# Cheshire/Staffs/Shrops Border - advice on which Hunt to join as a first timer



## Dab (4 August 2011)

Advice/experiences welcome please; as per the title I live on the Cheshire/Staffs/Shrops border (Audlem area) with a choice of Hunts within reasonable distance, the Cheshire, North Staffs, North Shrops, Royal Vale Bloodhounds (?). Im new to hunting as is my steed (ex-steeplechaser) and would like some advice as to which Hunt would be suitable for a newbie of moderate bravery!


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## Dab (8 August 2011)

*bump* new to the area, new to hunting, so any advice, thoughts, experiences really would be most helpful, pm me if thats more appropriate.

What about the Cheshire Farmers are they a welcoming bunch?


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## Maesfen (8 August 2011)

You're right on the boundary of both the North Staffs and the Cheshire there also not too far from the North Shropshire that meet in Shavington just outside Market Drayton.  Friendliest I would probably say  would be either of the Norths as they are mainly local people while the Cheshire have a lot of businessmen from out of their country too; those packs are foxhounds.  
I don't know anything about the Cheshire Farmers Drag and I believe the Vale Royal Bloodhounds have disbanded but don't quote me on that only that I know their hounds have been moved on to other packs or so I've been told.
There are a host of fun rides too run by the different hunts in the area so hope you can go along to those to meet people and get to know the land.  Our hunt (Wynnstay) have four rides, Sundays from the last one in September onwards; the North Shropshire have some at Sansaw near Shrewsbury, think the North Staffs is near Adderley.  A good place to look is in the Farmers Guardian.
Hope you enjoy yourself!


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## cptrayes (8 August 2011)

Cheshire Farmers are a very welcoming bunch and as a complete newby I would go with them because -

- they are a drag hunt and you will get predictable checks for a rest and guaranteed jumping
- they always have a way around any fence you don't want to jump.

The North East Cheshire (also very friendly) go faster, further and are also a drag, but there is no way around except on Beginner's meets. You have to be able to jump 2ft 9 on a variety of approaches and landings. They follow a scent laid by horse, the Farmers follow a scent laid by man and the checks have to be longer and the trails shorter to allow for how fast and long he can run with the scent.

Vale Royal Bloodhounds actually hunt the scent of the man, with bloodhounds (called hunting the clean boot) , so it is slower than hunting a strong scent trail a man laid some time before. I haven't been out with them so I can't tell you what they are like. 

Drag hunts hunt full on from the beginning of September at a reasonable time of day, no getting up at crack of dawn to go cubbing (early season hunting is the new politically correct term ) 

Both drags are cheap this year, subs of £200 or less and cap of £20/25. another reason to go with them as the ex-fox hunts are much more expensive, I think.


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## winterhorses2 (8 August 2011)

cptrayes said:



			The North East Cheshire go faster, further and are also a drag, but there is no way around except on Beginner's meets. You have to be able to jump 2ft 9 on a variety of approaches and landings. They follow a scent laid by horse, the Farmers follow a scent laid by man and the checks have to be longer and the trails shorter to allow for how fast and long he can run with the scent.
		
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Maybe so a few years ago, but i hunt with them. Last season apart from a couple of meets it was either optional jumping or a way round.
The speed is always dependant on scenting conditions and keeping with hounds so wouldn't say faster.
I also went out with the Farmers at the end of the season from the Unicorn and found it to be be a very "stiff" day, jumping 5 bar gates and jumps with wire over, no clear options there.

Have you been with us recently?


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## soulfull (8 August 2011)

Not sure how far away you are from Albrighton, but been with them a few times and nice easy, always a way round the jumps.  nice and friendly too


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## Dab (8 August 2011)

Thank you all for your advice and comments. All gratefully received 

soulfoul - unfortunately i think that the Albrighton might just be a little to far for me.

I will certainly check out the 'fun rides' run by the hunts, and try and get along to an Autumn meet run by the Cheshire Farmers.


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## cptrayes (8 August 2011)

winterhorses2 said:



			Maybe so a few years ago, but i hunt with them. Last season apart from a couple of meets it was either optional jumping or a way round.
The speed is always dependant on scenting conditions and keeping with hounds so wouldn't say faster.
I also went out with the Farmers at the end of the season from the Unicorn and found it to be be a very "stiff" day, jumping 5 bar gates and jumps with wire over, no clear options there.

Have you been with us recently?
		
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I had a full subscription with both hunts for the 2010/11 season. 

I went out about twelve times with NECDH, never on a children and beginner's meet and not one of those times was the jumping of small timber optional. The website for this season says that apart from beginner's meets you must be able to jump 2ft 6, but I would also warn people, most of whom aren't the thrill seeker that I am, that the 2ft 6 can be at the top or bottom of a bank, be very narrow with posts you can knock your knees on, or have a very short approach through trees or a drastic swerve on landing to avoid trees or a steep drop in the land. Jumping a 2ft 6 cross pole in a flat arena will not equip you for that kind of jumping unless you are also pretty brave and have a bold horse under you.

I hunted a similar number of times with the Farmers last season, and for two full seasons before that. There is always a way around, without question. You could take a child on a lead rein and people sometimes do. If you jumped gates or wire when you were out with the Farmers, then it must have been because you did not see the large number of people who go around. Half my friends out with the Farmers would faint if they were asked to jump a 5 bar gate. I don't jump them myself even though I do six foot hedges.

The speed of "the day" is faster with the Northeast because you are not waiting for a man to get his breath back to run the next leg. The leg is also longer so it feels like much more of a run, and checks are much shorter, which is a great bonus on a bad weather day in particular. It is more of a physical effort to do an "average" NECDH day than an "average" Farmers day (the Unicorn is not an "average" day, it's one of the better ones), and the NECDH often feels like much better value for money. I also found NECDH lines better prepared with more solidly built hunt fences and, stock allowing, all gates on a leg open before you get there and all hunt fences clear of wire. Neither were true of several Farmers meets that I went on. With the Farmers I have also in the past been expected on admittedly rare occasions to jump rusty gates leaned against a barbed wire fence, and wire itself (after the non-jumpers have been sent around).

Speed as a whole, I found, was much more dependant on the speed the field master was going than that of the hounds, since both hunts deliberately allow the hounds to go off some distance so that they can have a good fast run to catch them up. I would say, on the whole, that the typical NECDH meet has more runs that allow a real turn of speed than the Farmers, where meets are generally shorter in time and distance and several venues are hilly and choppy (though these can be a pleasant change if you like the varied going).

On the whole, I would recommend an absolute beginner to go out with the Farmers to get their hand in, but someone with experience wanting a longer day to go with the Northeast.

Whichever, I strongly recommend a flask of sloe gin, especially if I can have a sip


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## maggiesmum (8 August 2011)

cptrayes said:



			Whichever, I strongly recommend a flask of sloe gin, especially if I can have a sip 

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Is a must for dutch courage purposes!! ;-)


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## tootsietoo (10 August 2011)

Well, if you want foxhunting rather than drag, I have heard that the North Shrops are very friendly.  Despite having hunted with most of the adjacent hunts, I've never managed to actually go out with the North Shrops!  In Audlem you in Cheshire country.  Many of the Cheshire field are very into their big hedges, so it can seem a bit competitive, but there are also many friendly (and chicken!) people and of course you never have to jump anything you don't want to.  Try going out cubbing with all three packs and see what you think.  In the long run I think it's better to hunt with your local pack because you get to meet your neighbours, get to know your country and it's just generally nicer.


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## ajn1610 (10 August 2011)

I'm Cheshire and the Cheshire Forest is our local hunt (kennels are across the road from me!) but I think that's probably too far for you. 
I've been out with NECDH, Farmers and Vale Royal but not with enough regularity to comment on or compare them. I tend to do certain days on the recommendation of an experienced hunting friend rather than ride with a particular pack.   
There's also the four shires http://www.4shires.co.uk/ who I've had some lovely days out with. They run two fields jumping and non jumping so you can always get round if you want to. Nice country, good ground plenty of dry stone walls and hedges plus I love the bloodhounds, they're gorgeous!


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## whiteclover (11 August 2011)

Ive never hunted before but I fancy going so will try the Cheshire Farmers this season. Just need to sort out a hireling first.


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## chestnut cob (12 August 2011)

Am I right in thinking there are 2 Cheshire hunts... the Cheshire Farmers and the Cheshire Forest/Cheshire Hounds?  Talking to someone from my local hunt (I'm just over the border) the other day it seems that the Cheshire packs have a bit of a reputation for being "fast, furious and will jump anything and everything".  For some reason I thought the Forest were the faster pack and the Farmers a bit more sedate.  Be grateful if anyone can set me right?! 

I've been considering talking to the Cheshire Farmers to see if I can have a few days out with them - are they they pack who are sometimes on H&C TV?  It looks fairly sedate and civilised on there!


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## winterhorses2 (12 August 2011)

Cheshire Farmers are a drag pack and yes the ones that were on H&C, Forest are a foxhound pack.


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## cptrayes (12 August 2011)

chestnut cob said:



			Am I right in thinking there are 2 Cheshire hunts... the Cheshire Farmers and the Cheshire Forest/Cheshire Hounds?  Talking to someone from my local hunt (I'm just over the border) the other day it seems that the Cheshire packs have a bit of a reputation for being "fast, furious and will jump anything and everything".  For some reason I thought the Forest were the faster pack and the Farmers a bit more sedate.  Be grateful if anyone can set me right?! 

I've been considering talking to the Cheshire Farmers to see if I can have a few days out with them - are they they pack who are sometimes on H&C TV?  It looks fairly sedate and civilised on there!
		
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Cheshire Farmers and Northeast Cheshire are both drag packs and have a big overlap in the area that they hunt.  Drag packs have guaranteed checks so there is no need to keep up with any hellraisers at the front, you will catch them up when they stop and be in good company at the back with others of a like mind.

Cheshire Forest is a fox pack.


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## chestnut cob (13 August 2011)

cptrayes said:



			Cheshire Farmers and Northeast Cheshire are both drag packs and have a big overlap in the area that they hunt.  Drag packs have guaranteed checks so there is no need to keep up with any hellraisers at the front, you will catch them up when they stop and be in good company at the back with others of a like mind.

Cheshire Forest is a fox pack.
		
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Thank you   I just need to sort out a suitable saddle now then make a phone call to the Farmer's Secretary...  If it was left to him, I can guarantee my horse would prefer to be at the front with the hell raisers!  As long as I can get around the jumps (he no longer jumps) and there isn't a vast amount of road work, it will be fine for us.


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## whiteclover (14 August 2011)

numpty question but do the farmers have like a cubbing meets in September? Also can anyone recommend someone that does hirelings?


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## cptrayes (14 August 2011)

cavaletti said:



			numpty question but do the farmers have like a cubbing meets in September? Also can anyone recommend someone that does hirelings?
		
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The Farmers are meeting at 11 instead of 12.30 for September and dress is hacking jackets without plaiting. This is new this year.

Andrew Brown at Manor Farm (you can Google it) does hirelings but the turnout on the last one I saw left a lot to be desired, with an uncomfortable looking old saddle and a frayed-edge numnah with the binding torn off.

I think the Master,  David Harvey, might also do you a hireling if you ring him, number on cfdh website.


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## whiteclover (14 August 2011)

cptrayes said:



			The Farmers are meeting at 11 instead of 12.30 for September and dress is hacking jackets without plaiting. This is new this year.

Andrew Brown at Manor Farm (you can Google it) does hirelings but the turnout on the last one I saw left a lot to be desired, with an uncomfortable looking old saddle and a frayed-edge numnah with the binding torn off.

I think the Master,  David Harvey, might also do you a hireling if you ring him, number on cfdh website.
		
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Thanks CP trayes I will ring David Harvey. Have you heard of Andrew & Jo Callwood? Ive heard that they do hirelings as well.


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## chestnut cob (15 August 2011)

cptrayes said:



			The Farmers are meeting at 11 instead of 12.30 for September and dress is hacking jackets without plaiting. This is new this year.
		
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Do they not usually have autumn hunting meets?


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## cptrayes (15 August 2011)

cavaletti said:



			Thanks CP trayes I will ring David Harvey. Have you heard of Andrew & Jo Callwood? Ive heard that they do hirelings as well.
		
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Darn, it is Callwood I meant, not Brown. I don't have a clue where that came from  !!


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## cptrayes (15 August 2011)

chestnut cob said:



			Do they not usually have autumn hunting meets?
		
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The dates are as per usual, the timing and the dress code are new this year.


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## tootsietoo (15 August 2011)

Chestnut Cob, if you are in North Shrops, why not go out with the Cheshire?  It will take you ages to drive up to Cheshire Forest or Cheshire Farmers!  The Cheshire country stretches from just north of Whitchurch up to Delamere Forest and there are a lot of meets in the southern part of the country.


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## Maesfen (16 August 2011)

chestnut cob said:



			Am I right in thinking there are 2 Cheshire hunts... the Cheshire Farmers and the Cheshire Forest/Cheshire Hounds?  Talking to someone from my local hunt (I'm just over the border) the other day it seems that the Cheshire packs have a bit of a reputation for being "fast, furious and will jump anything and everything".  For some reason I thought the Forest were the faster pack and the Farmers a bit more sedate.  Be grateful if anyone can set me right?! 

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The Cheshire Hunt and the Cheshire Forest are the foxhound packs in Cheshire.  Cheshire Farmers are a drag pack.
You're right in your assumptions too as the Cheshire's have some Field Masters that go like S**t off a shovel so can be hard to follow especially if you don't jump.  The Cheshires have more country to go at without being hemmed in by so many major roads  as much as the C Forest which are criss-crossed with big roads.


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## MurphysMinder (16 August 2011)

cptrayes said:



			Darn, it is Callwood I meant, not Brown. I don't have a clue where that came from  !!
		
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Slightly off topic but Andrew Callwoods dad used to take my friends and I to horse shows back in the 60s, up to 10 ponies stuffed in the back of a lorry and us kids sitting up on the luton.  Those were the days before health & safety existed, and we had some wonderful times.  Harold looked after us all,parents used to wave us off in the morning and wouldn't see us again till the evening.


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## chestnut cob (18 August 2011)

tootsietoo said:



			Chestnut Cob, if you are in North Shrops, why not go out with the Cheshire?  It will take you ages to drive up to Cheshire Forest or Cheshire Farmers!  The Cheshire country stretches from just north of Whitchurch up to Delamere Forest and there are a lot of meets in the southern part of the country.
		
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I won't be in North Shrops after this weekend, am moving on Saturday and will be by J12 of the M6 so it's easy enough for me to get around.

I'm considering the Farmers because I'm hoping that there *should* be less roadwork with a drag pack.  I am probably wrong in this though.

Maesfen is right - I need someone fairly easy to follow.  My horse doesn't jump anymore due to arthritis.  I might pop him over the odd little thing if the ground is good/soft but I don't want to *have* to jump and be going too fast to find a way around.  CPTrayes described the Farmers as being more suitable for someone new to hunting (IIRC?) so although they're a bit of a drive away, they could be what I'm looking for.  I will call them for a chat.

That all said, I'll be right in the middle of the Albrighton's country once I've moved so any views/experiences of those would be welcome


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## whiteclover (20 August 2011)

Who is the secretary for the cheshire farmers? Thanks


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## racingdemon (21 August 2011)

chestnut cob said:



			That all said, I'll be right in the middle of the Albrighton's country once I've moved so any views/experiences of those would be welcome 

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although i've never hunted with the Albrighton, it's supposed to be very nice & freindly & has a good reputaion for being child freindly (so you can go around things & most fences are quite low) 

thats just what people I hunt with have told me though, (I Hunt with the North Staffs)


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## chestnut cob (22 August 2011)

racingdemon said:



			although i've never hunted with the Albrighton, it's supposed to be very nice & freindly & has a good reputaion for being child freindly (so you can go around things & most fences are quite low) 

thats just what people I hunt with have told me though, (I Hunt with the North Staffs)
		
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Thanks RD.  I've just moved to a yard that's right in the middle of Albrighton country and I hacked over some of the bridleways through the land they hunt yesterday so got to have a look at hunt jumps... even my horse who is supposedly retired from jumping could pop over those if the ground was good without any ill effects 

I'm not brave enough for the North Staffs, you're too fast for me!


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## smudge99 (24 August 2011)

My daughter has hunted with the AH and she has had a great time, they all made her feel very welcome. I also have some friends who were first timers go on one of the last meets of the season, one on an aged mare the other on a ex racer and they were both well looked after and had a great time so I would say give them a go.

Liz


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## whiteclover (30 August 2011)

Has anyone used Kentonwood hirelings? I might be leaving it a bit late for the first meet but anyway.


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