# What do I do with a horse I can't ride?



## Berkeley (27 October 2010)

Ok - I need your thoughts on this one. 

21yr old ex racer. Bloody nightmare to ride. She was never retrained and so whenever you go out you have to either walk or gallop. There is no inbetween. No one wants to ride with us as she is crazy. Last week I rode her for the first time in 4 weeks. She was full of it. Dancing, springing and eventually bolted off with me. 

I have had lessons - people say I need to bring her inline but I don't have the time and I don't particularly want to spend the time doing that. I don't have the nerve. She frightens me.

Could I sell her? No - tried that and couldn't bare anyone abusing her - not necessarily physically.

Could I Loan her - possibly. 

Could I PTS? ......?

What does one do in this situation? She is clearly not the horse for me.


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## Lollii (27 October 2010)

Can you give her away as a brood mare (maybe to old?) or a companion?

If you can't I would think about pts but it seems a bit sad to do that.


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## PonyFeet10 (27 October 2010)

How about sending her away to be professionally re-schooled and go from there? After, if all goes well you could try working with her again, or then put her on loan  If she's fit and healthy in all other respects I would be very reluctant to have her pts.


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## Amymay (27 October 2010)

She may well make a wonderful companion - if you can find the right home.

However, if not - just retire her...


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## Amymay (27 October 2010)

How about sending her away to be professionally re-schooled and go from there?
		
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At 21???


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## Lady La La (27 October 2010)

How long have you owned her, and did you deliberately buy an unschool ex racer?
I know she's 21 but this may not be too old for her to go away and have some basic training, if anything just to make her a more straightforward hack?


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## Lady La La (27 October 2010)

amymay said:



			At 21???
		
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Oh maybe it is then! 

In which case, can you not retire her like AmyMay said?


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## Taboo1968 (27 October 2010)

If you really feel this is not the horse for you and you cannot do anything with it, I honestly think the kindest thing to do would be PTS instead of passing on the problems to someone else.  21 is a good age.......


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## Berkeley (27 October 2010)

Lady La La said:



			Oh maybe it is then! 

In which case, can you not retire her like AmyMay said?
		
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Any pay £350 p/m for something I can't use? Pah!


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## miss_bird (27 October 2010)

Her age is slightly against her on this.
too old to start a career as a broodmare, loan wise most people only take a horse on loan at that age if they are schoolmasters.
I would look at getting some reschooling done, enough that you can both enjoy your time together.
With pts being the final option


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## Amymay (27 October 2010)

Berkeley said:



			Any pay £350 p/m for something I can't use? Pah!
		
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Well if you feel like that, have it put down.

Does no one retire their horses any more


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## Groom42 (27 October 2010)

I am totally against the suggestion of using her as a brood mare.  There is enough "just because" breeding going on, and we need to discourage it, not encourage it.
If she is a genuine sweetheart, then maybe a companion home would be suitable, if it was to someone you know personally, and trust. However, there is always the possibility that she would come winging her way back.  It seems harsh, but really "companion" in this case could become "cop out".  If she frightens you, and is patently unsafe to ride (albeit not entirely her fault) I think it wouyld be irresponsible to pass her to someone else, who may well decide to try and ride, then be seriously injured or worse.
I am sure there will be lots of other details we are not party to, but on what we have been told, I would say Lead Poultice.
We seem to have had about three similar posts in as many days, and the general consensus has been the same.


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## Groom42 (27 October 2010)

Berkeley said:



			Any pay £350 p/m for something I can't use? Pah!
		
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It costs as much to keep a good'un as a bad'un.


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## PonyFeet10 (27 October 2010)

amymay said:



			At 21???
		
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Yes at 21. There is no reason why an older horse can not learn if she's put in the right hands. My tb had stood in a stable since she was approx 4/5yo until her late teens which is when i bought her. She hadn't been ridden in years, would be vicious (biting, kicking, rearing, napping) and now very successfully competes in showjumping/XC and needless to say she hasn't bitten, kicked, reared or napped in years. Yes it took a long time but she got there. With patience and perseverance I think she could be turned around.


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## Berkeley (27 October 2010)

Groom42 said:



			Lead Poultice. QUOTE]

What's that!?
		
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## Groom42 (27 October 2010)

Berkeley said:





Groom42 said:



			Lead Poultice. QUOTE]

What's that!?
		
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Bullet.
		
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## Amymay (27 October 2010)

Berkeley said:





Groom42 said:



			Lead Poultice.
		
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			What's that!?
		
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A bullet.
		
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## Alibear (27 October 2010)

Reading your post I would have say PTS, finding her a good future home is unlikely and will require a lot of hard work and effort. 
At least with PTs nothing bad can happen to her, a 21 year old unradeable TB has a very doubtful future if not owned by someone 100% comitted to her care to the very end.


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## Flash_28 (27 October 2010)

PonyFeet10 said:



			Yes at 21. There is no reason why an older horse can not learn if she's put in the right hands. My tb had stood in a stable since she was approx 4/5yo until her late teens which is when i bought her. She hadn't been ridden in years, would be vicious (biting, kicking, rearing, napping) and now very successfully competes in showjumping/XC and needless to say she hasn't bitten, kicked, reared or napped in years. Yes it took a long time but she got there. With patience and perseverance I think she could be turned around.
		
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Agreed.

I have a 21yo almost 22yo TB mare who is still full of beans and loving her work. She was a rescue and total nut nut. It has taken us years and we are now working on ridden work. She is loving it and so am I. I don't see why she wouldn't be able to be gently reschooled for light work. Having said that if I couldn't ride her tomorrow I would be retiring her and keeping her.


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## NeedNewHorse (27 October 2010)

How long have you had her???

Why did you buy her??


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## posie_honey (27 October 2010)

honestly... i'd have her PTS


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## siennamum (27 October 2010)

Have you had any expert advice about whether she could have some reschooling. Your mare has had a long break during which time you have been feeding for weight gain (I think) so I would have expected her to be a nutter tbh.

Some 21 year olds are perfectly able to have some basic reschooling to make them more civilised. Some are too set in their ways or are scatty because of underlying pain. If you are confident that this is the case with your mare, then in your shoes I would PTS if I couldn't afford to retire her. You've given her a few lovely years, she won't have come to a bad end.


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## Cedars (27 October 2010)

Bullet. But find it sad people dont seem to retire their horses anymore.


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## Berkeley (27 October 2010)

heidirusso said:



			How long have you had her???

Why did you buy her??
		
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4 yrs. She was gifted to me at a time when I thought a green horse was a type of colour


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## Libbylou (27 October 2010)

Berkeley said:



			people say I need to bring her inline but I don't have the time and I don't particularly want to spend the time doing that. I don't have the nerve. She frightens me.
		
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imo you have to spend time with any horse be it a school master or a nutter, you could try re-schooling her but you dont want to spend the time ?? send her away but will you have the time to ride her once she has been reschooled ?

All horse need time........

You could sell her being honest on project horse, loan her as a companion but you may never see her again... or have her pts in the comfort of her own field.


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## SusieT (27 October 2010)

Retire her gracefully, if necessary seek out someone else with a retired horse who needs company. Obviously it needs  done carefully. But then I'm not a big believed in just shooting something because it no longer does the job. Maybe why my fields are still full of happy fat retirees that give me a lot of pleasure by being there.


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## Lady La La (27 October 2010)

What have you done with her over the last 4 years?
I think if you're not willing or able to retire her, and don't think some basic re schooling is an option then I guess there's no other option but to PTS, that or she may well end up being passed around, and ending up in unsuitable hands.
Not a nice situation for you


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## SusieT (27 October 2010)

Here's another solution-offer free riding to someone in the local area, who is decent enough to do a bit of schooling. you might not get a world class rider but you might find a local lass/lad who is just glad to have a horse to play with. Seems a bit unfair that becaus eno-one has ever bothered to put a bit of schoooling in she is thrown on the dump heap.


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## lochpearl (27 October 2010)

this is a joke right???


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## MissMincePie&Brandy (27 October 2010)

amymay said:



			Does no one retire their horses any more

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Yes, I do, and I'm all the poorer for it, but wouldn't have it any other way!


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## Amymay (27 October 2010)

Seems a bit unfair that becaus eno-one has ever bothered to put a bit of schoooling in she is thrown on the dump heap.
		
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Doesn't it just??

Poor mare.


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## Tempi (27 October 2010)

Wow - it seems that as soon as a horse is no longer rideable people will just PTS these days.

I would find a nice retirement home for her, if you go on google there will be ones around your area i am sure.  

My horse will be with me for life until the time comes when she is in physical pain and/or her quality of life has deteriorated.  Im not just going to have her shot when the time comes that she is no longer rideable!


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## Lady La La (27 October 2010)

OP - A friend has her mare in retirement livery near your way, if you want I can PM you the details? I know it does cost her, obviously... But, her little girl is now living out her twilight years with company and good grass!


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## Pixxie (27 October 2010)

retire her with dignity
she deserves it doesnt she?


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## PurplePickle (27 October 2010)

reading what youve put :

youve had her 4 years , as already said what happened during that time.

  has this problem only just arisen? as you said you hadnt ridden her for 4 weeks or have you not ridden her much at all? 


you say she scares you, in which case she may well be trying it on and wont do with someone else. 

You also seem to come across as a novice rider? as you said you didnt know what a green horse was 4 yrs ago. 

with all that in mind id say pop her on project horses  for loan view to buy, find someone who will have fun with her, if you were experienced id say PTS but theres something telling me all avenues havent been explored with this 0one. could be wrong but thats my two penneth


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## misst (27 October 2010)

I think if you take on an older horse with "issues" then you have a responsibility to them. We have a 26yo that is no longer ridden due to stiffness and being a cowbag She has a home till she is not able to enjoy life anymore, she has been retired for 5 years. We PTS a 12yo this year due to poor quality of life (not paddock sound on bute) but kept him unridden for 2 years prior to that. 

You ask what can you do with it? Not much I am afraid. I think realistically you either retire or PTS whichever seems right for you and her. Money does matter but maybe you can find a cheaper way to keep her?


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## MissMincePie&Brandy (27 October 2010)

OK, here is what i do with my ex racehorse who can no longer be ridden.  Groundwork, lots of it and games too.  It sounds silly but tricks for treats forms a bond with the horse and it's quite fun. My horse is not ridden, but he's not neglected and all the groundwork has actually improved his manners and respect for me. If he'll trot up sound in hand next spring, I hope to do some in hand showing.

Good luck with your horse.


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## Chestnuttymare (27 October 2010)

so when you got her and thought that you were getting a 'green' horse, did you actually think that you were getting that colour of horse??? Could you actually ride at that time. Have you had anyone else ride her. Perhaps you are confused with the aids that ask for the gaits inbetween walk and gallop. 
I can't believe that you have kept her for 4 years and finally now, at the age of 21, you have decided she is not the horse for you.
This is why I object to ex racehorses being given away or sold cheap, they end up going to numpties who have no idea!
Sorry but it gets my goat.
I would get someone who knows what they are about, ie from racing rehab centre, to come and see what they think and if she is as bad as you make out then take it from there.
Poor mare!


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## Berkeley (27 October 2010)

lochpearl said:



			this is a joke right???
		
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There's always one....


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## MrsMozart (27 October 2010)

amymay said:



			Well if you feel like that, have it put down.

Does no one retire their horses any more

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Got two eating their heads off in the field


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## Berkeley (27 October 2010)

Misinterpreted said:



			OK, here is what i do with my ex racehorse who can no longer be ridden.  Groundwork, lots of it and games too.  It sounds silly but tricks for treats forms a bond with the horse and it's quite fun. My horse is not ridden, but he's not neglected and all the groundwork has actually improved his manners and respect for me. If he'll trot up sound in hand next spring, I hope to do some in hand showing.

Good luck with your horse.
		
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I like this idea - what sort of games?!


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## Becca-84 (27 October 2010)

Berkeley said:



			Any pay £350 p/m for something I can't use? Pah!
		
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OMG! I have to say I'm a little bit shocked at your comment here! It seems very....cold! I was given a little pony on loan which I was 11/12yrs old. We were told she was late teens/early twenties. Turns out she was late 20's. Anyway, point is, she was a nightmare when I started riding her - bucking/rearing/spinning/napping - you name it, she tried it on. So I started having lessons on her (not realising quite how old she was). After 6 months of lessons and a new saddle we were hacking out on our own and doing local gymkhanas/clear round jumping.

My point is, I don't think 21 is too old to re-school. You CAN teach an old dog (horse in this case lol) new tricks. BUT, it will take time and patience. If you can't give her that time and are not willing to give her a happy loving home for retirement, then find somebody who willl. Someone suggested advertising her as a project horse - start there. If you don't get anywhere, then think again but just to PTS because you don't have the time to work with her is a little unfair IMHO.


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## Pearlsasinger (27 October 2010)

IMO you have 2 choices, either retire or pts.
This seems to me like a classic case of someone passing on their own problems.  Who on earth gifts a 21 yr old ex-racer with schooling problems  to someone who has no more horse knowledge & experience than to "think that a green horse is type of colour"?

ETA, all ours can expect as long and happy retirement as possible after they are unable to work.  We feel that we owe them that, after all that they have done for us over the years.  We have kept a retired horse at livery but it is certainly easier and cheaper now that they are at home. But we acquired them as riding/driving horses when they were quite capable of doing the job - not as some-one else's cast off of dubious value.


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## Bowen4Horses (27 October 2010)

if you've had her for 4 years, then you bought her when she was already an older horse... you knew she had issues... so, surely you realised this situation might arise? 
in my opinion you owe it to her to either find her a decent loan home, or retire her somewhere nice. 

i know it's easy to pts, but do you really think you've given her the best chance poosible? i know it would haunt me unless i knew i'd tried my absolute hardest to do everything else first. perhaps you should exhaust other avenues. 

good luck. xx


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## Enfys (27 October 2010)

Ok then.

The way I look at decisions like this is:

How would you *feel* if you decided to have her pts? 
Relief? Regret? Guilt?  Ditto the other alternatives. I go with the one that makes me feel as if the looming black cloud of indecision has been lifted.

Personally, if I had a horse that I didn't have the facilities for/couldn't afford to keep/didn't want to pay that much for to keep (and I am making no judgements here) I would have her pts. 

She's getting on, she could go on for years without health problems, or not. She could be fine for someone else to ride, or she could kill someone - be that a driver, an innocent bystander or her rider. I wouldn't pass on that responsibility, or risk. 

You could go down the companion road if you haven't already, but a Tb is an expensive hay burning 'pet' and takers for her would probably be few and far between.

I don't believe horses know that any particular day is going to be their last one, mine go with their head in a bucket of oats thinking about nothing but grub. There are worse things than a well placed bullet.

Out of curiosity, to those that say retire her, or pay the 350 pcm, could you, would you, give her a home then?


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## Berkeley (27 October 2010)

chestnuttymare said:



			so when you got her and thought that you were getting a 'green' horse, did you actually think that you were getting that colour of horse???
		
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Um....no. Jesus.


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## Berkeley (27 October 2010)

chestnuttymare said:



			so when you got her and thought that you were getting a 'green' horse, did you actually think that you were getting that colour of horse??? Could you actually ride at that time. Have you had anyone else ride her. Perhaps you are confused with the aids that ask for the gaits inbetween walk and gallop. 
I can't believe that you have kept her for 4 years and finally now, at the age of 21, you have decided she is not the horse for you.
This is why I object to ex racehorses being given away or sold cheap, they end up going to numpties who have no idea!
Sorry but it gets my goat.
I would get someone who knows what they are about, ie from racing rehab centre, to come and see what they think and if she is as bad as you make out then take it from there.
Poor mare!
		
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I would be very careful about your insults. Do not offend me. I put this up for discussion. It does not warrant wholly misconceived responses. If I receive any further insults I will report this. Its not on.


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## Berkeley (27 October 2010)

Listen guys the level of intellect has descended into a kiddies play party with too much sugar. I am not finding this useful. 

Carry on without me.


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## lochpearl (27 October 2010)

Berkeley said:



			There's always one....
		
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Always one what? I actually thought you were joking as I couldn't believe anyone could actually mean a post like this.

Also referring to your previous posts, you have mentioned that she is fantastic now she has moved yards. I agree that she does not sound suited to you, I think you would be better off with a riding school horse/push button ride that can compensate for your noviceness, an ex racer was certainly not the best idea! 

I also note you thought her colour was 'green' rather than it meaning she was very inexperienced  - surely no-one is that thick? 

And no, don't try and palm her off on a rescue, after all, you couldn't be bothered to wait for a fluffy kitten from a rescue centre, you just had to have one now! 

Personally if you aren't trolling with this post I think you should re-home her with someone who has the knowledge and not replace her with anything but a stuffed toy!

You have money to spend on a 4x4 but not on her retirement - NICE!


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## Cedars (27 October 2010)

Berkeley you need to get a bit of a grip! People are being really helpful and you think THIS is bad for insults? They're only getting started....people are being really helpful, take the advice.


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## misst (27 October 2010)

Berkeley said:



			Listen guys the level of intellect has descended into a kiddies play party with too much sugar. I am not finding this useful. 

Carry on without me.
		
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I think you have received some well thought out replies on here. Just because you do not agree with them all doesn't mean they are wrong. You asked the question in the first place.


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## Cedars (27 October 2010)

lochpearl said:



			Always one what? I actually thought you were joking as I couldn't believe anyone could actually mean a post like this.

Also referring to your previous posts, you have mentioned that she is fantastic now she has moved yards. I agree that she does not sound suited to you, I think you would be better off with a riding school horse/push button ride that can compensate for your noviceness, an ex racer was certainly not the best idea! 

I also note you thought her colour was 'green' rather than it meaning she was very inexperienced  - surely no-one is that thick? 

And no, don't try and palm her off on a rescue, after all, you couldn't be bothered to wait for a fluffy kitten from a rescue centre, you just had to have one now! 

Personally if you aren't trolling with this post I think you should re-home her with someone who has the knowledge and not replace her with anything but a stuffed toy!

You have money to spend on a 4x4 but not on her retirement - NICE!
		
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Irony, darling.


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## Amymay (27 October 2010)

flamehead said:



			Irony, darling.
		
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Eh???


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## Berkeley (27 October 2010)

misst said:



			Just because you do not agree with them all doesn't mean they are wrong.
		
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I don't agree I am a numptie. I don't think anyone would. Adverse criticism is fine.


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## Lady La La (27 October 2010)

Berkeley said:



			Listen guys the level of intellect has descended into a kiddies play party with too much sugar. I am not finding this useful. 

Carry on without me.
		
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May I suggest this is because you have not recieved the kind of comments you were hoping for?
I fail to see how you could not have found anything added to this thread useful. People have offered you ideas to work with your mare in and out of the saddle, they have suggested retirement livery's, I even offered to PM you with details of one in Kent.
People seem to have been compassionate, and offered you support in your decision making, but ultimately, You do not want to hear, do you?
You have already made your decision.


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## Pixxie (27 October 2010)

flamehead said:



			Irony, darling.
		
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EH??? very confused by this


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## Scranny_Ann (27 October 2010)

Sounds like you've lost the will with her for various reasons, the main being you're scared of her - fair enough.

Her age is against her as well as her behaviour.

I know it doesn't suit everyone but when i grew out of my first pony i couldn't sell her on, various reasons - i was attached to her, she was part of the family and being 12.2 and completely bonkers/waaaay too strong etc i kept her and retired her ridden career.

She still had fun, fuss, love and a routine.  Walks at the weekends, just general fun times etc.  She became a friend and more like one of the dogs lol

She was pts last year at the wonderful age of 34 

I'm very glad i kept her and although paid out hundreds for 'something i couldn't ride' i don't regret a day.

Maybe you could consider doing the same??

I know it's just not reasonable in certain circumstances e.g finance.  I always accepted i couldn't afford to have two horses and have only just bought my new mare.

Good luck with whatever you decide


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## Berkeley (27 October 2010)

amymay said:



			Eh???
		
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She doesn't know what Irony means lol!


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## AndySpooner (27 October 2010)

Obviously, from whats been said by the OP he doesn't want to spend £350 a month on a horse he cannot ride, as he is obviously at a yard he cannot retire at home.

If nobody wants this horse, who can look after her well, and maybe get some fun out of her, then she should be shot.

However, our 'green horse' owner here, sounds pretty 'green' himself, and I wouldn't mind betting a nice competant rider might make a difference. 

(Some groundwork and a decent diet might help too).


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## lochpearl (27 October 2010)

Andy - he is a she lol! and she likes all things fluffy and new!!


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## MissMincePie&Brandy (27 October 2010)

Berkeley said:



			I like this idea - what sort of games?!
		
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What I do, sounds quite silly, but I'm not allowed to lunge him either, so I just play around doing things which are low impact on his joints. He's only 9yrs old, and has recently been retired due to KS, navicular, PSD and arthritic changes. He's so young, I couldnt bear not doing anything to stimulate his mind. I'll probably think of more games as times goes on.  I hope no one takes the Mickey!  

I can get him to weave through cones using my arm signals (my greatest achievement). They are placed far enough apart, so he isn't having to twist too much. He gets treats at the end. 

If you say 'say please' and point to his near fore, he'll lift it up for you, and the same with his off fore. he gets treats when he does it right.

I do a voice command work, asking him to make transitions between walk and halt in a straight line. With me standing as far away as possible. 

I do long Reining in walk too.

The thing that he enjoys most with me though is the mutual grooming. He loves it when I scratch his withers, and he nuzzles my arm. He's also learnt that if he shows me where he has a scratchy area I'll scratch it for him, and when i get the right place his lip goes all quivery.


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## AndySpooner (27 October 2010)

lochpearl said:



			Andy - he is a she lol! and she likes all things fluffy and new!!
		
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Oops sorry!


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## Berkeley (27 October 2010)

Misinterpreted said:



			What I do, sounds quite silly, but I'm not allowed to lunge him either, so I just play around doing things which are low impact on his joints. He's only 9yrs old, and has recently been retired due to KS, navicular, PSD and arthritic changes. He's so young, I couldnt bear not doing anything to stimulate his mind. I'll probably think of more games as times goes on.  I hope no one takes the Mickey!  

I can get him to weave through cones using my arm signals (my greatest achievement). They are placed far enough apart, so he isn't having to twist too much. He gets treats at the end. 

If you say 'say please' and point to his near fore, he'll lift it up for you, and the same with his off fore. he gets treats when he does it right.

I do a voice command work, asking him to make transitions between walk and halt in a straight line. With me standing as far away as possible. 

I do long Reining in walk too.

The thing that he enjoys most with me though is the mutual grooming. He loves it when I scratch his withers, and he nuzzles my arm. He's also learnt that if he shows me where he has a scratchy area I'll scratch it for him, and when i get the right place his lip goes all quivery. 

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Thats sounds super. 

I am at a loss at the moment. I rescued her from a place where she was left 24/7. She wasn't in the best of health. I was suffering from depression, as I think she was, so I took her on. It was just something about her that I loved. I knew very little about the level of competency I needed for her but I took her anyway. She is too much for me. I think if I did retire her I would move her somewhere cheaper as I am on full livery at the moment. I am also thinking about loaning her to one of the girls at my yard who loves a bit of fun but she goes away next yr. PTS is the last resort but something to consider if it came to it. Just not sure yet. I will try those games, they seem great - certainly for bonding.


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## MissMincePie&Brandy (27 October 2010)

Berkeley said:



			Thats sounds super. 

I am at a loss at the moment. I rescued her from a place where she was left 24/7. She wasn't in the best of health. I was suffering from depression, as I think she was, so I took her on. It was just something about her that I loved. I knew very little about the level of competency I needed for her but I took her anyway. She is too much for me. I think if I did retire her I would move her somewhere cheaper as I am on full livery at the moment. I am also thinking about loaning her to one of the girls at my yard who loves a bit of fun but she goes away next yr. PTS is the last resort but something to consider if it came to it. Just not sure yet. I will try those games, they seem great - certainly for bonding.
		
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To start with, just try forming a bond with her and seeing if she likes the mutual grooming

Then Long reining might be a good place to start, and that will be teaching her to respect your aids and will be useful for your ridden work too.

If you can afford, get some lessons with a good instructor.  I think that would help a great deal, and you might find the problems you are having can be corrected more easily than you thought.


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## fatpiggy (27 October 2010)

Well, assuming this isn't a troll post the previous owner of the horse certainly knew a mug when they saw one.  My 27year old has been retired for 4 years, costs me an absolute fortune to keep and has destroyed just about every other part of my life, but I still get as much pleasure from just watching and interacting with her as I did when I bought her 16 years ago. She brought me hours of fun and pleasure and now I am paying back that debt. She has her problems but her quality of life is pretty good, she potters about with her buddies, dozes in the sun like a lizard and seeing her gorgeous face waiting for me morning and evening cheers me up every time.  However, if the OP isn't prepared to put the work in then I'm afraid I'm all in favour of a quick end to it all.  There are two other elderlies with mine. Their owner has gone away leaving them on a bare, muddy field (we don't know when she is due back), they haven't had their rugs touched  since last week and they are looking neglected and stressed. Even when she is home she spends all her time with the recently taken on part-loan and ignores the simple needs of her own animals.  The only good thing that will come out of the demise of my old girl is that I won't have to watch these numpties who shouldn't have a plastic horse, let alone a living breathing one, for a moment longer.


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## DAA83 (27 October 2010)

lochpearl said:



			Andy - he is a she lol! and she likes all things fluffy and new!!
		
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That is a very clever and helpful response. I'm sure when the OP asked for people's opinions on what is no doubt a very sensitive matter she actually meant 'can people with nothing better to do than visit message boards with the sole purpose of being a troll please insult me'.

You clearly have a personal vendetta against the OP so why not just say what you mean rather than trying to place yourself on a higher plain that the rest of us.


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## Cedars (27 October 2010)

"I also note you thought her colour was 'green' rather than it meaning she was very inexperienced - surely no-one is that thick? "

AmyMay - the comment from the OP about colour is sarcasm!


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## lochpearl (27 October 2010)

DAA83 said:



			That is a very clever and helpful response. I'm sure when the OP asked for people's opinions on what is no doubt a very sensitive matter she actually meant 'can people with nothing better to do than visit message boards with the sole purpose of being a troll please insult me'.

You clearly have a personal vendetta against the OP so why not just say what you mean rather than trying to place yourself on a higher plain that the rest of us.
		
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Fab username by the way! and no I have no idea who this person is. This post however has completely shocked me that it is real and that someone could be so flippant. On looking back through her posts and looking at her signature, the horse seems to be fantastic and well loved, then to read this post where there is nothing nice, or helpful to say it was a shock.

If however she had said that she as having problems with the horse, it was doing what it was doing and she didn't know what to do, should she loan her out, get a friend to ride, sell her, pts etc and give more ideas rather than making out her only option was to pts as she wasn't going to spend £350 on her keep if she couldn't ride her, then perhaps people would be a little more helpful and understanding. And as for my comments I have not said anything untrue.

It seems that you have been drafted in to stick up for her, she has made a post that has backfired and people have given honest comments - this is a forum! Then she runs off hiding. Truth hurts eh? 

And no, I have never been a troll, always the same username and always the same opinions!


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## Dancing Queen (27 October 2010)

some of the comments from individuals have really upset me, i cant seem to understand how some people can be so cold and hard.

some people are really compassionate some are downright hardhearted. 

to OP:

You have options:
get her reschooled (can be done), retire her or give her away as a companion, but for gods sake dont 'shoot her' giver her a 'lead poultice' all because you cant be arsed to be a responsible owner. 

Animals have a right to see out their days, they should not be viewed as disposable items, once you have had enough shoot it, that is damn wrong. That animal has done nothing wrong just that you cant ride it so becuase of your inexperience she could be killed. how is that right?

i will not be visiting this thread again as im quite saddened by the comments and opinions of supposed horselovers.


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## Cedars (27 October 2010)

Mollylolly. Take my mare.

If she doesnt come back to ridden work after ks surgery, we will probably have her put to sleep.

She is a horrid mare to be around, bites and kicks. She is a fairly good doer but needs hay in the winter. She costs us a fortune in rugs. She ruins our fields because if we take her friends out she churns them up like something else. She costs us a small fortune, all in all. So, our options would be:

Sell her. We couldnt really afford to keep her, particularly not with another horse. She's a pretty face and a nice age and height. Could we guarantee that someone would NEVER ride her? Well, no. So, she could go to a home thats downright horrid, they make her work and god forbid she rears up and over again and, this time, kills someone. So, in my view, selling her isnt an option.

Loan her. Same problem as above with riding. And, even if someone wouldnt try to ride her - shes not a companion. She has such bad separation anxiety that you would need a companion for her! So nobody would take her as a companion. She's not a project because she wouldnt be able to be ridden again.

We COULD leave her in our field, but we cannot afford her. So, what would we cut back on? Her feed? So she starves. Her shoeing? So she can't walk. 

Cant you see that actually, being PTS is the BEST option for her?

This is hypothetical because hopefully she'll come back fine, but we'll see. For what its worth, YOUR comments upset ME because they're extremely naive.


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## Berkeley (27 October 2010)

lochpearl said:



			Fab username by the way! and no I have no idea who this person is. This post however has completely shocked me that it is real and that someone could be so flippant. On looking back through her posts and looking at her signature, the horse seems to be fantastic and well loved, then to read this post where there is nothing nice, or helpful to say it was a shock.

If however she had said that she as having problems with the horse, it was doing what it was doing and she didn't know what to do, should she loan her out, get a friend to ride, sell her, pts etc and give more ideas rather than making out her only option was to pts as she wasn't going to spend £350 on her keep if she couldn't ride her, then perhaps people would be a little more helpful and understanding. And as for my comments I have not said anything untrue.

It seems that you have been drafted in to stick up for her, she has made a post that has backfired and people have given honest comments - this is a forum! Then she runs off hiding. Truth hurts eh? 

And no, I have never been a troll, always the same username and always the same opinions!
		
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Drafted? I don't need any help I litigate for a living. I am most vexed with being called a numptie - this is vexatious and unpleasant.


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## Slightly Foxed (27 October 2010)

lochpearl said:



			If however she had said that she as having problems with the horse, it was doing what it was doing and she didn't know what to do, should she loan her out, get a friend to ride, sell her, pts etc and give more ideas rather than making out her only option was to pts as she wasn't going to spend £350 on her keep if she couldn't ride her, then perhaps people would be a little more helpful and understanding. And as for my comments I have not said anything untrue.
QUOTE]

Yes, perhaps the OP could have phrased her query better but, to be fair, it seems from later posts that she's up for considering options other than pts. 

Until last year I had three retirees (now have two, one had to be put down at the ripe old age of 37) but I do have my own land so no livery costs to pay. I believe in letting horses see out their days in peace if at all possible; how would it sound if I said I was considering shooting my old dog 'cos he couldn't go on long walks any more?
		
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## Vixxy (27 October 2010)

mollylolly said:



			some of the comments from individuals have really upset me, i cant seem to understand how some people can be so cold and hard.

some people are really compassionate some are downright hardhearted. 

to OP:

You have options:
get her reschooled (can be done), retire her or give her away as a companion, but for gods sake dont 'shoot her' giver her a 'lead poultice' all because you cant be arsed to be a responsible owner. 

Animals have a right to see out their days, they should not be viewed as disposable items, once you have had enough shoot it, that is damn wrong. That animal has done nothing wrong just that you cant ride it so becuase of your inexperience she could be killed. how is that right?

i will not be visiting this thread again as im quite saddened by the comments and opinions of supposed horselovers.
		
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Sadly I think people are a little shocked at the lack of thought that went into the buy in the first place, I know I was! If my riding was not up to riding a fizzy ex racehorse that had not been re schooled I 100% would not have bought it, no matter how cheap or free. If I felt it was in need I would have called one of the horse welfare charities. You buy an ageing horse you expect to have to take the cost of retiring it. I think the comments made were asking for angry replies.


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## KS1 (27 October 2010)

I hate it when people put horses to sleep just because they can't be bothered to help the horse or they can't ride it for one reason or another.

It is people who ruin horses then its the horse that suffers for it..

I have a 22 yr old and when it comes to where he can't be ridden then he will live as a happy lawn mower for the rest of his life. I would never dream of PTS just because he couldn't be ridden anymore.

Best thing you can do is give him up as a companion for FREE to a good home that you can have vetted.


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## nativetyponies (27 October 2010)

You certainly sound more vexed than a vexed thing in vexville.

no wonder you're vexatious


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## Dancing Queen (27 October 2010)

p.s if you cant afford them even when they need you the most and they cant give you anything back then dont have them. I have had horses for well over 24 years now and i will only take them on if i can afford it and thank god i can.

im getting quite fed up with people saying im quite naive -  no i am not. I thought that by joining this forum i would be able to have proper converstaions with like minded people - obviously this is not the case. I am only naive because you dont agree with my comments and my feelings for the animals.

I think joining this place was the wrong thing to do as my afternoon has been spent shocked at the approaches and opinions some of you have.

so not im not naive just a kind hearted caring person who has and will look after the horses for as long as i can, because i love them for them and the love they give me not what i cna get out of them.

thank you and good night.


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## Lady La La (27 October 2010)

nativeponies said:



			You certainly sound more vexed than a vexed thing in vexville.

no wonder you're vaxatious
		
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HHO *really* needs a like button.


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## nativetyponies (27 October 2010)

KS1 said:



			Best thing you can do is give him up as a companion for FREE to a good home that you can have vetted.
		
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oh good grief....

**bangs head on wall**

havent you read the thread started by thatsmygirl?

have a quick read..and reconsider your ill-thought out advice


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## Berkeley (27 October 2010)

nativeponies said:



			You certainly sound more vexed than a vexed thing in vexville.

no wonder you're vaxatious
		
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how vexing


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## KS1 (27 October 2010)

Berkeley said:



			Any pay £350 p/m for something I can't use? Pah!
		
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Jeez what a heartless person you are, you should not have bought this horse in the first place, you say selling is not an option as she may be mistreated, well, your the last person I'd sell to.  

You are not experienced for an ex-racehorse and becuaes of that the horse gets it..

You disgust me..


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## Spudlet (27 October 2010)

I think it's sad retirement seems not to be an option, but if it isn't then PTS is not the worst thing you could do.

Giving to a charity is not going to be a goer, as I suspect most will be trying to save space for welfare cases over the winter months. And giving away as a companion is fraught with risks for the horse.

In hand work, little tricks, maybe clicker training, could be fun things for you and her to do and I think would be worth a try.


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## DAA83 (27 October 2010)

lochpearl said:



			Fab username by the way! and no I have no idea who this person is. This post however has completely shocked me that it is real and that someone could be so flippant. On looking back through her posts and looking at her signature, the horse seems to be fantastic and well loved, then to read this post where there is nothing nice, or helpful to say it was a shock.

If however she had said that she as having problems with the horse, it was doing what it was doing and she didn't know what to do, should she loan her out, get a friend to ride, sell her, pts etc and give more ideas rather than making out her only option was to pts as she wasn't going to spend £350 on her keep if she couldn't ride her, then perhaps people would be a little more helpful and understanding. And as for my comments I have not said anything untrue.

It seems that you have been drafted in to stick up for her, she has made a post that has backfired and people have given honest comments - this is a forum! Then she runs off hiding. Truth hurts eh? 

And no, I have never been a troll, always the same username and always the same opinions!
		
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What a load of b*****ks - you are defending your pointless response on the basis that the OP didn't put her question forward in exactly the way you wanted! Would it have helped if she used a different font? I think if you read the post you will see another option with the word possibly.

I disagree with your assessment that the post has backfired because there have been a lot of useful responses, it just so happens that non of them have come from you. Yes I am sticking up for the OP and no I haven't added an opinion to her predicament, so in essence my purpose here is to counter balance yours. If you stop giving a halfwit assessment then my job will be done.


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## Berkeley (27 October 2010)

KS1 said:



			Jeez what a heartless person you are, you should not have bought this horse in the first place, you say selling is not an option as she may be mistreated, well, your the last person I'd sell to.  

You are not experienced for an ex-racehorse and becuaes of that the horse gets it..

You disgust me..

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You're right. She's not right for me. I have just given the ok for the hunt to shoot her. Luckily the bullet was free so at least she hasn't cost me anything else.


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## nativetyponies (27 October 2010)

KS1..It is 21 yrs old..and past its sell-by date.

Anychance you could take it then?

would help the OP out no end.


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## Berkeley (27 October 2010)

DAA83 said:



			What a load of b*****ks - you are defending your pointless response on the basis that the OP didn't put her question forward in exactly the way you wanted! Would it have helped if she used a different font? I think if you read the post you will see another option with the word possibly.

I disagree with your assessment that the post has backfired because there have been a lot of useful responses, it just so happens that non of them have come from you. Yes I am sticking up for the OP and no I haven't added an opinion to her predicament, so in essence my purpose here is to counter balance yours. If you stop giving a halfwit assessment then my job will be done.
		
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Bang on! no pun intended for the sound of the gun.


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## Gluttonforpunishment (27 October 2010)

So OP to summarise - you took on a horse because you felt sorry for it, but you didn't have any experience in looking after / owning such an animal. You have acheived very little in terms of progress with the mare for the last 4 years and now you are looking for either a wonder cure for her problems or to palm her off for someone else to care for in her twighlight years.

By anyones gauge you have been foolish, having said that I think we all have at some point in our associations with animals.

The right and proper thing to do is to retire her and allow her to live the rest of her natural life with her needs attended to.  You took her on and this is your responsibilty.  The inference in a previous post is that you are a solicitor or similar so I'm am making the assumption that cash flow should not be a problem - even if you do begrudge spending money keeping a horse you cannot ride. Ultimately that situation is not her fault.

If you cannot / won't / don't wish to provide for her any longer I would suggest you find her a loving owner who is willing to do so.  She has no monetary value so you would have to offer her free to a good home.  The onus is on you to ensure she goes to a good home.

If neither of these solutions appeal then you must have her pts in my opinion.


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## Slightly Foxed (27 October 2010)

Berkeley said:



			I have just given the ok for the hunt to shoot her. Luckily the bullet was free so at least she hasn't cost me anything else.
		
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Have you really, or are you just winding up those who have annoyed you?


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## DAA83 (27 October 2010)

I've seen the film Seabiscuit - perhaps you should enter into Newmarket this weekend?


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## Alibear (27 October 2010)

I have a retired horse because I can afford to at the moment, however if money ran out I would very reluctantly have him PTS.

For an old horse that's not an easy keeper and not an easy ride the world in general doesn't have a good track record of providing them a good life.

There are a lot worse things that could happen than a good and caring end to life. The thread in latest news shows what can happen to even the best of horses.

All horses are 1 sale away from disaster in essence. I know that sounds like scaremongering but people seem to believe they can advertise their older horse free to good home and that's exactly what will happen. Where as reality is usually completely different.

I'm not saying it's impossible to rehome and older horse to a good home, but it takes time, hard work and effort and regular checks and isn't always possible.

Hence why the charities generally recommend the PTS option in these circumstances.


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## KS1 (27 October 2010)

enfys said:



			Ok then.
Out of curiosity, to those that say retire her, or pay the 350 pcm, could you, would you, give her a home then?
		
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There are stupid people who take on a horse that they are not experienced enough for, other people are not there to take on people's mistakes. I have two horses one is 22 and the other is 7.

They have both not been riddden for over a year due to my injuries, I may never be pain free and therefore may never ride again, but would I sell or put my old boy to sleep. Not bloody likely.

If it cost me £500 a month I would still keep them. Horses are cheap to buy but not cheap to maintain.. People should think about that first before jumping in blind.

So to answer your question.. no I wouldn't buy this horse, if I were to buy another to help it, it would be from a horse sanctuary.

Anyway the horse could always be moved to another yard that is cheaper.

Also 21 is not old these days and the real issue is not the age but the persons stupidity of taking on a horse that she has no experience for, did probably nothing to help it in 4 years then gets nupity when it starts being too difficult for her to handle coz she can't be bothered to school it. (Probably has no idea how to school correctly either) 

I am not sorry for my posting this, I am disgusted and angry that the suggestion to put a healthy horse to sleep is even considered by ANYONE...  If someone is not prepared to keep a horse knowing one day it won't be able to be ridden then they should stick to the fair ground horse rides.


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## KS1 (27 October 2010)

nativeponies said:



			oh good grief....

**bangs head on wall**

havent you read the thread started by thatsmygirl?

have a quick read..and reconsider your ill-thought out advice
		
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Err.. !! not ill thought at all, there are many places that would take on a companion if you have the time and patience to find, that would be better than having the horse PTS just coz you can't be bothered with it..

oh and keep banging your head, not gonna hurt me  lol


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## nativetyponies (27 October 2010)

KS1 said:



			Err.. !! not ill thought at all, there are many places that would take on a companion if you have the time and patiuence to find, that would be better than having the horse PTS just coz you can't be bothered with it..

oh and keep banging your head, not gonna hurt me  lol
		
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i work with and along side 2 well known horse charities and i can assure you, they DO NOT want anymore horses that owners just "no longer want" and well meaning advisers tell them to contact charities etc.

thatsmygirl gave her pony away..it has disapeared..probably sold on..so yes, ill thought out advice

as for "not gonna hurt me"..mmm, very mature comment

So, are you going to offer it a home then?


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## KS1 (27 October 2010)

nativeponies said:



			i work with and along side 2 well known horse charities and i can assure you, they DO NOT want anymore horses that owners just "no longer want" and well meaning advisers tell them to contact charities etc.  Who said anything about giving it to a charity, I certainly never

thatsmygirl gave her pony away..it has disapeared..probably sold on..so yes, ill thought out advice  
oh so every person that takes on a horse now is a thief.. how interesting
as for "not gonna hurt me"..mmm, very mature comment Wasn't it just lol

So, are you going to offer it a home then?  you've already asked that der...!![/QUOTE]
		
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## nativetyponies (27 October 2010)

How old are you KS1?


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## joeanne (27 October 2010)

O.P, given you cannot afford the cost of retiring your mare, PTS is the most sensible thing you could do. 
God forbid the next one though, if you balk at even the cost of a bullet.
Sad sad state of affairs....


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## Ted's mum (27 October 2010)

very sad poor mare. I'd have her PTS if you cannot even have the decentcy to keep her til the end of her days. IMO what I would do is find a cheap field or grass livery, rug her up well and turn her away..she deserves a good retirement.


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## Bowen4Horses (27 October 2010)

mollylolly said:



			p.s if you cant afford them even when they need you the most and they cant give you anything back then dont have them. I have had horses for well over 24 years now and i will only take them on if i can afford it and thank god i can.

im getting quite fed up with people saying im quite naive -  no i am not. I thought that by joining this forum i would be able to have proper converstaions with like minded people - obviously this is not the case. I am only naive because you dont agree with my comments and my feelings for the animals.

I think joining this place was the wrong thing to do as my afternoon has been spent shocked at the approaches and opinions some of you have.

so not im not naive just a kind hearted caring person who has and will look after the horses for as long as i can, because i love them for them and the love they give me not what i cna get out of them.

thank you and good night.
		
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mollylolly, when i first joined this forum, i was shocked at the ease at which people say 'put to sleep'... i remember sitting with my husband one evening, feeling upset because i thought my horse had a SI problem, and not dare write it on here, for fear of everyone telling me to put him to sleep. but, actually, not only will you sort of get used to it, you'll also start to see in what situations people seem to say it. 

because actually, only a minority throw it around willy-nilly... mostly people only say it when it is genuinely an option. 

when raff broke his leg, my whole world literally crumbled. i could have had him pts that night, to save months of crosstying... but i didn't, i chose to have him cross tied for weeks and weeks... in real life, people told me to put him to sleep... but, in defence of this forum, i had nothing but support from people. no one told me to pts... and that's because whilst it was an option, i was in the position where i would have done EVERYTHING in my power to keep him alive. whereas, i have to say, in this case, the OP isn't coming across like she would and so, people have to answer accordingly. if the OP had said 'i'd remortgage my house and sell the clothes off my back to keep her alive' (which i'm sure most people would about their horse) then i'm quite sure people would give different advice. 

i really hope there are other options for this horse, but if the OP can't keep the horse... who can? and a difficult, older horse is going to be hard to rehome. it runs the risk of ending up in the wrong hands. 

please don't give up on HHO, it can be a fab place x


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## MurphysMinder (27 October 2010)

I am lucky, I have my own land so have 3 retirees, however if circumstances changed they would be pts.  They have either health or behaviour problems and  I would be terrified they would end up in the wrong home.  If the OP feels unable to retire her horse there are far worse things than being pts.  A tb is not everyones first choice as a companion.


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## joeanne (27 October 2010)

Absolutely. 
And at the risk of upsetting you further (though thats certainly not my intention), I would rather see a horse in a tin of pedigree chum, than passed from pillar to post with its outlook getting bleaker with each changing of hands.
Once its dead, its suffering is over. Harsh, but true. 
I have friends that have taken horses from the sales, called the knackerman on the way home, and had the horse/pony shot the following morning after a good feed and a decent nights rest in a clean stable. They gained nothing out of it, but could not see the poor creature's in question suffer a minute more than they had to. Its called Doing The Right Thing....


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## Spudlet (27 October 2010)

^^^What Clippy said.

It's not something to be done lightly, but in the end, there are far worse fates for a horse than a swift, humane death.


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## x1xpixiex1x (27 October 2010)

Well it has just taken me about 20 minutes to read through the whole post..

The different views on this situation are overwhelming. I do agree that if sold on or if the mare got into the wrong hands she will be a danger to herself or another party when ridden so loaning her or trying to sell her isn't an option. I don't think many people would take a tb mare of that age on as a companion either sorry. Plus it would be a big risk. 

If it was me i would retire her but like said before do some ground work with her from time to time. But if the money is a big deal and your in no way able to keep her and maintain her health etc then maybe putting her to sleep isn't such a bad idea. 

Before anyone criticizes me for my post for being unloving or cruel, don't you think it would be cruel for her to go to another home where she will not be looked after or neglected, where whoever has brought her with the idea she can be ridden also gives up on her? Or worse she ends up with the meat man? I think putting her to sleep would be the more sensible solution UNLESS you can retire her.


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## Flame_ (27 October 2010)

OMG when did this forum get so sentimental? Look. healthy young cows, pigs sheep are humanely destroyed every day, are horses really that different? It isn't such a terrible thing that the OP doesn't want a pet that costs £350 a month! 

OP, you might be able to find grass/retirement livery for less money if you feel you owe this mare a retirement. If you don't want to retire her, you are not enjoying her and she doesn't have enough going for her to be saleable, just have her pts. Lots more finished racers head for the meat man long before they get to 21, this mare hasn't done too badly.

Whatever you do OP, don't give her away as a companion, there is so much mis-guided advice on this thread it's frightening. Also, if and when you do come to look for a replacement, give a lot of thought to the type of horse that will suit you and avoid buying horses aged late teens upwards if you want to avoid the same predicament.


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## tullystud (27 October 2010)

Definately PTS.  There are lots of ponies looking for loan homes that are easy and cheap to keep.  I can't imagine anyone choosing a TB as a companion.  

There are cheaper options as retirement homes but it is still a lot to pay for a pet. Retirement is a luxuary that not everyone can afford and no one should make you feel guilty if you choose to PTS.


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## Cedars (27 October 2010)

Mollylolly, you havent answered my post.


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## Achinghips (27 October 2010)

Flame_ said:



			OMG when did this forum get so sentimental? Look. healthy young cows, pigs sheep are humanely destroyed every day, are horses really that different? It isn't such a terrible thing that the OP doesn't want a pet that costs £350 a month! 

OP, you might be able to find grass/retirement livery for less money if you feel you owe this mare a retirement. If you don't want to retire her, you are not enjoying her and she doesn't have enough going for her to be saleable, just have her pts. Lots more finished racers head for the meat man long before they get to 21, this mare hasn't done too badly.

Whatever you do OP, don't give her away as a companion, there is so much mis-guided advice on this thread it's frightening. Also, if and when you do come to look for a replacement, give a lot of thought to the type of horse that will suit you and avoid buying horses aged late teens upwards if you want to avoid the same predicament.
		
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I think this is a very good post. You don't have a hope in hell of selling this girl. 21 is a good age.  If you can't afford retirement livery, try some of the racehorse care organisations who may have such a thing first though.


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## tania01 (27 October 2010)

I retired my old one 4 years ago because i felt he was getting to dangerous,for me and him  

He is still with me,if i couldn't afford to keep him,i would have him PTS.

I would not put his problems on anyone else.He has issues and for how long i have had him,i think i owe it to him not to be passed from one place to the next.

You have been given some very good advise on here by some very very experienced people.


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## Vixxy (27 October 2010)

I am no fluffy, I have had 2 PTS. One was a TB mare that I had to PTS as an emergency on vets advice. The other a stunning Welsh Sec D I had retired with arthritis but he took a turn for the worse and when treatment and painkillers were of no use I made the brave choice to PTS as he was lame even out in the paddock.

I am just soooo frustrated at people who think they do good and then it all goes wrong. I have dealt over the years also, I can let them go if I bought them to deal. I just get mad over people making irresponsible choices in the first place then when it all goes wrong want others to say 'yeaaa PTS is the best option' to make them feel better about doing it. I wonder where this mare would have been if taken on by a experienced rider 4 years ago? 

Don't loan the horse out, in my experience the companion route for an ageing TB is not the safest of routes. It leaves just one option really and that is why I get so sad and frustrated.


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## M_G (27 October 2010)

I am going to be totally honest & some people may not like it but if I were in your position I would either find a cheaper livery so you can have 1 retired and another to ride or PTS.. I have seen 1 too many equine charitys take money and starve the horses


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## tania01 (27 October 2010)

M_G said:



			I am going to be totally honest & some people may not like it but if I were in your position I would either find a cheaper livery so you can have 1 retired and another to ride or PTS.. I have seen 1 too many equine charitys take money and starve the horses
		
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Ditto this.


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## Spudlet (27 October 2010)

M_G said:



			I am going to be totally honest & some people may not like it but if I were in your position I would either find a cheaper livery so you can have 1 retired and another to ride or PTS.. I have seen 1 too many equine charitys take money and starve the horses
		
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Please don't tar all charities with the same brush there.


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## joeanne (27 October 2010)

I think M_G is refering to the "backyard" charities Spudlet.....not the likes of say, BHS, EMW, WHW, Horseworld etc. Its these charities that pick up the pieces when the backyard variety goes horribly wrong.


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## jackblack (27 October 2010)

tullystud said:



			Definately PTS.  There are lots of ponies looking for loan homes that are easy and cheap to keep.  I can't imagine anyone choosing a TB as a companion.  

There are cheaper options as retirement homes but it is still a lot to pay for a pet. Retirement is a luxuary that not everyone can afford and no one should make you feel guilty if you choose to PTS.
		
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I agree, if you can't afford to retire her and pay for livery too, rather than pass on a potentially dangerous horse, pts.


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## xspiralx (27 October 2010)

Probably the best thing for the horse at this point is to be PTS rather than passed on or neglected.

It just goes to show though that there is little kindness in "rescuing" an animal if you're not experienced or competent enough to deal with it. A more experienced person could no doubt have reschooled the horse years ago and it would still be living a useful life instead of consigned to the scrap heap.

But what's done is done, and probably for the best - and I am sure the OP has learned a valuable lesson.


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## thatsmygirl (27 October 2010)

Berkeley said:



			You're right. She's not right for me. I have just given the ok for the hunt to shoot her. Luckily the bullet was free so at least she hasn't cost me anything else.
		
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Your mare looks so well in the pics you have posted since moving yards. What's gone wrong? Pm me if you want somebody to talk to


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## MrsMozart (27 October 2010)

nativeponies said:



			You certainly sound more vexed than a vexed thing in vexville.

no wonder you're vexatious
		
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Is that Vexville just north of Middlesomething? Funny old place, I lost my marbles last time I was there. Must go and retrieve them some day.


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## M_G (27 October 2010)

Spudlet said:



			Please don't tar all charities with the same brush there.
		
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I dont mean all charities I mean the few backyard ones that are only too happy to take in any and every horse whether its in the horses best interest or not


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## Puppy (27 October 2010)

flamehead said:



			Mollylolly. Take my mare.

If she doesnt come back to ridden work after ks surgery, we will probably have her put to sleep.

She is a horrid mare to be around, bites and kicks. She is a fairly good doer but needs hay in the winter. She costs us a fortune in rugs. She ruins our fields because if we take her friends out she churns them up like something else. She costs us a small fortune, all in all. So, our options would be:

Sell her. We couldnt really afford to keep her, particularly not with another horse. She's a pretty face and a nice age and height. Could we guarantee that someone would NEVER ride her? Well, no. So, she could go to a home thats downright horrid, they make her work and god forbid she rears up and over again and, this time, kills someone. So, in my view, selling her isnt an option.

Loan her. Same problem as above with riding. And, even if someone wouldnt try to ride her - shes not a companion. She has such bad separation anxiety that you would need a companion for her! So nobody would take her as a companion. She's not a project because she wouldnt be able to be ridden again.

We COULD leave her in our field, *but we cannot afford her*. So, what would we cut back on? Her feed? So she starves. Her shoeing? So she can't walk. 

Cant you see that actually, being PTS is the BEST option for her?

This is hypothetical because hopefully she'll come back fine, but we'll see. For what its worth, YOUR comments upset ME because they're extremely naive.
		
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You have a horse that you can't afford?!   Or would you just not be able to afford her is she couldn't be ridden anymore?!


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## Spudlet (27 October 2010)

M_G said:



			I dont mean all charities I mean the few backyard ones that are only too happy to take in any and every horse whether its in the horses best interest or not
		
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Coolio then


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## Cedars (27 October 2010)

Sorry, Puppy, should have explained. We can only afford one horse each - so if she were to be out of work and we got another horse then we couldnt afford her. Does that make sense?

Its hypothetical as she will hopefully be fine (and technically we dont pay for her but thats a whole other story...). Point I'm trying to make is that there are many, many situations where PTS isnt the worst option.


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## MrsMozart (27 October 2010)

Berkeley said:



			You're right. She's not right for me. I have just given the ok for the hunt to shoot her. Luckily the bullet was free so at least she hasn't cost me anything else.
		
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You've just gone from:

Being interested in playing games with her;

You said there was someone at your yard that might be interested in loaning her;

You've been advised of grass livery, which is way cheaper than the livery you are currently paying,

yet you have ordered the Hunt and you are pleased the bullet was free.

No point to this post, other than to say that, for the first time since I've been on here, someone's words made me feel sick.

It's not that you are having the mare put to sleep, no doubt it is the best thing for her given the alternative, it's the attitude. I hope that you do not bother to get another horse.

Really, really surprised at how you've turned out. I used to look for your posts. I was wrong.


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## Puppy (27 October 2010)

Oh, I see. You'd put her to sleep so that you could spend your money on something rideable.


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## HappyHorses:) (27 October 2010)

MrsMozart said:



			You've just gone from:

Being interested in playing games with her;

You said there was someone at your yard that might be interested in loaning her;

You've been advised of grass livery, which is way cheaper than the livery you are currently paying,

yet you have ordered the Hunt and you are pleased the bullet was free.

No point to this post, other than to say that, for the first time since I've been on here, someone's words made me feel sick.

It's not that you are having the mare put to sleep, no doubt it is the best thing for her given the alternative, it's the attitude. I hope that you do not bother to get another horse.

^^ Agreed^^

So OP you have the money to pay for a horse that CAN be ridden yet not one that can't?? 

Owners like you disgust me. There is no reason for you not to provide that poor mare with a retirment. I decided that being able to give my old man a nice retirment ment more to me than the riding.
Your selfish. Pure and simple.
		
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## Taboo1968 (27 October 2010)

Any chance I could have the number for the hunt - after all, we could all do with free bullets!!!

M_G - Far too mant backyard rescues going on still!!!


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## joeanne (27 October 2010)

HappyHorses:) said:



			Owners like you disgust me. There is no reason for you not to provide that poor mare with a retirment. I decided that being able to give my old man a nice retirment ment more to me than the riding.
Your selfish. Pure and simple.
		
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Hang on a minute!!!! Not everyone is in the position to keep a horse that is unridable!
I am not condoning OP's actions (or rather her attitude over it), but far better PTS than be passed from pillar to post, or worse still, forgotten about stuck in a field somewhere.
I am lucky I am able to keep my OAP's ridable or not. Not everyone is and its not for you to judge if someone would like a horse they can actually ride. Horses are an expensive hobby, so not unreasonable to expect to be able to enjoy the experience!
Bang out of order.....


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## Cedars (27 October 2010)

Yes, Puppy, I would. Gonna jump on me for that?

I'm not a charity. Having horses is a hobby and I would never pass her on to someone else to be harmed. But I'm also not a charity. It would also help my decision that the mare hates life, people, and everything else!


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## HappyHorses:) (27 October 2010)

joeanne said:



			Bang out of order.....
		
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No not bang out of order!

Your sticking up for someone who has the money yet can't be bothered?! 

Nice.


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## babymare (27 October 2010)

when i bought my mare she was a mess unrideable and dangerous but hey 4 yrs makes a difference - now sadly she is losing her sight( shes 12) that horse owes me nothing and given so so so much- i have been given 2-3 yrs with her she will live her days out even when i can not ride her at all - limited to school on bright days now and when that day comes i will be with her strong . when we take on a horse we owe them to care for them wether we can ride them or not - may upset some people but they are not a throw away commodity - we hold responsibility -be it teaching a young one manners to stay with them for life or caring for that horse that as so tried to please you


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## HappyHorses:) (27 October 2010)

babymare said:



			when i bought my mare she was a mess unrideable and dangerous but hey 4 yrs makes a difference - now sadly she is losing her sight( shes 12) that horse owes me nothing and given so so so much- i have been given 2-3 yrs with her she will live her days out even when i can not ride her at all - limited to school on bright days now and when that day comes i will be with her strong . when we take on a horse we owe them to care for them wether we can ride them or not - may upset some people but they are not a throw away commodity - we hold responsibility -be it teaching a young one manners to stay with them for life or caring for that horse that as so tried to please you
		
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Spot on!


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## joeanne (27 October 2010)

HappyHorses:) said:



			No not bang out of order!

Your sticking up for someone who has the money yet can't be bothered?! 

Nice.
		
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Errr no. Not sticking up for, merely making the point that not everyone is in the position to keep an unridable horse.....a high maintanence one at that.
Are you sure the OP can afford to keep her mare at grass livery AND a ridable horse? No.....didn't think so.
FWIW my OAP's stay with me retired, until the end. Doesnt mean I cannot see that not everyone has that option.


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## el_Snowflakes (27 October 2010)

Tempi said:



			Wow - it seems that as soon as a horse is no longer rideable people will just PTS these days.

I would find a nice retirement home for her, if you go on google there will be ones around your area i am sure.  

My horse will be with me for life until the time comes when she is in physical pain and/or her quality of life has deteriorated.  Im not just going to have her shot when the time comes that she is no longer rideable!
		
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Totally agree Tempi! the thought of it just turns my stomach. Shows the difference between those who love horse riding and those who truly love their horses.


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## Cedars (27 October 2010)

So what, if you can only afford one horse, you get it at 4, it cant be ridden at 6, for example, you think people should keep it and pay out for it until its 20? 30? and never have another horse?! God, what a wonderful world you must live in.

Our horses that have been with us and worked for us and we love them will stay with us to the end. However, if I reached a point where I could not fund them, yes, I would have them PTS rather than sold on. Thankfully we will hopefully never be in that situation - the mare is technically my MILs horse so she pays - but some people are millionaires!

God if people came on here posting to say they were selling on their lame aged mare you'd all rip their heads off!


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## HappyHorses:) (27 October 2010)

Berkeley said:



			Any pay £350 p/m for something I can't use? Pah!
		
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^ This comment, Joanne, was the one that disgusted me. ^

I am not on here to have an argument with you. My point was she was happy to pay for a horse she can ride yet not one she can't. Poor horse.

Jeeze its allaboutme.com nowdays


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## rhino (27 October 2010)

Puppy said:



			Oh, I see. You'd put her to sleep so that you could spend your money on something rideable.
		
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I was wanting to say that but chickened out!

I'm so glad I'm a sentimental old (young really) fool who will keep my horse as long as he is happy and healthy, and not give a stuff if I could never ride him again. He owes me nothing and I owe him so much, certainly a happy retirement if and when required.

He's 19 but in NO WAY ready to retire. It made me sad when a poster in this thread said that was 'over the hill'. We were 3rd in our last HT. We would have won but had time penalties for going too fast. Oops! I was also a novice when I bought him, but I chose to learn and improve.

21 is not really that old. The horse could live happily for the next 10 years or more.


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## el_Snowflakes (27 October 2010)

Best thing you can do is give him up as a companion for FREE to a good home that you can have vetted.[/QUOTE]

oh dear, i think this is maybe how this problem started in the 1st place!


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## Flame_ (27 October 2010)

flamehead said:



			So what, if you can only afford one horse, you get it at 4, it cant be ridden at 6, for example, you think people should keep it and pay out for it until its 20? 30? and never have another horse?! God, what a wonderful world you must live in.
		
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Flamehead, for once I'm 100% with you. I retired my old pony with navic at 15 and got a replacement. When the replacement was unsound at seven should I have retired and kept her? Then my gelding who I owned for six years - when he permanently broke down at twelve should I have retired him not pts? Either I'd own three crocked horses now with no chance of riding in sight (not counting my sister's old pony as well!) or if I'd not had the money for any replacements while I cared for the retirees I'd still be waiting to get a riding horse as the old pony is still alive and well, now aged 30!

The current trend for viewing horses as pets and not working animals is not realistic. If anyone wants a horse as a pet, fine - lucky horse, but FFS don't look down at other people who want their horse to do a job, and if it can't do that job, or another job which it can be sold for, doing the responsible thing and PTS.


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## joeanne (27 October 2010)

HappyHorses I agree the way the OP posted could have been worded a whole less flippantly. Cant say she endeared herself to me either with that comment. BUT....she is the one ultimately paying more to keep her horse than my friend does for the payments AND insurance for her nice new car (which sounds a whole lot safer!)
Yes its a sad state of affairs, but the mare is too difficult for the OP to deal with, and has issues that should not be passed on. If the horse was "normal" she could sell it and replace it with something more suited to her needs. But its not. And its high maintenence. Not a native you can throw out not worry about. An aged TB mare. 
Kindest thing for the mare (given OP's lack of willingness to keep it) is to have her PTS. At least that way she is not going to be passed onto ever more dire situations than the last.
The current climate is poor. People struggle to keep the horses they have owned for years. Useful animals that are being PTS. If they struggle, what chance would this girl realisticly have?


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## Puppy (27 October 2010)

flamehead said:



			So what, if you can only afford one horse, you get it at 4, it cant be ridden at 6,
		
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Well actually, I got my younger mare just before she turned 6, and found out she couldn't be ridden again shortly after turning 8. But yes, I love her, and I shall keep her till the end of her days. I miss riding, but I would miss having her there in my field each day even more. 




			you think people should keep it and pay out for it until its 20? 30? and never have another horse?! God, what a wonderful world you must live in. 

Our horses that have been with us and worked for us and we love them will stay with us to the end. However, if I reached a point where I could not fund them, yes, I would have them PTS rather than sold on. Thankfully we will hopefully never be in that situation - the mare is technically my MILs horse so she pays - but some people are millionaires!

God if people came on here posting to say they were selling on their lame aged mare you'd all rip their heads off!
		
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No. I think it understandable putting to sleep a horse which you openly admit you don't want to pay to keep in retirement. I also think it perfectly understandable and sensible when people put to sleep old/retired horses that are not suitable to be passed on, when the owners find themselves in situations where they can no longer afford to keep them - if only more did that! 

I just object to people who say that they love their horse, blah, blah, blah, but then suddenly claim they only can't afford it ONCE it is broken. 

Really, I have friends who view their horses slightly different to my soppy ways, and are honest in saying that their horses have a job to do, were they not able to do it, then they would have to go - fair enough, I can understand and respect that. I just get really cheesed off with people who won't own up and say outright "I'd have it PTS so that I can afford something to ride" - as so often that is the fact on the matter (and to an extent with the OP here).


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## Cedars (27 October 2010)

Im not saying its totally black and white - you should ALWAYS keep your horse til death OR you should NEVER. I'm just saying that there are very, very few people who can afford to just keep collecting horses that cant do their job. Now I can tell you I would definitely do my best to keep my baby forever, and my OH will keep his horse til death even if we have to live on a street corner to afford him - but Frankie pulled my OH through his parents divorce amongst other things and he means the world to him.

Slagging people off for having a horse PTS rather than sending them off to an uncertain future is wrong.

And Puppy, how wonderful to be you.


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## Cedars (27 October 2010)

Puppy said:



			I just get really cheesed off with people who won't own up and say outright "I'd have it PTS so that I can afford something to ride" - as so often that is the fact on the matter (and to an extent with the OP here).
		
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I said that to you and you told me that was wrong - and then someone else told me that people like me obviously didnt love their horses!!!!


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## el_Snowflakes (27 October 2010)

Flame_ said:



			Flamehead, for once I'm 100% with you. I retired my old pony with navic at 15 and got a replacement. When the replacement was unsound at seven should I have retired and kept her? Then my gelding who I owned for six years - when he permanently broke down at twelve should I have retired him not pts? Either I'd own three crocked horses now with no chance of riding in sight (not counting my sister's old pony as well!) or if I'd not had the money for any replacements while I cared for the retirees I'd still be waiting to get a riding horse as the old pony is still alive and well, now aged 30!

The current trend for viewing horses as pets and not working animals is not realistic. If anyone wants a horse as a pet, fine - lucky horse, but FFS don't look down at other people who want their horse to do a job, and if it can't do that job, or another job which it can be sold for, doing the responsible thing and PTS.
		
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Sure, money has to come into the equation. We arent all made of money afterall. But this OP suggested that she grudged paying for a horse she cannot ride. Just because she cannot ride it doesnt mean someone else cant, for all we know there may be someone willing to get on board and hey, they might get on great! afterall she does say having the horse PTS would be the last option......doesnt seem like it tho?....


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## Dizzyblonde99 (27 October 2010)

I might be wrong and maybe noone has sugested this for a reason?? But why don't you advertise for help riding her? There are lots of people out there willing to help ride horses, she would be having more exersise that may well calm her down as you seem to have limited time to exersise her. And if you've lost your confidence with her a little somebody that is full of confidence may be able to help  Teenagers are well know for having no fear!!!

As a teenager myself that untill recently helped out with a 16yr ex racer I love this idea! The horse I had I feel really improved, and was working in a soft outline and jumping well, after a couple of years


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## rhino (27 October 2010)

To me, this is coming down to a simple question..

Is an animal's life worth more or less than being able to ride?

Opinions?


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## Montyforever (27 October 2010)

Absolutly disgusted with OP 

I have 2 horses i cant ride, one i bought to re-back but its going to be alot longer before i can than i thought. Yes i could have sold her when i realized it was going to take longer, but i didnt, even if i can never ride her she will be with me until shes ready to be pts. Wether thats in 10 years or 20 i dont care!
She also cost me even more as i had to get her a companion - that i cant ride either! 

Its like saying you would happily have your mum put down when shes healthy, happy and still young regardless of what shes given to you over the years


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## Cedars (27 October 2010)

I believe that the horse has kissing spines and therefore cannot be ridden. But heyho, you better sell her on OP because putting her to sleep is horrific. Sell her on and hope someone else doesnt think "oh how bad can she be? I'll just get on." Btw, thanks button pushers!


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## joeanne (27 October 2010)

elsazzo the whole point of recommending a pts is the mare is getting on in years.
It is unfair to expect someone else to take the headache of a potentially unridable animal at that age. A youngster you could give a bit of time to come right. This one does not have that kind of time. The OP is unwilling to keep her, therefore if she is not PTS, she will end up in a god awful shyte sale of the likes we have up the road.
I wouldnt wish that on any animal.


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## Berkeley (27 October 2010)

Its insightful to see so many members exposing their souls in this extremely sensitive post. I had no idea so many of you would respond, good and bad (and ugly in some cases).

I concede to the fact that the 'pah!' comment and calling the hunt was reckless. There was no conviction in my words. Honestly. Looking back, I was frustrated with the unfortunate approach some of you took to slash me - its so easy to wind those people up. I am not used to dealing with tunnel vision. Maybe that's why some of you will always be climbing a ladder with no rungs. 

The post has been construed as me being insensitive, uncaring, fickle and insufferable towards my horse. Perhaps my construction of sentances was too assertive and the tone was too slap dash. I can assure you (although with some of you it may just bounce off or give you something else to bite at) that I am 100% committed to her best interests whether it be to pass her on as a companion, loan her to someone she can trust more, keep her or to take the dark plunge to PTS. Either way it will be a choice carefully constructed and executed with a conscience mind. It makes no difference whether I am wealthy or not, whether I am buying a 4x4 or a Gucci bag - I will make a decision based on my circumstances without third party pressure. Not that I feel pressued, even after swimming against the tide of some of your comments.

For the purpose of clarification only, and mainly for those of you who believed I would pts tonight on a whim (although I must admit I am disappointed in how easy it was for you to bite) I have not done so, nor will I - it was a simple pose. Nothing more. My initial point was to open suggestions to the floor - it is a shame people have become embedded in the idea of PTS. I did not assert this as the only option. Perhaps its an education for some of you to really look at the words which have been written.

I have just returned from being with her tonight, as I always do, ensuring she is tucked up in her freshly washed Rambo fleece, 2 nets of hay and lots of kisses.  

She is too much for me, always has been - but I am a sucker for a sad case and sometimes I need to consider my options. Its my prerogative. If I decide to PTS, I will. 

Don't judge me folks. Chill out. And don't have a go at eachother.


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## HappyHorses:) (27 October 2010)

roo2012 said:



			To me, this is coming down to a simple question..

Is an animal's life worth more or less than being able to ride?

Opinions?
		
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Depends on the owner . . . 

I gave up riding to be able to retire my horse. But that is what I wanted to do and what I belived my horse deserved.


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## Puppy (27 October 2010)

flamehead said:



			And Puppy, how wonderful to be you.
		
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Cor, you wouldn't say that if you knew what sort of a day I had lined up tomorrow!  



flamehead said:



			I said that to you and you told me that was wrong - and then someone else told me that people like me obviously didnt love their horses!!!!
		
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Erm, no. I clarified your statement/post.


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## Jesstickle (27 October 2010)

flamehead said:



			I believe that the horse has kissing spines and therefore cannot be ridden. But heyho, you better sell her on OP because putting her to sleep is horrific. Sell her on and hope someone else doesnt think "oh how bad can she be? I'll just get on." Btw, thanks button pushers!
		
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What on earth did you say that deserved reporting? Everything you said seemed perfectly reasonable to me.


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## nikicb (27 October 2010)

amymay said:



			Does no one retire their horses any more

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Yes, I have a 34 yr old who is all but retired (gently ridden twice a week by friends just to keep her ticking over) and is in full livery at £650 per month.  She owes me nothing and will be alive until she really doesn't want to be any more.

ETA I'm reschooling a 17 yr old at the moment, I regard him as young!  Well he's the youngest of my three and still totally up for it and willing to learn.


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## Cedars (27 October 2010)

i swore.


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## babymare (27 October 2010)

just a little something to make you think a girl on yard bought a 4 yr old cob type 22years ago weeks after buying him told you will never ride him due to bone problems - that horse as been loved and beautifully cared for for 22 yrs- she adores him he wants for nothing - vet care feed love and attention. tonight she said he is going donwn hill and i have to make decsision i just hugged her what could i say she as cared for and loved brecken for 22 years and never sat on his back her words" hes simply the best"  so when they become unrideable do we just throw away - hayley as shown no you can still get so much from them - shes a star god love her x


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## rhino (27 October 2010)

flamehead said:



			I believe that the horse has kissing spines and therefore cannot be ridden. But heyho, you better sell her on OP because putting her to sleep is horrific. Sell her on and hope someone else doesnt think "oh how bad can she be? I'll just get on." Btw, thanks button pushers!
		
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Sorry, must have missed that part (kissing spines) in the original post, it was stated as being an ex racehorse which had never been retrained. Surely anyone would have had the horse checked over by a vet if it was presenting with this behaviour? OP - has the vet recommended anything? (I also know a lot of horses that would be awful to ride having had 4 weeks off)

It's really hard when you don't know all the details, but I think people would be far more sympathetic/realistic if the horse had a diagnosed problem preventing it working. We don't know if this is the case or not.

I wish people would realise that 21 is not old for a lot of horses now; horses are living for far longer. My friend had his 36year old put down last year; up until a month or so before this she was still being ridden. I ride a friend's 20 year old ex racehorse who, while not being the easiest ride is very fit and healthy.


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## DAA83 (27 October 2010)

Dizzyblonde99 said:



			I might be wrong and maybe noone has sugested this for a reason?? But why don't you advertise for help riding her? There are lots of people out there willing to help ride horses, she would be having more exersise that may well calm her down as you seem to have limited time to exersise her. And if you've lost your confidence with her a little somebody that is full of confidence may be able to help  Teenagers are well know for having no fear!!!

As a teenager myself that untill recently helped out with a 16yr ex racer I love this idea! The horse I had I feel really improved, and was working in a soft outline and jumping well, after a couple of years 

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I think this is a great option and one the OP should consider


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## nativetyponies (27 October 2010)

flamehead said:



			Btw, thanks button pushers!
		
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you'll get used to those on here.

its full of spineless types these days


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## the_sophies (27 October 2010)

Originally Posted by Berkeley  
I have just given the ok for the hunt to shoot her. Luckily the bullet was free so at least she hasn't cost me anything else.

Your attitude truly disgusts me.  The only thing wrong with this mare is that you are not good enough to have her.  Please DO put her out of her misery, if only to get the poor mare away from you.


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## PercyMum (27 October 2010)

I think there have been some very good points made here, and some people have missed the point somewhat. Personally I would keep my horses till the end (and always have) but I am very fortunate and wouldn't judge anyone who responsibly PTS their horse if they couldnt care for it properly/afford it.  I do think the OP could perhaps have phrased herself a little better; equally, perhaps the catty comments made aren't really required either!

Where have you gone Berkeley?  What are you going to do?  I think the games idea/reschooling could still be an option?  Or...

... put an ad up asking for someone to ride your horse for free and reschool her.  Might sound daft but as a teenager I was pretty competent and used to go around schooling naughty horses. I got a horsey fix for free and the owners got their horses schooled.  Its a really nice thing to do.  I let a local girl ride one of my horses thats a bit mad. She is very good but can't afford her own.  Just a thought...


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## the_sophies (27 October 2010)

Berkeley said:



			She is too much for me, always has been - but I am a sucker for a sad case and sometimes I need to consider my options. Its my prerogative. If I decide to PTS, I will.
		
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I'm glad that you realise that.  Please, please, do not get an ex-racehorse as your next mount.


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## el_Snowflakes (27 October 2010)

joeanne said:



			elsazzo the whole point of recommending a pts is the mare is getting on in years.
It is unfair to expect someone else to take the headache of a potentially unridable animal at that age. A youngster you could give a bit of time to come right. This one does not have that kind of time. The OP is unwilling to keep her, therefore if she is not PTS, she will end up in a god awful shyte sale of the likes we have up the road.
I wouldnt wish that on any animal.
		
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Thanks for the reply Joanne,

I am in no way inscinuating that the OP should sell this horse on, the way the horse is would mean a cheap sale of free to 'good' home which inevitably would mean the horse ending up god knows where with god knows who and yes, having the mare PTS would be the kinder & more responsible option. The owner is 'unwilling' to keep her sfter 4 years? why so long? it doesnt take that long to find out you arent a match! There may be people locally who love to ride but cant afford/dont have time for there own horse but would love to help out. There is a woman at my yard who has a horse similar to this, no one would go near him and the owner just left him in the field without any care at all as she had bought a big handful of a horse and had no experience/want to care for him - terrible, she advertised for a rider to help out and he has come on leaps and bounds! all he needed was someone who wasnt scared of him. He is schooling really well and going out for hacks which is great! the girl who comes to help out absolutely adores him now and its so great to see him getting the attention he deserves......oh, and he is 19 so no spring chicken either!


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## DAA83 (27 October 2010)

the_sophies said:



			Originally Posted by Berkeley  
I have just given the ok for the hunt to shoot her. Luckily the bullet was free so at least she hasn't cost me anything else.

Your attitude truly disgusts me.  The only thing wrong with this mare is that you are not good enough to have her.  Please DO put her out of her misery, if only to get the poor mare away from you.
		
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Dull


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## JVB (27 October 2010)

What does she actually do that is crazy? How does she behave? Sorry if this has been answered but not read all the posts so may have missed something?

I have a horse slightly similar, used to point to point and when taken round fields can be a little crazy - solution - give him a good gallop, have a great time and keep him happy doing the job he knows best.

What is the mare like if taken for a good run? The OP mentioned hadn't ridden for 4 weeks, why so long?


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## the_sophies (27 October 2010)

flamehead said:



			So what, if you can only afford one horse, you get it at 4, it cant be ridden at 6, for example, you think people should keep it and pay out for it until its 20? 30? and never have another horse?! God, what a wonderful world you must live in.
!
		
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^ True


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## joeanne (27 October 2010)

roo2012 said:



			I wish people would realise that 21 is not old for a lot of horses now; horses are living for far longer. My friend had his 36year old put down last year; up until a month or so before this she was still being ridden. I ride a friend's 20 year old ex racehorse who, while not being the easiest ride is very fit and healthy.
		
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But 21 IS old for an ex racing TB..... They have a hard life from the word go, most are out racing by the age of two, only stopping when they break down or slow down...
Not half as many retire to stud as go for meat.


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## Ted's mum (27 October 2010)

gosh this post has grown since last looked!! full of the same old nasty button pushers I see!!!


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## Puppy (27 October 2010)

Ted's mum said:



			full of the same old nasty button pushers I see!!!
		
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How on earth can you tell who has pushed the button?


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## Berkeley (27 October 2010)

Ted's mum said:



			gosh this post has grown since last looked!! full of the same old nasty button pushers I see!!!
		
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What is the record post in terms of length? I see the Paranormal Activity one still seems to crop up 1st.


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## Cedars (27 October 2010)

Sorry I actually think the ks was another poster earlier....god Im getting confused. Ignore me unless you hear about ks from berkley!


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## pipsqueek (27 October 2010)

OP - idea why you originally posted on here - did you expect people to agree with you?? and your subsequent posts fill me with disgust.  Poor mare.  Perhaps you should consider your own capabilities before getting another horse


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## CalllyH (27 October 2010)

why would you have a horse for 4 years and not do anything with it? mmmmm


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## PapaFrita (27 October 2010)

All things considered I think the best thing would be to have her PTS.


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## the_sophies (27 October 2010)

JVB said:



			I have a horse slightly similar, used to point to point and when taken round fields can be a little crazy - solution - give him a good gallop, have a great time and keep him happy doing the job he knows best.
		
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Me too, same solution, and we have a great time doing it!


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## el_Snowflakes (27 October 2010)

Berkeley said:



			What is the record post in terms of length? I see the Paranormal Activity one still seems to crop up 1st.
		
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Troll.com


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## PercyMum (27 October 2010)

I've seen the other post by Berkeley thats going on.  Her mare looks fab and very much loved and ridden!  Not sure of the point of this thread now?  Whats going on??!! Am new to HHO and am confused!!!


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## Kao (27 October 2010)

I'm sorry but if there's one thing I've learned while dealing with veterans (and I've delt with a lot) it's that age has nothing to do with a horses capability.
Yes, problems can come with age, but an injury sustained by 20 year old can easily effect a 3 year old in the same circumstances eg; developing arthritis.
If she's healthy and perfectly able to be re-schooled, and you think she's worth the time/finances, then please do it.

This mare really is one of thousands at the moment. If she were 5 there'd be people wanting her as a project. But people are more than a little bit skeptical when it comes to veterans who have little to no education.
You could sell her as a companion, but she could then be seen as "fit to ride"..someone jumps on her and thinks a good gallop all the time is fun and who knows what could happen to her.
A mare was sold from our yard because she was an absolute nutjob to jump. Fine one minute, then just blind bolted the next. Scary and thoroughly dangerous. The YO sold said mare on the basis she'd never be jumped and have a forever home as a Dressage/Happy Hacker which she was fine to do and above all happy to do.
Now, after 3 years the woman who owns her and made said agreement has her in a Myler combination with a young girl show jumping her, the same Myler combination that made her go mad with our previous rider. She's now back up for sale AS A SHOW JUMPER.
The horse hasn't changed one bit, still petrified of jumping but is a willing little girl till her brains blow and from then who knows, maybe they'll understand why the YO said no jumping.

But that's just one of many stories I know about buyers promising things they have no intention of keeping.

Regarding her age, as my RI says:
"An old horse can do everything it did in it's day, just better."
Meaning a horse can only learn, it's never too late and if you have faith in your mare she could come good from a bit of re-schooling 
Good luck with whatever you decide.


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## the_sophies (27 October 2010)

PercyMum said:



			I've seen the other post by Berkeley thats going on.  Her mare looks fab and very much loved and *ridden*!  Not sure of the point of this thread now?  Whats going on??!! Am new to HHO and am confused!!!

Click to expand...

Really?  I was under the impression that riding her was a problem.


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## BuBbleMooJim (27 October 2010)

M_G said:



			I dont mean all charities I mean the few backyard ones that are only too happy to take in any and every horse whether its in the horses best interest or not
		
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*Snorts with laughter* I can think of a couple of those......

Just make sure your horse doesn't end up in a place like that, starving, full of worms, and rehomed as a safe hack, or better still a competition horse. Then when you ask for it back get charged "livery" for the poor creature's care


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## MrsMozart (27 October 2010)

Berkeley said:



			Its insightful to see so many members exposing their souls in this extremely sensitive post. I had no idea so many of you would respond, good and bad (and ugly in some cases).

I concede to the fact that the 'pah!' comment and calling the hunt was reckless. There was no conviction in my words. Honestly. Looking back, I was frustrated with the unfortunate approach some of you took to slash me - its so easy to wind those people up. I am not used to dealing with tunnel vision. Maybe that's why some of you will always be climbing a ladder with no rungs. 

The post has been construed as me being insensitive, uncaring, fickle and insufferable towards my horse. Perhaps my construction of sentances was too assertive and the tone was too slap dash. I can assure you (although with some of you it may just bounce off or give you something else to bite at) that I am 100% committed to her best interests whether it be to pass her on as a companion, loan her to someone she can trust more, keep her or to take the dark plunge to PTS. Either way it will be a choice carefully constructed and executed with a conscience mind. It makes no difference whether I am wealthy or not, whether I am buying a 4x4 or a Gucci bag - I will make a decision based on my circumstances without third party pressure. Not that I feel pressued, even after swimming against the tide of some of your comments.

For the purpose of clarification only, and mainly for those of you who believed I would pts tonight on a whim (although I must admit I am disappointed in how easy it was for you to bite) I have not done so, nor will I - it was a simple pose. Nothing more. My initial point was to open suggestions to the floor - it is a shame people have become embedded in the idea of PTS. I did not assert this as the only option. Perhaps its an education for some of you to really look at the words which have been written.

I have just returned from being with her tonight, as I always do, ensuring she is tucked up in her freshly washed Rambo fleece, 2 nets of hay and lots of kisses.  

She is too much for me, always has been - but I am a sucker for a sad case and sometimes I need to consider my options. Its my prerogative. If I decide to PTS, I will. 

Don't judge me folks. Chill out. And don't have a go at eachother.
		
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You have come across as arogant and uncaring. 

You asked for opinions - you were given a number of suggestions; pts being the one that gained most backing as you seemed unwilling to keep spending money on her. The emphasis that you have made on how much you spend did not go unnoticed, hence more replies against you.

I realise that this is of no worth nor thought to you, but I am disappointed. You came here, asking what has been asked numerous times before, but you asked and you were answered. Leaving the brawling aside, there were well thought out and considered responses. You chose to wind up the readers with your comments about the bullet and then complain when they took the bait. Given your earlier comments regarding the money angle, what were people to think?

For the record: I have had one put to sleep due to illness - she went sooner rather than later; I have retired two, which I still have; and I have one that may or may not end up down either of those two routes. I have stated that if I cannot afford to keep any of the three of them for whatever reason, they will be put to sleep - the oldest is dangerous to ride, though sweet at all other times; the cob is broken and may never come right; the DWB has a pelvis issue that may result in the end of her ridden career or it may not. 

I would suggest that instead of putting down those that have tried to help you, you re-read your own words and see then through the eyes of others.

I won't be back on this thread. I have learnt a lesson tonight regarding my ability to judge a character.


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## Groom42 (27 October 2010)

Dizzyblonde99 said:



			I might be wrong and maybe noone has sugested this for a reason?? But why don't you advertise for help riding her? There are lots of people out there willing to help ride horses, she would be having more exersise that may well calm her down as you seem to have limited time to exersise her. And if you've lost your confidence with her a little somebody that is full of confidence may be able to help  Teenagers are well know for having no fear!!!

As a teenager myself that untill recently helped out with a 16yr ex racer I love this idea! The horse I had I feel really improved, and was working in a soft outline and jumping well, after a couple of years 

Click to expand...

OP: if you were to consider action such as the above, I would suggest asking someone much older/more experienced to ride her first, and actually "assess" her.  Her behaviour when ridden may just be down to your lack of confidence which of course she picks up on. A far more experienced and braver rider may be able to advise whether she is actually beyond redemption, or not. I would worry about inviting a young rider/braver, but possibly not that experienced, teenager to test drive a mare that could conceivably seriously injure someone.  Also, get recommendations on the candidate's abilities/experience from someone who is themselves experienced, and whose judgement you respect.  I have seen too many keen young riders saying they can do XYZ and then when they get on the horse, it is patently obvious they have no idea.  With a "normal" and completely sane horse that is bad enough - with something that has issues, it could be disastrous.


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## Chestnuttymare (27 October 2010)

Berkeley said:



			Its insightful to see so many members exposing their souls in this extremely sensitive post. I had no idea so many of you would respond, good and bad (and ugly in some cases).

I concede to the fact that the 'pah!' comment and calling the hunt was reckless. There was no conviction in my words. Honestly. Looking back, I was frustrated with the unfortunate approach some of you took to slash me - its so easy to wind those people up. I am not used to dealing with tunnel vision. Maybe that's why some of you will always be climbing a ladder with no rungs. 

The post has been construed as me being insensitive, uncaring, fickle and insufferable towards my horse. Perhaps my construction of sentances was too assertive and the tone was too slap dash. I can assure you (although with some of you it may just bounce off or give you something else to bite at) that I am 100% committed to her best interests whether it be to pass her on as a companion, loan her to someone she can trust more, keep her or to take the dark plunge to PTS. Either way it will be a choice carefully constructed and executed with a conscience mind. It makes no difference whether I am wealthy or not, whether I am buying a 4x4 or a Gucci bag - I will make a decision based on my circumstances without third party pressure. Not that I feel pressued, even after swimming against the tide of some of your comments.

For the purpose of clarification only, and mainly for those of you who believed I would pts tonight on a whim (although I must admit I am disappointed in how easy it was for you to bite) I have not done so, nor will I - it was a simple pose. Nothing more. My initial point was to open suggestions to the floor - it is a shame people have become embedded in the idea of PTS. I did not assert this as the only option. Perhaps its an education for some of you to really look at the words which have been written.

I have just returned from being with her tonight, as I always do, ensuring she is tucked up in her freshly washed Rambo fleece, 2 nets of hay and lots of kisses.  

She is too much for me, always has been - but I am a sucker for a sad case and sometimes I need to consider my options. Its my prerogative. If I decide to PTS, I will. 

Don't judge me folks. Chill out. And don't have a go at eachother.
		
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omg, what a different tone this post has! perhaps if you had posted in this manner then you would have been spared the wrath of the forum.  You came across very cold in your attitude with things like the 'pah' comment. Also the fact that you have had a horse for 4 years that you couldn't ride and did nothing about it. That was hardly giving  her the best chance.  
I still stand by my comment that free racehorses often end up with numpties, they do, i see it all the time. Had you seen past that and read the rest of my post, you would have seen that I had actually given you a reasonable suggestion and asked some pertinent questions, ie had you put an experienced rider on her to see if she responds better to another sort of rider and to have her assessed to establish what her problems really are.
you asked for opinions and you got them   Of course putting her to sleep is your perogative, but on a forum of horse lovers, you are obviously going to stir up emotion.  I think people did read the words and made their own judgement, I really doubt if you have given us much of an education. 

I am not averse to a horse being pts, i think there can be worse things happen to them than that, however, I do believe in them being given the best chance. Fair enough if she is a lost cause and you don't want to pay for her any longer then pts.

Joeanne, most racehorses don't retire at 2, really they don't. Lot's of point to pointers etc last into double figures and then go on to either a useful ridden life outwith racing or some of the other options that we all know about.
Mine is now in her 20's, still fit as a fiddle (wee bit arthritis but that's not uncommon), still ridden daily. This is a horse who was came to me from racing in a terrible mental state. I got help with her for the bits outwith my experience and well within a relatively short space of time I had a brilliant riding horse that I had a tremendous bond with. It all took time and a lot of effort but was totally worth it.
If she has to retire tomorrow then she will be with me til for the rest of her life, whether i ever sit on another horse or not.


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## Amymay (28 October 2010)

OP - just to add one more, hopefully constructive suggestion.

I see you've said that you're on full livery. Is it an option to have the horse exercised for you by a competent jockey?  Part of her excitability may be due to lack of ridden work.  I've actually yet to come across an ex race horse that is not brilliant to hack (although admitedly many of them become a bit of handful doing fast work in company (understandably)).

Alternatively looking to move her to a DIY yard will cut your costs in half - making retirement a more affordable option.

It's interesting to see that she was initially a bit of a rescue......  She clearly, therefore deserves only the best.


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## misst (28 October 2010)

Well I went out last night so checked this morning to find this.

OP I always thought you seemed like a nice poster but I am horrified at the tone of all your posts here. I am not sure if you think it is funny but you have put yourself across as an uncaring, unpleasant person. You were given very sound advice by some people but because you did not like it got even nastier.

As for working in litigation - well I for one would not want you working on my behalf with such ill considered statements as you have made on here.

I hope you and your mare find a good working arrangement. If not I hope she has a loving end.


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## el_Snowflakes (28 October 2010)

I think the other forum users will be interested to see this earlier post by OP...... .......and BERKLEY, I think we know what the problem is. After having a look through your other posts I found this. The fact that you would CONSIDER having an animal put to its death because you cannot ride properly is utterly beyond words, no decent vet would agree to do this...and YES it DOES cost money to learn to ride!!!!! cheapskate.....please dont ever have another horse...stick to your kitty cats!!!!




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
post for those who can ride


Ok bottom line I don't know how to ride. At all. I can sit and not fall off but nothing else. I have been successfully doing this *touch wood) for 4 years. 

I have never been (on horseback) to a show, or an event or x-country, or dressage or veteran show - nothing. The main issues are:

i) I have ever been taught how to canter so its just a case of me and my mare having an understanding that when I shorten the reins she goes. Then we spend the following minute negotiating about her speed - she usually wins.

ii) She doesn't trott. At all. Its walk or canter with her just wanting to go faster. We can't hack out with people because when they trott she just pulls and pulls and tries to overtake, or swing her bum right out so its impossible for me to control her. If you kick her back in she thinks "ahha! that means go!" This leads to me almost standing in the saddle bracing myself. I can't hold her back for too long as my muscles are not that strong so I have to shout to ask people to stop.

iii) I have only jumped twice in my life. And I am seriously rubbish.

iv) I am a nervous wreck when I am out. It takes me a good 30 mins to calm down. 

I keep thinking about having lessons but my mare is 21, she gets ridden once a week and rushes ALL THE TIME. The lessons I have been in consist of me spending most of the lesson pulling her back and trying to slow her down. She just won't learn. 

Has anyone been in this positon? i.e. too late to learn on an old ex-racer menatlist?! I know I could ride other horses but I have to pay for that. Is there any hope?! 





A


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## el_Snowflakes (28 October 2010)

................. just for the record when you kick a horse on it does mean 'go' and when you want to slow down you sit down in your saddle........God help you, sounds like you jumped into owning a horse WAAAAY too soon and the poor horse may have to pay with its life. This horse does not sound like a nutter, do you not realise that they can feel your nerves and they feed off them? There is nothing wrong with admitting that you are not confident etc but why should your horse pay the price??


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## Cedars (28 October 2010)

Wow, elsazzo thats truly quite low, digging up someone's old posts. Amazing. Really am going to bed now. x


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## Achinghips (28 October 2010)

flamehead said:



			Wow, elsazzo thats truly quite low, digging up someone's old posts.
		
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Well said.


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## el_Snowflakes (28 October 2010)

flamehead said:



			Wow, elsazzo thats truly quite low, digging up someone's old posts. Amazing. Really am going to bed now. x
		
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yes almost as low as considering putting a healthy horse down because you dont have the skill to ride it. I noticed someone else had said that they had had a flick over previous posts and noticed that the horse was happy and healthy so i thought id look for myself


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## Cedars (28 October 2010)

For what its worth if you fly through my old posts you'll see "I cant ride", "i'm a useless horse owner", "I'm going to ruin my pony" and numerous other stupid questions. However, I love my horse more than life itself - and I'm actually a very good rider! People lose confidence and need reassurance often. xxxx


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## HappyHorses:) (28 October 2010)

elsazzo said:



			yes almost as low as considering putting a healthy horse down because you dont have the skill to ride it. I noticed someone else had said that they had had a flick over previous posts and noticed that the horse was happy and healthy so i thought id look for myself
		
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For what is is worth I agree with you. The tone of the OP shocked quite a few of us yesterday


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## Flame_ (28 October 2010)

elsazzo said:



			There is nothing wrong with admitting that you are not confident etc but why should your horse pay the price??
		
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Grrrr. I don't know why you have felt the need to drag this and the past post back up but anyway, to answer the question... Because this horse is not suitable for the current owner and is not saleable. Can you see any experienced competent horse people thinking, "I'm going to buy a twenty-one year old ex-race horse that has spent the last 4 years being confused by a novice rider who is scared of her?' What would the advert say? Who would think this horse is worth putting money, time and effort into when they can just go and buy a nice, young, unspoiled tb for not a great deal of £££s? The only people this horse would appeal to are dodgy dealers who would quickly knock a few years off her age and sell her down the road passportless  to the next well meaning but naive buyer.


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## teddyt (29 October 2010)

lochpearl said:



			this is a joke right???
		
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Yeah. Please tell me this thread is a joke


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## el_Snowflakes (29 October 2010)

flamehead said:



			For what its worth if you fly through my old posts you'll see "I cant ride", "i'm a useless horse owner", "I'm going to ruin my pony" and numerous other stupid questions. However, I love my horse more than life itself - and I'm actually a very good rider! People lose confidence and need reassurance often. xxxx
		
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yes we all have moments like that, i dont know about most people but i generally do not cnsider getting my horse PTS because of it! the OP cleary says she has never been taught to ride properly and doesnt want to spend money learning to ride. She also doesnt want to spend money keeping a horse she doesnt have the ability to ride...i know where i would spend my money!


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## Cedars (29 October 2010)

If Puz was mine (shes not, shes a charity's horse so would always go back to them, but hypothetically), then yes I probably have had moments when I would have sold her on because I thought that I was ruining her or whatever. For example, the day she trampled me when I c*cked up teaching her that hoses aren't scary I even looked in to how much notice I had to give WHW to give her back! However, shes a gorgeous, young, fit and healthy horse. If she was an older, not fit horse with multiple problems, if I thought I couldnt give her the best I'd probably have her put down rather than sell her on to someone who I couldnt guarantee would look after her properly.

Clearly this is all hypothetical but I think you're being unrealistic assuming that it is always the best thing NOT to put down. 

Have another thought but will start new post on it.


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## Kokopelli (29 October 2010)

Haven't read all the responses so sorry if I'm repeating but I think your main options would be:

*Get her back, teeth and saddle checked she could be in pain!!*
Move to grass/ DIY livery so its cheaper and retire her
Once you know shes not in pain get someone experinced to ride her
PTS


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## NicoleS_007 (29 October 2010)

Wow this threads gotten long!! Havent read all replys as that would take a while lol ... Why not put her on DIY livery or grass livery instead of Full? It would save money anyway. Someone posted that shes only rode once a week? Tbh i think most horses would be overexuberent if only rode once a week, why not get someone at your yard to ride her the days you cannot or lunge her or take her on part loan/share. I know my ex racer had to be rode atleast 4 times a week to stay sane. I would give anything to have my horse back even if it ment retirement. Your mare looks so well and im sure you will do what is best for her


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## sian230 (1 November 2010)

Berkeley said:



			Any pay £350 p/m for something I can't use? Pah!
		
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That's a bit harsh.  Did you buy her knowing that she hadn't been re-schooled?  I own a 19 year old TB mare who has to have time off due to injuries caused by past loaners and I no longer ride, but find the thought of having her PTS impossible to even contemplate.  I think if you've bought the horse, then it's your responsibility to make sure they have a place to go until their quality of life dictates being PTS.  Be it a loan home, or out to grass.  I put my mare on full loan when she was capable of full work and now she is to be used as a light hack and due to people not lookig after her properly, no fault of hers or mine, I'm now having lots of trouble trying to find her a new, perfect 'forever' home.

I'm struggling at the moment having to pay £200 a month to keep her on grass livery unti I can find the perfect new home for her, but at the end of the day, it's your responsibility to find the home for your horse, rideable or not!

That's just my opinion anyway...


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## sian230 (1 November 2010)

Re my above post, I've only read the first couple of pages of this thread, so apologies for any duplicates or missing out on half of the story!


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## Cedars (1 November 2010)

Oh ffs STOP DRAGGING THIS UP! Grrrrrrrrr! Appreciate this isnt your fault Sian230 but I hate this new forum that it always reappears =[


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