# Experiences with antis whilst hunting



## sparrowfree (8 January 2014)

Hi,

I'm doing some research for a project I'm doing at undergraduate level at university and wondering if you could help. It's only a minor project, so the only people reading it will be myself and the marker. You will remain completely anonymous. 

I'm looking for any of your experiences with antis whilst out hunting; verbal/physical abuse, or just hiding behind bushes filming, etc. 

And on a side note, do you feel that you have ever been stereotyped because you hunt?

If you want to include the name of the hunt you were following when you had any experiences that would be great, but if you don't want to say then that's absolutely fine. 

Many thanks, this is a big help 

I have also posted this in the hunting forum, just trying to reach as many people as possible.


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## StarlightMagic (8 January 2014)

Lots of verbal abuse, filming children (really quite young children at that!) but nothing physical I've seen! They have trespassed onto the farmers land to try and get footage, despite being asked to return to the public rights of way. This is IOW foxhounds.


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## thatsmygirl (8 January 2014)

Iv only had verbal abuse on the way to a Boxing Day meet, a few hundred yards from the meet on the sea front I had a couple shouting " scum" " you should be ashamed of yourself" " murderer" I politely said i have a spare horse if you would like to actually see what hunting is like. This was with the axe vale hunt


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## Partridg3 (8 January 2014)

I only follow on foot but last time a van joined in between the followers and whilst we all stopped to watch the hunt in a field 6/7 people jumped out in camo gear and balaclavas and ran into the field (regular followers had already clocked who they were). As the hunt and we moved off onto totally private land somewhat later they reappeared behind us. The field were a short distance away grouped together quietly and as the hounds found (sorry don't know official terminology yet!) the antis started sounding their horns which totally threw the hounds and the fox took advantage. At this point there seemed to be only us followers and the antis with their horns so we were running in one direction making horn like noises being but we were totally overpowered, they must've had 6 horns and were blowing them full blast and the hounds turned tail and actually left with the antis. Obe hunt, no hounds. One of the hunt went and fetched them back and the police were called by the hunt and they attended for the rest of the day.
It was starting to get quite fraught by this stage.


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## vieshot (8 January 2014)

I remember some turning up on a drag hunt. What a waste of their time? It was children's day too so most of the field were kids or teens. One of them fell over trying to keep up with the ponies. Oh how I laughed


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## Crosshill Pacers (8 January 2014)

We don't get much in the way of abuse as we're very rural and hunt mostly open hill or farmland (obviously with permission) and most people in the area either support us or let us be, HOWEVER at meets in one town which is located on the main road we get lorries/cars blowing their horns/letting off air brakes which thankfully hasn't caused much of a problem as everybody's horses are pretty bombproof, but I wonder what's going through their minds as they do it when there's young children on ponies present.

Also earlier this season one gentleman who has moved into the area came out onto the hill we were on with his camera and started taking photos of us. The decision was made to move off the hill however he followed us all and continued to take photos (I was chaperoning four young girls away from him as he had been taking photos of them too). Once the horses had left he confronted my parents who were in a vehicle, taking photos in their faces and of the vehicle registration. My mum asked him to stop repeatedly but he continued to take photos up close in her face; he then called the police and alleged that my dad had punched him (he hadn't, there were two other people present who can verify this), then turned on the two others present and told them they couldn't be there (as it was a common, they had every right to, especially as one lad was a farmer who has grazing rights for it). He further alleged over the phone to the police that someone on a horse had 'attempted to run him down' and that we were illegally hunting. In reality it was a trail hunt and one mounted rider had simply ridden up to him and asked him to stop taking photos of the children. The police actually sent two vehicles out to see him, by which time we'd long moved on, and I think that's a massive waste of police time and taxpayers' resources.

ETA: With regard to the stereotyping, some people think I'm a bit stuck up because they have this view that hunting is for 'toffs'. We're essentially a farmers hunt; as one farmer/racehorse trainer who hunts with us put it, 'we ride to hunt, not hunt to ride'!


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## Marydoll (8 January 2014)

Would this not be better in hunting ?


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## sparrowfree (8 January 2014)

mary christmas said:



			Would this not be better in hunting ?
		
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Please note the comment at the end of my post. I have also posted it in Hunting but felt that it would be seen more here, and therefore gain more responses. 

Thank you everyone for your experiences so far!


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## paulineh (8 January 2014)

Interesting SarahThomas. Taking photography's of children without their parents permission is an affence and the police can do something about that.

As a photographer I always need to watch what I'm taking. Taking a picture with a child in the back ground is different but knowing and taking close up pictures is wrong.


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## Marydoll (8 January 2014)

sparrowfree said:



			Please note the comment at the end of my post. I have also posted it in Hunting but felt that it would be seen more here, and therefore gain more responses. 

Thank you everyone for your experiences so far!
		
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My apologies, i mustve skimmed and missed it


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## Crosshill Pacers (8 January 2014)

paulineh said:



			Interesting SarahThomas. Taking photography's of children without their parents permission is an affence and the police can do something about that.

As a photographer I always need to watch what I'm taking. Taking a picture with a child in the back ground is different but knowing and taking close up pictures is wrong.
		
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Indeed, which is why I made a quick move to get the girls off the hill (they innocently were smiling and waving at him) and another person requested that he stop doing so. My dad also made this point loudly whilst the gentleman was on the phone to the police, but I believe my parents had moved off by the time the police actually turned up so nobody took it any further. My mum was actually quite upset that he continued to take close up photos of her despite her asking him to stop, because he was definitely trying to provoke a reaction from her and my dad.


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## CrazyMare (8 January 2014)

I've never had any do anything to me personally, but one threatened to punch my Dad once. Quite why as Dad is quite a physically intimidating size and build, I don't know!

Often had police cars/helicopters out!!


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## dogatemysalad (8 January 2014)

paulineh said:



			Interesting SarahThomas. Taking photography's of children without their parents permission is an affence and the police can do something about that.

As a photographer I always need to watch what I'm taking. Taking a picture with a child in the back ground is different but knowing and taking close up pictures is wrong.
		
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Er, no, it's not. there is no law about taking pictures of children in public.


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## Kathyt (8 January 2014)

or anything in public for that matter.  I think the argument here would be that he was causing you distress by his intimidating behaviour.


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## marianne1981 (8 January 2014)

It did make me smile, the post about the sabs taking the hounds, leaving a hunt without hounds! You have to admit, that is pretty clever! I have heard some pro hunters say that some of the sabs blow the horn so beautifully, that they put the master to shame!


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## Alec Swan (8 January 2014)

marianne1981 said:



			It did make me smile, the post about the sabs taking the hounds, leaving a hunt without hounds! You have to admit, that is pretty clever! I have heard some pro hunters say that some of the sabs blow the horn so beautifully, that they put the master to shame!
		
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How I agree with you,  and especially when hounds are called across public highways by your heros,  and into the path of traffic.  Such elegance,  and such acclaim.

I'd suggest that you take your ill thought through applause elsewhere.


Alec.


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## Partridg3 (8 January 2014)

At the time, being new to all this, I actually felt a bit vulnerable. There were only a few straggling walking (older!) followers and a load of hounds and 6/7 folk in balaclavas. There was no humour at all it was seriously unpleasant with one of the antis laughing maniacally during it. We did have a minor win when we got the hounds together and away with just voices and whistles (hard work) but it was no match to them once they really started. I actually thought it was going to get extremely physical at one point. 
I think the hunt played it perfectly upon reflection as they stood still out the way and didn't play into the provocation.


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## marianne1981 (8 January 2014)

Alec, I am not getting into the rights and wrongs of it- I just think it is very clever, of anyone, if they could blow the horn like that.


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## Alec Swan (8 January 2014)

marianne1981 said:



			Alec, I am not getting into the rights and wrongs of it- I just think it is very clever, of anyone, if they could blow the horn like that.
		
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Am I to assume from your reply that having offered support to those without moral or rightful argument,  that you're sticking your fingers in your ears,  and offering a la-la-la chorus?  

You think that those who call errant or lost hounds away from their huntsmen,  and with criminal intent,  are "clever'?  Honestly?  

I suspect marianne1981,  that you may be a little unbalanced.

Alec.


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## Countryman (8 January 2014)

I believe that the Cotswold Vale Farmers Hunt had hounds killed by traffic when "saboteurs" used a sound recording and speaker system to call hounds across a busy A-road.

Both Monitors and saboteurs, all round the country, routinely trespass and refuse to leave private property. They frequently grab reins and push horses to try and startle the riders into a reaction that they can film - this is evident in many of their own videos. They have repeatedly filmed children and followers for no reason other than to antagonise people - if they really wanted to monitor the hunting, they would have been filming the hounds! 
Some monitors have "nudged" followers-including children - with their vehicles to get them to hurry up.
Some antis have driven their 4x4's down public bridleways which are not open to traffic. Photos are taken of hunt followers and posted online for vilification. I have had personal experience of these incidents. 

I believe the Mid-Devon have had sabs drive their cars into the backs of horses. 
The Surrey Union had sabs outside the kennels shouting abuse at the staff when they walked the hounds around the paddocks to give them their exercise. A sab was convicted for this.
Verbal abuse is common, with many monitors and sabs, with hateful language often filled with expletives or criticising people's appearances - or that of their children. 
In Yorkshire last year, a hunt Master was targeted at his farm on a non-hunting morning, knocked off his quad bike by a gang of balaclava'd thugs and beaten up - all in front of his young daughter. 
The grave of a Hunt Master was dug up around 9 years ago - they planned to send the head to Princess Anne allegedly to show their displeasure of her hunting.
10 years ago in Kent, a gang of around 50, in balaclavas, attacked the homes of the hunt staff near the kennels at night, forcing their families to flee. There was also an instance of a pack of beagles being stolen. 
In the news recently, two sabs were arrested in Yorkshire for assault and criminal damage.
Others attempt to cause disruption by padlocking gates-disrupting farmers, but also meaning hunt staff cannot get to their hounds, endangering them. 

And of course, in 2009, "peaceable" hunt monitors decapitated a hunt follower in Warwickshire with a gyrocopter...

I have had more personal experiences of anti-hunt monitors with my local hunt-I will PM you.


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## paulineh (8 January 2014)

dogatemysalad said:



			Er, no, it's not. there is no law about taking pictures of children in public.
		
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I think you will find there is. If I go to an event and I know there are children I need to ask the parents. Schools can stop you taking pictures at any event they have.


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## paulineh (8 January 2014)

I once had a pony that when you put pressure just in front of the saddle would kick out. Very useful if the antis were around. If I was ever challenged I would always say that horses are unpredictable.


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## Countryman (8 January 2014)

paulineh said:



			I think you will find there is. If I go to an event and I know there are children I need to ask the parents. Schools can stop you taking pictures at any event they have.
		
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While schools may not let you take pictures on the premises, if you have a right to be where you are e.g on a public road, unfortunately there is no law stopping you taking pictures of what you can reasonably see from that position - even of children.


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## wench (9 January 2014)

I have just experienced the general stuff:

They turn up wearing balaclavas. Then proceed to ride their motorbike across the farmers crops, whilst the hunt is very politely going around the fields on the farm track.

Taking pictures of small children out following the hunt, and intimidating them and making them cry. Whilst out hunting in a woods (where there are tracks we go down that are just over one horse's width), laying down on the path in-between the hounds and the field. That has to be a very stupid thing to do.

Best one I had was one of these morons was stood next to the path in the woods, clothed from head to foot in black. I knew my horse would spook violently at seeing this person. My prediction was correct - Henry jumped about three foot sideways, admittedly it was away from the anti, but the anti was that scared when she saw Henry jumping, she jumped in the other direction.

As for playing a horn, anyone that plays a brass instrument can play one. I can certainly get a better tune out of a horn than some hunt staff I know - so it's not really a very clever trick after all!


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## Double_choc_lab (9 January 2014)

Countryman said:



			The grave of a Hunt Master was dug up around 9 years ago - they planned to send the head to Princess Anne allegedly to show their displeasure of her hunting.

Countryman - I'm afraid it's a case of "time flies".  The attempt to dig up the Duke of Beauforts grave was Boxing Day morning 1984 - I remember it well as I was with a friend  who was called in to investigate.  Horrific incident but back in the 80s it was a time of very  volatile sabbing.
		
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## Potato! (9 January 2014)

Countryman said:



			I believe that the Cotswold Vale Farmers Hunt had hounds killed by traffic when "saboteurs" used a sound recording and speaker system to call hounds across a busy A-road.

Both Monitors and saboteurs, all round the country, routinely trespass and refuse to leave private property. They frequently grab reins and push horses to try and startle the riders into a reaction that they can film - this is evident in many of their own videos. They have repeatedly filmed children and followers for no reason other than to antagonise people - if they really wanted to monitor the hunting, they would have been filming the hounds! 
Some monitors have "nudged" followers-including children - with their vehicles to get them to hurry up.
Some antis have driven their 4x4's down public bridleways which are not open to traffic. Photos are taken of hunt followers and posted online for vilification. I have had personal experience of these incidents. 

I believe the Mid-Devon have had sabs drive their cars into the backs of horses. 
The Surrey Union had sabs outside the kennels shouting abuse at the staff when they walked the hounds around the paddocks to give them their exercise. A sab was convicted for this.
Verbal abuse is common, with many monitors and sabs, with hateful language often filled with expletives or criticising people's appearances - or that of their children. 
In Yorkshire last year, a hunt Master was targeted at his farm on a non-hunting morning, knocked off his quad bike by a gang of balaclava'd thugs and beaten up - all in front of his young daughter. 
The grave of a Hunt Master was dug up around 9 years ago - they planned to send the head to Princess Anne allegedly to show their displeasure of her hunting.
10 years ago in Kent, a gang of around 50, in balaclavas, attacked the homes of the hunt staff near the kennels at night, forcing their families to flee. There was also an instance of a pack of beagles being stolen. 
In the news recently, two sabs were arrested in Yorkshire for assault and criminal damage.
Others attempt to cause disruption by padlocking gates-disrupting farmers, but also meaning hunt staff cannot get to their hounds, endangering them. 

And of course, in 2009, "peaceable" hunt monitors decapitated a hunt follower in Warwickshire with a gyrocopter...

I have had more personal experiences of anti-hunt monitors with my local hunt-I will PM you.
		
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I go out with the Mid devon and can vouch for the fact that Anti's have run the terrier man off the road, driven into the horses and caused all sorts of issues. The last meet i attened on horse back  their were police in attedance at the meet as they had recieved a tip off that there was going to trouble. I have decided that the risk is now too great as i tend to come away fairly early and feel too vunerable.


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## MiJodsR2BlinkinTite (9 January 2014)

Some years ago; and I'd rather not mention the hunt TBH but those that were out that day would no doubt remember it............ there was an incident where some people who were NOT known to be followers (putting it as succinctly as possible here) were seen with an animal in a small box, something similar to a large cat box. No-one had a clue what they were doing - but several people remarked on what was in there and speculated as to what it was. No-one knew what the animal was - and hounds were about a quarter of a mile away; attempts were being made to draw them away from the place where they were (trees/covert) as it was very close to a busy main road.

Suddenly there was all hell let loose; someone holloa'd ................ it all happened incredibly quickly. One minute hounds were being called away, to a safer place, the next minute someone had said they'd seen a fox on the loose - where previously there was all peace and quiet and hounds were being gently ushered away. No sign of the fox before this, hounds hadn't scented it. Then suddenly, right close to a busy dual carriageway, there was a fox.

And the box that some people had seen with a "creature" in it???? Clean gone and the people with it no-where to be seen.

Imagine the carnage that would have ensued had it not been for the very skillful whipping-in and expertise of the hunt staff on this occasion - and how pleasing for the LACS to say that hounds had chased some poor fox onto a busy dual carriageway. Never mind the hounds, and very likely people, that would have met their end along with it.

I know people who were there on this occasion; and all of them verified that this actually happened.


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## Isbister (9 January 2014)

I used to hunt on foot with a pack of beagles in the late 70s to early 80s and from time to time there was some quite unpleasant business in those days - ugly confrontations on private land with a lot of unpleasant aggravation which, had extreme restraint not been exercised on our part, could definitely have become very violent indeed. I don't know when hunt-sabbing first started, but it had been going on a long time already back then. The sabbs travelled quite considerable distances to cause trouble, but never seemed very well dressed for the weather, somehow.

The key then - as now - was secrecy about the meet. Of course they tried following various individuals to and from where they lived, so sometimes decoys and subterfuge had to be used.

My impression now is that they are rather less of a problem, but perhaps that just depends where you hunt.


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## Countryman (9 January 2014)

Double_choc_lab said:





Countryman said:



			The grave of a Hunt Master was dug up around 9 years ago - they planned to send the head to Princess Anne allegedly to show their displeasure of her hunting.

Countryman - I'm afraid it's a case of "time flies".  The attempt to dig up the Duke of Beauforts grave was Boxing Day morning 1984 - I remember it well as I was with a friend  who was called in to investigate.  Horrific incident but back in the 80s it was a time of very  volatile sabbing.
		
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Ah very true yes sorry. Animal Rights activists haven't lost their taste for such behaviour though - I mixed up that incident with this one http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2006/may/11/animalwelfare.world

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## fburton (10 January 2014)

Countryman said:



			While schools may not let you take pictures on the premises, if you have a right to be where you are e.g on a public road, unfortunately there is no law stopping you taking pictures of what you can reasonably see from that position - even of children.
		
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Why is it unfortunate? Basic civil liberty, I'd have thought. Where is the harm?


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## marianne1981 (10 January 2014)

I do not agree with hounds being called across the road, and I very much doubt true hunt sabs would do that. I was of the opinion that actual hunt sabs try to disrupt the hunt tactically, such as spraying strong smells to make scenting impossible/more difficult. Of the hunts I have seen, I saw them at the meets but they stood around in the background, silently. Then just before the hunt moved off you looked again and they had gone. What I did see however was a group of people, not dressed in balaclavas etc at the meet shouting at hunt followers, at a little girl something like "do your friends at school know" etc. They did not seem to be part of the sabs, although who knows. You do have to put this into context though, there is abuse on both sides as hunting is such a emotive issue, for every incident of anti abuse, there is pro abuse too. And no, thanks Alec I am not unbalanced, I certainly could not blow a hunting horn with any meaning in it, hunt sabs learn the right calls, not just blow the horn. You say about the incident about the alleged sabs calling the hounds onto a busy road-what about the many incidents of hounds getting onto railway lines-obviously not trail hunting as who would lay a trail anywhere near a train track? 

I dont mind if my children were to be caught in the background of someone elses photo-as the above poster says, where is the harm-my children are safe at night!


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## ExmoorHunter (10 January 2014)

You would be very welcome, so why not go hunting to see for yourself.


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## MiJodsR2BlinkinTite (10 January 2014)

marianne1981 said:



			I do not agree with hounds being called across the road, and I very much doubt true hunt sabs would do that.
		
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Ehm.......... don't think we both live in the same world hun!!!


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## smathew (10 January 2014)

Many a year ago (when I was of pony club age) I was at a children's meet. About half a hour in and the anti's decided it would be great sport to try and spook horses in any way possible. 

I remember them hiding behind the hunt jumps and jumping up as children approached - sending horse and rider in different directions.

How the adults kept their temper as well as they did I don't know :-/


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## marianne1981 (11 January 2014)

Exmoor Hunter I would actually really love to try going out draghunting or with the Coakham Bloodhounds, I have always loved the image of the hunt and all the traditions of it-just not the actual bloody ending.


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## kentridingclubber (11 January 2014)

MiJodsR2BlinkinTite said:



			Ehm.......... don't think we both live in the same world hun!!! 

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thought quite the same.

mid nineties I had to give chase to two loose horses bolting flat out (they were big hunters, so really flat out) down the road. riders had been dragged off by Sabs.
they ran straight over a busy A road. how there were no casualties I will never know. same meet they sprayed the childrens faces. 

I have been bibbed at by traffic....on a MOCK hunt !!! no hounds!!!! ignorance knows no bounds.

recently following we were stopped by a regular bird watcher in the area who informed me we were hunting illegally 'you know'. interestingly, as he was waffling on, a fox ran straight past the hounds, whom did not defer from the trail even a step out of place. another person that needs educating!

I am all for people having their beliefs but I am yet to meet, or read the opinion of, an anti that is based on true facts, common sense or proper reason to back up the strength of their belief.

I had never heard of the anti's digging up graves though. and pro hunters are the sick ones. rightyo....


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## VoR (14 January 2014)

Just to add a bit of balance to this, let's not forget that we as a hunting community have had our moments of dishing out abuse to antis, there have been convictions for violence from our side too, yes, there are times when we are goaded and unfortunately we sometimes 'rise to the bait' which is then highly publicized and becomes excellent propaganda for those who oppose us.
The fact is that at times both sides become engaged in playground name calling, maybe we need to rise above that and show we have more restraint and are more adult?
That said, the calling of hounds around busy roads and yes it has happened, deliberate attempts to scare or injure horses and riders, the digging up of graves and the intimidation of those connected with hunts is pretty abhorrent to say the least and does show a disregard for the safety of one animal in the misplaced attempts to 'save' another, the big question therefore is, are they antis in favour of the protection of animals OR are they AGAINST the act of hunting for some other reason?


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## Isbister (14 January 2014)

VoR said:



			... are they antis in favour of the protection of animals OR are they AGAINST the act of hunting for some other reason?
		
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That's a great unknowable. I have no doubt there are some antis who have very sincere, if arguably misconceived, views; there are some who seem to have some obscure resentment with life generally; and there are others who - to put it mildly - are out-and-out trouble-makers.


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## gonebananas (23 January 2014)

This is my first season out and so far luckily have not encounted any anti's or sab type activities *touch wood* nor would I want to meet any of them. I have found facebook pages dedicated too them and their activies  the way they talk make them sound as though they are God's gift and doing a favour. All I see is deluded anger and obsession. They post photos of them attacking meets and show Masters getting angry etc. They also sab a local Beagle meet to me 

ETA: (Stupid question) Does anyone carry or considered carrying pepper spray with them?


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## Moomin1 (23 January 2014)

paulineh said:



			I once had a pony that when you put pressure just in front of the saddle would kick out. Very useful if the antis were around. If I was ever challenged I would always say that horses are unpredictable.
		
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Wow.  Sounds like your pony had a pain issue.

Also extremely irresponsible to actually want to physically harm or even kill someone. :-(


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## ExmoorHunter (24 January 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			Also extremely irresponsible to actually want to physically harm or even kill someone. :-(
		
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This made me choke as it is exactly how some of the antis behave including killing someone!


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## Moomin1 (24 January 2014)

ExmoorHunter said:



			This made me choke as it is exactly how some of the antis behave including killing someone!
		
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Not sure why that should make you choke. Antis behaving that way is just as bad. Two wrongs don't make a right. Why anybody would feel it ok or funny to entice a horse to kick a human being is beyond me. :-(


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## fburton (24 January 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			Not sure why that should make you choke. Antis behaving that way is just as bad. Two wrongs don't make a right. Why anybody would feel it ok or funny to entice a horse to kick a human being is beyond me. :-(
		
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They were joking... surely?! :eek3:


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## RunToEarth (24 January 2014)

marianne1981 said:



			I do not agree with hounds being called across the road, and I very much doubt true hunt sabs would do that.
		
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I would have agreed with you - being that the entire reason they have formed is in the name of stopping cruelty to animals. However as a teenager I was witness to four hunt sabs letting a cattle trailer full of hounds off its bricks to roll down a hill and it ended up injuring one so badly they had to have it pts. 

Humans are the only creatures on this earth with the ability to be evil, and it's both sides of the debate that are guilty.


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## VoR (24 January 2014)

RunToEarth said:



			and it's both sides of the debate that are guilty.
		
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So true and the evil, ill thought out acts are what constantly undermine the arguments of both sides, whoever wins that moral battle might just win the war!

What I would say though is that the HSA/LACS et al are far more skilled in using any of these acts by pro hunters as propaganda than vice versa! We had an 'unfortunate incident' a few years ago, which was actually very minor but if you took your information just from the anti-sources, you'd have thought the 'perpetrator' was public enemy No.1 and should be 'strung-up' for his heinous crime at the very least!!


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## marianne1981 (24 January 2014)

It's interesting that hunting is still one of those hot, emotive subjects, it brings out the best and worst in people and it splits down the middle. Each side has such a different way of thinking and both believe blindly that they are right as much as the other!


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## Darremi (24 January 2014)

gonebananas said:



			This is my first season out and so far luckily have not encounted any anti's or sab type activities *touch wood* nor would I want to meet any of them. I have found facebook pages dedicated too them and their activies  the way they talk make them sound as though they are God's gift and doing a favour. All I see is deluded anger and obsession. They post photos of them attacking meets and show Masters getting angry etc. They also sab a local Beagle meet to me 

ETA: (Stupid question) Does anyone carry or considered carrying pepper spray with them?
		
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Pepper spray is illegal in the UK.


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## gonebananas (25 January 2014)

Darremi said:



			Pepper spray is illegal in the UK.
		
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Oh :S I didn't know that, I thought it was...


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## Bertiehound (21 May 2014)

Can you please give an instance where a sab has been filming young children and why it hasn't been reported to the police?


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## Bertiehound (21 May 2014)

marianne1981 said:



			It's interesting that hunting is still one of those hot, emotive subjects, it brings out the best and worst in people and it splits down the middle. Each side has such a different way of thinking and both believe blindly that they are right as much as the other!
		
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The only important eyes are the law, if your breaking it then it doesn't just become a
Two
Sides battle it becomes a criminal battle.


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## Countryman (21 May 2014)

Bertiehound said:



			Can you please give an instance where a sab has been filming young children and why it hasn't been reported to the police?
		
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On virtually every hunting day. It's unfortunately not actually illegal to film children in public-you do not need anybody's permission and the antis know this. In fact at our hunt when somebody politely requested they did not film their grandson, the antis proceeded to do so repetitively, just to try and wind them up and provoke a reaction.


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## Bertiehound (21 May 2014)

Countryman said:



			On virtually every hunting day. It's unfortunately not actually illegal to film children in public-you do not need anybody's permission and the antis know this. In fact at our hunt when somebody politely requested they did not film their grandson, the antis proceeded to do so repetitively, just to try and wind them up and provoke a reaction.
		
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I think the main trouble is that a lot of antis witness illegal hunting and become frustrated that the law isn't up help then they go into vigilante mode if you like. 
Trouble is the people who break the law spoil it for everyone


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## Fides (21 May 2014)

Bertiehound said:



			I think the main trouble is that a lot of antis witness illegal hunting and become frustrated that the law isn't up help then they go into vigilante mode if you like. 
Trouble is the people who break the law spoil it for everyone
		
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But they sab drag hunts...


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## Houndman (21 May 2014)

Yes, a drag hunt near us got sabbed recently.  It's nothing to do with hunting per se, but a perceived class war thing.

I remember in the 1990s when there were sabs letting off fireworks behind horses and spreading nails on the road.


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## EstherYoung (22 May 2014)

We used to have antis at our mock hunt - no fox, no dogs.... To be fair they didn't do anything, just held placards and chanted, but they wouldn't pack in even when we explained it was a mock hunt.


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## Countryman (23 May 2014)

Bertiehound said:



			I think the main trouble is that a lot of antis witness illegal hunting and become frustrated that the law isn't up help then they go into vigilante mode if you like. 
Trouble is the people who break the law spoil it for everyone
		
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I think it is more likely that the antis *fail* to witness any illegal hunting which they are so desperate to imagine occurs. This then frustrates them because they are desperate to have a reason to aggravate hunts. After all, they could easily enforce the law if it was broken-they film absolutely everything everyone is doing all of the time. However, their frustration at being unable to find a stick to beat country people or whoever their pet hate figure is is NO excuse for them to break the law, simply because they cannot satisfy their bigoted prejudices.


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## LittleRooketRider (16 June 2014)

Bertiehound said:



			Can you please give an instance where a sab has been filming young children and why it hasn't been reported to the police?
		
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Yes, I can...

Boxing day meet 2013 , I was out with a group of friends (all of us under 18, ranging from 12-17) and another lady I knew with her young son (10) late afternoon we came across some  "monitors" filming "illegal activities" carried out by a field that was walking down a private track and had come to a halt. She asked them very politely not to film her son  (and pointed out that they did not have permission to film any of the rest of us, as she was looking out for us that day) and they continued. She requested again they ignored her then started yelling abuse at her. So she got out her phone and dialed the police, as she started talking to the police they scarpered.


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## flojo (17 June 2014)

paulineh said:



			I once had a pony that when you put pressure just in front of the saddle would kick out. Very useful if the antis were around. If I was ever challenged I would always say that horses are unpredictable.
		
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You do the hunting fraternity no favours with statements like that!

You obviously have no thought for the comfort of your pony or the safety of others.


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## Mike007 (14 July 2014)

Not all antis are bad and not all hunting folk are a credit to hunting. I do remember an instance where antis were appalled at the actions of one of their number who attacked hounds by ramming them with a bicycle. For my sins I did fell him by using the tip of my hunting whip as a lance ,into his ribs. I take no responsibility however for the actions of my horse who insisted on stepping on the aforesaid bicycle and "killing "it by grinding his hooves on the wheels. The renegade anti was pretty upset about his bike and my horse looked pretty smug. He got absolutely no support from his comrades either.


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## bakewell (17 July 2014)

I actually think the often violent and dangerous actions of sabs prior to the ban is coming back to bite them on the bum as hunting children from that era have the time/ finances to allow them to hunt again. 

I am really angry when I think back to how we were harrassed. It wasn't a protest, they were knowingly risking our safety and often over the line into assault. I was supervised by a family friend and I still get her a bottle at christmas. Coordinating several children on stubborn hairy ponies often put her in the thick of it. We regularly had people grabbing our reins, spooking our ponies and shouting abuse... at best. I'd say our average age was 12. She took us out every time we wanted to go because she believed it was our right.

I am going to take my own children hunting when they are able, and I hope I have one ounce of the restraint and politeness our guardian demonstrated in quite frightening circumstances.


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## lastchancer (17 July 2014)

Hunting folk should start a few adult only meets, wearing balaclavas and anyone with a shotgun licence carry one, to dispatch the fox humanely of course. See how the sabs like to be terrorized.


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## claireannejames (6 August 2014)

Partridg3 said:



			the antis started sounding their horns which totally threw the hounds and the fox took advantage.
		
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The fox took advantage????? but you were trail hunting right?  Because fox hunting is illegal!


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## bakewell (6 August 2014)

claireannejames said:



			The fox took advantage????? but you were trail hunting right?  Because fox hunting is illegal!
		
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Fox hunting is not illegal.
Hunting foxes with a pack of hounds has been illegal since 2004. Some of us are old enough to give historical accounts which may date to before this legislation. 
Back to the days when the hound of horse & hound meant you had a slightly different equine interest to your horse or horse and pony.
(I don't even know if they still exist.)
Additionally, not everyone on the forum is from the UK; hunting with hounds remains legal in a large number of countries.

10 for effort though.


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## claireannejames (6 August 2014)

bakewell said:



			10 for effort though.
		
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No need to be rude


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## Hunting101 (7 September 2014)

I'm not sure if someone has said this as have only read up until page 5 but I remember at a Boxing Day meet once (over 100 horses plus hundreds of foot followers) it was discovered that the sabs had attached/hidden fireworks all around where the meet was held. Luckily they were found and disposed of but this could have caused untold carnage and undoubtedly deaths had they gone off.


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## jimmyp (8 September 2014)

Man, I'm from the US, so all of this is more or less foreign to me. Y'all put up with some silliness. 

I guess the issues we have with antis, are nothing compared to you. I have seen Antis, at pointing dog field trials but thy are smart enough to stay at the road in and yell obscenities from the gate.

Jim


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## lastchancer (8 September 2014)

jimmyp said:



			Man, I'm from the US, so all of this is more or less foreign to me. Y'all put up with some silliness. 

I guess the issues we have with antis, are nothing compared to you. I have seen Antis, at pointing dog field trials but thy are smart enough to stay at the road in and yell obscenities from the gate.

Jim
		
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We put up with far too much idiocy in general over here


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## Happy Hunter (9 September 2014)

I would be interested to read the details of the recent news article here : http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/hunt-member-arrested-saboteur/

"a hunt saboteur was hospitalised following a collision with a horse."

Now does that mean he/she was mown down by a galloping horse, or got knocked over at a meet for standing too close?!


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## LittleRooketRider (9 September 2014)

Happy Hunter said:



			I would be interested to read the details of the recent news article here : http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/hunt-member-arrested-saboteur/

"a hunt saboteur was hospitalised following a collision with a horse."

Now does that mean he/she was mown down by a galloping horse, or got knocked over at a meet for standing too close?!
		
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What it fails to mention is that this was a children's meet put on especially for the pony club. O...and sabs pepper-spraying ponies and children as well as adults on horses. Last I checked pepper spray was illegal in the UK?

(just to clarify I don't think it justifies "mowing down" the sab but i did not see what happened whether it was accident or deliberate)


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## Happy Hunter (9 September 2014)

The law is very specific, and is laid out in Section 5(1) (b) of the firearms act 1968.

This act prohibits any weapon of any description, designed or adapted for the discharge of any noxious liquid, gas or other substance.

 In a nutshell the law is saying that full on pepper spray, the type the UK police use [ as seen in the photo on the right ] that contains a noxious gas is one of those items that is considered illegal to carry and illegal to use in the UK by civilians and preppers alike.


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## jimmyp (9 September 2014)

Ive read through a lot of this a couple of times and I just can not wrap my head around all of this. How can y'alls Govt, allow these "sabs" to act like this? 

There are laws in the US that protect us from this type of interference to the legal pursuit of game, and the assaults on the horses would cause some issues with our laws also.

I can see where the "hunters" hands are tied as far as physical retaliation, but this is absolutely silly. 

i am having enough trouble wrapping my head around drag hunts..... 

I feel for you, it is a pretty sad situation that y'all are in over there.

Jim


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## Fides (9 September 2014)

jimmyp said:



			Ive read through a lot of this a couple of times and I just can not wrap my head around all of this. How can y'alls Govt, allow these "sabs" to act like this? 

There are laws in the US that protect us from this type of interference to the legal pursuit of game, and the assaults on the horses would cause some issues with our laws also.

I can see where the "hunters" hands are tied as far as physical retaliation, but this is absolutely silly. 

i am having enough trouble wrapping my head around drag hunts..... 

I feel for you, it is a pretty sad situation that y'all are in over there.

Jim
		
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Hunting with hounds is illegal and this seems to give the sabs the belief that they can persecute people on drag/mock hunts 'just in case' they are acting illegally. The general population has a different mentality to that of the US - we are much more tolerant and less likely to react, perhaps because over here it is illegal to carry a weapon of any sort. If you retaliate to someone like this you could end up dead.


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## JonnoT (10 September 2014)

Driving back from hunting (where the 'hunt monitors' had made a pain in the a**e of themselves as usual) I found myself behind the anti's car, so given they had been following us all day, I though I'd follow them for a bit to see how they liked it.
After a while they clocked me (still in hunting gear), pulled over, started filming me, stuck their camera through my window and asked what business I had following them.
I explained that I was a road safety monitor, was following them in order to observe their driving and should they break a speed limit or cross a white line, I would have to call the police - wouldn't I?

Appears they don't like it up 'em!


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## jimmyp (10 September 2014)

Dead? Damn, its amazing the culture difference. Our antis, are content to act like fools on the WWW, hold picket signs, and yell silliness. I'm not sure if they know better, or are just not as motivated, or lack of support keeps them from getting militant.  

We used to run coyotes with hounds and occasionally we would catch some flack at competitions, but again, most of these protesters (college age and more scared than not) were not to interested in confrontation. 

Sorry I'm baffled by this, I'll get back to lurking and less posting. Just interesting to me.

Jim


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