# For those of you who feed Complete 365...



## TT55 (12 March 2014)

... how long did it take for you to notice a difference? Did you notice a difference? Have read lots of glowing reviews!

Started to feed this about 3 weeks ago to give my mare some extra vits and mins and hopefully gain a bit of weight (she was doing ok on just haylage but has started to look a bit ribby). They claim that you should start to see a difference after 2 weeks so was wondering if i should stick with it or add something else?

FYI she is just on double dose 365 complete, garlic and Graze On. Plus hay/haylage


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## minigal (14 March 2014)

Any oil?


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## TT55 (14 March 2014)

Not currently feeding oil, no...


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## Jnhuk (15 March 2014)

I researched this recently as was wondering about it until I read this thread 

http://www.enlightenedequitation.com/ee/forums/index.php?topic=23931.0


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## TT55 (15 March 2014)

Jnhuk said:



			I researched this recently as was wondering about it until I read this thread 

http://www.enlightenedequitation.com/ee/forums/index.php?topic=23931.0

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Interesting... I probably wouldn't have bought it if i'd seen that! Think i will reduce the amount I am feeding and wont get it again when it is gone.

My question now is though, will a different balancer alone be enough to add condition or should i feed balancer plus something like micronised linseed?


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## TGM (15 March 2014)

TT55 said:



			Interesting... I probably wouldn't have bought it if i'd seen that! Think i will reduce the amount I am feeding and wont get it again when it is gone.

My question now is though, will a different balancer alone be enough to add condition or should i feed balancer plus something like micronised linseed?
		
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To answer that question, you have to understand how balancers are meant to work.  The idea is that they supply vitamins, minerals and protein which may be missing from a hay only diet, plus a probiotic yeast.  The idea of the probiotic yeast is that it creates the ideal conditions in the gut for the digestion of fibre, so the horse gets the most it can out of the fibre in its diet, so in this respect it can help improve condition. However, although most pelleted balancers contain a reasonable amount of calories per kg, most are designed to be fed in small amounts so won't add a huge amount of calories to the diet.  So although it allows the horse to make the most of the food it is getting, if the feed intake is still below what the horse is expending in body maintenance and exercise then the horse still won't put on weight, and additional feedstuffs will be required.  Is the horse already getting as much hay/haylage as it can eat?


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## TT55 (15 March 2014)

Thank you, that is very helpful!

Yes, horse gets as much haylage/hay as she can eat (this is provided and given by the staff at my yard, sometimes they give haylage sometimes they give hay, sometimes both). She was going well on this until the last month or two when i have notice her get a bit ribby. Need to be careful what i feed her as she is stabled and can get quite excitable when ridden(even on hay/haylage). She currently isn't in much work due to having folliculitis in her saddle area, but goes on the horse walker for an hour most days and occasionally gets lunged or turned out for a hoon in the arena. I am also feeding her Graze On with the complete 365, garlic (to mask antibiotics) and NAF D-Tox (to try and help her skin condition). She has a salt lick in her stable and gets grazed in hand most days for about half an hour. Hopefully i will be able to start turning her out for a few hours now its warmer (she cant wear a rug in the field and is clipped)

I want to keep it simple, so was thinking micronised linseed with the Graze On and when i run out of the Complete 365, switch to a different balancer? Will this be sufficient? 

Feed is provided in my livery option, but they only seem to have a type of pasture mix and speedibeet but my horse isn't too keen on the speedibeet and im not too sure about the pasture mix as I'm concerned it may be too high in sugar/starch.


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## TGM (15 March 2014)

Antibiotic treatment can interfere with the good bacteria in the gut, so you may find she won't really improve until the treatment has finished and the gut flora have re-established.


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## Goldenstar (15 March 2014)

365 complete won't help your horse gain weight you need to increase calorie intake to do that .


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## HappyHooves (15 March 2014)

Goldenstar said:



			365 complete won't help your horse gain weight you need to increase calorie intake to do that .
		
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Exactly! A balancer, as others have said, is to supply what is possibly missing in other feeds or hay,in terms of vits and mins - it doesn't give calories. 365 is however one of the best min and vit supplements I have found - did research on vet sites to establish what mins and vits were needed, in what amounts and, most importantly, in what compound they should be fed to get the active ingredient to the horse. Chelated minerals are best, uptake of magnesium will be totally different , for example, if you give it as mag oxide, or sulphate. So for me, this is the best you can currently get and the addition of a pre and post-biotic helps digestion generally. Please don't make a product sound bad just because you have chosen the wrong product for the job you need.


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## amandap (15 March 2014)

HappyHooves said:



			Exactly! A balancer, as others have said, is to supply what is possibly missing in other feeds or hay,in terms of vits and mins - it doesn't give calories. 365 is however one of the best min and vit supplements I have found - did research on vet sites to establish what mins and vits were needed, in what amounts and, most importantly, in what compound they should be fed to get the active ingredient to the horse. Chelated minerals are best, uptake of magnesium will be totally different , for example, if you give it as mag oxide, or sulphate. So for me, this is the best you can currently get and the addition of a pre and post-biotic helps digestion generally. Please don't make a product sound bad just because you have chosen the wrong product for the job you need.
		
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Have you read the link above, there are posts from a very experienced nutritionist. The debate about which form of mineral is best goes on. The only way to get close to appropriate mineral supplementation is to get all forages tested and take into account other feeds. Obviously this is expensive but feeding a high spec balancer is a good second choice, minerals are not cheap so often (not always) price reflects specification.


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## skint1 (15 March 2014)

I feed this to my Tb mare, friend gives it to hers too, didn't do it for weight gain, just to ensure they were getting the right balance of stuff. I also use their Premierflex Plus for 2 of mine who are arthritic but have just started on Turmeric with a view to switching off from the Premierflex if there is an improvement, too early to tell at the moment

I was very upset to read the link to the posts on EE and am now reviewing the situation with the 365, I don't like being misled


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## amandap (15 March 2014)

skint1 said:



			I feed this to my Tb mare, friend gives it to hers too, didn't do it for weight gain, just to ensure they were getting the right balance of stuff. I also use their Premierflex Plus for 2 of mine who are arthritic but have just started on Turmeric with a view to switching off from the Premierflex if there is an improvement, too early to tell at the moment

I was very upset to read the link to the posts on EE and am now reviewing the situation with the 365, I don't like being misled 

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It can be a minefield especially if like me you're not good at maths!
I've taken the tack of learning the basics for myself (free online nutrition course etc.) and keep it simple. Once you have a basic understanding about horse digestion and needs it gets much easier to ignore the marketing.


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## TT55 (15 March 2014)

HappyHooves said:



			Please don't make a product sound bad just because you have chosen the wrong product for the job you need.
		
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I'm not intentionally trying to make the product sound bad, but they do claim the product puts weight on horses!

From the Equine Answers website: "The very best you can buy to help put weight on a horse rapidly. Used at double the initial amount you will see the difference in 2 weeks and in a month your horse should be looking like a different animal. Much stronger than Blue Chip, Top Spec, conditioning cubes etc."

A big claim to make...! 

I started my horse on micronised linseed today. Her antibiotics finish on Monday so hopefully I will see an improvement in her weight.


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## skint1 (15 March 2014)

amandap said:



			It can be a minefield especially if like me you're not good at maths!
I've taken the tack of learning the basics for myself (free online nutrition course etc.) and keep it simple. Once you have a basic understanding about horse digestion and needs it gets much easier to ignore the marketing.
		
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I think I shall look into a free online nutrition course, I'd like to ensure I'm doing the right thing for them. Well, with the arthritics it's different, I want them to be comfortable as poss for as long as poss


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## thatsmygirl (15 March 2014)

I can't read the link, what did it say out of interest? 
I feed equimins advance complete and very happy with the product which is backed up  by a full money back guarantee.


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## Tiddlypom (15 March 2014)

TT55 said:



			Yes, horse gets as much haylage/hay as she can eat (this is provided and given by the staff at my yard, sometimes they give haylage sometimes they give hay, sometimes both).
		
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Why do the staff sometimes give her hay and sometimes give her haylage? Is there a pattern to it?


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## TT55 (15 March 2014)

Tiddlypom said:



			Why do the staff sometimes give her hay and sometimes give her haylage? Is there a pattern to it?
		
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I haven't actually noticed a pattern and always wondered but never asked! I think it is just what is available to them at the time...


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## TT55 (15 March 2014)

thatsmygirl said:



			I can't read the link, what did it say out of interest? 
I feed equimins advance complete and very happy with the product which is backed up  by a full money back guarantee.
		
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It basically says that Complete 365 looks like there are more grams per kg in it, because you only feed a tiny fraction of the amount each day:

"Lets look and zinc and Vitamin E for instance, two good benchmarks, and compare it to TopSpec. 

1kg of 365 is a 50 day supply they say, so that's 1/50th of a kilo daily dose ie. 20g a day (we will assume that's for a 500kg horse and compare it to 500g balancer).

So 365 provides 260iu Vitamin E per day, compared to TopSpec providing 1250iu per day.
365 provides  40mg zinc per day whereas TopSpec provides 250mg."

It also says that Complete 365 contains Pro-biotics which are not good for hind gut acidity.


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## Tiddlypom (15 March 2014)

Good practice would be to stick to a consistent feed program, and to make any changes slowly. Chopping and changing between hay and haylage is poor practice. It won't help your mare at all. She may be fine on either of them, but not if she is constantly being swapped between the two. It will be upsetting to her digestive system.


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