# Beginner vs novice etc



## Luclila (23 March 2022)

Hi, more of a general question but have been sitting on it for a while and different people say different things: 
- how would you describe a beginner vs a novice vs intermediate vs advanced and how far along would you expect to be after 1 year of riding?


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## Fools Motto (23 March 2022)

Remember that horsemanship starts long before you get in the saddle.
Depends on how often you ride, if once a week that is only 52 times, probably for an hour at best which wouldn't equate to being experienced - that takes years, and even then you're always learning and getting better!


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## honetpot (23 March 2022)

Riding is complicated because unlike most sports skills you have to lean to control your body, while trying to influence an animal who may or may not understand what you are asking for to comply. You could also master the physical skill, but have no understanding how the horse sees and interprets its environment which is a huge part of keeping the partnership safe.
  I would say you become a novice when the commands you give are consistent at all paces, and the horse knows what you are asking, and should be able to comply if it is well-trained. You are getting beyond a novice when you spot a problem or action that needs doing, before it happens and apply the aids to prevent or influence the horse, before that something happens, or prepare for a movement, and the action is effective.


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## EllenJay (23 March 2022)

I’ve been riding for over 50 years, and still consider myself a novice.  There is so much I still don’t know, which is an advance, as after a year I thought I knew everything!


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## spacefaer (23 March 2022)

Do you mean within riding school guidelines?
Depends on natural talent, time spent in the saddle, the variety of riding undertaken - hacking vs schoolwork for instance. Whether every time you ride is in a 45 min lesson under instruction, or a 4 hour hack around lanes or across varied terrain.
Improvement only comes with experience and that is normally time and opportunity dependent.
After a year, I'd reckon an average rider would be classed as a novice.


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## Luclila (23 March 2022)

Would you say a novice is walk, trot, canter? Confident in all or in most of the 3 paces? Jumping?


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## Gloi (23 March 2022)

Luclila said:



			Would you say a novice is walk, trot, canter? Confident in all or in most of the 3 paces? Jumping?
		
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After a year I would expect a reasonable riding school rider to do those on a quiet school horse.


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## Meowy Catkin (23 March 2022)

IMO, a rider only transitions from novice to intermediate when they can improve the horse that they are riding.

There are some horses that know their job and can essentially make a novice rider look good especially if that rider had good balance, an independent seat and a good position. They might be able to jump decent sized fences and do a low level dressage test with that horse. They might not realise however that they are still to a certain degree being a 'passenger' and relying on the horse to help them out.

Put the same rider on a green, unschooled horse and it is different. 

The rider that can train that sort of green horse well (which is an important distinction as bad training doesn't count) and actively improve the horse is a big step up in terms of skill.


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## Luclila (23 March 2022)

Agreed. Some more background info:
- I changed riding school recently and have so far had 6 lessons (aswell as others at my previous one) and find I ride better there. In those 6 lessons my canters feel better and I’ve started to jump again (long break after having to relocate due to riding with a friend).I’ve ridden 3 horses there 1 forward school horse and 2 horses which were on a working livery. At my other place I’ve had some good lessons in canter on 1/2 horses but I find they are slower paced. We do most of the lesson in trot and 2-6 short to medium canters.


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## Keith_Beef (23 March 2022)

I've been riding regularly since 2013 for a one hour lesson each week (barring school holidays, so probably around 37 lessons per calendar year) plus extras here and there plus the occasional trip of between a half day to a week long, on a variety of horses and I still consider myself a novice.

My regular instructor gives me what he considers "challenging" horses... Some of them are just a bit lazy and need a rider who won't accept that behaviour. One is difficult to tack up and needs a mix of patience and firmness until he's got a head collar on and then he's just fine.

Others... well... my instructor tells me he gives me those horses because I'm not scared of anything and I get straight back on...


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## Widgeon (30 March 2022)

Keith_Beef said:



			Others... well... my instructor tells me he gives me those horses because I'm not scared of anything and I get straight back on...
		
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Without wanting to sound too gung-ho about it this is a valuable skill.....and one that I do not have. I would be a pretty decent rider if I was braver. But I'm not...so I'm not. I'm sure it's part of the reason why you learn so much faster as a kid!


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## Gloi (30 March 2022)

Keith_Beef said:



			Others... well... my instructor tells me he gives me those horses because I'm not scared of anything and I get straight back on...
		
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This mindset often lasts until the first trip to A&E


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## Red-1 (30 March 2022)

Keith_Beef said:



			Others... well... my instructor tells me he gives me those horses because I'm not scared of anything and I get straight back on...
		
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This would worry me.

I am less brave now, but even in my gung ho youth I would need to rationalise why I fell, what happened before what happened, happened (!) and how I was going to prevent it from happening again!

A fall from a horse can be life changing and although I would get back on, it was not without an uprated plan of action. It is the not beings scared that is a red flag as well as getting straight back on, if there is no new plan.


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## Smoky 2022 (30 March 2022)

Everyone opinion on this can be very different.

I would consider a novice someone who can walk,trot and canter and jump small fance and has been riding for over a year.

intermediate someone has the ability to ride tricky horses and green horses. In my opinion someone who can improve a horse and can jump a decent sized jump .

Advance is a pro rider in my opinion or someone who is doing competitions at a high level.

also being fearless isn’t a good thing I was like that when I was a teenager.  I ended up with bad wrist break that has caused me issues.


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## Widgeon (30 March 2022)

Gloi said:



			This mindset often lasts until the first trip to A&E
		
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Yes but there's a difference between being fearless (which is daft) and being able to pick yourself up and get back on without overthinking it, which I think is what Keith was getting at. Based on Keith's other posts case he has an instructor who he appears to trust not to overface him, so he can get back on without constantly worrying about might have happened. That's a good thing. I didn't read it as him meaning he wasn't scared of literally any horse, ever (that would be foolish). 
By contrast, I know people who are so frightened by the mere idea of falling off that they won't ever go any faster than a trot - and their horses play up to that.


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## milliepops (30 March 2022)

I can see both sides of what Keith says, on the one hand, if he falls off what is essentially a "safe" horse (as even if it's at the more awkward end of the scale it's a RS horse rather than a totally unknown quantity) then it's a bit different to a difficult ride that is lawn darting its rider for unspecified reasons.  e.g. might just be down to communication failure, rider loss of balance or something like that

I'm NOT OK with falling off, i would say i'm a reasonably sticky rider, with good balance and quite experienced but I really really hate falling off and would more than likely reflect on it like red, unless it was a stupid thing like the girth breaking   but then the horses i ride are generally odd bods prone to dodgy moments!


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## Keith_Beef (30 March 2022)

Widgeon said:



			Yes but there's a difference between being fearless (which is daft) and being able to pick yourself up and get back on without overthinking it, which I think is what Keith was getting at. Based on Keith's other posts case he has an instructor who he appears to trust not to overface him, so he can get back on without constantly worrying about might have happened. That's a good thing. I didn't read it as him meaning he wasn't scared of literally any horse, ever (that would be foolish).
By contrast, I know people who are so frightened by the mere idea of falling off that they won't ever go any faster than a trot - and their horses play up to that.
		
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This is what I intended. When my instructor says that I'm not scared of anything, what he really means is that I'm not scared of the horses themselves, not scared of breaking into a sweat or getting a cramp, and I trust him to not set us challenges that are ridiculously beyond us. Of course he needs to push us to do things we've never done before, otherwise wee'd never learn anything new.

There are times when, after a fall, I will tell my instructor that I'm getting back on, but not going to repeat the exercise. The instructor will also typically ask me why I fell, and if I don't have a good idea why, but he does, then he'll explain it to me.

I haven't had that instructor since about October; his boss reorganised who would teach which days and it's now two women who teach Sunday's classes on alternate weeks, but these two are similar in their approach to falls. If a rider feels well enough to get back on, so much the better. But there's no pressure to do the exercise again if we don't feel up to it.



milliepops said:



			I can see both sides of what Keith says, on the one hand, if he falls off what is essentially a "safe" horse (as even if it's at the more awkward end of the scale it's a RS horse rather than a totally unknown quantity) then it's a bit different to a difficult ride that is lawn darting its rider for unspecified reasons.  e.g. might just be down to communication failure, rider loss of balance or something like that

I'm NOT OK with falling off, i would say i'm a reasonably sticky rider, with good balance and quite experienced but I really really hate falling off and would more than likely reflect on it like red, unless it was a stupid thing like the girth breaking   but then the horses i ride are generally odd bods prone to dodgy moments!
		
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An example of communication failure is one particular horse who dropped his right shoulder and gave a little buck when I asked for a transition from trot to canter. The first time, I fell, but thought that he had stumbled and I'd lost my balance. I got back on and went round again and asked for the same transition in the same spot and the same thing happened but this time I was half expecting it and stayed in the saddle. I kept the trot for a few more strides and after the corner I asked for the canter again and this time he did what I asked.

My instructor that day didn't see it happening (group lesson, his eyes were elsewhere when it happened), but talking to a different instructor I learnt that this particular horse does not tolerate unclear instructions and regularly dumps people for giving them.

As I've improved, I've found that I can ride this horse with far fewer "stumbles" than in the past. But he's definitely not a horse for an absolute beginner; in addition to  not tolerating unclear instructions, he also pretends to be slow and lazy. I found that by carrying a long (dressage?) whip, rather than a crop, I barely have to use it. I touch his flank once, behind my leg, the first time he is slow, and after that I just move the hand holding the whip forward, so that he sees it from the corner of his eye, and he wakes up and goes forward.


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## Winters100 (28 April 2022)

Red-1 said:



			This would worry me.

I am less brave now, but even in my gung ho youth I would need to rationalise why I fell, what happened before what happened, happened (!) and how I was going to prevent it from happening again!

A fall from a horse can be life changing and although I would get back on, it was not without an uprated plan of action. It is the not beings scared that is a red flag as well as getting straight back on, if there is no new plan.
		
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I also find it a very strange attitude from a riding school.  I have a few different people who I let ride mine from time to time simply because riding 3 every day is time consuming, but I would never offer a ride to someone who I thought likely to have a fall.  I can also imagine that the riding school would be in a difficult position if there were ever a serious accident with this client. Saying that they had given the client a horse which they knew that the client did not have the skills for, but that they did it anyway because this client would not make a fuss and would get back on would seem to me to be an admission of liability.


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## BeansNsausages (28 April 2022)

I would say that you're a beginner until you can walk, trot and canter a horse in a balanced fashion while being able to direct the horse accordingly. 

Novice to me can mean too many things to really put into words easily. For instance, I have been riding for about twenty years, however i have always struggled with jumping; I cant see a stride, my position over a fence isnt great and I ride too defensively. As far as jumping goes, I am a novice. I am no good at influencing the horse over a fence, I cant improve a horse with his jumping, I am very much a passenger. 

Do I consider myself a novice in general? No.

Am I a novice under certain circumstances or paired with a horse whose buttons i have never been taught to press? Absolutely.


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