# Alternative to Dutch Gag Bit - advice please



## Razamataz-kaz (17 October 2011)

Hi, looking for some advice on my horses bit!!
Got him 3 months ago hes a 16yr old, 16.3, IDX and he came with a Happy Mouth Single Jointed Dutch Gag.  
His flat work is fine, goes in an outline, (in trot & canter his head does come up) but, he can be very strong when jumping; his head goes in the air, he can start bouncing around a bit and then he tanks towards, over and after the jump! Leaving me with little control after it to try and sit to slow him down!!
 Not knowing much about his bit I decided to look it up and have read a few things I dislike about it  
1.  I read that these bits should only be used with double reins - when I got him it was only being used with single reins on the first lower ring. (I dont want to start using double reins)  2. I wonder whether the Dutch gag is making his head come up?  & 3. He has started chewing through the happy mouth to the metal which is leaving sharp edges! !!
I have since changed the reins to the snaffle ring on the bit and I have worked him on that in the school which he seems fine in, his heads a little lower in trot I am going to continue to put him in this for schooling and some pole work for now but its not enough control for me when we are jumping/hacking etc .  Can anyone suggest an alternative bit for me to use for jumping to the gag that will give me brakes and encourage his head to remain lower?
I plan to continue schooling him in the snaffle & get maybe get some pole work lessons but think i need to change the gag as it seems quite severe.
Thanks for any help


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## lovemymares (17 October 2011)

You coulld try a little hanging cheek snaffle, the mouth piece can be of any type, jointed, french link etc...... gives a bit of leaverage but still a fairly simple snaffle and you can do dressage in it. 

I had both my last two crazy mares in these bits and found them to give enough poll pressure, whilst not being too much from them to cause adverse reactions.

Good luck


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## equinim (17 October 2011)

i hate dutch gags they can cause hard corners as they constantly putting pressure on mouth.

work out what horse is doing 
ie is head up with hollow neck or just raised.
do they evade bit.
do they open mouth.
u say it is a happy mouth so they ob have a soft mouth.
i like rubber pelhams with roundings or split reins for control without too much mouth pressure. it gives u the extra poll pressure without too much mouth pressure

id try a hanging cheek snaffle with a mouthpiece suitable for the horses mouth conformation.

i have used a happy mouth with a kineton noseband for a horse with sensitive mouth but strong
or with same action a myler combination bit.
they have nose pressure with small amount of mouth pressure rather than total muth pressure


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## hayinamanger (17 October 2011)

I like the Neue Schule Universal Trans Angle bit, it has a nice mouth piece and is very useful for a strong horse, without being severe.


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## longdog (18 October 2011)

Another vote for the NS Universal


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## forestfantasy (19 October 2011)

longdog said:



			Another vote for the NS Universal
		
Click to expand...

and me ^^


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## irish_only (19 October 2011)

See if you can borrow a cheltenham gag, my big lad has been tried in everything going for coping with the exciting stuff, and we seem to have settled very nicely with this. I have two reins on it so I can just ride on the snaffle when possible but a lot of people just ride with one.


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## AngieandBen (20 October 2011)

I have a Thom Thum bit with the copper rollers.  Our pony has always been in a gag, but he was still impossible to stop on exciting hacks !  He goes much better in this and he's much more relaxed and plays with the rollers too.


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## squiz22 (20 October 2011)

The gag puts pressure on the pole which sounds in line with the horse putting his head in the air and getting very strong etc. I actually ride one of my eventers in a sprenger duo dutch gag and I think its brilliant. I also ride using one rein on the middle hole and I am perfectly happy doing that. 

Perhaps have a search for bits which give a bit of poll pressure and then maybe try a few out because every horse is different. The universal bits are expensive and so you'd want to know it suited you before you splashed out. However, I too would recommend them.

The hanging cheek snaffle is good and its also dressage legal so you can compete in it. Its not as strong as the dutch gag by any means. 

If you are finding that you are getting results in the school I'd keep on going. Perhaps when it comes to jumping challenge him a little and get him using his brain. Maybe try some grid work or more technical fences so he doesn't associate jumping with just flying about.


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## Daytona (20 October 2011)

NS universal jumping bit


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## hobit (24 October 2011)

I found my big lad didn't like the single joint snaffle type bit, he prefers a french link jointed bit and a thin one also. The stronger the bit I put in him the worse and stronger he gets, took him cross country last month in a french link with a flash on and he was great. Each horse to the own preferrences though.

Just a thought but have you had his teeth checked as there could be something going on that you dont know about.


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## caberston (26 October 2011)

sprenger kk ultra universal! i had a lot of the same issues as you and love this bit!


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## Ladylina83 (27 October 2011)

My mare likes the strait bar happymouth dutch gag but I couldn't put any other strait bar in her - I also use that on the second ring down, I'm happy to do this as I can't see how it is that much different than riding in a wilki snaffle ! - which thinking about it could be another one of your options - perhaps try a multi link mouth piece rather than a single joint as it can hit the roof of the mouth and really pinch the tounge too


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## EllieandGeorge (27 October 2011)

You could try a wilkie, you said he went better on the snaffle ring -the wilkie is the same action as the gag but a lot milder, mine wears a wilkie for everything and a gag for xc/hunting etc.

If not you could try a hanging cheek, its actually a lot different from a wilkie being like a milder version of the pelham. 

I would give a lot of bits a try, if there's someone you can borrow them off, try things like a lozenge or a cherry roller, especially in salox/copper/sweet iron metals as they generally encourage the horse to soften and go nicely.


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