# Coffin joint arthritis- any success stories?



## NooNoo59 (20 June 2018)

My dear boy has been diagnosed with coffin joint arthritis. He was in injected yesterday I can start walk work in 7 days then normal work after 14 days. He is used for hacking and low level dressage. Anyone got any experience with returning to normal work levels after these injections?


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## piglet2001 (20 June 2018)

Yes mine recently diagnosed. Injected then had three days off. Vet said straight back into normal work. Competing within 6 days (not under rules). Back out at affiliated level a fortnight later with great success &#128522;


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## NooNoo59 (20 June 2018)

Thats encouraging news! How old, breed type, etc??


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## piglet2001 (21 June 2018)

16 yrs. done 11 hunting seasons and affiliated competition every summer. 17.2hh


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## Zuzzie (22 June 2018)

I found that the injections were fantastic to start with as the result was like a miracle.  However, the affect only lasted about 9 months so I had another repeat injection done which lasted 6 months.  He was injected again for a third time but the affect was minimal.  I also suspect that the use of steroids does not do the joint any good.  I then went through a whole series of remedies recommended by the vet but nothing worked.  Finished up on bute and was only able to hack out.  The only advice I can offer is that you must keep the joint moving so regular light work will be necessary.  I hope your outcome is better than mine.  Good luck.


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## mairiwick (24 June 2018)

My mare had the injections only once, we put her on a vet prescribed joint supplement and she responded really well. We didn't need to repeat the injections, continued with low level work - hacking, and slowly built up from there. That was 6 years ago when she was 8, she's 14 now and has so far shown no signs of it causing her any further discomfort. She is barefoot now and her for kept fairly short to keep the action over the joint short too, seems to have worked for us.


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## NooNoo59 (26 June 2018)

Thanks everyone, start walk work tomorrow. He is hacked twice a week and and schooled or lunged four times on an average week. As he is 14 now I hope realistically to get another good two years for dressage then possibly semi retire him and just do light hacking. It is frustrating as he has had a very easy life as his previous owner only rode about once a month and she had him for 8 years so I was not expecting problems at this stage. But thats horses for you!!


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## NooNoo59 (9 July 2018)

Started trot work he is better but still not 100% he has packed a few pounds on and this always makes him feel slightly uneven. Ground is so hard so only walking while out and trotting in the school. Did yours all feel good straight away?


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## NooNoo59 (11 July 2018)

Walked out well on hack yesterday but very reluctant to trot in the school. Instructor to assess tomorrow. I have a bad feeling about this.


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## skint1 (11 July 2018)

Try not to be too downhearted. My lad had a terrible year last year, spent most of the last summer not sound- he has moderate OA in both front coffin joints- he was also diagnosed with Cushings, but it all took a long time to find our way through.  This year, we've really cracked it and even with this hard ground he has stayed sound, though to be fair I'm only a happy hacker with the odd bit of school/pole work thrown in.  He has boswellia supplement every day plus a danilon a day at times like this when the ground is hard. My farrier is great and has been instrumental in maintaining soundness and there may be a time I consider pulling his shoes as I have heard many people say that horses with coffin joint OA do best barefoot.,


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## Accidental Eventer (16 July 2018)

I only have bad news. Our mare had it in all 4 feet. The injections worked very briefly for us once then not at all after that. She got gradually worse despite what we tried to do to help her out, to the point where she wasn't paddock sound. 

She was 10 when we found it, but I believe she had been putting up with it for many years prior, especially since she had it all round. It just showed up when we started to ask more from her. 

I wish you the best of luck, try and stay positive. It is hard, I had a doom and gloom feeling about our mare too.


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## 1ST1 (16 July 2018)

Well I fortunately have a success story so far (fingers crossed). My PRE has coffin joints arthritis in both his front feet. He had steroid injections for several times but (as previously said) the effect lasted for less and less every time. I was considering retiring him as he was comfortable with one danilon in the field. But, as a last resort, my vet suggested Arthramid (polyacrylamide hydrogel) which is a new therapy for this kind of condition. We used an equivalent (Noltrex) as Arthramid is not yet available in our country. My boy had the injections in May and was sound in a matter of days. He got better and better in the weeks that followed and is now back to his old forward going self. My vet says that the drug is not absorbed by the body like the steroids and stays in the joint for up to two years, cushioning it. It is more expensive but was totally worth it in my case. Can you ask your vet about this?


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## NooNoo59 (16 July 2018)

Thats very helpful and will do, how old is your horse?  Instructor has said we need to get the work going and we have and so far he seems much better so fingers crossed. I realise that he will probably need something else in the future but I am trying to stay positive.


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## 1ST1 (16 July 2018)

His exact age is not known, but we believe him to be somewhere between 15 and 19. He had a very hard life before I got him (constantly doing passage, piaffe and Spanish walk on very hard surfaces).
I hope your horse becomes sound and you have many, many years of happiness together.


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## ester (16 July 2018)

F had a coffin joint DJD diagnosis but I'm unsure of the accuracy - he blocked to coffin joint which should be pretty specific and improved with injections but as I brought him back into work slowly the more he did the lamer he got. 

I took his shoes off and he did another 5 years of full work and retired due to totally unrelated back end issues.


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## NooNoo59 (16 July 2018)

if the injections dont work i am not averse to giving the barefoot a go. Seems to all good atm. The trouble is as soon as I know my horse has a problem I let them get away with murder!!


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## NooNoo59 (23 July 2018)

so after a couple of good weeks, he is lame again. have only walked on the roads and worked in the school. talking to vet again!


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## ester (23 July 2018)

Did he have an MRI or just xrays. If he's been working in the school and has since got worse I'd query soft tissue involvement if only xrayed.


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## NooNoo59 (23 July 2018)

No not yet, think that might be the next step. Obviously the ground is rock hard and that does not help but hes not one for careering about! I am thinking MRI and poss shoe removal once the ground is softer.


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## ester (23 July 2018)

I didn't bother as it wouldn't have changed my treatment plan after bar shoes and injections had failed. Slow motion video footage of his landing was fairly telling though in that he was very lateral on his lame side so I'd suspect the collateral ligament wasn't too happy at least.


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## NooNoo59 (24 July 2018)

ok have sent videos to the vet, he is obviously struggling on the hard. So he is hacked out twice a week as I think he cannot go in the school every day and we have to do roadwork as our off road areas are really bad for flies in the summer and inaccessible in the winter. Hope the vet can do advise something that can at least get him to be able to hack out as I dont think its healthy for a horses brain to just work on a surface all the time.
Any thoughts on this?


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## NooNoo59 (24 July 2018)

Vet is not happy with the nearside fore light work poss inject again in 3 months poss pads and last resort surgery which I am not keen on doing. Not good news


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## ester (24 July 2018)

I think you said you did get previous improvement from the jab? Post injections we walked for a couple of weeks and there was a definite improvement. It was only when we started doing longer hacks and introducing trot that he wasn't right on it again. On the basis of previous improvement I opted to have him injected again at the time I took shoes off.

Surgery seems like quite an extreme suggestion when there are other medical options?


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## NooNoo59 (24 July 2018)

Yes he was better until we upped the work. Not sure whether taking to shoes would work as the vet explained that could increase the concussion spread thru the sole. Not keen on surgery tbh


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## pastit (25 July 2018)

NooNoo59 said:



			Yes he was better until we upped the work. Not sure whether taking to shoes would work as the vet explained that could increase the concussion spread thru the sole. Not keen on surgery tbh
		
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Just as an aside, be wary of your bedding.  I found that my horse hated any lateral movement of the joint.  He was happier plodding round the flat surface of the yard than going out in the field.  He was bedded on shavings, but was better when I switched to straw.


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## NooNoo59 (26 July 2018)

Straw is a tricky one as he eats it and I already struggle with his weight. Waiting for report from the vet to discuss options.


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## NooNoo59 (26 July 2018)

Pastit, did you horse stay sound? so you couldnt do any work like leg yield etc?


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## pastit (15 August 2018)

Unfortunately, no.  Like the others have reported, the steroids didn't last a day over three months, and the arthritis has spread to hocks and neck.  He's on a bute a day and doing ok, but I am acutely aware that this horse will not show pain whereas my other one is a complete wuss.  So he is probably in low grade pain and humans that have arthritis in their ankles will say the same - that the ache is always present.  I took his shoes off  about three months ago to see if that helped, but even allowing for a period of adjustment, I don't see much (or any) difference.  He is 16 years, 14.1, and is out 24hrs in summer.  When his coffin joint is bad, he headshakes (twitches) although it took us a while to connect the two, so I think he was having to cope with it a very long time before it was diagnosed.
So I have a fat contented pony who rarely twitches enjoying his retirement & I hope it lasts a long time, but I will think again if the medication has to increase.  I wish you all the very best - its a horrible thing to happen to our best mates.

I'm sorry to sound negative, luckily all horses are different. I put him on a half bed of straw and rubber matted the front half.  Then he had a choice of standing on a completely flat surface. If the straw gets smelly, try sprinkling 3 or 4 handfuls of woodpellets underneath the straw to soak up the wee.  I do this with both of mine as they are prone to winter coughs - it makes a big difference.  I started with Yukkabed until they became bored with trying to find edible straw.


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## ycbm (15 August 2018)

NooNoo59 said:



			Yes he was better until we upped the work. Not sure whether taking to shoes would work as the vet explained that could increase the concussion spread thru the sole. Not keen on surgery tbh
		
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A barefoot horse lands first on the spongy frog and digital cushion, taking out masses of concussion from the foot landing on a hard surface. 

A shoe, on the other hand, directly passes the concussion through the rigid hoof wall into the foot bones via the glue like attachment of the laminae.


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## NooNoo59 (15 August 2018)

He has had pads and magicushion fitted this week and looked a lot better today so fingers crossed. Going to get instructor to assess at the weekend


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## NooNoo59 (18 August 2018)

Ridden today still lsme in trot talking to the vet on Monday. Fed up!


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## pastit (20 August 2018)

NooNoo59 said:



			Ridden today still lsme in trot talking to the vet on Monday. Fed up!
		
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Try not to worry, there may be another joint down there that also needs injecting.  Did you have nerve block tests originally?  All the joints are quite close together, so it can be a process of elimination. I found that my boy was substantially better fairly soon after the jab, so you'll know if it's worked.  Fingers crossed!


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## ester (20 August 2018)

Also if you're not happy with your vet's assessment (I also don't understand his comment about concussion, it's just not how it works biomechanics wise) then it might be time to get a second opinion.


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## NooNoo59 (20 August 2018)

Pastit the vet seemed very certain that it was the coffin joint has today suggested medicating again and also systemic drug to support ligaments etc.  If no better then not to assess further damage.


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## ester (20 August 2018)

what systemic?


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## NooNoo59 (20 August 2018)

Cartrophen I think line was a bit noisy !


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## RichardRider (21 August 2018)

Have just stumbled onto this thread and it could possibly be the answer for my Selle Francais of 19 here in Normandy.  I'm thinking of buying another horse but if this could buy he(at 19) and me(65) a few good years, well, that would be much better than another horse that no one will ride when I stop.  Could any of you give me a basic estimate of what it costs to do in England so I can better decided if it's worth it or to go on trying other horses.  This would be a dream come true!

richard rider


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## ester (21 August 2018)

cost to do which bit RR?


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## NooNoo59 (21 August 2018)

Ok I have spent 850 which includes xrays and work up. Not sure what the next lot will cost. Oh and 30 on pads and magicushion


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## RichardRider (21 August 2018)

I suppose, to answer you ester, the treatment, injections, xrays, and whatever else it would entail.  Thanks NN59 that's already giving me an idea...My instructor once told me that injections meant to deaden the nerve were horribly expensive.  I wonder if he was eluding to something even more complex.  If I could buy another few years with my guy(i too have arthritis and no one's putting me out to pasture,) 1000euros would not be too dear...

Will give a call or stop by my vets and see what he thinks and let you know what he says...Thanks for the input...rr


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## ester (21 August 2018)

Steroid injections are pretty cheap, they don't really deaden the nerve though (or that's not how I would describe it), some react well but improvement is always time limited 3-6 months being 'normal'

I think our xrays (2 views of both front hooves), nerve block (one to back of hoof, a later one to coffin joint) and steroids into coffin joint was about £600 though about 6 years ago. The steroid injection being the cheapest bit  . Most recently I have injected the hock on the basis of flexion, no xrays or nerve blocks and for visit and jab was about £120 - I seem to have failed on my spreadsheet recording that year!


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## RichardRider (22 August 2018)

ester said:



			Steroid injections are pretty cheap, they don't really deaden the nerve though (or that's not how I would describe it), some react well but improvement is always time limited 3-6 months being 'normal'

I think our xrays (2 views of both front hooves), nerve block (one to back of hoof, a later one to coffin joint) and steroids into coffin joint was about £600 though about 6 years ago. The steroid injection being the cheapest bit  . Most recently I have injected the hock on the basis of flexion, no xrays or nerve blocks and for visit and jab was about £120 - I seem to have failed on my spreadsheet recording that year!
		
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I believe Instructor was speaking about "nerve blocking" being so expensive.  This doesn't sound bad at all...Thanks everyone rr


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## be positive (22 August 2018)

RichardRider said:



			I believe Instructor was speaking about "nerve blocking" being so expensive.  This doesn't sound bad at all...Thanks everyone rr
		
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Your instructor may have been speaking about denerving, permanently cutting the nerves to the foot, which is a different ball game completely and one that most people will not consider because the horse will have no feeling in it's foot, injecting steroids to reduce the inflammation and slow down the progression of the condition is completely different but you do need a diagnosis first and getting that can prove expensive.


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## ester (22 August 2018)

nerve blocking for diagnostics isn't that much either, at least so long as the issue is low down


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## RichardRider (22 August 2018)

be positive said:



			Your instructor may have been speaking about denerving, permanently cutting the nerves to the foot, which is a different ball game completely and one that most people will not consider because the horse will have no feeling in it's foot, injecting steroids to reduce the inflammation and slow down the progression of the condition is completely different but you do need a diagnosis first and getting that can prove expensive.
		
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Yes, that's basically what he implied.  Thank you all so much, as I mentioned in my Bute Inquiry I now have many options to TAKE to the vet.  I've learned over the years, it's very useful here(I've been in France 35 years and my French is, well French, so no problem missing anything, due to language barrier,) knowing AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE about just about any subject before asking for advice, can save one a great deal of time and money...  This goes for masonry, carpentry, electricity and plumbing(and god I wish I'd listened to my father when he tried to teach me something about mechanics and computers.)  Going to have a good sit down after examination with the vet who has always cared for my guy(who is a super fellow and son's compete in the club I belong to,) and lay it all out on the table.  See what he says.

Thank you all so much...cheers...richard


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## NooNoo59 (22 August 2018)

Keep us posted I will be updating in about a month once I know if the second injection has worked


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## RichardRider (22 August 2018)

NooNoo59 said:



			Keep us posted I will be updating in about a month once I know if the second injection has worked
		
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Will do NooNoo...rr


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## NooNoo59 (29 September 2018)

Mri shows desmooathy to collateral ligaments on left fore and mild tear to ddft on right fore and confirms moderate coffin joint arthritis. Waiting to speak to vet


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## MelT (4 October 2018)

NooNoo59 I have taken on a lad who had 'issues' with both front feet following a really bad cut to one of his back legs.  He had x-rays and MRI showing Mild to moderate desmitis of the lateral collateral ligament of the distal interphalangeal joint left fore, Moderate degenerative joint disease of the distal interphalangeal joint bilaterally, Mild degenerative joint disease of the proximal interphalangeal joint bilaterally, Evidence of mild laminar pain left more so than right, however it should be noted that these changes are mild.  He was treated in one foot first with steroid injection but he had a bad reaction to it so it was agreed with his owner at the time not to proceed with any further ones.  My farrier thought I was bonkers but agreed to try and see what could be done. We had his shoes removed and turned him out in the field in May 2017 with regular foot trims to keep him balanced.  He came back into work in April 2018 and my farrier now shoes him with normal shoes with side clips, set back to ease his break over and he has anti-concussion pads on both front feet.  He's a big lad at 17hh and not a slightly built type either.  He's only doing hacking and some schooling for intro/prelim dressage at the minute but he happily goes for a good gallop across the old pit down the road!  You'd never know there was anything wrong with him the way he bounces around!  I swear by Equine Answers Premier Flex Plus as a joint supplement.  It's really helped Scotch.  He isn't on any pain killers ie, bute/danilon but does have turmeric and micronized linseed plus this joint supplement daily.  I have no idea how long Scotch will remain sound but I'm enjoying life with him as long as is possible.  I do think having the period of rest with no shoes on helped him too.


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## NooNoo59 (4 October 2018)

Thanks for that MelT the vet is  coming tomorrow to inject osphos and start cartrophen. He also has a bone bruise which is worrying. The vet has said if he does not come sound by the new year then is prob not going to. I have decided to get another one so I have something to ride and reassess in the new year.


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## RichardRider (5 October 2018)

Sorry to get back so late...Vet coming today for xrays.  Yes, I've been putting it off because my horse Incarna was FANTASTIC for a few weeks, even did a rather(normal at one time, and for all other horses,) super hack out, galloping and cantering like he was a young horse, than I noticed him slightly lame.  Vet gave me more products to give orally, saying the trial period was no longer than 10 days(a substitute for Bute, which I feel French Vets don't like that much.)  Had to sprinkle sugar on it and really mix it into his morning meal for him to stop kicking over the bucket and totally ignoring the stuff...Anyway, I'm late back when I have results...Thanks all rr


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## ester (5 October 2018)

it would be interesting to see some hoof photos noonoo.


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## NooNoo59 (23 February 2019)

Ok pony has been assessed by vet on full lameness work up and he is still lame. Vet has advised not putting him thru another summer due to sweet itch and weight increase which will only make his level of discomfort worse. So I have to find the right time to do this such a hard thing to do!


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## ycbm (23 February 2019)

If you decide to put the pony down on vet's advice, fine, there is no problem with that.

With the diagnosis you had, it was unlikely that he would come sound  unless you took the shoes off, and there is still time to try that approach. You will get a lot of support from the forum if you decide to do this. 

This site gives the progress of many horses which had the same MRI diagnosis as yours, including the vet recommendation to PTS.  I have rehabbed one myself where the PTS appointment was made and the owner cancelled to bring him to me instead. 


Rockleyfarm.blogspot.com


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## NooNoo59 (23 February 2019)

Shoes have been off since June


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## NooNoo59 (23 February 2019)

Good quality is good


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## NooNoo59 (23 February 2019)

Hoof!


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## ycbm (23 February 2019)

NooNoo59 said:



			Shoes have been off since June
		
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Sorry, didn't realise that. I'm sorry it didn't work out ðŸ˜•


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## NooNoo59 (23 February 2019)

So am I he is a cracking cob but I think.there is too much going on in the front joints/feet for him to come right. Vets bills up to over 4000 so far I think we have reached the end of the road


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## piglet2001 (24 February 2019)

NooNoo59 said:



			So am I he is a cracking cob but I think.there is too much going on in the front joints/feet for him to come right. Vets bills up to over 4000 so far I think we have reached the end of the road
		
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Have you tried athramid? Worth  a shot if your horse hasnâ€™t responded to steroids. You have my deepest sympathies. It is such a lonely place to be ðŸ˜¥.


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## NooNoo59 (24 February 2019)

Trouble is the soft tissue damage along side the arthritis. I know the vet is right it's just making that phone call


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## ycbm (25 February 2019)

NN59, concentrate on the pain your horse will be in trying to stand on feet that ache all the time, and know that you are doing the only kind thing possible. Call now, right now, and if they are still on answerphone, call again until they aren't.


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## NooNoo59 (25 February 2019)

Thank you. We have some on our yard who think its cruel to put to sleep but he is lame which means he is in a level of discomfort and therefore I know its not fair and I need to get it sorted


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## thedutchess (25 February 2019)

Not a success story i'm afraid my boy was diagnosed in January as was lame in trot, had the injection and is now intermittently lame in walk which he never was before im so disappointed next step is mri


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## NooNoo59 (25 February 2019)

I made the decision to mri as my gut was telling me that the arthritis was not the only problem. Interestingly now he is lamer on the off side rather than the near side. The end story is that he is lame and its the end of the road which I need to get my head round asap.


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## Accidental Eventer (26 February 2019)

It took me a bit to get my head around putting our mare to sleep because she wasn't obviously lame. She had it in all 4 feet though and so although I couldn't see it I knew it was there. It showed up after she had had a good hoon around the paddock and some days were worse than others. It was a really hard decision but ultimately the right one. 

I miss her everyday but I know it was the right thing to do by her. You have my sympathy. People who judge you for making this decision are not kind.


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## NooNoo59 (26 February 2019)

You are right he looks fine most of the time but it's there and it isn't going away. I was given this horse so I have let the previous owner know as I think that's only fair to give her the chance to say goodbye.  As soon as I hear back from her the phone call will be made.


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## NooNoo59 (2 March 2019)

The deed is done. Thanks for the kind words and support.


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## ycbm (2 March 2019)

I hope you feel relief as well as the inevitable sadness.. Look after yourself.


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## NooNoo59 (2 March 2019)

Thank you it was your message that made me realise I needed to act sooner rather than later


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## Hormonal Filly (17 April 2019)

NooNoo59 said:



			So am I he is a cracking cob but I think.there is too much going on in the front joints/feet for him to come right. Vets bills up to over 4000 so far I think we have reached the end of the road
		
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Was just reading your post when you went to vet him and collected him, is it the same Welsh D?
So sorry to read this and bring a old post up!


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## NooNoo59 (17 April 2019)

No the Welsh d is the new one on another thread. The cob was pts on 1st March on vets advice as he wasn't field sound. Best for him miss his lovely face


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