# Kitten neuter - really unhelpful vets!



## cptrayes (13 April 2013)

In spite of buying two female kittens I definitely have a brother and sister. I was told that they were 11 weeks old, but for that age they are tiny and I am not sure that the young couple who had to part with them had it right how old they were.

Clearly, I don't want any more kittens and even if I did I don't want them from a brother and sister!

Given the confusion over their age, I asked my vet practice if they could give me  a size or weight guideline as to the earliest that they can be neutered. They won't do this.  They want me to take them in to the surgery, but the last place I want them to go if they don't need to is where there are sick animals. 

Can any of you wonderful people help me estimate how soon I might be able to get them done? Or tell me the warning signs that the pair would be fertile?


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## Meowy Catkin (13 April 2013)

I found this which I hope is helpful. 

http://www.fabcats.org/cat_group/policy_statements/neut.html


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## twiglet84 (13 April 2013)

We would castrate him at 4 months at my practice, spay at 5months xxxx


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## here_i_am (13 April 2013)

When i worked at CP, their vet would neuter at 2kg, regardless of age. They still look tiny then, but they never had any problems at all


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## cptrayes (13 April 2013)

Really helpful, thankyou everyone.

I think I'll go for the 2 kilo mark. She's closer to it than he is but I'll probably get them done together so they both feel off at the same time, they're very boisterous with each other   And very gorgeous too


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## TrasaM (13 April 2013)

You'll notice when the boy is ready to get, er, fixed  his bits will develop   my girl cat started to come into season at about 6 months. I thought she was ill as I'd never had a female cat before and couldn't understand why she kept dragging herself along the floor and was very vocal   little tart escaped and mated and result = 5 kittens!


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## Jools2345 (13 April 2013)

here_i_am said:



			When i worked at CP, their vet would neuter at 2kg, regardless of age. They still look tiny then, but they never had any problems at all 

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more risks are taken with CP kittens as they are in desperate need to home them, most vets dont neuter cats at a certain weight as it depends on body scoring a fat but small kitten is at far greater risk than a lean large one.

we wont book in for surgery without seeing them first to make sure they are fit and healthy before they are left with us for the day


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## s4sugar (13 April 2013)

You can get them checked over when they get vaccinated.

 I have my male kittens done at 14 weeks, females at 18 weeks, but that is an Australian vet with a lot of experience. The criteria is healthy & over a kilo at the girls are often only just over 2kg as adults.


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## Jools2345 (13 April 2013)

how old are the kittens?


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## ofcourseyoucan (13 April 2013)

get the boy done when he has 2 nice bits on show .. around 6 months, and the girl again around the 6 month mark. you will soon know if they are thinking of playing adult games with each other, but you should let them grow and mature a little before going for the chop!!


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## GinaB (14 April 2013)

Why don't you just take them in as I'm sure they need vaccinated anyway.

My kitten ended up being a lot younger than I was lead to believe and my vet was able to tell me roughly his age so we worked from there.


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## ILuvCowparsely (14 April 2013)

cptrayes said:



			In spite of buying two female kittens I definitely have a brother and sister. I was told that they were 11 weeks old, but for that age they are tiny and I am not sure that the young couple who had to part with them had it right how old they were.

Clearly, I don't want any more kittens and even if I did I don't want them from a brother and sister!

Given the confusion over their age, I asked my vet practice if they could give me  a size or weight guideline as to the earliest that they can be neutered. They won't do this.  They want me to take them in to the surgery, but the last place I want them to go if they don't need to is where there are sick animals. 

Can any of you wonderful people help me estimate how soon I might be able to get them done? Or tell me the warning signs that the pair would be fertile?
		
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Cp

 Being a foster of the *Cats Protection League  * 7 years I know our guidelines, they will do kittens as young as 4 months and weight wise they need to be weighed by your vet but about 4 kilos at least 

 check information here
http://www.cats.org.uk/cat-care/cat-care-faqs


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## touchstone (14 April 2013)

I'd just take them along to the vets too, I had to take a kitten when it was two days old in order to get lice treatment, annoying, but the vets have to keep themselves right and act in the animals best interests in the long run.

I think once they see and weigh them they'll book them in no probs, most vets are very pro neuter in my experience.


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## ILuvCowparsely (14 April 2013)

Jools2345 said:



			more risks are taken with CP kittens as they are in desperate need to home them, most vets dont neuter cats at a certain weight as it depends on body scoring a fat but small kitten is at far greater risk than a lean large one.

we wont book in for surgery without seeing them first to make sure they are fit and healthy before they are left with us for the day
		
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You are wrong in my 7 years with the CPL  we will not neuter till they are old enough or there is a reason for neutering early like feral kittens are often neutered early to try calm them a bit.  The CPL  as a whole do not take risks they are here to protect them not to put an animal at risk unless for health reason trying to save a cat.

Maybe your local branch runs things different but all the branches round here stick to this guidelines

 They do read these forums I know for a fact, I was pulled up once when *I said I worked for the CPL** They said you do not ** *work for the CPL you are a foster you are not on the payroll  so its incorrect to use the term *you work**


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## cptrayes (14 April 2013)

The document that was pointed to above is very interesting. Research indicates that there is no risk to later health in neutering as young as 8 weeks.

4 kilos  must be the wrong figure Leviathan. I have had adults that did not weigh that much and none of my cats would have weighed that before they were a year old.


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## Jools2345 (14 April 2013)

Leviathan said:



			You are wrong we will not neuter till they are old enough or there is a reason for neutering early like feral kittens are often neutered early to try calm them a bit.  The CPL do not take risks they are here ro protect them not to put an animal at risk unless for health reason trying to save a cat.
		
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where i work we neuter as young as 12wks for cpl, so they can get them out into homes at a time of yr that they will come into season early, it is a relatively new thing and is due to the long waiting list they have. and wanting to prevent more kittens


[Being a foster of the Cats Protection League 7 years I know our guidelines, they will do kittens as young as 4 months and weight wise they need to be weighed by your vet but about 4 kilos at least ]

many adult cats do not weigh 4 kilos!

and many vets will neuter at 10- 12wks or 1kg for breeders and rescue centres


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## Jools2345 (14 April 2013)

cptrayes said:



			The document that was pointed to above is very interesting. Research indicates that there is no risk to later health in neutering as young as 8 weeks.

4 kilos  must be the wrong figure Leviathan. I have had adults that did not weigh that much and none of my cats would have weighed that before they were a year old.
		
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i think the surgery is trickier due to the kittens being so small so all the body parts are tiny, possibly its due to less room for error with the aneathsetic (SPELLING, I KNOW) and body temp drops so quick as they have little body fat/mass.

so my understanding is it is not a risk in later life but at the time of the surgery although i have not discussed this with a vet


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## cptrayes (14 April 2013)

touchstone said:



			I'd just take them along to the vets too, I had to take a kitten when it was two days old in order to get lice treatment, annoying, but the vets have to keep themselves right and act in the animals best interests in the long run.

I think once they see and weigh them they'll book them in no probs, most vets are very pro neuter in my experience. 

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I know at least 2 vets who will book in unseen and refuse on the day if they don't want to do them. I am going to wait until they are both over 2 kilos, when they will both definitely be over 4 months old, and then get them booked in.

I don't vaccinate, so I don't want them anywhere near sick cats unless it's unavoidable.

And please, no lectures. I've had 3 cats at a time for the 22 years since I moved here and only twice have I ever taken one to a vet for any other reason than to neuter or to say goodbye. My cats are free range and fit, live to a good age, and never meet another cat because they live too far from any others.


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## ILuvCowparsely (14 April 2013)

cptrayes said:



			The document that was pointed to above is very interesting. Research indicates that there is no risk to later health in neutering as young as 8 weeks.

4 kilos  must be the wrong figure Leviathan. I have had adults that did not weigh that much and none of my cats would have weighed that before they were a year old.
		
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 oops was confusing pounds with kilos to early brain not in gear


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## ILuvCowparsely (14 April 2013)

Jools2345 said:



			where i work we neuter as young as s
		
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 are you on the payroll for the CPL????  if not you don't work your a volunteer


 right off to do horse  ta ta


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## cptrayes (14 April 2013)

Jools2345 said:



			i think the surgery is trickier due to the kittens being so small so all the body parts are tiny, possibly its due to less room for error with the aneathsetic (SPELLING, I KNOW) and body temp drops so quick as they have little body fat/mass.

so my understanding is it is not a risk in later life but at the time of the surgery although i have not discussed this with a vet
		
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There is still a fairly widely held belief that early neutering causes small urethra development and later urinary tract infections, especially in males. Faracat's document says this is completely untrue, which is good to know because it was what I was afraid of.


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## cptrayes (14 April 2013)

Leviathan said:



			are you on the payroll for the CPL????  if not you don't work your a volunteer


 right off to do horse  ta ta
		
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Excuse me? 

I do a volunteer job. I don't get paid but I work all right!!!


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## cptrayes (14 April 2013)

Leviathan said:



			oops was confusing pounds with kilos to early brain not in gear
		
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OK I've just weighted Snyph and she's three and a half pounds. Unfortunately I had to weigh myself in order to weigh her accurately


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## Jools2345 (14 April 2013)

i have PM'd you so as to not take over the thread with bad feeling 

OP most vets will neuter cats at 4 months (especially during spring and summer as females may come in to season earlier) many would prefer to wait till 6 months but they all vary so i would just call them and ask, they should discuss it over the phone and possibly just let you know that if you book them in unseen (there is as you mention) a risk they may not be done if the vet is not happy with the size or the health of them on the day, the girly may come in to season before 3 months although it unlikely


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## cptrayes (14 April 2013)

Jools2345 said:



			i have PM'd you so as to not take over the thread with bad feeling 

OP most vets will neuter cats at 4 months (especially during spring and summer as females may come in to season earlier) many would prefer to wait till 6 months but they all vary so i would just call them and ask, they should discuss it over the phone and possibly just let you know that if you book them in unseen (there is as you mention) a risk they may not be done if the vet is not happy with the size or the health of them on the day, the girly may come in to season before 3 months although it unlikely
		
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Of course s/he can refuse. The risk is mine. No problem.


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## touchstone (14 April 2013)

cptrayes said:



			I know at least 2 vets who will book in unseen and refuse on the day if they don't want to do them. I am going to wait until they are both over 2 kilos, when they will both definitely be over 4 months old, and then get them booked in.

I don't vaccinate, so I don't want them anywhere near sick cats unless it's unavoidable.

And please, no lectures. I've had 3 cats at a time for the 22 years since I moved here and only twice have I ever taken one to a vet for any other reason than to neuter or to say goodbye. My cats are free range and fit, live to a good age, and never meet another cat because they live too far from any others.
		
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No lectures from me, mine have the initial jabs and first booster and that's it. 

Fwiw, my last two cats I just rang and booked the appointment, the latest cat came into season so couldn't be done until a few days later, but she was tiny and undernourished and they still did her.


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## ILuvCowparsely (14 April 2013)

cptrayes said:



			Excuse me? 

I do a volunteer job. I don't get paid but I work all right!!!
		
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CP  that was not directed at you hun    I copied and pasted Jools thread,  and wrote to them not you 
 The CPL told me that people do not work for CPL they are volunteers  I just mentioned as  I read it that the other person worked for CPL I just pointed out we are volunteers not on the pay roll.   It was 100% not aimed at you


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## chattygoneon3 (14 April 2013)

A lecture I attended given by the Head Vet of the CP was about them encouraging the early neutering of cats from 8 weeks .This has obvious benefits as they are being neutered before they reach sexual maturity. At this age things are done differently,a different drug combination is used, temperature monitored closely and cats are not starved to reduce the risk of hypoglycemia. We routinely neuter from 5 months but will do them from 12 weeks. As different protocols are used we would want to see a kitten so a decision could be made on how it would be done. Hope this helps.


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## cptrayes (14 April 2013)

Leviathan said:



			CP  that was not directed at you hun    I copied and pasted Jools thread,  and wrote to them not you 
 The CPL told me that people do not work for CPL they are volunteers  I just mentioned as  I read it that the other person worked for CPL I just pointed out we are volunteers not on the pay roll.   It was 100% not aimed at you
		
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I knew it wasn't t at me L, I was just a bit speechless that anyone would think that volunteers don't work for organisations. We may not get paid by them, but we work all right 

Thanks for all the input, folks, I feel happy now to have them done by when they weigh 2 kilos because I'm also certain that by the time they add that weight they will be well over four months old. Snyph made an "interesting" call this morning, and I'll be monitoring that VERY closely   No under age sex in this house please!!


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## ILuvCowparsely (14 April 2013)

Yes its still work but someone from CPL saw my post and my area coordinator phoned me and told me not to say I was working only to say I am a volunteer.   I got my wrists slapped.


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## Jools2345 (14 April 2013)

Leviathan said:



			CP  that was not directed at you hun    I copied and pasted Jools thread,  and wrote to them not you 
 The CPL told me that people do not work for CPL they are volunteers  I just mentioned as  I read it that the other person worked for CPL I just pointed out we are volunteers not on the pay roll.   It was 100% not aimed at you
		
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i never said i worked for CPL though as my PM to you states


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## ILuvCowparsely (15 April 2013)

Jools2345 said:



			i never said i worked for CPL though as my PM to you states
		
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Yes you did  but i posted this before i opened my pm.


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## Jools2345 (15 April 2013)

Jools2345 said:



			where i work we neuter as young as 12wks for cpl,
		
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the above is what i said, i did not say i work FOR the CPL


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## Supertrooper (17 April 2013)

We'll castrate from 4 months and spay from 5 months. They have to be over 2kg though xx


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## cptrayes (17 April 2013)

Thanks.  Next week or the week after I think - they are packing on some growth now, getting bigger every day. Going wild and ripping the furniture to shreds too, but they aren't curtain climbers ....yet???


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## touchstone (17 April 2013)

cptrayes said:



			Thanks.  Next week or the week after I think - they are packing on some growth now, getting bigger every day. Going wild and ripping the furniture to shreds too, but they aren't curtain climbers ....yet???
		
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Give it time


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