# What age do you think is right to break and ride a horse?



## Daisychain (17 August 2009)

Just noting over the past few weeks peoples often horrified attitudes of breaking in horses of 3yrs or less.

Out of interest, what are your reasons for this and on what basis?

I actually break my horses at 3, but i have worked in the racing industry and ridden out horses as young as 2.  I have also bought horses from Ireland which have had a full seasons hunting at 3 with no detriment.

It is actually scientifically proven that race horses broke at 2 actually have much stronger bone in the long run than horses broken in later.

So what is it then, scientific evidence or tradition?


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## MistletoeMegan (17 August 2009)

Show me the scientific evidence


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## Daisychain (17 August 2009)

There was a big article in horse and hound a year or so ago!


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## Coffee_Bean (17 August 2009)

Hhmm, i guess I've just always thought that at 2 the majority of them are still very babyish in their heads, even if their bodys can take it. I also think that they look really babyish 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 But that's interesting about their bones.

At the end of the day, age is a number, and each horse is an individual, if a horse is ready at two, its ready at two, if a horse isn't ready until it's four then so be it.


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## Chico Mio (17 August 2009)

I don't know, but I believe that different breeds mature at different rates.  So a TB can be racing at two years old but an Arab would not do so well being broken at such an early age.  As a matter of fact, I have spent a long time finding a horse that has only been broken after four years old, as they tend to break them aound two in my area.  Newbi was five in May and was only broken earlier this year as his previous owner believes that sport horses  (he is for endurance) should not be broken until they are around this age to give them a chance to develop.


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## Digger123 (17 August 2009)

Just done mine and he will be 4 next June. He stand at 15.2 so we wanted to get him started before he gets any bigger and before he gets any bright ideas.Planning on turning him away over winter and then get him back in the new year.


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## tasteofchristmaschaos (17 August 2009)

It also depends what type of horse you have. A tb might mature at 4, but a cob or native won't mature until 7 or 8, so backing a 3 year old cob is like backing an 18 month old (or younger!) tb. Personally I never break until 4, turn them away, and bring them back into work when they are 5. I would rather wait a year longer to break them and have the riding an extra x number of years into their old age, than break them early and have to retire them early due damage done by breaking them before they have matured enough.


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## diggerbez (17 August 2009)

as above i think in depends on the type of horse really...altho personally i wouldn't break one under 3 years old and then i'd assess how mature they were as to how much they would do. i think racehorses are different- they aren't being broken in to do the same type of job as say a hunter or potential eventer so not a problem for many being done as a 2 year old....


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## corinnematthews (17 August 2009)

Oh it so depends on what they are bred for.....yearlings are broken to go racing, and I had a 14 year old pointer who went that route and was never un sound or sorry for himself!  But someones lovely that is as fat as a pig at 4 years (because he was left to develop....) is far more likely to have more problems! For me, back a stong 2 year old, and turn him away, then pick him back up at 3 years, maybe a bit of more concentrated work, put him away again, and then expect more at 4 years and so on. Horses for courses!


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## Daisychain (17 August 2009)

Yes i like your train of thought, it is all down to the horse! I am fed up with the should and shant way tbh.


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## pixiebee (17 August 2009)

I guess you are refering to your post a few days ago about taking your newly broken 3 yr old cob on a fun ride and jumping him?

Still think cobs/native/anything thick set with higher bone density should be left longer to mature physically.
Some breeds such as arabs may be physically but not mentally mature.

Answer-anywhere  from 3 1/2 to break in and 4 plus to school lightly and 5 to jump. Thats my opinion anyway!


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## HumBugsey (17 August 2009)

I wouldn't put any weight on a horse under 3. If they look grown at 3 I'd go for it, if they don't I'd wait. But I have no issue with lunging/longlineing with tack at 2 1/2 as long as it's short and sweet. Also known a lot of horses broken to drive at 2 1/2 but it's different, theres no weight bareing, it's usually done in a light two wheeled breaking charriot, on the flat, in walk and trot. With the chunks it can be benificial to get their brains engaged younger so they're can develop they're co-ordination! Wobbly baby chunks aren't fun! lol


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## CleverHorses (17 August 2009)

I break mine in at 3 yrs, I break them in, get them schooling a bit even introduce them to a bit of pole work and small jumping. This is often in the autumn, then give them the winter off bring them back in the spring start hacking, more schooling so on hopefully to event them in the 4 yr old classes if ready or good enough.


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## Nickijem (17 August 2009)

I wish some-one would tell our local travelling community all this.  I am sick of seeing babies pulling the trotting rigs down our road at break-neck speed and being ridden bare-back by heavy lads.  But I suppose they would just argue that that's how they have always broken their horses.


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## Daisychain (17 August 2009)

Yes totally agree with you here, i have mainly broken big horses and sometimes they have felt very wobbly at 3, i have currently broken a cob in and he is incredibly well balanced walks trots and canters perfectly on a circle and pops small jumps! And loves a quiet fun ride (horror upon horrors!)

He is in no way abused and is lovingly looked after and cared for.


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## PapaFrita (17 August 2009)

I'm pretty sure that for every article extolling the virtues of backing horses under 3 and the benefit it has on the density of their bone, you can find another article describing the wear and tear on the joints and long-term damage. And of course that's just the _physical_ aspect; the psychological consequences are something else. I think it's a 'piece of string' question. Personally I would back at 3 and not jump at all until 4.


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## Daisychain (17 August 2009)

You have worked around showjumpers, what do you think of loose schooling over jumps at 3? do you think this is detrimental or beneficial.


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## janet68 (17 August 2009)

I first sat my irish draft at 2 backed him at 3 and tried to bring him into work @ 4(unsuccessfully) still trying @ 5 but think he is work shy as everytime i try to do anything he goes and hurts himself. And have a clydesdale that i bought poor and wont even attemt to sit on him till he is at least 4


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## diggerbez (17 August 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
You have worked around showjumpers, what do you think of loose schooling over jumps at 3? do you think this is detrimental or beneficial. 

[/ QUOTE ]

i think thats an  interesting question DC 
	
	
		
		
	


	




personally i think a horse is ready when its ready and you have to judge them individually. for example my 4 year old is jumping small courses and is off to camp this week for 3 days SJ and XC tuition. some people will think this is too much, i don't. he wouldn't have been ready as a 3 year old (he is still very immature looking i think) but some 3 year olds are ready for small stuff- how the hell do people like pippa funnell etc get theirs ready for BYEH otherwise?!

with regards to loose jumping some of the jumps they put 3 year olds at are mahoooosive! surely more damage can be done like this than popping a few x poles with a rider on out of trot?


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## HumBugsey (17 August 2009)

I think popping a youngster over a few jumps loose once in a while to see what there going to be like won't do any long term harm. Once in a while to me means like once in 6 months. They can already be jumping out of fields/over ditches quite young! If they're valueble or have great things expected of them it can be usful to see how they're getting on.


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## diggerbez (18 August 2009)

oh i totally agree with this but some of the youngsters at the big sales have been more than "popped" once or twice in a 6th month period- they have to be to be that polished at coming down the lane to an enormous oxer
(i'm not against loose jumping babies at all- its how i decided to buy my youngster but was just wondering why people have heart failure at talk of popping a three year old over a jump under saddle but don't bat an eyelid at loosing them over much bigger stuff- being pedantic really  
	
	
		
		
	


	








)


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## JanetGeorge (18 August 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
I'm pretty sure that for every article extolling the virtues of backing horses under 3 and the benefit it has on the density of their bone, you can find another article describing the wear and tear on the joints and long-term damage. And of course that's just the _physical_ aspect; the psychological consequences are something else. I think it's a 'piece of string' question. Personally I would back at 3 and not jump at all until 4. 

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd put money on it!! 
	
	
		
		
	


	




  And while sprint-bred TBs ARE backed at about 18 months, I've SEEN the consequences first hand having spent a couple of years working with one of the top 2 year old trainers in Oz.  Shin soreness/bucked shins is the most common - about one in 3 two year olds developed it and had to be turned away without racing.  Concussion injury to joints was also common - some came back sound after 6 months in the field - many didn't!

Probably only one in 3 of the 50+ 2 year olds that came into training at that yard each year actually raced as 2 year olds - and it was soundness that stopped them!  The trainer concerned was one of the first to start routinely x-raying two year olds to see if they were mature enough to stand training - turning the ones that weren't back out!

I usually back my pure-bred and part-bred IDs between 3 and 4 - but they do minimal lunging (on as big a circle as possible) and the minimum of work in the school to make them 'safe'.  They then hack out quietly, for less than 45 minutes mainly in walk and trot, for the next 3-6 months.

We get a LOT of people wanting to send 2 year olds to be backed because 'they're getting so big"!  That's the best reason to leave them another 12 months - poor babies are still growing!


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## PapaFrita (18 August 2009)

I don't have a problem with loose jumping 3 year-olds as long as it's not done too often. Once a month is more than enough IMO. Of course the surface has to be good and fences not huuuge, but I know someone who used to loose jump their 3 year old every other day at heights well over 4ft and _that_ I think can't do any good. At the very least it could make a horse 'sour', don't you think? I don't think loose jumping generally is particularly beneficial beyond getting horses used to the idea of jumping (nice to watch though 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 ) but it is necessary if you want to sell your unbacked SJ prospect. YO was popping his _foals_ (7-9 mths old) over little fences (around 2ft) the other day and I just couldn't see the point! He asked me if I wanted to jump the Little Cigar and I declined, even though LC on his own is inclined to leap over anything in his way 
	
	
		
		
	


	




Considering that most horses here are considered ancient and wayyy past it at 17, I think it's pretty safe to say that they tend to do too much rather than too little with them at too early an age.


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## hadfos (18 August 2009)

I dont think you can set an age and say it is right,depends on their stature at 3 
	
	
		
		
	


	




,some are physically capable of it others are not!
I have a tb who has never raced and i started lunging him at 3,he had numerous breaks throughout,and wasnt completely backed...hacking out etc until he was 6,but he is 17hh now,and didnt stop growing/filling out till he was 8,i feel i did the right thing as he was still growing


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## PapaFrita (18 August 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
oh i totally agree with this but some of the youngsters at the big sales have been more than "popped" once or twice in a 6th month period- they have to be to be that polished at coming down the lane to an enormous oxer

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm sure you're right about that. However, last month I went to an auction and all the horses were loose jumped there and then during the bidding. The atmosphere was electric and many of the horses were distracted/stressed by the buzz, noise etc. and so didn't jump as well as in the promotional video. There's no real way to get them ready for that, is there? Unless you invite all your mates round for a party and get the horses loose jumping then 
	
	
		
		
	


	





[ QUOTE ]
(i'm not against loose jumping babies at all- its how i decided to buy my youngster but was just wondering why people have heart failure at talk of popping a three year old over a jump under saddle but don't bat an eyelid at loosing them over much bigger stuff- being pedantic really  
	
	
		
		
	


	








) 

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, I don't see it as just a question of additional weight. After all, horses do all sorts of things on their own (hoolying around on hard/slippery ground for a start!) that we wouldn't do under saddle. A young horse has to contend with weight that shifts, has to balance differently, etc, etc. Obviously some horses are just more balanced than others so really each case has to be assessed individually 
	
	
		
		
	


	




Do you disagree though that lots and LOTS of SJers and dressage horses are overproduced? I've read sooo much about people buying very young dressage horses shown doing advanced movements and 'trotting for ten' and then having to be taken right back to basics so they don't get ruined. Sort of the same thing goes for SJers, I think.
Sorry, turned into a bit of a ramble there...


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## Haha (18 August 2009)

I'd put money on it!!  And while sprint-bred TBs ARE backed at about 18 months, I've SEEN the consequences first hand having spent a couple of years working with one of the top 2 year old trainers in Oz. Shin soreness/bucked shins is the most common - about one in 3 two year olds developed it and had to be turned away without racing. Concussion injury to joints was also common - some came back sound after 6 months in the field - many didn't!

Probably only one in 3 of the 50+ 2 year olds that came into training at that yard each year actually raced as 2 year olds - and it was soundness that stopped them! The trainer concerned was one of the first to start routinely x-raying two year olds to see if they were mature enough to stand training - turning the ones that weren't back out!

[ QUOTE ]
I usually back my pure-bred and part-bred IDs between 3 and 4 - but they do minimal lunging (on as big a circle as possible) and the minimum of work in the school to make them 'safe'. They then hack out quietly, for less than 45 minutes mainly in walk and trot, for the next 3-6 months.

We get a LOT of people wanting to send 2 year olds to be backed because 'they're getting so big"! That's the best reason to leave them another 12 months - poor babies are still growing!

[/ QUOTE ]

This is probably the reason there are so many TB ex racers or the one's that don't make the grade being sold and flooding markets.


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## millitiger (18 August 2009)

i think regardless of how mature a horse looks on the outside you have absolutely no idea how his growth plates, bone density etc are shaping up inside.

and breaking a horse at 2 before it gets too big is totally wrong imo, if you haven't got the guts to break a big horse, get someone else to do it at 3 or 4.

i like to do some long reining and in hand shows over the summer of the 3yro year and lightly back them in the autumn- walking, trotting out on short hacks. no schooling!

then they have a break over the worst weather in winter and come back into work in the spring of their 4yro year. more hacking, little outings to hire the local school etc.

i would never jump a horse under saddle at 3- i haven't even loose jumped mine yet!
but i don't see the point in jumping for jumpings sake- i like my horse to be well balanced and confident in the contact etc before jumping under saddle.

i may take mine slow but am reaping the rewards now they are older.


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## Festive_Felicitations (18 August 2009)

I think teh breaking age depends o nthe horse but below the age of 5 most horses should be limited in the amount of work they do, ie never more than 1 hr/day. No real (over 90cm) jumping with a rider till 5. But thats just my view.

I do think that the cost of keeping a horse puts pressure on people to have them broken and 'earning their keep' at a younger age. Few people have the space to have a horse in work and 1 or 2 youngster chilling in a field.

With all the Young horse classes, there was a very interesting article I read either in an Aus mag or H&amp;H about how often we see horses winning the 3/4/5yr old classes that then disappear and are not heard of again.  The article then went on to list several examples and even tried to track down some of the horses, alot had been sold and couldn't be found, a few were still with the same owners and out at grass due to injury (in all honestly most of these were mainly self inflicted).
So I am not sure how good an idea they are, surely a more rational age break for them would  be 4/5/6 or 5/6/7...


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## kellyeaton (18 August 2009)

i say play around bitting and long reining that kind of stuff at about 2 and a half and then back around 3 3 and half then start lungeing that kind of age but very slowly and not for to long!


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## mineon (18 August 2009)

I think it really is down tho the breed of the horse and the horse him self,  I've backed a lusitano 17hh at 3 then turned away (when I say backed i mean sat on walk trot in school couple of short hack then turned away till next year) then my 5 yrs old ID X 18hh now didn't back her till she was 4 then turned away till this year.


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## yethersgill (18 August 2009)

As already said, it depends very much on the breed and probabaly the individula horse/pony too!
Dales ponies mature really slowly and my current "baby" dales is 5 now. I lightly backed her at 3 then she had a foal and have finally brought her into work this year. Mentally she is much more mature than she was a 4 year old 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 we will just do some basic schooling and hacking this year and then hopefully next year we will start on longer pleasure rides and a bit of jumping


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## the watcher (18 August 2009)

I am planning on doing the long reining/groundwork and light backing at 2 or 3 depending on growth and maturity, then turning away and remounting the following spring for a season of light riding and schooling. The second year of training will be the start of competition and ridden showing - however this is very fluid and depends on the progress of the horse


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## aregona (18 August 2009)

At the BEF futurity events, if you enter your 3yr old into the sj or eventing sections they expect it to be loose jumping so they can send it up the jumping lane and access it


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## nobbster (18 August 2009)

usually i would at 3 years, but a few people up my yard decided to break theirs in at 18 mths which personally i think is horriable as his legs are know completley messed up and keeps going lame. arrrghhh makes me so madddd to see them riding youngsters.


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## diggerbez (18 August 2009)

[ QUOTE ]

Do you disagree though that lots and LOTS of SJers and dressage horses are overproduced? I've read sooo much about people buying very young dressage horses shown doing advanced movements and 'trotting for ten' and then having to be taken right back to basics so they don't get ruined. Sort of the same thing goes for SJers, I think.
Sorry, turned into a bit of a ramble there... 
	
	
		
		
	


	





[/ QUOTE ]

oh totally! thats why i bought my youngster as an unbroken 4 year old rather than from a well know local dealer who is famous for overproducing her babies- they look like medium dressage horses on her website...very worrying


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## Mithras (18 August 2009)

I've also worked in the racing industry, and being very small and light, got to ride a lot of the two year olds.  They feel so different from 3 year olds, much smaller and more fragile, and they are so innocent.  Actually not that many racehorses race as two year olds, mainly the extremely robust, quick maturing sprint bred ones.  Many National Hunt horses take until 6 or 7 to mature fully.  And thats TBs, which are bred to mature early, which have light bone and which are specially fed to mature quickly.

I see no point in doing more than lightly backing 3 year olds, other than it being easier for the owner because they are more innocent and gullible due to being weak.  I would be very dubious about buying a horse that had done much at 3, because I would be worried about soundness issues.  I certainly wouldn't be expecting them to jump, and I also have the same concerns about serious amounts of loose jumping in showjumpers.  They have the whole of the rest of their lives ahead of them.


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## _jetset_ (18 August 2009)

I think it is all very much down to the individual horse and what stage they are at. 

I have lunged my two year old in very loose side reins twice while he was in for getting ready for the Futurity. He came straight in from the field, has not been fed since April and went on to be the Champion Potential 2 Year Old Eventer at the venue. I stayed and watched quite a few of his age group and could not believe how muscled and big some of them there. Some looked like four year olds 
	
	
		
		
	


	













My two year old is now back out in the field with his two friends and will not be coming in until November time. At this point, I plan on starting his education with some more light lunging (by this I do not mean circles, I take him large but being alone I struggled to get him working on two lines), will put a saddle on him (he is worked in a roller) and depending on how he is looking at the beginning of next year I will probably have a sit on him.


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## *Spider* (18 October 2011)

I'd very much like to see the scientific journals that claim a 2 year old race horse hammered into the ground has better bone strength to the average horse.

My horse was broken at 4, which I think suited him. He's 5 now but looking at previous pictures of him he was very physically immature.
I think it really depends on the horse, what physical and mental maturity they're at.
I would not break a horse younger than 3.5 years of age and after inital breaking i'd turn it away.


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## team barney (18 October 2011)

At three they are too young to cope with the pressures of ridden work in my opinion. At this age I will get them used to having tack on, and slowly introduce groundwork (not lunging).  I will also have a little sit on if I feel they are mature enough, just bareback and for no more than 5mins though.

4 is the absolute youngest I would start ridden training, but I wouldn't put them over fences at this age.

I tend to wait until they are 5 for their proper education, as I personally prefer to wait until they are physically and mentally mature enough to cope.  

I know the common argument is to "break" them while they aren't yet fully mature and can't offer as much resistance but I hate this attitude.  In my experience if you do your foundation work correctly you don't encounter the extreme resistance that you can if you rush in all guns blazing.  All horse require different training times to establish safe ridden work, but in my opinion there is no need for the rush, if you take it at their pace there is very little issue, and contrary to popular belief bucking isn't a mandatory part of the backing/training process!


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## Onyxia (18 October 2011)

PapaFrita said:



			I'm pretty sure that for every article extolling the virtues of backing horses under 3 and the benefit it has on the density of their bone, you can find another article describing the wear and tear on the joints and long-term damage. And of course that's just the _physical_ aspect; the psychological consequences are something else. I think it's a 'piece of string' question. Personally I would back at 3 and not jump at all until 4.
		
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I agree.
I like to start them at 3 (pop a rider on a couple of times a week to start getting the basics down) and take them out to shows in hand to get them used to that sort of thing.
By 4 they learn the basics of their future job, perfect it in the 5 year old year and go off to do their job at 6.


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## Meowy Catkin (18 October 2011)

Oh lord! It amazes me how many people STILL believe that different breeds mature (physically) at different rates! 

http://www.equinestudies.org/ranger_2008/ranger_piece_2008_pdf1.pdf

This was originally written in 2001, that's 10 years ago. (Yes, copyright is 2008, but the original date is in the introduction).

I'd love to have a study done with vast numbers of horses of different breeds. It would be a long term study (eg 30years), but I'd like to see the work done by the horses, plus the age the work was done, recorded alongside any lameness suffered by them throughout their lives. It would also be interesting to compare PTS rates of racehorses compared to eventers for example.

I have a friend who lives on the continent (a few different countries) she once said to me that I would be amazed by how many horses there regularly have joint injections. As she was talking about graded WBs, I do wonder whether there is a link to the jumping that they do at a young age. Another study is needed here too.


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## Megibo (18 October 2011)

a recently made friend in college said she backed her traddie cob at 2 because he was turning into a bored thug and needed something to do. she could have done something else but she backed without turning away instead. he's now been on loan a few times to an 8 year old for hacking and sound as a pound apparently. i think he's now four or five..

her mum bred her a foal this year from a good ID stallion (apparently good but i've not heard of him) out of her ex racer thoroughbred 'with **** conformation but she needed a foal as a project...' and she already decided to break it at 2, though this time she'll teach it to walk, trot, canter and maybe jump under saddle then give him 6 months in a field...he'll be too big if they wait til he's 3...

personally i'd get it backed at 3 and turn away until 4 and gradually build up the 'proper' work. only thing i'd do with a two year old is handle and play with it, maybe get it to wear tack but certainly no rider on it...


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## Elf On A Shelf (18 October 2011)

There is no right or wrong answer to this. I personally look at the horse and if they look physically mature enough and are mentally mature enough to start doing some work then they do so. I've broken everything from 2yo's to 7yo's. Even if it only gets to the stage of lunging and long lining before a break or whether they get sat on and pootled about or again whether they do proper work. Every horse is different. You know your horse, you know when it will say enough is enough or if they are still capable of more before going on a chill out break.


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## Zimzim (18 October 2011)

I'm only just starting the ground work with my youngster and he is 3.5 years old. Hes bridled and bitted and happily doing inhand work and walking out in hand.

Im not planning on doing any ridden until after christmas (so he will be nearly 4). Hes a lovely sports horse and is just starting to fill out and develop natural muscle and topline, so Im taking it slow to ensure he is developed well before I do any ridden. (Plus Ive only had him 4 weeks so were still getting to know one another and he came straight out from the field!). 

I think it depends on the individual horse, how mature they are, how they're taking to work already etc. Some horses develop quicker than others, and some alot slower.


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## Meowy Catkin (18 October 2011)

he'll be too big if they wait til he's 3
		
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What rubbish. 




			Some horses develop quicker than others, and some alot slower.
		
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So you didn't read the article then?


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## Captainmouse (18 October 2011)

Thanks for that faracat, I found it very interesting and very useful for me as I have a 3 year old.

since the beginning of the year he has gone from a 5'3" to a 6' rug, he has got taller but mainly longer and obviously filling out.

he loads and travels and has been to a futurity so done the in hand showing. good for the farrier, and to be bathed, wears a bit and roller and is lunged (though no circles - I run up and down) and due to the hard ground we don't canter.

he walks and trots over poles on the ground and does small jumps.  he will weave flags and round and between barrels, up and down steps and ditches thru water, up ramps along platforms up and over banks, thru 'curtains' and across tarpaulins.

I have stood him next to the mounting block with me at the top and stood 
him next to a horse being clipped.

I am not entirely sure he is physically mature enough yet, he is looking more horse like but still a bit leggy and gangley. but I will see how we go, there is no rush.  he lives out at the moment with other youngsters and has been either barned or stabled in bad weather.

I will be following this thread


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## Aces_High (18 October 2011)

The majority on here know my thoughts about leaving horses until they are 4+ to be broken and this topic has been covered numerous times.  I would just like to add that it's very easy for a lot of people on here to say leave them, give them time etc.  The majority of people out there producing these horses, be it for racing, eventing, dressage etc they are running a business.  They need to make money and by producing a horse to win a BYEH class as a 4 yr old or for it to win it's maiden race at 2 they have to be produced accordingly and their value is raised accordingly.  There was a video clip yesterday of a 3yr old dressage horse who made 900K and he was very smart but I would put money on it that he would have been started as a 2yr old and he's a big warmblood.  People are in horses as a business and to make money - otherwise there wouldn't be an industry!


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## Meowy Catkin (18 October 2011)

AH, what you say is totally correct. 

When it comes down to it, the only youngsters that I have control over are my own. So they will be backed during their fourth year and taken slowly from there. I'm sure that this will stack the odds in their favour of having a long, sound ridden career.


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## domane (18 October 2011)

I have a Comtois X who is 3.5yrs old and just had his first go at long-lining - he picked it up very quickly, I was surprised and delighted.  He's a very steady-Eddie chap and takes everything in his stride but I read the article on growth plates a couple of years ago and there is no way I would sit on my boy's back before his 5th year, despite how mature he seems in the head.


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## Tonty Tont (18 October 2011)

It took Tont until he was 14 to allow me to back and ride him


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## mmel001 (18 October 2011)

Quarter horses and race horses are often 'broken' earlier than most other horses. It would be interesting to see a study on the lifespan and working life of these horses in comparison to horses who are started later in life. If there's already a study someone point me to it I'd be interested to read it! 

My horse was lightly started this year, that involved lots more ground work, introducing tack, ground work in tack and then introducing a rider. He did no more than 1 - 2 hours of 'ridden' work a week and was taken through his lessons at his own pace. He spent probably 3 months working like this and has had the last few months off work and will have the remainder of the winter off work.

He's a draught horse though, and he's not 4 until next spring. I wanted to be at a point where he was used to someone getting on and off his back this year, but because he's a big chap and a strong character and at times a bit of a handful going into his teens so to speak, I felt and was also advised by horsey professionals that he needed something to focus on. That's why we started a little early, however we did take things slowly and at his pace. He's certainly not 'backed' and ready to be ridden away, he'll come back into work next spring when he's 4 and we will gradually work up again. I'm in no rush and he's still very young. 

Some people will argue that he should be much further along in his education by now, and indeed even probably competing next year. Others argue that he's still a baby and as such needs that time to mature. 

Being a draught he will physically mature around 7/8 years, so I see no reason to push him too hard at this stage and run the risk of ruining him or damaging him at such a young age.


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## Aces_High (18 October 2011)

I am really interested in the owners of Draught horses and the big heavy cobs as to their theories.  I may be wrong but I am assuming that these horses will not be competed to a high level of competition.  They might be a family friend and used for hacking, hunting, bit of showing etc.   A sort of all round family horse as such.  I struggle to understand how if it was broken and ridden away at 3 or 4 how you could harm it physically with a bit of light hacking and pottering around a school.  I am interested in your views.....  Please do not take my post as a criticism or elitist as it isn't.  I know that there is a market for these horses and they are much loved by their owners and do their job proud and well.


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## domane (19 October 2011)

My own personal theory, Aces_High, is that Draught horses are built for pulling and not carrying.  When you look at the weight of things they can pull, there is no way that you would put the something of equivalent weight on their back, they would collapse.  If you look at the sticky in the vet section ("Images of Veterinary Conditions", there are some x-rays of kissing spines which show just how close the tops of the vertebrae can be.  To me, it wouldn't take a lot of weight to make them touch.  If you read this article about growth plates....

http://www.equinestudies.org/ranger_2008/ranger_piece_2008_pdf1.pdf

... it shows and tells how the soft growth plates at the ends of horses' bones harden from the hoof up and that the spine is last thing to harden off and mature completely and that this is actually not until a horse is around 5.5 years..... if the horse is long-necked then the base of the neck area/withers is 6 years... and where do we put a saddle and sit?  Not too far from there...  

This article claims that ALL horses mature at the same rate, regardless of breed and I will concede that there is recent scientific evidence that shows that young racehorses actually do have denser bones than their non-raced TB equivalents.  Naturally their frames will be supported better by muscles that have been worked, trained and exercised but I do wonder if you were to compare those two horses at the age of 15 whether the racehorse would be suffering with arthritis or other bone degenerative problems.... they haven't done THAT survey yet.  

So just because a horse looks big and strong, doesn't necessarily mean that internally the structures are there to support a rider - yet.  We all love our horses and want the best for them - for them to live as long a life and to be as healthy as possible.  By sitting on them too early, I do wonder whether we are contributing to problems that will appear in later life.  But that it just my own humble opinion......


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## GingerTrotter (19 October 2011)

I am currently breaking in my 3 year old (well 3 and a half now).
He is currently standing at 15.3hh ish but is growing so fast that I have to keep stopping and starting. He is walk, trot, canter under saddle - very balanced and willing when he's not having a growth spurt but when his bum gets too high he becomes unbalanced to I give him some time off.
He it lunged over jumps, basically as high as he wants - he loves it but i dont do it too often only when he gets stale schooling. 
I find he is only mentally capable of doing half an hour under saddle. 
I plan to potter along at his pace, each training session is different, sometimes he is super balanced and will do trot poles and raised poles easily, other days he can barely canter a circle.

I believe each horse is different and you need to tailor your training accordingly. I personally dont back them until they are 3 but i do get them used to tack and ground work at 2 and a half.

But by far the most important point it to not take anything too seriously and make the training fun   Happy unpressured horse is a far faster learner IMO


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## Aces_High (19 October 2011)

Hi Domane - I completely understand where you are coming from.  I haven't had a chance to read the link - I think I might have read it before though.  Barbaro does appear on a lot of journals though!  I still do not think that if I was to hop on to your big chap as a 3 yr old that I would do him any damage.  I weigh 8.5 stone and with tack wouldn't be over 9.5 stone.  I am not sure how much a GP saddle weighs!  I can understand that you wouldn't want him pulling huge weights as that does put a lot of strain on their skeleton.  I just think for me hopping on to probably a 700KG (complete guess) horse isn't going to structurally affect him later on in life.  I don't mean intensively training him but hacking out gently and a bit of walk, trot and canter in the school.  I am not sure that I agree that all horse mature at the same rate.  I know that TB's are conditioned to it but even comparing an untouched TB to an untouched WB the TB will always look more furnished - unless of course it's bred to stay 4 miles in wet ground!  

I do completely agree it is horses for courses and also it depends if you are a professional or just a person who loves horses and is looking to break and ride away your first horse, to be able to say you have done it and then maybe keep that animal as a life long friend.


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## brown tack (19 October 2011)

I'm backing my youngester next spring, he's is already a well built chap but there's going to be a lot growth yet.

Brought him as 3yr old but think he's a late foal and only just 3. (resuced so not sure) but he hasnt been touched at all so needs the extra time. 
Weather he is 3 or 4 in the spring he will be backed, ridden away for a month or two then throwen back out to restart at the end of the summer/autumn to start winter dressage for a few months before having time off again after Xmas till the spring the following year, when he will be 4-5


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## Megibo (19 October 2011)

Faracat said:



			What rubbish.
		
Click to expand...

exactly ..


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## Cortez (19 October 2011)

Whether horses are broken at 3 or 4 often depends on the economics. As a breeder the sooner horses are ready to be seen under saddle, the sooner you are likely to get a buyer so many 3 year olds are backed in the spring of their 3 year old year. This doesn't mean that they have to be worked very hard, just educated enough to be assesed.


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## Kelpie (19 October 2011)

team barney said:



			At three they are too young to cope with the pressures of ridden work in my opinion. At this age I will get them used to having tack on, and slowly introduce groundwork (not lunging).  I will also have a little sit on if I feel they are mature enough, just bareback and for no more than 5mins though.

4 is the absolute youngest I would start ridden training, but I wouldn't put them over fences at this age.

I tend to wait until they are 5 for their proper education, as I personally prefer to wait until they are physically and mentally mature enough to cope.  

I know the common argument is to "break" them while they aren't yet fully mature and can't offer as much resistance but I hate this attitude.  In my experience if you do your foundation work correctly you don't encounter the extreme resistance that you can if you rush in all guns blazing.  All horse require different training times to establish safe ridden work, but in my opinion there is no need for the rush, if you take it at their pace there is very little issue, and contrary to popular belief bucking isn't a mandatory part of the backing/training process!
		
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This ^^^^^

Have a little sit and a hack on your 3yo if you want/ if he's getting bored, sure do a bit of groundwork/ take them out in-hand, etc, etc, but that's about it.   Come on people, what's the hurry!!!??? (OK, finances are the hurry, but isn't it sad that we live in a world where that takes priority over the welfare of the horse???).

... and as for the people that say to back a horse "before he's too big and strong" - FFS, as has been said above, if that's really your view, then clearly you're not the right person to back that horse, leave it to someone more experienced who is happy waiting until he is plenty big and strong enough!!!

A friend of mine does retirement livery and there is a very strong correlation between the age that the horse retires and the age that he started any sort of hard work at     I really wish there could be some proper studies on this one to put the issue to bed at long last.  However, all the while there is such doubt, let's give the horse the benefit of the doubt and allow him to enjoy his childhood, eh?


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## Lolita (19 October 2011)

Think about 4 is nice so they've done most of there growing and aren't pushed too much.


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## TallulahBright (19 October 2011)

I backed my 3 yr old TB this summer- walk, trot and 30 min hack once a week under a libra saddle pad. This was on advice of vet as needed to check her back was ok (long rant could be gone into here but....). It was exactly the right thing to do- she enjoyed the bit of work, also long reined a bit. She's now back out in the field having a winter think about what she's learned. She's developed some early top line and a positive attitude so I'm now looking forward to starting her lightly again in the spring. I won't be doing any jumping next year, though.
It does seem that there are lots of conflicting views out there but I do think- you know your own horse. I've had mine since she was 8 months old so have been able to gauge her responses to groundwork etc. I can honestly say it's been one of the most enjoyable things I've ever done!
Enjoy!!


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## rowy (19 October 2011)

I would tend to do nothing with them as a 2 year old except maybe in hand walks and bitting. 
I would back at 3 but just very lightly- lunging, long-reining and sitting on and having a wonder around. then turn away.
Then back properly early 4 year old year ready for competing as a 4 year old.

As with jumping- I loose jumped my 3 year old once just to get her used to poles and jumps and she loves jumping!
My 4 year old didnt get jumped as a 3 year old at all and he has only been jumped a couple of times this year over small jumps.


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