# PETA calls for eventing to be banned



## happyhunter123 (29 May 2013)

What looneys!! 

According to PETA:
_'These events are too demanding for the horses. Horses are sensitive animals and to make them jump such dangerous obstacles under time pressure is animal abuse'_

http://eventingnation.com/home/peta-calls-for-end-to-eventing.html


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## teapot (30 May 2013)

Oh ffs - they'd have a coronary if they went and watched high goal polo...


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## Moomin1 (30 May 2013)

teapot said:



			Oh ffs - they'd have a coronary if they went and watched high goal polo...
		
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Much as I have my own opinions about PETA, I don't think high goal polo is anything we should be proud about in this country...

I think it's pretty horrendous.


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## RachelBristol (30 May 2013)

Horses have been working animals almost as far back as horse and human in time!  Now they have food, training, shoes, blankets...... etc.... etc Horses then died at the drop of a hat and were left on the side of the road! V's now?... this report = poppycock!


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## Bedlam (30 May 2013)

Good luck with that then PETA.


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## Marydoll (30 May 2013)

Eejits


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## Mackenzie6 (30 May 2013)

How ridiculous !, 

All my eventers have absolutley thrived on competing !, part of the buzz is how your horse gets so happy and excited after the SJ waiting for the XC. 

Horses simply won't do Xcountry at the levels it is deemed 'dangerous' unless they love it.
 Although I respect PETA for their work I really think they need to spend some time with event horses and their riders at home and competing to understand the partnership involved. Yes it's considered a dangerous sport but horses are not stupid and like I have said they would not do it if they didn't want to !. The majority of riders would not continue to compete a horse with a distinct fear of any of the phases anyway. Yes there are the minorities but with the cost of eventing horses...... Why would someone persist with a horse who is not bold enough or is clearly unhappy??. My horse ..... competed and then broke a leg in the field..... He was put down and left me heartbroken..... We as humans could walk in front of a bus ?..... Where do we draw the line ?

Imagine if eventing at every level was banned...... What the hell does PETA think would happen to so many of the horses ?..... Slaughter. Simple.

Rant over


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## 1stclassalan (30 May 2013)

teapot said:



			Oh ffs - they'd have a coronary if they went and watched high goal polo...
		
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I went to a match once and that's what happen to TWO of the ponies. I can't think of Polo without seeing those two horses collapse and die. At the time, I was dead keen on having a go but that did it for me - I could never drive a horse that hard.

I think that all the various protestors have their points but if we banned all they want banned - we'd all end up sitting indoors wrapped in cotton wool - by then, all the animals would have been put down for their own good or in the name of conservation!


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## Elf On A Shelf (30 May 2013)

Well at least people will now kind of know what racing gets subjected to from the likes of PETA! 

They only see what goes on at events in the public eye. They dont go behind the scenes either at the competition or at home so they don't ever truly understand how well our athletes are looked after.


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## pip6 (30 May 2013)

I've bred three horses to go eve ting, oldest now five has had a fantastic start to her career winning a ode at only her third outing. Very proud to breed them for this sport, think it's fantastic life for them.


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## essex_rider (30 May 2013)

PETA seriously need to sort it out! I am vegan and massively into animal rights, but i have to say PETA really do focus their over the top campaigns in completely the wrong places.

Being a vegan and riding horses is a contradiction in itself, and i do get critisised for it, but i have always had horses, have always competed and don't see myself ever stopping. My horses are happy, well cared for and love life. 

What PETA don't seem to get is that we know our own horses, we know if they are happy doing what is asked of them, and, i would hope, we know when they have reached their limits, and would not push them into dangerous situations.

There are deaths in eventing but there are also deaths in fields every day. In my opinion domesticated horses have a far better life in general then wild horses who overbreed, starve, suffer etc.

I must add that i do not agree with horse racing, in my opinion the horses are too young, run too hard etc

It really winds me up that PETA do campaigns like this because it just makes them a laughing stock, and takes away from groups that actually try and make a difference to animals lives such as animal aid!


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## fburton (30 May 2013)

1stclassalan said:



			I went to a match once and that's what happen to TWO of the ponies. I can't think of Polo without seeing those two horses collapse and die. At the time, I was dead keen on having a go but that did it for me - I could never drive a horse that hard.
		
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At least they died doing what they love (because they simply won't do polo at that level if they don't love it). Of course, it's always tragic when a horse expires while doing a sport.

Personally, I think we can use domestic animals as we like, as long as we take reasonable steps to minimize suffering.

"Should the sport be doing more to study and understand heart-related issues that arise during cross country?"

I would be very surprised if no research was being done on this issue.


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## fburton (30 May 2013)

essex_rider said:



			PETA seriously need to sort it out! I am vegan and massively into animal rights, but i have to say PETA really do focus their over the top campaigns in completely the wrong places.
		
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This is a very good point (although I believe in animal welfare, not rights). PETA should concentrate their efforts on where suffering is greatest - that's a no-brainer.


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## lachlanandmarcus (30 May 2013)

I wish they would concentrate on the thousands of horses in this country left in fields with nothing but rubbish and ragwort to eat, full of worms and beaten. 

I would have more respect for them then. But then that would require lots of effort and tackling difficult people. 

Easier to go for easier and more headline grabbing targets....


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## Roasted Chestnuts (30 May 2013)

F@nnies is really all i can think of.


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## misterjinglejay (30 May 2013)

Bl***y Peta!


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## ExmoorHunter (30 May 2013)

Oh really?!!! Is this the same organisation that has been exposed for putting animals to sleep in their rescue centres?  

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nathan-j-winograd/peta-kills-puppies-kittens_b_2979220.html


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## s4sugar (30 May 2013)

ExmoorHunter said:



			Oh really?!!! Is this the same organisation that has been exposed for putting animals to sleep in their rescue centres?  

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nathan-j-winograd/peta-kills-puppies-kittens_b_2979220.html

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Yes because they don't consider anyone should own any animal.

This is actually a good expose of them (full episode) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inFtOMx8nDU


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## djlynwood (30 May 2013)

teapot said:



			Oh ffs - they'd have a coronary if they went and watched high goal polo...
		
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why, what happens in high goal polo?


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## jrp204 (30 May 2013)

So if animals shouldn't be kept what do they expect to happen? Lots of cows,sheep, dogs, cats, rabbits, gp's, horses etc all running free? 
Or, there simply wouldn't be any animals. That would be a sorry state of affairs.


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## Piglet (30 May 2013)

I would far rather be an event horse than a poor moorland pony scratching around for food and giving everything to their foals.  The ponies on our moors are do thin you can see every rib and hip bone even through their winter coats.  Why don't PETA concentrate on those travelling people who hammer their very young horses up and down roads!!


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## lindsayH (30 May 2013)

Agree Piglet, or a fat "much-loved" pet cob with chronic low grade laminitis and arthritis. Clearly PETA have absolutely no understanding of horses and should stick to talking about things they actually know something about.


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## teapot (30 May 2013)

djlynwood said:



			why, what happens in high goal polo?
		
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This is just one example and it gives you an idea of how rough the game can be! It doesn't happen in every game and the last one is the most horrendous of fouls you'll probably ever see. 

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=380237518755422


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## Flame_ (30 May 2013)

jrp204 said:



			So if animals shouldn't be kept what do they expect to happen? Lots of cows,sheep, dogs, cats, rabbits, gp's, horses etc all running free? 
Or, there simply wouldn't be any animals. That would be a sorry state of affairs.
		
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That's it, there just wouldn't be domesticated or farm animals being bred. I really respect the vegan perspectives on animal use and ownership, there's a fair principle at the root of it and it's well thought out enough to genuinely make sense, unlike so many fluffy ideals (eg Ban horse slaughter: What happens to all the excess horses??? Ban eventing: Why, people will just use different ways to test horses??? etc) Its far removed from the world we're used to, and I'm with you that it would be sad, not least to all the employment and industries it would hit, but it is actually a well reasoned perspective unlike most of the hypocritical, unworkable, pointless, little, drop-in-the-ocean causes, like the one in the title.


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## HBM1 (30 May 2013)

I have seen some shocking riding at events and those individual riders do need pulling up, literally.  However, seeing the vast majority of event horses love their job I can't see PETA having much effect.  It isn't as if the horses know what the time is anyway.


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## MillyMoomie (30 May 2013)

I cannot put into words what I think of this. But I will condense my final thought.

I will not let this happen


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## Nicnac (30 May 2013)

How about HHO calls for PETA to be banned?


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## tallyho! (31 May 2013)

Whatever the opinions, I really don't like it when people say horses can "love" something they do. How on earth are we to know?

Would they do a full course on their own if we let them loose on Badminton grounds? Would they still run without a rider at Ascot?

Please, don't anthropomorphise horses like that. Or any animal.

Just because they don't protest, doesn't mean they dream about hurling themselves over two L200's each night.

I know we say "he loves carrots"... I can believe that. I just don't believe a horse LOVES eventing.

I think my horse prefers jumping to flatwork because his attitude changes but I don't think he "loves" it. I think the case is that the owner loves eventing and likes the fact that the horse seems willing to do as is asked.


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## Honeylight (31 May 2013)

teapot said:



			This is just one example and it gives you an idea of how rough the game can be! It doesn't happen in every game and the last one is the most horrendous of fouls you'll probably ever see. 

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=380237518755422

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Peta's ridiculous aside; I am surprised polo hasn't been a target for animal rights people. I knew someone that had a gap year job at a polo yard & she said they took some of the ponies' molars out to facilitate the use of gags. Just look at the hardware in the poor b......s mouths & martingales as well. All that stopping from a gallop must put a terrific strain on the tendons.
Why does this not get attacked where racing, eventing etc do is simple; no TV coverage.


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## Moomin1 (31 May 2013)

Honeylight said:



			Peta's ridiculous aside; I am surprised polo hasn't been a target for animal rights people. I knew someone that had a gap year job at a polo yard & she said they took some of the ponies' molars out to facilitate the use of gags. Just look at the hardware in the poor b......s mouths & martingales as well. All that stopping from a gallop must put a terrific strain on the tendons.
Why does this not get attacked where racing, eventing etc do is simple; no TV coverage.
		
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I think polo should be banned, without a doubt.

Horrendous 'sport'.


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## Alec Swan (31 May 2013)

tallyho! said:



			Whatever the opinions, I really don't like it when people say horses can "love" something they do. How on earth are we to know?

Would they do a full course on their own if we let them loose on Badminton grounds? Would they still run without a rider at Ascot?

Please, don't anthropomorphise horses like that. Or any animal.

Just because they don't protest, doesn't mean they dream about hurling themselves over two L200's each night.

I know we say "he loves carrots"... I can believe that. I just don't believe a horse LOVES eventing.

I think my horse prefers jumping to flatwork because his attitude changes but I don't think he "loves" it. I think the case is that the owner loves eventing and likes the fact that the horse seems willing to do as is asked.
		
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The theme behind your statements can't be dismissed,  I accept that,  but if we follow your argument to it's logical conclusion,  then I could ask you if your horse lies down so that you can mount to facilitate your flat-work;  the simple fact is that they don't have voice-able opinions.  I could ask you if your horse actually enjoys being ridden in a school.  I could ask you,  for that matter,  if your horse enjoys being schooled,  and the simple answer is that we don't know.  

We can only judge a horse's enjoyment,  or lack of it by the animal's reaction to what we ask.  If a horse is programmed to perform a certain task,  and it does so without too much resistance,  then we may fairly claim that it enjoys itself.  

I've seen very few horses that didn't "appear" to enjoy hunting,  some perhaps more than is comfortable!,  but generally at the sound of hounds,  and the prospect of a good gallop,  it's only the seriously elderly who aren't so willing.

I don't actually think that horses display any degree of intelligence or opinion,  I suspect that as our servants,  they pretty much go along with what we want.  How we feel about what we do is up to the individual,  and Society's demands!

Alec.


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## fburton (31 May 2013)

Moomin1 said:



			I think polo should be banned, without a doubt.
		
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Polo horses love their job or else they wouldn't do it?? (I'm sure they don't love getting injured, of course, but that's the risk you take when you do sport.)


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## tristar (31 May 2013)

all these debates about banning sports pose, for me ,the question, what are horses for? why do they exist and why did they come about through the process of evolution and selective breeding, or in other words they can
offer us so much, and are they just about sport and exploitation?

someone said a while ago about a well known event rider's distress at their horse being killed while competing,  'they had killed the horse because those jumps are barbaric,'   it's gone round in my head ever since


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## pip6 (31 May 2013)

Personally can't abide polo. Spent years at a livery yard that overwintered them (& personally found rugs for those that weren't coping-owners/yards never supplied any for their 'adored' animals) & took in broken ones for rehab. Owners always appeared first few days swearing do anything their one of the family, never to be seen again. Few months later when fixed Arge grooms appeared, started hitting them, beating them up if they moved a foot. All were terrified & headshy when they arrived. One poor soul, Francesca, had 7 bone chips in her leg from match injury. Vet wanted pts, owner said he'd pay for anything, save her, she's one of the family, look i've bought her a stable rug to wear whilst recuperating, she'll be our lawn mower at home, just save her etc. We did manage to save her, went down one day (bearing in mind this horse was still on box rest, not even field sound yet), to find owner had sent groom to get her so he could play arena polo on her that winter (was autumn time). Like on of the family, really? Poor family.

Hope PETA have thought what to do when all the free running herbivores get hungrey & eat their veggies.


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## Anglebracket (31 May 2013)

fburton said:



			Polo horses love their job or else they wouldn't do it?? (I'm sure they don't love getting injured, of course, but that's the risk you take when you do sport.)
		
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Regardless of whether they love an activity or not horses are incapable of risk assessment. We take responsibility for their welfare and make decisions about the risks we expose them to. Where the line is drawn is different for each individual. 

Peta's views are evidently quite extreme. However, as long as they don't sabotage events or break any laws they are entitled to them. Just as some of the commentators on here are entitled to their belief that Peta is bonkers.


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## tallyho! (31 May 2013)

Alec Swan said:



			The theme behind your statements can't be dismissed,  I accept that,  but if we follow your argument to it's logical conclusion,  then I could ask you if your horse lies down so that you can mount to facilitate your flat-work;  the simple fact is that they don't have voice-able opinions.  I could ask you if your horse actually enjoys being ridden in a school.  I could ask you,  for that matter,  if your horse enjoys being schooled,  and the simple answer is that we don't know.  

We can only judge a horse's enjoyment,  or lack of it by the animal's reaction to what we ask.  If a horse is programmed to perform a certain task,  and it does so without too much resistance,  then we may fairly claim that it enjoys itself.  

I've seen very few horses that didn't "appear" to enjoy hunting,  some perhaps more than is comfortable!,  but generally at the sound of hounds,  and the prospect of a good gallop,  it's only the seriously elderly who aren't so willing.

I don't actually think that horses display any degree of intelligence or opinion,  I suspect that as our servants,  they pretty much go along with what we want.  How we feel about what we do is up to the individual,  and Society's demands!

Alec.
		
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Well, yes! Exactly!

So to say "horses LOVE eventing!!" Or "he LOVES to race" is quite wrong as we don't know if they do or not. They do our bidding with skill or not, that's all.

Sadly no, my horse does not lie down so I can hop on... He does not love me!! *wails* 

Perhaps it's something we can "work" on


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## tallyho! (31 May 2013)

tristar said:



			all these debates about banning sports pose, for me ,the question, what are horses for? why do they exist and why did they come about through the process of evolution and selective breeding, or in other words they can
offer us so much, and are they just about sport and exploitation?

someone said a while ago about a well known event rider's distress at their horse being killed while competing,  'they had killed the horse because those jumps are barbaric,'   it's gone round in my head ever since
		
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Well, you know, it's a good question... I often ask humans are for...???


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## fburton (31 May 2013)

tallyho! said:



			So to say "horses LOVE eventing!!" Or "he LOVES to race" is quite wrong as we don't know if they do or not. They do our bidding with skill or not, that's all.

Sadly no, my horse does not lie down so I can hop on... He does not love me!! *wails*
		
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Some people have trained horses to do just that. Videos of people getting their horses to do amazing and impressive things seemingly willingly can be found on YouTube. A common response is "What a wonderful relationship they have!". However, one could also say the horses were simply very well trained! It may be that the willingness isn't a _result_ of the relationship, and using that word is just another way for people to feel good about the way we use horses?


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## Elf On A Shelf (31 May 2013)

At the end of the day no one will ever agree as to what horses should and shouldn't do, what they love, what they don't, what is acceptable risk, what is not etc. 

Personally I don't like eventing due to the toll on human life. I can accept the risk to horses - owner/riders choice - if the horse is injured/killed then it's the rider/owners fault for not doing a good enough job of preparing the horse. 

PETA is OTT and it's their job to get people riled up and paying attention to them - even bad publicity is still publicity at the end of the day!


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## JackAT (31 May 2013)

Pathetic Eventing Tarnishers Association. (On the spot, best I could do  )

There's far more cases of actual cruelty that deserve more attention from the public to correct!


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## teapot (31 May 2013)

Honeylight said:



			Peta's ridiculous aside; I am surprised polo hasn't been a target for animal rights people. I knew someone that had a gap year job at a polo yard & she said they took some of the ponies' molars out to facilitate the use of gags. Just look at the hardware in the poor b......s mouths & martingales as well. All that stopping from a gallop must put a terrific strain on the tendons.
Why does this not get attacked where racing, eventing etc do is simple; no TV coverage.
		
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The wearing of martingales is in the HPA rules if I remember rightly and gags rely more on pressure than what's in the mouth (a cheltenham gag is quite basic in the middle!)

Like any horse sport there are bad stories so don't tar them all. The yard I learnt in had ponies in good condition and I had every bit of kit explained to me before I even got on. 



Moomin1 said:



			I think polo should be banned, without a doubt.

Horrendous 'sport'.  

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Speaking from experience or just a hatred?


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## rachyblue (31 May 2013)

Anglebracket said:



			Regardless of whether they love an activity or not horses are incapable of risk assessment.
		
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I disagree there - a horse will look at something scary and decide whether to run or have a closer look or attack it


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## Moomin1 (31 May 2013)

fburton said:



			Polo horses love their job or else they wouldn't do it?? (I'm sure they don't love getting injured, of course, but that's the risk you take when you do sport.)
		
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That's like saying that horses which happily walk into the slaughterhouse 'want' to die, otherwise they wouldn't walk in there.  Or the diving shetlands must love to jump off the board and plummet into the pool below, or dressage horses must love rollkur...the list goes on....


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## Honeylight (31 May 2013)

teapot said:



			The wearing of martingales is in the HPA rules if I remember rightly and gags rely more on pressure than what's in the mouth (a cheltenham gag is quite basic in the middle!)

Like any horse sport there are bad stories so don't tar them all. The yard I learnt in had ponies in good condition and I had every bit of kit explained to me before I even got on. 



Speaking from experience or just a hatred?
		
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I admit it is a sport I don't know an awful lot about. I always thought a gag was a very severe bit & especially when combined with a curb & draw reins. Can you enlighten?


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## Anglebracket (31 May 2013)

rachyblue said:



			I disagree there - a horse will look at something scary and decide whether to run or have a closer look or attack it
		
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Very true. However, I meant a more complex form of risk assessment that goes beyond the here and now.


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## teapot (31 May 2013)

Honeylight said:



			I admit it is a sport I don't know an awful lot about. I always thought a gag was a very severe bit & especially when combined with a curb & draw reins. Can you enlighten?
		
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Polo isn't played in draw reins for one! Certainly the ponies I rode had two sets of reins on a cheltenham gag with standing martingale and you only needed the lightest of touches. A gag is severe bit but only in the wrong hands. It's the hands that make any bit severe. Others I rode were in pelhams with two reins. 

As an aside, most people who ride in a cheltenham gag normally tend to only use the one rein and use the second reins attached to the rope cheek pieces when needed and thus gain the effect of the gag part of it.


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## harveysmom (31 May 2013)

Have they not heard the proverb "you can lead a horse to water but you cant make it drink"
Horses only do it because they want to. there isnt a person alive that can force a horse to do anything
Do you think they can get work banned as its cruel to humans, then we can all spend as much time as we like at the stables


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## orionstar (31 May 2013)

All I can say Is, no one from peta has seen me attempt to give my horse a worming suringe. I use the words attempt loosely. Also no one from peta has seen a strange man attempt to pick her back feet up. If they have seen her walk past the log splitter at full blast or the OH in chainsaw mode, I'd be very proud. Horses have a verrrrry long memory, some are slightly slower than others to pick up on nasty situations, but most will throw in the towel the minute they dislike something!


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## tallyho! (1 June 2013)

harveysmom said:



			Have they not heard the proverb "you can lead a horse to water but you cant make it drink"
Horses only do it because they want to. there isnt a person alive that can force a horse to do anything
Do you think they can get work banned as its cruel to humans, then we can all spend as much time as we like at the stables
		
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Wrong and possibly a silly analogy to use here... Horses do it because they have been trained to and have been conditioned to have no fear of whatever it is they are being asked to do therefore see no threat.

Force is a huge part of training whether you can see that or not. A horse naturally chooses that path of least resistance when given a choice.

How do you think we even manage to halter train foals and young horses? I have never yet seen a weanling "WANT" to wear a headcollar or be led for the first time... but they all do it eventually.


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## Freddie19 (1 June 2013)

Here we go again, soft target.....what really makes me so angry, is that these organisations such as PETA and the RSPCA make loud noises about sports usually done by "mostly" law-abiding citizens and yet, and yes I do have personally knowledge of this: report somone you suspect of DOG-FIGHTING to them and they run for the hills. We all know that this is a real and on going problem, but how many times, yes how many times do we see this being tackled by these organisations.  It makes me so mad, yes I appreciate that the people who are involved in this cruel, inhumane disgusting fighting are usually out and out thugs, also usually involved in drugs etc, but please please bring in the police and lets sort them out. I feel so sorry for the staff who work on the ground for the above organisations, pretty much like the nurses and doctors in the A&E depts who are there on the front line, whilst their overpaid, undercaring desk jockey managers work their nice little 9 to 5 jobs for pay and pensions that the staff can only dream about.... lets stop beating about the bush, and really get set into the real problems.  I vote in every election be it local or general election and have done for 48 years, do I feel I have wasted my time? yes....why....because we are losing control of our country.....


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## Jinx94 (1 June 2013)

Moomin1 said:



			That's like saying that horses which happily walk into the slaughterhouse 'want' to die, otherwise they wouldn't walk in there.  Or the diving shetlands must love to jump off the board and plummet into the pool below, or dressage horses must love rollkur...the list goes on....
		
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tallyho! said:



			A horse naturally chooses that path of least resistance when given a choice.
		
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When I was clearing out our tack room the other week, I brought out all of the polo kit that's been sat in the corner gathering dust for the last couple of years (I look after two ex polo ponies). Both had come trotting over when I arrived, but had gone off to munch the grass when I didn't bring them in immediately. The moment they clocked the gear, they shot over to the fence, snorting and whickering, ears pricked, then neighed and stood there a while longer once I'd put it back.

I didn't offer them a choice. But it was pretty obvious that they love the game.


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## tallyho! (2 June 2013)

Jinx94 said:



			When I was clearing out our tack room the other week, I brought out all of the polo kit that's been sat in the corner gathering dust for the last couple of years (I look after two ex polo ponies). Both had come trotting over when I arrived, but had gone off to munch the grass when I didn't bring them in immediately. The moment they clocked the gear, they shot over to the fence, snorting and whickering, ears pricked, then neighed and stood there a while longer once I'd put it back.

I didn't offer them a choice. But it was pretty obvious that they love the game.
		
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That's your proof?


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## Jinx94 (2 June 2013)

Horses aren't stupid. If they hated being ridden when the rider is carrying a mallet and sending them chasing after a ball, they aren't going to have a positive reaction to those items.


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## fburton (2 June 2013)

Moomin1 said:



			That's like saying that horses which happily walk into the slaughterhouse 'want' to die, otherwise they wouldn't walk in there.  Or the diving shetlands must love to jump off the board and plummet into the pool below, or dressage horses must love rollkur...the list goes on....
		
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I was being sarcastic, as is my wont when I'm irritated by things people say. The "love" argument is pretty dodgy, in my opinion. It reeks faintly of anthropomorphism. That's not to say there aren't things that horses get pleasure from doing, but a horse doing something without resistance, or even energetically, doesn't _necessarily_ mean they love doing it - at least, not as much something they would choose to do themselves unbidden. So desire to perform an action can be gauged by seeing how enthusiastically it is done without outside pressure or prompting. If you set up a course of fences in a horse's field and routinely saw them being jumped, then you might be justified in believing true love of the activity - doing it for the pleasure it gives the horse.



Jinx94 said:



			Horses aren't stupid. If they hated being ridden when the rider is carrying a mallet and sending them chasing after a ball, they aren't going to have a positive reaction to those items.
		
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It doesn't have to be so black and white - if not love then hate. A horse can be trained to perform obediently, one way or another, and may end up being entirely happy to follow instruction within its atheltic capabilities. Or they may acquiesce with a degree of reluctance. Shades of grey! Neither of these responses constitute _love_.

It's not a big deal when people say their horses love to do something when the horse is merely content to comply. It only becomes a problem (for me anyway) when this fictitious/imagined "love" is used as counter-balance against something deleterious, as a way to justify a particular use of horses.



harveysmom said:



			Horses only do it because they want to. there isnt a person alive that can force a horse to do anything
		
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I'm sorry, that simply isn't true. I've seen force used to do all sorts of things with/to horses - loading, maintaining uncomfortable positions, going through water, having teeth rasped - the list is potentially very long!


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## pip6 (2 June 2013)

With regard to polo I had no opinion on it prior to going to this livery yard.

I think what summed up to owner attitude to me (not all I grant you, there were 2 lovely owners who came every weekend over the winter to see their horses & always made sure they had rugs if needed) was a guy going out with a lady on the yard. He was very wealthy, having his own polo yard & string. He was sat with us having a cup of tea/coffee, waiting for his partner & we started to ask him about his polo (which he clearly enjoyed immensely). He was proud of the fact he didn't know the names of any of the ponies in his string, & referred to them as motorbikes with legs. He used the 'motorbike' analogy several times, saying he didn't have any feelings for his horses, they were just motorbikes to chase the ball. If one broke, he just bought another. 

I find it hard to like a sport with the side of seen of running a broken pony into the ground in arena polo so the owner can have a bit of fun over the winter, the injuries they came with were horrendous, they where terrified of being beaten up, the ponies were dumped over the winter without a second thought.

Even the nice owners admitted they were the exception, most didn't give a monkeys about the ponies.

As an aside, one of the polo yards dumped a 12hh pony (not polo) with us one summer suffering with laminitis, with orders to get it shot. My friends daughter asked to take it on & try to save it (bones hadn't rotated), which they okay'd. She spent months getting the pony right, & they adored each other. Stayed for a 18 months, then owner (who had wanted it shot) had row with YO about unpaid livery bills, so turned up one day & took her horses including pony. Later that year when YO went to polo yard to collect an injured horse for rehab, they saw they pony (by now about 20 years old), in a tiny pen constructed on corner of concrete yard. While they were there they saw the Arge grooms ride it, belting it about the place as a joke. It looked miserable, terrified & lame. IT so upset them having to leaave the pony in that situation, when before she had been in excellent shape, enjoying life with her young loaner.

I just can't like polo.


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## casio (3 June 2013)

tallyho! said:



			Wrong and possibly a silly analogy to use here... Horses do it because they have been trained to and have been conditioned to have no fear of whatever it is they are being asked to do therefore see no threat.

Force is a huge part of training whether you can see that or not. A horse naturally chooses that path of least resistance when given a choice.

How do you think we even manage to halter train foals and young horses? I have never yet seen a weanling "WANT" to wear a headcollar or be led for the first time... but they all do it eventually.
		
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Regardless of your opinions on polo, it is obvious when a horse enjoys doing something, and nobody with any sense would force a horse to pursue a discipline they didn't enjoy as they simply will not do well in it, regardless of ability.

Any polo pony competing in high goal will love their job. They understand the game, and they follow the ball, and will actually place you next to it if they're good enough.

In high goal a pony will frequently only get played for about 3 minutes at a time.

I'm affiliated to BS as well as the HPA (polo equivalent) and there are so many more tack specific rules in polo than there are in show jumping (can't comment on BE, as I don't do it) and the implementation of rules is so much stricter. If there's something not right with a pony, then it will be marked and will not be able to play again for the rest of the day.

As for saying horses have no concept of risk, that's just ridiculous.

As with all sports there are good and bad. Any polo yard I've ever been on have looked after their horses incredibly well and basing opinions on a whole sport based on a few uninformed experiences would be similar to me saying dressage should be banned just because a minority use rollkur.


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## Antw23uk (3 June 2013)

Good 'ol PETA. Always finding something to ban! Having been a reptile keeper for many years I'm well used to the drivel they come out with so this 'ban eventing' drivel doesnt surprise me in the least!


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## Farma (3 June 2013)

fburton said:



			I was being sarcastic, as is my wont when I'm irritated by things people say. The "love" argument is pretty dodgy, in my opinion. It reeks faintly of anthropomorphism. That's not to say there aren't things that horses get pleasure from doing, but a horse doing something without resistance, or even energetically, doesn't _necessarily_ mean they love doing it - at least, not as much something they would choose to do themselves unbidden. So desire to perform an action can be gauged by seeing how enthusiastically it is done without outside pressure or prompting. If you set up a course of fences in a horse's field and routinely saw them being jumped, then you might be justified in believing true love of the activity - doing it for the pleasure it gives the horse.


It doesn't have to be so black and white - if not love then hate. A horse can be trained to perform obediently, one way or another, and may end up being entirely happy to follow instruction within its atheltic capabilities. Or they may acquiesce with a degree of reluctance. Shades of grey! Neither of these responses constitute _love_.

It's not a big deal when people say their horses love to do something when the horse is merely content to comply. It only becomes a problem (for me anyway) when this fictitious/imagined "love" is used as counter-balance against something deleterious, as a way to justify a particular use of horses.


I'm sorry, that simply isn't true. I've seen force used to do all sorts of things with/to horses - loading, maintaining uncomfortable positions, going through water, having teeth rasped - the list is potentially very long!
		
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I totally agree with this!¬


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## Molly'sMama (11 June 2013)

I misread the title of this thread,and for a split-second thought it said

*PETA calls for everything to be banned!* 

In truth ,it is probably apt xD


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## MrsB (12 June 2013)

Maybe they should take a closer look at Appleby Horse Fair, where I saw a picture of a 10 month old foal pulling some idiot on a cart.  That is abuse and stuff like that should be stopped.  Have they piped up about the Grand National?

Idiots....


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## amandap (12 June 2013)

tallyho! said:



			Whatever the opinions, I really don't like it when people say horses can "love" something they do. How on earth are we to know?
		
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Ditto. I think we forget the influence we have through training and horses' naturally compliant nature. They tend to just get on with the life they are in.

One thing Peta do achieve is getting us all thinking and talking about more mainstream horse activities. lol


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## fburton (12 June 2013)

amandap said:



			One thing Peta do achieve is getting us all thinking and talking about more mainstream horse activities. lol
		
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Yes, but is that a Good Thing?


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## Faithkat (12 June 2013)

tallyho! said:



			Whatever the opinions, I really don't like it when people say horses can "love" something they do. How on earth are we to know?

Would they do a full course on their own if we let them loose on Badminton grounds? Would they still run without a rider at Ascot?

Please, don't anthropomorphise horses like that. Or any animal.

Just because they don't protest, doesn't mean they dream about hurling themselves over two L200's each night.

I know we say "he loves carrots"... I can believe that. I just don't believe a horse LOVES eventing.

I think my horse prefers jumping to flatwork because his attitude changes but I don't think he "loves" it. I think the case is that the owner loves eventing and likes the fact that the horse seems willing to do as is asked.
		
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Now, you tell me this horse doesn't love eventing!  She's not exactly being beaten into it:


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## amandap (12 June 2013)

fburton said:



			Yes, but is that a Good Thing? 

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Well, I suppose it depends on how the discussion goes but my belief is it is never a bad thing to revisit your own and cultural practice and philosophy. Perhaps we should all carry on never questioning or changing?


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## amandap (12 June 2013)

Faithkat said:



			Now, you tell me this horse doesn't love eventing!  She's not exactly being beaten into it:
		
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Lovely photos and the horse looks very comfortable/content to me. I personally couldn't say the horse loves it because I'm not a horse and I don't think one needs to beat a horse to get it to comply apparently happy and enthusiastically.

Good training, preparation and husbandry will produce a horse content and comfortable in it's work for us. This is the skill we all hope to achieve.


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## tallyho! (12 June 2013)

Faithkat said:



			Now, you tell me this horse doesn't love eventing!  She's not exactly being beaten into it:















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Well you seem to have an ability to speak horse so why don't you tell me???


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## fburton (12 June 2013)

Nice photos! The horse's ears are pricked, so on that alone we could reasonably assume the horse isn't _unhappy_ with the work. But to say she loves eventing is a big and unwarranted further step, in my opinion.


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## Oreo&Amy (6 July 2022)

Mackenzie6 said:



			How ridiculous !,

All my eventers have absolutley thrived on competing !, part of the buzz is how your horse gets so happy and excited after the SJ waiting for the XC.

Horses simply won't do Xcountry at the levels it is deemed 'dangerous' unless they love it.
Although I respect PETA for their work I really think they need to spend some time with event horses and their riders at home and competing to understand the partnership involved. Yes it's considered a dangerous sport but horses are not stupid and like I have said they would not do it if they didn't want to !. The majority of riders would not continue to compete a horse with a distinct fear of any of the phases anyway. Yes there are the minorities but with the cost of eventing horses...... Why would someone persist with a horse who is not bold enough or is clearly unhappy??. My horse ..... competed and then broke a leg in the field..... He was put down and left me heartbroken..... We as humans could walk in front of a bus ?..... Where do we draw the line ?

Imagine if eventing at every level was banned...... What the hell does PETA think would happen to so many of the horses ?..... Slaughter. Simple.

Rant over 

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They are loonies who know literally zero about the 98% of loving horse owners who have a unique bond with their horse. Pathetic.


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## nagblagger (6 July 2022)

Old thread...


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