# Arena - membrane required?



## Ingramah (11 January 2008)

I am about to submit planning permission for an arena (probably using a wood fibre product rather than sand).  Having spoken to many people locally, I am advised that it is not necessary to use a membrane.  In fact, a number of people have encountered problems with the membrane rising after a period of use.  This is in spite of using the services of professionals to lay drainage pipes, lay the hardcore and membrane.  Has anyone any experience, negative or positive, on this subject?  I'd also be interested in any experience of using wood fibre as an alternative to sand.  Thanks in advance for any replies.


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## Law (11 January 2008)

Hello 
You can get away without using a membrane if you have exceptionally good drainage. We've got a membrane and some stones are managing to come up through it.  Another arena I've used doesn't have one and there is probably a little less/the same amount of stone coming up. 
Another different arena that i used which had a sand silicone mix had the membrane coming up dreadfully I don't think the arena was ever maintained. It was just age and wear and tear.  

As for wood fibre... I'm not sure how that differs from wood chip and wood peelings but I can't get on with either of those so would definitely opt for sand if it was me.


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## VLHIEASTON (11 January 2008)

The wood fib has to go on top of some sand, and i wud def recommend membranes as they stop the layers mixing therefore making drainage impossible.We did our own a few years ago.No probs at all and at least we know it has been built properly and that no one has 'done' us.U can't trust folk i'm afraid.


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## pnap (11 January 2008)

I don't have any particular experience in arena construction but I am a civil engineer and would recommend the use of a membrane in order to stop the fines getting into the drainage layer and clogging it up.


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## catherine22 (11 January 2008)

nope, we had one put in when our school was done and had no end of probs with it rising up (the school is well maintained) we even had that taken up and a new one put in instead and it still happened so we have now taken it out completely and dont seem to have any problems. our drainage underneath is very good and doesnt seem to have been affected by having no membrane!


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## saskia295 (11 January 2008)

Please please PLEASE put a membrane down! I have come across 2 arenas now that have not had membranes down. The problem is that stones/rocks/rubbish come up through the surface and make it really not great to ride on. In the first case, the owner just kept putting more and more surface on. In the end it was just so deep and the stones etc still come through, so she had to rip it all up and start again (with a membrane).

The second arena was the same, but the owner didn't put more and more surface on top, she just took all the surface out and put a membrance down, followed by a new surface on top. 

I haven't heard of any membranes coming through so would be interested to hear about that.


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## pnap (11 January 2008)

Pretty much a 50/50 split - don't envy your decision saskia295


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## kerilli (11 January 2008)

you need a base layer membrane to stop the soil coming up and compromising the drainage layer of stones, and some kind of Blinding Layer between the top of the stones of the drainage layer (once they've been vibrating rollered into place so they're completely flat by laser level check), to stop the stones being dislodged (e.g. by a horse stopping at a fence and ploughing deep into the surface), and, as Jacksmyboy says, to stop the fines from the sand getting into the drainage gaps in the stones and clogging it up. all arenas will fail eventually, but using a good membrane can mean your arena will last 20 years, not 2, before the drainage properties are compromised.
you can use tarmac (£££s), ash, or membrane - of which there are many different kinds and thicknesses, and you get what you pay for, basically.
as long as you have enough surface and it compacts down reasonably well, and you use a thick enough membrane, you shouldn't have any problems.
personally, i don't like woodchip, i find it slippery and deep. the only good ones i've ever ridden on were a 1-day old Dormit one, which was wonderful, and an indoor cushionride one. both, obviously, hadn't had a chance to get wet, rotten, slippery, and start breaking down!
i would always go for good sand (subangular particles that hold together) plus good rubber which will float on top, but i realise that this isn't the cheapest option.
PM me if you get stuck on more questions, i've done 3 arenas now and already made most of the mistakes!


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## Thistle (11 January 2008)

from the bottom mine is

subsoil
french drains
membrane
crushed stone
fine gravel vibrated into place
surface (sand and rubber)




most people use a membrane in place of the gravel, this is the one that rises up

My arena has been down 6 years and still drains well.


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## DuckToller (11 January 2008)

If your membrane is laid properly, then it shouldn't come up.  We had a Charles Brittan manage, after having some dubious quotes from friends who fancied having a go at doing one for us!  We asked about having no membrane, and they said it would be hopeless without one as stones would work their way up and the topping would work its way down, so we went with their advice.  

Very very pleased with it, membrane has never moved, it's about ten years old now.  We had granules on the surface, less slippery than wood.


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## MillionDollar (11 January 2008)

Definitely use something!!!

Ours has Teram, it's white and more like a material, fantastic stuff (plus a LOT cheaper than membrane!). It has drains along the whole length of the arena filled with stone. Teram over the whole of the arena, then 9 inches of stone, then Teram over the whole arena again, then 5 inches of silica sand and then finally 3 inches of Spring-Tek rubber.












Also I would really advise against wood fibre  
	
	
		
		
	


	




 I've only heard bad about it.


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## carthorse (11 January 2008)

We had ours done by cushion ride and they used road plainings ,rolled then 8" of wood fibre.It was great for 3 years then started to become mush .I contacted them but they were not very helpful.I know it needs a top up which will cost £1000 but they weren't keen on doing it and one part is now just like mud and they said that now needs a membrane but again I asked for a quote to do the job and never got a reply.I spoke to them at the equine event and they said they would look into it but still never heard anything.I think I would have a membrane but realise that wood chip is cheaper but will need a top up.
It was brilliant for the first 3 years


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## henryhorn (11 January 2008)

We have built two arenas and used membrane each time.
The first one was pure sand over an infill of 15 feet (yes feet not inches) , the base was brick rubble, then hardcore, then smaller stones all tamped down by enormous machines. it cost £15k over 25 years ago, so a lot more in today's money. At the time we didn't know enough about how the membrane worked, and made mistakes.
This time we overlapped a lot, the professionals glue or stitch at every join, and it needs securing by laying under the surrounding sleepers. 
If you don't do this over time what happens is the stones gradually become loose due to the impact on the surface from the weight and hooves, the stones then work up through the surface and cripple your horses.
We haven't got drains and ours today was rideable when all the others locally weren't after torential rain for days. 
All we have is a fall to one corner and it runs out there and away. We had a puddle along that bit and a little water on one part of the track, but that's all.
I can't say strongly enough I would use a membrane, drains, well we seem to have managed without, but when you work out the cost why ruin it for the sake of a few hundred quid? (I sourced mine via internet searches, wasn't a horse site but a manufacturer who recommended one of his products)
Our surface is some silica sand , rubber chips and lots of padstow sea sand., it is near enough perfect to ride on apart from in summer can get a bit dry.


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## Ingramah (12 January 2008)

Thanks to everyone who has replied and especially to those who've gone to the extra trouble of sending photos.  It's given me a lot to think about and the consensus seems to be to err on the side of caution and lay a membrane.  Once again, many thanks.


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## not_with_it (12 January 2008)

At our yard we have had our arena down about 6 years, with no membrane. We were advised not to have membrane and the drainage is fantastic, it never goes boggy evn after the biggest downpour (or whe everywhere else is flooding). We have the odd stone come to the top but thats it. If you dont have a membrane just make sure it is rolled really well at each stage. Our drainage pipes are wrapped in membrane though.


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