# Osama Bin Laden is Dead



## CanadianGirl (2 May 2011)

I can't believe it!  Just about to watch Obama give a live press conference on it.


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## Vindaloo (2 May 2011)

Just saw your post and quickly turned on the news!  Goodness, looks as though they really have managed it.  

Can't help but wonder what will happen now.  Of course the man needed to be stopped but will the retaliation be horrific? 

It will be interesting to see what happens now.


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## Sugarplum Furry (2 May 2011)

According to a lot of sources, Bin Laden died 10 years ago from renal failure. It's only now that it's been decided to release the news of his death, because it was thought that 'the world wasn't ready for the news' before.


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## AndySpooner (2 May 2011)

People don't half talk some crap.


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## perfect11s (2 May 2011)

gala said:



			According to a lot of sources, Bin Laden died 10 years ago from renal failure. It's only now that it's been decided to release the news of his death, because it was thought that 'the world wasn't ready for the news' before.
		
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 Maybe you should email  Obarma and say  prove it !! lets see the body layed out  on the white house lawn


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## Dovorian (2 May 2011)

I thought the same - couldn't get a clear idea of how they knew it was him for sure.. assuming they believed that they were atacking a location where he was it still seems amazing.


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## JosieB (2 May 2011)

There is a pic of him dead on the DM page. He was shot in the head. Wonder if they did it after capturing him or actually during the gunfight as they say. Well he will be a martyr now and will be up with his 77 virgins.


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## perfect11s (2 May 2011)

Dovorian said:



			I thought the same - couldn't get a clear idea of how they knew it was him for sure.. assuming they believed that they were atacking a location where he was it still seems amazing.
		
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 Aparently  they worked out where he was holed up and just like in the movies they surounded the compound  and kicked down the door .... Well done you guys   fantastic news .......


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## Miss L Toe (2 May 2011)

Wow, all the kings horses and all the kings men...... ten years on and he may be dead, No doubt there's another one to take his place, so don't expect a declaration of world peace just yet.


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## SonnysHumanSlave (2 May 2011)

Absolute fantastic news. To bring a bit of consolidation to those families and friends affected by the 9/11 attacks. 

I have seen the pic of his body.... Google it, it's definatley him! 

I think we got his number 2 last week.... So we will be safe for a while until they find another leader!


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## Ashgrove (2 May 2011)

I think it's right that he was killed, but the back lash could be a bit strong.


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## lannerch (2 May 2011)

Definatly good news.

However there will be one filling his shoes already. He was a madman but a very intelligent mad man to get away with what he did and mastermind what he did so a step in the right direction.


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## amandap (2 May 2011)

Bloomin heck. I need to put the news on!


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## eb1989 (2 May 2011)

woooooooo!!! thank god for that! however cant help but feel uneasy about what kind of back lash will happen


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## moosea (2 May 2011)

Anyone read George Orwells nineteen eighty four?


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## sakura (2 May 2011)

Ten years on, it's certainly very good news, well done USA

it's not over yet, but this was a pretty major chapter


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## junglefairy (2 May 2011)

So now Bin Laden is a martyr, great. The US has the opportunity to take the higher moral ground by capturing Bin Laden and trying him in court. It also seems like many people don't believe Bin Laden is even dead due to the way this has been handled. The stupidity of the Americans never ceases to amaze me, I don't know what I believe but I'm sure it could have been handled better. The rejoicing in the streets makes pretty uncomfortable viewing too, I thought we are supposed to be a 'civilized' society.


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## trick123 (2 May 2011)

junglefairy said:



			So now Bin Laden is a martyr, great. The US has the opportunity to take the higher moral ground by capturing Bin Laden and trying him in court. It also seems like many people don't believe Bin Laden is even dead due to the way this has been handled. The stupidity of the Americans never ceases to amaze me, I don't know what I believe but I'm sure it could have been handled better. The rejoicing in the streets makes pretty uncomfortable viewing too, I thought we are supposed to be a 'civilized' society.
		
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My thoughts too about the rejoicing, be very scared thats all I can say, the backlash could be viscious.


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## perfect11s (2 May 2011)

trick123 said:



			My thoughts too about the rejoicing, be very scared thats all I can say, the backlash could be viscious.
		
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 what back lash ??? from  who???? bring it on !!!lets find and  kill more of them.... and rejoicing  well its good to  after the thousands he and his terrorist thugs killed and gloated about  sadly it seems his death was quick not like the 100s his henchmen have tortured .......


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## HashRouge (2 May 2011)

The picture was a hoax....I do think they need to provide definitive proof that he's dead, although I do believe it.


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## sakura (2 May 2011)

I don't want any evidence myself, but I don't think they can win - whatever they produce someone will be there to falsify it, I'm happy to take what they say as the truth, personally

Someone will be there to take his place, but any attacks they carry out, imo they would carry out regardless. Only difference is they'll probs use this as their 'excuse'


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## CanadianGirl (2 May 2011)

I was shocked to see all the people in New York out in the streets shouting.  It was uncomfortably close to the video we see of people in the middle east, shouting anti-American sentiments.  

I'm worried about any backlash that could take place.  I agree that even if they have killed him, his terrorist group will live on.


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## onemoretime (2 May 2011)

AndySpooner said:



			People don't half talk some crap.
		
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Couldn't agree more!!


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## Cadfael&Coffee (2 May 2011)

Does anyone know what Pakistan have said about this?


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## CanadianGirl (2 May 2011)

AndySpooner said:



			People don't half talk some crap.
		
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I don't know what this term means.


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## perfect11s (2 May 2011)

CanadianGirl said:



			I don't know what this term means.
		
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 Crap smelly stuff that comes out  of animal or persons rear end !!!!


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## perfect11s (2 May 2011)

Cadfael&Coffee said:



			Does anyone know what Pakistan have said about this?
		
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 I would think they are keeping stum as aparently he was in or close to a millitary town garrison ??? I wonder if there are any Taliban or  his gang in colchester


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## Cadfael&Coffee (2 May 2011)

Aye exactly- the Pakistani chappie seems to be very worried- will be interesting to see how this pans out


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## perfect11s (2 May 2011)

CanadianGirl said:



			I was shocked to see all the people in New York out in the streets shouting.  It was uncomfortably close to the video we see of people in the middle east, shouting anti-American sentiments.  

I'm worried about any backlash that could take place.  I agree that even if they have killed him, his terrorist group will live on.
		
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 I think it shows that people care about right and wrong!!!  mind I think the monster will soon grow another head so its a bit premiture to celebrate .... backlash is ok we just have to be stronger than them  , saddle up  round them up and hang em high......


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## junglefairy (2 May 2011)

If the Americans gave two hoots about right and wrong, or even knew the difference then they would have ordered Osama captured and tried, not killed. That is not justice, but revenge killing. It totally undermines any credibility the Americans may have left (not a lot in my eyes).


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## ozpoz (2 May 2011)

moosea said:



			Anyone read George Orwells nineteen eighty four?

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Yes, I have. 

This is all just b*****s.


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## mymare (2 May 2011)

Something just doesn't ring true about all this.  I don't believe it, sorry.




junglefairy said:



			So now Bin Laden is a martyr, great. The US has the opportunity to take the higher moral ground by capturing Bin Laden and trying him in court. It also seems like many people don't believe Bin Laden is even dead due to the way this has been handled. The stupidity of the Americans never ceases to amaze me, I don't know what I believe but I'm sure it could have been handled better. The rejoicing in the streets makes pretty uncomfortable viewing too, I thought we are supposed to be a 'civilized' society.
		
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^^ this.  The people celebrating in the street are as bad as the ones burning our poppies.


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## 1stclassalan (2 May 2011)

JosieB said:



			There is a pic of him dead on the DM page. He was shot in the head. Wonder if they did it after capturing him or actually during the gunfight as they say. Well he will be a martyr now and will be up with his 77 virgins.
		
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Er...hmm.... the figure often quoted is actually 72 not 77 - not that it makes the slightest difference as the Quor' An makes no such promises to anyone. 

The trouble with this "quotation" is the root of all fundamentalist propaganda - the book, is basically a series of rambling stories that would have made more sense to desert dwellers back in the middle ages - now that some of them are a bit thin, they need interprtation to bring out the TRUE meaning - and there's the problem.


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## 1stclassalan (2 May 2011)

ozpoz said:



			Yes, I have. 

This is all just b*****s.
		
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For me 1984 was much less a true vision of the future but a snap shot of 1947  - the year in which it was written - and the inspiration for the Ministry of Love could quite easily have been St Paul's Cathedral standing as it was in a sea of rubble - representing the one true faith which is of course a complete pack of lies from start to finish!

The best point made in the book is the idea of Blackwhiters - people who would willingly tell you black was white - these were themselves outdone by Duckspeakers - people who not only told you black was white but knew that it was true.


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## 1stclassalan (2 May 2011)

For my twopennyworth - Bin Laden has been grossly over exaggerated as the anti-Christ - he was only ever a money man who brought the wherewithal to others.

Al'Quaeda - the words simply mean "the network" never was this great organisation run from corporate headquarters with OBL at the top in a big chair - it's little groups of idealists doing their own thing separately and this is far more difficult to keep tabs on.

I do hope though - in those few seconds between waking and being blown away that the irony of the situation had time to sink in - OBL has had paranoid aversion to the modern world for years and never used a mobile phone, never occupied a room with a phone line or any technology - and now it seems that he was tracked down by not having them. Truly poetic.


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## ozpoz (2 May 2011)

I first read 1984 almost 35 years ago .. and re read it recently.

I find it  amazingly prophetic and disturbing, e.g  newspeak, and the description of news reporting being re edited to fit with propaganda. 
Not forgetting the dumbing down of ordinary people.


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## bryngelenponies (2 May 2011)

junglefairy said:



			If the Americans gave two hoots about right and wrong, or even knew the difference then they would have ordered Osama captured and tried, not killed. That is not justice, but revenge killing. It totally undermines any credibility the Americans may have left (not a lot in my eyes).
		
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And you don't think that would create an equal amount of animosity and uproar from his followers in their attempts to have him released? It's gone beyond simplistic revenge killing, to call it that undermines the scenario. By this stage he has gone far past any crimes against humanity- Mugabe still hasn't been tried for his crimes. I really fear the backlash to this, particularly the street parties we're seeing in places like New York.


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## perfect11s (2 May 2011)

junglefairy said:



			If the Americans gave two hoots about right and wrong, or even knew the difference then they would have ordered Osama captured and tried, not killed. That is not justice, but revenge killing. It totally undermines any credibility the Americans may have left (not a lot in my eyes).
		
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 It gives them credabilty in my view  that they stick up for justice!!  I supose if we had got to him first he would have had an army of  hand wringing uman rights lawyers, and social workers/medics  looking after him, then a inconclusive trial ending in aquital    and him claiming asylum  then benifits...


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## junglefairy (2 May 2011)

perfect11s said:



			It gives them credabilty in my view  that they stick up for justice!!  I supose if we had got to him first he would have had an army of  hand wringing uman rights lawyers, and social workers/medics  looking after him, then a inconclusive trial ending in aquital    and him claiming asylum  then benifits...
		
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The Nuremberg trials were pretty successful. I just personally believe that in a civilized society, for justice to work the rules must be the same for everyone. It is a slippery slope (which the Americans are already sliding with Guantanamo) to start convicting without fair trial. These guys may be evil monsters, but the principle of 'innocent until proven guilty' is should not be ignored. Once they are proven guilty, do what you want with them, and then you can take the moral high ground and claim justice has been done.


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## perfect11s (2 May 2011)

junglefairy said:



			The Nuremberg trials were pretty successful. I just personally believe that in a civilized society, for justice to work the rules must be the same for everyone. It is a slippery slope (which the Americans are already sliding with Guantanamo) to start convicting without fair trial. These guys may be evil monsters, but the principle of 'innocent until proven guilty' is should not be ignored. Once they are proven guilty, do what you want with them, and then you can take the moral high ground and claim justice has been done.
		
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Those trials were 60 odd years ago  AND before we went all soft and fuffy!!!!!!!!!!!


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## bryngelenponies (3 May 2011)

junglefairy said:



			The Nuremberg trials were pretty successful. I just personally believe that in a civilized society, for justice to work the rules must be the same for everyone. It is a slippery slope (which the Americans are already sliding with Guantanamo) to start convicting without fair trial. These guys may be evil monsters, but the principle of 'innocent until proven guilty' is should not be ignored. Once they are proven guilty, do what you want with them, and then you can take the moral high ground and claim justice has been done.
		
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All the Nuremberg Trials really accomplished was to confirm what everyone already knew- that's forgetting all the people who managed to escape the trials. The idea of justice is rather blurry, particularly internationally. Which court would he have answered to? Do you think that being legally declared guilty would have really achieved anything? The only thing it would have achieved would have been to incite huge unrest and upheaval amongst his supporters worldwide.


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## LizzyandToddy (3 May 2011)

I think it is a little sad all the street partying in america, they are no better than the very insurgents that they are trying to kill. There they are boasting about democracy and trying to force it upon others when really, well look at the pictures.

Yes those that unfortunately lost there lives in 7/11 have been 'vindicated', but now the terrorists will just strike back for Osama's death, its a vicious circle sadly.

By celebrating his death they are simply asking for trouble, making Osama more of a martyr for a cause. Which is going to achieve nothing other than reinforcement of the very culture they have tried to destroy.


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## EAST KENT (3 May 2011)

Oh there will be trouble aplenty alright,and I am not totally convinced.They slipped the body into the sea rather fast..why?In a way it is a little sad,much prefered the wily old soldier to be elusive forever and maintain his charisma.Not supporting his methods by the way, but I just hate all these self congratulately yanks,so bloomin` infantile.


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## Lynds (3 May 2011)

"I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that." Martin Luther King, Jr


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## DragonSlayer (3 May 2011)

EAST KENT said:



			Oh there will be trouble aplenty alright,and I am not totally convinced.They slipped the body into the sea rather fast..why?In a way it is a little sad,much prefered the wily old soldier to be elusive forever and maintain his charisma.Not supporting his methods by the way, but I just hate all these self congratulately yanks,so bloomin` infantile.
		
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Please don't insult ALL americans, we are not all the way you say.

That is all.


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## eb1989 (3 May 2011)

I just dread to think what will happen now. All i can say is next years olympics will most likely be overshadowed by the prospect of some lunatic blowing himself up. May of gotten rid of one shame about he hundreds of others left


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## Spudlet (3 May 2011)

Islam requires burial to take place within 24 hours of death - actually, by sunset on the day that death occurs (a sensible requirement, when you think that Islam came from very hot countries, long before refrigerated morgues and efficient embalming techniques were available - you really don't want people hanging about in those circumstances!). Hence the quick (to Western eyes) burial.


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## 1stclassalan (4 May 2011)

ozpoz said:



			I first read 1984 almost 35 years ago .. and re read it recently.

I find it  amazingly prophetic and disturbing, e.g  newspeak, and the description of news reporting being re edited to fit with propaganda. 
Not forgetting the dumbing down of ordinary people. 

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Interesting - which part did you find particularly prophetic? The news in 1947 was already being edited for purposes that had started during the war - founded in the commendable ideal of confusing the enemy but where does it stop?

In 1984 the war still continues between Oceania & Eurasia with England being Airstrip One - which is very Churchillian description of this country during the war and not futuristic.

Newspeak is definately the best thing in the book - and the dumbing down of the people by control of the language has already happened - innit? 

Have you ever read Farenheit 451 by Ray Bradbury ( not to be confused with any stupid conspriracy type Farenheit titles ) - it is set in an unnamed totalitarian state where books and the written word is banned - the hero ( or rather anti-hero ) Montag is a fireman - he goes around SETTING FIRE to people's houses found with books! In this future world most places are fireproof so there is no need for a convention fireman. He becomes curious and keeps a book instead of burning it........ 

Also in the story is the Mechanical Hound - there's a regular T.V. programme showing the hound being released and inexorably tracking down and killing some poor miscreant by lethal injection - the thing is - the miscreant isn't necessarily a criminal - it's anybody but the people are simply told he's a criminal - sound familar?

Ray Bradbury formed the idea of recreational drugs in his futureworld and overdose detox on demand, interactive soapoperas on wall sized T.V.'s that turn most housewives into mindless automatons - I'd say that this was truly prophetic!


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## 1stclassalan (4 May 2011)

junglefairy said:



			The Nuremberg trials were pretty successful. I just personally believe that in a civilized society, for justice to work the rules must be the same for everyone. It is a slippery slope (which the Americans are already sliding with Guantanamo) to start convicting without fair trial. These guys may be evil monsters, but the principle of 'innocent until proven guilty' is should not be ignored. Once they are proven guilty, do what you want with them, and then you can take the moral high ground and claim justice has been done.
		
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If you research the Nuremburg Trials - I think you will find that they were only successful in that they provided a legal format for hanging the first batch of folk to go through them - these included some lesser miscreants - by the time they got around to guys like Rudolf Hess sentences were commuted to long spells in prison - so not the same "justice" as you maintain. A show trial is what it is - a show trial - the outcome has usually been decided before it starts.

Prisoners in Guantanamo have not been convicted without fair trial - they are on extended remand - you will find people in Belmarsh banged up for similiar amounts of time, their trials continually postponed. The folk in Belmarsh weren't found wandering about in a foriegn warzone without good excuse and forthe most part confine themselves to robbing banks and such rather than terrorising the world.


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## 1stclassalan (4 May 2011)

Spudlet said:



			Islam requires burial to take place within 24 hours of death - actually, by sunset on the day that death occurs (a sensible requirement, when you think that Islam came from very hot countries, long before refrigerated morgues and efficient embalming techniques were available - you really don't want people hanging about in those circumstances!). Hence the quick (to Western eyes) burial.
		
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Islam is a fairly modern religion - it began with the prophet Mohammed ( great blessings be upon him ) during our Middle Ages - I think you will find that Eygptians had been embalming for about three thousand years by then! 

You're quite correct otherwise.


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## EAST KENT (4 May 2011)

DragonSlayer said:



			Please don't insult ALL americans, we are not all the way you say.

That is all.
		
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Oh and those brave and honourable Seals shot an unarmed man


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## Hanno Verian (4 May 2011)

junglefairy said:



			So now Bin Laden is a martyr, great. The US has the opportunity to take the higher moral ground by capturing Bin Laden and trying him in court. It also seems like many people don't believe Bin Laden is even dead due to the way this has been handled. The stupidity of the Americans never ceases to amaze me, I don't know what I believe but I'm sure it could have been handled better. The rejoicing in the streets makes pretty uncomfortable viewing too, I thought we are supposed to be a 'civilized' society.
		
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I'm sorry but get real....

Firstly..we can only guess at the circumstances in which he was killed, it may not have been possible to capture him alive, in the heat of a firefight you do not take chances.

Secondly..If he had been taken back to the US how long do you think it would be until Al Quaida were holding an airplane (or two..or three) full of passengers and wanting him freed.

There are a lot of fake dead OBL pics doing the rounds at the moment and an equal amount of crap being talked, yes in an ideal world OBL would be made to stand trial for his crimes, but this isn't the eutopia, for me better a dead martyr than a live revolutionary hero.


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## Alec Swan (4 May 2011)

Does anyone remember the Iranian Embassy siege?  The circumstances were slightly different,  I'll accept,  but the outcome was the same,  and rightly so.  

If we accept that "Leaders" are rarely the martyrs,  then it's surprising how the concept of an early demise seems to focus the mind!  Perhaps those who promote wanton slaughter,  feel that they're of more use to the "cause",  but in their back room capacity.

Topping the willing martyrs is a waist of time,  they're there for that anyway.  Threatening the promoters with death,  can often shorten the list of applicants!

Alec.


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## JadeWisc (4 May 2011)

junglefairy said:



			So now Bin Laden is a martyr, great. The US has the opportunity to take the higher moral ground by capturing Bin Laden and trying him in court. It also seems like many people don't believe Bin Laden is even dead due to the way this has been handled. The stupidity of the Americans never ceases to amaze me, I don't know what I believe but I'm sure it could have been handled better. The rejoicing in the streets makes pretty uncomfortable viewing too, I thought we are supposed to be a 'civilized' society.
		
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If you are naive enough to assume that the majority of Americans are jumping around in the streets shouting "USA! USA!"  than your stupidity amazes me.   Of course that is what they will be broadcasting ( that is news after all) when most people who feel like me about it all will hardly be running to the streets.


Your stupidity also amazes me if you you think he could have or would have been taken in alive.  You are more than welcome to your opinions but please keep your ignorant and generalized comments about America as a whole to yourself.  this is a big place remember filled with all kinds of people. Some with great minds and some with silly ones.


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## JadeWisc (4 May 2011)

EAST KENT said:



			Oh and those brave and honourable Seals shot an unarmed man
		
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I would love to see how you would have reacted in the scenario if you were there facing one of the most dangerous and unpredictable human beings on Earth. Those Seals are very brave and how awful of you to mock them.  He may not have been holding a gun but if anyone thinks that compound was not filled with weapons and people ready to kill anyone who entered is naive.  I also think many have given you great examples of why he really could not have been taken in alive.   

I am certain there will still be loss of life and attacks after this but let's *hope*   that it saves more than we lose as a result of the info obtained.  Any death sadddens and sickens me, even the death of the people in the compound that day.  Let's face it though, I doubt one of us could handle this situation ourselves and making these tough decisions sometimes has to be done. One will never know 100% what is the prefect move to make or what the final outcome will be.    This very easily could have been a disaster of lots of dead American soldiers and then we would all be outraged about that.  Give the damn seals some credit.   They put their lives on the line in the hopes to make you and I safer


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## junglefairy (4 May 2011)

An unarmed guy was shot in front of his kids. We could go round in circles for days and we would never agree, there are too many complex political, ethical and philosophical issues on which people will never see eye to eye. Tbh I can't really be bothered arguing pointlessly in circles, or maybe I just know when Im beat  (yeah I know shouldn't start something you're not willing to finish, what can I say Im "naiive").

I'll just bow out with a quote from Ghandi "an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind".


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## JadeWisc (4 May 2011)

LizzyandToddy said:



			I think it is a little sad all the street partying in america, they are no better than the very insurgents that they are trying to kill. There they are boasting about democracy and trying to force it upon others when really, well look at the pictures.

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Keep looking at the pictures then   Because we all know that the excitable pictures and videos  the media shows are a precise representation of America as a whole 


Jeez!  really?


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## JadeWisc (4 May 2011)

junglefairy said:



			An unarmed guy was shot in front of his kids. We could go round in circles for days and we would never agree, there are too many complex political, ethical and philosophical issues on which people will never see eye to eye. Tbh I can't really be bothered arguing pointlessly in circles, or maybe I just know when Im beat  (yeah I know shouldn't start something you're not willing to finish, what can I say Im "naiive").

I'll just bow out with a quote from Ghandi "an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind".
		
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I agree with you about the 'eye for an eye'  ideal.      It never solves anything.    I am just glad I am not the one making these tough decisions though because I am not sure I could.   My *hope* is that it is less about 'an eye for an eye'  and more about trying to get rid of a small pocket of very dangerous people who want to see you, I and everything we love destroyed at all costs.         

My rational brain tells me it is both though.


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## Hanno Verian (4 May 2011)

EAST KENT said:



			Oh and those brave and honourable Seals shot an unarmed man
		
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You seem to forget that a firefight was taking place a US helicopter had just been shot down, if you look at the news footage you can see the wreckage of it. 

Its one thing to criticise from the comfort of an armchair in Kent, those men had no idea what they were going into, their instructions were to get him, and they did. Nothing has been published about their casualties, they went in to do a job, did it and returned, in the heat of the moment you do not take chances, this was not pulli9ng someone over to arrest them in the UK for having a defective light on their car, these guys went into an armed camp.


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## brighteyes (4 May 2011)

Alec Swan said:



			Does anyone remember the Iranian Embassy siege?  The circumstances were slightly different,  I'll accept,  but the outcome was the same,  and rightly so.  

If we accept that "Leaders" are rarely the martyrs,  then it's surprising how the concept of an early demise seems to focus the mind!  Perhaps those who promote wanton slaughter,  feel that they're of more use to the "cause",  but in their back room capacity.

Topping the willing martyrs is a waist of time,  they're there for that anyway.  Threatening the promoters with death,  can often shorten the list of applicants!

Alec.
		
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I so hope you are right about this.


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## CanadianGirl (4 May 2011)

JadeWisc said:



			Give the damn seals some credit.   They put their lives on the line in the hopes to make you and I safer
		
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As my mom would say, 'hope springs eternal'.  

I don't think that this has made the world a safer place at all.  In fact it has done the opposite, which is evidenced by the fact that all the terrorist threat levels went up after it happened and remain up.


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## Luci07 (4 May 2011)

So, it doesn't look as if we believe the Americans could do anything right does it?!. Think that is what is known as "no win" situation. Bin Laden was not armed - his guards were. The fight went on for 45 minuutes (reported) before he was shot. Everyone on this posting does seem to overlook that both Cameron and Obama very CLEARLY said this is not the end, and they expect retribution.

People jumping around in the streets - no I don't like it either. Understand it? yes I try to. 

And I do wonder what people would be saying if the americans had known and just left Bin Laden?

And for anyone who hasn't actually been over to US - its not really one big country, thats like saying everyone in Europe is the same. There is a massive difference between East, Central and West Coast people so you should really expect as many different opinions over there as we see - just like in the UK! 

If they had kept his body for show - that would be against the basic principles of Islam - even I know that. If they buried him, his grave would become a shrine. The body was photographed, DNA evidence taken. Short of having him on display for all to see I really don't see there is a great deal else the US could have done.


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## perfect11s (4 May 2011)

CanadianGirl said:



			As my mom would say, 'hope springs eternal'.  

I don't think that this has made the world a safer place at all.  In fact it has done the opposite, which is evidenced by the fact that all the terrorist threat levels went up after it happened and remain up.
		
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 now we know the differnce between the americans and the canadians!!!! I guess it must be the french blood


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## Hanno Verian (4 May 2011)

I do find this slightly perplexing...

Does anyone believe that Osama deserved anything other than a death sentence, he openly admitted that he planned, organised and funded an act of terrorism that claimed nearly 3 000 lives on one day, he is undoubtedly responsible for a whole lot more.

Why wasn't he brought back to face trial like the Nazi's at Nuremberg, simple, Nazi Germany was a state had Adolf Hitler been captured alive he undoubtedly would have faced trial, Nazi Germany was defeated and occuppied after seven years of war, the state effectively ceased to exist. OBL was not the ruler of a country, he was the leader of a movement, there was no state to invade, his supporters are scattered across the world, short of genocide they aren't going to be eradicated, they would still be capable of exacting revenge or conducting acts of terrorism to influence a trial or bargain for his release, in a manner that the Nazis couldnt.

I'm not the fondest admirer of America, they have a very narrow and arrogant view of the world, but didn't we Brits too, you have to understand what a complete shock 911 was to the US as a whole, for the first time the US was directly attacked by an enemy, they felt bewildered, shocked and enraged. American politiceans queued up to deliver "lets go get em" rhetoric and it has led America into two wars that have become brutal drawn out events that have led to over 5000 US casualties, not 30 day technological wonders like Desert Storm in the 90's. 

To America the death of OBL represents their hope for an end to this and a return to normality, so in this context you can understand their celebration, as we celebrated VE day in 1945.

Do I think it makes the world a safer place, to be honest I don't know, I would like to hope so, but if it makes one terrorist think twice and lose sleep over the US willingness to persue them for 10 years, then it has served a purpose. I hope that OBL died a painful death, in fear and on his own, in the same manner that he has been responsible for inflicting upon countless other people


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## EAST KENT (4 May 2011)

Yes I expect the 9/11 disaster was a shock to the US, but lets not forget that we were equally terrorized by the IRA and a lot the funding came from Irish Americans in New York.It is not nice to be targeted on your home ground,to an extent we had to get used to it.
   Will this end terror..no it will increase it,so exactly what was the gain?


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## Luci07 (4 May 2011)

EAST KENT said:



			Yes I expect the 9/11 disaster was a shock to the US, but lets not forget that we were equally terrorized by the IRA and a lot the funding came from Irish Americans in New York.It is not nice to be targeted on your home ground,to an extent we had to get used to it.
   Will this end terror..no it will increase it,so exactly what was the gain?
		
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You can go around in circles but there are times when you do need to stand up and be counted. Will it cause a retribution? undoubtedly, but lets not forget, had he been alive, he would still be plotting atrocities. My hope is this, as was said previously, might just make some people think twice. Yes, someone else will come up but this is the first time that this movement has been really bitten back - hard and I don't think it is a bad thing that these murderers do realise that that there really are consequences. In an ideal world, I would have liked to have seen him stand trial but realistically, not sure that would have sparked off an even greater outrage.


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## 1stclassalan (4 May 2011)

Alec Swan said:



			Does anyone remember the Iranian Embassy siege?  The circumstances were slightly different,  I'll accept,  but the outcome was the same,  and rightly so.  

If we accept that "Leaders" are rarely the martyrs,  then it's surprising how the concept of an early demise seems to focus the mind!  Perhaps those who promote wanton slaughter,  feel that they're of more use to the "cause",  but in their back room capacity.

Topping the willing martyrs is a waist of time,  they're there for that anyway.  Threatening the promoters with death,  can often shorten the list of applicants!

Alec.
		
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I couldn't agree with you more Alec - diplomacy was far better used years ago, when we still had gunboats to send out! We'd give a lovely party at the British Embassy where the potential problem would be invited ( or brought kicking ) and informed quite plainly that if he continued in his chosen path he would be summarily shot, placed across the barrel of a large gun, sent for a walk in a minefield or taken up in a helicopter and dropped off over deep water or big mountains - and his family cursed, yea, unto the seventh generation.

Seemed to work.


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## JadeWisc (4 May 2011)

perfect11s said:



			now we know the differnce between the americans and the canadians!!!! I guess it must be the french blood    

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You do not know 1/1,000 of my full opinion on this issue and even if you did you would seem quite silly to be basing the differences of two entire countries based on my typings on HHO     and btw...   Elaborate on what the "differences" are if you will.  You said you now know them so it shoud be easy.    Let's hear them  


Or was that supposed to be a funny joke?  If it was I just didn't get it   and btw... my grandmother is a Marquette


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## mymare (4 May 2011)

Lynds said:



			"I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that." Martin Luther King, Jr
		
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The most sensible thing I've heard in the past few days, and from a great man.





Hanno Verian said:



			To America the death of OBL represents their hope for an end to this and a return to normality, so in this context you can understand their celebration, as we celebrated VE day in 1945.
		
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Hi HV, I think the VE celebrations were slightly different as they weren't celebrating a death, but the end of the war.  Then one year later the Channel Islanders finally got to celebrate getting our island back after 5 years of German occupation.


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## 1stclassalan (4 May 2011)

CanadianGirl said:



			As my mom would say, 'hope springs eternal'.  

I don't think that this has made the world a safer place at all.  In fact it has done the opposite, which is evidenced by the fact that all the terrorist threat levels went up after it happened and remain up.
		
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In actual fact the threat levels have gone down since 911. 

I am NOT a conspiracy theorist but the secret services were certainly aware of a possible attack - what they call  "A Spectacular" and in my opinion most of them favoured an attempt on President Clinton - the security surrounding his visit to Chequers was truly amazing and never equalled before or since. Here in London, the City had a steel fence completely around it with every post box, waste bin removed or sealed up along with manhole covers, electric cupboards and street furniture - these have all been removed.

In fact directly after 911 - I distinctly heard a huge sigh of relief because that was it for years to come ( sleeper missions take years to plan and finance ) and with the huge upsurge in funding for the spooks, terrorists have been limited to suicide bombers - while these may be a problem for anyone sitting next to them - you won't get a spook loosing much sleep over them.

The only change I can see is that the Queen's Flight aircraft seem to be sporting a new array of radar antenna - to no doubt suppress some types of missile. 

The rest is the imagination of the newhounds.


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## JadeWisc (4 May 2011)

mymare said:



			Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynds  
"I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that." Martin Luther King, Jr 

The most sensible thing I've heard in the past few days, and from a great man.
		
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I agree.  I had this as my FB status two days ago.  It was pointed out to me though that the first line  of that may not have been a MLK quote after all.   If this turns out to be the case I still agree that is is a wonderful sentiment to have been added to the rest of the quote and if MLK were here I would hazard a quess that is how he would be feeling anyhow.


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## Hanno Verian (4 May 2011)

mymare said:



			The most sensible thing I've heard in the past few days, and from a great man.






Hi HV, I think the VE celebrations were slightly different as they weren't celebrating a death, but the end of the war.  Then one year later the Channel Islanders finally got to celebrate getting our island back after 5 years of German occupation.
		
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But they were also celebrating the death of Hitler....


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## mymare (4 May 2011)

Hanno Verian said:



			But they were also celebrating the death of Hitler....
		
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But didn't he kill himself rather than someone killing him?  Or am I thinking of someone else..


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## Over2You (4 May 2011)

mymare said:



			But didn't he kill himself rather than someone killing him?  Or am I thinking of someone else..
		
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Yep, he did commit suicide. He and his wife had been staying in a bunker, and they must have made a suicide pact. She died of Cyanide poisoning, and he shot himself.


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## Over2You (4 May 2011)

EAST KENT said:



			Oh there will be trouble aplenty alright,and I am not totally convinced.They slipped the body into the sea rather fast..why?In a way it is a little sad,much prefered the wily old soldier to be elusive forever and maintain his charisma.Not supporting his methods by the way, but I just hate all these self congratulately yanks,so bloomin` infantile.
		
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Apart from your first two sentences, the rest of your post was extremely offensive. How dare you make such a sweeping statement about the inhabitants of what is generally speaking a wonderful country. My sister has lived in KY for many years, and both my niece and nephew are half-American. I would thank you kindly to *NOT* call them "Yanks" or "infantile".


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## Over2You (4 May 2011)

HashRouge said:



			The picture was a hoax....I do think they need to provide definitive proof that he's dead, although I do believe it.
		
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The Americans are considering releasing a picture of Bin Laden's corpse. Too many fake ones going about, and too many people not believing he is actually dead. Personally, I think they got rid of his body far too quickly, and used his religion as an excuse. They should have brought him back and let a representative of each allied country inspect the body. I really want to believe he is gone, but without proof, I am unsure.


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## perfect11s (4 May 2011)

JadeWisc said:



			You do not know 1/1,000 of my full opinion on this issue and even if you did you would seem quite silly to be basing the differences of two entire countries based on my typings on HHO     and btw...   Elaborate on what the "differences" are if you will.  You said you now know them so it shoud be easy.    Let's hear them  


Or was that supposed to be a funny joke?  If it was I just didn't get it   and btw... my grandmother is a Marquette 

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 Um I was gently teaseing  canadian girl!!!  if you read my other posts my attitude is  well done you guys got the *******!!!! im all for the gun boat dipomcy
kick the door down and deal with it ... it seems some your friends north of the border are a little more fluffy and worryed about the backlash  I guess most 'mericans would say let um try we have plenty more ammo


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## JadeWisc (4 May 2011)

perfect11s said:



			Um I was gently teaseing  canadian girl!!!  if you read my other posts my attitude is  well done you guys got the *******!!!! im all for the gun boat dipomcy
kick the door down and deal with it ... it seems some your friends north of the border are a little more fluffy and worryed about the backlash  I guess most 'mericans would say let um try we have plenty more ammo 

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I'm sorry.  I was a bit defensive because I have been reading so much anti American sentiment in the media, on FB, and HHO. Looking back that is just a joke that I would normally laugh off.  I do have a sense of humor.

I feel we are damned if we do and damned if we don't all the time and sometimes it hurts me to read it and other times I can agree and laugh it off.  This time it makes me more upset because it is such an emotive subject. 

 I would never have the audacity to ( in a serious manner)   make horrible statements about any country, religion or race as a whole.  I feel people often think it is 'ok'  to do that to America though.   It still hurts just like it would hurt anybody.  It also seems so ignorant and that upsets me.   How can others feel there is any way to generalize about any group or nation as a whole?  It is impossible and the stupidity astounds me.        

I am very sorry that I took my frustrations out on your innocent joke


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## JadeWisc (4 May 2011)

Over2You said:



			Apart from your first two sentences, the rest of your post was extremely offensive. How dare you make such a sweeping statement about the inhabitants of what is generally speaking a wonderful country. My sister has lived in KY for many years, and both my niece and nephew are half-American. I would thank you kindly to *NOT* call them "Yanks" or "infantile".
		
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I like you 


My OH also lives here from Scotland and our son and daughter are half Scottish.   Our families are a bit alike in many ways


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## perfect11s (5 May 2011)

JadeWisc said:



			I'm sorry.  I was a bit defensive because I have been reading so much anti American sentiment in the media, on FB, and HHO. Looking back that is just a joke that I would normally laugh off.  I do have a sense of humor.

I feel we are damned if we do and damned if we don't all the time and sometimes it hurts me to read it and other times I can agree and laugh it off.  This time it makes me more upset because it is such an emotive subject. 

 I would never have the audacity to ( in a serious manner)   make horrible statements about any country, religion or race as a whole.  I feel people often think it is 'ok'  to do that to America though.   It still hurts just like it would hurt anybody.  It also seems so ignorant and that upsets me.   How can others feel there is any way to generalize about any group or nation as a whole?  It is impossible and the stupidity astounds me.        

I am very sorry that I took my frustrations out on your innocent joke
		
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 I think the most important thing for you guys to remember is a great number of people are envious
of the United States of America, it's sucess and diversity and power... And the other important thing is   that there is a big  strange world outside your borders!!!! God bless America,


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## Fellewell (5 May 2011)

Over2You said:



			The Americans are considering releasing a picture of Bin Laden's corpse. Too many fake ones going about, and too many people not believing he is actually dead. Personally, I think they got rid of his body far too quickly, and used his religion as an excuse. They should have brought him back and let a representative of each allied country inspect the body. I really want to believe he is gone, but without proof, I am unsure.
		
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According to White House Press Secretary Carney; Bin Laden was shot in the face so photographic evidence may be inconclusive.


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## EAST KENT (5 May 2011)

The truth is slowly emerging now..the chopper was`nt "shot down" it clopped it`s tail fin on a wall. There was no arms cache in the house.Bin Laden was unarmed and DID NOT use a wife as a body shield, according to one of the children present he was arrested and then shot..and so it goes on.
   There seems to be an awful lot of discrepancies here,which does`nt surprise me in the least.


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## siennamum (5 May 2011)

I think the American's have done the world a great service. One less verminous individual polluting the planet.

As my teenage son posted as his facebook status: amazing what the Yanks can acheive when the PS3 network is down, hahaha.

Really cannot comprehend the degree of handwringing going on here (and this is from a philosophy graduate). If I personally could go back in time and organise the assasination of Hitler in the 1930's, would I? Hell yes.


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## perfect11s (5 May 2011)

siennamum said:



			I think the American's have done the world a great service. One less verminous individual polluting the planet.

As my teenage son posted as his facebook status: amazing what the Yanks can acheive when the PS3 network is down, hahaha.

Really cannot comprehend the degree of handwringing going on here (and this is from a philosophy graduate). If I personally could go back in time and organise the assasination of Hitler in the 1930's, would I? Hell yes.
		
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 Yep true and PC , handwringing , fluffys arnt the type of people who put the Great into Great Britain..  why do you think there seems to be so many of there ilk and they seem to have the upper hand in making policy and encoraging  the apeasement of all sorts of dubious and dangerous groups/people for instance and what's there aim and or thinking in this ?? .....


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## 1stclassalan (5 May 2011)

EAST KENT said:



			The truth is slowly emerging now..the chopper was`nt "shot down" it clopped it`s tail fin on a wall. There was no arms cache in the house.Bin Laden was unarmed and DID NOT use a wife as a body shield, according to one of the children present he was arrested and then shot..and so it goes on.
   There seems to be an awful lot of discrepancies here,which does`nt surprise me in the least.

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Be very cautious as to what you call truth! There are so many vested interests in this matter.

That helicopter in the compound never was shot down or accidentally damaged - it's fairly standard practise for one of these assaults to crash a team in as close as possible - think here of a defense budget and mission importance - don't spare the cellulose! A ground team would also be in place to cover all the exits and enterances and would also take out any guards just before that helo landed.

I'd hazard a guess that OBL was asleep just before the SEALs burst in so in wouldn't matter much whether he had arms to hand or not - I would find it very hard to believe that there were no weapons at all in a place that size - it is not a leafy suburb in the home counties - Pakistan is the kind of place where you pack a gun if you have anything worth protecting.


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## siennamum (5 May 2011)

perfect11s said:



			Yep true and PC , handwringing , fluffys arnt the type of people who put the Great into Great Britain..  why do you think there seems to be so many of there ilk and they seem to have the upper hand in making policy and encoraging  the apeasement of all sorts of dubious and dangerous groups/people for instance and what's there aim and or thinking in this ?? .....
		
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I think people just want to do the right thing, which is fair play. But it's naive to think that there's no room for expediency. The end can absolutely justify the means IMO.

It's funny people using the Nuremberg Trials as an example of how this could have all been handled better. Does that mean we should also forcibly repatriate terrorist bombmakers & chemists and give them highly paid jobs in our defence industries as the USA did with all the Nazi scientists they could get their hands on - whilst the Nuremberg Trials were being conducted.


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## Penny Less (6 May 2011)

IMHO its great news. If we had been involved he would have been brought to the UK then got legal aid and invoked his uman rights and be given a council house and benefits!
Sorry but this man was responsible for thousands of deaths and probably would have been responsible for many more. Good riddance I say


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## 1stclassalan (8 May 2011)

siennamum said:



			I think people just want to do the right thing, which is fair play. But it's naive to think that there's no room for expediency. The end can absolutely justify the means IMO.

It's funny people using the Nuremberg Trials as an example of how this could have all been handled better. Does that mean we should also forcibly repatriate terrorist bombmakers & chemists and give them highly paid jobs in our defence industries as the USA did with all the Nazi scientists they could get their hands on - whilst the Nuremberg Trials were being conducted.
		
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Unfortunately for them - making terrorist type bombs isn't rocket science! 

Appreciate your sentiments.


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## 1stclassalan (8 May 2011)

alma said:



			IMHO its great news. If we had been involved he would have been brought to the UK then got legal aid and invoked his uman rights and be given a council house and benefits!
Sorry but this man was responsible for thousands of deaths and probably would have been responsible for many more. Good riddance I say
		
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I'm going to chip in my twopennyworth of Conspriracy here - we are TOLD that he was responsible for thousands of deaths - none of us actually know for sure.


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