# Black Caviar



## Spiritedly (23 June 2012)

Is she worthy of the hype?


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## Cazzah (23 June 2012)

Think her record speaks for itself - 21 starts, 21 wins. Also just watching her on TV she looks amazing! 

It will be a massive anti-climax if she doesn't win!!


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## Amymay (23 June 2012)

I expect so. Very impresive looking horse.


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## Spiritedly (23 June 2012)

She does look great. I hadn't heard of her till last week that's why I wondered what others thought.


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## Hedgewitch13 (23 June 2012)

Can't wait to see how she does. I hope she wins


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## PolarSkye (23 June 2012)

She's a big strong mare . . . very impressive to look at . . . hope she wins.

P


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## Cuppatea (23 June 2012)

she is a stunner to watch moving.Think i might cry if she does it!


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## Fools Motto (23 June 2012)

I'm watching, and I too, want her to win. Go BC! Lovely looking mare.


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## Hedgewitch13 (23 June 2012)

Oh I will definitely cry!


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## Spiritedly (23 June 2012)

I wonder if the queen will make an offer if she wins 

(when she wins  )


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## zaminda (23 June 2012)

She is unreal! Never looks to have come out of a canter either.


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## Amymay (23 June 2012)

I really, really hope she wins.


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## Miss L Toe (23 June 2012)

She must be huge as she is heavier than Denman who was 17 something, not many TBs who are oversize get through their career without soundness problems. Lets hope the stalls are big enough.
If I bet on this race it would be "without Black Caviar"


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## Spiritedly (23 June 2012)

I think they said she is 16.2.


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## Amymay (23 June 2012)

Very nerve backing...


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## Amymay (23 June 2012)

Yes, 16.2.


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## Fools Motto (23 June 2012)

I feel so nervous for her...


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## amage (23 June 2012)

Miss L Toe said:



			She must be huge as she is heavier than Denman who was 17 something, not many TBs who are oversize get through their career without soundness problems. Lets hope the stalls are big enough.
If I bet on this race it would be "without Black Caviar"
		
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She has had some injuries...chest muscle damage as a three year old stumbling after a start and a leg injury that year that ended her season early. They manage her incredibly well.


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## Elf On A Shelf (23 June 2012)

I may be going against the grain here but part of me really wants her to get beaten just to say "up yours" to the pompous owners!


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## misst (23 June 2012)

Wow that was close


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## Hedgewitch13 (23 June 2012)

I think she did it but not that impressive I'm afraid!!


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## HaylStorm (23 June 2012)

gosh, that was close!


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## Amymay (23 June 2012)

OMG!!!


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## amage (23 June 2012)

Hmmmm that was not impressive...


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## Fools Motto (23 June 2012)

Dim jockey!


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## Spiritedly (23 June 2012)

She didn't seem as impressive as I thought she would be.


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## _MizElz_ (23 June 2012)

She never really looked like she was pushed though? Almost like jock thought she had it sewn up - he was just sat quietly right to the end. I get the feeling that, had he realised how close the others were and ridden her out more, we may have seen a LOT more from her. She was barely cantering!


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## Elf On A Shelf (23 June 2012)

Well I think it's safe to say she won't be leaving Australia again  Next time she won't be so lucky to beat the Europeans! And what a complete moron that jockey is! Dropping your hands near home thinking your home and hosed in Britain when everyone is out to claim your scalp?! Tut tut! He deserved to be beaten for that!


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## Cuppatea (23 June 2012)

Luke Nolan was very very lucky to get awaywith that!


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## PolarSkye (23 June 2012)

Well, that was a bit of a letdown . . . she squeaked that . . . and I'm afraid it looked like jockey error to me.  

Is it me, or does she have a really strange action in trot?

P


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## _MizElz_ (23 June 2012)

She has the weirdest trot I have ever seen. Looked almost lame trotting back there!


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## Amymay (23 June 2012)

He just didn't ride her. I thought she was beaten. And now looks lame.


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## Hedgewitch13 (23 June 2012)

Yes I think he was arrogant enough to think no-one was near him! Silly man.

ETS Yes I noticed the trot before the race - it's very lumpy!


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## FrecklesMum (23 June 2012)

Another stride and Moonlight cloud would have beaten her....


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## _MizElz_ (23 June 2012)

amymay said:



			He just didn't ride her. I thought she was beaten. And now looks lame.
		
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Yeah I would say definitely in trot. Not so sure in walk - hard to tell. But she definitely didnt look right coming back.


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## milesjess (23 June 2012)

Agree she did look lame then?! Stunning mare though, owner looked livid at first that she'd nearly been caught.


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## Cazzah (23 June 2012)

Thank God she won otherwise I think that jockey would not have been welcome back in Australia! 

Is it just me or does she look a bit lame trotting in front of the stands? Hope not and it's just my imagination...


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## Bright_Spark (23 June 2012)

Closer than I thought it was going to be. 

I agree that jockey hardly seemed to push her though.


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## Elf On A Shelf (23 June 2012)

She is now lame ... Ooops!


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## _MizElz_ (23 June 2012)

Looks lame in front in walk now!


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## be positive (23 June 2012)

If she had not won the jockey may have had to stay here, Australia may have refused to let  him back in. Lovely mare she deserved a better ride than that.


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## paulineh (23 June 2012)

Not impressed at all. Our own Frankel is better that is why he is higher rated.

Very much a jockey error that she did not win better. Everyone thought that she was the one.


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## zaminda (23 June 2012)

Bad ride from the jockey, and yes she does now look lame. She would never have met such soft ground before either.


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## Elf On A Shelf (23 June 2012)

That jockey needs a kick up the arse big style! Cocky arrogant knobs the lot of them!


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## MurphysMinder (23 June 2012)

Not nearly as impressive as Frankel imo.  Before the race I commented she trotted just like our pony, who has the weirdest action in front, afterwards in front of the stands I thought she looked lame.


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## _MizElz_ (23 June 2012)

Her connections are arrogant *****es arent they!!


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## Bright_Spark (23 June 2012)

Least happiest owner/ trainer of the winner I think I've seen.


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## amage (23 June 2012)

Yikes doesn't look at all sound walking off


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## Elf On A Shelf (23 June 2012)

_MizElz_ said:



			Her connections are arrogant *****es arent they!!
		
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That's why I wanted her to be beaten! Not for the mare but for the connections!


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## Spiritedly (23 June 2012)

Think the trainer may be having strong words with jockey after that race!  She certainly looks like she might be lame, even in the enclosure she doesn't look right to me.


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## Fools Motto (23 June 2012)

True jockey error... bet he didn't think any horse would come on his near side as they were drawn the closest..


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## amage (23 June 2012)

Ok what planet is Luke Nolen on...at no stage did she look superior...I do agree with Peter Moody though "you only gotta win by a quarter of an inch"


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## Fools Motto (23 June 2012)

Least he admits it...
In a way, it makes the mare better.. she can put up with a dim jockey!


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## Hedgewitch13 (23 June 2012)

I don't think he could do anything else but admit it. I bet he still gets a *******ing though lol


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## deicinmerlyn (23 June 2012)

Fantastic mare - 22 wins in a row and after travelling half way around the world.


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## Elf On A Shelf (23 June 2012)

I hope he gets the boot to be honest! That was a truly shocking ride! Too cocky, not really strong enough - all credit to the mare - she got him out of deep, deep doo doo!


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## HollyWoozle (23 June 2012)

I noticed her odd trot before the race and thought it looked strange... then I definitely thought she looked lame afterwards but wondered if it was just her odd gait making it look like that. Didn't think she looked right in the ring either but I'm not good on these things. Didn't like them dragging her away from the water when she tried to have a second drink!

ETA: I understand why they didn't let her drink too much now.


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## Amymay (23 June 2012)

All the money it costs to bring her over, is the win lucrative enough?


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## teapot (23 June 2012)

Jockey does look a bit sheepish now though.

Typical Aussies though - cocky as anything. Very very lucky and I can't imagine there are many courses in Australia that rival the likes of Ascot...


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## Hollywood (23 June 2012)

Those who have said it wasn't an impressive win need to realise she has travelled half way round the world - she has just raced with the cream of her class and won and has won inspite of jockey error - she doesnt look lame she's just had a race on stiffer ground than she's used to. No matter what anyone thinks of connections she is an awesome filly - credit where credit is due.


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## siennamiller (23 June 2012)

Don't forget though, she would never have run on ground or at a testing course like this before. That would have made some difference. I also don't think the jock did enough (never mind dropping his hands) he didn't really push her as hard as he could have done imo


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## skint1 (23 June 2012)

I thought Black Caviar had a funny way of going at the walk/trot but I am not knowledgeable either, she's a very bum high isn't she, but what a motor she has!  I am sorry for Luke Nolan, it could happen to anyone, you can just feel his self loathing, poor guy.


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## Spiritedly (23 June 2012)

amymay said:



			All the money it costs to bring her over, is the win lucrative enough?
		
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I think it's more the money they will get if she wins certain races in certain countries, that's why she's off to Hong Kong next.


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## Amymay (23 June 2012)

Holly, you can't let them guzzle water after a run. They could colic. Small sips until they've cooled down.


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## Cuppatea (23 June 2012)

HollyWoozle said:



			Didn't like them dragging her away from the water when she tried to have a second drink!
		
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its not safe toallowthem to drink too much too soon after a race. Can cause serious problems. Little sios till theyve cooled down enough.


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## HollyWoozle (23 June 2012)

Oh yes, she's certainly very talented! I rarely watch racing but I was curious to see her. Although I thought she looked lame, I just assumed it was her particular action (plus I don't spend a lot of time looking at race horses) and I presume if they had been concerned they would've done something or said something about it. 

Congrats to the French horse in second as well. 

ETA: Didn't think about the risk of colic etc. associated with guzzling. Thanks for the info, learn something new everyday!


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## Elf On A Shelf (23 June 2012)

HollyWoozle said:



			Didn't like them dragging her away from the water when she tried to have a second drink!
		
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You kind of have to regulate water intake straight after races as if you let them have too much too quickly then they can colic. She will be allowed as much water as she wants but in small amounts so it goes down and settles.


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## Buds_mum (23 June 2012)

Maybe the jockey didn't push her as she didn't feel 100%? 

If he'd pushed her harder and, IF, she is now lame ya'll would be saying a lot worse about the jockey.

Just being a devils advocate


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## Alec Swan (23 June 2012)

PolarSkye said:



			Well, that was a bit of a letdown . . . she squeaked that . . . and I'm afraid it looked like jockey error to me.  

Is it me, or does she have a really strange action in trot?

P
		
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To his credit,  Nolan put his hands up and admitted that the mistake was his.  Had he not been so humble,  I'd have put it down to arrogance.  Another three strides and BC would have been 2nd.  I suspect that the jockey has learnt a lesson.

The mare isn't sound,  and she looks to me,  to be beyond exhaustion.  A long flight,  a strange climate,  a new yard,  they're all things that perhaps have knocked the poor girl about.

It isn't just you,  and you're right,  she almost paces!!  She is a strange creature,  remarkable though,  for all that.

Alec.


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## Fanatical (23 June 2012)

What an amazing mare. So unfortunate that she wasn't ridden out properly at the finish but I think the jockey will regret that for a long time.

I just hope that wasn't the horse's last race as she definitely looked lame trotting up and down the stand afterwards. She most probably has never had to deal with ground like that before and that's possibly asking for a tendon injury, especially when maybe a little fatigued after the travelling. Lets hope she's ok - I'm sure she will be well looked after.


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## HashRouge (23 June 2012)

Bright_Spark said:



			Least happiest owner/ trainer of the winner I think I've seen.
		
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That's what I thought lol! I think they wanted her to do a Frankel (as it will now be known for ever after ) and prove the doubters wrong once and for all.
I think she is a beautiful horse and there is no doubt that she's an absolute quality mare, but she didn't look unbeatable in that race. Of course, there was jockey error involved, but at least this shows that there might be a way past Black Caviar, which is reassuring for anyone considering racing their horse against her!
Will we ever see Frankel v Black Caviar, does anyone think? I have a vague idea they race over different distances but I'll be honest I'm not sure what these distances are or who races over a longer distance.


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## Miss L Toe (23 June 2012)

Weep, TV remote thingy is broken, but I had a few pence on Restiadargent  E/W @ 66/1, a result........


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## TelH (23 June 2012)

Hardly a Frankel style demolition job but she crossed the line in front so mission accomplished. And fair play to them for even bringing her to the UK in the first place


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## amage (23 June 2012)

Hollywood said:



			Those who have said it wasn't an impressive win need to realise she has travelled half way round the world - she has just raced with the cream of her class and won and has won inspite of jockey error - she doesnt look lame she's just had a race on stiffer ground than she's used to. No matter what anyone thinks of connections she is an awesome filly - credit where credit is due.
		
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Well she raced against horses lower rated than Frankel...they Aussies claim her to be better than him. Based in today's running she isn't. Yes she still won, yes she travelled from Australia but but equally UK & Irish horses travel all over the world racing too and win as well, she is not the only horse to do that bit. And she IS lame....very clearly could be seen to be lame. Full credit she did win...Up to now her tightest winning margin was three quarters of a length and that was back in 09. Since then it has been at least a length and a quarter and it was plainly visible on the trainers face that at first he thought he had been beaten. Lady luck was very much on their side, a split second more before luke rode again and she'd have been third.


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## teapot (23 June 2012)

HashRouge said:



			Will we ever see Frankel v Black Caviar, does anyone think? I have a vague idea they race over different distances but I'll be honest I'm not sure what these distances are or who races over a longer distance.
		
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Goodwood had offered to whack up the prize fund to a million pounds for the Sussex Stakes at the Glorious meeting to tempt her owners to run against Frankel but they refused very quickly.

As an aside, if she found Ascot difficult, Goodwood would do her NO good in terms of track/course


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## Luci07 (23 June 2012)

Um....less generalised Aussie bashing please! Uneccesary and smacks of sour grapes.  So...connections are smug...so what?!!  Please ditch the "our Frankel" and " their" BC. This is racing history and we are lucky to be able to watch some truly great racehorses, in our time. That has been lacking for a long time...


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## TelH (23 June 2012)

HashRouge said:



			Will we ever see Frankel v Black Caviar, does anyone think? I have a vague idea they race over different distances but I'll be honest I'm not sure what these distances are or who races over a longer distance.
		
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Short answer- no. BC is a sprinter and Frankel is a miler who is probably going to step up to 10f.


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## SuperCoblet (23 June 2012)

I didn't watch the race, but sounds like she did cr@p!
Not worth the 30 hour flight she had to make to get here, for a 60 second run, then 30 more hours to get home


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## amage (23 June 2012)

Buds_mum said:



			Maybe the jockey didn't push her as she didn't feel 100%? 

If he'd pushed her harder and, IF, she is now lame ya'll would be saying a lot worse about the jockey.

Just being a devils advocate 

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Hardly....if that was the case then he wouldn't have paraded her up and down in front of the stand!


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## Elf On A Shelf (23 June 2012)

Fair play to the mare. She is the true star. As much as the connections are annoying that mare is what it was all about and she did her job as best she could with what she was given to work with. After everything that she has gone through in the last few weeks - I take my hat off to her. Never before, and I doubt ever again will we see such a truly fantastic mare with such a big heart.

I would be surprised if she now did go on to Hong Kong as connections looked scared of how close everything got at the end. Even if they put it down to the travel et al she would be the same in Hong Kong.


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## Miss L Toe (23 June 2012)

Luci07 said:



			Um....less generalised Aussie bashing please! Uneccesary and smacks of sour grapes.  So...connections are smug...so what?!!  Please ditch the "our Frankel" and " their" BC. This is racing history and we are lucky to be able to watch some truly great racehorses, in our time. That has been lacking for a long time...
		
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O well it is all "in the best possible taste", to be honest 10,000 Aussies went to Ascot Races, must be a real tourist event. A day to remember, for quite a few wrong reasons!!!!
Sprint  horse are not middle distance runners, they can't run at a top level in the same race.


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## teapot (23 June 2012)

BBC have just said she's going straight back to Oz


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## amage (23 June 2012)

Just been announced she may be retired as is wrong


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## MurphysMinder (23 June 2012)

They're now saying she wasn't right and may retire


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## Bright_Spark (23 June 2012)

HashRouge said:



			Will we ever see Frankel v Black Caviar, does anyone think? I have a vague idea they race over different distances but I'll be honest I'm not sure what these distances are or who races over a longer distance.
		
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I was wondering that myself. I'm sure Willie Carson said that wouldn't happen, but didn't explain why.

I hope Black Caviar is okay. Mind you, just heard that she wasn't 100% and might be retired.

Wonder if that win was a bit too close for comfort (cynical, me?)


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## Amymay (23 June 2012)

Trainer has just conformed mate not right, and that may have been her last race.


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## Clodagh (23 June 2012)

Well it was disapointing not to see her do a Frankel but I'm glad she won. I have an Aussie passport too so not much racism please! Aussies are loud, its what they do. Good on them for bringing her over, jockey was a numpty but looked like he felt awful for it.
I think she does what we can a 'tranter' when they want to break into canter at trot and sort of juggle along.


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## Amymay (23 June 2012)

Trainer has just conformed mare not right, and that may have been her last race.


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## Elf On A Shelf (23 June 2012)

Bright_Spark said:



			I hope Black Caviar is okay. Mind you, just heard that she wasn't 100% and might be retired.

Wonder if that win was a bit too close for comfort (cynical, me?)
		
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I'm with you on that


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## Madam Min (23 June 2012)

PolarSkye said:



			Is it me, or does she have a really strange action in trot? P
		
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I said the very same to my OH!


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## Amymay (23 June 2012)

One injury too far perhaps.


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## mle22 (23 June 2012)

Well I felt priveledged to have watched such an awesome horse and who could blame her connections for being proud of her. Just glad the jockey didn't lose it for her with his over confidence


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## Fools Motto (23 June 2012)

Even if she was to race again, she would never race against Frankel. She is the 100m sprinter type, he is the 400m middle distance type... different races, so never should meet.

I hope she retires happy and enjoys her paddock/mummy time for the years to come.


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## Miss L Toe (23 June 2012)

Is she lame now, ie after the race, and is that why jock stopped riding?


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## stormox (23 June 2012)

Its better to have tried and lost than not to try. And she didn't lose anyway. Fair play to her connections who brought her over, surely most people at Ascot would agree it was a privilege just to see her.


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## sizz (23 June 2012)

Didn't see her move apart from in walk before the race, but lame right hind which could be the reason she looked lame infront as well on her right fore.  I agree about the jockey not riding a finish, very dissapointing, but lovely looking mare.


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## siennamiller (23 June 2012)

Racing post say that she has been given the all clear by the vet


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## npage123 (23 June 2012)

Why are so many of you describing the owners/connections as arrogant, pompous etc.?  Do you know them well enough to say that?  To me personally, the trainer simply came across as focused on the job at hand (rather than playing to the media).

Regarding the jockey - yes, with hindsight comes clarity, but it seems as if he's the first one who would admit he could have done it better.


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## MrsElle (23 June 2012)

Out of the mouth of babes... (well 55 year old doesn't know one end of a horse from another OH!) 'What's wrong with it, it moves funny' 

I must admit I had to agree.

We have had some Aussie friends staying with us and they have been raving about Black Caviar so we tuned in to see what all the fuss was about.  Lovely horse, but I was expecting more from her after all the hype.


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## Nollaig Shona (23 June 2012)

EKW said:



			I hope he gets the boot to be honest! That was a truly shocking ride! Too cocky, not really strong enough - all credit to the mare - she got him out of deep, deep doo doo!
		
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Agreed!  All credit to the mare, the jockey didn't look like he was trying at all!




Buds_mum said:



			Maybe the jockey didn't push her as she didn't feel 100%?
		
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Weren't they saying, prior to the race, that she was in the best shape she'd ever been in before?



If she's not right, and had a rough trip over here, and all the other "excuses", then fair play to her for getting up on the line to win.  Personally I thought she looked very ordinary in running, and at the 3f pole I thought she was going to be well beaten!


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## angrovestud (23 June 2012)

I think its terribly sad to see so much ridicule of a horse that has made history, As an racehorse owner you can not possibly know all the people who have dug deep perhaps, to deliver a spectical for a global audience they have come to GB to see if she could win she has done that what is wrong with some of you! can we not celebrate success in this country instead of sitting in our armchairs and knocking it !


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## Zebedee (23 June 2012)

npage123 said:



			Why are so many of you describing the owners/connections as arrogant, pompous etc.?  Do you know them well enough to say that?  To me personally, the trainer simply came across as focused on the job at hand (rather than playing to the media).

Regarding the jockey - yes, with hindsight comes clarity, but it seems as if he's the first one who would admit he could have done it better.
		
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You beat me to it. She's owned by a syndicate of friends who have all travelled over here to see her race. I too think it was a brave move on their part, & she proved her class 1000 times over the way she rallied again at the last minute when LN realised that he wasn't on his own at the front.


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## Honeylight (23 June 2012)

_MizElz_ said:



			She has the weirdest trot I have ever seen. Looked almost lame trotting back there! 

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She is very coarse & a bad mover. A shame she couldn't have won impressively.
It will be interesting to see what she produces at stud; big, masculine mares do not always produce good runners. Park Top a case in point.


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## skint1 (23 June 2012)

I don't think anyone is knocking her win at all, I certainly wasn't, nor was I knocking the rider. I feel sorry for him, he looked gutted for someone who'd just won a major race and will be blamed I am sure that it was not a more spectacular win, just discussing the particulars, as horse people are wont to do.


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## Amymay (23 June 2012)

I actually think she's rather beautiful. And up close and personal I expect she's spectacular.


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## skint1 (23 June 2012)

She is, I love a nice TB mare, but she does move oddly at the walk/trot.  My favourite of recent "super" horses has been Zenyatta, to me she is everything a Tb mare should be in my most humble opinion.


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## Equilibrium Ireland (23 June 2012)

Amazing the reactions on here. Wow, just wow. Now everyone's a racing expert. One of the few boards I've been to that is so anti racing and now I see why. 

While I never compare horses, why don't the connections of Frankel take him to OZ and race at her distance on a rock hard track. I know how good Frankel is, he's beyond good. I've galloped BC and classic winners. But only one brought their game 10k miles to very different conditions than used to. Just remember that. 

I mean if this forum is any indication of how the BC camp has been treated no wonder they want the hell out. Shame really. 

Terri


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## bonny (23 June 2012)

Equilibrium Ireland said:



			Amazing the reactions on here. Wow, just wow. Now everyone's a racing expert. One of the few boards I've been to that is so anti racing and now I see why. 

While I never compare horses, why don't the connections of Frankel take him to OZ and race at her distance on a rock hard track. I know how good Frankel is, he's beyond good. I've galloped BC and classic winners. But only one brought their game 10k miles to very different conditions than used to. Just remember that. 

I mean if this forum is any indication of how the BC camp has been treated no wonder they want the hell out. Shame really. 

Terri
		
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Are you saying you've ridden Black Caviar ????


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## PinkCob (23 June 2012)

Imo, Black Caviar is one of the best racehorses i've ever seen. I'm absolutely fascinated by her. Champion.
'The wonder from down under'


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## Equilibrium Ireland (23 June 2012)

No, that should be Breeders Cup winning horses. Used to the BC for both!


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## jaysh (23 June 2012)

Just reading some of the replies on here, I just shake my head in wonder at some of you. 
Quite agree Equilibrium Ireland with your post.  
The mare won her 22nd consecutive race, it doesn't matter that it wasn't "impressive" as some of you said. She WON. It matters not that it was by a bare inch or even half a friggin mile. She remains unbeaten. No wonder this forum drives me mad,  a few decent people & a bunch of sanctimonious a&seholes.


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## Ibblebibble (23 June 2012)

How can you say she is not stunning 
I think it's quite sad that people are trying to dampen her victory, she won her race, might not have been the spectacular finish that some were expecting but after 30+ hours on a plane i think she did just fine


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## PolarSkye (23 June 2012)

jaysh said:



			Just reading some of the replies on here, I just shake my head in wonder at some of you. 
Quite agree Equilibrium Ireland with your post.  
The mare won her 22nd consecutive race, it doesn't matter that it wasn't "impressive" as some of you said. She WON. It matters not that it was by a bare inch or even half a friggin mile. She remains unbeaten. No wonder this forum drives me mad,  a few decent people & a bunch of sanctimonious a&seholes.
		
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Yes, she won . . . but given all the hype (and there was rather a lot of it), I sort of expected her to blow the others away - and she didn't. . . I did state that her (in my eyes) rather lacklustre performance was possibly down to rider error, but even the jock said that he felt her power go towards the end of the race.  I don't believe anyone said that she didn't deserve to win . . . or that it wasn't a huge achievement to win 22 consecutive races . . . quite a few of us are just a little bewildered by a) her unique action in trot; and b) her demeanor both in the paddock and during the race . . . she never really "sparkled."

If voicing my reasonable, polite, rational opinion on something I have just watched makes me a sanctimonious bottomhole then I give up really . . . 

P


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## Hackie (23 June 2012)

Go Nelly!  She's done Australia (and her connections) proud.  From what I can tell half the country stayed up to watch her win, but regardless her record was impressive prior to this.

Maybe it was a tight win, but it was a win nonetheless!

ETA, not to rub it into Luke as she still won, but there was a bit or rider error behind the narrow margin, you can't really use that to detract against a very good mare...


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## typekitty (23 June 2012)

Ibblebibble said:









How can you say she is not stunning 
I think it's quite sad that people are trying to dampen her victory, she won her race, might not have been the spectacular finish that some were expecting but after 30+ hours on a plane i think she did just fine

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The trainer said that she wasn't Frankel, that he only needed half an inch. A very wise move, and she delivered. She's a good looking horse. Hype or not, yes, she did win, and there was never any more expected. It was only every about getting over the line first, with or without sparkle.

ETA: By 'he', I mean Moody. Obviously, BC is a mare. Also, the comment about Frankel was made well before the race.


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## Girlracer (23 June 2012)

Sad to hear that she didn't feel herself today and she may be retired. Very talented, powerful horse. 

A win is a win.


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## teapot (23 June 2012)

PolarSkye said:



			Yes, she won . . . but given all the hype (and there was rather a lot of it), I sort of expected her to blow the others away - and she didn't. . . I did state that her (in my eyes) rather lacklustre performance was possibly down to rider error, but even the jock said that he felt her power go towards the end of the race.  I don't believe anyone said that she didn't deserve to win . . . or that it wasn't a huge achievement to win 22 consecutive races . . . quite a few of us are just a little bewildered by a) her unique action in trot; and b) her demeanor both in the paddock and during the race . . . she never really "sparkled."

If voicing my reasonable, polite, rational opinion on something I have just watched makes me a sanctimonious bottomhole then I give up really . . . 

P
		
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Apparently she's quite lacklustre and sleepy in the pre-race paddocks anyway. That said I still agree with you  Plus it was a LOT of hype followed up by owners refusing to give interviews to people before knowing their FULL credentials (did anyone else hear Clare Balding talking about that?), you're at Royal Ascot of all places! Plus comments of 'we're not going to let the Poms beat us/put us down/she's going to show them' and yet they were lucky to win 

Think there'd be more 'wahey she won, awesome horse etc etc' if they'd come over on the quiet, no hype, no pressure and not made such a huge deal. Look at how Henry Cecil deals with Frankel in comparison...

Just hope she's not done herself any damage, and either continues her good run or is retired before it all goes wrong.


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## Spiritedly (23 June 2012)

PolarSkye said:



			Yes, she won . . . but given all the hype (and there was rather a lot of it), I sort of expected her to blow the others away - and she didn't. . . I did state that her (in my eyes) rather lacklustre performance was possibly down to rider error, but even the jock said that he felt her power go towards the end of the race.  I don't believe anyone said that she didn't deserve to win . . . or that it wasn't a huge achievement to win 22 consecutive races . . . quite a few of us are just a little bewildered by a) her unique action in trot; and b) her demeanor both in the paddock and during the race . . . she never really "sparkled."

If voicing my reasonable, polite, rational opinion on something I have just watched makes me a sanctimonious bottomhole then I give up really . . . 

P
		
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I agree, I started this thread as all the comments I've seen about her at Ascot this week have likened her to Frankel and maybe a lot of us were expecting, rightly or wrongly, a Frankel type finish. She is an amazing mare to win the way she has and she deserved her win today. Maybe I've read the posts on here differently to some because I haven't seen anyone saying she didn't deserve to win and that she's not a great horse, but I have seen a few people expressing concern as she looked lame.


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## TrasaM (23 June 2012)

What a magnificent horse. Like lots of the other posts on here I felt slightly disappointed with the finish but a win is a win is a win and to me 22 races and 22 victories looks like very good statistics. Also the ground was not what she is used to. Anyone who doubts thar this matters should try running across a muddy field or through soft sand and see what a difference it makes. I think it's lovely how famous she's become across all classes in Oz. 
Whatever happens next she'll been assured a place amongst the greats of horse racing.  Thank you Nelly and long may you run.


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## Amymay (23 June 2012)

There's been no anti racing sentiment in this post equilibrium....


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## onlytheponely (23 June 2012)

I, for one, think they were very brave to bring her over, regardless of whether I found her connections brash or ebullient. Much more of a reputation at risk when she's already won so many races. 
And just for the record, the two french trained horses that chased her down are very good horses. Moonlight Cloud has won Group 1 and G3 races and Restiadargent G2 and G3's. They are well respected over here and gave her a decent race. 
I do hope that she recovers well from this and I really can't understand why people have to be so negative about her. For a horse to go out and win as many races as she has without getting sour is an unbelievable achievement in itself. I have followed her racing career and I think she has earned herself a very deserved place in racing history. I just hope that they don't run her into the ground, she doesn't deserve that.


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## Amymay (23 June 2012)

There's been no anti racing sentiment in this post equilibrium....

And of course everyone's an expert. How do you think the sport is funded......?  ;0)


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## Rollin (23 June 2012)

Not read the thread but love her.

Her trainer said she is not quick but she covers the ground.  She did not look to me as if it was any effort for her - smart lady to conserve her energy.

What bone, what backside, what depth of girth.

My sort of horse.


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## Honeylight (23 June 2012)

I wasn't really putting her down; she is a big coarse sprinter with a sprinter's typical build. I have just seen a posed picture of her & she does look pretty stunning. Sorry Nelly!
Maybe she was off colour today, as on the TV her coat looked a bit dull, but then I suppose swapping hemispheres isn't that good for a lady's looks!

It will be interesting to see what she produces as a brood mare, her pedigree is interesting as she is inbred to Northern Dancer & Silly Season. & Wilkes. I remember one of her ancestors Lunchtime winning the Dewhurst Stakes, he didn't train on but he was a stunning looking horse. 

I love racing, but she was too hyped before the race; glad she managed to get her nose in front, she seems a very brave mare.


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## paulineh (23 June 2012)

She may have won with a short head but I felt that the jockey dropped his hands too early then realised that there was someone coming up beside him. I thought that he should have ridden to the end. If she had been beaten by the same margen the she won what would the trainer have said.

I have seen jockeys in front of the stewards for not riding out a finish.


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## onlytheponely (23 June 2012)

paulineh said:



			She may have won with a short head but I felt that the jockey dropped his hands too early then realised that there was someone coming up beside him. I thought that he should have ridden to the end. If she had been beaten by the same margen the she won what would the trainer have said.

I have seen jockeys in front of the stewards for not riding out a finish.
		
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I think he had such faith in this mare that he didn't expect anyone to be 'there'   No excuse for not riding to the line or checking his mirrors though.


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## Amymay (23 June 2012)

Does she have a 'typical' printers physique Honey?

At 16.2 and with such bone she'd be far from typical. Built more like an old fashioned chase surely?


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## Amymay (23 June 2012)

Sprinters.


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## mulledwhine (23 June 2012)

The jockey openly admitted that be made a mistake  thank fully his mistake was brought back 

Well done team


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## christine48 (23 June 2012)

Sounds like she injured herself during the race, maybe that's why the jockey didn't ride the finish. However we've seen a great mare win her 22 nd race after travelling half way round the world so credit where credit is due. Hopefully she'll retire to stud now.


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## PolarSkye (23 June 2012)

amymay said:



			Does she have a 'typical' printers physique Honey?

At 16.2 and with such bone she'd be far from typical. Built more like an old fashioned chase surely?
		
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I thought this . . . lots and lots of bone there . . . big, stonking mare.  I'm very curious to see what sort of babies she produces (and obviously who they breed her to).

There's no doubting the mare's ability . . . I hope she is alright after the race.  Winning every one of her starts - 22 of them - is a massive achievement . . . I just wish she'd won this one with more style.  

Did we clear up - is she sound or was she "not right" . . . ?

P


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## Flatout (23 June 2012)

I've just registered specifically to reply to this thread. To all those of you who tuned in today and have not seen her run before: that was not the real Black Caviar. Please do watch some of her previous runs on YouTube: you'll see a completely different horse, an effortless cruiser. Then you will understand the hype. I'm in my 50s (sigh) and have followed racing for almost 40 years, and she is the best sprinter I have seen in my lifetime. Agree she did look lame in front of the stands, though. Hoping she is okay!


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## onlytheponely (23 June 2012)

Apparently the on course vets gave her the all clear after the race. Doesn't mean something's not right though.


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## PolarSkye (23 June 2012)

Flatout said:



			I've just registered specifically to reply to this thread. To all those of you who tuned in today and have not seen her run before: that was not the real Black Caviar. Please do watch some of her previous runs on YouTube: you'll see a completely different horse, an effortless cruiser. Then you will understand the hype. I'm in my 50s (sigh) and have followed racing for almost 40 years, and she is the best sprinter I have seen in my lifetime. Agree she did look lame in front of the stands, though. Hoping she is okay!
		
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So, as someone who has watched the mare run before and saw a real difference today, what do you think made that difference?  The ground?  The journey over?  Unsoundness issues?

P


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## paulineh (23 June 2012)

If we really won't to compare them we have to start by looking at age. BC is 2 years older than Frank. Frankel has never been challenged winning all his races by at least 3 lengths ,most of the time a lot more. When I saw him win at Newbury he was hardly blowing.

BC was put under a lot of pressure today and wheather it was jockey error or not , one more stride and she would have been beaten and a couple more and she could have been 3rd.

It is best to retire at the top than being beaten


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## onlytheponely (23 June 2012)

Flatout, do you remember Silent Witness? Another wonderful sprinter


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## ester (23 June 2012)

I think there was an interesting point in the commentary while they were loading and discussing how the mare was so chilled.. comparing her to Frankel and suggesting they are like it because they have never really been super pushed and for them it is just like going for a canter. 

As such (although not having seen all her races) perhaps she has never really been in the position of having horses so close near the finish line and bearing down on her and that is a different situ to the ones she has been in before and put her off a bit? Just a pondering.


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## Flatout (23 June 2012)

PolarSkye said:



			So, as someone who has watched the mare run before and saw a real difference today, what do you think made that difference?  The ground?  The journey over?  Unsoundness issues?

P
		
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Well she seemed fine after the journey and watchers who saw her gallop the other day at Newmarket said she was working brilliantly. So I would say maybe the ground, bringing a latent unsoundness to the fore. But I don't know, I was pretty stunned by how flat she ran, except in the first two or three furlongs when she was coasting. Be interested to see what Moody says tomorrow...


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## cefyl (23 June 2012)

Veni, Vidi, Vinci.  SHE came, she saw, she conquered.  
We are fortunate to have seen this great mare in our lifetime.
Jockey fell asleep at the wheel but she made it.
By a nose, but she won, on an alien track topography, conditions, and she came from her winter to our summer - in chronobiological terms taking into account jet lag that was a huge lag in the time frame.
Enjoy the moment.
She finished the race in one piece, if they chose to leave after the race and retire her now so be it.  They own her, and pay her bills.
She is a GREAT MARE. Enjoy the moment.


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## Flatout (23 June 2012)

onlytheponely said:



			Flatout, do you remember Silent Witness? Another wonderful sprinter 

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Yes he was, although I never took to Rocket Man for some reason. Dayjur and Habibti my favourites, although that's going back some eons...


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## typekitty (23 June 2012)

cefyl said:



			Veni, Vidi, Vinci.  SHE came, she saw, she conquered.  
We are fortunate to have seen this great mare in our lifetime.
Jockey fell asleep at the wheel but she made it.
By a nose, but she won, on an alien track topography, conditions, and she came from her winter to our summer - in chronobiological terms taking into account jet lag that was a huge lag in the time frame.
Enjoy the moment.
She finished the race in one piece, if they chose to leave after the race and retire her now so be it.  They own her, and pay her bills.
She is a GREAT MARE. Enjoy the moment.
		
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Haha, worth pointing out that friends of mine in Melb are complaining about how 'cold' their winter has been, at 16 degrees.


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## cefyl (23 June 2012)

typekitty said:



			Haha, worth pointing out that friends of mine in Melb are complaining about how 'cold' their winter has been, at 16 degrees. 

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Well even more spectacular then


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## onlytheponely (23 June 2012)

I loved Habibti, she was stunning.


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## ldlp111 (23 June 2012)

Here you go all her previous wins http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUIWShSNTkE&feature=related


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## Flatout (23 June 2012)

This is her beating Hay List, the second-highest rated sprinter in the world (another Aussie...) Poor Hay List, he's seen her backside more times than Excelebration has seen Frankel's...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvYeDFR1SDg


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## Flatout (23 June 2012)

onlytheponely said:



			I loved Habibti, she was stunning.
		
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So pleased you remember her! Hardly anyone seems to now. At least they do remember Dayjur.


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## onlytheponely (23 June 2012)

Flatout said:



			So pleased you remember her! Hardly anyone seems to now. At least they do remember Dayjur.
		
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I was truly obsessed with racing through the 80's and early 90's. Think it might have been something to do with a certain Steve Cauthen


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## PolarSkye (23 June 2012)

onlytheponely said:



			I was truly obsessed with racing through the 80's and early 90's. Think it might have been something to do with a certain Steve Cauthen 

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Steve Cauthen . . . now there's a name from the past!  

P


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## Flatout (23 June 2012)

onlytheponely said:



			I was truly obsessed with racing through the 80's and early 90's. Think it might have been something to do with a certain Steve Cauthen 

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So you'll remember Slip Anchor leading from start to finish in the 85 Derby then, sailing down Tattenham hill 15 lengths clear (masterful Cauthen timing). Still one of the three most jawdropping individual flat performances I've ever seen, along with Frankel's Guineas and Arazi's Breeders Cup (the best of the lot). Sadly the only footage of Slip Anchor is in Spanish, for some reason!


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## Maesfen (23 June 2012)

I was really deflated after that race; I expected so much more from her and so disappointed with her jockey, that he didn't push her out to win in the style we all expected.
I did think she moved like a sewing machine as she trotted down to post and after the race but what a fantastic stride she had once cantering.


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## Flatout (23 June 2012)

ester said:



			I think there was an interesting point in the commentary while they were loading and discussing how the mare was so chilled.. comparing her to Frankel and suggesting they are like it because they have never really been super pushed and for them it is just like going for a canter. 

As such (although not having seen all her races) perhaps she has never really been in the position of having horses so close near the finish line and bearing down on her and that is a different situ to the ones she has been in before and put her off a bit? Just a pondering.
		
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You could well be right. She's certainly never been in a battle before, she probably didn't realise what was happening.


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## Crugeran Celt (23 June 2012)

_MizElz_ said:



			She has the weirdest trot I have ever seen. Looked almost lame trotting back there! 

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I thought that as she was walking around before the race and she had such little movement in her neck and head compared to the others (don't know much about racing). I didn't think she was a good looking mare either sorry, am I alone there?


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## cefyl (23 June 2012)

Maesfen said:



			I was really deflated after that race; I expected so much more from her and so disappointed with her jockey, that he didn't push her out to win in the style we all expected.
I did think she moved like a sewing machine as she trotted down to post and after the race but what a fantastic stride she had once cantering.
		
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Sorry it didn't live up to your huge expectations.  She came halfway around the world after never having run outside of OZ, excuse me if she didn't win by 10 lengths due to (possible) jock errror or anything else she has not been previously exposed to .


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## Amymay (23 June 2012)

Cefyl, is there a reason why someone can't post thier thoughts on here about a much hyped race, without some purile response from a fellow poster?


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## Crugeran Celt (23 June 2012)

cefyl said:



			Sorry it didn't live up to your huge expectations.  She came halfway around the world after never having run outside of OZ, excuse me if she didn't win by 10 lengths due to (possible) jock errror or anything else she has not been previously exposed to .
		
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I don't think anyone is critisizing the mare's ability but just that they expected her to win by a fair way. That didn't happen and she could so easily have lost that some people feel dissapointed by the performance. If most, like me are not avid race watchers but were drawn to watching this mare because of the hype it was a little dissapointing but that doesn't take away anything from the mare's outstanding history and the fact that she has travelled so far for this race. What she has achieved in her 22 races is outstanding and she will be remembered as an exceptional mare regardless of how she won today. Still think she was lame before race though.


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## Slinkyunicorn (23 June 2012)

According to posts from Ascot straight after the race she overeached which has caused her lameness but was checked by the vets and was ok - the stewards were also investigating the jockeys ride


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## kinnygirl1 (23 June 2012)

_MizElz_ said:



			She has the weirdest trot I have ever seen. Looked almost lame trotting back there! 

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Glad its not just me - I said to husband when she was trotting after the race that she looked lame! Her head was noticeably nodding.


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## PolarSkye (23 June 2012)

Slinkyunicorn said:



			According to posts from Ascot straight after the race she overeached which has caused her lameness but was checked by the vets and was ok - the stewards were also investigating the jockeys ride 

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Thanks for this Slinks . . . so did she overreach before or after the race b/c she looked funny/her trot looked odd/uneven on the way down to the start?  That said, it that may just be the way she goes.

The overreach thing is interesting, though, because Willy Carson commented on her overtrack several times in the paddock and pointed out that she was wearing O/R boots.  

P


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## cefyl (23 June 2012)

[



Crugeran Celt said:



			I don't think anyone is critisizing the mare's ability but just that they expected her to win by a fair way. .
		
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They are criticising her ability by the very obvious dissapointment she did not win by 10+ lengths.  

How do YOU define a fair way?  She has travelled halfway around the world, basics aside has no one here ever suffered jet lag which can go on for weeks ?! (JUST a note).  There is no criteria for it.  It 
is not the text of the postings but the negative intonation of some 
posters who just cannot appreciate the achievement.  Enjoy the 
moment. Or if you could have trained / ridden her / planned the trip

 better then quit griping and get out there and do it.  Everyone 
came back safe and sound ( as far as YOU know - the immediate 
connections know best and will make an announcement if she is 
not).

I am just saddened by how many are schocked / sad / surpsrised / that she did not win by blazing a firey trail of glory winning by 30 lengths without pausing for breath.  A " fair way" is in the eye of the beholder, to some it may be  a nose, to others 1 furlong - yes that is an extreme.  If she had won by 5 lengths then all we would hear is "poor quality field".


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## ester (23 June 2012)

I think it is fair to define 'a fair way' as more than a head!


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## Crugeran Celt (23 June 2012)

cefyl said:



			[



They are criticising her ability by the very obvious dissapointment she did not win by 10+ lengths.  

How do YOU define a fair way?  She has travelled halfway around the world, basics aside has no one here ever suffered jet lag which can go on for weeks ?! (JUST a note).  There is no criteria for it.  It is not the text of the postings but the negative intonation of some posters who just cannot appreciate the achievement.  Enjoy the moment. Or if you could have trained / ridden her / planned the trip better then quit griping and get out there and do it.  Everyone came back safe and sound ( as far as YOU know - the immediate connections know best and will make an announcement if she is not).
		
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You just don't get it, I am sure everyone was delighted that she won, me included but due to the hype expected a more spectacular finish. That doesn't take away her fantastic racing history and never will, just expected more due to the pre expectations of the whole racing world not just a few on this forum. We are not alone!


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## Brigadoon (23 June 2012)

Jockey error but at least she won. Racing is hard enough and both flat and jump racing needs heroes and heroines. It keeps the sport "up there" and people interested. 
My tuppence worth's is she is a cracking mare. Big, chunky and full of presence. Clearly well loved by all her connections and an international fan-club. Her future is safe. 
I have seen all her races and, sure, this performance was not in her usual league but as many are saying, she came over here, different routine etc etc and won. Nolen has realised his mistake and won't do that again. Ever. On any horse.
I hope she has a long and happy retirement after racing.
Even when a film about her life is made I am sure I will still have goosebumps when they re-enact her races!!
Cheerio Nelly..Racing has been all the richer for having you here!


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## bonny (23 June 2012)

cefyl said:



			[



They are criticising her ability by the very obvious dissapointment she did not win by 10+ lengths.  

How do YOU define a fair way?  She has travelled halfway around the world, basics aside has no one here ever suffered jet lag which can go on for weeks ?! (JUST a note).  There is no criteria for it.  It is not the text of the postings but the negative intonation of some posters who just cannot appreciate the achievement.  Enjoy the moment. Or if you could have trained / ridden her / planned the trip
 better then quit griping and get out there and do it.  Everyone 
came back safe and sound ( as far as YOU know - the immediate 
connections know best and will make an announcement if she is 
not).

I am just saddened by how many are schocked / sad / surpsrised / that she did not win by blazing a firey trail of glory winning by 30 lengths without pausing for breath.
		
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She's hardly the first or the last horse to travel round the world and win a race but she's the first that I can remember who came with such fanfare and hype....everyone was expecting great things and however you look at it we didn't get it. What we got was a fairly ordinary 6 furlong race where they all finished in a heap and another few strides the outcome could have been very different.


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## Mince Pie (23 June 2012)

I wonder if LN had actually ridden the race from start to finish whether the outcome would have been different. If he's used to being several lengths in front every time she runs then I could see why he didn't although it's no excuse. I was impressed by the mare, it hardly looked like she had broken out of a canter until the end where it got a bit scrappy.

I do think the mares connections are a bit full of themselves, I mean many horses are flown round the world but who else brings their own stalls handler?!


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## louisawilliams07 (23 June 2012)

I hate these forums its an excuse to bitch when you have ridden and trained winners comment


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## cefyl (23 June 2012)

Crugeran Celt said:



			You just don't get it, . We are not alone!
		
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oh I do " get it", some just expect machine like performance to transcend time zones / countries / tracks / biological atributes, not real life.  "We are not alone"?  Too much Star Trek?


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## ester (23 June 2012)

no but fantastic performances will always capture the imagination more than what was seen today. 

BBH.. I would.. if I was bothering the bring the mare I wouldn't snub and extra ticket for the stalls dude!


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## Mince Pie (23 June 2012)

louisawilliams07 said:



			I hate these forums its an excuse to bitch when you have ridden and trained winners comment
		
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Well off the top of my head I can think of 1 person on this thread who has had a big winner this year, and I'm not a regular poster!


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## JanetGeorge (23 June 2012)

Buds_mum said:



			Maybe the jockey didn't push her as she didn't feel 100%? 

If he'd pushed her harder and, IF, she is now lame ya'll would be saying a lot worse about the jockey.

Just being a devils advocate 

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Exactly!!   "Jockey Nolen eased up on Black Caviar in the closing stages of the race, and he blames himself for the ride.

"I underestimated the testing track of Ascot," he admitted. "She'd had enough and that big engine throttled right down. "

The trainer said: "if she's as tired and worn out when she gets home, she may have graced the track for a final time." 

I don't think either of those quotes suggests arrogance - the arrogance is displayed on this thread by some of you who know bu**er all about this mare, her career, the problems she's had and the way she's been nursed and carefully set up to win 22 races in a row!!!

I'm damn glad that the jockey didn't flog her to win by 10 lengths!! 

This mare had nothing to prove.  The cash attached to today's win was peanuts compared to some of the races she's won.  It was the jockey's first ride at Ascot, which presents its own challenges.


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## Crugeran Celt (23 June 2012)

cefyl said:



			oh I do " get it", some just expect machine like performance to transcend time zones / countries / tracks / biological atributes, not real life.  "We are not alone"?  Too much Star Trek?
		
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Unfortunately you obviously don't get it as I think even her trainer expected a more convincing finish. As the star treck comment, never seen it so I don't get that! Before you get back on your very high horse just like to say that I am delighted she won and will follow her career with much interest and really hope her winning streak continues ans she keeps well and safe.


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## HollyWoozle (23 June 2012)

Nobody is denying that Black Caviar travelled a long way to be here, was in a new territory with different ground, climate etc. And from what I can see, nobody is saying that the mare lacks talent or that she doesn't have an impressive race history. It's simply that there was a lot of hype and publicity surrounding her participation in the race (I hardly ever watch the racing and even I watched as I'd heard so much about her) and this led people like me to believe she was likely to win the race very easily. Yes, she won and has added yet another win to her track record, it just wasn't by the margin some of us (or me at least) were expecting. 

Of course it's not the mare's fault and I don't think she'll be too upset by what people are saying on a forum.  The trainer and staff involved with her certainly deserve to be proud, but they set themselves up for comments like those we're seeing here by seeming so confident that she would win it more easily than she did. But at the end of the day they have an undoubtedly wonderful mare who will go down in racing history, fair play to them. 

I for one just hope that Black Caviar is OK now and goes on to live out many happy years. 

ETA: there seem to be a few comments in this thread suggesting that those who don't follow racing avidly should avoid commenting because we don't know what we're talking about. I think if people only ever commented on things they consider themselves to be experienced in, we probably wouldn't have too much to talk about!


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## cefyl (23 June 2012)

JanetGeorge said:



			I don't think either of those quotes suggests arrogance - the arrogance is displayed on this thread by some of you who know bu**er all about this mare, her career, the problems she's had and the way she's been nursed and carefully set up to win 22 races in a row!!!

I'm damn glad that the jockey didn't flog her to win by 10 lengths!! 

This mare had nothing to prove.  The cash attached to today's win was peanuts compared to some of the races she's won.  It was the jockey's first ride at Ascot, which presents its own challenges.
		
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thank you


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## Alec Swan (23 June 2012)

onlytheponely said:



			I, for one, think they were very brave to bring her over, regardless of whether I found her connections brash or ebullient. 

..............
		
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If we wish to see Brash or Ebullient,  and we can add Vulgar,  then all we need to do is watch just about any of our Festivals.  I thought that the filly's connections were well mannered,  courteous and contained.  

Sour grapes,  anyone? 



paulineh said:



			She may have won with a short head but I felt that the jockey dropped his hands too early then realised that there was someone coming up beside him. 

.......
		
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Exactly as her jockey stated.  Despite that,  the wonderful horse,  wasn't herself,  and the ground would have been new to her,  despite her time here,  on the gallops.  A different horse to Frankel,  but in her own way,  his equal.

Alec.

Ets,  Well said,  Mrs. George. a.


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## bonny (23 June 2012)

HollyWoozle said:



			Nobody is denying that Black Caviar travelled a long way to be here, was in a new territory with different ground, climate etc. And from what I can see, nobody is saying that the mare lacks talent or that she doesn't have an impressive race history. It's simply that there was a lot of hype and publicity surrounding her participation in the race (I hardly ever watch the racing and even I watched as I'd heard so much about her) and this led people like me to believe she was likely to win the race very easily. Yes, she won and has added yet another win to her track record, it just wasn't by the margin some of us (or me at least) were expecting. 

Of course it's not the mare's fault and I don't think she'll be too upset by what people are saying on a forum.  The trainer and staff involved with her certainly deserve to be proud, but they set themselves up for comments like those we're seeing here by seeming so confident that she would win it more easily than she did. But at the end of the day they have an undoubtedly wonderful mare who will go down in racing history, fair play to them. 

I for one just hope that Black Caviar is OK now and goes on to live out many happy years. 

Click to expand...

well said ....I agree with everything you've said.
she wasn't the only horse either at ascot who came from the other side of the world or even the only one who came a long way and won !


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## Amymay (23 June 2012)

BBH, I think its fantastic that so much thought went in to her management. I don't think that's connections being full of themselves, just wanting to give their horse the best chance. She can be tricky to load, so no point travelling all that way if you can't get her in to the stalls.  And she's their superstar so no expense would have been spared.

There's only one thing that let that horse down - her jockey.


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## firm (23 June 2012)

JG - It was not the jockey's first ride at Ascot, to be completely accurate, as he had ridden  Medicean Man earlier in the week  into 4th place.


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## Crugeran Celt (23 June 2012)

HollyWoozle said:



			Nobody is denying that Black Caviar travelled a long way to be here, was in a new territory with different ground, climate etc. And from what I can see, nobody is saying that the mare lacks talent or that she doesn't have an impressive race history. It's simply that there was a lot of hype and publicity surrounding her participation in the race (I hardly ever watch the racing and even I watched as I'd heard so much about her) and this led people like me to believe she was likely to win the race very easily. Yes, she won and has added yet another win to her track record, it just wasn't by the margin some of us (or me at least) were expecting. 

Of course it's not the mare's fault and I don't think she'll be too upset by what people are saying on a forum.  The trainer and staff involved with her certainly deserve to be proud, but they set themselves up for comments like those we're seeing here by seeming so confident that she would win it more easily than she did. But at the end of the day they have an undoubtedly wonderful mare who will go down in racing history, fair play to them. 

I for one just hope that Black Caviar is OK now and goes on to live out many happy years. 

ETA: there seem to be a few comments in this thread suggesting that those who don't follow racing avidly should avoid commenting because we don't know what we're talking about. I think if people only ever commented on things they consider themselves to be experienced in, we probably wouldn't have too much to talk about!
		
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Perfectly put.


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## cefyl (23 June 2012)

Crugeran Celt said:



			Unfortunately you obviously don't get it as I think even her trainer expected a more convincing finish.
		
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Her trainer has never ever said or claimed to expect she would win, he is on record as being happy IF she won by a nose.  Unfortunately sport and outcome, contrary to whatever fairy tail one likes to live in, does not always conform to expectations, it's called horses and life in this case.  Sorry you are so let down Nelly did not run away and trounce the opposition by a mile.


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## firm (23 June 2012)

I am really pleased she won.

I think the arrogance comments may have stemmed from her trainer saying "It is strange that we have to travel three quarters across the world to race against inferior competition for inferior prize money" to prove his filly's worth and he also was interviewed saying he could not understand  Frankel's rating when he just beat the same old horses all the time.


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## Mince Pie (23 June 2012)

firm said:



			I am really pleased she won.

I think the arrogance comments may have stemmed from her trainer saying "It is strange that we have to travel three quarters across the world to race against inferior competition for inferior prize money" to prove his filly's worth and he also was interviewed saying he could not understand  Frankel's rating when he just beat the same old horses all the time.
		
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Thank you!


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## Crugeran Celt (23 June 2012)

cefyl said:



			Her trainer has never ever said or claimed to expect she would win, he is on record as being happy IF she won by a nose.  Unfortunately sport and outcome, contrary to whatever fairy tail one likes to live in, does not always conform to expectations, it's called horses and life in this case.  Sorry you are so let down Nelly did not run away and trounce the opposition by a mile.
		
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I am not dissapointed by her at all, very glad she won and that she is ok and going home with her track record intact and she is healthy and safe because that really is the main thing. You really have misunderstood me but I give up trying to explain but please believe I am as pleased as anyone that she won today I have been looking forward to her performance all week. Just like to say too that I am one of those ignorant people who knows nothing about racing and has never really followed it but she captured my attention this week and I will follow her career in the future surely that is a step forward for racing if more people take an interest in it? You could be right about the trainer not expecting more but have watched the coverage all this week and the BBC have definately suggested that she would win very comfortably.


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## onlytheponely (23 June 2012)

Alec Swan said:



			If we wish to see Brash or Ebullient,  and we can add Vulgar,  then all we need to do is watch just about any of our Festivals.  I thought that the filly's connections were well mannered,  courteous and contained.  

Sour grapes,  anyone? 


Alec.


Peter Moody, the trainer, hadn't exactly been polite about the race quality. He described Black Caviar's mission as ' racing against inferior opposition for inferior prize money' .  Just a little disrespectful to the other owners that have bothered to send their horses from abroad too.

Sorry firm cross posted ;-)
		
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## teapot (23 June 2012)

If that is the case regarding thinking it's an inferior race of money and competition quality, surely they could have aimed her at a better, richer race? 

Genuine question here


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## Maesfen (23 June 2012)

typekitty said:



			Haha, worth pointing out that friends of mine in Melb are complaining about how 'cold' their winter has been, at 16 degrees. 

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cefyl said:



			Well even more spectacular then 

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Actually, no because the temperatures are far more similar than they would have been normally; (I'm sure the grammar police will have a windfall with that one! )



cefyl said:



			Sorry it didn't live up to your huge expectations.  She came halfway around the world after never having run outside of OZ, excuse me if she didn't win by 10 lengths due to (possible) jock errror or anything else she has not been previously exposed to .
		
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I never mentioned ten lengths at all, someone else might have done but you have to admit that she was badly ridden in the last furlong, as the jockey admitted himself.  What I meant was with all the hype about her and how good her connections are, it was a pity he decided not to rub our noses in it and show us what both she and him are really capable of.  What happened though is opinions about him have nose-dived because he so very nearly cost her her amazing 100% record.  That was the disappointment for me, that he was too cocky by half.  It doesn't matter that they've never been challenged before, he's a professional jockey on the world stage and he dropped his hands; he should have known a lot better to have ridden her out to the best of her ability to after the post.  Then nobody would be having this conversation, we would have been lost in admiration for a fantastic mare who had shown us how it should have been done.  We all think she's still a fantastic mare but this race did not show her at her best due in main part, to her jockey.



Crugeran Celt said:



			I don't think anyone is critisizing the mare's ability but just that they expected her to win by a fair way. That didn't happen and she could so easily have lost that some people feel dissapointed by the performance. If most, like me are not avid race watchers but were drawn to watching this mare because of the hype it was a little dissapointing but that doesn't take away anything from the mare's outstanding history and the fact that she has travelled so far for this race. What she has achieved in her 22 races is outstanding and she will be remembered as an exceptional mare regardless of how she won today.
		
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Exactly, thanks for putting it better than I did.



cefyl said:



			[
They are criticising her ability by the very obvious dissapointment she did not win by 10+ lengths.  

I am just saddened by how many are schocked / sad / surpsrised / that she did not win by blazing a firey trail of glory winning by 30 lengths without pausing for breath.  A " fair way" is in the eye of the beholder, to some it may be  a nose, to others 1 furlong - yes that is an extreme.  If she had won by 5 lengths then all we would hear is "poor quality field".
		
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There is no way in heaven that she won by 'a fair way' as you call it.  Just a nose is nowhere near enough a 'fair way' unless you happen to be in a snail race.

For the record, I admire the mare,(who couldn't, she's a legend in her own life time) I admire her trainer and staff for the way she's been handled; I did not admire her jockey.  Can you imagine what his life could have been like if she had been beaten by his mistakes?


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## HollyWoozle (23 June 2012)

I had also read Moody's comment about 'inferior' competition and before the race today I'd watched this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exsl74qv2DY

At around 3.40 he goes on to say "facts and figures tell you there's not a horse out there can beat her". Comments like this made me feel sure that Black Caviar was set to win by a long margin, hence why I was somewhat surprised that it was so close. 

Just to be clear, I'm not criticising the trainer at all (er, he's obviously bloody good at his job and as mentioned already, I know nothing about racing!) but just that it was this sort of thing that set up my expectations of the race. I don't think the comment was necessarily cocky or anything, but it just made me think BC was sure to win.


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## HashRouge (23 June 2012)

Well I'll admit I felt a little disappointed after the race. Look at it this way - I've never seen Black Caviar run before, I didn't know much about her, but I had heard a LOT of hype over the past few weeks. And it really has been hype on an incredible scale, like nothing I've ever heard before, even when Kauto Star and Denman were at their peak. Now, I wasn't expecting her to do what Frankel did, but I was expecting a slightly more convincing victory. What made me feel disappointed wasn't Black Caviar (my sister and I were very impressed!) but the fact that we didn't get to see the best of her. As in, we didn't see the Black Caviar that had resulted in all that hype. Note I'm not saying the hype isn't justified, just that today's race didn't really explain in. I think rider error was involved and I also think the ground and the long distance she has come won't have helped. And I think that is how a lot of posters feel. Does that make sense? I did feel quite sorry for her trainer after the race because you could tell from his face he knew her victory would be overshadowed and the doubters would continue to doubt. I don't know if I'm explaining myself very well - I suppose what I'm trying to say is that you can't be surprised people are a bit underwhelmed if all they know of the mare is a) the insane hype that has surrounded her arrival in Britain and b) today's race. It won't just be people on HHO judging her on that basis, but probably the majority of people who saw today's race, horsey or non-horsey. In all honesty, a lot of the blame probably lies with the media 

Anyway, now I understand why Black Caviar and Frankel would have been highly unlikely to meet, even if she'd stayed in Britain, I'll turn my attention to the possibility of a Frankel/ Camelot show down . Henry Cecil has apparently raised the possibility of the two meeting, so I can only hope!


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## teapot (23 June 2012)

Ditto HashRouge - exactly how I feel and I've been following her for a few weeks, including reading the Aussie press coverage.

I'm still interested to know why they didn't aim her at a stiffer more valuable race though!!


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## Miss L Toe (23 June 2012)

teapot said:



			If that is the case regarding thinking it's an inferior race of money and competition quality, surely they could have aimed her at a better, richer race? 

Genuine question here 

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The prize money in the UK is probably not as good as in other countries, but the prestige is greater. Some good horses may not have been entered just because she was in it, I thought the field was a good size, and good quality, and lets face it she nearly got beat!
The other problem of travelling horses internationally, which is an accepted practice nowadays, is that of seasonality, it is difficult to train a filly when  her coat is not in prime condition.


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## Zebedee (23 June 2012)

At the end of the day (or the race as it happens) the mare won. The jockey committed a huge error of judgement, but she still won, probably for the first time in her life she had to fight at the finish............but she still won. In the post race interviews the jockey immediately held up hands & admitted his errors without trying to make any excuses. He deserves far more respect for that alone (never mind the win) than some people on here are showing.

Alec & Janet G - superb posts as always.


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## teapot (23 June 2012)

Well Goodwood did up their Sussex Stakes prize to a million but she'd never run over the Sussex Stakes distance (& Goodwood's a tough course) so it was in vein. 

There must be something richer & better at York or Newmarket surely?


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## ClassicG&T (23 June 2012)

I'm kinda on the fence here.
I'm glad she won, even though it was just by a nostril, and think she deserved it. I know she has traveled a lot and it's all new to her, but what about the other traveled horses? Wasn't there one that won the other day from Hong Kong? 
I think Moody said some things that came out wrong and IMO the field was pretty strong, she did well to win. 
If it is true that she may never race again, it seems a shame that she'll just be bred from for the rest of her life.
Beautiful mare


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## bonny (23 June 2012)

teapot said:



			Ditto HashRouge - exactly how I feel and I've been following her for a few weeks, including reading the Aussie press coverage.

I'm still interested to know why they didn't aim her at a stiffer more valuable race though!!
		
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It was one of a series of sprint races, held worldwide with a huge bonus to any horse than could win in 3 different countries. The plan was to win here, she's already won in Australia and then go to Hong Kong for her third. 
Connections also wanted to show us that they had the best sprinter in the world which sadly they failed to do ....


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## Lyle (23 June 2012)

Go Nelly! 22 straight wins in a row, still un-beaten, that is un-paralled. 

Having watched her race many times, I can say that she definitly wasn't the same horse that she normally is. She looked very flat and tired coming down to the post. I don't think the jockey gave he a completely supporting ride, which LN openly admitted. As none of us are privy to the real information, we can only speculate; maybe she was sore and LN stopped riding? Maybe she was genuinly tired?

I think the 'she didn't do a Frankel' comments are a bit silly, if you look back through her career, she has well and truly dominated some of the best sprinters in Aus, such as Hay List. Yes, she didn't show her true form at Ascot, for reasons we will probably never know. 

 I think if you were the owner/trainer of a horse that has had 21 unbeaten starts, you might come across as a little confident and enthusiastic about your chances of winning? 

And enough with the Aussie basing  We are not all arrogant, uncouth, banjo twangers. Some of the comments have been uncalled-for and rather vulgar. 

Just enjoy the moment and appreciate the mare for what she is, she just went down in history. You can't deny that she is talented and incredibly gutsy.


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## teapot (23 June 2012)

Thanks Bonny, I didn't know that


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## milesjess (24 June 2012)

Folks go on YouTube and watch her other races, she destroys every field and it shows why she is so impressive and world class. 

Admittedly she didn't seem herself today, whether it was the long journey, change in climate, bad jockey, ground... 

But I always got taught. Whether you win by an inch or a mile, winning is winning  

She's a cracking horse and will be lots of good press to racing in the future. I hope her lameness is nothing serious as she recovers well


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## Mariposa (24 June 2012)

Well done Nelly! I put money on her back in April and got evens, so the little mare made me £40, so supper was on her tonight! 

She is a great mare, and as Luke Nolen said, it was pilot error not horse error, she was just cruising. What a mare, what a fabulous mare


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## lisa77 (24 June 2012)

The only horse we have a real form comparison on  for "Black Caviar" is "Soul". "Soul" raced against her at Royal Ascot yesterday and also raced in many sprint races in Australia before he was sold overseas.
 In Australia "Soul" was not in the same league and Black Caviar. The horses that beat "Soul" in Australia ( like Star Witness), were given a galloping lesson by Black Caviar whenever they met. 

So since "Soul" ran to about 1 length of her yesterday, she was clearly below her best and I feel disappointed that everyone seems to be questioning how good she is. 

To me she is a true Aussie Champion and when the chips were down she dug deep, stuck her neck out and won. How could we want anything more.


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## brighteyes (24 June 2012)

Good mare. She won, in spite of everything. Now, take her back to Australia and look after her.


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## LadyRascasse (24 June 2012)

I personally don't think she was right today, whether it be lame or just not had enough time to acclimatise. Luke has never picked up the whip in her other 21 starts so when he started flapping it I knew she was in danger. Very lucky to win today. I hope the mare is ok and they make the right decision by the horse not the public. She owes them nothing.


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## Circe (24 June 2012)

Flatout said:



			This is her beating Hay List, the second-highest rated sprinter in the world (another Aussie...) Poor Hay List, he's seen her backside more times than Excelebration has seen Frankel's...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvYeDFR1SDg

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Thankyou for posting this link.
This shows Black Caviars class and talent. 
I'm slightly sad that she wasnt' able to have such a definative win at Ascot, for whatever reason, as I think that's what the public had been expecting.
At the end of the day though, a win is a win, and she is still unbeaten. She doesn't need to prove anything anymore.
Kx


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## ester (24 June 2012)

lisa77 said:



			The only horse we have a real form comparison on  for "Black Caviar" is "Soul". "Soul" raced against her at Royal Ascot yesterday and also raced in many sprint races in Australia before he was sold overseas.
 In Australia "Soul" was not in the same league and Black Caviar. The horses that beat "Soul" in Australia ( like Star Witness), were given a galloping lesson by Black Caviar whenever they met. 

So since "Soul" ran to about 1 length of her yesterday, she was clearly below her best and I feel disappointed that everyone seems to be questioning how good she is. 

To me she is a true Aussie Champion and when the chips were down she dug deep, stuck her neck out and won. How could we want anything more.
		
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That's really interesting thanks for posting, another pondering of mine was that if her 21 previous runs were in Aus that perhaps, for some reason, the current horses in Aus weren't as fast as the group over here atm. 

It's all very well she has destroyed every other field and that shows her class but it is difficult to really judge that without more knowledge of the quality of the field behind her (although as a group 1 race you'd expect  ). So a direct comparison is really interesting


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## merrymeasure (24 June 2012)

Well, even if the win wasn't what we were expecting, she still won. She's travelled a long way, it was sporting of her connections to have brought her here and I, for one, have enjoyed having her here on our shores, and I hope she has a safe journey home.


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## amage (24 June 2012)

lisa77 said:



			The only horse we have a real form comparison on  for "Black Caviar" is "Soul". "Soul" raced against her at Royal Ascot yesterday and also raced in many sprint races in Australia before he was sold overseas.
 In Australia "Soul" was not in the same league and Black Caviar. The horses that beat "Soul" in Australia ( like Star Witness), were given a galloping lesson by Black Caviar whenever they met. 

So since "Soul" ran to about 1 length of her yesterday, she was clearly below her best and I feel disappointed that everyone seems to be questioning how good she is. 

To me she is a true Aussie Champion and when the chips were down she dug deep, stuck her neck out and won. How could we want anything more.
		
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But ou have to bare in mind when Soul changed hands he also changed trainer so one could argue that under new training regime his true abilities were discovered. The mare won, she did good despite her jockeys screw up, she was not as impressive as she usually is, something went wrong, going by the disparaging remarks made by her connections prior to coming here they expected a much more definitive win. She looked very ready but I think they underestimated her competition however she won and well done that mare.


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## dunkley (24 June 2012)

I don't know a lot about racing, and have never heard of the mare before this week.  I don't know if 'our' horses were faster, but looking at past race statistics, BC actually ran the slowest race at that distance she ever has.  Knowing how tough long-haul travel is, I think she did damn well to even run, never mind win (in spite of, not because of, her jockey!).  I would still have been sleeping by the pool


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## caramel (24 June 2012)

quoted from Black Caviar's Facebook page::

Andrew Bensley from Sky Racing reports after speaking to Peter Moody:

"Black Caviar has suffered two muscle tears during the Diamond Jubilee Stakes. Not the 1st time. Will enter quarantine in 20 minutes where she can be treated for muscle tears. She does 14 days at quarantine in UK then flies. 

Peter Moody says she certainly would've felt the injuries in the race. Will return to Victoria in a fortnight before quarantine at Werribee. No decision on future until she gets home. Peter Moody said Black Caviar is battle weary. She went for a walk and a pick of grass after examination and she ate up everything."

hope BC gets better soon!


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## lisa77 (24 June 2012)

That is true Amage, Soul could have improved 10 lengths. But he was with a top trainer in Australia and for those of us who have seen her first 21 wins it was clear she was below her best.

Sadly Peter Moody has confirmed she was injured, hopefully not career ending, but would explain her disappointing run. 
.... disappointing considering how good we all know she is, most horses would doing well to win any G1, even by a nose!


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## lisa77 (24 June 2012)

Also I meant to add that some of the horses she was beating  in Australia included Ortensia, Star Witness,  Alverta and Scenic Blast who are all sprinters who have performed on the world stage. 
 In her last few starts some of the quality dropped away as the trainers realised they couldn't beat her, so set their top horses for other races.  The horses who ran against her were happy to be there racing for second. The exception being Haylist, who kept trying, all credit to his trainer for believing that one day he would prevail!


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## giveachance (24 June 2012)

I think its not unfair to say that yesterday was disappointing. That is not to take anything away from BC as she is obviously an incredible horse and to run and win the way she did when injured takes some doing. 

However it is still disappointing, she is undoubtedly the best sprinter in the world but yesterday she did not run like one. Her winning time was relatively ordinary being 1.14.1, and infact the race run after it was faster at 1.13.87 (whilst I know that race times don't always give a accurate representation as it often depends on where the pace comes from early on and if theres a good pace maker). How could people not be disappointed. 

We had one opportunity to see her run in this country and as a racing fan whose been excited about seeing her run since connections first mentioned it months ago it was just a shame to not see the horse that we all know she is (If that makes sense). Whether thats because of the injuries she's sustained or the Jockey being over confident, or the fact that she struggled with the track (as lets face it the straight track at Ascot is not the easiest) or the ground or even the journey, I would not like to say. The point remains we did not see the horse yesterday that is BC. 

It also has nothing to do with winning margins, Sea the Stars rarely won a race by more than a length, its the way she ran that was disappointing. 

Yes she still won, which as I said at the beginning was an incredible feat and she will go down in history (and deservedly so) as a true racing great but you cannot blame people, myself included for being disappointed.


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## Bobbly (24 June 2012)

I've just watched a youtube video of all of her previous 21 races. In every race she just cruises to the front and carries on to the line, often many lengths in front. In EVERY race her jockey Luke Nolan has used only hands and heels to get her across the line, no whip waving or slapping at all. This is obviously his normal way of riding her and in many cases she is easing up before she crosses the finish. It appears that this is the exact way he rode her at Ascot, she may well not have been quite right at the final stages but he trusted her and she won anyway. All credit to the pair of them, okay so it wasn't her usual 3 length win, but she braved it out and got there. She is one unique mare that's for sure and her connections have every right to be proud of her. Whether they carry on racing her or not, there will never be another Black Caviar, unbeaten or otherwise.


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## lisa77 (24 June 2012)

Bobbly, she is a very special mare and it's not just her connections that are proud of her,  I'm pretty sure all of Australia is pretty proud of her.

We knew she was brilliant, but we never really knew if she was tough... like you said she has never ever been challenged. 
With what has come to light today, we now know how tough she is.


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## Cuffey (24 June 2012)

Another report on her muscle injuries--no wonder she did not look sound at the finish
http://www.racingandsports.com.au/racing/rsnewsart.asp?NID=253632


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## lmason (24 June 2012)

Dear English Horse lovers,
You definately did see a diminshed version of our much loved Aussie Champ.
I've been present at the track for about 6 of her races in Aus and I always watch horses in the mounting yard and during the pre race preliminaries.

Her trot was uneven before that race definately different from my recollections of seeing her at the track in Melbourne, Australia. I think she was sore and stiff before she even got to the barriers.

She looked OK when she cantered but the trot was different and uneven. I thought it might have been the off hind not quite tracking through. Hind leg lameness is always tricky.

If Luke Nolen knew she was sore that might be why he pulled up early. She is up for a big bonus now that she has won in England.

Exciting to see your super star Frankel just go out and cream them. He looks bigger and stronger now, maybe they will try and take him to Longchamp for the 'Arc. He is from the same female family as our great Makybe Diva's sire Desert King. Desert King has thrown some good hurdlers, champion show hacks and even an up and coming event horse over here in Aus, proving that strength and athletisicm on the track can be transferred to all the horse sports. Frankel's little bro Noble Mission looked a bit unlucky too.

Just on great female families check out Sea Moon and Workforce's female ancestry and you find the great Pretty Polly [14c]. I read Hislop's The Brigadier (also a direct descendant of Pretty Polly) when I was a kid and have become totally obsessed with studying the female heritage of racehorses. It's quite surprising how dormant families can throw a champ out of what seems from nowhere but if you do your homework you can find a champion matriach way back. I suppose the few hundred years that the thoroughbred has been specifically bred for racing is no time at all when considered against the time taken for the evolution of the horse.

On that note, you will find the greatest mare of all in your current derby hero Camelot's pedigree. He goes directly back to the unbeaten Kincsem.


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## giveachance (24 June 2012)

Thanks for that bit of info Imason, I find Bloodlines particularly mares fascinating, and they are so often overshadowed by the sires lines, so thanks again, really interesting x


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## redriverrock (24 June 2012)

What a shame we didnt see her at her best...I also felt she was not right before the race and it was blindingly obvious she was lame after the race. When they trotted her past the stands I cant believe the jockey didnt realise she was lame and get off her. 
The horse is clearly amazing and managed to win even when injured...just really sad the humans involved all came off looking a bit clueless. The jockey looked like a man who was about to see the firing squad after the race! Why could he not say...she is lame thats why she only just won and i stopped riding...he must have known. Did the trainer feel under so much pressure he had to run her no matter what?
I just hope they give her a nice rest and dont put her in that position again.
By the way I love racing and am not against it...just dont like to see horses being used like this when they are clearly not right


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## Racergirl (24 June 2012)

Love her, still love her and in a way Im glad they found an injury, becuse she didnt win the way that people expected her to.

BUT

she still won. Luke Nolan has put his hands up (all credit!) and has at no stage tried to blame anyone other than himself - and he knows full well the Auzzie press are going to annhailate him. (and from what Ive been told, it wont be a suprise if he doesnt have a job after that - but I sincerely hope they are wrong - that wouldnt be fair at all IMO) 

the trainers comments about Frankel's rating and opposition were becuase he also runs against the same horses time and time again ( you can only beat what turns up after all ) but you never seem to find his opposition slated the way BCs are.... 

wonderful mare, glad she won, glad shes going home in one piece. Hope she wins in Hong Kong in the manner that we are all accustomed to seeing her do, she deserves it.

(oh - and that Arazi Breeders Cup race?? My favourite Jaw dropping race ever, closely followed by Dancing Brave's Arc )


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## lmason (24 June 2012)

Honeylight said:



			I wasn't really putting her down; she is a big coarse sprinter with a sprinter's typical build. I have just seen a posed picture of her & she does look pretty stunning. Sorry Nelly!
Maybe she was off colour today, as on the TV her coat looked a bit dull, but then I suppose swapping hemispheres isn't that good for a lady's looks!

It will be interesting to see what she produces as a brood mare, her pedigree is interesting as she is inbred to Northern Dancer & Silly Season. & Wilkes. I remember one of her ancestors Lunchtime winning the Dewhurst Stakes, he didn't train on but he was a stunning looking horse. 

I love racing, but she was too hyped before the race; glad she managed to get her nose in front, she seems a very brave mare.
		
Click to expand...

Dear Honeylight,
That is interesting what you say about Lunchtime. He was a bit of an underrated stallion in Australia though he has his own line of champions through the Snippets sire line and shows up often in dam lines.

He produced some of the best show hacks and dressage horses in Aus- he became something of a legend with the non racing horse sports crowd. Great types often liver chestnuts, with sensible temperaments. Even recently his descendants have been crossed with european warmbloods and are producing exciting performance horses.

Cheers from Aus


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