# Pics of the stallion Puissance.



## Alec Swan (16 December 2009)

For those of you who were interested in what the horse looks like,  this is him.  I'm not certain of this,  but so I understand,  there are no stallions by him.  I'm not surprised.  I have a colt foal,  and he would be everything which I could ask for,  but for the fact that he is VERY sharp.  He is needlessly aggressive,  and I'm not not for being that tolerant!!  Alec.


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## BallyshanHorses (16 December 2009)

I cant think of any stallions by Puissance to be honest.If there are they are not well known.He was sharp himself as far as I am aware so maybe he passes this on to his colts.


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## PapaFrita (17 December 2009)

I used to have a gelding by Puissance. He was a complete dope on a rope. Very, very very quiet and sweet. I forget the rest of his pedigree but he didn't look anything like his dad (assuming same Puissance, of course 
	
	
		
		
	


	




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## Simsar (17 December 2009)

Please can I just say temperament has to be 50/50, as I believe mares are as much to blame.


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## Alec Swan (17 December 2009)

Simsar,

you are,  of course right,  which quite neatly leads us on to the question of temperament.  There are many horses which can be simplicity itself,  whilst they're being ridden,  and difficult whilst you're on the ground,  and obviously vice versa. 

With the possible exception of the occasional TB,  it would be very rare,  I would think,  for a stallion to be kept entire which was dangerous.  There are,  to the best of my knowledge,  no stallion sons of,  the now dead,  Catherstone Dazzler,  for the very good reason that they proved to be too difficult.  Bearing in mind that he was a stallion,  it is my understanding that he displayed a sound and balanced temperament,  whilst being handled.

Is it likely that such a straight forward horse could still have the ability to pass on those traits which we don't want?

Mares?  Your'e right,  but I would never breed from a mare which was anything other than honest.  

It has generally been my experience,  that correcting a playful colt,  is a relatively simple matter,  and they generally accept that correction with good grace.  This foal,  is something else!  Turning it into a fight,  would be out of the question.  It's time,  I think,  for plan B.  It's time to convert him into a gelding.  I would have preferred to leave him until the Spring,  but I don't think that I can survive that long!!

Alec.


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## S_N (17 December 2009)

Are we talking TB or WB Puissance here?  I've not seen either in the flesh and now little about a WB Puissance, but I know that the TB one had a tricky temperament....


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## seabiscuit (17 December 2009)

He's built like a brick privvy!!

Interesting that a stallion out of work needs front shoes on, even tho they look strong enough. Someone on here has had massive problems with their Puissance horse's feet- is this a common prob in Puissances?


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## cruiseline (17 December 2009)

I also think that many temperamental horses (not only stallions) are man made, nature vs nurture. They learn very quickly, if incorrectly or over handled and given too many grey areas, to walk all over their handlers.

When I was younger (much younger), my vet came over to vaccinate one of our foals. When he arrived he was white, I asked him what was wrong. He told me he had just been down the road to vaccinate another foal. When he approached it, it reared up and put its front legs on his shoulders. The young girl, who owned and bred it, laughed and said isn't he clever, I taught him to do that. My vet was gob smacked. He said do you realise that this foal will end up over 1/2 a ton and if allowed to carry on in this way, it WILL kill some one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There is an article in this months Horse Breeders Magazine about handling stallions.

http://www.horsebreedersmagazine.com/#/day-in-the-life-of-a-stallion/4537606390


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## Alec Swan (17 December 2009)

O-B,

I must admit that I wondered about the front shoes.  I bought the mare,  from Ireland,  and in foal.

Alec.


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## PapaFrita (17 December 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
It has generally been my experience,  that correcting a playful colt,  is a relatively simple matter,  and they generally accept that correction with good grace.  This foal,  is something else!  Turning it into a fight,  would be out of the question.  It's time,  I think,  for plan B.  It's time to convert him into a gelding.  I would have preferred to leave him until the Spring,  but I don't think that I can survive that long!!

Alec. 

[/ QUOTE ]
Do you mind me asking if he's been weaned (have missed previous posts) and if he has been in a herd with other foals? My current foal was only with his mother until he was weaned and he was VERY obstreperous. Once away from mum and in with another foal (he's now out with lots of younguns) he turned into a total angel.


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## no_no_nanette (17 December 2009)

Stallion temperament is so difficult to judge accurately, and offspring are often the very best guide - even there, obviously training and early life experience can have a very significant affect.

We recently visited a farm where one of the great eventing sires was standing, and it was an utterly grim experience, which I would never want to repeat.  All I can say is that if that stallion was savage, it was almost certainly down to the way that it was being "handled" and kept.  There was no way that you could have judged his temperament on the basis of what we saw.  The article that cruiseline mentions in Horse Breeders magazine makes this point very strongly!


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## magic104 (17 December 2009)

I think the post relates to the ISH Puissance http://www.irishsporthorse.com/_fileuplo...58545d3f9d0.pdf


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## Alec Swan (17 December 2009)

PapaFrita,

Yes,  he's weaned,  and standing in,  with a filly foal in the next box.  She's also being tiresome!  They can see each other through a grill,  which I'm going to fill in,  as I suspect that they're just winding each other up.  The current position is that we may just as well have two foals in the same box. 

He has been difficult since coming back from stud,  and I've rather left him too it.  Not the wisest move,  I now realise.  I would also point out that the bulk of his aggression is fear.  Despite my calm and subdued approach,  even when ignoring him,  he goes round the box,  and then shows me his heals,  and he means it!  I keep telling myself that he can't keep it up for ever,  but at the moment he seems to be fairly determined.  

Bad behaviour needs immediate correction,  in my view,  but fear?  that's a different thing altogether.  I wont allow him to have an area (his box) where I can't go,  but it's getting bloody dangerous! 

The foals were kept separate,  because we had a major drought through the summer,  and the ground was like iron,  and it went on for months.  With what would have been the ensuing foal games,  we were worried about young,  soft and growing joints,  and I think that this was a valid concern.  

Regarding a previous posting,  where a foal jumped onto a vets back,  it really beggars belief that some people can be quite so stupid,  doesn't it?  Were it not such a potentially dangerous thing to do,  then the level of stupidity would almost be funny.  

This has all rather wandered away from the stallion.  Puissance,  is the ISH,  not the TB.  

Alec.


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## Alec Swan (17 December 2009)

RBM,  

you are entirely correct.

Alec.


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## levantosh (17 December 2009)

Are there any stallion sons of Dutch Gold??


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## S_N (17 December 2009)

I thought it wasn't the TB.  Interesting (oddly) that both horses of the same name have sharp temperaments, that poss passes onto their stock.   Though I do agree that temps can be made to a certain extent.


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## lisaward (22 December 2009)

just noticed this new stallion has puissance in his pedigree 
but looks like his temperment is good


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## Faberge (23 December 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
Are there any stallion sons of Dutch Gold?? 

[/ QUOTE ]

I doubt it if any of the Dutch Gold offspring I've come across are anything to go by!


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## Eothain (9 January 2010)

Puissance is the single most under rated stallion in Ireland. He's produced top level eventers and showjumpers and I'm talking Spruce Meadows level here!
I ride a mare by him, Eskerhills Lexis. Her owner wants to put her in foal as her full brother Dromgurrihy Blue won the one star event in Tattersalls this year and at the end of the 2009 season Lexis had up 96 points, not bad considering she was injured for 4 months of the year! She's going in foal this year and I will continue to compete her in foal and she'll do the 7 year old classes with her. She missed loads of 6 year old classes so this year we want to make amends!!!
As for colts by him, one day I will stand a stallion son of his. Definate goal of mine


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## RebeccaAnne (19 January 2010)

Says it all really


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## ihatework (19 January 2010)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Are there any stallion sons of Dutch Gold?? 

[/ QUOTE ]

I doubt it if any of the Dutch Gold offspring I've come across are anything to go by! 

[/ QUOTE ]

Catherston Gold Storm is definitely by DG. Don't know any others off the top of my head.

I always stand up for DG !!!  I have an adorable gelding by him, superb temprement, ridden by me - idiot amatuer.


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## XxsammyxX (3 September 2010)

BallyshanHorses said:



			I cant think of any stallions by Puissance to be honest.If there are they are not well known.He was sharp himself as far as I am aware so maybe he passes this on to his colts.
		
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I own a gelding by puissance who was only gelded 5 mounths ago.


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## magic104 (3 September 2010)

I think it is too easy to blame the stallion for temperment.  If a horse is pre-disposed to being sharp then he can be made or broke by the handling he receives.  The only way to judge if a stallion passes on a poor temperment would be to know what the mares & any other siblings were like, & even then it could be debatable.  A stallion has 100 foals, 30 are thought to be difficult, he is to blame.  That would only be the case if those 30 dams had never had an offspring that showed the same traits sired by another stallion.  Yet to be fair to the stallion she would need to have had at least 2 by him, just because siblings can be so different.  These 30 dams would also have to have shown that they themselves had an easy going nature.  

Look at human siblings & how different in temperments they can be.   Parents will swear blind they treat them all the same, except that 2nd & 3rd offspring generally have a more relaxed time of it.

I can not be the only one who has come across a horse with a difficult temperment from 2 well tempered parents to find the grd dam was a complete b@tch.  Temperment can be such a man made thing, but I do believe that you should at least start out with both parents being easy to deal with.  I would not use a sharp stallion on a sharp or nervy mare.
At the top end of competition though, most of these good horses live off their nerves.  And what is a difficult temperment for one person is nothing to another.


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## SusieT (4 September 2010)

Sorry but if you have foals standing in stables 24/7 as your post implies, with a grill for company (or not!) I can see that they will be obstreperous and difficult to handle...


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## Eothain (4 September 2010)

Puissance is one of Ireland's hidden gems. He never really got the respect or credit he deserved until pretty recently. My own top jumping horse is by him and she is a full sister to the International Eventer, Dromgurrihy Blue.

Two more high achievers by him are Highpark Lad, who competed in the Hickstead Derby this year and Horseware Bushman is going to the WEG on the Irish Eventing squad.

I have my nice Duca Di Busted x Laughton's Flight mare in foal to him and if there's a colt, I can assure you, he'll be given every chance to prove his worth as a potential stallion.

Ireland _needs_ a stallion son or 5 by Puissance

www.ballyquirkestud.weebly.com


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## GinnieRedwings (4 September 2010)

SusieT said:



			Sorry but if you have foals standing in stables 24/7 as your post implies, with a grill for company (or not!) I can see that they will be obstreperous and difficult to handle...
		
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Alec... This is also what I understood from your post. Please tell us those foals are getting some turnout... 

I think my 5 months old absolute poppet of a colt would be an agressive monster if he wasn't turned out 24/7 with a herd of other horses to teach him social etiquette and manners - and play with him and drain that huge amount of energy of his.


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## Alec Swan (4 September 2010)

Ginnieredwings,

fear not,  the post was started last year,  December from memory,  and when someone asked for pics of the stallion Puissance!  

The colt foal was very difficult.  We were,  to be really truthful,  both frightened of each other.  Whilst I will explain why,  later,  it actually wasn't his fault,  but he was approaching being dangerous.

When I've had to deal with a fearful youngster,  I have never,  previously had a problem with them.  I will usually ignore aggression, and with a subdued,  patient and calm approach,  EVERY foal which I've ever dealt with has very quickly found me to be acceptable.  It can be done in a day or a week,  but they always come round.  With trust and understanding we bond,  and with mutual respect.  That's the way that it should be done.  Well,  that's what I think.

I have my own rather potted thoughts about foals.  I may well be shot down now,  but I think that we should either do everything with them,  or nothing.  By that,  I mean that they should either be handled daily,  so that they may learn from day one,  or nothing should be done,  so that at weaning,  then "we" come as something of a surprise.  Generally,  youngsters will seek a degree of acceptance  from us,  and to support my argument,  consider those 2 and 3 year olds,  which come,  often  from Ireland,  many of which have never had a human hand laid on them.  With cautious and considerate treatment,  do they not settle?

The problem with our colt was that he was stroked,  his bum was scratched,  he had lots of love and kisses,  over the gate and he generally had everything his own way.  The simple fact is that at no point did he learn any respect for humans.  He learnt to accept his mother,  and the boundaries which she set,  but he saw humans as a complete irrelevance.  None of this,  incidentally,  was my choice,  as I rather let things go,  and allowed knowledgable horse owners,  who,  by their own admission,  knew nothing of foals,  to have their way.  To underline my point, we have a colt foal this year,  and as I've forbidden others to mess him about,  he's a lovely little man.

The young man in question,  Master Flynn,  is probably the most delightful yearling which I've ever bred.  He is totally accepting of what ever I do,  and he seems to like me as much as I do him!  He has also lived out for the last eight months,  you'll be relieved to hear!  

Alec.


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## Rollin (5 September 2010)

Alec Swan said:



			For those of you who were interested in what the horse looks like,  this is him.  I'm not certain of this,  but so I understand,  there are no stallions by him.  I'm not surprised.  I have a colt foal,  and he would be everything which I could ask for,  but for the fact that he is VERY sharp.  He is needlessly aggressive,  and I'm not not for being that tolerant!!  Alec. 
	
	
		
		
	


	




Click to expand...

Is this an Emperor's Clothes joke?  or Nelson "I see no pics"


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## Alec Swan (5 September 2010)

Rollin,

as the pic was posted 9 months ago,  it seems to have been replaced by the little blue square,  with a question mark.  The King is currently in the alltogether,  and I don't know how to re-cloth him.  Sorry.

Alec.


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## GinnieRedwings (5 September 2010)

Alec. Thank you so much for taking the time to clarify.
I was expecting this was just a misunderstanding and as another poster had picked up on the matter, I wanted to make sure you would clear it up for us.

I actually completely agree with you about the all or nothing approach to handling foals. I would also argue that "nothing" is better unless the "all" is done really correctly - it is much easier to educate an untouched weanling, who might be fearful (but as you correctly said quiet consistent patience usually wins the day) but is certainly innately respectful of people and understands the rules of engagement within a herd, than one that has been badly handled and allowed to think walking all over people is ok - the horror story of that foal that was allowed to jump up on the vet like a puppy dog springs to mind (brrrrrr...)

As I am typing this I just turned around to see our 10 week-old Jack Russell puppy attacking my daughter's fluffy slippers, whilst she's giggling, encouraging the behaviour because she thinks its cute and funny... training children to behave the right way with baby animals, so that they become well-adjusted grown animals is as much of a challenge as to try and convince some horse owners to recognise that their horse's little everyday rude behaviours (rubbing heads on their shoulder, pushing them away with their nose, leaning against them...) is not that the horse "loves" them... he is merely asserting dominance over the owner  he would not even dare thinking about doing any of that to the alpha mare in his herd My ISH broodmare is definitely the alpha mare in our little gang. A couple of friends and I keep our horses together in a small herd  I always say to them, when they find it difficult to decide whether their horses behaviour is acceptable, to think whether their horse would behave that way with Tis (the broodmare)  they have found that it was a very good way of understanding/recognising true respectful behaviour from a horse. Tis is not a bully. She just commands respect. I want to be that to all horses I handle, all of the time. People confuse love and respect rather a lot  I believe the only way horses can get to love people is if they respect them  the way they respect the alpha mare in the herd. If you want unconditional love, get a dog and even then, not all of them will love you without respecting you first

I digress rather a lot from the point I was trying to make. I personally prefer handling foals a lot from day dot. I wont use the word overhandling, which a lot of people still think is wrong in relation to foals. I obviously disagree! Correct daily handling is the best - though not the only - way to create a well adjusted adult horse. It sets them up for the rest of their life.


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## Allover (5 September 2010)

I believe foals should be handled from day dot too, but do not think they should be treated like big fluffy teddy bears (which is very hard as they are soo damn cute!!). The best advice i was given when i started with foals was to treat them like an older horse, if you dont agree with the behaviour let them know, just as their mother would.


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