# Foxes are getting much braver!



## cazza (1 December 2006)

I know people are probably going to berate me for this post. But I have noticed that since the hunt ban we have far more braver foxes on the farm.  Only last weekend we had 2 beautiful foxes (and yes they were stunning animals) chasing my foals round the field, nipping at their heels, with the mares in hot persuit.  I have never seen this behaviour before, it was almost like they were hunting as a wild pack of dogs would do.  So I will have to leave it to the gamekeeper to come down and shoot them.  It seems as shame but we can't have this happening on a stud.  And next problem is we can't have the gamekeeping shooting in the field with the horses.  So stuck in a catch 22.  I know that with traditional hunting it would probably not be these foxes that would be caught as they are exceptionally fine and well animals, but then they would probably not be chasing the horses if the infirm or ill foxes were culled.  Sorry those who are anti's but I am a pro, and you can slate me all you will, but having seen a fox die of mange over a week resulting in a long and painful death to be honest I would rather not wish that on any of natures creatures.


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## severnmiles (1 December 2006)

Seeing as you need them gotten rid of but cannot allow shooting because of the horses...well that leaves snaring...what do you think antis?


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## Fairynuff (1 December 2006)

I dont understand what the culling of old or sick foxes has to do with healthy young foxes chasing foals?? Have I missed something? I doubt very much if any fox would take a foal at this time of year seeing as they will be on their way to becoming yearlings-or do you have winter foaling? To be honest, I cant see any fox taking a foal. Why not just leave them alone and enjoy seeing them around. Mairi.


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## Clodagh (1 December 2006)

I'm amazed at them chasing a foal - would love to see photos!


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## Jemayni (1 December 2006)

Well I had an interesting expreience with a brave fox the other week. I was out bloodhounding, and I was up at the front; out on my own a little, I looked to the far edge of the field and there was a fox - just sitting there watching us. Obv it remained sitting their as blood hounds didn't even notice! But it was still very funny.  Also I found it rather ironic that some *cough* person came driving past 2mins later, beeping horn on his car scaring the life out of all the horses, and shouting what sort of effin ban do you call this?


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## eohippus (2 December 2006)

'but then they would probably not be chasing the horses if the infirm or ill foxes were culled'  ??????? what?????

A fox wandered into our paddock the other day,  right into the mouths of my two dogs.  took me 20 mins to part them and keep the dogs away long enough for the fox to run off.  Was a bit wet and ruffled but none the worst for it.   Nice looking animal as well.  

regards
Dawn


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## Mid (2 December 2006)

We have city foxes, which, like the pigeons, are mange ridden and diseased.


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## Jerome (2 December 2006)

I think it's quite justified to shoot foxes for chasing horses. Pesky Charlie could quite easily kill one of them!!!!!


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## Fairynuff (2 December 2006)

LMAO! Never heard such utter tosh in my life. I would shoot stray dogs instead-they do the damage, not a bloody fox or two. Mairi.


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## Vicki1986 (4 December 2006)

I cant see any fox taking a foal. Why not just leave them alone and enjoy seeing them around. Mairi.
		
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anything chasing a horse or foal is dangerous. im sure the foal, sepearated from its mother and panicking, wouldnt know the fox may not technically kill it.

what happened in the end did the fox get bored and run off or did the mares frighten it away?


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## cazza (4 December 2006)

Mothers actually chased the foxes out of the field, but with the really wet weather and very slippery ground, foals were not overly balanced on their legs and mainly worried about them doing themselves an injury.  

Mari, I was not implying that the foxes were about to eat the foals, only that their chasing them were causing them to run in blind panic, which I presume you would be aware can cause horses to run straight through fencing.


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## cazza (4 December 2006)

Mothers actually chased the foxes out of the field, but with the really wet weather and very slippery ground, foals were not overly balanced on their legs and mainly worried about them doing themselves an injury.  

Mairi, I was not implying that the foxes were about to eat the foals, only that their chasing them were causing them to run in blind panic, which I presume you would be aware can cause horses to run straight through fencing. I would be a very irreponsible owner to stand by and watch two foxes chase a foal into hurting itself.  So to be honest no I don't enjoy seeing them around and am currently arranging for the game keeper to get rid of them.


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## cazza (4 December 2006)

was implying that if the population of foxes in the area was kept lower they would then have more acreage per head to roam, so less likely to see 2 foxes together in the same field nearly every day.


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## Vicki1986 (4 December 2006)

must admit i have never seen so many foxes as i have done this year. they wander round our yard and frighten the horses when schooling. they also get in the barns and sh1t all over the hay and straw. charming creatures!


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## endymion (4 December 2006)

You must have very spookish horses!

And dont horses [****] all over the place as well??


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## Vicki1986 (4 December 2006)

have you ever smelt fox poo ?! its rank!

and i would say there arent many foals in the world that wouldnt be terrified being chased by a fox !!


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## wombat (4 December 2006)

ummmm horse poo.. they don't seem to s*** on things that  we have to eat  where as when the foxes s*** on our hay.. our horses have to eat that stuff!
and you must remeber horses are prey animals or did you forget that?? so yeah if the foxes are in the school at night.. and if the horses catch sight of them ..yes it will spook them..


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## endymion (4 December 2006)

Not any worse than dog or cat [****]. Don't you have dogs or cats on the yard? 

I think the incident described is very rare. I've never seen a grown horse bothered by foxes and most of the foals at ours have no fear of the mental dogs we have running around so it's difficult to imagine them scared by a fox.


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## Vicki1986 (5 December 2006)

Do you let you the mental dogs chase your foals then ?! as no i doubt they would be scared unless they were chasing and "nipping at their heels"

And maybe its just southern foxes then but yes we have dogs and cats on the yard and i can tell the difference very easily !! And no the dogs and cats dont poo on the hay that my horse has to eat!


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## Jerome (5 December 2006)

This hatred of foxes would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic.


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## Vicki1986 (5 December 2006)

I wouldnt say i "hate" foxes. just find some of their habits annoying. as im sure they do vice versa!


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## endymion (5 December 2006)

What exactly does removing fox [****] from hay entail? Getting rid of a handful of hay, hardly decimating the stocks is it? It's the bloody countryside, there are lots of animals and they tend to [****] a lot in case you never noticed. lol!

J's right, your hatred of foxes is pathetic and irrational. I mean of all the naff excuses I've heard for their persecution (and believe me I have heard lots) this has got to be the worst.  

I doubt very much whether there is a strain of horse-hunting foxes down south, more than likely it was a one off, a strange occurance as happens in nature from time to time. 

Also how exactly do u plan to track down and kill the exact same foxes?


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## Vicki1986 (5 December 2006)

Read my replies properly. Not once have i said i HATE foxes. quite the contrary. i find them pooing on my hay irratating (sp) have i said it makes me want to kill them ??

I presume your aggressive defence is because you presume i am Pro hunting and go around killing foxes every weekend. If so, you are also wrong !


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## Eagle_day (5 December 2006)

What exactly does removing fox [****] from hay entail? Getting rid of a handful of hay, hardly decimating the stocks is it?
		
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It taints the whole bale and horses won't touch it, Countryboy.


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## wombat (5 December 2006)

and i woundn't like to give my horse  some hay that has had fox poo on it.. not after wombat got ill after  eatting hay that did have poo on it which got cleared away... learnt from that mistake! and dont say she wasn't ill coz she was..  and would you really wanna feed your horse  hay that has poo on it?


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## Fairynuff (5 December 2006)

Wow, first time I find myself agreeing with you! M.


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## cazza (5 December 2006)

Dear Endymion, don't have any cat's on the yard and do have dog's but they are kept well away from the young horses.  Also don't really approve of having dogs running loose on the yard.  Yes I agree it is very strange that the foxes have taken to chasing the foals, but then when doesn't nature throw up a new one on us.  And yes usually horses wouldn't be afraid of foxes but try telling my 3 month old foals that.  I think I am rather lucky in the fact that I am not on a livery yard and we are a private yard and therefore do not have to deal with external people.  I appreciate people's comments, we don't all have the same ideal's and that is what makes people individuals and unique.  Wouldn't we be a boaring bunch if we all thought and acted the same all the time.


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## Boudicea (5 December 2006)

Yes they are definetely getting braver and who can blame them?

One came up to me the other night (bit of a shady character really) and told me about this new group that is being formed called "Foxes for Justice". Apparently the Countryside Alliance buildings are the first to be scaled in protest.


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## wombat (5 December 2006)

lol gd one boudicea


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## endymion (6 December 2006)

I assumed you were in support of the poster who is calling in the gamekeeper. which I think is a rather strong over-reaction to what is probably a freak occurance. 

I didnt assume you were pro-hunt, but please accept my apologies anyway. 

See everyone, I can admit it when I'm wrong, hehe  :grin:


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## endymion (6 December 2006)

It taints a whole bale of hay?

A whole bale? 

I's sorry but I don't believe that.


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## endymion (6 December 2006)

Yes it would. 

I think having the foxes shot is too extreme. 

My yard is a bit wild and there are about 10-15 dogs always running around, most of which belong to the liveries. I'm not a massive fan of it mainly because my terrier is a wimp and gets bullied by them all. We never have many foals, only ones that appear by accident, its a riding school and the horses/ponies tend to come in the back door sometimes. Ive lost count of the mares that have come in only to drop one a couple of mths later (I'm sure they must buy the bloody things over the internet and not view them first, haha). They don't seem to be worried by any of the dogs tho and our foxes must be more timid or scared off by all the mutts around.


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## moocow (6 December 2006)

haven't had the experience of fox poo on a bale of hay but have had the experience of my terrier rolling in it and believe me it is the smelliest substance known to man and beast! Unbelieveable. Could well believe  horses wouldn't touch a bale after it has been fox deficated on!


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## endymion (6 December 2006)

But you could just remove a strip. Bales are big things!


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## Vicki1986 (6 December 2006)

Moocow your reply made me chuckle ! honestly what a conversation to be having!

endymion apology accepted. i havent decided yet what part of the spectrum i am in, i am pro hunt but not to the extreme. i have many different views on the subject but sway more towards pro. but as libra i often sit on the fence weighing things

cazza couldnt agree more with your last comment


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## cazza (6 December 2006)

yes I presume it is probably because we don't have dogs around the yard that is the reason we have the problem.  And I must admit I am very lucky with the situation we have with our yard.  But then we are predominantly a stud so only have mares over to be served by the stallion and then they go again.  With the foxes it probably is a bit on the extreme side to have them shot, but since they have been seen in the paddock every day for the last two weeks and the foals arn't getting any calmer, then we are going to have to take some drastic action.  Have had to bring one mare and foal in this morning as the foal has sliced itself open on the fence this morning (slippery ground so the abs isn't working!) and we only have post rail.


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## Vicki1986 (6 December 2006)

oh dear poor foal!


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## Ereiam_jh (6 December 2006)

I'd just get someone to chase them off with a few dogs.  Chasing them off seems better than shooting them.  Maybe you could encourage someone to walk their dogs round and about every so often.


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## Jerome (7 December 2006)

Get a dog then and stop moaning.


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## cazza (7 December 2006)

Gosh you got out of bed the wrong side.  Don't believe I was moaning, and if you had actually bothered to read any of my posts you would see that we don't allow dogs in the fields with the mares and foals.  As well known livestock is dead stock till the money is in the bank and as we are a breeding stud it's these horses that buy the bread and butter to keep the yard afloat.  Unfortunately there are obvioulsy people on this forum that do not understand the way the countryside works to make a living.  I am more than happy to listen to anyone's point of view and not shoot them down for it, but you are obviously blinkered in your own little world.


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## Vicki1986 (7 December 2006)

That was constructive !!


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## endymion (7 December 2006)

We have three yard dogs (literally, no-one knows where they came from and no-one knows who owns them, so they belong to everyone). One is a border collie and the other two are greyhounds, a mother and son we think. The collie is an excellent guard dog, a bit too good sometimes. The mother greyhound is very old and can't run and the other one is young but only has three legs (due to a break-in at the yard. We think he must of went for the intruder/s. The vet said that they had taken his front two paws and tried to pull them apart. Apparently this crushes the heart. Luckily it didnt but he did lose a leg.). Anyway, point is that none of these dogs can catch a fox but they are a very good deterrent and are good with horses if trained. The only dogs we have problems with are the private livery ones, mainly the Jack Russells, too much attitude for something so small, walk round like they own the bloody place, haha


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## cazza (7 December 2006)

Endymion, you are great  . .. . See everyone we don't have to agree on the hunting topic but we can communicate and sympathise with the different situations we encounter.  Really sorry to hear about your young greyhounds horrific injury that must have been heartbreaking to find him in such a state.  Thank goodness he's at a good home.


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## endymion (7 December 2006)

Totally agree  

The break-in was a couple of years ago now, when he was about a year-ish (we dont really know his age). He gets around just as well as before, thank God for his slight build. People do tend to do a double take when you hack out with him and they see this huge three legged hound belt past at full speed, hehe!


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## cazza (7 December 2006)

oh I'm so glad he has recovered well, and on 3 legs I bet he can still shift at quite a speed.


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## Clodagh (7 December 2006)

I should think 2 greyhounds and a collie should be well capable of taking a fox, even if they do have an odd number of legs!!

I have heard of people trying to do that (the heart crushing thing) apparently it doesn't work? Would like to know how they found out that it doesn't! Theres some sick people out there


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## Jerome (7 December 2006)

OK OK, I'm sorry!!!


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## endymion (7 December 2006)

The mother (Jess) is really really old. She must of been black once but is now all grey. The 3 legged (Jasper) can still shift very fast but to best of knowledge has never caught anything. Could he still seize it with only one front paw?

The collie (Eastwood) is more territorial than anything. He prefers to stand at the gates an intimidate everyone rather than chase anything. He never goes out with the riders, prefers to skulk around the yard looking mean , hence the name (after Clint).   :grin:


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## cazza (8 December 2006)

apology accepted


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## cazza (8 December 2006)

they sound a lovely bunch, although your discription of Eastwood brought a smile to my face this morning


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