# Bramham out takes



## rabatsa (5 June 2010)

I went to the stallion parade at Bramham horse trials yesterday and took some pictures.  Not all the stallions were perfect angels.

First up was Revolution who got a bit excited and developed a fifth leg.







Then Forinth kept poking his tongue out.







Finally Grafenstoltz kept rearing and running backwards.







and if you missed the first one he did it again.


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## Vickijay (5 June 2010)

Did you get any pics of them all being good, lovely ponies?!


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## FlorenceBassey (5 June 2010)

Forinth is gorgeous.


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## rabatsa (5 June 2010)

Some but not all great shots of full horses.

Forinth head shot







Springfield Symphony







Primitive Faerie Tale







Grafenstoltz







Washington Postman


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## Vickijay (5 June 2010)

Nice pics!!! Thanks for posting


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## Heidiham (5 June 2010)

Naughty Grafenstolz! Love him.

PS his daughter was a v good girl!


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## kerilli (5 June 2010)

Grafenstolz was angelic at Belton Stallion Parade, just to even it out... in the warm up, some bright spark had decided it was a good idea to have the PC Mounted Games teams warming up around/in the same arena as all the stallions (Hello?! Anybody see the potential for utter chaos here?!), and he wasn't even fazed by that.
nice pics, thanks for posting.


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## eventrider23 (5 June 2010)

I do have to say I am surprised to like Washington Postman....never one that has caight my eye before.....looks quite small though...how big would you say he is??????

And I love Forinth.....for a stallion that started eventing late, to winat 1 star is not a bad start.

Springfield Symphony looks like quite a handsome man and I have to say the pic of Graf all settled shows he looks like he settled after a bit.  Doesn't look like his normal jockey on board either though as Sarah Cohen usually rides him at parades or his dressage rider Liz so that could have played a part in his being unsettled.


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## trick123 (5 June 2010)

i have 2 primitive farie tale, lovely, and the mare is going to forinth this month so hopefully another lovely next year


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## angrovestud (6 June 2010)

Were all the stallions ridden? Rabatsa did you watch the event breeding class's ?


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## Holly831 (6 June 2010)

They were all ridden - and some of them were less than well behaved!!

Lovely day though


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## MozartK (6 June 2010)

The eventer Alex Hua Tian was riding Graf.

I watched the stallion parade and all I can say is that Graf stood out a mile, particularly in the warm up arena.

To be fair the stallions were kept waiting for what seemed like a very long time as they were running late. Graf's behaviour during warm up was very good, he even stood quietly for Alex to put a fly veil over his ears from the saddle! Although he did become distracted as Revolution entered the warm up arena on 5 legs looking as though he was about to cover a mare. Graf settled as soon as he was given something to do. Some of the other stallions were slightly better behaved but didn't particularly stand out in terms of movement or jump, but what would in the presence of Graf.

I speak as a hobby breeder having bred two horses for myself. I wasn't going to post about the stallion parade unless I saw something that could be seen as a negative comment regarding Graf or his behaviour. I was more than impressed by Graf and anyone thinking of using him should not be swayed by comments on here regarding his behaviour or feet for that matter, but go and see him themselves at a stallion parade and then decide.


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## rabatsa (6 June 2010)

Graf was far better behaved before he had his ears put on, the sequence of pictures I took of that happening shows him getting more and more upright whilst three people were doing it.  Personally I feel that he had been asked to do too much in the first collecting ring, endless jumping and extravagant trotting on the hard ground would not have helped him if the rumours of iffy legs have any substance.

I do not think that Revolutions behaviour had anything to do with Grafs napping, none of the others were bothered by him and R's rider kept him moving and worked through it within two laps.  The reversing through ropes and between horseboxes by G was more resistance than excitement.


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## angrovestud (6 June 2010)

what other Stallions were there?does anyone know


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## angrovestud (7 June 2010)

Thanks to my friend who sent me these last night, some more photos This is Mr Darko owned by Foxfolly, very impressed with him he looks really quiet outstanding in his jumping


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## SJFAN (8 June 2010)

I watched Forinth in SJ YH classes in 2007 and really liked him.


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## shirleyno2 (8 June 2010)

Is that Mr Darco, by Unbelievable Darco?


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## LynneB (8 June 2010)

Unbelievable Darco certainly throws some fabulous stock and Foxfolly really have brought this guy on .. lovely to see.


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## SJFAN (9 June 2010)

Yes, according to the programme he is by Fred, and is out of Zarla's Lady.


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## eventrider23 (9 June 2010)

My god Mr Darco is looking amazing!!!  Well done Foxfolly!!!


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## angrovestud (9 June 2010)

Hi Shirleyno2 Yes its Mr Darko by Unbelievable Darco doesnt he look fab and what a leap! his daughter is very pretty as well Foxfolly is doing an Amazing job with the Boys shes a busy gal she has three now.


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## LEC (9 June 2010)

Is that the stallion she bought ridiculously cheaply? Good on her as he looks great through her hard work.


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## angrovestud (9 June 2010)

I believe so yes I hope she gets chance to read this it will make her very happy I know she is very busy with the stud season now.


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## S_N (9 June 2010)

All I can say for Mr Darco is WOW!!!!  After everything she went through and the grief she was given by some when she gambled on buying him, he certainly looks to be doing her and her OH proud!  I sincerely hopes he continues to do so and any gain sayers put a sock in it!


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## magic104 (9 June 2010)

S_N said:



			All I can say for Mr Darco is WOW!!!!  After everything she went through and the grief she was given by some when she gambled on buying him, he certainly looks to be doing her and her OH proud!  I sincerely hopes he continues to do so and any gain sayers put a sock in it!
		
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Well done for dragging something dead & buried!  Most comments were bought about because of the person selling & the fact that Shirley is not an idiot & at the time you would have to go by was info was available.  No one can take away the fact he looks fab & a great job seems to have been done with him, & yes the experts got it wrong.

But as I said there was no need to dredge it up, because " sincerely hopes he continues to do so and any gain sayers put a sock in it!" until that comment everyone had!!


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## Maesfen (9 June 2010)

Magic, for goodness sake stop trying to police this forum if you don't agree with something.
SN made a perfectly valid and sensible comment, there was no need to reply like that.

FWIW, I wish Foxfolly all the luck in the world with him, she has worked incredibly hard to get him where he is now, full marks to her and I wish she'd come back on here, I always enjoyed her posts.


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## angrovestud (9 June 2010)

Because I liked Foxfolly so much she now has our colt to add to her string as I do not ride and he needed somebody who was hard working and new what she was doing I do not think she gets the time to come on here now.


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## Maesfen (9 June 2010)

That's a great chance for both of them and it must be lovely watching them progress.  Shame we don't see her on here but please wish her the best of luck with her boys, she deserves it and tell her to come back when the season's quietened down!


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## eventrider23 (9 June 2010)

I am sure Shirley would be the first person to come one and say well done!!!


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## shirleyno2 (9 June 2010)

Absolutely congratulations to Foxfolly, Felix aka Mr Darco had an injury as a 2 yr old. I'm glad foxfolly had the time and dedication to give him the home he deserved. And it is nice to see such lovely pictures and comments!


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## martinbaines (10 June 2010)

On behalf of my OH (Foxfolly) thanks for all the great coments. Felix is great pleasure to work with and we feel very lucky and proud to have him on our yard.


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## jervis (10 June 2010)

Who is Mr darco approved with?


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## Bearskin (10 June 2010)

I approve of him, will that do?


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## Foxfolly (10 June 2010)

Thanks so much to everyone for the lovely comments, it really means a lot to me!
I haven't been on here much as things are so manic at work... and I rarely get to sit on the computer when I get home... busy with all the horses!!

As my Hubby put it so well we are so proud to have Felix AKA Mr Darco, I did get a lot of grief on here when I took the risk and bought him but I loved the breeding and could see quality under the skinny exterior when we went to see him.

And for what its worth, regardless of the comments and for those who know the dealer I bought him from, they were completely open about everything including his old injury and have also been in touch since I bought him to see how things were going so I would recommend them to anyone! 

It appears he has taken on the well reputed easy and loveable temperament of his sire Unbelievable Darco, and I also understand his grand sire Zarlequin is also very much the same. He has been so easy for us back and produce as although we have both ridden since kids we are true amateurs and he was only the 2nd horse we backed ourselves!! 

Due to the fact he did have a freak accident as a 2yo and has an old injury we have taken things very carefully and slowly as we weren't sure if he would stand up to ridden work, but so far so good. He has won and been placed both SJ and dressage in few outings and we hope to start eventing 2nd half of the season. He has huge scope very evident when XC schooling recently and he was jumping 1m40 over the brush fences, I think he was worried about him manhood getting prickled!!

I absolutely adore him and am so proud of how well he behaved at the stallion parade, I wasn't brave enough to ride him myself and Gemma Tattersall did a great job riding him as she only sat on him for the first time in the warm up arena!! He was completely unfazed by all the crowd and I think he quite enjoyed being the centre of attention as every morning since he's come out of his box like he's looking for his fan club!!

here is a link to another great pic taken by someone on here..

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=374942

http://i579.photobucket.com/albums/ss235/Hels2009/Bramham/DSC00376.jpg

I love this photo!!


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## Foxfolly (10 June 2010)

jervis said:



			Who is Mr darco approved with?
		
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He is fully licensed with Weatherby's NTR, he passed his inspection with flying colours this year.

We may present him for a stud book grading when he is more established, he was only backed 18months ago and has been produced slowly due to his previous accident (He hung himself in his stable by his back leg as a 2yo and has been left with a slightly enlarged hock) We do not feel that pushing him now will be in his best interest so we will take our time and let him mature, and once we feel he is ready and has the results behind him to back it up we will!


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## rabatsa (11 June 2010)

I too have a picture of Mr Darco.  I remember the posts about Felix but did not realise this was the horse.


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## eventrider23 (11 June 2010)

Foxfolly a) he is a total credit to you and you should be thrilled b) shirley must be exstatic that he has come right and c)he looks sooooo much lik dad!!!

I too will likely be in you positiion as have a young amazing stallion who injured himself last year. Uhmming and ahhing about the NTR or a regular grading next autumn as a 3 yr old!


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## Maesfen (11 June 2010)

Bearskin said:



			I approve of him, will that do?
		
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I like your style and quite agree with you. 

FF, lovely to see you back, I'm so pleased Felix has/is doing so well; he's a great credit to you and has matured beautifully.  
Hope to see you back here when things quieten down for you.


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## jervis (11 June 2010)

Is Weatherbys NTR a WBFSH approved stud book?


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## S_N (11 June 2010)

eventrider23 said:



			Foxfolly a) he is a total credit to you and you should be thrilled b) shirley must be exstatic that he has come right and c)he looks sooooo much lik dad!!!
		
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Ditto this!  And is pretty much the jist of my previous post on this thread!


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## S_N (11 June 2010)

jervis said:



			Is Weatherbys NTR a WBFSH approved stud book?
		
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Your point is what precisely?


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## Clodagh (11 June 2010)

Jervis has made 4 posts, 3 of which have been asking about approvals for stallions...it obviously concerns him a lot.


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## Foxfolly (11 June 2010)

Well Jervis I get the impression that you know its not, so I am not sure why you need to ask?! You can put the wooden spoon away as I did make it quite clear in my post that he has not been to a stud book grading yet due to his accident and late start to ridden work which I feel is a very valid reason, as I am looking at the long term bigger picture rather than the view that as he is 6 he must have done x y z and be jumping at x height!
There are some very good stallions out there who where registered NTR in their younger years and didn't go forward for stud book grading until later on their career once they had proved their worth!

But for the benefit of those who are not aware the Weatherbys inspection is carried out by a specified equine vet who is chosen by wetherbys and the stallions undergo a full in depth examination, identical to that you would be asked to carry out prior presenting for a WBSFH stud book grading, this is to ensure the stallion in there opinion is worthy of being entire and that he has no hereditary defects. Mr Darco passed with no concerns from the vet at all!

Wetherbys issue covering certificates which can be used to register with other stud books and will mean the offspring will have recorded parentage.

I think the best way for people to decide if a stallion is suitable for their mare is to go and see it in the flesh, which is what anyone is welcome to do with our 3 boys. The stallion will sell himself if he is right and the person really can get their hands on and see what they are paying for...nothing to hide at here Foxfolly Stud!!!!


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## S_N (11 June 2010)

Very well said FF!  From what I recall, it's quite a stringent veterinary examination, including a full set of xrays!  

May I ask how tall Felix is please?


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## KatB (11 June 2010)

S_N said:



			Very well said FF!  From what I recall, it's quite a stringent veterinary examination, including a full set of xrays!  

May I ask how tall Felix is please?
		
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Mr Darco is STUNNING! Absolutely gorgeous. Look forward to seing updates


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## angrovestud (11 June 2010)

Well said FF we had the same here NTR, vetting, as I wanted to race our youngstock  most customers make there own mind up, I would rather have my boys vetted by a Prof organisation like weatherbys who are friendly to deal with and are run well.


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## eventrider23 (11 June 2010)

Not to mention TB stallions are automatically allowed to stand at stud....who regulates them?  So why is it a slight to have the NTR recgonition?


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## angrovestud (11 June 2010)

PR on the part of the organisations who run grading they make money, and everyone then believes them.


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## Foxfolly (11 June 2010)

S_N said:



			May I ask how tall Felix is please?
		
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He's bang on 16.1hh

And for anyone who went to Bramham and has the programme our email address is .com not .co.uk which is what was printed in the programme!! lol


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## jervis (11 June 2010)

the reason for my questions, is that I saw both stallions at Bramham, researched what little I could find about them, and couldn't find anything about their gradings or who they were graded with. i personally wouldn't use a stallion that isn't graded with a recognised society.  that's a personal choice, so why should I be screamed at for asking the same question about both?  is there something wrong with asking a question on here about a stallions grading/society?  

why did I ask the question about weatherby's NTR? because I couldn't find them on the wbfsh website, but that isn't always up to date, so perhaps they had been added.

there was another stallion at bramham who is graded, but i can't find his grading results anywhere, not even on the owners website.  but this stallion has been done to death on this forum, so i don't want to be accused of belittling or denegrating him by asking what I see as innocent, but are seen on here as provocative, questions.

in the end i chose last night to use Grafenstolz (or graften salt as i saw earlier), who seemed to exist on another planet compared to the rest of the stallions on display.  his jump was way beyond any else there, his movement was of international dressage quality (as confirmed by his dressage results).  his conformation is near perfect, regardless of a very small moment of naughtiness in the warm up ring, he was the best behaved in the main ring, and was the only stallion to receive a round of applause from the crowd. we were in a marquee and when we all saw him, we all ran out to watch.  he was also beautifully ridden by Alex Hua Tian.

the website for him was informative, the owner very helpful, when i asked for information not available on the website the owner was forthcoming.  grafenstolz was on the lorry, fully booted and ready to go, but the owner still stripped him off for me to see him standing.  last night i received a list of successful youngstock, which was very impressive.  the conditions of sale were spot on as was the price, in the end it was an easy choice to make

sorry that you felt my questions were so threatening


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## millitiger (11 June 2010)

oh look, Ken's back


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## Springs (11 June 2010)

millitiger said:



			oh look, Ken's back 

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I agree, Odd how he just keeps appearing!


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## air78 (11 June 2010)

I just read Jervis's last post and was pmsl What a nice mare owner to be doing such good (and well researched) PR for Graf.

This entire topic has turned in to a farce


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## Bearskin (11 June 2010)

Was it Ginny Elliot who was quoted in H & H that only an idiot makes the same mistake twice?  Pity certain users/abusers of this forum don't heed her advice.   Reappearing, asking the same "innocent questions"  time and time again, always with the same negative attitude. They do nothing for their own PR.  They just become a bit of a joke.


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## Gingerbear (11 June 2010)

[quote: who seemed to exist on another planet compared to the rest of the stallions on display.  his jump was way beyond any else there, his movement was of international dressage quality (as confirmed by his dressage results).  his conformation is near perfect, regardless of a very small moment of naughtiness in the warm up ring, he was the best behaved in the main ring, and was the only stallion to receive a round of applause from the crowd. we were in a marquee and when we all saw him, we all ran out to watch.  he was also beautifully ridden by Alex Hua Tian.

Ha Ha were you at the same stallion parade?

The only reason he stood out for me were his playing up skills, as the pictures have already shown.  He received no more applause than anyone else and for a stallion of his age and experience, compared to some much younger and older, I would expect a decent performance.
Anyway, I personally think that there were some very nice stallions at the parade. I was also surprised that some that I had not previously looked twice at from their pictures were much better in the flesh and quite impressive.  I found it a very useful and interesting event.


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## Foxfolly (11 June 2010)

I agree with Jervis that Graf did look absolutely stunning was very well ridden and yes for a more experienced stallion was very impressive. He does move well and he does jump a big fence well! He is very impressive and if he is what suits your mare then we are very lucky to have him in the UK to use! I was in the warm up most of the time he was and there was only one little moment of naughtiness in the warm up other than that he was very well behaved... but I am not sure you could go as far as saying better than all the others as I didn't see any of other stallions misbehave at all!! Except Revolution coming in rather vocally on 5 legs but he settled after 5 mins, in fact it may have been what set Graf off!!

But what spoils the picture for me is that his owner was stood outside the ring loudly criticising other peoples stallions, he obviously didn't realise he was stood next to myself, my husband and friend when he started slagging off Unbelievable Darco!! I just find that sort of behaviour very unprofessional. If I didn't own my own stallion I would be very put off if I went to view a stallion and the owner was do that, exactly the same as I would if I went to buy anything else!


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## henryhorn (11 June 2010)

As ever, a "newbie" manages to promote the same stallion time and time again...
I don't know about you, but I find it insulting that the person behind these oh-so-similar type of posts thinks we are all so stupid we can be fooled..
Every time the breeding forum gets near a point that you begin to think it's fulfilling it's purpose as an informative place for breeders to meet, the same idiot spoils it again.
As I have said in the past, anyone who feels the need to promote their stallion to this degree must either need the money or the attention..
Good stallions get mares by word of mouth and their youngstock being seen out and about, they don't need non stop promoting if they are any good..
Please go and parade your ego elsewhere...


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## eventrider23 (12 June 2010)

What I want to know is what there is to slag off about Unbelievable Darcco.....he has MORE than proven himself competitively and has nothing to prove.  The fact that he is not going out competing at International Sunchine Tour GP's is not his fault.  He proved his worth as a youngster and was unfortunately plagued my colic....a hindering factor and one that should by all rights have killed him...the fact that his owner has got him back jumping the classes that he is...whether Internationally or not....is a miracle as very few horse come back from those sorts of surgeries at all.   

Foxfolly I think you have done an amazing job with Felix and even if by PM I would LOVE to see some more pics of him in action nowadays....could you PM me you website address? Searched but couldn't find it. As with my young stallion, a lot of people would have written him off but time and dedication proves to pay off!!!!!  Pm me please as would love to see some more pics and those of his babies and I know you cannot post them on here!


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## LynneB (12 June 2010)

I have been to see many stallions in the past year and have never EVER heard one of their owners slagging off another stallion.  To use this method as a marketing ploy is just sheer folly, a stallion owner should focus on their own stallion's successes and good points and not try to yell down the competition.  Far better stallion owners have told me it is not for them to be commenting on other people's horses!

To be loudly denegrating Unbelieveable Darco, who has proven himself more worthy over and over both by results and by his wonderful youngstock AND who has a very knowledgeable and welcoming owner, it just sheer stupidity and shows ignorance of the results available for this particular stallion.  If a stallion is good enough, there is no need to slam others.


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## shirleyno2 (12 June 2010)

Just a quick word to defend my stallion, he had 2 colic surgeries, last one 2 years ago, he is now on top form, winning at Surrey County [see pic in this weeks H&H!!!!!!!] He has won internationally and has over 30grand in winnings!


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## Bearskin (12 June 2010)

30k?  Is that all?  He sounds useless!


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## Foxfolly (12 June 2010)

shirleyno2 said:



			Just a quick word to defend my stallion, he had 2 colic surgeries, last one 2 years ago, he is now on top form, winning at Surrey County [see pic in this weeks H&H!!!!!!!] He has won internationally and has over 30grand in winnings!
		
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He's looking fab in the pic in H&H Well done Fred!!


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## shirleyno2 (12 June 2010)

Bearskin said:



			30k?  Is that all?  He sounds useless! 

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LOL, ok £31,470!


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## cruiseline (13 June 2010)

Foxfolly said:



			Thanks so much to everyone for the lovely comments, it really means a lot to me!
I haven't been on here much as things are so manic at work... and I rarely get to sit on the computer when I get home... busy with all the horses!!

As my Hubby put it so well we are so proud to have Felix AKA Mr Darco, I did get a lot of grief on here when I took the risk and bought him but I loved the breeding and could see quality under the skinny exterior when we went to see him.

And for what its worth, regardless of the comments and for those who know the dealer I bought him from, they were completely open about everything including his old injury and have also been in touch since I bought him to see how things were going so I would recommend them to anyone! 

It appears he has taken on the well reputed easy and loveable temperament of his sire Unbelievable Darco, and I also understand his grand sire Zarlequin is also very much the same. He has been so easy for us back and produce as although we have both ridden since kids we are true amateurs and he was only the 2nd horse we backed ourselves!! 

Due to the fact he did have a freak accident as a 2yo and has an old injury we have taken things very carefully and slowly as we weren't sure if he would stand up to ridden work, but so far so good. He has won and been placed both SJ and dressage in few outings and we hope to start eventing 2nd half of the season. He has huge scope very evident when XC schooling recently and he was jumping 1m40 over the brush fences, I think he was worried about him manhood getting prickled!!

I absolutely adore him and am so proud of how well he behaved at the stallion parade, I wasn't brave enough to ride him myself and Gemma Tattersall did a great job riding him as she only sat on him for the first time in the warm up arena!! He was completely unfazed by all the crowd and I think he quite enjoyed being the centre of attention as every morning since he's come out of his box like he's looking for his fan club!!

here is a link to another great pic taken by someone on here..

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=374942

http://i579.photobucket.com/albums/ss235/Hels2009/Bramham/DSC00376.jpg

I love this photo!!
		
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So pleased to see this post and the photos of your lovely boy. He is a real credit to you Foxfolly. I remember your first post when you purchased him, some favourable comments and some not so!!! Glad you have proven all the doubters wrong 

It is a shame that yet again we have a "Newbie" arrive on the scene to spoil it for us. I am under no confusion that it is not just a coincidence they jumped on the band wagon as soon as a certain stallion is mentioned, and yet again they find it necessary to put down every stallion being presented at Bramham in order to make theirs sound just that little bit better.
 

I find it astonishing that the owners of the "stallion in question" feel it necessary to bad mouth a horse that wasn't even there. If they are so threatened by Unbelievable Darco as a producer of top quality youngsters, perhaps they should purchase one and stand it at stud themselves


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## volatis (13 June 2010)

Another one who wants to congratulate you Foxfolly on having your boy looking so well. I remember the photos when you first bought him and he looks to be repaying your faith in him. 

Sadly due to ken reappearing on this forum every 5 minutes I barely bother posting now. I suggest everyone just presses ignore user whenever he reappears (at a weekend of course so admin cant delete him till Monday) and carries on discussing their latest arrivals, stallion choices for the season etc etc. I know I am already planning my 2011 coverings and working with a stallion owner I like and respect is one of my criteria.


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## Alec Swan (13 June 2010)

I would suggest that the greatest disservice to this previously,  and now currently pleasant thread,  was done,  not by the person who posed the question regarding registration,  but by those who over reacted.

Instead of reacting to those questions which may be barbed,  or may actually be asked in innocence,  would it not be better to simply ignore them,  rather than accusing the poster of being a henchman for someone else?  Those who take part in such bickering,  seem to me to be little better than their intended target.

FF,  irritating though it will undoubtedly be,  when another stallion owner rubbishes your horse,  they have forgotten the one rule of competitive business,  "You NEVER rubbish the opposition.  EVER."  Those who fall into this trap do themselves far more damage than they realise: witness the reaction on this forum!

Your response to the remarks about Grafenstoltz,  was both gracious and timely,  and I would tell you that you stand on the higher ground.  Well done,  it can't have been easy!  I applaud you,  and not just for that.  Despite the shaky start which your horse had,  you seem to have achieved a standard which others thought to be unattainable.  My modest opinion?  He looks terrific!

Alec.


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## Eothain (14 June 2010)

Colic Surgeries are a pain in the backside. It's one of the few things with horses we can't breed out!!!

On a slightly removed point and I apologize for going off topic, doesn't it show the real heart and tenacity of Eric Lamaze's Hickstead. He has colic surgery in December 07 I think and was out of action for a few months and then came back to whoop tail at the Olympics. Truly remarkable!

Foxfolly, your horse looks terrific and congratulations for taking the leap when so many would have walked away. When the "professionals" have trouble handling stallions, it looks even better for a horse like your own to be brought on by a self professed amateur rider like yourself! Congratulations, a fantastic accomplishment


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## Amymay (14 June 2010)

Some lovely photos.  Thanks OP.

The horses look magnificent.


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## jervis (14 June 2010)

"I would suggest that the greatest disservice to this previously, and now currently pleasant thread, was done, not by the person who posed the question regarding registration, but by those who over reacted."

Thankyou A1B2C3, the only thing I would add to your comment was that Foxfolly chose then to make a personal attack against Grafenstolz's owner, making claims that he was slamming another stallion.  So whilst the compliments were pleasant enough to see, they were totally negated by the subsequent accusation.

Apparently asking a question about a stallions grading status is "tripping up" stallion owners.  Why is that?  Is there something to hide that I don't know about?  Can someone explain exactly what Weatherby's NTR grading actually is?  Is it full approval?

Anyway, to balance things up a little, I just pulled these photos down from the Grafenstolz's facebook page.

I hope they work.

I can't get it to work, so here's the link anyway http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Grafenstolz/163473157477 enjoy.


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## magic104 (14 June 2010)

Can someone explain exactly what Weatherby's NTR grading actually is? Is it full approval?

Does it matter?  Plenty of good horses have been bred from these stallions both in the past & now.  I dont see the relevance TBH, if a stallion has been approved, vetted etc?  At the end of the day, no one puts a gun to the mare owners head & says use this stallion.  Hopefully they have used it because it suits their mare & they like the stallion in question.  Except for young stallions there is always their offspring to judge them by,


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## eventrider23 (14 June 2010)

I BELIEVE that NTR approval is a full5 stage vetting, x rays, you name it the lot to scientifically and physiologically say that the animal is 100% sound to breed from.  It is not a grading as is, I believe done by vets, but at the end of the day, if the approval says the animal is 100% fit physiologically to be bred from them surely then whether it is up to the job or not should be down to the mare owner's that choose to breed to them.

After all...who regulates TB stallions...if pure bred there is no grading system in place for them and yet still peopel breed....successfully...to them.   The NTR approval verifies to the owner that the stallion is 100% sound, cleanly x rayed and clear from any physiological problems.....surely that is at least something!!


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## angrovestud (14 June 2010)

The NTR that we did did not Xray but that was four years ago on an already graded horse all your doing is taking out the graders who are not vets anyway, as I believe they have a seperate vetting dont they? and the graders as they are not vets its just like showing its only an Opinion, that can be wrong, which is why Foxolly is very wise to go and let Felix Mature and get some results under his belt, as just like show judges if the grading panel have heard of him and hes done well, likely not to fail   him as, they would look silly.


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## Foxfolly (14 June 2010)

jervis said:



			Thankyou A1B2C3, the only thing I would add to your comment was that Foxfolly chose then to make a personal attack against Grafenstolz's owner, making claims that he was slamming another stallion.  So whilst the compliments were pleasant enough to see, they were totally negated by the subsequent accusation.
		
Click to expand...

Hardly a personal attack, just an observation and my personal opinion that it was rather unprofessional... I have never heard another stallion owner do this and I am afraid it is one of my pet hates in any circumstance whether it be selling semen or selling a car!!


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