# Eric's Charm PTS at Newbury :(



## alliersv1 (5 March 2011)

Sadly this lovely old chap has been PTS this afternoon after blundering on landing and breaking a foreleg in his attempts to stay upright.
I was a real fan of his, and it was a desperately sad thing to see.
RIP old chap


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## TelH (5 March 2011)

It was horrible, you just knew the way his leg went he was gone. Been a cr@p year at Newbury so far


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## alliersv1 (5 March 2011)

TelH said:



   It was horrible, you just knew the way his leg went he was gone. Been a cr@p year at Newbury so far   

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I know, no way back from that. Such a shame. 
Been a bad year everywhere so far!!
You know it's bad when the C4 lot don't try and bulls*it and sugarcoat it and refer to him in the past tense straight away  

I have Cheltenham week off..I don't know if I will dare watch..


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## TelH (5 March 2011)

I think it was also maybe a little insensitive whoever on Channel 4 said it was heartbreaking for Alderburn to come second...at least he will be going home this evening


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## Jennyharvey (5 March 2011)

I wonder how many more horses will die before people realise that racing is no longer the sport of kings, but of the egotistical and greedy.  The sooner its banned, the better.  
RIP wee pet.


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## glenruby (5 March 2011)

I didnt think that was insensitive. Alderburn deserved a win - so close and yet so far. Of course Daly will me more than pleased just to have im home this evening but for all those watching it would have been lovely to see him win.

As for Eric - yes you could just see after landing that he had lost his action and the unthinkable had happened.They were just saying in the paddock before how well in himself he looked too.


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## glenruby (5 March 2011)

Again - jennyharvey, racing will never be banned. Horses die and are fatally injured every day - in every discipline and through wilfull neglect, it a fact of life. There are also egotistical and greedy people in every walk of life and every equine discipline - no moreso in racing than anywhere else. 
And even if it were, then the days of pleasure riding for so many would be over too as the price of feed/bedding/tack/veterinary costs would go up and availability would go down. Be careful what you wish for.

If I were lucky enough to be reincarnated then I would chose to come back as a racehorse. No question.


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## alliersv1 (5 March 2011)

glenruby said:



			Again - jennyharvey, racing will never be banned. Horses die and are fatally injured every day - in every discipline and through wilfull neglect, it a fact of life. There are also egotistical and greedy people in every walk of life and every equine discipline - no moreso in racing than anywhere else. 
And even if it were, then the days of pleasure riding for so many would be over too as the price of feed/bedding/tack/veterinary costs would go up and availability would go down. Be careful what you wish for.

If I were lucky enough to be reincarnated then I would chose to come back as a racehorse. No question.
		
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Well put.
I will be the first to admit that I have a love hate relationship with racing.
There is nothing more spectacular than seeing a good chaser take off outside the wings and fly, and nothing sadder than seeing one come to grief.
In ALL aspects of equine sport (and the horseworld in general) things happen that we would rather didn't.
Sometimes it is bad luck, money related, or just plain cruelty, but the end result is the same.
At least on a racecourse, horses can be attended to quickly, unlike if you are on a hack in the middle of nowhere and the unthinkable happens.


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## Jennyharvey (5 March 2011)

glenruby said:



			Again - jennyharvey, racing will never be banned. Horses die and are fatally injured every day - in every discipline and through wilfull neglect, it a fact of life. There are also egotistical and greedy people in every walk of life and every equine discipline - no moreso in racing than anywhere else. 
And even if it were, then the days of pleasure riding for so many would be over too as the price of feed/bedding/tack/veterinary costs would go up and availability would go down. Be careful what you wish for.

If I were lucky enough to be reincarnated then I would chose to come back as a racehorse. No question.
		
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I sure as hell wouldnt want to be a racehorse, or a horse at all actually.  They are the most over worked and underpaid of all our domestic animals.  
They are worked too hard, not just in racing, are fed unnatural feeds, kept indoors, and more.  

No, definately wouldnt want to be a horse.  But each to there own i guess.


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## TicTac (5 March 2011)

glenruby said:



			Again - jennyharvey, racing will never be banned. Horses die and are fatally injured every day - in every discipline and through wilfull neglect, it a fact of life. There are also egotistical and greedy people in every walk of life and every equine discipline - no moreso in racing than anywhere else. 
And even if it were, then the days of pleasure riding for so many would be over too as the price of feed/bedding/tack/veterinary costs would go up and availability would go down. Be careful what you wish for.

If I were lucky enough to be reincarnated then I would chose to come back as a racehorse. No question.
		
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Second that opinion, except that I would definitely not come back as a race horse. I'd come back as a cat!


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## millhouse (5 March 2011)

Rest in peace Eric's Charm.  You were great.


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## glenruby (5 March 2011)

Tictac - maybe a few more lives would be the better option.

All that said, with Eric's charm (who I adored) and the horse injured in the next, its been a bad day. The only upside was watching Via Galalei cruising in in the hurdle. He was all over the 2nd placed horse. I rememeber wathing him run on the flat as a 2yo where he unseated his rider and went on a 2mile gallop round Leopardstown (?) - and was subsequently withdrawn. Remember the commentators saying perhaps hed make an awesome NH even with his breeding! They werent wrong!


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## kerilli (5 March 2011)

Jennyharvey said:



			I sure as hell wouldnt want to be a racehorse, or a horse at all actually.  They are the most over worked and underpaid of all our domestic animals.  
They are worked too hard, not just in racing, are fed unnatural feeds, kept indoors, and more.  

No, definately wouldnt want to be a horse.  But each to there own i guess.
		
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Huge generalisation there. Many horses have a wonderful, natural, very well cared for life. Mine do. I'd like to be reincarnated as one of my horses...  
Most horses are cared for, or left to their own devices in fields, for 23 hours a day, and expected to work for an hour a day or less. That's not a bad deal imho...  

Racing is very hard on horses BUT they do love it, it's going along with their natural instincts to run as part of a herd. If they don't want to do it, they don't. I do wish the powers that be would ban use of the whip outright (carry one to wave it to straighten horse, but not touch horse with it). The injuries and fatalities are tragic but without the industry, hundreds of thousands of horses would never be bred in the first place.


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## TelH (5 March 2011)

There was another fatality in the 3.35 at Newbury  Not a good day


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## minesadouble (5 March 2011)

The grey, Karky Schultz looked to die pretty much instantly. RIP. 

"There is nothing more spectacular than seeing a good chaser take off outside the wings and fly, and nothing sadder than seeing one come to grief."

Totally agree with this sentiment. 

Cannot wait until next Tuesday nevertheless, Cheltenham Festival has to be the greatest sporting spectacle of the year. The atmosphere is second to none. I won't be going this year due to family commitments but have the week off work and barring national disasters I will not be moving far from my Television !


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## racingdemon (5 March 2011)

my son, who is 2, was watching with me, & as his pony is grey, burst into tears when Karky Schultz fell, 

i'm very much of the opinion that they love what they do.... our filly LOVES racing, you can see it all over her face, she's got such a determined look about her in the last furlongs of a race,


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## Carefreegirl (5 March 2011)

So sad for everyone involved but sadly any sport including horses involves a risk. Only a few weeks ago there was a lady killed out hacking which was posted on this forum. I don't believe that anyone buys a racehorse and invests the time and money just for fun. You can't make any horse doing something it doesn't want to. On a happier note I've had my ex-racer 5 years today, seems like 5 months.


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## alliersv1 (5 March 2011)

TelH said:



			There was another fatality in the 3.35 at Newbury  Not a good day 

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I didn't have the heart to mention that one  
That was a truly horrible fall. Beautiful horse too. 
Another black day at Newbury


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## alliersv1 (5 March 2011)

minesadouble said:



			The grey, Karky Schultz looked to die pretty much instantly. RIP. 

"There is nothing more spectacular than seeing a good chaser take off outside the wings and fly, and nothing sadder than seeing one come to grief."

Totally agree with this sentiment. 

Cannot wait until next Tuesday nevertheless, Cheltenham Festival has to be the greatest sporting spectacle of the year. The atmosphere is second to none. I won't be going this year due to family commitments but have the week off work and barring national disasters I will not be moving far from my Television !
		
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I will do what I always do..Watch through my fingers, with my heart in my mouth. 
Seeing as I have the week off, it would be rude not to, but I will be a bag of nerves all the way through.


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## PRTeventing (5 March 2011)

Does anyone know what happened to the grey who fell in the last aired race on channel 4 at newbury, was in the hurdle race. Fell horribly hoped it was ok but looked like it was fitting or twitching in pain


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## alliersv1 (5 March 2011)

PRTeventing said:



			Does anyone know what happened to the grey who fell in the last aired race on channel 4 at newbury, was in the hurdle race. Fell horribly hoped it was ok but looked like it was fitting or twitching in pain 

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That was the aforementioned Karky Schultz. Fatal aswell unfortunately


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## Daffodil (5 March 2011)

I love my racing but just at the moment I'm finding it hard to watch.

Newbury seems blighted just now, although other courses have had their share of troubles.   I'm just praying that Cheltenham avoids similar disasters.

Channel 4 couldn't "gloss" over today's accidents as they both happened in full camera view and it was obvious on both occasions what had happened.

I take bit of comfort that as John Francome said Eric's Charm died what he loved doing, but I feel so sad for his trainer and connections, and for Karky Shultz too.  

Was it the same fence on both occasions?


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## TelH (5 March 2011)

It wasn't the same fence, Eric's Charm was in a chase, Karky Schultz in a hurdle


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## Whichypoohs (5 March 2011)

alliersv1 said:



			That was the aforementioned Karky Schultz. Fatal aswell unfortunately 

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It looked as if the Grey died instantly, and Eric's Charms leg seemed to "give" on landing.

Very sad day.


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## Over2You (5 March 2011)

kerilli said:



			Huge generalisation there. Many horses have a wonderful, natural, very well cared for life. Mine do. I'd like to be reincarnated as one of my horses...  
Most horses are cared for, or left to their own devices in fields, for 23 hours a day, and expected to work for an hour a day or less. That's not a bad deal imho...  

Racing is very hard on horses BUT they do love it, it's going along with their natural instincts to run as part of a herd. If they don't want to do it, they don't. I do wish the powers that be would ban use of the whip outright (carry one to wave it to straighten horse, but not touch horse with it). The injuries and fatalities are tragic but without the industry, hundreds of thousands of horses would never be bred in the first place.
		
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You are right regarding whips and that some horses do lead a good life. However, my Guy would NOT be enjoying a life of luxury had the racing industry gotten their way. He was one of about twenty who had gone to a killer auction. Most had not been fast enough, but several had picked up (non life threatening injuries), so the industry was washing its hands of them. A couple more were rescued, but I only had enough to save one. Really wish I could have saved the rest of them, but my bank account was not big enough. 

I strongly believe that horses do not love racing. When they run in a herd like that, their natural drive to stay with the herd kicks in. It is nothing more than instinct. If we could explain to them that there was a very high chance they could die, I do not think that any of them would start.


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## Over2You (5 March 2011)

Two horses dead (again!!) at Newbury, but *NO* headlines in the news or cries of 'sorrow' from the industry. Then again, they had not gotten their quids worth from the two who were electrocuted. Bleak day indeed if they are not getting any money!! 

Rest peacefully poor horses.


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## minesadouble (5 March 2011)

Over2You said:



			You are right regarding whips and that some horses do lead a good life. However, my Guy would NOT be enjoying a life of luxury had the racing industry gotten their way. He was one of about twenty who had gone to a killer auction. Most had not been fast enough, but several had picked up (non life threatening injuries), so the industry was washing its hands of them. A couple more were rescued, but I only had enough to save one. Really wish I could have saved the rest of them, but my bank account was not big enough. 

I strongly believe that horses do not love racing. When they run in a herd like that, their natural drive to stay with the herd kicks in. It is nothing more than instinct. If we could explain to them that there was a very high chance they could die, I do not think that any of them would start.
		
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Am not being facetious here - what exactly is a 'killer auction'??

I'm very  much pro-racing and I do think the majority enjoy it. Our own horses, ranging from a 13.2 NF to a TB ex racer love nothing better than a real good gallop, especially when out in company and they all get competitive with one another. The principle is surely the same? Yes, the sport is high risk but it is not the only high risk equestrian sport.

We risk our horses every time we turn them out in the field or hack them out on the road - esecially the latter, but we still do it.

I've had a few ex-racers, my eldest daughter currently has one, her first horse since coming off ponies, and I think it is testament to the way they are treated in racing that without fail mine have all had a real trust in people and genuine affection for them. We all know horses have long memories and if these horses had been abused they would not trust and enjoy the company of humans the way they do.

If you are a horse lover it is sometimes difficult to reconcile the risk of serious injury with the pleasure of watching an equine athlete do what it was bred to do. But how can anyone watch the likes of veteran chaser Monet's Garden flying fences from outside the wings with a look of real sheer joy on his face and say that is cruel or abusive to the horse?? Using this horse as an example also proves that not all owners are heartless and money orientaed - his owner's must have spent a fortune fighting for this horse's life (initially against veterinary advice) not so that he could make it back onto the track but in order for him to enjoy a hopefully long and pleasurable retirement.

There is good and bad in every horse sport.


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## Dobiegirl (5 March 2011)

Over2You have you bothered to read this thread if so you will have heard how Channel 4 say how sorry they were and payed tribute to Erics Charm.

The Industry if you bothered to check the racing Post web site you would have seen a big write up to Erics Charm and if you looked you would have seen all the posters expressing their sorrow. The trainer was too upset to be interviewed hardly the action of someone who dosnt care.

All racing fans abhor this type of accident which is exactly what it was an accident no one was to blame and it couldnt be prevented.

What ever your thoughts on racing it is a legal activity and employs thousands of people it also pays lots of money into equine research which you and other horse owners benefit from.


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## Daffodil (6 March 2011)

TelH said:



			It wasn't the same fence, Eric's Charm was in a chase, Karky Schultz in a hurdle 

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I only realised what I'd typed half an hour after I'd posted it. Sorry.


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## cefyl (6 March 2011)

minesadouble said:



			Cannot wait until next Tuesday nevertheless, Cheltenham Festival !
		
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You'll be a bit early.  Next Tuesday is the 8th March.  Festival does not start till the 15th.

Sad day indeed at Newbury, the past month has not been kind to racing at all.  Lets hope fortunes change for Cheltenham and Aintree and there are no more fatalities.


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## Over2You (6 March 2011)

minesadouble said:



			Am not being facetious here - *what exactly is a 'killer auction'??*

I'm very  much pro-racing and I do think the majority enjoy it. Our own horses, ranging from a 13.2 NF to a TB ex racer love nothing better than a real good gallop, especially when out in company and they all get competitive with one another. The principle is surely the same? *Yes, the sport is high risk but it is not the only high risk equestrian sport.*

We risk our horses every time we turn them out in the field or hack them out on the road - esecially the latter, but we still do it.

I've had a few ex-racers, my eldest daughter currently has one, her first horse since coming off ponies, and I think it is testament to the way they are treated in racing that without fail mine have all had a real trust in people and genuine affection for them. We all know horses have long memories and if these horses had been abused they would not trust and enjoy the company of humans the way they do.

If you are a horse lover it is sometimes difficult to reconcile the risk of serious injury with the pleasure of watching an equine athlete do what it was bred to do. But how can anyone watch the likes of veteran chaser Monet's Garden flying fences from outside the wings with a look of real sheer joy on his face *and say that is cruel or abusive to the horse??* Using this horse as an example also proves that not all owners are heartless and money orientaed - *his owner's must have spent a fortune fighting for this horse's life (initially against veterinary advice)* not so that he could make it back onto the track but in order for him to enjoy a hopefully long and pleasurable retirement.

There is good and bad in every horse sport.
		
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1. A killer auction is one which is frequented by killer buyers.

2. It is the *highest* risk equine sport!!  

3. Sending them hurtling over perilous obstacles from a gallop is downright cruel. As is racing them at 2-years-old. Fatalities/injuries are not accidents. They are inevitabilities!!

4. Owners like those are incredibly rare. However, his infection was a direct result of racing.


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## Dobiegirl (6 March 2011)

Overtoyou how can you say Monet Gardens infection was a direct result of racing. What are you basing this on, have you spoken to the vet directly?

I think you in your misguided way are just making things up for effect and have no basis in fact.

Why dont you post on the Racing Post site forum and see how you will be received and Erics Charm is still headline news on there.


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## Over2You (6 March 2011)

Dobiegirl said:



			Overtoyou how can you say Monet Gardens infection was a direct result of racing. What are you basing this on, have you spoken to the vet directly?

I think you in your misguided way are just making things up for effect and have no basis in fact.

Why dont you post on the Racing Post site forum and see how you will be received and Erics Charm is still headline news on there.
		
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It says on H&H news that the infection was the result of an abscess he picked up during (or just after) a race. There is *NOTHING* misguided about *ANY* of my comments. It is *FACT* that a horse's skeletal system and joints have not finished developing when they are put into training and raced at break-neck speeds. That making them jump from a flat out gallop *WILL* inevitably result in injury and death. And I would jolly well hope that Eric's Charm's death would still be receiving a mention since he was only killed yesterday!! Or is a horse being remembered the day after he/she was killed a big thing in racing? Why don't you go onto an anti-racing site. We will see how well you are received.


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## ladyt25 (6 March 2011)

Oh i was hoping beyond hope that the great that fell was ok (although didn't look good when he was just so still), he seemed to move just as the camera moved away but I guess this was maybe just spasms? Does anyone know what happened? i assume a broken neck/back although the fall itself didn't look particularly bad in iself.

I too am one of those who watches racing and although i love it i hate the thought of a horse getting injured.

I have to say to the person set against, while i do agree that the horses are started far too young (and maybe this should be changed) and there is far too much wastage of perfectly healthy horses, I do not think racing is really any worse than any other equstrian sport and in my experience race horses actually have a pretty decent life (certainly jump racers anyway) and have a heck of a lot of turnout and 'horse time'. Plus, when a horse like Monets Garden is still racing and winning in his teens you can't reall say they don't enjoy it surely? At that age they are more than capable of letting people know they don't want to do something! Do event horses hate what they do too??

Should we ride at all?? As far as the injury to Monets Garden - yes it was as a result of racing but the same injury can and does happen to horses out in fields or who are just hacked out. Believe me, after working in horse insurance for many years, the horrific injuries and illnesses general riding horses suffer are often much worse than how a racehorse may meet its end. At least, as noted, vets are there straight away and the horse does not suffer.

It'e certainly not nice, in an ideal world no horse would be injured but sadly that is not reality.


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## TelH (6 March 2011)

The spasms are involuntary and occur as a result of a broken neck (not sure if broken back does the same thing). As far as I am aware the horse is already dead at that point and knows nothing about it 

Here's hoping for a successful Cheltenham with all horses and jockeys coming back safely


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## sleepingdragon10 (6 March 2011)

Over2You said:



			It says on H&H news that the infection was the result of an abscess he picked up during (or just after) a race. There is *NOTHING* misguided about *ANY* of my comments. It is *FACT* that a horse's skeletal system and joints have not finished developing when they are put into training and raced at break-neck speeds. That making them jump from a flat out gallop *WILL* inevitably result in injury and death. And I would jolly well hope that Eric's Charm's death would still be receiving a mention since he was only killed yesterday!! Or is a horse being remembered the day after he/she was killed a big thing in racing? Why don't you go onto an anti-racing site. We will see how well you are received.
		
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Horses get abscesses all the time! Hardly a phenomenon attributable to racing only


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## amage (6 March 2011)

Such a sad loss of a lovely horse and sadder still that this tribute thread has deacended into people claiming that racing is cruel, the horses have no life and hate it etc. To those people I invite you to our yard...where the horses are treasured, where 6 weeks on myself and oh still get teary about the loss of one of our lovely horses when he spooked standing in the yard, tripped over himself and broke a leg, where our top horse a grade 1 novice hurdler gets in a complete strop if we go off racing and he is not brought! His stablemates are all the same, where all our horses are turned out to be horses every day and go paddling in the sea and loads of hacking...come to us and tell us we are being cruel and are involved in a cruel sport! You don't know what you are talking about. And if that is not enough then you should have been watching the racing at sedgefield today, where the old trooper amjad 14 years young won with his lad on the outside of the rails cheering and running the whole way up to the finish before going on to the gorse and throwing his arms around him after the finish. If any of you had ever been in the yard at the races and seen distraught staff and trainers come back after losing a horse you wouldn't dare be so cold and unfeeling. You say it is the most dangerous sport for horses...did you ever stop to think that it is the only sport that gets such publicity and you actually don't gear about the high amount of career ending injuries in other sports.


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## myhorselibby (6 March 2011)

So so sad. The way he ran on to win just two week's earlier was amazing, you'd never have guessed he was 13. He looked so well in the parade ring too yesterday. Such a shame he never got to enjoy his retirement


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## Allover (6 March 2011)

Over2you - do you really think this is the thread to discuss how you dont like racing, think it is cruel and the people involved are heartless, why not let people pay their respects.

You can always start your own thread to try and cause upset to other users.


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## Over2You (6 March 2011)

Allover said:



			Over2you - do you really think this is the thread to discuss how you dont like racing, think it is cruel and the people involved are heartless, why not let people pay their respects.

You can always start your own thread to try and cause upset to other users.
		
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I was *NOT* the first to express my disgust of the sport. I think it is a perfect thread to air my views. After all Eric's Charm is yet another victim of this so-called sport.  

Me causing upset? You pro-racing lot do it all the time. Those of us who *HATE* seeing horses regularly killed for money and entertainment, are continually upset by how you and others like you, can make up all kinds of excuses to condone the staggering amount of fatalities and horrific injuries.

Yes, horses die in other aspects of life, but nowhere near as often as in racing.


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## Whichypoohs (6 March 2011)

Eric's Charms' name had been spread around over the last couple of months. His leg seemed to break on landing (before stumbling). I question that these horses are asked to do TOO MUCH and that their legs are constantly under strain.

Did they really have to enter him in yet another race?


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## Allover (6 March 2011)

Over2You said:



			I was *NOT* the first to express my disgust of the sport. I think it is a perfect thread to air my views. After all Eric's Charm is yet another victim of this so-called sport.  

Me causing upset? You pro-racing lot do it all the time. Those of us who *HATE* seeing horses regularly killed for money and entertainment, are continually upset by how you and others like you, can make up all kinds of excuses to condone the staggering amount of fatalities and horrific injuries.

Yes, horses die in other aspects of life, but nowhere near as often as in racing.
		
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You know not whether i am pro\anti or somewhere in the middle with my views on racing. 

My point is that rather than posting on a thread where people are genuinly upset and shocked by more fatalities on the race track (because they love the sport and all it involves) why not start another thread where you can open a debate into the rights and wrongs of the sport. 

All your posts have done is get peoples backs up and it serves no purpose other than to upset other users.


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## glenruby (6 March 2011)

Actually Over2you - I would disagree, I am sure many many more horses die in the field (where you take die to be a fatal injury/heart attack etc) than in racing in any one year.


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## ladyt25 (6 March 2011)

glenruby said:



			Actually Over2you - I would disagree, I am sure many many more horses die in the field (where you take die to be a fatal injury/heart attack etc) than in racing in any one year.
		
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You are pretty spot on their. As I mentioned earlier, I saw tonnes of death/serious injury claims working for an insurance company. Our market was general riding horse NOT high valued bloodstock or racers. I would be pretty confident in saying that each day there would have been at least one fatal injury or death claim and that is just one insurer.

It is a sad fact of animal life and because racing is on TV so much we sadly see a lot more of it and it distorts the reality I think. Horse die hunting, team chasing, eventing etc and also out on the roads every single day but that isn't shown on TV.


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## alliersv1 (6 March 2011)

ladyt25 said:



			It is a sad fact of animal life and because racing is on TV so much we sadly see a lot more of it and it distorts the reality I think. Horse die hunting, team chasing, eventing etc and also out on the roads every single day but that isn't shown on TV.
		
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Absolutely agree with this.
I am saddened every time I see an accident on a racecourse, but they do not JUST happen there.
This thread was started to pay respects to a much loved and popular racehorse, not to debate the whys and wherefores of the racing industry. 
I'm not so naiive to think that this wouldn't have happened, but it is painfully predictable.


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## junglefairy (7 March 2011)

I just wanted to say, I think some people are missing the point that it is not the raw number of horses that die in racing that is at issue, but the proportion of horses that race, that die whilst racing. You cannot compare the number of horses that die in field accidents to those that die racing, as most horses are turned out, most horses are not race horses. If that makes sense.


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## Jennyharvey (7 March 2011)

I guess we just have to admit that everyone is entitled to there opinion.  Its similar to vegetarianism.  some people dont want to eat animals, some people enjoy eating animals.  fine. Some people dont like seeing animals put under pressure, confined long hours, ridden hard, whipped. some people dont see this as a problem.  
I think its all about our perception of these things.  
I like to believe in a perfect world.  Where people and animals live in harmoney.  That we do not need to exploit animals for ego or profit, or food.  But we do not live in a perfect world, so we are going to have animals exploited, humans exploited, and the earth resources exploited.  

I cant change others opinions, so all i can do is show by example.  Im happy in the knowlage that i do not get involved with something that i disagree with, either meat eating or racing.  And many others.  Thats really all i can do.  

So i will be happy knowing that maybe i can someday make a change in the world, for people and animals, but for now, all i can do is live the life i feel is best for every thing on the planet.  
If someone thinks that exploiting animals, and people, is the best thing for the planet, then thats their choice.  As long as they are happy with the choices they make.


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## Maesfen (7 March 2011)

Whichypoohs said:



			Did they really have to enter him in yet another race?
		
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Tripe.  Did you actually look at all of those horses in that race, how well they looked and at how keen they were to get on with their job?  They love their job otherwise they would have chucked in the towel a long time ago (they were all veterans in that race) and are/were all kept in training because it is what they love to do.  Believe me, trainers and owners know when a horse has had enough; all of those horses in that race were in great condition and raring to go.  If he had been a person, I'm pretty sure Eric would have wanted to go as he did, enjoying the thing he loved doing most of all.


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## applecart14 (7 March 2011)

alliersv1 said:



			Sadly this lovely old chap has been PTS this afternoon after blundering on landing and breaking a foreleg in his attempts to stay upright.
I was a real fan of his, and it was a desperately sad thing to see.
RIP old chap 

Click to expand...

He is one of many, many horses every year, much younger that have had their lives snuffed out at three and four years of age many of whom have had horrifying and agonising deaths.  Here are the latest fatalaties.  Think its a horrid sport but thats just my personal opinion and don't dislike people for their opinions and views.

http://horsedeathwatch.com/


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## Daffodil (7 March 2011)

Allover said:



			You know not whether i am pro\anti or somewhere in the middle with my views on racing. 

My point is that rather than posting on a thread where people are genuinly upset and shocked by more fatalities on the race track (because they love the sport and all it involves) why not start another thread where you can open a debate into the rights and wrongs of the sport. 

All your posts have done is get peoples backs up and it serves no purpose other than to upset other users.
		
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Quite agree.


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## Alec Swan (7 March 2011)

applecart14 said:



			He is one of many, many horses every year, much younger that have had their lives snuffed out at three and four years of age many of whom have had horrifying and agonising deaths.......
		
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I don't mean to upset the apple cart,  but in that you are wrong.  Massive injuries,  such as that sustained by EC,  are not "agonising",  except perhaps,  to humans.

I have witnessed,  and dealt with,  horses with their heads in a feed bucket, awaiting their humane end,  even though they've been standing with a leg which is beyond repair.

I suspect that when in a state of shock,  the pain level is actually negligible.  For EC,  and others,  immediate and caring assistance would have been on hand,  and correctly administered.

We *ALL* hate the fatalities,  but it's part of jump racing.  I have no idea of the correct figures,  but I suspect that less than 1% of horses,  lie down and die peacefully in their sleep.  One or two may die from a heart attack,  but the bulk are brought into this world,  at the hands of man,  and leave it,  by a similar route.  

Alec.


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## kerilli (7 March 2011)

ditto, Alec.
Years ago I found a friend's lovely horse in the field with a shattered leg. I fetched him some hay and stood with him waiting for the vet, and he calmly stood there eating. I gazed into his eyes and saw no fear, no pain. It is so easy to anthropomorphise but horses are NOT like people and do not have the awareness of consequences that we do... they are not screaming and rolling around on the floor like a footballer with a broken leg.
Oh, and having broken my arm competing, I can attest that adrenalin is a wonderful thing... I have the lowest pain threshold on the planet but felt NO pain at all until the doctor pulled it straight (now, that hurt, briefly), and then the pain started in the ambulance about 20 minutes later. Then it was very painful, but at the time, I had no idea I'd even hurt myself.
From what I've witnessed with horses, the adrenalin affects them the same way, if not more so.


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## MICHAELA8228 (7 March 2011)

I agree.......


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## oldvic (7 March 2011)

There are an increasing number of people in this world in all walks of life that feel the need to impose their beliefs on others. They are often ill-informed, always vociferous and make no effort to see the big picture.
These horses are very well cared for, after all the idea is to have them fit and healthy to be able to perform to their optimum. It may not be the way that you would look after a horse but that doesn't mean it is wrong or that the horses aren't loved. On the contrary. There are many leisure horses that have much less knowledgeable care and look far less happy with what life has dealt them.
I, personally, love racing. The majority of horses that take part love it too. If you don't share this opinion that is fine but it doesn't give you the right to ban it any more than people have a right to plant bombs or terrorise opposing cultures.


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## cefyl (7 March 2011)

Look around you, there are far far more horses and ponies in the UK living miserable, neglected lives in fields, up to their knees in mud.  NZ rugs on 24 / 7 (just what is it with the fashion for NZ rugs with neck covers even in summer?) and that includes the hairies. Or they would be hairy if the rug had not rubbed half of it off, or the coat was matted and crusted from rain rot.  Their feet probably trimmed if they are lucky a couple of times a year.  Winter food is a rotting round bale of haylage.  Water when the owners can be bothered to drag a couple of jerry cans to the field.  Their numbers far out weigh the racehorses who sadly end their life on a track, sometimes televised.  BUT at least the racehorses life till then is generally a life of care and comfort, good food, medical needs met.


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## Kadastorm (7 March 2011)

RIP Erics Charm. 

I am a great fan of NH racing, my boy is an ex NH racer. I can tell you, the yard he came from, he was extremely well looked after. The trainer is quite well known, he only has 35 horses and he knows each horse like the back of his hand. The horses are treated like royalty with the best vet, farrier, grooms and jockeys. 
It is horrible when there are fatalities but it can happen anytime, anywhere. Even leaving your horse in the field it can get a fatal injury. 

These horses do not race unless they want to. King Johns Castle at last years Grand National proved that! 

Have your opinions, share them,  but dont try and impose your beliefs on others.


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## amage (7 March 2011)

When our lad broke his leg he had no pain at all...was shuffling around stable mugging me for polos and apples and was such a bad break that he didnt even swell!


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## sleepingdragon10 (7 March 2011)

applecart14 said:



			He is one of many, many horses every year, much younger that have had their lives snuffed out at three and four years of age many of whom have had horrifying and agonising deaths.  Here are the latest fatalaties.  Think its a horrid sport but thats just my personal opinion and don't dislike people for their opinions and views.

http://horsedeathwatch.com/

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Applecart, you don't honestly believe that do you?

That really is absolute rubbish......I respect that you don't like racing, I respect the differences of opinion we have on the subject, but I think trying to use an extreme analogy to make your point is a little silly.


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## Whichypoohs (7 March 2011)

I too am disturbed by the "racing industy", especially the breeding of Throughbreds, along with the "wastage" of the majority who just don't make the grade.

Yes the winners are well cared for but what about the others?

Also the chasers of yesteryear didn't have legs that simply snapped. They were big-boned with hooves like buckets but then those horses weren't expected to do it all: they simply jumped, whereas today's chasers have to have speed as well.

No, this is a dirty industry when you take your rose coloured glasses off.


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## intouch (7 March 2011)

Whichypoohs said:



			I too am disturbed by the "racing industy", especially the breeding of Throughbreds, along with the "wastage" of the majority who just don't make the grade.

Yes the winners are well cared for but what about the others?

Also the chasers of yesteryear didn't have legs that simply snapped. They were big-boned with hooves like buckets but then those horses weren't expected to do it all: they simply jumped, whereas today's chasers have to have speed as well.

No, this is a dirty industry when you take your rose coloured glasses off.
		
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oops wrong user name


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## Jennyharvey (7 March 2011)

Whichypoohs said:



			I too am disturbed by the "racing industy", especially the breeding of Throughbreds, along with the "wastage" of the majority who just don't make the grade.

Yes the winners are well cared for but what about the others?

Also the chasers of yesteryear didn't have legs that simply snapped. They were big-boned with hooves like buckets but then those horses weren't expected to do it all: they simply jumped, whereas today's chasers have to have speed as well.

No, this is a dirty industry when you take your rose coloured glasses off.
		
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Well put


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## Spinal Tap (7 March 2011)

Whichypoohs said:



			Also the chasers of yesteryear didn't have legs that simply snapped. They were big-boned with hooves like buckets but then those horses weren't expected to do it all: they simply jumped, whereas today's chasers have to have speed as well.
		
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I agree.  The day Mill Reef's shattered leg got patched up & he went on to sire a new generation of fast, valuable but fragile horses (and make his connections a load of money in the process) was a sad day for the TB in my view.  The racing industry is set up to breed from horses who can run fast but have never proved their resilience and soundness - sometimes they have done quite the opposite and retired as babies through injury.  Breeders in other disciplines which allow AI & embryo transfer can at least make a reasonable judgement about the long term soundness of the horses they are breeding from.  Whether it's because of tradition or money I don't much care, but in my opinion the racing industry could do a lot more to safeguard the horses they profess to hold so dear.  The fact that it doesn't is enough to put me off racing.


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## Kadastorm (7 March 2011)

Whichypoohs said:



			I too am disturbed by the "racing industy", especially the breeding of Throughbreds, along with the "wastage" of the majority who just don't make the grade.

Yes the winners are well cared for but what about the others?

Also the chasers of yesteryear didn't have legs that simply snapped. They were big-boned with hooves like buckets but then those horses weren't expected to do it all: they simply jumped, whereas today's chasers have to have speed as well.

No, this is a dirty industry when you take your rose coloured glasses off.
		
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My boy certainly wasnt a winner, but he was very well looked after as was the other horse we got. i went to the racing yard, all horses very happy, all bloody well looked after. 
Why would these trainers risk their reputation but treating their horses badly?? 
Ok there may be a couple of racing yards who dont look after them well, but look at how many horses are starving, beaten, abandoned all over the country/world. 
These horses are treated like royalty compared to the majority of other horses.


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## Spinal Tap (7 March 2011)

Kadastorm said:



			My boy certainly wasnt a winner, but he was very well looked after as was the other horse we got. i went to the racing yard, all horses very happy, all bloody well looked after. 
Why would these trainers risk their reputation but treating their horses badly?? 
Ok there may be a couple of racing yards who dont look after them well, but look at how many horses are starving, beaten, abandoned all over the country/world. 
These horses are treated like royalty compared to the majority of other horses.
		
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The point the previous poster made was about breeding, not treatment, of racehorses.  This post isn't addressing their argument at all.


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## Kadastorm (7 March 2011)

i dont think the anti and pro people are going to comprimise. im not anti or pro, i can see both sides but i do think all the people saying how bad racing is and how awful the horses are treated are blind. 
Look out for a few open days to race yards and see their horses and you may well change your mind...

EDIT: Spinal tap, i accidentally forgot to add a bit in it wasnt all aimed at whichypoohs - im new to the forums, i will make mistakes . 

with regards to breeding, all horses build are different, they are all bred to be fine. again, the guys we got - not finely built. (im talking NH, flat may be different but NH need to be a bit bigger and is this thread is about a NH horse, im guessing you're all on about that) 

And wastage, well, many trainers used to give their horses away (which is how i got mine) but then anti race people gave them a bad name by saying how they 'rescued these poor race horses' and 'how badly treated they are'. 

I did think similar of Race yards before i actually knew what they did...after visiting a race yard and talking to my friend who is a jockey, i changed my mind. 

You should all go and see them before judging.


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## Amymay (8 March 2011)

It says on H&H news that the infection was the result of an abscess he picked up during (or just after) a race.
		
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My horse never raced a day in life, but got an abcess - _twice_.........


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## meandmyself (12 March 2011)

Spinal Tap said:



			The point the previous poster made was about breeding, not treatment, of racehorses.  This post isn't addressing their argument at all.
		
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Well, if you want to talk about 'wasteful' breeding, you only have to look at the Dartmoor hill ponies... they live a natural life, and yet hundreds of them are going to slaughter. There's good and bad in every industry, and it doesn't pay to generalise things. 

It's a real shame that two horses died, regardless of how anyone feels about racing.


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## pastie2 (12 March 2011)

meandmyself said:



			Well, if you want to talk about 'wasteful' breeding, you only have to look at the Dartmoor hill ponies... they live a natural life, and yet hundreds of them are going to slaughter. There's good and bad in every industry, and it doesn't pay to generalise things. 

It's a real shame that two horses died, regardless of how anyone feels about racing.
		
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Exactly my thoughts aswell. As for horses of yester year, I am old enough to remember them in the 60s and 70s. The old fashioned chasers by stallions such as Spartan General, Eboneezer, Jock Scot, Vulgan, I can remember them all. They might have had more bone and feet like buckets, but they were no less vulnerable than the modern day chaser. They broke down and suffered heart attacks just the same, big framed horses are as likely to have a catastrophic injury as the modern day racehorse. Racing is what the racehorse is bred to do, be it in this generation or yester year. I am tired of people banging on about racing, it is one of the most exhillerating magnificent sport. Without it we would have no TBs and the world would be full of cobs and bluddy warmbloods! That do circles or trek and people like me wouldnt have lovely exracers!


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## Megan_T (13 March 2011)

Over2You said:



			Then again, they had not gotten their quids worth from the two who were electrocuted.
		
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Yes - I heard they electrocuted them on purpose - you know, just for a laugh.

Get a grip.


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## Mithras (13 March 2011)

TicTac said:



			Second that opinion, except that I would definitely not come back as a race horse. I'd come back as a cat!
		
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Wow, yeah, I'd LOVE to be one of those cats, kept indoors all its life, fed dried food and never allowed to indulge its natural instincts in chasing birds or mice, because "its cruel".  Or how about a dog, kept in a tiny city centre house, walked on concrete pavements for 10 minutes twice a day and yelled at and yanked about for having too much energy?

I sincerely doubt that any of the detractors of racing have ever actually mucked out, groomed or ridden a racehorse in their lives.  

RIP Eric's Charm.


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## silu (13 March 2011)

I have followed racing for over 40 years and can see the good and bad of the sport. With the recent sad death of someone involved in Team Chasing I read that 2 horses were also killed at the same event. I was wondering why Racing gets such a bad press and yet Team Chasing seems to escape this? Admittedly I know very little about the sport. I went to watch Team Chasing once, OMG that was enough for me thank you, complete carnage and 1 horse killed, 2 others I doubt would have competed again as had done tendons. Perhaps because amatuers are involved it's ok? At least under rules the jockies do have to be of a standard whereby they are deemed competant to compete, from the standard of riding I witnessed at Team Chasing this is not the case? I maybe wrong however.


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## Over2You (14 March 2011)

Megan_T said:



			Yes - I heard they electrocuted them on purpose - you know, just for a laugh.

Get a grip.
		
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What about the other horse (Kilmurry) who died while racing on the same day as the ones who were electrocuted. What about Eric's Charm and Karky Schultz (both dying on the 5th of March)? Their deaths did NOT make headline news. The only reason Fenix Two and Marching Song made it into the headlines was the bizarreness in which they died. Horses dying in racing is far too commonplace to be big news. I also find it incredibly hypocritical that Racing UK would remove the electrocution footage from its site, but not remove videos of horses dying on the track.

I firmly stand by my statement regarding the industry being peeved that it had not gotten their money's worth out of Fenix Two and Marching Song. The former had never been raced and the other had only been raced 8-times. Yep - bleak day indeed when you are not making money out of your investments.


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## Serenity087 (14 March 2011)

A mate of mine bought an ex racer who only raced once... ZOMG, how awful for the industry...

I've been racing.  I've watched a horse try to keep up with his mates as his leg, snapped by the knee, flapped against him and every step he crumpled onto the stump.  I watched as he was wrestled to the ground and screens were put up so he could be shot with dignity.  I often wonder how many anti racers have actually seen something like that for real.

I admit, I am put off ever going racing again.  

However, for seeing that, I am not fooled by animal rights groups into thinking these horses are uncared for.  If I told you that MaClaren left their F1 racing cars in leaking garages with no services all year between seasons, you'd know I was talking rubbish, how can you win with a car no one has looked after?

The same applies to racehorses.  The aim of the game is to win.  You cannot win if your horse is abused, fed wrong, kept unhappy and does not want to race.

Despite my views, I worked for a racing yard for a couple of months and I saw none of the cruelty that is apparently there.  All the horses were happy little things who loved their hacks out!

Yes, racing is an industry bred on human greed and an insatiable need for gambling.  Yes, horses sometimes die.  But don't try and paint a picture of the whole industry being rotten and cruel to try and swing others to support a ban.  It's just your twisted fantasy.

And it's all very well saving ex racers from "killer auctions".  Who saves the welsh mountain ponies, the dartmoor hill ponies, the new forest ponies, the shetland ponies, the gypsy ponies... I've been at Beeston when the killer buyers were in... Not a racehorse in sight.

But is it really that bad?  I mean, cows/sheep/pigs don't get the choice of retirement when they go for "killer auctions" do they.... and horses aren't killed just to spite teenage pony lovers!!!


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## Kadastorm (14 March 2011)

^ So true...
I went to the new forest sales where so many foals, yearlings and obviously older horses went to the meat man. 
Our two best welsh cobs came off of the meat lorry, one in foal and had a foal at foot. They were pulled off the lorry just in time. 
More native breeds go for meat than race horses...
As i said, most racehorses are treated like royalty.


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## alliersv1 (14 March 2011)

Serenity087 said:



			A mate of mine bought an ex racer who only raced once... ZOMG, how awful for the industry...

I've been racing.  I've watched a horse try to keep up with his mates as his leg, snapped by the knee, flapped against him and every step he crumpled onto the stump.  I watched as he was wrestled to the ground and screens were put up so he could be shot with dignity.  I often wonder how many anti racers have actually seen something like that for real.

I admit, I am put off ever going racing again.  

However, for seeing that, I am not fooled by animal rights groups into thinking these horses are uncared for.  If I told you that MaClaren left their F1 racing cars in leaking garages with no services all year between seasons, you'd know I was talking rubbish, how can you win with a car no one has looked after?

The same applies to racehorses.  The aim of the game is to win.  You cannot win if your horse is abused, fed wrong, kept unhappy and does not want to race.

Despite my views, I worked for a racing yard for a couple of months and I saw none of the cruelty that is apparently there.  All the horses were happy little things who loved their hacks out!

Yes, racing is an industry bred on human greed and an insatiable need for gambling.  Yes, horses sometimes die.  But don't try and paint a picture of the whole industry being rotten and cruel to try and swing others to support a ban.  It's just your twisted fantasy.

And it's all very well saving ex racers from "killer auctions".  Who saves the welsh mountain ponies, the dartmoor hill ponies, the new forest ponies, the shetland ponies, the gypsy ponies... I've been at Beeston when the killer buyers were in... Not a racehorse in sight.

But is it really that bad?  I mean, cows/sheep/pigs don't get the choice of retirement when they go for "killer auctions" do they.... and horses aren't killed just to spite teenage pony lovers!!!
		
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What a well balanced reply!

I can't believe this is still rattling on!
Oh well, with Cheltenham round the corner, I'm sure there will be plenty more controversy.
Lets just hope they all come home safe and sound eh?


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## applecart14 (17 March 2011)

Jennyharvey said:



			I wonder how many more horses will die before people realise that racing is no longer the sport of kings, but of the egotistical and greedy.  The sooner its banned, the better.  
RIP wee pet.
		
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Here's your answer
http://horsedeathwatch.com/

I agree.  I think it is very sad and very cruel.


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## nikkiportia (17 March 2011)

applecart14 said:



			Here's your answer
http://horsedeathwatch.com/

I agree.  I think it is very sad and very cruel.
		
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Applecart, you have been posting that link for years in every racing thread that crops up! It's like a morbid fascination!!
 Lets get some perspective here shall we? Hows about animal aid do something like list every horse that is killed in the paddock, on the road, out showjumping, out eventing or team chasing etc etc. What about all the horses that get put to sleep through injury caused by all the other sports and hobbies we use them for? 
Even better, the best idea would be that people stop concentrating on everything that dies and look more towards the living!!! Every racehorse has an owner, a trainer, a breeder, a work rider, a groom, and a whole list of people who have cared for it in it's life. Do not be niave enough to think that connections do not care if the horse dies. 
It's sad, but it's life, and NOBODY wants to see them fall. Please stop being so morbid, these horses are not forgotten I can assure you. I'd be more concerned about the animals that end up neglected and un cared for than those who die quickly.


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## Orangehorse (17 March 2011)

How I agree with this Nikki.  Instead of mourning every horse that is injured or dies racing the energy would be better spent on helping the living and retired racehorses to have nice new homes, or campaigning about live horse transport from Russia and Argentina to the slaughterhouses of Italy.


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## alliersv1 (17 March 2011)

nikkiportia said:



			Applecart, you have been posting that link for years in every racing thread that crops up! It's like a morbid fascination!!
		
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Agreed
They are pathetic and ghoulish. I notice that today they were ready with the cameras to catch the first equine fatality at Cheltenham, ready to post it up quick smart. 
I bet they were getting worried after two incident free days that nothing was ACTUALLY going to die. Imagine that!


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## nikkiportia (17 March 2011)

alliersv1 said:



			Agreed
They are pathetic and ghoulish. I notice that today they were ready with the cameras to catch the first equine fatality at Cheltenham, ready to post it up quick smart. 
I bet they were getting worried after two incident free days that nothing was ACTUALLY going to die. Imagine that!
		
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I couldn't agree more!! It is a grim hobby of theirs. I find it quite sickening for people to be so obsessed with death.


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## alliersv1 (17 March 2011)

nikkiportia said:



			I couldn't agree more!! It is a grim hobby of theirs. I find it quite sickening for people to be so obsessed with death.
		
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They have a very one sided agenda.
Yes, there are bad things about racing, just as there are in all aspects of horse (and other animal) sport, but there are many worse cases of horse abuse going on than in the racing industry.
At the risk of falling into the "obsessed with death" category,  I do actually believe that deaths of racehorses should be publicly documented, as we need to know the fates of these animals, but to glorify the deaths in such a way for their own twisted ends is deeply unsavoury.
http://racehorsememories.moonfruit.com (not sure if I am allowed to post a link?)
This website does the same sort of thing, but is populated by racing fans, and horse lovers, who wish to document deaths, and pay tribute to horses that have died whilst in training, but also lists retirements, and has a "where are they now" section, for people to find out about the whereabouts of retired favourites. 
I suppose it is the "fluffy" racehorse deathwatch..


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## nikkiportia (17 March 2011)

Thats a much better site! I totally agree that they should not be forgotton, and tribute should be paid, even if it is just their name listed. Thanks for the link, much more tasteful and the way that it should be done.


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## alliersv1 (17 March 2011)

nikkiportia said:



			Thats a much better site! I totally agree that they should not be forgotton, and tribute should be paid, even if it is just their name listed. Thanks for the link, much more tasteful and the way that it should be done.
		
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You're welcome.


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## sizz (18 March 2011)

Blimey this has taken me ages to read through ! there seem to be a few anti - horses doing anything that might be remotely enjoyable people on this forum subject !  I assume that they don't keep any animals at all as I guess they would deem that as cruel.  I am afraid that me and my horse are adrenalin junkies, best drug in the world and very addictive ! Although adrenalin does have its risks, life would be so boring without it.  I suppose when I have to give up riding  I could spend more time on the forums and wind people up, the ones who have no idea about horses I mean !  RIP all those brave gallant horses who gave us so much pleasure.


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## applecart14 (18 March 2011)

nikkiportia said:



			Thanks for the link, much more tasteful and the way that it should be done.
		
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There is nothing 'tasteful' about horses severing tendons, fracturing tendons, having fatal heart attacks or breaking necks, no matter how you dress it up. I am just showing the other side of the coin to those who are a bit naive about racing (as I used to be).  There are a large number of deaths on British racecourses every year not including all the horses that die are have to be pts in the name of 'sport' whilst in training before even reaching the race course.  And those that are spent by the age of five or six from racing injuries.  So lets not get too judgemental about my post please.

And to the poster that said I use this Racehorse deathwatch link everytime there is a racing post, I think I have used it three times in total over about 2 years of posting on this site so lets get things in perspective.

I am entitled to my opinion as is everyone else and this forum is to let people who show an interest in horses express their opinion.  Its called freedom of speech and I am proud to be able to express the views that I wish to express even if it does not 'conform' or is 'agreeable' to the majority.

Thank you.


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## applecart14 (18 March 2011)

kerilli said:



			ditto, Alec.
Years ago I found a friend's lovely horse in the field with a shattered leg. I fetched him some hay and stood with him waiting for the vet, and he calmly stood there eating. I gazed into his eyes and saw no fear, no pain. It is so easy to anthropomorphise but horses are NOT like people and do not have the awareness of consequences that we do... they are not screaming and rolling around on the floor like a footballer with a broken leg.
Oh, and having broken my arm competing, I can attest that adrenalin is a wonderful thing... I have the lowest pain threshold on the planet but felt NO pain at all until the doctor pulled it straight (now, that hurt, briefly), and then the pain started in the ambulance about 20 minutes later. Then it was very painful, but at the time, I had no idea I'd even hurt myself.
From what I've witnessed with horses, the adrenalin affects them the same way, if not more so.
		
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Alec and Kerillia I agree with you that not all broken legs are agonising but some injuries are.  My youngster had a complete fracture of his tibia with the bone sticking through the skin but mangaged to have his ears forward and whinnied at me whilst standing patiently for the vet.  Adrenalin is a wonderful thing and fortunately kicked in for my horse, but not all horses are so lucky.

I am entitled to my opinion and sorry if it doesn't agree with the rest of you racing people, but that's life.


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## alliersv1 (18 March 2011)

applecart14 said:



			I am entitled to my opinion and sorry if it doesn't agree with the rest of you racing people, but that's life.
		
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You absolutely are entitled to your opinion. That is not in dispute.
My problem is not with you disliking the racing industry. I have a love/hate relationship with it myself as it goes. 
My issue is with Animal Aid and the way they sensationalise incidents to promote their own ends. It is the extreme face of animal rights and I don't like it. That is MY opinion, and I am entitled to that too.


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## nikkiportia (18 March 2011)

Applecart, I have absolutely no issue with you having an anti racing opinion. Each to their own. 
But horses will and do injure themselves fatally everyday. I see in your sig that you are jumping a horse, where is the site which publicly names every single horse which has died due to severed tendons and fractures caused by hobby horses jumping in a school??? How would you feel if somebody pointed that site out to you every time you jumped your horse and enjoyed it?
That is the point I am trying to make. 
It is tragic, it is sad, and I can assure you that tears are shed for them. I just think that 'deathwatch' uses these tragic losses to prove a point rather than to honour them, and that is the part which leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
Thats all I have to say on the matter. Thanks.


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## alliersv1 (18 March 2011)

nikkiportia said:



			Applecart, I have absolutely no issue with you having an anti racing opinion. Each to their own. 
But horses will and do injure themselves fatally everyday. I see in your sig that you are jumping a horse, where is the site which publicly names every single horse which has died due to severed tendons and fractures caused by hobby horses jumping in a school??? How would you feel if somebody pointed that site out to you every time you jumped your horse and enjoyed it?
That is the point I am trying to make. 
It is tragic, it is sad, and I can assure you that tears are shed for them. I just think that 'deathwatch' uses these tragic losses to prove a point rather than to honour them, and that is the part which leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
Thats all I have to say on the matter. Thanks.
		
Click to expand...

Said far more eloquently than I managed to say!!

Good points, well made. 
Stepping away from this too now. Got Cheltenham to watch!


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## sizz (18 March 2011)

Not wanting to upset the 'applecart' but am I correct in assuming that the people that are anti- racing have never worked in racing.  Just as anti-hunt supporters have probably never gone hunting ? Is it really about their concern for animal welfare (which I think is unfounded in this case) or a dislike for the people who are involved in what they see as rich peoples sport ?


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## applecart14 (20 March 2011)

sizz said:



			Not wanting to upset the 'applecart' but am I correct in assuming that the people that are anti- racing have never worked in racing.  Just as anti-hunt supporters have probably never gone hunting ? Is it really about their concern for animal welfare (which I think is unfounded in this case) or a dislike for the people who are involved in what they see as rich peoples sport ?
		
Click to expand...

I don't support animal aid,I am not a bunny hugger or anything else.  Someone at the start of this post (it may have been the OP who knows?) asked a question about how a horse was following an accident on the racetrack. Its been so long ago that I have slept since then, many times in fact.  The point of the original post seems to be lost after everyone has slagged of bunny hugger me!  I gave them the animal aids racehorse deathwatch website details so they could find out for themselves.  End of.


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## pip6 (21 March 2011)

Not remotely interested in getting in debate.

RIP Eric's Charm & all other horses (racing or not), who give themselves whilst in service. I hope when I go it's doing something I love.


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