# Mutazayid



## magic104 (21 October 2010)

Anyone know what his stock are like?


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## woodgnome (28 October 2010)

Have got several youngsters by Mutazayid. Most out of TB mares. Will post asome pictures in next few days, some are very impressive, much like the stallion when you see him.


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## magic104 (28 October 2010)

Shame he all the way down in Devon, would have liked to have seen him.  Mind might get the chance, my friend wants to meet her mares sire Bandmaster & I believe they stand at the same stud.


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## Blacklist (28 October 2010)

magic104 said:



			Shame he all the way down in Devon, would have liked to have seen him.  Mind might get the chance, my friend wants to meet her mares sire Bandmaster & I believe they stand at the same stud.
		
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Very nice horse of the old TB stamp with bone and plenty of substance - not graded I believe? But that makes no difference to me there are a lot of stallions that are not graded and are excellent horses and sires


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## magic104 (28 October 2010)

I dont think he has ever been put forward for grading & he is unraced but still like the look of him.  For next year Im looking at an Arab or AA & the AHS list of premium stallions is not large so it is doubtful if one is chosen that is going to be graded either.


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## woodgnome (28 October 2010)

He was a big backward youngster so he never ran. From a racing point of view he has one of the best pedigrees you could get in a TB. Although you can't race a pedigree, the blood will always come out in the end. A stallion is only as good as his progeny in my eyes, and the ones i have seen by him are nice. Grading doesnt make a blind bit of difference to me.


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## sallyf (28 October 2010)

He has stock on the ground as old as 5 so hopefully there will be some to see out and about soon


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## Blacklist (28 October 2010)

woodgnome said:



			He was a big backward youngster so he never ran. From a racing point of view he has one of the best pedigrees you could get in a TB. Although you can't race a pedigree, the blood will always come out in the end. A stallion is only as good as his progeny in my eyes, and the ones i have seen by him are nice. Grading doesnt make a blind bit of difference to me.
		
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Well said! And as the old saying goes 'don't look at the horse look at his foals'


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## vicijp (28 October 2010)

'Sounds' like there was a good reason he never raced.
http://www.dbsauctions.com/pdf/dbs/181/34_204.pdf


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## sallyf (28 October 2010)

vicijp said:



			'Sounds' like there was a good reason he never raced.
http://www.dbsauctions.com/pdf/dbs/181/34_204.pdf

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Oh dear thats not good


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## Simsar (28 October 2010)

Sally have you seen the 2yr old in H&H


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## sallyf (28 October 2010)

Simsar said:



			Sally have you seen the 2yr old in H&H
		
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No dont have h and h anymore anything interesting.
Off to look at something at the weekend


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## Simsar (28 October 2010)

Without hijacking hope its over 16.1 x


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## kizzyjerry (28 October 2010)

my lad was by him out of a shire. Lost him a couple of months ago due to field accident.

he had just turned two - had the most wonderful temperment and took everything in his stride (he went through alot when we tried to save him including 6 weeks b/rest and remained a saint throughout)


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## woodgnome (29 October 2010)

vicijp said:



			'Sounds' like there was a good reason he never raced.
http://www.dbsauctions.com/pdf/dbs/181/34_204.pdf

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Night shift who stood at Coolmore had a wind problem, i believe, but he went on to be a successfull sire, and i believe lucarno who won the St leger also had a breathing operation after some poor performances. Won't stop people using him either.  There's lots of reasons why damage can occur to the Laryngeal nerve, no proof that it is hereditary.


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## magic104 (29 October 2010)

I knew a 17hh horse by Nickel King who had wind problems & I remember the vet saying he came across it more in the larger TB.  There was no mention of it being hereditary though, I cant remember the dam line, so no chance of checking.


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## sallyf (29 October 2010)

woodgnome said:



			Night shift who stood at Coolmore had a wind problem, i believe, but he went on to be a successfull sire, and i believe lucarno who won the St leger also had a breathing operation after some poor performances. Won't stop people using him either.  There's lots of reasons why damage can occur to the Laryngeal nerve, no proof that it is hereditary.
		
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Totally agree lots of reasons why horses have wind ops and not proven to be hereditary .
Although there are bloodlines that it appears in more frequently so there is thought to be some genetic factor involved. 
But i dont think you can compare the likes of Nightshift and Lucarno with Mutazayid as for one both of these horses raced succesfully thus proving themselves tough and talented despite having wind problems.
Mutazayid on the other hand failed to make the racecourse.


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## vicijp (29 October 2010)

woodgnome said:



			Night shift who stood at Coolmore had a wind problem, i believe, but he went on to be a successfull sire, and i believe lucarno who won the St leger also had a breathing operation after some poor performances. Won't stop people using him either.  There's lots of reasons why damage can occur to the Laryngeal nerve, no proof that it is hereditary.
		
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There is no proof that it is not hereditary either.
I agree, a wind problem does not make a horse a bad one - just as a pedigree doesn't guarantee a good one. The fact they never even picked up a Yarmouth maiden with this horse would make me think he wasn't even capable of that.
The fact that this horse was entered for the sales as a back end 3yo(from the trainer), but was withdrawn, and then finally sold from the stud 3 months later would also make me suspicious.


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## woodgnome (29 October 2010)

sallyf said:



			Totally agree lots of reasons why horses have wind ops and not proven to be hereditary .
Although there are bloodlines that it appears in more frequently so there is thought to be some genetic factor involved. 
But i dont think you can compare the likes of Nightshift and Lucarno with Mutazayid as for one both of these horses raced succesfully thus proving themselves tough and talented despite having wind problems.
Mutazayid on the other hand failed to make the racecourse.
		
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Wasn't comparing Mutazayid with Night shift and Lucarno. Just pointing out that people will still use them despite the wind problem. 
Although he didn't run, he is a lovelly looking horse and the stock i have seen by him are nice as well.


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## Blacklist (29 October 2010)

magic104 said:



			I knew a 17hh horse by Nickel King who had wind problems & I remember the vet saying he came across it more in the larger TB.  There was no mention of it being hereditary though, I cant remember the dam line, so no chance of checking.
		
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The wind problem explains why he hasn't been put forward for grading. I agree it is not hereditary and he is still a v g stamp of TB.


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## woodgnome (29 October 2010)

vicijp said:



			There is no proof that it is not hereditary either.
I agree, a wind problem does not make a horse a bad one - just as a pedigree doesn't guarantee a good one. The fact they never even picked up a Yarmouth maiden with this horse would make me think he wasn't even capable of that.
The fact that this horse was entered for the sales as a back end 3yo(from the trainer), but was withdrawn, and then finally sold from the stud 3 months later would also make me suspicious.
		
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Wouldn't bother me one bit. His younger half brother Ezdiyaad was offered at sales and withdrawn, later went on to win several races. The same Stables/stud also ( infamously)sold this years 2000 guineas winner, Makfi, at the sales as they didn't think much of him. There's lots of unraced mares who go on to breed group winning stallions, so performance on the track is does not neccesarily mean everything. Incidently, the dam of Makfi was unraced, but well bred. I rest my case...


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## vicijp (29 October 2010)

Well that explains everything, he is definetly a top class prospect to sire graded winners on the level.


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## S_N (29 October 2010)

vicijp said:



			'Sounds' like there was a good reason he never raced.
http://www.dbsauctions.com/pdf/dbs/181/34_204.pdf

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Blimey!  That pedigree has changed considerably, just in the last 2 years!


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## magic104 (30 October 2010)

There is an article in H&H pg 66 "The star filly no one wanted".    Should of been sold as a yearling but due to an ordinary pedigree none of the auction houses wanted her, the the breeze up sale was cancelled & as they say the rest is history.  She is ex of a mare that did nothing in 4 races, yet the dams siblings have had no problems winning, & now she has produced a winning daughter.   Just that the sale ring does not prove anything where Mutazayid concerned.


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## Blacklist (30 October 2010)

magic104 said:



			There is an article in H&H pg 66 "The star filly no one wanted".    Should of been sold as a yearling but due to an ordinary pedigree none of the auction houses wanted her, the the breeze up sale was cancelled & as they say the rest is history.  She is ex of a mare that did nothing in 4 races, yet the dams siblings have had no problems winning, & now she has produced a winning daughter.   Just that the sale ring does not prove anything where Mutazayid concerned.
		
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Magic104 with respect on this forum you do express very strong opinions on the importance of using only 'Graded' stallions, and on occasion have severly critisised stallions because they are not graded  - why the sudden change of heart?


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## magic104 (30 October 2010)

Blacklist said:



			Magic104 with respect on this forum you do express very strong opinions on the importance of using only 'Graded' stallions, and on occasion have severly critisised stallions because they are not graded  - why the sudden change of heart?
		
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With due respect Blacklist I have not severly critisised stallions in the past, & certainly no more then I have read from others.  You have based that on my comment from earlier in the year when I saw your stallion presented at Addington for grading.  So find another post where I have "and on occasion have severly critisised stallions because they are not graded".  So what he did not do it for me, no big deal.  No one gives a monkeys what my views are anyway.  I am more then aware the grading system does not always work.  What I do believe is that there are enough graded stallions out there that there is no need to gamble on one that has failed, unless you are happy that what he failed on wont affect the union with your mare.

I have yet to see Mutazayid in the flesh, so how can I comment on him?  It is also quiet common for TB stallions not to go forward for grading, though I admire those that do put them forward.  The gradings should be a bench mark & should be a helpful tool for the mare owner.  As I said in a previous post, it is the owners choice whether to use a graded stallion or not, just to date I have chosen not to.  If an owner has had the conviction to put their stallion forward & it passes then mare owners are then supporting a system that is there to improve breeding as a whole.  Grading is not everything, but it is a start, does not help that all the studbooks dont appear to have the same standard, but hey that is life.

In other posts I have not ruled out using an ungraded stallion, I may not have a choice if I want to breed an AA as there is no graded Arab stallion in the UK.  There is no reason for that, the Trak accept them, the SHBUK might be a bit prejudice, their own stud book offer a Premium scheme.

I have a soft spot for black horses, but not all of them are going to do it for me & yours was one of them.  He appears to be producing nice stock, so again what does it matter what I thought.


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## Blacklist (30 October 2010)

magic104 said:



			With due respect Blacklist I have not severly critisised stallions in the past, & certainly no more then I have read from others.  You have based that on my comment from earlier in the year when I saw your stallion presented at Addington for grading.  So find another post where I have "and on occasion have severly critisised stallions because they are not graded".  So what he did not do it for me, no big deal.  No one gives a monkeys what my views are anyway.  I am more then aware the grading system does not always work.  What I do believe is that there are enough graded stallions out there that there is no need to gamble on one that has failed, unless you are happy that what he failed on wont affect the union with your mare.

I have yet to see Mutazayid in the flesh, so how can I comment on him?  It is also quiet common for TB stallions not to go forward for grading, though I admire those that do put them forward.  The gradings should be a bench mark & should be a helpful tool for the mare owner.  As I said in a previous post, it is the owners choice whether to use a graded stallion or not, just to date I have chosen not to.  If an owner has had the conviction to put their stallion forward & it passes then mare owners are then supporting a system that is there to improve breeding as a whole.  Grading is not everything, but it is a start, does not help that all the studbooks dont appear to have the same standard, but hey that is life.

In other posts I have not ruled out using an ungraded stallion, I may not have a choice if I want to breed an AA as there is no graded Arab stallion in the UK.  There is no reason for that, the Trak accept them, the SHBUK might be a bit prejudice, their own stud book offer a Premium scheme.

I have a soft spot for black horses, but not all of them are going to do it for me & yours was one of them.  He appears to be producing nice stock, so again what does it matter what I thought.
		
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My stallion has nothing to do with my earlier comment - the many positive expert opinions we have had for my name sake, more than out way the few negative ones - and the proof of the pudding...... and he is doing his job well.

I have sent you pm


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## woodgnome (30 October 2010)

vicijp said:



			Well that explains everything, he is definetly a top class prospect to sire graded winners on the level.
		
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Do i detect a note of sarcasm??
The point i was trying to make in reply to the comment about running at yarmouth is that the fact he is unraced should make no difference to his prospect of producing winning offspring. If the horse had a pair of ovaries instead of balls, he would have been retained and bred to the best stallions available due to the pedigree. If Shadwell Stud, one of the most successfull establishments in racing today, are happy to breed, successfully, from unraced stock, then it's good enough for me. The horse gets 50% of it's genes from the each parent, so it makes no scientific difference whether it's the dam or sire that is unraced. Accordian, one of the leading jumps sires ( now dead i think) never set foot on a racetrack.


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## Blacklist (31 October 2010)

woodgnome said:



			Do i detect a note of sarcasm??
The point i was trying to make in reply to the comment about running at yarmouth is that the fact he is unraced should make no difference to his prospect of producing winning offspring. If the horse had a pair of ovaries instead of balls, he would have been retained and bred to the best stallions available due to the pedigree. If Shadwell Stud, one of the most successfull establishments in racing today, are happy to breed, successfully, from unraced stock, then it's good enough for me. The horse gets 50% of it's genes from the each parent, so it makes no scientific difference whether it's the dam or sire that is unraced. Accordian, one of the leading jumps sires ( now dead i think) never set foot on a racetrack.
		
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Bravo


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## vicijp (31 October 2010)

woodgnome said:



			Do i detect a note of sarcasm??
The point i was trying to make in reply to the comment about running at yarmouth is that the fact he is unraced should make no difference to his prospect of producing winning offspring. If the horse had a pair of ovaries instead of balls, he would have been retained and bred to the best stallions available due to the pedigree. If Shadwell Stud, one of the most successfull establishments in racing today, are happy to breed, successfully, from unraced stock, then it's good enough for me. The horse gets 50% of it's genes from the each parent, so it makes no scientific difference whether it's the dam or sire that is unraced. Accordian, one of the leading jumps sires ( now dead i think) never set foot on a racetrack.
		
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Why do I feel this could go round in circles for ever? 
I am not impartial to buying from unraced dams, in fact my two in training at the moment are. The difference is a mare only has a few shots at producing rubbish, when a stallion gets loads. I've always been interested in Accordian's story, but never been able to find it (HANDH ARTICLE?).
I agree the fact he is unraced will make no difference to the stock he produces, but the reason why he was unraced might.


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## woodgnome (31 October 2010)

magic104 said:



			Anyone know what his stock are like?
		
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Going back to the original topic of the thread.






5 yr old mare, nearly full TB


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## woodgnome (31 October 2010)

magic104 said:



			Anyone know what his stock are like?
		
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This is a 2yr old TB filly, at grass!


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## woodgnome (31 October 2010)

magic104 said:



			Shame he all the way down in Devon, would have liked to have seen him.  Mind might get the chance, my friend wants to meet her mares sire Bandmaster & I believe they stand at the same stud.
		
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Mutazayid at Stallion Parade early 2010,


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## magic104 (1 November 2010)

woodgnome, thank you.


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## S_N (1 November 2010)

I like the look of his stock.  Would love to see a confo shot of him.

My only reservation is temperament.  I have a wee bit of experience with this family and stock sired by stallions within the family and I wouldn't say they were for everyone, esp. the fillies.


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## woodgnome (1 November 2010)

S_N said:



			I like the look of his stock.  Would love to see a confo shot of him.

My only reservation is temperament.  I have a wee bit of experience with this family and stock sired by stallions within the family and I wouldn't say they were for everyone, esp. the fillies.
		
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When he was at Parkham Ash stud, before he was leased to Vauterhill, he was stabled in a mixed barn/shed, with mares opposite him. His temprament seemed fine to me. The fillies we have had by him sometimes show a bit of "attutude", but i would say are no different to any young TB filly. At the end of the day, if people are breeding TB's, for either racing or eventing, they should be able to manage a young horse and educate it. 
I see he has a yearling in tomorrows Ascot sale, probably won't make a lot. If someone wants to gain 2 years on their breeding programme, might pick up a cheap horse.


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## magic104 (2 November 2010)

Just had a look & have a query on another horse in the catalogue;

Lot 67 ) - VALENTINA GUEST (IRE) (2001) Bay Mare

Be My Guest (USA) Northern Dancer x What A Treat 
Karamiyna (IRE) (1992) Shernazar x Karamita

I thought Be My Guest was born 1974, if so was he still covering in 2000 at the age of 25Yrs


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## sallyf (2 November 2010)

Be my Guest was 30 when he died and its not that unusual for TB stallion to still be covering in there 20's so would be correct


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## S_N (2 November 2010)

Thank you for that   That's good to hear.



woodgnome said:



			At the end of the day, if people are breeding TB's, for either racing or eventing, they should be able to manage a young horse and educate it.
		
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This is true, however, as I am sure you know, TB's are not solely used for the above purpose.  They are often used on native breeds and also on decent all rounders to produce the next generation.  In stallions of any breed, temperament is paramount IMHO.


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## gmandyg123 (7 November 2010)

Mutazayid is well worth the trip to Devon.  He is a very well bred horse with excellent conformation with plenty of bone and a superb temperment.  I  owned a full TB youngster sired by Mutazayid who had both a fabulous trainable temperment, good amount of bone and elastic athletic movement.  I wouldn't hesitate to choose him as a sire for a sports horse or a race horse.


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## gmandyg123 (7 November 2010)

gmandyg123 said:



			Mutazayid is well worth the trip to Devon.  He is a very well bred horse with excellent conformation with plenty of bone and a superb temperment.  I  owned a full TB youngster sired by Mutazayid who had both a fabulous trainable temperment, good amount of bone and elastic athletic movement.  I wouldn't hesitate to choose him as a sire for a sports horse or a race horse.
		
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The youngster I had was very amenable and not remotely difficult to produce in any way.  I would love to have youngsters as easy to produce as he was.


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## doonegate (17 July 2011)

I have a filly from Mutazayid out of my 16.1hh pure American Saddlebred mare. He has the temperment to die for. His manners are impeccable. The filly I have is biddable, well behaved, with vet and farrier, a stunning looker. She stands at 16.2 hh and she's bay, rising 4. She should make 16.3 to 17hh when fully grown. She has already been bitted as a yearling, and saddle on at 2yrs, and lunged in them, not an ounce of trouble with any of it. Also have laid across her back on several occasions, and didn't bother her at all.


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## Bailiwick (31 March 2021)

Just stumbled across this tread, I looked after and rode Mutazayid when he was in training, he came in to us having had a wind op but he was a huge horse and very backwards which is why he didn't race but he had the most amazing kind temperament and was a beautiful mover and fabulous to ride had he not had the wind op he would certainly have made a top class show horse


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## ihatework (31 March 2021)

Bailiwick said:



			Just stumbled across this tread, I looked after and rode Mutazayid when he was in training, he came in to us having had a wind op but he was a huge horse and very backwards which is why he didn't race but he had the most amazing kind temperament and was a beautiful mover and fabulous to ride had he not had the wind op he would certainly have made a top class show horse
		
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That’s really interesting - I had a mutazayid that I sold last year. The most amazing temperament. So so trainable, moved beautifully and had no shabby jump either. He evented to 2* but I did 2 wind ops on him and he still made a noise so was sold to a junior instead of pushing him further. 
These wind issues really do seem to have a genetic link


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## sallyf (31 March 2021)

ihatework said:



			That’s really interesting - I had a mutazayid that I sold last year. The most amazing temperament. So so trainable, moved beautifully and had no shabby jump either. He evented to 2* but I did 2 wind ops on him and he still made a noise so was sold to a junior instead of pushing him further.
These wind issues really do seem to have a genetic link
		
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It was always well known he had a wind issue.  
nowadays it’s easy to check as it has to be declared so if a horse has raced it will be on there. 
sadly there is a stallion standing at the moment that has been graded and if you look at its racing record it’s clear it’s had wind surgery but no mention of it anywhere.


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## ihatework (31 March 2021)

sallyf said:



			It was always well known he had a wind issue. 
nowadays it’s easy to check as it has to be declared so if a horse has raced it will be on there.
sadly there is a stallion standing at the moment that has been graded and if you look at its racing record it’s clear it’s had wind surgery but no mention of it anywhere.
		
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Yeah I suppose if you were in the know, but the horse never raced. Looked more a show type. I’m not sure any horse should be graded with a known wind issue. I’ve seen enough horses manage just fine and do a good job, but I don’t think we should be advocating breeding from those genetics


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## sallyf (1 April 2021)

ihatework said:



			Yeah I suppose if you were in the know, but the horse never raced. Looked more a show type. I’m not sure any horse should be graded with a known wind issue. I’ve seen enough horses manage just fine and do a good job, but I don’t think we should be advocating breeding from those genetics
		
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No that’s right and it wouldn’t have shown on a racing record at that time.  
the thing that bugs me about the relatively newly graded one is that it is on its racing record on racing post and should have been noticed when the grading panel checked out its performance record.  
gelding and wind surgery has to be notified back to weatherbys these day.


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