# Very poor, underweight thoroughbred...what to feed?



## SmartieBean09 (31 January 2011)

Not for me, but for a lovely young girl at the stables who has asked me to ask you wonderful HHO's for some much needed advice.

All the usual checks done, such as teeth and worming but no vet check as yet.

Money is a bit tight for the girl but she is currently feeding her horse twice daily:

1 scoop of Hi Fi Senior
1 scoop of Wheat Bran
Balancer
1 scoop of Sugarbeet (soaked)

Stabled overnight with adlib hay and Ryegrass Haylage.

Horse is in lightwork, 16.1hh, very poor and very stressy!

He is continuing to lose weight.  

What would you suggest he is fed, trying to keep things as cheap as possible for her.

Thanks everyone for your help


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## Firewell (31 January 2011)

Diet seems ok. Are you sure there is nothing wrong with him? Ulcers? In my experience TB's get stressy and lose weight when they have upset tummies.
Is he getting good grass and hay during the day? There's only so much they can eat overnight.

The only suggestion I would make is maybe try swapping sugar beet for kwik beet as the molasses in sugar beet can be a bit rich for some horses.

My Tb is prone to loosing weight but I find if I keep him toasty warm and make sure he's eating enough haylage he is fine. He's best fed on simple food, a scoop of alfalfa or Hifi, a low spec supplement or balancer and H and P nuts and he is great. If I add too rich foods like too much Alfa, starch, protein or whatever he gets a runny bum and gets stressy which makes him loose weight.

They are all individuals though.

My mum feeds her TB Baileys outshine with kwik beet and a small amount of Alfa or Hifi  and that suits him.

Hope that is of some help


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## Kokopelli (31 January 2011)

We started our TB on Build Up nuts about a week and a half ago and there is already a slight difference in his weight, they are cheap and cheerful and you can get them almost anywhere. It hasn't fizzed him up either which is always a plus


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## BMA (31 January 2011)

Baileys number 4 top line conditioning or number 17 conditioning mix

Dengie Alfa Oil Chaff

Feed balancer...I know they are expensive but they do last.


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## Lace57 (31 January 2011)

I fed crushed barley to mine aswell. Nice and cheap. Another option is Winergy Equilibrium Condition recently put mine on this and has made a difference so quickly. May seem slightly more expensive but it a complete feed with alfa a already in the bag and you shouldnt need to add any oil / supplements


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## FaldingwoodLivery (31 January 2011)

Mine was poor when I got him, I feed him

baileys no 4
alfalfa
sugar beet
soya oil

he's looking fab now, one of my liverys was also quite poor but couldn't have too much protein cos of liver damage he's done fab on just a high fibre mix, molassed chaff, sugar beet and a handful of barley. Barleys fab for weight gain...be careful with a tb though as some can be allergic to it. 

Another thing I'm careful with mine about is lots and lots of forage and he's rugged to high heaven! 

I'd be tempted to have the vet out for a quick once over, maybe some bloods just to check there's no underlying problems


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## SmartieBean09 (31 January 2011)

FaldingwoodLivery said:



			Mine was poor when I got him, I feed him

baileys no 4
alfalfa
sugar beet
soya oil

he's looking fab now, one of my liverys was also quite poor but couldn't have too much protein cos of liver damage he's done fab on just a high fibre mix, molassed chaff, sugar beet and a handful of barley. Barleys fab for weight gain...be careful with a tb though as some can be allergic to it. 

Another thing I'm careful with mine about is lots and lots of forage and he's rugged to high heaven! 

I'd be tempted to have the vet out for a quick once over, maybe some bloods just to check there's no underlying problems
		
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I also think a visit from the vet may be wise.  The horse has a lot of issues.  He has been passed from pillar to post.  I will mention it to her but I think money is a real issue for her.  

Ive mentioned to her that I wouldnt be surprised if he had ulcers.  I thought Jamin was stressy but he takes the biscuit!

Thanks everyone for your advice so far.  Ive passed on all of your replies.


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## piebaldsparkle (1 February 2011)

When you say 'Scoop' what type of scoop?  The large round stubbs or the small cylinder type ones?  Why is she feeding bran?


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## annar (1 February 2011)

i have 2 one whom im still having probs getting weight on but his is a pain isssue and is currently away at vets been assessed. 
my other gets one large round scoop of spillers conditioning fibre and one large round scoop of fibrebeet once its made up and 1 and half mugs of lo cal balancer in 2 meals a day, hes gone from boney to very good condition and looks amazing and not at all fizzy which he is very prone too. its also very reasonable to feed cost wise.
i would say though that it does sound like your friends horse could have other issues like my other lad. I struggle to get any weight on my other and even calming non heating food have made him crackers apart from the above diet. annax


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## SmartieBean09 (1 February 2011)

piebaldsparkle said:



			When you say 'Scoop' what type of scoop?  The large round stubbs or the small cylinder type ones?  Why is she feeding bran?
		
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she used to feed Baileys No1 and the feed shop told her that Wheat Bran is the cheaper equivalent.  Ive told her to drop it as I always thought you werent meant to feed this everyday.  She is currently feeding the large round stubbs scoops of it everyday.


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## TGM (1 February 2011)

SmartieBean09 said:



			she used to feed Baileys No1 and the feed shop told her that Wheat Bran is the cheaper equivalent.  Ive told her to drop it as I always thought you werent meant to feed this everyday.  She is currently feeding the large round stubbs scoops of it everyday.
		
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Are you sure it is bran, not wheat middlings?


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## SmartieBean09 (1 February 2011)

TGM said:



			Are you sure it is bran, not wheat middlings?
		
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Definately Bran.  Its made by Heygates.

http://www.heygatesfeeds.co.uk/HorseFeeds.aspx


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## Amymay (1 February 2011)

If she is happy that she is feeding the horse enough, and there is a good amount of hay left in the morning (indicating that the horse does indeed have adlib hay) - then I'd be having the vet.

And obviously dropping the bran and feeding something nutritious and non laxative.


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## TGM (1 February 2011)

I've heard wheat middlings recommended as a weight gain feed before, but it has a higher calorie level than bran.  Bran is usually about 10 MJDE/kg, whereas Baileys No 1 is 14 MJDE/kg - quite a big difference!

I'm not sure why she is feeding HiFi Senior if he is underweight as it is pretty low calorie at 8.5 MJDE/kg.  If she is on a budget, then she might be better substituting soaked grass nuts for the HiFi (which would work out cheaper) and the money she saves on that could be used on replacing the bran with something like Baileys No 1.

Is he actually eating all the feed he gets?  Stressy types often don't.  Does he stress in the field as well as the stable?  Perhaps he would be calmer and easier to keep weight on living out.

If he is eating decent amounts of food and still losing weight then a vet check is definitely needed.

ETA: I know you say he is on ad lib hay but it might be an idea to find out how much he is actually eating of it.  I'd weigh the hay out in the evening, and then weigh how much is left in the morning to work out how much he has actually eaten.  If he is a stressy type he might be spending the night box walking and stargazing rather than eating hay.


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## Steeleydan (1 February 2011)

Smartie tell your friend Baileys No1 is NOT the equivalent of wheat bran, Baileys No1 is whats called wheatings its is the main ingredient of nuts, conditioning cubes calm & cond etc. We can buy straight wheatings from our feed merchant, its definitly not bran(look the same tbh)
Personally I would feed him
Conitioning cubes
Spillers Conditioning chaff
Sugar beet
Few carrots
The cond cubes and the above mention chaff are both high in oil so there fore cuts out the need to add more, (Will cut down expence a bit there)
Another good thing to feed him to build him up is calf milk powder (If he will eat it) alot of showing people build there show horses up on this, to intoduce it to him I would stir it into a scoop of soaked sugar beet, then stir it into the feed.


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## SmartieBean09 (1 February 2011)

TGM said:



			I've heard wheat middlings recommended as a weight gain feed before, but it has a higher calorie level than bran.  Bran is usually about 10 MJDE/kg, whereas Baileys No 1 is 14 MJDE/kg - quite a big difference!

I'm not sure why she is feeding HiFi Senior if he is underweight as it is pretty low calorie at 8.5 MJDE/kg.  If she is on a budget, then she might be better substituting soaked grass nuts for the HiFi (which would work out cheaper) and the money she saves on that could be used on replacing the bran with something like Baileys No 1.

Is he actually eating all the feed he gets?  Stressy types often don't.  Does he stress in the field as well as the stable?  Perhaps he would be calmer and easier to keep weight on living out.

If he is eating decent amounts of food and still losing weight then a vet check is definitely needed.

ETA: I know you say he is on ad lib hay but it might be an idea to find out how much he is actually eating of it.  I'd weigh the hay out in the evening, and then weigh how much is left in the morning to work out how much he has actually eaten.  If he is a stressy type he might be spending the night box walking and stargazing rather than eating hay.
		
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He definately stresses in the box.  Ive called her before in the evening because he was almost throwing himself out of the box.  Saying that, Ive heard he has got much better.  She doesnt have any shelter in her field but perhaps if he is well rugged then living out may be an option.  I am not sure if he eats all of his feed but I will speak with her to find out.

I know that she said he favours the Haylage over hay so I suggested that we try to find somewhere where she can bulk buy haylage and keeping her boy on haylage rather than hay. Giving him more haylage should cut her feed bills too.

I will pass on your suggestion TGM - thank you.

amymany, I agree that she should drop the bran.  I am amazed she was advised to feed it in the first place!  I will also suggest a visit from the vet.  

thank you


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## Bug2007 (1 February 2011)

24/7 turnout well rugged and continue to feed the same and ablib hay.

Alot of the more stressy TB's do much better out 24/7 rather than in, they loose less weight relaxed in the field then they do stressing all night in the stable. Worked wonders for a number of TB's I know.

A lot of people get a TB and think they have to be stabled over night, but most do a lot better out. Give it a try if you have the access to that turnout.

If that still doesn't improve after a good few weeks then the vet needs to be called as it maybe a medical problem.

Some TB's though are just light on the weight front and no matter what you do they just don't hold weight.


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## SmartieBean09 (1 February 2011)

Steeleydan said:



			Smartie tell your friend Baileys No1 is NOT the equivalent of wheat bran, Baileys No1 is whats called wheatings its is the main ingredient of nuts, conditioning cubes calm & cond etc. We can buy straight wheatings from our feed merchant, its definitly not bran(look the same tbh)
Personally I would feed him
Conitioning cubes
Spillers Conditioning chaff
Sugar beet
Few carrots
The cond cubes and the above mention chaff are both high in oil so there fore cuts out the need to add more, (Will cut down expence a bit there)
Another good thing to feed him to build him up is calf milk powder (If he will eat it) alot of showing people build there show horses up on this, to intoduce it to him I would stir it into a scoop of soaked sugar beet, then stir it into the feed.
		
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Thanks SD.  I agree that Spillers Conditioning chaff is fab stuff!  Have used myself but found it very difficult to get hold of.


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## robysfarm (1 February 2011)

Rowan Barbary Ready Mash Extra (the one with the Red Writing), Alfa A Oil, a general vitamin and mineral supplement, a Naf Rock Salt Lick and plenty of access to haylage and doctor green.  This has worked brilliantly for my veteran mini racehorse, shes a 12.2 show pony whos 24 and acts like she is about 16 hh ready to run the National, can be very stressy and by nature is a bad doer.  Everything has to be fibre based as she has Cushings and it does bring on laminitis if she is fed concentrates etc.  She can have grass though as her laminitis is connected to the daylight hours through the cushings.


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## flyingfeet (1 February 2011)

Tell her to ditch the bran as it acts like a laxative and often fed post hunting to keep everything moving and prevent colic / tying up 

If not eating the hay, its the 2010 crop problem, so spray with hay boost (from countrywide) or pour on some dilute molasses. Downside of the latter is the introduction of pure sugar to a TB's diet makes them perky

Ensure they are rugged up to the eyeballs - as keeping warm is a waste of energy

Finally look at hard feed, although personally I'd prefer to get more hay into them


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## skint1 (1 February 2011)

What about Calm and Condition as a feed? That has worked well for our TB.
Also, lots of forage like good quality haylage/hay and lots of turnout is good too.


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## Tiny Fluffy Coblet (1 February 2011)

Oil - cheap veg oil from the supermarket - is a good way to add in extra calories without it costing a fortune or fizzing up with sugar. up to 500ml a day can be fed.


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## MM&PP (1 February 2011)

SmartieBean09 said:



			Money is a bit tight for the girl but she is currently feeding her horse twice daily:

1 scoop of Hi Fi Senior
1 scoop of Wheat Bran
Balancer
1 scoop of Sugarbeet (soaked)

Stabled overnight with adlib hay and Ryegrass Haylage.
		
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Is he fed all of that twice a day? Or split over two feeds? A horses stomach can only digest a small amount of food at one time (around one scoop), so chances are the horse is not able to properly break down all of the above food and so a lot of it is being wasted and going straight out the other end! Can the above feeds be split over 3 or 4 feeds a day?


I would also turn him out, well-rugged, 24/7. If he stressy in his stable and settles in the field, why leave him stabled??

Agree with the comments about the bran. Mine doesn't winter well, and did very poorly last winter on (expensive) D&H build up mix, SB, barley, chaff etcetc. This year I have him on a decent 1/2 scoop of h&p nuts, 1/2 scoop of speedibeet and a bit of mollichaff as well as pink powder and he is looking the best he has ever been (and it is cheap!). He is also out 24/7.


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## cellie (1 February 2011)

My tbx mare had 5 homes in two years only one of the  owner/loaners could ride her she was  very anxious and stressy and  the only feed that I found  helped was allen and paige calm and condition fast fibre  and ozzie chaff.I cant feed her  dengie chaff as it hots her up.If she needs extra condition I increase her fast  fibre or add oil she is on add lib  haylage .Fibre all the way for  me .The only calmer that has ever worked for her is supercalm but each horse is different it helps  keep her focused.


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## applecart14 (1 February 2011)

SmartieBean09 said:



			Not for me, but for a lovely young girl at the stables who has asked me to ask you wonderful HHO's for some much needed advice.

All the usual checks done, such as teeth and worming but no vet check as yet.

Money is a bit tight for the girl but she is currently feeding her horse twice daily:

1 scoop of Hi Fi Senior
1 scoop of Wheat Bran
Balancer
1 scoop of Sugarbeet (soaked)

Stabled overnight with adlib hay and Ryegrass Haylage.

Horse is in lightwork, 16.1hh, very poor and very stressy!

He is continuing to lose weight.  

What would you suggest he is fed, trying to keep things as cheap as possible for her.

Thanks everyone for your help 

Click to expand...

My first horse Biggles was a TBxWB and very stressy, cantering sidewards for nearly all his life whenever you rode him and always on the go!  He never put on any weight and was so ribby until I started feeding Bailey's No 1 and Burgess Supa Barley Rings.  The Supa Barley Rings in particular were very effective.  It was years ago so words like  teeth rasping weren't really on everyones lips.


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## NELSON11 (1 February 2011)

Mmm sorry haven't had time to read all replies but what springs to mind is possible gastric ulcers.

Has she considered that?


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## leflynn (1 February 2011)

Cheap veg oil as above works a treat along with being well rugged!

My younger one dropped a lot of weight over a weekend and after a quick check over and some vit injections I upped the veg oil and fed it with D&H Build up mix (1.5 times the suggested amount) and a good scoop of sugar beet, 2 months later he's now a bit fat lol and eats all of his hay and anything hay looking.....  Previously he would forget his hay was there and windsuck instead!

If he's not eating his hay is he doing something else instead or does he just not fancy it? A friend of mine used to either get the juice off the soaked sugarbeet and soak or squirt it over the hay or use guiness for the same effect.  It can work at making them eat hay.


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## SmartieBean09 (1 February 2011)

Hello everyone,

Thank so much for all of your replies.  Some great suggestions!  Unfortunately I have been out all day so only managed to speak to the girl this morning.  She has just called me say that she has been to the feed shop and this her new feeding plan (which of course will be introduced slowly):

A tub trug of Graze on, small amount of Sugarbeet to dampen and left over Hi Fi to pick at through the night.

2 feeds of:

1/2 Stubbs scoop Build up Mix
1/2 Sugarbeet
1/2 scoop Graze on
Pink Powder
Oil

ad lib Ryegrass haylage and hay.

I will also suggest he lives out and see where we get.

Thanks again every one.  Fingers crossed we see an improvement.


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