# Ridiculously high head carriage



## Pony180 (14 November 2012)

I've just taken on a hunter on loan and he's a lovely chap generally. However, his head cariage is ridiculously high and in canter he's flinging it back so violently that i'm having to duck & dive to stop him smashing me in the face. I have tried different bits and a standing martingale and last night used draw reins to see if he was using it as an evasion but he managed to rip even those out of my hands...
I have spoken to his owner who says he doesn't usually do it but his previous loaner (of 6 weeks) said she had issues with it too. He hasn't hunted in a while although used to be a whips horse. He is getting on a bit too and as far as I can ascertain there aren't any physical issues. I know I have relatively good hands and am very lightweight for him. 
Anyone got any ideas as he'll have to go back if I can't sort it out, can't hunt like this!!


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## kirstykate (14 November 2012)

Whats he like on the lunge?


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## Pony180 (14 November 2012)

To be honest I haven't been able to try... I haven't got a school atm and my fields are so deep & muddy i'd be asking for trouble to even try it. What would you be looking for?


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## kirstykate (14 November 2012)

I have sent you a PM.  Have you had his teeth checked?


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## YasandCrystal (14 November 2012)

It sounds like a tooth issue to me too.


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## Amymay (14 November 2012)

Teeth, back......??

Saddle fit?


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## Erray (14 November 2012)

I used to ride a horse like this who was also a whips horse, he's not by any chance a cobby grey?


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## Pony180 (15 November 2012)

Erray said:



			I used to ride a horse like this who was also a whips horse, he's not by any chance a cobby grey?
		
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No he's not, opposite in fact!! How did you cope/ what did you do? I really like the horse and don't want to send him home really but not sure how I will ride him hunting! 
Teeth being checked today to make sure even though it has been done apparently... back is fine!


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## Amymay (15 November 2012)

How do you know that the back is fine - has it been checked by a professional?

What about the fit of his saddle?


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## Pony180 (15 November 2012)

amymay said:



			How do you know that the back is fine - has it been checked by a professional?

What about the fit of his saddle?
		
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Yes and saddle is fine.


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## YasandCrystal (15 November 2012)

Pony180 said:



			No he's not, opposite in fact!! How did you cope/ what did you do? I really like the horse and don't want to send him home really but not sure how I will ride him hunting! 
Teeth being checked today to make sure even though it has been done apparently... back is fine!

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Sorry but if he 'doesn't usually do this' then something is going on. Have you checked the bit -I know that may sound obvious, but everything needs to be eliminated. 

My mare was like this and she had seen a dentist prior to me getting her - I got the SAME dentist to her - no improvement. It took 8 months and an ET therapist to say that categorically there was something wrong with my mare's mouth and I got another dentist out to find that yes she has a 2mm razor sharp piece in her bottom molar set which cut her everytime she placed her head horizontally - poor mare.

So get a good dentist out would be my advice as my old one missed this twice after knowing the problems I was having with high head carriage too 
Another factor to consider is are you significantly heavier than the owner?  Sometimes back problems do not present themselves with for example a 7 stone rider but with a 10 stone one the horse reacts.


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## Pony180 (15 November 2012)

YasandCrystal said:



			Sorry but if he 'doesn't usually do this' then something is going on. Have you checked the bit -I know that may sound obvious, but everything needs to be eliminated. 

My mare was like this and she had seen a dentist prior to me getting her - I got the SAME dentist to her - no improvement. It took 8 months and an ET therapist to say that categorically there was something wrong with my mare's mouth and I got another dentist out to find that yes she has a 2mm razor sharp piece in her bottom molar set which cut her everytime she placed her head horizontally - poor mare.

So get a good dentist out would be my advice as my old one missed this twice after knowing the problems I was having with high head carriage too 
Another factor to consider is are you significantly heavier than the owner?  Sometimes back problems do not present themselves with for example a 7 stone rider but with a 10 stone one the horse reacts.
		
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I know something is wrong hence asking for advice, i've not come across this sort of reaction before. I have changed bits, he came in a vulcanite pelham so immediately reverted to a KK ultra and have tried other mouthpieces and actions. 
I have my regular EDT looking at him today as I want to make sure it is checked properly. 
I am significantly lighter than his previous riders, he is 16.2 and I weigh about 8 stone so would hope i'm not the problem 
Fingers crossed I can let you all know the result later!!!


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## Amymay (15 November 2012)

What was the physio's opinion when they checked his back?  Did they also look at the fit of the saddle?


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## YasandCrystal (15 November 2012)

Pony180 said:



			I know something is wrong hence asking for advice, i've not come across this sort of reaction before. I have changed bits, he came in a vulcanite pelham so immediately reverted to a KK ultra and have tried other mouthpieces and actions. 
I have my regular EDT looking at him today as I want to make sure it is checked properly. 
I am significantly lighter than his previous riders, he is 16.2 and I weigh about 8 stone so would hope i'm not the problem 
Fingers crossed I can let you all know the result later!!!
		
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Sorry I wasn't being funny just poorly worded - I know you are asking for advice. I hope you get to the bottom of it. It will be interesting to hear the outcome.


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## Pony180 (15 November 2012)

Physio couldn't find anything which would cause such an extreme reaction, just that he was a bit weak and had expected tension through his neck. Saddle is a nice fit and no nasties when ridden either hence thinking it's not back related...


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## JenHunt (15 November 2012)

IME a number of hunters go like this to some extent, and it's because a lot of people don't try to correct the horse when he's going hollow out hunting. I'm not saying necessarily that means we should all be getting horses going in a correct outline out hunting, and I for one would get a major strop from Ron if I tried!

If you can be certain you have done all you can to find any acute problems (i.e back/teeth/saddle etc) then you may need to consider that it's something more "chronic" or at least more inherent that's been disguised by his fitness up till now. If he's not hunted for a while then it may be that of fitness has casued a weakness in his back that is exacerbated by his natural way of going, and the change in owners/living arrangements may be causing him to be more tense.

I don't think that's something that will be easily corrected, but can you do lots of transitions out hacking, and ride hime forwards into a contact to encourage him to lower his head and work through his back? Over time it will make it easier for him to lift his back and drop his head as everything strengthens up. And once you are able to lunge him, then lots of long low work will help too.


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## Doogal (15 November 2012)

My horse has a naturally high head carriage but with schooling and time it has improved as he has become more supple, but it is still his 'go to' when tense/upset/ being evasive etc.

He recently started doing it again in canter for no apparent reason, through trial and error I have found that lowering my hands, carrying them a little wider and lengthening my reins a couple of inches whilst using loads of inside leg seems to help him drop his head and work over his back into the contact - But appreciate this is in an arena - not out hunting!!


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## Ditchjumper2 (15 November 2012)

You say that you changed his bit....was this becuase of the high head carriage? Does he do it in the pelham? Whips horses generally are going forward at all times whilst being ridden one handed!


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## EAST KENT (15 November 2012)

Surely a runing or standing martingale is the answer until the problem is nailed?


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## Vulpinator (16 November 2012)

Pony180 said:



			I've just taken on a hunter on loan and he's a lovely chap generally. However, his head cariage is ridiculously high and in canter he's flinging it back so violently that i'm having to duck & dive to stop him smashing me in the face. I have tried different bits and a standing martingale and last night used draw reins to see if he was using it as an evasion but he managed to rip even those out of my hands...
I have spoken to his owner who says he doesn't usually do it but his previous loaner (of 6 weeks) said she had issues with it too. He hasn't hunted in a while although used to be a whips horse. He is getting on a bit too and as far as I can ascertain there aren't any physical issues. I know I have relatively good hands and am very lightweight for him. 
Anyone got any ideas as he'll have to go back if I can't sort it out, can't hunt like this!!

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Ive had and still use a gelderlander which has very high natural head carrige I tried all sorts of stuff and rigging and settled nicely with a waterford and a leather rounding in the same position as you would use a curb chain it alters the action and lowers the head light hands will help and a hunting breast plate just be nice to him and you will sort it out


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