# Aintree Grand National



## heidi123 (9 April 2011)

Sorry in advance if there has already been a thread on this, but cant see one :s lol

Just wonderd who is going to be watching and is anyone betting 

Nice weather for it though


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## feisty_filly (9 April 2011)

im going to be watching! watch every year, also i like comply or die (backed him for the last 3 years) and neich market


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## BSJAlove (9 April 2011)

im betting on Nini Carberry and Character Building, Jason Mcguire and Billarbriggs and then just for luck, ive got a few pounds on the 100/1 Thats Rhythm and james reveley


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## Lucinda_x (9 April 2011)

im working when its starts so have set to record  but i've always had a soft spot for comply and i was impressed by Hello bud last year


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## Ranyhyn (9 April 2011)

I'll be watching - what time is the race?


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## Lucinda_x (9 April 2011)

4.15


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## Derfette (9 April 2011)

Try to watch it every year, but have got to work this afternoon, so I too have set the machine to record. Will watch it later and just hope I don't hear who one before I get a chance to see it


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## LadyRascasse (9 April 2011)

On the sweep stake at work i have Quinz, State of Play, Piraya and Or Noir De Samoza.  and I have put £1 E/W bet on What A Friend and In Compliance something has goota win me some money lmao!!


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## Dunlin (9 April 2011)

I'm glued to the sofa now watching the build up and the other races. 

It's one of those things I love to hate. I hate watching it as I feel sick waiting for something horrible to happen but I love watching all those brave horses and riders jumping a course that seems so impossible!

I'd love to go in person one year. 

I've gone for Majestic Concorde and Becauseicouldntsee, £2.50 E/W.


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## china (9 April 2011)

this time last year i was dressaging on my tb ex racer and it was the last time  
that fall has got to have knocked him out! he hit the floor head first!!


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## Janah (9 April 2011)

Watching. not betting.  Everytime I place a bet the horse falls, so Now I don't and it's not my fault!

Jane


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## Rowreach (9 April 2011)

I'm on Bluesea Cracker - JP must know something ...


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## Kadastorm (9 April 2011)

I will be watching  ive put £1 ew on a few just for fun. Hello bud, quinz,becauseicouldntsee and oscar time. Then i did the outsiders: cant buy time, piraya, royal rosa and thats rhythm. Would love piraya to come in as i took the odds of 200/1!


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## Tr0uble (9 April 2011)

I went for the obvious sentimental choices and chose That's Rhythm and Silver by Nature!


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## milesjess (9 April 2011)

Don't push it and Grand Slam Hero. Each way bets. First time I've betted on it so hoping for beginners luck!


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## Tr0uble (9 April 2011)

I won £55 last year...first win I'd ever had....crossing fingers for my long shot bet! lol


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## Daffodil (9 April 2011)

I just feel sick.


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## xspiralx (9 April 2011)

Got 2.50 e/w on The Midnight Club and Ballabriggs


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## illy89 (9 April 2011)

I've put £2 on The Midnight Club and also put £1 on Santa's son at 150-1 just for fun - although reading up about him i think those odds are well deserved!!


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## ldlp111 (9 April 2011)

Was the jockey who had the heavy fall alright?


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## Holly Hocks (9 April 2011)

I have gone for Hello Bud and That's Rhythm - I just really like watching Sam Twiston Davis and James Reveley ride regardless of whether they win or not.  I hope all the horses come home safe.


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## dominobrown (9 April 2011)

I have gone for vic venturi as he my horse's cousin and I put money on him last year.
I have also gone for Silver by nature and I got the midnight club at 14/1.


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## Cuppatea (9 April 2011)

gone for the co meath jockeys to get the jumping right...hopefully! Somoza and backstage.......
got ornais in the hunt sweepstake.......think thats £1 i wont see again!!


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## black_horse (9 April 2011)

that fall looked nasty


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## mattilda (9 April 2011)

I can't watch the race until I know they were all safe! So am relying on you lot to tell me whether I can watch the replay or not. Am currently watching CDWM on C4.


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## MurphysMinder (9 April 2011)

Oh dear, that nasty looking fall at the 20th is no longer I fear.


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## black_horse (9 April 2011)

Seen the tarlapaulin already  one fatality.


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## meandmyself (9 April 2011)

One horse dead  Not sure who.


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## Ranyhyn (9 April 2011)

One dead and one under treatment


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## china (9 April 2011)

very sad indeed, looked like it died near enough straight away, didnt move once it hit the floor.


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## MurphysMinder (9 April 2011)

Thats what I thought, very sad.


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## black_horse (9 April 2011)

only condolence is that it didnt suffer for long


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## glenruby (9 April 2011)

Excellent to see the considerate jockeys dismount immediately past the post - some even as the horses were still cantering. V hot weather for this race and a big test.


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## Tr0uble (9 April 2011)

Anyone know which it was that died? Were the screens up for another horse, or for a rider?

One of mine, That's Rhythm, fell at the first


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## Serenity087 (9 April 2011)

Yeah, he never got up.  I gave up cheering on Silver by Nature and started begging him to get up again... looks like he didn't 

Hope the one at Beechers gets up.


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## Dunlin (9 April 2011)

I think it was becauseicouldntsee that didn't make it. Somersaulted and hit the deck very hard and just didn't move. Can only hope it was quick.

Horses have died before but they've never missed the fences out like that before.

I think the other incident was a rider being treated rather than a horse.

God I feel so sad now


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## lily1 (9 April 2011)

its a great race but I hate seeing lovely horses die RIP fallen horses x


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## meandmyself (9 April 2011)

Not much help, but I'm pretty sure that the horse who died was a bay.


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## Serenity087 (9 April 2011)

Wonder why they left him on the track?  I wonder if he didn't die straight out which is why they didn't get to remove him


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## Laafet (9 April 2011)

The winning jockey got some right abuse off the crowd on the way in, not really fair. It looks very hot up there. I've never seen then bypass fences before, but maybe having to do that was fairer for those that did make it round.


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## Ranyhyn (9 April 2011)

Silver by nature finished hun I think x


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## xspiralx (9 April 2011)

Excellent race by the winner, but I have to say seeing the two down behind the fences they missed out made me feel really sick, its so sad.

Anyone know for sure which ones it was?

Well done Ballabriggs though


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## Serenity087 (9 April 2011)

Silver by Nature finished - all the greys did but one without his rider.

Not that I'm a grey fan at all, me


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## JDChaser (9 April 2011)

Thoroughbreds are bred to race, just like sheep and cows are bred to be eaten. The vast majority have long careers and finish in fine fettle, why do people always have to concentrate on the bad...

Great race, it's a different feel to it in the sunshine! Don't Push It was 3rd and delighted for Surface To Air too for Chris Bealby who was about 6th I think.


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## Hedgewitch13 (9 April 2011)

I'm pretty sure the poor thing died quickly - it didn't move after hitting the deck. I guess they couldn't get it moved in time, they would have needed to get a JCB or lorry or  something to move the body, not a good idea during a two circuit race :-(


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## Ranyhyn (9 April 2011)

Not sure who the fallen were, they are always quite quiet about that, but people do want to know.

Thoughts to all connections for the fallen, no matter what anyone says they do not train these horses up to fall and lose them.


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## meandmyself (9 April 2011)

Ugh, come on BBC... Tell us which horse died...


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## Ranyhyn (9 April 2011)

Ginger McCain - hilarity!


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## Serenity087 (9 April 2011)

They won't, it's better to go to the Animal Aid website for news...


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## assuan (9 April 2011)

Damn it - I was tossing up between putting £20 on either Ballabriggs or Gran Slam Hero, both were at 14/1 at the time and I choose the later of the two..... bloody three legged donkey! grrrr.


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## xspiralx (9 April 2011)

Kitsune said:



			Not sure who the fallen were, they are always quite quiet about that, but people do want to know.

Thoughts to all connections for the fallen, no matter what anyone says they do not train these horses up to fall and lose them.
		
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Exactly. I know they don't want to focus on the morbid, but they spend so long building up the stories before the race - people want to know the outcome for these brave horses and jockeys.

Wonderful job by Sam Waley Cohen too - he ought to be a professional, he's brilliant.


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## Dunlin (9 April 2011)

If you keep watching they go through the race again and tell you the horses that died or were injured, they also give updates about jockeys that fell too.

It was nice that the owners looked after Ballybrigg so well rather than getting wrapped up with winning they tended to the horse straight away, I have a lot of respect for people that can think like that in the middle of such a huge celebration. Hopefully he'll be OK after some water and rest.

Not sure what happened to the one I bet on... Majestic Concorde, led for a while, got progressively tired, jumped the Canal turn and then afterwards the jockey fell off!


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## Ranyhyn (9 April 2011)

LOL poor old grand slam, he took a hard hit bless him.


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## MollyMoomin (9 April 2011)

RIP horse(s?). I hope it was quick. 

I love and hate this race in equal measure but I can't not watch it. Also hope the jockey in the first race that got taken to hospital is OK as well.


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## dominobrown (9 April 2011)

About to ask too what was destroyed, is it only 2 horses?

Glad to see the jockeys get off straight away. With the heat etc it is better for the horse to get cooled off, walked off and a drink.


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## Ranyhyn (9 April 2011)

Yeah people seem in uproar that he got off - he's putting the horse first - good on him!


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## MollyMoomin (9 April 2011)

Also LMAO at Ginger McCain - CB 'You must be very proud of your son [winning trainer]'  GMcC 'Why?'


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## Ranyhyn (9 April 2011)

Here's a run through


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## Ranyhyn (9 April 2011)

Calgary bay i'd say from the positioning


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## mil1212 (9 April 2011)

was it calgary bay that went?


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## china (9 April 2011)

it was the fence that ornais fell at, it may have been him but there was another who fell at that fence, they have not said anything though!


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## Ranyhyn (9 April 2011)

Yeah and he looked rigid almost straight away, lets hope he went straight off. RIP


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## stencilface (9 April 2011)

RIP to the two horses, not a bad race by all accounts though.  Can lose more than one horse in a normal race so 2/40 acceptable I think.

Thank god its another year before I have to sit through it! 

I like the getting off and the water being thrown over them, if they didn't care they would have taken the horses into the winners enclosure


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## Dunlin (9 April 2011)

Wasn't it becauseicouldntsee that fell there?


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## Holly Hocks (9 April 2011)

I thought the horse under the tarpaulin was either Dooney's gate or West End Rocker....


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## Torphichen (9 April 2011)

I think it was Ornais that was killed instantly, Calgary Bay was running loose (he has the distinctive green breast girth)


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## mil1212 (9 April 2011)

becuaseicouldntsee fell early and got up and galloped on


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## Ranyhyn (9 April 2011)

BICS fell at the second, bringing down VVenturi


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## Ranyhyn (9 April 2011)

Heh we'll get to the bottom of it soon!


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## Dunlin (9 April 2011)

*edited* thanks for clearing up BCIS fall


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## Ranyhyn (9 April 2011)

Its not a friggin obstacle it is someone's fallen horse! Tell us who it is, stupid BBC for goodness sake - have some respect!


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## teagreen (9 April 2011)

Clare Balding says it was Ornais and Dooneys Gate. Very sorry for the connections - but agree it can happen and does happen in any other race.


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## Hedgewitch13 (9 April 2011)

Exactly what I've just said. It's a dead horse, at least have the balls to say it. Grrrr.


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## mrussell (9 April 2011)

It would have been fence 4 and then Bechers (the first time around). Two horses fell at fence 4 and got up... but the taup was a little way from the fence so Im thinking whatever got up didnt stay up


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## dominobrown (9 April 2011)

Kitsune said:



			Its not a friggin obstacle it is someone's fallen horse! Tell us who it is, stupid BBC for goodness sake - have some respect!
		
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yep starting to pee me off too, wish they would confirm at least.


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## JDChaser (9 April 2011)

Serenity087 said:



			They won't, it's better to go to the Animal Aid website for news...
		
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The BBC always report horse and jockey injuries and deaths, as do Channel 4 Racing and the Racing Post website. So don't make up pretend facts just to revel in your morbid attitude.


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## xspiralx (9 April 2011)

Its so disrespectful - why ignore it?? We can all bloody see it!

Are we just supposed to forget and not care about the ones that don't make it?


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## Dunlin (9 April 2011)

They do mention it it's when Claire Balding is back in the studio, usually when she was with Willy Carson and they have a section called "where they fell" or something. They do tell you which horses died, were injured and the jockeys injured as well.


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## black_horse (9 April 2011)

JDChaser said:



			Thoroughbreds are bred to race, just like sheep and cows are bred to be eaten. The vast majority have long careers and finish in fine fettle, why do people always have to concentrate on the bad...

Great race, it's a different feel to it in the sunshine! Don't Push It was 3rd and delighted for Surface To Air too for Chris Bealby who was about 6th I think.
		
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I dont think anyone is concentrating on it, just not ignoring it completely....


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## china (9 April 2011)

i thought the second with the screens up was a rider as the jockey they spoke to after was saying how he hoped he was ok etc


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## Hedgewitch13 (9 April 2011)

Sorry Stencilface but when has any horse deaths in a race been 'acceptable'? How very sad.


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## stencilface (9 April 2011)

I know the horses are running as part of a pack, but if the loose ones hated it that much, they would stop (as many do!)

I loved the loose horse that leapt the white rails - would love to know where it ended up 

Hedgewitch, acceptable is the wrong term - but I know (and I hope some others do) what I mean


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## JDChaser (9 April 2011)

They probably don't know yet for certain who is dead, who is injured... - think about it as well, the connections needs to know if their horse is injured of dead and trainers and owners and lads will be busy right now sorting out horses and unable to comment. What's the huge rush? Like it's some cover up? They always report what they know about injuries and death, BBC and C4.

I think i'm remembering why I always avoid horse racing threads on this website, the ignorance is so astounding. Why type with such certainty about things you know nothing about, is my question..


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## Ranyhyn (9 April 2011)

The BBC thinks their viewing audience for the Grand National are all 12year old fluffy girls - we know what'd under there - what do they think we think it is - a birthday cake?? A flying pig??
Bad show I say.


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## monkeybum13 (9 April 2011)

china said:



			i thought the second with the screens up was a rider as the jockey they spoke to after was saying how he hoped he was ok etc
		
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That's what I thought too - Ruby Walsh said about a jockey ?
Hope said jockey is ok.


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## WoopsiiD (9 April 2011)

Where they fell isn't saying who it is, just naming who fell or was unseated.
I do wish they would show a bit of compassion, even just saying something as simple as 'sadly not jumping x fence due to 'treatment' of x faller'...diplomatic but compassionate. 'An obstacle'??? WTF Beecher Brook is an obstacle. A dead horse is a tragedy!


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## black_horse (9 April 2011)

No lose of life is acceptable....thats like saying well one jockey out of 40 died, so thats fine...


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## Torphichen (9 April 2011)

That was Ruby talking about Paddy Mullins who took the horrible fall at Beecher's from Dooneys Gate. Sadly, I think he was a fatality, he brought down West End Rocker


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## Dunlin (9 April 2011)

Radio says Ornais broke his neck and died instantly and Dooneys Gate got up but had a broken leg who was PTS. Rest in Peace gorgeous brave horses


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## Hedgewitch13 (9 April 2011)

Well said WhoopsiiD. Unfortunately some people think you are a fluffy bunny hugger just because you care.

Oh at last... Well done BBC.


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## Ranyhyn (9 April 2011)

Finally.

RIP Ornais and Dooney's Gate.  Thoughts to all connections.

Thanks Clare for that confirmation.


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## Ignition (9 April 2011)

I think you all need to be a tad more existential about this - once the horses are dead, then they are gone, no pain, nothing. A quick death for an animal is hardly such a bad thing. 

And there you go, Clare Balding confirmed who died and expressed her sadness.. as always happens if you wait for 10 minutes..!


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## china (9 April 2011)

finally confirmation. very very sad indeed!


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## meandmyself (9 April 2011)

Just confirmed. No word on the injured jockeys.


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## 3Beasties (9 April 2011)

teagreen said:



			Clare Balding says it was Ornais and Dooneys Gate. Very sorry for the connections - but agree it can happen and does happen in any other race.
		
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Just been confirmed.

RIP Beautiful boys


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## Ranyhyn (9 April 2011)

Yeah i thought Ornais (didn't know who it was) went instantly, as he bounced up from his fall he looked to me like he'd gone already.  So sad, but they go happy and quicker than a lot of horses get to.


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## Hedgewitch13 (9 April 2011)

No *****e Ignition... Sheesh...


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## JoG (9 April 2011)

First time it has been so obvious on the TV that it happens. Very considerately handled by Clare Balding and credit for them actually announcing it

RIP horses.  Thoughts with all those connected


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## xspiralx (9 April 2011)

JDChaser said:



			They probably don't know yet for certain who is dead, who is injured... - think about it as well, the connections needs to know if their horse is injured of dead and trainers and owners and lads will be busy right now sorting out horses and unable to comment. What's the huge rush? Like it's some cover up? They always report what they know about injuries and death, BBC and C4.

I think i'm remembering why I always avoid horse racing threads on this website, the ignorance is so astounding. Why type with such certainty about things you know nothing about, is my question..
		
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Even if they cannot confirm who it was [though I would put money on that they know exactly who it is more than half an hour after the race finishes], there is no need to completely ignore it.

Glad CB has now clarified who died - RIP Ornais and Dooney's Gate


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## Oldenburg (9 April 2011)

So sad i have a lump in my throat!!

Run free boys


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## Ranyhyn (9 April 2011)

Hedgewitch13 said:



			No *****e Ignition... Sheesh...
		
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This.

Oh yeah I forgot its wrong for people to be concerned and want to know...

Thanks for the "shut up and wait" attitude, spectators are what makes any sport great - so stop trying to be so elitist and know-it-all.


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## teagreen (9 April 2011)

Honestly, don't be so ridiculous.

They can't tell us who died until they know FOR SURE who died - they have to check before they can tell us. Clare always gets that job, they always tell you fatalities after the re-run. Of course they were going to mention it, but it isn't at the forefront of things. It's very sad and they acknowledge it, but they dont want to revel in it by talking about it too much. Clare told us respectfully.

This can happen in any other race and does happen, all those spouting about what a cruel race it is - it happens at other times, not just here.

People get it in their heads that this is a cruel race and I sometimes think they revel in it when they hear a horse has died, then it confirms to them that it is a cruel race and all us who enjoy it and love racing are evil.

Oh look, they're still talking about it, happy now 

We're not all heartless horse killers.


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## meandmyself (9 April 2011)

xspiralx said:



			Even if they cannot confirm who it was [though I would put money on that they know exactly who it is more than half an hour after the race finishes], there is no need to completely ignore it.

Glad CB has now clarified who died - RIP Ornais and Dooney's Gate 

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I agree with this.


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## Holly Hocks (9 April 2011)

Rip Ornais and Dooney's Gate.  Very sad but hopefully it was quick.

The interview with Sam Waley-Cohen just now, did rather take my mind off it though - no shirt....phwoar...


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## black_horse (9 April 2011)

JoG said:



			First time it has been so obvious on the TV that it happens. Very considerately handled by Clare Balding and credit for them actually announcing it

RIP horses.  Thoughts with all those connected 

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TBH its all very commending the BBC for acknowledging the fatalities but i dont think they could really have hidden from is as thousands of people say the horrid sight of the green covers....


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## WoopsiiD (9 April 2011)

Ignition-if its quick then yes its best. One had a broken leg, now I'm no vet but I'm sure that it doesn't kill them instantly....

I think most people do accept that horses do die racing, they die standing in the field. What a few of us are 'upset' about is that these two brave and beautiful creatures were referred to as 'obstacles'. As I said Beechers is an obstacle, a death is a tragedy.


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## Ignition (9 April 2011)

Oh my, some of you are very delicate.


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## MurphysMinder (9 April 2011)

I thought they handled it well, as said they do have to be sure of their facts.  It did look as if Ornais died instantly, and Dooneys gate would have been despatched very speedily.  Thoughts to all their connections.

ETS.  Adrenalin would have probably stopped any pain from the broken leg, 2 of our vets are amongst the large vet presence at Aintree, the horse would have been pts very quickly.


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## Ranyhyn (9 April 2011)

And some of you are like a house brick.  No need for your attitude Ignition.  Why don't you take it elsewhere?


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## dominobrown (9 April 2011)

Holly Hocks said:



			The interview with Sam Waley-Cohen just now, did rather take my mind off it though - no shirt....phwoar...
		
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hee hee must agree!


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## black_horse (9 April 2011)

Ignition - no not delicate, not ignorant either love...


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## JDChaser (9 April 2011)

Ignition said:



			Oh my, some of you are very delicate.
		
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You said it!!

P.S. Your stupid 4 year old headbutted me again this morning, when is it going home for it's Summer holidays?! I'm black n blue xxx


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## Ranyhyn (9 April 2011)

dominobrown said:



			hee hee must agree!
		
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 But only a shoulders shot!!!!


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## black_horse (9 April 2011)

dominobrown said:



			hee hee must agree!
		
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^^ this, yummy! haha


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## black_horse (9 April 2011)

JDChaser said:



			You said it!!

P.S. Your stupid 4 year old headbutted me again this morning, when is it going home for it's Summer holidays?! I'm black n blue xxx
		
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Why not show him what for and taking him racing! chances are he wont survive  haha


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## Serenity087 (9 April 2011)

RIP boys.

Thanks JDChaser for completely spoiling my idea that racing people were decent people.  I was actually pro racing (although it's not for me) but your posts are making me wonder about the mentality of racing folk.

We're concerned.  The Beeb has always skirted fallers (C4 is better).  This doesn't make us bunny hugging morons.

I in no way support Animal Aid - but if people like you would let people like me deal with feelings about dead horses being left on the track and then being described as "obsticles" then perhaps I wouldn't need to rely on them for information...

Pfft.  You're lucky I know more racing folk than just you, but I'd step away from the racing threads if this is how you treat people.  Grade A d***...


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## WoopsiiD (9 April 2011)

Or maybe some of us have compassion, surely a better trait than being a heartless sod?


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## hudsonw (9 April 2011)

Was the winner ok? i know the jockey jumped off quick and didn't go in to the winners enclosure...OH put the F1 qualifying on before i got to find out anything!!!


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## Hedgewitch13 (9 April 2011)

Ummm Teagreen nobody said it was a cruel race - we have all just watched it! Of course they knew which horses were down, it's not difficult for them to find out, being on course. 
RIP brave horses.


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## black_horse (9 April 2011)

Serenity087 said:



			RIP boys.

Thanks JDChaser for completely spoiling my idea that racing people were decent people.  I was actually pro racing (although it's not for me) but your posts are making me wonder about the mentality of racing folk.

We're concerned.  The Beeb has always skirted fallers (C4 is better).  This doesn't make us bunny hugging morons.

I in no way support Animal Aid - but if people like you would let people like me deal with feelings about dead horses being left on the track and then being described as "obsticles" then perhaps I wouldn't need to rely on them for information...

Pfft.  You're lucky I know more racing folk than just you, but I'd step away from the racing threads if this is how you treat people.  Grade A d***...
		
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This, though i have not met any nice people in racing for such a long time, just bullish ignorant people who pride their own egos over the horse flesh they ride....


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## Ignition (9 April 2011)

JDChaser said:



			You said it!!

P.S. Your stupid 4 year old headbutted me again this morning, when is it going home for it's Summer holidays?! I'm black n blue xxx
		
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Cheltenham next week then holidays. J after chaser training beforehand mind...


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## meandmyself (9 April 2011)

hudsonw said:



			Was the winner ok? i know the jockey jumped off quick and didn't go in to the winners enclosure...OH put the F1 qualifying on before i got to find out anything!!!
		
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Looked very tired and was reported as dehydrated. I think they said he was being treated and was expected to be okay. He also looked a bit off behind to me, but that could be my screen.


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## Dunlin (9 April 2011)

Yes the winner is OK, he was very hot and dehydrated so they took him to his stable to cool him down and get him water.

As for announcing the horses that died. Usually they announce it on the re-run straight after the race and say "sadly XXX did not recover from their fall and were PTS" but for some reason this year it was just a bit slower announcing the fatalities, they usually discuss jockey injuries as well but the programme ended very abruptly this year.


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## Hedgewitch13 (9 April 2011)

Well if I'm called delicate because I care about the death of horses then so be it. Rather that than being a cold, heartless biatch.

From what I've read on here I don't like racing people much either although it might just be the glory and money grabbing few.


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## Serenity087 (9 April 2011)

Black horse, I rode for a very nice P2P trainer a few years ago (so take THAT all who think I'm an ignorant sod!! I actually think racing is kinder than having me ride them   ) and he said something to me which has never been far from my thoughts since when it comes to my riding.

I also know a couple of racing types through here who are fabulous people.

Which, to be true, is more than the one person who is attacking everyone with a heart in this thread, although not entirely representative of the population... LOL!


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## Ignition (9 April 2011)

I'm not heartless, I'm practical. I've many horses (including jump racers) whom I adore, but I recognise that once someone or something is dead then any pain they had prior to that is also erased and they are at total peace. Good horses are willingly participants in races, the ones that aren't certainly wouldn't qualify for the Grand National. Any that don't enjoy it soon let us know and are retired to my farm as polo ponies, hacks, eventers or broodmares. Racing is NOT a cruel world as is wrongly perceived by so many, but it is a business the same way that a farm is and animals are bred and reared with a purpose in mind. Is that so awful..?


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## hudsonw (9 April 2011)

Thanks for the info on the winner and a sad loss of 2 wonderful horses. 

Glad everyone else came home safe.


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## Ranyhyn (9 April 2011)

Don't let the beggars get you down.  We were enjoying a nice chat before they came in here swinging their wrecking balls of elitist smugness.  Lets return it to a nice chat 

BICS brought down VVenturi - do you think it was because he couldnt see?


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## Vickijay (9 April 2011)

RIP gorgeous boys. I just googled to see them doing what they loved elsewhere and thought would share. Extremely sad. Thoughts to all attached to them. No matter what your thoughts are on it there will be some heartbroken people today who loved them

Gorgeous boys


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## xspiralx (9 April 2011)

I didn't realise that feeling compassion for an animal that is killed makes someone  delicate - I thought it was because most people on here are horse lovers?


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## Hedgewitch13 (9 April 2011)

Not when money is involved XspiralX :-(


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## black_horse (9 April 2011)

Serenity087 said:



			Black horse, I rode for a very nice P2P trainer a few years ago (so take THAT all who think I'm an ignorant sod!! I actually think racing is kinder than having me ride them   ) and he said something to me which has never been far from my thoughts since when it comes to my riding.

I also know a couple of racing types through here who are fabulous people.

Which, to be true, is more than the one person who is attacking everyone with a heart in this thread, although not entirely representative of the population... LOL!
		
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Oh i know, maybe they should get off their soapboxes and achieve something, become jockeys in this race and ride a horse that breaks down, and then we will see how they act.

Either way, if i owned a racing yard i wouldnt hire such riders as i feel compassion is needed as well as a die hard attitude!


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## 3Beasties (9 April 2011)

Black_Horse said:



			TBH its all very commending the BBC for acknowledging the fatalities but i dont think they could really have hidden from is as thousands of people say the horrid sight of the green covers....
		
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I was quite surprised they didn't leave the screens up around the body, I know it wouldn't have changed anything but it wouldn't have made it quite so obvious to the jockeys/watching nation what had happened.

The sight of those green covers turned my stomach and did take the thrill away from the rest of the race 

Not criticising anyone btw, just mulling over what went on.


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## milesjess (9 April 2011)

I enjoy watching the national and it's lovely to watch the race horses who are fit, doing what they are bred and trained for.

Such a shame that two horses lost their lives and I hope they RIP  

I certainly don't agree with people who slate the national and racing industry in general. The horses are well cared for and all those connected to them must be devastated at the loss. 

As said by other posters, horses die in other disciplines and every day, but the national is so publicised that people criticise it.

It was nice to see that the deaths were acknowledged and condolences passed on.


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## meandmyself (9 April 2011)

I feel really sorry for their people-must be nothing worse than driving home with an empty box.


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## JDChaser (9 April 2011)

It's always so funny when Kitsune potrays herself as the face of forum morality  Some of us remember your alter egos, so watch who you start calling out.


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## WoopsiiD (9 April 2011)

Its only perceived as cruel by some when the people 'in the know' act like heartless fools, belittling those who show compassion.

If you want people to think that you adore your animals and care why not start by acting like a person who sees the horse as a powerful, beautiful creature who even in deaths deserves respect?


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## black_horse (9 April 2011)

3Beasties said:



			I was quite surprised they didn't leave the screens up around the body, I know it wouldn't have changed anything but it wouldn't have made it quite so obvious to the jockeys/watching nation what had happened.

The sight of those green covers turned my stomach and did take the thrill away from the rest of the race 

Not criticising anyone btw, just mulling over what went on.
		
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I know the feeling  im a horse lover, and i am also practical, but it doesnt make a death any less potent...


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## jenbleep (9 April 2011)

Hedgewitch13 said:



			RIP brave horses.
		
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Yes  I love this race but the absolute worst part is seeing horses die!


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## black_horse (9 April 2011)

JDChaser said:



			It's always so funny when Kitsune potrays herself as the face of forum morality  Some of us remember your alter egos, so watch who you start calling out.
		
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Could you like your pot and kettle back? seems like you might need them -.-


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## china (9 April 2011)

your all as bad as eachother!
did they say anymore about the jockey that had the very bad fall early on in the day??


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## Milanesa (9 April 2011)

RIP brave horses, vicki lovely to put those pics up to remember them. It is such a shame to lose horses like that, so sad xx


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## Ranyhyn (9 April 2011)

Yeah when under fire bring out the same tripe again - JD you are very boring, try a new record - you might find yourself less tedious....maybe...

No-one here has a problem with me, stop trying desperately to get the heat off your cronies, it wont work


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## black_horse (9 April 2011)

china said:



			your all as bad as eachother!
did they say anymore about the jockey that had the very bad fall early on in the day??
		
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Cant see anything on google...hope he's ok  that really would be too tragic


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## meandmyself (9 April 2011)

china said:



			you're all as bad as eachother!
did they say anymore about the jockey that had the very bad fall early on in the day??
		
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No word yet. I'm hoping he's okay.


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## Hedgewitch13 (9 April 2011)

We probably are China but it's only because some of us care. No bad thing really


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## Maesfen (9 April 2011)

The first time I've seen them go around fences in the National, normally they're pulled out of the way but that was before they altered the course to allow this; understandably, they were still working on the one or a jockey at Becher's.

Otherwise a great race.


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## Ranyhyn (9 April 2011)

WoopsiiD said:



			Its only perceived as cruel by some when the people 'in the know' act like heartless fools, belittling those who show compassion.
		
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Really well said Woops.


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## WoopsiiD (9 April 2011)

I'd rather have the compassionate if not slightly schitzo kitsune in my corner.........

Compassion is not a weakness.


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## Vickijay (9 April 2011)

pony person said:



			RIP brave horses, vicki lovely to put those pics up to remember them. It is such a shame to lose horses like that, so sad xx
		
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I was umming are rrring about posting the pics of them but think they both looked so lovely that it was nice too


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## Ranyhyn (9 April 2011)

Reformed Skitzo if you please


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## JDChaser (9 April 2011)

Yeah anyway, I should go and meet my friend who Kitsune cyber bullied so badly on a different forum that she gave up riding and started self harming. Bye bye.


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## Maesfen (9 April 2011)

Kitsune said:



			No-one here has a problem with me, stop trying desperately to get the heat off your cronies, it wont work 

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You might be wrong there, don't take things for granted.


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## xspiralx (9 April 2011)

JDChaser said:



			Yeah anyway, I should go and meet my friend who Kitsune cyber bullied so badly on a different forum that she gave up riding and started self harming. Bye bye.
		
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How on earth is that relevant to this post?

One thing I cannot stand is when people make entirely unrelated digs in an attempt to get the upper hand


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## meandmyself (9 April 2011)

Well, as far as I'm concerned, there's nothing wrong with having a bit of compassion for the horses that died. Yes, horses die. Doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with caring about it.


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## Alec Swan (9 April 2011)

I've also posted this on another thread,  but did anyone hear Richard Pitman's unfortunate gaff,  when he referred to Hedgehunter,  as Hedgec*unter?  That'll live with him for a day or two!!

A great race,  and so sad to see the losses.  My condolences to the yard staff who will be dreadfully upset.

Alec.


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## WoopsiiD (9 April 2011)

Kitsune said:



			Reformed Skitzo if you please 

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LOL ok reformed!!!


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## WoopsiiD (9 April 2011)

JDChaser said:



			Yeah anyway, I should go and meet my friend who Kitsune cyber bullied so badly on a different forum that she gave up riding and started self harming. Bye bye.
		
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Bye then!

xspiralx-its the age old tactic of taking someone 'down' with you when the kitchen heats up.


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## china (9 April 2011)

JDChaser said:



			Yeah anyway, I should go and meet my friend who Kitsune cyber bullied so badly on a different forum that she gave up riding and started self harming. Bye bye.
		
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reeeaaalllyyyy!! any need to post that??? not really!


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## JDChaser (9 April 2011)

Of course there's nothing wrong with compassion - i've had to sit in an empty lorry home from the races before and literally bawled by eyes out for 3 hours after a horse I looked after for years died. But the point is, it is not the only thing about racing and I get fed up of the people who only ever concentrate on the negatives of horse racing. You always read on here people who talk about racehorses 'getting shoved off to the abbatoir once they're retired' or 'looking too skinny and poorly looked after' and it's very insulting from a racing groom's point of view, when I work 12 days a fortnight, 12 hours a day to give them everything they need.. The horses where I work have the life of riley, they're looked after by a large team who adore them and we are all gutted whenever we lose one. BUT we still love the sport and recognise the risks, and understand that these are athletes who are bred for a job.


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## black_horse (9 April 2011)

JDChaser said:



			Yeah anyway, I should go and meet my friend who Kitsune cyber bullied so badly on a different forum that she gave up riding and started self harming. Bye bye.
		
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Supprised she is your friend as you seem to show little compassion for anything with a heartbeat...maybe your friend needs to relise that you CAN switch a computer off and walk away and not use it as an excuse for the realisation of other emotional turmoils going on in their life?

Was there really any need to bring that up! Mind you, if you were my friend (and i am so glad you are not) i would be looking at the behaviour displayed on here and think twice!

Way to win a discussion btw, well done(!)


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## zefragile (9 April 2011)

Stencilface said:



			RIP to the two horses, not a bad race by all accounts though.  Can lose more than one horse in a normal race so 2/40 acceptable I think.
		
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 I don't know if it was your intention, but saying that 2 horses dying is acceptable sounds awful.


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## mcnaughty (9 April 2011)

For what it is worth (probably bugger all) I too was pretty angry that the "rerun" comentators referred to the dead and injured horse as "obstacles" - I did however wait to see if Claire Baldwin would put things right and yes she did.

The first faller by the looks of him broke his neck as you can clearly see his legs peddaling in the death throws - don't know about the Beecher Brook faller.

The commentators would have known immediately the fate of that animal, in fact the appearance of the green tarpaulin would have confirmed that outcome.

I will add at this point that I am a horse racing lover in all shapes and sizes and am an obsessional fan of the GN and always will be.

Cannot understand why the first faller was not removed from the course though?

As for the rest of you that are behaving like children to each other - FFS GROW UP!


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## mcnaughty (9 April 2011)

Alec Swan said:



			I've also posted this on another thread,  but did anyone hear Richard Pitman's unfortunate gaff,  when he referred to Hedgehunter,  as Hedgec*unter?  That'll live with him for a day or two!!

A great race,  and so sad to see the losses.  My condolences to the yard staff who will be dreadfully upset.

Alec.
		
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LOL - suppose you don't know roughly when??  I have it Sky Plused....


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## WoopsiiD (9 April 2011)

JD-now that was a much better post!
I've been to racing yards, I've seen the stables-one had padded walls, central heating the works! I have no doubt that the horse in that particular box wanted for nothing.

I've been to vetinary centres of excellence with my shaggy happy hacker only to be stabled next to a well known trainers horse whose injury was career ending BUT was still having the life saving treatment so as he could go on to be a happy hacker!

In the original posts you did seem to be mocking those of us who were offended at the use of the word 'obstacle' to describe the two noble creatures lying on the turf after giving their all.


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## hudsonw (9 April 2011)

zefragile said:



 I don't know if it was your intention, but saying that 2 horses dying is acceptable sounds awful.
		
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SF did explain earlier that she didn't mean to use the word "Acceptable" but couldn't think of another way to put it.

I think she meant to say that it could have been worse and was relieved that everyone else came home safe.


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## jenbleep (9 April 2011)

hudsonw said:



			SF did explain earlier that she didn't mean to use the word "Acceptable" but couldn't think of another way to put it.

I think she meant to say that it could have been worse and was relieved that everyone else came home safe.
		
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I said this on another thread and it's not 'acceptable' but I understand what was meant, at least it was two and not 10, 15 etc...any horse who was in a bad way has had the best care and the ones that died probably wouldn't have felt it, yes confused, but with all that adrenaline I doubt they would have been in a lot of pain


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## lhotse (9 April 2011)

Don't want to get involved in the arguement here, but I have to say that I can't find anything wrong in any of JDChaser's posts. I think if anyone is out of order here, it is Black Horse. Im not involved in the racing industry, but from what I have seen over many years, these horses get the best possible treatment, and are well loved by their connections, most of all by the grooms who look after them everyday. They get the best possible veterinary treatment, the best food and a quick end if that is their destiny.

In contrast, many other horses and ponies are overfed and given laminitis, turned out on ragwort infested paddocks to suffer liver failure later on, badly ridden in gadgets that riders don't understand how to use correctly........shall I go on?

So, although it is very sad that two horses have lost their lives today, they had the best of treatment while they were living. Can that be said about every other horse and pony living in the UK? 

No.


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## lcsd114 (9 April 2011)

Hi everyone!

  I am so glad to find a horse forum that can talk about the Grand National and the sad fatalities today with decorum and reason.  I wish I'd thought to find this page earlier.
  I am a horse lover and (as another poster said earlier) a Grand National obsessive!  I understand how heartbreaking it is to have die and, to be honest, I had a sick feeling as soon as Ornais fell and they were flagged around the fences, which marred my enjoyment of the race (GN day is like Christmas for me!)  However, I hate when animal activists jump on the bandwagon and start calling for the race's ban after a day like this, which I know is coming.

  Anyway, hi from the US and I will be visiting these forums regularly now


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## muddy boots (9 April 2011)

lhotse said:



			Don't want to get involved in the arguement here, but I have to say that I can't find anything wrong in any of JDChaser's posts. I think if anyone is out of order here, it is Black Horse. Im not involved in the racing industry, but from what I have seen over many years, these horses get the best possible treatment, and are well loved by their connections, most of all by the grooms who look after them everyday. They get the best possible veterinary treatment, the best food and a quick end if that is their destiny.

In contrast, many other horses and ponies are overfed and given laminitis, turned out on ragwort infested paddocks to suffer liver failure later on, badly ridden in gadgets that riders don't understand how to use correctly........shall I go on?

So, although it is very sad that two horses have lost their lives today, they had the best of treatment while they were living. Can that be said about every other horse and pony living in the UK? 

No.
		
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Have to say I agree with the points made here. Yes, it is really sad and I did get that horrible sick feeling when I saw the tarpaulin and screens, but in this industry the horses are well cared for. 

Now the ones that don't make it and don't make it in riding homes ....... thats another sad part of the industry. Also retired race horses, even Hallo Dandy ending up in a charity. Yes, there is a dark side to the industry - but there are a lot worse - horses in pain, neglected, passed around many homes. I believe the 2 today had a quick end and good lives. It is still trahic and my thoughts go out to all involed.


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## Kadastorm (9 April 2011)

Great job done by the winner, he deserves all the attention but it is a shame that it has been darkened by the deaths of the two horses. 

It is a very sad thing to happen, but it could have happened anywhere. 
I am a racing fan, but i always watch the GN through my fingers. Its thrilling, exciting and terrifying at the same time. 

Well done Ballabriggs


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## Puppy (9 April 2011)

Black_Horse said:



			This, though i have not met any nice people in racing for such a long time, just bullish ignorant people who pride their own egos over the horse flesh they ride....
		
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Hang on a minute, aren't you into dressage?!


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## black_horse (9 April 2011)

lhotse said:



			Don't want to get involved in the arguement here, but I have to say that I can't find anything wrong in any of JDChaser's posts. I think if anyone is out of order here, it is Black Horse. Im not involved in the racing industry, but from what I have seen over many years, these horses get the best possible treatment, and are well loved by their connections, most of all by the grooms who look after them everyday. They get the best possible veterinary treatment, the best food and a quick end if that is their destiny.

In contrast, many other horses and ponies are overfed and given laminitis, turned out on ragwort infested paddocks to suffer liver failure later on, badly ridden in gadgets that riders don't understand how to use correctly........shall I go on?

So, although it is very sad that two horses have lost their lives today, they had the best of treatment while they were living. Can that be said about every other horse and pony living in the UK? 


No.
		
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Ah but you have a personal grudge against me  im THAT special  haha idiot -.-


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## sleepingdragon10 (9 April 2011)

JDChaser said:



			Of course there's nothing wrong with compassion - i've had to sit in an empty lorry home from the races before and literally bawled by eyes out for 3 hours after a horse I looked after for years died. But the point is, it is not the only thing about racing and I get fed up of the people who only ever concentrate on the negatives of horse racing. You always read on here people who talk about racehorses 'getting shoved off to the abbatoir once they're retired' or 'looking too skinny and poorly looked after' and it's very insulting from a racing groom's point of view, when I work 12 days a fortnight, 12 hours a day to give them everything they need.. The horses where I work have the life of riley, they're looked after by a large team who adore them and we are all gutted whenever we lose one. BUT we still love the sport and recognise the risks, and understand that these are athletes who are bred for a job.
		
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I alsolutely agree here.
It's one aspect of racing picked upon by those who have an anti racing agenda, without giving due consideration to the vast amounts of care and concern shown to the horses during their careers, and after.


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## lhotse (9 April 2011)

Puppy said:



			Hang on a minute, aren't you into dressage?!  

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Dressage, is that where the horses are deemed to valuable to be allowed time out in a field so they have to be led in hand for grass??? Or turned out in individual mini paddocks so never have the chance of a normal horsey life?

Mybe I'm confused


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## black_horse (9 April 2011)

Puppy said:



			Hang on a minute, aren't you into dressage?!  

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 nicely played, dont get me started! I take that back, i remember meeting a groom a while back who worked for a local NH trainer near where i live. She loved her job and treated the horses in her care with 5* care. They were more then a job, they were her horses and she loved watching them grow into fantastic atheletes and if they were cut down in their prime she was devestated.

Im not tarring everyone with the same brush, but to show absolutle lack of compassion is just as bad as to be blinded by all the pretty ponies running in pain viewpoint *rolls eyes*


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## black_horse (9 April 2011)

lhotse said:



			Dressage, is that where the horses are deemed to valuable to be allowed time out in a field so they have to be led in hand for grass??? Or turned out in individual mini paddocks so never have the chance of a normal horsey life?

Mybe I'm confused
		
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As my horse lives out over night, yes without boots on  i beg to differ

See, not everyone fits the sterotype


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## lhotse (9 April 2011)

Black_Horse said:



			Ah but you have a personal grudge against me  im THAT special  haha idiot -.-
		
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Why the hell would I have a grudge against you? I don't think I've ever replied to any of your posts before?
Strange person.


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## black_horse (9 April 2011)

lhotse said:



			Why the hell would I have a grudge against you? I don't think I've ever replied to any of your posts before?
Strange person.
		
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Sorry my bad i was thinking of someone else and realised on research it wasnt you! excuse my dumbness!


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## misterjinglejay (9 April 2011)

Welcome lcsd114 - sit back and enjoy the ride!


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## Serenity087 (9 April 2011)

Well, now this has descended into "I hate you" "No, I HATED YOU FIRST!" I shall back out..

Nothing against racing.  They're not pets.  But it doesn't mean their deaths are meaningless.


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## lcsd114 (9 April 2011)

Thanks!


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## Twinkle Twinkle (9 April 2011)

RIP lovely boys run free. Well done Ballabriggs.


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## Love (9 April 2011)

Very sad to lose 2 beautiful animals. Very impressive sidestepping, though from midnight club (ruby walsh), it has to be said, anyone else see it?! 

Congrats to ballabriggs, but again RIP ornais and dooneys gate <3


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## meandmyself (9 April 2011)

From the Racing Post website:




			Jockey Peter Toole, who fell on Classic Fly in the Maghull Novices' Chase earlier on the card, is being kept under sedation in hospital with possible head injuries - according to trainer Charlie Mann.
		
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I really hope that he makes a full recovery.


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## china (9 April 2011)

meandmyself said:



			From the Racing Post website:



I really hope that he makes a full recovery.
		
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thanks for that. Im not surprised at all. he hit the ground extremely hard head first!!!


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## kirstyl (9 April 2011)

milesjess said:



			I enjoy watching the national and it's lovely to watch the race horses who are fit, doing what they are bred and trained for.

Such a shame that two horses lost their lives and I hope they RIP  

I certainly don't agree with people who slate the national and racing industry in general. The horses are well cared for and all those connected to them must be devastated at the loss. 

As said by other posters, horses die in other disciplines and every day, but the national is so publicised that people criticise it.

It was nice to see that the deaths were acknowledged and condolences passed on.
		
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Couldn't have put it better myself, Milejess.  Ps I would like Ballabriggs when he retires!


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## FayeBearr (9 April 2011)

I was deeply upset by the deaths of the two horses today, but i can understand why they were referred to as 'obstacles'  Families with young children will be watching, and I feel that it would be tactless for the commentator to announce 'theres a dead horse by that fence'  It wasn't derogatory, it was just sensitive to the audiences watching at home.
Claire did a fantastic job of announcing the deaths-she treating their passing with respect.
Obviously the achievements of the winning horses are always overshdowed by deaths, and I felt that the BBC did a fantastic job of informing people about the tragic deaths.


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## WoopsiiD (9 April 2011)

Maybe just saying 'And x fence will not be jumped this time due to ongoing veterinary treatment' would IMO have been a happy compromise. 

Those two horses were not obstacles.


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## FayeBearr (9 April 2011)

How quickly are the commentators speaking ? I think thats a bit of a mouthful really to say 'ongoing veterinary treatment' with such a fast paced race.  They were in the way, they were obstacles, the commentators reacted at short notice tactfully. Not in a derogatory manner at all.


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## WoopsiiD (9 April 2011)

Well they managed to inform us that the chequered flags where akin to those used in F1 and that they had never been used before in racing and wasn't it a good job that the design of the course now meant that avoiding the 'obstacles' was a matter of riding out to the side. So I'd say they had plenty of time.


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## Ranyhyn (9 April 2011)

I disagree - I think that very same attitude directly contributes to the ridiculous attitude a lot of people have regarding the end of a horse's life (or any animal's life for that matter)  

There is a horrific, fluffy culture in the UK to sugar coat and dress up the death of an animal.  Anyone watching racing with an ounce of sense, will be aware there is likely to be fatalities in some races.  None more so than the National - it's the ultimate test.  Unless you've been living in a cave for 20 years - you know what you are getting with the national - there are almost always fallers - fallen horses sometimes break things - broken things (necks and legs) result in dead horses.  

I think if we had more reality in this world and death was less a taboo subject we'd have less people holding onto dying, neglected, in-pain animals unable to face putting them down.

I would find it completely feasible for a commentator to say "They are going round fence because of a fallen horse" - if they can't fit _that_ in I'd be giving them the elbow personally!


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## WoopsiiD (9 April 2011)

Kitty people are going to start talking!!!
I agree with you!

It should not have been covered up. The green tarp over one was a give away to the fate of that poor creature. The second horse was screened as the runners did the second lap so at that point may have not been a fatality.

I might be a sentimental old fool but those chaps were someones pride and joy. Everyday someone got up and dedicated their time to looking after those animals.
They deserved a bit more-even in death-than to be referred to as an 'obstacle'.

Everyone one of us that watches that race knows that there is a chance not all will return. I'd also be angry if the poor old jockey that fell was referred to as an obstacle.


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## Ranyhyn (9 April 2011)

Heh people WILL start talking


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