# Standards Slipping



## MILLGREENLADY (25 January 2015)

I haven't been to an unaffiliated competiton for a while but took the eventer and the youngster out to an unaffiliated dressage comp today. Spend ages after hunting the other horse scrubbing them one grey and making their tack sparkly. Plaited them both up this morning and scrubbed the grey again! To go and no one else was plaited ive noticed it a lot and at BD shows. Maybe I have high standards but even I notice out hunting yesterday people in puffa coats riding and scarfs and thinking it was acceptable. I just see people wearing hunting coats and not plaited up rude! maybe I should relax and go with the ways does anyone else feel the same way ?


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## nikicb (25 January 2015)

Not sure about others, but I have a grey and he is always totally clean and plaited.  I think it is sad when people don't make an effort.  I know it feels wrong not to plait etc.  How did you get on?


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## Colouredwelsh (25 January 2015)

I'm anal when it comes to turnout and my ponies just do not go out unless they are immaculate. I have a near nervous breakdown over them not being spotless at shows. I always wash in warm water even in summer, how anyone expects to get anything clean in cold water beats me!!!


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## twobearsarthur (25 January 2015)

I feel exactly the same. I'm old fashioned was taught the traditional ways of doing things (hunting family) and I'm not about to give it up to fit in. 
I think it's easier to do things correctly these days as you can look up on line how you should be dressed/turned out etc... I had to rely on dusty old books handed down from older relatives. 
I just think it's respectful to the judge or the Master to be turned out smartly and correctly.


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## MILLGREENLADY (25 January 2015)

THANK GOODNESS some other people that cant go out without being immaculate  I always at least want to look very well turnout even if the horses don't go that well haa. They did ok the greys first dressage comp so a 61 and 62% in prelims so not to bad but the judge was very kind and the eventer came 1st with 68% in the novice which consider hes been hunting the past month wasn't to bad.. 

Nothing like a clean plaited grey


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## Dizzydancer (25 January 2015)

This is something I often feel awkward about, I always make sure I am looking clean and respectable with the correct attire on, horse is always clean and tack is clean but I have had to stop plaiting at present- ex racer who has obviously only been plaited for racing/hunting and therefore becomes a loon so at present he is competing in plaited but will neatly pulled mane and we are plaitin up for home schooling to try and settle him down a bit! It's prob going be a while before I bravw plaits away from home again for dressage!!


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## MILLGREENLADY (25 January 2015)

Dizzydancer said:



			This is something I often feel awkward about, I always make sure I am looking clean and respectable with the correct attire on, horse is always clean and tack is clean but I have had to stop plaiting at present- ex racer who has obviously only been plaited for racing/hunting and therefore becomes a loon so at present he is competing in plaited but will neatly pulled mane and we are plaitin up for home schooling to try and settle him down a bit! It's prob going be a while before I bravw plaits away from home again for dressage!!
		
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That is a good reason though I'm sure of the rest of the 60 enteries of where i was today not many were ex race horses. Good for you for working on it as well


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## hcm88 (25 January 2015)

I think its rude not to make an effort, when judges/hunt/volunteers give you their (often unpaid or poorly paid) time to make sure you have a good day, or give you good feedback, or help you etc etc then its surely courteous to come smartly dressed and have made the effort. 

Through a PC background aren't many of us drilled into having the correct turnout through our child and teen years... for me this has stuck through well into adulthood now! When I saw Sandra Auffarth/etc at WEG without a hairnet just in a ponytail I wasn't impressed, but I feel the majority of people now wouldn't flinch at it!

I pride myself in my horses and I looking as immaculate as possible for a show, it makes me sad that others don't care!


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## twobearsarthur (25 January 2015)

hcm88 said:



			I think its rude not to make an effort, when judges/hunt/volunteers give you their (often unpaid or poorly paid) time to make sure you have a good day, or give you good feedback, or help you etc etc then its surely courteous to come smartly dressed and have made the effort. 

Through a PC background aren't many of us drilled into having the correct turnout through our child and teen years... for me this has stuck through well into adulthood now! When I saw Sandra Auffarth/etc at WEG without a hairnet just in a ponytail I wasn't impressed, but I feel the majority of people now wouldn't flinch at it!

I pride myself in my horses and I looking as immaculate as possible for a show, it makes me sad that others don't care!
		
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Lack of a hairnet makes me twitch too


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## ATrueClassAct (25 January 2015)

Haven't shown in 5 years now (not that long but feels it!) and I completely agree with you with sloppy appearances...it's not nice! 
Correct and clean turnout makes such a difference I think compared to a horse and rider who looked like they've just been dragged out a field. My mare was always shaved, bathed and plaited before a comp even at age 23! 
Not sure if I'm gonna plait my new boy if I compete him only cus he has three manes as it's so thick and am struggling stopping it looking like golf balls. But it  will be kept trimmed and well brushed along Witt his tail

And hair down!! Arghhhh! Just put it in a hairnet not all over your face?!


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## Nicnac (25 January 2015)

Funnily enough I was thinking the same today about turn-out after my grey, who somehow knew the electricity had been turned off, decided that being caught to go to unaffiliated dressage wasn't what he wanted so he slipped under the fencing into one of the Spring fields and hooned up and down covering himself in wet mud whilst the beautifully mannered ex-racehorse was turning himself inside out in his stable having been caught easily 

When I finally managed to grab said grey and took his rug off I was sorely tempted to bung him on the lorry as he was because we were now running rather later than planned.  I just couldn't do it. So he got washed and plaited and I even got a couple of compliments on how clean he looked. 

Amongst the 100 odd competitors today every single horse was turned out smartly and everyone was dressed properly.  I don't have a pony club background but used to have an instructor who was very old school and if your horse had a speck of dried mud or the tiniest bit of shavings in its tail when she arrived you were sent back to sort it before she'd teach you!


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## JDH01 (25 January 2015)

It's not about pony club or BHS it is good manners!  I wear a hairnet even to hack out plus Patey (don't shoot me) every time I hack or hunt and up to spec hat when involved with affiliated comps or riding club.  My two are Always clean and well turned out


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## nikicb (25 January 2015)

Nicnac said:



			Funnily enough I was thinking the same today about turn-out after my grey, who somehow knew the electricity had been turned off, decided that being caught to go to unaffiliated dressage wasn't what he wanted so he slipped under the fencing into one of the Spring fields and hooned up and down covering himself in wet mud whilst the beautifully mannered ex-racehorse was turning himself inside out in his stable having been caught easily 

When I finally managed to grab said grey and took his rug off I was sorely tempted to bung him on the lorry as he was because we were now running rather later than planned.  I just couldn't do it. So he got washed and plaited and I even got a couple of compliments on how clean he looked. 

Amongst the 100 odd competitors today every single horse was turned out smartly and everyone was dressed properly.  I don't have a pony club background but used to have an instructor who was very old school and if your horse had a speck of dried mud or the tiniest bit of shavings in its tail when she arrived you were sent back to sort it before she'd teach you!
		
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This is exactly how I would do it as well.  I also don't have a PC background, despite now being a PC mother.  And I always ride in a hairnet.  Yeah, ok, it's old fashioned, but it keeps my hair where it should be and I should think a little cleaner than just using a hat.


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## Colouredwelsh (25 January 2015)

I always ride in a hairnet at home too. I feel like I'm not quite dressed without. I Just feel scruffy.


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## nikicb (25 January 2015)

Colouredwelsh said:



			I always ride in a hairnet at home too. I feel like I'm not quite dressed without. I Just feel scruffy.
		
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Not just me then.  Oh, and gloves.  Feel odd without them.    x


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## WelshD (25 January 2015)

I'm old fashioned too. Whilst observing the back of a show line up today I noted a few scruffy pony tails - some equine some human!

 There was a possibility that I would need to act as groom in a ring so I automatically put a hat, hairbands and gloves in the car just in case - I agree with the previous comment about respect though I am sure plenty will disagree


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## NZJenny (26 January 2015)

Me too.  It isn't so much a respect thing for me, but a pride thing.  Even endurance riding, I did pulled manes and tidy tails.  Horses were always bathed prior and tack was always clean.  Just because you were tough, didn't mean you had to be rough!

Have been let off plaiting for dressage for years, as my previous horse was hogged.  However now looking at youngster and thinking time to start practicing again.


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## Moomin1 (26 January 2015)

Yes, does my brains in when I go showing and some of the sights who turn up actually get placed.  Though I have to say, I couldn't give a monkey's backside whether someone turns up unplaited to a hunt - who is judging exactly? Surely a hunt is not about appearance?  Though I don't hunt, so am probably well off the mark.  But I cannot see how not being plaited etc at a hunt should really be an issue.


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## Colouredwelsh (26 January 2015)

I think it's down right rude not to plait to hunt, wewould never have been allowed to hunt unplaited. Only when cubbing did we not plait. 

nikicb yes, gloves too lol.


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## MileAMinute (26 January 2015)

I agree, it's rude not to make the effort. Hunting is very traditional and it's important to follow what is expected of you. Good turnout is one of those things. Just like I wouldn't have my horse unplaited for dressage, or turn up with a filthy grey to a competition. I struggle to plait so need help but I would rather have someone to it than go without. Plus, my horse's mane is a crazy, thick mess so it's nice to see it contained on occasion


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## Britestar (26 January 2015)

I always make sure mine are clean and well presented, however, my younger horse hates his manes being fiddled with, and plaiting him is a 2 man fight, with me getting crushed. So for him, there is no plaiting. His mane is short, and lies well.


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## RunToEarth (26 January 2015)

I completely agree OP - out hunting a few weeks ago at a lawn meet, loads of people in wax jackets because it was raining - Exmoor and Ireland excluded - since when did it become acceptable to sit at a flipping lawn meet with a barbour on - really really rude IMO. There is no way I'd go out unplaited, if nothing else it just looks smarter.


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## Equi (26 January 2015)

Im not a shower i only show in hand, but even if i am doing something public and not show related i make sure the ponies are sparkly and manes n tails slicked and hooves polished. I have my gear on and hate when someone who has just literally rocked up no grooming and wearing a pair of jeans and trainers get placed over my pony who has been champ before (i usually find that 99% of the time a coloured is placed above me, no matter the turn out or conformation - and it appears to be two judges in particular who do this)


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## LittleRooketRider (26 January 2015)

Another helplessly obssessed with turnout..because its correct,polite and respectful..not to mention mortifying if I am not turned out immaculately.

That said..have been hunting a pony for somebody, the arrangement is I turn up at the meet and get on...but they never plait!!?? Ok its a rather rotund sort with mane all over the place..but even at a lawn meet!?


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## HaffiesRock (26 January 2015)

I am in agreement also. I show, and I turn my ponies out to the best standard that I can with my facilities. At a local show last year, there were so many people in hand showing in jeans, trainers, scruffy jodhs and just generally looking terrible!


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## ironhorse (26 January 2015)

Didn't plait mine when he went to unaff dressage last time because it was his first outing since ulcer treatment and I wanted to keep it low key for him, although his mane is very neat anyway. However, he was immaculate otherwise - clipped, tack clean and shiny, tail well brushed out. It just makes me feel better - like we deserve to be there!
Will be plaited too next time


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## PolarSkye (26 January 2015)

Moomin1 said:



			Yes, does my brains in when I go showing and some of the sights who turn up actually get placed.  Though I have to say, I couldn't give a monkey's backside whether someone turns up unplaited to a hunt - who is judging exactly? Surely a hunt is not about appearance?  Though I don't hunt, so am probably well off the mark.  But I cannot see how not being plaited etc at a hunt should really be an issue.
		
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Just as with dressage, plaiting for hunting is really about showing respect and making an effort to look smart.  A lot of work goes into maintaining a hunt, most of it done by volunteers - showing up clean, on a clean and plaited horse is the least those going out for the day can do . . . 

P


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## PolarSkye (26 January 2015)

Kali (who is grey) is clean and presentable not only for competitions and when out hunting (well, not any more - his hunting days are behind him) but also for lessons and clinics.  I just think it shows we're committed/willing to make an effort.  Of course he's not plaited for lessons and clinics - nor is he for SJing - but he is clean and so is his tack - and his jockey looks smart.

P


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## wench (26 January 2015)

I avoid plaiting at all costs, unless I really have to. 

I hate doing it, am rubbish at it, and they all fall out, so my horse ends up looking even worse than before.

Yes I could practise, but I am exceptionally busy, and would rather be riding my horse than practising plaiting!


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## ossy (26 January 2015)

I'll be honest some of the first unaffiliated dressages I did I didn't plait I was doing one test first thing in morning and wanted it to be low key but we were clean and tidy. Now we're doing BD and BE I wouldnt dream of going out unplaited, whites not white ect.  Having gone to a few BS shows recently I was amazed at the lack of turnout,  dirty horses, tack, riders boots ect and loose hair flopping everywhere &#55357;&#56883;


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## sarahann1 (26 January 2015)

Another stickler for turnout here, can't stand scruffiness! Even grooming at local shows I make sure I'm well turned out with hat, smart trousers, shirt etc. Lack of turnout screams bad manners to me.


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## rara007 (26 January 2015)

I went to BD on Saturday on an unregistered pony unplaitted! He lives out, unrugged, currently with a full mane as I don't feel it's justified to clip/rug/pull him for a show every 6 weeks and 4 rides a week. I was busy at a ceremony until 9pm, one hour from home, the night before, and had to leave at 6.30am.... We got the best score we've ever got and got the qualifying scores we needed easily  I wouldn't have booked to go showing in those circumstances, but I can't wait all year for conditions to be perfect!


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## Colouredwelsh (26 January 2015)

I can't believe how many posts in reading that think it's ok to be only averagely turned out.


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## rara007 (26 January 2015)

But by default 1/2 the people will be below average and half above- it's how it works  My pony living out unrugged is never going to look like a warmblood with a nice thin mane plaitted, clipped out all over. But he also isn't going to be covered in ghastly bling on every part, or subjected to cleaning rituals that cause stress, for the sake of a ribbon or a few pounds.... I expect the older school judges prefer to see a clean smart pony turned out with tweed in a prelim over a blinged up thing with a navy jacket and sparkles anyway- who is right? (I did used to have a WB, I usually wore a navy jacket on, and a bling browband, and always plaitted - Im having far more fun now! (And doing better)


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## Pigeon (26 January 2015)

I have arthritis so when it's cold I physically cannot plait. Even when it's warm they look like they were done by a chimp! Last time we competed I finished plaiting and they were so bad I took them out again  So remember some people have reasons for stuff like this  I actually think the condition of your horse (shiny, good topline and weight) does more for your general impression than plaiting.

I draw the line at shavings in the tail though


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## Colouredwelsh (26 January 2015)

Your turnout should be to breed standard or type in all cases be it showing/dressage/hunting etc. I am old school. I do judge. I show M&M's and show ponies. Both diverse in their turnout but still turned out meticulously as I would expect from anyone competing regardless of level. 

And then there is dress code. That's a completely different topic altogether. I don't do fashion. Just tradition. No bling on my ponies.


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## Aleka81 (26 January 2015)

Re hunting it's actually not always "correct" to plait....well not since the ban anyway


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## vam (26 January 2015)

I'm a show jumper, nuff said.


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## spookypony (26 January 2015)

While I do my best to present a well-brushed, plaited horse with clean tack and neat rider, I draw the line at giving a full bath in January to a mostly-unclipped grey that lives out. She's wearing a rug to help keep most of her clean, but if there are hints of brown left after thorough brushing, and her tail isn't pure white, that'll just have to do. It doesn't help if the venue car park is muddy enough that the just-washed legs (and my clean boots!) are immediately splattered again. It's a bit easier in the summer, and I'm really looking forward to lots of horse polishing then, and a proper comparative study of tail-whitening methods!

For Endurance, I do the full matchy-matchy thing, and the pony's tail is brushed and conditioned in all its glory, and his mane is in a running plait with a ribbon to match his gear. Thankfully, he's bay.

As for hacking, I brush off those bits where the tack goes, and off we go. Daylight is short enough as it is.


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## NinjaPony (26 January 2015)

I haven't always plaited my pony- before I took his feathers off I left him unplaited as he is a Connemara so it looked odd- I still showed at that point so I turned him out to type. Now we compete regularly at dressage the feathers are off and I always plait him. Granted, my plaits aren't the neatest and his mane is a nightmare to plait because he has a two inch rubbed section that always seems to fall out/get rubbed every year despite my best efforts, but I wouldn't dream of not plaiting. He is a grey which makes life a lot harder but that's just tough really- he still needs to be as clean as possible and it takes more effort for me but hey-ho, that's what happens when you buy a nearly white pony! He scrubs up very nicely and I wash his tail every week to keep it white. I do think turnout is important- I love getting all dressed up for competitions in proper posh gear and I think its respectful to the judge and venue to look smart.
ETA the best thing I've ever been given has to be a pre-tied stock.. I know that's sacrilege in some people's eyes but honestly, it looks smart every single time rather than my shoddy stock tying and takes 2 seconds in a hurry!


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## Firewell (27 January 2015)

I have osteoarthritis in my hands and fingers and I always plait for dressage. My horse also won't let me pull his mane he hates it, so I have to trim it with scissors. This makes it even harder to plait as it's so thick but I still do about 20 odd plaits to get them small and neat.
I don't always wash him as he's a chestnut with no white but he gets groomed to an inch of his life, covered in coat spray, hooves oiled, tack clean. 
I like him looking shining and spanking! He wears a special show headcoller and clean show rug.
I haven't gone to the effort of riding every day, having lessons and learning my test to let myself down by looking untidy.
To me any show is a special occasion I take pride in. I want my horse looking the best horse there . Eventing I wear tweed and plain tack for dressage. Dressage it's navy and sparkly brow band! 
I think it's only fair to the judge who's giving up their day sitting their for hours, for no money or reward other than the joy of horses to show respect by looking smart.
I appreciate the person's excuse with the exracer thoughI can imagine that's hard. In fact I know it's hard I've been there with my old horse.


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## Pigeon (27 January 2015)

Firewell do you use grippy spray or anything? I can't even really hold a pen at the moment so it's keeping hold of the strands that's the problem, rather than the plaiting itself! My last attempt took about two hours and looked dire!

I wonder if I could shave his mane off and get velcro plaits to stick on


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## HashRouge (27 January 2015)

RunToEarth said:



			I completely agree OP - out hunting a few weeks ago at a lawn meet, loads of people in wax jackets because it was raining - Exmoor and Ireland excluded - since when did it become acceptable to sit at a flipping lawn meet with a barbour on - really really rude IMO. There is no way I'd go out unplaited, if nothing else it just looks smarter.
		
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Not everyone is going to know that, though. Like I would have no idea why it is okay to wear a barbour jacket hunting in Exmoor, but not anywhere else. Not that I own a barbour jacket - I'd be wearing an anorak 

I'm an SJ groom and while the horses I work with are always very well turned out, I can also sympathize that this isn't possible for everyone. The horses I work with are stable kept, so they don't get that dirty anyway, they are all fully clipped (even head and legs) and we have hot water, wash boxes and heat lamps, so even in winter we can keep them spotless. They're also looked after by a team of grooms whose job it is to keep them looking smart, so it would be embarrassing if they didn't look their best at every competition! But I can also imagine how hard it must be to try and make sure a field-kept or unclipped horse is perfectly turned out and smart even in winter. How are you supposed to bath a horse when it is hairy, you have no hot water and it would take hours to dry? And if I were a judge I'd rather watch a scruffy horse that performs well and is well-ridden, than one that is sparkling clean, all the  right gear etc, but is poorly schooled or badly ridden. Performance is and should be more important than presentation, especially when people are doing it for fun and might not have the time to spend hours on presentation.

I also never plait - our lot are only plaited for big classes at big shows, the rest of the time they are left. That's how my boss likes it and it's very common for showjumpers. But on the upside, that means their manes always have to be perfect and, since my boss's GF doesn't like pulling, I can cut a mane with scissors and make it look like it's been pulled by a pro


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## spookypony (27 January 2015)

HashRouge, yours is the epitome of reasoned and tolerant answers! 

Firewell, if I still lived in Cali, I'd probably give my horses a bath every day, just for the he77 of it.

I just feel sorry for the Spooky Pony: he's to have TWO baths in the next few weeks, because the Dectomax didn't sort out the lice completely. It's FEBRUARY in NE Scotland (and everywhere else, but not sure that counts in southern Cali!  )


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## MagicMelon (27 January 2015)

nikicb said:



			I think it is sad when people don't make an effort.
		
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You forget though that some people have other things going on. I for example, find it hard to find the time to wash and plait for what is essentially 8 minutes in the ring (2 tests). My OH often works weekends, I have the horses at home and I have my 2yo son to look after. My mother meets me at events to babysit him for me. I suggest those who think we can't be bothered or are rude try washing and plaiting a white horse (who lives out 24/7) in a frozen solid yard in the freezing cold (we don't all have covered yards and warm showers so poor horse suffers!) WHILST trying to keep an eye on a 2yo very active boy running about dunking his arms into the water trough, wondering off to chat to the other horses in the field etc.!  I would not subject my horse to practically freezing to death getting a bath outside in January in NE Scotland with no hot water. Anybody that does do that (purely for a little show!) is crazy IMO.  So no, I dont think its worth it to wash and plait in the winter for a dressage competition (or SJ etc.). By choice though I would never plait ever, I hate doing so - what a silly, pointless poncy thing to do!  I'm there to try and perform well, who gives a crap what I look like, it is not a fashion show!  This is why our sport isn't taken seriously!  

The last time I actually DID make an effort - I washed my ex-competition horse as due to injury he only does very low level dressage but he'd qualified for some venue finals (very low key) so I thought I'd make the effort and wash him (he's also grey like my other one). Took the ramp down on arrival to find him literally dripping in sweat head to toe (no idea why, just very excited to be out!) and because he'd been leaning on the trailer sides he was brown all over and I couldn't wash him properly as no time so his coat then dried wavy, I almost cried. I actually apologised to the judges that day...


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## nuttychestnut (27 January 2015)

I fully understand that it's very nice for all horses and riders to be turned out tidily and correctly, but personally I'd rather people were safe, happy and there to enjoy their horse/s at a competition. If my horse had to be completely mud free, washed and plaited for every event, I don't think I would bother competing. As long as the horse is clean where the tack sits, what does it really matter? 
Not everyone has the facilities or time to fully wash their horse before each show. Surely the organisers are happy to have some attendance?


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## Colouredwelsh (29 January 2015)

nuttychestnut said:



			I fully understand that it's very nice for all horses and riders to be turned out tidily and correctly, but personally I'd rather people were safe, happy and there to enjoy their horse/s at a competition. If my horse had to be completely mud free, washed and plaited for every event, I don't think I would bother competing. As long as the horse is clean where the tack sits, what does it really matter? 
Not everyone has the facilities or time to fully wash their horse before each show. Surely the organisers are happy to have some attendance?
		
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OMG I find that an appalling attitude to have and with total disrespect to the judge


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## MileAMinute (29 January 2015)

nuttychestnut said:



			I fully understand that it's very nice for all horses and riders to be turned out tidily and correctly, but personally I'd rather people were safe, happy and there to enjoy their horse/s at a competition. If my horse had to be completely mud free, washed and plaited for every event, I don't think I would bother competing. As long as the horse is clean where the tack sits, what does it really matter? 
Not everyone has the facilities or time to fully wash their horse before each show. Surely the organisers are happy to have some attendance?
		
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Maybe not, but people could at least make an effort. I have a grey and still manage to be semi presentable! He may not be spotless but he will have a decent groom, his mane pulled and plaited, tack cleaned etc.


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## nuttychestnut (29 January 2015)

I don't think having a horse that is au natural is disrespectful. For some competing is stressful enough without the added worry of is my horse clean enough. 
Personally I wouldn't be washing my horse in below 15 degree temps just to make him look spotless, I try my hardest to get him clean but I'm not going to make him have a cold bath to achieve the spotless look. 
Plus you have no idea what the other competitors situation is. Personally I'd rather have people their to compete with than have rules set that decline the number of entries. Sorry in my original post I didn't explain myself very well. I'm sure centres would rather have a full attendance than set rules that reduced the number of people that attended.


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## Colouredwelsh (29 January 2015)

I never bath in cold water. I'm on a livery yard that does not provide hot water. I take barrels of hot water from my house to the yard and then bath. 
I have always been brought up to turnout correctly, my ponies have always been immaculate, I've won many best turned out prizes with the racehorses and when working for several famous international showjumpers the horses were never ever taken out without being immaculate.

I suppose it's just we have been brought up differently. But at least when my ponies are in the ring I am happy with their turnout and know that nobody can ever say they don't look well.

Overall picture is everything. That includes turnout.


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## sarahann1 (29 January 2015)

nuttychestnut said:



			I fully understand that it's very nice for all horses and riders to be turned out tidily and correctly, but personally I'd rather people were safe, happy and there to enjoy their horse/s at a competition. If my horse had to be completely mud free, washed and plaited for every event, I don't think I would bother competing. As long as the horse is clean where the tack sits, what does it really matter? 
Not everyone has the facilities or time to fully wash their horse before each show. Surely the organisers are happy to have some attendance?
		
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I can't agree with this at all, showing, dressage whatever you're doing is about showing the horse off to its best. My instructor judges, she's given me many insights, including down to how to brush the horses legs to best disguise or highlight good points.

If people committ to take a horse out and compete, correct turnout should also be part of that commitment. There are ways and means of getting a horse clean without a full bath.


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## nikicb (29 January 2015)

MagicMelon said:



			You forget though that some people have other things going on. I for example, find it hard to find the time to wash and plait for what is essentially 8 minutes in the ring (2 tests). My OH often works weekends, I have the horses at home and I have my 2yo son to look after. My mother meets me at events to babysit him for me. I suggest those who think we can't be bothered or are rude try washing and plaiting a white horse (who lives out 24/7) in a frozen solid yard in the freezing cold (we don't all have covered yards and warm showers so poor horse suffers!) WHILST trying to keep an eye on a 2yo very active boy running about dunking his arms into the water trough, wondering off to chat to the other horses in the field etc.!  I would not subject my horse to practically freezing to death getting a bath outside in January in NE Scotland with no hot water. Anybody that does do that (purely for a little show!) is crazy IMO.  So no, I dont think its worth it to wash and plait in the winter for a dressage competition (or SJ etc.). By choice though I would never plait ever, I hate doing so - what a silly, pointless poncy thing to do!  I'm there to try and perform well, who gives a crap what I look like, it is not a fashion show!  This is why our sport isn't taken seriously!  

The last time I actually DID make an effort - I washed my ex-competition horse as due to injury he only does very low level dressage but he'd qualified for some venue finals (very low key) so I thought I'd make the effort and wash him (he's also grey like my other one). Took the ramp down on arrival to find him literally dripping in sweat head to toe (no idea why, just very excited to be out!) and because he'd been leaning on the trailer sides he was brown all over and I couldn't wash him properly as no time so his coat then dried wavy, I almost cried. I actually apologised to the judges that day...
		
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Ok I ummed and aahed about replying, but you picked just a few words out of my response and I also said that "it feels wrong not to plait etc.".  I keep my horses at home, have two greys, two children (both boys if that makes a difference), a husband that never goes the yard side of the gate and a mother that has never in the 30 odd years I have ridden been to a single competition.  I don't have a covered yard or warm showers and although I don't live in Scotland, I would never dream of bathing a horse sub 18 degrees C.  However, if I compete, I like to make an effort.  If I don't have time to make the effort, including finding people to look after my children etc. I don't compete.  I don't want this to be a competition as after all it is a hobby, but personally, if I can't get me and my horse out there and well presented, I don't go.  But that's just me, so if those things don't matter to you, then I respect the fact that you get out there. x


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## NZJenny (30 January 2015)

MagicMelon said:



			By choice though I would never plait ever, I hate doing so - what a silly, pointless poncy thing to do!  I'm there to try and perform well, who gives a crap what I look like, it is not a fashion show!
		
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Obviously not you, given that wee rant.


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## YorksG (30 January 2015)

I'm another in the old school camp, I won't bath if it is too cold, but I will brush! For any comp, my hair will be in a bun and a net and the horse turned out to type, plaited if appropriate. One of the most mortifying things was the daughters of one of RC committee members turning up at a 'fun' show in her filthy mucking out coat,long hair loose and her sister, similarly attired effing and blinding while in the ring, to a friend who was spectating! That is what happens when slipping standards are allowed imo


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## JustKickOn (30 January 2015)

I plait for dressage when I can. The mare can get quite stressy sometimes, and it is difficult to get tidy plaits in something that is leaping around the yard and will not stand still, not to mention dangerous as she can lose her sense of special awareness. When she is chilled out, I will plait. I would far rather do my dressage test on a horse that hasn't been wound up before hand and is thus tense and on edge in the test, and if that means unplaited mane, then so be it. I'm not being rude to the judge, I just physically cannot get plaits in sometimes!


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## Colouredwelsh (30 January 2015)

nikicb said:



			Ok I ummed and aahed about replying, but you picked just a few words out of my response and I also said that "it feels wrong not to plait etc.".  I keep my horses at home, have two greys, two children (both boys if that makes a difference), a husband that never goes the yard side of the gate and a mother that has never in the 30 odd years I have ridden been to a single competition.  I don't have a covered yard or warm showers and although I don't live in Scotland, I would never dream of bathing a horse sub 18 degrees C.  However, if I compete, I like to make an effort.  If I don't have time to make the effort, including finding people to look after my children etc. I don't compete.  I don't want this to be a competition as after all it is a hobby, but personally, if I can't get me and my horse out there and well presented, I don't go.  But that's just me, so if those things don't matter to you, then I respect the fact that you get out there. x
		
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My sentiments entirely. So glad it's not just me.


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## Pigeon (30 January 2015)

This is interesting because the other day I read that people were worried dressage was turning into showing!! (the flash horses winning despite the plainer types being better trained) I love the look of a plaited horse. However I do totally get where people are coming from on the other side - it's supposed to be a sport, not a fashion show, and the fact that they're likely cutting dressage from the Olympics may have something to do with this. It's kind of weird for an athlete to have to wear a shadbelly. 

Is it only dressage judges who are unpaid? Or all judges? Does anyone know the reasoning behind this?


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## Hedge_pig (30 January 2015)

This sort of thing is exactly why equine competition is going down the pan. People spend more time worrying about whether they have the right shade of jacket/browband/eyeshadow than actually training their horse. The number of beautifully scrubbed and plaited warmbloods I see haring around out of control, kicking out at the boards and mowing down grannies is unreal.

And in what way is not plaiting disrespectful to the judge?! As people have said, there are many reasons why people may not plait, and none of them are designed to p*** off the judge. Any judge worth their salt will be looking at how the horse is moving and whether they have been trained correctly, not counting their plaits or measuring the length of their feathers. Has anyone ever heard a judge say "well I noticed she had some mud in her feathers and I was sooo offended, how dare she be so disrespectful!"?

Personally, I refuse to rip my horse's hair out and bath her her in the cold (you may use warm water but it cools off pretty quick in the cold!) for the sake of this ridiculous concept of 'respecting' the judge. I'm respecting them by training my horse well and presenting the way we work together. We are clean and tidy, but I will not compromise her welfare for the 99% of the time we're not competing for the sake of misdirected 'respect'. And I like the way her untraditional, long, loose mane and tail look in our pics.


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## Colouredwelsh (30 January 2015)

Obviously its the showing peeps who are sticklers for turnout!!! I can assure you, if I took my show pony into a HOYS qualifier without being plaited id be marched out the ring to a thunder of guffawsand probably shamed into never gracing the showring again!!

Would I do that - me thinks not. We obviously have a different mentality to what is acceptable turnout. I pull my ponies manes & tails, I don't 'rip their hair out' and I also quartersheet to brush & bath, you seem to miss the point ive been brought up turning ponies out to the highest standard, this does not mean I compromise their welfare in any way, shape or form. Its amazing just what measures I go to to keep my ponies warm actually!!!!


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## Lucyad (30 January 2015)

When I have written for judges they have never commented on turnout at all, and have all judged the way the horse is going, and the riding - as is totally correct.  Are you confusing it with showing?  Of course turn-out is part of the judging in that instance...

Respect for the judge is shown by being polite, punctual, thanking on leaving arena, thanking organisers, stewards etc.  Not bitching about other competitors appearance.


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## JoJo_ (30 January 2015)

I am an event organiser in NE Scotland and we do monthly unaffiliated/affiliated dressage. I have asked quite a few judges their opinions on plaiting and they all do not care whether someone plaits up or doesnt in the slightest. The only time it has ever been mention was when an affiliated person had plaited their gypsy cob's forelock, tucked it under the browband and it kept thumping said horse in the face (plait wasnt rolled up at all). So this was mentioned because it was affecting the horse.

I think horses should of course be groomed and not come to compete caked in mud but I cant say I have seen many people turn up with bog ponies to compete on. 

I personally dont tend to plait for dressage unless i'm competing at Nationals/Regionals, a bigger occasion than the usual monthly comps


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## JoJo_ (30 January 2015)

Lucyad said:



			When I have written for judges they have never commented on turnout at all, and have all judged the way the horse is going, and the riding - as is totally correct.  Are you confusing it with showing?  Of course turn-out is part of the judging in that instance...

Respect for the judge is shown by being polite, punctual, thanking on leaving arena, thanking organisers, stewards etc.  Not bitching about other competitors appearance.
		
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Agree with this 100%. Appearance never upsets a judge but if you are late or rude that makes for an unhappy judge.


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## JoJo_ (30 January 2015)

Pigeon said:



			Is it only dressage judges who are unpaid? Or all judges? Does anyone know the reasoning behind this?
		
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I think most dressage judges are paid an amount for travel but they dont do it to make any money out of it so we are always very grateful for their time and as should all competitors as without them and the volunteers we wouldnt have a sport! The showing judges we have had usually turn down money for travel so we always make sure to have a bottle of wine and lunch on the day for them.


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## ljohnsonsj (30 January 2015)

I showjump and still turn my horses out to a high standard. They are bathed/groomed. Manes cut and tails pulled, all tack cleaned and all white bits extra clean. White saddlecloths and plaited for national and championships,also county shows. I do it for myself though, because i like seeing them turned out that well, and I would never judge anyone else on the appearance of their horse, unless it had literally been brought in and not touched and tacked up, then I think that is wrong.


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## LittleRooketRider (30 January 2015)

Pigeon said:



			THowever I do totally get where people are coming from on the other side - it's supposed to be a sport, not a fashion show, and the fact that they're likely cutting dressage from the Olympics may have something to do with this. It's kind of weird for an athlete to have to wear a shadbelly.
		
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Why on earth would people being concerned about turnout result in it being dropped from the olympics???
All the horses at the olympics were immaculately turned out not for fashon but looking clean and smart. It certainly wasn't a fashion parade CD and Valegro won because they did the best test..not becuase he was wearing the latest fashion. I am very confused by this statement about dressage being dropped from the olympics.


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## Pigeon (30 January 2015)

LittleRoodolphRider said:



			Why on earth would people being concerned about turnout result in it being dropped from the olympics???
All the horses at the olympics were immaculately turned out not for fashon but looking clean and smart. It certainly wasn't a fashion parade CD and Valegro won because they did the best test..not becuase he was wearing the latest fashion. I am very confused by this statement about dressage being dropped from the olympics.
		
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Apparently non horsey people don't take dressage seriously because of what the riders wear. It reinforces the negative connotations about dressage being for the moneyed I guess. Don't ask me, I don't care what people wear!! But that is apparently the prevailing opinion, and might go some way towards explaining why it's being dropped. Or at least that's what some are saying.


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## nuttychestnut (30 January 2015)

Thank you! Someone on my side!


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## meardsall_millie (31 January 2015)

My horses don't leave the yard either for training or competition unless they're neat, tidy and appropriately turned out for whatever it is we're doing.

I don't do because of etiquette.
I don't do it out of respect for the judge.
I don't do it out of respect for the organisers.
I don't do it because of what anyone else might think.
I don't do it because I'm trying to emulate a 'professional'

I do it for me.  Because I spend countless hours training my horses to be the best we can be, and I'm damned if I'm going to belittle all of that time, effort and money by turning up somewhere looking scruffy for the sake of an extra bit of elbow grease.

Having said that, nor do I criticise others for their choices.  Each to their own and all that.


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## avthechav (31 January 2015)

Wow!! What a range of opinions, j particularly like the comment a few pages back that if you don't want to spend hours on turn out and probably wouldn't  compete as much if you had to, you have an awful attitude. 

Tbh I think that it's one of those things that if it's not upsetting anyone, why is is a problem? I am vvvvv lucky to have my horses at home but with that comes mud and no facilities. I love it when my horses look immaculate and in the summer with the daylight hours and warmer weather so my kettled hot water doesn't cool down in 5 mins I would say my turn out is good. But In winter it is just impossible to get the same standard. Also I do it for fun and work full time as many of us do..... So if I go to my local unaff dressage comp with a dressage time of 9.15 I prob won't plait, and in fact if full on perfect turn out was mandatory I prob wouldn't compete in the winter. I think my show centre would rather have my entry. 

Last time I went out I did spent 45 mins scraping the mud off my skebald horse the night before with tepid water in the dark. We were both thoroughly miserable by the time I had finished- the next day when I took his rug off he still had tide marks and looked fairly scruffy but as the rubber arena was underwater and making everyone muddy you couldn't tell who had made an effort and who hadn't.


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## Luci07 (31 January 2015)

I always make an effort. It's part of the process for me. It did feel decidedly odd to plait when the last CT we did was at home but I still did it.

Plaiting is a godsend for me. My horses mane never looks great as will not stay on one side, despite numerous plaiting over.


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## Cortez (31 January 2015)

Oh I looove playing Pretty Ponies; takes me back to my childhood when we'd spend hours and hours plaiting and primping just for the fun of it (my Barbie substitute I suppose). But now lack of time and encroaching arthritis in hands means that grooming has to be kept to the minimum. Tack, horse and rider being basically clean is enough and has nothing to do with the judge.


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## Colouredwelsh (31 January 2015)

meardsall_millie said:



			My horses don't leave the yard either for training or competition unless they're neat, tidy and appropriately turned out for whatever it is we're doing.

I don't do because of etiquette.
I don't do it out of respect for the judge.
I don't do it out of respect for the organisers.
I don't do it because of what anyone else might think.
I don't do it because I'm trying to emulate a 'professional'

I do it for me.  Because I spend countless hours training my horses to be the best we can be, and I'm damned if I'm going to belittle all of that time, effort and money by turning up somewhere looking scruffy for the sake of an extra bit of elbow grease.

Having said that, nor do I criticise others for their choices.  Each to their own and all that.
		
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Well said.


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## Lyle (1 February 2015)

While I can (to a degree)  understand there are reasons for not plaiting at a competition, I do think there is no excuse for not having a well groomed horse, clean tack, and appropriate riding attire (again, clean!). As someone who has never ha(up until recently, and paying through the nose for it!) any form of 'facility', you learn crafty ways to still turn a horse out like it's been bubble-bathed and wrapped it it's cosy box all night. However, it mainly simply requires effort and elbow grease. An excellent grooming and hot towelling will bring both dark and light bodied horses up very nicely during winter. A bit of fairy liquid with water in a spray bottle will get the worst mud-stains on hocks and knees off the grey horses. Good rugs will keep them clean too! And I will always plait, even if I don't have necessarily have 'time', because I make myself time! I'll plait in the dark, with a head torch the night before, and put a neck cover on. I know I'll have to be up early to scrape the mud off again, but that's just how it is!! 

I definitely believe poor turnout shows a distinct attitude towards the horses and their riding....


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## Pie's mum (1 February 2015)

We jump at unaffiliated level and I have to admit I don't plait. Mostly because Pie utterly hates having the top part of his mane fiddled with (ear twitched as a youngster we think - he was terribly ear shy when I first got him). However I do always make sure that he's clean and tidy which is no fun at all as he is blue and white. This time of year I don't wash his body - seems to stay sparkly white under his rug. I wash him in thirds - neck and mane while rest of him is rugged, rug up over neck while I do front legs. Leg wraps on then do back legs, bum and tail. I can't say I enjoy it but I don't like going out in public when he's beige.
But then I'm also a bit particular about how clean he is for my lessons too. I don't wash him for lessons but I like to make sure he's well groomed and we are both neat and tidy.


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## kassieg (1 February 2015)

I won't take my horse to a lesson without her being sparkling & me being smart never mind a competition. Today she was out for a few hours before hand so she had legs & tail washed, mane plaited over (hate winter manes  ) & I keep a smart coat & make sure my boots are clean. I would hate for someone to think oh nice horse shame about the appearance ! 

if I am showjumping I don't plait up but dressage even just unaffiliated I will always plait up & she never goes to a comp without being bathed or hot clothed in winter. 

The only thing I don't do is a hairnet 1 because I have so much hair & 2 because I hate the feel of them so I plait my hair & put it in a bun so its nice & tidy.


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## khalswitz (1 February 2015)

I've always gone groomed and plaited to dressage, with a neat and cut tail, but I very rarely wash unless it's a big show (although I will often wash his lower legs). My horse lives out - I'm not going to wash all the oils out of his coat, but he will be clean and mud free. I plait for dressage, or eventing, but not for pure sj.

I also go clean and pulled to any lesson or clinic.

Not out of respect, but for the same reason I brush my hair and teeth and do my makeup if I'm going out - because I like to look presentable. 

My horse prepping takes my half an hour including plaiting, so it's not long.

Dress code is a different matter. I wear a cream stock with a tweed jacket (shock!) because I like that. I also turn up in a shirt and smart sweat to sj rather than jacket if it's unaff. I've never been hunting, and whilst I used to show I didn't like the strictness on turnout for type etc, so I don't do that anymore - I wouldn't do it if I didn't appreciate the rules. Dressage etc the turnout rules are clear in the handbook - I am smart and within the rules, but I'm probably not correct a lot of the time.


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## Cortez (1 February 2015)

I am a judge (dressage), and I have to say I have never been offended by (or even particularly noticed) anyone's turnout, or lack thereof. I am, however, frequently offended by bad riding and training..........


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## Colouredwelsh (1 February 2015)

Cortez said:



			I am a judge (dressage), and I have to say I have never been offended by (or even particularly noticed) anyone's turnout, or lack thereof. I am, however, frequently offended by bad riding and training..........
		
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Out of interest how do you turn your own horses out for competition???


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## Cortez (1 February 2015)

Colouredwelsh said:



			Out of interest how do you turn your own horses out for competition???
		
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Clean, plaited (french braid on the mane - they are Spanish or Friesian with long manes), washed saddle pad, tack cleaned and boots polished. But I do that for me, not the judge.


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## MyDogIsAnIdiot (1 February 2015)

My main bugbear is lack of hairnets for the SJers - hair in ponytail and flying everywhere, drives me mad! 

I will ride at home if I've just chipped the mud off where the saddle sits but wouldn't dream of leaving the yard like it, or going to a lesson with me, my horse, or my tack being less than spotless.


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## Colouredwelsh (1 February 2015)

Cortez said:



			Clean, plaited (french braid on the mane - they are Spanish or Friesian with long manes), washed saddle pad, tack cleaned and boots polished. But I do that for me, not the judge.
		
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So would you be happy taking them out looking shabby?? Probably not as you wouldn't want your STANDARDS SLIPPING!!!!! Nuff said!!??


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## blood_magik (1 February 2015)

I can see both sides of the argument. If it's traditional/expected/appropriate (ie showing/hunting) then you should really make the effort. On the other hand, I can understand why some people might not be as bothered about turnout.

I don't spend ages grooming/scrubbing for every day riding but I do make sure we're presentable for lessons. Okay, my boots could be a bit cleaner but I make the effort to run a damp cloth over them before I get on. 

For shows, my lot usually get bathed the day before and tidied up. If they're jumping for the yard, they're plaited but I generally don't bother when I go out by myself - Their manes are kept short and trimmed so they look neat and tidy anyways and I like to have something to grab hold of if I get into bother. That said, I did plait for the last dressage test I did and for team SJ.
I always clean my boots, tack and the boys' boots the night before a show.


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## GinaGeo (1 February 2015)

I did some unaff dressage the other day. A lot of people didn't plait, I couldn't bring myself to not. It did mean that I got a really lovely photograph though 

Mine has such an unruly mane that without plaiting, he'd look a complete scruff!


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## lurcherlu (1 February 2015)

Moomin1 said:



			Yes, does my brains in when I go showing and some of the sights who turn up actually get placed.  Though I have to say, I couldn't give a monkey's backside whether someone turns up unplaited to a hunt - who is judging exactly? Surely a hunt is not about appearance?  Though I don't hunt, so am probably well off the mark.  But I cannot see how not being plaited etc at a hunt should really be an issue.
		
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I was one of two people on a class of fifteen in an in hand shetland class to be in show gear , admittedly just a tweed and breeches with long boots , hat and hair in a net , tie etc all done . Some local rescue centre ponies turned up ponies manes on the wrong side , kids in tee shirts and jeans and wellies , ponies in head collars all placed above me . The reason the shet didnt place above those ?? Cos he walks around with his willy out when he's at shows making him look like a stallion he was cut at 4 and half and now likes to display when shown . His tail is down to the floor never been cut , mane is plaited over for weeks before a show and is then natural and placed on correct side , bathed and groomed , shown in an in hand bridle , no mane and tail conditioners etc just nice and clean and brushed . M stuff is clean , not perfect for in hand shetland stuff but I ride my coloured and sj before the shet comes out and I won't show him without a hard hat as he has in previous classes reared up and missed my face by inches .


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## Cortez (2 February 2015)

Colouredwelsh said:



			So would you be happy taking them out looking shabby?? Probably not as you wouldn't want your STANDARDS SLIPPING!!!!! Nuff said!!??
		
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Happy? No, but that's not "standards", that's just my regular routine. Other than braiding up the mane and a clean saddle pad I don't do anything out of the ordinary (and I don't always plait either). The point is I don't believe that anyone should look down their nose at other people because their grooming routine is not the same or doesn't comply with an arcane set of semi-secret, insider "rules". Who cares if a mane goes on one side of the neck or the other, or there are a certain number of plaits? What possible difference can it make to the performance of the horse? Very outmoded and snobbish IMO, possibly why showing has never appealed to me as a competitor, although I do judge that too occasionally (and yes, I am aware of all the silly "rules" attached to the various classes. In fact I find them rather quaintly amusing, in a historically interesting kinda way...).


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## LCH611 (2 February 2015)

I have always had greys (currently have 4/5 that are grey) and consequently I have got the art of scrubbing clean down to a fine art. I have also been known to do it on a (very) cold day, and I have never had the luxury of hot water - it is only comparatively recently that I have had the luxury of concrete and stables! If you are swift you can get them scrubbed and rugged warmly very quickly whilst you faff about doing legs, faces & tails. Likewise I can plait in 10 mins, so I rarely go anywhere unplaited, even though we have connies and it would be "acceptable" for them to be au naturel. I am quite happy with just brushing the mud off the places where the tack goes if I am going out for a quick hack, but if I am competing or hunting I like to make the effort.  However, each to their own!


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## Colouredwelsh (2 February 2015)

Cortez said:



			Happy? No, but that's not "standards", that's just my regular routine. Other than braiding up the mane and a clean saddle pad I don't do anything out of the ordinary (and I don't always plait either). The point is I don't believe that anyone should look down their nose at other people because their grooming routine is not the same or doesn't comply with an arcane set of semi-secret, insider "rules". Who cares if a mane goes on one side of the neck or the other, or there are a certain number of plaits? What possible difference can it make to the performance of the horse? Very outmoded and snobbish IMO, possibly why showing has never appealed to me as a competitor, although I do judge that too occasionally (and yes, I am aware of all the silly "rules" attached to the various classes. In fact I find them rather quaintly amusing, in a historically interesting kinda way...).
		
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Sorry but I really have to disagree with you. Maybe you shouldn't be judging showing classes for at least 2 reasons you've said above. You find the rules "silly"?? Why?? Do you find the bit rules in dressage "silly" and secondly, I'm sorry but you obviously have no idea why you DO NOT plait an even number down the neck.  

Oh dear, maybe it's not just turnout standards that are slipping!!!

And no, I'm not a snob and I don't look down my nose at people. I help those who wish to be helped. I give my time up to judge and I offer my experience at no cost.


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## ycbm (2 February 2015)

Colouredwelsh said:



			I'm sorry but you obviously have no idea why you DO NOT plait an even number down the neck.  

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I haven't got any idea either, can you explain?


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## Moomin1 (2 February 2015)

ycbm said:



			I haven't got any idea either, can you explain?
		
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It's because it can 'split the neck' into two halves visually - I can't explain it any clearer I'm afraid, I don't seem to be able to put what I mean into words lol!  Basically it doesn't do anything for the conformational appearance of the neck.


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## ycbm (2 February 2015)

Moomin1 said:



			It's because it can 'split the neck' into two halves visually - I can't explain it any clearer I'm afraid, I don't seem to be able to put what I mean into words lol!  Basically it doesn't do anything for the conformational appearance of the neck.
		
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I get it , thank you


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## Cortez (2 February 2015)

Moomin1 said:



			It's because it can 'split the neck' into two halves visually - I can't explain it any clearer I'm afraid, I don't seem to be able to put what I mean into words lol!  Basically it doesn't do anything for the conformational appearance of the neck.
		
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Actually, it is an even number for one sex, and an odd number for the other, but then that is a very old convention and perhaps not everybody remembers it nowadays. Oh, and many of the rules are silly because they serve no useful purpose other than to separate out those who are not in the know.


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## Moomin1 (2 February 2015)

Cortez said:



			Actually, it is an even number for one sex, and an odd number for the other, but then that is a very old convention and perhaps not everybody remembers it nowadays.
		
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I have no idea Cortez tbh - it has always been odd number for both in my time of showing (about 20yrs).  I can imagine it hasn't always been the case though.


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## Colouredwelsh (2 February 2015)

Moomin1 said:



			It's because it can 'split the neck' into two halves visually - I can't explain it any clearer I'm afraid, I don't seem to be able to put what I mean into words lol!  Basically it doesn't do anything for the conformational appearance of the neck.
		
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Thank you, I wasn't here to reply to the question. You explain it perfectly.


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## Illusion100 (2 February 2015)

From age 11, I was taught to have very high standards re: management/turnout and it has always stuck with me.

Although I have never done Showing, I have Evented and have always turned myself and horses out immaculately. I have never had hot water/solarium or any other sort of facilities to bathe a horse in cold weather, however I have never needed to as they were thoroughly groomed/strapped/and wet and dryed everyday. Due to mud, white socks and the bottom half of the tail will have had a wash but that's it.

The only time I have not plaited (with needle and thread, old school!) is for a lesson.

Manes, tails, ears, beards, legs and heels were kept maintained all year. 'Good' saddlecloths/coolers/travelling gamgee and bandages/headcollar/boots were kept clean and stored for sole use at lessons/comps, same for my 'good' boots/silks/jodphurs etc. Tack thoroughly cleaned night before.

I was appalled when a fellow livery stated they weren't even going to remove the worst of the caked on mud from their horse for a dressage comp in morning, so yes, standards are definitely slipping IMO.


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## Busybusybusy (3 February 2015)

I don't plait for dressage anymore because I also have a stressy TB who knows when he is going on an outing and turns into a complete plonker and I am trying to make his outings as calm as possible. He is out 24/7 so I don't bath him but will clean all the mud off so he is always clean and tidy with clean tack etc and I am turned out correctly. For showing though I am very particular and will try to look immaculate (probably don't succeed, but we do try!), having said that I try to avoid showing as I now find it is too much of a faff and very subjective.







For lessons I will be clean and tidy (mostly).


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## twobearsarthur (3 February 2015)

Cortez said:



			Actually, it is an even number for one sex, and an odd number for the other, but then that is a very old convention and perhaps not everybody remembers it nowadays. Oh, and many of the rules are silly because they serve no useful purpose other than to separate out those who are not in the know.
		
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If I can drag my ancient showing knowledge it was even for mares and odd for geldings. 
I love all the archaic showing rules and the history behind them. 
I am a stickler for old fashioned showing and hunting turnout. 
I also think it's easier to learn correct turnout today all thanks to google. 
I had dusty old hand me down books that told you how to do things the correct way. 
If other more modern sport disciplines eg dressage or show jumping have different standards that's fine. 
I love showing I love the rules of turnout and I enjoy getting it right. Each to their own. I have a tweed fetish obviously.


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## hairycob (3 February 2015)

Love the outbreak of pearl clutching these threads always bring on.


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## Deseado (3 February 2015)

hairycob said:



			Love the outbreak of pearl clutching these threads always bring on.
		
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Ha! Ha! Ha! Love that!


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## twobearsarthur (3 February 2015)

Pearl clutching???? 
Can you explain? never heard that phrase before.


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## Elf On A Shelf (3 February 2015)

Racehorse showing does my head in! People think that because they have a racehorse they dont need to school it or have it behave. They turn up in any old tack, bit and clothes. They don't even bother to watch a class before hand to see what they need to do and when they go in the ring they are clueless! And yet they expect to win because they have taken on a 'demon that was to be shot at the end of it's career'.

NO NO NO NO NO! You wouldnt go and do  a dressage test without learning it! 'Sorry judgey I didnt bother to read the test, I'm just going to bumble about and you can mark me on what I do' 

You don't go show jumping or xc without walking the course so why do people think it's ok to go into a showing class without a clue?!?

I have people callinv me a producer because my horse and myself are turned out correctly and immaculately, he is well schooled and I have been showing for years so I know what I am doing. I am far from a producer! My horse doesnt always behave 100% but he is a living,thinking animal but I remain in control and do look damned good even if I do say so myself! 

It is very telling when a judge thanks you loudly in the ring for doing everything right having just been subjected to people not even  following a simple set of instructions!


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## Pigeon (3 February 2015)

Colouredwelsh said:



			Sorry but I really have to disagree with you. Maybe you shouldn't be judging showing classes for at least 2 reasons you've said above. You find the rules "silly"?? Why?? Do you find the bit rules in dressage "silly" and secondly, I'm sorry but you obviously have no idea why you DO NOT plait an even number down the neck.  

Oh dear, maybe it's not just turnout standards that are slipping!!!

And no, I'm not a snob and I don't look down my nose at people. I help those who wish to be helped. I give my time up to judge and I offer my experience at no cost.
		
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That's because the bit affects the horse's way of going in what is supposedly a sport. You think the number of silly little bunches in his hair has any impact on how balanced his canter is?

If anything this thread has convinced me that plaiting is... useless.


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## Meowy Catkin (3 February 2015)

EKW - a question.  Are Racehorse to Riding Horse classes for TB's only, or could an arab ex racehorse take part?


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## tabithakat64 (3 February 2015)

I'm obsessed with correct turnout especially for showing. The amount of people I know who moan about not being placed when they haven't made the effort to turn themselves or their horse out appropriately for the class is untrue. 
If you have long hair you should use a hairnet or put it up in a neat bun anything else just looks messy.


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## twobearsarthur (3 February 2015)

They have to be registered with Wetherbys stud book and have ran a race in GB to qualify.


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## Elf On A Shelf (3 February 2015)

Faracat said:



			EKW - a question.  Are Racehorse to Riding Horse classes for TB's only, or could an arab ex racehorse take part?
		
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ROR showing is purely for wetherby's registered horses. Im not sure of their Arab stance in dressage or jumping or the likes. The Ex-racers Club are open to Arabs fir showing I think.


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## milliepops (3 February 2015)

Pigeon said:



			That's because the bit affects the horse's way of going in what is supposedly a sport. You think the number of silly little bunches in his hair has any impact on how balanced his canter is?

If anything this thread has convinced me that plaiting is... useless. 

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:lol:

I actually like putting my mare's hair in bunches  I am pretty quick at it and they look neat. Used to plait a yard full of hunters twice a week in the winter so I had to get speedy. But it's totally for my own pleasure, plus Millie gets a bit chirpy when the plaiting kit comes out!

I was shouted at by my very old school riding instructor as a young child (8 or 9) for turning up with muddy boots, so clean boots is a habit that has stuck.

But as an ex-eventer/now dressage rider, I do feel that plaiting and all of the turnout rules  are a bit of a daft tradition.  I always plait for affiliated comps but rarely do for anything unaffiliated.  Apart from Armas, whose flowing locks need to be plaited out of the way just for a hack round the woods!

It's a bit different for showing, granted. I don't show, I couldn't be doing with all of the ins & outs - secret code, if you like. One of the things I like about dressage is good training will always outshine your appearance.


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## Meowy Catkin (3 February 2015)

Thanks TBA and EKW, it's something that I ponder every time i see an arab ex racehorse for sale, but I've never actually looked up the regs for all the different showing classes (isn't TARRA another one?).


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## Elf On A Shelf (3 February 2015)

Pigeon said:



			If anything this thread has convinced me that plaiting is... useless. 

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We plait the racehorses at the races due to the £30-£50 Best Turned Out prize in every race - up to £250 for Championship races! Plus I like the plaited look!


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## Busybusybusy (3 February 2015)

EKW said:



			Racehorse showing does my head in! People think that because they have a racehorse they dont need to school it or have it behave. They turn up in any old tack, bit and clothes. They don't even bother to watch a class before hand to see what they need to do and when they go in the ring they are clueless! And yet they expect to win because they have taken on a 'demon that was to be shot at the end of it's career'.

NO NO NO NO NO! You wouldnt go and do  a dressage test without learning it! 'Sorry judgey I didnt bother to read the test, I'm just going to bumble about and you can mark me on what I do' 

You don't go show jumping or xc without walking the course so why do people think it's ok to go into a showing class without a clue?!
		
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I do think this is a bit of a generalisation - certainly the ex racehorse classes I have entered have had very well turned out and mostly well behaved horses, though I have to admit that I do get very peeved when horses that are badly behaved get placed above those who behave impeccably (my boy behaves himself and will go well for pretty much anyone who rides him) after all they are meant to be judged on their suitability to do another job - how is a horse that rears in the ring suitable?? 
My boy is a big rangy national hunt stamp TB who is reasonably well covered but is not, & never will be in jelly belly 'show condition' and too many show judges like overweight horses - Hence why I don't particularly like showing!


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## Colouredwelsh (3 February 2015)

EKW said:



			We plait the racehorses at the races due to the £30-£50 Best Turned Out prize in every race - up to £250 for Championship races! Plus I like the plaited look!
		
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I've won many best turned out prizes with the race horses in my time. I once won it with 3 different horses at one meeting. Yes I can and do turnout to a high standard because I want to and it reflects on me.


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## Elf On A Shelf (3 February 2015)

Busybusybusy said:



			I do think this is a bit of a generalisation - certainly the ex racehorse classes I have entered have had very well turned out and mostly well behaved horses, though I have to admit that I do get very peeved when horses that are badly behaved get placed above those who behave impeccably (my boy behaves himself and will go well for pretty much anyone who rides him) after all they are meant to be judged on their suitability to do another job - how is a horse that rears in the ring suitable?? 
My boy is a big rangy national hunt stamp TB who is reasonably well covered but is not, & never will be in jelly belly 'show condition' and too many show judges like overweight horses - Hence why I don't particularly like showing!
		
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Come up to my area of Scotland... The standard is shockingly bad! Embarrassingly so at times! Twice I have been thanked by judges for knowing what I am doing, once I got asked by the judge what SHE should be doing in the class! In the last 2 years where you would think because it is becoming more popular people would have more of a clue.


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## Elf On A Shelf (3 February 2015)

Colouredwelsh said:



			I've won many best turned out prizes with the race horses in my time. I once won it with 3 different horses at one meeting. Yes I can and do turnout to a high standard because I want to and it reflects on me.
		
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That is why I do 95% of the clipping on the yard! Everyone knows I do it and the others just don't do it properly! 1 girl leaves their full heads on - no matter how many times I scream at her for it - and the boss tells her to do half heads too. The rest just leave them all liney and streaky - it's not hard to see a great tuft of hair that you have missed! Honestly! 

I have also been known to pull plaits out and redo them as the horse is being saddled because who ever plaited it didn't do it properly! I'm too much of a stickler to let anything go out on show that isn't immaculate!


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## Colouredwelsh (3 February 2015)

EKW said:



			That is why I do 95% of the clipping on the yard! Everyone knows I do it and the others just don't do it properly! 1 girl leaves their full heads on - no matter how many times I scream at her for it - and the boss tells her to do half heads too. The rest just leave them all liney and streaky - it's not hard to see a great tuft of hair that you have missed! Honestly! 

I have also been known to pull plaits out and redo them as the horse is being saddled because who ever plaited it didn't do it properly! I'm too much of a stickler to let anything go out on show that isn't immaculate!
		
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Lol, you sound just like me. i also did most of the clipping/turnout as the young Irish lads didn't know how to brush one properly let alone plait lol. They would come over as young wannabe jocks and transformed into well schooled horsemen (well most of them anyway lol)


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## Pigeon (3 February 2015)

I even think half heads look terrible!! But again, proper clipping is not required for poncing!!  And so I wouldn't judge someone for competing with clip lines.


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## Elf On A Shelf (3 February 2015)

Pigeon said:



			I even think half heads look terrible!! But again, proper clipping is not required for poncing!!  And so I wouldn't judge someone for competing with clip lines.
		
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Bosses choice of clip! All off bar half head and legs! I feel bad clipping off their whole heads as A. they look cold (or in the case of the one I had to do the other day - he now looks likes a show dairy cow!) and B. I only have muckle big clippers to work with so can't so the eyes and ears properly. They keep their legs on as a bit off added protection when brushing through fences. 

I try teaching the children to clip and the boys pick it up well but think it is beneath them and the girls are just useless. I'd rather ask the lads to do it if I was running out of time!


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## Kadastorm (3 February 2015)

I'm another who has to be clean and plaited, even for jumping I'm afraid. You are going to show off yourself and your horses ability but surely you want to look smart too? 
My po does have half a head on though because we can't get near it with the clippers and he hates needles so I won't sedate (demosedan and sedaline don't work!)....so it's all off except the half a head!


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## lara b (4 February 2015)

I compete most weekends and dare to turn up with long flowing mane and feathers (he is traditional) and worse still a blanket clip!  Funnily enough neither of the above appear to have stopped his legs from working and we pull in decent scores (BD Elementary).  Presenting yourself clean and smart is fair enough but getting the stains out and cleaning his tack is where that definition ends for me (unless we are actually showing).  People have enough to juggle with full time jobs, family, friends and the endless dark and cold of winter without making the little bit of fun we have competing to become a complete chore too.. live and let live I say!


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## monkeymad (4 February 2015)

I have to admit I don't often plait for dressage. I do make sure my horse is clean, and I am anal about manes and tails, so they are always pulled and kept neat. Eventing I always plait, but unless I have oodles of time I don't plait for pure dressage - I certainly don't see it as being disrespectful to the judge or organisers. In my eyes people who don't thank the organisers at the end of the day, or people who are rude to the various volunteers at the show are disrespectful.


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## Elf On A Shelf (4 February 2015)

lara b said:



			I compete most weekends and dare to turn up with long flowing mane and feathers (he is traditional) and worse still a blanket clip!  Funnily enough neither of the above appear to have stopped his legs from working and we pull in decent scores (BD Elementary).  Presenting yourself clean and smart is fair enough but getting the stains out and cleaning his tack is where that definition ends for me (unless we are actually showing).  People have enough to juggle with full time jobs, family, friends and the endless dark and cold of winter without making the little bit of fun we have competing to become a complete chore too.. live and let live I say!
		
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Natives and traditionals I have no issue with keeping their manes and tails natural and not plaited as that is the way they are designed.


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## Chirmapops (4 February 2015)

While it's nice to look nice, as a judge I honestly can say the only way I would notice if you weren't plaited as you come down the centre line is if the horse's mane stuck up straight like a bog brush, it was one big poo stain and the rider's hair was like Lady Godiva - and even then I'm usually too busy watching the rhythm, activity of hindlegs, use of the musculature, accuracy of the figures etc to pay much attention to the quality of the plaiting. Certainly I find it amusing when showing people doing dressage think they should get extra points for turnout. I think riding a ice test, not jabbing your horse in the mouth and remembering to say thankyou on the final salute is all much more respectful to the judge!


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## lara b (4 February 2015)

Chirmapops said:



			While it's nice to look nice, as a judge I honestly can say the only way I would notice if you weren't plaited as you come down the centre line is if the horse's mane stuck up straight like a bog brush, it was one big poo stain and the rider's hair was like Lady Godiva - and even then I'm usually too busy watching the rhythm, activity of hindlegs, use of the musculature, accuracy of the figures etc to pay much attention to the quality of the plaiting. Certainly I find it amusing when showing people doing dressage think they should get extra points for turnout. I think riding a ice test, not jabbing your horse in the mouth and remembering to say thankyou on the final salute is all much more respectful to the judge!
		
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Hi, sorry slightly off topic but when you say 'remembering to say thank you' do you mean literally mouth 'thank you' at the judge?  Genuine question as it's not something I would have thought to do (no speaking kind of drilled into my head in tests!) so tend to salute and smile both at the start and end of my tests but I would be more than happy to do it if it's ok to do so?  Thanks


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## Batgirl (4 February 2015)

Not assuming what Chirmapops means but a nice thank you as you leave the halt spot (particularly if you have halted at G) is a nice respectful gesture.


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## Chirmapops (4 February 2015)

A smile is nice, I've always said thankyou as I've saluted - even if they can't hear they can lipread! I just hate to see a proper bootfaced half salute, no matter how badly the test has gone!


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## Chirmapops (4 February 2015)

Batgirl said:



			Not assuming what Chirmapops means but a nice thank you as you leave the halt spot (particularly if you have halted at G) is a nice respectful gesture.
		
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Spot on, exactly what I meant!


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## lara b (4 February 2015)

Thanks Batgirl and Chirmapops will do that from now on 



Chirmapops said:



			Spot on, exactly what I meant!
		
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## livetoride (4 February 2015)

Colouredwelsh said:



			I always ride in a hairnet at home too. I feel like I'm not quite dressed without. I Just feel scruffy.
		
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Oh yes, me too! Even for a schooling session or a hack.


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## Captain Bridget (4 February 2015)

I have to admit I don't plait to hunt. But I hunt with bloodhounds and it says on their website that it is not necessary to plait. If it were a lawn meet I would, but in general I don't, as my horses mane is horrible to plait! I just end up with untidy golf balls.  Much better to have it short and neat than falling out all over the place. 

When I show I turn him out to the best of my ability. I can't even hack out without getting every bit of mud off him in case I'm seen. He is always neat and tidy when we are out and about. At the moment he looks a little feral but I'm not going out at all! 

I wouldn't dare go out competing/hunting without a hairnet. I can't bear seeing people without them. Quite often it's young girls with long hair flapping about. I went to equine college and every time we rode we had to wear a hairnet, even if you were riding your own horse, so it's been drummed in to me. Admittedly sometimes it comes undone but my hair is somewhat akin to my horses and doesn't stay very well!!


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## MILLGREENLADY (4 February 2015)

Wow lots and lots of responses !! lots of different and mixed views made a good thread


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## Horsemad12 (5 February 2015)

Interesting thread.

I have a white grey.  She will always be groomed and mud free for my lessons but I won't bath for a lesson as she lives out and I don't think it will do her skin / legs any good.

I ALWAYS bath for a competition regardless of the standard / type as I personally would be ashamed to go in the ring on a grey with stable / Mud / grass stains.  Plaiting will vary on the nature of the competition but I don't plait to go show jumping.

I always have stain remover in the lorry for me to deal with poo stains that occur on route!

I (most of the time) enjoy getting turned out correctly for a competition and don't understand why people don't.  For a lesson I would be more flexible but again presentable and not scruffy.


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## Twiglet (6 February 2015)

Love pearl clutching 

To the poster who keeps banging on about it's how they 'were brought up' - whoopy for you. Just because people aren't born into hunting or showing families, does not make them any less of a competitor than you.

I always plait for dressage, normally for jumping and combined training too, and am always smart for lessons and clinics - not least because I normally end up buying the photos  I couldn't really care what others do - I take pleasure in my horse and I presenting a good picture, what others do is up to them. I take pleasure from turning out well, same as I take pleasure in dressing smartly and professionally for work. It doesn't make me do my job any better. 

One of my friends has a grey who, whilst normally plaited, can never be accused of looking smart....they are just something of a scruffy pair generally and not about the gear...but that's not to say they're not out for hours schooling, and spending their time on lessons, and money on physio. They are invariably placed at unaff and aff dressage (albeit their main discipline is eventing), and particularly at a certain local venue that's known for its enormous warmbloods who are plaited, groomed and blinged to the nines, which they regularly beat hands down. The comments from the judges definitely do not reflect any 'disrespect' taken from their turnout. 

Showing is different entirely - half the achievement of showing is looking pretty isn't it? 

The thing that annoys me with turnout is the stance that something should be done in a certain way, because that's the way it's always been done, regardless of the sensibility or practicality behind it. Hunt meets in Barbours for example - yes, it doesn't look as smart, but having seen quite a miserable bunch on boxing day set off in their hunt jackets/show jackets, having stood in temperatures of 0c in pouring rain before setting off, looking like drowned rats before the first line - I wouldn't have judged a soul in a sou'wester. Similarly, dressage on 30c+ days - is it really going to affect the quality of the test were the rider to compete in shirtsleeves (albeit most judges/venues do tend to see sense on this one now it seems)? I know a showjumper who refuses to plait his youngsters, because he wants them to have a relaxed first experience at shows, but also so he has some mane to grab on to in an emergency! 
It may always have been 'done that way', but hey, hats didn't have to used to conform to safety standards, no-one went cross country in body protectors, and air jackets were a thing of science fiction. Modernising the sport doesn't have to be a bad thing.


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## Meowy Catkin (6 February 2015)

Twiglet said:



			Love pearl clutching 

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It's a great phrase - I must start to use it.


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## Oscar (6 February 2015)

I'm a boy & can't plait (big clumsy fingers!!) always spik & span otherwise though!! 

Oh and I can't get my head round tail/French plaits!!


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## Elf On A Shelf (6 February 2015)

A lass with a horse in the same as mine earlier was heard loudly complaining that her horse didn't get the turnout prize - she'd bought those diamonte plaiting bands especially don'tcha know!  They are hideous! Sorry chuck but they are! Plus she lost 2 or 3 of them on the course with the jockey srubbing away and theres nay danger he had any pockets to take them off and put them in safely out of the way for the race lol!

I did however get the turnout prize and it's still grating on me now that my horse wouldn't let me trim his ears and that his tail wasn't cut dead straight (which I didn't notice til it was too late!) But hey ho!


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## Colouredwelsh (6 February 2015)

Twiglet said:



			Love pearl clutching 

To the poster who keeps banging on about it's how they 'were brought up' - whoopy for you. Just because people aren't born into hunting or showing families, does not make them any less of a competitor than you.
		
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Not sure if you are meaning me but I wasn't born into a hunting family. Yes my mother showed, Arabs actually, but that was before I was born. She taught the Whitakers to ride and always had a passion for showing. I was brought up in a single parent family from 6 yes old. Yes I had ponies, show ponies which my mum struggled to buy. I hated showing, always wanted to jump but I was always well turned out. I rode for a dealer too from being 8yrs old. Maybe because we were buying and selling is the reason I am meticulous about turnout. We never sold a 'dirty' horse. 

I don't think anyone is less of a competitor, I'm just a stickler for turnout. I'm good at turning my ponies out so why shouldn't I blow my own trumpet???


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## orionstar (6 February 2015)

Wasn't born into anything but working class, Mam and Dad still don't understand what I see in horses, but I would never enter a dressage competition without plaiting, and I've won several coloured in hand and ridden classes with my wbx straight from the field, even in spring without the horse being clipped. I still hoof oil chestnuts, although I do admit as I get older the appeal of scrubbing is wearing off!


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