# Horse kicking when being rugged



## Penny Less (21 September 2018)

Loan horse has had a back/pelvis problem which resulted in him being retired. he is a nice lad except for rugging. He kicks out when Im putting it on, usually same leg. I try to avoid pulling on the rug when adjusting it, but as Im not too tall and hes a big lad I can never get it on straight first time. Bit dreading the winter routine when Ill be changing rugs 4 times a day. Today he kicked out when I was undoing surcingle.  Ive tried the BHS folding rugs way but with a big 7ft rug im finding it quite difficult.  Now do I tell him off and give him a slap, or try rewarding him if he doesn't kick. If I cant sort this I will have to let him go back to his owner but am reluctant to do this with winter coming on as they will have to find a yard.


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## SEL (21 September 2018)

My mare can get like this when her ulcers play up. I do tell her off because I think she should know by now that rugs on / off are not going to cause her any discomfort. A very firm AH, AH, AH at her when she gets a bit fidgety and a lot of 'good girl' when she stands still for me to do it.


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## cauda equina (21 September 2018)

Could he manage without rugs?


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## Penny Less (21 September 2018)

No! unfortunately


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## Clodagh (21 September 2018)

I would tell him off. Even if it hurts kicking is unacceptable.


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## WandaMare (21 September 2018)

As it could be quite dangerous I would lean towards telling him off rather than only rewarding him when he doesn't do it. Putting a rug on can't cause too much discomfort to a big horse so I would be quite strict with him. I would say NO quite assertively and make him step away from me with his hinds each time he tries it. Hopefully he will get sick of moving over at some point and give up. You can't have him doing that all through the winter, he might catch you one time.


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## splashgirl45 (21 September 2018)

couldnt he stay in his turn out rug and you then only should need to do it once daily.  instead of removing rug to groom, you could unfold the front, groom and then put rug back and unfold back part, groom and fold back...that should be easier if you are small and he is big.  i would also tell him off. kicking is not acceptable and doing the above should not cause him pain.   good luck and be careful..


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## Tiddlypom (21 September 2018)

What's the arrangements re vets etc for this chap? If you mention to his owners that the kicking out worries you (it would worry me!) would they pay for a vet check/chiro/physio to see if he's in pain? It may just be a habit carried on from his earlier injuries, but you could get badly hurt. Think about what happened to Catembi. If he is in pain, then that needs dealing with.


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## SpringArising (21 September 2018)

I'd spend the day taking everything at the pace of a tortoise using positive reinforcement. 

It might take an hour or it might take five mins for him to catch on, but by hitting him/telling him off for it, you're not only going to have a horse who doesn't like being rugged, he's also not going to like/trust you.


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## SpringArising (21 September 2018)

Clodagh said:



			I would tell him off. Even if it hurts kicking is unacceptable.
		
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What method should he use to communicate if the only thing he knows is going to get him a telling off?


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## Clodagh (21 September 2018)

SpringArising said:



			What method should he use to communicate if the only thing he knows is going to get him a telling off?
		
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You don't need to beat him, but an 'Ah' and a growl would be a start. I doubt a carrot is the way to go. Just MO, we all do things differently and neither way will cause him pain or stress.


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## SpringArising (21 September 2018)

Clodagh said:



			You don't need to beat him, but an 'Ah' and a growl would be a start. I doubt a carrot is the way to go. Just MO, we all do things differently and neither way will cause him pain or stress.
		
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So assuming the horse is either in pain, or scared, because let's face it - horses don't act like this for no reason, your method of fixing it would still be to tell him off?


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## cobgoblin (21 September 2018)

If he has a back and pelvis problem... He could have an area of hypersensitivity that the rug is irritating.


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## Pearlsasinger (21 September 2018)

FWIW I find the BHS method the easiest way to put a big horse's rug on (and I've had a lot of big horses).  If you get it folded properly away from the horse, you can put one 1/4 on the withers and unfold it carefully, so that the horse has no/little need to object.  I would also put this horse's rug on from the 'wrong' side.  I can't think of any reason for 4 rug changes in a day.


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## Clodagh (21 September 2018)

Pearlsasinger said:



			FWIW I find the BHS method the easiest way to put a big horse's rug on (and I've had a lot of big horses).  If you get it folded properly away from the horse, you can put one 1/4 on the withers and unfold it carefully, so that the horse has no/little need to object.  I would also put this horse's rug on from the 'wrong' side.  I can't think of any reason for 4 rug changes in a day.
		
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No, I assumed that 4 rug changes a day was an exaggeration! Mine lived in their turnouts (clipped hunters) and I 'woggled' them as necessary.

SA - yes, because horses should not kick, he can put his ears back, or even lift a leg, but booting humans is a no no. (IMO).


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## Mule (21 September 2018)

Any chance he's too hot? I knew a mare that used to run away when her owner tried to rug her. He finally got the message when she threatened to kick..  mabey try the horse unrugged for a bit. If it's cold it will shiver, if not he's fine without it. I think it's worth a try.


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## Penny Less (22 September 2018)

Stable rug off, turnout on, turnout off, stable rug on ! 4 changes by my reckoning.


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## Clodagh (22 September 2018)

Penny Less said:



			Stable rug off, turnout on, turnout off, stable rug on ! 4 changes by my reckoning.
		
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Ah! Fair enough, I count that as two. 
I hope you can sort it.


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## Penny Less (22 September 2018)

Well I suppose I count it as 4 chances of getting kicked


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## Fools Motto (22 September 2018)

If he kicks when you bend down to grab the belly straps, I've seen somewhere using a wire coat hanger helps (or something similar). You can hook the strap without bending down too much.
PS. Wear a hat please.

I did have a dream about this oddly, but the horse in question morphed into an octopus... 
Sorry for adding a weird take on it.... lol


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## SEL (23 September 2018)

I have to confess that when my mare is being particularly stressy her outdoor stays on overnight. No need for a stable rug if there's a risk of getting belted!

If you don't want to reach under the belly then clip a lead rope to the belly straps and either kick it under the horse or, if very bad, use a broom handle to pull it towards you. Just gives you that extra length so you're not bending down in the kick zone. Pull up gently and then unclip rope.


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## hopscotch bandit (24 September 2018)

Mine sometimes starts scraping a near fore on the floor when rugging up to go out but I put this down to excitement and anticipation of going out into the field for the foot of grass I give her every night! It doesn't happen all the time, but that's one thing I can't bear is foot scraping so I go 'No' and either knee her leg or give it a slap and it seems to stop. WHen I say slap I don't mean a real hard one btw.

Like someone said before, if horses are over rugged then and threaten to kick it could well be because they are just plainly saying 'I don't want all this on, please listen to me'.


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## Penny Less (30 September 2018)

Well hes on his way back to the owners, nearly kicked me in the face today when I was picking out his feet.


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## Mucking out - still (1 October 2018)

Agree with Pearlsasinger about putting rugs on from the 'wrong' side (offside). I've seen a number of horses get 'angry' over rugging and am convinced that some of it is due to the belly straps banging the stomach as the rug passes over from the near side.  Did holiday cover for a friend whose horse would kick out or bite when rugs done and after the first couple of days became a dream after rugging from the off side.  IMO rugging from the near side is barbaric if the metal then bangs a horses leg or stomach - haven't done it for years and wince when I see others doing it the 'right' way .  Of course, it may be nothing to do with this at all, but definitely worth trying.  Good luck avoiding the kicks and hope you get it sorted.


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## only_me (1 October 2018)

Could he not just stay in the turnout? Why the change to stable rug?

Iâ€™d be using a lot of vocal noises and putting rug on PC/BHS way ie. folding over shoulders.


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## Clodagh (2 October 2018)

Penny Less said:



			Well hes on his way back to the owners, nearly kicked me in the face today when I was picking out his feet.
		
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That is sad but the right thing I think. Fair enough dealing with that behaviour in your own horse but in a loan companion really not necessary.


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## Auslander (2 October 2018)

Crikey Mucking Out-still - what metal are the fasteners on your rugs made of? I could understand the term "barbaric" if you used horseshoes to secure your rugs, but I don't think my horses have even noticed if the minute lightweight rug fastenings flick them as the rug goes on!


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## Mucking out - still (2 October 2018)

Hee Hee, Auslander.....'barbaric' is probably over-doing it a bit  and no, my rugs don't tend to have heavyweight metal fasteners.  Still a real bug-bear of mine though


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## tallyho! (2 October 2018)

Why canâ€™t he cope without rugs? 

We had a show horse here that could not cope without rugs according to owner and an accident happened. Since then you could not get a rug anywhere near it try as you might. After sedation wore off it was dangerous to get one off... shame vet didnâ€™t have a dart gun. 

Lived out happily ever after, grew a coat so thick you could hide a donkey in it. That was that until she died 15 years later at 39.


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## HeroMaggie (3 October 2018)

Fools Motto said:



			If he kicks when you bend down to grab the belly straps, I've seen somewhere using a wire coat hanger helps (or something similar). You can hook the strap without bending down too much.
PS. Wear a hat please.

I did have a dream about this oddly, but the horse in question morphed into an octopus...
Sorry for adding a weird take on it.... lol
		
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Just choked on my tea reading this  An octopus!!!


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## Penny Less (3 October 2018)

His owner came up yesterday and poked and prodded him and he never lifted a leg !  I know he does have a problem with that leg, old injury.Maybe he just doesn't like me 
Re the rug thing, I have been putting on from the wrong side as suggested, been wary about the leg straps though. Thinking of changing to a fillet string for the time he is still here, do they do a good job of stopping the rugs from slipping ?


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## tallyho! (3 October 2018)

I've always used fillet string. A good rug shouldn't slip, none of mine do anyway.


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## Penny Less (14 October 2018)

Have just tried the bent clothes hanger, worked a treat, thanks whoever it was suggested it.


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## Clodagh (14 October 2018)

Penny Less said:



			His owner came up yesterday and poked and prodded him and he never lifted a leg !  I know he does have a problem with that leg, old injury.Maybe he just doesn't like me
Re the rug thing, I have been putting on from the wrong side as suggested, been wary about the leg straps though. Thinking of changing to a fillet string for the time he is still here, do they do a good job of stopping the rugs from slipping ?
		
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Fillet strings work well on well fitting rugs, I don't use leg straps now at all.


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