# foal growing too fast



## Tinks81 (29 September 2011)

My poor little foal is currently having to stay in and not have access to mums feed!! 

He is growing far too quickly (he looked a month old when born) and is standing slightly on his toe!!

have farrier and vet up today to access and see what can be done.  Anyone else had this happen??  What did they do??


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## aimeetb (29 September 2011)

Me!! Mine was 6 months old though, noticed it when i had her but from everything i have read, being told and learnt through dealing with it, i think the best thing to do if he is not ready to be weaned is feed the mom just something low in protein so it doesnt filter through her milk and encourage growth anymore, maybe something like safe and sound and a supplement like surelimb so she is getting all correct minerals and in turn so will baby then restrict their grazing/turnout and just feed hay and water so mom gets lots of fibre without any of the new flush of grass and baby can just nibble on the hay.

Run it by your vet but i think that would be right???

Hope it all turns out ok for you! xxxxx


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## Tinks81 (29 September 2011)

aimeetb said:



			Me!! Mine was 6 months old though, noticed it when i had her but from everything i have read, being told and learnt through dealing with it, i think the best thing to do if he is not ready to be weaned is feed the mom just something low in protein so it doesnt filter through her milk and encourage growth anymore, maybe something like safe and sound and a supplement like surelimb so she is getting all correct minerals and in turn so will baby then restrict their grazing/turnout and just feed hay and water so mom gets lots of fibre without any of the new flush of grass and baby can just nibble on the hay.

Run it by your vet but i think that would be right???

Hope it all turns out ok for you! xxxxx
		
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thanks my farrier noticed a few weeks ago but it started getting slightly worse!! 

I guess i am lucky to have such good grass and hay!!

They have been in till today when vet and farrier are coming, mum has been taken off stud cubes onto normal nuts which are out of reach of baby and hay soaked to get rid of any goodness!! 

he is only 3 1/2 months old x


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## aimeetb (29 September 2011)

Tinks81 said:



			thanks my farrier noticed a few weeks ago but it started getting slightly worse!! 

I guess i am lucky to have such good grass and hay!!

Mum has been taken off stud cubes onto normal nuts which are out of reach of baby and hay soaked to get rid of any goodness!! 

The grass and stud cubes will probably be why, not to worry, im sure it will be fine, you have done the right thing by restricting them and swapping mom to something fibrous - it will make a difference but i would really consider the vit and min supplement, baby is growing so much at the moment with all the bone developing its good to make sure they have all the building blocks they need but without the fuel for growth so stay away from balancers! I'd just go for the powder supplements.

You've done the right thing so far, your vet will advise further but i am sure it will come good in the end! xxx
		
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## Tinks81 (29 September 2011)

i always keep my mares on stud cubes till i wean the foal just this one that has decided to grow too fast!!! 

Just hoping i dont have to wean them now poor little thing x


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## Maesfen (29 September 2011)

You could try taking all hard feed away from the mare completely if you have good grass because she won't need it for production at all and stud cubes are known for their weight gaining properties.  It might just be all that is needed to take the density and goodness out of her feed.    Take advice from your farrier, it might seem harsh to stop all feed but it's for the best in the long run believe me.


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## Tinks81 (29 September 2011)

Maesfen said:



			You could try taking all hard feed away from the mare completely if you have good grass because she won't need it for production at all and stud cubes are known for their weight gaining properties.  It might just be all that is needed to take the density and goodness out of her feed.    Take advice from your farrier, it might seem harsh to stop all feed but it's for the best in the long run believe me.
		
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she is literally on a small handful of normal pony nuts she really would not be impressed if she had nothing at all !!


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## CBFan (29 September 2011)

I think Aimeetb has given you sound advice...

I don't think Stud cubes are as bad as balancers but I would still remove them from the mare's diet and feed a fibre only diet, adding a powder supplement like sure limb or naff youngstock.

it is the excessively high protein levels you really need to be careful of in fast growing babies. you do need protein but only enough to support growth not promote it!


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## Tinks81 (29 September 2011)

CBFan said:



			I think Aimeetb has given you sound advice...

I don't think Stud cubes are as bad as balancers but I would still remove them from the mare's diet and feed a fibre only diet, adding a powder supplement like sure limb or naff youngstock.

it is the excessively high protein levels you really need to be careful of in fast growing babies. you do need protein but only enough to support growth not promote it!
		
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thanks i have never used a balancer on any of my foals anyway and wouldnt even consider it he was just on good grass, good hay and the SC !! 

lets hope we can sort it out today x


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## Sportznight (29 September 2011)

Stud cubes/mixes are far worse than balancers when fed in the quantities advised on the packaging! 

Top advice to cut out ALL hard feed and feed her a chaff (alfalfa would be fine, if not a chopped straw one) and feeding D&H Surelimb (a powder supplement), for the mare.  If the foal is really bad, perhaps get some Bailey's Foal Assist for him - it's a vit/min supplement that you give orally.


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## Maesfen (29 September 2011)

Tinks81 said:



			she is literally on a small handful of normal pony nuts she really would not be impressed if she had nothing at all !!
		
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That isn't the point though, it's your foal you're trying to save and grass alone won't hurt your mare, after all, you have to stop feeding for weaning so she can dry up safely so just what is the difference when she has decent grass to go at?


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## Alec Swan (29 September 2011)

A good post Maesfen,  and you've touched on an interesting point.  Perhaps I can extend it,  with further thoughts,  however I may be shot at!!

Generally,  mares will drop away,  during lactation.  There's a good reason for this.  As the foal grows,  and his protein demands,  presumably either change or increase,  then as the _normal_ milk supply starts to decrease,  so at a natural weaning time,  his reliance upon grass will increase.

I may be wrong,  but I suspect that those who try,  _a little too hard_ to maintain the mare's condition,  could be increasing the milk quality,  beyond the needs of the foal's,  and be heading for the problems which the OP has.

I also accept that some have to keep their mares and foals on virtually bare paddocks.  The management of the mare *and *the foal,  then becomes a little more complicated.

Tinks,  you haven't mentioned the age of the foal,  that I can see,  and though others may disagree with me,  if the foal is at 16 weeks,  then I'd wean now.  It'll check the foal,  he can have a low protein,  but bulk preferenced diet (hay works,  plus vits and minerals),  and the problem can be righted.  There may well be marked growth rings,  in his feet,  following on from weaning,  but that wouldn't bother me,  a great deal.

Will you let us know how he progresses?  Foal growth rates interest me,  and I'm on a learning curve!!  I'd also be interested to hear if others think that I'm talking rubbish!! 

Alec.


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## aimeetb (29 September 2011)

Yay!! I finally got something right!!! LOL

I had all this same advice with mine Tinks from the same people who are replying here and i thought the same (others are fine, why not this one) and oh its a shame not to feed anything but without a doubt, i can honestly say that these folks and the same advice i gave you sorted my baby! She is a strapping thing but the vet complement me on her excellent and correct development, and her problems are now way behind her - got new things now! LOL but what everyone is saying is without doubt the right thing to do!

xxxx


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## vicijp (29 September 2011)

My foals were growing too fast and that was on just grass. I'd hate to think of the state of my mares if they had stud cubes in the summer!


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## Tinks81 (29 September 2011)

Maesfen said:



			That isn't the point though, it's your foal you're trying to save and grass alone won't hurt your mare, after all, you have to stop feeding for weaning so she can dry up safely so just what is the difference when she has decent grass to go at? 

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why because she has always had hard feed all her life and has been with me 12 years - she is a lovely mare and i wouldnt in the mornings when i feed everything else not give her anything that would just stress her out which in turn would not be good for the foal ????? 

a normal plain pony nut is not going to give her a huge amount of anything to be honest ????


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## Tinks81 (29 September 2011)

Alec Swan said:



			A good post Maesfen,  and you've touched on an interesting point.  Perhaps I can extend it,  with further thoughts,  however I may be shot at!!

Generally,  mares will drop away,  during lactation.  There's a good reason for this.  As the foal grows,  and his protein demands,  presumably either change or increase,  then as the _normal_ milk supply starts to decrease,  so at a natural weaning time,  his reliance upon grass will increase.

I may be wrong,  but I suspect that those who try,  _a little too hard_ to maintain the mare's condition,  could be increasing the milk quality,  beyond the needs of the foal's,  and be heading for the problems which the OP has.

I also accept that some have to keep their mares and foals on virtually bare paddocks.  The management of the mare *and *the foal,  then becomes a little more complicated.

Tinks,  you haven't mentioned the age of the foal,  that I can see,  and though others may disagree with me,  if the foal is at 16 weeks,  then I'd wean now.  It'll check the foal,  he can have a low protein,  but bulk preferenced diet (hay works,  plus vits and minerals),  and the problem can be righted.  There may well be marked growth rings,  in his feet,  following on from weaning,  but that wouldn't bother me,  a great deal.

Will you let us know how he progresses?  Foal growth rates interest me,  and I'm on a learning curve!!  I'd also be interested to hear if others think that I'm talking rubbish!! 

Alec.
		
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as i have said i would never not feed her anything she is literally having a handful of normal pony nuts which are low in protein nothing fancy at all!! I have always fed her the same this is her 4th foal now and i have never had a problem in the past with any of them ....... i do not try an feed her up to look good i do know that she will loose condition as she passes everything onto the foal 

He is only 3 1/2 months old and when he was born looked bigger and stronger than the other one that was a month old already!!  i do not want to wean unless i really really have to ..... 

Also they are stabled at night not out on grass 24/7 (due to the mares tendancy to jump the gate if she is left out over night)


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## foxy1 (29 September 2011)

If you stop feeding the mare you have more chance of not having to wean early

I know which option I would choose......


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## Sportznight (29 September 2011)

foxy1 said:



			If you stop feeding the mare you have more chance of not having to wean early

I know which option I would choose......
		
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Hence the advice to feed a chaff product to the mare + supplement.  That way she also gets a bowl of feed at the same time as everyone else   and also gets the vits/mins she needs.


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## CBFan (29 September 2011)

I think OP, you're right... a 'normal plain pony nut' doesn't contain much of anything at all and should be perfectly fine  I would just say that you should keep quantities to a minimum.

I don't think Alec was having a go at you directly, more highlighting a possible cause of these seemingly increasingly widespread problems with growing youngsters to varying degrees.

It is worth baring in mind that it is not just the mare and what you are feeding her that makes a difference. Perhaps there is a genetic weakness on the sire's part (or strength depending on how you look at it) for big 'well grown' offspring... or perhaps it is something to do with this year's climate and grass growth rates / timings? Last winter was a harsh one - perhaps the foal came out big because the mare was supplemented with more hay through the winter because of this? all just possible reasons...

I did a lot of reading and research into this when my filly - her dam's first had physitis and OCD diagnosed at 8 months. the dam's subsequent foal - by a different sire I might add was fine... whether it was genetic, coincidence, feeding, who knows... I think they all play a part to be honest!


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## Tinks81 (29 September 2011)

dont think i have that option actually as vet has said she will still produce milk for him and just get skinnier herself so think weaning may be the only option !!


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## _Samantha_ (29 September 2011)

There have been a lot of sensible suggestions posted on this thread yet you are not willing to take the advise being given to you. 

I'm a bit at a loss as to what you were expecting to get out of this thread if you are not prepared to change your ways. 

I understand what you say about feeding the mare, and not wanting to leave her out but can you not simply turn her and the foal out before feeding the others? After all, it's only for a few weeks/months. 

Anyway that's me off my soapbox. 

Sounds like you have a good broodmare there, doing this one a little too well maybe  I'm sure you'll figure something out that works for all three of you in the end.


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## Tinks81 (29 September 2011)

CBFan said:



			I think OP, you're right... a 'normal plain pony nut' doesn't contain much of anything at all and should be perfectly fine  I would just say that you should keep quantities to a minimum.

I don't think Alec was having a go at you directly more highlighting a possible cause of these seemingly increasingly widespread problems with growing youngsters to varying degrees.

It is worth baring in mind that it is not just the mare and what you are feeding her that makes a difference. Perhaps there is a genetic weakness on the sire's part (or strength depending on how you look at it) for big 'well grown' offspring... or perhaps it is something to do with this year's climate and grass growth rates / timings? Last winter was a harsh one - perhaps the foal came out big because the mare was supplemented with more hay through the winter because of this? all just possible reasons...
		
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The sire is large himself (super Trooper de ness) i have spoken to his old owners and they havent had any problems with any other foals.  

The mare actually lives in October to March (she hates the cold and wet in winter) so no grass and a normal amount of hay 

hopefully the vet and farrier have it under control x


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## Tinks81 (29 September 2011)

_Samantha_ said:



			There have been a lot of sensible suggestions posted on this thread yet you are not willing to take the advise being given to you. 

I'm a bit at a loss as to what you were expecting to get out of this thread if you are not prepared to change your ways. 

I understand what you say about feeding the mare, and not wanting to leave her out but can you not simply turn her and the foal out before feeding the others? After all, it's only for a few weeks/months. 

Anyway that's me off my soapbox. 

Sounds like you have a good broodmare there, doing this one a little too well maybe  I'm sure you'll figure something out that works for all three of you in the end.
		
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They cannot go out at the moment due to this problem so no i cant.  I also feed at 7.30am in the morning before going to work and my groom arrives at 8.30 to turn out the horses - the mare would also just jump back out of the field 

She really does only get a small amount but just been told by the vet this will make no difference as she will still produce milk and loose weight herself meaning weaning may be the only option


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## aimeetb (29 September 2011)

Whatever you decide to do management wise whether in or out or whatever, I think you just need to keep in mind certainly with this particular baby that the mare should have fibre fibre fibre and not protein and a vit and min is a must so baby is getting all the building blocks he needs. The mare wont lose weight badly if she eats as much fibre as you can give her. 

If you do wean then make sure the baby gets vits and mins whether in a lick or supplement in chaff if he is eating it but nothing else. You should see my 18 month old who has only been given chaff and surelimb since 6 months! 

I would add, obviously your choice but being in 24/7 from October till March wouldnt be good for baby as he will need excersize to build strong bone and feet etc. but like i say what ever you do management wise is your lookout but the feeding could save this baby or make it a hell of a lot worse! 

xxxxx


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## Tinks81 (29 September 2011)

aimeetb said:



			Whatever you decide to do management wise whether in or out or whatever, I think you just need to keep in mind certainly with this particular baby that the mare should have fibre fibre fibre and not protein and a vit and min is a must so baby is getting all the building blocks he needs. The mare wont lose weight badly if she eats as much fibre as you can give her. 

If you do wean then make sure the baby gets vits and mins whether in a lick or supplement in chaff if he is eating it but nothing else. You should see my 18 month old who has only been given chaff and surelimb since 6 months! 

I would add, obviously your choice but being in 24/7 from October till March wouldnt be good for baby as he will need excersize to build strong bone and feet etc. but like i say what ever you do management wise is your lookout but the feeding could save this baby or make it a hell of a lot worse! 

xxxxx
		
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Oh i only mean the mare - i would normally wean end of october time and then she doesnt go out after that unless we have lovely sunshine like we do today - she actually doesnt like going out but the worst thing is she just trots up jumps the gate and takes herself into her stable if i do turn her out!! 

foaly normally goes straight out with the other babies and stays there till he is 3yo x 

did you say surelimb is good??


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## CBFan (29 September 2011)

Tinks81 said:



			did you say surelimb is good??
		
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Yes, surelimb is good! one of the original powder supplements - pre balancers!


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## aimeetb (29 September 2011)

Tinks81 said:



			Oh i only mean the mare - i would normally wean end of october time and then she doesnt go out after that unless we have lovely sunshine like we do today - she actually doesnt like going out but the worst thing is she just trots up jumps the gate and takes herself into her stable if i do turn her out!! 

foaly normally goes straight out with the other babies and stays there till he is 3yo x 
QUOTE]

Oh LOL - sorry! Thats great for baby then!! 

Surelimb is fab, smells like milkshake and tastes salty (yes i tried it!) but its been amazing, my filly looks superb, i had vet out the other day for a kick and she said for an 18 month old she is really well muscled!  I said i dont work her or anything! LOL i only walk her out once a week on a headcollar! 

She said no dont worry, she has just developed really well and put it down to the fact that she has always gotten the right vits and mins and amino acids etc for her growth but she is growing nice and slowly, she is 18 months and about 14.3 and a bit bigger behind and only on surelimb and safe and sound and hay at night when she is in.

xxxxx
		
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## Sportznight (29 September 2011)

CBFan said:



			Yes, surelimb is good! one of the original powder supplements - pre balancers!
		
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Indeed, hence all the recommendations.  If the foal is that bad though, the Bailey's foal assist will be the better for him, as you don't need to give it in/on a feed - it is administered in a syringe.  But then I've said this already on this thread, but I know nothing


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## sallyf (29 September 2011)

Sportznight said:



			Indeed, hence all the recommendations.  If the foal is that bad though, the Bailey's foal assist will be the better for him, as you don't need to give it in/on a feed - it is administered in a syringe.  But then I've said this already on this thread, but I know nothing 

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Agree with this foal assist is fabulous and comes in either a liquid or syringe.
If we have anything that starts to look a bit tight in its tendons it goes straight onto foal assist and is usually fine again in a couple of days.


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## shirleyno2 (29 September 2011)

Tinks, wean him! Best for both by sounds of it.


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## Gucci_b (29 September 2011)

Yes, I had to wean my foal at 5 month old, on the advise of my vet because of this reason. Just before I weaned him he started to go up on his front toe (in one leg) he now has the farrier every other week.  He has always looked very well and was always on the milk bar. I never let him have any of mums feed but have read this can be a cause of the mares milk, where the milk is just too good.


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## Tinks81 (30 September 2011)

shirleyno2 said:



			Tinks, wean him! Best for both by sounds of it.
		
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i am tomorrow !!!!! eeeek xx


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## Tinks81 (30 September 2011)

Gucci_b said:



			Yes, I had to wean my foal at 5 month old, on the advise of my vet because of this reason. Just before I weaned him he started to go up on his front toe (in one leg) he now has the farrier every other week.  He has always looked very well and was always on the milk bar. I never let him have any of mums feed but have read this can be a cause of the mares milk, where the milk is just too good.
		
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thanks i am weaning him tomorrow but he is only 3 1/2 months ill take a pic of him this weekend so you can all see how big he is !! I mean he can easily get his head over the stable door x


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## Gucci_b (30 September 2011)

Hope all goes well


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## sallyf (30 September 2011)

Tinks81 said:



			thanks i am weaning him tomorrow but he is only 3 1/2 months ill take a pic of him this weekend so you can all see how big he is !! I mean he can easily get his head over the stable door x
		
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Although not ideal i did wean one at 3 1/2 months a couple of years ago and she managed just fine.
She was well used to haylage and hard feed before we weaned her and she went with an older foal.
She now a strapping very well adjusted 2 year old so hasnt done her any harm.
I did do it with the blessing of my vets as she was a bit younger than ideal but we regularly wean at 4 months and have just done one that was doing to well without any problems.


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## shirleyno2 (1 October 2011)

I just weaned one at 14 weeks, he has eaten all of his mums tail, and I mean ALL, she looks like she's had it clipped and in the space of 2 days her mane was gone too and then I caught the little stinker eating other mares tails, now that much hair can't be healthy! 

How'd you go tinks?


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## Tinks81 (3 October 2011)

all went well i just moved him to the stable next door to mum (which i dont normally like doing) i have a yearling (polo pony) who i am hopefully going to pair him up with as he is about the same size x


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## Rollin (3 October 2011)

Tinks81 said:



			why because she has always had hard feed all her life and has been with me 12 years - she is a lovely mare and i wouldnt in the mornings when i feed everything else not give her anything that would just stress her out which in turn would not be good for the foal ????? 

a normal plain pony nut is not going to give her a huge amount of anything to be honest ????
		
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I understand what you are saying.  My lot are always fed, even the good doers.  It is useful for adding supplements, like sure-limb, magnesium etc and knowing what they are getting.

However, when mine are looking too good some get just a little Safe and Sound with non-molassed s/b and a carrot.  They don't know the difference, and those that need feeding get their Alfa-A and or hard feed.  If you feed nuts, why not just give some Spillers Hi Fibre?


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## rhino (3 October 2011)

Now I have very little knowledge of horse breeding, but find it surprising that people are questioning giving a handful of 'pony nuts' (and assuming that these are standard hi fibre cubes; that's always what they are referred to as IME) and suggesting replacements which have a _higher_ digestible energy..

Am I missing something? (understand that disguising supplements is easier with a chaff)


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