# Which Gun Dog breed to choose?



## huntingsox (18 April 2013)

Hello, I am hoping for some help in deciding which type of gun dog to get. It is going to be a present for my boyfriend, well really a present for my self  but he will be working the dog on his family shoot. 

I grew up with GSP's and although they are great I think I want something maybe slightly different, maybe just a different type of pointer? Or to go for the classic lab? I'm not particularly a fan of Spaniels having had a not very nice experience with a pair of them, and I do prefer the shorter coated breeds? We are both really active, and both experienced with dogs, I currently have a small JR type terrier who gets on well with all types of dogs.

To anyone who has read this far thank you and any ideas on what breed to choose are appreciated. I wouldn't be adverse to a cross breed like lab x springer if they were still from working lines.

Thank You


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## Clodagh (18 April 2013)

From a trainability point of view I would say lab. They say labs are born half trained and spaniels die half trained!
All the GSPs I have seen have been mad as hatters and usually about 3 drives away from where they are meant to be. Labradors are common for a reason.


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## huntingsox (18 April 2013)

Thank you, our pointers were completely loopy till about 5 when they started to calm down!! I do love labs so will start to try to find one from a working line.


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## Worldiscomplete (18 April 2013)

I have two Hungarian Vizsla's and they are a wonderful breed. They are incredibly intelligent and very easy to train but they get bored easily so you have to be one step ahead most of the time. They are a sensitive breed and sulk at a cross word ! I haven't laughed so much with a dog and neither have I been so frustrated - the laughs out weigh the frustration however. Given you've had GSP's before you know that the HPR breeds aren't great in a beating line (the spaniels will whip in and ruin the point) however, I know a lot of Vizzie owners who pick up with their dogs - I have yet to master this and its work in progress; though mine are still young(ish) 3 yr old and 10 months old.

There is a great community of Vizzie owners on FB and we organise get togethers where we all meet for walks and end up in a pub! You should see the look on people's faces when they bump into us and about 30 ginger nuts on a Viz Whizz; its worth it just for the look on their faces!!

If you'd like any more information on them, PM me and I'd be happy to help. Good luck deciding and whatever you choose will no doubt suit you guys perfectly.


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## PorkChop (18 April 2013)

There is a reason 99% of shooting people have a spaniel or a lab.  Unless you have an affinity with a vizla or a pointer for an example I would steer clear.  Also I have only seen a couple of crosses actually working.

The only thing I would say in a spaniels favour is that they can both beat and pick-up, so they are more versatile, and you can get them with very short coats.

However it does sound like you are liking the idea of a lab more, and a lot of the labs I see out shooting are lovely smaller athletic types.


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## Alec Swan (18 April 2013)

LJR said:



			There is a reason 99% of shooting people have a spaniel or a lab.  

............
		
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I shoot a fair bit,  and you're right,  it's very rarely that I see anything other than a Labrador or a Springer,  with the odd Cocker chucked in for good measure.  I love the temperaments of the HPRs,  but in truth,  I've never actually seen one which I'd want as a shooting companion. (My apologies to the fans of them,  but that's my experience of them).

If the bulk of your bf's shooting is walked up,  then get a spaniel.  If the bulk of his shooting is driven,  then get a Labrador.  In my experience,  when Labradors are used in the beating line,  and when they're allowed to hunt live game,  discipline and control go out of the window.  It isn't what they're bred for,  it's that simple.  Labradors have been developed and bred to retrieve game which their handler can't find for himself.

Spaniels,  on the other hand,  if they're properly trained,  and kept within 25 yards,  at ALL times,  then they can and will hunt and retrieve,  and do both jobs well.  

Alec.


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## Cinnamontoast (18 April 2013)

Just started gun dog training, very late with my two rising three year old springers. It's made an absolute world of difference to their behaviour and focus. Don't dismiss spaniels but do research your lines. I think Zak thinks he's an HPR


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## huntingsox (18 April 2013)

Thanks everyone, I got bitten by a spaniel when I was little and have always been wary of them, I know that it was just one spaniel and have since met loads which have been lovely, Cinnamon Toast yours is gorgeous, but it has put me off owning one.

My boyfriends family shoot is more driven shooting, and I think this post has helped me decide that really my heart is probably set on a Labrador.  Thank you every one


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## devonlass (18 April 2013)

Well I'll tell you what you what not to get if you want something even slightly trainable or obedient,don't get an Irish Setter lol.Although they are easy on the eye (can you tell I'm shallow lol).

On the subject of pointers,have you considered the english pointer?? I've not had any experience with german ones,but had a lovely orange and white english pointer and am determined to have another one day.Just not while I have my setter,no energy for another with him around

No idea about training them for shooting,maybe they would be as hopeless as the GSP's,but as overall working companions I think english pointers are quite well rated??


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## noodle_ (18 April 2013)

i know you said no spaniels...but i have a chocolate working cocker spaniel and he is brilliant!!

loyal, intelligent and brilliant nature!

its how you bring them up and train them imo


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## Dry Rot (19 April 2013)

I think someone ought to advise the OP to at least consult with her OH before buying him a surprise gundog that turns out to be totally unsuitable for the type of shooting he enjoys!

It makes me flinch to see pointers and setters at a driven or walked up shoot because they are totally unsuitable and need to be kept permanently on the lead! Whatever you do, don't ever buy a dog because it looks pretty! They deserve better than that.

A friend of mine once took on a dog that his bank manager wanted rid of. As the dog started worrying sheep, I suspect that was the reason the bank manager got rid of it! But the poor new oner was then stuck. He could not get rid of the dog for fear of upsetting his bank manager and he did not want to upset the bank manager because of his overdraft....


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## Moody-Mare (19 April 2013)

We have a Lab, she is a superstar at the shooting! 
Also OH bought me a lab X Pointer for my Christmas who one day is supposed to be his gundog.. I think she'll be coming to the yard with me and he can go shooting!  She's wild, looks quite scoobydoo-ish.. very smart, too smart! We shall see..


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## Toffee44 (19 April 2013)

Have a springer x lab amazing dog. Has been out this season and been fantastic he's 6yo wish I has him from pup I think he would have been amazing top quality gundog if steadiness was drilled from a young age. (He's very spanielish but has the drive to retrieve)

My next dog will be a springer I'm lucky as I know people who breed and can see previous litters in the field and at home. 

How about a cocker? Not as timid as a springer but still a brilliant working dog and pet.


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## Toffee44 (19 April 2013)

I also know someone who has just put dog to bitch for Labrador x springer both working dogs but I think he already has a list of wanters which is why doing a second litter.


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## Maesfen (19 April 2013)

If you're thinking about spaniels then do look at the Sussex and the Clumber types.  The ones I've known have been megastars for working with lovely natures as family dogs too.  
Lab's are two a penny, have something different!

http://www.sussexspaniels.org.uk/
http://www.clumberspanielclub.co.uk/home/home_page.html
http://workingclumber.co.uk/


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## Jackpotsstud (19 April 2013)

Maesfen said:



			If you're thinking about spaniels then do look at the Sussex and the Clumber types.  The ones I've known have been megastars for working with lovely natures as family dogs too.  
Lab's are two a penny, have something different!

http://www.sussexspaniels.org.uk/
http://www.clumberspanielclub.co.uk/home/home_page.html
http://workingclumber.co.uk/

Click to expand...

I would second the suggestion of looking at Clumbers.  They are fantastic, loyal fun dogs.  Sophie, who we bred, has a great brain and would be a great worker (we just don't have the time to actually work her).  We currently have a 9 week old puppy from our last litter and he is proving the easiest thing to train.  They are just such fun to have round the yard!

Just to show how cute they are - Sophie and Carter enjoying a brother/sister moment!


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## ThreeTB's (19 April 2013)

Nobody's mentioned flatcoated retrievers yet - I have 2 and they are just fantastic dogs! Although we only do training with ours, plenty of their relatives work on shoots and do well at working tests.


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## Maesfen (19 April 2013)

Looking at that pic it makes me want one myself and I'm a lurcher fan!


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## Clodagh (20 April 2013)

Our lab is used for both walked up and peg shooting and she does both beautifully. She won't pile in a bramble clump like a spaniel but her stance and tail wil ltell you if there is one in there. (Pheasant, not spaniel!).
I don't know when you are looking for, OP, but our bitches sister is hopefully having a litter later in the year. (Herts).
(we aren't the breeders)


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## Crugeran Celt (20 April 2013)

Springer, Springer, Springer, love them although must say that photograph Jackpotsstud is gorgeous!


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## Echo24 (20 April 2013)

What about flat coat retrievers? They HPR, but can be nutty, or spinones, which are generally more laid back.


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## s4sugar (20 April 2013)

For a present take your BF to one of the Game fairs where they have breed booths. 
You can then make an informed choice together.


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## ann-jen (20 April 2013)

I have a vizsla and an english pointer.... although neither of them work, they are just pets. 
The reason for posting was I think you said you would consider a different type of pointer and I just wanted to mention that the englishes are not great at retrieving. At least mine isn't. She looks quizzically at the vizsla when we are playing fetch like he is insane for fetching something I have thrown away. I have been told this is not unusual for the breed. I've also been told if you can get one to retrieve they make great dogs for field trials as they are soooo fast and this is definitely the case.... she leaves my friends greyhound standing!!! But if you intend getting one for shooting including picking up I don't think they'd be ideal. She has also been quite hard to train comparatively to the vizsla who is so clever and picks things up immediately.... but I didn't get her as a pup so things might have been different if she got more training at an early age. She is however the most soppy and loving dog you could meet.... just not the sharpest tool in the box bless her!


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## willhegofirst (20 April 2013)

If you want something a bit different, how about an Italian Spinone, great temperament, and if you get a working line, are a great HPR gun dog. We know someone who worked one with a hawk.


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## RunToEarth (22 April 2013)

We have two working Springers at parents - mother and daughter both have very trainable attitudes and daughter is growing up to be a shadow of her mother.  

I live with my OH now and he has kept toying with the idea of getting another working dog now his Springer is retired. He previously had a flat coated retriever with a taste for seat belts and hydrhalic pipes. Apparently lovely working dog but cost thousands during her spare time! I had wanted a GSP but due to the type of shooting we will be doing we are now looking at Golden Retrievers. I've never had one before, and to be fair haven't seen many working, but they strike me as an incredibly loyal and steady dog. 

Personally, every single time - Springer, they are my favourites and I love ours  





and to readdress the balance, the best tool to have on a duck shoot was Teal, our old yellow lab:


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## PorkChop (22 April 2013)

Runtoearth - love your spaniels


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## gunnergundog (22 April 2013)

ann-jen said:



			I have a vizsla and an english pointer.... although neither of them work, they are just pets. 
The reason for posting was I think you said you would consider a different type of pointer and I just wanted to mention that the englishes are not great at retrieving. At least mine isn't.
		
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That's because pointers are not required to or bred to retrieve!  It's not part of their job description;  unlike the Viz, they are NOT HPR!


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## gunnergundog (22 April 2013)

To the OP.....whilst I empathise with your intentions, I cannot condone anyone purchasing a pup for someone else. It is NOT just a matter of identifying the correct breed;  there is always so much variation within a litter that IMO it MUST be the main person who is going to work and train the pup that selects it.

Also, IMO the HPR breeds have no place on the majority of shoots.  Unless you are rough shooting or working on the moors in Scotland (or similar), forget them!

I can't remember where I read it, but something I read that struck a chord with me....'you wouldn't buy a car if you didn't have a road to drive it on, so don't buy a HPR unless you have the land to work it on AS THE BREED WAS INTENDED TO WORK!'


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## ann-jen (22 April 2013)

Thanks for pointing out that pointers are bred to point. Who'd have thought  I mentioned they don't retrieve as someone suggested them to the OPas the she wanted an another pointer but not another GSP and an English would not do the job her OH wanted. 
And having owned vizslas all my life and not owning my own country estate I am clearly a very bad owner


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## gunnergundog (23 April 2013)

ann-jen said:



			Thanks for pointing out that pointers are bred to point. Who'd have thought 

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Perhaps a little bit more care and attention is required when reading posts?   I make NO mention whatsoever of pointers pointing....I merely state the reason why your pointer does not retrieve! 

_*That's because pointers are not required to or bred to retrieve! It's not part of their job description; unlike the Viz, they are NOT HPR!*_

Your powers of logical deduction astound me.....not quite sure how you make this quantum leap:
_And having owned vizslas all my life and not owning my own country estate I am clearly a very bad owner  _ However, if that's how you feel, then so be it.


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## Dotty123 (23 April 2013)

As it's for a present I think your boyfriend should choose the breed and the puppy, but as the dog is for both of you then you both should have an input.
I wouldn't want someone choosing a breed for me even if the intentions are good.


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## _jac_ (23 April 2013)

I have to say I would not allow one of my pups to go to someone choosing a dog for their partner, I insist the whole family meet me and my dogs to go through my thorough grilling process 

I have 3 flatcoats, 2 pick up and the pup will work and do working tests. I also have a cocker, who does not work as he is a noisy devil! 

I am a flatcoat girl at heart, but they are not for everyone and a very slow maturing breed. 

Whatever breed you choose please look into them thoroughly and the health testing for the breed, as all will have their own health issues.


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## ann-jen (23 April 2013)

Gunnergundog thanks. My powers off logic work just fine.  As do your powers if being patronising. Cheers


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