# most shock absorbing half pads - gel, memory foam, wool , other ?



## minimex2 (8 November 2018)

Does anyone know of any research done that measures which is the most shock absorbing ? theres so many on the market 

As im a novice/bouncy/unbalanced rider and looking to give my horse a bit of comfort....

Am having lessons, and know about combining with saddle fit but wanting a bit cushion.

thanks in advance


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## BOWS28 (8 November 2018)

My mare always wears her Acavello gel pad under her saddle. It is lined with fluff so sits well and doesn't move at all! Since using it, the back lady has said she's so much more comfortable, which makes the Â£100 soo worth it  They also look super smart too!!!


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## Alibear (8 November 2018)

I think something similar has been discussed before it proper sheepskin was said to be best.


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## Sprat (8 November 2018)

I've only posted something similar this morning! I tried a ThinLine saddle pad last night - very good! However, the company is based in the US so with the import tax etc. the cost comes to around Â£140 which is steep.

Will be following with interest!


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## tristar (8 November 2018)

always think prolite is the best


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## Rosiejazzandpia (8 November 2018)

Prolite or proper sheepskin. I really like premier equine sheepskin half pads with the air technology shockproof stuff built in


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## milliepops (8 November 2018)

Alibear said:



			I think something similar has been discussed before it proper sheepskin was said to be best.
		
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this rings a bell with me too.


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## Alibear (8 November 2018)

I think I've found it
https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/...ir-saddle-and-why.755679/page-2#post-13660980
Post#23 by Sbloom was the bit I remembered.


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## Pinkvboots (8 November 2018)

A good bit of sheep is what I like under a saddle, but not all saddles are fitted to accommodate this, as they are much thicker than a normal cotton numnah so it might be worth getting your fitter out and saying what you want under your saddle.

Good tips for looking after sheepskin is give it a good brush after using so the fibres don't flatten and get full of sweat, only wash at 30 degrees never with fabric conditioner but not to often, and dry naturally giving it a little brush as it dries, keeps them in good condition and I have some of my numnahs years.


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## Kaylum (9 November 2018)

Beware not all half pads are pure sheepskin but pretend to be. They tend to be the cheaper ones.


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## sbloom (9 November 2018)

So much BS out there about pads, excuse my language.  Sheepskin, proper medical grade sheepskin (I stock and recommend only Mattes) actually outperforms Acavallo on a basic bowling ball drop test I did recently (see Truth Tack Review on Youtube to see this type of test, shame she hasn't tested all these UK "industry standard" pads). I now carry a bowling ball in my van for this purpose!

Mattes no longer recommend brushing their sheepskin, I've not had a chance to find out why, or to test out if something has actually changed, as it always used to work.  They recommend washing it more often than they used to, always use a LEATHER wash, not a wool wash.

Thinline is the best that is widely available in the UK, I have not tested it but the TTR has and it performs extremely well.  It is thin, so won't perform as well as a similar material in a thicker style but won't affect your saddle fit.  If you want the absolute mutts nutts then check out Jen of the TTR's brand in the US, Jen X Equine, though they are very thick so affect fit.  

Prolite absorbs only 25% max shock, compared to the Jen X Equine ones at 90-95%.  Not a fan though if a customer already has one I'll work with it, and if you already have one and your horse likes it, no problem.  I firmly believe that if these companies keep renaming materials so you can't look them up with the manufacturer, and see what they were designed for, what their performance figures are, then we're being led my marketing only.

There are two new pads out - the VIP pad is made from a decent performing material but there is a cheaper more basic version available, the Winderen could be interesting, I think it's a really good material but they don't state what that material is, and again it's really thick so will affect your saddle fit.

Don't believe the hype people!


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## sbloom (9 November 2018)

Oh and the Winderen is super pricey!


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## Casey76 (9 November 2018)

I was looking at the Winderen pad (the ad is really good, showing the bowling ball test with corresponding graphs of the dampening effect)

However I wonder how much this actually effects seat aids? Doesnâ€™t the dampening effect of the pad also deaden the seat aid effects?


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## minimex2 (9 November 2018)

Alibear said:



			I think I've found it
https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/...ir-saddle-and-why.755679/page-2#post-13660980
Post#23 by Sbloom was the bit I remembered.
		
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thank you


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## minimex2 (9 November 2018)

sbloom said:



			So much BS out there about pads, excuse my language.  Sheepskin, proper medical grade sheepskin (I stock and recommend only Mattes) actually outperforms Acavallo on a basic bowling ball drop test I did recently (see Truth Tack Review on Youtube to see this type of test, shame she hasn't tested all these UK "industry standard" pads). I now carry a bowling ball in my van for this purpose!

Mattes no longer recommend brushing their sheepskin, I've not had a chance to find out why, or to test out if something has actually changed, as it always used to work.  They recommend washing it more often than they used to, always use a LEATHER wash, not a wool wash.

Thinline is the best that is widely available in the UK, I have not tested it but the TTR has and it performs extremely well.  It is thin, so won't perform as well as a similar material in a thicker style but won't affect your saddle fit.  If you want the absolute mutts nutts then check out Jen of the TTR's brand in the US, Jen X Equine, though they are very thick so affect fit. 

Prolite absorbs only 25% max shock, compared to the Jen X Equine ones at 90-95%.  Not a fan though if a customer already has one I'll work with it, and if you already have one and your horse likes it, no problem.  I firmly believe that if these companies keep renaming materials so you can't look them up with the manufacturer, and see what they were designed for, what their performance figures are, then we're being led my marketing only.

There are two new pads out - the VIP pad is made from a decent performing material but there is a cheaper more basic version available, the Winderen could be interesting, I think it's a really good material but they don't state what that material is, and again it's really thick so will affect your saddle fit.

Don't believe the hype people!
		
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thanks for this..
have you done the bowling ball test on the VIP Pad ? - looking at all their marketing couldn't see  any reference to max shock absorb


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## Otherwise (9 November 2018)

It's an absolute minefield with no where near enough robust science backing up the claims. Another couple of very expensive/interesting options are the Toklat made with poron xrd and the Invictus made with D30.


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## sbloom (12 November 2018)

Otherwise said:



			It's an absolute minefield with no where near enough robust science backing up the claims. Another couple of very expensive/interesting options are the Toklat made with poron xrd and the Invictus made with D30.
		
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Both these materials look very good, they name the materials, you can research how they perform. No BS!  I knew of Toklat though they're not easy to source in the UK, but the Invictus is new to me so thank you!


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## milliepops (12 November 2018)

minimex2 said:



			thanks for this..
have you done the bowling ball test on the VIP Pad ? - looking at all their marketing couldn't see  any reference to max shock absorb
		
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I bought one at YHL, it felt different to every other gelpad I've had or seen and I will be selling my acavallo on the basis of 2 rides... if anyone can describe how to replicate a bowling ball test without a bowling ball (not the kind of thing I keep hanging around...) I'd have a go


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## sbloom (12 November 2018)

I got mine broken from a bowling alley, just phoned them up and asked for a damaged one!



minimex2 said:



			thanks for this..
have you done the bowling ball test on the VIP Pad ? - looking at all their marketing couldn't see  any reference to max shock absorb
		
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I would like to but no prepared to fork out for one just to test it .  Did ask the maker of it for more info on a FB thread but was ignored, as was an osteo friend of mine.

It's a 40 year old technology, the makers of the material make their own more basic version of the pad.  I think it's probably more like a memory foam type of performance as it was developed by or with NASA, very little overlap with high performance fast moving impact protection from what I've seen over the years.  However, if your horse really likes it, as milliepops does, then go with it.  I just want to save people spending money on products that aren't proven, and finding that there was either better available, or that it makes very little difference.


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## DD (12 November 2018)

has anyone any info on Numed numnahs?


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## DabDab (12 November 2018)

Casey76 said:



			I was looking at the Winderen pad (the ad is really good, showing the bowling ball test with corresponding graphs of the dampening effect)

However I wonder how much this actually effects seat aids? Doesnâ€™t the dampening effect of the pad also deaden the seat aid effects?
		
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Can of worms.
Using a dropped weight test as the only indicator of performance for an equine saddle pad would be an extremely odd approach. However it is relatively inexpensive as a test and often material manufacturers will give the shock absorption properties, so even cheaper.


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## minimex2 (12 November 2018)

milliepops said:



			I bought one at YHL, it felt different to every other gelpad I've had or seen and I will be selling my acavallo on the basis of 2 rides... if anyone can describe how to replicate a bowling ball test without a bowling ball (not the kind of thing I keep hanging around...) I'd have a go 

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Fab - thank you - save me buying to try - tbh ive done some of my my own experiments this weekend with the pads I have.

I don't have bowling ball either but had a golf ball.  As long as you use the same on all the tests it will give you an idea (even a marble)

Put the pad flat on a hard floor, drop the ball from knee height.  (and you can also use your acavallo one as comparision)
Ideally what you are looking for is the one where the ball doesn't   bounce back. - max absorb .

I asked VIP if they did this test (as its what of others do) but they replied and said they hadn't. - which made me think it doesn't perform that well.

The video a car going over a biscuit wrapped in the pad - but all that measures is loads baring and not direct impact.

thank you and let us know how you get on
x


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## sbloom (12 November 2018)

Casey76 said:



			I was looking at the Winderen pad (the ad is really good, showing the bowling ball test with corresponding graphs of the dampening effect)

However I wonder how much this actually effects seat aids? Doesnâ€™t the dampening effect of the pad also deaden the seat aid effects?
		
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DabDab said:



			Can of worms.
		
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There are many different qualities within one foam, these really good pads are like non-Newtonian fluids - cornflour and water.  Take a look at how that performs when you thumb it hard, yet how it performs, as you would expect if you gently push your finger into it.  I have riders are higher levels finding even 13mm XRD great to ride on.  Flocking doesn't deaden weight aids, neither even does an air panel if fitted well...




minimex2 said:



			The video a car going over a biscuit wrapped in the pad - but all that measures is loads baring and not direct impact.
x
		
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Yes, it's spreading pressure, which sheepskin does pretty well, though probably not to that level.  The key factors in a good pad, I'm sure amongst others, are that you want fast recovery but LOW rebound, ie you do not want the pad contributing to bounce if you're likely to be fired out of the saddle in a rotational fall.  Spreading pressure is definitely helpful, but a well fitted saddle should be showing pretty even pressure under it statically, it's the dynamic pressure that's the issue.

Multi quote isn't working properly so will make a second post.


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## sbloom (12 November 2018)

Downton Dame said:



			has anyone any info on Numed numnahs?
		
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What would you like to know?  They're not performance numnahs in the normal sense that we're talking about here.  They have some pads that contain Prolite (shimmy pads) but the rest are wool fleece lined, shorn from the sheep and woven into a knitted backing. Not a bad product at all, but it will not perform even as well as sheepskin.



DabDab said:



			Can of worms.
Using a dropped weight test as the only indicator of performance for an equine saddle pad would be an extremely odd approach. However it is relatively inexpensive as a test and often material manufacturers will give the shock absorption properties, so even cheaper.
		
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Sorry, I didn't realise this had part quoted above, very odd!  

Well seeing as the foremost safety textiles designer in the industry uses it for demonstration purposes it's pretty useful.  XRD is demoed in videos with drop tests.  However, these pads that use proprietary materials have been developed in close consultation with the manufacturers, have undergone extensive general testing, and have full data sheets available for those who can interpret them (my OH happens to have a good deal of experience in the foam industry).  It is not conclusive, sure, but it's a useful indicator. 

Do you have experience you can bring to the discussion?  I think this is all so important for consumers to understand, to avoid the hype, that "so and so uses it so it must be amazing", or even about some of the more scientific testing that goes on.  What was the sample used?  How were controls set up?  How applicable therefore is this research to my own situation?  Validity and reliability of data in the new research coming along is super important, but we all get dazzled by "science".


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## DabDab (12 November 2018)

Oh gosh, I'm not going to start spouting off boring engineery stuff! ðŸ˜‰

In terms of just the limitations of drop weight test for this particular application:
*The material that the test material is sat on has a bearing on performance because of how the two interact, so when you sit the test material on a horse's back, rather than, say, concrete, it will exhibit different absorption properties.
*Shock absorption/mechanical dampening effects are not linear, so the exact response will be different under light loads than heavy loads
*The test is based on applying a shock loading, whereas for a saddle pad (unless you're riding really strangely), most of the loads generated are cyclic, and arguably it's those kinds of cyclic forces that are the most likely to damage a horse's back
*For saddle pads that have a large dampening effect you have to account for where the energy is going when it is 'absorbed' by the material. If it's turning to heat energy (which is most likely), is that desirable? Do we want something that is really shock absorbing but turns into a hot plate on the horse's back, or do we want something a bit less 'absorbent' but that has really good airflow properties built into the design?


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## sbloom (13 November 2018)

Thank you .  The materials are all developed for breathability, and the original purpose of these pads was for rider safety, the XC side of things especially, but these materials are being used by national endurance teams with fantastic results obviously over huge distances so again I am sure the cyclical impacts are well catered for.

Jen Hegeman settled on the bowling ball test as the closest approximation for a human that she could easily find and demonstrate.

I would hope to, at some point, do some specific pressure testing in use - there is a cheaper system available now which may mean this is cost effective.  The Pliance system is hideously expensive so unless you are manufacturing to quite a scale it can be prohibitive.

These are all effectively non-Newtonian liquids, they do not generate heat is my understanding, I believe the pressure is somewhat pushed sideways but perhaps you can help us on this one?


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## DabDab (13 November 2018)

Sorry might be me being dense, but which manufacturer are you talking about? There have been quite a few mentioned on this thread. 
What's the rider safety angle? Reducing impact up spine?

Specific modelling of the stresses experienced under the saddle would be amazing. I don't think there is a good comprehensive study done so far that would be good enough for manufacturers to design off (though I might be wrong).

Now you're at the cans of worms - non-newtonian fluids are strange and mysterious beasts and vary considerably from one to another. The type that will be used for this gain their 'hardness' in response to an applied force because the particles in the fluid are driven closer together at a faster rate than the fluid in between can get out of the way. So the higher the impact force, the more 'viscous' they become and the more momentary strength they gain. Which is possibly why they would work very well in a saddle pad - at low forces (eg normal riding weight aids), they transmit the force fairly accurately through to the horse, because their structure doesn't change a great deal, whereas it will change and resist high sudden impact forces (which we don't want going through to the horse's back). And because it actually transmits a lot of the low level riding forces (which will be a good percentage), heat energy is not generally being created, so no issue. And because of the semi liquid nature of the material, it is also really good at spreading forces out through the whole body of the pad, thus avoiding pressure points.

If used well this has the potential to be a seriously clever use of materials and piece of design. But not many of the advantages given by this design can be captured by a bowling ball drop test. And I'm just wary of corner cutting competitors who will cotton on that this is the only test that consumers look at, and therefore they just have to make something that does really well in that test (without any of the other big benefits).

Hope that's not too rambley and makes enough sense


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## Goldenstar (13 November 2018)

Sheepskin does not suit some horses I own one who lies down if you try to mount him when heâ€™s got one on ,we call it the dead sheep effect.
Some horses also scald when they get hot in sheepskin you this a lot in hunters whose numahs get very hot and wet on a long day .
Horses vary enormously and itâ€™s important you listern to the horse as some will react violently to pads they donâ€™t like .
Of the shock absorbing type materials prolite came out as the best when some pressure testing was done .
Personally I donâ€™t get on well with prolite pads I find unmalleable to work on with and I wish the thickness of the standard padding in the pad before you add the shims was thinner .Having said all that Mr I hate dead sheep wears one.
The best result I ever experianced from chafing a pad was from a memory foam pad that you will find on the Paul Fielder web site .
We put the pad between the saddle cloth and the saddle and the horse raised his back and trotted away transformed that horse taught me a lot .
All the sticky type pads need treating with care as many horse donâ€™t like them and they can cause fascia damage if you put them directly on the horse .

For OP I would recommend the nu med Griffin numah with memory foam . They are thin donâ€™t interfere with the saddle fit you can get them with sheepskin if you want to and you can add shims if you ever need them .


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## milliepops (13 November 2018)

Really interesting discussion. I can't imagine we'll get to a position where all the various products are independently tested in a variety of ways though, it sounds like the cost would be sky high and when all is said and done, consumers will still probably pick based on the best marketing or best price, or something.

GS's post is a good one, horses pick unexpected things sometimes!  I am pleased with my YHL splurge so far, 2 rides on 2 horses at opposite ends of the training spectrum, both feel softer in their backs. One previously wore either a prolite type or acavallo depending on the numnah thickness, the other wore nothing before... I would love to see the science but for now I will have to settle for my own anecdotes!


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## HufflyPuffly (13 November 2018)

I agree a very interesting discussion!

I'm a little confused as to the rider safety aspect, as rotational falls were mentioned, if your horse is going to fall then surely 1. the pad you use is really of a very small consequence to what is about to happen and 2. you actually want to be pinged out and away from the saddle (being squished under the horse is ill advised). Sorry talking as someone who was very lucky to walk away from one.

Which materials used for pads are the non-newtonian fluids ones? It's a really interesting thought, as I use the acavallo gel pads currently as deadsheep was too thick under my saddle, but maybe I should be looking to have them fitted with deadsheep? 

MP the VIP sounds intriguing, how thick is it? I will admit I'd dismissed it to the 'new fad' category but maybe I've been hasty as I've not seen one in the flesh yet.


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## milliepops (13 November 2018)

AlexHyde said:



			MP the VIP sounds intriguing, how thick is it? I will admit I'd dismissed it to the 'new fad' category but maybe I've been hasty as I've not seen one in the flesh yet.
		
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no thicker than a standard acavallo, I have the thin one with sheepskin round the edge
Feels very different though, when you pinch it together between your fingers you can feel the gel move but you can't really pinch all the way through if you know what I mean? It's quite weird stuff, I don't know the physics but it was not the same!  and not at all sticky so if you use gel to keep things in place it won't work. It sat nicely under the saddle for Salty, I might have to think again for Kira if she drops off at all over winter as the saddle will be a touch wide then and they don't recommend combining it with anything, though tbh if she needs a shim at the front then so be it.


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## DabDab (13 November 2018)

milliepops said:



			Really interesting discussion. I can't imagine we'll get to a position where all the various products are independently tested in a variety of ways though, it sounds like the cost would be sky high and when all is said and done, consumers will still probably pick based on the best marketing or best price, or something.

GS's post is a good one, horses pick unexpected things sometimes!  I am pleased with my YHL splurge so far, 2 rides on 2 horses at opposite ends of the training spectrum, both feel softer in their backs. One previously wore either a prolite type or acavallo depending on the numnah thickness, the other wore nothing before... I would love to see the science but for now I will have to settle for my own anecdotes!
		
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Completely agree. I think often the most effective products, while they do have a scientific basis as a starting point, they're often designed with a large dose of just general good intuition. 

And likewise, when we're buying and using them a lot of it is down to our intuition. We can get a pretty good idea of how a material will respond to a horse's back by touching/leaning on/squishing it ourselves, because our biological makeup is similar enough to a horse's to give us a good idea.


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## HufflyPuffly (13 November 2018)

milliepops said:



			no thicker than a standard acavallo, I have the thin one with sheepskin round the edge
Feels very different though, when you pinch it together between your fingers you can feel the gel move but you can't really pinch all the way through if you know what I mean? It's quite weird stuff, I don't know the physics but it was not the same!  and not at all sticky so if you use gel to keep things in place it won't work. It sat nicely under the saddle for Salty, I might have to think again for Kira if she drops off at all over winter as the saddle will be a touch wide then and they don't recommend combining it with anything, though tbh if she needs a shim at the front then so be it.
		
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Hmm might have to try and see one in the flesh, only the best from the little carriage pests .


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## leflynn (13 November 2018)

I'm curious about the VIP too, I use a prolite and a sheepskin half pad atm (one on each saddle).  I did find the cheaper version of the VIP and emailed to see if they would ship to the UK but they haven't replied as yet, also found them ebay for a little bit more


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## sbloom (13 November 2018)

DabDab said:



			Sorry might be me being dense, but which manufacturer are you talking about? There have been quite a few mentioned on this thread.
What's the rider safety angle? Reducing impact up spine?
...
If used well this has the potential to be a seriously clever use of materials and piece of design. But not many of the advantages given by this design can be captured by a bowling ball drop test. And I'm just wary of corner cutting competitors who will cotton on that this is the only test that consumers look at, and therefore they just have to make something that does really well in that test (without any of the other big benefits).

Hope that's not too rambley and makes enough sense 

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No, a great post.  I am talking about XRD and D30 manufacturers specifically if you mean the products that really work.  Rider safety you need to watch the vidoes, Jen Hegeman knows way more about it than I do, she has worked in this industry as a specialist for many years.  I have commented a little more to Alex below.

And agreed, the bowling ball test cannot replace proper product development and testing, but at least it's a fraction more scientific than just BS marketing and rider sponsorship.  Which is what most people base their buying decisions on.



Goldenstar said:



			Sheepskin does not suit some horses I own one who lies down if you try to mount him when heâ€™s got one on ,we call it the dead sheep effect.
Some horses also scald when they get hot in sheepskin you this a lot in hunters whose numahs get very hot and wet on a long day .
Horses vary enormously and itâ€™s important you listern to the horse as some will react violently to pads they donâ€™t like .
Of the shock absorbing type materials prolite came out as the best when some pressure testing was done .
Personally I donâ€™t get on well with prolite pads I find unmalleable to work on with and I wish the thickness of the standard padding in the pad before you add the shims was thinner .Having said all that Mr I hate dead sheep wears one.
The best result I ever experianced from chafing a pad was from a memory foam pad that you will find on the Paul Fielder web site .
We put the pad between the saddle cloth and the saddle and the horse raised his back and trotted away transformed that horse taught me a lot .
All the sticky type pads need treating with care as many horse donâ€™t like them and they can cause fascia damage if you put them directly on the horse .

For OP I would recommend the nu med Griffin numah with memory foam . They are thin donâ€™t interfere with the saddle fit you can get them with sheepskin if you want to and you can add shims if you ever need them .
		
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Sheepskin - I do know some horses that do not get on with it, but I would suspect that the "scalding" is potentially rubs from dirt in the pad, they actually cool the back as they draw sweat away.  Endurance horses have their pads changed as often as possible and are not going through the hot-cold cycles that hunt horses can, so I would not like to pin the issues down to heat.  Heat readings can be sky high under the old tombstone gel pads, horrific things.

Prolite - I would like to know what the pressure testing was, what it was tested against. and how long ago it was tested.  Even Prolite admits it only takes out 25% shock, the pads demonstrably absorb WAY more than that, 90%+ in most cases (Thinline, Poron XRD and D30).  The thing I like the least is the shims, they leave a distinct edge under the middle of the saddle, especially when you choose the thicker shims.  I use only felt and trim each shim to make a set into a wedge.  5mm edge which compresses to less than that.  Foam shims that don't leave edges tend to be too soft to do a lot.  Now SOME of that is personal style and fitting, just as saddle fitters fit saddles in different ways, but I don't like the set up.  Nor the Le Mieux shims which I suspect are good old fashioned low performance EVA foam.

You can't get a NuuMed sheepskin pad.  And I loathed the Paul Fielder pad I saw.  The base pad, to take shims, was so hard you could literally knock it and make a noise.  Sorry, not something I would ever recommend.

I do agree that you must listen to the horse, I have said that all the way along, I'm trying to avoid people wasting money on a product that doesn't really do what it implies it does, because of marketing.



AlexHyde said:



			I agree a very interesting discussion!

I'm a little confused as to the rider safety aspect, as rotational falls were mentioned, if your horse is going to fall then surely 1. the pad you use is really of a very small consequence to what is about to happen and 2. you actually want to be pinged out and away from the saddle (being squished under the horse is ill advised). Sorry talking as someone who was very lucky to walk away from one.

Which materials used for pads are the non-newtonian fluids ones? It's a really interesting thought, as I use the acavallo gel pads currently as deadsheep was too thick under my saddle, but maybe I should be looking to have them fitted with deadsheep?

MP the VIP sounds intriguing, how thick is it? I will admit I'd dismissed it to the 'new fad' category but maybe I've been hasty as I've not seen one in the flesh yet.
		
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Rotational falls shouldn't have been mentioned, my mistake, but any time a rider is potentially going to have a fall (and we all know this is a DANGEROUS sport) you do not want your tack contributing to it.  Please see the Truth Tack Review videos, some panel materials (French close contact brands especially, high end stuff) actually bounce, they actually add to the risk, not detract from it.  So this is about reducing the odds, using high tech materials, as other sports do.  We lag a long way behind.

I don't think Thinline is a non-Newtonian fluid, but Poron XRD and D30 both are, and it is these I allude to performing at the highest levels.

If the Acavallo works for you great, but there are much better options with better science behind them.  Acavallo plus sheepskin will affect the fit of your saddle.


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## sbloom (13 November 2018)

VIP is made from Akton, here is the shock absorption, from 2201lb to 941lb, a reduction of around 60%.

http://www.akton.com/files/physical-testing.pdf

For the scientists here are the datasheets for XRD and D30:

http://algeos.us/pdfs/PORONXRDDataSheet.pdf
https://www.d3o.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/set-foams.pdf (XT, second down on the table)

There is perhaps only one product mentioned so far that I would say is a bad product, but my experience of it seems to indicate there were perhaps different forms of it (the Paul Fielder pad), the rest are all okay products, but some are great products that the experts in the field are starting to embrace.


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## Goldenstar (13 November 2018)

The Paul Fielder pad I had was very soft memory foam no shims a very simple pad .
I should have said wool lined for the nu med numah with memory foam .


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## sbloom (13 November 2018)

Totally different to the one I saw, it really was like cardboard.  I always try and stress sheepskin versus wool as they are quite different products with different performance.

Memory foam is an interesting one.  If thick enough it can pass a bowling ball test pretty well, but by definition it is usually slow recovery (think about how slowly your mattress "bounces back" as you move) so to me is contraindicated for a saddle pad that needs to react quickly.  Again, if your horse likes it, no problem.

The only definition of a memory foam that I can find of is that it is a visco-elastic foam that becomes more pliable once warm.  There is huge variation within the category, rate of recovery, open cell, closed cell, heat absorption...we think of Tempur and think it must always be a good product, but is it designed for the use you have in mind?  I think lots of products can feel lovely to us, but not be any good to put on a saddle.  XRD feels pretty firm, not that lovely feel you get from memory foam, yet it really is one of the best things you can put under your saddle.


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## DabDab (13 November 2018)

Ah, great, thanks for links - 'tis interesting.

Akton is quite an old and well known product now. Just a standard visco elastic polymer (so turns most absorbed force into heat), but it is a high performing one that has been used successfully in lots of applications. Depending on how thick it is I possibly wouldn't want to use it for racing or xc, but can imagine it would be good on a dressage/hacking/etc horse. Really tempted to get one for my big pssm horse actually - I should think it would suit him.

XRD looks interesting....I assume they are soaking the foam in the non-newtonian fluid, much like they're starting to do with Kevlar for body armour applications. I'd be interested to see it if there is a stand at any shows. Which products have it in?


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## Goldenstar (13 November 2018)

The thing that will most help your horses back is a well balanced saddle thatâ€™s the apporiate length no amount of clever pads will make that any less important.
But I am all for people thinking about and trying new things.
I have had great service out of the numed thin memory foam numahs with our hunters and hunting is in my experiance one of hardest tests of all kit getting a jumping saddle comfy for a twenty minute use for xc is one thing getting it comfy over a six hour days hunting where the horse will change shape through the day is quite another .


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## HufflyPuffly (13 November 2018)

Goldenstar said:



			The thing that will most help your horses back is a well balanced saddle thatâ€™s the apporiate length no amount of clever pads will make that any less important.
But I am all for people thinking about and trying new things.
I have had great service out of the numed thin memory foam numahs with our hunters and hunting is in my experiance one of hardest tests of all kit getting a jumping saddle comfy for a twenty minute use for xc is one thing getting it comfy over a six hour days hunting where the horse will change shape through the day is quite another .
		
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I agree with this ^, sheepskin would alter the fit of my saddles so I sought out an alternative that was thinner, as obviously the fit of the saddle is the most important. 

For dressage and a bit a jumping, I'm not sure we 'really' need anything more high tech to be honest, and I'm still a little puzzled at a pad keeping you in the saddle when other forces must be stronger, but I'm enjoying the discussion .

Off to nosy at the materials mentioned up-thread .


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## Goldenstar (13 November 2018)

Thereâ€™s no doubt that that final three percent of performance can be affected by the prices of kit that come under the extras umbrella .
I dislike riding a horse with a lot between the saddle and the horse and I think I know which types of pads I am happiest with on each horse .
I have said on an earlier post I prefer the numed thin numahs with a thin layer of memory form .
I just feel my saddles sit well using these and the horses are happy one horse uses a prolite with a rear raiser I prefer the look of the fit without the rear raised but the horse has been adamant this what he likes .


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## minimex2 (13 November 2018)

wow - as OP want to thank you all for your contribution - 

do we want to add the winderen pad into the mix?

seems the most expensive of them all but are made up of 4 different materials.

they have an impressive graph - but not being scientific or technical don't know what the key 'ms' or 'j' relate to


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## Casey76 (13 November 2018)

I must admit all this talk of pads etc mais me wonder if Iâ€™m missing out on anything!  I usually ride with only a standard saddle cloth underneath them (with a nid dâ€™abeille underside for preference). Blitz has a dead sheep (Mattes) half pad to use when he drops off at the autumn field change, but as soon as he picks up again I take it off.

Iâ€™ve ridden horses with assorted gel pads etc under them and I always feel too far from the horse and a bit unstable with then (though granted it could be a placebo effect!)


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## milliepops (13 November 2018)

Casey76 said:



			I must admit all this talk of pads etc mais me wonder if Iâ€™m missing out on anything!  I usually ride with only a standard saddle cloth underneath them (with a nid dâ€™abeille underside for preference). Blitz has a dead sheep (Mattes) half pad to use when he drops off at the autumn field change, but as soon as he picks up again I take it off.

Iâ€™ve ridden horses with assorted gel pads etc under them and I always feel too far from the horse and a bit unstable with then (though granted it could be a placebo effect!)
		
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Personally, I use a pad in the first instance to improve saddle fit. And then given that I need to have something, it might as well be the best thing I can choose for that horse.
At the moment, Kira and Salty are almost the same shaped back, K could probably do with a little shim in the front if we stick with the VIP and I will need to look at this as we go into winter (though if they have to be stabled as much as last year it may not be an issue, they eat hay ALL day!)
my dressage saddle has foam panels and is not adjustable, I know this is anathema to some but it works for my horses, physio always gives a clean bill of health and they are happy in their work so ultimately they are the best feedback to me.

I think the feel is a very personal thing, I really like my close contact saddle but also  like the way the horses go under flair, others couldn't stand either


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## Goldenstar (13 November 2018)

I was great fan of flair and had five flair dressage saddles in various sizes .
I quickly went off flair for jumping I found it ok for small jumps but over bigger things I think the air moves away from the points on landing causing a nip on senestive horses .
But for flat work I used these saddles for years they where ideal Jessicaâ€™s then as I had fewer horses and less turnover I went for customs flocked saddles I have now have fairfaxes which suit me so well and one Albion but thereâ€™s the odd time I regret not keeping one medium wide Jessica with flair .


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## Otherwise (13 November 2018)

DabDab said:



			XRD looks interesting....I assume they are soaking the foam in the non-newtonian fluid, much like they're starting to do with Kevlar for body armour applications. I'd be interested to see it if there is a stand at any shows. Which products have it in?
		
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The only one I know of is Toklat but I can't seem to find a UK supplier


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## sbloom (13 November 2018)

DabDab said:



			XRD looks interesting....I assume they are soaking the foam in the non-newtonian fluid, much like they're starting to do with Kevlar for body armour applications. I'd be interested to see it if there is a stand at any shows. Which products have it in?
		
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Hah the joys of a semi tecchie, me, talking to a full on tecchie, no the foams "behave as non-Newtonian fluids". 

You have the links for the pads I think, Woofwear uses XRD in their top of the range overreach boots, otherwise you'd have to Google.  They are expensive products and seem to be little used in equine products.  Jen Hegeman calls them molecular foams, they do not fall into the regular categories.

Akton - I would be further slightly concerned by breathability.



Goldenstar said:



			The thing that will most help your horses back is a well balanced saddle thatâ€™s the apporiate length no amount of clever pads will make that any less important.
		
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That is the most important thing.  However I see what difference more shock absorption makes to many horses, panel materials are generally not great shock absorbers and that includes flocking.  They do so much but a good pad can do much more.



minimex2 said:



			wow - as OP want to thank you all for your contribution -

do we want to add the winderen pad into the mix?

seems the most expensive of them all but are made up of 4 different materials.

they have an impressive graph - but not being scientific or technical don't know what the key 'ms' or 'j' relate to
		
Click to expand...

The yellow I am sure is XRD, further to that I do not know.



Casey76 said:



			Iâ€™ve ridden horses with assorted gel pads etc under them and I always feel too far from the horse and a bit unstable with then (though granted it could be a placebo effect!)
		
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I fit only wide horses, stability is my thing, and with the right saddle, fitted to accommodate it, you shouldn't feel like this, and most don't.  Will depend on the pad though, as you are seeing there are good and not so good.


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## sbloom (13 November 2018)

Oh and no need to pay import duties on Thinline (though I don't really recommend the shim pads) - https://thinlineglobal.eu/?v=d3dcf429c679.  I think this is the least expensive most versatile option https://thinlineglobal.eu/shop/jumping/basic-untrimmed-thinline-pad?v=d3dcf429c679.


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## Rosiejazzandpia (13 November 2018)

A very interesting read. I ride with a sheepskin pad with the saddle fitter to accommodate this. I wondered whay peoples opinions are of the premier equine sheepskin pads, and their shockproof pads. Are they actually shock absorbing? I rode in one borrowed from a friend and horse seemed to like It, it certainly was well ventilated and kept everything cool and dry


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## sbloom (13 November 2018)

Rosiejazzandpia said:



			I wondered whay peoples opinions are of the premier equine sheepskin pads, and their shockproof pads. Are they actually shock absorbing? I rode in one borrowed from a friend and horse seemed to like It, it certainly was well ventilated and kept everything cool and dry
		
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I suppose the aim is to get people to be more questioning, which you are with your question here, but what is the material?  Can you go to the source material to see what it was designed for, how it preforms?  If they don't tell you what it is then it's probably just an EVA foam and has only very mediocre shock absorbancy.  

PE have always been great at marketing, some great products, but some downsides.  Merino wool will probably not be as shock absorbiing as British wool (to do with microns of the fibres) but if 30mm medical grade then it will be good.  The foam...hmmm...lots of flummoxy wording - "Airtechnology"?!  I'm sorry but I'd be buying from companies that don't baffle with BS, not PE in this case.  The company is trying to A stop anyone else using the foam if it's any good by rebranding it as their own, and B stopping anyone finding out if it IS any good.


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## Otherwise (13 November 2018)

minimex2 said:



			do we want to add the winderen pad into the mix?

seems the most expensive of them all but are made up of 4 different materials.

they have an impressive graph - but not being scientific or technical don't know what the key 'ms' or 'j' relate to
		
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I wish they'd name the materials rather than just say a force equalising non-newtonian material, it makes it hard to directly compare it to other pads. The Invictus isn't much cheaper but you can at least research the D30 XT they use, they might both be good pads or one might be better than the other but you have no easy way of finding out.


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## sbloom (13 November 2018)

I did link to the data sheets on both, one's US imperial and one metric but my OH has a background in materials engineering so at some point he'll do me a spreadsheet.  Might need to search further on Akton because it doesn't seem to have as much info on the sheet I found  However comparing them in the real world means buying one of each and testing them...but equally trying to suss out how many horses prefer each one.  A lot of work!


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## Tarragon (13 November 2018)

Casey76 said:



			I must admit all this talk of pads etc mais me wonder if Iâ€™m missing out on anything!  I usually ride with only a standard saddle cloth underneath them (with a nid dâ€™abeille underside for preference). Blitz has a dead sheep (Mattes) half pad to use when he drops off at the autumn field change, but as soon as he picks up again I take it off.

Iâ€™ve ridden horses with assorted gel pads etc under them and I always feel too far from the horse and a bit unstable with then (though granted it could be a placebo effect!)
		
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This is me too.
I have been trying to follow the post but I think I am missing something basic here. 
I always thought that the aim was to get a well fitting saddle and then keep the saddle clean by having a minimal saddle cloth between the horse and the saddle. 
I ride a pony and if the saddle pad/cloth is too thick it is very easy to feel perched on top. 
Are you all saying that having additional shock absorbing material is something we should have?


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## sbloom (13 November 2018)

I think that for many horses it's a great idea, but you do have to be in a position to potentially have your saddle adjusted to take it.  Occasionally a thick pad isn't possible with a particular saddle, ie it can't be adjusted appropriately and fit well, but usually it can.

Now in the real world I fit at least 50% of the saddles I fit with a thin cotton numnah, and I will not try and persuade anyone to buy a pad like this unless their horse is a remedial fit, either with a lack of topine, or with actual muscle loss, or if especially sensitive.  And in many of those cases I'll work with what they have - a merino pad, a Prolite, or an Acavallo (probably the most common that people own, hence my frustration with the marketing).  

Some horses, many horses, go noticeably better with at least a sheepskin underneath but I have customers who can feel the difference in their horse's way of going from just a low density thin XRD layer put into the pockets of their top notch Mattes sheepskin pad, some stuff I got as samples.  

There is a move across the industry, with back people too, to use these wonderful materials under saddles, to give a compressible layer for them to expand their soft tissue into (medical grade sheepskin probably being the best) or for shock absorption, where often the pads are a little firm for it to provide expansion space but more than make up for it with the technology as discussed.

All horses are different


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## Tarragon (13 November 2018)

That does make sense. Thanks. 
Food for thought!


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## milliepops (13 November 2018)

Tarragon said:



			This is me too.
I have been trying to follow the post but I think I am missing something basic here.
I always thought that the aim was to get a well fitting saddle and then keep the saddle clean by having a minimal saddle cloth between the horse and the saddle.
I ride a pony and if the saddle pad/cloth is too thick it is very easy to feel perched on top.
Are you all saying that having additional shock absorbing material is something we should have?
		
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Answering as a horse owner and dressage rider, I have a saddle that fits both horses "reasonably" and I tweak it with shims or pads.  At the moment it's slightly too wide for one, and fits the other well with just a normal saddle pad.  I can't afford to buy 2 saddles, they're spectacularly expensive and I don't consider it necessary tbh when the arrangement I have is working well.  I would prefer to buy on the marginally wide side and pad anyway, to allow for seasonal changes in condition.  Not everyone would agree, but I'm happy with how my horses feel.

I have had various pads for the narrower horse, my interest in experimenting with them is to find the optimum comfort for this horse who is competing at small tour and training higher, at this point, every little really does help...
the younger horse might get some benefit at her much lower level of training, if I have the kit available to try then it does no harm.


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## DabDab (14 November 2018)

sbloom said:



			Hah the joys of a semi tecchie, me, talking to a full on tecchie, no the foams "behave as non-Newtonian fluids".

You have the links for the pads I think, Woofwear uses XRD in their top of the range overreach boots, otherwise you'd have to Google.  They are expensive products and seem to be little used in equine products.  Jen Hegeman calls them molecular foams, they do not fall into the regular categories.

Akton - I would be further slightly concerned by breathability.



That is the most important thing.  However I see what difference more shock absorption makes to many horses, panel materials are generally not great shock absorbers and that includes flocking.  They do so much but a good pad can do much more.



The yellow I am sure is XRD, further to that I do not know.



I fit only wide horses, stability is my thing, and with the right saddle, fitted to accommodate it, you shouldn't feel like this, and most don't.  Will depend on the pad though, as you are seeing there are good and not so good.
		
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Ah gotcha, yeah that makes sense. 

Well I have just bought a VIP pad, and have two very different horses to play with it on, so will report back if anyone's interested


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## minimex2 (14 November 2018)

DabDab said:



			Ah gotcha, yeah that makes sense.

Well I have just bought a VIP pad, and have two very different horses to play with it on, so will report back if anyone's interested
		
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Yes please - and if you happen to have a bowling ball  or golf ball - can you do the drop test!


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## DabDab (22 November 2018)

Ok, so VIP received and tried on one horse. 

So far I am really pleased with it. It is a bit long for my mare's 16.5" saddle, and because it's coloured it will be very noticeable if I want to compete with it, so would probably have to make a pocket in a white saddle cloth for the back of it to tuck out of site. 

Arty is only fairly young and uneducated, and has a very powerful back end so naturally tends to over rely on that when moving, with a high head carriage and not much swing and movement in her back. So the aim of her training at the moment is getting her to soften over her top line and swing through her back more. And then I can start educating her about seat aids . At the start today it wasn't the best circumstances to test a new thing as some horses had moved into the field next to my school overnight, so everything was a bit tense for the first 10 minutes. But then she flicked a switch and settled and the following work was really really lovely. We had a good 20 mins of soft and swingy, even when I was asking some new questions of her (which is where she usually reverts to type and tightens up). Don't know how much of that I could reliably put down to the pad, but it certainly wasn't doing any harm, and I'm conservatively pleased with it so far. There was also no noticeable heat difference under where the pad was sitting, but then it was blummin freezing this morning and she's not doing anything near sweat inducing.

I haven't dropped anything on it yet 

Hope that's helpful


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## milliepops (22 November 2018)

Interesting stuff DabDab ðŸ˜‰
I'm nearly 2 weeks in and definitely pleased with mine, more swing and reliable  connection from salty and kira feels easier in her back and easier to access the back raised-hindlegs under work that she needs to develop to progress further.
I have had a variety of pads over the years and I do think they both like this best so far.


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## Red-1 (9 December 2018)

So, looking at this thread and the other, I decided to treat the mare and went and ordered a Thinline pad. I got the ginormous "ultra" one, as that is what seemed to be the best for maximum coverage without bulk.

It came quite quickly to say it was from abroad, and I realised that I probably had not needed the XL one, so I trimmed it a bit so it would not be an actual rug (!) and gave her a ride.

Her verdict?

She says I can shove the fancy pad where the sun don't shine (I presume she means the tack room) as she prefers the saddle with a thin numnah.

Pah, horses!
Read more at https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/...s-or-alternatives.769409/#hdjBwwUWPSMgeuIO.99


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## milliepops (9 December 2018)

ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚
Mine are still liking the VIP ðŸ˜„


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## DabDab (9 December 2018)

Oh dear red! There's no accounting for taste ðŸ˜


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## Red-1 (9 December 2018)

I hope that if she loses weight she will appreciate it then! She is very expressive about what does or does not suit her, it was just a disappointment that the super Xmas present to her was such a flop!


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## DZ2 (17 June 2020)

sbloom said:



			The only definition of a memory foam that I can find of is that it is a visco-elastic foam that becomes more pliable once warm.  There is huge variation within the category, rate of recovery, open cell, closed cell, heat absorption...we think of Tempur and think it must always be a good product, but is it designed for the use you have in mind?  I think lots of products can feel lovely to us, but not be any good to put on a saddle.  XRD feels pretty firm, not that lovely feel you get from memory foam, yet it really is one of the best things you can put under your saddle.
		
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Resurrecting an old thread but just wanted to share my experience and to thank Sbloom for excellent advice.

My kissing spine horse is coming back to work after an operation and a year off and I've been looking into all those pads (VIP etc.) to make him as comfortable as possible. After reading this I've decided to try xrd poron inserts; I bought sheets of xrd from amazon and cut to shape (saddle is fitted with sheepskin underneath which has shim pockets). Wow what a noticeable improvement in how he moves! so much looser and more forward.


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## milliepops (17 June 2020)

DZ2 said:



			Resurrecting an old thread but just wanted to share my experience and to thank Sbloom for excellent advice.

My kissing spine horse is coming back to work after an operation and a year off and I've been looking into all those pads (VIP etc.) to make him as comfortable as possible. After reading this I've decided to try xrd poron inserts; I bought sheets of xrd from amazon and cut to shape (saddle is fitted with sheepskin underneath which has shim pockets). Wow what a noticeable improvement in how he moves! so much looser and more forward.
		
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which thickness did you go for, out of interest?


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## DZ2 (17 June 2020)

milliepops said:



			which thickness did you go for, out of interest?
		
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 6 mm, it's the only one I could find available to buy, and also I figured this won't affect saddle fit (not much anyway).


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## sbloom (17 June 2020)

DZ2 said:



			Resurrecting an old thread but just wanted to share my experience and to thank Sbloom for excellent advice.

My kissing spine horse is coming back to work after an operation and a year off and I've been looking into all those pads (VIP etc.) to make him as comfortable as possible. After reading this I've decided to try xrd poron inserts; I bought sheets of xrd from amazon and cut to shape (saddle is fitted with sheepskin underneath which has shim pockets). Wow what a noticeable improvement in how he moves! so much looser and more forward.
		
Click to expand...

Brilliant, just wish I could get hold of it wholesale but at least you can find it retail


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## Silver Clouds (17 June 2020)

Having a quick look on Ebay there are a range of XRD poron sheet sizes and thicknesses available from approx 1.6-6.5mm thick (not wholesale prices though)


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## KEK (20 July 2020)

Hi does anyone mind sharing the link for the XRD poron? I could only find 1 listing, on Amazon
https://www.amazon.com.au/dp/B07KQH9KP1/ref=twister_B081SCK756?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
The 3/8 thickness is $150 so pretty $$$. Couldn't find it on eBay at all. TIA!


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