# Freelander 1.8 petrol for towing ???????????????



## PLAYBOY (2 November 2007)

Hello I`m looking around for new cars and have got my eye on a new kia but i dnt think i can get one untill next year , Somebody has offered me a really neat freelander 1.8 petrol for the mean time at a nice price with low miles x Somebody at work told me you can only tow one horse with one of those which is fine for me for the time been i just wondered if anybody else had towed with a freelander 1.8 petrol i only have the small double ifor willliams xx 
thanks sam


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## Scoopy (2 November 2007)

Watch your weight, i bet the 1.8 wont tow the weight !

Oh and i hate freelanders they fall apart ........ sorry


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## spaniel (2 November 2007)

Absolutely not.  They arent up to towing one horse let alone 2 and I would never consider towing in anything under a 2.5, nice offer but give it a wide berth.


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## JM07 (2 November 2007)

are you going camping?

becuase it will just about pull a trailer tent!!!


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## PaddyMonty (2 November 2007)

Only thing I've towed with a freelander is a glider trailer.  That only can to about 600kg.  I certainly wouldn't want to try anything much over that from a safety point of view.
Its too light and the wheel base is too short


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## JM07 (2 November 2007)

check out page 21 H&amp;H.....

Trailer safety...

point 1...

NEVER TOW WITH A CAR UNDER 2.5 LITRES.


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## arwenplusone (2 November 2007)

Totally agree JM07 - it is bloody dangerous.

OP - I would also be worried about the Kia- I don't know much about them but without wanting to appear rude they are a cheap alternative and I would triple check the towing capabilities


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## Sneedy (2 November 2007)

Don't do it!!  My mum had one (not for towing) and it was the most underpowered car I think I have ever driven.  Certainly no way you can tow a live load with one!
Look at Discos, defenders, Troopers, Shogun....any of the 'proper' workhorses that are designed for the job!


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## JM07 (2 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]

Totally agree JM07 - it is bloody dangerous.

OP - I would also be worried about the Kia- I don't know much about them but without wanting to appear rude they are a cheap alternative and I would triple check the towing capabilities 

[/ QUOTE ]

the Kia Sorrento's are hefty pieces of kit..should be quite capable...but NOT a Kia Sportage.


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## pottamus (2 November 2007)

No no no! Get yourself a nice Nissan Terrano...can pick them up real cheap and great work horses...go for the 2.7 diesel manual...brill car.


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## PLAYBOY (2 November 2007)

i pull it with a frontera sport 2.2 at the mo with 2 horses in fine i can not have a big engine as i am 19 and cannot get insured , i was looking at kia sportage 2.00 and the towing weight for 1.8 freelander is 2tonne !


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## Wishful (2 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
check out page 21 H&amp;H.....

Trailer safety...

point 1...

NEVER TOW WITH A CAR UNDER 2.5 LITRES. 

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't see why engine size is relevant to the safety of towing.  What is relevant is the power (bhp) and most of all the torque of the car (for getting things moving anyway). For stopping purposes, you need the car to weigh more than the trailer.

For example (ignoring issues like weight as we're talking about going, not stopping), my car, a 2.5 v6 petrol has marginally more bhp, but a lot less torque than my OH's 2.2 diesel.  The diesel would be the better tow car because of the better torque.  Neither will ever be used to tow as both would be too light.

Diesels are generally torquier than petrols, so will always be better tow cars, but in general, for towing you need something with plenty of torque - top speed is irrelevant, you will not get near it towing (I hope).

Also 3l engine tuned in the way an old style American car is has less torque than most current 1.8 diesels. 

Or am I being blonde and engine size is more important than actual moving power.


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## JM07 (2 November 2007)

i had a 4 yr old Sportage and it couldnt pull a camping trailer full with garden waste comfortably uphill..at one point i was in second gear doing 10 mph!!!!!

for the safety of yourself and other road users, dont try and tow a horse trailer with it, it would be a very scary experience indeed! especially downhill.......
i also wouldn't reccomend towing with anything SWB either.


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## Benjamin (2 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]

i also wouldn't reccomend towing with anything SWB either. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? Just interested....


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## Nats_uk (2 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
check out page 21 H&amp;H.....

Trailer safety...

point 1...

NEVER TOW WITH A CAR UNDER 2.5 LITRES. 

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that only works with the bigger Ifors. My friend has a 505 and tows her 16.1 Irish horse with a 1.6 Sierra and I know someone else who tows a 505 (including 16.2 MW gelding) with a 1.6/1.8 car.

I was told that for my 510 you should always have a car with a long wheel base and it should be 2.5 diesel or 3 litre petrol but my horse is a 16.3hh warmblood and I will normally be towing me and a friend's 16.3hh ISH


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## JM07 (2 November 2007)

They are too "upright" IMO.

my mechanic advised against a short wheel base when i was looking for a 4X4...said in had something to do with lack of balance, gravital pull etc.

i went for a LWB shogun.....tows ifors/wessex with 2 x 17.2s easily.


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## Honeypots (2 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
i also wouldn't reccomend towing with anything SWB either. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? 
	
	
		
		
	


	





I tow with a SWB 2.5TD Shogun Auto...it tows really well and I have some serious hills to go up and down!!


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## JM07 (2 November 2007)

as i said above, it was taken on the advice of a commercial mechanic because of the work i do.


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## Sneedy (2 November 2007)

Its frightnening to hear that people are towing with 1.6 and 1.8 cars, its an accident waiting to happen and really freaks me out when I see this.
All it takes is a gust of wind, a big lorry overtaking or the horse to have a paddy for the trailer to start moving, the car will not stand a chance of getting the driver out of any trouble. 
As you can see I feel really strongly about this.  We love our horses so surely we owe it to them to put them into a safe 'set up' when moving them on the roads???


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## JM07 (2 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
check out page 21 H&amp;H.....

Trailer safety...

point 1...

NEVER TOW WITH A CAR UNDER 2.5 LITRES. 

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that only works with the bigger Ifors. My friend has a 505 and tows her 16.1 Irish horse with a 1.6 Sierra and I know someone else who tows a 505 (including 16.2 MW gelding) with a 1.6/1.8 car.



[/ QUOTE ]


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## Sneedy (2 November 2007)

LWB are much better 'towers', they give a better ride for the horses.  I wouldn't say SWB are useless as they are not, I've towed with SWB Defenders and they are fine, it probably depends which make of vehicle you go for whether it is LWB or SWB


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## Ludi-doodi (2 November 2007)

NO NO NO NO NO NO !!!  Haven't reaad the other replies, but I nearly killed the very same vehicle by towing too much!  If you have a very light weight trailer and a light weight pony/horse, then may be, but be very careful (learn from my very expensive mistake!)


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## Wishful (2 November 2007)

But why would a 2.5 with less power (and particularly torque) than a 1.8 diesel be more able to get the driver out of trouble?  That's what I don't understand.

I could understand saying "don't tow a horse box with a car with less than x bhp and y newton metres of torque".  I don't understand what then engine capacity has to do with it.

For example. My car is a 2.5 and has 167 bhp. The BMW 520i  has 170 bhp (and a 2.2 engine).  A toyota celica has 189 bhp with a 1.8 engine.  Of these 3, the one with the smallest engine has the most power to pull you out of trouble if necessary.  Obviously none of these cars are heavy enough to tow with, they could make it go but would have trouble stopping!

Can't find torque figures online - not a car geek

But still not understanding why engine size is so relevant.


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## Tempi (2 November 2007)

personally i wouldnt be worried about killing the vehicle from towing too much, more like killing the horse you are towing


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## Tinypony (2 November 2007)

KIA sportage is your ideal vehicle for towing modest sized caravans, it isn't promoted as a heavy duty towing vehicle.  I had one and it was great as a small 4WD, and it towed my empty trailer safely and legally.
The Sorento however is a serious piece of kit, I think it won What Car towing car of the year in 2006.  So if I was buying to tow again I'd definitely check it out,  because with KIA's you get a lot of car for your money.
Freelander 1.8 - forget it.  Forget it being a 1.8 or a 2.5 or whatever, it just doesn't have the capacity to be legal.


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## pottamus (2 November 2007)

It amazes me how many people seem to think it is the size of the engine that matters...from a safety point of view rather than towing...it is about the weight of the vehicle you are towing with. If you tow with a car or light weight 4x4 (Rav, Freelander etc) the car is not heavey enough to be safe, so if there is an issue with the trailer whilst towing the trailer will start very rapidly to dictate the direction of travel over the car because the car is not weighty enough to keep things in line. The trailer will just take over and you will end up in serious trouble.
It does not matter about swb and lwb vehicles so long as the vehicle is up to the job. I use a Terrano quite happily because they are built on a steel chassis and solid as a rock...they are megga heavey and therefore safe for towing with...in addition having a 2.7 diesel engine means it tows with ease up the steepest of hills.
People towing horses with any sort of 'car' should be pulled by the police and have their licence taken off them...it is a short cut that endangers themselves, horses and everyone around them.


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## ru-fi-do (2 November 2007)

No don't do it, I have one for sale at the moment, we towed with it once in an emergency, it managed it but with a struggle luckily we didn't have to go far. We tow with a Range rover at the moment , I know they are not everyones cup of tea but I find it gives a nice drive. Someone on our yard tows with a 2.0l xzantia(sp) citreon car, that scares me!


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## brighteyes (2 November 2007)

Time someone did a sticky about this.  Police should be out pulling people up who are towing horse trailers with anything that can't pull 3 tonnes without noticing.  End of.  Hmph.

Google the car's spec. If the max tow weight is less than the gross laden weight of your trailer FORGET IT.


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## Toby_Zaphod (2 November 2007)

This is a chart of towing weights etc.......don't go by the overall towing weight which is massively over the weight of the vehicle. The best &amp; safest guide is to look at the 85% column &amp; that will give you a realistic figure you can safely tow with the vehicle you are looing at.

http://www.cuddles.abelgratis.net/kerbweights.htm

By this chart, a freelander 1.8 has a safe towing capacity of 1240kg. An Ifor Williams 505 ulw is 905 kg, which leaves you only 335kg for your horse &amp; that weight barely allows for a pony  
	
	
		
		
	


	




 A freelander doesn't really have the power to do the job.


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## BeckyD (2 November 2007)

As Caravan Club's tow car of the year in the heaviest towing bracket for god knows how many years, I don't think you need to worry about a Kia Sorento.  They can tow 3 tonnes, and they weigh 2100kg so can tow 1750kg safely (85% kerbweight), which is easily a trailer and one horse.  With a light trailer you could get two horses in there (but not much equipment).

Can you tell I'm picking up my Sorento next week?!   
	
	
		
		
	


	





Cheap they may be,lacking in grunt they are not.  

Depends whether you're a badge snob really!


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## Alimac19 (2 November 2007)

Hmm.  Looking into this it just dosn't make sense.  One person says that you shouldn't use a SWB but according to the website posted above my SWB Cherokee (2.8CRD) is 2140Kg which gives and 85% weight of 1819Kg.  HOWEVER the LWB with a much bigger engine Grand Cherokee 4.7 V8 weighs 2073Kg giving an 85% weight of 1762Kg.  This makes the LWB ligher than the SWB which sort of blows one theory out of the window.

Secondly the equitrek trailers which are fantastic but as we all know equite heavy start at 2600Kg for the Space Trekka, 3000Kg for the Space Trekka and 3500Kg gorss for the Star Trekka.  According to the 85% rule then you wouldn't be able to pull any of these with the exception of the Space Trekka with anything at all as even the Range Rover4.2 V8 only has an 85% weight of 2186Kg!!!

They wouldn't be able to liscence, marjet and sell the trailer if it wasn't approved for use on the road.  Arn't we all forgetting the added inplications of the number of axles on the trailer and the brakes!?!?  I know we also have a boat which is 21 foot and my SWB Cherokke tows, launched and recovers on a shingle beach with no problems, only trouble is that it has a single axel whihc can make it a bit unstable at higher speeds.  Most of the time tough we tow it with a transit van!


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## Alimac19 (2 November 2007)

Found it!!!!!

The government regulations for the max weight of trailers and towing vehicles.  Apparently there is no regulation in the UK with regards to the weight of the trailer in relation to the weight of the towing vehicle!!
See the webite:  http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/vehicles/vssafety/requirementsfortrailers


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## JM07 (2 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
Hmm.  Looking into this it just dosn't make sense.  One person says that you shouldn't use a SWB but according to the website posted above my SWB Cherokee (2.8CRD) is 2140Kg which gives and 85% weight of 1819Kg.  HOWEVER the LWB with a much bigger engine Grand Cherokee 4.7 V8 weighs 2073Kg giving an 85% weight of 1762Kg.  This makes the LWB ligher than the SWB which sort of blows one theory out of the window.

Secondly the equitrek trailers which are fantastic but as we all know equite heavy start at 2600Kg for the Space Trekka, 3000Kg for the Space Trekka and 3500Kg gorss for the Star Trekka.  According to the 85% rule then you wouldn't be able to pull any of these with the exception of the Space Trekka with anything at all as even the Range Rover4.2 V8 only has an 85% weight of 2186Kg!!!

They wouldn't be able to liscence, marjet and sell the trailer if it wasn't approved for use on the road.  Arn't we all forgetting the added inplications of the number of axles on the trailer and the brakes!?!?  I know we also have a boat which is 21 foot and my SWB Cherokke tows, launched and recovers on a shingle beach with no problems, only trouble is that it has a single axel whihc can make it a bit unstable at higher speeds.  Most of the time tough we tow it with a transit van! 

[/ QUOTE ]

i didnt say you "shouldnt" tow with a SWB,,I was advised not to.


and as it is illegal to tow horses in a single axle trailer that is irrelevant.


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## Toby_Zaphod (2 November 2007)

Alimac....that's agreed, but we aren't talking about law here, we are talking about trying to do a journey with a trailer &amp; getting there &amp; back safely. Sometimes common sense is more important than the law.


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## Tinypony (2 November 2007)

Until you get pulled over by the police I suppose..


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## Puppy (3 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
Sometimes common sense is more important than the law. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Common sense says that if you aren't within the law, and you cause an accident, you are going to be in big trouble


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## Puppy (3 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
i pull it with a frontera sport 2.2 at the mo with 2 horses in fine i can not have a big engine as i am 19 and cannot get insured , i was looking at kia sportage 2.00 and the towing weight for 1.8 freelander is 2tonne !  

[/ QUOTE ]

Playboy, have you passed your towing test?


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## Blackhawk (3 November 2007)

Ditto Puppy, plus could you get insured on a 2.5?


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## kildalton (3 November 2007)

now that scares me. My 2.0 litre Peugeot (same engine as the Xantia) can  hardly move itself, never mind tow anything!


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## Tinypony (3 November 2007)

Playboy, have a look at this link and find your car.  It looks to me as if, depending on model, you can only tow about 1500 KG - trailer with two horses will weigh much more than that.  http://www.cuddles.abelgratis.net/vauxhall.htm
In general - surely if we are towing our precious horses around our main considerations should be for the safety of ourselves, our horses, and other road users?  Not how close we can squeeze the towing capacity of the car and get away with it?  When I towed my trailer I had capacity to spare (Isuzu Trooper).  Yep, it cost a lot to run, yep it drank a lot of diesel and yep it was a beast, but at least I felt I had some safety margin should I get into trouble any time. 
I can't bear to come back to this discussion any more, it's scarey.


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## Sooty (3 November 2007)

Plus the fact that towing a heavy, unstable moving load is a lot different from towing a caravan. If you want to tow an overweight trailer with an underpowered car, don't complain when the trailer pushes the car downhill and the result is a serious accident.


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## Albertina (3 November 2007)

I wouldn't waste my money on a Freelander let alone for towing, they have so many problems, headgaskets, gearbox.....all not cheap to have repaired don't go there.

As for towing a horse box with one  
	
	
		
		
	


	




 NEVER!


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## Ferdinase514 (3 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
i pull it with a frontera sport 2.2 at the mo with 2 horses in fine i can not have a big engine as i am 19 and cannot get insured , i was looking at kia sportage 2.00 and the towing weight for 1.8 freelander is 2tonne !  

[/ QUOTE ]

Firstly, how are you towing if you are 19? You have to be 21 to take the test.

Secondly, The Freelander 1.8 can theoretically tow 2 tons, but you should not exceed the kerb weight of the vehicle with the trailer - 1427kg. and it is not recommended you exceed 85% of the kerb weight - 1212kg.

A Ifor 505 weighs 950kg and a 510 1000kg. Does not leave enough for a horse.

http://www.cuddles.abelgratis.net/landrover.htm

The frontera is better - kerb weight of 1706kg - 85%= 1450kg
The Kia is 1513kg kerb weight - 85% = 1286kg

Even with the Frontera, you should only tow 1 horse, based on the kerb weight and you shouldnt be towing anyhting without having taken the test!


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