# WEG Eventing Team Selected - Thoughts...



## Fanatical (14 August 2018)

Utterly shocked not to see Oli T and Laura Collett on the team.

Not sure what else Mr Bass could have done to impress and while I realise there was a lot of negative press surrounding Oli's actions at Badminton, given his recent 4 star form, surely he deserved his place.

Thoughts...


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## TheMule (14 August 2018)

We have no idea what they've been performing like in training, if there are any little injury/ soundness niggles and how they're likely to cope with long distance travel.
On that basis, I trust the selectors and I think they've chosen an ultra-compeitive field, although it's a real shame Bulana can't be there


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## Fanatical (14 August 2018)

TheMule said:



			We have no idea what they've been performing like in training, if there are any little injury/ soundness niggles and how they're likely to cope with long distance travel.
On that basis, I trust the selectors and I think they've chosen an ultra-compeitive field, although it's a real shame Bulana can't be there
		
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Fair point re the soundness/ suitability for long distance travel. But then, I'd also include in that the ability to cope with heat/ firm ground. Given Gemma T withdrew AS from Gatcombe citing hard ground and saying he prefers the mud/ soft, his selection is a surprise for me, given the likely conditions in Tryon. As I must say is Tina given how often Billy The Red has been blowing up in the dressage lately.


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## ihatework (14 August 2018)

We are so lucky to have such depth to choose from!

I have to say I find Arctic Soul an exceptionally odd choice and do agree Billy the Red hasn&#8217;t been the most consistent in the boards - although he was good at Hartpury and maybe a nice long flight will take the edge off him 

I bet the atmosphere is blue in the Townend Camp


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## flashlytashly (14 August 2018)

TheMule said:



			We have no idea what they've been performing like in training, if there are any little injury/ soundness niggles and how they're likely to cope with long distance travel.
On that basis, I trust the selectors and I think they've chosen an ultra-compeitive field, although it's a real shame Bulana can't be there
		
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Lauras response on Twitter seems to suggest that there are no soundness issues or niggles with Mr Bass. He has been well travelled this year (though not over cooked by the looks of his record) and has super consistent results. Oli has a horse that has won in the USA so clearly has the form after the long trip.

I imagine Gemma made the team as he ground has been reported to be boggy which suits her horse. Plenty of time for it to dry up though and then she could be in trouble.

I honestly dont know how Tina has made it ahead of Laura with many fewer runs, and problems with the horse blowing up in dressage lately.

Although I think Tom deserves it, I think Laura deserves it more.

Really gutted for Laura and Oli.


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## TheMule (14 August 2018)

Perhaps professionalism and good sportsmanship does count for something. But that's me being catty!
I guess Artic Soul is our new Opposition Buzz, pretty much guaranteed quick clear as a pathfinder. Billy The Red travelled to Rio (and did the dressage test) so has done the atmosphere before, not that he did it particularly well IMHO.


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## Branna (14 August 2018)

Feel really sorry for Laura. She has been so consistent and done everything she could have done.

I'm not massively surprised about Ollie, although world no. 1 I couldn't say which of his 3 would be an obvious choice. Ballaghmor Class has had a few poles and Ollie fell at Aachen, Cooley Master Class I think has had soundness issues and Cooley SRS had issues at the Europeans and more importantly maybe wasn't presented the next day..

I was surprised Tina was selected given her form this year, but absolutely thrilled for her and she is such a reliable team performer it's great to see that acknowledged.

Piggy has had really strong form bar the 50pens at Luhmuhlen.

Ros & Tom haven't put a foot wrong all year, and the fact Gemma is selected on Arctic Soul suggests to me they are anticipating a tough xc track.


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## DiNozzo (14 August 2018)

Oli has released a statement...

&#8220;Obviously, I am hugely disappointed not to have been selected to represent Great Britain at the 2018 World Equestrian Games as the current world number one.

&#8220;I have given it everything I can with outstanding results, especially winning in Kentucky on Cooley Master Class and gaining second and fifth-placed finishes at Badminton with Cooley SRS and Ballaghmor Class on the back of winning Burghley.

&#8220;It is not to be for me this time, but I wish all five riders selected for the team the very best in Tryon and I will be supporting them fully in their efforts to win the world title after our success in the European Championships last September.&#8221;

Quite a smug sounding statement to me? Although to be fair, I don't like him as a rider so may be reading into it.

Collet hasn't been particularly professional either on her twitter page- retweeting lots of protest type posts.



Read more at https://www.horseandhound.co.uk/new...venting-team-named-661912#EcmIVdUCBiZPKJ7l.99


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## Equibrit (14 August 2018)

The course wont be boggy. It's built on a hillside. The problem they had was getting the course constructed at the last minute when it kept raining. I wouldn't be surprised to see lumps of turf flying up. Its in these photos, taken in April 2018.
http://assets.eventingnation.com/wp...8093357/TIEC_Threlkeld_venue-0386-640x427.jpg
http://assets.eventingnation.com/wp...8093444/TIEC_Threlkeld_venue-0392-640x427.jpg


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## only_me (14 August 2018)

I can&#8217;t believe that they have left oli off the team. He&#8217;s the world no.1 and has had brilliant results this year on 3 different horses. 
Feels like a massive snub and insult from BE imo.

He produced the results yet hasn&#8217;t been acknowledged for it.


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## Steerpike (14 August 2018)

I am quite glad Olli didn't get picked, his behaviour this year has been awful, and before anyone says he apologised he certainly hasn't learnt from his previous record of yellow cards. Good luck to the team I say!


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## Equibrit (14 August 2018)

Google Earth 2018; https://www.google.com/maps/search/...er/@35.2798431,-82.068905,2839m/data=!3m1!1e3

Ollie may be better off not going. CC course is the bottom right construction site.


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## splashgirl45 (14 August 2018)

Steerpike said:



			I am quite glad Olli didn't get picked, his behaviour this year has been awful, and before anyone says he apologised he certainly hasn't learnt from his previous record of yellow cards. Good luck to the team I say!
		
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i agree, horse welfare should be paramount and the way he rode the grey horse at badminton was horrible to watch..i had started to enjoy watching him ride as he seemed to have grown up and ride more sympathetically but my opinion has changed now and i am glad he wasnt chosen, perhaps that will hit home....


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## Apercrumbie (14 August 2018)

Whatever we think of Oli's behaviour this year, it is bonkers to leave the number one rider at home. Yes his statement is a bit smug but I can't say I blame him, his form totally eclipses anyone else on the team. It's almost like we don't want to win!


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## cundlegreen (14 August 2018)

apercrumbie said:



			Whatever we think of Oli's behaviour this year, it is bonkers to leave the number one rider at home. Yes his statement is a bit smug but I can't say I blame him, his form totally eclipses anyone else on the team. It's almost like we don't want to win!
		
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I think horse welfare is under intense scrutiny atm, and giving a place to OT after the debacle at Badminton, would not be a good idea. World no 1 or not, I wouldn't want him riding my horses.


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## Apercrumbie (14 August 2018)

cundlegreen said:



			I think horse welfare is under intense scrutiny atm, and giving a place to OT after the debacle at Badminton, would not be a good idea. World no 1 or not, I wouldn't want him riding my horses.
		
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Fair enough but then they should come out and say it if that's the case. The advantages of social media is that poor riding now gets called out.


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## AdorableAlice (14 August 2018)

BE have simply taken the most sensible PR route and who can blame them.  The poor riding and media attention saga will fade and Mr Townend will be back on on the team in due course.  WEG has come too close to the unsavoury incidents and too close to the loss of some of his high profile sponsors who may also be involved in other aspects of BE sponsorship.

His rather trite statement is the only sensible and grown up thing he could do, but I bet you wouldn't want to be on his payroll at the minute, or perhaps the first horse to make a mistake under him.

Personally I don't think he should be representing GB just yet regardless of his world ranking.


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## claracanter (14 August 2018)

I feel so sorry for Laura. She has had such a fantastic year so far and by her response, is absolutely gutted not to be on the team. I'm not sure what else she could have done.

Here is a link to the team selection criteria which makes it even more baffling.
http://www.equestrianteamgbr.co.uk/media/2634/senior-selection-policy-final-june-2018.pdf


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## Lexi_ (14 August 2018)

DiNozzo said:



			Oli has released a statement...

Obviously, I am hugely disappointed not to have been selected to represent Great Britain at the 2018 World Equestrian Games as the current world number one.

I have given it everything I can with outstanding results, especially winning in Kentucky on Cooley Master Class and gaining second and fifth-placed finishes at Badminton with Cooley SRS and Ballaghmor Class on the back of winning Burghley.

It is not to be for me this time, but I wish all five riders selected for the team the very best in Tryon and I will be supporting them fully in their efforts to win the world title after our success in the European Championships last September.

Quite a smug sounding statement to me? Although to be fair, I don't like him as a rider so may be reading into it.

Collet hasn't been particularly professional either on her twitter page- retweeting lots of protest type posts.



Read more at https://www.horseandhound.co.uk/new...venting-team-named-661912#EcmIVdUCBiZPKJ7l.99

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I didnt read Olis statement as being smug, more just a bit defensive and not able to eff and jeff about it, so went down the proving his credentials route?

Lauras always very prone to that sort of retweeting, whether its positive or negative news. 

Still dont quite know what my reaction is tbh! Billy The Red seems an odd choice, given the recent issues, and I can only assume Arctic Soul is there because hes a reliable choice over the full length cross country course? Ive read in some article about the big hill at 8 mins in and the time looking difficult which would support it.


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## debbielinder (15 August 2018)

I think the selectors have done a great job. They were damned if they put Oli on the team and damned if they didn't. They couldn't please everyone and to be fair out of 9 team starts he has only gone clear cross country once. So that to me would have been the concern.  Ros was a dead cert for me. As was Tina to be honest the horse hasn't had his best season mostly down to lack of runs due to Tinas injury but looking back to the Europeans Billy the reds round was the round of the day for me and he's consistently clear SJ, plus her experience is invaluable. Same with Piggy, her horse is also very consistent and had some great results this year, dont think its had a pole all season. Gemma's decision not to run at Gatcombe possible had something to do with being long listed for WEG and the selectors can be 99.9% sure he will get round the cross country no bother. I'd say they have 5 with the potential to do a very good dressage and finish on that dressage score.


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## AFB (15 August 2018)

debbielinder said:



			I think the selectors have done a great job. They were damned if they put Oli on the team and damned if they didn't. They couldn't please everyone and to be fair out of 9 team starts he has only gone clear cross country once. So that to me would have been the concern.  Ros was a dead cert for me. As was Tina to be honest the horse hasn't had his best season mostly down to lack of runs due to Tinas injury but looking back to the Europeans Billy the reds round was the round of the day for me and he's consistently clear SJ, plus her experience is invaluable. Same with Piggy, her horse is also very consistent and had some great results this year, dont think its had a pole all season. Gemma's decision not to run at Gatcombe possible had something to do with being long listed for WEG and the selectors can be 99.9% sure he will get round the cross country no bother. I'd say they have 5 with the potential to do a very good dressage and finish on that dressage score.
		
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We have got a great team, I think the 'problem' was that we had too many good options to pick from. Worse problems to have... Gutted for OT and LC but SO SO pleased to see Ros on the team, she's on fire at the moment.


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## shortstuff99 (15 August 2018)

I also think it is weird that they didn't select Ollie, eventing can't be too bothered about image when Marilyn Little still gets selected for the US........


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## Denbob (15 August 2018)

Surely Marilyn Little is a US problem? British Eventing were faced with an impossible decision with OT and decided to opt for the least controversial - there's no denying that the public outcry (however you feel about his riding personally) was vile and they've chosen to play safe with public perception. They're still an excellent team and I'm very excited to be cheering them on - especially Ros!


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## Austen123 (15 August 2018)

When i was growing up, Tom McEwan was my neighbour and he kept his ponies in my parents' field with my pony (at the time). We went to school and pony club together so i am definitely happily Tom got in the team! Woohoo!


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## shortstuff99 (15 August 2018)

Denzel2017 said:



			Surely Marilyn Little is a US problem? British Eventing were faced with an impossible decision with OT and decided to opt for the least controversial - there's no denying that the public outcry (however you feel about his riding personally) was vile and they've chosen to play safe with public perception. They're still an excellent team and I'm very excited to be cheering them on - especially Ros!
		
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Although wouldn't it have been the perfect place to show that he has changed? And it is a sad day that a witch hunt is able to influence team selection so much. As yes his riding wasn't great but it was no worst than a lot of professional riders I see who are deified by the public and can do no wrong. But aside I think it is a reasonable team but they certainly haven't picked a winning team by a long way (although I would love to be proved wrong!)


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## teapot (15 August 2018)

apercrumbie said:



			Whatever we think of Oli's behaviour this year, it is bonkers to leave the number one rider at home. Yes his statement is a bit smug but I can't say I blame him, his form totally eclipses anyone else on the team. It's almost like we don't want to win!
		
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First aim of WEG 2018 is to secure a place at Tokyo, second aim is to win gold. 

Read the selection policy, it's fairly clear cut.


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## Apercrumbie (15 August 2018)

teapot said:



			First aim of WEG 2018 is to secure a place at Tokyo, second aim is to win gold. 

Read the selection policy, it's fairly clear cut.
		
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I did read it yesterday but will do so again - is there a particular part that you're referring to?


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## Apercrumbie (15 August 2018)

teapot said:



			This is one of the selection criteria 'Demonstration of  behaviour that indicates a commitment to a positive team environment  both on and off the field of play'.
		
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I believe this is what you're referring to (taken from the other thread). One criteria out of many and I don't think all team members selected really fulfil the performance criterion. Still don't get it.


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## teapot (15 August 2018)

apercrumbie said:



			I did read it yesterday but will do so again - is there a particular part that you're referring to?
		
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Page 1 refers to the aims of sending a team to WEG, with medals second and third objective, not first.

Page 4 and 5, especially the bold bullet points on page 5 are about team selection. From reading that pdf, I can totally understand why OT and LC haven't been chosen in favour of the five that have.


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## Velcrobum (15 August 2018)

Mr Bass has only had 4 completions this year with the last one being in May. He did dressage and SJ at Aston-le-walls in the "WEG section" but did not run XC in July. There were at least 2 of voting members of the selection panel there as well as the Richard Waygood and Chris Bartle. I wonder if there has been an injury issue that Joe public is not privy to.


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## TheOldTrout (15 August 2018)

Velcrobum said:



			Mr Bass has only had 4 completions this year with the last one being in May. He did dressage and SJ at Aston-le-walls in the "WEG section" but did not run XC in July. There were at least 2 of voting members of the selection panel there as well as the Richard Waygood and Chris Bartle. I wonder if there has been an injury issue that Joe public is not privy to.
		
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I thought he was second at Luhmuhlen?


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## claracanter (15 August 2018)

Velcrobum said:



			Mr Bass has only had 4 completions this year with the last one being in May. He did dressage and SJ at Aston-le-walls in the "WEG section" but did not run XC in July. There were at least 2 of voting members of the selection panel there as well as the Richard Waygood and Chris Bartle. I wonder if there has been an injury issue that Joe public is not privy to.
		
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I thought that but then would she have reacted like she did on her Twitter if that was the case!


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## Goldenstar (15 August 2018)

AdorableAlice said:



			BE have simply taken the most sensible PR route and who can blame them.  The poor riding and media attention saga will fade and Mr Townend will be back on on the team in due course.  WEG has come too close to the unsavoury incidents and too close to the loss of some of his high profile sponsors who may also be involved in other aspects of BE sponsorship.

His rather trite statement is the only sensible and grown up thing he could do, but I bet you wouldn't want to be on his payroll at the minute, or perhaps the first horse to make a mistake under him.

Personally I don't think he should be representing GB just yet regardless of his world ranking.
		
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I agree with AA on this .
Its about more who has the most horses and is winning the most points .
I am very sorry for LC though .


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## Branna (16 August 2018)

Velcrobum said:



			Mr Bass has only had 4 completions this year with the last one being in May. He did dressage and SJ at Aston-le-walls in the "WEG section" but did not run XC in July. There were at least 2 of voting members of the selection panel there as well as the Richard Waygood and Chris Bartle. I wonder if there has been an injury issue that Joe public is not privy to.
		
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He would have had some time off competing after Luhmuhlen as they all do after a 4 star. And she finished 3rd in the nation's cup at Haras du Pin this weekend with a double clear.
I wonder if she would have been better off going to hartpury as 4 of the 5 selected did, as (according to someone on fb!) the final selection meeting was there after the 3 star.


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## pepsimaxrock (16 August 2018)

Tina Cook seems invincible. Didnt she cross her tracks last time out for the team and described her sending off as technical when in fact she just went wrong and she knew it.  She just gets shoed in again. Where is she in the world rankings?  Way behind those left out thats for sure.


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## Branna (16 August 2018)

pepsimaxrock said:



			Tina Cook seems invincible. Didnt she cross her tracks last time out for the team and described her sending off as technical when in fact she just went wrong and she knew it.  She just gets shoed in again. Where is she in the world rankings?  Way behind those left out thats for sure.
		
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Honestly don't know what you are referring to? She was 4th at the Europeans last year. If you look at her record on the fei database for major results, she has form for delivering brilliant team performances. 
She had a nasty fall earlier this year which was why many thought she wouldn't make the cut, but she has come back with a 3* win at hartpury and clearly the selectors think she will do the job again!


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## Turitea (16 August 2018)

My guess the reason for leaving OT off the team is a clash of personalities? When CB trained the German team I vividly remember at least three interviews in which he emphasized the importance of "trainable riders" (as in riders who listen and like to learn regardless of their status) and of team mentality. I do not know OT, hence I could be totally wrong here. However this is the only reason I could think of.


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## NikNak1 (16 August 2018)

Personally I am not surprised about Mr Bass. Think it is maybe just a year too soon as he is only 10 I think. His time will definitely come though as obviously has a lot of potential!
I would probably have selected ollie myself but as someone mentioned elsewhere I think he has a pretty bad record at team level! I think only 1 clear from 9 attempts or something? And at least 2 times when he has withdraw from trot up on last day. So maybe not a great team member for some reason, especially looking ahead to the Olympics where all members will count....
I wonder why his form is relatively poor at championships when he has pretty consistent results elsewhere and under pressure....?


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## caladria (16 August 2018)

Velcrobum said:



			Mr Bass has only had 4 completions this year with the last one being in May. He did dressage and SJ at Aston-le-walls in the "WEG section" but did not run XC in July. There were at least 2 of voting members of the selection panel there as well as the Richard Waygood and Chris Bartle. I wonder if there has been an injury issue that Joe public is not privy to.
		
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Except, Quarrycrest Echo did exactly the same (completed Luhmuelen, ran dressage and SJ Aston Le Walls in July, and then completed a CIC*** last weekend), and Ceylor LAN did exactly the same (Luhmuelen, Aston, CIC*** last weekend), but ran XC at Aston. And those were the only three British longlisted horses to complete Luhmuehlen (Billy the Red and Bulana didn't complete).

So I'm going to guess that that was a team-agreed plan of action for those three, rather than a soundness thing. 



NikNak1 said:



			Personally I am not surprised about Mr Bass. Think it is maybe just a year too soon as he is only 10 I think. His time will definitely come though as obviously has a lot of potential!
I would probably have selected ollie myself but as someone mentioned elsewhere I think he has a pretty bad record at team level! I think only 1 clear from 9 attempts or something? And at least 2 times when he has withdraw from trot up on last day. So maybe not a great team member for some reason, especially looking ahead to the Olympics where all members will count....
I wonder why his form is relatively poor at championships when he has pretty consistent results elsewhere and under pressure...?
		
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I wonder if Bulana would have been on the team, had the soundness issue not occurred. Because minus Quarrycrest Echo and add Bulana, that's a team of horses with multiple good showings at 4* and/or championships. And after all, they took a team of horses to Rio and the only placing in the top 25 was the horse with proven 4* experience!

So I wonder if it was rider inexperience combined with horse inexperience that kept LC and Mr Bass off the team...?

I mean, Quarrycrest Echo has the same amount of experience as Mr Bass, but PF is a more experienced/proven championship rider than LC (who has only been on two senior teams, I think?).

And Tom McEwan has less experience than LC on championship teams, but he is on a horse with 4 x good 4* completions, including two Badmintons and a Burghley.

As you say, Mr Bass will hopefully have a lot more chances to be on teams, and the pairing have a chance to show the selectors what they missed at Burghley. By the time it comes to the Europeans next year, he might have 3 x 4* completions and be much harder to ignore if all has gone well for him!


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## Sophire (16 August 2018)

I'm glad to come on here and see others as shocked as I was to see OT missing from the final 5. I know a lot are surprised about the omission of LC, but I'm actually less surprised by that. Mr Bass is a phenomenal horse, and barring rider/ horse injury, I fully expect to see that horse at Tokyo in 2020, despite his record, he wouldn't have been a shoe in for me.
I wouldn't have put OT up there on Ballaghmor Class but would have expected to see him on either of the Cooley horses. As someone else has said, how does someone prove themselves after poor team performances, than be put on another team. His results all round speak for themselves and I don't think his statement was smug at all. I've never considered myself an OT fan in particular but this year seems to be making it appear as though I am one!

All of the above being said, I'm not sure I could talk any of those selected, out of a space. I was surprised by Billy the Red following his recent dressage blow-ups and had the same thought as someone else re Arctic Soul and the ground.


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## teapot (16 August 2018)

pepsimaxrock said:



			Tina Cook seems invincible. Didn&#8217;t she cross her tracks last time out for the team and described her sending off as &#8216;technical&#8217; when in fact she just went wrong and she knew it.  She just gets shoed in again. Where is she in the world rankings?  Way behind those left out that&#8217;s for sure.
		
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Errr no. Tina was fourth the Euros last year, has a team record that some can only hope of acheiving, and is the definition of a team GB member.

You also need some of Tina's experience, level headedness, and older, more mature outlook in what is a pretty young experienced team.


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## MagicMelon (16 August 2018)

only_me said:



			He produced the results yet hasn&#8217;t been acknowledged for it.
		
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Im glad, after his behaviour Im delighted BE have possibly taken his cruddy attitude into account. Hes so arrogant. I hate to think how he got those results...


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## Sophire (17 August 2018)

So why long-list him in the first place if that's the reason for him not being selected? Long-listing him on 3 horses shows he has the results on 3(!!) horses to be considered. If his results don't count and he's not being selected on principle following his Badminton performance and previous team history, why waste everyone's time, not least of all his and the horses, trying to prove themselves as viable candidates.


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## Branna (17 August 2018)

Sophire said:



			So why long-list him in the first place if that's the reason for him not being selected? Long-listing him on 3 horses shows he has the results on 3(!!) horses to be considered. If his results don't count and he's not being selected on principle following his Badminton performance and previous team history, why waste everyone's time, not least of all his and the horses, trying to prove themselves as viable candidates.
		
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I honestly don't think it is a principle thing. I think that the selectors believe that the 5 horses & riders they have chosen have a higher probability of getting a solid result for Olympic qualification than those they haven't selected.

And for those asking why he wouldn't have the individual spot, I assume that they are not taking a travelling reserve therefore the individual needs to be thought of as a reliable team member also.


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## bongo-girl (19 August 2018)

Sophire said:



			So why long-list him in the first place if that's the reason for him not being selected? Long-listing him on 3 horses shows he has the results on 3(!!) horses to be considered. If his results don't count and he's not being selected on principle following his Badminton performance and previous team history, why waste everyone's time, not least of all his and the horses, trying to prove themselves as viable candidates.
		
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This was my feeling....it would be strange to invest time and money or long listing the three horses if they were never going to be called up.  But there are probably reasons we will never know...


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## Honey08 (19 August 2018)

Surely the long list always includes a good few horses that don't get in.  The selectors pick who they think will be most suitable out of the whole lot?  Some people on the long list are going to lose out.

I'm happy with the result.  We have good selectors and trainers, who know what they're doing.  I was dubious about the last team picked and we won...

I don't think Oli is a team player or a suitable British eventing ambassador.  We don't know what has gone on behind the scenes, we only saw his riding at Badminton, there could have been more arguements and awkwardness.   A team member needs to take direction and not just focus on winning and being no 1.  He may well win Burghley and everyone will be up in arms that he's not included, but it doesn't mean he'd have been great on the team..

I'm pleased that Tina is included, she somehow always seems to perform slightly better on a team.  I'm also happy to see Arctic Soul on the team, I've always wanted him to be on previous teams, rather than her other less experienced horses.  As for the others, I was struggling to choose!  I would have had Nicola Wilson on there too if it had been possible.

It will be an interesting competition- there are some great teams to beat and it will be a fairly novice team, despite all the individuals being strong.


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## Custard Cream (22 August 2018)

Is it not well known OT doesn't train with CB? I imagine that's a thorny issue?


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## ihatework (22 August 2018)

Custard Cream said:



			Is it not well known OT doesn't train with CB? I imagine that's a thorny issue?
		
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He&#8217;s not the only one left off the list that doesn&#8217;t train with CB ....


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## googol (23 August 2018)

Agree with this. But to start with I have an issue with the word obviously. Especially coming from Ollie lol


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## Fellewell (25 August 2018)

I have just bought a copy of H&H with the express purpose of reading Mark Phillips&#8217; column. He seems to think Oliver Townend is leaving us and naturally he&#8217;s concerned.
I&#8217;m concerned that we have a man who wants to ride for his country but is not being allowed to. Have they just arbitrarily imposed a ban where previously there was none? (or, under current BE rules, provision for one) this seems grossly unfair. 
Seems to me that people are more upset at Oliver&#8217;s comments after the alleged event. I think that shoving a microphone into someone&#8217;s face with the sole purpose of provoking a controversial response is bad form and shouldn&#8217;t be allowed. I can think of another celebrated Yorkshireman and a proposed disciplinary action circa 1971. Had anyone had the gall to provoke a response from Harvey Smith the microphone would have needed surgical removal.
If we&#8217;re going to throw sporting legends under the bus every time there&#8217;s a hint of PR fail we are shooting ourselves in the foot and playing right into the hands of the small but vociferous lobby who would prefer that horses were not used in sport at all. 
I found a wonderful quote from Andrew Nicholson:
&#8230;you make mistakes when you&#8217;re young and naïve for being a little too ambitious. But then that comes back again when you&#8217;re experienced and successful, and you&#8217;re wanting to win it, not just wanting to make the numbers up and you start pushing the boundaries a little too far. So yes, those things keep occurring. You can either stay in the steady lane when you&#8217;re very experienced, and get a place, or you can pull out into the fast lane now and again and have a chance of winning, except when you do that, mistakes can happen&#8230;
Wise words indeed.


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## claracanter (25 August 2018)

Do you mean OT is thinking of changing nationality, Fellewell?


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## Fellewell (26 August 2018)

claracanter said:



			Do you mean OT is thinking of changing nationality, Fellewell?
		
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Well, Yorkshire could become an internationally-recognised state I suppose but I was picking up on Mark Phillips' comments. Oliver Townend is world number one and he didn't get there without being able to see/create opportunities. However, my response to your initial question would be eckers like.


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## claracanter (26 August 2018)

Fellewell said:



			I have just bought a copy of H&H with the express purpose of reading Mark Phillips column. He seems to think Oliver Townend is leaving us and naturally hes concerned.
.
		
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I read this as meaning he is thinking of changing nationalities.


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## teapot (26 August 2018)

See I read it as implying OT would go the same way as Nicholson and simply not be available. Could be wrong though.


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## claracanter (26 August 2018)

teapot said:



			See I read it as implying OT would go the same way as Nicholson and simply not be available. Could be wrong though.
		
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Yes, I see. That makes sense.


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## Rowreach (26 August 2018)

Fellewell said:



			I have just bought a copy of H&H with the express purpose of reading Mark Phillips&#8217; column. He seems to think Oliver Townend is leaving us and naturally he&#8217;s concerned.
I&#8217;m concerned that we have a man who wants to ride for his country but is not being allowed to. Have they just arbitrarily imposed a ban where previously there was none? (or, under current BE rules, provision for one) this seems grossly unfair. 
Seems to me that people are more upset at Oliver&#8217;s comments after the alleged event. I think that shoving a microphone into someone&#8217;s face with the sole purpose of provoking a controversial response is bad form and shouldn&#8217;t be allowed. I can think of another celebrated Yorkshireman and a proposed disciplinary action circa 1971. Had anyone had the gall to provoke a response from Harvey Smith the microphone would have needed surgical removal.
If we&#8217;re going to throw sporting legends under the bus every time there&#8217;s a hint of PR fail we are shooting ourselves in the foot and playing right into the hands of the small but vociferous lobby who would prefer that horses were not used in sport at all. 
I found a wonderful quote from Andrew Nicholson:
&#8230;you make mistakes when you&#8217;re young and naïve for being a little too ambitious. But then that comes back again when you&#8217;re experienced and successful, and you&#8217;re wanting to win it, not just wanting to make the numbers up and you start pushing the boundaries a little too far. So yes, those things keep occurring. You can either stay in the steady lane when you&#8217;re very experienced, and get a place, or you can pull out into the fast lane now and again and have a chance of winning, except when you do that, mistakes can happen&#8230;
Wise words indeed.
		
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You make some very valid points.

Trial by media/Facebook/HHO is never a pleasant thing.

And then a few weeks after Badminton I saw things (well, one thing in particular) at Tatts which showed with glaring clarity the way "popular" riders are treated differently to the "unpopular" (or maybe blunter, less PR savvy) ones.


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## splashgirl45 (26 August 2018)

Rowreach said:



			You make some very valid points.

Trial by media/Facebook/HHO is never a pleasant thing.

And then a few weeks after Badminton I saw things (well, one thing in particular) at Tatts which showed with glaring clarity the way "popular" riders are treated differently to the "unpopular" (or maybe blunter, less PR savvy) ones.
		
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i wasnt upset by his comments, i was upset at the way he rode the grey horse and i wonder, if he was an unknown ,would the stewards have made him pull up , .  he came 2nd in the masters today and had another dig, its about time he grew up IMO...


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## Rowreach (26 August 2018)

splashgirl45 said:



			i wasnt upset by his comments, i was upset at the way he rode the grey horse and i wonder, if he was an unknown ,would the stewards have made him pull up , .  he came 2nd in the masters today and had another dig, its about time he grew up IMO...
		
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Ok, but what I saw at Tatts was equally deserving of censure, but it involved a much more popular rider, and there was no action taken by the GJ nor any media storm afterwards. Obviously not such a high profile televised event, but my point stands.  Nobody said to the Tatts rider "So when your horse tried to stop and you whacked him over the fence, lurched over the next one and then he fell two fences later, did you not consider that you should have pulled up?"  Nope it was OH dear, poor X, I hope they're ok.


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## ihatework (26 August 2018)

Rowreach said:



			Ok, but what I saw at Tatts was equally deserving of censure, but it involved a much more popular rider, and there was no action taken by the GJ nor any media storm afterwards. Obviously not such a high profile televised event, but my point stands.  Nobody said to the Tatts rider "So when your horse tried to stop and you whacked him over the fence, lurched over the next one and then he fell two fences later, did you not consider that you should have pulled up?"  Nope it was OH dear, poor X, I hope they're ok.
		
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Precisely. Rules need to be applied fairly across the board. Disciplinaries dished out as appropriate, then move on.

I don&#8217;t condone Olis riding at badminton. But I would fully understand if he withdrew himself from british team availability.


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## splashgirl45 (26 August 2018)

i agree the other well known rider should have been warned or stopped  if they were riding a worn out horse who then fell.  i didnt see that so cannot comment but the rules regarding horse welfare should apply to all and not just the unknown riders.  i think that in olly's case he made a mistake and should make sure that it never happens again.  im not sure that i want to win medals at the expense of horse welfare if people feel that they have to force a horse to finish the c/c when they are obviously as knackered as the grey horse was.  when olly dismounted it was swaying on its back legs and looked like it could collapse and they quickly made it walk on.  i know you shouldnt let the horse stand still when they have made a big effort c/c but they were very quick to move him....the decision to not include him may have other reasons, only the selectors know why....


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## claracanter (26 August 2018)

After the last fence today at Blair, OT was waving the whip but not using it. It was like a jockey would do to encourage a horse. Also when he went over the finish line, he made a fuss of the horse, patting it lots, lovely to see.He looked like he had learnt his lesson.


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## {97702} (26 August 2018)

claracanter said:



			After the last fence today at Blair, OT was waving the whip but not using it. It was like a jockey would do to encourage a horse. Also when he went over the finish line, he made a fuss of the horse, patting it lots, lovely to see.He looked like he had learnt his lesson.
		
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 As as natural cyniic\\\\\\\

Ditto.... too late you haven't been selected.....


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## Bustermartin (27 August 2018)

Lévrier;13831404 said:
			
		


			As as natural cyniic\\\\\\\

Ditto.... too late you haven't been selected..... 

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^^^^^^^ this


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## Fellewell (27 August 2018)

Rowreach said:



			You make some very valid points.

Trial by media/Facebook/HHO is never a pleasant thing.

And then a few weeks after Badminton I saw things (well, one thing in particular) at Tatts which showed with glaring clarity the way "popular" riders are treated differently to the "unpopular" (or maybe blunter, less PR savvy) ones.
		
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As you say in your other post, not such a high profile televised event. There's no point jumping on the virtue signalling bandwagon unless it's really going to raise your profile. Meanwhile, up and down the country horses are being routinely fed to death and ridden while hopping lame. I'd like my money/attention to go there on education.


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## CoachinaCar (27 August 2018)

Fellewell said:



			As you say in your other post, not such a high profile televised event. There's no point jumping on the virtue signalling bandwagon unless it's really going to raise your profile. Meanwhile, up and down the country horses are being routinely fed to death and ridden while hopping lame. I'd like my money/attention to go there on education.
		
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Just because another rider may have ridden badly or other people do not look after their horses as you do it does not excuse what Oli did. The rider at Blair should also have been spoken to by GJ and maybe if it was televised it would have caused the same media storm, we will never know but as I say because that rider seemed to get away with it does not make what Oli did ok or mean he should have been included in the team. He needs to prove he can ride round a cross country course without hitting his horse unfairly which is what he appeared to do.


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## Lexi_ (27 August 2018)

CoachinaCar said:



			Just because another rider may have ridden badly or other people do not look after their horses as you do it does not excuse what Oli did. The rider at Blair should also have been spoken to by GJ and maybe if it was televised it would have caused the same media storm, we will never know but as I say because that rider seemed to get away with it does not make what Oli did ok or mean he should have been included in the team. He needs to prove he can ride round a cross country course without hitting his horse unfairly which is what he appeared to do.
		
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Does your last sentence refer to Oli? He's been riding those rounds pretty much every weekend since Badminton - I saw about 6 of them last weekend at Somerford. I could easily name you a handful of other 4* riders who were far more unpleasant to watch.


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## Mule (27 August 2018)

If he or any other rider chooses not to make themselves available for a future team because they haven't been selected this time they wouldn't be any loss imo.

 There are plenty of good riders who are passed over. Those that flounce off don't make for good team members. They aren't the types that coaches want to work with either.


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## TPO (31 August 2018)

Lévrier;13831404 said:
			
		


			As as natural cyniic\\\\\\\

Ditto.... too late you haven't been selected..... 

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Exactly! We all commented on the "show" at Blair that was completely out of the norm even pre Badders


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