# Loan crisis



## Charmel (29 November 2013)

I have 8 horses/ponies of our own (some retired) and I recently took on loan a 10 year old 15.1 TB X Cob for my 15 year old daughter. It belongs to a friends daughter who was having issues with her. She was scared to push her to do anything. horse didn't load (took 2 hrs when we picked her up) didn't work in an outline and would just tank off if she felt like it and apparently doesnt like being stabled or tied up!

3.5 months on and lots of lessons and patience and 5 local competitions and she is completely different. 

Ties up fine, stays in before shows and if weather wet. Does a lovelly dressage test and jumps 3ft 6 without trying. she has filled out muscled up and looks wonderful now. I changed nearly all her tack. Plus she now will load onto everthing.

The verbal agreement (her dad is my daughters god father so close close friends) was that we would have her for min 3 years after the trial period 1 month, till my daughter goes to Uni. But happy to keep her longer if she didn't want her back or buy her (she has tried to sell her to others 3 times). She has not visited her at all since we had her but has seen her at comps when she has been there watching friends.

I have been pressing for a legal contract

She has now contacted me and said she wants her back and she misses her too much!

She wants to put her in foal!

We can have her till the summer then she wants her back!

What should I do?
My daughter loves riding her and they are a great team already.


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## dianchi (29 November 2013)

Probably best to return now and save on your time and effort.

Shame you didn't get a contract out of her from day 1


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## catwithclaws (29 November 2013)

Unfortunately I don't think you have a leg to stand on. Her horse, her decision. Even if you had a contract in place, she could still take her back at any time. Sadly it's one of the pitfalls of loaning. Feel sorry for your daughter though  just sounds like they wanted some free schooling for the horse


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## Tiddlypom (29 November 2013)

I'm afraid that you can do very little but return the horse when requested. Loans are often tricky and have broken up many friendships. 

Perhaps offer to buy the mare outright?


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## YasandCrystal (29 November 2013)

That's really mean of them and I suspect the owner has seen the horse going well for your daughter and now wants a slice of the action. 
They have let you put in a great deal of work and expertise only to effectively snatch the horse away. Could you not have a heart to heart with the father and get him to see reason?  It is a little insulting for the owner to want the horse back to put in foal when clearly your daughter is getting on so well. I think jealousy may have a part to play here - I don't know what age the owner is, but if she is the same age as your daughter she may see this as rivalry and if older maybe she feels embarrassed that the horse has turned about like this.  Good luck OP - I hate loans for the bad ones like this.


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## Lynsey&Smartie (29 November 2013)

I'm not sure what you can do other than offer to buy her or have a quiet word with her parents about how much your daughter likes her and how poor the market for foals is at the moment and hope that they can convince her that taking her back to breed from isn't a great idea.

If she won't change her mind I would be tempted to give the mare back now as I wouldn't want to keep a horse through the worst part of the year only to have to give it back in the summer and your daughter will bond with the mare even further the longer you keep it.


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## dogatemysalad (29 November 2013)

Its such a shame when the horse is doing so well with you but I guess the horse still belongs to the owners and the arrangements were informal. You could offer to buy her if your daughter is that fond of her ?


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## FestiveFuzz (29 November 2013)

I'm another who would be inclined to offer to purchase the horse (though expect an inflated price now the horse has improved!) or send her back now. I definitely wouldn't be putting any further work into the horse and would be peeved that they expect me to keep said horse over winter only to take it back come summer.

I wouldn't sweat not having a contract too much though as I doubt it would have changed anything.


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## alexandraj (29 November 2013)

Put an offer in to purchase the horse, if they decline, send it back with an invoice for all the feed, bedding, tack, time your daughter has spent improving the horse, etc.


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## Archangel (29 November 2013)

Oh how ridiculous.  So this girl had a horse she couldn't manage and couldn't get rid of fast enough.  Now she wants her back to breed a foal?  Lovely.  Can you imagine a nice foal proud mare?

I second a conversation with the father plus I would say take the horse back, like now, like this minute - see how she gets along in the nice dark winter.  

How rotten for your daughter.


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## Spudlet (29 November 2013)

Not much you can do - although I'd send them a link to this: http://www.worldhorsewelfare.org/needtobreed if they want to randomly put her in foal, especially if they were too scared to do anything with her recently.


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## Charmel (29 November 2013)

Tiddlypom said:



			I'm afraid that you can do very little but return the horse when requested. Loans are often tricky and have broken up many friendships. 

Perhaps offer to buy the mare outright?
		
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I offer to buy her for the amount she tried to sell her for before we had her but she said she isn't for sale. She wants us to keep her till summer but I don't think thats fair really. I could go and buy another but I thought we were helping her out she is still a kid at 18 and cant cope with the mare. The mare is too sentsitive for her she needs correct riding and consistency. Not a happy hacker once every couple of weeks living out and getting other to check her. The Mare has transformed she calls to us when we walk on the yard and because we live there she sees us all the time.


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## smellsofhorse (29 November 2013)

Talk to the father.
A frank discussion about all the work you have put in, the plans you had and the verbal agreement you made.
It sounds like they have seen her do well and want back a perfect horse with no work from them.
Ask to buy her now or send her back straight away.

Sounds like sour grapes.

That's the problem with loaning with no contract.


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## Goldenstar (29 November 2013)

RebelRebel said:



			Oh how ridiculous.  So this girl had a horse she couldn't manage and couldn't get rid of fast enough.  Now she wants her back to breed a foal?  Lovely.  Can you imagine a nice foal proud mare?

I second a conversation with the father plus I would say take the horse back, like now, like this minute - see how she gets along in the nice dark winter.  

How rotten for your daughter.
		
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Me too ,
I would return the mare now just when the weathers getting bad with an offer to buy no mucking around no discussion , just I will drop the mare back on say Saturday am would love to buy at whatever price but have think let me know and I 'll see you when I drop her off
Awful thing for a child , just get it over with .


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## Archangel (29 November 2013)

It is heartbreaking for you, but the 18 year old kid needs to wake up and smell the coffee.  Of course she wants you to keep her until the summer the stupid girl doesn't want the actual reality of looking after a horse, she just wants a cuddly wuddly foalie woalie... it makes me so cross.

ETS - poor mare btw.


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## FestiveFuzz (29 November 2013)

Charmel said:



			I offer to buy her for the amount she tried to sell her for before we had her but she said she isn't for sale. She wants us to keep her till summer but I don't think thats fair really. I could go and buy another but I thought we were helping her out she is still a kid at 18 and cant cope with the mare. The mare is too sentsitive for her she needs correct riding and consistency. Not a happy hacker once every couple of weeks living out and getting other to check her. The Mare has transformed she calls to us when we walk on the yard and because we live there she sees us all the time.
		
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In that case call their bluff. Say you appreciate they miss the mare but that you think in this case it would be best if she were returned this weekend before your daughter gets even more attached. I suspect the idea of having to deal with her in winter might cause a U turn.


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## alainax (29 November 2013)

GG2B said:



			In that case call their bluff. Say you appreciate they miss the mare but that you think in this case it would be best if she were returned this weekend before your daughter gets even more attached. I suspect the idea of having to deal with her in winter might cause a U turn.
		
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This. 

She wants to end the loan, in which case give her the horse back now before you invest any further in it. If she doesn't want it back this winter then you agree to keep her however only with the written contract for 3 years as you stated previously.


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## dianchi (29 November 2013)

GG2B said:



			In that case call their bluff. Say you appreciate they miss the mare but that you think in this case it would be best if she were returned this weekend before your daughter gets even more attached. I suspect the idea of having to deal with her in winter might cause a U turn.
		
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This, and call the parents to arrange the return not the daughter


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## SadKen (29 November 2013)

How annoying - verbal contracts aren't worth anything unfortunately. 

I would also speak to the parents and confirm a return tomorrow morning. No way would I be improving the mare through the winter to return in summer. 

I'd suspect that it's either jealousy and a wish to collect ribbons on the back of your hard work, or a wish to collect a fat sale cheque on the back of your hard work.  I would therefore do my utmost to scupper this!  Good luck, I hope the owner sees sense.


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## 9tails (29 November 2013)

Charmel said:



			I offer to buy her for the amount she tried to sell her for before we had her but she said she isn't for sale. She wants us to keep her till summer but I don't think thats fair really. I could go and buy another but I thought we were helping her out she is still a kid at 18 and cant cope with the mare. The mare is too sentsitive for her she needs correct riding and consistency. Not a happy hacker once every couple of weeks living out and getting other to check her. The Mare has transformed she calls to us when we walk on the yard and because we live there she sees us all the time.
		
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Send her back now.  Watch closely, within a month she'll be up for sale reduced even further than before.  It won't take long her her to go back to what you already have.

The kid is 18, I can't see what the dad has to do with it quite honestly.


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## HazyXmas (29 November 2013)

Unbelievable! As someone else said, i think that it's partly jealousy about how well your daughter is doing with her & partly thinking she may be worth lots more money by next summer if you continue with all the hard work.

I'd be calling them now & putting an offer on the table, if they don't take it, drop her off in the morning, i'd be very surprised if you didn't get a call within a month offering you the chance to buy.

I wouldn't bother going down a loan contract route, they could still pull this sort of stunt even with a contract. For the sake of your friendship, buy her or do not help them again.

Good luck, i hope you do manage to get her, let us know.


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## puppystitch (29 November 2013)

This is tough, and such a shame for your daughter. If the genuine reason that they want the horse back is because they 'miss' it, then surely they would be asking for it back as soon as possible, not asking you to get it through the winter? I'd definitely be in touch with the parents, not the 18 year old.


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## babymare (29 November 2013)

Im another saying return this weekend. sorry you pay to keep her in winter? No way. and as for breeding from her?how ridiculous. Return Asap. i feel for your daughter as she sounds like done good job


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## 9tails (29 November 2013)

I can't see how the parents are in any way involved in this.  OP only states that the dad is her daughter's Godfather, it doesn't look like there was any involvement from them in the initial loan agreement.  If OP goes to the parents and tries to strong arm the 18 year old, I reckon it will all go sour.  Send the horse back to the 18 year old without involving the parents this weekend, the 18 year old has to then either fess up or struggle through winter.


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## mischamoo (29 November 2013)

Charmel said:



			She wants us to keep her till summer QUOTE] I bet she does OP!!!!! I'd love for someone to pay my horse's keep throughout winter too!

Return the mare ASAP if an offer from you to purchase is rejected.
		
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## zaminda (29 November 2013)

I would be ringing her and saying I would either buy her for the original price, or she can have her back tomorrow. Must say if I was your daughter I would be furious, and rather vocal about the plain spiteful way the girl is behaving.


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## Charmel (29 November 2013)

9tails said:



			I can't see how the parents are in any way involved in this.  OP only states that the dad is her daughter's Godfather, it doesn't look like there was any involvement from them in the initial loan agreement.  If OP goes to the parents and tries to strong arm the 18 year old, I reckon it will all go sour.  Send the horse back to the 18 year old without involving the parents this weekend, the 18 year old has to then either fess up or struggle through winter.
		
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The dad has no input tries not to get too involved, accept he pays instead of giving her pocket money and he says one of the two she has would have to go. She has been on loan a couple of times and returned I feel sorry for the MARE she is a sweetheart when someone like my daughter rides her but she draws confidence from her rider and panics if shouted at, hence her failing with the current owner.
I have known the girl all her life and she has spent lots of time with me and my girls maybe it is jealousy. she has just got a job been there four days maybe thats why she wants her back....


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## carthorse (29 November 2013)

Send back straight away.Dont loan her as they can take her back whenever they like even with contract.
So sorry for your daughter and mare but dont be taken for a fool.


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## Charmel (29 November 2013)

How much do you think I should offer for her. She cost her owner £1400 two years ago and she has done nothing with her since. 

She is 10 yo tbxcob bay mare very fit and good in all ways now! Was strong in gag but like a baby in her french link. Since I have had here she has jumped and won at 3ft 6 and got 68 in her first dressage test ( should improve now extra lessons) she has gone training at x country and flew everything.

She hacks out alone company anywhere...but before we had her, her owner wont take her out without someone and never on grass.....

Her value has probably doubled in 3.5 months TBH

So how much do I offer.....She has tried selling her for £2500, £1200 and £1600 in the past.......


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## Patterdale (29 November 2013)

I would just send her back ASAP with my best wishes and move on. 

This is the risk you take with loaning, surely you knew this might happen?


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## alainax (29 November 2013)

Charmel said:



			How much do you think I should offer for her. She cost her owner £1400 two years ago and she has done nothing with her since. 

She is 10 yo tbxcob bay mare very fit and good in all ways now! Was strong in gag but like a baby in her french link. Since I have had here she has jumped and won at 3ft 6 and got 68 in her first dressage test ( should improve now extra lessons) she has gone training at x country and flew everything.

She hacks out alone company anywhere...but before we had her, her owner wont take her out without someone and never on grass.....

Her value has probably doubled in 3.5 months TBH

So how much do I offer.....She has tried selling her for £2500, £1200 and £1600 in the past.......
		
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£1400, what she paid for her. If the only reason the horse is now worth more is down to the training you put in, at your cost. Essentially the horse may be worth less now than she was worth 2 years ago, due to the horse market being pants and the horse being older - she is only worth more due to the work you put in. 

I'd think £1400 isn't an insult, but she may have in her mind now that the horse is a super star and she can make a pretty penny from it.


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## mischamoo (29 November 2013)

Charmel said:



			How much do you think I should offer for her. She cost her owner £1400 two years ago and she has done nothing with her since. 

She is 10 yo tbxcob bay mare very fit and good in all ways now! Was strong in gag but like a baby in her french link. Since I have had here she has jumped and won at 3ft 6 and got 68 in her first dressage test ( should improve now extra lessons) she has gone training at x country and flew everything.

She hacks out alone company anywhere...but before we had her, her owner wont take her out without someone and never on grass.....

Her value has probably doubled in 3.5 months TBH

So how much do I offer.....She has tried selling her for £2500, £1200 and £1600 in the past.......
		
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If you cannot bare to part with her by simply sending her back then I'd be offering the owner £1,400 which is what they paid for her. The price she is worth now is due to the hard work and money you have put in to the horse.


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## Charmel (29 November 2013)

Patterdale said:



			I would just send her back ASAP with my best wishes and move on. 

This is the risk you take with loaning, surely you knew this might happen?
		
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I loan out a pony my daughter has grown out of on our own yard...loaned for two years now no issues and I would dream of taking pony back off the child. 

Never loant off someone before always bought but close close friends and thought I would be helping. 

Just want to know how much to offer her now....I have invested quite a lot of time, effort and money into her already, thinking she was staying for three years at least....


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## Charmel (29 November 2013)

I will try £1400 if all think this is a fair price....

Wish I hadn't got her to begin with really.... My other daughter has two TBs which didnt cost anywhere near that as ex racers and they are just lovely...again time effort and money put in but very little initial outlay.

Thing is quite attached now if you met her you would understand why!


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## FestiveFuzz (29 November 2013)

Charmel said:



			How much do you think I should offer for her. She cost her owner £1400 two years ago and she has done nothing with her since. 

She is 10 yo tbxcob bay mare very fit and good in all ways now! Was strong in gag but like a baby in her french link. Since I have had here she has jumped and won at 3ft 6 and got 68 in her first dressage test ( should improve now extra lessons) she has gone training at x country and flew everything.

She hacks out alone company anywhere...but before we had her, her owner wont take her out without someone and never on grass.....

Her value has probably doubled in 3.5 months TBH

So how much do I offer.....She has tried selling her for £2500, £1200 and £1600 in the past.......
		
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It depends how much you want her. Going against the grain here I'd be inclined to offer £2,500 as I suspect her intention is to try and flog her for a pretty penny next summer and therefore getting back what she originally paid won't cut it if she thinks she can turn a profit next year.


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## Sologirl (29 November 2013)

Sounds like they are taking the p*ss!! If they really missed her they'd be on your doorstep to pick her up now, not conveniently waiting til the weather improves!! I agree with GG2B, I don't think they'll accept £1400 as they will be more than aware of the hard work you've put in and that she'll now be worth more. Depends on your budget and how much you want to keep her of course - make her an offer and if that's refused tell them that the loan is terminated with immediate effect and they they can pick her up at the weekend. Good luck! What a shame  x


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## DEEDEE83 (29 November 2013)

I would send them a bill for livery and schooling due to them going against the verbal agreement. Your daughter has potentially doubled the mares worth at your expense.


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## Amymay (29 November 2013)

Sorry, not read the rest of the thread - but yes, offer her some money.  Even if it has to be over market value to secure her.

If you don't want to do that - take the horse back this weekend.

Edt. Just seem GG2B's post.  £2.5k seems a reasonable amount I'd say. Basically go in high.


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## Product of my youth (29 November 2013)

Yes it's really annoying they've gone back on their word, yes it's all your hard work that's made the mare, but now you have a great relationship with a really versatile allrounder! If they agree to sell her to you and you can afford her then you're the winner!

I agree with amymay go in fairly high with offer pointing out this is a now only offer and you'll be returning her immediately otherwise, best of luck!


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## Maesfen (29 November 2013)

I wouldn't go in at 2500, she'd probably want more so I'd start at 2200, you can always go higher.
Whatever, I certainly would be sending her back ASAP.  I'm furious on behalf of your daughter, so deceitful and spiteful.


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## cobgoblin (29 November 2013)

How about offering 2500 and giving them a livery bill for 3.5 months, and explaining that as they have gone back on their word you don't appreciate being used as a trainer cum livery yard. They can either take the livery price off the 2500 or pay it and have the horse back tomorrow,of course ,if they take longer the bill will go up.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (29 November 2013)

Best to explain the cost of keeping a mare and foal from now to three years from now, and have something thats worth very little. That is just plain badness. I think she will get it back and try to sell it!


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## Amymay (29 November 2013)

Seems overly complicated and spiteful. 

Just offer the money and if you cant agree horse goes back.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (29 November 2013)

In negotiations, I learnt that what you do is say something and then shut up.....
I would ask them to take the horse back this weekend, and see if they ask you to buy it............ 

You can still offer them some money as an afterthought, assuming you want it. Alternatively the girl may offer it to you.
I would certainly play it cool.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (29 November 2013)

The OP has been good to these people and gets dust thrown in her face. I would assume they have been devious.


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## meesha (29 November 2013)

I would say that as your daughter is very upset at losing mare better sooner rather than later so would need to take back this weekend or in next week maybe.  Say you would love to keep her but understand if she wants her back (could mutter would pay£2000 just to keep daughter happy).

Good luck


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## Goldenstar (29 November 2013)

amymay said:



			Seems overly complicated and spiteful. 

Just offer the money and if you cant agree horse goes back.
		
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I really think this is the most likely way to secure the horse for your daughter.


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## HashRouge (29 November 2013)

Goldenstar said:



			I really think this is the most likely way to secure the horse for your daughter.
		
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I think so too, especially as she seems to want the OP to keep the horse until next summer and her dad (from what I understand) pays for the horses. Basically say that you'd like to send the mare back asap to stop your daughter getting more attached, but you would be willing to buy her at X price. Good luck OP, I really hope this one works out for you!


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## lastchancer (29 November 2013)

Drop it off 2 days before Christmas, what a poxy thing to do to you and your girl.


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## Ibblebibble (29 November 2013)

agree with Amymay, make a decent offer, slightly lower than the amount you are willing to pay so that you have room to up your offer, if they decline then tell them that you will be returning the horse next weekend.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (29 November 2013)

Ibblebibble said:



			agree with Amymay, make a decent offer, slightly lower than the amount you are willing to pay so that you have room to up your offer, if they decline then tell them that you will be returning the horse next weekend.
		
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Tell them to pick it up, you will put it on grass livery or whatever suits you at cost, say £10 per day.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (29 November 2013)

Charmel said:



			How much do you think I should offer for her. She cost her owner £1400 two years ago and she has done nothing with her since. 

She is 10 yo tbxcob bay mare very fit and good in all ways now! Was strong in gag but like a baby in her french link. Since I have had here she has jumped and won at 3ft 6 and got 68 in her first dressage test ( should improve now extra lessons) she has gone training at x country and flew everything.

She hacks out alone company anywhere...but before we had her, her owner wont take her out without someone and never on grass.....

Her value has probably doubled in 3.5 months TBH

So how much do I offer.....She has tried selling her for £2500, £1200 and £1600 in the past.......
		
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£1400


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## Ibblebibble (29 November 2013)

MrsD123 said:



			Tell them to pick it up, you will put it on grass livery or whatever suits you at cost, say £10 per day.
		
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and if they don't pay up OP is out of pocket and will have to chase them through small claims, sometimes easier to just take the horse back yourself at least then you don't get messed about with them saying they'll come collect and then not turning up etc.


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## Echo Bravo (29 November 2013)

Offer £1600 don't go higher and ask when do they expect said horse back as you would like stable free before Xmas as you may well be looking for a horse for your daughter, plus you can't give them a bill as your daughter has had said use of horse, just unfortunate she has improved it, rotten lesson to be learnt, just don't take anyone at their word.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (29 November 2013)

I would offer the £1400 and if they say, well its worth more now......... say OK, you ll take the difference as a cash payment for all  your work. i don't see why this girl should get off with it. She will be selling it, but won't find it easy.


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## ridefast (29 November 2013)

GG2B said:



			In that case call their bluff. Say you appreciate they miss the mare but that you think in this case it would be best if she were returned this weekend before your daughter gets even more attached. I suspect the idea of having to deal with her in winter might cause a U turn.
		
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Agree with this. I doubt she'll be wanting to keep her after a winter with her.


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## Pearlsasinger (29 November 2013)

9tails said:



			I can't see how the parents are in any way involved in this.  OP only states that the dad is her daughter's Godfather, it doesn't look like there was any involvement from them in the initial loan agreement.  If OP goes to the parents and tries to strong arm the 18 year old, I reckon it will all go sour.  Send the horse back to the 18 year old without involving the parents this weekend, the 18 year old has to then either fess up or struggle through winter.
		
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Presumably the parents bought the horse, in fact it probably belongs to them not the daughter, in fact.  If there had been a loan agreement, it is quite likely that the parents would have been the ones to sign it, as any-one under 18 (which the daughter might well have been) isn't legally allowed to sign a contract.
I think OP should speak to the father, who may well not know what his daughter is planning.  Who will pay for the feed etc, not to mention the stud fee, if the horse is returned?  I'd be very surprised if it is the 18 yr old.


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## Tobiano (29 November 2013)

It must be v difficult for you OP as you are friends with the owners.  Dont know how I would respond if it were me, as if someone caused my daughter an upset like this I would not be too keen on staying friends!  So can see it is a very difficult situation.  Bottom line, in your place I would put my daughter's interests at the top of the list and try and work from there.  Either buy the mare for something more than she is probably worth excluding your work, or send her straight back and get your daughter something that she will love even more.  Hope you can figure it all out. x


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## Loubidy (29 November 2013)

Pearlsasinger said:



			Presumably the parents bought the horse, in fact it probably belongs to them not the daughter, in fact.  If there had been a loan agreement, it is quite likely that the parents would have been the ones to sign it, as any-one under 18 (which the daughter might well have been) isn't legally allowed to sign a contract.
I think OP should speak to the father, who may well not know what his daughter is planning.  Who will pay for the feed etc, not to mention the stud fee, if the horse is returned?  I'd be very surprised if it is the 18 yr old.
		
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Wouldn't be too sure, my horses are mine even though my mum bought them..


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## Gingerwitch (29 November 2013)

I would tell the girl that the pony will be returned next weekend, as she has said the loan will be discontinued next summer - and you need the stable for your daughters new horse.  Obviously say that its such a pity that it has not worked out, and would she consider £1200 cash for the pony ? - as a month or two on livery would soon start building up.

Be firm, very firm, dont say anything else - just ask for a location for next Saturday - it gives her a wee while to think things through


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## Kaida (29 November 2013)

This is an awful thing for them to do to you, and worse given that they are a friend!  It must be heartbreaking for you and for your daughter.  I would definitely agree with picking up the phone to the dad and saying you feel rather betrayed that this agreement has been broken and that you really feel it is not appropriate for someone who is asking for a horse back because they 'miss' them to wait until Summer.  Say that you would perhaps be willing to buy the horse for the amount originally paid for her (and phrase it like that!) or otherwise you feel it would be better for the horse to go back this weekend.  Then keep very very quiet and wait for their response!!

If you do end up sending the mare back, it would be worth looking for another horse for your daughter, as there are some really good projects going very cheap due to the market and time of year, and it sounds like between you, you could produce a youngster or tricky horse very well.  And that one is one she would own outright and could definitely keep!  Whatever happens, I and I'm sure the other posters would love to know the outcome!


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## Jackster14 (30 November 2013)

Any update OP?


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## 3Beasties (30 November 2013)

I would send the horse back but tell them to contact you if they decide to sell. My guess is you'll hear from them within a short space of time!

Or, produce a bill for livery and training and see what happens.

I certainly wouldn't be paying £2500 for her.


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## Charmel (2 December 2013)

Jackster14 said:



			Any update OP?
		
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Thanks for all your advice....I rang her and said I would drop the horse back to her straight away as I dont want my daughter getting more attached and I will need to go and buy her a horse of her own and will need the stable. 

At first she agreed then she rang back and asked how much was I planning on buying a new horse for. When I asked why she said I could buy the mare from her for £2800. I laughed said no thanks and I had looked at horses on sale for about £1000. We could improve a youngster or tricky horse. 

Next day she rang back to say I could have her for £1800, dropped £1000 overnight.....Again I said if buying I would really prefer something younger......

This morning I had a text asking what is the most I will pay for her because she has been offered £1600by the girl who my daughter beat at showjumping 2 weeks ago?

It frustrates me because there is no way she could sell her to them before we had her. I haven't mentioned any of this to my daughter. I think I am going to have to bite the bullet and just give her what she wants though.....She clearly misses her a lot......She did mention that she thinks she will be worth a lot more in summer after my daughter does a few ODE on her!!!


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## Amymay (2 December 2013)

Pay the money.  £1650 and the deal is done.


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## Orangehorse (2 December 2013)

If you really like her, buy it.  Sounds a reasonable sort of price really.  No good saying what something WILL be worth (we all have our geese that will be swans) but what it is now.

This is a hazard of loaning, sort of happened to me that we took on a pony that the owner couldn't sell, we got it going well, winning PC things and it was more or less sold out from under us.  I was a bit cross, but we had had the pony quite a time and my daughter had nearly grown out of it.  Still rankles that we didn't get a penny from the sale!


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## Roasted Chestnuts (2 December 2013)

amymay said:



			Pay the money.  £1650 and the deal is done.
		
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This ^^^


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## dianchi (2 December 2013)

amymay said:



			Pay the money.  £1650 and the deal is done.
		
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This, and then put a massive bow on the pony and send us a pic!


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## 9tails (2 December 2013)

Agree with Amymay, give her the cash.  If there is another buyer, which may be true or may not be, it would be worth it to secure her.  

I hope you told the owner that your daughter won't be doing anything more with her unless you own her.


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## Charmel (2 December 2013)

Offered her the money and she has accepted. Now wants more for TACK! a rusty gag old indian leather bridle 2 outdoor rugs with a few tears and a synthetic saddle without girth stirrups and she wants an extra £250!!!! I think she is taking the P*** now.
Told her she could come and take all tack back! I already had a spare saddle i had fitted for her and I bought her a new bridle and changed her bit the first weekend I had her!  My recently retired trakener mare is the same size in rugs, boots and tack and has loads of spares.  She wasn't happy


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## Amymay (2 December 2013)

Great news.  Get the cash out today - hand it over.  Get a receipt. Post piccies!


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## Clodagh (2 December 2013)

Well done. Like Amy May says - go now to the bank, take out cash and deliver it to her with all her tack. Write a receipt she just has to sign, get her to sign it and never speak to the evil, conniving tramp again.


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## Charmel (2 December 2013)

amymay said:



			Great news.  Get the cash out today - hand it over.  Get a receipt. Post piccies!
		
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Will do...

And not going to tell my daughter until Christmas morning it will be a great present for her. She is so attached to her already.


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## Jackster14 (2 December 2013)

What a lovely present for your daughter. Glad it had a happy outcome., well played!!


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## Charmel (2 December 2013)

Jackster14 said:



			What a lovely present for your daughter. Glad it had a happy outcome., well played!!
		
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Yes it was a good outcome because we get the horse. It still niggles me though.... What if I didn't have that money.... as it is it was money i had set aside for fencing in the new year.... 

Loaners beware. I certainly won't be doing it again after this lesson.....


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## Goldenstar (2 December 2013)

That's good news , I would feel niggled to but as you say lesson learned and what price your daughters face when you tell her on christmas day , I think we need pictures of that .
It's a good outcome .


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## ester (2 December 2013)

Great outcome  def christmas photos required please!


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## dianchi (2 December 2013)

Fab news!!! Def Christmas day pics please!


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## babymare (2 December 2013)

Oh excellant news. get that cash to her reciept signed. Oh boy please please let us know your daughters reaction. what a christmas pressie  fantastic update x


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## Amymay (2 December 2013)

Above all - be charming and delightful until the deal is done!


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## Roasted Chestnuts (2 December 2013)

Great outcome!! Hand over money, tack and stuff and get a receipt all with a big smile then have nothing else to do with her.

Can't wait to see piccies I'll bet your daughter will go nuts on Xmas day


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## Charmel (2 December 2013)

Black Beastie said:



			Great outcome!! Hand over money, tack and stuff and get a receipt all with a big smile then have nothing else to do with her.

Can't wait to see piccies I'll bet your daughter will go nuts on Xmas day 

Click to expand...

She is going to be so pleased. She had outgrown her last pony (we have kept her though) and although she still rides her (pony 13.3 -14h ish and daughter size 8 but 5ft 7) she is too tall to be competing on her... I had told her I wasn't going to buy her another with her going off to uni in 3 years hence the loan horse. She thought she was going have to share her sisters ex racers!

I might put a bow on her christmas morning!

Thanks everyone for the support.


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## Caramac71 (2 December 2013)

I've been watching this with interest and I am so pleased you got the right outcome.  I would love to be a fly on the wall on Christmas Day - what an amazing present for your daughter!


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## Goldenstar (2 December 2013)

amymay said:



			Above all - be charming and delightful until the deal is done!
		
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Spot on Amymay .


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## Shysmum (2 December 2013)

Great outcome, fantastic !!


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## Cinnamontoast (2 December 2013)

Excellent outcome, OP!



Orangehorse said:



			we all have our geese that will be swans
		
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Ha, love it, so true!!


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## FestiveFuzz (2 December 2013)

So pleased to see this. I'm another who would love to see pics on Christmas Day!


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## MS123 (2 December 2013)

Amazing news! So pleased for you!

I too hope to have a similiar outcome with my loan mare one day 

All the best
x


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## Maesfen (2 December 2013)

Great news and don't forget the passport!


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## Ellies_mum2 (2 December 2013)

What a fab outcome for you  

We definitely need to see the pictures on Christmas morning


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## Apercrumbie (2 December 2013)

Great great news, just get it all sorted within a week - cash, receipt, passport and return tack!

Still angry on your behalf, that was very spiteful.


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## Honey08 (2 December 2013)

Yes a rotten trick, but something that can easily happen with a horse on loan - that is the risk.

Anyway, once you get that receipt  you've got yourself a bargain really, so all's well that ends well!

(we had the exact situation with my stepson's first pony - was initially on loan but we ended up buying her when they said they were going to sell her.  To be honest it was a relief to get rid of the shadow of the owner looming in the background...)


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## Honey08 (2 December 2013)

Deleted as posted twice!


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## tankgirl1 (2 December 2013)

Fantastic outcome! Piccies please


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## Ibblebibble (2 December 2013)

what a great outcome at an acceptable price  please please please take pics on christmas day .x


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## Charmel (3 December 2013)

You are not going to belive this but I received this text last night when i was waiting to meet her with the cash.

"been having a long think & at this moment in time I am not sure what i want to do with her. think i would rather leave her with you for now and discuss further next year"

GUTTED!!


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## Amymay (3 December 2013)

Jesus.

Load the horse up and take it back today.

What a total (insert whichever word you think best suits!)


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## Honey08 (3 December 2013)

Send her back then!  She is playing you again.  Trying to get  you to keep the horse over the winter then she will try and sell her for more.

Text her back and say you've had enough of being messed about and will be dropping the horse back this weekend.  Tell her that you were serious about buying a horse and if its not hers you will be looking for another one to buy asap.  

Stay strong, call her bluff.


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## Dollysox (3 December 2013)

How nasty of her.  I think you have to revert back to your original plan in that case, very sadly.  Phone her and get her to take her back immediately.  As hard as it will be now it will stop her messing you about for the next however many months. Very, very unfair on you and your daughter.


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## OldNag (3 December 2013)

Unbelieveable.  Echo what others have said..  Say you're returning her and have had enough of the messing around. She's taking the blooming wotsit.  
I feel so sorry for you and your daughter, this must be awful.


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## JLD (3 December 2013)

been following but not commented but so so angry now for you !! tell her that is not an option in any way shape or form she is p*****g you about big time and will continue to do so. take horse back today and buy one of your choosing !


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## Kaida (3 December 2013)

How awful! This is really not on, she's messing you around to a ridiculous level. Agree with the others - put your foot down. This is not fair to you or your daughter.


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## 9tails (3 December 2013)

I had a feeling she'd do that.  Agree, tell her to get a stable ready as she's on her way back.  No way is she leaving her with you to pick up all the costs!  Cheeky madam.


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## Jinx94 (3 December 2013)

This is outrageous! Agree with everyone about telling her that you are bringing the horse back immediately. Maybe at this point it would be worth talking to her parents (though I know they can't technically do anything) as I know that mine would read me the riot act for something like this! Might just make her think about what a sod she's being.


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## Charmel (3 December 2013)

The only good thing is that I have kept all this from my daughter so at least she hasn't been subject to a rollercoaster of emotions about this. I was watching her in her lesson yesterday and she was going so nicely. No sign of the stressy tense mare we had 15 weeks ago. Nice relaxed well balanced horse and smiling daughter. I was tempted to tell her last night we wer buying her....Glad I didn't now.....she is going to be so disappointed. I am so angry. 

There isn't a stable free at her yard till January!


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## Amymay (3 December 2013)

Charmel said:



			There isn't a stable free at her yard till January!
		
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That's her problem, not yours.


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## Honey08 (3 December 2013)

Agree with Amymay. Its not your problem, she will have to find another yard..  And be firm, don't give her an easy ride.   Tell her you are pretty upset at how she's treated you and that you feel like ringing her parents up to tell them.  Give her a jolt.

I still think that she may well change her mind again if things get tough.  But if you're soft and offer to make things easy, keeping the horse while she faffs around you are more likely to lose this horse..

Even if the worst came to the worst, you will still have time to find another horse for your daughter before Xmas..  It would be a shame to lose this one, but you can't keep going through this (and you will if the loan situation continues).


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## Kaida (3 December 2013)

Definitely - she either has her back right now or sells her to you. She hasn't done anything to deserve you being nice and keeping her over Christmas and New Year for her! Maybe if you really out your foot down selling her to you will be the only option anyway? Agree about talking with her parents, especially if Dad picks up the bills!


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## JLD (3 December 2013)

absolutely not your problem. her problem to find a yard for the horse. I would give her till the weekend. she is using you for free livery now


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## 9tails (3 December 2013)

amymay said:



			That's her problem, not yours.
		
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Too right.  Don't be sucked in, she needs to stand my her decision and find a home for her horse right now, not January.


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## mjcssjw2 (3 December 2013)

I agree, it really isn't your problem there is no stable at the livery yard, She will let you keep her till next spring doing all the work and sell her when the market picks up and she can get top dollar - cheeky sod
I hate loaning for exactly these reasons.


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## showpony (3 December 2013)

This! What a muppet - return horse asap & prevent any further heartache for your daughter.



Honey08 said:



			Send her back then!  She is playing you again.  Trying to get  you to keep the horse over the winter then she will try and sell her for more.

Text her back and say you've had enough of being messed about and will be dropping the horse back this weekend.  Tell her that you were serious about buying a horse and if its not hers you will be looking for another one to buy asap.  

Stay strong, call her bluff.
		
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## Sugar_and_Spice (3 December 2013)

And when you return the horse make sure you return the tack it came with and keep any new stuff you bought. This owner deserves nothing from you. I can't believe she wants you to keep the horse until the new year. It's taking the mickey. I wouldn't even give them until the weekend I'd take the horse back today. 

She will either sell the horse to you for a fair price or she won't. There's no point holding on and hoping or calling her bluff etc. For all you know she could have read this thread. Just move on and look for your own horse to buy. 

If at some future point you're offered this loan horse to buy at a fair price and you've not yet bought another, then buy her. If not, then you've at least not put your life on hold waiting around, paying out to keep someone else's horse and getting ever more attached, whilst knowing that you'll likely lose her.


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## cambrica (3 December 2013)

I would call her bluff big time. Text her and say the horse MUST be returned this weekend as you have found another you are going to view Sunday. Tell her your daughter is extremely upset and you are now going to make things right for her!


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## Amymay (3 December 2013)

cambrica said:



			Tell her your daughter is extremely upset and you are now going to make things right for her!
		
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I actually disagree and wouldn't be too dramatic about it.  Just keep it very business like.


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## Jackster14 (3 December 2013)

How spiteful, I agree - send her back ASAP.  Sorting a stable is her problem not yours. What is wrong with some people !!


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## skint1 (3 December 2013)

Tell her you are buying a new horse for your daughter for Xmas therefore she must take the mare back asap, the rest is her problem as the owner. The girl is a damn fool if she thinks people are queuing up to buy quirky difficult to load horses like this mare because they're not, for £1650 you could buy something much less complex. Give the mare a month away from you and your daughter and she'll be back how she was and this silly lass will  be lucky to get meat money. What a damn cheek. I am very sorry for you and your daughter. 

My quirky mare got sent back on me just before Xmas last year, my father was very ill at the time and in fact died in early Jan, I was stressed and short of time.  The mare wouldn't load for me or the loaner and it took us about 2 weeks to get her home (having to organise transport, 2 failed attempts, the works) 

The loaner isn't a bad person at all but really didn't care about my personal circumstances. She wanted the mare gone immediately and the rest was my problem. That's the thing about owning a horse that this girl needs to remember.  Grrr I am fuming for you!


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## dianchi (3 December 2013)

Do people not talk these days????? Call her say that you will be returning the horse this weekend, alternatively you will buy her.
Call them on it and keep calm
Good luck


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## Honey08 (3 December 2013)

Just tell her that all this chopping and changing has made you totally certain that you would rather have your own horse than a loan horse, be it buying hers or buying something else...  No need for dramatics.  But I would be mentioning it to her parents, whether she is 18 or not, if my 18yr old had been treating people this way I would be having words with her, whether the horse was mine or hers.


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## ridefast (3 December 2013)

What a horrible girl, take the mare back ASAP and have nothing more to do with her.


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## Kaida (3 December 2013)

As a side note I think it was incredibly rude to fail to show up when you were waiting with the cash and to just send you a text message. Least she could do is turn up! I've just sold a 16hh horse for £1600 with tack and rugs who jumps 3ft happily, hacks safely alone or in company and does nice flatwork. He's a little green but that's his only vice. Good horses are going very cheap in the current market unless they are truly outstanding so she's living in fairy land if she thinks she can sell her in the New Year, especially if this horse reverts once back with her, which seems pretty likely!


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## Goldenstar (3 December 2013)

Be completely buisness like but return the mare at once .
I think you said you knew her father let him know exactly what's gone on and exactly how you feel about it a calm way .
But get the horse back to her pronto it's her problem to find a stable not yours .
If she makes it impossible to return the horse ( that may be her next move ) then I think you should contact her parents and the girl and say the loan is at an end and from today because of the girls behaviour you are chargeing £10 a day for livery until she arranges to pick up the horse ,I would do that verbally or then follow up in writing .
Be calm and firm, the nasty little Madame ,her parents need to teach her some manners .
If the parents are half decent they are not going to be pleased with her if she's a spoiled little princess it's not going to help but at least they have heard your side from you.
I am so angry on your behalf.


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## nagseastsussex (3 December 2013)

Hi any up date OP?


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## MadBlackLab (3 December 2013)

What a b***h. I would return horse and all tack/rugs that came with her. It's owner problem if no stable not yours. Sounds like she been using you as free trainer for the horse and now going nicely wants her for herself. What a horrible person and TBH she doesn't deserve you friendship


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## Tiddlypom (3 December 2013)

What a total to**er. I'm another who had an inkling that this might happen. Return the horse today even if it means handing her over at the front door in the dark.

She's their problem now.


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## abb123 (3 December 2013)

Honestly, I'd turn up at her door today with horse and cash and say she takes one or the other. Her choice.


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## HazyXmas (3 December 2013)

I would be calling the parents & letting them know how appallingly their daughter has behaved towards you & your daughter, i think that they will be horrified.

Get the mare back to her today, she's not your problem if the girl doesn't want to sell her, then she'll have to man up & take responsibility for her.

I really, really feel for you. Luckily, there are lots & lots of good horses out there for sale at bargin prices. Hopefully you can enjoy the search for a new one with your daughter. I'm sure if you need any help a short post of what you'd be looking for on here, will get you lots ideas. Good luck. Keep us posted.


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## Goldenstar (3 December 2013)

abb123 said:



			Honestly, I'd turn up at her door today with horse and cash and say she takes one or the other. Her choice.
		
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Like this one .


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## Charmel (3 December 2013)

Going to speak to her father. He is my daughters godfather afterall and we are pretty close. I was trying not to get him involved but I dont think he is aware what is going on tBH.

If I go and buy something else she will probably be trying to sell her in the new year.....so frustrating.....

She is such a sweet horse, such a shame. Trouble is the owner knows how much we want her.....

A few weeks back with her and the mare will go back to how she was.


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## MadBlackLab (3 December 2013)

abb123 said:



			Honestly, I'd turn up at her door today with horse and cash and say she takes one or the other. Her choice.
		
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Goldenstar said:



			Like this one .
		
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Me too


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## rowan666 (3 December 2013)

abb123 said:



			Honestly, I'd turn up at her door today with horse and cash and say she takes one or the other. Her choice.
		
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^^^ This exactly. Good luck.


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## Kaida (3 December 2013)

Speak with the father ASAP.  Hopefully he will read her the riot act!  If no luck there, then contact her to say you're very sorry, but after the sale was agreed you were really looking forward to surprising your daughter with the good news and it really wouldn't be fair to her to, instead of giving her a horse, take one away just after New Year so you really feel that if you can't buy the horse, you will have to return her this week in order to give you a chance to find her another horse before Christmas.

Hopefully this will give her the kick up the backside she clearly needs!  And if not, then hang onto your money.  Look around at horses but maybe wait until mid-Jan as you may well be right and the mare will revert and she will contact you asking if you still want her.  Not ideal but if you really want this particular horse then worth a try.  To be honest, even if she does revert horses do tend to remember people and places - so would quickly revert with her but also very quickly go back to being how she is now if she came back to you!

Don't let this situation drag on longer than Friday.  Push her to sort it before the end of the week at the latest.  Being young is not an excuse - I have a girl who has just turned 17 working for me full time and she would never dream of behaving so badly!


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## Pinkvboots (3 December 2013)

What a horrible situation how cruel some people can be even those that are supposed to be good friends, I would really angry and upset your poor daughter you have obviously put much work into the horse, and its obvious that why she wants the horse back, I would ask if you can buy the horse if the answer is no I would say collect the horse this week and give her a bill for what the horse has cost you, tough if she has no room until January, I would seriously fall out with this woman she is being really mean and I would tell her exactly what I thought of her, I really feel for you and your Daughter please let us know how you get on good luck x


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## Pinkvboots (3 December 2013)

Just read further down the thread that will teach me just to read the first one, so glad for you what a lovely Christmas present for your Daughter thats made my day that has


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## Perfect_Pirouette (3 December 2013)

Just read this whole thread, was smiling at the confirmation of you being able to buy the horse.....now I am just angry on your behalf.

It is so obvious what she is trying to do....does she realise that I wonder? And if so, does she even care?! 

I would be saying I'm really sorry but you cannot keep the horse for more than another week as we need the stable for the new horse you will be buying your daughter.

I would be very tempted to go with the 'turn up at the door and offer horse or cash' option. She is a silly, 18 year old girl, don't let her outsmart or make a fool out of you.

Tell her you want the horse picked up within 7 days and if that's a problem you will speak to her dad to see if he can sort something out.


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## Goldenstar (3 December 2013)

Charmel said:



			Going to speak to her father. He is my daughters godfather afterall and we are pretty close. I was trying not to get him involved but I dont think he is aware what is going on tBH.

If I go and buy something else she will probably be trying to sell her in the new year.....so frustrating.....

She is such a sweet horse, such a shame. Trouble is the owner knows how much we want her.....

A few weeks back with her and the mare will go back to how she was.
		
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The father is your way forward all is not necessarily lost yet .
It's an apauling way to behave
Good luck .


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## Amymay (3 December 2013)

Pinkvboots said:



			Just read further down the thread that will teach me just to read the first one, so glad for you what a lovely Christmas present for your Daughter thats made my day that has 

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You'll need to read a little bit more.....


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## Meowy Catkin (3 December 2013)

Pinkvboots said:



			Just read further down the thread that will teach me just to read the first one, so glad for you what a lovely Christmas present for your Daughter thats made my day that has 

Click to expand...

There's been a further twist sadly and she now doesn't want to sell. 

OP - I agree with everyone who says go with the horse and the cash and tell her to choose. No way should you keep the mare until January, she (owner) has messed you around too much.


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## Brimmers (3 December 2013)

Nothing extra to add, you've had great advice on here, but I'm absolutely disgusted at the behaviour of this girl. I'm barely older then she is and am horrified that she thinks she can use you like this. Spoilt cow


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## Pinkvboots (3 December 2013)

amymay said:



			You'll need to read a little bit more.....
		
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Thanks Amymay I just read the rest  I cant believe this woman she sounds horrible, I would get her God Father to sort it I am sure he would want your Daughter to have the horse.


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## Amymay (3 December 2013)

Charmel said:



			Going to speak to her father. He is my daughters godfather afterall and we are pretty close. I was trying not to get him involved but I dont think he is aware what is going on tBH.

If I go and buy something else she will probably be trying to sell her in the new year.....so frustrating.....

She is such a sweet horse, such a shame. Trouble is the owner knows how much we want her.....

A few weeks back with her and the mare will go back to how she was.
		
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Good call.

Let us know how you get on.


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## alainax (3 December 2013)

It's really simple, you gave her the two options, she takes the horse back now or you buy it. 

She chose the latter then decided she didnt want to sell, so instanty leaving the option that the horse is then returned immediately. 

She must think you are an absolute mug! Free livery and training over the winter, sounds like a great plan! 

Like the others have said, you have to be completely firm about this or she will just take the utter piss. She takes the horse now or she takes the money, no other options!


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## lastchancer (3 December 2013)

I wouldn't even talk to the girl now, she obviously too immature to behave with any decency. Tell the Father all, and that you will be bringing the cash or the horse tomorrow/at the weekend. And that HE needs to make a final decision on this. If you don't get any joy then go ahead and tie it up outside their house if needs be. And then help your girl find an even better horse


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## Amymay (3 December 2013)

lastchancer said:



			I wouldn't even talk to the girl now, she obviously too immature to behave with any decency.
		
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I actually think this is the bottom line.

We have an expectation that at 18 a person is grown up and mature - however many aren't and I suspect it's this that's the issue, rather than her being malicious (intentionally or otherwise).  My stepson is 18 - but going on 15.


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## angellauren (3 December 2013)

What a nightmare for you, so close to Christmas as well... I think everybody else has given you the best advice so I don't have anything else to suggest but just wanted to say I hope you and your daughter get the mare.


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## Goldenstar (3 December 2013)

amymay said:



			I actually think this is the bottom line.

We have an expectation that at 18 a person is grown up and mature - however many aren't and I suspect it's this that's the issue, rather than her being malicious (intentionally or otherwise).  My stepson is 18 - but going on 15.
		
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If I was one of this  young womens  parents I would be furious with her .


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## Amymay (3 December 2013)

Goldenstar said:



			If I was one of this  young womens  parents I would be furious with her .
		
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Absolutely.  But we may be assuming a level of maturity that she doesn't have.


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## Patterdale (3 December 2013)

abb123 said:



			Honestly, I'd turn up at her door today with horse and cash and say she takes one or the other. Her choice.
		
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This is what I'd do too. 

OP it's obviously v disappointing but there are so many good horses about cheap as chips now, you can easily get something else. 
I certainly wouldn't be having anything more to do with this one if the above suggestion doesn't work.


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## Caol Ila (3 December 2013)

Speaking to Dad is the way forward.  OP tried to treat 18 year old like an adult and not involve Dad in this, and 18 year old has proved that she is incapable of acting like one.  Hopefully Daddy will read her the riot act and OP and daughter will get the horse!


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## Clodagh (3 December 2013)

I really would try to get this sorted soon though - I would hate to be treated like a mug so can't think you like it either and at 18 she needs to learn the meaning of responsibility.


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## SatansLittleHelper (3 December 2013)

Disgusting behaviour 
I have nothing to add but I really hope this all works out for you and your daughter xxx


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## DW Team (3 December 2013)

Having just read all of this OP I just can&#8217;t believe how awfully you have been treated.  I think it would be best for you and your daughter to cut your losses and load the horse up and return it. Godfather to your daughter or not the owner is playing you.  Disgusting behaviour by her.  Is there any possibility that she has been reading this tread and because she knows you really want to keep her she is playing you. There are many good horses out there right now and I am sure you could pick up something much nicer and without the issues. It is not your fault that there is no stable where she want to keep her. Hand the pony back. She wants the horse back after you have done all the work and over wintered in nice NOT.


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## babymare (3 December 2013)

Im sorry ring her say im on my way fetching mare back load mare and deliver back. I personally dont think she is immature but playing games . Return the mare straight away . but also a hug to you as was so  happy when read you were buying her


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## Hoof_Prints (3 December 2013)

Ridiculous, I am with the others who say you should turn up and make her choose between the cash or the horse. I agree she is playing games and being immature, by wanting everything her way and trying to get you to comply ! I had a loan pony once, schooled him up, put £2000 on his price and soon as the winter was over he was up for sale ofc, they then realised they had no rider to show him off to viewers so asked if I wanted him back for a short time! I just laughed at them and they had to sell him as seen from the field, as they were all 20 stone too heavy to ride a 13hh pony   Such a common story, loan owners take the p*ss .


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## showpony (3 December 2013)

Deleted, wrong thread


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## Ibblebibble (3 December 2013)

what a devious little  (insert word of choice) playing games and thinking she can use you as a free livery over the winter!, i would indeed speak to the father but if nothing changes and she still won't sell now i would make it very clear that the mare will be returned at once as you won't have your daughters feeling played with. ohhh i'm quite angry on your behalf, how downright bloomin cheeky!!


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## Battytwoll (3 December 2013)

abb123 said:



			Honestly, I'd turn up at her door today with horse and cash and say she takes one or the other. Her choice.
		
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Absolutely this ^^^^ no question! I do hope you get to take her (the mare!!) back home.


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## Echo Bravo (3 December 2013)

Just tell the father and daughter you are returning said horse fullstop!!


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## Arizahn (3 December 2013)

Echo Bravo said:



			Just tell the father and daughter you are returning said horse fullstop!!
		
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This. In spades.


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## rowan666 (3 December 2013)

Hoof_Prints said:



			Ridiculous, I am with the others who say you should turn up and make her choose between the cash or the horse. I agree she is playing games and being immature, by wanting everything her way and trying to get you to comply ! I had a loan pony once, schooled him up, put £2000 on his price and soon as the winter was over he was up for sale ofc, they then realised they had no rider to show him off to viewers so asked if I wanted him back for a short time! I just laughed at them and they had to sell him as seen from the field, as they were all 20 stone  too heavy to ride a 13hh pony   Such a common story, loan owners take the p*ss .
		
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Not all of us are!! I wouldnt dream of doing this to my loaner!


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## nagseastsussex (4 December 2013)

Hi OP how did you get on with the father?


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## Charmel (4 December 2013)

It turns out that the actual owner as per passport is Dad.

We have agreed a year loan with option to buy at a reduced price £900 to reflect the work we have put into her.

Owner told dad she didn't want to sell to us straight away just in case my daughter grew out of her then we sold her on at a huge profit to someone and she wouldn't know where mare had gone. Incidentally I dont sell horses on, still have elder daughters first pony after 19 years.

As for growing out of her well my daughter is very slim but quite tall at 5ft 7 and almost 16 not sure how much more she is going to grow. 

I have spoken to my daughter and she definitely wants to keep her. I offered to buy her something else, but she wants this mare more, she said that they just click........

So I am going to try this year, hope all goes to plan......not ideal really but going to get contact in writing regardless of how close we are.  

Thanks for all advice and supportive comments.


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## Goldenstar (4 December 2013)

Phew panic over, well done Dad.


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## mjcssjw2 (4 December 2013)

so it would appear this was money driven and she did want you to put the work in


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## Charmel (4 December 2013)

mjcssjw2 said:



			so it would appear this was money driven and she did want you to put the work in
		
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It would seem that way but its looks as if Dad has seen this straight away...Don't really want to wait a year but at least we wont be putting in all the work for someone elses benefit.


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## Polos Mum (4 December 2013)

OP while it sounds good, these type of contracts aren't really worth the paper they are written on because of the large costs involved in enforcing them through the courts if the dad changes his mind in a year when he has to sell you something worth £3k for £900.  
Why don't you suggest buying now with a contract that states they have first refusal for £900 should you ever decide to sell in the future - if that really is the only issue that should fix it. 
How upset will your daughter be in another year if they change their minds?, and if they can't trust you to honour a contract - why should you trust them?
With all that's gone on I wouldn't be keeping and schooling their horse for them for another year - no matter how nice she is or what a contract says.


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## babymare (4 December 2013)

I must agree with polos mum to be honest


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## buddy's mummy (4 December 2013)

Lynsey&Smartie said:



			I'm not sure what you can do other than offer to buy her or have a quiet word with her parents about how much your daughter likes her and how poor the market for foals is at the moment and hope that they can convince her that taking her back to breed from isn't a great idea.

If she won't change her mind I would be tempted to give the mare back now as I wouldn't want to keep a horse through the worst part of the year only to have to give it back in the summer and your daughter will bond with the mare even further the longer you keep it.
		
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this!!


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## Turitea (4 December 2013)

I really like Polos Mum's idea. Offer to buy for £1800 now and if you ever intend to sell and the girl then decides to buy her back for £900, she will have received £900 for the mare. The exact price she is asking for according to the new loan agreement (if you decide to buy in a year's time).


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## Goldenstar (4 December 2013)

babymare said:



			I must agree with polos mum to be honest
		
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Well there is definatly a degree of risk but this man is Charmels daughters god father not a stranger.


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## Polos Mum (4 December 2013)

Goldenstar said:



			Well there is definatly a degree of risk but this man is Charmels daughters god father not a stranger.
		
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Agreed, but sadly even family can be pretty horrible to each other when money becomes involved, I am certainly on the cynical side but I personally wouldn't risk it.  If push comes to shove, it's likely that the guy will side with his own daughter rather than his god daughter.


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## Patterdale (4 December 2013)

Polos Mum said:



			OP while it sounds good, these type of contracts aren't really worth the paper they are written on because of the large costs involved in enforcing them through the courts if the dad changes his mind in a year when he has to sell you something worth £3k for £900.  
Why don't you suggest buying now with a contract that states they have first refusal for £900 should you ever decide to sell in the future - if that really is the only issue that should fix it. 
How upset will your daughter be in another year if they change their minds?, and if they can't trust you to honour a contract - why should you trust them?
With all that's gone on I wouldn't be keeping and schooling their horse for them for another year - no matter how nice she is or what a contract says.
		
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Agree with this. 
These kind of agreements usually go tits up but if you've decided it's worth the risk then that's all there is to it really.


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## Fluffy bunny (4 December 2013)

I don't see why you have to wait a year?? A lot can happen in that time


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## mjcssjw2 (4 December 2013)

Oh cunning plan Polos mum. I would try that.


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## MadBlackLab (4 December 2013)

Agree with *polo's mum*


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## Arizahn (4 December 2013)

A year is plenty of time for the owner's daughter to organise buying the mare from her father, transfer ownership details on the passport, and sort out a spot on a livery yard. Meanwhile the mare is schooled on and presumably improved. Perhaps by the time the new loan period is up, the current owner's daughter will also have improved and be able to manage her. She may even be in full time employment with enough of a wage not to need parental support at all. People change.

Either buy the mare now, or involve the current owner's daughter in her care and training over the next year. 

Perhaps she could come and ride and do yard chores etc once or twice a week. Not usual for a loan, but then you are very close friends with her family. There is always the off chance that this girl is regretting not being able for the mare herself. Involving her could let her become a better rider/handler etc, and would at least mean that your daughter is not left to do everything.

I sincerely doubt that they will want to sell the mare any more in a year than they do now. And given that your daughter will be off to university in three years, along with all the expense that brings, you may end up regretting buying her anyhow. 

Get the owner's daughter involved and bring her on along with the mare. Could be the making of both of them. Given that you are so very close, this to me would actually be the right thing to do. Simply ask for the father to cover the veterinary insurance for the mare as you are covering everything else.


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## Bluecat (4 December 2013)

MadBlackLab said:



			Agree with *polo's mum*

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I have been watching this thread with interest. i totally agree with polos mum. you could school the horse on further in a year and it then be worth even more and your daughter will be 10 x more attached and you could very well be in the same position again and it all the more upsetting for you and you
r daughter.


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## SatansLittleHelper (4 December 2013)

Im another with Polos Mum...
There is no way I would be trusting them to honour any kind of agreement after all thats gone on. If it were me I would insist on purchasing now or sending back...why wait a year..??? Sorry hon but the whole thing just sounds dodgy


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## DipseyDeb (4 December 2013)

mischamoo said:





Charmel said:



			She wants us to keep her till summer QUOTE] I bet she does OP!!!!! I'd love for someone to pay my horse's keep throughout winter too!

Return the mare ASAP if an offer from you to purchase is rejected.
		
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Hmm and while your at it could you keep my 3 through the winter, then return to me (nice and fit and schooled) in the summer!!!
		
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## lastchancer (4 December 2013)

I wouldn't be entertaining them at all now tbh. Good luck with it, but I think it's very likely you'll get more aggro and heartache from these people.


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## Caol Ila (4 December 2013)

I hope it all works out and you know Dad, while the rest of us don't.  

I still don't understand why they couldn't sell you the horse now.  As others said, a lot can change in a year.  The worry about your daughter growing out of her and you selling her sounds like a lame, half-a$$ed excuse, if I ever heard one.  If she is that worried about the horse being sold and disappearing forever, just put a right of first refusal into the sales contract.


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## skint1 (4 December 2013)

Charmel said:



			It turns out that the actual owner as per passport is Dad.

We have agreed a year loan with option to buy at a reduced price £900 to reflect the work we have put into her.

Owner told dad she didn't want to sell to us straight away just in case my daughter grew out of her then we sold her on at a huge profit to someone and she wouldn't know where mare had gone. Incidentally I dont sell horses on, still have elder daughters first pony after 19 years.

.
		
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I do not believe for one hot second that their overriding concern is worrying about where the mare will end up, the girl's main concern appears to be purely pound signs, and she's worried you'll make a profit on the mare where she has failed to. Actions speak louder than words and if she had any genuine love for the mare she'd be spending time with her and maybe learning from your daughter how to get the best from her, seems to me she's not doing that. 

I also agree with Polo's Mum by the way. Good luck and I wish your daughter and her horse many happy years together


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## Maesfen (4 December 2013)

Can't believe how you've been messed about.  TBH, I'd pay now and be done with it, I wouldn't trust a loan even with a contract from them, even with the dad involved; just not worth the heartbreak if they should change their minds or the amount they want for her then IMO.


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## pony5 (4 December 2013)

I would still say either agree to buy now or you will return this weekend - your daughter will only get more attached over the next year and the more the mare improves during this time, the more chance that the owner's daughter will want her back.


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## Honey08 (4 December 2013)

I wouldn't trust them, sadly, whether you know them or not.  Their story changes every time you speak to them.  Money is their motivation - if anyone sells her on next year for more money it will be them.  I think that it is quite likely that this will happen, and if you're certain you're going to keep her, I think you need to make it very clear to your daughter that she may well lose this horse next year..

Personally at this point I think you're crazy to continue and would be better finding something else for your daughter.


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## HazyXmas (4 December 2013)

Charmel said:



			It turns out that the actual owner as per passport is Dad.

We have agreed a year loan with option to buy at a reduced price £900 to reflect the work we have put into her.

Owner told dad she didn't want to sell to us straight away just in case my daughter grew out of her then we sold her on at a huge profit to someone and she wouldn't know where mare had gone. Incidentally I dont sell horses on, still have elder daughters first pony after 19 years.

As for growing out of her well my daughter is very slim but quite tall at 5ft 7 and almost 16 not sure how much more she is going to grow. 

I have spoken to my daughter and she definitely wants to keep her. I offered to buy her something else, but she wants this mare more, she said that they just click........

So I am going to try this year, hope all goes to plan......not ideal really but going to get contact in writing regardless of how close we are.  

Thanks for all advice and supportive comments.
		
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I smell a big fat rat.

Whole thing seems very fishy to me. Hope it works out for but i doubt it will. Good luck.


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## Honey08 (4 December 2013)

I wouldn't trust them, sadly, whether you know them or not.  Their story changes every time you speak to them.  Money is their motivation - if anyone sells her on next year for more money it will be them.  I think that it is quite likely that this will happen, and if you're certain you're going to keep her, I think you need to make it very clear to your daughter that she may well lose this horse next year..

Personally at this point I think you're crazy to continue and would be better finding something else for your daughter.


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## Brochdoll (4 December 2013)

Charmel said:



			Will do...

And not going to tell my daughter until Christmas morning it will be a great present for her. She is so attached to her already.
		
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Only saw a wee bit of this yesterday so delighted to come back on and see its all worked out for you! Love it that you're keeping it for a Christmas surprise too!


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## HazyXmas (4 December 2013)

Brochdoll said:



			Only saw a wee bit of this yesterday so delighted to come back on and see its all worked out for you! Love it that you're keeping it for a Christmas surprise too!
		
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You've got a bit more reading to do............


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## abb123 (4 December 2013)

Agree with others. No way would I trust them. I would be willing to bet money that come spring she will want her back and will be then sold on for a handsome sum of money. 

At the moment you have an advantage in that you are willing to keep her over winter and they have no where for her.

I would still say accept cash now in full with full ownership transferred to you or she takes the horse back this weekend.


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## Brochdoll (4 December 2013)

HazyXmas said:



			You've got a bit more reading to do............
		
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Haha I know! I just got so excited that I had to post! Hopefully it will all work out. At least the story so far is a bit better than I thought at one stage


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## Bills (4 December 2013)

What a nightmare this has been OP, I hope it all works out for you and daughter in the end.


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## zigzag (4 December 2013)

Im sorry but I would be sending the mare back, unless they sell her to you now, why do they want to keep her for another year then sell her to you then, too fishy for me.


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## Caol Ila (4 December 2013)

How "horsey" is Dad?  I could see a non-horsey parent (I have such parents), with the best of intentions and trying to mediate between his kid and an old family friend, coming up with something like this but not being clued in to the whole horse world and the myriad of things which can go wrong.  They might not see all the pitfalls everyone on this thread sees


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## Marydoll (4 December 2013)

For me this would be a return then walk away job, you and your daughter are investing to much in this horse that can be taken away at any time, its the nature of a loan contract, and would be good money chasing bad if it goes pear shaped trying to enforce the contract, its not worth the hassle and greif imo, id return the mare at the weekend then start looking for something, its a buyers market and id tell them that


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## honetpot (4 December 2013)

I have two daughters and I can understand how your daughter will want to keep the horse you have, she's done all the work and now is just getting the benefits, why should she want to start all over again? If you have not already done so I think you have to do a whole worst case scenario.
 Her godfather like most men will want peace, if it comes to it he will side with the daughter, he has tried to create  compromise but doesn't realise that he is making a muddle. If at the end of the contract they do not agree to sell to you for what ever reason how will you and your daughter feel about the godfather? I think his daughter is just worried you will profit from the horse, whether its financially or by the fact your daughter is doing well with it, if she had any true feeling for it she would want it back now. I think you have to put your foot down with both girls and say that the loan has become untenable as the owner has created doubt, I you can not invest time and money in something with that shadow hanging over you and for your future relationships sake its best they have the horse back. I think the god fathers daughter sounds fickle, and I wouldn't want to go to the small claims court over a horse with a long standing friend, I would cut my losses.


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## southerncomfort (4 December 2013)

I have to agree with the others I'm afraid.

The girl's original reason for wanting the horse back was because she missed her, so is she going to miss her any less in a years time and be any more willing to sell to you then?  As far as I can see you are still in the position you were at in the beginning in that next year your loan of the horse will end and the girl could take the horse back.  This is very different to the 3 year loan that you originally agreed on.

Personally I wouldn't want this hanging over me for another year.


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## OldNag (4 December 2013)

Marydoll said:



			For me this would be a return then walk away job, you and your daughter are investing to much in this horse that can be taken away at any time, its the nature of a loan contract, and would be good money chasing bad if it goes pear shaped trying to enforce the contract, its not worth the hassle and greif imo, id return the mare at the weekend then start looking for something, its a buyers market and id tell them that
		
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^^^ This, I'm afraid.  Their story changes too often for my liking. If you don't have definite outcome now (ie buy now or return) then it's always going to be hanging over you and your daughter that they could try to take the horse back at any time and sell it (at a profit).  I've first hand experience of being in this situation and it's not good to be in. For your own peace of mind I think you need to sort it absolutely one way or the other.


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## Spring Feather (4 December 2013)

I'd pay the money now and have a contract with a buyback clause so that if you ever want to sell the horse, they have first right of refusal.  No way would I allow this uncertainty to drag on for another year.  But it takes all sorts I guess.


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## Clare85 (4 December 2013)

honetpot said:



			I have two daughters and I can understand how your daughter will want to keep the horse you have, she's done all the work and now is just getting the benefits, why should she want to start all over again? If you have not already done so I think you have to do a whole worst case scenario. Her godfather like most men will want peace, if it comes to it he will side with the daughter, he has tried to create  compromise but doesn't realise that he is making a muddle. If at the end of the contract they do not agree to sell to you for what ever reason how will you and your daughter feel about the godfather? I think his daughter is just worried you will profit from the horse, whether its financially or by the fact your daughter is doing well with it, if she had any true feeling for it she would want it back now. I think you have to put your foot down with both girls and say that the loan has become untenable as the owner has created doubt, I you can not invest time and money in something with that shadow hanging over you and for your future relationships sake its best they have the horse back. I think the god fathers daughter sounds fickle, and I wouldn't want to go to the small claims court over a horse with a long standing friend, I would cut my losses.
		
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^^^Totally agree with this. If you keep the horse for a further year, your daughter really will be very attached, and will be heartbroken if the owner takes her away. I would be dropping horse back to the girl unless she was willing to sell her now. She has changed her mind too many times and is not to be trusted imo. Sorry for your situation op, hope it resolves itself for you and your daughter.


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## Amymay (4 December 2013)

Spring Feather said:



			I'd pay the money now and have a contract with a buyback clause so that if you ever want to sell the horse, they have first right of refusal.  No way would I allow this uncertainty to drag on for another year.  But it takes all sorts I guess.
		
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Perfect solution.


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## Goldenstar (4 December 2013)

I assume as OP trusted the father enough to be her daughters  god father she trusts him in this.


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## Apercrumbie (4 December 2013)

Goldenstar said:



			I assume as OP trusted the father enough to be her daughters  god father she trusts him in this.
		
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Normally I would agree but he is naturally going to be biased towards his daughter - no bad thing under normal circumstances.  She probably wouldn't have much trouble persuading him in a year's time that she desperately wants the horse back and then persuade him to sell on.  I think the buy-back clause is the best solution all round but I imagine it will be hard to convince them.


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## Goldenstar (4 December 2013)

Apercrumbie said:



			Normally I would agree but he is naturally going to be biased towards his daughter - no bad thing under normal circumstances.  She probably wouldn't have much trouble persuading him in a year's time that she desperately wants the horse back and then persuade him to sell on.  I think the buy-back clause is the best solution all round but I imagine it will be hard to convince them.
		
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Who knows but OP is best placed to know.
I am just musing on what my father would have done if I behaved like that it would not have been pretty .


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## babymare (4 December 2013)

Goldenstar my dad regardless of age would have given me a good old fashioned smack but im a bit aged so grew up when you got a crack if naughty etc he prob would now even at my age lol


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## YasandCrystal (4 December 2013)

Spring Feather said:



			I'd pay the money now and have a contract with a buyback clause so that if you ever want to sell the horse, they have first right of refusal.  No way would I allow this uncertainty to drag on for another year.  But it takes all sorts I guess.
		
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^^ This


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## smellsofhorse (4 December 2013)

After the ups and downs if this story im glad you have some good news.

However I would not be happy with the suggested agreement.

It's made to sound like you have her on loan for another year, if then you want to buy, you can at a reduced price of £900.
But you know you want the horse, so why wait, you were willing to pay more.

Really its probably, so the young owner can at the end of the year, actually, i want this nicely schooled horse back.
What could you do if she did?

Id still tell then I either buy now of send horse back.


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## MadBlackLab (4 December 2013)

Is the daughter who owns the mare 18? Cause if so she can have ownership changed on passport to her name meaning she can do what she wants. I wouldn't trust her at all


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## Sugar_and_Spice (4 December 2013)

abb123 said:



			Agree with others. No way would I trust them. I would be willing to bet money that come spring she will want her back and will be then sold on for a handsome sum of money. 

At the moment you have an advantage in that you are willing to keep her over winter and they have no where for her.

I would still say accept cash now in full with full ownership transferred to you or she takes the horse back this weekend.
		
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This. 

There's no advantage for you in waiting a year. Even a written loan contract means next to nothing. You can't force someone to sell their horse to you.


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## HazyXmas (4 December 2013)

The amount that the Father says he is willing to take, ie £900 in a year's time just doesn't make any sense.

 You are willing to pay £1600 now for the mare that they (i think i read) paid £1400 for?

 She could possibly be worth £2500-£3000 maybe more, at the end of next summer if she continues to go well, or she may have an injury & be worth almost nothing.

£900 seems an odd figure to have plucked from the air, more understandable if they'd said £1400, to recover what they'd paid. I think that you are being spun a line & i, like other's have said, would be returning the mare this weekend.

I've been in a similar situation when my daughter was 14, we'd had loan mare for 3 & a half years, owner's hadn't been to see it once in all that time. We'd done ALL the work, the mare had been out in a field doing nothing for 2 years before she came to us & was very quirky. They decided that now she was on all the PC teams, they wanted to sell her to us for £4000 (think mare was 14 at this point) I said no & she went back to them & is still turned out in a field doing nothing 3 years later. We were very sad to see her go but other lovely horses & ponies have come along  There are lots out there in dire need of a great home like yours.


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## Zero00000 (4 December 2013)

Sounds to me like dads in on Daughters plan for you to keep until summer, easiest way to get you on side make you believe you are getting her cheap and they bail out come summer leaving you in the same predicament as you would have been.

Cash now, or take the horse back.


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## Charmel (18 December 2013)

Loan Crisis Update.....

Well the horse is going back. Transport and stable all arranged for 2nd January. Shame but the only way forward I think. A friend has given me a failed racehorse aged 5 to try. Very sweet horse that we used to look after before he went into training. Hopefully will work out. THis time all arranged and agreed. Free of Charge Horse if wanted all ownership transfered to my daughter....

I would post a pic but dont know how!

He is bay with tiny white star 16 hands and so far so good quiet with a nice attitude.


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## Zero00000 (18 December 2013)

Sorry it didn't work out with the loan,
But to save your daughters feeling, I think it was for the best.

Good luck with the new horse, I hope she enjoys him just as much.


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## Spring Feather (18 December 2013)

Onwards and upwards! Good luck with the new one


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## ridefast (18 December 2013)

Shame it didn't work out, but new horse sounds nice


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## Honey08 (18 December 2013)

Yes good luck with the new horse.  When you say a friend has given you the horse to try, would you be trying it with a view to buying it?  Don't let daughter become someone who schools on people's horses for free.  Let her work on something of her own.  

What made you change your mind re the other one, if you don't mind me asking.


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## Goldenstar (18 December 2013)

Good luck with the next one .
You did your very best .
I hope your daughter enjoys the TB I love them.


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## Amymay (18 December 2013)

Good luck with the new horse.


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## Flummoxed (18 December 2013)

I've been hoping for an update. Sorry it didn't work out but I think this was the right decision. Good luck with the new one!


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## SatansLittleHelper (18 December 2013)

Well done and good luck with the new horse x


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## babymare (18 December 2013)

Another saying good luck with new horse


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## Clare85 (18 December 2013)

Shame about the other horse op, but a decision needed to be made one way or the other - fwiw I think you have made the right one. Wishing your daughter all the best with the new horse, I'm sure they will build a great partnership


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## Vodkagirly (18 December 2013)

Shame it didn't work out, better now than later though. Good luck with the new one.


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## Charmel (19 December 2013)

Holly08 said:



			Yes good luck with the new horse.  When you say a friend has given you the horse to try, would you be trying it with a view to buying it?  Don't let daughter become someone who schools on people's horses for free.  Let her work on something of her own.  

What made you change your mind re the other one, if you don't mind me asking.
		
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The friend horse has just returned from JonJo O'Neils racing yard has never raced as not quick enough (too laid back I think). The horse was bred by my friend wife who died. He has offered him to me for a nominal £1 (and change of ownership on passport) on the condition that if we ever want rid of him then he goes bcak to my friend as he feels he owes it to his wife to ensure that the last two horses she bred are well looked after. He has no real interest in horses at all other than he pays for everything without any quibble and did want this one to jump race as really well bred. We have helped take care of his two horses on and off for a long time now. So this horse will be totally my daughters..... We will try him first though...took him out tuesday over nearby across country course just showing him the smaller fences. Didn't look at anything really brave and bold. Easy to stop too. Got some flat lessons booked and gonna take him to a small local show jumping comp in the next couple of weeks, just do a clear round course....

With regard to the other horse. The owner put all sorts of comments on facebook, saying she was having the mare back in the summer and that she would be really going well by then. Stuff about the amount of money she would make on her. My daughter saw these comments as did many of my friends. I decided that it was never going to work regardless what was agreed and the fear of her being able to take her anytime would alway be there.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (19 December 2013)

Charmel said:



			T
With regard to the other horse. The owner put all sorts of comments on facebook, saying she was having the mare back in the summer and that she would be really going well by then. Stuff about the amount of money she would make on her. My daughter saw these comments as did many of my friends. I decided that it was never going to work regardless what was agreed and the fear of her being able to take her anytime would alway be there.
		
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It's amazing what people will do, they think they are being "entrepreneurial", its not, its taking advantage of someone's good nature, in business term it is fraud!


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## dianchi (19 December 2013)

Very tough decision OP but well done for preserving as much as you could!

Love a TB! cant wait for pics!


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## Adopter (19 December 2013)

Just sending good luck vibes, TBsounds exciting prospect and knowing its background and what it has done so far is a real help for your daughter in planning its development.


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## Charmel (19 December 2013)

dianchi said:



			Very tough decision OP but well done for preserving as much as you could!

Love a TB! cant wait for pics!
		
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how do i put pics on?


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## dianchi (19 December 2013)

You need to upload them to Photobucket and then use the share links from the pic. there used to be a thread on how to do it.........................
(wanders off to try and locate)


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## honetpot (19 December 2013)

I am happy and sad for you. Sad that your daughter will never reap the full rewards of her hard work  and she has learned about the bad side of human nature so early on. Really happy she has a blank sheet that she can put all her energies into so and I hope  the partnership is a brilliant success, Best of luck for 2014!


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## Maesfen (19 December 2013)

So pleased you have a final decision and your daughter has a new prospect (which sounds very exciting)  I hope she has a lot of fun.

Re pic's, open another tab/window beside this one, make a photobucket account (it's free) then upload the pics from your computer (having uploaded from camera or phone to that first).  You'll see a circle type thing in the top right of each pic you've uploaded, click on that and it gives you options, you need LINKS, then you need the IMG one,click and copy that link then paste it into your post on here, do that for all the pics you want to show on here.  Remember to hit the return key after posting each link to start a new line otherwise you will make a very wide screen to take them all up (and everyone will be cross that you're making them scroll across to see them all the time, lol!)  It sounds complicated but it's easy once you've done it


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## Exploding Chestnuts (19 December 2013)

It's not all bad news about the other horse, every bit of experience of bringing horses on is worth a lot over a lifetime with horses.


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## Charmel (19 December 2013)

Thank you so much for all your good luck and best wishes. Hopefully everything goes to plan will add pics when can....


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## PleaseVenus (19 December 2013)

Horrible girl. Sorry you've been messed around, I hope your daughter has gained from the experience of it anyway. At least you wont have to deal with someone so unreliable and untrustworthy anymore. I bet the girl wont make any money from it and will soon regret it. 

Good luck with the new horse


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## Charmel (6 January 2014)

QUICK UPDATE Well the Loan horse is finally going back this week. There has been lots of excuses why she couldn't have her straight away but all arranged now. Such a shame though. The new horse is a absolute marvel 5th week out of race training been to a show jumping event and went brilliantly. Really busy venue over 50 each class. He jumped clear but not very quick doesn't get cantering and jumping together yet lots of flatwork required. He hacked out alone and didn't protest even when hie stable buddies rode past him in opposite direction going home. Who would of thought he would be going so well! Daughter is still gutted over the mare but this TB is definitely softening the blow. The friend owner of TB has signed him over to us for a fee of £1 so make us the legal owners.


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## Gingerwitch (6 January 2014)

Charmel said:



			QUICK UPDATE Well the Loan horse is finally going back this week. There has been lots of excuses why she couldn't have her straight away but all arranged now. Such a shame though. The new horse is a absolute marvel 5th week out of race training been to a show jumping event and went brilliantly. Really busy venue over 50 each class. He jumped clear but not very quick doesn't get cantering and jumping together yet lots of flatwork required. He hacked out alone and didn't protest even when hie stable buddies rode past him in opposite direction going home. Who would of thought he would be going so well! Daughter is still gutted over the mare but this TB is definitely softening the blow. The friend owner of TB has signed him over to us for a fee of £1 so make us the legal owners.
		
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So pleased for you  and have you charged for full livery on the other one ??


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## Roasted Chestnuts (6 January 2014)

Charmel said:



			QUICK UPDATE Well the Loan horse is finally going back this week. There has been lots of excuses why she couldn't have her straight away but all arranged now. Such a shame though. The new horse is a absolute marvel 5th week out of race training been to a show jumping event and went brilliantly. Really busy venue over 50 each class. He jumped clear but not very quick doesn't get cantering and jumping together yet lots of flatwork required. He hacked out alone and didn't protest even when hie stable buddies rode past him in opposite direction going home. Who would of thought he would be going so well! Daughter is still gutted over the mare but this TB is definitely softening the blow. The friend owner of TB has signed him over to us for a fee of £1 so make us the legal owners.
		
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Congrats on how well your daughter is getting on with her new horse  and hood for you on standing your ground and sending the mare back, shame for her but it would be a bigger blow to have her dole sneakily from under you.


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## Goldenstar (6 January 2014)

Glad the new TB is going well, I am sorry for the mare but you have no choice .
Onwards and upwards .


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## MadBlackLab (6 January 2014)

Charmel said:



			QUICK UPDATE Well the Loan horse is finally going back this week. There has been lots of excuses why she couldn't have her straight away but all arranged now. Such a shame though. The new horse is a absolute marvel 5th week out of race training been to a show jumping event and went brilliantly. Really busy venue over 50 each class. He jumped clear but not very quick doesn't get cantering and jumping together yet lots of flatwork required. He hacked out alone and didn't protest even when hie stable buddies rode past him in opposite direction going home. Who would of thought he would be going so well! Daughter is still gutted over the mare but this TB is definitely softening the blow. The friend owner of TB has signed him over to us for a fee of £1 so make us the legal owners.
		
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so pleased and your TB sounds like a gem


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## Charmel (6 January 2014)

Gingerwitch said:



			So pleased for you  and have you charged for full livery on the other one ??
		
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No I didn't. Would be pointless really as the kids got no money... My daughter is continuing to ride her till the day she goes. Her choice, she said its not fair on the horse to stop working her. I have explained that when she goes back she will be rugged turned out and rarely ridden but my daughter said that she will be returned in peak condition. However that should be interesting for her owner as this mare is the type that the fitter she is the more the work is important. My daughter had to give her two days off due to christmas and the weather and when she got on her next she tried to buck and spin with her. my daughter sat quietly and pushed her forward through it, but the owner probably would have got off and left it a few weeks before getting back on. 
Our new boy had the same two days off and wasnt phased by it at all.


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## babymare (6 January 2014)

Made up for to that your new boy is doing so well. on wards and upwards. X


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## Clare85 (6 January 2014)

I'm so glad your new boy is going so well, he sounds like a star. And I must say, you must be very proud of your daughter for having such a mature attitude to sending the mare back. There would be plenty of kids who would just not bother once the new horse arrived. She will have learnt a valuable lesson from this horrible situation which will stand her in such good stead. Wishing you a wonderful 2014 with the TB  All's well that ends well.


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## ridefast (6 January 2014)

Charmel said:



			No I didn't. Would be pointless really as the kids got no money... My daughter is continuing to ride her till the day she goes. Her choice, she said its not fair on the horse to stop working her. I have explained that when she goes back she will be rugged turned out and rarely ridden but my daughter said that she will be returned in peak condition. However that should be interesting for her owner as this mare is the type that the fitter she is the more the work is important. My daughter had to give her two days off due to christmas and the weather and when she got on her next she tried to buck and spin with her. my daughter sat quietly and pushed her forward through it, but the owner probably would have got off and left it a few weeks before getting back on. 
Our new boy had the same two days off and wasnt phased by it at all.
		
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Your daughter sounds like she has the attitude of a true professional, I wish her luck with the new horse


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## Adopter (6 January 2014)

Good to read that new TB is showing promise and he is yours.  Very sad about the loan horse, but there was nothing else you could do.

Good luck with your new horse.


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