# What to feed a laminitic as a complete hay replacer??



## spottydottypony (27 January 2013)

My 36 yr old gelding has Cushings and lamintis. He has just been diagnosed today. What can i give him as a complete hay re placer (his teeth are bad)???? He cannot eat hay at all.


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## budley95 (27 January 2013)

You could give fast fibre a go? It says that it can be used as a complete hay replacment and where it's soaked it's quite easy to eat. The 32 year old pony that had cushings and no teeth at our yard used to have it! Could always give their helpline a call and see if they've got any other ideas if not? Hope you find something to help soon


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## ljm (27 January 2013)

Give simple systems a call, they're great products and the advice line is really helpful. L


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## spottydottypony (27 January 2013)

Thanks will try that do they deliver??


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## flintfootfilly (27 January 2013)

What is he eating at the moment?  If possible, I'd try and avoid any sudden changes in what he's eating, and if you do need to make some changes then introduce them gradually to avoid any possible problems with colic.

Despite what Allen & Page say on their blurb about Fast Fibre, it is NOT suitable as a total forage replacer.  To feed it instead of all forage would take the selenium levels signficantly above the NRC's suggested upper safe limit for selenium supplementation.  Selenium can be toxic at relatively small increases above normal supplementation, and its effects can be dramatic.

NRC's suggested daily selenium intake for a 500kg horse is 1mg.

NRC's suggested upper safe limit for daily intake for the same horse is 5mg.

If FF was fed as the only food source (ie as a total hay replacer), you would be feeding 10kg a day, which would contain 8.8mg.

I really wouldn't go down that route.

If he really does need something mushy, then I'd ring TopSpec and probably Dodson & Horrell too and see what their suggestions would be.  I'd be interested to hear what they suggest.

And obviously he'll still need a full ration of vits/mins daily whatever you feed him.

Hope he's soon more comfortable.

Sarah


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## amandap (27 January 2013)

Can he eat haylage? The Marksway High Fibre one may well be suitable if he can.


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## WandaMare (27 January 2013)

I have been using Dengie Hi-fi Lite as a partial hay replacer for my lami pony this winter and its been working well. The good thing is he doesn't particularly like it so he doesn't gobble it all at once, he just eats it when he gets hungry. I dampen it altho it says you don't have to, he tends to eat it up better this way. You replace it with the same weight as hay which for 1.5kg is 5 standard scoops.


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## spottydottypony (27 January 2013)

At the moment he is on 
Leigh Senior Chop
High Fibre Cubes
 As his hay replacer then for his feed he gets

Mollichop Bloom
Topspec Conditioning Flakes
Sugar Beet

I have been told by my vet to take him off sugar as he may have EMS. He lost weight a couple of months ago and was really poor so i fed him up. He cannot eat hay or haylege because of his poor teeth.


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## Izzwizz (27 January 2013)

A pony at our yard has what yours is suffering from.  The owner feeds him, Graze on forage, Mollichaff Veteran Chop, high fibre nuts (soaked), grass nuts (soaked), REady Mash Extra soft and soak and these are the things I know of.  He can't eat hay etc as has only a few teeth, as does his field companion and she eats similar feed.  She has even less teeth and is 36yrs old and looks really well.


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## lelly (27 January 2013)

Be aware that Dengue Hi Fi Lite is mollassed. You need a sugar free chaff if he can eat it ok. I use Ossichaff the pure and simple one. My Cushing's, ir pony loves it and looks well on it. I give her it ad lib in a sheep ring feeder. Works well for me.


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## Pasha (28 January 2013)

spottydottypony said:



			At the moment he is on 
Leigh Senior Chop
High Fibre Cubes
 As his hay replacer then for his feed he gets

Mollichop Bloom
Topspec Conditioning Flakes
Sugar Beet

I have been told by my vet to take him off sugar as he may have EMS. He lost weight a couple of months ago and was really poor so i fed him up. He cannot eat hay or haylege because of his poor teeth.
		
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You could give him speedi beet (unmollassed sugar beet) mixed with Dengie Hi Fi Mollasses Free (or Alfa A Mollasses Free or Alfalfa Pellets if he needs to put on condition).

For 'feed' add a mug of micronised linseed, tablespoon of salt and a broad spec vit/min supplement. As your vet suspects EMS (I would guess more likely PPID/Cushings) I would suggest one specially designed for these conditions, like Equimins Advanced Concentrate Meta Balance (have to phone them to order) or Forgae Plus Hoof Balancer.


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## windand rain (28 January 2013)

Soaked Alfa beet can be fed by the bucketful and is a good hay replacer. You can feed pretty much the whole ration that was with vitamins, and linseed for weight gain if needed


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## TGM (28 January 2013)

We had a pony with similar problems a few years ago and she did well on soaked Spillers High Fibre Cubes and Happy Hoof.  It is always worth checking the starch/sugar content of high fibre cubes because they vary quite a bit.  Combined starch/sugar content should be less than 10%.  To me the total sugar content is more important than whether it has a touch of molasses.  Some molasses feeds can be lower in overall sugar levels than some unmolassed feeds!


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## LCH611 (28 January 2013)

Just be careful feeding beet with the softer chaffs like happy hoof and hi fi lite as it can cause choke as it clumps together.

Simple Systems is good as a hay replacer, but it may be that your pony will not be able to tolerate either the grass nuts of alfa pellets that make up their feed range. 

Copra is a good product for lammi prone ponies that might need some condition


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## YasandCrystal (28 January 2013)

My lami prone pony who also has a split molar so finds chewing difficult is currently on a half a scoop of Pure Feeds  - working feed twice daily at the moment. I am giving him that as he is not doing that well now.  Pue Feeds deliver too.

I am soaking it for at least 8 hours so it is soft and palatable.  I have also bought some of the new Baileys High Fibre nuggets which can be fed sioaked or dry.

As for Simple Sytemes - my lot were not keen as it is all Alfalfa based and lami prone hates Alfalfa.  The Pure feeds contain no alfalfa. 
I was thinking of looking at the Rowen Barberry soak feedstuffs. My pony does not like sugar beet nor A&P Hi Fibre either - I think it is quite bland.


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## LCH611 (28 January 2013)

YasandCrystal said:



			My lami prone pony who also has a split molar so finds chewing difficult is currently on a half a scoop of Pure Feeds  - working feed twice daily at the moment. I am giving him that as he is not doing that well now.  Pue Feeds deliver too.

I am soaking it for at least 8 hours so it is soft and palatable.  I have also bought some of the new Baileys High Fibre nuggets which can be fed sioaked or dry.

As for Simple Sytemes - my lot were not keen as it is all Alfalfa based and lami prone hates Alfalfa.  The Pure feeds contain no alfalfa. 
I was thinking of looking at the Rowen Barberry soak feedstuffs. My pony does not like sugar beet nor A&P Hi Fibre either - I think it is quite bland.
		
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my cushings pony is thriving on pure feeds - wouldn't touch fast fibre.


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## YasandCrystal (28 January 2013)

LCH611 said:



			my cushings pony is thriving on pure feeds - wouldn't touch fast fibre.
		
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Yes they smell so lovely don't they. I like the fact that I can soak them and there is still some grass/fibrous stuff left so it's not all just a mush. I was worried that the 'working' one would be too rich but my pony (a very fine 10 hh) is actually nigh on perfect weight. You can just see his ribs when he moves.

I will get Pure Easy for the good doers next year.


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## Pasha (28 January 2013)

LCH611 said:



			Copra is a good product for lammi prone ponies that might need some condition
		
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I asked the ECIR Group about Copra and they maintain it is too high in fat for IR horses


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## odd1 (30 January 2013)

what about dengie hifi molasses free and if you need to add more weight mix in a bit of the alfa molasses free


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## ILuvCowparsely (30 January 2013)

spottydottypony said:



			My 36 yr old gelding has Cushings and lamintis. He has just been diagnosed today. What can i give him as a complete hay re placer (his teeth are bad)???? He cannot eat hay at all.
		
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Personally 


 I would phone D&H if it were me  Teresa Hollands senior nutrition.  She will give you a tailored diet. She helped my lami mare


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## brucea (30 January 2013)

Linseed meal is a pretty good feed additive to add more. it has the advantage fo the oils being in the solid seed form and more readily absorbed for the older horse - and some Omega 3/6 which will act as anti-inflamatory Also provides mucilage for the gut.

My older guy is noticeably much better on this.


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