# Emperor - Stag Shot Dead



## Amymay (26 October 2010)

I'm shocked - I thought that there was a 'season' when it came to stag hunting.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-11624253

RIP big fella.

Shame on you who shot him!


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## wipeout (26 October 2010)

I might have missed it in the article but was his head missing? I presume it was as there'd be no point in shooting him otherwise. I guess the head has to be prepared for mounting so there will be people who know about it other than the hunter unless he can prepare it himself.
According to Naturenet the stag season is August 1st to April 30th so no illlegal shooting at this time of year. Doesn't make it right though.


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## Amymay (26 October 2010)

No not illegal - as I said, I'm genuinly shocked that there is no 'season' or at least the rutting season isn't part of it if there is.


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## ladyt25 (26 October 2010)

I saw this on TV this morning. I too thought there was a season for shooting (although i don't agree with it anyway season or not) so I think this is disgusting. He was a licenced hunter as well I believe. I assume the stag was not ill or anything - certainly doesn't appear to look unwell if the pictures shown are of the actual stag shot. I don't understand the mentality of 'trophy hunters' anyway to be honest, I will never understand why people get pleasure from killing anything in the name of 'sport'. Not my idea of fun/sport thanks.


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## Sandstone1 (26 October 2010)

Sad people who kill for fun. Its disgusting. To destroy a lovely creature like that just to hang his head on the wall, pathetic.


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## applecart14 (26 October 2010)

itsmylife said:



			Sad people who kill for fun. Its disgusting. To destroy a lovely creature like that just to hang his head on the wall, pathetic.
		
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I agree, that has brought a tear to my eye.  I remember when I saw 'The Queen' with Helen Mirren.  Same thoughts there tbh.


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## sakura (26 October 2010)

horrible


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## sassybebe (26 October 2010)

I really don't understand why deer are hunted. Foxes i can see the point as they do kill livestock but what exactly is it that deer do to warrant them being shot? Poor thing. I think if i walked into somebodys house and they had a stags head on the wall i'd walk straight out again!


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## skint1 (26 October 2010)

I think culling is a neccessity when you have a large population of deer, and often culling an older deer saves it from a slow death from starvation. However, from what I understand this fella was not anywhere near being in that category so I can only say it is an utter disgrace. Nothing can just be left in peace if there is money to be made from it. RIP Emperor


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## Montyforever (26 October 2010)

As much as i dont like it, deer need to be culled! They have no natural predators and breed like mad!!

I started working last year at a farm that keeps deer, and feel very very privaliged i get to see them up so close, even the stag comes up hoping you have food 
But i swear there must nearly be double as many as when i started in there now


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## Tinkerbee (26 October 2010)

skint1 said:



			I think culling is a neccessity when you have a large population of deer, and often culling an older deer saves it from a slow death from starvation. However, from what I understand this fella was not anywhere near being in that category so I can only say it is an utter disgrace. Nothing can just be left in peace if there is money to be made from it. RIP Emperor
		
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I agree with this. We have real problems with deer around here, and I fully support culling them. However I was brought up to respect animals, even/especially those you hunted, and there is something very callous IMO about killing such a large (healthy? I presume) stag, especially since he was a bit of a celebrity.

Maybe that's me being soft, and a stag is a stag, but there are limits IMO.


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## jsr (26 October 2010)

I understand culling but this was done for a trophy kill. Hope the idiot at the end of the gun is proud of himself cos very few others in the UK are. Disgraceful that someone was allowed to murder such a fabulous creature.


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## Amymay (26 October 2010)

As much as i dont like it, deer need to be culled! They have no natural predators and breed like mad!!
		
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They do indeed.  However, this had nothing to do with a cull.


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## skint1 (26 October 2010)

To me, it kind of symbolises a lot that is wrong with the things our modern society chooses to value, I can't quite explain it...gawd I sound old and grumpy and probably ill informed


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## Montyforever (26 October 2010)

amymay said:



			They do indeed.  However, this had nothing to do with a cull.
		
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I know, i just think its a bit wrong, because hes a "famous" deer people will care. If it was just a normal stag nobody would know/care


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## Tinkerbee (26 October 2010)

montyforever said:



			I know, i just think its a bit wrong, because hes a "famous" deer people will care. If it was just a normal stag nobody would know/care 

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Yes but he was huuuge.  Its not like he went on Big Brother and was famous that way. 

Like that fish (carp?) that was maaassive, and loads of people caught it and were rightly proud, but always put it back... people were angry when it was killed. Although I think that was poisoning or something.


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## WoopsiiD (26 October 2010)

It's like the white stag.
He was shot and killed last year. Lots of people had actually tried to protect him but somebody wanted that head so bad......


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## Spot_the_Risk (26 October 2010)

It seems wrong to kill a healthy stag, they certainly do need to be culled, take the weak or injured or the unthrifty ones though.

We had a white stag near us some years back, it was a well known local secret, and it was wonderful to see him, I even have a few photos, which show that he was a mature animal.  A local website put up 'come and stalk the white deer stag' - he's not been seen since, I expect he was another trophy.  We just have plain fallow and roe now.


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## Montyforever (26 October 2010)

Tinkerbee said:



			Yes but he was huuuge.  Its not like he went on Big Brother and was famous that way. 

Like that fish (carp?) that was maaassive, and loads of people caught it and were rightly proud, but always put it back... people were angry when it was killed. Although I think that was poisoning or something.
		
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Lol! 

Day 6 in the BB house, the big stag is eating grass .. again 

I agree there was no need, but im sure hundreds of healthy stags are killed every year but no big fuss about it


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## Amymay (26 October 2010)

montyforever said:



			I know, i just think its a bit wrong, because hes a "famous" deer people will care. If it was just a normal stag nobody would know/care 

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But is he no less worth than a magnificent Bull Elephant - again killed for just a trophy because of his size and length of tusk?

It's not the killing that is wrong - but the reason.  And if his death highlights a sensless slaughter, then so be it.

And he was famous because he was alleged to be the biggest wild mammal in the UK.

He wasn't part of a cull, or management of an inured animal.


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## Sandstone1 (26 October 2010)

Culling is maybe needed at times but to kill a healthy stag like that just for fun is a disgrace.
It sounds as if they didnt even use him for meat but just took his head and left him. It really is pathetic and has made me very angry. There really is something very wrong with people who kill for the fun of it.


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## Montyforever (26 October 2010)

amymay said:



			But is he no less worth than a magnificent Bull Elephant - again killed for just a trophy because of his size and length of tusk?

It's not the killing that is wrong - but the reason.  And if his death highlights a sensless slaughter, then so be it.

And he was famous because he was alleged to be the biggest wild mammal in the UK.

He wasn't part of a cull, or management of an inured animal.
		
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Im not trying to start an arguement i agree its wrong to just be killed for no good reason! But people do like to just go out and shoot things, so its always going to happen  Especially as its legal.

I absolutly love deer and like i put above get to see them very often on the farm very close which i love, i just dont agree that an extra big deer should be treated any different from the stag on the farm im at for example, if he was killed for a trophy nobody would care!


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## Amymay (26 October 2010)

Im not trying to start an arguement
		
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No, no, I know you're not.  

I was just putting across my thoughts


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## Xlthlx (26 October 2010)

jsr said:



			I understand culling but this was done for a trophy kill. Hope the idiot at the end of the gun is proud of himself cos very few others in the UK are. Disgraceful that someone was allowed to murder such a fabulous creature. 

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You don't actually know that ti was done for a trophy kill that is a supposition although it is likely.  The important thing with deer culling is to cull a correct ration of hinds to stags and also young and old.

The problem with too much trophy killing is that it takes out the wrong animals.  If you have too few stags in their prime and too many hinds then the herd gets weekened and inbred.


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## posie_honey (26 October 2010)

itsmylife said:



			It sounds as if they didnt even use him for meat but just took his head and left him. It really is pathetic and has made me very angry. There really is something very wrong with people who kill for the fun of it.
		
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i very much doube that would ever happen - the rest of the body would go for meat - esp s venision prices are good at the mo - you can't just go leaving a shot animal in the countryside!

ETA - i'm not saying it makes it 'right' btw - i shoot and have just got a rifle for stalking - i have no problem with cull shooting or taking the odd trophy if the balance is kept right as per above post - but it does seem a shame that this one was shot as he was so stunning


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## Xlthlx (26 October 2010)

posie_honey said:



			i very much doube that would ever happen - the rest of the body would go for meat - esp s venision prices are good at the mo - you can't just go leaving a shot animal in the countryside!
		
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People make all sorts of assumptions.  If you read the article they don't know who shot him or why.  There's no suggestion in the news stories that a headless corpse was left.


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## AndySpooner (26 October 2010)

Seems to me that whenever you get a wild animal somewhere thats different, bigger than normal or an unusual colour, there is always some a...hole that wants to kill it.

Whenever you meet someone with a dead animal nailed on the wall they always look a bit pervy.

Strange isn't it?


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## Amymay (26 October 2010)

posie_honey said:



			i very much doube that would ever happen - the rest of the body would go for meat - esp s venision prices are good at the mo - you can't just go leaving a shot animal in the countryside!
		
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But it seems that is exactly what has happened in this instance.


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## posie_honey (26 October 2010)

amymay said:



			But it seems that is exactly what has happened in this instance.
		
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sorry i can't see anything that catagorically states that the body was left?!


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## Xlthlx (26 October 2010)

posie_honey said:



			sorry i can't see anything that catagorically states that the body was left?!
		
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It states that the body was removed so actually the complete opposite!


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## posie_honey (26 October 2010)

Xlthlx said:



			It states that the body was removed so actually the complete opposite!
		
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yup - quoted from the article OP posted:

A witness reported hearing two shots before seeing the stag's body near Rackenford, north Devon. The carcass was removed soon after.

and

The witness who saw the stag's body said they recognised it as being the Exmoor Emperor as it was being taken away.

so where did someone get teh idea that the carcass was left to rot?! it would fetch good money at a game dealer


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## Xlthlx (26 October 2010)

AndySpooner said:



			Seems to me that whenever you get a wild animal somewhere thats different, bigger than normal or an unusual colour, there is always some a...hole that wants to kill it.

Whenever you meet someone with a dead animal nailed on the wall they always look a bit pervy.

Strange isn't it?
		
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My neighbor has a baboon's head on his and I must admit that it is a bit weird but he's never looked at me funny


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## Alec Swan (26 October 2010)

I have a particularly good,  and shootable head on an internal wall of my home, and a visiting friend stared at it for a while,  then walked through the door to look at the wall from the opposite side,  and then said,  with a straight face,  "Bloody hell,  can you imagine the speed that that thing must have been doing,  when he hit the wall"!!

Alec.


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## AndySpooner (26 October 2010)

Alec Swan said:



			I have a particularly good,  and shootable head on an internal wall of my home, and a visiting friend stared at it for a while,  then walked through the door to look at the wall from the opposite side,  and then said,  with a straight face,  "Bloody hell,  can you imagine the speed that that thing must have been doing,  when he hit the wall"!!

Alec.
		
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Old one's are the best, but still funny!!


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## Xlthlx (26 October 2010)

He also has an ashtray made out of some beast from the african plains foot.  I did ask him why he didn't have four


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## millhouse (26 October 2010)

Very sad to learn about the stag.  May he rest in peace.


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## Fantasy_World (26 October 2010)

If the stag was indeed taken as a trophy animal then I wish someone would put a price on the head of the barsteward that took it along with the person or persons that wanted it!


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## ChesnutsRoasting (26 October 2010)

amymay said:



			I'm shocked - I thought that there was a 'season' when it came to stag hunting.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-11624253

RIP big fella.

Shame on you who shot him!
		
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The person responsible is a pathetic dweeb & should have his 'trophies' removed & displayed from a very high wall.


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## Sandstone1 (26 October 2010)

I may have been mistaken but I thought they said on radio that he was shot by a trophy hunter and the body was left.
If this is true or not who ever shot the stag is a sorry excuse for a human being. 
I hope he enjoys looking at the head on his wall, maybe it will make up for being a sad pathetic idiot.


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## Sandstone1 (26 October 2010)

blazingsaddles said:



			The person responsible is a pathetic dweeb & should have his 'trophies' removed & displayed from a very high wall.
		
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Well said and my feelings exactly. In my experience people who kill for fun are very lacking in other areas so I doubt there would be a lot to display.


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## Xlthlx (26 October 2010)

itsmylife said:



			Well said and my feelings exactly. In my experience people who kill for fun are very lacking in other areas so I doubt there would be a lot to display.
		
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Really?  Have you had a lot of such experience?


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## Sandstone1 (26 October 2010)

Yes


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## stencilface (26 October 2010)

I can understand the reasoning for culling deer - as they no longer have natural predators here and otherwise would rampage through the towns (slight exageration?!  ) like the foxes do.

But, culling is supposed to take the weakest, oldest members - just speeding up the process of natural selection really.  Shooting the biggest and strongest makes no sense.

What a d*ck.


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## Xlthlx (26 October 2010)

itsmylife said:



			Yes
		
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LOL!


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## ladyt25 (26 October 2010)

The new reports seem to suggest the body was 'found' - certainly that's what was said on this evening's news. Otherwise, if the hunter had shot it and removed it how would anyone have known the stag had been killed? It certainly seems that the body was found, presumably minus the head.


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## Sandstone1 (26 October 2010)

ladyt25 said:



			The new reports seem to suggest the body was 'found' - certainly that's what was said on this evening's news. Otherwise, if the hunter had shot it and removed it how would anyone have known the stag had been killed? It certainly seems that the body was found, presumably minus the head.
		
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Thats what I heard.


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## Xlthlx (26 October 2010)

ladyt25 said:



			The new reports seem to suggest the body was 'found' - certainly that's what was said on this evening's news. Otherwise, if the hunter had shot it and removed it how would anyone have known the stag had been killed? It certainly seems that the body was found, presumably minus the head.
		
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What it said in the paper was that someone saw the carcass which was then removed.

Have you actually read anywhere about a headless corpse?

If there was a headless corpse I would have thought that the guy would have mentioned that fact.  As it is he said he could not say if it was in fact trophy hunters.

If they had been solely after it for the head and had left the body to rot that would have been highly newsworthy and I'd be very surprised if they didn't pick up on it.


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## AengusOg (26 October 2010)

Xlthlx said:



			My neighbor has a baboon's head on his and I must admit that it is a bit weird but he's never looked at me funny 

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That's gross...he could have got a halloween mask for £1.00 at Tescos.


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## ladyt25 (26 October 2010)

My comment was merely stating what they said on this evening's news. I have not read a paper today no as i have been at work but when I came home and switched on the TV I saw the story about the stag and in the report they said that he was 'found' which suggests there was a body found. Whether that is true or not i do not know but that is what the report said.

Whatever the truth is i still think the shooting of this particular stag or indeed any deer as 'sport' is wrong and I will never understand the mentality of people who enjoy taking part in this type of activity. But that's a whole other post!!


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## gemin1eye (26 October 2010)

Its only a stag. It probably died quickly, presumably without too much suffering and like someone said, plenty of deer are shot every year in culls and this one is no different just because it's a good looking animal. There are far more important things going on in the world.


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## AengusOg (26 October 2010)

ladyt25 said:



			i still think the shooting of this particular stag or indeed any deer as 'sport' is wrong and I will never understand the mentality of people who enjoy taking part in this type of activity. But that's a whole other post!! 

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Why don't you start a thread on this subject? I would be very keen to hear your views on land management; sporting lets/incomes; local employment; local economics; management of wild deer herds; effects of deer numbers on forestry and agriculture; deer culls; the effects of poaching on deer numbers; the role/worth of wildlife crime officers; and 'the mentality of people who enjoy taking part in this type of activity'.


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## Xlthlx (26 October 2010)

I think the whole separation of concerns between 'killing for fun' and 'pest control' and 'wildlife management' is misconstrued often one activity can have aspects of all three and needs to be judged on its merits rather than pigeonholed into one category.

Mind you if 'itsmylife' reckons hunters have small dicks then maybe she should have the last word on the matter!


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## Tiffany (26 October 2010)

News report said he'd died when infact he'd been shot  Some idiot will no doubt be bragging in the local that they shot him - numpty 

RIP lovely lad


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## Sandstone1 (26 October 2010)

Xlthlx said:



			I think the whole separation of concerns between 'killing for fun' and 'pest control' and 'wildlife management' is misconstrued often one activity can have aspects of all three and needs to be judged on its merits rather than pigeonholed into one category.

Mind you if 'itsmylife' reckons hunters have small dicks then maybe she should have the last word on the matter!  

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I except that culling is a fact and is needed at times. killing a healthy stag just to hang his head on the wall is a disgrace.
I have found that people who kill animals for fun do it because they think it is "macho" Thats been my experince any way Thats my opinion, maybe you know differant


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## Xlthlx (26 October 2010)

It's the 'just' that I don't agree with.  Although I have said that I am against too much trophy hunting.

I don't think people should kill just for fun but if there are other valid reasons for the killing  then I don't think there is anything wrong with people enjoying themselves or this being a motivation.

Also I'd rather see deer killed before they get unhealthy than afterwards because the latter would lead to more suffering and disease etc.


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## ChesnutsRoasting (26 October 2010)

Quite right, you can never have too much trophy hunting, that would be absurd. I mean the systematic slaughter of a  species for its horn, skin or head is just not cricket. What era are you living in? Exmoor aint no White Mischief.  Now crawl back to your tent & clean your pith helmet, thats an order.


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## Nickijem (26 October 2010)

Maybe we should bring back deerhounds.  That way it would be more likely to be the weak, sick, old and injured deer that would be hunted.
I don't disagree with deerstalking - I know it brings in a lot to the local economy but I think it is a shame this grand old lad has probably been taken before his time.


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## ladyt25 (26 October 2010)

AengusOg said:



			Why don't you start a thread on this subject? I would be very keen to hear your views on land management; sporting lets/incomes; local employment; local economics; management of wild deer herds; effects of deer numbers on forestry and agriculture; deer culls; the effects of poaching on deer numbers; the role/worth of wildlife crime officers; and 'the mentality of people who enjoy taking part in this type of activity'. 

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Thanks for the suggestion but I do not have the energy - well, not tonight anyway! Lol

At the end of the day, if it wasn't down to man's interefence in the first place we wouldn't need to be culling anything but as a species we like to control everything don't we and that's never going to change. 

I don't think the fact I don't understand the mentality of people who enjoy killing things for 'fun' or 'sport' is particularly strange. It's similar to why I don't understand how people can skin dogs alive so their coats can be used as fashion items, or torture bulls before killing them in the name of 'entertainment', or indeed abuse animals or leave them to suffer unnecessarily. It's not that alien a view I am sure.

Shooting a healthy animal just so you can put its head on your wall to say "hey look what I did" just doesn't do it for me. Shooting an old, injured or sick animal to prevent suffering? Hmm, maybe we should be responsible for that although that's not how it would be in the wild is it. The sick, old, injured would be prey for wolves, lions etc etc. Oh but that's right - we killed the wolves didn't we!!!!!  ;-)


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## snaptie (26 October 2010)

Another good advertisement for the sport!

And cue hunters whining in a few years time saying 'the stock isn't what it used to be'. The blame will be on airplanes, the weather or some person called Sandra wearing the wrong shoes on a Friday etc.  

Guaranteed.

RIP to such a rare notable specimen. No more quality passed on but I'm sure the stuffed head will satisfy the needs of the person who sits and looks at it. And stands and looks at it. Then sits and looks at it. 

Someone should have given them a camera, really.


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## Xlthlx (26 October 2010)

snaptie said:



			And cue hunters whining in a few years time saying 'the stock isn't what it used to be'. The blame will be on airplanes, the weather or some person called Sandra wearing the wrong shoes on a Friday etc.  

Guaranteed.
		
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Well actually people have been 'whining' about this kind of thing becoming more commonplace for quite some time.

EPNA submission to the Burns Enquiry:

7.8    Management by people is essential to maintaining the herd, and traditionally a mixture of hunting and shooting has achieved this. The relationship between the deer, the hunt and those who manage the land is complex and the key to the continued success in maintaining the fine herd of red deer. Should legislation be introduced to ban hunting with hounds, it is essential that adequate arrangements are in place to ensure the continued conservation and management of the red deer herds on Exmoor. Measures will also have to be taken to address any adverse effects on the social and economic well-being of Exmoors rural community.

http://www.exmoor-nationalpark.gov.uk/enpa_hunting_statement


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## YorksG (27 October 2010)

The stag was reported to be 12 years old, so presumably there have been many crops of fawns from him, therefore the genes of this animal have been passed to the herd. If the meat has been used, can anyone tell me the difference between shooting deer and using the venison and shooting rabbits, as a means of pest control and for the pot?


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## blackstar (27 October 2010)

I will never understand how anyone can derive enjoyment from destroying a beautiful creature  like this.


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## snaptie (27 October 2010)

A lot of anger against, some people defending the actions of an anonymous hunter. 

Both have fair points. What puzzles me is the fact he or she couldn't hold on for month or so to let him pass on his line one more time. Despite the rut only starting, strangely enough they decided he 'had' to be killed several days after he was pictured in a paper, co-incidentally. Plenty of months before to cull him, it would make far more sense, but no. 

Why?


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## snaptie (27 October 2010)

yorksG said:



			The stag was reported to be 12 years old, so presumably there have been many crops of fawns from him, therefore the genes of this animal have been passed to the herd. If the meat has been used, can anyone tell me the difference between shooting deer and using the venison and shooting rabbits, as a means of pest control and for the pot?
		
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I think you've answered your own question. Who actively kills a twelve year old deer for their meat? Is it even edible? Please, I'm an amateur and would really like to know.

Pfft.


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## EAST KENT (27 October 2010)

montyforever said:



			Im not trying to start an arguement i agree its wrong to just be killed for no good reason! But people do like to just go out and shoot things, so its always going to happen  Especially as its legal.

I absolutly love deer and like i put above get to see them very often on the farm very close which i love, i just dont agree that an extra big deer should be treated any different from the stag on the farm im at for example, if he was killed for a trophy nobody would care!
		
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If you go to Challock Forest,between Ashford and Faversham,at this time of year MF  it is possible if you are savvy to creep up on wild fallow ...in there are sometimes pure white males.

  They are so preoccupied right now it is ,with the wind direction right,to get up within 25 yards of them. fantastic animals.


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## Montyforever (27 October 2010)

EAST KENT said:



			If you go to Challock Forest,between Ashford and Faversham,at this time of year MF  it is possible if you are savvy to creep up on wild fallow ...in there are sometimes pure white males.

  They are so preoccupied right now it is ,with the wind direction right,to get up within 25 yards of them. fantastic animals.
		
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Ah i'll have to go up there at some point 
Would love to see them in the wild, the ones on the farm are captive not sure why?? Could be meat im not sure but its only a small herd but they are very friendly. Ive not seen any fawns though, what time of year are they normally born?

Some of the ones on the farm ..

















(Rubbish pics but you get the idea )


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## Xlthlx (27 October 2010)

I fond it ironic that LACS are making mileage out of this story.  There methods of deer management leave something to be desired.  Letting them get so overcrowded that they become riddled with worms and TB.  Letting deer drop dead after choking their lungs out from lungworm is hardly welfare friendly.

Dead deer on the LACS sanctuary:


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## Xlthlx (27 October 2010)

And at least the emperor has presumably ended up in a freezer.  This is one of two concrete bunker where they stored corpses prior to disposal:


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## ChesnutsRoasting (27 October 2010)

What the LACS & the Countryside Alliance opinions are on this killing is irrelevant.  The simple fact is that some knobcheese - either for financial gain or notoriety or both, has killed a magnificent animal, probably to order, so that some antiquated old fart can display its head on his mock Tudor mansion wall.


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## Xlthlx (27 October 2010)

or maybe not lol http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...sighting-beast-village.html?ito=feeds-newsxml


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## Alec Swan (3 November 2010)

Two different stags.

Alec.


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