# Feelings about people who keep their horses on full livery?



## Tentative86 (12 October 2020)

I was wondering if there are any negative aspects or feelings to keeping a horse on full livery? I'm in my mid thirties and tentatively considering horse ownership for the first time, but I would absolutely need full livery if I were to go ahead. I'd expect to be able to get to the yard 3-4 times a week, working out as one or two full days and a couple of afternoons. My prospective horse would be a seasoned cob most likely, and ideally we'd hack out (mostly alone) and have a couple of lessons a month. Is this kind of set-up considered unfair on the horse, or lacking in commitment on the part of the owner? I'd really love a horse of my own but I want to make sure I'm being fair on them and not being 'that owner'.

(If it makes any difference, my experience is approx 7 years of riding school/weekend stable work as a child and teenager. I'm now in my mid-thirties and started up lessons again at a local riding school a year or so ago and would say I'm about intermediate in that I'm comfortable with walk/trot/canter/smaller jumps, but definitely have plenty to work on in terms of form and learning to handle more difficult horses. I'm okay with strong/very forward, not so good with shy and sensitive. My current RS doesn't doesn't offer livery of any kind so would have to go elsewhere.)


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## Bob notacob (12 October 2020)

Queue of seasoned cobs seems to be forming ,Bob notacob says "come on lads " only one can get the job , I know its your dream job but no pushing ar queue jumping.


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## KittenInTheTree (12 October 2020)

The only negative aspects I experienced with regards to full livery were due to the yard failing to provide an acceptable level of care in my absence, so my advice is to choose your yard carefully and keep a close eye on how your horse is kept.


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## Equi (12 October 2020)

Provided the full livery is meeting the needs of the individual horse/owner there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. Its what they are paid for. The trick will be finding the livery that meets the standards you want consistently and willing to adapt to what you feel your horse needs. Something else to bear in mind though is that the horses at a riding school will always be worked more than any bog standard hacking horse, so finding a horse that is actually okay in that level of work will take some time and looking. As bob said, there is a long long que.


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## PapaverFollis (12 October 2020)

I'm not sure what problem you think there would be? If the horse in on full livery (provided it's a good one) then you can visit as often or as little as you like. That's the point of full livery.   There's plenty go to the yard a lot less than that! I've both worked on and kept my horse on a full livery yard and that level of visiting would put you pretty near the top of the list of regular owners in my experience! 

If you can afford it a proper proper full livery yard will work the horse for you too.


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## milliepops (12 October 2020)

^^^what they said. 
If you find the right yard then it sounds like you're being realistic about what you want and need, and if the horse's needs are met between you and the yard then that's perfect


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## Tentative86 (12 October 2020)

Thank you all!

@bob - Hahaha that made me laugh, thank you! 

@equi - I see what you mean about riding school horses always being worked more. What would you say is a suitable level of work for the average bog standard hacking horse? I'm not adverse to adding in say half an hour in the school before a hack.

@PapaverFollis - I suppose it's a hangover from my teenage horsegirl phase, where every horsey magazine I read (and I read MANY) seemed to say that having a horse required one to commit literally every spare minute to its care, including going before and after school, which honestly really put me off wanting one back then. I think perhaps they were trying to make the point to potentially frivolous teenager readers, and perhaps I took it a little too much to heart. It's good to hear there's no stigma around it!


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## Mackandtina (12 October 2020)

Tentative86 said:



			I was wondering if there are any negative aspects or feelings to keeping a horse on full livery? I'm in my mid thirties and tentatively considering horse ownership for the first time, but I would absolutely need full livery if I were to go ahead. I'd expect to be able to get to the yard 3-4 times a week, working out as one or two full days and a couple of afternoons. My prospective horse would be a seasoned cob most likely, and ideally we'd hack out (mostly alone) and have a couple of lessons a month. Is this kind of set-up considered unfair on the horse, or lacking in commitment on the part of the owner? I'd really love a horse of my own but I want to make sure I'm being fair on them and not being 'that owner'.

(If it makes any difference, my experience is approx 7 years of riding school/weekend stable work as a child and teenager. I'm now in my mid-thirties and started up lessons again at a local riding school a year or so ago and would say I'm about intermediate in that I'm comfortable with walk/trot/canter/smaller jumps, but definitely have plenty to work on in terms of form and learning to handle more difficult horses. I'm okay with strong/very forward, not so good with shy and sensitive. My current RS doesn't doesn't offer livery of any kind so would have to go elsewhere.)
		
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## Mackandtina (12 October 2020)

Tentative86 said:



			I was wondering if there are any negative aspects or feelings to keeping a horse on full livery? I'm in my mid thirties and tentatively considering horse ownership for the first time, but I would absolutely need full livery if I were to go ahead. I'd expect to be able to get to the yard 3-4 times a week, working out as one or two full days and a couple of afternoons. My prospective horse would be a seasoned cob most likely, and ideally we'd hack out (mostly alone) and have a couple of lessons a month. Is this kind of set-up considered unfair on the horse, or lacking in commitment on the part of the owner? I'd really love a horse of my own but I want to make sure I'm being fair on them and not being 'that owner'.

(If it makes any difference, my experience is approx 7 years of riding school/weekend stable work as a child and teenager. I'm now in my mid-thirties and started up lessons again at a local riding school a year or so ago and would say I'm about intermediate in that I'm comfortable with walk/trot/canter/smaller jumps, but definitely have plenty to work on in terms of form and learning to handle more difficult horses. I'm okay with strong/very forward, not so good with shy and sensitive. My current RS doesn't doesn't offer livery of any kind so would have to go elsewhere.)
		
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Hi. I keep my horse at full livery after returning to riding in my sixties. I have been on two yards. The first one was very friendly but a bit rough round the edges and not posh and the school was terrible. After two years I moved my mare to the stables across the road from my house which decided to do full 7 days livery. MISTAKE. I had not asked enough questions and assumed she would have been looked after like at the previous yard. The yard was immaculate and could have passed for a racing stables but she was kept short of hay, hardly any bedding, fed at 5 pm and not looked again/fed until after 9 am. I only discovered this when I went for a long ride and she nearly collapsed on the way back. I used to sneak across and give her more hay. They were so mean and even resented the water to soak her hay when they had a dusty load. She ended up with Asthma. My old yard took me back and we are both happy there. the owner goes the extra mile and is more like a friend. Ask, ask, and ask again and get it down in writing.


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## AUB (13 October 2020)

I love being on full livery. I get to do what I like: spend time with my horse and ride, but I don’t need to worry about turning her out in the morning or bringing in in the afternoon or mucking out or about the fields and fencing.
I make her food ready myself as she has special needs but YO feeds it to her.
I’m there for the farrier and vet.
I don’t think I’m missing out on anything interesting, to be honest!


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## OrangeAndLemon (13 October 2020)

I'll admit I got some bullying on my full livery yard from the one diy client who said people like me shouldn't have horses. 

My job meant I travelled regularly so was often away from home. I have this job and work the hours I do to give my horse his luxury full livery lifestyle where he has a set and comfortable routine with the best care I can afford and turnout all year round. Sometimes I could only see him on weekends but I paid for him to be schooled or hacked if I was away all week (he didn't need it)


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## IrishMilo (13 October 2020)

I've gone between DIY and full before. As above the only issue was that the standard of care was so poor that I'd end up going anyway, which negated the purpose.


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## Smogul (13 October 2020)

Tentative86 said:



			I'd really love a horse of my own but I want to make sure I'm being fair on them and not being 'that owner'.
		
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I am honestly not sure what you mean by not being fair on the horse. In my experience, horses neither notice nor care who mucks them out and ties up their haynet. We have always had our horses on full livery and can spend far more time with them because of this.


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## Skib (13 October 2020)

The whole point of a top livery yard giving total care, some turn out  plus exercise, I was told, is that if one of our clients needs to leave the UK on business, he can return 6 months later to find his horse still in excellent shape. 

This yard cost a great deal and it was suggested that I should look elsewhere because I had no need to pay for my horse to be exercised and I could clean my own tack.


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## awelshandawarmblood (13 October 2020)

IrishMilo said:



			I've gone between DIY and full before. As above the only issue was that the standard of care was so poor that I'd end up going anyway, which negated the purpose.
		
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This is what happened to me. I've tried full & part in a good few places, none of which did what I asked or they said they would. One place I even resulted to 'turning up days I wasn't supposed to' & catching them out with various things. I'm sure there's some fantastic places but definitely speak to people who are there already, it would work perfectly for you I'm sure, if you can find that gem of a place. I'm now back on DIY!


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## gallopingby (13 October 2020)

Good full livery is expensive if done well, (and sometimes if not done). If you can find a suitable yard that is happy to take your cob lm sure you’ll have great fun. I would recommend looking for a showing/ eventing type yard with a good reputation, you may be lucky and find one, probably by word of mouth, looking for a sensible client. Full livery yards are quite often happy to have known people around who might offer to lend a hand and with luck you would learn loads from them.
On the experience front l think you’d be advised to describe your experience as ‘enthusiastic riding school intermediate. I would expect an intermediate to be pretty competent. Good luck in your search for a cob, you may have to widen your wish list or you’ll be waiting a long time unless you’re exceptionally lucky.


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## windand rain (13 October 2020)

I have never used full livery services have always either been DIY or rented grazing my concern with any livery yard is turnout you shouldn't keep a horse at all if it will stand more than 12 hours per 24 inside in a small stable. give or take a few hours. Turnout is vital all year round in every weather condition. When I offered full livery I made sure every horse was out wouldn't take on one that was not allowed to go in a turnout area of some sort all day or night unless on veterinary advice. It also depends on who you want riding your horse which type of livery to chose ridden livery is more expensive but worth it if you like the staff. Turnout is even more important if they are not riding your horse a horse walker is not an alternative to either turnout or proper exercise. Finding good livery services especially in areas with too many horses and clay soil is like finding a life partner you will need to kiss a few frogs before you find one that is right for you


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## ihatework (13 October 2020)

The questions to ask OP are really the following

- When buying a horse makes sure it’s one that is happy to be ridden 3-4 times a week and doesn’t need more for either managing waistline or managing its brain.

- When choosing a yard make sure you have one that has suitable facilities for the bad weather. If it’s a day you aren’t riding ideally your horse needs to be out in a field all day not stood in 24/7. A horse walker is ok as hoc but I wouldn’t want to be reliant on it 3-4 days a week if there is no turnout.


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## tallyho! (13 October 2020)

I've had to put my horse on full livery (at a different facility than usual) on many occasions and I've also paid for other people look after my horse at the usual place... I prefer the latter. 

If I had to send mine away I wouldn't choose a "traditional" livery now. I've found two amazing open barn track liveries near me and they only do full livery and have a long queue! There is a huge demand for this I think.


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## Pinkvboots (13 October 2020)

If you can find a good full livery yard why not but in my experience they are not that easy to find, I have worked on loads of yards over the years and can honestly say only 1 place was up to my standard of proper full livery.

It's not for everyone but if you don't have the time and can afford it sometimes it's the only way you will be able to have a horse.


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## Starzaan (13 October 2020)

If it weren’t for people needing full livery I would not have had a business for many years.
In a lot of instances I wish more people would keep their horses on full livery and accept that they don’t have the knowledge experience or time to properly care for a horse.


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## eggs (13 October 2020)

Sounds like a sensible idea to me as with the correct yard you will have good support already in place.  I've had my horses at home for 20 years now but previously did DIY, part, full and schooling livery.  I guess livery may have changed over the years but I can honestly say that I was always happy with the standard of care and turnout with the exception of one yard that took on too many horses and started to restrict turnout but that went for the DIY and part liveries.

Mucking out, poo picking, feed making, hay delivery, etc do not make the bond with your horse.  It is spending time with him/her and if you are not spending a lot of your yard time doing the stable chores you will be able to spend more time with your horse.

I would probably describe you as a competent novice so you would be looking for a 'been there and done it' type who will look after you.  Riding school horses are usually quite different to a privately owned horse so you will definitely want to be looking for one that can have a few days off work and still be nice and sane when you next ride.


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## shamrock2021 (14 October 2020)

Full livery is brilliant I think A lot more people should be on it.


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## Widgeon (14 October 2020)

Also worth considering are part livery and 5 day livery - I've found that people describe their own livery offerings quite differently, so don't automatically rule out yards that "only" provide part livery. I'm technically on DIY livery, but the YO will bring in and turn out in winter, and feed and hay in the fields. And generally keep an eye on them, so all I have to do is turn up once a day and poo pick the field for fifteen minutes. Personally I wouldn't describe that as DIY, but it's what the YO calls it. So always worth a chat with the owner / manager if you think you've found a nice yard.


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## 18hhOlls&Me (20 October 2020)

PapaverFollis said:



			I'm not sure what problem you think there would be? If the horse in on full livery (provided it's a good one) then you can visit as often or as little as you like. That's the point of full livery.   There's plenty go to the yard a lot less than that! I've both worked on and kept my horse on a full livery yard and that level of visiting would put you pretty near the top of the list of regular owners in my experience!

If you can afford it a proper proper full livery yard will work the horse for you too.
		
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And if you are on full livery you will get good support from the YO and staff with anything you may be initially unsure of. And I agree a good full livery will also make sure the horse is in the right amount of work lunged or ridden which could be useful especially if you are starting from a slightly less experienced point. Also consider finding a yard where the YO gives lessons or there is a yard instructor, to keep improving your riding for you and your horse


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## 18hhOlls&Me (20 October 2020)

Tentative86 said:



			I was wondering if there are any negative aspects or feelings to keeping a horse on full livery? I'm in my mid thirties and tentatively considering horse ownership for the first time, but I would absolutely need full livery if I were to go ahead. I'd expect to be able to get to the yard 3-4 times a week, working out as one or two full days and a couple of afternoons. My prospective horse would be a seasoned cob most likely, and ideally we'd hack out (mostly alone) and have a couple of lessons a month. Is this kind of set-up considered unfair on the horse, or lacking in commitment on the part of the owner? I'd really love a horse of my own but I want to make sure I'm being fair on them and not being 'that owner'.

(If it makes any difference, my experience is approx 7 years of riding school/weekend stable work as a child and teenager. I'm now in my mid-thirties and started up lessons again at a local riding school a year or so ago and would say I'm about intermediate in that I'm comfortable with walk/trot/canter/smaller jumps, but definitely have plenty to work on in terms of form and learning to handle more difficult horses. I'm okay with strong/very forward, not so good with shy and sensitive. My current RS doesn't doesn't offer livery of any kind so would have to go elsewhere.)
		
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I have relied on full livery for years now since having a daughter and going back to work, it’s an amazing yard and the full livery package is great, with use of an XC course facility. Full livery means you will know your horse is properly cared for and you can learn from the staff. Also as you are getting back into riding definitely take an experienced friend with you when looking to buy, and consider letting them try the horse first, some vendors may assume if you describe yourself as intermediate that you are actually riding literally at intermediate level in a competitive sense which requires a relatively high ability. You don’t want to overhorse yourself and lose confidence. Good luck! X


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## Winters100 (20 October 2020)

Nothing wrong with it at all, and will mean that the time you have with your horse can be spent enjoying him rather than mucking out his box.  Just make sure that the yard is good so you can be confident in the care that your horse receives.  Also 100% agree with TheGentlemanMrDarcy about choosing a horse. Take someone with you and do not be tempted to buy a horse that you need more skills for than you have today. While it is possible to grow into a horse it takes a lot of time and money, lots of lessons and trainers, and sometimes neither of these will actually mean that it is ever the right horse for you. Buy one who you feel confident on today and you will have much more fun. Good luck!


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## 18hhOlls&Me (20 October 2020)

Smogul said:



			I am honestly not sure what you mean by not being fair on the horse. In my experience, horses neither notice nor care who mucks them out and ties up their haynet. We have always had our horses on full livery and can spend far more time with them because of this.[/QUOTE


OrangeAndLemon said:



			I'll admit I got some bullying on my full livery yard from the one diy client who said people like me shouldn't have horses.

My job meant I travelled regularly so was often away from home. I have this job and work the hours I do to give my horse his luxury full livery lifestyle where he has a set and comfortable routine with the best care I can afford and turnout all year round. Sometimes I could only see him on weekends but I paid for him to be schooled or hacked if I was away all week (he didn't need it)
		
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thats ridiculous- I assume said DIY individual was most probably jealous of watching you enjoy and ride your horse while her horse languished in the field/box as she dragged wheelbarrow after wheelbarrow full to the muck heap! I’ve been on part 5 day livery before and it just meant more chores eating into my quality time with my boy! At least kicking out got me fit though lol 😂 😂
		
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## 18hhOlls&Me (20 October 2020)

Kicking out?! Mucking out I meant obviously 🙄 x


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## 18hhOlls&Me (20 October 2020)

Winters100 said:



			Nothing wrong with it at all, and will mean that the time you have with your horse can be spent enjoying him rather than mucking out his box.  Just make sure that the yard is good so you can be confident in the care that your horse receives.  Also 100% agree with TheGentlemanMrDarcy about choosing a horse. Take someone with you and do not be tempted to buy a horse that you need more skills for than you have today. While it is possible to grow into a horse it takes a lot of time and money, lots of lessons and trainers, and sometimes neither of these will actually mean that it is ever the right horse for you. Buy one who you feel confident on today and you will have much more fun. Good luck!
		
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If you find a good yard first and commit to being on the yard if you do buy, with a good YO, they may be able to help you find the right horse, and may even go with you to try them out. They may also know people on their yard looking for a sharer or loaner which is a good stepping stone to full ownership x


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## Winters100 (20 October 2020)

OrangeAndLemon said:



			I'll admit I got some bullying on my full livery yard from the one diy client who said people like me shouldn't have horses.
		
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That is utterly absurd.  People seem to have some idea that horses care about who feeds them or washes their legs.  We have a terribly nice lady who has the paddock next to mine, and her Mother is always pointing out how much my horses 'love' me, because they whinny and come to the gate at lunchtime or follow me without a rope.  I really like her, but let's be honest they are coming for food and they follow me because this is what they were trained to do.  I adore my horses, and am very grateful that I can be with them every day, but they simply view me as someone who is not a threat, is calm and consistent and expects certain things, and who brings food.  I usually give lunch so they call to me at lunchtime, if I am there in the evening when the groom feeds they call to him. We are not the only ones who can care for our horses, and over the years I have been very grateful for advice and help from experienced YOs.


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## fredflop (25 October 2020)

If you read in the tack room page of this forum, there is often a lot of “reverse snobbery”.

people on certain posts only seem to think that a horse should be kept on diy livery, and if you have full livery you are some kind of devil that should be burnt in hell.

I’ve mostly had horses on full livery, but have had diy a few times. The only thing I like about diy is that I can choose exactly what to feed and tinker around with quantity of feed and supplements very easily.


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## MuddyMonster (25 October 2020)

You sound sensible! I've been on DIY to part livery my time and have enjoyed and taken advantage of aspects of both  

Providing you find the right yard, part or full livery can be brilliant & I'd say well worth doing in your circumstances. 

There's no holy grail for the right yard either - I prioritised 24/7 turn out suitable for a barefoot horse with a history of laminitis with good hacking and got it so love where I am. Whereas a good turn yard for a competitive dressage rider might look very different. 

Do also be aware that lots of yards may call their packages slightly different things. 

My friend is on 'part livery' and the YO feeds and turns out in the AM Monday - Friday and can bring in PM by arrangement for an additional fee. The owner has to do stable chores and poo picking fields,  groom and ride etc and has to buy in own hay and feed or pay for the additional services. I personally consider that akin to Assisted DIY and I've been on a similiar arrangement before but it's 'part livery' on her yard.  

I'm on part livery (albeit turned out 24/7) 7 days a week and the YO provides all care except a full groom*, riding and tack cleaning seven days a week. Ad-lib hay and a choice of bucket feed is provided (If you want to feed something else, then you have to provide it) and I just have to supply supplements.  *The YO picks out feet daily (and will do thrush treatment spray etc) and will brush off enough mud etc to put rugs on if required but if I want to look smart-ish for a lesson I'll need to groom myself  

There are others on the yard that come up once or twice a week or even less often and their horse's are perfectly well looked after in between their visits. 

If I wanted him full groomed and/or exercised and/or tack cleaned she offers a full livery service(s) too. As it is, I tend to go up daily to groom and ride so the basic part livery package more than suits me. 

Good luck with your search for the right horse


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## PapaverFollis (25 October 2020)

fredflop said:



			If you read in the tack room page of this forum, there is often a lot of “reverse snobbery”.

people on certain posts only seem to think that a horse should be kept on diy livery, and if you have full livery you are some kind of devil that should be burnt in hell.
		
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Eh? 🤔


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## Winters100 (25 October 2020)

Now I have a question - I always thought 'half livery' in UK terms was everything done except for riding the horse, so boxes, rugs, turnout, feeds, horse walker etc. Am I wrong about this?

I have this arrangement, except that if you want them to be given lunch they can either be given in the paddock (so only really works if turned out alone), or given lunch inside, but in which case they stay in their box for the afternoon.  As mine are out as a pack I give lunches myself or ask a friend to do it so they get whole day outside. 

Am I right that this is 'half livery'?


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## PapaverFollis (25 October 2020)

Winters100 said:



			Now I have a question - I always thought 'half livery' in UK terms was everything done except for riding the horse, so boxes, rugs, turnout, feeds, horse walker etc. Am I wrong about this?

I have this arrangement, except that if you want them to be given lunch they can either be given in the paddock (so only really works if turned out alone), or given lunch inside, but in which case they stay in their box for the afternoon.  As mine are out as a pack I give lunches myself or ask a friend to do it so they get whole day outside.

Am I right that this is 'half livery'?
		
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It depends.  I was at a yard that called just basic care, no riding or grooming "full". Or full can mean everything with a cherry on top. Part can mean what you describe right through to just morning feeds and turnout!  Or full livery for weekdays and completely DIY weekends! There's no set rule I don't think.


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## The Jokers Girl (26 October 2020)

I don't get why people feel that full livery is in some way doing a disservice to your horse.  I work at a yard offering mostly full livery and it works well for the owners.  Everything gets fed and turnout out at the same time, so nothing is stood in hungry waiting on an owner that can't get out of bed and come up for whatever reason and when the owners are short of time, or just enjoy spending time with their horse, they can actually spend time in the company of the horse not muck out its stable, wash buckets and fill nets whilst the horse has no idea they are there, as it is busy munching in the field.  Full livery, part livery, diy or any combination in between works at different times for different owners and as long as the horse has a deep dry bed, clean water and plenty of forage does it really matter who gives them that.


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## Mule (26 October 2020)

I think it's bizarre that anyone would look down on someone for having their horse on full livery. I wouldn't mind it myself, especially when it's dark and wet in winter.


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## 1523679 (26 October 2020)

Lucky them!

Or perhaps just sensible - if you work long hours to earn your pennies, why not spend them paying someone else to poo-pick by headtorch in the pouring rain, so that you can use your scarce free time in the most efficient way possible?


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## Maesto's Girl (26 October 2020)

I couldn't have mine on full - I am too Picky! But I have moved to part livery at a small, private yard (3 years ago) and that was the best decision I ever made. Whilst I was in London 3 days a week (Tues-Thurs pre-covid), my mare was on full livery for those days, but I would ride on the Wednesday evening as I started and finished earlier, then the other days (Fri-Mon) she is on part livery. This includes everything except mucking out and exercise - so turnout's/bring in/feeds/hays/rugs/poo picking etc is all covered. Now, even though I am not in London, I still have 1 day a week full livery which just gives me that break I need. 

Ironically however, I now work at the yard Friday - Monday so I do the AM routine for my mare anyway - along with 10 others 

Perhaps you could look to find a similar arrangement? So on the days where you do have the time, you can do more? And as such, don't pay the 7 day full livery premium? 

I don't think there's any issue with people who are on full livery though. The issue I have always had though is with those who have their horse on full livery but then don't see it for months? Makes no sense to me!


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## Winters100 (26 October 2020)

Maesto's Girl said:



			The issue I have always had though is with those who have their horse on full livery but then don't see it for months? Makes no sense to me!
		
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I don't really get why you would have an issue with this.  Is it because you think that the horses are not properly cared for?  I go every day to mine, but if I could not I would probably prefer to pay for great care from a YO that I trusted than to sell.  If someone is not visiting their horses it may be for a wide variety of reasons, and not really for others to judge.


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## 18hhOlls&Me (26 October 2020)

Maesto's Girl said:



			I couldn't have mine on full - I am too Picky! But I have moved to part livery at a small, private yard (3 years ago) and that was the best decision I ever made. Whilst I was in London 3 days a week (Tues-Thurs pre-covid), my mare was on full livery for those days, but I would ride on the Wednesday evening as I started and finished earlier, then the other days (Fri-Mon) she is on part livery. This includes everything except mucking out and exercise - so turnout's/bring in/feeds/hays/rugs/poo picking etc is all covered. Now, even though I am not in London, I still have 1 day a week full livery which just gives me that break I need. 

Ironically however, I now work at the yard Friday - Monday so I do the AM routine for my mare anyway - along with 10 others 

Perhaps you could look to find a similar arrangement? So on the days where you do have the time, you can do more? And as such, don't pay the 7 day full livery premium? 

I don't think there's any issue with people who are on full livery though. The issue I have always had though is with those who have their horse on full livery but then don't see it for months? Makes no sense to me!
		
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I’m on full livery and have been down 3 times to see Darce this week already. He is relatively new to me and already attached as I spend my time riding him, grooming him, cuddling him and talking to him. The yard girls are great but they rotate so he doesn’t associate with any one of them particularly. I also like the fact that I have the time to make sure his rugs are cleaned and tidy, his tack is lovely and clean, etc. 
There is a small number of people who are on full livery and don’t or can’t come down to ride very often. There are also yards with DIY owners who come down, muck out in a rush and leave. I would say overall horses on full livery maybe get to spend more ‘fun time’ with their owners; doing chores for them like mucking out doesn’t mean anything to them or prove you love them more. I have a 3 year old daughter at nursery 3 days a week and a part time job (my other half works full time) so I work hard so that my loved ones (including Darcy) get pampered by me, and in Darcys case by the lovely staff at the yard when I’m not there. If my daughter is poorly and needs a few days at home I know Darcy is being cared for the staff and lunged by the YO who is also my trainer. You can find bad owners with horses on DIY, part, full, even competition livery. One of my friends is a Dr and rarely gets time to see her mare anymore but she has her on an amazing yard, she is ridden all the time by the YO and head girl and why should she give her up just because she has an incredibly hardcore job with almost no free time. My yard is the best I’ve ever been on and it’s only a few full or competition liveries alongside the owners own horses and the horses she rides professionally competitively for their owners who can’t ride. There is a whole spectrum and as long as the horses are getting properly cared for, ridden and kept fit appropriately and getting kind attention every day then I don’t think anyone should be judged. I’ve stood up for people on DIY in the past when people have said that they shouldn’t have a horse if they are rushing down in the winter just to make sure they have a clean bed and full tummy. Another lady I know has her horse on full livery as she is her husbands full time carer. That’s the other thing, even if you don’t approve of the principle of full livery, you usually just have no way of knowing people’s situation and what’s going on in their lives!


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## SO1 (26 October 2020)

I am on part livery including everything except grooming, excercise and tack cleaning. 

I love my pony just as much as the DIY people but my circumstances are different so I can't commit to DIY livery at the moment. I live in and work in London and no suitable yards local to where I live. I often don't get to the yard till 7.30pm so not practical to be on DIY unless he was living out. I still enjoy spending time with my pony at least 4 days a week. He has good care and I play an active role in decisions about his care and routine. 

The only downside is the cost really.


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## 18hhOlls&Me (27 October 2020)

Winters100 said:



			Now I have a question - I always thought 'half livery' in UK terms was everything done except for riding the horse, so boxes, rugs, turnout, feeds, horse walker etc. Am I wrong about this?

I have this arrangement, except that if you want them to be given lunch they can either be given in the paddock (so only really works if turned out alone), or given lunch inside, but in which case they stay in their box for the afternoon.  As mine are out as a pack I give lunches myself or ask a friend to do it so they get whole day outside.

Am I right that this is 'half livery'?
		
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It’s true that it varies, but my past experience was generally that on mixed yards part livery is like full, except on part livery on the weekends you are expected to muck out, make up hay nets, fill water buckets if needed, rug them up or chang/remove rugs, groom etc. Riding or lungeing on full or part is extra. DIY you Usually just get the horse T/O and brought in- nothing else, although most yards offer DIY liveries services like grooming, mucking out etc for a small charge if you are poorly for example and can’t get there. Assisted livery is DIY but with prearranged services built into the cost, eg the horse is mucked out every Tuesday and Thursday because you work late those days for example.

However the last yard I was on, and my current yard (there is only one lady on part livery and that is for a particular reason)- everyone is on full or competition livery, with the only difference being competition livery offers show prep, ie bathing, plaiting up etc at any time required . On full you pay extra for show prep or do it yourself. All horses are ridden if you can’t make it down and you want them ridden or lunged. All liveries can access Xc course, SJ arenas etc. So I think Competition yards run differently offering a pricey but comprehensive service x


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## JennBags (27 October 2020)

fredflop said:



			If you read in the tack room page of this forum, there is often a lot of “reverse snobbery”.

people on certain posts only seem to think that a horse should be kept on diy livery, and if you have full livery you are some kind of devil that should be burnt in hell.

I’ve mostly had horses on full livery, but have had diy a few times. The only thing I like about diy is that I can choose exactly what to feed and tinker around with quantity of feed and supplements very easily.
		
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Really? I've never seen/noticed any posts like this.

I've been on part livery and it was great.  Absolutely nothing wrong with full or part livery if you find a good yard that you can trust.
However, moving to DIY did make a difference to the bond between me and my horse.  It's not the mucking out per se, but the feeding them, the turning out, the bringing in, which make a difference, the horse looks to you as it's primary caregiver.  Also I am a lot quicker to pick up on when he might be feeling a little off, if his poo isn't quite the same, if he's drinking less or more water than usual, if he's trashed his stable one night.  I also like being in total control over the amount and type of feed and hay that he receives.


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## MuddyMonster (27 October 2020)

I think generally a good owner is a good owner regardless of whether they are DIY or full livery. I've seen great DIY owners, I've seen not so great DIY owners and I've seen great full livery owners and I've seen not so great full livery owners.

It's not necessarily about who orders the hay or poo picks the field or whatever but I think about the attitude of the owner.

'Even' on part livery, I still consider my boy a fundamental member of our family and a friend first, regardless of who picks up his poo


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## Mule (27 October 2020)

JennBags said:



			Really? I've never seen/noticed any posts like this.

I've been on part livery and it was great.  Absolutely nothing wrong with full or part livery if you find a good yard that you can trust.
However, moving to DIY did make a difference to the bond between me and my horse.  It's not the mucking out per se, but the feeding them, the turning out, the bringing in, which make a difference, the horse looks to you as it's primary caregiver.  Also I am a lot quicker to pick up on when he might be feeling a little off, if his poo isn't quite the same, if he's drinking less or more water than usual, if he's trashed his stable one night.  I also like being in total control over the amount and type of feed and hay that he receives.
		
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You do learn a lot more on diy or when keeping them at home. Wound treatment, giving injections and similar. I'm like tracker when it comes to poo. I can identify the horse by the size and colour of the poo 😳


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## shamrock2021 (27 October 2020)

I don’t understand why people criticised people who have there horse on full livery. I personally think it’s jealousy because if they got a chance they would be on full livery.

it doesn’t matter what livery you are on once the horse is being taken care of. Where I am from A lot of yard owners  aren’t  offering DLY because they are making  no money from it a lot of them say it’s a waste of time because they aren’t getting anything out of it .  Most years are full livery only where I live there is only one DLY yard.


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## Maesto's Girl (27 October 2020)

Sorry I should have been clearer. My issue isn't so much the horse being on full livery - it's those who have their horses on full livery but never see them. Yes I know there are cases out there whereby they *can't* but there are also those who just don't. I personally couldn't have a horse and not see it for months.

For me, not having full livery is my choice as I am too fussy - not because I have anything against those who afford it and are lucky to find a livery yard that meets their needs. I could have my mare on full livery, I just choose not to. Not saying the bond with my horse is better or worse than people who see their horse on full livery regularly either. 

Not once did I say I didn't approve with the principle of full livery in my comment. Just wanted to make that clear. I know it's my barrier as I want things done a certain way


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## 18hhOlls&Me (27 October 2020)

JennBags said:



			Really? I've never seen/noticed any posts like this.

I've been on part livery and it was great.  Absolutely nothing wrong with full or part livery if you find a good yard that you can trust.
However, moving to DIY did make a difference to the bond between me and my horse.  It's not the mucking out per se, but the feeding them, the turning out, the bringing in, which make a difference, the horse looks to you as it's primary caregiver.  Also I am a lot quicker to pick up on when he might be feeling a little off, if his poo isn't quite the same, if he's drinking less or more water than usual, if he's trashed his stable one night.  I also like being in total control over the amount and type of feed and hay that he receives.
		
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 that’s it though, if you find a yard that’s right for you, you can feed them, bring them in etc when you are there, with the knowledge that when you aren’t they are getting the best care. When I’m down for the day I do everything except muck out, including bringing him in, taking him out, haying him and giving him his breakfast/tea etc. And I’m lucky as many are that whilst all staff are good, they all work in rotation so I’m the most familiar to him. Plus because when riding I talk to him, tell him well done, or slow down a little etc with a little scratch on his neck that he loves, so when I call him from the field he comes to me now without any feed in my hand! And I’ve decided on his feed from day one. As long as your yard supports the fact that you make the decisions regarding your horses care, and you are able to carry out any tasks you want to when you are there especially for the best part of a day, you will be the primary caregiver even if they see various other (very talented) staff members on other days. I don’t know anyone else who will spend an hour brushing my horse and who knows all his favourite spots to make his lip wobble and go half to sleep when you scratch! Look at Charlotte Dujardin and Valegro- with an army of grooms and a head groom who likely fed him often, their connection was undeniable and I’m pretty sure she was his fave human! X


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## Widgeon (2 November 2020)

I keep seeing this thread and thinking "gahh I wish I had the money for a nice full livery yard"....then all I'd have to do would be cuddle and ride. Rather than slop through mud, scrub grease from rugs, shovel endless amounts of poo (now mixed with mud), do things with fences involving electrocuting myself....I could go on but I'd probably just end up weeping.


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## Kat (2 November 2020)

Tentative86 said:



			I was wondering if there are any negative aspects or feelings to keeping a horse on full livery? I'm in my mid thirties and tentatively considering horse ownership for the first time, but I would absolutely need full livery if I were to go ahead. I'd expect to be able to get to the yard 3-4 times a week, working out as one or two full days and a couple of afternoons. My prospective horse would be a seasoned cob most likely, and ideally we'd hack out (mostly alone) and have a couple of lessons a month. Is this kind of set-up considered unfair on the horse, or lacking in commitment on the part of the owner? I'd really love a horse of my own but I want to make sure I'm being fair on them and not being 'that owner'.

(If it makes any difference, my experience is approx 7 years of riding school/weekend stable work as a child and teenager. I'm now in my mid-thirties and started up lessons again at a local riding school a year or so ago and would say I'm about intermediate in that I'm comfortable with walk/trot/canter/smaller jumps, but definitely have plenty to work on in terms of form and learning to handle more difficult horses. I'm okay with strong/very forward, not so good with shy and sensitive. My current RS doesn't doesn't offer livery of any kind so would have to go elsewhere.)
		
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I keep my horse on what is called full livery on our yard, but many on here would call part or half livery. 

My horse is brought in and turned out for me, she gets rugs changed, stable/turnout boots changed, mucked out, feed, hay and water done. She isn't exercised as part of the package.

I love it, I have done other types of livery but honestly it works out better for me as I have a busy job and (normally) a long commute. Livery services mean that I don't have to worry about my horse standing waiting to come in if I am delayed, or running out of hay because I am late. I can also spend all of my free time riding, grooming, fussing and doing the nice stuff. 

I do jobs if I am there, I have full control of her feed, and I visit most days. I perhaps have one or two days a month when I don't go (apart from holidays), because I like to see my horse and spend time with her but if I have plans I can rely upon the yard to ensure her needs are met. 

I trust the people that look after her and this is really important, that and a set up that suits your horse, look at things like the amount of turnout offered and whether it is herds or pairs or solo and how much grass there is, what the routine is etc. No point trying to fit a round peg into a square hole. 

Full livery is great when you are a new owner too, it is a big adjustment and learning curve so why not make sure you are set up for success by having someone experienced providing the basic care in the early days. You can then focus on getting to know your horse rather than learning how to muck out. 

The other arrangement to consider would be 5 day livery, depending upon your home life full livery Monday - Friday and DIY/assisted at the weekend can be a good compromise.


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## oldie48 (17 November 2020)

Having kept my horses at home for the past 21 years I now have Rose on full livery at a yard with superb facilities. The care is brilliant, I often get a pic sent at 10.00 in the evening of Rose fast asleep. I go up most days and her stable is always immaculate, she has plenty of turnout and has an area outside her stable which she can access whenever she likes, day or night. It's not cheap but she is happy and settled. I can't even do much riding ATM but love watching her sharer ride but she is still very much my horse. However, the care is the most important thing and that does depend on the staff, Rose doesn't know she's in a posh stable but she does know it's big and that she has a big fluffy bed. She also knows there is a routine, so she knows what to expect. I think that's one of the best things about full livery, there is a regular time when things happen and I do think horses are more settled. sometimes on DIY yards, it's all a bit ad hoc with horses being fed and turned out at different times which can be unsettling for them.


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## PurBee (17 November 2020)

I fully understand why folk would do full livery...and think theyre smart!
Having horses at home has its perks, but i used to think it was ‘THE ultimate best thing’ -until doing it.

We all know a horse needs herd mates, so at home you need to care for at least 2...but more is best...3 minimum so one isnt left lonely while riding one. So automatically to keep your 1 preferred riding horse sane you need to buy and feed/care for 3 horses in total, in a home set-up.
Thats expensive and very labour heavy for 1 person to do ALL the yard work etc for 3 horses and have a ‘life/work/relationships/friendships’ outside of horse needs.

Also horses at home dont get the exposure to various people and animals to the extent that yard horses do. Being flight animals, we know de-sensitising them to all sorts of various stimuli makes them safer to ride and handle. 
I’m rural, like many at home horses are, and mine are intrigued even when a car passes! Or a person theyve never seen before! You can bet when im poulticing a foot, that the once in a blue moon weird distraction will show up and i’ve got a distracted curious horse who wont just stand and chill.

So exposing them to stimuli that’s going to trigger fight flight i do regularly, and a passer-by seeing me putting an empty shavings bag on their neck would think im probably abusing them! Lol

The cost of bringing all feed/bedding to the homestead, and the usual other costs, aswell as general field/fence farm maintenance costs - i know NOW thats loads more than full livery, and i’d sell up and do full livery in a heartbeat, IF i could find a nice yard. Thats the key point - finding a yard with nice staff, liveries, facilities and being close to home.
Because of yard hassles many dream of having a horse at home...understandably....but the work load is horrendous for 1 person.


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## SBJT (18 November 2020)

Kat said:



			I keep my horse on what is called full livery on our yard, but many on here would call part or half livery.

My horse is brought in and turned out for me, she gets rugs changed, stable/turnout boots changed, mucked out, feed, hay and water done. She isn't exercised as part of the package.

I love it, I have done other types of livery but honestly it works out better for me as I have a busy job and (normally) a long commute. Livery services mean that I don't have to worry about my horse standing waiting to come in if I am delayed, or running out of hay because I am late. I can also spend all of my free time riding, grooming, fussing and doing the nice stuff.

I do jobs if I am there, I have full control of her feed, and I visit most days. I perhaps have one or two days a month when I don't go (apart from holidays), because I like to see my horse and spend time with her but if I have plans I can rely upon the yard to ensure her needs are met.

I trust the people that look after her and this is really important, that and a set up that suits your horse, look at things like the amount of turnout offered and whether it is herds or pairs or solo and how much grass there is, what the routine is etc. No point trying to fit a round peg into a square hole.

Full livery is great when you are a new owner too, it is a big adjustment and learning curve so why not make sure you are set up for success by having someone experienced providing the basic care in the early days. You can then focus on getting to know your horse rather than learning how to muck out.

The other arrangement to consider would be 5 day livery, depending upon your home life full livery Monday - Friday and DIY/assisted at the weekend can be a good compromise.
		
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I do this too and love it. If I don’t get out it’s not the end of the world and I know he’s well taken care of. If I didn’t I don’t think I’d have time to relax especially with school work and working 40 hrs a week. I don’t even have time to clean the house as it is.


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## equestrian7474 (29 November 2020)

Tentative86 said:



			I was wondering if there are any negative aspects or feelings to keeping a horse on full livery? I'm in my mid thirties and tentatively considering horse ownership for the first time, but I would absolutely need full livery if I were to go ahead. I'd expect to be able to get to the yard 3-4 times a week, working out as one or two full days and a couple of afternoons. My prospective horse would be a seasoned cob most likely, and ideally we'd hack out (mostly alone) and have a couple of lessons a month. Is this kind of set-up considered unfair on the horse, or lacking in commitment on the part of the owner? I'd really love a horse of my own but I want to make sure I'm being fair on them and not being 'that owner'.

(If it makes any difference, my experience is approx 7 years of riding school/weekend stable work as a child and teenager. I'm now in my mid-thirties and started up lessons again at a local riding school a year or so ago and would say I'm about intermediate in that I'm comfortable with walk/trot/canter/smaller jumps, but definitely have plenty to work on in terms of form and learning to handle more difficult horses. I'm okay with strong/very forward, not so good with shy and sensitive. My current RS doesn't doesn't offer livery of any kind so would have to go elsewhere.)
		
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I keep my horse in full livery and I have no issues with it! As long as you do some research into the yard and find a good yard with trustworthy people everything should be fine.

When I am at the yard I also help care for other liveries and we treat them like royalty! As long as you have a good yard there should be no isssues and it’s a good option.


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## Jellymoon (10 December 2020)

I think it’s a brilliant idea and you should go for it. 

I have mine at home, but have used full livery on occasion for various reasons, and as long as it’s the right yard, it’s fabulous. I prefer it to be yard run by a professional rider who I admire and also trains me, I find you get better care and higher standards. 

You also need one where they pay and treat their staff well, so there’s not a huge turnover of dissatisfied grooms who may not treat your horse well. Even if you have to pay a little more, it will be worth it. Shop around and do lots of research. 

And don’t feel because you are getting a safe cob that it can’t be on a professional yard. The yard I use is run by an event rider, full of some very fancy horses, but also home to a wonderful cob owned by a novice rider. That horse is treated like a king, looks an absolute picture, beautifully schooled, and the grooms all fight over who gets to ride him as he’s safe and comfortable!
They all love him and he gets the biggest stable on the yard.
Also, turnout is important and I would never have a horse in a yard where the policy is to keep them stabled all winter.
Go for it, you won’t regret it, and you may find in time you want to do a bit more yourself, which is also fine. There will always be jealousy as it’s human nature to be envious of people who can afford more than others, but you may find less of this on a yard where they have lots of full liveries.


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## Circe2 (23 December 2020)

I’m another person who would 100% upvote full livery, especially as a new/first time horse owner. My reasoning behind this is that you can easily watch/shadow/ask staff if you’re unsure about how to do something, gauge their opinion of your horse’s behaviour, and get their help with anything you find tricky. Also, full livery shouldn’t at all limit your involvement in the things that matter - I still see my boy 5 times a week normally (a bit less now that I have a sharer, but that’s only because of a physical injury), get to decide what he eats, the turnout he gets (within reason), supplements, when he needs new shoes, attend vet appointments (though not jabs if not needed), and make any other decisions regarding his management. The staff will make suggestions, give me updates on how he’s reacting to any changes, and obviously put what we’ve agreed into practice. They also do really helpful things like laundry (though I still bag it up, label it, text them where the bag is), and haynets/feeding, mucking out, turn in/out, rugging, unless I’m there last in the evening, in which case they leave his bowl out so I can feed, rug and turn him out myself when I’m done. I also muck out whatever he produces when I’m there (throw it in the skip), sweep up after myself and poo pick the arenas after I use them. It works brilliantly and the staff are all great. I find that I’m definitely around him enough to know him, his quirks, if he’s reacting well/badly to any changes, spot any sores or bug bites, notice which horses he gets on with and so on.

 It’s also worked really well during covid lockdowns, when visits were restricted to an hour a day per person - part-liveries and DIYs really struggled with the footfall rules, and sadly many couldn’t afford to temporarily change to full livery. Us full liveries stepped up and helped them with evening/morning rug changes and turnout, updates and so on. It was really lovely to see that level of solidarity.


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