# Over-tightening girths, the effect...



## kerilli (26 April 2011)

this is quoted from COTH, where they're talking about elastic and non-elastic girths etc:

"There was at least one study (I think it was a series) in Australia a few years back that linked over-tightening the girth to a drop in performance on the racetrack. If the girth is too tight, the horse can't breath properly.

Okay -- here's a write-up from the Blood-Horse in 2001.

Girth Tightness and Performance

Quote:
On average, for each kilogram of increase in girth tension over five kilograms, the horses in the study became fatigued 81.3 meters (0.05 miles or 88.9 yards) sooner and tired 12 seconds quicker."

"It is our view that girths are frequently over-tightened," Slocombe said. "Riders should be aware that there is an optimum tension, probably at least eight to 10 kilograms, in order to prevent saddle slippage. But if it is much higher than that, it will begin to have a negative impact on the horse's performance."

Interesting, huh?


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## PapaFrita (26 April 2011)

Do elasticated girths perform differently to non-elasticated girths, as they will (or should) still have some 'give' when tightened correctly?


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## HayleyUK (26 April 2011)

It'd be interesting to see what the difference is with the humane girths...


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## MiaBella (26 April 2011)

I remember that article and have not over tightened my girth since - the problem with the elastic and humane girths is that its easier for people to over-tighten them - so they end up being tighter than a plain leather girth (or with as little give as a normal girth).  I like the professional choice neoprene girth as it gives a little more stickability and keeps the saddle in place without having to be too tight.


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## Roody2 (26 April 2011)

Very interesting research, but how is the average rider meant to know how much tension they are applying? I know I do up to the 5th hole on both sides then another one hole when I'm on, that's enough to keep the saddle in place. But I have no idea what the tension is.

Interestingly (or not, depends what you find interesting..!!) it is point 9 in the 1934 book 'A Handbook for Horse Owners' - 'Don't tighten the girths unduly'. 
This is after point 8 which says 'Don't ride your horse in bandages', and point 19 which states 'Do not assume that your horse is stupid. Give him credit for intelligence.'


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## Allover (26 April 2011)

That is really interesting, its a significant drop in performance!! 

There is also the impact on the muscles of the girth area which on some horses become tight and sore from over tightening the girth. The amount of horses i have seen and\or treated with issues in the muscles in that area is quite significant and it is my belief that it comes from girths being too tight.

The elasticated girth versus the non elasticated girths could also be an interesting debate, "old school" horse people tend not to like elasticated girths as they find it easier for people to over tighten!


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## Britestar (26 April 2011)

Very interesting. It would seem that many people these days don't realise that if you do use an elasticated (one side) girth, the elasticshould be on the off side, in order that you can keep tightening the girth by stretching the elastic. Even with double sided  elastic, care should always be taken to not simply stretch the elastic as you tighten.

I understand that girths that have the elasticin the middle, under the horse are the best to use if you want this tyoe of girth.

Personally, I'm really bad at tightening girths. I put on the saddle in the stable and rarely touch the girth again. Last year at the RC champs, I came out of my 2nd SJ and realised I hadn;t tightened the girth after loosening it after the 1st round! Hole 2 on both sides - oops!, but then again, no slippage and horse jumped fine


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## kerilli (26 April 2011)

PF, i think it's a double-edged sword... elasticated girths have a nice bit of give, so they're easier to over-tighten.
it's a particularly difficult balance on a young horse too... you don't want the saddle to move at all in case it frightens the horse, but if the girth's overtight then the horse might get upset because of that.

i think girths with elastic at 1 end are the absolute work of the devil, personally. a v experienced saddler told me they're the reason a lot of horses veer in midair over jumps (girth gives on 1 side as horse lifts and expands ribcage as it brings its forelegs up, which makes saddle gullet sort of 'jack-knife' along top of spine...)
elastic in the middle or not at all, for me...


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## Clarew22 (26 April 2011)

Just wondering if there is method people work to on how tight a girth ideally should be so not to be over tight


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## stroppymare153 (26 April 2011)

**hangs head in shame**

didn't know you could get girths with central elastic - which brands?  

Need a new girth - Barry's is on top hole each side and still actually looks loose


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## stilltrying (26 April 2011)

I think Im probably the opposite and might have mine on the loose side  I like to comfortably be able to fit my hand flat between girth and horse (I have a girth thats elasticated on both sides).   Makes me wince when I see people on the yard hauling the girth up once they are on / ask me to haul their girths up.   Im guessing i'm completely wrong?? but my saddle fits well and has never slipped.despite jerry's acrobatics (tempting fate or what?!)


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## Allover (26 April 2011)

I was always taught that you should be able to slip your hand under the girth.

Thats intresting about the one sided girths moving the saddle sideways, i had not even thought of that being a possibility!


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## kerilli (26 April 2011)

yes, i like to have the width of my flat hand, maybe a tiny bit tighter for xc. 
stroppymare, i'm not sure about the make of mine, i have lovely thick padded leather girths with the elastic in the middle over the padded sleeve, so it can't rub the horse. i've had them so long i can't remember where they came from!
Allover, i'd never thought of it either but it makes sense, esp with horses veering in midair. also, it's ridiculous that we try so hard to make everything as even as possible but will use a totally asymmetric girth...


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## Britestar (26 April 2011)

http://www.happytack.co.uk/french-d...astic-dressage-girth-black-or-brown-264-p.asp

http://www.reactorpanel.com/html/girths.html

Here you go. 2 types


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## Britestar (26 April 2011)

And another

http://www.frankbaines.com/page.asp?id=25&productid=33&Dressage-Girth-Leather-Lined


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## OneInAMillion (26 April 2011)

My girth always tends to be looser than I would ideally like as if you do it too tight D will have a major major strop!


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## Kokopelli (26 April 2011)

I always forget to do up my girth, I don't know why.

I could be schooling for about 20mins and look down and realise I could fit a fist between pony and the girth. 

I hate seeing over tight girths though, and pulling the girth up very tight before you even get on.


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## Vanha12 (26 April 2011)

Well - have to admit I had no idea elasticated girth should be on off side so thanks for putting me straight!  I find that I can do most  things on my mare without having to overtighten at all (normally ticked off for having girth too loose) BUT my girls'ponies are another matter altogether!  We have had all sorts of changes of saddles and fitters and they are so hard to get right that we find that they need tightening far more than the horses. Anyone else have this problem with small 'table backed' ponies?


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## NR99 (26 April 2011)

About ten years ago a kid on our yard overtightened a girth with elastic only at one end and broke the horses sternum


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## Luci07 (26 April 2011)

I have girths which are elastic on both sides so where does that leave me? and another one for asking how you can work out the correct tension? I was taught that there should be no real gap but now you are worrying me!


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## oldvic (26 April 2011)

Certainly with the racehorses an overtight girth will reduce performance and can increase the likelihood of a horse bleeding if they are that way inclined. In NH racing a wide girth is preferable for comfort and a really wide girth can make a huge difference to how some horses move in dressage.


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## littleme (26 April 2011)

So if i want to slow my horse down do i tighten its girth further?!


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## Vizslak (26 April 2011)

I notice a very marked difference in my lads way of going and overall performance if his girth has been over tightened. This is interesting.


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## Tnavas (27 April 2011)

I gear check at Pony Club competitions and constantly find that girths are over tightened. Mine are tightened only to keep the saddle in pplace - often been advised that my girth is too loose but I've never had my saddle slip in 45yrs of riding.


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## milo'n'molly (27 April 2011)

the links for the girths seem to be dressage girths, what about ones for gp saddles?


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## flyingfeet (27 April 2011)

I am pretty sure this research was linked to the Sci girth, that had a system to tell what tension you had (indicator orange dot system)

However they flopped as not many people wanted to pay over £100 for them! 

Anyway I always use an elasticated girth - either both ends or entire length. My reasoning is that even tight, the horse can still flex and breathe. Whereas a flat unforgiving belt is not ergonomic - you would want an athlete to use something that moves with them not be fixed. 

One sided elasticated is just illogical on something you want to keep symmetrical (your neddie), so therefore the work of the devil and ought to be thrown in the bin


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## muddy_grey (27 April 2011)

Is it just me or are the first and thrid links to the same girth?  The pictures look identical, but link one is £55 and link three £116.99!!!
That's more than double - The Cheek


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## Maesfen (27 April 2011)

Just try this on yourselves and then try to run then think of your poor horse with your weight to contend with too -

Tighten up your trouser belt so it is uncomfortably tight (but as tight as you would normally have your girths)  Then run a 100 yards - then try not to feel as if you can't breath and are cut in too.  

Makes us see it from their perspective then.

I was always taught the flat of my hand and no tighter and that would have been with no elastic at all.


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## Tnavas (28 April 2011)

Maesfen said:



			Just try this on yourselves and then try to run then think of your poor horse with your weight to contend with too -

Tighten up your trouser belt so it is uncomfortably tight (but as tight as you would normally have your girths)  Then run a 100 yards - then try not to feel as if you can't breath and are cut in too.  

Makes us see it from their perspective then.

I was always taught the flat of my hand and no tighter and that would have been with no elastic at all.
		
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To get an even better idea, place the belt - done up tight around your ribs just below your ampits - its equivalent place on the horse. Then try to walk to the end of the street - not comfortable at all.


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## sleepingdragon10 (28 April 2011)

kerilli said:



			this is quoted from COTH, where they're talking about elastic and non-elastic girths etc:

"There was at least one study (I think it was a series) in Australia a few years back that linked over-tightening the girth to a drop in performance on the racetrack. If the girth is too tight, the horse can't breath properly.

Okay -- here's a write-up from the Blood-Horse in 2001.

Girth Tightness and Performance

Quote:
On average, for each kilogram of increase in girth tension over five kilograms, the horses in the study became fatigued 81.3 meters (0.05 miles or 88.9 yards) sooner and tired 12 seconds quicker."

"It is our view that girths are frequently over-tightened," Slocombe said. "Riders should be aware that there is an optimum tension, probably at least eight to 10 kilograms, in order to prevent saddle slippage. But if it is much higher than that, it will begin to have a negative impact on the horse's performance."

Interesting, huh?
		
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Lukey soon tel;ls you if you've done the girth too tight.......it's one of my pet hates tbh. The girth shouldn't be as tight as you can possibly get it, it should be tight enough to keep the saddle in it's place.


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## silverstar (28 April 2011)

I was thinking about this the other day. I normally use an ordinary non elastic girth but they were always too slack and I was thinking of getting a double elastic girth for my new horse.


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## SnowGoose (28 April 2011)

A good friend of mine has just had a paper published on a similar topic - i have a PDF copy but not sure if i'm allowed/how i post on here.

if you want to try and find it its:

Sue Wright, Comparative Exercise Physiology 7(3) pg141-148 Girth tensions and their variability while standing and during exercise.


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## Noodlebug (28 April 2011)

fatgreypony said:



			A good friend of mine has just had a paper published on a similar topic - i have a PDF copy but not sure if i'm allowed/how i post on here.

if you want to try and find it its:

Sue Wright, Comparative Exercise Physiology 7(3) pg141-148 Girth tensions and their variability while standing and during exercise.
		
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I would love a copy!! My horse is definately affected by the girth


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## KatB (28 April 2011)

There was a load of work done by the inventors of the "Sci Girth" (google it!) They are a fab design, but ££, so never got round to buying one! However, the people who backed my coloured were HUGE fans of them, and he was certainly happier in them that he was in conventional girths


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## SnowGoose (28 April 2011)

Paper abstract cited above 


The tension applied to the girth is usually based on an individual&#8217;s experience rather than by scientific measurement or procedure. The equine thorax is a dynamic structure, and therefore the actual readings of girth tensions at rest and during exercise (actual tension) are likely to vary from the tension to which the girth was intended to be tightened at restwhile standing (intended tension). This study was undertaken to determine the variability of girth tensions at rest
and during exercise. A total of 19 Hanoverian horses were lunged on a 20m circle in walk, trot and canter on both reins. In a randomized design, each horse was exposed to intended tensions 6, 10, 14 and 18 kg (saddle and girth at appropriate intended tensions). Girth tension was measured and recorded continuously using an in-line load cell.
Intended girth tensions were not significantly different with mean actual girth tensions while standing. Actual girth tensions increased significantly (P , 0.001) between walk, trot and canter at all tensions except rest to trot at tension 6 kg, where the significance level was P , 0.01. Actual girth tension was significantly higher (P , 0.001) on the left rein at tension 14 kg in walk and trot, and at tensions 6, 10 and 14 kg during canter, and there was an overall trend for higher actual girth tensions on the left rein for the other tensions. As the thorax is a dynamic structure, girth tension variation could be due to multiple factors such as respiration, breath holding, muscular contraction, back flexion and extension, speed, gait and vertical acceleration of the saddle. Girth tension is a relatively new area of research, and as there are many opportunities for further research, a better understanding of the impact the girth has on the horse could help to improve performance and welfare

so basically what this is saying is that the horse changes shape as it moves due to breathing (rib cage expanding and contracting) muscular movement of forelimbs and hindlimbs etc so if you tighten your girth at halt, it will increase in tightness once the horse starts to move!


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## Redd (30 April 2011)

I usually tighten my girth after about 5 minutes of walking, but whilst still at walk to avoid over-tightening.  I have to have elastic as my horse blows out so much I can't get it on otherwise.  It is elasticated both sides and I can always fit my hand flat between his side and the girth and move my hand away from his side a little to push the girth out as he would when breathing.


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## brighteyes (30 April 2011)

I have the girth on loose setting til just before I get on, tighten slightly before climbing on from fence/block/trough then tighten slightly after a few minutes, if necessary.  I use 'elastic both ends' wider girths.  I HATE girths to be overtightened and am mystified why people, even without reading these scientific papers and evidence-based reports, would imagine a horse's could be unimpaired by being almost cut in half by a fixed, non-giving band encircling its body.  Some Pony Club tack check sessions made me cringe and I have actually gone in and loosened my ponies' girths after ridiculous tightening by the instructor - and no, I'm not sorry!


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## MegaBeast (30 April 2011)

I think one important factor to consider is where on the girth you check the tension.  I was always taught to check under the sternum not as you see most people doing on the side.  Logically, not all horses are perfcetly round, if they're a bit slab sided then the girth will seem to be almost slack unless you check behind the legs at which point it will probably be quite snug.

I'm a huge fan of the professional choice girths used sympathetically as you don't have to do them up as tightly as conventional girths.  However I'm sure a lot of people don't realise this and honk them up as tight as they'll go - which with elastic both ends must be excruciatingly tight!


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## foxy1 (30 April 2011)

This is a real bugbear of mine.

I once took a pony (whose rider had been having problems with napping) for schooling. The girl came for a lesson and left the pony with me afterwards tacked up and rushed off as they were running late. When I tried to untack the pony the poor things girth was so incredibly tight I nearly had to cut it off! I would like to say that with a looser girth the pony suddenly went beautifully but that wasn't the case however by the end of the week she did go forward far more freely and willingly and I've no doubt the over-tight girth was a contributing factor to the pony's problems.


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## Roasted Chestnuts (30 April 2011)

Hmmm interesting..... I was discussing with a friend recently how Girth tightness can affect the saddle fit in general and are people hurting their horses back with saddles, that if the girths were at the right tension, they would fit correctly???

I like a bit of give in my saddle but having been the numpty that tried to jump and had too loose a girth and ending up going under with the saddle I will admit that I have been guilty of perhaps over tightening in the past.

How do people feel about the over girths then around a normal girth??? I used one of these quite a lot XC many years ago.....

Very interesting subject


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