# Help with Belgian passport



## Bubbles (13 February 2008)

Hi there, this is a bit of a long shot but I wonder if any of you lovely people can help me: my gelding has a Belgian passport, and I cannot for love nor money track down the issuing organisation. The passport has Het Belgisch Europees Stamboek (BES) on it, yet the prefix on the microchip number (which matches that in the horse!) is from the Netherlands. I've contacted the people at the sBs who weren't very helpful and said the document was probably a fake... The BWP people said the passport didn't come from them. The only glimmer of hope I've had is that I've seen on a website that the AES office was in Belgium at one time, so maybe that is where the BES comes from?! I've contacted the AES but haven't heard back. Am becoming increasingly worried that I've been had... For anyone who's interested he's out of Samber by a Landgraf mare called Larome, this in itself is possibly suspicious as this mare has exactly the same breeding as the famous stallion of the same name. I found her on the allpedigree.com website, but how reliable is that?! 
Thanks in advance, any help/advice is greatly appreciated!


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## Ciss (13 February 2008)

I have a feeling that you have been had :-(. I have seen a couple of their passports and they look like very amateur cobbled-together jobs, with no issuing address and several other infringements of passort legislation :-(. 

They are nothing to do with the AES and seem to be used by people breeding part-bred (ungraded) Friesians and warmbloods in Belgiium and parts of The Netherlands so if you want to trace them try the relavant Ministries of Agriculture in those countries as this will tell you if it is an approved PIO in eitehr of them  (which I don't actually think it is &lt;sigh&gt.

It is certainly not a WBFSH member studbook either.


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## Violet (13 February 2008)

Allbreed and Pardenfokken (a similar dutch pedigree website) http://www.paardenfokken.nl/find.php are filled in by the public so information can't always be taken as true. But it can give some leads and with some more research you can decide if you want to belive in what you find there.
If you search on Larome on Pardenfokken you can see that his dam Miara has got a mare progeny called Clack also by Landgraf I born 1988. Some mare owners use the same stallion for their mares several times and not all of them end up being stallions. Larome and his dam are Holsteiners so perhaps you need to check with them. Sometimes the offspring is also given the same name but it is usually followed by a number.


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## firm (13 February 2008)

Could it be something to do with this studbook -
http://www.europeesstamboek.nl/Uitslag_Keuring_Zandhoven.htm

I think it is Dutch studbook but it looks like it has Belgium office but I really am guessing as cant read any of the info but it does say EUROPEES STAMBOEK BELGIUM

I think I have seen some coloured stallions graded in this studbook so maybe also a link with your horse's breeding


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## Bubbles (13 February 2008)

The passport itself is very amateur ish. I'm certain it isn't isn't defra legal, I will register him with another org and get one from scratch, what is annoying me is whether he is bred as he's meant to be. Thanks for your help, I'll see if I can get in touch with the ministries as you suggest.


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## Bubbles (13 February 2008)

Thanks so much for this, I've just emailed them for info. Cheers!


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## Violet (13 February 2008)

With regards of "firm"'s reply. If you put your chipnumber in you might come up with something.
http://www.stichtingeuropeesstamboek.nl/


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## Ciss (13 February 2008)

[ QUOTE ]


I think I have seen some coloured stallions graded in this studbook so maybe also a link with your horse's breeding 

[/ QUOTE ]

Which I have just realised is why it rings a bell with me. Having been at several BSPA and CHAPS gradings where a stallion now apparently on the Europees graded stallion list failed spectacularly, I think not only are the pedigrees and registration procedures pretty dubious but the grading systems are too :-(


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## Louida (14 February 2008)

Sorry to hear you have been having trouble - there is a website which co-ordinates all the Passport numbers, so you can research you passport number on there:

http://www.haras-nationaux.fr/ueln-xml/index.php?id=14

There is a list of approved organisations - so anyone thinking of buying a horse with a foreign passport can check up on it's validity etc.

(_)(_)


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