# A lovely family day out!



## Fantastic_Mr_Fox (21 March 2010)

Two young boys have been left in shock after witnessing their family pet being ripped apart by hunt hounds in Northern Ireland.

The incident happened on Saturday morning when the boys were out walking their dog, Pip, near Newry. The out of control hounds, believed to be from the Newry Harriers, ripped their dog apart right in front of their eyes. A member of the hunt then threw the remaining parts of the dog into a hedge.

The incident has led to calls from the USPCA calling for the new Animal Welfare Bill to introduce changes to make hunts more liable for the action of their hounds.

The League Against Cruel Sports Northern Ireland Campaigner Mary Friel said: This is absolutely appalling and its hard to imagine how distressing this must have been for the two boys involved. We wholeheartedly support the USPCAs calls for hunts to take more responsibility for their actions.


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## Mike007 (21 March 2010)

As a dedicated hunting person ,you wont find me disagreeing with you IF its true.However no new bill is needed as the law applys equaly to everyone.


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## Scratchline (22 March 2010)

Mike007 said:



			As a dedicated hunting person ,you wont find me disagreeing with you IF its true.However no new bill is needed as the law applys equaly to everyone.
		
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WTF is wrong with you people 'IF', it is true?!!!!!!!!! YES it is true! As the law stands the hunt are not responsible for the actions of the hounds which is simply shocking in such situations. To make matters far worse when the huntsman got off his horse and threw the poor dog in the hedge he was asked by the boys 'is our dog dead'. He replied 'yes', got back on his horse and rode away leaving the poor children stood there traumatised.


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## Eagle_day (22 March 2010)

".... IF its true."

The above report is cut and pasted from LACS' website so indeed you should suspend judgement.


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## muffinino (22 March 2010)

Scratchline said:



			WTF is wrong with you people 'IF', it is true?!!!!!!!!! YES it is true! As the law stands the hunt are not responsible for the actions of the hounds which is simply shocking in such situations. To make matters far worse when the huntsman got off his horse and threw the poor dog in the hedge he was asked by the boys 'is our dog dead'. He replied 'yes', got back on his horse and rode away leaving the poor children stood there traumatised.
		
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How do you know this is true? How do you know what the huntsman allegedly did? Were you there?

I very much doubt that hounds would attack a dog in this way; they know the difference between a fox and a dog, they're not stupid. Even if they did, I do not believe that a huntsman would act in such a way, especially towards children. Has anybody got a statement from the hunt itself? I don't know why I'm even bothering to argue against this obvious bit of LACS propoganda nonsense, but someone has to point out the obvious, I suppose. The fact that you've resorted to personal insults against posters who have doubted the authenticity of the report says it all to me.


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## Christmas Crumpet (22 March 2010)

LACS are a bunch of idiots as far as I'm concerned and I would believe very little of what is put on their website. They obviously realised they had gone one step too far when they had the picture of the calf that had supposedly been savaged, killed and half eaten by hounds on the website. When challenged, that picture suddenly disappeared and hasn't been seen since. If the hounds really had done it surely the picture would have stayed.

Another issue that proves what idiots LACS are are the two badger cases to do with the South Dorset terrierman which they were sure they were going to win.  The charges were to do with interference of a badger sett and video evidence shown in court showed quite clearly a LACS member interfering with said badger setts trying to make it look as though it was the terrierman who had interfered with them and said LACS member also was shown spreading peanuts around the holes in an effort to lure back the badgers to unoccupied setts so they could get a conviction. I know this is true because I have seen the video evidence. 

Needless to say after this video had been shown in court both cases were dropped but at a cost of £250,000 to the taxpayer because the prosecution had to pay costs for both sides.

What a waste of time and money for absolutely no result. Funnily enough - there is nothing on the LACS website about these 2 cases. I wonder why!! They are normally so vocal about the injustice's of the hunting world!!


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## Camel (22 March 2010)

with (a bit!) of respect ... why on earth _wouldn't_ someone question the autheticity of a paragraph on an internet forum without even a sniff of a clue where it came from!

xx


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## Dirtymare (22 March 2010)

Mr Fox seems to to take great pleasure in winding people up!!!!


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## muffinino (22 March 2010)

Dirtymare said:



			Mr Fox seems to to take great pleasure in winding people up!!!!
		
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Indeed. But pointing out the silliness of it passes the time on a wet Monday afternoon!


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## combat_claire (22 March 2010)

Dirtymare said:



			Mr Fox seems to to take great pleasure in winding people up!!!!
		
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If you challenge him to a serious debate he just runs away like a big girls blouse!


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## combat_claire (22 March 2010)

Now this is a really good day out for the family:

http://www.leics.gov.uk/index/commu.../meltonmuseum_events/meltonmuseum_hunting.htm


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## Dirtymare (22 March 2010)

muffinino said:



			Indeed. But pointing out the silliness of it passes the time on a wet Monday afternoon!
		
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Ooo, sorry to hear you have rain.
We have a lovely afternoon here.


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## muffinino (22 March 2010)

Dirtymare said:



			Ooo, sorry to hear you have rain.
We have a lovely afternoon here.
		
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S'alright, i live in Wales, we expect it here!


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## Scratchline (22 March 2010)

Eagle_day said:



			".... IF its true."

The above report is cut and pasted from LACS' website so indeed you should suspend judgement.
		
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You mean you can search for the origin of the post but not check out the actual stories origin and truthfullness??


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## Scratchline (22 March 2010)

muffinino said:



			How do you know this is true? How do you know what the huntsman allegedly did? Were you there?

I very much doubt that hounds would attack a dog in this way; they know the difference between a fox and a dog, they're not stupid. Even if they did, I do not believe that a huntsman would act in such a way, especially towards children. Has anybody got a statement from the hunt itself? I don't know why I'm even bothering to argue against this obvious bit of LACS propoganda nonsense, but someone has to point out the obvious, I suppose. The fact that you've resorted to personal insults against posters who have doubted the authenticity of the report says it all to me.
		
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Are you accusing the poor children of making this up because I have listened to what they said and have no reason to doubt them?! The attack has been reported by the BBC and not LACS. As for a statement from the hunt sadly following the recent gyrocopter case it would appear hunt members tend to lie in large numbers.


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## Scratchline (22 March 2010)

MrsO said:



			with (a bit!) of respect ... why on earth _wouldn't_ someone question the autheticity of a paragraph on an internet forum without even a sniff of a clue where it came from!

xx
		
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With full respect it is not difficult to check the story out for oneself before posting a biased negative comment on an opening post x x


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## Scratchline (22 March 2010)

On a happier note the chidren have been donated a new puppy.


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## Lollii (22 March 2010)

Scratchline said:



			Are you accusing the poor children of making this up because I have listened to what they said and have no reason to doubt them?! The attack has been reported by the BBC and not LACS. As for a statement from the hunt sadly following the recent gyrocopter case it would appear hunt members tend to lie in large numbers.
		
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No ...It is not the 'poor children' making it up it is the anti's, they are always making up stories about the hunts around here ... nobody takes any notice of them anymore, they talk rubbish


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## muffinino (22 March 2010)

Scratchline said:



			Are you accusing the poor children of making this up because I have listened to what they said and have no reason to doubt them?! The attack has been reported by the BBC and not LACS. As for a statement from the hunt sadly following the recent gyrocopter case it would appear hunt members tend to lie in large numbers.
		
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Link to the original story please.

How have the hunt followers lied? There was video evidence for all to see, no need to fake a gyrocopter being driven towards a defensless man and his head being opened up, it was recorded on film.

I'm not accusing the children of anything, you're putting words into my mouth to be inflammatory, please don't. I am perfectly capable of inflaming myself, thank you.

Besides, I have no qualms 'accusing the poor children' (won't somebody think of the children?!) if I think that what has been written is a lie. For a start, children are very adept at lying and/or imagining things and can be quite devious if they need to be (so no different to adults, really), so I would question them if I thought they were lying. Secondly, I will not accept a random story that's written on an internet forum with no evidence as the truth, so I don't know that these poor angels even exist. If you can bring some evidence into play, and not just an anecdote with no link to a story, then people will be more inclined to believe you.


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## muffinino (22 March 2010)

Scratchline said:



			With full respect it is not difficult to check the story out for oneself before posting a biased negative comment on an opening post x x
		
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If it's not difficult, then why don't you put a  link to the BBC story up so that people are able to make a more informed decision?


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## Scratchline (22 March 2010)

Sorry dont know how to do links but you can google the story or get it from the BBC. 
200 huntspeople complained about low flying which was proven to not be the case. Hunt Master Charmian Green lied and was caught out doing so in court. The film didnt show what you have described. That came from the red tops hence the verdict.






			Secondly, I will not accept a random story that's written on an internet forum with no evidence as the truth, so I don't know that these poor angels even exist. If you can bring some evidence into play, and not just an anecdote with no link to a story, then people will be more inclined to believe you. 




			I wouldnt post without checking it out first as anybody could do.
		
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## Scratchline (22 March 2010)

muffinino said:



			If it's not difficult, then why don't you put a  link to the BBC story up so that people are able to make a more informed decision?
		
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As I dont know how, no other reason I can assure you.


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## muffinino (22 March 2010)

Scratchline said:



			Sorry dont know how to do links but you can google the story or get it from the BBC. 
200 huntspeople complained about low flying which was proven to not be the case. Hunt Master Charmian Green lied and was caught out doing so in court. The film didnt show what you have described. That came from the red tops hence the verdict.






			Secondly, I will not accept a random story that's written on an internet forum with no evidence as the truth, so I don't know that these poor angels even exist. If you can bring some evidence into play, and not just an anecdote with no link to a story, then people will be more inclined to believe you. 




			I wouldnt post without checking it out first as anybody could do.
		
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Not low flying? How on Earth did his head get split open, then? Did he jump? I think not.

Really? You can post on a forum but can't figure out how to put a link to a story? That's unusual. Go to the page with the story, right click on the address at the top, create a post, right click again and paste.

Come on, now, that's not how forums work. People react to what's posted, especially the first few posts, that's the nature of them.
		
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## muffinino (22 March 2010)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8575497.stm

Got it.

OK, apparently it is true, according to the that link. However, considering the biased reporting, the last two sentences are appallingly bad considering the BBC are supposed to be impartial, and the fact it says 'brought' a new puppy, I have serious doubts about the truth of this story and the credentials of the journalist who wrote it.


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## j17bow (22 March 2010)

I doubt this is true - hounds are the most obedient and socially secure dogs I know, they never start on other dogs and they would not just jump out of a hedge and attack another canine. More likely the hounds jumped out and the dog started on them, ended up in a fight and lost and the story has been turned around.


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## Lollii (22 March 2010)

This is a load of rubbish, hounds would not attack another dog like that, I wanted to email the BBC to ask where they heard about this story, all I get is this: 'The BBC is not responsible for the content of external internet sites.'


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## Scratchline (22 March 2010)

Not low flying? How on Earth did his head get split open, then? Did he jump? I think not.

Really? You can post on a forum but can't figure out how to put a link to a story? That's unusual. Go to the page with the story, right click on the address at the top, create a post, right click again and paste.

Come on, now, that's not how forums work. People react to what's posted, especially the first few posts, that's the nature of them.
		
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I will put my link in ( thanks for telling me how), and see if it works.

No need for the comment about the low flying but each to their own.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8575497.stm


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## Scratchline (22 March 2010)

My link isnt a link me thinks


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## CorvusCorax (23 March 2010)

Actually, they were 'brought' a new puppy, Stephen Philpott from the USPCA delivered them a new puppy to their home, as captured by the TV cameras in a later bulletin.

Tis a pity the alleged five pieces which remained of the dog have not been recovered, that could make it a pretty cut and dried case. Maybe they have and the USPCA is preparing a case, who knows.

I am a hunt supporter, I have ridden to hounds and I car follow, but if this is true then I am most disappointed, I cannot see how the incident or the hunt's reaction can be justified and it is not the first case of hounds here killing a family pet, like it or not.
I am also disappointed no members of the hunt have been prepared to speak out on this.

Muffinino I can ask the journalist if you want? PM me. I personally do not doubt his credentials.


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## CorvusCorax (23 March 2010)

Actually you can see Philpott delivering the pup on the VT if you watch it, that was the bulletin I was talking about.
And the reporter gives his name at the end, so you shouldn't have a problem contacting him via the BBC. 
It should have been the hunt delivering a new puppy really, if the story is true.


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## LauraWheeler (23 March 2010)

I'm sorry but those boys don't look traumatised to me. How could they talk on camera just a few days after the insedent and not be in bits. Oh and they seem to be over there loss when the new puppy arrived.  
Storys like this have been made up about hunts all over and proven to be faulse. This one seems just like the others to me i'm afraid.


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## vallin (23 March 2010)

OK as much as this may well be a load of b*** I personally see no reasons that hunts shouldn't be responsible for their hounds. I am pro hunts, but with that comes a responsibility to the wider community, one part of which is being responsible for the hounds, no?


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## Scratchline (23 March 2010)

LauraWheeler said:



			I'm sorry but those boys don't look traumatised to me. How could they talk on camera just a few days after the insedent and not be in bits. Oh and they seem to be over there loss when the new puppy arrived.  
Storys like this have been made up about hunts all over and proven to be faulse. This one seems just like the others to me i'm afraid.
		
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Kate and Gerry McCann were seen to be laughing, smiling and jogging a few days after they lost their daughter, not in bits.


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## Scratchline (23 March 2010)

CaveCanem said:



			Actually, they were 'brought' a new puppy, .
		
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If the family didnt pay for it wasnt it donated to them then?


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## LauraWheeler (23 March 2010)

Scratchline said:



			Kate and Gerry McCann were seen to be laughing, smiling and jogging a few days after they lost their daughter, not in bits.
		
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I thought that was worse than this. I have my suspitions over what happened there aswell but thats a different matter. 
I have been distressed over my pony being very very ill, when the vets gave her a less than 50% chance my whole world fell apart. I dread to think what it will be like when she actualy goes. and if it was my daughter who was kidnapped and poss murdered i would not be laughing and joking a few days later but as i said that was is a diffrent matter.
I have my suspitions over this story and i was just stating why. I do think hunts should be responsable for what the hounds do and all the hunts i know would be but i also know this would never happen, as has been stated already hounds arn't stupid they would not kill another dog.


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## CorvusCorax (23 March 2010)

Scratchline said:



			If the family didnt pay for it wasnt it donated to them then?
		
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Yes. I think the poster thought that the person who wrote the web piece wrote 'brought' as a mispelling of 'bought' - common enough, my OH makes the error in speech all the time.
What I mean is that 'brought' was correct - the puppy was no doubt 'brought' to the family from one of the USPCA's rescue centres in Benvarden or Carryduff, not 'bought' for the family by the charity.


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## muffinino (23 March 2010)

CaveCanem said:



			Yes. I think the poster thought that the person who wrote the web piece wrote 'brought' as a mispelling of 'bought' - common enough, my OH makes the error in speech all the time.
What I mean is that 'brought' was correct - the puppy was no doubt 'brought' to the family from one of the USPCA's rescue centres in Benvarden or Carryduff, not 'bought' for the family by the charity.
		
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I can see that's correct now, I couldn't watch the video and thought that the puppy had been bought for them. People frequently use 'brought' instead of 'bought' on here and it seems to be a common mistake, lol.

However, I stand by what I said about the final couple of lines being far too emotional and inappropriate for a BBC report. When I looked at the page there was no reporter's name on there which I thought was very odd, I'm not sure if one has been added now?

I agree that hunts should be in control of hounds however, there are often posts on here claiming that hunts have acted badly - such as the one about the Gelligaer leaving a hound impaled on a fence, which I know for fact to be untrue - so I am inclined to disbelieve such posts until there is proof to the contrary. What I don't like is posters getting personally insulting towards members questioning the validity of posts such as the OP, which have no supporting evidence or reference to where the story comes from.


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## CorvusCorax (23 March 2010)

He says his name at the end of the video report, his name is Gordon Adair and I am sure you could be put in touch with him if you write or email Broadcasting House in Belfast.
There will rarely be a television reporter's name/byline on a 'written' web news piece unless it is a feature written for the BBC's website by a dedicated web reporter. He will not have written the text that appeared on the website, it will have been summarised from his report by someone else.

I agree with you with the hound on the fence, the blood pattern was all wrong and my own dog, who is and was at the time a lot heavier than a hound, was thrown over a pike fence like that by a very wiry friend of mine (Don't. Ask)


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## Fantastic_Mr_Fox (23 March 2010)

I have read many stories of hounds attacking and killing family pets from various sources!  How you can say that a hound knows the difference between a fox and a domestic dog is pretty lame really! It makes me laugh how when something like this happens you blame everyone else but yourselves!

Hunts should controll their hounds the same as any other dog owner. At the end of the day the dogs are your responsibilty.  

Finally, I find it disappointing that the master of the hunt showed nothing but arrogance towards the poor lads whos dog had just been ripped apart, too busy racing for his next kill no doubt!


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## combat_claire (23 March 2010)

Fantastic_Mr_Fox said:



			I have read many stories of hounds attacking and killing family pets from various sources!  How you can say that a hound knows the difference between a fox and a domestic dog is pretty lame really! It makes me laugh how when something like this happens you blame everyone else but yourselves!

Hunts should controll their hounds the same as any other dog owner. At the end of the day the dogs are your responsibilty.
		
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I agree that there have been incidents of hounds killing domestic pets in the past, it is regrettable. However your argument rather falls down because the percentage of incidents related to actual days hunting. 

Figures from the RealCA website indicate that between 1977 and 2007 there were 20 incidents in UK excluding Ireland. Given that there are around 300 hunts, going out on average twice a week between September and March. This makes 504,000 hunting days over that 30 year period. 20 incidents equates to 0.6 incidents a year or 0.00004% of hunting days ending in such an incident. Your inference that this happens on a regular basis is completely spurious. 

I would also like to take issue with your paragraph relating to hounds being under control. From April until September I act as second whipper-in to a pack of mink hounds. We regularly attend shows bringing around 6 and a half couple (13 hounds) with us. Invariably our hounds with no couples or leads are better behaved and under total control as we cross the show ground than the domestic pets dragging their owners about and needing 'halties' to gain some semblance of control.


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## Fantastic_Mr_Fox (24 March 2010)

RealCA, as in Real Countryside Alliance?


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## MontyandZoom (24 March 2010)

If the story is true, which unfortunately it seems to be, it is terribly sad for the family. However, I don't really see the point in posting it on a pro-hunt forum?? Perhaps you would be better writing to an MP etc with your concerns or doing something pro-active. 

All this winding up of pro-hunt people does nothing for your cause, it just annoys people (and I have no opinion either way on the whole hunting debate!).

FWIW - I live in London and have personally seen 2 cats and 1 small dog killed by a pet dog so I doubt that the incidence is higher with hounds.....in fact I would think it would be considerably lower.

If your main issue is with the fact that the hunt is not liable for the actions of the hounds, this is not the place to try and get something done about it. You can also not really blame people for being suspicious of your posts - again, you cannot constantly make an effort to get people's backs up and then expect them to believe a story you post.


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## combat_claire (25 March 2010)

Fantastic_Mr_Fox said:



			RealCA, as in Real Countryside Alliance?
		
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What sort of self-respecting anti hasn't heard of that website...since the figures were taken from such a prominent anti-hunting campaign site then you have to admit that my basis was true and that therefore the rest of my maths was correct as well. 

I await your comment with interest.


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## Serenity087 (25 March 2010)

Am I the only one here astounded at the stupidity of claiming a pack of dogs, kept as a pack, who regularly meet other dogs from other packs, or terriers, or pet dogs, or sheep dogs (or in our case, a gun dog), would kill and eat a dog?

Also, why were two young boys left alone and in charge of a dog?  If anyone needs charging for anything, its their irresponsible parents - what if the dog had got away and been run over, they'd not have the hunt to blame then.

Seriously.  It doesn't add up.  And the only person I can see believing it is my gundog, who squared up to fight a hound not realising it had friends.  When he spotted the other 29 hounds, he crapped himself, convinced his end was up, and hid until they'd gone...


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## Fantastic_Mr_Fox (26 March 2010)

"Am I the only one here astounded at the stupidity of claiming a pack of dogs, kept as a pack, who regularly meet other dogs from other packs, or terriers, or pet dogs, or sheep dogs (or in our case, a gun dog), would kill and eat a dog?"

Yes I think you are. Hunting hounds are trained to kill foxes! Evidently they also kill peoples pets. As I have said before this is well documented! Are you honestly trying to tell me that a hound can distinguish between a fox, domestic dog and cat? 


"Also, why were two young boys left alone and in charge of a dog? If anyone needs charging for anything, its their irresponsible parents - what if the dog had got away and been run over, they'd not have the hunt to blame then."

LOL!! There is nothing wrong allowing two young boys taking their dogs for a walk! Did your parents not let you take your dogs for a walk when you were young? Maybe if the boys parents knew that the poor pet was going to be savaged and ripped to bits by out of control hounds owned by arrogant, selfish idiots and the remains chucked in a bush then they may have thought twice!! IF the dog had got away and got killed by a car, then thats just terrible bad luck! It amazes me at that you have the cheek to blame the parents here!!!!!


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## combat_claire (26 March 2010)

Ignoring my posts and moving onto the ones you find it easier to respond to again. .


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## Fantastic_Mr_Fox (26 March 2010)

combat_claire said:



			What sort of self-respecting anti hasn't heard of that website...since the figures were taken from such a prominent anti-hunting campaign site then you have to admit that my basis was true and that therefore the rest of my maths was correct as well. 

I await your comment with interest.
		
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I do apologise Claire, got myself confused there. Its a good website though, dont you agree? A real eye opener!

For a moment there I thought you were talking about the RealCA themselves! You know, the ones who went round the Country sticking those silly green union flags on traffic signs and setting fire to NAAONB's.


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## combat_claire (26 March 2010)

Fantastic_Mr_Fox said:



			I do apologise Claire, got myself confused there. Its a good website though, dont you agree? A real eye opener!

For a moment there I thought you were talking about the RealCA themselves! You know, the ones who went round the Country sticking those silly green union flags on traffic signs and setting fire to NAAONB's.
		
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Hunting people tend to have better things to do with their time than set up websites chronicling the harassment they have put up with. It does happen though as you will see from the links I have left for you on the other thread.

I was actually waiting for your response to my maths calcs which show that an infinitesimal  amount of hunting days end in disaster for a pet.


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## Xlthlx (26 March 2010)

Hunting hounds kill very very few pets and if they do it will be by accident and not with the intention of the huntsmen.

Compare hunting with something most of us do - driving cars and I think you will find cars kill far far more pets and cause far more suffering to animals domestic and wild than hunting ever do.

According to the highways agency 74,000 deer were hit last year - that's one in 20.

I have no idea how many pet dogs are killed but it must be many thousands.

Why isn;t anybody making a fuss about that?


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## Fantastic_Mr_Fox (26 March 2010)

"Hunting people tend to have better things to do with their time than set up websites chronicling the harassment they have put up with."

Im really looking forward to viewing them Claire. I have asked numerous times for people to put up links to back up their claims of violence and not one has obliged until now! Oh, and out of interest what are you busier doing than setting up websites?


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## Fantastic_Mr_Fox (26 March 2010)

Xlthlx said:



			Hunting hounds kill very very few pets and if they do it will be by accident and not with the intention of the huntsmen.

Compare hunting with something most of us do - driving cars and I think you will find cars kill far far more pets and cause far more suffering to animals domestic and wild than hunting ever do.

According to the highways agency 74,000 deer were hit last year - that's one in 20.

I have no idea how many pet dogs are killed but it must be many thousands.

Why isn;t anybody making a fuss about that?
		
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Because cars are a vital part of modern living and im sure 99% of deaths caused by cars are real unavoidable accidents!! Face it, your hounds are your responsibility! If you cant control them then you really shouldnt be letting them run loose around the Countryside! It was only a couple of weeks ago several hounds strayed onto a motorway and were run over! This could easily have been a lot lot worse and could have caused a pile up!


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## combat_claire (26 March 2010)

Fantastic_Mr_Fox said:



			"Hunting people tend to have better things to do with their time than set up websites chronicling the harassment they have put up with."

Im really looking forward to viewing them Claire. I have asked numerous times for people to put up links to back up their claims of violence and not one has obliged until now! Oh, and out of interest what are you busier doing than setting up websites?
		
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Ooh lots of things! Tonight I have our end of season party, then this weekend I'm going to the Team Chase. I expect cricket training will be starting soon, then there are days of legal hunting with the minkhounds to look forward to, an election to campaign and of course watching Masterchef!!


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## Xlthlx (26 March 2010)

Fantastic_Mr_Fox said:



			Because cars are a vital part of modern living and im sure 99% of deaths caused by cars are real unavoidable accidents!! Face it, your hounds are your responsibility! If you cant control them then you really shouldnt be letting them run loose around the Countryside! It was only a couple of weeks ago several hounds strayed onto a motorway and were run over! This could easily have been a lot lot worse and could have caused a pile up!
		
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I can control my dogs but I choose not to because I like to see them having a good time.  Also they help me manage the wildlife in my woodlands in a welfare friendly manner.


"im sure 99% of deaths caused by cars are real unavoidable accidents!!"

Most RTAs are avoidable even by the person who's fault they aren't.

Yes it could have caused a pile up as could 74,000 deer hit by cars every year as well as about a million other animals.


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## Xlthlx (26 March 2010)

What I don't get is why when faced with hundreds of thousands of animals being killed on the roads coupled with thousands of people you choose to focus on this event.

If people reduced their speed and drove more carefully we could save countless lives and much suffering.

Some people drive on country roads without taking into account the fact their might be horses, riders cyclists etc round the next bend.


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## MissJael (27 March 2010)

http://www.newryreporter.com/news/viewdetails.asp?ID=1672

Perhaps this webpage will be of interest regarding this debate


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