# Horse acting different to when I viewed her...



## Charlotteclarke (19 May 2020)

Hi all,

I’m a first time buyer, I’ve previously ridden for 12 years and also part loaned.

I purchased my now TB mare 6 years old the end of last month.  
Needless to say, she is acting completely different in my care to how she was when I viewed her.
I saw her owner mount her and ride no issues. I mounted from the floor and rode with no issues. Would pick her feet up no problem to be picked out.

I have now ridden her twice, both times she has threw me off by no fault of my own. I mounted her, she bronked and I fell onto concrete taking all the pressure on my back. She kick out her back feet when trying to pick them out, she also bronks / rears when being lunged.

She also reversed and bucked and I ended up again falling on my back. I’ve changed her bit, checked her saddle no issues at all.

I’m in Absolute shock at how she is because she was not like this on the videos and when I went to view her.

I really do not know what to do, I’ve approached the seller about this and she’s said she’s never been unseated by her and no issues at all. ( I find it hard to believe that she’s all of a sudden acting like this)

does anyone have any advice on what I can do???


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## IrishMilo (19 May 2020)

If you bought from a dealer you have 30 days to return her and get a full refund - usually easier said than done.

Second option - sell her.

Third option - get a pro to ride her for you to see what happens with consistent schooling and someone with a sticky bum.

Whatever you do, don't get back on her yourself again - it sounds like you're very close to seriously hurting yourself.

Is she an ex-racer? They are usually funny about getting on from the floor as they've only ever had someone chucked up.


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## shortstuff99 (19 May 2020)

Did you have her vetted and did you have bloods taken? If so have the bloods run ASAP.


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## Cortez (19 May 2020)

You need to talk to someone who can asses what is going on. It is not at all unusual for horses to act differently when they move to a new home and different management, everything has changed, from feed to exercise level to riding style.


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## Charlotteclarke (19 May 2020)

Thanks so much!
And she didn’t make the times so she didn’t have a racing career.
I’m just completely baffled because I mounted her from the floor so did the seller with no issues at all. I’ve seen her on videos being jumped / hacked out and she isn’t bothered at all.
she constantly backs up now when being mounted, I can’t distract her with anything.
I’m trying to get a physio therapist to come and check her over, because I can’t understand why she’s doing it.
It’s becoming so dangerous the way she’s being, it’s knocked my confidence so much.
I’m so stuck on what to do, I won’t get back on her until she’s been checked but the seller was private and she won’t accept her back.
Like I said I don’t get how she’s gone From a chilled, happy TB to now being so dangerous when being lunged and ridden


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## Charlotteclarke (19 May 2020)

shortstuff99 said:



			Did you have her vetted and did you have bloods taken? If so have the bloods run ASAP.
		
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Hi, 
No I didn’t get her vetted as the seller provided me with all her vet records and I was so happy with the way she was on the ground, stable manners and being ridden. There’s just been a huge change in her but everything’s been kept the same, her feed and turnout.


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## Cortez (19 May 2020)

As I said above, you need to get someone to help you, whether that's a professional horse trainer or a riding instructor, they will be able to asses what the problem is before you go down the route of expensive medical investigations / tack refits, etc. It rather sounds to me that she is getting too much feed & not enough exercise, and possibly unclear boundaries. You do sound rather inexperienced, please get some help before you get seriously hurt.


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## Charlotteclarke (19 May 2020)

Cortez said:



			You need to talk to someone who can asses what is going on. It is not at all unusual for horses to act differently when they move to a new home and different management, everything has changed, from feed to exercise level to riding style.
		
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Thank you, I’ve contacted a physiotherapist to come and have a look at her. I’ve kept her feed / exercise / turnout the same for her, she’s lovely in her stable but as soon as I try to ride or mount she’s really dangerous nothing at all like she was before I bought her


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## PictusSweetDreams (19 May 2020)

Might be worth having her checked for ulcers especially if she’s from a racing background. The stress of moving/selling new environment etc could have given her a flare up. They act bizarrely when they have ulcers


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## Pinkvboots (19 May 2020)

Agree with all the above but are your sure the saddle is ok? Has her routine changed much compared to her previous owner? Things like feed and turnout can have a massive impact as can the disruption of a new home.

I do find it a bit odd that the seller has not even offered to help, if it were me I would have wanted to see what the horse was doing unless of course they are trying to hide something.


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## Pinkvboots (19 May 2020)

We cross posted so didn't see your last reply, I think I would get a vet out and agree with above about mentioning ulcers some can really react to them.


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## skint1 (19 May 2020)

That's a marked change in such a short space of time, have you checked the saddle fit?  Maybe get a vet or physio to check her for pain?


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## Charlotteclarke (19 May 2020)

Pinkvboots said:



			Agree with all the above but are your sure the saddle is ok? Has her routine changed much compared to her previous owner? Things like feed and turnout can have a massive impact as can the disruption of a new home.

I do find it a bit odd that the seller has not even offered to help, if it were me I would have wanted to see what the horse was doing unless of course they are trying to hide something.
		
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hi,

yeah her saddle is absolutely fine and was fitted to her, I’ve also seen the Videos of her being ridden in this saddle, jumped and backed out and she was fine.

Im  shocked at how the sellers being with me, she’s not asked to come and look / help she’s being very defensive and not interested. She also keeps mentioning the contract I signed when I bought her, saying I bought her ‘as is’ which I did, but she is not behaving the same as she did when viewed and on the videos. I’ve had witnesses each time I’ve fallen and I’m not doing anything to provoke the behaviour. I’m just shocked!


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## TheMule (19 May 2020)

Charlotteclarke said:



			Hi all,

I’m a first time buyer, I’ve previously ridden for 12 years and also part loaned.

I purchased my now TB mare 6 years old the end of last month.
Needless to say, she is acting completely different in my care to how she was when I viewed her.
I saw her owner mount her and ride no issues. I mounted from the floor and rode with no issues. Would pick her feet up no problem to be picked out.

I have now ridden her twice, both times she has threw me off by no fault of my own. I mounted her, she bronked and I fell onto concrete taking all the pressure on my back. She kick out her back feet when trying to pick them out, she also bronks / rears when being lunged.

She also reversed and bucked and I ended up again falling on my back. I’ve changed her bit, checked her saddle no issues at all.

I’m in Absolute shock at how she is because she was not like this on the videos and when I went to view her.

I really do not know what to do, I’ve approached the seller about this and she’s said she’s never been unseated by her and no issues at all. ( I find it hard to believe that she’s all of a sudden acting like this)

does anyone have any advice on what I can do???
		
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You say her exercise hasn't changed but you've only ridden her twice and both times you fell off?
She needs a vet, not a physiotherapist (who shouldn’t treat her without vet permission anyway)
Did you buy the saddle with her?


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## Charlotteclarke (19 May 2020)

skint1 said:



			That's a marked change in such a short space of time, have you checked the saddle fit?  Maybe get a vet or physio to check her for pain?
		
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I’ve booked a physio appointment for next week, so hopefully I’ll get an answer


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## Charlotteclarke (19 May 2020)

TheMule said:



			You say her exercise hasn't changed but you've only ridden her twice and both times you fell off?
She needs a vet, not a physiotherapist (who shouldn’t treat her without vet treatment anyway)
Did you buy the saddle with her?
		
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Hi, she was only taken on a hack and lunged, that’s all I’ve tried to do with her and it’s just completely back fired. Yes the saddle came with her which was fitted to her


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## shortstuff99 (19 May 2020)

Did the saddle come with the horse? Even taking in to account moving to a new home and change in routine that's a very dramatic change to me. Now coupled with the info of no vetting, owner unwilling to help and a contract saying sold as seen I'm wondering if there is more going on here.


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## Ownedby4horses (19 May 2020)

It is not a long time for a new horse to settle, she could be very sensitive and dont forget that a change of home is very unsettling. All of a sudden the horse has lost everything that is familiar to them.  

Get the saddle checked by a professional asap, dont just rely on the fact that it came with her and youve seen her ridden in with no issues. 

You sound inexperienced and you need help asap. Don't ride until the saddle is checked and I would also get the vet out to give the horse a full workover, to see if they can find anything.


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## wren123 (19 May 2020)

Yes I wonder to whether the previous owner has had problems, the referring to the sold as seen contract  you've signed and not offering to help does suggest that.
Please, please for your own safety get the vet out and the saddle checked ASAP.


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## Charlotteclarke (19 May 2020)

shortstuff99 said:



			Did the saddle come with the horse? Even taking in to account moving to a new home and change in routine that's a very dramatic change to me. Now coupled with the info of no vetting, owner unwilling to help and a contract saying sold as seen I'm wondering if there is more going on here.
		
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Hi, she has moved to a new stable however she is settled as she’s calm in her stable and when being turned out. It’s when trying to mount and ride her behaviour is completely different to when I viewed and rode her. She was perfectly capable of being ridden and mounted. I’m petrified of trying to ride her again in case I’m seriously hurt. I’ve booked a physio appointment to see whether there’s any indication of pain to her spine / hocks. I’m just really concerned that there is a Medical Issue underlying with her as I can’t pin point anything else that would provoke her to act the way she is x


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## Pearlsasinger (19 May 2020)

So if her behaviour has changed since you rode her in her previous home, what else has changed?  Have you bought a new saddle?  If so get a different saddle fitter to check it.  There are all sorts of things that could be causing the problem but saddle fit is the first thing I would check.

If you bought her tack with her, are you certain that you have the saddle you rode her in at the viewing?  This wouldn't be the first time a swap had been done.  If you are sure that it is the same saddle please get a vet to check her, no point messing about with a physio who should need a vet referral anyway.


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## Charlotteclarke (19 May 2020)

She won’t allow me to pick out her hind feet, she kicks out. I put this down to me being new to her and her trying it on but I honestly cannot pick out her back feet. I’ve not purchased a new saddle as the one she came with was fitted to her. I’ll definitely get the saddle checked. I was sent videos 2 weeks prior to picking her up being hacked out in the same saddle and she was calm and rode nicely. This is why I’m so confused as to what’s going on


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## Charlotteclarke (19 May 2020)

Charlotteclarke said:



			She won’t allow me to pick out her hind feet, she kicks out. I put this down to me being new to her and her trying it on but I honestly cannot pick out her back feet. I’ve not purchased a new saddle as the one she came with was fitted to her. I’ll definitely get the saddle checked. I was sent videos 2 weeks prior to picking her up being hacked out in the same saddle and she was calm and rode nicely. This is why I’m so confused as to what’s going on
		
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her feed has stayed the same, same brand etc. Same amount each day as the previous owner gave her. Her temperament is completely different but in the stable / when being turned out she is lovely!


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## Charlotteclarke (19 May 2020)

wren123 said:



			Yes I wonder to whether the previous owner has had problems, the referring to the sold as seen contract  you've signed and not offering to help does suggest that.
Please, please for your own safety get the vet out and the saddle checked ASAP.
		
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Thank you very much, I’m going to get everything checked before I try again. I do appreciate your help


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## Charlotteclarke (19 May 2020)

Pearlsasinger said:



			So if her behaviour has changed since you rode her in her previous home, what else has changed?  Have you bought a new saddle?  If so get a different saddle fitter to check it.  There are all sorts of things that could be causing the problem but saddle fit is the first thing I would check.

If you bought her tack with her, are you certain that you have the saddle you rode her in at the viewing?  This wouldn't be the first time a swap had been done.  If you are sure that it is the same saddle please get a vet to check her, no point messing about with a physio who should need a vet referral anyway.
		
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Hi yes the saddle is 110% the same on as I rode her in and in all the videos x


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## Elf On A Shelf (19 May 2020)

Might be worth getting a blood test done for sedatives and pain relief. Trouble is it might be too late as withdrawal is usually 10-14 days so it might not show up.


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## Pearlsasinger (19 May 2020)

Charlotteclarke said:



			her feed has stayed the same, same brand etc. Same amount each day as the previous owner gave her. Her temperament is completely different but in the stable / when being turned out she is lovely!
		
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Is she getting the same amount of feed?  If so, cut it right back as she isn't being worked much now.  What feed is she having?


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## Charlotteclarke (19 May 2020)

Elf On A Shelf said:



			Might be worth getting a blood test done for sedatives and pain relief. Trouble is it might be too late as withdrawal is usually 10-14 days so it might not show up.
		
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hi, thanks so much! I’ll give the vet a call


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## JFTDWS (19 May 2020)

Being "calm" in the stable / field isn't the same as being "settled" - often the contrary can be true, to an extent.  

The feed being the same is irrelevant if the horse gets less work.  The saddle being the same is irrelevant if you've changed other aspects of her tack - thicker saddle pad - or if it's never really fitted her in the first place.  

The poor animal may be buggered, but for that you'll need a vet.  It would have been cheaper and safer to have her vetted before purchase, but it's a bit late for that.  The physio shouldn't treat her without the OK from the vet - if they don't ask for that, I'd be suspicious of their credentials.


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## Charlotteclarke (19 May 2020)

Pearlsasinger said:



			Is she getting the same amount of feed?  If so, cut it right back as she isn't being worked much now.  What feed is she having?
		
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hi, yes she’s on the exact same. She’s on baileys high fibre nuggets, Pegasus nuts, bro chop herbi mix and solution mash


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## HeyMich (19 May 2020)

Backing up when mounted, and refusing to pick up her back feet are both red flags if you ask me. It could be back/SI/stifle/hock pain - I'd get a vet out asap for a lameness work-up.

I'd also call the BHS legal service (free if you are a gold member) and ask where you stand with getting a refund from the previous owners, as it sounds like she was sold with known problems. How long did they own her? 

Good luck.

.


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## Charlotteclarke (19 May 2020)

JFTDWS said:



			Being "calm" in the stable / field isn't the same as being "settled" - often the contrary can be true, to an extent. 

The feed being the same is irrelevant if the horse gets less work.  The saddle being the same is irrelevant if you've changed other aspects of her tack - thicker saddle pad - or if it's never really fitted her in the first place. 

The poor animal may be buggered, but for that you'll need a vet.  It would have been cheaper and safer to have her vetted before purchase, but it's a bit late for that.  The physio shouldn't treat her without the OK from the vet - if they don't ask for that, I'd be suspicious of their credentials.
		
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thanks so much I appreciate your help. I’ll contact the vet today and arrange a visit


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## PictusSweetDreams (19 May 2020)

Yeah I’d definitely mention scoping her to the vet. Previous owner could have been managing ulcers (if she had them) and not told so not to put you off buying and now obviously this will have changed with you...just screams ulcers to me sorry!


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## Charlotteclarke (19 May 2020)

HeyMich said:



			Backing up when mounted, and refusing to pick up her back feet are both red flags if you ask me. It could be back/SI/stifle/hock pain - I'd get a vet out asap for a lameness work-up.

I'd also call the BHS legal service (free if you are a gold member) and ask where you stand with getting a refund from the previous owners, as it sounds like she was sold with known problems. How long did they own her?

Good luck.

.
		
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Hello,

they had her for 2 years and stated she has never had any issues except mud rash due to bad turnout conditions. No issues with anything I’ve said I’ve had issues with. I’ll give them a ring but she’s refusing to acknowledge any issues I have and keeps mentioning ‘you signed for the horse as is’ I did and she was rideable etc and that’s not how she is now I can’t even mount her. Thank you


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## Charlotteclarke (19 May 2020)

PictusSweetDreams said:



			Yeah I’d definitely mention scoping her to the vet. Previous owner could have been managing ulcers (if she had them) and not told so not to put you off buying and now obviously this will have changed with you...just screams ulcers to me sorry!
		
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Thanks so much, don’t be sorry I appreciate your help x


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## JFTDWS (19 May 2020)

Let's leave the diagnoses to the vet 

Good luck - hopefully it's something simple and fixable for you both.


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## Charlotteclarke (19 May 2020)

JFTDWS said:



			Let's leave the diagnoses to the vet 

Good luck - hopefully it's something simple and fixable for you both.
		
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Thanks so much


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## PictusSweetDreams (19 May 2020)

Good luck, I hope it’s something you can fix and you can start enjoying your new mare.


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## OrangeAndLemon (19 May 2020)

Mine undergoes a personality change when moving yards, he goes from calm and sedate to everything being on high alert and everything at the most excited pace he can manage. Exactly as you describe, he wouldn't let me pick his feet up, he was strong to lead and when I'd go to mount he'd turn and face me.

The first time it happened I lost my  confidence a bit and he was even worse with me. I got a trainer to work with me on groundwork, pony changed after 3 or 4 sessions, back to his normal self. The second time we moved it took just one training session but this time I booked it for soon after our move. This third move I was able to do it myself with what I'd learnt previously. 

Don't underestimate the impact of moving yards on your horse.

As others have said, you need to get the saddle checked and get a vet check.


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## Tihamandturkey (19 May 2020)

So sorry you are going through this - echo everything previously said re vet saddle check etc.

I would def cut hard feed back asap and check what % protein the Pegasus nuts are also.


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## Pearlsasinger (19 May 2020)

Charlotteclarke said:



			hi, yes she’s on the exact same. She’s on baileys high fibre nuggets, Pegasus nuts, bro chop herbi mix and solution mash
		
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And you have ridden her twice in the time you have had her?  Take her off all that feed, give her a *tiny* amount of one of those, if you must and you will probably see a vast difference soon


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## Dusty 123 (19 May 2020)

to Me it sounds like the previous owners new the horses had problems. I would get the vet to check her out there could  be underlying health problem.


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## Charlotteclarke (19 May 2020)

OrangeAndLemon said:



			Mine undergoes a personality change when moving yards, he goes from calm and sedate to everything being on high alert and everything at the most excited pace he can manage. Exactly as you describe, he wouldn't let me pick his feet up, he was strong to lead and when I'd go to mount he'd turn and face me.

The first time it happened I lost my  confidence a bit and he was even worse with me. I got a trainer to work with me on groundwork, pony changed after 3 or 4 sessions, back to his normal self. The second time we moved it took just one training session but this time I booked it for soon after our move. This third move I was able to do it myself with what I'd learnt previously.

Don't underestimate the impact of moving yards on your horse.

As others have said, you need to get the saddle checked and get a vet check.
		
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hi, thanks so much for this. I’ve booked the vet to come and check her over for lameness etc. Hopefully I’ll get an answer soon. I’ll keep everyone updated x


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## Upthecreek (19 May 2020)

Is she getting plenty of turnout with other horses? Have you tried mounting from a block? Is she in season? There could be many reasons for her change in behaviour. Some horses are extremely sensitive to change and it could be that she is overwhelmed, particularly if her new environment is very different to her previous home. The behaviour is obviously fairly extreme and has happened more than once so as others have said, getting the vet out would be the best place to start. I would also suggest ringing the BHS legal helpline sooner rather than later for advice on your rights as a buyer. It’s a shame you didn’t have her vetted and get bloods taken because if  the vet finds an issue you will struggle to prove that the seller was aware.


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## Charlotteclarke (19 May 2020)

Dusty 123 said:



			to Me it sounds like the previous owners new the horses had problems. I would get the vet to check her out there could  be underlying health problem.
		
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Hi,

thanks so much I’ve booked the vet to come out and assess her next week. I’ll keep everyone updated because I really do appreciate everyone helping x


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## Charlotteclarke (19 May 2020)

Upthecreek said:



			Is she getting plenty of turnout with other horses? Have you tried mounting from a block? Is she in season? There could be many reasons for her change in behaviour. Some horses are extremely sensitive to change and it could be that she is overwhelmed, particularly if her new environment is very different to her previous home. The behaviour is obviously fairly extreme and has happened more than once so as others have said, getting the vet out would be the best place to start. I would also suggest ringing the BHS legal helpline sooner rather than later for advice on your rights as a buyer. It’s a shame you didn’t have her vetted and get bloods taken because if  the vet finds an issue you will struggle to prove that the seller was aware.
		
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Hi yes I’ve booked the vet to come and assess her next week. I’ll give them a ring, I feel like kicking myself now about the PPE. I was really happy with her and her vet records but now I know I should have got it done. Thank you again


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## Charlotteclarke (19 May 2020)

Pearlsasinger said:



			And you have ridden her twice in the time you have had her?  Take her off all that feed, give her a *tiny* amount of those, if you must and you will probably see a vast difference soon
		
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I’ll try this and keep you updated once again thanks so much for your help. Yes I’ve tried twice in 2/3 weeks as the first fall scared me I got back on for 5 mins and then took her back to the stable. Then 2 days ago she bronked as I mounted her and I fell onto the concrete on my back so I won’t be getting back on until the vet has checked her over x


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## Ambers Echo (19 May 2020)

If you are within 30 days, send her back. She may or may not have been missold but she is unsuitable and you have a right to return her. You may only get a credit note from the dealer not a refund but surely that is better than immediately launching into a vet work up up, scopes and goodness knows what else.


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## Charlotteclarke (19 May 2020)

Ambers Echo said:



			If you are within 30 days, send her back. She may or may not have been missold but she is unsuitable and you have a right to return her. You may only get a credit note from the dealer not a refund but surely that is better than immediately launching into a vet work up up, scopes and goodness knows what else.
		
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Hi amber, she is a private seller am I still able to do that? X


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## Pinkvboots (19 May 2020)

I think vet is the way to go please let us know how you get on.

I would also get a good saddle fitter recommendation and get it checked again, I have seen new horses come with saddles that really don't fit, my own included was sold to me with a saddle that had a twisted tree.


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## Ambers Echo (19 May 2020)

Ah no you have fewer rights in that case. A dealer has to take back regardless. A private seller only has to take back if she was missold. However you may have a case if you can evidence that she was sold as a horse who was easy to deal with and dd not buck/bronc. I assume you have texts, the ad etc.

I personally would write to say she was not as described and you are sending her back as soon as possible as missold and you would rather avoid a court case. Then see what happens. If she refuses obviously then you have to do right by the horse but I don't think horses should do what this horse is doing regardless of saddle/change/etc. Most well mannered and genuine horses do not attempt to kick people who pick their feet out or bronc the second soneone's bum hits the saddle even if something is uncomfortable. They generally warn first and have a bit more tolerance. I would not want a horse like that and you did not think you were buying a horse like that.

Too many sellers just lie and people don't hold them accountable because they feel responsible for the horse and so it goes on.

I'm all for letting horses settle, giving them time etc but you have found yourself with a horse you can't ride and who needs a vet and a pro! That is not fair on you and I don't believe for a second that this horse has never been difficult before.


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## Charlotteclarke (19 May 2020)

Pinkvboots said:



			I think vet is the way to go please let us know how you get on.

I would also get a good saddle fitter recommendation and get it checked again, I have seen new horses come with saddles that really don't fit, my own included was sold to me with a saddle that had a twisted tree.
		
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I’ll definitely update everyone. Thank you all once again so much for your help x


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## IrishMilo (19 May 2020)

It sounds like your horse has gone from someone quite experienced and capable, where it felt secure and in charge of, to a new, much more novice rider. I know LOTS of horses who would turn into a nightmare without really firm and confident handling/riding.

Get someone with more experience to come and see what's going on before you spend what is going to be a lot of money investigating everything and hoping something sticks.


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## Charlotteclarke (19 May 2020)

Ambers Echo said:



			Ah no you have fewer rights in that case. A dealer has to take back regardless. A private seller only has to take back if she was missold. However you may have a case if you can evidence that she was sold as a horse who was easy to deal with and dd not buck/bronc. I assume you have texts, the ad etc.

I personally would write to say she was not as described and you are sending her back as soon as possible as missold and you would rather avoid a court case. Then see what happens. If she refuses obviously then you have to do right by the horse but I don't think horses should do what this horse is doing regardless of saddle/change/etc. Most well mannered and genuine horses do not attempt to kick people who pick their feet out or bronc the second soneone's bum hits the saddle even if something is uncomfortable. They generally warn first and have a bit more tolerance. I would not want a horse like that and you did not think you were buying a horse like that.

Too many sellers just lie and people don't hold them accountable because they feel responsible for the horse and so it goes on.

I'm all for letting horses settle, giving them time etc but you have found yourself with a horse you can't ride and who needs a vet and a pro! That is not fair on you and I don't believe for a second that this horse has never been difficult before.
		
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Thank you so much for this.

i completely agree it’s such a hard one. The seller is not interested and keeps saying your bought as is and I cannot be held liable for anything after the sale’


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## Ambers Echo (19 May 2020)

I think horses who need firm handling unravel over time. It may not take long but it's not instant.  A 'my horse was fine at first but is now.....' story is more common I think.


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## Ambers Echo (19 May 2020)

PLUS seller keeps saying sold as seen go away blah blah. If this horse was behaving out of character the seller would probably try to help!


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## honetpot (19 May 2020)

Ambers Echo said:



			Ah no you have fewer rights in that case. A dealer has to take back regardless. A private seller only has to take back if she was missold. However you may have a case if you can evidence that she was sold as a horse who was easy to deal with and dd not buck/bronc. I assume you have texts, the ad etc.

I personally would write to say she was not as described and you are sending her back as soon as possible as missold and you would rather avoid a court case. Then see what happens. If she refuses obviously then you have to do right by the horse but I don't think horses should do what this horse is doing regardless of saddle/change/etc. Most well mannered and genuine horses do not attempt to kick people who pick their feet out or bronc the second soneone's bum hits the saddle even if something is uncomfortable. They generally warn first and have a bit more tolerance. I would not want a horse like that and you did not think you were buying a horse like that.

Too many sellers just lie and people don't hold them accountable because they feel responsible for the horse and so it goes on.

I'm all for letting horses settle, giving them time etc but you have found yourself with a horse you can't ride and who needs a vet and a pro! That is not fair on you and I don't believe for a second that this horse has never been difficult before.
		
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 I can not agree with all of this, I bought a pony from a friend and I have seen him in a variety of situations, uncluding travelling him to PC. Once I got him home I quickly realised he had some seperation anxiety issues and would sometimes mow you over in an effort not to be alone. When we moved yards two years later it he became upset about it all again, it took a month for me to get him in to a stable without wanting him to climb out. He had shown none of this behavoir with my friend. My other friend would not have anything to do with him, as he frightened her and he knew it, and would play up even more to get his own way.
  My old pony that I bought back as learned to bully people over the last 17 years from when I sold him as a three year old, his last owner could not wait to see the back of him, but he is no trouble for me, but he will sometimes see if he can push his luck.
  I am not saying that is not anything wrong with the horse, but unless you know the competance of the new owner its harsh critising the previous owners honesty, and why take back a problem not of your making if you do not have to? I have just sold a horse and the competance of the home to a degree was more importance than the price paid, and knowledgable homes with realistic expectations are becoming even harder to find.


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## Charlotteclarke (19 May 2020)

IrishMilo said:



			It sounds like your horse has gone from someone quite experienced and capable, where it felt secure and in charge of, to a new, much more novice rider. I know LOTS of horses who would turn into a nightmare without really firm and confident handling/riding.

Get someone with more experience to come and see what's going on before you spend what is going to be a lot of money investigating everything and hoping something sticks.
		
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Hi,

Thanks for your reply 

I have had quite a few people on the yard with experience where she’s stabled to have a look at her and they’ve said I haven’t put a foot wrong with anything I’ve done or how I’ve rode her. I’ve rang BHS so hopefully get something sorted soon


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## Ambers Echo (19 May 2020)

If it was new and uncharacteristic behaviour surely the old owner would be concerned and try to help even if they did not want her back. Owners attitude is highly suspect and screams 'not my problem anymore'. 

Can you do a social media search and try and find more out about the horse. There is often a surprising amount out there if you look hard enough.


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## Pearlsasinger (19 May 2020)

Charlotteclarke said:



			I’ll try this and keep you updated once again thanks so much for your help. Yes I’ve tried twice in 2/3 weeks as the first fall scared me I got back on for 5 mins and then took her back to the stable. Then 2 days ago she bronked as I mounted her and I fell onto the concrete on my back so I won’t be getting back on until the vet has checked her over x
		
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I wouldn't advise riding her until your vet has said there is nothing physically wrong but what I meant was that she is probably having far more feed than she needs, because her workload has been cut.


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## Charlotteclarke (19 May 2020)

Ambers Echo said:



			PLUS seller keeps saying sold as seen go away blah blah. If this horse was behaving out of character the seller would probably try to help!
		
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Yeah I’ve had no help or suggestions from the seller at all


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## Charlotteclarke (19 May 2020)

Ambers Echo said:



			If it was new and uncharacteristic behaviour surely the old owner would be concerned and try to help even if they did not want her back. Owners attitude is highly suspect and screams 'not my problem anymore'.

Can you do a social media search and try and find more out about the horse. There is often a surprising amount out there if you look hard enough.
		
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I’ll have a look but she isn’t bothered about helping me or giving any advice all I have had is 
‘You bought her as is’ 
‘Never unseated me’
‘Sorry she doesn’t behave as well for you as she did for me’


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## Charlotteclarke (19 May 2020)

Hi,

I understand what you’re saying, however she was having minimal schooling before she came to me and minimal hacking. But I’ll cut the feed back and see if there’s a difference and see what the vets say


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## Upthecreek (19 May 2020)

Ambers Echo said:



			PLUS seller keeps saying sold as seen go away blah blah. If this horse was behaving out of character the seller would probably try to help!
		
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Totally agree. A genuine seller who cared for the horse would be more helpful. She owned the horse for two years, not two months, so you would reasonably expect her to be concerned about the sudden change in behaviour you have described. Instead she is acting as though she is happy to have got rid of a problem and wants nothing more to do with it. Also, I don’t mean to be patronising at all, but I would not sell a 6 year old TB to a first time owner. If I was you I would be going down the mid-sold route because you could spend an awful lot of time and money getting to the bottom of the problem and even then, it is unlikely you will feel confident with the horse after what has happened.


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## Orangehorse (19 May 2020)

When people are selling a horse they do lots to make it sellable, very often by a lot of hard work and very little feed, so it is quiet and well behaved.  There are also short acting drugs that can make a horse quiet, which is what you saw in the video and what you experienced when you tried the horse.

The way the contract "sold as is" makes me thing she is a small time dealer.  Is this in the UK?  You can ring up the BHS helpline for legal advice.


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## Charlotteclarke (19 May 2020)

Upthecreek said:



			Totally agree. A genuine seller who cared for the horse would be more helpful. She owned the horse for two years, not two months, so you would reasonably expect her to be concerned about the sudden change in behaviour you have described. Instead she is acting as though she is happy to have got rid of a problem and wants nothing more to do with it. Also, I don’t mean to be patronising at all, but I would not sell a 6 year old TB to a first time owner. If I was you I would be going down the mid-sold route because you could spend an awful lot of time and money getting to the bottom of the problem and even then, it is unlikely you will feel confident with the horse after what has happened.
		
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thank you so much. Honestly your help means the world. The seller just does not seem interested at all, it’s quite hurtful to be honest as she knows my horse more than me. She’s sort of disregarding all of the issues I’m raising, ‘She wasn’t like that with me sorry she isn’t behaving the same for you’ ‘you bought her as is and I’m not liable for anything after the purchase date’ honestly I’m mind blown!


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## Charlotteclarke (19 May 2020)

Orangehorse said:



			When people are selling a horse they do lots to make it sellable, very often by a lot of hard work and very little feed, so it is quiet and well behaved.  There are also short acting drugs that can make a horse quiet, which is what you saw in the video and what you experienced when you tried the horse.

The way the contract "sold as is" makes me thing she is a small time dealer.  Is this in the UK?  You can ring up the BHS helpline for legal advice.
		
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hi yes she is a small private seller in the Uk, I’ve obviously been very stupid and gullible and I honestly feel like kicking myself! I’ve just purchased my gold membership with the BHS so I’m going to give them a ring x


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## Cortez (19 May 2020)

Charlotteclarke said:



			thank you so much. Honestly your help means the world. The seller just does not seem interested at all, it’s quite hurtful to be honest as she knows my horse more than me. She’s sort of disregarding all of the issues I’m raising, ‘She wasn’t like that with me sorry she isn’t behaving the same for you’ ‘you bought her as is and I’m not liable for anything after the purchase date’ honestly I’m mind blown!
		
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I think there may be more than a little perception twist in this - the "it was all right when it left here" response is nothing if not blunt, but can also be 100% truthful, so there is no need for your mind to be blown. A six year old, off the track TB would not ever be my recommendation for a first time horse owner, if you have over-horsed yourself the first place to go is to a really experienced instructor (not just someone on your yard who you think knows more than you do), this could save you a lot of expense, time and needless vet "explorations".


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## Charlotteclarke (19 May 2020)

Hi,

I do have an experienced instructor on the yard, and he has also expressed that her behaviour isn’t the same as the videos etc and that there is either a medical problem and if that is ruled out it’s behavioural. I am blown away by how the seller was lovely to begin with but now I have her she doesn’t seem to be bothered about the way she is behaving when being ridden. As for off the track, this was never relayed to me by the seller and she said ‘she didn’t make the times as she was too laid back’ the ad never stated she was OTT.


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## Cortez (19 May 2020)

OTT/out of training - same thing. Racing bred/trained thoroughbreds are rarely suitable for novices.


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## Charlotteclarke (19 May 2020)

Thank you


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## Cortez (19 May 2020)

I really, really feel for you and I hope you can get something sorted out for you (and the horse, who I also feel sorry for), but I think you should be prepared to put your hands up and consider selling the horse on to a more suitable home if you cannot find a solution. Whatever the reason for the horse's behavior, it doesn't sound like the kind of horse a novice should have.


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## PurBee (19 May 2020)

i wonder if she was sedated/pain injections for the videos and buyer inspections? Would explain why seller isnt interested (i sure as hell would be if my horse turned satanic in a new home)...and certainly explains why she had you sign a contract ‘sold as is’....who does that? A receipt sure...but a contract For a private sale? Dealer maybe a contract but private sale?

ive learnt anyone who actually specifies ‘sold as seen’ on an advert or receipt, knows there’s something wrong with the ‘goods’ that theyre not alerting the buyer to. It gives them legal protection.

Could also be a dealer masquerading as a private seller? Have you dug into seller history?

Other thing highly likely, if horse was at previous home for many years, not moved about much, then suddenly is rehomed, they take a good while to settle in to new homes and could explain the behaviour issues. Although her being sweet to you on the ground, but dangerous only when ridden negates this possibility.

so im more inclined to reason the seller masked a pain issue with drugs to sell the horse. 
a considerate genuine horse owner would be interested in looking at this ‘golden horse turned demon’, out of curiosity if no help could be offered. Her cutting you off communication-wise is a red flag for me.


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## Charlotteclarke (19 May 2020)

Cortez said:



			I really, really feel for you and I hope you can get something sorted out for you (and the horse, who I also feel sorry for), but I think you should be prepared to put your hands up and consider selling the horse on to a more suitable home if you cannot find a solution. Whatever the reason for the horse's behavior, it doesn't sound like the kind of horse a novice should have.
		
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Thanks so much, and yes of course I’m going to get her checked over and most likely back up for sale so I know for her and for me that if there are any issues they don’t go unnoticed again and can be resolved. I feel awful she is a lovely girl but she will be better off with someone who


PurBee said:



			i wonder if she was sedated/pain injections for the videos and buyer inspections? Would explain why seller isnt interested (i sure as hell would be if my horse turned satanic in a new home)...and certainly explains why she had you sign a contract ‘sold as is’....who does that? A receipt sure...but a contract For a private sale? Dealer maybe a contract but private sale?

ive learnt anyone who actually specifies ‘sold as seen’ on an advert or receipt, knows there’s something wrong with the ‘goods’ that theyre not alerting the buyer to. It gives them legal protection.

Could also be a dealer masquerading as a private seller? Have you dug into seller history?

Other thing highly likely, if horse was at previous home for many years, not moved about much, then suddenly is rehomed, they take a good while to settle in to new homes and could explain the behaviour issues. Although her being sweet to you on the ground, but dangerous only when ridden negates this possibility.

so im more inclined to reason the seller masked a pain issue with drugs to sell the horse.
a considerate genuine horse owner would be interested in looking at this ‘golden horse turned demon’, out of curiosity if no help could be offered. Her cutting you off communication-wise is a red flag for me.
		
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Thanks so much for this. I feel so stupid now looking back. I was obviously too excited to get her. But she seemed absolutely amazing no issues at all! I honestly thought she was so chilled out great to ride and now it’s just consolatory different! A lady at the farm mentioned sedatives and my heart sank. It’s not the horses fault but I thought the previous owner would be more Invested into finding out what’s going on. Thanks again x


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## honetpot (19 May 2020)

Charlotteclarke said:



			Hi,

I do have an experienced instructor on the yard, and he has also expressed that her behaviour isn’t the same as the videos etc and that there is either a medical problem and if that is ruled out it’s behavioural. I am blown away by how the seller was lovely to begin with but now I have her she doesn’t seem to be bothered about the way she is behaving when being ridden. As for off the track, this was never relayed to me by the seller and she said ‘she didn’t make the times as she was too laid back’ the ad never stated she was OTT.
		
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 Somewhere there is a thread om here titled something like nightmare buyer, have a look and see the other side.
 You usually sell a horse for a reason , I have bought more than I have sold over the years, and as a buyer, apart from the the obvious have it vetted, try it out on the road, you have to work out why someone is selling. With children and ponies they have either got too big, or they want to go up a level, or its a little devil, with adults its  a lot harder to find out the reason, and if they are an experienced rider of that horse they should know how to present at its best. Its a bit like buying a house and expecting the seller to show you all its bad bits, its what they do not say that is often is the most revealing. 
  The previous owner may have had no problems with their management, although it seems a lot of a mixture of food for something thats not in a lot of work.  If you didn't have it vetted and blood taken there is no use thinking its been doped because you have no evidence and if someone even suggested that to me as a seller I would cut comunication because it spells trouble and I would rather have it sorted out in court, and its up to you to prove that she has misdiscribed it.  You might just be really unlucky and moving yards has triggered hormonal problems, she is a young mare and it the breeding season, and some mare get really funny with their back end, and have pain in their loins. I like mares but they can be cows, and the sillyest of creatures, think Mean Girls, and if you want predictable a gelding is always a better bet.
  If was mine I would turn it out and just bring it in to give it a token feed and brush until the vet has examined it. I would be watching how it behaves in the field, how much time it spends standing, how it interacts with its field mates.


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## Amymay (19 May 2020)

Was the seller a dealer?


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## Charlotteclarke (19 May 2020)

Amymay said:



			Was the seller a dealer?
		
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Hi no she was private


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## Charlotteclarke (19 May 2020)

honetpot said:



			Somewhere there is a thread om here titled something like nightmare buyer, have a look and see the other side.
You usually sell a horse for a reason , I have bought more than I have sold over the years, and as a buyer, apart from the the obvious have it vetted, try it out on the road, you have to work out why someone is selling. With children and ponies they have either got too big, or they want to go up a level, or its a little devil, with adults its  a lot harder to find out the reason, and if they are an experienced rider of that horse they should know how to present at its best. Its a bit like buying a house and expecting the seller to show you all its bad bits, its what they do not say that is often is the most revealing.
  The previous owner may have had no problems with their management, although it seems a lot of a mixture of food for something thats not in a lot of work.  If you didn't have it vetted and blood taken there is no use thinking its been doped because you have no evidence and if someone even suggested that to me as a seller I would cut comunication because it spells trouble and I would rather have it sorted out in court, and its up to you to prove that she has misdiscribed it.  You might just be really unlucky and moving yards has triggered hormonal problems, she is a young mare and it the breeding season, and some mare get really funny with their back end, and have pain in their loins. I like mares but they can be cows, and the sillyest of creatures, think Mean Girls, and if you want predictable a gelding is always a better bet.
  If was mine I would turn it out and just bring it in to give it a token feed and brush until the vet has examined it. I would be watching how it behaves in the field, how much time it spends standing, how it interacts with its field mates.
		
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Thanks so much


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## Mrs. Jingle (19 May 2020)

I do feel for you and for the poor horse. But as for the seller marking the receipt 'sold as seen' why do people find that suspicious? I have done this in the past anytime someone has bought without a vetting. I have always let the buyers decide if they want to vet or not.

But if they don't vet then I jolly well want to cover myself if they come back in a month complaining it has x y and z wrong with it when you know damn well it was fine when it left you and the new owner has either broken it or cant ride it or is not keeping it in an appropriate way.  The seller also has to protect themselves from disreputable buyers (they do exist not only dodgy bad sellers and dealers by a long chalk) and surely that is justified.

I am not saying for one moment you are one of those awkward buyers OP - I think you sound to me like you may have been very naive not to get a vetting but I wouldn't be at all surprised if you have been duped in some way. A decent seller would want to help you if it was a genuine settling in case, I fear they know damn well it is more than that going on.  .


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## Amymay (19 May 2020)

Charlotteclarke said:



			Hi no she was private
		
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Are you absolutely sure? If you message me they’re name I can have a little search.


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## Ownedby4horses (19 May 2020)

I' m going to go against the grain on this one and it isnt intended to be cruel or accusatory.  However, we see it so often when someone that isnt experienced buys a horse that isnt suitable as a first horse, they don't own them for very long before issues start to arise and it immediately goes back to the seller lied/horse was drugged/etc etc.  

It is very easy to lay blame at the sellers door when things arent working out. Horses are sentient beings, they're hugely affected by new home moves (or just yard moves), fitness changes, weight changes, changes in routine, changes in level of exercise,  etc etc.  Even the smallest change can affect a horse. 

You've had the horse a very short time, hardly ridden it and you are now frightened of it (which i totally understand), yet the saddle hasnt been checked, theres been no vetting. From the seller's point of view you could be an absolute nightmare and she feels she is being accused of lying about the horse and a lot of people (especially with the current stress levels going on) could easily feel they can't cope trying to discuss anything with you anymore. 

I have noticed that I think you've pretty much made your mind up that the seller is at fault, as you have pretty much only replied to posts that agree with you. 

Please just stop for a minute and have a good think.  There is nothing wrong with admitting you have made a huge mistake buying a horse that isnt suitable but it shouldnt automatically be the sellers fault (in some cases obviously it is). What you need to do is carry out all the checks and get professional help with the horse and give the horse time to settle with you. I really feel for you and for the horse by the way, I'm not saying this to sound cruel but the horse has had its world turned upside down and perhaps focus on what you can do to help make the horse feel more settled, you may well find out you have the horse you originally tried.


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## Charlotteclarke (19 May 2020)

Amymay said:



			Are you absolutely sure? If you message me they’re name I can have a little search.
		
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as far as I know she was


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## Julie Ole Girl (19 May 2020)

Charlotteclarke said:



			Hi all,

I’m a first time buyer, I’ve previously ridden for 12 years and also part loaned.

I purchased my now TB mare 6 years old the end of last month.
Needless to say, she is acting completely different in my care to how she was when I viewed her.
I saw her owner mount her and ride no issues. I mounted from the floor and rode with no issues. Would pick her feet up no problem to be picked out.

I have now ridden her twice, both times she has threw me off by no fault of my own. I mounted her, she bronked and I fell onto concrete taking all the pressure on my back. She kick out her back feet when trying to pick them out, she also bronks / rears when being lunged.

She also reversed and bucked and I ended up again falling on my back. I’ve changed her bit, checked her saddle no issues at all.

I’m in Absolute shock at how she is because she was not like this on the videos and when I went to view her.

I really do not know what to do, I’ve approached the seller about this and she’s said she’s never been unseated by her and no issues at
		
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HeyMich said:



			Backing up when mounted, and refusing to pick up her back feet are both red flags if you ask me. It could be back/SI/stifle/hock pain - I'd get a vet out asap for a lameness work-up.

I'd also call the BHS legal service (free if you are a gold member) and ask where you stand with getting a refund from the previous owners, as it sounds like she was sold with known problems. How long did they own her?

Good luck.

.
		
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[QUOTE="Charlotteclarke,


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## Charlotteclarke (19 May 2020)

Julie Ole Girl said:



			[QUOTE="Charlotteclarke,
		
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Hi they owned her since she was 4 so just over 2 years x I have rang BHS and they have advised me to get her checked over by the vet


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## Leo Walker (19 May 2020)

Charlotteclarke said:



			as far as I know she was 

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Pm me all the details and I'll do some digging. Something doesn't add up here and if the information is out there then I'll find it for you


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## AUB (19 May 2020)

I think you’re wise to have a vet check your horse. Just to be on the safe side.

But as others have said, some horses just change behaviour when moving yards. I bought my mare from a friend who backed her and had her for 2 years. I rode her at my friends place for 2 months before moving her. So I knew the horse quite well. Never had seperation issues, I was almost always alone in the stable when grooming and saddling. I’m quite experienced and have owned horses for the last 25 years. But on the new yard my mare developed seperation anxiety very quickly and two years later is still not that happy about being alone in the stable. 

Long stort short, it‘s not impossible that your horse just needs time to settle in. Some horses do.


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## neddy man (19 May 2020)

#67 " she is a small private private seller" please explain what you mean by this, (sells a few  but not a dealer ?) PERSONAL MESSAGE Amymay and Leo Walker all details of seller, name address f/bk page etc, copy of advert, they are on your side and very experienced to help you.           Click their profile click start conversation,  it's only between you and them, not visible to other readers.


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## Charlotteclarke (19 May 2020)

neddy man said:



			#67 " she is a small private private seller" please explain what you mean by this, (sells a few  but not a dealer ?) PERSONAL MESSAGE Amymay and Leo Walker all details of seller, name address f/bk page etc, copy of advert, they are on your side and very experienced to help you.           Click their profile click start conversation,  it's only between you and them, not visible to other readers.
		
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Hi this is the only horse I’m aware of that she’s ever sold and I will do thank you


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## Charlotteclarke (19 May 2020)

AUB said:



			I think you’re wise to have a vet check your horse. Just to be on the safe side.

But as others have said, some horses just change behaviour when moving yards. I bought my mare from a friend who backed her and had her for 2 years. I rode her at my friends place for 2 months before moving her. So I knew the horse quite well. Never had seperation issues, I was almost always alone in the stable when grooming and saddling. I’m quite experienced and have owned horses for the last 25 years. But on the new yard my mare developed seperation anxiety very quickly and two years later is still not that happy about being alone in the stable.

Long stort short, it‘s not impossible that your horse just needs time to settle in. Some horses do.
		
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Thanks so much x


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## SBJT (19 May 2020)

I’d get the vet out to check over for ulcers, back / joint / SI problem, and also teeth. I’d check when she last had her teeth done as this caught me off guard a few years ago with a horse that wouldn’t pick up back feet and was in pain being ridden. Also I have to agree with the others and a 6 yo TB isn’t a great first horse unless you’re really experienced. They’re sensitive at the best of times and a new owner, new yard and different hay or food wouldn’t help. The fact that the old owner doesn’t want to help makes me question if they had doped the horse before being ridden, however Ownedby4horses has a point and I see blame on both sides. Moving forward I’d start with the vet visit and see where you are with that.


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## Leo Walker (20 May 2020)

As far as I can see she is a genuine private seller, unfortunately.


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## Charlotteclarke (20 May 2020)

SBJT said:



			I’d get the vet out to check over for ulcers, back / joint / SI problem, and also teeth. I’d check when she last had her teeth done as this caught me off guard a few years ago with a horse that wouldn’t pick up back feet and was in pain being ridden. Also I have to agree with the others and a 6 yo TB isn’t a great first horse unless you’re really experienced. They’re sensitive at the best of times and a new owner, new yard and different hay or food wouldn’t help. The fact that the old owner doesn’t want to help makes me question if they had doped the horse before being ridden, however Ownedby4horses has a point and I see blame on both sides. Moving forward I’d start with the vet visit and see where you are with that.
		
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Thanks so much


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## Errin Paddywack (20 May 2020)

A friend of mine bought a two year old off me.  Broke him and did well with him.  Sold him several years later when she was getting married.  Had a couple of people try him and get dumped by him.  He was quite sensitive and didn't like people bossing him about if he didn't know them.  He was finally bought by an experienced couple for showjumping.  They later reported that for the first week no-one could stay on him.  Once he settled he went out and won the first jumping competition they put him in.  He was a total sweetie, never put a foot wrong for my friend or me either on the odd time I rode him.


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## Charlotteclarke (20 May 2020)

Errin Paddywack said:



			A friend of mine bought a two year old off me.  Broke him and did well with him.  Sold him several years later when she was getting married.  Had a couple of people try him and get dumped by him.  He was quite sensitive and didn't like people bossing him about if he didn't know them.  He was finally bought by an experienced couple for showjumping.  They later reported that for the first week no-one could stay on him.  Once he settled he went out and won the first jumping competition they put him in.  He was a total sweetie, never put a foot wrong for my friend or me either on the odd time I rode him.
		
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Thank you for this!


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## FestiveFuzz (20 May 2020)

PurBee said:



			i wonder if she was sedated/pain injections for the videos and buyer inspections? Would explain why seller isnt interested (i sure as hell would be if my horse turned satanic in a new home)...and certainly explains why she had you sign a contract ‘sold as is’....who does that? A receipt sure...but a contract For a private sale? Dealer maybe a contract but private sale?

ive learnt anyone who actually specifies ‘sold as seen’ on an advert or receipt, knows there’s something wrong with the ‘goods’ that theyre not alerting the buyer to. It gives them legal protection.
		
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I disagree only a dodgy seller would state ‘sold as seen’. I’ve only sold one horse in 20+ years of ownership, he was advertised warts and all (was sweet enough but could be nappy at times) but the buyer refused to vet him against my advice and I sure as hell wasn’t having any comeback later on down the line if they changed their mind as he was being replaced and I wouldn’t have had the space or funds to take him back.

As it is, they kept him for many years so all was good, but as a genuine private seller I couldn’t run the risk of a claim at a later date.


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## PurBee (21 May 2020)

FestiveFuzz said:



			I disagree only a dodgy seller would state ‘sold as seen’. I’ve only sold one horse in 20+ years of ownership, he was advertised warts and all (was sweet enough but could be nappy at times) but the buyer refused to vet him against my advice and I sure as hell wasn’t having any comeback later on down the line if they changed their mind as he was being replaced and I wouldn’t have had the space or funds to take him back.

As it is, they kept him for many years so all was good, but as a genuine private seller I couldn’t run the risk of a claim at a later date.
		
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yes, i can understand this perspective. That makes sense...thanks for highlighting the ‘other side’ of the coin.

I find with an animal though, being a sentient being, especially a horse being an ever-changing creature, the ‘sold as seen’ caveat to be a mute point. 
Animals can easily react so differently for so many reasons - change in environment, food, handling etc...the buyer wont really know what theyve bought until they take them on and work with them.

I guess buyers who want more security than ‘sold as seen’ should find a seller who’s prepared to take the horse back if the home doesnt suit. As even a 5* vet check approval doesnt guarantee the animals behaviour to change of handler/rider and environment wont alter.

When i bought by mare, which i will admit was the way not to buy a horse!...anyway...i bought her, owner had her since foal, her only handler her whole life....same home and herd for her whole life, said she’s sweet as anything, doesnt kick or bite etc. Well....within the first day she kicked me, and the first month bit me hard! She had herd separation anxiety and really altered her behaviour....she lunged at me teeth bared etc...the whole 9 yards! But with patience i/we got there. She took ages to adjust but it was amazing to experience her slowly trusting this whole ‘new world’ she was suddenly plonked in. I didnt rush it As i could understand her perspective. Now she’s wonderful.

Suggestions that OP’s horse was maybe experiencing change in home anxiety are valid, but with the horse being sweet on the ground handling and just terrible when backed seems like more is going on than just home change anxiety.


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## Trouper (21 May 2020)

Whatever has or has not happened it sounds from your description as if the horse is in some pain - somewhere from something.   If you did not have her vetted then you can't go back and check bloods for pain relief meds when you tried her so it seems you have to decide just how much you like/want to keep her and how much you are prepared to invest in finding out the problems.  If I were going to go down the investigations route I would be contacting Tom Beech (The Osteopathic Vet) - have a look at his FB page.  You may have to wait for an appointment because he is so good but he will look at the whole horse for you - and being an equine vet can do/arrange for all the same tests any other vet can.
It is a horrible situation to be in and I do feel for you but if you don't get to the bottom of the problem, please do not pass her on to anyone else.  She could seriously injure them or end up having the most awful life herself.  I will sound as if I am jumping the gun here but I have been in your position and the only peace of mind I had after all the investigations was to put the horse to sleep (at age 7).  I have never regretted it.


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## FestiveFuzz (21 May 2020)

PurBee said:



			yes, i can understand this perspective. That makes sense...thanks for highlighting the ‘other side’ of the coin.

I find with an animal though, being a sentient being, especially a horse being an ever-changing creature, the ‘sold as seen’ caveat to be a mute point.
Animals can easily react so differently for so many reasons - change in environment, food, handling etc...the buyer wont really know what theyve bought until they take them on and work with them.

I guess buyers who want more security than ‘sold as seen’ should find a seller who’s prepared to take the horse back if the home doesnt suit. As even a 5* vet check approval doesnt guarantee the animals behaviour to change of handler/rider and environment wont alter.

When i bought by mare, which i will admit was the way not to buy a horse!...anyway...i bought her, owner had her since foal, her only handler her whole life....same home and herd for her whole life, said she’s sweet as anything, doesnt kick or bite etc. Well....within the first day she kicked me, and the first month bit me hard! She had herd separation anxiety and really altered her behaviour....she lunged at me teeth bared etc...the whole 9 yards! But with patience i/we got there. She took ages to adjust but it was amazing to experience her slowly trusting this whole ‘new world’ she was suddenly plonked in. I didnt rush it As i could understand her perspective. Now she’s wonderful.

Suggestions that OP’s horse was maybe experiencing change in home anxiety are valid, but with the horse being sweet on the ground handling and just terrible when backed seems like more is going on than just home change anxiety.
		
Click to expand...

I think your approach with your mare was the right one, unfortunately you only have to look on fb or on here to see that not everyone appreciates that some horses require a bit of settling in time when moving homes.

Your point about sentient beasts is spot on, but equally it’s all rather subjective. What I deem to be sharp could be someone else’s plod for example, and herein lies the problem when it comes to advertising horses, and that’s before you factor in any unsettled quirks that appear in the upheaval of moving home.


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## poiuytrewq (22 May 2020)

If as above the seller is genuinely private is there any research to be done into the horse? 
If it’s trained the trainer could be contacted and may be able to give an inkling as to the horses true temperament and how long the seller had actually owned it etc 
Op, I really hope you get somewhere with this.  You’ve taken on board all the advice and replied to every question (sometimes several times over) which often people don’t bother to do so you obviously really appreciate the help your being given which is quite refreshing!


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## Gloi (22 May 2020)

If you still have the copy of the advert you bought her from , make sure you keep hold of it. How does it describe the horse?


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## poiuytrewq (22 May 2020)

Gloi said:



			If you still have the copy of the advert you bought her from , make sure you keep hold of it. How does it describe the horse?
		
Click to expand...

Can you screenshot and post it?


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## Eclipse 2020 (23 May 2020)

I agree with  getting the horse checked out with a vet just in case there is a Heath problem cause by this. A horse may act differently with a more experienced rider Tb aren’t for first time owners But we all make mistakes . To be honest I don’t think you’re going to get far with the seller even if the horse is crazy you have no evidence that  the horse was drugged when you tried the horse and because the seller was private you have very little rights.   I really hope you get it sorted and I wish you the best of luck.


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## Daniel_Jack (23 May 2020)

You poor thing! I can only imagine how difficult this is for you.

While I agree that horses do need time to settle after a move this horses behaviour suggests more of a pain issue than just being unsettled. 

It sounds like you have a plan of action but even if the vet confirms an issue I'm not sure if you'd be able to take this up with the seller or if you'd need to work to resolve the issue yourself.  Fingers crossed you get to the bottom of things quickly.


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## AUB (10 June 2020)

It’s been a while now. Have your vet been out? Or has the behaviour changed to the better in the meantime?


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## Winters100 (18 June 2020)

What a horrid situation - I do hope that you are beginning to get towards a solution.

This may not be what you want to hear, but to me a 6 year old TB does not sound like the right horse for you.  I am not being patronizing, it would also not be the right horse for me, but it sounds as if you are now nervous around the horse, and you could get hurt if you continue.  If a vet check does not reveal any issues then I would be inclined to have the horse schooled by a pro and sell on.  You can have a lot of fun with this hobby, but if you are over-horsed it also has potential to be an expensive misery!  I can tell you from experience of trying for years with a horse who was too much for me, having 2 serious accidents (broken back and head injury which resulted in a concussion lasting 6 months). When I sold and bought the right horse all the joy came back, and keeping my 2 now costs less than keeping the 1 that I had before - without full time trainers, endless lessons etc horse ownership has once again become a much loved hobby.  Good luck, and do let us know how you are doing.


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