# Plait found in mares mane Beds/bucks/herts Borders Warning!!



## Dilbydoos (1 January 2010)

Happy New Year Everyone.. 

I have just come back from putting my horse to bed tonight, when a plait was found in another horses mane! Looked a bit like a dread lock but was an obvious plait! We believe that she could of been ear marked for being stolen, so this is a warning.. She also has a foal at foot and seems untouched at present... 

Thanks for reading


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## Serenity087 (1 January 2010)

*yawn*


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## Dilbydoos (1 January 2010)

WHY THE YAWN.........is that not a bit RUDE!!!


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## lhotse (1 January 2010)

It's all getting a bit boring, hence the 'yawn' There is NO evidence whatsoever that horses are being tagged. There is evidence of new members trying to incite mass hysteria on this forum though.


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## Natch (1 January 2010)

[ QUOTE ]
 Looked a bit like a dread lock but was an obvious plait!  

[/ QUOTE ]

Have a search and a read: it is likely to be a wind tangle and nothing to worry about.

No evidence exists for horses being marked for theft in this way.

Although it is a good reminder to be vigilant against theft at all times.


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## Dilbydoos (1 January 2010)

Arrrr ok fair enough.... So why would there be a random plait appear, does seem a little strange!! I may not have posted very often on here,but I have been a member for some time. I am NOT trying to worry other members but purely trying to warn others of our GENUINE findings!!


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## Natch (1 January 2010)

See this thread:

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/5067288/an/0/page/0/gonew/1#UNREAD


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## dorani (1 January 2010)

My horses have been getting these for the past 35 years and none stolen....They are caused by the wind and damp/wet air,they do look like dreadlocks, a good description!
 We used to say it was where the witches had been riding the horse and tangled the mane tightly to keep a good hold!! Show's how long they have been around.
I think if someone wants to steal your horse the first you  know about it is when you find it has gone sadly.


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## equineeyes (1 January 2010)

Glad to hear none of yours have been stolen.... one of mine was.... in August, no wind for ages, no withces and no plait like it before or since!!!
Please DO NOT JOIN THE YAWN GANG AND BE HAPPY THAT YOU HAVE NEVER HAD TO GO THROUGH THE AGONY


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## Tinseltoes (1 January 2010)

I think if a thief wants your horse,he wouldnt be stupid enough to mark it first,he would go and take it!!!!


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## dorani (1 January 2010)

Terribly sorry to hear that. My sympathies are with you, truly.x


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## Serenity087 (1 January 2010)

I yawned because it's all mass hysteria.  

And for the record, no, I've never seen one of these plaits.

However, I have a good friend who found her mare with it's vagina between it's back legs and it's vulva slashed open.  It wasn't reported to the police because the vet decided it was a kick, and with no medical evidence to prove she'd been assaulted, the police weren't interested.

So I do know what it's like to be genuinely scared for my horses!  Plaits?  Pssh.  Try finding your horse half dead from blood loss.


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## Dilbydoos (1 January 2010)

I am sorry to hear of your loss!! I am glad we found this plait and I dont plan on becoming part of the Yawn Clan!! Just very worrying for everyone... My horse is Freezemarked and Micro chipped, and is very wary of strangers.....
The horse that had the plait also has a foal at foot....


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## Hedgewitch13 (1 January 2010)

Odd how these plaits don't turn up in pulled manes..... It's a wind tangle! Seriously if someone wants to steal a horse they will just nick it. They wouldn't mark it first for all to see.... AND if they are going to steal it, usually at night, do you really think they are going to approach EVERY horse in the field and feel it's mane for a tangle - oops sorry plait?

A bit of common sense and thought goes a long way.


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## Tinseltoes (1 January 2010)

I agree with you Hedgewitch13 its common sense.Horse thieves are not going to mess around in a field,they wouldnt want to be caught! They would just come and take it!!!


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## Dilbydoos (1 January 2010)

I have now read so many different opinions TBH... I really dont think it was a wind tangle as it was kinda tied at the bottom... But yeah i understand that it does seem very strange tagging the horse first!! But god knows what these thieves think... Lets just hope it is a wind tangle and nothing more....


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## JanetGeorge (2 January 2010)

[ QUOTE ]


However, I have a good friend who found her mare with it's vagina between it's back legs and it's vulva slashed open.  It wasn't reported to the police because the vet decided it was a kick, and with no medical evidence to prove she'd been assaulted, the police weren't interested.


[/ QUOTE ]

That sounds anatomically impossible!  For the vagina to end up between the back legs would take more than the vulva being slashed or kicked - the vagina would have to be physically separated from the cervix and the blood loss would be massive and almost certainly fatal withina VERY short space of time.  And the vagina is only6-8 inches long - it would barely get past the buttocks if itWAS separated from the cervix and inverted.  Was the mare in foal at the time - if so, what might be found between the mare's back legs would be the placenta.  

I had an in-foal mare badly kicked in the vulva leaving her with a huge gash right across it which required 20 stitches.  Fortunately she did not abort (6 months pregnant at the time) and foaled normally - and has bred easily since.  I didn't suspect anything other than a kick - if anyone had injured that mare in that way I'd have found HIS body in the field!  

If the vet thought it was a kick, it probably was! 

I have also had a mare bleed badly into the broad ligament after large foal kicked back during difficult foaling (just a small tear).  Within an hour she was on the floor and without immediate expert attention she would have died.  If the broad ligament had torn, she would have been dead in an hour.

There is a fair bit of mass hysteria about assaults on horses too.  There is usually a more mundane explanation!


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## Zebedee (2 January 2010)

[ QUOTE ]
I have now read so many different opinions TBH... I really dont think it was a wind tangle as it was kinda tied at the bottom... But yeah i understand that it does seem very strange tagging the horse first!! But god knows what these thieves think... Lets just hope it is a wind tangle and nothing more.... 

[/ QUOTE ]

Look at the pictures of the "plaits "in the other thread. They all look tied too.

My elderly mare often comes in with these tangles, &amp; to date hasn't been stolen despite them quite frequently being left in for days. She's the only one who is ever 'tagged' in this manner, inspite of being of being in a field of competiton horses &amp; youngstock. Common sense dicates that it's more to do with her having the only long mane than anything else


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## Cuffey (2 January 2010)

There have been a number of horses/ponies found with mane plaits recently in my area--all within the Motorway corridor but non to date have been stolen.
 No incidents reported throughout the rest of the Region
All are sensible owners who have kept horses for many years
At one location where a pony was found with a plait another pony has had its tail hacked off a couple of weeks later and no sign of the hair. Both ponies are now very nervous.
Definitely odd
Incidents have been logged and people asked to remain vigilant but not panic.
Police quite prepared to go into properties to advise on security


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## Serenity087 (2 January 2010)

Janet - I did exaggerate slightly to prove a point - mare was totally prolapsed, not in foal at all.

Probably was a kick, to be fair, but we lived in an area of surrey notorious for horse mutilations.

I've had white vans outside paddocks, gypsies bringing my horses home after they've escaped, people standing beside my field for no apparent reason, wind tangles, missing tails, random injuries and not one single theft.

I am getting vaguely annoyed with the scammers behind it because they're flooding a workable system and meaning that actual threats and thefts are ignored!


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## _HP_ (2 January 2010)

DD...is it a long mane or a pulled one. Have you pictures to show us?
Mypony regularly gets these tangles in windy weather...like these:


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## DebbieCG (2 January 2010)

I think all horse owners should be vigilant that horse theft can happen.

As a victim of horse theft myself, I am always very distressed when I see the dismissive comments made by horse owners who have never had the misfortune to suffer the trauma and, in my case, as we were never able to find our horse and get our 'life back to normal', the lifetime of heartache that it causes.

My horse was stolen in 1981 and my family and I have never got over the loss.  Certainly things were a little different then and we certainly never expected anything so terrible like that to happen, as it was not so common then.  We could never find our beautiful horse and one of the most agonising things was, and still is, the 'not knowing'.  You just want to know if they are alive or not.  I don't know if he suffered and I don't know if he survived and just hoping amongst hope that he got to a good home brings no peace or closure, as ultimately I just know know what happend to him.  My mother always said it was like losing a child and I can only liken it to a member of your family going missing and you don't know what has happened to them - no-one would wish to be in that position in life.

I don't agree that 'mass hysteria' is a term to be used just because someone is concerned for the safety of their precious animal.  It is not silly to be vigilant or to be on the look out, if something has been of concern.  Hopefully there is nothing to be worried about, but awareness is very important, as is hopefully finding out the course of concern is something more practical.

I have experienced the loss of horses in a more normal way, as is the way of life, and from accident too.  But nothing compares to the loss of your horse from being stolen.  I've got that pain for life.


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## Serenity087 (2 January 2010)

I'm absolutely mortified that you compare losing a horse to losing a child!

I have buried my sister and I have buried a horse and I assure you now, painful as both are, they are not even in the same league.  Especially as your horse was stolen, not killed.

Please, keep your scaremongering about horse thefts and these plaits to yourself.  It is not necessary and is clogging up the system, thus preventing real warnings from getting out to horse owners.


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## PapaFrita (2 January 2010)

[ QUOTE ]
  But nothing compares to the loss of your horse from being stolen.  I've got that pain for life. 

[/ QUOTE ]
Oh, you have GOT to be joking! Horrendous as your experience has been there most certainly ARE worse things that could happen.


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## arwenplusone (2 January 2010)

New loss prevention!
Hog your horse! 

Ergo It won't get stolen!

I am a genius.


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## Serenity087 (3 January 2010)

It's okay, all the posh expensive showjumpers, eventers and dressage horses with any value arent going to get stolen because amazingly the plaits don't appear in pulled manes!!


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## *hic* (3 January 2010)

[ QUOTE ]
It's okay, all the posh expensive showjumpers, eventers and dressage horses with any value arent going to get stolen because amazingly the plaits don't appear in pulled manes!! 

[/ QUOTE ]

That's certainly borne out by my experience that the only horse on my field  that gets "marked" is worth meat money only and is the only one with a long mane! Mind you the people that mark him must be geniuses with horses because he's terrified of strangers entering his field and often won't even let us fuss him, let alone get a headcollar on him. Oh and they're also rather stupid as he's usually unrugged and very visibly freezemarked.


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## hairycob (3 January 2010)

Same at our yard. The 2 that aren't freezemarked never get "tagged" but my 20yo sarcoid laden arthritic freezemarked mare must be highly desirable as in winter she is rarely without them!


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## KarynK (3 January 2010)

Yes being alert to the possibility of a horse being stolen is never a bad thing, but all this is achieving is spreading panic and causing stress to people who see one of these and assume their treasured horse is about to be stolen when the facts say otherwise.

I would say to anyone who is worried look on the Stolen horse register and see for yourself that genuine horse theft is very rare.  You are far more at risk of having your rug or tack and equipment than your horse.

Providing you take all the precautions you can, be it freeze marking or microchipping, and put a sign up to this effect around your premises or on the gate there is a very tiny chance that this will happen to you.

My broodmares get exactly the same as in that picture above and have been doing so for years.  I have just watched one form over the past couple of days as I was going to photograph it but forgot.  Day 1 a couple of hairs from opposing bunches of mane joined together the above that point the hair began to twist as the bottom was joined and She now has two dreadlocks joined about half way down the mane on day three, the same as has happened in the picture.

A plat put in by a human is totally different and would start at the top of the mane, you would want to do it quickly and spinning a deadlock and joining two of them would take a lot longer than putting in a plat.

What would be good out of all this is if people take the time to mark and record details of their horses, take pictures of your horse in summer and winter coat, keep a record of all this in an envelope somewhere safe, take close ups of distinguishing marks, make a note of numbers for passport, who it was issued by, microchip and freeze brand. If you are one of the rare cases then you have the means to report that theft quickly and accurately, quick enough to stand a very good chance of finding your horse left in someones field as it is too hot to handle!!

While you are at it and in a state of mind to do so MARK ALL YOUR TACK, RUGS, EQUIPMENT and TRAILER/LORRY.  Then if any of these get stolen you stand a chance of getting them back and the police stand a chance of convicting those responsible.

So rather than focusing on the rights and wrongs spend that energy and time wisely and get the paint, marker pen, tack marking kit or  vet out and protect your equine friend and your property.


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## DebbieCG (3 January 2010)

A few of these subsequent 'comments' are a sharp reminder of why, as a victim of horse theft and, therefore, someone with first-hand experience and knowledge of how it affects your life, I don't generally post anything on this type of subject.  I just hold on to the hope that there are reasonable minded people out there, unlike a couple of the posters here.

There is no scaremongering going on here - just the initial poster who is concerned for the safety of their animal, which hopefully is nothing to be worried about but the poster is just seeking some advice.  But there are a few posters who it would appear are the ones themselves who are hyping it up.  I was merely only giving my personal experience of horse theft in reply to the 'few' who appear very dismissive, in the eventuallity that it did happen.

Harper-gal - I am mortified that there are people with 'opinions and attitudes' like yours.  In fact, one of the worst things about the whole terrible experience of having my horse stolen was people with your type of attitude.  Why do you have horses yourself if not for the pure love of looking after and keeping such wonderful creatures?  For some people, it is their world.  And certainly, in the case of my mother and myself, our horse was our world (and we had to work very hard to have and keep him). And actually it was my mother who compared losing our horse, in the manner in which we did (ie. he was traumatically ripped out of our lives never to be seen again or without knowledge of his wellbeing or whether he was alive or not or whether he was killed or not) as to like losing a child.  Are you saying that my mother should never have said that, even though it was how she felt?  My mother is no longer here and her health was affected considerably by our horse being stolen.  And on a final note, the point about 'not knowing' is just that - I don't know if my horse was killed or not, after all he was in what could best be described as 'ruthless hands' and back then our worst fear was that our horse could have been sold for slaughter.  If that is what did happen, and of course I do not know, then I would classify that as my horse being killed.    We were distraught.  We were powerless to protect him.   At the time we said we just want to know if he is dead or alive.  Then at least we could have tried to deal with whatever had happened to him.  But of course we just did not know, either way.  Therefore we could not even grieve properly.  They were very dark days. To this day, I do not know what happened to him - therefore I do not have peace.  It is just the way it is - we are all different.

There is a Channel 4 Cutting Edge documentary made in about 1993 which follows the traumatic and harrowing experience of about 5 people/families who have had their horses stolen and the effects it has and the pain of trying to find their horses.  These people all made comments to the effect that it 'was like losing a child', or their horse was 'third generation' or 'people don't realise what it's like'.  One of the people at the end of the programme, who actually was fortunate enough that the police equine unit at the time, found and recovered her horse, said 'I never thought I would see him again.  I now have an insight into what it would be like to lose a child.'   
So, Harper-gal - are you mortified by all of these normal, everyday type of peoples' opinions?

PapaFrita - your term 'you have GOT to be joking!' when I am referring to a very personal, terrible, emotional and pyschological lifetime experience leaves me 'horrified' also.  Please look at the more general spectrum - I was not referring to the idea that there are not worse things that could happen, but in the context of the loss of a horse - I've heard it said many, many times, to have your horse stolen is most owners worst nightmare.


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## LynnWalker (3 January 2010)

Debsam - I totally agree with everything you have said. Toby was stolen on 1/6/06 - and it is indescribable how I feel not knowing if he is alive or not. And yes I would also agree ( as a mum!!!!) it was almost like losing my child. He is part of our family, he is gone who knows where, my whole family were and still are affected by him not being here.
This feeling will never go away until he is found and we will always continue to look for him - my heart goes out to you you that this happened to your horse.


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## *hic* (3 January 2010)

[ QUOTE ]
A few of these subsequent 'comments'  . . . . yadda yadda yadda. . . . . . . 

[/ QUOTE ]

Reminding people to check their security arrangements, freezemarking registrations, etc is valuable advice.


What you are doing is SCAREMONGERING. 

Just stop to THINK about how the world has changed since your horse was stolen - not that you've claimed it was plaited I think - no-one in their right mind would plait a horse for identification. A simple cameraphone photo of the gateway and location together with a photo of the horse would do the job far more quickly and accurately.


I'm sorry for your loss - both that of your horse and of your mother. However, as someone who has experienced the loss of a horse, the loss of child and the loss of her mother and father (admittedly all by death, not theft) I would be interested to know whether you would claim that the loss of your horse was worse than the loss of your mother.


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## dorani (3 January 2010)

Janet George... you are on here yet your forum is closed unless folk pay I note? hypocrisy?


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## Serenity087 (3 January 2010)

I still cannot believe you are honestly trying to compare the theft of an animal to the death of a child.

Some people are completely out of this world!

I'm afraid I didn't pay too much attention to your post because about 99% of it is emotive language trying to score pity for your situation.

On the off chance I did have a horse stolen, I can think of a million and one things more traumatic than losing an easily replaceable animal, and losing a child is one of them.


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## netposse (3 January 2010)

This horse may or may not have been marked for something in the future, and the horse could have gotten the mane that way on its own (ours do). However, there could be something going on here that is not natural. In the US we have seen all kinds of odd occurences before a horse disappears. We don't discount anything unusual for a horse owner. Our retired horses are in the field so it is usualy for our horses to get their manes like this from time to time. But, it may not be usual for you. Just keep an eye out. Put signs up like the WHOA signs we have here to warn people that your horses have identification and are traceable, even if they do not have ID. 

View signs here: http://www.netposse.com/merch/paypal.htm


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## DebbieCG (3 January 2010)

Thanks Tubbytoby, I know we are both speaking from a mutually understood indescribable place and my heart also goes out to you in your search for Toby - hopefully you will and can find him.

Jemima_too - I am trying to keep my composure after reading your reply - it is obvious you have not read through all the replies here as you would clearly see it appears to be Harper_gal who initially started the whole 'scaremongering' aspect of this post with her fairly rude first reply to the initial poster.  The initial poster was just seeking advice on her concern to what appeared to be a plait in her horse's mane, whether by wind or otherwise.  And all reasonable viewpoints would indicate that this is not something to be concerned about.  Therefore no 'scaremongering' going on.

However, being a reasonable person I would have to admit that I probably posted my personal experience of horse theft when it would have been better to do so on a different, more relevant post - something like 'How has your horse being stolen affected your life?'.  I am not being sarcastic by the way.  I think there are about 3 people who have posted on this thread who have had the awful experience of their horse being stolen (by the way I am not saying that is the worst thing to happen in the world) but all three of us know it is on a different dimension and therefore it is always hard to see comments that are dismissive of horse theft - hence why I posted my viewpoint.

I am sorry for your losses too.  I have also experienced other losses in my family, as well as the loss of my mother.  I think it would be universally agreed though that there is no greater loss than the loss of a child.

However, as you have asked, I will give you my honest answer to your question - I do regard, in respect of the overall effect that it has caused throughout my life, that the loss of my horse, because he was stolen (and did not die naturally or by accident) has been worse than the loss of my mother.  I think my mother would understand what i have said, since she loved our horse as much as I did - his wellbeing was our main concern.  To complicate things, my mother's longterm health was very much affected by our horse being snatched and spirited out of our lives (her health would not have been affected if we had lost him naturally).  What it seemed to do though was break our spirit in life - the fruitless searching, the injustice of it, we received hoax calls - it was a desparate period and as a teenager at the time, I was witness to the nastier side of humanity, visiting where possible any horse markets and sales, hardly anyone would help us.  In the end my parents did not have the time or money to keep on searching.  The fear of whether to advertise that he was stolen or not, in case he was 'hot' property and may have been killed instead. Well, it was all soul destroying. And this is something I never usually mention - one or two month's after my horse was stolen, we had a phone call to say my wonderful first pony, who we had loaned, had died suddenly from a heart attack in his field (he was only about 13).  We couldn't even cry or grieve about our pony (which normally would have been a great loss and shock) as we were so distraught after our horse had just been stolen, and not knowing whether our horse was alive or not or what was happening to him, or whether he was suffering, and I will always remember hearing my mother say about my first pony who had just died "that's alright, at least we know what has happened to him."

I will now refrain from posting any more replies on this thread, as in all fairness this is not the right post to do so on and I am at fault on that account, but not for 'scaremongering'.  Viewpoints are just that, but rudeness can be avoided.


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## cruiseline (3 January 2010)

Horse can and do get stolen, even when they are safely (you would think) tucked away in their stables!!!!!!!!!!!!

Any changes, plaits, twists ETC should be taken seriously, very seriously, unless you want to join the I'VE HAD MY HORSE STOLEN group.

STOLEN 29TH/30TH DECEMBER 2009 FROM MANOR FARM STABLES, CHARLTON VILLAGE, MIDDLESEX

BAILEY:SKEWBALD TOBIANO, 8 MONTH OLD FILLY, 4 WHITE SOCKS, NO FACE MARKINGS, WHITE "SPLOGE" ON HER WITHERS-WITH ABOUT 2-3" OF WHITE MANE. APPROX 29-30" HIGH, MICROCHIPPED-958000001672766, WAS CLIPPED AT THE BEGINNING OF NOVEMBER-SO HER COAT IS STARTING TO GROW THROUGH.

TINKERBELL: FEW SPOT APPALOOSA, 2 YEAR OLD FILLY, PINK SPOTTED NOSE, APPALOOSA MARKING AROUND HER EYES, TEATS AND BOTTOM, 4 BLACK SPOTS ON HER OFFSIDE HINDQUARTERS, APPROX 31-33" HIGH, NOT MICROCHIPPED, HAS BEEN CLIPPED MID DECEMBER-EVERYWHERE WAS CLIPPED APART FROM 3 LEGS (HER FRONT NEARSIDE ONE IS PARTIALLY CLIPPED) AND HALF HER FACE, STRIPED HOOVES.

BOTH WERE STOLEN BETWEEN 7PM AND 7AM ON 29TH/30TH DECEMBER FROM THEIR STABLES. THEY BOTH HAD MATCHING NAVY BLUE COMBO RUGS ON MADE BY DINKY RUGS. BAILEY HAD A NAVY FLEECE ON MADE BY DINKY RUGS AND TINKERBELL HAD A RED RUG FLEECE WITH GOLD BINDING

CRIME REFERENCE NUMBER IS SL0910444

ANY INFORMATION PLEASE CONTACT ANY OF THE FOLLOWING NUMBERS - SURREY POLICE ON 0845 125 2222 - CLAIRE ON 07870570586 - DANIEL ON 07738826953


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## Tinseltoes (3 January 2010)

Who in their right mind would tag a horse for all to see before stealing it????? Makes no sense at all!!!


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## DebbieCG (3 January 2010)

Correction - i hope this will be the last time I post on this thread.

In reply to Harper_gal - are you for real or are you trying to provoke?  You should read things more carefully, then you wouldn't misunderstand and TWIST the viewpoints being made.

There is one thing I would agree with you though, yes some people are completely out of this world, you certainly got that right.

Perhaps I could send you a copy of the documentary 'The Horse Detectives'.  No doubt you would have something sophisticated and erudite to say about all of the self-pitying people filmed on it.

I haven't really met a genuine horse owner who has ever expressed that their much loved animal is easily replaceable - why on earth are you on this forum?  Actually, I hope you don't reply as it would only be shock tactics - you certainly have a way of expressing on a low level.


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## netposse (3 January 2010)

Yes, they do. And in the USA not only are they being stolen out of their stalls, in one of our states they are being butchered for their meat as well. There have been 22 horses in one area of FL that have been found butchered, several while in their stalls. 

In the USA, through our research we have found the following to be the places that horses are stolen from in this order:
1. Pasture
2. Barn
3. Public event


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## netposse (3 January 2010)

Many of the things that dishonest criminal minds think do not make sense to honest people. I have unfortunately learned how to think like a criminal at times. I never underestimate their creativity in ways to make victims out of trusting people. And yes, horses and property are sometimes staked out and marked in various ways.


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## russianhorse (3 January 2010)

I wasn't going to put anything here, but I have to say that its not very nice to mock and ridicule people on this forum who are genuinely seeking advice or sharing their experiences

Surely this isnt what the forum is for.......


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## DebbieCG (3 January 2010)

[ QUOTE ]
I yawned because it's all mass hysteria.  

And for the record, no, I've never seen one of these plaits.

However, I have a good friend who found her mare with it's vagina between it's back legs and it's vulva slashed open.  It wasn't reported to the police because the vet decided it was a kick, and with no medical evidence to prove she'd been assaulted, the police weren't interested.

So I do know what it's like to be genuinely scared for my horses!  Plaits?  Pssh.  Try finding your horse half dead from blood loss. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Harper_gal - One of your more recent comments after the above was along the lines that horses were easily replaceable.  Therefore why would you be genuinely scared for your horses if this were the case - or is it that horses are easily replaceable if they are not yours and it is not you who has to replace them?  Very curious.  Also, you have posted on a thread about favourite horses and posted a picture of yourself looking very happy on your favourite pony. Very confusing if horses are so easily replaceable in your opinion, why bother having a favourite?


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## Tinseltoes (3 January 2010)

Harper_gal,
Im sorry but my horse is not replacable,he is my pride and joy and goold help if he was stolen,Id be crying endlessy.
So I dont see how you can say a horse is replacable.


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## DebbieCG (3 January 2010)

poohbear59 - exactly my point, to most horse owners their horse in not replaceable.  Perhaps you could direct this query to Harper_gal, as she made the comment 'easily replaceable animal' and twisted the context of the loss of one's horse if it were stolen.


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## tashpritty (3 January 2010)

[ QUOTE ]
Happy New Year Everyone.. 

I have just come back from putting my horse to bed tonight, when a plait was found in another horses mane! Looked a bit like a dread lock but was an obvious plait! We believe that she could of been ear marked for being stolen, so this is a warning.. She also has a foal at foot and seems untouched at present... 

Thanks for reading 

[/ QUOTE ]

ok so from the first post made why has it turned into everybody ranting at everybody.
whether you agree or disagree could a simple post saying thanks for the heads up, no need to express any opinions on what you believe to be scare mongering

if you are greatful for the heads up say so.
if like me i dont personally agree with plaits meaning they are 'tagged' then there is no need to comment imo

i dont really think the first point was inteded for people to argue over what they believe, cant we not all just act like responsible adults?


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## DebbieCG (3 January 2010)

You are quite right TishTashTosh, but easier to say if you haven't had the experience.  When you see irresponsible comments being made by a few and a subject is close to your heart, it is actually quite difficult to hold back all the time from commenting.


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## *hic* (3 January 2010)

Was your stolen horse freeze-marked or microchipped?


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## LynnWalker (3 January 2010)

My horse was microchipped - but to my eternal regret not freezemarked. i remember thinking about the 'best' option - and I so regret choosing the microchip.
I know some will argue that he is identifiable, and that is true - but first we have to find him and FM's are obviously easier to see. Anyone can read a few numbers and letters - not everyone can scan for a chip!
My new lad is FM'd - and although I love him, he will never replace Toby.


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## Serenity087 (3 January 2010)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Happy New Year Everyone.. 

I have just come back from putting my horse to bed tonight, when a plait was found in another horses mane! Looked a bit like a dread lock but was an obvious plait! We believe that she could of been ear marked for being stolen, so this is a warning.. She also has a foal at foot and seems untouched at present... 

Thanks for reading 

[/ QUOTE ]

ok so from the first post made why has it turned into everybody ranting at everybody.
whether you agree or disagree could a simple post saying thanks for the heads up, no need to express any opinions on what you believe to be scare mongering

if you are greatful for the heads up say so.
if like me i dont personally agree with plaits meaning they are 'tagged' then there is no need to comment imo

i dont really think the first point was inteded for people to argue over what they believe, cant we not all just act like responsible adults? 

[/ QUOTE ]

The whole problem is the posts themselves are utterly un-necessary!

As I have said, the system for forewarning horse owners on real issues is clogged up by reports of these wind knots.  

REAL notifications of REAL attempted thefts are getting ignored!

I attempted to post about an attempted break in at a yard near me, and it's already swamped by a million and one mythical posts about plaits.
No plaits were found, just a little scrote actually breaking into the yard 
	
	
		
		
	


	





I don't think it's at all un-necessary to call out these posts as fake.  After a year of looking for eastern europeans I'm dead sick of another year of posting about plaits.  It's a scam.  Most the users who have seen plaits have less than 20-40 posts.  They joined with no other intention than scaremongering.
Then, once word is out, our fears for our horses take it from there.

I'd have been more polite were it a post about a van/lorry parked outside a yard.  Or a breakin on a nearby farm.  But these plait things are tiring, tedious and a waste of everyones time.


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## JanetGeorge (3 January 2010)

[ QUOTE ]
Janet George... you are on here yet your forum is closed unless folk pay I note? hypocrisy? 

[/ QUOTE ]

What's hypocritical about it.  I participate in a LOT of forums other than my own, and subscribe to two other than my own.

This forum often reminds me what I LIKE about a subscription forum (other than the fact that mine raises a lot of money each year for EMW through the subscriptions!!)  We get very few trolls or trouble-makers - and they are FAR easier to dispose of if they DO appear!

Horse &amp; Hound is a big publishing house and this forum pays its way through advertising.  I can't afford to maintain a dedicated server for a busy forum AND put hours into managing it.  I don't want a forum plastered in advertising - and neither do my members.  No one is forced to join - it's a matter of choice!


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## DebbieCG (3 January 2010)

Jemima_too - my stolen horse, Ballymoss, was not microchipped as this was not in place in the early 1980s or as you put it 'how the world has changed since your horse was stolen'.  It wasn't actually the 1800s!  Man had landed on the Moon at least a decade earlier by then, and Madonna was and still sometimes is top of the charts!  You've heard of Duran Duran and Spandau Ballet, haven't you? - they are still around or have made come backs since the early 1980s.

And no, my horse was not freezbranded then as it was something that was just beginning to happen and although alot of owners did get there horses branded back then, there were worries about it as it was not a proven theft deterrent at that time and there was no legislation about it. However, I would say freezemarking appears to be the most proven theft deterent and it is very advisable to get it done. 

My mother campaigned at the time to get passports for horses, but of course this was before the time the EU stepped in.

By the way, Ballymoss (16.2hh T/B chestnut gelding, 12 years old at the time) was stolen along with 3 other freezebranded T/B horses from a secluded country lane yard in Hertfordshire in March 1981.  The gate and stables were padlocked at night but the thieves (obviously professionals) who must have been watching the yard for a while, broke all the padlocks on the stables and gate the night they were taken.  The three horses who were freezemarked were subsequently dumped in a field within a week in Wiltshire.  Ballymoss was not with them.  We never saw him again.


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## DebbieCG (3 January 2010)

Actually, there were no mobile phones, Internet or Horsewatch back then, but we did advertise Ballymoss as being stolen in the Horse &amp; Hound magazine.  I think it was around 1983 that the famous racehorse, Shergar, was kidnapped and made headline news - he was never found or has his true fate been discovered, but there were many theories, poor horse.

And that is one of my points about the trauma of horse theft - it affects innocent people and more importantly, innocent animals.


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## DebbieCG (3 January 2010)

netposse - thank you for your input here - I do follow your extremely valid and helpful website, thankfully there are websites and organisations such as yourselves and Horsewatch.


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## Hedgewitch13 (3 January 2010)

The thing is all of this good advice has been said time and time again in loads of other 'my horse has been plaited therefore it must being tagged to be stolen' posts. 

To keep posting about the same stuff over and over again is getting very tiresome. Yes I know I don't need to read them but I do in case someone actually comes up with a grain of truth... so far none have.

I will say again funny how none of the horses 'tagged' had pulled manes, just unpulled, untidy manes. Sigh.


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## PapaFrita (3 January 2010)

[ QUOTE ]
Harper_gal,
Im sorry but my horse is not replacable,he is my pride and joy and goold help if he was stolen,Id be crying endlessy.
So I dont see how you can say a horse is replacable. 

[/ QUOTE ]
Losing a horse is indeed devastating, and PF is unique and irreplaceable to ME. In practical terms I'm sure there are horses just as good and better than she is and possibly even more suited to my needs. That is irrelevant. I love her to bits. Losing her would be horrendous, but not even close to losing my sister or mother.


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## royaldrift (3 January 2010)

Harper-Gal, I don't post on here very often and can't remember when I registered but it was at least a couple of years ago.

The OP who started this thread is a friend of mine and the horse that she was referring to is my mare and foal.  I can categorically state that she was not scaremongering merely trying to help somebody that she was concerned about.

To the poster who referred to these horses as replacable (I can't be bothered to look to be honest) I can tell you for nothing that I love my mare with a passion and that she is utterly irreplacable, I would be completely devastated if she was stolen. No I wouldn't put it on a par with losing one of my children but it doesn't make it any less devastating.

I'm quite saddened at how unsympathetic people on here can be when I have received nothing but kindness from RL friends and associates.  Some of you have clearly never suffered a loss of any kind.

I've moved my mare and foal which has caused an awful lot of stress and upset both to me and my lovely YO but whether these plaits (and it was a plait not a windblown knot) mean anything or not I'm not prepared to take that risk with my beloved horses.


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## Serenity087 (4 January 2010)

Mikoletta, I think you misunderstand my post.  I did not accuse the OP of being one of the scammers, despite her low post count.

I did state that the scammers have done their work - we're now hysterical.

I'm saddened that you felt you had to move your mare, as this is exactly what people want out of you.  But I do understand your motives, don't get me wrong.  I love my girl to bits, but at the end of the day horses aren't stolen for slaughter.  They are sold, often to another owner who'll love them just as much as you.

And, for those who really don't believe I have a clue - I really do.  I just don't post all about it on internet forums stirring up people who have nothing to worry about.


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## DebbieCG (4 January 2010)

[ QUOTE ]
Mikoletta, I think you misunderstand my post.  I did not accuse the OP of being one of the scammers, despite her low post count.

I did state that the scammers have done their work - we're now hysterical.

I'm saddened that you felt you had to move your mare, as this is exactly what people want out of you.  But I do understand your motives, don't get me wrong.  I love my girl to bits, but at the end of the day horses aren't stolen for slaughter.  They are sold, often to another owner who'll love them just as much as you.

And, for those who really don't believe I have a clue - I really do.  I just don't post all about it on internet forums stirring up people who have nothing to worry about. 

[/ QUOTE ]


Harper-gal - have you seen the website Missing Horses on Loan's Homepage?  No-one is trying to scaremonger - just give facts and promote awareness, something that you apparently cannot grasp.  The following is an extract from their home page:

'Horses and ponies go missing on loan every day, from all over the country, this is not the first case nor will it be the last. Even with a loan agreement there seems to be a loophole that some unscrupulous people will use to their advantage without any thought for the horse. Sometimes the horses are found and can be returned to the rightful owner, unless they end up with a fate of Lady and Gwendolyn.

This site is dedicated to the memory of Lady and Gwendolyn, two well loved horse's from Norfolk that were sold on by their loanee through Melton Mowbray Horse Sales, and then sadly ended up in an abattoir in Cheshire.

Lady and Gwendolyn were advertised on loan in Norfolk and a lady answered the advert and took the mares as companions to her son's shetland pony on the 3rd October 2008. A BHS Loan agreement was signed, the loanee used an address in King's Lynn. The loanee kept in contact by text until the end of November then the messages stopped.

Lady and Gwens owner decided to "google" her number and found she was a"dealer" and immediately became suspicious, she "googled" the loanees name and found that she was wanted in connection with missing on loan horses by Essex Police. The matter was reported to the police with the help of Essex Police and a statement was made on January 6th 2009, on the 20th January 2009 she found out from the abattoir in Cheshire that they had been slaughtered after being sold through Melton Mowbray Market with illegal passports, the horses had been registered under different names and using another false name and address. This happened even though one of the horses was freezemarked and micro-chipped!

As horse and pony owners we feel extremely let down by the Horse Passport Societies and  by creating this site we will work together to raise awareness of the loophole that has been overlooked and so these poor, loved mare's death's have not been taken in vain, and to stop this happening again.'


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## hairycob (4 January 2010)

Mikoletta, would you &amp; your friends have thought twice about it if you hadn't read all the threads on "plaits"? You'd probably have said "blasted tangles", undid it &amp; slept peacefully at night. Please be reassured - I have 3 horses &amp; 2 (the ones with longer manes) get these all the time &amp; I am sure that thieves would not be remotely interested in one of them because, precious as she is to me, stealing for meat money isn't worth the effort. If your horses aren't freezemarked get it done as soon as you can it's the best thing you can do to protect them.
Although even one stolen horse is too many, most people think that the number of thefts is far higher than it actually is. As some one has already said you are far more likely to have equipment/tack stolen so get that marked too while you are in the mood to think about security.


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## royaldrift (4 January 2010)

My horse is freezemarked, both of them are micro chipped and my tack is kept at home. I've always taken security very seriously and am well aware that overall not many horses are stolen in relation to the fear of the crime.

That said, people on this thread have had horses stolen, some never to be reunited with their owners which is just awful.  I don't want my horse to go to another home to be loved by someone else ~ I want her with me where she belongs.

I had hardly read anything about blooming plaits before this happened, I've read far more since, but I am utterly sick and tired of people telling me that it wasn't a plait.  Three people looked at my mare, two of us are in our 40's and our yard owner is in her 60's ~ she has been around horses since her teens and my friend and I have had horses for 20 odd years each that makes a combined experience of around 80 years, please don't anyone try and tell us what we saw or didn't see.  And no, it couldn't have been children.


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## Judziah (4 January 2010)

I can't believe how vicious this thread is!!!

It's a good thing that the original poster noticed a change...because bottom line with horse theft is simple - STAY VIGILANT!!!!!!!! 

If you have owned a horse with a long mane that's lived in the same field for 10 years and it's never had a plait appear then you're very lucky, they're a bitch to remove at times....if one day you go down and notice that suddenly your horse's beautiful knot-free mane has a clear plait in it then notify the police, tell your neighbours and start varying the times you visit your horses...and most of all...UNPLAIT YOUR HORSE!!!!!!!!!!!

The 'plait tag' started because the most commonly stolen horses are those who live out...they're usually cob-types or coloured...as such, are usually kept 'traditionally', ie. unpulled manes...many of these horses will have had 'dreadlocks' and plaits before but it's usually something the owner picks up on after the horse has gone...

...after all, how often do you ignore a plastic bag snagged in a hedge? It appears, the next day your horse is stolen...the bag must be a notification! This was the biggest owner frightener a few years back...every plastic bag had people terrified!!! 

And THAT is why people 'yawn' at the subject...they are not saying that the loss of a horse is minor...they are saying that it is bordering on scaremongering. That is not to say they don't care or that the original poster is intentionally trying to cause people distress...it just means they've heard it all before...and some people are just tactless. 

If you have no evidence that it is a genuine 'tag', then do a little research online, read forums...it's the same with internet viruses...Before you forward that email of another warning, consider if it's genuine or just someone with an overactive imagination or a big heap of paranoia!! 

My pony gets plaits all the time. He has long but thin hair and it plaits beautifully in one spot by itself...so much so I used to scream at my sister thinking she was doing it...when she moved overseas and it still happened, I realised it was happening naturally.

If you want people to be warned, then give them proven information....otherwise it's just the story of the boy who cried wolf....people stop listening.


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## DebbieCG (4 January 2010)

Judziah, not quite sure exactly what you are trying to say, as you begin with good job original poster noticed a change etc and then end with if you want people to be warned, then give them proven information....

As far as they could, the original poster and then Mikoletta have given as much information as they could, obviously about a genuine concern that they had with the intention to make people aware who may have horses in that particular area that something a little out of the ordinary seemed to have occured.

This does not mean that any horses are being or will be stolen, just a take care note really.

The reason I first looked at this post was because of the heading and after reading the original poster's comments I did not think for one moment about scaremongering.  The only reason I inputed on this thread was because of the extremely unkind and dismissive comments that I was reading - normally I don't usually post.


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## _HP_ (4 January 2010)

Please.........if you find another plait can you take  photo of it. I think the main problem here is that there seems to be no photo's of actual plaits/tags in horses mane's. All I have seen are wind tangles like in the photo's I've added to the tread.


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## netposse (4 January 2010)

I have a question about your identification markings. In the US a freeze mark and a freeze brand are put on with the same technique but are actually different in look and registration. One is a trademarked ID that can only be put on the neck of the horse by certified technicians. The other is a brand, usually on the hip or shoulder that anyone can design and do themselves. Which mark do you have? I am assuming that you have the international 134 khz microchip as well.

I was so glad to hear that you do have your horses marked. All of mine have been since we found Idaho. Before her theft none of them were and we didn't even know people were stealing horses.

They all have freeze marks, freeze brands, hoof brands and microchips. Two of them have lip tattoos and they are gaited horses. The TB Protection Society did the tattoos for us so that I could see how they were put on the horse.

I am not saying everyone needs to do what we did. My situation is unique in that I am sought after as an expert in the field of theft and ID for consultations, speaking engagements, and TV/print news. I am like a sponge, learning everything that I can about theft and the many thoughts surrounding the crime. 

I applaud you for being proactive in protecting your horses. The only thing I see that is missing is a sign stating that your horses and equipment have permanent ID. We do sell them here to raise funds for the organization but that is not the reason we developed them. We did it because a sign is your first and best line of defense against theft according to law enforcement officials. 

For instance, if you have a burglar alarm in your house in the US, there is a small sign down by the driveway that states that fact. It is meant to make a prospective thief leave your house alone for fear of being caught. In our case the sign is meant to do the same by stating that the horses and equipment carry identification that can make them traceable. Our sign also has our logo and contact info on it so it implies that the owner has knowledge about theft and would be more involved in finding the horse should it disappear. Thieves prefer the people who are clueless or ill prepared so their job is easier.

We were revisited twice before we put up our signs along our fence lines. No one has bothered us in the past four years. If they do, unlike the time in 1997, we are prepared to find our horses this time.

We are trailriders so when we travel in our trailer to a park we take our signs with us and put them in the truck in full few in hopes that our truck, trailer and equipment will be there when we return. Yes, I have had cases filed with us where all of the above mentioned were gone when the owner returned. One person returned just in time to watch their truck and trailer pass them by as they were returning from a ride. There was no cell phone service so there was nothing they could do at that moment but drop their jaws with shock.

I hope this helps.


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## brighteyes (5 January 2010)

Seriously, it's a shame you haven't got a picture of the plait.  It might shut a few people up - although it equally might not


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## royaldrift (6 January 2010)

My friend had it on her phone, can't imagine that it would be very clear on here though.  Wish I had camera with me but you never do when you need it do you


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## netposse (7 January 2010)

Is your freezemark on the neck? Don't regret microchipping your horse. That will be his proof of ownership when we find him. I do think that a visible ID with a microchip covers both ends. I am not sure what you mean about a freezemark. In the US a freezemark is on the neck and is a series of symbols that are translated into an ID number. Is it the same in the UK? A freeze brand can be anywhere. Which do you have?


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## The_snoopster (7 January 2010)

Freezebrands in the uk can be done anywhere but tend to be either under the saddle area or shoulder i have seen some on the neck also, my mare who is coloured as been done to one side of her tail.
The symbols are a mixture of numbers and letters and have 3 or four symbols in a line or in a square depending on the area of the horse that was marked.


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## DebbieCG (7 January 2010)

Just to re-iterate the importance of micro-chipping and freeze-marking in general, (and also showing warning signs that this is in place) the following is from the News Items of the Missing Horses on Loan website:

Missing loan horse court case dropped

18 November, 2004
The Crown Prosecution Service has discontinued its case against a Wiltshire woman who was due to appear in court over an allegedly stolen loan horse because the horse was not microchipped or freeze-marked.

Thames Valley Police and Horsewatch in Oxfordshire have been investigating the case of a 15.2hh palomino gelding known as Ieuan who went missing in 1991 while on loan.

Owner Susan Peter from Bewdley, Worcs, was told that her former eventer had died while on loan to Dilys van Tromp, who was then based in Kelmscott, Oxon, but has since lived in Gloucestershire and now runs Brokerswood Farm riding school, Trowbridge, Wilts.

However, Ieuan, now in his 20s, "returned" in autumn 2003, when he was bought by the area's Horsewatch co-ordinator, who realised that she had investigated his disappearance more than a decade before. Dilys van Tromp, was charged with theft in summer 2004.

But the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) has discontinued the case at a stage when it was about to be listed for the Crown Court, because of difficulties associated with identifying the horse. Despite the opinion of an equine vet, the CPS concluded that since the animal was not freeze-marked or microchipped at the time it went missing, it could not categorically be said to be Ieuan.

WPC Sue Burns from Thames Valley Police, who has been heading up the enquiry, says: "This is very frustrating and has wide-ranging implications for all owners who might be relying on vaccination certificates or passport diagrams to identify their horse if stolen.

"The message to owners is clearly that all equines need to be protected with individual identification."

Despite the CPS's decision, WPC Burns would still like to hear from anyone who might have purchased this horse between 1991 and 1994 (tel: 01608 648715) or e-mail: Sue.Burns@thamesvalley.pnn.police.uk

This news story was first published in Horse &amp; Hound (18 November '04)


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## netposse (7 January 2010)

Excellent point!


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## netposse (7 January 2010)

Thanks for the explanation! After reading your reply I did a little research and found that the mark you have is basically what we call a farm freeze brand. Anyone can put the brand on, we did our own, and you can make it up with symbols, letters or numbers. It would be nice if everyone had them for visible ID and theft deterrent. We custom ordered our brand so all of our horses have the same brand registered to our farm. It is unlikly but a freeze brand can be altered and in the US is practically impossible to trace once the horse is out of the state of registry. That is why I have microchips too. Is there one national registry that all brands are in in the UK?


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## DebbieCG (7 January 2010)

Am not entirely sure but I think there are about two main freezemarking companies in the UK. Perhaps another poster can confirm.

Am not aware of any horse owners putting their own brand or marks on, just the companies.

There is one central database for stolen horses and ponies (stolenhorseregister.com), but they are only listed if you have a crime reference number and the owner or person in charge of the stolen horse sends the details to the Register.  

There are some different organisations/websites that may list certain stolen horses/ponies or certain breeds (Shetland A1 news includes stolen shetland ponies on its website).

I think there are several authorities that you can obtain your equine passport from which is now compulsory for all equines in the UK to have (Horse Passport Agency is one I think).  Again, perheps another poster could list them, or maybe there is only one now? Not sure.

I believe, due to EU regulations,It is now compulsory for all foals to be microchipped at a certain age.

I believe the above info is correct, but perhaps any other posters could elaborate if not entirely correct.


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## netposse (7 January 2010)

It seems you guys have the same problem we have here in the US, one registry. Our government is trying to develope one and is pushing it but there is much opposition for a multitude of reasons. 

Thanks for the information. Looks like I have more research to do. My learning curve never stops curving!


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## DebbieCG (7 January 2010)

Just copied this from Horse Passport Agency front page:

Horse Passport Legislation...
The Law, Horse Passport Regulations (2004) requires all horses, ponies and donkeys in the UK to have a passport, and for that passport to be kept up to date. The enforcement of the legislation ensures the continued availability of veterinary medicines such as Bute. These medicines would otherwise be withdrawn with serious welfare implications for horses.


News...

2010 Fees - 26/11/2009

Despite the increase in VAT our passport fee will remain at £21 in 2010. There will be no increase to the fees charged by our On Line Services (change of ownership £12.50 and amendments £10) and updating microchip details will continue to be free.

Change... [Read More]

Microchipping Now A Requirement For A New Passport - 01/07/2009

From the 1st July 2009 Directive EC 504/2008 requires owners to have their equine microchipped before applying for a passport. If your animal is already microchipped you will still need a veterinary surgeon to verify that information on your passport application form.


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## DebbieCG (7 January 2010)

Also, very importantly, there are Horsewatch groups around the UK which are listed by the UK Horsewatch Alliance website.  When a pony or horse is stolen (or with any equine equipment etc. type of crime) most owners seek help and advice from their nearest Horsewatch group. (Copied paragraph below is from Horsewatch Alliance website front page):    

UK Horsewatch Alliance is group of people from Horsewatch groups all over the country, who will meet at regular intervals to work together to provide a network of information and support to combat equine crime. <font color="blue">  </font> 




In my opinion, however, there are still more changes that need to be made at Government level to help prevent horsetheft.


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## fruity (7 January 2010)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Happy New Year Everyone.. 

I have just come back from putting my horse to bed tonight, when a plait was found in another horses mane! Looked a bit like a dread lock but was an obvious plait! We believe that she could of been ear marked for being stolen, so this is a warning.. She also has a foal at foot and seems untouched at present... 

Thanks for reading 

[/ QUOTE ]

ok so from the first post made why has it turned into everybody ranting at everybody.
whether you agree or disagree could a simple post saying thanks for the heads up, no need to express any opinions on what you believe to be scare mongering

if you are greatful for the heads up say so.
if like me i dont personally agree with plaits meaning they are 'tagged' then there is no need to comment imo

i dont really think the first point was inteded for people to argue over what they believe, cant we not all just act like responsible adults? 

[/ QUOTE ]

I totally agree with you on this. I posted on the dog forum the other day and got my head bitten off for breeding from my terrier,only asked if anyone new of a decent stud jack russell out there !!!!! some people get very personal for no reason,i hate people like this.


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## Cuffey (7 January 2010)

This plait reported in my area--a couple of weeks later a pony's tail hacked off in the same field (no hair found)--ponies now very nervous
10 Tails similarly hacked off in 3 incidents about a year ago in the same area.


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## fruity (7 January 2010)

I would say that looks like a wind tangle more than a plait,my welsh d gets them all the time and he is out 24/7. If you look you can see the tangle on the left of that developing into something similar. Know it doesn't explain the tail fiasco though,sorry to here about that.


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## Tinseltoes (8 January 2010)

My section A gets those tangles all the time and theyre aweful to get out.At first I thought someone had been messing about,but considering she isnt people friendly,I just took it out and some more appeared eventually,so I knew it was the weather.She had one two days ago.


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## *hic* (8 January 2010)

[ QUOTE ]
This plait reported in my area--a couple of weeks later a pony's tail hacked off in the same field (no hair found)--ponies now very nervous
10 Tails similarly hacked off in 3 incidents about a year ago in the same area.







[/ QUOTE ]


Does it not cross your mind to wonder why anyone would bother spending time and effort "plaiting" a horse when in less time they could have had a knife across the tail and be gone with it?

Three horses near here at an animal rescue had their tails cut off - I'm assuming you mean just the hair and not through the bone - by the owner as she was offered money for them. If someone near you had similarly been offered money then they would have just taken the hair and run.


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## Serenity087 (8 January 2010)

We had a tail hacked off.  We eventually found it behind a water trough in the stable


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## bailey14 (8 January 2010)

[ QUOTE ]
 I yawned because it's all mass hysteria. 

And for the record, no, I've never seen one of these plaits.

However, I have a good friend who found her mare with it's vagina between it's back legs and it's vulva slashed open. It wasn't reported to the police because the vet decided it was a kick, and with no medical evidence to prove she'd been assaulted, the police weren't interested.

So I do know what it's like to be genuinely scared for my horses! Plaits? Pssh. Try finding your horse half dead from blood loss. 



[/ QUOTE ] 

I have to agree with Harper_Gal.  I think this is mass hysteria.  If people are worried about horses being stolen then for goodness sake GET THEM FREEZEMARKED its not rocket science.  This is a visible deterent unlike microchipping which is next to useless.  You might not want your horse 'marked' as it might look 'ugly' but if your horse is stolen you would feel devastated and may never see it again.  Stolen horses can end up slaughtered or sold on to home after home.  Would you rather that than splash out £50 or less for a freezemark and five minutes of slight dicomfort for your horse?  Come on folks.  Lets stop these stupid stories and get real.


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## Cuffey (8 January 2010)

[ QUOTE ]



Does it not cross your mind to wonder why anyone would bother spending time and effort "plaiting" a horse when in less time they could have had a knife across the tail and be gone with it?

Three horses near here at an animal rescue had their tails cut off - I'm assuming you mean just the hair and not through the bone - by the owner as she was offered money for them. If someone near you had similarly been offered money then they would have just taken the hair and run. 

[/ QUOTE ]

A picture was requested--a picture posted

I have received a number of reports of plaiting within a small geographical area from experienced owners--most are just puzzled--it is a new phenomen to them--most have kept horses and or ponies for 30 years. 
 As a Horsewatch Co-ordinator I have been in the position of trying to re-assure  upset owners that their horses are very unlikely to be stolen but just to remain vigilant

I have owned native ponies with long manes and never had wind tangles like that.

The ''sarcastic'' posters on this thread need to have some understanding and compassion for those owners who have got upset about this and been accused of scaremongering
I sincerely hope they never experience having their horse stolen or interfered with but perhaps then their attitudes may change


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## bailey14 (8 January 2010)

I know your comment wasn't aimed at me (well not completely anyway) but surely if you are a Horsewatch Co-ordinator isn't your stance that people should get their horses freezemarked.  I find it incredible (and this is getting at no one in particular) that people will spend a fortune on the latest saddle, bridle, bit, feed, supplement, rug, etc, etc but not have the simple common sense to freezemark their horses.  So if I were you rather than blast people for stating their opinions  when you say: T  [ QUOTE ]
The ''sarcastic'' posters on this thread need to have some understanding and compassion for those owners who have got upset about this and been accused of scaremongering
I sincerely hope they never experience having their horse stolen or interfered with but perhaps then their attitudes may change  




[/ QUOTE ] how about instead realising that these people (me included) have these other peoples interests at heart.

The results speak for themselves:
So far to date Freezemark 100% recovery record.  I think Farmkeys is 97% but don't quote me on that.


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## *hic* (8 January 2010)

[ QUOTE ]
As a Horsewatch Co-ordinator I have been in the position of trying to re-assure upset owners that their horses are very unlikely to be stolen but just to remain vigilant

[/ QUOTE ]

In that case I would have thought you'd be pretty damned fed up of all the "Warning plaits found: horse about to be stolen" posts that are appearing on here and winding up the people who then phone you! THAT is what makes me so mad - the scaremongering and upsetting people who have no need to have been upset - and causing clogging up of systems such as Horsewatch have in place for reporting of real issues.


In any case I thought that the Horsewatch take on it was that there was no evidence of "plaited" horses subsequently having been stolen?


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## DebbieCG (8 January 2010)

I'm sure Harper_gal and Jemima_too &amp; Gang will have an unreasonable answer for this (they always do!)


The following is from A1 Shet News, a reputable on-line equine site:


On Monday (2 Nov) night a horse was stolen from a field in the Guildford area. The people who took her sawed through a wooden post and rail fence to get out and this happened between 3pm and 6pm in the afternoon. The police were informed and so were the microchip company who circulated her details to all the ferry ports etc. As you can imagine the owner was completely distraught. Late Tuesday (3 Nov) afternoon she received a phone call from the police to say her horse had been found in Hollyhead, Wales . She was tied to a railing at the ferry port and the ferry to Ireland had gone without her. So today she is driving to Wales to pick her up. Several things have come to light in this story:
1. A week ago her horse had a small plait in its mane when she went to get her in from the field. She describes it as very small, almost like a tangle. She disregarded it as kids messing about (her horses are out in a field with others). However, this is how people mark horses to be stolen later. Ie. One person marks them, another then comes later and knows which one to take.
2. The ferry port at Hollyhead do not check horses passports or microchips. This horse was travelling without a passport.
3. The police believe the reason this horse was left behind was because she was microchipped. Although the UK is lax about passport and microchip checking, it is apparently more common for horses to be scanned on entering Ireland . The people who take them will scan them and dump them if they find a microchip. This horse also had a large obvious scar so this may have been a contributing factor.
The police told her that horses being dumped at a ferry terminal is not uncommon and they usually turn out to be stolen. They have had horses left in a lorry on the actually ferry!
This story has a happy ending for H and E, but it makes you wonder how many other stolen horses were on that ferry to Ireland .
The owner has asked me not to give any more details because of the police investigation that is on going, but has given her permission for me to relay this story, mainly to highlight:
1. If you find your horse with a small plait in its mane or tail please do not ignore it. I thought it was common knowledge that people knew about this, but several people I've spoken to since were not aware of it.
2. If your horse isnt microchipped please consider doing it. The owner of this horse describes her as nothing flashy, just a normal 14.2 bay mare so please dont think it couldnt happen to you.
Please do not ask me to provide more details regarding the horse or owner as I cant, but please spare a happy thought today for H and E who should be having a (probably very emotional) reunion in Hollyhead later on today. West Mercia Police


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## DebbieCG (8 January 2010)

By the way the above also highlights the loopholes concerning travel out of the UK - there should be changes at Government level concerning checking all horses that exit have valid passports etc.  

Perhaps this loophole should be explored by the makers of the Cutting Edge Channel 4 documentary 'The Horse Detectives' if they were to make a follow-up documentary about the continuation of horse theft in the UK.


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## bailey14 (8 January 2010)

Yes I have seen this before now, but it doesn't mean anything.  It could be that they have been duped by the story too.  I remember not long ago in Birmingham there was an urban myth concerning a child that was stolen out of a shopping trolley in Asda whilst the mothers back was turned.  Security guards in the store raced to stop traffic from leaving the carpark, everyone was stopped from leaving the store on foot, police were called, and eventually police burst into the ladies loo where they found the little girl dressed as a boy with the abductors about to shave the little girls head.  It was reported on a couple of web sites, but it was completely false, the story was an urban myth.  Unfortunatley whilst these rumours continue to circulate people will believe them, and like chinese whispers they escalate hugely.  I am sure if a thief is going to steal an unmarked horse they would not bother messing around plaiting its mane, they would do something less obvious like pick 'the only grey in the field' or the only bay with a blaze or whatever.  Its got ridiculous this story.


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## Serenity087 (8 January 2010)

I do believe the guildford horse story was found to be a scam.

Can someone honestly answer me this.

Do you HONESTLY think the people that are able to circumnavigate all your high tech security systems, make a mockery of the UK's equine identification system, get horses out of the country or across the other side in no time at all actually rely on PLAITS to identify the horses they're going to steal?

In the day of the camera phone and mobile sat navs, you really think that these people are stupid enough to plait a horses mane when all they need is a photo and a co-ordinate?

Don't underestimate your enemies.  Seriously.


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## DebbieCG (8 January 2010)

I can try and contact Shet News to verify - I doubt whether they would show this story, were it not from reliable sources.


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## Zebedee (8 January 2010)

Guilford story is an urban myth. No horses have ever been left tied to the docks. A poster on here verified this with the police.


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## The_snoopster (8 January 2010)

I,m sure i had a email from ringmaster telling this story, then another a week later stating the police had no knowledge of this ever happening.
There was no crime number for this case which surely there would be for something so serious, what made this case so credable is the certain fact that ferrys do not check out going horse transport as thoroughly as they should.
I am known for being paranoid for my horses security but in all fairness lots of the photo,s do look like wind tangles to me but if it makes more people aware of the dangers of theft then bring it on.
Personally the local horses that were stolen last year only across the lane in the opposite field were not plaited before they dissapeared, the theif just came took what they wanted and left.
The best preventative things to try and keep our horses safe are to freezemark, micochips, regular checks at different times, signs on your gates stating your security messures, when all these are done just enjoy your horses.


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## DebbieCG (8 January 2010)

There was an attempted theft of horses near to us one or two years ago and the police did not confirm, as it was listed under something like 'domestic'

I had a word with the owner of the horses and he confirmed there had been an attempted theft at his property.  Fortunately, someone he knew had been driving by and spotted a strange vehicle and horse trailer in the property and alerted relevant people.  By the way, this owner was still visably angry that someone had entered onto his property unlawfully.


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## DebbieCG (8 January 2010)

Good points, The_Snoopster re prevention, id and signs to warn.  

I think there should be far more stringent checks at ports.

Still, the police seemed to have no knowledge when asked about the incident I have just mentioned.  Yet I spoke to the horse owner and it most definitely had been an attempted theft.


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## The_snoopster (8 January 2010)

But surely the case of these stolen horses that were left at a port tied to railings because the thieves discovered the horses were chipped would be given a crime number. When anything criminal happens the first thing the police do is give you a crime number.
2 years ago my shettie was loosed out of his field, someone had smashed the padlocks off the gate, i rang the police and was given a crime reference number immediately.
Luckily for me my pony was found up the lane abandoned and was subdued for weeks after.
This horse that was stolen and abandoned there was no such report to the police, maybe a horse was abandoned i don,t know but there was something very suss about the whole story.
For me these (plaits) i,m not convinced yet.


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## DebbieCG (8 January 2010)

And have just remember something, even though the police seemed to have no listings of attempted horse theft at the property, the horse owner told me himself that the police had been able to trace the false number plate of the strange vehicle (number plate taken by friend who was passing by and who averted the attempt).

Owner said police tracked the false number plates (by motorway cameras) up to Birmingham or somewhere like that.

So we have owner saying one thing and the police not confirming - strange eh?


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## Tinseltoes (8 January 2010)

I believe it was a made up story.There was no  evidence of such a crime.


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## The_snoopster (8 January 2010)

Do you think there was no crime number because the thieves did not have time to steal and were distubed before being able to do so.
When my pony went missing the police were great and kept in touch every 20 mins untill the pony was found, it did help that the police officer lived close to my field and knew him and was almost as concerned as me.
She even arranged for extra paroles near my field for a few weeks untill i found a new field.


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## DebbieCG (8 January 2010)

Well. perhaps I can try and contact Shet News to verify a bit more.

Also not sure how much information police can give out, after all it might hinder any type of prosecution or may be a confidential matter, until concluded.  

Perhaps a poster with more knowledge of how the police listings system works would be better to advise us.


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## *hic* (8 January 2010)

She did:

This was the thread


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## Tinseltoes (9 January 2010)

i LIVE IN wALES AND i WOULD OF THOUGHT IT WOULD OF BEEN ON THE LOCAL NEWS!!!


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## DebbieCG (9 January 2010)

Just looked - poster said she made 'extensive checking' but doesn't confirm with whom and what was confirmed.

Another poster replied:

There is a full page item in our local paper tonight all about this. The Guildford to Holyhead story is mentioned as well, and a local police officer is quoted as saying horses have been found locally with plaits but none stolen. Keeping an open mind but having seen a picture of one of the "plaits" (on HHO I think) I would say they do look more like mane tangles. 


Can anyone find/show the item from the local paper - think above poster was based in Shropshire?


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## DebbieCG (9 January 2010)

Another poster also replied to the thread:

I received the email about the stolen horse in Guildford from a friend of mine who knows the person that this happened to. Also in the same week a plait was found in the mane of a gelding on our yard - he was living out 24/7 at the time in a field next to a public right of way, he and the other horses were removed right away to a more secure pasture. And a lorry was also stolen a week later, and we are in Guildford, Surrey, so all a bit worrying! Thankfully the lorry has been recovered by the police and after repairs are made will be returned!


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## DebbieCG (9 January 2010)

Checked in archives - think this may be the article from the Shropshire Star (18 November 2009)  Archives did not come up with counter-statement



Claim gangs mark out horses to steal

Gangs of Irish travellers are believed to be using a sinister marking technique to single out horses in Shropshire to steal and take home to race, it was claimed today.

Police have issued a warning to horseowners in the county to be on the lookout for a practice known as horse tagging where plaits are tied in the manes of the animals which could mean they are targets to be stolen at a later date.

Incidents have already been reported in Church Preen, Pontesbury near Shrewsbury, and Telford.

Roger Pittaway, clerk of Wroxeter and Uppington Parish Council, near Shrewsbury, said they had received a visit from Constable Dave Harte who told them about the issue.

He said: Constable Harte is very concerned that horses are being targeted in the area by the travelling fraternity.

Its called horse tagging and its coming up from the south. They are using these horses for racing in Ireland and they are looking for new stock. They race them into the ground and then abandon them or kill them. They are going around looking for horses they can steal.


Mr Pittaway said the plaits were so discreet that unless a person looked out for them they would often go unnoticed.

Constable Harte said one incident had been reported to police in the south of England regarding a horse stolen from a field in Guildford, Surrey. It was later found abandoned at a ferry port in Holyhead destined for Ireland, understood to have been left behind be-cause it was microchipped.

He added: We have had incidents in Church Preen, Pontesbury and in Telford. No horses have been stolen but we have found plaits in their manes.

We have sent warnings on the Ringmaster system and to everyone on the RuralWatch system in Shropshire.


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## the watcher (9 January 2010)

[ QUOTE ]
Just looked - poster said she made 'extensive checking' but doesn't confirm with whom and what was confirmed.

Another poster replied:

There is a full page item in our local paper tonight all about this. The Guildford to Holyhead story is mentioned as well, and a local police officer is quoted as saying horses have been found locally with plaits but none stolen. Keeping an open mind but having seen a picture of one of the "plaits" (on HHO I think) I would say they do look more like mane tangles. 


Can anyone find/show the item from the local paper - think above poster was based in Shropshire? 

[/ QUOTE ]

Debsam

I checked with the Police who cover the area from which the horse was supposedly stolen. They were well aware of the story but confirmed to be that no horse had been reported stolen from their area and recovered elsewhere.

It appears to be a complete myth. However, as with the Eastern Europeans in vans with cameras story last year, as these stories spread they gain credibility and even Police officer will give advice in good faith, believing them to be true.

Whilst it is perfectly possible that a horse with unexplained plaits has been stolen in the past, it is not a usual  _modus operandi_ , in fact horses more commonly disappear when on loan than are stolen from a field.

I must confess to getting a little irritated with hysteria.

If you are worried about your horse being stolen get it Freezemarked.

I am organising a session in Oxfordshire in February. As usual, many people want to spread stories and fear, a pitifully small number are actually prepared to protect their horses and I do wonder if I am wasting my time.


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## Cuffey (9 January 2010)

I am sure you are more than aware there is huge complacency out there

Having arranged a Freezemarking session in the past--I had 6 takers (2 were my own horses, 2 a friends) 
I can encourage I cant make people spend the money!
I have also arranged a discount on trailer roof marking letters I needed 20 people to  order together to get a discount (after a couple of trailers and one lorry stolen in the area) again only about 6 people interested but many responded to say they had already done that.  I have 200+ people on an email messaging service for my area


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## DebbieCG (9 January 2010)

Would be useful to see copy of Surrey police press release, apparently, according to mother_hen:

'I have done some extensive checking.

The intial email relating to Guildford NEVER HAPPENED and is a complete myth, Surrey Police are looking into making some kind of press release to confirm this as the rumours have got competely out of control

Also in NL '


I am also trying to check with mother_hen who she did her extensive checking with.  It would be very beneficial to get to the truth of this matter.


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## DebbieCG (9 January 2010)

One small point though, when you check with the police, you may not speak to the right person - the front desk are not always aware of some incidents that are being dealt with by certain departments.

mother_hen - can you confirm the name (by pm if you like) of the person or department who you spoke to at Guildford police?  I can check with them again or try and make a further check with them about it.

Also any press release about it?


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## Zebedee (9 January 2010)

Debsam as you are relatively new to the forum you won't be aware that Mother Hen is perfectly placed to gain first hand information of this nature!!  If M H says it didn't happen then it didn't.


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## DebbieCG (9 January 2010)

Of course, if you say so!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Zebedee (9 January 2010)

As you should now have got my PM you will now know why that is the case !! You may just have to accept that it just didn't happen !!


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## *hic* (9 January 2010)

[ QUOTE ]
Debsam as you are relatively new to the forum you won't be aware that Mother Hen is perfectly placed to gain first hand information of this nature!!  If M H says it didn't happen then it didn't. 

[/ QUOTE ]


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## CorvusCorax (9 January 2010)

[ QUOTE ]
 Its called horse tagging and its coming up from the south. They are using these horses for racing in Ireland and they are looking for new stock. They race them into the ground and then abandon them or kill them. They are going around looking for horses they can steal.


[/ QUOTE ]

Really? That is a new one on me. 
There are actually plenty of horses already in Ireland to steal or 'race', indeed horses of all types are getting harder and harder to sell and horses are being abandoned at auctions and sales because people can't afford them if they don't sell.
This isn't some sort of Third World country, we have running water and satellite television, as well as quite enough horses to be going on with.


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## the watcher (9 January 2010)

however I will answer the question 
	
	
		
		
	


	





The information was from their central Crime recording resouce, and they did search their records for me to be sure that there was no case that could even be loosely connected to this story


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## DebbieCG (9 January 2010)

Thanks for your reply mother_hen.   However, as there is still a gaping indescrepancy between the fact that you say the central Crime recording resource checked their records and there was ' no case that could even be loosely connected to this story'  and Constable Dave Harte's (Shropshire Star) report?


'Constable Harte said one incident had been reported to police in the south of England regarding a horse stolen from a field in Guildford, Surrey. It was later found abandoned at a ferry port in Holyhead destined for Ireland, understood to have been left behind be-cause it was microchipped.'


Where did he get his report from then?  Obviously not the central Crime recording resouce!  I am trying to contact Dave Harte to check.  Also would be interested to check with Guildford or Surrey police about the press release you mentioned


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## the watcher (9 January 2010)

I suspect he got it from the email that has been circulating on the internet and took it as gospel, in the interests of spreading crime reduction information and when the information appears genuine, misinformation is often accidentally spread. I have seen the same story on Horsewatch bulletins - which is why I decided to check it out.


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## DebbieCG (9 January 2010)

[ QUOTE ]
I suspect he got it from the email that has been circulating on the internet and took it as gospel, in the interests of spreading crime reduction information and when the information appears genuine, misinformation is often accidentally spread. I have seen the same story on Horsewatch bulletins - which is why I decided to check it out. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok thanks for your thoughts mother_hen.  I will try and check with him if the internet email is the 'source' he got his report from (although he doesn't say it is in the news article).  I haven't heard of a policeman taking anything as gospel from the internet though.


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## the watcher (9 January 2010)

They will if it is on Horsewatch/Neighbourhood Watch circulations because the source appears genuine.

You often find articles in papers attributed to police officers warning about incidents. Most of the stories, if you look into them, are internet spoofs. some have been genuinely supplied by police staff, some are attributed to officers who either know nothing about them or do not even exist


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## DebbieCG (9 January 2010)

Fair enough, that sounds plausible.


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## Tinseltoes (9 January 2010)

Common sense will tell you a thief is NOT going to warn you with a tag,hes about to steal your horse.He will just come,get your horse and take off.Especially with all with nonesense about tagging horses to steal,Im sure he wouldnt want to take thew risk!!!!!.I got an ear bashing on another thread on here all because I said there no no evidence that plaits were associated with theft.


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## the watcher (9 January 2010)

I've just had a look on Google putting in the phrase; On Monday (2 Nov) night my friends horse was stolen from a field in the Guildford area.

It generates 17,800 hits including some very reputable sites - not bad for something that isn't actually true, but this is how rumours spread.


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## DebbieCG (9 January 2010)

mother_hen

Ok have to report back that I have spoken to Constable Dave Hart, (Shropshire) and he did say that he could not validate the report and he did mention horsewatch/rural watch info, so looks like your version may be closer to where he got his report from.

'suspect he got it from the email that has been circulating on the internet and took it as gospel, in the interests of spreading crime reduction information and when the information appears genuine, misinformation is often accidentally spread. I have seen the same story on Horsewatch bulletins - which is why I decided to check it out.'


Still, it would be good to get to the source of all these claims, and why on the internet?  At least it does make people a bit more vigilant and hopefully getting their horses freezemarked etc.

I do speak from experience though as a victim of horsetheft after my  beautiful chestnut gelding, Ballymoss, was stolen from a secluded country lane yard in Hertfordshire (nobody on site at night) in the early 1980s.  Ballymoss was not freezemarked as freezebranding was just beginning to be established then.


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## the watcher (9 January 2010)

One could also ask why do people start the urban legends that involve children having their hair cut in supermarket toilets..or East europeans photographing horses

Funnily enough many of these rumours are racially based. 

Often they involve members of minority groups doing bizarre bad things that put the indigenous population at risk. Since I have no idea of who starts these I cannot say it is deliberate and the conspiracy theory I have that extreme right wing groups might actually make some mileage out of spreading these rumours may just be my paranoia...but you could see how it might work.


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## Zebedee (9 January 2010)

One of our local PCs rides, &amp; when she received last years "must have" text re Red Toyotas &amp; men who looked as if they might sound eastern european she duly passed it on in good faith before investigating any further. Because of what she does for a living people immediately assumed the information was true because she passed it on. It was only when I told her it was all a load of rubbish that she looked in to it further &amp; then sent out a text &amp; email apologising for causing any inadvertent alarm &amp; confirming that no reports of the above being sighted had been registered after all.
The point I am slowly getting to is that when people of good standing forward spurious information in good faith we end up with these hysterical posts. Horses do sadly get stolen, but not on the scales these rumour mongers would like us to believe, &amp; as CC points out its not as if there is exactly a shortage of horses either in Ireland or Europe.


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## netposse (9 January 2010)

It is easy for one to think that what they see on the Internet is the gospel. Even as mistrusting as I have become over the years because of what I deal with on a day to day basis I find myself still wanting to believe what I read. One reason we have such an rigorous reporting format is to help us weed out the stories that are not true or that have been greatly expanded upon as it was passed along. This is also one reason we work closely with law enforcement agencies.All of this helps but even that is infallible in the US.


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## netposse (9 January 2010)

And you are right. That is why we don't use email reports anymore. When we look into cases we find that what is often written in front of us is not the entire story or not one at all.


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