# WWYD - Tripping



## Dyllymoo (19 August 2020)

I know I have sort of asked before, but I can see a few options and if J was yours what would you do?

Bit of background - just turned 6 year old irish cob.  bought last year, very green but good to hack.  We have done mostly hacking, upping it the past 3 months . J has always "stumbled" over his own front feet, but he isn't particularly forward, can dawdle especially in company, and is very green and unbalanced.  A few weeks ago in the schooling field we took a tumble in trot (he fell to both knees but got himself up), he wasn't going particularly forward and physio advised she thought it was just laziness on his part (Video below).  

I am a big worrier, both of my previous 2 horses were bought and after a year/ 18 months showed medical issues that they had had a long time and both ended up being PTS after months/ years of rehab, so i'm starting to wonder if there is something more to this or if I am just being paranoid.  

Last night we went out solo as I wanted to make a mental note of any trips and when they happened.  He tripped 3 times (1st time he wasn't paying attention - slight downhill on the road more a stumble, 2nd time he felt like he forgot to pick his hoof up, 3rd time was on the road downhill and he felt like he kind of went over on his hoof (like he put it down toe first) and we nearly went down on the road.  It was scary.).  I've found some knee boots I'm hopefully buying, but I'm just so worried that it could be something sinister.  The only issue I have is if I do get xrays (I'm assuming that's what I would need) of his feet, the insurance will pick up on this and do some exclusions which could hit me hard down the road?  Even if I don't claim on the insurance I'm assuming they can exclude down the road?

I see my options as:

1) Go barefoot, keep an eye, make a log of any trips.

2) Stay shod, keep an eye, make a log of any trips.

3) Go to vet, get some xrays of feet and go from there?


So.… if he was yours, WWYD?

Video of his fall  

Video


----------



## milliepops (19 August 2020)

if he's stumbling over like that quite often then I think I'd be heading for a work up at the vets. yeah he looks half asleep in the video but it's more than just a little trip.  

I think I'd pick up the phone to the vet, explain the tripping and see what they would want to do first.  this is what your insurance is for, really.


----------



## Dyllymoo (19 August 2020)

milliepops said:



			if he's stumbling over like that quite often then I think I'd be heading for a work up at the vets. yeah he looks half asleep in the video but it's more than just a little trip. 

I think I'd pick up the phone to the vet, explain the tripping and see what they would want to do first.  this is what your insurance is for, really.
		
Click to expand...

Thank you.  I did call the vet a week or so ago and he didn't seem fussed.  Said they could come out and look at him, or I could take him to them.  I mentioned xrays of his feet and he said "Yeah, could do".... Made me feel like maybe I shouldn't bother.  Might try and call another vet possibly.


----------



## milliepops (19 August 2020)

if he falls over like that frequently then he's going to end up injuring himself and maybe you as well. I think I'd either call again and explain why you are concerned, or try a different vet if they're giving you the brush off.  I'm not sure if foot x rays are the right place to start or not, but I'd definitely want someone with a special interest in movement  & lameness to be taking a look.  have you got a specialist equine vets close by?


----------



## Dyllymoo (19 August 2020)

milliepops said:



			if he falls over like that frequently then he's going to end up injuring himself and maybe you as well. I think I'd either call again and explain why you are concerned, or try a different vet if they're giving you the brush off.  I'm not sure if foot x rays are the right place to start or not, but I'd definitely want someone with a special interest in movement  & lameness to be taking a look.  have you got a specialist equine vets close by?
		
Click to expand...

We haven't got any specialists anymore I don't think.  I will ask a few friends and see who they are with.  Unfortunately both my vets and the other local one have been taken over by a big company and the vets I knew have all left.


----------



## cauda equina (19 August 2020)

I'd ask your farrier to watch him trot up next time he comes, and see if he's got any suggestions too
eg perhaps the balance isn't spot on


----------



## angrybird1 (19 August 2020)

He doesn't look quite sound to me.


----------



## Dyllymoo (19 August 2020)

angrybird1 said:



			He doesn't look quite sound to me.
		
Click to expand...

Interesting.  I've never thought he hasn't been sound.


----------



## Meowy Catkin (19 August 2020)

On your other thread, the photos show that he is being shod very short at the heels (no heel support).

https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/threads/thoughts-on-these-hooves.793044/page-2#post-14367400

I do think that the field in the video is very flat and the trip is bigger than I had expected from the terrain. He is not moving with any impulsion. I wouldn't be happy with leaving things as they are. There are definitely improvements that can be made RE his hooves.


----------



## Dyllymoo (19 August 2020)

Meowy Catkin said:



			On your other thread, the photos show that he is being shod very short at the heels (no heel support).

https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/threads/thoughts-on-these-hooves.793044/page-2#post-14367400

I do think that the field in the video is very flat and the trip is bigger than I had expected from the terrain. He is not moving with any impulsion. I wouldn't be happy with leaving things as they are. There are definitely improvements that can be made RE his hooves.
		
Click to expand...

Thank you.  What sort of improvements?  Sorry i'm such a dunce with things like this  Currently getting myself worked up as friends are telling me to stop being so silly, he is fine.


----------



## Sandstone1 (19 August 2020)

He looks slightly lame to me.  Possibly both front?   Can you get video of him trotting up on a level surface?  from in front and behind and side on.  you can then have a good look and see if you can notice anything?  You could also send it to the vet.


----------



## tatty_v (19 August 2020)

I’d second milliepops and definitely get a specialist equine vet to look at him. I watched the video and the trip really took me by surprise as the field looks nice and flat with short grass and it seemed to come out of nowhere.

For what it’s worth my boy tripped and went down like that when I got back on post maternity leave. Vets diagnosed mild hock arthritis, we had the injections and haven’t had a problem since.

I hope you find out, it’s scary when that happens!


----------



## HashRouge (19 August 2020)

Definitely vet. Regular tripping is not normal and could be a sign of a number of different things. For my mare it was arthritis in the coffin joint, but it could be something else. I certainly wouldn't want to do nothing, one or both of you could get seriously hurt.


----------



## Meowy Catkin (19 August 2020)

Dyllymoo said:



			Thank you.  What sort of improvements?  Sorry i'm such a dunce with things like this  Currently getting myself worked up as friends are telling me to stop being so silly, he is fine.
		
Click to expand...

I think I said on the other thread that I would essentially do a kind of 'barefoot rehab' with him. So shoes off, walk in-hand on smooth tarmac, progress to riding and so on. I would also keep photos of the changes to his hooves. I don't know if I would change farrier or not, that depends on if his hooves have got worse or better over the last few shoeings and I don't know the answer to that.

I would also do all the basic checks to rule out back pain, saddle fit, teeth issues etc... just in case something else is going on. ETA - yes, a vet check too.

In an ideal world I would also find a field with lots of varied terrain (including steep bits) and turn him out there with other horses for a year.


----------



## milliepops (19 August 2020)

I agree that fall was a lot more significant than i was expecting from the description of tripping 

i understand the reasons why the hooves are getting lots of attention after the other thread, however I think I'd feel uncomfortable launching down that route without also getting an *interested* vet involved first.  they might be the root of it all or completely unrelated.
I think it's wheels that has just had to re-shoe her barefoot horse so that the vet investigations into something else can continue because the horse has sore feet (different situ but shows how sometimes you need all the professionals working together).

Dyllymoo I think you said your farrier was on your yard, did you get him to take a look yet?


----------



## Dyllymoo (19 August 2020)

milliepops said:



			I agree that fall was a lot more significant than i was expecting from the description of tripping 

i understand the reasons why the hooves are getting lots of attention after the other thread, however I think I'd feel uncomfortable launching down that route without also getting an *interested* vet involved first.  they might be the root of it all or completely unrelated.
I think it's wheels that has just had to re-shoe her barefoot horse so that the vet investigations into something else can continue because the horse has sore feet (different situ but shows how sometimes you need all the professionals working together).

Dyllymoo I think you said your farrier was on your yard, did you get him to take a look yet?
		
Click to expand...

  I feel so sad, I didn't think I had underplayed the fall but I obviously have.

I have spoken with the farrier and he thinks he is lazy and would go barefoot so has said to leave him to grow more foot before we try.  I haven't physically seen him on the yard for weeks so unfortunately haven't been able to just have a chat.


----------



## ForeverBroke_ (19 August 2020)

I think I would be taking him down for a work up/X-rays. He definitely didn't get ground clearance on either of his front feet before he goes down. Whilst hes not exactly 'forward,' he isn't dribbling along either, and for it to be quite regularly happening I would be concerned. Sorry


----------



## Meowy Catkin (19 August 2020)

'Lazy cob' often goes with a PSSM diagnosis going by some threads on here. Maybe something to rule out?


----------



## meleeka (19 August 2020)

ForeverBroke_ said:



			I think I would be taking him down for a work up/X-rays. He definitely didn't get ground clearance on either of his front feet before he goes down. Whilst hes not exactly 'forward,' he isn't dribbling along either, and for it to be quite regularly happening I would be concerned. Sorry 

Click to expand...

Me too.  I think the lack of ground clearance is probably the issue, so you need to find out why.  It doesn’t look to me as if it’s just a case of being lazy. It could literally be anything so I think a work up is in order.  What’s he like in the field?  Does he trip then? Does he ever trot/canter when he’s turned out?


----------



## Mrs. Jingle (19 August 2020)

Can you ask around for a recommendation for a very horse savvy vet?  Your present one sounds as good as useless to me.  If that tripping is as seen on video and is happening regularly I would most definitely be getting a full lameness workup before I made any decision about shoe, not shoe or whatever. 

I know you have asked for opinions from people what they would do, but random people on the internet cannot give you the answer based purely on a short video clip and no knowledge of your horse whatsoever.

Please source a really decent vet who is also happy to work in tandem with a good farrier and take it form there. Lovely cob by the way,  crossing everything it isn't anything too serious.


----------



## BBP (19 August 2020)

Things like this do my head in! (Not you, but your farrier and physio calling him lazy and your vet not being interested). Why is he lazy?! Generally because moving more actively is more uncomfortable. Whether that is feet, legs or body should be for them to figure out. Yes some horses are more laid back than others but it’s not in a horses interests to trip and fall, even a ‘lazy’ one. Although he is quite slow he lifts his legs clear of the ground (doesn’t toe drag like mine), it’s that last bit of break over where he should flip from pointy toe to heel first landing that seems slow.

I Think you are absolutely right to be trying to seek help. That’s not to say it’s anything serious at all, it could just be hoof balance not allowing for an easy break over, but don’t get hurt trying to push a tripping horse to be less lazy. I really hope you can find some professionals who are as interested in your horses well being as you are.


----------



## Meowy Catkin (19 August 2020)

I do agree with you Mrs J. I always hope that this kind of thread helps people make a list of things that they can then discuss with their Vet. More of a pre-vet talk through to brainstorm ideas rather than an alternative to talking to professionals. Also sometimes coming on here has given people the incentive to get a second opinion when things aren't progressing with the first professional, which is also good.

I hope that makes sense.


----------



## Dyllymoo (19 August 2020)

meleeka said:



			Me too.  I think the lack of ground clearance is probably the issue, so you need to find out why.  It doesn’t look to me as if it’s just a case of being lazy. It could literally be anything so I think a work up is in order.  What’s he like in the field?  Does he trip then? Does he ever trot/canter when he’s turned out?
		
Click to expand...

He does trot and canter to play and to come and see me, but its not often.  I have seen him trip in the field, but again not too often.


----------



## Dyllymoo (19 August 2020)

Thank you all.  Vet is booked for next Tuesday for a lameness/ orthopaedic exam.  Earliest date they could do.  They want me to keep him in work so I will probably ride and long rein in the school as now I'm paranoid he will go down again and hurt himself.  At least in there would be more of a soft landing  (note:  he has only gone down once, but I understand that it could happen again)


----------



## ForeverBroke_ (19 August 2020)

((Fingers and toes crossed for Tuesday ))


----------



## Meowy Catkin (19 August 2020)

Make sure that the Vet watches the video. 

I hope that it's something easy to fix/improve. Good luck.


----------



## meleeka (19 August 2020)

Don’t forget to update us.  Good luck for Tuesday, I really hope it’s something simple.


----------



## Pinkvboots (19 August 2020)

He doesn't look sound and he looks quite over weight I would be thinking it could be a low grade laminitis.


----------



## holeymoley (19 August 2020)

Crikey I wasn't expecting that! I thought you meant a few trips or slips. I was going to ask to see his hooves to see if he was shod incorrectly but after that video and at the age of 6, I'd get the vets involved. I'd have said it's schooling too, but he's not actually that bad.


----------



## Zuzzie (19 August 2020)

I agree with BBP.  He might not be the most forward going horse but he is not lazy to the extent of tripping as he did in the video.  My horse has coffin joint arthritis - had it for years.  He trips now and then (comes out of nowhere and sometimes quite violent) so he wears knee boots.  I keep my reins short and ride him forward into the rein so that he does have to use himself.  But my horse is 26 - not 6! Definitely needs to be looked at by an experienced vet. Good luck with him.


----------



## holeymoley (19 August 2020)

I replayed the video a few times. To me it looks like he takes a couple of lame steps on the turn. At 6 I'd like to think not,  but he almost looks arthritic.


----------



## ester (19 August 2020)

Another one to agree that the trip was bigger than I was expecting, he didn't extend that hoof to land it at all. Keep us updated on the vet situation and definitely show them the video.

I think your plan for now is sensible, as much as anything because that sort of trip could injure you as much as him.


----------



## Tiddlypom (19 August 2020)

Good idea to involve a vet, but is this a good equine vet? Less good or experienced vets will faff around and use up all your insurance money, and still not have a clue what’s up.

If it’s only less good vets who can come out., it would be worth travelling to a proper vet at a horsepital.


----------



## Dyllymoo (19 August 2020)

Tiddlypom said:



			Good idea to involve a vet, but is this a good equine vet? Less good or experienced vets will faff around and use up all your insurance money, and still not have a clue what’s up.

If it’s only less good vets who can come out., it would be worth travelling to a proper vet at a horsepital.
		
Click to expand...

They are a renowned vet practice and the one that other vets send to.  Unfortunately I don't know any of the vets currently there, but we will see who we meet next week I guess.


----------



## Pearlsasinger (19 August 2020)

Dyllymoo said:



			Thank you all.  Vet is booked for next Tuesday for a lameness/ orthopaedic exam.  Earliest date they could do.  They want me to keep him in work so I will probably ride and long rein in the school as now I'm paranoid he will go down again and hurt himself.  At least in there would be more of a soft landing  (note:  he has only gone down once, but I understand that it could happen again)
		
Click to expand...


Please do be careful, he could hurt not just himself but you too.  I would stick to riding in walk, so that if he trips he can catch himself before he goes down.

Fingers crossed a good vet finds something minor that is easily fixed.


----------



## Melody Grey (20 August 2020)

Agree with others that it’s a significant ‘fall’ rather than a ‘trip’.
I’d be thinking a lameness work up with neurological tests.
I wouldn’t be getting back on until I’d got some kind of explanation, but I’d work him from the ground instead.
Fingers crossed it’s something straight forward


----------



## Polos Mum (20 August 2020)

Good plan OP, I'm another who thought he took quite a few lame steps on the corner before the poles - his head nods quite a lot if you look closely at the vid. The field is flat, given the weather nice a soft but not slippy so perfect going. 

Definitely get on with massive weight loss programme, whether it's lami, arthritis or just laziness shedding the pounds will really help.


----------



## TPO (20 August 2020)

Good news that you have an appointment and a good vet involved.

I'd second (or third) not riding him. That was a pretty severe "trip" and almost out of nowhere so youd have no time to bail etc. Personally I'd stick to longreining in walk u til the vet has seen him


----------



## ycbm (20 August 2020)

Another one who thinks he's unsound on the corner,  sorry    It's good that you have a vet coming.   I would be asking the vet to block out one front foot,  and I'd be reasonably confident that would make him show up lame on the other one.  It doesn't matter which foot,  he's likely to be equally lame on both.  I'd be looking to get his shoes off sooner rather than later so he can correct any imbalance that might be causing the issues. You might well find,  as it's been caught very early,  that he improves immediately.  I hope it's something that simple,  fingers crossed for you.  
.


----------



## cobgoblin (20 August 2020)

I've watched the video several times and at the risk of sounding daft.. His front feet seem a bit 'flappy'. Sorry for the ahem technical term. 
Are his heels really short? Could the lack of support be throwing his balance?


----------



## Dyllymoo (21 August 2020)

Thanks all.

Funnily I spoke to my farrier yesterday. I didnt tell him about going to the vets as I didn't want him to think i was nuts. Basically I've already been told by someone on the yard im silly for going to the vet so I'm just going to keep it quiet until we have been and see whats what.

Anyway the farrier said we should take his shoes off when he is due (31st august) and see how he goes. He said he thinks he will be fine. Obviously that is subject to what the vet finds.

I'm dreading it if im honest. Last time I went to the vet with my horse on my own it was the news I knew was coming. I begged people to come with me and no one would so I was on my own crying for ages in the car park and the journey home.... hopefully it won't be bad news ☹


----------



## Mule (21 August 2020)

Dyllymoo said:



			Thanks all.

Funnily I spoke to my farrier yesterday. I didnt tell him about going to the vets as I didn't want him to think i was nuts. Basically I've already been told by someone on the yard im silly for going to the vet so I'm just going to keep it quiet until we have been and see whats what.

Anyway the farrier said we should take his shoes off when he is due (31st august) and see how he goes. He said he thinks he will be fine. Obviously that is subject to what the vet finds.

I'm dreading it if im honest. Last time I went to the vet with my horse on my own it was the news I knew was coming. I begged people to come with me and no one would so I was on my own crying for ages in the car park and the journey home.... hopefully it won't be bad news ☹
		
Click to expand...

I hope it won't be bad news either. It may be something easily sorted. It's not time to be thinking the worst.


----------



## PictusSweetDreams (21 August 2020)

I may be wrong (please correct me if I am) but he looks to have hyperextension in his front right fetlock (One furthest away from camera)

I hope all goes well with the vet visit, that’s a heck of a trip!


----------



## Dyllymoo (21 August 2020)

PictusSweetDreams said:



			I may be wrong (please correct me if I am) but he looks to have hyperextension in his front right fetlock (One furthest away from camera)

I hope all goes well with the vet visit, that’s a heck of a trip!
		
Click to expand...

Absolutely no idea.  Which is why this post is making me worry as so many are pointing out things and its such a worry.  I always thought I was good at spotting lameness/ issues but obviously not.

Roll on Tuesday


----------



## PictusSweetDreams (21 August 2020)

Dyllymoo said:



			Absolutely no idea.  Which is why this post is making me worry as so many are pointing out things and its such a worry.  I always thought I was good at spotting lameness/ issues but obviously not.

Roll on Tuesday 

Click to expand...

I know it’s easier said than done but try not to panic just yet. It could be something really simple, I’ve known horses trip badly from ill fitting saddles!


----------



## Dyllymoo (21 August 2020)

PictusSweetDreams said:



			I know it’s easier said than done but try not to panic just yet. It could be something really simple, I’ve known horses trip badly from ill fitting saddles!
		
Click to expand...

I know.  Thing is he has only tripped like that once.  Yes he trips a fair bit when ridden but not that bad and has only gone down once.  BUT I know getting him checked will at least put my mind at rest. Glad I pushed for an earlier date really as this is stressing me out!


----------



## holeymoley (21 August 2020)

Tell whoever said that you were silly for going to the vet, to jog on. If it was their horse tripping like that and they were happy to leave it as it was, it says more about them. Good on you for involving the vet. It could be something fairly simple such as hoof balance or something treatable with joint injections, who knows, hopefully the vet will find the answer, no point worrying about it just now x


----------



## Dyllymoo (21 August 2020)

OK so thinking about the visit on Tuesday, obviously I'm not going in to tell the vet what to do and how to do their job however what things would you want done as a minimum.

I would hate to come away wishing I had asked for something to be done.


----------



## holeymoley (21 August 2020)

Basically a trot up to see if they see any lameness, I’d also show that video and say it’s a regular occurrence. Vet will probably then suggest nerve blocks.


----------



## Dyllymoo (21 August 2020)

holeymoley said:



			Basically a trot up to see if they see any lameness, I’d also show that video and say it’s a regular occurrence. Vet will probably then suggest nerve blocks.
		
Click to expand...

Ah ok. Its not a lameness work up but I'm sure they will trot up anyway. The video isn't a regular occurrence though but I will show it to them. Thanks though


----------



## Pearlsasinger (21 August 2020)

Dyllymoo said:



			Thanks all.

Funnily I spoke to my farrier yesterday. I didnt tell him about going to the vets as I didn't want him to think i was nuts. Basically I've already been told by someone on the yard im silly for going to the vet so I'm just going to keep it quiet until we have been and see whats what.

Anyway the farrier said we should take his shoes off when he is due (31st august) and see how he goes. He said he thinks he will be fine. Obviously that is subject to what the vet finds.

I'm dreading it if im honest. Last time I went to the vet with my horse on my own it was the news I knew was coming. I begged people to come with me and no one would so I was on my own crying for ages in the car park and the journey home.... hopefully it won't be bad news ☹
		
Click to expand...


You poor thing¬!  Where are you can't we find a HHO-er to accompany you?  
He will most likely be fixable though - fingers crossed!


----------



## Pearlsasinger (21 August 2020)

Dyllymoo said:



			Absolutely no idea.  Which is why this post is making me worry as so many are pointing out things and its such a worry.  I always thought I was good at spotting lameness/ issues but obviously not.

Roll on Tuesday 

Click to expand...


Tbh, I just thought he needed riding more 'up together' before I saw the actual 'trip'.  If he does that often, I would want the vet to check him.


----------



## Buster2020 (21 August 2020)

The problem is that tripping could mean anything. It literally could just mean he is just not paying attention to  where he is going.   It wouldn’t  surprise me if it is a mild laminitis. The problem is once a vet sees a overweight horse they usually blame it on the horses weight and  they don’t look at the bigger picture.

Edit don’t listen to the people who  are saying you’re silly . It so important  to get a horse check by a vet if you having a problem.


----------



## Tiddlypom (21 August 2020)

Dyllymoo said:



			Ah ok. Its not a lameness work up but I'm sure they will trot up anyway. The video isn't a regular occurrence though but I will show it to them. Thanks though 

Click to expand...

I thought it was a work up, but at your yard?

I’d expect nerve blocks to be in the armoury to be used at the visit if the vet thinks they will help.


----------



## Ish2020 (21 August 2020)

To be honest to me it looks like he is just overweight  and not wanting to go forward. It just looks like he is  to busy fighting with you  trying not to go forward and no paying attention to what he is doing and he is tripping as a result.  I would just get him checked  by a vet just Incase but I say  you won’t have much luck with the vet . It looks more behavior to me than a  physical issues.


----------



## Dyllymoo (21 August 2020)

Tiddlypom said:



			I thought it was a work up, but at your yard?

I’d expect nerve blocks to be in the armoury to be used at the visit if the vet thinks they will help.
		
Click to expand...

They have called it an orthopaedic workup. So unless they have changed what they called a lameness work up (which is possible as its been 2 years since I did one of those!) Then I thought maybe it would be slightly different. 

I'm going to the vets as i knew I would get an appointment earlier.


----------



## Dyllymoo (21 August 2020)

Pearlsasinger said:



			You poor thing¬!  Where are you can't we find a HHO-er to accompany you? 
He will most likely be fixable though - fingers crossed!
		
Click to expand...

Thank you but due to covid only one person allowed per horse.


----------



## Tiddlypom (21 August 2020)

Good call to take him to the vets. Do show them the video and mention the other times that he’s tripped.

Very best of luck. I’m hopeful like others that it’s something pretty minor that can soon be sorted.

Orthopaedic workup sounds like a posh name for a lameness workup.


----------



## ester (21 August 2020)

Yup at the vets it is much easier to go whatever route the tests start to take you in.


----------



## Tiddlypom (21 August 2020)

Just thinking ahead re visits to vets during Covid, it might be a good idea to forward to the vets a link to the tripping video (or any other videos) in advance of the appointment.

It might not be easy to hand them your phone for them to view it when you are there, they might be wary of handling clients items unnecessarily. I could not be with my horse for the lameness check when I took her to the vets two weeks ago, I had to hand her over in the car park and wait in the car. The vet did keep me well updated, though.


----------



## BBP (21 August 2020)

Dyllymoo said:



			They have called it an orthopaedic workup. So unless they have changed what they called a lameness work up (which is possible as its been 2 years since I did one of those!) Then I thought maybe it would be slightly different. 

I'm going to the vets as i knew I would get an appointment earlier.
		
Click to expand...

It’s a fancy name for lameness workup, just means any sort of musculoskeletal investigation really, so you’ll get the classic trot ups, lunge, flexions and blocks, and whatever else you can do. 

My vets said they had a drop off policy during Covid and then they wanted the owner to leave, but I drove a long way and it was very quiet, so they let me stay in the horse box, and then to come out to watch the trot ups etc. Usually they would let me go in to watch the ultrasound or whatever but obviously that can’t happen now. 

Mine did that annoying thing at the vets where they trot up perfectly, which is more frustrating than if they look super lame as the vets can’t block anything.


----------



## splashgirl45 (21 August 2020)

i was quite shocked at that trip and wouldnt be riding him again until investigations are done. hope you get some answers at the vets


----------



## Dyllymoo (22 August 2020)

I've emailed the vet and asked about the video so should hear back Monday.

I've decided not to ride until the vets.

I did ride Thursday in the school and he was foot perfect but I'm worried about doing it now and would never forgive myself if something happened.


----------



## splashgirl45 (22 August 2020)

glad you have decided to stop riding till the vet,  apart from him hurting himself you will be injured if he falls on you so please be careful..


----------



## Dyllymoo (25 August 2020)

Vets this morning. Only just home so that shows how well it went 

Briefly, walk and trot in straight line and lunging in school/hard ground showed up 0.5-1/10 lame on left front.

Neuro exam showed he dragged his left foot when asked to step back and had an "odd" action on it in trot (almost slightly twisting it out but subtle).

Xrays of his neck showed slight arthritic changes.

Scan of his neck confirmed the above..left worse than right. They are slight changes and they have said they cannot guarantee that is why he is tripping/stumbling.

Options: 1) medicate and see how we go  2) CT scan.

I've opted for option 2 as he is insured but I am worried about the general anesthetic.

Outcome may still be to medicate but vet was reluctant to discuss outcomes without the CT first.

Keeping his shoes on as she said she did want to investigate the lameness after ct etc is done.

So all in all im absolutely broken.

I hope the referral for the ct comes ASAP as I feel sick.

The 3 vets he saw were astounded as he didn't need sedating for any of the xrays/scans and was a gentleman throughout. Makes my heart hurt even more as he is such a sweet boy.

There we go. Wish I could be wrong about horses for once.


----------



## Wheels (25 August 2020)

Try not to worry too much before you get the results of the CT - do you know when that will be?

My friends horse has arthritic changes in the neck and some neuro symptoms as a result but she is still training high level dressage with him and medicates the neck when required.


----------



## Tiddlypom (25 August 2020)

Oof, that’s a lot to take in.

I hope that you get the CT slot soon, and that it sheds more light on what‘s happening, and that he responds to medication.

Well done for ignoring the yard busy bodies and getting him checked out properly, so many would have ignored the signs and kept going.

Horses .


----------



## Dyllymoo (25 August 2020)

I've no idea when the ct will be. We need to be referred to the Royal veterinary hospital.

I'm just exhausted. He has just turned 6 FFS. I literally can't catch a break with horses.


----------



## Pearlsasinger (25 August 2020)

I am sorry it wasn't better news.


----------



## holeymoley (25 August 2020)

What a rubbish day for you. At least there is some root cause that can be explored and hopefully you can get to the bottom of it. Did they shed anymore light on the lameness or are they stemming that from the neck?


----------



## Dyllymoo (25 August 2020)

holeymoley said:



			What a rubbish day for you. At least there is some root cause that can be explored and hopefully you can get to the bottom of it. Did they shed anymore light on the lameness or are they stemming that from the neck?
		
Click to expand...

They think possibly from the neck but they will investigate that after the ct scan and after he has been medicated.


----------



## ForeverBroke_ (25 August 2020)

Sorry it wasn't better news 

At least you followed your gut and didn't listen to any 'experts,' and are on the road to getting your boy sorted. He's young, so hopefully that will put him in a good position and you've started to get on top of things quickly. I hope the CT scan comes around quickly for you. Big hugs xox


----------



## meleeka (25 August 2020)

So he’s currently 1/10th lame and has slight arthritic changes? That’s probably the same as a large proportion of leisure horses in this country! Do try not to worry.
Hopefully it’s something that can be treated easily.  He’s lucky that he has such a caring owner who thought to investigate.
Plenty of people would have just called him lazy.


----------



## Mrs. Jingle (25 August 2020)

I agree with Meleeka. Obviously not great news but IMO not the worse, in spite of him being very young still, early arthritic changes are not that unusual in horses and ponies of similar age and very often they go through years of work without those early changes making very much difference to them, or increasing the lameness issue.

Sadly not all owners are as vigilant as you are though, and the fact he is tripping, and tripping quite badly I think has to be investigated for both your safety and his. 

Did your vet mention any chance of an upper body unknown injury (field accident etc.) - in perhaps the shoulder or wither area?  I am by no means a vet so this is just a lay person perspective.  I had a youngish cob who presented very similar to yours - very, very low level lameness on right front and definitely showed as dragging it in the school, sort of not enough lift to it if you see what I mean.  

Anyway ,many £s later it was sort of narrowed down to a problem in his shoulder area that side - but no real evidence to back that up. He went on bute trial and was fine whilst on it, but reverted to low level lameness and 'drag' a few days after stopping bute.  I was fortunate enough to have my own land and another horse to ride so in the end I just turned him out for a few months that winter and when I brought him back into work in the spring he was as sound as a pound and I had him for several more years with no sign of any lameness again. 

We don't always get a definitive reason even after lots of investigation but it doe snot always mean it is going to be a major life changing event for them. Try and stay positive and everything crossed for a good outcome.


----------



## ester (25 August 2020)

Thanks for updating, iirc it was the left on the video that didn't extend and he tripped on which is interesting given the neuro findings so far. 
It's a lot to take on at this point, it is crap but you know you have done absolutely the right thing for your horse by raising this.


----------



## ycbm (25 August 2020)

Oh stuff.  Hopefully the neck will be nothing to do with it,  a vet recently said that they are seeing 50% of neck x rays with changes on them and most of those aren't affecting the horse.  And then hopefully the lameness will be a minor foot imbalance.  

Sorry it didn't go better
.


----------



## Dyllymoo (25 August 2020)

Does anyone know the process for starting the insurance claim?

Do I need to tell them before we go to the referral appointment for the ct scan?

Thanks for all your kind words. Im trying not to think too much until we go for the ct scan.


----------



## doodle (25 August 2020)

Yes contact them now and start a claim.


----------



## Melody Grey (25 August 2020)

Dyllymoo said:



			Does anyone know the process for starting the insurance claim?

Do I need to tell them before we go to the referral appointment for the ct scan?

Thanks for all your kind words. Im trying not to think too much until we go for the ct scan.
		
Click to expand...

In my experience, larger vet practices will process the claim for you, you’ll just have to fill out the owners section of the claim form and they may do the rest.

sorry it wasn’t better news, but you’ve listened to your horse and prevented a potential accident for both of you, so go easy on yourself for that at least.


----------



## Tiddlypom (25 August 2020)

Let the insurance company know now.

You will be asked the date of the start of the issue. As his symptoms been so vague, maybe date it from the day of the video of him stumbling. It is perfectly reasonable to say you that wanted him checked over by the vets after that.


----------



## Apercrumbie (25 August 2020)

So sorry OP, this stuff is never fun and particularly when they're young.

I only just saw this post but would have suggested checking the neck for arthritic changes - that's what caused my old Welsh D to start tripping quite badly. At first we just thought it was a laid back boy not picking up his feet properly but it soon became clear that it was something more. He also went down on his knees a couple of times.

Due to his age, the vet's suggestion was to strategically use danilon on days we rode for a trial period with the aim of getting him moving as comfortably as possible. It worked pretty well actually in that he needed far less pain relief after the trial period as the increased movement had helped the arthritis enough to make him that bit more comfortable. There would be different treatment options in a younger horse so I am hopeful of a good prognosis for you. Best of luck and keep us updated.


----------



## Buster2020 (25 August 2020)

Op make sure you insurance actually covers what your getting done. I actually thought my insurance covers vet bills but it didn’t it only covers  if it life or death bills.  Unfortunately you didn’t have much luck when it came to the vet majority of normal horses would  be 1/10 lame  anyway according to my brother who is a vet.


----------



## splashgirl45 (25 August 2020)

sorry that he has problems but well done for listening to him and jgnoring the people who said he was just lazy...hope you get a reasonable outcome so you can continue to ride and he is comfortable..


----------



## ester (25 August 2020)

I know people are saying 1/10 lame isn't much/lots of horses are that lame but if it's neuro the degree of lameness isn't the main takeaway/significant info at this stage


----------



## milliepops (25 August 2020)

ester said:



			I know people are saying 1/10 lame isn't much/lots of horses are that lame but if it's neuro the degree of lameness isn't the main takeaway/significant info at this stage
		
Click to expand...

This
My neuro horse presents very slightly lame but we kind of ignore that because its a side effect of whats going on in her neck rather than a leg issue.  (She's no longer ridden).

Sorry you had such a rubbish day OP x


----------



## Dyllymoo (26 August 2020)

My mare was 1/10 lame when she went to the vets 4 times... eventually we went to Sue Dyson and she was diagnosed with PSD in both hinds, sacroiliac issues and negative rotation of both pedal bones in her front feet..... 

1/10 lame to me feels like crippled  

I'm absolutely heartbroken today and I'm 100% giving up horses.  J can be retired or whatever to be kept comfortable but the whole 7 years I have actually owned a horse (3 in that time) all of them have had medical issues that as much as I try I cant fix.

All 3 of them have been amazing horses in their own rights, with amazing personalities and honestly I'm now completely broken myself.


----------



## doodle (26 August 2020)

They break your heart. I lost 2 in 7 months. I then bought the wrong horse and had to sell again. Luckily then got Robin but he will be my last. I love having a horse but things going wrong too hard to bear. So hopefully it will be in years time but he won’t be replaced.


----------



## Reacher (26 August 2020)

Sorry it’s not good news, especially for such a young horse. Hope the CT scan sheds light on the matter and that he can be medicated appropriately. 
You have had a tough time with your horses 🙁 Try and take care of yourself.


----------



## Dyllymoo (28 August 2020)

I've got the date for the CT at RVC. He is going in on Wednesday afternoon, CT on Thursday and then home Friday morning.

I'm going to miss his little face so much but I'm so pleased we have a date now.

Then we can know exactly what we are dealing with and make a plan


----------



## splashgirl45 (28 August 2020)

fingers crossed for you


----------



## Tiddlypom (28 August 2020)

Glad that you haven’t got too long to wait.

Fingers firmly crossed for a good outcome.


----------



## Lady Jane (28 August 2020)

angrybird1 said:



			He doesn't look quite sound to me.
		
Click to expand...

I didn't want to be the one to say that, but I thought there were a few unlevel steps


----------



## Tiddlypom (28 August 2020)

Lady Jane said:



			I didn't want to be the one to say that, but I thought there were a few unlevel steps
		
Click to expand...

Keep up .


----------



## Dyllymoo (1 September 2020)

This is the xray from the report from my vets... I didn't even realise it was at the bottom of the report until my OH pointed it out!  Just for information if anyone is interested really:




We are set to travel to RVC tomorrow afternoon and then pick up will be either Thursday evening but more than likely Friday morning (due to the general anesthetic and making sure he is eating/ drinking etc.).


----------



## Pinkvboots (1 September 2020)

I am sorry its not a better outcome hopefully you will get some more answers and a plan of action fingers crossed for you!
They are brilliant at the rvc I only live 15 mins away and have been loads of times, be sure to give the cafe a visit the foods quite good.


----------



## ycbm (1 September 2020)

Dyllymoo said:



			This is the xray from the report from my vets... I didn't even realise it was at the bottom of the report until my OH pointed it out!  Just for information if anyone is interested really:

View attachment 54290


We are set to travel to RVC tomorrow afternoon and then pick up will be either Thursday evening but more than likely Friday morning (due to the general anesthetic and making sure he is eating/ drinking etc.).
		
Click to expand...


The vets here are reporting masses of cases of C5/6 issues, and i have a friend who has recently got LoU due to it on her horse.  And of course my own recently  was C4/5, 5/6 and 6/7. I'm so sorry it wasn't something more easily fixable.
.


----------



## Dyllymoo (1 September 2020)

ycbm said:



			The vets here are reporting masses of cases of C5/6 issues, and i have a friend who has recently got LoU due to it on her horse.  And of course my own recently  was C4/5, 5/6 and 6/7. I'm so sorry it wasn't something more easily fixable.
.
		
Click to expand...

Unfortunately (I never learn!) I didn't get LoU on my insurance for J. Oh well... live and never learn, but he is my last anyway so no need to get another!

I've been told "its very common" by lots of people on the yard, but I'm waiting to see what the CT shows really as that's when we will get a clearer picture.  I have a rehab specialist, physio, chiro, red light therapist and acupuncturist on standby!


----------



## Jeni the dragon (2 September 2020)

I hope tomorrow goes okay for you.


----------



## Michen (2 September 2020)

Massive hugs.


----------



## Dyllymoo (2 September 2020)

Dropped him off this afternoon. He travelled like a pro even when we got stuck in traffic.

Tomorrow is going to feel like a long day 😞 

Photo a friend took for me 💙😍


----------



## milliepops (2 September 2020)

awww lovely photo.  
be kind to yourself while you are waiting, have you got some nice things to do so you aren't stewing about it?


----------



## Dyllymoo (2 September 2020)

milliepops said:



			awww lovely photo. 
be kind to yourself while you are waiting, have you got some nice things to do so you aren't stewing about it?
		
Click to expand...

Back to work tomorrow so at least thats something.


----------



## Roxylola (2 September 2020)

What a lovely photo. Take care of yourself x


----------



## Lurfy (3 September 2020)

Fingers crossed for you, he is so pretty.


----------



## alibali (3 September 2020)

Fingers crossed for you both, he looks a lot like my wonderful old boy sadly long departed.


----------



## meleeka (3 September 2020)

Thinking of you today x


----------



## Wheels (3 September 2020)

That is a beautiful photograph

good luck with everything today, I hope you get answers and some good news


----------



## QuantockHills (3 September 2020)

nothing to add except good luck. Am following with interest as my young ID has fallen a few times like yours has... he's very big and clumsy though and i'm hoping he'll grow out of it....


----------



## Dyllymoo (3 September 2020)

He is up and awake and all images have been sent to my vet to look at and report on.

I'm picking him up tonight (M25 in rush hour, using the Dartford crossing.... fun times!).

My vet have advised 48/72 hours before I get a report which is super frustrating as that will be Monday at the earliest.  Surely they could call me to talk me through the results, the same as they would do if I had taken him in there for the CT.


----------



## milliepops (3 September 2020)

sometimes the delay is because scans need to be read by a radiologist. same if you have one in hospital yourself, there's sometimes a delay depending on the availability of a specialist being around to look at the images and write the report.  I would imagine that's a contributory factor.


----------



## Dyllymoo (3 September 2020)

milliepops said:



			sometimes the delay is because scans need to be read by a radiologist. same if you have one in hospital yourself, there's sometimes a delay depending on the availability of a specialist being around to look at the images and write the report.  I would imagine that's a contributory factor.
		
Click to expand...

Doesn't help the frustration I'm afraid and the very rude receptionist who didn't seem to care.


----------



## milliepops (3 September 2020)

Dyllymoo said:



			Doesn't help the frustration I'm afraid and the very rude receptionist who didn't seem to care.
		
Click to expand...

no I'm sure it doesn't.  Maybe she thought it would have been explained to you beforehand


----------



## Dyllymoo (3 September 2020)

milliepops said:



			no I'm sure it doesn't.  Maybe she thought it would have been explained to you beforehand 

Click to expand...

Possibly.  I wasn't rude to her as I did think "she is just doing her job", but I had a little cry at my desk!

Anyway, need to just look forward to picking him up and giving him a cuddle


----------



## Melody Grey (3 September 2020)

milliepops said:



			sometimes the delay is because scans need to be read by a radiologist. same if you have one in hospital yourself, there's sometimes a delay depending on the availability of a specialist being around to look at the images and write the report.  I would imagine that's a contributory factor.
		
Click to expand...

They are often read by independent specialists who don’t work on site too in my experience.


----------



## milliepops (3 September 2020)

Melody Grey said:



			They are often read by independent specialists who don’t work on site too in my experience.
		
Click to expand...

yeah my practice sends them abroad to be read out of hours sometimes if no UK cover available. think a friend's was done in Aus.


----------



## Dyllymoo (3 September 2020)

They are read on site as they are a referral practice (the only reason he was sent to RVC was because the CT they have isn't big enough to do his lower neck).  We will see I guess.


----------



## milliepops (3 September 2020)

hopefully that will reduce delays to a minimum then   Mine is a referral practice too but they still don't do all theirs.  fingers crossed you hear sooner rather than later, must be a horrible wait.


----------



## Dyllymoo (3 September 2020)

Its just the not knowing at the minute.  Its almost like we are so close, but just nowehere near.  Very frustrating.  I'm sure they aren't doing it on purpose so will just wait and see what they say.


----------



## Dyllymoo (3 September 2020)

Home safe and sound 🥰

My vet has said the report will be ready tomorrow (she spoke to the specialist) and she will call me to go through it. Phew!


----------



## BBP (3 September 2020)

Dyllymoo said:



			Home safe and sound 🥰

My vet has said the report will be ready tomorrow (she spoke to the specialist) and she will call me to go through it. Phew!
		
Click to expand...

I’ll keep my fingers crossed for you. My horse had neuro workup today and lined up for more vet stuff next week, so I feel your pain (although I’m not insured).


----------



## Lurfy (3 September 2020)

It might be handy Dyllymoo to write down anything you might want to ask the vet so you don't forget when they ring you. I find I can get overwhelmed with information and my brain just stops and I forget basic things I wanted to know. Anyway good luck tomorrow, not long now xxx


----------



## Dyllymoo (4 September 2020)

Yes I've done a list but they are generic questions as we don't know how bad the changes are I guess.

I have:

1) Prognosis?
2) Plan going forward? (workload, medicate etc.)
3) Lameness in left fore - investigate?


----------



## BBP (4 September 2020)

Dyllymoo said:



			Yes I've done a list but they are generic questions as we don't know how bad the changes are I guess.

I have:

1) Prognosis?
2) Plan going forward? (workload, medicate etc.)
3) Lameness in left fore - investigate?
		
Click to expand...

I don’t know how familiar you are with interviewing but the 5W+H is quite handy when interrogating your vet. What where when why who and how. ‘What do you mean? Why would that happen? How will it affect him? Who else can I talk to about this? How long will it take to see improvements/how long will medications last? All that sort of stuff, you get a lot more information from them. Also questions like ‘explain to me in detail...’ to get a bit of an idiots guide. Don’t just accept technical speak that you don’t understand.


----------



## Dyllymoo (4 September 2020)

BBP said:



			I don’t know how familiar you are with interviewing but the 5W+H is quite handy when interrogating your vet. What where when why who and how. ‘What do you mean? Why would that happen? How will it affect him? Who else can I talk to about this? How long will it take to see improvements/how long will medications last? All that sort of stuff, you get a lot more information from them. Also questions like ‘explain to me in detail...’ to get a bit of an idiots guide. Don’t just accept technical speak that you don’t understand.
		
Click to expand...

Thank you that's helpful.  Unfortunately I have had many calls about lameness issues so I know roughly the routes of the questions, but always good to be prepared. 

I'm actually over the initial shock of them finding something which is always where I normally falter, if I'm honest I'm prepared for the worst, not to say that's what will happen (and definitely not to say I will handle it well!), but I think that has helped me be a bit more methodical this time.  Third time's the charm!


----------



## splashgirl45 (4 September 2020)

good luck


----------



## Dyllymoo (4 September 2020)

So I've heard from the vet..... He has mild changes in c3/c4 and c4/c5. C5/c6 are moderate changes with the narrowing around the nerves but no compression which is good. 

Vet wants to medicate, give 2 weeks rest, then bring back into work but ground work only as she thinks its too dangerous to ride him. I asked how I would know if the medication worked as I have never seen him trip or stumble in hand only ridden. She said neuro tests (backing up and dragging left fore). She then said we would consider riding him.

She said if the medication won't work then he will be retired as too dangerous to ride him. So its not the worst news but not the best either. Just have to see how we go I guess xx


----------



## Pearlsasinger (4 September 2020)

Dyllymoo said:



			So I've heard from the vet..... He has mild changes in c3/c4 and c4/c5. C5/c6 are moderate changes with the narrowing around the nerves but no compression which is good.

Vet wants to medicate, give 2 weeks rest, then bring back into work but ground work only as she thinks its too dangerous to ride him. I asked how I would know if the medication worked as I have never seen him trip or stumble in hand only ridden. She said neuro tests (backing up and dragging left fore). She then said we would consider riding him.

She said if the medication won't work then he will be retired as too dangerous to ride him. So its not the worst news but not the best either. Just have to see how we go I guess xx
		
Click to expand...


As you say not the worst news and at least you have a plan now.  I hope it all goes well.


----------



## milliepops (4 September 2020)

Dyllymoo said:



			So I've heard from the vet..... He has mild changes in c3/c4 and c4/c5. C5/c6 are moderate changes with the narrowing around the nerves but no compression which is good.

Vet wants to medicate, give 2 weeks rest, then bring back into work but ground work only as she thinks its too dangerous to ride him. I asked how I would know if the medication worked as I have never seen him trip or stumble in hand only ridden. She said neuro tests (backing up and dragging left fore). She then said we would consider riding him.

She said if the medication won't work then he will be retired as too dangerous to ride him. So its not the worst news but not the best either. Just have to see how we go I guess xx
		
Click to expand...

hope you get good results with the medication. I chose not to medicate mine who is similar  but she's not my only horse so it was an easy decision, though disappointing,  to retire her.  it sounds like you've got a good plan going forward though and I'm so pleased you've got some concrete answers, although it's not brilliant news it's better than not really knowing what's going on and struggling through a problem.  will be keeping my fingers crossed for you  both x


----------



## Dyllymoo (4 September 2020)

Thanks both.

I'm really sad if im honest. 

MP can I ask why you didn't medicate?


----------



## milliepops (4 September 2020)

Dyllymoo said:



			Thanks both.

I'm really sad if im honest.

MP can I ask why you didn't medicate?
		
Click to expand...

I'm not surprised you're sad, it's a blow and we all worry so much about our equine friends x  I cried buckets when mine was diagnosed.

I didn't go ahead with the meds at this point partly because I'm a fairly ambitious competitive rider. I didn't really have an interest in continuing to ride & train a horse I knew was going to max out at a level that I would not find satisfying.  Realistically she was already at her limit despite having a really willing brain, she wasn't really able to progress further. And knowing that I enjoy training horses on up the levels, it didn't sit well to me, to press a horse in that way with a physical limitation.  For now she's super happy living out and not having any pressure put on her. I still have the option to medicate up my sleeve if she deteriorates but so far I've not seen any change for the worse so I'm choosing to just watch and wait.

If I was someone that enjoyed pottering around doing bits and bobs of light work and having a nice gentle  hack I'd totally have gone for it and she'd still be ridden now. it was an option but it just doesn't work for me personally, I have to be honest about what I want from my horses. she's not really a quiet hack anyway!  if things were different it would have been a good choice to go ahead with it. So I don't want to make it seem like I'm suggesting you shouldn't do it


----------



## Dyllymoo (4 September 2020)

milliepops said:



			I'm not surprised you're sad, it's a blow and we all worry so much about our equine friends x  I cried buckets when mine was diagnosed.

I didn't go ahead with the meds at this point partly because I'm a fairly ambitious competitive rider. I didn't really have an interest in continuing to ride & train a horse I knew was going to max out at a level that I would not find satisfying.  Realistically she was already at her limit despite having a really willing brain, she wasn't really able to progress further. And knowing that I enjoy training horses on up the levels, it didn't sit well to me, to press a horse in that way with a physical limitation.  For now she's super happy living out and not having any pressure put on her. I still have the option to medicate up my sleeve if she deteriorates but so far I've not seen any change for the worse so I'm choosing to just watch and wait.

If I was someone that enjoyed pottering around doing bits and bobs of light work and having a nice gentle  hack I'd totally have gone for it and she'd still be ridden now. it was an option but it just doesn't work for me personally, I have to be honest about what I want from my horses. she's not really a quiet hack anyway!  if things were different it would have been a good choice to go ahead with it. So I don't want to make it seem like I'm suggesting you shouldn't do it 

Click to expand...

Thank you. That's good to know. I was worried there were things I hadn't considered. J was only going to be a hack and light work kind of guy so I just hope he can do that.

I do worry that I maybe I should just stop whilst we are ahead and he can retire happy


----------



## milliepops (4 September 2020)

I can understand that but if the vets have indicated that its a good option then I'd give it a go, given what your aims are.


----------



## Equi (4 September 2020)

Im sorry you didn't get a clean slate but im also glad you actually found something as it makes it much easier. When i watched the video i knew exactly what leg he was going to trip on before he tripped, so whilst the neck has obvious changes don't let that over shadow other things, he may still have an issue in that near fore (or both) that if sorted would help the neck too.


----------



## BBP (4 September 2020)

I can understand the mixed emotions. It’s confusing, I had vet out yesterday to do neuro tests on mine as I didn’t feel they had assessed him thoroughly last time. He had a really reduced Panniculus reflex (the skin twitch like when flies land on them) and was super easy to pull across with the tail, and yet they still don’t see a need to X-ray neck or believe there is a neuro component, and yet yours only had a toe drag in rein back and your vets have been straight to X-ray and scan.


----------



## Dyllymoo (4 September 2020)

BBP said:



			I can understand the mixed emotions. It’s confusing, I had vet out yesterday to do neuro tests on mine as I didn’t feel they had assessed him thoroughly last time. He had a really reduced Panniculus reflex (the skin twitch like when flies land on them) and was super easy to pull across with the tail, and yet they still don’t see a need to X-ray neck or believe there is a neuro component, and yet yours only had a toe drag in rein back and your vets have been straight to X-ray and scan.
		
Click to expand...

You can always push for xrays if you want them. I pushed for my mare.

I think the toe drag plus constant stumbles and one fall to knees was the reason.


----------



## Dyllymoo (4 September 2020)

equi said:



			Im sorry you didn't get a clean slate but im also glad you actually found something as it makes it much easier. When i watched the video i knew exactly what leg he was going to trip on before he tripped, so whilst the neck has obvious changes don't let that over shadow other things, he may still have an issue in that near fore (or both) that if sorted would help the neck too.
		
Click to expand...

That is something but they feel the fact his left side in his neck is worse than right side and his issues are left leg mostly then its all connected.


----------



## Equi (4 September 2020)

Dyllymoo said:



			That is something but they feel the fact his left side in his neck is worse than right side and his issues are left leg mostly then its all connected.
		
Click to expand...

It very well could be. He could be compensating and all manner of things. I hope you can find a solution that helps him


----------



## Tiddlypom (5 September 2020)

At least you know now. I’d medicate him to give him the best chance of being a comfortable pasture ornament, with the hope that he can be ridden again.

I’ve just put had joints (not neck) medicated in two of mine with that in mind. Having one rideable Ned out of 3 would be nice...


----------



## milliepops (5 September 2020)

Dyllymoo said:



			That is something but they feel the fact his left side in his neck is worse than right side and his issues are left leg mostly then its all connected.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah i think this is fairly common.  Mine appears slightly lame at times but its symptom of the neck rather than a problem with the leg itself.


----------



## splashgirl45 (5 September 2020)

sorry its not better news but well done for investigating and taking no notice of the people who told you he was being naughty.  fingers crossed you will be able to ride him again in the future...good luck with his medication


----------



## Dyllymoo (7 September 2020)

J is booked in to have injections next Tuesday.  If a space becomes available this week they will let me know.  Then its 2 weeks rest and then start to bring him back into work and see how he goes.

I've done some research over the weekend and feel a little less low about everything but it will just be a case of we can only do what we can do, and I plan to do everything I can for him (supplements, in hand exercises, loosing weight - both of us!)…. so yes, lets see how we go.

Thank you everyone for your support on this, and for gently pushing me not to ignore the signs that I knew were there


----------



## Dyllymoo (8 September 2020)

Interesting note. J had physio today. She didn't do any manipulation but I trust her wholeheartedly (she saw my mare previously). 

She 100% believes the changes in his neck are related to his front feet (possibly just his left fore).

I'm getting his feet xrayed at the same time as his injections so we can see why he has the changes. She believes there is a reason and we need to find it rather than just patching up the issue.

She said his overall muscle was fab and he isn't showing any pain reactions other than having very poor mobility in his neck. 

Its interesting to hear what she was saying about how he stands as well.

Will be interesting to see if anything shows on the xrays


----------



## BBP (8 September 2020)

How does he stand?


----------



## Dyllymoo (8 September 2020)

BBP said:



			How does he stand?
		
Click to expand...

With his fronts slightly under him so he is almost too far over them


----------



## BBP (8 September 2020)

Ah, same as my pony was doing. Although mine was camped under front and back, goat on a rock style. It’s those little things that you don’t really notice happening, but once they come to your attention you won’t stop seeing it in horses everywhere.


----------



## Dyllymoo (8 September 2020)

BBP said:



			Ah, same as my pony was doing. Although mine was camped under front and back, goat on a rock style. It’s those little things that you don’t really notice happening, but once they come to your attention you won’t stop seeing it in horses everywhere.
		
Click to expand...

His back end is fine but front slightly off. Its not terrible but noticeable and he was uncomfortable when she put him in the right position and shifted back fairly quickly


----------



## Dyllymoo (10 September 2020)

Does anyone know of any correlation between neck issues and choke?

J had what I think was a minor episode last night, not massive amount of dribble/ discharge, but he was nodding his head slightly, obviously uncomfortable, didn't demand his hay as per usual.  He was lethargic and would box walk his stable, and sometimes make a grunting noise.

Vet came out and wasn't sure what it was.  Possible choke that has sorted itself out she thought and just maybe bruised his neck.  He has had bloods taken and had a painkiller last night.  Much perkier this morning and eating normally but he is still holding his head quite low.

I'm a little bit annoyed as Vet moved his neck around to the side (as I have seen a chiro do on previous horses) and I said "He is very sore in his neck and very stiff can you not do that", she smiled and said she was a chrio.  I said that's nice but he doesn't need that done.  This was after she had taken his history so knew about his neck.

Anyway, anyone know any correlation?  Obviously I will keep an eye on him but it just feels like it was sore for him to keep his neck up.


----------



## milliepops (10 September 2020)

more than likely just a coincidence I'd have thought. the One of mine had a little choke about a year ago and it was as you describe, a little bit dribbly, but mainly just a bit sad and occasionally grunty. not the normal full on spasms and drool.  it cleared itself but she was a bit miserable for a while.


----------



## Dyllymoo (10 September 2020)

milliepops said:



			more than likely just a coincidence I'd have thought. the One of mine had a little choke about a year ago and it was as you describe, a little bit dribbly, but mainly just a bit sad and occasionally grunty. not the normal full on spasms and drool.  it cleared itself but she was a bit miserable for a while.
		
Click to expand...

Okey doke that's good to know.  Just another expensive vet bill.


----------



## milliepops (10 September 2020)

never ending, sometimes, isn't it


----------



## Dyllymoo (10 September 2020)

milliepops said:



			never ending, sometimes, isn't it 

Click to expand...

It really is.  I'm physically and emotionally done at the minute


----------



## sbloom (10 September 2020)

Camping under with the front legs usually indicates heel pain which also correlates very highly with tripping.  It may well be that, now we more routinely xray necks, that we start to see that the heel pain causes either both directly, or some other linear route.


----------



## Dyllymoo (15 September 2020)

J had his steroid injection in his neck today. Only in c5/c6 and only on the left side.

Before all that he was walked and trotted up and lunged, they said he has shown no lameness where before he was 1/10.

Neuro tests. Still dragging left toe when asked to back up but intermittent and less than before.

I asked for xrays of his front feet which were done but I won't get the report until tomorrow. Vet kept saying she might be able to see much on the xrays, did I still want them and that the insurance wouldn't cover them as I have requested them.... even though its for the lameness/tripping that relates to the neck issues??!! Ugh!

2 weeks rest then vet said 1 week lunging and then I can start riding.

I won't lunge but will walk him in hand/long rein him.

He is such a good boy and stood stock still for nearly 2 hours when they did his feet xrays. No sedation again. Makes me sad I can't explain to him.

Vet said no guarantee he will be fixable. Guess we see what the xrays say and go from there.


----------



## Melody Grey (15 September 2020)

I’d seek clarification on whether you might get the x-rays paid for as part of your lameness investigation? I did in similar circumstances and I had suggested them, although my vet approved. 


Dyllymoo said:



			J had his steroid injection in his neck today. Only in c5/c6 and only on the left side.

Before all that he was walked and trotted up and lunged, they said he has shown no lameness where before he was 1/10.

Neuro tests. Still dragging left toe when asked to back up but intermittent and less than before.

I asked for xrays of his front feet which were done but I won't get the report until tomorrow. Vet kept saying she might be able to see much on the xrays, did I still want them and that the insurance wouldn't cover them as I have requested them.... even though its for the lameness/tripping that relates to the neck issues??!! Ugh!

2 weeks rest then vet said 1 week lunging and then I can start riding.

I won't lunge but will walk him in hand/long rein him.

He is such a good boy and stood stock still for nearly 2 hours when they did his feet xrays. No sedation again. Makes me sad I can't explain to him.

Vet said no guarantee he will be fixable. Guess we see what the xrays say and go from there.
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Dyllymoo (16 September 2020)

Vet sent the report at 11pm last night. I will.call today to ask what it means but I think she is saying that "nothing of concern" is there?

On examination there was mild ossification of the ungular (collateral) cartilages of the distal phalanx (coffin bone), more pronounced on the medial (inside) aspect of both feet. These changes are likely clinical insignificant and are seen in normal horses. In addition, there was a slight broken back hoof pastern axis, slight rotation of the second phalanx (short pastern bone) and mediolateral (side to side) imbalance, with more weight going through the medial (inside) aspect of the limb. These findings were more pronounced in the left forelimb than the right. Examination of the navicular bone did not show any significant abnormalities, with good corticomedullary definition.


----------



## Dyllymoo (16 September 2020)

Vet isn't in today, I've asked for another vet to call me (they only need to explain the above report to me)…. Just feel like I'm constantly in limbo with no real idea what is going on.


----------



## ihatework (16 September 2020)

Okay that report reads to me as ‘nothing major but intervene now to prevent problems developing’.
You’ve got unbalanced feet, with the left worse.


----------



## Dyllymoo (16 September 2020)

ihatework said:



			Okay that report reads to me as ‘nothing major but intervene now to prevent problems developing’.
You’ve got unbalanced feet, with the left worse.
		
Click to expand...

Thats what I thought but just not sure. 

So how do we intervene now? Im convinced if I don't sort his feet his neck problems won't get better and will get worse. I know his neck will degenerate but im hoping to delay it as long as possible


----------



## ihatework (16 September 2020)

Dyllymoo said:



			Thats what I thought but just not sure.

So how do we intervene now? Im convinced if I don't sort his feet his neck problems won't get better and will get worse. I know his neck will degenerate but im hoping to delay it as long as possible 

Click to expand...

You employ a very good farrier who can shoe and rebalance to X-ray


----------



## Lindylouanne (16 September 2020)

The majority of issues originate from the feet so the first thing I would do is find a very good Farrier who can sort out the balance and shoe to support the heel. Give it a few months and reassess.


----------



## Dyllymoo (16 September 2020)

Will speak to my farrier and see if he can help.  He is on our yard so best to speak to him first.  Thank you both


----------



## Tiddlypom (16 September 2020)

ihatework said:



			You employ a very good farrier who can shoe and rebalance to X-ray
		
Click to expand...

I wouldn’t be asking your current farrier to do it. Much of the imbalance could have been deduced without the x rays. Not a great job, sad to say, which is bit of a theme on HHO atm re hoof care professionals .


----------



## Pearlsasinger (16 September 2020)

I would want different farrier's opinion.  A good farrier shouldn't have needed x-rays to see that the feet are different.  You could ask your vet to recommend one, although they someone times won't do that but would suggest a short list.


----------



## Dyllymoo (16 September 2020)

Well I feel like I need to have a conversation with him at least so will do that.


----------



## Tiddlypom (16 September 2020)

I asked my vet re which farrier to use. Initially she was reluctant to do so, but I put her on the spot a bit as she told me what needed doing. I told her that I absolutely needed her recommendation as to who could do it correctly as opposed to making yet another balls up.


----------



## IrishMilo (16 September 2020)

I can't remember fully but did you say you had to keep this horse in shoes as it's a loan? Corrective shoeing is just one  of the options you have.


----------



## Dyllymoo (16 September 2020)

IrishMilo said:



			I can't remember fully but did you say you had to keep this horse in shoes as it's a loan? Corrective shoeing is just one  of the options you have.
		
Click to expand...

Nope, in fact I was thinking of taking him barefoot before we found his arthritis in his neck.  I didn't want to change anything until we had looked into everything.


----------



## IrishMilo (16 September 2020)

Dyllymoo said:



			Nope, in fact I was thinking of taking him barefoot before we found his arthritis in his neck.  I didn't want to change anything until we had looked into everything.
		
Click to expand...

I feel like I shout BAREFOOT all the time on this forum so don't think I have anything against shoes when they would actually benefit the horse... but with ossification and the arthritis in the neck, and possibly elsewhere, combined with the fact that he's in a very light workload, I would take the shoes off and get yourself a really good farrier who understands how to keep a barefoot horse, or a barefoot trimmer. I'd go with the latter just because that's what they specialise in, but there's obviously good and bad to both. 

I don't know of a scenario where letting the foot absorb as much concussion as possible is a bad thing. If you can sort out the imbalance and broken back HPA as much as possible that should help tonnes.


----------



## splashgirl45 (16 September 2020)

while taking shoes off may be a good idea, it seems that it is better for the horse to have his feet balanced properly and stay in shoes until everything else has settled.  why take shoes off with the chance of making him footsore as well as his other problems.  OP has said taking shoes off were an option previously and i agree its best to wait.  going without shoes does not solve everything....


----------



## Dyllymoo (16 September 2020)

I've spoken to my farrier.

My vets has recommended someone else. Im waiting to hear about him coming out.

My rehab physio has given me a rehab plan.

I'm soaking his hay as I'm so worried about laminitis due to the steroid injection and his weight.

I feel very over whelmed and I just want to get everything sorted so I know what the plan is.


----------



## Tiddlypom (16 September 2020)

You’re doing a great job . You’ve been thrown an unexpected curve ball and you are dealing with it well.

Glad that your vets have recommended a farrier. Sorting out his foot balance will be a big help to him. Soaking his hay is a good move, too.


----------



## Red-1 (16 September 2020)

I also agree that you are doing a great job. Many people would not even have involved the vet. You have done everything you can.

I hope the recommended farrier can rebalance the feet.


----------



## TPO (16 September 2020)

splashgirl45 said:



			while taking shoes off may be a good idea, it seems that it is better for the horse to have his feet balanced properly and stay in shoes until everything else has settled.  why take shoes off with the chance of making him footsore as well as his other problems.  OP has said taking shoes off were an option previously and i agree its best to wait.  going without shoes does not solve everything....
		
Click to expand...

What OP does is totally her call and I 100% understand why only one thing at a time should change but...

The hooves are unbalanced but have been made to "fit" onto a flat rim. If he were to go into boots and pads his whole hoof would be supported and using those EP pads would provide support while allowing the weaker/"good" side to start supporting more of the load as he is gradually learns to move as he should.

I'd hazard a guess that he has been compensating for a while. That means it's unlikely to be a quick fix and there nay be a step back every so often because as initial issues are addressed others that they have been hiding pop up.

Every chance I'm missing the obvious but I dont understand how a flat 3/4 rim of steel, a concussive material, helps. Even more so considering that is what has been happening up until now.

I think OP said a week or two of long reining  before ridden walk work. I'm the worlds slowest at everything but I'd personally be looking into some form of straightness training and look at the next 4-6wks as corrective posture training with shoes off and boots/pads so that every step is a comfortable step. Hooves and muscles have to be used correctly to develop but it had to be comfortable use. No benefit at all to have a horse tip toeing and changing stride pattern because they are feeling their feet.

I'd involve a good physio/bodyworker roo because ad his movement changes he will develop muscle quickly and might feel it a bit using muscles he hasnt for a while.

Personally I'd encourage some anthropomorphism and imagine that you are taking your own shoes off and starting weightlifting, cardio and pilates. You know it's possible because plenty of people live barefoot and do weightlifting etc but you can imagine how you would feel starting out so little and often kinds thing. I know it's not applicable here at all but so many people rush their horses after box rest, fitness plans or doing "corrective" work.


----------



## IrishMilo (17 September 2020)

splashgirl45 said:



			while taking shoes off may be a good idea, it seems that it is better for the horse to have his feet balanced properly and stay in shoes until everything else has settled.  why take shoes off with the chance of making him footsore as well as his other problems.  OP has said taking shoes off were an option previously and i agree its best to wait.  going without shoes does not solve everything....
		
Click to expand...

Everything else can't settle properly until the feet are balanced, and it's impossible for the foot to do that itself while it's nailed to a shoe - that's basically the long and short of it. Trimming a foot to fit a shoe essentially obliterates the natural shape and function. Going without shoes isn't going to reverse the arthritis but it's going to reduce impact of all the joints and provide a cushion of support that a shoe totally removes. This video is incredible at showing that: https://www.facebook.com/100008094679070/videos/pcb.2437661716513627/2437653816514417

Being footsore is a very short term problem to a long term solution and there are loads of ways to mitigate that - boots, pads, reduced workload, diet. Not every horse is footsore out shoes anyway - I've had three or four who've stepped out them and haven't even noticed.


----------



## Dyllymoo (17 September 2020)

I'm so confused 

I've messaged the farrier recommended and he has told me what he would do, which is fine.  I mentioned barefoot and he said its a good thing to do if the horse can cope.

I just don't know.  I want the best for him but feel like whatever I do I will question myself and him at every step.  I feel sick with anxiety today.


----------



## milliepops (17 September 2020)

I think if you've been recommended a farrier by your vet then in the first instance I'd be guided by them.
They've seen the horse, the x rays, they know you and what you can manage and provide by way of rehab.  a good farrier can shoe (if necessary) to x rays to rebalance the foot correctly so you don't have to go barefoot to achieve that, though there may be other reasons why it would be a good move.  In your position I'd let your professionals guide you on that.

Don't get overwhelmed. this seems to me like something you need to attack in bitesize pieces.  the changes in the neck have already happened and they aren't going to be reversed by going barefoot so if you aren't ready to take that on, I don't personally think you have to do that now with great urgency (nothing to stop you doing that later). you've got a lot going on. I would personally probably want to get the feet comfortable & correct in shoes so you can assess the results of the neck treatment without having to also allow for potential discomfort from whipping them off.   Yeah he might be fine without them, but he might also need quite a bit of input to get comfortable, and if you're dealing with that then you won't be able to see how he responds to the neck meds. which IIRC are the subject of an insurance claim, and therefore the clock is ticking on that.


----------



## Michen (17 September 2020)

milliepops said:



			I think if you've been recommended a farrier by your vet then in the first instance I'd be guided by them.
They've seen the horse, the x rays, they know you and what you can manage and provide by way of rehab.  a good farrier can shoe (if necessary) to x rays to rebalance the foot correctly so you don't have to go barefoot to achieve that, though there may be other reasons why it would be a good move.  In your position I'd let your professionals guide you on that.

Don't get overwhelmed. this seems to me like something you need to attack in bitesize pieces.  the changes in the neck have already happened and they aren't going to be reversed by going barefoot so if you aren't ready to take that on, I don't personally think you have to do that now with great urgency (nothing to stop you doing that later). you've got a lot going on. I would personally probably want to get the feet comfortable & correct in shoes so you can assess the results of the neck treatment without having to also allow for potential discomfort from whipping them off.   Yeah he might be fine without them, but he might also need quite a bit of input to get comfortable, and if you're dealing with that then you won't be able to see how he responds to the neck meds. which IIRC are the subject of an insurance claim, and therefore the clock is ticking on that.
		
Click to expand...

Agree with every bit of this. Of course you can re balance a foot whilst shoeing, albiet taking the shoes off can be a great way to let the foot to it itself.


----------



## Dyllymoo (17 September 2020)

Sorry I know I sound like a complete drama queen, I'm just so worried about causing more issues.

The farrier is coming back to me with costs and a date ASAP, I need to talk to current farrier and explain vet recommendation and go from there.  Its going to be very expensive but if it helps him it is worth it. Beans on toast has always been a favourite!

Thanks all… sorry to keep going over the same things


----------



## Lindylouanne (17 September 2020)

Dyllymoo please don’t worry and breathe. My little WB pony started tripping badly and was constantly lame while shod 5 years ago aged 5. His feet looked ok, his xrays were fine other than having thin soles, a natural foot imbalance which he had been born with and small side bones but it continued. In the end I had his shoes taken off and immediately even I could see the problems caused by the way he had been shod. Farrier was immediately sacked and I got Mark Johnson in to sort him out and he has been barefoot and never had a lame day because of his feet since. He isn’t a good candidate to be barefoot because of his thin soles but I’m careful with him and he is booted all round to be ridden in.

If your new farrier thinks BF might be good to start with to settle everything down it doesn’t mean you can’t go back to shoes at a later date but having seen how quickly it solved DP’s issues it is an option you have.


----------



## Michen (17 September 2020)

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this but... does he land flat/heel first/even? It's all very well x rays showing an imbalance but personally I'd be cautious about how much rebalancing you do, if the foot is already landing level.  Not to say none should be done, just that I'd watch really carefully that he doesn't then start to land outside first or whatnot.

I manage this with Bog through shoeing and barefoot combined btw, in that he has periods without shoes and is then shod to his "natural" wear pattern (which remains consistent). He will land outside first on his right fore if we try and trim/force him into a balanced looking hoof.. I slow mo video his feet at least once a month to keep an eye on it.

What's fascinating me about him is that as he's got older this seems to have become less of a problem, it's like he's straightened himself out. Who knows what caused it, maybe a strength thing. His heel height now for example is level, and he lands level. But he does have "more hoof" surface area (not sure if that even makes sense) on one side than the other on both front feet. he also grows some minor flares on the inside.


----------



## Dyllymoo (17 September 2020)

Michen said:



			I'm surprised no one has mentioned this but... does he land flat/heel first/even? It's all very well x rays showing an imbalance but personally I'd be cautious about how much rebalancing you do, if the foot is already landing level.  Not to say none should be done, just that I'd watch really carefully that he doesn't then start to land outside first or whatnot.

I manage this with Bog through shoeing and barefoot combined btw, in that he has periods without shoes and is then shod to his "natural" wear pattern (which remains consistent). He will land outside first on his right fore if we try and trim/force him into a balanced looking hoof.. I slow mo video his feet at least once a month to keep an eye on it.
		
Click to expand...

I will try and get some video of his landing tonight.


----------



## Michen (17 September 2020)

Dyllymoo said:



			I will try and get some video of his landing tonight.
		
Click to expand...

Yep I take mine by propping phone on floor against wall and walking him up and down, and also filming with me at the very end of the leadrope walking backwards as he comes towards me (if I don't have a helper!).

A good farrier will ask you to walk him towards him so that he can see for himself. A really good farrier if the landing is wonky will walk him up, trim a bit, walk him up again, trim a bit until that landing is improved (assuming it needs to be!).


----------



## Tiddlypom (17 September 2020)

IrishMilo said:



			Everything else can't settle properly until the feet are balanced, and it's impossible for the foot to do that itself while it's nailed to a shoe - that's basically the long and short of it
		
Click to expand...

Just to chip in. A good farrier can rebalance the foot while the horse is still in shoes, just like a crap barefoot trimmer can easily unbalance the unshod foot.

I have experience of both of those scenarios .

The most important thing is to get a good hoof care professional, and not rely on what qualifications an individual has. Sounds like Dyllymoo is on to it.


----------



## shamrock2021 (17 September 2020)

At least you found out what’s going on with your horse. Hopefully the medicine will work for him so you can ride him. it’s seems to be caught early which is good. Your horse is a overweight if you get him To lose some weight it could slow the damage to his neck.


----------



## IrishMilo (17 September 2020)

Tiddlypom said:



			Just to chip in. A good farrier can rebalance the foot while the horse is still in shoes, just like a crap barefoot trimmer can easily unbalance the unshod foot.

I have experience of both of those scenarios .

The most important thing is to get a good hoof care professional, and not rely on what qualifications an individual has. Sounds like Dyllymoo is on to it.
		
Click to expand...

I appreciate that and I've always said there are good and bad of both. I don't care whether someone uses a conventional farrier or a barefoot specialist.

My point is that adding thicker or thinner branches or wedges is never going to fix the root cause. I don't want this to turn into a barefoot vs. shod debate so I'm not going to say any more


----------



## milliepops (17 September 2020)

I'm not sure either will fix the root cause tbh as the horse has changes in his neck. the main thing will be to make sure his feet are comfortable and optimising his movement *one way or the other* to give the rest of his treatment & rehab the best chance of success.  

I just think sometimes barefoot is promoted on here as some kind of miracle thing but this horse's issues sort of go beyond the feet and I don't think the OP needs to stress out about one option over the other at this stage, being open minded is enough and there are more immediate things to concentrate on.


----------



## Tiddlypom (17 September 2020)

IrishMilo said:



			don't want this to turn into a barefoot vs. shod debate
		
Click to expand...

But you just have 🤷‍♂️.


----------



## Melody Grey (17 September 2020)

I recently had a similar dilemma in addressing balancing issues- whether to go with remedial shoeing or try barefoot. I went with remedial farriery on the basis that my insurance is paying and I couldn’t afford to attempt this approach without it.  I can however finance a Back to barefoot transition In The future if current approach doesn’t work.


----------



## Dyllymoo (17 September 2020)

Melody Grey said:



			I recently had a similar dilemma in addressing balancing issues- whether to go with remedial shoeing or try barefoot. I went with remedial farriery on the basis that my insurance is paying and I couldn’t afford to attempt this approach without it.  I can however finance a Back to barefoot transition In The future if current approach doesn’t work.
		
Click to expand...

This is the conversation I have had with myself. The new farrier is happy to support barefoot but did say he wouldn't come that far for that.

But I've decided to try remedial shoeing as its being advised by the vet and i don't want to cause any issues with insurance down the road.


----------



## ester (17 September 2020)

At this point, with his current issues I would have him shod in balance (as a pro barefoot person) 
Unless they absolutely stomp out of shoes they can do a fair bit of compensating and that isn't going to help right now with neck changes. 

Fwiw petplan said they would have paid for remedial trimming barefoot, but their T+Cs still say must be seen by farrier though that was a few years ago.


----------



## Dyllymoo (17 September 2020)

Slow mo of his feet landing. Probably need to be more level to the floor.


----------



## ester (17 September 2020)

you've done a better job than many, I think he is landing flat which I would be happy with in shoes. 
Totally wrong angle to tell properly but looks like might be a bit lateral on near fore.


----------



## splashgirl45 (17 September 2020)

.he looks to be landing better than i had expected,  good luck hope all goes well


----------



## Tiddlypom (17 September 2020)

That’s better than I was expecting, too .


----------



## Dyllymoo (18 September 2020)

Thanks everyone. New farrier is booked in for beginning of October. Hopefully we can sort him out with remedial shoeing and then in the future look at barefoot.


----------



## tallyho! (18 September 2020)

WHhops I posted and realised this is an old thread  with plans in action etc...


----------



## Dyllymoo (10 October 2020)

So J had his new shoes done yesterday. 

Photo is one of his fronts. His backs are just normal shoes however the farrier has said all 4 of his heels are collapsed and the hinds are worse than fronts. He has said we will shoe normally behind and see if his heels start to get better. If they don't he will need the same on the back.

He is also concerned there is something going on in his hind feet as well as fronts. I dont know whether to get his hinds xrayed or not.

He has also said he has seen something in his front feet xrays to do with his navicular bone. But he said he wants to send to a friend before saying anything.

He did his shoes and asked me to walk him up to him and he slow mo videoed. He said he needed to take some of the shoe balance down so rasped for a few seconds and we did it again. I watched the videos and honestly the difference was mad. He was inside of hoof first on the first and when the balance was adjusted he landed flat. If I hadn't of seen the videos I wouldn't of believed the difference!

It cost a lot of money as the farrier comes from a fair way but if it helps J then I dont care!


----------



## splashgirl45 (10 October 2020)

good luck, hope it works


----------



## Dyllymoo (26 October 2020)

I've started rehab with J on Saturday.  Hacking in walk for 20 mins a day until next weekend.  Making notes as I go (I.e. is he tired, tripping etc.).  

He is however slipping on his back legs on the road.  We have had road nails previously but farrier took them out for his new shoes as they can cause concussion etc. He doesn't do it with every step and I am careful where I put him on the road but this morning both legs slipped (left hind and then he couldn't get his balance and right hind went.  He managed to stay up but I'm getting concerned that this will not be good for his back end.  I cant hack in fields as he just gets full of himself, and the slipping is worse especially this time of year.  I feel a bit sad.

I literally have this sinking feeling that he isn't going to get better.  His arthritis will never go away so its not as if I'm trying to fix it, but this makes me so sad.  He may never come "right" or be able to hack low level even, and again that makes me sad.

He is such a kind hearted boy


----------



## Roxylola (26 October 2020)

Can you lead or long rein him for now? I dont think I'd want to be riding if hes that unbalanced. It might improve with work and strength


----------



## milliepops (26 October 2020)

I'd be inclined to ask farrier to review the road nails thing. 
I've had this discussion with OH about my gang in the past. IMO slipping over (or simply losing confidence in their footing, which then affects the way they move) is worse than the negative effect of the road nails. if you're in a slippy area then there's not much you can do other than mitigate it.

he might be able to pull out one of the normal nails and replace with a road nail so you don't have to go a whole shoeing cycle.


----------



## Meowy Catkin (26 October 2020)

Could you try without shoes on the hinds? I find that they slip less on tarmac when they are barefoot.


----------



## Dyllymoo (26 October 2020)

Meowy Catkin said:



			Could you try without shoes on the hinds? I find that they slip less on tarmac when they are barefoot.
		
Click to expand...

Unfortunately not due to his feet and arthritis.  Farrier will decide on 13th November if he requires the same padding and balance shoes as on the front.  

I will speak to the farrier about road nails.  His whole hack yesterday he didn't slip, but this morning he did on the same hack.  I did think it was due to the road surface as on Saturday he slipped a couple of times and the road/ tarmac is quite shiney.  now I just feel worried.


----------



## IrishMilo (26 October 2020)

Dyllymoo said:



			I literally have this sinking feeling that he isn't going to get better.  His arthritis will never go away so its not as if I'm trying to fix it, but this makes me so sad.  He may never come "right" or be able to hack low level even, and again that makes me sad.QUOTE]

It's the worst feeling ever. I'm so sorry you're in this position. He's very cute.
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Caol Ila (26 October 2020)

I just read this whole thread. So sorry that your lovely horse has all these medical issues.

Only thing I got is revisit the road nails issue. It improved my horse's way of going, as she was tight and tentative on downhill sections of road (there are some unavoidable ones), especially as the shoes wore down and lost grip. Post road nails, she's moving better and more balanced on the downhill tarmac, which means she feels better overall.


----------



## Dyllymoo (26 October 2020)

I've messaged my physio and she wants to see him  Poor J


----------



## Meowy Catkin (26 October 2020)

Dyllymoo said:



			Unfortunately not due to his feet and arthritis.  Farrier will decide on 13th November if he requires the same padding and balance shoes as on the front.
		
Click to expand...

Arthritis is no barrier. The reduction in concussion by removing the metal shoes could even be a benefit. I don't know what other issues he has with his hooves (I'm sure you've posted about it before but my brain is drawing a blank - sorry). Is he metabolically compromised?

Old video but still a good one.


----------



## Dyllymoo (26 October 2020)

Meowy Catkin said:



			Arthritis is no barrier. The reduction in concussion by removing the metal shoes could even be a benefit. I don't know what other issues he has with his hooves (I'm sure you've posted about it before but my brain is drawing a blank - sorry). Is he metabolically compromised?

Old video but still a good one.






Click to expand...

He has a balance issue in one front, farrier is querying his navicular, he has sidebone as well.  

Unfortunately its the amount of arthritic changes he has in his neck, and for such a young horse.  Its not good.  Physio, vet and farrier have all recommended leaving shoes on, sorting his feet issues first and then looking at barefoot but that it wont be overnight.

Cant see the video at work, will look tonight


----------



## milliepops (26 October 2020)

FWIW Dyllymoo i think that's the right approach, as I said before if you start a barefoot rehab at the same time as trying to sort all his other issues I think it will just muddy the waters and make it difficult to tell whether you're making progress or not.  Def may be something to keep up your sleeve for later but i know you're really struggling with all this and I think if you also end up having BF related problems it'll just become overwhelming. x


----------



## Dyllymoo (26 October 2020)

milliepops said:



			FWIW Dyllymoo i think that's the right approach, as I said before if you start a barefoot rehab at the same time as trying to sort all his other issues I think it will just muddy the waters and make it difficult to tell whether you're making progress or not.  Def may be something to keep up your sleeve for later but i know you're really struggling with all this and I think if you also end up having BF related problems it'll just become overwhelming. x
		
Click to expand...

Already overwhelmed unfortunately and feeling pretty low.  Thank you though, that's exactly the thoughts I think around it all.  If we change too much he just might not cope properly.


----------



## milliepops (26 October 2020)

Dyllymoo said:



			Already overwhelmed unfortunately and feeling pretty low.
		
Click to expand...

i can imagine. one step at a time.


----------



## Meowy Catkin (26 October 2020)

Thanks for reminding me of his issues. Not a straightforward case sadly. I hope that things go well for him and that you see improvements soon.


----------



## Apercrumbie (26 October 2020)

I posted earlier in the thread about similar issues that we had with my old horse with neck arthritis. He also started slipping on his back end (admittedly on exceptionally slippy tarmac) and actually went over on me on the road. Miraculously we were both unhurt bar a very bruised foot on my part, however that was pure luck. We just had to get road nails or retire him, even if we had some concerns around concussion. They made a huge difference to his way of going - with more confidence in his own feet he immediately started striding out better and as a result his arthritis was easier to manage. A horse moving stuffily will always be a bit stiff after all.  In your shoes I would give them a go.

I completely understand how overwhelmed you feel. Just take it one step at a time - road nails are a small change that could make a big difference. If they don't, you can stop putting them in and little harm will be done. In the meantime, I would probably avoid riding him downhill as he will feel as nervous as you about it. Don't lose heart yet, I promise it can get better.


----------



## Melody Grey (26 October 2020)

Don’t despair re: slipping on the back. Exactly the same thing happened to mine when remedially shod (at great expense!) for the first time. In the next set, the farrier used a more concave shoe and it completely stopped the slipping- it was an easy and instant fix For the slipping.


----------



## Melody Grey (26 October 2020)

Melody Grey said:



			Don’t despair re: slipping on the back. Exactly the same thing happened to mine when remedially shod (at great expense!) for the first time. In the next set, the farrier used a more concave shoe and it completely stopped the slipping- it was an easy and instant fix For the slipping.
		
Click to expand...

ETA- my first thought was also road nails, so I was sceptical about just changing shoe type
But it really worked ;-)


----------



## Dyllymoo (27 October 2020)

Thanks both.  I messaged the farrier yesterday but know he is super busy so wait to hear.  We had to big slips this morning, poor sod.  Think I'm going to walk in hand as I cant risk him going down.


----------



## Dyllymoo (27 October 2020)

Farrier is going to put road nails on next time he comes (2 weeks on Friday).  Physio is coming on Monday and has advised to keep working him.

He didn't seem his happy self this morning out on our walk and he tripped (slightly not big trips) a few times and slid behind a few times.  I feel so bad for him, he doesn't seem like he enjoys going out for rides any more.

I feel so sick with worry.


----------



## milliepops (27 October 2020)

it's really hard to be objective when you're worried about them but from what you're saying I would be pretty concerned too  
does physio know he's still tripping?  it's really awkward when you don't have all your professionals joined up together.


----------



## Dyllymoo (27 October 2020)

milliepops said:



			it's really hard to be objective when you're worried about them but from what you're saying I would be pretty concerned too 
does physio know he's still tripping?  it's really awkward when you don't have all your professionals joined up together.
		
Click to expand...

I did say he has the odd trip but he isn't going forward either, so potentially could be that, but I think I am making up excuses for it.  

I've let the physio know about the tripping.  I'm sat in tears at my desk as I hate all this so much.


----------



## Dyllymoo (27 October 2020)

Physio has advised not to ride until she has seen him.  We reached 4 days of rehab....


----------



## milliepops (27 October 2020)

Sorry you're having such a tough time  x


----------



## Dyllymoo (27 October 2020)

milliepops said:



			Sorry you're having such a tough time  x
		
Click to expand...

Thank you.  I've provisionally booked the vets for the next available date (17th November) just in case.  Ugh... feel so sad


----------



## ponyparty (27 October 2020)

My heart goes out to you, it really does. You're doing everything you possibly can for him; you're clearly such a caring owner, he's a lucky boy. It's hard to stay positive in a situation like this (I know!) but try not to assume the worst. Could be many things - he's probably using his whole body differently with these new shoes and rebalanced feet landing differently, he's having to get used to that, for starters! We're all rooting for him here x


----------



## ester (27 October 2020)

The trouble is he might not be 'walking on' because he can't so it is connected to the tripping rather than being the cause of it. Not all scan results are proportional to the effect they have, I know that too well as someone who scans apparently fine but definitely isn't. See what the physio says but it doesn't seem like he's had much improvement from pre medication?


----------



## Dyllymoo (27 October 2020)

ester said:



			The trouble is he might not be 'walking on' because he can't so it is connected to the tripping rather than being the cause of it. Not all scan results are proportional to the effect they have, I know that too well as someone who scans apparently fine but definitely isn't. See what the physio says but it doesn't seem like he's had much improvement from pre medication?
		
Click to expand...

I agree with that. He was medicated middle of September and doesn't seem any different. Before his shoes he seemed better, striding out hacking. But now he seems reluctant at best. Even downhill when he would storm home he isn't as forward.

I'm honestly the saddest I think I have been through all this.


----------



## Bernster (27 October 2020)

I’m really sorry you’re having a rough time of it. Can’t offer any help, just wanted to send you a virtual hug. Things are crappy generally this year and a lot of the usual things that keep us happy or in good mental,health aren’t available, so I think lots of us are struggling to cope. Horses are such a big part of our lives, and when it’s not going well it can be really tough. I hope things get better for you but you’re obv giving him the best chance you can.


----------



## Dyllymoo (28 October 2020)

Bernster said:



			I’m really sorry you’re having a rough time of it. Can’t offer any help, just wanted to send you a virtual hug. Things are crappy generally this year and a lot of the usual things that keep us happy or in good mental,health aren’t available, so I think lots of us are struggling to cope. Horses are such a big part of our lives, and when it’s not going well it can be really tough. I hope things get better for you but you’re obv giving him the best chance you can.
		
Click to expand...

Thank you.  I honestly would just give up horses at this point.  If I could sell him I would (but I wont as he has medical issues and I cant guarantee someone wouldn't sell him on etc.) but I genuinely have been thinking how much happier I would be without horses in my life.  I've written the for sale ad for my little lorry as well.... I genuinely cant do all this any more


----------



## Dyllymoo (2 November 2020)

Little update. Physio has been and can see something not right in his left stifle. He is not quite sound on it.

We are (hopefully.... stupid lockdown) going to the vets on Monday for them to nerve block that area and see if it helps.

Physio did say his front end is looking amazing and his shoes have really changed his stance (for the better) and he is muscling up in the right places.

She said his neck is super and he can flex well and so the steroids have worked there. Which was a massive worry of mine.

So yes off to the vets next week for a discussion and check of his stifle area.

I also came down with tonsillitis at the end of last week.... explains why I felt so awful and like I couldn't cope with anything. 

Sorry for being such an idiot about all of this. Hopefully we can get J comfortable and see what the next stage is.


----------



## splashgirl45 (2 November 2020)

not an idiot, just a worried owner who is doing their best


----------



## Dyllymoo (9 November 2020)

Dropped J off at the vets this morning for his check into his stifle.

He has been really hot recently, he isn't coping with his thick fur and the temperatures of 16 degrees.  He was agitated in the box and that really isn't him 

Need to wait to hear from the vet now and go from there.

At least I'm at work to pass the time.


----------



## ForeverBroke_ (9 November 2020)

Fingers and toes crossed for today. Hopefully its some more answers for you both.


----------



## Errin Paddywack (9 November 2020)

Hopefully it will be good news, something treatable.


----------



## IrishMilo (9 November 2020)

I don't want to speak out of turn here, but please look after yourself and be careful around J. He sounds extremely unstable on his feet, and I'm glad you're not riding him anymore as I remember the video you posted of him tripping and thinking that could have been a seriously nasty accident for you both.

It's very clear you're doing your absolute best in trying to get to the bottom of things, but you also sound so unhappy and stressed. I know how you're feeling and it's such a weight on your shoulders. I just want you to know that you don't have to keep going if you've had enough. No one would begrudge you for calling it a day. It sounds like there's a lot of different things going on and some of them won't ever get better.

It's VERY hard to make the call and I know that because I agonised over it for weeks and weeks. I changed my mind on a near daily basis. Milo didn't even have anywhere near as much going on as what J did but frankly I was spent after a year of worrying about him and things only ever getting worse and not better. I had the 'advantage' that trying to ride him would usually result in him practically turning himself inside out which meant I also got to a point where it was only a matter of time that I came off and seriously hurt myself.

There will always be one more thing to try, one more thing to try to diagnose but that doesn't always mean it's right. A question I asked myself a lot was 'Just because I can, does it mean I should?'. I knew what I would have advised anyone else and the hardest part was following through with that myself.

I'll hold my hands up and fully admit that I am no where near as... dedicated (for want of a better word) in going the whole hog diagnosing and treating horses with degenerative conditions - part of that is because I'm a pessimist and usually quite pragmatic and another is that I don't always believe that's what the horse would choose. My opinion from what you've written and shown us is that J sounds like quite an unhappy, stressed horse.

This is a very long and possibly morbid post so I apologise if what I have written upsets you, but at the time I wanted someone to just say it's okay to let go; you're not 'giving up'. You're making a decision in your best interest and in the interest of your horse.

I miss Milo a lot, but I have not spent a single second regretting my decision, FWIW. I have much more clarity on the situation now I'm not spending my days in a fog of worry and stress. You have a whole forum of people supporting whatever you decide.


----------



## Dyllymoo (9 November 2020)

Its not good news.  Unfortunately he showed some obvious neurological signs today and they were neck related.  Vet has advised she didn't think the injections into his neck have really worked and that unfortunately this shows that he does have some impingement on his spinal chord.  I didn't see this in the CT report but she did say she looked it over and it actually said that the dye stuff didn't actually go deep enough that they could tell if there was an impingement.  She said there definitely is from how he was today.

She has advised that I have 3 options:

1) carry on rehabbing, she is very much advising against this due to the fact he didn't know where his front feet were this morning.  She advised whilst she cannot tell me he definitely will have an accident that she thinks its a risk not worth taking for either of us.

2) Retirement

3) PTS

Obviously I'm heartbroken.  She is going to give me a call back on Thursday to give me time to digest everything she has explained and to ask any questions I may have, which I thought was extremely kind of her.

My OH wants a second opinion, which I'm happy to do but I have to be careful with regards to £ and how far we go.

He is such a kind soul its really upsetting.

But there we go....


----------



## ITPersonnage (9 November 2020)

So sorry it's not better news but FWIW I think you probably know what's best already, just take your time and your gut instinct will tell you what to do. Life is tough, you have my respect for trying so hard to find out the truth.


----------



## nikicb (9 November 2020)

Dyllymoo said:



			Its not good news.  Unfortunately he showed some obvious neurological signs today and they were neck related.  Vet has advised she didn't think the injections into his neck have really worked and that unfortunately this shows that he does have some impingement on his spinal chord.  I didn't see this in the CT report but she did say she looked it over and it actually said that the dye stuff didn't actually go deep enough that they could tell if there was an impingement.  She said there definitely is from how he was today.

She has advised that I have 3 options:

1) carry on rehabbing, she is very much advising against this due to the fact he didn't know where his front feet were this morning.  She advised whilst she cannot tell me he definitely will have an accident that she thinks its a risk not worth taking for either of us.

2) Retirement

3) PTS

Obviously I'm heartbroken.  She is going to give me a call back on Thursday to give me time to digest everything she has explained and to ask any questions I may have, which I thought was extremely kind of her.

My OH wants a second opinion, which I'm happy to do but I have to be careful with regards to £ and how far we go.

He is such a kind soul its really upsetting.

But there we go....
		
Click to expand...

I’m so sorry to read your latest update. You really don’t deserve the bad luck you have had with horses. All I can offer you is a big hug. Take care of yourself. xx


----------



## Pearlsasinger (9 November 2020)

I am so sorry to see this.  My advice would be to take some time to think about your next step.  If a 2nd opinion would help you to accept the test results then it will be money well spent.  Look after yourself.


----------



## ester (9 November 2020)

Sorry Dylly, I kept checking that he'd had no impingement on the scan as what you described sounded like there would be so sadly that makes more sense with this vets description. Give yourself some time to decide what to do.


----------



## Meowy Catkin (9 November 2020)

I'm heartbroken for you.  I'm so sorry that they found neurological issues.


----------



## milliepops (9 November 2020)

I'm really sorry.

Take some time to digest and let it settle. 
Fwiw I don't think either option is the wrong thing. I've got one retired and one I will let go. Its so hard when they look well on the outside.


----------



## Errin Paddywack (9 November 2020)

I am desperately sorry to hear this.  You have my deepest sympathy.  Why is it that this ort of thing always happens to the nicest horses with the most caring owners.


----------



## splashgirl45 (9 November 2020)

so sorry, you have tried so hard to do the best for him so dont beat yourself up.  take time to think about what his quality of life will be like and dont focus on feeling guilty if you do decide PTS is in his best interest...its never easy when you care so deeply for them and you obviously do.  hugs xx


----------



## ponyparty (9 November 2020)

So sorry to read this. I was hoping for a (much) better outcome. My heart goes out to you. You've done everything you can; it's just absolutely rotten luck. These horses sure know how to break our hearts.
Go easy on yourself xx


----------



## Reacher (10 November 2020)

Another who is so sorry for you both. You are such a good owner and are doing your absolute best for him.


----------



## BBP (10 November 2020)

Errin Paddywack said:



			I am desperately sorry to hear this.  You have my deepest sympathy.  Why is it that this ort of thing always happens to the nicest horses with the most caring owners.
		
Click to expand...

Sadly I don’t think it does. I think the horses with the uncaring owners just have to carry on and endure until they become ‘not nice’ horses. J is very lucky to have his owner for sure.

For what it’s worth, yes, I would retire if he was mine. If he was happy and not a danger to himself or others. With mine, I am happy to keep him and forgoe ever riding again BUT I’m in a position where I can keep him how I want. He never needs to be stabled, he’s always out with friends on good ground, and I can do his daily massage etc easily. No one would blame you if you decide to call time. He won’t know, it’s just another day to him. Big hugs.


----------



## ycbm (19 November 2020)

Wrong thread,


----------



## Dyllymoo (19 November 2020)

ycbm said:



			DM, this is the video which you posted before you got the ataxia diagnosis. You've also posted threads about finding him in a muck sweat after galloping around the field.  If you combine the two things then this,  to me,  is a horse which you could find dead with a broken neck,  or worse alive with a broken leg,  at any time.  That isn't something I could cope with,  personally. My wobbler was PTS on a glorious day when he was as happy as a lark just after I got a definitive diagnosis.

I'm so sorry you are facing such a horrible decision,  whether you do it sooner or later.







Click to expand...

Indeed... that is my concern.

I have actually booked a 2nd opinion vet to come to my yard.  Possibly a waste of money, but I want to see the tests they do so I can see for myself what he is doing.  

I am really having to battle against a lot of people at the minute who have opinions (i.e. he is fine and I need to stop overthinking it all, or complicating it with professionals i.e. vets!).  I'm desperately trying to do the best for him.

I've asked for my OH to have the time off to be with me for the vet as he will probably think of questions I wont as he is non-horsey.

I do keep looking at the weather for a nice day.... but I cant quite commit at the minute.


----------



## ownedbyaconnie (19 November 2020)

Dyllymoo said:



			Indeed... that is my concern.

I have actually booked a 2nd opinion vet to come to my yard.  Possibly a waste of money, but I want to see the tests they do so I can see for myself what he is doing. 

I am really having to battle against a lot of people at the minute who have opinions (i.e. he is fine and I need to stop overthinking it all, or complicating it with professionals i.e. vets!).  I'm desperately trying to do the best for him.

I've asked for my OH to have the time off to be with me for the vet as he will probably think of questions I wont as he is non-horsey.

I do keep looking at the weather for a nice day.... but I cant quite commit at the minute.
		
Click to expand...

So sorry to hear the update OP.  Please ignore the stupid people with their uneducated, unnecessary and unwanted opinions.  The only opinions that matter are yours and the professionals.


----------



## BBP (19 November 2020)

It’s so bloody hard. With BBP he was having trouble getting up, we didn’t know why but for most people that is when you call time. I put him in a stable one night to keep him away from the others as they were trying to get him to play. I went up in the morning and found the bed was completely trashed and both his front legs were swollen around the front suspensory branches. He must have fallen trying to get up in a confined space. It was horrendous. And was enough to get me to make that decision as it was my worst fear realised, him injuring himself trying to get up and me not around.

Now for BBP he got a sudden reprieve.  The swelling went down within 24hrs and wasn’t strained suspensories afterall. I turned him out in the sand arena so he had more space and a good surface whilst I built myself up for the deed. And then like magic he got up properly, over and over again. For me I was lucky as it’s not neuro so he has earned more time. 

 I guess I’m telling you this to say that the ‘find them injured getting up’ is a reality.


----------



## Dyllymoo (19 November 2020)

BBP said:



			It’s so bloody hard. With BBP he was having trouble getting up, we didn’t know why but for most people that is when you call time. I put him in a stable one night to keep him away from the others as they were trying to get him to play. I went up in the morning and found the bed was completely trashed and both his front legs were swollen around the front suspensory branches. He must have fallen trying to get up in a confined space. It was horrendous. And was enough to get me to make that decision as it was my worst fear realised, him injuring himself trying to get up and me not around.

Now for BBP he got a sudden reprieve.  The swelling went down within 24hrs and wasn’t strained suspensories afterall. I turned him out in the sand arena so he had more space and a good surface whilst I built myself up for the deed. And then like magic he got up properly, over and over again. For me I was lucky as it’s not neuro so he has earned more time. 

 I guess I’m telling you this to say that the ‘find them injured getting up’ is a reality.
		
Click to expand...

And this is why I am taking it seriously and not just chucking out in a field and visiting every now and then.


----------



## Hand that feeds (21 November 2020)

Dyllymoo said:



			And this is why I am taking it seriously and not just chucking out in a field and visiting every now and then.
		
Click to expand...




Dyllymoo said:



			Indeed... that is my concern.

I have actually booked a 2nd opinion vet to come to my yard.  Possibly a waste of money, but I want to see the tests they do so I can see for myself what he is doing. 

I am really having to battle against a lot of people at the minute who have opinions (i.e. he is fine and I need to stop overthinking it all, or complicating it with professionals i.e. vets!).  I'm desperately trying to do the best for him.

I've asked for my OH to have the time off to be with me for the vet as he will probably think of questions I wont as he is non-horsey.

I do keep looking at the weather for a nice day.... but I cant quite commit at the minute.
		
Click to expand...

Sorry to hear you are being pulled in different directions - you are doing a very good job , the phrase “ to thine own self be true “ springs to mind. Good Luck


----------



## Dyllymoo (2 December 2020)

Unfortunately a sad update. I had a 2nd vet opinion on Monday which was very helpful for me to see what the vets had been seeing. After a discussion it was agreed that the kindest thing would be to pts.

Johnny went to sleep today after enjoying lots of treats and cuddles.

I'm heartbroken but hopefully in time I will remember it was the right thing for him.

Didn't help with the yard "experts" and their helpful comments about how he "isn't that bad" and its "such a shame" to pts as he is only 6. Someone even commented 30 mins before the vet came and asked "what about being a companion"..... Jesus......

Anyway..... he is galloping around up there eating everything and anything


----------



## OldNag (2 December 2020)

I am so sorry Dyllymoo. You did everything you could for him, and more.


----------



## ownedbyaconnie (2 December 2020)

So sorry to hear this Dyllymoo and I am so angry at those stupid yard morons on your behalf.  

Get a takeaway, eat a load of chocolate, drink a load of wine/gin/poison of choice, pop a guilty pleasure on the tv and have a good wallow.

You did what was best for him, that takes a lot of courage and it is the final, greatest gift we can give our animals.


----------



## Hand that feeds (2 December 2020)

Dyllymoo, you have handled this difficult and emotionally draining challenge so well. Johnny could not have asked for more, a logical investigation of all the possibilities and a sensible humane decision with his interests at heart. ❤️


----------



## Apercrumbie (2 December 2020)

So sorry to hear this Dyllymoo. Hold your head high, you have done right by your lovely boy when most would barely have noticed he was in so much pain. Take care of yourself x


----------



## ester (2 December 2020)

I'm sorry you had such unhelpful people around you but at least he was lucky enough to have an owner like you instead. Take care of yourself.


----------



## View (2 December 2020)

So sorry that people have been so unkind.

It's hard, but as owners this one final act of kindness is the greatest gift we can give them. 

For now, be kind to yourself, allow yourself to grieve for your friend while you heal.  In time, the pain becomes less raw and you will be able to remember the good times.


----------



## Lindylouanne (2 December 2020)

So sorry Dillymoo. You are a wonderful owner and made the correct decision with guidance from your vets, ignore the idiots. Hugs xx


----------

