# To all who think that racehorses have a hard time



## lhotse (23 April 2011)

With regards to the amount of posts lately concerning the treatment of racehorses, and also the threads about equine slaughter, if you really want to do something for the good of animals, then I suggest you watch the following video and watch where you buy your meat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_bZzxep87c

Warning, this contains extremely upsetting footage, but I think that everyone should be aware. I am not a vegetarian, but I am outraged that this barbaric practice is allowed to continue in the name of religion.


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## _MizElz_ (24 April 2011)

*********** b*********.

I'd always known it was bad; I didn't realise quite how bad. Thank you for sharing; I never feel I can comment accurately on matters like this unless I've seen evidence for myself. As you say, the fact that this method is all 'in the name of religion' makes it all the more horrific. 

Poor, poor animals.


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## marmalade76 (24 April 2011)

Vid won't work for me as I'm not signed up.

I take it that the cow is on it's feet for some time after it's throats been cut?

I really cannot understand why this, supposedly civilised country allows this sort of thing to happen. IMO, people who require this method of slaughter should go without meat or find somewhere else to live.


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## Apercrumbie (24 April 2011)

I could only watch a small amount - the pain in that cow's eyes just made me scream. :'(


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## amandap (24 April 2011)

Not that the dreadful abuse some farmed animals have to endure in any way takes from other supposedly 'lesser' abuses, have a look at these VERY DISTURBING VIDEOS. The link is to a facebook page so hopefully will work.
http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/OhioFarmCruelty

Don't think some of this stuff doesn't happen throughout the world.


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## Jennyharvey (24 April 2011)

I watch a similar video a few years ago, and it, and other slaughter methods, made me go veggie.  Unfortunately this s**t still goes on, when it would be soo much kinder to kill them instantly.  The suffering of these animals is so unnessesary.


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## Jennyharvey (24 April 2011)

amandap said:



			Not that the dreadful abuse some farmed animals have to endure in any way takes from other supposedly 'lesser' abuses, have a look at these VERY DISTURBING VIDEOS. The link is to a facebook page so hopefully will work.
http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/OhioFarmCruelty

Don't think some of this stuff doesn't happen throughout the world.
		
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Exactly.  Its very common unfortunately.  Not just in the states, but everywhere, including britian and ireland.


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## Dizzle (24 April 2011)

I knew that halal butchery involved the throat being slit and the animal bled to death but I assumed that it was a quick death 

Why don't they sever the spinal colummn?


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## millreef (24 April 2011)

Ridiculous argument - I wondered how long it would be until someone brought this up.  Let's use a counter argument agains horse racing with a completely unrelated religious matter.  If that IS your argument, then two wrongs don't make a right!


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## _MizElz_ (24 April 2011)

millreef said:



			Ridiculous argument - I wondered how long it would be until someone brought this up.  Let's use a counter argument agains horse racing with a completely unrelated religious matter.  If that IS your argument, then two wrongs don't make a right!
		
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I'm not quite sure how to read your post, millreef...

Your username would tend to suggest you are pro-racing, so on the one hand, it makes little sense that you would respond negatively to a post that is actually intended to demonstrate how ridiculous and unfounded some of the recent anti-racing posts have been. 

On the other hand, I don't actually see how you can claim that it is 'a completely unrelated religious matter.' Take religion out of the equation - the issue at hand is that of animal welfare, and there is a definite link between the two scenarios. Racehorses (for the most part) meet a swift and humane end. The cows, sheep and goats in the halal slaughterhouses do not. And if people want to use their 'voice' to change something, then THIS is REAL cruelty, and THIS is what they should be targeting. Not racing.


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## tigerlily12345 (24 April 2011)

this made me physically sick but i do feel i should watch these things all the way through so i did.. there was a similar thread about skinning animals alive recently another which made me feel ill  and i do think everyone should be aware but i genuinely do not know how to help these situations


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## Millie&Missy (24 April 2011)

not even gonna watch it - veggie for life, and now you all know why


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## brown tack (24 April 2011)

I never knew that Halal meet bred animals are exculed from animal right laws, that doesnt make sence. A law is a law right?


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## amandap (24 April 2011)

Just better point out that the link I put up is not about Halal slaughter. I'm unable to summon the courage to watch these videos any more.


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## 1stclassalan (24 April 2011)

Let's get one thing straight first - ritual slaughter is not pure the domain of Moslims (Halal) - the Jews have their Kosher too and it's virtually the same.

I speak as someone who grew up in far more gritty times, when killing and death was more closely linked to what you ate - if you don't want to be associated with that then it's nut cutlets for you. Personally I could do without meat if there was a decent substitute for gravy!!!

That said, I personally think that one does not suffer too much from any injury that kills you reasonably quickly - you're not going to recover from a cut throat - the cut is stunning in itself and the loss of blood soon puts pay to conciousness. The fact that many animals will thrash in their death throes doesn't suit our new age squeamishness but it's not that much different to having a thundering great electric shock through your head - often after you've been lifted on a hook by your back legs and this after the joys of transport on a meat wagon. A bullet or captured bolt gun is very little different either - a big bang on the head followed by bleeding out - never pretty but besides the point as to what is humane.

Meat ainmals are being raised for meat - obvious, I would like to think that they are treated with respect right up to curtain time but the biggest frightener in my opinion is the trip to the slaughterhouse - which is all enshrined in laws of health & safety etc.

Racehorses are produced and kept for racing - some poorly, some extraordinarily well and an aweful lot fairly average and many will look on this as an abuse but on the whole it's a fairly mild abuse. I have posted that I'd prefer the whip to be banned but even with things as they are - there's many lives of animals far, far worse.


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## tallyho! (25 April 2011)

Whoa - that surely isn't in the same league as racing/eventing??

But now we are on the subject... Halal/Kosher method uses the same tools available in ancient times and tradition dictates it still be used despite advances. I think it is really silly. However, some traditions die hard. I mean they could still say the prayer while it was being killed humanely... gah! Humans are so thick.

It is worth noting that modern slaughter using electro-stunning can still be incomplete. Plenty of stories of pigs being hung and they wake up!!!


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## KarynK (25 April 2011)

Can't remember now where I saw it but an animal can be stunned before it's throat is cut t, there is nothing to forbid this in the religious texts apparently, as the blood must be let before death which is what happens in a normal slaughter procedure of some animals??  It is just a misconception and so compulsory stunning prior to the use of the knife could be enforced in Halal ritual slaughter.  

Apparently this government listens to the concerns of it's electorate so why not start a petition and get this stopped?


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## Over2You (25 April 2011)

This is exactly why I *NEVER* eat meat. It doesn't matter if it is obtained this way or the modern 'humane' method of stunning (which is often botched anyway). *ALL* slaughter is inhumane in my eyes. The *ONLY* way of ensuring you *NEVER* eat an animal killed in such a barbaric fashion is to turn vegetarian. Supermarkets, fast food outlets, and restaurants will use Halal meat without telling you or knowing where their supplier sourced the meat. They are often reluctant to tell you (for fear of you not giving them your custom) or won't even bother to try to find out for you. 

The pain in the eyes of those poor animals was heartbreaking. I'll never understand how humans can be as cruel.


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## millreef (25 April 2011)

_MizElz_ said:



			I'm not quite sure how to read your post, millreef...

Your username would tend to suggest you are pro-racing, so on the one hand, it makes little sense that you would respond negatively to a post that is actually intended to demonstrate how ridiculous and unfounded some of the recent anti-racing posts have been. 

On the other hand, I don't actually see how you can claim that it is 'a completely unrelated religious matter.' Take religion out of the equation - the issue at hand is that of animal welfare, and there is a definite link between the two scenarios. Racehorses (for the most part) meet a swift and humane end. The cows, sheep and goats in the halal slaughterhouses do not. And if people want to use their 'voice' to change something, then THIS is REAL cruelty, and THIS is what they should be targeting. Not racing.
		
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I can see your point about animal cruelty, I disagree strongly however, with showing Halal or Kosher slaughter - they have very strict laws which non Muslim or Jewish people probably won't sympathize with.  It makes them a good target - _Yeah! Lets bash the God-Squad, they're cruel to their animals Yeah! _ It deflects away from the real issue.  Why not just show a clip of the chickens who get their beaks clipped off by a machine, then hung on a hook before being boiled to death for Kentucky Fried Chicken?  This is freely available to all, regardless of religion and it's something we can do something about.  
P.S. I'm called Millreef because he was the greatest racehorse ever - fact


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## 1stclassalan (25 April 2011)

millreef said:



			I can see your point about animal cruelty, I disagree strongly however, with showing Halal or Kosher slaughter - they have very strict laws which non Muslim or Jewish people probably won't sympathize with.  It makes them a good target - _Yeah! Lets bash the God-Squad, they're cruel to their animals Yeah! _ It deflects away from the real issue.
		
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The problem you'll have with that point of view ( if I undertand you correctly ) is you will have great difficulty just proposing a sudden outright ban on eating meat - let alone getting it adopted and introduced into law.

Sorting out some obvious abuses would be easier and more practical for now while life style choices may indeed bring about your ideals later.

The God-Squad as you call them, need censure on so many levels - why not start on this barbaric practise?




			Why not just show a clip of the chickens who get their beaks clipped off by a machine, then hung on a hook before being boiled to death for Kentucky Fried Chicken?  This is freely available to all, regardless of religion and it's something we can do something about.
		
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I think you have this slightly wrong - chickens are hook hung and stunned automatically on rail slaughter systems - nothing happens to them before stunning; however; - and it is a BIG however; - have you ever seen the method they are transported to the slaughterhouse??? 

I used to have an office in Brackley, U.K. where I had occassion to see large lorries loaded with chicken crates outside a company called Fascenda Chicken, ( might have the spelling out ) I understand that they kill and butcher chickens for many retail and commercial businesses. Now those poor birds where often stuck in those crates for hour upon hour in summer heat without any water or sustainance until their turn came to enter the building. Birds were packed about four or five to a crate, with may be 500 crates on a lorry - I'm sure that many were near death or actually dead before the reached the line but no one seems to think it much of a problem.







			P.S. I'm called Millreef because he was the greatest racehorse ever - fact

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  What better than Shergar ? Mill Reef broke down before he could achieve proper greatness but I would put it to you that the actual fact of him breaking down means he was not as good as you suggest.


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## Jennyharvey (25 April 2011)

Over2You said:



			This is exactly why I *NEVER* eat meat. It doesn't matter if it is obtained this way or the modern 'humane' method of stunning (which is often botched anyway). *ALL* slaughter is inhumane in my eyes. The *ONLY* way of ensuring you *NEVER* eat an animal killed in such a barbaric fashion is to turn vegetarian. Supermarkets, fast food outlets, and restaurants will use Halal meat without telling you or knowing where their supplier sourced the meat. They are often reluctant to tell you (for fear of you not giving them your custom) or won't even bother to try to find out for you. 

The pain in the eyes of those poor animals was heartbreaking. I'll never understand how humans can be as cruel. 

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Totally agree.  If humans carry on exploiting animals for their own gain, animals will always suffer.  Its unfortunate, but so true.


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## suzysparkle (25 April 2011)

Over2You said:



			This is exactly why I *NEVER* eat meat. It doesn't matter if it is obtained this way or the modern 'humane' method of stunning (which is often botched anyway). *ALL* slaughter is inhumane in my eyes. The *ONLY* way of ensuring you *NEVER* eat an animal killed in such a barbaric fashion is to turn vegetarian. Supermarkets, fast food outlets, and restaurants will use Halal meat without telling you or knowing where their supplier sourced the meat. They are often reluctant to tell you (for fear of you not giving them your custom) or won't even bother to try to find out for you. 


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What a narrow minded view you have. Of course there are suppliers you can buy meat from with a fully traceable history. I'm also quite sure that the vast majority of slaugherhouses are very stringent. 

So, do you also not use / wear leather, wear wool (sheared from farm animals), eat dairy of any sort, eat jelly / wine gums etc etc?? That would be hard  .What we should be campaigning for is to see minimum standards raised across the industry. The whole country is never going to turn veggie so much better to get behind the likes of Hugh Fearnley Whittingstall and Jamie Oliver who are genuinely trying to raise awareness of this and get us all to eat better. 

Can someone with more knowledge clarify, in the UK are Halal slaughtered animals meant to be stunned first? I had a feeling they were but I may well be wrong. I think any religious rule that lessens the quickness of slaughter needs to be 'reviewed'.


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## Kallibear (26 April 2011)

That is horrific but it also Halal preformed poorly. I personally don't agree with as it doesn't work with every animal but it can be effective and humane.

When the carotiod artery is cut the massive drop in blood pressure causes almost instant unconciousness, or is SHOULD if done correctly. However unlike stunning it's far easier to get wrong. The head needs to be held upwards and remain upwards whilst the animal dies to ensure continued unconciousness. Hanging them whilst still 'alive' undoes that due to gravity  Turning them on their back isn't much better. It can work though: that last sheep shown was unconcious instantly.

Sadly slaughter is only as humane as the skilled slaughter man who does it. Rather than banning meat it's far better to campaign for better training and welfare standards dueing slaughter. I've slaughters and euthanasied numerous animals and they have all died with minimal stress but I have seem some horrific deaths too


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## texel (7 May 2011)

Interesting discussion - alas there are many distasteful practices going on around the planet relating to the mis- treatment of animals.

Animals are bred; to be eaten by humans and to go into pet food,   for fun and sport and for profit. Those which do not find homes are no doubt slaughtered somewhere. 

Back to racehorses, which is the theme of this thread I think racehorses do have a hard life, have a look at the Animal Aid site, the race horse section: 
http://www.animalaid.org.uk/h/n/CAMPAIGNS/horse/ALL///


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## teagreen (7 May 2011)

texel said:



			Interesting discussion - alas there are many distasteful practices going on around the planet relating to the mis- treatment of animals.

Animals are bred; to be eaten by humans and to go into pet food,   for fun and sport and for profit. Those which do not find homes are no doubt slaughtered somewhere. 

Back to racehorses, which is the theme of this thread I think racehorses do have a hard life, have a look at the Animal Aid site, the race horse section: 
http://www.animalaid.org.uk/h/n/CAMPAIGNS/horse/ALL///

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Honestly don't believe everything Animal Aid say. In fact, most of what they say regarding racehorses is absolute rubbish. Animal Aid want the use of animals for sport and leisure banned, so they are obviously going to exploit the worst of everything and make up sensationalist stories.


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## mymare (7 May 2011)

1stclassalan said:



			How horrific!!  I totally agree with you regarding transport conditions being overlooked by those people who seem more concerned about the actual slaughter.




suzysparkle said:



			What a narrow minded view you have. Of course there are suppliers you can buy meat from with a fully traceable history. I'm also quite sure that the vast majority of slaugherhouses are very stringent. 





Can someone with more knowledge clarify, in the UK are Halal slaughtered animals meant to be stunned first? I had a feeling they were but I may well be wrong. I think any religious rule that lessens the quickness of slaughter needs to be 'reviewed'.
		
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It was, indeed, a very narrow minded opinion, most butchers up here can tell us which local farmer their meat has been sourced from.

Am posting a link to the Defra site, click on "Religious Slaughter" and you will see that, no, Halal slaughtered meat does not have to be stunned first.
		
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## tristar (7 May 2011)

when i had a horse with a condition which eroded the covering of the carotid artery the professor, a world specialist in his field explained to me that if the artery went, therefore causing the animal to haemorrage and bleed to death that the only thing to do was get out of the stable and shut the door because in fact  the actual death is caused by SUFFOCATION, so am i right in assuming that it is the same in these slaughtering processes? luckily the horse got better.

death by suffocation? 

i cannot watch the videos because i have already seen things i can never talk about, when will we learn?

thousands of years ago there were the gladiators, seventy years ago the concentration camps, one day we will look back at these times with the same revulsion and wonder how it was that people could do such things


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## mymare (7 May 2011)

mymare said:



			Am posting a link to the Defra site, click on "Religious Slaughter" and you will see that, no, Halal slaughtered meat does not have to be stunned first.
		
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I suppose it would help if I actually attached the link...

http://archive.defra.gov.uk/foodfarm/farmanimal/welfare/slaughter/#religiousslaughter


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## Damnation (9 May 2011)

That video is simply disgusting.
The fear in those animals eyes was sickening..


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## Spyda (9 May 2011)

Eugh....


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## miss_bird (11 May 2011)

I just cannot bring myself to watch the vidoes, i know it is cowardly of me but i would end up crying all night.
I totally disagree with animlas suffering at the slaughter house in the name of religion (what ever darn religion), this is where the people need to be shouting for change as the poor animals cant.
Why cant the animlas not be stunned before their throat is slit, and why is this allowed to go on in this day and age


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## renjames (13 May 2011)

I had never been a great meat eater but when I was 16 I watched several videos on animal slaughter and they turnt me vegeterian. I am now 24 and feel exactly the same as I did then. This is outrageous that this type of animal cruelty goes on! But unfortunatly, whilst there are those of us who do not eat meat, nor eat anything with animal in them ie gelatine, there are those that still do. 
Many of them are unaware of the cruel things that go on in slaughter houses, and I know as Ive had a tough time convincing my parents that I know what Im talking about. 
They seem to believe that if this type of animal slaughter does occur its only in foreign countries and they would never have consumed such meat in the uk.

What theu dont realise os that this meat is imported into the uk and they have most probably consumed


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## renjames (13 May 2011)

I accidently posted and I wasnt finished!

What I was trying to say was if you are going to continue to buy and eat meat then please pay that little bit more and get meat from british farmers in the supermarket or better still farm shops.


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## photo_jo (13 May 2011)

1stclassalan said:



			T

  What better than Shergar ? Mill Reef broke down before he could achieve proper greatness but I would put it to you that the actual fact of him breaking down means he was not as good as you suggest.
		
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Mill Reef did not break down he broke a leg on the gallops and yes much greater than Shergar (IMO!)


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## Vickijay (14 May 2011)

That video is horrific. I stopped it as didnt think I could watch it but went back. The bit where the cow was trying to moo but couldnt as its throat was cut was just awful and the one that did manage to moo when it was on the floor. Just terrible.

For the last 3 years I have only eaten free range animals and will eat veggie if free range is not a option. 

Im sure I read that British Airways *only* serve halal meat now...


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## TarantuLove (15 May 2011)

I couldn't stomach that video


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## Megibo (15 May 2011)

oh that video really made my stomach churn. the fact they are still alive is sickening, and the cow that was alive with its stomach slit wide open, and the one trying to moo...its heartbreaking. 
Normally i'll eat any type of meat quite happily but after watching that i'm going vegetarian!
The thought of eating meat right now makes me gag...


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## MagicMelon (15 May 2011)

Cant bear to watch the video, but I do know about halal and find it sickening.  I am getting closer to being a veggie after visiting a pig farm yesterday.  Just your average farm but I had it in my head that animals were kept so much better than they were.  The mother pigs were kept in horrifically tight crushes (couldnt turn round at all), I'm told so they dont crush their babies and its only for a few weeks but wow, what a miserable exsistance!  And as for the weaners being kept in what I would call a hot fridge (very low ventilation, the smell was so bad my eyes were watering!) with nothing but matting and food.  How bored they must be!  These is a place near me who do breed their pigs outside, I'm wondering though - it never says "free range" on pig meat?


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## milesjess (26 May 2011)

Couldn't watch it after the first killing  I HATE these videos but the reality of it is that people need to see them and broadcast them otherwise no one know's what goes on in these terrible, gruesome places 

Poor poor animals!!


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## laura7981 (26 May 2011)

I wish I hadn't watched that video, I don't know whether to cry or vomit. What kind of world do we live in where we can let this barbaric treatment happen. I've been a vegetarian for over 20 years thank god. Poor poor animals. Why can't they kill them outright? It's just wrong, so wrong.


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## SonnysHumanSlave (27 May 2011)

Ive seen some pretty s**t videos online. But that has got to be one of the worst!! 

I will purposely never buy halal meat! I shall make sure! I didn't know they were slaughtered and alive for that long  

By the way I think you'll find your local nandos is halal!


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## Holly Hocks (28 May 2011)

I used to be vegetarian and after watching that, I'm thinking of becoming vegetarian again - I don't really like meat anyway.  I'm not against using animals for meat, but unless I can be sure of the method of slaughter, then maybe I should quit eating it again.  I think ALL meat that is Halal/Kosher - call it what you will, should be labelled as such and then at least people can make an informed choice.


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## Polotone (31 May 2011)

couldn't watch but I can imagine


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## bauer5152 (2 June 2011)

lhotse said:



			With regards to the amount of posts lately concerning the treatment of racehorses, and also the threads about equine slaughter, if you really want to do something for the good of animals, then I suggest you watch the following video and watch where you buy your meat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_bZzxep87c

Warning, this contains extremely upsetting footage, but I think that everyone should be aware. I am not a vegetarian, but I am outraged that this barbaric practice is allowed to continue in the name of religion.
		
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Such a very amazing link!


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## Vindaloo (2 June 2011)

That was without a doubt one of the most horrific things I have ever seen.  I am sitting here absolutely stunned.  I had no idea just how bad it was.

Evolution has put us at the top of the food chain and has designed us to eat meat and veg.  In addition, we are apparently also the most intelligent life form on earth.  So, is it not incumbent upon us to treat the unfortunate animals to the highest standard of life up to the point of slaughter which should be as pain/terror free as possible.

The first clip proved that it can be done, we all know it can.  I don't think that the kicking out and trying to stand, or desperately trying to moo in terror was just the body going through the motions of an unconcious mind.  That animal was fighting for it's life.  How Halal and Kosher methods can still be used in this day and age is truly beyond me.

There are so many atrocoties in this world which would leave us reeling in horror towards people and animals.  It's overwhelming.  Hubby and I have just had a bit of a disagreement about this whole thing, he thinks that it will never be stopped and that I was foolish to watch it.  Surely though if we all do even a small amount to try to change things, eventually it can happen.


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## zangersheide (2 June 2011)

Don't need to watch the video and on't want to, I am aware of what goes on,I have seen enough and I can't bear to see animals in fear, stays with me for days/weeks.

I am vegetarian, but, I have leather saddles and bridles- yes this makes me a hypocrite, I don't like it but feel I can't get around it. I had a synthetic saddle once and it just slid around my horses back, I now have  HM saddle to ensure the best comfort for my horse, so, in order for my horse to be happy, another animal has to suffer, its so hard isn't it .

I don't eat anything with gelatine, but my cats eat cat food (obviously).


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## horseless jorge! (2 June 2011)

What I want to know is how can someone work here day in, day out, and not feel pain? How?

This is worse than anything I have words for.


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## Molly'sMama (4 June 2011)

Oh my fecking god. That bit , with the cow, BLINKING  whilst its blood...Slipping in its own....
Look , it's wrong. But the thing is ,with Islam ,Allah probably didnt expressly say - if you ever get the technology , you can be nicer to the animals. So they feel they have to stay with tradition/or dont need to. But I know an Islamic girl , and she will not eat any meat, 

but i still feel so ,so, so,so, sick . Do these people actually call themselves human ? 
ets - watched the facebook one as well. holy f---! actually was nearly sick .


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## tristar (4 June 2011)

dougalsmom i agree with all you say, but i do believe it will stop, it starts here with us, the more its talked about, debated and complained about the more likely it is that the anti will gain momentum by keeping it at the forefront of peoples minds and never forgetting for a single day that whenever we get the chance to speak our minds eventually the energy created will end it, we can go through life oblivious, but that kind of thing just smacks you in the face and makes you speak out.

i just wish we had governments who would act, it is illegal to cause distress in the slaughter process according to eu rules and  all animals are supposed to be dealt with as humanely as possible, so how on earth is this continuing legally?


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## JustKickOn (4 June 2011)

My uni filter has blocked it. Judging from some of the comments, it must be bad


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## Charliepony (6 June 2011)

Just because some cruelty isn't 'as bad' as others, doesn't make it acceptable!

I keep seeing this argument over and over, I really can't comprehend it... It's like saying "she was assaulted? Oh well that's nothing, some people get murdered"!! Just doesn't make sense!

As for the farming issues, it's the reason why I'm a vegetarian and attempting to be vegan. I feel that if you want to eat meat, you should really kill it yourself - the only way you can be sure it has a decent life and humane end. (why I am pro hunting)

And racing... I have nothing against the racing itself, yes horses die, but it's generally a very quick end, and more horses are destroyed due to accidents in the field, and they often don't get found and put out of their suffering for hours. I have ex racers, and they love to run, it can't be denied.

What I have an issue with is what happens to the excess horses, after their racing career is over. Animals too small, too old, too slow, or with fairly minor injuries... Not many have happily ever after stories...


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