# What about Treats?



## Natti (15 February 2013)

Hey guys, just wondering what people here think about giving your horses treats? I personally don't because Phoenix has recently stopped being too pushy and to give her them would upset the whole process. However she knows that there will always be one or two polos/slice of carrot/sugar cube in her feed and so she doesn't come looking for them. So do you give your horses treats? Or if not why not? I'm just curious, as for some reason this seems to be a hotly debated subject among people just now


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## soulfull (16 February 2013)

I give 2 polis after I've ridden. But that's all.    I really think it makes a lot of horses bargy and nippy, some are extremely rude!!
Then of course every time you put your hand in your pocket they are after treats. Makes things like plaiting more difficult


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## GLW (16 February 2013)

I sometimes put a few in her feed but the only time I treat by hand is as I'm leaving. Really I don't think we should treat by hand at all as it tends to make horses a bit "grabby" but I can't help myself! I justify it because she doesn't associate my arrival with treats and so far she doesn't try to mug me, doesn't kick the door, etc. etc. If she started being a cow about it I would have to stop.

Other people on the yard do treat and sometimes ask if they can give one to my girl, I always let them even though it breaks my rule! Again, no negative behaviour so far, but if anything started I would stop the treating. When I join lessons the instructors often give the horses a polo at the end of the lesson so she gets a treat then...

So, what I'm actually saying is she gets treated by hand all the time! It hasn't caused any problems so far but if it did I would put a stop to it.


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## allyy (16 February 2013)

Ben has a treat after he's ridden, a carrot in his dinner, and he gets treats when he's doing his stretches twice a week


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## Dry Rot (16 February 2013)

No treats here. None. Not ever.

On the other hand, I reward. Often. Copiously. But they have to earn it!

No such thing as a free lunch around here!

Frankly. I think giving treats is a bit short sighted when it could so easily be turned into a reward. For example, for allowing me to take hold of a foal's head collar, it gets a slice of carrot. It will not be long before that foal is pushing his head towards me clearly asking, "Please catch me and give me my carrot!". Now that can't be a bad thing!


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## Kaylum (16 February 2013)

None of my animals get treats, seen too many snappy horses and dogs who don't mean to be but are because of treat giving.  A woman I know used to clicker train her dog with food, the dog got so food driven it actually started taking food from the kids plates. Cute nope disgusting yes.


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## DreamingIsBelieving (16 February 2013)

I usually put treats in Jock's feed or haynet. I feed them by hand as I'm leaving. He never gets nippy, but he pushes his nose into my hands all the time looking for more, which isn't very helpful when I'm trying do do up his rug! He'd never bite, instead he bites but with just his lips, which is really cute. He's the most gentle horse I've ever known.


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## Natti (16 February 2013)

It's nice to know that I'm not the only occasional treat giver! I see so many people nowadays with nippy horses/dogs (although I must say I do give the dog treats quite a lot, he's very good natured about it though) and they can't understand _why_ their animal is acting that way. My friends are the same as you, DreamingIsBelieving, they put treats in the horses haynets, and I would but Phoenix is kind of fat haha


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## Brightbay (16 February 2013)

You get what you train 
If you train your horse to be polite around food, and how to accept food from your hand, you don't get a problem.
If you just randomly feed them, you get a confused horse who doesn't know what it was they did that meant a treat was forthcoming, so they try all sorts, like sniffing, licking, nipping etc.

So the key is to train polite food behaviour, the same way you train polite leading 

Since food is a really good motivator, it's easy to train good food behaviour  I can hold an apple out on my open palm in front of my horse and he'll start backing away from me until I walk in and give him the apple - easy to train, and then you have a horse who looks sweetly at you and walks backwards when they want a treat, rather than a horse who walks into and starts frisking your pockets 

Good examples here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSGmczNAfJg

Better to know you've trained your horse to be polite around food, IMO, than worry that they'll nip a small child with an apple when you're not around to intervene


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## Natti (16 February 2013)

Brightbay, that's a really good video, will definitely be trying some of what was said with my girl! I agree that it's better to train your horse than just leave it and hope for the best, however I had been advised by her owner not to give her any and so, for the last few months, I have been fallowing their wishes. I definitely see the need for training and will be speaking to them about it asap


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## Natch (16 February 2013)

Do I give treats?

Treats for the sake of treats, very rarely. If I do, throwing them into a feed bowl or onto the floor helps prevent horses from mugging me.

As part of training, yes,  but only with horses who won't mug you forever and a day afterwards, and being very careful not to reward any mugging or treat searching behaviour.


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## sandi_84 (19 February 2013)

I'm hugely stingy with treats tbh, I only give them on rare occasions as my boy gets a bit pushy if he gets one and decides he should have more 
My mum is a huge treat machine and is always feeding her pony something but her mare is actually very good and doesn't get all nudgy/pushy about it.
The only thing about treats is that my mum treats my boy as does my friend and I've had to ask them to stop (and I feel really quite bad about having to say stop) because my horse knows he'll get nothing from me but he knows he'll get something from them and so he goes straight to them and completely ignores me


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## Luci07 (19 February 2013)

No treats except for the old mare who gets them when I leave. Nothing for the youngster as he it too bright and I do not wish to be mugged constantly by him looking for treats.


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## putasocinit (9 March 2013)

My two get treats all the time and anywhere, and when i do not have treats they are normal with no bargyness or nipping, a cob and a shettie.


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## RainbowDash (9 March 2013)

My lad is kept at a livery which is also a riding school - fortunately the liverys are kept in separate part of the stables - I've seen how bargy the rs horses are - they get treats off their 'clients' even if they don't deserve it and mug you at every opportunity - even when you're collecting your own pony from turnout.  

My lad only gets 'treats' to aid training, a couple of small carrots in his feed and when he's been good on the walk to turnout and stood nicely to let me take off his headcollar rather than turn and tank off , he gets a finger sized carrot.  Thats going to be phazed out seeing as that part of the training is sorted.

It does annoy me when a newly purchased horse or pony comes in and their young owner spoils it with treats (often mum or dad is non horsey and their child doesnt listen to us 'oldies') - we are all on full livery ( no exercise one though) and the ponies are being a***s for the staff to handle
 because they expect treats on tap.

Horse and dog training has the same principals (i have two labs also) - treat for no reason and you get bad behaviour that is more difficult to solve than treating correct/desirable behaviour xxxxxxx

For the record I've only been a horse owner for 13 months but a dog owner for ten - I have found them very similar training wise xxxx


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## frostyfingers (14 March 2013)

Mine gets carrots and apples in with his meals, and occasional treats in passing if he's been good for the vet or physio or something.  Otherwise no, nothing.  I don't need anything to catch him in the field with either which is helpful.  He came from somewhere he was always given polos after riding but he soon learned that I didn't do that and was fine about it.  I think if you're going to give treats from your hand it has to be random so they aren't expecting it every time.


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## Tabula Rasa (19 March 2013)

I give treats to my riding 2 rescue filly. 
Not overly but I trick train her with them as a reward and then fizzle out the treats and she is happy enough with vocal praise 

A friends children suffer with autism and they are involved with her a lot. However I make sure they can all pick up her feed and move it, have treats in their hands and she doesn't take them/get bargey for them and they can groom her every where while she eats.
She knows she has to work for them and knows she doesn't take them or demand them.

Tabula Rasa


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## SpottyTB (19 March 2013)

This is a really sore spot for me atm, it does my head in.. I have two horses, one is a lovely quiet laid back gelding who is 10 months old and isn't in the slightest pushy or nippy.

The other is a 15.1 mare, who was starved as a youngster and is really funny about her food. Gelding kept on private yard, mare kept on livery. All the liverys understand i don't do treats because she becomes really pushy, bolshy and nibbly - it becomes a right pain! She starts kicking the door and came become dangerous in some aspects (ie; leading).

The yard owner does not understand why i don't feed her treats, i have asked her twice not to, i have informed her that the vet advised me not to and i have even gone as far as to say i will be selling her if she carries on behaving so badly. The other day the woman came into the yard - Gem started kicking the door and she fed her treats - i couldn't believe it!!! 

   two days later, she came in and said to gem (i was filling hay nets) "no treats now darling, later when your mummy isn't here because she doesn't want you having them." - it took all my might not to rip her f*ing head off.. 
   When gem kicks her or bites her, we'll have to leave and she will be branded as dangerous or naughty.. when actually it won't be her fault! 
   According to the other liverys, gem has nipped her before and she punched her in the face - i was fuming, i don't mind people smacking gem if she's naughty but NOT when 1) the woman hasn't ever owned her own horse and actually doesn't even ride and 2) she's encouraging it!!!

*and breathe* sorry, as im sure you can understand i am not best pleased. I don't mind hugo having treats as he doesn't get naughty on them but gem does. Its my only rule with her and when she behaves well when i ride her she has a small feed to say good girl. Nothing out of my hand, and if she does - its very rarely and after she's done something well.


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## windand rain (19 March 2013)

Mine are all natives all very greedy and all get hand fed treats none would dream of mugging me for them they have to stand politely while each one gets a treat. They have to stand back while I carry their feeds in although that does take more control and we get the odd mouthful nicked out of a bucket on the way but there are four of them and they are very hungry. I can carry four buckets into the field and feed each pony individually sadly they dont stay at their own feed so they have to all be fed the same as they will swap buckets
Anyone know how to get them to saty with their own


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## Cortez (21 March 2013)

I never give food to horses out of the hand. And if you're giving "treats" in a feed or haynet it's not a treat then, is it; it's just food. Horses don't need food rewards to perform tasks; they need to understand that they've done well and that praise is the reward. A pat or a kind word is enough - treats are just so the owner feels good about themselves.


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## Aarrghimpossiblepony (21 March 2013)

Cortez said:



			I never give food to horses out of the hand. And if you're giving "treats" in a feed or haynet it's not a treat then, is it; it's just food. Horses don't need food rewards to perform tasks; they need to understand that they've done well and that praise is the reward. *A pat or a kind word is enough - treats are just so the owner feels good about themselves*.
		
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Such arrogance.

And when an unhandled horse doesn't have the first clue about what is a "kind word or pat" and ******s off across the field because a pat scares the living daylights out of them?
And a human's voice is just another scary thing they are having to cope with? A simple "no" above a low murmer can have them trying to jump a five foot  post/rail fence from a stand still?

I used food/treats extensively just to get near enough to teach my pony that a) I wasn't evil
b) An encouragement to be interested in a human enough to learn all the other stuff.

Does she "mug" me for treats, of course not. And as she progresses they are being phased out as the relationship has grown and "a kind word/encouragement" is starting to mean something to her.


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## Cortez (21 March 2013)

Aarrghimpossiblepony said:



			Such arrogance.

And when an unhandled horse doesn't have the first clue about what is a "kind word or pat" and ******s off across the field because a pat scares the living daylights out of them?
And a human's voice is just another scary thing they are having to cope with? A simple "no" above a low murmer can have them trying to jump a five foot  post/rail fence from a stand still?

I used food/treats extensively just to get near enough to teach my pony that a) I wasn't evil
b) An encouragement to be interested in a human enough to learn all the other stuff.

Does she "mug" me for treats, of course not. And as she progresses they are being phased out as the relationship has grown and "a kind word/encouragement" is starting to mean something to her.
		
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Arrogance? No: experience. I've rehabbed enough cruelty cases to know that time and kindness are better routes to take than bribery.


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## Aarrghimpossiblepony (21 March 2013)

Cortez said:



			Arrogance? No: experience. I've rehabbed enough cruelty cases to know that time and kindness are better routes to take than bribery.
		
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Are you suggesting that people who use food/treats are not using time and kindness as well?


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## Cortez (21 March 2013)

Aarrghimpossiblepony said:



			Are you suggesting that people who use food/treats are not using time and kindness as well?
		
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No. I am suggesting that I don't use treats at all and never have and have produced my horses to my satisfaction for many years. Lots of people, perhaps most nowadays, spend a lot of time giving their horses some pretty strange things (like polos - not exactly of nutritional benefit for horses) for reasons which don't make sense to me, especially when viewing the results. What you do is your business.


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## Echo Bravo (22 March 2013)

Spottyb just say in front of people that if your mare doesn't start respecting you and still bargy you think she could be getting dangerous and thinking of pts  the other liveries will soon stop as you as the owner has the say over the mare. As for me mine get carrots in their feed and when I want to do something which they haven't done before, or Lenny having his feet trimmed as he's happy and so is my farrier, as Lenny will stand as good as gold, so yes carrots come in handy, also we reckon he's half rabbit as he will do anything for a carrot, honest.


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## Natti (23 March 2013)

Hey guys, sorry for not getting back sooner, I've been kind of busy  It's good to know that a lot of people are of the same sort of mind as me (I wasn't expecting this many replies) but I would appreciate it if we don't get too hot over this


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## Natti (23 March 2013)

Oh and SpottyTB, I had a relatively similar problem with people, and so did one of my friends, I, luckily just had to remind people that she is still a young horse and not to, however I know my friend put up a 'Do Not Feed Treats' sign on her stable door, that deterred most people


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## caramel (24 March 2013)

If mine gets anything it's in his feed. He also gets a treat ball and a salt lick. That is all.


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## mandwhy (27 March 2013)

SpottyTB - I would be absolutely livid!! How very rude to say that in front of you too! 

I give my horses healthy treats, mostly hi fibre nuts, for things like training feet picking up etc. I know some horses are driven enough to want praise, and I think my little welshie is to a greater degree than my haffy but she is also not grabby at all in the slightest, the haffy has certainly been trained with food before and responds well to it...and not much else! I wish I had raised her from a youngster as she clearly got away with murder in her youth! 

I would never feed polos etc, little slices of apple or carrot occasionally if they're lucky


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## Littlelegs (28 March 2013)

I feed my 24yr old treats all the time. Not sugary stuff, just fruit & veg mainly. Originally it was only at certain times, eg after I'd taken off her headcollar to turn out. But as she's got older, as long as there's no other horses around I feed them whenever. And not only does she not mug or expect them from me or anyone else, she has never even thought of it, let alone nipping. She is so careful toddlers can feed her from scrunched up little fists, & my daughter regularly balances stuff on her head for mare to lift off with her lips & eat. But I accept feeding treats as & when with many would cause problems. Hand feeding in a routine I don't have an issue with anyway, eg for teaching a horse a desired behavior, eg as a reward. Never used them as bribery with an unhandled/problem horse though, I wouldn't want it associating humans & hand treats. Imo hand treats are fine with already well mannered horses or to refine horses who already have basic manners, but not to create basic good behavior. And I absolutely cannot stand people who feed, let alone hand feed, anybody else's horse without express permission. And I don't think there's anything wrong with owners who don't ever treat their own. I do it, but as cortez says, its not actually necessary, its purely for my enjoyment, the horses would be just as happy with any treats in a bucket or on the floor.


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## TommisMum (2 April 2013)

My horsey friends had a long discussion on treats and the summary was ...

No treats in the "training Areas" eg schooling or hacking as there the realtionship is teacher pupil.
Treats in the stable provided the horse isnt overly affectionate by nature.

Now with my 5 that means 4 get treats/cuddles and 1 just gets cuddles!!


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## Goldenstar (3 April 2013)

I use treats as a tool this was taught to me many years ago my a old horseman a man who would have been a youngster when queen Victoria was alive.
Treats are in a noisy bag he used grease proof paper I just use a horse treat bag now the horses learn that the noisy bag means some thing nice .
It then is used in difficult situations like the vet I used it yesterday when I was loading my TB his best pal was in the field beside the lorry friend was whinnying to him I just saw his face change and thought oops I patted my pocket the bag made a noise he thought "horse sweeties "and walked up the ramp.
Clearly however my horses know better than to try to mug me.I would not allow that.


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