# Good horse breed for heavy novice rider?



## bassjunky (20 September 2014)

Hi All,

My first post as I am anxious to get back in the saddle after not riding for a while and was extremely keen to introduce my partner to horseriding..... but he trains (currently weighing in at 17stone plus) and I am having difficulty finding a place willing to offer him lessons (even draught horse specialists etc). 

I did consider his weight when trying to find somewhere but did not expect for weight restrictions to be so low (Shire horse place was 12.5stone!) We hope to own horses at some point so I would really hope for him to become a good horseman in the meantime and it is rather disappointing to consider that he may not be suited to riding at all due to his build. Naturally the welfare of our horses would be a priority over his wish to ride. He is naturally big so no chance of him losing much weight, perhaps a stone and a half max. We had considered that Friesians might be suitable for both our needs (I would like a lively horse capable of hacking and jumping) but a draught horse of any description would be great, so long as they're not overly sluggish in temperament.

Can anyone recommend any breeds that are particularly suited for heavy riders or should we give up on our riding ambitions? Maybe get an elephant perhaps? Hah!


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## MotherOfChickens (20 September 2014)

draught horses are not necessarily weight carriers-they are bred to pull. I have a friend who ran a trekking centre using Highlands, her absolute limit was 16 stone after an assessment. Stalking bred highlands take a full grown stag (up to 18stone) on steep, uneven ground but only at a walk with specially made equipment. tbh, if your partner is 17 stone 'plus' and then with tack, 18 stone 'plus', he's too big to ride. I don't know about the European drafts as have no experience of those but 18 stone is a big ask of any horse IMO.


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## Roasted Chestnuts (20 September 2014)

My welsh D x apply carried a 6ft3/4 17 stone man with tack fully fit and never struggled and he was 14.2hh. He rode him about twice a week. He also carried me at 14st during the common ridings and hunting and was tearing the arms out we the whole way round and finishing with gas in the tank 

I would get him an assessment done at a centre with a fake horse, assess his seat and lightness then you will know if he is too heavy.


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## joycec (20 September 2014)

MotherOfChickens said:



			draught horses are not necessarily weight carriers-they are bred to pull. I have a friend who ran a trekking centre using Highlands, her absolute limit was 16 stone after an assessment. Stalking bred highlands take a full grown stag (up to 18stone) on steep, uneven ground but only at a walk with specially made equipment. tbh, if your partner is 17 stone 'plus' and then with tack, 18 stone 'plus', he's too big to ride. I don't know about the European drafts as have no experience of those but 18 stone is a big ask of any horse IMO.
		
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If a fifteen two highland can carry 16 stone, then any mature, similarly built 17hh or over can carry seventeen.

Too heavy to ride? I've known plenty of horses which would easily carry that weight.

OP, the key with big horses is maturity. They really aren't fully developed until nine, but at that age I would expect any big draft cross or pure draft to carry your other half with no trouble.

Shires and Clydesdale both make lovely riding horses.


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## bassjunky (20 September 2014)

I think the assessment is a great idea as it is not just his weight but how well he controls it. 17 stone landing very heavily during trot/canter can't be much fun for a horse even if it is not a burden at walk. I think it may vary from horse to horse even of the same breed with similar height and weight as they will each have their conformational weaknesses. Character is important too so may find a particular horse clicks. I suppose the best way to check after an assessment is to find a horse who is happy with my partner and enjoys being ridden by him. If it comes to it we will have to settle for a rider/driver and only I will ride him. Breeds intended for cavalry are a good place to start as they are athletic and bred to carry heavy loads, as long as we can afford the food and farriers fees...


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## alainax (20 September 2014)

I think the trouble is the novice part. My 12 stone partner ( total beginner) rode my friesian the other day for 5 mins on the lunge (so partner can learn balance before interfering with the horses mouth  - and I'm a wee bit precious about him  - the horse that is   ) 

My horse was genuinely worried. He had a tense back, and was very much not himself. Wouldn't/couldn't use the correct muscles, hollowed and lost all impulsion. He completely looked after my partner, but I'd never want him working like that regularly. Hacking out might be more relaxing though  

I weigh more than that, but having the balance and strength to work him harmony with him, and not against him. We get along great  

It was interesting for me to see someone lighter than me, having such a negative impact on the horse. As so often people just think of the weight being the impact. I'd never let a novice who weighs what I do on him, as odd as that sounds. 

In saying that, if your partner has a very strong core, a few good lunging lessons on a big chunk of a horse, to show him how to use is what I presume is already strong core effectively, he may be quite capable to learn how to be less of a burden to the horse. 

If you are looking at Friesians, bear in mind its not the taller the horse the stronger it is, its about substance. A shorter stalkier horse will be stronger than a tall lean one.


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## MotherOfChickens (20 September 2014)

joycec said:



			If a fifteen two highland can carry 16 stone, then any mature, similarly built 17hh or over can carry seventeen.


Shires and Clydesdale both make lovely riding horses.
		
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most draught horses are not built as strongly as a Highland, clydesdales certainly aren't and a 15.2h Highland would be overweight, especially for stalking (maybe read some Deb Bennet about height, weight carrying and draught horses). A 17 stone fit person might be easier to carry than a 17 stone unfit person, but will still at a a minimum be 17 stone on the horse's back. 

I am not a person to think that none over 12 stone should ride but I do think that at 17stone a novice is a big ask. One type of horse that might fit the bill is a Spanish Norman-plenty of substance.


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## joycec (20 September 2014)

That is agood point Alainx. 


 I think it would be a good idea if he learnt the basics on a simulator. They are becoming more common, maybe there's one near you, OP?


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## joycec (20 September 2014)

MotherOfChickens said:



			most draught horses are not built as strongly as a Highland, clydesdales certainly aren't and a 15.2h Highland would be overweight, especially for stalking (maybe read some Deb Bennet about height, weight carrying and draught horses). A 17 stone fit person might be easier to carry than a 17 stone unfit person, but will still at a a minimum be 17 stone on the horse's back. 

I am not a person to think that none over 12 stone should ride but I do think that at 17stone a novice is a big ask. One type of horse that might fit the bill is a Spanish Norman-plenty of substance.
		
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Actually you said he was too big to ride *at all*.

And in my reply, I did say 'similarly built'  If highlands can carry 16 stone, then a similarly built horse of a bigger size can carry seventeen.

And I've known several Shire or Clyde crosses who would do it easily.


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## Pearlsasinger (20 September 2014)

I used to co-own a Clydesdale mare with a novice, 15 stone+ rugby player, she didn't notice when he was riding her, except that she could get away with murder.

I currently have a 16hh Westphalian Draft horse (Kaltblut) who gives lessons to a novice 5ft1" 18 stone woman.  The Draft horse is always delighted to see the novice rider and revels in making her progress a little in every lesson.


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## Pilib (20 September 2014)

I have a really chunky ID he would carry your OH and the rest of your family without batting an eyelid! He is not a novice ride though but I believe that not all ID's are as sharp as he is!!


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## Leo Walker (20 September 2014)

I've got a 15.2hh,  some sort of welsh cross. Hes a LW cob in showing terms. He has really good conformation, much better than a lot of cobs and draught horses. If you could scale him up to 16 hands plus he would be absolutely fine. He carries my 6ft3 14 stone novice OH and like mentioned above, would much rather my OH rode him than anyone else! However my OH does only pootle about in walk. He will learn to trot etc but I will be very, very, VERY careful about how much he does each session. I'm heavier than my OH but I am an experienced and balanced rider and dont do very much with him, just light hacking. He goes better for me and is so much more willing and forward than when my sharer, who is I think 11 stone, maybe less rides him.

Mine is 612kgs on a weigh bridge so my OH is well within the 20% guidelines. Horses can happily carry much more than a lot of people on this forum think


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## Leo Walker (20 September 2014)

Just to add, I also have a 14.1hh ish traditonal cob. Again with good conformation, although bum high as hes growing. I dont ride him at the minute as hes only 4. By the time hes 7 I have no doubt he will carry weight. He is incredibly strong and tough and bred to be that way. He is an absolute tank of a horse! You could drive a bus between his front legs! I have no doubt if he was in Scotland he would easily lug an 18 stone deer down off the moors. But hes currently ridden by a 7 stone and a 10 stone rider as hes growing and will continue to grow (hopefully!!) and bulk out for a good couple of years yet! 

I'm not advocating horses carrying riders that are too heavy for them, but I think horses can carry more than the majority of people think with no issues at all!


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## abes mum (21 September 2014)

My husband's horse is 16hh percheron with a lovely temperament and they pootle around together quite happily


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## bassjunky (21 September 2014)

Thanks for the replies everyone, got plenty of food for thought, Shires and Clydesdales have had a few mentions and the Belgians seem to be a particularly popular suggestion (on this and other forums). Myself and my partner would certainly consider a Belgian so that is a starting point.



Pilib said:



			I have a really chunky ID he would carry your OH and the rest of your family without batting an eyelid! He is not a novice ride though but I believe that not all ID's are as sharp as he is!!
		
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What kind of cost are we looking at per annum for an ID with a healthy appetite? Cost including vets bills, farrier, insurance, food, livery etc. After having a quick look at the ID's history and breed characteristics they look like the perfect breed for us. Sturdy and sound enough to carry my partner readily, agility and stamina for my needs and lovely temperament for a novice/children. We both really love the look of the breed, substantial and athletic. Beautiful. Actually very excited to try and find a school that has one/ part loaning one to see how we get on with him. I love that the breed was designed to be an all round versatile family horse as that is what we were looking for.


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## Princess Rosie (21 September 2014)

I would definitely recommend either a shire or clydesdale, the one thing to note is that different saddle manufacturers have different weight limits for their saddles (for the tree), it may be worth looking into suitable saddle weight limits so you know what price range you are looking at, I'm pretty sure synthetics tend to have a lighter weight limit on their tree (I inherited a synthetic with a shire I once bought and the tree was twisted as hell as the previous owner's novice partner had rider him a few times and she was a very large woman).


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## bassjunky (21 September 2014)

Yeah I never thought of that.... I will let my partner worry about the saddle price haa. I'm pretty much happy with any old thing so long as it is comfy for the horse.


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## Meowy Catkin (21 September 2014)

I wouldn't go for a Friesian. There was a link about them recently on a thread discussing them and the genetic problems in the breed. They have lax tendons compared to other breeds, so do not make good weight carriers.

ETA. Here's the link http://www.equinews.com/article/health-problems-friesian-horses




			Studies have found excessive laxity of tendons and ligaments in dwarf Friesians compared to other pony breeds. *Normal Friesians have tendon and ligament stretch properties in between those of dwarfs and normal ponies. It has been suggested that the high-stepping gaits of the Friesian are caused by this increased laxity which affects weight-bearing in the limb joints.* Thus, the collagen-linked disorders common to these horses may actually be the factor that produces their showy way of going.
		
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## Palindrome (21 September 2014)

I very much second the ID suggestion or any Irish sport horse (they are usually ID cross) or warmblood with good bone. You want a horse with good flat bone, a shoulder that slopes at 45 degrees will give you a smooth ride. Also don't forget to consider fitness level, a fit horse can carry more weight on his back. A short back is stronger than a long back but make sure it will take the size of saddle you need.
The breed doesn't matter as much as the way the individual horse is built.


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## dibbin (21 September 2014)

I'd agree with the ID/IDx suggestion.

We have 2 ID crosses, they have lovely temperaments and make fab riding horses, but are athletic enough to really have fun with. My sister's boy especially is brilliant with novice riders.

Depending on the cross, some IDx types would carry your OH with no difficulty.


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## Pilib (21 September 2014)

bassjunky said:



			What kind of cost are we looking at per annum for an ID with a healthy appetite? Cost including vets bills, farrier, insurance, food, livery etc. After having a quick look at the ID's history and breed characteristics they look like the perfect breed for us. Sturdy and sound enough to carry my partner readily, agility and stamina for my needs and lovely temperament for a novice/children. We both really love the look of the breed, substantial and athletic. Beautiful. Actually very excited to try and find a school that has one/ part loaning one to see how we get on with him. I love that the breed was designed to be an all round versatile family horse as that is what we were looking for.
		
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My ID is a pretty good doer. In winter he just gets vitamins and a very small feed of unmolassed sugar beat and Alfa a. 
They tend to be quite hardy but mine is insured for vets bills but this doesn't cover things like jabs and any dentistry that might be required. I just have front shoes on mine and that's about £40 every 6 weeks. 
I would post a photo if I knew how !


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## Wiz201 (22 September 2014)

I'm 5 ft 4 and weigh about 16 - 17 stone but its to do with the way you hold your weight on the horse's back. A stocky 14.2 - to 15hh cob can cope with me fine as long as they're fit enough as I have ridden since childood so I've got natural balance and ride a bit lighter. 
I do feel your pain though when I've tried a few riding schools, the weight limits have seem to have gone down over the past few years. I know draught horses are not as brilliant as people think at carrying weight, but they should be able to carry two or three people over 12 stone as long as they're not carrying novices all the time.
A 16 - to 17 hands high cob (also known as maxi cobs) should cope fine with your partner even if he is a novice. You say he trains, so 17 stone of muscle is going to be different from 17 stone of fat.


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## Stormynight (22 September 2014)

Shires and Clydesdales were built to pull weight, not carry it. I've always been under the impression that a well built ID or similar will carry weight much better?

My boy is part Clydesdale (though he is young), and I've seen him struggle with 16st before I bought him.


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## AdorableAlice (22 September 2014)

These are the types you need to look for.

The top one is by a big Vanner out of a pure Shire mare.  He will take another 3 years to mature.  He is three years old now with 10" of bone and as weak as a kitten. At present he is 16.2.  Cheap enough to buy, costing a fortune to raise but will be cheap when he is done.

The next one is by an RID out of a Clyde mare, this is a 7 year old mare, standing 15.2h with 11" of bone.  She is kind and easy but very very powerful.  Cheap to buy in the rough, a lot of money if made.  Very cheap to keep.

The final one, the chestnut, is 17.2 ID x TB.  A small mortgage to buy and expensive to maintain.  Although sensible enough for a novice, this type of horse is a competition horse/ show hunter/worker ora top quality big country hunter.

Good luck with the search.


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## Goldenstar (22 September 2014)

Draughts often have weak back conformation and want you need is not a specific breed but a weight carrier with an strong well developed back .
Many draught / cob types could do this job .
Personally I understand when riding schools have weight limits it's just much easier for the horses to carry lighter beginners .


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## AdorableAlice (22 September 2014)

Goldenstar said:



			Draughts often have weak back conformation and want you need is not a specific breed but a weight carrier with an strong well developed back .
Many draught / cob types could do this job .
Personally I understand when riding schools have weight limits it's just much easier for the horses to carry lighter beginners .
		
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Are you meaning Irish Draughts with your comment on weak back conformation ?


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## Goldenstar (22 September 2014)

AdorableAlice said:



			Are you meaning Irish Draughts with your comment on weak back conformation ?
		
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No I mean draught bred horses generally .
IDs often have good backs partcularily the traditional smaller shorter legged types because they are a dual purpose breed developed for riding and driving.
What I trying to get across was that just because a horse is a heavier breed it's not a given it will carry a big wieght .


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## hotair (23 September 2014)

A good heavy weight maxi cob should do the job fine, i know one who is about 15.3hh very heavy traditional type with good bone whos rider is at least the same weight as your OH if not more and he manages very happily. Dont give up good luck!!


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## FubsyMog (23 September 2014)

AdorableAlice, how I would love a sit on that mare! (Sorry for minor hijack OP)


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## bassjunky (23 September 2014)

FubsyMog said:



			AdorableAlice, how I would love a sit on that mare! (Sorry for minor hijack OP)
		
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No probs hack away lol

Just happy to have some suggestions of what types to look at so thanks for comments everyone..


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## dibbin (23 September 2014)

Just to add, I'm probably about 16 stone and my 16.1 TBxID has absolutely no trouble carrying me (he's 5/8 TB and not that chunky).


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## AdorableAlice (23 September 2014)

FubsyMog said:



			AdorableAlice, how I would love a sit on that mare! (Sorry for minor hijack OP)
		
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She is a cracker but frighteningly intelligent.  She spent two years terrorising her previous owners and then tried it on me.  We came to an understanding and I do rather like her now.  She looked after me hacking whilst I was having chemo, she seemed to 'know' something was wrong and was not cheeky at all.  I am back to health now and she is cheeky again !


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## *Whinney* (23 September 2014)

Thought I'd post this ad for you OP as he may have disappeared from >> before you see him. Probably too young for you but I'm sure I've seen him on another forum when younger and he's a cracker. 

One for AA too I think 

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/clas...igton/clydesdale-x-hw-cob-gelding-445802.html


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## AdorableAlice (23 September 2014)

No more for me !  I have Ted the Twit and Adorable Alice to break.


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## bassjunky (23 September 2014)

*Whinney* said:



			Thought I'd post this ad for you OP as he may have disappeared from >> before you see him. Probably too young for you but I'm sure I've seen him on another forum when younger and he's a cracker. 

One for AA too I think 

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/clas...igton/clydesdale-x-hw-cob-gelding-445802.html

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I'm afraid we won't be buying just yet! Part loan first, then full loan then ownership, would like to be confident in our abilities before diving in at the deep end. We did want to buy a foal to bring him on ourselves but given comments about bone maturity amongst some breeds not being reached until 7-9 we thought it might be a bit of a stretch having to loan a riding horse in the meantime. I could ride him from being younger but I dont think it would be fair on my OH so next consideration would be a 4/5 year old to back and bring on  

Suppose I better get searching loan ads to see what we can come up with and in the meantime see if we can help out at a local school so my partner can pick up some tips


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## Leo Walker (23 September 2014)

bassjunky said:



			I'm afraid we won't be buying just yet! Part loan first, then full loan then ownership, would like to be confident in our abilities before diving in at the deep end.  

Suppose I better get searching loan ads to see what we can come up with and in the meantime see if we can help out at a local school so my partner can pick up some tips
		
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You might really, really, REALLY struggle finding a part or full loan! I'm fat but way less than your OH and I'm also a very experienced rider. I couldnt find anything remotely suitable, so I bought my boy. When I got him I idly looked at part loan ads to see if there was anyone suitable. I'm afraid I turned down anyone over 13 stone. I had a couple of 15 stone people but while my boy would be ok with 15 stone of balanced rider for light hacks, these were novices or people wanting to get back into riding. I had 2 17 stone people reply which wouldnt ever be something I would consider no matter how big the horse!

Going by how long their ads have been running, 7 months + in one persons case the big weight carrying horses arent available for part or full loan. I'll be honest, my boys part loaner is 11 stone and I'm happy with that. I expect him to carry my weight, but anyone else I would want to be lighter. Why should I pimp him out to carry weight when theres tons of lighter riders available? I also know I am telling the truth about my weight and am an experienced and balanced rider and I never ever push him. We light hack in walk with the odd bit of trot. I cantered for 4 strides on Thursday and made a post on FB about it, as its that rare. And saying all of that, I am way below his maximum and have a decent synthetic fitted and regular vet checks etc


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## Leo Walker (23 September 2014)

a 4 or 5yr old wouldn't work either. My little cob is 500kgs and built like the proverbial tank! If he was 7yr old I'd have no issue riding him, but hes 4 rising 5yr old and no way would I get on him. Again, I'm within the 20% guidelines but hes skeletally immature so its not appropriate. 

Please dont take this the wrong way, I'm heavy due to being fat not muscular but most owners, even the heavy ones, if they are looking for another rider want a competent one who is relatively light weight.


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## bassjunky (24 September 2014)

FrankieCob said:



			a 4 or 5yr old wouldn't work either. My little cob is 500kgs and built like the proverbial tank! If he was 7yr old I'd have no issue riding him, but hes 4 rising 5yr old and no way would I get on him. Again, I'm within the 20% guidelines but hes skeletally immature so its not appropriate. 

Please dont take this the wrong way, I'm heavy due to being fat not muscular but most owners, even the heavy ones, if they are looking for another rider want a competent one who is relatively light weight.
		
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I think you're getting confused about what I was saying, I wouldn't dream of putting him on a 500kg horse no matter what age it was. Nor would I put him on a 4/5yr old. The point I was making was given 7-9yr bone maturity it wouldn't be sensible or fair for my partner to have to wait 6-8 yrs to ride, when we could get a horse who was 4/5 whose weight/type/conformation etc could be more accurately assessed and my partner would only have to wait a few years to ride (rather than 6). We could get a 9 yr old but I am keen to get a younger horse to bring on myself, to watch him learn and improve as he matures.

Regarding the loan situation we would just have to see what we could get. I have already enquired about a few loan horses locally that he wouldn't be able to ride so that he can be introduced to horses before riding. I don't think he has so much as stepped foot on a yard let alone put one in a stirrup so there really is no rush. I would rather he at least learned the basics of horse care to decide if he could see that as a lifestyle before committing to anything long term. 

In the meantime I would be the primary caregiver and rider regardless as my partner lives an hours drive from myself so could only groom/ride/muck out etc on a weekend. If he was going to ride regularly then I wouldn't even waste time looking for a loan horse I would wait until we were living together/closer so we could buy our own and share care duties, because as you say nobody wants a novice who weighs 17 stone riding their horse. However as he is only going to ride once or twice a fortnight (if that) with me riding regularly (I am close to half his weight and a confident rider) then I don't see why we couldn't find a loan horse. Time will tell anyway ha. Baby steps....


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## alainax (24 September 2014)

Where are you based op? I might know of a place where he could ride.


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## bassjunky (24 September 2014)

alainax said:



			Where are you based op? I might know of a place where he could ride.
		
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Shropshire but wouldn't mind travelling every once in a while if it meant he could get a feel for it. I was originally looking at riding holidays on draughts in Cumbria and Scotland but he was over their weight limits by a long shot.


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## bassjunky (7 October 2014)

Well things have gone better than expected, after giving up on a part loan for the both of us I decided to find one for just myself to ride with my partner helping out with the care. Found a gorgeous TB that I instantly fell in love with (as did my partner) and the owner herself recommended that my partner try him out as he has carried weight with no problem before. Absolutely thrilled!!!


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## Wiz201 (8 October 2014)

bassjunky said:



			Well things have gone better than expected, after giving up on a part loan for the both of us I decided to find one for just myself to ride with my partner helping out with the care. Found a gorgeous TB that I instantly fell in love with (as did my partner) and the owner herself recommended that my partner try him out as he has carried weight with no problem before. Absolutely thrilled!!!
		
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Excellent. Some TBs are chunkier than others.


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