had arrived. I was a bit worried about my own safety in the storms as we have to walk through a wooded area to get to the fields and it was so windy I thought I was at risk of being hit by falling trees and then no-one would find me until the next morning. Sometimes some of the other liveries worry about me going down to the fields in the dark in the winter in case I get injured and then would not get found till the next day. Once I went home and forgot to shut my stable door {pony lives out so did not matter} one of the other liveries noticed my stable door was open & it was late and she had not seem me, and thought I might have had an accident so got YO to call me to make sure I was ok, but then that is sort of yard I am on, we try and look out for each other.



Shutterbug said:



			Thats your opinion and you are entitled to express it but I do think you are being incredibly unfair on other people by brandishing them unfit owners because they dont do as you do and suggesting they cant be arsed checking their horse more than once.  I respectfully disagree with you, even though I choose to be at the yard twice a day myself.  Most horse owners  I know, who are for all intents and purposes good owners who care for their animals, and provide for them well, are only at the yard once a day. It is unfair to say someone should not own a horse because they dont fit your ideals of what horse ownership is about. Even with twice daily checks your horse is unsupervised for up to 12 hours at a time. In an ideal world we would all keep our horses at home and be seconds away from them in the event of something happening. Unfortunately, we cant all do that so we do our best.

We shall have to agree to disagree on this one I'm afraid 

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## _HP_ (18 April 2014)

Mrs B said:



			I'm afraid I can't agree. I don't believe daily checks are fine in the slightest, even if you take my case out of the equation. If once a day is all someone can manage/be arsed to do and there's no one else to do another proper check within 24 hours, then don't have them on diy. Or at all.
		
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The beauty of being a big grown up person is that I can decide what's best for my horses and whether or not I should have them and on what regime 
Honestly, what a bunch of judgemental people some of you are!


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## Moomin1 (18 April 2014)

_HP_ said:



			The beauty of being a big grown up person is that I can decide what's best for my horses and whether or not I should have them and on what regime 
Honestly, what a bunch of judgemental people some of you are!
		
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Haha I've heard many people say that. Some which have neglected their horses


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## Copperpot (18 April 2014)

If I'm working twice a day but the YO also checks them when she walks her dogs. On my days off I'm up there 3 maybe 4 times doing stuff.


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## RockinRudolph (18 April 2014)

Twice a day. There are liveries coming and going at various times of the day, and we are on a farm so the farmer is usually always there - he also does early morning and late night checks. One of the liveries lives just next to the yard too, so it definitely feels like there are several eyes kept on them for most of the time!


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## windand rain (19 April 2014)

I also wonder sometimes at the quality of the checks I only go to mine once a day but I am there for hours each one is checked from top to bottom come for a fuss are groomed and ridden or just petted. They are fed, hay and water checked they are in a small well established herd they have been in all their lives the oldest addition being a weanling so they were either born in the herd or joined it a very early age. They only chase about if we swap fields around are settled all the time and are generally speaking very well. When I was on a yard many moons ago the owners would arrive put a headcollar on their horse change its rug while chatting to a mate over the door without really seeing their horse or use turnouts 24/7 so didnt look under the rug chuck said horse into a field to do a mad bucking and kicking session quickly muck out and then without even looking at their horse disappear to work in the evenning they would make a coffee get horse in and leave to chat with friends ok they had been there for two visits but most had never even laid a hand on the horse. If they rode they unrugged and rode barely noticed if the horse they were riding was sound and put it back into a stable hot, wet and sweaty after all rugs are breathable now
I know very well which regime my ponies would chose.
So guess what I will continue to adore my ponies providing them with every thing they need and let them be horses but as they are some miles from my house they will still only get one visit ok others will see them during the day but they wont have an official check until I return 
Maybe I am a bad owner maybe I have been extremely lucky but in over 40 years I have only ever had one with laminitis when he was let into the rested grass by well meaning walkers late one evening and the same pony had colic it was my first owner experience of it last week he was fine before the vet got to me an hour and a half later but I still had him checked over. Reading the Horse and hound vet mag I would guess a lot of colic cases go unnoticed even when the horses are checked more than once as they make spontaneous recoveries. Like everything you have to weigh up the risks I hate stables I would never confine mine to a stable for more than 8 hours unless it was on medical grounds Most of the liveries I have been on horses have been left for hours without food as they eat their hay in  a short space of time and then have nothing to eat. there are far worse things that can happen to a horse in a stable than can happen in a field. I have told the story of the horse who pulled his foot off in a stable before so wont repeat myself bet his owner wished he had lived out 24/7


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## julie111 (19 April 2014)

windand rain said:



			I also wonder sometimes at the quality of the checks I only go to mine once a day but I am there for hours each one is checked from top to bottom come for a fuss are groomed and ridden or just petted. They are fed, hay and water checked they are in a small well established herd they have been in all their lives the oldest addition being a weanling so they were either born in the herd or joined it a very early age. They only chase about if we swap fields around are settled all the time and are generally speaking very well. When I was on a yard many moons ago the owners would arrive put a headcollar on their horse change its rug while chatting to a mate over the door without really seeing their horse or use turnouts 24/7 so didnt look under the rug chuck said horse into a field to do a mad bucking and kicking session quickly muck out and then without even looking at their horse disappear to work in the evenning they would make a coffee get horse in and leave to chat with friends ok they had been there for two visits but most had never even laid a hand on the horse. If they rode they unrugged and rode barely noticed if the horse they were riding was sound and put it back into a stable hot, wet and sweaty after all rugs are breathable now
I know very well which regime my ponies would chose.
So guess what I will continue to adore my ponies providing them with every thing they need and let them be horses but as they are some miles from my house they will still only get one visit ok others will see them during the day but they wont have an official check until I return 
Maybe I am a bad owner maybe I have been extremely lucky but in over 40 years I have only ever had one with laminitis when he was let into the rested grass by well meaning walkers late one evening and the same pony had colic it was my first owner experience of it last week he was fine before the vet got to me an hour and a half later but I still had him checked over. Reading the Horse and hound vet mag I would guess a lot of colic cases go unnoticed even when the horses are checked more than once as they make spontaneous recoveries. Like everything you have to weigh up the risks I hate stables I would never confine mine to a stable for more than 8 hours unless it was on medical grounds Most of the liveries I have been on horses have been left for hours without food as they eat their hay in  a short space of time and then have nothing to eat. there are far worse things that can happen to a horse in a stable than can happen in a field. I have told the story of the horse who pulled his foot off in a stable before so wont repeat myself bet his owner wished he had lived out 24/7
		
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I totally agree with you. I have owned horses for over 40 years, the majority of that time horses have lived out 24/7 in established herds, we have never had a problem. We go down once a day and spend at least three hours with them, they are thoroughly checked over and I am sure they are are very happy. 
Definitely far more problems arise from horses being couped up for hours in a stable then being turned out for a few hours to hoon about. To say those of us that see our horses once a day are neglecting them is a ridiculous statement!


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## _HP_ (19 April 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			Haha I've heard many people say that. Some which have neglected their horses
		
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Maybe you have .....

I've come across many that seem to devote their lives to their horses but are so ignorant to their needs and their body language that they wouldn't notice their horse was unhappy if it smacked them in the face ......and?


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## Meowy Catkin (19 April 2014)

I think Moomin works in animal welfare, so I wouldn't dismiss their comments so flippantly.


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## julie111 (19 April 2014)

Faracat said:



			I think Moomin works in animal welfare, so I wouldn't dismiss their comments so flippantly.
		
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That doesn't mean much, some of these welfare organisations are totally useless! 
It is very offensive to say people who see their horses once a day are neglecting them or shouldn't own them, absolutely ridiculous!!


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## dogatemysalad (19 April 2014)

If the horse welfare charities decided to prosecute every horse owner that only checked their horses at grass, once a day, the back log of cases would keep them occupied for many years.

How ridiculous. 

I also disagree with Moomin's opinion on clipping horses.
 Though I often agree with her on various topics, her opinions are just opinions, and not necessarily fact.  Just like the rest of us.


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## YorksG (19 April 2014)

One of the things that always causes me concern on these threads is the attitude that 'some' people who do x y or z don't do it right, so I don't do that, but what I do is  better than that, even if some people feel it is insufficient. Surely we should all aim for the maximum benefit for the animals we are responsible for?


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## dogatemysalad (19 April 2014)

Shutterbug said:



			Thats so sad to hear - but the honest truth is that could have happened even with a twice or three times daily check - the colic could have struck immediately after checking and horse of an evening and horse could have suffered till morning.  We can only do our best but for the best part, daily checks are fine and we really should not judge and lambast those who choose to check their horses once a day, who provide good care and love their animals just as much you or I love ours.  The people we should be mad at are the people who throw their horses in a field and disappear for 2 weeks at the first sign of sunshine, or those who dont provide even the basic of care to their animals - there is much much worse that a horse owner can do or fail to do beyond checking on their animals just once a day and I do think a little perspective is needed. Which is why I mentioned the girl I know who only checkes her horses once a week all year round.   Some of the posts on here would have onwers hung for failing to be at the yard every 5 mins to check their horses and I think that its incredibly unfair of people to bash others for only being able to get to the yard once a day - which in my experience is the norm for most owners.
		
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Most sensible and balanced post of the thread.


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## Toffee44 (19 April 2014)

I love HHO.


I go up once a day now out.

YO and YM very good at being around so if anything happened it would be picked up. 

My old pony, Toffee, ripped her nostril open between 1830-1900  I left the field at 1830.... Got a phone call at 1900 from a friend to say her nose was hanging open. So daily checks or twice daily checks make no different in my view.


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## Meowy Catkin (19 April 2014)

Moomin never said that people would be prosecuted for only checking their animals once a day. However if an animal was hurt and was left suffering for 23 hours, that length of time between checks could go against the owner.


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## YorksG (19 April 2014)

Faracat said:



			Moomin never said that people would be prosecuted for only checking their animals once a day. However if an animal was hurt and was left suffering for 23 hours, that length of time between checks could go against the owner.
		
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And in my opinion, so it should.


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## Tiddlypom (19 April 2014)

This thread has been both jaw dropping and revealing, and not in a good way.

I am gob smacked at how many posters have come on here, bullishly defending their once daily checks as being acceptable standard practice.


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## MotherOfChickens (19 April 2014)

Toffee44 said:



			I love HHO.


I go up once a day now out.

YO and YM very good at being around so if anything happened it would be picked up. 

My old pony, Toffee, ripped her nostril open between 1830-1900  I left the field at 1830.... Got a phone call at 1900 from a friend to say her nose was hanging open. So daily checks or twice daily checks make no different in my view.
		
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But if your horse did have an injury/come down with grass sickness/atypical myopathy an hour after you saw them- surely then seeing them 10 hours later is preferable to 23 hours later - when every hour both in terms of the horses suffering and it's prognosis is time dependant.? Of course anything can happen at any time but checking more than once a day can minimise the consequences of certain injuries and illnesses.


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## Ponycarrots (19 April 2014)

I don't think there's much excuse not to check the horse twice a day. I work 8 hours a day and I don't get home til after dark in winter and don't have lights where I keep my horses and it still go down twice a day; if I'm working. If I'm off work it's at usually more than 3 times. Why have horses if you can't be arsed to even check them or spend time with them? For one thing they need feeding don't they?!


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## vikkiandmonica (19 April 2014)

Ponycarrots said:



			I don't think there's much excuse not to check the horse twice a day. I work 8 hours a day and I don't get home til after dark in winter and don't have lights where I keep my horses and it still go down twice a day; if I'm working. If I'm off work it's at usually more than 3 times. Why have horses if you can't be arsed to even check them or spend time with them? For one thing they need feeding don't they?!
		
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The question was about visiting them when they're out 24/7 in summer, so feeding/watering doesn't really come into account, it's more in the case of injuries I think. Surely though, if it's pitch black when you do one of your visits, you couldn't really notice injuries/illness anyway?


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## windand rain (19 April 2014)

Well we will have to agree to differ my horses are not left for 23 hours I visit once a day today I was there for over 4 and a half hours I am often there longer every one was caught and felt over to make sure they were no hidden injuries.  I know for a fact that horses suffer far more from only seeing a brief glimpse of the sky as they leave an american barn or stable to work in an indoor school or walk to a horsewalker for twenty minutes of interminable boredom. Yet is is considered ok to do this to what is essentially a domesticated wild animal if it is seen more than once a day it is a despicable way to treat a horse as is 24 hour stabling or individual penning my opinion and you wont change my mind even two consecutive days in a stable are very wrong never mind months of it so if anyone needs prosecuting it is those owners who condone this by owning horses who cannot be horses who do not have the freedoms according to the welfare rules and are brainwashed into accepting it or expecting it
Yes I do have very strong views on it and every horse I have ever owned has spent at least 16 hours out of a stable every day of its life unless it had to be confined for medical reasons even in this they were left for 16 hours a day roughly between checks When the pony was on box rest she was fed 6 times a day as she wasn't allowed to move and her only joy was feeds and a bit of  fuss she was fed every 4 hours like a new baby day and night. The thread on livery yards also surprised me with the livery yards closing at 6 and not opening again until 9 in the morning so 15 hours without checks is ok 16-20  isnt 
what a load of codswallop


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## Ponycarrots (19 April 2014)

Yeah cos I bring a torch? Lol


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## Ponycarrots (19 April 2014)

vikkiandmonica said:



			The question was about visiting them when they're out 24/7 in summer, so feeding/watering doesn't really come into account, it's more in the case of injuries I think. Surely though, if it's pitch black when you do one of your visits, you couldn't really notice injuries/illness anyway?
		
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Obviously I bring a torch  lol


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## YorksG (19 April 2014)

windand rain said:



			Well we will have to agree to differ my horses are not left for 23 hours I visit once a day today I was there for over 4 and a half hours I am often there longer every one was caught and felt over to make sure they were no hidden injuries.  I know for a fact that horses suffer far more from only seeing a brief glimpse of the sky as they leave an american barn or stable to work in an indoor school or walk to a horsewalker for twenty minutes of interminable boredom. Yet is is considered ok to do this to what is essentially a domesticated wild animal if it is seen more than once a day it is a despicable way to treat a horse as is 24 hour stabling or individual penning my opinion and you wont change my mind even two consecutive days in a stable are very wrong never mind months of it so if anyone needs prosecuting it is those owners who condone this by owning horses who cannot be horses who do not have the freedoms according to the welfare rules and are brainwashed into accepting it or expecting it
Yes I do have very strong views on it and every horse I have ever owned has spent at least 16 hours out of a stable every day of its life unless it had to be confined for medical reasons even in this they were left for 16 hours a day roughly between checks When the pony was on box rest she was fed 6 times a day as she wasn't allowed to move and her only joy was feeds and a bit of  fuss she was fed every 4 hours like a new baby day and night. The thread on livery yards also surprised me with the livery yards closing at 6 and not opening again until 9 in the morning so 15 hours without checks is ok 16-20  isnt 
what a load of codswallop
		
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Two wrongs never make a right! I did try and point this out earlier on the thread, but was perhaps too opaque. 20 hours without checks, either in or out is too long IMO, but if it makes you feel ok about it because some horses are kept in worse situations than yours, then so be it.


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## windand rain (19 April 2014)

There are certainly very few that are cared for better


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## Meowy Catkin (19 April 2014)

MotherOfChickens said:



			But if your horse did have an injury/come down with grass sickness/atypical myopathy an hour after you saw them- surely then seeing them 10 hours later is preferable to 23 hours later - when every hour both in terms of the horses suffering and it's prognosis is time dependant.? Of course anything can happen at any time but checking more than once a day can minimise the consequences of certain injuries and illnesses.
		
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I fully agree MOC. If I couldn't see my horses twice a day, I'd make a proper arrangement so that they were checked when I couldn't get there.


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## Montyforever (19 April 2014)

I only go up once a day, but she's on assisted so YO does her the other end of the day  
They are checked early (6ish) then again around 7/8, then got in any time between 3-7 and there's usually someone on the yard for most of the day too. 
We all check each others horses, bonus of being on a small yard is we all know what's normal for each others horses so i know the minute she's even acting slightly out of character


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## julie111 (19 April 2014)

Ponycarrots said:



			I don't think there's much excuse not to check the horse twice a day. I work 8 hours a day and I don't get home til after dark in winter and don't have lights where I keep my horses and it still go down twice a day; if I'm working. If I'm off work it's at usually more than 3 times. Why have horses if you can't be arsed to even check them or spend time with them? For one thing they need feeding don't they?!
		
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Grow up! Going once a day for a few hours means you are checking them and feeding them!


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## Sugar_and_Spice (19 April 2014)

I don't see this thread from the same point of view as others seem to, ie the question of once a day versus twice a day checks. I see another question which is what's the alternative if once a day checks were theoretically banned? Most horses seem to me to have an ok-to-brilliant (depending on who their owner is) standard of care even if only checked once daily. If the attitude of 'if you can't manage to check twice daily either yourself or a designated person then you shouldn't have a horse' became law, that would be a lot of people giving up horses. Where would they all go? To slaughter or PTS I suspect, since the UK is already over run with horses nobody wants. I don't think the majority of these horses with their ok-to-brilliant lives and their once daily checks would prefer to be dead.

To answer the title question I'm currently a twice daily checker but have in the past been a once daily person and its likely I will be again at some point in the future.


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## Goldenstar (19 April 2014)

```
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It's not relevant whether the horse is in or out once checked a day is not enough .
It's also got nothing to do with what's banned or not banned I have little interest in that sort of thing now it's do with me and what I think is acceptable and judgemental or not I don't find once a day acceptable .
But as I said before it does not need to be the owner .


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## MerrySherryRider (19 April 2014)

The twice-a-day-or-else-you-shouldn't-have-them mob don't seem to take into account several factors. 

If I kept my horses in a private field without others owners and staff around, a couple of 5/10 minute daily checks would not be sufficient. 

The owner who arrives once a day, spends several hours with her horses and keeps them on a well run yard with on site YO is more likely to be able to point out every bump on their horse than the twice a day owner who waves at her horses across the field. 

This thread is so full of rubbish. Quality of total care, environment, hands on interaction and involvement is better than a couple of quick checks from the gate.   

Perhaps some of the bullish twice a day people should change their livery yard and move to a yard with experienced staff and responsible fellow liveries, then they wouldn't be so quick to condemn other people's management.


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## julie111 (19 April 2014)

MerrySherryRider said:



			The twice-a-day-or-else-you-shouldn't-have-them mob don't seem to take into account several factors. 

If I kept my horses in a private field without others owners and staff around, a couple of 5/10 minute daily checks would not be sufficient. 

The owner who arrives once a day, spends several hours with her horses and keeps them on a well run yard with on site YO is more likely to be able to point out every bump on their horse than the twice a day owner who waves at her horses across the field. 

This thread is so full of rubbish. Quality of total care, environment, hands on interaction and involvement is better than a couple of quick checks from the gate.   

Perhaps some of the bullish twice a day people should change their livery yard and move to a yard with experienced staff and responsible fellow liveries, then they wouldn't be so quick to condemn other people's management.
		
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^^^this^^^


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## _HP_ (19 April 2014)

Faracat said:



			I think Moomin works in animal welfare, so I wouldn't dismiss their comments so flippantly.
		
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Respect where it's due....

however, that does not give her the right to assume that my horses are neglected because I don't follow her ideal.

And I am replying like for like btw...I hope she's not so quick to judge when she's working!


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## _HP_ (19 April 2014)

julie111 said:



			That doesn't mean much, some of these welfare organisations are totally useless! 
It is very offensive to say people who see their horses once a day are neglecting them or shouldn't own them, absolutely ridiculous!!
		
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Agree


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## Serephin (19 April 2014)

MerrySherryRider said:



			The twice-a-day-or-else-you-shouldn't-have-them mob don't seem to take into account several factors. 

If I kept my horses in a private field without others owners and staff around, a couple of 5/10 minute daily checks would not be sufficient. 

The owner who arrives once a day, spends several hours with her horses and keeps them on a well run yard with on site YO is more likely to be able to point out every bump on their horse than the twice a day owner who waves at her horses across the field. 

This thread is so full of rubbish. Quality of total care, environment, hands on interaction and involvement is better than a couple of quick checks from the gate.   

Perhaps some of the bullish twice a day people should change their livery yard and move to a yard with experienced staff and responsible fellow liveries, then they wouldn't be so quick to condemn other people's management.
		
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Absolutely! My yard is very good, we all know each others horses and get on well together. Our YO keeps an eye on things. My field neighbour casts her eye over my horse and vice versa. In fact, we all watch out for others's horses, its just the way it is and its because we love horses! And we are a fairly big yard. I go up once a day. And I will continue to do so as he is out 24/7. In the winter he is turned out for me, so I still go up once a day. My horse is happy and healthy.

And as far as I am concerned its no one else business how I manage my horse. So you can blow it out of your judgemental rear ends!! &#128539;


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## dogatemysalad (19 April 2014)

MerrySherryRider said:



			The twice-a-day-or-else-you-shouldn't-have-them mob don't seem to take into account several factors. 

If I kept my horses in a private field without others owners and staff around, a couple of 5/10 minute daily checks would not be sufficient. 

The owner who arrives once a day, spends several hours with her horses and keeps them on a well run yard with on site YO is more likely to be able to point out every bump on their horse than the twice a day owner who waves at her horses across the field. 

This thread is so full of rubbish. Quality of total care, environment, hands on interaction and involvement is better than a couple of quick checks from the gate.   

Perhaps some of the bullish twice a day people should change their livery yard and move to a yard with experienced staff and responsible fellow liveries, then they wouldn't be so quick to condemn other people's management.
		
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A little more direct than I've have said, , but yes. Very much agree.


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## _HP_ (19 April 2014)

Sugar_and_Spice said:



			I don't see this thread from the same point of view as others seem to, ie the question of once a day versus twice a day checks. I see another question which is what's the alternative if once a day checks were theoretically banned? Most horses seem to me to have an ok-to-brilliant (depending on who their owner is) standard of care even if only checked once daily. If the attitude of 'if you can't manage to check twice daily either yourself or a designated person then you shouldn't have a horse' became law, that would be a lot of people giving up horses. Where would they all go? To slaughter or PTS I suspect, since the UK is already over run with horses nobody wants. I don't think the majority of these horses with their ok-to-brilliant lives and their once daily checks would prefer to be dead.

To answer the title question I'm currently a twice daily checker but have in the past been a once daily person and its likely I will be again at some point in the future.
		
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You're assuming that we don't check more than once because we don't care about our horses....
If it became law that all horses needed checking 10 times a day then that's what I would do....but it isn't and I don't because I am confident that my horses are ok as they are.

I wonder if the same could be said about stabled horses....I mean, they are living a very unnatural life...should their owners be seeing to them multiple times a day to make sure they have enough forage, enough stimulation, aren't standing in their own poo and pee for too long, blah, blah, blah...is twice a day enough? Is it neglectful?


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## Mrs B (19 April 2014)

Serephin said:



			And as far as I am concerned its no one else business how I manage my horse. So you can blow it out of your judgemental rear ends!! &#128539; 

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As I have stated many times, my problem is when there is no yard owner, nor designated horse-aware person doing the second check. I also have a problem with fellow DIYers' taking the pi** and assuming someone else will always check their horse and let them know if there's something wrong. As someone pointed out earlier on this thread, this often happens and it is not in any way, shape or form, fair. Most of those who do this kind of 'checking by proxy' I wouldn't trust to look after a dead hamster.

I generally cast an eye over everyone else's horses every time I go up, simply because I love the creatures. If something's wrong I will try to do what I can to help: replace a slipped rug, find a lost grazing muzzle, call the YO or the owner if it's more serious. But I have never expected anyone to do that for me. It would be appreciated, but to me, it's my job to look after my own horse.

It's also interesting to note that most of the more aggressive, defensive posts on here are by the 'once-a-day-is-fine' members.

Touch a nerve, did we?


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## windand rain (19 April 2014)

nope it is the garbage spouted that annoys.
My ponies next week will have two checks the bulk of next week by the girl who rides and by me never a day goes by but I see my horses once per day I am on a course next week so will check at night the rider works from 2 til 10 so she will ride groom and check them in the morning but that is unusual.
Being defensive when attacked by self righteous no it alls is the only way you can defend what you know is right


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## Mrs B (19 April 2014)

windand rain said:



			nope it is the garbage spouted that annoys.
My ponies next week will have two checks the bulk of next week by the girl who rides and by me never a day goes by but I see my horses once per day I am on a course next week so will check at night the rider works from 2 til 10 so she will ride groom and check them in the morning but that is unusual.
Being defensive when attacked by self righteous no it alls is the only way you can defend what you know is right
		
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It would help your argument if you could type in coherent English.


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## MerrySherryRider (19 April 2014)

Some of the more aggressive and downright rude posts have been made by the self righteous twice-a-day-is-the-only-way posters, hence my annoyance. 

As it happens, I usually check mine twice a day when out at grass. Sometimes it's 3 times, and sometimes, I stay all day. But in some circumstances, in my opinion, one trip is perfectly fine.

I absolutely refute the accusation that I 'can't be arsed' or take the p** out of other owners on those days when I make one trip. My whole day fits around my horses. They are my priority every day of the year. Even when I've had to leave without notice to deal with an urgent family emergency, I either make arrangements for the horses or go to extraordinary lengths to do them myself. 

To suggest otherwise is extremely offensive.


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## Mrs B (19 April 2014)

MerrySherryRider said:



			Some of the more aggressive and downright rude posts have been made by the self righteous twice-a-day-is-the-only-way posters, hence my annoyance. 

As it happens, I usually check mine twice a day when out at grass. Sometimes it's 3 times, and sometimes, I stay all day. But in some circumstances, in my opinion, one trip is perfectly fine.

I absolutely refute the accusation that I 'can't be arsed' or take the p** out of other owners on those days when I make one trip. My whole day fits around my horses. They are my priority every day of the year. Even when I've had to leave without notice to deal with an urgent family emergency, I either make arrangements for the horses or go to extraordinary lengths to do them myself. 

To suggest otherwise is extremely offensive.
		
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Good for you, MSR. Good luck with your horses and they with you.


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## MerrySherryRider (19 April 2014)

Mrs B said:



			Good for you, MSR. Good luck with your horses and they with you.
		
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Likewise Mrs B. I happen to know that you're an extremely nice person. Probably nicer than me, tonight.


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## Fides (19 April 2014)

Off out to check my horses - for the 4th time today...


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## windand rain (19 April 2014)

It is apparent that either side of the argument  are unlikely to agree with the other. I do hope that the most important thing in the minds of both is the on going welfare of their horses and any compromises that have to be made are for the benefit of the horse and not the owners convenience. Either way as long as the horses welfare needs are met I would be happy, sadly the freedom to be a horse is the one most ignored and to me is one of the most important.  Along side being fed appropriately having constant clean water, the law states they must have the freedom to behave like a horse and to interact as a herd animal and to have the choice of appropriate shelter and protection from the weather.
Just maybe we should all be more aware of the welfare needs of horses and actually abide by the law


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## Goldenstar (19 April 2014)

MerrySherryRider said:



			The twice-a-day-or-else-you-shouldn't-have-them mob don't seem to take into account several factors. 

If I kept my horses in a private field without others owners and staff around, a couple of 5/10 minute daily checks would not be sufficient. 

The owner who arrives once a day, spends several hours with her horses and keeps them on a well run yard with on site YO is more likely to be able to point out every bump on their horse than the twice a day owner who waves at her horses across the field. 

This thread is so full of rubbish. Quality of total care, environment, hands on interaction and involvement is better than a couple of quick checks from the 
Perhaps some of the bullish twice a day people should change their livery yard and move to a yard with experienced staff and responsible fellow liveries, then they wouldn't be so quick to condemn other people's management.
		
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I don't need to move yards thank you my horses are at my home .
And no one has said as far as I can remember that it has to be the owner but it has IMO to be more than others looking out for each other it has to be twice a day caught rugs off and checked properly .
However I am responsible for my horses , I know and accept that all horses can't have the lifestyle mine have .


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## windand rain (19 April 2014)

Goldenstar said:



			I don't need to move yards thank you my horses are at my home .
And no one has said as far as I can remember that it has to be the owner but it has IMO to be more than others looking out for each other it has to be twice a day caught rugs off and checked properly .
However I am responsible for my horses , I know and accept that all horses can't have the lifestyle mine have .
		
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You would be hard pushed to find many owners who, no matter how many times they visit, would do a full rugs off check, even once a day. People often have different standards and the standard of some of the multiple checks can be pretty low


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## Goldenstar (19 April 2014)

windand rain said:



			You would be hard pushed to find many owners who, no matter how many times they visit, would do a full rugs off check, even once a day. People often have different standards and the standard of some of the multiple checks can be pretty low
		
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But you see that matters little to me I am responsible for my horses not anyone else's .
Thankfully .


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## windand rain (19 April 2014)

I too am very happy with accepting my responsibilities as a pony owner and I try my very best to give them a happy and contented life with the very best of everything they need. So I guess we are singing from a similar hymn sheet. This is why I rent land and mostly keep myself to myself where I can keep things the way I want them without having to follow livery rules


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## MerrySherryRider (19 April 2014)

Goldenstar said:



			I don't need to move yards thank you my horses are at my home .
And no one has said as far as I can remember that it has to be the owner but it has IMO to be more than others looking out for each other it has to be twice a day caught rugs off and checked properly .
However I am responsible for my horses , I know and accept that all horses can't have the lifestyle mine have .
		
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I have chosen not to have mine at home as I'm not in a position to have or want the number of companions and extensive facilities they have at a livery yard, so for me, they have a lifestyle that is perfect for them. 

Once a day checks are fine on particular days. Designated person to 'cover' me is not needed. I just avoid liverying with idiots.


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## dark_prince (19 April 2014)

MerrySherryRider said:



			I'm wondering what sort of yard those who feel they are the only ones who will check their horses are on. 
It can't be one with an excellent YO and a great community of owners who feel responsibility goes beyond their own horses. 
I'd hate to be on a yard like that in case something happened to my two between visits.
		
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This is what I'm thinking. I don't have any formal agreements, or even any verbal that I am aware of, where someone on the yard will officially check my horse. I do however know for certain that I am on a yard that everyone looks out for each other. I know that if I was down checking my horse, I would be the type of person to bring in and call vets and owners should there be a problem with someone elses horse. I also know that my YO is around and pottering the yard and fields and will always be there to help. If a horse is loose whilst everyone is at work or school, she will catch or herd into a field nearby so they are safe - without any agreement. It is just the type of yard I am on.


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## Spring Feather (19 April 2014)

dark_prince said:



			I also know that my YO is around and pottering the yard and fields and will always be there to help. If a horse is loose whilst everyone is at work or school, she will catch or herd into a field nearby so they are safe - without any agreement. It is just the type of yard I am on.
		
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That's the YOs job.  That's why you pay to be on a livery yard.


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## Fides (19 April 2014)

I resent that some of the people that only bother with their horses once a day claim that people that do multiple checks do them badly!

Just done bedtime checks. Nets that were put up at 7 were nearly empty so put more up, stupid boy had kicked his water trug over so refilled that. Poor ****** would have been without food and water for about 10 hours had I not done 4th check today...


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## _HP_ (19 April 2014)

Fides said:



			I resent that some of the people that only bother with their horses once a day claim that people that do multiple checks do them badly!

Just done bedtime checks. Nets that were put up at 7 were nearly empty so put more up, stupid boy had kicked his water trug over so refilled that. Poor ****** would have been without food and water for about 10 hours had I not done 4th check today...
		
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That's the beauty of self filling water troughs and 24/7/365 grazing....no running out of either&#128526;


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## Goldenstar (19 April 2014)

MerrySherryRider said:



			I have chosen not to have mine at home as I'm not in a position to have or want the number of companions and extensive facilities they have at a livery yard, so for me, they have a lifestyle that is perfect for them. 

Once a day checks are fine on particular days. Designated person to 'cover' me is not needed. I just avoid liverying with idiots.
		
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There fine for you that never would be for me .
I would never accept my horses just being' looked 'at in passing .
A check has to be a proper check for me .


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## bouncing_ball (19 April 2014)

Spring Feather said:



			I'm not!  I bet they are terrified to say so on this thread now :biggrin3:

In the defence of Moomin, I do get exactly what she's saying.  I honestly don't know how people can only check their horses twice a day let alone once.  It would give me palpitations if mine went for hours without being checked.
		
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Doesnt it depend how far you live from the yard, and how observed your horses' fields are?

Spring Feather - your horses are at home - checking is easy. If you had to commute to work, and lived 15 minutes drive from the yard - would you really check your horses more than twice a day?

I am on a DIY yard, my horses are checked twice daily, but they are observed (live on a hill) by dog walkers, other liveries, the yard owner, a great many people turn around in the turning point above their field, and there are neighbouring grazing fields on three sides with complete visability into my fields. Everyone helps out. e.g. when fencing came down in another field - horses were rescued, and checked, and moved fields before owners came down.


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## Spring Feather (19 April 2014)

bouncing_ball said:



			Spring Feather - your horses are at home - checking is easy. If you had to commute to work, and lived 15 minutes drive from the yard - would you really check your horses more than twice a day?
		
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I just wouldn't put my horses in a position where they weren't being checked numerous times every single day I'm afraid.  If I did not have horses at home then I would keep them at a livery yard WITH an onsite 24/7 experienced yard owner.  However, even then, if I only had to drive 15 minutes from my home to see my horses then yes of course I would see them a minimum of twice a day, fully supervised yard or not.


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## MerrySherryRider (19 April 2014)

Fides said:



			I resent that some of the people that only bother with their horses once a day claim that people that do multiple checks do them badly!

Just done bedtime checks. Nets that were put up at 7 were nearly empty so put more up, stupid boy had kicked his water trug over so refilled that. Poor ****** would have been without food and water for about 10 hours had I not done 4th check today...
		
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If he knocks the water over now, he'll still be without water for 8-9 hours. Try securing the bucket with a tyre or a clip.

You could also ensure they have enough hay for the whole night. It isn't rocket science. Though when we have ours stabled, the YO's do night/morning checks for the yard. It's normal on a good yard.


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## MerrySherryRider (19 April 2014)

Goldenstar said:



			There fine for you that never would be for me .
I would never accept my horses just being' looked 'at in passing .
A check has to be a proper check for me .
		
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You under estimate my YO's, but then you don't know me or my standards, so I shan't lose sleep over random forum insults.


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## dogatemysalad (20 April 2014)

dark_prince said:



			This is what I'm thinking. I don't have any formal agreements, or even any verbal that I am aware of, where someone on the yard will officially check my horse. I do however know for certain that I am on a yard that everyone looks out for each other. I know that if I was down checking my horse, I would be the type of person to bring in and call vets and owners should there be a problem with someone elses horse. I also know that my YO is around and pottering the yard and fields and will always be there to help. If a horse is loose whilst everyone is at work or school, she will catch or herd into a field nearby so they are safe - without any agreement. It is just the type of yard I am on.
		
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My yard is like that, it's been a surprise to realise that some people stay on yards where other people  can't be trusted not to turn a blind eye to their horse's companions. 

I never feel put upon when I adjust another horse's rug in the field or bring one in to check for an abscess or stone trapped in a hoof. It seems a bit mean to begrudge the few moments it takes and its a chance to observe how the horses are in their free time.  It's part and parcel of livery yard life.


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## thatsmygirl (20 April 2014)

I go up a minimum of twice a day, my mare is in hard work so is on 2 feeds a day, does nobody feed their horses once turned out? In the morning I feed my mare/change rugs going by wether on all 4, check water every time I'm up there. My pony is now in by day so check his pulses and stable him, only takes about 1/2 hr in the morning but has to be done. In the evening they all come in to be worked/feed etc so I'm up there for about 3 hrs in the afternoon after work. Yard is about 8 miles away from home but I wouldn't dream of only going up once a day unless I had a reliable person to check for me but tbh would rather do it myself.


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## The wife (20 April 2014)

I just couldn't not check mine twice, if not more a day but then I run the yard so it's my job to. However it is the way we have been brought up as children. From a young age ponies were checked/done at least twice daily whatever the weather and regardless of what else we had on?

Maybe it is a generation thing? I may insult a few people here and for this i'm sorry but is it perhaps only old school horsemanship that seem to place such emphasis upon the care of their animals.  Don't get me wrong, as a leisure rider my horses would 'fit' around my own routine to a certain degree but would still be checked a minimum of twice daily, as a professional it is my job now to do so but you wouldn't shut a dog in a garden for 24hours without not checking or in fact a child for an hour! Why should horses be the same?

I have a few clients who pay us to do morning feeds/rugs/turnout etc because for whatever reason be it work or children can't get up to do their horse. It costs them a small amount but for their peace of mind it is well worth it.


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## julie111 (20 April 2014)

_HP_ said:



			That's the beauty of self filling water troughs and 24/7/365 grazing....no running out of either&#55357;&#56846;
		
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^^^^agree^^^^, water 24 hrs, forge 24 hrs and the freedom to move around and be a horse


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## paddi22 (20 April 2014)

The wife said:



			Maybe it is a generation thing? I may insult a few people here and for this i'm sorry but is it perhaps only old school horsemanship that seem to place such emphasis upon the care of their animals.
		
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i'm not sure, I know some old school hunting yards going for generations round here in ireland here are happy to give them summer off and do daily checks.   I do the once a day check as the horses are in a ginormous natural field with natural water supplies. If it was on a livery yard with a smaller turnout area i'd check more often as i feel horses do get into more trouble in smaller, less natural, varied spaces and larger herds. 

[/QUOTE]


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## Tiddlypom (20 April 2014)

julie111 said:



			^^^^agree^^^^, water 24 hrs, forge 24 hrs and the freedom to move around and be a horse 

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That's how mine are kept too, with purpose built shelters and also stabling available as a back up. I still would check them properly twice a day as a minimum, meaning go in close and hands on, not gaze from my kitchen and reckon 'they're ok'.

I have previously been on diy livery. I am one of the clued up and responsible owners who some posters are certain would pick up something wrong with their horse. However, although I would notice something that was obviously amiss, I would not do a circuit of the field and check every other horse in minute detail. For sure, I would cast my eye over them all but only en route to getting my own in. *Unless an owner had specifically asked me to check their horse for them, in which case it would get a 'proper' check, not a glancing one.*


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## _HP_ (20 April 2014)

Tiddlypom said:



			That's how mine are kept too, with purpose built shelters and also stabling available as a back up. I still would check them properly twice a day as a minimum, meaning go in close and hands on, not gaze from my kitchen and reckon 'they're ok' .
		
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This comment from me was in reply to Fides who was on her 4th check of the day and who had found her horse had virtually finished his hay and had knocked his water over btw....

Mine all get a full check once a day...ears to tail to hooves . My field is also checked and poo picked where necessary and extra trough filled so I am confident that any risk of them being on their own until I next go down is minimal ...
I don't know what sort of horses some of you have but I don't consider mine as accidents waiting to happen...


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## Fides (20 April 2014)

_HP_ said:



			That's the beauty of self filling water troughs and 24/7/365 grazing....no running out of either&#55357;&#56846;
		
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julie111 said:



			^^^^agree^^^^, water 24 hrs, forge 24 hrs and the freedom to move around and be a horse 

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Mine are normally out 24/7 but he trashed the fencing hence them being in...

As a fat pig he would eat a massive net too quickly, even doh me netted, so he gets 4 large ones.


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## Amymay (20 April 2014)

Spring Feather said:



			I just wouldn't put my horses in a position where they weren't being checked numerous times every single day I'm afraid.  If I did not have horses at home then I would keep them at a livery yard WITH an onsite 24/7 experienced yard owner.  However, even then, if I only had to drive 15 minutes from my home to see my horses then yes of course I would see them a minimum of twice a day, fully supervised yard or not.
		
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Completely agree.


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## MotherOfChickens (20 April 2014)

_HP_ said:



			This comment from me was in reply to Fides who was on her 4th check of the day and who had found her horse had virtually finished his hay and had knocked his water over btw....

Mine all get a full check once a day...ears to tail to hooves . My field is also checked and poo picked where necessary and extra trough filled so I am confident that any risk of them being on their own until I next go down is minimal ...
I don't know what sort of horses some of you have but I don't consider mine as accidents waiting to happen...
		
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I have native ponies mostly- susceptible to grass sickness etc just like any other breed-all unshod, all in a stable herd of geldings, on hill pasture with lofts of natural shelter and a burn. Still there am, pm after work to do stuff with them and last thing at night. When they are at home it's the same deal.


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## Auslander (20 April 2014)

The wife said:



			I just couldn't not check mine twice, if not more a day but then I run the yard so it's my job to. However it is the way we have been brought up as children. From a young age ponies were checked/done at least twice daily whatever the weather and regardless of what else we had on?

Maybe it is a generation thing? I may insult a few people here and for this i'm sorry but is it perhaps only old school horsemanship that seem to place such emphasis upon the care of their animals.
		
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You say that, but of all the yards I've worked on, it was the ones run by old school horsemen where the young stock/summering hunters/wintering eventers just got a daily check!


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## Mrs B (20 April 2014)

MerrySherryRider said:



			Likewise Mrs B. I happen to know that you're an extremely nice person. Probably nicer than me, tonight. 

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Don't know about that!  And I apologise for being grumpy ...


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## _HP_ (20 April 2014)

MotherOfChickens said:



			I have native ponies mostly- susceptible to grass sickness etc just like any other breed-all unshod, all in a stable herd of geldings, on hill pasture with lofts of natural shelter and a burn. Still there am, pm after work to do stuff with them and last thing at night. When they are at home it's the same deal. 

Click to expand...

Good for you ....you are clearly a much better person than me


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## MotherOfChickens (20 April 2014)

_HP_ said:



			Good for you ....you are clearly a much better person than me 

Click to expand...

No, I was just answering your query on the types of horses owned and why I check them, so the passive aggressive reply is unwarranted


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## _HP_ (20 April 2014)

MotherOfChickens said:



			No, I was just answering your query on the types of horses owned and why I check them, so the passive aggressive reply is unwarranted 

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It wasn't a query.....


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## Nancykitt (20 April 2014)

Wow, what a thread. 

When I kept our lads on a livery yard we were allowed 24/7 turnout from 1st May to 30th September. There was one girl who put her mare out on the 1st May and literally did not re-appear until the end of September. She made no formal arrangements for anyone to go and check the horse. However, the mare benefited from multiple 'checks' every single day simply because lots of other people were venturing out into the fields to check their own horses and would not turn a blind eye to a potential problem involving other horses. 

So the irony of this situation is that this totally irresponsible horse owner would probably be regarded as more virtuous - because her mare was constantly being checked - than the person busting a gut, trying to juggle work, family, illness etc to go up and see their horse once or twice a day. 

I can see this thing from a number of different perspectives. Is the person who checks their horse three times a day, but uses a very badly fitting saddle that has caused serious back problems for the horse, more 'responsible' than someone who checks their horse thoroughly once a day but makes sure that everything else is as perfect as they can humanly get it? Is the person who checks their horse six times a day but doesn't check the field for ragwort a better owner than the person who spends 3 hours a day with their horse in the field and makes sure that the fields are weed-free and totally secure?

Unfortunately, horse ownership has many, many aspects and we can get into all sorts of problems when we see things in isolation.


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## Goldenstar (20 April 2014)

Nancykitt said:



			Wow, what a thread. 

When I kept our lads on a livery yard we were allowed 24/7 turnout from 1st May to 30th September. There was one girl who put her mare out on the 1st May and literally did not re-appear until the end of September. She made no formal arrangements for anyone to go and check the horse. However, the mare benefited from multiple 'checks' every single day simply because lots of other people were venturing out into the fields to check their own horses and would not turn a blind eye to a potential problem involving other horses. 

So the irony of this situation is that this totally irresponsible horse owner would probably be regarded as more virtuous - because her mare was constantly being checked - than the person busting a gut, trying to juggle work, family, illness etc to go up and see their horse once or twice a day. 

I can see this thing from a number of different perspectives. Is the person who checks their horse three times a day, but uses a very badly fitting saddle that has caused serious back problems for the horse, more 'responsible' than someone who checks their horse thoroughly once a day but makes sure that everything else is as perfect as they can humanly get it? Is the person who checks their horse six times a day but doesn't check the field for ragwort a better owner than the person who spends 3 hours a day with their horse in the field and makes sure that the fields are weed-free and totally secure?

Unfortunately, horse ownership has many, many aspects and we can get into all sorts of problems when we see things in isolation.
		
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No we don't .
No one here in the twice a day camp would consider that girl a responsible owner .
Checking is catching ,doing feet , checking legs watching them move .
OP asked how often do you check your horse , a check is not seeing the horse is there and moving .
It quite possible to be a good owner and never see the horse ( although I never quite see the point of this. ) if you are paying good trustworthy people to do the work .
It's just plain silly to drag saddle fitting and pasture management into start threads on that if you like, the thread is about checking and three hours in the field leaves twenty one for things to go wrong and in my book that's just too long .
I would never ever allow a horse in my care to be checked once daily never ever full stop no exceptions .


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## hairycob (20 April 2014)

I have always been first up at the yard each morning & am usually last up. I always look over the other horses to check they don't have any legs hanging off etc & apart from a short period last year I have known that during the day other liveries would be doing the same for mine. BUT without a proper going up to the horse & interacting with it I doubt anybody would have spotted that Jason wasn't right last week - they would have seen a horse standing in a field shelter away from the flies. And yesterday they would have seen HP dozing in the corner of his field nearest the other horse on the yard, same as he has done every day this week. Going over to him I knew that Jason was "not himself", 9 hours later he was dead despite calling the vet straight away. HP was even less "not himself" he is currently in intensive care because someone who knew him well knew he "wasn't right". Another couple of hours & he probably wouldn't be here at all. If it had been the other horse & I had just glanced over I wouldn't have noticed a thing wrong.
I have never have & never will rely on my horses being just looked at & not properly checked twice a day. I'm grateful that I have generally liveried with people who know what to look out for but sometimes you just won't know unless you interact with a horse that there is something wrong & my horse is not their responsibility. It doesn't have to be the me but it does need to be someone who knows what they are doing & they do need to interact with the horse.


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## Nancykitt (20 April 2014)

Goldenstar said:



			It's just plain silly to drag saddle fitting and pasture management into start threads on that if you like, the thread is about checking and three hours in the field leaves twenty one for things to go wrong and in my book that's just too long .
I would never ever allow a horse in my care to be checked once daily never ever full stop no exceptions .
		
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Disagree totally, the way I see this thread quite a few people have been made to feel irresponsible. 

In my book, that's taking it out of context.

You may think it's 'just plain silly', but comparing horse ownership to dog ownership - as has been done - is at least as 'silly', and this has been pointed out.


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## Meowy Catkin (20 April 2014)

You make a very good point HC.


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## hairycob (20 April 2014)

I just wish I didn't have the anecdotes to back it up Faracat


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## Goldenstar (20 April 2014)

Nancykitt said:



			Disagree totally, the way I see this thread quite a few people have been made to feel irresponsible. 

In my book, that's taking it out of context.

You may think it's 'just plain silly', but comparing horse ownership to dog ownership - as has been done - is at least as 'silly', and this has been pointed out.
		
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I think that people who horses are checked once daily ( and it need not be by them ) are irresponsible once a day in not good enough in my book .
Now if that's makes you think for some bizarre reason because of that I don't check my paddocks ( I have very smart paddocks btw I put a lot of effort into them ) or don't check my saddles  ( I am incredibly fussy about saddles ) so be it .  
HC's sad situation illustrates perfectly why the twice daily check has to a proper up to the horse thing not oh there's X's horse  standing having a rest .
A check really is best done by someone who knows the horse and know the horses normal attitude .


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## Goldenstar (20 April 2014)

hairycob said:



			I just wish I didn't have the anecdotes to back it up Faracat
		
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It's just awful try to hang in there I have my fingers  crossed for him .


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## Meowy Catkin (20 April 2014)

I really hope that HP pulls through.


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## Possum (20 April 2014)

I only check my horse once a day when he's turned out 24/7 - he's in a field with about 20 other geldings, the owners of which are in and out of the field from 5am until long after it gets dark.  The chances of him being seriously injured without anyone noticing are minimal, and I'll deal with cuts/scrapes and minor lamenesses once a day because its not going to kill him! Don't think that makes me a terrible owner...


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## Spring Feather (20 April 2014)

Nancykitt said:



			Disagree totally, the way I see this thread quite a few people have been made to feel irresponsible.
		
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Have they?  Not from what I've read.  Everyone seems perfectly happy with the amount of checking they do for their horses, including the once a day people, so I'm not sure how you can speak for them by saying they feel whatever you think they feel :confused3:


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## julie111 (20 April 2014)

Spring Feather said:



			Have they?  Not from what I've read.  Everyone seems perfectly happy with the amount of checking they do for their horses, including the once a day people, so I'm not sure how you can speak for them by saying they feel whatever you think they feel :confused3:
		
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The posters that have said they do once a day checks have  been accused of neglect and told that they shouldn't own a horse. They are ridiculous comments to make. Some may consider once a day is enough, some may want to spend more time with their horses but can't for many reasons. I have said my ponies are checked once a day i am there for at least 3 hrs, I consider myself very responsible and my ponies are well cared for. I have a family and one of my daughters is disabled so I prioritise my time. If you some of you think I shouldn't own a horse then so be it. Just think a bit before you type, people on these forums often say things they wouldn't say face to face to someone.


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## YorksG (20 April 2014)

I would say  exactly the same face to face as on here, and have done. Owning a horse is not a right, if it's welfare is compromised by other lifestyle factors, it isn't the horses fault.


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## Spring Feather (20 April 2014)

julie111 said:



			The posters that have said they do once a day checks have  been accused of neglect and told that they shouldn't own a horse. They are ridiculous comments to make. Some may consider once a day is enough, some may want to spend more time with their horses but can't for many reasons. *I have said my ponies are checked once a day i am there for at least 3 hrs, I consider myself very responsible and my ponies are well cared for*. I have a family and one of my daughters is disabled so I prioritise my time.
		
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Thank you so much for proving my point exactly! :smile3:



			If you some of you think I shouldn't own a horse then so be it. Just think a bit before you type, people on these forums often say things they wouldn't say face to face to someone.
		
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I did think before I typed; clearly not all do :wink3:  I couldn't care less what other people do with their horses; none of my business but I certainly wouldn't have horses if I wasn't able to devote the time I feel is necessary for their care.


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## YorksG (20 April 2014)

Can I just also point out that the suggestion that owners who check twice or more each day are likely to neglect other aspects of their care, is as ridiculous as the assertion the all lighter riders put more pressure on their horses backs, another assertion we see on here regularly!


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## Fides (20 April 2014)

julie111 said:



			The posters that have said they do once a day checks have  been accused of neglect and told that they shouldn't own a horse. They are ridiculous comments to make.
		
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I actually think it is a perfectly reasonable comment to make. I didn't own horses until I knew I could give them the appropriate level of care. If someone can only visit once a day then I don't think owning a horse fits into their lives. If I could no longer do multiple checks a day I would put my horse on part livery so someone else could. I certainly wouldn't be relying on the kindness of others who do fit two trips a day into their lives - that IMO is taking advantage (and there are lots of exasperated threads about that...). My horses, my responsibility.

I am still finding it difficult to understand why anyone would think one check a day would be acceptable


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## Goldenstar (20 April 2014)

If someone in real life asked me directly if checking once a day is acceptable I would say exactly what I said here .


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## julie111 (20 April 2014)

Then we have to beg to differ.


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## dogatemysalad (20 April 2014)

YorksG said:



			Can I just also point out that the suggestion that owners who check twice or more each day are likely to neglect other aspects of their care, is as ridiculous as the assertion the all lighter riders put more pressure on their horses backs, another assertion we see on here regularly!
		
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I think the point is, that checking a horse twice a day means different things to different people, as does those who go once a day but are quite confident that there horses are well cared for in their absence. 

If you go twice, but don't take rugs off or turnout/over reach boots off or pick feet out, is that better care than one visit where the visit is more through, and the owner is confident that when they aren't there, in case of an emergency, someone will notice and take action ? 

I do think that accusing people who have a very good system of monitoring in place of being unfit owners, is unreasonable. 
But then, I've only had horses for more than 40 years. What do I know ?


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## Fides (20 April 2014)

dogatemysalad said:



			... the owner is confident that when they aren't there, in case of an emergency, someone will notice and take action...
		
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But this is taking advantage of others' good natures. It isn't their responsibility and they shouldn't be made to feel like it is...

I've been in the situation on a livery yard where someone only bothered visiting once a day and the horse was rugged up to the eyeballs on a blisteringly hot spring day, as when the owner went at 8am it was 'cold'. I resent having to deal with things like this where the owners don't care enough about their horse to make another trip. For one it eats into my time with my own horses... I wouldn't ever leave a horse in distress but why should I deal with it just because the poor horse doesn't fit into their owner's busy schedule.

Again - why should i use my precious time to look after someone else's horse just so they don't have to bother visiting?

Perhaps it's a good thing I have my own place as I would be seen as one of those with no 'community' spirit...

And out of interest - those who only visit once a day, how do you repay the kindness of these other liveries who you expect to check on your horses for you? There's certainly no chance of like-for-like, only visiting once a day. Can you not see that quite likely the other liveries consider you to be one of those taking advantage?


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## vikkiandmonica (20 April 2014)

Fides said:



			And out of interest - those who only visit once a day, how do you repay the kindness of these other liveries who you expect to check on your horses for you? There's certainly no chance of like-for-like, only visiting once a day. Can you not see that quite likely the other liveries consider you to be one of those taking advantage?
		
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People in my field often did their once a day check in the morning, where they would check my two, and then I would go up in the afternoon/evening and check their horses to repay the favor, so no one ended up taking advantage of anyone else. Everyone was happy to sort out rugs/fly masks if they had slipped etc., and as everyone did it for other people, it wasn't just one person doing it all so no one was taking advantage. So yes, it is perfectly possible to have a like-for-like arrangement when only visiting once a day.


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## YorksG (20 April 2014)

dogatemysalad said:



			I think the point is, that checking a horse twice a day means different things to different people, as does those who go once a day but are quite confident that there horses are well cared for in their absence. 

If you go twice, but don't take rugs off or turnout/over reach boots off or pick feet out, is that better care than one visit where the visit is more through, and the owner is confident that when they aren't there, in case of an emergency, someone will notice and take action ? 

I do think that accusing people who have a very good system of monitoring in place of being unfit owners, is unreasonable. 
But then, I've only had horses for more than 40 years. What do I know ?
		
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I too have had horses for more than 40 years and have no concerns if the horse is checked by a competentt person, by arrangement, more than once every 24 hours. The ones that worry me are those who are left for 20 or more hours without checks. That along with the presumption that those of us who do check more often will only do a perfunctuary check, is what is annoying me on this thread


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## maisie06 (20 April 2014)

I go twice - force of habit, I'm quite hands on as well, they get moved around in the morning, so the welsh will come out of his diet pen and have run of the back paddock - not much grass but enough to keep him interested, rugs may be changed depending on season, they all have a carrot and fly spray if needed, then evening time I move  the welsh back, feed, hay those that have hay, and poo pick......I am very lucky as I have teamed up with 2 friends and between us we have 5 horses and ponies, we have a bit of a system going so that everyone gets a couple of mornings off and evenings if wanted....although we love going to the yard in thye evening for a social!!

Horses thrive on routine so we wouldn't have it any other way, the couple of horses at the yard that can cause trouble are the ones who have no routine and sometimes are just "checked" from over the fence.....I can't see the point in owning a horse if you can't be bothered to even check on it's welfare...


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## dogatemysalad (20 April 2014)

YorksG said:



			I too have had horses for more than 40 years and have no concerns if the horse is checked by a competentt person, by arrangement, more than once every 24 hours. The ones that worry me are those who are left for 20 or more hours without checks. That along with the presumption that those of us who do check more often will only do a perfunctuary check, is what is annoying me on this thread
		
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I think we're all getting a bit annoyed on this thread. 

Fides. How it works is this. - I check my horses, I check the others in the field while I'm there. I know them well. I notice one is not quite right. I look more closely. If not happy, I look again, bring it in or call some one else over for a second opinion. 

I do not resent this. I love horses. It is not a nuisance. 

I know, the other owners and staff will do the same for mine. It's a nice and supportive atmosphere. The horses are very settled because they know when they need help, there's always a human nearby. No long waiting for the owners next visit. 
This means that my horses are observed continually through the waking hours. 

Who looks after yours when you leave the field ?


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## _HP_ (20 April 2014)

Fides said:



			I actually think it is a perfectly reasonable comment to make. 
I didn't own horses until I knew I could give them the appropriate level of care.
		
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Appropriate according to who? You or me? Lol 




			I am still finding it difficult to understand why anyone would think one check a day would be acceptable 

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Once a day is acceptable to me...I really don't care whether it is acceptable to you or anyone else.


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## touchstone (20 April 2014)

What an epic this thread is turning out to be! 

As I see it there are two issues being raised, a) the quantity of checks and b) the quality of those checks.

Taking all the rights and wrongs out of it and looking at it objectively it is patently obvious that the more decent quality checks a horse receives during the day the less the chances are of it suffering for any length of time if anything does occur.   If owners are happy checking once daily then that is up  to them, but I wouldn't be happy personally, even automatic waterers can break or fencing become damaged.  

Poor quality checks by a fellow livery glancing at a horse in a field can often miss serious problems as shown by several posts on here, whether that is once daily or five times daily.

My dad is in his seventies now, but his horses are checked religiously at 5am, he spends most of the day with them and they are checked just before he goes to bed, just as he always has done. I check mine twice daily as a minimum.

I do keep mine beside a footpath, and have a neighbour with horses so things have been brought to my attention by neighbour/passers by on occasion, which I look on as an additional bonus, but I wouldn't rely on that.   If I could only check once daily I'd be sure to find someone to do an additional check for me being left for 12 hours with something wrong is bad enough, but 24 hours is unacceptable.


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## Fides (20 April 2014)

_HP_ said:



			Once a day is acceptable to me...I really don't care whether it is acceptable to you or anyone else.
		
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And that is the route of the problem - not caring... You think once a day is OK and don't care what anyone else thinks. I actually see that as you not caring that you don't give a level of care to your horses as what is considered minimum to others... I care too much about my horses to only check them once a day.


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## _HP_ (20 April 2014)

Fides said:



			And out of interest - those who only visit once a day, how do you repay the kindness of these other liveries who you expect to check on your horses for you? There's certainly no chance of like-for-like, only visiting once a day. Can you not see that quite likely the other liveries consider you to be one of those taking advantage?
		
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I would never expect anyone to check on my horses for me...if they offered or It was arranged specifically then I would be extremely grateful of course.
I pass several fields of horses on my way to mine. I ALWAYS look out for all of them ...albeit a fairly quick glance as I drive past...and will report anything unusual to either the owner or the farmer to pass on. I have caught loose horses, freed horse trapped in their rugs or fences etc....I don't expect them to do the same for me even if it were likely (they don't pass mine except for when they ride past occasionally) and certainly am not doing it for any, likefor like.


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## _HP_ (20 April 2014)

Fides said:



			And that is the route of the problem - not caring... You think once a day is OK and don't care what anyone else thinks. I actually see that as you not caring that you don't give a level of care to your horses as what is considered minimum to others... I care too much about my horses to only check them once a day.
		
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Lol...I don't think me not caring what you and others think, in anyway relates to how I look after my horses 
If I cared about things like that my horses could end up stuck in stables and paddocks, rugged up to the eyeballs, fed allsorts of garbage and having shoes nailed onto their hooves, being worked hard with all kinds of gadgets on etc, etc. These are all things I've been frowned upon about in the past.
Don't mistake my not caring *What you think* with not caring about my much loved horses


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## amandap (20 April 2014)

I must be the BEST!  I check mine about 30 ( or more!) times a day. I look out the window and there they are! I also go out among them numerous times to give hay and poo pick etc. but at night I go to sleep and hope for the best!


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## Goldenstar (20 April 2014)

amandap said:



			I must be the BEST!  I check mine about 30 ( or more!) times a day. I look out the window and there they are! I also go out among them numerous times to give hay and poo pick etc. but at night I go to sleep and hope for the best! 

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You go to bed at night that's terrible .


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## touchstone (20 April 2014)

Goldenstar said:



			You go to bed at night that's terrible .
		
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Yep, shocking!


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## amandap (20 April 2014)

Goldenstar said:



			You go to bed at night that's terrible .
		
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I know! I'm only good for 16 hours approx!


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## MerrySherryRider (20 April 2014)

amandap said:



			I must be the BEST!  I check mine about 30 ( or more!) times a day. I look out the window and there they are! I also go out among them numerous times to give hay and poo pick etc. but at night I go to sleep and hope for the best! 

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Wot, you sleep and leave them unchecked all night ?

 I've just nicked my elderly mother's emergency alarm pendants for the horses.  Now the mare can alert me if my gelding is annoying her, and he can buzz me to let me know it's not his fault. 

Twice daily checks ? Nah, pendants are the way to go.


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## YorksG (20 April 2014)

amandap said:



			I must be the BEST!  I check mine about 30 ( or more!) times a day. I look out the window and there they are! I also go out among them numerous times to give hay and poo pick etc. but at night I go to sleep and hope for the best! 

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But if you only checkedonce per day, you would do a quality check


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## risky business (20 April 2014)

I have to say that those that reckon they check their horse a minimum of twice a day (so suggesting several visits) get the time?

Twice is plenty especially when you work or have other commitments which means you have other things to do other than horse watch. They can hurt themselves at any time and sometimes no you wont be there you just do what you can. I can't say iv ever felt the need to check my horse 3,4,5 times a day unless on box rest or something had happened that needed monitoring. 

When out though just twice for me.


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## Goldenstar (20 April 2014)

Today 
Saw them at six in my pj's 
Around eight thirty groom checks all of them in the stable indentifes cut on H's leg washes trims back hair .
Nineish I turn up dressed this time look at cut sprays then I check them .
I ride one then 
Groom checks trough give it a quick clean .
Three get turned out .
Ride another 
I turn him out having a quick look at the others .
Groom leaves just after two and checks before she goes .
I am going across there now so will have a quick look.
Between six and six thirty I will do a proper check headcollar hoof pick and spray for H's cut.
I will see them over the evening but will walk across and look at them just before dark.
Thats pretty standard day for us in summer .


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## noodle_ (20 April 2014)

i check mine twice a day - morning to muck out/chuck out and ride

night to either bring in or someone else does that for me... 

during the day any problems im sure i will get called



when im really busy in work i only go down once a day but then get someone else to check/feed/bring in - whatevers going on

i have no issue with people going down once a day/doign jobs and going - as long as they have food and water


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## _GG_ (20 April 2014)

Checking Fly 5-6 times a day now. She has other horses in the same field that she can scratch over the fence, but between Molly going yesterday and me being all caught up with a vile woman that I am trying to have her horses removed from, I am being extra vigilant!

Fly isn't minding it, lots more cuddles and treats


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## HashRouge (20 April 2014)

My horse is checked at least twice a day, but not necessarily by me. I keep her with my sister's horse so we share duties. Today I went up to turn them out and she will go up later to bring them in. My YO keeps a good eye on them through the day (lives on site) and also checks them early morning (when they are fed) and last thing (when they get more hay). They can't live out in the spring as they are both lami risks, but when they are out 24/7 later in the summer and part of winter as well we only go up once a day but the YO checks them several times during the day (she checks her lot and they are all turned out in adjoining fields, so no trouble to look at our two as well).


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## Charem (20 April 2014)

Personally, at least twice a day. Although I also share my yard with two others who will also cast a quick eye over my two and give me a call if they saw anything of concern, as I would for them.

I have however worked at several places where a group of horses, turned out in a decent sized field were only checked once a day. Time constraints on a competition yard meant there wasn't enough hours in the day to check the youngsters/broodmares/off with injury horses fully over twice a day, although everything within reason was done to ensure the chance of injuries occurring was as low as possible such as proper fencing, adequate food and water placed in several places, hind shoes off those who had shoes and horses grouped accordingly. 

I personally prefer to check horses in my care at least twice a day, but I know many people who only check theirs once and in the case of an old client who keeps forest run ponies they only get checked if she happens upon them out riding.


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## Ponycarrots (20 April 2014)

julie111 said:



			Grow up! Going once a day for a few hours means you are checking them and feeding them!
		
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Sorry but I like to feed twice a day; thought most people did. No disrespect or anything.


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## MerrySherryRider (20 April 2014)

Ponycarrots said:



			Sorry but I like to feed twice a day; thought most people did. No disrespect or anything.
		
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Depends on the quality of grazing, type of horse and level of work. Equine obesity is endemic, so probably a lot of people ease up on bucket feeds during the grazing season.


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## Spring Feather (20 April 2014)

What do once a day owners do with regards to rugs in the early spring and late autumn where the day time temperatures are far removed from the night time temperatures?  What about when there is snow on the ground and the horses need haying; how does that work?  I also thought most people fed hardfeed twice a day during winter.  As I say, it doesn't bother me what anyone does with their horses, I'm just curious is all.


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## MerrySherryRider (20 April 2014)

Spring Feather said:



			What do once a day owners do with regards to rugs in the early spring and late autumn where the day time temperatures are far removed from the night time temperatures?  What about when there is snow on the ground and the horses need haying; how does that work?  I also thought most people fed hardfeed twice a day during winter.  As I say, it doesn't bother me what anyone does with their horses, I'm just curious is all.
		
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My number of checks depends on their needs, not mine. 

Summer time, if rugs need changing, I go to do that twice a day. If a horse needs time of the grass, I do an extra visit. 
If the farrier is coming at midday, I might come 3 times that day. If one is one box rest, I bring a book and stay there. 

If its a nice day, not excessively hot or wet, I may only need to come once. 

When mine were on winter grass livery, they were fed once a day because they were getting fat. The snow was too deep for riding and they stood round the hay bales all day, not moving. 

Some of us really do stable on yards which cooperate as a community. Not as people just looking out for their own.


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## Ponycarrots (20 April 2014)

MerrySherryRider said:



			Depends on the quality of grazing, type of horse and level of work. Equine obesity is endemic, so probably a lot of people ease up on bucket feeds during the grazing season.
		
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But if you half the feed and feed twice daily it suits the  horse's digestive system more considering they're a grazing animal. That's what I've always been told anyway.


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## Spring Feather (20 April 2014)

MerrySherryRider said:



			My number of checks depends on their needs, not mine. 

Summer time, if rugs need changing, I go to do that twice a day. If a horse needs time of the grass, I do an extra visit. 
If the farrier is coming at midday, I might come 3 times that day. If one is one box rest, I bring a book and stay there. 

If its a nice day, not excessively hot or wet, I may only need to come once. 

When mine were on winter grass livery, they were fed once a day because they were getting fat. The snow was too deep for riding and they stood round the hay bales all day, not moving. 

Some of us really do stable on yards which cooperate as a community. Not as people just looking out for their own.
		
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See, I don't really view you as a once a day owner tbh.  You've clearly got people around you who can, and will, genuinely help out when needed, and you're no sloth in getting down to sorting out your horses yourself if more visits per day are necessary :smile3:


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## MerrySherryRider (20 April 2014)

Ponycarrots said:



			But if you half the feed and feed twice daily it suits the  horse's digestive system more considering they're a grazing animal. That's what I've always been told anyway.
		
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Depends on the size of the feed. for those receiving a token feed to carry a supplement or balancer, it is not necessary to spilt it, is it ? 
Some horses may need feeding 3 -4 times a day, so there is no 'rule' as such. Follow the horse's individual dietry need.


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## Shooting Star (20 April 2014)

Always twice a day hands on check without exception, anything can happen in a 24hr period from trees falling on fences to puncture wounds that aren't obvious without a proper close up check. 

I know plenty that think it's ok to expect the other liveries to notice if there is an issue with their horse and even to notice that they've left a feed or haynet outside their door and expect others to feed & water too having left the horses stabled for 24hrs with just one visit.

My personal opinion is that if you can't be bothered then don't bother at all. I've read the above posts and they don't change my view on this one iota, twice a day minimum - I will always do it myself or arrange for a specific & named person to do it for me regardless of the size of yard.


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## MerrySherryRider (20 April 2014)

Spring Feather said:



			See, I don't really view you as a once a day owner tbh.  You've clearly got people around you who can, and will, genuinely help out when needed, and you're no sloth in getting down to sorting out your horses yourself if more visits per day are necessary :smile3:
		
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Yes, maybe so. I follow what the horse's need rather than a set routine. I've no problem with going once a day but generally there is a reason to be there more than once. Once a day checking is pretty usual on a lot of yards.


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## AdorableAlice (20 April 2014)

Blimey, bit of an epic read.  Some of the replies reinforce my decision not to have liveries and why if I was in a position to have to go onto a livery yard I would sell up and quit.

My view is we all keep horses for pleasure and we all do our best to provide them with care and a safe environment.  My horses survived most of last year with minimal supervision, not ideal but circumstances dictated.

Twice daily checks are the norm for most full time working owners, before and after work and I would think that is all the majority of owners can manage unless the horse is kept under the bedroom window.  My advice is do your best, enjoy what you do and provide the animal with the safest environment you can.  If you are unfortunate enough to be on a yard   of experts make sure the advice is relevant.


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## windand rain (21 April 2014)

AdorableAlice said:



			Blimey, bit of an epic read.  Some of the replies reinforce my decision not to have liveries and why if I was in a position to have to go onto a livery yard I would sell up and quit.

My view is we all keep horses for pleasure and we all do our best to provide them with care and a safe environment.  My horses survived most of last year with minimal supervision, not ideal but circumstances dictated.

Twice daily checks are the norm for most full time working owners, before and after work and I would think that is all the majority of owners can manage unless the horse is kept under the bedroom window.  My advice is do your best, enjoy what you do and provide the animal with the safest environment you can.  If you are unfortunate enough to be on a yard   of experts make sure the advice is relevant.
		
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Wise words


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## Queenbee (21 April 2014)

I thought about this thread today.  Especially the fact that for some of those who only checked once a day argued that the field was a safer environment for their horse and less risk = less need for checking.  Now Ben gets checked twice a day, once by yo in the morning and once in the evening by me, although there is nearly always someone around on the yard should something happen.  Currently Ben is out at night and in at day, however, were he on 24/7 turnout, he would still be religiously checked twice a day.  This morning, yo went to get him in and he had gashed his leg, the fields are as safe as can be, not death traps, simple little paddocks with the correct fencing, overnight (or should I say this morning as the blood was still fresh when she found him) Ben had cut himself up on an electric fence post trying to break through into his neighbors paddock despite having more grass in his own.  He is ok, but sore and slightly lame, I would have been absolutely mortified if He were checked once a day and this happened, to think that if that were the case he could have gone all day without it being washed, tended to and treated, or god forbid if it had gone deeper and been more severe.  As it is, because he is checked twice daily, it was spotted not long after it happened and was treated right away.  

I don't particularly judge anyone for what they do with their own horses, but I know that I rest far easier knowing that he is checked twice a day, and I know that whilst Ben was lucky in the sense that he was checked just after the incident occurred and that just as easily he could have done it last night and gone all night with it, the fact is this did not happen.  The bottom line is that a horse can go down at night with colic or a broken leg, and go all night without being spotted -and this is the case for those who check once a day and for those who check twice, but the bottom line in my mind is that two checks a day minimise the risk significantly in comparison to one check a day, and that can only ever be a good thing.


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## SO1 (21 April 2014)

I have thought about this a lot. I am a once a day person during the week because of my long commute mornings are very difficult and I doubt the YO would appreciate me being at the yard at 5.30am. The first person on the yard also has to feed all the horses that live in breakfast which adds another 30 minutes and I am not sure that the liveries would want their horses fed so early either. 

It is not ideal that I cant check my pony twice a day and I accept that is a risk that I take to enable my pony to live out. When I bought my pony I had intended to have him on part livery but it turned out he did not like being stabled and there are no full livery grass livery options in my area where my pony would be caught and physically inspected twice a day. He would not be happy stuck in stable for 16 hours a day or in some cases longer if winter turnout is limited so part livery is not really suitable for him as he needs a full grid up to prevent him from jumping out of his stable. YO does a basic field check in the mornings but it is not the same as me checking my pony myself as is it a brief visual check not a full on inspection. None of the other liveries in the same field come twice a day so I am not taking advantage of anyone who is coming twice a day to help keep an eye on my pony. In fact I have often been the only livery that has come every day and I am the only person that comes in the evening as I am the only person that works full time.  We have a community spirit amongst the other liveries and we look out for each other.

At the moment I cannot provide my pony with the perfect home which would enable him to live out and be inspected every few hours and I have to rely on YO noticing something is wrong when she does her basic field checks in the morning or one of the other who go up during the day whilst I am at work. In the evenings after work I can give my pony a good inspection and his dinner and as well as do a quick visual check on his field mates. However if everyone who cannot provide the perfect home for a horse {and that includes horses that get very little or no turnout in the winter or have to spend large amounts of time stabled or on individual turnout} did not have horses where would these horses go? I think there are a lot of competition stallions who do not have a great quality of life as they don't get group turnout or in some cases any turnout. This may be a very safe way of preventing injuries or illness but it does not mean that the horse is having a great quality of life.

Over the years I have meet lots of people with horses and only 2 of them have the perfect homes where the horses live out in company at home they have field shelters and the owners don't need to work so the horses are checked every few hours during the day and they can do a late night check at 11pm and change rugs according to the weather every few hours if need be.

I think we need to accept that the majority of horses are going to be kept in less than perfect conditions and that different people have different ideas of what is acceptable and what risks they are going to take.

My pony probably has a better quality of life than a lot of horses that have to spend lots of time stabled. Even though I cannot at the moment provide him with a perfect home I feel I can provide him with a good quality of life, even if I am having to take some risks to be able to provide him with the lifestyle he likes.


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## julie111 (21 April 2014)

Ponycarrots said:



			Sorry but I like to feed twice a day; thought most people did. No disrespect or anything.
		
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My ponies certainly don't need feeding twice a day, one feed is ample thank you very much. I don't want to end up with two laminitic ponies, I think you will find most good doers living out 24/7 get one feed a day if that. You really come out with some rubbish!


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## julie111 (21 April 2014)

Ponycarrots said:



			But if you half the feed and feed twice daily it suits the  horse's digestive system more considering they're a grazing animal. That's what I've always been told anyway.
		
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But if they are out 24/7 they are doing what they are designed to do graze!


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## The Fuzzy Furry (21 April 2014)

julie111 said:



			My ponies certainly don't need feeding twice a day, one feed is ample thank you very much. I don't want to end up with two laminitic ponies, I think you will find most good doers living out 24/7 get one feed a day if that. You really come out with some rubbish!
		
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Wind your neck in poppet, not everyone does the same, nor do they all have 'good doers'
Take a breath and save your aggression for something else eh


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## julie111 (21 April 2014)

The Fuzzy Furry said:



			Wind your neck in poppet, not everyone does the same, nor do they all have 'good doers'
Take a breath and save your aggression for something else eh 

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No not everyone does, I do what is best for my ponies. I'm not being aggressive but there are plenty of aggressive posts on here bashing people who see their horses once a day.


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## _HP_ (21 April 2014)

Spring Feather said:



			What do once a day owners do with regards to rugs in the early spring and late autumn where the day time temperatures are far removed from the night time temperatures?  What about when there is snow on the ground and the horses need haying; how does that work?  I also thought most people fed hardfeed twice a day during winter.  As I say, it doesn't bother me what anyone does with their horses, I'm just curious is all.
		
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Generally, I don't rug in winter . They are hardy , have plenty of space and grazing, a big shelter and a concrete yard to stand on out of any mud. They get fed a balancer all year round and get a bit of hay each day if required (in winter). 
I'll happily go up a hundred times a day if required ie snow/ exceptional weather / drought/ or whatever.


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## Ponycarrots (21 April 2014)

MerrySherryRider said:



			Depends on the size of the feed. for those receiving a token feed to carry a supplement or balancer, it is not necessary to spilt it, is it ? 
Some horses may need feeding 3 -4 times a day, so there is no 'rule' as such. Follow the horse's individual dietry need.
		
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Well I've always heard that because the horses stomach is so small; if you feed more, smaller feeds, the stomach can handle it better and gets more out of them.   So say, 2 feeds that weigh 1lb each are better than  than 1 feed that weighs 2lb. 
But I do own an ex racer who's a very poor doer so I try and do as much as possible to get weight on him lol.


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## Ponycarrots (21 April 2014)

Well actually because the horse's stomach can only hold a small amount, they do get more out of 2 or more smaller feeds as opposed to one large feed.  Even if your ponies are good doers, it's better for them if you split your one a day feed into two, as they can use the nutrients they are eating more.
I own an ex racer who is a terrible doer so I do try to read up on feeding to find out what's best for him.   But my previous horse was a good doing cob who I needed to keep weight off of as he had laminitis once. I still preferred to feed him twice daily for the same reason. 
It may be rubbish to you (I have no idea what your reasoning is lol but whatever) but it's worked for me anyway. And everyone I know (no exaggeration here; I mean everyone; from poor doer owners to fat lami-prone pony owners) feed their horses twice a day.  Besides I don't want my horse to get colic.


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## Spring Feather (21 April 2014)

Not if they are feeding balancers Ponycarrots :smile3:  Balancers are often only fed at rations of around 1lb to 2lbs per day depending on the horse.  Any feed under 4lbs is perfectly fine to be fed in one sitting.  It's when people feed a huge bucket of feed once a day that they are simply throwing money down the drain.

Thanks H_P, somehow I feel the once a dayers are doing themselves a bit of a disservice in that they don't rigidly stick to once a day, every day.  They are flexible too when needs must.


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## Ponycarrots (21 April 2014)

Spring Feather said:



			Not if they are feeding balancers Ponycarrots :smile3:  Balancers are often only fed at rations of around 1lb to 2lbs per day depending on the horse.  Any feed under 4lbs is perfectly fine to be fed in one sitting.  It's when people feed a huge bucket of feed once a day that they are simply throwing money down the drain.

Thanks H_P, somehow I feel the once a dayers are doing themselves a bit of a disservice in that they don't rigidly stick to once a day, every day.  They are flexible too when needs must.
		
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i know, I feed my horses balancers. Ok fair enough. It's upto the owner but I personally don't see the point in having a horse if you only go once daily.  I love them and would miss them too much lol!  Fair enough if some days you're busy and can't make twice daily visits so you get some one else to do it for you, but I would feel bad if I didn't. I'm just a softy I guess lol


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## MerrySherryRider (21 April 2014)

Ponycarrots said:



			Well actually because the horse's stomach can only hold a small amount, they do get more out of 2 or more smaller feeds as opposed to one large feed.  Even if your ponies are good doers, it's better for them if you split your one a day feed into two, as they can use the nutrients they are eating more.
I own an ex racer who is a terrible doer so I do try to read up on feeding to find out what's best for him.   But my previous horse was a good doing cob who I needed to keep weight off of as he had laminitis once. I still preferred to feed him twice daily for the same reason. 
It may be rubbish to you (I have no idea what your reasoning is lol but whatever) but it's worked for me anyway. And everyone I know (no exaggeration here; I mean everyone; from poor doer owners to fat lami-prone pony owners) feed their horses twice a day.  Besides I don't want my horse to get colic. 

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In summer time, if the horse has decent grazing, it isn't always necessary to feed buckets of hard feed. There is a stud near me with TB brood mares with a value going into 6 figures, certainly not fed bucket feeds.  They winter out, unrugged,  fed only haylage and according to my vet, are amongst the healthiest horses in the county. 

Its fine to feed twice a day if you wish to, but for me, splitting a mug of balancer into 2 feeds seems a bit pointless for my WB X TB and the cob.


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## Ponycarrots (21 April 2014)

MerrySherryRider said:



			In summer time, if the horse has decent grazing, it isn't always necessary to feed buckets of hard feed. There is a stud near me with TB brood mares with a value going into 6 figures, certainly not fed bucket feeds.  They winter out, unrugged,  fed only haylage and according to my vet, are amongst the healthiest horses in the county. 

Its fine to feed twice a day if you wish to, but for me, splitting a mug of balancer into 2 feeds seems a bit pointless for my WB X TB and the cob.
		
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fair enough. I do though. As do all the people I know.  the grazing here isn't that great right now so I do need to feed him a fair bit. As well as hay. 
 Although, Even when my horse was on great grazing, he needed two feeds with topline cubes and balancer. However he was in work; hacked out or schooled most days  so was  probably using more calories than broodmares.  
This is kind of besides the point; I don't get why you wouldn't want to check your horse(s) twice a day or more. They are kept for pleasure; it's not that you have to have them, so shouldn't you want to see them?!


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## _HP_ (22 April 2014)

Ponycarrots said:



			They are kept for pleasure; it's not that you have to have them, so shouldn't you want to see them?!
		
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Yes ...I want to see them once a day

It's not a contest...' The more you see them the more you love them or the better you are' &#128516;


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## Serephin (22 April 2014)

Ponycarrots said:



			It's upto the owner but I personally don't see the point in having a horse if you only go once daily.
		
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Well, you can't argue with that kind of logic.

Good lord.


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## julie111 (22 April 2014)

Ponycarrots said:



			fair enough. I do though. As do all the people I know.  the grazing here isn't that great right now so I do need to feed him a fair bit. As well as hay. 
 Although, Even when my horse was on great grazing, he needed two feeds with topline cubes and balancer. However he was in work; hacked out or schooled most days  so was  probably using more calories than broodmares.  
This is kind of besides the point; I don't get why you wouldn't want to check your horse(s) twice a day or more. They are kept for pleasure; it's not that you have to have them, so shouldn't you want to see them?!
		
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There is a lot you don't get  but please get this, I love my ponies very much and I enjoy spending time with them


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## PolarSkye (22 April 2014)

Apologies, I've not read the whole thread (it's flipping EPIC), but here's my two pennyworth.  My boy is stabled at night so I HAVE to go up to muck out/do at some point in the day (no assistance) . . . and I generally go up twice a day.  However, on some afternoons, a fellow livery brings him in for me - checks him over, rugs him, gives him his tea . . . and some mornings I don't go up at all and Z rides him, rugs him up and turns him out (this is extremely rare).  If he lived out 24/7 on current yard there are soooooo many people about that if he were hopping lame or gushing blood it would be noticed . . . however I don't happen to think it's their job to keep an eye on my horse - plus, I genuinely enjoy his company.

I like to be able to see the little things . . . is he leaving all his hay or is his net empty?  How much is he drinking - more than usual or less?  What does his stable/bed look like - and what sort of night did he have?  Are there any new nicks/cuts/rubs/lumps or bumps?  I like to have a good look at him . . . is he unusually grumpy or cuddly or tired or sharp?  Are there more skid marks than usual in the field?  Did he and Rog eat up their field hay?  Are they drinking more or less water than usual?

Of course I am not the only person capable of noticing these things . . . but I don't why I would ask someone else to be so vigilant - he is mine after all, and I know him better than anyone else.  

P


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## dogatemysalad (22 April 2014)

Ponycarrots said:



			fair enough. I do though. As do all the people I know.  the grazing here isn't that great right now so I do need to feed him a fair bit. As well as hay. 
 Although, Even when my horse was on great grazing, he needed two feeds with topline cubes and balancer. However he was in work; hacked out or schooled most days  so was  probably using more calories than broodmares.  
This is kind of besides the point; I don't get why you wouldn't want to check your horse(s) twice a day or more. They are kept for pleasure; it's not that you have to have them, so shouldn't you want to see them?!
		
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I must be very lucky to have had a lifetime of keeping horses of all types in work on minimal hard feed. Of course they aren't in hard work, but they are worked daily. 

How much time do you spend with yours ? Whether my visits are singular or multiple, the length of time is much the same. I'm working directly with them for between 4-5 hours most days. Sunday, was 8.30 am to 1pm and then again at 5-7pm. Another day, it might be one visit  from 1pm to 6pm.  It depends on what we have planned and what their needs are on a particular day.


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## TGM (22 April 2014)

PolarSkye said:



			I like to be able to see the little things . . . is he leaving all his hay or is his net empty?  How much is he drinking - more than usual or less?  What does his stable/bed look like - and what sort of night did he have?  Are there any new nicks/cuts/rubs/lumps or bumps?  I like to have a good look at him . . . is he unusually grumpy or cuddly or tired or sharp?  Are there more skid marks than usual in the field?  Did he and Rog eat up their field hay?  Are they drinking more or less water than usual?
		
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I think this is a very important point.  Yes, if you are on a busy yard you would hope someone would notice if there was something very obviously wrong, like horse colicking badly or non weightbearing on one leg, but it is the more subtle signs that things are wrong that can be easily be missed by someone just passing through to catch their horse.  If I couldn't check twice a day I would want to know that someone (whether yard staff or fellow livery owner) had specifically agreed to do an individual check on my horse, rather than assuming that someone might notice all was not well.


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## splashnutti1 (22 April 2014)

Have read through most of the thread an here is my opinion.

I am completely by myself on my own yard, i have 3 horses i work full time and have a disabled partner whom i care for.

Personally im a twice a day girl if my horses are out 24/7 my horses are checked in a morning, if im at work im usually there for 7am and leave at 7.50am ish they are moved around, hayed, fed, rugged etc according to each horse. If im not at work i am there for 8.30 to do the same.

Then i return after work at 5pm to ride, groom, feed etc and im usually there 2-3 hours. Same if im off work.

I am lucky that there is a yard next door where people visit during the day and it is agreed they will keep an eye out over my yard and horses whilst there and i do same for them when im at my yard.

There is also a lady on the next yard up who walks her dog at night around 11pm so she glances over everyones horses. If she is away then i make a visit before bed around ten to check mine for a third time.

personally i dont think once a day is enough and even with my busy schedule i will always make time to fit in 2-3 visits to my horses, if i am sick i still go unless im rendered unmovable in which case either my sister will do them or  i pay someone responsible to do as i do for them, same if i go on hols, but that is my opinion and what others do is up to them.

Fyi: my horses are not at home. x


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