# Adder bites. Be vigilant



## Goya (23 June 2013)

This was posted by one of the vet practices local to me the other day. Thought it worth sharing. I can't get the picture to copy but it shows a very swollen elbow.


WARNING- we have had another snakebite case in today. The dog was bitten in Lings wood yesterday. As you can see from the photo her elbow is very swollen and if you look closely you can see the two punture wounds close together. Please be vigilant when walking your dogs as adders ar more active in warmer weather and will bite if they feel threatened. Adder bites can have serious consequences for pets due to their small size so the sooner they receive treatment the better. if you think your pet may have been bitten do not attempt first aid measures such as sucking out the venom or applying a tourniquet - these procedures are ineffective and may even cause further harm to your pet. Try to keep your pet calm and wherever possible carry your dog rather than let it walk. Both these
 measures will help slow the spread of venom around the body. Please share this


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## FinnishLapphund (23 June 2013)

I've heard that they're most likely to be bitten on legs (while walking/running by the snake) or in the face (when wanting to investigate what the snake is etc.). As the text mentions, it helps if you're abe to carry your dog home/to your car/to the veterinarian, because the more still the body is + the calmer they are, the blood is pumped slower around their body, and the venom doesn't travel faster than the blood, to the other areas in the body where it can cause more harm. 
In a more active dog (or agitated), the blood is pumped faster, so, especially if the dog is bitten in a leg, by carrying a dog with an adder bite, you may buy yourself more time to get to the veterinarian. 

If you have a long distance to walk, remember that, in general, people can carry more weight on their shoulders than in their arms. Go down on all four/bend down, position the dog's belly on your neck/shoulder area, as you stand up, take hold of the legs with your hands. 












If you train on carrying your dog like this, you can of course set it up so that it is easier to get them up. 







Some examples of (mostly) dogs with adder bites, found through Google image search:






A cat






A Cocker Spaniel






A Labrador Retriever






This is actually a Pharaoh Hound


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## MiJodsR2BlinkinTite (23 June 2013)

Poor doggies (and pussy cat).

Am gonna be controversial here....... but in the old days if anyone found an adder in the countryside they'd whack it over the head with summinck and that would be that, job done, sorted, and it wouldn't be a danger to anyone: either cattle/horses, kids or dogs.

Now the bleddy things are "protected" and therefore are out there to be a danger to everyone. Perhaps the idiots who decided on protecting them should send their kiddies out on a nature ramble in the countryside where adders are known to be, and just wait for them to be bitten by the blimmin things.

But I am aware that there will be plenty of "do gooders" on here who'll disagree with me!!


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## Dobiegirl (23 June 2013)

MiJodsR2BlinkinTite said:



			Poor doggies (and pussy cat).

Am gonna be controversial here....... but in the old days if anyone found an adder in the countryside they'd whack it over the head with summinck and that would be that, job done, sorted, and it wouldn't be a danger to anyone: either cattle/horses, kids or dogs.

Now the bleddy things are "protected" and therefore are out there to be a danger to everyone. Perhaps the idiots who decided on protecting them should send their kiddies out on a nature ramble in the countryside where adders are known to be, and just wait for them to be bitten by the blimmin things.

But I am aware that there will be plenty of "do gooders" on here who'll disagree with me!!
		
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Well call me a do gooder why dont you. I happen to think everything has its place, adders are shy retiring creatures and probabley more dogs and humans are killed by bees than snakes.

Ive got friends who live in Africa and they live along side lots of dangerous animals but they accept the risks and get on with life.

When walking my dogs I purposely wouldnt go to areas where adders are known to live, we have several of these places local to me and I avoid them like the plague.


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## Superhot (23 June 2013)

I always carry Piriton tablets with me, as my walks are usually in forests and I know snakes are around, so if my dogs get bitten, I would give a couple of tablets immediately to help slow down the poisoning whilst getting to the nearest vet.


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## YasandCrystal (23 June 2013)

Dobiegirl said:



			Well call me a do gooder why dont you. I happen to think everything has its place, adders are shy retiring creatures and probabley more dogs and humans are killed by bees than snakes.

Ive got friends who live in Africa and they live along side lots of dangerous animals but they accept the risks and get on with life.

When walking my dogs I purposely wouldnt go to areas where adders are known to live, we have several of these places local to me and I avoid them like the plague.
		
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well said.


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## FinnishLapphund (23 June 2013)

I'm not a fan of snakes, but based on being dangerous for children and adults in the UK, I don't think adders deserves getting a whack over the head. According to what I've read, statistics for/from the United Kingdom: 

1,901 persons died in road accidents in 2011 (the majority involved cars). 
765 persons was murdered in 2010/11 (636 persons in England & Wales, 101 persons in Scotland and 28 in Northern Ireland as I understand the numbers on this site http://www.citizensreportuk.org/reports/murders-fatal-violence-uk.html ).
About 5 persons per year dies by bee or wasp stings. 
12 persons in the last 100 years (/14 persons in the last 130 years) have died after adder bites. 


Besides, it doesn't seem like they're that aggressive, in defence of adders I will add the following example: 




			from dailyrecord.co.uk/scottish-news/Hiker tells of her terror after a venomous snake bit her as she held it for a photo

"A HIKER has told of her terror after a snake bit her as she held it up for a photograph.

Angie Roches hand ballooned to three times its normal size after the incident while hillwalking with fiance Jim Crawford, 52.

They stumbled across an adder the UKs only poisonous snake in undergrowth in Ben Lomond in Argyll. Jim picked it up and Angie, 50, took pictures of him posing with it.

But as they swapped places, the two-and-a-half foot adder sank its fangs into Angies finger.

The pair continued their hike but Angie was soon in pain. And when her hand started swelling badly, they rushed to the Southern General Hospital in Glasgow.

Medics were forced to study lorry driver Jims snaps of the snake and consult an expert before treating Angie. The victim, from Glasgow, said: When we first went in, the doctors didnt believe us. But they soon realised we were telling the truth.

It was then I realised how serious things were. We found out 14 people had died from adder bites over the years.

They injected me with anti-venomous steroids. It was like I was being stabbed. It was a really frightening experience but Im here to tell the tale. I will never pick up another snake."
		
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So first the man held the adder while x photos was taken, and only as they tried to pass the adder over to her, the adder bit. After reading that, I definitely doesn't think that it is the adders that needs a (non-lethal) whack in the head? 




 

I wish more people learned/understood that wild animals are in fact wild, and realised that we actually share our environment with wild animals, whether we notice them or not, the biggest difference is usually that sometimes/in some areas there is more of them, and sometimes/in some areas there is less.


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## Luci07 (23 June 2013)

Interesting posts. As a matter of interest, is there anywhere you can find out if there are adders around? I have a seriously off roading Staffie who would be one of the first to stick her nose where it wasn't wanted.


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## Vicstress (23 June 2013)

MiJodsR2BlinkinTite said:



			Poor doggies (and pussy cat).

Am gonna be controversial here....... but in the old days if anyone found an adder in the countryside they'd whack it over the head with summinck and that would be that, job done, sorted, and it wouldn't be a danger to anyone: either cattle/horses, kids or dogs.

Now the bleddy things are "protected" and therefore are out there to be a danger to everyone. Perhaps the idiots who decided on protecting them should send their kiddies out on a nature ramble in the countryside where adders are known to be, and just wait for them to be bitten by the blimmin things.

But I am aware that there will be plenty of "do gooders" on here who'll disagree with me!!
		
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Exactly the reason why we're screwing up this planet!


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## FinnishLapphund (24 June 2013)

Luci07 said:



			Interesting posts. As a matter of interest, is there anywhere you can find out if there are adders around? I have a seriously off roading Staffie who would be one of the first to stick her nose where it wasn't wanted.
		
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I haven't been able to find any map, but it seemed like this page: hadleywildlife/How to find and observe adders in the wild had some good advice about how to recognise what type of land and habitat that adders prefer.


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## MiJodsR2BlinkinTite (24 June 2013)

OK so I knew my comments would raise some dust on here!

Firstly, I'd like to know if I'm out in the countryside anywhere in the UK....... then HOW am I (or my dogs, or anybody's kids) gonna know where there are adders? So that they can avoid them? They don't exactly announce their presence saying OK here we are, poisonous snakes around, avoid us!!! 

Yes whilst I accept that in the case mentioned above, some people were deliberately stupid in handling the snake and antagonising it, and therefore got bitten (and serve them right); however I still maintain that it is, shall we say, less than wise, to allow a poisonous snake to proliferate, bearing in mind the possible consequences. I know there is a place in Dorset where historically local people are aware that the venom of the local adders is particularly strong, and fatalities have resulted from people being bitten.

I bet if anyone on here had a situation where their kid, or pet, or horse, was bitten and they were either seriously affected and/or lost their lives because of it, they'd feel differently.

TBH don't think the argument about poisonous snakes and people living side by side abroad, has any relevance, but I DO know from having visited Africa just how many people are bitten by poisonous snakes who later die in awful pain and the distress this causes to relatives. But that is an aside.

Think that in the UK we are a small island, and our population is growing, and lots of people who haven't got a clue what they're doing (and therefore with no awareness that they might discover an adder in the right country) are going out and exploring the countryside, and my fear is that someone's toddler is going to get bitten and lose their life. Fine if its not YOUR toddler I guess. But I see it as an inevitable consequence of "protecting" a poisonous and potential dangerous creature like a poisonous snake. 

Sorry, but that's the way I see it.


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## planete (24 June 2013)

More people are killed by horses than by adders...Please keep well away from horses!


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## Spudlet (24 June 2013)

planete said:



			More people are killed by horses than by adders...Please keep well away from horses! 

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And cows! DON'T TRUST THE COWS...

I wonder how big a stick I'd need to whack one of _them_ over the head (goes to seek out massive log to carry on walks).

Disclaimer: I am not actually advocating hitting cows on the head. Although if I did, I'd suggest putting them in the bin afterwards (remember that one CC?)


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## Nikki J (24 June 2013)

MiJodsR2BlinkinTite said:



			Poor doggies (and pussy cat).

Am gonna be controversial here....... but in the old days if anyone found an adder in the countryside they'd whack it over the head with summinck and that would be that, job done, sorted, and it wouldn't be a danger to anyone: either cattle/horses, kids or dogs.

Now the bleddy things are "protected" and therefore are out there to be a danger to everyone. Perhaps the idiots who decided on protecting them should send their kiddies out on a nature ramble in the countryside where adders are known to be, and just wait for them to be bitten by the blimmin things.

But I am aware that there will be plenty of "do gooders" on here who'll disagree with me!!
		
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I'm not a do-gooder but I TOTALLY disagree with you.  Snakes will not attack humans or dogs without provocation.  I entirely accept that a child could innocently be going about his business and have the misfortune to tread on an adder and get bitten.  This is very unfortunate but extremely unlikely to cause permanent damage, although I understand the bite can be very painful and I am sure that there will be instances very sadly of children and dogs dying from anaphylactic shock following a bite.

Several hundred, if not thousands, of human beings are killed by bee stings every year.  This is sad and very tragic, but were we to "whack every single bee over the head", then there would be no life left on earth as bees and other pollinating insects are vital.

Far from being a tree hugger, bunny hugger, or any type of hugger, nevertheless I personally do not believe that as a species us humans have to right to mercilessly kill another species just because they prove to be inconvenient to us.

The answer of course is to teach our children to be careful when playing in woodlands, on sand dunes, cliffs etc. etc. where animals that might bite them live, such as adders.  We sadly don't have adders round these parts, but I would always teach my daughter to be careful when playing in long grass, dense undergrowth etc. just in case there might be a wasp nest there.


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## Nikki J (24 June 2013)

MiJodsR2BlinkinTite said:



			OK so I knew my comments would raise some dust on here!

Firstly, I'd like to know if I'm out in the countryside anywhere in the UK....... then HOW am I (or my dogs, or anybody's kids) gonna know where there are adders? So that they can avoid them? They don't exactly announce their presence saying OK here we are, poisonous snakes around, avoid us!!! 

Yes whilst I accept that in the case mentioned above, some people were deliberately stupid in handling the snake and antagonising it, and therefore got bitten (and serve them right); however I still maintain that it is, shall we say, less than wise, to allow a poisonous snake to proliferate, bearing in mind the possible consequences. I know there is a place in Dorset where historically local people are aware that the venom of the local adders is particularly strong, and fatalities have resulted from people being bitten.

I bet if anyone on here had a situation where their kid, or pet, or horse, was bitten and they were either seriously affected and/or lost their lives because of it, they'd feel differently.

TBH don't think the argument about poisonous snakes and people living side by side abroad, has any relevance, but I DO know from having visited Africa just how many people are bitten by poisonous snakes who later die in awful pain and the distress this causes to relatives. But that is an aside.

Think that in the UK we are a small island, and our population is growing, and lots of people who haven't got a clue what they're doing (and therefore with no awareness that they might discover an adder in the right country) are going out and exploring the countryside, and my fear is that someone's toddler is going to get bitten and lose their life. Fine if its not YOUR toddler I guess. But I see it as an inevitable consequence of "protecting" a poisonous and potential dangerous creature like a poisonous snake. 

Sorry, but that's the way I see it.
		
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Still totally disagree with you!  Were my soon to be born grandchild bitten and killed by an adder (highly unlikely, but nonetheless he or she could be unfortunate enough to be seriously allergic to the venom and die) I would still feel no different.  We cannot wrap ourselves or our children up in cotton wool, or we can do is to teach them to be careful, to respect the countryside and the animals that live therein, and be sensible.  No snake will ever attack for no reason - I have photographs of me with my then boyfriend walking through a woodland in Sri Lanka to get to a deserted beach.  We ended up wading through a little stream to reach the beach, and as we paddled along a beautiful little orange and brown coloured snake was swimming along in front of us.  We didn't want to frighten him, so we stopped and my husband took a video and also some photos.  We ran the video via the camera past some locals in our hotel, and they told us that it was a coral snake and deadly poisonous!  So what?  We didn't panic when we saw it, we just calmly watched it, and it was swimming around keeping an eye on us as he went about his business.

Several kids our killed weekly in Sri Lanka from snake bite, but I never met anyone who said they killed the snakes, they just lived with them and accepted that they are part of life.  What about all the kids who get killed on our roads every year?  Do you go around whacking cars with sticks to render them immobile in case they run your child over??  Your argument is illogical.  Life is full of risks and dangers, this is part of life.


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## YasandCrystal (24 June 2013)

I agree with NikkiJ. There are loads of potential hazards out there - how about tics and Lymes disease - Rats and Weils disease - the former a dreadful sentence for anyone and the latter so often fatal. Adder bites are not high on the fatalities list. If you are that scared stick to the towns and threat of cars I say.
Cows have been responsible for numerous walkers deaths. That's life - there is a risk at every street corner of getting hit by a car and one just has to be careful to mitigate the risks. You can't start killing off every tiny threat. I went snorkelling many times in Egypt - I didn't expect the sharks to be harpooned and killed off to keep the tourists safe - it was a risk I took.


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## Nikki J (24 June 2013)

YasandCrystal said:



			I agree with NikkiJ. There are loads of potential hazards out there - how about tics and Lymes disease - Rats and Weils disease - the former a dreadful sentence for anyone and the latter so often fatal. Adder bites are not high on the fatalities list. If you are that scared stick to the towns and threat of cars I say.
Cows have been responsible for numerous walkers deaths. That's life - there is a risk at every street corner of getting hit by a car and one just has to be careful to mitigate the risks. You can't start killing off every tiny threat. I went snorkelling many times in Egypt - I didn't expect the sharks to be harpooned and killed off to keep the tourists safe - it was a risk I took.
		
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I think half the problem is that kids these days are brought up with everything handed to them on a plate.  They all have mobiles in case they get waylaid by a paedophile or run into any sort of danger, they have computers and tv's in their bedrooms, game boys and whatnot's, they never play in the woods, dam streams, climb trees, do anything dangerous, so they never learn to be sensible when out and about in the countryside or on the beach.  Our village is like a ghost town at weekends - there are no kids playing in our lane where my daughter and all her friends would play 20 years ago.  None of the kids go down to the woods and build dams in the stream, collect conkers to bash each other with, climb trees, make dens, play cowboys and indians.  They are all cooped up in their bedrooms on lovely sunny days on their computers!

They have no concept of caution when running through the woods on holiday - and then the parents start baying for blood when their little precious gets stung by a wasp, or bitten by an adder!


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## YasandCrystal (24 June 2013)

Oh mine get dirty in the countryside and one of the first things I taught them was to NEVER touch or pick up a snake or to touch a wasp/bees nest. But I agree far too many kids in bedrooms on the Xbox and countryside savvy is not passed onto them.

We have adders at my paddocks, along with sloworms, grass snakes, voles, stoats, buzzards, woodpeckers and deer to name a few. Amazing wildlife and all God's creatures and I wouldn't dream of killing any of them.

I and the family always wear boots of some sort so no chance of getting an adder bite. The dogs have never been bitten. I do believe that adders are a shy snake - don't bother them and they won't come hurting you.  That said a friend in Wiltshire sadly lost a pony bitten on the face by an adder. An unfortunate accident imo and just one of those things.


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## Nikki J (24 June 2013)

YasandCrystal said:



			Oh mine get dirty in the countryside and one of the first things I taught them was to NEVER touch or pick up a snake or to touch a wasp/bees nest. But I agree far too many kids in bedrooms on the Xbox and countryside savvy is not passed onto them.

We have adders at my paddocks, along with sloworms, grass snakes, voles, stoats, buzzards, woodpeckers and deer to name a few. Amazing wildlife and all God's creatures and I wouldn't dream of killing any of them.

I and the family always wear boots of some sort so no chance of getting an adder bite. The dogs have never been bitten. I do believe that adders are a shy snake - don't bother them and they won't come hurting you.  That said a friend in Wiltshire sadly lost a pony bitten on the face by an adder. An unfortunate accident imo and just one of those things.
		
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You sound a very sensible person!  So sad about the pony, but as you say, just an unfortunate accident, tragic and very sad, but going around bashing adders over the head is just plain daft in my opinion!  All you are going to do is to create even more fear of humans in adders' brains than they have already.  Just leave them alone and appreciate them for their beauty I would advise.  My 2 boys (Mal crosses) would be prime candidates for getting bitten as they will stick their beaks into everything.  so, when we were holidaying on Putsborough Beach in North Devon, we kept them well away from the sandy cliffs where there are warning signs about adders.  Simples!!


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## RLS (24 June 2013)

Dobiegirl said:



			Well call me a do gooder why dont you. I happen to think everything has its place, adders are shy retiring creatures and probabley more dogs and humans are killed by bees than snakes.

Ive got friends who live in Africa and they live along side lots of dangerous animals but they accept the risks and get on with life.

When walking my dogs I purposely wouldnt go to areas where adders are known to live, we have several of these places local to me and I avoid them like the plague.
		
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yup, I must be one of those "do-gooders" too then!
And I would hazard a guess that more dogs and people are killed by other DOGS and PEOPLE than anything else.
So, next time you're out walking your dog and meet a person, maybe you should whack them on the head with summit heavy and run away before THEY get you!


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## planete (24 June 2013)

May I add that I have had a small terrier bitten by an adder on the head.  She was rushed to the vet immediately and thankfully survived.  It is just one side of living in the countryside.  It certainly did not make me want to ever kill adders or even try to guess where they might be.  Pretty pointless paranoia in my book.


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## Dobiegirl (24 June 2013)

RLS said:



			yup, I must be one of those "do-gooders" too then!
And I would hazard a guess that more dogs and people are killed by other DOGS and PEOPLE than anything else.
So, next time you're out walking your dog and meet a person, maybe you should whack them on the head with summit heavy and run away before THEY get you! 

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Haha, I loved this answer, I really feel the other poster is getting things out of perspective, to avoid snake habitats local knowledge is needed. Where we live we get grass snakes but If I go up on the Mendips I know its an ideal habitat, its only a few miles from here and I think they prefer it up there. Having said that f-I-l did have a cow bitten by an adder a few years ago so they are around and Im aware but it dosnt take up much of my day thinking about it.

There was a post a month ago on soapbox of someone who found an adder on their patio, they had been sunbathing quite close to it and they had a dog  too but didnt feel the need to get a shovel and send it into the next world. They took some photos too and it was really beautiful.


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## Archangel (24 June 2013)

Luci07 said:



			Interesting posts. As a matter of interest, is there anywhere you can find out if there are adders around? I have a seriously off roading Staffie who would be one of the first to stick her nose where it wasn't wanted.
		
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I think you are in adder country Luci07 (I will pm you my location as I think I am quite near you).  This is one from my garden the other day adder on the patio

Between Guildford and Dorking is an adder stronghold, the heathy bits and then woodland out on to fields and bracken is ideal for them.  They don't seem to go out of their way to bite, only if disturbed whilst basking.  

ETS - after the close encounter with the adder I think they are fabulous and I am not at all worried about them, although I do keep piriton handy (mostly for the dogs sake!). 

You need to be especially watchful in the mornings when the sun is just out and a sleepy adder is either making its way to a basking spot or fast asleep in the sun.  They do seem to like patches of clear ground in bracken (just where the dogs like to go).  When the dog got bitten the adder was just crossing the path.  I was cross with myself as although the dog was right by my side I should have been more alert as it was a perfect 'adder day'.


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