# Breeding a dun connemara mare?



## littlemissj (30 July 2016)

I have a dun connemara mare by moonlight silver shadow. I know very little about genetics. If I wanted to put her in foal in future years, what colour of stallion should I put her to to avoid breeding a blue eyed cream? What colour stallion would give me the best chance of breeding a dun foal?
Thanks!


----------



## ester (30 July 2016)

She's buckskin not dun. 
If you use a stallion without a cream gene you will avoid a double dilute. If you use a grey stallion then you will need to know the base colour of the stallion. 
You will then have a 50% of the mare passing on her cream gene and giving you a single cream dilute. 
If the stallion is grey then 50% of foal being grey. 

At a guess I am assuming most connies aren't red carriers-though some are and their agouti (bay) status will make a difference to the stats. 
http://www.animalgenetics.us/Equine/CCalculator3.asp

I would want to know either the mare's or sire's HWSS status too.


----------



## honetpot (30 July 2016)

As above
Most Connemara stallions have been tested for the crème/dilute gene even if they have greyed out. http://www.britishconnemaras.co.uk/index.php?id=204
You also need to check if your mare or the stallion to see if they have been tested for hoof wall separation disease which can be a problem in Connemara's.


----------



## Tetrarch 1911 (30 July 2016)

Okay, I need a 'genetics for dummies' explanation. I have dun shetlands. What is the difference between a dun and a buckskin, in layperson's terms, and can you tell the difference merely by looking at them? I also had a grey dun Highland many years ago, and I have a mouse dun Shetland stallion. Both have an eel stripe and tiger stripes on their legs. I know one should never assume, but I take it they are both proper duns?


----------



## ester (30 July 2016)

2 different genes in 2 different places. 

Yours are probably duns due to the propensity of dun in the breeds and lack of cream 

bay + dun = bay dun (your shetties)
colours used for highlands are a bit freeform (mouse, cream etc) but standard practice with duns would be to say the base colour then dun, kind of, apart from black dun= grulla, red+cream+dun= dunalino (palomino dun) so maybe not 

In the OPs case there is no dun in the breed, only cream so bay+cream = buckskin. 

key indicators - 
the type of body dilution/tone is a bit different
dorsal stripe, which goes down into the tail - countershading will often stop at the top. 
dark ear bars on duns
zebra stripes. 
shoulder barring. 
cobwebbing

all sorts this page is great for that
http://www.grullablue.com/colors/dun_factor_markings.htm

Countershading can make dun-like/primitive markings but without the body dilution. There is now a test for that and it is referred to as nd1 (not dun 1), compared to nd2 which is no dilution, no markings. 

Help or just confuse more!?


----------



## Tetrarch 1911 (30 July 2016)

No, not at all! That explains it very well! I must admit a partiality for duns and buckskins, and it was really interesting to see my little dun's stock. All of his foals were shades of dun bar one, and she was black out of a black mare of solid black breeding. However, when the foal lost her fluff, she had a funny greyish tinge to her. I sold her abroad and she was registered as black, but I would suppose she might carry a dilute gene for dun? It was interesting to see the shades of dun he sired - cream, mouse and red dun. The last one was from a skewbald mare whose breeding was black and skewbald. Sadly he broke a pastern as a foal and had to be PTS, but I often wonder what he would have been like. This was over 20 years ago when colour genetics wasn't so well researched, we just had to go with what info we had.

Interestingly, a well-known Shetland breeder convinced the SPSBS that cremello colouring showed a 'taint' of Welsh blood in the breed, and as far as I'm aware that's nonsense. I'm sure cremello colouring can arise in any breed. However, cremello colts are not allowed to be licensed in the breed, as breeders were using them on chestnuts to get palominos, which were fetching silly money at the time.


----------



## millikins (30 July 2016)

Apologies for thread hi jacking but is your dun shetland a standard or a mini Tetrarch?


----------



## Tetrarch 1911 (30 July 2016)

He's midway - about 35 inches. He's now quite elderly and hangs out with my equally elderly pony stallion. He's Wells-bred on his sire's side and Avening on his dam's, which is where he gets his colour from. His sire is black. His foals tended to be 36 inches-plus, but he did sire a very small mouse dun filly from a 32 inch chestnut mare. He never was the most fertile of lads (Probably the chronic inbreeding on his sire's side) but a nice old fellow.


----------



## rebeccag (2 August 2016)

Our stallion Persiflage (Anglo Arab) has thrown some duns and he has crossed fantasically well with Connemaras in the past.

www.biddesdenstud.co.uk/stallions/persiflage


----------

