# x-rays and vets not giving a copy?



## riding_high (24 September 2010)

i was just wondering if vets are within their rights to not let you have a copy of x-rays taken or do you have the right to either a copy (emailed/memory stick/etc) or the actual pictures?
is it down to the individual vet/practice?


----------



## cptrayes (24 September 2010)

The copyright  belongs to the Vet and you have no right to the images.

But any reasonable vet, with digital images, will give you a copy.

If your xrays are film not digital they need to stay with the horse's record at the vet but if they are digital images it is entirely unreasonable for them not to give you a copy and you should scream and shout until you get them


----------



## riding_high (24 September 2010)

thanks for that, you say that the images stay with the horses records..........what if you decide to change to a different practice, would they still insist on keeping the images and the horses record?


----------



## LucyPriory (24 September 2010)

Strictly speaking they own the copyright.  But if any client of mine asked for a copy of the pictures I have taken or a video I would be more than happy to let them have one.  Although I do this for free, I would suggest that it is not unreasonable to expect to pay for the vet's time and costs in providing the copies.

And it is perhaps not entirely ethical/professional not to release information which is important in mantaining a horse's health.

But of course we do not know the full circumstances and maybe there is good cause somewhere along the line.


----------



## WellyBaggins (24 September 2010)

It is fairly normal practice, not sure about moving vets though so cannot help there I'm afraid


----------



## riding_high (24 September 2010)

thanks.
this was something that i heard being discussed not so long ago and it sort of made me think about it, i mean if we move doctors then our records go with us, we are always entitled to have a copy of things so wouldn't have thought it would be different for an animal.
if you pay for the x-rays to be taken then surely you've bought the right to have a copy as welll?

i never gave it a thought before as i was given a copy of my horses x-rays and i didn't even have to ask for them!


----------



## intouch (24 September 2010)

THat happened to us once, we were allowed to view the xray but not have it.  Next time we asked for an xray we made it clear that we would not be using the vet if we could not have a copy - no problem.


----------



## MissMincePie&Brandy (24 September 2010)

I'm currently having the same problem.  My horse recently went in, and had xrays taken of all of his joints, his whole back, his feet, but the vets wont let me have a copy.


----------



## abbieandfiona (24 September 2010)

Legally as a horse owner you are entitled to a copy of x-rays if you pay for the copy, just been through this with my horse.


----------



## cptrayes (24 September 2010)

abigail621 said:



			Legally as a horse owner you are entitled to a copy of x-rays if you pay for the copy, just been through this with my horse.
		
Click to expand...

Only if you reach an agreement before they are taken that you will be able to have a copy. You pay the vet to take the xrays but they don't belong to you unless you make it clear first that you are buying the copyright. Otherwise, the copyright is with the vet and you have no legal right to a copy whatsoever. When x rays were on film this was important. They had to stay with the treatment record to explain why the vet made the diagnosis that he did. Now they are almost all digital there is no excuse for them to deny you a copy, but some still do.

If you moved vets and the new vets asked for a copy then I'm sure they would be supplied. It's us idiot owners they don't want having copies in case we start asking awkward questions


----------



## Lotty (25 September 2010)

My mare has had quite a few x-rays lately and my vet emailed them to me. I just asked if I could see them and there was no charge.


----------



## icemaiden113 (28 September 2010)

Some vets allow copies to be given others do not - it depends on circumstances.All are allowed to be viewed. As for moving vets  - new vets will obtain records from old vets this is standard practice.
But just a question - Why would you want or need a copy of the x-rays?


----------



## Equilibrium Ireland (28 September 2010)

Thankfully, my vet has one of those xray machines in which I can see them right in the barn aisle as soon as they are taken. Haven't had the need to get a copy, but I do know that my vet would indeed give me a copy if so needed. 

Terri


----------



## ImogenBurrows (28 September 2010)

The copyright of the x-rays does remain with the vets.  We have digital radiography and will always provide clients with their own DVD of the images for their interest FOC. We also routinely email them to their farrier if necessary. 
I'm not sure why vets with digital processors would not do this TBH.

Film copies are very expensive to make and most places do not have the facility to do it either. 

If you change vets, the new surgery can request the history and xrays will be forwarded if they are relevant and then ideally returned to the vets that took them.  This ensures the vet responsible for the consultation at the time retains full information and that xrays don't get lost, very important should a dispute ever arise. 

Hope that clarifies things. Imogen


----------



## cptrayes (28 September 2010)

icemaiden113 said:



			Some vets allow copies to be given others do not - it depends on circumstances.All are allowed to be viewed. As for moving vets  - new vets will obtain records from old vets this is standard practice.
But just a question - Why would you want or need a copy of the x-rays?
		
Click to expand...

Why wouldn't you want them  ??? I have copies of my broken shoulder, my broken arm, my horse's paralysed larynx and my rehab's fuzzy navicular bones and paper thin soles. I love looking at them. Am I odd     ?


----------



## MissMincePie&Brandy (28 September 2010)

I would like a copy of mine (it doesn't look like I'm getting a copy ), because my horse has been diagnosed with some serious bone degeneration which has caused me to decide to retire him (he's only 9).  I would like to be able to sit down and study these x-rays in my own time and not feel pressured into being rushed.

I am retiring my horse, but I'm keeping him and he will need to be monitored in the future.  If I have another set of x-rays done in 18 months or 2 years time, I would want to be able to sit and compare the two myself at home.

I can of course understand to a degree why the vets wouldn't want owners having x-rays which might lead to these being used to obtain cheaper treatments elsewhere, or uneducated owners misunderstanding what they think they can see themselves, etc.

But I am a responsible, experienecd and very caring owner and all I want to do is have a copy of these, for my records, and to help me come to terms with and understand what has caused my young thoroughbred's working life to come to such a sudden end.


----------



## cptrayes (28 September 2010)

Can you change vets, to one you know will let you have a copy. Then they can request the copy and they will get them, and then give you them?    Or just kick up such a fuss that they give you  a copy to shut you up? Have you tried writing to them and pointing out how unreasonable it is to withhold them in this day and age?  PM me if you want help with drafting a letter, I enjoy stuff like that!


----------



## ImogenBurrows (28 September 2010)

Misinterpreted said:



			I would like a copy of mine (*it doesn't look like I'm getting a copy* ), because my horse has been diagnosed with some serious bone degeneration which has caused me to decide to retire him (he's only 9).  I would like to be able to sit down and study these x-rays in my own time and not feel pressured into being rushed.

I am retiring my horse, but I'm keeping him and he will need to be monitored in the future.  If I have another set of x-rays done in 18 months or 2 years time, I would want to be able to sit and compare the two myself at home.

I can of course understand to a degree why the vets wouldn't want owners having x-rays which might lead to these being used to obtain cheaper treatments elsewhere, or uneducated owners misunderstanding what they think they can see themselves, etc.

But I am a responsible, experienecd and very caring owner and all I want to do is have a copy of these, for my records, and to help me come to terms with and understand what has caused my young thoroughbred's working life to come to such a sudden end.
		
Click to expand...

Your reasons are very logical and understandable.
Are they film? If they are digital then it's a matter of putting them on a DVD - I would ask a bit more firmly, I really can't think of a good reason as to why you can't have a copy?! If they are film, they are a nightmare to copy, I don't know anywhere that does that.  It can be done...but it's costly and you'd have a hell of a search to find somewhere I suspect. 

Good luck 
Imogen


----------



## MissMincePie&Brandy (29 September 2010)

ImogenBurrows said:



			Your reasons are very logical and understandable.
Are they film? If they are digital then it's a matter of putting them on a DVD - I would ask a bit more firmly, I really can't think of a good reason as to why you can't have a copy?! If they are film, they are a nightmare to copy, I don't know anywhere that does that.  It can be done...but it's costly and you'd have a hell of a search to find somewhere I suspect. 

Good luck 
Imogen
		
Click to expand...

They are digital xrays.  They told me they'll happily forward them directly to other parties who would need them, ie my farrier, other veterinary practises, specialists involved in treating my horse, but they don't send them to owners.


----------



## ImogenBurrows (29 September 2010)

Misinterpreted said:



			They are digital xrays.  They told me they'll happily forward them directly to other parties who would need them, ie my farrier, other veterinary practises, specialists involved in treating my horse, but they don't send them to owners.
		
Click to expand...

Excuse my french but FFS!!! Honestly. Get the sent to your friendly farrier then!


----------



## MissTyc (29 September 2010)

ImogenBurrows said:



			Excuse my french but FFS!!! Honestly. Get the sent to your friendly farrier then!

Click to expand...

Just what I was going to suggest!

I fear your vet is stuck in the dark ages.


----------



## riding_high (29 September 2010)

thanks for all your responses, it's what i was thinking as well about copies and stuff.

just to clear it up i wasn't asking because i needed to get some but it was something i was thinking about because a couple of liveries were discussing it recently as one did get given a copy of the x-rays and the other one didn't (different vets).

i've been given a copy of any treatment/x-rays by my vet so at least i don't need to hassle them if i had to ask about a certain treatment for someone else who was seeing my horse (saddle fitter/EDT/back person/farrier/etc). i don't understand half of what i have but obviously the professionals do so it's easy to just show them the info. i have the vets permission to do this!

i also enjoy looking at the x-rays i've been given, my horse has had numerous problems and i had people telling me for ages that it was a bone fracture/arthritis/etc and that i should have him pts.
i guess it gives me satisfaction that all is well each time i look at the x-rays!


----------



## chocolatepony (29 September 2010)

I think it is very sad that vets will not give copies of xrays out!  I cannot really understand the harm it can do...having said that a colleague of mine (I am a small animal vet) was advised not to give out copies of xrays to clients by our legal team (not sure of the exact situation)-I guess in the culture of sue sue sue you have to be careful!  And I personally find it very difficult to interpret an xray alone without a clinical history/examination.

I happily give out copies of xrays I take to owners-we use film and it is easy to copy them-just take a photo with a digital camera!  Might not be perfectly diagnostic quality but is enough for the owner to have to look at/show to friends etc!  And I have sent these images to specialists for second opinions with no complaints.  I have copies of the xrays of my horse's bone spavin and just like having them for my interest!


----------



## Darkly_Dreaming_Dex (29 September 2010)

Just ask for a copy to go to your farrier- my farrier LOVES that Jacob had annual xrays and an MRI to work from- he always gets his apprentices to study him as their project and Jacob has benefitted from allsorts of approaches to attempting to solve his intermittant lameness on hard ground. When he was MRI'd the RVC posted us a pack with DVD, leaflets etc


----------



## MissMincePie&Brandy (29 September 2010)

ImogenBurrows said:



			Excuse my french but FFS!!! Honestly. Get the sent to your friendly farrier then!

Click to expand...

They emails are sent, on the condition they are not forwarded? In any case, My farrier only has the front feet xrays, which he did print out for me. Not great quality, but better than nothing.

There's nothing to stop me from going into the vets and asking to view them again, or whenever I want. Perhaps if I go in so frequently, they'll start getting annoyed with me? ha ha! 

Shame they are so defensive though.


----------

