# Feeling disheartened..



## Olas11 (25 October 2016)

Hi guys,

I have had my mare Olas for around 2 weeks now. She is a gypsy cob, has been used in a riding school for the last 6 months and I fell in love with her when I viewed her.

For the first few rides, I felt we had really clicked and I could see improvement with each ride. However, for the last three schooling sessions, we have gone backwards and i'm feeling really disheartened and confused. These are the main issues I am encountering - 

*(1) Trot-Canter Transition 
*I apply the aids for canter, set her up well with half-halts, a change of seat from 1-2, 1-2  to 1-2-3, 1-2-3 but all I am getting is an incredibly uncomfortable fast trot, and she may eventually break into canter, or she may not, and if we do get the transition eventually, whether she stays in canter for more than one side of the school is hit and miss.

This was the case from ride 1, and is not something that has developed as with the other problems detailed below. Note, when I tried her out, she was incredibly easy to get into canter, all I had to do was go into sitting trot and pop my outside leg behind the girth and off she went, and maintaining canter was also not an issue. 

*(2) Walk-Halt Transition*
I have been doing plenty of these walk to halt transitions since ride 1. Initially, I was amazed by how sensitive she was to my seat, and could halt at any point of the school with ease. However, for the last three rides, this has gone from bad to impossible. She now just will not halt. I will get an incredibly slow creeping walk, but cannot for the life of me get her to stop. I'm having to use my reins far too much, which is making me feel terribly guilty, but otherwise we will proceed to do three or four VERY slow laps of the school and still not come to a halt.  I really don't understand this change - can anyone shed any light?


*(3) Running me into the wall*

On the right rein, at the top end of the school, almost every time we turn the corner she is walking towards the wall and proceeding to walk super close to it to the point where my leg is millimeters away from being badly scraped. The first few rides she was sliiiightly close to the wall on the right rein, but the last 2 rides it has been really bad. No matter how much outside leg I apply in preparation, I can't seem to prevent this from happening. Again, this is making my hands sharper than usual and I absolutely hate myself for it!

Now, there are several factors that have changed since I first viewed her which may explain the problems, and i'm sure they all contribute in some way to the above, so perhaps I am answering my own questions. I guess i'm just looking for some reassurance or to find out if anyone has had similar experiences particularly within the first couple of weeks of owning a new horse?

_- Change of saddle from the child's saddle I viewed her in (which obviously didn't fit me), to an adult's saddle provided by her previous owner (a reputable riding school) as a temporary measure to tide me over, which does not fit her without a half pad underneath.  I have, in the last three rides, simply ridden bareback, which she seemed a lot happier with (as in she felt more willing to go forward to trot, ears forward, more energy when riding without saddle), as I was not prepared to ride her in the ill-fitting one.  I am  now in the process of finding a decent saddler for a new saddle.

- Change of bit from three ring gag to a straight bar snaffle - she is mouthing the bit a lot and pulling her head down, particularly in trot 

- Smaller indoor school than she is used to

- No longer getting hay, as she is somewhat tubby at the moment, so is she solely having grass currently_ 


Do you think i'm being super harsh on her and she is just finding her feet in a new home? Or do you think she is testing me? I apologise if I sound .. bratty.. if she had been like this from ride 1 I wouldn't have batted an eyelid and would have put it down to the above factors and the settling in period, but I can't seem to shake off the fact that we have gone from really clicking and me feeling like she was really in tune with me, to the complete opposite.

I look forward to any words of wisdom, similar experiences, slaps in the face and otherwise!!:blue:


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## xgemmax (25 October 2016)

I think that you should get a saddler to check the saddle firstly, it may not be comfortable and you say it doesn't fit her without a halfpad, it may be the case that its too tight and restricting which is not helping her transitions to canter.

Secondly the walk to halt transitions, are you just pulling with reins? if so she is probably just pulling back against you, you need to ask more with your seat, so close your knees around her and lean back slightly rather than just pulling the reins.

Thirdly I would find a god instructor to give you lessons once you have a saddle sorted as it is difficult for us to help on here without seeing you or the pony


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## scats (25 October 2016)

Do you have a good instructor?  Best bet is to get some eyes on the ground who can see what it's going on and help you, this will be better than any advice that can be given on a forum.

Just out of curiosity, is she solely being ridden by you now?  Sometimes horses who have been on riding schools and used to doing 2-3 hours work a day (and sometimes more) go through a small teething stage when they go to a one to one home and go from several hours work a day to maybe half an hour.  Several friends have bought ex-riding school and always have a bit of a shock at how different they are after a few weeks in a new routine.

The running into the wall is classic of a horse who is being turned through their neck and not their shoulder.  Your turn should come from your outside aid and it is the shoulder you need to focus on turning, not the neck, the neck is merely flexion to the inside.  Don't be afraid of riding into the corners with your outside lower leg a little further forward than normal, to encourage the shoulder over.  If the horse was falling in, obviously you would reverse this and have the inside leg a little forward.

The mistake people make is they put their leg on too far back and all this does is move the ribcage, which effectively tips the horse more onto the wrong shoulder.

Again, I would get yourself a good instructor.  Perhaps one who will hop on for ten minutes to feel the issues for themselves, this is often much more helpful when they are giving you advice as they have been onboard and witnessed the issue.

Good luck x


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## AmberThePony (25 October 2016)

Sorry to hear you're having problems, it is always so disheartening when everything seems to be going wrong! I had similar problems with my mare at the beginning, she was an absolute pig in the school, this was due to her not being schooled properly for two years and so she just had bad manners. It sounds like the saddle is a factor, but due to her past experience of being in a riding school is it possible she is school sour? If she is I would recommend stopping the schooling and just hacking for a few weeks and then start schooling once a week doing something more interesting like poles or different movements, and hacking the rest. Also I think it might be good to do a bit change, I'm no expert on bitting but I think perhaps if you could try something like a French link snaffle that might be good. Hope this has been of some help, good luck!


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## Olas11 (25 October 2016)

xgemmax said:



			I think that you should get a saddler to check the saddle firstly, it may not be comfortable and you say it doesn't fit her without a halfpad, it may be the case that its too tight and restricting which is not helping her transitions to canter.

Secondly the walk to halt transitions, are you just pulling with reins? if so she is probably just pulling back against you, you need to ask more with your seat, so close your knees around her and lean back slightly rather than just pulling the reins.

Thirdly I would find a god instructor to give you lessons once you have a saddle sorted as it is difficult for us to help on here without seeing you or the pony
		
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Thank you for your response. As I said in my post,  "Initially, I was amazed by how sensitive she was to my seat, and could halt at any point of the school with ease"  - I am a firm believer in using my seat and not my hands, so no, I'm not just pulling with my reins and for the first week we were doing perfect halt transitions    - but now, after 3/4 laps of the school, and still no halt, I am using my reins and getting a response, and I'm upset at having to do so!


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## Amye (25 October 2016)

Agree with the above, definitely get a decent fitting saddle. Have you got an instructor yet? They could help to see if you're doing anything that could be blockin the transition, and help you overcome this.

She could also just be settling in still. You will still be getting used to each other, 2 weeks isn't a very long time and I found with my boy that he seemed perfect to begin with then and then when he felt a bit more confident in himself and his surroundings he started testing me a bit and doing things his way.  

Time of year is also a factor! It's difficult to say without getting saddle checked etc to check if she's uncomfortable. Have you tried putting her back in the old bit and seeing if that makes any difference? When were teeth checked last?


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## Olas11 (25 October 2016)

Thank you so much for your reply!  She is solely being ridden by me, for around a hour 5 x a week. She was being ridden 2-3 times, you're right, so perhaps that is something to do with it!

I will focus more on pushing the shoulder over and positioning my outside leg slightly more forward - thank you for the tip!

I'm definitely going to get an instructor in once every few weeks, but didn't want to do so until I had the saddle sorted! 

Thank you! xx


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## Olas11 (25 October 2016)

Amye said:



			Agree with the above, definitely get a decent fitting saddle. Have you got an instructor yet? They could help to see if you're doing anything that could be blockin the transition, and help you overcome this.

She could also just be settling in still. You will still be getting used to each other, 2 weeks isn't a very long time and I found with my boy that he seemed perfect to begin with then and then when he felt a bit more confident in himself and his surroundings he started testing me a bit and doing things his way.  

Time of year is also a factor! It's difficult to say without getting saddle checked etc to check if she's uncomfortable. Have you tried putting her back in the old bit and seeing if that makes any difference? When were teeth checked last?
		
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Thank you - you're right, my non-horsy OH keeps telling me to give her a break and stop analysing so much as it has only been 2 weeks, and I think he's right!

I haven't actually got the old bit, I told the riding school they could keep it as I was adamant I wanted her in a snaffle.. perhaps snaffles aren't for every horse, or perhaps it's the straight bar that she isn't getting on with. I think I will try her in a loose ring as she does have quite a large tongue! Thank you!


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## Olas11 (25 October 2016)

AmberThePony said:



			Sorry to hear you're having problems, it is always so disheartening when everything seems to be going wrong! I had similar problems with my mare at the beginning, she was an absolute pig in the school, this was due to her not being schooled properly for two years and so she just had bad manners. It sounds like the saddle is a factor, but due to her past experience of being in a riding school is it possible she is school sour? If she is I would recommend stopping the schooling and just hacking for a few weeks and then start schooling once a week doing something more interesting like poles or different movements, and hacking the rest. Also I think it might be good to do a bit change, I'm no expert on bitting but I think perhaps if you could try something like a French link snaffle that might be good. Hope this has been of some help, good luck!
		
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Definitely think you're right re the bit.. she does have a large tongue and perhaps she just isn't liking the straight bar, so yes I think i'll try her in a French link/loose ring.

I also think you have a point re her being school sour, I was so keen on getting her well-schooled from the get-go and I think she needs a bit of fun to be honest! I'm going to hack her out this weekend (weather permitting) and have her let off some steam! Thank you!


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## PaddyMonty (25 October 2016)

Olas11 said:



			H I have, in the last three rides, simply ridden bareback,
		
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Given that the issues have developed over the last 3 rides I'm pretty sure I see the problem here.


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## SEL (25 October 2016)

A child's saddle will be shorter and it could be that a longer saddle is uncomfortable. Bare back isn't always the answer because your weight isn't spread in the same way as a well fitting saddle would do. 

If she was comfortable in her old bit then I'd get one of those and see how she goes. A bit is only as harsh as the hands using it so if she's used to the gag and goes well in it then stick to it.


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## be positive (25 October 2016)

I think this is a combination of several things, the change of bit probably having a significant influence on how she is going and carrying herself, a straight bar snaffle is not suitable for many and will be a big change from the gag, it is probably encouraging her to lean and fall onto her forehand which is why you cannot get into or maintain canter and also struggle to turn or stop, I would get a snaffle with the same mouthpiece as the gag and loose rings as a starting point. 

The other issues of the saddle fit, less work and finding her feet in a new home will all contribute to how she is going, once you get the right bit, a decent saddle and instructor you should find she gets back to being more like the horse you bought but it does take time to get everything right, not being worked as hard and without an instructor constantly on the look out for them taking liberties will allow a few less than ideal habits to quickly show and is very common when buying from a RS possibly worse when they come from a really good one where the instructors or trainees may ride them regularly to school them and keep the training up to scratch.


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## PaddyMonty (25 October 2016)

How many on this board can ride anywhere near as well bareback as in a saddle. OP says she has ridden bareback the last 3 times and it is the last 3 times that the issues have developed. Am I the only one seeing a direct link here?


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## be positive (25 October 2016)

PaddyMonty said:



			How many on this board can ride anywhere near as well bareback as in a saddle. OP says she has ridden bareback the last 3 times and it is the last 3 times that the issues have developed. Am I the only one seeing a direct link here?
		
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It depends on how you read the OP, I took it that since the 3 schooling sessions went badly they have ridden bareback and the pony has been more forward and happy but it could well be as you say that it has gone wrong because of being ridden bareback which as you say will not help with balance etc. maybe the OP will come back and clarify.


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## Leo Walker (25 October 2016)

Olas11 said:



			- Change of bit from three ring gag to a straight bar snaffle - she is mouthing the bit a lot and pulling her head down, particularly in trot
		
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Straight bar snaffles are terrible for giving you a dead feel and giving the horse something to lean on, they give a muffled feel to the horse as well. Change her back into whatever mouthpiece the 3 ring had and I strongly suspect a lot of your stopping and steering problems will resolve themselves.


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## Olas11 (25 October 2016)

PaddyMonty said:



			How many on this board can ride anywhere near as well bareback as in a saddle. OP says she has ridden bareback the last 3 times and it is the last 3 times that the issues have developed. Am I the only one seeing a direct link here?
		
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Apologies, I haven't been completely chronologically accurate - I would say I have ridden her bareback twice, and problem (2) and (3)  started around 4 rides ago, whereas problem (1) was from ride one!


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## Olas11 (25 October 2016)

FrankieCob said:



			Straight bar snaffles are terrible for giving you a dead feel and giving the horse something to lean on, they give a muffled feel to the horse as well. Change her back into whatever mouthpiece the 3 ring had and I strongly suspect a lot of your stopping and steering problems will resolve themselves.
		
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Thank you - I have contacted her seller to find out exactly what the mouthpiece was and will be ordering a new bit straight away. I've even been struggling with 20m circles, as without completely overexaggerated aids, she is simply continuing on the straight.. nothing like the pony I tried! Itching to change this bit, think I will stick with groundwork until it arrives. Thank you!!


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## Leo Walker (25 October 2016)

Olas11 said:



			Thank you - I have contacted her seller to find out exactly what the mouthpiece was and will be ordering a new bit straight away. I've even been struggling with 20m circles, as without completely overexaggerated aids, she is simply continuing on the straight.. nothing like the pony I tried! Itching to change this bit, think I will stick with groundwork until it arrives. Thank you!!
		
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Honestly the only time I ever rode something in a straight bar snaffle it felt exactly the same.


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## Cortez (25 October 2016)

Many things are happening here, but the most saliant is....the training is wearing off.


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## Olas11 (25 October 2016)

Cortez said:



			Many things are happening here, but the most saliant is....the training is wearing off.
		
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Hi, thank you for your response. Not sure I understand, however. She was from a riding school and was ridden by total beginners..said riding school have over 30 horses and ponies and she wasn't regularly ridden by anyone other than the novice students. She was a particular favourite among novice children due to her being very honest, bombproof and somewhat of a plod if not ridden well - far from having received thorough/regular 'training' that she is somehow able to forget within 11 days of being ridden by me?  I am not a complete novice by any stretch of the imagination.  Maybe i'm missing something and my post screams 'she has no idea how to ride' but i'd like to know how this seems to be the most saliant cause of our issues?


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## Sparemare (25 October 2016)

Out of interest OP, did you know this riding school before you bought your mare?  I can think of several dealers who have a riding school and advertise their horses as being 'riding school horses' when in fact they have merely been schooled hard for a few weeks having been brought over from Ireland a couple of month earlier.


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## Theocat (25 October 2016)

Horse might be taking the mick.

Saddle /bareback may not suit her.

Horse may have some sort of tweak/injury.

I'd be calling on an instructor, saddler and then vet, in that order and depending on what each finds. 

TBH, if horse was going well in one set of tack, then you changed the tack and horse deteriorated, I'd stick it back in the old tack pronto until you can get a saddler. You may not think it fitted, but the horse may disagree!


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## Olas11 (25 October 2016)

Sparemare said:



			Out of interest OP, did you know this riding school before you bought your mare?  I can think of several dealers who have a riding school and advertise their horses as being 'riding school horses' when in fact they have merely been schooled hard for a few weeks having been brought over from Ireland a couple of month earlier.
		
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I did actually, it's a very well-known riding school in that area and the owner has a great reputation both for her school and her selection of horses/ponies for sale. They don't let a client buy on the first visit, and they also have the horses in the riding school for at least 6 months before selling on..And they in fact eventually sell all of their horses. Thank you though!


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## Olas11 (25 October 2016)

Theocat said:



			Horse might be taking the mick.

Saddle /bareback may not suit her.

Horse may have some sort of tweak/injury.

I'd be calling on an instructor, saddler and then vet, in that order and depending on what each finds. 

TBH, if horse was going well in one set of tack, then you changed the tack and horse deteriorated, I'd stick it back in the old tack pronto until you can get a saddler. You may not think it fitted, but the horse may disagree!
		
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Thank you for your advice, I will definitely be following that line of action and in that order, although I did think of waiting til I had a saddler out before getting an instructor, but perhaps instructor should come first.

I am kicking myself for having asked the seller for a loan of an adult's saddle, as I was sure it would've been cruel and uncomfortable to ride in a child's saddle, but I guess it must have fitted her back well! Thanks


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## Cortez (26 October 2016)

Olas11 said:



			Hi, thank you for your response. Not sure I understand, however. She was from a riding school and was ridden by total beginners..said riding school have over 30 horses and ponies and she wasn't regularly ridden by anyone other than the novice students. She was a particular favourite among novice children due to her being very honest, bombproof and somewhat of a plod if not ridden well - far from having received thorough/regular 'training' that she is somehow able to forget within 11 days of being ridden by me?  I am not a complete novice by any stretch of the imagination.  Maybe i'm missing something and my post screams 'she has no idea how to ride' but i'd like to know how this seems to be the most saliant cause of our issues?
		
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Even if the horse did not have regular training from more advanced riders, she will have been corrected in the course of lessons and not allowed to deviate from the instructions. Training, unless constantly reinforced, will start to "wear off" - or new behaviours substituted if you prefer - within days. A good instructor will help you to get the reponses you want and remind the horse of her training.

The other posters have offered other factors that may be adding to your problems. All good advice. Best of luck with your new horse!


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## Olas11 (26 October 2016)

Cortez said:



			Even if the horse did not have regular training from more advanced riders, she will have been corrected in the course of lessons and not allowed to deviate from the instructions. Training, unless constantly reinforced, will start to "wear off" - or new behaviours substituted if you prefer - within days. A good instructor will help you to get the reponses you want and remind the horse of her training.

The other posters have offered other factors that may be adding to your problems. All good advice. Best of luck with your new horse!
		
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Having been a volunteer at local riding schools during much of my youth, I am quite certain that novicey children's lessons consist of the instructor focusing primarily on the child's basic position, use of reins and legs, and basic upward/downward transitions, rather than correcting the horse's way of going.. Although saying that, I will have an instructor assess us, and I am almost hoping it is myself that is the issue as otherwise will likely be harder to fix! Thank you


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## laura_nash (26 October 2016)

Olas11 said:



*(1) Trot-Canter Transition 
*I apply the aids for canter, set her up well with half-halts, a change of seat from 1-2, 1-2  to 1-2-3, 1-2-3 but all I am getting is an incredibly uncomfortable fast trot, and she may eventually break into canter, or she may not, and if we do get the transition eventually, whether she stays in canter for more than one side of the school is hit and miss.

This was the case from ride 1, and is not something that has developed as with the other problems detailed below. Note, when I tried her out, she was incredibly easy to get into canter, all I had to do was go into sitting trot and pop my outside leg behind the girth and off she went, and maintaining canter was also not an issue.
		
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Hi, you've had lots of good advice already.  Just one thing to add, I have a gypsy cob and he was very prone to this (refusing to canter) when I got him if he didn't feel he had enough space to canter.  Perfect transition in a big school, nothing doing in a small one.  Once he got fitter and better balanced the problem went.  You mentioned that your school is smaller than where she came from, does she do the same if you ask for canter out on a hack or in a field?


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## Olas11 (26 October 2016)

laura_nash said:



			Hi, you've had lots of good advice already.  Just one thing to add, I have a gypsy cob and he was very prone to this (refusing to canter) when I got him if he didn't feel he had enough space to canter.  Perfect transition in a big school, nothing doing in a small one.  Once he got fitter and better balanced the problem went.  You mentioned that your school is smaller than where she came from, does she do the same if you ask for canter out on a hack or in a field?
		
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I haven't yet been on a fast hack with her (just a few brief ambles), but will be taking her out this weekend and will see what she's like cantering then! Thank you for your response, definitely reassuring to know


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