# XC - tired horses



## Elf On A Shelf (30 July 2012)

I've just watched half an hour or so of the Olympic XC and so far about half of the horses I have watched have finished quite tired. It looks a tough endurance filled course with all of those hills and the likes. Whilst the fences don't look that big height wise they do look substantial enough. 

Why does no one ever pull up their tired horses? I know it's the Olympics and the pressure is on so but surely the horses come first.

Also they all seem to be getting quite a jolt when they jump into the water. I wouldn't be overly surprised if there were a few jarred up horses i the morning.


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## MissMincePie&Brandy (30 July 2012)

I've just come back in, and have missed what's happened. What is the delay for? I presume someone's taken a fall?


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## M_G (30 July 2012)

No s**t sherlock, it's an Olympic event and as such is supposed to test horse and rider to the limits!!!


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## Elf On A Shelf (30 July 2012)

M_G said:



			No s**t sherlock, it's an Olympic event and as such is supposed to test horse and rider to the limits!!!
		
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There's a difference between testing a horse and rider to it's limits and riders not knowing when to stop their horses because they are clearly knackered. That's what I'm on about. The course is doing it's job, sorting the wheat from the chaff but surely these riders would give half a thought to their horses underneath them.


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## M_G (30 July 2012)

They are the best riders in the world I would think they know much better than you or I as to how far to push their own horses bearing in mind the tricky phase is tomorrow


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## joeanne (30 July 2012)

They are the BEST of what the country can offer. 
The course is designed to test both horse and rider, so yes.....I should imagine they are a little tired.
But then if they are not fit to compete the next phase the vet will surely say so!
And as for "knackered", you and I must have been watching different events. I saw tired horses, but for the most, many came in barely having broken a sweat. These horses are extremely fit....and it shows!


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## MissMincePie&Brandy (30 July 2012)

I've not seen the whole event, as I am supposed to be working, so keep popping out to do emails,  but from what I've seen none of the horses appear to be finishing in a condition that would concern me having just run this course.  Have there been many errors through tiredness? I've not seen any.  

(still not sure what the delay was for though)

It looks like a technically tricky course in places, but the weather and the ground conditions are perfect today for the horses.  Wish I was there.


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## MurphysMinder (30 July 2012)

Don't pretend to have much knowledge but I actually thought the majority were finishing looking pretty good, as Joeanne says hardly sweating.   I have seen horses looking far more knackered after fun rides round here.


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## Emilieu (30 July 2012)

Methinks EKW may have a slight agenda here


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## Elf On A Shelf (30 July 2012)

Emilieu said:



			Methinks EKW may have a slight agenda here 

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Nope - genuinely querying why they don't call it a day on horses that clearly look quite tired.


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## MurphysMinder (30 July 2012)

I did wonder but not sure why, surely most people who support eventing support racing too.


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## MissMincePie&Brandy (30 July 2012)

EKW - Which horses did you think looked too tired and should have been pulled up?


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## ThePony (30 July 2012)

All the ones I've seen have looked good on finishing. Like they have worked hard yes, but certainly not worryingly tired out. (And I am a right fluffy sod too lol!). It is a stamina test of course, but these are super fit horses and riders who appear to have been well prepared for the test the course is giving. Not one horse has finished giving me cause for concern. You'll see alot worse at the lower levels of eventing tbh with unprepared horses and riders.


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## Emilieu (30 July 2012)

It's exactly the complaint a lot of people make about racing and its often pointed out that they don't say the same about eventing. Fair dos - although I've watched it all and horses look ok to me.


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## Mince Pie (30 July 2012)

M_G, I think maybe you should do a little research into who EKW is 


perhaps it's the steep hills at the end of the course, although agree with others who have said that not that many of the horses are tired, let alone knackered.


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## Elf On A Shelf (30 July 2012)

The last German horse that went - started like a bullet out of a gun but to me looked to really struggle over the last couple of fences. Most look ok but some do look quite tired to me.


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## M_G (30 July 2012)

Broke but happy should I know who EKW is then?


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## Elf On A Shelf (30 July 2012)

M_G said:



			Broke but happy should I know who EKW is then?
		
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I generally get very anoyed when people say ban racing due to deaths and peoples attitudes towards racing compared to other equestrian sports.

BUT 

That has nothing to do with the Olympic eventing. I am genuinely curios as to why no one pulls up horses on the xc course when they are tired and insist on completing the course regardless. 

Also - whats at the bottom of the water? As in - what surface lies underneath? Mud? Stones? Concrete? Something that doesn't look to have much give in it by the looks of it.


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## huntley (30 July 2012)

One of the skills of cross country riding is in being able to ride a tired horse home sympathetically. Just demonstrated by both William and Toddy. They are younger horses and probably a bit overawed by the presence of so many cheering people. I am sure they will be fresh in the morning. Thought all the horses finished very well given the terrain.


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## Amymay (30 July 2012)

Horses always land very flat footed in water, because the water stops their forward momentum.

Tody's horse seemed to have finished the most tired. But apart from that most finished well. However, I would expect every horse to finish tired.


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## BobbyMondeo (30 July 2012)

The horses are going to be tired when they finish, the course is designed that way.
None of them look knackered and like they couldnt possibly carry on and all look happy at the finish! Its been a great day of competition


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## 4x4 (30 July 2012)

OH (not very horsey) just watched it and said "why is it so difficult to get a horse fit enough or a 10 minute competition when they would go hunting ALL day?" - I just think they maybe weren't expecting/didn't train for such undulating terrain and tbh where could you?


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## M_G (30 July 2012)

The surface under the water will more than likely be sand or some other such horse friendly surface... Do you really think multi million pound horses ridden by extremely experienced professionals would be jumped on to concrete or rocks?


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## 4x4 (30 July 2012)

Also they would have hopefully walked the water to suss out the landing...


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## Nicnac (30 July 2012)

Of course they would have trained the horses for such steep and undulating terrain 

The world has known the venue is Greenwich for a long time and they (the competitors and their teams) would have studied the topography of the terrain and prepared fully for it.  Sorry but when an athlete finishes the 10,000 or 5,000 meter races - do they look tired? Of course they do - they usually flake out over the finish line after a race on the flat with no jumping.  

If a horse did this, the world would be up in arms, therefore I'd say the event horses are by far the fittest athletes in the whole of the Olympics!


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## flump (30 July 2012)

Well at least there isnt 40 horses bombing round a 4 mile course breaking legs and falling all over the place!!


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## Amymay (30 July 2012)

4x4, you can't compare a days hunting (where a horse isn't galloping all day) with 10 mins of high and sustained exertion.

And Beans, what a very juvenile and inaccurate comment.


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## devonlass (30 July 2012)

EKW said:



			Most look ok but some do look quite tired to me.
		
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Are you serious that they should pull up horses in an olympic event because they look a bit tired?? They all looked to be coping pretty well to me,not exactly dropping like flies at the finish were they!!

Perhaps in the showjumping we should only have small jumps and stick to trot,just in case they get a bit fatigued with all that cantering and leaping about

Sorry for the sarcasm,but quite frankly this thread was more than worthy of it

I've been watching it all day,and loved every minute.Thought all the GB riders did great,and didn't see a single rider out of all the competitors that I would have considered unkind or doing wrong by their horse.Fantastic day of eventing,wish I could have been there


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## Jenni_ (30 July 2012)

Well, it all depends how they ride them! 

That was evident in the very first 2 riders to go, first one went bullet out of gun speed round that course, and got tired, and came him with time penalties.

Second one started out much slower but knocked it up several gears on the way round and finished in the time!

Do they look tired? Course they do! But they also look elated and bloody pleased with themselves!


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## cornbrodolly (30 July 2012)

I echo Devonlass - a very civilised xcountry day - watched it all . Never saw a horse in distress, or poor riding. I thought either they are brilliant , or fences easier than Badminton - and I came down on side of the former - just good riding!
Horses were tired but but not remotely'blown', and would be suprised if many fail trot up tomorrow. So much easier these days without steeplechase and roads and tracks.
I d say well done everone.


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## LittleMouse (30 July 2012)

i know the course is supposed to be challenging...but some horse were properly knackered! Mark Todd was whipping his horse to the last fence and it just barely made it over. i think the riders get a bit caught up in the moment and maybe just push the horses a bit too much xx


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## PolarSkye (30 July 2012)

EKW said:



			I generally get very anoyed when people say ban racing due to deaths and peoples attitudes towards racing compared to other equestrian sports.

BUT 

That has nothing to do with the Olympic eventing. I am genuinely curios as to why no one pulls up horses on the xc course when they are tired and insist on completing the course regardless. 

Also - whats at the bottom of the water? As in - what surface lies underneath? Mud? Stones? Concrete? Something that doesn't look to have much give in it by the looks of it.
		
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EKW, we know you have an axe to grind . . . and I get that you are passionate about racing . . . but at least get your facts straight before getting out your whetstone.

P


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## Orangehorse (30 July 2012)

Mark Todd gave his horse one smack before the fence and another on the run in - hardly whipping it.  The horse did look tired but not so much that he should have been pulled up.

Some horses just have more stamina than others, I don't think it is just to do with fitness. Some just find it easier than others to jump and gallop.

If you jumped and galloped for 10 minutes up and down hill over nearly 30 fences, your hunter would be pretty tired too.

I had a great day watching it on TV - and got to the bottom of my ironing basket.


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## mik (30 July 2012)

Does anyone want popcorn?


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## PolarSkye (30 July 2012)

mik said:



			Does anyone want popcorn?
		
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No thanks . . . I don't want to spoil my dinner .

P


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## Amymay (30 July 2012)

Littlemouse, Mark Todd smacked his horse once - and not at the last fence....


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## christine48 (30 July 2012)

I think a lot has to do with the difference between a TB like Miners Frolic and the warm blood horses. A few did finish tired, just hope they aren't broken as that's when it's more likely to happen.


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## LittleMouse (30 July 2012)

amymay said:



			Littlemouse, Mark Todd smacked his horse once - and not at the last fence....
		
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i think he did? unless it was Will Fox-Pitt...i might be getting confused. one of them gave their horse a smack before the last fence and just made it over (the horseshoe fence)


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## Goldenstar (30 July 2012)

I have to say I did not like to see MT hit the horse after the last fence but is it an issue in the big scheme of things no.
It was IMO a amazing show case for the sport at its highest level.


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## BobbyMondeo (30 July 2012)

Yes tody did hit his horse but thats because they didnt quite make the striding and he wanted to get it over the fence. IMO the best thing to do....so what if its tired for one fence, get home clear. Im sure the horse is fine and happilly munching now


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## LittleMouse (30 July 2012)

BobbyMondeo said:



			Yes tody did hit his horse but thats because they didnt quite make the striding and he wanted to get it over the fence. IMO the best thing to do....so what if its tired for one fence, get home clear. Im sure the horse is fine and happilly munching now
		
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yes of course, good point hahaha xx all this arguing and i bet the horses couldnt even care less...they have food! hahaha


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## PolarSkye (30 July 2012)

Orangehorse said:



			Mark Todd gave his horse one smack before the fence and another on the run in - hardly whipping it.  The horse did look tired but not so much that he should have been pulled up.

Some horses just have more stamina than others, I don't think it is just to do with fitness. Some just find it easier than others to jump and gallop.

If you jumped and galloped for 10 minutes up and down hill over nearly 30 fences, your hunter would be pretty tired too.

I had a great day watching it on TV - and got to the bottom of my ironing basket.
		
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To be honest, I'd rather a horse was given a wakeup smack coming into a x-country fence and jumped it safely than left alone and jumped clumsily putting horse and rider in jeopardy.  And let's not forget that there are stewards and vets on course whose job it is to pull up those riders whose horses they feel are struggling hard.

And EKW, I don't see you moaning about Grand National horses finishing tired and they go round in a great scrum versus event horses going round one at a time so that they can only get in their own way and not bring down several others when they're leg weary.

Right . . . I'm off to eat dinner and let this thread spiral out of control.

P


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## Elf On A Shelf (30 July 2012)

Who cares if it's tired for one fence? Well one fence is all it takes. 

I cant remember who it was, a male anywho, just an individual not a team member? who gave a shocking display of riding over  the last 3 fences. Belted the horse a few times before each fence, met them all wrong and nearly landes in a heap over the last. That was obviously rider error as the horse was still clearly pulling. 

I asked what was under the water as I don't know. Could've been a bouncy castle for all I know! It just seemed that most horses were jolting or pecking on landing  when going in and jumping things in the water.


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## wildoat (30 July 2012)

I must say I thought the XC today was a great advert for the sport, yes the course was challenging, that's the idea surely!

Fantastic crowds and many superb performances by riders and horses.
As for horses being knackered, some were more tired than others but that is 
always going to be the case, I honestly don't think any of the riders today would put their ambitions before the welfare of their horses, not in a million years actually.
From what I've seen this is not a sport where any rider would be successful if they didn't always put their horses well-being first, the reasons are fairly obvious I'd have thought.

Reckon the SJ will be compulsive viewing!

Cheers All

Tony


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## Elf On A Shelf (30 July 2012)

I just asked why event horses never seem to be pulled up and finished regardless! I quite happily boot the backsides of jockeys that do that to horses - I did it to one of our lads the other day.

Yes limits are there to be pushed but sometimes they are pushed too far and thats when problems arise.


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## Elf On A Shelf (30 July 2012)

Anywho, I'd better go feed my show horses enough food to put another few inches onto their inpressive waistlines and add a 6th rug whilst I'm at it


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## wildoat (30 July 2012)

EKW said:



			Who cares if it's tired for one fence? Well one fence is all it takes.

I asked what was under the water as I don't know. Could've been a bouncy castle for all I know! It just seemed that most horses were jolting or pecking on landing  when going in and jumping things in the water.
		
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The landing in the water would have been designed and modified where necessary to make it as horse/rider safe as possible, this applies to all water obstacles in eventing!

Regards

Tony


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## PolarSkye (30 July 2012)

EKW said:



			I just asked why event horses never seem to be pulled up and finished regardless! I quite happily boot the backsides of jockeys that do that to horses - I did it to one of our lads the other day.

Yes limits are there to be pushed but sometimes they are pushed too far and thats when problems arise.
		
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Event horses *are* pulled up when tired . . . most often by the riders . . . sometimes by officials.  I've seen it happen many times.  I don't believe that any of the horses who finished tired today were beyond their limits.

And here I said I was going to go and eat . . . husband is making the salad, must put the computer down . . . 

P


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## PolarSkye (30 July 2012)

EKW said:



			Anywho, I'd better go feed my show horses enough food to put another few inches onto their inpressive waistlines and add a 6th rug whilst I'm at it 

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Not sure what this means, but . . . give them a pat and an extra likkit each from me while you're at it . . . .

P


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## BobbyMondeo (30 July 2012)

EKW said:



			I just asked why event horses never seem to be pulled up and finished regardless! I quite happily boot the backsides of jockeys that do that to horses - I did it to one of our lads the other day.

Yes limits are there to be pushed but sometimes they are pushed too far and thats when problems arise.
		
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They pulled up all the time by both riders and stewards. This thread is a little ridiculous to be honest


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## guido16 (30 July 2012)

Polarskye, go eat your tea, don't take the bait.

Nothing wrong with the horses today, yes some we're tired, but no more tired than a racehorse is after a ace, or any horse is after a good gallop. 

They are 5 star horses with 5 star rides at a 5 star event.

They should be applauded at how quickly the vets were on scene when required.


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## Sash2012 (30 July 2012)

Must say some parts of the course looked frightening.
Like the pic in this
http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/sports/305100/eventing-cross-country-held-up-by-falls


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## AprilBlossom (30 July 2012)

I do agree EKW, that final double second to last had a fair few looking tired a they went over, but none that looked anywhere near like how they looked at last years boiling hot badminton. 

I think the fact that they were tiring there demonstrates it was a good course - tired at the second last fence with one straightforward final fence isn't any harder than horses running in from a 4 miler in mud! (I have no issue with either in general)


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## Amymay (30 July 2012)

EKW event horses ate pulled up. And after the issues raised at a previous Games (Athens?), riders will now be stopped on course and retired if a horse is obviously struggling.

I must admit I'm struggling with your post. And you're either showing a staggering level of nativity or deliberately flaming (which would be a shame..)


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## Fellewell (30 July 2012)

huntley said:



			One of the skills of cross country riding is in being able to ride a tired horse home sympathetically. Just demonstrated by both William and Toddy. They are younger horses and probably a bit overawed by the presence of so many cheering people. I am sure they will be fresh in the morning. Thought all the horses finished very well given the terrain.
		
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Excellent post!

On the whip issue, I remember seeing Lester Piggott being interviewed about the whip ban in racing. The interviewer asked whether whips should be used and Lester replied "No". The interviewer became quite animated thinking he had a real scoop, "Why not?" he asked excitedly. "Well" replied Lester, "Some of them just don't like it".

A really great rider knows when and how to use a whip.

Go Team GBR!!


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## EAST KENT (30 July 2012)

It is a team event,if one of ours gets pulled up it buggers up the competition for the rest of the team..simple.It was a very tight undulating course,a bit tricky to ride..did`nt see one truly tired horse anyway. Tired,as in National winners,no not at all.


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## Queenbee (30 July 2012)

I was there and there were one or two a wee bit tired at the end but they monitor their recovery time, I assume all the horses recovered to resting heart rates well within the required time. Yes there were hills, water and rough terrain, not to mention some pretty hefty jumps but they all covered the ground well and jumped well. I can tell you without a
Shadow of a doubt that I, as a human am a hell of a lot more knackered than any of those horses right now. And all the riders out there are acutely aware that a good dressage and xc count for nothing if you mess up your sj because your horse is too knackered. Perhaps we should stop marathon runners from running such long tiring races


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## Queenbee (30 July 2012)

And I have seen horses pulled up in the past by top riders ( including some of team gb) in past Olympics and other 3 day events... Just not today


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## jaquelin (30 July 2012)

I was present. The majority were fit. A couple were not & I saw 1US team member become unsEated & horse fall T fence 11. Horse completely winded & not in condition & probably why fell. WilliamFP nursed his home as tired at end & incurred penalty points. Quite a few unseated riders,a portion may have been as a result of fatigue. Main problem was ground. Good old London clay with slick, slightly damp grass over so a fair few slipped. I have regularly seen event horses pulled up & also withdrawn from x-c if not perceived as fit enough, so the " never pulled up " statement is nonsense.


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## ribbons (31 July 2012)

This thread has really rattled me. I think OP started it to create a bit of heat but the responses agreeing some were too tired and should have been pulled up reflect today's attitude to life. 
If horses and people worked harder there would be less overweight idle unhealthy equines and humans. 
I know what I say will cause outrage from some, but honestly, most people I meet are workshy. Kids working at local stables for the chance of a ride is never seen anymore. It's all about getting the most from life whilst putting as little as possible effort in.
The country is on it's ass because not enough humans have a work ethic and those that do, rarely work physically. We have fat people and fat horses and very fat dogs. It's not only good to work hard and break a sweat, it's actually healthy, and the wonderful feeling of being tired after working hard is something many people or horses have ever experienced.
We seem to have gone from one extreme to the other. 100 years ago horses and humans were worked into the ground with no care for their health. Today it seems the norm for both to do nothing but get fat and unhealthy. 
What happened to common sense.


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## CILLA (31 July 2012)

Queenbee I was there to and echo your comments i am sitting at work trying to engage the brain after a 18hr day much easier being on the H&H Forum ! Fingers crossed for today.


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