# TRF lane clearing in Gloucestershire



## Pampera (8 December 2010)

Where theres a wheel theres a way



Motorcycling members of the Trail Riders Fellowship have cleared two Unclassified County Roads near Thrupp to make them more accessible for all users.
The trail riders, who enjoy riding their road legal motorcycles on unsurfaced roads and vehicular rights of way in the county, had noticed that the two lanes at Mackworth had become so overgrown as to be almost unusable by horse riders and cyclists.
Using hand tools, and taking care to stack the pruned wood on the banks of the lanes where it will provide a valuable ecological habitat for hibernating invertebrates and mammals during the winter, the TRF members cleared undergrowth and overhanging branches out of the way.
Removal of some of the shading will also let in light and air, helping to maintain the stability of the road surface over the winter.
Spokesman Richard Simpson said: We are keen that Gloucestershires historic network of unsurfaced roads should remain open for all to use: whether on legs or wheels. We only carry out this work at times of year when it will have a positive impact on the local ecology.


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## irish_only (8 December 2010)

Pampera said:



			Where theres a wheel theres a way



Removal of some of the shading will also let in light and air, helping to maintain the stability of the road surface over the winter.
Spokesman Richard Simpson said: We are keen that Gloucestershires historic network of unsurfaced roads should remain open for all to use: whether on legs or wheels. We only carry out this work at times of year when it will have a positive impact on the local ecology.
		
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Yaki bloody da - I wish they would sod off. The lanes round us are completely buggered thanks to motor bikes and a lot of the time unfit and unsafe to ride on.
When I asked the TRF why they could not ride on the existing wheel track and leave the middle undisturbed they looked at me as if I had lost my marbles.
A very clever group of people.................
HATE THEM HATE THEM HATE THEM.


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## perfect11s (9 December 2010)

irish_only said:



			Yaki bloody da - I wish they would sod off. The lanes round us are completely buggered thanks to motor bikes and a lot of the time unfit and unsafe to ride on.
When I asked the TRF why they could not ride on the existing wheel track and leave the middle undisturbed they looked at me as if I had lost my marbles.
A very clever group of people.................
HATE THEM HATE THEM HATE THEM.
		
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 Nice to see someone doing something instead of moaning like you are, sadly there are very few unsurfaced rights of way  left with the higher byway status so increasing the risk of lane damage though over use,    why not use the other rights of way? , and anyway a horse  can do a fair bit of damage
so dont  be such a selfish hipocrite as you are part of the problem  why do you think you have more rights than  other users????


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## irish_only (9 December 2010)

Horses don't create a problem where I am - just the bikers.
I guess you are a member of the TRF or also go off roading.
I am not anti biking - we have a road bike.
Nor am I anti groups who help to clear access to the off road routes.
Just the TRF who as I said before are a very clever bunch - shame the Bridleways Association can't get their act together the way your lot have.
I've tried very hard before to get some dialogue going with TRF re the way they ride on green lanes, and in a VERY polite way, but they showed their true colours. 

End of my post on this -


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## perfect11s (9 December 2010)

irish_only said:



			Horses don't create a problem where I am - just the bikers.
I guess you are a member of the TRF or also go off roading.
I am not anti biking - we have a road bike.
Nor am I anti groups who help to clear access to the off road routes.
Just the TRF who as I said before are a very clever bunch - shame the Bridleways Association can't get their act together the way your lot have.
I've tried very hard before to get some dialogue going with TRF re the way they ride on green lanes, and in a VERY polite way, but they showed their true colours. 

End of my post on this -
		
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 I used to before horse ownership ...  I dont understand why you think the bikes should ride in the ruts!! so the middle bit is for you to chew up  hmm ok..  seriously everyone should try and get along with each other and its not a bad idea to stay off the lanes that get in a mess in winter which  i think you will find the more responsible user groups like the TRF and the 4x4 clubs   opperate a clearance service and also show restraint in bad conditions so as to protect the lanes for everyone  it does seem like other users spend there time taking and putting nothing back...


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## Pampera (9 December 2010)

irish_only said:



			Yaki bloody da - I wish they would sod off. The lanes round us are completely buggered thanks to motor bikes and a lot of the time unfit and unsafe to ride on.
When I asked the TRF why they could not ride on the existing wheel track and leave the middle undisturbed they looked at me as if I had lost my marbles.
A very clever group of people.................
HATE THEM HATE THEM HATE THEM.
		
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"Irish' is about right (no offence to anyone from Ireland).


What are the respective ground pressures of horses and bikes (weight of horse or bike + weight of rider / surface area of hoof or tyre in contact with ground?

Oh, I expect that like one lady I met you think that the ground pressure of your horse is halved because it only has two hooves on the ground when it's walking!

Vehicles repeatedly using the same rut will make said rut deeper - is that what you want?

Why don't you just ride on bridleways and restricted byways: there are far more of those than there are UCRs and BOATS?

Or just ride round and round one of those all-weather surface riding schools: some are under cover so you won't even get wet when it rains!


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## perfect11s (9 December 2010)

Pampera said:



			"Irish' is about right (no offence to anyone from Ireland).


What are the respective ground pressures of horses and bikes (weight of horse or bike + weight of rider / surface area of hoof or tyre in contact with ground?

Oh, I expect that like one lady I met you think that the ground pressure of your horse is halved because it only has two hooves on the ground when it's walking!

Vehicles repeatedly using the same rut will make said rut deeper - is that what you want?

Why don't you just ride on bridleways and restricted byways: there are far more of those than there are UCRs and BOATS?

Or just ride round and round one of those all-weather surface riding schools: some are under cover so you won't even get wet when it rains!
		
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LOL


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## Archangel (10 December 2010)

Pampera said:



			Oh, I expect that like one lady I met you think that the ground pressure of your horse is halved because it only has two hooves on the ground when it's walking!
		
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Without wishing to appear pernickety  two hooves on the ground is trotting, when walking three hooves will be on the ground and one in the air 

I often encounter what I assume are trail riders (muddy blokes on mean looking bikes) and they fall over themselves not to upset the horses.  The 4WD people really do cut the tracks up but they are a friendly and considerate too.  That said, we have loads of bridleways and BOATS round here so we have plenty of choice.


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## Avonbrook (10 December 2010)

A significant number of the tougher and more remote endurance rides couldn't function without the TFR.  Not only do they route mark and work on the day but are also hugely important in terms of emergency cover.  I have personally been very grateful to the TFR riders one Golden Horseshoe Ride where the fog descended suddenly on Cheriton Ridge. A succession of them sounded their horns until all the riders who couldn't see from one flag to another amongst the bogs were able to home in on them and were accounted for. 

I have had far more trouble with mountain bikers "hissing" along head down than I ever have with motorised BOAT users!


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## 1stclassalan (13 December 2010)

I think that we should observe the operative word here to be "motor" as in motor bike and unless these vehicles are being used expressly for a farming purpose they should be banned from green lanes and bridleways. For crying out loud they have pushed all horse traffic off the roads to the extent that one is taking the lives of horse and rider lightly to go on one and then they invade what little peacefull country there is left!

Most bikers I've seen seem to love making any muddy rut bigger - the bigger the better and then may be drive around the field as well but as for all that about who makes the biggest mess - I don't care - get the damn bikes out!


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## perfect11s (13 December 2010)

1stclassalan said:



			I think that we should observe the operative word here to be "motor" as in motor bike and unless these vehicles are being used expressly for a farming purpose they should be banned from green lanes and bridleways. For crying out loud they have pushed all horse traffic off the roads to the extent that one is taking the lives of horse and rider lightly to go on one and then they invade what little peacefull country there is left!

Most bikers I've seen seem to love making any muddy rut bigger - the bigger the better and then may be drive around the field as well but as for all that about who makes the biggest mess - I don't care - get the damn bikes out!
		
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 Isnt it lucky we have responsible  user groups that work together  if you want to ban them from the tiny number of rights of way still left  the fine but your selfish attiude  would only get rid of the law abiding motorised user  and  unlawfull use  would increase, the other thing is horses do considrable damage and there  is hostility from other users so once wheeled users are banned then us snobs on horses will be next....unless they are only being used for farming purposes!!!


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## sywell (13 December 2010)

I think horse riders will agree that rights of way are there for all but any user should not damage the surface so that is unuseable by any other users. I was amazed that Northamptonshire allowed motorcycles to use byways in the winter when they were closed to motor vehicles as around the main towns they were trashed but then a councillor turned up in his leathers at a LAF meeting and much was explained.


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## Eddie Edster (13 December 2010)

Thanks for clearing the lanes, I'm not in that area but nice to know that other user groups will benefit from your actions. In the past as member of a harness club I have cleared lanes so they remained in use otherwise they would have just got so overgrown that they would have been lost.

Riding in the same rut all the time is last thing you want to happen, as said, using the same rut all the time just wears it away even quicker, as a carriage driver ruts are anything but ideal and many of the lanes I used to drive are no longer safe as they have one single deep rut in the middle made by years of hooves and feet treading the same path as the edges of the lanes get more and more overgrown.  Having two large ruts either side of a central 'reservation'  isn't that good either but I have always found that it's the farm traffic that makes those, one of the modern monster tractors seems to do more damage in one pass than a whole Sunday mornings worth of hooves, feet, mountain bikes, 4X4's, trail riders etc etc, I am not complaining, just being realistic as that is what tractors do - farm the countryside. 

I've never come across motorbikes on the lanes behaving badly they have always been most courteous and obliging though have had several incidents with mountain bikers, (maybe the endorphins created by exercise affect their brains and common sense - like looking where they are going  and maybe some refuse to lose speed when passing you as they then have to peddle harder to gain it again), and as for who cuts up the tracks most.... I can't say that horse riders are squeaky clean who hasn't been hit by clods of earth thrown up from the horse in front when having a spirited ride.  

I have come across the TRF in the horse world as marshalls, score collectors, route markers etc before but in the current economic climate (don't you just hate that phrase) that all groups that use the Rights of Way across the country ought to get together and see what they can do to keep them open. By banning trail riders and carriage drivers off what lanes are left to them the lanes will get more overgrown more quickly, the more overgrown they get the less they are used by all which means they get overgrown more quickly, the council cannot then afford to clear them so the lane is then lost - to everyone.


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## Pampera (13 December 2010)

1stclassalan said:



			I think that we should observe the operative word here to be "motor" as in motor bike and unless these vehicles are being used expressly for a farming purpose they should be banned from green lanes and bridleways. For crying out loud they have pushed all horse traffic off the roads to the extent that one is taking the lives of horse and rider lightly to go on one and then they invade what little peacefull country there is left!

Most bikers I've seen seem to love making any muddy rut bigger - the bigger the better and then may be drive around the field as well but as for all that about who makes the biggest mess - I don't care - get the damn bikes out!
		
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Just for the record, motorbikes are not allowed on bridleways.

If you see any motorbikes on bridleways, please report them, they really are a PIA.

thanks!


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## irish_only (13 December 2010)

1stclassalan said:



			I think that we should observe the operative word here to be "motor" as in motor bike and unless these vehicles are being used expressly for a farming purpose they should be banned from green lanes and bridleways. For crying out loud they have pushed all horse traffic off the roads to the extent that one is taking the lives of horse and rider lightly to go on one and then they invade what little peacefull country there is left!

Most bikers I've seen seem to love making any muddy rut bigger - the bigger the better and then may be drive around the field as well but as for all that about who makes the biggest mess - I don't care - get the damn bikes out!
		
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Exactly my point 
Near me we have one bridleway, the rest are green lanes, but the majority of green lanes are un-rideable on horseback because of the 'third rut' created in the middle by motorbikes. So the TRF create a route, make it unusable by others, and then say we are a selfish lot.

BIOMECHANICS - 
horse walks on two tracks - centre of green lane flat so horse can walk on it.
motorbike single track - could go either side but goes in middle-makes third rut - lane now unusable by horses, and in some cases walkers.
Approach TRF to ask how we can overcome this problem - told 'not their problem'


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## Pampera (14 December 2010)

sywell said:



			I think horse riders will agree that rights of way are there for all but any user should not damage the surface so that is unuseable by any other users. I was amazed that Northamptonshire allowed motorcycles to use byways in the winter when they were closed to motor vehicles as around the main towns they were trashed but then a councillor turned up in his leathers at a LAF meeting and much was explained.
		
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But when it's wet, horses can 'poach' the surface of a lane really badly. This can stop drainage because of damage to the underlying soil structure and creates a surface which is very unpleasant for cyclists. Do you keep your horse off bridleways and byways when the soil is wet?

Bear in mind that much of the winter damage to byways is done by farm vehicles. You'd need an awful lot of 150 kg, 20 bhp bikes to duplicate the impact of one 150 bhp 7 tonne tractor/trailer combination.


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