# Hard Ground, Gel Pads or Equi-pak?



## Topaz Tiger (22 May 2012)

Hi guys

Would like to try to event my mare a bit over the summer, but she feels the hard ground, even have to keep her on the soft for a few days after shoeing, as she can go footy.

My farrier has suggested Equi-Pak, but I think I read somewhere that horses can slip more, with the foot area filled.

I'm not determined to event at all costs, we ran at Lt Downham be100 at the weekend, which was our 3rd run this year, she was fab, even did a 28.5 dressage, a personal best for us, then 4faults sj and 2.8 tp xc.  Sorry, had to put that in, as was thrilled with her! I want to step up to novice, which I would ideally do after Tweseldown, but think I will then get hit by the hard ground and have to wait until mid September.....

I had decided to do Eridge then I'm away for 2 weeks, so next event would be Tweseldown, which I thought was a safe bet as its sandy.

Does anyone have any experiences with gel pads or Equi-Pak and what did you feel the pros and cons are. 
My farrier suggested the Copper Sulfate version as stops the sole and frog getting so smelly. My concern is in trying to alleviate one problem I may then cause another one.....

Any thoughts experiences would be gratefully received.... Thank you!


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## whiteclover (22 May 2012)

I had a horse who has the equipaks on and didnt find the ground slippy at all even in summer.


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## WellyBaggins (22 May 2012)

I have used them, I did not find them too bad slipping wise, I had them in front and evented with studs behind but only at 90/100 level.  I don't think I had special ones for frog health and had no problems with the sole/frog


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## sja (22 May 2012)

I competed my boy at adv / 3* level with equi-pak, just made sure he always had studs on grass. Never had trouble with thrush etc.


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## mrussell (22 May 2012)

From the home of the cr*ppiest hooves in the world, I can offer no advice but wanted to say **whoop whoop** for Sundays results !!  You looked brill.    See you this weekend, fellow-traitor...


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## ihatework (22 May 2012)

When my old, old horse did a year in equipak the only time I had issues with slipping was mid-winter hacking in mud


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## Topaz Tiger (22 May 2012)

Sounds like a pretty positive vote for equi-pak then..!  will get some sorted. 
Mrussell you did pretty well yourselves, Chester looked in fine form!  Feeling very guilty about the weekend.....


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## KatB (22 May 2012)

My mare has equi pak which is great, BUT I'd look into gel pads and Magic cushion, as it's fantastic for preventing bruising, and cheaper!! She's going onto this next, as only had the equi pak for remedial reasons....


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## Topaz Tiger (23 May 2012)

Hi KatB had a look at magic cushion, am I right in thinking its something you put in afterwards to alleviate soreness after a run? Can't find much about gel pads. My farrier has suggested equi-pak. Its expensive, £40 a foot. Have people noticed much difference to soundness/stride length on firmer ground?


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## KatB (23 May 2012)

My farrier uses magic cushion under silicon pads as a protective/preventative measure. Equipak will make the sole softer over time. My mare has been happy with equipak, but my farrier shoes a lot of competition horses and only uses equipak on the horses that have the insurance company paying for it, as the pad/cushion option is the best for concussion protection.


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## TPO (23 May 2012)

Can't offer any advice on gel pads or equi-pak as never used either but should further investigation not be done into the shoeing? 

No horse should be footy after shoeing; let alone have this happen regularly. I'd want to look into that before adding anything else to the mix to try and mask the root problem.


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## Topaz Tiger (23 May 2012)

Thanks for that KatB, someone at my yard said they had seen it make the soles softer over time. Will speak to him about your suggestion.
Hi TPO have questioned my farrier and vet at length about this issue. My vet says her feet are quite upright on the inside and so not a lot to nail into, he is very happy with her shoeing and my farrier feels that when her feet are first cut back she feels the ground a bit. She doesn't even like the heat of the shoe when it's dry hot weather. So I'm pretty happy this is her issue. The only other thing I've considered is if I stop eventing her I will take her shoes off, but I'm not prepared to event without studs.


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## SpottedCat (23 May 2012)

Can you get magic cushion over here now?! Amazing if you can, I want some!

Just found the stockist, this is brilliant news. I have been wanting some since I saw it in action in 2009 in the USA!


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## KatB (23 May 2012)

Spottedcat, yep my farrier LOVES it, and it is the way forward for madam from now on.... works out a LOT cheaper than Equipak too


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## mrussell (23 May 2012)

TPO said:



			No horse should be footy after shoeing; let alone have this happen regularly. I'd want to look into that before adding anything else to the mix to try and mask the root problem.
		
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TPO, I dont think the OP is saying it happens regularly.  Shes said her horse "can" go footy for a couple of days when being shod in the summer.


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## SpottedCat (23 May 2012)

KatB said:



			Spottedcat, yep my farrier LOVES it, and it is the way forward for madam from now on.... works out a LOT cheaper than Equipak too 

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Do you use it under pads, or just after work on hard ground? Does it really need the alcohol to remove it? I don't remember using any in the US!


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## TPO (23 May 2012)

mrussell said:



			TPO, I dont think the OP is saying it happens regularly.  Shes said her horse "can" go footy for a couple of days when being shod in the summer.
		
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Going on the assumption that horses are shod every 6-8wks I'd say that's pretty regular and not a one off occurence. The fact that OP has spoken to vet/farrier about this would indicate that it has been an issue of some concern to her; enough to warrent the discussion with two seperate people and now a post on a forum asking for thoughts and experiences.

Since OP has already replied in response to my post I'm not sure what the point of your post is? Please don't start again <awaiting a reply where you start using my first name and all the usual tactics - UI>

TT - does your horse plate/dish at all; even slightly? If the medial aspect of the hooves are upright it would indicate that this is the part of the foot that she is landing and therefore all the force and concussion is travelling up that side of the limb. Perhaps the farrier can offer some advice re spreading the load so that foot is landing balanced. IIRC medial extensions (if wall if very upright more than likely won't need and extension; just a normal shoe not shaped to the hoof so that a rim is left, if that makes any sense?!) is generally the chosen route but they are rather easy to pull off...

If there really is nothing to nail on I've heard of people having success with the equicast-esque stuff to give the farrier a surface to nail onto.

I'm sorry that my reply isn't in line with all the others but I still don't feel that what you are describing is "ok" and/or "just her" and/or something that could/would be cured by using a gel pad. It's the wall that is trimmed/nailed onto therefore the gel pads/equipak (covering/in sole) won't affect her footiness from feeling the ground after being cut back.


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## mrussell (23 May 2012)

TPO said:



			Since OP has already replied in response to my post I'm not sure what the point of your post is? Please don't start again <awaiting a reply where you start using my first name and all the usual tactics - UI>
		
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I was replying at the same time as the OP so hadnt seen her reply. I was purely pointing out that you had (as ever) made a sweeping assumption in your reply.  Simples.


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## KatB (23 May 2012)

Hm, yep using it under pads. Today is the first time madam will have been shod with it, so not sure re.alcohol as shes had equipak upto now. However have spoken to farrier in great detail about it as he uses it a lot,but not about removal methods!


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## Topaz Tiger (23 May 2012)

Ok ok guys..... She has gone footy TWICE after being shod and then worked/competed on firm ground. I now manage it, but avoid shoeing her at least 7-10 days before an event JUST in case....
She is shod every 5 weeks, my farrier already extends the shoe slightly beyond the inside edge of the foot and then grinds the top edge away slightly, so there is less chance of her treading on it and pulling it off.  My post was ACTUALLY about using something to reduce general concussion if I wanted to run her on firmer ground, a separate issue to her occasional footiness after shoeing, but I accept quite possibly a related one. As far as dishing, no her action is straight. 
I am not just accepting her situation, but trying to manage a less than perfect sports horse, in at times, less than perfect situations.


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## Alfami (23 May 2012)

See!  I'm already commenting on someone else's post!  

For what it's worth, mine really feels the hard ground and when he used to do a whole seasons eventing, was almost always in equi-pak by the end of the year.  I think it helped a little (& I never had any frog/sole related issues, never slipped with studs in), but I never quite got my head around how it helps with general concussion - the outside wall of the hoof is still in direct contact with the shoe & therefore the ground - this is the loadbearing bit is it not?  I was never completely convinced of the advantages of equi-pak, I think I just used it to alleviate my conscience, knowing that my poor neddy didn't appreciate the ground.  Now, I just wouldn't run him on the hard - a lost entry fee is probably a similar ££ to the pads......  However, let us know what you choose to do and how good it is!  FWIW, mine can quite often be footy after shoeing too, it's usually because the farrier is trying to keep his toes short enough as their natural tendency is to 'run away' from the correct angle.  Avoiding a new set for a week before a competition sounds very sensible to me.


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## TPO (23 May 2012)

Topaz Tiger said:



			My post was ACTUALLY about using something to reduce general concussion if I wanted to run her on firmer ground, a separate issue to her occasional footiness after shoeing, but I accept quite possibly a related one.
		
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This is what I was trying to get it, although from the reply clearly not successfully, that by identifying and managing the root of the problem may make the need for pads/gel redundant. As you've said that it's only happened twice (consecutively?) then *something* has to have changed if it didn't happen before and/or consecutively. Fixing that may fix the seperate issue. 

Re reducing concussion; if you think about it outwith the "horse world" it's a pretty impossible task given that shoes are metal and a concussive material. To badly paraphrase the farrier Martin Deacon "shoes increase concussion while reducing the horse's own ability to absorb concussion". Maybe something like the easywalker shoes could be an option? Reduced concussion and can be nailed on unlike most other synthetic shoes. http://www.easywalkerhorseshoes.com/

No idea how to multi-quote but it's nail on head re all we try to do is manage our horses as well as we can with what we have available to us. 

Good luck finding a solution.


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## TPO (23 May 2012)

Alfami said:



			I never quite got my head around how it helps with general concussion - the outside wall of the hoof is still in direct contact with the shoe & therefore the ground - this is the loadbearing bit is it not?
		
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^^^ 
This, am just away to google to try and figure out the physics of it as thought I was clearly missing something/the point of gel packs.

Is anyone who uses/has used it able to explain? Thanks


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## KatB (23 May 2012)

All pads do is increase the weightbearing area to the sole, so in theory assisting weight distribution..


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## mrussell (23 May 2012)

TT, I use Equicasts on Chesters back feet during the eventing season as it means he has an increased weight bearing surface and it reduces the amount of hoof wall the farrier has to reply on for his nail placement.  It also protects his sole from any limestone takeoffs or rutted ground.  We tried gel pads but they didnt really have any appreciable effect. I think BB's on here used leather pads with quite a bit of success on her eventer Winston who suffered from the same "occassional" problem at Topaz.


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## Topaz Tiger (23 May 2012)

TPO as I have said before I am NOT trying to cure her possible footiness after shoeing (happening on 2 completely separate occasions and probably only because I happening to canter/compete her on firmer ground, shortly after being shod). 
As alfami said, it prob due to my farrier keeping her toes short and giving plenty of support at the heels, something that im sure you'll agree is important for the tendons and ligaments of any hard working horse.
My post was ONLY about trying to protect her limbs from the general concussive effects of working on hard ground, something not ideal for any horse. 
My understanding is these pads reduce the pressure/concussion on the outside wall of the foot, by spreading it over the whole of the foot, exactly as KatB said (incidentally would be fascinated to hear how the new stuff compares to the Equi-Pak), rather like the loading on a barefoot horse I would imagine.
I have looked at the Imprint shoes and now the Easywalker you recommended, but my understanding of these shoes, from what my farrier says, is they can actually increase the concussion, as naturally the foot must always have an amount of slide as it comes into contact with the ground and that these grippy plastic shoes don't allow that, therefore increasing the shock to limb.


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## ester (23 May 2012)

I suppose if you are in effect bringing the sole 'down' you make it more likely to contact with the ground and increasing the bearing surface. 

SC/katB this magic cushion stuff.. any idea on ingredients or how it is supposed to work? I am guessing by their use of a thermograph that they are trying to show a cooling effect on the foot? or less pressure put on it maybe due to gel effect? I am struggling to get my head round how a hoof packing can have an analgesic/anti inflamm effect as claimed when it has to get through the sole of a hoof


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## SpottedCat (23 May 2012)

I had a good look at the ingredients in the USA but off the top of my head cannot remember. I actually have no idea how it works, but saw several pottery horses have it packed in and come out the next day sound - horses that the night before you would have said would be spun at the trot up. 

I also know the reason why it says doesn't contain capsicum is because it used to! I have a feeling Venetian turpentine is in there somewhere though what that does I have no idea! 

I'll let you know when mine arrives


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## ester (23 May 2012)

thank you


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## Topaz Tiger (23 May 2012)

Thanks for the info mrussell, will pick your brains re equicast on Sunday!


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## KatB (23 May 2012)

Ive got photos of the magic cushion and pad arrangement, and will post them tomorrow. My mare is being treated for a specific problem, and the aim for her is for the foot to be stimulated to encourage growth but cushioned to prevent soreness in the meantime. The magic cushion looks like carpet fibre in oil at the moment, but apparently the moisture comes out of it and it offers excellent protection. We will see!


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## TPO (23 May 2012)

Topaz Tiger said:



			naturally the foot must always have an amount of slide as it comes into contact with the ground and that these grippy plastic shoes don't allow that, therefore increasing the shock to limb.
		
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Completely agree re the limb needing the "slide" for want of a better word but then I don't see how requiring shoes for studs/not wanting to event without the option of studs fits in? Pretty sure it was CPTrayes who posted the paper about what using studs does to the limb; much more jarring and damaging than a plastic shoe. This is totally disregarding your original post re being footy since you've stated this isn't the case or an issue BTW. 

If you're looking to use the equi-pak to "make it like barefoot" and to reduce concussion you wouldn't use studs so why not just pull the shoes? Completely reducing concussion and enabling the limb to function normally. If the foot is healthy horse will be sound as soon as shoes come off. On BE forum there are a couple of users are eventing at 2* without shoes. It's not for everyone but it's another possible option.


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## mrussell (24 May 2012)

TPO said:



			to reduce concussion you wouldn't use studs so why not just pull the shoes? Completely reducing concussion and enabling the limb to function normally.
		
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Concussion by definition is "striking together" so any contact with the ground involves concussion and removing a shoe will not completely reduce it.  As someone involved in eventing I understand the need to use pads as we are seeking to protect the horse from the effects of concussion not eliminate it all together as this, clearly, is impossible for a flightless animal.


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## Topaz Tiger (24 May 2012)

TPO.  Firstly there are a lot of very knowledgable people on here who wouldn't event without studs and I'm inclined to agree with them, partic if you want to be competitive AND safe

Secondly I think 10 minutes with studs twice a month is probably less damaging then every step the horse takes with synthetic shoes

Lastly I haven't gone off topic, you never seemed to understand the original topic in the first place.

I think all any of us can do is lessen the effects as much as we can of the highly unnatural life we expect our horses to live, which was the nature of my original post.


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## Horsemad12 (24 May 2012)

I would be interested to hear what you try and if it works.

Spotted Cat - Can you use the magic cushion yourself after shoeing?  I have had a look at it (Same Farrier as Katb) but did not realise that it could be used as and when required or have I got the wrong end of the stick?

The farrier that Katb and I use has used magic cushion on a number of event horses, esp. last year with the hard ground and as katb states, he really rates it.


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## SpottedCat (24 May 2012)

Horsemad12 said:



			I would be interested to hear what you try and if it works.

Spotted Cat - Can you use the magic cushion yourself after shoeing?  I have had a look at it (Same Farrier as Katb) but did not realise that it could be used as and when required or have I got the wrong end of the stick?

The farrier that Katb and I use has used magic cushion on a number of event horses, esp. last year with the hard ground and as katb states, he really rates it.
		
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Yes you can - in the bit of the USA I was in they use it pretty routinely and often give out the little trial packs in the goodie buckets they pull together for 3 days. Basically (and my memory is a little foggy as it was back in the start of 2009 when I was there), you pack it in the foot, wrap the foot (they used a bit of feed sack and duct tape or vetwrap), then the next morning unwrap the foot and you're good to go. I don't remember anyone making any special effort to remove it, and I only saw it used on horses that were footy coz of hard (frozen) ground as I was there in the winter. But they told me they often used it overnight after the XC, unwrap the foot in the morning and horses that had come back jarred up passed the trot up perfectly.

They seemed to use it a bit preventatively - so they'd pack the night before XC and then again after XC.

It could be just what my chap needs at the moment, so I've ordered a small tub and am going to test it out next week.

ETA: I've also got in touch with the person I was training with out there to clarify exactly how they use it as I'm a bit rusty! I would guess COTH forum would probably be able to supply similar answers though....

Re the 'slide' of the foot - a lot of this can be helped by where the studs are in the shoe - my farrier thinks the further forward the better on the front feet because when landing, the heel contacts the floor momentarily before the toe, so my horse currently has stud holes just next to the nail holes in the shoe to allow a small amount of slip.


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## Topaz Tiger (24 May 2012)

Thanks SC really interesting re studs, will look at that.


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## Topaz Tiger (28 May 2012)

Hi just a quick update for everyone. 
Topaz had some hoof wall cut out and filled last week, as she had a large unstable horizontal crack on the outside quarter, prob from a knock to the coronary band. On friday the filler came out and she went a bit footy, there was a good inch of hoof not touching the shoe, so with Eridge on Friday, some work already missed and no guarentee the next lot of filler staying in, I decided to bite the bullet and have her reshod with Equi-Pak in both front feet.
This is a bit of a high risk statedgy as I wouldn't normally shoe her within a week of an event, but it felt like the best option under the circumstances.
I decided to go for the Equi-Pak in the end because it seemed the most popular choice at this stage and it was also recommended by my farrier.
So will shall see..... 
The aim, if it is a success, is to keep her in it until the ground softens in September, hopefully her soles won't soften too much in the process.


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## CrazyOldMare (30 June 2012)

I have heard that the Magic Cushion is great and worth keeping some in equine store cupboard!  Please could someone tell me where in the UK you can buy it? Thanks


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