# Larger rider on on lightweight horse. Picture inc



## ejwhitmore (23 June 2014)

Hi everyone, 

I know a person (not naming and shaming) She is around 15/16 stone and has brought a lightweight cob. She had a thoroughbred before. If anyone could say if you recon she is too overweight for her horse that would be great. Thanks in advance.


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## RunToEarth (23 June 2014)

Posting photos of overweight people on open forums generally goes down like a turd sandwich so if you are genuinely concerned why not go and help her, instead of posting about it on the internet.


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## SpringArising (23 June 2014)

ejwhitmore said:



			Hi everyone, 

I know a person (not naming and shaming) She is around 15/16 stone and has brought a lightweight cob. She had a thoroughbred before. If anyone could say if you recon she is too overweight for her horse that would be great. Thanks in advance.
		
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Can't see any pictures?

The question is a bit vague. How big is the Cob she bought? How much bone does it have? Is she a kind rider?


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## _Annie_ (23 June 2014)

RunToEarth said:



			Posting photos of overweight people on open forums generally goes down like a turd sandwich so if you are genuinely concerned why not go and help her, instead of posting about it on the internet.
		
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^This.


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## Floxie (23 June 2014)

Nicely said, RunToEarth


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## delaneys (23 June 2014)

How nasty!


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## delaneys (23 June 2014)

CasinoThePalomino said:



			She probably is, sighhhh.

Everyone is too quick to defend larger riders.

Get a new hobby, ride a bike for awhile - then come back to horses.

Makes for a happier horse and rider 

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If the horse is happy and healthy then why not??
I'm sure your friend is fine for her horse!


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## The Fuzzy Furry (23 June 2014)

CasinoThePalomino said:



			She probably is, sighhhh.

Everyone is too quick to defend larger riders.

Get a new hobby, ride a bike for awhile - then come back to horses.

Makes for a happier horse and rider 

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Perhaps you should find another forum to post on about your hobby of denigrating people who are not the perfect size?


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## smellsofhorse (23 June 2014)

I have pushed the button.

I hope this post gets renivee and you get banned, or at least a warning.

If you are genuinely concerned talk to the person involved.

Don't speculate and insult people that arnt size 0.


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## Sukistokes2 (23 June 2014)

CasinoThePalomino said:



			She probably is, sighhhh.

Everyone is too quick to defend larger riders.

Get a new hobby, ride a bike for awhile - then come back to horses.

Makes for a happier horse and rider 

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Aaaah the fat buster rears her ugly face again........why don't you go find anther forum , one where they except vile people.


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## Fides (23 June 2014)

smellsofhorse said:



			I have pushed the button.

I hope this post gets renivee and you get banned, or at least a warning.

If you are genuinely concerned talk to the person involved.

Don't speculate and insult people that arnt size 0.
		
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That's a bit harsh - she is concerned for the horse 

Fwiw - I stopped riding my mare for 6 months after I was appalled to find I had put nearly 2 stones on. There's lots of talk about ill fitting tack and the damage it can do but a heavy rider can be just as bad


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## MerrySherryRider (23 June 2014)

Why has weight become a topic we cannot discuss ? It can be a welfare issue, therefore sensible debate seems fair enough. 
My view is the horse comes first. With obesity becoming a major health problem in the UK, it's something that affects horse's well being.


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## Moomin1 (23 June 2014)

RunToEarth said:



			Posting photos of overweight people on open forums generally goes down like a turd sandwich so if you are genuinely concerned why not go and help her, instead of posting about it on the internet.
		
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How do you help an overweight rider though?

Personally I don't get why it's such an issue to discuss weight of riders...I'm sorry but it really is a welfare issue, and if that offends some people then so be it.


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## gembear (23 June 2014)

MerrySherryRider said:



			Why has weight become a topic we cannot discuss ? It can be a welfare issue, therefore sensible debate seems fair enough. 
My view is the horse comes first. With obesity becoming a major health problem in the UK, it's something that affects horse's well being.
		
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Same as some people think its perfectly fine to have digs at skinny folk but not to anyone who is overweight.

Now, I don't believe it's fair to make comments unnecessarily on either (welfare issues, then yes if fair and in context) but as someone who's always been small and slim i regularly get "oh look at you, skinny thing" "do you ever eat?" if I refuse a cake/biscuit/whatever "oh have some, you could do with more than one!" "i'd have thought you' have been fitter for a skinny person" the list could go on.....

Yet people seem to think this is perfectly fine, but they would never say to someone who is overweight "don't eat that cake, you're too fat".

Get what I mean?

Sorry a bit off topic i guess.


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## Moomin1 (23 June 2014)

gembear said:



			Same as some people think its perfectly fine to have digs at skinny folk but not to anyone who is overweight.

Now, I don't believe it's fair to make comments unnecessarily on either (welfare issues, then yes if fair and in context) but as someone who's always been small and slim i regularly get "oh look at you, skinny thing" "do you ever eat?" if I refuse a cake/biscuit/whatever "oh have some, you could do with more than one!" "i'd have thought you' have been fitter for a skinny person" the list could go on.....

Yet people seem to think this is perfectly fine, but they would never say to someone who is overweight "don't eat that cake, you're too fat".

Get what I mean?

Sorry a bit off topic i guess.
		
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There's no comparison there though.  Being too skinny doesn't have any welfare implications for the horse.


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## Dunlin (23 June 2014)

I agree with the sentiment about how we should be able to discuss rider weight, despite being a good load carrier I don't want to ride my friends New Forest who is 14.2 as I am 10stone 8lbs and wouldn't feel happy about that at all even if people say "that's fine". I would be happy to post that on here and ask for opinions but I already have my own and have gone with it, but in this case no good was going to come out of it being asked about someone else. What was the OP going to do, walk up to the lady in question and say "hey, I posted on H&H about you being too heavy to ride and they all agreed with me and say you're fat and cruel", asking on here about opinions of someone else was never going to end well or be helpful and posting up a photograph without this persons permission is pretty spiteful/stupid in my opinion.


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## daughter's groom (23 June 2014)

Whatever the answer to this problem is, surely it isn't right to post pictures on a public forum.  There must be a more sensitive way. The braver option would be to approach the person with your concerns.


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## gembear (23 June 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			There's no comparison there though.  Being too skinny doesn't have any welfare implications for the horse.
		
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As i said, I kinda went off topic and by the end was talking about weight irrespective of a horse.
It was more in response to the taboo of talking about weight.

EDIT
Although tbh if you are small and skinny, you probably wouldn't fair as well on a 17.3 beasty as someone who was a bit bigger. I know personally, I find it harder to wrap my legs around and really work with the horse. Some smaller folk may though.


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## Crabby (23 June 2014)

Oh goody.. A weight 'discussion'


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## MerrySherryRider (23 June 2014)

I didn't see a picture so perhaps it was edited ? I do think its fair to talk about the welfare implications of rider's weight though.


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## cptrayes (23 June 2014)

MerrySherryRider said:



			Why has weight become a topic we cannot discuss ? It can be a welfare issue, therefore sensible debate seems fair enough. 
My view is the horse comes first. With obesity becoming a major health problem in the UK, it's something that affects horse's well being.
		
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Moomin1 said:



			How do you help an overweight rider though?

Personally I don't get why it's such an issue to discuss weight of riders...I'm sorry but it really is a welfare issue, and if that offends some people then so be it.
		
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With you both.


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## MaisieMcPherson92 (23 June 2014)

I do agree, that big post about that rider on the skinny TB had some interesting points but it was out of order. 

It doesn't seem like anyone can talk about heavier riders without getting defensive.


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## mandwhy (23 June 2014)

Depends what you mean by lightweight cob. I have a Haflinger and she can carry 16st happily although I am not quite that heavy. She is not a heavy draft type but is very wide in the barrel and naturally muscular, she is probably a similar build to some lightweight cobs hence why I think it might be similar. 

Hard to judge really and I don't think anyone should post pics of someone without their say so. Discussing without identifying is just another topic in my eyes as long as it doesn't get personal, sometimes I have felt a little paranoid reading things but hey ho, I think it is easy for a 9st person to imagine that someone weighing 15st must be overweight and therefore unfit, therefore not athletically able to be a good rider, which most of us know is possible but not always true.


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## Sukistokes2 (23 June 2014)

Why is any ones weight anyone elses issue. If you , op, have a concern then go and speak to theperson concerned. If you are that concerned about it being a welfare issue report it. I am sure that all those charities would gladly leave all the fields full of lice ridden, half starved,  over bred, neglected horses to chase up your concern. 
Thse sorts of discussions are unproductive, they end up being a slagging match.


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## gembear (23 June 2014)

Sukistokes2 said:



			Why is any ones weight anyone elses issue. If you , op, have a concern then go and speak to theperson concerned. If you are that concerned about it being a welfare issue report it. I am sure that all those charities would gladly leave all the fields full of lice ridden, half starved,  over bred, neglected horses to chase up your concern. 
Thse sorts of discussions are unproductive, they end up being a slagging match.
		
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tbf you're the one turning into a slagging match with that comment. people have offered fair advice and mentioned it's not really right with regards to posting the picture.
no-one else had sad anything bad IMO - you're making a big deal out of it, and that's the point a few of us have made.


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## Elf On A Shelf (23 June 2014)

As I sat watching the Welsh C's at the Highland Show the other day the call to Canter on rung out and this wee Welshie promptly buggered off! Said pony did a lap of the ring full pelt - ears pricked having a ball. The stewards calls everyone to a halt and this wee pony is still going. 2 and half laps of the ring and aiming towards the judges later the pony stops. Why is this relevant or funny? The older teenage/early twenty year old lad that was riding him must have been 14-15stone. 

Not really relevant to the topic but I just thought it was funny. Fair play that pony!


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## Moomin1 (23 June 2014)

Sukistokes2 said:



			Why is any ones weight anyone elses issue. If you , op, have a concern then go and speak to theperson concerned. If you are that concerned about it being a welfare issue report it. I am sure that all those charities would gladly leave all the fields full of lice ridden, half starved,  over bred, neglected horses to chase up your concern. 
Thse sorts of discussions are unproductive, they end up being a slagging match.
		
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Actually, overweight riders are just as much of a welfare concern as those others you mention.


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## risky business (23 June 2014)

I have to say going slightly off horse topics.

I do find people are fine calling me skinny or assuming I don't eat and how extremely tiny I am is acceptable. But if I approached a larger person saying how big they were, they eat to much and how large they were they'd be deeply upset. It works both ways in my opinion I get sick of people pointing my weight out. 

In regards to horses and being to heavy is an issue. However I feel this thread was only started to cause a reaction rather than a productive conversation.


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## Marchogaeth (23 June 2014)

Why can't we talk about the weight of rider. Provided there are no names mentioned and perhaps a photo is a bit to personal. Why should weight be something we have to sweep under the carpet, never speak of or discuss!? 
The simple fact of the matter is there are a lot if people out there who are too heavy for their horse, I'm sure most of us can think of someone! ...and frankly comments like "how nasty" aren't in any way helpful!
I mean if you think there may be reason for concern regarding the welfare if a horse then why shouldn't you be allowed to ask other peoples opinions/advice?! 
This sort of thing will put people off posting on here more often!! What's the point in making someone feel inferior or belittling them? Is calling someone 'nasty' for showing concern not as bad as, if not worse than calling someone to big for there horse... 
I agree the post could be worded differently but there is really no need for these reactions.


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## Mike007 (23 June 2014)

Arnt the words cob and lightweight horse rather contradictory? I just love these good old HHO bitch fests. I wonder how many who leap in to criticize heavier riders have any understanding of the mechanics of weight carrying ! For example ,riding bareback, (or how to ruin your horses back in one easy step!) Load per square inch, Load as a percentage of equine body weight, and when was the last time you saw someone out hunting ,get off and unsaddle for a few minutes? There are many things that seem to be overlooked yet have a much greater effect on the horses wellbeing.


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## CBAnglo (24 June 2014)

MaisieMcPherson92 said:



			It doesn't seem like anyone can talk about heavier riders without getting defensive.
		
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I agree.  Two years ago I got a little 14.2hh (then 13.3hh) Connemara and I was way too heavy to do all the things I wanted to do with him such as xc etc so I lost 3 stone.  I had actually let the weight creep up over the prior 18 months due to a combination of working late every night and eating a lot of katsu curry (wagamamas is the devil!). I felt so much better about myself and so did pony.  I would have been mortified if people thought I was too big or posted about it on a forum.

The real test for me was that I actually asked people what they thought; on my other two (15hh chunky cb/TB and 15.2hh TB ) I thought I was fine and didn't question it but on a little 4 yr old 13.3hh I did not feel comfortable despite everyone saying it was fine).


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## MerrySherryRider (24 June 2014)

Mike007 said:



			Arnt the words cob and lightweight horse rather contradictory? I just love these good old HHO bitch fests. I wonder how many who leap in to criticize heavier riders have any understanding of the mechanics of weight carrying ! For example ,riding bareback, (or how to ruin your horses back in one easy step!) Load per square inch, Load as a percentage of equine body weight, and when was the last time you saw someone out hunting ,get off and unsaddle for a few minutes? There are many things that seem to be overlooked yet have a much greater effect on the horses wellbeing.
		
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What you say is true, but an obese person is still putting too heavy a load on the horse. If you watch a horse being ridden by a rider of average weight and then by an obese rider, there's quite a difference in how the horse moves. 
 It seems that it'd be common sense for people to say, that they need to lose 4, 5, 6 stone before they ride, but not infrequently, they don't. 

I'm not talking about people who need to lose a stone or so, it's the seriously big riders who should stop and think about the stress on the horse's back and joints. 

It does make me cross.


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## Sukistokes2 (24 June 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			Actually, overweight riders are just as much of a welfare concern as those others you mention.
		
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Really!

I just think that some people just have problems with larger people or people who are diferent from them,
we are discussing an issue based on some persons view on the world, without the person who is involved even knowing about it. Does that not strike you as wrong. 
We could be discussing whether skinny people should ride big horses. 
Welfare issues aside this forum should be used for the power of good not for fattie bashing, or for taking the piss out of anyone, It demeans us all.


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## Greylegs (24 June 2014)

FWIW, I've just read this thread and wanted to mention that I do know a girl who has recently been told by her vet that she's too heavy for her horse! She's lovely, I like her a lot, she's a very good and capable rider, her horse is a gorgeous little cob, but there's no denying she needs to get some weight off for the sake of her own health and her horse's well being. This isn't "fatty bashing" as some have called it, it's a simple statement of the facts of the matter. 

Coming from a trusted professional who was prepared to be frank with her for the sake of her horses welfare, she took it on the chin and is taking action to get herself down to a more acceptable weight. Had I decided to "offer some friendly advice" on the matter, I'd probably have caused a great deal of offence. 

So how do you approach this topic with someone, where you feel there is a genuine welfare issue? It's a tough topic to raise in casual conversation!


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## LadyRascasse (24 June 2014)

I am size 8 and I hate all this weight talk, I hate people picking on my weight so I can imagine what it's like if you are overweight. Sometimes you can't help being the weight you are, and openly picking on people just isn't on. Yes some people are too big for there horse but it's not your prerogative to tell people if they can or can't ride based on there weight!!


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## minkymoo (24 June 2014)

In 2011 I bought an 8mo colt, I got him in the August and in the November I fell pregnant.

I put 3 stone on! He was 3 this January, and I had a chat with my yo about my weight, she said I should aim for 10st before I could ride him. She was absolutely right to do so. There was no way I could get on a little newly backed 15.2 (ish) 3yo at 13 st. 

So, I went on a diet and worked my butt off to shift the weight, and I did, I'm now about 10.3st and I've started riding him. I'm so proud of myself and what I've achieved. It was the best motivator ever.

Of course it's a delicate subject, but it's also an important one for the welfare of the horse as well as that of  the rider.


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## maisie06 (24 June 2014)

I have more or less given up riding due to my weight issues. I have tried everything and am still fat. I have accepted riding isn't really for me, so I groom for and help out a friend instead.


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## _HP_ (24 June 2014)

When the rider is on the heavier side I would say that it depends a lot on the conformation of the horse, the work being asked and the riders ability.
I am heavier than I should be but would have no problem getting on most horses/ ponies for a short hack/ schooling session because I am a balanced, sympathetic rider. 
Many fit healthy men are around 15/16 stone ....should they not ride?
Weight is such a weird one....most people would not guess my weight from just looking at me. They usually put me at least a stone lighter.


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## RunToEarth (24 June 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			How do you help an overweight rider though?

Personally I don't get why it's such an issue to discuss weight of riders...I'm sorry but it really is a welfare issue, and if that offends some people then so be it.
		
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I have no issue with anyone discussing the weight of a rider - and I feel quite strongly about overweight riders. However, it is not acceptable for someone to post a photo of said woman on a horse on an open section of the forum for strangers to critique - that is cruel, and most certainly a form of bullying, which I don't like.


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## Auslander (24 June 2014)

RunToEarth said:



			I have no issue with anyone discussing the weight of a rider - and I feel quite strongly about overweight riders. However, it is not acceptable for someone to post a photo of said woman on a horse on an open section of the forum for strangers to critique - that is cruel, and most certainly a form of bullying, which I don't like.
		
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This exactly. I'm no lightweight, and I'm very careful about what I ride. I'm very happy that Alf will carry me happily (he has no qualms about bucking people off the moment they get on if he doesn't want them up there - and he chooses not to buck with me) - he's 17.1hh, part draft, and very muscular. I wouldn't ride Spike - who is 16.1hh, and, for a warmblood, quite fine. He's also old, unfit, and a bit creaky. If you are aware of your weight, take care to ride in a balanced fashion at all times (no "relaxing" out on a hack), and ensure that the horse you ride is up to weight and fit, then i think its ok to ride, but if you are large, unbalanced, unfit and unaware, then you should be in the gym, not on a horse!

I'm brave enough to take a roasting - but I believe this pic shows a happy comfortable horse, and a balanced rider doing her best to support some of her own weight. Charles de Kunffy isn't averse to larger riders - he made a very telling statement about horses being equipped to carry weight, but not burden. I try very hard not to be a burden.


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## fattylumpkin (24 June 2014)

RunToEarth said:



			I have no issue with anyone discussing the weight of a rider - and I feel quite strongly about overweight riders. However, it is not acceptable for someone to post a photo of said woman on a horse on an open section of the forum for strangers to critique - that is cruel, and most certainly a form of bullying, which I don't like.
		
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Well said


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## thewonderhorse (24 June 2014)

Fides said:



			That's a bit harsh - she is concerned for the horse 

Fwiw - I stopped riding my mare for 6 months after I was appalled to find I had put nearly 2 stones on. There's lots of talk about ill fitting tack and the damage it can do but a heavy rider can be just as bad 

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I agree completely. Nobody is saying that you have to be a size 0 but it is a welfare issue if the rider is too heavy for a horse. 

We would all comment on a picture on DD if there was a horse with a larger rider on it.

I certainly wont be riding my lad until my baby is born and I have got back down to my pre pregnancy weight


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## RunToEarth (24 June 2014)

thewonderhorse said:



			I agree completely. Nobody is saying that you have to be a size 0 but it is a welfare issue if the rider is too heavy for a horse. 

We would all comment on a picture on DD if there was a horse with a larger rider on it.

I certainly wont be riding my lad until my baby is born and I have got back down to my pre pregnancy weight 

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That is completely different - the OP posted a photo she had quite evidently taken of someone and then posted it on an open forum presumably without permission. I would assume the person selling the horse on DD has uploaded the photo themselves. 

Weight for riding is a contentious issue and I appreciate it does attract debate, which is no bad thing, and of course the welfare of the horse is paramount. When irks me sometimes are the people have such extreme views on the subject that it provokes people to have to "justify" anything over 9 stone on a horse. I know there are a lot of idiots in the horse world but honestly getting the weight ratio right isn't an exact science, and is largely based on common sense, which I appreciate isn't common. Auslander, lovely happy boy  

I welcome debate and had you come on here posting a photo of yourself and asking for opinions I wouldn't be quite so concerned at the comments, but the OP posted a photo of someone else.


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## Clodagh (24 June 2014)

Auslander, you and your horse look great. RTE - I agree with all you say. 
As someone has said, most men would weigh 15 stone, if they were over 6', is it a problem them riding? My son is 6'5" and muscular, he rows. He rides my 17hh ID x tb and I am fine with that. He would have to weigh 15/16 stone.


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## thewonderhorse (24 June 2014)

Auslander said:



			This exactly. I'm no lightweight, and I'm very careful about what I ride. I'm very happy that Alf will carry me happily (he has no qualms about bucking people off the moment they get on if he doesn't want them up there - and he chooses not to buck with me) - he's 17.1hh, part draft, and very muscular. I wouldn't ride Spike - who is 16.1hh, and, for a warmblood, quite fine. He's also old, unfit, and a bit creaky. If you are aware of your weight, take care to ride in a balanced fashion at all times (no "relaxing" out on a hack), and ensure that the horse you ride is up to weight and fit, then i think its ok to ride, but if you are large, unbalanced, unfit and unaware, then you should be in the gym, not on a horse!

I'm brave enough to take a roasting - but I believe this pic shows a happy comfortable horse, and a balanced rider doing her best to support some of her own weight. Charles de Kunffy isn't averse to larger riders - he made a very telling statement about horses being equipped to carry weight, but not burden. I try very hard not to be a burden.






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You look great on him.


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## Auslander (24 June 2014)

thewonderhorse said:



			You look great on him.
		
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i'd say I don't look awful on him, but I would look better a stone or two lighter. I'm happy that I'm helping him out as best i can, but I'm working on making the overall picture a bit prettier! I'd also love to be able to ride Spike - sat on him once for 5 mins, and he is LOVELY!


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## Daytona (24 June 2014)

You should be able to discuss weight without being shot down its a important factor , horses just can't carry no end of weight they have limits , limits to which will keep them happy and healthy

I have a 16hh WB mare who I'm on the larger height size for at 5ft10 I'm currently pregnant and dying to get back on board after baby born but I won't untill I lose at least 2stone of my baby weight as it would not be fair on the mare to get on her while being that weight

I know I'd be too heavy for her , ignorance is not bliss

If your over weight for what ever reason on a particular horse you should do the decent thing and stop riding the animal untill you lose the weight. 

I think most people deep down would know if there too heavy or not for there horse.


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## cptrayes (24 June 2014)

_HP_ said:



			Many fit healthy men are around 15/16 stone ....should they not ride?
		
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This discussion is about the weight of the rider relative to the horse. The gender of the rider is absolutely totally irrelevant.


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## Pigeon (24 June 2014)

Also, equine science people - done 'bone' (as in cob versus arab) actually make a difference to the horses weight carrying abilities? Or has it more to do with 'bone density' and the strength of the horse's back?

I imagine the horse's fitness comes into it as well.


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## PaddyMonty (24 June 2014)

two points
1) OP did not in fact post a pic despite the thread title.
2) It might be worth looking the the research links posted by blurr on this thread and the analysis I did on my horse
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?669213-Genuine-weight-question


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## SatansLittleHelper (24 June 2014)

I'm just shy of 15 stone...however I'm also just shy of 6ft tall. Anything under approx 12 stone makes me look and feel awful. I have just bought a bike to try to shift at least a stone before my Friesian x WB is finished being schooled....I have around 8 weeks. I'm then hoping to lose another 2 stone before next year when he starts doing proper work.
I feel this is realistic for me and I definitely need to lose at least a stone before I ride him. 
But if you saw me I look nothing like that weight.


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## Embo (24 June 2014)

_HP_ said:



			Many fit healthy men are around 15/16 stone ....should they not ride?
		
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This is a _very_ good point. My OH & I weigh pretty much the same, give or take a few lbs. I am 5'6'' and overweight. He is 6'2'' and slim. 

If we were to take a photo of each of us on the same horse, I would probably look much worse because I'm fatter. He would look fine because he is slim. But the horse would be carrying the same weight.

A lot of it is subjective. Unless you know all the facts (ie, true weight of the rider - not just a guess - vs size, weight, fitness etc of the horse and activities undertaken etc) I don't think it's really fair to say someone should or should not ride based on their weight alone.

Having said that, I do believe seriously overweight riders is becoming an issue.


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## Prince33Sp4rkle (24 June 2014)

i absolutely dont agree with posting pictures of anyone except yourself on a forum to ask for a weight critique.
however, weight can be an issue.
yes many very tall, muscular people of both sexes can easily weight around 13/14 stone with some very tall men weighing more.
however, its how that weight is distributed and how in control of it the rider is, and if the saddle and horse are appropriate that makes or breaks it for the horse.

i have zero problems with for eg a strong,sound, weight carrying horse working under an athletic 15 stone bloke in control of his own body, able to balance easily and minimise stress on the horse.someone who is cardio fit as well as toned will not hinder the horse at any stage.

what i completely object to is someone who is basically obese by nature of their weight/height ratio, so completely un-balanced, un-able to sit properly because of the bulk of fat under their thigh and around their middle, riding in a too small saddle on either a too small, too lightweight, or weak backed horse. that shape of rider is rarely in control of their own mass and is far far harder for the horse to carry.
their is no ways someone classed as obese can either be cardio fit or toned in any way and as soon as they run out puff they are going to be a dead weight on the horse.


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## Pigeon (24 June 2014)

Embo said:



			This is a _very_ good point. My OH & I weigh pretty much the same, give or take a few lbs. I am 5'6'' and overweight. He is 6'2'' and slim. 

If we were to take a photo of each of us on the same horse, I would probably look much worse because I'm fatter. He would look fine because he is slim. But the horse would be carrying the same weight.

A lot of it is subjective. Unless you know all the facts (ie, true weight of the rider - not just a guess - vs size, weight, fitness etc of the horse and activities undertaken etc) I don't think it's really fair to say someone should or should not ride based on their weight alone.

Having said that, I do believe seriously overweight riders is becoming an issue.
		
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I don't think how people look is the issue at all. The point is - the horse is carrying the same weight, regardless of if the rider is male or female.

Also riders that carry their own weight is a myth - get on the scales and try carrying your own weight, does it make a difference to the number? I know that a rider that hinders the horse or thumps down on the horse's back can be bad for them, but I wouldn't let one of those on board, just as I wouldn't let someone too heavy ride! 

Horses do have weight limits, even if people don't want to hear it. 

I will admit that they can carry more weight than you would at first think, but again I think fitness and breeding for strength (look at cowboys on quarter horses) is very important in that respect. A horse that hollows is obviously going to suffer more under a rider that's too heavy for it, than a horse who can lift through it's back.


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## Embo (24 June 2014)

Pigeon said:



			I don't think how people look is the issue at all. The point is - the horse is carrying the same weight, regardless of if the rider is male or female.
		
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Of course, you're right, but it's not the point I was trying to make. People get into a flap and slate a fat person they see in a photo (or know of personally, see hacking out or at a show - whatever) with no knowledge of anything about the person or the horse, for being too heavy. 

I suppose what I was trying to say is that just because a person looks slim, doesn't mean they are light and equally, a fatter person may not be as heavy as one might perceive them to be. Me & OH were the example, not specifically due to male/female comparison, but because I don't happen to know a female who is taller but the same weight as me!

Everything you've said, I agree with. It is a problem.


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## RunToEarth (24 June 2014)

PaddyMonty said:



			two points
1) OP did not in fact post a pic despite the thread title.
2) It might be worth looking the the research links posted by blurr on this thread and the analysis I did on my horse
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?669213-Genuine-weight-question

Click to expand...

This post was started including a picture - whether admin or the OP removed it I am not sure, however there was a photo on the thread to begin with, hence my first reply.


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## Auslander (24 June 2014)

Pigeon said:



			I don't think how people look is the issue at all. The point is - the horse is carrying the same weight, regardless of if the rider is male or female.

Also riders that carry their own weight is a myth - get on the scales and try carrying your own weight, does it make a difference to the number? I know that a rider that thumps down on the horse's back can be bad for them, but I wouldn't let one of those on board, just as I wouldn't let someone too heavy ride!
		
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Agree that the horse is carrying the same weight, whether the rider is balanced or not, but going back to what Charles De Kunffy said - there is a difference between weight and burden. A balanced rider does weigh the same as an unbalanced one, but their ability to carry themselves, stay in balance, and move with the horse will make them less onerous to carry, than someone who isn't truly "with" the horse. I'm not saying this to justify my own considerable weight, but because it's very clear to me, from years of teaching/observing, that horses find it easier to perform under a good, but heavy rider, than they do under someone of the same weight (and often less), who isn't fit enough to support themselves, sits heavy, doesn't go with the horse, and thumps around on its back. 

My son is 6"0 and built like a brick outhouse, and I can (just) give him a piggy back (although, I can't cope with him mounting from the ground, which backs up my thing about always using a mounting block!). If he sits there making no effort to support himself, I can't move with him on my back. If he sits tall and uses his core to hold himself, I can move under him. He feels different when he's making an effort to carry himself - still heavy, but easier to carry. i know this because I just carried out an experiment. I may have given myself a hernia though...


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## *hic* (24 June 2014)

^^^ which is of course why the term "deadweight" appeared in the English language.


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## xTrooperx (24 June 2014)

It is because of these sort of threads I feel guilty and limit my riding even though I have a heavy weight cob (10 inch) and I weigh under 13stone but I look bigger I don't even have a saddle as that would add a extra whole stone on. I've already been told my cob can't go hunting/fast rides because I'm too heavy. 
I also have two other horses one a light weight & other a heavy cob but shorter which I won't be able to ride and be kept as companions/driving as I know I'll get shamed & comments on my weight, yet I've manged to lose 4/5st so I can ride again, but it's never enough :0?


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## JFTDWS (24 June 2014)

Auslander said:



			Charles de Kunffy isn't averse to larger riders - he made a very telling statement about horses being equipped to carry weight, but not burden. I try very hard not to be a burden.
		
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He does come out with some cracking sound bites.  I love listening to him teaching and talking about training.


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## Auslander (24 June 2014)

xTrooperx said:



			It is because of these sort of threads I feel guilty and limit my riding even though I have a heavy weight cob (10 inch) and I weigh under 13stone but I look bigger I don't even have a saddle as that would add a extra whole stone on. I've already been told my cob can't go hunting/fast rides because I'm too heavy. 
I also have two other horses one a light weight & other a heavy cob but shorter which I won't be able to ride and be kept as companions/driving as I know I'll get shamed & comments on my weight, yet I've manged to lose 4/5st so I can ride again, but it's never enough :0?
		
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A healthy, heavyweight cob should have no trouble carrying you, even on fast rides/out hunting. Whoever told you you were too heavy was being pretty unfair.


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## Auslander (24 June 2014)

JFTD said:



			He does come out with some cracking sound bites.  I love listening to him teaching and talking about training.
		
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Ditto. I spend ages watching his vids!


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## JFTDWS (24 June 2014)

Auslander said:



			Ditto. I spend ages watching his vids!
		
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I think he's doing clinics in Oxford in a couple of weeks, isn't he?

I've just read your comment about piggy backs.  I love that you felt the need to experiment with your theory and like all good scientists are now paying the price


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## Fides (24 June 2014)

xTrooperx said:



			It is because of these sort of threads I feel guilty and limit my riding even though I have a heavy weight cob (10 inch) and I weigh under 13stone but I look bigger I don't even have a saddle as that would add a extra whole stone on. I've already been told my cob can't go hunting/fast rides because I'm too heavy. 
I also have two other horses one a light weight & other a heavy cob but shorter which I won't be able to ride and be kept as companions/driving as I know I'll get shamed & comments on my weight, yet I've manged to lose 4/5st so I can ride again, but it's never enough :0?
		
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You should be fine for a heavyweight cob  incidentally though you would be better riding with a saddle than without as it distributes the weight over a larger are so reduces the pressure on the spine.


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## xTrooperx (24 June 2014)

Auslander,  but it's these comments which just sticks in your head, my cob has tanked of and will throw in a few bucks, she is quite happy to carry me and by no means a plod, ppl refuse to ride her as a Handful but it's at the back of my mind every ride is she tired, is this hill to much, am I hurting her back..  I'm hoping to get to 11stone, but I'm at a stand off at mo with weight just sticking 12 1/2st 12.10st.  If I get to 12st I'm going to say f##k it & do the odd day hunting.
Buying a saddle this month, & yes I'm sad enough to ask about saddle weights.


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## Fides (24 June 2014)

xTrooperx said:



			Buying a saddle this month, & yes I'm sad enough to ask about saddle weights.
		
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Not everyone's cup of tea but I have a Shires Optimus Puissance close contact. It's really light and extremely comfortable to ride in. It also has an adjustable gullet

It's in the sale at Fast Tack Direct at the mo. I've used the site many times and they are really reliable. And the do free p&p!

http://www.fasttackdirect.co.uk/pro..._Quality_Leather_Saddle_SIZE_175_ON_SALE.html


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## ameeyal (24 June 2014)

Horses/ponys can carry more weight than people give them credit for, just look at donkeys abroad they carry grown men all day long { and no I don't think its right}


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## xTrooperx (24 June 2014)

Just worked out I'm 16.5% .. So way under the 20/25% rider to horse limit.


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## Fides (24 June 2014)

xTrooperx said:



			Just worked out I'm 16.5% .. So way under the 20/25% rider to horse limit.
		
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I thought it was 15-20, not 20-25%...

Eta-25% would mean my 14h2 welsh D could carry 17 stone. I'm actually pretty horrified by that thought  20% would be 14 stone - still too much. 15% would be 10 and a half stone - much happier with this...


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## cptrayes (24 June 2014)

ameeyal said:



			Horses/ponys can carry more weight than people give them credit for, just look at donkeys abroad they carry grown men all day long { and no I don't think its right}
		
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And they are dead before they reach ten


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## JadeyB (24 June 2014)

ooohhh a good old 'weight debate'!  

I defo don't agree with posting pics of someone else to get people to comment on but i do feel like this issue needs to be addressed by the horsey world somehow, guidelines perhaps because surely there is a welfare issue when it becomes extreme?

I got bad mouthed when looking for a sharer a while ago for voicing my view of not wanting overweight (IMO) riders to try out my horse. he's a 17.2hh MW warmblood but it was not due to me being 'fattist', it's because he's never been a weight carrier and is super sensitive to any shift in balance.  

I think horses are the best hobby going but i feel that people need to be realistic about whether they 'should' ride a particular type of horse... the horse's safety and well being should always come first!


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## Moomin1 (24 June 2014)

ameeyal said:



			Horses/ponys can carry more weight than people give them credit for, just look at donkeys abroad they carry grown men all day long { and no I don't think its right}
		
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So can human beings - it's just they end up with buggered backs and joints.


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## Moomin1 (24 June 2014)

Sukistokes2 said:



			Really!

I just think that some people just have problems with larger people or people who are diferent from them,
we are discussing an issue based on some persons view on the world, without the person who is involved even knowing about it. Does that not strike you as wrong. 
We could be discussing whether skinny people should ride big horses. 
Welfare issues aside this forum should be used for the power of good not for fattie bashing, or for taking the piss out of anyone, It demeans us all.
		
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I have to say it doesn't really strike me as wrong, no.  It's only the same as someone posting a video of the owner of a horse who has neglected it, or battered it with a whip across the face, and people discussing the rights and wrongs of that.  I recently saw someone who is 'heavier' in weight riding a blatantly lame TB, and given that their position was pretty horrendous, coupled with the fact they were bouncing around all over it's back, it made for painful viewing.  I don't think for one second it is wrong of people (and people did comment a lot) to raise concerns for that horse's welfare.  This person must have known (unless they were completely stupid) that the horse was clearly lame (in fact, I think they got sent out of the ring), yet they continued to ride it. That, in my mind, amounts to intentional neglect.


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## JadeyB (24 June 2014)

Sukistokes2 said:



			Really!

We could be discussing whether skinny people should ride big horses. 
.
		
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ummm.... why shouldn't a skinny person ride big horses?!?!  this isn't relative to the subject in the slightest


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## SpringArising (24 June 2014)

Sukistokes2 said:



			Really!

I just think that some people just have problems with larger people or people who are diferent from them,
we are discussing an issue based on some persons view on the world, without the person who is involved even knowing about it. Does that not strike you as wrong. 
We could be discussing whether skinny people should ride big horses. 
Welfare issues aside this forum should be used for the power of good not for fattie bashing, or for taking the piss out of anyone, It demeans us all.
		
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In what way could a slim person physically effect a horse's wellbeing or comfort by being too light?


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## SpringArising (24 June 2014)

Pigeon said:



			I don't think how people look is the issue at all. The point is - the horse is carrying the same weight, regardless of if the rider is male or female.

Also riders that carry their own weight is a myth - get on the scales and try carrying your own weight, does it make a difference to the number? I know that a rider that hinders the horse or thumps down on the horse's back can be bad for them, but I wouldn't let one of those on board, just as I wouldn't let someone too heavy ride! 

Horses do have weight limits, even if people don't want to hear it.
		
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This.


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## TheresaW (24 June 2014)

As Auslander posted a pic, I am going to bit the bullet.  I bought Ollie 2 years ago from Clodagh on here as a 4 year old.  I knew I was too heavy for him at the time, and he is my goal for getting slim.  I joined a slimming club, and was mortified to find out I weighed almost 16st at 5'4. C thought he'd be comfortable carrying about 11st.  For the first year, I didn't get on him, weight slowly came down, and he slowly muscled up.  I concentrated on ground work, and my friend rode him.  I decided when I got to 13st, I would sit on him, just sit, which I did.  I am currently weighing around 12.5st, would like to lose at least a stone more before I am comfortable riding him.  I get on him now and again, but just for around 20mins, walk and a bit of trot.  He is hacked regularly by my friend, and he also has a young sharer who rides him twice a week, hacking and schooling.

This was us 2 weeks ago at the end of my little ride.

Not the best pic in the world, sorry. Was just glad to still be on him, he is much sharper than my 2 oldies.







He is now 6 and stands at just under 15 hands last time we took the measuring stick to him.

Auslander, I think you look great on him.


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## PollyP99 (24 June 2014)

xTrooperx said:



			It is because of these sort of threads I feel guilty and limit my riding even though I have a heavy weight cob (10 inch) and I weigh under 13stone but I look bigger I don't even have a saddle as that would add a extra whole stone on. I've already been told my cob can't go hunting/fast rides because I'm too heavy. 
I also have two other horses one a light weight & other a heavy cob but shorter which I won't be able to ride and be kept as companions/driving as I know I'll get shamed & comments on my weight, yet I've manged to lose 4/5st so I can ride again, but it's never enough :0?
		
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But not having a saddle means you are not distributing your weight, are you saying you are too heavy therefore ride bareback???


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## Moomin1 (24 June 2014)

xTrooperx said:



			It is because of these sort of threads I feel guilty and limit my riding even though I have a heavy weight cob (10 inch) and I weigh under 13stone but I look bigger I don't even have a saddle as that would add a extra whole stone on. I've already been told my cob can't go hunting/fast rides because I'm too heavy. 
I also have two other horses one a light weight & other a heavy cob but shorter which I won't be able to ride and be kept as companions/driving as I know I'll get shamed & comments on my weight, yet I've manged to lose 4/5st so I can ride again, but it's never enough :0?
		
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But where's the point blaming 'these threads'?  If you are overweight for your horses, then that IS a welfare issue and something you should address, be it by losing more weight or getting something more suited to carrying your weight.  Not having a pop here, but just don't see what good it is for someone to blame other people for an issue which essentially is in your control only.


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## ozpoz (24 June 2014)

There is ongoing research on this just now. If you are interested, the Saddle Research Trust Conference in November is for you!

Personally, I hate to see an over loaded horse. Yes, it will carry you willingly, yes it will beggar off, jump etc. but can you hand on heart say that you aren't damaging joints and backs, long term? I don't think so.


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## thewonderhorse (24 June 2014)

Fides said:



			I thought it was 15-20, not 20-25%...

Eta-25% would mean my 14h2 welsh D could carry 17 stone. I'm actually pretty horrified by that thought  20% would be 14 stone - still too much. 15% would be 10 and a half stone - much happier with this...
		
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Agree totally. I would never let my 16st OH ride my 14.2 welsh.


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## PollyP99 (24 June 2014)

To demonstrate how horses can be abused and seemingly stand for it, see below ( not for the faint hearted) it's on youtube so put out there for viewing. Disgusting

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=H8G6O9Zpo64

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=v259IctzVWQ


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## Clodagh (24 June 2014)

cptrayes said:



			This discussion is about the weight of the rider relative to the horse. The gender of the rider is absolutely totally irrelevant.
		
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But there aren't many muscular, fit women well over 6', so in that context gender was vaguely relevant.


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## Clodagh (24 June 2014)

TheresaW said:



			As Auslander posted a pic, I am going to bit the bullet.  I bought Ollie 2 years ago from Clodagh on here as a 4 year old.  I knew I was too heavy for him at the time, and he is my goal for getting slim.  I joined a slimming club, and was mortified to find out I weighed almost 16st at 5'4. C thought he'd be comfortable carrying about 11st.  For the first year, I didn't get on him, weight slowly came down, and he slowly muscled up.  I concentrated on ground work, and my friend rode him.  I decided when I got to 13st, I would sit on him, just sit, which I did.  I am currently weighing around 12.5st, would like to lose at least a stone more before I am comfortable riding him.  I get on him now and again, but just for around 20mins, walk and a bit of trot.  He is hacked regularly by my friend, and he also has a young sharer who rides him twice a week, hacking and schooling.

This was us 2 weeks ago at the end of my little ride.

Not the best pic in the world, sorry. Was just glad to still be on him, he is much sharper than my 2 oldies.







He is now 6 and stands at just under 15 hands last time we took the measuring stick to him.

Auslander, I think you look great on him.
		
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Now that he is 6 he can carry more than 11 stone, IMO. He's a lovely boy!


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## Moomin1 (24 June 2014)

Clodagh said:



			But there aren't many muscular, fit women well over 6', so in that context gender was vaguely relevant.
		
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I actually think there is a difference between a muscular, fit rider and a fat, overweight rider of the same weight riding.  Generally, the muscular fit rider will have a better core strength and be more able to maintain a lighter seat and better position.


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## RunToEarth (24 June 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			I actually think there is a difference between a muscular, fit rider and a fat, overweight rider of the same weight riding.  Generally, the muscular fit rider will have a better core strength and be more able to maintain a lighter seat and better position.
		
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I do agree with you, but weight is weight, and I still think you have to take a view on what is acceptable total weight for a horse to carry.


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## Moomin1 (24 June 2014)

RunToEarth said:



			I do agree with you, but weight is weight, and I still think you have to take a view on what is acceptable total weight for a horse to carry.
		
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Yes definately.  Whilst I think there is a difference, it's still a fine line between both.


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## exracehorse (24 June 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			But where's the point blaming 'these threads'?  If you are overweight for your horses, then that IS a welfare issue and something you should address, be it by losing more weight or getting something more suited to carrying your weight.  Not having a pop here, but just don't see what good it is for someone to blame other people for an issue which essentially is in your control only.
		
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Agree with above. My horse is a 15.2 tb. I am 8 stone. I would not let anyone ride him over 10 stone.  I am not against someone who is too heavy,  was going to say fat but not sure if that's politically correct now a days.  As a nation we are getting bigger and bigger because we eat too much.  Simples. So dont get on a horse that would struggle with that weight.  I don't understand why it's such a taboo subject.  People are scared of saying anything in case it offends.


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## minkymoo (24 June 2014)

I'm going to be honest & say TheresaW that I think you look fine. If he was 3 or 4 then maaaaybe, but don't forget it is an excellent motivator! FWIW, I found that cutting out carbs after 2pm helped, it's murder though! Also, every time you reach for something to eat that you don't need, think of your horse and your goal. Good luck, I know how hard it is 

I think it is riders like this: http://youtu.be/dRF9OdAhILY

& this: http://youtu.be/uV3VxRGkGeQ

that are a concern and IMHO, just abuse, I think they are obesely overweight and need to lose the poundage before even contemplating getting on a horse


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## TheresaW (24 June 2014)

Thankyou Minkymoo. I will never be thin, but want to lose that bit more as much for myself as for Ollie.  Unfortunately, I do love pasta, but am careful what I eat, and have started cycling to work as well.

Those riders were pretty grim viewing, poor horses.  Will definitely make me think before I grab a biscuit, big bar of choc, 2nd glass of wine etc.


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## Patterdale (24 June 2014)

ejwhitmore said:



			....She is around 15/16 stone and has brought a lightweight cob...
		
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BOUGHT the horse, she BOUGHT the horse. Not bRought. 

Aaaarrrrrfgggghhh!!!!


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## Fides (24 June 2014)

Patterdale said:



			BOUGHT the horse, she BOUGHT the horse. Not bRought. 

Aaaarrrrrfgggghhh!!!!
		
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There's no f'in Aaaarrrrgggghhh


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## alainax (24 June 2014)

Patterdale said:



			BOUGHT the horse, she BOUGHT the horse. Not bRought. 

Aaaarrrrrfgggghhh!!!!
		
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Phew glad you said it! Now I can breathe again 



Fides said:



			There's no f'in Aaaarrrrgggghhh 

Click to expand...

I think it was a ARrrrr *Fooking* gghhhhhhh just said really fast


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## Goldenstar (24 June 2014)

cptrayes said:



			And they are dead before they reach ten 

Click to expand...

Exactly ,
I find this an uncomfortable subject,  the weight percentage thing is part of the calculation I worked out after one of the recent threads on this I am 12% of my horses weight but I know I would ride better if I where lighter . 
Conformation , age ,muscular development ,type of work all need to in the mix as well .
I aiming to get down to ten % .


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## MaisieMcPherson92 (24 June 2014)

minkymoo said:



			I'm going to be honest & say TheresaW that I think you look fine. If he was 3 or 4 then maaaaybe, but don't forget it is an excellent motivator! FWIW, I found that cutting out carbs after 2pm helped, it's murder though! Also, every time you reach for something to eat that you don't need, think of your horse and your goal. Good luck, I know how hard it is 

I think it is riders like this: http://youtu.be/dRF9OdAhILY

& this: http://youtu.be/uV3VxRGkGeQ

that are a concern and IMHO, just abuse, I think they are obesely overweight and need to lose the poundage before even contemplating getting on a horse 

Click to expand...



Owwwwh, Diet2Ride (your first video link) follows me on Twitter - I've occasionally checked back in with her over the years, she is a lovely girl and openly admits her weight is an issue.

Her last update was 25 stone her BMI is 60+ (as seen on her blog/twitter page)

These videos do make me wince slightly


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## gembear (24 June 2014)

TheresaW said:



			As Auslander posted a pic, I am going to bit the bullet.  I bought Ollie 2 years ago from Clodagh on here as a 4 year old.  I knew I was too heavy for him at the time, and he is my goal for getting slim.  I joined a slimming club, and was mortified to find out I weighed almost 16st at 5'4. C thought he'd be comfortable carrying about 11st.  For the first year, I didn't get on him, weight slowly came down, and he slowly muscled up.  I concentrated on ground work, and my friend rode him.  I decided when I got to 13st, I would sit on him, just sit, which I did.  I am currently weighing around 12.5st, would like to lose at least a stone more before I am comfortable riding him.  I get on him now and again, but just for around 20mins, walk and a bit of trot.  He is hacked regularly by my friend, and he also has a young sharer who rides him twice a week, hacking and schooling.

This was us 2 weeks ago at the end of my little ride.

Not the best pic in the world, sorry. Was just glad to still be on him, he is much sharper than my 2 oldies.







He is now 6 and stands at just under 15 hands last time we took the measuring stick to him.

Auslander, I think you look great on him.
		
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Firstly, what an achievement and you look great!

Secondly (and unrelated) how did you get your photo to show up? :S I can't do it.


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## cptrayes (24 June 2014)

I've been working this out in my head all day, and I've come to this:

For any given horse, there is a maximum weight that horse can carry.

Depending on the stockiness of the horse, that is likely to be between 15 and 20 % of the horse's weight at a condition score of three.

Then there are a number of factors which reduce the weight that horse should carry:

- working for a longer time and/or at faster speeds
- carrying a novice rider
- carrying an unbalanced and/or unfit rider with poor core body strength
- being unable to carry a saddle with a panel large enough to get the riders weight down to 1.5 pounds per square inch.


Anyone think there should be any more conditions?


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## gembear (24 June 2014)

JadeyB said:



			ooohhh a good old 'weight debate'!  

I defo don't agree with posting pics of someone else to get people to comment on but i do feel like this issue needs to be addressed by the horsey world somehow, guidelines perhaps because surely there is a welfare issue when it becomes extreme?

I got bad mouthed when looking for a sharer a while ago for voicing my view of not wanting overweight (IMO) riders to try out my horse. he's a 17.2hh MW warmblood but it was not due to me being 'fattist', it's because he's never been a weight carrier and is super sensitive to any shift in balance.  

I think horses are the best hobby going but i feel that people need to be realistic about whether they 'should' ride a particular type of horse... the horse's safety and well being should always come first!
		
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I often see share ad's with a weight restriction these days, which tells you something I guess :S


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## Marchogaeth (24 June 2014)

MerrySherryRider said:



			I'm not talking about people who need to lose a stone or so, it's the seriously big riders who should stop and think about the stress on the horse's back and joints. 

It does make me cross.
		
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This^ my sentiments exactly!! I mean you'd of thought people would be aware if things like that.


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## Marchogaeth (24 June 2014)

LadyRascasse said:



			I am size 8 and I hate all this weight talk, I hate people picking on my weight so I can imagine what it's like if you are overweight. Sometimes you can't help being the weight you are, and openly picking on people just isn't on. Yes some people are too big for there horse but it's not your prerogative to tell people if they can or can't ride based on there weight!!
		
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Again I think this is the complete wrong attitude to have, I too am a size 6/8, but I don't see why that's relivent (other than u don't fair well on my y/o's 18.2hh beasty... ) that's just like seeing a 17st woman on a 15hh Arab, and thinking that poor horse, but shhh! We mustn't say anything... It doesn't matter about the horse so long as we don't hurt that woman's feelings-.- 
I'm sorry but if perhaps i didn't know any better, but I cared for my horse I would want someone to say something, wouldn't you? X


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## TheresaW (24 June 2014)

gembear said:



			Firstly, what an achievement and you look great!

Secondly (and unrelated) how did you get your photo to show up? :S I can't do it.
		
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I use the img link in photo bucket.

Thanks for the compliments. He is such a sweetie, hope will really have some fun with him soon.


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## _HP_ (24 June 2014)

cptrayes said:



			This discussion is about the weight of the rider relative to the horse. The gender of the rider is absolutely totally irrelevant.
		
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And I am reminding people that many men weigh the sorts of weights that are being mentioned ...not all of them are riding 18hh cart horses.
Who put you in charge anyway!!


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## Moomin1 (24 June 2014)

_HP_ said:



			And I am reminding people that many men weigh the sorts of weights that are being mentioned ...not all of them are riding 18hh cart horses.
Who put you in charge anyway!! 

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Gender is irrelevant. Because man, or woman, if they weigh that much, then they SHOULD be riding something which can take their weight comfortably.


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## gembear (24 June 2014)

MaisieMcPherson92 said:



			Owwwwh, Diet2Ride (your first video link) follows me on Twitter - I've occasionally checked back in with her over the years, she is a lovely girl and openly admits her weight is an issue.

Her last update was 25 stone her BMI is 60+ (as seen on her blog/twitter page)

These videos do make me wince slightly 

Click to expand...

same, unfortunately. the horse does not look comfortable.


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## _HP_ (24 June 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			Gender is irrelevant. Because man, or woman, if they weigh that much, then they SHOULD be riding something which can take their weight comfortably.
		
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I agree....

I guess I was just 'trying' to point out that you can't always judge a persons  weight just by looking at them


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## Sukistokes2 (24 June 2014)

JadeyB said:



			ummm.... why shouldn't a skinny person ride big horses?!?!  this isn't relative to the subject in the slightest
		
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within the context of the thread at the time and the point being made it was at the time.


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## Moomin1 (24 June 2014)

Sukistokes2 said:



			within the context of the thread at the time and the point being made it was at the time.
		
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But the thread is entitled 'larger rider on lightweight horse'.  Inferring that the rider is too heavy for the horse.


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## Cheshire Chestnut (24 June 2014)

Fides said:



			I thought it was 15-20, not 20-25%...

Eta-25% would mean my 14h2 welsh D could carry 17 stone. I'm actually pretty horrified by that thought  20% would be 14 stone - still too much. 15% would be 10 and a half stone - much happier with this...
		
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I'm feeling a bit mortified... I'm a consistant 10st 11lb and I have a 14:1hh Welsh D who's 6, almost 7. He now has a good quality leather saddle that is fairly hefty and I'd guess he's carrying around 11 and hald stone in total. I do cross country, long hacks and general schooling on him. I'm a size 10 but I run, swim and do toning weights, therefore although slim I have an athetic body which makes me heavy.

Before this thread I never thought I'd be too heavy for him but now I feel quite paranoid I am 

This is me on him (sorry, no other pics on my work computer to use) https://www.flickr.com/photos/112093906@N08/12607917785/


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## Fides (24 June 2014)

Cheshire Chestnut said:



			I'm feeling a bit mortified... I'm a consistant 10st 11lb and I have a 14:1hh Welsh D who's 6, almost 7. He now has a good quality leather saddle that is fairly hefty and I'd guess he's carrying around 11 and hald stone in total. I do cross country, long hacks and general schooling on him. I'm a size 10 but I run, swim and do toning weights, therefore although slim I have an athetic body which makes me heavy.

Before this thread I never thought I'd be too heavy for him but now I feel quite paranoid I am 

This is me on him (sorry, no other pics on my work computer to use) https://www.flickr.com/photos/112093906@N08/12607917785/

Click to expand...

Don't be paranoid - your a bit above 15% but def below 20%  you look fine  if  my boy was 7 I would put you on him. He's a newly broken 5yo so I've set my mental limit to 10st which means me being careful with my weight


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## MerrySherryRider (24 June 2014)

CC, don't be daft, you're absolutely fine. Really. 

The women in the Utube links are too heavy by several stone. 
The horses are struggling to carry the load. It would be interesting to show those horses being ridden by a much lighter person to demonstrate  the horse's movement and posture which would be markedly different.

What on earth goes through the mind of someone so morbidly obese to think that it's ok to ask a horse to carry them ? 
I understand that they may sensitive about their weight but the reality remains that it's putting an acceptable risk on the horse. 

The only downside from weight threads is that the people carry a bit of extra weight start to feel that they may too heavy to ride, when in fact, the horse is perfectly ok. Don't worry, only 13 year olds weigh 7 stone, the rest of us carry a bit of padding.


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## conniegirl (24 June 2014)

The problem with threads like this is people start getting utterly rediculas about what a horse can carry and start imposing weight limits that are far far too low. If some people had thier way no one who wasnt a size 6 would be able to ride!

a 14.2hh welshie was BRED to carry weight and happily carry a full grown man (so 14st) all day out hunting. 
My 14hh connemara happily carried 12 stone every day for 10 years without a single back or joint problem doing county level showing, medium dressage, XC and long hacks!
My 13.2hh SP carried 10st for most of his competition life and then 12 stone out hacking untill he passed away aged 28 having never had a back or limb problem in his life and very happily taking off up the nearest hill at a gallop when the mood took him
My 15hh SHP also happily carried me (and I broke him myself) this is him certainly not struggling at all with 12st











my new lad is 15.2hh, 4 yrs old, I've broken him myself and he is moving and going like a dream. This is him 4 weeks after having been sat on for the first time.
http://youtu.be/xuDk0VJyN0w
My riding is far from perfect (and I dont want a critique) but I'm balanced (mostly) and my horses have no trouble carrying me!

A HW cob should be able to carry 16st, if it cant then it isnt a HW cob!


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## Cheshire Chestnut (24 June 2014)

Phew, I feel a bit better. I shall just stay off the cakes 

Nar my weight has been pretty much the same for the last 5 years so unless I really change my lifestyle, my weight shouldn't change. *crosses fingers*


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## WelshD (25 June 2014)

There is a growing culture of 'i want' these days 

I want a dog despite being out of the house for 17 hours a day
I want a fast car despite not being able to afford one etc etc

So 'i want a horse and want to ride despite being vastly overweight, he can carry me without keeling over so all must be well'

People worrying so much about their wants that they dont stop to ask if its right.

Sooooo many seriously obese riders around who selfishly press ahead with their 'hobby' regardless. (im not talking about the mildly overweight here before anyone complains)
Aside from the weight carrying side of things things could go seriously wrong for horse and/or rider if they fall off. 

There are ways of getting a horsey fix without riding. There is no reason for people to be put off the horse world altogether but as long as they are seen to be 'untouchable' the problem gets swept under the carpet, if the rider owns the horse its made all the harder. Local shows see a lot of these riders and it should be able to be seen as a welfare issue and tackled but imagine the uproar! 

Once again before people come down on me like a ton of bricks  when i say seriously obese thats exactly what i mean.


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## hackneylass2 (25 June 2014)

As I see it weight is the last taboo......smoking has been tackled by govt campaigns as beeing injurous to health but the growing problem of obesity seems to be sacrosanct.  Why?

Its the obese children of obese parents I feel sorriest for. Smokers can be alienated but mention someone's weight and oh crikey!!!!


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## Asha (25 June 2014)

xTrooperx said:



			Auslander,  but it's these comments which just sticks in your head, my cob has tanked of and will throw in a few bucks, she is quite happy to carry me and by no means a plod, ppl refuse to ride her as a Handful but it's at the back of my mind every ride is she tired, is this hill to much, am I hurting her back..  I'm hoping to get to 11stone, but I'm at a stand off at mo with weight just sticking 12 1/2st 12.10st.  If I get to 12st I'm going to say f##k it & do the odd day hunting.
Buying a saddle this month, & yes I'm sad enough to ask about saddle weights.
		
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well done with the weight loss, just stay focused and you will do it.

I can finally admit I was to heavy for my horse. It hadn't ever crossed my mind, then I signed up to HHO, and read all these threads. Best thing I ever did. I'm 5ft6 and weighed 12st 9. The heaviest I've ever been, was so upset, the weight had just crept on over the years. 
Well it's taken me since January, and I'm now 10st 6. What a difference when I ride, and my horses are definitely happier when I get on. 
I have another 7lb to lose, but that's more so I can stand on the scales just for once to see 9st something

So Trooper, if I can do it, so can you xx


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## Penguinboots (25 June 2014)

I would be interested if any research has been carried out on people's builds (rather than weight) and their effect on the horse.

Would a pear shaped rider with most of their weight in their legs (and therefore wrapped around the horse) do less damage than a big-boobed, top-heavy rider (whose weight will be moving around more on top of the horse)? 

I know that weight is weight at the end of the day - Just a thought really!


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## conniegirl (25 June 2014)

For those saying weight is just weight, have you ever tried to lift someone who is unconscious vs someone who activly tries to help you. Far far easier to lift someone who tries to balance themselves over deadweight!


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## delaneys (25 June 2014)

I hate these threads!
I'm over weight but have lost over  5 stone too ride again, my weight gain was so sudden, I had a misscarriage and didn't think it bothered me much as it wasn't planned and I wasn't ready to be a mum but I honestly think that was a trigger to my weight gain and it took 2 years for me to be like holy **** what have u done!!
It's deffo easier to gain that it is to lose!
But now I finally feel confident to ride my horses, I'm not 12 stone yet but I'm closer than I was 2 years ago and I enjoy riding my tbs and cobs! 

I think tbe lady of 25stone riding in the video is too much, but I followed her blog and I don't believe she made much effort tbh, eating cake for breakfast and giant bars of choc after dinner won't help you lose weight!!!

Anyway as long as people are sensible and listen to their horses then I think that's fine but I don't think any horse should ever carry more than 20stone ever.


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## minkymoo (25 June 2014)

In the interest of fairness, I'll post a pic of me at my heaviest last year (13st) so you can see that I was pretty fat! I'm 5'8" so tallish, but far to heavy to ride. (I'd also like to point out that this was when he had a saddle put on him and in no way was anyone going to ride him!)






And this is me at 10st 5






(Hope the pics work, I find photobucket a nightmare at the mo!!)

There is no magic cure to losing weight, it's torture and bloody hard work, but if you can get to your goal and stay roughly near it then it's worth it!


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## LittleMonster (25 June 2014)

PollyP99 said:



			To demonstrate how horses can be abused and seemingly stand for it, see below ( not for the faint hearted) it's on youtube so put out there for viewing. Disgusting

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=H8G6O9Zpo64

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=v259IctzVWQ

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Sorry just wanted to add, when i helped out at a riding school we had a weight limit (as most RS have) but you can always tell if you are too heavy for the horse (from the ground) as in these videos you can see the horse nearly buckling and the movement not as floaty/fluid as normal, if you know what i mean? they are quite stiff through the movements. 

as i weighed 5 stone at 15 i was put on all the ponies at the riding school i was nervous i would be too heavy, but the instructors used to ask me to circle them in walk and trot,  to see if the movement of the horse was effected by my weight, this was how i was taught to notice if the weight was too much. Maybe im wrong in that but im sure you would be able to feel it too?

But some horses are built/breed to carry weight but it all depends on the individual horse and the factors like age, breed, ect..

I have seen many people who are too big for their horses but would never dream of taking a picture and posting it on here. but i have to say this is an interesting thread.


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## thewonderhorse (25 June 2014)

MaisieMcPherson92 said:



			Owwwwh, Diet2Ride (your first video link) follows me on Twitter - I've occasionally checked back in with her over the years, she is a lovely girl and openly admits her weight is an issue.

Her last update was 25 stone her BMI is 60+ (as seen on her blog/twitter page)

These videos do make me wince slightly 

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I'm sure she's a lovely girl but there is no way she should be riding a horse at that weight. Totally totally unfair in my opinion.


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## thewonderhorse (25 June 2014)

WelshD said:



			There is a growing culture of 'i want' these days 

I want a dog despite being out of the house for 17 hours a day
I want a fast car despite not being able to afford one etc etc

So 'i want a horse and want to ride despite being vastly overweight, he can carry me without keeling over so all must be well'

People worrying so much about their wants that they dont stop to ask if its right.

Sooooo many seriously obese riders around who selfishly press ahead with their 'hobby' regardless. (im not talking about the mildly overweight here before anyone complains)
Aside from the weight carrying side of things things could go seriously wrong for horse and/or rider if they fall off. 

There are ways of getting a horsey fix without riding. There is no reason for people to be put off the horse world altogether but as long as they are seen to be 'untouchable' the problem gets swept under the carpet, if the rider owns the horse its made all the harder. Local shows see a lot of these riders and it should be able to be seen as a welfare issue and tackled but imagine the uproar! 

Once again before people come down on me like a ton of bricks  when i say seriously obese thats exactly what i mean.
		
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Totally agree WelshD


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## Batgirl (25 June 2014)

I always struggle with these threads a) being overweight b) being an ex-physio and knowing the difference balance and core make to the carrying of weight c) i find they go round in circles.

I weight 17st at 5ft7 and my 17hh chunky Wb (pictured in signature) carries me weel, he has regular check ups with physio and saddle fitter.  WE jump, dressage, long hacks etc.

At 16 st I have a 14'3 Welshie who carried me equally fine (with equal checks and no problems at the point he was 16yrs with me)

There are horses that I wont get on as I take a wide (pun not intended) view of the horses age,  my view of its' saddle fit relative to me, the 'weight' of the horse etc.  I am athletic (ex North of England rugby player) so fall into the 'men' category people often mention, I carry some extra padding but also a huge amount of muscle.  I will not let someone tell me I am a well fare issue for my horse as I know it not to me true for me and my horse.  I would however not lie to a riding school to pretend to be under their limit (as I do look a lot lighter than I am) or ride someone elses horse that they deemed too small for me.


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## dogatemysalad (25 June 2014)

I have enormous respect for my saddler who refused to fit a saddle for a woman who was too heavy for her pony. The newly backed pony already had back problems but the vet and physio didn't have the guts to tell her, instead they treated the animal and sent in their bills. 

There are many ways to be involved with horses without riding, but if someone wants to ride, they need to have the same degree of responsibility they expect from the horse. It should be a pleasure for both partners, not an endurance test.


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## DragonSlayer (25 June 2014)

Why do you feel the need to post pictures of you and your horse to justify you riding them?

Only you know really what your horse can carry and if you ARE too heavy for them but doing something about it, good on you. As for those who will carry on in ignorance, well...not much we can do about that.

We know we have a nation with a problem of obesity, but we shouldn't have to walk on egg shells in fear of upsetting people because of weight. I liked a horse once and my instructor told me in no uncertain terms I was too heavy. Fair enough....bit of a diet and got something with a little more bone because I know my weight fluctuates.

Don't need to post pics here for other people to 'give their stamp of approval' to ride! 

Trust in yourselves and love yourselves.


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## Moomin1 (25 June 2014)

DragonSlayer said:



			Why do you feel the need to post pictures of you and your horse to justify you riding them?

Only you know really what your horse can carry and if you ARE too heavy for them but doing something about it, good on you. As for those who will carry on in ignorance, well...not much we can do about that.

We know we have a nation with a problem of obesity, but we shouldn't have to walk on egg shells in fear of upsetting people because of weight. I liked a horse once and my instructor told me in no uncertain terms I was too heavy. Fair enough....bit of a diet and got something with a little more bone because I know my weight fluctuates.

Don't need to post pics here for other people to 'give their stamp of approval' to ride! 

Trust in yourselves and love yourselves. 



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The problem is though is that there are clearly many, many riders out there who do not think they are too heavy for their horse, when clearly they are.


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## Goldenstar (25 June 2014)

I think it's fairly clear there are lots of people out there who don't know what's  appropriate. 
But finding out what's appropriate is not clear cut either is it 10 % or 15 % or higher where does optimal become ok but not ideal , where  ok but not ideal become potentially harmful ,where does potentially harmful become harmful and so on .
Are the percentages backed up with any research are or they a scientific best guess . 
Like I said earlier I find this a very difficult thing to discuss but at least we can discuss this here I would find it impossible face to face .


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## conniegirl (25 June 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			The problem is though is that there are clearly many, many riders out there who do not think they are too heavy for their horse, when clearly they are.
		
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And there are clearly many many people out there who are made to feel like crap for carrying a little extra weight (not talking about obese people here just the slightly overweight) and those who have stupidly low expectations for what a horse can comfortably carry a 16.2 Tb in reasonable health (ie no back problems) can comfortably carry 12st. 
For stocky little natives the guide was a stone per hand! 
People saying 14hh connies can only carry 8st are just wrong and it gets the backs up of those who are not the perfect weight but are considerate of thier horses backs. 
No I don't think 25st obese people should be riding but 12 to 15st is not unreasonable for a lot of cobs, hunter types and larger m&m's.


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## Goldenstar (25 June 2014)

conniegirl said:



			No I don't think 25st obese people should be riding but 12 to 15st is not unreasonable for a lot of cobs, hunter types and larger m&m's.
		
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I don't think anyone is saying it's unreasonable for people 12 to 15 stone to be riding .


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## alainax (25 June 2014)

Goldenstar said:



			I don't think anyone is saying it's unreasonable for people 12 to 15 stone to be riding .
		
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However it is endemic in our culture for people to judge themselves against something like this. These threads do not stop the 25stone riders, but they do put the fear of god into those who are heavier than average, but still riding a suitable mount. 

On the other thread that this spawned from, the OP guessed the weight of a rider at about 3 stone more than others guessed. This will happen day in day out with riders. People are rubbish at guessing the weight of others. Potentially for a really slim person, 14 stone  or say a size 16, may seem absolutely huge, and disgust them that they would even think of getting on a horse.

We each are entitled to our opinion on what we think looks best or not ( I know id look a million times better when I shift a few more stones!) the question is,  when is it having an effect on the horse, and how can you tell that. 

Pictures are also just a snap shot in time, I have many fat photos!

 The rider, vets, saddler, judges, instructors, physios should be the ones who listen to the horse, and know what is suitable for him to carry. 

The 10% 15%  20% notion, the bone equation etc, are all useful tools to provide you with a very rough idea. However, in my opinion, they have to be used in conjunction with each other, with the experts opinions, and the horses opinion.. and not exclusively.


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## Goldenstar (25 June 2014)

20% seems to much to me .
Any one know where these figures come from ?
10 for athletic performance work and 15 for less hard work is what I seem to remember but I have no idea where that comes from .
There's no harm in discussing this type of issue on here it's not a taboo that should never be explored  in fact it needs to be discussed .
Wherever you go you see disordered attitudes to size  and disordered attitudes to eating was it always this way or is a modern issue ?


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## alainax (25 June 2014)

Goldenstar said:



			20% seems to much to me .
Any one know where these figures come from ?
10 for athletic performance work and 15 for less hard work is what I seem to remember but I have no idea where that comes from .
There's no harm in discussing this type of issue on here it's not a taboo that should never be explored  in fact it needs to be discussed .
Wherever you go you see disordered attitudes to size  and disordered attitudes to eating was it always this way or is a modern issue ?
		
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It was the American cavalry iirc who started off the 20%. Since then there have been many studies ( I am sure others will find links faster than me!), with one just recently, claiming that 10% was optimal, 15% was ok, and 20% or above was not ok for animals in competition. 
The press grabbed it as all riders over 10% as being "cruel" and there was a big hoo haa about it. 

I really like the idea of there being more studies, particularly technical ones, in regard to rider shape ( as someone mentioned earlier), riders ability, saddle, and then all the nitty gritty about the shape and size of the horse. Id love to take part if anyone needs an.. um... ok fat rider 

I agree that 20% seems a lot, however as a rule, its a fab limiter for me. I've lost 4 stone to be able to ride my boy I am just over 15% with tack.  I am aiming for under 15% ( by the years end!), and warned myself if I ever get heavier, I simply cant ride him.


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## *hic* (25 June 2014)

Goldenstar said:



			20% seems to much to me .
Any one know where these figures come from ?
10 for athletic performance work and 15 for less hard work is what I seem to remember but I have no idea where that comes from .
There's no harm in discussing this type of issue on here it's not a taboo that should never be explored  in fact it needs to be discussed .
Wherever you go you see disordered attitudes to size  and disordered attitudes to eating was it always this way or is a modern issue ?
		
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10% for athletic performance would mean that for a 650Kg horse you'd recommend that no-one weighing more than about 65Kg should be riding. So Mary King would squeak in there riding with no tack at all, but Will F-P, Sir Mark, Andrew Nicholson etc would all be too heavy for any athletic equine performance. Charlotte Dujardin would have to take over all Carl's rides . . . but even then she'll have to choose a very light saddle to get inside the weight.

And people wonder that there's so much confusion and disordered attitudes


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## horselover88 (25 June 2014)

I have never even considered my weight when it comes to riding! How do you work it out?

Obviously at 5ft7 and about 10st6 I would like to think my 16 hand warmblood is plenty enough horse! Saying that, I also feel that due to my position and riding experience I could probably get away with riding much smaller horses than a novice who weighed less but did not have the same amount of balance. I don't think it is just height of horse- but also build, age, condition etc which affects this too. Would also like to think I have the experience and common sense to look at a horse and know I am probably too tall/big. 

Saw the videos of the extremely obese riding... that is horrendous and in my eyes becomes a welfare issue. I am not talking mildly overweight here for anyone that has not watched the videos. Shocking these people think it is ok, especially as horse is clearly struggling.


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## Beausmate (25 June 2014)

Racehorses (including flat racers) carry more than 10% in races.  Wonder where that figure came from?


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## Penguinboots (25 June 2014)

jemima*askin said:



			10% for athletic performance would mean that for a 650Kg horse you'd recommend that no-one weighing more than about 65Kg should be riding. So Mary King would squeak in there riding with no tack at all, but Will F-P, Sir Mark, Andrew Nicholson etc would all be too heavy for any athletic equine performance. Charlotte Dujardin would have to take over all Carl's rides . . . but even then she'll have to choose a very light saddle to get inside the weight.

And people wonder that there's so much confusion and disordered attitudes 

Click to expand...

Agree with this! 10% would mean that a 450kg TB could only take a smidge over 7 stone? 

Judging by this thread, there is no hard and fast rule (which is a shame, because it would make life easier!) - every horse and rider combination is different, and their fit for one another should be assessed on a case-by-case basis.


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## Goldenstar (25 June 2014)

I  think Mary King would easily be inside that weight she built like a greyhound .
But you have a good point most men would be outside that and a 650 kilo TB / sport horse is a big one .
So how did they come to 10% was it based on research done around racing I wonder .
And what was meant by optimal ? -for performance or for long term horse health the two are not the same thing .


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## Goldenstar (25 June 2014)

It also occurs to me that basing it on percentage of the weight of the horse is a bit nuts as it takes no account of the condition of the horse a fat horse can not carry more weight than a well muscled slim one of the same size .
That's where age conformation muscle tone and type of work comes in .


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## alainax (25 June 2014)

Goldenstar said:



			I  think Mary King would easily be inside that weight she built like a greyhound .
But you have a good point most men would be outside that and a 650 kilo TB / sport horse is a big one .
So how did they come to 10% was it based on research done around racing I wonder .
And what was meant by optimal ? -for performance or for long term horse health the two are not the same thing .
		
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Here is a press article about it

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ght-riders-giving-mounts-health-problems.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ng-the-strain-of-Britains-obesity-crisis.html

What I don't like about those articles though is that they say "only 5% of riders were of the optimum weight" but not how or why they came about 10% as being the optimum weight.. confusing!


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## *hic* (25 June 2014)

Goldenstar said:



			I  think Mary King would easily be inside that weight she built like a greyhound .
But you have a good point most men would be outside that and a 650 kilo TB / sport horse is a big one .
So how did they come to 10% was it based on research done around racing I wonder .
And what was meant by optimal ? -for performance or for long term horse health the two are not the same thing .
		
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Sad thing that I am I googled for riders' weights and the figure they give for MK is 65Kg  

And yes, age, type, conformation, fitness of course needs to be taken into account.


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## PaddyMonty (25 June 2014)

If 10% was the rule I wouldn't be riding this one. Horse 585kg (18hh, 7/8TB), me 11 stone. 11.9%


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## Goldenstar (25 June 2014)

It is very interesting and it has got me thinking .
Of course it could be good research I really don't know and many top riders might be heavier than optimal for their horses but it does not feel right .
Who knows , I do know there's sexism often at play in attitudes to this issue with any women over nine stone being thought big but big blokes being somehow ok . 
I don't know what Andrew Nicholson weighs but it make no sense to me to say that he would have the same impact on a horse as unbalanced very overweight person weighing the same .
You only have to watch his horses going to see how easy he makes it for them .


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## Goldenstar (25 June 2014)

PaddyMonty said:



			If 10% was the rule I wouldn't be riding this one. Horse 585kg (18hh, 7/8TB), me 11 stone. 11.9%











Click to expand...

Well I think all this shows that 10% just seems silly .


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## Goldenstar (25 June 2014)

jemima*askin said:



			Sad thing that I am I googled for riders' weights and the figure they give for MK is 65Kg  

And yes, age, type, conformation, fitness of course needs to be taken into account.
		
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OMG you can google top riders weights , another reason to be thankful I am not that talented .


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## Buddy'sMum (25 June 2014)

Goldenstar said:



			20% seems to much to me .
Any one know where these figures come from ?
10 for athletic performance work and 15 for less hard work is what I seem to remember but I have no idea where that comes from .
		
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http://www.horsesciencenews.com/horseback-riding/how-much-weight-can-a-horse-carry.php

there's a link to the original article at the bottom but it's a pay for access one


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## Penguinboots (25 June 2014)

This is the link to the abstract of the paper: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1558787812002365 (not sure if it's freely available to everyone, or whether I have access because I'm at work!)

It does suggest that the 10% rule is unrealistic in the real world. 

Interestingly - the following paper suggests that Taishuh ponies (I'd never heard of them either!) can carry up to 43% of their BW in trot: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23736046


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## Goldenstar (25 June 2014)

Where do I get a Taishuh pony and pass the cake .


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## Penguinboots (25 June 2014)

Also, this paper suggests that rising trot is better for the horse than sitting (well duh!): http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19926088 therefore backing up the idea that being balanced is beneficial to the horse.

Interesting stuff!


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## JFTDWS (25 June 2014)

Goldenstar said:



			I don't know what Andrew Nicholson weighs but it make no sense to me to say that he would have the same impact on a horse as unbalanced very overweight person weighing the same .
You only have to watch his horses going to see how easy he makes it for them .
		
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I volunteer to give AN a piggy back and test out this theory


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## Auslander (25 June 2014)

JFTD said:



			I volunteer to give AN a piggy back and test out this theory 

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There are more interesting ways to make the beast with two backs!


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## JFTDWS (25 June 2014)

Auslander said:



			There are more interesting ways to make the beast with two backs!
		
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Look you, if I get my hands on him, "piggy back" will be entirely euphemistic in meaning!


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## PaddyMonty (25 June 2014)

JFTD said:



			I volunteer to give AN a piggy back and test out this theory 

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Remember, to test the theory you will also have to give a piggy back to a very overweight unbalanced person. Still keen?


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## *hic* (25 June 2014)

Here we go: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/2012/athletes/2a1c9110-880b-4647-a3b4-7104b7c6c1f9


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## JFTDWS (25 June 2014)

PaddyMonty said:



			Remember, to test the theory you will also have to give a piggy back to a very overweight unbalanced person. Still keen?
		
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I'm prepared to make some sacrifices, in the name of science of course...


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## ester (25 June 2014)

10% is redic! 

Also very few people know how much their horse actually weighs or should weigh.. 

I got a bit heavy for my lad (and for me) last summer and did look a bit so.. have lost weight since and still working on it but acquisition of muscle probably hasn't helped! Percentage wise we'd be pushing the higher end I guess but 10% would mean only a 7 stone person could ride something of his sort of size (14.2 chunky welsh D) he'd soon take advantage of that!


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## Beausmate (25 June 2014)

jemima*askin said:



			Here we go: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/2012/athletes/2a1c9110-880b-4647-a3b4-7104b7c6c1f9

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Well, I wouldn't let any of that lot on my 14.2 middle/heavy cob.  They're all over 10% of his healthy weight.


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## bluedanube (25 June 2014)

Goldenstar said:



			OMG you can google top riders weights , another reason to be thankful I am not that talented .
		
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And Carl Hester was 81kg at last Olympics... Guess that's why he didn't win..not the 'optimum weight' .. ;-)


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## TheresaW (25 June 2014)

DragonSlayer said:



			Why do you feel the need to post pictures of you and your horse to justify you riding them?
		
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I didn't post my pic to justify riding him, whether I am to heavy for him or not, I feel like I am at the moment, so just get on now and again.  One day I will be having a good blast on him on the stubble fields, or he will be galloping off without me 

I posted more to show that it is possible to get the weight off if you really want to, I'm getting there.  Haven't really got any pics of me riding when I was really overweight, this is the only one I can find. 
Me on the right.






Looking at the 2 photos now, I don't think I look that much smaller! There is about 3st between pics!


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## Magicmillbrook (25 June 2014)

At a show last month my non horsey OH was watching a short but extremely fat lady getting on her TB, we had already seen her puffing round in the in hand class so could see she was unfit.  As she heaved herself on there were 3 people trying to holding the horse still, his ears were back and his tail was twitching.  as she thumped down into he saddle his back dropped and his head went up.  My OH said 'that woman is way too heavy for that horse, surely? He doesn't look happy'. I have no idea what she weighed, what the horse weighed or what the percentage ratio was, but if a non rider can see it why couldn't the owner?  I wonder if some of the obese riders are in denial?  Perhaps its a mental issue as well as a physical one.  I would also like to reiterate what others have said, the issue is with seriously obese people, not those who are a stone or two over their ideal.


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## el_Snowflakes (25 June 2014)

I believe the OP is concerned that the rider is too heavy for the horse not too heavy in regards to anything else? Correct me if I'm wrong OP! It is very possible to be too heavy for a horse without being overweight from a medical point of view!


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## LessThanPerfect (25 June 2014)

Please also bear in mind that people can be overweight due to glandular or other endocrine issues and will find it almost impossible to lose the weight. 
I'm not saying they should be riding but the comments along the lines of"just lose weight" are not very helpful in those circumstances. My mother, auntie, three out of 4 grandparents and now my sister were all obese through thyroid problems and I have seen how all their efforts to lose weight came to nothing. It isn't always possible to lose weight through diet and exercise.
None of them ride by the way


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## ozpoz (25 June 2014)

Magicmillbrook said:



			At a show last month my non horsey OH was watching a short but extremely fat lady getting on her TB, we had already seen her puffing round in the in hand class so could see she was unfit.  As she heaved herself on there were 3 people trying to holding the horse still, his ears were back and his tail was twitching.  as she thumped down into he saddle his back dropped and his head went up.  My OH said 'that woman is way too heavy for that horse, surely? He doesn't look happy'. I have no idea what she weighed, what the horse weighed or what the percentage ratio was, but if a non rider can see it why couldn't the owner?  I wonder if some of the obese riders are in denial?  Perhaps its a mental issue as well as a physical one.  I would also like to reiterate what others have said, the issue is with seriously obese people, not those who are a stone or two over their ideal.
		
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If a horse is in obvious discomfort like this, and needs to be held down to allow the rider to mount, it is cruelty, no less, in my eyes. 
The thing is, this isn't uncommon, but for some reason we close our eyes and say and do nothing, for fear of giving offence. : (


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## brighthair (25 June 2014)

In a way I hate these threads. I weigh a lot. I also exercise a lot. So when people say "eat less, move more" I physically can't move any more than I already do. Am very conscious of which horses I get on, and I'm over the weight limit for the majority of riding schools
I have lost some weight by low carving but have very much hit either a plateau or my natural weight. Built wih huge wrists and shoulders and massive amounts of muscle. My bone structure alone will never be smaller than a 12/14
This is me at the minute (after weight loss) and riding pics are in my sig (before and during)

http://instagram.com/p/ooDLC5NdyP/


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## alainax (25 June 2014)

Magicmillbrook said:



			I would also like to reiterate what others have said, the issue is with seriously obese people, not those who are a stone or two over their ideal.
		
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However, that is contradictory. Someone at 5ft 1inch, and 14.5 stone, isn't just overweight or obese, they are "severely" "clinically" or "morbidly" obese. However, there are many horses who can carry this weight just fine. And there are many who are in this obese category who are quite fit! If that person loses 2 stone, they will no longer be obese.

Then we start tho whole BMI is pants debate  ( I quite agree, I prefer the WH ratio personally  ) 

But yes, with regards to the TB in your example,  if the horse was telling her it wasn't right, she should have been listening.


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## gembear (25 June 2014)

As someone said, this issue will only continue due to the fact as a nation we are getting unhealthily overweight (riding and non-riding people). It just seems to get accepted as the norm.


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## JFTDWS (25 June 2014)

brighthair said:



			I have lost some weight by low carving but have very much hit either a plateau or my natural weight.
		
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Low carving sounds like a rather drastic approach to weight loss :eek3:


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## Auslander (25 June 2014)

JFTD said:



			Low carving sounds like a rather drastic approach to weight loss :eek3:
		
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Easier than dieting - someone pass me a carving knife!


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## JFTDWS (25 June 2014)

Auslander said:



			Easier than dieting - someone pass me a carving knife!
		
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I prefer budget liposuction with the dyson myself...


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## brighthair (25 June 2014)

Oops!!! If only it was that easy... #passmetheknife
Stupid autocorrect


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## Goldenstar (25 June 2014)

JFTD said:



			I prefer budget liposuction with the dyson myself...
		
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That's why mine is bust not sure the cyclone technology is  up to it .
Perhaps carving would be simpler less complication


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## Cinnamontoast (25 June 2014)

See, this is why I love HHO, we're just brilliant at recycling the same topic over and over again!



Auslander said:








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Funny, I always thought you were taller 



Auslander said:



			My son is 6"0 and built like a brick outhouse, and I can (just) give him a piggy back (although, I can't cope with him mounting from the ground, which backs up my thing about always using a mounting block!). If he sits there making no effort to support himself, I can't move with him on my back. If he sits tall and uses his core to hold himself, I can move under him. He feels different when he's making an effort to carry himself - still heavy, but easier to carry. i know this because I just carried out an experiment. I may have given myself a hernia though...
		
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And this is also why I love HHO! People undergoing traumas to prove a point and really checking! 

As a relevant aside, weigh your saddle: I was horrified to find my allegedly lightweight one weighs a stone with stirrups. 

I don't ride now, I'm way too heavy for the cob boy. I'm sticking with the 20% max for even walking.


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## Auslander (25 June 2014)

cinnamontoast said:



			Funny, I always thought you were taller 

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Don't tell anyone, but I'm 4'11, and Alf is 13.2hh!


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## Noodles_3 (25 June 2014)

I think the % weight ratio thingy isn't the most reliable source to go by! Having watched the videos of the two morbidly obese people though (One on the cob and the more sickening one on the chestnut) it has really laid funny with me. Makes me feel sick. I'm not one for weight bashing but why do they feel like they need to put a horse through that? The girl on the cob rode 'lighter' but I still believe she shouldn't be riding her horse until she loses some weight. As lovely as she may be in person. Sorry  

When I clicked those videos on youtube, underneath there were links to other videos one looked like a morbidly obese woman squashing a white Shetland. Didn't even click that, id be too outraged.


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## Cinnamontoast (25 June 2014)

Auslander said:



			Don't tell anyone, but I'm 4'11, and Alf is 13.2hh!
		
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Jealous!! I always wanted to be petite


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