# Arghhhhh why are Patterdales such hard work??!



## YasandCrystal (5 August 2011)

Please don't shoot me down, but helpful advice gratefully received on this........

He is a feisty dog (2.5 yrs old)- I had him castrated at around 7 months. At a year old I took him to dog training/agility classes and he was hard to distract and keep focussed and always a handful if he didn't like the look of another dog.

I have 3 other dogs at home, 1 elderly Patterdale bitch (rough coated and no trouble at all - completely different temperament), 1 older and larger breed bitch who will put him in his place and a Sckipperkee male (also neutered) with whom there is rivalry and the infrequent nasty spat. He is excluded from the daily horses visits as I cannot trust him not to swing off their tails, so he is limited to freedom at home in the garden and walks on a lead (extender  I can hear you all now!) with me.

Right so the incident that has led me to ask.......I took him out for a walk to a local park and along the river this afternoon. He had 40 mins of great fun sniffing and running about around the pond, fascinated by the ducks and along the riverbank. Then we went into the 'formal park' where dogs should be kept on leads. Anyway I was walking the path and I see ahead of me a very large ridgeback pup bounding about, I stop hold my dog close and call to the owner 'I know your dog may want to play BUT he doesn't'. My dog was on 2 legs straining at his harness. The owner says nothing and makes no speed or attempt to grab or call his pup at all, until it's right up in my dog's face and my dog bites and latches onto it's lip. A few seconds of squealing - owner then sparks into life to retrieve his pup and my dog lets go. I say sorry. And then some random jogger woman shouts at me 'that dog should be muzzled' - I retort that 'actually my dog is on a frickin lead! and pup is out of control!' she says - that doesn't stop it biting.

Anyway - I don't want my dog biting anyone's dog actually whatever the circumstance, but in this heat I actually would consider muzzling cruel.  Should my dog be muzzled if I don't let him off the lead? What happens if he was muzzled and a loose dog attacks him as he would be unable to defend himself?

May I just add that as the rough coated bitch was such an easy dog we never realised a smooth coat Patterdale would be such a pain. Is there any easy painless way of making him 'social' with other male dogs? He is such a thug and you can just see him posteuring on the lead when he sees another dog. He was supposed to be my hubby's replacement (for the rough coated) van dog - he's a farrier - but that is not going to happen as you can guess. Also we are NOT soft with him and he may seem regretful after the event. I know I am not the first and unlikely the last to ask for advice with a Patterdale - they should come with a warning maybe 'hunting home required!'.

Sorry for the long story............cool lemonade with ice and a slice for you all!!


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## soloabe (5 August 2011)

A basket muzzle would not be cruel in any weather as it allows panting and drinking ect.
But thats beside the point. I would not however have a DA dog on an extender. I Hate them but i know they have their place. On a DA dog is not the place.

Terriers are prone to same sex agression so it may be something you never get over. However i would invest in a good behavioral training class.

Look into mind games for him. Walking is all well and good for physical exercise but terriers need mind games. Hide and seek, Treat balls, trick training, any of the puzzle toys (you can make your own) look into maybe doing some nose work (you can get books to do it at home).


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## Equibrit (5 August 2011)

I own Patterdales. You have to EARN their respect for them to obey you. If it takes a swift kick up the ass, then DO IT. They understand it. Then teach him the meaning of LEAVE IT.


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## EAST KENT (5 August 2011)

AND..you earn that respect also by being a partner in crime out rabbiting or ratting,if you are always on his case for everything he will ignore you.Redirect his "enthusiasm" into some fun stuff (hunting( for him.


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## YasandCrystal (5 August 2011)

Thanks good advice and good ideas. I do want him to go ratting; I feel this hunting instinct is an important role for him.

If you read my previous thread at all - he recently caught one of my chickens that literally fluttered to him and he was a good boy then leaving it as soon as I shouted. So I know he can and will listen.

What does DA stand for please??  I do take your point regarding the extender lead and the reason I use it is to allow him some running exercise (I am not that fit). I am very careful with it and I am very aware of who and what is around me always, but I do take your warning. The extender did not fail in this case - it was simply that the other dog came right to us.
I took him to the agility class to stimulate him, but maybe need to find some alternative.

thanks for your replies.


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## Hairy Old Cob (6 August 2011)

Aah the Joys of Patterdale Ownership (nutter Bas*****) Patterdale = sub section of the Lakeland Fell terrier a lot were out crossed with Staffords hence their head shape rather than the true Lakelands boxy shaped head. It is just the nature of some of the species I am unconvinced about having a dog castrated helps withtemperment (could just be a Man thing) dont be afraid to be *firm*with the dog but also give plenty of praise when it is due. Ihave  had them in the Past backward summersaults on the lead screaming in temper I much prefer Black & Tan Lakelands more laid back tend not to start fights but will finish them. With regard to muzzling the dog weigh up the likely hood of the implications of your getting hold of others against likely hood of being attacked, and that has to be your decision.


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## CorvusCorax (6 August 2011)

Bin the flexi and bin the harness - you have NO control with these items. Get a martingale/half check collar and a nice long leather lead  or if you're not prepared to bin the harness, attach a long line, at least you can use two hands to reel him in if need be.

ETA - also, you set yourself a Mexican standoff by stopping and expecting the worst to happen - keep moving, don't wait and tense up and let another dog come in on top of you - can you see what happened, from your dog's point of view? You stopped and pulled him close waited and waited and the other dog arrived and he felt the need to defend himself - that was a stressful situation for your dog and you sent him the message that something was going to happen.
With the above combo you could have gone and done a few circles, heelwork, kept his attention, kept him moving, etc, kept his focus off the other dog.


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## Devonshire dumpling (6 August 2011)

I haven't really read your original post or anyones replys, i had a warm hearted smile to your title!   I have been an owner of a smooth haired Patterdale and hes turning 16 this mth... going to be blunt!!  they don't give a ***k .

My boy is sooooo sweet tempered , you could physically hurt him and he wouldn't bite you, hes great with the kids, but boy he is a killing machine!  and quite dominant with other dogs, he humps them even tho he was castrated 6mths old!  He is highly trained, gundog trained and clicker trained, the latter was an experienced trained who ended up throughing a rolled up towel at him to gain any respect.  These dogs rock and you can't tame them, they are what they are lol . Sorry been no help to whatsoever, but you will have many many years of pleasure from this remarkable breed, and ps they never slow down!

Have tried everything to stop him spinning around on the lead whilst walking from Citronella to shouting, calming, water pistols, they all just make him mad, and now at aged 16 yrs with a grade III heart murmour he is no different so I just pick him up when we see a dog lol

I forgot to add he has never bitten dogs and hes fine off the lead.. awesome dogs!


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## YasandCrystal (6 August 2011)

Ha Devonshire Dumpling - great!! He is a great character there is no doubt. When people are around he is always up to 2 legs balancing himself to get your attention. He is a very affectionate little dog and I swear he understands every word when I talk to him.
I am not scared tobe very firm with him - he has had my boot up his a*** on more than one occasion and I have a 'farm stick' I keep in the kitchen when he and the Sckipp start at each other and I just bangthe end on the ground like Nanny McPhee and he trembles and stump is clamped to his bum!  He can't help himself I know!

Cavecanam - you are exactly right - I thought 'sh** this pup is loose and coming up and yes I was wrong I should have distracted mine and walked briskly away! Hindsight eh? Well I will now know next time, but I think I will use a basket muzzle for everyone's piece of mind.

My old age dog is going to be a minature dachs!


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## YasandCrystal (6 August 2011)

I meant to say that I use the harness - one of those no pull ones, that tightens if they do, because the times he has escaped the lead even with a half choke, he wriggles and leaps backward like a worm.


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## Devonshire dumpling (6 August 2011)

HEHE glad you laughed at my most useless reply to a thread ever!!!!!!  It's just I saw the title and laughed my head off.  16 yrss I tell you!!! 16 yrs!!!!  little B*****d  hehe xx


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## YasandCrystal (6 August 2011)

Devonshire dumpling said:



			HEHE glad you laughed at my most useless reply to a thread ever!!!!!!  It's just I saw the title and laughed my head off.  16 yrss I tell you!!! 16 yrs!!!!  little B*****d  hehe xx
		
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Yes our rough coated old girl is at least 16 years and bl**dy incontinent urinary wise - well not quite incontinent - the cow walks out of the back door into our boot room and pees on the floor. I think she has slight dementia and believes she has crossed the outside door threshhold. She is such a sweet lady though - I just tolerate it and buy more bleach!

I bet hisnibs will make bloomin 18 yrs old - that would be my luck!!!


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## Devonshire dumpling (6 August 2011)

YasandCrystal said:



			Yes our rough coated old girl is at least 16 years and bl**dy incontinent urinary wise - well not quite incontinent - the cow walks out of the back door into our boot room and pees on the floor. I think she has slight dementia and believes she has crossed the outside door threshhold. She is such a sweet lady though - I just tolerate it and buy more bleach!

I bet hisnibs will make bloomin 18 yrs old - that would be my luck!!! 

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HEHE definately!  lets hope so anyway 

Have always walked mine in a veterinary leader (slightly better design to halti) if that helps you at all lol, still  laughing at my hopelessness at helping u lol!


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## CorvusCorax (7 August 2011)

YasandCrystal said:



			Cavecanam - you are exactly right - I thought 'sh** this pup is loose and coming up and yes I was wrong I should have distracted mine and walked briskly away! Hindsight eh? Well I will now know next time, but I think I will use a basket muzzle for everyone's piece of mind.
		
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For the second time tonight  I will apologise if I came across as being snarky, that was not the intention and you did ask for advice  - I used to do exactly the same - tense up as the other dog got closer and closer and then wondered why my dog exploded with hackles and teeth and noise...because I had set the situation up to end like that and it took someone else pointing that out to me for me to realise - he will still squeal a bit when we pass other dogs but at least we can pass them now!!!


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## benson21 (8 August 2011)

I am so pleased I am not the only one that finds a patterdale a handful!!!! My boy is the most loving soppiest thing you could imagine, but......if he happens to escape or slip his lead, I think his ears fall off and he just cant hear us calling!! When we do find him we have to trap him in somewhere as he will not come to us! He has had all the training and I can recall him in an closed space, but out in a field...no chance!!


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