# Foal aborted



## Rollin (23 January 2015)

We are heartbroken.  Fed one of our Shagya mares this morning and found her front legs covered in blood.  She was due to foal in April.  She had aborted a perfectly formed foal in the night.

Vet came and had to remove some of the placenta left behind, took bloods etc for tests.  After he had gone, we found a second foal the size of a rabbit.

She was scanned so we are traumatised this was missed.  We were so looking forward to this foal, she is a wonderful mother.

This is the second of our mares who has twinned, the last was also missed by a new female vet who thought it was a cyst, the boss came back and pinched out the second.


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## LittleBlackMule (23 January 2015)

Absolutely tragic, I feel for you.


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## Maesfen (23 January 2015)

Awful news especially when they have come so far; I really feel for you, more so too that yours are a rare breed.  Better luck this year I hope.

Many twins are missed especially if they are hiding behind the other; it's a very good excellent vet that can spot those and do something about it.  I too found out about cysts the hard way when a mare was scanned as in foal until they realized too late that they were looking at a cyst; another month wasted.


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## Meowy Catkin (23 January 2015)

How heartbreaking. I'm very sorry it happened. Can you ask to always have the boss out for future scans that are checking for twins?


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## JanetGeorge (23 January 2015)

Faracat said:



			How heartbreaking. I'm very sorry it happened. Can you ask to always have the boss out for future scans that are checking for twins?
		
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I go a step forward now.  If MY vet (who happens to be the senior vet) is on holidays when I want scanning done, I call in vets from a senior equine specialist firm from a further 40 miles away.  It costs - but having found a mare 63 days in foal with twins after being scanned twice by the 2nd in command, I'm not risking it again!

So sorry Rollin!


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## angrovestud (23 January 2015)

Oh Rollin how totally gutting I am sorry to hear such sad news


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## Spring Feather (23 January 2015)

I'm so sorry.  It's awful when they lose them at this late stage.


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## Rollin (23 January 2015)

Thank you everyone.  This forum is very therapeutic - you all understand how awful I feel.

This mare wasn't scanned by the female who mistook the pregnancy for a cyst.  We had a new vet who trained in French Canada and was very good.  Keeping an eye open for laminitis now as the vet thinks there is a small amount of retained placenta.


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## Meowy Catkin (23 January 2015)

I hope she's OK.


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## Peregrine Falcon (23 January 2015)

So sorry to hear that.  Fingers crossed mare is ok.


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## AMW (24 January 2015)

So sorry to read this. Our mare aborted twins last week, she was also due in April. She had been scanned and the twins had been missed. I know exactly how you're feeling x


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## gingerarab (24 January 2015)

That is a terrible shame, sorry for your loss


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## PorkChop (24 January 2015)

How utterly awful - I hope your mare is alright x


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## Rollin (24 January 2015)

AMW I am so sorry to hear that you too have lost a foal. It is so hard after the months of waiting.  x  I hope your mare is OK - will you try again?

I wonder how many twins are missed?  There have been questions on this forum before about twinning.


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## Peregrine Falcon (24 January 2015)

AMW, sorry for your loss too.

How are both of your mares?


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## AMW (25 January 2015)

Our mare has had a tough time. Had to be flushed out, then her milk came in which I was surprised about as they were so early. She was very swollen and sore. Had to get vet a couple more times to her, painkillers and antibiotics. She is getting back to herself now but it's been tough. X


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## Pinkvboots (25 January 2015)

That is so sad very sorry for your loss.


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## hobo (25 January 2015)

48 hours later I hope Mare is well very sad for you. I guess the only good thing is that at least you know why she aborted. I hope you have other foals due and safe arrivals for them.

Years ago when I starting out in dairying I was puzzled as to why the herdsman said another good cow ruined when she had twins. Though cows cope better than horses it usually means problems getting them back in calf. If you have mixed twins the heifer of the pair is no use. We have just had 4 sets of twins by one bull we will NOT be using him again.


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## Rollin (25 January 2015)

AMW a friend emailed me last night to say watch her bag and treat as for weaning.  She seems OK, is on anti-biotics, no signs of laminitis in coronet band.

She has got plenty of milk so we are watching for mastitis.

We always wean our foals slowly over a month, so mastitis has never been a problem before.  My friend has recommended an oral remedy but it needs to be purchased in the UK.

I have another foal due in April and have a lovely clean rested paddock, with lovely grass, which should have had two mares and foals.


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## Rollin (25 January 2015)

Hobo,  Interesting to read your post about twinning in cows.

Last years twins, (pinched) and this years were by different stallions.  The sire of this lost pregnancy(my Cleveland Stallion) has produced about 7 quality foals, another due in April.


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## Rollin (25 January 2015)

A PS, I will ask my friend in Scotland who has a suckler herd, I am sure she has cows who have twinned several times.


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## popsdosh (25 January 2015)

My sucklers twin with about 10% of the cows . They can be more difficult to get back in calf . I tend to sell one of the calves as they never do so well and can drag the cow down to much. They also have a tendency to kill each other in the calving process so you have to be on the ball. As was stated above mixed sex twins 90% of the females will be infertile which is due to hormones from the male moving to the female across the placenta.
I actually had a first last year  I had my first set of triplets after about 15,000 calvings. My vet had never seen a live set before. I did keep them together as pets in the orchard luckily for them they were all girls so can go in the breeding herd
that was the most spoilt cow I have ever had lol.Fingers crossed she is back in calf!


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## Rollin (25 January 2015)

So the question now is how difficult is it for a mare who has twinned to conceive again?

Actually in France the National Stud has had excellent data on fertility for many years.  This is because ALL horses in France must be  registered on the NED called SIRE, all coverings, live births and abortions must also be recorded.

I will try and find out if information is available on twinnings.


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## JanetGeorge (25 January 2015)

I have had beween 2 and 5 mares conceived twins every year - it's rarely a problem (at least in my experience) of getting them back in foal - although we rarely have twins go on - they're normally caught at between 14 & 17 days.  And the vast majority foal a single then.

We DID have one caught very late (65 days) due to incompetence - but also managed to keep it going as a single.


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## popsdosh (25 January 2015)

Rollin said:



			So the question now is how difficult is it for a mare who has twinned to conceive again?

Actually in France the National Stud has had excellent data on fertility for many years.  This is because ALL horses in France must be  registered on the NED called SIRE, all coverings, live births and abortions must also be recorded.

I will try and find out if information is available on twinnings.
		
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In cattle the main reason there is fertility issues with twinning is due to the cow raising two calves and the demands on her physically one of the reasons I usually split them up.

I really dont see it being a problem in horses!
My vet is very thorough with twin scanning in the mares and checks twice 2 days apart just to be sure. It is difficult to blame a vet if they miss twins as they are quite good at hiding sometimes. Its like a lot of things 25 yrs ago we could do nothing about it now we expect it right 100%


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## AMW (25 January 2015)

This was our market's third attempt, each time we have got her in foal, scanned and then she loses somewhere along the way. We actually had her on regumate on the vets advice to try and get her to go to term. We are wondering if she has been pregnant with twins each time. We are going to try her again this year so fingers crossed. 
Her milk is drying up now and she seems a lot happier x


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## AMW (25 January 2015)

Sorry meant mares , predictive text &#128513;


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## Peregrine Falcon (25 January 2015)

I am glad both mares are doing well at present.  Sometimes nature is unkind for the right reasons.  Difficult to accept at times though.


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## Clodagh (26 January 2015)

So sorry for you both, it must be heartbreaking.


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## popsdosh (26 January 2015)

Peregrine Falcon said:



			I am glad both mares are doing well at present.  Sometimes nature is unkind for the right reasons.  Difficult to accept at times though.
		
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So much agree with this !!! Sorry to sound negative AMW sometimes you have to listen to what nature is trying to tell you.


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## Rollin (26 January 2015)

I do agree that sometimes you need to listen to nature, but this mare has always conceived after one cycle.  In fact I sent a CB mare and a Shagya to the Shagya stallion Tatianus in March.

The stallion owner told me it was too early in the year...but if I was happy to pay the livery.  They both came into season within one week and both scanned in foal.

The last mare whose twin was pinched out, is a much loved CB mare who went to stud in Scotland, and after 4 cycles with frozen semen and a huge vet bill, she failed to conceive.

She too went to Tatianus, in France and after four cycles of natural covering failed to conceive.

Here on our own stud she was covered just once on Day 3 by our own Shagya stallion and scanned to twins.  She produced a lovely foal.  I would not give up but might think of doing something different next time.

Here she is.


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## Mega (29 January 2015)

So sorry to hear that you must be devastated. (((((((Hugs))))))) to you and your mare


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## Hurricanelady (30 January 2015)

Rollin I'm so very sorry to hear this very sad news, it must be so upsetting. I hope she is recovering.


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## JCWHITE (31 January 2015)

Sorry to hear of your loss and hope the mare is recovering, 
I am late to this thread, being in at Cheval Passion in Avignon last weekend, where I thought of you when we saw Shagya stallions in thier boxes, (dont ask me which ones as the Mistrale was doing its best to blow the whole show away).
Wishing you well, having had two foals abort, one on New Years Eve Millenium 2000, I know how you are feeling. My view at the time was that my mare was alive.
Good luck to you


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## dizzyneddy (31 January 2015)

Nothing really to add to what everyone else as said other than to send hugs & vibes.


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## Victoria25 (10 February 2015)

Such sad news &#8211; how is your mare doing?? Is she OK? 

My mare went the whole full term. She originally had twins but one was pinched at an early stage. She then had to stay at the stud as the next scan showed a problem with the fluid but was then allowed home when all went back to normal. Over the next few months we took numerous photos/videos watching her stomach move around seeing limbs etc &#8211; for her to be born deformed (mouth/gums hadn&#8217;t developed) I was absolutely devastated as it was her first foal and my much loved mummy was very ill afterwards &#8211; at one she point she completely collapsed on the floor and I thought I&#8217;d lost her &#8230; it&#8217;s just so upsetting! x


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## Rollin (10 February 2015)

Poor Victoria, your story is even more sad than mine.  Awful to almost lose your mare as well.  I hope she is recovering.

Thank you to all of you who have responded.  Our mare is better.  The vet did a good job evacuating the placenta and the reduction of feed and antibiotics worked, so no ill effects.  She is a lovely mare to care for.

I am now deciding whether we put her back in foal this year, we normally don't foal our mares every year, and which stallion CB or Shagya.


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## Alec Swan (11 February 2015)

I understand your sense of loss,  Rollin.  We lost a foal at 35 hours of age,  despite the best of veterinary and Stud farm care.  A bereft and empty mare is such a pitiful sight,  isn't it?   Over many years of farming sheep,  there have been countless losses of lambs,  and the saddest sight is to have a ewe wandering aimlessly about,  calling for her departed lamb.  I hate it.  It's a little different for you as your mare didn't go full term,  but she may just as well have done,  for the effect.  You're not alone.

Small consolation,  but we do bounce back,  eventually.

Alec.


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## Victoria25 (11 February 2015)

Good to hear Rollin - glad she's feeling better! 

The vet came out that morning - flushed her out etc and did the usual and although she wasn't eating, she was still happy to walk about. Then in the afternoon, she just went down - as in flat out - really heavy breathing - eyes closed then she kind of breathed really deeply in and stopped ... I honestly hand on heart thought she had died - I literally jumped on her screaming and I think I shocked her that much she leapt up all wide eyed then within seconds was stood at hey haylage scoffing! Then I just sat and cried! But she's been fine since luckily.


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## Rollin (11 February 2015)

Alec Swan said:



			I understand your sense of loss,  Rollin.  We lost a foal at 35 hours of age,  despite the best of veterinary and Stud farm care.  A bereft and empty mare is such a pitiful sight,  isn't it?   Over many years of farming sheep,  there have been countless losses of lambs,  and the saddest sight is to have a ewe wandering aimlessly about,  calling for her departed lamb.  I hate it.  It's a little different for you as your mare didn't go full term,  but she may just as well have done,  for the effect.  You're not alone.

Small consolation,  but we do bounce back,  eventually.

Alec.
		
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You are so right.  Years ago there was a fascinating TV documentary following a vet in Scotland.  I remember after he helped with a difficult calving and delivered a healthy calf, he said, it is so important for the cow as she derives so much pleasure from her baby.

One of my mares, in pain and  halfway through delivery was calling to her foal still wrapped in placenta.


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## GemG (11 February 2015)

Rollin said:



			You are so right.  Years ago there was a fascinating TV documentary following a vet in Scotland.  I remember after he helped with a difficult calving and delivered a healthy calf, he said, it is so important for the cow as she derives so much pleasure from her baby.

One of my mares, in pain and  halfway through delivery was calling to her foal still wrapped in placenta.
		
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It might seem strange to compare with human birth, but I can only go from personal experience that all the trauma and pain throughout the birthing process melts  away when you get to hold close and smell your newborn bundle.  ...we are not so different from our animal counterparts.  Lovely to see that vet you mentioned above refers to this maternal instinct in the programme.

It's so sad when things don't go the way they ought to, human or indeed animal.


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## Peregrine Falcon (11 February 2015)

Sorry for your mare's loss Victoria25.  

Pleased to hear that your mare is doing well Rollin.


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