# Training aids for more consistent contact and nicer outline?!?!



## GreenEyedMonster (6 March 2014)

Recommended training aids to achieve a rounder outline, consistent contact and better engagement of hindlegs?

Tried spurs: made things worse
Martingale: did very little and can't be used for dressage

Ruled out any ill fitting tack, back issues or teeth problems.

Nothing too harsh but must do the job?


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## webble (6 March 2014)

Lots of lessons to make sure you are riding correctly and lots of work to to build the muscles to allow the horse to be able to be in an outline. Stretches and in hand work to make sure your horse in nice and flexible and bendy


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## Burnttoast (6 March 2014)

The only aid that will do all of the above is a good rider.


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## GreenEyedMonster (6 March 2014)

Thank you for replying.
Until recently I had been having weekly lessons on the flat to achieve the heel hip shoulder line and to help keep my leg on.
For various reasons I could not take the aforementioned horse so was not able to progress with him, I must be doing something right as the muscles have built up a lot in his neck into a lovely curve even when he is at rest and he has a nice topline usually.
Surely one of the available training aids might help?


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## Dizzydancer (6 March 2014)

i have been riding my ex racer in an Ann rees balancing rein. i have been using it with instructors help as he tended to throw everything away in upward transitions and after months of working with nothing we gave this a go and its done wonders. however it won't engage back end anymore, that's all about riding.

i began using every time i schooled for few months and now only use once- twice a week he has had it on since October. i do however take it off one week a moth to assess how he is doing.


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## GreenEyedMonster (6 March 2014)

Dizzydancer said:



			i have been riding my ex racer in an Ann rees balancing rein. i have been using it with instructors help as he tended to throw everything away in upward transitions and after months of working with nothing we gave this a go and its done wonders. however it won't engage back end anymore, that's all about riding.

i began using every time i schooled for few months and now only use once- twice a week he has had it on since October. i do however take it off one week a moth to assess how he is doing.
		
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Thank you for replying
That sounds like one to try, I'll go and google!


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## windand rain (6 March 2014)

I have in the past used an Abbott Davis balancing rein but it is certainly no substitute for correct riding and most gadgets unless used properly with the correct riding are worse than useless and are often quite damaging So I would agree with those that say more schooling and lessons I am afraid


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## GreenEyedMonster (6 March 2014)

Thank you for replying
I understand what you mean, I am on a yard where my horse is on full livery and his groom is very experienced so on hand to tell me if it isn't working. 
I've been trying for two years to get him to settle but if he has a patch of not being ridden it all goes out the window. I want to try an artificial aid to help and of course it won't be a permanent method, I was thinking to try it for 6 weeks maximum and thoroughly ask and research methods of correct use and fitting.


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## Cortez (6 March 2014)

Unfortunately there isn't a gadget that does the job of proper riding; if there was we'd all be Carl Hester and out horses would all be called something like "Valegro". Sorry.


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## atlantis (6 March 2014)

Lessons from a good instructor!!!

Or read this thread

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?649110-WOW-What-great-advice-A-must-read-I-feel!&highlight=Balancing


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## GreenEyedMonster (6 March 2014)

atlantis said:



			Lessons from a good instructor!!!

Or read this thread

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/foru...dvice-A-must-read-I-feel!&highlight=Balancing

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Thank you for replying.
I read the article and it all seemed to make sense but unfortunately is just repeating my issue because my horse just becomes unrideable when he gets tense as he refuses to do anything sensible such as lots of transitions or leg yield!


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## GreenEyedMonster (6 March 2014)

Thank you all for the suggestions and answers.
I have come to three options now:
1. Harry Dabbs dragonfly reins (supposed to aid balance)
2. Draw reins (as I can alter their "strength" as I please)
3. Just not bother, as many of you said it just takes a good rider and if that's the case I must not be one of them after three years of trying! Haha!


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## atlantis (6 March 2014)

Even in walk? I started off with walk halt transitions and shorter steps in walk. 

I'm a Physio and when teaching exercises to people I've got to start with something easy enough. So if I have to go back to basics and what seem like ridiculously easy exercises then so be it. Same with training horses. 

If he's that tense I'm not sure how a training aid will help as its just masking the symptoms not treating the cause ie the horse is unbalanced. I applied the advice in that threat to my share horse. She is now seeking a contact and we no longer fight and leave the arena at speed!!! 

And are you balanced. Read Sally swift centred riding. Great book that's really helped me!! We've all been trying for years. And years and years lol. I really am in the same boat as you, but I've recently (since Christmas) realised there us no quick fix. Read this thread of mine especially mike007's response. It hit a raw nerve, but made me rethink!!! 

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?650804-An-unbiased-opinion


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## GreenEyedMonster (6 March 2014)

atlantis said:



			Even in walk? I started off with walk halt transitions and shorter steps in walk. 

I'm a Physio and when teaching exercises to people I've got to start with something easy enough. So if I have to go back to basics and what seem like ridiculously easy exercises then so be it. Same with training horses. 

If he's that tense I'm not sure how a training aid will help as its just masking the symptoms not treating the cause ie the horse is unbalanced. I applied the advice in that threat to my share horse. She is now seeking a contact and we no longer fight and leave the arena at speed!!! 

And are you balanced. Read Sally swift centred riding. Great book that's really helped me!! We've all been trying for years. And years and years lol. I really am in the same boat as you, but I've recently (since Christmas) realised there us no quick fix. Read this thread of mine especially mike007's response. It hit a raw nerve, but made me rethink!!! 

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?650804-An-unbiased-opinion

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Think you very much, I'll see about getting that book.
Sorry I didn't make myself very clear, he is an angel in walk! And strangely at shows is very very good, he will behave just the way I want him to away from home but he knows he doesn't necessarily have a duty to perform at home so fannies about, it s after we've done a couple of minutes trot that he starts to play up, he anticipates cantering though we have done very little of it in the last few months! If we do anything such as leg yield it all becomes too interesting and he wants to canter or be silly. I'll try the lateral work to improve his balance as before we did very little of it and maybe this summer I can afford a lesson or two!
Thank you again, very good advice!


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## paulineh (6 March 2014)

GreenEyedMonster   You ask about an aid to help you and everyone has said lessons. 

The only aid I would use is an Equiami http://www.equiami.com/  I would not use draw reins as you are forcing a horse into an outline..


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## GreenEyedMonster (6 March 2014)

paulineh said:



			GreenEyedMonster   You ask about an aid to help you and everyone has said lessons. 

The only aid I would use is an Equiami http://www.equiami.com/  I would not use draw reins as you are forcing a horse into an outline..
		
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Like I said, I can't afford regular lessons and do not have the time until the summer, I agree that lessons would be he most beneficial but I just don't have the money!
I am taking everyone's opinions into consideration before I buy anything, but it's hard to rely solely on natural aids when I am an amateur without mirrors or someone on the ground to watch me.


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## atlantis (6 March 2014)

We are soooo in the same boat. Can you rig up a video at all. (I use my iPhone balanced on the school fence lol). 

Your horse sounds like my mare. I found this last few weeks that if I give her regular breaks she has a good stretch at the buckle end and then I can do a bit more again, still mainly walk and trot. She gets s break every 6 or 7 mins (from Sylvia Loch) I come back to walk if she gets unsettled and only trot if she's balanced. If she starts to speed up and won't come back with a half halt then its back to walk and rebalance. That's working well and she is staying balanced at trot for longer and we've even tried some canter (&#128561 for a half circle at a time and this last session she's not ranked off in canter expecting to go hunting or jump lol!!! Even started to add a few lateral steps, leg yeild on a circle mainly, in trot too without her shooting off!!! 

Slowly slowly with no lessons as no money and a wonky video from the floor lol.


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## GreenEyedMonster (6 March 2014)

atlantis said:



			We are soooo in the same boat. Can you rig up a video at all. (I use my iPhone balanced on the school fence lol). 

Your horse sounds like my mare. I found this last few weeks that if I give her regular breaks she has a good stretch at the buckle end and then I can do a bit more again, still mainly walk and trot. She gets s break every 6 or 7 mins (from Sylvia Loch) I come back to walk if she gets unsettled and only trot if she's balanced. If she starts to speed up and won't come back with a half halt then its back to walk and rebalance. That's working well and she is staying balanced at trot for longer and we've even tried some canter (&#55357;&#56881 for a half circle at a time and this last session she's not ranked off in canter expecting to go hunting or jump lol!!! Even started to add a few lateral steps, leg yeild on a circle mainly, in trot too without her shooting off!!! 

Slowly slowly with no lessons as no money and a wonky video from the floor lol.
		
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Yes they do sound alike! He loves to stretch, I'm sure we'd score some good marks for our FWLR if we ever get round to doing a test, he'd have his nose to the ground if I let him!
Which makes it hard for people to understand why he is so tense the rest of the time!

Tried with the old iPhone but it was too embarrassing when the yard owner came into the school to ride with a small crowd to watch her and I looked like a little kid doing a youtube video!


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## paulineh (6 March 2014)

GreenEyedMonster said:



			Like I said, I can't afford regular lessons and do not have the time until the summer, I agree that lessons would be he most beneficial but I just don't have the money!
I am taking everyone's opinions into consideration before I buy anything, but it's hard to rely solely on natural aids when I am an amateur without mirrors or someone on the ground to watch me.
		
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What I meant when I said everyone was saying lessons was is that the way they think it should go. I use both the lunging and the ridden Equiami and find it is very uasful. Other aids do not give the horse the give and take that you need to get a nice outline. 

When in the school I use a lot of change of direction, half halts , circles and serpentines.These all keep the horse concentrating


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## Cortez (6 March 2014)

GreenEyedMonster said:



			Thank you all for the suggestions and answers.
I have come to three options now:
1. Harry Dabbs dragonfly reins (supposed to aid balance)
2. Draw reins (as I can alter their "strength" as I please)
3. Just not bother, as many of you said it just takes a good rider and if that's the case I must not be one of them after three years of trying! Haha!
		
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Erm, three years is not actually very long at all.......I've been at it nearly 50 and still learn something every time I ride. You need an instructor, patience, knowledge. Doesn't sound like you have any of these..............


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## GreenEyedMonster (6 March 2014)

I had already mentioned my limited funds for lessons at this time of year in other comments, I do not have the time to commit to regular lessons at the moment either. I have been patient, and there is nothing wrong with trying new techniques and I am learning, which is contributing to my knowledge, you don't know everything straight away or I would never have started the thread.
If you aren't willing to say anything friendly then I'd appreciate it if you'd leave the thread, I was asking for advice from mature and understanding people, as you do not seem to fit this category then please don't reply to the question.


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## nikicb (6 March 2014)

GreenEyedMonster said:



			I had already mentioned my limited funds for lessons at this time of year in other comments, I do not have the time to commit to regular lessons at the moment either. I have been patient, and there is nothing wrong with trying new techniques and I am learning, which is contributing to my knowledge, you don't know everything straight away or I would never have started the thread.
If you aren't willing to say anything friendly then I'd appreciate it if you'd leave the thread, I was asking for advice from mature and understanding people, as you do not seem to fit this category then please don't reply to the question.
		
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I am sorry, but if you don't have time to commit then perhaps owning a horse isn't the right thing for you at the moment.  By all means go ahead and ride, but you and your horse will only progress together when you can invest time, energy and most likely money in the form of instruction.  There is no magic short cut to having a horse in the 'correct' outline.  I'd like to be friendly, but it takes two to tango.  It would however be interesting to see a photo of you on your horse so we could have a greater appreciation of your issues.


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## GreenEyedMonster (6 March 2014)

nikicb said:



			I am sorry, but if you don't have time to commit then perhaps owning a horse isn't the right thing for you at the moment.  By all means go ahead and ride, but you and your horse will only progress together when you can invest time, energy and most likely money in the form of instruction.  There is no magic short cut to having a horse in the 'correct' outline.  I'd like to be friendly, but it takes two to tango.  It would however be interesting to see a photo of you on your horse so we could have a greater appreciation of your issues.  

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No one has to invest money in lessons to own a horse, nor should me asking for advice on artificial aids be and excuse not to own him.
I am at school from 8:20am - 6pm during the week and work on Saturdays, my GCSEs are in 9 weeks, so this lack of time is only temporary so I would appreciate it if people would be more understanding?
He is well cared for and happy and healthy, so my lack of time is only an issue regards the extent of training I have...
I will try and get a picture up...


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## JFTDWS (6 March 2014)

GreenEyedMonster said:



			No one has to invest money in lessons to own a horse, nor should me asking for advice on artificial aids be and excuse not to own him.
I am at school from 8:20am - 6pm during the week and work on Saturdays, my GCSEs are in 9 weeks, so this lack of time is only temporary so I would appreciate it if people would be more understanding?
He is well cared for and happy and healthy, so my lack of time is only an issue regards the extent of training I have...
		
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I'm confused as to how you have time to ride and play about with gadgets, but not to have a lesson...

It isn't a question of people being more understanding - it is a question of you listening to the advice you have been given which is almost unanimous.  Gadgets do not magically make horses work correctly, well trained riders who invest time and effort in their education do.


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## Mince Pie (6 March 2014)

JFTD said:



			I'm confused as to how you have time to ride and play about with gadgets, but not to have a lesson...

It isn't a question of people being more understanding - it is a question of you listening to the advice you have been given which is almost unanimous.  Gadgets do not magically make horses work correctly, well trained riders who invest time and effort in their education do.
		
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If you read her posts a little more carefully then you will see that it is the funds she is missing for lessons, not time. It's all very well and good for us as adults to be able to pay for lessons, but OP is 16 so whilst she has a Saturday job presumably she is also relying on her parents somewhat.


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## GreenEyedMonster (6 March 2014)

JFTD said:



			I'm confused as to how you have time to ride and play about with gadgets, but not to have a lesson...

It isn't a question of people being more understanding - it is a question of you listening to the advice you have been given which is almost unanimous.  Gadgets do not magically make horses work correctly, well trained riders who invest time and effort in their education do.
		
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The time I do spend is spent trying to iron out problems that keep reoccurring after they seem to have gone away, lessons would cost money and involve me driving to their homes/yards because of where I live.
I know it is confusing but if you were in my situation you would understand  it isn't going to take long to know if he doesn't like any gadgets I try and if he doesn't like them I will take them off, simple as. I just wanted to know what people might recommend should I try something...
I'm not planning on trying every possible aid there is, nor do I plan on playing about with them, he'll either take to it or he won't, I'm not going to force him am I?


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## nikicb (6 March 2014)

GreenEyedMonster said:



			No one has to invest money in lessons to own a horse, nor should me asking for advice on artificial aids be and excuse not to own him.
I am at school from 8:20am - 6pm during the week and work on Saturdays, my GCSEs are in 9 weeks, so this lack of time is only temporary so I would appreciate it if people would be more understanding?
He is well cared for and happy and healthy, so my lack of time is only an issue regards the extent of training I have...
I will try and get a picture up...
		
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So just enjoy him as he is at the moment.  I completely understand about the pressure of GCSEs - my older son did them last year.  You need time time to relax with your horse so just hack out and do fun things.  Then when you are ready get some lessons and work on how he is going.


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## Auslander (6 March 2014)

GreenEyedMonster said:



			No one has to invest money in lessons to own a horse, nor should me asking for advice on artificial aids be and excuse not to own him.
I am at school from 8:20am - 6pm during the week and work on Saturdays, my GCSEs are in 9 weeks, so this lack of time is only temporary so I would appreciate it if people would be more understanding?
He is well cared for and happy and healthy, so my lack of time is only an issue regards the extent of training I have...
		
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I think it would be in the best interests of both you and the horse to give him a break from schooling until you've finished your exams, and can devote some time and thought into working him correctly. Artificial aids will do nothing but force your horse into a false outline. Some have their uses, but only in very experienced hands, to address specific training issues. Your issue is not a training one, but a lack of experience. That will come, and it will come faster if you don't fall into the trap of using gadgets as a short cut. You are at the stage where you think you are an experienced rider, but you will look back on this period when you have a few more years under your belt, and realise how little you know. It sounds to me like your horse isn't particularly educated, and you are not yet skilled enough to improve a horse. It's a "blind leading the blind" scenario, and this won't improve until you are in a position to get some help from an instructor. The best thing you could do is to take some lessons on a schoolmaster, to give you an idea of what it should feel like. Then you will understand the difference between working a horse correctly, and using gadgets to create a false impression of correctness.

On another note - I understand that you are young, but you would do well to remember your manners when speaking to adults. One person you have been rude to on this thread is an extremely well regarded trainer, who could probably help you immensely if you were gracious enough to accept politely the advice she gave. I have a son the same age as you, so I understand the teenage mind, but to be frank, if my son spoke to adults the way you have on here, he would be in serious trouble.


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## JFTDWS (6 March 2014)

Broke_But_Happy said:



			If you read her posts a little more carefully then you will see that it is the funds she is missing for lessons, not time. It's all very well and good for us as adults to be able to pay for lessons, but OP is 16 so whilst she has a Saturday job presumably she is also relying on her parents somewhat.
		
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If you read her posts you would have observed repeated references to time as well as funds.  Lessons can be saved for out of the money the OP need not waste on gadgets. (a couple of gadgets = 1 lesson round here)


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## Mince Pie (6 March 2014)

JFTD said:



			If you read her posts you would have observed repeated references to time as well as funds.  Lessons can be saved for out of the money the OP need not waste on gadgets. (a couple of gadgets = 1 lesson round here)
		
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Boxing to another yard is not like having a 1/2 hour - hour lesson though is it? Hence the time constraints


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## MadJ (6 March 2014)

GreenEyedMonster said:



			I read the article and it all seemed to make sense but unfortunately is just repeating my issue because my horse just becomes unrideable when he gets tense as he refuses to do anything sensible such as lots of transitions or leg yield!
		
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This sentence to me doesn't sound like a horse that needs a training aid. Training aid + tense horse = tense horse in a training aid. Of course it's hard to make suggestions without seeing the problem.
I'd suggest you look at ways of getting your horse to relax when he gets uptight. This is dependent on the horse. One of my horses responds to being given something easier to think about and kept working, the other likes to take 5 and chill on a long rein before starting where we left off.
Is there anything in particular your horse gets tense about?


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## JFTDWS (6 March 2014)

Broke_But_Happy said:



			Boxing to another yard is not like having a 1/2 hour - hour lesson though is it? Hence the time constraints 

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Which the OP mentioned after my previous post (and yours for that matter).  Though if the OP is on a full livery yard, I am surprised there are no instructors available to come to her place.  Fwiw, I agree that the OP would be better off abandoning schooling until a later point when she can commit time and money to doing it properly.

However, I am bored now so whatever :rolleyes3:


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## Pinkvboots (6 March 2014)

Cortez said:



			Unfortunately there isn't a gadget that does the job of proper riding; if there was we'd all be Carl Hester and out horses would all be called something like "Valegro". Sorry.
		
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I also agree with this get a good instructor a horse is only as good as its rider I am afraid.


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## Mince Pie (7 March 2014)

JFTD said:



			However, I am bored now so whatever :rolleyes3:
		
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Bye then...


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## Pigeon (7 March 2014)

Could you get a video of you (or anyone really) riding him? Do you know anyone who is experienced at riding dressage who could have a sit on him for you? 

Just remember that the contact should be light, and if it's not happening, you probably need more leg! There are so many people who seem convinced that you get an outline by holding the horse's head down/sawing at the bit, I know it's tempting to resort to that and it's so common that I'm not surprised people see it as normal. 

I've had a really tough but rewarding time, trying to convert a quirky ex racehorse to a dressage horse, with a very limited budget and no lessons. We are getting there. Slowly. The things that have helped me are reading as much as I possibly can, anything vaguely dressage related, watching and assessing hours and hours and hours of people riding - and not necessarily Carl, but anyone who gets a good tune out of a horse, even at prelim. And lastly, video-ing myself and watching it back. I was shocked at how much my hands moved - how was horse supposed to keep a consistent contact when it wasn't consistent on my end?! Things like that were a breakthrough for me.


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## shampain (7 March 2014)

Pigeon said:



			Could you get a video of you (or anyone really) riding him? Do you know anyone who is experienced at riding dressage who could have a sit on him for you? 

Just remember that the contact should be light, and if it's not happening, you probably need more leg! There are so many people who seem convinced that you get an outline by holding the horse's head down/sawing at the bit, I know it's tempting to resort to that and it's so common that I'm not surprised people see it as normal. 

I've had a really tough but rewarding time, trying to convert a quirky ex racehorse to a dressage horse, with a very limited budget and no lessons. We are getting there. Slowly. The things that have helped me are reading as much as I possibly can, anything vaguely dressage related, watching and assessing hours and hours and hours of people riding - and not necessarily Carl, but anyone who gets a good tune out of a horse, even at prelim. And lastly, video-ing myself and watching it back. I was shocked at how much my hands moved - how was horse supposed to keep a consistent contact when it wasn't consistent on my end?! Things like that were a breakthrough for me.
		
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I second the idea of taking a video if possible, it's far easier to judge by sight than going off of description only. 

However, I would say that with regards to the above point of the contact being 'light', this depends entirely on how the horse is moving. If the horse is in self carriage, hindquarters engaged and steady into the contact then yes, the contact should be light; however, it's perfectly possible for a horse to be trundling along on the forehand, hollow and not tracking up but to still be light into the contact if numerous elements aren't in place. (I'm 100% certain that Pigeon was referring to the former of these examples; I just wanted to clarify it for the sake of OP).

As with the majority of people in this thread, I'd strongly advise against using gadgets. It is _not_ just about the head, but about impulsion, activity and and horse that is forward thinking and ready to work with you. Currently, it sounds as if your horse is behind the leg as even though he may go forward/fast, he's not listening to your aids and would prefer to run into canter rather than work in trot properly (please correct me if I have the wrong end of the stick, here). 
If this is the case, what you really need to focus on is _forwards_. Forget about the head, and just have the horse moving forwards and electric away from your leg; if he runs, okay, nevermind. You don't want to try to compress the natural energy that he offers, rather channel it into movements (even simple figures such as circles, serpentines, etcetera), so that you can maintain the forward motion and encourage him to relax into a rhythm. Only once the horse is truly forward, in balance and thus in rhythm can you even begin to think about 'outline'. And then it is by working into a consistent contact (no fussing with the hands; no sponging on the bit, nada).This is especially important with a horse that is prone to becoming tense, as compressing everything and forcing the head down will only cause problems to escalate. 

On a final note, if you truly don't have time for lessons, I'd recommend watching this string of videos:
http://www.usefnetwork.com/featured/2014GMHTS/
Whilst the style of riding exhibited by the riders in the sessions might be different, the way in which the trainer teaches is still absolutely relevant and I have to say that I really like his style.


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## Sags_Deer (7 March 2014)

Draw reins work of the devil. how experienced is your instructor what level has she trained at? 
Debbie lush has produced amazing books very easy to understand it may help you with your balance and seat aids try less leg if you have a sharp horse use your leg only when you need it , your horse anticipates canter work with that don't shy away. How old is your horse, breed, history of your horse and you as a rider what level have you ridden to.


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## webble (7 March 2014)

nikicb said:



			I am sorry, but if you don't have time to commit then perhaps owning a horse isn't the right thing for you at the moment.  By all means go ahead and ride, but you and your horse will only progress together when you can invest time, energy and most likely money in the form of instruction.  There is no magic short cut to having a horse in the 'correct' outline.  I'd like to be friendly, but it takes two to tango.  It would however be interesting to see a photo of you on your horse so we could have a greater appreciation of your issues.  

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Cant agree with this more, it takes time patience and prctice to produce muscle understanding and flexibility

I also agree with the video idea. What it feels like you are doing and what you are actually doing can be very different. 

My mare can be very tense and her tenseness used to often be followed by an explosion! Hard as it was to do the way through this was to keep my leg on and be light with my hands when all my instincts said leg off and short reins. If yu are struggling to keep his attention then small circles help me to get it back when things like a bike a bird etc are more interesting


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## Goldenstar (7 March 2014)

Defiantly don't try draw reins you must be trained to use them and as you say you don't have time for lessons.
Although I have four horses having a merry time in snaffles and cavesson nosebands I am not a purist and will use a gadget at times if I feel it might help.
However I don't think from your description a gadget is the answer for you unless a good trainer recommends one and shows you how it acts and how to use it in a structured training programme .


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## showpony (7 March 2014)

Hi OP..

Gagets really need to be used under supervision, ive used Draw Reins & a a De Gogue in the past but only with my instructor... If you are tight on time & funds Id just hack & enjoy.. You say that you do mainly trot work? Horse may be tense if you are constantly fighting for a contact and not letting him burn off energy.


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## rhino (7 March 2014)

GreenEyedMonster said:



			The time I do spend is spent trying to iron out problems that keep reoccurring after they seem to have gone away, lessons would cost money and involve me driving to their homes/yards because of where I live.


I'm not planning on trying every possible aid there is, nor do I plan on playing about with them, he'll either take to it or he won't, I'm not going to force him am I?
		
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I'll let you into a little secret...












With horses, there are no quick fixes, no magic gadgets. The experienced people on here are all telling you that the process of schooling a horse takes time, patience, understanding and help! It's good that you're asking for help but you can't blame people for having the opinion that you're asking the wrong question in the first place.

If you're always having to return to the same problems then it means they were never dealt with fully in the first place. Little cracks in the horse's education can end up being gaping holes as they don't have the basic skills and education to allow them to progress.

Putting different gadgets on an already tense horse won't, can't, allow them to work correctly. 

I agree with those who said it may be worth backing off a bit for just now, perhaps hacking or groundwork to try and plug a few of the gaps. There are loads of things you could be working on, but by focussing on head position and outline you are setting yourself up for failure, if your aim is a correctly schooled and balanced horse. Get him going happily forward, responding to your aids, bending correctly and keeping straight when you want him to, and working on transitions between and within all paces, you can do this on the ground or ridden, in a school, field or hacking. By the time summer comes and you have lessons you'll have all the building blocks in place and be able to progress further with the support


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## PolarSkye (7 March 2014)

Goodness HHO can be a feisty place at times!  OP, I applaud you for asking the question . . . it shows that you want to improve and that's admirable.  I do, though, agree with showpony that in your shoes, I'd be tempted to just hack and enjoy and then when you have finished your GCSEs and have a little more (stress free) time and funds, invest in a lesson or two.  

The best way to achieve balance and self-carriage is sympathetic and patient riding and if what you are doing isn't working (and you say you don't have mirrors so can't really see what's happening) then the only remedy is some eyes on the ground.  

Best of luck with your GCSEs.

P


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## suegreenaway (7 March 2014)

Sorry can I just say really quickly that www.horsehero.com has some really good educational videos from all sorts of riders/ trainers in all disclipines, don't think it costs too much but not sure off hand, might be worth a look, lots of experience and ideas gained just from watching them ride different horses and explain things, and perhaps a bit cheaper than lessons at the moment? And can fit them in as 'revision wind down' maybe?


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## nikicb (7 March 2014)

PolarSkye said:



			Goodness HHO can be a feisty place at times!  OP, I applaud you for asking the question . . . it shows that you want to improve and that's admirable.  I do, though, agree with showpony that in your shoes, I'd be tempted to just hack and enjoy and then when you have finished your GCSEs and have a little more (stress free) time and funds, invest in a lesson or two.  

The best way to achieve balance and self-carriage is sympathetic and patient riding and if what you are doing isn't working (and you say you don't have mirrors so can't really see what's happening) then the only remedy is some eyes on the ground.  

Best of luck with your GCSEs.

P
		
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I think the feistiness (is that a word?) started here:



GreenEyedMonster said:



			If you aren't willing to say anything friendly then I'd appreciate it if you'd leave the thread, I was asking for advice from mature and understanding people, as you do not seem to fit this category then please don't reply to the question.
		
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The OP was given fair advice that there were no quick fixes and she needed to look at getting some instruction, and this was her response (addressed to Cortez, who in my experience always tends to give sensible advice).


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## PolarSkye (7 March 2014)

nikicb said:



			I think the feistiness (is that a word?) started here:



The OP was given fair advice that there were no quick fixes and she needed to look at getting some instruction, and this was her response (addressed to Cortez, who in my experience always tends to give sensible advice).
		
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I agree that the OP was a tad sharp/rude in her response . . . and that Cortez talks eminent sense . . . but she is only 16 and may have felt rather set upon.

All of the advice she has been given is sound . . . and she did "bite" at Cortez . . . but biting back at someone so young isn't particularly necessary, nor is it likely to encourage her to take the advice given.

Happy Sunny Friday all .

P


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## BackonTrack (7 March 2014)

While I agree that gadgets are not always an answer, they are not the work of the devil or never to be used in any circumstance. In the hands of a knowledge rider, who is using them to complement they work they are doing, they can help with specific issues.

I think the OP is brave to have posted her question, knowing the H&H forum hatred of the mere mention of the word gadget, sends so many into a spin out of all proportion.

Of course lessons are the answer but gadgets appear so helpful in the promises they promote, you can hardly blame OP for asking.

Not one person has asked OP what issues she is having with her horse. We only know that he gets tense and won't keep a consistent contact but no more.

She asking for help not criticism. 

So, OP what specific issues are you having, does your horse raise his head and get distracted when he gets tense? does he root out of your hands with his head towards the floor? does he hollow his back away from you? does he run off? are you able to keep your leg on when he's tense or does that really annoy him? does he become so inattentive that you can't get any sense out of him? is he better to school if he gets a chance to hack first? will he work over poles, which might help loosen his back? does he can turned out? do you jump him? 

Knowing the answers to some of these questions will help give much more knowledgable answers and perhaps a 'gadget' is on the market which could help. But I believe that until the actual problem is known it's hard to suggest anything


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## Mince Pie (7 March 2014)

PolarSkye said:



			I agree that the OP was a tad sharp/rude in her response . . . and that Cortez talks eminent sense . . . but she is only 16 and may have felt rather set upon.

All of the advice she has been given is sound . . . and she did "bite" at Cortez . . . but biting back at someone so young isn't particularly necessary, nor is it likely to encourage her to take the advice given.

Happy Sunny Friday all .

P
		
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I find Cortez gives good advice but even I felt her last sentence in that post was rather sarcastic, which is probably why the OP 'bit back'. I thought her replies to the other posters were very polite.


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## SaffronWelshDragon (7 March 2014)

OP, speaking from my own experience, I had been a happy hacker for 10 years. When I moved to current yard in 2012, I caught the competition bug. I spent a long time trying to find the right instructor, and tried a few out. One particular instructor had me sawing at Saf's mouth, leg on all the time, and wanted me to jag her in the mouth if she got overexcited and neighed. In hindsight I knew this just didn't sit right with me. I didn&#8217;t go back of course. I admit that to a lot of people, the &#8216;outline&#8217; Saf went in during this lesson looked flash, and much better than her usual nose-poking. She is so forgiving, and such an angel, that she put up with me, and forgave me. Horses generally just want to please and if you stick gadgets on your boy, he is unlikely to complain, so you&#8217;ll think that he is &#8216;happy&#8217; with the gadget. Thankfully I now have a wonderful, classical instructor, who is anti-gadget. I am seeing such an improvement in Saf&#8217;s schooling, and yes it is taking time, but there&#8217;s lot of progress and it&#8217;s so satisfying. 

I implore you to spend the gadget money on a few decent classical books and DVDs (if you can&#8217;t stretch to lessons).


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## GreenEyedMonster (7 March 2014)

Thanks everyone for your suggestions,  I tried side reins and lunged him just now to see if there was any change and there was... Slightly..
I think what you have said about gadgets have helped, he knows what to do but I think he is just avoiding it out of boredom and too much energy.
Getting the yard owner (who competes at 1*) to ride him for now and having the physio coming out AGAIN just to be sure there is no underlying issue,
As much as I understand hacking should be our thing for now, we are very limited to where we can to so it can get incredibly boring for the both of us! And as we are on the school team, it is quite hard to turn down a competition when the school is willing to pay for all and drive him there!
Perhaps in a month I will post again to let you know how this worked out? If not, thank you all for help, suggestions and even for just replying, took all of it into consideration,  I'm trying not to be an arrogant teenager but peer pressure to have a horse who goes well and do the team proud can get to you sometimes!
Thanks again!


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## GreenEyedMonster (7 March 2014)

PolarSkye said:



			Goodness HHO can be a feisty place at times!  OP, I applaud you for asking the question . . . it shows that you want to improve and that's admirable.  I do, though, agree with showpony that in your shoes, I'd be tempted to just hack and enjoy and then when you have finished your GCSEs and have a little more (stress free) time and funds, invest in a lesson or two.  

The best way to achieve balance and self-carriage is sympathetic and patient riding and if what you are doing isn't working (and you say you don't have mirrors so can't really see what's happening) then the only remedy is some eyes on the ground.  

Best of luck with your GCSEs.

P
		
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Thank you, not meaning to sound rude but it's frustrating when the horse doesn't understand, I can't see what's happening and no one else knows the exact source of the problem because they can't see!
Hearing a lot about balance so I think that's the first thing I will target!


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## Auslander (7 March 2014)

GreenEyedMonster said:



			Thanks everyone for your suggestions,  I tried side reins and lunged him just now to see if there was any change and there was... Slightly..
I think what you have said about gadgets have helped, he knows what to do but I think he is just avoiding it out of boredom and too much energy.
Getting the yard owner (who competes at 1*) to ride him for now and having the physio coming out AGAIN just to be sure there is no underlying issue,
As much as I understand hacking should be our thing for now, we are very limited to where we can to so it can get incredibly boring for the both of us! And as we are on the school team, it is quite hard to turn down a competition when the school is willing to pay for all and drive him there!
Perhaps in a month I will post again to let you know how this worked out? If not, thank you all for help, suggestions and even for just replying, took all of it into consideration,  I'm trying not to be an arrogant teenager but peer pressure to have a horse who goes well and do the team proud can get to you sometimes!
Thanks again! 

Click to expand...

Very mature response - good on you.

Best of luck with him, and I hope you do keep the updates flowing.


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## GreenEyedMonster (7 March 2014)

Thank you, I am hoping to invest in a DVD or two and some books when I have chance! Just got to find the right one out of so many!


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## nikicb (7 March 2014)

GreenEyedMonster said:



			Thanks everyone for your suggestions,  I tried side reins and lunged him just now to see if there was any change and there was... Slightly..
I think what you have said about gadgets have helped, he knows what to do but I think he is just avoiding it out of boredom and too much energy.
Getting the yard owner (who competes at 1*) to ride him for now and having the physio coming out AGAIN just to be sure there is no underlying issue,
As much as I understand hacking should be our thing for now, we are very limited to where we can to so it can get incredibly boring for the both of us! And as we are on the school team, it is quite hard to turn down a competition when the school is willing to pay for all and drive him there!
Perhaps in a month I will post again to let you know how this worked out? If not, thank you all for help, suggestions and even for just replying, took all of it into consideration,  I'm trying not to be an arrogant teenager but peer pressure to have a horse who goes well and do the team proud can get to you sometimes!
Thanks again! 

Click to expand...

A very gracious response.  

If you are on the school team, they should have a coach/trainer etc who coordinates you all.  Can you speak to them about helping you?  Also, if you find he has too much energy, maybe have a review of what he is being fed.  If his work has dropped he may not need as much as he is getting, and he would no doubt be happier to have less to burn off, especially as spring grass is coming through.


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## GreenEyedMonster (7 March 2014)

BackonTrack said:



			While I agree that gadgets are not always an answer, they are not the work of the devil or never to be used in any circumstance. In the hands of a knowledge rider, who is using them to complement they work they are doing, they can help with specific issues.

I think the OP is brave to have posted her question, knowing the H&H forum hatred of the mere mention of the word gadget, sends so many into a spin out of all proportion.

Of course lessons are the answer but gadgets appear so helpful in the promises they promote, you can hardly blame OP for asking.

Not one person has asked OP what issues she is having with her horse. We only know that he gets tense and won't keep a consistent contact but no more.

She asking for help not criticism. 

So, OP what specific issues are you having, does your horse raise his head and get distracted when he gets tense? does he root out of your hands with his head towards the floor? does he hollow his back away from you? does he run off? are you able to keep your leg on when he's tense or does that really annoy him? does he become so inattentive that you can't get any sense out of him? is he better to school if he gets a chance to hack first? will he work over poles, which might help loosen his back? does he can turned out? do you jump him? 

Knowing the answers to some of these questions will help give much more knowledgable answers and perhaps a 'gadget' is on the market which could help. But I believe that until the actual problem is known it's hard to suggest anything 

Click to expand...

Thank you for asking! He raises his head and tenses and hollows his back but I can tell he is trying to do what I ask as he tucks his head and flicks his toes but you can just feel  he wants to just stretch out and "run", he doesn't run off exactly but does hurry and given the chance likes to do a very false impression of extended trot that is about as fast as a speedy canter!
He is happy to put his nose to the floor in walk, turned out as often as possible and he is only jumped away from home as he gets too hot at home and cross country!

He gets very very cross when I keep my leg on and practically goes backwards, he just trots on the spot and grunts, he is using the excuse to spook at things he has seen hundreds of times before now and in canter to trot transitions he (like I said) just tucks his head in and "fakes it" really, I know his first owner who had him from 4-10 sold him because he scared her so I think she just used her hands to get his head on and that was it! He was out of work for 18 months before I finally brought him, he rushes over poles but when we have had a few rare sessions of calmness he stretched out nicely.


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## GreenEyedMonster (7 March 2014)

nikicb said:



			A very gracious response.  

If you are on the school team, they should have a coach/trainer etc who coordinates you all.  Can you speak to them about helping you?  Also, if you find he has too much energy, maybe have a review of what he is being fed.  If his work has dropped he may not need as much as he is getting, and he would no doubt be happier to have less to burn off, especially as spring grass is coming through.
		
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Very sensitive to his feed, one minute he was on veteran mix, the next Topspec senior, now baileys conditioning cubes because he loses weight and condition so easily due to his age and breed type.
Can't believe I never thought to ask Sarah (the team manager)!! Going to ask her on Tuesday when I have BHS stages training.
Can't really take him off his feed as chaff or leisure feeds don't really do enough for him condition wise 

Oh and to prevent any confusion, the stages training is on school's horses only and mainly on the care of horses not the riding, I know that doesn't make sense but riding wise we are at different levels, one girl does not jump, the other does a lot of dressage but does not understand the instructions (she's German!)


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## Lyle (7 March 2014)

Schooling can be a frustrating experience when you feel you are really on your own, and the lure of gadgets with pictures of horses looking nice working in them can be tempting!

If funds are an issue, I'd highly suggest looking into a good base-level up dressage training book. I've used Jane Savoie's 'Dressage 101' as a reference for me to turn too when I couldn't have a lesson. It's a very simple to read book, she explains the biomechanics of how horses work whilst doing dressage, and what the 'ultimate' aim is. It's also basically a simple to follow training guide, starting form the very fundamental basics which form the foundations of good training. There are several components a horse must be able to achieve on the foundation level before you can start to climb the ladder. These foundations are outlined step by step, and what you can do to achieve it, and also a section on trouble shooting. She will then introduce lateral work, go through 'half-halts' and achieving engagement.
Might be worth a look, check out her website.

Perhaps for now concentrate on getting him relaxed? If he's carrying lots of negative tension he's obviously not confident, and he's not going to be willing to give and stretch down and out. Good Luck, just take the pressure off for a while and enjoy yourselves!


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## Crazydancer (7 March 2014)

Just one thought - you say he will stretch his nose to the floor in walk? My mare was no-where near as bad as you have described him, but was still tense in trot, so I started off walk, head low, relaxed, then just a very quiet 'ask' for trot, but only a stride, then back to walk, relaxed..... when we were there, relaxed, just again, ask for a single stride of trot. After a few times, she would stay long and low for that one stride. So then I asked for two..... and so on. Now we can trot relaxed, long and low, ok it's a long slow process, but from there I've started asking for a little more contact, and bringing her back up. I still have to go back to basics a lot. And I do still have to start everything from long and low walk. Just might be worth a try?


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## GreenEyedMonster (7 March 2014)

Crazydancer said:



			Just one thought - you say he will stretch his nose to the floor in walk? My mare was no-where near as bad as you have described him, but was still tense in trot, so I started off walk, head low, relaxed, then just a very quiet 'ask' for trot, but only a stride, then back to walk, relaxed..... when we were there, relaxed, just again, ask for a single stride of trot. After a few times, she would stay long and low for that one stride. So then I asked for two..... and so on. Now we can trot relaxed, long and low, ok it's a long slow process, but from there I've started asking for a little more contact, and bringing her back up. I still have to go back to basics a lot. And I do still have to start everything from long and low walk. Just might be worth a try?
		
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Might have to keep going at that one then, i did try it for a few weeks but because he got so cross with every downward transition and so hot with upwards transitions, we only really achieve anything nice and relaxed and correct when he is in walk. I am putting it down so far to his old man back needing some tweaking, probably a bad saddle but meant to be M to M! And poor balance because of this!


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## Auslander (8 March 2014)

If he's resistant to your leg/hand, it's probably an idea to introduce exercises that will make him take responsibility for managing his own tempo/balance etc. There's a really good exercise that I learned at Talland, and use a lot when teaching, called the 6 circle exercise. You can do it in walk, trot and canter, and use transitions within the pace, and upwards/downwards between the circles - and in the case of a horse who argues, you can steer, and leave him to sort himself out - he'll soon learn that its simpler to slow down and listen, than to try and rush/argue. 
There's a video of Charlie Hutton riding the exercise herehttp://www.yourhorse.co.uk/Improve-your-riding/Search-Results/Celebrity-Training-Videos/Dressage/Charlie-Hutton/

The exercise is a bit tricky to learn, but once you've got it, its very simple to ride, and fun to play around with doing different things between the circles. Essentially, you do 10 metre circles in each corner, and at  E and B, changing the rein between each circle, carrying on round the school in the same direction in that pattern. Sounds complicated, but its really effective! The vid should help you get to grips with the floor pattern.


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## paulineh (8 March 2014)

I have just had a thought. One of mine really does not like working in the school, he will do but is not that happy. I have done a lot of my schooling while out on hacks. There is a great book that shows you how to use hacks as schooling sessions. The book is called "Schooling as you Hack"

I may have missed it but have you had his back and saddle checked. If he is resisting you he could be in pain.

Plain  lunging getting him to work long and low so that he stretches his neck and back will help him.


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## GreenEyedMonster (8 March 2014)

paulineh said:



			I have just had a thought. One of mine really does not like working in the school, he will do but is not that happy. I have done a lot of my schooling while out on hacks. There is a great book that shows you how to use hacks as schooling sessions. The book is called "Schooling as you Hack"

I may have missed it but have you had his back and saddle checked. If he is resisting you he could be in pain.

Plain  lunging getting him to work long and low so that he stretches his neck and back will help him.
		
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Yes I lunged him last night and have decided I will continue to do that before I ride now just to get him warmed up properly and will have a look at that book! He is having his back checked ASAP and I spoke to his last owner who said he pretends he doesn't understand if you leave it for a while before going back to something!


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## GreenEyedMonster (10 April 2014)

Just to inform you that following all the comments when I first posted this thread, I have since par taken in a dressage competition where everything went swimmingly until we reached the ring itself and the atmosphere was so spooky and windy the poor chap decided it would be best to just canter the entire thing with additional spooks.
Our jumping has improved and it seems the issue was a sensitive mouth and a lack of patience...
So basically, thanks for all your help, I hope to get out doing more dressage soon!


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## windand rain (10 April 2014)

Well done for taking things on board I am sorry the dressage test didn't work out but I am sure with time and schooling it will get better and better. Your boy sounds like one I teach and the circling exercise worked really well for him. I am sure once the balance and acceptance of leg and hand come he will rapidly improve. He sounds like the boy I teach who runs through as an evasion he is ostensibly lazy but uses running away for avoiding actually working as running through is easier than lifting and carrying himself


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## PaddyMonty (11 April 2014)

OP - from your description of what is happening I am going to suggest a training aid.
Get a thin neckstrap.
When you want to ride a downward transition apply all the aids with your body without touching the rein then simply apply backward pressure to the neckstrap. You will find the horse will respond to this without fighting. Using this method you will teach your horse to respond to aids from your body thus avoiding the tension created by the bit.
I can not lay claim to this gadget and its use. It's a technique taught to me by Chris Bartle. If you dont know who he is a quick google will fill in the blanks.
As far as other gadgets are concerned I'm with the majority on here. From experience (old and grey) I have learnt that those who need the gadget dont have the experience to use them properly. Those that do have the experience to use them dont generally need them.


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## Undecided (11 April 2014)

Hill work!


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## rotters13 (11 April 2014)

Quick thought - I get very stressed schooling at home as I want everything 'at once' which makes the horse stressed, and me more stressed as unsurprisingly it isn't going like Valegro. I much better with someone on the ground as I'm concentrating on them and not the horse but due to funds etc etc it's not something I can do all the time!

Have you considered trying some of these downloadable lessons?! They're a fraction of the price of a normal lesson, you pop them onto your ipod and off you go. It's like having someone on the ground so I don't get as stressed and as a result the horse goes better. 

In addition, when schooling, what happens if you aim for just one thing? Ie: not wanting horse uphill, engaged and doing extended trots like a GP schoolmaster, but just concentrating on one thing, such as staying supple (even if just in walk!). I also try and layout a very set routine, so I know that my schooling sessions start with 10 minutes long and low, then a walk/trot/canter on both reins, then my 'schooling' session is only 15 minutes with a specific exercise in mind. I also try and keep everything very positive in my head so lots of verbal praise as it also calms me down. 

I know I've portrayed myself as a hugely nervous novice but if you're anything like me, due to exams (I'm at uni) you feel pressured that the horse MUST go well and as a result it goes horribly.  Where are you based? PM me any progress!


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## GreenEyedMonster (11 April 2014)

rotters13 said:



			Quick thought - I get very stressed schooling at home as I want everything 'at once' which makes the horse stressed, and me more stressed as unsurprisingly it isn't going like Valegro. I much better with someone on the ground as I'm concentrating on them and not the horse but due to funds etc etc it's not something I can do all the time!

Have you considered trying some of these downloadable lessons?! They're a fraction of the price of a normal lesson, you pop them onto your ipod and off you go. It's like having someone on the ground so I don't get as stressed and as a result the horse goes better. 

In addition, when schooling, what happens if you aim for just one thing? Ie: not wanting horse uphill, engaged and doing extended trots like a GP schoolmaster, but just concentrating on one thing, such as staying supple (even if just in walk!). I also try and layout a very set routine, so I know that my schooling sessions start with 10 minutes long and low, then a walk/trot/canter on both reins, then my 'schooling' session is only 15 minutes with a specific exercise in mind. I also try and keep everything very positive in my head so lots of verbal praise as it also calms me down. 

I know I've portrayed myself as a hugely nervous novice but if you're anything like me, due to exams (I'm at uni) you feel pressured that the horse MUST go well and as a result it goes horribly.  Where are you based? PM me any progress!
		
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I'm up on the derbyshire/staffordshire border so quite far from civilisation 
I've realised recently that it's best to keep the schooling to only doing things to he point where he gets bored or naughty, not of fear but because that way he is more willing when we get back into the school again.

I do talk to him a lot whether were jumping at a show or just on the school, but yes I do feel everything has to happen at once so that must be where things are going wrong!

Those downloadable lessons sound brilliant! What are they called and are they on the App Store?


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## GreenEyedMonster (11 April 2014)

PaddyMonty said:



			OP - from your description of what is happening I am going to suggest a training aid.
Get a thin neckstrap.
When you want to ride a downward transition apply all the aids with your body without touching the rein then simply apply backward pressure to the neckstrap. You will find the horse will respond to this without fighting. Using this method you will teach your horse to respond to aids from your body thus avoiding the tension created by the bit.
I can not lay claim to this gadget and its use. It's a technique taught to me by Chris Bartle. If you dont know who he is a quick google will fill in the blanks.
As far as other gadgets are concerned I'm with the majority on here. From experience (old and grey) I have learnt that those who need the gadget dont have the experience to use them properly. Those that do have the experience to use them dont generally need them. 

Click to expand...

That's something I might try today! We've realised he has an incredibly sensitive mouth so I'm hoping to buy a good quality loose ring snaffle, possible the Team Up snaffle by Neue Schule so if I move my hands it doesn't bother him as much as his hanging cheek snaffle might.
Thanks


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## smja (11 April 2014)

There's so much choice with bits, it's just a case of playing around until horse likes something. Is there anyone who could lend you a loose ring to try, before buying an expensive one? Maybe the bit bank?

I sympathise with you on the dressage test...my first one was *supposed* to be walk and trot...


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## TarrSteps (11 April 2014)

GreenEyedMonster said:



			That's something I might try today! We've realised he has an incredibly sensitive mouth so I'm hoping to buy a good quality loose ring snaffle, possible the Team Up snaffle by Neue Schule so if I move my hands it doesn't bother him as much as his hanging cheek snaffle might.
Thanks
		
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What is the reasoning there? If anything the hanging cheek will 'hold' the bit up in the mouth and more still - that's the point of the design. A loose ring multiple joint is about the most 'mobile' bit you can get, especially used with a accession. Obviously many horses go very well in them if a horse is fussy about things moving around in his mouth that will be even more of an issue. Although that's not related to sensitivity - a horse can be fussy and unreactive, or still and super sensitive, and many variations in between.

Sorry to hear you show was a bit hairy but glad things are coming along.


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## chestnut cob (11 April 2014)

rotters13 said:



			In addition, when schooling, what happens if you aim for just one thing? Ie: not wanting horse uphill, engaged and doing extended trots like a GP schoolmaster, but just concentrating on one thing, such as staying supple (even if just in walk!). I also try and layout a very set routine, so I know that my schooling sessions start with 10 minutes long and low, then a walk/trot/canter on both reins, then my 'schooling' session is only 15 minutes with a specific exercise in mind. I also try and keep everything very positive in my head so lots of verbal praise as it also calms me down.
		
Click to expand...

I think this is really good advice actually.  If I go into the school without a plan, I usually end up with things going wrong as I don't know what I'm aiming for.  I have to structure my sessions, and I have to set small goals, not a big, vague goal.  A bit like at work when they set my objectives, they are all measurable, so I try to use the same principle with the horse.  I want to work on and try to achieve X, Y and Z, which are all small things but measurable, then horse gets praise for doing lots of small things.  If I don't set markers and goals like that, I get frustrated with stresses him out.  Last night we worked on quality transitions from walk up into trot, and back down again.  Loads and loads of them.  Then the same trot to canter, and forwards back into trot instead of collapsing.  When I concentrate on seemingly little things like that, funnily enough the big stuff (like "he's not listening/ concentrating" etc) falls into place.  I find it better to go in with a plan of working on our transitions, or our SI in walk, or shallow loops in canter, or figure 8s/ serpentines with changes of pace etc, than think about him "not going softly enough".  The latter is too vague, though it's easily done.


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## TarrSteps (11 April 2014)

chestnut cob said:



			I think this is really good advice actually.  If I go into the school without a plan, I usually end up with things going wrong as I don't know what I'm aiming for.  I have to structure my sessions, and I have to set small goals, not a big, vague goal.  A bit like at work when they set my objectives, they are all measurable, so I try to use the same principle with the horse.  I want to work on and try to achieve X, Y and Z, which are all small things but measurable, then horse gets praise for doing lots of small things.  If I don't set markers and goals like that, I get frustrated with stresses him out.  Last night we worked on quality transitions from walk up into trot, and back down again.  Loads and loads of them.  Then the same trot to canter, and forwards back into trot instead of collapsing.  When I concentrate on seemingly little things like that, funnily enough the big stuff (like "he's not listening/ concentrating" etc) falls into place.  I find it better to go in with a plan of working on our transitions, or our SI in walk, or shallow loops in canter, or figure 8s/ serpentines with changes of pace etc, than think about him "not going softly enough".  The latter is too vague, though it's easily done.
		
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Very good advice.

One point to add, move on in a session when you achieve IMPROVEMENT don't keep pushing for x number of perfect repeats. I often see people ruin all their good work in a session wanting 'one more' when the horse has done its best and is tired, or, worse, the rider is too tired to ask well and support the horse properly. You don't have to finish but move on to something the horse does easily and well, or do some fitness work or similar


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## chestnut cob (11 April 2014)

TarrSteps said:



			Very good advice.

One point to add, move on in a session when you achieve IMPROVEMENT don't keep pushing for x number of perfect repeats. I often see people ruin all their good work in a session wanting 'one more' when the horse has done its best and is tired, or, worse, the rider is too tired to ask well and support the horse properly. You don't have to finish but move on to something the horse does easily and well, or do some fitness work or similar
		
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Yes, and also praise when the horse *tries*, which IME makes him more likely to want to try again.  My little horse learns v quickly - if he gets a small acknowledgement that he tried, he will try a little bit harder next time.  I have to try hard to recognise his little tries and to make sure I reward them quickly enough, even if it is just a tiny soften of the inside rein or something like that.  It's really easy to get carried away with always wanting more, I do it, so I have to make a conscious effort to look for when he tries instead of wanting the finished article now.  Also think it's worth finding out what your horse responds to - I try my best to mix in the stuff that really makes him think or he finds hard, with things he finds easy.  So we might do a few circles with the transitions like I mentioned then move onto some canter work, which is his most favourite thing in the world, whether that be cantering in half seat for a couple of laps, or playing with various figures in canter.  Then back to the thing he finds hard, or something else to make him think.

I would also say that it's worth thinking less about what the horse is doing, and more about what is my body doing, what aids am I giving and are they correct etc.  I have a terrible habit of throwing away my inside rein on the right, so I spent did some work on that y'day and when I consciously think about what I'm doing with it, and analyse my riding, the horse automatically improves underneath you.


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## TarrSteps (11 April 2014)

chestnut cob said:



			Yes, and also praise when the horse *tries*, which IME makes him more likely to want to try again.  My little horse learns v quickly - if he gets a small acknowledgement that he tried, he will try a little bit harder next time.  I have to try hard to recognise his little tries and to make sure I reward them quickly enough, even if it is just a tiny soften of the inside rein or something like that.  It's really easy to get carried away with always wanting more, I do it, so I have to make a conscious effort to look for when he tries instead of wanting the finished article now.  Also think it's worth finding out what your horse responds to - I try my best to mix in the stuff that really makes him think or he finds hard, with things he finds easy.  So we might do a few circles with the transitions like I mentioned then move onto some canter work, which is his most favourite thing in the world, whether that be cantering in half seat for a couple of laps, or playing with various figures in canter.  Then back to the thing he finds hard, or something else to make him think.

I would also say that it's worth thinking less about what the horse is doing, and more about what is my body doing, what aids am I giving and are they correct etc.  I have a terrible habit of throwing away my inside rein on the right, so I spent did some work on that y'day and when I consciously think about what I'm doing with it, and analyse my riding, the horse automatically improves underneath you.
		
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Very true. I tighten the back of one thigh and draw up the heel (I do other things as well, of course, but this fundamentally affects my base of support). If i'm seeing tension in the work I check that first and it's often the cause.


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## Mince Pie (11 April 2014)

My homework is to soften my upper body as I tighten and brace against my boy who tends to fall on his forehand.


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## el_Snowflakes (12 April 2014)

Sounds like you have a lot on at the moment. Maybe you should give yourself and the horse a wee break until after your exams then start regular lessons with a qualified instructor. Personally I think riding is more about quality than quantity. I would rather have a lesson then practice  my 'homework' a couple of time a week than ride day in day out and never feel like I getting anywhere. Maybe you could sacrifice in other areas to afford lessons? Group lessons might out cheaper and riding clubs offer inexpensive  tuition (IME) 

My main point is; don't struggle away on your own. You will be amazed how lessons will help- and it sounds like you need help and are grasping at straws by hoping that training aids will solve your problems. They wont, and are likely to be counter productive. Good luck with your exams & best wishes.


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## rotters13 (12 April 2014)

Found this! http://iridetraining.co.uk/

Might work. Or might not, but probably worth a try!


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## buddylove (12 April 2014)

Auslander said:



			I think it would be in the best interests of both you and the horse to give him a break from schooling until you've finished your exams, and can devote some time and thought into working him correctly. Artificial aids will do nothing but force your horse into a false outline. Some have their uses, but only in very experienced hands, to address specific training issues. Your issue is not a training one, but a lack of experience. That will come, and it will come faster if you don't fall into the trap of using gadgets as a short cut. You are at the stage where you think you are an experienced rider, but you will look back on this period when you have a few more years under your belt, and realise how little you know. It sounds to me like your horse isn't particularly educated, and you are not yet skilled enough to improve a horse. It's a "blind leading the blind" scenario, and this won't improve until you are in a position to get some help from an instructor. The best thing you could do is to take some lessons on a schoolmaster, to give you an idea of what it should feel like. Then you will understand the difference between working a horse correctly, and using gadgets to create a false impression of correctness.

On another note - I understand that you are young, but you would do well to remember your manners when speaking to adults. One person you have been rude to on this thread is an extremely well regarded trainer, who could probably help you immensely if you were gracious enough to accept politely the advice she gave. I have a son the same age as you, so I understand the teenage mind, but to be frank, if my son spoke to adults the way you have on here, he would be in serious trouble.
		
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 Complete and utter sense - every word! Take a break OP it will do you and your horse the world of good!


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## gunnergundog (12 April 2014)

Hi OP.....is your YO, the 1 star rider you have currently riding your horse, not able to help you/teach you on the yard where you are at full livery without having to box away?  

If money is tight I would forget new bits and put money to a lesson with the above person;  maybe supplement the money by 'working' for your lesson.....offer to clean tack, poo pick whatever.

Good luck


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## lannerch (12 April 2014)

Am I right in thinking op you have only been riding for three years and you have had your horse for two of these few years, does this mean you only had lessons for one year?
It takes many years to become a competent rider and you never get there, a balanced seat to all but a very lucky few takes about 5 years to develop , you really do need regular lessons to progress. 
Preferably on these early stages a schoolmaster!


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