# Walking with dog treats - what are your views?



## Fools Motto (19 November 2016)

I had a major problem earlier today, where my elderly whippet X got into 'the wrong crowd'! Her own fault (?) 
She homed in on a man walking 2 dogs, one on lead (dog aggressive, so understandably in control on leash) and a terrier off lead. Trouble is, whippet x now has a ''thing'' for most other walkers, because they have treats... and she is so gentle they give her treats..(despite my saying she doesn't need it) She has become addicted to treats! .She USED to be so loyal but now will run away to go after a 'treat person'. Is this an age thing? Her eyesight is clearly sharp, as must her nose be!  so for the first time in her 12 + years she 'whippets' off to other people! Unless I can get her before she goes, I struggle to stop her going. Normally no one minds... but today the on lead dog did. Sadly we met at cross paths - i had no idea they were there. She couldn't care less what the on lead dog was doing to her, he was having a go - poor owner was trying to stop him, while trying not to trip over my embarrassment as she was trying her hardest to get into that mans pocket! One cut ear later...
She doesn't need treats... I don't like the idea of walking with treats.... it would mean she stuck to my pocket instead of being a dog, just lumbering along sniffing, doing dog things.

Can older dogs get more ravenous and obsessive over food? 
Just wanted opinions and ideas.
Meanwhile the young spaniel has been brilliant..


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## Cahill (19 November 2016)

i always have treats in my pocket for my own dogs.
i use them if my dog is on a lead and we are passing other dogs on a narrow path as this is the kind of situation where he may lunge.
he is perfectly well behaved off lead but we do dog etiquette to be polite.
i would never give treat to other dogs.


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## CorvusCorax (19 November 2016)

I don't use treats but I occasionally carry the dog's normal kibble if I fancy doing a bit of training during a walk.
I nearly always carry a ball or tug of some kind in case of having to pass on a narrow path or to redirect if need be, like this evening, when two large dogs appeared out of the dark and one stuck it's nose up one end and one got in his face.

And while it must be lovely when the dog respects 'the master', when you're on your own in the middle unknown large dogs, with the other owner miles away, then wanging a ball or shoving some food in one dog's gob is preferable to some of the alternatives.

I would also never feed someone else's dog and I'd be annoyed if someone tried to feed mine.

If she is bimbling up to people unbidden and you can't recall her, I'd keep her on a lead for her own safety. She's 12, just do what you have to do.


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## Apercrumbie (20 November 2016)

I do carry treats for my dog but wouldn't dream of ever giving them to another dog, and I wouldn't let anyone else treat my dog for this reason. I would make sure to ask anyone you see treating her to stop and perhaps keep her on the lead/long line for a while until she stops pestering others for food.


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## FinnishLapphund (20 November 2016)

If my oldest dog changed behaviour like that, I would probably take her to the veterinarian for a check up, just to be on the safe side. If they can't find anything, then, in your shoes, I would get used to carrying treats with me, and perhaps try putting her in a harness, with a long line.


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## dollyanna (20 November 2016)

I always walk with rewards in my pocket, only for my own dog though. I would tentatively suggest that she is letting you know that she likes bimbling along as a dog but when there is a possibility of food then that is more interesting than you, so you need to up the anti and become more interesting again - and if that means you carry food then so be it. Either that or keep her on a lead. It is not fair on her getting injured and most certainly not fair on stressed dogs and owners who have her come tearing up to them and don't respond to their concerns for personal space.
Carrying food doesn't mean they are glued to your pocket, mine does his own thing (apart from checking in as a deaf dog should do) but it means I have a little extra "draw" to him when there are strong distractions like other dogs, which he needs given his previous history. For him it also acts as a reassurance. It's not really a big deal, I can walk without but we are both happier when it is there. 
But I would also agree with a vet check if she is suddenly very food orientated, there may be another issue that needs sorting as well.


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## Chiffy (20 November 2016)

I carry treats. My dogs are free to do do their own thing on a walk but every now and thenI call them back to heel or to sit, sometimes they get a treat and sometimes a stroke and a 'good girl' so they never anticipate a treat. They never hang round me asking for treats and never ask other people. 
Occasionally if I stop to speak with someone and they fuss the dogs, I may get asked if they can give them a treat. I always thank them but say I would prefer not.
You should be the most important person in your dog's life, not running to others. I think you should go back to lead work until you can sort this. Try to find out why she is so obsessed with food or maybe it is one of the funny little obsesssions they get as they get older and a touch of senility. You will be very unhappy if she gets badly bitten.


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## Thistle (20 November 2016)

Chiffy said:



			I carry treats. My dogs are free to do do their own thing on a walk but every now and thenI call them back to heel or to sit, sometimes they get a treat and sometimes a stroke and a 'good girl' so they never anticipate a treat. They never hang round me asking for treats and never ask other people. 
Occasionally if I stop to speak with someone and they fuss the dogs, I may get asked if they can give them a treat. I always thank them but say I would prefer not.
You should be the most important person in your dog's life, not running to others. I think you should go back to lead work until you can sort this. Try to find out why she is so obsessed with food or maybe it is one of the funny little obsesssions they get as they get older and a touch of senility. You will be very unhappy if she gets badly bitten.
		
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I do similar.

Last week I took the 6 month lab for a run after his puppy class, we were in an open meadow, I gained an older Golden retriever, I asked pup to sit and watch me, I had treat but didn't use them as didn't want to 'bait' the other dog. GR also promptly sat. Owner huffed and puffed her way to me then berated me for having treats and tormenting her dog. I suggested she use her lead if she couldn't recall her dog, I then got another earful about how unfair this was. My 6 month old sat nicely throughout. Lady walked off with her dog on lead, I changed direction, pup still off lead tried to follow, immediately recalled back to heel, treated and carried on.


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## cremedemonthe (20 November 2016)

I used to carry cooked beef treats in my side pocket of my combats, the smell of which must drift miles it seems as I have had numerous strange dogs appear and try to "mug" me. 2 friend's whippets regularly sought me out when the owner was no where to be seen in 200 acres of parkland. One woman's Highland Terrier appeared and presented himself to me and refused to move for the owner when she caught up with him, he promptly planted his feet and sat down when she put his lead on and tried to drag him away.
She said he's never done that before and had to pick him up and carry him off.

Last straw was a few years ago, on route up through London, I got out of the train at Victoria and was going down to the tube, a black Lab attached itself to my pocket. Next thing was a large hand on my shoulder and a voice saying "excuse me Sir, can I have a word" it was the Police and a  drugs dog and I was stopped and bodily searched infront of the crowds of Victoria station in rush hour!
I explained it was the dog treats, after finding no drugs but tons of dog poo bags in my pockets that were thankfully empty, he said I can see you are a dog owner!
I was let on my way.
I didn't even have any treats in my pockets that day just wearing the same trousers as I had the day before when I did have the treats in them, that's how damn good their noses are.
I don't often have the treats on me now!
Oz


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## Snowy Celandine (20 November 2016)

I always carry treats with me - unless I forget to pick them up! - and use them to reward my whippet when we meet traffic, normally farm machinery. Her recall is great and she comes and sits next to me, never taking her eyes off me, until the tractor has gone past and then she knows she'll get her reward, a small dog treat. My Chi hasn't got such good recall i.e. she normally runs back but, on occasion, she doesn't, so I normally scoop her up when traffic is passing as she is so tiny that no-one could be expected to see her and wait until she does come back to me. When the vehicle has passed, she gets put back on the floor and she is told "Sit" or "Down" and then she gets her treat. Not sure if this is a good way of 'training' her but I think she needs a reward for doing what I say when there is no danger from traffic.

I don't feed other people's dogs but they sometimes ask if they can feed mine and I will agree because I've never had any problems with my dogs coming back to me afterwards. There again if the person concerned had Oz's super duper mega cooked beef dog treats, who knows?!!! Fortunately, I don't often walk my dogs in Wales so we're unlikely to meet up


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## cremedemonthe (20 November 2016)

Snowy Celandine said:



			I always carry treats with me - unless I forget to pick them up! - and use them to reward my whippet when we meet traffic, normally farm machinery. Her recall is great and she comes and sits next to me, never taking her eyes off me, until the tractor has gone past and then she knows she'll get her reward, a small dog treat. My Chi hasn't got such good recall i.e. she normally runs back but, on occasion, she doesn't, so I normally scoop her up when traffic is passing as she is so tiny that no-one could be expected to see her and wait until she does come back to me. When the vehicle has passed, she gets put back on the floor and she is told "Sit" or "Down" and then she gets her treat. Not sure if this is a good way of 'training' her but I think she needs a reward for doing what I say when there is no danger from traffic.

I don't feed other people's dogs but they sometimes ask if they can feed mine and I will agree because I've never had any problems with my dogs coming back to me afterwards. There again if the person concerned had Oz's super duper mega cooked beef dog treats, who knows?!!! Fortunately, I don't often walk my dogs in Wales so we're unlikely to meet up 

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 I don't meet many people or dogs now either! And it's wonderful!


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## Snowy Celandine (20 November 2016)

cremedemonthe said:



 I don't meet many people or dogs now either! And it's wonderful!
		
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I only ever meet my neighbour who has 3 whippets and a jack russell  I should add that I love Wales, am a regular visitor and would actually like to meet Oz and his gang, just in case my first post read a bit wrong


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## Amymay (20 November 2016)

Yes, I always carry treats (well kibble). Not so much for my own dog but for the dogs that I walk (are staying with me). I find it helps reinforce good behaviour and encourages them to come back to me immediately upon a whistle or call.

One dog in particular I walk is a spaniel cross and is easily distracted by his nose.  But 3 months in of walking with me and he is 100% better.


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## Clodagh (20 November 2016)

I never use or carry treats, and in fact when I did try using them to improve young labs dummy return I found that she won't actually eat when she is working. She doesn't like to be touched then, either, total focus is the order of the day.
I did used to carry kibble when walking hound puppies, just to get them started.


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## PucciNPoni (20 November 2016)

I carry treats every walk I do.  I do not give them out to other dogs, and I certainly would not want my dogs treated by others.   However I am extremely antisocial when out walking and therefore rarely get close enough to people to get in this trouble, and if I spot someone miles away with a dog, I divert course and leash up when necessary.  

I have been guilty at the end of an agility training session of giving one my pals a bit of hotdog....but I know it's ok with owner and it doesn't distract him during training.


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## littlebranshill (20 November 2016)

You have to make it nicer for her to be with you rather than running off to see if someone else has treats so I think the only way round the problem is to have extra special treats that she only gets on walks - like a tub of pate (dogs go crazy for that) or tube of cream cheese.  Just take the lid off the pate for her to lick.  She will then realise that mum is the real deal and will stick with you rather than run off.  Good luck


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## npage123 (20 November 2016)

cremedemonthe said:



			I used to carry cooked beef treats in my side pocket of my combats, the smell of which must drift miles it seems as I have had numerous strange dogs appear and try to "mug" me. 2 friend's whippets regularly sought me out when the owner was no where to be seen in 200 acres of parkland. One woman's Highland Terrier appeared and presented himself to me and refused to move for the owner when she caught up with him, he promptly planted his feet and sat down when she put his lead on and tried to drag him away.
She said he's never done that before and had to pick him up and carry him off.

Last straw was a few years ago, on route up through London, I got out of the train at Victoria and was going down to the tube, a black Lab attached itself to my pocket. Next thing was a large hand on my shoulder and a voice saying "excuse me Sir, can I have a word" it was the Police and a  drugs dog and I was stopped and bodily searched infront of the crowds of Victoria station in rush hour!
I explained it was the dog treats, after finding no drugs but tons of dog poo bags in my pockets that were thankfully empty, he said I can see you are a dog owner!
I was let on my way.
I didn't even have any treats in my pockets that day just wearing the same trousers as I had the day before when I did have the treats in them, that's how damn good their noses are.
I don't often have the treats on me now!
Oz
		
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Wow your dogs are lucky, cooked beef as a treat!  Such a shame you have to use it less often because of other dogs.  I would have felt so embarrassed if a police dog sniffed me out, would have probably blushed and sweated like a boiled tomato.  
I once read that we smell a flower, but a dog can smell the insect that was sitting on the flower previously.  Their sense of smell are amazing.


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## Snowy Celandine (20 November 2016)

I bet we'd be completely overwhelmed if we suddenly developed the ability to smell in the same way as a dog for the day!! I swear that my dogs can smell cheese from a hundred paces, even if it's wrapped up


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## Peter7917 (20 November 2016)

Yes I carry treats. No they don't hang around anticipating them.

I have five to control at once and need to keep up the training to ensure they don't become a menace to other walkers. Calling them back for a treat is a pretty much daily occurance.


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## Clodagh (20 November 2016)

Snowy Celandine said:



			I bet we'd be completely overwhelmed if we suddenly developed the ability to smell in the same way as a dog for the day!! I swear that my dogs can smell cheese from a hundred paces, even if it's wrapped up 

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Have you read The Talisman? When Wolf comes to this world he is overwhelmed by how bad it smells. I think ignorance is bliss!

When we did walk with treats the dogs with the hound puppies the dogs wouldn't leave our sides, greedy labradors and border terriers.


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## FDLady (20 November 2016)

I carry treats (well carrots as i seem to have an endless supply of them in my pockets and they're healthy) and my boy is obsessed with them. Lots of recall during the first few minutes so i know that he is aware i have got food on me. You have to be more appealing that the other walker im afraid; if thats through their stomache or via a toy. With owning a dog who is aggressive i need to know im not taking the chance and can get his attention in seconds, because of this NO ONE else feeds him. I wont let people brush my polite "no thank you" a side when they insist - it may sound harsh but id rather come across as a b*tch than risk other peoples/my own animals. He is VERY food driven and knows it comes from me only. (id like to add he only goes off lead across the fields where its rare we ever do meet anyone - i doubt he'd actually do anything if he did reach them but not taking the risk). It sounds harsh but from the other side of the argument it can be very dangerous if a loose dog would reach me too despite doing all i can - if you have no recall you have no control. Work with the treats until she's back with you if thats what drives her  eventually you can wean off to less. Yes there are times he watches me but he's never stuck to me obsessively


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## Snowy Celandine (20 November 2016)

"Have you read The Talisman? When Wolf comes to this world he is overwhelmed by how bad it smells. I think ignorance is bliss!"

Not read it but I think that sounds about right


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## Teaselmeg (20 November 2016)

Always carry treats. I don't work for nothing, why should my dogs ?

I would keep him on a harness and longline unil his recall is reliable again and have something really yummy to reward when he comes back, he will soon prefer you to anyone else again.


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## PucciNPoni (20 November 2016)

Teaselmeg said:



			Always carry treats. I don't work for nothing, why should my dogs ?

I would keep him on a harness and longline unil his recall is reliable again and have something really yummy to reward when he comes back, he will soon prefer you to anyone else again.
		
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Great analogy


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## Clodagh (21 November 2016)

I see that I am in the total minority here but I expect my dogs (and my children) to do what I tell them through love and respect, not greed. I only know two dogs trained to KC Gold standard, both are as obedient as anything when the owner wears a bum bag of treats but completely ignorant without.
What happens if you are on a walk and you run out of food? Do they all vanish over the nearest horizon?


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## TGM (21 November 2016)

Clodagh said:



			I see that I am in the total minority here but I expect my dogs (and my children) to do what I tell them through love and respect, not greed. I only know two dogs trained to KC Gold standard, both are as obedient as anything when the owner wears a bum bag of treats but completely ignorant without.
What happens if you are on a walk and you run out of food? Do they all vanish over the nearest horizon?
		
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Generally the plan is to use treats for the learning phase, and then phase them out over time.  I think it helps to have added motivation when they are still learning and the big wide world is full of exciting distractions which can make them forget themselves sometimes!  When my older dog was a puppy I used to carry treats on walks as an added incentive, but now she is older she still comes back to me even though until the last month I haven't carried treats for years.  Now I have another puppy I am starting to carry treats again on walks, as the method seemed to work before!  Any treats go in a normal coat pocket, not a bum bag, so there is no visual clue to whether I am carrying treats or not!


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## Shantara (21 November 2016)

I would never feed anyone else's dogs unless I knew them/the owner and knew they were ok with it. For instance I once in a while get Tamriel's brother to do a trick and give him a treat if we're out and about. 
I don't mind people giving Tam treats, so long as I see it before she gets it! She is so afraid of people that she needs all the help she can get to trust humans.


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## RunToEarth (21 November 2016)

Clodagh said:



			I see that I am in the total minority here but I expect my dogs (and my children) to do what I tell them through love and respect, not greed. I only know two dogs trained to KC Gold standard, both are as obedient as anything when the owner wears a bum bag of treats but completely ignorant without.
What happens if you are on a walk and you run out of food? Do they all vanish over the nearest horizon?
		
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I tend to agree and I don't like to work with dogs who are overly food orientated, our youngest spaniel is a complete moron for food and she is the worst for working properly. 

However, I will always carry kibble with me and alternate rewarding with praise and a small treat, but only my own, I think it is a complete no no to feed other peoples' dogs.


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## Fellewell (21 November 2016)

Clodagh said:



			I see that I am in the total minority here but I expect my dogs (and my children) to do what I tell them through love and respect, not greed. I only know two dogs trained to KC Gold standard, both are as obedient as anything when the owner wears a bum bag of treats but completely ignorant without.
What happens if you are on a walk and you run out of food? Do they all vanish over the nearest horizon?
		
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Couldn't agree more. My breed of choice isn't particularly food orientated either so a biscuit would NEVER trump a squirrel!

To the op. You mention a spaniel (new dog?) in your post. Never underestimate the place your dog believes he holds in your affections especially if he's never had to compete for it. It's not unheard of for dogs to develop strange behaviours when they feel usurped. Some even try to rehome themselves by wandering off with other people on walks.


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## CorvusCorax (21 November 2016)

Again, to me, it isn't treats, it's the dog working for his dinner. 
Does it matter whether the dog's daily allowance of food comes in a bowl, from my pocket or off a 1000 pace, seven-leg track that's been left to mature for 90 minutes?


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## MurphysMinder (21 November 2016)

I think we are guilt of using the wrong word when we say treat, it is actually more of a reward as far as my dogs are concerned.  Yes, I do carry bits of kibble when walking but the dogs only get it when they have earned it as others have said,  be it coming back to me,  ignoring a distraction or a bit of impromptu heelwork etc.   I would never give a titbit to another persons dog without asking them.


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## planete (21 November 2016)

The dog I raised from a pup no longer expects food rewards but a hard to obey command is always rewarded with a word, a touch or a quick game.  My rescue bitches need all the help they can get to forget about chasing, harassing or sounding off and know treats will reward any show of good will. They will have to work harder and harder to get treats as they progress though. If a friend' s dog begs for a treat when I reward mine, I ask whether they would like to have one so they can give it to their dog themselves.  Walking three dogs, it can be difficult to reward one and ignore the others but they all know the drill and have accepted it.  I do not carry super yummy ones though (cooked beef Oz, wow!) unless I am working with just one of them.


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## TheOldTrout (22 November 2016)

I carry treats, as do a lot of local dog walkers round here. Our Parsons was a total nightmare with other dogs when we first got him and some of the first dogs he started to tolerate were those whose owners he could get biscuits off...


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## CorvusCorax (22 November 2016)

Last night I decanted 300g of kibble into two right hand pockets and walked my dog a quarter of a mile to some sports pitches.
He got the first pocketful for a five minute downstay under distraction with me out of sight, and then the rest in dribs and drabs for bits of heelwork and positions and whatever. Then we walked back again. On other days, he'll get a bowl plonked on the floor.

Some dogs are not natural people-pleasers and it's hard to put in what isn't there.


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## cremedemonthe (22 November 2016)

planete said:



			The dog I raised from a pup no longer expects food rewards but a hard to obey command is always rewarded with a word, a touch or a quick game.  My rescue bitches need all the help they can get to forget about chasing, harassing or sounding off and know treats will reward any show of good will. They will have to work harder and harder to get treats as they progress though. If a friend' s dog begs for a treat when I reward mine, I ask whether they would like to have one so they can give it to their dog themselves.  Walking three dogs, it can be difficult to reward one and ignore the others but they all know the drill and have accepted it.  I do not carry super yummy ones though (cooked beef Oz, wow!) unless I am working with just one of them.
		
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These 






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## Crugeran Celt (22 November 2016)

I never carry dog treats, both my dogs recall is excellent and praise and a pat is enough for them.


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## dollyanna (22 November 2016)

Clodagh said:



			I see that I am in the total minority here but I expect my dogs (and my children) to do what I tell them through love and respect, not greed. I only know two dogs trained to KC Gold standard, both are as obedient as anything when the owner wears a bum bag of treats but completely ignorant without.
What happens if you are on a walk and you run out of food? Do they all vanish over the nearest horizon?
		
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That would suggest a lack of finishing the training, training just to pass the test. My deaf boy passed KC Gold several years ago, he will work for anyone, with or without food. He recalls without food very easily, because I made sure his training got to that level, that's what I needed to keep him safe (eg if he accidentally escapes I need him to come back asap whether I have food or not). I don't NEED to carry rewards, and these days I am more forgetful about having them, I certainly use a lot less and many walks use nothing. But I see no reason why my boy shouldn't be paid for a job well done - in the beginning that job was harder for him so he got paid more frequently, these days he finds it much easier so he gets paid less often, and sometimes payment can be non-food. But at the end of the day if someone offered to pay me in mint chocolates (which I love) or giving me a hug (which I like a lot) I would rather have it in mint chocolate but the odd occasion a hug is ok - too many hugs and they lose their value though!


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## Clodagh (22 November 2016)

Crugeran Celt said:



			I never carry dog treats, both my dogs recall is excellent and praise and a pat is enough for them.
		
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I am not alone!


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## {97702} (22 November 2016)

It would never occur to me to take treats/rewards out for my lot, other than when I rehome a new rescue and need that additional focus.  Mine are rewarded by a pat/hug which they seem quite happy with   Having said that, I never feed mine treats at all - not sure if it is because they are greyhounds but I find it makes them nippy and over-excited


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## Dizzydancer (22 November 2016)

I'm with clodagh cruegan cult & levrier. 
I have labs so majorly food orientated but I never treat/food reward them they do what I ask for a pat/cuddle. They both work well pup is in training to work and food rewards are not fond in the gundog circles we are in as it can encourage them to drop dummy/bird wanting treats. 

They are both brilliantly behaved and recall is brilliant however if we meet people who talk to them etc and they do have treats in pocket both mine will attach to the pocket until I call them away- and I completely detest if people attempt to feed them- it's amazing how many people go to!!


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## CorvusCorax (22 November 2016)

I think you have a point re different breeds and disciplines!


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## blackcob (22 November 2016)

I get through two boxes of cocktail sausages a week.


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## Snowy Celandine (22 November 2016)

blackcob said:



			I get through two boxes of cocktail sausages a week. 

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Yes, but do you give your dog any treats?


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## CorvusCorax (22 November 2016)

One of the reasons I stick to kibble is that I would eat the cheese and hotdogs myself


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## blackcob (23 November 2016)

This is where I've been going wrong all these years.


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## gunnergundog (23 November 2016)

cremedemonthe said:



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Please may I invite myself to dinner?


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## cremedemonthe (23 November 2016)

gunnergundog said:



			Please may I invite myself to dinner?  

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have these too

 






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## gunnergundog (23 November 2016)

cremedemonthe said:



			have these too

 






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Jeepers creepers!  Address NOW please!    Sat Nav being resurrected from where it was last seen a couple of years ago.......


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## gunnergundog (23 November 2016)

Not that I care as my salivary glands are working over time, but what are the ones in the bottom picture?  Prawn sesame toasts?  (She says VERY hopefully!)


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## cremedemonthe (23 November 2016)

gunnergundog said:



			Not that I care as my salivary glands are working over time, but what are the ones in the bottom picture?  Prawn sesame toasts?  (She says VERY hopefully!)
		
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Pork crackling


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## gunnergundog (23 November 2016)

I could force myself!


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## cremedemonthe (23 November 2016)

gunnergundog said:



			I could force myself!  

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Buy it raw from Morrisons, cut it in to strips with sharp knife, cook in oven (200 degrees at least) fat side down on tray until golden brown, regularly drain fat off and re use for other things, let it cool and you have dog treats. Only little now and again as can be fattening for them and you!


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## {97702} (23 November 2016)

My mum used to oven bake liver for treats for her show dogs  -  it stank when cooking, I hate liver, but the dogs loved it!  It was ideal as it was totally dry so easy to stick in a pocket


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## cremedemonthe (23 November 2016)

Lévrier;13421038 said:
			
		


			My mum used to oven bake liver for treats for her show dogs  -  it stank when cooking, I hate liver, but the dogs loved it!  It was ideal as it was totally dry so easy to stick in a pocket
		
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Yes that's the second photo of mine above, just raw liver baked, dogs go mad for it.I play a game at home with them, hiding bits round the house then let them in to find it, they go mad sniffing everywhere and sound like demented dysons BUT they never miss any no matter how clever I think I am at hiding the pieces!


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## Crugeran Celt (24 November 2016)

Clodagh said:



			I am not alone!
		
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No you are not,  I walk my two with a friend who has two labs, mine are springers, she always carries treats and I always think its quite sad that one of her dogs doesn't leave her side becuase she is constantly waiting for a treat whilst mine are in all the undergrowth enjoying themselves. Saying that they are extremely obedient.


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## Blanche (25 November 2016)

I never walk with food, just never occurs to me. Maybe be if I had a dog who bogged off into the middle distance I might force myself to. Just another thing to try and remember to shove in my pockets.


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## Moobli (25 November 2016)

I only use food treats as rewards when training - so generally if I have a young dog or a new-to-me older dog whose correct behaviour needs teaching or reinforcing.  My dogs are very toy driven though, and so I almost always take a ball on our walks.  I would no more offer a strange dog a treat as I would give it my own dog's ball to play with.  We rarely see other dog walkers anyway though, so not a problem I have ever come across.

Personally I would suggest doing what works for you and your dog.  If your dog will only recall away from distractions if you have food rewards - then so be it.  Far better a treat given when the need arises than a dog who throws a deaf ear to your call (my sister's Border Terrier is like that!).  I have found that breed also makes a considerable difference and also how you interact with your dog.  I have GSDs and BCs and both are very handler dependent so I rarely have a problem with their bogging off or not recalling.


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## paddy555 (25 November 2016)

treats/rewards seem to be a very modern idea. I would never think of taking any with me. I expect the dog to do as it is told and to be praised by my voice. If it couldn't then perhaps it would still need to be on a lead.  What would happen if it was going to run under a car? Would it only recall if it  knew I had the treats with me? I would be furious if anyone gave it a treat in the same way that I wouldn't allow anyone to treat my horses.  

Years ago I did GSD obedience training classes. We had about 20 GSD's all working without any sort of treat. I also did mixed breed obedience classes and again they all managed without treats. I don't think treats had ever occurred to anyone then so I  am not sure why they are needed now.


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## blackcob (25 November 2016)

As above, a kind word isn't enough for some dogs (or some breeds of dog). I am not above bribery to achieve what I want!


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## CorvusCorax (25 November 2016)

My dog works incredibly hard for me. It would never occur to me not to reward him **with the things that motivate him**. And he looks happy when he is doing it, which is the most important thing for me 

Can somebody explain to me the difference between feeding kibble from my pockets or off a track, and in a bowl? It's still the same food. And yes, he can and does work without it.


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## Clodagh (25 November 2016)

I have only ever had really food orientated dogs, who I would never treat as they would be an instant PITA (labradors!) and completely non food based dogs whom it would not benefit (lurchers), so I cannot speak for dogs who work better for food. Young lab (not food based, oddly) worships me and only wants to please. Old lurcher (not food based) only wants to please herself so it would gain nothing, she wouldn't stop coursing for a biscuit.
I suppose I want a relationship whereby the dog works for love, not its stomach.


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## Copperpot (25 November 2016)

I take treats on walks. Sometimes I give them, sometimes just a pat or a good boy. Gotta keep on top of these pesky terriers. And I don't mind if other people give my dogs a treat either.


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## {97702} (25 November 2016)

CorvusCorax said:



			My dog works incredibly hard for me. It would never occur to me not to reward him **with the things that motivate him**. And he looks happy when he is doing it, which is the most important thing for me 

Can somebody explain to me the difference between feeding kibble from my pockets or off a track, and in a bowl? It's still the same food. And yes, he can and does work without it.
		
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Feeding kibble from a bowl is what he requires to live & maintain his physical condition.  Feeding kibble is a reward (bribery?) for work that has been done.  I have my origins in an interest in falconry, which is all based on food reward - I can see entirely how it works & motivates, I just don't happen to use it for my greyhounds cos they are soppy sods who love me


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## CorvusCorax (25 November 2016)

Ah, you see I am just his beeeatch, lol 

I have the receipts for everything though, all his things do actually belong to me


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## Leo Walker (25 November 2016)

blackcob said:



			As above, a kind word isn't enough for some dogs (or some breeds of dog). I am not above bribery to achieve what I want!
		
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I have whippets, my big dog is a bit of a git and he knows what hes entitled too :lol: The puppy is young and learning and I clicker train. I always have treats and a clicker on me even in the house. Mine get grain free cat/dog kibble usually, for training classes we sometimes use hotdogs or chicken as hes expected to work harder and for longer so I make the reward higher. They dont get a treat every time, sometimes they get a fuss, or a game or a toy. Its all about balance


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## MotherOfChickens (26 November 2016)

FrankieCob said:



			I have whippets, my big dog is a bit of a git and he knows what hes entitled too :lol: The puppy is young and learning and I clicker train. I always have treats and a clicker on me even in the house. Mine get grain free cat/dog kibble usually, for training classes we sometimes use hotdogs or chicken as hes expected to work harder and for longer so I make the reward higher. They dont get a treat every time, sometimes they get a fuss, or a game or a toy. Its all about balance 

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^^ this, and I have a very food oriented retriever pup but he's not a pita when it comes to food and treats-he doesn't get one all the time, sometimes its fuss etc depends on what we are doing. I have a young dog who recalls perfectly and can find a square inch of scented cloth in a village hall in 11s 

food didn't work with the setter (not a lot did tbf) so I am delighted to have a food oriented pup who recalls and who is very trainable. He earns his food and I don't really understand why some find that a difficult or unsavoury concept-we don't all have access to, or wish for gun dog training for our dogs. 

I wouldn't treat someone else's dog, I wouldn't mind too much as this stage, if someone else treated him-kind of depends on the situation I guess.


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## wren123 (26 November 2016)

I never carry treats on my daily walk, I reward with a kind word or a pat. I do use treats with a young dog to reinforce good behaviour.
We have always had labs though which I think are easy dogs with a natural inclination to please, as long as they get enough Exercise!


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## paddy555 (26 November 2016)

Clodagh said:



			I suppose I want a relationship whereby the dog works for love, not its stomach.
		
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this. I want to be the number one thing in it's life not food. 

Does anyone know if you have to take and use treats at dog (young dog) training classes nowadays?


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## Leo Walker (26 November 2016)

paddy555 said:



			this. I want to be the number one thing in it's life not food. 

Does anyone know if you have to take and use treats at dog (young dog) training classes nowadays?
		
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I am the number 1 thing in my dogs life, but why should they work for free? I wouldnt!

And yes every single class I have been to or spoken too requires treats


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## chillipup (26 November 2016)

paddy555 said:



			this. I want to be the number one thing in it's life not food. 

Does anyone know if you have to take and use treats at dog (young dog) training classes nowadays?
		
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At the puppy training classes I attended earlier this year with my crossbred pup, treat rewards were the be all and end all of everything we did. We were instructed to obtain a treat pouch to wear in class, as the amount we got through, under the trainer's direction, was phenomenal. 

They seemed to want us to reward all our dogs (some pups, some youngsters) with treats at every opportunity, even if we weren't asking the dog for something even just if they were sitting still. I have never treat rewarded a pup so much. Mind you, I've not had a pup for many, many years and I suppose I'm still a bit old school, so this was something new to me. Although I thought it was overkill to reward so often.

I stopped going in the end, as my pup is not particularly food orientated and all the rewards, (cooked chicken bits, little sausages and even home made liver treats) only caused her to have an upset tummy.

I don't carry treats while out exercising my girl off lead. She doesn't like to be out of sight of me and although lacking finesse,
comes to call and gets rewarded with praise every time.


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## Goldenstar (26 November 2016)

one of the things I disliked when I used to take our pups to dog training was the complete dependance on treats treats for reward treats for distraction treat treats treats .


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## CorvusCorax (26 November 2016)

That's definitely taking things to the other extreme.


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## TGM (26 November 2016)

CorvusCorax said:



			That's definitely taking things to the other extreme.
		
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I agree.  Treats should just be one of the tools in your training tool-box.   Research has shown that variable reinforcement is very effective in maintaining a behaviour.  So whilst I would treat a learning pup each time a behaviour is performed to start with, once the behaviour has been learned I would mix it up a bit.  Sometimes a very boring treat such as a bit of kibble, occasionally a tastier food morsel if the behaviour was performed particularly well or speedily, sometimes verbal praise, sometimes a toy, or a bout of play.  I find this keeps them thinking and focussed better than when they know exactly what to expect.  

I don't like to use food treats in the form of 'bribery' ie showing the food and asking for the behaviour, unless it is the very beginning of the learning process.  Ordinarily treats should be hidden and the dog shouldn't know you have them on your person until you give one as a reward.  That way you don't get the situation where the dog will only perform for food treats.


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## KittenInTheTree (26 November 2016)

Fools Motto said:



			I had a major problem earlier today, where my elderly whippet X got into 'the wrong crowd'! Her own fault (?) 
She homed in on a man walking 2 dogs, one on lead (dog aggressive, so understandably in control on leash) and a terrier off lead. Trouble is, whippet x now has a ''thing'' for most other walkers, because they have treats... and she is so gentle they give her treats..(despite my saying she doesn't need it) She has become addicted to treats! .She USED to be so loyal but now will run away to go after a 'treat person'. Is this an age thing? Her eyesight is clearly sharp, as must her nose be!  so for the first time in her 12 + years she 'whippets' off to other people! Unless I can get her before she goes, I struggle to stop her going. Normally no one minds... but today the on lead dog did. Sadly we met at cross paths - i had no idea they were there. She couldn't care less what the on lead dog was doing to her, he was having a go - poor owner was trying to stop him, while trying not to trip over my embarrassment as she was trying her hardest to get into that mans pocket! One cut ear later...
She doesn't need treats... I don't like the idea of walking with treats.... it would mean she stuck to my pocket instead of being a dog, just lumbering along sniffing, doing dog things.

Can older dogs get more ravenous and obsessive over food? 
Just wanted opinions and ideas.
Meanwhile the young spaniel has been brilliant..
		
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I would be very unimpressed at being mugged by an out of control dog, regardless of how gentle it supposedly was. I have a blind dog, and this situation would have terrified him. He doesn't like being crowded by strange dogs


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## CorvusCorax (26 November 2016)

TGM said:



			Ordinarily treats should be hidden and the dog shouldn't know you have them on your person until you give one as a reward.  That way you don't get the situation where the dog will only perform for food treats.
		
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Within reason. If I can smell black pudding and JWB fish and rice on someone, so can the dog 
I've often used the small tinfoil trays or mini tupperware pots as hidden bingos. I do deliberately use kibble that isn't too obvious/smelly.


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## burtie (26 November 2016)

I never carry treats with a n established dog, but am all for using them as part of a training tool kit.  I have on numerous occasions asked others not to treat my dog ( a lab!) and most of the time he ignores others with treats, but I confess if we pass right by someone calling their dog and it's ignoring them even with treat in their hand he will go up and sit nicely and stare at them as if to say your dogs not here but I am, so please!!(again I have to say no and they are fine but it's often a bit amusing!)


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## paddy555 (26 November 2016)

FrankieCob said:



			I am the number 1 thing in my dogs life, but why should they work for free? I wouldnt!

And yes every single class I have been to or spoken too requires treats
		
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 Not singling you out but I know you have horses so asking you and any others with nags, I know the comment will be dogs are different from horses but when your horse has done something well, for example co-operated on opening a difficult gate do you give it a treat? After all should it work for free? I don't but perhaps others do.


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## paddy555 (26 November 2016)

Goldenstar said:



			one of the things I disliked when I used to take our pups to dog training was the complete dependance on treats treats for reward treats for distraction treat treats treats .
		
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thanks to everyone who answered my question about treats at dog training. Sadly seems my new pup next year will not be going to dog training classes much as I would have liked to for socialisation purposes. There is no way that I would "treat" a dog for distraction. Being somewhat old school I have managed perfectly to train all my dogs over the years with just praise and affection not food. I can see the purpose of a food treat/chew, food filled toy etc for the purposes of distraction if it has to be taught to be left in it's bed/cage but not otherwise.


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## Teaselmeg (26 November 2016)

As I have said earlier in this thread, I don't work for free so why should my dogs ? A reward for your dog is whatever THEY find rewarding, it could be food, it could be a toy/play and possibly praise. 

Training with food is very misunderstood, its not about the dog only doing it when you have food, its about reinforcing and shaping the behaviour you want in a way that they can understand and then reducing the rate of reward once the behaviour is ingrained.  Of course I praise my dogs, but is that really enough, do they find it rewarding enough to understand what I am asking them to do and want to repeat it ?


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## Amymay (26 November 2016)

Teaselmeg said:



			As I have said earlier in this thread, I don't work for free so why should my dogs ? A reward for your dog is whatever THEY find rewarding, it could be food, it could be a toy/play and possibly praise. 

Training with food is very misunderstood, its not about the dog only doing it when you have food, its about reinforcing and shaping the behaviour you want in a way that they can understand and then reducing the rate of reward once the behaviour is ingrained.  Of course I praise my dogs, but is that really enough, do they find it rewarding enough to understand what I am asking them to do and want to repeat it ?
		
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I really love your viewpoint on this.


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## Leo Walker (27 November 2016)

paddy555 said:



			Not singling you out but I know you have horses so asking you and any others with nags, I know the comment will be dogs are different from horses but when your horse has done something well, for example co-operated on opening a difficult gate do you give it a treat? After all should it work for free? I don't but perhaps others do.
		
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I dont treat him for behaving as he should do, its ingrained behaviour for him to be polite at gates etc. However he is clicker trained and even though hes a big lump of a cob he learnt to do a very stompy spanish walk in 3 sessions using clicker training. I have to be careful with him as he is by his very nature a food obsessed thug, so treating him a lot would end in him becoming a monster so its restricted to specific clicker training we do. I dont treat the big dog a lot either. Hes 5yr old and established. I tend to treat him on a very random basis, almost always for recalling as he is a whippet and his default setting means he would much rather not and I want it to be rock solid. So again I randomly treat for coming to call in the house. We also do lots of fun games when he recalls. Same end result and methodology 

The pup probably gets about 25% of his food as treats. Hes 13 weeks old so very much a work in progress and I am very keen on positive reinforcement. He sits, does down, gives his paw, crawls, knows stay, leave, off and touch and has just started learning bed. Its never been taught before and he picked it up within 5 mins at training as he understands positive reinforcement and the clicker lets me mark the desired behaviour. He also recalls at a hundred miles an hour every time. We are now working on reinforcing those commands but extending what we expect from him. So he leaves and hes not treated until hes left for an extended period of time for example. We started puppy school 2 weeks ago. Hes the youngest there and is miles ahead of the others, its also much easier for me to train new behaviours as he understands the process and is engaged and on board, which isnt always easy to achieve with whippets who as a rule would rather please themselves than you :lol:



Teaselmeg said:



			As I have said earlier in this thread, I don't work for free so why should my dogs ? A reward for your dog is whatever THEY find rewarding, it could be food, it could be a toy/play and possibly praise. 

Training with food is very misunderstood, its not about the dog only doing it when you have food, its about reinforcing and shaping the behaviour you want in a way that they can understand and then reducing the rate of reward once the behaviour is ingrained.  Of course I praise my dogs, but is that really enough, do they find it rewarding enough to understand what I am asking them to do and want to repeat it ?
		
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Absolutely! I dont reward for things that are established, ie he knows sit and its his go to behaviour that he offers when hes being a "GOOD BOY" so we now expect him to sit longer and stay, or sit when my back is to him, or sit and leave a treat or toy n the floor. We also mix it up. Floyd has learnt down so well that when he does it he stays down no matter what happens, so now we are trying to get a down to a stand or sit. We dont treat when he does down and then get really excited and when hes up we have a fun wrestling game.


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## planete (27 November 2016)

Brilliant explanation FrankieCob!


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## MotherOfChickens (27 November 2016)

Teaselmeg said:



			Training with food is very misunderstood, its not about the dog only doing it when you have food, its about reinforcing and shaping the behaviour you want in a way that they can understand and then reducing the rate of reward once the behaviour is ingrained.  Of course I praise my dogs, but is that really enough, do they find it rewarding enough to understand what I am asking them to do and want to repeat it ?
		
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a very clear explanation from Teaselmeg and Frankiecob.

I haven't used reward based training with the horses all the time but have used it for specific things. About two years ago I started using shaping plans for different things (loading, rebacking, long reining -even though I count myself as a fairly experienced long reiner). Its not rocket science nor is it reinventing the wheel-good trainers use them without realising but for us mere mortals they are great and better for the animals imho. I started applying them to the dogs with much success, even adult dogs like the wee rescue I took on earlier this year.

Food is a tool that can be badly used or used well like any other. For example, so many people tell me that harnesses teach a dog to pull. Of course they _can_ be used to teach a dog to pull, but they don't have to be-I've had two dogs now that walk to heel on a harness ,one I didn't train and one I did.


I started puppy classed with a trainer of gun dogs and guide dogs this year. He didn't like treats (or harnesses lol) and allowed a free for all at the beginning of class that I am still dealing with the consequences of. His idea of encouraging a nervous and barky dog (not mine) was to shout at it an yank on its slip lead repeatedly. 

At scent work classes we have 6 dogs of different ages and breeds, all working and focused on what they are doing. One is an older cav who was extremely unsure of the class set up and hall floor. His first week was spent in the kitchen doing his training away from the others-he's now training happily n the hall with the rest of us. Food is a means to an end, once you switch them on to scent only they become much more focused but initially it gives them encouragement and a reason to do what we are asking them.


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## wren123 (27 November 2016)

Oh I do agree with the last few posters, my self taught instinct is that I use treats at the beginning to reinforce but not all the time. My expectation is that the dog behaves all the time and doesn't need treats, but I will give them occasionally.A bit like my children when they were at home they were expected to do things to contribute to the running of the household as a member of the family, their pocket money was not given as a payment for jobs but as spending money because I love them!!

I would love to learn gundog training it sounds very interesting, I must look at classes in my area.


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## Crugeran Celt (27 November 2016)

I suppose it depends on what you are training your dog for. My dogs recall is excellent,  they both walk to heel when I need them to, neither go on a lead unless there are lots of people around, they both know livestock is not there for their entertainment and they will both sit and wait if asked but I don't need them to anything more than enjoy their walks and behave around my horses and neighbours sheep, cows and chickens so I am not on their case constantly with their obedience.


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## Clodagh (28 November 2016)

Crugeran Celt said:



			I suppose it depends on what you are training your dog for. My dogs recall is excellent,  they both walk to heel when I need them to, neither go on a lead unless there are lots of people around, they both know livestock is not there for their entertainment and they will both sit and wait if asked but I don't need them to anything more than enjoy their walks and behave around my horses and neighbours sheep, cows and chickens so I am not on their case constantly with their obedience.
		
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I think that is an excellent point. Mine's work is retrieiving, which to her is the reward all of it's own, if she doesn't sit like a rock, for instance, she doesn't get to pick up the pheasant.


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## Crosshill Pacers (28 November 2016)

I carry treats as I have a very independently-minded Beagle (is there any other kind?!).  Her recall is good and we walk in secluded enough an area away from roads that I can let her off the lead, but I still carry treats and practice recall/reward with her just to keep her mind on me being there - she follows her nose everywhere, although she's very protective of me so if we do see another person/dog she will run back to my side (and then howl, and howl, and howl some more.  That howl is something else).

I'll be honest though, for such a brilliant area to walk dogs, and with so many dogs that I've spotted in the village, I'm surprised I don't see more people walking their dogs where we go.  We only really bump into a lady and a Poodle, which Daphne is slowly growing used to meeting.  But treats are always on hand regardless in case we have another rabbit scenario!!


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## ProSocDec (28 April 2018)

I look at many obese dogs in parks etc all have in common vets and owners and other walkers that do treats all the time, these dogs suffer as do their joints in later life, if a dogs base nature is appealed to that dog cannot be blamed for behaving like a scavenger, a dog should learn to do things as part of a team, I personally do not treat my dog with food outside the home nor do I permit vets or any other person to feed him snacks treats etc, my dog has continual positive reinforcement with praise. I have terrier which has a nature to probe and scavenge, pension due to high prey drive and survival if holed up for length of time. And in a personal note, I see my dog as a partner in our team, it feels patronising controlling him with food, I like him to be on board so it's a big no for me outside the home..


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## PucciNPoni (28 April 2018)

ProSocDec said:



			I look at many obese dogs in parks etc all have in common vets and owners and other walkers that do treats all the time, these dogs suffer as do their joints in later life, if a dogs base nature is appealed to that dog cannot be blamed for behaving like a scavenger, a dog should learn to do things as part of a team, I personally do not treat my dog with food outside the home nor do I permit vets or any other person to feed him snacks treats etc, my dog has continual positive reinforcement with praise. I have terrier which has a nature to probe and scavenge, pension due to high prey drive and survival if holed up for length of time. And in a personal note, I see my dog as a partner in our team, it feels patronising controlling him with food, I like him to be on board so it's a big no for me outside the home..
		
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Interesting point of view.  Generally speaking in my work handling dogs every day, I use praise rather than food.  That is more of a statement on the fact that I need my hands to do other things rather than feeding a dog - that and I would rather not treat a dog that I don't know it's dietary needs which may differ from what I have to hand.  

However having said that, my dogs do work for food.   Ironically my bitch who loves her grub (and does tend to be overweight particularly since she was spayed) works for a toy.  She won't even consider food when out and about because she is ball obsessed.  She IS my partner and is very focused on me even without the toy or food as a reward.  

My young dog is still learning the rules and very much looks forward to his food reward.  The old dog likes a food reward but couldn't give a damn about it if something takes his interest elsewhere.  Neither of those dogs is overweight, and in fact the youngster could do with gaining a touch. 

I walk mine with treats  - but it's there as a reinforcement of praise rather than a bribe.


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## blackcob (28 April 2018)

Zombie thread. My thinking hasn't changed a lot - a kind word and a pat on the head will not get you far with some dogs.


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## MotherOfChickens (28 April 2018)

ProSocDec said:



			I look at many obese dogs in parks etc all have in common vets and owners and other walkers that do treats all the time, these dogs suffer as do their joints in later life, if a dogs base nature is appealed to that dog cannot be blamed for behaving like a scavenger, a dog should learn to do things as part of a team, I personally do not treat my dog with food outside the home nor do I permit vets or any other person to feed him snacks treats etc, my dog has continual positive reinforcement with praise. I have terrier which has a nature to probe and scavenge, pension due to high prey drive and survival if holed up for length of time. And in a personal note, I see my dog as a partner in our team, it feels patronising controlling him with food, I like him to be on board so it's a big no for me outside the home..
		
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people who let their dogs get overweight, will let them get overweight regardless of whether they use treats in training or not I'd imagine.


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## Dopeydapple (28 April 2018)

I've posted before about the extremely reactive collie I walk, his owners took him to a trainer many years ago who tried to use food as a distraction / reward, this didn't work and the trainer had no other ideas so the owners gave up on training him. Whilst I'm not adverse to using food in training it can't be the only tool in your kit bag as it clearly won't work with every dog. I do tend to carry treats when walking clients dogs as I often won't know these dogs so well so a bit of bribery is fine with me. When I first walked the collie he wouldn't even take a treat on a walk when there were no other distractions let alone other dogs,  by working on  him having  more space from dogs and staying calm he is now much more relaxed and will take treats off me on a walk so he now gets these when we are at the limit of his comfort zone with a passing dog, today instead of lunging etc at a dog he only growled at him, we moved a tiny bit further away and then he sat happily to have a treat while the dog walked past &#128522;


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## ester (28 April 2018)

surely if people are using treats as part of the dogs daily ration as they should it's not going to affect weight?


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## Fools Motto (28 April 2018)

I started this thread, and sadly the old Whippet X is no longer with us. She is still much missed, and always will be. I never did take treats with me, and still to this date don't with the spaniel. I managed the old girls treat obsession by constantly looking around me, (like some sort of OCD!). I kept her close enough to pop her on a lead if I thought it needed it. Just basically had to have my wits about me, which made 'going for a walk' more of a job than a joy, but needs must.
The spaniels treat is the tennis ball. She is good that she only likes to have hers, and won't go after anyone else's. I haven't yet had any issues with her needing it to train, it's just a game which she loves.

Re Overweight MOC, I guess it depends on how much you treat 'a dog' in order for it to do what is asked of it, added on to it's usual feed! My inexperienced OH (when I first met him), fed his dog a whole bourbon biscuit when it sat, lay and rolled over! When I asked why such a big treat, it didn't even occur to him that said treat could be given in much smaller amounts..!


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## PucciNPoni (28 April 2018)

using treats and reducing food is just common sense.  Course I say that and don't necessarily follow that routine for my own diet :/


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## Fools Motto (28 April 2018)

PucciNPoni said:



			using treats and reducing food is just common sense.  Course I say that and don't necessarily follow that routine for my own diet :/
		
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Arhh, Common Sense. One assumes it's 'common', but alas... I fear not in many!


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## ProSocDec (28 April 2018)

Makes sense


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## ProSocDec (28 April 2018)

Great Post


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## ProSocDec (28 April 2018)

Am in agreement with this post due to the principle


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## ProSocDec (28 April 2018)

Great response


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## oldie48 (28 April 2018)

Sorry to hear of your whippet cross. I always have treats in my pocket. Stan is not food orientated but I've found some soft small treats that he likes and he gets a tiny bit when he comes back to me from an exciting encounter and if he walks nicely to heel off the lead. I don't feel I'm bribing him, it's just a reward for doing something well when tbh he'd probably rather do something else (he is a terrier). I don't give treats to other dogs unless I have the owners permission and I don't allow Stan to have them from other people unless he does something eg sits nicely and waits. His food allowance for the day takes into account what treats/extras he might have in the day and he's weighed regularly. I do what works for my dog and its up to other owners to keep their dogs in order. The only problem I've found is that all my coat pockets have treats in them and I have discovered that my horse definitely doesn't like them. AND yes I use treats when I turn horses out, when theyturn to face the gate, stand nicely, have their head collars off and wait, they get a treat. When I'm out of the way, they can explode!


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## conniegirl (28 April 2018)

We always carry treats, we have a beagle, he recalls beautifully if you have a treat. 
If you recall him and dont give him a treat then you can garentee he isnt coming back next time!
He doesnt have a weight issue at all, the small amount he gets is hardly going to put any weight on him.


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## CorvusCorax (28 April 2018)

Top dog and handler teams in many disciplines use food and toys as rewards. In fact dogs with strong food and ball drive are sought out in many sports. It's how a lot of exercises are shaped.
There are breeds and types of dogs bred for generations to work remotely from humans, and a pat on the head and being told he's a good boy won't cut it.

My dog is seven, no joint issues judging by how he can still haul me up mountains and he could probably do with a few pounds on. Obese dogs get fed crap and don't get exercised, they're not getting rewarded by their owners with their normal food.
I wouldn't consider it very 'teamy' to reward my own dog's output with a scratch on the ear.


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## oldie48 (29 April 2018)

CorvusCorax said:



			Top dog and handler teams in many disciplines use food and toys as rewards. In fact dogs with strong food and ball drive are sought out in many sports. It's how a lot of exercises are shaped.
There are breeds and types of dogs bred for generations to work remotely from humans, and a pat on the head and being told he's a good boy won't cut it.

My dog is seven, no joint issues judging by how he can still haul me up mountains and he could probably do with a few pounds on. Obese dogs get fed crap and don't get exercised, they're not getting rewarded by their owners with their normal food.
I wouldn't consider it very 'teamy' to reward my own dog's output with a scratch on the ear.
		
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A neighour has taken on a young rescue lab who was rather neglected by his previous owners in that they shut him away and ignored him. He's therefore very needy and attention driven ie he is constantly wanting attention usually by doing "naughty" things. He also had zero recall so can't be walked off the lead. They worked for many months with a guy who apparently trained police dogs, he wouldn't allow the use of food and it was all about them using quite forceful control (this is how they described it to me) They made very little progress. They changed trainers to one who uses food and he is making huge progress. He never gets his food in a bowl now, it is scattered around so he has to find it. They use regular fun training sessions, which he loves and she is using a long line now and his recall is starting to develop. He does the right thing and he gets a treat, when he does something they don't want he gets ignored or distracted by something else which is better. He is so much happier and so are they. Speaks volumes IMHO!


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## CorvusCorax (29 April 2018)

Police trainers don't use food that much (can you imagine what a distraction it would be for a dog on a search lol) but they do use toys/balls as motivators.

If I had a quid for every 'ex police dog trainer/I worked with police/this is an ex police dog' I've met, I could probably buy you a round or two in the pub


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## oldie48 (29 April 2018)

CorvusCorax said:



			Police trainers don't use food that much (can you imagine what a distraction it would be for a dog on a search lol) but they do use toys/balls as motivators.

If I had a quid for every 'ex police dog trainer/I worked with police/this is an ex police dog' I've met, I could probably buy you a round or two in the pub 

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Mine's a large glass of Merlot, please! My daughter's Viz isn't motivated by food at all but is by a ball. I took Stan to a beginner agility class recently and it was far too busy. If a dog was hesitant it got "helped" rather too forcibly for my liking. Stan was reluctant to jump over painted poles but tackled an A frame and bridge very happily. He got "helped" by the trainer the first time and the second time he just sat down and shook with his tail between his legs. We won't go there again, he just needed time to find his confidence, yanking him over wasn't the way to do it.


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## Clodagh (29 April 2018)

oldie48 said:



			Mine's a large glass of Merlot, please! My daughter's Viz isn't motivated by food at all but is by a ball. I took Stan to a beginner agility class recently and it was far too busy. If a dog was hesitant it got "helped" rather too forcibly for my liking. Stan was reluctant to jump over painted poles but tackled an A frame and bridge very happily. He got "helped" by the trainer the first time and the second time he just sat down and shook with his tail between his legs. We won't go there again, he just needed time to find his confidence, yanking him over wasn't the way to do it.
		
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There are some very odd 'professionals' out there, aren't there? How is force meant to help?


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## MotherOfChickens (29 April 2018)

Clodagh said:



			There are some very odd 'professionals' out there, aren't there? How is force meant to help?
		
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I had an awful experience with a trainer who trained GSDs for protection work (he certainly had the dogs and the set up for it) etc with my old collie-basically every time the dog ran to the end of his lead, the trainer jerked him several feet clear off the ground. he then wanted to repeat it with a prong collar! I left sharpish-with that dog we just trained him to heel off lead really well, we never did get him to walk on lead brilliantly but that was the least of his problems. tbh he wasn't the only trainer that thought beating the crap out of that dog was the way to go.

 I also had a poor experience with an agility trainer years later with the setter-she claimed it wasn't really important that he hadn't enjoyed it because as a setter, he'd never be any good at it anyway. Put me off agility for about a decade.


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## Sarah_K (29 April 2018)

MotherOfChickens said:



			<Snip> I left sharpish-with that dog we just trained him to heel off lead really well, we never did get him to walk on lead brilliantly but that was the least of his problems. tbh he wasn't the only trainer that thought beating the crap out of that dog was the way to go. </Snip>
		
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My dog sounds very similar. Loose lead walking is near none existent (unless I've got a bit of hotdog under his nose). Off lead though it's almost perfect no treat required. It's the same if we're at training or out and about. Sometimes wonder if it's about confidence- on lead he's relying on me to direct, offlead he thinks he has to stay close to follow directions. He is an odd little dog tho.


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## ProSocDec (30 April 2018)

I think dogs and bears have their dangerous parts because if they see the children with a ball or someone across the road with a ball it might prove really spontaneous to go for it


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## Cahill (30 April 2018)

beginners agility should maybe just some wings,no poles or other obstacles at all.


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## CorvusCorax (30 April 2018)

A lot of dogs can't deal with leash pressure. If they feel tension they try and evade/escape the restraint and don't realise its them doing it to themselves, essentially. Why a lot of dogs go better offlead.


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## Moobli (1 May 2018)

I use food rewards when training new pups or new exercises with an older dog.  I do sometimes take rewards on walks - mainly when exercising a young dog to reward recall and the older ones get a reward for recalling on those occasions too, but on an average walk with my 7 year old GSD then I don't need to take rewards.  He is well trained anyway and is ball obsessed so any play/training/reward for him involves playing/tugging with his ball.  

Use what works and what is required to have a well behaved dog when out.  Surely that much is just common sense.


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