# Terrible biased reporting on Olympic Equestrian events.



## Honeylight (13 August 2016)

Is anyone else sick of the ignorance, sniping and nastiness by reporters on the equestrian events, particularly dressage?
The Guardian and the Telegraph have both belittled equestrian sport, The Guardian has been especially nasty turning dressage into a class issue. They didn't even publish the fact Britain had won silver until people started posting why was it missing on the forum. No mention of Fiona's dressage test with an eye patch and why that was, if a cyclist as much as sneezes it's a headline.
This attitude by the press (not even the gutter press but supposed quality papers) is not good for the future of equestrian sport. It is being made into a class issue, an attitude by journalists and commentators on newspaper forums that all people who ride are rich people who vote Tory.
It must be so depressing for those who work so hard for their sport. It's making me angry as I know the comments about horses and social class are not necessarily correct. Also they seem to think it isn't a sport and it is easier than track and field events and cycling.


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## mle22 (13 August 2016)

Well it's not exactly an accessible sport for working class kids to take up is it!


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## WandaMare (13 August 2016)

Honeylight I haven't read the articles but I agree with you. The equestrian events always seem to get minimal coverage and when it is mentioned it is not very positive. Its such a shame because other successful horsey countries like Aus and NZ are proud of their equestrian teams, they don't have the same class prejudice as we do here.

Saying that I thought the dressage team came over really well on the BBC last night, Carl and Charlotte both came over as very down to earth and likeable which I thought was good for the sport and it was nice to see Clare Balding speak to them with her genuine enthusiasm for anything horsey.

Riding isn't the only expensive sport in the Olympics, sailing is expensive and yet their coverage is much less biased.


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## millikins (13 August 2016)

And many of the rowers have very plummy accents but that apparently is fine.


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## TheOldTrout (13 August 2016)

The Guardian turns pretty much anything into a class issue! I agree though, the reporting on equestrian events is not just minimal but often very ignorant - doesn't challenge the large number of people who still think riders 'just sit on horses' .
There was a comment on one of the Guardian's blogs on the London Olympics that I always remember because it amused me - something like 'Have all these equestrian people broken their necks in falls yet carried on riding? Are they all nuts??'


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## Cortez (13 August 2016)

I think it all stems from the "toffs on horses" stereotype. Sailing is a very expensive sport, and yes toffs do that too , but it doesn't seem to suffer from the same prejudices. ALL the sports which require equipment (and horses are, essentially, the same thing) are extremely expensive at this level, and anyone who wishes to participate will have to dedicate themselves to training full time which is why sponsorship is routine. The general public are never going to understand what it takes to ride, let alone compete in equestrian sport at the top, it's just too far removed from most people's daily experience.

And yes, it is elitist.


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## chillipup (13 August 2016)

It can't possibly help our Olympic equestrians when Go Compare are running another of their really dreadful commercials on TV at this time. This one depicting a pair of dressage riders in top hats and tails, sat on their horses talking in plummy, grossly affected voices. Of course the opera singing, fat barsteward, with the twirly moustache, whilst similarly attired, rocks up on another horse singing the annoying jingle at the end


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## Goldenstar (13 August 2016)

Many sports are very very expensive .
Those bikes don't come cheap .


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## teapot (13 August 2016)

Have you got a link to the Telegraph articles? Am surprised as they tend to have the best coverage for the sport.


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## stencilface (13 August 2016)

Rowing is always well covered and popular. It's a prime toff sport and expensive too. My cousin just missed out on going this year.


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## honetpot (13 August 2016)

BBC Breakfast this morning. About 5 minutes of coverage just before it finished when they spent all morning going over everything else.
  Have to say the dressage elite do shoot themselves in the foot though. The man being interviewed and asked to explain the movements had no communication skill, used terms like forehand and had as much charisma as my back door. They really need someone who is good at PR to make stories available and do interviews.


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## Cortez (13 August 2016)

honetpot said:



			BBC Breakfast this morning. About 5 minutes of coverage just before it finished when they spent all morning going over everything else.
  Have to say the dressage elite do shoot themselves in the foot though. The man being interviewed and asked to explain the movements had no communication skill, used terms like forehand and had as much charisma as my back door. They really need someone who is good at PR to make stories available and do interviews.
		
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I don't honestly think you can make dressage "available" to the average guy on the street though, any more than you can opera or ballet or other allegedly highbrow pursuits. You're either an aficionado (defined as someone who knows what "aficionado" means...) or you're not. The best they've come up with is "horse dancing", which isn't very helpful.


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## honetpot (13 August 2016)

Jilly Cooper has made a fair bit of money making riding sexy, not every reader would have been horsey. You have got women, beautiful animals and striving against adversity, think more tabloid and forget about half pass. At the moment its so dearie and earnest.


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## Fellewell (13 August 2016)

I think having the olympics in Rio was always going to highlight class issues. To the people in the favelas all those involved are elitist. The issue of funding and elitism was bound to come up when the locals can't even afford a ticket.

As for the 'average guy' mentioned above; if you understand a decent seat and an obedient horse you will appreciate the sports.


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## HashRouge (13 August 2016)

I think it doesn't help that dressage is more or less impossible to understand for the average viewer. At least cycling and rowing are pretty simple - first one over the line wins! Personally I wouldn't mind if dressage was dropped from the Olympics if it meant we could keep the eventing and SJ *hides behind sofa*


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## stormox (13 August 2016)

I think in any sport,not just dressage, there are technical terms used that the average person doesnt understand. For example, I just turned on the TV and the commentator (in cycling) was talking about the 'Kieran Race'... whoever in the street has heard of that? or a 'Deasha Harai' in judo?


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## numptynoelle (13 August 2016)

Another one who would be interested in any links people could share - 'proper' news articles, rather than opinion pieces/blog-style articles, if you see what I mean. I've gone through the Telegraph website and haven't found much, but I may not be searching correctly!


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## Lexi_ (13 August 2016)

HashRouge said:



			I think it doesn't help that dressage is more or less impossible to understand for the average viewer. At least cycling and rowing are pretty simple - first one over the line wins! Personally I wouldn't mind if dressage was dropped from the Olympics if it meant we could keep the eventing and SJ *hides behind sofa*
		
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Haha I'd pick eventing and dressage over SJ but we'll have to agree to disagree there! 

I find it absolutely lovely how people have taken to the 'dancing horses' - they don't seem to care that they don't know the technicalities of it, they're just enjoying it 

I had a brilliant Whatsapp conversation with some of my non-horsey pals last night about the 'prancey sideways bit' and the 'skipping bit'  Isn't that the beauty of the Olympics? You can be enthralled by something you know nothing about?


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## Lexi_ (13 August 2016)

stormox said:



			I think in any sport,not just dressage, there are technical terms used that the average person doesnt understand. For example, I just turned on the TV and the commentator (in cycling) was talking about the 'Kieran Race'... whoever in the street has heard of that? or a 'Deasha Harai' in judo?
		
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They showed a slowmo replay of an ippon in the judo, complete with explanation of what it was and I still couldn't distinguish it from all the other rolling round on the mat they'd been doing in the rest of the round! I think commentary can help sell a sport to the casual viewer but ultimately it's got to be interesting enough to watch and the equestrian sports all have that factor for me, even if the terminology doesn't make sense to the casual viewer. Peter Storr was great though - I think he really found a great balance between explaining the basics and still making it interesting for the hardcore fans.


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## Slightlyconfused (13 August 2016)

Lexi_ said:



			Haha I'd pick eventing and dressage over SJ but we'll have to agree to disagree there! 

I find it absolutely lovely how people have taken to the 'dancing horses' - they don't seem to care that they don't know the technicalities of it, they're just enjoying it 

I had a brilliant Whatsapp conversation with some of my non-horsey pals last night about the 'prancey sideways bit' and the 'skipping bit'  Isn't that the beauty of the Olympics? You can be enthralled by something you know nothing about?
		
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First time mum saw flying changes she went "I didn't know horses could skip!" &#128514;&#128514;&#128514;


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## abbijay (13 August 2016)

Slightlyconfused said:



			First time mum saw flying changes she went "I didn't know horses could skip!" &#55357;&#56834;&#55357;&#56834;&#55357;&#56834;
		
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I have been watching a lot of the dressage with my 3 year old twins and it's really helped me to use basic language to explain dressage; it is possible and if the commentators could just get over it I think a lot more people would be on board. We've had the trotting on the spot, the flicky toes bit, the skipping, leg crossing,  spinning around and backwards. I got very strange looks explaining this to them while watching the PSG tests at regionals but they're more interested now!
We don't sell our sports in a sufficiently accessible way. I was quite impressed with the text commentary on h&h by emile faurey, he come across really well.


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## Honey08 (13 August 2016)

Lexi_ said:



			Haha I'd pick eventing and dressage over SJ but we'll have to agree to disagree there! 

I find it absolutely lovely how people have taken to the 'dancing horses' - they don't seem to care that they don't know the technicalities of it, they're just enjoying it 

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This is pretty much my view too.  I remember a lot of non horsey friends really enjoying the freestyle to music last time in London.  Much more than watching the Xc (a lot of non horsey people see it as cruel and don't like seeing horses fall).  Mary King and her sunny interviews won a lot of my non horsey friends over last time too.


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## SO1 (13 August 2016)

An outsider is very likely to think it is an elitist sport, I expect many of those journalists writing the articles have never even touched a horse let alone ridden one.

Most of the competitors in equine sports come from the rich western countries, the cost of buying and keeping a top competition horse and flying it to international competitions must be a lot more than any other sport apart from perhaps sailing. I can totally see why someone who has no experience of the sport would think it is a sport for rich white people. 

The stereotype of riders/horse owner being "tory voting toffs" is not without some truth. Most yards I have been on them have not been full of socialists or those who have grown up on council estates. 

Even though I love riding I do think the equine sports perhaps are not so exciting to watch for people that are not enthusiasts as some other sports. I have enjoyed watching the cycling, the fencing, the gymnastics and diving and don't participate or have knowledge in any of these sports. With dressage is can seem to take a long time to work out who has won and it is not a race or a fight or two teams playing against each other so I can see why some people might find it boring and why there is not that much coverage.


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## teapot (13 August 2016)

The New Yorker shows it can be done though - their recent article about Charlotte is fantastic and hits the right level whether you know what a horse is or you don't.

ETS: I watched a bit of the dressage yesterday to see how the team got on and it does nothing for me as a spectator sport and I vaguely understand what they're doing.


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## pepsimaxrock (13 August 2016)

To get to Olympic level in any sport costs money.


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## case895 (13 August 2016)

My wife and I are watching the track cycling and I have had to explain the keirin and the sprint to her. I'm just glad they don't do Madison, or devil take the hindmost in the Olympics!

The Mash referred to dressing gown wrestling and falling into a swimming pool this week.


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## teapot (13 August 2016)

Explaining the keirin is far easier than explaining what one time changes are though! Dressage is up there with fencing and judo for having to really understand what's going on.


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## tristar (13 August 2016)

to appreciate good dressage takes a person with an eye for art, at its best it is equestrian art, it rises above sheer sport to another realm, it is a moment in time that captures something beautiful, and involves opening a portal to a place where those that cannot see or understand what is happening are hardly likely to have a good word to say, or maybe they are just plain too thick, they stay down there in a dark place while the horse and rider go to another place that very few can, they should stop embarrassing themselves.


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## ycbm (13 August 2016)

I don't get this idea that sailing is as expensive as the equestrian sports?. It costs about ten grand to ship a live horse that far. I'll bet you can ship a dinghy for a fraction of that. And you don't have to have a team of grooms, vets, physios, farriers,  and a ton of food to keep the dinghy going. I can't believe it costs a fraction of the money to provide a suitable sailing course as it does to build the equestrian facilities, either.

In sailing, they sail boats of the same class in the same race. So it is the best sailor who wins, not the best boat.  That means that the problem with dressage, where very big money buys a better horse, doesn't exist to anything like the same extent in any other sport in the Olympics.For me, it's an extremely elitist sport at the top end, which has far too much money spent to include it for far too few countries to have any chance of a medal.


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## Lexi_ (13 August 2016)

tristar said:



			to appreciate good dressage takes a person with an eye for art, at its best it is equestrian art, it rises above sheer sport to another realm, it is a moment in time that captures something beautiful, and involves opening a portal to a place where those that cannot see or understand what is happening are hardly likely to have a good word to say, or maybe they are just plain too thick, they stay down there in a dark place while the horse and rider go to another place that very few can, they should stop embarrassing themselves.
		
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Admittedly I've had a bottle of wine but I'm not following your point here... Who should stop embarrassing themselves? The people who don't understand the intricacies of dressage? If that's what you mean, I find that point of view completely ridiculous. People can be entirely capable of enjoying something without understanding all possible nuances. I don't think making equestrian sports out to be any more elitist than they already are really helps matters! If people like watching the dancing horses (or the jumping horses or the running horses) then that's great IMO.


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## teapot (13 August 2016)

I love the idea of a laser refusing to get in the water and ruining someone's dreams. In same vein, whilst rowing skulls arn't cheap, as Steve Redgrave said you don't need one to turn up at your local rowing club to learn to row, unlike pony club...


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## spookypony (14 August 2016)

Cortez said:



			I don't honestly think you can make dressage "available" to the average guy on the street though, any more than you can opera or ballet or other allegedly highbrow pursuits. You're either an aficionado (defined as someone who knows what "aficionado" means...) or you're not. The best they've come up with is "horse dancing", which isn't very helpful.
		
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Let me at 'em. I can explain 15th-century music performance practice issues to a complete n00b in under 30 seconds, let alone opera: dressage? Piece of cake. 

No sport is cheap at Olympic level. At the very least, a sport requires _time_, to train and to compete, and time isn't cheap, in monetary terms and otherwise. This weird class thing you've got going on in the UK means that a lot of things (you list opera) are considered "elitist", which really aren't or shouldn't be. Considering that horses are actually far more accessible in the UK than in many other countries, I find this a bit bizarre!

I think a very important reason for keeping Equestrian in the Olympics, besides tradition, is that gender is irrelevant.


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## sasquatch (14 August 2016)

ycbm said:



			I don't get this idea that sailing is as expensive as the equestrian sports?. It costs about ten grand to ship a live horse that far. I'll bet you can ship a dinghy for a fraction of that. And you don't have to have a team of grooms, vets, physios, farriers,  and a ton of food to keep the dinghy going. I can't believe it costs a fraction of the money to provide a suitable sailing course as it does to build the equestrian facilities, either.

In sailing, they sail boats of the same class in the same race. So it is the best sailor who wins, not the best boat.  That means that the problem with dressage, where very big money buys a better horse, doesn't exist to anything like the same extent in any other sport in the Olympics.For me, it's an extremely elitist sport at the top end, which has far too much money spent to include it for far too few countries to have any chance of a medal.
		
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the only school I attended that held and hosted their own regatta was a private school. Every person involved either owned their boat, or hired/rented it. 

My brother sailed for a bit, but buying wetsuit, lifejacket etc all added up, as well as the cost of club membership, boat hire and the course he did. To continue to sail at higher levels, I can imagine it would be expensive in terms of insurance etc. and the cost of a boat be it to buy, or to hire. 

On the flip side, I also know people who ride competitively without owning a horse, but through their own hard work are now able to ride some good horses for free or the cost of their rider insurance. 

Is the transport funded by the rider/owner or is it paid for by the team/IOC?


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## alainax (14 August 2016)

Listening to the Olympic coverage on bbc radio this morning, I was furious. 

Over the past day or so I have heard at least 300 times the story of the "old lady" ( in their opinion) winning some skulls rowing thingy, her team mate just an aside... Sure it's a nice story, but give it a rest already!! 

I was just hoping for a glimmer of a mention of the dressage. Carl, Charlotte and the team are in my humble opinion excellent sports people, and truly an inspiration to many. Not just on how to be successful, but how it can be achieved through hard work, dedication and kindness. 

They said a short list of sports where team Gb won medals, dressage was wedged in with trampolining, then sneered at. I was shocked! I know most people don't take the time to understand it, but surely most people can appreciate its only achieved through utmost dedication of horse and rider, over many many years of training. 

Anyway, they then did pick on the dressage, only to go on and slag it. Saying it's not a sport, shouldn't be in the olypmics, it's human not horse Olympics. The "sport" commentator then went on to say the only real horse sport is racing... When asked if he watched the dressage he said no, and that why is it all about the rider and not the horse. The presenter helpfully tried to mention Valegro, by saying he was often described as a lovely "beast". After that I felt I was wrong to wish for some dressage coverage. 

To me it's a sport which surpasses so many. Sure running in a straight line is hard training, as is swimming, cycling, rowing etc. They all require skill and hard work. But I can't think of a single sport as technically challenging as dressage is. The most basic of priciples like getting a horse to work over his back- is impossible to many of even experienced riders, yet this is just one of the very first steps for a dressage horse. The level they achieve is outstanding. If only it could be appreciated.


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## teapot (14 August 2016)

sasquatch said:



			Is the transport funded by the rider/owner or is it paid for by the team/IOC?
		
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IOC pay for the travel of team horses, it's up to individual nations to pay for the reserve horse that now travels (they didn't travel for London or Beijing I don't think). Think it was the event horse owners association that stumped up the cash for Billy the Red to travel.



alainax said:



			To me it's a sport which surpasses so many. Sure running in a straight line is hard training, as is swimming, cycling, rowing etc. They all require skill and hard work. But I can't think of a single sport as technically challenging as dressage is. The most basic of priciples like getting a horse to work over his back- is impossible to many of even experienced riders, yet this is just one of the very first steps for a dressage horse. The level they achieve is outstanding. If only it could be appreciated.
		
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To play devil's advocate, unless you rode or understood horses, you wouldn't know what working a horse over its back means, let alone understand the level that they compete at. Dressage isn't accessible in that respect because to the untrained eye it's a guy in a top hat and tails going sideways on a horse and occasionally to music.  There are people who ride who don't necessarily understand the Olympic equestrian sports - I was chatting to someone on Monday before a fun dressage test who didn't know there were different levels of three day eventing. 

At least to the lay eye, eventing is a combination of 'move around an arena doing some sideways stuff and flicky leg stuff' before a round of fixed jumps in a certain time, then a round of knock down jumps in a certain time. It's an easy sport to understand and watch. Dressage? You can't say it's an easy sport to understand, especially not when you can't see scores immediately to get an idea of what's good or not.

I don't really understand diving or gymnastics but at least with live scoring you start to get an idea of what's good or not.


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## sasquatch (14 August 2016)

teapot said:



			IOC pay for the travel of team horses, it's up to individual nations to pay for the reserve horse that now travels (they didn't travel for London or Beijing I don't think). Think it was the event horse owners association that stumped up the cash for Billy the Red to travel.

I don't really understand diving or gymnastics but at least with live scoring you start to get an idea of what's good or not.
		
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Thank you teapot, I wasn't sure who paid for it but that makes sense  
So the cost of transporting the horse, unless you are the reserve, is pretty irrelevant then as it is not the rider/owner paying.

Tbf, I think you've addressed another problem there - the leaderboards etc have been crap for the equestrian events. 
I also notice on the commentary, they go on and on about the scores judges are giving for each movements, but surely if they had a pop-up graphic along the bottom it would work just as well? Say it comes up to say 'canter pirouette 7.4' or whatever for some of the 'bigger' movements like pirouettes, piaffe, passage, extended canter, lead changes etc.

I can't understand weightlifting at all, but I now know they have a snatch or a snap and a grab and reach or something similar. They had some lovely graphics with green and red arrows and an expert to speak about what it meant but all I can remember is that the guys all were very bow legged and I don't understand how the weights work and why they don't all lift the same weight per go and then just keep going that way.

I can't help but wonder if maybe new commentators would work? I know I have no problems when it comes to explaining dressage/jumping to people who don't know much (aka my gran who's horse experience comes down to 'oh what is the brown one doing', 'the white one had a stop are they eliminated?', 'do you have to put the pole back up?', 'why doesn't your horse dance like the ones on TV') but it's very hard to do as well. MT is unfortunately becoming an irritant this Olympics as he doesn't seem to really explain much. He's fine for the jumping and XC, but maybe for dressage we need someone else. 

Dressage is something a lot of people who aren't horsey enjoy as they want to see the famous dancing horses, but when you have someone talking over and not explaining why a horse has spooked/what passage or the other fancy words mean and how the scoring works, it's very confusing.


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## teapot (14 August 2016)

I think travel costs are a bit of a moot point in terms of whether a sport's expensive or not. The eventers also flew out BA business class, I doubt they were individually paying! 

The scoreboards have been bad, but that's an Olympic broadcaster issue, not a BBC one. Though if they can get the scores up for gymnastics and diving, why not show the scores of the various dressage judges? Then final marks and eventual percentage, it's not hard. As for commentary, I guess that comes down to cost and availability, and you need that balance of someone who knows what they're talking about and someone who can get the masses interested.

I went back and listened to the five live coverage of xc day. The mix of Chappers, Aggers and Tina worked really well. Some of the questions that Chappers asked Tina were fairly generic (how do you walk a course, do the horses come too, team orders, how do you approach a dangerous sport, what do you do if you have a problem on course etc) but if you had no idea what eventing was about, those questions and Tina's accessible and informed answers, plus Aggers doing the generic x is clear over the y jump really brought the sport alive, which for radio was fantastic. 

I've not listened to any of the radio coverage of the dressage, but the tv definitely needs someone better than MT. Peter Storr's good but he's not the most inspiring to listen to.


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## ycbm (14 August 2016)

In any other sport at the Olympics, getting to the Olympics is a logical progression from being a talented youngster. This is not true of top level equestrian sport. You can be a seriously good rider, but until you are either accidentally or deliberately partnered with a seriously good horse, you will not progress. Then that horse has to stay sound and win, or you must have replacements available, or you will not progress. It doesn't matter how much talent you have, in the end progression to top level in equestrian sports is more about luck than talent. Yes, you have to have talent, but for everyone who has it there are hundreds more who will never get the chance to show that they have it.

I know we are all dedicated horse lovers on this forum, and I think it's blinding people to the obvious, (to me), truth that at top level equestrian sport is seriously elitist, and of very little interest to the woman in the street. Dancing dogs do it for them, not dancing horses.

It doesn't matter who pays any of the expenses of getting a team there. Someone has to. And in countries without a big equestrian following, that money is much harder to find, if it's possible at all. So decade after decade it's the same, rich,  countries picking up the medals.


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## Mooseontheloose (14 August 2016)

Sailing is a phenomenally expensive sport, top class boats don't come cheap. Access to decent sailing venues, clubs coaching and so on are also expensive. 
Latest technology is very pricey, plus being able to get round the world to sail in the right conditions and so on.
What struck me yesterday watching the rowers being interviewed was that their orthodontic dentistry alone probably cost more than I've spent on horses in my life, very lovely smiles and teeth. 
As for dressage being appealing to the general public, after Greenwich a lot of people were entranced by it. I remember the black comedian Nathan Caton talking about it in a comedy sketch - but because he wanted to get back to see it not because he was knocking it.
I completely agree about the reporting. Yesterday's early news was full of the medals won by other athletes but then said Team GB were 'disappointed' not to hang on to their gold medal in the dressage!
Perhaps it is time for these equestrian sports to come out of the Olympics. There are wonderful Championships that these horses do already and without having to ship them half way round the world to do it. There's WEG (if it happens), Badminton, Burghley, Kentucky, Australian championships. Maybe we need to think laterally about this and consider things other than medals.
As for dressage, it's a subjective sport, like some of the gymnastics, and will always upset some. I think people who don't know about horses see the close ups of rowelled spurs, stewards checking for blood etc and think it's a real welfare issue. Perhaps we need to do more to bring people onside.
Lots to think about.


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## TGM (14 August 2016)

teapot said:



			I love the idea of a laser refusing to get in the water and ruining someone's dreams. In same vein, whilst rowing skulls arn't cheap, as Steve Redgrave said you don't need one to turn up at your local rowing club to learn to row, unlike pony club...
		
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Actually when I was a teenager, I did join Pony Club without having my own horse or pony, and learned a lot at the dismounted activities and from helping out and watching others, although, to be fair, I did eventually get my own horse so could then join in the ridden side of things.  At the branch of the Pony Club my daughter now belongs to, there are a lot of members who don't own their own ponies - some are on loan, and some are just 'borrowed' (so the member doesn't even incur the cost of keeping the animal).  And, of course, these days many riding schools are 'Pony Club Centres' where children can join in Pony Club activities on riding school ponies.  So whilst there are some costs involved, you don't necessarily need to own a horse/pony to join in.


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## ycbm (14 August 2016)

Yes, but you can demonstrate your talent in a smaller and inexpensive boat. You can't do that on a horse. A friend of mine had a daughter selected for national training after sailing a dinghy that cost only hundreds of pounds and didn't need feeding, stabling, or ever go lame. I have another friend whose daughter plays hockey for the England juniors. Neither of these families are very rich and neither had any contacts in those sports.

To get noticed in equestrian sports you have to be sat on a horse that wins, whether by money or by massive luck. It doesn't matter how much talent you have, unless you get sat on that special horse, you'll get nowhere.


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## Mince Pie (14 August 2016)

Whether the lay person in the street listens or not, there is a big enough equestrian following in this country to warrant keeping equestrian sports in the olympics. Also considering that in London all three of the teams came 'home' with medals, plus the dressage team this year - yes the eventers didn't manage it this year but fifth is still respectable, and if the show jumping team get a medal as well then that's 5 medals between 6 opportunities. What other sport has that claim? It would be very interesting to hear other country's views on equestrian events being dropped - I can't see the Germans, the Dutch, the Aussies or the Kiwis being that happy?


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## MotherOfChickens (14 August 2016)

I was annoyed by the constant 'Team GB had to settle for/could only manage silver' when bar one rider/horse combination it is a different team-no mention of that from what I saw.

The Beeb ran a short segment yesterday on synchronised swimming-how difficult it is physically with lactic acid build up etc and showed what happens underwater and it was quite eye opening. Something perhaps on how the equestrians keep fit and the amount of core strength they must have at the level would be good. 

As for the likes of the Guardian, I am convinced more and more that its written and read by sad 30 year olds still living in their parent's basements and too busy blaming the class structure in the UK to get off their arses and achieve anything. 

I think maybe equestrian events have had their time in the Olympics though, but more for the points raised above-I would miss the Olympic show jumping courses though!


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## ycbm (14 August 2016)

Mince Pie said:



			Whether the lay person in the street listens or not, there is a big enough equestrian following in this country to warrant keeping equestrian sports in the olympics. Also considering that in London all three of the teams came 'home' with medals, plus the dressage team this year - yes the eventers didn't manage it this year but fifth is still respectable, and if the show jumping team get a medal as well then that's 5 medals between 6 opportunities. What other sport has that claim? It would be very interesting to hear other country's views on equestrian events being dropped - I can't see the Germans, the Dutch, the Aussies or the Kiwis being that happy?
		
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Why should the Germans, Dutch, Australians, New Zealanders, Americans and British decide that Brazil should finance their competition? The Olympics is supposed to be open to the whole world.

PS go Mo!  That's a real Olympian for me. A Somali refugee, falls over, picks himself up and still becomes the first British track and field athlete to ever win three gold medals. What a man!!


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## Honeylight (14 August 2016)

I have tried to find that Telegraph link, it was on Facebook, but in a few days unless you save stuff it's hard to find posts.
What has made me mad is the sneering class conscious bit. Yes I know it's expensive and all the rest, but the Guardian is just making a joke about it. I don't mind so much if they treat it as a minority sport, report the result and move on, but they are just using it as another piece of evidence of an unequal society. That isn't really fair on the riders. Today they are having a "go" at Mo Fareh, saying he's involved in drugs and if he wasn't representing the UK he would be considered a cheat.
To go back to the dressage. It is hard for people to understand, I rode when I was younger and I know the movements and about training horses and whether one is balanced and going well , but even for me it is difficult to differentiate the outstanding from the very good. For a complete lay person this must be nigh on impossible, to them is it a person in funny clothes on a dancing horse. The commentators do not make it any easier, I haven't seen the coverage right from the beginning of each transmission, but some kind of explanation of the test and the movements might help. When it's the Grand National they have visuals to explain the course, something like that.
Years ago, when I was keen with ponies of my own, dressage wasn't televised on the Olympics at all, we just had people like Lorna Johnston? in the ruck, show jumping on the other hand was very popular and everyone seemed to watch that and understand the rules. No one sneered or made fun of dressage because it wasn't visible.


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## Pebble101 (14 August 2016)

MotherOfChickens said:



			The Beeb ran a short segment yesterday on synchronised swimming-how difficult it is physically with lactic acid build up etc and showed what happens underwater and it was quite eye opening. Something perhaps on how the equestrians keep fit and the amount of core strength they must have at the level would be good.
		
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They were going to do a piece on the dressage in the same programme but it just got dropped without explanation.


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## Pebble101 (14 August 2016)

TGM said:



			Actually when I was a teenager, I did join Pony Club without having my own horse or pony, and learned a lot at the dismounted activities and from helping out and watching others, although, to be fair, I did eventually get my own horse so could then join in the ridden side of things.  At the branch of the Pony Club my daughter now belongs to, there are a lot of members who don't own their own ponies - some are on loan, and some are just 'borrowed' (so the member doesn't even incur the cost of keeping the animal).  And, of course, these days many riding schools are 'Pony Club Centres' where children can join in Pony Club activities on riding school ponies.  So whilst there are some costs involved, you don't necessarily need to own a horse/pony to join in.
		
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I was a PC member on a riding school horse.  There were about 6 of us - we used to hack there and back (about an hour each way).  There was another riding school in the area that also attended.  There was a rosette given as the start of a rally for best turnout but they used to give one for private horses and one for riding school horses.


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## Orangehorse (14 August 2016)

I think that riders do not state the obvious for non riders, as they assume too much knowledge, that of course non riders do not have.

I would say that all horses start the same, as foals galloping round the fields with their dam (sorry, Mummy). And it is the rider who takes that young horse and gets it used to being ridden, and then teaches it to respond to aids (sorry, signals) and then gradually over years and years of training the horse becomes stronger physically and able to understand obey the rider with just differences in body weight, light pressure of the rider's legs and fingers.  Dressage training should be regarded as physiotherapy for the horse, to develop its muscles and physique and the exercises are a reflection of this.  The competition is which combination of horse and rider does them best, like the gymnast's competitions.


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## MotherOfChickens (14 August 2016)

Pebble101 said:



			They were going to do a piece on the dressage in the same programme but it just got dropped without explanation.
		
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what a shame! there was more favourable coverage during 2012 for the dressage but think overall the atmosphere in the UK has changed towards everything recently.


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## sasquatch (14 August 2016)

ycbm said:



			Yes, but you can demonstrate your talent in a smaller and inexpensive boat. You can't do that on a horse. A friend of mine had a daughter selected for national training after sailing a dinghy that cost only hundreds of pounds and didn't need feeding, stabling, or ever go lame. I have another friend whose daughter plays hockey for the England juniors. Neither of these families are very rich and neither had any contacts in those sports.

To get noticed in equestrian sports you have to be sat on a horse that wins, whether by money or by massive luck. It doesn't matter how much talent you have, unless you get sat on that special horse, you'll get nowhere.
		
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Again, I disagree. There were at least 2 ex-racehorses in the eventing competition, and there have been famous stories about horses who cost little to nothing and going out and winning Badminton etc. 

Dressage and SJ is harder to get into, without a doubt, because a lot more of it comes down to the horse through breeding and you're less likely to see an OTTB or a pony crossbreed or even a horse owned or part owned by the rider - but would you say John Whittaker is part of the 'elite' or someone who was lucky to be sat on a special horse 30 odd years ago?

Whilst that's good for your friend, I feel like that is the exception rather than the rule. Like I said, the only school I have been too that held their own regatta and could afford to offer sailing to the kids, was the private school. The school that were very good competitive rowers were the very highly regarded 'rugby and hockey school' that owned a boat house on the river. Sailing, when it comes down to it, if you're not very very naturally talented, can be very expensive. Even if you buy a cheap boat, you have to pay to have the boat kept somewhere or for the trailer to get it home or not, the maintenance of the boat etc.


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## Pebble101 (14 August 2016)

ycbm said:



			Why should the Germans, Dutch, Australians, New Zealanders, Americans and British decide that Brazil should finance their competition? The Olympics is supposed to be open to the whole world.

PS go Mo!  That's a real Olympian for me. A Somali refugee, falls over, picks himself up and still becomes the first British track and field athlete to ever win three gold medals. What a man!!
		
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Presumably if a country wants to host the Olympics they have to finance the whole package.  They don't have to but it's part of their decision making process and it seems a lot of Brazilians were unhappy about the whole thing.  The Brazilian eventers didn't do too badly!


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## MotherOfChickens (14 August 2016)

ycbm said:



			To get noticed in equestrian sports you have to be sat on a horse that wins, whether by money or by massive luck. It doesn't matter how much talent you have, unless you get sat on that special horse, you'll get nowhere.
		
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I agree. I am sure we have all known some truly talented riders who have never got a look in because they didn't have the horses or the money. To believe that talent alone will get you to the top in equestrian is naive and unrealistic.


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## MotherOfChickens (14 August 2016)

sasquatch said:



			Dressage and SJ is harder to get into, without a doubt, because a lot more of it comes down to the horse through breeding and you're less likely to see an OTTB or a pony crossbreed or even a horse owned or part owned by the rider - but would you say John Whittaker is part of the 'elite' or someone who was lucky to be sat on a special horse 30 odd years ago?
		
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Yes, the Whittakers are now the elite. Comparing equestrianism now to 30/40 years ago is comparing apples to oranges.


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## Mooseontheloose (14 August 2016)

The situation feeds on itself, as well. To be at the top you have to get into the five star shows. To get into the five star shows you have to be at the top. There's very little leeway for a talented youngster with only one horse, however good they may be, how hard they've worked, how talented they are. If they're not there with a string they're going to find it very difficult to get there. 
The Whitakers are elite, talented, well known, ubiquitous, fantastic riders. John and Michael are well known names, have proved beyond doubt how good they are. But it's hard to get even near them, let alone get past them.
Perhaps they'd like to bypass a few of the five star shows and let a few more of those yapping at their heels in. Someone's got to take over when they eventually retire!


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## Mince Pie (14 August 2016)

ycbm said:



			Why should the Germans, Dutch, Australians, New Zealanders, Americans and British decide that Brazil should finance their competition? The Olympics is supposed to be open to the whole world.

PS go Mo!  That's a real Olympian for me. A Somali refugee, falls over, picks himself up and still becomes the first British track and field athlete to ever win three gold medals. What a man!!
		
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I'm not suggesting they do, but are you saying that equestrian sports should be dropped purely so poorer countries can afford to host the games? Presumably Brazil knew what the costs of hosting the games would be before bidding?


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## Orangehorse (14 August 2016)

I know someone who was a cycling world champion, the expense of competition is pretty hefty.  If you are successful companies will sponsor you, others have to bear the expenses themselves. 

Are any team riders on their own horses apart from Carl Hester?  I think this has been discussed before and it was decided that to be a top class successful rider, winning at the top you need a) talent, b) hard work and willingness to be taught and learn, c) luck being in the right place at the right time.   Money helps, but with horses you can only buy success up to a point.

Any good rider will soon find themselves being offered horses to ride.  There is the owner who maybe will take their horse to Novice, but doesn't want to tackle the larger fences or owners who just like to have a horse but don't want to ride it,  like a racehorse owner.


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## Mooseontheloose (14 August 2016)

The days of a good young rider being offered horses to compete are nearly over. Horses capable of top jumping may well cost in excess of £100K. The top riders attract the top horses. That's the way of the world. It's very lucky when a young rider gets the ride on an international horse, and that's usually when they are a stable jockey so pretty good anyway.
The cost of taking a horse in eventing from Novice to four star is huge, in time, money effort and emotion. Not many owners of Novice horses can afford to do that. Wonderful if it happens.


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## ycbm (14 August 2016)

Orangehorse said:



			up to a point.

Any good rider will soon find themselves being offered horses to ride.  There is the owner who maybe will take their horse to Novice, but doesn't want to tackle the larger fences or owners who just like to have a horse but don't want to ride it,  like a racehorse owner.
		
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This just isn't true, unfortunately. And that's my point. 

If you want to become a formula one racer, you can showcase your talent in a go kart, as Hamilton did. If you want to showcase your talent as a rider, you simply HAVE to be sat on a talented 'formula one' horse.

All karts can race. Not all horses, or even a fraction of them, can do their sport at top level.

No other sport compares, AFAIK, for how difficult it is to show how talented you are, in order to get the sponsorship you need to get further.


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## millikins (14 August 2016)

i disagree that the equestrian sports are only for rich western countries. In eventing particularly many South American countries are on the up and Japan is nearly there. 

As regards reaching stardom if you have ability but no money, perhaps BE, BD and BS should do more talent spotting at Pony Clubs and PC Centres where talented young people could be offered rides on good animals rather than having to buy them. The big football clubs go looking for talent from 6 and 7 year olds and coach from there.


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## stormox (14 August 2016)

millikins said:



			i d

As regards reaching stardom if you have ability but no money, perhaps BE, BD and BS should do more talent spotting at Pony Clubs and PC Centres where talented young people could be offered rides on good animals rather than having to buy them. The big football clubs go looking for talent from 6 and 7 year olds and coach from there.
		
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Youve got  to have rich enough parents to have any sort of pony bought and kept for you, - and it costs plenty of money even to compete at BD/BE/PC lower levels, keeping the horse, tack/clothes, transport etc. Football boots are cheap in comparison!!


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## honetpot (14 August 2016)

When I was a young teenager I used to help out at local BS shows, there was even less money in it then but the money went further, most off the then top riders jumped off grass in rough rings every weekend with their young horses. John Whittaker is about the same age as me, I would often see him in a battered hat riding just about anything to get in the ring. I could spot that he was driven then, whether he was good rider or not. BS is a tough sport, the hours put in a lorry, stood a round in cold often depressing arenas in the depth of winter should not be underestimated.
  I think the show jumping dynasty's are that because from an early age they toughened up, a bit like farming, no whining cos' its cold or wet. What they are also good at is selling themselves, most of the top riders have to sell to get rides and get competition liveries, you have to get a result out of not only your top horse but also all the others on the yard.
  I still think the riding elite are rubbish at PR, as if making money creates a bad smell and telling people that being good takes really hard work and graft is not the done thing. The message from all the track and water athletes has been we are ordinary people doing extraordinary things though hard work, that not exactly true, a race bike with all the associated back up probably costs coming up to a show jumper but that is how they are selling it and communicating with the public.  Lewis Hamilton is a one off, in the most elite of sports but manages with PR and media training to make himself approachable and fallible.
     The recent rebranding of the PC has shown how behind the times the people in charge are, I had a quick look at the BD website and that is also not up to date, the news items days old. They all need a good shake.


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## SO1 (14 August 2016)

I don't think you can compare now with 30 years ago. I think it is getting harder now for those with less money to get into horses partially because of the cost of land now, which is being developed for house meaning that land even that without planning permission is very costly and you need land to keep and train horses.

I am in my mid 40's and grew up in the countryside, riding was very common amongst farming families and a native pony type living out was cheap to keep especially if you made your own hay and as a kid if you kept your pony on family farm, or had a paddock at home, then non-one had to take you to the livery yard twice a day and it was not so much of an effort to get into riding. Most kids did PC in the summer including camp and if they were good enough might get spotted or helped along the way by someone in pony club. I was lucky enough to have a pony at home and live with short distance of several other young people who had ponies at home so we could hack out together. Two us had trailers so if we wanted to go a show one of the dads would could take two kids and ponies we did not need to get the same parent to take us out all the time. I did not know anyone at PC that kept their pony at a livery yard. My dad thought that riding was a cheap and easy hobby which kept us out of mischief, I would not have had a childhood pony if I had had to keep it at  a livery yard there is no way my parents would have taken me there twice a day and waited around or paid for the costs. 

Now the cost of land is such that most people will be keeping horses at livery yards and for children this means a parent will need to take them twice a day (not all livery yards will let unaccompanied kids be on the yard on their own} and give up their own time to supervise their kids riding and looking after their ponies or the pony will needs to be on assisted DIY or part livery which is not cheap. Bearing in mind that many parents now work full time and school has become more demanding too, this could be difficult if the parent is not horsey themselves. For a young rider to be competitive you need family support as well as money. The days of the PC mum who does not work full time and can devote lots of time to helping their children be competitive number is dwindling as the stay at home mum with money to spare to spend on a child's hobby becomes a luxury option available only to the very rich. 

Sadly competitive riding at the top levels will probably end up being the preserve of the rich or those with connections and as such not very accessible to the average TV viewer.  All the publicity over years around hunting and the ban probably has not helped with PR either.


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## honetpot (14 August 2016)

I think basic riding is far more accessible than it was 30 years ago, you only have to look at FB to see how many do it. I come from a town, none of my friends rode, my first ride was on a gypsy pony, and the only other pony I saw was the rag and bone mans. I did not have proper lessons till I was 13, and my parents would have never thought of buying a pony even though we were not hard up. Now I know a few single mums with limited budgets who still mange to afford one. 
  The lines at PC are full of IW trailers and the large cars to pull them, walk round the boxes at Equifest, which is not elitist and you can see that families spend a lot of money on their hobby. For most its not a sport, its a hobby and part of a life style, with my children it was like learning how to swim, something they enjoyed but they were not true competitors. Horses are mainly companion animals for most owners, which for the horse is perhaps great.
  What ever sport you want to be good at elite level it's a job, whether you get paid for it or not.


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## Mooseontheloose (14 August 2016)

If you're a football talent scout and you can sign up someone young there are chances that they will become a commodity to the club and repay and money spent many times over. Unfortunately it's not like that for horses!


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## Honeylight (14 August 2016)

From what I see at a distance it has all changed so since I was in my teens. I am now in my middle fifties, but from thirteen to twenty one I had ponies. DIY livery at a local farm, an unshod pony who lived on hay and grass, never wore a rug or boots, a grazing hood or a fly cap, he was hairy in the winter and extremely low maintenance. Most of the other ponies on the yard were the same, the children and adults who rode there were a cross section of the local community, which wasn't an elite one, being in a largely working class community with farmland at the edges.
Now (to me) the fun seems to have evaporated, due to higher expectations and marketing of "must have" equine products, more roads, faster cars, everyone having to wear high visibility clothing, less bridleways. People even in rural areas seem less horse conscious, due to the fact more of the residents are from the towns. I did get a small amount of abuse in the 1970s but from what I've heard it's worse now. Society is more divided than ever and I agree with an earlier poster that anti Foxhunting lobbies haven't help, with people either too thick or poorly informed to realise not everyone on a horse supports or goes hunting.


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## Fellewell (14 August 2016)

I agree riding/ownership is more accessible now. History has shown that you can't just go out and buy an expensive rangy warmblood from proven lines and shoot straight to the top. It's like anything else in life you've got to want it badly enough to make serious sacrifices to get there. We had a lovely little stallion who would piaffe and passage just for the heck of it. He didn't know we couldn't afford a box with loads of pop outs, he just enjoyed showing himself off. It should be above all about the horses. Who doesn't enjoy watching the Iberians? Sure there's always the commentary about them not being able to lengthen but the differences and strengths of breeds makes it all the more interesting.
I also think that dressage captures the imagination of many viewers. Eddie Izzard did a routine about putting a horse in a cupboard. His audience were not all equestrians but they knew why they were laughing.

And while we're at it, who doesn't understand the off side rule in football but still watches?


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## Mince Pie (14 August 2016)

Fellewell said:



			I also think that dressage captures the imagination of many viewers. Eddie Izzard did a routine about putting a horse in a cupboard. His audience were not all equestrians but they knew why they were laughing.
		
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddQs1_HyyAo


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## teapot (14 August 2016)

TGM said:



			Actually when I was a teenager, I did join Pony Club without having my own horse or pony, and learned a lot at the dismounted activities and from helping out and watching others, although, to be fair, I did eventually get my own horse so could then join in the ridden side of things.  At the branch of the Pony Club my daughter now belongs to, there are a lot of members who don't own their own ponies - some are on loan, and some are just 'borrowed' (so the member doesn't even incur the cost of keeping the animal).  And, of course, these days many riding schools are 'Pony Club Centres' where children can join in Pony Club activities on riding school ponies.  So whilst there are some costs involved, you don't necessarily need to own a horse/pony to join in.
		
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People on borrowed horses happens at all levels though, PC is no different and I wasn't saying it didn't happen. I'm also not denying that the PC centres do their bit but realistically how many PC centre members are competing on PC teams at regional and national level? Is talent spotting ever done at PC centres? Also depending on area, they're still not cheap or accessible. My local PC centre charges £340 for their non residential summer camp for example.

Interestingly the 'talent spotter' for the Para squad does a lot of spotting both at BD classes AND at RDA competitions. I've heard him speak a few times and it isn't just about people getting spotted, the powers that be have to spot where the talent is too. There are very talented RDA riders who wouldn't choose to, or are not able to compete at BD through horse availability, cost, etc etc.


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## SO1 (14 August 2016)

I also wonder if the lack of coverage is linked to sponsorship of other sports by multinationals - the market for trainers and sports clothing is huge as people will wear it even if they don't play sports due to fashion. These companies know the value of exposure for their products and have large and very professional marketing teams with huge budgets and influence, who will help their sponsored athletes get media exposure. 

The way that top riders are supported is different they have the support of an owner and sponsorship from feed companies or such like but it is not the same as having the support of a big multinational sports company behind them.


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## TheOldTrout (14 August 2016)

I'd love to hear an explanation of why they were showing Serbia vs Greece in the water polo on one of the main BBC channels earlier this week. Great Britain hadn't even got a team qualified in the water polo. And I was looking for dressage, in which Great Britain had not only qualified but were reigning Olympic champions.


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## bongo-girl (15 August 2016)

I wrote a whole spiel on this earlier but it has't posted - so I'll have another go!

I think that there are a whole host of reasons - for lack of engagement/coverage/general public interest.  I'll give my 2 pennies worth on a couple:

If you aren't from a horsey background, horses are SCARY!  They are big, they are unpredictable (in the eyes of people who don't know them) and if you are an urban or even suburban parent, you are far more likely to sign your kids up for classes in a more regular and 'safe(?)' sport that is run as a class at your local lesiure/sports centre, then hoick out to the unknown and a yard which can be pretty intimidating and alien even to initiated.  'Horse riding' can me a holiday treat....once a year, as an experience rather than as a sport to grow and develop in.

Dressage especially (and SJ and eventing to a degree) LOOKS funny. In every other sport, 21st century technology dictates that the clothes and apparel worn are hi-tec and productive and positive towards the athletes performance.  Top hat and tail, it ain't! And I'm sorry - as elegant William and Carl and Charlotte look to us, you have to admit it plays right into the 'toff sport' stereotype.

We don't sound like 'normal' people! Lol.  Please take all I am writing in the good humour it is intended.  But with the exception of one or two, riders all sound well-to-do.  That doesn't mean that they aren't the hardest working/most grounded/professional/humble/funniest/kindest/most brilliant but they all sound 'just so nice'.  The way we talk about the sport too.  When it goes right or wrong riders don't sound like other sportsmen> They blame themselves constantly when things go wrong, talk about how their horses are their 'best friends' etc etc...none of which I disagree with, but it doesn't create the same public image as the more steely cyclists, athletes or swimmers.  Self deprecation is good - overly humble 'oh silly me, we missed out on a medal, never mind, he was brilliant it was all my fault' maybe doesn't sit as well with the non horsey brigade?

I often grimace at he clunky explanations of the sport of radio/tv. Was it only me that found it odd that Aggers was referring to the dressage riders as 'the next athlete in will be xx' on 5Live?  I guess its better than calling them jockeys though . Gary Lineker's patronising and classist 'tally ho' at the end of the the London 2012 report about our dressage double gold still makes me see red, but are they any better with the detail and accuracy of things like judo, sailing, etc?  I don't know so take the knowledge they are imparting as fairly interesting.  Maybe seasoned sports men and women of those fields also feel they are being dumbed down?

And then our own 'in store' coverage.  Our commentators seem obsessed with horses breeding and tell you all about the bloodlines which is SOLELY for those in the know.  Means NOTHING to the casual viewer dull, dull, dull. I'll leave alone of phrases like 'The Argentine' and 'lady rider' or that someone heralds from 'good hunting stock' 

How do we remedy these?  Dunno for the most part.  But identifying the elements that make us unrelateable is surely the first step?

Maybe there isn't an answer.  Maybe we just have to stop trying to please everyone and accept that our sport IS niche and pretty elitest, instead of denying these facts amd bemoaning that we don't get the support/coverage/acceptance.  It doesn't make it or us BAD, but it is what it is...


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## TGM (15 August 2016)

teapot said:



			People on borrowed horses happens at all levels though, PC is no different and I wasn't saying it didn't happen. I'm also not denying that the PC centres do their bit but realistically how many PC centre members are competing on PC teams at regional and national level? Is talent spotting ever done at PC centres? Also depending on area, they're still not cheap or accessible. My local PC centre charges £340 for their non residential summer camp for example.

Interestingly the 'talent spotter' for the Para squad does a lot of spotting both at BD classes AND at RDA competitions. I've heard him speak a few times and it isn't just about people getting spotted, the powers that be have to spot where the talent is too. There are very talented RDA riders who wouldn't choose to, or are not able to compete at BD through horse availability, cost, etc etc.
		
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I've met at least one Centre Member who has competed at the Pony Club National Championships and I am sure there are more. I also know that one member of our branch who has never had her own horse/pony (even on loan) is competing at the Open PC Championships this year on a borrowed but tricky horse.  I'm not saying it is easy, but it does happen.

And interestingly, I know a couple of youngsters whose parents tried to 'buy' them their way to the top in terms of horsepower and yet they got nowhere.  (One admitted they could have bought a small house with the sums they had spent financing their daughter's eventing dreams).


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## stormox (15 August 2016)

I dont think you are right about 'top hat and tails' looking 'funny'. No one thinks the people in Downton Abbey 'look funny' - everyone marvels about the elegance of the age, the lovely clothes etc. Mr Darcy just wouldnt be the same in a baseball cap and low slung jeans - and neither would dressage look or be right - the clothes are designed for the sport, ie boots are needed to protect the legs (ever had a pinched leg from riding in jeans?) 
What is wrong  with being humble and praising your horse when you/he mess up? You should have heard the comments from my non-horsey friends when some of the show jumpers became more 'steely' and used the whips? We should be kind where animals are involved, that has always been seen as a positive, not a negative.
The main problem as I see it stems from the local small  riding schools closing because of insurance etc- that was how the less well off who liked horses started riding in they heyday of equestrian sport.
And another 'rant' while I'm in the mood- people used to identify with their 'horse heroes' - the plucky little Stroller, the giant Anglezarke, the back-kicking Vibart, but nowadays the horses arent as important, its the riders name in BIG letters, the horses name in small ones. Its all about the rider now, even the start list for the Olympics didnt have the horses name, only the rider


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## MotherOfChickens (15 August 2016)

some good points bongo-girl. I would also say, the BBC could learn something from Sky coverage of show jumping which has more interesting shots and explanation of the technicalities of the course in an exciting way-rather than glossing over and mentioning strides without any context. And you're right, noone gives a stuff about the breeding except maybe a passing mention of why so many look alike.

Stockdale is really engaging and appeals to everyone, shame we can't find someone like him to do the commentary.


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## ycbm (15 August 2016)

Stormox you will never convince me that white breeches or a tail coat are the most effective sporting gear for riding horses. Have you seen the state of those guys' breeches at the award ceremony? And tails flopping around the horse's sides?

Can anyone explain why riders at that level are still forced to have two bits in the horse's mouth even if they hate it? One of our riders was barely holding the curb rein and rode the whole test on the snaffle with big loops on the lower rein. To an uneducated watcher, it looked incompetent.


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## ycbm (15 August 2016)

Great post bongo


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## MotherOfChickens (15 August 2016)

stormox said:



			I dont think you are right about 'top hat and tails' looking 'funny'. No one thinks the people in Downton Abbey 'look funny' - everyone marvels about the elegance of the age,
		
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keep point = 'elegance of the age'. Of course you need to keep boots etc but sure the kit can be modernised.


It is a shame there are so few showjumping horse heroes these days but guess that goes along with reduced TV coverage and public interest. It's a great shame, as its one of the very few (only?) sports where men and women compete on equal terms. I also think its no less elitist than F1 (and there is so much wrong with F1 its not funny) which arguably, much harder for a woman to race in F1 than to become an international rider! 

I remember being on holiday in Switzerland back in the 80s, seemed like every mid-sized town had a show jumping arena. It seemed really popular in Sweden etc. Has the sport lost public interest there as well?


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## Mince Pie (15 August 2016)

MotherOfChickens said:



			Stockdale is really engaging and appeals to everyone, shame we can't find someone like him to do the commentary.
		
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Honestly, we need Geoff Billington doing commentary, I'd watch the SJ for him! And he doesn't sound 'plummy'


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## MotherOfChickens (15 August 2016)

Mince Pie said:



			Honestly, we need Geoff Billington doing commentary, I'd watch the SJ for him! And he doesn't sound 'plummy' 

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tbf not many of the sjers do  but conversely many can't seemingly string a sentence together. But Billington is a good call.


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## WeeLassie (15 August 2016)

ycbm said:



			Stormox you will never convince me that white breeches or a tail coat are the most effective sporting gear for riding horses. Have you seen the state of those guys' breeches at the award ceremony? And tails flopping around the horse's sides?

Can anyone explain why riders at that level are still forced to have two bits in the horse's mouth even if they hate it? One of our riders was barely holding the curb rein and rode the whole test on the snaffle with big loops on the lower rein. To an uneducated watcher, it looked incompetent.
		
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Well,what would your idea of a more 'popular' dressage outfit look like? Personally I rather like the tail coats, white britches etc. I think the cyclists, in their one pieces which leave NOTHING to the imagination look ridiculous when standing for team photos!!
I dont understand why you should think riding on the snaffle rein of a double bridle looks incompetent,most people wouldnt even notice, but its no different to having 10 gears on a cycle and riding in 6th gear- if you need it, use it,if you arent needing it, its there in case you do.


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## Honeylight (15 August 2016)

"people used to identify with their 'horse heroes' - the plucky little Stroller, the giant Anglezarke, the back-kicking Vibart, but nowadays the horses arent as important, its the riders name in BIG letters, the horses name in small ones. Its all about the rider now, even the start list for the Olympics didnt have the horses name, only the rider"

Very true about not being able to relate to the horses. When showjumping had it's TV Golden Era in the 1970s, the horses were much more individual. Stroller, Mattie Brown, Vibart, Flanagan, Mister Softee,Ryan's Son, Penwood Forge Mill, fairly ordinary looking horses that you might see at a local riding club, each with a distinctive look and personality. They were bred to be all rounders, being by TBs out of Cleveland, Irish draughts, Clydesdales, Connemaras, Welsh cobs, and we could relate to them.Then we got the influx of warmbloods at the expense of our own native breeds, These horses to the untrained eye look pretty identical, they all do the job in the same way. Showjumping has become rather slick and as a result boring, the withdrawal of TV support has meant that the horses and riders are no longer household names. You have to have the top priced Sky package to see any showjumping apart from the Christmas coverage on the BBC.


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## bongo-girl (15 August 2016)

stormox said:



			I dont think you are right about 'top hat and tails' looking 'funny'. No one thinks the people in Downton Abbey 'look funny' - everyone marvels about the elegance of the age, the lovely clothes etc. Mr Darcy just wouldnt be the same in a baseball cap and low slung jeans - and neither would dressage look or be right - the clothes are designed for the sport, ie boots are needed to protect the legs (ever had a pinched leg from riding in jeans?) 
What is wrong  with being humble and praising your horse when you/he mess up? You should have heard the comments from my non-horsey friends when some of the show jumpers became more 'steely' and used the whips? We should be kind where animals are involved, that has always been seen as a positive, not a negative.

I just meant in the context of 21st century professional sport.  I adore the costumes in Downton, but if I turned up to work trussed up like Lady Mary I think there might be the odd arched eyebrow...hang on, there's an idea!

And nothing wrong with humility - but its a fine balance though - and we are talking about engaging with people who don't understand the incredible psychological partnership between horse and rider.  My OH jokingly quipped after a typical 'it wasn't his (the horse's) fault, it was my silly mistake' interview 'well if you make such 'stupid mistakes - why are you on the team?'!  It was said in jest and he knows exactly what the rider mean't - he was only playing devil's advocate - but again - to the uninitiated the odd 'yeah - sometimes its just not your day' or 'yep - I'm gutted - we just got it wrong coming into the double - but that's life' sounds a little more relatable to non riders.  We aren't looking to engage with people who already love the sport - we know for a fact that we will all sniff out coverage/forums/debate to get our hit...its the 'others' we want to worry about 

And 'Steely' and 'competitive' doesn't have to mean cruel....and glad those two show jumpers were called out on their mis-use of whips/spurs etc.  Animal welfare HAS to come first.
		
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## Jenni_ (15 August 2016)

ycbm said:



			Stormox you will never convince me that white breeches or a tail coat are the most effective sporting gear for riding horses. Have you seen the state of those guys' breeches at the award ceremony? And tails flopping around the horse's sides?

Can anyone explain why riders at that level are still forced to have two bits in the horse's mouth even if they hate it? One of our riders was barely holding the curb rein and rode the whole test on the snaffle with big loops on the lower rein. To an uneducated watcher, it looked incompetent.
		
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An uneducated watcher wouldn't even know what the correct way to use double reins is. 

An educated watcher would know unfortuantely the second one is required to be there under the rules, but good on her for being able to compete a horse at GP getting 70 odd percent, essentially in a snaffle!


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## teapot (15 August 2016)

bongo-girl said:



			And then our own 'in store' coverage.  Our commentators seem obsessed with horses breeding and tell you all about the bloodlines which is SOLELY for those in the know.  Means NOTHING to the casual viewer dull, dull, dull.
		
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Yes, yes, yes! Not sure many need to know that the dam's great great grand sire called Spot won a race in 1876. Agree with so much of your post. 

I know all of Team GB get media training but compare the interviews of the Equestrian team to how Jess Ennis interviews. You can see how/why the 'elite image' appears.


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## TheOldTrout (15 August 2016)

On a brighter note, the Guardian's rolling updates have given decent (for them) coverage of the dressage.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/l...ay-ten-athletics-omnium-dressage-sailing-live


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## TheOldTrout (16 August 2016)

Since Charlotte's win yesterday, a number of non-horsey people I know have commented on what a beautiful horse Valegro is and what a rapport he and Charlotte have. She's done a great job of making people notice equestrian sports.


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## Lexi_ (16 August 2016)

Someone sent me this yesterday - http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/08/08/charlotte-dujardin-dominates-dressage

It's pre-Olympics (just) but a really insightful, interesting piece aimed at the non-dressage enthusiast.


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## Cortez (16 August 2016)

Lexi_ said:



			Someone sent me this yesterday - http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/08/08/charlotte-dujardin-dominates-dressage

It's pre-Olympics (just) but a really insightful, interesting piece aimed at the non-dressage enthusiast.
		
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That's a wonderful piece of writing, about dressage, about riding and about what it's really all about - of horses and men (women).


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## mle22 (16 August 2016)

Front page of the Guardian sport section today


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## gryff (16 August 2016)

What an awesome article. Beautifully written. Thank you for sharing.


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## ycbm (16 August 2016)

Daily Express today had three large pictures of Charlotte and Valegro, one on the front page, and two big reports, one in the front half and one in the sport.


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## Honeylight (16 August 2016)

Hopefully the press have been taking heed of all the positive comments about equestrian sport. I have been posting on all the Guardian comments bits.


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## TheOldTrout (17 August 2016)

Honeylight said:



			Hopefully the press have been taking heed of all the positive comments about equestrian sport. I have been posting on all the Guardian comments bits.
		
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I'd noticed somebody who knows about horses posting on there, bet it was you!


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## Biska (17 August 2016)

stencilface said:



			Rowing is always well covered and popular. It's a prime toff sport and expensive too. My cousin just missed out on going this year.
		
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I think if you live near a rowing river or lake then it is cheap to join a club and get training. I have many friends and family members who row. It is not difficult to get into.


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## stencilface (17 August 2016)

Biska said:



			I think if you live near a rowing river or lake then it is cheap to join a club and get training. I have many friends and family members who row. It is not difficult to get into.
		
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Having seem some of the people my cousin (a boy from devon) hangs out with you won't convince me it's not posh I'm afraid! 

Does anyone else think the tack rules are frankly ridiculous, surely having to have a curb rein when not needed is as archaic as tails and a hat made from velvet and cardboard, sorry top hat.


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## tallyho! (17 August 2016)

Lexi_ said:



			Someone sent me this yesterday - http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/08/08/charlotte-dujardin-dominates-dressage

It's pre-Olympics (just) but a really insightful, interesting piece aimed at the non-dressage enthusiast.
		
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Just... lovely


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## tallyho! (17 August 2016)

stencilface said:



			Having seem some of the people my cousin (a boy from devon) hangs out with you won't convince me it's not posh I'm afraid! 

Does anyone else think the tack rules are frankly ridiculous, surely having to have a curb rein when not needed is as archaic as tails and a hat made from velvet and cardboard, sorry top hat.
		
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I always dreamed of riding in TH&T but... if it meant I was seen as a toff, I would immediately bin them as toff I am not! 

I agree that it needs updating... I mean we've been doing dressage for hundreds of years and since then our dress has also changed. I mean if it really was to stay "traditional" surely ladies really ought to be wearing bustles under their dresses and riding side-saddle. Or if we went back to the time of Socrates (according to article) maybe just a loin cloth?

I agree it needs to be smart but up to date and "accessible".


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## autumnap (17 August 2016)

tallyho! said:



			I always dreamed of riding in TH&T but... if it meant I was seen as a toff, I would immediately bin them as toff I am not! 

I agree that it needs updating... I mean we've been doing dressage for hundreds of years and since then our dress has also changed. I mean if it really was to stay "traditional" surely ladies really ought to be wearing bustles under their dresses and riding side-saddle. Or if we went back to the time of Socrates (according to article) maybe just a loin cloth?

I agree it needs to be smart but up to date and "accessible".
		
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Indeed, and I'm sure that pratt Tucker was commentating just as irritatingly back then too!!


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## suffolkmare (17 August 2016)

Goldenstar said:



			Many sports are very very expensive .
Those bikes don't come cheap .
		
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Hmmm, and where would my nearest velodrome be?


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## teapot (17 August 2016)

suffolkmare said:



			Hmmm, and where would my nearest velodrome be?
		
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London I would guess. That said, a lot of Team GB cyclists started out in road races and you can't say those arn't accessible.


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## SO1 (17 August 2016)

I doesn't help having articles like the Daily Mail one where in the first few paragraphs they mention that Valegro is a 6 million pound horse.

However I think some of the people who criticise the equine sports for being expensive especially at the top level may have forgotten that football traditionally seen as a working class sport has huge amounts of money put into it by the billionaires who own the clubs and the footballers themselves are paid masses of money. Often the clubs with the most money invested into them win.

I expect it is a lot cheaper to own a top dressage horse than it is to own a top football club!


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## Jo_x (18 August 2016)

SO1 said:



			I expect it is a lot cheaper to own a top dressage horse than it is to own a top football club!
		
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Well obviously.

But buying a football to practice with to get noticed is a hell of a lot cheaper than buying or borrowing a horse to practice on to get noticed!


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## teapot (18 August 2016)

SO1 said:



			I expect it is a lot cheaper to own a top dressage horse than it is to own a top football club!
		
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Or you can be Leicester City's owner and also own the polo team that won the Gold Cup this year!


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## criso (18 August 2016)

There are a combination of things that come together with dressage.  

Dressage falls into the sports like gymnastics or Ice dancing in the winter olympics that are subjective in terms of judging and every so often someone brings this up and says it not a real sport.

It's seen as posh, it's not the only one,  I've lived in a few coastal areas and the sailing lot are a lot posher than the horsey lot.  I'm not sure what it costed to join the local yacht club but if it wasn't cost, there were cultural reasons why it wasn't representative of society.  But it's  easier to understand that the boat in front wins than comparing the quality of Valegros paces with another horse so people can get behind that easily when theirs a gb athlete doing well.  

Lastly there's a lack of understanding that leads people to think that the horse does all the work.  

Funnily enough it's possibly Charlotte's fiance that's helped the most as his sign and the upcoming marriage has given the newpapers a human interest story which has helped.


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## teapot (18 August 2016)

criso said:



			Funnily enough it's possibly Charlotte's fiance that's helped the most as his sign and the upcoming marriage has given the newpapers a human interest story which has helped.
		
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I think that's a great point about having a human story. Look how much coverage William Fox-Pitt got, and it wasn't about him still not winning an individual or the sport, it was about the fact nine months ago he was in a coma.


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## JDee (18 August 2016)

Maybe the media could take a day off from stereotyping us and look at all the very ordinary working class and middle class people who have made tons of sacrifices and put in a lot of work and effort over the years to own a horse and compete or hunt


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## stormox (19 August 2016)

I, as a total 'love all thing horsey' freak, was totally turned off by the team show jumping. I thought the horses were asked too big questions, there was an awful lot of kick,pull,yank by the riders, fair enough a couple were pulled up for it, a lot of very unhappy horses who looked like they didnt want to be in there, but worst of all, the commentators kept saying xxxxx is leading after after  1st round, after 2 riders have gone etc, which was totally pointless as theres a discard score. So it isnt over till the  last or possibly the third rider has gone. I turned it off, hardly watched any.. I hope the individuals are better.


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## Honeylight (19 August 2016)

Referring to mention of the press and the human aspect.
Yes they just love a story don't they? I know I would sell more paintings at my private view tonight if I put a sign up saying I had incurable cancer and I'm sure the press would have covered it too. I, like I imagine William as well, want to separate career stuff from illness or accident. The press are ghouls though, they love it. Why can't they just cover the sports?


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## bongo-girl (31 August 2016)

Anyone hear Pippa Funnell on Simon Mayo's Radio 2 show this afternoon - discussing Burghley.  Nice to hear it get a mention.


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## hackneylass2 (1 September 2016)

Honeylight, I loved your post!
We must be the same age group.  It used to be all about the horses in showjumping, I think thats why folks got behind it, horses were characters, admittedly so were some riders (eg top riders going into the ring in drag and jumping bareback) ah, those were the days!
The commentators, one in particular, must stop all this 'owned by Lady So and So' etc when referring to the horses.  Who really cares? Lots of commentary make the sport sound more elitist than it is.
My opinion is that when you get to Olympic or just sub Olympic standard, whatever your sport, you need serious money as you have to give up your day job, if the Lottery or similar don't give you a grant, you are pretty much screwed.  That said, I really think that lots of non horsey folk enjoy watching dressage without understanding all its technicalities....dancing horses, let's have more of them on TV,


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## bongo-girl (4 September 2016)

Anyone watching Burghley on BBC2 now?  Very grand opening sequence.  And Lizzie Greenwood Hughes at the helm...this could be interesting....


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