# 'Dangerous dog' programme tonight on ITV..



## GeeGeeboy (20 March 2014)

Should be interesting! Who will be watching?


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## MurphysMinder (20 March 2014)

I've just seen this is on,  will be watching but will probably be bad for my blood pressure.


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## Fides (20 March 2014)

MurphysMinder said:



			I've just seen this is on,  will be watching but will probably be bad for my blood pressure.
		
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This^

l am so glad l don't own a telly!


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## magdalena (20 March 2014)

Its going to be sad. Dogs are what we make them.


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## Baileybones (20 March 2014)

9 minutes in and so far a programme of morons and so called professionals!!!


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## MurphysMinder (20 March 2014)

The "professionals" seem to be the biggest morons!


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## AdorableAlice (20 March 2014)

The pair of female RSPCA inspectors would be more at home on the cosmetic counter at Boots.  What a pair of plonkers.


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## GeeGeeboy (20 March 2014)

MurphysMinder said:



			The "professionals" seem to be the biggest morons! 

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Exactly what I was just saying! That man dealing with the Ridgebacks was beyond useless and that female dog warden who's scared of dogs, screaming and shouting! I'd bloody bite her if I was a dog! These programmes really annoy me-why do I watch them?!?!


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## lexiedhb (20 March 2014)

Why send someone who appears to be frightened of big dogs and unsure of her capabilities to deal with a potentially aggressive dog? Jeeeeeeeez
Omg slap her! Do dog wardens not think taking food might be a good idea


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## ester (20 March 2014)

not good with spiders so it was always going to go well with a guarding akita wasn't it... 

so I'm just going to stand and yell at it.. ....


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## ribbons (20 March 2014)

It's often the way. These people mean well but rarely actually have a clue. Shrieking and squealing over the dog muck and a spider is doing wonders for calming a highly charged dog who feels under pressure. Total amateurs  who believe they know what they're doing. Very dangerous scenario.


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## AnotherNewbie (20 March 2014)

AdorableAlice said:



			The pair of female RSPCA inspectors would be more at home on the cosmetic counter at Boots.  What a pair of plonkers.
		
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'Like' button required!!


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## Dizzydancer (20 March 2014)

what a rubbish program- how to make a scared dog be aggressive try and catch with a grab pole- why not try and be friend it!
the wardens are just laughable.


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## biggingerpony (20 March 2014)

I'm no dog expert but what dog warden doesn't carry round treats/food?


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## lexiedhb (20 March 2014)

They are dog wardens not rspca officers


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## Baileybones (20 March 2014)

She wants firing in the morning for being filmed twice now already saying she thinks the dogs will kill her. And what kind of idiot would give one bowl of food to two emaciated dogs to share and then be surprised they kick off?!?


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## MurphysMinder (20 March 2014)

Its scary that 2 different dog wardens seem to know ****** all about dogs!


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## Baileybones (20 March 2014)

lexiedhb said:



			They are dog wardens not rspca officers
		
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Worryingly they said she was an RSPCA inspector before becoming a dog warden.


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## Dizzydancer (20 March 2014)

Baileybones said:



			She wants firing in the morning for being filmed twice now already saying she thinks the dogs will kill her. And what kind of idiot would give one bowl of food to two emaciated dogs to share and then be surprised they kick off?!?
		
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my thoughts exactly.


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## lexiedhb (20 March 2014)

Fairly sure stangling the poor thing is helping


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## MurphysMinder (20 March 2014)

Baileybones said:



			She wants firing in the morning for being filmed twice now already saying she thinks the dogs will kill her. And what kind of idiot would give one bowl of food to two emaciated dogs to share and then be surprised they kick off?!?
		
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I agree, she needs the sack for the way she's dealt with that poor Akita !


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## GeeGeeboy (20 March 2014)

Dragging that dog out by the neck was appalling. They should be sacked. The way that woman shouts and screams is bloody ridiculous. I feel sick watching this.


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## Alec Swan (20 March 2014)

I've just been summoned in,  by my OH with a "Quick,  come and look at these idiots".  3 minutes was all that I could manage.

Will those two rspca girls have jobs tomorrow?  Whatever option they chose,  it was the wrong one,  even to the extent of misusing their poles.

Idiots.  Total and complete idiots.  There couldn't have been a much more shameful way of handling that dog.  

Rarely am I given to such anger.  Where are those forum members who champion the rspca now,  I wonder?

Moomin1,  would you care to comment?

Alec.


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## ester (20 March 2014)

not rspca alec, dog wardens.


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## ribbons (20 March 2014)

One was RSPCA inspector before becoming a dog warden.


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## GeeGeeboy (20 March 2014)

What has an owner not picking up after her dog got to do with 'dangerous dogs?!' This programme is a complete joke. I'm seething.


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## lexiedhb (20 March 2014)

Alec they are not rspca, they are dog wardens, one of which used to work for the rspca. I'm not a rspca fan but they shouldn't be being blamed for these totally useless women


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## Baileybones (20 March 2014)

Alec Swan said:



			I've just been summoned in,  by my OH with a "Quick,  come and look at these idiots".  3 minutes was all that I could manage.

Will those two rspca girls have jobs tomorrow?  Whatever option they chose,  it was the wrong one,  even to the extent of misusing their poles.

Idiots.  Total and complete idiots.  There couldn't have been a much more shameful way of handling that dog.  

Rarely am I given to such anger.  Where are those forum members who champion the rspca now,  I wonder?

Moomin1,  would you care to comment?

Alec.
		
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Sadly Alec they are dog wardens although one apparently did used to be an RSPCA officer. 
I am struggling to think of a time I've ever been more appalled at a programme and to think the worst offenders so far have been 'professionals'


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## MurphysMinder (20 March 2014)

The male dog warden with the Ridgebacks wasn't much better


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## AdorableAlice (20 March 2014)

Birmingham City Council employees.  It's painful to watch so far.  That Akita is a powerful dog but there must be better ways of dealing with it.


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## Alec Swan (20 March 2014)

ester said:



			not rspca alec, dog wardens.
		
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I stand corrected,  but only on the direction of blame.  I apologise,  but am none the less shocked that this programme went out.

Alec.


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## lexiedhb (20 March 2014)

Standard training is that? When a dog locks onto your arm - 1) lift your arm up and then 2) punch it in the head????? Blood boiling


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## ester (20 March 2014)

I think we're all with you on that one, I just thought moomin might not then want to comment.


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## GeeGeeboy (20 March 2014)

How is a skinny dog a dangerous dog?! What is this programme all about?! I'm going to complain.


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## Baileybones (20 March 2014)

Ooh the savage Akita seems better when not being strangled......


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## Paint Me Proud (20 March 2014)

i saw one of the birmingham dog warden jobs advertised last year and considered applying for it but didnt think I'd be suitable. I now know I would probably have had 50 IQ points on all the other candidates if those two ladies are who they chose!!!


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## lexiedhb (20 March 2014)

Oh just take the frigging dogs out if there and get that poor man some help!


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## MurphysMinder (20 March 2014)

Well she obviously has very little dog knowledge.  She looked through the letter box of that flat and stated they were "English bull terriers",  fairly obvious they are staffies!


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## Paint Me Proud (20 March 2014)

lexiedhb said:



			Oh just take the frigging dogs out if there and get that poor man some help!
		
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i know, why did she just leave?! Clueless, completely clueless!!


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## ester (20 March 2014)

I thought the dad looked like an EBT?

but yeah, leave the puppies there, survival of the fittest and then he will do it again for a bit more alcohol...


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## MurphysMinder (20 March 2014)

I didn't see the dad clearly but mum was a staffy, not a good one admittedly but the head was nothing like a bull terrier.
Sorry, yes having seen him properly dad is a bully.


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## GeeGeeboy (20 March 2014)

God, this I a depressing watch. My dogs are getting an extra cuddle tonight.


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## smiggy (20 March 2014)

Have not shouted at tv so much for years, shameful behaviour by all the "officials".
Completely inept handling that does nothing other than wind the dog up, why the hell not give the dog a bowl of food with some acp tablets in, to take the edge off. It was a lively dog in reality, as seen a week later. Just guarding its house then terrified by those numpties.
Even the little dog that was attacked by staffies, why the hell was the dog warden checking out the garden fence and having chat with owner with dog, who obviously hadn't seen a vet, was standing there in pain and about to go into shock.


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## lexiedhb (20 March 2014)

To be fair we are yet to actually see a dangerous dog


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## splashgirl45 (20 March 2014)

glad i checked this thread, i was going to watch on itv + 1 but will not now watch as sounds like i will be very angry and upset....i hate the way dogs are classed as dangerous due to their breed.... when will someone stand up for these dogs and do something about the idiot owners?????


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## blackcob (20 March 2014)

That akita turned out to be a great soft pudding of a thing, lovely boy. 

Sold at four weeks.


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## Alec Swan (20 March 2014)

ester said:



			....... I just thought moomin might not then want to comment.
		
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I've PM'd Moomin1,  received a justified rebuke,  and offered my apologies.  As I pointed out,  at least she reads my PMs!!

The next time that I have a serious whinge about that august body,  I'll be certain of my facts.  

I wonder if those people who were the subject of the film,  are proud of themselves.

Alec.


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## lexiedhb (20 March 2014)

So take home message? 
There are a whole load of numpty owners out there. PLUS a whole load of "professionals" who do not know one end of a dog from another.....


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## ester (20 March 2014)

maybe cayla needs cloning?


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## GeeGeeboy (20 March 2014)

Seeing that lovely Staffie getting put down at the end was a nice touch! Absolutely horrific programme. I'm in shock after watching that. I really hate the human race at times. Disgusted.


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## MurphysMinder (20 March 2014)

lexiedhb said:



			So take home message? 
There are a whole load of numpty owners out there. PLUS a whole load of "professionals" who do not know one end of a dog from another.....
		
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Well we knew the former didn't we,  it is the professionals I found shocking.


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## Irishdan (20 March 2014)

Cant quite believe what I have just watched!  Unbelievable that these people are supposed to be professionals


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## Baileybones (20 March 2014)

lexiedhb said:



			So take home message? 
There are a whole load of numpty owners out there. PLUS a whole load of "professionals" who do not know one end of a dog from another.....
		
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Utterly depressing programme when you realise that the owners are only part of this problem. I hope to God this was just sensationalism at its worst and those idiots were chosen deliberately but terrifying to think that the fate of these dogs lie in the hands of cretins like we've seen tonight......


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## lexiedhb (20 March 2014)

Utterly terrifying!


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## magdalena (20 March 2014)

AdorableAlice said:



			The pair of female RSPCA inspectors would be more at home on the cosmetic counter at Boots.  What a pair of plonkers.
		
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Just exactly what I thought. The way they dealt with Akita was just awful.


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## peaceandquiet1 (20 March 2014)

The scene with the Akita was sickening and heartbreaking, glad it was time to feed the ponies and get away from this programme!


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## noodle_ (20 March 2014)

shocking behaviour from the so called experts....

my 2 bitches would fight over food and they were not emaciated...!! so chucking food at 2 emaciated dogs...christ....stupid!?


that blonde woman was plain ignorant



who do i write a complaint too....they have done dog wardens around the UK no favours..... at all.


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## Dobiegirl (20 March 2014)

Though I agree with everything said, before you start blaming the dog wardens, one has to ask how much training they have had and what their take home pay is. Ive always believed if you pay peanuts you get monkeys, a low salary will only attract certain people and if little or no training is given then the problem is compounded. There is no doubt it can be a dangerous job which is made more  so when dealt with little or no knowledge.

The dogs which we saw tonight were not dangerous, I think the message they were trying and failing to get across was any dog has the potential to be dangerous, its the owners which make the difference and I think we can all agree with that.

Seeing that lovely dog at the end and then his dead body was so sad but unfortunately is enacted all over the country day in and day out.

Esther hit the nail on the head, we need to clone Cayla or perhaps someone could pay her to go and train dog wardens, there would be an instant improvement Im sure.


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## AdorableAlice (20 March 2014)

noodle_ said:



			shocking behaviour from the so called experts....

my 2 bitches would fight over food and they were not emaciated...!! so chucking food at 2 emaciated dogs...christ....stupid!?


that blonde woman was plain ignorant



who do i write a complaint too....they have done dog wardens around the UK no favours..... at all.
		
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Environmental Services - Head of Service.  The BCC website will tell you who it is.


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## Girlracer (20 March 2014)

I am watching it on +1, shocking, but mostly on the 'professionals' part.


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## noodle_ (20 March 2014)

AdorableAlice said:



			Environmental Services - Head of Service.  The BCC website will tell you who it is.
		
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Thank you!

will do this tonight as its terrible!


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## magdalena (20 March 2014)

Dobiegirl said:



			Though I agree with everything said, before you start blaming the dog wardens, one has to ask how much training they have had and what their take home pay is. Ive always believed if you pay peanuts you get monkeys, a low salary will only attract certain people and if little or no training is given then the problem is compounded. There is no doubt it can be a dangerous job which is made more  so when dealt with little or no knowledge.

The dogs which we saw tonight were not dangerous, I think the message they were trying and failing to get across was any dog has the potential to be dangerous, its the owners which make the difference and I think we can all agree with that.

Seeing that lovely dog at the end and then his dead body was so sad but unfortunately is enacted all over the country day in and day out.

Esther hit the nail on the head, we need to clone Cayla or perhaps someone could pay her to go and train dog wardens, there would be an instant improvement Im sure.
		
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Don't go for a job you cannot do. These dog wardens were are joke.


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## Suelin (20 March 2014)

Dobiegirl said:



			Though I agree with everything said, before you start blaming the dog wardens, one has to ask how much training they have had and what their take home pay is. Ive always believed if you pay peanuts you get monkeys, a low salary will only attract certain people and if little or no training is given then the problem is compounded.
		
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I do take exception to this.  I did this job for many years.  I was paid the minimum but money was not the driving force for doing the job.  I did it because I loved doing it and felt that what I did made a difference.  I am not, nor ever have been, any kind of monkey.  How rude.

Having made that point I have to say that I was totally appalled at the programme and at the unprofessional way the so called "professionals" conducted themselves.  They were a total disgrace, and need firing IMO.  I've dealt with many unpredictable dogs.  The best way forward is with quiet patience but with the back up of the grasper as a last resort.   Birmingham  council need to take a long hard look at their DW dept PDQ!!


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## Jonjoseph (21 March 2014)

Suelin said:



			I do take exception to this.  I did this job for many years.  I was paid the minimum but money was not the driving force for doing the job.  I did it because I loved doing it and felt that what I did made a difference.  I am not, nor ever have been, any kind of monkey.  How rude.

Having made that point I have to say that I was totally appalled at the programme and at the unprofessional way the so called "professionals" conducted themselves.  They were a total disgrace, and need firing IMO.  I've dealt with many unpredictable dogs.  The best way forward is with quiet patience but with the back up of the grasper as a last resort.   Birmingham  council need to take a long hard look at their DW dept PDQ!!
		
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As a serving dog warden I found that this programme has made a mockery of the all important role we carry out and will be making a full and just complaint


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## loopiesteff (21 March 2014)

I sky plus'd it, but after reading this, I've just deleted it! Doesn't sound worth watching if so many of you are angry/upset. Sounds horrific!


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## s4sugar (21 March 2014)

Some years ago,Birmingham, or at least one of the West Midlands local authorities famously advertised in the Dog papers for a Dog Warden with a "No experience of dogs necessary" line. 
Looks like they are continuing with this criteria.
I only saw a preview showing incorrect ( & IMO unnecessary -but I wasn't there) use of the nooses - appauling & maybe an offense under the AWA.


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## MurphysMinder (21 March 2014)

Our local dog warden is an ex dog breeder (okay only a small breed but at least he understands dogs) and I have only every heard good reports of him.  To say the noose was used incorrectly s4s is an understatement, the dog was virtually unconscious by the time she got it out, then had the nerve to say its collapsed state was due to heat in the house and lack of water!


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## BBH (21 March 2014)

I purposely didn't watch as I have 3 bullbreeds and knew this programme would demonise them .

Judging from my FB page everyone thought the same as you guys on here.


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## ribbons (21 March 2014)

The word proffessional, for most of us, conjures up an image of someone dedicated and very experienced at what they do.

In reality, it simply means that you receive payment for what you do.
Perfectly illustrated in that programme.

There are plenty of useless people in animal welfare jobs (not necessarily "doing" them) who love to strut about calling themselves proffessionals.
All it does is convince any knowledgable people that they are all the same (not true) or teach the inexperienced owners that its the way to behave.
When I have had occasion to have conversations with these type of people I am often left in despair at their stupidity.

The man who fed two starving ridgebacks from the same bowel and wondered why they kicked off
Should only be clearing up poo, leaving others to manage and handle the dogs.

As for those two girls, they reminded me of Cruella De Vil's bungling dog nappers. 
If it hadn't been real traumatised dogs suffering their stupidity, it would have been funny.


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## MurphysMinder (21 March 2014)

A page has been set up on facebook looking to collect comments on the programme.
https://www.facebook.com/itvdangerousdogs


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## lexiedhb (21 March 2014)

They didnt actually demonise bull breeds- that will probably be in the next show


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## ribbons (21 March 2014)

The message behind the idiots on screen was actually quite positive. They were trying to explain that dangerous dogs are more to do with their owners and treatment than the breed.
Sadly that was lost amongst the behaviour of the numpties the programme makers chose to appear as the good guys.


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## ester (21 March 2014)

I couldn't believe that they continued to drag a practically passed out akita out of the house once they had caught it. 

I spent some time on work experience with our local dog warden 15 odd years ago and just watching her with dogs you knew that she knew what she was doing and was confident with them. If not on specific calls she used to take her rottie in the truck with her as she found that helped when talking to other people in some areas . She had a sidekick but said she would never send her out on any aggressive dog calls as she just wasn't able to cope with them.


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## AdorableAlice (21 March 2014)

The only heartening thing that came out of the dreadful programme was the Akita being rehomed.  I bet he is a most lovely pet and a right clown.  Not sure about the white hair everywhere though !


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## Dobiegirl (21 March 2014)

Suelin I offended you and for that I'm sorry, there are exceptions to the rule as MM has said, Im sure there are some dedicated and good dog wardens out there but we didn't see them last night, quite the opposite.


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## Suelin (21 March 2014)

Dobiegirl said:



			Suelin I offended you and for that I'm sorry, there are exceptions to the rule as MM has said, Im sure there are some dedicated and good dog wardens out there but we didn't see them last night, quite the opposite.
		
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Thankyou Dobiegirl, appreciated.  There are many good Dog Wardens I feel sure, hopefully they are in the majority.  You are quite right to say that the programme last night showed the worst possible examples of what Dog Wardens actually do.

I was rather stunned at the DW going into an empty house without either council staff with them or a police presence.  We would never have been put in that position.  Further, the woman shouting at the fouling offender was completely unprofessional.  I have always felt that you win more folk over with sugar than vinegar, which was how I carried out my job.  

I sincerely hope that she is without a job this morning.  Dreadful, truly dreadful in every sense.


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## Dobiegirl (21 March 2014)

Thank you Suelin, can you say what training DWs have as all I've been able to find out is how to fill in the paper work needed to give to offenders.


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## allyp (21 March 2014)

National Dog Warden Association have issued a press release about this: http://www.ndwa.co.uk/dogwarden-news-events/news/?news-id=101


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## Katikins (21 March 2014)

I just watched this on itvplayer and I was expecting the worst after reading the comments on here but I'm going to play devil's advocate.  Yes, at certain times I agree that the dog wardens didn't necessarily display the best knowledge of dog behaviour but you need to remember that this is an edited program.  The akita truly looked exhausted (through barking/guarding) rather the from being 'strangled'.  I do think these dog wardens have the best interests of the dogs at heart but they are very tied by the laws that they have to work around.  The puppies that were sold at 4 weeks... you could see that in the earlier visit she was trying to do her best to get the owner to provide for them as needed, he chose to ignore her and sell puppies for a quick buck down the pub because 'they could eat and drink on their own'.  Not her fault, purely a case of greed, or more likely desperation looking at how the guy was living.

I'm not saying that all that happened in this program is ideal and I would like to think that if I or anyone else that frequents this forum were in those situations (particularly the akita) would act in a much more calm and measurable fashion.  However, these are extreme situations that even someone who has been trained may have never seen before.  I think that improvements need to be made but the demonisation of those people that is currently happening on this thread seems a bit extreme.

I never want to get into an argument in this section but I do think that there has been a slight overreaction here (slight I may add).  The shrieking was completely uncalled for and counterproductive, but the rest of the program did seem to emphasise the point that dangerous dogs are made, not a breed/bred.  As that is something that this forum rallys for on an almost daily basis maybe it would be good to see what was trying to be achieved here rather than nitpicking at some human reactions, that although far from perfect, are totally understandable to those who have perhaps never or rarely seen dogs at this extreme of behaviour before.

*puts tin hat on to prepare of a slating*


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## ribbons (21 March 2014)

I'm certainly not going to slate you but I really strongly disagree with your opinion on the Akita situation. That dog would have had to bark / guard for hours and hours if not all day solid to get in that condition, in fact I don't believe it is possible he could have ever got himself into that state. He wasn't exhausted, he was pretty much unconscious. His airways were seriously compromised and he was unable to move. She then claims it was because he was too hot in the house. 
I don't know about failing to display the best knowledge. 
There was no sign of ANY knowledge. Stupid stupid woman.


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## MurphysMinder (21 March 2014)

You are entitled to your opinion katikins but have to agree with ribbons re the Akita .  There seems to be a huge number of people on fb  and other social media sites who are also very critical of the dog wardens on this programme .


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## allyp (22 March 2014)

Agree with some of your points katikins, I am an animal warden for a council and have dealt with situations like those on the programme many times.
The puppies were one of those frustrating visits where yes I don't think there was formal action that could be taken - there's a lot that has to be wrong before you can seize a dog. In that situation I would probably have given the owner a warning, advice and offered to try to find rescue spaces for the pups - this may have happened but not been shown.
However I don't feel that lady should be a dog warden, she is clearly terrified. Not surprising given her awful experience but... I do wonder what she was like before that and that may be the reason why she was attacked. That's speculation though, I don't know her.
The akita was handled appallingly and the two dogs in the same kennel! Why were they together? Or in a kennel that had no outside run? To think of them being poled every day to be moved so it can be cleaned. We refused a licence to as kennel that had a similar set up.
Reality is there are good and bad dog wardens as in any job but! There is an increasing number of councils saving money by running a shoddy service. Its being outsourced to companies who pay even less/provide less training or is being dumped on officers such as pest control or general technical officers some of whom don't want to do the job or even like dogs.
I thought the idea behind the programme was good (bad owners create bad dogs) but was lost. If however it raises awareness of the lack of support to decent dog wardens and the cuts to services then could still be some good


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## AdorableAlice (22 March 2014)

allyp said:



			Agree with some of your points katikins, I am an animal warden for a council and have dealt with situations like those on the programme many times.
The puppies were one of those frustrating visits where yes I don't think there was formal action that could be taken - there's a lot that has to be wrong before you can seize a dog. In that situation I would probably have given the owner a warning, advice and offered to try to find rescue spaces for the pups - this may have happened but not been shown.
However I don't feel that lady should be a dog warden, she is clearly terrified. Not surprising given her awful experience but... I do wonder what she was like before that and that may be the reason why she was attacked. That's speculation though, I don't know her.
The akita was handled appallingly and the two dogs in the same kennel! Why were they together? Or in a kennel that had no outside run? To think of them being poled every day to be moved so it can be cleaned. We refused a licence to as kennel that had a similar set up.
Reality is there are good and bad dog wardens as in any job but! There is an increasing number of councils saving money by running a shoddy service. Its being outsourced to companies who pay even less/provide less training or is being dumped on officers such as pest control or general technical officers some of whom don't want to do the job or even like dogs.
I thought the idea behind the programme was good (bad owners create bad dogs) but was lost. If however it raises awareness of the lack of support to decent dog wardens and the cuts to services then could still be some good
		
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Excellent and very true comments.  Indeed I am a 'Technical Officer' in a Unitary Authority, that has been 'spread' thinly over many aspects despite licensing being my speciality.  Nothing will improve whilst the government continues axing services.  Lets face it, children's services, elderly services, public health and welfare have all been severely hit.  Animal welfare comes second.  You would be astounded if I revealed what has gone from the service I am based in.


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## Alec Swan (23 March 2014)

allyp said:



			Agree with some of your points katikins, I am an animal warden for a council and have dealt with situations like those on the programme many times.
The puppies were one of those frustrating visits where yes I don't think there was formal action that could be taken - there's a lot that has to be wrong before you can seize a dog. In that situation I would probably have given the owner a warning, advice and offered to try to find rescue spaces for the pups - this may have happened but not been shown.
However I don't feel that lady should be a dog warden, she is clearly terrified. Not surprising given her awful experience but... I do wonder what she was like before that and that may be the reason why she was attacked. That's speculation though, I don't know her.
The akita was handled appallingly and the two dogs in the same kennel! Why were they together? Or in a kennel that had no outside run? To think of them being poled every day to be moved so it can be cleaned. We refused a licence to as kennel that had a similar set up.
Reality is there are good and bad dog wardens as in any job but! There is an increasing number of councils saving money by running a shoddy service. Its being outsourced to companies who pay even less/provide less training or is being dumped on officers such as pest control or general technical officers some of whom don't want to do the job or even like dogs.
I thought the idea behind the programme was good (bad owners create bad dogs) but was lost. If however it raises awareness of the lack of support to decent dog wardens and the cuts to services then could still be some good
		
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Generally,  an excellent post which most would applaud.  

One niggling question though,  just why should a Council (one that we all pay for,  let's not forget),  have to pay for individual dog wardens to act on behalf of our Society?  Why should we,  as tax payers,  have to fund such a service?  How did we manage 40 odd years ago?  Not one question,  but 3.  How or more to the point,  why should society have to face these costs?  Can anyone justify it all to me?  Yet more questions!!

Alec.


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## allyp (23 March 2014)

Why should we pay for anything Alec?? 

The Environmental Protection Act 1990 puts the statutory duty on councils to provide a dog warden service. The reason for collecting and containing strays is because they can potentially be a danger to the public, cause traffic accidents, foul, tear open rubbish and generally be a nuisance

The same legislation also made it statutory for the councils to do many other things for example dealing noise nuisances or fly tipping. This is in addition to many other pieces of legislation stating that councils must carry out enforcement/regulatory duties etc. It was and is felt by central government that is necessary as part of general public protection and health to do such things. Does that make sense?

There's lots of things my council tax pays for that has no effect on my life whatsoever. Maybe in the future some of things may be important to me, a lot I will have no use for/involvement with. Is part of being in democracy 

I don't agree with all the things in legislation or from central/local government but I do believe strongly where people's safety and animal welfare is at risk then the job must be done properly, no excuses


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## Alec Swan (23 March 2014)

allyp,  perhaps we'll have to agree to disagree.  

Why the bloody hell should I,  as a tax payer have to support,  without complaint,  those who expect Society,  and again that's you and I,  to pick up their wastage?  With the constant cuts to our services,  are you really going to tell me that stray dogs take precedence over the welfare of the young or the elderly?  and please,  don't tell me that either are adequately catered for,  because they aren't.  

Are you honestly going to tell me that with Councils cutting the services of the needy,  that a girl driving around in a van,  with a badge and a uniform,  catching up the odd dog,  or two,  takes priority?  Really?

Alec.


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## allyp (23 March 2014)

Council cuts are affecting all services and of course vulnerable children and adults have to come first. I didn't say that they didn't. I pointed out that councils (and other agencies to be fair) are responsible in carrying out  a vast number (100s if not 1000s) of statutory duties and those that directly affect public health and animal welfare should be run properly by well trained, supported staff

A decent dog warden service is not "a girl in a van picking up the odd dog". They investigate stray dogs, dangerous dogs, nuisance complaints, licensing legislation and welfare complaints amongst other things. They carry out enforcement action where necessary but most importantly of all they educate - on an individual basis, at clubs and in schools. Education is on responsible dog ownership, safety around dogs, legislation and more.

I get angry when dealing with the same people again and again - especially as those people who are using/abusing multiple other services - social, children, anti social behaviour, housing, police, RSPCA. All too often you deal with one family and find that 7,8, 9+ departments/agencies are also dealing with them. However I have also seen people turn their lives around including those that seemed to be a total waste of time. When I see the situations they are raised in then I can understand why they act as they do - understand not codone as they still have a choice although they may not realise it. 

Again, I say why pay for any of these things? Sure start services for people who literally don't know how to take care of their children, social housing, medication for drug addicts - the council even bury you if none of your family care or have the money. 
The reason why is because we are a democratic society. Its not perfect by long shot (what about high earners using their wealth to find tax breaks so they pay less tax than I do?) and I've worked in local government long enough not to mention dealings at a national level to see the many serious faults in the system. I'm not defending those but am saying again that services should be well run with trained, supported staff. Especially those directly involving people's and animal's welfare

Final point- about 2/3rds of the dogs we collect as strays are owned by nice, ordinary people who are never in trouble with the police, work, pay their taxes and their rent/mortgage etc. Dogs sometimes escape or get lost on a walk or are stolen. The owners pay the fine and just care about getting their dog back


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## thewonderhorse (24 March 2014)

ribbons said:



			I'm certainly not going to slate you but I really strongly disagree with your opinion on the Akita situation. That dog would have had to bark / guard for hours and hours if not all day solid to get in that condition, in fact I don't believe it is possible he could have ever got himself into that state. He wasn't exhausted, he was pretty much unconscious. His airways were seriously compromised and he was unable to move. She then claims it was because he was too hot in the house. 
I don't know about failing to display the best knowledge. 
There was no sign of ANY knowledge. Stupid stupid woman.
		
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Totally agree.

 I was shocked by the behaviour of the so called professionals.

I was also shocked at the poor ridgeback that was so obviously scared to death and all that chap did at the kennels was shout at her and then pin her into a corner with a riot shield. No wonder she went to bite him. Talk about threatening behaviour from him!!

I appreciate that he only has them for a short period of time but come on, surely he should have a bit of time to try and get them to come round and not just totally freak them out. Also, one bowl?? Are you kidding me!! No wonder they kicked off. Idiot.

I worked at a rescue kennels for 5 years and yes, I was bitten a few times, but, I really believe if you cant get over it and treat each dog individually and not freak out then you shouldn't be working in that profession anymore.

To squawk and squeal and harp on about how she is going to be killed by an Akita, is, to me, totally unprofessional and did the dog no good in keeping it calm. That wasn't a tired dog, it was being strangulated. Absolutely shocking and I hope that she is facing disciplinary action because of it.


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## ribbons (24 March 2014)

Bring back the dog licence is my opinion. I don't understand why it was ever stopped.
Every dog must have an annually paid licence at a price of around £25. A fair price I believe. Very strictly enforced. 
It would go a long way to weeding out a lot of the moron owners and pay for the manpower needed to enforce it.
Yes I know it would mostly hit responsible owners, but I'd be happy to pay it providing it was strictly enforced. No licence, your dog is removed, simple as that.
Initially it would result in a huge increase in dogs being in rehoming kennels etc, and probably an increase in many being pts. A shame in the short term, but a huge benefit to future dogs lives in the long term.


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## MurphysMinder (24 March 2014)

The dog licence was stopped because only the responsible dog owners bothered to get one, and that was when it cost less than £1.  Once the new microchip law comes into effect it could make a difference IF the resources are there to check dogs.  However I very much doubt much money will be available to do this, and if they still have dog wardens like the 2 in that programme then I am not holding my breath for an improvement.


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## Saneta (24 March 2014)

Alec, when I was young, many many years ago, stray dogs were taken to the police.  I know this because someone dumped a Whippet through our shed window when I was a teenager, and dad made me catch a bus and hand the dog in to the police.  I was gutted...
Locally, there are several groups of travellers.  I understand that they are given £10 a week extra benefits if they own a dog.  Don't know if this is still the case?  Local people hated seeing the travellers coming in to town to collect the benefits, so arrangements were made for the payments to be made at their campsites.  Who paid for this??  The same people who pay for the benefits in the first place, the working public out of their taxes.
I guess that many services have to be paid for this way, we don't get a choice.  This morning, someone has dumped their old washing machine on the edge of the forest.  Personally, if I had the facilities, I would check for finger prints, trace if possible, any serial number, and find the flipping culprit and make him pay all expenses incurred.

My dad used to have a saying about certain criminals, 'put them up against a wall and shoot them'.  The older I get, the more I agree with him...it's a wicked world at times.

By the way, watching Dangerous Dogs upset me so much, I chose to switch it off.  I did watch Louis Therouix last night, and that was negative and positive in equal measures...


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## california dreaming (24 March 2014)

I watched the programme and it was a depressing watch.  I just remember thinking that you had to be a very special kinda  dumb to put one small bowl of food down for two starving dogs. And and even bigger kinda thick to be surprised that they did not show good manners to each other.


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