# Shocked at H+H advice not to wear too much hi-viz



## mtj (17 May 2012)

Today's H+H has an article on mollycoddling horses.  Most is about overfeeding/rugging/clipping etc., but it also implies that wearing more than a hi-viz tabard is excessive.

Bit shocked to be honest.  Thought the recommendation was for some hi viz on both horse and rider.

What do you think?


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## POLLDARK (17 May 2012)

With todays traffic & speeds you need to be seen so hi viz is a must. It's a bit like chocolate, is there ever too much. Though I prefer a bit of moderation, safety first.


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## ThePony (17 May 2012)

Haven't read the article, but it seems rather a stupid idea!

Harm can be caused to the horse by over feeding/over rugging etc, no harm can be caused to anyone by wearing alot of high viz (not using the word excessive or 'over' as I pretty much don't think it is possible!). 

The more high viz worn means other road users spot you more quickly. Ok, so if it hinders movement or causes a problem because there is so much then I guess it could become a safety prob, pretty unlikely though? I would consider some high viz on both the horse and rider would be useful, not excessive. We always go out inteding to stick with the horse, but I think we all know that doesn't always happen, both parties need to be clearly spotted!!


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## katie_southwest (17 May 2012)

No such thing as too much Hi Viz in my opinion  I have an array of coats, tabards and leg wraps


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## humblepie (17 May 2012)

Must admit I agreed with most of it but far rather too much hi viz than not enough.


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## PandorasJar (17 May 2012)

mtj said:



			Today's H+H has an article on mollycoddling horses.  Most is about overfeeding/rugging/clipping etc., but it also implies that wearing more than a hi-viz tabard is excessive.

Bit shocked to be honest.  Thought the recommendation was for some hi viz on both horse and rider.

What do you think?
		
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Can you provide a link to the article. I agree with most, but would definitely disagree with too much hi-viz, that isn't mollycoddling, that's taking safety seriously

Pan


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## monkeybum13 (17 May 2012)

Haven't read the article, might try and nab someones copy and have a read!

Saying that wearing more than a tabard is mollycoddling that is utther tosh.


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## mtj (17 May 2012)

The article is in the magazine.

Actual quote " A hi-viz vest may be prudent for roadwork, but not the Bertie Bassett levels of neon seen on some horses and riders"


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## xspiralx (17 May 2012)

What does it actually say? Difficult to comment without the context or the actual wording of the statement.


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## Double_choc_lab (17 May 2012)

Be interesting to know who wrote the article and whether they have thousands of acres of private land over which to ride.  Oh but don't fall off and require an air ambulance coz they wont spot you or the horse


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## catdragon (17 May 2012)

If it gets you and your horse seen sooner and avoids any nasty occurences/injuries or worse then there's no such thing as too much in my book...


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## Jesstickle (17 May 2012)

mtj said:



			The article is in the magazine.

Actual quote " A hi-viz vest may be prudent for roadwork, but not the Bertie Bassett levels of neon seen on some horses and riders"
		
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Who wrote it? If it's some columnists  opinion then it's someone's opinion. If it's H&Hs official stance on it I am actually pretty horrified.


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## BlairandAzria (17 May 2012)

On phone so can't quote, but agree with Jesstickle^^^ completely, if that's the official line I'm horrified


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## PandorasJar (17 May 2012)

mtj said:



			The article is in the magazine.

Actual quote " A hi-viz vest may be prudent for roadwork, but not the Bertie Bassett levels of neon seen on some horses and riders"
		
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I hope someone from H+H is reading this.

Very irresponsible thing to post in an article. Safety should come first and foremost.

Pan


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## monkeybum13 (17 May 2012)

If it is the official stance on it I can imagine HH will be receiving a few letters of complaint!


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## Leg_end (17 May 2012)

catdragon said:



			If it gets you and your horse seen sooner and avoids any nasty occurences/injuries or worse then there's no such thing as too much in my book...
		
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Agreed! My hubby takes the mickey out of me as I'm very pro hi viz and will never hack out without it. I've even told someone I won't hack out with them unless they wear it!!


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## Molasses (17 May 2012)

Wow how helpful
As if it wasnt hard enough to convince people to wear it already. I thought the advice was lots of high-viz and if possible combination of colours due to some shades of high-viz working better in certain light conditions? 

Ive got an orange breastplate, yellow jacket, pink brushing boots.
That must make me a laughing stock. Course Ill be laughing last when they get run over and Im trotting over the bloodstains on the road.
Idiot comment


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## Kallibear (17 May 2012)

If it saves my horses life (or mine), there is no such thing as 'too much' hi-viz. 

I personally think it should be a legal requirement for riders (horse and cyclists) to wear hiviz on the roads. Some insurance companies have very sensibly got it in one of their clauses.


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## MissMistletoe (17 May 2012)

That is stupid!

Just when the message was starting to get across to wear something hi-viz out hacking.....


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## tickety_boo (17 May 2012)

jesstickle said:



			If it's H&Hs official stance on it I am actually pretty horrified.
		
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This. And if it is I would expect a backlash.
The only thing I have found to slow traffic down is to wear lots of hi-viz AND a very bright but very small cycle light clipped onto my back. It is SO bright for such a small thing. It was £4 on ebay so I bought 4 so that my daughter and I have a spare one each. Massive improvement in attitude of other road users since I've been wearing it. But I would still never go on the roads without the rest of the hi-viz and this quote has made me really cross.


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## Elsbells (17 May 2012)

That's madness!!!

There is a lot of horsey snobbery out there unfortunatly. Apparently, if you keep your non competeing horse on a DIY livery and you also wear hi-viz on the roads, you can't ride.

We all know that one.


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## Doogal (17 May 2012)

Elsbells said:



			That's madness!!!

There is a lot of horsey snobbery out there unfortunatly. Apparently, if you keep your non competeing horse on a DIY livery and you also wear hi-viz on the roads, you can't ride.

We all know that one.

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lol


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## MissChaos (17 May 2012)

Was expecting to see the Bertie-Bassett line in quotation marks from an interviewed party. No, they are the words of article author Charlotte Mackaness.

Feature is subtitled 'Mollycoddling', title is 'Are we becoming a nation of pansies?' and the sub finishes '... and explains how to avoid joining the pansy ranks.'

FGS, H&H. How absolutely bloody backwards can you be? Yes, *some* points are prudent but to associate a safety aspect with being a wimp/pansy/having no idea? 

Much rather look like a *literal* pansy because of hi-vis than because I got squished into different colours. What a jumped-up, thoughtless and arrogant sentiment. When did we go back 20 years? Particular shame also because there is some good sense in the rest of the piece.


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## MissChaos (17 May 2012)

Also, is it just me (perhaps I have been semi-blinded by my Polite vest) but does point six somewhat contradict itself?


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## tickety_boo (17 May 2012)

MissChaos said:



			but to associate a safety aspect with being a wimp/pansy/having no idea? 
QUOTE]

I shall get my daughter to remove her BP and hat on saturday at her PC XC rally as I would hate for her to feel she's being mollycoddled, or being a wimp.

I wouldn't. But it amounts to the same thing.

And I also won't let her hack out without being lit up like Berti Basset as I would like her to outlive me if possible.

So call her names if you have to Ms Mackaness. If it makes you feel better.
		
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## Buds_mum (17 May 2012)

Hey guys lets face it if your a pony patting, happy hacker who wears hi viz you just don't fit into the upper ranks of H+H 

I do however think that H+H will find the vast amount of their readers are 'pansies' who molly coddle their pet ponies. I for one certainly am. And me and my boy look like a christmas tree when we hack. So what.

Idiot, thoughtless comment. Too much like trying to fit into the peer groups at school, wearing hi viz is like taking a lunch box


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## mashnut (17 May 2012)

This is INSANE! I'm the only one I've seen on my yard that uses hi-vis. You need more than a tabard on single track country roads!
On a side note... My motorbike instructor told me yesterday that as of end of this year/next year that hi-vis is becoming compulsory for motorbikes....
So if it can be compulsory for bikers, why can't it become compulsory for riders/cyclists?


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## Lucyad (17 May 2012)

How bizzare and ill thought out!  You would think that, even if one article author has rather 'strange' opinions, there would be some editorial control (particularly if a proper article, not a comment column).


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## monkeybum13 (17 May 2012)

I don't get this whole 'its only happy hackers that wear hi viz idea'.

In my local area I would say it is the opposite tbh, its the people who compete who wear hi viz and 'happy hackers' are less likely to wear it in my area.


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## Meowy Catkin (17 May 2012)

I know that we've all seen this photo before, but it really does show that Hi viz works.







Charlotte Mackaness is of course welcome to her opinion. It is my opinion that her attitude to Hi viz is idiotic.


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## mtj (17 May 2012)

The quote was taken from a section of the article dealing with the importance of hacking.

The full paragraph:
"A hi-viz vest may be prudent for roadwork, but not the Bertie Bassett levels of neon seen on some Horses and riders.  Undoubtedly, traffic is a consideration.  While volume and the shortage of off-road hacking is worse around London and big cities, winding rural roads can be as treacherous if one meets a wannabe rally driver."


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## Ceris Comet (17 May 2012)

Can't believe I've just read that . It's appalling.


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## vallin (17 May 2012)

Who ever she is she needs to get real. As far as I can see hi-viz (unless badly fitted, and even then...) is unlikely to do any harm, not wearing it on the other hand!


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## Shantara (17 May 2012)

My goodness!
I don't think you can ever have enough. I think I'd paint Ned hi-viz if I could.

We have:
Hat band
Sheet
Polite tabbard 
Noseband and browband covers
Front boot covers
Tail guard
Breast plate
Bandages (not used these yet, hopefully soon!)

I may be over doing it, but if it helps a car see me a few seconds earlier or a helicopter spot me if I fall off, then I don't care.


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## true dragon (17 May 2012)

Buds_mum said:



Hey guys lets face it if your a pony patting, happy hacker who wears hi viz you just don't fit into the upper ranks of H+H 

I do however think that H+H will find the vast amount of their readers are 'pansies' who molly coddle their pet ponies. I for one certainly am. And me and my boy look like a christmas tree when we hack. So what.

Idiot, thoughtless comment. Too much like trying to fit into the peer groups at school, wearing hi viz is like taking a lunch box 

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this^^

both horse and rider should wear hi viz.  what if your thrown off and your horse had no hiviz on? he could run off down the road and be hit by a vehicle at the best of times, but especially so if its not got the minimum of 4 hi viz leg bands. (mine wears these plus bridle attachments and a hi viz martingale, I wear a tabard and hat band)


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## starryeyed (17 May 2012)

That's completely insane! Rather my horse was lit up like a christmas tree than stuck on the bonnet of someone's car!


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## Ceris Comet (17 May 2012)

Change the title of this thread to " Shocked at H&H advice not to wear too much hi viz " and see it makes it to top forum threads next issue !


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## Shantara (17 May 2012)

Ceris Comet said:



			Change the title of this thread to " Shocked at H&H advice not to wear too much hi viz " and see it makes it to top forum threads next issue !
		
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Agree, I thought it was going to be OP asking whether she was wearing too much. H&H should do an article next month about road safety to make up for it.
Horse and Rider (I think) mentioned wearing hi-viz is a must when hacking.


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## mtj (17 May 2012)

Happy to change the title if someone will please explain how this is done.


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## Ceris Comet (17 May 2012)

Anyone help with this ?


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## Meowy Catkin (17 May 2012)

I think that you can only edit for the first few minutes after a thread has been posted. Maybe a request to Fatty would be the only option now?


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## Hedgewitch13 (17 May 2012)

Well that 'reporter' women is a bit of a **** isn't she? Lets hope she doesn't ever get mown down by a car then for not being visible - if she even rides. Thank god I've never bought the mag - would hate to be contributing to the wages of idiots like her.

ETS H&H wouldn't have the balls to highlight this stupid woman's comments as being... well just that... stupid!


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## Silmarillion (17 May 2012)

It's lovely to see HHO actually all agreeing for once! Especially over something like this!

What a stupid thing to say out loud, let alone print in a highly respected equestrian publication. Ridiculous. I hope H&H can offer something in the next issue to point out that it was a silly thing to say, and of course wearing as much hi-viz as possible is the best idea. There are already too many people out there who don't wear it for a fashion statement - I'd wear it to make one!


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## mtj (17 May 2012)

I've sent TFC a message asking for the title to be changed, so lets see....


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## Ceris Comet (17 May 2012)

I doubt you'll get much joy there as he won't want to rock the boat with H&H.


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## Coop (17 May 2012)

As someone who has been hit by a 'rally driver' out hacking down a country lane, i do 'consider the traffic' when putting on my Hi Viz before I ride.

Terrible comment to make. Complaint letter to compose. Champagne to win.


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## Ceris Comet (17 May 2012)

Definitely needs an en masse response by all forum users.
Simply shocking


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## Shantara (17 May 2012)

Yay! Title has been changed  

My Dad made an interesting point "Sometimes people just don't want to see you" Which I think is true. If you're going to get hit, you're going to get hit. 
He's not saying we shouldn't wear it, he goes out like a lightbulb when he goes biking and strongly disagrees with the article, but I'm sure it's true that some people don't care to see others. (Having had someone pull out on me whilst driving, as I was going around a round about. They looked me directly in the eye!)

Still, if my hi-viz makes any difference, I'll be pleased.


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## Crazy_cat_lady (17 May 2012)

The roads are so dangerous now I dont think there can be too much unless its flapping in the breeze.

I currently have at least a tabbard and leg wraps and also have a pink exercise sheet in the winter.

The traffic is so fast now that the earliest people can see you the better.


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## mtj (17 May 2012)

Thank you to TFC for changing the title as requested.


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## Ceris Comet (17 May 2012)

I take back my words Mr Fatty !


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## lachlanandmarcus (17 May 2012)

Nah said:



			Yay! Title has been changed  

My Dad made an interesting point "Sometimes people just don't want to see you" Which I think is true. If you're going to get hit, you're going to get hit. 
He's not saying we shouldn't wear it, he goes out like a lightbulb when he goes biking and strongly disagrees with the article, but I'm sure it's true that some people don't care to see others. (Having had someone pull out on me whilst driving, as I was going around a round about. They looked me directly in the eye!)

Still, if my hi-viz makes any difference, I'll be pleased.
		
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But...... at least if that is their approach (and I agree with you)  then when they do hit you they will not be nearly as easily claim they didnt see you and wriggle out of the criminal and civil legal consequences. Which for me, is at least part of why I never go out without it.


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## Crazy_cat_lady (17 May 2012)

Kallibear said:



			If it saves my horses life (or mine), there is no such thing as 'too much' hi-viz. 

I personally think it should be a legal requirement for riders (horse and cyclists) to wear hiviz on the roads. Some insurance companies have very sensibly got it in one of their clauses.
		
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Fully agree with this. Cyclists are often even harder to spot than horses.


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## Shantara (17 May 2012)

lachlanandmarcus said:



			But...... at least if that is their approach (and I agree with you)  then when they do hit you they will not be nearly as easily claim they didnt see you and wriggle out of the criminal and civil legal consequences. Which for me, is at least part of why I never go out without it.
		
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Yes, if the worst did happen, I'd like to have everything in my favour.


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## Ceris Comet (17 May 2012)

I used to get comments like " We can't miss you can we !"  To which I used to reply " That's the idea !"


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## M_G (17 May 2012)

I am shocked that the piece on Hi-vis past the editors final say. I hope the person who wrote it never has to ride on the road for their own and horses safety


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## lannerch (17 May 2012)

I agree with h&h you certainly can get too much hi viz!
A tabbed is usually enough anything more excessive and looks ridiculous to the motorist encouraging them not to take you seriously eg when clothed all over in high vid Barbie pink!
Those here that do it certainly get mocked by the neighbours ( non horsey ) and yes they do mollycoddle their horses!


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## TheSylv007 (17 May 2012)

What a snotty, snobby statement to make.  Obviously serious and proper riders go out without hi-viz and without hats or chinstraps because they are so accomplished and the rest of us are mere amateurs who don't have a clue because we are pansies.  What a pillock.


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## Ceris Comet (17 May 2012)

They probably only ride in a London park or an estate


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## Malibu_Stacy (17 May 2012)

Totally and utterly ridiculous - can't believe that anyone would be idiotic enough to (a) think that (b) print it!

new clique anyone?  'I rock out with the bertie basset look'?


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## Meowy Catkin (17 May 2012)

lannerch said:



			I agree with h&h you certainly can get too much hi viz!
A tabbed is usually enough anything more excessive and looks ridiculous to the motorist encouraging them not to take you seriously eg when clothed all over in high vid Barbie pink!
Those here that do it certainly get mocked by the neighbours ( non horsey ) and yes they do mollycoddle their horses!
		
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There's always one!


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## ABC (17 May 2012)

As everyone else has said, I'm not bothered if me and my horse look like bloomin' bananas when we're out hacking if it helps people to spot us! 

I'd rather look a bit silly, than be involved in a traffic accident. 

But hey ho, what do I know? I'm only a happy hacker


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## Ceris Comet (17 May 2012)

llannerch.... You are obviously joking !


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## ABC (17 May 2012)

lannerch said:



			I agree with h&h you certainly can get too much hi viz!
A tabbed is usually enough anything more excessive and looks ridiculous to the motorist encouraging them not to take you seriously eg when clothed all over in high vid Barbie pink!
Those here that do it certainly get mocked by the neighbours ( non horsey ) and yes they do mollycoddle their horses!
		
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No offence, but are you serious?!? 

It looks ridiculous? Who cares? If it prevents horses, riders and other road users being hurt or even killed on the road does it matter? 

I don't see how you can call it "mollycoddling" when in reality, it's common sense, and safety.


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## Ceris Comet (17 May 2012)

Let him/her have their say , at least they are helping this thread on its way to being one of the  " most popular forum threads " on next weeks edition


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## lannerch (17 May 2012)

Seriously it's over kill you ruin the effect motorists think your a joke and don't slow down!


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## Ceris Comet (17 May 2012)

Your the joke, but please keep posting so this thread says at the top of NL


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## Firewell (17 May 2012)

Article may have been written by someone who sits in their London office most days apart from the odd time they get to school their horse thats on full livery and hasn't ridden along a country road for a while!
To make fun of someone who wears a lot of high vis by calling it Bertie Basset is horrendous.
Roads are blimin dangerous now, cars speed around our country lanes and seeing a person on a horse a split second earlier could mean the difference between life or death.

My mum and I were hacking not long ago along a country lane that was lined by trees, it was a bright day but the lane was still quite dark and we had tabbards on (just tabbards). A car came towards us and wasn't slowing down, it was a single track road. We were waving our arms and at the last second the car stopped, the person wound down their window down apologising profusly and said they simply had not seen us!

Another incident a few years ago at our old yard. Riding along a road with tabbards on, a car came speeding up, didnt slow down, didnt even move over and went into my mums horse from behind. Luckily it was only the wing mirror that wacked my mums horse up the arse. We shouted at the driver, he stopped and got out and guess what... apparently he didnt even see us (he was quite old the driver!!).

I was even taught by my driving instructor when I learnt to drive to always put my lights on down single track lanes even in bright sunlight as it would give me an extra split second of someone seeing me to stop.

Ive even started thinking about flashing lights on my horse now to hack.


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## Shantara (17 May 2012)

lannerch said:



			Seriously it's over kill you ruin the effect motorists think your a joke and don't slow down!
		
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That's not the response I've had. Have you heard of SMIDSY? Sorry Mate I Didn't See You.
I don't care if I look silly (I think I look fabulous, by the way) but if it helps someone see me before they rear end me, then it's doing it's job.


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## ABC (17 May 2012)

lannerch said:



			Seriously it's over kill you ruin the effect motorists think your a joke and don't slow down!
		
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What Hi Vis do you/your horse wear then? I have a tabard, horse wears an exercise sheet and a breastplate. All the motorists I've encountered have always slowed down, but I'm interested to hear what you perceive to be "over kill"?


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## jaysh (17 May 2012)

I couldnt care less what i look like with ALL my fluorescent gear on, which is includes basically covering up most of the horse and myself with bright fluorescent gear!
What a bloody idiotic thing to say, people are only just getting over the "embarrasment" of wearing hi viz outfits and you get some stupid comment like that in a prolific horse magazine!


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## piebaldsparkle (17 May 2012)

lannerch said:



			Seriously it's over kill you ruin the effect motorists think your a joke and don't slow down!
		
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Happy to be a joke and IME motorist do slow down.  Not read the whole article and have no intention of paying to read such drivel.


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## Ceris Comet (17 May 2012)

Don't feed the troll


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## JulietteMinto (17 May 2012)

I think it's so important to be as visible as possible so hi viz on me and the horse, all the way here!


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## Firewell (17 May 2012)

ABC said:



			What Hi Vis do you/your horse wear then? I have a tabard, horse wears an exercise sheet and a breastplate. All the motorists I've encountered have always slowed down, but I'm interested to hear what you perceive to be "over kill"? 

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Probably anything that stops people from being killed and it being over .


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## Meowy Catkin (17 May 2012)

Reflective leg bands are brilliant, as the car's headlights really pick them up. A tabbard only, is just too high up as Firewell said. I personally like some Hi-viz on me and some on the horse, then if we ever do get parted, we can both be seen.

I know that many people think that they will never fall off their horse on a little potter around the lanes, but I have come across some pretty unusal stuff out hacking that is hard to bombproof for. The first was a steam engine on a single track lane, then there was the canoe/kyack that was being carried upside down by two people, whose heads were inside it. Then there was the car with a flat tyre (horrible noise) being chased at speed by a police car with full sirens and lights.


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## lannerch (17 May 2012)

I am not a troll I am not a new member just because because I dare to disagree ridiculous!
And how can I be a troll when even h&h agree with me !


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## Ceris Comet (17 May 2012)

Just keep on posting ! Our aim is to make this thread a " Thread of the week " in HH , and if they don't mention it , it will prove that they cherry pick the threads that put them in a good light. Thanks for supporting this thread


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## Shantara (17 May 2012)

lannerch said:



			I am not a troll I am not a new member just because because I dare to disagree ridiculous!
And how can I be a troll when even h&h agree with me !
		
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You don't have to be a new member to troll. On another website, a member with over 10,000 posts decided to become the nastiest troll I've ever met. 
For what it's worth, I don't think you're a troll. Just maybe misinformed about the effects of a lot of hi-viz? Perhaps it's different in your area, but for the most part, I get a lot of respect for looking like a lightbulb.


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## Burnttoast (17 May 2012)

If I'm on the roads I like something high up (for being seen over hedges etc), something low down and something on a moving part. Usually I'm off road and in the event of the horse going home on his own he doesn't have to cross any roads so I tend to just put something on me in case of needing the air ambulance...

I agree that 'calling names' is hardly likely to advance the cause of road safety... Not H&H's best move ever!


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## Queenbee (17 May 2012)

I am pretty damned appauled, whilst I agree with jesstickle, I can't believe that h&h would even include such an 'opinion' in their magazine. I'm also shocked at the wording 'may be prudent' implies that it is not a 'must have' but I'm sure I've heard somewhere that it is a requirement for insurance cover that you wear a reflective tabard on roads (I may well be wrong but I'm sure I remember it in a thread on here honks ago)


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## lannerch (17 May 2012)

Im not adverse to this being top thread either it's not personal just my opinion.


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## lannerch (17 May 2012)

Ps I do wear a tabbard myself, and I particularly like the polite ones however I do not see any need to embarrass myself and my horse by dressing us both head to toe in fluorescent pink!


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## Supertrooper (17 May 2012)

Very irresponsible, I'd much rather that someone had as many extra seconds as possible to see me and couldn't ever say that they didn't!


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## Ceris Comet (17 May 2012)

Just keep on posting then! Thank you !


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## quirky (17 May 2012)

I'm with lannerch on this, can't really see the point in having more than a tabbard.

I see the 'lit up like a Christmas tree' hi-vizers as being nervous riders, rightly or wrongly, who want to draw as much attention to themselves as possible as they can't cope with traffic coming past at even a reduced speed.


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## Ceris Comet (17 May 2012)

Will cancel my subscription if apology is not issued in next weeks H&H


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## Flame_ (17 May 2012)

Oh dear. H & H are a long way behind current ways of thinking in the horse world aren't they? 

Wearing hi-viz is just doing one of the few things we can do to reduce risks for ourselves and our horses, and its our responsibility to other road users to do what we can to make sure we can be seen easily.


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## Firewell (17 May 2012)

Faracat said:



			The first was a steam engine on a single track lane, then there was the canoe/kyack that was being carried upside down by two people, whose heads were inside it. Then there was the car with a flat tyre (horrible noise) being chased at speed by a police car with full sirens and lights.
		
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Oh the joys of hacking lol


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## Ceris Comet (17 May 2012)

Thanks quirky for keeping this thread going !


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## Supertrooper (17 May 2012)

Oh and I always wear a hi viz tabard if I'm riding on my own in field so someone could spot me if I fell off. I do always let someone know too!


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## Spiritedly (17 May 2012)

lannerch said:



			Ps I do wear a tabbard myself, and I particularly like the polite ones however I do not see any need to embarrass myself and my horse by dressing us both head to toe in fluorescent pink!
		
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I agree I hate the pink but would rather wear that than nothing and if bright pink encourages younger riders to wear safety gear than it can't be all bad can it?


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## Jesstickle (17 May 2012)

quirky said:



			I'm with lannerch on this, can't really see the point in having more than a tabbard.
		
Click to expand...

What if you fall off and the horse takes flight?

I don't believe you can't see the value in having something on the horse too quirky. I know you're a sensible one!

Can I put forward this example please?

I went for a hack round the fields with my friend. She had no hi vis on as we weren't even going on the roads. Horse ditched her and ran out on to a very busy road (main one into a city. If you wan't so see the photos I have of my hacking you'll see how potentially horrendous this could have been!)

She should have had some on and so should the bloody horse. He was nearly totalled!


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## lannerch (17 May 2012)

The lit up Christmas trees I know are indeed nervous riders good point quirky


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## Identityincrisis (17 May 2012)

lannerch said:



			Ps I do wear a tabbard myself, and I particularly like the polite ones however I do not see any need to embarrass myself and my horse by dressing us both head to toe in fluorescent pink!
		
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So you would rather your horse be 'embarrassed' by having his and your blood splattered all over him when a car hits you?? Unreal!

I have also had the comments of 'Ooo we can't miss you' by fellow riders to which I also reply 'that's kind of the point of hi viz'


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## monkeybum13 (17 May 2012)

For me it is essential that my horse wears hi viz too. I would never forgive myself if we parted company and something happened to her because drivers couldn't see her as I was the only one wearing hi viz. 

Riding a big bay people do not mock me when they see both me and my horse in hi viz, some think I am the police so pass extra carefully!


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## Ceris Comet (17 May 2012)

Hope you don't " die of embarrassment " due to not wearing hi-viz


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## lannerch (17 May 2012)

I don't go out riding to fall off.
Don't worry hiviz or no hiviz a motorist would not miss seeing my horse!


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## milliepops (17 May 2012)

Adding my 2p worth to keep the thread going 



Faracat said:



			I personally like some Hi-viz on me and some on the horse, then if we ever do get parted, we can both be seen.
		
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This is my approach too. I have reflective strips on my breastplate and 4 reflective boots on my horse, tabbard and hat band on me.  If the weather is particularly grotty then we have a yellow exercise sheet.  Hopefully she's visible from all angles


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## Murphs_Mum (17 May 2012)

I too am shocked that H+H would include anything in their magazine that is pretty much insulting to riders who are just trying to ensure safety for horse and rider.


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## monkeybum13 (17 May 2012)

lannerch said:



			I don't go out riding to fall off.
		
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I don't think anyone goes out to intentionally fall off


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## Jesstickle (17 May 2012)

lannerch said:



			I don't go out riding to fall off.
Don't worry hiviz or no hiviz a motorist would not miss seeing my horse!
		
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tbf, you live in the arse end of no where in wales. 

This is my hacking. You really don't think we should wear hi vis to ride up here


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## Ceris Comet (17 May 2012)

Jeep going lannerch ! Your doing a good job in keeping this thread alive


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## Firewell (17 May 2012)

Christmas tree! Imagine driving across this pair on this day down a country lane with no high vis on or just a grubby tabbard. Probably wouldn't even see them.







People may say high vis is just for novices but experienced riders bleed and break and die the same as novice riders. When a car breaks suddenly, looses control and skids because they havent seen you untill its too late, it doesnt matter if its a novice on a hairy cob or pippa funnell on an event horse, if your going to get hit, you'll get hit.


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## Shantara (17 May 2012)

lannerch said:



			The lit up Christmas trees I know are indeed nervous riders good point quirky 

Click to expand...

Rubbish! YO wears lots of hi-viz and she's the most confident horse woman I know. Nothing scares her. I'm not a nervous rider either, when I'm with a group at least. I must admit I do get a bit nervous when I'm alone, however.


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## Burnttoast (17 May 2012)

lannerch said:



			The lit up Christmas trees I know are indeed nervous riders good point quirky 

Click to expand...

No one has ever accused me of being a nervous rider  but I am probably one of those Christmas trees to which you refer... perhaps because the horses I ride are not my own and I would rather be able to say that I'd taken every precaution if I had to explain to the owner why their horse was on the bonnet of a car.

Being a competent non-nervous rider doesn't exempt you from potentially being the victim of an idiot driver.


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## monkeybum13 (17 May 2012)

Nah said:



			Rubbish! YO wears lots of hi-viz and she's the most confident horse woman I know. Nothing scares her. I'm not a nervous rider either, when I'm with a group at least. I must admit I do get a bit nervous when I'm alone, however.
		
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Like I said in a previous post around where I am it the 'competition riders' that wear more hi viz.
Maybe someone would like to got the local livery yard where the eventers and dressage riders wear hi viz and tell them they are nervous riders


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## Murphs_Mum (17 May 2012)

Firewell said:



			Christmas tree! Imagine driving across this pair on this day down a country lane with no high vis on or just a grubby tabbard. Probably wouldn't even see them.







People may say high vis is just for novices but experienced riders bleed and break and die the same as novice riders. When a car breaks suddenly, looses control and skids because they havent seen you untill its too late, it doesnt matter if its a novice on a hairy cob or pippa funnell on an event horse, if your going to get hit, you'll get hit.
		
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Think this photo shows it brilliantly, low winter sun, dark horse, take the hi vis off horse and rider and the risk levels increase dramatically.


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## Spiritedly (17 May 2012)

RoSPA's advice on visibility 

All riders should wear high visibility (fluorescent and reflective) garments when riding on the road. Fluorescent and reflective ankle bands and stirrup lights are particularly effective in attracting the attention of motorists. If possible, riders should use high visibility garments that conform to BS EN1150, a European Standard for high visibility garments for non-professional use. There is a standard for high visibility garments for professional use, BS EN471, which can also be used.

And the BHS advice

So if you have to ride out on the road, always wear as much hi-viz clothing on both you and your pony as you can, no matter what time of day, what time of year and regardless of what the weather is doing.


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## Ceris Comet (17 May 2012)

If you think that lit up Christmas trees are nervous riders , then shouldn't you slow down even more ?


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## Silmarillion (17 May 2012)

lannerch said:



			Seriously it's over kill you ruin the effect motorists think your a joke and don't slow down!
		
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But in order to think you're a joke, the motorist will have had to SEE you first. THAT's the aim with all the hi-viz - so you're SEEN. How the motorist reacts when they see you is down to their judgement and training. No amount of hi-viz is going to change a driver's mind if they are already set on driving fast no matter what - but at least if they SEE you first then it's THEIR fault if they hit you. There is nothing you, as a horse rider, can do to stop a car hitting you. It's just about being visible.

I am absolutely aghast that anyone can think that wearing hi-viz is something to be mocked and attributed to "nervous riders". There's nothing wrong with being nervous, and there's nothing wrong with wanting to protect yourself and your precious horse by making yourself visible.


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## Flame_ (17 May 2012)

quirky said:



			I'm with lannerch on this, can't really see the point in having more than a tabbard.

I see the 'lit up like a Christmas tree' hi-vizers as being nervous riders, rightly or wrongly, who want to draw as much attention to themselves as possible as they can't cope with traffic coming past at even a reduced speed.
		
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That's only your perception though, what proof do you have that its true? Some people do look a bit OTT, but so what? If they don't mind why should you? 

I wear a tabard and a hat band (which is great for being seen over all the stupid hedges near me), I usually use bright boots but my current horse won't do boots. I am going to add some bright sleeves to a martingale and maybe put something in his tail so there is something lower down to catch motorists eyes and in case I ever lose him out riding. I think there really is a point to it all and I used to feel a bit embarrassed to put on "too much" hi viz as a lot of people I know didn't used to bother but attitudes are changing and I think that's brilliant. H & H need to catch up IMO.


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## FairyLights (17 May 2012)

*Jesstickle* is that Newtown roundabout near the college?


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## quirky (17 May 2012)

Ceris Comet said:



			Thanks quirky for keeping this thread going !
		
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I wasn't keeping the thread going CC, I was just giving my opinion. May I suggest you wind your neck in .



jesstickle said:



			What if you fall off and the horse takes flight?

I don't believe you can't see the value in having something on the horse too quirky. I know you're a sensible one!
		
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Thing is, I never put boots on my horse, so putting things on her legs just isn't in my routine.
Having a hi viz tabbard on doesn't slow some cars, I don't think leg bands will make much difference


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## Jesstickle (17 May 2012)

quirky said:



			I wasn't keeping the thread going CC, I was just giving my opinion. May I suggest you wind your neck in .



Thing is, I never put boots on my horse, so putting things on her legs just isn't in my routine.
Having a hi viz tabbard on doesn't slow some cars, I don't think leg bands will make much difference 

Click to expand...

Hi vis breastplate? Tail piece? Fluro saddlecloth?There are loads of options out there. It isn't about cumulative effect. It's about what happens if you part company really.


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## Ceris Comet (17 May 2012)

I will " wind my neck in " when  all riders accept that to save the lives of both them and their ponies they wear as much Hi-viz as it takes to save them from death on the roads. What's your agenda ?


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## Shanny_mare (17 May 2012)

I nearly always hack on my own and have at least two miles of road work to get anywhere so I have always worn a tabard, even tho' the roads usually quiet and local farmers are generally very considerate. I've recently added a hat band so I can be seen  over the hedges and walls and I believe it has made a difference. In addition the horse has leg bands, hi viz on her reins and stirrup leathers in case we part company - heaven forbid.

I cannot believe that a responsible magazine can allow an article suggesting that you can "too much hi viz"!


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## lannerch (17 May 2012)

Cumulative effect though that's not necessary unless of course your riding in low light in which case you really shouldn't be riding on the roads at all.
You can either be seen or not and if wearing a tabbard with or without the trimmings you will be seen!


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## Jesstickle (17 May 2012)

Horsesforever1 said:



*Jesstickle* is that Newtown roundabout near the college?
		
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Nope. That is the roundabout at exit 32 on the A14  My horse is a saint


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## Jesstickle (17 May 2012)

lannerch said:



			Cumulative effect though that's not necessary unless of course your riding in low light in which case you really shouldn't be riding on the roads at all.
You can either be seen or not and if wearing a tabbard with or without the trimmings you will be seen!
		
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And again. What if you part ways?

I am no nervous nelly and the friend I was riding with that day is very competent ( has worked for Andrew Nicholson and Val Gingel as well as several dealers). It happens to the best of us. 

I don't believe you have never fallen off. So, what about if you do out hacking one day? You don't mind your horse running home down the road without a single scrap of hi vis on? Really?


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## MissMincePie&Brandy (17 May 2012)

but perhaps we would look smarter if we all hacked out in fawn coloured breeches and a tweed jacket, sporting rather fetching headscarfs instead of crash hats? .... Perhaps Miss Makadaisey (or whatever she's called) is trapped in some kind of sentimental timewarp, wishing she were back in the 1950s?


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## Ceris Comet (17 May 2012)

Keep posting !


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## Shanny_mare (17 May 2012)

lannerch said:



			Cumulative effect though that's not necessary unless of course your riding in low light in which case you really shouldn't be riding on the roads at all.
You can either be seen or not and if wearing a tabbard with or without the trimmings you will be seen!
		
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Not necessarily - if there are high hedges and a relatively small horse or pony, your head may be visible before your body - hence my hat band.


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## Ceris Comet (17 May 2012)

I think certain posters are stuck in a time warp !


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## Murphs_Mum (17 May 2012)

As far as I'm concerned people can laugh and think I'm as novicey as they like - as long as they see me and the horse.


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## Booboos (17 May 2012)

What a truly idiotic statement! The author was clearly saying rubbish for effect, but what was the H&H editor doing that day? Having a nice snooze at the office? Considering re-naming the magazine the Daily Fail?


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## Elsbells (17 May 2012)

Lannerk and quirkey, perhaps you should ask the mounted police if they feel embarressed to be wearing to much hi-viz?

And then maybe ask the motorist who told me that he was so grateful that I'd bothered to spend the extra few minutes and £'s to make myself and my bay horse clearly seen. Ask him if he thinks I should be embarressed?

Or do you really need to ask at all?


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## Ceris Comet (17 May 2012)

Too right MM , I would take being laughed at instead of being killed every time .


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## Meowy Catkin (17 May 2012)

Lannerk and quirkey, perhaps you should ask the mounted police if they feel embarressed to be wearing to much hi-viz?
		
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Or do they worry that it makes them look 'novicey'.


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## Ceris Comet (17 May 2012)

Lol ! at mounted police comments


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## quirky (17 May 2012)

Ceris Comet said:



			I will " wind my neck in " when  all riders accept that to save the lives of both them and their ponies they wear as much Hi-viz as it takes to save them from death on the roads. What's your agenda ?
		
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Are you for real?
I haven't got an agenda, unlike you .

I choose when I ride out. I won't ride out in a low winter sun, if visibility is bad, if the light is failing, if there are copious tractors about.
I risk assess every time I hack out. I do not and will not put myself in unnecessary danger. 
I am content that my hi viz tabbard is a sufficient warning to motorists.


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## burtie (17 May 2012)

I have to confess, I never wear hi-viz and only own one simple tab-bard from years ago when I had to ride down a quite country lane. :O

That said I have absolutely no roadwork, and the thought of riding on an actual road these days seems positively terrifying, not sure I'd even attempt it even in full hi-viz from head to toe.


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## Ibblebibble (17 May 2012)

didn't the BHS and the RAF have a joint venture a few years ago handing out flourescent tabbards to riders who live near RAF bases to make them more visible to raf pilots ? obviously they don't think it's stupid and unnecessary and i think i'd rather trust the opinion of the BHS than a journalist in a magazine


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## lannerch (17 May 2012)

And I second that quirky. A bit of common sense goes a long way


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## Ceris Comet (17 May 2012)

Just keep on with your " risk assessments " !


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## Ceris Comet (17 May 2012)

Just keep posting guys ! You're doing us a favour !


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## Murphs_Mum (17 May 2012)

Ibblebibble said:



			didn't the BHS and the RAF have a joint venture a few years ago handing out flourescent tabbards to riders who live near RAF bases to make them more visible to raf pilots ? obviously they don't think it's stupid and unnecessary and i think i'd rather trust the opinion of the BHS than a journalist in a magazine

Click to expand...

They did and I was one of the recipients of the free tabard and quarter sheet


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## quirky (17 May 2012)

Elsbells said:



			Lannerk and quirkey, perhaps you should ask the mounted police if they feel embarressed to be wearing to much hi-viz?
		
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Do they ?
If I look at the mounted police in the county I live in, they only wear a hi viz police jacket, not dissimilar to traffic police.


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## Jesstickle (17 May 2012)

quirky said:



			Are you for real?
I haven't got an agenda, unlike you .

I choose when I ride out. I won't ride out in a low winter sun, if visibility is bad, if the light is failing, if there are copious tractors about.
		
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Sorry quirky, I'm really not trying to pick on you, but bright sunshine can actually be just as bad for visibility. Drivers squinting into the sun and the horse in a halo of light. Hence the advice to use a mix of colours (pink is very good in bright sunshine,yellow better on dull days) to ensure you are seen.

Just thought I'd say that for people who weren't aware. Whether you wear hi vis or not is up to you


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## mtj (17 May 2012)

Hate to say it folks, but my understanding is that hi-viz can be ineffective in low winter sun.  Really have to take care to time rides or avoid routes where drivers could be dazzled.

Going back to the "pink", I do prefer yellow but its not very helpful when rape is in full bloom.


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## PingPongPony (17 May 2012)

quirky said:



			I'm with lannerch on this, can't really see the point in having more than a tabbard.

I see the 'lit up like a Christmas tree' hi-vizers as being nervous riders, rightly or wrongly, who want to draw as much attention to themselves as possible as they can't cope with traffic coming past at even a reduced speed.
		
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I'm definitely not a nervous rider, however even if i go for a potter down the lane i have a flourescent pink tabbard and a flourescent pink exercise sheet as well as flourescent wrist bands so the road users can tell when and which way i'll be turning. it isn't because i'm a nervous rider but because i have a spooky young horse that may or may not freak at a plastic bag or may or may not freak at the car that is going way too fast, and as much as i will try to stay on, you never know what the horse will throw at you therefore i would like to protect her and myself in case we got separated. i don't care if i look like a barbie freak, im a girl and my horse is a girl, i like pink, definitely prefer it to yellow or orange or green. so what that we look stupid, so what that the drivers may laugh at us, but when they do laugh at us they have to slow down to do that, so hey ho, i get what i want, i'm visible and the car has slowed down


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## Meowy Catkin (17 May 2012)

Some BHS/Horse Accidents links.

http://www.horseaccidents.org.uk/Advice_and_Prevention/Riding_on_the_Road/Be_Seen_Be_Safe.aspx

http://www.horseaccidents.org.uk/si...dvice_and_Prevention/What_To_Wear/Hi-viz.aspx

One RE low flying aircraft.

http://www.horseaccidents.org.uk/Advice_and_Prevention/Low_Flying_Aircraft.aspx


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## Ibblebibble (17 May 2012)

quirky said:



			t in a low winter sun, if visibility is bad, if the light is failing, if there are copious tractors about.
I risk assess every time I hack out. I do not and will not put myself in unnecessary danger. 
I am content that my hi viz tabbard is a sufficient warning to motorists.
		
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how on earth can you risk asses when you hack out, you have no control over the traffic you may meet do you ever actually hack out?? if i avoided the possibility of meeting too much traffic or certain types of traffic i'd never get past the end of the farm track!


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## Ceris Comet (17 May 2012)

i.e a range of bertie bassett colours are proved to be the ultimate in hi-viz gear


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## Happy Hunter (17 May 2012)

Shocked at H+H printing this!

I expect a full HiViz article with complementary 'shopping compare and buy' section too!!!


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## Ibblebibble (17 May 2012)

lannerch said:



			And I second that quirky. A bit of common sense goes a long way 

Click to expand...

indeed it does, and it's common sense to wear enough hi viz to make you easily visible a police hi viz jacket is rather more visible than a tabbard, thats why emergency workers and highway workers tend to wear jackets and not just a tabbard


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## Shantara (17 May 2012)

I usually wear a bit more that this, but can you imagine how well Ned and I would blend in?


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## Ceris Comet (17 May 2012)

No H&H response. Will be cancelling my subscription tomorrow


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## rockysmum (17 May 2012)

Haven't read all of this, and perhaps I am getting too old and ElfnSafety concious.

BUT what if you part company with your horse.  You will be lying in the road nice and safe in your hi viz vest.   Poor pony will be galloping along a country lane or dual carriageway with nothing at all. 



And LOL at this, just what I was thinking 



MissMincePie&Brandy said:



			but perhaps we would look smarter if we all hacked out in fawn coloured breeches and a tweed jacket, sporting rather fetching headscarfs instead of crash hats? .... Perhaps Miss Makadaisey (or whatever she's called) is trapped in some kind of sentimental timewarp, wishing she were back in the 1950s?
		
Click to expand...


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## Murphs_Mum (17 May 2012)

To be fair CC I don't think they monitor the forum out of hours - I think TFC is an outsource


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## Queenbee (17 May 2012)

I use hi vis boots it's easier for the driver to determine where the horse is, I would dip my mare in hi vis paint if I could, she is a saint and rode through a busy town past the fair which was just starting its rides, she was good as gold, but that doesn't mean that I won't truss her up like a luminous chicken, not due to nerves (if that were the case id never ride through town) but due to giving a damn about myself and my horse and understanding that as a driver I appreciate a the biggest flashing neon sign warning me that I am approaching a horse! I shall be doing the same with my youngster, even more important since one can never be entirely sure how they will react, you can never wear to much hi viz, and not because you are a pansy, but because you are intelligent enough to understand the importance of it.


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## Shantara (17 May 2012)

While we're on the subject, does anyone know of any good lightweight sheets? Ned's is a bit thick for summer wear and he gets hot/sweaty easily.


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## Buds_mum (17 May 2012)

Thinking of tweeting them the link to this thread. As cc said, I have no plans to keep buying the magazine when they clearly write drival. It's disgusting they would print it, bhs should be notified too!


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## Meowy Catkin (17 May 2012)

V-bandz do a mesh one.


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## Jesstickle (17 May 2012)

Nah said:



			While we're on the subject, does anyone know of any good lightweight sheets? Ned's is a bit thick for summer wear and he gets hot/sweaty easily.
		
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I got a mesh one from Aldi last year for about a tenner. Remarkably good quality so well worth keeping an eye out for them if they get them back in again


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## quirky (17 May 2012)

Ibblebibble said:



			how on earth can you risk asses when you hack out, you have no control over the traffic you may meet do you ever actually hack out?? if i avoided the possibility of meeting too much traffic or certain types of traffic i'd never get past the end of the farm track!
		
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Of course I can risk assess .
I drive to the yard, so can assess as I am going what the visibility is like for a driver. Any doubt, I don't go out 
Secondly, if say the farmers are spreading, or harvesting, I'll give it a miss as the lanes don't fit both a tractor and horse down. I would hate to inconvenience them when they are so beholden to the weather .
I have been at current yard 6 years. I meet cars, motorbikes, cycle races, milk tankers, tractors (also steam driven), horse and cart, low loaders, quad bikes and finally a golf type buggy. Of those, the horse isn't overly keen on 2 stroke motorbikes but it sin't a major problem.

And yes, I used to hack out 7 days a week but now I'm down to about 4 times a week due to work encroaching on my riding time


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## Ceris Comet (17 May 2012)

Thanks all for keeping this thread alive , H&H will show their true colours if they don't state that this is a top forum thread


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## DougalJ (17 May 2012)

Is this comment in this article for real? So it's better to look the part when you hack out rather than potentially saving you and your horses life by wearing Hi- Viz? If you take a look at the Highway Code - to look like "Bertie Bassett" is suggested: 

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_069853


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## Mad_Cow347 (17 May 2012)

jesstickle said:



			Nope. That is the roundabout at exit 32 on the A14  My horse is a saint 

Click to expand...

Ooo you're near me then! Sadly enough I thought I recognised that roundabout and definitely wouldn't want to ride round there myself!

I tend to only wear a tabard but mainly because he would have a complete fit of i put a sheet over him & he doesn't wear boots. Might look into other things at Burghley this year, i seem to collect more hi-viz there each year. 

I also completely agree that there is no such thing as too much hi-viz, yes you look ridiculous but can be seen, I pass so many cyclists round here & often think it should be made the law that cyclists, riders & motorcyclists have to wear at least a tabard then people can't complain.

Although I do also agree that you shouldnt be riding out on the roads when it is late enough that you really couldn't be seen without it, and therefore if you're not on the road & don't want to be found when you fall off then that is your own problem really!


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## PingPongPony (17 May 2012)

Nah said:



			While we're on the subject, does anyone know of any good lightweight sheets? Ned's is a bit thick for summer wear and he gets hot/sweaty easily.
		
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a mesh one  http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fluoresce...t=UK_Horse_Wear_Equipment&hash=item43afc25399


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## Elsbells (17 May 2012)

Nah said:



			While we're on the subject, does anyone know of any good lightweight sheets? Ned's is a bit thick for summer wear and he gets hot/sweaty easily.
		
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I've got a mesh wraparound 1/4 sheet which is used all year round, apart from when she's clipped mid winter and needs a wool one. Don't ask me where to buy though, as I was given it and would love another if anyone knows of where to look?


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## Meowy Catkin (17 May 2012)

Ceris Comet said:



			Thanks all for keeping this thread alive , H&H will show their true colours if they don't state that this is a top forum thread
		
Click to expand...

Has Shils' cob thread ever been in H&H's top 10?


ETA.




http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fluoresce...t=UK_Horse_Wear_Equipment&hash=item43afc25399






Click to expand...


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## Littlelegs (17 May 2012)

We wear tabards, tail guards, hat bands & mine wears leg wraps. Exercise sheets in winter & if its a dull day have various other light up stuff. Even on a grey 14.2 a tabard isn't visible from a windscreen. If someone is deluded enough to think I'm a nervous novice for having hi viz, I don't care. I have enough confidence in my own ability not to care if someone thinks minimizing risks makes me incompetent. The attitude that hi viz is for nervous novices reminds me of being in my early teens when my friends & I thought never wearing a hat meant we looked like experienced & confident riders. Luckily, we grew out of that. 
Fwiw, our hacking is the type that an extra few seconds makes a difference, & the people who hack without are usually the nervous incompetent types.


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## Shantara (17 May 2012)

Thanks Elsbells and Faracat 
I might have to get that one :O


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## Keen (17 May 2012)

jesstickle said:



			I got a mesh one from Aldi last year for about a tenner. Remarkably good quality so well worth keeping an eye out for them if they get them back in again 

Click to expand...

Lol!  Got to love the random aisle at Aldi - only supermarket where you can come away with a Bavarian cheese and a chainsaw/scuba diving kit/equine hi-viz!


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## Murphs_Mum (17 May 2012)

The Velcro leg bands rather than boots are only a few quid


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## Meowy Catkin (17 May 2012)

I love the Direct.gov's picture aid. 









Click to expand...


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## Jesstickle (17 May 2012)

Mad_Cow347 said:



			Ooo you're near me then! Sadly enough I thought I recognised that roundabout and definitely wouldn't want to ride round there myself!
		
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We're actually moving tomorrow. So I live near you for one night more and then I'm gone. Somewhere with loads of off road hacking in fact. Will still wear my hi vis though. Just incase!


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## undertheweather (17 May 2012)

Faracat said:



			Has Shils' cob thread ever been in H&H's top 10?
		
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Only 'bout 12 times! (I actually have no idea how many times, just know that it was more than one occasion!)


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## Meowy Catkin (17 May 2012)

undertheweather said:



			Only 'bout 12 times! (I actually have no idea how many times, just know that it was more than one occasion!)
		
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That's great.  There's hope for this thread then.


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## humblepie (17 May 2012)

A random person (someone out walking) once said to me that when driving they find the hi viz boots on a horse really stand out.   Must admit have only recently started using them as needed some new everyday hacking boots and thought it made sense.


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## Elsbells (17 May 2012)

How ironic!!

We've gone from why we look stupid and incompetant in our hi-viz to, where can we buy some more?


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## Shantara (17 May 2012)

I'm also relatively new to the "Berty Bassett" crowd.
I didn't really know much about it and I thought it was only for police and warehouse workers.

Me a few years ago...








I feel much better and safer now.


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## BlairandAzria (17 May 2012)

quirky said:



			Are you for real?
I haven't got an agenda, unlike you .

I choose when I ride out. I won't ride out in a low winter sun, if visibility is bad, if the light is failing, if there are copious tractors about.
I risk assess every time I hack out. I do not and will not put myself in unnecessary danger. 
I am content that my hi viz tabbard is a sufficient warning to motorists.
		
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The thing is.....as soon as you and your horse step foot on the roads you cease to have control:  you cant possibly know what you are going to come across; tractors, buses, a hgv, a milk float, a flotilla of cyclists wizzing past, or even a granny driving her nissan micra back from afternoon bingo, _you just dont know._

I very much dislike hacking on roads, unfortunately for me I cant not- i have to go on busy roads if i want to hack.  i risk assess too- i will not go out  in poor visibility, or fading light, i try and avoid busy times and only hack at quiet times, however, that doesnt mean that i feel i shouldnt wear any hi-viz, the two things are not mutually exclusive.  Because i hack during good visbility, during quiet times of day means that i am trying to avoid putting myself in any more danger than is necessary, however, the fact that even in good visibilty days i wear a tabard, hat band and my horse wears leg bands means that i am trying to reduce that danger _even further _-  i heard that  hi-viz gives drivers approx 3 secs extra stopping time,(it may not be accurate but if it is, 3 secs at 60mph is quite some distance).  i just do not understand any reason to be against wearing it, except one that is purely for vanity's sake.

Having thought about it some more this evening, i can not think of one reason to justify the comments made by the writer in h&h, and am really shocked that it got past the editor.  If it makes one person stop from putting on that extra bit of hi-viz for fear of being called a 'bertie' then the damage has been done.  But also, i do not consider it appropriate at all for a well regarded horse magazine to mock people for wearing any kind of kit- it would certainly not be acceptable for them to openly mock people who wear katie price jods and hoodies, or people who only wear uber expensive german dressage brands.  Mocking people for the way they dress is bullying, even in jest- the fact that this is regarding the safety of riders and their horses makes it all the more disgusting.


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## Merrymoles (17 May 2012)

Ceris Comet said:



			I used to get comments like " We can't miss you can we !"  To which I used to reply " That's the idea !"
		
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^^^
Exactly the same experience and exactly the same reply! Our comments were from someone who rode a brown horse along a hedged single-track road while wearing a brown coat...
Hi vis is not about my preservation, it's about keeping whatever horse I'm riding safe.


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## milliepops (17 May 2012)

humblepie said:



			A random person (someone out walking) once said to me that when driving they find the hi viz boots on a horse really stand out.   Must admit have only recently started using them as needed some new everyday hacking boots and thought it made sense.
		
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I was driving to the yard once at dusk and a local rider on a 14hh pony only had a tabard on.  I couldn't tell that it was a horse until it was almost too late, as it just looked like a tall person with a tabard.  This was on a single track road so I was only doing about 15mph. Had he been wearing leg wraps, it would have been much more obvious that it was a horse.


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## Ceris Comet (17 May 2012)

BlairandAzria said:



			The thing is.....as soon as you and your horse step foot on the roads you cease to have control:  you cant possibly know what you are going to come across; tractors, buses, a hgv, a milk float, a flotilla of cyclists wizzing past, or even a granny driving her nissan micra back from afternoon bingo, _you just dont know._

I very much dislike hacking on roads, unfortunately for me I cant not- i have to go on busy roads if i want to hack.  i risk assess too- i will not go out  in poor visibility, or fading light, i try and avoid busy times and only hack at quiet times, however, that doesnt mean that i feel i shouldnt wear any hi-viz, the two things are not mutually exclusive.  Because i hack during good visbility, during quiet times of day means that i am trying to avoid putting myself in any more danger than is necessary, however, the fact that even in good visibilty days i wear a tabard, hat band and my horse wears leg bands means that i am trying to reduce that danger _even further _-  i heard that  hi-viz gives drivers approx 3 secs extra stopping time,(it may not be accurate but if it is, 3 secs at 60mph is quite some distance).  i just do not understand any reason to be against wearing it, except one that is purely for vanity's sake.

Having thought about it some more this evening, i can not think of one reason to justify the comments made by the writer in h&h, and am really shocked that it got past the editor.  If it makes one person stop from putting on that extra bit of hi-viz for fear of being called a 'bertie' then the damage has been done.  But also, i do not consider it appropriate at all for a well regarded horse magazine to mock people for wearing any kind of kit- it would certainly not be acceptable for them to openly mock people who wear katie price jods and hoodies, or people who only wear uber expensive german dressage brands.  Mocking people for the way they dress is bullying, even in jest- the fact that this is regarding the safety of riders and their horses makes it all the more disgusting.
		
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Spot on . thank you for taking the time to respond


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## Queenbee (17 May 2012)

I think there are a couple of people who post on here who actually are more scared of what wearing more than a tabbard will say about them to others, than they are concerned about the safety of all involved. such a shame that people are more in love with appearances than their horse and their lives. btw quirky, you can not risk asses for a car that comes along while you are on your ride and Knocks you flying, isn't it better to be over visible than 'adequately visible'?


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## SuseP (17 May 2012)

Just posting this for support...
Me and horse both wear at least one item each as a minimum now (since I grew up and started to feel my mortality!). 
And I'm more likely to wear extra items on bright sunny days when the shadows from hedgerows break up your outline, and the drivers are squinting...as a driver, that's when I fail to see pedestrians/cyclists etc.

Come on H+H, sort it out.


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## SO1 (17 May 2012)

After having an accident due to a rogue driver I was wearing a hi viz tabbard he was in a one of those off road kit cars and driving very fast on a country lane, asked him to slow down politely and he speed up frightening my normally very sedate pony who spun and then fell on the road grazing his hocks could have been much worse. Wearing more hi viz would not have stopped this accident but has made me more aware of being on the roads and now I have hi viz trousers as well as tabbard and pony has hi viz leg wraps. Yes I look  silly as the trousers are a bit baggy but no-one could say they could not see me.

We also have cyclists who race through the bridleways and the hi viz also help them see us, too.

I think hi viz is important and people who are trying to be safe and avoid an accident should not be mocked or patronised. It is easy to think an accident would not happen to you. You can be the most fantastic rider ever but when you share the road with others then that is not enough to protect you.


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## Pearlsasinger (17 May 2012)

quirky said:



			I'm with lannerch on this, can't really see the point in having more than a tabbard.

I see the 'lit up like a Christmas tree' hi-vizers as being nervous riders, rightly or wrongly, who want to draw as much attention to themselves as possible as they can't cope with traffic coming past at even a reduced speed.
		
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I have one of the most bombproof horses it is possible to have.  And as an enormous Draft horse she certainly draws the eye.  She spooks at very little and when she does it's just a little jump 'on the spot'.  Apart from the fact that she usually prefers to walk on the crown of the road and knows full well that she has right of way it is very unlikely that anything that she or I do on the road is likely to cause an accident.  But I can't speak for other road users.
However I wear a fluorescent jacket with sleeves, fluorescent gloves  ( so that hand signals can be seen) and a hat band (so that  I can be seen over walls/hedges).  The horse wears 4 leg bands (as movement attracts the eye) and a tail guard with lights.
I have been riding for over 40 years and started riding in the days when we all wore hacking jackets and beige breeches/jodhpurs and there wasn't much traffic on the roads anyway.  I want my horse to be safe, even if we part company - which is highly unlikely.
So I shall continue to use as much hi-viz as I can get my hands on.  I am not at all embarrassed about being seen but would be if there was an accident and I hadn't taken every precaution possible.


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## Ceris Comet (17 May 2012)

I wont give another penny to HH, unless they hand out hi-viz gear free of charge


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## piebaldsparkle (17 May 2012)

Ceris Comet said:



			I wont give another penny to HH, unless they hand out hi-viz gear free of charge
		
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Fantastic suggestion


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## Holzdweaver (17 May 2012)

I for one always go out 'lit up like a xmas tree' but im in no way a nervous rider. Bit of stereotyping there dont you think?

I have a tabard/coat , Darcy has four wraps, exercise sheet, a tail guard, breastplate covers and bits on his bridle.
Over the years iv had so many people say 'sorry i couldnt see you' when slamming on the breaks or clipping my stirrup, that i have now taken that excuse off them, and if they dont (where they can) give me some space or slow down, i can swear as much as i like at them while not feeling the least bit guilty in case they havent actually seen me!  xD

I like my horse too much to go out without it, id rather dress in bright yellow than have him rammed by a car. I live near very busy main roads, and the more people who can see me, the better!


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## BlairandAzria (17 May 2012)

*NAH*  i got my lightweight hi-viz sheet from aldi or lidl (cant remember which) last year, its fab, its not mesh but a very lightweight nylon/ plolyester fabric, its made by "crane" think it was about 8 quid.  Worth waiting until they come back around, im sure someone told me June was equestrian month at aldi- so they might be back in stock soon!


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## Ceris Comet (17 May 2012)

piebaldsparkle said:



			Fantastic suggestion 

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Thanks ! I have cancelled my HH sub and so have at least 15 of my chums. Get real real HH


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## JFTDWS (17 May 2012)

Faracat said:



			I love the Direct.gov's picture aid. 






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tangentially, I actually think this is rubbish - yellow hi vis is useless right now round here - every flippin' field is rape seed in flower and you cannot see yellow hivised riders for love nor money against them.


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## ABC (17 May 2012)

Its a bit stereotypical to say riders who wear hi vis are nervous riders. I'm not the most confident, but I'm not nervous out hacking.

I'd rather be seen, and be safe, and the same goes for my horse. Like others have said, if the worst does happen and I fall off, I want both him and me to be visible to reduce the likelihood of an accident. Accidents do happen, and within reason, I want to do everything in my power to reduce the risk.


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## Double_choc_lab (17 May 2012)

The Mounted Section in Avon & Somerset do night patrols around the suburban areas - better tell them to take off their jackets, rugs and lights - they'll look far too novicey whilst dealing with the tw""s of this world.  The author should get some shares in Sports Direct then she'd change her mind.


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## ester (17 May 2012)

thank goodness for freedom of choice and the fact that we won't all pay attention to H+H. 

and yes, yellow doesn't work all the time, we have some orange too . I also think it depends on pony colour, yellow seems to work better on frank than on mum's yellow pony. 

Quantity of hi vis depends on route taken/prevailing conditions so that is where I do my risk assesment. even if on a hill somewhere I will at least have my yellow hat on in case someone needs to find me prone on the ground somewhere! 

min is usually hat cover (stays on permanently), tabard and breastplate. If going down the main road/dodgy light we have leg bands, noseband, quarter sheet and a rambo LED tabard to choose from. 

Quirky you say that work means that you can now only hack 4 days a week (pain that it is  ) work means that I often cannot pick and choose when I can ride, there is only one available slot in the day  , so I cannot really say oh its a bit grey/the sun is now low so I best not ride. I do however choose not to go the east/west-west/east route in low winter sun!


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## Pearlsasinger (17 May 2012)

I have put a thread onto Feedback asking TFC to bring this thread to the notice of H&H's editor.  I hope that the 'journalist' is asked to justify her stance against a wealth of official advice.  I've never heard anything so ridiculous.


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## YorksG (17 May 2012)

I doubt that many would call me a nervous novice, but I wear Hi-Viz hat band, gloves, jacket or tabbard, the mare wears Hi-Viz martingale strap, leg wraps, tail guard and I have a summer sheet and a winter exercise sheet. On more than one occaison we have had  comments about how the leg wraps (front and back) catch the eye and make sure we are seen. 
I can't believe that H&H can be stupid enough to print rubbish like that.


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## quirky (17 May 2012)

Just to reaffirm to those people who skim read. I DO wear hi viz.
Over and out


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## Ceris Comet (17 May 2012)

Pearlsasinger said:



			I have put a thread onto Feedback asking TFC to bring this thread to the notice of H&H's editor.  I hope that the 'journalist' is asked to justify her stance against a wealth of official advice.  I've never heard anything so ridiculous.
		
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  Thank you Pearl XXX


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## Patterdale (17 May 2012)

I think I can confidently say that I do not own a single piece of hi-viz. Not for vanity - I have just never gotten any. 

I'm not riding at the moment until my babys born but this thread has really made me think - I will definitely be investing in a tabard and leg wraps, at least!


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## Merrymoles (17 May 2012)

I'm not a nervous rider either. Maybe it's my age, but I have realised that the sun doesn't shine brightly enough out of my a7$e to negate the need for hi viz


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## Spiritedly (17 May 2012)

Another unfortunate fact at the moment is that it can be fine and sunny with good visibility when you set off on your ride but black skies and hail stones 10-20 minutes later, so even if you do your risk assessment and decide no high vis is needed nature may disagree.


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## ester (17 May 2012)

quirky said:



			Just to reaffirm to those people who skim read. I DO wear hi viz.
Over and out 

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well presumably so does the author as she suggests that a tabard (which you say you use) may be prudent but I thought the point of the discussion was about the merits of using more hi vis than that and that rather than choosing not to ride in less than great weather you can mitigate it by making yourself more visible.


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## Walrus (17 May 2012)

Just caught up with this thread, am very sad this attitude has come out in horse and hound, It's the only horsey mag I read as I much prefere the industry tone of it even though I'm a leisure rider. it makes me sad because I get laughed at enough at my yard for my high viz and now people will be able to quote a respected industry publication to show me they were right all along. very disappointing.


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## touchstone (17 May 2012)

What stupid comments from H+H 

If I'm riding on main roads (which I have to to access our bridleways) I nearly always use a hat band, tabard or jacket and leg bands for the horse. I will use an exercise sheet at times too.

 To suggest that using hi viz is mollycoddling is quite insulting, I value my life as well as my horse's and also the welfare of my family if I were to be killed or seriously injured for want of a bit of hi viz.  I am not a nervous rider either.

Far better a bertie basset 'pansy' than a corpse.

I wonder how the families of those riders tragically killed on the road feel about the comments by H+H?


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## Mrs C (17 May 2012)

What a dissapointing attitude from h&h...


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## duckling (17 May 2012)

I find it unbelievable that such an ignorant comment has been allowed to go into the magazine - really H&H? 

I have always worn a hi-viz tabard and at least two leg bands on the pony's offside - I ride other people's horses and if I don't stick to this my personal rider insurance becomes invalid. I also own a hat band, tail guard and noseband cover. In my BHS R&RS exam (taken over 10 years ago) it was stated that research has proven that moving hi-viz (i.e. on walking legs) can get you seen upto 3 seconds earlier than static hi-viz, so not only is it helpful to the horse if you part company it could get you both seen sooner. 

Just to add, my current tabard is one I 'borrowed' from work (construction site) as it is shaped like a waistcoat and looks a little more flattering than the over-head types, so it's definitely worth checking out PPE/workwear providers for cheaper alternatives to horsey hi-viz companies 



Nah said:



			While we're on the subject, does anyone know of any good lightweight sheets? Ned's is a bit thick for summer wear and he gets hot/sweaty easily.
		
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Nah - if he get's really sweaty have a look at this: http://www.parsonsrump.co.uk/ 
The lady that designed it has an Icelandic pony who sweated up too much under an exercise sheet so created this instead


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## bumper (17 May 2012)

Pearlsasinger said:



			I hope that the 'journalist' is asked to justify her stance against a wealth of official advice.  I've never heard anything so ridiculous.
		
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^^^that.


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## Batgirl (17 May 2012)

Me and my mister have a tabard, hat cover (crocheted by my mum with fluorescent wool  ) leg wraps and a quarter sheet for cold/rain in Yellow and a Pink Lanyard.  I am not a novice or nervous rider and my horse is about as bombproof as they get (pigs are far scarier than anything man made!).  

I have come far too close to being smacked up the back end by vans/cars etc to take the risk that my horse will be hot by a car because I can't be seen.  You can see larger amounts of Hi Viz through hedges etc on country roads.  I also find that often people are wearing the Hi Viz vests instead of tabards that don't do up properly at the front and from the front are nearly useless.

My horses owner calls us the 80's pair and shields his eyes  though he does sppreciate that I am keeping his boy safe.

I am also a big fan of the idea that both should have some hi viz in case you become parted (though I have been told in jest by some people that if their horse dumps them they deserve what they get!)

That is my piece, I too am very disappointed that H+H would allow this mockery in their magazine.


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## Shantara (17 May 2012)

duckling said:



			Nah - if he get's really sweaty have a look at this: http://www.parsonsrump.co.uk/ 
The lady that designed it has an Icelandic pony who sweated up too much under an exercise sheet so created this instead 

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Ooooh, nifty!


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## Millie-Rose (17 May 2012)

I am in no way a nervous rider and I would class myself as a comp rider rather than a "happy hacker" (not that there's anything wrong with that). I however have to do road work for fitness and I always wear a tabard and a hat band plus horse wears breastplate, leg bands (these are particulary good I think as the movement is eye catching), sleeves on noseband and reins and 98% of the time an exercise sheet as well. I only don't use the exercise sheet if very windy as I risk assess my sharp event mare is much more likely to dump me if it flaps than I am to get hit by a car! 

 I also don't go out intending to fall off and have only ever come off on the road once when my pony slipped over with me whilst being an idiot years ago but there's a first time for everything. I have to cross a main road with fast moving traffic to get to the majority of my hacking and the thought of my horse running back across there on her way home if we parted company makes my blood run cold at least if she is wearing Hi-Vis there is more chance of the traffic seeing her.

I had a scary incident a couple of years ago when I nearly drove straight into the back of a bay horse being ridden by a rider in dark clothing. It was summer and bright sunlight but she was under a hedge and I never saw her. I only missed her as her hacking companion who was ahead of her was wearing Hi-Vis I was preparing to pass the one I could see and in the process nearly hit the other.

I too think this is very irresponsible of Horse and Hound shame on them you would have thought there would at least have been an editors comment at the end of the article to state that it was not the magazines opinion. Just to add most of my Hi-Vis is a horrid green colour as it came out of a bargain bucket at Burghley a few years ago I couldn't care less what we look like as long as me and my girl are safe.


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## Bess (17 May 2012)

I am a total believer in hi-vis, I wear a tabard or a jacket (that looks like a police one), a high vis hat cover and my horse has hi vis leg covers (I can't think of a better name for them but I'm sure there is one).

I think its worth making sure you and  the horse are as visible as possibe.


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## honetpot (17 May 2012)

I had a sobering experience a few years back when I was driving down a narrow unlite lane in our village in the dark, it was dark enough to have headlights on and they were dipped. I wasn't driving very fast as the lane is full of bends but it wasn't till I was almost on top of them that I saw the horses. They did have high viz jackets on but did not catch the headlights beam as they were dipped. If they had on hi-viz leg wraps they would have been much sooner.
 Having tried driving a small pony and cart around our village on quite Sunday mornings with all the warning signs on the back I gave in as even on a Sunday the abuse I got was unbeleavable and the pony almost had his head bashed in with a driver cutting in. 
I no longer ride as our bridleways are not that good and there didn't seem to be any fun with dicing with death every time you went out. Oh for acres to play in.


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## Queenbee (17 May 2012)

Me again!  just another thought that sprang to mind, tabards are designed to be seen front and back which is great, but we all turn our horses to go down other roads thus running the risk of being 'side on' to traffic, a tabbard alone is not so visible when the rider is side on to a car, and a split second is all it takes, boots as a minimum on the horse and in winter a great big bright exercise sheet. I'd never ever give any driver the chance to say he/she didn't see me or my horse but then perhaps I care more about her than my fashion sense... I couldn't live with myself if I lost her because of 'under dressing' her.


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## spookypony (18 May 2012)

I am not a rider that falls off. Part of my whole identity as a rider is "doesn't fall off". Nevertheless, I have on several occasions fallen off, and the pony has gone home alone, across a busy road. Accordingly, he now wears at least a hi-viz breastplate when we ride out. 

On Endurance rides, riders were hi-viz number tabards. My pony also wears his hi-viz breastplate then. There was an occasion last year, when people had to spend many hours looking for a horse that had ditched its very experienced rider on an Endurance ride (they were both fine). I'd rather give my pony every chance of being found quickly, and am seriously considering getting one of those pet-locator devices for in his saddle bag.


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## Feathered (18 May 2012)

Another one here who was shocked when I read that. I do agree with some other aspects of the article, over rugging and feeding for example, which can be detrimental to the horse. 

But the hi viz comment... Just stupid and highly irresponsible. I feel naked and vulnerable if I go out without any. We should be encouraging the more 'old school' to wear hi viz, and that comment is not helping.

Has anyone written on their Facebook wall about this? Might a good way to bring it to more peoples attention and get a response from h&h. *toddling off to have a look...*


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## DJ (18 May 2012)

What a ridiculous thing to state !!!! H&H need to think long and hard about that comment !!!! 


I have bought an Equi-safety 'Polite' tabard, hat and high viz exercise sheet, the difference it has made to passing traffic has been HUGE !!! 

Having a young horse was problematic when idiots came flying past at 60+ MPH on our narrow country lanes. Since High Viz-ing up we`ve had no more problems, car slow down more readily and pass a darn site more carefully, at first glance yes they think we`re in the 'Mounted Section' but i couldn`t give a rats ass wether they slow down beacuse i`m lit up like a christmas tree, or that they think i`m a copper, either way it has the desired effect and they slow down ... It works, and i wouldn`t ride anywhere with out my gear now ... !!


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## Ladydragon (18 May 2012)

lannerch said:



			I agree with h&h you certainly can get too much hi viz!
A tabbed is usually enough anything more excessive and looks ridiculous to the motorist encouraging them not to take you seriously eg when clothed all over in high vid Barbie pink!
Those here that do it certainly get mocked by the neighbours ( non horsey ) and yes they do mollycoddle their horses!
		
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I actually quite like the pink...and don't care what colour someone else wears...  I also don't give a flying monkeys if my pink choice offends eyes/brain cells or the neighbours find me so interesting they need to spend their valuable time mocking me...  What I do care about will have been achieved...


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## SonnysHumanSlave (18 May 2012)

i have a tabard and leg bands.

I once hacked passed a high school. and I think just about every kids said they loved my horses socks


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## piebaldsparkle (18 May 2012)

Oh my I'm not sure what is worst the fact I have a pink exercise sheet or the fact I normally team it with yellow hiviz brushing boots!! (so unmatchy matchy)!!







Even the dog doesn't escape!! - Mind didn't stop another liveries vet almost running him over, there are still tire tread marks on the coat to prove how close it was!


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## jenki13 (18 May 2012)

Can't believe that H&H would be stupid enough to post something like this! 

I wear hi-viz every time I ride out as all my hacking takes me onto roads at some point and these are narrow country lanes. My neighbours certainly don't mock me for going out in Hi-viz and many have commented on how they see my flourescent yellow hat cover over the hedge way before they see me. My horse has 2 yellow brushing boots & a exercise sheet for winter, I also have a yellow "workman" jacket, a yellow running jacket, and a orange t-shirt.

I hadn't thought about the rapeseed & yellow hi-viz luckily we only have 1 field by the road though and I can avoid that route which I generally do when the rapeseed is in full bloom as it makes me sneeze & stinks!

I am planning on investing in extra orange/pink/yellow tops that are currently selling in sports world. I brought an orange jacket the other day but was keeping it for cycling (horse always gets it dirty!). I will also keep an eye out in aldi for a mesh sheet.


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## jenki13 (18 May 2012)

piebaldsparkle said:



			Even the dog doesn't escape!! - Mind didn't stop another liveries vet almost running him over, there are still tire tread marks on the coat to prove how close it was!

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Is your dog wearing a jumper? Poor thing must look like a right pansy


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## zaminda (18 May 2012)

There are some eventers near me who never wear reflective gear, from what I can remember they have lost one in an rta, and still don't. Stupidity doesn't even come into it.
I'm currently working in oz, in WA we have to wear reflective vests on the race track for exercise, as well as a light, and people are so much more visible. They don't over east, which is a bit strange.
Riding through the bush, the people who are wearing fluro are so much more visible, and we are much less likely to have a head on with them (racehorses cantering in both directions) than with the ones wearing all black.
I did look around for some better fluro gear for my horse, its on the list before I start riding her again on my return, and I hardly ride on the roads. The lowflying aircraft and the tanks can see me so much better though!


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## mollyblob (18 May 2012)

Definitely agree with having hi-viz on moving parts (leg wraps etc) to be seen quicker.  I also like to wear a hi-viz hat band/hat cover so I can be seen over the hedge tops- on windy country lanes anything which gives the drivers extra time to spot you before you actually reach each other has to be a bonus.  

So important to wear hi-viz all the time though, even when only doing off-road hacking.  I remember a couple of years back a member of another forum (and maybe this one too?!!) having a horrendous accident whilst hacking alone off-road.  I can't remember the details, but she came off, was very seriously injured and lay in a ditch for several hours.  She was eventually spotted by air ambulance simply because she had hi-viz on, so she was visible from the air.  Without the hi-viz she would have been all but invisible from the air, and with such serious injuries the accident could well have proved fatal if she hadn't been been found when she did.  

I used to do lots of off-road running over the fells and always wore hi-viz for this reason!


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## hairycob (18 May 2012)

The fire brigade were glad that my son was wearing hi viz when his horse got trapped in a ditch after a massive spook as it made them easy to find.
I've had a (very horse friendly) farmer friend comment that if riders wear hi viz it gives him time to plan where to stop his tractor so that he doesn't scare the horses.
I've had dog walkers comment that hi viz means they can call back their dog early without feeling flustered & panicky.


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## Janette (18 May 2012)

I have to wonder if Police Horses and their riders, are included in the 'Nervous Nellie' brigade?

My yard is a Shire Horse stud, and the police were there yesterday, trying out a horse as a potential police horse.
He was taken out on the busy roads.  Emma who showed him off was head to toe fluorescent and was seen.  The officer got on and guess what, she was wearing Fluorescent yellow as well except hers had POLICE written across as well.  It's amazing how much space and respect she was given on the road.


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## DougalJ (18 May 2012)

I think this all boils down to what you look like when you hack out. Unfortunately gone are the days when you can hack out on our roads with your brown hacking jacket like you did in the seventies. Unless you are lucky enough to ride on a country estate or endless fields and woods, hacking on our roads is unavoidable in this day and age. Traffic is so hazardous out there now that hi-viz is vital to ensure safety all round, for your horse, yourself and the car drivers. It is not a fashion parade H&H but a matter of safety that is mentioned in the Highway Code.

What will the H+H anti-hi viz clique and author of this article do if it ever becomes law to wear hi-viz while riding out on the roads. Cringe in their pink day-glo I hope!


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## Kaylum (18 May 2012)

everyone should wear hi viz.  First of all if you fall off whilst hacking and have an accident it helps the air amblunce find you.  Secondly hats with his viz can been seen over hedges of roads, thirdly yellow hi biz isn't the best as it blends in but it's better than nothing.  Having written to watchdog last year to say those two guys on the motorbike should be wearing hi viz only to get no reply.  It's everyone's responsibility to be seen.  Was also watching a police program where a boy was knocked off his bike and killed.  The woman driver was not charged with murder as it was dark and she couldn't see him no hi viz.

Agree with leg wraps and tail as they are at eye level for motorists.  Cyclists as well should wear hi viz.


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## tickety_boo (18 May 2012)

quirky said:



			Are you for real?
I choose when I ride out. I won't ride out in a low winter sun, if visibility is bad, if the light is failing, if there are copious tractors about. I risk assess every time I hack out. I do not and will not put myself in unnecessary danger. I am content that my hi viz tabbard is a sufficient warning to motorists.
		
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With all due respect, you are presuming you have control over the situation simply by risk assessing. What about the things which we have no control over? I was very nearly hit last year by a woman who hadn't bothered de-misting her windscreen. Luckily I was wearing a flashing cycle light attached to the back of my tabard and she noticed me at the very, VERY last minute. Had it been just the tabbard, I really do not think for one minute that she would have seen me in time to violently swerve to avoid me.

I do appreciate what you are saying, but to say that you do not and will not put yourself in any danger, but then go on say that a single tabbard is sufficient, is dangerously niave.


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## quirky (18 May 2012)

Whatever 
Have been riding 26 and have never had what you would call a near miss. Maybe I am very lucky, but it takes no time to decide whether it is a good day to hack out and I shall carry on naively doing that . I am surprised other people don't assess the conditions to ride tbh .
If conditions aren't good, I go in the school. I'm lucky in that I don't have to hack out, I and my horse enjoy it immensely though


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## Ceris Comet (18 May 2012)

Arnt you lucky !


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## Clannad48 (18 May 2012)

Malibu_Stacy said:



			!
new clique anyone?  'I rock out with the bertie basset look'? 

Click to expand...


Can I join


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## TGM (18 May 2012)

Quirky and Llanerch - it is up to you what level of hi viz you use to hack out on your own horses, but I think what people are getting up in arms about is the *ridicule* you are directing at those who choose to wear more than a tabard.

There are very valid reasons why people may choose to wear more than a tabard:

* A hi viz hat band or hat cover allows motorists to spot riders over hedges down winding country lanes.

* Hi viz boots obviously move with the horses legs, and apparently studies have indicated that this movement catches the motorists eye quickly and alerts them to the fact that it is a moving animal.

* As others have said, hi viz on the horse itself is a wise precaution in case horse and rider become separated due to a fall.

So please don't be irresponsible and poke fun at those who are making sensible and valid choices for the safety of themselves, their horses and the general motoring public.


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## Booboos (18 May 2012)

quirky said:



			Whatever 
Have been riding 26 and have never had what you would call a near miss. Maybe I am very lucky, but it takes no time to decide whether it is a good day to hack out and I shall carry on naively doing that . I am surprised other people don't assess the conditions to ride tbh .
If conditions aren't good, I go in the school. I'm lucky in that I don't have to hack out, I and my horse enjoy it immensely though 

Click to expand...

Yes statistically you HAVE BEEN lucky, no guarrantees that you ARE lucky and will continue to be in the future.

Out of interest do you carry out the same risk assessment guidelines when you drive (I assume you are also a driver), i.e. if conditions are poor do you walk to avoid hiting with your car other road users who are not visible?


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## monkeybum13 (18 May 2012)

TGM said:



			Quirky and Llanerch - it is up to you what level of hi viz you use to hack out on your own horses, but I think what people are getting up in arms about is the *ridicule* you are directing at those who choose to wear more than a tabard.

There are very valid reasons why people may choose to wear more than a tabard:

* A hi viz hat band or hat cover allows motorists to spot riders over hedges down winding country lanes.

* Hi viz boots obviously move with the horses legs, and apparently studies have indicated that this movement catches the motorists eye quickly and alerts them to the fact that it is a moving animal.

* As others have said, hi viz on the horse itself is a wise precaution in case horse and rider become separated due to a fall.

So please don't be irresponsible and poke fun at those who are making sensible and valid choices for the safety of themselves, their horses and the general motoring public.
		
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Sensible advice as usual TGM


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## DougalJ (18 May 2012)

quirky said:



			Whatever 
Have been riding 26 and have never had what you would call a near miss. Maybe I am very lucky, but it takes no time to decide whether it is a good day to hack out and I shall carry on naively doing that . I am surprised other people don't assess the conditions to ride tbh .
If conditions aren't good, I go in the school. I'm lucky in that I don't have to hack out, I and my horse enjoy it immensely though 

Click to expand...

You have been very lucky Quirky. Perhaps if you have had to deal with a screech of brakes and a car inching beside you with the wing mirror catching your stirrup irons, you may think twice about popping on a little bit of hi-viz....


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## Silmarillion (18 May 2012)

Sorry I can't quote, but VERY well said TGM! Thank you!


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## Jesstickle (18 May 2012)

TGM said:



			Quirky and Llanerch - it is up to you what level of hi viz you use to hack out on your own horses, but I think what people are getting up in arms about is the *ridicule* you are directing at those who choose to wear more than a tabard.

There are very valid reasons why people may choose to wear more than a tabard:

* A hi viz hat band or hat cover allows motorists to spot riders over hedges down winding country lanes.

* Hi viz boots obviously move with the horses legs, and apparently studies have indicated that this movement catches the motorists eye quickly and alerts them to the fact that it is a moving animal.

* As others have said, hi viz on the horse itself is a wise precaution in case horse and rider become separated due to a fall.

So please don't be irresponsible and poke fun at those who are making sensible and valid choices for the safety of themselves, their horses and the general motoring public.
		
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Super post. You should send it in to H+H and win your self a bottle of Moet!


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## Arabelle (18 May 2012)

quirky said:



			Whatever 
Have been riding 26 and have never had what you would call a near miss. Maybe I am very lucky, but it takes no time to decide whether it is a good day to hack out and I shall carry on naively doing that . I am surprised other people don't assess the conditions to ride tbh .
If conditions aren't good, I go in the school. I'm lucky in that I don't have to hack out, I and my horse enjoy it immensely though 

Click to expand...


Don't assume that riders who take the sensible and courteous decision to wear Hi Viz 'don't assess the conditions to ride'.  Where did you get that assumption? 

You can make a sensible risk assessment and that can include an item of Hi Viz on your horse as well as yourself.  I actually happen to like all my horses, so I do wish to keep them safe, as well as myself.

I think I have been riding a wee bit longer than 26 years


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## PolarSkye (18 May 2012)

We are very lucky in that our livery yard has access straight onto Forrestry Commission land with no roadwork so many liveries hack out without hi-viz . . . until one of the liveries' horses bolted and came home (at a gallop) down the road that bisects the forest . . . a busy road frequented by HGVs!!!  Some tunes were changed sharpish.

I haven't read all of the comments but must say that I am baffled by the article . . . why would hi viz ever be a bad idea?

P


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## lannerch (18 May 2012)

I too have been very lucky and I have been riding 33 years and most of that without high viz at all!
( no so daft now ).
Poke fun me?
Does that not make me a troll again?
I just am very suspicious those lit up Christmas trees are doing it more for a fashion parade than actual safety .
Police do it as a deterant they want to be noticed as large as loud as they can!
Not all Christmas trees are nervous riders I did not say that although many are.
Although those that mollycoddle are often nervous personalities too they wrap everything up in cotton wool, without letting a horse be a horse.
If you want to look like a Christmas tree that's fine by me better than no hiviz but IMO totally unnecessary and probably highly uncomfortable for the horse.


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## Shantara (18 May 2012)

quirky said:



			Whatever 
Have been riding 26 and have never had what you would call a near miss. Maybe I am very lucky, but it takes no time to decide whether it is a good day to hack out and I shall carry on naively doing that . I am surprised other people don't assess the conditions to ride tbh .
If conditions aren't good, I go in the school. I'm lucky in that I don't have to hack out, I and my horse enjoy it immensely though 

Click to expand...

You have been so so lucky. I've had too many.
Also, I don't hack out if the conditions are bad, I've been avoiding taking Ned out because it's been rather windy. Had I a friend to ride out with, we would have gone out as the horses I ride are very good in pairs or larger groups, whatever the weather. I've no idea where you got that people did assess whether it's safe to ride :S I'm sure 99% of people here are capable of thinking "Doesn't look good, I shouldn't risk it"


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## Arabelle (18 May 2012)

lannerch said:



			I too have been very lucky and I have been riding 33 years and most of that without high viz at all!
( no so daft now ).
Poke fun me?
Does that not make me a troll again?
I just am very suspicious those lit up Christmas trees are doing it more for a fashion parade than actual safety .
Police do it as a deterant they want to be noticed as large as loud as they can!
Not all Christmas trees are nervous riders I did not say that although many are.
Although those that mollycoddle are often nervous personalities too they wrap everything up in cotton wool, without letting a horse be a horse.
If you want to look like a Christmas tree that's fine by me better than no hiviz but IMO totally unnecessary and probably highly uncomfortable for the horse.
		
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Most of my riding has been without Hi Viz - of course it has, riders never used to wear Hi Viz (or hats, or chin straps etc).

Times change, knowledge moves on.  We now have far more effective riding hats and know that Hi Viz on both horse and rider is an easy way to assist visability in a range of circumstances.

Why does is matter if some people are doing it as a 'fashions statement'?  It is assisting car drivers, farmers etc in seeing them and protecting them and their horse.  What is not to like


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## PolarSkye (18 May 2012)

quirky said:



			Are you for real?
I haven't got an agenda, unlike you .

I choose when I ride out. I won't ride out in a low winter sun, if visibility is bad, if the light is failing, if there are copious tractors about.
I risk assess every time I hack out. I do not and will not put myself in unnecessary danger. 
I am content that my hi viz tabbard is a sufficient warning to motorists.
		
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Honestly, I think most of us risk assess before we ride out - but none of us are psychic and, ultimately, the only things we have control over are ourselves.  I can't guarantee that the sun will go in (or come out) and create those harsh shadows that make it difficult for drivers to see.  Nor can I predict precisely how many and what sort of vehicles I might meet either in the forest or on the road.  Horses are flight animals.  Accidents happen.  Hi viz is simply a matter of mitigation and I, for one, am all for anything that reduces the risk of us not being seen . . . and increases the probability that we can both be found by emergency services should the unthinkable happen.

P


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## lannerch (18 May 2012)

Indeed hence I have no problem unfortunately they will be the butt of jokes from non horsey communities .


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## DougalJ (18 May 2012)

Fashion statement!! If we were looking to grace the catwalks I would probably not choose to don a hi- viz jacket complete with hat band believe you me.... I wear hi-viz not because I like wearing day glo yellow or pink - I wear it to save a potential accident on the roads with my horse. I thinks it's the other way round, the ones who do not wear hi viz are doing so because they want to look the part with their horses.


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## Dry Rot (18 May 2012)

Are the posts to this thread serious???

235 (sorry, 242 and rising!) posts since 3pm yesterday. I would say the journalist who raised this subject has done horse riders and other road users a great service.

Sometimes the best way to bring a subject out into the open and get people talking is to be a bit controversial, even facetious. 

I'd suggest that anyone who can't see that hi-vis is a "good thing" when riding (and the more the better) probably lacks the commonsense to be on a horse at all, let alone on the public road! 

Come on, folks, maybe H&H are stirring things up a bit to focus attention on the problem. The question is, did it work?

The ends sometimes justifies the means. Well done that journalist and well done H&H for publishing!


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## quirky (18 May 2012)

I object to being told I have ridiculed anybody. I have done no such thing.
Just because I don't agree doesn't equal ridicule.


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## Parker79 (18 May 2012)

Wow - cannot believe there are 2 people on here actually agreeing with H&H's statement.

To both of you....it must be nice being you, feeling in control of your surroundings and having the ability to predict the future! what a load of crap!
Wearing hi-vis is NOT something for nervous riders.

Most of us do assess the conditions before riding..... but then my powers to predict how many tractors will come out today are just simply not as good as yours 

A tabard is not enough...it is good but it is easy to be blinded by bright sun (and yes....some of us go out when its sunny! shock horror)


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## Ceris Comet (18 May 2012)

I don't believe for one minute that the author had the intelligence to think that way.
I sense an apology coming very soon


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## Spudlet (18 May 2012)

H&H isn't exactly noted for professionalism to be honest, so this is no surprise. Nor do many people read it for advice, IMO. All this article will do is confirm the prejudices of the tweedy brigade - I don't think anyone with a shred of common sense will change their attitude because of this. 

Personally I look down on riders without hi-viz as foolish and inconsiderate of others.


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## quirky (18 May 2012)

Booboss - yes, if conditions are bad I walk or don't go out unless I absolutely have to . 
If more people risk assessed, I'm sure there would be less accidents. I'm sure everybody had read an article and thought  what were they thinking . Darwin awards anybody ?


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## mtj (18 May 2012)

Dry Rot said:



			Are the posts to this thread serious???

235 (sorry, 242 and rising!) posts since 3pm yesterday. I would say the journalist who raised this subject has done horse riders and other road users a great service.

Sometimes the best way to bring a subject out into the open and get people talking is to be a bit controversial, even facetious. 

I'd suggest that anyone who can't see that hi-vis is a "good thing" when riding (and the more the better) probably lacks the commonsense to be on a horse at all, let alone on the public road! 

Come on, folks, maybe H&H are stirring things up a bit to focus attention on the problem. The question is, did it work?

The ends sometimes justifies the means. Well done that journalist and well done H&H for publishing!
		
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Confess, I did read this section of the article several times.  So surprised, thought the journo was possibly being ironic.  Unfortunately, if you read this in the context of the whole article, they appear to be serious.


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## Ranyhyn (18 May 2012)

Thank goodness I wouldn't take any notice of H&H magazines advice on ANYTHING anyway 

I am probably somewhere in the middle, I am happy to be wearing a hi-viz waistcoat.  Happier to be wearing one and the horse wearing some too and happiest to have a few items on between us.


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## Marydoll (18 May 2012)

Nice one H&H, did you seriously pay someone to write an article that spouts such utter tripe on wearing hi viz ?
There are so many impessionable teenagers out there who will think after reading this twaddle that its not cool to wear hi viz everyone will think im nervous or novicey, great job on knocking the safety cause back 20 yrs 
16 yrs ago, hacking on a beautiful summers day, without hi viz on, my friend and her horse were hit by a lorry and trailer .... I thought they were dead .
My horse bolted with hers when it got up and took flight.
I managed to get mine back and catch hers before reaching the main busy road, we were on a quiet straight bit of country road which was narrow with barley in full bloom both sides, the driver neither slowed down or stopped, he said he didnt see us, when i saw his vehicle turn into  a farm just along from us and sent the police there.
Police didnt prosecute as he  said he did slow down and his passenger agreed, they said it was our word against theres so no point !!
Ok if he did slow down, then he did see us, and hit her ??
Wouldnt even try on driving without due care and attention, or leaving the scene of an accident .... How can you not see 2 x half ton horses on a straight road in broad daylight ?? 
Lesson learned, horse wears fluorecent hi viz quarter sheet, martingale and leg wraps, i wear, tabard with flashing lights that can be on or off, in the winter i have a flashing light on horses tail, so yes i sport that christmas tree look, im not nervous or a novice, but thats not the point, and personally i dont give a flying fig about how others perceive me, the last  thing i want me or my horse to be wearing is an arse full of headlights .

Nobody will say they never seen me again


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## Vickijay (18 May 2012)

I'll add my bit to keep the thread going!

I very rarely hack out because we have 300 acres at home to ride on but when I do hack out I will always put on some dayglo Derrick attire. I don't care if I look silly, I'd rather drivers see me.

Also if there was a accident and we did get hit by a car I'd want to know that I had done everything in my power to prevent it. Imagine your horse being injured and you thinking "I wonder if I had put my dayglo sheet on if that would of happened"

Ps....I quite like pink hi viz


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## Ibblebibble (18 May 2012)

quirky said:



			Whatever 
Have been riding 26 and have never had what you would call a near miss. Maybe I am very lucky, but it takes no time to decide whether it is a good day to hack out and I shall carry on naively doing that . I am surprised other people don't assess the conditions to ride tbh .
If conditions aren't good, I go in the school. I'm lucky in that I don't have to hack out, I and my horse enjoy it immensely though 

Click to expand...

i'm a proper fair weather rider, i ride for fun not necessity so it is never necessary for me to ride in less than perfect weather with clear visibility, i too used to think hi viz was a bit pointless, i have a 17hh grey as my main ride, who could fail to see that glowing white arse(hers not mine!!) on a nice sunny day was my opinion. well apparently a driver of a 7.5t van on a perfectly straight stretch of road, mid summer in the middle of the day so no low sun dazzling him, he just wasn't concentrating on the road as he was looking for his next drop address. saw me at the last minute, swerved to avoid me, hit the bushes and trees on his side of the road which made an awful racket scraping along the side of the van at 60mph and scared my mare witless, she tried to jump up on the verge and landed on her knees 
Now i wear a tabbard and horse wears legs wraps and on cooler days a hi viz sheet, i drive that road as well as ride on it and it shocked me how invisible riders can be on a straight road if they have no hi viz!  just a tabbard is not enough imo, it doesn't differentiate you from a cyclist soon enough, and on a 60mph road you want every extra second you can get to be noticed!!


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## catkin (18 May 2012)

QUOTE 'If you want to look like a Christmas tree that's fine by me better than no hiviz but IMO totally unnecessary and probably highly uncomfortable for the horse.'


Err - why should hi-viz be uncomfortable for the horse? Leg bands are not so very different to brushing boots, quarter sheets are quarter sheets whether hi-viz or witney blanketing, get the right tail guard and it will fit fine. (Believe it or not some of us DO actually know how to fit tack and equipment and get the correct size....)

I am old enough to remember riding _sans_ hi-viz, hats etc but these days I would not actually take my horses out on even quiet roads without, especially the legwraps which certainly catch a motorists eye.

As for ridicule - well I can honestly say I have never heard any adverse comments from either riders or drivers on our appearance, just an occasional comment that we were easy to see coming.


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## touchstone (18 May 2012)

catkin said:



			QUOTE 'If you want to look like a Christmas tree that's fine by me better than no hiviz but IMO totally unnecessary and probably highly uncomfortable for the horse.'


Err - why should hi-viz be uncomfortable for the horse? Leg bands are not so very different to brushing boots, quarter sheets are quarter sheets whether hi-viz or witney blanketing, get the right tail guard and it will fit fine. (Believe it or not some of us DO actually know how to fit tack and equipment and get the correct size....)

I am old enough to remember riding _sans_ hi-viz, hats etc but these days I would not actually take my horses out on even quiet roads without, especially the legwraps which certainly catch a motorists eye.

As for ridicule - well I can honestly say I have never heard any adverse comments from either riders or drivers on our appearance, just an occasional comment that we were easy to see coming.
		
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I agree, the only time I've had a problem with hi viz is when my horse spooked at her own reflection in a window when wearing it.


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## TTK (18 May 2012)

Firewell said:



			Christmas tree! Imagine driving across this pair on this day down a country lane with no high vis on or just a grubby tabbard. Probably wouldn't even see them.







People may say high vis is just for novices but experienced riders bleed and break and die the same as novice riders. When a car breaks suddenly, looses control and skids because they havent seen you untill its too late, it doesnt matter if its a novice on a hairy cob or pippa funnell on an event horse, if your going to get hit, you'll get hit.
		
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Hey Firewell, what make is that jacket? I want one.


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## Marydoll (18 May 2012)

Having thought about the comment that wearing plenty of hi viz stuff makes riders look "novicey and scared"  in my 40 yrs of horses, id say some of the best, brave, skilled riders ive come across are the hackers who take on a multitude of hazards on roads, in gardens, and in the air ,my friend recently encountering a herd of sabre toothed sheep, or at least thats what her horse saw  especially the riders who introduce young horses to their first hacking experiences .... My alltime favourite, a helicopter taking off from behind a hedge at a local country hotel  my mare didnt bat an eyelid, on the other hand, meeting a pony and trap near gave her apoplexy, she was spinning like a top trying to get away


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## Tinypony (18 May 2012)

My view is that the comment in the article is irresponsible and naive.
For those who say that you don't need high viz on a nice day...  Sunlight and shadows are lethal.  When approaching a string of riders along a leafy lane in the sunshine the only thing I notices at a distance of about 50 yards was a blob of pink bobbing up and down.  As they got closer the people and horses wearing high viz yellow started to come into view.  The lady on the bay with nothing was in severe danger of being run into without her friends to protect her.  A car covers a lot of distance in seconds.
I ride on my own in woodland and wear high viz for that as well.  If pony and I were to part company, I'd quite like to be clearly visible in the bush where I've landed.
The bottom line is - what's the harm?  It's not going to damage rider or horse if they go out wearing bright colours, so simply - why not?  Afraid your bums might look too big in it?


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## Marydoll (18 May 2012)

DaffyAppy said:



			Hey Firewell, what make is that jacket? I want one.
		
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Yep i like that jacket as well


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## Tinypony (18 May 2012)

... if we could get one of those big flashing signs with our names on, like the ones in the motorbike aware adverts, I think pony and I would happily ride along in that!


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## SplashofSoy (18 May 2012)

The articles as a whole has a point, we do moddy coddle our horses, many are leisure horses who dont need extra hard feeds, hundreds of layers of rugs and the like but when it comes to hi viz i think they went too far. 

One of our yard rules in our contract is that you must always wear as a minimum a hi viz tabbard if you are leaving the yard to hack.  In order to access bridleways you have to go on a public road, it is a very quiet village and no commuter traffic etc but is on a bus route.  I tend to just wear a tabbard and i do have a hat band but dont usually put it on.  Also have a hi viz quarter sheet to wear in winter when horse is clipped and its raining/cold and also if the visibility/light is not 100%. 

I have no problem with people wearing loads of hi viz if they want to, even if i dont, just as i dont cover my horse in dead sheep or wear pink jods!  I do agree with our yard rule that a tabbard is a minimum, it doest demonstrate novice/scarred behaviour its just sense to make yourself visable.  I compete  and hunt as well as hack and am not nervous or scared of traffic.


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## Toby_Zaphod (18 May 2012)

Unfortunately I haven't read H&H this week so can only go by the extracts posted on this thread. From what I have seen at least they actually advocate the wearing of a tabard which is a plus................... but to not advocate anything else is very poor judgement.

It appears that it was an ill advised piece of journalism & I would hope that in next weeks magasine there is some comment/retraction/clarification by the editor.


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## Bikerchickone (18 May 2012)

Crazy suggestion by H&H! Couldn't believe it when I read the article. I have most of the Polite gear and can confirm it does make a huge difference to how drivers approach us. I have hat band and waistcoat and my horse has leg wraps, exercise sheet and neck strap. I'm not particularly keen on pink so it's all yellow but it does its job. 

Utterly irresponsible to print an opinion like that!


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## Amymay (18 May 2012)

Really interesting discussion.

I have a fantastic Musto coat which is bright yellow that I wear in the winter.  In the summer, unless it's dull I don't put on a tabard - because I can be clearly seen.

I've never put a quarter sheet, or otherwise on the horse because I tend never to ride in these anyway (so hot and uncomfortable for the horse).


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## Marydoll (18 May 2012)

Tinypony said:



			... if we could get one of those big flashing signs with our names on, like the ones in the motorbike aware adverts, I think pony and I would happily ride along in that!
		
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Nah im no wearing that, itll catch in the trees


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## Horses24-7 (18 May 2012)

Shocking that such a reputable magazine prints such a ridiculous comment


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## Marydoll (18 May 2012)

amymay said:



			Really interesting discussion.

I have a fantastic Musto coat which is bright yellow that I wear in the winter.  In the summer, unless it's dull I don't put on a tabard - because I can be clearly seen.

I've never put a quarter sheet, or otherwise on the horse because I tend never to ride in these anyway (so hot and uncomfortable for the horse).
		
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Yea, i thought the same about riding in the summer ..... broad daylight on a straight road, my mates horse was still hit by a truck that " didnt see us ".
Many insurances wont pay out on accidents now unless you have some sort of hi viz on, there are mesh tabards and  quarter sheets that are very effective and cool for the horse and rider, but i respect its your choice, your horses and your life, i feel sorry for the person in the car that might not see you until its to late though


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## Biscuit (18 May 2012)

This sounds silly. A horse would surely be the most vulnerable to traffic in a situation where the rider has fallen off. This can and does happen.

Anyway, in the dark/poor visibility I think it is helpful to have hi viz leg straps on the horse & those reflective plastic disks on the outside of the stirrups - it makes it instantly apparent that it is not just a person with a tabard on, and drivers see very clearly how far the horse is into the road.


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## Jesstickle (18 May 2012)

amymay said:



			Really interesting discussion.

I have a fantastic Musto coat which is bright yellow that I wear in the winter.  In the summer, unless it's dull I don't put on a tabard - because I can be clearly seen.

I've never put a quarter sheet, or otherwise on the horse because I tend never to ride in these anyway (so hot and uncomfortable for the horse).
		
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O amymay. Please wear something. I would miss you if something were to happen to you! 

I totally respect that it is your decision but as I like you (as much as one can ever like a person they only converse with online) I'm going to ask anyway.

What about something like this ( you can get them on ebay for less money) they aren't uncomfortable for the horse and take about 20 seconds to put on?

http://www.highvisibility.uk.com/equisafety/reflective-adjustable-neck-band

These are expensive but one of the girls on the yard has one and it's certainly visible, also takes no extra time to put on and isn't uncomfortable in any way to the horse

http://www.highvisibility.uk.com/polite/polite-saddle-cloth


If you're too hot in a tabbard in summer why not look into the cycling/running stuff. Stuff like this

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/dhb-ladies-corefit-long-sleeve-hi-viz-base-layer/


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## Amymay (18 May 2012)

marydoll said:



			Yea, i thought the same about riding in the summer ..... broad daylight on a straight road, my mates horse was still hit by a truck that " didnt see us ".
Many insurances wont pay out on accidents now unless you have some sort of hi viz on, there are mesh tabards and  quarter sheets that are very effective and cool for the horse and rider, but i respect its your choice, your horses and your life, i feel sorry for the person in the car that might not see you until its to late though 

Click to expand...

I suspect the lorry still wouldn't 'have seen' the horse, even if they'd had a tabard on, tbh.  

And remember, a lot of our 'safety' is about ensuring we use the road correctly, and with awareness.

I'm not aware of any instances of insurance refusing to pay out if you're not wearing hi viz.


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## Amymay (18 May 2012)

O amymay. Please wear something. I would miss you if something were to happen to you!
		
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Bless you Jess xx


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## benson21 (18 May 2012)

Maybe not insurance, but as I have said before in other threads (so sorry if you have seen this before!) the police told me that if I wasnt wearing hi vis, the driver that hit us and killed Benson 'could' of claimed he didnt see us, therefore getting an even lighter sentence ((if thats possible!!!)


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## ester (18 May 2012)

I am finding the concept of hi viz being a fashion statement . . . somewhat   




 

I don't use a quarter sheet in summer but there is no way that franks martingale neck band or his one strip felt leg bands are uncomfortable to him. In fact I use the leg bands because his legs do not do well under boots!


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## Daffodil (18 May 2012)

I'm going to buck the trend here and say I can understand where the writer is coming from on this.      I'm all for hi-viz and wear a tabard or fluorescent fleece, and my horse has his fl. polypad.  He also goes hacking in white brushing boots.

But really, you should see some of the people on my yard!!   Pink browbands, nosebands, rein tabs, brushing boots, neck straps, exercise sheets, numnahs and tail bandages, tabards and things that go on hats.  This is all on one horse, pretty much all at once!

It does sometimes hurt the eyes!


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## Ruth_Cymru (18 May 2012)

I shall continue to help keep myself and my horse as safe as possible.  If that means people think I'm a novice/all about the fashion statement/a yellow banana, then that's just fine, my safety and that of my horses' is what's important to me, not other peoples oppinions 







As an aside- the mesh sheet he wears is great for keeping the flies off in summer as well


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## ester (18 May 2012)

lannerch said:



			Indeed hence I have no problem unfortunately they will be the butt of jokes from non horsey communities .
		
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I also don't understand this statement? I don't know of anyone in the non horse community who thinks it odd/amusing for us to be decked out in hi vis.


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## Queenbee (18 May 2012)

Golly gosh!!!! A whole 26 yrs!!!!  *swoons in utter admiration*  

I'll bet there are plenty of people who rode their entire life without wearing any reflectve gear and never had even a near miss, and lived to a ripe old age, this does not make them special, clever or wise, and it does not mean they did the best they could with regards to safety.


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## Littlelegs (18 May 2012)

My daughter & her pony wear practically head to toe pink even without hi viz, couldn't care less if it hurts someones eyes, she likes it so nobody else's business. So I extend the same courtesy to an adult who chooses to overkill on hi viz.


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## Jesstickle (18 May 2012)

amymay said:



			Bless you Jess xx
		
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Well I would. Don't leave me here with all the *whispers* fluffy bunnies!


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## Amymay (18 May 2012)

jesstickle said:



			Well I would. Don't leave me here with all the *whispers* fluffy bunnies!
		
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## sula (18 May 2012)

I second the suggestion of using cycling gear when riding.  I have a hi-viz vest from a cycling shop which has yellow and orange on it - the latter gives better visibility in fog and poor light apparently which is why rail workers etc have been tangoed!


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## sidewaysonacob (18 May 2012)

one of the girls on my yard has made a deal with her husband - he'll always wear his helmet mountain biking if she always wears a hiviz tabard (and, obvs a hat) to hack


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## TGM (18 May 2012)

quirky said:



			I see the 'lit up like a Christmas tree' hi-vizers as being nervous riders, rightly or wrongly, who want to draw as much attention to themselves as possible as they can't cope with traffic coming past at even a reduced speed.
		
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Well, personally, I think the above comment is ridiculing those whose chose to wear plenty of hi viz.


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## Rowreach (18 May 2012)

All our hacking is off road, I *never* ride on the road, and I still have plenty of hi viz on me/horse/child/pony.  I ride and teach for a living, so I wouldn't call myself a nervous rider, but so what if I was??  What is so wrong about being a novice or nervous rider??  Hey we all had to start somewhere 

I've read the whole thread and, forgive me if I missed it, but nobody has mentioned that wearing hiviz not only makes the horse and rider safer, but also other road users, not all of whom are idiots like some riders assume   So imo there are plenty of reasons why it's more sensible to wear as much of it as you can.

Personally I found the entire article offensive, patronising and scathing.  There are some valid points there (not the hiviz one obviously) but the way the article is written is shameful, and not worthy of a mag like H&H.  I imagine some of the people interviewed for it will be writhing with embarrassment today.


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## AshTay (18 May 2012)

If drivers think a rider is a joke for wearing loads of hi viz then that's great because it means he's SEEN you!!!!! 

He/she might then speed past you laughing but people like that are the sort of people who probably would have sped straight into you if they hadn't seen you in the first place!

And as for judging other people's riding ability by the amount of hi viz they wear: a true horseperson will recognise good/bad/nervous riding by seeing the rider themselves, not by what the rider is wearing. If someone is riding out in a top that says "Whitaker" on it, do people assume the rider is a top showjumper??!!


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## Mike007 (18 May 2012)

sula said:



			I second the suggestion of using cycling gear when riding.  I have a hi-viz vest from a cycling shop which has yellow and orange on it - the latter gives better visibility in fog and poor light apparently which is why rail workers etc have been tangoed!






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Absolutely correct. A combination of Red/Orange ,and yellow ,is much more visible. traditional High viz can make you harder to see in some circumstances . Bright sunlight through trees for example. I do a lot of lorry driving on narrow country lanes and just love riders in high viz. Regardless of how carefully I drive,it gives me an extra few moments of time to slow . It also works in the riders favour when they want to cross a road. Because I can see them from so much further away, I have time to stop and let them cross. I confess that 20 years ago I thought high viz was for wimps, Maybe I have become one of those nervous riders Personaly I think the roads are so fast and dangerous now that we all need to use the stuff.


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## HHO admin (18 May 2012)

Dear forum members

The article in question appears in the 17 May issue and is not available to read online. It is part of an excellent magazine that features brilliant photographs and reports from The Queen's Diamond Jubilee pageant, Royal Windsor Horse Show, a fascinating vet piece on new ways to treat joint problems, and this feature that so many of you are commenting on, despite most not having read it.

If you had read it I am sure that you would agree that the feature is full of sound advice from experts who see far too many horses swaddled in excessive rugs in warm weather and so on. It also advocates safe hacking, though queries (in one half of a sentence only) if there is a point at which high-viz kit becomes over the top. Clearly many of you disagree with this point, but it always good to encourage debate on these matters, which in turn helps educate more individuals.

For those of you who have not seen the magazine please do grab yourself a copy of the issue and read this entertaining and thought provoking piece in full, rather than lambasting it unseen. If you would like to comment further than do send us a submission for our letters page at hhletters@ipcmedia.com 

Regards, Lucy Higginson


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## AshTay (18 May 2012)

HHO admin said:



			Dear forum members

The article in question appears in the 17 May issue and is not available to read online. It is part of an excellent magazine that features brilliant photographs and reports from The Queen's Diamond Jubilee pageant, Royal Windsor Horse Show, a fascinating vet piece on new ways to treat joint problems, and this feature that so many of you are commenting on, despite most not having read it.

If you had read it I am sure that you would agree that the feature is full of sound advice from experts who see far too many horses swaddled in excessive rugs in warm weather and so on. It also advocates safe hacking, though queries (in one half of a sentence only) if there is a point at which high-viz kit becomes over the top. Clearly many of you disagree with this point, but it always good to encourage debate on these matters, which in turn helps educate more individuals.

For those of you who have not seen the magazine please do grab yourself a copy of the issue and read this entertaining and thought provoking piece in full, rather than lambasting it unseen. If you would like to comment further than do send us a submission for our letters page at hhletters@ipcmedia.com 

Regards, Lucy Higginson
		
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I've read it. No one is debating the rest of the article (or the quality of the issue in it's entirety). The sentence in question clearly implies that there is such a thing as "too much hi viz" (which goes against all equestrian road safety advice) and that a vest alone is sufficient (the use of the word "prudent" also undermines the importance of wearing any hi viz at al).
A disappointing response and I'm sure there will be lots of submissions for the letter page.


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## JFTDWS (18 May 2012)

My second, unhelpful,  contribution to this thread is a complaint about the difficulty of acquiring mesh hi vis quarter sheets, especially in orange (since when you're wearing mesh, the rape is yellow and yellow is useless!).  

It is somewhat relevant to points about horse comfort in summer - some round here do go out on hot days in full thickness sheets, which is fine if you're just going for a wander, but not at all appropriate for fast work.



Dry Rot said:



			I'd suggest that anyone who can't see that hi-vis is a "good thing" when riding (and the more the better) probably lacks the commonsense to be on a horse at all, let alone on the public road!
		
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Unless they're round your way and bump into Foxy...  Whilst carrying a clipboard?


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## catwithclaws (18 May 2012)

AshTay said:



			I've read it. No one is debating the rest of the article (or the quality of the issue in it's entirety). The sentence in question clearly implies that there is such a thing as "too much hi viz" (which goes against all equestrian road safety advice) and that a vest alone is sufficient (the use of the word "prudent" also undermines the importance of wearing any hi viz at al).
A disappointing response and I'm sure there will be lots of submissions for the letter page.
		
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agreed


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## Meowy Catkin (18 May 2012)

I agree AshTay.

Also the Bertie Basset comment was quite derogatory and will not make it any easier to persuade reluctant teens to put safety over looks.

Re the comments about yellow Hi-viz and oil seed rape fields, I agree with that too. A combination of yellow/pink or yellow/orange helps you stand out against more backgrounds and is therefore better and safer than yellow alone.


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## mtj (18 May 2012)

Ashtay sums up my view perfectly.

Sorry, but the Bertie Bassett comment comes over as a rather superior sneer.  Sad, the rest of the article is good.


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## kerilli (18 May 2012)

I was incensed by that comment, can't have too much of a good thing, and ANYTHING that warns drivers that you're there is good. I'm not a nervous rider at all, but i'm terrified of a vehicle coming past me fast at just the moment a duck flies out of a drainage dyke beside me...  anything to slow them down is great. I don't care if the driver thinks I'm a nervy numpty as long as they slow down and keep my horses safe.

The other comment that riled me in that article was ridiculing people who call their horses' feeds Breakfast, Lunch and Dinner. Erm, what?! I'm not saying I'm giving them a fry up fgs, but Breakfast = morning feed, no? I don't think that makes me a numpty either!
Totally agree with all the crit of over-rugging though, it's better for a horse to be slightly on the chilly side (can run around to keep warm, or eat, or shiver even, all warming-up strategies) but an overheated horse in rugs cannot cool down... that is cruel.


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## dollymix (18 May 2012)

catwithclaws said:



			agreed
		
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me too...perhaps not the most diplomatic response :/


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## Patterdale (18 May 2012)

Good Lord this threads nearly as long as the Brooke one........not quite so entertaining though yet!


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## Llewellyn (18 May 2012)

Love the idea of a horse blushing with embarrassment!
99% sure horses don't get embarrassed or blush!

So that just leaves the embarrassed rider and, well, if you think its 'not cool' wearing something that could save your life but you think makes you look silly you really need to take yourself less seriously and stop worrying what other people think. I believe most people achieve this before they reach adulthood.

P.s. while this post contains nothing of value I hope it helps boost this to most discussed topics.


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## Ranyhyn (18 May 2012)

The customer isn't always right, didn't you know


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## Molasses (18 May 2012)

BoolavogueDC said:



			The customer isn't always right, didn't you know  

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lol!
Yes silly us, and so many us too!


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## Meowy Catkin (18 May 2012)

mtj said:



			Ashtay sums up my view perfectly.

Sorry, but the Bertie Bassett comment comes over as a rather superior sneer.  Sad, the rest of the article is good.
		
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Yes, I did think 'what a snob' when I read that comment.


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## Feathered (18 May 2012)

Bit of a disappointing response there from h&h. Quite a lot of us had read the magazine and the article in question and have no problems with it apart from the "bertie Bassett" crack. 

I don't wear tons of hi viz, a hat band, tabard and neck strap on normal days. But surely if it's not causing any harm only helping yourself and other road users, what could be the problem!


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## AshTay (18 May 2012)

I also think that encouraging everyone to go out and buy the issue to read the article firsthand is in poor taste as it will only serve to boost sales and draw attention to the statement.

I would have liked to have seen a response along the lines of "Sorry, we can see how this may have been (mis?)interpreted and the implications and we regret this and this statement does not reflect the view of H+H. We will run an article in a coming issue to emphasise the importance of hi viz."

Just a suggestion


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## ester (18 May 2012)

JFTD said:



			My second, unhelpful,  contribution to this thread is a complaint about the difficulty of acquiring mesh hi vis quarter sheets, especially in orange (since when you're wearing mesh, the rape is yellow and yellow is useless!).
		
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we don't have an OSR problem round here, I might try and make my own though  

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1m-Fluore...Textiles_SM&hash=item20c4a53a14#ht_2133wt_952


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## ozpoz (18 May 2012)

I'm also going to buck the trend here - I've read the article now, and there is a lot of sense there. 
I feel many people are missing the point completely ( sorry) which is that gadgets and gimmicks marketed at riders have overtaken our desire to use common sense, develop our own horse sense, knowledge and skills, and maybe then we are able to make choices about how to prepare our horses and ourselves before riding.
I don't ride on roads any more - I fail to see how a reflective anything is going to keep me safe from idiots who do 60mph round a blind corner on the narrow roads near me.I did wear a tabard when I used to ride on roads.

whispers.. I don't wear one to hack out - I like to look at nature, up close and enjoy the views without upsetting the local gamekeepers by being 'loud' in the woods!  

so shoot me now


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## Meowy Catkin (18 May 2012)

I'm sure that orange mesh quarter sheets would sell well, especially if they were as good as the old V-bandz ones that they don't make anymore.


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## undertheweather (18 May 2012)

I encourage you all to sign this petition, regarding high visibility clothing for vulnerable road users such as cyclists and horse riders.

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/34110


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## Meowy Catkin (18 May 2012)

I feel many people are missing the point completely ( sorry) which is that gadgets and gimmicks marketed at riders have overtaken our desire to use common sense, develop our own horse sense, knowledge and skills, and maybe then we are able to make choices about how to prepare our horses and ourselves before riding.
		
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I think that you have missed the point. No-one has rubbished the whole article, just the Bertie Basset comment. Surely it is common sense to put Hi-viz on both yourself and the horse if you are going out onto the busy roads or indeed off-road (easier for RAF to spot you, easier to be found by air ambulance if something awful does happen)?


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## benson21 (18 May 2012)

ozpoz said:



			whispers.. I don't wear one to hack out - I like to look at nature, up close and enjoy the views without upsetting the local gamekeepers by being 'loud' in the woods!  

so shoot me now 

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But preferably dont shoot her out in the woods on a hack, cos the air ambulance wouldnt be able to find you!!!


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## Meowy Catkin (18 May 2012)

benson21 said:



			But preferably dont shoot her out in the woods on a hack, cos the air ambulance wouldnt be able to find you!!!

Click to expand...


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## BBP (18 May 2012)

I haven't read all the replies, but if me wearing too much hi-viz is molly-coddling my pony, then I am proud to do so.  If I have an accident on the road i don't want it to be because someone couldn't see me, that would be totally unfair on both my horse and the driver involved.  No, it won't save me from idiot drivers who don't care, but it might give the ones who do care an extra second to react to seeing us.  What would you see in these pictures if it wasn't for the high viz?










He had all this on just to cross the road to the arena on a gloomy winter morning.


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## flyingfeet (18 May 2012)

ozpoz said:



			whispers.. I don't wear one to hack out - I like to look at nature, up close and enjoy the views without upsetting the local gamekeepers by being 'loud' in the woods!  

so shoot me now 

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Actually that is an issue - you could get accidentally shot, wearing hi viz reduces the chances of accidents. Americans wear hi viz when stalking to avoid being shot by other hunters, then again Americans do have a rep of shooting anything that moves. 

I will admit I don't always wear hi viz, but I would never criticize anyone who did, as drivers tend to go faster (and far too fast on country lanes), anything than can give more reaction time, can never be a bad thing 

As H&H deem my sport un-newsworthy (GB medals and first SLR lady winner at Royal Windsor), they will never get another sub from me and frankly I can flick through it in under 1 minute in Tesco for all the "content" now in there

You've got to wonder if they've hired a bunch of Chelsea twits in London and hence why they have reporters that can spout something so stupid, and editors that don't bother reading content or don't care 

RIP H&H at this rate - hope IPC media have a "redundancy review" in light of declining sales.


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## quirky (18 May 2012)

Queenbee said:



			Golly gosh!!!! A whole 26 yrs!!!!  *swoons in utter admiration*  

I'll bet there are plenty of people who rode their entire life without wearing any reflectve gear and never had even a near miss, and lived to a ripe old age, this does not make them special, clever or wise, and it does not mean they did the best they could with regards to safety.
		
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Right, for the stupid amongst us, I will say it one more time.
I *do* wear a hi viz tabbard and have been for at least the last 15 years.
I choose not to put hi viz on my horse.

Why change what isn't broken


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## ozpoz (18 May 2012)

Faracat said:



			I think that you have missed the point. No-one has rubbished the whole article, just the Bertie Basset comment. Surely it is common sense to put Hi-viz on both yourself and the horse if you are going out onto the busy roads or indeed off-road (easier for RAF to spot you, easier to be found by air ambulance if something awful does happen)?
		
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I haven't missed the point of the article, my sense of humour is still intact.

I live in quite a remote, by some standards, part of the country. The geography is such that my friends , neighbours or whippet would find me before any airborne search and rescue would be launched, and, at my age, I'm not so sure I'm worth the fuel! (or the embarrassment)


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## benson21 (18 May 2012)

quirky said:



			Right, for the stupid amongst us, I will say it one more time.
I *do* wear a hi viz tabbard and have been for at least the last 15 years.
I choose not to put hi viz on my horse.

Why change what isn't broken 

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I get it now.
So, if you fall off on the road, the drivers will be able to see you on the ground, but not your horse which is loose on the road.


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## armchair_rider (18 May 2012)

I think it's a shame that such a stupid comment found it's way into an otherwise sensible article (and yes I have read it)

Just because you can buy 30 different rugs for your horse doesn't mean you need to
He probably doesn't need 20 different supplements either

However... Whilst covering yourself and your horse in hi-vis might not be necessary unlike over-rugging and over-feeding it isn't going to do any harm. There's certainly a case for questioning whether it's effective to coat yourself in hi vis of one colour but it's downright stupid to suggest there's no need for hi vis at all/ that a tabard alone is adequate.


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## quirky (18 May 2012)

TGM said:



			Well, personally, I think the above comment is ridiculing those whose chose to wear plenty of hi viz.

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Nope, not ridicule. I say it as I see it.

I pass one rider who wears an orange hi viz coat, with added yellow armbands. She has the same orange cover on her hat with a yellow band.

She has rein things and leg straps on the horse.

When driving towards her, her face looks like a rabbit caught in headlights .

A girl on our yard is similarly togged up (not so much on her, more on the horse) and she admits to being scared witless of hacking out.
They are the only 2 riders I pass who are done up 'like Christmas trees' .

Maybe 2 riders isn't really enough to pass judgment but I have anyway


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## pip6 (18 May 2012)

Daft comment but I'm not unduly surprised. Without wishing to slate a sector, it is a hunting orientated magazine (clue in the title), & I get driven to distraction where I live (Cornwall - Devon border) but hunt members hacking to meets or exercising their horses all wearing neutral colours. I neally ran into one this spring, it was a sunny day, straight road, chestnut horse, I didn't see her until the very last second because she blended into the shadows / sun so well. It's just not the 'done thing' for the hunters around here to wear any hi-viz whatsoever. Do they think they live in a magic bubble protecting them from vehicular traffic? Do they think so little of their lives & their horses that they wouldn't be seen dead in hi-viz (no, actually they'll be seen dead in browns & tweeds). So I'm actually more shocked a hunting magazine suggested wearing any hi-viz at all.

Bertie Basset, in coat, hat band & exercise rug.

p.s., horse has 2 rugs, no supplpements & does endurance so defiately no excess blubber.


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## Meowy Catkin (18 May 2012)

Quirky, you are naughty - stirring in such a way!


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## quirky (18 May 2012)

benson21 said:



			I get it now.
So, if you fall off on the road, the drivers will be able to see you on the ground, but not your horse which is loose on the road.
		
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Yes, they will see her, unless they are blind, in which case they shouldn't be driving.

As Amymay said, I don't think any amount of hi viz will prevent her getting hit if the worst was to happen.

Look how many cyclists die on the road each year and how much hi viz they wear.

I think people are absolutely deluded if they think a bit of hi viz on their horse is going to prevent an accident. If having it on lulls riders into a false sense of security, then more fool them.
As I said before (and will say again ), risk assess at all times


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## Shantara (18 May 2012)

I can see why over the top molly-coddling would be bad (Over rugging, over feeding etc..) but if someone wants to dress their horse up and the horse doesn't care, Who else should?!
I have put a heart on Ned's browband, a heart tag (his ID), tassels on his bit and sometimes I put flowers and feathers in his hair (and rhythm beads!) 
Ned couldn't care less. So why should anyone esle?

I dress him up in as much hi-viz as I can find and as I posted before, am on the lookout for a lighter mesh sheet.

Also on the subject of molly-coddling, does baby talk count? I often cuddle him around the neck and say stuff like "Oooh, who's my little squidgy-woo? Who's getting huggles? Neddy-noo is!" and other such rubbish, but he gets a loud, firm voice if he's naughty.

So long as the horse doesn't suffer for it, molly-coddling is fine and dandy if you ask me!


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## quirky (18 May 2012)

Faracat said:



			Quirky, you are naughty - stirring in such a way! 

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But, but, but .....


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## Ruth_Cymru (18 May 2012)

quirky said:



			Maybe 2 riders isn't really enough to pass judgment but I have anyway 

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and you are entirely entitled to your opinion, but just to reasure you, there are people out there who like their luminous and at the same time are confident with hacking their horses out and being able to control them (I'm one of them)


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## ester (18 May 2012)

well yes it is all about minimising the risk of an accident and giving yourself the best chance, not preventing one. 

The girl you say uses the orange and yellow seems like she is following the suggestion earlier on that an orange and yellow combination works very well with regards to visibility. What you describe certainly doesn't seem ott to me anyway (well apart fro the  rabbit in headlights look  .. maybe she always looks like that!)


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## AshTay (18 May 2012)

quirky said:



			Nope, not ridicule. I say it as I see it.

I pass one rider who wears an orange hi viz coat, with added yellow armbands. She has the same orange cover on her hat with a yellow band.

She has rein things and leg straps on the horse.

When driving towards her, her face looks like a rabbit caught in headlights .

A girl on our yard is similarly togged up (not so much on her, more on the horse) and she admits to being scared witless of hacking out.
They are the only 2 riders I pass who are done up 'like Christmas trees' .

Maybe 2 riders isn't really enough to pass judgment but I have anyway 

Click to expand...

This post actually says a lot more about you than it does about riders in general who wear lots of hi viz. 

My view is that the degree of hi viziness (?) appears to negatively correlate better with arrogance than it does with experience/ability. I base this on a pitifully small number of encounters with riders of varying degrees of viziness and draw this conclusion based on how many smile and wave (if I'm riding past) or say thank you (if I'm driving past) and how many don't. In my experience as a rider, car driver and motorcyclist, riders with more hi viz are more likely to be courteous back to drivers thus promoting rider-driver mutual respect.
Although arrogance and ability might also be correlated therefore confounding the association of viziness and ability.


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## Molasses (18 May 2012)

This thread is wonderful!
I applaud all the Bertie on here and I doubly applaud your pride in seeking to protect you and your horses. Not that long ago most of us didnt own a stitch of high-viz. If nothing else its wonderful to read peoples strong opinions on this topic. For yourself, your horse and other other road users its so nice to hear responsible folk being vocal about such an important issue. 

Come on H&H  - read between the lines! We all get the mollycoddling message but we are offended at one particular line that appears to endorse an out of date, backward and unhelpful opinion.


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## ozpoz (18 May 2012)

Jen_Cots said:



			Actually that is an issue - you could get accidentally shot, wearing hi viz reduces the chances of accidents. Americans wear hi viz when stalking to avoid being shot by other hunters, then again Americans do have a rep of shooting anything that moves. 

I will admit I don't always wear hi viz, but I would never criticize anyone who did, as drivers tend to go faster (and far too fast on country lanes), anything than can give more reaction time, can never be a bad thing 

As H&H deem my sport un-newsworthy (GB medals and first SLR lady winner at Royal Windsor), they will never get another sub from me and frankly I can flick through it in under 1 minute in Tesco for all the "content" now in there

You've got to wonder if they've hired a bunch of Chelsea twits in London and hence why they have reporters that can spout something so stupid, and editors that don't bother reading content or don't care 

RIP H&H at this rate - hope IPC media have a "redundancy review" in light of declining sales.
		
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 Jencots - I get a list of shooting days from the gamekeepers every year so I can avoid disruption to them,as I live to live in harmony with my neighbours. I don't ride out on /near roads. 
I read the article in H+H. I enjoyed the tongue in cheek style which I find is often missing/ deemed inapropriate nowadays.


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## benson21 (18 May 2012)

ester said:



			well yes it is all about minimising the risk of an accident and giving yourself the best chance, not preventing one. 

QUOTE]

absolutely, but surely its about 'minimising the risk of an accident and giving yourself and anything in your charge, i.e your horse,the best chance.

Click to expand...


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## AshTay (18 May 2012)

quirky said:



			I think people are absolutely deluded if they think a bit of hi viz on their horse is going to prevent an accident. If having it on lulls riders into a false sense of security, then more fool them.
As I said before (and will say again ), risk assess at all times 

Click to expand...

To risk assess you would consider what the risks are (being hit by a driver) and what you could do to minimise said risks. It's indisputable that wearing hi viz means drivers see you sooner. If a driver sees you sooner and is able to break/take evasive action sooner then it decreases the risk they will hit you. Simple. No, hi viz will not prevent all accidents but it can prevent some. You've stated that you wear hi viz so you clearly believe this so why would it only apply if the rider were mounted - do the same rules not apply to a loose horse? Or is just not possible that a horse and rider (including yourself) could become separated out on a hack.

I'm sat here laughing at myself because I frequently forget to put anything on my horse (I always put my tabard on because it's over my bridle so I don't forget) and yet I'm spouting all this!

I don't see the *point* in wearing EVERY conceivable item of hi viz all at the same time as I think you reach saturation point after so much but it's totally not on to ridicule people who choose to wear more (as it does no harm to anyone so no one has the right to make them feel bad or stupid for it). And it's also not acceptable to undermine the use of hi viz at all or suggest that it should be kept to a minimum. That's my gripe with the article in question.


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## Flame_ (18 May 2012)

quirky said:



			I think people are absolutely deluded if they think a bit of hi viz on their horse is going to prevent an accident. If having it on lulls riders into a false sense of security, then more fool them.
As I said before (and will say again ), risk assess at all times 

Click to expand...

So which is it? Are riders wearing loads of hi viz nervous wusses like "rabbits caught in headlights" or are they cocky, over confident delusionals who think they are wearing a force field? 

I really do not think you can stereotype. I guess I'm deluded because I'm sure hi viz prevents *some* accidents. Never mind. 

Quirky, hasn't anything on this thread made you think, "yeah I suppose a bit more hi vis might just make us a little safer?"

Stuff on this forum has done that for me and I'm very grateful for it.


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## Laafet (18 May 2012)

quirky said:



			I'm with lannerch on this, can't really see the point in having more than a tabbard.

I see the 'lit up like a Christmas tree' hi-vizers as being nervous riders, rightly or wrongly, who want to draw as much attention to themselves as possible as they can't cope with traffic coming past at even a reduced speed.
		
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I tend to agree with this. The article does mention about the change in riders over the years. Wearing lots of Hi-Viz will alert people to your presence but should not be used to basically inform everyone that you are terrified of traffic and expect everyone else to stop while you scowl at them. FWIW I always wear my Polite notice hat band and tabard, horse wears reflective wraps all round. I only ever use an exercise sheet in winter time and that is a Witney stripe blanket. And for those still wearing the 'horse in training/young horse' type of tabards are by admission admitting liability and can be confusing to non horsey people who have no idea what these phrases mean.
Not having a go, just everyone has jumped one small, silly remark when the rest of article was actually very truthful.


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## quirky (18 May 2012)

AshTay said:



			In my experience as a rider, car driver and motorcyclist, riders with more hi viz are more likely to be courteous back to drivers thus promoting rider-driver mutual respect.
		
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, the first person in my post does not thank traffic ... ever!! She may give a nod but it is indiscernable ... the only time she takes her hands off the reins is when she hangs her bridle back up .
The second person is most courteous.

Me? I thank everybody, even those that don't bother slowing down .



Flame_ said:



			Quirky, hasn't anything on this thread made you think, "yeah I suppose a bit more hi vis might just make us a little safer?"
		
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No, it hasn't .


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## TheSylv007 (18 May 2012)

quirky said:



			d before (and will say again ), risk assess at all times 

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Do you have a clipboard and form?


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## Smogul (18 May 2012)

quirky said:



			Of course I can risk assess .
I drive to the yard, so can assess as I am going what the visibility is like for a driver. Any doubt, I don't go out 

Click to expand...

Yes, but what about when you set out in brilliant sunshine and twenty minutes later the sky has darkened and hail comes pelting down. This happened to me. Fortunately we were all in high-viz.


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## quirky (18 May 2012)

TheSylv007 said:



			Do you have a clipboard and form?
		
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Nope, it'd be a bit tricky to hold the reins 



Smogul said:



			Yes, but what about when you set out in brilliant sunshine and twenty minutes later the sky has darkened and hail comes pelting down. This happened to me. Fortunately we were all in high-viz.
		
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I have never been caught in hail


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## Murphs_Mum (18 May 2012)

I am shocked by HH Admin's reply to this.  YES I had spent money on your magazine and bought a copy before I posted.

I thought it was a very negative 'half sentence' as you refer to it. I never commented on the rest of the article or magazine and I haven't seen anyone else do do.  

My interest is in the safety of the horse and rider and anything that discourages people from wearing more than the minimum hi vis is appalling, the riders make their own decisions that is personal choice, but if anyone feels embarrassed or ashamed to look like 'Bertie Bassett' because of your article that is wrong.


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## Patterdale (18 May 2012)

Does anyone else think that this thread has gone ever so slightly OTT? 

It was only a comment in half a sentence, as already stated. 

No wonder this country has gone Health and Safety mad when there is a backlash like this over one comment. She didn't even say 'don't wear hi-viz at all' - it was just a comment about overdoing it, which I took to be quite tongue in cheek 

I find Pip6's comments about 'hunting people in tweed not caring if their horses die' FAR more offensive. 

Quirky I agree with you. Each to their own. 

I don't ride in a back protector either FWIW - and you could apply many of the arguments on this thread to that!

I just think that this is a massive overreaction to one comment, which has not even advised against wearing hi-viz!

Plus to the person who commented about not being able to see the horse once you've been tipped off it - if there are any motorists who would miss half a ton of wild beast galloping about with it's reins trailing, they'd probably miss you whatever you were wearing


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## ihatework (18 May 2012)

I think the wording in that part of the article was derrogatory and in poor taste and kind of overshadows the rest of the article that was good.

However (and ducks for cover) I kind of see where they were coming from and hold similar personal impressions as Quirky about those that do go out decked as Christmas trees (I'm wrong, I know, but I can't help it!!!)

High Viz is good. It should be mandatory IMO (in limited form rather than completely decked out!!!). I always wear a high viz tabbard to hack out, and am considering perhaps some high viz brushing boots might be a sensible investment. But I so cannot be @rsed with covering every piece of leather, my body or my horses body with high viz!!!!


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## BlairandAzria (18 May 2012)

I am truly shocked by the official response from H&H. No one has been questioning the rest of the article, simply the assertion made by the author that people who wear more than a tabard are pansys or "bertie bassetts", both of which are being used in the article as derogatory name-calling to "bully" ( at worst) or mock and belittle (at best) a whole sector of the horse community who chooses to wear mulitple items if hi-viz to better protect themselves and their horse from the many dangers we face on the roads, and also to protect other road-users whom we may encounter whilst out riding. 

Not only was the comment by the author ill-thought out and incorrect (hi-viz and wearing multiple colours and applying to varying heights / moving parts, is widely advised to make yourself better seen and therefore safer) but of equal importance  I also found the comments offensive and derogatory, belittleing and, in what otherwise would have been a valid article highlighting the dangers of over-ruggibg and over-feeding the message has been lost but one flippant arrogant comment.


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## Ella19 (18 May 2012)

I can only assume the lady who wrote the article does not drive!

I was encouraged early on as a teenager to wear hi viz, by other eventers on our yard, who evented at intermediate level (please note definately not novice riders) and this was in the days when hi viz was still frowned upon on the whole. Then when I started driving I realised that a hat band was a good idea with the hedges and banks round here. When I moved to the Surrey Hills you have single track lanes with steep sided banks and dappled light from the trees, it was only when I almost ran into a horse and rider from the yard that I realised how important the leg bands are. The one in front was wearing them and it was the movement with the reflective pink (yes pink!) leg bands that showed up. The rider behind has a tabbard on a black horse and with the bank and corner I just didn't see her. Thankfully I am a cautious driver and avoided and accident, and said livery now goes out, as I do, with a tabbard, hat band and leg wraps.

It's not silly, outrageous or for novice riders, it is common sense, which sadly seems to be lacking an awful lot in today's society!


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## ClobellsandBaubles (18 May 2012)

ester said:



			we don't have an OSR problem round here, I might try and make my own though  

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1m-Fluore...Textiles_SM&hash=item20c4a53a14#ht_2133wt_952

Click to expand...

http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/high-visibility-mesh-fabric.html
If only my sewing machine worked I have so many ideas about high viz creations  

Especially after I nearly missed someone on a lovely sunny but leafy road when driving and girl at my last yards poor pony got a wing mirror up his bump (thankfully no one was severely hurt) despite wearing a tabard and waving at the driving to slow down. 

From what I understand about risk assessments mine would include wearing maximum high viz as that would mean I had considered all risks like being parted from my horse, all weather and terrain (it is very changeable here particularly if you are going from roads to forest to increasing height. The places I ride the conditions can vary massively within a hack I got could in snow the other day from what was a perfectly sunny clear day!) I once came across camouflaged cadets in the woods once quite glad I didn't get shot


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## Rowreach (18 May 2012)

I have a hard enough time convincing the children and students that I teach that hiviz is cool enough to wear without the idea that others (including H&H mag) consider them "frightened" Bertie Bassetts for wearing it 

I read the whole article yesterday and I did, as it happens, comment earlier on the whole thing.  Some of the points raised are very valid indeed, and I would heartily endorse H&H running some sensible, informative articles on such subjects as over rugging and over feeding.

I am not sure that an article taking the p*ss out of horse owners who don't happen to come from a certain sector of hereditary horse owning society is the way to do educate anyone.

I have looked at a few other articles by Ms Mackaness, and it does seem to be the way she writes.


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## Kallibear (18 May 2012)

I don't understand the arrogance that goes with non (or minimal) hi viz wearers. Is their belief in their own superiour abilities enough to protect themselves AND THEIR HORSE from other peoples mistakes?! Same as not wearing a hat. 

I am NOT a nervous rider. On the roads or in the school. I'll ride anything and regularly take young horses onto to the road for experience. I hack everywhere and anywhere and an that person seen blasting round stubble fields or scrabbling up sides of hills. However I still tog up in as much hi viz as poss TO KEEP MY HORSE SAFE. He deserves it. 

It IS effective. Loads of riders round here wear lots of hi viz and our surrounds means you can LITERALLY see them a mile off. The other day I saw a friend over a mile down the hill, her horse in a flourescent exercise sheet. That's a whole mile a car drive could have planned in. You wouldn't have seen a hat band, leg bands or even a tabard at that distance. On the other hand I nearly hit another rider out on a dark bay (dark clothing too) in bright sunlight under some trees. Bloody fool. I know her and she's def one of those 'too cool' to wear reflective. Shame, because her horse is a nice animal and doesn't deserve to be hit.   

How many times have you had a 'near miss' with a cyclist because you 'didn't see them'? I bet they weren't in lots of flourescent stuff. The same applies to horses.


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## AshTay (18 May 2012)

ihatework said:



			However (and ducks for cover) I kind of see where they were coming from and hold similar personal impressions as Quirky about those that do go out decked as Christmas trees (I'm wrong, I know, but I can't help it!!!)

High Viz is good. It should be mandatory IMO (in limited form rather than completely decked out!!!). I always wear a high viz tabbard to hack out, and am considering perhaps some high viz brushing boots might be a sensible investment. But I so cannot be @rsed with covering every piece of leather, my body or my horses body with high viz!!!!
		
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I agree that there's little to be gained by total submersion in hi viz! And we're all entitled to our opinions which we can air on here (because, let's face it, even for the most prolific posters, views expressed on here are not really that far-reaching!)

But H+H is a magazine that is read by a lot of people, including younger people, and is very well known and, in general respected, and so they have a responsibility to ensure that what they print does not have negative consequences on the riders who read it. They don't need to go about actively promoting hi viz but they certainly should not be casting it in any sort of negative light.


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## Kallibear (18 May 2012)

Maybe we should start trying to change the attitude to Hi Viz. At the moment it sadly seems to for ' nervous novice happy hackers'. 

A better attitude would : if you don't wear lots you clearly don't give a damn about your horses safety


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## Patterdale (18 May 2012)

I think this is getting a bit carried away. You can't assume that people who don't paint themselves neon before they go out are 'arrogant.'

Like I say, I don't wear a back protector when I ride. This isn't because I am 'arrogant' 'don't care' or 'think im invincible.'

It's just because I don't wear a back protector.


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## Ladydragon (18 May 2012)

JFTD said:



			My second, unhelpful,  contribution to this thread is a complaint about the difficulty of acquiring mesh hi vis quarter sheets, especially in orange (since when you're wearing mesh, the rape is yellow and yellow is useless!).
		
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Have you had a look at the Parsons Rump option?



HHO admin said:



			Dear forum members

<snip>
Regards, Lucy Higginson
		
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Can't help but feel that's a somewhat dismissive contribution which perhaps explains why the "A tabard is quite sufficient" atititude and somewhat insulting "Bertie Basset" terminology made it past the editors...  Bit of a shame an otherwise interesting article was derailed in such a foreseeable way...

I'm sure though that everyone who hasn't read the article, but holds an opinion on the use of reflective safety wear, will hot foot it out to buy the magazine as suggested...



Laafet said:



			And for those still wearing the 'horse in training/young horse' type of tabards are by admission admitting liability and can be confusing to non horsey people who have no idea what these phrases mean.
		
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I'm very simple minded...  The reflective top I wear when walking young horse out has a whopping big, red, L front and back...  He gets to wear an L plate too...  

In all seriousness, I've had some very positive feedback...  Even kids in cars who lean out with the "ahhh, he's a learner" get the idea...  I figured if anyone can read the ones you refer to they might be a bit closer than I'd like anyway...


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## suestowford (18 May 2012)

I had L-plates for mine when he was very young. I tied one to his tail and the other hung from the neckstrap.
Certainly raised a smile with most drivers.


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## AshTay (18 May 2012)

patterdale said:



			I think this is getting a bit carried away. You can't assume that people who don't paint themselves neon before they go out are 'arrogant.'

Like I say, I don't wear a back protector when I ride. This isn't because I am 'arrogant' 'don't care' or 'think im invincible.'

It's just because I don't wear a back protector.
		
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If you're referring to me, you missed my point. Quirky can't assume that riders who wear lots of hi viz are numpty's based on the observation of 2 numpties who also happen to wear lots of hi viz. Likewise, i can't assume that people who don't wear hi viz are arrogant based on my limited number of observations that people in hi viz always appear to be more friendly to other road-users. My tongue was clearly not into my cheek enough.


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## lannerch (18 May 2012)

I hear the jokes from the non horsy maternity ( the neighbours. When my friends go by top to toe in Barbie pink) and they don't come or get started from/by me!


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## duckling (18 May 2012)

patterdale said:



			I think this is getting a bit carried away. You can't assume that people who don't paint themselves neon before they go out are 'arrogant.'

Like I say, I don't wear a back protector when I ride. This isn't because I am 'arrogant' 'don't care' or 'think im invincible.'

It's just because I don't wear a back protector.
		
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But you not wearing a back protector only affects you if you fall off. 
Not wearing sufficient hi-viz could also affect your horse if you part company and the motorist who didn't see you until too late.


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## MissMincePie&Brandy (18 May 2012)

HHO admin said:



			Dear forum members

The article in question appears in the 17 May issue and is not available to read online. It is part of an excellent magazine that features brilliant photographs and reports from The Queen's Diamond Jubilee pageant, Royal Windsor Horse Show, a fascinating vet piece on new ways to treat joint problems, and this feature that so many of you are commenting on, despite most not having read it.

If you had read it I am sure that you would agree that the feature is full of sound advice from experts who see far too many horses swaddled in excessive rugs in warm weather and so on. It also advocates safe hacking, though queries (in one half of a sentence only) if there is a point at which high-viz kit becomes over the top. Clearly many of you disagree with this point, but it always good to encourage debate on these matters, which in turn helps educate more individuals.

For those of you who have not seen the magazine please do grab yourself a copy of the issue and read this entertaining and thought provoking piece in full, rather than lambasting it unseen. If you would like to comment further than do send us a submission for our letters page at hhletters@ipcmedia.com 

Regards, Lucy Higginson
		
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Gosh...I know it's getting harder to encourage people to part with their cash and .. well, there's nothing as good as bad publicity for hiking up the sales is there?
Excellent marketing ploy - I must try and rub some of my customers up the wrong way


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## Ladydragon (18 May 2012)

lannerch said:



			I hear the jokes from the non horsy maternity ( the neighbours. When my friends go by top to toe in Barbie pink) and they don't come or get started from/by me!
		
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Do your friends, or you, care what other people think/say?

I honestly can't see the relevance...  I've had one guy tell me I looked ridiculously like an opal fruit on horse back...  This is the same fella who rides with no hat; parks his horse in the loading bay and ties it to the lamp post out side the co-op, on the main (only) road through the village so he can nip in for a few odds n' sods whilst he's out hacking...  His and everyone else's opinion is of no interest to me...


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## JFTDWS (18 May 2012)

ester said:



			we don't have an OSR problem round here, I might try and make my own though  

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1m-Fluore...Textiles_SM&hash=item20c4a53a14#ht_2133wt_952

Click to expand...

Apparently dafthoss is on the case.  I don't think I trust myself making such things but I will happily bribe other people! 



Ladydragon said:



			Have you had a look at the Parsons Rump option?

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Interesting solution to the problem - if I can't bully dh into making me a mesh sheet I may consider it.


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## Kallibear (18 May 2012)

Duckling: that's the point about wearing hi viz. The decision to wear it (or not) affects MORE THAN JUST YOU. It keeps your horse safe. It protects drivers. To not wear it means you couldn't give a damn about those two. 

It IS possible to excessive with hiviz: you can get past the stage where having more makes little difference. But just tabard is not enough. 

To cover all bases you need tabard, hat band and gloves for you. For the horse, something from the front (bridle and breastplate), something from behind (tail guard or rug) and something on their legs (moving). That IS quite a lot, but not excessive nor over lapping purpose.


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## Happy Hunter (18 May 2012)

What I found funny today - IPC (aka Horse and Hound parent company) actually SELLS hi Viz!!! Sheets, Leg Wraps and Hat Bands!

They havent a clue about marketing strategy then!!

http://horseandhound.ipcshop.co.uk/shop/hi-vis


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## Dizzle (18 May 2012)

Double_choc_lab said:



			Be interesting to know who wrote the article and whether they have thousands of acres of private land over which to ride.  Oh but don't fall off and require an air ambulance coz they wont spot you or the horse

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Even if you are hacking on a private estate off road you should still be in high viz, if you were to fall it's the only way the air ambulance would see you.


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## abercrombie&titch (18 May 2012)

I wear hi-viz, my ponies wear hi-viz..... its not just for other road users benefit, but also for the myriad of different folks we meet out hacking - people walking dogs, kids on bikes, folks shooting etc etc. The RAF train around us in chinooks, as do police helicopters - frankly, I want to be hi-viz from every angle so that it gives all these good folks chance to see me and take appropriate action  - as they aren't always wearing it so I might not have seen them!
And I'm with JFTD on the lack of mesh exercise sheets - did look at parsons rump, but a bit worried about branches getting caught in the straps? We go thru quite a few woods.....


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## Ceris Comet (18 May 2012)

Thank you Lucy Higginson, you've just lost yourself another ready with that attitude.  People don't need to buy the mag as the article has been quoted and explained well enough I'm here and you're STILL saying you agree with the article despite the protests off many of your loyal readers . Just shows that you couldn't give a fig about your readers opinions.


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## Ceris Comet (18 May 2012)

Show read. " reader" and " on here "


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## Zuzan (18 May 2012)

abercrombie&titch said:



			..............   And I'm with JFTD on the lack of mesh exercise sheets - did look at parsons rump, but a bit worried about branches getting caught in the straps? We go thru quite a few woods.....
		
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V bandz do them .. http://www.v-bandz.co.uk/category-24/MQTR.html as quarter sheets.. have one it is brilliant.. really makes a difference to passing traffic.

As for H&H and their response ... am utterly disgusted that anyone could excuse or justify making a derogatory remark about the wearing of hi viz..  both horse and rider should have hi viz on .. *this is exactly the attitude that costs lives.*  The thought that this could encourage or vindicate the ridiculing of people who do wear hi viz is disgusting.

Even if the rider doesn't fall off there are circumstances when horse and rider can become separate...  I lost my horse opening a gate that I had to get off for .. she spooked and tanked off down a single track lane with forestry on both sides .. thankfully she was safely recovered so it doesn't have to be a fall to get separated.. 

I don't need to do much road work but what I do is very dark as lots of trees.. and in the far north low light conditions are a constant throughout the day in winter.. and low sun can be even worse as it can seriously impair the vision.   

Any non motorised user of the roads should be decked out christmas tree fashion whether cycling, dog walking (dog should be decked out as per horse) etc..  I know how difficult it can be to spot non decked out vulnerable road users when driving.


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## Marydoll (18 May 2012)

HHO admin said:



			Dear forum members

The article in question appears in the 17 May issue and is not available to read online. It is part of an excellent magazine that features brilliant photographs and reports from The Queen's Diamond Jubilee pageant, Royal Windsor Horse Show, a fascinating vet piece on new ways to treat joint problems, and this feature that so many of you are commenting on, despite most not having read it.

If you had read it I am sure that you would agree that the feature is full of sound advice from experts who see far too many horses swaddled in excessive rugs in warm weather and so on. It also advocates safe hacking, though queries (in one half of a sentence only) if there is a point at which high-viz kit becomes over the top. Clearly many of you disagree with this point, but it always good to encourage debate on these matters, which in turn helps educate more individuals.

For those of you who have not seen the magazine please do grab yourself a copy of the issue and read this entertaining and thought provoking piece in full, rather than lambasting it unseen. If you would like to comment further than do send us a submission for our letters page at hhletters@ipcmedia.com 

Regards, Lucy Higginson
		
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Lets hope it educates the person who wrote the comment as part of the article, i am saddened that even after reading the outcry on the forum  that you dont see fit as a group to apologise and say it was an idiotic statement to be allowed to go to press.


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## TTK (18 May 2012)

Ladydragon said:



			I'm very simple minded...  The reflective top I wear when walking young horse out has a whopping big, red, L front and back...  He gets to wear an L plate too...  

In all seriousness, I've had some very positive feedback...  Even kids in cars who lean out with the "ahhh, he's a learner" get the idea...  I figured if anyone can read the ones you refer to they might be a bit closer than I'd like anyway... 

Click to expand...

What an excellent idea Ladydragon, I am going to be taking my youngster out and there are only busy roads outside my gate, L plates are a much better idea than wording, gets the point across simply & effectively. Nice one.


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## Natch (18 May 2012)

MissChaos said:



			Feature is subtitled 'Mollycoddling', title is 'Are we becoming a nation of pansies?' and the sub finishes '... and explains how to avoid joining the pansy ranks.'
		
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Buds_mum said:



			Hey guys lets face it if your a pony patting, happy hacker who wears hi viz you just don't fit into the upper ranks of H+H
		
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HHO admin said:



			Dear forum members

The article in question appears in the 17 May issue and is not available to read online. It is part of an excellent magazine that features brilliant photographs and reports from The Queen's Diamond Jubilee pageant, Royal Windsor Horse Show, a fascinating vet piece on new ways to treat joint problems, and this feature that so many of you are commenting on, despite most not having read it.

If you had read it I am sure that you would agree that the feature is full of sound advice from experts who see far too many horses swaddled in excessive rugs in warm weather and so on. It also advocates safe hacking, though queries (in one half of a sentence only) if there is a point at which high-viz kit becomes over the top. Clearly many of you disagree with this point, but it always good to encourage debate on these matters, which in turn helps educate more individuals.

For those of you who have not seen the magazine please do grab yourself a copy of the issue and read this entertaining and thought provoking piece in full, rather than lambasting it unseen. If you would like to comment further than do send us a submission for our letters page at hhletters@ipcmedia.com 

Regards, Lucy Higginson
		
Click to expand...

Lucy,

Have you not listened to your forum members? Those of us who have read the article in full say the rest of it is good.

Really, I enjoy the magazine's approach to most things, but the article DOES incinuate that you are a pansy if you wear more than a tabbard. Quite what chance the non-pansy half ton horse or any oncoming vehicles have if the rider parts company with it, one can only hope never to find out.

Really I am disappointed that the H&H editors saw fit to leave the comment in. H&H should be working towards removing the stigma of high viz, not encouraging it. 

Shame on you.


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## Ladydragon (18 May 2012)

suestowford said:



			I had L-plates for mine when he was very young. I tied one to his tail and the other hung from the neckstrap.
Certainly raised a smile with most drivers.
		
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Same reaction here...  I'm all for putting a smile on faces, even the miserable ones chuckle at the boy plodding along with his L plates on display... 



DaffyAppy said:



			What an excellent idea Ladydragon, I am going to be taking my youngster out and there are only busy roads outside my gate, L plates are a much better idea than wording, gets the point across simply & effectively. Nice one.
		
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I got the flexi magnetic ones...  Punched a hole in the top corners tied two lengths of string and attach those to his D rings (I walk him out with a saddle on) with a large paper clip tied on the end of the string...  They're soft enough to bend/pull free if he gets loose and catches on something...  Although after reading Sue's post I'll have a think to get one on his back end too...  The L's on the high viz tabard were done at a work wear type online shop where you could have personalisation inexpensively...

When he's been riding out for a bit we'll upgrade to P plates...


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## fburton (18 May 2012)

Faracat said:



			I love the Direct.gov's picture aid. 

Click to expand...

The rider on the right is clearly a novice, and probably a nervous nellie.


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## fburton (18 May 2012)

BlairandAzria said:



			Mocking people for the way they dress is bullying, even in jest- the fact that this is regarding the safety of riders and their horses makes it all the more disgusting.
		
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Not sure about bullying, but it is certainly immature.


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## fburton (18 May 2012)

lannerch said:



			Indeed hence I have no problem unfortunately they will be the butt of jokes from non horsey communities .
		
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Do you have _any_ hard evidence for your statement, or is it just an opinion? And even if it were true, what does it _matter_??


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## TGM (18 May 2012)

patterdale said:



			Plus to the person who commented about not being able to see the horse once you've been tipped off it - if there are any motorists who would miss half a ton of wild beast galloping about with it's reins trailing, they'd probably miss you whatever you were wearing 

Click to expand...

Horses and motorists do get injured and killed in this kind of situation:

http://www.shropshirestar.com/news/2011/01/10/bolting-horse-killed-on-road-near-whitchurch/

A loose horse will not necessarily be galloping in clear light in the middle of a wide road - it could be about to emerge from an adjoining bridlepath, woodland, field etc., and not easily spotted by passing motorists.


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## fburton (18 May 2012)

quirky said:



			Nope, not ridicule. I say it as I see it.

I pass one rider who wears an orange hi viz coat, with added yellow armbands. She has the same orange cover on her hat with a yellow band.

She has rein things and leg straps on the horse.

When driving towards her, her face looks like a rabbit caught in headlights .

A girl on our yard is similarly togged up (not so much on her, more on the horse) and she admits to being scared witless of hacking out.
They are the only 2 riders I pass who are done up 'like Christmas trees' .

Maybe 2 riders isn't really enough to pass judgment but I have anyway 

Click to expand...

Sorry, what _is_ your judgement? You've only given us the facts.


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## fburton (18 May 2012)

quirky said:



			I think people are absolutely deluded if they think a bit of hi viz on their horse is going to prevent an accident. If having it on lulls riders into a false sense of security, then more fool them.
As I said before (and will say again ), risk assess at all times 

Click to expand...

Do you think people are absolutely deluded if they think hi viz is going to reduce the chances of an accident? What is the rationale of the mounted police for wearing as much as they do?


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## MissMistletoe (18 May 2012)

Quirky, I'd rather be called deluded than be dead and have a dead horse and potentially  injured people in the vehicle who hit us because I couldnt be *rsed to put on a hi viz tabard.


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## rockysmum (18 May 2012)

patterdale said:



			Plus to the person who commented about not being able to see the horse once you've been tipped off it - if there are any motorists who would miss half a ton of wild beast galloping about with it's reins trailing, they'd probably miss you whatever you were wearing 

Click to expand...

So why do so many fail to see horses who are walking quietly along roads.  

I personally would prefer to see the horses with loads of Hi Viz, thats the drivers eye level, not a tabbard on top of a 17hh horse.

That said I never use the stuff 

But then I dont ride on the roads


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## ClassicG&T (18 May 2012)

I have read the article. The hi-vis thing is stupid. You need hi-vis on both horse and rider IMO, incase rider comes off and horse takes flight.

there is no such thing as "Too much hi-vis"


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## JFTDWS (18 May 2012)

rockysmum said:



			I personally would prefer to see the horses with loads of Hi Viz, thats the drivers eye level, not a tabbard on top of a 17hh horse.
		
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I almost never wear hi vis...  The pony does though - I fear more for him hooning onto a road having ditched me than I am concerned about being found having been ditched


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## wellsat (18 May 2012)

I thought it was sensible to put some on you and the horse in case you part company. If your horse is galloping home through the village without you you want drivers to be able to see them.


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## jaysh (18 May 2012)

Before reading on this thread, i have just bought L plates to go on my young horse, people just dont take notice of the tabbards half the time, but they understand exactly what the L plates mean!  I bought some with velcro fastening and i attached the velcro to the tail flap of my fluoresecent mesh quarter sheet and attached another L plate to the fluoresecent chest attachment. I also have a tabbard saying CAUTION, YOUNG HORSE IN TRAINING, PLEASE SLOW DOWN. hopefuly that lot should do the trick!


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## PandorasJar (18 May 2012)

Ceris Comet said:



			Thank you Lucy Higginson, you've just lost yourself another ready with that attitude.  People don't need to buy the mag as the article has been quoted and explained well enough I'm here and you're STILL saying you agree with the article despite the protests off many of your loyal readers . Just shows that you couldn't give a fig about your readers opinions.
		
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+1

Very defensive response, Lucy. 
Most are in *agreement* with the rest of the article, that mollycoddling isn't great, but the hi-viz statement should never have been published. 

There is no measure too over the top to make yourself more visible. It isn't just Londoners coping with traffic, I'd say it is even worse in the country. When riding down a single track, 60mph, high hedged lane with blind bends it is essential to be seen if you don't want to end up under a car.

The photo posted earlier on in the thread shows just how much of a difference it makes, on both rider and horse.

Even the BHS advice is 
*"So if you have to ride out on the road, always wear as much hi-viz clothing on both you and your pony as you can, no matter what time of day, what time of year and regardless of what the weather is doing"*
BHS link

Wonder what they'd think of H+H's opposing advice?
Pan


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## Bikerchickone (18 May 2012)

I absolutely cannot believe the official response to this thread from Lucy! I've got the magazine and read the article and since seeing your response on here have decided I shall cancel my subscription. 

Your attitude is disgraceful and in my opinion borders on negligent. How many fashion conscious teenagers will read that article as gospel and not bother wearing any hi viz because "Horse and Hound magazine says we don't need to". You should be ashamed*of yourselves!


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## bumper (18 May 2012)

I concur bikerchickone.

 Lucy, your reply not only affirms your belief that your journalist was correct in her comments, but actually is rather patronising. You assume most of us have not read the article in question, which is probably wrong. I have. 

I have lost count of the many people whose comments I would like to quote here, but I would like to highlight PandorasJar quoting the BHS advice.

A high viz vest is not "prudent". ONLY a high viz vest is basic safety, and one which should be encouraged.

The article in question is excellent in many ways: I do very much agree that there is a propensity of over-rugging and over-feeding..both of them my personal pet hates. However, and this is important, placing hi viz in with those bad habits ..which the journalist highlighted as should be avoided in order to not seem "a pansy", is a HUGE mistake. 

I would like to see an apology, and also an article promoting the use of hi viz, in the next issue.


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## Natch (18 May 2012)

patterdale said:



			3Plus to the person who commented about not being able to see the horse once you've been tipped off it - if there are any motorists who would miss half a ton of wild beast galloping about with it's reins trailing, they'd probably miss you whatever you were wearing 

Click to expand...

Er, not stalking you or anything but it was me wot said that  I do think this comment is a bit short sighted. If everyone is in general agreement that a tabbard is a good idea, when riding and hopefully controlling your horse's actions in traffic, why on earth isn't it a good idea for the out of control horse to be as visible as a beacon? Lots of people who keep ponies in the new forest think so, hence they wear reflective neck thingumies. I can think of several places on my local hacks that a) are shady even in sunlight and I have struggled to see horse riders on, b) X roads and T junctions that if your horse was riderless emerging from there, I would like them to be noticed by the oncoming driver *NOW* not a fraction or a second or longer later.  



rockysmum said:



			But then I dont ride on the roads 

Click to expand...

Even off road, high viz on rider AND horse helps recovery of both if a search party needs to be sent out. Again, if I fell off in the forest and was kocked unconscious I'd rather be seen easier, and if I fell of but couldn't find my horse before dark, I'd rather he had reflective gear on, because he could easily wander out on to a fast road. I've known horses break out of fields in the dark (vandal smart native ponies!) and be found due to torches shining on the small reflective badges on their rugs.


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## lannerch (18 May 2012)

Hard evidence fburton my male neighbours can be very cruel!
But no I do not care and they certainly do not either.
Intersetingly on my way home tonight I passed a horse with no high viz whatsoever , I did notice them way off, hence did slow down and did receive a gracious thank you 
Not advocating no high viz though but will be sticking with just my tabbard and no jess I do not live in the middle of nowhere in Wales!


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## Ceris Comet (18 May 2012)

An apology from H&H would stop all this , but Lucy thinks its ok to suggest that too much hi- viz is wrong


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## Ceris Comet (18 May 2012)

If this thread isn't in the top 5 threads in next weeks edition then we will all know that H&H is fake


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## rockysmum (18 May 2012)

Naturally said:



			Even off road, high viz on rider AND horse helps recovery of both if a search party needs to be sent out. Again, if I fell off in the forest and was kocked unconscious I'd rather be seen easier, and if I fell of but couldn't find my horse before dark, I'd rather he had reflective gear on, because he could easily wander out on to a fast road. I've known horses break out of fields in the dark (vandal smart native ponies!) and be found due to torches shining on the small reflective badges on their rugs.
		
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Actually I agree with you.

However me and the oldies only ever go round the farm, up the track, round the two huge fields and down the other track.  Only place the horses could go is back to the yard and I think a search party would find me within a few minutes 

See old age and lack of motivation have some benefits


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## Moggy in Manolos (18 May 2012)

monkeybum13 said:



			Saying that wearing more than a tabard is mollycoddling that is utther tosh.
		
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This /\


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## Patterdale (18 May 2012)

Naturally - meant tongue in cheek 

Ps stop stalking me


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## lannerch (18 May 2012)

Forgot to put before for those who use l signs for young horses be careful for if something was to happen (heaven forbid ) it may like the wording caution young horse be seen blame wise as an admission of lack of control,


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## lannerch (18 May 2012)

L even sorry forgot the capital


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## Murphs_Mum (18 May 2012)

If Lucy isn't interested in the views of the readers of H&H I wonder if the parent company will be.  

I for one will be contacting them following that appalling defensive response.


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## Ceris Comet (18 May 2012)

But nothing will happen will it lanerch ? Because everyone will have done a risk assessment ! Pmsl


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## Queenbee (18 May 2012)

Well quirky you wear a tabbard, this is not however the best you can do to keep your HORSE visible, but hey, when u fall of and it bolts and gets nailed by a car and it's lying there all broken and stuff, you can just go an buy a brand new shiny horse and wear just protective gear on your important self again.

Really! You have to wait till something brakes to see potential errors in its design?!
I'm not saying wearing a tabbard isn't good, but IMO it isn't good enough, and please not insult people by implying that the more hi vis you wear, the less you use your common sense to risk assess?! I would have thought the opposite was true, if you are smart enough to see potential risks by not be decking your horse, you are smart enough to continue this risk assessment to situation and environment, indeed the obvious conclusion is that people who are as some would describe 'over safety conscious to the point of looking like Xmas trees' are probably the most responsible of us all. As I said I wear hi vis boots on horse, tabbard and in winter sometimes an exercise sheet, although having read the reasoning behind hi vis gloves, it seems a very smart idea, obvious really. And IMO, if you boot your horse up anyway/ride in gloves/use exercise sheets when clipped in winter, why not buy hi vis ones? Where the hell is the harm other than to someone's vanity?!! And if someone cares more about how they look and other peoples potential opinions than the safety of their horse, that is such a shame 

If I had kids I'd certainly be dipping them and their ponies in luminous paint and covering them with fairy lights!!


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## bumper (18 May 2012)

Ceris Comet said:



			But nothing will happen will it lanerch ? Because everyone will have done a risk assessment ! Pmsl
		
Click to expand...

Hilarious!!! Pmsl!

And we are also all psychic. We can "feel" in advance that a low flying plane will arrive...or someone will decide it's a good day to cut their hedgerow/put scaffolding up/decide to change "bin" day (that's just happened here with no warning)/get involved in a three car pile up necessitating an air ambulance arrive right next to the track you are hacking on. I'll check my crystal ball then shall I?

lannerch, really?


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## lannerch (18 May 2012)

Just a friendly warning ceris comet daft but unfortunately true!
So need need for sarcasm!


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## Rowreach (18 May 2012)

Queenbee said:



			If I had kids I'd certainly be dipping them and their ponies in luminous paint and covering them with fairy lights!! 

Click to expand...

My kids, both boys, are decked out in hiviz whether on or off their ponies.  If ever I though anyone considered them "pansies" or accused them of being less than intelligent because they wear hiviz,  I cannot imagine what my reaction would be 

fwiw I have noticed that whenever H&H print an even slightly critical letter from a reader, the editorial response is always dismissive, defensive and reactionary


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## Ceris Comet (18 May 2012)

Lannerch .. common sense ..not sarcastuum ?


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## monkeybum13 (18 May 2012)

Rowreach said:



			fwiw I have noticed that whenever H&H print an even slightly critical letter from a reader, the editorial response is always dismissive, defensive and reactionary 

Click to expand...

You forgot to say that the response also encourages people to buy a copy, hence more profits for HH!


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## teapot (18 May 2012)

I wouldn't call the mounted police 'nervous novices' when they're out and about trussed up like Christmas trees. For the mounted police in London, they're not dealing with fast traffic or indeed hidden under shadows of hedges and trees and yet it's STILL good enough for them...

Just saying. (and yes I wear high viz & I also happen to have a fantastic waterproof coat that's yellow.)


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## Ceris Comet (18 May 2012)

Lucy ..
If you want too keep your readers , you will apologize for your error of judgement


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## mtj (18 May 2012)

I'm afraid Lannerch is right concerning messages etc on tabards and L plates. I undestand the official advice is to avoid any statement ie young horse, that could be interpreted that  you are contributing to any incident.

"Please pass wide and slow" is considered acceptable as  a non admission of liability.


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## Natch (18 May 2012)

Ceris Comet said:



			If this thread isn't in the top 5 threads in next weeks edition then we will all know that H&H is fake
		
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Ah but we already know this. Top 5 threads aren't the most popular threads, they are the ones HHO deems most appropriate for their image  Shil's cob thread for example, by far the most replies when it was started, rumbled on for weeks, but only actually made it into the top 5 (for the first time  ) a year or so later, when only a handful of replies were added to bump it back up.



patterdale said:



			Naturally - meant tongue in cheek 

Ps stop stalking me 

Click to expand...

Oops missed that  and I shall, I really need to drag myself away from here and facebook!


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## Bikerchickone (18 May 2012)

The scary thing is I think this thread shows what the editor of H&H and associated staff actually think of all their paying readers to whom they owe their jobs. 

If we all withdraw our financial support then they'll lose their jobs and hopefully that ridiculous superiority complex they seem to have developed.


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## Ceris Comet (18 May 2012)

But is Lanerch right to say that too much hi-viZ is silly


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## Ceris Comet (18 May 2012)

Bikerchickone ...spot on ! I think a protest is the way to go . I have also cancelled my HH  subscription


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## ILuvCowparsely (18 May 2012)

mtj said:



			Today's H+H has an article on mollycoddling horses.  Most is about overfeeding/rugging/clipping etc., but it also implies that wearing more than a hi-viz tabard is excessive.

Bit shocked to be honest.  Thought the recommendation was for some hi viz on both horse and rider.

What do you think?
		
Click to expand...



 Right  and so what if we molly coddle horses???

 Some of us think of horses as family.

 To be honest I never view article H&H post unless its on the front page more often  than not I don't bother with their articles.

 So   I wear a tabart- leg wraps-martingale wrap-hat band -hi viz rug- hi viz gloves etc and more  so I look like a beacon but at least I  give my horse the best chance of being seen.


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## Ceris Comet (18 May 2012)

We are waiting Lucy .......
Do you support the majority of your readers and therefore your wages , or your own silly views ?


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## Murphs_Mum (18 May 2012)

CC do as I have and complain to IPC Media not H and H.


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## lannerch (18 May 2012)

Ceris comet IMO yes but my opinion in your opinion no that's fine too.
Please don't come high and mighty just because I dare to disagree!


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## Rowreach (18 May 2012)

Leviathan said:



			Right  and so what if we molly coddle horses???

 Some of us think of horses as family.

 To be honest I never view article H&H post unless its on the front page more often  than not I don't bother with their articles.

 So   I wear a tabart- leg wraps-martingale wrap-hat band -hi viz rug- hi viz gloves etc and more  so I look like a beacon but at least I  give my horse the best chance of being seen.
		
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Sorry Leviathan, you are like [most of] the rest of us, nervous novice numpties who don't have a "traditional" horsey background and therefore are not worthy of horseownership.  We over-rug, overfeed, overclip, underexercise, over supplement, and use excessive traffic as an excuse to only ride in arenas, except for those of us who are REALLY nervous and stupid and deck ourselves out in obscene amounts of hiviz before venturing out on a hack


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## Ceris Comet (18 May 2012)

The more HH readers protest the better


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## The Fuzzy Furry (18 May 2012)

Anything more than a tabard is overkill eh?

Fine, well tell that to ROSPA you folk in the H&H towers.

Do you want to preach to all other road users - such as say motorcyclists?
Tell them to wear a tabard & dont bother to put their lights on - its overkill eh?

H&H Editor, you have let reporters use the mag for some odd & quite frankly biased opinions over the years which have been laughed at and then forgotten.
However, in this instance please think about them trying to encourage readers to cut back on safety, in DIRECT conflict with all other advice, such as in the highway code and in all Pony Club and BHS training.

A retraction, in big print on your website with follow up comments form the DVLA, BHS & Pony Club on the website and also in the magazine would be appreciated. 

I wont hold my breath tho


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## true dragon (18 May 2012)

Rowreach said:



			I have a hard enough time convincing the children and students that I teach that hiviz is cool enough to wear without the idea that others (including H&H mag) consider them "frightened" Bertie Bassetts for wearing it 

Click to expand...

exactly! this comment in "half a sentence" might stop some teen or child wearing hi viz for fear of being laughed at and called "bertie basset"

taken to the extreme, this "Half a sentence" might get someone killed on the roads.


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## Ceris Comet (18 May 2012)

How many deaths will it take before H&H  support hi- viz  ?


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## true dragon (18 May 2012)

Ceris Comet said:



			How many deaths will it take before H&H  support hi- viz  ?
		
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exactly! this issue literally is a life or death choice. not only for the rider, but their horse and the motorist too

if there is not an apology and article about the merits of wearing hi viz i will not be buying this magazine again. (a weekly customer for the past 10 years)


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## HollyB66 (18 May 2012)

Faracat said:



			I agree AshTay.

Also the Bertie Basset comment was quite derogatory and will not make it any easier to persuade reluctant teens to put safety over looks.

Re the comments about yellow Hi-viz and oil seed rape fields, I agree with that too. A combination of yellow/pink or yellow/orange helps you stand out against more backgrounds and is therefore better and safer than yellow alone.
		
Click to expand...

I also read the article in the magazine before seeing this thread and totally agree with Ashtray, Catwithclaws and Faracat! and probably many others but have only reached post #290 ish in my reading.

A poor response from H&H Admin to which I have only just started my weekly subscription.

I wear a mix of yellow and orange hi viz, which might make me appear like a 'Bertie Bassett', but it keeps me and my horse that little bit safer when we are on the roads. The extra seconds count!!!


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## livetoride (18 May 2012)

I think hi viz is useful and use it myself, but to read some of the posts here you would think that a horse was invisible without it!


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## jenki13 (18 May 2012)

livetoride said:



			I think hi viz is useful and use it myself, but to read some of the posts here you would think that a horse was invisible without it!
		
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Not invisible but definitely harder to see! There is one person who rides out on the same lanes I do and she has a bay horse and often wears a dark green/brown jacket and similar coloured jods, considering we have hedges bordering 99% of the lane and most of these are taller than a person on top of a 16/17hh horse then she does quite literally camouflage herself. There has been a couple of incidents with myself or a family member driving that we have only seen the horse/rider because we see a flash of a white sock or blaze as the horse moves  A bright yellow/pink/orange tabard and leg bands would make the individual stand out a good few seconds before.

Putting hi-viz on before riding out on the horse is as automatic to me as putting my headlight on my motorbike is before riding that.

I have today invested in a long sleeved pink top and an orange one from sports world (was planning on this before the thread) they are meant for cyclists but will work just as well on horse back! I have also brought some fluorescent leg wraps after reading (and thinking about) the advice that a moving object is seen quicker than a static one... and also realising that my horse has nothing on from the rear on front yellow brushing boots!


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## ILuvCowparsely (18 May 2012)

Rowreach said:



			Sorry Leviathan, you are like [most of] the rest of us, nervous novice numpties who don't have a "traditional" horsey background and therefore are not worthy of horseownership.  We over-rug, overfeed, overclip, underexercise, over supplement, and use excessive traffic as an excuse to only ride in arenas, except for those of us who are REALLY nervous and stupid and deck ourselves out in obscene amounts of hiviz before venturing out on a hack 

Click to expand...



I am not a novice 45 years of riiding and BHS exams under my belt thankyou   and owning my own yard..

 H&H want to print a stupid comment like don't wear to much Hi Viz I say shame on them.
 So what if we want to pamper our horses buy them fancy rugs etc, boy things are going downhill with ............................


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## MrsMozart (18 May 2012)

I was wearing high viz when I came off Dizz and had a bleed on the brain. I was in a field having just got back from a hack. 

The Air Ambulance crew, the ground crew, and the A&E staff all thanked me - for wearing high viz and therefore easy to find, thereby saving their time and quite possibly my life. 

Having nearly hit a horse because it and its rider blended into the stone wall and hedges, I know stop to ask those that don't protect their horse and themselves to reconsider.


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## justforfun (18 May 2012)

As a mother, car driver and horse owner.

1, I do not let my children hack out without hi-viz, any mother who do are IMO irresponsible and clearly do not care enough about their children to  take 5 mns and 'hi-viz' up.

2, I drive alot of miles each day, past lots of yards. and I am  fed up as a driver to come round a corner in the evenings to find a horse and rider on the road without ANY hi-viz, I DO NOT WANT TO KILL A HORSE OR ITS RIDER, but from where I am sitting behind my steering wheel it looks like the horse rider dosnt care about ANYTHING OR ANYONE, not themsleves,their horse or the car drivers,  one word  SELFISH.

3, I love my horse, and although I take a risk riding on the roads, I still want to make it as safe a ride as possible for EVERYONE on the road.


In a world stuffed with health and safety madness-this is one time where good old common sence should prevail.


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## bumper (18 May 2012)

H&H..are you listening??? You should be.


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## Morland (18 May 2012)

Check that your hi-viz stands out - on country lanes in Spring or Summer, or if it's a bit misty, pink is better than yellow/green.  Happy Hacking!


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## Ladydragon (19 May 2012)

lannerch said:



			Forgot to put before for those who use l signs for young horses be careful for if something was to happen (heaven forbid ) it may like the wording caution young horse be seen blame wise as an admission of lack of control,
		
Click to expand...




mtj said:



			I'm afraid Lannerch is right concerning messages etc on tabards and L plates. I undestand the official advice is to avoid any statement ie young horse, that could be interpreted that  you are contributing to any incident.

"Please pass wide and slow" is considered acceptable as  a non admission of liability.
		
Click to expand...

I agree, there probably is an 'admission' hidden within the L plates and it's not as if the 'passenger' can claim full optional control with an animal in the same way as an L plated, instructor's car...  But, I'm also a bit tired of the "Don't do something sensible because in the event of an accident you might be considered at fault" type attitude rampant today...  Best I don't clear a walkway in the snow either in case someone trips over a bit I missed...  etc...

An L plate or a big red L on high viz is instantly recognised - from a distance...  The "Pass wide and slow" probably less easy to read...  Some drivers are just total wannabe rally drivers who shouldn't be on the roads, some will push things a bit and others are genuinely decent and considerate...  I doubt either of the last two actually want a horse or person sat on their bonnet - the hi viz and L is an easily identified combination...  It might even get some attention from the muppets who shouldn't be behind the wheel...

My 'risk assessment' is that the chances of an accident are reduced - which can only be a good thing...  Arguably, having a young horse on the road and not making this clear for other road users to make informed decisions could be determined as contributory anyway... "But my client passed three horses earlier and couldn't possibly be expected to know that this particular horse was young/and or inexperienced and slow down/pass wider/pause until it passed to safely accommodate this fact"...

It could be considered contributory whether you do or don't use it...  If the risks are reduced a tad though, that'll do for me...


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## Bikerchickone (19 May 2012)

It's funny, Horse and Hound don't see hi viz as necessary but I'm sat here watching a paramedic on a motorbike lights and sirens on, fully clothed in hi viz. Who would have thought he needed it with the lights and siren??


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## Ladydragon (19 May 2012)

bikerchickone said:



			It's funny, Horse and Hound don't see hi viz as necessary but I'm sat here watching a paramedic on a motorbike lights and sirens on, fully clothed in hi viz. Who would have thought he needed it with the lights and siren??
		
Click to expand...

Maybe he's nervous, inexperienced and rather novicey when travelling on the roads...


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## chels (19 May 2012)

Such a silly comment to make.
I don't wear any hi-viz on my person (which I probably should), but my pony wears a big orange rug in the winter time when we go out on the road





Has a tail flap so we can be seen from behind too. I have leg wraps but they don't do up round his tree trunks...
Have been stopped by motorists 3 times now to thank me for making him so visable.
Am trying to find a mesh type one for summer time


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## maresmaid (19 May 2012)

Only read up to page 7 but am posting just to add my support. H&H have got this very wrong.


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## maresmaid (19 May 2012)

Hi viz is essential. I live close to the livery yard where my horse is kept, its on the edge of a housing estate and this must be ridden through in order to do any hacking. There are several schools nearby and quite a lot of traffic on the local roads and 9am and 3.30pm. There are approx 25 horses on this yard and everyone who uses these roads regularly will be well used to meeting horses including myself. I expect to see the horses out on these roads yet i have repeatedly been taken by surprise when riders without hi viz have suddenly emerged from various places where there have been trees or the light has been poor. On many many occasions i have seen a rider in hi viz from a good distance then found when i got quite close that there was actually a second rider without the hi viz, as i know the local riders i usually have a word and explain &  and happily so far they have all made sure that take precautions in future. Any responsible horse publication should be supporting saving lives not mocking any steps taken to reduce accidents. H&H need to take notice of the the circumstances many many modern riders enjoy their horses and not ridicule people for trying to do so in a safe responsible manner.


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## Parker79 (19 May 2012)

No-one in my yard uses hivis...but that hasn't stopped me! before taking my youngster out in hand his bridle was kitted up....tail band doesn't fit so I'm getting a new one! But I have a vest too.

We have barely any roadwork...just quiet single lanes, but lots of corners! he is jet black and very difficult to see by motorists as some of the lanes are dark with tree cover even in the bright sunshine (its the new forest).


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## Ranyhyn (19 May 2012)

Is it so that H+H magazine isn't a representation of it's readers opinions, but rather a bible - that should be adhered to ... lest the "bertie bassetts" among us be cast out!?  Belittled and shunned by our betters at HH towers? 
That's why I stick to other magazines, who actually LISTEN to their readers, rather than throw scorn on the vast majority.


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## RoobyDoobs (19 May 2012)

Posting also to support this thread.  As a fellow Bertie Bassett I am in good company and think the statement made by the author is disgraceful.


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## RoobyDoobs (19 May 2012)

I see there is a link to this thread on the H&H fb page.... It'll be interesting to see the response!!!! Tehe


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## NativePonyLover (19 May 2012)

I am very lucky that I have direct hacking to off road hacking, but still wouldn't dream of hacking without hi viz on myself or my pony - for one thing, it makes you visible to air rescue team should the worst happen but also allows cyclists, dog walkers, runners etc to spot us too. I am one of the few people from my yard to year hi viz and often get comments such as 'your bright' or 'we could see you coming' ... Which is the whole point! Funny enough, those that don't wear it are the first to complain that someone didn't see them!

I always wear - a hat band, hi viz coat, gilet or tabard depending on time of year and hi viz gloves. 

Pony years - hi viz noseband cover, rein slips, neck band, high viz saddlecloth, tail guard and leg wraps. 

All in various colours - pink, orange and yellow.

IMHO everyone should wear high viz whatever time of day or year or weather conditions regardless if they are hacking on roads or not.


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## Flicker (19 May 2012)

chels said:



			Such a silly comment to make.
I don't wear any hi-viz on my person (which I probably should), but my pony wears a big orange rug in the winter time when we go out on the road





Has a tail flap so we can be seen from behind too. I have leg wraps but they don't do up round his tree trunks...
Have been stopped by motorists 3 times now to thank me for making him so visable.
Am trying to find a mesh type one for summer time
		
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Chels I love that rug, where did you get it from?


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## lannerch (19 May 2012)

I am yet to read the article I have it ( and no I will not be cancelling my subscription even if it says all eventers stink,) maybe when I read it I may change my mind but at the moment I cannot help but think what a massive overreaction by th good old h&h possy for what I suspect basically is a slightly tactless tongue in cheek humourous comment!
Prehaps we should all be out actually riding our horses with or without decorations and let each to their own as we obviously have far to much time in our hands to overreact in such a way!


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## RunToEarth (19 May 2012)

The inverted snobbery on this thread is awful. my horses are not on full livery and I don't work in London. I do think if you gave two hoots about yours, your horses or other road user's safety you would not ride on the roads at all. And no, I don't wear hi viz.


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## Marydoll (19 May 2012)

lannerch said:



			I am yet to read the article I have it ( and no I will not be cancelling my subscription even if it says all eventers stink,) maybe when I read it I may change my mind but at the moment I cannot help but think what a massive overreaction by th good old h&h possy for what I suspect basically is a slightly tactless tongue in cheek humourous comment!
Prehaps we should all be out actually riding our horses with or without decorations and let each to their own as we obviously have far to much time in our hands to overreact in such a way!
		
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I dont think its over reaction, its a reasonable reaction to a thoughtless, stupid comment that may influence some people not to wear hi viz for fear of being seen as a pansy, or a scared rider, thus putting themselves and their horse at risk. The person who made it should apologise, the person who edited the article shouldnt have allowed riders who take care of themselves, their horses and other road users by wearing to be painted it in such a negative way.


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## Dry Rot (19 May 2012)

My horses are exercised off road and the rider not only wears hi-vis but also telemetry!

The forests where we ride up here in the Highlands are so vast that no helicopter would have a hope to find a rider who has come off WITHOUT hi-vis and, even with it, a search would be difficult. The telemetry (I'm a falconer) is an added and, I think, necessary precaution.

As for those who don't wear hi-vis on the road -- well, Natural Selection will eventually sort that out.


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## lannerch (19 May 2012)

Answer do marydoll can't quote as on iPhone .
Perhaps as I said I have not yet
Read the article however I very much doubt it.


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## Flicker (19 May 2012)

RunToEarth said:



			The inverted snobbery on this thread is awful. my horses are not on full livery and I don't work in London. I do think if you gave two hoots about yours, your horses or other road user's safety you would not ride on the roads at all. And no, I don't wear hi viz.
		
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I agree that roads are not ideal environments for horses, however unfortunately the reality is that it is extremely unlikely that the majority of horse riders can avoid the roads at all times. For those occasions that we have to ride on the roads it surely makes sense to take as many precautions as we can to ensure our safety, our horse's safety and the safety of everyone else on the roads too? And that includes making ourselves visible to other road users, surely?


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## ozpoz (19 May 2012)

RunToEarth said:



			The inverted snobbery on this thread is awful. my horses are not on full livery and I don't work in London. I do think if you gave two hoots about yours, your horses or other road user's safety you would not ride on the roads at all. And no, I don't wear hi viz.
		
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I see local riders riding out in poor visibility on roads round here only because they feel "safe"  because they are in full hi viz!!!
They think I am 'wimpy' because I won't let my daughter or my own horse do this anymore- although 15 years ago we all rode out , all the time, on roads.
Car design has changed - people can drive as fast round corners  as they can on the straight, and if you think risk assessing each, individual situation is not needed because you are wearing full hi viz .... well, I question that.
 Horses on roads are not as fast as cyclists,therefore traffic coming up behind is too high risk, in my mind, to ride out at all.

If you are concerned about being lost in the wilderness, carry a mobile phone. Most of them have tracking technology.


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## true dragon (19 May 2012)

RunToEarth said:



			The inverted snobbery on this thread is awful. my horses are not on full livery and I don't work in London. I do think if you gave two hoots about yours, your horses or other road user's safety you would not ride on the roads at all. And no, I don't wear hi viz.
		
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well you obviously dont give two hoots about your safety... wearing a hat with no chin strap. tut tut.


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## Zuzan (19 May 2012)

chels said:



			Such a silly comment to make.
I don't wear any hi-viz on my person (which I probably should), but my pony wears a big orange rug in the winter time when we go out on the road





Has a tail flap so we can be seen from behind too. I have leg wraps but they don't do up round his tree trunks...
Have been stopped by motorists 3 times now to thank me for making him so visable.
Am trying to find a mesh type one for summer time
		
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V bandz do a Mesh Quarter Sheet..  I have one .. it is excellent...

http://www.v-bandz.co.uk/category-24/MQTR.html


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## trojanpony (19 May 2012)

I organise a social rise every year. Last time, to make it more fun I had a couple of prizes. One was for best turned out hi viz. It was won by a young girl with her pony both decked out in a full array of matching pink hi viz and I don't think they looked stupid or like "Bertie basset" I think they looked smart and visible. If I was that girls mum I would certainly want her coming home in one piece every time she hacked out. 
kids are so easily influenced though and I know at that age I was reading the h&h avidly, looking up to all my horsey Heros. What a shame if a girl like this decided not to keep wearing all her hi viz for fear of not looking professional or confident.


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## RunToEarth (19 May 2012)

true dragon said:



			well you obviously dont give two hoots about your safety... wearing a hat with no chin strap. tut tut.
		
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my patey may be considered to compromise my safety, but I do not wonder around busy roads considering my self to be incredibly safe because you wear hi viz. Only this morning I've seen 3 women, 3 a breast in the fog, hi viz or not, they are still incredibly vulnerable, and putting others at risk.


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## Marydoll (19 May 2012)

RunToEarth said:



			my patey may be considered to compromise my safety, but I do not wonder around busy roads considering my self to be incredibly safe because you wear hi viz. Only this morning I've seen 3 women, 3 a breast in the fog, hi viz or not, they are still incredibly vulnerable, and putting others at risk.
		
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Nobody thinks theyre incredibly safe, just safer than if not wearing it.
We all have stories of individuals pushing the boundries of safety and doing stupid things we wouldnt, hacking in fog being one of them, again tarring everyone with the one brush, not helpful.


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## Flame_ (19 May 2012)

RunToEarth said:



			The inverted snobbery on this thread is awful. my horses are not on full livery and I don't work in London. I do think if you gave two hoots about yours, your horses or other road user's safety you would not ride on the roads at all. And no, I don't wear hi viz.
		
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So everyone who rides horses on roads doesn't give two hoots about them? Nice one, just accuse about 90% of the forum members of not giving a stuff about their horses.  

I agree that horses and traffic together make for a risky situation, a bit like horses and big solid fences, children and road crossings, life in general... Putting yourself, your animals, your family at some risk is inevitable to do anything, it does not mean that you don't care. Refusing to make a bit of effort and some small changes incorporating new ideas in order to reduce risks where possible does stink of arrogance and stubbornness, but even that does not mean that people don't care about their horses.


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## undertheweather (19 May 2012)

RunToEarth said:



			my patey may be considered to compromise my safety, but I do not wonder around busy roads considering my self to be incredibly safe because you wear hi viz. Only this morning I've seen 3 women, 3 a breast in the fog, hi viz or not, they are still incredibly vulnerable, and putting others at risk.
		
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Oh do go and ride your horses Rosie on your hundreds of acres of off road riding. Not all of us are spoiled brats like you that our parents have hundreds of acres for us to ride on.

If weren't so spoilt I doubt you would be spouting this crap.

As a horse rider I hope you spoke to these riders. If you did not, you have no right to be talking about them on a public forum. Yes, they were contravening the highway code, but so are you by not wearing high visibility clothing.

I suggest you revise your Highway Code yourself before complaining about other road users.


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## ester (19 May 2012)

would you have me not have a horse at all then RTE? They are only for people who have arenas or acres of off road riding on their doorstep? or if I do have one I have to keep it as a pet and not let him out the field?

re the mobiles and tracking technology, does this work if there is no signal?

eta does the same go for everyone not in a car but using the highway? cyclists? runners? (its rural round here, limited pavements and none through my village) motorbikes?


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## chloeandkira:) (19 May 2012)

i dress my pony up in everything hi viz when on the roads...its stupid that they are saying this!


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## Marydoll (19 May 2012)

chloeandkira:) said:



			i dress my pony up in everything hi viz when on the roads...its stupid that they are saying this!
		
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Good on you Chloeandkira, wecome and what a good first post


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## ClobellsandBaubles (19 May 2012)

I am sure there is member with this in their signature


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## ozpoz (19 May 2012)

Tracking technology doesn't work from phone mast signals - there are different kinds, so you would have to investigate which would suit your purposes.

I wasn't too thrilled when I found out about it - I feel it's all a bit 1984

But, I can see the usefulness in certain situations.

i have to say , some people are being incredibly defensive and reactionary on this thread.


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## Tonibird83 (19 May 2012)

I think it is incredibly irresponsible for HH to take this view. The sad fact is that if you are out riding and have an accident involving a vehicle, it is very likely you and/or your horse will be severely injured or even killed so why create an issue around wearing hiviz to increase your visibility??

Yes, some people may laugh and think looking like a giant banana/tangerine/apple is ridiculous but the fact is you are seen by motorists much sooner than the neutral colours of a horse and your clothing (mostly).

I was laughed at on one yard wearing hivis yellow hatband,tabard and chaps and my horse leg wraps, bridle wraps and sheet. I told them all to bog off, at the end of the day, god forbid I am involved in an accident, the driver has a poor case if s/he claims they did not see us!!

I'd rather be told I look stupid than be dead!


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## Littlelegs (19 May 2012)

Whilst no sensible person should go out hacking in fog, to suggest people who ride on roads have no care for their own safety is one of the most foolish comments I've read. Actually, exposure to traffic means that when something unusual happens off road, eg fairground in a field, dirt bikes, air ambulance etc, mine are bombproof enough not to cause an accident, unlike a few I've met who've never seen anything. 
  Or do you honestly believe people should only have horses if they are either lucky enough to live in an area where yards  open straight to extensive bridleways or if they have enough land of their own?


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## canteron (19 May 2012)

Such stupid comment actually devalues the whole article.

I took H&H for 20 years and cancelled it recently as I felt the standard of journalism was pretty poor. There are enough idiots in real life without paying to read their views in a magazine!


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## FionaM12 (19 May 2012)

lannerch said:



			I do not see any need to embarrass myself and my horse by dressing us both head to toe in fluorescent pink!
		
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Is there any evidence, anywhere, which suggests horses are capable of embarrassment? You might feel embarrassed but I very much doubt the horse would be.


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## touchstone (19 May 2012)

I think it is fairly safe to say that the majority have to ride on the roads at some point, whether that is a country track or a busy A road.

I certainly have to or my horse wouldn't leave the field.

I also think that there is a danger that the more we keep away from roads through fear, then the less motorists expect to see horses and drive/act accordingly.  It gives fuel to the view that horses shouldn't be on the roads at all.  

I have no intention of stopping riding on the roads and restricting my horse to becoming a paddock potato, I'll be out there claiming my right of way on the public highway as safely and visibly as possible!

Plus it would mean a huge increase in horseboxes/trailers on the road if horses weren't hacked anywhere that involved roadwork, hardly good for the environment and probably more irritating to drivers stuck behind a box for miles than having to slow for a ridden horse for a few seconds.


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## Marydoll (19 May 2012)

touchstone said:



			I think it is fairly safe to say that the majority have to ride on the roads at some point, whether that is a country track or a busy A road.

I certainly have to or my horse wouldn't leave the field.

I also think that there is a danger that the more we keep away from roads through fear, then the less motorists expect to see horses and drive/act accordingly.  It gives fuel to the view that horses shouldn't be on the roads at all.  

I have no intention of stopping riding on the roads and restricting my horse to becoming a paddock potato, I'll be out there claiming my right of way on the public highway as safely and visibly as possible!

Plus it would mean a huge increase in horseboxes/trailers on the road if horses weren't hacked anywhere that involved roadwork, hardly good for the environment and probably more irritating to drivers stuck behind a box for miles than having to slow for a ridden horse for a few seconds.
		
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Where is thst like button when you want it


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## Rowreach (19 May 2012)

RunToEarth said:



			my patey may be considered to compromise my safety, but I do not wonder around busy roads considering my self to be incredibly safe because you wear hi viz. .
		
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Well correct me if I'm wrong, but you do ride on roads, probably busy and otherwise, in your dark hunting clothes in the depths of winter, do you not?


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## ozpoz (19 May 2012)

touchstone said:



			I think it is fairly safe to say that the majority have to ride on the roads at some point, whether that is a country track or a busy A road.

I certainly have to or my horse wouldn't leave the field.

I also think that there is a danger that the more we keep away from roads through fear, then the less motorists expect to see horses and drive/act accordingly.  It gives fuel to the view that horses shouldn't be on the roads at all.  

I have no intention of stopping riding on the roads and restricting my horse to becoming a paddock potato, I'll be out there claiming my right of way on the public highway as safely and visibly as possible!

Plus it would mean a huge increase in horseboxes/trailers on the road if horses weren't hacked anywhere that involved roadwork, hardly good for the environment and probably more irritating to drivers stuck behind a box for miles than having to slow for a ridden horse for a few seconds.
		
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I agree in principle - but it depends on the roads around you. Where i am it is quite possible that the A road can have two large timber lorries in opposite directions. There are no verges, nowhere to go, and literally no room for a horse. I will not do it!
And I do feel sad when I see horses kept in very urban fields, motorways all around, and no visible off road riding. I question the people who feel we have the right to keep horses in those situations. I've never seen one that looks happy and I wonder how the grass must taste.


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## RunToEarth (19 May 2012)

undertheweather said:



			Oh do go and ride your horses Rosie on your hundreds of acres of off road riding. Not all of us are spoiled brats like you that our parents have hundreds of acres for us to ride on.

If weren't so spoilt I doubt you would be spouting this crap.

As a horse rider I hope you spoke to these riders. If you did not, you have no right to be talking about them on a public forum. Yes, they were contravening the highway code, but so are you by not wearing high visibility clothing.

I suggest you revise your Highway Code yourself before complaining about other road users.
		
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I'm sorry, what? 
I do not have hundreds of acres to ride on, my partner is a farmer. I'm not sure whether youre aware of farming practice but the land is cultivated for crop production, the only time I ride around the fields is when they are stubble, and so do lots of local riders who ask his permission, don't think im off tramping through his crops because im not. 
I did highlight the dangers to them this morning, and as per, they were rude. 
My opinion is my own, there are an awful lot of bad drivers out there and I prefer to ride as little on the rode as possible, I do not feel, hi viz or not, that it is safe or sensible. 
I'm not sure how that is breaking the highway code, but I will wait to be jumped on.


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## touchstone (19 May 2012)

ozpoz said:



			I agree in principle - but it depends on the roads around you. Where i am it is quite possible that the A road can have two large timber lorries in opposite directions. There are no verges, nowhere to go, and literally no room for a horse. I will not do it!
And I do feel sad when I see horses kept in very urban fields, motorways all around, and no visible off road riding. I question the people who feel we have the right to keep horses in those situations. I've never seen one that looks happy and I wonder how the grass must taste.
		
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I'm actually in quite a rural location in a tiny village, just that the main bridleways lead from a main A road and I am next to a motorway which is my field boundary. You are welcome to come and see how happy the horses are here and I'm pretty certain that the grass tastes just fine!  

As for horses being kept in fields in urban areas, while I agree it isn't ideal, those horses are probably bombproof in traffic and one of the safest rides.   
There are some horses who don't even have the luxury of a field to turn out in, regardless of the envioronment that they are kept in.   

In todays ever expanding society we can either resign horses to rural areas, meaning that the horse population would reduce and be limited to a select few, (and goodness knows we have enough problems with the image of elitism in equestrianism) or we can get on and do the best that we can to promote safer routes in our ever encroaching urban areas.


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## Marydoll (19 May 2012)

ozpoz said:



			I agree in principle - but it depends on the roads around you. Where i am it is quite possible that the A road can have two large timber lorries in opposite directions. There are no verges, nowhere to go, and literally no room for a horse. I will not do it!
And I do feel sad when I see horses kept in very urban fields, motorways all around, and no visible off road riding. I question the people who feel we have the right to keep horses in those situations. I've never seen one that looks happy and I wonder how the grass must taste.
		
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To ride on a road like the one you describe is madness and dangerous to all, id like to think common sense will prevail and nobody does it.
While i can see your point, horses are kept in far worse conditions than urban fields, personally i wouldnt keep mine in them, but thats my choice and i know im lucky to have it


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## monkeybum13 (19 May 2012)

Oh my word, this thread has turned crazy!


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## Ladydragon (19 May 2012)

RunToEarth said:



			The inverted snobbery on this thread is awful. my horses are not on full livery and I don't work in London. I do think if you gave two hoots about yours, your horses or other road user's safety you would not ride on the roads at all. And no, I don't wear hi viz.
		
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Actually, that's the best bit of snobbery I've seen on the thread to be honest...

You're incredibly lucky if you are able to ride regularly without needing to go near a road...  I guess everyone who isnt lucky enough to have the off road access that you do should just stick to riding schools... 

Gawd knows why we have bridle paths in our area that bisect roads and need road riding to access it...  What were they thinking of...


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## caterpillar (19 May 2012)

Ladydragon said:



			Actually, that's the best bit of snobbery I've seen on the thread to be honest...

You're incredibly lucky if you are able to ride regularly without needing to go near a road...  I guess everyone who isnt lucky enough to have the off road access that you do should just stick to riding schools... 

Gawd knows why we have bridle paths in our area that bisect roads and need road riding to access it...  What were they thinking of...
		
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In the past RTE has said she does not agree with bridlepaths/public rights of way or something along those lines 

Clearly those who do not have access to acres and acres of private land should stick to arenas.


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## ozpoz (19 May 2012)

Marydoll, the thing is people DO ride on these roads - and anytime I point out how dangerous it is, the answer is always   "well, I have my hi viz on!" 
The implication  being that they have as much right to use the road as anyone (which is true)..... but hardly the point.

I think this attitude is partly what the article in this weeks H+H is about.


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## Queenbee (19 May 2012)

If bertie Bassett was walking down the road, do you think you'd see him? If being visible means looking like bb I think I'll go with it thanks


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## tallyho! (19 May 2012)

Yep, another Bertie Bassett here *waves*


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## Horsey_dreams (19 May 2012)

I was enjoying the article yesterday, agreeing with the whole thing until i came across the bertie bassett comment!!!! I am a bertie bassett and PROUD i wear a tabard, hat cover, gloves, my big grey mare wears leg bands and a tail cover, plus the martingale type thing at the front. I have a mix of colours to suit the conditions. 
I hack out with people who wear no hi viz, thats upto them, as long as drivers can see me and my horse thats fine, i also hack with those who wear more hi viz than me. Its a personal choice, but i personally cant understand why someone would not wear any at all, like someone else said its not just for your own safety but that of your horse and other road users. I guess a tabard is better than nothing, but those of you who only wear that please consider leg bands and a hat cover. I am always very alert on the roads, thanking considerate drivers and signalling others to slow down or stop, and waving back at kids who are pleased to see us! 
Any friends who ride my horse also have to wear our hi viz gear, my horse, my safety rules!!!

I know riders who have come back from a hack in the dark, and others who thought it was funny to be stopped by a car who said they should wear hi viz as they couldnt see them.. it almost makes you cry that some riders could care so little for their horses safety.


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## Tinypony (19 May 2012)

Laafet said:



			And for those still wearing the 'horse in training/young horse' type of tabards are by admission admitting liability .....QUOTE]

Not true.  This has been discussed many times in the past. In the days of the BHS forum a barrister posted and explained clearly that this could just as easily be argued to be a rider taking a responsible approach.  
Someone mentioned that it's "official" advice that these tabards should not be used and would be seen as an admission of liability, can anyone link to that?
		
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## FionaM12 (19 May 2012)

Queenbee said:



			If bertie Bassett was walking down the road, do you think you'd see him? If being visible means looking like bb I think I'll go with it thanks 

Click to expand...

I met him once. Well, someone literally dressed as him, giving away free sweets to children from a bucket in the street.

My daughter was under two, in her pushchair. She actually didn't know what sweets were yet, and when BB loomed over her, bearing down on her with a bucket, she screamed and screamed and tried desperately to scrabble out of her pushchair 

I wheeled her away, distraught. It was ages before she stopped crying and calmed down. 

So, I think you can say we definitely saw him.


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## ester (19 May 2012)

RTE where do you ride then? do you have off farm access to public rights of way which aren't roads? an arena? Or is there some secret place to ride that the rest of us don't know about 

Rowreach I do think the hunting thing is an interesting point, I have a modified tabard which fits in the pocket of my hunt coat to use when hacking too and from the meet so at least have something, it seems far too odd for me to be on a road in only dark clothing!


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## Tinypony (19 May 2012)

FionaM12 said:



			I met him once. Well, someone literally dressed as him, giving away free sweets to children from a bucket in the street.

My daughter was under two, in her pushchair. She actually didn't know what sweets were yet, and when BB loomed over her, bearing down on her with a bucket, she screamed and screamed and tried desperately to scrabble out of her pushchair 

I wheeled her away, distraught. It was ages before she stopped crying and calmed down. 

So, I think you can say we definitely saw him. 

Click to expand...

Brilliant!


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## ester (19 May 2012)

do you think Frank would mind if we went for this sort of look?


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## YorksG (19 May 2012)

RTE, yet again you make hunt followers look like arrogant, ignorant fools. I am aware that the people who follow the hunt you certainly used to be a member of, would find your attitudes deplorable. An ex-whipper in for that hunt used to ride the family riding school horses on the local roads, as did her mother, sister and aunt. I would suggest that in future, you give a little more thought to the impression you give of yourself and the sport you claim to support, before you make such ludicrous statements.


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## Queenbee (19 May 2012)

An interesting point about tabbard wording and admissions however, It could be argued that if a person drives a car with L or P plates that is no different a message to the one riders send out. It does not lead to an automatic admission of liability. I believe it is merely a case of acting responsibly.


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## touchstone (19 May 2012)

I thought most hunters did their fittening work on the roads? 

Anyway, thought some of you might be interested in this lady, who rode from the Skye to Smithfield Market in London, right through the city 

http://www.ride-for-research.org/12.htmlt

I have nothing but admiration for what they've achieved on todays busy roads and all for charity too.


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## Walrus (19 May 2012)

touchstone said:



			I thought most hunters did their fittening work on the roads? 

Anyway, thought some of you might be interested in this lady, who rode from the Skye to Smithfield Market in London, right through the city 

http://www.ride-for-research.org/12.htmlt

I have nothing but admiration for what they've achieved on todays busy roads and all for charity too. 

Click to expand...

The most fantastic ambassador and advertisement for the Fell pony - love this lady and her fabulous ponies!


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## MileAMinute (19 May 2012)

I've been told I look like an immature idiot for wearing Hi-Viz, because it's pink and I use too much of it! I've toned it down a bit atm as we don't do much road work par a 100 yard walk to bridleways but I always go out in my vest, and Meg with her leg wraps on all legs.

I ALWAYS wear hi viz, even if I'm going on the XC ride. If I came off and Meg bolted for home, who would see me hidden behind a XC jump? Down the bridleway, who would see me hidden in the trees? Worst came to worst and helicopters were searching, I'd be noticed a lot quicker.

Whether you're riding on the road or in fields, it's better to be seen!

I'd rather look like a tw*t riding on the road than a tw*t dead on the floor!


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## DragonSlayer (19 May 2012)

Cobrastyle said:



			I'd rather look like a tw*t riding on the road than a tw*t dead on the floor!
		
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Bravo!


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## Kaylum (19 May 2012)

Queenbee said:



			An interesting point about tabbard wording and admissions however, It could be argued that if a person drives a car with L or P plates that is no different a message to the one riders send out. It does not lead to an automatic admission of liability. I believe it is merely a case of acting responsibly.
		
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Urban myth I am afraid as in another thread a while ago many people checked out with their insurance companies  it does not admit anything and will not invalidate your insurance.


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## monkeybum13 (19 May 2012)

ester said:



			do you think Frank would mind if we went for this sort of look?






Click to expand...

BRILLIANT!


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## Marydoll (19 May 2012)

FionaM12 said:



			I met him once. Well, someone literally dressed as him, giving away free sweets to children from a bucket in the street.

My daughter was under two, in her pushchair. She actually didn't know what sweets were yet, and when BB loomed over her, bearing down on her with a bucket, she screamed and screamed and tried desperately to scrabble out of her pushchair 

I wheeled her away, distraught. It was ages before she stopped crying and calmed down. 

So, I think you can say we definitely saw him. 

Click to expand...

 ha ha, love it


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## PucciNPoni (19 May 2012)

ester said:



			do you think Frank would mind if we went for this sort of look?






Click to expand...

Hahaha, I know that exhibitor (Heidi Anderton of Absolutely Animals down in London).  She'll perhaps find it amusing that her photo made it on to a non-dog grooming related forum


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## Ceris Comet (19 May 2012)

Loving the BB dog !


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## Ceris Comet (19 May 2012)

Still no apology ?


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## Parker79 (19 May 2012)

This thread has gone truly mad! loving the dog....made me snigger lots! I want to borrow a poodle now so I can spray it lots of colours!!!! and of course cover it in hi-vis!


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## ester (19 May 2012)

I want to be better at photoshop I reckon I could come up with something similar


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## milo'n'molly (19 May 2012)

Silly comment and I did notice it myself, hope this thread gets brought to hho attention


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## Tinypony (19 May 2012)

Ceris Comet said:



			Still no apology ?
		
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Do they work on Saturdays?  I thought they didn't.


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## Ceris Comet (19 May 2012)

They work on Fridays and up till last night there was no apology, just the arrogant response from Lucy .


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## Littlelegs (19 May 2012)

They can't be expected to apologise yet cc. All too busy flogging their hi viz on eBay so nobody mistakes them for nervous novices. 
  In fact, I might ditch my hat from tomorrow, in 19yrs of riding my 14.2 I've never had a fall hacking her that my hat has saved me from, not fallen off her hacking since my teens & even then involved being bareback. And the looney drivers I've met weren't cos they hadn't seen me. Therefore, my risk assessment means neither hat nor hi viz are required. That way all the locals will be able to clearly recognize my superior riding skill & confidence. Just off to have a bonfire with daughters body protector, hat & hi viz, I'd hate her friends to think badly of her riding.


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## Rowreach (19 May 2012)

The irony is that they presumably depend on the income from all the advertisers on here and in the mag who are trying to flog all us numpties the various bits of equipment (including hiviz at the top of this page), rugs, feed, supplements, boots and everything else with which we mollycoddle our horses - I wonder how happy the advertisers would be now?   Biting the hand that feeds perhaps


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## Ceris Comet (19 May 2012)

LL and RR...
You guys are spot on !
Shame on H&H


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## touchstone (19 May 2012)

I have to agree that H+H's response was pretty abysmal, more a 'we are right and you are all wrong' attitide. 

Any good business person knows that if you don't listen to what your customers have to say and respond accordingly then you are on a pretty sticky wicket.


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## piebaldsparkle (19 May 2012)

jenki13 said:



			Is your dog wearing a jumper? Poor thing must look like a right pansy  

Click to expand...

Yes and yes he is (a pansy), though in his defense it was -10C


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## MerrySherryRider (19 May 2012)

Sooo, if a hi viz jacket/tabard is woefully insufficient, what exactly should the responsible road rider be wearing ?

 Are we talking about rider in jacket, fluorescent chaps and whip, hat band and gloves with the horse wearing hi viz exercise sheet, leg wraps, bridle/rein/chest attachments, tail guard combined with flashing lights in stirrups, boots,arms, hat and horse's rear ? 

 Should it be all one colour or pinks/yellow/orange combo ? How much Bertie Bassetness is correct ?


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## Rowreach (19 May 2012)

horserider said:



			How much Bertie Bassetness is correct ?
		
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No such thing as too much Bertie Bassetness


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## monkeybum13 (19 May 2012)

horserider said:



			Sooo, if a hi viz jacket/tabard is woefully insufficient, what exactly should the responsible road rider be wearing ?

 Are we talking about rider in jacket, fluorescent chaps and whip, hat band and gloves with the horse wearing hi viz exercise sheet, leg wraps, bridle/rein/chest attachments, tail guard combined with flashing lights in stirrups, boots,arms, hat and horse's rear ? 

 Should it be all one colour or pinks/yellow/orange combo ? How much Bertie Bassetness is correct ?
		
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I think the main point people are trying to raise is something on horse AND rider so that each could be seen if they become separated for example vest on rider and leg wraps on horse (although personally I use more)


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## daydreambeliever (19 May 2012)

I always wear a hi-vis coat or vest, however until i filled in a survey last year for bhs my horse didn't, but although i don't have plans to part company with my horse i now make sure that he wears a hi-vis beast strap. 
In my opinion the people that don't feel the need to be seen are probably the same ones that drive around the countryside without a thought for anyone else and feel equally immortal in their 4x4s as they do on horseback.


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## Ceris Comet (19 May 2012)

I would rather "light up like a Xmas tree " and live to spend another Xmas with my family  !!!!


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## Ceris Comet (19 May 2012)

Will H&H have the guts to make this thread of the week !!!????


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## piebaldsparkle (19 May 2012)

lannerch said:



			I just am very suspicious those lit up Christmas trees are doing it more for a fashion parade than actual safety .
		
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LMFAO Fluorescent went out of fashion in the 80's (you know when you used to wear one fluorescent pink sock and one green.....I know you did there is no denying it)!


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## lannerch (19 May 2012)

You know me well sparks 
The girls at our yard have a lot of hiviz gear different colours different outfits hence the comment


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## Ceris Comet (19 May 2012)

Flouresent may well have gone out of fashion but death hasn't


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## Parker79 (19 May 2012)

Ceris Comet said:



			Will H&H have the guts to make this thread of the week !!!????
		
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CC - They might....you must have contributed to a quarter of this thread

ps. I like christmas trees


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## Shantara (19 May 2012)

piebaldsparkle said:



			LMFAO Fluorescent went out of fashion in the 80's (you know when you used to wear one fluorescent pink sock and one green.....I know you did there is no denying it)!

Click to expand...

I did that only a couple of years ago...
I'm wearing fluorescent yellow ones right now...


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## MerrySherryRider (19 May 2012)

monkeybum13 said:



			I think the main point people are trying to raise is something on horse AND rider so that each could be seen if they become separated for example vest on rider and leg wraps on horse (although personally I use more)
		
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Ah, I was wondering after having read this thread.

 If general concenus of opinion is that no Bertie Bassetness is too much and that we should all be riding covered head to foot in various colours and with lights aflashing, then I agree with the remark made in HH.

Perhaps these could be made in yellow, might have a problem with midges and bees though.http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...t-coloured-suits-cover-equine-contenders.html


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## Ladydragon (19 May 2012)

ester said:



			do you think Frank would mind if we went for this sort of look?
		
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Errrm...   My pooch just ran for the hills... 



touchstone said:



			I thought most hunters did their fittening work on the roads? 

Anyway, thought some of you might be interested in this lady, who rode from the Skye to Smithfield Market in London, right through the city 

http://www.ride-for-research.org/12.htmlt

I have nothing but admiration for what they've achieved on todays busy roads and all for charity too. 

Click to expand...

Fascinating reading...  Thanks for that link... 



Cobrastyle said:



			I'd rather look like a tw*t riding on the road than a tw*t dead on the floor!
		
Click to expand...

Summed up rather well in one sentence... 



Parker79 said:



			This thread has gone truly mad! loving the dog....made me snigger lots! I want to borrow a poodle now so I can spray it lots of colours!!!! and of course cover it in hi-vis!
		
Click to expand...

That did make me laugh...  *resumes hunting for runaway fluffy dog*

Note to self: Hi Viz collar...


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## FionaM12 (19 May 2012)

Ceris Comet said:



			Will H&H have the guts to make this thread of the week !!!????
		
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I suspect your own contribution to it may have broken a record anyway.  Over fifty posts by one person in the same thread


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## Parker79 (19 May 2012)

FionaM12 said:



			I suspect your own contribution to it may have broken a record anyway.  Over fifty posts by one person in the same thread 

Click to expand...

FionaM - Did you just go through and count this or can you view this info somewhere? I have visions of you counting -


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## Littlelegs (19 May 2012)

Pmsl at cc. 'better to be lit up like a Xmas tree & live to see another Xmas'. You should sell it as a marketing slogan to hi viz manufacturers.


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## mle22 (19 May 2012)

Haven't read more than the first few pages of this - but does the original article not involve irony!


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## stevieg (19 May 2012)

I must admit I thought there was rather a lot of that in the whole article and it wasn't to be taken too seriously?


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## true dragon (19 May 2012)

mle22 said:



			Haven't read more than the first few pages of this - but does the original article not involve irony!
		
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other pearls of wisdom in the article included

if you work full time you shouldnt have a horse because you dont have time for it

the average rider should have an irish cob and not have a warm blood or thoroughbred

your a bad owner if you have your horse euthanised by lethal injection


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## ester (19 May 2012)

lannerch said:



			You know me well sparks 
The girls at our yard have a lot of hiviz gear different colours different outfits hence the comment 

Click to expand...


well that is a whole new level of 'matchy matchy' , which I find an amusing concept in itself, when I asked Frank he had no concept of fashion or embarassment  although I do have a pic of him looking less than impressed in a bling browband.. and a james bond suit.. and as puss in boots..


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## mle22 (19 May 2012)

True Dragon - Sounds like an attempt at humour to me ...


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## stevieg (19 May 2012)

Yup!


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## true dragon (19 May 2012)

mle22 said:



			True Dragon - Sounds like an attempt at humour to me ...
		
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quite!


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## mle22 (19 May 2012)

Excellent - I thought we'd all turned into Americans!


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## ribbons (19 May 2012)

As fionaM12 said of ceris comet.
Over 50 posts by the same person in one thread.

Yes and most of them repeating and repeating the question of will H&H make this the thread of the week.   Someone looking for their 15 mins of fame I think.


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## mtj (19 May 2012)

Any thoughts that the article was an attempt at humour should be dismissed by Lucy Higginson's post on this thread.  Have a read.  It doesn't suggest that this article is an attempt at irony. 

I sympathised with many of the views in the article, but thought the hi-viz comment was way off message.

Apologies, but even as the op on this thread, I haven't a clue where Ms Higginson, aka HH editor, posted.  Think user name is Horse and Hound administration.


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## Pearlsasinger (20 May 2012)

I asked TFC to bring this thread to the attention of the editor and presumably he did so as she has replied on the thread but I am extremely disappointed with the reply.
My horses (even the 30 yr old) rarely wear rugs, even in the depths of winter, eat very little other than haylage, although admittedly the tiny amount they get in a bucket at around 7.00pm is usually referred to to as 'tea', are expected to behave well in all circumstances and chastised if they don't, so I doubt if even the 'journalist' who wrote the article would consider them to be mollycoddled.
I have been riding, on the roads, amongst other places, for more than 45 yrs and bought my first H&H about 45 yrs ago.  When I started riding I wore a cork hat with an elastic chin strap which, frankly, would have done nothing to protect my head if I had fallen off and landed on it. I now wear a Champion hat with the relevant BS number - does this make me a nervous novice?  Or does it make me prudent? 
I can count on the fingers of one hand, the number of times I've fallen off my own horses in the last 40 yrs but the last time I did was on a road and the horse shot off without me, leaving me lying in the road stunned.  Fortunately I wasn't on my own and the driver who was closest stopped to check on me.  I was wearing hi-viz as was the horse, so we were both easily visible.
We frequently see low-flying helicopters which can see us because of our hi-viz and so avoid us.
Well over 20 yrs ago, sis and I were riding 2 bombproof R&D mares and were involved in an incident with a car (fortunately neither horses nor riders were hurt).  We reported the incident to the police and the constable who came to take our statements was very interested to see the pink and silver Puffa jackets, with metallic threads running through which we had been wearing at the time.  The information which we gave, combined with the easily visible jackets, led to the driver being charged with and found guilty of careless driving.
I shall continue to update my riding apparel every time a safety innovation is introduced.  I value my own life and health and that of my horses too much not to do so.  However, I'm not sure that I shall continue to buy a magazine which ridicules me and other safety conscious riders.


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## bumper (20 May 2012)

Pearlsasinger said:



			I asked TFC to bring this thread to the attention of the editor and presumably he did so as she has replied on the thread but I am extremely disappointed with the reply.
My horses (even the 30 yr old) rarely wear rugs, even in the depths of winter, eat very little other than haylage, although admittedly the tiny amount they get in a bucket at around 7.00pm is usually referred to to as 'tea', are expected to behave well in all circumstances and chastised if they don't, so I doubt if even the 'journalist' who wrote the article would consider them to be mollycoddled.
I have been riding, on the roads, amongst other places, for more than 45 yrs and bought my first H&H about 45 yrs ago.  When I started riding I wore a cork hat with an elastic chin strap which, frankly, would have done nothing to protect my head if I had fallen off and landed on it. I now wear a Champion hat with the relevant BS number - does this make me a nervous novice?  Or does it make me prudent? 
I can count on the fingers of one hand, the number of times I've fallen off my own horses in the last 40 yrs but the last time I did was on a road and the horse shot off without me, leaving me lying in the road stunned.  Fortunately I wasn't on my own and the driver who was closest stopped to check on me.  I was wearing hi-viz as was the horse, so we were both easily visible.
We frequently see low-flying helicopters which can see us because of our hi-viz and so avoid us.
Well over 20 yrs ago, sis and I were riding 2 bombproof R&D mares and were involved in an incident with a car (fortunately neither horses nor riders were hurt).  We reported the incident to the police and the constable who came to take our statements was very interested to see the pink and silver Puffa jackets, with metallic threads running through which we had been wearing at the time.  The information which we gave, combined with the easily visible jackets, led to the driver being charged with and found guilty of careless driving.
I shall continue to update my riding apparel every time a safety innovation is introduced.  I value my own life and health and that of my horses too much not to do so.  However, I'm not sure that I shall continue to buy a magazine which ridicules me and other safety conscious riders.[/QUOTE
Brilliant post. Anyone listening?
		
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## Queenbee (20 May 2012)

There has been a lot of mention on here about riders going all 'matchy matchy' with their hi viz and turning it into a fashion statement, not really the route I take, if I brush saddle and bridle area and pick out hooves before I ride I'm hardly going to be concerned that my hi viz looks a bit eclectic.  I do however think that these people should not be ridiculed, if turning hi viz into a fashion statement makes the whole idea more appealing to some horse owners and they go out feeling proud of their matchy efforts instead of feeling like a dork on a horse in cringeworthy bright stuff, I'm all for it.


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## Shantara (20 May 2012)

Queenbee said:



			There has been a lot of mention on here about riders going all 'matchy matchy' with their hi viz and turning it into a fashion statement, not really the route I take, if I brush saddle and bridle area and pick out hooves before I ride I'm hardly going to be concerned that my hi viz looks a bit eclectic.  I do however think that these people should not be ridiculed, if turning hi viz into a fashion statement makes the whole idea more appealing to some horse owners and they go out feeling proud of their matchy efforts instead of feeling like a dork on a horse in cringeworthy bright stuff, I'm all for it.
		
Click to expand...

I like to match, but that's just me. I don't only do it when I ride, but in day to day life too.

I'm doing a little doodle. I wonder if I post it here, they'd publish it  haha
Hopefully it'll be done tomorrow and I can honestly say it's the weirdest thing I've ever drawn....and I did commissions for Furries!!! (If you don't know, google...and be warned)


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## Shantara (20 May 2012)

Here's a little taster


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## Queenbee (20 May 2012)

Where is the "like" button! That's so cool, you need to send that to h&h editor


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## Natch (20 May 2012)

Aw how cool! When its done I say we write a collective open letter to the editor enclosing that doodle!! Xx


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## MerrySherryRider (20 May 2012)

Naturally said:



			Aw how cool! When its done I say we write a collective open letter to the editor enclosing that doodle!! Xx
		
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Does CC get to sign 50 times ?


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## Ceris Comet (20 May 2012)

If you want me too I will HR. Anything that might save a life is ok by me .


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## milo'n'molly (20 May 2012)

Email it to hh they should put it in the mag =D like like like


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## Booboos (20 May 2012)

Just caught up with the H&H response, what a faux pas!!! Being prickly and passive aggressive with your readership over a safety issue in an open forum (even more ironic when it's "your" forum!) - what school of journalistic ethics is that from then??? Come Monday, when the IPC Media PR department is back at work, Ms LH will be falling on her sword while whispering "Mea culpa" as her last words, while simultaneously the H&H Editor will be anouncing the new H&H Hi-Viz campaign in conjunction with BB!


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## Dave282B (20 May 2012)

Thread hijack attempt

Can we have the same passionate debate about ANYBODY who sits on a horses back without a hat and any organisation who endorses it ?


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## Ceris Comet (20 May 2012)

Do you work for H&H Dave ?


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## PucciNPoni (20 May 2012)

Parker79 said:



			This thread has gone truly mad! loving the dog....made me snigger lots! I want to borrow a poodle now so I can spray it lots of colours!!!! and of course cover it in hi-vis!
		
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Parker you can borrow mine - he's partial to pink


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## DougalJ (20 May 2012)

true dragon said:



			other pearls of wisdom in the article included

if you work full time you shouldnt have a horse because you dont have time for it

the average rider should have an irish cob and not have a warm blood or thoroughbred

your a bad owner if you have your horse euthanised by lethal injection
		
Click to expand...

I read the article yesterday and I felt that it was a little condescending TBH. Especially as I am an average rider with a warmblood! LOL The hi-viz comment was the author I think trying to be humorous in her distorted and old fashioned opinions of hacking out. This is 2012 not 1978! In the 8 years I have had my horse, hacking out has become more perilous and you need to be seen, whether you look like Bertie Bassett or a Xmas tree....I think H&H should take a bit more time over their proof reading and have someone cast an eye over their remarks also.


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## ozpoz (20 May 2012)

mle22 said:



			Excellent - I thought we'd all turned into Americans!
		
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Not completely, not quite yet.


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## PucciNPoni (20 May 2012)

ozpoz said:





Not completely, not quite yet.
		
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Funny enough, as an American I cam over here and was shocked to see how pampered the horses were!

Put it this way, our show horses lived out all winter, shoes off, no rugs.  They weren't overfed, rarely did I see an obese animal.  Okay, some might say we're daft for not wearing hats back in those days - and never even heard of hi=viz unless it was deer hunting season and I do appreciate that things have changed re hats over there since I was a younger rider - but I told my aunt about putting on hi viz and she was wondering if I'd lost MY head?    Clippers came out only if they were still really hairy in April just before teh show season commenced.  Mind you, I'm from New England and winters are a helluva lot harder there than they are here.  Hay fed from the floor or outside on the ground is mostly what they'd eat - sometimes a wee hard feed if they were still in work.  Carrots and apples added to feed?  Pshaw...why?!  

Beds in stables over here look like thick mattresses.  Ours back home were a deep bed of sawdust usually.  None of these bales of lovely large flake stuff unless at a show (which is all you could get).  I was really amused that you could look in any stable and just about see people using a spirit level to get the perfect shape to the banks and the front edge looked like it'd been done by an architect.

And yet now that I've been keeping a horse here in the UK, that's the done thing and I just do it....just because...well I don't know.  It's just the way it is.

So...saying that you thought it might be an American thing - think again - or perhaps go and visit sometime.   Or if you have, and you've seen more pampering there than you do here....then WOW, I have been away from home a long time.  Cos most of the folk I know back in hte US are still "roughing it" relatively.


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## Dave282B (20 May 2012)

Hi CC
Nope I don't but it annoys me when everyone chooses to "look the other way" in dressage .
The H&H comment was stupid I agree and you have every right to be annoyed with them and the Editors response was a standard  letter with no thought as to it's effect. All in all they buggered it up.
What I am getting at is no one threatened to never watch or compete in dressage until
It was made mandatory to wear a hat even when working in and certainly if the top professionals did it first it would have much more of a positive effect on impressionable youngsters.
I wear hi vis and sniggered at the BB reference as I do with there occasionally added page filling nonsense.


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## ester (20 May 2012)

I do think that is a totally different situation though, someone riding without a proper hat is putting themselves in danger, not their horse and not the many other road users (although they may well inconvenience those that have to care for them.)


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## ozpoz (20 May 2012)

PucciNPoni said:



			Funny enough, as an American I cam over here and was shocked to see how pampered the horses were!

Put it this way, our show horses lived out all winter, shoes off, no rugs.  They weren't overfed, rarely did I see an obese animal.  Okay, some might say we're daft for not wearing hats back in those days - and never even heard of hi=viz unless it was deer hunting season and I do appreciate that things have changed re hats over there since I was a younger rider - but I told my aunt about putting on hi viz and she was wondering if I'd lost MY head?    Clippers came out only if they were still really hairy in April just before teh show season commenced.  Mind you, I'm from New England and winters are a helluva lot harder there than they are here.  Hay fed from the floor or outside on the ground is mostly what they'd eat - sometimes a wee hard feed if they were still in work.  Carrots and apples added to feed?  Pshaw...why?!  

Beds in stables over here look like thick mattresses.  Ours back home were a deep bed of sawdust usually.  None of these bales of lovely large flake stuff unless at a show (which is all you could get).  I was really amused that you could look in any stable and just about see people using a spirit level to get the perfect shape to the banks and the front edge looked like it'd been done by an architect.

And yet now that I've been keeping a horse here in the UK, that's the done thing and I just do it....just because...well I don't know.  It's just the way it is.

So...saying that you thought it might be an American thing - think again - or perhaps go and visit sometime.   Or if you have, and you've seen more pampering there than you do here....then WOW, I have been away from home a long time.  Cos most of the folk I know back in hte US are still "roughing it" relatively.
		
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Um,no, Puccin' Pony.. I was meaning the (possibly wrong) idea/ stereotype of American's not understanding the meaning of the word 'ironic' .... 

Alanis Morisette's song being a classic example- ok, she's half Canadian, but you get the idea


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## PucciNPoni (20 May 2012)

ozpoz said:



			Um,no, Puccin' Pony.. I was meaning the (possibly wrong) idea/ stereotype of American's not understanding the meaning of the word 'ironic' .... 

Alanis Morisette's song being a classic example- ok, she's half Canadian, but you get the idea

Click to expand...

DOH!  that's what I get for not reading the whole context! LOL and that would be my Yankism of not seeing that.  

And I would agree, we aren't good on getting the irony (in general) though having lived in Scotland now for 11 years now, I'm getting sarcasm pretty well. LOL.


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## Shantara (20 May 2012)

Dave282B said:



			Hi CC
Nope I don't but it annoys me when everyone chooses to "look the other way" in dressage .
The H&H comment was stupid I agree and you have every right to be annoyed with them and the Editors response was a standard  letter with no thought as to it's effect. All in all they buggered it up.
What I am getting at is no one threatened to never watch or compete in dressage until
It was made mandatory to wear a hat even when working in and certainly if the top professionals did it first it would have much more of a positive effect on impressionable youngsters.
I wear hi vis and sniggered at the BB reference as I do with there occasionally added page filling nonsense.
		
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If you're bothered by it, start your own thread about it. Hatless threads get a lot of attention too! 
I hate seeing hatless riders and having seen (on youtube, not first-hand) a dressage horse fling itself over backwards, I know it can be just as dangerous. 
I hate it as much as the next person, but this is about hi-viz and H&Hs silly comments.


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## EstherYoung (20 May 2012)

I think there's a bit of a difference between pictures of hatless riders and if there was, say, an article in a leading magazine that said 'people who wear riding hats are nervous wusses who look like mushroom-heads'. The former are just hurting themselves, but the latter has the potential to do real damage to others. That's what is so concerning about this H&H article.

One thing I am glad of though is that there is now a British Standard for equestrian hi viz. There used to be a lot of overpriced tat on the market which had a price premium on it because it was for horses, but wasn't actually that effective, making it nothing more than a rather dubious fashion statement. Our best high viz/reflective jackets remain those which we have bought from builders merchants, but the equestrian suppliers are getting better partly due to the efforts to standardise the industry.


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## suzysparkle (20 May 2012)

I am amazed that H&H published this comment about Hi-Viz and will be interested to see if the BHS make a comment on it. They have campaigned for a long time about wearing Hi-Viz, and not just when on the road. As has been mentioned earlier in the thread they did a joint campaign with the MOD in an effort to reduce incidents with low flying aircraft. I rarely go on the road but every time I hack out both Horse and I wear Hi-Viz. I wear either a tabbard or Hi-Viz fleece and Horse has leg bands as a minimum. If I do go on the road I also add a hat band. I'm also thinking about getting a Hi-Viz saddlecloth. None of this is excessive and none of it causes discomfort to the Horse. The leg bands are very lightweight. It's a no brainer - walkers see me coming, if I fall off I should be spotted and when they are shooting deer I (or Horse) won't be mistaken for one. 

As for on the road, well, frankly anyone who doesn't wear Hi-Viz is an idiot, and this picture I posted a short while ago shows why. It makes no difference how good a rider you are. Note the picture wasn't taken by me, but by my husband, and he was admiring the view of the Cairngorms to the South. The weather was as perfect as you could ask for. I thought the comments made earlier by a lorry driver were also excellent. As a driver I have frequently come across Horseriders and cyclists who I swear go out looking as invisible as possible - madness!!


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## The Fuzzy Furry (20 May 2012)

HHO admin said:



			Dear forum members

The article in question appears in the 17 May issue and is not available to read online. It is part of an excellent magazine that features brilliant photographs and reports from The Queen's Diamond Jubilee pageant, Royal Windsor Horse Show, a fascinating vet piece on new ways to treat joint problems, and this feature that so many of you are commenting on, despite most not having read it.

If you had read it I am sure that you would agree that the feature is full of sound advice from experts who see far too many horses swaddled in excessive rugs in warm weather and so on. It also advocates safe hacking, though queries (*in one half of a sentence only*) if there is a point at which high-viz kit becomes over the top. Clearly many of you disagree with this point, but it always good to encourage debate on these matters, which in turn helps educate more individuals.

For those of you who have not seen the magazine please do grab yourself a copy of the issue and read this entertaining and thought provoking piece in full, rather than lambasting it unseen. If you would like to comment further than do send us a submission for our letters page at hhletters@ipcmedia.com 

Regards, Lucy Higginson
		
Click to expand...

Lucy, I have just read the article.

I still stand by my words in my previous post on this thread.

I find your comments above very blase & rather condescending to your readership as a whole, but *THAT* throw-away comment in the article  regarding Hi-vis totally detracts from what is otherwise a well put together report.

Unfortunately, as you will be well aware - it can be just 1 comment that inflames people which can then cause the downfall of an individual or even a company...
*Do you remember Mr Ratner & his short comment regarding the stock that was sold in his jewellery shops*?

If you were to take on board the comments on this thread, also talk to ROSPA, the BHS and also the rescue services, I think that a rather prominent retraction/damage limitation article on your website, the magazine & your Facebook page might all possibly help.

Having been out to a large event yesterday, there was a lot of angry talk regarding the unwise 'throw-away' comment. This from quite prominent people in the horseworld. Copies of the unwise worded article were being circulated. 
Today: People were discussing it this morning at my local feed/tack store (its quite a good sized place!). People were quite forcible in their comments...............

Damage limitation ought to be springing to mind for you right now. 


Otherwise... anyone here remember who Ratners were?  I do hope it wont be a case of  'anyone remember what Horse & Hound was?'


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## suzysparkle (20 May 2012)

In case you missed them (easily done), there is a Horse and Rider on the road.


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## Shanny_mare (20 May 2012)

I guessed that there must be but I did have to look twice and then a third time


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## ester (20 May 2012)

ah I tried to find that pic earlier so I could link it but couldn't remember whose it was! 

FF.. ratners.. no idea ...


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## Meowy Catkin (20 May 2012)

suzysparkle said:



			In case you missed them (easily done), there is a Horse and Rider on the road.
		
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Am I correct? Do I win a nice hi-viz outfit?


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## The Fuzzy Furry (20 May 2012)

ester said:



			ah I tried to find that pic earlier so I could link it but couldn't remember whose it was! 

FF.. ratners.. no idea ...
		
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Ratners 'was' a major jewellery chain in the UK. He (Gerald Ratner, the owner) gave a throwaway comment that it was 'total c r a p' this had knock on events...... company does not exist now.

(Am sure it will all be around on Wiki or google etc)


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## Cheiro1 (20 May 2012)

I never go out without a hat band, tabard and my horse has a high viz version of the ear covers that SJers wear. FAB invention 

However having read this I have also ordered some leg wraps for her, as I said to some guy who stopped to ask why she had her ears on, I'd rather her seen than hit!


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## stevieg (20 May 2012)

RunToEarth said:



			The inverted snobbery on this thread is awful. my horses are not on full livery and I don't work in London. I do think if you gave two hoots about yours, your horses or other road user's safety you would not ride on the roads at all. And no, I don't wear hi viz.
		
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That does seem like rather a silly thing to say. If you don't ride on the roads where do you ride? There's only so much a horse can learn from an arena or a field.
I certainly do give two hoots about my horses safety and I am sure the professional eventers, a large number of whom use road work as part of their fittening regime, also give two hoots.
And does your local hunt hunt solely across the fields? How lucky you are!

My daughter has worked for two professional eventers and she was not allowed to leave either yard on horseback without hi viz so of course I support it's use. I just think the comments made have been taken out of context somewhat.


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## milo'n'molly (20 May 2012)

Horse wears yellow "ears" and they're fab


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## Cheiro1 (20 May 2012)

milo'n'molly said:



			Horse wears yellow "ears" and they're fab
		
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Glad i'm not the only one who's horse has yellow ears!!


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## Luci07 (20 May 2012)

Well I, unlike the vast majority of the posters on here actually did buy the magazine and read the entire article. I honestly did not see it as mocking those who wear hi viz, maybe a comment on those who really do go completely head to toe. I would prefer not to wear hi viz, I would prefer not to wear a hat but accept it is safer to do so.  Maybe I am just a little less sensitive about it?! I even tried to have youngest Stafford wearing a hi viz vest but sadly have given that up as fed up with all the many walks I have had to o to go back and retrieve said vest from bushes, she just has a collar now.

Still I do have one piece of hi viz which is now banned at the yard. I bought a full length riding coat, cheaply but for some reason it completely freaks out all the other horses. Luckily they don't  mind my police look alike short one!!


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## Pearlsasinger (20 May 2012)

bumper said:



			.[/QUOTE
Brilliant post. Anyone listening?
		
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Well not so far!
Although it is possible that on Monday morning minds could be changed, especially in the light of the Fuzzy Furry's  observations.  If a large number of people have posted on here and another large number are commenting on FB, as well as anecdotal evidence of 'Bertie Basset' discussions at various horse events round the country, it may well be that the real Lucy Higginson (who may not actually know the content of 'her' post on this thread) takes a different line in the cold light of the working week.
Yes I do remember the 'Ratners' episode/scandal and the exceptionally quick demise of the chain following GR's ill-advised comment.


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## ester (20 May 2012)

wiki'd


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## magic104 (20 May 2012)

I have not read every single post so hopefully someone has also covered this.  The other reason for wearing Hi-viz especially if you ride out alone & off the roads is if you have an accident & are knocked out, you will be much easier to spot.  It is not uncommon for them to send a helicopter out to search well think how much move visiable you would be with hi-viz


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## Booboos (20 May 2012)

suzysparkle said:



			In case you missed them (easily done), there is a Horse and Rider on the road.
		
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I knew there must be a rider/cyclist on that photo and I still could not find him! I had a mild incling that the shadow you cicled may have been a pedestrian but only because I was really, really looking to find someone.

Sunny days are often much more dangerous with respect to visibility than overcast ones.


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## lannerch (20 May 2012)

Interesting lucie07 so how many of you have actually properly read the article ( I still havnt ) am even more suspicious now it's a mountain out of a molehill scinario!


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## Ranyhyn (20 May 2012)

Luci07 said:



			, maybe a comment on those who really do go completely head to toe.
		
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But what's the point?  Isn't that why the horse world is seen as so snarky - this needless belittling others who do something different to others, but cause no harm?  You expect it of the small minded livery set but this is a massive magazine with a huge audience of readers.
Seems very bad show to be so rude and unpleasant when there is just no need.

Plus, there will inevitably be impressionable people who rightly or wrongly, CARE what H+H spouts.  Who will convince them of the safety side when their favourite magazine suggests too much is to be ridiculed?  

For me, hats look ridiculous, egg headed idiots we make ourselves!  Body protectors make us walk like C3Po!!  But we shouldn't care how we look or how we are perceieved - if it keeps us safe.

So I'll be happy for Lucy to call me BB if she likes


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## Marydoll (20 May 2012)

I have read the article and still hold my views, a throw away comment, but still a very stupid one that may influence those who are easily influenced and wont wear hi viz for fear of being ridiculed ... after all theyre called bertie bassets in horse and hound ..... Silly comment that imo needs a retraction


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## touchstone (20 May 2012)

I don't believe that it is a mountain out of a molehill, it was a careless, little thought out comment that could have very damaging consequences.  Roads are very different to ride on compared to years ago when you could get away with little/no hi viz.  

Calling people stupid names (how hilarious!) for wearing 'too much' hi viz shows a lack of sense and understanding, and  sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, they overstepped the boundaries on this one I'm afraid.


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## Ladydragon (20 May 2012)

Luci07 said:



			Well I, unlike the vast majority of the posters on here actually did buy the magazine and read the entire article. I honestly did not see it as mocking those who wear hi viz, maybe a comment on those who really do go completely head to toe.
		
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Yeah, read it too...  Don't agree...  I thought it was pretty interesting then my jaw dropped with a "Are they for real" thought...  Throwaway, sarcastic and more than a little bit irresponsible...  But hey, it's horse related...  Taking a sly dig at others is apparently perfectly acceptable...

I was wearing as much reflective stuff as I could and a constant dipped beam when I started riding a motorbike 30 years ago and the roads were substantially quieter...  Transferring the same thought process to horse riding is a bit of a no brainer...  The roads are far busier these days yet some bright spark decides to advocate a 'less is more appropriate' snotty type approach for horse riders...  Go figure...


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## milo'n'molly (20 May 2012)

Well I have read the article and whilst there is some sense, it is hugely irresponsible to make comments like that when people are just trying to do the best they can for their horse. What harm can it do anyone to wear all the high cuz possible? Was also not satisfied with the response from hh administration on here, how patronising of them, more thought needed. On another note has anyone brought this thread to the attention of the bhs?


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## Shantara (20 May 2012)

lannerch said:



			Interesting lucie07 so how many of you have actually properly read the article ( I still havnt ) am even more suspicious now it's a mountain out of a molehill scinario!
		
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I've just been to the local supermarket and thought I'd have a read...

I could feel myself getting more and more red-faced as I did so! I'm shocked!
The whole article is written in a "We know best. Stupid novices" kind of way. Usually I like "7 deadly sin" type articles, but this one is a total mockery of horse owners. The bit about the warmbloods annoyed me too. I've seen "safe" cobbie types that would sooner kill you, than look at you and ex racers etc, who I wouldn't mind putting a toddler on. Sweeping generalisation of their readers on all accounts.


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## Shantara (20 May 2012)

Luci07 said:



			Well I, unlike the vast majority of the posters on here actually did buy the magazine and read the entire article. I honestly did not see it as mocking those who wear hi viz, maybe a comment on those who really do go completely head to toe. I would prefer not to wear hi viz, I would prefer not to wear a hat but accept it is safer to do so.  Maybe I am just a little less sensitive about it?!
		
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I'd rather not have to wear hi-viz, or a hat, or a body protector, or gloves, or make the horse wear a saddle, or a bridle, or anything like that...but they're all made for safety and I know I am better off with all that stuff, so I do use it. And since I'm using it, why not make it matchy matchy and fun? 
I personally like drawing patterns on mine


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## Booboos (20 May 2012)

I would suspect that the comment was not careless, but that the entire article was intended to 'provoke' in the Daily Fail sense of the word, i.e. make some imaginary stuff up that ridicules some people in the hopes of causing a (profitable) controvercy.


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## Ceris Comet (20 May 2012)

Not profitable if people are canceling subs left, right and center .


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## Dave282B (20 May 2012)

I've helped your cause CC as I cancelled mine but the reason was I do it this time every year as I have too much to do during nice weather . Trouble is I will buy nexts weeks hoping for a retraction


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## Ceris Comet (20 May 2012)

It's everyone's cause surely to save lives.


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## PucciNPoni (20 May 2012)

RunToEarth said:



			The inverted snobbery on this thread is awful. my horses are not on full livery and I don't work in London. I do think if you gave two hoots about yours, your horses or other road user's safety you would not ride on the roads at all. And no, I don't wear hi viz.
		
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hmmmm a friend of mine lives on Anglesey - where apparently the MOD has advised the wearing of HiViz even if schooling on your own yard ?!  I could have this wrong - but it might seem over the top but when helicopters are hovering about your arena on exercise, might be useful at least to have hi-viz gloves (like I gave to my friend last xmas) so they can clearly see which fingers she's holding up!


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## lannerch (20 May 2012)

I suspect cc though they are not cancelling sibscriptions left right and centre. How many even have subscriptions?
Personally I would never consider cancelling a subscription due to a flippent comment ( as I posted earlier even if they wrote all eventers smell ) because lets face that would be a massive overreaction and I do query the motivation for your obsession about the subject, do you work for the opposition perhaps?


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## Ceris Comet (20 May 2012)

No, just horrified about what I read . I feel strongly about the wrong message going out to impressional youngster who now may well put themselves at risk .


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## Shantara (20 May 2012)

lannerch said:



			I suspect cc though they are not cancelling sibscriptions left right and centre. How many even have subscriptions?
Personally I would never consider cancelling a subscription due to a flippent comment ( as I posted earlier even if they wrote all eventers smell ) because lets face that would be a massive overreaction and I do query the motivation for your obsession about the subject, do you work for the opposition perhaps? 

Click to expand...

Maybe she's just passionate about it? I know I am!!


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## alliersv1 (20 May 2012)

I read the whole article, and felt that it was a throwaway remark, but that it was meant all the same. 
It was an irresponsible thing to say, and as others have said; it's taken long enough to get people to come round to the idea of Hi vis, but it only takes one stupid, flippant remark to make all the people who are terrified of being labelled as "happy hackers" or "novices" put their hi vis away and increase their risk of being hit.
I work on the railway, so wear it most days anyway, and it's just another bit of kit to me, but I wish people would put safety over vanity and help themselves be seen.

I also remember Mr Ratner. Epic fail.


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## AprilBlossom (20 May 2012)

I thoroughly enjoyed the article and ref the hi-viz, interpreted it as 'whilst hi viz is great, there's no need to break the bank and buy everything you possibly can in the stuff'! The Bertie Bassett likening made me chuckle, so true! 
I don't wear hi viz, but don't really hack on roads. I also ride within a few miles of a small airfield but don't feel I need to hi viz for the benefit of a helicopter either - its not like they'd be looking down a great deal is it!


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## Ceris Comet (20 May 2012)

If god forbid you ever have a fall they will be .


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## Marydoll (20 May 2012)

I hacked out this morning, very quiet country roads, but lots of runners, cyclists and the occassional lorry or car, i wore a Hi viz pink jacket 
Horse wore a hi viz pink quarter sheet and boot wraps, with hi viz pink martingale and rein covers. ( oilseed rape is nearly 4ft high )
My friends call me Marydoll, numptys like Ms Higgison call me Bertie Basset


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## Parker79 (20 May 2012)

AprilBlossom said:



			I thoroughly enjoyed the article and ref the hi-viz, interpreted it as 'whilst hi viz is great, there's no need to break the bank and buy everything you possibly can in the stuff'! The Bertie Bassett likening made me chuckle, so true! 
I don't wear hi viz, but don't really hack on roads. I also ride within a few miles of a small airfield but don't feel I need to hi viz for the benefit of a helicopter either - its not like they'd be looking down a great deal is it!
		
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We are encouraged to use hi-vis as we ride in the New Forest....Air ambulance would never find us!  Would hate to think of mine running around the forest without hi-viz either... its 40pmh twisty roads!

CC - I can understand your passion


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## EstherYoung (20 May 2012)

The positioning of the comment was weird too, and didn't really fit in - it was between a quote encouraging people to get out of the school and go hacking, and a comment warning readers that winding country lanes can be more dangerous than wide open roads. The 'Bertie Bassett' sentence could have been left out completely and the article would have read better IMO.


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## AprilBlossom (20 May 2012)

Parker79, I get the hi viz on horse in NF so should you part company steed is more visible to search party/drivers, but I thought helicopters use heat seeking cameras to find people in such a circumstance? Genuine question btw, I'm not trying to cause argument, just curious.


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## Ranyhyn (20 May 2012)

^ I'd always like to have visual back up, in case of good old equiptment malfunctions etc


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## alliersv1 (20 May 2012)

AprilBlossom said:



			Parker79, I get the hi viz on horse in NF so should you part company steed is more visible to search party/drivers, but I thought helicopters use heat seeking cameras to find people in such a circumstance? Genuine question btw, I'm not trying to cause argument, just curious.
		
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I know the police helicopters use heatseeking equipment (on crims, usually at night...seen it on Road wars eh!  ), but am not sure whether air ambulances are fitted with the technology or not. I suppose they might be.
Either way though, it's still better to be visible from the air if possible, just incase


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## Parker79 (20 May 2012)

AprilBlossom said:



			Parker79, I get the hi viz on horse in NF so should you part company steed is more visible to search party/drivers, but I thought helicopters use heat seeking cameras to find people in such a circumstance? Genuine question btw, I'm not trying to cause argument, just curious.
		
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No worries...I suppose the problem in the forest would be all the new forest ponies perhaps? (of course I realise they are a different shape!). I dont know but we have a poster on the wall in our tack room from air ambulance asking us to wear high hi vis


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## Rowreach (20 May 2012)

Advice is to wear hiviz so that helis and other low flying aircraft can see you, and emergency helis can find you quicker.  I used to live on a Chinook flight path and training area, and we wore hiviz even when riding in the school for this reason


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## touchstone (20 May 2012)

I was issued with Hi Viz from the MOD, an exercise sheet and tabard so that low flying aircraft and helicopters could see me, so it must make a difference!

The BHS have info here:- 

After the tragic death of Mrs Heather Bell, which was directly attributed to an incident with a low-flying helicopter, the Coroner instructed the Ministry of Defence to undertake a review such that this must never happen again.

The major review was undertaken working closely with the BHS following the Coroners instruction that the MoD should work closely with equestrians to resolve the matter. It quickly became obvious that the most economical and easiest way for pilots to identify equestrians was for riders to wear hi-viz (fluorescent) clothing on both themselves and their horse. Extensive trials were undertaken using two riders who acted as guinea pigs for the Chinook pilots and it was easily shown that with a rider wearing a hi-viz jacket, a hat band/cover and the horse wearing a hi-viz fly sheet, the pilot could see them up to half-a-mile sooner. That was plenty of time for them to avoid over-flight and thus avoid frightening the horse and rider. Many riders wearing appropriate hi-viz clothing have reported that they have witnessed pilots taking avoiding action and remained safe as a result of this.


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## AprilBlossom (20 May 2012)

Lol that's where I got the idea from - some sort of police tv programme where the chase down chavs with a heat seeking heli! Never even thought of hi biz for anything other than roadwork really...


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## blood_magik (20 May 2012)

I've just ordered a set of hi-viz leg wraps for mine because of the amount of hacking we'll be doing on the roads. he wears an exercise sheet and I have a hi-viz jacket.

I'd rather my horse not be hit by a car.


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## The Fuzzy Furry (20 May 2012)

touchstone said:



			I was issued with Hi Viz from the MOD, an exercise sheet and tabard so that low flying aircraft and helicopters could see me, so it must make a difference!

The BHS have info here:- 

After the tragic death of Mrs Heather Bell, which was directly attributed to an incident with a low-flying helicopter, the Coroner instructed the Ministry of Defence to undertake a review such that this must never happen again.

The major review was undertaken working closely with the BHS following the Coroners instruction that the MoD should work closely with equestrians to resolve the matter. It quickly became obvious that the most economical and easiest way for pilots to identify equestrians was for riders to wear hi-viz (fluorescent) clothing on both themselves and their horse. Extensive trials were undertaken using two riders who acted as guinea pigs for the Chinook pilots and it was easily shown that with a rider wearing a hi-viz jacket, a hat band/cover and the horse wearing a hi-viz fly sheet, the pilot could see them up to half-a-mile sooner. That was plenty of time for them to avoid over-flight and thus avoid frightening the horse and rider. Many riders wearing appropriate hi-viz clothing have reported that they have witnessed pilots taking avoiding action and remained safe as a result of this.
		
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And this advice ^ is also what is issued by our local airfield, which has a very busy schedule with training, pleasure and business flights for Heli and fixed wing 7 days a week. This is less than a mile from the M25 and also close to 2 large commons.


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## Ceris Comet (20 May 2012)

I received the same advice when I used to ride out over the downs in Wiltshire.


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## lannerch (20 May 2012)

I've just read the first line and don't worry I too am a pansy I might not deck myself and my horse out like Bertie Bassett orca Christmas tree ( for those that have not read the whole thread I do wear a tabbard before you shoot me down ) however I d turn my horse out in a rug just to keep him clean. And no even so I will not be cancelling my subscription


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## Marydoll (20 May 2012)

lannerch said:



			I've just read the first line and don't worry I too am a pansy I might not deck myself and my horse out like Bertie Bassett orca Christmas tree ( for those that have not read the whole thread I do wear a tabbard before you shoot me down ) however I d turn my horse out in a rug just to keep him clean. And no even so I will not be cancelling my subscription 

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Omga a rug to keep clean  shocking


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## piebaldsparkle (20 May 2012)

The Fuzzy Furry said:



			And this advice ^ is also what is issued by our local airfield, which has a very busy schedule with training, pleasure and business flights for Heli and fixed wing 7 days a week. This is less than a mile from the M25 and also close to 2 large commons.
		
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This just shows how out of touch HHo (or their rep.) is.


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## Vixen Van Debz (20 May 2012)

I think it's terrible that such a damaging comment was allowed into an otherwise mostly sound article, and am even less impressed at the unapologetic, ignorant response of Lucy in the face of the majority opinion of the readership posting on this thread. Writing to IPC may well have a more direct effect than this thread I think though, given IPC's sale of Hi-Viz and the potential knock-on effect on subscription.

I would like to make a small point though: while there is no such thing as too much hi-viz, there is a point where adding more high viz won't make the horse and rider perceptible to others sooner. For example, I doubt yellow ears and rein covers will aid visual reaction times when the pair already have on a high viz nose-band, breast plate, boots, stirrup clips, leg bangs (on the rider), a tabbard and an exercise sheet. However, if this is the point the writer was trying to make (and certainly I think contributors to this thread were trying to assert as much), H&H have failed woefully. On top of that, labelling those who wear lots of high-viz negatively is deplorable for such a widely available publication: for me, making sure yourself and your horse are both easily visible (including when separated) is a duty of care not only to your animal, but it is the action of a fair and responsible road user, and can reduce the amount of time lost in searching for casualties by the emergency services. For such a flippant comment to cast negativity on folk who take such a responsibility is so wrong that it is laughable.

The best thing about this article is clearly this thread, and I for one have enjoyed reading it.

Shame on you H&H!


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## Ceris Comet (20 May 2012)

Hopefully we will get a more thought out response In the morning from H&H.


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## kirstyl (20 May 2012)

Would like to add that after reading a large part of this thread I bought 4 fluorescent leg wraps which I hacked out in today. I always wear a tabard but the comments here made me realise my horse needed to be easily spotted too. Thank you all!


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## Queenbee (20 May 2012)

Cc, I'm worse than you, my mare is consistently in a mw stable rug at the moment, I'm the biggest mollycoddler of em all  although in my defense she is poorly and has lost lots of weight, normally she would be roasting in it!


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## Ceris Comet (20 May 2012)

H&H need to now try to encourage hi-viz before a life is lost due to that ridiculous article.


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## justforfun (20 May 2012)

Wow, I am still shocked with some peoples attitude towards 'too much hi-viz'
I think I look like a muppet on the roads but its not about me is it?  its about my horses safety, my own and all road users.
I would rather live in my hoody, but then again I am not selfish.
Horse riding is a risk to me and my horse  but do I want to add yet another risk from a motorist without some kind of prevention?
I am on a yard where we have lots of young people go out ridng on the roads, no hi-hiz and no manners either, I am ashamed to be on the same yard as such SELFSH people.
Surely this must reflect upon out yard?
If I was a yard owner I would insist upon some kind of hi-viz, even a tabard and somthing on the horse.
IN todays society of the 'no win, no fee claims'  I for one wouldnt be happy if I had injured  horse in my car because I was unable to it on the roads, and thnk some horse riders would be in for a rocky ride if they was involved in an accident when they wasnt vissable.


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## Ceris Comet (20 May 2012)

A perfect post JFF xxx


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## PeterNatt (20 May 2012)

My advice is to wear long sleeved Hi-Vis so that other road users can see your hand signals.  Also have a dog tag on your bridle, saddle and head collar with your contact details and that of your vet so that if you are seperated it is easy to contact you or your vet.


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## duckling (20 May 2012)

Just another thing to those mentioning hi-viz rein sleeves - we were advised not to use these on R&RS exam training cos if for whatever reason your horse gets loose or needs to be caught, grabbing a rein sleeve isn't going to help much as it will just slide right along the reins and you wont have any grip...


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## Ceris Comet (20 May 2012)

Excellent advice as always Peter .


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## Ceris Comet (20 May 2012)

piebaldsparkle said:



			This just shows how out of touch HHo (or their rep.) is.
		
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They are so obviously locked in their Ivory Tower that real life issues dont concern them


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## Bikerchickone (21 May 2012)

Wow loads of interest in this thread I'm pleased to see! I re read the article again today and showed it to my non horsey parents who were also shocked at the attitude taken by Horse and Hound. 

I don't use every little bit of hi viz I can get my hands on but I do have the polite tabard, rainsheet, hatband, leg wraps and neck strap. I will continue doing my Bertie Bassett impersonation because I know it makes car drivers take notice. I value my life and that of my horses. Who cares about a fashion statement, except maybe all the teenagers who will read that article and decide not to bother! Well done Lucy, hope you're proud of yourself and your team. 

Also waiting to see this thread in the top 5 next week!


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## Ceris Comet (21 May 2012)

bikerchickone said:



			Wow loads of interest in this thread I'm pleased to see! I re read the article again today and showed it to my non horsey parents who were also shocked at the attitude taken by Horse and Hound. 

I don't use every little bit of hi viz I can get my hands on but I do have the polite tabard, rainsheet, hatband, leg wraps and neck strap. I will continue doing my Bertie Bassett impersonation because I know it makes car drivers take notice. I value my life and that of my horses. Who cares about a fashion statement, except maybe all the teenagers who will read that article and decide not to bother! Well done Lucy, hope you're proud of yourself and your team. 

Also waiting to see this thread in the top 5 next week!
		
Click to expand...

Its the youngsters that Im worried about. I have two , and trying to get them to wear hi-viz was hard enough before HH decided that it was soooooo uncoool


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## piebaldsparkle (21 May 2012)

Nah said:



			Here's a little taster 






Click to expand...

LOVE IT


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## milo'n'molly (21 May 2012)

Glad to see this thread has stayed on the front page


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## lannerch (21 May 2012)

Ive now read the whole article and overreaction is a massive understatement for those that havnt read the article ( suspect most if you ) go back and read it all it says I quote 'a hiviz vest may be prudent for roadwork but not the bertie Bassett levels of neon seen on some horse and riders, undoubtedly traffic is a consideration while volume and shortage of off road hacking is worse around London and big cities winding rural roads can be as treacherous if one meets a wannabe rally driver'
It is tongue in cheek the whole way through critizising most of us horse owners in a very humorous light way I enjoyed it


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## Tinypony (21 May 2012)

I've read it and I disagree with you Lannerch.
I didn't read this as tongue in cheek, and if it was supposed to be then it's pretty poor writing because that is not clear from the style:
"...a hiviz vest may be prudent for roadwork but not the bertie Bassett levels of neon seen on some horse and riders..."
That is very clear - "a high vis vest maybe prudent"  No, I think the majority of riders would agree that it's a very good idea indeed.
"but not the Bertie Bassett levels of neon seen on some horses and riders"  So what's not "prudent" about that?  
The definition of prudent is wise or judicious in practical affairs, cautious, discreet, wary, careful and similar words.  (that would be discreet within the definition of that word meaning to be judicious rather to avoid being embarrassed).
The article is clearly saying that it is not wise to wear "Bertie Bassett" levels of neon.  

One of the reasons I don't normally buy these horsey magazines is because they are filled with adverts and padded out with pointless articles like this that are designed to stroke egos.  They have very little substance and really only repeat common topics of discussion and generally agreed wisdom.  In this case however a seriously misleading statement was made and although I tend not to get wound up about this sort of thing, I can understand completely why so many people are.


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## quirky (21 May 2012)

Ceris Comet said:



			Excellent advice as always Peter .
		
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What made you change your tune CC? PN makes no mention of the horse wearing hi viz, yet he gives "excellent advice". You have ridiculed anybody else who has made such a similar statement .



PeterNatt said:



			My advice is to wear long sleeved Hi-Vis so that other road users can see your hand signals.  Also have a dog tag on your bridle, saddle and head collar with your contact details and that of your vet so that if you are seperated it is easy to contact you or your vet.
		
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## Ceris Comet (21 May 2012)

Hello !! Peter advised WEARING hi-viz and anyone who has any interest in saving lives would agree


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## MerrySherryRider (21 May 2012)

quirky said:



			What made you change your tune CC? PN makes no mention of the horse wearing hi viz, yet he gives "excellent advice". You have ridiculed anybody else who has made such a similar statement .
		
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I was a bit surprised too.


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## touchstone (21 May 2012)

Here's what the BHS say about it:-


The dark nights and early mornings can make riding on the road more dangerous. Even low sun on a bright winter's day can temporarily blind a motorist causing them to miss seeing a pony and rider in time. That's why it is so important to wear high visibility clothing and to make sure your pony has hi-viz as part of their tack too.

It doesn't have to be winter or dusk for you to wear hi-viz items. In fact, it's best that riders always wear hi-viz when out on the road as it give motorists more time to see you and slow down.
So what is hi-viz clothing?

High visibility or hi-viz is clothing that is fluorescent and  / or reflective. It looks bright and eye catching in daylight and shows up well in low light levels. Hi-viz that is also reflective, can shine when a torch or car headlights are shone onto it.

You can get many different types of hi-viz clothing for you and your pony, from tabards and jackets to riding hat bands and gloves for riders. For your pony there are loads of hi-viz items, such as martingale-style neck bands, tail wraps, quarter shees and leg bands.

They even come in pink! It is a scientific fact that leg-bands are seen first by motorists beacuse they are moving as the horse walks along.

*So if you have to ride out on the road, always wear as much hi-viz clothing on both you and your pony as you can, no matter what time of day, what time of year and regardless of what the weather iss doing.*

You'll stand out from the crows and stay safe!


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## Tinypony (21 May 2012)

Always a good idea to stand out from the crows Touchstone.  One wouldn't want to be mistaken for a crow.

I thought Peter Natt's advice wasn't quite right (very unusual for him!) because he didn't say that the horse should wear something high viz.


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## touchstone (21 May 2012)

Tinypony said:



			Always a good idea to stand out from the crows Touchstone.  One wouldn't want to be mistaken for a crow.

I thought Peter Natt's advice wasn't quite right (very unusual for him!) because he didn't say that the horse should wear something high viz.
		
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Lol, I copied and pasted that too!


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## Ceris Comet (21 May 2012)

Thanks for posting the BHS advice Touchstone.


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## Shysmum (21 May 2012)

Just ordered a tail guard, and I also have yellow hi vis chaps. I will not ride without it. i have to say, the number of horses that simply cannot be seen round us (and I'm talking a main A road) is shocking - please understand that even as a careful horse watching driver, you CANNOT be seen in sunny conditions, as well as against trees and in bad weather. I have been shocked to drive "almost right onto" horses and riders in various clothing, cos they have just blended in. One particular couple ride out, one in hi vis, the other in none, and the difference is incredible. And words failed me yesterday - not only no hi vis, but two kids riding one TB on the main road, no saddle, and horse clearly spooky. For god's sake. 

This tabard has literally changed the way traffic behaves towards myself and Shy. it's been a revelation. I will do anything to protect my beloved pony.  x


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## Shysmum (21 May 2012)

I should add here - hubs is a former copper, and had the misfortune to have to attend a horse-thru-the-windscreen incident. The horse was killed instantly, the driver was decapitated. nuff said.


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## ClobellsandBaubles (21 May 2012)

justforfun said:



			Wow, I am still shocked with some peoples attitude towards 'too much hi-viz'
I think I look like a muppet on the roads but its not about me is it?  its about my horses safety, my own and all road users.
I would rather live in my hoody, but then again I am not selfish.
		
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I discovered neon hi viz hoodys the other day


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## Niddlynoo (21 May 2012)

As a result of this thread I am about to order some leg wraps and other hi-viz. I admit to only using tabard up until now!


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## Jesstickle (21 May 2012)

Booboos said:



			I would suspect that the comment was not careless, but that the entire article was intended to 'provoke' in the Daily Fail sense of the word, i.e. make some imaginary stuff up that ridicules some people in the hopes of causing a (profitable) controvercy.
		
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Agreed. And it's the reason I don't subscribe any more. I used to love H&H and grew up with it (it lived in our downstairs loo as a kid ) but it just isn't the same these days. Sorry IPC but it just isn't.

I  have read the article, although I'll confess I didn't buy it, just read it in Tesco. 

I stand by everything I said. It's still a ridiculously irresponsible thing to have said, even if it was said in a 'light hearted' way.


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## quirky (21 May 2012)

Ceris Comet said:



			Hello !! Peter advised WEARING hi-viz and anyone who has any interest in saving lives would agree
		
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You need to read back what has been said, by whom and your response.
You are talking c-rap 

Take a look at llanerch's posts and how you responded.

I don't expect an apology .


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## Bertolie (21 May 2012)

Niddlynoo said:



			As a result of this thread I am about to order some leg wraps and other hi-viz. I admit to only using tabard up until now!
		
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Same here.  I have also had the misfortune of a rider becoming parted from one of my horses.  Horse paniced and bolted, ending up on a main road approximately 5 miles away.  The horse did not have any hi-viz on him, was galloping down a shaded road in glorious October sunshine and collided with a car.  According to the vet, the only things that saved the lives of both my horse and the driver/passenger of the car was the fact that 1) he was unshod, and 2) a passing motorcyclist took a brave decision to 'race' the horse, overtake him (horse was travelling at 45+ miles an hour) and alert the oncoming traffic which meant that the car was stationery at the time.  

Even after the accident I didn't think it was necessary to deck my other (sensible) horse out in hi-viz when hacking.  I always wear a tabbard and felt that was enough, but will now be ordering some hi-viz leg bands as a minimum for both of my horses.


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## ribbons (21 May 2012)

Do you know, the one thing that annoys me about this forum. Is time and time again people posting arrogant and sometimes rude responses which are the result of not reading the post they are replying to properly. Often I read something unpleasant and think, the poster has actually made themselves look silly, by skim reading and getting it wrong. I have not read a post properly before replying on one occasion. Thankfully I try not to be overly judgemental so it wasn't offensive, just an inaccurate reply by me. I quickly apologised and corrected myself.
It would be nice if brains were in gear before some people let the clutch out on their mouths. (or keypads in this instance)


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## PandorasJar (21 May 2012)

A response from BHS...




			Thank you for your emailed enquiry which has been forwarded to me for response.  I have read the article in Horse & Hound which has generated the thread to which you refer.  The BHS will be making a response to this but of course have no jurisdiction over whether it will be printed in the magazine or not.  We strongly recommend that hi-viz equipment is worn by both horse and rider whenever they ride out, regardless of the time of day, time of year or prevailing weather conditions.  It is a fact that wearing such equipment allows others to see riders and take whatever action is necessary to avoid an incident between them, or indeed to help recover a rider who may be lying hurt on the ground. 



I hope this answers your enquiry, but if you feel there is anything further I can do to help you, please do not hesitate to contact me.

Kind regards

Sheila Hardy



Sheila Hardy (Mrs)

Senior Executive Safety

The British Horse Society
		
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Will be interesting to see if H&H print the BHS response...

Pan


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## Ceris Comet (21 May 2012)

If trying to keep this issue in the forefront of peoples minds and want to saves lives is talking c**p then I guess I'll just carry on .


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## Feathered (21 May 2012)

C'mon Nah!! We wanna see the final Bertie Bassett cartoon   

Think you should do it as a mock-up of the next h&h front cover


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## Batgirl (21 May 2012)

Cloball said:



			I discovered neon hi viz hoodys the other day 

Click to expand...

I have one, cost £15 off ebay


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## canteron (21 May 2012)

Did you know Bertie Bassett is 80 - as he is obviously still riding its a very good idea for him to wear lots of hi-viz, good on you Bertie.

Oh and he has just tied the knot, many congrats!

http://www.cadbury.co.uk/contact/Pr...h res images and PR/Documents/pr-bassetts.pdf

(I had to look up Bertie Bassett as I didn't know who he was!!!)


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## Marydoll (21 May 2012)

I emailed direct to senior members in ipc media regarding this ...... Not even had a reply, ive printed off a copy of all their magazines and holdings, if they dont have the decency to respond, why should i buy anything that'll give them a profit, cant say im impressed if this is how they react to their customers .


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## BlairandAzria (21 May 2012)

Quote feathered: c'mon NaH!! 

Agree!!! Nah! Would love to see your hi-viz Bertie!


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## Shysmum (21 May 2012)




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## PandorasJar (21 May 2012)

marydoll said:



			I emailed direct to senior members in ipc media regarding this ...... Not even had a reply, ive printed off a copy of all their magazines and holdings, if they dont have the decency to respond, why should i buy anything that'll give them a profit, cant say im impressed if this is how they react to their customers .
		
Click to expand...

BHS have emailed me a response to this thread saying that they are going to respond to the article but have no guarantee H&H will print in the next magazine.

Hopefully they will!

Pan


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## mtj (21 May 2012)

Feathered said:



			C'mon Nah!! We wanna see the final Bertie Bassett cartoon   

Think you should do it as a mock-up of the next h&h front cover 

Click to expand...

So will the headline be "Bertie Bassettgate"?


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## florette (21 May 2012)

As someone from a 'tradition' horsey background, an instructor and y.o I found the whole article rather patronising! The hi-viz comment was most unhelpful considering all the recent work done by the BHS etc to encourage people to wear more hi-viz


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## MerrySherryRider (21 May 2012)

marydoll said:



			I emailed direct to senior members in ipc media regarding this ...... Not even had a reply, ive printed off a copy of all their magazines and holdings, if they dont have the decency to respond, why should i buy anything that'll give them a profit, cant say im impressed if this is how they react to their customers .
		
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Just wondering if those that feel so strongly and are boycotting the magazine will also be boycotting HHO ? Seems a little incongruous to be still using the forum.

Disclaimer. Yes I do wear hi viz and no, I didn't take offence at the article. Thought it was tongue in cheek remark with enough element of truth to be amusing. 

Perhaps the article has actually promoted hi viz judging by the number of posters rushing out to buy extra items.
Perhaps HH should have a pat on the back.


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## jessykai (21 May 2012)

BlairandAzria said:



			The thing is.....as soon as you and your horse step foot on the roads you cease to have control:  you cant possibly know what you are going to come across; tractors, buses, a hgv, a milk float, a flotilla of cyclists wizzing past, *or even a granny driving her nissan micra back from afternoon bingo*, _you just dont know._

Click to expand...


Well, I started this thread thinking "urgh silly H&H", now I'm sad   I have a nissan micra, and I'm not a old granny  


this isn't me riding but it's my hi viz stuff












we do get funny looks when she wears that lol, but if they're looking at us funny it must mean they can see us 


I usually have a hiviz jacket on when I ride as well as the tabard, but I was wearing that walking at the side lol
She also has leg wraps & I'm currently looking out for hat band lol


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## BlairandAzria (21 May 2012)

Ooops sorry ....maybe I should qualify....my granny drives a Nissan micra (to and from tescos once a week and too and from the bingo once a week, like clockwork), sorry no offence intended to any Nissan drivers!


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## jessykai (21 May 2012)

BlairandAzria said:



			Ooops sorry ....maybe I should qualify....my granny drives a Nissan micra (to and from tescos once a week and too and from the bingo once a week, like clockwork), sorry no offence intended to any Nissan drivers!
		
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I'm not offended, I have micra attitude  I actually think it's an old man car.... but Mr Marvin Bubble taught me to drive and passed my test for me so I'm fond of the ol' rust bucket lol


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## Shantara (21 May 2012)

Had a driving lesson today and I mentioned this thread and the comments made to my instructor. He said he can understand how people would think a lot of hi-viz is silly, but as a driver, if he can see the horses earlier, then that's fine by him!


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## Marydoll (21 May 2012)

horserider said:



			Just wondering if those that feel so strongly and are boycotting the magazine will also be boycotting HHO ? Seems a little incongruous to be still using the forum.

Disclaimer. Yes I do wear hi viz and no, I didn't take offence at the article. Thought it was tongue in cheek remark with enough element of truth to be amusing. 

Perhaps the article has actually promoted hi viz judging by the number of posters rushing out to buy extra items.
Perhaps HH should have a pat on the back.
		
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Nope i'll still use the forum,and will reconsider stance on their products if they actually aknowledge my emails, i understand theres 2 sides to a disagreement, but to ignore this level of protest in such a dismissive way is wrong


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## Marydoll (21 May 2012)

BlairandAzria said:



			Ooops sorry ....maybe I should qualify....my granny drives a Nissan micra (to and from tescos once a week and too and from the bingo once a week, like clockwork), sorry no offence intended to any Nissan drivers!
		
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Ha ha, im a granny and a nissan driver, but its a navarra  and id never be at the bingo, more likely the feedstore or stables


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## Ceris Comet (21 May 2012)

Has anyone received acknowledgement for their emails to H&H or ipc ?


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## PandorasJar (21 May 2012)

Ceris Comet said:



			Has anyone received acknowledgement for their emails to H&H or ipc ?
		
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No, but BHS were quick to respond to my forwarding of the thread and said they will be writing a reponse to the H&H magazine but that they can't guarantee they will publish it.

Pan


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## Ceris Comet (21 May 2012)

That's some good news pan .


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## fburton (21 May 2012)

Hurrah for the BHS! They really are on the ball, aren't they?


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## 'S'teamed (21 May 2012)

Dizzle said:



			Even if you are hacking on a private estate off road you should still be in high viz, if you were to fall it's the only way the air ambulance would see you.
		
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Not True...unless you were dead.

Air Ambulances are fitted with Thermal Imaging Equipment


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## lillith (21 May 2012)

For those earlier in the thread who's horses do not wear boots I used to use velcro'ed fluorescent/reflective strips just wrapped round the legs. About 3 inches wide, 1 inch top and bottom bright yellow with a reflective strip in between. My cob wore them around just below the knee cos her feathers would not allow them to sit lower and the finer boned connieX wore them around the bottom of the cannon/top of the fetlock at the widest point, they sat nicely on both. You don't need boots for reflective strips to work .


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## Ceris Comet (21 May 2012)

It would still be a lot quicker to spot a big patch of yellow/pink on the ground .


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## LaurenBay (21 May 2012)

My Horse doesn't choose to go on the roads. I choose to take her on the roads. So the least I can do is make sure she is as safe as she can be. I'm the only one who wears hi-vis on my yard. My YO's sharer often has a little joke about being so paranoid. My reply is always the same "Better to look like this, then mine and Ruby's remains on the road" 

I wear a tabbard and my Horse has legbands on all 4 legs. I am looking for a sheet too. After reading this thread I think I will also invest in a hat band for me too. 

I would never forgive myself if ever Ruby was hit by a car and she wasn't wearing any hi-vis. I would have to spend the rest of my life thinking "what if she was wearing some" 

H+H should be ashamed.

I actually think that the riders who don't wear any hi-vis are the nervous nellies  not so much as to riding. But in general. They would rather be splattered by a car then risk looking a little "silly", Now that's sad!


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## Rowreach (21 May 2012)

'S'teamed said:



			Not True...unless you were dead.

Air Ambulances are fitted with Thermal Imaging Equipment
		
Click to expand...

I distinctly remember a report in H&H mag, not that long ago, about a woman who had a fall whilst riding in a field of longish grass, and it was a long time before she was found because she wasn't wearing hiviz and the heli crew could not see her.

And H&H advocated wearing hiviz even when riding off road 

Though perhaps they've forgotten that bit ...


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## LaurenBay (21 May 2012)

Ohh and your Horse doesn't need to wear boots to wear leg wraps. I got these of Ebay new for £1 each. 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 I know she has boots on here, but she doesn't always.


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## quirky (21 May 2012)

Ceris Comet said:



			If trying to keep this issue in the forefront of peoples minds and want to saves lives is talking c**p then I guess I'll just carry on .
		
Click to expand...

You are either deliberately obtuse, or you read what is written, it is then processed by your brain and comes out completely scrambled .

I never stated that hi viz shouldn't be worn. I myself wear a tabbard (I repeated this more than once ), I was suitably mocked by yourself, as were others who took the same stance.

PN posts and you thank him for his good advice.

Why is advice from PN good, whilst the same from me and others was mocked some 12 pages back?


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## Rowreach (21 May 2012)

PN never mentioned tabards, he advocated wearing long sleeved hiviz so drivers can see your arm signals, which is good advice.  For R&RS we recommend hi viz and light coloured sleeves or hiviz with long sleeves and white or hiviz gloves.  If someone is riding along in a hiviz tabard with dark sleeves and dark gloves, it is perfectly possible that although the rider may be seen, the signal giving the intention of the rider may not be.


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## Ceris Comet (21 May 2012)

I'm not going to rise to the bait. This issue is far to serious to drag into the playground. 
My motive for keeping this thread alive it so that as many people as possible see it and think twice before taking H&H advice and so putting themselves at risk. I have two teenagers who are hard enough to get to wear hi-viz as it is.


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## true dragon (21 May 2012)

Nah said:



			Here's a little taster 






Click to expand...

cant wait to see the coloured finished piece! hows it coming along?


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## Ceris Comet (21 May 2012)

Fabulous !!!!


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## Shantara (21 May 2012)

true dragon said:



			cant wait to see the coloured finished piece! hows it coming along?
		
Click to expand...

Just about to hop on my photoshop PC now  Hopefully by the end of the evening!


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## Feathered (21 May 2012)

Nah said:



			Just about to hop on my photoshop PC now  Hopefully by the end of the evening!
		
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Looking forward to it!


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## MrsHutt (21 May 2012)

Nah said:



			Here's a little taster 






Click to expand...

BRILLIANT!! 

You are SOOOOO clever! x


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## lannerch (21 May 2012)

Cc I too suspect your notices Arn't as genuine as you would have us believe as quite frankly I have found some of your replays verging in rude and I too have had to struggle not to take the bait.
But don't worry horse and hound too are advising you wear a hiviz tabbard probably a long sleeve one at that so at least when and if we fall off all of us taking horse and hounds  advice at least will be found promptly by the hellicoptor.
Off course horse and hound are also recommended your horse does not need feeding , you are not to rug just to keep clean, ( I do ) we are cruel if we do not excercise daily ( ie ride ) if we work full time we are cruel, the pessoa with most of us is dangerous , double bridles cruel, any other than a traditional cob is posing! Pts by injection is indecent etc etc I'm sure you will agree all serious and sound advice!


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## lannerch (21 May 2012)

Notice should read motives b###dy iPhone!


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## Ceris Comet (21 May 2012)

I certainly don't agree with it.


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## Queenbee (21 May 2012)

To those of you who just wear tabards, I applaud you for being responsible enough to take care of your own safety but would ask  the question, why is your horse  not worth protecting??!! If you can provide me with an absolute fail safe argument for not putting hi viz on your horse, I will eat my hat... My spare riding one at that!!!


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## lannerch (21 May 2012)

Lol I think your safe there queen bee  I accept in an ideal world I should put hiviz on my horse however I still do not see the necessity to deck him out like a crimby tree but each to their own


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## Shantara (21 May 2012)

Finished!!! Which do we prefer? 

I personally prefer the dark one.












(And yes, I did colour the horse like Ned!!)


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## PucciNPoni (21 May 2012)

I like the dark one because aesthetically is more pleasing - however I prefer the daylight one because it drives home the point that it's not just for night time use!


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## Ceris Comet (21 May 2012)

Wooooow ! 
Most def the dark one . You clever thing !!!


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## Feathered (21 May 2012)

They are fab!! 

I think I like the dark one best too, brings out the hi vizness!


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## ebonyallen (21 May 2012)

Nah, is there no end to your talents, I like the dark one too x


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## justforfun (21 May 2012)

Cloball said:



			I discovered neon hi viz hoodys the other day 

Click to expand...

Brilliant


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## true dragon (21 May 2012)

love them both tbh!!! well done!!!!


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## Rowreach (21 May 2012)

I prefer the light one because I worry the other will give the message that it's okay to ride in the dark   The other puts across the point that hiviz is needed in the daylight.

Please could Bertie have light coloured sleeves and gloves please thank you?


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## Crazy_cat_lady (21 May 2012)

Thats very good 

I like the dark one as it is very striking but may poss give out message that you only need high vis when dark (when you shouldnt be riding out?)

You could possibly do the background half and half?

Also not sure if it was be too hard/ too much work- but he could have thought bubble with him without hi vis where he blends into the background with a big red cross through it, showing the difference?

Think you should send it to them @ Horse and Hound!

Would be an ideal thing to put up at riding schools etc.


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## joeanne (21 May 2012)

Brilliant!!!


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## Bikerchickone (21 May 2012)

They're fantastic! You're so talented. I love both of them. The dark one is more striking however I think reinforcing the idea that hi viz is for daylight too is very important. Definitely email them to horse and hound, but I'd also suggest you mark them as your property too.  x


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## piebaldsparkle (21 May 2012)

Nah said:








Click to expand...

This one, but agree HiViz gloves would finish it off.


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## The Fuzzy Furry (21 May 2012)

Can you do one with orange as the main theme? 
Only asking, as its the 1 colour that really does show up at any time of the year & in all situations  (Sunny days, fields of rape, frosty days, gloomy afternoons etc)

Cheers


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## Shantara (21 May 2012)

Ok, I think this one is my favourite  
Totally right about the gloves. Really tops it off!


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## Marydoll (21 May 2012)

lannerch said:



			Lol I think your safe there queen bee  I accept in an ideal world I should put hiviz on my horse however I still do not see the necessity to deck him out like a crimby tree but each to their own 

Click to expand...

Aw but why not, its so festive all year round


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## Booboos (21 May 2012)

Fantastic, I love it! Also prefer the lighter one as the dark one may make some people think they don't need hi-viz because they don't intend to ride in the dark.


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## Feathered (21 May 2012)

Also think you should send it to the BHS, would be an excellent poster for a hi viz ad campaign


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## Rowreach (21 May 2012)

Nah said:



			Ok, I think this one is my favourite  
Totally right about the gloves. Really tops it off!






Click to expand...

Yup love the comparison one!


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## Shysmum (21 May 2012)

FAN- BLOODY- TASTIC !!!!


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## Ceris Comet (21 May 2012)

That's the one !
Copyright it quick !


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## Crazy_cat_lady (21 May 2012)

Nah said:



			Ok, I think this one is my favourite  
Totally right about the gloves. Really tops it off!






Click to expand...

Wow love the comparison one- I suggested poss doing something like that earlier and this really shows the difference!

Think it would be brilliant at somewhere like riding schools and you should deff send it to Horse and Hound. Think it could be used in advert also.


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## Hexx (21 May 2012)

I read the article in full today, and like some people on here, thought the whole article was patronising and rather insulting.

I too am now going to be ordering some legwraps and something to go on the bridle as at the moment i tend to wear the hi-viz unless it's wet/very cold when the boy gets his hi-viz quarter sheet on.  However, I always have a hi-viz cover on my hat, and when hacking on roads will ride in my "Polite" tabard, and I also have a hi-viz fleece that is lovely and warm and very bright!!  In fact yesterday I had the fleece and the tabard on together - megga bling!! 

I do a lot of off-road hacking in Windsor Great Park - but don't wear hi-viz out there in the summer - but i think I will start.  You never know, I may meet Lucy Higginson in the Park as she keeps her horse near me - maybe I should shout "Hello, I'm a Bertie Bassett" and see what she says!!!

On my yard, there's not many that ride out in hi-viz - if they are riding with me, I always ask if they would like to borrow my spare tabard, but most of them decline with either the comment of "my horse is grey/coloured so people can see me" or "I think I'll be OK cos I'm with you and you stand out"!!  Not exactly the response I want, but I always ride on the outside, so at least they are somewhat "protected".


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## BlairandAzria (21 May 2012)

WOW!! Nah! They are fantastic!! I prefer the daylight one- really drives home that you should wear hi-vix even when it's bright and sunny!


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## BlairandAzria (21 May 2012)

Only just seen the comparison one- it's PERFECT!!  Wow you are so talented, defo send it in to the Bhs!


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## Bikerchickone (21 May 2012)

These are superb. You really should copyright them quickly!


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## Shantara (21 May 2012)

I'm not sure I can copyright, since it's got Bertie on it. Though, anyone is free to share it   I don't mind!


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## true dragon (21 May 2012)

there has been a road traffic accident tonight in a local village (waterhayes village) with 3 teenagers on horse back and a car with trailer the horse had to be shot at the side of the road.

im trying to find out if they were wearing hi viz

although ive just been shot down for asking, by someone who didnt know the girl or the horse in question.... go figure


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## Shysmum (21 May 2012)

OMG that's terrible .   Let us know what you find out - it could so easily have been the kids I saw out last night. 

_The fact is that if the horse had to be shot, it was still alive after impact, and most probably would have been in incredible pain,  terrified and suffering. That is the reality. Fact. _


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## Parker79 (21 May 2012)

NAH - wow they are amazing! the comparison one is the best IMO.

For those who keep referring to a christmas tree...maybe you could add some baubles!

I love the fact this thread has kept going - I haven't read the article but from the short quotes that people have kindly posted. I would certainly agree with the majority of people on here.


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## Shantara (21 May 2012)

Oh how awful :'( That's my worst nightmare. If I ever get hit, I want it to be instant or not serious. I don't want to have to get someone to shoot him while he's lying in pain.

Those poor poor people and horses.


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## true dragon (21 May 2012)

shysmum said:



			OMG that's terrible .   Let us know what you find out - it could so easily have been the kids I saw out last night. 

_The fact is that if the horse had to be shot, it was still alive after impact, and most probably would have been in incredible pain,  terrified and suffering. That is the reality. Fact. _

Click to expand...




Nah said:



			Oh how awful :'( That's my worst nightmare. If I ever get hit, I want it to be instant or not serious. I don't want to have to get someone to shoot him while he's lying in pain.

Those poor poor people and horses.
		
Click to expand...

apparently there is some debate as to whether the car was being driven too fast and hit the horse.... or the horse spooked in front of the trailer.. 

other people riding out at that time said they saw a large car pulling an empty rattly trailer and it was being driven at speed.

as soon as i know if the teens were wearing hi viz i will post it up.

i was 1st on the scene at a road traffic accident with a horse (with no hi viz on as it escaped from a field) when i lived in Scotland.  it was terrible.  the chest had been ripped open, the front leg was broken back on itself and the lower jaw bone was hanging off.  i kept its head on the floor with my knees as i stroked its neck and tried to stop it from standing up.  it took about 15 mins to die. the vet didnt get there in time to put it out of its misery i will never forget it. so i know 1st hand how important it is to be seen.


*EDIT* ive just heard that the horses hind leg was nearly torn off in the accident, so i assume excessive speed has played a big part in this


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## Shantara (21 May 2012)

Oh, True Dragon, that's so upsetting  I don't think I could deal with that. I get horrifically upset just by seeing a dead frog or whatever on the road. Sounds like you were extremely brave and did just the right thing.

A rattly trailer was what spooked Ned and made him fall on the road and dump me, thankfully we were both ok, just a bit sore. It's also what nearly killed a horse and rider near me (saw that, plenty of blood, but nothing too terrible). 
He's normally fine with them, but it 'jumped out at him', scared the living daylights out of the poor creature.


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## Ceris Comet (21 May 2012)

Oh no , no no no 
Thoughts with the family involved  x


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## true dragon (21 May 2012)

Nah said:



			Oh, True Dragon, that's so upsetting  I don't think I could deal with that. I get horrifically upset just by seeing a dead frog or whatever on the road. Sounds like you were extremely brave and did just the right thing.

A rattly trailer was what spooked Ned and made him fall on the road and dump me, thankfully we were both ok, just a bit sore. It's also what nearly killed a horse and rider near me (saw that, plenty of blood, but nothing too terrible). 
He's normally fine with them, but it 'jumped out at him', scared the living daylights out of the poor creature.
		
Click to expand...

one went past me on sunday too... i though OMG!!!! but my cob didnt bat an eyelid thank god! it was speeding though, and didnt slow down for us at all... thank goodness my boy is quite bombproof!


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## piebaldsparkle (21 May 2012)

Nah said:








Click to expand...


Love, Love, Love


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## true dragon (21 May 2012)

Nah said:



			Ok, I think this one is my favourite  
Totally right about the gloves. Really tops it off!






Click to expand...

yes nah! quite superb! BRAVO!!!!!


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## true dragon (21 May 2012)

nah, ive posted that pic you made on my facebook page


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## Shantara (21 May 2012)

true dragon said:



			nah, ive posted that pic you made on my facebook page 

Click to expand...

Fantastic  
Thanks everyone! I'm so glad you like it


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## Ladydragon (21 May 2012)

true dragon said:



			there has been a road traffic accident tonight in a local village (waterhayes village) with 3 teenagers on horse back and a car with trailer the horse had to be shot at the side of the road.
		
Click to expand...

Awful for everyone involved...  

Were any of the kids injured do you know True Dragon?


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## Tinypony (21 May 2012)

That is brilliant Nah, you are really talented!

I don't want to put a damper on things, do you need to check about copyright on the Bertie Bassett?  Or would that only be needed if it were to be used in publicity?  Mind you "High Viz for Horses - sponsored by Bassett's" has a bit of a ring to it.


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## true dragon (21 May 2012)

true dragon said:



			there has been a road traffic accident tonight in a local village (waterhayes village) with 3 teenagers on horse back and a car with trailer the horse had to be shot at the side of the road.

im trying to find out if they were wearing hi viz
		
Click to expand...




true dragon said:



			apparently there is some debate as to whether the car was being driven too fast and hit the horse.... or the horse spooked in front of the trailer.. 

other people riding out at that time said they saw a large car pulling an empty rattly trailer and it was being driven at speed.

as soon as i know if the teens were wearing hi viz i will post it up.


*EDIT* ive just heard that the horses hind leg was nearly torn off in the accident, so i assume excessive speed has played a big part in this
		
Click to expand...

TERRIBLE NEWS IM AFRAID.  THE GIRLS WERE NOT WEARING HI VIZ.  MY THOUGHTS AND PRAYERS GO OUT TO ALL INVOLVED THIS RTA THIS EVENING.

RIP MAGNIFICENT ANIMAL


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## true dragon (21 May 2012)

Ladydragon said:



			Awful for everyone involved...  

Were any of the kids injured do you know True Dragon?
		
Click to expand...

NO ONE LARGE MERCY, THE KIDS ARE ALL FINE... ALTHOUGH NO DOUBT IN DEEP DEEP SHOCK THIS EVENING.


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## Shantara (21 May 2012)

Tinypony - Yea, I think it's only against the law if I claim he's my creation or get money from it. I do a lot of fan art  (Not usually of a man made out of sweets!)

True Dragon - Oh goodness :'( the poor thing! I hope it didn't have to suffer for long.


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## Ceris Comet (21 May 2012)

RIP Horse /Pony xxx
Enough said .


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## true dragon (21 May 2012)

Ceris Comet said:



			RIP Horse /Pony xxx
Enough said .
		
Click to expand...

exactly! its so upsetting.


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## piebaldsparkle (21 May 2012)

Tinypony said:



			Mind you "High Viz for Horses - sponsored by Bassett's" has a bit of a ring to it.
		
Click to expand...


Quite - 'ALLSORTs' ride after all


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## Crazy_cat_lady (21 May 2012)

@ Piebald Sparkle- brilliant!! Can't quote as on phone.


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## piebaldsparkle (21 May 2012)

Couldn't resist putting it on HHo members FB page too

http://www.facebook.com/groups/1501...12615283&set=o.150175695018457&type=1&theater


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## Ceris Comet (21 May 2012)

Devestated....youngsters and no hi-viz..hope you're proud of yourselves hh...


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## Shantara (21 May 2012)

piebaldsparkle said:



			Couldn't resist putting it on HHo members FB page too

http://www.facebook.com/groups/1501...12615283&set=o.150175695018457&type=1&theater

Click to expand...

 yay!!


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## true dragon (21 May 2012)

Ceris Comet said:



			Devestated....youngsters and no hi-viz..hope you're proud of yourselves hh...
		
Click to expand...

i just hope for H&H's sake the teens didnt read the article in this weeks mag and decide against wearing any hi viz for fear of being ridiculed..


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## Ceris Comet (21 May 2012)

Please read previous page post about youngsters out with no hi-vis and accident that ripped horses leg off nearly x


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## piebaldsparkle (21 May 2012)

Ceris Comet said:



			Devestated....youngsters and no hi-viz..hope you're proud of yourselves hh...
		
Click to expand...

I think that is a little OTT.  I agree the comment and further response when poorly thoughtout and down right irresponsible, but I don't think they can then be responsible for an accident (where you have no idea if the riders read the article or where influenced by it).  I feel sorry for all involved they have just learned a very hard lesson and RIP horse/pony.


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## Crazy_cat_lady (22 May 2012)

Horrific sounding accident poor horse & people- were the other horses ok?

I hate those trailers and loan horse is scared of them as they rattle and bounce up and down.


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## Ceris Comet (22 May 2012)

Unfortunately, the accident proves the whole point of this thread.
Hi-viz saves lives .
Thoughts are with the poor ponies owners


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## true dragon (22 May 2012)

me&Harvey said:



			Horrific sounding accident poor horse & people- were the other horses ok?

I hate those trailers and loan horse is scared of them as they rattle and bounce up and down.
		
Click to expand...

yes, apparently so. just the one horse that was killed.


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## Marydoll (22 May 2012)

shysmum said:



			OMG that's terrible .   Let us know what you find out - it could so easily have been the kids I saw out last night. 

_The fact is that if the horse had to be shot, it was still alive after impact, and most probably would have been in incredible pain,  terrified and suffering. That is the reality. Fact. _

Click to expand...

Id prefer to think it was in complete shock if so badly injured and hopefully unaware of what was happening


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## Marydoll (22 May 2012)

This is an horrific accident, these poor kids will be distraught their horse being killed in such horrendous circumstances, my thoughts are with them and their familys and the owner of the horse, so sad


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## AprilBlossom (22 May 2012)

CC your statement that this accident proves hi viz saves lives is absurd. How can you possibly tell if the wearing of a hi viz jacket would have had any bearing whatsoever on the outcome of a terrible accident?!

It's an awful shame the accident happened but you guys harping on immediately about it beig because of a lack of hi viz and even questioning it at the scene (shame on you) are exactly the reason H&H had reason to suggest some people get a little OTT and sanctimonious regarding hi viz. 

You're coming across like hi viz terrorist extremists!!  

NB not a blanket labelling there to all recent posts but I imagine you know who you are if reading this...and will prob jump down my throat shortly...


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## Ladydragon (22 May 2012)

true dragon said:



			NO ONE LARGE MERCY, THE KIDS ARE ALL FINE... ALTHOUGH NO DOUBT IN DEEP DEEP SHOCK THIS EVENING.
		
Click to expand...

Their young worlds have certainly changed very quickly...  Thank goodness they are uninjured although I would imagine they'll find the events traumatic and shocking for a good while... 

Not sure if I've missed it, but did the driver remain at the scene?



Ceris Comet said:



			Devestated....youngsters and no hi-viz..hope you're proud of yourselves hh...
		
Click to expand...

In all fairness...there's nothing to suggest that the youngsters' choice was influenced by H&H or that the use of hi viz would would have prevented this accident...  Hopefully H&H will take such tragic circumstances into account though and become a tad more proactive in support of the wearing of hi viz...


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## ribbons (22 May 2012)

My god, this thread is verging on hysteria. To say you hope H&H is proud of itself is utterly ridiculous. 
A very tragic accident has happened, and that is awful, but H&H did not at any point suggest riding without Hi Viz was a good idea. There is s ridiculous frenzy being whipped up here. A terribly sad accident and some people are having a ball with it. Disgusting attitudes wrapped loosely in concern. Sorry but this whole thing is beginning to stink suspiciously to me.


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## Ceris Comet (22 May 2012)

Thoughts are with the families tonight .


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## quirky (22 May 2012)

How on earth anybody can say having hi viz on would have prevented this accident is beyond me!
My thoughts are with all concerned at what must be a very upsetting time


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## Black_Horse_White (22 May 2012)

Hi vis wouldn't have made a difference in this instance as the driver had seen the horse and was passing them, when the horse spooked and was hit by the trailer. But hi vis should be worn always when out on the roads IMO.


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## Chellebean (22 May 2012)

Nah said:



			Ok, I think this one is my favourite  
Totally right about the gloves. Really tops it off!






Click to expand...

Haha I love it


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## Booboos (22 May 2012)

RIP little horse. So glad the kids were OK but it must have been a horrific experience for them.


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## lannerch (22 May 2012)

So sad, but i to cannot ser how you can blame it on lack of hiviz ( and remember h&h do recommend even in that article that recommends you so not feed ) Sounds to me like it was the creaky trailer the horse spooked at not the fact the driver could not see them, unfortunately even when they do see you a lot of people are ignorant the horse is an animal and treat it like they do bike and do not slow down.
I hate riding on the roads for that reason, you are never safe.
Rip poor horsey


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## Tinypony (22 May 2012)

Ceris Comet said:



			Unfortunately, the accident proves the whole point of this thread.
Hi-viz saves lives .
Thoughts are with the poor ponies owners
		
Click to expand...

No it doesn't.  None of us know exactly what caused the accident and personally I think your comments are insensitive.  I know you're on a mission, but did you have to drag this good natured thread down in this way?  I hope those involved never read it, whether or not lack of high viz was a contributing factor I'm sure lessons were learned.  They will never forget what happened that day.


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## Ceris Comet (22 May 2012)

Apologies for what was a heat of the moment comment.
RIP little horsey


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## Ranyhyn (22 May 2012)

I agree, overkill a little bit now CC.  Might be time to step away from the thread.

Huge condolences to those poor kids.


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## alliersv1 (22 May 2012)

Very sad for the horse and children involved in the tragic accident. 
Does highlight how vulnerable we are on the roads.

On a positive note, Nah, Those pictures are absolutely fantastic! Good on ya!


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## Tinypony (22 May 2012)

CC, I really respect you for that apology.  I can understand your passion for this, it's an important issue.


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## Black_Horse_White (22 May 2012)

We hack out it that area on an almost daily basis and do always wear hi vis. It doesn't make one iota of difference, it's not passing wide and slow that's the problem. When will drivers get the message!


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## true dragon (22 May 2012)

Black_Horse_White said:



			Hi vis wouldn't have made a difference in this instance as the driver had seen the horse and was passing them, when the horse spooked and was hit by the trailer. But hi vis should be worn always when out on the roads IMO.
		
Click to expand...

ive also heard that the vehicle was being driven at excessive speeds, the trailer was empty and banging around.... although at the moment its just all bits of conflicting info ive picked up from FB so can be 100% sure of the details

just shows we need more bridleways in the Audley/newcastle under lyme area !!!!


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## true dragon (22 May 2012)

Black_Horse_White said:



			We hack out it that area on an almost daily basis and do always wear hi vis. It doesn't make one iota of difference, it's not passing wide and slow that's the problem. When will drivers get the message!
		
Click to expand...

i hack in the area too on a daily basis and i have to say that i get more respect from drivers when i wear hi viz.  they really do seem to slow down more.  although you still do get the odd d!ck head who speeds past you no matter what your wearing.  unfortunately these girls seem to have come across such a man.


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## Black_Horse_White (22 May 2012)

I agree, Parklane is the worst lots of blind bends and a 60mph limit, ridiculous I've had 2 of my worse near misses riding down there. I heard that the horse is on loan which is terrible for all concerned. The driver apparently is a local well liked man so maybe it was just an unfortunate accident :-(


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## Amymay (22 May 2012)

Deleted


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## Ceris Comet (22 May 2012)

Amymay....see my apology on p74.
I have admitted I was wrong


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## Amymay (22 May 2012)

Ceris Comet said:



			Amymay....see my apology on p74.
I have admitted I was wrong
		
Click to expand...

Just seen it, and I've deleted my post.


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## Ceris Comet (22 May 2012)

Thanks x


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## Jesstickle (22 May 2012)

Nah said:



			Ok, I think this one is my favourite  
Totally right about the gloves. Really tops it off!






Click to expand...

Awesome  You are clever


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## MerrySherryRider (22 May 2012)

I was very distressed by the comments last night having been driving down that road at the time of the accident. This is a public forum, stop and think before you post. It's not the time to score points for this topic, quite frankly Hi viz wouldn't have made a difference. The real issue in the area is the lack of bridlepaths and the speed of traffic. 

Having recently moved to a near by village, I scoured the area for decent livery near bridlepaths. There is none. Riders in the Newcastle Under Lyme and Cheshire border ride on roads daily, that in 45 years of riding I would never have previously put a hoof on.
  The choice is riding on A roads or winding narrow country lanes or nothing at all. There is not one single bridlepath within a 5+ mile radius of my yard.


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## Flame_ (22 May 2012)

Nah, those pictures are brilliant!

As said earlier, you won't get in trouble for using BB will you? He will have some sort of copyright issues to be careful of.


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## Tinypony (22 May 2012)

horserider said:



			I was very distressed by the comments last night having been driving down that road at the time of the accident. This is a public forum, stop and think before you post. It's not the time to score points for this topic, quite frankly Hi viz wouldn't have made a difference. The real issue in the area is the lack of bridlepaths and the speed of traffic. 

Having recently moved to a near by village, I scoured the area for decent livery near bridlepaths. There is none. Riders in the Newcastle Under Lyme and Cheshire border ride on roads daily, that in 45 years of riding I would never have previously put a hoof on.
  The choice is riding on A roads or winding narrow country lanes or nothing at all. There is not one single bridlepath within a 5+ mile radius of my yard.
		
Click to expand...

Plesae read the thread, there has been an apology.


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## MerrySherryRider (22 May 2012)

Tinypony said:



			Plesae read the thread, there has been an apology.
		
Click to expand...

Yep, I can read. As can anyone else as the posts from last night are not deleted.


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## Black_Horse_White (22 May 2012)

There is Bateswood bridlepath but local people and dog walkers are always complaining about a horse riders because a small minority keep going off the path, therefore spoiling it for the rest.


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## Bikerchickone (22 May 2012)

We all say things we shouldn't in tim heat of the moment, especially when caught up in a good cause. An apology has been made and I would think it's probably too late now to edit the comments from last night. 

A very sad and tragic accident. Rip poor horse. :'( x


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## true dragon (22 May 2012)

horserider said:



			I was very distressed by the comments last night having been driving down that road at the time of the accident. This is a public forum, stop and think before you post. It's not the time to score points for this topic, quite frankly Hi viz wouldn't have made a difference. The real issue in the area is the lack of bridlepaths and the speed of traffic. 

Having recently moved to a near by village, I scoured the area for decent livery near bridlepaths. There is none. Riders in the Newcastle Under Lyme and Cheshire border ride on roads daily, that in 45 years of riding I would never have previously put a hoof on.
  The choice is riding on A roads or winding narrow country lanes or nothing at all. There is not one single bridlepath within a 5+ mile radius of my yard.
		
Click to expand...

im sorry if my comment on the matter offended anyone too.  

i made the post not to score points but to raise the issue that it is vital to be seen on the roads.  its a tragedy, but i have my right to voice an opinion on this emotive subject.  i want to make it clear, i was not condemning and have not condemned her, my thoughts and condolences go out to all the people concerned.

the fact that if hi viz was worn or not will never truly be known.  yes the horse spooked to the side. but would the driver had more time to slow down if the girls had been more visible? was speed an issue in this? if so, would he have slowed right down had he have seen them earlier. unfortunately we will know only when the report is released.....

 and everyone commenting, including both me and you, is doing so on just ones speculation.  im local and ride these roads almost daily. so it was pertinent to the thread in my opinion. 

I for one would much rather give the driver that extra 3 seconds! and the fact that most insurance companies are now looking into whether the rider was wearing hi viz or not a factor as to whether they pay out.

like i have said before, ive been on the business end of a horse involved in a RTA.  i had to kneel on the horses head to stop her from trying to get up.  her chest cavity was ripped open, her jaw had been ripped off and her leg was broken totally in half at the cannon bone.  i comforted that horse for 15 mins before she finally passed away.  it was one of the worst days of my life and she was in terrible pain. the horse was not in any hi viz as it had escaped from a field. which no one can help

once more, my apologies for any distress i have caused to parties involved.


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## Amymay (22 May 2012)

Do you know the road on which the accident happened true dragon?


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## true dragon (22 May 2012)

Black_Horse_White said:



			There is Bateswood bridlepath but local people and dog walkers are always complaining about a horse riders because a small minority keep going off the path, therefore spoiling it for the rest.
		
Click to expand...

tell me about it! sometimes we are a threat to ourselves! 

keeping fingers crossed that they do open the circular route to us.... as of yet ive not heard anything.


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## true dragon (22 May 2012)

amymay said:



			Do you know the road on which the accident happened true dragon?
		
Click to expand...

people on FB are saying that it happened on audley road close to the turning for woodlane.


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## Amymay (22 May 2012)

true dragon said:



			people on FB are saying that it happened on audley road close to the turning for woodlane.
		
Click to expand...

Sorry, I meant do you yourself know the road, is it one you drive or ride down?


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## true dragon (22 May 2012)

amymay said:



			Sorry, I meant do you yourself know the road, is it one you drive or ride down?
		
Click to expand...

yes, ive ridden down it many times, especially when i was younger and we had access to a place called apedale woods from that road. but apedale has been closed off from there and we have been refused access to it from that end of the villages, so riders are forced to ride on the roads.

i sometimes drive the road too.  its fast, even though the hill is supposed to be a 30MPH zone.... not many people keep to the speed.


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## armchair_rider (22 May 2012)

Love the pictures Nah. Do Bassetts make the fruit salad chew sweets? If so - better to look like a fruit salad than be a vegetable.

Going back to the article, it seems to me that part of the problem is that it's really three articles in one (and I think that people's reactions to it varies according to what type of article they perceived it to be):

A- Article on horsemanship and in particular modern horsemanship problems - what are all these rugs/gadgets for and do I need them, are modern ffeds better than traditional, how do I improve my horse's performance

B- Article on human/horse relationships - do people let their horses be horses, how can people improve their relationships with their horses, is it 'fair' to keep horses under certain conditions

C- Humour

Hacking and road safety would certainly be a reasonable part of article A and probably article B; and I doubt a serious article on either would have advised wearing little or no hi-vis. The Bertie Bassett jibe might be a reasonable part of article C - something along the lines of the stable stereotypes series. Ok it would have upset some people but it wouldn't have been taken seriously.

All that said the impact actually seems to have been generally positive if it gets people thinking/talking about horse safety on roads. Paradoxically it also looks like increasing hi-vis use judging by the number of people on here who've bought more of the stuff


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## milo'n'molly (22 May 2012)

Waiting to see if any mention in h&h on thurs


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## Queenbee (22 May 2012)

Thoughts go out to the 3 girls and the poor horse  whilst in this case hi viz may not have prevented the accident, I would hate to be not wearing hi viz and be left in the aftermath thinking 'what if' 

Armchair rider: I fail to believe that the whole point of the crass patronising snobbish and totally irresponsible statement was to incite a debate and encourage the use of basic safety attire. If the intention was this the section on hi viz should have been written entirely differently. I am appauled that h&h have behaved this way, I sincerely hope that they realise the seriousness and potential impact of their article.  It is positive that on here it has sparked debate and resulted in people buying more hi viz and assesing their safety for the better, but this is an unforeseen byproduct of the article, the opposite could have happened and in light of the article would have been more likely.


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## lyndsayberesford (22 May 2012)

i know the owner of the horse very well, she was not a child herself, she is mid 20's now. none of the riders were hurt as far as i am aware

she told me that the pick up truck with a rattling garden trailer on the back was going too fast and it struck the hind leg of the mare and sliced it open.

The mare had to be PTS at the roadside 

RIP Ruby


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## touchstone (22 May 2012)

Queenbee said:



			Thoughts go out to the 3 girls and the poor horse  whilst in this case hi viz may not have prevented the accident, I would hate to be not wearing hi viz and be left in the aftermath thinking 'what if' 

Armchair rider: I fail to believe that the whole point of the crass patronising snobbish and totally irresponsible statement was to incite a debate and encourage the use of basic safety attire. If the intention was this the section on hi viz should have been written entirely differently. I am appauled that h&h have behaved this way, I sincerely hope that they realise the seriousness and potential impact of their article.  It is positive that on here it has sparked debate and resulted in people buying more hi viz and assesing their safety for the better, but this is an unforeseen byproduct of the article, the opposite could have happened and in light of the article would have been more likely.
		
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+1. 
I think people have gone out and bought hi viz from the points raised by forum members, not from the article stating wearing too much hi viz looks stupid.  

It has certainly sparked people's anger and I don't believe for a moment that that was the purpose of the article, it was very bad journalism if that was the case and it should have highlighted their views on safety for readers awareness.


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## armchair_rider (22 May 2012)

Just to be clear, I also do not believe that the article was designed to encourage Hi-vis wearing (and if H&H should come out and say that was the aim I won't believe them).


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## Ceris Comet (22 May 2012)

I'm sure that's the angle they will try to portray .
Something along the lines of " The article was meant to provoke discussion " or some other rubbish


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## Queenbee (22 May 2012)

Exactly cc, but again responsible journalism is lacking, far better ways to write an article and provoke debate, it should have been obvious that it was an inappropriate statement that could do damage


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## Shantara (22 May 2012)

lyndsayberesford said:



			i know the owner of the horse very well, she was not a child herself, she is mid 20's now. none of the riders were hurt as far as i am aware

she told me that the pick up truck with a rattling garden trailer on the back was going too fast and it struck the hind leg of the mare and sliced it open.

The mare had to be PTS at the roadside 

RIP Ruby
		
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I'm glad there's someone that knows the poor people and horses involved. I'm so pleased that none of the people were hurt, but how awful to lose one of the horses in such a way  Send my condolences to your friend.


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## Flame_ (22 May 2012)

lyndsayberesford said:



			i know the owner of the horse very well, she was not a child herself, she is mid 20's now. none of the riders were hurt as far as i am aware

she told me that the pick up truck with a rattling garden trailer on the back was going too fast and it struck the hind leg of the mare and sliced it open.

The mare had to be PTS at the roadside 

RIP Ruby
		
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Glad all the riders were OK Lyndsay.

It was a pick up truck with a rattling load that knackered our driving pony. I just don't know what we can do about getting them to be more careful round horses, they need to pass horses the way tractors do, but hi-viz certainly isn't enough to solve that problem. 

RIP Ruby


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## justforfun (22 May 2012)

RIP Ruby, no-one will ever know if the wearng of hi-viz would have made any difference, but maybe, just maybe your very sad death will make just 1 more horseowner buy hi-viz and help safe a life, albeit horse or human.


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## lannerch (22 May 2012)

Justforfun the accident sadly would have happened with or without hiviz that is no comfort to the poor poor person who has lost her horse.


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## Ceris Comet (22 May 2012)

Poor horsey and the girls involved. It shows how vunerable we all are on the roads hi-viz or no hi-viz .


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## lannerch (22 May 2012)

Now that I agree with cc


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## Ceris Comet (22 May 2012)

Please dont attack me for that post L


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## Ceris Comet (22 May 2012)

There will always be idiots drivers, but if we all wear hi-viz , they will have less escuses to say they havnt seen us


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## Black_Horse_White (22 May 2012)

This driver did see them, just too impatient to wait behind, and overtook at the wrong time.


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## Ceris Comet (22 May 2012)

Ceris Comet said:



			Please dont attack me for that post L 

Click to expand...

I was saying that we are all at risk on the road. However, with hi-viz we can be seen 10 seconds earlier occording to research posted on this forum


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## Ceris Comet (22 May 2012)

Black_Horse_White said:



			This driver did see them, just too impatient to wait behind, and overtook at the wrong time.
		
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Thats shocking . It takes me back to the TvR driver thread . Luckily he was prosecuted.


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## Ladydragon (23 May 2012)

lyndsayberesford said:



			i know the owner of the horse very well, she was not a child herself, she is mid 20's now. none of the riders were hurt as far as i am aware

she told me that the pick up truck with a rattling garden trailer on the back was going too fast and it struck the hind leg of the mare and sliced it open.

The mare had to be PTS at the roadside 

RIP Ruby
		
Click to expand...

Awful situation for them all...  Thanks for the update Lyndsay, I had wondered if anyone might have personal contact with those involved - it can't be an easy time for them at the moment...

Do you know if the police are undertaking an investigation if his speed/judgement is in dispute?


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## lannerch (23 May 2012)

I hope they throw the book at the driver and more!
Sadly I expect they wont


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## Amymay (23 May 2012)

lannerch said:



			Justforfun the accident sadly would have happened with or without hiviz that is no comfort to the poor poor person who has lost her horse.
		
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Exactly.


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## mtj (23 May 2012)

Condolences to all concerned.

Can only hope that this dreadful incident results in some off road tracks for the local riders.


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## true dragon (23 May 2012)

hey NAH, ive seen your bertie bassett hi viz picture loads on my FB news feed today! well done you! your design seems to be appealing to the masses out there


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## sodapop (23 May 2012)

I just wanted to say that I was involved in a road traffic incident that ended up with my horse being PTS at the scene, a broken knee for me and it would seem a life time of fear for anything with 4 wheels and a person behind the wheel! I had my high viz on and my fjord pony I think was quite noticeable. I only ride on farm land now but never without my hi viz. The roads are very dangerous with or without hi viz. I say always wear hi viz but please dont forget there is always a potential idiot about to drive down the road or round the bend. Some drivers dont care if they can see you or not they are just incompetent.
If the worst happens you dont want to be told you arent insured because you didnt have any Hi-viz on.


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## PandorasJar (23 May 2012)

Tinypony said:



			That is brilliant Nah, you are really talented!

I don't want to put a damper on things, do you need to check about copyright on the Bertie Bassett?  Or would that only be needed if it were to be used in publicity?  Mind you "High Viz for Horses - sponsored by Bassett's" has a bit of a ring to it.
		
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I think you ought to contact someone about using him... they may well back it as a campaign 

Pan


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## Elbie (23 May 2012)

sodapop said:



			I just wanted to say that I was involved in a road traffic incident that ended up with my horse being PTS at the scene, a broken knee for me and it would seem a life time of fear for anything with 4 wheels and a person behind the wheel! I had my high viz on and my fjord pony I think was quite noticeable. I only ride on farm land now but never without my hi viz. The roads are very dangerous with or without hi viz. I say always wear hi viz but please dont forget there is always a potential idiot about to drive down the road or round the bend. Some drivers dont care if they can see you or not they are just incompetent.
If the worst happens you dont want to be told you arent insured because you didnt have any Hi-viz on.
		
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What a horrible thing to happen to you 

You are right in what you say - Hi-Viz or not, drivers can be idiots. Twice yesterday evening I had people speed past (on my side of the road) as I was waiting to exit the bridleway. One man decided that as he was going to swerve away from where I was it was still ok to drive about 60mph. And only a few months ago some idiot overtook me on the road and decided he could squeeze past before the oncoming car got to him. He was so close to my horse I could've touched the car.


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## OWLIE185 (23 May 2012)

For anyone who has sadly been involved in an accident with a vehicle I would always recommend taking a private civil action against the driver concerned once the police have achieved a conviction or the cps have decided not to prosecute.
Then once you win it get it plastered around the local papers, radio stations and tv so that local motorists are made aware that they should take care when passing horse riders.


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## PandorasJar (23 May 2012)

true dragon said:



			hey NAH, ive seen your bertie bassett hi viz picture loads on my FB news feed today! well done you! your design seems to be appealing to the masses out there 

Click to expand...

Just gone up on my fb too, brilliant work Nah!

In regards to the horse accident, my condolences. Regardless of our personal opinions this isn't a time or place to give the rider more 'what ifs'.

I also didn't bother with hi-viz before (only a couple of reins etc on the horse) and will do now regardless of whether on roads or not. I believe the statistics should stick to overall numbers or older cases, not something so fresh for those involved.

Pan


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## true dragon (23 May 2012)

sodapop said:



			I just wanted to say that I was involved in a road traffic incident that ended up with my horse being PTS at the scene, a broken knee for me and it would seem a life time of fear for anything with 4 wheels and a person behind the wheel! I had my high viz on and my fjord pony I think was quite noticeable. I only ride on farm land now but never without my hi viz. The roads are very dangerous with or without hi viz. I say always wear hi viz but please dont forget there is always a potential idiot about to drive down the road or round the bend. Some drivers dont care if they can see you or not they are just incompetent.
If the worst happens you dont want to be told you arent insured because you didnt have any Hi-viz on.
		
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oh dear, how terrible for you! what a horrible thing to happen.  its every riders worst nightmare, and your so right, sometimes drivers will drive badly even if your fully kitted out in hi viz. accidents will happen no matter what your wearing.  its the very nature of our hobby/sport

 i agree about the insurance statement though, it must be horrible if your involved in a RTA that was not your fault, but the insurance company wont pay out because you were not wearing hi viz.


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## lyndsayberesford (23 May 2012)

I think the police did arrive at the scene. And yes the driver did apparently see them but impatiently overtook! 
If its taught me anything it is to wear hi viz! Been out and bought a new "polite" hi viz today and will vow to wear it on every hack now! 
I hope this person gets prosecuted just for the trauma caused alone!!!!!
So many impatient and inconsiderate drivers


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## Bikerchickone (23 May 2012)

So tragic. I've just seen a report in horsetrader online about the accident. It does sound as though the driver will have to face the consequences, not that it will ever bring back poor Ruby.  x


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## justforfun (23 May 2012)

lannerch said:



			Justforfun the accident sadly would have happened with or without hiviz that is no comfort to the poor poor person who has lost her horse.
		
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I think I may have written that wrong or taken the wrong way, nothing could ever comfort the owner of the horse and all those involved but the point I was trying to make was maybe just 1 person goes out today and gets some hi-viz stuff and that saves a nasty accident{Yes I can see now that hi-viz wouldnt have stopped ths terrible accident}   Sorry If what I typed came across the wrong way.


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## true dragon (23 May 2012)

bikerchickone said:



			So tragic. I've just seen a report in horsetrader online about the accident. It does sound as though the driver will have to face the consequences, not that it will ever bring back poor Ruby.  x
		
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this is the report




			A horse owner is campaigning to raise awareness of horse riders on the road after her horse was killed in a horrific accident.

Nicky Allen, whose family owned the horse, has urged road users to take care near horse riders.

The horse, a seven-year-old mare named Ruby, was struck by a flatbed trailer after a Toyota pick-up truck that was towing it overtook her and her rider.

The incident took place on Monday evening, just before 6.45pm and resulted in the road being closed for two hours. Rubys rider and the other horses that were in the group that Ruby was being ridden with managed to escape unharmed but Ruby was left with severe injuries and had to be put down.

Nicky, who is from Knypersley, said: Every time you go out on the roads, there are at least two other people who put your life in danger.

Some of the worst examples you find are motorists taking their kids to school and in a rush. There needs to be more awareness of horses on the roads. Ruby had been on loan to another experienced rider and had been taken out on roads and bridleways a number of times.

They had just set out to go riding when it happened, said Nicky.

Horses can be unpredictable, but Ruby was so good on the roads.This has knocked me for six. Ive never seen anything like it.

Nicky became aware of the accident after receiving a call from Rubys rider.

Speaking about Rubys injuries, she said: The horse had been severed in half. Ive never seen so much blood. The paramedics had covered the horse with a blanket. Other motorists had also put their jumpers on top of her to try to stop the bleeding. They were absolutely brilliant. 

But Ruby was bleeding to death. A vet was called out and gave her an injection to put her to sleep.

A spokesman for Staffordshire Police said their inquiries on the incident were continuing. Wenslie Naylon, chairman of Newcastle Borough Council's equestrian forum, is backing others that are trying to raise public awareness of the risks that riders and their horses face on the roads.

This tragic accident is absolutely heartbreaking, she said.

It is so important for drivers to give horses a wide berth go past slowly.

A horse has got a mind of its own and can get spooked. Horse riders should also wear hi-visibility vests.

Horse riders are calling for more off-road riding routes and bridleways across the borough so that they can avoid using the roads.

We are also campaigning for quiet off-road areas to be linked up, Wenslie said.

According to estimations by a Newcastle equestrian strategy, there are more than 2,500 adults and 5,000 young people that ride in the borough regularly
		
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http://www.horsetraderonline.co.uk/...ign-for-safer-roads-after-death-of-horse.html


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## Bikerchickone (23 May 2012)

Thank you, I can't copy and paste on my phone.


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## true dragon (23 May 2012)

ive also just read on another forum that the girl riding the horse killed *was* in hi viz after all.


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## Shantara (23 May 2012)

I'm so glad Bertie has begun circulating facebook  

I'll try and find the contact details of his creator and see if they don't mind using his image.


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## Ceris Comet (23 May 2012)

I'm sure BB's mum or dad would not object in the slightest. Just think of all the free publicity for them and the fact that BB could save lives.


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## Shantara (23 May 2012)

How does this sound?

"Hello!
There is a bit of a story behind this post. The equestrian magazing Horse and Hound recently made a comparison between riders who use too much hi-viz and Bertie Bassett. There was a massive uproar as many of the readers believe that there is no such thing as too much.
I drew a picture of Bertie riding a horse, as a jokey retaliation to the article. I'm writing to ask permission to use this image (none profit) to help spread awareness of how important it is to use hi-viz when riding.  http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j308/gothic180/Bertie3copy.jpg
Thank you for any feedback you give me.
Regards,
Emily Leslie"


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## true dragon (23 May 2012)

Nah said:



			How does this sound?

"Hello!
There is a bit of a story behind this post. The equestrian magazing Horse and Hound recently made a comparison between riders who use too much hi-viz and Bertie Bassett. There was a massive uproar as many of the readers believe that there is no such thing as too much.
I drew a picture of Bertie riding a horse, as a jokey retaliation to the article. I'm writing to ask permission to use this image (none profit) to help spread awareness of how important it is to use hi-viz when riding.  http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j308/gothic180/Bertie3copy.jpg
Thank you for any feedback you give me.
Regards,
Emily Leslie"
		
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give a link to this thread also so they can see how people are saying thing like "im a bertie bassett and proud" the marketing team might see this as good free advertising.


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## Ceris Comet (23 May 2012)

Go for it girl !!!!!!!
You have my backing every inch of the way !


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## Bikerchickone (23 May 2012)

That's great, let's hope they let you use it. Even if you were to put on the pic somewhere 'image of BB used by kind permission of..... ' that should cover it! Well done. Let us know what happens!  x


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## touchstone (23 May 2012)

I think they need to market a whole new range of Bertie Basset hi-viz, great marketing opportunity!


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## Ceris Comet (23 May 2012)

PLLEASE copyright it first thing ! I will PM you


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## Ladydragon (24 May 2012)

Ceris Comet said:



			PLLEASE copyright it first thing ! I will PM you
		
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Copyright automatically applies for artistic works...  But, Bertie's creator (or the company) hold his copyright...  And any trademark or design right...

It would be great to hear that the request to use the Bertie image in the hi viz art work was approved...  I don't know if a H&H article would qualify as current event to allow the use with full credit...  That's more complicated than I've ever needed to know...


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## rhino (24 May 2012)

Ladydragon said:



			Copyright automatically applies for artistic works...  But, Bertie's creator (or the company) hold his copyright...  And any trademark or design right...

It would be great to hear that the request to use the Bertie image in the hi viz art work was approved...  I don't know if a H&H article would qualify as current event to allow the use with full credit...  That's more complicated than I've ever needed to know... 

Click to expand...

Plus IPC have the right to use anything posted on here, it wouldn't make a difference to them if Nah sought copyright now or not.


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## Ladydragon (24 May 2012)

rhino said:



			Plus IPC have the right to use anything posted on here, it wouldn't make a difference to them if Nah sought copyright now or not.
		
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Ah...haven't read all the T&C's...  Nah already has and would retain copyright but I guess IPC have some 'right to use/share/distribute' type clause then?

ETA: Just found it...  Clause 5: Intellectual Property
IPC Media Ltd. reserves the right to re-use any submission to the Forum of Horse & Hound Online in any format or media and in such ways as Horse & Hound sees fit. Users waive their moral rights to object to any derogatory treatment, or to be identified as the author, of the submission in question.

Ho hum...  I'd better say nothing...


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## Ceris Comet (24 May 2012)

Bet they wouldnt want to copyright the HH article !!!!!!!!!!!!


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## rhino (24 May 2012)

Ladydragon said:



			Ah...haven't read all the T&C's...  Nah already has and would retain copyright but I guess IPC have some 'right to use/share/distribute' type clause then?

ETA: Just found it...  Clause 5: Intellectual Property
IPC Media Ltd. reserves the right to re-use any submission to the Forum of Horse & Hound Online in any format or media and in such ways as Horse & Hound sees fit. Users waive their moral rights to object to any derogatory treatment, or to be identified as the author, of the submission in question.

Ho hum...  I'd better say nothing... 

Click to expand...

Yep, that's the sum of it.


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## Ceris Comet (24 May 2012)

I for one won't be buying this week....ill


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## Ceris Comet (24 May 2012)

I'll be not taking hh


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## camilla4 (24 May 2012)

Today's magazine - "Top 5 Forum Topics":  Number 1 simply listed as "Hi-Viz Clothing"!!!!!!


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## lannerch (24 May 2012)

Cc I suspect strongly you would not of bought anyway 
Lol at hiviz however on a positive point at least it's hi lighting this thread and at least it's highlighting hiviz


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## Ceris Comet (24 May 2012)

I have taken hh every week for the last 30 years lannerch.


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## Ceris Comet (24 May 2012)

camilla4 said:



			Today's magazine - "Top 5 Forum Topics":  Number 1 simply listed as "Hi-Viz Clothing"!!!!!!
		
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TOTAL AND UTTER COWARDS !!!!!!!!


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## camilla4 (24 May 2012)

Ceris Comet said:



			TOTAL AND UTTER COWARDS !!!!!!!!
		
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I did wonder how they'd get around the fact that this was clearly going to be one of the busiest threads of the past week!


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## Ceris Comet (24 May 2012)

camilla4 said:



			I did wonder how they'd get around the fact that this was clearly going to be one of the busiest threads of the past week!
		
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DISGUSTING !!!
TOAL DISREGARD FOR READERS !!!!


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## Ceris Comet (24 May 2012)

GO TO YOUR LOCAL SUPERMARKET OR SHOP AND FLICK THROUGH TO FIND THIS , BUT DONT BUY INTO THIS ARROGANCE (sp?)


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## alliersv1 (24 May 2012)

camilla4 said:



			Today's magazine - "Top 5 Forum Topics":  Number 1 simply listed as "Hi-Viz Clothing"!!!!!!
		
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Ceris Comet said:



			TOTAL AND UTTER COWARDS !!!!!!!!
		
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How pathetic!!
Really, really disappointed, but not surprised at all. 
Anything in the letters page?

ETA Can someone link to a FB page or something that I can copy the link and share it around please?


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## milo'n'molly (24 May 2012)

Ceris Comet said:



			TOTAL AND UTTER COWARDS !!!!!!!!
		
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this^^^^ but to me that shows they are at least a little ashamed or else they'd be happy to highlight it


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## Rowreach (24 May 2012)

Is there nothing else about it in the mag?? (Fred the Post doesn't get here till about 3pm )


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## Mithras (24 May 2012)

What a fuss over nothing.  No point in keeping things in perspective, eh?  Or having a sense of humour?  The comment, which I also read, was part of a humerous article, which I enjoyed, but which like all good humour was based on truth.  It certainly didn't advocate not wearing enough hi-viz, but advocated not being obsessed by hi-viz, in the context that British riders are becoming woosy and obsessed with health and safety to the point that it overrules everything else in their sport.  

And I think the comments in here prove that (written before the tragic accident caused by a driver towing a flatbed truck happened before all the vitriol is heaped on me as well).  I've read some overwrought, exaggerated drivel on here sometimes, but this takes the biscuit.


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## Patterdale (24 May 2012)

FWIW I have to agree Mithras....


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## mtj (24 May 2012)

Whether or not the article attempted to be humour, this thread demonstrated that the author failed to amuse.


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## Patterdale (24 May 2012)

Failed to amuse SOME....I certainly won't be having histrionics and cancelling my subscription!


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## Toby_Zaphod (24 May 2012)

What a spineless & cowardly group of 'Journalists' & the editor is the worst of the lot!!! 

Considering the outrage voiced by so many people the editor should have put some reply in the magasine, but that would have taken some b@lls, which it appears the editor & staff are short of! They are a disgrace!!!!


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## MissChaos (24 May 2012)

Those who have this issue already - anything in letters?


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## Shysmum (24 May 2012)

I guess at least they did nod in the direction of this thread - must have taken some swallowing 

As a result of all the above, I bought a hi viz tail guard, only to find it would not even fit round my lab's tail. let alone a horse's. I am going to have to use it as a ferret hammock. Urgh.


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## Mithras (24 May 2012)

mtj said:



			Whether or not the article attempted to be humour, this thread demonstrated that the author failed to amuse.
		
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I am sure it amused many.  I was laughing at a show with some fellow competitors about the comment regarding the being asked not to canter in a warm up as it was too frightning for some, because its true!  I don't think that whether it amused those who post on the HHO forum is exactly a barometer of the world at large, thankfully...


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## mtj (24 May 2012)

Its only a couple of years since H+H published a letter from someone regarding the dangers of Chinese lanterns.  At that time, no doubt at the behest of IPC advertising department, there was an editor's reply along the lines that they were beautiful and provided pleasure to lots of people.  H+H has more recently condemned the use of the lanterns.

I suspect a lot of editorial control lies with IPC rather than those who appear to direct the magazine.


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## mtj (24 May 2012)

Mithras said:



			I am sure it amused many.  I was laughing at a show with some fellow competitors about the comment regarding the being asked not to canter in a warm up as it was too frightning for some, because its true!  I don't think that whether it amused those who post on the HHO forum is exactly a barometer of the world at large, thankfully...
		
Click to expand...

Actually, I agreed with just about all the article.  Having seen a healthy horse swaddled in 5 rugs and a heat lamp, you will have to excuse me if I don't find over rugging funny.

I just think its nuts to include a reference to hi-viz in such an article.  Too many hackers are still phobic about the use of hi-viz.


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## Shantara (24 May 2012)

mtj said:



			Its only a couple of years since H+H published a letter from someone regarding the dangers of Chinese lanterns.  At that time, no doubt at the behest of IPC advertising department, there was an editor's reply along the lines that they were beautiful and provided pleasure to lots of people.  H+H has more recently condemned the use of the lanterns.

I suspect a lot of editorial control lies with IPC rather than those who appear to direct the magazine.
		
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Chinese lanterns aren't dangerous. 
Thai lanterns are dangerous.

Just saying ^^

No word from BB yet, but it's still early


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## Amaranta (24 May 2012)

patterdale said:



			FWIW I have to agree Mithras....
		
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Me too, I simply cannot believe all the twisted knickers on this thread!


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## Ceris Comet (24 May 2012)

I'm glad some of you find this thread SO amusing


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## Amaranta (24 May 2012)

Ceris Comet said:



			Devestated....youngsters and no hi-viz..hope you're proud of yourselves hh...
		
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How dare you! This comment is totally unacceptable, the fact is that from the sounds of it HiViz would not have helped in this situation anyway.  I'm so glad that you are so perfect that you feel that you can judge in this situation.

Totally disgusted.  Oh and it is spelt devAstated.


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## Ceris Comet (24 May 2012)

Armaranta....please keep up.. I apologised for the coment two days ago and you must of read it if you are raking through the thread looking for tidbits to comment on


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## Feathered (24 May 2012)

Well that was a bit of a cop out H&H. 

Amaranta, CC has already repeatedly apologised for that comment.


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## Amaranta (24 May 2012)

Ceris Comet said:



			Armaranta....please keep up.. I apologised for the coment two days ago and you must of read it if you are raking through the thread looking for tidbits to comment on
		
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Yes I see that now - well done CC for apologising


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## milo'n'molly (24 May 2012)

mtj said:



			Actually, I agreed with just about all the article.  Having seen a healthy horse swaddled in 5 rugs and a heat lamp, you will have to excuse me if I don't find over rugging funny.

I just think its nuts to include a reference to hi-viz in such an article.  Too many hackers are still phobic about the use of hi-viz.
		
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this^ there are things to joke about but Making fun of people for wearing high viz is out of order and the response posted on here earlier from h&h was poor


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## BHS_official (24 May 2012)

Were delighted to see letters printed in todays issue of Horse and Hound on the comment about hi-viz in their mollycoddling feature last week.

As it didnt make todays issue, below is the letter we sent to H&H this week.



			
				Sheila Hardy said:
			
		


			Sir,

What a thought provoking article you produced in Are we becoming a nation of pansies? (17 May). For the most part it was a superb feature, covering many issues which are a constant source of frustration to us at the BHS  overfeeding, over-rugging, over-fussing; even down to being brave enough to make the right decisions for your horse at the end of its life.

However, there was one statement which raised cause for concern: A hi-vis vest may be prudent for roadwork, but not the Bertie Bassett levels of neon seen on some horses and riders. 

We face a constant battle to encourage riders to wear hi-vis clothing on themselves and their horse, and statements like that make the challenge far greater. We strongly recommend that hi-vis equipment is worn by both horse and rider whenever they ride out, regardless of the time of day, time of year or prevailing weather conditions. If the horse gets loose, a vest on the rider is not going to help him be seen by anyone, particularly traffic. 

It isnt just prudent for roadwork, either. Research by the Ministry of Defence has shown that military helicopter pilots can see a rider in hi-vis gear up to half a mile sooner and thus avoid flying straight over the top of them. We regularly receive reports of this and civilian helicopters can see the hi-vis bedecked riders up to two miles away. It also means that in the unfortunate event that a rider is thrown from their horse and left perhaps injured, in open countryside, the searching police helicopter or air ambulance will see them much sooner and prevent their injuries from becoming more serious. Im sure there will be plenty of riders reading this that wish they had been spotted quicker following a fall.

It may be a cliché to say wearing hi-vis could save your life  but it really could! There is an enormous difference between discouraging the over-the-top procedures seen as mollycoddling and discouraging measures that could save lives. So no, we mustnt become a nation of pansies, but we must also not allow ourselves to be ignorant to measures which could help keep ourselves and our horses safe.
		
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## ester (24 May 2012)

What an excellent letter, addressing all of the relevant points. A shame it wasn't printed.


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## Kaylum (24 May 2012)

Mithras said:



			What a fuss over nothing.  No point in keeping things in perspective, eh?  Or having a sense of humour?  The comment, which I also read, was part of a humerous article, which I enjoyed, but which like all good humour was based on truth.  It certainly didn't advocate not wearing enough hi-viz, but advocated not being obsessed by hi-viz, in the context that British riders are becoming woosy and obsessed with health and safety to the point that it overrules everything else in their sport.  

And I think the comments in here prove that (written before the tragic accident caused by a driver towing a flatbed truck happened before all the vitriol is heaped on me as well).  I've read some overwrought, exaggerated drivel on here sometimes, but this takes the biscuit.
		
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Personally I think it actually highlights that people first of all read the magazine and secondly when your driving along and you see a horse rider or cyclist in hi viz that you can spot one at least 2 seconds faster with hi viz on, although the rider this morning I could see a quarter of a mile away it proves that it helps other road users.  It also gains the respect of other road users.  So obsess about it yes anything that helps yourself, your horse and others.  

I recall there were a few threads about how chinese laterns had landed on horses.


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## Kaylum (24 May 2012)

BHS_official said:



			Were delighted to see letters printed in todays issue of Horse and Hound on the comment about hi-viz in their mollycoddling feature last week.

As it didnt make todays issue, below is the letter we sent to H&H this week.
		
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Nice lets hope they print it next week.


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## Flame_ (24 May 2012)

ester said:



			What an excellent letter, addressing all of the relevant points. A shame it wasn't printed.
		
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This. Good letter BHS.


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## Mithras (24 May 2012)

Kaylum said:



			Personally I think it actually highlights that people first of all read the magazine and secondly when your driving along and you see a horse rider or cyclist in hi viz that you can spot one at least 2 seconds faster with hi viz on, although the rider this morning I could see a quarter of a mile away it proves that it helps other road users.  It also gains the respect of other road users.  So obsess about it yes anything that helps yourself, your horse and others.
		
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I think it highlights the fact that some people will believe whatever they read and have lost the ability to think for themselves.  And its not "advice" is it?  Its a humerous article full of comments, but not advice.  Any fully cogniscant adult should be capable of distinguishing between advice and humour.


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## YorksG (24 May 2012)

I see that yet again, some who consider themselves to be 'competition' riders and so superior to the rest of the horse riding community, feel the need to belittle the efforts of those who attempt to make hacking a safer experience for the horse, the rider and perhaps most importantly, OTHER ROAD USERS. I do despair of the arrogance shown and as a side issue, given that they are often the most humorlous individuals on the forum, worry about what they find amusing!


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## Mithras (24 May 2012)

YorksG said:



			I see that yet again, some who consider themselves to be 'competition' riders and so superior to the rest of the horse riding community, feel the need to belittle the efforts of those who attempt to make hacking a safer experience for the horse, the rider and perhaps most importantly, OTHER ROAD USERS. I do despair of the arrogance shown and as a side issue, given that they are often the most humorlous individuals on the forum, worry about what they find amusing!
		
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I don't know if you are referring to me, but as an amateur rider who has not yet jumped beyond Foxhunter, I hack regularly and in hi-viz all over the place.  In fact, I'm just going to hack my two today.


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## YorksG (24 May 2012)

Mithras said:



			I don't know if you are referring to me, but as an amateur rider who has not yet jumped beyond Foxhunter, I hack regularly and in hi-viz all over the place.  In fact, I'm just going to hack my two today.
		
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Oh I see you have edited out the bit about how you were laughing with fellow competitors about the article this weekend, it does rather change the context in which you were posting. There was an element of 'aiming' at you, given that you had originally posted rather a different original content.


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## Flame_ (24 May 2012)

I like a joke but a national horsey magazine taking the p out of people for wearing a lot of hi viz is bad, isn't it? It wasn't funny, but even if it had been, it was pretty irresponsible.


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## fidleyspromise (24 May 2012)

Fab letter by the BHS.



Mithras said:



			I think it highlights the fact that some people will believe whatever they read and have lost the ability to think for themselves.  And its not "advice" is it?  Its a humerous article full of comments, but not advice.  Any fully cogniscant adult should be capable of distinguishing between advice and humour.
		
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My biggest concern with it is not with adults who, as you say should be able to distinguish advice and humour, but with the teenagers who read it.  Impressionable young adults who may already be self-conscious and then make the decision not to wear Hi-viz through the fear of being ridiculed by their peers, or even by adults who are derisive of hi-viz items.

I actually can't say much, as I do have hi-viz brushing boots, hat band, tabard and hi-viz exercise sheet and on a daily basis I wear - a tabard.  My horse is grey so I don't feel anything more would allow her to be seen any quicker, plus some of those items would hinder us as we go into the forest and branches etc are fairly overgrown in spots.
I will however reassess, which hi-viz items I use, when I start hacking my youngster, as she is bay.


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## Mithras (24 May 2012)

YorksG said:



			Oh I see you have edited out the bit about how you were laughing with fellow competitors about the article this weekend, it does rather change the context in which you were posting. There was an element of 'aiming' at you, given that you had originally posted rather a different original content.
		
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I haven't edited out anything.  Like many people, I compete and also hack my horses.  However I have come across people who are so namby pamby that they are afraid of anyone with a forward going horse anywhere near them, and I found that part of the article funny.  In fact, a  lot of the article was damned funny, particularly taken in context...!


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## PandorasJar (24 May 2012)

fidleyspromise said:



			Fab letter by the BHS.



My biggest concern with it is not with adults who, as you say should be able to distinguish advice and humour, but with the teenagers who read it.  Impressionable young adults who may already be self-conscious and then make the decision not to wear Hi-viz through the fear of being ridiculed by their peers, or even by adults who are derisive of hi-viz items.
		
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+1

Good letter BHS, lets hope it gets published next time!

Pan


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## Ceris Comet (24 May 2012)

You def said you were laughing with fellow competitors at the weekend over this thread Mithras and it states under your post that you did indeed edit it this morning at 08.53


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## Patterdale (24 May 2012)

So......can people now not comment if they compete..?

I do see the point about the article, I took it in good fun and with a pinch of salt - not till I came on here that day did I think of it as being offensive.
I see where people are coming from and agree that hi-viz is important, but hasn't this thread gone just a teeeensy bit over the top...?


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## Mithras (24 May 2012)

Ceris Comet said:



			You def said you were laughing with fellow competitors at the weekend over this thread Mithras and it states under your post that you did indeed edit it this morning at 08.53
		
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Good heavens!  The HHO Inquisition squad strikes again!

From memory, because I really can't be bothered to go back to check the thread, I edited it to add the part about the tragic horse incident, so that I didn't sound crass.  The crime that I am accused of, the laughing at a funny article, has not been removed, so what point is it that the pair of you are trying to make?

As for your other point, I do believe it is permitted to laugh with your fellow competitors at something you have read in a magazine?!

fgs!  What a bunch of [edit]


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## Capriole (24 May 2012)

Nah said:



			Chinese lanterns aren't dangerous. 
Thai lanterns are dangerous.

Just saying ^^

No word from BB yet, but it's still early 

Click to expand...

How arent Chinese lanterns dangerous?  Of course they are dangerous.


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## Ceris Comet (24 May 2012)

Ofcourse they can comment ! But laughing at such a serious issue is out of order.


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## Ceris Comet (24 May 2012)

The laughing at the article bit is def no longer in your post Mithras


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## Mithras (24 May 2012)

Ceris Comet said:



			The laughing at the article bit is def no longer in your post Mithras
		
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Its at the bottom of page 83, plain as.

And yes, I will continue to laugh at humerous articles in magazines with my friends.  Long may it continue!  How anyone in their right mind could find anything wrong with that, I am at a loss.  Namby pamby is one thing, but the Laughing Police is another.  

I'm loving how you've manipulated this.

This is all getting seriously strange.


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## Ceris Comet (24 May 2012)

Apologies its still loud and proud in your following post !


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## Ceris Comet (24 May 2012)

Call it what you like mithras, but if this thread makes just ONE youngster think about wearing hi-viz,  its been very worthwhile


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## lannerch (24 May 2012)

At last more posters who actually read the article!


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## Mithras (24 May 2012)

Ceris Comet said:



			Call it what you like mithras, but if this thread makes just ONE youngster think about wearing hi-viz,  its been very worthwhile
		
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tbh I would question whether such obsessiveness is likely to have the opposite effect in some.  I think the highlighting of tragic accidents and encouraging people to think about what precautions they may take and the reasons behind doing so is a far better approach than being obsessive and pretending to be all offended and misderstand articles.


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## Ceris Comet (24 May 2012)

If feeling passionate about an issue is being obsessive then guilty as charged. I have teenage children and getting them to wear hi-viz was hard enough before hh turned the isssue into a pantomime.


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## Patterdale (24 May 2012)

I really didn't see a problem with it when I read it!! 

If it had been in an otherwise serious article and put forward as serious advice - 'do not wear hi-viz' or similar, it would be different. 

It was probably worth bringing up briefly but the level of hysteria, and some of the inverse snobbery on this thread has been astounding.


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## Patterdale (24 May 2012)

Plus I don't think H&H were the ones that turned it into a pantomime......

Half a sentence in a magazine (in an article kids would normally skip over anyway) versus 87 pages of hysterics?


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## Ceris Comet (24 May 2012)

Long may the " hysterics" last if it keeps this issue in the forefront of peoples minds.


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## Mithras (24 May 2012)

patterdale said:



			Plus I don't think H&H were the ones that turned it into a pantomime......
		
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Indeed...

Anyway, I'm off to hack out my horses, I will be wearing a hi-viz vest and they will be wearing hi-viz brushing boots.  And thats it.  I have to balance how long it takes to get ready with how long I have to effectively ride in.


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## lannerch (24 May 2012)

Have to agree, totally patter dale and mithras also the attitude by some key posters if you date to post against the majority you become the enemy and everything you say is questioned and often inferred as rubbish!


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## lannerch (24 May 2012)

Dare not date iPhone again!


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## lachlanandmarcus (24 May 2012)

One or two letters printed in H&H but no mention of the nearly 900 posts on this subject ......as expected they arent apologising for irresponsibility in the article although they are quick enough to tut tut at prof riders not wearing hats etc. Cop out!!

Think they should think again. 

On a basic level, unless riders get high viz'd up and do everything possible to make drivers see them, it gives drivers and their insurance companies a great excuse to wriggle out of the legal consequences and  making recompense when they crash into them. 

It IS hard to see high viz as fashionable because its not that individual, so young riders who want to stand out dont want to wear a 'uniform. That makes it all the more incumbent on horsey publications to promote it.


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## ribbons (24 May 2012)

Not really surprised H&H have not mentioned this thread specifically. It has become  a frenzied, over the top hysterical attempt by some to be recognised in print by a very big publication. This thread started by pointing out that some people like to wear far more hi vis than others and felt safer by doing so, and that H&H had no right to ridicule them for doing so. I feel these people had a point. However it (this thread)has now become a joke to most people. 80+ pages but mostly contributed to by a very small group of people banging their drum, and shouting the odds. Why would H&H want to recognise a tiny % of self publicists. I agree with someone else who said this thread may have worsened the situation. In the real world H&H readership is huge, a few hysterical opinions spread over a large number of forum pages is not the general opinion. 
My opinion FWIW, wear a hi Viz tabbard or jacket and leg wraps on horse. If you want more wear more. But don't try to ridicule a huge magazine. You'll just end up looking ridiculous, and alienate the kids we want to wear some hi Viz. After all, what self respecting young rider would wish to be associated with this circus.


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## Patterdale (24 May 2012)

Very well said ribbons


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## quirky (24 May 2012)

Agree with Ribbons.

I don't think H&H would necessarily want new users to the forum to think that the main posters on here are indicative of HHO.

I guess if we had all toed the line and agreed with the antagonists, then this would have slipped off the page days ago.

Live and learn


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## mtj (24 May 2012)

quirky said:



			Agree with Ribbons.

I don't think H&H would necessarily want new users to the forum to think that the main posters on here are indicative of HHO.

I guess if we had all toed the line and agreed with the antagonists, then this would have slipped off the page days ago.

Live and learn

Click to expand...

But you are keeping it on the first page now....


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## justforfun (24 May 2012)

Ceris Comet said:



			Call it what you like mithras, but if this thread makes just ONE youngster think about wearing hi-viz,  its been very worthwhile
		
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Thats the point I was trying to make.


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## Booboos (24 May 2012)

ribbons said:



			Not really surprised H&H have not mentioned this thread specifically. It has become  a frenzied, over the top hysterical attempt by some to be recognised in print by a very big publication. This thread started by pointing out that some people like to wear far more hi vis than others and felt safer by doing so, and that H&H had no right to ridicule them for doing so. I feel these people had a point. However it (this thread)has now become a joke to most people. 80+ pages but mostly contributed to by a very small group of people banging their drum, and shouting the odds. Why would H&H want to recognise a tiny % of self publicists. I agree with someone else who said this thread may have worsened the situation. In the real world H&H readership is huge, a few hysterical opinions spread over a large number of forum pages is not the general opinion. 
My opinion FWIW, wear a hi Viz tabbard or jacket and leg wraps on horse. If you want more wear more. But don't try to ridicule a huge magazine. You'll just end up looking ridiculous, and alienate the kids we want to wear some hi Viz. After all, what self respecting young rider would wish to be associated with this circus.
		
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Either the magazine has a policy of publishing the top 5 threads of the week or it doesn't. To mention the thread with a misleading name is worthy of further criticism.

I don't know about hysterical but if I want to be in the top 5 (again!  ) I know exactly what to do, not exactly tough is it?? I LOVE ROLLKUR - there, that will keep the thread going for a wee while longer!


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## Patterdale (24 May 2012)

They NEVER put the full thread title in as there isn't the room. 

'Hi-viz Clothing' isnt exactly miles away from what the threads going on about....


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## mtj (24 May 2012)

Rollkur eeek!

Seriously though, as the OP of this thread, I'm really not concerned whether it makes the H+H top 5 again.

What I would really like though, is to see H+H publish the letter from the BHS.

I realise its not my decision to make, but can we ALL focus on this.  Perhaps a new thread?  Probably not by me as I am sure it was cause confusion with this thread.

The great news is that we all seem to be agreed that Hi-viz is a must.


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## MissMincePie&Brandy (25 May 2012)

I think there's a slogan somewhere. How about ...

BE SEEN - BE BERTIE 

However there's a flaw with the slogan, and indeed with the relevance to the Bertie Bassett comment in H&H -  Bertie Bassett actually wears just a black and white jumper, with yellow trousers and blue shoes!!! That's not very hi viz at all is it ?


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## Capriole (25 May 2012)

MissMincePie&Brandy said:



			I think there's a slogan somewhere. How about ...

BE SEEN - BE BERTIE 

Click to expand...

Or BE BERTIE - DON'T GET HURTIE!

I know, its bad, I apologise


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## Capriole (4 June 2012)

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/397/312836.html


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## zaminda (4 June 2012)

The RAF have asked time and again for people to wear reflective gear. The MOD gave away some gear a few years ago through the BHS. I've never had problems with low flying aircraft, but then I wear the gear.


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## fburton (4 June 2012)

Capriole said:



			Or BE BERTIE - DON'T GET HURTIE!

I know, its bad, I apologise 

Click to expand...

LOL! Brilliant.


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## Patterdale (30 December 2012)

Oops, I tripped.....


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## PandorasJar (30 December 2012)

Lol


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## Ladydragon (30 December 2012)

Ha ha...I was wondering how this thread had escaped the cellar...


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## amandaco2 (30 December 2012)

That's outrageous.......I take a dim view of that, the more hivis the better......


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## Patterdale (30 December 2012)

I know, shocking.


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## FfionWinnie (30 December 2012)

Someone said to us today you have plenty of hi viz on (sarcastic tone), both riders had yellow jackets and I had a yellow quarter sheet and pink martingale tubes. Which is actually minimal for us as we weren't on the road much. 

I wasn't in the mood for idiots and replied without thinking, that it was better to "be seen" than "be dead". That fairly shut him up


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## Dave282B (30 December 2012)

Salted or sweet ? Mmmmm


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## Big Ben (30 December 2012)

Hi viz is compulsory here, for hunting season anyway, or you are in severe danger of actually being shot.


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## Buds_mum (30 December 2012)

someone has been very naughty digging this up!!


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## mashnut (30 December 2012)

Aw welcome back old thread!


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## moana (30 December 2012)

Such a long thread so apologies as I have not read most of it. Just wanted to say, I don't think you or your horse can wear too much hi-viz. In what way is wearinhg hi-viz mollycoddling anyhow, does it physically affect the horse as rugging etc does?


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## Sprocket123 (30 December 2012)

Started reading, then i noticed the date  hi viz always wear it , brushing boots,neck strap, jacket. I d rather been seen than not


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## Big Ben (30 December 2012)

Mrs Bucket said:



			I have only just joined and I'm shocked at this thread.

Click to expand...

Hyacinth is that you?


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## Patterdale (30 December 2012)

Mwahahahaha!


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## tallyho! (30 December 2012)

Hello fellow Bertie's!!!


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## FionaM12 (30 December 2012)

Haha. Ceris Comet was so bonkers on this thread. Shortly before her much-anticipated demise.


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## Patterdale (6 February 2013)

Ooops, there I go again!


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## tallyho! (6 February 2013)

Well done I was looking for this earlier but forgot title...


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## PandorasJar (6 February 2013)

Patterdale said:



			Ooops, there I go again!



Click to expand...


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## HBM1 (6 February 2013)

ye god, 91 pages to a thread...not going to read through it, but talking of hi viz, I just saw in the news that Churchill have refused to pay out a £5 million award to a young girl left brain damaged after being hit by a car as she walked along a road, because she was not wearing hi viz.  Last I heard it was not law to do so when walking,common sense may be, but not law....


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## Goldenstar (6 February 2013)

Always nice to see the return of an old friend.


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## Patterdale (6 February 2013)

Isn't it?  should we bring 'The Brooke Hospital causes suffering back too? And a few rileyboys? 

Mwahahahaha!


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## Goldenstar (6 February 2013)

Patterdale said:



			Isn't it?  should we bring 'The Brooke Hospital causes suffering back too? And a few rileyboys? 

Mwahahahaha!
		
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Oh yes the Brooke ,
And then for light relief Papa Fritas roll up roll up thread my all time Favorite


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## Patterdale (6 February 2013)

Wednesday nights always need a bit of light relief!


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## Shysmum (6 February 2013)

HURRAH !!!


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## Abbeygale (6 February 2013)

WTF?? Is this a flipping time warp or summat???


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## tallyho! (6 February 2013)

You put your hands on your hips...

_you bring your knees in tiiiiiiight_

You do the pelvic thrust...

_let it drive you insaaaaaaaaaaaaane_


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## mashnut (6 February 2013)

Ah hello old friend thread....
For tallyho! and Abbeygale!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPzhYhuQXZY


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## Abbeygale (6 February 2013)

I'm doing the dance here...


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## tallyho! (6 February 2013)

Rockin on down!


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## Littlelegs (6 February 2013)

You're all approaching this the wrong way if you want to revive it. 
In my opinion, only nervous, novicey numpties wear hi-viz, or indeed hats. Competent riders don't buy a load of nasty tat, instead they can rely on their superior riding ability & trained horses. It's always been difficult to have an effective way of qualifying rider experience, but imo it can be assessed by how much hi-viz a rider wears. Eg:


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## Littlelegs (6 February 2013)

Stupid phone!
Eg:
-no hi-viz, experienced.
-tabard, average
-tabard & leg wraps, competent novice
- tabard, leg wraps & hat band, nervous novice.
And so on.


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## PandorasJar (6 February 2013)

Littlelegs that is the biggest load of cobblers I have ever heard. Everyone knows that the _really_ competant riders are sat in the coffee room talking about idiots in hi-viz and not on a horse at all


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## piebaldsparkle (6 February 2013)

Patterdale said:



			Wednesday nights always need a bit of light relief!
		
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No comment!


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## Patterdale (6 February 2013)

True littlelegs. 

If you can ride properly you shouldn't need hi-viz!


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## zigzag (6 February 2013)

Revive Shils cob thread!!


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## Littlelegs (6 February 2013)

Imagine the shame of hacking a cob in hi-viz, what a sight for sore eyes that would be!


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## Kallibear (6 February 2013)

I should just shoot myself now. 

Hi-viz, hat, cob . Plus barefoot, treeless and bitless. There is no hope for me.


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## Penks (6 February 2013)

After reading this entire thread on my mobile tonight (which is no mean feat let me tell you  ) I have only just noticed the date of the original post was in May last year and was wondering ...... Did H&H ever print the response letter that the BHS sent into them ?  Did the brilliant horseriding Bertie Basset in hiviz picture ever get copyrighted? Did H&H ever retract or explain their statement further?


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## mtj (7 February 2013)

Guess, as the op, I should fill you in.

H+h did print the BHS letter, and several others.  Editorially, they squirmed on the "only kidding folks" basis and affirmed their commitment to hi-viz.

Bertie Bassett didn't take off.

Congratualtions on reading whole thread, confess I haven't!


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## Ellen Durow (7 February 2013)

mtj said:



			Today's H+H has an article on mollycoddling horses.  Most is about overfeeding/rugging/clipping etc., but it also implies that wearing more than a hi-viz tabard is excessive.

Bit shocked to be honest.  Thought the recommendation was for some hi viz on both horse and rider.

What do you think?
		
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I think I'd prefer to take my equine insurance company's advice on this rather than H&H's. Bearing in mind that many insurance companies would find you at least somewhat at fault if you were involved in an RTA and you were not wearing a minimum of 4 pieces of hi-vis, even if you were quiltless in the cause of the accident. 

It's worth checking this with your insurers.


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## tallyho! (7 February 2013)

Kallibear said:



			I should just shoot myself now. 

Hi-viz, hat, cob . Plus barefoot, treeless and bitless. There is no hope for me.






Click to expand...

Hippy!


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## Shysmum (7 February 2013)

I must confess that somewhere on here I have opened myself up to a police prosecution - I've put a piccie of Shy and I wearing POLITE HI VIZ !!!! 

I am prepared for a knock on the door. 

Kallibear, that is a fantastic photo - we too are hippies


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## Mithras (7 February 2013)

Ellen Durow said:



			I think I'd prefer to take my equine insurance company's advice on this rather than H&H's. Bearing in mind that many insurance companies would find you at least somewhat at fault if you were involved in an RTA and you were not wearing a minimum of 4 pieces of hi-vis, even if you were quiltless in the cause of the accident. 

It's worth checking this with your insurers.
		
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I'd prefer to take my own advice, while remembering that insurance companies do not make the law, and there is no case where damages have been reduced in tort or delict for a failure to wear hi-viz.

Parliament and the courts make law, the latter interpret existing law also, and insurance companies must abide by the law.  Therefore, if challenged, if insurance companies get it wrong, they will lose.


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## YorksG (7 February 2013)

I prefer to keep myself and my horse at as low risk as possible while riding on roads  So I shall continue to use the mares Hi-Viz leg wraps, martingale type straps, tail wrap and occaisionally exercise sheet, my Hi-Viz long sleeved jacket, gloves and hat band. The insurance position doesn't bother me particularly, what does concern me is letting people see that we are there. I was very pleased one day to have a car full of boy racer types slow down to tell me how much they like my mares socks


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## FfionWinnie (7 February 2013)

I'd rather not have the bother of needing to challenge my insurance company by virtue of not being strawberry jam on the road so I shall continue to wear hi viz in the hope it keeps me in one piece!


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## Penks (7 February 2013)

mtj said:



			Guess, as the op, I should fill you in.

H+h did print the BHS letter, and several others.  Editorially, they squirmed on the "only kidding folks" basis and affirmed their commitment to hi-viz.

Bertie Bassett didn't take off.

Congratualtions on reading whole thread, confess I haven't!
		
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Thank you for filling in the rest of the story! glad H&H did at least print the BHS response letter, pity they didn't retract what they had originally said though.
Shame the Hiviz horseriding Bertie Bassett pic didn't take off, he was brill


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