# Cleveland Bay Stallion living like a Prince..



## Rollin (17 October 2017)

...in Pakistan.

My grandparents lived in what is now Pakistan, before partitionment.  My father spent his childhood there and during the second world war was posted to India.  Grandfather was an Army Riding Instructor and a champion tent pegger.  I am sure there must be descendants of the horses my grandfather rode in the horse artillery, still in Pakistan.

When pure bred Cleveland Bays were sought for Pakistan, we had a perfect candidate.  A pure bred mare by a QA stallion out of a QA pare, SPARKS compliant, i.e. not inbred.  No doubt had we offered her for sale we would have been able to name our price.  The buyers in Pakistan were looking for young pure bred mares. ( I also refused to sell this filly to Italy for the same reason0

I am delighted to say she is now with Penrose Stud in South Wales.  With fewer than 30 pure bred foals born each year it is important that we keep our breeding mares.  

So the stallion is one thing - the mares another not necessarily a cause for celebration for a critically endangered rare breed.


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## Auslander (17 October 2017)

I don't understand this post!


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## Rollin (17 October 2017)

A number of pure bred mares were also exported.  Currently fewer than 30 pure bred foals enter the stud book each year.  The buyers had some difficulty in finding breeders willing to export pure bred mares.  In the end a number were exported.  If this situation had arisen in France I am sure the national stud would have stepped in to both support the 'rare' breed and stop export of mares and stallions.


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## Auslander (17 October 2017)

Is there supposed to be a link? Still confused


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## cobgoblin (17 October 2017)

I see what you're getting at OP.

But what stallion in Pakistan? Is there some news that we are supposed to know about?


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## Alibear (17 October 2017)

Really not hard to find on the H7H home page
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/cleveland-bay-stallion-sold-pakistan-government-634949


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## Apercrumbie (17 October 2017)

It is a shame to export such a rare breed but hopefully the Pakistani government will still sell his semen? Perhaps not, but I do think it unethical to restrict access to such a rare breed.


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## Auslander (17 October 2017)

Alibear said:



			Really not hard to find on the H7H home page
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/cleveland-bay-stallion-sold-pakistan-government-634949

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If one was looking on the H&H home page perhaps. 
I find that posts about something specific are usually improved by the addition of the relevant link.


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## lozloz1 (17 October 2017)

apercrumbie said:



			It is a shame to export such a rare breed but hopefully the Pakistani government will still sell his semen? Perhaps not, but I do think it unethical to restrict access to such a rare breed.
		
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There's a comment on the facebook page for the article saying that semen from this stallion has been kept and frozen too to use in the UK


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## Mule (17 October 2017)

it's a beautiful horse. At least they have an official ceremonial role in Pakistan so there should be a lot of effort put in to keep the breed going strong.


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## LadySam (18 October 2017)

I see your point, but they're obviously either starting or improving a breeding program.  Isn't that a good thing, even if it's not in the UK?  Won't that eventually result in semen and bloodstock that can come back to the UK?  I mean, obviously Pakistan wants to breed for its own purposes, but if they're going to avoid inbreeding in such a small breeding herd they're going to have to keep working with UK breeders, occasionally swapping out breeding stock for new blood.  As long as things go both ways - and both Pakistan and the UK has a vested interest in it being that way - I don't understand why it's necessarily a bad thing for the breed.


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## GirlFriday (18 October 2017)

^ this. Especially funny (as in odd/confusing, not haha) coming from OP who herself is in France... and breeding x-breeds rather than pure CBs sometimes too iirc.


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## Leo Walker (18 October 2017)

The stallion was being used to breed sports horses in the UK and it looks like he has gone to Pakistan to breed purebreds which is surely a good thing? There doesnt appear to be a market here for pure bred cleveland bays, so if there is one abroad then thats a positive and should help keep them going as a breed.


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## LadySam (18 October 2017)

Leo Walker said:



			There doesnt appear to be a market here for pure bred cleveland bays, so if there is one abroad then thats a positive and should help keep them going as a breed.
		
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Sorry, I know I'm thread-jacking but it's pertinent - why is it that there is no market for purebred Cleveland Bays in the UK?  They're strong, hardy, generally sound, versatile, perfectly suited to the country and conditions... what's not to like?


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## Tiddlypom (18 October 2017)

They have a reputation (which may or may not be justified) of having tricky temperaments.


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## Leo Walker (18 October 2017)

No idea! I'm actually from Cleveland where they originate from and never ever saw one there. They have a reputation for being stubborn and strong willed. A friend viewed on once and it was the most pig headed, nappy creature I've ever met. A friend in this area has one, and its very similar. Obviously they wont all be like that, but if theres not many of them and the only ones you meet arent very nice, then you can see why people are put off. 

I carriage drive now and I expected to see them doing that but they are a rarity there are well. 

Most people end up with one by accident, as opposed to actually looking for a CB. I'm sure Rollin will be along to sing their praises shortly , and maybe all they need is better marketing and better examples out there actually doing things, but until that happens demand in the general public is low.


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## Batgirl (18 October 2017)

Tiddlypom said:



			They have a reputation (which may or may not be justified) of having tricky temperaments.
		
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Everyone I have known has had a tricky temperament (I know a breeder)


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## Magnetic Sparrow (18 October 2017)

I'm intrigued, Batgirl. What do you mean by 'tricky'? I'm a CB fan, so probably a bit biased. I've had part breds and now have my first pure bred. She's got character to burn and an opinion on everything, but she's in no way obstinate or difficult. She's sensible, sane and consistent. She tries really hard for me and makes me laugh when she tries to show off what she has learned once the penny has dropped when I'm teaching her something new.

The only down sides I have encountered are the huge ears (can't find a fly mask to fit) and the insatiable appetite (but that also means that I can bribe her to do anything with food).


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## Batgirl (19 October 2017)

Magnetic Sparrow said:



			I'm intrigued, Batgirl. What do you mean by 'tricky'? I'm a CB fan, so probably a bit biased. I've had part breds and now have my first pure bred. She's got character to burn and an opinion on everything, but she's in no way obstinate or difficult. She's sensible, sane and consistent. She tries really hard for me and makes me laugh when she tries to show off what she has learned once the penny has dropped when I'm teaching her something new.

The only down sides I have encountered are the huge ears (can't find a fly mask to fit) and the insatiable appetite (but that also means that I can bribe her to do anything with food).
		
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Nothing massively intriguing, they have all had quirks - spooky, opinionated, too strong for their own good.  If I wanted a draft I would not get one.  ( I suppose it is similar to the 'Warmbloods are sharp' thing, it just comes down to what you come across, I livery with a Wb breeder and they are all calm as anything 9uinclding my own who if he weren't 17"2 could be an RDA horse)


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## fburton (19 October 2017)

My TB Lucky's half-brother was a Cleveland Bay x. I spent many hours with him when he was a stallion and he had a great temperament, quite sensible really and no unpleasant quirks.


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## ester (19 October 2017)

LadySam said:



			Sorry, I know I'm thread-jacking but it's pertinent - why is it that there is no market for purebred Cleveland Bays in the UK?  They're strong, hardy, generally sound, versatile, perfectly suited to the country and conditions... what's not to like?
		
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you are going to really have to want one though, to hunt one out, there are so few about- I think its a bit swings and roundabouts. 

(you missed off good colour  )


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## MotherOfChickens (19 October 2017)

LadySam said:



			Sorry, I know I'm thread-jacking but it's pertinent - why is it that there is no market for purebred Cleveland Bays in the UK?  They're strong, hardy, generally sound, versatile, perfectly suited to the country and conditions... what's not to like?
		
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They do have a rep for being a bit stubborn and the few I've known have been nappy and backward thinking but thats a very small sample, they are handsome horses. 
I think its fashion sadly, as horsey types get more and more numptyish, they are less able to cope with native breeds-whatever the size. I keep an Exmoor and you should hear what some people say about them! But also I think that people who are a fan of a certain breed either enjoy or work with the breed's foibles (and therefore dont really see them as foibles). Now, as ester points out, you are going to really have to go and find one and there are horses that are just easier to find on your doorstep.


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## Clodagh (19 October 2017)

They only come in 'brown'!
 I have always heard they are stubborn, but then so are most natives, as MOC says people prefer amenable trainable temperments over everything else nowadays, anything that 'thinks' is a negative.
My OH's first wife had a part bred and he had a great temperament, stubborn and intelligent is generally good for being a hunter.


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## frankster (19 October 2017)

Mine was a little quirky and a tad stubborn...


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## Chuffy99 (25 October 2017)

Friend had a part bred and he was her horse of a lifetime, he was so generous and game well into his thirties


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## Leo Walker (25 October 2017)

So the moral of this story is get a part bred! :biggrin3:


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## Magnetic Sparrow (25 October 2017)

Leo Walker said:



			So the moral of this story is get a part bred! :biggrin3:
		
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The only flaw in your reasoning is that we need pure breds to breed part breds....

(I wanted to put a friendly smiley to be sure it was clear I'm not trying to be rude - where have the smileys gone?)


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## Leo Walker (25 October 2017)

Course we do, but they dont have to live with amateur riders who want a nice pleasure horse. However I was being a bit facetious.

I manually type the smileys in, I actually dont know where they live now!


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