# Bitch spaying - keyhole or normal?



## Cedars (10 July 2009)

Hi guys!

Our little muttley has now turned 5 months and we are looking to get her spayed so we popped into the vet today. They've given us two options: have her ovaries ONLY removed through keyhole, or have everything removed and have her done normally (big scar etc). There is a price difference, but if money was no problem which one would you go for? and Pros and cons please! She is a very hyper labrador.

Thanks guys, Hannah xxxxx


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## Lucy_Nottingham (10 July 2009)

NO NORMAL!
the bigger the incision the better hte surgery!!!! (just had lectures on this!!) 

Key hole is literally a surgery the size of a key hole! so smaller incision, fewer stitches....... but can u imagine how well the vet can visualise all the structures in there?! if one thing snaps without a clamp on in there bleeding out can occur!!!!

Normal incision ok bigger gap, more stitches, but vet can see what they are doing and means there is less chance of mistakes!! 

Chance of infection really isnt that different (apparently) the scar from a normal surgery isnt always that big as long as there are no post op infections etc! its just slightly bigger than key hole! plus key hole will prob need 2 individual incisions over each ovary!

Id always go for the bigger incision personally! and will do when I graduate as well!


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## Cedars (10 July 2009)

They put a camera in there so they can see inside though? Yes she does need two holes but they said they'd be tiny.

Do you know if there would be any risk to leaving her uterus in? My worry is that shes a labrador and once the anesthetic has worn off, we wont be able to keep her quiet and she'll rip open her big scar. 

Thanks so much for advice, so your lecturers kind of poo-pooed keyhole then? xxx


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## Lucy_Nottingham (10 July 2009)

Uterus in means there is a risk later in life of a pyometra (infection of the uterus) which can be life threatening and REALLY unpleasant! 

The camera they put in is like an endoscope and requires alot of training (which I am sure they have had as otherwise I doubt they would offer it!) but id rather see the big picture and know whats there than rely on the 1cm diameter camera image you get through the endoscope

I have a border collie male who was castrated, and got a post op infection so had more problems for a further 2 weeks after the op so spent a further 2 weeks on the lead!
believe me they hate having hte cone on their head that much, I doubt she will want to do much, either that or she will cathc it on something which will slow her down! walks must be on a lead, so that wont be a problem! She wont feel overly runny at first anyway! 
	
	
		
		
	


	





Ye the lectures were rather antikey hole unless absolutaly necessary in an instance where the smaller the incision the better chance of recovery etc. And this was given by a surgeon called Dick White who is a specialist referall surgeon for Uk and US! so kind of knows his stuff! but obviously its what you prefer! 

If its just for cosmetic reasons you would rather have key hole, id still go for normal as the scar is not that big or gastly!


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## hellspells (10 July 2009)

I agree with Lucy.  I personaly would go for the big incision.  I would want the uterus removed also.  I have seen far too many bitches with pyo's that have be unnessecary (sp).  Its a horrible infection that I have seen kill dogs.

In the long term I think it would be better for the animals, although in the short term in will be slightly more uncomfortable though you will be given Anti inflams to take home.

They do get use to having buster collars on - but make sure if you have any low shelves take things off and don't walk round with bare legs!!


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## Lucy_Nottingham (10 July 2009)

also raising food and water bowls helps them access it with the collar on!


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## Cedars (10 July 2009)

Its not for cosmetic reasons at all, shes our baby and I'd rather she was healthy with a hefty scar than dead but with a small one!!! And they're never that big anyway, even the normal way.

Oh I dont know, the vet was so pro keyhole. Hmmmmmmmm.

P.s. cant wait to see her with the collar on!!

Hannah xxxx


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## Lucy_Nottingham (10 July 2009)

Sorry that wasnt meant to sound nasty as I know alot of people who go for keyhole FOR cosmetic reasons! 

Im happy u wud rather a normal scar and a healthy dog!

Vets are often pro keyhole as its cheaper for them!!! and also requires fewer incisions etc so less stitching etc. And (without tryingto make it sound slightly trivial) it allows them to play with toys that without key hole surgery they probably never would! 

Collars are very amusing! much to the dogs dismay! but thye get over it!


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## FinnishLapphund (10 July 2009)

Personally I've had three bitches spayed but they've only been spayed as old ladies when signs have showed that a pyometra might turn up with the next season, so they had everything removed.

Considering that they had a hole opened up on their tummy about the same length as my hand (from the fingertips and down to where the arm begins), they recover incredibly fast, one didn't believe she'd had any operation by the evening, another one didn't believe she'd had any operation by the next morning and one enjoyed being pampered for two, three days. 
Between 6 months and a year after the operation, you couldn't really detect any scar anymore. 


However if I would spay a young dog, I would probably have chosen to not remove everything. The female "things" does send certain signals to the dogs body through their life and if you don't remove everything some of those functions might remain. 
Also dogs that have everything removed can be treated differently by other dogs, when they are old ladies like mine (between about 9 to 11,5 years old) they can have an old age authority that makes it irrelevant but for a young dog, that is another reason for me to not remove everything.


I bookmarked a site that CALA mentioned in some other thread about spaying, don't know if it can be of interest but just in case http://www.belleviewanimalclinic.com/early_spaying_or_neutering .


Good luck.


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## MurphysMinder (10 July 2009)

The bitches I have had spayed I have done purely to remove the risk of pyometra so have gone for a normal incision.  However the scar has never been huge, maybe 5/6" long (on GSDs).  They have always recovered really quickly, buncing round within 24 hours and the scars soon disappear.


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## FestiveSpirit (10 July 2009)

I would go for a full spay with a small incision  
	
	
		
		
	


	




   One of my mum's vets is so neat you would not believe it, so would go for a vet with those skills.

As mine are rescues they are all spayed before I get them, and I cannot believe the size of some of their scars


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## Cedars (10 July 2009)

Sooooooooo......basically everyone would choose to do it normal? I'm gonna try and set up a poll lol xxxx


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## Cedars (10 July 2009)

Trying to make a poll...


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## FinnishLapphund (10 July 2009)

Sorry but I'm going to be difficult and answer Have it done normally but *not* removing everything.


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## Cedars (10 July 2009)

can you just ask them to do that? he didnt offer that as an option...


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## FinnishLapphund (11 July 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
They've given us two options: have her ovaries ONLY removed through keyhole, or have everything removed and have her done normally (big scar etc).

[/ QUOTE ]
I did interpreted that as that they would only remove her ovaries if you chose the keyhole operation but everything if you chose the big operation. That was why I was sorry for being difficult, when I added an alternative that you hadn't listed in your poll.

But personally I have always just assumed that veterinarians removed what you asked them to remove. If I'm paying for the job, I think I should have some (not all, after all they are the professionals and I'm not but still, some) saying in what is being done. So I feel that I would be able to ask my vet if it was possible to only remove the ovaries but through the big operation, because I want to be sure they can see what they're doing inside my dog. If my vet then tells me my idea isn't any good, I follow their advice.
On other hand my vets are quite used to me, even when I know it probably isn't anything to worry about, I still often want them checked up, just in case. 

There's pros and cons for all your options and I'm sorry for confusing you with adding an extra option but in case the future includes any new vet visits, I only want to say that if the vet is good with both animals and people, you can offer your own input, ask questions about why they can't do like this or why they need to do like that. 
I have my own theory about that most vets, meets owners with whom it is simply best, easiest to offer only two options to choose between.


Again, good luck and sorry for confusing you.


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## CAYLA (11 July 2009)

Remove the lot


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