# Help - first time buyer



## Mimi2502 (13 October 2017)

Hi there, 

Bit of background about me first: 

I'm 33, ridden (alot) as a kid. Loaned a horse when i was 19 and it went badly wrong with me injuring my back. I stopped riding for 10 years. 

Got back into it a year ago, after 6 mnths i loaned the stable owners 16.3hh ISH. That ended 1st Oct (i was always told it was a summer loan only) - spoke to yard owner who said she thinks i'm "ready" (well, no one is really ready but you know what i mean!) to buy. Due to what happened last time, i've not REALLY looked tbh and was hoping the yard would find me one however someone i know is selling hers. 

Mare 17hh, ISH, 18yo £1700 with tack and wardrobe. However she has mentioned a "knock" on her back left leg meaning the horse can only jump 1.20 (i'm only jumping 80s anyway due to lack of confidence) - the knock is mentioned on her passport but owner says never been an issue or caused lameness, happened before she bought the mare and it was never operated on.  

Speaking to 2 horsey friends, 1 said it sounds ideal, other says too old and knock injury is putting her off. 

What's your opinion? Thanks


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## MissGee (13 October 2017)

Age is just a number ;-) 

A lot I would say depends on how well you know your friend/the horse and what they've been doing.  If you've known them a while, the horse is fit and out doing what you would want to be doing, then go for it.  She's clearly capable and hasn't broken down with her so I would be quite happy to take the risk. 

However, if the horse isn't fit and not out competing at "at least" the level you want to (preferably higher) then I would steer clear, you might end up putting time and effort into getting her fit only to find out she's not up to the job.


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## be positive (13 October 2017)

I would want to know why it is for sale, what the owner has been/ is currently doing with her, whether you have ridden her and feel she is suitable before being bothered by an old injury that may have no bearing on her soundness or suitability for you, at 18 she is not going to be able to make progress from where she is now so her jumping being limited is fairly irrelevant if she is happy at the level you want to do.

Things you need to consider, you need to get on with her before even thinking of buying, just because it is someone you know does not mean you will like riding their horse, get her vetted to ensure everything else is fit and well, the leg injury would not bother me if she has been doing the job I want her to do as if it has held up for years it is unlikely to be an issue now.


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## Mimi2502 (13 October 2017)

See I'm more of a happy hacker rather than competing. When I had the horse over the summer we hacked, schooled and jumped. I'd like to do summer camp but I'm not a competing person 

I know the girl and speak to her but I don't 'know know' her if that makes sense but I do believe she's genuine - she's swelling as she can't fund the horse and has offered loan with view to buy if I decide I want the horse. 

Currently the horse is being ridden by a teenager who is riding 6 days a week. I'm only jumping 80 so wouldn't even get near the 1.20  

I'm riding her next week but when I've mentioned the horse to a few people tonight they've all said 18 is too old and it's bothering me now 

If I went down the route to buy I'd definitely have her vetted etc, I just don't know what to do


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## be positive (13 October 2017)

I suspect the mares main value is as a jumping schoolmistress, if she is capable of jumping up to 1.20 tracks she could still give some fun to a competitive person with very limited funds, as a happy hacker with a bit of extra thrown in she is probably not really worth as much to you and at her size may well be getting towards the end of her really active life at a time when you want to do more, she will be 19 in a few months.
I think £1700 is top end of what she is worth, unless the tack is very good quality it will be worth no more than £500 second hand, possibly far less if the saddle is synthetic, I would go and view but with a very open mind if only to rule her out and allow you to have more idea of what you want/ will get for that money, I have no idea how tall you are but I would look for something in the 15-15.2 height range for the job you need that would be easier in many ways than something 17 hands.


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## Squeak (13 October 2017)

As others have said a huge amount depends on what she has done and so what she can offer now, 18 is old for a horse and it's heartbreaking when they start to breakdown.  Try riding her but I'd recommend going and looking at a couple of others as well so that you have a comparison.  Good luck and enjoy finding your first horse


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## Pearlsasinger (14 October 2017)

If you do take this mare on you must be prepared for the fact that that you will be her last home. It works be unethical at best to sell her on, as she gets older. This could mean that you have to fund expensive regular medication in just a few months/years.


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## Mimi2502 (15 October 2017)

Hi everyone 

So I went today to see the mare. Before I went I spoke to my yard owner who said the age isn't a problem but she would need to have manners as She's a big horse 

So... went today and honestly I couldn't fault the horse. She's perfect. We caught her from the field easily, I did a few checks, tacked her up, checked her paces and whether she responds to me and did a (little) jump on her. So what now? 5 point vet check - but anything else?


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## Equi (15 October 2017)

5* vet and a letter to your bank that no you have not been hacked, you are actually spending this amount of money each month on equine related paraphernalia.


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## Mimi2502 (15 October 2017)

equi said:



			letter to your bank that no you have not been hacked, you are actually spending this amount of money each month on equine related paraphernalia.
		
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lol 

Well i need to check with yard what they want but my friend is at a yard down the road and using her yearly costing i need to pay approx £440 a month for EVERYTHING (full livery) which tbh is affordable. 

I need to check about livery - i could in theory go 7 days a week to muck my own stable, the only thing I would need help with is someone giving her feed. Shes stabled over winter so i dont need to turn her out, I plan on exercising her 5 days a week and resting her the 2 days i work. In summer she can live out so will be easier but I'm not sure what the livery will charge. For the "smaller" cob sized horses s £75pw full livery however it will be more for a 17hh! (and oddly in summer you still have to do own haynets / muck out even if on full livery??)


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## Equi (15 October 2017)

Can i ask why you would be full livery if you can still go up 7 days a week? Feeding just would be seen to me as assisted DIY not full.


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## Mimi2502 (15 October 2017)

I based my costs on full livery because I know it will be cheaper so I can budget. My plan is: 

Ride Thursday - Monday (rest Tuesday and Wednesday when I'm at work) 

During winter she's stabled so on the Tuesday and Wednesday when I'm mucking out I can put her in a school to have a kick about them return her to stable, if she needs the exercise then there is a walker that the staff can put her in 

I can get feeds/nets ready, they will literally just need to put them in 

In summer, she will live out 

I just need to check with the stables 'what' level they class the liveries (or rather - if DIY is suitable for me and what that cost would be)


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## FestiveFuzz (16 October 2017)

I'd be quite concerned about having a horse stabled 24/7 in winter, particularly an older horse who is more likely to get stiff from standing around. Also if they don't have enough turnout to allow winter turnout will they be able to accomodate her being out 24/7 in summer? Is there anywhere near you that does year round turnout instead? 

If you go down the route of DIY you will be expected to go down twice a day to feed, do haynets, muck out, skip out and exercise on the days you plan to ride (although if she's in the whole time you may find you need to muck out twice depending on how messy she is) so it may be time and cost effective to consider assisted or part livery.

Where we are the price doesn't change depending on height, but it's worth bearing in mind your hay/feed costs may be higher if these are not included in your livery price.


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## 9tails (16 October 2017)

You don't seem to have a grasp on livery yet.  DIY livery is the cheapest; you turn out and bring in your horse, supply your own bedding, supply your own feed and hay.  You muck out daily.  Prices are around £25 - £35 per week.

Full livery is the polar opposite of DIY, someone else does all the above for you and you pay a premium.  Prices can be anything from £75 to £100+ per week.

Being kept in for the entire winter is a TERRIBLE idea for any horse but especially an older horse.  

If you're on full livery, why are you talking about mucking out on Tuesday and Wednesday?  Full livery includes mucking out.  Why are you getting feeds and haynets ready?  Full livery includes that.


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## Leo Walker (16 October 2017)

Please dont buy this horse and leave her stood in a box half the year. Its a recipe for disaster! Older horses stiffen up if stood in and most horses will get sharper with no turnout. Not what you want in a first horse. 

I'd also think long and hard about this. Shes a big horse and they sadly dont tend to last as long as smaller horses and ponies. You might get 5yrs "work" out of her, you might get 5months. She will need more care and attention and will need to slow down at some point in the nearish future. Are you prepared to keep her in retirement for 10yrs+ or have her PTS to get another one?

Do you have experienced help? You seem to be unsure of how livery works and I'm not sure you have thought it through properly yet.


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## Widgeon (16 October 2017)

I think the OP means she based her costs on full livery because it will probably end up being cheaper than that, i.e. if she does some days on part livery doing bits herself (OP this may or may not be true though - after you've factored in buying your own hay if necessary, paying for extra bring-ins etc on the occasional time you can't make your "DIY" days, etc etc, all week full livery might be the most cost effective option). I don't know that all yards would let you do that either - I know some do packages of "full during the week and DIY at weekends", but they might not want you to mix and match your days.

That is a good point about being in all winter, can you can find some sort of option to let her potter about a bit? Even if it's just in a turnout pen?


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## FestiveFuzz (16 October 2017)

I took it to mean the OP had used the costings of full livery to work out their budget, knowing that it would most likely be more expensive than the DIY or assisted they'd be looking at and therefore that they could definitely afford the costs. 

The other thing to add, is quite a few yards are quite fixed in what they offer and might not be too keen on the mix and match set up you seem to want i.e. no turnout in winter and out 24/7 in summer so it's definitely worth speaking to the YO at length as to what is possible and included so there are no surprises once you have the horse. 

Has the current owner said what routine the horse is in at present? You'd be best looking to find a yard that can replicate this routine so you can minimise the upheaval of moving yards. 

Also not sure whereabouts you are but £440 per month for EVERYTHING (assuming you're not just meaning livery costs) seems rather cheap if the horse is on full livery. Granted I'm in the SE so costs are at a premium, but my livery bill alone is significantly more than that for part livery (everything done barring exercise and all feed/bedding included), without factoring in shoes (£95 every 5-6 weeks), insurance (£50p/m), lessons/training (around £200p/m), supplements and any ad-lib costs that have a habit of cropping up such as dentist, saddler, replacing rugs, worm counts etc. So you'd possibly be better off asking the current owner what their costs are to get a more realistic steer of what your monthly outgoings would be.


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## Mimi2502 (16 October 2017)

Sorry I think I've confused everyone &#65533;&#65533; 

I've based my costs on FULL livery (to make sure I can afford it) but I won't be on that.

I'm unsure about what livery I want/need - I'm talking to YO about it later.

In winter at the yard currently. All horses are bought in mid week (Wed) they are turned out at the weekend (Sunday) so have 2 rest days. The horse I'm looking at currently lives out in day, and bought in each night. The current owner said that the horse 'lives in' but that it's because the horse doesn't like the cold. She did mention that she does however, follow her yards routine (which is horses in each night throughout winter) 

The reason I was talking about mucking out Is that regardless what routine it's in, it will be stabled at some point. I could therefore do the majority of horse care except give it feed throughout the day (I could only go once a day) so I need to check what's what depending on the livery type at our yard - does that make sense? If for whatever reason the horse is stabled then there's a walker that she can go in to get exercise, I can turn her out into a school for a kick about when I'm mucking out etc if I'm not riding her. She wouldn't be just stood 

Yes there are plenty of people about who will help, it's a really big yard so I know I suck at some points but there will always be someone round to ask 

The cost - I took the cost from the owner. Her livery is slightly lower than our yard so I took what our yard would charge at full livery. I'm not including lessons as I budget separately already for that 

My yard have no problems with keeping her in (providing she gets the exercise) - equally they said we can try turning out and see what happens. The whole 'keep in' had come from the current owner, not me

I've missed someone's point, I can't see it though as I'm typing on my mobile (sorry!) I'll reply when I can later and I'm on pc


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## Leo Walker (16 October 2017)

I am now totally confused! You said she is out during the day and in at night at her current yard, so thats not keeping in or living in. Most places turn out in the day time and bring it at night in the winter. Are you talking about having her in 24/7 5 days a week then chucking her out 24/7 for 2 days a week? That doesnt sound like a very sensible way to keep an older horse. A run round the school and marching round and round on a small circle on the horse walker isnt the constant gentle movement older horses tend to need and get from turnout. You may well find that she doesnt cope at all with the change from being in full time then turfed out full time over and over. Mine isnt an older horse but he would go bananas on that routine and I consider him a pretty easy going, easy to keep pony.

Why dont you go and try a few more horses and visit a few more yards to get more of a feel for what is available?


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## FestiveFuzz (16 October 2017)

I have to admit I'm also pretty confused by the proposed set up of the yard and that an experienced YO would be recommending an older horse with a novice owner would be ok with being kept in virtually 24/7, you're honestly just asking for trouble. 

From what you've said it also doesn't sound like the horse is kept in 24/7 by her current owner, more that she comes in at night which is pretty standard. You say she wouldn't just be stood in in your routine as there's a horse walker, but you wouldn't want her walking endless circles for hours, so really in the grand scheme of things she'd be standing about for a large bulk of the day which isn't really fair on any horse, let alone an older one. 

I'm hoping perhaps something has been lost in translation as I'd feel dreadfully sorry for any horse being stuck in a stable for as much time as you're suggesting.


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## sunshine100* (16 October 2017)

"it will be stabled at some point." that horse is not an it! it is an old horse who deserves love and care in her twilight years! That person IS NOT YOU! . Also your 'YO' advice should not be took as gospel...money and fool soon parted comes to mind....


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## JDH01 (17 October 2017)

There are many horses kept in over winter and well excercised who are well and healthy and sane.  We all have ideas as to what works for us and our horses and it won't be the same for everyone.  DIY doesn't work for everyone, not everyone wants or can have their horses at home and Full Livery doesn't work for others.  I think if horses can't be out 24/7 then we have a responsibility to keep them physically and mentally active and able to see and touch other horses.  Works well for mine


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## Squeak (17 October 2017)

JDH01 said:



			There are many horses kept in over winter and well excercised who are well and healthy and sane.  We all have ideas as to what works for us and our horses and it won't be the same for everyone.  DIY doesn't work for everyone, not everyone wants or can have their horses at home and Full Livery doesn't work for others.  I think if horses can't be out 24/7 then we have a responsibility to keep them physically and mentally active and able to see and touch other horses.  Works well for mine
		
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Some much needed perspective.  It sounds like you've got the horse's best interests in mind and are prepared to take advice from experienced people so you'll be fine and be able to work out what works for you and the horse.

This forum seems so cruel and judgmental at the moment   Enjoy the process of buying your first horse OP


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## Leo Walker (17 October 2017)

Squeak said:



			This forum seems so cruel and judgmental at the moment 

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Why because people have said its not ok to keep an older horse stood in 24/7 half the year with a first time owner? Or that in full time, then out full time every couple of days probably isnt a good idea. Or that the OP sounds novicey and should get some experienced help and view some more horses and yards rather than go with the first one she sees while shes swept up in the excitement of it all?

Sounds horrible cruel and judgemental!


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