# keeping an un-neutered bitch



## MotherOfChickens (23 January 2016)

I usually stick to boys when it comes to dogs and horses-I did have a little bitch years ago and she was neutered as she was a rescue. I am considering taking on an as yet, un-neutered 3yo bitch (no intention of breeding) and would like to know the health pros and cons of neutering and not neutering please.


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## Bellasophia (23 January 2016)

Here are a long list of links for you ..very informative...pros and cons ..

http://www.schnauzer-forum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=9628

I've had ten females in my life,and only two males..most of the females were spayed but the males were entire.
 I have spayed my latest schnauzer female after her first season,simply because she lives with an intact male..otherwise I would have preferred to leave her to have at least a second season .
My large breed dogs,a rottie and then a dogue de Bordeaux were both spayed around three..so fully developed and less risk for incontinence and bone cancers etc.
My two standard poodles were spayed late...one at six and the other at eight..due to health issues..one was auto immune insufficient..the latter was seizure prone so we didn't want to spay at all,but her seasons wer becoming erratic and overlong.(pyo risk).
In an all female household I was fine with having entire females but would not want to risk this with an intact male in the house.
It was restrictive having a female in season,not being able to let her off lead etc..and I am so pleased to have my latest girl free of worry.However she is tending to gain weight so this is a downside and we are carefully monitoring her diet and increasing excercise to try to keep her slim.

For me the biggest worry in having an intact female is the risk of pyometriosis
Every time the cervix opens ,bacteria will enter the uterus..so often two months after a season you run the risk of a uterus infection...this can be fatal within 24 hrs if not picked up on. .symptoms are subtle..increased drinking, a temp and sometimes listless.
Also mammary tumors are very common here in Italy where many still don't spay their females.


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## MurphysMinder (23 January 2016)

I have kept females entire, but the majority have been spayed later in life.   I lost a much loved bitch a few years ago at 12 years of age from pyometra,  I just had never got round to having her spayed. My current 2 aged 8 and 4 are both spayed, and I would never again keep a bitch into old age without spaying.  I have never had problems with them putting on weight after spaying, and whereas one did become slightly urinary incontinent in old age , so did another entire bitch so cant really put it down to spaying.


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## Dobermonkey (23 January 2016)

My friends 12yr old boxer X is currently dying from mammory tumours which have spread to her spleen and now showing n her lungs.  Also had a recent pyometra scare .  Not long till she gets a final helping hand.  I would never have a bitch but am all for it when the time is right


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## Clodagh (23 January 2016)

We never used to have them spayed and if you don't mind bloody carpets twice a year their coats and so on are nicer if left whole, IMO. We have ours spayed for purely selfish reasons, if they were kenneled we would probably leave them intact, the working terriers were never done.


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## SusieT (23 January 2016)

Always always spay bitches. Many of them will get and die from (with or without surgery) pyometra. Get her spayed once she's yours if you get her- they bounce back quickly/


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## Possum (23 January 2016)

We lost our springer at 8 to a mammary tumour that metastasized.  She was spayed at 7, and late/no spaying is associated with a substantially higher risk of this type of cancer occurring.


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## MotherOfChickens (23 January 2016)

thanks all-I will do some reading up. I quite fancied a setter bitch next time I get a setter and I'd be reluctant to spay given the coat issue. (this isn't a setter). I've always said if I got another male setter, I wouldn't neuter.

Carpets not a problem, we don't have any  given that 12 years is pretty old physiologically speaking I am not sure that risk of a non-neutered problem at that age puts me off alone (last dog was 12 when PTS, current dog will be twelve the way he's going-both neutered males, different breeds. The spayed bitch I lost in an RTA, much to my shame). 

The last bitch I had, she'd have been neutered in the early 90s, she still have some mammary tissue and still spotted a bit. Is leaving some mammary tissue not done anymore? I will chat with some vets as well btw


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## blackcob (23 January 2016)

Useful summary of health benefits/negatives: http://www.2ndchance.info/cruciatelongtermneuter.htm. If only because of the risk of pyo I would always spay a bitch.


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## SusieT (23 January 2016)

I find it very ahrd to believe that people avoid an operation that takes away the 25% risk of pyometra in case the coat is a differnet texture . Dogs die regularly from pyometra, it costs more to operate when they are sick with it and they are older dogs who dont cope as well with a GA. Mammary tissue is not removed at spay- I think you do need to chat to your vets who will tell you that leaving a bitch entire is an opening to health problems that are so so avoidable - I cannot emphasis how silly it is NOT to spay a bitch. Males are different - the health benefits are 50:50 neuter/un neutered so I'm all for personal choice there.


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## MotherOfChickens (23 January 2016)

SusieT said:



			I find it very ahrd to believe that people avoid an operation that takes away the 25% risk of pyometra in case the coat is a differnet texture . Dogs die regularly from pyometra, it costs more to operate when they are sick with it and they are older dogs who dont cope as well with a GA. Mammary tissue is not removed at spay- I think you do need to chat to your vets who will tell you that leaving a bitch entire is an opening to health problems that are so so avoidable - I cannot emphasis how silly it is NOT to spay a bitch. Males are different - the health benefits are 50:50 neuter/un neutered so I'm all for personal choice there.
		
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well this is why I am asking and when the vets are open, I'll ask them-I also work with a lot of vets although they tend to be LA. My ex (a SA surgeon) was surprised that my old bitch still had mammary tissue but it was a long time ago so maybe I am not remembering correctly.


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## GinaB (23 January 2016)

I have never heard of the coat issue before. All three of mine are bitches and all 3 are spayed. Tess (mini schnauzer) was done after her first season. She's clipped and has a 'normal' (as far as I'm aware!) schnauzer coat. Jess was spayed before we got her, she's lab X rottie X possible collie and get coat is lovely. Soft and seriously shiny. Rua was spayed at the age of around 18 months, not long after I got her. She came into season shortly after she came home so had to wait. She has what I would call a normal Labrador coat. 

Having watched the absolute heartbreak of people who have lost bitches at a young age due to pyo, it's a no brainer for me.


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## MotherOfChickens (23 January 2016)

GinaB its my understanding its more prevalent in setters and spaniels. I took a lot of advice on it before getting one and its the main reason I didnt get a bitch-because I would want to spay due to the risk of pyo and that it would knacker their coat. Most vets I spoke to agreed it would in bitches but there was a better chance it wouldn't in a dog. All the breeders I asked (setters and spaniels) told me it would in either sex. I got a dog, had to have him neutered due to a retained testicle and it did change his coat. All vets I spoke to afterwards told me that yes, it would have done. Vets can be as biased as the next person, I will talk to as many as I can, I will talk to dog owners, I'll review all the references helpfully given on this thread and I will make a decision. I've not even met her yet!

I also understand a coat is secondary issue to other health problems. I wouldn't not neuter a dog solely on basis of coat. However, if you do want a breed such as an Irish Setter, coat does come into it as its part of the appearance of the breed you are attracted to. There are lots of dogs I don't care for the look of, each to their own. TBH after 20 years of shaggy dogs, a short hair will be a weird relief!


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## GinaB (23 January 2016)

Interesting that it changes their coats! And the two types it happens in. I know two spaniels - one a springer bitch that is in-neutered and one show breed cocker spaniel that is. However, they clip her coat (against groomer advice) and it is quite odd! It's very soft and fluffy, has no waterproofing qualities at all.


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## MotherOfChickens (23 January 2016)

GinaB said:



			Interesting that it changes their coats! And the two types it happens in. I know two spaniels - one a springer bitch that is in-neutered and one show breed cocker spaniel that is. However, they clip her coat (against groomer advice) and it is quite odd! It's very soft and fluffy, has no waterproofing qualities at all.
		
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yes, it goes very cotton-woolly and matts at the drop of a hat. It's a lot of extra work and never looks as good again.


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## ILuvCowparsely (23 January 2016)

MotherOfChickens said:



			I usually stick to boys when it comes to dogs and horses-I did have a little bitch years ago and she was neutered as she was a rescue. I am considering taking on an as yet, un-neutered 3yo bitch (no intention of breeding) and would like to know the health pros and cons of neutering and not neutering please.
		
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We have  northern inuit - and were going to keep her un neutered to breed but then , I thought no I don't have time for 9 puppies and don't want to be left caring for them so we/I nutted her.  Mammary tumours is one thing we don't want.  There are enough dogs in the world to breed more same with kids.


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## MotherOfChickens (23 January 2016)

HGA-12 said:



			We have  northern inuit - and were going to keep her un neutered to breed but then , I thought no I don't have time for 9 puppies and don't want to be left caring for them so we/I nutted her.  Mammary tumours is one thing we don't want.  There are enough dogs in the world to breed more same with kids.
		
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she's never bred, she won't ever be bred from-puppies, unwanted or otherwise are not the issue. And what do kids have to do with it?


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## Possum (23 January 2016)

Our male Newf is unneutered mainly to preserve his coat so I completely understand that it's a motivation. But we deliberately got a boy so we didn't have to neuter, if we had got a girl we would have done regardless of the effect.


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## MotherOfChickens (23 January 2016)

Possum said:



			Our male Newf is unneutered mainly to preserve his coat so I completely understand that it's a motivation. But we deliberately got a boy so we didn't have to neuter, if we had got a girl we would have done regardless of the effect.
		
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coat is not a consideration for this particular bitch


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## Elsbells (23 January 2016)

How strange to see this thread tonight!? 

I had my re home collie bitch of 3 months (2yr old) spayed on Thursday. She is a beautiful Blue Merle whose always complimented whenever she leaves the house so the temptation to let her have pups has been great. But ultimately I knew I couldn't cope with maybe 9 of her as georgeou though she is, there wouldn't be any benefit for us and the later health implications made the decision for us tbh. 

I rang around all the local vets looking for one that would do an overectamy which leaves the euterous intact as I'd fought for one for my Dobe girl 7 years earlier and found to my delight and surprise that the vet I'd convinced to do it then, now does it as a matter of course! 

The draw back is we can't exercise her off lead for 2 weeks and she's feeling a bit strange but this is only temporary and although I've always left my boys entire, I've yet to have a bitch so.


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## MotherOfChickens (23 January 2016)

thank you Elsbells, worth seeing if its available around here


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## SusieT (23 January 2016)

Elsbells out of interst what made you want an ovaiectomy over the full job?


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## Elsbells (23 January 2016)

SusieT said:



			Elsbells out of interst what made you want an ovaiectomy over the full job?
		
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I guess the main reason was the possible incontinence problems in the fully spayed bitch that I'd seen over the years and I was looking for something better so I did my research. After reading as much as I could and looking at all the pros and cons it made a lot of good sense. Why remove it all when there's no need? In fact its a positive not to. So I decided to let my Dobe bitch have at least 2 cycles, then just have the ovaries removed.

My vet then eventually said, "right I'll do as you ask, but I will check the euterous. If it looks nice, healthy and pink, I will leave it. If it doesn't I will remove it." 
I agreed of course and the op went ahead.

My Dobe never suffered with any problems and was a good healthy girl till the day she died from her unknown DCM out on a run in the sun with her dad at the age of 10.


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## Bellasophia (24 January 2016)

It's common practice in Europe to remove only the ovaries,especially in a young dog whose uterus is healthy..my schnauzer had this and recovery was the fastest I've seen in all my girls...by day two she was" back to normal" and the main issue was keeping her quiet.
The dogs scar is smaller,pain factor less,recovery faster..
The vets say the uterus atrophies without its hormones,so no risk of pyo.

http://www.petmd.com/blogs/fullyvet...s-ovariohysterectomy-veterinary-medicine-6658

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9404289


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## ILuvCowparsely (24 January 2016)

MotherOfChickens said:



			she's never bred, she won't ever be bred from-puppies, unwanted or otherwise are not the issue. And what do kids have to do with it?
		
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Nothing really just  voicing why we opted out of puppies was the same why we chose not to have kinds. Too many in the world, and also cancer risk later on..


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## MotherOfChickens (24 January 2016)

So I wonder why vasectomies in dogs aren't on offer more-I realise that it won't change other male behaviours but then, it could be done later on if needs be. This would be more desirable in large breed dogs than castration surely given the known effects of early castration.


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## Amymay (24 January 2016)

We spayed our little bitch. It was a no brainer really. We didn't want to breed and I was concerned about health risks later on in her life. Her coat hasn't changed, but maybe in her breed (bichon) they tend not to, I don't know.


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## GinaB (24 January 2016)

MotherOfChickens said:



			So I wonder why vasectomies in dogs aren't on offer more-I realise that it won't change other male behaviours but then, it could be done later on if needs be. This would be more desirable in large breed dogs than castration surely given the known effects of early castration.
		
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I would imagine as castration is such a quick and very (usually) straight forward surgery? Whereas with a vasectomy you're delving in more. 

Maybe &#128516;


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## MotherOfChickens (24 January 2016)

GinaB said:



			I would imagine as castration is such a quick and very (usually) straight forward surgery? Whereas with a vasectomy you're delving in more. 

Maybe &#55357;&#56836;
		
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well, husband says he knows what he'd prefer  

I once assisted when a vet I worked for had to vasectomise a colony of marmosets-now that was fiddly.


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## deicinmerlyn (24 January 2016)

My two pups (jack Russell's) have just had their first season.  I would like to now get them spayed but not sure how long I should wait and what are peoples opinions on keyhole spaying?


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## {97702} (24 January 2016)

MotherOfChickens said:



			So I wonder why vasectomies in dogs aren't on offer more-I realise that it won't change other male behaviours but then, it could be done later on if needs be. This would be more desirable in large breed dogs than castration surely given the known effects of early castration.
		
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Oh god that reminds me of Vasectomy-gate....... a man who I met whilst fundraising for GRWE wanted to adopt a rescue greyhound/lurcher but refused to have it castrated, demanding it was given a vasectomy instead to avoid injuring the dog's masculinity...  It made the front page of the BBC news website at the time, the man was somewhat (ahem) discredited as being a unusual personality at the best of times, and the dog in question was quietly re-homed with a friend of mine


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## Alec Swan (24 January 2016)

GinaB said:



			.. with a vasectomy you're delving in more. 

Maybe &#128516;
		
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Not so. :wink3: It would perhaps be a bit more fiddly,  tying off chords and the like,  but not nearly so invasive,  I wouldn't have thought.

Alec.


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## MotherOfChickens (24 January 2016)

Lévrier;13153715 said:
			
		


			Oh god that reminds me of Vasectomy-gate....... a man who I met whilst fundraising for GRWE wanted to adopt a rescue greyhound/lurcher but refused to have it castrated, demanding it was given a vasectomy instead to avoid injuring the dog's masculinity...  It made the front page of the BBC news website at the time, the man was somewhat (ahem) discredited as being a unusual personality at the best of times, and the dog in question was quietly re-homed with a friend of mine 

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But why is the thought so strange? Given the problems in neutering male dogs, why not vasectomise them instead?


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## Dobiegirl (24 January 2016)

MotherOfChickens said:



			But why is the thought so strange? Given the problems in neutering male dogs, why not vasectomise them instead?
		
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Why would you do this though, it doesnt stop the dog from having urges and they can still mate but obviously firing blanks, you either have them neutered or you dont.

Levrier I remember that, chuckled about that for days, wasnt he going to sue them lol?


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## MotherOfChickens (25 January 2016)

&#374;



Dobiegirl said:



			Why would you do this though, it doesnt stop the dog from having urges and they can still mate but obviously firing blanks, you either have them neutered or you dont.

Levrier I remember that, chuckled about that for days, wasnt he going to sue them lol?
		
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Because of the health issues associated with castration in dogs-especially large breeds. Not all dogs all the time but as an option. Just like to know a scientific reason other than 'that's just what we do for our own convenience'


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## Chiffy (25 January 2016)

These threads on spaying are always interesting. I have kept bitches all my life and apart from breeding a couple of litters, all have been spayed after two seasons.
I have never had an overweight dog, never experienced incontinence or coat change. My 8 year old flatcoat has a beautiful shiny perfect coat.
I would never have known about these troubles without this forum. The only trend I find worrying is bitches being spayed before they have ever had a season.


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## RunToEarth (25 January 2016)

Really interesting thread. 

My bitch is 18months old, I have no plans to breed from her. She's just had her first season, when is ideally the right time to spay her?


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## MurphysMinder (25 January 2016)

Normally I would say 18 months is a good age, but if she has only just had her first season it is more complicated.  Normally I would say let them have a couple of seasons so you can establish a pattern and spay mid season,  however that could mean waiting another 18 months!  Perhaps have a word with your vet.


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## Bellasophia (25 January 2016)

Also depends on the breed...large breeds mature later so at least 3 seasons would be ideal..
Small breeds pref after first or second season...in very  tiny breeds eg chihuahua,you also have to take into consideration the dog's weight,so they can do ok with the anaesthetic.
In both ,you would spay 3 months after the season has ended.


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## Murphy88 (25 January 2016)

RTE - if you aim for 2-3 months from the end of her season you should be fine. You have a much lower risk of mammary cancer if you spay after first rather than after second, and lose all benefit if you wait until the third. For large breeds I advise either after first or second depending on how mature they are, but for small breeds would be happy to spay before the first season at 6 months old if they are fully grown. I volunteered in Fiji for a while as a new grad and we routinely neutered 12 week old puppies; it is a much quicker, easier op, and the charity has been doing this for years with the animals all growing up with no ill effects.

To the OP - as a vet, for me there is no question, you should always always spay a bitch. Dogs/castration there is pros and cons and it really comes down to the individual dog and its temperament etc, but for bitches the pros so far outweigh the cons that it should be a no brainer. I operated on a 4 year old bitch with a pyo a few weeks ago, so it isn't just an old dog disease.


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## MotherOfChickens (25 January 2016)

Murphy88 said:



			To the OP - as a vet, for me there is no question, you should always always spay a bitch. Dogs/castration there is pros and cons and it really comes down to the individual dog and its temperament etc, but for bitches the pros so far outweigh the cons that it should be a no brainer. I operated on a 4 year old bitch with a pyo a few weeks ago, so it isn't just an old dog disease.
		
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Thank you, I do understand that for bitches it's best and if I go ahead with this rehome, I will be looking into ovarectomy rather than the standard spay.

I've spoken to 4 vets this morning at work-all were SA vets before going into a different field. None of them have neutered dogs and all of them consider that ovarectomy to be a good option. None of them were pro castration for males in normal circumstances for responsible owners and certainly not at a young age.


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## RunToEarth (25 January 2016)

Thanks MM & Bella, really helpful.



Murphy88 said:



			RTE - if you aim for 2-3 months from the end of her season you should be fine. You have a much lower risk of mammary cancer if you spay after first rather than after second, and lose all benefit if you wait until the third. For large breeds I advise either after first or second depending on how mature they are, but for small breeds would be happy to spay before the first season at 6 months old if they are fully grown. I volunteered in Fiji for a while as a new grad and we routinely neutered 12 week old puppies; it is a much quicker, easier op, and the charity has been doing this for years with the animals all growing up with no ill effects.
		
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Thank you Murphy. I was always under the impression that it was inherently dangerous to spay too early because there was a connection with bone cancer, is this not the case? She's a Golden Retriever, I'm not bothered about her coat particularly as for me it is a trivial irritation compared to real health impacts, however with her being a larger breed I worry about weight gain - she is quite lean at present.


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## Clodagh (25 January 2016)

Ours don't put on any weight, you just watch how much you give them. Our 8 year old lab is as lean and mean as ever.


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## RunToEarth (25 January 2016)

Clodagh said:



			Ours don't put on any weight, you just watch how much you give them. Our 8 year old lab is as lean and mean as ever.
		
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Thanks C that's really helpful to know. She's not a food orientated dog anyway, but as I've never had a larger dog before I'm not really sure what to expect! She's very active so I would hope she will be fine.


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## Clodagh (25 January 2016)

You can tell she is spayed, they get sort of heavier around the shoulders and it really does ruin their coats! Like you though, the coat was the least of our worries. We get ours spayed after one season and haven't had any incontinence problems.


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## GinaB (25 January 2016)

RTE, none of my three girls put on weight either after being spayed. In fact I've had people tell me my lab is too lean...they're just not used to a fit, working type and think all labs should be 'cuddly' sigh.


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## MurphysMinder (25 January 2016)

Mine haven't put on any weight either.  In fact I had hoped Freya would bulk up a bit as I was feeding her loads and she was still lean  but her weight hasnt altered at all.  She weighed exactly the same last time she was at the vets as she did when she went in for her op.


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## ponyparty (27 January 2016)

A vet I did work experience with told me that after spaying, you should pretty much cut food down by roughly 30%. That's seems a lot to me, but she was adamant this was correct (depending on the individual dog of course).


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## planete (28 January 2016)

ponyparty said:



			A vet I did work experience with told me that after spaying, you should pretty much cut food down by roughly 30%. That's seems a lot to me, but she was adamant this was correct (depending on the individual dog of course).
		
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I have had to do that with one of my lurcher bitches who is probably a collie cross but not with the other one who is a very saluki shape.  It probably depends on the individual bitch' s metabolism as well.


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## Alec Swan (28 January 2016)

Murphy88 said:



			.. I volunteered in Fiji for a while as a new grad and we routinely neutered 12 week old puppies; it is a much quicker, easier op, and the charity has been doing this for years with the animals all growing up with no ill effects.

..
		
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Assuming you to be a qualified Vet,  I find that statement quite astonishing.

Alec.


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## MotherOfChickens (28 January 2016)

Agreed Alec, I would like to know how long term ill effects were monitored, if at all.


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## Murphy88 (28 January 2016)

Alec and MoC - I'm not saying that 12 week spaying should be recommended over here, more trying to make the point that depending on the population it's not as simple as "OMG, every bitch spayed under 6 months old will end up fat and incontinent". The animals that came in for vaccinations who had been spayed in the preceding years had no apparent health problems related to early neutering, and the nurses at the charity said they hadn't noted any particular trend to problems related to early neutering. Now obviously dogs in Fiji don't usually live nearly as long (when I was there, there was one permanent small animal vet in the whole of Fiji = 300+ islands), and frankly I suspect the charity would continue with that program even if there were issues later in life because if you rehome an entire puppy it will almost certainly end up pregnant at the first season then have to be spayed while pregnant or volunteers like me end up euthanising days-old litters of puppies. 

RTE - hmm, given you have a retriever it's a difficult one. There is a study out of UC Davis in GRs that showed an increase in certain cancers in neutered animals compared to entire, but actually it was males that had more problems if neutered <1yr compared to females who had higher rates (mast cell tumours and haemangiosarcoma) if neutered OLDER than one year. Unfortunately we really need specific studies in bitches to properly understand the links. It's not applicable to other breeds as GRs have higher rates in these cancers anyway, which is why they were chosen for the study. That's probably not much help to you in making a decision, sorry!


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## MotherOfChickens (28 January 2016)

Muphy88 I agree that the charity you spoke of probably has little choice, but I am a scientist so bound to pick you up on a statement like that  . I have not heard back about this bitch which is a great shame, she looked awesome. Had I got her, I'd have spayed-should I end up with a younger one I would be seriously considering ovariectomy.


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## FinnishLapphund (2 February 2016)

I haven't read the whole thread, sorry if it has already been posted, but I read this a while ago http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/spay-neuter-and-joint-disease/ 

Anyhow, in Sweden it is still not that common to spay bitches unless there is medical reasons to do it, and the surgery is usually quite costly. I had to spay Jonna (she's 10 years old and was showing early signs of pyometra) the 18 of January, according to Yahoo's currency converter, it cost almost £1300. But since it was a pyometra, the insurance company paid about £1035 of the cost. 
By the way, the operation was relatively uncomplicated, except that they had some trouble with stopping the bleeding from the wound, so the cost isn't caused by that it was a complicated operation.

Jonna's home going paper specifically says "Pay attention to her weight after spaying so that she does not become overweight! You may have to reduce her ration or switch to a feed adapted for neutered dogs." Weight gain is common enough, for my veterinarians to also feel the need to remind owners about it, when they come back to remove the stitches. Although, the veterinarian who took Jonna's stitches, did say that it was nothing wrong with her current weight, and that she presumed that I was already aware that I would have to be observant about Jonna's weight in the future.


ETA I'm sorry to hear that you haven't heard anything back about the dog you were interested in, MotherOfChickens.


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## MotherOfChickens (2 February 2016)

that's interesting to read FL, I was aware that thinking was different over there wrt to this thankyou. I've not heard anything, it's a mystery-one minute we were exchanging emails and mutually agreeing that it sounded good on paper (the bitch was advertised) at least and nothing since-despite chasing up. I will keep looking although tbh it looks as though we might wait until next year to get the puppy breed of our choice. A male who won't be neutered


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## Damnation (3 February 2016)

MurphysMinder said:



			I have kept females entire, but the majority have been spayed later in life.   I lost a much loved bitch a few years ago at 12 years of age from pyometra,  I just had never got round to having her spayed. My current 2 aged 8 and 4 are both spayed, and I would never again keep a bitch into old age without spaying.  I have never had problems with them putting on weight after spaying, and whereas one did become slightly urinary incontinent in old age , so did another entire bitch so cant really put it down to spaying.
		
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^^ This.

Nearly lost our old Lab bitch to Pyrometria, at the age of 12 she had to be spayed but thankfully she came through the operation fine.

We have 2 younger bitches that I think we will probably have spayed when they hit 7-8.

To be honest, if you arne't going to breed get her spayed. I don't know where you live OP (Country or city) but when a bitch comes into season in the city, unless you are going to drive to the country or walk very late at night and early in the morning, there is a risk that boys may come searching for her unless you just don't walk her for 3 weeks.

We haven't bothered yet with spaying our two as we live in a rural area with a very well fenced, huge, farm yard so they can exercise and be safe when in season, so no safety issues for us.


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## MotherOfChickens (3 February 2016)

Damnation said:



			^^ This.

Nearly lost our old Lab bitch to Pyrometria, at the age of 12 she had to be spayed but thankfully she came through the operation fine.

We have 2 younger bitches that I think we will probably have spayed when they hit 7-8.

To be honest, if you arne't going to breed get her spayed. I don't know where you live OP (Country or city) but when a bitch comes into season in the city, unless you are going to drive to the country or walk very late at night and early in the morning, there is a risk that boys may come searching for her unless you just don't walk her for 3 weeks.

We haven't bothered yet with spaying our two as we live in a rural area with a very well fenced, huge, farm yard so they can exercise and be safe when in season, so no safety issues for us.
		
Click to expand...

thanks- I live in the middle of nowhere apart from when I am work. Doesn't look like I will get a bitch now anyway-unless its from a rescue (unlikely-the only rescues who'll look at me are for Eastern European dogs) and it will then already be spayed.


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