# Lurcher recall help.



## druid (10 January 2012)

I need the help of ADD please!

Archie the Lurcher has been with us for 18months and is 2.5 years old. When he arrived he had never done anything but live in a kennel and (attempt) to be used for coursing. He had zero recall or any other commands. 

Now he will sit, drop, go to his bed and give each paw when asked. His recall when out on a walk is 100%. Now for the problem...he will not recall at home. It's 50-50 if he comes back. We live on a largish small holding. You can see how this is an issue! 

He gets walked twice a day - goes jogging/running up the mountain for 45mins in the morning and to the beach/forest every evening/afternoon for 1.5-2 hours. Definitely not under exercised! My Mother only works 3 days/week so most days he has someone home with him and on the 3 days he is left alone for any length of time he is in the laundry with access to a large deck area and has another dog (female JRT x Foxhound) for company along with kongs, toys, bones etc. He is never destructive during these times - just seems to snooze!


So far I've tried:

Calling all the dogs and when the other 3 dogs some giving them lots of attention. No dice. 

Calling Archie and rewarding with treats when he does come. He's not particularly food orientated even with cheese/meat...only choccie gets him going and obviously that is not an option to give him!

Calling Archie and having a "high reward" toy (squeaky toy, the only squeaky toy he has) that is only offered when he comes to call and then he gets to keep it and have 5mins of play each time he comes. 

I'm down to restarting the recall training (i.e. he gets to stay on the training line and gets "reeled in" when called)

or 

Trying a static shock collar.... as we had a recent livestock chasing issue (our own deer) I'm tending towards this as it might work to solve both issues? He knows he mustn't chase the deer but looses control very occasionally. 

Suggestions? Ideas?


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## Faro (10 January 2012)

Have not got the experience myself to give you any advice - but I do have a lurcher and I have found the following site/forum to be very useful: www.lurcherlink.org.uk.

I do know that lurchers don't tend to be particularly food orientated, so the food treat doesn't necessarily work with many lurchers.

Also lurchers have a tendency to not recall when they're in the middle of the chase, or are intent upon something (their catch).  The recall is usually most successful if you can call the dog back at the precise moment that it lifts it's head away or takes its attention away from the chase/catch for a moment.  They can be selectively deaf when intent upon something - so an important part of recall is getting your own timing right.


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## PolarSkye (10 January 2012)

Faro said:



			Have not got the experience myself to give you any advice - but I do have a lurcher and I have found the following site/forum to be very useful: www.lurcherlink.org.uk.

I do know that lurchers don't tend to be particularly food orientated, so the food treat doesn't necessarily work with many lurchers.

Also lurchers have a tendency to not recall when they're in the middle of the chase, or are intent upon something (their catch).  The recall is usually most successful if you can call the dog back at the precise moment that it lifts it's head away or takes its attention away from the chase/catch for a moment.  They can be selectively deaf when intent upon something - so an important part of recall is getting your own timing right.
		
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This!

We had a lurcher and there wasn't a treat sufficiently stinky or delicious that would enduce her to come back to us once she had locked on to a chase.  She would run herself to exhaustion chasing prey.  Honestly, I think your best bet is starting again on long line training and/or getting in touch with the lurcherlink folks.  Not a big fan of boundary collars myself . . . and a lurcher on a mission will probably run right through it anyway.

P


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## druid (10 January 2012)

He is not on the chase or on a scent. He is standing all of 18ft from me, all concentration on me...refusing to come to call. I do wonder if in his past (he's a rescue) he was hit when he came at home or something. Sometimes he'll come to the threshold of the back door but if you attempt to touch him or call him further he runs back to his "safe" distance away. 


(Please note we've never smacked/physically punished this dog)

I do go on Lurcher Link. 

I was thinking of a boundary collar but the remote controlled shock collars that are commonly used on gun dogs (including ours!)


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## islander (10 January 2012)

This topic is very relevant to me as yesterday my lurcher was away chasing hares on a friend`s farmland for at least an hour! He is nearly 12 and has three legs but slipped his lead and was off! He is usually obedient but not when he is chasing and our own fields are well-hedged. Luckily he is good with stock and game birds (he was loose near pheasant and partridge feeders) and did no damage. We found him eventually on his way back to us, very tired and muddy. It appears he lay down to rest when he couldn`t run any more. Ages shouting his name and even the word `ham`, a treat which usually brings him running had no effect. So cannot be much help with your problem I`m afraid.


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## Maesfen (10 January 2012)

Is therre any chance you can have him as an 'only dog' in that you take him for walks, in the car, have him in the garden just with him, none of the other dogs?
All of the lurchers we've had or known, want to be with you, they love being singled out for 'special attention' like that.  Yes, sometimes they'll get their heads down but they always come back as quickly as they realise you're not with them.  On a walk sometimes, we'll hide and it's not many seconds before they realise you're missing and come haring back to find you; any chance you could try that too and make loads of fuss of him, just generally make him feel he is the most important part of your universe and hopefully it won't be long before he reciprocates that.


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## druid (10 January 2012)

I can try that, Maesfen. It does put paid a bit to the plan to get another lurcher (our other 3 dogs are 12-14yo and slowing down a little)


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## Maesfen (10 January 2012)

Well either try it and see if it works or if it doesn't, why not find a young pup that you can train in your ways and perhaps he would learn from that better but ideally, you need a straight from the litter one so it has no chance of having any bad habits, much easier to deal with.


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## Clodagh (10 January 2012)

I would really not use a leccy collar on a lurcher, mine and others I have known are so sensitive it would be the end of the world for them.

Can I please see a pic of a JRT x foxhound, what a cross! Does it hunt its quarry to ground and go in after it!?


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## PolarSkye (10 January 2012)

druid said:



			He is not on the chase or on a scent. He is standing all of 18ft from me, all concentration on me...refusing to come to call. I do wonder if in his past (he's a rescue) he was hit when he came at home or something. Sometimes he'll come to the threshold of the back door but if you attempt to touch him or call him further he runs back to his "safe" distance away. 


(Please note we've never smacked/physically punished this dog)

I do go on Lurcher Link. 

I was thinking of a boundary collar but the remote controlled shock collars that are commonly used on gun dogs (including ours!)
		
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Sorry - misread and/or misunderstood your post . . . our dog Daisy used to do this . . . we used to call it her dance.  I honestly can't tell you how we solved it, other than me spending TONS of time with her and endlessly praising and fussing her when she did come to me.  Now she sees me as her "safety" and comes reliably within touching distance pretty much every time I call her.  

I would still use the long line and reel him in to you (and then praise - perhaps lots of affection rather than food or toys) rather than using a shock collar . . . as others have said lurchers are veeeery sensitive.

Hope this helps.

P


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## druid (10 January 2012)

Maesfen said:



			Well either try it and see if it works or if it doesn't, why not find a young pup that you can train in your ways and perhaps he would learn from that better but ideally, you need a straight from the litter one so it has no chance of having any bad habits, much easier to deal with.
		
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Yup, the other three are rescues but came to us as puppies...well trained. Archie....it's an experience trying to train him, he is just so sensitive and intelligent! Wouldn't give him up for anything though - he's a complete softie.


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## druid (10 January 2012)

Clodagh said:



			I would really not use a leccy collar on a lurcher, mine and others I have known are so sensitive it would be the end of the world for them.

Can I please see a pic of a JRT x foxhound, what a cross! Does it hunt its quarry to ground and go in after it!?
		
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Her terrier side is more to the fore and she'll attempt to dig out rabbits/rats given a chance.


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## planete (10 January 2012)

I started having this problem with my six months old lurcher in the house (he is 100 per cent outside so far).  Having read an article on body language I tried calling him and not making eye contact, just standing there with my face turned away looking at the floor.  It worked.  It might be worth investigating body language when going back to basics.  Have a look at Turid Rugaas's website for ideas.  Even our best efforts at bonding can be scuppered by our body language if it gives the dog the wrong impression.  I am just beginning to delve into this so would also be interested in other people's ideas and experiences.  Do not want to hijack so will start another thread.


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## cremedemonthe (10 January 2012)

I had a recall problem with my lurcher (Saluki x Whippet)DAISY who has selective hearing, she would come to me every time at home but not when out if she saw a little fluffy dog to jump on (playfully) or off bunny bashing for 20 mins and comes back when she feels like it.
I have worked hard with her, had her on long line for ages and everytime she came back when called rewarded with praise and a treat now and again. Worked 90 % of the time but every so often she'd get selective hearing again and let me down.
The treats I was giving her didn't seem to persuade her that much until I tried buying pork rind from Morrisons and baking it in the oven to make it into pork crackling, I pre cut it into 5/8" strips by about 2 " she goes mad for it as do my other dogs and half of the dog population I meet out walking, I get mugged if I am not careful and they all try to follow me home like the Pied Piper when they get the smell of it!
I started her on it at home playing games with it to get her attention on me, along with my other 2 dogs joining in so it's a competition between them to find it first, I hide it round the house and do a certain whistle or noise to let her know what is on offer, off they go sniffing round the house like demented Dysons and the reward is the crackling when they find it. Now, when out walking, I whistle that certain whistle and start giving the treats to my other 2 dogs who return immediately so she knows she's missing out by not coming back. Her attention span on me is far better and she has 99.9% recall now and we are getting better every walk. Not saying it will work with your sight hound but it is worth a try and at £1.00 per kilo the pork rind (pig's skin) is a cheap and natural treat for them.
Bonus with the pork crackling is, as it's cooking, drain off the fat into a old margarine tub, use it for a cheap nearly free leather conditioner which _ I dress my hides with and I have alot of hides!_
Good luck


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## paisley (10 January 2012)

Yup, the stand and stare from a nice-out-of-reach distance is familiar! Alfie is a whippet lurcher, with good recall now, but he did this and it was exasperating.

I used the lunge line and reeled the little beggar in, if he didnt instantly come when called. I hid in bushes so he had to come find me, for treats and fuss. I ran away from him, so he had to chase to catch up. Care in the community want me to see someone 

If he will fetch the prized squeaky toy, spend some time just doing that, without the walk maybe? Mine was called 'Puppy Thicky' for quite a while till it dawned on him that if he and the toy came back, it got thrown again, and he got to do more of the lovely running


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## cremedemonthe (10 January 2012)

QUOTE:I used the lunge line and reeled the little beggar in, if he didnt instantly come when called. I hid in bushes so he had to come find me, for treats and fuss. I ran away from him, so he had to chase to catch up. Care in the community want me to see someone 

lol, glad it's not just me that gets strange looks when lurking in bushes hiding from dogs or trying to climb trees to hide!
Oz


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## paisley (10 January 2012)

cremedemonthe said:



			QUOTE:I used the lunge line and reeled the little beggar in, if he didnt instantly come when called. I hid in bushes so he had to come find me, for treats and fuss. I ran away from him, so he had to chase to catch up. Care in the community want me to see someone 

lol, glad it's not just me that gets strange looks when lurking in bushes hiding from dogs or trying to climb trees to hide!
Oz 

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Ha, you should hear the 'speshul' recall voice, I sound like I've been on helium!


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## cremedemonthe (10 January 2012)

paisley said:



			Ha, you should hear the 'speshul' recall voice, I sound like I've been on helium!
		
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lol and have you ever tried running away fast from them when you are laughing alot, it's impossible, you lose your strength and just don't seem to get anywhere!
Sorry OP not very helpful are we! Hope you get it sorted, Oz


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## druid (10 January 2012)

Thanks guys, we spent half an hour on the driveway/front yard on the long line playing the  come and treat/toy game. Not 100% consistent but he was much better by the end coming a few times without waiting for the line to be tugged.


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## cremedemonthe (10 January 2012)

druid said:



			Thanks guys, we spent half an hour on the driveway/front yard on the long line playing the  come and treat/toy game. Not 100% consistent but he was much better by the end coming a few times without waiting for the line to be tugged.
		
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Good, keep at it, it's a long road but worth it, my Daisy was really good tonight went over woods that we haven't been to for ages where there are alot of distractions (rabbits, squirrels etc) and she came back really quickly instead of sodding off for half and hour!
Try the pork crackling too, it's very tempting for dogs.
Oz


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## splashgirl45 (10 January 2012)

this may not help but i have found that using a gun dog type whistle(not the silent ones) seems to work much better with my lurcher than just using the voice.  i ALWAYS give a small treat when she comes to the whistle and it seems to get through to her brain when the voice alone doesnt.  might be worth trying...


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## druid (11 January 2012)

splashgirl45 said:



			this may not help but i have found that using a gun dog type whistle(not the silent ones) seems to work much better with my lurcher than just using the voice.  i ALWAYS give a small treat when she comes to the whistle and it seems to get through to her brain when the voice alone doesnt.  might be worth trying...
		
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Will see if I can get one today....and find pork crackling


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## druid (19 January 2012)

Just a quick update....the dog whistle mixed with doggie chocolate drops seem to be the key to him. Recall 80% better at home now (he was 100% away from home anyway!)


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## cremedemonthe (19 January 2012)

druid said:



			Just a quick update....the dog whistle mixed with doggie chocolate drops seem to be the key to him. Recall 80% better at home now (he was 100% away from home anyway!)
		
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Did you get to try the crackling?
Another poster on here PM'd me about it and has tried some, they seem to have had success with it, their dogs like it alot.
I can bribe all 3 of my rescues, (lurcher, JRT and Staffy x Lab) to do almost anything with it!
Oz


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## Cobiau Cymreig Wyllt (19 January 2012)

Lurchers have recall??????  Mine never did...well, that's had not strictly true - I eventually cajoled him into selective recall...ie when he felt like it...other than he did what what he was bred for...chased in the opposite direction! Usually whilst looking at you now and again over his shoulder!
Our greyhounds are not quite as bad...but still not entirely trustworthy in certain circumstances/when there's an 'r' in the month!
Basically, over 18 years of lurcher/greyhound ownership I still work on the basis of 'when in doubt, keep attached to person/object' - I'm sure that's probably a poor reflection of my dog-handling skills, but its come from many bitter lessons over the years! 
Seriously though, with all mine I've found a softly softly approach works best but obviously takes time and patience...even if they haven't actually been previously abused, they're sensitive and bright enough to think they might be!


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## kerilli (19 January 2012)

lurchers have recall? really? the moment my boy's head goes up and he espies something, i've lost him. safe only when on the lead. i adore my pointy dawg but he's utterly infuriating!
druid, i'm very impressed by the list of tricks yours will do, I must try harder with Casper, obviously!


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## druid (20 January 2012)

His recall outside of our property is 100%. I can call him off deer/hare/rabbits (conversely I can also hand slip him onto something I do want him to hunt - perhaps this helps).

It was just at home when asking him to come inside he was being an arse and pretending he didn't know about recall!!

Couldn't get any pork crackling but might try our butcher this weekend. He is obsessed with chocolate so doggie choc (which is undoubtably horrid for him) is his only bribe currently. Cheese, chicken and doggie treats were ignored.


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## kerilli (20 January 2012)

Ostrich said:



			LOL Kerilli that is the key to greyhound/lurcher ownership - always see things before they do   I think you can always identify a sighthound owner, they have a permanently harassed look as they endlessly scan the horizon....

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hahaha i wish, unfortunately his eyesight is about 5x better than mine, I fear!

druid, if you can call him OFF a hare, i am lost in admiration. if he just won't be caught in the garden maybe it's a game? fwiw when we got our rescue lurcher (he was an emaciated freezing stray, we tracked him across open fields for hours until we managed to wear him down with treats!) i couldn't catch him in the garden for months... i had to call him into the kitchen for a treat...


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## TarrSteps (24 January 2012)

I dug this up looking for another topic but it made me laugh. 

My older lurcher has a version of this.  He has very good recall and is generally quite an attached dog but also very confident in himself.  His version is to not get in the car at the end of the walk.  He stands looking at me from 50' away with his ears pricked, clearly saying he's not ready to get into the car, thanks.  He loves the car - he's gone everywhere with me since he was 4 months - but it's like a joke.  He'll even do it when it's raining, apparently on principle, although not when he's tired or cold and actually wants to go home. He used to dodge and play when I went up to him, although he decided pretty quickly I didn't find that funny. 

I've used a combination of factors.  I do keep high value treats in a shaker in the car but I'll confess, when he was younger and got really bad about it, I twice drove away!  (Don't panic, we were in a safe place and he's no dummy, I only got about ten yards.  )  He still does it sometimes but the second I walk towards him he either walks towards me or, if the car is closer he beetles over to the car.  I know it sounds like a lot of thinking for a dog but I swear he thought it was a) an assertion of his individuality and b) hysterically funny.  

Are you in a position to leave him once or twice?  Call the others, give them treats and simply remove yourself from the area?  It might convince him that it's not an optional exercise and in his best interests.

Interestingly, my younger dog is, on the surface, better trained and never does silly things like that although she is not, on balance, as nice an individual.


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## gunnergundog (24 January 2012)

druid said:



			His recall outside of our property is 100%. I can call him off deer/hare/rabbits (conversely I can also hand slip him onto something I do want him to hunt - *perhaps this helps*).

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Absolutely!  To my mind you've got it spot on!  You are part of the hunt; you allow the dog to do what it's bred to do but on your terms!  Soooooo many people try to ELIMINATE the hunt totally, which is just going to frustrate the dog.

Have you thought about applying those principles to the recall whilst on your property????   In other words, hide SOMETHING that he values and get him to hunt for it.  It may have to be cold game or whatever rocks his boat.


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