# HELP!!! Saddle fitting dilema, very wide and flat backed.



## rowy (26 July 2011)

Wondered if any one had any solutions to my new problem. My 4 year old is proving to be a huge pain to saddle fit. 
He is very very wide ( I mean on wintec and thorowgood saddles he is xxwide) No saddles will stay still on his back either. After trying out countless different saddles, the only ones which kinda fit was a thorowgood t6. So we rode round on it and as soon as we cantered it slipped and I mean loads, the saddler said she hasnt seen anything like it. His canter is SO big and he is SO uphill that the saddle doesnt have any stability. 

The saddler is really puzzled by which saddle might fit. She is having a barnsby saddle widened as it fitted quite well on his back but was just far too narrow as it was. She's also gonna ring around some other saddlers to see if they had any other ideas. 

So can any of you help me?


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## horseywelsh (26 July 2011)

How about a Native Pony Saddle Company saddle?
I have one of these on a very wide, flat backed highland pony and it is great. It hasn't moved when we have hunted, it's great for showing and comfy enough/has some knee roll for dressage. They come with 4 girth straps, and I use the point strap and back strap and never had any problems with it moving. Do have it rebalanced every 6 months as I do with all mine.
Also have a very big moving welsh and found the Ideal Suzzanah dressage saddle to fit him well (having tried numerous), but he is only wide to xw so not as wide as yours and does have a small wither.


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## Jane_Lou (26 July 2011)

I had nightmares with my connies until they got past 6-7, they had very little wither and flat, wide backs. J particluarly was a massive problem as everything either rolled round on him or shot up his neck or shot backwards - nothing would stay put!  I had some success with Ideal saddles, not the H&C type, just their normal tree, one was a WHP and one a GP. J then went into a WH saddle, I can't remember the make, I still have it somewhere, it just sat well off his shoulder so was not pushed back, B had a Hastilow WH saddle, they both had some knee roll and we managed to event B in his for a year until he finally developed some shape and we were then able to get him an Albion Kontrol for jumping and an Albion SL for dressage. J now has an ideal VSD for every day and a Saddle Company Verona dressage saddle, which fits him really well as they mould to the horse and is very adjustable width wise. J particularly has big shoulders which pushed lots of saddles back. I still have both wh saddles if you would like to try them/borrow one of them for a while if they fitted, I know what babies are like, they change shape so much you don't want to be spending money now as no doubt in a few months whatever you get now won't fit anyway!


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## Herts05 (26 July 2011)

Look at Strada Saddles. Not available through saddlers but contact Ilga and she will advise you over the phone initially. Second hand ones are sometimes available via her forum site. Google Strada UK and this will take you to their site


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## rowy (26 July 2011)

Thanks. I love ideal saddles, particularly the jessica but the saddler doesnt seem to think these will be wide enough. His added problem is that his shoulder isnt really very prominant either so nothing to balance the saddle against. 
I should have said as well, he is my dressage horse so mainly looking for a dressage saddle. At the moment I have been using a wintec 500 but just found out its been bridging and so creating pressure points as well as slipping around. 
The barnsby she is getting adjusted can be adjusted hugely apparently by changing the tree so I can change it as he grows.


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## Bethie (26 July 2011)

I've PM'd you, but just to add to what I said there, I have just sold an Ideal Jessica that I had made up on the H&C tree in XXW, don't think it cost anymore than the standard price to have it made up either (although this was 10 years ago!).


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## zxp (26 July 2011)

We are having this problem with my neices pony. She is off the scale of wintecs, and is basically a table top. 

I have heard very good things about the Native Pony Saddle Company, but they are a little out of our price range as we didn't want to pay £800 on a saddle for a loan pony who said neice (who is growing like a weed) will outgrown within a couple of years. 

We have got a treeless saddle being delivered this week. I have no idea what it will be like, but there are a number of websites with really usefull info on treeless saddles for these arkward types. There are different styles for different disciplines and they dont all look "wierd"!! Apparently they are very comfortable too. If you were interested, I could let you know what we think once it has been delivered?


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## rowy (26 July 2011)

cool thanks zxp, would be interested to hear your thoughts on it as I havent been overly keen on treeless in the past but if no saddles with trees suit then will definitely be a path to go down. 

And thanks Herts05, the dressage saddle sounds perfect so far on that website! have emailed her to see what she thinks about being able to sit his movement but the "c" shape sounds like it would suit him!


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## Herpesas (26 July 2011)

Have you tried Lavinia Mitchell saddles - they go a LOT wider than your average saddle and do very well on my friend's herd of very table top native ponies.  I also have one for my XXWide warmblood.

http://www.laviniamitchell.com/


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## Foxymumma (26 July 2011)

I know wow saddles can be built to the horse's shape but I have no idea if they come in such a wide fitting, may be worth a shot though as they are incredibly comfortable saddles plus you can change the flaps to suit whatever dicipline you take part in. Im just about to start looking for a saddle for my rather wide pony, who is like a footstool he is so flat backed... not looking forward to it! lol


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## zxp (26 July 2011)

Oh yes, I am very sceptical about the whole treeless route too, but if it is the only thing that fits wthin out budget, it will have to do. It should be deliveredon thursday and we will ride in it over the weekend and can let you know next week.

Another option could be WOW saddles as I hear they have a verrrry wide and adjustable range (plus they are totally gorgeous to ride in!).


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## HandsOnHorses (26 July 2011)

Try Duett, they only make saddle for wide horses - I have a Haflinger, and the Duett is the only one that hasnt slipped. They are beautifully made, and horses don't come any wider or flatter than Haffies! Good luck!


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## TarrSteps (27 July 2011)

I'd also suggest looking at the Duetts - they are quite popular in North America for draught crosses and stock breeds, both of which tend to be a different shape than the sort of horses dressage saddles are traditionally made for.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but I've found 4 and 5 year olds, particularly very "round" ones (so, as you say, little shoulder or wither definition) to be an absolute b****er for saddles.  I've often ended up changing saddles every couple of months (!) for horses like that, only to have them eventually end up in what they wore originally when they finally stopped growing.  I know a saddler can't see the future or plan for every eventuality but a good one should at least be aware that your horse will probably continue on his shape shifting path for some time!


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## air78 (27 July 2011)

The Heather Moffett saddles are comfy to fide in and fit wide horses.  They put you in an amazing position as well  You can get them on ebay secondhand.

http://www.enlightenedequitation.com/saddles_intro.htm

The saddle company saddles go up to VERY wide fittings and are nice and soft flocked, so easy to get a good fit with. They are a very good price both new and second hand (secondhand can be adjusted by a Saddle co fitter).


http://www.thesaddlecompany.co.uk/


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## OneInAMillion (27 July 2011)

Since buying a WOW I can honestly say my mother and I hate anything else.

I also think the WOW saddles probably go much wider than you would need...
http://www.fteltd.co.uk/wow/wowfitting.htm

The headplates (gullets) are the second picture down


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## K27 (27 July 2011)

Black Country will do made to measure, and imho the Wintecs /Bates etc etc "wide" don't actually go that wide!- although Bates have just bought out a new wide range- may be worth a look.  Also, have you tried a kent & masters dressage- they seem to fit nicely.

If the back is flat then maybe a saddle with a flatter panel would fit better, so something with more of a close contact feel?- the newer Albion K2's are very nice and may be worth a try or -an Amerigo CC saddle- in the past when my horses innova stopped fitting him as the wide wasn't wide enough, saddlers struggled to find something suitable and i switched him to an Albion k2 on the genesis tree- the headplate is changeable by Albion.

i've now got one of mine back in an Amerigo- the one which is between a close contact and a deep seat model, and he loves it!, and fits well and doesn't move. 

Also do bear in mind your horse will change loads shape wise between 4 yrs and 8 yrs.  I lost count of the saddles one of mine got through between those ages!

Good luck- hope you find something you like and that fits soon!


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## flyingfeet (27 July 2011)

I would also recommend the wow - the do a headplate that is nearly flat 
Plus I'll bet any money this one is going to change shape, so at least with a wow you'll be able to do that without having to buy lots of new saddles!


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## Tempi (27 July 2011)

Ive got a Wow saddle which i had from my WB initially and loved it, then had it changed to fit my flat backed cob and hated it - i was dubious with the fit anyway as i had to use a different fitter to my usual one, but it just didnt suit my mares shape at all.  I've still got the saddle and am hoping that it might fit my 3yo next year when he starts doing proper work.  He isnt as wide as my mare, nor as flat backed, although he is in an XW Wintec at the moment.  

I have an H-Girth which i used on my mare with my Wow saddle which definitely helped with the stability, but she hated it (they really dont look that comfortable) so think im going to sell it on ebay/BD at some stage.

Im going to be in the same situation as you once my mare comes back into work (shes just had a foal) and ive no idea where to start looking for saddles as im going to have a small budget aswell (no more than £600 including fitting) as shes 19 now and will be going out on share/loan i dont want an expensive saddle for her.  

Anyway, ive gone off track, sorry!! I really like the look of the Strada saddles, they look lovely


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## flyingfeet (27 July 2011)

Worth saying with Tempi's post that wow's are not a one size fits all 

Some horses will need curved trees and others flat - buying a new seat is £250+ secondhand and very expensive new (guessing £600+)

The panels also may need to be changed as flat horses will need SD panels - probably SDWG (Wide Gullet), whereas a defined wither will generally require D panels with a little extra at the front (so mine in a DWG) 

You could not put a curved tree with D panels on a flat back cob as it just wouldn't ever fit properly. 

The sight bummer is that some wow fitters were putting SDWG panels on everything and trying to compensate by pumping up the front. I think this is why so many people had problems with their wows IMHO


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## rowy (27 July 2011)

Thanks everyone. 
I am not keen on WOW saddles just cos I am really really not keen on air in the pannels, especially as hes so flat backed, I think it wont give as much and will be more likely to roll. 

I have also just decided against treeless as had a chat with a friend who does saddle fitting and she said dont touch them with a barge pole as they dont disperse weight like a treed saddle and create pressure points, espeically where the stirrup bars attach. also the seat has to be made more rigid for it to sit. 

Have decided that a saddle with a flatter pannel is better and probably felt. Have been emailing the "strada" saddle lady as they look fab. looking into any close contact saddles as well. Plus those native pony saddles may be a possibility.


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## SpottedCat (27 July 2011)

Just to add another one into the mix, the little horse I just sold was very round - even when fit, he was barrel shaped. I have an albion selecta XW which has had the points of the tree lifted, so they don't dig into the shoulder. It fitted him really well, but as TS says, I did have the saddler out every couple of months to change the flocking in it and get it to sit properly on him. In his new home I believe they are using a Balance saddle on him.


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## superpony (27 July 2011)

I had the same problem, I got an ideal and my saddler sent it to the ideal factory to be widened to fit him.


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## imr (27 July 2011)

Hiya, I have a 5 yo mare that similarly is proving tricky. She is wide though not as flat as yours I think and most saddles move about, some quite alarmingly!! In the end I have gone for a black country which is semi bespoke - basically I tried the eloquence tree in 17.5 and it fitted but was a bit short though stable and with saddler decided to go for 18 and get adjustable blocks and a deep gusset. They can do most things and I'm told it will be about 3 weeks before it turns up. Its 1400 or so so at least I'm not spending amerigo type money on something that may well need changing.  
I have an albion on my wide flat backed gelding and that is great on him but saddler said that panel shape isn't right for her, but its perfect on him so if he is more that shape they may be worth looking at too.


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## imr (27 July 2011)

Oh and another thing, they can move the location of the front girth strap and make it a point strap and pass it under the block which will anchor the whole lot better, so whatever you get this may be a good idea.


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## MillionDollar (27 July 2011)

I would also suggest a WOW as everything can be altered to fit him. FWIW I think the Flair panels would actually benefit him a lot!


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## cadburysmummy (28 July 2011)

Hi.  Just found your post.  We went through about 6 or 7 saddles in a short space of time for our rather broad Highland/Arab X for exactly the same reasons.  If it fitted him properly over the back it would end up over his shoulders.  We eventually ended up with an Ideal VSD, which he has now had for about 8 years.  VSD slightly straighter cut flaps suited him perfectly and was a good combo for all disciplines.  Leather looks as good today as it did when it was new.  Also think that although you can buy these off the shelf, if you get a saddle fitter out to take his measurements, Ideal do a made to measure service for not much more money.  Good luck.


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## Sandylou (28 July 2011)

I too have a young flat back, no wither, cob! I've been riding in a Wintec Wide which fits but not perfectly. I have just ordered a Saddle Company Cob saddle. The tree is guarenteed for 10 years and is fully adjustable by a SC fitter. It is flocked with serge wool which moulds to the shape of the horse and it has 3 normal girth straps plus a point strap and a blance strap. Custom made, brand new it costs around £635 which includes initial measure up, fitting when it arrives and a check up after a couple of weeks.
I've heard great things about them!!
Good Luck


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## dizz4 (28 July 2011)

rowy said:



			Wondered if any one had any solutions to my new problem. My 4 year old is proving to be a huge pain to saddle fit. 
He is very very wide ( I mean on wintec and thorowgood saddles he is xxwide) No saddles will stay still on his back either. After trying out countless different saddles, the only ones which kinda fit was a thorowgood t6. So we rode round on it and as soon as we cantered it slipped and I mean loads, the saddler said she hasnt seen anything like it. His canter is SO big and he is SO uphill that the saddle doesnt have any stability. 

The saddler is really puzzled by which saddle might fit. She is having a barnsby saddle widened as it fitted quite well on his back but was just far too narrow as it was. She's also gonna ring around some other saddlers to see if they had any other ideas. 

So can any of you help me?
		
Click to expand...

We use Wintec Wide on our flat backed cobs with a non slip numnah (we Limpet anti slip and some new anti slip rubber which looks like a mesh which is quite breathable)

just a suggestion as it works well on our cobs and when they have put on weight, they have no withers, my daughters pony is the worst and her saddle slips a little but not much on her rotund welsh cob...

good luck with your search...

Izzy


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## amandaco2 (28 July 2011)

another thing to consider is you can get flocked wow saddles, if you wanted to go down that route.
i found my wide flat backed coloured suited a prestige saddle, although it suits her esp well as shes also v short coupled.
you may find once he is in harder work he will get more of a toned shape up top and need a completely different saddle again (probably a few months after you find one to fit hehe)


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## Louis (14 August 2011)

Goodness - you lot have had some problems - with a decent fitter you do not need a new saddle every few months, or even every year. Lavinia Mitchell does this size as standard, when you listen you will understand enough to make up your own minds - wide horses and big shoulders are no problem


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