# Basic Questions



## [146606] (25 July 2020)

Hi all,

I've recently (approx a month ago) returned to riding after being in the saddle maybe 3 times over the past 15 odd years. I've been having weekly private lessons since. I'm having a few issues that I don't remember having when I used to ride as a kid.

The horse I currently ride likes to take things as easy as possible! The instructor asked me to get a schooling whip and this has helped but I still constantly have to kick (instructor tells me to). When we are trotting or cantering, I can constantly feel the horse trying to slow down and this is throwing me forwards in the saddle and the stirrup slips to the arch of my foot instead of the ball when I kick to keep him moving. Same issue when we slow from trot to walk and if we go from canter to walk (the second isn't intentional, it's his new favourite thing to do and I've been very close to flying over his head a few times which I really don't want to do as he's 16hh!). I don't have an issue with the canter to trot transition (on the occasion he actually does this). When he tries to slow, the instructor says to kick and bringing my leg back to do that seems to throw me further forward. We've been doing trotting poles and he does his best to avoid them by stepping sideways and regularly tries to slow to a walk mid pole.

Another aspect (and the one that worries me more to be honest) is that the horse rides really close to the arena fence and my foot gets whacked against the railings. The instructor says to kick with my outside leg and pull sideways with the inside rein but when he's so close to the fence, I can't really kick as my leg feels trapped. She tells me to kick with the outside leg as he'll move away from it but at the same time tells me to tap with my whip (inside hand) so isn't this going to confuse the poor horse?

Does anyone have any advice or tips etc? The instructor says that he acts this way with everyone and that I ride him better than a lot of others and she doesn't want me to try another horse yet as he's the safest. I will be moving house in a couple of months so will be moving riding schools then but want to make the most of my remaining lessons here. Is my instructor telling me the correct things to do? I know I'm sure to be making lots of mistakes in the saddle but I want to make sure I'm breaking any bad habits and not picking up any new ones! I think I'd benefit from a few lessons of hammering the extreme basics like steering and how to correctly use aids as things seem to have changed a lot since I learned to ride (I was only ever shown to steer with reins only for example) but I was cantering (in a very hunched position) in my first lesson. I feel like the more I kick, the more I fall forward which slows the horse down which causes me to need to kick more and the circle goes on! I also find it hard to focus on how I'm sitting and using my aids when my main thought is trying to stop the fence Chopping my leg off! 

Thanks everyone


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## SaddlePsych'D (25 July 2020)

Not much in the way of tips from me as I'm a novice myself (but also returned to riding in the last couple of months). One thing I found was how much my hips were struggling in the first few lessons. I wonder if it just takes a bit of time for the relevant muscles to get used to working again if they've not been used in the same way as they are for riding for a while. It might be subtle but I wonder if that could contribute to thing being a bit trickier in terms of balance etc?

I have also been riding a horse that takes a lot to get going and it can be really hard work! I've also experienced the foot in the fence thing, I think my instructor said this is a way of the horse 'evading' so the push with the outside leg is to move him away from the fence and the tap with the whip is to get the going forwards (is my guess, hopefully someone with the appropriate knowledge will correct me if I've got it wrong!). 

Hope you're enjoying getting back in to things, I've found myself well and truly bitten by the riding 'bug' again very quickly!


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## Lex2009 (25 July 2020)

My first horse was like that I had to completely retrained her but I completely understand  your struggle. To me he sounds that he shouldn’t be a riding school horse .


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## [146606] (25 July 2020)

Thanks both.

I think the falling forward is maybe some weakness in that I can't correct my movement quick enough to keep sitting upright. My bum stays in the saddle, it's from the waist and up I seem to be falling forward over his neck and end up having to put my hands on his neck to push back up. Similar feeling to when you brake in the car and if its too sudden, you get thrown forwards, if that makes sense? I see some core work in my future! I think my balance is reasonably ok. First lesson back she had someone lead him to keep him in a fast trot and I could do a rising trot with my arms held up and out to the side. Maybe it's the reins that are pulling me forward? I forgot how technical it all is! 

The instructor said he pushes everyone's leg against the wall because most people tend to slow down when he does that so he can chill out in walk again.

He's the most popular horse in the school (probably because he's an absolute beauty and is really slow so more nervous riders won't end up going faster than they want). I agree though he might not be the most appropriate school horse (or maybe should be kept for either the real beginners who will just walk or the more advanced riders that won't take any nonsense! Most of the time she has to run around the arena after him with a lunge whip in addition to my whip and constant legs. I feel sorry for him, I think he's just bored. He's constantly in lessons. Apparently on a hack he's a different horse and gets very excited and wants to gallop off!

If he was my horse I'd love him, I think he just needs some training to respond to what the rider wants (but they're obviously somewhat restricted on the school as if he is too responsive you end up with a kiddie on the ground!). He's a bit too smart for his own good too, if I stop in the same place a couple of times (or take off into canter from a spot a few times), he will do the same thing next time he passes the spot, whether he's asked or not!

I'm loving being back in the saddle (glad you are too) , I think I'm just finding it quite frustrating that I think I'm doing what I'm being told and he isn't responding. I eventually got him away from the fence today but feel like I've slipped a disc from the effort of it!


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## Meowy Catkin (25 July 2020)

IMO all this 'kick, kick, kick' with a horse that sounds dead to the leg is just awful.

I would ask about a more forwards horse that you can actually learn to ride rather than be taught how to nag and bully. If they don't have anything that isn't school sour or dead to the leg, I'd be looking at an alternative riding school.


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## [146606] (25 July 2020)

Thank you. Yeah I don't enjoy doing it (to be honest, there's probably not much force from me when I kick as I'm not strong enough yet so that's probably a positive in this case). I will be moving to a new riding school in the next month or two anyway but wasn't sure if the issue was just me not being good enough yet. I do find it hard to work on the basics when all my time is spent on trying to make him move and stay away from the fence! I've asked about the other horses and she said to stick with this one for now. I think she's mistaking my lack of recent experience for nerves. I'm not actually nervous, I'm just struggling to focus on a million things at once when I'm effectively a complete beginner.


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## shortstuff99 (25 July 2020)

Even the best rider in the world often looks terrible on a horse which is absolutely dead to the leg, you will always find it difficult to improve on a horse like this. Once you move onto a more forward going horse you will find it a lot easier.


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## [146606] (25 July 2020)

I hope so! It's just making me a bit paranoid that I'm completely useless!


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## Surbie (25 July 2020)

If you're having to constantly wallop him with your legs and the instructor is running behind with a lunge whip I would be asking for another horse. It's not fun for you or him, it's a waste of money & time.

Also just wondering if your stirrups are slipping when you move your legs, could you possibly be riding too long at the moment?


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## [146606] (25 July 2020)

I thought they might be too long (maybe by just one hole) but the right is on the shortest and the left has had to have a twist in it as even on the shortest, it was too long. I'm only 5'4'' and have very short legs in comparison to torso so I think they'd need new stirrup leathers for me! I struggle to keep my heels down unless I'm actively thinking about it.


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## shortstuff99 (25 July 2020)

Re-rider said:



			I thought they might be too long (maybe by just one hole) but the right is on the shortest and the left has had to have a twist in it as even on the shortest, it was too long. I'm only 5'4'' and have very short legs in comparison to torso so I think they'd need new stirrup leathers for me! I struggle to keep my heels down unless I'm actively thinking about it.
		
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Those must be some very long stirrup leathers, I'm shorter then you and it's easy to find leathers that fit. I think when you find a better riding school the improvement will be massive.


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## [146606] (25 July 2020)

This might be a very stupid question but would they be longer because of his size? 

I am looking forward to getting on a more forward horse. I'm not afraid of a bit of zip in a horse, im comfortable with that. It's when horses slam on the brakes that I'm more likely to go splat!


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## shortstuff99 (25 July 2020)

Re-rider said:



			This might be a very stupid question but would they be longer because of his size?

I am looking forward to getting on a more forward horse. I'm not afraid of a bit of zip in a horse, im comfortable with that. It's when horses slam on the brakes that I'm more likely to go splat!
		
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No they wouldn't need to be longer because of his size which means they could swap to find one that fits you.


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## Surbie (25 July 2020)

You're 5'4 with short legs and they have put you on a reluctant 16hh horse?They don't have anything of a more suitable height? It sounds an odd place.


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## [146606] (25 July 2020)

There a few horses they use for new riders, all a similar size. (They have ponies for the kids). From watching a few lessons, all the horses seem quite reluctant. I don't mind the height as such, its like being on a rocking horse when I eventually get him going.

I'll definitely be moving stables soon, just trying to make the most of the remaining lessons I have here. If anyone has any advice on how to stop falling forward and risk of leg amputation in particular, that would be great. I'd like to go to my next school not feeling entirely useless haha


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## Shay (25 July 2020)

Although the horse doesn't make either issue easier - the fault is the rider.  I do completely agree that a riding school horse can be difficult to get going.  They have learned every trick in the book to get out of work, and no one would blame them for it.

See if you can get individual lunge lessons.  If you can get your lower leg stable and your core enagaged that will deal with much of the tipping forward (some is nerves - that happens) It you don't have to worry about pace or direction you can work on getting yourself into better shape to get more out of your horse.

You need to do loads of work without stirrups and standing straight up in the stirrups to get your sense of balance and control of the lower leg.  Once you have that strength you won't tip forward and you'll have the leg strength to keep him off the wall.  
Changing an RS won't change those things about you.  That's about hours in the saddle and what you do outside of riding to improve things like core strength  But it might change the range of horses available and the qualtiy of instruction.


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## [146606] (25 July 2020)

Thank you. The lunge is a good idea. I definitely agree that a more advanced rider could get him going. I feel maybe the instructor has just skipped the basics and moved too fast. I know a lot of people might not be, but I'd be quite happy to have the basics hammered before doing anything more exciting!


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## Auslander (26 July 2020)

I'd also be inclined to see if your remaining lessons could be lunge lessons, as it doesn't sound like you're going to achieve much/anything on this particular horse/at this particular yard.
Handy hint ref the leg squishing - if you turn the horse's head TOWARDS the wall, his body will swing away from the wall, and you won't get your leg squished.


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## SBJT (26 July 2020)

Auslander said:



			I'd also be inclined to see if your remaining lessons could be lunge lessons, as it doesn't sound like you're going to achieve much/anything on this particular horse/at this particular yard.
Handy hint ref the leg squishing - if you turn the horse's head TOWARDS the wall, his body will swing away from the wall, and you won't get your leg squished.
		
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I was just thinking of using the outside rein too in order to block this. I wouldn’t want a huge amount of outside rein but just enough.


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## [146606] (26 July 2020)

Thank you. I'd done some reading up and saw that turning the horses head towards the fence should automatically move his backside out but the instructor said to do the opposite 🤦‍♀️I'll have a chat with her next week and see how we get on.


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## Auslander (26 July 2020)

SBJT said:



			I was just thinking of using the outside rein too in order to block this. I wouldn’t want a huge amount of outside rein but just enough.
		
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I'd use as much as i needed to, if a horse was trying to scrape me off on the fence! I find they are far less keen to do so if their nose is nearer the fence than my leg!


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## Auslander (26 July 2020)

OP - your instructors advice to use your outside leg to push the horse off the fence is essentially correct, but requires the horse to be sufficiently well schooled/listening to move off your leg when you ask. Most/many riding school horses aren't, so you need to deploy more cunning tactics to outwit them!


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## [146606] (26 July 2020)

I'm sure he plots how to have the laziest day possible 😂


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## Wishfilly (26 July 2020)

Personally, I wouldn't put a 5'4'' adult returning to riding on a 16hh horse that needs lots of leg- and especially not if I thought they were nervous! Obviously shorter riders can ride larger horses effectively, but it is harder and if your legs are not very effective, it's often easier on a smaller horse/pony to get them in the right place and really working. Assuming you're not very heavy, could you ask if any of the ponies would be suitable to try? I'm the same height as you, although I do have short legs for my height, and I'm much happier/more effective on something about 14hh! I think some instructors worry that adults will feel insulted if given a pony to ride- but I do think it might be easier for you.

I honestly think, even though you are moving soon, that it may be worth looking for another yard, with a wider range of horses to ride and a different instructor? Sometimes some yards/instructors/horses are not a good fit, and you may end up just getting more frustrated over the next few months!


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## SBJT (26 July 2020)

Auslander said:



			I'd use as much as i needed to, if a horse was trying to scrape me off on the fence! I find they are far less keen to do so if their nose is nearer the fence than my leg!
		
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 True. I imagine the instructor is against this as they’re worried OP might not have enough experience to know how much (no offence intended OP).

If they try this and are dead to the leg I’d probably also ride with a whip in my outside had so when they did it I’d give them a sharp tap and leave them alone, but this horse sounds already past that point. Unfortunately this is why I really don’t like riding school horses any more.

OP the option to ride on a lunge line will help with balance for now and there’s no shame in that. It can be really good for you. At least you don’t have too long to move onto a new school.


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## oldie48 (26 July 2020)

TBF to the RS, it is really hard to keep horses suitable for novices from becoming school sour but this one sounds as if he needs a change of job. Do you use a schooling whip or a short one? I'd carry a schooling whip on the outside and as SBJT suggests, if he ignores your leg asking him to move his hindquarters away from the wall, give him a sharp tap. It is a really vile habit and if you carry your whip on the outside, he might think twice about it (or possibly not). It is also very difficult to keep a good position on a horse that you are having to work so hard on but I wonder if the saddle is tipping your forward. Next time before you mount have a look to check that the saddle is sitting level, no point in beating yourself up if the saddle isn't helping you! Same with "no stirrup" work, I wouldn't try it on a lazy horse unless on the lunge, nothing worse that trying to kick like hell and keep your balance! Different and better RS should help you to progress. Good luck, it's very frustrating but stick to it and you'll get there.


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## [146606] (26 July 2020)

Thanks all (ps no offence taken from any comments 😊)

So I decided at the last minute today to go on a hack with a different stables. They mainly do hacks but also do a few lessons. They're too far for me to go every week but I fancied a bit of a road trip today! I was put on a 14.1/14.2 horse, very forward. As it was a hack, the horses pretty much knew where they were going so I hung near the back so I didn't need to worry about steering etc, I just wanted to get a bit more time in the saddle without having to worry about a million different things! It really really helped. We did a lot of trotting and cantering (it was 2 hours) and my posture was pretty good, no falling forwards (apart from the initial few minutes while I got used to the horses gaits, I'm not used to riding so small so it felt quite choppy at first!). I did lose one stirrup at one point (I was adjusting my foot position when the leader started cantering and all the horses followed and mine would not stop for anything 😂). I stayed on with just the one stirrup and I was pretty happy with that given how negative I was feeling yesterday!

I still prefer a bigger horse, I just find it more comfy, but being on a more forward horse felt so much better. I understand I will need to work so that I'm able to ride any horse but it has helped boost my confidence in my ability a bit 😊

I think ill stick with the current school for now as there aren't that many in my area and I should be moving quite soon (hopefully) but I'll definitely speak to my instructor about the suggestions on here 😊

P. S. It's a schooling whip I use.


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## Wishfilly (26 July 2020)

Sounds like you had a really good experience today. Riding a pony will definitely feel different to riding a horse, but they can be a lot of fun.

If you just want to have fun as a leisure rider, then I don't think it's required to be able to ride any horse- it's fine to have a preference for something more forward going!

Maybe I'd talk about this experience to your instructor and see if they have anything else you can try riding?


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## [146606] (26 July 2020)

It was definitely a good experience. Don't get me wrong, there was absolutely an "oh sh*t" moment when he wouldn't stop mid canter when I had lost the stirrup but I put my big girl pants on and stopped panicking and that has helped me feel a lot more comfortable in my ability. I'll chat to my instructor about it, it might make her realise that it's not a forward horse I'm scared off, it's flying over the head of a horse that slams on the breaks 😂 I think what I need is a horse in between these two. Just like everyone else in the world i want about 15hh ish, forward but listens and safe!


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## violaparkinson (28 July 2020)

Nice basic question.


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## [146606] (28 July 2020)

violaparkinson said:



			Nice basic question.
		
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👍🏻


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## HazuraJane (2 August 2020)

Full disclosure: I have not read all the responses. 
Having said that, can your instructor put the horse on the lunge line and keep it moving while you ride?
Also, if you are not strong in your core, it can cause you to collapse forward at transitions.


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## Henry02 (5 August 2020)

To help with the core try Pilates and yoga


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## Keith_Beef (5 August 2020)

Try this exercise.

Ride along the centre line of the arena (get away from the boundary fence), and take a kind of snake-like path. But don't turn the horse so that it is along the line, try to get it to always face straight to the other side of the arena... Press your right leg against the right flank, and at the same time put more weight in your left stirrup; the horse should move laterally to the left while still moving ahead. Then do the opposite: left leg against the left flank, and at the same time put more weight in your right stirrup.

Making your horse move to the side like this is not just useful for moving it away from the fence so that you don't whack your foot against the poles, but also to move to avoid manhole covers or low branches.


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## [146606] (6 August 2020)

Thanks all. Past few lessons have been better, horse is still being really lazy (I still think he's great and think he'd make a wonderful privately owned horse as I think he's just bored) but my position is improving and the instructor is happy with how I'm doing. He's stopped trying to amputate my legs as much too which is progress. I'm somewhat restricted in what exercises I can do as it's at a riding school so I have to follow what the instructor asks me to do but we're getting there.


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