# Weed Killer for Docks/ thistles/ nettles



## loopylouise12 (10 June 2016)

HI

what weed killer does everybody use to combat dicks/ thistles and nettles in their fields. I was recommended Grazon Pro but cannot buy it as not SQP to use it. I've got established grazing and also a 20 x 40 patch of new grass that all has weeds that are needing cleared and im going a little crazy doing it manually. 

ANY advice much appreciated.


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## PorkChop (10 June 2016)

I use Depitox, and had good results with it.

I usually strim and wait about a week for a bit of new growth and then spray


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## Dry Rot (10 June 2016)

I am sure you are buying the chemical for your contractor, aren't you?


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## JillA (10 June 2016)

Anything with MCPA in it will deal with those. some ideas here. There are restrictions on the sale of most though, so you might have to get something expensive like Grazon, just check the active ingredients for MCPA


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## SusieT (10 June 2016)

weedol/verdone has good reports and not sqp requirement


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## popsdosh (11 June 2016)

JillA said:



			Anything with MCPA in it will deal with those. some ideas here. There are restrictions on the sale of most though, so you might have to get something expensive like Grazon, just check the active ingredients for MCPA 





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None of those can be purchased without the official paperwork now


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## popsdosh (11 June 2016)

Dry Rot said:



			I am sure you are buying the chemical for your contractor, aren't you?
		
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You know thats not possible.


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## Dry Rot (11 June 2016)

popsdosh said:



			You know thats not possible.
		
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Really? There seem to be a lot of chemicals advertised on Ebay which is strange if no one is buying them. 'May' and 'can' are two words with different meanings. 

Nothing to do with me, I don't buy chemicalks off Ebay but someone pointed this out only last week and I though to myself. "Here we go again. More silly rules that anyone can get around if they want to do".

Don't forget to get your sprayer tested too.


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## LovesCobs (11 June 2016)

Had this recently changed? I bought headland polo 2 years ago, thankfully still have some left


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## JillA (11 June 2016)

LovesCobs said:



			Had this recently changed? I bought headland polo 2 years ago, thankfully still have some left
		
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Lots of them were taken off the market at the end of 2015, or restricted for use by trained specialist spray operatives. Not sure about Polo, but RelayP, the one I use to get rid of clover and buttercups certainly was. I'm hoping a local agronomist can tell me what the alternatives are when I run out in a couple of years time


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## Tyssandi (11 June 2016)

loopylouise12 said:



			HI

what weed killer does everybody use to combat dicks/ thistles and nettles in their fields. I was recommended Grazon Pro but cannot buy it as not SQP to use it. I've got established grazing and also a 20 x 40 patch of new grass that all has weeds that are needing cleared and im going a little crazy doing it manually. 

ANY advice much appreciated.
		
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We cut nettles for the horses but the rest we use SBK


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## MissTyc (11 June 2016)

I didn't even know they were not supposed to be used by anyone as there are all available on Ebay which is what I use for my purchases. I simply searched "Ragwort weed killer" and many from that list come up with buy it now option ... Surely the sellers cannot do this for restricted products?


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## LovesCobs (11 June 2016)

How easy/hard is it to become a trained specialist sprayer person?


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## Dry Rot (12 June 2016)

I gather you can still buy amateur products from places like B&Q which will be formulated and priced for your back garden lawn...so VERY expensive.

There is a growing culture in the countryside that it is only illegal if they catch you.

Not me, of course, as I am as pure as the driven snow!


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## JillA (12 June 2016)

LovesCobs said:



			How easy/hard is it to become a trained specialist sprayer person?
		
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You have to complete an accredited training course and final assessment/exam. Run by many of the agricultural colleges, and as I understand it costing several hundred ££££s


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## popsdosh (12 June 2016)

Dry Rot said:



			I gather you can still buy amateur products from places like B&Q which will be formulated and priced for your back garden lawn...so VERY expensive.

There is a growing culture in the countryside that it is only illegal if they catch you.

Not me, of course, as I am as pure as the driven snow!

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Just a quick heads up as unless the EU stop squabbling very quickly you will not be able to buy Glyphosate in any form pro or amateur use after the 1st of july when its authorisation runs out its a total nightmare to us farming and the public seem unaware. We cannot continue farming without it .
This is all down to political point scoring within Brussels again.


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## popsdosh (12 June 2016)

Dry Rot said:



			Really? There seem to be a lot of chemicals advertised on Ebay which is strange if no one is buying them. 'May' and 'can' are two words with different meanings. 

Nothing to do with me, I don't buy chemicalks off Ebay but someone pointed this out only last week and I though to myself. "Here we go again. More silly rules that anyone can get around if they want to do".

Don't forget to get your sprayer tested too. 

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You cannot buy off ebay from legitimate suppliers without the paperwork. May I suggest some of the stuff on Ebay maybe supplied by legit users with an entrepreneurial talent. Heavens forbid .


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## JillA (12 June 2016)

popsdosh said:



			Just a quick heads up as unless the EU stop squabbling very quickly you will not be able to buy Glyphosate in any form pro or amateur use after the 1st of july when its authorisation runs out its a total nightmare to us farming and the public seem unaware. We cannot continue farming without it .
This is all down to political point scoring within Brussels again.
		
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I'm told it has been shown to be carcinogenic, so good riddance as far as I am concerned. So how did farming exist before Roundup and the big companies who tell you there is a risk to your livelihoods?


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## popsdosh (12 June 2016)

JillA said:



			I'm told it has been shown to be carcinogenic, so good riddance as far as I am concerned. So how did farming exist before Roundup and the big companies who tell you there is a risk to your livelihoods?
		
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I really think if its carcinogenic it would have shown up by now!We have been using it for 40+ years and is one of the safest chemicals out there (you can drink the stuff) there was one report by the WHO which they have actually gone back on now!!!! do you believe everything you read. Farmers existed before roundup using huge amounts of diesel to cultivate land and burning straw. Both of which are not options nowadays for environmental reasons. Why should we compete with countries that can use it. Its not the companies telling us!!!  we actually know it there are large areas of land that will no longer be economic to grow crops on it is our only means of trying to keep on top of blackgrass which is taking over huge areas of arable land. Its the reason this year you are seeing large areas of brown patches in green fields.
Its all political being put about by the anti GM lobby as they know without glyphosate GM crops cannot be grown!! Just ask yourself why after 40 years has it suddenly become a danger? By the way what you advocate to apply to your paddocks is far more toxic than Glyphosate, try drinking that!


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## JillA (12 June 2016)

popsdosh said:



			I really think if its carcinogenic it would have shown up by now!
		
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Someone might have said that about cigarettes......................it is about the cumulative effect. Environmental lobby vs the companies who sell the stuff? Really?


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## Dry Rot (12 June 2016)

popsdosh said:



			You cannot buy off ebay from legitimate suppliers without the paperwork. May I suggest some of the stuff on Ebay maybe supplied by legit users with an entrepreneurial talent. Heavens forbid .
		
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I would like to see the legislation in black and white.

Old age has taught me to be sceptical of what I am told, especially on public forums. 

I can buy leg hold fox traps, sometimes called gin traps, and that is not illegal (collectors trade them regularly, even man traps!). But it is a serious offence to use one...though I have sometimes thought a few man traps might come in handy. You see them on pub walls occasionally and no one gets proscuted.


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## JillA (12 June 2016)

JillA said:



			Someone might have said that about cigarettes......................it is about the cumulative effect. Environmental lobby vs the companies who sell the stuff? Really?
		
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And from one of the admittedly environmental campaigning organisations, but presumably facts anyone can check if they so wish "Agribusiness giant Monsanto is doing everything it can to boost sales of its weedkiller Roundup, even though the World Health Organization has said that glyphosate -- Roundup's key ingredient -- is "probably carcinogenic to humans". Even worse, we just found out Monsanto and other industry groups donated $1 million to an institute with close ties to a UN panel -- the very same panel that's downplaying the link between glyphosate and cancer."


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## Dry Rot (12 June 2016)

JillA said:



			And from one of the admittedly environmental campaigning organisations, but presumably facts anyone can check if they so wish "Agribusiness giant Monsanto is doing everything it can to boost sales of its weedkiller Roundup, even though the World Health Organization has said that glyphosate -- Roundup's key ingredient -- is "probably carcinogenic to humans". Even worse, we just found out Monsanto and other industry groups donated $1 million to an institute with close ties to a UN panel -- the very same panel that's downplaying the link between glyphosate and cancer."
		
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Have a look to see what they say about a glyphosate ban on some of the farming forums. Expect food prices to rocket as farming methods are turned a few decades.


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## popsdosh (12 June 2016)

Dry Rot said:



			Have a look to see what they say about a glyphosate ban on some of the farming forums. Expect food prices to rocket as farming methods are turned a few decades.
		
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Exactly! Everybody wants farming to become more environmentally friendly by using reduced tillage methods and you cant without Glyphosate its as simple as.
What makes me laugh Jilla is after all these years the WHO report used the words probably!!! you might think they would have the actual facts by now. I dont know of any farmer who has ever had a cancer attributed to using roundup and we deal with the concentrated product all the time. All because Monsanto is the whipping boy of the environmental zealouts who have a particular gripe about GM crops. Face the fact this world will very soon run out of the capacity to feed itself

Its the same with Neonicotinoids on OSR no body yet has the proof that they cause damage to bees yet they have been banned causing us to have to spray every five days with chemicals that are more damaging to insect life in general. Whats more if people actually stop growing OSR because of it as we may well do the Bees will actually suffer more because a valuable early food source will be removed for them so there will be no bees to damage full stop. There is always a consequence to every chemical we stop using and quite often well in excess to any benefit from banning them.


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## popsdosh (12 June 2016)

Just another Fact that you may be interested by . The three worst cases of excess pesticide residues in fruit and vegetables last year found by routine monitoring in the food chain was in imported produce from countries where the regulations are less onerous. If thats not bad enough they were all certified to Organic standards so figure that out.


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## Mike007 (18 June 2016)

Dry Rot said:



			I would like to see the legislation in black and white.

Old age has taught me to be sceptical of what I am told, especially on public forums. 

I can buy leg hold fox traps, sometimes called gin traps, and that is not illegal (collectors trade them regularly, even man traps!). But it is a serious offence to use one...though I have sometimes thought a few man traps might come in handy. You see them on pub walls occasionally and no one gets proscuted.
		
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I have read the legislation and it is all rather interesting. Basicaally it boils down to having a holding number and being OVER a certain age (in the 50 s I think but dont hold me to that) or having a spraying certificate. When I was looking into this , a supplier asked me if I had a holding number ,then crypticly added "I have one ".


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## ycbm (18 June 2016)

While we are talking docks can I ask a question? I spot kill docks every year. I've done it with glyphosate and with SBK. The docks return year on year. This year I'm strimming them because it's cheaper and easier just to whip round with a cordless and strim off all the seed heads before they mature. Am I going to have any fewer docks next year or is this just a never ending battle?  I seem to be managing to contain them only to the area of the field near the gate that gets trashed in winter, so it's not too bad.


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## ycbm (18 June 2016)

JillA said:



			I'm told it has been shown to be carcinogenic, so good riddance as far as I am concerned. So how did farming exist before Roundup and the big companies who tell you there is a risk to your livelihoods?
		
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They weren't trying to feed sixty five million people in this country and seven billion in the world. It can't be done without chemicals. The population of this country during WWii was around fifty million and we were struggling to feed ourselves then and green belt wasn't disappearing under housing.


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## popsdosh (18 June 2016)

Mike007 said:



			I have read the legislation and it is all rather interesting. Basicaally it boils down to having a holding number and being OVER a certain age (in the 50 s I think but dont hold me to that) or having a spraying certificate. When I was looking into this , a supplier asked me if I had a holding number ,then crypticly added "I have one ".
		
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It has changed now as there are no grandfather rights everybody has to have the certificates it changed last year.


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## Yertis (18 June 2016)

Hasn't glyphosate been linked to MS, MD, Parkinsons and Alzheimers in humans and EMS, laminitis and cushings in horses? It now has detectable levels in bread.
We always used it on our horse fields for buttercup and dock but since these reports have topped instead as over the years have had a high incidence of laminitis and EMS, and now cushings,  which never used to have when I was a kid. Have also read that people are keeping their horses in whilst neighbouring farmers are spraying off fields because of the wind drift.


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## ycbm (18 June 2016)

Yertis said:



			Hasn't glyphosate been linked to MS, MD, Parkinsons and Alzheimers in humans and EMS, laminitis and cushings in horses? It now has detectable levels in bread.
We always used it on our horse fields for buttercup and dock but since these reports have topped instead as over the years have had a high incidence of laminitis and EMS, and now cushings,  which never used to have when I was a kid. Have also read that people are keeping their horses in whilst neighbouring farmers are spraying off fields because of the wind drift.
		
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How do you use glyphosate for buttercup?  I spot spray dock with it, but it kills absolutely everything, so how can you do you spray pasture with it for buttercup  without killing all your grass?

Wind drift of glyphosate from neighboring fields would kill the grass too, surely that would be illegal to kill someone else's grass with a wind drifted general herbicide?


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## Yertis (18 June 2016)

How do you use glyphosate for buttercup? I spot spray dock with it, but it kills absolutely everything, so how can you do you spray pasture with it for buttercup without killing all your grass?
Read more at http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/foru...ks-thistles-nettles/page4#GbSWAl5ZAiSI6lRE.99

lol !! in the normal way of killing it all off and reseeding of course 

http://naturalhealingsolutions.co.uk/about/equine-metabolic-syndrome/glyphosate/horses/


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## ycbm (18 June 2016)

Yertis said:



			How do you use glyphosate for buttercup? I spot spray dock with it, but it kills absolutely everything, so how can you do you spray pasture with it for buttercup without killing all your grass?
Read more at http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/foru...ks-thistles-nettles/page4#GbSWAl5ZAiSI6lRE.99

lol !! in the normal way of killing it all off and reseeding of course 

http://naturalhealingsolutions.co.uk/about/equine-metabolic-syndrome/glyphosate/horses/

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Wow, drastic solution to butter cup ?  Isn't it easier to alter the soil acidity, unless you want fast growing new ley, of course?


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## Yertis (18 June 2016)

Wow, drastic solution to butter cup ? Isn't it easier to alter the soil acidity, unless you want fast growing new ley, of course?      
Read more at http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/foru...ks-thistles-nettles/page4#QrVY23K6xKgGJjy7.99

Sigh!! how we manage our land really has nothing to do with whether glyphosate is good for us and the planet. We all have to look towards the future for our children and theirs, and chemical buildup, in the view of experts who know far more than me, will harm the planet, animals and humans. I am convinced by them, others are not and will continue to use them, that is your right. But sarcasm towards those of us who wish to try a less chemical way is uncalled for.


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## ycbm (18 June 2016)

Yertis said:



			Wow, drastic solution to butter cup ? Isn't it easier to alter the soil acidity, unless you want fast growing new ley, of course?      
Read more at http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/foru...ks-thistles-nettles/page4#QrVY23K6xKgGJjy7.99

Sigh!! how we manage our land really has nothing to do with whether glyphosate is good for us and the planet. We all have to look towards the future for our children and theirs, and chemical buildup, in the view of experts who know far more than me, will harm the planet, animals and humans. I am convinced by them, others are not and will continue to use them, that is your right. But sarcasm towards those of us who wish to try a less chemical way is uncalled for.
		
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There was no sarcasm in my response.


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## JillA (18 June 2016)

ycbm said:



			Wow, drastic solution to butter cup ?  Isn't it easier to alter the soil acidity, unless you want fast growing new ley, of course?
		
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I have had mine limed twice, even though the Ph was neutral. Once buttercups are there, they have underground rhizomes and keep coming back. I sprayed with RelayP which contained mecaprop and dicambar, among other things, but the general consensus is you need to spray every three years, and I have noticed those I "killed" last year are beginning to come back. Other than soil Ph, I'd love to find an organic way to eradicate them, isn't there something that thrives on eating them??? (You could zap them with glyphosate if you used a weed wipe but it wouldn't be brilliant as it would only wipe the flower heads, not the leaves)


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## ycbm (18 June 2016)

It seems like a real problem for people who need it gone 

I'm very lucky, I have so much room for two horses that I don't need to eradicate the buttercup and I actually like the bright yellow cheerfulness. My land is irredeemably acidic hill grazing. Luckily my boys don't get buttercup burn.

Can anyone answer my question above on strimming dock?


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## Suelin (18 June 2016)

There are courses available for less than £200 if you need to get certificated.  I have just applied.


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## Dry Rot (18 June 2016)

Harrowing is said to reduce buttercups by ripping out the rhizomes. I seem to have fewer. I am also topping to try to reduce the number of flowers which will ultimately reduce seed. Somehow I suspect I am wasting my time!


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