# Darlan Fatal fall at Doncaster :(



## KautoStar1 (4 February 2013)

from the RP website a few minutes ago.  RIP Darlan


	McCoy stands down
Tony McCoy is not injured but he has stood himself down from his two remaining rides at Doncaster today. (9 mins ago)
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Henderson on Darlan
Nicky Henderson was in tears after Darlan's fatal fall and said: "It's some game, isn't it? Why is it always the good ones." (12 mins ago)
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Fatal fall for Darlan
It has been confirmed Darlan took a fatal fall at the last flight at Doncaster in the 32Red Hurdle. (14 mins ago)


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## humblepie (4 February 2013)

So so sad, such a beautiful horse, could just see him in the show ring or eventing.   He was absolutely stuning.


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## Daffodil (4 February 2013)

He looked absolutely magnificent going down to the start.  But there was no way he was going to get up from that.

I do feel that if AP had kept him covered up until over the last and then gone for the line he'd have won easily.   As it was he pulled him out with only a couple of strides to the final flight, got him unbalanced and .......... tragedy.

Condolences to all his connections and particularly his groom. 

RIP Darlan


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## teapot (4 February 2013)

Oh no


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## TelH (4 February 2013)

Horrible fall for a very talented horse  He would have been a major player in the champion hurdle


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## Dobiegirl (4 February 2013)

How very sad to lose such a promising young horse, he had a similar fall at Newbury when Zarkander won, condolences to JP,Nicky,AP and the lad or lass who will have loved him.


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## merrymeasure (4 February 2013)

Very, very sad. Really loved this promising young horse. My sympathies to all his connections. Awful day for them. RIP Darlan x


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## millhouse (4 February 2013)

Tragic.  Rest in peace Darlan.


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## TeamChaser (4 February 2013)

Absolutely gutted 


He was the stand out horse for me when C4 recently toured NJH yard - looked amazing. Only 6 - had a very promising future ahead of him and would have been my tip for the Champion Hurdle after impressive run last time out at Kempton

Horrible end for a super talented horse - condolences to all connected with him


RIP boy xxx


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## MyBoyChe (4 February 2013)

Was watching on ATR,  horrible, horrible sight.  Ive been watching horse racing for over 40 years and I dont think Ive ever seen such a close up shot (not deliberately but it was a 2 horse finish) of a horse falling, or ever been so sure that the horse was not going to get up.  As NJH apparently said afterwards, "its some game"!  Condolences to all connections x


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## olop (4 February 2013)

So so sad he was such a talented little horse and quite a looker too, really feel for all those connected with him they must be in pieces 
RIP Darlan xxx


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## cptrayes (4 February 2013)

He's just one of the many victims of National Hunt racing, isn't he? Entirely predictable that some will die, he's just one of many. It is not relevant to me how good or bad a horse he was; it's no better for a slower horse to die racing than a fast one, other than for the punters and the owners and trainers who expected to make lots more money out of him.


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## Luci07 (4 February 2013)

cptrayes said:



			He's just one of the many victims of National Hunt racing, isn't he? Entirely predictable that some will die, he's just one of many. It is not relevant to me how good or bad a horse he was; it's no better for a slower horse to die racing than a fast one, other than for the punters and the owners and trainers who expected to make lots more money out of him.
		
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Probably not a particular kind or well timed comment at this moment..


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## Alec Swan (4 February 2013)

The most dreadful news.  The Darling Boy.  His Owners,  Trainer,  Jockey and importantly those who dealt with him on a daily basis,  his Lads and Lasses,  have my deepest sympathies.  They must be distraught.

Awful,  and a black day.

a.


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## Alec Swan (4 February 2013)

cptrayes said:



			He's just one of the many victims of National Hunt racing, isn't he? Entirely predictable that some will die, he's just one of many. It is not relevant to me how good or bad a horse he was; it's no better for a slower horse to die racing than a fast one, other than for the punters and the owners and trainers who expected to make lots more money out of him.
		
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cpt,  the trick for you may be to study the art of "Timing".  Yours is out.

Alec.


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## cptrayes (4 February 2013)

Luci07 said:



			Probably not a particular kind or well timed comment at this moment..
		
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It wasn't meant to be.

If you will put horses into a sport which is documented as killing so many of them, I simply don't get the hand-wringing when one of them predictably dies. And especially not the "and he was such a fast racehorse" ones, as if it matters more that he died than a bottom of the heap selling plater.


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## cptrayes (4 February 2013)

Alec Swan said:



			cpt,  the trick for you may be to study the art of "Timing".  Yours is out.

Alec.
		
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Public forum Alec. Go to a Racing forum if you want your grief to pass without comment from another point of view.


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## Luci07 (4 February 2013)

cptrayes said:



			Public forum Alec. Go to a Racing forum if you want your grief to pass without comment from another point of view.
		
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You are of course, fully entitled to your own opinion but choosing now to criticise the owners and associates is poor timing as there will be people who are understandably upset.


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## oldvic (4 February 2013)

Cptrayes - treat others as you would like them to treat you. Darlan's connections are distraught for losing a friend. There are many times that a comment like yours is best left unsaid. This is one of those times.


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## cptrayes (4 February 2013)

Luci07 said:



			You are of course, fully entitled to your own opinion but choosing now to criticise the owners and associates is poor timing as there will be people who are understandably upset.
		
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I have not criticised either the owners or their associates.

I have not, contrary to what you probably think you have read, criticised racing. 

What I have done is comment on emotional hand-wringing over something which is simply part and parcel of everday racing. If we had the same reaction over every NH horse that has died during or because of a race this season then I would understand. But why only this one? Because he was pretty and ran fast?


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## Hedgewitch13 (4 February 2013)

Sorry but I'm with CPTrayes on this one. It is incredibly sad that Darlan has died but he is one of many poor horses that lose their lives because of man's greed. Sad but true I'm afraid and I get sick of people trying to hush it up.

RIP beautiful boy x


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## cptrayes (4 February 2013)

oldvic said:



			Cptrayes - treat others as you would like them to treat you. Darlan's connections are distraught for losing a friend. There are many times that a comment like yours is best left unsaid. This is one of those times.
		
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I have had no contact with Darlan's connections. 

My contact is with you guys wringing your hands over a horse who you never knew. And in that respect I am treating you _exactly_ as I would expect to be treated myself.

I also don't  know any people who expose their _friends_ to such risk and I think it is ridiculous to describe something that is routine in NH racing in that way.


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## angrovestud (4 February 2013)

cptrayes said:



			He's just one of the many victims of National Hunt racing, isn't he? Entirely predictable that some will die, he's just one of many. It is not relevant to me how good or bad a horse he was; it's no better for a slower horse to die racing than a fast one, other than for the punters and the owners and trainers who expected to make lots more money out of him.
		
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Oh You again the sensitive one !

 RIP a Darlan doing what he was bred to do


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## Fools Motto (4 February 2013)

Very sad, lovely horse. Feel for all those connected with him. Luckily, he didn't suffer, it was very quick. RIP hansom.


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## Wagtail (4 February 2013)

cptrayes said:



			It wasn't meant to be.

If you will put horses into a sport which is documented as killing so many of them, I simply don't get the hand-wringing when one of them predictably dies. And especially not the "and he was such a fast racehorse" ones, as if it matters more that he died than a bottom of the heap selling plater.
		
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Completely agree.

It's a tragedy that he died, but no more than any other horse. I hate hearing about these inevitable fatalities.


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## TeamChaser (4 February 2013)

NH racing has it's stars just as any other sport (equine or otherwise) and Darlan was a rising star. Those commenting on here are saddened at the untimely death of this horse and wish to express sympathy to connections. If you don't feel the same, you don't need to read this thread or comment do you? As you say you're perfectly entitled to your opinion as are those of us that feel sorrow at the loss of a lovely young horse. Your comments are ill timed 

As an aside, remember all the coverage on TV after Fabrice Muamba suffered that awful heart attack? A guy I went to school with (I'm 37) collapsed and died last weekend whilst playing football for his local team whilst his partner and 5 month old daughter looked on. I don't imagine outside of my locality there has been much "hand wringing" at that either but obviously he will be deeply mourned by those who love him. Being critical of those expressing the genuine symapthy they feel is unnecessary


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## Wagtail (4 February 2013)

TeamChaser said:



			NH racing has it's stars just as any other sport (equine or otherwise) and Darlan was a rising star. Those commenting on here are saddened at the untimely death of this horse and wish to express sympathy to connections. If you don't feel the same, you don't need to read this thread or comment do you? As you say you're perfectly entitled to your opinion as are those of us that feel sorrow at the loss of a lovely young horse. Your comments are ill timed
		
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On the contrary, I feel dreadful hearing the news of Darlan's death, poor lad. But why do people who profess to love horses put them into such a risky situation? And why is it worse because a horse is famous or promising? The only thing that is worse is that the human connections will be robbed of some glory. Other than that, it is no worse for the horse that is famous, than the horse that is not.


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## TeamChaser (4 February 2013)

Wagtail said:



			On the contrary, I feel dreadful hearing the news of Darlan's death, poor lad. But why do people who profess to love horses put them into such a risky situation? And why is it worse because a horse is famous or promising? The only thing that is worse is that the human connections will be robbed of some glory. Other than that, it is no worse for the horse that is famous, than the horse that is not.
		
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No one is saying it is worse - it is more visible as this was a high profile horse at a high profile time in the racing calender. I feel equally sorry for connections that lose a horse on a rainy Wednesday at Taunton - and I'm sure they feel it just as keenly


It's a shame that these threads always have to turn into a debate on whether anyone connected to the racing world can have any feeling for the horses involved. Pretty narrow view to assume all are just glory hunting, money obsessed sons of Lucifer! BTW, some may be interested to know, AP McCoy wasn't stood down today - he gave up his remainig rides as he was distraught as what happened to Darlan. Nicky Henderson was also in tears. Don't assume you know how these people feel


I love my horses and yet I hack on the roads, I team chase, I hunt .... all of which carry a degree of risk to my horses. I must be an awful, unfeeling bitch ... poor horses


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## oldvic (4 February 2013)

It is desperately sad for any horse. There is risk in any situation. There are horses all over the world that have much worse lives than racehorses who are well fed and cared for. Racehorses are bred and produced to do just that and the vast majority love their job. Without that job they wouldn't be born and I'm sure there are more creatures on this earth that would choose a short life than no life at all.


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## cptrayes (4 February 2013)

TeamChaser said:



			Pretty narrow view to assume all are just glory hunting, money obsessed sons of Lucifer!
		
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Who did that? Not me.




			Don't assume you know how these people feel
		
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I didn't do that either.


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## cptrayes (4 February 2013)

TeamChaser said:



			As an aside, remember all the coverage on TV after Fabrice Muamba suffered that awful heart attack? A guy I went to school with (I'm 37) collapsed and died last weekend whilst playing football for his local team whilst his partner and 5 month old daughter looked on. I don't imagine outside of my locality there has been much "hand wringing" at that either but obviously he will be deeply mourned by those who love him. Being critical of those expressing the genuine symapthy they feel is unnecessary
		
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I don't think it is acceptable to compare the loss felt by people for a human with the death of any animal kept for sport, and only in absolutely exceptional cases for a pet.

Neither is it right, IMO to compare Fabrice Muamba's situation. He chose of his own free will to engage in a sport that turned out to be nearly fatal for him.


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## Holly Hocks (4 February 2013)

Wagtail said:



			And why is it worse because a horse is famous or promising? The only thing that is worse is that the human connections will be robbed of some glory. Other than that, it is no worse for the horse that is famous, than the horse that is not.
		
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So very sad that racing has lost a promising horse, but I do agree with the sentiments above and those of Cptrayes.


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## Alec Swan (4 February 2013)

~Now let me think~~~~~~~

There was someone,  a while back now who had a horse,  a competition horse from memory,  put down.  They came on to this forum and wailed long and loud at their distress.  

I wasn't the only one to offer my condolences.  Feelings which were heart felt,  I'd add.  That same person now seems to think that as in the case of the horse of the moment,  it wasn't their horse,  so it doesn't matter.  That same person seems to argue that if you race horses then you're going to put them at risk.  That same person may care to consider their own "use" of horses.  Should that same person have the temerity to come on to this forum,  bemoaning the loss of another of their own horses,  then I for one will resist the temptation to be churlish,  and along with others will offer my condolences.

Now let me think,  I wonder who that was. 

Alec.


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## Elf On A Shelf (4 February 2013)

The bigger stars win human hearts because of their grit, their determination, their will to win and that oh so rare burst of sheer talent. You may be drawn to them because they won you money, may have looked at you at the side of the paddock, have presence or look pretty. Admiration. That is what humans see in these stars of the turf.

It's human nature the idolise and adore those we see as great - we have worshiped gods for long enough. Why not a horse? Why can complete random strangers with one common factor not mourn those they admire - horse, human, dog, snake, whatever. Sometimes its just nice to know that you are not alone and many others thought great things of your charge.

From someone who has collected the bridle from a much loved, much cherished horse it was kind of comforting in a way to know that I was not alone in mourning a friend. 

The one saving grace in this whole sorry saga is that Darlan knew nothing from the moment his neck hit the ground. 

R.I.P. Darlan - free to race against the stars.


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## oldvic (4 February 2013)

JP McManus has hundreds of horses in training all over England and Ireland and many are not of the highest quality. He is sad if any of them lose their lives. While some get sold to make way for the new intake, others live their lives out in luxury at his stud in Ireland. He is not a glory hunter - seldom interviewed or quoted in the press and never pushes himself forward - and is graceful in defeat as well as victory. He also quietly does a lot for charity and creates a lot of employment. Not the kind of person who would talk badly of others in public either ....


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## cptrayes (4 February 2013)

Alec Swan said:



			There was someone,  a while back now who had a horse,  a competition horse from memory,  put down.  They came on to this forum and wailed long and loud at their distress.
		
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Well that wasn't me Alec.  In the case of a horse I had put down last year, I asked for help in diagnosis, which I got. I received overwhelming support from the forum when he went, mainly because I was banned for using language that a button pusher found offensive when I was accused of putting him down for my benefit and not his.  I thanked people for that support when I got back on the forum.

"Wailed long and loud" is incorrect and I challenge you to find evidence of me doing so. 

His death was also from a congenital defect, a birth defect, and of no connection with the use to which I put him.   He was born with the risk, I did not deliberately expose him to it. 

How eloquently offensive you can be when you choose, Alec dear


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## robthecob (4 February 2013)

I'm with Alec S on this one... CP I'm surprised by your response to this. Your insensitivity is reminiscent of how Suzi whatever her name is responded when you said about your big horse being put down.  I don't know you but I really feel a bit let down by your response it feels like you have set your response to get people's backs up! It clearly wasn't the place was it


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## MyBoyChe (4 February 2013)

This thread is moving along at a fairly predictable rate, those who think racing is wicked and those with a more rational view.  I believe somewhere in The Tack Room there is a thread about a livery yard where a young ex racehorse was PTS after suffering a broken leg in the field, possibly kicked by his field mate.  A horrid accident and Im sure his poor owner is distraught... but it was an accident, the horse was doing what horses do, grazing with his mate. No one is suggesting that he shouldnt have been turned out in order to protect him from danger. Whether we like it or not, and I love NH racing, racehorses are bred to race, its what they do!  The one positive is that Darlan was fatally injured, his death was instant and he would have known nothing about it.  I didnt enjoy what I saw today on the TV, it cast a shadow over a good afternoons racing, but I have to accept that if I watch horses racing at speed I am going to see horses injured and horses die.


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## Clodagh (4 February 2013)

It was an awful fall, but at least it was instant. 

No one has commented on how sad it was for the horse who broke a leg (by the look of things) in the handicap chase a couple of races on...so cpt and wagtail and so on have a point. The lad or lass who did the horse that died an hour later are just as devatated but he wasn't famous, or promising.

I did think it (Darlan) was an avoidable fall, but I couldn't be a jump jockey so who am I to criticise.


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## cptrayes (4 February 2013)

robthecob said:



			I'm with Alec S on this one... CP I'm surprised by your response to this. Your insensitivity is reminiscent of how Suzi whatever her name is responded when you said about your big horse being put down. 

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You think so?

You think that SusieT saying directly to me, on the day before my horse was shot in front of my own eyes in my own yard, that I was putting him down for my own convenience and not for his sake, is as bad as me saying to some anonymous posters on a forum "why all the handwringing about a horse that you do not even know?"

If you think that, you have a completely different value set to my own.


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## AnaV (4 February 2013)

Totally agree with Cptrayes. 
It is foul how many think of the talented horse exploited to run when he /she falls, or sustains an injury when there are thousands upon thousands of more in pain and whos to care. Personally to me the horse which takes most fright from a flapping jockey makes no difference. Be it any horse, what it has achieved is simply extra novelty.


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## Maesfen (4 February 2013)

Very sad and my sympathies go to all of his connections and his lad/lass who knew him best of all.

Alec, your last post was very true and well said.   I despair of anyone being so tactless at a time like this, they wouldn't have liked it if we had said the same to them at their sad time.


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## robthecob (4 February 2013)

But it isn't a thread about how dangerous racing is it was about Darlan!!!!


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## olop (4 February 2013)

For goodness sake all the OP & the majority of the posters of this thread wanted to do was to pay tribute to a horse that lost its life today doing the thing he was bred for.  Regardless of the fact that he was a racehorse & the sport has a lot of risk, he was loved by a lot of people connected to him & also to racing fans, to whom many thought may be something special as he was a champion hurdle contender.
What is that saying, if you havent got something nice to say, dont say it at all??


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## robthecob (4 February 2013)

I think although the circumstances are very different the sentiments are the same... Both yours and Suzi's insensitive comments fit under the "if you don't have anything nice to say comment don't say anything at all" if you don't believe in that then I don't deny that we have very different values..


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## Maesfen (4 February 2013)

Clodagh said:



			No one has commented on how sad it was for the horse who broke a leg (by the look of things) in the handicap chase a couple of races on...so cpt and wagtail and so on have a point. The lad or lass who did the horse that died an hour later are just as devatated but he wasn't famous, or promising.
		
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TBF, I didn't know anything about either fall until I saw this thread and your post was the first to mention another horse but I certainly offer my condolences to his connections too, I'm not one to only want to know the famous.


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## robthecob (4 February 2013)

Or maybe it's manners rather than values CP.. Would you agree whilst your values are good your manners are awful?


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## fizzer (4 February 2013)

What is that saying, if you havent got something nice to say, dont say it at all??


Exactly, a poor horse has died.


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## Delicious_D (4 February 2013)

Why does every single post about racing always desend into arguements....time and place. If you feel that strongly that other people are not seeing the bigger picture, make a NEW thread and we can all discuss it on there if we so wish. For those who did, or did not know this horse, allow people a place to offer condolences without making them feel belittled doing so.

The death of any horse is a tragidy, My friends mare died at 5 years old being lunges, one minute we sent out for the first 2 minutes to warm up, kicked the fence and snapped her pastern off. Didnt stand a chance.

RIP Darlan.


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## Dab (4 February 2013)

Delicious_D said:



			Why does every single post about racing always desend into arguements....time and place. If you feel that strongly that other people are not seeing the bigger picture, make a NEW thread and we can all discuss it on there if we so wish. For those who did, or did not know this horse, allow people a place to offer condolences without making them feel belittled doing so.

RIP Darlan.
		
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DD thank you for saying what i was about to.

Condolences to all Darlan connections


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## Dobiegirl (4 February 2013)

The other horse that died today was called Mujamead, Condolences to connections and although not as successful as Darlan Im sure they are just as devastated.

In regards to the other posters who have not been prepared to pay tribute to these horses but have just chosen  to have a pop at racing I would say there is a time and a place and this isnt it.


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## AnaV (4 February 2013)

It is a tragedy, I simply said one of many. Inevitable, but part of the gruelling racing industry.


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## Zebedee (4 February 2013)

Maesfen said:



			Very sad and my sympathies go to all of his connections and his lad/lass who knew him best of all.

Alec, your last post was very true and well said.   I despair of anyone being so tactless at a time like this, they wouldn't have liked it if we had said the same to them at their sad time.
		
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CPT _ Time & a place.

If you wanted to make comment on the inherent risks of racing starting your own thread may have been a better idea -it would have made an interesting topic if argued in a calm manner. 
The connections may have come on here, & would have perhaps liked to have seen a few pages of people expressing their condolences, rather than the 'discussion' it turned in to. A little sensitivity wouldn't go amiss, even on a 'publc forum'

R I P beautiful Darlan, & heartfelt condolences to those connected with him.


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## It's Me Megan (4 February 2013)

Dobiegirl said:



			The other horse that died today was called Mujamead, Condolences to connections and although not as successful as Darlan Im sure they are just as devastated.

In regards to the other posters who have not been prepared to pay tribute to these horses but have just chosen  to have a pop at racing I would say there is a time and a place and this isnt it.

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Also dear old Desert Vision at Wolverhampton  Placed in the top 3 for his last 7 starts, sadly his lad / lass will have an empty box tomorrow. Condolences to _all _their connections


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## cptrayes (4 February 2013)

Zebedee said:



			If you wanted to make comment on the inherent risks of racing
		
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I didn't. I wanted to make a comment on the hypocrisy of bemoaning the death of one horse because it was attractive and won, when so many die. Three in one day today, I see now.

If there was a Rainbow Bridge thread acknowledging every racehorse that died in a race or was put down later for injuries sustained during a race, I would not have commented on this one. 

It is the feeling that somehow the loss of this horse is worthy of comment when the rest aren't that raised my hackles.


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## Zebedee (4 February 2013)

Most of us didn't know that there were other fatal falls today. I've worked with racehorses and have been one of those lasses who has had to go home to an empty box. I also used to work in a bookies. These days I might watch the odd Saturday afternoons if I'm lucky, but don't you dare try an infer that anyone on here doesn't feel sympathy for each and every one of the connections of the horses who didn't make it today. However this thread was specifically about DARLAN, so it was hardly inappropriate for people to express their sympathies in relation to him, rather than those others was it?


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## Baggybreeches (4 February 2013)

It's Me Megan said:



			Also dear old Desert Vision at Wolverhampton  Placed in the top 3 for his last 7 starts, sadly his lad / lass will have an empty box tomorrow. Condolences to _all _their connections 

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That's the thing that the anti racing brigade forget, is there is a lad or a lass who has lost one of their horses, I know that awful empty feeling and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.
Thoughts with everyone who has lost one today (including my friend who lost her dressage horse today)


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## minesadouble (4 February 2013)

cptrayes said:



			I didn't. I wanted to make a comment on the hypocrisy of bemoaning the death of one horse because it was attractive and won, when so many die. Three in one day today, I see now.

If there was a Rainbow Bridge thread acknowledging every racehorse that died in a race or was put down later for injuries sustained during a race, I would not have commented on this one. 

It is the feeling that somehow the loss of this horse is worthy of comment when the rest aren't that raised my hackles.
		
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Probably the reason this is 'worthy of comment' is that Darlan was more publicly known than the other two horses, the same way Call Again Cavalier was more 'worthy of comment' than some unknown novice eventer who lost his life, the same way that when Princess Diana was killed it was talked about for years whereas if it were you or I it would not be of interest to the media.

This horse was one of main contenders for the Champion Hurdle for God's sake,  I mean, really, is it so hard to work out?? 

My sympathies go out to those poor horses lost today and to their connections who are no doubt devastated.


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## cptrayes (4 February 2013)

Zebedee said:



			don't you dare try an infer that anyone on here doesn't feel sympathy for each and every one of the connections of the horses who didn't make it today.
		
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I didn't.


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## AnaV (4 February 2013)

My sympathy does go out to those who cared for the horse and laid awake restless at night over him.


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## Delicious_D (4 February 2013)

Cpt - i am rapidly losing respect for you as a poster. I felt sympathy when you lost your horse to wobblers - it was awful and i felt for you. But no one here ever stated one horse's death was worse then another. I do feel for you for the loss of your horse, but you cannot really go around this forum posting spiteful and strong opinions then get upset when other peoples 'hackles' are raised.


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## AnaV (4 February 2013)

The truth hurts doesn't it? 
Funny how you interpreted cptrayes to be upset over 'hackles', when she was just raising a somelmn fact, which is true.


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## justabob (4 February 2013)

AnaV said:



			The truth hurts doesn't it? 
Funny how you interpreted cptrayes to be upset over 'hackles', when she was just raising a somelmn fact, which is true.
		
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## Delicious_D (4 February 2013)

AnaV said:



			The truth hurts doesn't it? 
Funny how you interpreted cptrayes to be upset over 'hackles', when she was just raising a somelmn fact, which is true.
		
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No, she mentions having her hackles raised becuase one horses death is being mourned more then another...

No, the truth doesnt hurt..what an odd thing to say


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## cptrayes (4 February 2013)

Delicious_D said:



			Cpt - i am rapidly losing respect for you as a poster ........ you cannot really go around this forum posting spiteful and strong opinions then get upset when other peoples 'hackles' are raised.
		
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You are completely anonymous, I do not know you at all. Can you explain to me why I should care what your opinion of me is? 

I am not upset. 

Strong opinions are still legal in this country 

"Spiteful" is rather a nasty word to use, says more about you than me, I think, if you call rational argument spite.  


Can I suggest that if people want to get this thread back on track that they exercise the option of not answering me?


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## AnaV (4 February 2013)

I recall you writing, do not get upset when one horse's death is raised when others are dismissed basically. She simply stated her point of view right at the begining, I was in agreement because it is true. The majority of those with no connections to horses which die on and off the track just pay respect to those who have 'achieved' something.


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## Delicious_D (4 February 2013)

cptrayes said:



			You are completely anonymous, I do not know you at all. Can you explain to me why I should care what your opinion of me is? 

I am not upset. 

Strong opinions are still legal in this country 

"Spiteful" is rather a nasty word to use, says more about you than me, I think, if you call rational argument spite.  


Can I suggest that if people want to get this thread back on track that they exercise the option of not answering me?
		
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Lovely attitude you have there


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## Zebedee (4 February 2013)

Zebedee said:



			don't you dare try an infer that anyone on here doesn't feel sympathy for each and every one of the connections of the horses who didn't make it today.
		
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cptrayes said:



			I didn't.
		
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Yes you did...........



cptrayes said:



			It is the feeling that somehow the loss of this horse is worthy of comment when the rest aren't that raised my hackles.
		
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## Roasted Chestnuts (4 February 2013)

Oh god!!!! Seriously people!!! Why not those who dislike racing just stay away from these threads and let those who want to comiserate do so??

I hate it when people hide behind the whole 'open forum' comment just to give them a reason. I respect people have views that dont go with racing, also have that with hunting, NH, Non-NH, Shoes, BF the list goes on and on and on but just because you can say summat dont mean you have to. I have a lot of respect for certain of the members having a go on this thread but please if you dont like a topic then why go on and have a go when people will undoubtably be upset. you dont see this sort of reaction on Eventing horses being PTS after a fall on a course, or SJ's who have heart attacks/falls.

He was a gorgeous horse and a great talent. RIP.


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## KautoStar1 (4 February 2013)

The point of the post was to express sadness at the loss of a talented horse not to debate the merits or otherwise of NH racing.  
CTP seems to make a habit of engaging in endless pointless debates with anyone who doesn't agree with his\her point of view - very much my way or the highway. 
As someone who has over the years been to many NH meetings I can assure you the loss of any horse is felt deeply by not just the immediate connections but also the paying crowd. Lots of times when horses have fallen, the crowds have stayed in the grandstands waiting to see if the fallen horse gets up. The wave of relief when they do is heartfelt and the sadness when they don't is equal. I remember seeing Our Vic take a crashing fall at Cheltenham & the roar of the crowd when he got to his feet and emerged from behind the screens was touching.  & like EKW I've come home without a horse and its heartbreaking for all concerned.


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## cptrayes (4 February 2013)

Zebedee, 

Your quotes are not related. The "loss of this horse is worthy of comment" related to comment by posters on this thread. 

Posters on this thread may well feel equally sympathetic to the connections of every dead racehorse, but they only commented on the one. That is the only point that I made. 

Isn't it time you started to ignore me and get the thread back where you wanted it?


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## cptrayes (4 February 2013)

KautoStar1 said:



			CTP seems to make a habit of engaging in endless pointless debates with anyone who doesn't agree with his\her point of view - very much my way or the highway. .
		
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Actually I make a habit of engaging in debates that I find interesting, and I do not find them pointless. I am always amused that I am accused of debating with people who don't agree with my point of view. There wouldn't be a debate otherwise, would there? There's always someone on the other end who doesn't agree with mine. That's what makes a debate.


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## cptrayes (4 February 2013)

KautoStar1 said:



			I can assure you the loss of any horse is felt deeply by not just the immediate connections but also the paying crowd.
		
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Felt "deeply" by the crowd? Your definition of deeply differs from mine. 

"Deeply" is how my other half felt when I took him to Haydock one day and the green screens came out. He refuses ever to attend another race and if you think I am against racing, you should hear him. He wants it banned. I don't think it's that simple.  But on that day, the overwhelming majority of the crowd didn't react at all, and I'll be he is one of the very few people who left that course that day and ever thought about that horse again.


For people who didn't want this thread to degenerate into a discussion about racing, you're all doing a great job of perpetuating it.


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## Partridg3 (4 February 2013)

I love racing but I hate this part of it. RIP the 3 beautiful souls who lost their lives today.


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## Delicious_D (4 February 2013)

Oh do shut up cpt


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## Wagtail (4 February 2013)

I wonder what the chances are of any NH horse dying as a result of the sport? Say their career is seven years. What is the chance that they would die due to it? What percent come out of the sport to a retirement?

Yes, everything we do with horses is risky, but nothing compares to NH racing. Yes, I feel for the connections of the dead horses, but they have the option of avoiding being in that situation. The horses do not.


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## Moomin1 (4 February 2013)

I must admit, CPT does make a valid point.


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## dressedkez (4 February 2013)

cptrayes said:



			I have not criticised either the owners or their associates.

I have not, contrary to what you probably think you have read, criticised racing. 

What I have done is comment on emotional hand-wringing over something which is simply part and parcel of everday racing. If we had the same reaction over every NH horse that has died during or because of a race this season then I would understand. But why only this one? Because he was pretty and ran fast?
		
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Every time one of our noble steeds goes into the arena of horse racing - they are at risk.....I have done it at much lower level (but as high risk with my pointers) it does not make the loss any sadder - but the sport is to some extent death or glory - it is the risk we all acknowledge - for Darlan, no pain, only death nd (glory) for everyone else ghastly - but these top of the grade racehorses die at their peak (if they do) worry far more about those who have glory, then what next?


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## Elf On A Shelf (4 February 2013)

Horses die in their stables. Let's all change around to debate about the safety of stables.


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## Hunters (4 February 2013)

We had a horse die because it walked backwards in a field and cut it's self on a Flint. It happens.

Very sad news today


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## Orangehorse (4 February 2013)

I can't see any difference between a racehorse being killed on the track and a hunter being fatally injured or an eventer or show jumper.  They are all doing the job they were bred for, and giving enjoyment to their owners.

So if an eventer is killed, do we ban eventing?  Or a horse killed out hunting, do we all hunt on foot after that. A show jumper gets tangled in a fence and breaks his leg - ban all show jumping?

Darlan was an exciting, successful racehorse, a personality because he was successful.
Poor boy, sympathy to the owners and connections.


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## Moomin1 (4 February 2013)

Orangehorse said:



			I can't see any difference between a racehorse being killed on the track and a hunter being fatally injured or an eventer or show jumper.  They are all doing the job they were bred for, and giving enjoyment to their owners.

So if an eventer is killed, do we ban eventing?  Or a horse killed out hunting, do we all hunt on foot after that. A show jumper gets tangled in a fence and breaks his leg - ban all show jumping?

Darlan was an exciting, successful racehorse, a personality because he was successful.
Poor boy, sympathy to the owners and connections.
		
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I think the point is that rather more racehorses end up worse off than showjumpers/eventers etc etc.  

I do see your sentiment though, and yes it's a fine line.


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## dolly-daydream (5 February 2013)

Its not just the jumpers either, a lovely flat horse on the all weather track also fell today, and was PTS 3 horses in one day, dreadful.


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## Maesfen (5 February 2013)

Moomin1 said:



			I think the point is that rather more racehorses end up worse off than showjumpers/eventers etc etc.  

I do see your sentiment though, and yes it's a fine line.
		
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But what about the normal horses who get killed in their fields, their stables or at the hands of morons that own them.  Accidents happen to all sorts of horses at any time in their lives on a daily basis but you don't say stop turning it out, stop riding it, stop stabling it and so on.  Accidents happen but racehorses and other competitive horses are in the limelight doing what they were bred for and enjoy, giving huge pleasure to those connected with them and the spectators which is why you hear far more about them but in the general way of things there are far less killed competitively than from normal living conditions which needs putting in perspective.


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## Merrymoles (5 February 2013)

I, too, have sympathy for Darlan's connections. That is not because I value Darlan above any other horse that died on the day but because his name was known to me. I am long away from racing and don't really follow it much these days but I had read about Darlan's talent and about his connections' hopes for him.

Naturally, I have sympathy for anyone who loses a horse, whether racing, hunting or through illness, but it does "chime" more when I read a name that I know. Likewise, I felt the loss of Synchronised, simply because his big white face appealed to me.

On many occasions I have passed on my condolences to HHO members on the loss of their horses. I don't know any of them as far as I know but I recognise their distress and hope that the support they are shown may help to mitigate it slightly.

I think the comments from the OP and others are simply a way of recognising that Darlan made an impact on them personally in one way or another. I see it as a tribute, rather than hand-wringing.


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## Alec Swan (5 February 2013)

moleskinsmum said:



			.......

On many occasions I have passed on my condolences to HHO members on the loss of their horses. I don't know any of them as far as I know but I recognise their distress and hope that the support they are shown may help to mitigate it slightly.

........
		
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How right you are,  and well said.  Condolences are really no more than mutterings.  They're simply an expression of understanding,  and that the loss of an animal is an understood and accepted grief.

I can't believe that the loss of anyone's pride and joy is any more acceptable or not,  than the loss of any horse.  Darlan stood out and he was in the public eye.  He was of no more or less loss than the horse which was lost,  by cpt for instance,  and that was my point.  We are all sorry,  we all regret and empathise with the losses.  It's what we do.

I shot a youngster at weaning last year,  and it still hurts.  I was very attached to him,  and he to me.  I didn't seek sympathy on here,  preferring to keep my own counsel.  I understand that others find it easier to vent their feelings.  That's fine too,  and I will commiserate with them.  We aren't all the same! 

Alec.


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## fizzer (5 February 2013)

Well put across Alec.


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## cptrayes (5 February 2013)

Orangehorse said:



			I can't see any difference between a racehorse being killed on the track and a hunter being fatally injured or an eventer or show jumper.  They are all doing the job they were bred for, and giving enjoyment to their owners.

So if an eventer is killed, do we ban eventing?  Or a horse killed out hunting, do we all hunt on foot after that. A show jumper gets tangled in a fence and breaks his leg - ban all show jumping?
		
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It's the percentages that make the difference. According to the official racing statistics the death rate on the racetrack is 1 in 250 starts. 

If you applied that to eventing there would be one horse death for nearly every single day of BE eventing. I am pretty certain that BE would stop running if this was the case.

If you applied it to showjumping, it would probably be what, about one for every two days competition? I think the public would have a problem stomaching that one too, if a four day meet reliably killed two horses. 

Every Olympics would mean the death of several horses. I do not believe that the Olympic committee would continue to include horse events if that was the case.

I can see the argument, but there is a point where the risk is unacceptable. For example, I cannot see that anyone would continue to run NH racing if the death rate was 75%. So we are not arguing about  _whether_ too many horse deaths are acceptable. We are arguing about _where_ our personal view of the acceptable level of risk is.


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## cptrayes (5 February 2013)

Alec Swan said:



			He was of no more or less loss than the horse which was lost,  by cpt for instance,  and that was my point.
		
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I can't agree with this, sorry Alec. I do not accept that the loss of a racehorse that he owns and sees only occasionally by J P McManus in any way compares with the loss of a horse which I personally spent several hours a day with, and who I taught almost everything he knew for 6 years and who was responsible also for a large proportion of my social life in attending riding functions with friends and acquaintances. I don't think I am special in this, I do not think his, the trainer's or the jockey's loss in any way compares to the loss suffered by a long term owner of a single "companion" horse. The groom is likely to be most affected, but still nothing to compare with an average Riding Clubber owner.


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## cptrayes (5 February 2013)

deleted


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## Alec Swan (5 February 2013)

cptrayes said:



			....... I do not accept that the loss of a racehorse that he owns and sees only occasionally by J P McManus in any way compares with the loss of a horse which I personally spent several hours a day with, and who I taught almost everything he knew for 6 years and who ................
		
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Just so that I understand you,  are you saying that the loss of your horse was a greater loss than an animal which was owned by a wealthy man?

It's what you seem to have said.  I do hope that it isn't what you mean.

Alec.


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## Moomin1 (5 February 2013)

Alec Swan said:



			Just so that I understand you,  are you saying that the loss of your horse was a greater loss than an animal which was owned by a wealthy man?

It's what you seem to have said.  I do hope that it isn't what you mean.

Alec.
		
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Oh come on Alec, it doesn't take Einstein to understand CPT's post.

She is saying that the amount of feeling/sense of emotional loss is hardly comparible between somebody who hardly ever sees the horse/have any involvement in their daily care, to somebody who spends hours each day looking after them.


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## cptrayes (5 February 2013)

Alec Swan said:



			Just so that I understand you,  are you saying that the loss of your horse was a greater loss than an animal which was owned by a wealthy man?

It's what you seem to have said.  I do hope that it isn't what you mean.

Alec.
		
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Gosh you didn't read my post very well did you Alec?

It has absolutely nothing to do with his wealth. It is entirely to do with how much his life was actually involved and entwined with his horse. That is related to how much time he spent with him, how much he actually did with him, how much he taught him, whether he fed and groomed him and nursed him when he was sick, took a personal decision to end his life, etc etc etc.

Again can I stress this is nothing to do with me. I am barely upset now about the horse I lost, but I am a fairly unemotional person. Most owners that I know are distraught for a long time; some for years; some forever. 

Will Mcmanus, Nicholson and McCoy really still be crying about that horse in a year's time?


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## Elf On A Shelf (5 February 2013)

cptrayes said:



			The groom is likely to be most affected,* but still nothing to compare with an average Riding Clubber owner.*

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Would you like to come over here and say that?!? We put our heart and soul into our charges. We treat them like our own. They have everything in our power to give them. We take immense pride in seeing them stride out onto the track all stripped and rppling with muscle knowing that we have done the best job we possibly could for our horse. Ok we may get a little peeved if they don't win and we thought that they should've - so does your average riding clubber - but we are always happiest when our horse comes home safe and sound regardless of where they finished.

I got a call at 11pm last night telling me that one of my charges had done himself some serious damage in his stable and had been put down. I had worked with that horse for 3 years, I knew his quirks, his moods, his habbits, his likes, dislikes. He had a certain way that he needed brushed or he would quite literally take your head off with his teeth. He was also very handy with his back feet too. There were only 3 people who could do anything with that horse 95% of the time and I feel totally and utterly privileged that he trusted me and never once even so much as swotted me with his tail. He owed me nothing and I owed him everything. When I walked into his box ths morning I broke down because he didn't great me with his usual teeth nash and head toss. I am still in tears. He truly was an amaing horse to deal with and he is no longer there. No he wasn't the greatest of racehorses on paper but to me he was. And do you know what hurts the most? The fact that he injured himself in a place he was supposed to be safe and it took just over an hour to diagnose, discuss and do the final deed. You may not agree with me on this, in fact I know you won't, but in all honest truth I would much rather he went the way Darlan did. Doing something he loved and not knowing what was happening to hm. 

Don't you *DARE* ever try to say that even the stable staff don't care for their horses as much as your general bog standard riding club owner!


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## teapot (5 February 2013)

I was just about to say to CPT - tell that and the attitude to someone like EKW. Sorry about your latest loss 

And actually CPT if you read McCoy's first autobiography you can clear see how much he cares about the horses he rides and loses, Gloria Victus being one such example


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## cptrayes (5 February 2013)

EKW said:



			I had worked with that horse for 3 years, I knew his quirks, his moods, his habbits, his likes, dislikes. He had a certain way that he needed brushed or he would quite literally take your head off with his teeth. He was also very handy with his back feet too. There were only 3 people who could do anything with that horse 95% of the time and I feel totally and utterly privileged that he trusted me and never once even so much as swotted me with his tail. He owed me nothing and I owed him everything. When I walked into his box ths morning I broke down because he didn't great me with his usual teeth nash and head toss. I am still in tears. He truly was an amaing horse to deal with and he is no longer there.
		
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Then you fit the pattern of the kind of owner I was describing, and have no need to be so angry with me, since I am clearly not talking about the kind of relationship that you had with that horse.  I had to use some kind of term to describe what I meant, but surely you can see that your relationship with that horse was a world away from JP Mcmanus's relationship with Darlan?

I'm sorry you are upset, but I fully understand why you are so upset, because you looked after that horse like a Riding Clubber looks after theirs - personally.


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## Nicnac (5 February 2013)

Well said EKW.

I have been reading this thread since it was first posted yesterday but haven't commented as it quickly descended into the type of HHO thread I detest i.e. 180 degrees from original post.

RIP Darlan - taken too soon like so many whether on/off the track right through to a beloved shetland belonging to a child.


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## cptrayes (5 February 2013)

teapot said:



			I was just about to say to CPT - tell that and the attitude to someone like EKW. Sorry about your latest loss 

And actually CPT if you read McCoy's first autobiography you can clear see how much he cares about the horses he rides and loses, Gloria Victus being one such example
		
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I don't doubt that he cares.

But does he care as much as someone who mucks out, feeds and rides their own and only horse every day?

I don't believe he does, because if he suffered that much pain when one died he would simply not be able to put himself back into a situation where he knows that it will happen time after time after time.


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## cptrayes (5 February 2013)

EKW said:



			You may not agree with me on this, in fact I know you won't, but in all honest truth I would much rather he went the way Darlan did. Doing something he loved and not knowing what was happening to hm.
		
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Of course I agree, I would rather my hunter broke his neck falling over a hedge than broke his leg in the field. 




			Don't you *DARE* ever try to say that even the stable staff don't care for their horses as much as your general bog standard riding club owner!
		
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If this is not true, then I cannot understand how anyone can work in the racing industry with the wastage rates that there are and go back into work again after each loss.

If you add the horses which are shot because of injury after they get back home, the average groom in a large racing stables must surely lose a horse on a fairly regular basis? If that hurts as much as it hurts the one horse owner to lose a horse they have personally cared for and ridden for ten or twenty years then I simply cannot understand how anyone could do the job and stay sane.


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## EllenJay (5 February 2013)

cptrayes said:



			I can't agree with this, sorry Alec. I do not accept that the loss of a racehorse that he owns and sees only occasionally by J P McManus in any way compares with the loss of a horse which I personally spent several hours a day with, and who I taught almost everything he knew for 6 years and who was responsible also for a large proportion of my social life in attending riding functions with friends and acquaintances. I don't think I am special in this, I do not think his, the trainer's or the jockey's loss in any way compares to the loss suffered by a long term owner of a single "companion" horse. The groom is likely to be most affected, but still nothing to compare with an average Riding Clubber owner.
		
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I have avoided these sort of arguments about the rights and wrongs of racing - but this comment has left me gob-smacked.  

How one earth can YOU determine the levels of someones grief.  Are you saying that someone who keeps their horse on DIY cares more for the animal than someone who keeps their horse on full livery - as the person on full livery is slightly more removed.


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## fizzer (5 February 2013)

I am barely upset now about the horse I lost, but I am a fairly unemotional person. Most owners that I know are distraught for a long time; some for years; some forever. 



How can you comment/judge on anyones's level of grief when you have posted this. Unbelievable.


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## Alec Swan (5 February 2013)

cptrayes said:



			.......I do not accept that the loss of a racehorse that he owns and sees only occasionally by J P McManus in any way compares with the loss of a horse which I personally spent several hours a day with, and who........
		
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Moomin1 said:



			Oh come on Alec, it doesn't take Einstein to understand CPT's post.
.......
		
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You're right,  it doesn't.  All it takes is someone with a very basic grasp of the English language to understand that a horse owned by a wealthy man doesn't *in any way compare with the loss of of a horse which I personally...... etc.* means,  exactly what it says.



cptrayes said:



			Gosh you didn't read my post very well did you Alec?

.......
		
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I read and understood your words very well,  as did others.  I will tell you again,  your loss was no greater than that of McManus,  Henderson,  McCoy or EKW,  and you have no right to claim otherwise.

I shall leave this thread,  you'll be pleased to hear,  and as equally pleased,  I shan't bother to read further replies. 

Alec.


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## cptrayes (5 February 2013)

EllenJay said:



			I have avoided these sort of arguments about the rights and wrongs of racing - but this comment has left me gob-smacked.  

How one earth can YOU determine the levels of someones grief.  Are you saying that someone who keeps their horse on DIY cares more for the animal than someone who keeps their horse on full livery - as the person on full livery is slightly more removed.  

Click to expand...



I think that would depend on the people and the horses involved. But I doubt if either can seriously be compared with an owner who owns a string of horses which he has probably never even brushed or hoof picked in their lives, never rides, and sees mainly from a distance on a few occasions a year. 

If you do, fine. But I really can't see JP McManus, Nicholson or the groom  crying over this horse in a year's time, otherwise they'd be constantly in tears over the number of horses which have died or been put down for injury in their time involved with them.


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## Moomin1 (5 February 2013)

Alec Swan said:



			You're right,  it doesn't.  All it takes is someone with a very basic grasp of the English language to understand that a horse owned by a wealthy man doesn't *in any way compare with the loss of of a horse which I personally...... etc.* means,  exactly what it says.



I read and understood your words very well,  as did others.  I will tell you again,  your loss was no greater than that of McManus,  Henderson,  McCoy or EKW,  and you have no right to claim otherwise.

I shall leave this thread,  you'll be pleased to hear,  and as equally pleased,  I shan't bother to read further replies. 

Alec.
		
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Forgive me if I am mistaken, but I cannot see where CPT has remotely made any connection between his wealth, and his sorrow over the loss of his horse?

I read the post as talking about level of involvement, care, daily interaction, having an impact on the amount of emotional involvement somebody would have.


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## cptrayes (5 February 2013)

Alec Swan said:



			You're right,  it doesn't.  All it takes is someone with a very basic grasp of the English language to understand that a horse owned by a wealthy man doesn't *in any way compare with the loss of of a horse which I personally...... etc.* means,  exactly what it says.
		
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Alec you are the only one who has referred to his wealth. His wealth is irrelevant, which is why I never mentioned it.


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## dancingkris (5 February 2013)

In relation to the earlier post regarding the numbers of horses which die on a racecourse compared to showjumping/eventing etc - of course the numbers of racehorses being killed 'in action' are going to be higher. On average there are probably upwards of 150-200 horses PER DAY competing in races - in the public eye, televised for all to see. How many horses are competing in top level showjumping or eventing in the UK per day - certainly not as many as are racing. Racing is 7 days a week, most days of the year - other equestrian disciplines aren't - if the same numbers were competing as much I'm sure the fatality levels would be on a par with horses killed whilst racing. 

There may well be horses killed competing at lower levels of SJ-ing/eventing/hunting every day - but who'd ever know as the results aren't there immediately for everyone to see - the sports can't be compared as racing is so much more transparent and accessible to everyone. Yet no one jumps on the bandwagon and spouts about the wastage in the other equestrian disciplines. Sadly for the racing industry if a horse is killed its there in the open straight away and there is no hiding from it. The same as people talk about the levels of wastage in racing and horses that don't make the grade - if eventers and sport horses were bred on the same levels and quantities as racehorses surely there would be similar levels of wastage - the fact is the numbers for other industries will never compare and levels of anything will always be higher in racing due to the fact there are far more racehorses being bred and trained than in any other equestrian discipline.

For what its worth, having worked in racing I can quite assure the doubters that everyone involved will be feeling Darlan's loss deeply. The same as they would be if he was useless and just ran to give his owners a day out. The guy who bred him is a good friend of mine and is devastated at his loss - he didn't own him anymore, had nothing to do with his training or looking after him but still cared. It really winds me up when non racing people assume that us racing people don't care and we are somehow less of a horsey person than they are.


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## Dab (5 February 2013)

cptrayes said:



			I think that would depend on the people and the horses involved. But I doubt if either can seriously be compared with an owner who owns a string of horses which he has probably never even brushed or hoof picked in their lives, never rides, and sees mainly from a distance on a few occasions a year. 

If you do, fine. But I really can't see JP McManus, Nicholson or the groom  crying over this horse in a year's time, otherwise they'd be constantly in tears over the number of horses which have died or been put down for injury in their time involved with them.
		
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the biggest mistake you are making here is only seeing this from your own very narrow view point of how you personally gain pleasure and enjoyment from your horses....there are others who gain just as much enjoyment and pleasure from a horse by just watching it race or compete etc and you do a massive disservice to all of the owners around the country. but clearly for you, only having direct contact with the animal wins you the right to grieve or have feelings for it, i on the other hand disagree with you.


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## Dobiegirl (5 February 2013)

For people who didn't want this thread to degenerate into a discussion about racing, you're all doing a great job of perpetuating it.[/QUOTE]


You have a total lack of empathy and youve also shown yourself to be beligerent to the extreme by posting on this thread when you well know it was a tribute. Anyone else who thought different would have started another thread but not you, you do like to stir dont you.
EKW Im really sorry for your loss and can well understand how difficult going into work was this morning, hugs to you x


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## cptrayes (5 February 2013)

dancingkris said:



			Racing is 7 days a week, most days of the year - other equestrian disciplines aren't - if the same numbers were competing as much I'm sure the fatality levels would be on a par with horses killed whilst racing.
		
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They wouldn't DK. 

The industry itself quotes 1 in 250 starters. There are an average of 200 starters for every day of BE. I have done BE myself and have numerous friends who do BE and to my knowledge, not one of us has ever been at an event and seen or heard of the death of a horse on the showjumping or cross country course. There is also plenty of televised showjumping again now, and I have only ever seen one horse die on screen and that was a heart attack unrelated to the event. There was one death at the first high level arena eventing competition and it has never been held at that level again. 

The proportion of deaths in competition is definitely far higher  for National Hunt Racing than for any other discipline. 

I think racing "gets away" with it in the public eye because the race carries on and the camera goes with it. If that _proportionate_ number of deaths happened in other televised  equestrian disciplines being watched in close-up focussed on the one horse, those sports would in my opinion certainly die as televised events, and I believe they would stop altogether.


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## Partridg3 (5 February 2013)

Well I can only comment regarding the syndicate I know and believe me they couldn't give a stuff what happens to a poor one. I know of 2 that have disappeared thanks to the trainer and one got dumped on me. Once injured or no good they want rid so they can buy the next one. They certainly wouldn't shed a tear...unless it was making them a mint and winning loads of races.


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## Dab (5 February 2013)

Partridg3 said:



			Well I can only comment regarding the syndicate I know and believe me they couldn't give a stuff what happens to a poor one. I know of 2 that have disappeared thanks to the trainer and one got dumped on me. Once injured or no good they want rid so they can buy the next one. They certainly wouldn't shed a tear...unless it was making them a mint and winning loads of races.
		
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and you only have to look at the amount of equines in rescue charities and at the abottoirs across the country to understand that it doesnt just apply to racing syndicates or racing owners...it is across the board from your riding club owner to your horse hoarder!.....

but i apologise to all of Darlan's connections for entering into an arguement on a tribute thread. sorry and i will bow out....


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## justabob (5 February 2013)

Partridg3 said:



			Well I can only comment regarding the syndicate I know and believe me they couldn't give a stuff what happens to a poor one. I know of 2 that have disappeared thanks to the trainer and one got dumped on me. Once injured or no good they want rid so they can buy the next one. They certainly wouldn't shed a tear...unless it was making them a mint and winning loads of races.
		
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You seem to be talking about a syndicate that has little regard for the horses  that they have in training. I am sure there are many such syndicates of non horsey people who are only concerned about winners. I really dont think that you can tarr all owners with the same brush. I certainly also don't for one moment think that your rather depressing slant on racing has anything to do with this thread and the homage that HHOers wanted to pay to the truly talented horse Darlan.


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## ILuvCowparsely (5 February 2013)

Does it really matter who likes racing - who thinks its cruel  -  whether the owner sees the horse  once twice or three times a week - if he is rich poor -  whether people think a loss of a race horse differs from a family horse.

 Does the fact he may only see the horse twice a week make him less able to be sad - mournful- grieving ???  More so than someone who sees it more often??


 Jeez so many livery owners may only see their horses at weekends only.

 This thread started to tribute a beautiful horse who tragically  died on the last hurdle.  Why do so many threads have to wander off the original topic.


 RIP Darlan - you died so tragically doing something you love.


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## fizzer (5 February 2013)

Because there is always one person to spoil things.


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## Luci07 (5 February 2013)

fizzer said:



			Because there is always one person to spoil things.
		
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Agreed. Hope the connections don't read this thread. Utter nonsense that only people who take all the care of their horse would really understand and grieve. Horses do not give a toss for who mucks out and feeds, they do react to those who can spend time with them be it riding, grooming whatever.

So RIP Darlan. Sorry that the subject and tribute to your death was hijacked into a racing bashing thread.


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## FinalFurlong (5 February 2013)

I do not really want to get involved in this as im sure many of you just by reading my username will know my views on racing. I also hate debates especially about a sport i care about so much. I also know everyone has the right to their opinion, on both sides of the argument.

However i must say there is good and bad in every sport. Show jumping, there is rapping and sensitivity of the horses legs etc. Dressage, there is rollkur, and then there are the countless amounts of everyday horse abuse given to horses who would never even see the local unafil show ring. A horse can break his leg running around a field (and i know 2 horse owners this has happened to). 

R.I.P To darlan, I really do feel for all connections, trainer,jockey,owner, groom etc. I work in a racing yard myself, we did not even get a winner last season (plenty of places though) and our horses are at the bottom end of the racing scale. We could not get a horse like darlan in our wildest dreams. However, even if a horse of ours who made the racing post for being so bad ever died i can assure you the entire yard, trainer and all would all be in floods of tears. They are not 'machines' to people who are willing to get up at 5am every single morning, which the trainer and stable staff do themselves (not just at my yard)

Owners, now you get some good and some bad, Some would be in floods of tears, some wouldnt. However you do not see all show jumping/dressage/eventing owners crying either when a horse is sold on to the next rider for a bigger price etc. 

However I do think people should pay more attention to horse abuse right under their noses instead of tragedies like this.


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## Echo Bravo (5 February 2013)

What started as a lovely tribute to a talented horse and the 2 that died the same day, was as usual over taken by CPTRAYES and then WAGTAIL, why can we not just ignore them, for the sour small people they are.


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## Goldenstar (5 February 2013)

AnaV said:



			My sympathy does go out to those who cared for the horse and laid awake restless at night over him.
		
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Mine too, my sympathy is always with the lad or lass with the empty bridle whether the horse is a star or a bit of an also ran there's always a lad or lass with a bridle.


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## Amymay (6 February 2013)

Echo Bravo said:



			What started as a lovely tribute to a talented horse and the 2 that died the same day, was as usual over taken by CPTRAYES and then WAGTAIL, why can we not just ignore them, for the sour small people they are.
		
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Why are Wagtail and Cptrayes singled out as being 'small people' for merely expressing very well thought out, and actually very relevant, views on an industry that does kill many 100's of horses a year?

I love racing, but am becoming less and less immune to the waste and loss.  If expressing that view also makes me a 'small person', add me to the list with Wagtail and Cptrayes.

Of course it's a tragedy that this beautiful creature lost his life.  And of course his connections will be very, very upset.  However, in order to be involved in racing you have to accept that every loss on the racecourse is an acceptable loss.  Otherwise you wouldn't be involved.


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## ILuvCowparsely (6 February 2013)

Maybe because this thread was started as a tribute for a talent young  horse who tragically died, and for people to send their condolences and tributes.

 OP I am sure did not intend this thread to digress into this.


 Maybe if the thread was called 

 What do you think of racing is it a waste of horses or not

 or

Please tell me what you think about horses dying in racing


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## KautoStar1 (6 February 2013)

Leviathan said:



			Maybe because this thread was started as a tribute for a talent young  horse who tragically died, and for people to send their condolences and tributes.

 OP I am sure did not intend this thread to digress into this.


 Maybe if the thread was called 

 What do you think of racing is it a waste of horses or not

 or

Please tell me what you think about horses dying in racing

Click to expand...



Exactly.  
Nothing wrong with lively debate but there is a time and a place and also a way of expressing that.  Some people just want to argue with anyone who doesn't have the same view and continue that argument until they are the last voice standing.


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## fburton (6 February 2013)

Leviathan said:



			Maybe if the thread was called 

 What do you think of racing is it a waste of horses or not

 or

Please tell me what you think about horses dying in racing

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or

Should the death of famous racehorses be singled out for condolence while others go unremarked?  

(which I believe was CPT's original point)


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## minesadouble (6 February 2013)

fburton said:



			or

Should the death of famous racehorses be singled out for condolence while others go unremarked?  

(which I believe was CPT's original point)
		
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Is it really so hard to see why?? As I said before Darlan was a high profile horse, a hot Cheltenham contender, I fully expect that the death of David Beckham will attract far more media attention than my own!


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## KautoStar1 (6 February 2013)

Probably because some of the good points are lost in the arguing with everyone  and constantly quoting people and then responding with what comes across in an aggressive my way is the right way manner, when actually the thread was to express sadness at the loss of a talented young hurdler, not to debate the wrongs and rights of NH racing, or any other horse sport for that matter.


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## fburton (6 February 2013)

minesadouble said:



			Is it really so hard to see why?? As I said before Darlan was a high profile horse, a hot Cheltenham contender, I fully expect that the death of David Beckham will attract far more media attention than my own!
		
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Sure, though one would hope that DB's death would not be considered any more tragic than that of any of the couple of thousand or so ordinary folk who happened to die the same day.


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## ILuvCowparsely (6 February 2013)

fburton said:



			or

Should the death of famous racehorses be singled out for condolence while others go unremarked?  

(which I believe was CPT's original point)
		
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 The "point" is OP posted this thread to  make us aware of "This" horses sad death.  It was OP who brought our attention to a "singled" out horse. Nothing about other horse being killed etc.  So I do not see other horses deaths have anything to do with OP threads and they did not say anything about  Other horses deaths mean nothing only this one which is why they posted it.

 Seeing there are hundreds of horses that die on the tracks and most of us have not heard of most of them, its refreshing for a poster to bring this up so even if we have not heard of the said horse we can wish it a RIP which is the purpose of this thread is it not???


 It is not to start a heated discussion about every single horse that dies in training or on the field, just because a horse is not mentioned here does not mean it is not sad or tragic.  Unless they are mentioned here no one would know would they?


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## teapot (6 February 2013)

fburton said:



			Sure, though one would hope that DB's death would not be considered any more tragic than that of any of the couple of thousand or so ordinary folk who happened to die the same day.
		
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It would though because of the media induced celeb culture that we live in. In the same way the loss of Darlan made headline sports news compared to the other horses that died on Monday. 

It's the society and times that we live in sadly.


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## Partridg3 (6 February 2013)

Justajob. Please do not tell me where or when I can post. This thread is in Latest News and were my post against the t's and c's it would be up to the mods to remove, not the self styled ball bashers on here. 
Also, if you MUST comment, try to read all previous remarks before singling out. I already said I love racing in a previous post and I commented on the ONE syndicate I know, which I explained. Hardly tarring anything.
I support racing and I bet regularly and visit courses...therefore I shall damn well comment.


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## Echo Bravo (6 February 2013)

Sorry Amymay I missed you outBut 1 or 3  or 4 people hi jacked  this post for their own opinions, that most people really don't want to hear.
What was meant not as a tribute but the loss of a good young horse and it didn't matter what job he was doing and lets face it most of our horses are doing a job, whether as a companion,hacker,showjumper,eventer,mother and yes you guessed it right a RACEHORSE. Yes many of us watch NH racing/flat racing and guess what enjoy it and no we don't like to see horses lose their lives neither does anyone else.


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## claracanter (6 February 2013)

RIP wonderful Darlan. Condolences to all his connections


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## Echo Bravo (6 February 2013)

Thank you Claracanter you have brought us all back to earth


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## Caledonia (6 February 2013)

I was watching on ATR, I had been looking forward to the contest between Rock on Ruby and Darlan for days. 

Darlan came to win his race, didn't get his legs down in time and fell on his neck and was gone. In a nanosecond he went from lighting up a winter day to leaving everyone reeling in shock and disbelief. The whole racecourse was subdued, the ATR studios were struggling to move on, and even in victory, Rock on Ruby's connections first comments were about Darlan, not the win. 

Darlan knew nothing about it, he'd led a wonderful life and been treated like royalty. 

My heart goes out the yard, especially his lad who so obviously adored him, AP and the owner. 

I despair at those who seem to celebrate the death of a high profile horse as a means to peddle their pettiness. 


RIP beautiful boy. 

ETA, so sorry for your loss, EKW.


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## justabob (6 February 2013)

As can I.
		
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## justabob (6 February 2013)

justabob said:



			You seem to be talking about a syndicate that has little regard for the horses  that they have in training. I am sure there are many such syndicates of non horsey people who are only concerned about winners. I really dont think that you can tarr all owners with the same brush. I certainly also don't for one moment think that your rather depressing slant on racing has anything to do with this thread and the homage that HHOers wanted to pay to the truly talented horse Darlan.
		
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Partridg3 said:



			Justajob. Please do not tell me where or when I can post. This thread is in Latest News and were my post against the t's and c's it would be up to the mods to remove, not the self styled ball bashers on here. 
Also, if you MUST comment, try to read all previous remarks before singling out. I already said I love racing in a previous post and I commented on the ONE syndicate I know, which I explained. Hardly tarring anything.
I support racing and I bet regularly and visit courses...therefore I shall damn well comment.
		
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I am sorry for the confusion with the above comment, I was replying to you Partridg3, I shall damn well comment also.


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## dressedkez (6 February 2013)

Justabob - going off message  - but assuming that your 'name' comes from the fantastic Jane Smiley book ' horse heaven'? 
What a fantastic book that was  - I think that in comparison UK and Irish racing still has more morals - and the death of Darlan can not be atttributed to greed / syndicates or anything else, just bad luck - sadly.


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## Echo Bravo (6 February 2013)

Just let this thread die a natural death now, the horse has gone let it be.


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## justabob (6 February 2013)

dressedkez said:



			Justabob - going off message  - but assuming that your 'name' comes from the fantastic Jane Smiley book ' horse heaven'? 
What a fantastic book that was  - I think that in comparison UK and Irish racing still has more morals - and the death of Darlan can not be atttributed to greed / syndicates or anything else, just bad luck - sadly.
		
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Yes! my user name does indeed come from that wonderful book, a very thought provoking book it is too. I have given it to many people to read, some love it, others dont get it. I agree with you that it was bad luck and my point was that this thread was simply for us to pay homage to Darlan, and not to fall out about racing. We are, as you say, a better country for racehorses than the factory yards in the States.


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## Baggybreeches (6 February 2013)

cptrayes said:



			If you do, fine. But I really can't see JP McManus, Nicholson or the groom  crying over this horse in a year's time, otherwise they'd be constantly in tears over the number of horses which have died or been put down for injury in their time involved with them.
		
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You obviously didn't see John Hales after Neptune won at the Grand National, he did that because he believed in the dream, he knew all about the heartbreak he had been there with One Man at that course previously. JP McManus often retires his horses at his stud in Ireland (King Johns Castle being one of them the non starter at the GN a couple of years ago). I don't really think your argument about owners not caring stacks up, what about people who have horses on full or competition livery, do they care less?
EKW sorry to hear about your charge  the odd bods do leave a funny shaped hole


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## dressedkez (6 February 2013)

justabob said:



			Yes! my user name does indeed come from that wonderful book, a very thought provoking book it is too. I have given it to many people to read, some love it, others dont get it. I agree with you that it was bad luck and my point was that this thread was simply for us to pay homage to Darlan, and not to fall out about racing. We are, as you say, a better country for racehorses than the factory yards in the States.
		
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Delighted I got the connnection right, and I urge any horse racing fan - or horse fan generally to get on to Amazon and get a copy of this book - as Justabob says, some of you will 'get' it and others will not. Agree with Echo Bravo let us collectively let Darlan, AP, JP and Nicki Henderson RIP now and move on.


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## Annie44 (7 February 2013)

Very sad end for a beautiful & talented horse, heartfelt sympathy to all connected with him.

RIP Darlan


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