# for Monkerhostin (and anyone else!) - lungeing gadget pics.



## kerilli (10 August 2010)

This is another HHOer's idea (I think I got it from TheMule, actually), and my pm'd description of how to fit it obviously wasn't clear enough, so here it is in pictures.





Imho this is better than a Pessoa (as well as being about 10x cheaper) because all it does is give a light alternate tweak to the bit as the horse's foreleg is in the stance part of the stride, whereas the Pessoa (unless fitted loose) seems to give quite a tug to the bit when hindleg is in stance phase. (I've never used one, but have seen them used quite a lot.)





The standing pic shows that it doesn't need to be tight AT ALL, it encourages the horse to stretch forward downwards without being tight. I'd never fit it tightly, in case horse hated the restriction, panicked, ran back, etc.
I always do the knot off-centre so it doesn't press down on the spine. I usually use it without a saddle, tbh it's prob better that way because it can slide easily then, I had to keep checking it hadn't got caught under the pad.

Best use I can think of for a pair of draw reins...   

Excuses time: I bought pink draw reins on purpose just for this (good old ebay) so i could find them at a glance amidst all my brown tack... 
The new violet-pink Anky Technical Pad is just for Ellie, this horse, who is so sweet and so I like to think it suits her! I am NOT going over to the Pink Side a la Katie Price, honest!


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## louisem (10 August 2010)

Another version I personally use,is,instead of fastening the draw-reins directly on the bit,I put them through the bit and fasten them together on the poll and have them a little looser. Gives a 'longer' and lower outline,especially for lungeing....


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## kerilli (10 August 2010)

louisem, that'd make them work more like a chambon, yes?
the only thing is that this particular mare has a fairly unstable atlas-axis joint (needs adjusting by the chiropractor on just about every visit), bad enough that at the moment i never tie her up in case she pulls back and affects it again, and i was thinking yesterday that if i put her in a chambon it'd possibly move that joint again. so, i'm a bit averse to things that might pull down at all on her poll...  i can see your point though.


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## Baggybreeches (10 August 2010)

Wow brill thanks for that Kerry, having just started making the effort to lunge my boys again (to make them vaguely pleasant to ride!), I asked my mum to return my chambon set, which she duly did, minus lunge line, lunging roller, girth loop etc! This looks like a quick and fairly straightforward idea of what I need!


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## MillionDollar (10 August 2010)

It's fab isn't it! I started using this system after I saw a video of Laura Bechtolshiemer lunging her youngsters with it  Plus it is so much easier to put on, ha ha


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## Monkerhostin (10 August 2010)

Thanks very much that is brilliant.

Very good - i will give that a try - so the draw reins dont need to be that tight at all then?


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## Roody2 (10 August 2010)

good idea!!
I have to say I use a pessoa and make sure it *isn't* so tight it gobs them on every step!!

My only reservation on the draw reins is the horse getting rubs from the reins under the elbows.


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## Kokopelli (10 August 2010)

I think this would be great for my horse but the little monster had a buck and a jump around and got his front legs tangled up and then started to panic like crazy! I am so carfeul now what I use lunging him! 

The first time he had a pessoa on was the best it took him 20mins to work out the thing behind him was not going to eat him!


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## TarrSteps (10 August 2010)

Kokopelli said:



			I think this would be great for my horse but the little monster had a buck and a jump around and got his front legs tangled up and then started to panic like crazy! I am so carfeul now what I use lunging him!
		
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If you want to try it, for the first few times/first bit of the session thread the reins through an old martingale neck strap or even an old stirrup leather around the neck.  It does change the action somewhat (which might actually be better for some horses) but it will keep everything more contained.  Another option is to use a shorter piece of rope around the body then attach a length of bungee cord so it takes up some of the slack.  Or you can make bungees that attach to a clip/ring on the girth without the bit over the back.

Putting the reins through the bit and over the poll makes it effectively a "neck stretcher" not a chambon.  Not really the same effect.  (You can buy head pieces that attach to the crown piece of the bridle and have a ring at below each ear, like the ones for "daisy reins" to rig up a "diy" chambon.  It doesn't slide as well as a proper pulley one, though, so a coarser aid.)


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## SusieT (10 August 2010)

Have to say I don't like it-potential for rubs along with pulling on withers area nevermind that problems if horse decides to have a hissy fit?
Soemthing that does pretty much the same thing (almost exactly in fact!) is the elastic bungie cord that goes over head, through bit to girth-results in same action and is elaastic (obv.) Not expensive either-might be lungee bungee as name, not sure.


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## Lou_Lou123 (11 August 2010)

I've used this for a while too and was also worried that it would rub behind the elbows/withers but I've never had trouble. It works really well for getting them to stretch. I use the cotton ones similar to those in the pictures above (except for the colour  ). As for getting tangled up in them when bucking, my horse is fairly 'exuberant' and he hasn't ever got caught up but I could see how it might happen.


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## amage (11 August 2010)

I often use this however we either hook the draw reins bein stirrupd on saddle or use leather draw reins and unbuckle them and loop through the d rings on the saddle. We use the longest draw reins we have so as to ensure they are loose and flexible and everything seems to go very happy and relaxed this way including tha racehorses.


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## kerilli (11 August 2010)

SusieT, I thought that but it has never rubbed anywhere, it just slides easily. If it was fitted tightly however it might chafe, I guess.
I've had the elastic over-poll lungee bungee for years but don't like its action so much (the poll pressure again), plus when my trainer saw it, he couldn't get it off the horse fast enough...

TarrSteps, I hadn't thought of putting it through a neckstrap... Thanks!


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## kandm (11 August 2010)

I have used this on my youngster, and think it's just fabulous for teaching him to really stretch and work over his back through from behind.


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## stuck (21 September 2010)

This is such an awesome idea, I'm going to give it a whirl. Just worried about the draw reins getting caught if the horse stretches really low?


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## kerilli (21 September 2010)

stuck said:



			This is such an awesome idea, I'm going to give it a whirl. Just worried about the draw reins getting caught if the horse stretches really low?
		
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well, i've had them trotting along with nose on the floor and not trodden on the reins, did frighten me though, so now i thread the draw reins through a loose neckstrap (TarrSteps' idea) which makes the reins act more upwards anyway (as they would going to rider's hands) and the horses still stretch forwards downwards beautifully.


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## Halfstep (21 September 2010)

I've lunged like this for years, so glad that someone else does it too!  I do ring mine up over a surcingle though, running the draw reins through the lowest ring on the Mark Todd surcingle, then up over the top - but it works the same way I think. Super rig up and most horses go extremely well in it. I only use my side reins for work in hand now


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## CrazyMare (21 September 2010)

Oooh I think I might have to give this a go when mine is back in work.....She always needs encouragement to stretch down. She does go well in a very loose Pessoa, but this looks easier to fit!!

Do you let them have a trot & canter 'free' as in without it on, then put it on, or do you start with it on?


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## kerilli (21 September 2010)

i start with it on, nice & loose.


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## mil1212 (21 September 2010)

I have some great draw reins just for this exercise, they are fully adjustable ones so you do not have to tie a knot over the horses back, I got them from ebay. They are however, not spectacular quality, but I think that is probably safer as they would definately break if something got caught up.

Does anyone have any tips on how to stop my youngster grabbing the draw reins in his mouth whilst lunging? I tried a flash noseband today to no avail. He does it with any lunging gadget he can get his lips around, side reins, bungies, the lunge line!


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## stuck (21 September 2010)

kerilli said:



			well, i've had them trotting along with nose on the floor and not trodden on the reins, did frighten me though, so now i thread the draw reins through a loose neckstrap (TarrSteps' idea) which makes the reins act more upwards anyway (as they would going to rider's hands) and the horses still stretch forwards downwards beautifully.
		
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Ah, thanks kerilli, I was a bit worried. I will give it a go with a neck strap on


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## Paint it Lucky (21 September 2010)

I tried this on my horse but was concerned that whenever he moved his legs it would catch abit on his elbows and so jab him in the mouth (even when very loose).  It generally seemed to move around alot and not give him anything to work into.  My horse is quite narrow in the chest area, don't know if this may be the reason?  Or maybe I was doing it wrong?


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## Eventer96 (21 September 2010)

What a great idea and after reading this I have just gone and bought myself of brightly coloured draw reins just to test it out!


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## BarmyC (21 September 2010)

Thank you!!

I tested this out tonight on my 5yo and it worked a treat..!

I was going to put the pessoa on but it was buried under a mountain of rugs so borrowed some draw reins and hey presto!

She worked nice and low and had a nice wet mouth which she never gets in the pessoa


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## lucemoose (21 September 2010)

if you are worried about hissy fits - my draw reins are leather and rope so have several weak spots if they need to break and i also used to attach them to the bit ring via a tiny one strand of string if needs be.






my other horse never coped with being asked to stretch so long and low so he never mastered this exercise!


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## Foxford (21 September 2010)

amage said:



			I often use this however we either hook the draw reins bein stirrupd on saddle or use leather draw reins and unbuckle them and loop through the d rings on the saddle. We use the longest draw reins we have so as to ensure they are loose and flexible and everything seems to go very happy and relaxed this way including tha racehorses.
		
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Yes, my instructor does this too!


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## OneInAMillion (21 September 2010)

kerilli said:



			bad enough that at the moment i never tie her up in case she pulls back and affects it again, and i was thinking yesterday that if i put her in a chambon it'd possibly move that joint again. so, i'm a bit averse to things that might pull down at all on her poll...  i can see your point though.
		
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What about using an elastic tie thingy!?! She then wouldn't get the pull on her head so much if she did pull back.


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## MissTyc (21 September 2010)

I also use this method, though I like to use a long bungee instead of draw reins .... might have to give it a go with draw reins to see if there's any difference


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## joseyjo88 (21 September 2010)

We have used this method for a while, and have seen alotof horses improve in their way of going. its great too as its much quicker to lunge 4/5 like this, you can spend more time working them and less time tacking up!


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## diggerbez (21 September 2010)

ooooh thanks for the pic K! i have a pessoa but V doesn't go that well in it (he almost tries to sit down on the fleecey thing under his bum!) so i tend to just use side reins- however, he never fully stretches down in them- so will deffo try this! if it works i'm flogging my pessoa- i don't even use it, a girl on my yard borrows it 3 x a week (yes that would be 3x!)- she can buy it off me!


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## charlie76 (22 September 2010)

I tried this last night on my horse that really doesn't get the whole stretch idea, well it worked a treat and he went beautifully so thanks!


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## palomino_pony (2 October 2010)

Have a proper Kalvakade one that Laura B uses (see horse hero advert) that I might sell. Just like the OP pic in action but thinner rope. Works amaziingly well.


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## TopTotty (19 October 2010)

I have just tried this and have to say I will be doing more of it in the future.  It made my little mare think about stretching down and she just had to fight with herself and not me when she wanted to put her head up in her transitions.  A good quick alternative to riding all the time.


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## Stormy123456 (19 October 2010)

I too have found this realy useful. Thanks Kerrilli. My mare who has been a complete baggage, completely accepted it, stretched beautifully, and schooling her the day after was a trillion  times better than before! Initially thought it was a fluke, but she does seem to have accepted the flatwork from there after. Thank you.


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## woodlandswow (21 October 2010)

i am very excited about getting home tomorrow night and trying this out!! .... have had problems with my horse not streching down for nearly a year now
it is so fustrating as he has the potential to go BE novice jumping, but havent quite got there with the whole strech low thing!!
will tell u how i get on!


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## 3DE (22 October 2010)

In all the pictures it looks like it is just pulling the horses onto the forehand 

I'm all for working long and low but not in a way that pulls the horse onto the forehand...


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## MrsMozart (22 October 2010)

Hm. Interesting 

Dizz goes well in the Pessoa - it's the one thing she doesn't argue with - and she stretches down, working long and low. She seems quiter relaxed and comfortable in it even when it has been tightened up a bit. We start off loose and tighten as we go, depending on what work she has had recently and how she's going on the day. So used to putting it on now that it only takes a couple of minutes to get it sorted , plus she's now the only one it goes on, so no adjustments needed (always loosen it off back to the starting point at the end of each session ).

This weekend, if I can get D2 to video, I'll get a vid of Dizz in the Pessoa and then one of her in this set up. Although it will be her first time in this it will be interesting to see the difference .


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## sabel (22 October 2010)

Just wanted to say that this was fabulous when I used it on my ex racehorse. 
He is not keen on side reins at all but have tried this a couple of times (draw reins attached to rings on noseband and through neck strap) and he worked much better than he ever has on the lunge before! 
So thanks to everyone for this post


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## kerilli (22 October 2010)

Inky_and_Sunny said:



			In all the pictures it looks like it is just pulling the horses onto the forehand 

I'm all for working long and low but not in a way that pulls the horse onto the forehand...
		
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Really? Oh dear.
In the first picture, my mare does not look on the forehand in the slightest to me. If anything her withers are slightly higher than her rump, she's just about uphill. Okay, she's not stretching down much yet but cf the next pic...
The second picture, of her standing, is the frame she trots around in without this on. Not exactly beneficial.
MillionDollar's roan is working really through in it, no way does that look on the forehand to me in the slightest.
Maybe we're looking at different things... But how can it pull the horse onto the forehand if it is loose, and just 'suggesting' a different frame? Seriously, I can't work out the logic of that?


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## Leg_end (22 October 2010)

Inky_and_Sunny said:



			In all the pictures it looks like it is just pulling the horses onto the forehand 

I'm all for working long and low but not in a way that pulls the horse onto the forehand...
		
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Another one who doesn't agree with this. No none of them are working massively uphill but I wouldn't expect that from this exercise. As far as my eye can see they are all relaxed, stretching through and all working correctly. 

I will be trying this out on my new lad when he arrives


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## siennamum (22 October 2010)

I think the point of devices like this - and Chambons, is that it does load the front end unless the horse adjusts and engages the hind end. Initially it can put them on the forehand, but unless they want to trip up they have to sit a little more and lift their shoulders.

My youngster works beautifully in this and I like the fact that the contact isn't static, it makes him think. He initially goes on the ferehand as he thinks that's his only choice when his head is down, he trips up, then he has to balance himself, and he starts to elevate his shoulders.

I think this is potentially quite strenous for him and so only do 15 mins really, but I think it's a great system.


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## 3DE (22 October 2010)

siennamum said:



			I think the point of devices like this - and Chambons, is that it does load the front end unless the horse adjusts and engages the hind end. Initially it can put them on the forehand, but unless they want to trip up they have to sit a little more and lift their shoulders.

My youngster works beautifully in this and I like the fact that the contact isn't static, it makes him think. He initially goes on the ferehand as he thinks that's his only choice when his head is down, he trips up, then he has to balance himself, and he starts to elevate his shoulders.

I think this is potentially quite strenous for him and so only do 15 mins really, but I think it's a great system.
		
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Sienna's mum - that makes sense, thankyou  Thanks for explaining rather than shooting me down in flames


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## MillbrookSong (22 October 2010)

Oh think I will be trying this next week on Song, always lunge in side reins and as others we don't get the long and low that he needs to start using his behind!


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## bigboyrocky (24 October 2010)

Woop woop, worked a treat on my boy yesterday! am planning on doing it again tomorow, and a lot more often! Thanks HHOers


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## TuscanBunnyGirl (26 March 2012)

Will be trying this on my mare tomorrow


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## jennywren07 (26 March 2012)

We use these at work and i was thinking about getting one untill i saw the price!! http://www.classicdressage.com/catalog/product.php?CI_ID=409&Item='Cotton Lunge Aid'

I shall justbe investing in a pair of draw reins now. thanks op!!


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## Bearskin (26 March 2012)

siennamum said:



			I think the point of devices like this - and Chambons, is that it does load the front end unless the horse adjusts and engages the hind end. Initially it can put them on the forehand, but unless they want to trip up they have to sit a little more and lift their shoulders.

My youngster works beautifully in this and I like the fact that the contact isn't static, it makes him think. He initially goes on the ferehand as he thinks that's his only choice when his head is down, he trips up, then he has to balance himself, and he starts to elevate his shoulders.
		
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In order to elevate the shoulders and sit a horse has to have the poll as the highest point and its hindlegs underneath it.  This device and the chambon (more so) encourage the horse to move through its body with the hind legs taking long steps forward and pushing out behind. When the horse finds its balance it encourages suppleness through the body.  It should not be used too often (in my opinion) but as an aid to teach an "upside down" or weak horse that it is able to use its body in a different way.  

Because of the reasons stated above, I dislike the Pessoa; it asks the horse to stretch in front yet stifles the hind legs by not allowing them to push out behind when in a long/low outline.


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## Sol (26 March 2012)

I have a sensitive poneh and draw reins never rubbed or marked him. He did manage to fall over once, but tbh I think he would have done even in just a lunge rein as it was his own silly fault for trying to bog off - he ran at just the wrong angle to the lunge line & managed to go head over heels. Didn't get tangled though, just stood up, looked at me a bit confused and didn't try to sod off again. He's also bucked etc in it and never got tangled. I usually use it with a headcollar not a bridle so no pressure on the mouth


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## Carefreegirl (26 March 2012)

Can any of you that use this method post a video of you using it ? It looks bizarre to me but it obviously works. I'm a Pessoa fan - sorry Bearskin  but open to ideas. My mare is built downhill but the Pessoa works brilliantly with her. Once she's sound again I'll give it a try.


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## kerilli (26 March 2012)

i did these ages ago, hope they help:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkCuVUSt4OM&list=UUcmiEj3iErZ2_d7O9FB6RIA&index=10&feature=plcp
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0tGUV-jW4Q&list=UUcmiEj3iErZ2_d7O9FB6RIA&index=9&feature=plcp


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## Carefreegirl (26 March 2012)

Great thanks. I'll study them tomorrow and try on YO's.


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## Prinzess (27 March 2012)

I haven't read the whole thing so apologise if this has already been asked, but I only have leather draw reins, with rope like these: http://www.johnwhitakerintltd.com/product_detail.cfm?id=EDR

Would they work? Or would the buckle possibly rub on the spine as it would be central? I need to check them for length yet anyway, but would save me buying a new set. Thanks


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## ironhorse (27 March 2012)

We do this with the baby western horses to help them learn about a light contact - it's also good for exercising and stretching the more established horses. 
We use the mildest snaffle and or course our bridles have split reins that are long enough to go between the front legs and knot on the withers  The gentle 'bump bump' that the rein touching the elbows creates is actually like the light rein aid that we use.
You might need to encourage them forward to stop them dropping on the forehand but generally once they get the idea they love this - even my youngster who can be a cheeky git in the lunge pen! (If you've got a pen you can use it for loose schooling which is even better) Typically my mare's conformation is such that the rein slips back on her if I don't use it with a saddle (I have to use a breastplate if lungeing her in a roller or it becomes a bucking strap!!!) but you can experiment to suit each horse.


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## kerilli (27 March 2012)

Prinzess, i think it depends where the rope changes to leather, if that's anywhere near where the horse's armpits are (for want of a better word!) it might rub.
nylon draw reins are cheap as chips on ebay, i think mine were £5 or something.
ironhorse, have you tried using a neckstrap and a loop of twine from neckstrap to reins-knotted-at-wither, for the ones which it travels backwards on? i have 1 in particular that i have to do this with, and it works perfectly, saves putting a roller on, i find they move freer without the roller. just a thought anyway.


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## Jingleballs (30 March 2012)

I'm really interested in trying this for my boy - he hated the pessoa type gadget that I previously used and to be honesty I found it such a hassle to put it on and I always ended p getting in a fankle!

I've never used dras reins or side reins or the likes before - is it a case of the more elasticated the better or does it matter?  I was looking at the John Whitaker bungee and wondering if using one of those (might need two to make it long enough) would also work!

Thanks for sharing this!


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## kerilli (30 March 2012)

Babybear said:



			I'm really interested in trying this for my boy - he hated the pessoa type gadget that I previously used and to be honesty I found it such a hassle to put it on and I always ended p getting in a fankle!

I've never used dras reins or side reins or the likes before - is it a case of the more elasticated the better or does it matter?  I was looking at the John Whitaker bungee and wondering if using one of those (might need two to make it long enough) would also work!

Thanks for sharing this!
		
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i don't use elasticated draw reins, just nylon ones that will slide easily, cheap as chips on ebay. the advantage of the expensive custom-made ones is that you can adjust the length, whereas i put a slip-knot in mine and then knot it again to hold it... that way the slip knot doesn't get pulled too tight to undo and move (if that makes sense).


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## Goldenstar (30 March 2012)

I use this a lot I call it a lunging rope mine is round rope and you adjust with a thingy in the middle I was really worried it would rub but I have never had a problem . It causes much less over bending than Pessoa and as I am often working with horses who have been driven and who mostly just tense agaist poll pressure so bungees don't work. I build them up to lunging in it over poles and find it very effective . I usually progress to vienna reins later on.


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## Jingleballs (30 March 2012)

kerilli said:



			i don't use elasticated draw reins, just nylon ones that will slide easily, cheap as chips on ebay. the advantage of the expensive custom-made ones is that you can adjust the length, whereas i put a slip-knot in mine and then knot it again to hold it... that way the slip knot doesn't get pulled too tight to undo and move (if that makes sense).
		
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Makes perfect sense thanks!


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