# Towing a caravan with a 3.5t horsebox - legal?



## montanna (30 May 2014)

Bear with me here, as I know very, very little about this, and am hoping to gather some facts/research before presenting OH with my findings!!! Before he shoots me down and says what a stupid idea it is etc etc. It may well be a stupid idea, but hey, I gotta try!

I have a lovely little four year old who is showing great promise  I hope to stay away at a few BS shows towards the end of summer before we hopefully start BE next year. I will probably only stay away 3 or 4 times a year, if that! Although, maybe more if this plan works out.

I have a 3.5t van conversion horsebox on a 08 plate Vauxhall Movano chassis. It has day living but nowhere to sleep. I have the living totally blocked off from the horse area for safety reasons, so sleeping in the horse area isnt do-able either. I am 24, passed my test in 2007 so havent got my trailer licence, just a B licence? I think. I absolutely love my little lorry, it costs next to nothing in diesel, to insure, tax etc. It starts first time every time after being left for weeks on end, doesnt need plating etc.

Trying to look at the bigger picture, I need a little bit of help with regards to accommodation! I dont like the idea of camping in a tent incase the weather is shocking (very likely) also I am quite grotty if I dont have enough sleep so the OH will not take kindly to coming away with me, sleeping (barely) in a tent and then having to put up with my vile temper all weekend. The only other thing we can do is book a hotel, which although preferable to camping, isnt ideal as I would like to be onsite incase any problems arise with horse!

I was wondering if it was possible/legal/safe to tow a small caravan behind my horsebox if I had a tow bar fitted/took my trailer test? My box is front wheel drive, 6 speed, has a payload of 1180kg with a full tank of fuel, I only carry one horse (15.3hh lightweight KWPN so approx. 500kg, maybe just over), and then its me and OH (55kg/80kg) but would obviously have lots of bits and bobs I wouldnt usually carry on board if we were staying over, however some things could maybe go in the caravan? I have a side ramp so horse would be able to be unloaded in an emergency.

So does anyone do this? Or is it a completely ridiculous idea? Pros and cons would be great, if it is even legal/safe that is!


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## EstherYoung (30 May 2014)

They tow pretty well


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## montanna (30 May 2014)

EstherYoung said:



			They tow pretty well 

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That's good to know. I was a little worried about that, as the box is FWD...

Obviously I know that I can't exceed 3.5t on my horsebox alone, but are there other weight implications when towing? Just concerned, surely it's not legal to load my lorry up to it's max weight and then tow behind it aswell...


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## The Fuzzy Furry (30 May 2014)

If you have the right licence then its fine to tow  (eg, if you have a newer licence that entitles you to 3.5t then you cannot tow more than 750kg trailer, without taking a further test. 
If you have the pre 97 test to drive 7.5t, you can tow combined weight up to 7.5t, (provided the towed vehicle is within VOSA regs)

We do this with our LWB race van & long caravan behind, van fully loaded to 3.5 and caravan fully loaded too

With horses, you need to have a side ramp if towing (which you have).

Note: trailer or caravan must not be over 7metres.


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## montanna (30 May 2014)

The Fuzzy Furry said:



			If you have the right licence then its fine to tow  (eg, if you have a newer licence that entitles you to 3.5t then you cannot tow more than 750kg trailer, without taking a further test. 
If you have the pre 97 test to drive 7.5t, you can tow combined weight up to 7.5t, (provided the towed vehicle is within VOSA regs)

We do this with our LWB race van & long caravan behind, van fully loaded to 3.5 and caravan fully loaded too

With horses, you need to have a side ramp if towing (which you have).

Note: trailer or caravan must not be over 7metres.
		
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I have a new licence - so does this mean on my current licence I am able to tow a caravan up to 750kg without taking further tests? Even with a fully laden 3.5t lorry? Is it even possible to get a caravan that weighs less than this?


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## humblepie (30 May 2014)

Before I had a lorry with living, I have bed and breakfasted off the showground on a farm or livery yard so the horse could be stabled at the same place.  Generally just search for livery yards or farmhouse B & Bs in the area.  Works well as generally nice and quiet and makes it almost a mini holiday but does mean that for the show day/days you are not stabled on site so like just being there for a day show.


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## ROG (30 May 2014)

On your current B licence you can tow a 750 kgs plated MAM caravan behind your 3500 GVW horsebox







OK, that's a pro set up on a B licence but you can find many caravans with a max MTPLM of 750 kgs

here are some - http://www.caravanclub.co.uk/news-a...isure-trailer-awards/caravans-750kg-and-under


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## montanna (30 May 2014)

Oh my gosh, Rog that's amazing! I was thinking I was going to need to take a test. Sorry for being thick, but what is a plated MAM?

That equitrek trailer is fab - I've just had a little google, apparently it's called a 'trek away' - http://www.equi-trek.com/uk/horse-trailers/trek-away/gallery - it is however £8,000!!! If anyone has one second hand please PM me  

I'm off to google lightweight caravans. Is there anything else I need to know?


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## montanna (30 May 2014)

Another question - how much will it cost to have a towbar fitted on my box?


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## Feisty Mare (30 May 2014)

Roughly £400 to get a towbar fitted, but for exact quote, go to the Witter website as you can search by make and model or vehicle reg and get price and buy/book online. Used this myself and excellent customer service (including when I had a problem over a year down the line, all sorted v quickly under warranty free of charge)


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## ROG (30 May 2014)

GVW MAM MTPLM all have the same meaning for licencing purposes - the maximum legal weight something can be when fully loaded

All of those weights are usually on metal plates

Licences work on those weights


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## The Fuzzy Furry (30 May 2014)

The caravans have MAM numbers as they are braked.

Dont skip on the tow bar fitting as you will not just need electrics for lights on the rear of the caravan (12n) but also so your caravan can charge as you go along too (12s).
Legally you dont need 12s, but if you are going to the expense of having a tow bar fitted, then its worth getting the electrics sorted properly.
You'll need to check height too for tow bar, as to what type you fit - ball or swan neck.
Its not always the vehicle you have to match to, but also the type of vehicle you are pulling - we've changed tow hitch to correspond with the caravan to adjust to height etc.

Ref the caravan, we had a 1990's caravan - A Sprite Europa 3 berth that was exactly 750, but am sure it was much heavier once we had filled fridge, but bedding in etc... It was so easy to move about when not hitched, but that was about 10yrs ago+.
Most recent one was 1450 & a bit of an ar5e to move without the motor mover, but it did have central heating,double glazing,shower etc, mmm lovely 
I dont think you'll get any modern one at that weight (except the posh-equi type one). Try looking for 1990's caravans 2 or possibly 3 berth. Remember to get anything damp tested, its a misery if they leak or seep and you dont notice till mildew is over everything a short while later.......

Check on caravan insurance before buying, some companies wont insure unless at your own place (home or yard) except on storage depots.

Or, get a camper van & a good Ifor or similar trailer


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## mutley75 (30 May 2014)

Put a sleeper pod on it like all the eastern European 3.5 tonners you see everywhere? they weigh less than 150kg's.


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## montanna (30 May 2014)

Thanks for your replies, they really are super helpful and much appreciated. Will be printing this off! I will look into the tow bar, will definitely take into account the electric fitting. As you say, no point in skimping on it. Probably worth finding a caravan first if it may need amending?

As I only travel one horse, who is a super traveller, we can load the horsebox up to it&#8217;s full weight with all the bits and pieces (would have had to do this anyway if we were camping) and leave the caravan empty. We can stack extra boxes of equipment secured with bungees on the far side of the partition, and travel her on the ramp side (incase we need to unload her quickly). Bedding/clothes can be stored in the boxes or above the cab. Horse equipment/wheelbarrow/mucking out tools can go in the day living. Things for the fridge can travel in the living in cool boxes until we get there and then be transferred to fridge. So technically, we don&#8217;t need to load up 

I have access to a weighbridge at any time so think I would do a dry run and check weights and things beforehand, just conscious that all these little bits and pieces you take away really do add up. I can play about with what can and can&#8217;t go where, and will help me pack light if anything!

LOL about the central heating/double glazing etc, although this would be lovely, I definitely don&#8217;t need anything brand spanking or flashy, just something sound &#8211; it can be as basic as anything really, literally just somewhere to stay dry and get our heads down for the night. Although I would love the little equi trek number, I don&#8217;t think it warrants £8k.. that&#8217;s a lot of hotel rooms over the years!!!!! 

Caravan would be kept at parents house (huge driveway) as long as they don&#8217;t mind an old unsightly caravan!!! Will look into insurance etc.


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## ROG (30 May 2014)

You will be able to load quite a bit in the caravan - the weight you can put in it is the difference between the MIRO and MTPLM weights


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## ROG (30 May 2014)

With a towbar fitted correctly you can then use that to have the horsebox towed out of a muddy bit by a 4x4 then have the caravan towed out separately as well if the need arises


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## stimpy (30 May 2014)

mutley75 said:



			Put a sleeper pod on it like all the eastern European 3.5 tonners you see everywhere? they weigh less than 150kg's.
		
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Never heard of this but as someone who has to sleep in the horse part of a 3.5T I am liking the sound of it! Do you have any links to share?


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## ROG (30 May 2014)

stimpy said:



			Never heard of this but as someone who has to sleep in the horse part of a 3.5T I am liking the sound of it! Do you have any links to share?
		
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http://www.kudauk.ltd.uk/shop/?cid=416


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## stimpy (30 May 2014)

ROG said:



http://www.kudauk.ltd.uk/shop/?cid=416

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Thanks ROG!


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## Barlow (25 December 2016)

With apologies for resurrecting an old thread (love the search facility!) and double apologies for posting on Christmas Day (waiting for the rest of the family to surface!) please could someone help my confused thoughts!

I have a post 1997 standard licence so am limited to a 3.5t lorry plus a 750kg trailer. I am thinking about towing a micro caravan (unladen weight c.300kg) behind a 3.5t horsebox which for the sale of argument has a payload of 1t. Assuming once I have horse on board etc I am left with 250kg of payload in the van can I a) load up van with 250kg or load up caravan with 250kg,  b) load up van with 250kg and put up to 450kg in the caravan, c) not tow the caravan because I would be 50kg over the 3.5t limit of van, or does weight of the unladen caravan not count? Sorry, I am so confused and wondering if I'm going about this in the wrong way!!!


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## ROG (25 December 2016)

Barlow said:



			With apologies for resurrecting an old thread (love the search facility!) and double apologies for posting on Christmas Day (waiting for the rest of the family to surface!) please could someone help my confused thoughts!

I have a post 1997 standard licence so am limited to a 3.5t lorry plus a 750kg trailer. I am thinking about towing a micro caravan (unladen weight c.300kg) behind a 3.5t horsebox which for the sale of argument has a payload of 1t. Assuming once I have horse on board etc I am left with 250kg of payload in the van can I a) load up van with 250kg or load up caravan with 250kg,  b) load up van with 250kg and put up to 450kg in the caravan, c) not tow the caravan because I would be 50kg over the 3.5t limit of van, or does weight of the unladen caravan not count? Sorry, I am so confused and wondering if I'm going about this in the wrong way!!!
		
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3.5 tonne GVW/MAM horsebox
empty 2750 = guess unless you weighbridge it to get exact weight empty
Horse 500
driver + passenger + other stuff = max 250
That is the horsebox sorted

Caravan
Max plated MTPLM/MAM 750
empty/MIRO 300
Max load for caravan 450

All legal on B licence


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## ROG (25 December 2016)

the 3.5 tonne limit - 3500kg - is for the vehicle only when a trailer no more than a plated weight of 750kg is being towed on a B licence so a total of 4250 = legal 

Once the trailer goes over 750 plated weight the max 3500 rule comes into force for B towing


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## Barlow (25 December 2016)

ROG thank you so much, that is unbelievably helpful! I am thinking about adding the micro caravan to give me some living in a canvan combo but it didn't seem worth it if the maximum combination of the van plus caravan could be no more than 3500kgs but it seems it can be 4250


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## ROG (25 December 2016)

Barlow said:



			ROG thank you so much, that is unbelievably helpful! I am thinking about adding the micro caravan to give me some living in a canvan combo but it didn't seem worth it if the maximum combination of the van plus caravan could be no more than 3500kgs but it seems it can be 4250 

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What is the plated MTPLM/MAM weight of the caravan ?


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## Barlow (25 December 2016)

No idea! I am looking at something like the go pod set up


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## Barlow (25 December 2016)

Have found it through google MTPLM is 750kg and MIRO is 480kg


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## Tyssandi (25 December 2016)

montanna said:



			Another question - how much will it cost to have a towbar fitted on my box?
		
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depends on who you use, my 4x4  was around £ 200 to have one fitted, I use Jim's Towbars as they are mobile fitters.http://www.jimstowbars.co.uk/
 Or there is Watlington Engineers    
http://www.watling-towbars.co.uk/towbars.html
 it depends on where you are

OP  I need to thank you too - for the last 2 weeks  hubby asked me what I wanted and I said it was something for horsebox I could not think of the other thing

1] new tyres
2]cctv   
3]    I could not remember and racking my brain over and over, now you mentioning tow bars made my brain think tow bars and my one fitted linked to Electric hook up    **** BANG!!!****

That is the third thing I have been trying to remember


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## ROG (26 December 2016)

Barlow said:



			Have found it through google MTPLM is 750kg and MIRO is 480kg
		
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Perfect weight wise

Some more ideas at 750 MTPLM = http://caravans.autotrader.co.uk/used-caravans/freedom


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## Red-1 (26 December 2016)

We had a look at this, but a VOSA tester told us that we would need a tachograph fitted also to do this, as it is over the combined train length. 

He said that he sees many people not dong this, but they are being stopped and prosecuted.


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## ROG (26 December 2016)

Red-1 said:



			We had a look at this, but a VOSA tester told us that we would need a tachograph fitted also to do this, as it is over the combined train length. 

He said that he sees many people not dong this, but they are being stopped and prosecuted.
		
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What rot

A tacho is only needed for commercial use not private use when the total plated MAM combination is not over 7500kgs - that is the law


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## popsdosh (26 December 2016)

ROG said:



			What rot

A tacho is only needed for commercial use not private use when the total plated MAM combination is not over 7500kgs - that is the law
		
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Maybe Red-1 was talking about a 7.5 ton vehicle in which case it does as any trailer on such a vehicle would cause the need for a Tacho. However agree not for a 3.5 ton plus trailer for non commercial use.


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## The Fuzzy Furry (26 December 2016)

ROG said:



			What rot

A tacho is only needed for commercial use not private use when the total plated MAM combination is not over 7500kgs - that is the law
		
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Exactly, husband and I both tow with 3.5t vehicles privately with no legal requirement for tacho.

However, when DH has to do work stuff towing, he has to take their van as it has to have tacho in - for business use.


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## Red-1 (26 December 2016)

In which case we may one day be buying a caravan. It is what the VOSA man said when my van was tested. He specifically warned against towing, despite us using the van for private use only. I am glad he was wrong, if that is so.


ETA - Or would it be different as we had ours uprated to 3.9 tonnes???


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## ROG (26 December 2016)

Red-1 said:



			In which case we may one day be buying a caravan. It is what the VOSA man said when my van was tested. He specifically warned against towing, despite us using the van for private use only. I am glad he was wrong, if that is so.


ETA - Or would it be different as we had ours uprated to 3.9 tonnes???
		
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At 3.9 GVW you would need a LGV C1 licence
To tow a trailer over 750kgs plated MTPLM/MAM you would need a LGV C1+E licence
The trailer would need to be more than 3.6 tonnes MAM towing with a 3.9 to come into tacho/EU regs 
Under a total of 7.5 tonnes for private use = exempt tacho/EU regs


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