# Dr riders wearing protective hats...



## kerilli (4 February 2011)

http://www.riders4helmets.com/?p=2116

Debbie McDonald (U.S. Olympic rider) got bronc'd off a young dr horse onto her head, and escaped with concussion, facial lacerations and whiplash.
Ever since Courtney King-Dye incurred such terrible head injuries DM has been wearing a hat every time, and believes her hat saved her life.

so... please, stick your hats on, guys. it's a no-brainer. leave the vegetables for supper...


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## kezimac (4 February 2011)

did i read yesterday that the US have made it compulsary to wear helmets in competition? Or was i imagining it? 
Hope its right.


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## Rowreach (4 February 2011)

I am all for dressage riders wearing proper headgear at all times, at all levels of competition.  I also understand there will be a lot of people who believe it comes down to personal choice.

Serious question Kerilli, will you be wearing your top hat next time you are competing in tails?  I am just interested


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## kerilli (4 February 2011)

yes, definitely for Eventing anyway afaik. 
tbh I think that the Circus Ringmaster look is seriously on its way out. Good. A top hat is about as protective as the box it came in...
Steffen Peters wore a protective hat for the prizegiving at WEG, and dedicated his ride to Courtney. Great stuff. Just trying to find a photo!

more food for thought from riders4helmets:

#4 Think you are too good to need a helmet? WRONG. &#8220;The better you ride the harder you fall. Beginners fall off. Good riders get launched&#8221; &#8211; Jean White.


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## SpottedCat (4 February 2011)

kezimac said:



			did i read yesterday that the US have made it compulsary to wear helmets in competition? Or was i imagining it? 
Hope its right.
		
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Yes, but only at national level - they (like everyone else) have no jurisdiction over FEI level competition. That's why BE cannot outlaw Top Hat and Tails at 1* eventing - it's not up to them! And as FEI only 'discourage' it, then it gets to stay.


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## Rowreach (4 February 2011)

Great stuff!  And a fit dressage horse will launch you a long way


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## Saratoga (4 February 2011)

Be interesting to find out if all those who fully support wearing a hat at all times also wear a hard hat with tails, and a fully harnessed hat instead of a beagler. If safety it paramount, top hats and beaglers should also be banned.


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## Tempi (4 February 2011)

Saratoga said:



			Be interesting to find out if all those who fully support wearing a hat at all times also wear a hard hat with tails, and a fully harnessed hat instead of a beagler. If safety it paramount, top hats and beaglers should also be banned.
		
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Totally agree with this ^^^

Surely top hats and beaglers should be banned?


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## SpottedCat (4 February 2011)

http://www.usef.org/_IFrames/newsdisplay/viewPR.aspx?id=6571&star=true

Beaglers (or hunt caps as they call them) are now banned in the USA for any national level competition. If you are a para-rider you must wear a protective helmet even if riding in an FEI class (well that's the way it reads anyway). They cannot ban top hats with tails because the FEI make the rules not the national federations, so it is not up to the USEF to ban top hats, and even if they did, it would not be enforcable.


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## stencilface (4 February 2011)

kerilli said:



			more food for thought from riders4helmets:

#4 Think you are too good to need a helmet? WRONG. &#8220;The better you ride the harder you fall. Beginners fall off. Good riders get launched&#8221; &#8211; Jean White.
		
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Love this - so so true.

I admit to riding with no hat in the past (actually bareback and in a headcollar  ) but wouldn't even attempt it now, and I really don't see why top hats aren't banned either - totally stupid imho

You wouldn't see a racing driver doing all his practise runs with all the protective stuff on, and then as soon as it gets to a comp, drive round wearing a baseball cap because it looks 'cooler' would you? Afaik (stats wise) horse riding is probably more dangerous!


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## Baggybreeches (4 February 2011)

kerilli said:



			Think you are too good to need a helmet? WRONG. The better you ride the harder you fall. Beginners fall off. Good riders get launched  Jean White.
		
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I totally agree with this, as someone whose falling off ratio goes up as my horses get fitter!


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## Prince33Sp4rkle (4 February 2011)

i seriously hope that BD do not follow suit.
i usually wear a hard hat with harness anyway, but will fight hard to retain my right to swap for a top hat for young horse classes and regionals/champs.


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## kerilli (4 February 2011)

Saratoga said:



			Be interesting to find out if all those who fully support wearing a hat at all times also wear a hard hat with tails, and a fully harnessed hat instead of a beagler. If safety it paramount, top hats and beaglers should also be banned.
		
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absolutely.
i won't be replacing my now-very-tatty top hat, i'm getting a really snazzy velvet-covered flesh-coloured-harnessed hat for dr.  i think they look lovely. 
beagler will be for prizegivings only, if i ever get to one again!

i managed to forget my hat the other day when i went to ride a horse (durr), had to borrow one that was a bit tight, but i'd rather have a temporary headache than risk brain damage...


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## MrsMozart (4 February 2011)

Speaking as one who has tried brain damage and found it not to her liking, and who will be stepping into the dressage arena at some point, I'll be wearing m'crash hat (Charles Owen, tall, velvet) and pah to anyone else. If they are foolish enough to ride in a paper hat, then leave them to it.

For the more bored amongst you, the light sweep to the left isn't meant to be there,


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## kerilli (4 February 2011)

MrsM, you have a very smiley brain, looks as if it has chipmunk cheeks. very pretty. so glad it's still working nicely...  ;0

Courtney King-Dye's blog is very... enlightening. when she talks about learning to walk again, about actually having to concentrate on exactly HOW to walk (the way most of us haven't since we were about 2 years old), it really brought it home to me:

this is from 19 Jan:
I always told my students to pick one flaw and focus all your attention on that. When that becomes instinctual, focus on the next thing. You can make little corrections of the other flaws, but keep your focus on the one thing. Sometimes fixing the one flaw helps the others. Working on me appears to be similar. I've been told many things about my walking, but a couple weeks ago my PT down here, Sharon, said to think about leaving my toe on the ground so it can push off, which was new. So a few days ago I realized I was focused on leaving the the toe down on my right leg but not thinking about that on the left leg. Then I tried to leave the toe down on my right leg and realized my left leg was always in a hurry to step, to avoid taking weight on my right leg, and stepping with my right leg was always slow. So I started out my walk this morning thinking, "fast with the right, slow with the left," and I kept getting screwed up. So instead I just focussed on keeping the left leg slow, keeping the toe on the ground. Doing that made my right step quicker. That's when it struck me that horse training is the same way. Then I started to think about it and check other things. People had always told me to shift my weight, and, wouldn't you know it, slowing down my left step made me transfer weight. People always told me to take a longer step on the left because it was always shorter than the right. Fixed that, too, waiting allowed my left leg to move farther.
Another way they're similar is, as my other PT, Stacy says, it's quality not quantity I always told my students, you can do 20 shoulder ins, but if 17 of them are done incorrectly, that's what the horse learns. If you do 2, and both are done correctly, that's what the horse learns. I can walk 1000 steps, but if they're done incorrectly, that's what my muscles learn. I can do 10 steps, but if they're done correctly that's what my muscles learn.
I think it's worked out perfectly. Kessler was great to start out. Adam was great and demanded strength and control, which was right for the time. And Stacy and Sharon both focus on finesse, which is right for now.


blog at http://www.courtneykingdressage.com/


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## louisem (4 February 2011)

Might extend the rule,always to wear a hard hat while hanging out my just-washed winter rugs on the line in high winds,following a cartoon-like gash and lump in the middle of my forehead caused by a flying buckle.....;-)) DOH!


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## kerilli (4 February 2011)

louisem said:



			Might extend the rule,always to wear a hard hat while hanging out my just-washed winter rugs on the line in high winds,following a cartoon-like gash and lump in the middle of my forehead caused by a flying buckle.....;-)) DOH!
		
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ouch, nightmare, poor you. maybe you need an American Football Helmet thing, like this:

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgu...page=1&ndsp=32&ved=1t:429,r:4,s:0&tx=71&ty=71


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## SusieT (4 February 2011)

Curious why you think it isn't doubel standards to say everyone should wear them..but you won't for prize giving?


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## SpottedCat (4 February 2011)

SusieT said:



			Curious why you think it isn't doubel standards to say everyone should wear them..but you won't for prize giving?
		
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99% of Eventing prize giving is on foot! Unless Kerilli is spectacularly clumsy, I think she'll be safe in her beagler.....

I don't think she was talking about big 3 day prize giving which is mounted....

Even the big classes at something like Barbury Castle are on foot.


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## Paladine (4 February 2011)

As an American affected by this rule . . . I am all for personal choice.  

So, if someone breaks a rib in a fall, will we also have to wear body protectors?  There is an element of danger to any horse sport that will never be eliminated.

I'm not anti-helmet- I am very thankful for it when I fell off a couple weeks ago.

I think it's a knee jerk reaction personally.  Most people who wear hunt caps in the ring do not wear helmets at home, IMO.  So I don't think making helmets mandatory in the show ring will make a difference at home- where the majority of accidents occur.  

I'm all for making the Jrs wear them, but I think the rest of us should have a say.  Many have already gone and done it in the past year to make a statement for Courtney (who is not a helmet nazi, btw), but to make it a national rule is a bit overboard, when there are many pressing issues like safer XC and safer riding and instruction.


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## kerilli (4 February 2011)

SpottedCat said:



			99% of Eventing prize giving is on foot! Unless Kerilli is spectacularly clumsy, I think she'll be safe in her beagler.....

I don't think she was talking about big 3 day prize giving which is mounted....

Even the big classes at something like Barbury Castle are on foot.
		
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Yes, that's it. I just about trust myself to walk up and accept a rosette without a safety hat on! Only had to attend one mounted event prize giving in my life!


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## combat_claire (4 February 2011)

I have strayed in here from the hunting forum as headwear is something that causes more debate amongst hunting folk than anyone. I personally always wear a Charles Owen Showjumper XP riding hat on the hunting field, because as much as I admire the elegant cut of the Pateys compared to my safety hat I don't think quadraplegic is a good look.

I also play cricket where it is not compulsory for over 18s to wear a helmet for batting. However I feel it is my job as a senior member of the team to set a good example to younger members and always wear my skid lid whether in the nets or for matches. 

I have been avidly reading Melanie Reid's column in the Times and I would recommend any rider to read it:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/melanie_reid/article7106702.ece


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## galaxy (4 February 2011)

louisem said:



			Might extend the rule,always to wear a hard hat while hanging out my just-washed winter rugs on the line in high winds,following a cartoon-like gash and lump in the middle of my forehead caused by a flying buckle.....;-)) DOH!
		
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I've done this too!    I actually passed out, had blood trickling down my face and my mum rushed me to A&E.....  horrifically embarassing!

I now ALWAYS do back leg straps back up as I take a rug off....


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## dibbin (4 February 2011)

louisem said:



			Might extend the rule,always to wear a hard hat while hanging out my just-washed winter rugs on the line in high winds,following a cartoon-like gash and lump in the middle of my forehead caused by a flying buckle.....;-)) DOH!
		
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I need a protective tacking up hat. I've (more than once, I might add) punched myself in the face when my hand's slipped off a girth strap when I'm putting the saddle on. Ouchy


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## TheMule (4 February 2011)

I think for competition it should be compulsory. It's sheer vanity that stops people wearing proper hats.

At home- adults are free to make their own choice and weigh up the risks. I will always wear a hat, just as I always wear a seat belt in the car- why would I want to increase my risk of dieing? I like my life!!


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## kerilli (4 February 2011)

dibbin said:



			I need a protective tacking up hat. I've (more than once, I might add) punched myself in the face when my hand's slipped off a girth strap when I'm putting the saddle on. Ouchy 

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i did that the other day. face visor definitely required...


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## MrsMozart (4 February 2011)

I have come to the conclusion that it is each to their own.

Think about it, if someone is daft enough to partake in a sport that has the danger levels that ours does, without wearing protective headgear...., what does it say for them?

Even if the person isn't bothered about the possiblity of brain damage, etc., if they aren't bothered about the effect it has on their nearest and dearest, then its up to the individual to deal with that one. Oh, just remembered, they won't be able to, they'll be brain damaged. But, again, that's up to the individual to deal with, and one hopes that the people around them are the understanding sort.

Note: I speak from a slightly different angle to most as I've had the silly fall, the nothing fall, that just resulted in a bashed head. No hat and I wouldn't be here to annoy the heck out of all the non-hat wearers    (no doubt there are some hat wearers I annoy as well  ).


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## dibbin (4 February 2011)

I love my hat  last time I fell off - silly fall in the arena, Dylan did a BIG spook on a canter circle and I did my best Superman impersonation lol - my head was the last thing to hit the ground, and I _felt_ my teeth rattle. Not pleasant, would have been worse without the skid lid!


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## ArcticFox (4 February 2011)

I know someone who knows Melanie personally and when she had her accident they were very traumatised.  I apologise in advance to those who know my strong opinion on this. But not wearing a hat is stupid, yes it might be your decision but think of people around you. 

Also, My sister was air lifted at the end of last year, she had to bail off a horse and landed on her head.  If she hadn't been wearing a hat, she would be dead - this is what the doctors said. She has a little bit of short term memory loss now but its getting better all the time.   She did break her collar bone, and maybe a body protector would have prevented that - but she was still alive so body protectors do stop paralysing injuries but the point of a hat is to prevent death.  

I also met a girl in Oz and rode her horses as she had been paralysed due to not wearing a hat.  And a colleague of mine has recently come out of hospital due to a fall - they were wearing a hat, but if they hadn't they too, would be dead. 

I would love to wear a top hat, just once, to a one star and I will probably have the inner battle with myself if I ever get that opportunity, but I think the novelty will wear off once I have done it anyway, and tbh by the time I'm eligible they may have changed the rules.  personally I don't mind if they ban top hats, it won't kill me to wear a hard hat


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## ThePony (4 February 2011)

ArcticFox said:



			it won't kill me to wear a hard hat 

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Perfectly said and sums it up in a nut shell.


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## CrazyMare (4 February 2011)

Reading Courtney King's blog it strikes me as she is very lucky.

I say that as I sit here after an 8 hour shift in a Neurobehavioural rehab unit - working with people with severe brain injuries.

I don't think I have a patient with the vocab, language & memory that Courtney has, I help teach people the very basic skills, from brushing teeth, to making tea - it is a VERY long road, and life is never the same again for them or their families.

Repeatedly I am struck by how fragile life is, how these people I work with were like me one day, and everything changed in a moment - that could be you or me, and I seriously mean that.

Makes me seize every day, do everythign & put nothing off, but try to manage the risks in my life.


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## Kat (4 February 2011)

When I was a child a family friend's daughter fell off a horse without her hat on. 

She was helping out at a riding school, just like I used to, and for some reason got on a horse "just for a minute" without a hat. It wasn't a lesson, she wasn't even really going anywhere, but she came off onto the concrete yard. Several anxious days and weeks followed for her family as they waited to see what the damage was, she fractured her skull but didn't damage her brain permanently. She was INCREDIBLY lucky. 

I'd never ridden without a helmet anyway, and our riding school was very strict about hats, but this rammed the always wear your hat message home hard. My mum read me and my sister the riot act and vowed that if she ever found out we had ridden without a hat she would never ever let us near a horse again. As it was she nearly killed me when she found out what I was doing when I fell off and broke my arm and collar bone! 

Even now if I see pictures in adverts or whatever of someone without a hat the first thing I think is God my Mum would kill me - and I'm in my 30s!!!


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## TheoryX1 (4 February 2011)

Can I ask a silly question?  Why do dressage riders not wear protective headgear?  Are dressage horses exempt from broncing, rearing, bucking, spooing, firing their riders off at a great rate of knots into the arena fence?  Are those headbands they all seem to sport some form of protective headgear?

I am a great advocate for hat wearing.  I do not think it looks elegant or smart to ride without one.  My daughter keeps begging me to buy her a Patey (I have just sold mine on ebay), so she can compete at Intermediate Novice or Intermediate (when the time is right), so she looks the part.  Tough titty darling, you will wear your smart Charles Owen with a PC purple sticker and a BE yellow sticker on it and put up with it.  We have got a copule of teenagers on our yard who think its dead cool not to wear a hat.  My blood boils when I think of it.  Their mother just smiles indulgently and says that they know their own horses.  I bet she would be thinking differently if she was sitting in intensive care with them after a nasty fall ....... heaven forbid.

I agree its each to their own, but I wish someone would make it illegal to ride without a protective hat, in the same way it is to ride a motor cycle. At least you can control a motorcycle - its not a living thing like a horse.

Kerilli - this one has got legs!


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## vallin (4 February 2011)

Any chance we can make it compulsory to wear cycle helmets too? They make it illegal not to have lights on your bike, but not to not wear a helmet...erm...


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## fiarmay (4 February 2011)

warming up for a BD adv med at beginning of jan i was wearing my champion gpa lookalike can't remember what its called and of the 4 other riders warming up for the medium only 1 was wearing a beagler so think people are thinking about it more and not following old traditional dress


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## ArcticFox (4 February 2011)

I think the charles owen XP showjumper hat looks so nice I went and bought one for Dr at events!


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## Rosiefan (4 February 2011)

Just finished reading Courtney's blog. Takes me back a couple of years


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## cloudandmatrix (4 February 2011)

Hopefully this will have made all the "I'm a dressage rider therefore I'm so good, and my horses are so well trained that it doesnt matter if I dont wear a hat" types sit down and think a bit.
Its such an easy thing to do- put on a hat- and could save your life. I honestly dont understand why you wouldnt? Can any non hat wearer justify that to me?
Yes, hats can get hot- which is why i have an airvented one, and they can also look very smart- like my velvet covered, flesh coloured harness charles owen show hat.
I think the new american law is a step in the right direction- and I would be glad to see BE do the same.


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## HotToTrot (4 February 2011)

vallin said:



			Any chance we can make it compulsory to wear cycle helmets too? They make it illegal not to have lights on your bike, but not to not wear a helmet...erm...
		
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Agree it should be!  Sadly, though, a large number of cycling accidents involve traffic.  In a vehicle/cyclist collision, the outcome is generally a crushed cyclist and a helmet wouldn't help.  You don't have the same unpredictability on a bike; it won't spook or buck, so you're less likely to have a simple fall, but more likely just to be run over.  I do wear a helmet on my bike, but I'd feel reasonably comfortable without one.


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## kirstyhen (4 February 2011)

I teach in a riding school and I am supposed to wear a hat (I say supposed to, I normally forget and have to get it brought out to me! ) I never get on a horse, I rarely really handle them, but the point is I have a responsibilty, as someone who is looked up to by the kids, to set a good example.
I don't mind, my hat fits beautifully and I forget I'm wearing it. Plus my BE sticker and PC sticker makes me look like I've done something 

I have ridden without a hat, but it's not something I would plan on doing again. Apart from anything else, I felt weird without it! 

Each to there own, but if I caught anyone on our yard onboard without a hat, I'd shove them off myself (at 25 I'm considered an 'oldie', so at that age they don't get the choice)


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## only_me (4 February 2011)

If you want to look the top, why not invent a top hat crash hat? Could make money too 
 A proper hat that could be made to look like a top hat, with a flesh harness!

Having seen what some of the top dressage horses do at Olympia, I can't understand why anyone would not want to wear a hat 

Glad to see that things are being changed, and if america has the rule, it will only be a matter of time before BD introduces the rule


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## dominobrown (4 February 2011)

What about western? Cowboy hats are about as much use as a chocolate firguard when it comes to protection.

I personally always wear a hat, and I understand the headwear agrument.
I am a bit shocked how many of you seem so for the whole health and safety, risk assessment, no win, no fee sue culture. Everyone is so influenced by major insurance companies, it quite sad really.
This nanny culture is destroying equestrian sports. Think about all the  gymkhanas which have disappeared.
Now most secondary and definitly primary schools will not take children on any school trips.
So, although there is a perfectly valid agrument for protective headwear while riding, I am for free choice.


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## SpottedCat (4 February 2011)

The thing with the free choice argument is that if we followed that path, there would be no seat belts in cars, no requirement to wear a helmet on a motorbike, no law stipulating that those under the age of 14 must wear a helmet on a horse on the roads....

Of course we wouldn't have such a shortage of organ donors if we revoked all these laws....


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## dominobrown (4 February 2011)

Yes well riding is high risk sport, maybe body protectors should be compulsary. Maybe children shouldn't ride then. Maybe horses shouldn't hack on the roads. Maybe xc should be banned. Maybe cars should be limited to 60mph. Maybe moterbikes should be banned.

Life is high risk, thats what makes it what it is. I agree with wearing a hat but you can't force people to be wrapped up in cotton wool whether you agree with it or not. And even with all this protection, seatbelts, laws people still get killed.
You can't make a law for every hazard. 
People should (and must) be able to assess risks for themselves and think for themselves.


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## kit279 (4 February 2011)

SpottedCat - great minds think alike here! There's a word for the hatless in A&E - donors or donorcycles.

I do believe in free choice.  I also believe that you shouldn't have make a horrible mistake in order to learn a lesson.  And I won't tell you what the NHS cost of care is for someone post-brain injury.  Suffice to say, I know of a case where someone had an accident on a horse abroad, suffered a head injury and they bust through their £15 million travel insurance policy just bringing them back to the UK safely.  And that did not include their rehab and the cost of altering their home to accomodate their resulting disability.


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## only_me (4 February 2011)

But you could be sensible & try to manage the risks.

You wear a back protector to try and minimise any serious injury if you fall xc
You train and train and train so that you can be the best rider you could be, to try to stop falling off.
You wear a seatbelt so that in the case of an accident, hopefully injury will be minimised.

Its a case of weighing up the risks & things to manage them. 

Would you go jump in the deep end of the pool if you couldnt swim? No, you would wear armbands or learn! 

Horse-riding is a very dangerous sport and the least we can do is wear a hat to protect our heads, if worst comes to worst


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## dressagecrazy (4 February 2011)

I always wore a hat & then became sloppy, moving to my own yard It got on my nerves wearing a hat so I didn't. However I have changed this now since coming off a horse last year, all I can say is thank god I was wearing a hat as I would of been in intensive care.
Ive always worn hats on horses I didn't know but Im making an effort to wear a hat on all horses.

I would however like a new hat but can't afford it. Love the look of the new hats.


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## dominobrown (4 February 2011)

Exactly only_me, yes you should wear body protecter xc etc. You should train etc. But  you could say for instance ban deep ends in swimming pools. Then there would be no risk. Ban xc, then there is no risk, etc etc. Is it fair though?
I am studying hazard managemnt at degree level (albeit on a larger scale, earthquakes, floods etc). Hazards should be managed but ther is point when you take away people's ability to think for themselves and their free will.


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## racingdemon (4 February 2011)

i have a hat with a lovely hoof print stamped into the back of it (TBH the horse that did it was going that fast i didn't notice i'd even been stood on but that's by the by) 
i used to know a guy that had a horrible head injury falling off onto concrete, if he hadn't been wearing a hat he would be very dead

i have even taken to wearing a hat when handling some of our youngsters, esp in weather like today! 

on a different note, skiing this year i wore a helmet, so did most people i skied with, years ago noone wore helmets skiing, but i think natasha richardson's death highlighted to people that actually skiing is also quite a dangerous sport

i think we know more about risk these days, my mum rode hatless for years, and wore a patey for hunting, my dad rode in a flat cap or top hat, my granny a lovely silk headscarf, or a bowler or patey, and so on, these days my mum has a crash hat & wouldn't dream of wearing anything else! 

crash hats & velvet harness hats are a lot more stylish than they used to be, and i think they'll only get better as technology progresses, so we can hopefully remain both safe & vain!!


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## ArcticFox (4 February 2011)

racingdemon said:



			i used to know a guy that had a horrible head injury falling off onto concrete, if he hadn't been wearing a hat he would be very dead

crash hats & velvet harness hats are a lot more stylish than they used to be, and i think they'll only get better as technology progresses, so we can hopefully remain both safe & vain!!
		
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Is very dead worse than dead?     (sorry being cheeky now i've had a pimms)

I agree that hats are becoming more stylish, although I don't understand why no-one has brought out a PAS015 (or SNELL) top hat with flesh coloured harness,  I'm sure it would look good once people were used to seeing it!  

Beaglers have already had safety put into them - they are called riding hats with harness


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## SpottedCat (4 February 2011)

I do think this is a generational thing RD - I know it was drilled into me to wear a hat at all times by my parents on a horse/bike so I still do it. All my friends wear helmets to climb/snowboard/ride/bike - at last count I have a snowboard helmet, a skate helmet (for roller derby), three riding hats, a cycling helmet, a climbing helmet and my hard hat for site work!

I think as our generation becomes the 'older generation' of riders, it will gradually fade out and protective head gear will become the norm - if a ban doesn't come in before that.


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## racingdemon (4 February 2011)

LOL at very dead!! obviously it is much more dead than just dead


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## FrodoBeutlin (4 February 2011)

All that dressage needs is literally ONE top rider competing with a helmet. Dressage is all about fashion -- if Edward Gal rode a test with a helmet instead of a top hat, everybody would follow suit.

At the Munster international Patrick Kittel warmed up with a tailcoat and helmet, and Kirsten Sieber did too


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## racingdemon (4 February 2011)

absolutely SC, already my boys have helmets galore, and i'm very concious of setting a good example of helmet wearing, I was very excited to see some really cool ski helmet covers recently!


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## Mike007 (4 February 2011)

I srongly suspect that lady Godiva still wore a hat!!!!!!!!!!!


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## kerilli (4 February 2011)

fiarmay said:



			warming up for a BD adv med at beginning of jan i was wearing my champion gpa lookalike can't remember what its called and of the 4 other riders warming up for the medium only 1 was wearing a beagler so think people are thinking about it more and not following old traditional dress
		
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that's really good to know.   

re: "Are dressage horses exempt from broncing, rearing, bucking, spooing, firing their riders off at a great rate of knots into the arena fence?"

Yes, obviously, because all that raw power and exceptional athleticism is obviously totally controllable, you can just turn it off at a second's notice...  
or maybe it's only Olympic standard riders like Courtney and Debbie who get bucked off... lesser riders like us lot would obviously NEVER have that happen to us...


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## kerilli (4 February 2011)

dominobrown said:



			I personally always wear a hat, and I understand the headwear agrument.
I am a bit shocked how many of you seem so for the whole health and safety, risk assessment, no win, no fee sue culture. Everyone is so influenced by major insurance companies, it quite sad really.
This nanny culture is destroying equestrian sports. Think about all the  gymkhanas which have disappeared.
Now most secondary and definitly primary schools will not take children on any school trips.
So, although there is a perfectly valid agrument for protective headwear while riding, I am for free choice.
		
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where did any of us say anything at all about Health and Safety, the litigation culture, etc etc?
i'm for free choice too. if i had children, i'd allow them go through grids without stirrups and reins, play bareback cowboys and indians, all the things i did (with a hat on, fwiw! mother made me wear one of those hideous JOFA things). but we're talking about adult riders (who, however you look at it, are bigger, heavier, therefore fall harder - pure physics - and whose bones aren't as bendy...!) falling from higher up on big powerful comp horses, not kids on ponies. i had countless falls as a kid and never hurt myself. wish i was still that light and bendy!


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## teapot (4 February 2011)

FrodoBeutlin said:



			At the Munster international Patrick Kittel warmed up with a tailcoat and helmet, and Kirsten Sieber did too  

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But they didn't ride their test with one did they? That's the difference. Like you say, we need someone to come down the centre line in a hat with harness rather than a top hat to make a difference.

A number of the Canadian Eventing team are coming over to Badminton this year, wonder what they'll be wearing for their dressage...


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## only_me (4 February 2011)

If anyone wishes to lend me their 2012 horse, and transplant their abilities, I will happily come down centre line in a tweed and hat


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## MrsMozart (4 February 2011)

only_me said:



			If anyone wishes to lend me their 2012 horse, and transplant their abilities, I will happily come down centre line in a tweed and hat  

Click to expand...

I'll join you m'duck 


Maybe it's the thing - those who have those skills, etc., don't have the, um, thinking behind wearing a crash hat  

Ah well.

As I've said numerous times, been there, done that. If I do go the dressage route, it will be a crash hat all the way 

And the idea about a protective top hat - brilliant


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## dozzie (4 February 2011)

They should just make it compulsory to wear a crash hat in all competitions. The FEI should be pressurised to make it compulsory too. 

If everyone has to wear the same then fashion is irrelevant. 

IMO it is no different to when safety belts were made compulsory. People moaned but got on with it and now it is automatic to put on the seat belt. I bet the same moans were around when motorcycle helmets became compulsory.


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## FrodoBeutlin (4 February 2011)

No teapot they did not (even though Kirsten did ride in the main arena with her helmet on in front of the judges, as there was a 10-minute break just before her test and she was allowed to go in there to complete her warm up). However, trust me, for an European show to see such a high-profile rider like Patrik wearing a helmet was still a HUGE shock!


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## jumptoit (4 February 2011)

only_me said:



			But you could be sensible & try to manage the risks.
		
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This is it for me, it's about minimising the risks without compromising your enjoyment of the sport.

Personally I will always wear my hat and that's my choice though I do think my Mum would have sold all my ponies within about 7 minutes if she saw me riding without one!


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## Booboos (4 February 2011)

I also believe in free choice, but we have to recognise that many of the free choices people make will be quite stupid and it's the responsibility of their friends, families and role models to try to get them to see that so they can change their choices.

Meanwhile the choice to compete under the auspices of an equestrian federation is also a free choice which people are free to reject. If the federation takes a responsible attitude towards what happens under its roof then that's part and parcel of the choice to participate.


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## ArcticFox (5 February 2011)

ok so I measured my HS1 this morning round the outside which comes to 74cm.  sadly hats are only made up to 65cms.  I was going to see if you could get a top hat to fit over your normal riding hat (like a hat silk)!  

Sadly it won't work!  come on hat companies invent one!


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## alwaysbroke (5 February 2011)

I spoke to an ex Intensive Care Consultant this week, was actually amazed that he thought that riding was good for you (think its the first hospital doc who has ever said this to me) BUT only if you wear a safety hat to minimize the risks and body protector when necessary.

Having worked on a Neuro unit, a Neuro ITU (the devastation caused to the patient and their families by head injuries is heartbreaking)  and seeing Oli Townends hat after his fall in Kentucky not wearing a crash hat makes no sense to me at all.


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## little_flea (5 February 2011)

I just judge people who don't wear hats - they are clearly less intelligent than the ones that do so if they have an accident - well - obviously the stupid gene will make itself extinct. It's just natural selection. ;-)

(of course I'm partly joking - though not entirely - I do write the hatless brigade off as a bit thick. I'm sure this doesn't affect their lives greatly though)

I think it looks weird to not wear a hat and I think the new hats look great for dressage - so much more attractive than a silly top hat. No wonder the general perception of equestrianism is what it is...


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## Allover (5 February 2011)

dominobrown said:



			Yes well riding is high risk sport, maybe body protectors should be compulsary. Maybe children shouldn't ride then. Maybe horses shouldn't hack on the roads. Maybe xc should be banned. Maybe cars should be limited to 60mph. Maybe moterbikes should be banned.

Life is high risk, thats what makes it what it is. I agree with wearing a hat but you can't force people to be wrapped up in cotton wool whether you agree with it or not. And even with all this protection, seatbelts, laws people still get killed.
You can't make a law for every hazard. 
People should (and must) be able to assess risks for themselves and think for themselves.
		
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I have not read the whole link so sorry if i am repeating 

I think the problem with the "elite" riders not wearing hats encourages the younger generation to follow suit. I was working for a sj and i always used to wear my hat (even walking the horses in the warm up) untill i got to a really big show with all the big names there, i felt a tit riding in my hat, i took it off the next day and felt even more of a tit for doing that, i would rather be a tit without brain damage!!!


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## MissSBird (5 February 2011)

Unfortunatly I don't think it would be possible to design a protective top hat.

Think about the shape of your riding hat. If fitted properly it should shape down and protect the entirety of the back of your head. A top hat doesn't cover the same area, thus couldn't really be made to offer the same level of protection. Also because it is tall, the protective powers at the top of the head would probably be minimal. I really can't see how it would work. But kudos to anyone who manages it!

As it stands I've always been for free choice. I don't believe that we should be forced to wear protective gear for anything. I have a brain and can use it.

I wear a hat all the time at home btw, and in competition. I think my Fiona's hat looks very elegant.

As it stands I've never come across the opportunity to wear a top hat in competition so I haven't ever actually thought about whether I would or not. I think it'd be an on the day decision for me.


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## FrodoBeutlin (5 February 2011)

Incidentally, I was reading the Italian rulebook yesterday and it clearly states on there that a helmet is prohibited in competitions at Advanced Medium and above -- if you wear a tailcoat (compulsory from Adv Med onwards in Italy), then a top hat must be worn. You cannot wear a tailcoat and a helmet in a competition arena. Doesn't this contravene FEI rules and, can a national federation's rules overcome FEI rules?


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## TGM (5 February 2011)

MissSBird said:



			As it stands I've always been for free choice. I don't believe that we should be forced to wear protective gear for anything. .
		
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So are you saying that it wrong for BE, for example, to insist riders wear protective helmets whilst jumping?


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## kerilli (5 February 2011)

FrodoBeutlin said:



			Incidentally, I was reading the Italian rulebook yesterday and it clearly states on there that a helmet is prohibited in competitions at Advanced Medium and above -- if you wear a tailcoat (compulsory from Adv Med onwards in Italy), then a top hat must be worn. You cannot wear a tailcoat and a helmet in a competition arena. Doesn't this contravene FEI rules and, can a national federation's rules overcome FEI rules?
		
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i'm pretty sure that FEI rules supercede National rules if it's an FEI competition. e.g. it would have been possible for Theodore O'Connor to have competed at Badminton or Burghley even though he's below the B.E. height limit for adult eventing. so, he wouldn't have been able to do a National competition, but he could do an FEI competition.
i could be wrong on that though...

the Italian rule is very silly imho.


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## FrodoBeutlin (5 February 2011)

Yes that must be true, I think I have read something similar. I don't think I will be competing under FEI rules for a while, yet  so I guess the top hat will be compulsory for me.

There are loads of silly rules in Italy, Kerilli -- the compulsory tailcoat at Adv Med level is one (only country in Europe, as far as I know...surely it's just there to give more money to manufacturers?!). Obligatory metal spurs in all classes, on horses of any age, is another one!
Both very hard to justify too


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## kerilli (5 February 2011)

oh, the obligatory spurs thing drives me nuts too. a friend had an electric horse at 4* level, the last horse in the world to need spurs, but had to wear them. i don't think 'blind' spurs are allowed (the ones with nothing at the back at all, just a 1/2 loop of metal), which they should be. and if your horse doesn't need spurs, if you can give an accurate enough aid without them, all well and good, surely?!
ALL classes? even a Preliminary or whatever they call their lowest level? Sheesh.


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## FrodoBeutlin (5 February 2011)

Well exactly! Yes at all levels. Including on 4 year olds in YH classes!!

I would understand it if the rule was actually the opposite (i.e. no spurs allowed in Prelim/Novice level tests), as surely *anybody* should be able to ride any horse in a test containing only walk, trot and canter and basic lateral work without spurs... But why make them compulsory? What is the reason behind it?!


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## kerilli (5 February 2011)

to show up those who have an unstable, uncontrolled lower leg, because they'll inadvertently poke their horse and might be sent into orbit?  
makes it more interesting, maybe...


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## Ginn (5 February 2011)

Just to throw something else into the debate (and for the record while 95% of the time I do ride with a hat I'm not in total agreement with taking away a freedom of choice not to wear one)....

People often chose to wear a top hat/beagler for vanity reasons - which I would to some degree include myself with but from the opposite side of things - I would be absolutely mortified if I had to have my lovely thick, long hair shaved off because I'd damaged my skull sufficiently to warrant surgery/stitches and more-so if it left me with scarring meaning it would leave bald patches.

Just another thought on the matter!


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## FrodoBeutlin (5 February 2011)

kerilli said:



			to show up those who have an unstable, uncontrolled lower leg, because they'll inadvertently poke their horse and might be sent into orbit?  
makes it more interesting, maybe...
		
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Actually this is a very good point and might well be the reason. Even so, a judge should still be able to recognise an unstable, uncontrolled lower leg without having to rely on the presence of spurs!


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## CastleMouse (5 February 2011)

Unfortunately I think it will take quite some time before top hats become banned by the FEI, if ever. It is 'traditional', and some riders may think that's one of the reasons that they shouldn't banned. 

Something needs to be done at a national level before it will reach the FEI, and that may be slow to happen with BD and similar organisations globally.


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## CastleMouse (5 February 2011)

Does anyone know how many riders have had injuries at affiliated dressage shows OR FEI shows, which could have been prevented by wearing a correct riding hat? 

I have honestly heard of no incidents in the past couple of years, over here anyway. You cannot force someone to wear a proper hat on their own property, you can only recommend and advise, although the bulk of accidents would happen at home for dressage riders. 

Even over here, if you are over 16/17 you don't have to wear a riding hat if you're on public roads?!? How ridiculous is that?


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## jumptoit (5 February 2011)

Kerilli - You can use Dummy spurs for BE classes now where spurs are compulsory but I'm not sure about FEI .


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## imr (5 February 2011)

I feel really vulnerable with my top hat on. Have taken to warming up in the normal one and then just wearing the top hat for the test, I feel naked and weird with no hat on. 

Thing is you are more likely to be injured riding at home and I am amazed how many people ride without a hat. I just reckon Courtney KD rode a lot better than me so why risk it. had a cracking fall off my dr horse in the arena at home a few years ago - he bucked me off and I halflanded on the fence, with my elbow and head taking the hit. The impact cracked my hat open (had to buy a new one) and I had concussion for 2 days. Pretty glad I was wearing a hat.


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## kerilli (6 February 2011)

thanks, jumptoit, i didn't know they'd changed the rule. good!
imr, fairly sure you'd be in a far worse way if you hadn't been wearing a good hat. cracked hat open... jeeez. i've heard of that but not seen it.
i found pics of American riders competing in tails + helmet.
http://www.dressage-news.com/?p=9780
they look pretty good to me...


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## imr (6 February 2011)

it was quite impressive kerilli - I gave it a squeeze and heard it crunch ominously and move rather a lot - figured it was knackered but cut the velvet off to take a look ... it had a big vertical crack about 15 cms long on one side - totally cracked right through the shell. It was the latest standard as well. Very very glad it wasnt my head!!


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## zefragile (6 February 2011)

Helmet and tails looks just fine, IMO


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## cloudandmatrix (6 February 2011)

what i also dont understand- is why dressage riders go to such great lengths to protect their horses legs- but wont protect their own head?


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## caterpillar (6 February 2011)

cloudandmatrix said:



			what i also dont understand- is why dressage riders go to such great lengths to protect their horses legs- but wont protect their own head?
		
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Hehe!


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## MagicMelon (6 February 2011)

Saratoga said:



			Be interesting to find out if all those who fully support wearing a hat at all times also wear a hard hat with tails, and a fully harnessed hat instead of a beagler. If safety it paramount, top hats and beaglers should also be banned.
		
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Totally agree with this.  Top hats are utterly ridiculous IMO, and beaglers look horrid - all thin and flimsy.  I always wear my hat when riding, and on the two occasions I did CIC* level, I was one of only very few who wore a normal harnessed hat and show jacket (no top hat and tails).


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## caterpillar (6 February 2011)

I wonder what people think about people hunting in beaglers/pateys?

Personally hard hat with harness for me, everytime!


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## cloudandmatrix (6 February 2011)

i think you are crazy to hunt in a beagler.
i would actually be really interested to hear from a non hat wearer why they choose not to wear one?


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## MrsMozart (6 February 2011)

kerilli said:



			thanks, jumptoit, i didn't know they'd changed the rule. good!
imr, fairly sure you'd be in a far worse way if you hadn't been wearing a good hat. cracked hat open... jeeez. i've heard of that but not seen it.
i found pics of American riders competing in tails + helmet.
http://www.dressage-news.com/?p=9780
they look pretty good to me...
		
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They do look good . Even without my head/hat beliefs, I would think they look good, especially Shannon Peters


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## Prince33Sp4rkle (6 February 2011)

"i would actually be really interested to hear from a non hat wearer why they choose not to wear one? "

there are a fair few threads on this topic, by now i doubt many bother to post as theres no point,neither side will ever change their mind. the pro hat will continue to throw insults and the hatless will continue to think some of you are just a little bit up your own arse, and no one will change their habits.

personally, for the record, from age 14/15ish i rode horses for a pro SJ'er and kept my horse on his yard in the school holidays, and i jumped 3yo's to GP horses without a hat.im now 27 and over ten years of a hat NOT being the norm is well and truly ingrained. that said i do a mental risk assessment each time i get on, i have one horse i ride for a client that has been known to flip over, so hat goes on.and one that flings its head right back when excited, so hat goes on in order to prevent any neck/nose collisions. and when i jump now, or hack i do put one on as my boy is not sensible to hack, and very green jumping,and im out of practice jumping now.

at home, im riding a 14yo horse that has NEVER bucked/reared/spun in his 10years with us, is totally 100% balanced (schooled to GP) and my surface is maintained to obsessive levels of flatness, or im riding the worlds most idle TB that doesnt know how to spook and is so safe in the school id put my granny on him.seriously maybe iv got freak horses that just dont randomly go bananas, but at home,mine are as predictable as these hat threads!!!!!

i use my 1 braincell (!)-i dont ride round the yard without a hat, or on concrete, or on a crap surface i dont know. i guess i view hats how most people view BP-an extra for days when you're doing something *different*.this wont be popular-im a half decent rider, iv got a ton of experience on horses no one else wants to get on, im fairly hard to shift.so on my horses, at home, im not going to go out the side door for no particular reason. ditto on clients horses that i know, at home, unless its something thats going to seriously flip its lid, im not going to fall off *just because*.not everyone has that balance,if you think you might come off then please do put a hat on.

i am far safer doing flatwork on a surface hatless than anyone eventing, hunting or team chasing.do we ban those sports?ban galloping?ban jumping?where does it end?

i would be interested to know if the % of hatless related deaths is higher in countries such as germany or holland where hatless is more normal, and no one kicks up a stink.

if you're under 16, or on the roads i 100% agree it should be law to wear a hat.beyond that im totally and utterly pro freedom of choice.

thats the long and short of it. so now you can all call me names, and i can sigh and zone out again.


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## MrsMozart (6 February 2011)

How pleasant, to be referred to as 'up one's own ar$e' for wanting people to be as safe as they can be in this sport that we love.

I don't give a flying fig if you wear a hat or not. I won't have to mop you up.


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## mulbry (6 February 2011)

Tbh I'm of the opinion each to their own. I always wear a hat & I do think it should be compulsory on the roads/at comps but if someone wants to ride hatless at home *shrug* that's their choice, their risk.

But when I read comments like this:



Prince33Sp4rkle said:



			"thats the long and short of it. so now you can all call me names, and i can sigh and zone out again.
		
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it just makes me think, to borrow a phrase, that the hatless lot are "just a little bit up their own arses" themselves


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## Prince33Sp4rkle (6 February 2011)

you are entitled to your view, i am entitled to mine, i do not try and force mine upon other people and its those that bully,nag, and thus try and force theirs upon me, that i find to be up their own arse. note that i said some, not all of you (as in pro hat people).some of my very good friends always wear a hat, but they dont try and force it upon me, constatly chide me, or in any way try and impose their views upon me, thus its not an issue between us.


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## Prince33Sp4rkle (6 February 2011)

"it just makes me think, to borrow a phrase, that the hatless lot are "just a little bit up their own arses"  


why, because i wont be preached at by strangers on an internet forum?
my last 3 pic threads on here have been hijacked by people going on about hats (or lack of)......if i started replying to every thread "why are you wearing a hat" there would be uproar, but apparently its ok when boot is on other foot.that i find very head up arse TBH, if i want advise ill ask for it, and i do,and i take that advise, but i have never asked for it about hats, and thus dont want the comments.


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## Louise_88 (6 February 2011)

Completly agree Prince33Sp4rkle.


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## mulbry (6 February 2011)

So don't read the threads about it FFS! If your own threads get hijacked I imagine that does get annoying but when a thread is clearly about the issue from a pro-hat POV why bother getting involved? As I said originally, I'm of the opinion to each their own and I actually agree with free choice other than on roads/comps but your "so now you can all call me names, and i can sigh and zone out again" comment was unnecessarily snarky and doesn't really lend much to the no-hat POV other than an 8 year old mentality of 'because I said so, so there. ner'. You'd have an easier time of being heard/taken seriously if you lost the attitude.


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## MrsMozart (6 February 2011)

PS - you know that I come from this from a slightly different angle to most, as in a 'been there, tried the brain damage angle'. Mine was a nothing fall, a silly fall, the horse did nothing wrong, my foot slipped, a slight change in direction that I have sat a thousand times, but it just went wrong at just the wrong moment.

You talk about chiding, etc., but if you were riding with one of your friends - them hatted or otherwise - with you hatless and gawd forbid you came off and bashed your head, why/how is your friend to cope?

I don't ask this to argue, I ask this because Friend, who thankfully is a neurology nurse, was with me and she knew what to do. I had someone who was experienced with brain trauma. If I hadn't had a hat on, it would all have been academic.

So, thinking this further through, if you are happy to wear a hat in certain situations, why aren't you happy to wear a proper crash hat at a dressage competition? It's not the controlled environment that you are happy hatless and there are many other variables, which could cause a spook/slip/fall.

I've done a lot of so called dangerous sports and ridden motorbikes and dirt bikes, etc. etc., and in all of them, when one competes, one has to have a certain degree of protection, all of which start with the head being protected.


As I said. I don't care one fig if you personally wear a hat or not: I have a completely different view on the matter to you; one which I hope you never get to share with me, because if it's one of the times you're not wearing a hat, you'll be stuffed. 

This reminds me of my youngest daughter fighting her way into the ambulance. I don't know if you have children, but I'm sure you've had the discussion with your family and close friends and they're all happy with your decision.

Sorry if this doesn't flow so well. I find that when I get tired these days, the words are harder to match up.

As I said, not looking for an argument, just wondering why someone would choose not to make themselves as safe as is possible.


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## Lolo (6 February 2011)

I have never ever watched someone famous ride and thought "OMG, if I don't wear a hat I will totes be as good as them". Never. Now, I'm not sure if my sister and I are anomalies in the young people category but I was bought up to use the brains I've been given and make my own decisions. My decision is to put on a hat every time I get on a horse because I am not a secure rider- I can stick nasty stops and sill behaviour, but when my horse side-stepped slightly I plopped right off. However, I will never tell anyone to wear a hat or preach at them. Their head, their choice. I might (if it's someone I know) think "Oh blimey... that's begging for an accident" but I'd never say it.

I find this sort of thread a difficult read really- people who have made up their minds have made up their minds. What they do at home is entirely up to them.


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## gnubee (7 February 2011)

Are dressage and rodeo regulated by some kind of overarching authority in the US, or are they completely separate? Seems weird to me that one country can have a sport with minimal falling off risk (such as dressage) with compulsory hats, but no mention of them for sports where falling off is pretty much inevitable (bronc/bull riding). 

I'm quite in favour of the compulsory protective hats in competition, but the juxtaposition of the two sports in the country seems insane.


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## sprite1978 (7 February 2011)

Prince33Sp4rkle said:



			"i would actually be really interested to hear from a non hat wearer why they choose not to wear one? "

there are a fair few threads on this topic, by now i doubt many bother to post as theres no point,neither side will ever change their mind. the pro hat will continue to throw insults and the hatless will continue to think some of you are just a little bit up your own arse, and no one will change their habits.

personally, for the record, from age 14/15ish i rode horses for a pro SJ'er and kept my horse on his yard in the school holidays, and i jumped 3yo's to GP horses without a hat.im now 27 and over ten years of a hat NOT being the norm is well and truly ingrained. that said i do a mental risk assessment each time i get on, i have one horse i ride for a client that has been known to flip over, so hat goes on.and one that flings its head right back when excited, so hat goes on in order to prevent any neck/nose collisions. and when i jump now, or hack i do put one on as my boy is not sensible to hack, and very green jumping,and im out of practice jumping now.

at home, im riding a 14yo horse that has NEVER bucked/reared/spun in his 10years with us, is totally 100% balanced (schooled to GP) and my surface is maintained to obsessive levels of flatness, or im riding the worlds most idle TB that doesnt know how to spook and is so safe in the school id put my granny on him.seriously maybe iv got freak horses that just dont randomly go bananas, but at home,mine are as predictable as these hat threads!!!!!

i use my 1 braincell (!)-i dont ride round the yard without a hat, or on concrete, or on a crap surface i dont know. i guess i view hats how most people view BP-an extra for days when you're doing something *different*.this wont be popular-im a half decent rider, iv got a ton of experience on horses no one else wants to get on, im fairly hard to shift.so on my horses, at home, im not going to go out the side door for no particular reason. ditto on clients horses that i know, at home, unless its something thats going to seriously flip its lid, im not going to fall off *just because*.not everyone has that balance,if you think you might come off then please do put a hat on.

i am far safer doing flatwork on a surface hatless than anyone eventing, hunting or team chasing.do we ban those sports?ban galloping?ban jumping?where does it end?

i would be interested to know if the % of hatless related deaths is higher in countries such as germany or holland where hatless is more normal, and no one kicks up a stink.

if you're under 16, or on the roads i 100% agree it should be law to wear a hat.beyond that im totally and utterly pro freedom of choice.

thats the long and short of it. so now you can all call me names, and i can sigh and zone out again.
		
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I am all for self preservation, and leave others to their own choice, but Prince33Sp4rkle - I would be intersted to know the reasons WHY you dont wear a hat.


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## Paladine (7 February 2011)

gnubee said:



			Are dressage and rodeo regulated by some kind of overarching authority in the US, or are they completely separate? Seems weird to me that one country can have a sport with minimal falling off risk (such as dressage) with compulsory hats, but no mention of them for sports where falling off is pretty much inevitable (bronc/bull riding). 

I'm quite in favour of the compulsory protective hats in competition, but the juxtaposition of the two sports in the country seems insane.
		
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Completely separate.


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## chels (7 February 2011)

I usually wear a helmet, and my grey is the only horse I would ever ride without. It's a yard rule that we wear them, so I always wear it anyway =/
I'm from NZ, this was published recently
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/other-sports/4626205/Top-rider-keeps-a-lid-on-it
http://www.horsetalk.co.nz/news/2011/02/024.shtml


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## Prince33Sp4rkle (7 February 2011)

"So don't read the threads about it FFS"

erm somebody asked for the inut of a hatless person, thus my replying.if they hadnt asked i wouldnt have.is that ok with you?!

i dont wear a hat:

* because its not the norm, its habit NOT to.

* the situations in which i dont wear a hat, are ones where im not going to come off.

people who work in neuro units-please can you tell me how many head/horse related accidents are down to hatless dressage riders, and how many are down to hacking out,jumping, kids pratting around with ponies on concrete yards, or people actually being kicked in the head. would be interested to know..........


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## quirky (7 February 2011)

Prince33Sp4rkle said:



			* the situations in which i dont wear a hat, are ones where im not going to come off.
		
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You do yourself a disservice with this argument PS.

It comes across as extremely arrogant and infers that anybody who wears a hat is about to fall off at either moment.
Surely, that isn't the case .

I don't think you are arrogant per se, just in this case .

I dearly hope that in the statistically very unlikely case that a horse has a heart attack beneath you that you manage to land not underneath the horse and with your bonce intact. Ooh, now there's a story I could retell .... it wasn't pretty .

In your previous pictures, I think you look infinitely better in your hat .... for me, people not wearing a hat just doesn't look right .


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## mon (7 February 2011)

on own land your choice like seat belts but on roads would insurance use it as a cop out?
I wouldnt get on horse without hat and proper boots but not very often do i bother with BP although did with young horse till recently, but do have strap on saddle and hang on to that if she is being spooky, made OH get hat fitted and boots as we have started hacking out together and he feels mush safer with proper hat & boots.


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## Llanali (7 February 2011)

quirky said:



			In your previous pictures, I think you look infinitely better in your hat .... for me, people not wearing a hat just doesn't look right .
		
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And I think you do yourself a disservice with this. I wear a hat, btu I have ridden without, and it is up to each individual in my mind. I do believe they should be compulsory for comeptition, because it is in the public eye, adn there will always be impressionable individuals viewing. Other than that- personal choice. You make your decisions, adn if you adn you family/freidns can live with them as well, then fine. 

BUT- the above argument- if PS, or me, or any other hatless rider said 'Wearing a hat doesn't 'look right' ' They would be shot down in flames- but for several on this and other threads- it's not just you I accept- to say hatless 'looks' wrong is surely the same line of argument........and there I was thinking that this argument/debate was supposed to be superior to vanity!


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## ArcticFox (7 February 2011)

Hi Princess Sparkle.  you know my view on hatless due to my sisters accident, I have given my opinion  and I also said I wouldn't mention it again as it will not get you to change your mind so I won't. 

I am firm believer of wearing a hat but this topic has been discussed to death and the threads do end up becoming a slanging match.  

all i would say is that it is I would not let anyone ride my horses or ride on my land with out wearing a hat, I personally wear a hat for anything that involves dealing with a youngster, and anytime I am in a saddle.  I would  probably say something to someone if I saw them without a hat, but if it was on their own land then its not my place to enforce it. 

I don't think anyone will change their mind, and for the hatless I think the topic has gone so far now, most won't wear it out of principle!


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## Kat (7 February 2011)

kerilli said:



			mother made me wear one of those hideous JOFA things!
		
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OMG so did mine, I've never seen anyone other than me and my sister in one!!! So Glad I wasn't the only person looking like an upside down weeble! 

I was so relieved when they updated the safety standards and the JOFA was no longer up to standard, good excuse to go and buy a "normal" skull cap.


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## Prince33Sp4rkle (7 February 2011)

i dont know if you are deliberately twisting, or just misunderstanding what i said...........i dont wear a hat when im damn sure IM not going to fall off, i havent said that generic people dont wear a hat if not likely to come, so in no way have i implied that anyone wearing a hat is a lesser rider or likely to come off.sorry but please dont put words in my mouth, because its not fair, and it distorts the debate.

am still waiting to hear more on this..."people who work in neuro units-please can you tell me how many head/horse related accidents are down to hatless dressage riders, and how many are down to hacking out,jumping, kids pratting around with ponies on concrete yards, or people actually being kicked in the head. would be interested to know.......... "


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## FrodoBeutlin (7 February 2011)

People *can* change their mind, I did.

I grew up in a country where nobody ever wore (wears!) hats, not even when jumping, or hacking out on roads, or riding really dangerous horses. 

Although I never wore a hat when Rauti was 4, I did start wearing one when Frodo was backed, years later. Purely because I need my brain for my job. Even so I was always the only hat-wearing person in the arena! I even remember that the young man who backed Frodo never wore a helmet, not even for the very first time he sat on him, which is something which will shock a lot of people in the UK. But on the continent there is just a different culture. It is so rare to see people wearing helmets and it really feels stupid to be the only one with one! 

Then Courtney, one of my all-time favourite riders and people, had her accident. She was NOT bucked off or reared with or anything like that, her horse simply tripped and fell, and it happened to happen on cement, and she happened to hit her head. If she had been bucked off I might have reacted differently as I am 100% confident that my own horse would never, ever buck anybody off (he absolutely does not buck). But the fact that she is now in the condition she is, for an accident which happened completely irrespective of her riding abilities, or of the horse's character, really made me think. 

I know that it is extremely unlikely that I will fall off Rauti but I also know that it *is* possible that he trips and falls, or, God forbid, suffers a heart attack, or something like that completely out of OUR (mine and his) control. Therefore, since Courtney's accident, I have never ridden hatless, not even for 10 minutes' walk.

It does feel strange, though -- just because I am always the only one with a helmet on!!

However, things are changing. When we did the photoshoot for St Georg last year we all had to wear a helmet, the magazine itself demanded helmets on all riders! At shows, even at the Bundeschampionat, you do see riders in young horse classes (3 and 4 yo) with helmets on rather than top hats. Even at my yard, youngsters prone to bucking / being very lively who were previously ridden bare-headed are now ridden by some with a hat on!

And at big internationals there will be some top riders riding certain horses with a helmet on -- such as Patrik Kittel at the Munster CDI, in the past I have also seen Helen Langehanenberg and Victoria Max Theurer (note, all these riders were riding their top GP horses). So things are definitely changing.


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## FrodoBeutlin (7 February 2011)

Prince33Sp4rkle said:



			am still waiting to hear more on this..."people who work in neuro units-please can you tell me how many head/horse related accidents are down to hatless dressage riders, and how many are down to hacking out,jumping, kids pratting around with ponies on concrete yards, or people actually being kicked in the head. would be interested to know.......... "
		
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I don't know the answer, but for what it's worth I very much doubt that more dressage riders die in Italy or Germany (where nobody wears helmets) than in the UK (where more helmets are worn). 

This is only anecdotal and statistically insignificant, but when I had my car crash in Holland the lovely Dutch man in the ambulance kept saying that he hates horse riding because of all the terrible accidents he sees at work. Of the long list he gave us (horrific accidents which destroyed young girls' faces, stuff like that) none was related to having or not having a helmet. The majority seemed to involve people being kicked in the face or head, from the ground.


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## Prince33Sp4rkle (7 February 2011)

"Then Courtney, one of my all-time favourite riders and people, had her accident. She was NOT bucked off or reared with or anything like that, her horse simply tripped and fell, and it happened to happen on cement, and she happened to hit her head."

but theres the rub, and im in no way at all saying she is to blame,it was a hideous unfortunate accident-why was she riding (a presumably shod horse)on slippy concrete, without a hat? i dont think you can compare that to the possibility of falling off on a surface and doing the same injury?iv already said i dont ride to and from the arena, on the yard (gravel) or the concrete areas, so for my particular case, iv covered that eventually and taken a step to eradicate the risk,but still people use it as an example.i think a lot of examples are twisted to suit for this particular argument......the horse that drops dead of a heart attack out hunting, the rider that falls off jumping and hits the fence,the horse that trips over on the road etc, not comparable to flatwork on a surface.

absolutely NO disrepect for CKD.


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## TGM (7 February 2011)

FB, I think your post illustrates very well why the hat debate threads will run and run on here.  As you have shown, some people DO change their minds on the hat issue, and that may mean that they are saved serious injury or death.  However, people won't change their minds because of insult-throwing or rudeness about the hatless, but rather through reading sensible and well-reasoned posts like yours above.


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## FrodoBeutlin (7 February 2011)

Well PS I guess she never wore a hat full stop. Also I have no idea what the set-up of her yard was, but all the yards I've been to have a lot of concrete, I would assume most riders would get on on concrete or have to walk on concrete in order to get to the arena? That's the case at all of the yards I've been to! You get on in the stable block and have to walk on concrete / asphalt / pretty cobbles / whatever in order to reach the outdoor arena. From what I remember from the accident she was indeed about to enter the outdoor arena, it's not like she was hacking out or anything like that.


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## pip6 (7 February 2011)

Will admit from the start I have a firm opinion on this, not least of which is from being a professional driver for years in a horsey part of the country.

What people do on private property is between them & their insurers (would your life insurance cover you if you aren't deemed to be taking reasonable precautions against getting injured? Don't know the answer but think it is a question worth asking). If hunters are on private land then their headgear is their choice. On public areas however, they should confirm to the point I make below. 

Anyone (including adults) on public highway should wear a helmet of a recognised minimum standard. If you can afford a horse, you can find the price of a helmet. My endurance helmet meets very high safety standards & costs £35. Not even the cost of a pair of shoes for the horse. This is where you have to think beyond yourself to any other parties who may be innocently involved if your trusted steed suddenly gets a horse fly bite on a sensitive spot ( jumps, potentially into traffic), been there, seen it. It's not just about you & your choice. A driver could have to live with killing you and /or your horse through no fault of their own. It is enforable, it works pretty well with motorbikes.

All FEI disciplines (including reining) should wear protective hats. Any horse can react or slip. The worse reasons in the world against this are 1)it's not tradition 2)it doesn't look as nice. Move on, cerate new traditions & put the ego on hold. Riding in all disciplines is a risk sport, no horse is a machine. It is a predictable risk that can be reduced, so why such anger? Don't hate hat supporters, they are only thinking of you. The point of experiences is to learn from them. Some of these posters have been there done it & trying to save you the pain & distress.

Kids do look up to top riders. If they see them wearing hats as the norm, then they will find it more acceptable. I work a lot with kids. They do look at successful performers in their chosen sport & use them as role models.


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## MrsMozart (7 February 2011)

PS, out of interest (and no name calling, mud slinging from this side at all), I appreciate that you only ride hatless when doing dressage on a suface and on a horse you trust not to bronc/trip, etc., but if you had a choice, top hat or crash hat in a competition, which would you go for?

This is bearing in mind that the surface is unlikely to be as good as the one you ride on at home (more horses on it, etc.). Plus all the other variables at a competition venue.

I have come to the conclusion that I really don't care if someone else rides hatless anywhere. Their choice. So long as I don't have to deal with any aftermath, then it's nothing to do with me.

I will qualify the above statement however, at competitions there are youngsters (humans) who watch and who copy their idols. To not wear a crash hat in that situation is ridiculous; it's alright if you've made your peace with your nearest and dearest on the subject, but influencing another, albeit indirectly, to go hatless is wrong.


As I've said all along, and I realise I'm a bore on the subject, but bear with me. I've been in the 'if I hadn't been wearing a hat I'd be dead or a complete vegetable' situation. It's not nice. It affects everyone and everything around one. Work. Life. Relatioships. Riding. Driving. Everything.


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## pip6 (7 February 2011)

For what it's worth, chatting to an orthopaedic consultant who was trying to persuade me to stop riding (didn't work), he did say from a study (no I don't know the names or the title) into riding accident statistics, that people who rode most days were likely to end up in hospital at least twice in their lifetime from riding accidents. One long bone accident & one head injury. Done the former, hope my hat helps avoid the letter.


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## caterpillar (7 February 2011)

Princesssparkle - as you can obviously see the future as you "know" you are not going to fall off maybe you could tell me what numbers are going to come up on the lottery next weekend?

Thanks very much


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## imr (7 February 2011)

Prince33Sp4rkle said:



			"Then Courtney, one of my all-time favourite riders and people, had her accident. She was NOT bucked off or reared with or anything like that, her horse simply tripped and fell, and it happened to happen on cement, and she happened to hit her head."

but theres the rub, and im in no way at all saying she is to blame,it was a hideous unfortunate accident-why was she riding (a presumably shod horse)on slippy concrete, without a hat? i dont think you can compare that to the possibility of falling off on a surface and doing the same injury?iv already said i dont ride to and from the arena, on the yard (gravel) or the concrete areas, so for my particular case, iv covered that eventually and taken a step to eradicate the risk,but still people use it as an example.i think a lot of examples are twisted to suit for this particular argument......the horse that drops dead of a heart attack out hunting, the rider that falls off jumping and hits the fence,the horse that trips over on the road etc, not comparable to flatwork on a surface.

absolutely NO disrepect for CKD.
		
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PS - its your choice and I do understand why you dont wear a hat - they arent very comfortable and they are hot. I am so used to mine that I actually am more comfortable with, but I accept that's just because it is what I am used to. I also get that you dont do it on the road etc and that there are millions of other ways to injure oneself riding. My worst horse accident was a kick in the mouth rather than a fall. That said your last point doesnt really hold water for me and here is why.... Your school, from the pix, has a wooden fence, right? We had one just the same and falling off schooling in the school and hitting that on the way down is what cracked my hat open and gave me concussion for 2 days. Without my hat I would have been in hospital for a while... 

Like you I ride dressage, I dont jump and I hardly ever fall off (must be about 5 years since I last hit the deck).


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## Kat (7 February 2011)

On the subject of whether you are likely to fall off or not, the last time I fell off I was sitting on a horse standing still on grass. I'm not quite sure what she did, but she slipped, her hind legs went from under her and she went down behind (grass stains on her hocks and bum) luckily she didn't land on me and she didn't catch me with a hoof as she tried to remain upright. Luckily I was wearing a hat as I gave myself a fair old headache, my hat fits tightly, as does the harness but the impact had forced it down low over my forehead and I had to take it off to right it. 

The mare I used to ride as a teenager developed what was thought to be epilepsy in later life and would collapse without warning. The first time this happened she was under saddle and just went down, again the rider was wearing a hat and escaped with relatively minor injuries (a broken ankle if I remember correctly), but that could happen to anyone. I also know of people whose horses have died of a heart attack suddenly under saddle and not during strenuous exercise. 

I think that goes to show that anyone, no matter how good a rider or horse can have a nasty fall. 

Personally I'm not one for taking every available precaution but I do think that wearing a hat is a sensible and reasonable safety step to take, and there is little or no GOOD reason not to wear one. Modern hats are comfortable, vented, look nice, have no effect on the way you ride and it is virtually unheard of for a skull cap to cause injury or worsen an injury.


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## charlie76 (7 February 2011)

I always love the hat/no hat debate... why does what some one else chooses to do get strangers so het up- if PS chooses not to wear a hat, why do people, who are strangers care..if she has an accident, it won't be you that has to look after her so why comment?

For the record I do wear a hat to ride, I do,however, wear a beagler for dressage. If I have an accident, at no point will I be asking all the people on the H&H forum to come and care for me, so no need to panic!


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## Prince33Sp4rkle (7 February 2011)

"PS, out of interest (and no name calling, mud slinging from this side at all), I appreciate that you only ride hatless when doing dressage on a suface and on a horse you trust not to bronc/trip, etc., but if you had a choice, top hat or crash hat in a competition, which would you go for?"

currently wear a GPA or a KEP, as prefer how it looks.
CS IS far less predictable at shows, so if i want to wear a top hat (which i did for one young horse show and the regionals last year) and he is feeling daft, i put my GPA on to warm up and IF he calms down, swap to top hat-i dont go courting an accident.
am hoping as he grows up i wont have to do that, and ill be spitting if by the time i get to GP im no longer allowed to wear my topper!

FB-i mount and dismount in the arena, no riding over concrete/though a barn for me.

i didnt say i could see in to the future.....just that i know my horses.


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## Saratoga (7 February 2011)

BUT....you are still open to a horse stumbling in the arena, and you coming off and hitting your head on the arena fencing, or a horse's foot....

...and with a top hat or beagler at a show, you get on in the lorry park and walk on concrete etc to get to the warm up...and again from the warm up to the competition arena. All areas where a tumble could happen easily.

Where and when you ride, and how much care or not you take, and whether you are likely to fall off or not, and whether your horse is sane or not etc etc etc are really not good arguments for or against wearing a hat. The truth of the matter is you can fall off and hit your head NO MATTER WHAT THE CIRCUMSTANCES...so it's a personal choice whether you wear a hat or not, not a cirumstantial decision.


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## Quadro (7 February 2011)

charlie76 said:



			I always love the hat/no hat debate... why does what some one else chooses to do get strangers so het up- if PS chooses not to wear a hat, why do people, who are strangers care..if she has an accident, it won't be you that has to look after her so why comment?

For the record I do wear a hat to ride, I do,however, wear a beagler for dressage. If I have an accident, at no point will I be asking all the people on the H&H forum to come and care for me, so no need to panic!
		
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I for one care as i my job do alot of paper work relating to my patients and deal with thier social workers etc and the costs of rehabiltation and care homes etc to the tax payer are huge. In general most kinds of brain injury have very slow recovery rates which will take place over many months. A thousand pounds is a conservative estaimate for the care costs involved.
This comes out of the working persons tax that they pay.
Q


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## georgiegirl (7 February 2011)

PS - in relation to how many 'hatless' cases we see in hospital? my answer would be not many because the vast majority of people DO wear hats and so only tend to come in with minor head injuries/concussion. 

others who have more serious head injuries (wether wearing hats or without) will spend weeks or months in more serious cases on a ventilator - many NEVER being able to return to their normal lives / functioning. As someone who deals with these patients on a daily basis I can vouch that it isnt somewhere you want to be. Being an ICU patient on life support does have other risks than the injury you were first admitted with.

and of course the worst scenario which happens a lot more than you or I would like to think (this is severe head injuries in general not just riding accidents) many dont make it to the doors of a&e in the first place - the ambulance goes stright round the back to the mortuary. food for thought?

Personally I hate the whole hatless look. it makes people look silly and im pretty certain half of them think they are something they are not.

On another note - i think the pics of the american riders wearing harnessed hats actually look more attractive thasn top hats. And I'm pretty sure given the new rules it wont be long before soem company makes a competition legal top hat.


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## Kat (7 February 2011)

charlie76 said:



			I always love the hat/no hat debate... why does what some one else chooses to do get strangers so het up- if PS chooses not to wear a hat, why do people, who are strangers care..if she has an accident, it won't be you that has to look after her so why comment?

For the record I do wear a hat to ride, I do,however, wear a beagler for dressage. If I have an accident, at no point will I be asking all the people on the H&H forum to come and care for me, so no need to panic!
		
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As the majority of us are tax payers I think you may just require care paid for by H&H forum members and the rest of the general public. Head injuries are hugely expensive to the NHS, social services, local council etc. The cost of care and treatment for life for someone suffering a catestrophic brain injury will run into millions. That is a cost that we as a nation with a huge defecit could well do without. 

We hear plenty of people on here ranting on about fat people or smokers costing the NHS money, well what about the serious injuries which could have been avoided with a simple bit of safety equipment? 

I've dealt with cases involving serious injury, and at Court on a case arising from someone thinking they were "too good" to need a simple piece of safety equipment (a roofer who fell through a roof having left his crawl ladders on the van) our Barrister remarkerd "it would have been cheaper all round if he'd died on the spot, and probably better for his family too". He was right, the guy's life was destroyed as was that of his family. Insurers paid out millions as did the NHS, Social Services, the DWP and the local Council.


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## charlie76 (7 February 2011)

And I imagine the majority of the H&H forums who don't wear hats also pay tax! Sorry, but I still think its amazing how a group of strangers can pounce on one person for doing something that is ulitmatly there choice of doing something they want to do in their own time. There maybe hundreds of people on here that do things just as dangerous (IE using the mobile phone whilst driving, not wearing a seatbelt, texting whilst driving) all of which as just as much of a risk of accident!


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## quirky (7 February 2011)

Just the thought of my Mother/OH/Whoever having to wipe my backside and change my tampons is reason enough to wear a hat .


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## kirstyhen (7 February 2011)

Aside from the cost to tax payers blah blah blah, is it not quite nice that people DO still care about others, even those they haven't met? Because at the end of the day, people preching about wearing hats isn't for their own benefit, it's because they don't want to see someone else get hurt.

Like I said before, I don't give a fig about you all anyway  Canter your horses on tarmac, without hats and doing a headstand for all I care


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## charlie76 (7 February 2011)

kirstyhen- exactly- let people get on with what they want to do- its their choice!


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## TGM (7 February 2011)

Going back to the Courtney King-Dye accident, does anyone actually know exactly what happened?  Was it definitely on concrete? The press reports seem to mostly say that she was trying a horse for a client, asked it to move its haunches over and that it got its legs tangled and fell, which makes it sound like it was in a school.  I must say I have seen a similar accident where a very placid, reliable horse was doing lateral work, got his legs tangled and fell, though fortunately the rider didn't hit his head and was wearing a hat anyway.


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## combat_claire (7 February 2011)

caterpillar said:



			I wonder what people think about people hunting in beaglers/pateys?

Personally hard hat with harness for me, everytime!
		
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This is my real bug bear. There are a hardcore bunch of followers with our pack who insist on wearing a Patey including all the masters, hunt staff and one secretary. They claim that a properly fitted Patey will stick to your head and offer protection. Gradually we are seeing more people wearing Charles Owen style velvet caps with PAS015 approval and a flesh leather chin strap. Some of the injuries I have seen on the hunting field where a horse has accidentally caught the jockey with a hoof after a fall convince me that safe riding head wear is the way forward.  

I have had two days hunting and worn a safe velvet cap (my best hat) and it was perfectly comfortable, not too hot or sweaty and kept my bonce safe.


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## combat_claire (7 February 2011)

Prince33Sp4rkle said:



			you are entitled to your view, i am entitled to mine, i do not try and force mine upon other people and its those that bully,nag, and thus try and force theirs upon me, that i find to be up their own arse. note that i said some, not all of you (as in pro hat people).some of my very good friends always wear a hat, but they dont try and force it upon me, constatly chide me, or in any way try and impose their views upon me, thus its not an issue between us.
		
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Just out of interest and I am not preaching at you. When you make your mental risk assessment do you take into account the fact that if a freak accident did happen what the impact of a serious injury or your death could have on those same friends and family that you mention in your posts?


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## stencilface (7 February 2011)

quirky said:



			Just the thought of my Mother/OH/Whoever having to wipe my backside and change my tampons is reason enough to wear a hat .
		
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Thats it for me 

I'd only ever thought of the wiping bum one though, not the second


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## TheoryX1 (7 February 2011)

Prince33Sp4rkle said:



			..........i dont wear a hat when im damn sure IM not going to fall off.......... "
		
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I actually enjoy your posts Princess Sparkle, all the matchy matchy and your gorgeous horses, especially Bruce.  However, you are an experienced rider, with a lot of good, useful knowledge, which you are kind enough to pass on to other forum members.  Nevertheless, one of the things I have learned in my life is that horses are not predictable.  I have fallen off when I thought I wouldnt.  For example, schooling my 18 year old mr sensible in the arena on Friday night he took great umbridge to a jump filler which had been sitting at the edge of the arena for days, and he had seen countless times before both in the day and under the floodlights.  He dived sideways, bronced and bucked several times, unseating me, and throwing me into the middle of the arena, while he bronced back to his stable, which is next to the arena.  I was unhurt and I had my hat on.  The only thing broken was one of my nail extensions, and that was fixed this morning!

He is completely reliable, bombproof, safe, sane, and apart from a bit of bolshiness on the ground, is the perfect first horse.  However, like all horses, he can be unpredictable.  I am not the rider you are, I dont bother training that much, dont have lessons any more and slop around like a sack of spuds out hacking.  I am a happy hacker and proud of that fact.  However, the one thing I do know, is that sometime or other I will fall off again, and I wont be able to predict when it will happen - I wish I did, so please can you tell me your secret.

(Apologies, not getting at you, just wanting to know why).


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## Booboos (7 February 2011)

For anyone interested in statistics, you may want to look up:

http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/40/7/619.abstract
The abstract does NOT say how many people were wearing hats, but it does say that a large proportion of non-lethal ridden injuries were to the head and the conclusion recommends promoting hat wearing which suggests that the injuries were probably caused to non-hat wearers. (I imagine the full article has full details but I don't have access).

http://journals.lww.com/jtrauma/abstract/1989/01000/lethal_horse_riding_injuries.5.aspx
This one concludes that lethal injuries are most often to the head and suggests the promotion of hat wearing (again implying that this was not the case at the time of the accident).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2408117
Again the majority of injuries is to the head, but no differentiation on the hat/no hat component.

http://store.wisconsinmedicalsociety.org/_WMS/publications/wmj/issues/wmj_v104n2/Jagodzinski.pdf
Head injury the most likely to lead to hospitalisation or death. The importance of wearing hats to prevent such injury is well established according this article. Earlier study of 2382 young people with head injuries showed that 3/4ths were not wearing a hat (more worrying 30% of injuries in children are the result of a kick to an unmounted child).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2146496/
Only one person out of 150 injured in this study was wearing a hat.


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## cloudandmatrix (7 February 2011)

Believe it or not PS- thank you for that point of view. 
It is interesting to see it from  your perspective. 
I'm not going to have a go at you, just simply state a few reason why I will never be caught on a horse without one. You can choose to "zone out" if you like, makes no odds to me, but I thought I would add another view to the discussion.
Horses ARE unpredictable. 
I was riding my mare in the school, with an instructor. She had a new girth cover on, but i had warmed her up in it, and had no reaction. Then suddenly, out of the blue, she took exception to it. This entailed her bolting off, bucking every stride. 
I am by no means an amazing rider. In fact, to this day, I dont know how I managed to stay on. What i DO know is that if I had come off, and been thrown into the fence without a hat, I might not still be here. 
I had no reason to think she would react like that, she had never done anything like that before, and i was in a school with an instructor.
Another time, my mare bolted. I know for certain that if I had come off at that speed i could be a vegetable without my hat.
Now, you may be thinking my mare is a lunatic, and your horse would never do anything like that, but the reason she acted like that out of the blue was due to pain from navicular.
No one could have spotted it- not until it was too late  as she showed no signs.
It was totally out of the blue. 
My point is, that you dont know  exactly whats going on with your horse, and you CANT predict what they will do- no matter how well behaved they are, or how good a rider you are.

An accident on my yard cemented my logic- a liverys horse- who is a lovely mare, that she had had no problems with-got freaked out by ANOTHER horse- bolted with her, and slid straight into a brick wall. they are both extremly lucky to have escaped serious injury- but her hat is totally destroyed. 
This accident was not the rider or horses fault- but an unknown factor.
I personally would never risk my head like that.
But each to their own.


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## georgiegirl (7 February 2011)

in a recent post about booting up horses for excercise PS i noticed you said something along the lines of you boot/bandage up everytime you ride you ride your horse and I quote "why would I not want to protect my horses legs?"

Now this isnt a personal go / dig whatever you want to call it but why then "would you not want to protect your head"? as i say, not having a go im just really really struggling to see the logic behind your thinking, im confused!

unfortunately I know people like these never have there opinions changed unless something bad happens - i sincerely hope this isnt the case here.


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## ArcticFox (7 February 2011)

thanks Booboos for the articles

in 2001 to 2003 there were nearly 103,000 non fatal horse related accidents in the US.  that's massive!!! and each year of the study 11500 people suffered traumatic brain injury.  that is much more than I thought it would be!!


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## coreteam1 (7 February 2011)

I always wear a hat and after several quite nasty falls  when my boy was younger I'm glad I wore it.  

I have recently been thinking about a Beagler/Patey hat for competitions and said to my sister (who wears one) that they do make a better picture.  However my boy can still be unpredictable and what I proposed to do was warm up in the harnessed hat and compete in the Patey.  However on reflection I would like to think that the hat isn't going to sway the judge for a better score )) and it's only 5 minutes of wear so I have decided to go for the safer harness version for now.

I do think that in the very near future we won't be allowed to compete without the harness hats and it will be good by to the Top Hat


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## woodlandswow (7 February 2011)

Prince33Sp4rkle said:



			i...........i dont wear a hat when im damn sure IM not going to fall off, "
		
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i dont want to make this slanging match worse.. but .. (hehe) .. for example.. riding a bicycle

my brother.. been riding a bike since walking.. we like cycling as a fam 
he is 15 yrs old
cycling down the road, 
to this day, we dont know what happens, were not going fast
bike slips from beneth him, 
falls of and fractures his skull.. 

now talk about pretty sights, but i can tell you, when you are 13 the sight of your brother lying there, blood pouring out of his ears, nose, mouth and head, is not a pretty sight

would i want someone to see me like that ?? NO!

*EVEN YOUR OWN HORSE IS UNPREDICTABLE.. THEY CANNOT SPEAK..!!*

what happens if a bee flys down and stings him on the bum??

sozzle.. my point made??


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## not_with_it (7 February 2011)

Sorry if I have missed something but I havent read all the replies.

Can I ask why this is aimed at just dressage riders?

Does every eventer/showjumper always wear a hat?

I understand that a higher percentage of dressage riders compared to showjumpers / eventers dont wear a hat but surely this should be aimed at everyone.

And yes I am a dressage rider


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## Prince33Sp4rkle (7 February 2011)

ok,few answers, and im trying not to be personal

"I actually enjoy your posts Princess Sparkle, all the matchy matchy and your gorgeous horses, especially Bruce. However, you are an experienced rider, with a lot of good, useful knowledge, which you are kind enough to pass on to other forum members. Nevertheless, one of the things I have learned in my life is that horses are not predictable. I have fallen off when I thought I wouldnt. For example, schooling my 18 year old mr sensible in the arena on Friday night he took great umbridge to a jump filler which had been sitting at the edge of the arena for days, and he had seen countless times before both in the day and under the floodlights. He dived sideways, bronced and bucked several times, unseating me, and throwing me into the middle of the arena, while he bronced back to his stable, which is next to the arena. I was unhurt and I had my hat on. The only thing broken was one of my nail extensions, and that was fixed this morning!

He is completely reliable, bombproof, safe, sane, and apart from a bit of bolshiness on the ground, is the perfect first horse. However, like all horses, he can be unpredictable. I am not the rider you are, I dont bother training that much, dont have lessons any more and slop around like a sack of spuds out hacking. I am a happy hacker and proud of that fact. However, the one thing I do know, is that sometime or other I will fall off again, and I wont be able to predict when it will happen - I wish I did, so please can you tell me your secret."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sorry did you miss the part where i said in TEN YEARS Bruce has NEVER bucked, reared,span or bolted.NEVER. Bruce taking violent exception to things is crossed eyebrows and a snort time. he got stung by a wasp,twice,and bless his cottons, grunted and ground to a halt, no kicking, no bucking. have had a car wing mirror clip his ample behind, and all he did was stop rather sharply and grunt.CS has double barrelled him and he doesnt even move. sorry but he sounds far more reliable than your horse.

(iv admittedly only had CS 2 years, but still, even when just backed he has never done a drop shoulder spin, or a spook of any kind, in the school, and if he isnt happy mr idle will quite simply,stop.hacking is another matter and i do always wear a hat and wouldnt dream of not doing so)

can i suggest that if you did still train, and didnt (your words) slop around like a sack of spuds, you may well have stayed on.its MY JOB to be sticky and lightening quick, and id hazard a guess that by riding several other  horses a week in addition to mine im rather harder to shift?????i dont mean that nastily, but it makes sense doesnt it?

how many of you have had a horse randomley trip to the point of firing you in to the fence please, whilst on the flat,not jumping?(an otherwise well behaved horse not one looping the loop)

cloudandmatrx-it sounds like your mares reaction to pain/fear, is to bolt. i dont know if i subconciously train my horses this way, or if i buy horses like this-but mine stop.confusion,pain,fear,they both gind to a halt. if i though for one second they were going to bugger off in to the ether with me, id be wearing a hat.

as for leg wraps/hats......how many more suspensory injuries per year are there than hatless related incidents. thousands more id say.

i cant get all those links to open at any sort of speed booboos-does it differentiate between head injuries on the ground, and head injures from riding? again id bet there are far more of the former, but would be willing to be proved wrong.id also like to know what people were doing when the injuries occured because as iv repeatedly said, i think flat work on a surface on a sensible horse,is a negligable risk compared to hunting, XC, team chasing or even riding down the road.


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## kirstyhen (7 February 2011)

I'm only adding to this post to answer a question, not to influence anyone! 




			how many of you have had a horse randomley trip to the point of firing you in to the fence please, whilst on the flat,not jumping?(an otherwise well behaved horse not one looping the loop)
		
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I used to be a Student at Hartpury, the huge outdoor arena was maintained beautifully and I rode in their whenever possible. 
One day I was warming up for jumping, trotting around the school forwards and balanced, no ruts in our path, nothing, when my horse fell over and fired me into the ground, if we hadn't been turning across the diagonal at the time I would have been fired out of the school (the fence is only small) and onto the hardcore at the side. I was fine apart from being very sore the day after, but I was wearing a Hat and BP (compulsory for jumping there).

My horse had hunted for 7 seasons and never tripped or fell, despite having his legs wrapped in wire once and hunting in some very slippery conditions. So I would trust him 100% to keep his feet in even the worst situatiions, it was just one of those moments where neither of us where paying attention.
He is also the only one I would ever trust enough to get on Sans Hat, I know him inside out, plus he likes to give written notice of bad behaviour 3 weeks in advance! Apart from once or twice I have always ridden him in a hat, but then it's always been a habit for me!

Now I admit I am a nervous rider, dislike riding 'naughty' horses, but get dumped on them fairly often for being so sticky (lanky legs do have a few uses!), so I would hope I could stay on in most situations (watch me fall off tomorrow ), in fact during that year I had ridden everyday at least once and ridden a huge variety of horses from ex 4* eventers to hairy trekking ponies, including several very sharp ponies I would normally avoid like the plague and didn't fall off any of them.


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## georgiegirl (7 February 2011)

yes PS and its MY JOB to try and piece together people who have head injuries from the moment they enter a&e's doors!

if our rules say that advanced riders must wear top hats then so be it. fine. but i dont understand for one minute whilst in training you would not employ safety equipment. with todays modern (and very beautiful hats) I think the argument of 'oh its jsut so uncomfy, I get too hot' is unfounded. My HS1 although not pretty was professionally fitted and you know what? I ride in it for HOURS and it doesnt bother me one jot.

FWIW anything I say wont make a blind bit of difference to what you think but as I said earlier (god forbid) it'll only take a near miss to make you change your mind (and others who do the same, not just getting at you in particlar)

I take hope that the trend of the top dressage riders using proper hats will rub off on those beneath them......

*phew* rant over. Sorry but the silly comments I've read have got me all hot and bothered. Must be my cold getting to me....


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## Booboos (7 February 2011)

ArcticFox said:



			thanks Booboos for the articles

in 2001 to 2003 there were nearly 103,000 non fatal horse related accidents in the US.  that's massive!!! and each year of the study 11500 people suffered traumatic brain injury.  that is much more than I thought it would be!!
		
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It is scary isn't it! The worst one was the one that suggested that the second highest cause of head injuries in children after car accidents was horses!


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## kezimac (7 February 2011)

I was recently looking for new hat to match my new navy pikuer jacket and thought really hard about getting a beagler as look lovely, and i just couldnt do it - I ended up with a lovely navy hat with harness and it looks nice and i feel safe. If i ever reach to dizzy heights of dressage where i am allowed to wear top hat - i will enter the arena proudly with my harnessed hat and tails safe in the knowledge I am doing everything i can to protect my brain.
My husband would never forgive me if I endanger myself unessecarily  - we run a business together - how could we live if i injure myself!? 


Excuse spelling - brain is tired tonight! (another reason to look after it!!!)


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## Booboos (7 February 2011)

Prince33Sp4rkle said:



			i cant get all those links to open at any sort of speed booboos-does it differentiate between head injuries on the ground, and head injures from riding? again id bet there are far more of the former, but would be willing to be proved wrong.id also like to know what people were doing when the injuries occured because as iv repeatedly said, i think flat work on a surface on a sensible horse,is a negligable risk compared to hunting, XC, team chasing or even riding down the road.
		
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I have only read the abstracts as I have to pay for the articles and I am a bit skint at the moment, but my general impression is that these studies were not necessarily designed to answer the hat/no hat question as such, apart from the fourth link which shows 3/4s of head injuries in people who were NOT wearing a hat. Some do look at risk factors, which include gender, age, experience of rider, age of horse, whether under instruction at the time, and activity, but seem to conclude that horses are inherently dangerous! One study suggests that more women than men appear to be injured, but there is no comment on the women to men ratio in riding in general and more people injured riding than handling. Another suggests that risk factors for injury are female riders, young horses, lack of instruction and riding outdoors.

Almost all seem to differentiate between riding and handling, but seem to agree that in both cases injury to the head is the most common injury. They seem to report a high number of handling injuries which does raise the question of wearing a hat when handling, but maybe that's a can of worms for another day!!! 

There are also quite a few studies on accidents in eventing, which (I think and on a very quick read) tend to conclude that most accidents here are spinal injuries, with a higher number of fatal/grave injuries at the higher levels.

I suppose the problem is that when people have an accident with a hat on, they may well escape injury free because the hat absorbs the shock (this is what happened to me when I was hit over the head by a rearing horse), so all these people would not appear in statistics as they never visit hospitals. On the other hand, having an accident involving one's head without a hat is more likely to lead to injury, a hospital visit and being part of the statistics.


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## Booboos (7 February 2011)

And just because I am a wee bit OCD and you nice people may wish to indulge me!

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=434511


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## mystiandsunny (7 February 2011)

Prince33Sp4rkle said:



			how many of you have had a horse randomley trip to the point of firing you in to the fence please, whilst on the flat,not jumping?(an otherwise well behaved horse not one looping the loop)
		
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Trotting in the warm-up arena at a show a few years ago, on a 9yo, surefooted and careful Native pony - the sort who can canter downhill on slippery ground, prop and turn without the slightest hint of a slip.  We simply trotted round the corner, and something happened - who knows what (place was flat as a pancake) - she tripped and fell.  Sweetheart that she is, she twisted as she was going down to throw me clear.  I had concussion that lasted several days, and a very creaky (and obviously broken!) hat.  This was off a 13.2hh!  She'd never tripped before or since, totally freak accident.


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## jnb (7 February 2011)

I'm a showing person and we regularly have this discussion too! I must admit I did buy a beagler, wore it once and hated it so much I have sold it.
I show at County and Agri level and I always wear a CO H2000, I generally am either the only one with a strapped hat, or in a large class, there may be 2 or 3 of us 
The "Pros" all wear Beaglers or Pateys, despite Katie Jerram's head injury 2 years ago and her subsequent article thanking her lucky stars she was at a show (Surrey County, I think?) which insists on strapped BSEN hats.
Funnily enough, at shows where the rules state you may not compete without a BSEN hat, all the other competitors discover their strapped hats and wear them , and guess what! - look just as good with them on as Beaglers and a whole lot better than they would on a ventilator.
Sadly - as the saying goes - You can lead a horse to water, but you can;t make it drink 

Here's a gratuitous photo of me with my ugly hat on (oh - and I'm on a cob too !!:


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## spookypony (8 February 2011)

Hmm. My own perspective is that I was brought up to wear a hat, and put it on as a matter of course...but I have to confess that the hat in question has often been older or more banged-up than it ought to have been. Sometimes for years. I'm a sticky rider: before the Spooky Pony, I had fallen off a total of six times in my life, usually as a result of the horse falling over, and never hit my head. I once had my head smacked against a concrete wall by a horse I was tacking up, and I'm very lucky I happened to be wearing my hat then. 

In the last 2 years, the Spooky Pony has managed to match that number of falls and then double it, _never_ by falling over himself. Three of those falls have been on my head: two on the helmet, and one actually, for real, literally on my nose. (My nose is fine, thanks!) The first one, my hat made a horrible _crunch_, and the second one, my head rang like a bell. It would be a _dumb_ idea to ride him without a hat. (Though I confess to not replacing the second hat as soon as I should have...  )

Nevertheless, I understand PS's point of view. She is arguing (correct me if I am mistaken, PS!  ) that outside of freak accidents, there is no statistical evidence showing any significant danger to an experienced rider schooling a sensible, well-schooled horse on a surface. Yes, freak accidents can happen to anyone, such as CKD. However, freak accidents can also happen on the ground, and just as many people on here can cite knowledge of equestrian freak accidents, I bet most of us can cite such accidents occurring during otherwise perfectly harmless activities. A guy I know slipped on some leaves and did his shoulder to a point where 6 months later, he requires surgery that might possibly be career-ending. Another guy I know slipped in the bathroom and sported a bandage on his head sometime after. Another guy broke his elbow in a ceilidh-related incident. I think what PS is saying is that she doesn't know of any evidence that suggests that not wearing a helmet in very specific circumstances is more inherently risky than walking down the street or going to a pub. As far as I know, none of the links provided show any analysis of the types of situations where the head injuries were sustained. I'd also be very interested in finding out if anyone has shown there to be a higher rate of head injury among a population of non-hatted dressage riders to a comparable group of hatted dressage riders.

Although I always wear a helmet to ride, I'm aware that sometimes our perceptions of what is acceptably safe behaviour is culturally predicated. I found it unbelievable, when moving to the UK, that so many people will tack up a horse in a stall, and that nobody cross-ties...I've relaxed somewhat on this issue, _despite_ aforementioned concrete-wall-head-incident...


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## Paladine (8 February 2011)

TGM said:



			Going back to the Courtney King-Dye accident, does anyone actually know exactly what happened?  Was it definitely on concrete? The press reports seem to mostly say that she was trying a horse for a client, asked it to move its haunches over and that it got its legs tangled and fell, which makes it sound like it was in a school.  I must say I have seen a similar accident where a very placid, reliable horse was doing lateral work, got his legs tangled and fell, though fortunately the rider didn't hit his head and was wearing a hat anyway.
		
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I never heard it was on concrete.  I heard she was schooling a horse for a client and on show grounds but NOT competing or warming up for competing, she asked it to move the haunches over at the canter, and it fell.  


A similar think happened to me; I was trotting, asked my mare to move her haunches over, she tripped and fell on me.  I was unhurt.


Just keep in mind helmets do not make one invincible.  They don't help from a broken neck, for example.  And neither does not wearing a helmet sign your death warrant every time you get on.  Sure, it lessens the chance of some head injuries.  CKD could still have had a TBI with a helmet, because of the whiplash.  Would it have been less with a helmet? Maybe.


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## Booboos (8 February 2011)

spookypony said:



			Nevertheless, I understand PS's point of view. She is arguing (correct me if I am mistaken, PS!  ) that outside of freak accidents, there is no statistical evidence showing any significant danger to an experienced rider schooling a sensible, well-schooled horse on a surface. Yes, freak accidents can happen to anyone, such as CKD. However, freak accidents can also happen on the ground, and just as many people on here can cite knowledge of equestrian freak accidents, I bet most of us can cite such accidents occurring during otherwise perfectly harmless activities.  I think what PS is saying is that she doesn't know of any evidence that suggests that not wearing a helmet in very specific circumstances is more inherently risky than walking down the street or going to a pub. As far as I know, none of the links provided show any analysis of the types of situations where the head injuries were sustained. I'd also be very interested in finding out if anyone has shown there to be a higher rate of head injury among a population of non-hatted dressage riders to a comparable group of hatted dressage riders.
		
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Yes, I think this is a very good point and it would be very useful to have a proper assessment of the relative risk of different riding activities by different level riders on different types/ages of horses. It may turn out that under some circumstances riding without a hat is safer than crossing the road - something we all do all the time, without second thought!

However, there are two possible qualifications that partly negate this argument:
1. Identifying these circumstances may prove to be quite difficult, especially given the number of diverse and potentially changing variables involved.
2. Assessment of the risk should always involve an assessment of the cost of risk avoidance strategies. For example, driving at 30mph on a motorway would probably avoid the majority of fatalities we now have on motorways, but would seriously delay us in getting from A to B with resultant repercussions for our lifestyles, jobs, etc. so the cost of risk avoidance is considered too great in comparison to the risk. It strikes me that, aside from very rare cases of people with hat related head problems, for most of us the cost of wearing a hat is fairly negligeable. This tells in favour of wearing a hat even when it's not necessary.

Just to say, NONE of this is intended as applying to any one person on this thread or otherwise, you know me, I just like a good discussion! I still believe that people should have free choice in this matter, I just like discussion what the best choice might be!


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## TGM (8 February 2011)

Booboos said:



			It strikes me that, aside from very rare cases of people with hat related head problems, for most of us the cost of wearing a hat is fairly negligeable.
		
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I think this is a key point.  The head is such a vulnerable area of the body, damage to it can have catastrophic results, and yet it is pretty simple to give it protection by wearing a hat which doesn't take two seconds to put on, and doesn't restrict you or impact on your riding in any way.  The only drawback to wearing a hat seems to be the dreaded 'hat hair' but personally I won't let vanity stop me wearing one!


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## kerilli (8 February 2011)

quirky said:



			Just the thought of my Mother/OH/Whoever having to wipe my backside and change my tampons is reason enough to wear a hat .
		
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OMG, i'd thought about having to have my bum wiped, that'd be awful beyond words, but jeezus, that's last bit just utterly horrified me. ugh. yeuk.

i'd heard that Courtney's fall was on a surface too fwiw, doing a bit of lateral work. i don't think she'd have been doing that on cement or concrete...
it says here that she was schooling the horse. nice pic btw...    gladdens my heart.
http://www.dressage-news.com/?p=5307
btw, i didn't start this thread to preach, but because i think it's interesting to see how good a helmet and tails looks. riders eventually get used to the look of a new product. i remember when i was just about the only one wearing a crash hat for hunting, now a lot of people do. my mother just wouldn't let me go without one...
nothing else to add really, other than that anyone who thinks ANY horse is 100% predictable is, i'm sorry to say, an utter nutter.    i'm pretty sticky, and pretty experienced, and i certainly don't wobble off for no reason, but i got decked so fast last time (by a horse who hadn't ever bucked or anything with a rider on) my last thought was 'i'm still in the middle, i'm fine' - then i was on the floor. then on the way to hospital...
crikey, i can't even predict what i'm going to do next myself sometimes, let alone 1/2 a tonne of cowardly flight animal being sat on by a predator and taught to do ballet...


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## Tempi (8 February 2011)

JNB - I have also shown at county level (on my cob  ) but i was told everyone HAD to wear a harnessed hat.  This was a while ago, probably around 7yrs ago actually, and i was in the collecting ring in my beagler and someone came up to me and said i had to change my hat to a harnessed one as beaglers werent allowed??  Luckily i had a harnesed one the same as yours in my lorry so made a quick dash and swapped it over.  I was doing MW Hunter class at the Bath and West at the time.


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## dibbin (8 February 2011)

Prince33Sp4rkle said:



			how many of you have had a horse randomley trip to the point of firing you in to the fence please, whilst on the flat,not jumping?(an otherwise well behaved horse not one looping the loop)
		
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I have, actually. Not into the fence, but I did land on my head. My boy (who, in the 7 years I had him, was as sure footed as anything), tripped while trotting round the arena, and fell right over, firing me out the side door. Had he tripped the other way, I _would_ have been in the fence. He had never done it before, and never did it again.

And, if I'm honest, I'm a pretty sticky rider myself, I'm not fantastic but it takes a lot to get me out of the saddle. I've fallen off doing flatwork on my own horse a total of 3 times in years, I knew him inside out and couldn't have predicted any of them.


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## photo_jo (8 February 2011)

TGM said:



			I think this is a key point.  The head is such a vulnerable area of the body, damage to it can have catastrophic results, and yet it is pretty simple to give it protection by wearing a hat which doesn't take two seconds to put on, and doesn't restrict you or impact on your riding in any way.  The only drawback to wearing a hat seems to be the dreaded 'hat hair' but personally I won't let vanity stop me wearing one!
		
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and yet loads of the no hat brigade wear anky bands or such like so are still going to suffer hat hear anyway


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## kerilli (8 February 2011)

Paladine said:



			Just keep in mind helmets do not make one invincible.  They don't help from a broken neck, for example.  And neither does not wearing a helmet sign your death warrant every time you get on.  Sure, it lessens the chance of some head injuries.  CKD could still have had a TBI with a helmet, because of the whiplash.  Would it have been less with a helmet? Maybe.
		
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Absolutely to the first point. Actually, the last time I schooled without a hat (yonks ago,  boiling hot day, very trustworthy homebred) I noticed that I was slightly more passive in my attitude, I do wonder whether knowing that one is more vulnerable makes one ask things slightly more passively... whether having a hat on does encourage the 'i'm invincible, i can push/ask this horse for more and more' attitude. i really don't know.

CKD fractured her skull. surely it's safe to say that a helmeted head is protected from such injuries far more than an unhelmeted head...? i don't think "Maybe" gets in there, really...


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## CrazyMare (8 February 2011)

kerilli said:



			OMG, i'd thought about having to have my bum wiped, that'd be awful beyond words, but jeezus, that's last bit just utterly horrified me. ugh. yeuk.
		
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Luckily the neuro rehab unit I work on, they can all manage that bit themselves, BUT, they are the lucky ones.

By lucky I mean, they *only* have problems with memory, coordination, mobility, lowered tolerance levels, disturbed sleep/waking patterns, I could continue that list.

The unlucky ones end up in PVS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persistent_vegetative_state


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## pip6 (8 February 2011)

Girl at last yard had this happen (she was into 'classical'). Luckly (?) for her her chest took the brunt of the force of landing on the p&r fence, so she broke her ribs rather than her head. Now wears a hat, but refuses to wear hi-viz hacking on a main road. Some people can only learn the painful way.


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## ArcticFox (8 February 2011)

I had a horse randomly fall over on a surface! we were schooling in trot and he just fell over! I lay on my side watching him stand up thinking - ow my foot hurts!  

Ok so not my head but still, he randomly fell and I ended up in a plaster and on crutches.


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## ArcticFox (8 February 2011)

I'm sure you wouldn't have tampons if your parents or nursing staff needed to look after you - I think Sanitary Towels would be in order!!! 

Doesn't bear thinking about


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## FrodoBeutlin (8 February 2011)

kerilli said:



			Absolutely to the first point. Actually, the last time I schooled without a hat (yonks ago,  boiling hot day, very trustworthy homebred) I noticed that I was slightly more passive in my attitude, I do wonder whether knowing that one is more vulnerable makes one ask things slightly more passively... whether having a hat on does encourage the 'i'm invincible, i can push/ask this horse for more and more' attitude. i really don't know.

CKD fractured her skull. surely it's safe to say that a helmeted head is protected from such injuries far more than an unhelmeted head...? i don't think "Maybe" gets in there, really...  

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This is interesting, I actually feel the opposite way -- I've always been more confident and ridden better without a helmet! I guess that after years of thinking that helmets are for dangerous horses or situations only, my brain has been conditioned to equate helmet-wearing with "increased risk"! It doesn't matter, I am sure as years go by I will get more and more used to it. And I've become so protective of my little brain, that I'd rather ride a little worse but safeguard my head than the other way round!

As for Courtney's accident, I clearly was mistaken -- I am sure I had read (very early on, when it had just happened) that she wasn't doing anything, just walking just outside the arena, but of course I might have misread or the source could have been unreliable, I can't even remember where I read it.

And as for horses falling over without reason: Rauti actually did it too!! He was 7 and my trainer was riding him, schooling trot extensions.....at the end of one diagonal, just before the corner, he lost his balance for some reason and fell over breaking my trainer's ankle


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## charleysummer (8 February 2011)

I fell off and landed on my head in a completley unexpected event- remember its not always a nutter horse that will cause you to fall off!

i passed out mid air over a jump! landed on my head and woke up unable to move any part of my body, scariest thing ive ever done. 

its not worth the risk  i got away with concussion


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## Kat (8 February 2011)

I've already pointed out that I've had a horse randomly fall over whilst I was riding. Didn't hit the fence as we weren't near it. The last thing I knew we were halted talking to my instructor, the next I was on the floor, and so was the horse. That was a riding school horse! 

I have seen another horse fall over for no apparent reason, a nice safe cob that is privately owned. On minute his sharer was trotting him round the indoor school (well maintained used for BD/BS/BSPS BHS exams etc. The next minute the horse was doing a forward roll, he seemed to just forget what to do with his front legs. Rider broke her boot but not her head. 

DH has also had a steady suitable for novices horse fall over whilst riding on the flat, on a surface, but a different surface from the previous ones. 

As I also mentioned above I've heard of more than one case where horses have collapsed with their rider on board.


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## Prince33Sp4rkle (8 February 2011)

certainly more horses dropping for no reason than i thought, that i will admit.

its not so much the fact that people dont like it/dont agree with it etc, its the way in which people put their view across. i can agree to disagree but take exception to the name calling.

anyone who smokes, drink, sunbathes or is overweight through overeating,is taking as much of a calculated risk, if not more,and is putting as much of an alleged strain on the NHS.i can only imagine how well calling a larger person stupid would go down!

ill ask again -where does it end? law to wear hats whilst clipping?loading?turning out?bringing in?grooming? have seen/heard about far more accidents/injuries caused by the first two than by hatless flatowork, and i refuse to believe that every single person on this thread wears a hat for clipping and loading!


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## TheoryX1 (8 February 2011)

I read this thread again with interest.  To PS, I noted your comments last night, went off to get a large g and t and do some work I had brought home.  However, I am not given to being retaliatory and nasty, life is far too short, but please dont pass judgements on situations you were not witness to.  For a start, I personally hate hat hair.  I have short, curly and very dry hair which I use lots of mouse and spray on - my hat makes it all hard and sweaty and I have to wash my hair every day I ride - which is 4-5 times a week.  Washing my hair practically every day makes it dry and uncontrollable, but thats life.  However, I would much rather pay this price than the price my family would pay in looking after me in a vegetative state after a hatless accident, and even the hassle that my poor old business partner would have after something like that happening to me.  

Believe it or not, we do care, in fact most of us do on here.  Also, I dont particularily want to justify myself, but I dont compete any longer, ride an older horse I have owned for years, and spend all my money on lessons on Mini TX who events.  I also work 60 plus hours a work in a very demanding job, plus work from home, I sometimes find it hard to find the time to ride my own horse, so where on earth I would find the time to ride others, goodness knows.  My daughter witnessed what happened, she is a very, very good rider, and even she said she would not have stayed on as my horse practically turned himself inside out.  We are talking about a sane 18 year old cob here, who I know very well.  Totally out of character - his normal reaction to things sound pretty much like Bruce - a raised eyebrow and thats it.  Taking it one step further, she was dumped last night from our youngster, who reared constantly because she didnt want to work, and who threw her toys well and truly out of her pram.  My daughter has a very sticky bum but even she ended up in the sand, thankfully she was fine, and a very naughty young horse was put to bed.  

Actually, I am not angry, I have far too many other things to worry about.  I just find the hatless brigade and their reasoning a little bit baffling.  Horses are unpredictable, why not just protect yourself and your family and loved ones against the unforseen - put your hats on, it only takes a couple of seconds.


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## zefragile (8 February 2011)

Prince33Sp4rkle said:



			certainly more horses dropping for no reason than i thought, that i will admit.

its not so much the fact that people dont like it/dont agree with it etc, its the way in which people put their view across. i can agree to disagree but take exception to the name calling.

anyone who smokes, drink, sunbathes or is overweight through overeating,is taking as much of a calculated risk, if not more,and is putting as much of an alleged strain on the NHS.i can only imagine how well calling a larger person stupid would go down!

ill ask again -where does it end? law to wear hats whilst clipping?loading?turning out?bringing in?grooming? have seen/heard about far more accidents/injuries caused by the first two than by hatless flatowork, and i refuse to believe that every single person on this thread wears a hat for clipping and loading!
		
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Well a larger person may be larger through illness/injury/medication.
By drinking responsibly, I'm not going to smash my skull open.
Wearing hats for clipping and loading is a sensible precaution, surely? I've always worn a hat for loading, and now wear one for turning out aswell.


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## siennamum (8 February 2011)

It seems logical that there is more risk involved in galloping & jumping & less risk involved in flatwork. If you are doing flatwork hatless in a controlled environment on a steady horse you may well statistically be safer than if you are going XC with all the safety gear.

I think though that anecdotally, and I suspect in reality, terrible accidents seem to happen when you least expect them. You will probably go down like a stone and get kicked in the hear when teaching a steady RS cob turn on the forehand and it stumbles (happened to a friend of mine she owned the RS and hunted & evented). Many falls IME are stupid, and often have little relevance to riding ability.

Another incident I heard of involved an experienced rider returning to her vehicle after jumping a round and undoing her hat before she dismounted. She was dropped on the bonnet of her father's car after a loose horse spooked hers, which was standing still at the time.

I don't have strong views on whether other people wear hats. I wear one at all times, and often when handling. I insist on everyone in my family & on the yard doing the same and get irate when I see people putting children on just for a minute hatless. It always amazes me on the continent when I see children riding and doing things like vaulting, hatless (in plimpsolls & leotards!!!) It does sadden me though that professional riders set such a bad example. If you don't want your hair getting sweaty & to be fragrant & well groomed at all times, then really I wonder whether riding is the best sport for you.


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## Prince33Sp4rkle (8 February 2011)

:masiveamountofswearwords: i said "overweight through OVEREATING!!!!! stop twisting things!

do you wear a hat for clipping then?

TX-i am simply trying to point out that you yourself said you are not as agile in the saddle as you were/could be , if training more often. and that i train more,and ride more, and thus am probably a lot more likely to stay on.i didnt say you SHOULD train more, or should do anything different, just pointed out that your situation is in no way comparable to mine, so perhaps you should not pass judgement on me either?
if i was going to get on something known to rear constantly id have a hat on too! i dont know how many times i have to say im making an assesment of risk based on THAT horse on THAT day, and dont  adopt a *blanket policy to NEVER wear a hat*.im getting almightly fed up of things being twisted to suit or people making unrealistic comparisons.

please dont get angry because iv picked holes in your theory(pardon the pun) thats the point of a debate surely?


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## Seahorse (8 February 2011)

Last year I bought a beagler from Hickstead, it's very beautiful and fits me perfectly. The next day I wore it to ride in and hate to say I felt very vulnerable wearing it. I was convinced it was going to fall off and I was very aware that if I did come off and hit my head it wasn't going to do much good.
I have a lovely Champion hat with a flesh harness for competitions and I take that and the beagler with me but always end up wearing the Champion. 

I quite often used to ride hatless when I was younger, even on the road but to be honest I was an arrogant bitch who was so up my own arse I was convinced that I would never come off as I was such an amazing rider!
Someone stopped me on the road once and asked me why I wasn't wearing a hat, it turned out he was an ex showjumper (now a lorry driver) who had come off a very safe horse in a freak accident and he wasn't wearing a hat. He had very serious head injuries and was in a coma for 3 weeks. He had to learn to do everything all over again and in the meantime lost his yard and horses, and had to give up showjumping.


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## zefragile (8 February 2011)

Prince33Sp4rkle said:



			:masiveamountofswearwords: i said "overweight through OVEREATING!!!!! stop twisting things!

do you wear a hat for clipping then?
		
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I was referring more to the comment about calling a larger person "stupid". I wasn't twisting.
I don't do the clipping, but if I did yes I'd wear a hat.


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## ecrozier (8 February 2011)

Not going to comment on anyone else or their opinions. I have ridden hatless in the past, but stopped aged 19 when my best friend at the time's little sister had an accident. She was on a her PC open dressage teams, been to many championships, on a seriously reliable safe schoolmaster who had competed adv med, she was having a lesson in a beautiful school, working on laterals. Horse stumbled, couldn't right herself and went down. They still don't know why/how. Rider Thought she had rolled clear but horse was attemting to get up and caught back of riders head with a hoof. She spent 10 days in ICU and has tbh never been quite the same. She was wearing a hat which was dented by the impact of the hoof. 
Since then I have never ridden without a hat.
People do on our yard but tbh I don't really interject - itstheir parents/families/oh that would have to pick up the pieces. Madness tho as our school is not brilliant surface-wise.
One more thing working in H&S, it's all about risk control. Often can't eliminiate risk totally but try to control as far as reasonably practicable. Hence why for example cars have seat belts, rally cars harnesses etc. 
With the modern day popularity of compensation culture I wonder if/when a top rider will be sued if a student/pupil comes off and injures their head - if said instructor hasn't insisted on a hat?


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## rowy (8 February 2011)

I always wear a hat and always have done. Its the norm for me now to wear one and i would have to go out of my way to forget otherwise. 

2bh I am a bit of a hypocondriact, (espeically after watching such sad films like "a little piece of heaven" soooo sad! though nothing to do with horse riding) and i would prefer not to end up in hospital!
I know that doing flat work is less likely to get in danger, the risks are significantly less but one day I was on a ISH who was 5 at the time I think and he was the most laziest horse! never spooked as it was too much energy, just liked to plod round qhile i was continually kicking him! one day someone else was riding in the school one person was lunging. this other horse got tangled in the lung line and my mr dope decided this was the moment to take off! he bolted round the arena, did an enormous buck and i ended up flying into the fencing and then, when i had landed on the floor, the horse decided it would stand on my knee as cantering away. - this could have so easily been my head or i could have hit my head on the fencing! I have also come off twice more into school fencing. because as horse spooks violently i always try my hardest to stay on and then horse usually swings itself into the fence. Nice!
anyway, im a pretty laid back person and 2bh if it stops me worrying and my mum worrying about me coming off, the it doesnt really hurt me to wear one. maybe a little hat hair is all but my hairs is so fluffy and frizzy anyway, it needs a bit of flattening  and i love my champion grand prix hat- it is sooooo light i forget im wearing it and has air vents to help cool my head even though you cant even see the air vents from the outside, how cool is that!
Fairplay, i will be soooo annoyed if it becomes the law to ride in a body protector, just because these are so uncomfortable and really effect your riding as makes you stiff so you sit funny.

oh and after reading all your horrific accidents i really dont know why i ride any more  im pretty sure horse riding is the most dangerous sport.


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## ecrozier (8 February 2011)

Not going to comment on anyone else or their opinions. I have ridden hatless in the past, but stopped aged 19 when my best friend at the time's little sister had an accident. She was on a her PC open dressage teams, been to many championships, on a seriously reliable safe schoolmaster who had competed adv med, she was having a lesson in a beautiful school, working on laterals. Horse stumbled, couldn't right herself and went down. They still don't know why/how. Rider Thought she had rolled clear but horse was attemting to get up and caught back of riders head with a hoof. She spent 10 days in ICU and has tbh never been quite the same. She was wearing a hat which was dented by the impact of the hoof. 
Since then I have never ridden without a hat.
People do on our yard but tbh I don't really interject - itstheir parents/families/oh that would have to pick up the pieces. Madness tho as our school is not brilliant surface-wise.
One more thing working in H&S, it's all about risk control. Often can't eliminiate risk totally but try to control as far as reasonably practicable. Hence why for example cars have seat belts, rally cars harnesses etc. 
With the modern day popularity of compensation culture I wonder if/when a top rider will be sued if a student/pupil comes off and injures their head - if said instructor hasn't insisted on a hat?


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## kerilli (8 February 2011)

Seahorse said:



			Someone stopped me on the road once and asked me why I wasn't wearing a hat, it turned out he was an ex showjumper (now a lorry driver) who had come off a very safe horse in a freak accident and he wasn't wearing a hat. He had very serious head injuries and was in a coma for 3 weeks. He had to learn to do everything all over again and in the meantime lost his yard and horses, and had to give up showjumping.
		
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I hacked one out once, and totally forgot to put my hat on, realised and thought 'oh, stuff it, it's a safe horse'. Later my mum was accosted by a brain surgeon who lived in one of the houses i'd hacked past, who begged her to beg me NEVER to ride out on the roads hatless again, as he has to see and work on the consequences of such things daily. he was really upset about seeing me so stupidly vulnerable. 
i've got on hatless before, gone 20 yards, realised i can feel the wind in my hair (oops) and gotten straight off and gone back for a hat... i did this a few weeks ago actually, got on with fleecy hat on, oops.

btw, yes, i always put a hat on to clip now. had too many friends booted while clipping, one badly, in the head.
i put on a hat to load a youngster or an unknown horse, not a mature easy loader, i must admit.

as to horses just dropping... hmm. i know two people who've had horses drop under them from a heart attack, one was hacking at walk up the lane. i've had a horse stumble badly enough (on a good surface) to send me straight over his shoulder. i've had one somehow fall over while cantering a 20m circle in dr warm up at a show...
daft things happen out of the blue. people get hospitalised every day from horses (just watch one of the Medical Emergency t.v. programmes, there seems to be a horse-related one every time!) and i very much doubt many of them saw it coming... some of them are seriously experienced horsemen and -women.


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## pip6 (8 February 2011)

PS please relax, there is no need for (hypothetical) swear words. Take it as a compliment that these people care enough they are trying to convey to you what they have experienced so you can avoid the resultant pain (emotional & physical). The way I read them, what they are saying is that accidents (ie events deemed unlikely in terms of risk assessment) do happen, reguarly & unpredictably. It only takes one of these accidents to ruin a life no matter how many times they have ridden with no problem.

I said before, MHO is what you do on private property is your own business. I personally wear a hat, even on private land. I do believe as son as you go into the public domain where your actions can impact on other peoples lives, it becomes your responsibility to wear a hat, no matter what age.

I am over my ideal weight & take full responsibility for it for the amount of exercise I do, it would indicate I have consumed too many calories, else I would be skiny. I didn't especially care for your analogy as I fail to see how I am causing anyone pain or how they have to care for me because of my choices, I am self-sufficient, functioning, working member of the community. Not trying to twist the meaning of your words in any way.


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## Vetwrap (8 February 2011)

For the most part, I ignore what other people decide to do, as reards hi-viz and hats.  There are a couple of people who give me the benefit of their humour and wit with regard to my looking like a Christmas tree, hacking out - but then they get my comment about prefering to be seen rather than splattered on the bonnet of a car.  Each to their own...

But recently, one of the young girls at our yard has taken to riding in the school without a hat on.  I have fetched her hat for her - and I have also told her that it is the only yard rule that the YO gets very upset about not being adhered to.

Then I went home and told my husband, who got very upset and sent the youngster in question a  private message on Facebook.  He had never told me about having to spoon feed his friend after a hatless riding accident.

The next time he saw the young lady in question, up at the yard, she simply gave him a big hug and nothing more was said.

She now rides in her hat again.


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## cloudandmatrix (8 February 2011)

Out of interest, I wonder if anyone can tell me any advantages, or reasons to ride without a hat, instead of just wearing one?


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## Weezy (8 February 2011)

I hunt in a Patey.

I always wear the highest level of hat to do everything else in - a PROtector.  I have to hack along a lane to get to the school, so hat goes on and stays on.  When I didn't have to hack to the school I would often ride without one in the summer especially.

The most serious accident I have ever had was when my horse and I somersaulted at a gallop. I was wearing a fixed peak hat, freakily, as I was taking an 11 year old out riding with me - normally I didn't wear a hat as it isn't the norm in Spain at all.  I came round with the hat having come off over the back of my head and the harness was throttling me.  The person that found me couldn't undo it immediately and it was very serious.   I was incredibly concussed, could well have been kicked in the head by the horse, so the hat saved and nearly killed me all in one....just food for thought there.

Recently I was hacking and the ground gave way under my horse and we both hit the deck - I didn't hit my head, but it is an example of things happening beyond your control.

I would never, ever condemn anyone for riding without a hat, unless they are doing on the road - that is a COMPLETE no-no for me.


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## Weezy (8 February 2011)

cloudandmatrix said:



			Out of interest, I wonder if anyone can tell me any advantages, or reasons to ride without a hat, instead of just wearing one?
		
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In Spain it was mostly to do with the heat.  However, I appreciate that hat technology has come on leaps and bounds in the last 10 years and there is no reason to use heat as a reason not to wear a hat these days.


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## kit279 (8 February 2011)

Prince33Sp4rkle said:



			anyone who smokes, drink, sunbathes or is overweight through overeating,is taking as much of a calculated risk, if not more,and is putting as much of an alleged strain on the NHS.
		
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The point about all those activity is that they require a SUSTAINED period of usage in order to cause harm.  People who smoke, eat and drink enough to cause themselves harm and cost the NHS money do so for years and years.  Their decision making is consistent and they have many opportunities to stop what they are doing before it harms them.

However, a riding accident need happen only once.  A smoker once said to me in clinic that he was annoyed that his lungs were shot but that he had enjoyed every cigarette and he was now paying the price.  If you have an accident, can you say you enjoyed your ride any more because you didn't wear a hat?

And you'd be surprised about the cost of neurological care, rehab, carers etc.  Smokers, drinkers and fatties - they are older mostly.  You are young.  If you are injured tomorrow, you may live to be 70.  

50 years x 365 days a year = 18250 days
Cost of full-time care per day = £150
Cost of care over a lifetime = £2.7 million

Plus initial care costs - £1 million, for surgery, the cost of a neuro-ITU bed, medications, physio, rehabilitation

Ongoing care costs - including pressure sores (seriously expensive and difficult to treat, require silver impregnated dressing, daily district nurse visits), chest infections, urinary tract infections from an indwelling catheter.

Plus the modifications to your home so that you could be fed, moved (eg. hoist), washing facilities.

The cost of one single person having a brain injury can and does run into tens of millions.  With relatively little improvement to show for it, by and large - these patients don't usually return to their previous function.

You might think I'm going on (and I am) but the point is that once you've SEEN this for yourself, whether through work or through someone else having to go through this, I'd be totally amazed if you felt you could take that risk.


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## rebmw (8 February 2011)

You can add me to the group of people who's horses have dropped from underneath them whilst riding on a good surface.

One minute I was cantering on my agile and surefooted horse, the next he had done the splits with his front legs and my face was inches from the floor. I made a split second decision to roll off to allow him to get up, but as he scrambled to his feet he trod on my head several times. Thankfully I was wearing a hat and I only had a graze to my face and had to buy a new hat. He was fine and never did anything like that again. It makes me sick just thinking of the what ifs, if I hadn't been wearing a hat.

On another note, I've also spent a month beside my OH in hospital and then a month when he went to rehab after having a brain injury (not horse related) and can confirm what a truly awful and upsetting experience it was.

Without sounding patronising, you only get one brain. Your brain makes you who you are. It's hard to describe but it's only when you watch someone you know and love become almost unrecognisable apart from the 'shell' on the outside due to a small amount of brain damage, that you realise how precious your brain is. The first night in hospital I kept thinking of all the times I've had a fall from a horse, whilst wearing a hat, and how I've been saved from any horrible injury, and how lucky I've been.

I've worked at a top showjumping yard for a few years, where nobody wore a hat apart from me. Yes I was the odd one out, but I didn't care. I'm not one to cave in to peer pressure or trying to be 'fashionable'.

I admit i have schooled a couple of horses in an arena at home, a fair few years ago and prior to head treading experience, on a scorching hot summers day without a hat.

Would I do it now? No.

As so many have said already, accidents can happen to anyone, thats the risk we all take when we get out of bed everyday, let alone get on a horse.

Since my experience with my OH, I value my life hugely. My head and the small amount of brain cells inside it are very precious to me and I will do what it takes to preserve them. I will always ride in a hat, that is my personal opinion.


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## little_flea (8 February 2011)

A lot of things we do in life involves calculating the risks involved - for example I know it is not great for me to drink alcohol, but the benefits outweigh the disadvantages for me. To me riding without a hat just seems like too little pleasure compared to the gain - and with the huge negative impact of a possible accident just doesn't seem comparable to something as simple as just putting a hat on. 

If it was a real benefit to ride without a hat - like if it would make me a better rider by 100x or make me more likely to win the lottery, then there could be an argument for it and a risk worth taking - but there is just nothing... just slightly less hat-hair...


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## SusieT (8 February 2011)

'how many of you have had a horse randomley trip to the point of firing you in to the fence please, whilst on the flat,not jumping?(an otherwise well behaved horse not one looping the loop)'
Twice. And I'm an experienced eventing rider.
Once just trotting across a diagonal, fired off in front of horse, no damage done, say hatless adn closer to the corner? (just as likely a scenario, not far fetched), could have been into corner fence post.
Second time, trotting along long side, horse went down, me straight over his shoulder. All he had to do was do it opposite side of the school and I would have been trapped between him and a solid concrete wall, not pleasant thinking about.
Both of these would be what you would consider solid bombproof horses, suitable for kids to ride if required.
I haven't fallen off current horse bar one fluke time, eventing. I wear a hat everytime I ride. It's alien to me not to ride without a hat and if you wear one everytime, it gets like that
Totally bombproof, never rears bucks or bolts, ever. Saint. As are the rest of the current bunch. I wouldn't get on a motorbike without a helmet either.


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## ArcticFox (8 February 2011)

I have to admit that I do feel that PS is getting a hard time, although there doesn't seem to be anyone else standing up for the hatless so I think that hatless riders are very much a minority now.  

My takings from the thread are:

Its nice to see dressage riders are beginning to wear hats, and other disciplines like western will probably follow suit soon

Top hats will soon be a thing of the past unless a company makes a PAS standard one. 

There are many times horses have fallen for no reason - more responses than I would have expected

what people do in their own property is their choice

research has shown that riding is a dangerous sport! 

I will always wear a hat when riding - food for thought regarding loading/clipping

I wouldn't like to wear a body protector for everything so that is also food for thought as its another safety measure

Don't go against people on the HHO forum as you'll get beaten into submission!!! (joke)


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## SusieT (8 February 2011)

Weezy (and others-just havent seen any others post about being hatless w/ kids). You have kids-yes? 
You would have them grow up without you because you fancied feeling the wind in your hair as you rode?


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## little_flea (8 February 2011)

Not sure if this has been mentioned - but what about insurance? If you sustained head injury that could have been prevented if you were wearing a hat, would they still pay out as happily?

(Sorry if everyone else knows the answer to this, it is actually something I have never considered since I wear a hat)


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## Kokopelli (8 February 2011)

Anti-hat wearers would say no to this? 
http://www.chanel.com/fashion/8-sport-horse-riding-helmet-of-aluminum-and-composite-for-any-additional-information-please-contact-your-chanel-boutique-23,5#8-sport-horse-riding-helmet-of-aluminum-and-composite-for-any-additional-information-please-contact-your-chanel-boutique-23,5

I personally think its ridiculous riding without a hat, I don't understand why someone would want to make our sport anymore dangerous then it actually is.


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## rebmw (8 February 2011)

little_flea said:



			Not sure if this has been mentioned - but what about insurance? If you sustained head injury that could have been prevented if you were wearing a hat, would they still pay out as happily?

(Sorry if everyone else knows the answer to this, it is actually something I have never considered since I wear a hat)
		
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I wondered this too.

Surely in an age where insurance companies will try and find the smallest excuse to weasel out of paying out for a claim, if they knew you were riding without a hat I'd be surprised if they would pay. Especially if it was a personal accident claim.


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## rebmw (8 February 2011)

just found this from last years H&H....

Q: In the light of Courtney King-Dye's accident, I double-checked my insurance to see what would happen in the event of a serious fall.

Is it correct that some cover  including private health insurance, personal injury insurance and possibly mortgage cover and life insurance  could be void if riders are not wearing good protective headwear and their lack of a hat is a contributory factor to their injury?

KW Lincs

The benefit from some insurance policies may be affected if a lack of protective headgear is considered to be a contributory factor to a person's injury.

According to David Buckton, associate director of South Essex Insurance Brokers (SEIB), there are a couple of points to keep in mind regarding protective headgear.

"Some policies  private health, travel, accident, mortgage protection, life insurances and so on  will not cover dangerous sporting activities," he said.

"Companies differ in their attitude to horse riding  some regard it as a dangerous activity. It is therefore important always to check that a policy does not exclude the particular riding activity or discipline being undertaken."

This is often overlooked on holidays, so if you are planning to ride a horse when abroad, make sure your travel insurance covers you.

"As far as the hat issue is concerned, we all have a general duty to take reasonable care of ourselves," David added. "Not wearing a riding helmet and then sustaining a head injury may not necessarily invalidate an insurance policy, unless there is a specific policy condition requiring a hard hat.

"However, if the lack of protective headgear is a contributory factor, then any benefit is likely to be reduced. Remember also that not all accidents involving horses come from falling off; many of the most serious injuries happen on the ground while handling them."

Information

SEIB, tel: 01708 850000 www.seib.co.uk

This article was first published in Horse & Hound (22 April, '10)


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## cloudandmatrix (8 February 2011)

I think that my problem is- I honestly can't see any gain from not wearing a hat?


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## anomaly (8 February 2011)

I can get access to a huge range of scientific journals as a student so thought i'd provide an insight into some of the research thats been done on the subject. 
(Chitnavis et al.)
There has been a marked fall (46 per cent) in the total number of admissions due to horse-related injuries compared with 20 years ago. This has been achieved despite an estimated 5 per cent per year increase in the number of people riding. The drop in serious injuries is mainly explained by a significant fall in head injury admissions. The associated decrease in the number of skull fractures might be related to the increased use of improved riding helmets, especially since injuries to other body regions has not diminished. *Young amateur female riders remain the most frequently injured group*. 
(Worley, 2010):
Each horse has its own personal set of stimuli that may cause it to spook or react unpredictably. These stressors may include loud noises, unfamiliar objects, animals, humans, traffic, plants, and unseen/imaginary objects. Reactions of this type can be overcome to a great extent by proper training of the horse, but they can never be completely eliminated (no matter how 'bombproof' you believe your horse to be).
(Ball et al., 2006): The hospital admission rate associated with equestrian activity is 49/1000 hours of riding. The rate when motorcycle riding is merely 14/1000 hours. As a result of this potential for injury, horseback riding has been identified as a higher-risk activity than automobile racing, motorcycle riding, football, and skiing, and at least as dangerous as rugby. Equestrian riding also is considered to have the highest mortality of all sports, with an annual death rate of 1 per 1 million population. This reality is not surprising because a horse weighs up to 500 kg, moves at a speed of 65 km/h, elevates the rider 3 meters above the ground, and kicks with a force of nearly 1 ton. 

So food for thought, seems a bit prehistoric not to wear a helmet but that's not my remit and to each their own.


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## kirstyhen (8 February 2011)

ArcticFox said:



			Don't go against people on the HHO forum as you'll get beaten into submission!!! (joke) 

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But with more than a grain of truth! Poor PS, taking the heat for the entire Hatless Dressage fraternity!  

Reading this thread has brought something home to me though. My Brother died when I was 17 and I saw what it did to my Parents. I hope that I never cause them that kind of stress, but can't live my life not taking any risks. What I can do is minimise the risk where ever possible, and that means Hat on bonce at all times when hooves may fly in my direction!


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## Weezy (8 February 2011)

SusieT said:



			Weezy (and others-just havent seen any others post about being hatless w/ kids). You have kids-yes? 
You would have them grow up without you because you fancied feeling the wind in your hair as you rode?
		
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Yes I do have children.  And no, the thought of them growing up without me is horrible.  However, that could happen because I got cancer, or I was run over, or had a car accident, or I was shot by a marauding gun man...

However, I cannot even tell you the last time I rode without a hat...I lie, it was last summer for about 2 mins when I jumped on a 14.2hh pony to show his rider how to push him into a contact.  

I would be lying if I said I never thought about having an accident out hunting when wearing my Patey, because I have.  And yes, I am 100% it seems utterly ridiculous that I wear a helmet that is PAS standard to plod around, SJ and school, but I wear a Patey to go galloping and jumping.  I will hold my hands up, it is vanity, it must be, as I am very H&S conscious the rest of the time.  HOWEVER, if you look at the hats we all used to wear, or not, they were made of a thin layer of cork, some fibreglass and velvet....just because they had a chin strap, usually made of elastic, they were not safer than a Patey.  I would deffo say that my Patey is safer than a lot of hats readers of this forum are wearing - because most people wear old or misfitting hats that will not protect them if they fall.

Apart from one other, who is a member on here, I am the only person I know at my yard who rides everyday in a hat that is up to standard security wise - most everyone I know rides in a hat that is over 3 years old and that, to me, is very dangerous.

Confused?!


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## kerilli (8 February 2011)

i've seen the effect on parents of their children dying, too. 2 years after leaving school, a few of my year were killed in various, separate, accidents.  it BROKE their parents, particularly the mums. the grief, even years later, was palpable.
my mum had to see me in the ICU once. it didn't do her much good...     not a head injury fwiw, and yes, i was wearing a hat.
i woke up in hospital another time, after severe concussion when a pony flipped over backwards with me. was wearing a good hat, luckily.
reasons not to wear a hat?
ummm. it's cooler - but, the new vented hats are supposed to be very good. not tried one yet personally.
it's 'cool' - you look more glamorous, more recognisable. hmm. unconscious and drooling out of the side of your mouth in the ICU... not so cool, by comparison.
you don't get 'hat hair'. hey, it's a badge of honour, isn't it?   

anomaly, those are very interesting statistics, thankyou.
reminds me of the one about the number of soldiers admitted with head injuries rising significantly after the army started issuing helmets. contradictory? no... think about it...


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## cloudandmatrix (8 February 2011)

Another very good point kerilli- what about the family who have to pick up the pieces?
Of course, this could happen anyway, but why increase the risk?


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## spookypony (8 February 2011)

Kokopelli said:



			Anti-hat wearers would say no to this? 
http://www.chanel.com/fashion/8-sport-horse-riding-helmet-of-aluminum-and-composite-for-any-additional-information-please-contact-your-chanel-boutique-23,5#8-sport-horse-riding-helmet-of-aluminum-and-composite-for-any-additional-information-please-contact-your-chanel-boutique-23,5

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OMG  I don't even know what to think! They make a short stick too, apparently, if you click on next...but not really bling enough for Dressage Divas?


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## SusieT (8 February 2011)

To me, wearing a Patey is as good as nothing. 
You take steps in your life to reduce risk, that a mother is willing to say, actually, I would rather look a certain way than reduce the risk is shocking to me.
Why does other peoples hats possibly (very much possibly.. as you have no idea whether it is or not) being more dangerous than yours somehow make your hat ok?
Great that yuo ride in a good hat most of the time, very odd as to why you do that and don't ride in a patey all the time then??


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## Ginn (8 February 2011)

Just to toss another point for consideration into the debate (and yes, I am very much playing devils advocate)...

I HAVE had a fall where wearing a hat very nearly broke my neck - had it been a fixed peak hat then that would have almost certainly been the outcome. I got seriously decked, headfirst into the ground, off a 12hh neckless pony who was 100% determined I was coming off by all means necessary. I landed on my forehead, face down, with my neck completely hyper-extended to the extent that my feet were on the ground in front of my head. My head had "fixed" in position by the brim of my hat and the downward force of the weight of my head and according to my friend who witnessed the whole thing I was very lucky that before I hit the ground my very slippy/shiny/slightly-too-big hat silk had slipped down and forward and provided just enough "slip" that it enabled my head to ping back the right way seconds after hitting the ground. 

Fortunately I walked away with a seriously bad whiplash and still think it was one of the scariest moments of my life, lying on the floor absolutely convinced my neck was about to break and I was going to be left paralysed or worse had I broken my dens..... Had I been wearing a fixed peak then there is no way my neck position would have corrected and resulting force placed on my neck would have almost certainly resulted in reversible spinal damage or worse.

So while in 99.9% of incidences the argument of "a hat can do no harm but it may save your life" _may_ be considered valid there will still be the occasional incidence where it will not. Incidently, if I ever get on anything which I fear is likely to launch me headfirst into the ground or when I am jumping I will NEVER wear a fixed peak hat and always have a relatively loose or slippy silk on. My fixed peak velvet it reserved strictly for the dressage arena...


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## diggerbez (8 February 2011)

its slightly ironic that after reading all that i have a headache 

my view on it is that its up to the individual. personally i always wear a hat to ride in- but then i am a complete clutz generally (nearly broke 2x ankles this morning going to work ) and my horse is super sharp and spooky so get dumped a fair bit by him- you'd be mental to ride him without a hat  I broke my hat last year getting bucked off onto concrete and landing headfirst- i had a banging headache for 2 weeks, was convinced that i had brain damage but the hospital wouldn't scan it 

But...i never wear a hat to do other things e.g. clipping, loading, turning out etc and TBH am probably just as likely to get a boot in the head doing this as i am to fall off and hit my head. 

yes there is the argument that if you fall off and die etc....but i am sure that hatless people know this but it is a risk they choose to take... same way that i don't wear a BP to show jump- its a risk i am prepared to take...


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## coreteam1 (9 February 2011)

Prince33Sp4rkle said:



			certainly more horses dropping for no reason than i thought, that i will admit.


ill ask again -where does it end? law to wear hats whilst clipping?loading?turning out?bringing in?grooming? have seen/heard about far more accidents/injuries caused by the first two than by hatless flatowork, and i refuse to believe that every single person on this thread wears a hat for clipping and loading!
		
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i can only imagine how well calling a larger person stupid would go down!    lol

I don't wear a hat for clipping (?) or loading?  Certainly wouldn't load 'my own' horse wearing a hat, how strange lol  
Now I have been know to forget I've got my hat on, drive my car home via the shop for milk  
It's a bit like the High Viss thing (are they called that?) sorry but no, I don't do any road work where we are but if I did I WOULD NOT be wearing a high Viss YUK!!!  

Now I will be blasted by all the horsey high vis gearers (sorry ) 
It's all about 'personal' choice


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## coreteam1 (9 February 2011)

diggerbez said:



			its slightly ironic that after reading all that i have a headache 

But...i never wear a hat to do other things e.g. clipping, loading, turning out etc and TBH am probably just as likely to get a boot in the head doing this as i am to fall off and hit my head. 

QUOTE]

I think we are more likely to get broken feet than a boot in the head  and do we all wear steel toe caps!!!  NO!!  I've been known to trot down the path with my horse in tow, with some Jack Wills Flip Flops, now thats safety wear!! lol 

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## ArcticFox (9 February 2011)

does the chanel hat not just look like a GPA hat with the logo changed?  and a sticker on the vent?  I bet its mega bucks!


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## Weezy (9 February 2011)

janey said:



			It's a bit like the High Viss thing (are they called that?) sorry but no, I don't do any road work where we are but if I did I WOULD NOT be wearing a high Viss YUK!!!  

Now I will be blasted by all the horsey high vis gearers (sorry ) 
It's all about 'personal' choice 

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It certainly is personal choice, but you see not wearing High Viz when riding on the road because it is yuck is, to me, totally stupid!  Cars are high speed killing objects, and if you can give yourself and your horse an extra 3 seconds to be seen, then hell, it is worth looking silly for, and only fair on the poor motorist who may come around a corner and slam into you because you are in the shadows.  As a car driver who lives in a rural area, it is scary how invisible horses and riders can be riding along leafy lanes.

SusieT - others' hats do not have any bearing on my choices, I was merely pointing out that no one ever has a problem with seeing someone wearing a hat, when the hat in question may be 20 years old, been dropped 20 times and doesn't fit the rider....but it is OK as they have a hat on.  

The Patey issue is not one that sits brilliantly with me, as I said.  And I questioned whether it was vanity as I couldn't give you another, immediate answer.  Having slept on it I realise I should have put the word tradition in there too.  I wouldn't advocate that people wear Patey hats, absolutely not, but it IS what I do, and I do risk assess and have been known to go out with a skull hat firmly on my head instead.

So there you go, as I said before - confused?!  I am, but I ride maybe 10 times a year in my Patey, and the rest of the time in a PAS helmet.


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## rowy (9 February 2011)

janey said:



			It's a bit like the High Viss thing (are they called that?) sorry but no, I don't do any road work where we are but if I did I WOULD NOT be wearing a high Viss YUK!!!  

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I used to think this! My mum used to make me wear it all the time even when it was sunny and she used to make me wear hi vis that doesnt match !!!! :O or putting a pink breastplate on when i was wearing a red coat, sorry thats just wrong 

BUT I have been recently doing my ride and road safety and I got a book about it to learn and just in the front cover is the 2 most disturibing pictures I have ever seen. 2 photos of horses splat on the road and cars wrecked. I wear Hi-Vis for my horse as well as myself because I would be devestated if a car was to run over my horse! they just mean too much to me!  
But I dont let my mum put mismatching hi vis on anymore! lol I have a yellow set and a seperate pink set and need to get a orange set now 

Oh and back onto the hat debate. I do equine sports science to which one of the modules is behaviour. I think we forget sometimes that we are sitting on a wild animal with its OWN brain. We are never going to be able to "make" the horse do something it doesnt want to do or be able to tell what the horse is going to do at all times. Its just like people, every now and again someone you know well does something you wouldnt of expected them to do. That is why there are quite a few non-horsey people that refuse to ride or think we are stupid for horse riding because getting on a horse is a risk every time. no matter if you have owned the horse for 1 year or 20 years  theres always going to be a risk. Granted on a horse you have owned 20 years and has never done anything, the risk is going to be significantly lower than one you have owned just one year but it is still there. 

I think arguing over this is funny though. Its like each hat wearing person wants to bring up the one argument that will break a non-hat wearing person into wearing a hat at all times. I dont think hat wearers are doing it out of spite or anything, I think its more like a competition.... who can get a non-hat wearer to finally say they will wear a hat and that they are wrong is the winner. its like it in all arguments you have with ur fam or something. its gonna keep going until somebody admits they are wrong. Dont think its gonna happen though, especially on a internet forum where nobody really knows each other....


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## rowy (9 February 2011)

oh and i dont wear a hat clipping my 17 year old tb but prob will wear one clipping my rising 4 year old for first time end of this year. Also, i do wear a hat leading my 3 year old on the roads or for a long walk though i dont wear one leading 2 year old exmoor as shes too small to reach my head, though i do wear one leading her on the roads. I dont wear one loading generally. I should really though.


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## Kat (9 February 2011)

The reason we don't all wear steel toe caps is that they are actually very unsafe around horses. 

Steel toe caps aren't designed to cope with the type of pressure you get from a shod horse standing on your foot. If this happens there is a significant chance that the steel toe cap will bend and mis-shape, and either crush or sever your toes, causing worse injuries than you would have received wearing tough leather boots. Steel toe caps are designed to protect against hazards like a brick being dropped on your foot, not a horse standing on it. There have been attempts to design a suitable protective boots with a toe compartment rather than a toe cap, and there are a few on the market, if you are tempted then check they are designed for work around horses and have a D shaped compartment not just a cap. 

Although safety equipment is important, it should be the correct safety equipment designed for the job. Safety equipment is designed for a purpose and using it incorrectly or in the wrong circumstances can actually INCREASE risks.


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## kerilli (9 February 2011)

KristmasKatt said:



			The reason we don't all wear steel toe caps is that they are actually very unsafe around horses. 

Steel toe caps aren't designed to cope with the type of pressure you get from a shod horse standing on your foot. If this happens there is a significant chance that the steel toe cap will bend and mis-shape, and either crush or sever your toes, causing worse injuries than you would have received wearing tough leather boots. Steel toe caps are designed to protect against hazards like a brick being dropped on your foot, not a horse standing on it. There have been attempts to design a suitable protective boots with a toe compartment rather than a toe cap, and there are a few on the market, if you are tempted then check they are designed for work around horses and have a D shaped compartment not just a cap. 

Although safety equipment is important, it should be the correct safety equipment designed for the job. Safety equipment is designed for a purpose and using it incorrectly or in the wrong circumstances can actually INCREASE risks.
		
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yes, but there are safety boots out there that are proof against a ten tonne block of metal being dropped on them in a lab, i'm pretty sure a horse's hoof couldn't exert that much downwards force in any possible circumstances. the old tale about someone getting their toes cut off by a steel-toe-capped boot... hmmm, not sure i believe that.
i've seen someone get thoroughly trodden on by a studded-up very large event horse. she just laughed and shoved him off her foot, as her steel-toe-capped boot did its job...


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## Kat (9 February 2011)

The BSI have different safety standards for different boots designed for use in different circumstances. Dropping a heavy object from a height is different to having a horse stand on you, the pressure is applied differently. 

The boots safe to use around horses have a closed compartment that goes right around the foot rather than just a cap which can be pushed down into the toes.


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## kerilli (9 February 2011)

well, okay, except the ones that protected the foot in the incident i witnessed, were just toe-capped, not a closed compartment, and i doubt a worse standing-on-foot-scenario could be set up...


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## kirstyl (9 February 2011)

kerilli said:



			where did any of us say anything at all about Health and Safety, the litigation culture, etc etc?
i'm for free choice too. if i had children, i'd allow them go through grids without stirrups and reins, play bareback cowboys and indians, all the things i did (with a hat on, fwiw! mother made me wear one of those hideous JOFA things). but we're talking about adult riders (who, however you look at it, are bigger, heavier, therefore fall harder - pure physics - and whose bones aren't as bendy...!) falling from higher up on big powerful comp horses, not kids on ponies. i had countless falls as a kid and never hurt myself. wish i was still that light and bendy!
		
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Kerilli, your ref to Jofa hats just made me laugh out loud!! Bet your ears were warm though...


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## kerilli (9 February 2011)

kirstyl said:



			Kerilli, your ref to Jofa hats just made me laugh out loud!! Bet your ears were warm though...
		
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they were hideous. made by Volvo iirc. my mother even made me take it on hols to Spain to ride there in it. ffs. it was BAKING. my brain fried. explains a lot, actually...


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## GreyCoast (9 February 2011)

Nobody ever brings up those kids that get tossed around in vaulting.  And adults.  Impressive, lovely to watch, but I'm guessing not the safest.

I try not to join these threads, but I'm running on too little sleep to resist. 

I believe habits are paramount to this discussion.  I wear a hat most of the time, always for riding, always for loading, 98% of the time for grooming.  Habit.  Ask me to wear a body protector, I'll decline.  That's not one of my habits.  Academically I know about reducing risk and that my horse may have a rotational fall and squash me at any time because a butterfly flapped its wings in Brazil.  But in reality, I've never really worn one and the whole thing seems more effort than its risk/return.  It only takes a few seconds to put on too, but the whole thing is just odd to me.  And the bulk of the people I know are the same.

Some people change their habits.  Most of the people I know who started to wear body protectors are in the habit of being more safety conscious than average, it is their habit to reduce all risks, just not to the point of taking up knitting instead.  Some will change through experience.  I'll defend my right to not wear a BP as PS is defending her right to not wear a hat.

The way to make hat riding the norm is for parents to take responsibility of their children, make hat/BP/high vis wearing a habit for the next generation.  The parents on H&H seem to do it already.  I have no right to tell little Sophie what to do, I'm not her parent, I'm not responsible for her as a random bystander. And nor is Edward Gal, Rodrigo Pessoa or Clayton Fredericks.  Little Sophie's parents are responsible for making it Little Sophie's habit to wear a hat at all times.  For those of us who always wear a hat, we speak of feeling weird without one.  Little Sophie and her friends will be the same.  Derailing PS's picture threads, or calling all non-hat wearers daft and tax burdens isn't going to change anything.


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## Neigh Botha (9 February 2011)

I don't normally post much however this debate has been very interesting.

Reading the posts (not all I must admit as very long debate), I still cannot see a solid argument for not wearing a hat whilst riding however in saying this I do believe each to their own and it is your own decision as long as you are not putting anyone else at risk.

A point I'd like to make though is what about protection on our horses? There are lots of us out there that boot, bandage and gadget up in the name of so called safety and injury prevention but then ride around with no hat. To me that contradicts any argument against them not wearing one. What about other aspects like walking our dogs, most of us put leads on them near busy roads, not because we think our dogs will run out head on to a car but 'just in case'... food for thought!?

We all are aware riding is a risk sport and I have been bucked and bronced on many occasions managing to stay on but was walking around the school when the horse spooked, she went one way and I went the other and I managed to tear the ligament in my knee. All horses are unpredictable whether we like to think they are 'bombproof' or not. Yes, we could then argue that I should be wearing knee protection but how far do we take it?


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## kerilli (9 February 2011)

huh, it won't let me quote. 
re: "yes, we could then argue that i should be wearing knee protection but how far do we take it?"
isn't it a case, as with the horse, of protecting the most vulnerable part(s)? i protect my horse's front tendons and heels, e.g. i won't jump a horse without tendon guards and overreach boots. not so worried about the hindlegs because the chances of them being struck from behind are zero, so they go naked... same with myself, i protect the most important part.
i've sustained a serious knee injury twice now. if those had been serious head injuries, i wouldn't be sitting here. i'd be lying on the couch drooling, if i was lucky, i guess. or unlucky, depending on how you look at it...
it's shocking that most riders think nothing of spending hundreds of pounds on a nice pair of leather boots, and perhaps thousands on a saddle, but begrudge £100 every 3 years for a good hat...  let alone using it!  

GreyCoast, that's a very very good point about habits, i hadn't thought of that. must admit, i now wear a bp a LOT more at home on the lively ones, and have been glad of it more than once. i'm no novice either...  
the thing is, parents may be trying hard to push their children to stick their hat on, but if their idols, and/or other riders at the yard, don't, perhaps the children will bin the hat the moment mum's out of view... cos, after all, it's not "cool", and children and/or teens are probably the most likely to feel invincible up there...


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## jumptoit (9 February 2011)

rowy said:



			Oh and back onto the hat debate. I do equine sports science to which one of the modules is behaviour. I think we forget sometimes that we are sitting on a wild animal with its OWN brain. We are never going to be able to "make" the horse do something it doesnt want to do or be able to tell what the horse is going to do at all times. Its just like people, every now and again someone you know well does something you wouldnt of expected them to do. That is why there are quite a few non-horsey people that refuse to ride or think we are stupid for horse riding because getting on a horse is a risk every time. no matter if you have owned the horse for 1 year or 20 years  theres always going to be a risk. Granted on a horse you have owned 20 years and has never done anything, the risk is going to be significantly lower than one you have owned just one year but it is still there.
		
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Imho the brain point has two sides, my brother does quite a bit of downhill mountain biking and is constantly telling me that riding is more dangerous but the way I see it is the bike has no brain so if you are heading towards a tree as you've made a mistake that's it whereas I would expect most horses would save themselves, and consequently also you, by deciding to avoid the tree. So yes horses can think for themselves but equally they are unlikely to put themselves in a position of danger.


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## rebmw (9 February 2011)

rowy said:



			I think arguing over this is funny though. Its like each hat wearing person wants to bring up the one argument that will break a non-hat wearing person into wearing a hat at all times. I dont think hat wearers are doing it out of spite or anything, I think its more like a competition.... who can get a non-hat wearer to finally say they will wear a hat and that they are wrong is the winner. its like it in all arguments you have with ur fam or something. its gonna keep going until somebody admits they are wrong. Dont think its gonna happen though, especially on a internet forum where nobody really knows each other....
		
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I'm afraid i disagree with this^

I personally, and I'm sure most of the others on here, posted on this subject, not to win a competition in turning someones opinion around but to merely give a couple of examples that may or may not give someone a reason to stop and think.

Isn't that how evolution works? A species changes and adapts due to events that have happened in the past?


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## Booboos (9 February 2011)

rebmw said:



			I'm afraid i disagree with this^

I personally, and I'm sure most of the others on here, posted on this subject, not to win a competition in turning someones opinion around but to merely give a couple of examples that may or may not give someone a reason to stop and think.

Isn't that how evolution works? A species changes and adapts due to events that have happened in the past?
		
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I have to second that. I for one started wearing a hat while handling after reading a thread on here, two weeks later a horse reared and hit me over the head. I don't know why I didn't wear a hat before that, but someone asking that very question on the thread made me re-examine my habits and develp better ones, so thank you!


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## rowy (9 February 2011)

rebmw said:



			I'm afraid i disagree with this^

I personally, and I'm sure most of the others on here, posted on this subject, not to win a competition in turning someones opinion around but to merely give a couple of examples that may or may not give someone a reason to stop and think.

Isn't that how evolution works? A species changes and adapts due to events that have happened in the past?
		
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I'm sorry I should have phrased it differently. I dont mean a competition as such but in your heart of hearts you must hope that it is your own experience of a matter to do with falling off and how you could have injured yourself if not wearing a hat that sways another person who doesnt wear a hat. Or yours along with a collection of others who also back up your own storys. 
I dont think its something bad. I think its nice that so many people care so much about those who dont wear hats.


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## fidleyspromise (9 February 2011)

Its taken a couple if days to read through this thread.  Personally I always wearf a hat - habbit.
I don't wear a BP as it used to be habbit and I now have none to fit and I would only wear it XC.  To each their own regarding their safety gear.  It's them and their horse and if they have assessed the risk, then no-one will get them to change their minds until something happens.  

My own hat is 1 1/2 yrs old - but what is with the 3 yrs that people have mentioned regarding hats??


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## kerilli (9 February 2011)

mishaspey, apparently the polystyrene foam degrades with age (and use? i don't know) so it's best to replace after 3 years.
actually, i'd like to know if it's purely age... my comp HS1 lives in the lorry and has had about 1/100th the usage of my yard HS1... and definitely hasn't ever been dropped, fallen off onto, etc. Anyone, is it purely age or wear and tear degeneration of the foam that we're worried about? if the former, maybe new hats should have a manufacture date to the month... do they? some tack shops may have slow turnover of certain makes and sizes, using up valuable time in the life of a hat!


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## SpottedCat (9 February 2011)

Kerilli, whilst I don't have the exact answer to your question, I _do_ know UV light degrades hats - hence many now coming in a hat bag and it being a very stupid idea to keep your hat on the rear shelf of the car/hung up by the stable rather than in the tack room. 

I'd always heard 5 years for hats unless an impact occurs.


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## fidleyspromise (9 February 2011)

Thanks Kerilli and Spotted Cat - in my 16 years of riding I have never heard this.  Makes you wonder because unless there's been an accident, then RS hats (at ones I've been to) aren't replaced.  Or unless those Hats become defunct and safety specs change. i.e the PAS015.


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## photo_jo (9 February 2011)

mishaspey said:



			Thanks Kerilli and Spotted Cat - in my 16 years of riding I have never heard this.  Makes you wonder because unless there's been an accident, then RS hats (at ones I've been to) aren't replaced.  Or unless those Hats become defunct and safety specs change. i.e the PAS015.
		
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And I was just in the process of replying that I don't care what anyone says but I am Not going to wear my cat out riding


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## applecart14 (9 February 2011)

kerilli said:



http://www.riders4helmets.com/?p=2116

Debbie McDonald (U.S. Olympic rider) got bronc'd off a young dr horse onto her head, and escaped with concussion, facial lacerations and whiplash.
Ever since Courtney King-Dye incurred such terrible head injuries DM has been wearing a hat every time, and believes her hat saved her life.

so... please, stick your hats on, guys. it's a no-brainer. leave the vegetables for supper...  

Click to expand...

People are totally barmy if they don't wear hats imho.  I got thrown from a horse many years ago, and ended up with serious concussion. It had a massive impact on my life at the time, and I still struggle with day to day things.  I ended up blue light job to the hospital for a CT scan as they thought I'd a bleed in my brain, luckily I hadn't.  I was the night in intensive care and four days in a hospital for observation following that.  I had a hat on a fell in a sand school.  I know a fellow livery who borrowed someone's hat as she'd forgotten hers, got thrown against the kerb whilst riding her sons horse, suffered a brain bleed and goodness knows what else and despite brain surgery sadly died.  She left two young lads and her husband.  Very sad.

Moral of the story, always wear a properly fitted hat.  I *wouldn't *be here now if I'd not had my hat on and M**** would most likely *still be here* now if she'd have had her own hat on.


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## tricksibell85 (10 February 2011)

I stupidly pottered up to our school with a hat on...but not my riding hat.

My YO ran up shouting at me getting me to replace it even with it being only flat work.  It annoys me that people go on about with horse even know they know how dangerous horses are but dont wear hats....makes me feel like whatever and ur choice"!!!!!!

c


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## charlie76 (10 February 2011)

quick question- all those that rant about non hat wearers costing tax payers money- how many smoke??? Just as much risk of killing yourselves with that and tax payers will still have to pay for your treatment.
be honest now....


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## Booboos (10 February 2011)

I don't like the "you are costing the NHS money by your riding" argument as it generilises to almost any activity/lifestyle and the NHS is supposed to treat according to need, not desert, but as an aside, smokers actually save the state money. Not only do they pay special taxes which more than cover their health care costs, they also die younger of fairly devastating diseases, rather than incurring pensions, social security costs and crippling NHS old age costs! It's quite ironic this fact totally gets lost in the discussion really!

OK, sorry for the aside.


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## nononsense (5 September 2011)

Saratoga said:



			Be interesting to find out if all those who fully support wearing a hat at all times also wear a hard hat with tails, and a fully harnessed hat instead of a beagler. If safety it paramount, top hats and beaglers should also be banned.
		
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Hi Im new here so please be gentle! I would just like to ask you, is that you riding with a beagler/patey hat doing dressage? If it is, and if you are a supporter of the new rules, why didnt you use your crash hat in the dressage phase? It has never been against the rules to wear one. Just asking out of interest.


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## nononsense (5 September 2011)

Paladine said:



			As an American affected by this rule . . . I am all for personal choice.  

So, if someone breaks a rib in a fall, will we also have to wear body protectors?  There is an element of danger to any horse sport that will never be eliminated.

I'm not anti-helmet- I am very thankful for it when I fell off a couple weeks ago.

I think it's a knee jerk reaction personally.  Most people who wear hunt caps in the ring do not wear helmets at home, IMO.  So I don't think making helmets mandatory in the show ring will make a difference at home- where the majority of accidents occur.  

I'm all for making the Jrs wear them, but I think the rest of us should have a say.  Many have already gone and done it in the past year to make a statement for Courtney (who is not a helmet nazi, btw), but to make it a national rule is a bit overboard, when there are many pressing issues like safer XC and safer riding and instruction.
		
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Totally agree! Top hats will not be banned here as the classes they are worn in comeunder FEI rules. Our trainers ride without hats at home, the same as Courtney did. I wear a hat at home but sometimes when its hot go without, my choice.


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## Saratoga (6 September 2011)

nononsense said:



			Hi Im new here so please be gentle! I would just like to ask you, is that you riding with a beagler/patey hat doing dressage? If it is, and if you are a supporter of the new rules, why didnt you use your crash hat in the dressage phase? It has never been against the rules to wear one. Just asking out of interest. 

Click to expand...

Hi :wavey:

Yes I do wear a beagler, I am not a supported of the new rules. Just asking the question to those that preach about always wearing a hat, if they would opt for a safety harness with a tails jacket.


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## kerilli (6 September 2011)

Saratoga said:



			Hi :wavey:

Yes I do wear a beagler, I am not a supported of the new rules. Just asking the question to those that preach about always wearing a hat, if they would opt for a safety harness with a tails jacket.
		
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Yes, I would now. Absolutely, 100%. I think the two look good together. The 'circus ringmaster' look is not really steeped in dressage history (my trainer remembers when it was introduced, and why!), it's only habit that makes us think it looks good.
I didn't wear a crash cap with tails before, probably because the two horses I have gotten to top-hat-and-tails wearing level were absolutely obedient and reliable, NEVER bucked or reared. I felt totally safe on them. I did flatwork at home on them hatless. I always wore a crash skull for jumping and hacking on the roads, but not for flatwork.
Courtney's fall has taught me that however good you think you are (and no way am I in her league) a stupid life-destroying trip can happen even on the flat.


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## Saratoga (6 September 2011)

That's good to hear Kerilli. I have no problem with people wanting to wear safety hats at all times, but I do find the inconsistency of some people frustrating (those who won't get on a horse without a hat and preach to others that do, but will happily ride in a beagler or top hat to look the part).


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## vineyridge (7 September 2011)

there was a good bit of comment at Burghley and in the Burghley threads about North American riders and their helmets in dressage.  Most was quite negative.  North Americans were the ONLY riders who wore helmets, even though it's optional and y'all could have.  

There was also some speculation that the dressage judges MIGHT have unconsciously penalized helmet wearers, as so much of dressage is based on the picture presented.


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## Booboos (7 September 2011)

I'm nowhere near the tails/top hat level, but if I ever make it I will wear tails and proper hard hat.


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## SpottedCat (7 September 2011)

vineyridge said:



			There was also some speculation that the dressage judges MIGHT have unconsciously penalized helmet wearers, as so much of dressage is based on the picture presented.
		
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I doubt this would happen - from personal experience I wrote for one of the dressage judges at Aldon CCI* (I know a much lower level, but still!) and the only rider to come in wearing a beagler and normal jacket (as opposed to top hat and tails) led the dressage that year. And it was a rider the judge was very open to me about disliking, but as they said 'they just won't let me take marks away from them' - referring to the rider's skill in presenting a good test.


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## leflynn (7 September 2011)

Booboos said:



			I'm nowhere near the tails/top hat level, but if I ever make it I will wear tails and proper hard hat.
		
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You could always have one of those new fangled top hat proper hard hat things they brought out


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## Weatherford (8 September 2011)

gnubee said:



			Are dressage and rodeo regulated by some kind of overarching authority in the US, or are they completely separate? Seems weird to me that one country can have a sport with minimal falling off risk (such as dressage) with compulsory hats, but no mention of them for sports where falling off is pretty much inevitable (bronc/bull riding). 

I'm quite in favour of the compulsory protective hats in competition, but the juxtaposition of the two sports in the country seems insane.
		
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Separate entities. Totally. 

Rodeos are beginning to make helmets and body protectors recommended if not mandatory. They are mandatory for riders on the college/university circuit, and many rodeo riders wear them anyway. 

IMHO, you are foolish not to!!


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## dressage_diva (8 September 2011)

Booboos said:



			I'm nowhere near the tails/top hat level, but if I ever make it I will wear tails and proper hard hat.
		
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Good to hear I won't be the only one then (though I have a very long way to go before I'm riding at that level!!!).


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## smiffyimp (8 September 2011)

As I understand 200 BD peeps voted and 40% said it should be personal choice. I dont do BD and alwys wear my bonnet (although never used to - im getting old and sensible ) but the BD folks on my yard are not happy about being forced. I have to admit to finding their reactions quite funny!


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## zoon (8 September 2011)

I stopped reading every post when it turned into PS vs the world - but just wanted to point this out to those saying a safe top hat should be made - 
http://www.horseandcountry.tv/news/2011/04/15/safety-top-hat-launched-dressage-riders


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## kdanaford (23 December 2011)

Tinselface said:



			Love this - so so true.

I admit to riding with no hat in the past (actually bareback and in a headcollar  )
		
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I did this without the headcollar  but on a 30 yo horse i had been riding all my life


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## MandyMoo (23 December 2011)

Baggybreeches said:



			Think you are too good to need a helmet? WRONG. The better you ride the harder you fall. Beginners fall off. Good riders get launched  Jean White.

I totally agree with this, as someone whose falling off ratio goes up as my horses get fitter!
		
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YES. love this quote. so true.



dibbin said:



			I need a protective tacking up hat. I've (more than once, I might add) punched myself in the face when my hand's slipped off a girth strap when I'm putting the saddle on. Ouchy 

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ouch!! poor you! on this note, i think i need a hat whilst tacking up or changing girths... i have (on numerous occasions) managed to punch myself in the face as my hands have slipped  oops!!



Paladine said:



			As an American affected by this rule . . . I am all for personal choice.  

So, if someone breaks a rib in a fall, will we also have to wear body protectors?  There is an element of danger to any horse sport that will never be eliminated.

I'm not anti-helmet- I am very thankful for it when I fell off a couple weeks ago.

I think it's a knee jerk reaction personally.  Most people who wear hunt caps in the ring do not wear helmets at home, IMO.  So I don't think making helmets mandatory in the show ring will make a difference at home- where the majority of accidents occur.  

I'm all for making the Jrs wear them, but I think the rest of us should have a say.  Many have already gone and done it in the past year to make a statement for Courtney (who is not a helmet nazi, btw), but to make it a national rule is a bit overboard, when there are many pressing issues like safer XC and safer riding and instruction.
		
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yes, agree on you that juniors should DEFINITELY wear hats. but i also think adults should aswell, not wearing a hat is stupid.. as for your point about body protectors, yes they prevent paralysis, but we're talking about hats, which prevent death - but then again, i do agree with 'each to their own'.. if you're stupid enough to not wear a helmet, then fair play!

as for 'smartness' - i actually think a harnessed hat looks smarter than beaglers (i may be in a minority here!! but i have never warmed to the beagler look. i think a charles owen hat looks lovely IMO!!


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## dressagelove (23 December 2011)

Grrr. just wrote a whole reply then deleted the damn thing.

The thing I find with riders refusing to wear a hat, is they have no reason. Why?! Don't shout the 'its personal choice' card at me, its so unoriginal, but it is true... however,  I don't care if you put your head in danger. What gets me, is they dont have a reason. Dont tell me that they are uncomfortable / hot / sweaty. The technology we have with hats now; they are breathable / you can get made to measure ones etc. and not wanting to mes up your hair?? This is your life we are talking about. I really do believe that many people don't want to wear hats because they think they look cool, which imo is a pathetic reason for not wearing one. They obviously are deluded, maybe a bump the head would help! 

Someone mentioned earlier about if we break a rib then shouldnt we all wear body protectors? Well no, that is not a valid point. Yes, horse riding is a rish sport, it always will be, but it is about minimising those risks. Falling off and breaking a rib, or a leg is unlikely to be life threatening. Falling on your head has the potential to kill you.

Anyway, I truly believe people who dont wear hats will never change their opinion unless they have a close call / run in close to home where they realise what they are doing. As i said, I dont really care whether they do or not. But I do find I have less of an opinion who don't wear hats.


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## dressagecrazy (23 December 2011)

I had a fall last Sunday, it was on the flat whilst schooling my big WB. He had had his field changed a week before & I totally forgot what grass does to him even this time of year.

I should of realised as he was being a sod turning out & bringing in, anyway he spooked whipped round on me & then turned into a rodeo horse. On getting to the fence at the other side of the arena he then did another 90 degree tun I came off right into the fence.

I ended up with paramedics, ambulances the lot, luckily I haven't broke anything but I did recieve a head injury.
I WAS wearing my hat a Uvex, the hat is trashed & I have black eyes, swollen face & still can't brush or wash my hair getting on for a week later.

I'm thankful for the hat but I will soon be investing in a PROtector. It just isn't worth going without a hat & even though I only changed my ways of hat wearing this year I've already had my life saved even though I look hideous.

Please all think about wearing hats, we all think we are good riders & it will never happen to you. But freak accidents happen even on horses we know inside out, I would be either dead or drinking out of tubes now if I hadn't worn a hat.


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## kerilli (23 December 2011)

eeeek dressagecrazy, very glad to hear you're okay, if not terribly attractive for a little while! glad to hear your hat did its job.
the thing with the wbs in particular i think is that all that amazing power and athleticism is fantastic when it is working for you, really not great when unleashed against you, whether it's deliberate to get you off or just a horse having fun at the wrong moment.
i think the 'no hats' thing is a total no-brainer, literally.  i mean, Paladine saying it's like telling people to wear a bp... no, a broken rib is very very unlikely to kill you. ditto, say, people not wearing safety boots around horses - hmmm, squashed toes are never going to turn you into a dribbling vegetable needing your mum to wipe your bum for every day of the rest of your life (if she lasts that long)...
it's terrible for the person struggling to regain some kind of life, if they're well enough to do so (look at Courtney King-Dye's vid on youtube if you don't believe me, anyway. she is so courageous, but i bet we cannot begin to imagine the despair and frustration and regret she must feel at times) but if not, for the family, it must be beyond terrible.


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## Booboos (23 December 2011)

Dressagecrazy: ouchie, ouchie, ouchie! That sounds very, very painful and your big lad is a long way to fall off! Poor you! Hope you feel a bit better in time for Christmas!


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## dressage_diva (23 December 2011)

Just incase none of you follow riders4helmets - Isabel Werth wore a customised Uvex hat with tails recently when competing in Frankfurt:

http://www.riders4helmets.com/2011/...en-helmet-in-frankfurt-and-makes-a-statement/
http://www.eurodressage.com/equestr...s-golden-helmet-frankfurt-and-makes-statement

Good picture here:
http://www.pferdemaedchen.net/content/stallgespräch-reithelm-pro-oder-contra

I'm personally not a huge fan of the gold bling, but so so pleased to see a top name setting a good example! I also noticed recently that in a lot of footage of Carl Hester and Charlotte Dujardin schooling at home they *always* have a hat on which is good to see too.


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## charlie55 (23 December 2011)

9 times out of 10 people will not change their thinking until something happens to them or someone close to them! No dout if something was to happen to PS (really hope it doesnt) then im sure she will start to wear a hat at all times of riding, but its her choice, weather others think its wrong or not. Im always telling my other half to wear a hat, but he will not, he doesnt ride but he is a farrier and has been kicked in the head badly twice!! Its a very dangerous job but farriers just dont wear a hat and never will!!  

I have always clipped the horses at my yard, (62 horses) ive also gone to other yards and clipped horses there, 5 weeks ago, i went in to clip a horse i have done many times, started at the shoulder like always and all of a sudden out of no where he turned hes bum and still to this day i dont know how it was possible as i was by hes shoulder but he kicked me straight in the guts, i flew across the stable, hit the wall and the pain was unbelievable, i couldnt breathe or move, i had a huge bruise and for days just standing up was so so painful. Now, i clip my own horse and will not clip any other horse, not even if they are 30 years old and crippled to the point of not being able to pick up a foot. Just to prove my point that things will change when/if something like a freak accident accurs. 

Alot of people at my yard dont wear a hat, but no amount of shouting at them and telling them what could happen will change a thing! So i dont bother!


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## kerilli (23 December 2011)

crikey, charlie55, glad to hear you're okay but that is a nightmare. i've seen someone standing at a horse's head get kicked clean across the stable, until you see/experience it you cannot believe it. the big fluffy teddy bear is SOOOO fast when it wants to be.  
i always wear a helmet for clipping now, i know a few people who've been very badly kicked while clipping (out of the blue by usually angelic horses). an American eventer was kicked a couple of months ago (while clipping) and died v recently from her injuries, iirc.


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## MandyMoo (23 December 2011)

@dressagecrazy

oh ouch  i do hope you're recovering!!!!!! but it just shows, hats are SO important!!

@charlie55

ouch!!!! sounds horrendous!! i myself have been kicked clean accross the stable by a naughty pony... hurts so much! (although mine wasnt as violent as yours! i was definitely winded, and luckily was wearing a hat so didn't injure my head!)


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## nixipixi (12 January 2012)

I can most definitely say yes to hard hats.
Only 5 days ago I came off my 19, yes 19! year old warmblood onto the road.  She is 17hh and completely bronked...arched back, left the floor with all four feet and then bucked. 
Now she does not normally put a foot wrong...ever! And I can only think that this exuberance was due to a combination of high winds, her being unable to be turned out in our flooded fields and she is getting fitter...after all she is still competing at affiliated elementary level!  
I landed flat on my back with my head hitting the road very very hard. I heard my hat crunch very loudly. That could have been my skull.
I am very lucky that all I had was a headache and a badly sprained ankle....although I did grab her and ride home so maybe my common sense was a little off 

My point is, no matter who you are, how much of an angel your horse is, where you are or how long you are on your horse for.....your hat should always be the first thing on your priority list 
RIP my poor trusty JTE helmet


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## ace87 (12 January 2012)

I would have died had I not been wearing a hat whilst walking my horse round the arena we'd walked round a billion times before. 

I was lucky, a broken back was what I ended up with - L1,2&3 snapped. Bedridden for what felt like years, then having to learn to walk again at the age of 21 was emotional to say the least. Even whilst we were waiting for the CT scan results and my mother was inconsolable at the thought I might never walk again all I could think about was I AM SO LUCKY oh and I need a new hat!!! 

The Dr's told me time and time again that had I hit a solid fence post at the speed I did, head on as I did, without my Just Toggs Jnr Sjer (RIP hat!) I would not be lying in Trauma, but in the Mortuary, or if I was very lucky HDU. 

I would not and will not ever put vanity before my safety, not just for me but for my partner who would have to look after his vegetablised woman and my parent's who would become my carers too. 


I for one think the Charles Owen 'Fiona' hat is beautiful and would have it over a beagler any day. I truely hope that BD enforce a rule regarding safety helmets at all levels, am encouraged by the new rule re: hats


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## dressage_diva (28 January 2012)

Looks like Charlotte Dujardin was riding a protective hat on Valegro at Palm Beach:

http://www.eurodressage.com/equestr...wdm-palm-beach-grand-prix-personal-best-score (2nd photo down - although it has a different caption, I'm sure that's Valegro!)

And she definitely was in the warm-up:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFR2jLBbYLk
Nice to see a younger rider setting such a good example


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## kirstyl (28 January 2012)

dressage_diva said:



			Looks like Charlotte Dujardin was riding a protective hat on Valegro at Palm Beach:

http://www.eurodressage.com/equestr...wdm-palm-beach-grand-prix-personal-best-score (2nd photo down - although it has a different caption, I'm sure that's Valegro!)

And she definitely was in the warm-up:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFR2jLBbYLk
Nice to see a younger rider setting such a good example 

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Isn't it just. She looked fantastic!


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## ester (28 January 2012)

there's a video here she most certainly was! 

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/competitionnews/388/311254.html


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## Farma (28 January 2012)

dressage_diva said:



			Looks like Charlotte Dujardin was riding a protective hat on Valegro at Palm Beach:

http://www.eurodressage.com/equestr...wdm-palm-beach-grand-prix-personal-best-score (2nd photo down - although it has a different caption, I'm sure that's Valegro!)

And she definitely was in the warm-up:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFR2jLBbYLk
Nice to see a younger rider setting such a good example 

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Thats nice to see her set a good example but when we went to visit we watched her ride at least 7 horses in a row (all pretty sharp) and only wearing a baseball cap


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## Arkmiido (28 January 2012)

combat_claire said:



			I have been avidly reading Melanie Reid's column in the Times and I would recommend any rider to read it:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/melanie_reid/article7106702.ece

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Inspirational... I buy The Times just to read it every week  
Sadly none of us are indestructible. Same goes for carriage driving - serious injuries can occur coming off a carriage  - and it makes me cross to see certain team drivers careering around obstacles with baseball caps on!! Great example to the yoof aspect, guys...


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## zaminda (4 February 2012)

On the 12th of January I had a serious fall. I spent a full day in hospital and was only released after being on a drip. However, I got off lightly, if I hadn't been wearing a hat I wouldn't still be here.  Needless to say I will be buying a replacement!


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## kerilli (4 February 2012)

zaminda said:



			On the 12th of January I had a serious fall. I spent a full day in hospital and was only released after being on a drip. However, I got off lightly, if I hadn't been wearing a hat I wouldn't still be here.  Needless to say I will be buying a replacement!
		
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Very glad to hear that you're okay. Did you see the pic of Valegro going vertical at the Prize Giving at the World Dressage Masters? Proof that any horse can do something totally unexpected at any moment!
New hat shopping is fun, lucky you to still be here to do it...


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## .Redmerl (4 February 2012)

It feels very weird without a hat, I feel very venerable.


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## Shutterbug (4 February 2012)

I know only too well the dangers of having an accident involving my head - I was dragged 60 feet while leading a horse from the ground and after 7 surgeries in 4 years I am all fixed up but still have a cracking scar across my hairline and a bald patch on the back of my head.  I was left with a large hole in my head and was probably only saved by the fact that i was knocked clean out and was dragged like a rag - I broke no bones but the damage to my skin was immense - my arms and chest got it too.  Whenever I meet someone who likes to risk their well being by not wearing a hat I offer to show them a photo of my injury - I wont post one here its very gross and I dont want to upset anyone but lets just say you can see a large area of my skull where the skin was ripped clean off my head.  I get quite mad when I see people riding without a hat, I wouldnt wish what happened to me on anyone - and its not just the effect it had on me - it affected my family, my kids, my OH, my job, my confidence - its taken me years to recover and Im still not fully 100% - I was very very lucky not to die!


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## crabbymare (4 February 2012)

I saw pictures of a stallion parade or gala that a friend took and another dressage person wearing one was Peter Minderhoud, was only a stallion showing but its a start and hopefully more of the top riders will set good examples.


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