# Long Run



## Clodagh (20 March 2016)

So sad to see him today, what a shadow of his former self. I see what EKW meant about hoping this doesn't happen to Bobsworth.
If Sam had beaten him he could have been third, but he didn't and has got a 7 day ban as a result.
At least he is now retired, I hope he goes hunting, he is such a stunning horse and achieved so much so young.

http://www.racingpost.com/news/hors...in/2050526/top/#newsArchiveTabs=last7DaysNews


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## HashRouge (20 March 2016)

Good on Sam for doing right by the horse, can't believe he's got a ban for it!

I love Long Run, he will always be part of that golden generation, Kauto Star, Denman, Imperial Commander...will never forget his Gold Cup win!!


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## AdorableAlice (20 March 2016)

I will put my tin hat on and say the horse needed retiring 12 months ago.


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## KautoStar1 (20 March 2016)

He's the last from that golden era. I gather he spent 10 months on box rest after a very bad cut before they were able to even consider getting him back on the track. Presume he showed enough at home for them to consider running him again but he's told them today enough so well done connections for listening to him.   Shame on the stewards for their ban on Sam W-C when he was simply looking after the horse and doing the right thing by him.


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## Clodagh (20 March 2016)

When you read Alisatair Down's article about the Gold Cup that he won you think where are alll the charismatic horses nowadays - Sprinter Sacre not included.


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## Elf On A Shelf (20 March 2016)

Clodagh said:



			When you read Alisatair Down's article about the Gold Cup that he won you think where are alll the charismatic horses nowadays - Sprinter Sacre not included.
		
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Drowned out by the pink and green silks. At least the golden era wore different silks, were trained by different people, ridden by different jockeys and weren't affraid to take each other on! 

I am glad Lennie has retired. I do not agree with the stewards at all. If he had beaten it to the line he would have been done for either abuse of the whip or keeping on at an obviously tired horse. SWC couldn't have won with the stewards no matter what he did. 

I am not sure if he has a mount in the National but this ban will cover that meeting. They are going to appeal and rightly so.


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## AdorableAlice (20 March 2016)

EKW said:



			Drowned out by the pink and green silks. At least the golden era wore different silks, were trained by different people, ridden by different jockeys and weren't affraid to take each other on! 

I am glad Lennie has retired. I do not agree with the stewards at all. If he had beaten it to the line he would have been done for either abuse of the whip or keeping on at an obviously tired horse. SWC couldn't have won with the stewards no matter what he did. 

I am not sure if he has a mount in the National but this ban will cover that meeting. They are going to appeal and rightly so.
		
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The old horse has an entry, at least he won't be lining up now.  It is probably stupid but I hate to see gold cup winners pull out again just days after Cheltenham and run in the National.


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## Elf On A Shelf (20 March 2016)

Not many do the Gold Cup and the National in the same year these days. I don't think Don Poli is going to line up this year. Though saying that Mullins was adamant that Vatour was going for the GC then sent him out in the Ryanair instead so I do not take his word.


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## AdorableAlice (20 March 2016)

Was it a horse of JP's that won the Gold Cup and then died at Aintree, AP rode it I think.


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## Dobiegirl (20 March 2016)

It was Synchronised.


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## bonny (20 March 2016)

AdorableAlice said:



			Was it a horse of JP's that won the Gold Cup and then died at Aintree, AP rode it I think.
		
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Synchronised


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## Elf On A Shelf (20 March 2016)

Yes Synchronised. He fell at the 8th


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## Elf On A Shelf (20 March 2016)

EKW said:



			Yes Synchronised. He fell at the 8th
		
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Bloomington phone! Fell then was brought down and injured by another horse.


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## AdorableAlice (20 March 2016)

Ah yes, i remember him now, big white face on him.  I am a massive racing fan and love seeing the NH horses have long and successful careers, but I hate to see every last drop of bravery extracted from them and when that does happen it always seems to be the very wealthy owners who do it.


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## scotlass (20 March 2016)

Good on Sam WC for taking care of the horse.  Hopefully, the ban will be overturned, as he didn't deserve that . the horse was clearly tired.

Glad Long Run has been retired, and they're going to find another job for him.  At least he came home in once piece today, unlike poor Ethan in the first at Carlisle . a truly horrific injury.  Condolences to his connections.


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## scotlass (24 March 2016)

Unfortunately, Sam W-C failed in the appeal to have the ban for his sympathetic riding of Long Run overturned


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## Orangehorse (24 March 2016)

There was another horse that ran in the Gold Cup and then in the Grand National and he fell and broke his neck at Bechers.
Think it might have been Johnjo O'Neil riding it too.  Name started with A. It was a good, top class horse.
Rather ironic, but I think that Synchronised was just desperately, desperately unlucky.


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## Daffodil (24 March 2016)

Shocking decision.   Wonder where this leave the whip rule.  Licence to flog horses over the line?  The BHA should hang their heads in shame.


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## Clodagh (24 March 2016)

scotlass said:



			Unfortunately, Sam W-C failed in the appeal to have the ban for his sympathetic riding of Long Run overturned
		
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That is a shame. I suppose a lot of each way bets missed out. I love horse racing but I never bet - it demeans the efforts of those stunning creatures in my eyes.


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## Alec Swan (24 March 2016)

A paragraph from the article;

** _However, while the disciplinary panel accepted Sam Waley-Cohen's opinion that he felt Long Run was tiring, they did not concur that the horse would have finished fifth regardless and said they felt the 12-year-old would have been third if the jockey had continued to ride_. **

I don't see how the adjudicating panel had any other choice.  That S W-C did the right thing for the horse,  isn't in doubt,  but to condone the conduct of a jockey who doesn't continue to ride to the finish cannot be right.  If anyone's responsible,  it would be the owner and the trainer,  but the rider,  for entirely the right ethical reasons,  decided to spare the horse and his judgement,  though correct means that he is the one who carries the responsibility.

Should the panel concerned have accepted the rider's decision and taken no action would have set a precedent for others to claim the same and the future could well be one of other claims and to cover race-fixing.

I applaud the jockey for his honourable decision and likewise the owners for offering the horse immediate retirement,  but sadly,  the decision was entirely correct and it stands.  Strangely perhaps,  it wasn't a case of right or wrong,  but protecting the sport of steeplechasing,  and as such whilst perhaps not applauded,  it should be accepted with good grace.

Alec.


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## satinbaze (24 March 2016)

Orangehorse said:



			There was another horse that ran in the Gold Cup and then in the Grand National and he fell and broke his neck at Bechers.
Think it might have been Johnjo O'Neil riding it too.  Name started with A. It was a good, top class horse.
Rather ironic, but I think that Synchronised was just desperately, desperately unlucky.
		
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I think this was Alverton possibly the year Aldaniti won, I could be wrong


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## Orangehorse (24 March 2016)

I think Alverton is correct - didn't he actually win the Gold Cup.

Going back to the thread, I does seem a harsh decision, when you think of all the horses run out of a place as the line approaches.


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## Dobiegirl (24 March 2016)

It was Alverton, he was one of my favourite horses.

Personally I think the fact Sam.W.C failed in his appeal is a backward step, horse welfare should always come first and with the antis doing their best to stop our sport I really see this as shooting ourselves in the foot. Apart from Alec Ive not seen another post and that includes the RP fb site agreeing with the stewards decision. We've seen fatalities at Cheltenham and I hope and pray we dont see any at Aintree, we have to show that welfare comes first.

My biggest bugbear and Im an avid racing fan is seeing horses out of contention, out on their feet continue to jump fences with the resulting fatal fall.


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## bonny (24 March 2016)

Dobiegirl said:



			It was Alverton, he was one of my favourite horses.

Personally I think the fact Sam.W.C failed in his appeal is a backward step, horse welfare should always come first and with the antis doing their best to stop our sport I really see this as shooting ourselves in the foot. Apart from Alec Ive not seen another post and that includes the RP fb site agreeing with the stewards decision. We've seen fatalities at Cheltenham and I hope and pray we dont see any at Aintree, we have to show that welfare comes first.

My biggest bugbear and Im an avid racing fan is seeing horses out of contention, out on their feet continue to jump fences with the resulting fatal fall.
		
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He would have been ok with the stewards if Long Run had been pulled up but the problem was he was eased coming up to the line, which meant he lost 3rd place. The rules are that you have to gain the best possible placing and he didn't. The fact that it was Long Run and he was retired after the race is irrelevant.


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## bonny (24 March 2016)

Just seen that they have changed the dates of the suspension so that Sam can ride in the National, the whole think is a PR joke really.


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## Clodagh (24 March 2016)

I think that Alec has a point and he could have continued to hands and heels the horse without hitting it.


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## Alec Swan (24 March 2016)

Dobiegirl said:



			..

My biggest bugbear and Im an avid racing fan is seeing horses out of contention, out on their feet continue to jump fences with the resulting fatal fall.
		
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I agree with you and without question; to see a horse which is simply exhausted being pushed to continue,  is indeed a sorry sight and does nothing for horse racing,  BUT and it must be considered,  the racing of horses is all about gambling.  Were there no gamblers then there'd be no racing,  that must be obvious.  Were the horse at the back of the field,  with no chance of a placing,  then he'd have been pulled up.  He wasn't,  the panel considered that the horse '_could_' have held third place,  and therein is the problem.

Imagine that a punter had put £5k E/W on Long Run,  and the view of those who judge the riders was that the horse could have managed third place,  how do we think that they'd feel?  

All that I'm doing is defending the panel who adjudged S W-C,  not what happened.  I do feel,  and strongly,  that those who adjudicate such performances need to start to consider the horse itself and whether the right welfare decisions were taken by the rider.  It is though a slippery slope,  and I'm really not sure where the answers lie.

Alec.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (24 March 2016)

AdorableAlice said:



			I will put my tin hat on and say the horse needed retiring 12 months ago.
		
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He had an injury due to a cut not related to racing, and it took a long  while to get him back, its perfectly normal to try again with an older horse, its often difficult to know when they need/want to retire.


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## bonny (24 March 2016)

Alec Swan said:



			I agree with you and without question; to see a horse which is simply exhausted being pushed to continue,  is indeed a sorry sight and does nothing for horse racing,  BUT and it must be considered,  the racing of horses is all about gambling.  Were there no gamblers then there'd be no racing,  that must be obvious.  Were the horse at the back of the field,  with no chance of a placing,  then he'd have been pulled up.  He wasn't,  the panel considered that the horse '_could_' have held third place,  and therein is the problem.

Imagine that a punter had put £5k E/W on Long Run,  and the view of those who judge the riders was that the horse could have managed third place,  how do we think that they'd feel?  

All that I'm doing is defending the panel who adjudged S W-C,  not what happened.  I do feel,  and strongly,  that those who adjudicate such performances need to start to consider the horse itself and whether the right welfare decisions were taken by the rider.  It is though a slippery slope,  and I'm really not sure where the answers lie.

Alec.
		
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They do consider the horses welfare, it's not all about betting. If Long Run was that tired then he would have pulled up but what happened clearly broke the rules, you are not allowed to ease a horse on the run in, Sam knew that which would be why he started riding again when he was passed. Horses have to be seen to run on their merits, Long Run should have been third and the stewards took the only decision they could. Changing the dates after the ban is a joke though !


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## Exploding Chestnuts (24 March 2016)

Alec Swan said:



			I agree with you and without question; to see a horse which is simply exhausted being pushed to continue,  is indeed a sorry sight and does nothing for horse racing,  BUT and it must be considered,  the racing of horses is all about gambling.  Were there no gamblers then there'd be no racing,  that must be obvious.  Were the horse at the back of the field,  with no chance of a placing,  then he'd have been pulled up.  He wasn't,  the panel considered that the horse '_could_' have held third place,  and therein is the problem.

Imagine that a punter had put £5k E/W on Long Run,  and the view of those who judge the riders was that the horse could have managed third place,  how do we think that they'd feel?  

All that I'm doing is defending the panel who adjudged S W-C,  not what happened.  I do feel,  and strongly,  that those who adjudicate such performances need to start to consider the horse itself and whether the right welfare decisions were taken by the rider.  It is though a slippery slope,  and I'm really not sure where the answers lie.

Alec.
		
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I did not read all this wafffle alec, once you banged all about " racing is all about gambling", it is not, plenty of people go racing and they are not serious gamblers. People who put real money down to make a living can gamble on plenty of sports. They will not usually gain from betting at the racecourse. They usually go for the social aspects.
Racing is not run for the benefit of Bookmakers.
If people get upset about losing a tenner they have a problem. No one forced them to go racing or bet on the horse. 
PS  no one was on  E/W , it was a 7 horse race and 1/2 on fav.


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## Alec Swan (24 March 2016)

Bonkers2,  do you honestly believe that were there no gambling,  we'd still have racing?  With respect,  if you do,  you're living in a dream.

Alec.


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## bonny (24 March 2016)

Alec Swan said:



			Bonkers2,  do you honestly believe that were there no gambling,  we'd still have racing?  With respect,  if you do,  you're living in a dream.

Alec.
		
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We wouldn't have racing without horses, owners, viewing public, betting and rules ! It takes all of them together.


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## Alec Swan (24 March 2016)

bonny said:



			We wouldn't have racing without horses, owners, viewing public, betting and rules ! It takes all of them together.
		
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But without the funding from gambling,  do you honestly believe that we'd still have racing?

Alec.


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## bonny (24 March 2016)

Alec Swan said:



			But without the funding from gambling,  do you honestly believe that we'd still have racing?

Alec.
		
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No, like I say it takes everything working together.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (24 March 2016)

Alec Swan said:



			But without the funding from gambling,  do you honestly believe that we'd still have racing?

Alec.
		
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Keep up Alec, I' ve already answered this question, in the  VP post, its totally irrelevant anyway.
There already is racing not "funded" by the bookies in this country.


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## Alec Swan (24 March 2016)

bonny said:



			No, like I say it takes everything working together.
		
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So,  are those who supply the funds upon which the sport which we follow,  not to be considered when a horse,  in the opinion of the panel concerned 'could' have retained third place,  to be ignored?  Those who judged S W-C were considering those who supply the life blood of racing,  and no,  I don't care for it either,  but they are entitled to be considered.

Alec.


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## Alec Swan (24 March 2016)

Bonkers2 said:



			Keep up Alec, I' ve already answered this question, its totally irrelevant anyway.
		
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My apologies,  I failed to see your answer.  Could you head me towards it?

Alec.


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## bonny (24 March 2016)

Alec Swan said:



			So,  are those who supply the funds upon which the sport which we follow,  not to be considered when a horse,  in the opinion of the panel concerned 'could' have retained third place,  to be ignored?  Those who judged S W-C were considering those who supply the life blood of racing,  and no,  I don't care for it either,  but they are entitled to be considered.

Alec.
		
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That's not strictly true, they are not just looking after the interests of the betting public, they do consider the horses welfare, but the main reason we have rules is to try and keep racing as straight as possible. All horses in a race, regardless of where they finish have to get the best placing that they can, you can't just hack round at the back and claim the horse was having an educational run, for example. Otherwise horses are impossible to handicap properly and the sport would be even more open to accusations of being fixed than it already is. Long Run's race clearly broke the rules and the stewards had no option other than to ban the jockey !


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## AdorableAlice (24 March 2016)

Without Betfair, William Hill, Paddy Power etc there would be no greyhounds or TB's bred.


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## Alec Swan (24 March 2016)

bonny said:



			&#8230;&#8230;.. . Otherwise horses are impossible to handicap properly and the sport would be even more open to accusations of being fixed than it already is. Long Run's race clearly broke the rules and the stewards had no option other than to ban the jockey !
		
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In fewer words than mine perhaps,  but my points exactly!  Thank you.

Alec.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (24 March 2016)

Alec Swan said:



			My apologies,  I failed to see your answer.  Could you head me towards it?

Alec.
		
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See  VP thread, [the one where you lost £20 on VP], the fact that already there is racing NOT under rules, and that bookies don't pay out on 3rd on a 7 horse race, and only a fool tries to buy  money on a 2 to 1 on horse that is no longer trained by a top trainer and has been off for a year.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (24 March 2016)

AdorableAlice said:



			Without Betfair, William Hill, Paddy Power etc there would be no greyhounds or TB's bred.
		
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They were not about in the early days.
 Google The Thoroughbred .     I think the first reference is about 1157 AD!

and then there is Diana the Huntress, by Casimir ,   lol


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## popsdosh (24 March 2016)

bonny said:



			Just seen that they have changed the dates of the suspension so that Sam can ride in the National, the whole think is a PR joke really.
		
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I dont think Sam has a ride in the National , Nina Carberry casn also now ride on National day as they have taken advantage of the ambiguous wording in the ruling that covers amateur riders bans. The only word that is missing is an OR can you spot were it should be.

Waley-Cohen said: "After I was given the days I asked why I would be banned on Grand National day, given the wording of the rule is quite specific and says bans apply on days when there is an amateur riders' chase, an amateur riders' hurdle or a conditional and amateur riders' bumper.

"On the day in question there is only a conditional and amateur riders' hurdle. The BHA said they would have another look at the rule and I've been told I can now ride on National day.

I bet somebody earnt good money finding that one the BHA have said the wording will be rectified after the event.


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## bonny (24 March 2016)

popsdosh said:



			I dont think Sam has a ride in the National , I think it is all about the Foxhunters as Nina can now ride as well as her suspension has been lifted as well . The official word is there is a technicality in the rules.
		
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They are good at finding a technicality in the rules ! Don't be surprised to see Sam lining up at the National. I think Nina is still ruled out of the Foxhunters but it's good for racing if she rides at the National. Cynic that I am !


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## Alec Swan (25 March 2016)

bonny said:



			That's not strictly true, they are not just looking after the interests of the betting public, they do consider the horses welfare, .. !
		
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Accepted because of course there are also the thoughts of those who seem to plough vast amounts of money in via sponsorship,  and often from businesses,  many of whom I've never heard of,  but who may very well not wish to have their names sullied by welfare issues.  There's a tricky balance to be maintained,  I'm sure that you'll agree.

When it appears that jockeys can just about decide for themselves when their bans should be activated,  it only serves to add further confusion.  I wonder what would happen were I to appear in Court for speeding offences and where a ban would be inevitable,  and were I to advise the magistrate that I was about to go on a touring holiday for a fortnight and could the ban start when I return home! 

Alec.


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## Clodagh (25 March 2016)

Bonkers2 said:



			He had an injury due to a cut not related to racing, and it took a long  while to get him back, its perfectly normal to try again with an older horse, its often difficult to know when they need/want to retire.
		
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Look at Sprinter Sacre - I thought he should have retired, shows what I know!


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## Alec Swan (25 March 2016)

Dobiegirl said:



			&#8230;&#8230;.. . Apart from Alec Ive not seen another post and that includes the RP fb site agreeing with the stewards decision. &#8230;&#8230;.. .
		
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Perhaps not,  but for broadly the reasons that I gave,  the Ch4 pundits feel the same way,  and also with a measure of regret.

Having just watched a re-run,  and from the head-on camera,  it seems that S W-C looked over his right shoulder,  didn't see horses closing on his left,  and again picked up the reins when he realised that they were closing,  but by then it was too late.  He made a rather amateurish mistake,  I'd say.

Alec.


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## stormox (25 March 2016)

If in doubt whether to push on or pull up, for the horses sake pull up. I hate to see horses being pushed to their absolute limits when theyve given of their best. Well done Sam for thinking of the horse (who has already given him so much) and not the prize money.


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## Mariposa (25 March 2016)

Clodagh said:



			Look at Sprinter Sacre - I thought he should have retired, shows what I know!
		
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I really hope they retire  Sprinter now. End on a great note, at the very top of his game. I'm a massive fan of the horse, I think all at Seven Barrows have been amazing getting him back, but my heart couldn't handle watching him run again!


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## bonny (25 March 2016)

Mariposa said:



			I really hope they retire  Sprinter now. End on a great note, at the very top of his game. I'm a massive fan of the horse, I think all at Seven Barrows have been amazing getting him back, but my heart couldn't handle watching him run again!
		
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I think they are considering running him again this season at Sandown.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (26 March 2016)

Alec Swan said:



			Perhaps not,  but for broadly the reasons that I gave,  the Ch4 pundits feel the same way,  and also with a measure of regret.

Having just watched a re-run,  and from the head-on camera,  it seems that S W-C looked over his right shoulder,  didn't see horses closing on his left,  and again picked up the reins when he realised that they were closing,  but by then it was too late.  He made a rather amateurish mistake,  I'd say.

Alec.
		
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Yes Alec, of course, you do realise he is a true amateur, [he is a young business man], all self funded and now home trained
Shock revelation: even professionals look the wrong way sometimes. I would never worry if he was carrying my £2.00, but obviously I rarely bet with my heart, so the odds would have to represent value, which must be the core of profitable betting.
I m sorry if you had an  E/w bet at 2 to 1 on on, lol......... and that you put £20 on VP to win the day she fell off, but at least you have a better understanding of how the bookies earn a living.
No one died, no one lost any significant money, and another rider can say their horse beat Long Run , so lots of good things.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (26 March 2016)

Oh look. there is a $10million dollar race this weekend, not sponsored by the big three!


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## Elf On A Shelf (26 March 2016)

Bonkers2 said:



			Oh look. there is a $10million dollar race this weekend, not sponsored by the big three!
		
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No but that's the band of brothers gifting each other money that they get back in another race a week later.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (26 March 2016)

EKW said:



			No but that's the band of brothers gifting each other money that they get back in another race a week later.
		
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yerp, but the argument was that there would be no racing without bookmakers, which is rubbish, and that the bookies should run racing, believe me, I know what a bad idea that is.
One of our fillies was all set to win [as if that was guaranteed lol], not our money btw.
The bookies managed to get the race started 5 mins early, not only did we miss the start, but the race was finished before the race was due to start!
Our little lady was still being tacked up out of the hurly burly,  she was a bit hyper, so we used to arrive last in the parade ring and leave first.


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## olop (26 March 2016)

AdorableAlice said:



			I will put my tin hat on and say the horse needed retiring 12 months ago.
		
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I agree, I'm sure I read they had the national in mind for him.....so glad he's been retired now!


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## Alec Swan (27 March 2016)

Bonkers2 said:



			&#8230;&#8230;.., but the argument was that there would be no racing without bookmakers, which is rubbish, and that the bookies should run racing, believe me, I know what a bad idea that is.
&#8230;&#8230;.. .
		
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Are you suggesting that such thoughts have been voiced on this thread?  Assuming that you are,  who in their right mind's would believe that bookmakers should 'run racing'?  Gambling pays for racing,  it's that simple and without such funding we wouldn't have a racing industry.  Though I'd doubt that many on here are serious punters,  most of us (certainly I) watch racing avidly and for the sheer delight of watching and as spectators.  

I've been known to stick a few quid on,  perhaps once or twice a year,  though I never seem to win.  Like most I suppose,  I can pick winners on the telly all day long,  but putting my money where my mouth is,  never seems to work!

Alec.


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