# Introducing Lindeza (lin-day-za)



## ycbm (2 June 2020)

By popular request,  introducing my new PRE mare Alto Lindeza, pronounced lin-day-za (correction, in Portuguese), meaning beautiful in Spanish and Portuguese.  At the moment she is called Deza for short,  but we will see if that sticks,  it's early days.

For those who didn't follow a thread I set up to try and find a third horse, the story is almost unbelievable.  I started that thread because I was toying with the idea of getting a young third horse to take over from my thoroughbred Muffin when he was older.  After that thread had been running a while I got a disastrous set of x rays on Muffin's neck and back, the heat made his arthritis much worse (all on another thread if you want the detail)  and I had to change my search to a serious need for a companion for Ludo so I could have Muffin put to sleep.  

With the valiant attempts of a host of HHOers to find me a horse in an insanely hot market where they were selling unseen within hours of being advertised,  I made an offer on a four year old little tb x cob who wasn't too far away, planning to buy her unseen as her yard remains in lockdown to strangers for another month. My offer was ignored, after thinking the deal was almost done, and I assumed the owner was offended by me offering £300 below her asking price. 

So I contacted all the charities and a local trekking centre to try to find a loan of a horse for the summer to bridge the gap between finding a new horse and losing Muffin. At this point I firmed up that if i was going to lose a horse I loved that I would finally buy what I have wanted for a long time,  a PRE.  I arranged with a lovely  HHOer that she would source me one when she was next in Spain.  

 Then the trekking centre contacted me to agree a loan of one of their furloughed horses, and said 'you wouldn't like to buy one would you?'. I replied that I would,  but that I had decided only to buy a PRE.  'Well we have two home bred graded PRE mares for sale.  I nearly fell off the chair.  

The following morning,  Saturday,  we went to see the younger one of the two.  I was reeling, stressed out by Muffin, and quite honestly I'd probably have bought her if she had three legs. I just about recognised that she was a good horse,  and there was no obvious reason to turn her down.  

On Sunday I got a message from the owner of the tb x cob accepting my offer and apologising for having missed my message.  If she hadn't,  I would have bought that and never have contacted the trekking centre. Talk about 'things that are meant to be are meant to be'! 

I picked her up yesterday afternoon,  after briefly sitting on her for the first time.  She is seven years old and has just been backed.  The breeders prefer to wait until they are mature to back them.  This time I realised quite what a stunning and lovely mare she is. 

This morning I loved her even more,  and when we had a little ride  including her first trot under saddle, I burst into tears.  She has a mouth like butter,  rounds up by instinct, carries so much weight on her back end purely by how she is built, and incredibly sensitive.  She stops on a sixpence if I  stop my hips from moving with her.  

What a topsy turvy way to find the horse of my dreams.  And by the way,  Spanish horse owners,  now I understand why you say riding one is like no other horse.  It's true.  

She is beautiful looking,  has the kindest eye,  and is gentle and a little insecure.  She's in the eighth biggest gullet plate WOW do,  but is exactly the right width for my hips.  Ludo loves her and shared his food bowl with her tonight,  showing her that minerals in grass nuts were OK. 

So here she is,  Deza.


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## twiggy2 (2 June 2020)

She looks lovely


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## LeneHorse (2 June 2020)

Pretty girl ❤️ hope you have many happy years together.


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## DabDab (2 June 2020)

Welcome Deza! I think you might turn into an HHO favourite


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## Cloball (2 June 2020)

So lovely to read ❤️ may have teared up a little, she sounds perfect.


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## doodle (2 June 2020)

Lovely 😊


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## cobgoblin (2 June 2020)

She looks well settled in already.


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## The Fuzzy Furry (2 June 2020)

Yay! V pleased for you


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## Mrs. Jingle (2 June 2020)

All the best horses come and find you if you are patient.  Congratulations she is a stunner. I wish you many,many happy years with her.


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## Evie91 (2 June 2020)

Beautiful. Think you have dropped on there!  😀


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## paddi22 (2 June 2020)

wow!! good luck!!


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## HufflyPuffly (2 June 2020)

I’m so pleased you have such a lovely horse to mend your broken heart x


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## Rosemary28 (2 June 2020)

She is lovely 😊 so pleased for you


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## dixie (2 June 2020)

She’s a cracker and in great condition seeing she’s been a broodmare. Looking forward to the updates.


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## EventingMum (2 June 2020)

So glad you are so happy with her! Looking forward to following her progress.


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## HashRouge (2 June 2020)

ycbm said:



			With the valiant attempts of a host of HHOers to find me a horse in an insanely hot Market where they were selling unseen within hours of being advertised,
		
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This is ycbm's very kind of saying that we interpreted her list of non-negotiable things very loosely and tried to make her buy everything from yearlings of completely the wrong breed, multiple greys (which she categorically said she didn't want), several Arabs that were far too small and at least one very elderly PRE. Well, at least we were enthusiastic!

You know I think Lindeza is absolutely beautiful and I really do think this was fated to happen. I absolutely cannot wait to follow your journey with her, please post lots of photos


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## Meredith (2 June 2020)

so happy for you


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## Cortez (2 June 2020)

Yep, I think that's a goodun'. I wish you all the luck in the world with her, it'll be interesting to see how you get on with her.

*Pedantic note - it's pronounced "Lin-day-tha" (but only if you're in Spain - you call her what you like).


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## ester (2 June 2020)

Now she does need a different headcollar, she sounds far too lovely for that!


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## HashRouge (2 June 2020)

Cortez said:



			Yep, I think that's a goodun'. I wish you all the luck in the world with her, it'll be interesting to see how you get on with her.

*Pedantic note - it's pronounced "Lin-day-tha" (but only if you're in Spain - you call her what you like).
		
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She'll have to be Portuguese - they pronounce it more or less as ycbm is doing


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## shortstuff99 (2 June 2020)

Welcome Deza, she is beautiful!


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## Cortez (2 June 2020)

HashRouge said:



			She'll have to be Portuguese - they pronounce it more or less as ycbm is doing 

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Gah, no! The PRE vs Lusitano wars will not allow that sort of miscegenation!


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## ycbm (2 June 2020)

HashRouge said:



			She'll have to be Portuguese - they pronounce it more or less as ycbm is doing 

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I checked out with a Spanish site online,  too!  But Daytha isn't going to work,  so Portuguese it is 🤣


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## ycbm (2 June 2020)

ester said:



			Now she does need a different headcollar, she sounds far too lovely for that! 

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That's theirs, I need to take it back.  My head was all over the place and I forgot to take one with me to fetch her.  

.


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## Cortez (2 June 2020)

You now have a wonderful vista of Spanish-themed PRE merchandise to delight you


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## ycbm (2 June 2020)

HashRouge said:



			This is ycbm's very kind of saying that we interpreted her list of non-negotiable things very loosely and tried to make her buy everything from yearlings of completely the wrong breed, multiple greys (which she categorically said she didn't want), several Arabs that were far too small and at least one very elderly PRE. Well, at least we were enthusiastic!
		
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🤣😂🤣

You have forgotten all the twice-the-stopgap-budget ones in Devon,  Scotland,  Kent and multiple other places I wouldn't be able to view them 🤣


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## MrsMozart (2 June 2020)

She sounds absolutely perfect. I'm very pleased for you lass.


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## Smitty (2 June 2020)

Woohoo 😁😁.    You will be able to join in the Spanish fiestas 😀


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## Ownedby4horses (2 June 2020)

She is absolutely lovely, I'm a great believer that horses find us for a reason. x


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## LadyGascoyne (2 June 2020)

So lovely! Absolutely gorgeous mare.


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## Roxylola (2 June 2020)

So pleased for you. She looks lovely


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## Peregrine Falcon (2 June 2020)

Beautiful mare. Some things are just meant to be. 😀


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## ycbm (2 June 2020)

Cortez said:



			You now have a wonderful vista of Spanish-themed PRE merchandise to delight you 

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I'm more likely to buy a carrot stick 🤣

.


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## Cortez (2 June 2020)

There's always the breed show at Hartpury......


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## ycbm (2 June 2020)

Cortez said:



			There's always the breed show at Hartpury......
		
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SHOWING!    Moi?   Puhlease.  🙄  🤣


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## AdorableAlice (2 June 2020)

Wishing you the very best of luck with your lovely new horse.  Lots to look forward to and a new life to look after.  I am a great believer in everything for a reason.


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## Wheels (2 June 2020)

Congratulations, she is really beautiful


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## criso (2 June 2020)

Cortez said:



			Yep, I think that's a goodun'. I wish you all the luck in the world with her, it'll be interesting to see how you get on with her.

*Pedantic note - it's pronounced "Lin-day-tha" (but only if you're in Spain - you call her what you like).
		
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She looks lovely and call her whatever you like.  

But as half Spanish it would be Lindetha in the centre of spain/castellano) but Lindessa in Andalucia and Extramadura.  

The second example here is good for a castellano pronunciation.  Ignore the first, it's  US.  

https://forvo.com/word/lindeza/


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## cobgoblin (2 June 2020)

ycbm said:



			🤣😂🤣

You have forgotten all the twice-the-stopgap-budget ones in Devon,  Scotland,  Kent and multiple other places I wouldn't be able to view them 🤣
		
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That was only because we were all scraping the barrel and some were sold in 10 minutes.


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## ycbm (2 June 2020)

I've already sorted the left fore,  by the way.  It looks like at some point a few months ago she hurt the heel because it's growing out a crack and the long toe on that one foot is a result of not properly weight bearing on that heel.  I was really pleased to find a reason why it was different from the other three. She was happy to put it on a stand and let me rasp it and it looks the same as the other now.  She has typical small feet for the breed and they are like rocks.  

.


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## ycbm (2 June 2020)

criso said:



			She looks lovely and call her whatever you like.  

But as half Spanish it would be Lindetha in the centre of spain/castellano) but Lindessa in Andalucia and Extramadura.  

The second example here is good for a castellano pronunciation.  Ignore the first, it's  US.  

https://forvo.com/word/lindeza/

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Ah, well they said she's Andalusian. I quite like the dayza pronunciation, as a name  but who knows,  she may name herself Daisy by next week 😁


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## ihatework (2 June 2020)

She was obviously meant to be 😁


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## ycbm (2 June 2020)

Oh I forgot to tell people who didn't see the other thread.  Her mother is grey, her father is bay,  her colour comes from her grandad who Mel Gibson rode in Braveheart  and Cortez has ridden him!


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## Squeak (2 June 2020)

She is absolutely gorgeous.  

Please keep us updated with many photos, although I shall be green with envy every time I look at them!


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## spookypony (2 June 2020)

She is so beautiful! And that pic looks like they've been together forever.


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## criso (2 June 2020)

ycbm said:



			Ah, well she's Andalusian. I quite like the dayza pronunciation, as a name  but who knows,  she may name herself Daisy by next week 😁
		
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So it would be Dessa in Andalucian, I like Daisy.  In Spain I would have edged towards Linda but not an English Linda. 

And if you do any competing welcome to the world of commentators struggling.  I had a Saint Francois and they always pronunced Saint the english way despite it clearly being french and couldn't manage Francois at all.  With my surname being difficult, we'd normally be starting on the jump off before they got to the end.   Current horse has a english name but part of it is Valour which for some reason every venue round here pronounces as Velour as in a velvet like material.


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## Cinnamontoast (2 June 2020)

ycbm said:



			I'm more likely to buy a carrot stick 🤣

.
		
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In which case we need Papa Frita!!

I think Daisy would be a fab stable name. Mine is nothing like his real name, I didn’t know it for a week!

How long was it between starting to look and finding her?


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## ycbm (2 June 2020)

criso said:



			So it would be Dessa in Andalucian, I like Daisy.  In Spain I would have edged towards Linda but not an English Linda. 

And if you do any competing welcome to the world of commentators struggling.  I had a Saint Francois and they always pronunced Saint the english way despite it clearly being french and couldn't manage Francois at all.  With my surname being difficult, we'd normally be starting on the jump off before they got to the end.   Current horse has a english name but part of it is Valour which for some reason every venue round here pronounces as Velour as in a velvet like material.
		
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one of my warmbloods was called Vulgaeus Majistralis. That was fun!


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## ycbm (2 June 2020)

Cinnamontoast said:



			In which case we need Papa Frita!!

I think Daisy would be a fab stable name. Mine is nothing like his real name, I didn’t know it for a week!

How long was it between starting to look and finding her?
		
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That's a difficult question to answer because what I was looking for changed three times during the search as Muffin's situation changed, and when I found her I'd given up looking and only contacted them for a loan horse.  And she hadn't been put up for sale because they hadn't finished backing her. She was sat on for me after I bought her.  

.


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## Cinnamontoast (2 June 2020)

ycbm said:



			one of my warmbloods was called Vulgaeus Majistralis. That was fun!
		
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Woah, tricky! Mine is Coloured Firefly, there was absolutely nothing I was gonna do with that!


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## albeg (2 June 2020)

Congratulations ycbm, she looks lovely. Hope you have lots of fun with her.


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## SashaBabe (2 June 2020)

She's beautiful.  I wish you all the luck in the world with her.


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## Crazy_cat_lady (2 June 2020)

She is absolutely beautiful I hope you have lots of fun with her, look forward to seeing a lot more photos with her, I'm definitely requesting a thread like Adorable Alice's Ted one so we can follow your adventures with her

You could almost write a book about how you came to find her it definitely sounds like fate.

Are you going to get the TB x co as well? I followed but didnt feel qualified to post on your search thread that you were possibly going to get a 3rd to bring on and sell or are you just going to focus on Lindeza for now? If I can recall she was the bay with white socks and blaze and looked really sweet.


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## Boulty (2 June 2020)

She looks gorgeous. Fate works in mysterious ways sometimes


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## OldNag (2 June 2020)

She is beautiful YCBM.  And very much meant to be. It is funny how life works sometimes. 

I did wonder if you were going to tell us you had ended up with the cob/TB as well 😀


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## Bellaboo18 (2 June 2020)

Well, if this doesn't prove somethings are meant to be, I don't know what could!😊
I'm really pleased for you; she's beautiful. Looking forward to all the updates!!


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## Nicnac (2 June 2020)

Very nice and lovely she found you.  She needs one of these....


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## ycbm (2 June 2020)

She really doesn't 🤣


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## Pearlsasinger (2 June 2020)

Congratulations on your find.  She looks lovely and so settled with Ludo.  Onwards and upwards, as they say.  Enjoy your new horse, she has a very important job to do.


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## ycbm (2 June 2020)

Crazy_cat_lady said:



			Are you going to get the TB x co as well? I followed but didnt feel qualified to post on your search thread that you were possibly going to get a 3rd to bring on and sell or are you just going to focus on Lindeza for now? If I can recall she was the bay with white socks and blaze and looked really sweet.
		
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No I have my hands full now with two young horses.  Ludo is of course way ahead of her in his training,  but he is still a backward five year old who I am taking slowly waiting for him to mature into his lanky frame.  And she's two years older but has done absolutely nothing.  The stopgap was to sell when I found a PRE but she found me before I could buy one 😃


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## Sam_J (2 June 2020)

Looking forward to more updates and definitely more photos!  I wish you many happy years together.


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## criso (2 June 2020)

Nicnac said:



View attachment 48867
Very nice and lovely she found you.  She needs one of these....

View attachment 48867

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I've got something similar only in red and blue that someone gave me.  I quite like it but it does make my tb look like a failed polo pony.


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## palo1 (2 June 2020)

ycbm said:



			By popular request,  introducing my new PRE mare Alto Lindeza, pronounced lin-day-za (correction, in Portuguese), meaning beautiful in Spanish and Portuguese.  At the moment she is called Deza for short,  but we will see if that sticks,  it's early days.

For those who didn't follow a thread I set up to try and find a third horse, the story is almost unbelievable.  I started that thread because I was toying with the idea of getting a young third horse to take over from my thoroughbred Muffin when he was older.  After that thread had been running a while I got a disastrous set of x rays on Muffin's neck and back, the heat made his arthritis much worse (all on another thread if you want the detail)  and I had to change my search to a serious need for a companion for Ludo so I could have Muffin put to sleep. 

With the valiant attempts of a host of HHOers to find me a horse in an insanely hot market where they were selling unseen within hours of being advertised,  I made an offer on a four year old little tb x cob who wasn't too far away, planning to buy her unseen as her yard remains in lockdown to strangers for another month. My offer was ignored, after thinking the deal was almost done, and I assumed the owner was offended by me offering £300 below her asking price.

So I contacted all the charities and a local trekking centre to try to find a loan of a horse for the summer to bridge the gap between finding a new horse and losing Muffin. At this point I firmed up that if i was going to lose a horse I loved that I would finally buy what I have wanted for a long time,  a PRE.  I arranged with a lovely  HHOer that she would source me one when she was next in Spain. 

Then the trekking centre contacted me to agree a loan of one of their furloughed horses, and said 'you wouldn't like to buy one would you?'. I replied that I would,  but that I had decided only to buy a PRE.  'Well we have two home bred graded PRE mares for sale.  I nearly fell off the chair. 

The following morning,  Saturday,  we went to see the younger one of the two.  I was reeling, stressed out by Muffin, and quite honestly I'd probably have bought her if she had three legs. I just about recognised that she was a good horse,  and there was no obvious reason to turn her down. 

On Sunday I got a message from the owner of the tb x cob accepting my offer and apologising for having missed my message.  If she hadn't,  I would have bought that and never have contacted the trekking centre. Talk about 'things that are meant to be are meant to be'!

I picked her up yesterday afternoon,  after briefly sitting on her for the first time.  She is seven years old and has just been backed.  The breeders prefer to wait until they are mature to back them.  This time I realised quite what a stunning and lovely mare she is.

This morning I loved her even more,  and when we had a little ride  including her first trot under saddle, I burst into tears.  She has a mouth like butter,  rounds up by instinct, carries so much weight on her back end purely by how she is built, and incredibly sensitive.  She stops on a sixpence if I  stop my hips from moving with her. 

What a topsy turvy way to find the horse of my dreams.  And by the way,  Spanish horse owners,  now I understand why you say riding one is like no other horse.  It's true. 

She is beautiful looking,  has the kindest eye,  and is gentle and a little insecure.  She's in the eighth biggest gullet plate WOW do,  but is exactly the right width for my hips.  Ludo loves her and shared his food bowl with her tonight,  showing her that minerals in grass nuts were OK.

So here she is,  Deza.


























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She looks fabulous and so does your spotted gentleman!  Very best of luck with her - it will be interesting to hear updates


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## PippiPony (2 June 2020)

Oh wow gorgeous.
I've had part Lippi's and they were great mares.  I'd love a Spanish or Portuguese horse.
Stunning.  Hope she makes you very happy


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## Nicnac (2 June 2020)

criso said:



			I've got something similar only in red and blue that someone gave me.  I quite like it but it does make my tb look like a failed polo pony.
		
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Apparently they're Argentinian where they speak Spanish - I couldn't find a Spanish headcollar to wind YCBM up so that's the nearest thing!


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## criso (2 June 2020)

Nicnac said:



			Apparently they're Argentinian where they speak Spanish - I couldn't find a Spanish headcollar to wind YCBM up so that's the nearest thing!
		
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Couldn't find a headcollar but how about something like this


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## shortstuff99 (2 June 2020)

Nicnac said:



			Apparently they're Argentinian where they speak Spanish - I couldn't find a Spanish headcollar to wind YCBM up so that's the nearest thing!
		
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The Spanish normally show in these, and here is a nice Spanish one 🤣


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## ycbm (2 June 2020)

criso said:



			Couldn't find a headcollar but how about something like this

View attachment 48869

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no No NO !!!


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## ycbm (2 June 2020)

shortstuff99 said:



			The Spanish normally show in these, and here is a nice Spanish one 🤣
	View attachment 48868

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Stop it,  or I'll go away and not come back and you'll never see her again  🤣


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## Nicnac (2 June 2020)

OMG the Viva Iberica website has some right shockers! Spanish starter set anyone?


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## criso (2 June 2020)

shortstuff99 said:



			The Spanish normally show in these, and here is a nice Spanish one 🤣
	View attachment 48868

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Colours of the Spanish flag, nice touch.


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## ycbm (2 June 2020)

palo1 said:



			She looks fabulous and so does your spotted gentleman!
		
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Ah,  he deserves an update of his own one day. The picture does him no justice.   He is awesome to ride,  he has the biggest paces and is so elastic he could star in the Incredibles. He's too stretchy for his own good,  so I am going very slowly with him,  but he's a natural at both lateral work and lengthening,  adjustable,  trainable,  desperate to please.  He's a joy.


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## shortstuff99 (2 June 2020)

ycbm said:



			Stop it,  or I'll go away and not come back and you'll never see her again  🤣
		
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I will be good, promise 🤣


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## Jeni the dragon (2 June 2020)

She is so pretty! I'm sure you will have an amazing time with her!


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## dogatemysalad (2 June 2020)

Congratulations, she's lovely. She's all set for a wonderful new life.


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## Mule (2 June 2020)

She is beautiful, I'm so happy for you. Ludo is such a gentleman


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## Goldenstar (2 June 2020)

She’s lovely have fun


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## Cinnamontoast (2 June 2020)

shortstuff99 said:



			The Spanish normally show in these, and here is a nice Spanish one 🤣
	View attachment 48868

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Ay caramba! Díos mio, just no, chicas! ¡Que tontería!


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## Pinkvboots (3 June 2020)

I am actually writing that down to translate


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## Cinnamontoast (3 June 2020)

Pinkvboots said:



			I am actually writing that down to translate
		
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It’s unusually clean for me! 😂


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## Pinkvboots (3 June 2020)

Cinnamontoast said:



			It’s unusually clean for me! 😂
		
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It will only translate certain words but I can imagine the rest


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## SatansLittleHelper (3 June 2020)

She's lovely but I'm very disappointed you wont get her the swanky Spanish bridle thingy 😥😥😂😂


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## Rumtytum (3 June 2020)

She’s beautiful! Am really looking forward to your updates and LOTS of pics.


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## little_critter (3 June 2020)

She is lovely. i got my current horse by fate, I had viewed a horse, liked him, he ticked all the sensible boxes (but wasn’t head over heels about him, but I was being sensible) made an offer and got him vetted....which he failed before he even left the stable. 
A forum friend said why not look at the horse her YO has for sale, he was about a hand bigger than I wanted and I initially said no, but my friend said he was a poppet, try him and if you don’t like him then you at least know not to budge on my size requirement. 
I LOVED HIM!!
So I’m very glad the first horse failed the vet, otherwise I’d have a horse that was ‘meh, ok’ rather than my boy who is fantastic.


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## Surbie (3 June 2020)

I missed all those threads - such a pity as I bet I could have found you an elderly grey with awful feet on the Isle of Wight to look at. 

She's really beautiful. I'm so pleased you found her after all the heartache with Muffin. Look forward to loads of pics and updates.

PS Can't believe you won't get her a Spanish bridley thingy with tassles on. If you like I could hot glue some diamantes on for ultimate dizzle-dazzle?


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## TheresaW (3 June 2020)

She’s lovely. I hope you have lots of fun with her.


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## ycbm (3 June 2020)

Surbie said:



			I missed all those threads - such a pity as I bet I could have found you an elderly grey with awful feet on the Isle of Wight to look at.
		
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🤣




			PS Can't believe you won't get her a Spanish bridley thingy with tassles on. If you like I could hot glue some diamantes on for ultimate dizzle-dazzle?
		
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🤢


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## ycbm (3 June 2020)

Cinnamontoast said:



			Ay caramba! Díos mio, just no, chicas! ¡Que tontería!
		
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If I understood a word of it I would completely agree 🤣


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## rabatsa (3 June 2020)

She looks a lovely mare.


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## Hannahgb (3 June 2020)

Shes gorgeous!


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## PictusSweetDreams (3 June 2020)

She’s wonderful, and I absolutely love Ludo! What a pair of beauties you have.


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## ITPersonnage (3 June 2020)

I too seem to have something in my eye, very happy for you she is divine.


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## Shady (3 June 2020)

Just perfect!
Can't wait to see a vid of her flinging those legs everywhere!
So happy for you. Welcome to the PRE owners club xxxx


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## Unicorn (3 June 2020)

ITPersonnage said:



			I too seem to have something in my eye, very happy for you she is divine.
		
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So do I.    I'm so pleased for you  - she's gorgeous


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## luckyoldme (3 June 2020)

She is stunning and im very jealous.
Theres a very similar looking beastie on the a69 just outside of Newcastle..I allways look out for it because its so easy on my eyes!


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## gunnergundog (3 June 2020)

Lovely ending to a sad tale.  Good luck!


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## Caol Ila (3 June 2020)

What a beautiful horse!


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## Errin Paddywack (3 June 2020)

She is absolutely drop dead gorgeous and so is Ludo.  You are going to have so much fun with two such fantastic horses.


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## Griffin (3 June 2020)

Oh she is just lovely!  I think that the right horse will always find you eventually and she obviously has  Ludo looks like a delight too.


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## Fraggle2 (3 June 2020)

So glad fate intervened and presented her to you at just the right time.
Look forward to following your progress with Ludo and your new lovely lady 😊


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## LaurenBay (3 June 2020)

She is lovely! I am a big believer in Fate! I think you were destined to have her


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## forumuser123 (3 June 2020)

Truly stunning. So glad you found each other.


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## BlackRider (3 June 2020)

Fabulous! She's gorgeous and looks very happy with Ludo 

looking forward to following her progress


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## tristar (3 June 2020)

sorry about muffin,  welcome to deza and all the new joys to come


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## blodwyn1 (3 June 2020)

How did the introduction to ludo go? They look very settled already.


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## ycbm (3 June 2020)

blodwyn1 said:



			How did the introduction to ludo go? They look very settled already.
		
Click to expand...

They went out together after a she had been here a couple of hours.  Neither of them have so much as squealed.  I bought Ludo from the field where he was running with his mares and I saw how respectful he was of them.  I was sure about him,  and when Deza didn't squeal at him over a door,  I was confident that she wasn't going to give him a hard time.  They are very quiet together and they will share a haynet. Let's hope that lasts.  He could do with a buddy, Muffin and he weren't close friends.

This is them outside right now,  agreeing that premium oat straw is not edible


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## Cortez (3 June 2020)

SatansLittleHelper said:



			She's lovely but I'm very disappointed you wont get her the swanky Spanish bridle thingy 😥😥😂😂
		
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Give us time.....


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## Cinnamontoast (3 June 2020)

Surbie said:



			PS Can't believe you won't get her a Spanish bridley thingy with tassles on. If you like I could hot glue some diamantes on for ultimate dizzle-dazzle?
		
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Are we now vajazzling bridles?!


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## Cortez (3 June 2020)

This is nice and subtle .......(but it's Portuguese).


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## ycbm (3 June 2020)

Cortez said:



View attachment 48922
 This is nice and subtle.......(but it's Portuguese).
		
Click to expand...

Oh my giddy aunt ...  I'm almost speechless.  

You'd have to pay me. 


A lot.  

.


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## Cortez (3 June 2020)

ycbm said:



			Oh my giddy aunt ...  I'm almost speechless. 

You'd have to pay me.


A lot. 

.
		
Click to expand...

I am partial to a bit of bling, but that one is quite revolting  
How about this one? 
	
 It's not Spanish either (Tibetan)


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## ycbm (3 June 2020)

Cortez said:



			I am partial to a bit of bling, but that one is quite revolting  
How about this one? 
	View attachment 48923
 It's not Spanish either (Tibetan)
		
Click to expand...

I'll take it if it's gold. 

And melt it down.  

.


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## Cortez (3 June 2020)

I have more.....

But seriously, should you ever decide to "go Spanish" (for the breed show, say - which has classes for everything, from pure dressage to traditional Spanish Doma Vaquera, Alta Escuela, Parade & Feria (in Spanish Dress), etc.), it is a lovely style, with everything quite sober and traditional.  Never say no!


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## Surbie (3 June 2020)

Cinnamontoast said:



			Are we now vajazzling bridles?!
		
Click to expand...

Oh hell yeah, HHO Secret Santa has transformed my views on sparkles and glitter. Plus I *may* have watched far too much Drag Race during lockdown.


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## criso (3 June 2020)

Surbie said:



			PS Can't believe you won't get her a Spanish bridley thingy with tassles on.
		
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To to be fair the tassels are purely practical for flies.


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## thefarsideofthefield (3 June 2020)

She is just WOW !
When I look back over the years at all the horses I've ever owned I can now see there is a sort of pattern to it . They all teach you something and every single one , even the wrong or broken ones that break your heart at the time , lead you on to the next . They all pass through your life for a reason and , in retrospect , my best horses have been the ones that I wouldn't have found if it hadn't been for the horse that came before them . For the ones that I've lost I like to think that their purpose was to guide me on to the next .
Maybe it was always meant to be .


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## TheOldTrout (3 June 2020)

She's gorgeous. Looking forward to seeing lots more photos of her!


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## Goldenstar (3 June 2020)

Cortez said:



			I am partial to a bit of bling, but that one is quite revolting  
How about this one? 
	View attachment 48923
 It's not Spanish either (Tibetan)
		
Click to expand...

Oh I use those for riding out .


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## thefarsideofthefield (3 June 2020)

Cortez said:



View attachment 48922
 This is nice and subtle .......(but it's Portuguese).
		
Click to expand...

That's weird ! This was my OH's outfit for the village Christmas party last year .


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## ycbm (3 June 2020)

Goldenstar said:



			Oh I use those for riding out .
		
Click to expand...


🤣


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## Barlow (3 June 2020)

Congratulations! So pleased it all worked out - these things often have a weird way of doing so!
She must be a relation of my old PRE - he was also a grandson of Jardineiro. 
I’m afraid I went to the dark side though and now have a PSL!


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## Cortez (3 June 2020)

Goldenstar said:



			Oh I use those for riding out .
		
Click to expand...


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## cobgoblin (3 June 2020)

You need a nice Spanish hat ycbm..

https://www.flamencoexport.com/img/2019/Boshi/canotiers/sombrero-cordobes-rocio.jpg


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## Cortez (3 June 2020)

cobgoblin said:



			You need a nice Spanish hat ycbm..

https://www.flamencoexport.com/img/2019/Boshi/canotiers/sombrero-cordobes-rocio.jpg

Click to expand...

Oh gods no! A proper Spanish hat is a thing of great craftsmanship & beauty.


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## ycbm (3 June 2020)

cobgoblin said:



			You need a nice Spanish hat ycbm..

https://www.flamencoexport.com/img/2019/Boshi/canotiers/sombrero-cordobes-rocio.jpg

Click to expand...


I haven't got the hair to carry it off 😂

.


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## Cortez (3 June 2020)

....or you could get a few more and put together your own "cobra" of mares....they are shown this way, all joined together by the neck collars, walking & turning as one. There's a great art and pride in training and presenting the mares of the stud together. The sound of the bells takes me straight back to Spain....


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## cobgoblin (3 June 2020)

Cortez said:



			Oh gods no! A proper Spanish hat is a thing of great craftsmanship & beauty.
View attachment 48929

Click to expand...

It was the worst I could find!

I have found a Spanish tandem saddle though, which amused me..

https://www.google.com/search?q=Spa...d=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#imgrc=U3kAhWtLcMtJfM

.


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## Cortez (3 June 2020)

ycbm said:



			I haven't got the hair to carry it off 😂

.
		
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No self respecting Spanish Senora would go about like that! I'll find a pic....


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## cobgoblin (3 June 2020)

ycbm said:



			I haven't got the hair to carry it off 😂

.
		
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Stick a fake bun on.


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## Cortez (3 June 2020)

This is more the style...


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## ycbm (3 June 2020)

Have you finished 🤣😂🤣?



I've ridden her on my own today.  I had to move the steps about six times,  but when she settled she stood like a rock for me to get on.  She was more nervous than yesterday,  when she was just banjaxed by the move,  but she was a good girl and didn't do anything silly.  

I changed her bit from the lozenge recommended to a straight bar and she was a lot more settled in her mouth.  I'm going to try her in Ludo's Happy Tongue Bomber tomorrow.  

I managed to get her to eat about half a feed,  and the pair grudgingly accepted that straw was edible when they were starving 😆   The straw is for her,  Ludo will need more bucket food but that's easy.

She is the sweetest creature. I can't believe my luck.  

.


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## cobgoblin (3 June 2020)

You'll need the Spanish riding boots too.


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## ycbm (3 June 2020)

Cortez said:



			....or you could get a few more and put together your own "cobra" of mares....they are shown this way, all joined together by the neck collars, walking & turning as one. There's a great art and pride in training and presenting the mares of the stud together. The sound of the bells takes me straight back to Spain....
View attachment 48930

Click to expand...


Deza clones!

She's gone to Deeza, by the way,  Dayza was too hard sounding for such a softy. 

Daisy is a  cow's name 😆

.


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## Cortez (3 June 2020)

I'll stop bombing your thread now, but my Spanish boots are the most comfortable thing to ride in *ever*. And Deeza is a nice sounding name (clones? Yes, she's very typey  ).


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## ycbm (3 June 2020)

Cortez said:



			I'll stop bombing your thread now, but my Spanish boots are the most comfortable thing to ride in *ever*. And Deeza is a nice sounding name (clones? Yes, she's very typey  ).
		
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I'm  really pleased to hear you say that she's typey,  because there was no point in me buying Spanish if it wasn't typically Spanish.  Her face is slightly convex, too,  so I have no idea why she was graded as having a straight face at four,  because its not straight at seven.  

.


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## Cortez (3 June 2020)

Do you know her sire? Because I may have a picture....


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## ycbm (3 June 2020)

Cortez said:



			Do you know her sire? Because I may have a picture....
		
Click to expand...


Alto Coronel. This is him. Would love to see your pic, did you meet him in person?


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## DabDab (3 June 2020)

Wow, I would have bought her on the strength of the sire alone. He is drop dead


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## Cortez (3 June 2020)

Yep, here is is again: he was our demo horse when I did the PRE judges training course a few years ago (at the place you bought her from).


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## ycbm (3 June 2020)

Fantastic!  Thankyou. I'm glad she didn't get dad's socks, though.


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## ycbm (3 June 2020)

DabDab said:



			Wow, I would have bought her on the strength of the sire alone. He is drop dead
		
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She's very like him, she moves like that too   

.


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## Cortez (3 June 2020)

ycbm said:



			Fantastic!  Thankyou. I'm glad she didn't get dad's socks, though.
		
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Me too: the Spanish don't like any white on their horses, and neither do I  I wasn't mad about him until he moved....then I "got" him. He's a really kind horse too.


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## Cinnamontoast (3 June 2020)

Cortez said:



View attachment 48922
 This is nice and subtle .......(but it's Portuguese).
		
Click to expand...

Dear Lord! I thought this was a horse forum, not an S&M one! 😱🦯


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## splashgirl45 (3 June 2020)

so pleased for you ycbm, it was meant to be after such heartache....have fun with her and keep the pics coming


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## SEL (4 June 2020)

She's stunning! Obviously meant to be after all your heart ache


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## ForeverBroke_ (4 June 2020)

Wow, what a great story - totally meant to be.

Can't wait to watch your updates. 

She's beautiful.


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## ycbm (4 June 2020)

She has come in every morning shaking like a leaf,  poor girlie. I don't think she's cold,  it seems to be nerves,  and she calms down after she has been handled.

I rode her again and she is taking less each time to stand still for the mounting block.  It was raining and she was a bit 'up' and I was in two minds but I told myself just to get on with it and she was fine.  She wanted to trot but accepted being told to walk,  and when we did trot her legs were going everywhere!  She hasn't got any idea of staying on a track or even on a straight line,  she really is just backed.  

I love her.  I think she is absolutely beautiful.  I couldn't see it when I bought her on Saturday, I just saw a nervous horse who could throw me a bunch of problems,    but I can now.  She's wonderful,  a dream come true. 

.


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## Cinnamontoast (4 June 2020)

I'm really looking forward to seeing her progress, she sounds amazing and sweet.


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## PurBee (4 June 2020)

Great news you found more than you were looking for...she’s also a very lucky horse to have a home with you.
She looks uncannily like my arabxwelsh d mare from the full body pic.
looking forward to hearing of your adventures and pics!🙂


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## Cortez (4 June 2020)

I feel that you are succumbing to the Spanish magic  Once you've found the key, they learn like lightning, turn themselves inside out to please, get upset if they can't figure out what you want, and always try, try, try. And of course they are astoundingly beautiful, made in the likeness of angels.......


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## Shady (4 June 2020)

ycbm said:



			She has come in every morning shaking like a leaf,  poor girlie. I don't think she's cold,  it seems to be nerves,  and she calms down after she has been handled.

I rode her again and she is taking less each time to stand still for the mounting block.  It was training and she was a bit 'up' and I was in two minds but I told myself just to get on with it and she was fine.  She wanted to trot but accepted being told to walk,  and when we did trot her legs were going everywhere!  She hasn't got any idea of staying on a track or even on a straight line,  she really is just backed. 

I love her.  I think she is absolutely beautiful.  I couldn't see it when I bought her on Saturday, I just saw a nervous horse who could throw me a bunch of problems,    but I can now.  She's wonderful,  a dream come true.

.
		
Click to expand...

'' I told you so '' about how much you would love her and how quickly it would happen.  xxx


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## ycbm (4 June 2020)

Cortez said:



			I feel that you are succumbing to the Spanish magic  Once you've found the key, they learn like lightning, turn themselves inside out to please, get upset if they can't figure out what you want, and always try, try, try. And of course they are astoundingly beautiful, made in the likeness of angels.......
		
Click to expand...


I've got it.  I understand why people say they are different,  They are.  She has a depth of soul,  for want of a better expression,  that I have never experienced in a horse before.  

.


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## ycbm (4 June 2020)

Shady said:



			'' I told you so '' about how much you would love her and how quickly it would happen.  xxx
		
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Smartass 🤣


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## Shady (4 June 2020)

ycbm said:



			Smartass 🤣
		
Click to expand...

Hehe.
Rob always says Preferido has layers like an onion ! obviously I have made all the Shrek Ogre comparison jokes just to annoy .

I meant to add earlier that all the ones I have met over here ( including ours) like a routine and it's important to them. Preferido loves his stable and absolutely won't stay out at night. I would imagine that Deeza is the same and after 7 years in a certain routine is probably a little thrown by her new one.
I really am so happy for you Ycbm. Listen to you with the soul talk too !!!! xxxxx


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## paddy555 (4 June 2020)

ycbm said:



			I've got it.  I understand why people say they are different,  They are.  She has a depth of soul,  for want of a better expression,  that I have never experienced in a horse before. 

.
		
Click to expand...

I'm glad you are getting on so well. Any ridden pics or preferably video?? just a bit of walking, don't expect much


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## ycbm (4 June 2020)

paddy555 said:



			I'm glad you are getting on so well. Any ridden pics or preferably video?? just a bit of walking, don't expect much 

Click to expand...


Soon.  Gearing up the video man for Saturday if the weather is kind.  

.


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## Clodagh (4 June 2020)

ycbm said:



			Soon.  Gearing up the video man for Saturday if the weather is kind. 

.
		
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Oh don’t do it! I can’t bear the oh she’s lame comments.


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## blodwyn1 (4 June 2020)

Hopefully that will allow time for her spanish bridle to arrive!


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## Chinchilla (4 June 2020)

stunning, love her, and the happy ending you got ycbm


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## criso (4 June 2020)

blodwyn1 said:



			Hopefully that will allow time for her spanish bridle to arrive!
		
Click to expand...

And YCBM to get her spanish boots and hat.


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## Sleighfarer (4 June 2020)

What a lovely mare. Looking forward to seeing her under saddle.


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## tristar (4 June 2020)

ycbm said:



			I'll take it if it's gold. 

And melt it down.  

.
		
Click to expand...

i love the red leather ones


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## tristar (4 June 2020)

ycbm said:



			Soon.  Gearing up the video man for Saturday if the weather is kind.  

.
		
Click to expand...


how about a black and white outfit, it would be very smart, black waistcoat etc, slimming too


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## ycbm (4 June 2020)

tristar said:



			how about a black and white outfit, it would be very smart, black waistcoat etc, slimming too
		
Click to expand...


Oh, I do ride her in a black waistcoat.


It's got an airbag in it 😂


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## Sam_J (4 June 2020)

Please keep posting updates (and more pics!) I love reading them.


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## ycbm (4 June 2020)

Clodagh said:



			Oh don’t do it! I can’t bear the oh she’s lame comments. 

Click to expand...

I agree with you Clodagh, it happens every time.   Whilst it's possible that I only ride lame horses, I think it's unlikely.   I will stick with frame grabs and share video with friends only.  Thanks for the reminder!

.


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## Roxylola (4 June 2020)

ycbm said:



			I agree with you Clodagh, it happens every time.   Whilst it's possible that I only ride lame horses, I think it's unlikely.   I will stick with frame grabs and share video with friends only.  Thanks for the reminder!

.
		
Click to expand...

I actually think that almost any horse unless it's super forward looks lame on film, and I've come to the conclusion that it must be something to do with shutter speed and playback speeds. I honestly think it's at least partially a tech issue.


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## tristar (5 June 2020)

i`m lame till i`m warmed up


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## Ish2020 (5 June 2020)

Congrats she is very pretty


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## Roxylola (5 June 2020)

tristar said:



			i`m lame till i`m warmed up
		
Click to expand...

I think these days I'm mechanically unsound, I'd never pass a flexion test


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## ycbm (5 June 2020)

I've just made her trot loose round the barn to show her to a friend.  
Knees up to her chin 😁.  She certainly moves those legs! 

No riding today,  the wind is awful and I'm tired.  

.


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## tallyho! (6 June 2020)

Gawjuss!


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## tallyho! (6 June 2020)

I'd like a PRE in every colour one day


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## Apercrumbie (6 June 2020)

She's gorgeous! How wonderful that you have found each other.

Now in your OP you mentioned that there were two...….dare I ask?


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## ycbm (6 June 2020)

Apercrumbie said:



			She's gorgeous! How wonderful that you have found each other.

Now in your OP you mentioned that there were two...….dare I ask?
		
Click to expand...



If I want another? Definitely not,  got my hands full 😁


She's eaten up her bucket food for the first time today,  with about 1/3 of her minerals in,  so I can start increasing those to get her to full dose. It's a terrible cold and wet day so I've put a rug on her,  and I tried to do it without a headcollar on. (I've done it in a stable,  but this was in the barn), and she's stamped on my foot when I was wearing light shoes.  So that's two firsts,  eating up and an injury 😆  

I have a policy of getting on her at least every other day,  so I don't let silly fears build up.  This is the fourth time of riding,  the third time on my own,  and this time she only moved away from the step once,  then stood like a rock while I got on and waited until I told her to move off. Soon I will be taking her to the steps instead of taking the steps to her.  

There was another first today,  being touched with a whip to back up my leg.  She is very stop-start,  the moment anything confuses or unbalances her she slams on the brakes.  I'm not even going to start nagging her with my legs,  so I touched her bottom about as lightly as it's possible to do it,  and she was fine with it,  and once I'd done it once, she took the point,  and carried on walking at just a small leg aid. Talk about quick learner. 

Horses do make you laugh,  don't they? 

It was freezing,  pelting with rain with hail in it and they were on the barn at 6.30 this morning ignoring a trug of straw chop.  I went out at nine,  gave them some bucket food, tacked her up and took her back into the barn.  I walked her about past the various objects I leave in there for them to play with,  including an old rug.   No reaction, of course,  she's seen it for hours every day for the last five days.  

But when I got on board and tried to ride past it,  it was a different story altogether!  Eyes on stalks,  backing away as if it was suddenly terrifying just because I was on her.  Silly girl   It didn't take more than a few seconds to persuade her to walk past it, which gives me confidence for when we start to hack.  

It couldn't really being going much better with a newly backed horse right now 😊

.


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## Cortez (6 June 2020)

On the stop-start thing, that'll be your weight shifting - they are incredibly sensitive to the seat. She will learn to ignore it, or you can learn to sit still  (meant very kindly BTW, not throwing any aspidistras).


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## ycbm (6 June 2020)

Cortez said:



			On the stop-start thing, that'll be your weight shifting - they are incredibly sensitive to the seat. She will learn to ignore it, or you can learn to sit still  (meant very kindly BTW, not throwing any aspidistras).
		
Click to expand...


I've worked out how to stop her deliberately with my seat, which the OH couldn't even see I was doing.  A minute reduction in movement of my pelvis. But I'm doing something so incredibly tiny to make her stop without me meaning her to that I am going to need to desensitise her a tiny bit,  but not too much. She did it with their rider too, it's her go-to of she is remotely insecure about anything.  

.


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## Cortez (6 June 2020)

Oh, and BTW the biggest problem I've encountered with UK riders & Spanish horses is spooking (and that's how I ended up with the horse in my avatar, who was unrideable): if they are feeling any kind of fear from the rider, if they are not confidant in you, they will spook. I have ridden countless hot-as-tabasco fiery horses in Spain, in mad ferias, up the main street of towns; never had one spook, or even seen one do so there. So, all you need is an iron seat, the machismo of a young, hot Spanish man out to impress his mates and nerves/self belief of steel and you're good to go 

P.S. The horses are brave enough to fight a bull off of, but they have to believe you are too....


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## ycbm (6 June 2020)

I'm good with that Cortez, she's getting firmly but kindly told that nothing is in any way frightening.  We ride on past and forget it,  she doesn't get reassured by me because all that does is tell them they are right to be worried.  She gets told she's a good girl after she's walked on, not before.  

She's  a real sweetheart, everything is well ahead of schedule so far.  We have walk,  stop,  trot on, back to walk,  basic steering left and right,  basic leg yield (essential for road work)  and I'm looking forward to the weather being good enough to get back out on the arena to let her go forwards more,  because she's very keen to move and the barn is too small. 

.


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## ycbm (6 June 2020)

Cortez said:



			So, all you need is .... the machismo of a young, hot Spanish man out to impress his mates and nerves/self belief of steel and you're good to go 
.
		
Click to expand...

Could I have the young hot Spanish man as well?  🤣 

.


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## palo1 (6 June 2020)

So, all you need is an iron seat, the machismo of a young, hot Spanish man out to impress his mates and nerves/self belief of steel and you're good to go 

This is what all horses need!!


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## ycbm (6 June 2020)

palo1 said:



			So, all you need is an iron seat, the machismo of a young, hot Spanish man out to impress his mates and nerves/self belief of steel and you're good to go 

This is what all horses need!! 

Click to expand...


So true!   I have always said (and often been disagreed with)  that the most important thing when you back a horse is not your riding skill,  it's your confidence.  

Obviously it helps if you can actually ride too, but the confidence is key, imo. 

Now, where can I find that hot young Spaniard 😂 ?

.


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## Apercrumbie (6 June 2020)

ycbm said:



			If I want another? Definitely not,  got my hands full 😁

.
		
Click to expand...

I might have meant for me 😁


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## ycbm (6 June 2020)

Apercrumbie said:



			I might have meant for me 😁
		
Click to expand...


Go for it!   They have her 9 year old bay half sister, also just about backed in think,   and some older brood mares because they have given up breeding.


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## LadyGascoyne (6 June 2020)

ycbm said:



			Go for it!   They have her 9 year old bay half sister, also just about backed in think,   and some older brood mares because they have given up breeding.
		
Click to expand...

I have enquired about the older mares 😂

Awaiting some photos.


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## tristar (6 June 2020)

tallyho! said:



			I'd like a PRE in every colour one day 

Click to expand...


nothing but a shining silver for me


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## Sam_J (6 June 2020)

LadyGascoyne said:



			I have enquired about the older mares 😂

Awaiting some photos.
		
Click to expand...

Oooh, how exciting!  Please keep us posted.


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## tristar (6 June 2020)

ycbm said:



			I'm good with that Cortez, she's getting firmly but kindly told that nothing is in any way frightening.  We ride on past and forget it,  she doesn't get reassured by me because all that does is tell them they are right to be worried.  She gets told she's a good girl after she's walked on, not before.  

She's  a real sweetheart, everything is well ahead of schedule so far.  We have walk,  stop,  trot on, back to walk,  basic steering left and right,  basic leg yield (essential for road work)  and I'm looking forward to the weather being good enough to get back out on the arena to let her go forwards more,  because she's very keen to move and the barn is too small. 


less fuss the better,  mine would take me through hell, hope the weather picks up soon

.
		
Click to expand...


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## tristar (6 June 2020)

Cortez said:



			Oh, and BTW the biggest problem I've encountered with UK riders & Spanish horses is spooking (and that's how I ended up with the horse in my avatar, who was unrideable): if they are feeling any kind of fear from the rider, if they are not confidant in you, they will spook. I have ridden countless hot-as-tabasco fiery horses in Spain, in mad ferias, up the main street of towns; never had one spook, or even seen one do so there. So, all you need is an iron seat, the machismo of a young, hot Spanish man out to impress his mates and nerves/self belief of steel and you're good to go 

P.S. The horses are brave enough to fight a bull off of, but they have to believe you are too....
		
Click to expand...


be in awe, and know that they will not let you down,


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## planete (6 June 2020)

I have witnessed the (slightly mad) bravery first hand. The hay delivery truck was backing towards the shed when the Spanish horse  next door whose paddock was separated from mine by electric tape decided to see the monster off by charging at it repeatedly, thankfully held in check by the tape!  He was from a bull fighting line I believe.


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## Cortez (6 June 2020)

ycbm said:



			Could I have the young hot Spanish man as well?  🤣

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 Sure: have two!


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## ycbm (6 June 2020)

Loving the high waist trouser look! 

.


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## Cinnamontoast (6 June 2020)

I can’t make my mind up re the sensitivity to aids: mine will stop if you tense your bum (!!) and you literally have to think about going left/right-I presume he feels a very slight shift. After a horse who needed firm aids, I was almost scared to ride him, he is very responsive. It’s how it should be, but I don’t think it’s terribly common and I’d say some riders have been taught to give really clear aids which aren’t always necessary.


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## planete (7 June 2020)

Cinnamontoast said:



			I can’t make my mind up re the sensitivity to aids: mine will stop if you tense your bum (!!) and you literally have to think about going left/right-I presume he feels a very slight shift. After a horse who needed firm aids, I was almost scared to ride him, he is very responsive. It’s how it should be, but I don’t think it’s terribly common and I’d say some riders have been taught to give really clear aids which aren’t always necessary.
		
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Riding a friend's Luso stallion for the first time, I found myself facing the way we had just come after approaching a corner in the school and 'preparing' for the turn.  I was then told that just turning my head would alter my body balance enough to tell him all he needed to know.


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## turnbuckle (7 June 2020)

Sorry, have just looked at this.......my God a happy story thread is balm in these times. Grinning.


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## HufflyPuffly (7 June 2020)

This thread makes me all fuzzy inside, I’m so pleased for you ycbm ☺️.

I had a lesson yesterday and was laughing that Skylla looks very ‘Spanish’ when ridden (from someone who has trained a lot of them) but apparently Skylla just makes it hard work rather than being as fabulous as a real one 😂. Maybe instead of an Arab I should try a Spanish horse next 😜.


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## rabatsa (7 June 2020)

Many years ago I was allowed to ride a corrida horse.  I was told before mounting to just think of the aids not to give them.  When I wanted canter I got a half pass and the instruction shouted across the arena was that I had thought too hard.


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## ycbm (7 June 2020)

rabatsa said:



			Many years ago I was allowed to ride a corrida horse.  I was told before mounting to just think of the aids not to give them.  When I wanted canter I got a half pass and the instruction shouted across the arena was that I had thought too hard.
		
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I was told this by the people I bought her from.  Think the aids.  

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## palo1 (7 June 2020)

Cortez said:



View attachment 49198
 Sure: have two!
		
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That's fine but please remember that I have bagsied their trousers so you may need to re-clothe them before they ride


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## palo1 (7 June 2020)

ycbm said:



			I was told this by the people I bought her from.  Think the aids. 

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This is exactly how it should be though isn't it? I have always thought that the aspiration for ridden and in-hand work and that is the reason that the best horses might be Arab/Spanish or other sensitive, responsive horses.  

 I think the comment about confidence/courage is soooo important and really the best gift a rider can give a horse (obviously coupled with a degree of skill and sensitivity).  Fear is probably the most destructive thing a rider can bring to the saddle yet having experienced that fear myself and the impact of it, we still don't emphasise courage, confidence and 'joy'  in our development as riders: in this country at least we seem obsessed with other (more boring and less fun imo) objectives!!  My wonderful hot-as-hell part bred arab (with appy!) taught me that if he could be so brave as a 3 year old then I needed to be too.  I know that I have many skill deficits which require work but I have wholeheartedly enjoyed the courage and fun that a good, brave horse brings us.   Lindeza sounds like she will be fabulous!!


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## cobgoblin (7 June 2020)

ycbm said:



			I was told this by the people I bought her from.  Think the aids.  

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That's how I was taught to ride.. Oddly enough by an Arab rider and a lusitano rider. 
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## Cortez (7 June 2020)

The down side of this, though is that riding "normal" horses becomes impossible. The last time I rode a non-Iberian horse was five years ago - a fancy WB - and it was like sitting on a particularly unintelligent log.


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## Shady (7 June 2020)

Cortez said:



			The down side of this, though is that riding "normal" horses becomes impossible. The last time I rode a non-Iberian horse was five years ago - a fancy WB - and it was like sitting on a particularly unintelligent log.
		
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This is so true and I remember a friend asking me how I'd felt her Trotter was to ride and I lied my arse off .


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## Shady (7 June 2020)

planete said:



			Riding a friend's Luso stallion for the first time, I found myself facing the way we had just come after approaching a corner in the school and 'preparing' for the turn.  I was then told that just turning my head would alter my body balance enough to tell him all he needed to know.
		
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This is one of the things I love about them the most( although my Arab does it too) but it's really hard to get your head around to start with. I let a few people ride the PRE but I can tell within a few seconds if he's going to enjoy the experience and iv'e cut many a hack short due to heels digging him a little too much and heavy hands. He is such a good horse that he'll put up with it to protect his rider but I just don't see why he should.


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## BBP (7 June 2020)

Cortez said:



			The down side of this, though is that riding "normal" horses becomes impossible. The last time I rode a non-Iberian horse was five years ago - a fancy WB - and it was like sitting on a particularly unintelligent log.
		
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This is my problem, whenever anyone asks me to ride their horses I just don’t want to. My sister has two lovely Connie crosses, they are great horses, responsive, polite, well mannered and I’m really fond of them, but they just aren’t my little PRE x and I have no desire to sit on anything that isn’t him.

I’m so glad you have found such a lovely horse ycbm, and that she is bringing you some well deserved happiness.


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## Landcruiser (7 June 2020)

Cortez said:



			The down side of this, though is that riding "normal" horses becomes impossible. The last time I rode a non-Iberian horse was five years ago - a fancy WB - and it was like sitting on a particularly unintelligent log.
		
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My retired criollo is/was like this. I put a 14 year old French student who had learned to ride at a Parisian riding school on him - and it was like she was sitting on a ball of quicksilver, he just kept going in all directions. She swore she wasn't doing anything at all, but her just picking up the reins sent him backwards, and her trying to stop going backwards sent him forwards, and her lack of balance sent him sideways - it was actually hilarious to watch. She literally couldn't ride him. Luckily for her,  younger criollo was/is  much  less sensitive so we swapped.


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## Clodagh (7 June 2020)

LadyGascoyne said:



			I have enquired about the older mares 😂

Awaiting some photos.
		
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Sorry, I hadn’t seen this.


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## palo1 (7 June 2020)

Cortez said:



			The down side of this, though is that riding "normal" horses becomes impossible. The last time I rode a non-Iberian horse was five years ago - a fancy WB - and it was like sitting on a particularly unintelligent log.
		
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Mmm but I think they are bred for that - so they can be precisely instructed in quite a particular way and possibly for a particular kind of rider.  It's  possible that the lack of thinking for themselves and the slightly less responsive horse is 'easier' in terms of the kind of life and competition that prevails with the kind of rider that wants that sort of horse.  Lots of generalisations there and I don't want to cause offence but I think that a horse that is that bit more sensitive and responsive needs a different kind of attitude which is not one that is essentially taught here in the UK.  The really sad thing I find is that some of the top horses (certainly not all) are quite 'mechanical' albeit 'correct' and they lose that wonderful personality and expression in their movement.  I often think of top dressage horses as wearing their 'office face' even when off duty!!  I have very little knowledge of higher level dressage - these are just observations of mine    I think we should encourage more appreciation of character and expression (if only for the spectators enjoyment!!)


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## ycbm (7 June 2020)

Cortez said:



			The down side of this, though is that riding "normal" horses becomes impossible. The last time I rode a non-Iberian horse was five years ago - a fancy WB - and it was like sitting on a particularly unintelligent log.
		
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I rode her this morning and I'm really understanding this.  If Ludo didn't have such enormous movement and flexibility, (and lovely character) he might be in trouble now    I'm confirming  all over again why I do so little with him even though he is five now,  he is still just too rubbery and leggy for his own strength to hold it all together for more than half an hour on the arena.  She,  on the other hand,  has two years on him in maturity and feels as if she is put together in an entirely different way.  She feels as if she is sat down behind the entire time.  Everything pushes from the back end.  It feels fabulous!  

I led her to the steps for the first time today instead of taking the steps to her.  She did one half step back, I repositioned the steps and got on.  This is the quickest I've ever been able to teach a horse that on my own.  

We did some walk and a bit of trot,  but we were inside the barn,  which is tiny (because it was raining 😠) so not much.  No issues at all.  I'm looking forward to getting her outside and asking for a canter.  

She's a lot calmer today,  and also ate up all her 'food' - a couple of handfuls of soaked grass nuts in oat straw chop with minerals.  I can feel her ribs now if I push a bit,  moving homes and the cold weather has just knocked off the bit of excess fat I was concerned about.  Hopefully the new regime will keep her at the weight she is now.  

Would you believe it,  I'll have owned her a week tomorrow! 
.


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## Moobli (7 June 2020)

She is beautiful!


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## HashRouge (7 June 2020)

ycbm said:



			I rode her this morning and I'm really understanding this.  If Ludo didn't have such enormous movement and flexibility, (and lovely character) he might be in trouble now    I'm confirming  all over again why I do so little with him even though he is five now,  he is still just too rubbery and leggy for his own strength to hold it all together for more than half an hour on the arena.  She,  on the other hand,  has two years on him in maturity and feels as if she is put together in an entirely different way.  She feels as if she is sat down behind the entire time.  Everything pushes from the back end.  It feels fabulous! 

I led her to the steps for the first time today instead of taking the steps to her.  She did one half step back, I repositioned the steps and got on.  This is the quickest I've ever been able to teach a horse that on my own. 

We did some walk and a bit of trot,  but we were inside the barn,  which is tiny (because it was raining 😠) so not much.  No issues at all.  I'm looking forward to getting her outside and asking for a canter. 

She's a lot calmer today,  and also ate up all her 'food' - a couple of handfuls of soaked grass nuts in oat straw chop with minerals.  I can feel her ribs now if I push a bit,  moving homes and the cold weather has just knocked off the bit of excess fat I was concerned about.  Hopefully the new regime will keep her at the weight she is now. 

Would you believe it,  I'll have owned her a week tomorrow!
.
		
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I've loved following this journey, can't wait to see how she comes on!


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## Pinkvboots (7 June 2020)

HufflyPuffly said:



			This thread makes me all fuzzy inside, I’m so pleased for you ycbm ☺️.

I had a lesson yesterday and was laughing that Skylla looks very ‘Spanish’ when ridden (from someone who has trained a lot of them) but apparently Skylla just makes it hard work rather than being as fabulous as a real one 😂. Maybe instead of an Arab I should try a Spanish horse next 😜.
		
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I know you wanted a chestnut Arab mare but I saw a lovely grey filly on preloved today it's a new advert she is 3 years old in Cheshire.


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## HufflyPuffly (7 June 2020)

Pinkvboots said:



			I know you wanted a chestnut Arab mare but I saw a lovely grey filly on preloved today it's a new advert she is 3 years old in Cheshire.
		
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Will take a look thanks 😊, Cheshire is nice and local too!


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## Roxylola (7 June 2020)

Cortez said:



			The down side of this, though is that riding "normal" horses becomes impossible. The last time I rode a non-Iberian horse was five years ago - a fancy WB - and it was like sitting on a particularly unintelligent log.
		
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They're nicknamed dumbbloods for a reason tbf.

 I've always fancied a PRE too, but my default to ride "more forward" when anything goes wrong would probably need to be fixed first, oh yeah and a budget of £0 is a significant issue


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## doodle (7 June 2020)

Robin is a warm blood and certainly not a dumb blood. I actually take offence to that. He is quicker and sharper than my tb’s and a heck of a lot more intelligent too.


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## Roxylola (7 June 2020)

Kamikaze said:



			Robin is a warm blood and certainly not a dumb blood. I actually take offence to that. He is quicker and sharper than my tb’s and a heck of a lot more intelligent too.
		
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Apologies, it was not meant to offend. I've heard it many times, and seen it demonstrated on more than one occasion, however like anything, theres bright and not so bright and I ought not stereotype. 
My personal experience came from riding in to the fence and stopping because I didnt ride a clear and definite turn aid 🤣 he was a bit special though


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## Cortez (7 June 2020)

Roxylola said:



			They're nicknamed dumbbloods for a reason tbf.

I've always fancied a PRE too, but my default to ride "more forward" when anything goes wrong would probably need to be fixed first, oh yeah and a budget of £0 is a significant issue 

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I used to breed Trakehners, they're not dumbbloods by any means, but you won't get me on anything that's not an Iberian or an Arab these days. I like to be happy.


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## ycbm (7 June 2020)

I went into the field this evening to chop the seed heads off the docks,  and she saw me from 150m away and made a beeline for me.  It was lovely! She's very people orientated for a horse who mostly sat in a field for nearly seven years 

.


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## Mule (7 June 2020)

Cortez said:



			I used to breed Trakehners, they're not dumbbloods by any means, but you won't get me on anything that's not an Iberian or an Arab these days. I like to be happy.
		
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Very high percentage of blood in Trakehners too. It makes sense they'd be bright.


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## Surbie (8 June 2020)

ycbm said:



			I went into the field this evening to chop the seed heads off the docks,  and she saw me from 150m away and made a beeline for me.  It was lovely! She's very people orientated for a horse who mostly sat in a field for nearly seven years 

.
		
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More pics pls!

We have a newly arrived bay PRE at our yard. I won't say it in my cobbus's hearing, but he is the most beautiful horse I think I have ever seen.


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## ycbm (8 June 2020)

A week today! 

Good grief how time flies.  (Time flies like an arrow,  fruit flies like an apple.  🤣🤣🤣 sorry can't resist my favourite joke of all time).

Yay, we've had a canter!  One on each rein.   And done a lot more trot and changes of direction.  She has such a short stride compared to Ludo,  it feels like her legs are going like the clappers 😄  It's exactly what I bought her for,  to be different.  She also stood at the step for me to mount instead of having the step moved to her.  That's probably the quickest any horse I've had has learnt to do that when there is no one to hold them.  She is very slow to learn to go into her own stable though when she comes in,  though.  You can tell she's never lived in, so far I've had to lead her into it every day.  

For a horse who was in a field for most of her seven years,  she's incredibly human orientated.  If I'm in view she doesn't take her eyes off me.  She's calm now,  and today she passed a very big test when I took Ludo out for a hack.  She hardly made any fuss at all.  I was very surprised by that,  and very pleased.  

And she worked on the arena with the OH running a power barrow,  chucking stone in it and appearing and disappearing over the wall without batting an eyelid.  She backed off some cow parsley at the side of the arena waving in a slight breeze and I told her not to be so silly     She is almost ready to try a short hack. I'm pretty confident it will go well.  

I'll try and get some photos of me on her soon but I think my cameraman is busy tomorrow.  

.


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## Pinkvboots (8 June 2020)

HufflyPuffly said:



			Will take a look thanks 😊, Cheshire is nice and local too!
		
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I wanted a grey Arab for ages but just not in a position to get another one


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## Shady (8 June 2020)

ycbm said:



			I went into the field this evening to chop the seed heads off the docks,  and she saw me from 150m away and made a beeline for me.  It was lovely! She's very people orientated for a horse who mostly sat in a field for nearly seven years 

.
		
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She  luuuurves you"
Ah you see what I was saying now about eye contact too ! Sometimes when i'm working on the land I can feel THE EYES boring into me.

It's an interesting difference that I noticed very quickly between my Arab and the PRE.  Preferido has his eye on you all the time and that's even when you hold a bowl of food to him. Always his eye makes contact with you ,where as my own horse just stuffs his face looking everywhere else!. 
Give it a go with your two and see  if it happens with Deeza. 

How lovely that you can ride out on Ludo and she will be ok. 
Can't wait to see some more photo's and a video xx


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## Cortez (8 June 2020)

One of the most heartbreaking things about my rescue PRE horse, the one who was being beaten to the ground with chains when he was found, the one who was so frightened of doing something wrong he was literally paralysed and afraid to move, and in the beginning would fall in the stable and crawl to the corner if someone looked over the door; he still likes people, he will follow me around the field, he always looks at me when I pop my head out of the door. Even after all that, he likes people.


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## Cinnamontoast (8 June 2020)

Cortez said:



			and in the beginning would fall in the stable and crawl to the corner if someone looked over the door; he still likes people, he will follow me around the field, he always looks at me when I pop my head out of the door. Even after all that, he likes people.
		
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Dear god, that’s made me cry. Who on earth could make a horse so terrified? 😥


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## Cortez (8 June 2020)

Cinnamontoast said:



			Dear god, that’s made me cry. Who on earth could make a horse so terrified? 😥
		
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A macho "horse trainer" who'd been made to look a fool by a super-sensitive, easily frightened young horse. I've never come closer to murdering somebody, but I could have that day....


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## Cinnamontoast (8 June 2020)

Cortez said:



			A macho "horse trainer" who'd been made to look a fool by a super-sensitive, easily frightened young horse. I've never come closer to murdering somebody, but I could have that day....
		
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Just horrific. I can’t imagine how anyone could do that. 😥


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## ycbm (9 June 2020)

This is what I found when I went out this morning.  Do we think she has settled in? 







I have some video but I'm fighting android's file management non-system at the moment to process some stills from it.  I truly did not realise until I saw it this morning what an absolutely stunning horse she is. 

.


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## Shady (9 June 2020)

ycbm said:



			This is what I found when I went out this morning.  Do we think she has settled in?







I have some video but I'm fighting android's file management non-system at the moment to process some stills from it.  I truly did not realise until I saw it this morning what an absolutely stunning horse she is.

.
		
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They are both stunning and look at where they live FFS . How bloody amazing is that.
Lucky horses and lucky you xx


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## ycbm (9 June 2020)

A moment of fame for Ludo,  although he was a bit Kevin this morning,  but he is five now so he's allowed,  I guess.  Just catching some Deza moments now,  back later.


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## ycbm (9 June 2020)

Deza in walk,  one showing how sweet and gentle she is and the other showing her extraordinary level of activity. 














.


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## Chinchilla (9 June 2020)

ycbm said:



			A moment of fame for Ludo,  although he was a bit Kevin this morning,  but he is five now so he's allowed,  I guess.  Just catching some Deza moments now,  back later.






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Not sure what I'm more envious of:
The horse
The Rider's excellent riding
The Scenery
The Arena
🤔🤔🤔🤔

Hmmm......joking aside he looks superb. And Deza's movement is just jawdropping. You are so lucky with these two.


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## ycbm (9 June 2020)

And the same in trot. 














I have to admit to sitting here wondering how the heck it happened, to own such a glorious pair of horses! 


.


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## Roxylola (9 June 2020)

Looks lovely, so glad you're enjoying them both


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## Shady (9 June 2020)

The bottom one is just lovely. The lines on her are so perfect. I like every bit of her Ycbm. 
Just wait til you start cantering her


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## ycbm (9 June 2020)

Shady said:



			Just wait til you start cantering her 

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🤣


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## dogatemysalad (9 June 2020)

She's stunning.


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## Crazy_cat_lady (9 June 2020)

They are both lovely, love her first canter photo she looks so soft

The red pad really suits her colouring as well cant wait to see more photos of both of them


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## thefarsideofthefield (9 June 2020)

Just been catching up on this thread - Deza is utterly beautiful . 
However I think you could do more to improve the overall picture  - if you tucked your vest into your pants and hiked your waist band right up to your armpits you could achieve a much more pleasing  'Spanish ' look'. Just a suggestion .


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## ycbm (9 June 2020)

thefarsideofthefield said:



			Just been catching up on this thread - Deza is utterly beautiful . 
However I think you could do more to improve the overall picture  - if you tucked your vest into your pants and hiked your waist band right up to your armpits you could achieve a much more pleasing  'Spanish ' look'. Just a suggestion .
		
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🤣


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## Lexi_ (9 June 2020)

They’re both so smart! Love how much Ludo has changed since you got him too 😄


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## cobgoblin (9 June 2020)

I don't see much Spanish macho there.... A Spanish bridle and boots would help enormously!

But seriously, she's gorgeous and coming along so quickly considering she was only sat on just over a week ago. 

I had to look twice at the photo of Ludo lying down... He looked as though blood was smeared down his nose. 😁😁


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## ycbm (9 June 2020)

During lockdown the vet refused to prescribe me acyclovir for a sarcoid because he said there was exudate on his chest in the photo so it wasn't a sarcoid. It was his hair colour! 

.


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## cobgoblin (9 June 2020)

ycbm said:



			During lockdown the vet refused to prescribe me acyclovir for a sarcoid because he said there was exudate on his chest in the photo so it wasn't a sarcoid. It was his hair colour! 

.
		
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😁🤣😁... Not just me then. 
How's the sarcoid?
.


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## luckyoldme (9 June 2020)

If you start wearing fancy Spanish gear you are going straight back into lockdown with no costa! Seriously they both look fantastic!


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## ycbm (9 June 2020)

cobgoblin said:



			😁🤣😁... Not just me then. 
How's the sarcoid?
.
		
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I got more acyclovir off the Internet,  it went black,  bubbled,  peeled off in circles and the hair regrew. I think his immune system was rejecting it anyway,  at least I hope so.  There are lots of bits of him that look like dried blood 😆

.


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## tristar (9 June 2020)

its all in the stars


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## ycbm (9 June 2020)

Lexi_ said:



			They’re both so smart! Love how much Ludo has changed since you got him too 😄
		
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I don't , he's so damned white! 🤣

.


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## ycbm (9 June 2020)

luckyoldme said:



			If you start wearing fancy Spanish gear you are going straight back into lockdown with no costa! Seriously they both look fantastic!
		
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Oh god, you know, when you've got one, you do start to feel tassles, 15 foot long stakes and trousers to your armpits calling ....


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## ycbm (9 June 2020)

ycbm said:



			🤣


















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As an aside,  the property on the hill behind in the top photo is the Heald Town Highland pony stud where Wind and Rain's lovely pony Kitten came from.  They have some lovely brood mares and a stunning bay stallion.  

.


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## Rosemary28 (9 June 2020)

She is so lovely!


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## criso (9 June 2020)

ycbm said:



			Oh god, you know, when you've got one, you do start to feel tassles, 15 foot long stakes and trousers to your armpits calling ....
		
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The 'stake' is a garrocha.  Still think you need one of those hats.


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## ycbm (9 June 2020)

criso said:



			The 'stake' is a garrocha.  Still think you need one of those hats.
		
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I know,  I was taking the p. 🤣


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## criso (9 June 2020)

ycbm said:



			I know,  I was taking the p. 🤣
		
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Just wanted to make sure you knew the term to google when you're ready to buy one.


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## ycbm (9 June 2020)

criso said:



			Just wanted to make sure you knew the term to google when you're ready to buy one.
		
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🤣   I'm sure OH can knock me one up.

.


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## luckyoldme (9 June 2020)

ycbm said:



			Oh god, you know, when you've got one, you do start to feel tassles, 15 foot long stakes and trousers to your armpits calling ....
		
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You need help.
🤔


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## MrsMozart (10 June 2020)

Just beautiful lass.


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## Cloball (10 June 2020)

On the back of these thread I have decided it is entirely worth while to take a 3hour round trip for schoolmaster lessons on a luso ... When allowed to leave the 🏠.

Love the photos!


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## Surbie (10 June 2020)

ycbm said:



			🤣


















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Cor!! She is so so gorgeous. 

And red tassels required, obvs.


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## tristar (10 June 2020)

ycbm said:



			Oh god, you know, when you've got one, you do start to feel tassles, 15 foot long stakes and trousers to your armpits calling ....
		
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i tried the tassle boots but not comfy enough, and love high waist trousers,but reverted to trainers and scruffiness for comfort,  i see however m and s have a lovely hat very spanish looking for 20 quid

but you have just reminded me about the garrocha, thanks,  i `ve been meaning to try it for years, i think i will today,not the charging around bit but the twizzling around the pole stuff


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## tristar (10 June 2020)

luckyoldme said:



			You need help.
🤔
		
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oh no she`s finally getting there!


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## Cortez (10 June 2020)

Doma Vaquera, and the garrocha which is a part of it, are very seductive disciplines that knock plain 'ol modern dressage into a cocked hat. You'll see far, far better riding and training at even a basic level DV competition (in Spain) than you will here at a local dressage competition.


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## palo1 (10 June 2020)

Cortez said:



			Doma Vaquera, and the garrocha which is a part of it, are very seductive disciplines that knock plain 'ol modern dressage into a cocked hat. You'll see far, far better riding and training at even a basic level DV competition (in Spain) than you will here at a local dressage competition.
		
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I love watching Doma Vaquera (totally unhindered by any real knowledge of whether I am watching the good, the bad or the ugly tbh) it is much more dynamic and looks far more 'natural' in terms of expression than higher level dressage here. And boy, does it look a lot more fun for everyone!!   Not having a spaniard to play with I am searching for the Translate Welsh button on those videos....!!


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## Cortez (10 June 2020)

I've done Doma Vaquera on a plain old Irish cob.........


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## Surbie (10 June 2020)

Cortez said:



View attachment 49487
 I've done Doma Vaquera on a plain old Irish cob.........
		
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I may* be biased, but that is a shiny chunk of utter gorgeousness there. And look at the focus on his face! 

(*couldn't be more biased if I tried)


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## Asha (10 June 2020)

She really is beautiful.


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## thefarsideofthefield (10 June 2020)

Cortez said:



View attachment 49487
 I've done Doma Vaquera on a plain old Irish cob.........
		
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Ahh - the ancient art of armed dressage


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## tristar (10 June 2020)

Cortez said:



View attachment 49487
 I've done Doma Vaquera on a plain old Irish cob.........
		
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oh i`ve got a plain old irish cob i`m about to back


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## palo1 (10 June 2020)

And how and where in the middle of nowwhere would one learn Doma Vaquera, cob or no cob!! ?   lol


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## HashRouge (10 June 2020)

I've always liked the Portuguese working equitation - so cool!!


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## BlackRider (10 June 2020)

Amazing pictures - Dezza is stunning and going so beautifully


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## Sam_J (12 June 2020)

So today I had the absolute pleasure of going to meet Ludo and Lindeza.  It will come as no surprise when I say that they are two absolutely stunning horses, whose photos do not do them justice. (In case you can't tell, I was absolutely smitten by them both!)

They are very 'people friendly' and were keen for attention, but not in a pushy or bolshy way - in fact there was a lovely softness about them both.  Ludo in particular was happy to stand and accept whatever scratches or attention I wanted to give (quite a lot - he's hard to resist!).  Deza was a little more reserved - which is understandable given that she's not been there for 2 weeks yet  - but is amazingly settled for such a short time in her new home and was equally happy to have strokes and scratches.  All in all, it was a lovely afternoon and I'm so happy for YCBM that she has such fabulous horses that I can't even bring myself to be jealous   If I can work out how to do it, I'll post some photos - although my camera skills are sadly lacking!


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## ycbm (12 June 2020)

Ludo really did love you!   And Deza showed a possessive steak that I haven't seen before, driving him away from me to get my attention for herself 

She was very,  very naughty when I rode this morning 🤣.  She walked backwards from the steps,  forwards from the steps,  and it took,  ooh, five or six attempts until she stood like a rock for me to get on.  She really is the sweetest,  easiest horse I have ever trained from almost nothing.  We have a reliable up and down between walk, trot and canter,  both reins, I can send her forward and steady her back in all paces, and on our first attempt at leg yield (required before we can hack on a narrow road)  I got a move off my leg in both directions.  What a little darling she is. 

Ludo thinks so too, I caught the pair of them kissing and cuddling when I went to get them this morning.  I'm so pleased for him, Muffin wasn't a friendly horse who would mutual groom.  

Still shaking my head how I ended up in this situation. 

.


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## Sam_J (12 June 2020)

Who could resist that nose?!


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## Shady (12 June 2020)

Sam_J said:



View attachment 49649

Who could resist that nose?!

View attachment 49650

Click to expand...

Not me! . I absolutely love markings like this. I 'd be planting kisses all over it, whether he liked it or not ! Ludo is one of my favourite horses on here
But look at the little kissy spot on Deza. Just perfect for smooches too.
( I feel I must add that my horse likes me sucking his nostrils......he does, honest


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## Cinnamontoast (12 June 2020)

What colour was Ludo as a youngster? Really fascinating colour he is now!


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## Shady (12 June 2020)

ycbm said:



			Ludo really did love you!   And Deza showed a possessive steak that I haven't seen before, driving him away from me to get my attention for herself 

She was very,  very naughty when I rode this morning 🤣.  She walked backwards from the steps,  forwards from the steps,  and it took,  ooh, five or six attempts until she stood like a rock for me to get on.  She really is the sweetest,  easiest horse I have ever trained from almost nothing.  We have a reliable up and down between walk, trot and canter,  both reins, I can send her forward and steady her back in all paces, and on our first attempt at leg yield (required before we can hack on a narrow road)  I got a move off my leg in both directions.  What a little darling she is.

Ludo thinks so too, I caught the pair of them kissing and cuddling when I went to get them this morning.  I'm so pleased for him, Muffin wasn't a friendly horse who would mutual groom. 

Still shaking my head how I ended up in this situation.

.
		
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That is so Spanish! You belong to her!
She was probably getting her own back this morning too!!.


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## ycbm (12 June 2020)

Cinnamontoast said:



			What colour was Ludo as a youngster? Really fascinating colour he is now!
		
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He was lighter than this when I bought him but I didn't expect him to go white with flecks!


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## Cinnamontoast (12 June 2020)

Dear Lord, the cutest baby horse ever! Have you had him since he was a baby?


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## ycbm (12 June 2020)

Cinnamontoast said:



			Dear Lord, the cutest baby horse ever! Have you had him since he was a baby?
		
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I bought him when he was 2, after he had impregnated 7 mares at a local low end stud.  They decided he would be wasted to keep as their second stallion and wanted to see him out doing stuff.  I found out after buying him that they are friends of my best friend so I know this is genuine. They still ask for  updates..  I only bought him for his spots,  that is not a joke.  I could see he was a good horse,  but I had no idea how good,  I only saw him in the field with his mares.  He is an awesome ride. 

He looked as if he might make 15.2. Then I had him gelded,  and he is now approaching 16.2 🤣

I absolutely love him, and he is a terrific contrast with Deza.


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## Cinnamontoast (12 June 2020)

He’s lovely!


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## Mule (12 June 2020)

Sam_J said:



View attachment 49649

Who could resist that nose?!

View attachment 49650

Click to expand...

I love Ludo's markings


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## Rosemary28 (12 June 2020)

They are both so lovely! I have to admit I do love a spotty horse!


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## SatansLittleHelper (12 June 2020)

I love Ludo...Deza is pretty but there is something about Ludo ❤❤❤


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## CanteringCarrot (13 June 2020)

Where was this thread?! How did I miss it?! I've been waiting for it  😂

It's so great that you found Deza and it is going so well. I, too, thought it was, um, just exaggerated when people would say a Spanish horse is like no other horse, but then I got one and now I know it truly is. 

Your experiences remind me of my current gelding since I've been his only rider since he was backed. He is very watchful, always watching me and interested in me. He's also the type that could be in the middle of a war zone and not spook, but God forbid a blade of grass looks at him the wrong way 😏

You're living my dream out there with a nice PRE and your handsome spotted fellow in such a beautiful landscape!


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## Gloi (13 June 2020)

So glad things are working out for you now, she is really lovely.


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## ycbm (13 June 2020)

CanteringCarrot said:



			Where was this thread?! How did I miss it?! I've been waiting for it  😂
		
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I realised yesterday that I put it in Clubhouse by mistake, and I asked them to move it yesterday evening, which they kindly did 

.


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## TheresaW (13 June 2020)

Both your horses are beautiful. I will come and meet them (and you) one day!


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## ycbm (13 June 2020)

TheresaW said:



			Both your horses are beautiful. I will come and meet them (and you) one day!
		
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I'd like that 

.


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## Trouper (13 June 2020)

Well it has taken me half the morning to catch up with this thread when I should be doing chores.  Such a lovely, lovely story with a happy ending - or should that be a beginning.  There is an old military maxim that says "no plan survives contact with the enemy" - and your plan certainly didn't survive contact with the current horse market so it is such a good job that Muffin and Fate were on the case to sort it all out!!!
She is a lucky girl to have found you - you both seem to be meeting a need in each other which is wonderful.  Keep the reports coming - I am learning such a lot about the PRE world.  I just would not want HHO'ers doing my shopping for me!!


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## Bernster (13 June 2020)

I wondered why I’d only just seen this thread but it’s got a million replies already. Love ludo’s markings and how he’s changed, so his stripe actually seems to be the last of his blaze?


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## Micky (13 June 2020)

She looks gorgeous....not from the trekking centre on the borders of Cheshire staffs and Derbyshire by any chance.?


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## ycbm (13 June 2020)

Micky said:



			She looks gorgeous....not from the trekking centre on the borders of Cheshire staffs and Derbyshire by any chance.?
		
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 Northfields, yes


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## NLPM (13 June 2020)

Welcome to a lifelong PRE addiction! They are exceptional in personality and to ride. Enjoy! She is beautiful and give you lots of cause to smile, I've no doubt!

They do have a habit of falling into your lap at the right moment... My first PRE did the same. So sorry to hear about Muffin.


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## southerncomfort (13 June 2020)

Don't know how I missed this thread!?

I think she is utterly beautiful. I'm thrilled for you. 🙂


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## Northern (13 June 2020)

They're both absolutely lovely. I hope you will continue posting pictures of both as they develop


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## Ceriann (13 June 2020)

She is absolutely stunning but so is he - another one that missed this thread.  I have always been very envious of the barn you have - if I was doing my yard again that’s what I’d have.  You’ll have loads of fun with your mare over summer.


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## thommackintosh (13 June 2020)

Ah, she's lovely looking.


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## ycbm (13 June 2020)

They have decided that straw is OK. She's trying to push him away but he's having none of that!


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## oldie48 (13 June 2020)

I have completely missed this thread! Your new mare is lovely, how lucky you were to find her and doesn't fate intervene in our search for a suitable horse! Wishing you many many years of happiness and fun with her.


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## Jayzee (13 June 2020)

So happy I have now found this thread! She is just gorgeous and Ludo too. I can't wait to see all the future updates!


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## ycbm (13 June 2020)

Well.

I have just ridden her. 

She has been here thirteen days.  She's been ridden for ten of those,  starting at five minutes and working up to fifteen this afternoon.

She didn't need the steps moved to get on her.  I'm doing the  (short) girth up while on her.  She is working on the track.  She has all the transitions between halt,  walk,  trot and canter.  Her down aid is a slight squeeze of the knees,  even from canter to trot.  She does leg yield and a square halt. She changes bend from inside leg into outside hand.

This is simply astounding.  I don't know how much is due to her being Spanish and how much to the fact that she is already seven.  I just know I've never known a horse learn like it.


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## palo1 (13 June 2020)

ycbm said:



			Well.

I have just ridden her.

She has been here thirteen days.  She's been ridden for ten of those,  starting at five minutes and working up to fifteen this afternoon.

She didn't need the steps moved to get on her.  I'm doing the  (short) girth up while on her.  She is working on the track.  She has all the transitions between halt,  walk,  trot and canter.  Her down aid is a slight squeeze of the knees,  even from canter to trot.  She does leg yield and a square halt. She changes bend from inside leg into outside hand.

This is simply astounding.  I don't know how much is due to her being Spanish and how much to the fact that she is already seven.  I just know I've never known a horse learn like it.
		
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Happy, healthy, responsive horse with a sensible outlook, clear and fair requests; that much is and should be 'normal'   Lovely for you and should be a far more common experience tbh.  Lovely to hear.


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## ycbm (13 June 2020)

I've backed a fair few over the years, she is something else entirely. 

.


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## Cortez (13 June 2020)

ycbm said:



			I've backed a fair few over the years, she is something else entirely.

.
		
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That's a Spanish horse for ya.

My work here is done


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## CanteringCarrot (14 June 2020)

Exactly. That is a Spanish horse. 


But, you must be careful, they really are too smart 😂


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## Shady (14 June 2020)

CanteringCarrot said:



			Exactly. That is a Spanish horse.


But, you must be careful, they really are too smart 😂
		
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So true.
Memories like elephants as well....


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## ycbm (14 June 2020)

CanteringCarrot said:



			Exactly. That is a Spanish horse.


But, you must be careful, they really are too smart 😂
		
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The one thing she hasn't yet learned is to put herself in her box to eat her breakfast.  If I catch Ludo,  she doesn't follow,  she goes and tries to put herself into the barn.  That's where she goes _after_ she's had breakfast/been ridden. Is she so clever that she  knows that's where she's going to end up eventually,  and thinks she might as well go straight there? 

.


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## CanteringCarrot (14 June 2020)

Shady said:



			So true.
Memories like elephants as well....
		
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YES. Mine remembers EVERYTHING. I was just discussing this "struggle" with a friend. She suggested an exercise and I told her it probably wouldn't work with this horse because his memory is too good 😂 she agreed. I really have to ride his brain, not his body. 



ycbm said:



			The one thing she hasn't yet learned is to put herself in her box to eat her breakfast.  If I catch Ludo,  she doesn't follow,  she goes and tries to put herself into the barn.  That's where she goes _after_ she's had breakfast/been ridden. Is she so clever that she  knows that's where she's going to end up eventually,  and thinks she might as well go straight there?

.
		
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Ah, that could be it! 😉

I've taught mine the command of "box" and he goes in when I snap my fingers and point to it. The stallion I used to ride and his stallion friend knew this command too (had to walk one through the others paddock to get it out). So I don't know if you should associate it with a command? Or if that works in your set-up. 

Now, I will say, mine is smart and lazy. So he too might go directly into the barn in an effort to save himself some steps 😂 hoping that *I'd* be smart enough to feed him in there and save him the extra "work" of going into his box and then the barn. Mayne she's trying to train you. 🤔


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## Shady (14 June 2020)

CanteringCarrot said:



			YES. Mine remembers EVERYTHING. I was just discussing this "struggle" with a friend. She suggested an exercise and I told her it probably wouldn't work with this horse because his memory is too good 😂 she agreed. I really have to ride his brain, not his body.



Ah, that could be it! 😉

I've taught mine the command of "box" and he goes in when I snap my fingers and point to it. The stallion I used to ride and his stallion friend knew this command too (had to walk one through the others paddock to get it out). So I don't know if you should associate it with a command? Or if that works in your set-up.

Now, I will say, mine is smart and lazy. So he too might go directly into the barn in an effort to save himself some steps 😂 hoping that *I'd* be smart enough to feed him in there and save him the extra "work" of going into his box and then the barn. Mayne she's trying to train you. 🤔
		
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Your post made me laugh CC. I say '' in your house'' and he knows exactly what I mean but because he is sneaky greedy as well as smart, he'll dawdle a bit in the general direction just when he's feeling a bit rebellious and then i'll  say '' in your house...now'' and those legs start flying all over the place as he hustles his arse back properly . He is so funny and extremely naughty. No malice in him at all but everything is a game to him outside of ' work ' . You can play chase with him for hours ( if I had the energy ) He loves it and tries to hide behind trees thinking you can't see him.


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## CanteringCarrot (14 June 2020)

Shady said:



			Your post made me laugh CC. I say '' in your house'' and he knows exactly what I mean but because he is sneaky greedy as well as smart, he'll dawdle a bit in the general direction just when he's feeling a bit rebellious and then i'll  say '' in your house...now'' and those legs start flying all over the place as he hustles his arse back properly . He is so funny and extremely naughty. No malice in him at all but everything is a game to him outside of ' work ' . You can play chase with him for hours ( if I had the energy ) He loves it and tries to hide behind trees thinking you can't see him.
		
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"...and those legs start flying all over the place as he hustles his arse back properly." That cracked me up! Too true. I told mine to move into his paddock the other day, and he stood at the gate a moment, and I was like, "as in, GO, as in NOW" commense legs scrambling...err the Spanish Shuffle as I call it, and him moving promptly into his paddock.


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## Shady (14 June 2020)

CanteringCarrot said:



			"...and those legs start flying all over the place as he hustles his arse back properly." That cracked me up! Too true. I told mine to move into his paddock the other day, and he stood at the gate a moment, and I was like, "as in, GO, as in NOW" commense legs scrambling...err the Spanish Shuffle as I call it, and him moving promptly into his paddock.
		
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Hah.  The Spanish Shuffle. Love it !
Iv'e literally just called them down to give himself some apple cider vinegar  and the field slopes towards me. The Arab came down neatly at a smart little canter. The Spanish lump threw himself down the slope with the front legs waving all over the place , clods of earth flying  everywhere and then dramatically slammed on the breaks at the last moment with a lot of head tossing , which would look absolutely amazing if he had an impressive mane ...he doesn't . It is pathetic. If he knew just how desperate it was,  he would have a phobia!


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## DD (14 June 2020)

she's gorgeous


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## ycbm (14 June 2020)

As a test before hacking out,  I took her up the road in hand to see how she reacts to things.  We were lucky with our timing and got passed by a few cars,  no issue,  and a camper van with barking dogs which she was only mildly concerned about.  I stood her by the junction to the main road as some motorbikes roared past,  no problem.  She seemed very happy to be seeing new things and she didn't rush for home when we turned and went back.  

Everything seems very positive for having her happy to hack alone.  OH is busy for a few days,  and i would like him to walk with me the first time,  but it should be some time this week.  

I took Ludo out on an hour's hack and she didn't react too much as we left or when we got back, and she hadn't sweated up or trashed the stable while we were gone.  I thought separating them would cause far more trouble than it does. Bonus! 

Question - 

why is Ludo frightened of Aberdeen Angus but not Hereford cattle? 

.


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## doodle (14 June 2020)

ycbm said:



			Question - 

why is Ludo frightened of Aberdeen Angus but not Hereford cattle? 

.
		
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Different accents!


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## ycbm (15 June 2020)

First argument today! 


I can't walk close to that white guttering you've got just outside the boards there.

You can.

I can't.

Well you're going to.

I won't.

You will.

Oh all right then!

😆


I got onto the steps today and brought her to me instead of taking her to the steps.  Perfect.  I can junk the steps and use the mounting block now.  She worked hard for 20 minutes and it was warm so she was very sweaty,  and had her first shower while she's been here.  She wasn't thrilled,  but she just stood there.

I was very pleased today to see that the missing heel plane on her left fore, (which I'm pretty certain will have been blown off by an abscess), that I think was responsible for a long toe on that one foot,  is definitely growing in.  I'm a bit relieved,  if it hadn't i would have needed to shoe her and with feet like little bricks that's the last thing I would have wanted to have to fuss with.

Ludo had the day off,  he did a fairly tough (for him)  hack yesterday with a lot of hills including a good long trot up a steep hill towards home. A friend just pointed out, because she's not seen him in a while, he's growing new spots!

.


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## ycbm (15 June 2020)

First cuddle caught on camera!  I'm so pleased for Ludo,  Muffin wasn't a friendly horse.


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## Cloball (15 June 2020)

Kamikaze said:



			Different accents!
		
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Doric is very challenging


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## SatansLittleHelper (15 June 2020)

Can I just say again how much I love Ludo ❤❤❤


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## doodle (15 June 2020)

Cloball said:



			Doric is very challenging
		
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Absolutely. I lived there for 4 years and it still passes me by sometimes!


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## Cloball (15 June 2020)

Kamikaze said:



			Absolutely. I lived there for 4 years and it still passes me by sometimes!
		
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Same I used to ride for a lady out in the shire no idea what she was saying most of the time but she was lovely when I did

... Smile and nod 😁


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## Flame_ (15 June 2020)

ycbm said:



			First argument today!


I can't walk close to that white guttering you've got just outside the boards there.

You can.

I can't.

Well you're going to.

I won't.

You will.

Oh all right then!

😆
		
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Lol, lucky you, when my horse says no it escalates from

You will

To

As if, come on then if you think you can make me, you know what I can do, this isn't going to end well for you...

I get off and lead  


She does sound just as lovely as she looks. I'm happy for you that your pressured horse hunt worked out so perfectly!


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## CanteringCarrot (15 June 2020)

Sums up the argument I had with mine today regarding his complex about having to do work after having a short time off, then coming back into light work. The more time off he gets, the lazier he is. But I think I am the same way when it comes to work sometimes, tbh 🤣

I find that they'll push you a bit to see where they can get, or what they can get out of!


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## Cortez (15 June 2020)

It's not so much a test as a question - Look, there's a scary thing; have you seen the scary thing? Do you really, really think it's scary? No? Well, OK then, if you're sure.....


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## ycbm (17 June 2020)

She's either got her feet under the table or she's in season because she was a bit silly a couple of times today and had to be reminded of her manners, (using my voice only).   I think probably the latter,  judging by how much I'm seeing of Ludo's willy,  thankfully in a floppy state!  I'm always pleased to get a good view to check for sarcoids or worse.  

I've been working on his mouth lately,  holding the contact no matter how much he messes with it.  He's had some right neck twisting tantrums about it,  but after a few days I can feel it paying off,  and he was really lovely in trot and canter today.  He's developing some real power now that he will work forward to a contact.  

Deza was refusing to be placed at the block for me to mount, so I touched her bum on the off side with the whip. About as light a touch as it's possible to do,  less than I have used when on board.  She went bananas trying to get away from it!  So the first five minutes of our lesson this morning was being touched all over with the whip and praised for not over reacting.  

She was getting too strong and too much wall of death in canter right,  legs flying at a rate of knots.  Half halts were getting no response other than to pull more,  so I released the reins instead and immediately she settled.  Less is always more with her.  

They are a wonderful pair!

I'm going to start a new thread next time,  so Ludo can share the title 

.


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## ycbm (17 June 2020)

Who's copying who 😁 ?


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## Cortez (17 June 2020)

Ah yes, forgot to mention the Spanish drama............

They look as happy as Larry there, what a nice pair you have.


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## CanteringCarrot (17 June 2020)

Yes, the Spanish drama is a real thing! My gelding is a drama queen! But I'd still deal with his drama over many other things/horses.

I do like hearing about your adventures with both Deza and Ludo.


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## tristar (17 June 2020)

i have one who positively hysterical at some things occasionally ,   i just smile and take no notice,  next day back normal

but she has a lot to learn,  and they  are or can be very reactive  in a very sensitive way which takes you by shock


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## ycbm (20 June 2020)

I bought her this 🤣


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## Errin Paddywack (20 June 2020)

Very snazzy


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## Roxylola (20 June 2020)

Oh that's ace


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## ycbm (24 June 2020)

I took her out for her first hack today.  On her own because I don't really have any option, and in any case I have always hacked alone because I like it, so she may as well start off that way.

So I'm all togged up with a set of L plates and she's got an orange exercise sheet on for the first time,  I got on in the yard for the first time, pressed the key to open the gate ......

and she marched up the yard,  out the gate , and up to the main road 500 yards away,  bursting with curiosity about where we were going.  She didn't call out,  she didn't want to turn for home,  and when we did turn for home after watching some traffic on the main road,  she didn't go home any faster than she went out.  For a horse who gets agitated every time her companion is taken out of the next door stable,  she was remarkably unfazed about going out by herself. 

It was a very promising start,  and I'm beaming 😄


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## Rosemary28 (24 June 2020)

Fantastic!


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## SashaBabe (24 June 2020)

So pleased it's going so well


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## HashRouge (24 June 2020)

Lovely, what a super star


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## Sam_J (24 June 2020)

Well that's put a big smile on my face too!  Glad to get another update, I was wondering how you were getting along.


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## SEL (24 June 2020)

A horse that likes hacking on their own is a dream!


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## ycbm (26 June 2020)

Second hack today and she was right fidgety to do up the girth because she was so keen to get out of the gate.   

We got caught in a fair old rainstorm.  That's always a worry on a new horse,  but she wasn't bothered.  She did jump a puddle and try and skirt round some others,  so  I  made her walk through one and then she was happily paddling down the stream of water running down the road.  

She's a bit looky at the moment, but she doesn't spook, just shrug a bit, and she's really happy to keep going further from home and not over keen to turn back. 

All very promising hacking wise.

For a horse who has lived out all her life,  she is peculiar about the barn.  She's locked in from 9ish to 6ish with a trug of straw and Ludo, but she's putting herself in for a lot of the night too. That's ok for her,  she's a bit too fat, but Ludo is losing weight following her in. I really want them moving more,  too.   Tonight I've locked them out,  and I was outside weeding and after ten minutes out, she tried to go back in again.  She looked a bit shocked the gate was shut, but it's staying shut until she breaks the habit of being in there so much. 

.


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## ponyparty (27 June 2020)

So pleased that she’s working out for you. Really enjoying the updates!


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## luckyoldme (27 June 2020)

ycbm said:



			First cuddle caught on camera!  I'm so pleased for Ludo,  Muffin wasn't a friendly horse.






Click to expand...

Its a really satisfying moment when you see that...georgous🥰


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## tristar (27 June 2020)

great


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## Cortez (27 June 2020)

ycbm said:



			I took her out for her first hack today.  On her own because I don't really have any option, and in any case I have always hacked alone because I like it, so she may as well start off that way.

So I'm all togged up with a set of L plates and she's got an orange exercise sheet on for the first time,  I got on in the yard for the first time, pressed the key to open the gate ......

and she marched up the yard,  out the gate , and up to the main road 500 yards away,  bursting with curiosity about where we were going.  She didn't call out,  she didn't want to turn for home,  and when we did turn for home after watching some traffic on the main road,  she didn't go home any faster than she went out.  For a horse who gets agitated every time her companion is taken out of the next door stable,  she was remarkably unfazed about going out by herself.

It was a very promising start,  and I'm beaming 😄
		
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But she wasn't by herself; she was with you......


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## Shady (27 June 2020)

ycbm said:



			Second hack today and she was right fidgety to do up the girth because she was so keen to get out of the gate.  

We got caught in a fair old rainstorm.  That's always a worry on a new horse,  but she wasn't bothered.  She did jump a puddle and try and skirt round some others,  so  I  made her walk through one and then she was happily paddling down the stream of water running down the road. 

She's a bit looky at the moment, but she doesn't spook, just shrug a bit, and she's really happy to keep going further from home and not over keen to turn back.

All very promising hacking wise.

For a horse who has lived out all her life,  she is peculiar about the barn.  She's locked in from 9ish to 6ish with a trug of straw and Ludo, but she's putting herself in for a lot of the night too. That's ok for her,  she's a bit too fat, but Ludo is losing weight following her in. I really want them moving more,  too.   Tonight I've locked them out,  and I was outside weeding and after ten minutes out, she tried to go back in again.  She looked a bit shocked the gate was shut, but it's staying shut until she breaks the habit of being in there so much.

.
		
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So that's 2 more things the same as mine!
The love of hacking so they don't want to turn back . This is one of the biggest things that makes up for Preferido's  slight lack of ground manners( being kind here) He will just keep going. He loves to stand and look at the views and is fascinated by so many things. Top of the list is water. He will play for hours, but be warned, mine would roll if I didn't keep him moving.

2nd thing. The barn. This is home and mine would be happy in his stable  most of the time. You are doing the right thing , although i'm sure Deza  wouldn't agree. I think I mentioned before that we can't leave P out. He literally goes mental and I have tried every way I can think of to make him accept it . 
Make sure you have PRE proof catches on your gates too. Mine can open anything......and does!!!


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## tristar (27 June 2020)

love hacking, want to go forever in happy swinging along mode, happy in stable or field, hates being not handled ridden etc just want to be part of your life


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## criso (27 June 2020)

ycbm said:



			I bought her this 🤣






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Can't believe you won't get her a nice tassly bridle but you're making her wear this.


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## CanteringCarrot (27 June 2020)

"PRE proof catches" are a real thing! I remember the first time I spotted a friend's stallion loose after he opened (still no idea how) his paddock gate and just wandered around the corner and was calmly eating grass. Could've gone a lot worse him being a young stallion, but food was his priority. The hay in his dry lot area was not satisfactory! I caught him easily and he calmly walked back as I secured his gate more thoroughly with some rope and chain. But that one is a real joker. Mine doesn't bother a fence or gate. He's also a total chicken, so there's that.

I'm so glad that Lindeza is working out so well. I can hack mine alone, but again, he's a chicken and does best in company. Mine will live out as opposed to in, but if the weather is good, I'd be inclined to close the barn too.


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## Surbie (27 June 2020)

Love that she is hacking out so well. And that she likes paddling. Top progress!


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## thefarsideofthefield (27 June 2020)

ycbm said:



			I bought her this 🤣






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I've got the matching bikini !


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## ycbm (30 June 2020)

Well things are proceeding,  though not always in a straight line 

I couldn't get on today because she kept stepping backwards,  putting me at her head instead of at her shoulder.  She overreacted to being tickled with a whip and I didn't want to get annoyed with her so I just fetched the steps and moved the steps to her instead of trying to get her to the block.  I was soon on board, but she twisted as I swing my leg over and I wasn't happy,  so I got off again,  and the next time she stood like a rock and got a lot of praise.  

She is now completely ignoring the white guttering (dressage boards) which she never originally noticed and then copped a wobbler at last week, and then ignored after being told not to be silly.  But now she is doing the same at the jump blocks on another side of the arena.  She did it on Monday and was quietly and calmly made to walk and then  to trot circles past them until she ignored them.  It was a surprise that she did the same again today,  and we went through the whole thing again until she ignored them.  

On the plus side,  she stutters,  she stops, she twists and she tries to run past,  but there is nothing violent or unseating about it. 

I have some very bad news for her though.  When she stops being silly about the blocks where they are,  they are going to start moving to other places around the arena.  

Tomorrow she's going to be on her own for three hours while we take Ludo out for a lesson.  It's going to be interesting to see how she copes, and how Ludo gets on at his first lesson in four months.


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## CanteringCarrot (30 June 2020)

Ah, sounds like standard ops according to my Spanish horse 😂

I hope your lesson goes well tomorrow! 

...and this thread needs more pictures 😉


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## Surbie (30 June 2020)

Cobbus does the same at various objects - it gets a bit wearing every now and then till I remember how much of a dude he is about other things. Mine needs to have more things to think about to fill all the space otherwise occupied by worry. But I suspect Deza is vastly braver than him.


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## palo1 (1 July 2020)

Sounds familiar to me too...Young Welsh here stomps past diggers, buses (currently empty), peacocks displaying etc but will point blank refuse to go near a blowing leaf, making a huge display of spinning, snorting and belly crawling only, finally to agree that it is, after all a leaf and can be walked past without angst!  At least it provides an ongoing conversation and provides a bit of mental and adrenal stimulation when completing even the most basic tasks...


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## ycbm (4 July 2020)

Honeymoon is over 😂

She's peeing me off starting every session being stupid about the jump blocks,  then getting over herself and working fine,  then throwing her toys out of her pram again because she's approaching them from a slightly different angle.  

And now she has discovered that she has shoulders.  BIG, STRONG  shoulders.  And that she can pop out her left shoulder and nap towards the stables. Trying to correct that brought on even more barging, and some head flinging,  so she found herself on a square instead,  where the shoulders are easier to control.  Then we morphed that back to a circle,  and stopped as a reward when she kept the bend. 

She's a beautiful creature,  just uneducated.  I still can't quite believe my luck to have her.


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## CanteringCarrot (4 July 2020)

Mine did the similar shenanigans. Still does 😂 but it's the price I pay for an intelligent and sensitive mount, I think. It's just about using those features to my advantage and not his!

Are you going to do any groundwork with her? Mine enjoys it. We did some quasi-clicker training where he learned to touch new things he was apprehensive about. He touched, stood, and got a treat, relaxed. He also knows various tricks, such as handing me a whip. He is not nippy in the least since he must look away/be out of my space to get good as a reward. Just a thought if you haven't already considered it. It seemed to tap into his needs of using his brain and getting to know "his person" and what I expect.


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## Chinchilla (4 July 2020)

ycbm said:



			Honeymoon is over 😂

She's peeing me off starting every session being stupid about the jump blocks,  then getting over herself and working fine,  then throwing her toys out of her pram again because she's approaching them from a slightly different angle. 

And now she has discovered that she has shoulders.  BIG, STRONG  shoulders.  And that she can pop out her left shoulder and nap towards the stables. Trying to correct that brought on even more barging, and some head flinging,  so she found herself on a square instead,  where the shoulders are easier to control.  Then we morphed that back to a circle,  and stopped as a reward when she kept the bend.

She's a beautiful creature,  just uneducated.  I still can't quite believe my luck to have her.
		
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Uneducated is better than educated badly 😉 sure you'll get her going. She sounds really bright so doubt it'll take her long to get the hang of things.


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## ycbm (4 July 2020)

It sure is C. Give me a blank slate before someone else's mistakes every time.  

.


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## SatansLittleHelper (5 July 2020)

How did Ludo get on at his lesson..?!


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## ycbm (5 July 2020)

SatansLittleHelper said:



			How did Ludo get on at his lesson..?! 

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You've missed a thread,  I gave him one of his own. 

.


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## ycbm (8 July 2020)

Third hack,  longer today, half an hour with a big hill. 

She's the only horse I've ever known who marches out of the gate while it's still opening,  stomps down the hill and along the road,  then refuses to turn for home and tries to dawdle all the way back! 

She's not remotely concerned about being out alone.  She's looking at stuff,  but not doing anything silly apart from wriggling around like an eel while I'm trying to tighten the girth in the middle of the road. 

But she is a hysterical beastie!   The Latin temperament,  maybe.  She reminds me of Bruno Tonioli and Frankie Dettori 😂

Without thinking about it I patted her neck gently after untacking her. She went wheeling off around the box as if I had an electric hand 🤯  then kept running round in circles when I tried to touch her again.  In the end I had to raise my voice and say 'stop!' to get her attention.  She stood there shaking while I stroked her neck and when she calmed down I told her what a good girl she was. 

Who knows what that was about!  I didn't do anything I hadn't done a dozen times before.  

.


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## chaps89 (8 July 2020)

ycbm said:



			But she is a hysterical beastie! The Latin temperament, maybe. She reminds me of Bruno Tonioli and Frankie Dettori 😂
		
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This is such a good way of describing them 😂
It sounds like you're having a lot of fun with her, and although she seems to be finding her feet and testing the waters a bit now, none of it sounds remotely scary or unmanageable


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## planete (8 July 2020)

It may sound silly and anthropomorphic but my Lipi x has sometimes seemed to have a meltdown at next to nothing after facing all kinds of potential stressors without batting an eyelid.  It feels as if he has tried so very hard to be good until his nerves have finally frayed.  At first I used to think he was unpredictable as the meltdowns appeared without any warning after a seemingly relaxed period for no good reason.  I know better now, the apparent relaxation can be totally deceptive.


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## Berpisc (8 July 2020)

planete said:



			It may sound silly and anthropomorphic but my Lipi x has sometimes seemed to have a meltdown at next to nothing after facing all kinds of potential stressors without batting an eyelid.  It feels as if he has tried so very hard to be good until his nerves have finally frayed.  At first I used to think he was unpredictable as the meltdowns appeared without any warning after a seemingly relaxed period for no good reason.  I know better now, the apparent relaxation can be totally deceptive.
		
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I recall seeing Richard Maxwell at a demo years ago, he described this behaviour (if I remember correctly) as the horse having a "stress tank", small things that we might not notice or recognise (eg in a horse we are not familiar with) get added to the "tank" until finally something causes it to overflow and that might be something we don't regard as large or significant.


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## Cortez (8 July 2020)

Yes, definitely a Latin temperament  describes them well. Something you can stylishly ride down to an angry bull on, and wheel away from a pesky fly at the drop of an olive.....

A Spanish friend told me they were "emocionado" (excitable), but you can, you *must*, always trust your horse before he can trust you.


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## ycbm (8 July 2020)

Cortez said:



			Yes, definitely a Latin temperament  describes them well. Something you can stylishly ride down to an angry bull on, and wheel away from a pesky fly at the drop of an olive.....

A Spanish friend told me they were "emocionado" (excitable), but you can, you *must*, always trust your horse before he can trust you.
		
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It would definitely be a terrible mistake to start acting as if I thought she might do it at any time. I'm pretty certain it would be a great way to teach her to do it at any time 😆

My raised voice was entirely strategic,  not anger.  I didn't want to reward her hysterics at having been touched in a way she's been touched a hundred times before by 'reassuring' her with 'good girl' noises,  because then she would just think she had been right to be upset.  I wanted her to think 'oh,  good,  someone to give me a lead to follow'. It worked, she stopped the circling straight away.  

.


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## Cortez (8 July 2020)

A no nonsense approach is definitely the way to go, and telling them to get over themselves. Spanish horses in Spain are most assuredly *not* mollycoddled*, to put it mildly....

*The average English rider would have conniptions!


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## CanteringCarrot (8 July 2020)

Oh she reminds me so much of my gelding 😂 bless them and their drama queen ways! Sometimes I think it is for their own personal entertainment. I ride my guy with a zebra fly sheet for most hacks, he acts terrified of it whenever it isn't on him. If it's on him, it's fine. I walked up to him with it today, he started giving it the hairy eye ball and wanted to back away, and I told him "Stop!" and he put a lid on it. I put his saddle pad on the gate to his paddock yesterday for a few seconds while I did something, you'd think that aliens had landed the way he snorted and objected to this clearly offensive placement of said pad. He also dawdles on his way home, he gets there when he gets there. No sooner! Meanwhile his usual hacking parter is several strides head going at a brisk pace, head tossing, and giving her owner a workout as she rushes to get back to the stable. 

So, my point is, you are not alone! 🤣 Strange but loveable creatures! 

It's nice that she hacks alone so well though! And that it's working with 2 horses on your property. Managing a pair can be tricky.


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## CanteringCarrot (8 July 2020)

Cortez said:



			Yes, definitely a Latin temperament  describes them well. *Something you can stylishly ride down to an angry bull on, and wheel away from a pesky fly at the drop of an olive.....*

A Spanish friend told me they were "emocionado" (excitable), but you can, you *must*, always trust your horse before he can trust you.
		
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Ah, that quote is too good! 😂


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## ycbm (8 July 2020)

CanteringCarrot said:



			Oh she reminds me so much of my gelding 😂 bless them and their drama queen ways! Sometimes I think it is for their own personal entertainment. I ride my guy with a zebra fly sheet for most hacks, he acts terrified of it whenever it isn't on him. If it's on him, it's fine. I walked up to him with it today, he started giving it the hairy eye ball and wanted to back away, and I told him "Stop!" and he put a lid on it. I put his saddle pad on the gate to his paddock yesterday for a few seconds while I did something, you'd think that aliens had landed the way he snorted and objected to this clearly offensive placement of said pad. He also dawdles on his way home, he gets there when he gets there. No sooner! Meanwhile his usual hacking parter is several strides head going at a brisk pace, head tossing, and giving her owner a workout as she rushes to get back to the stable. 

So, my point is, you are not alone! 🤣 Strange but loveable creatures! 

It's nice that she hacks alone so well though! And that it's working with 2 horses on your property. Managing a pair can be tricky.
		
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Oh the saddle pad!   Every flipping time!!  She sees it and starts as if it's a lion.  I say 'no!' and she stands still shaking until it's on and then couldn't care less about it.  She's big into shaking 🤷‍♀️
.


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## Michen (8 July 2020)

ycbm said:



			Oh the saddle pad!   Every flipping time!!  She sees it and starts as if it's a lion.  I say 'no!' and she stands still shaking until it's on and then couldn't care less about it.  She's big into shaking 🤷‍♀️
.
		
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Bear shook at plenty of things in the first month or two. He would shake if I patted him on the arse gently! Might just be one of those introverted nervous types.


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## CanteringCarrot (8 July 2020)

ycbm said:



			Oh the saddle pad!   Every flipping time!!  She sees it and starts as if it's a lion.  I say 'no!' and she stands still shaking until it's on and then couldn't care less about it.  She's big into shaking 🤷‍♀️
.
		
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Ah yes, I've also seen mine do some shaking...over his girth that I dropped on the ground. 🙄 But he's cool as a cucumber for many other things that other horses lose their mind over. Totally non chalant about a sonic boom or some things on the trail that his hacking mate will spook at. I took off his fly mask the other day and he looked at it, "Whoa, da hell is that?!" it's what was just on your face for the last 8 hours dummy. 

I've done some training with him on this stuff. But it's so ingrained into his personality. He doesn't make me feel nervous or at danger, but I really have to have a sense of humor about it otherwise it'd drive me nuts. I've heard they can get less weird when they're older... As in 15+ 😂....maybe


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## ycbm (16 July 2020)

Just had her teeth done.  I had her sedated because I didn't want any histrionics. She's 7 and never had them done.  They weren't bad,  but she had just been catching her cheeks a tiny bit,  so it was just as well. 

She's buzzy buzzy buzzy to ride now,  just wants to be moving right from the off.  I'm starting shoulder in as a means to keep everything calm,  and it's just easy peasy for her.  She'll be at GP by Christmas at this rate 🤣

.


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## tristar (16 July 2020)

i found that, i would give him something to think about as soon as on board and used si, and that was after lunging!

however has a button in brain that just like a switch and goes from `i might just leap about`to relaxing into   ``àh i see you want me to relax`, ok``

wonder if its a breed characteristic


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## tristar (16 July 2020)

Cortez said:



			Yes, definitely a Latin temperament  describes them well. Something you can stylishly ride down to an angry bull on, and wheel away from a pesky fly at the drop of an olive.....

A Spanish friend told me they were "emocionado" (excitable), but you can, you *must*, always trust your horse before he can trust you.
		
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emocionado to me means reactive in the horse sense, sometimes for inexplicable reasons, that i accept as full on to whats happening around them, well that`s how it feels   to me, i could say flippin hysterical but its not quite the same somehow.


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## Cortez (16 July 2020)

tristar said:



			emocionado to me means reactive in the horse sense, sometimes for inexplicable reasons, that i accept as full on to whats happening around them, well that`s how it feels   to me, i could say flippin hysterical but its not quite the same somehow.
		
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See, I've *never* had a hysterical Spanish horse: hot, yes, and super sensitive, but not silly or irrational ever. I've had plenty arrive that way mind you, but I would say it was the owners who were hysterical not the horses.......


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## tristar (16 July 2020)

oh i`ve had the silly alright


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## ycbm (16 July 2020)

Cortez said:



			See, I've *never* had a hysterical Spanish horse: hot, yes, and super sensitive, but not silly or irrational ever. I've had plenty arrive that way mind you, but I would say it was the owners who were hysterical not the horses.......

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Oy careful 🤣   

.


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## tristar (16 July 2020)

ever seen a ball of knitting wool made out of a horse and lunge rein


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## ycbm (22 July 2020)

We had our first outing yesterday and it went really well,  but I came home very flat about it.  

She loaded well to go and come home.  She tried running backwards into the wall a couple of times,  but got nowhere so she gave up and travelled pretty quietly.  

I rode her for about 25 minutes in a group lesson with four others and she was perfectly behaved. 

But the arena surface is terrible, it's difficult to walk across it is so deep in loose rubber,  so I'm not sure about taking her there again.  And the trainer told me that her back end is so weak that I should be very careful what I do with her.  I don't understand this comment,  I think she's got the strongest back and is more developed than any horse I have ever started.  I'm wondering if they mistook her Spanish movement for weakness, but it did put a downer on the day  
.


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## LadyGascoyne (22 July 2020)

ycbm said:



			We had our first outing yesterday and it went really well,  but I came home very flat about it. 

She loaded well to go and come home.  She tried running backwards into the wall a couple of times,  but got nowhere so she gave up and travelled pretty quietly. 

I rode her for about 25 minutes in a group lesson with four others and she was perfectly behaved.

But the arena surface is terrible, it's difficult to walk across it is so deep in loose rubber,  so I'm not sure about taking her there again.  And the trainer told me that her back end is so weak that I should be very careful what I do with her.  I don't understand this comment,  I think she's got the strongest back and is more developed than any horse I have ever started.  I'm wondering if they mistook her Spanish movement for weakness, but it did put a downer on the day 
.
		
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That is really irritating and I can see why you’d feel it took the shine of the day. For what it’s worth, traveling a relatively new, green horse to a group lesson with four other horses in the same space seems like a fairly brave thing to do and it sounds like she went brilliantly well.

People are so odd about non-traditional types. I had so many people tell me that Mimosa would be hellishly uncomfortable to ride - short back, straighter shoulder than one might like, araby movement. She is the most comfortable horse I’ve ever sat on, and you have to remind yourself to rise to the trot.

Their loss!


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## HufflyPuffly (22 July 2020)

Don’t feel down, it can be hard with the less usual types to get people to understand them. Concentrate on the good parts!

PS least you’ve not been told she’s bilaterally lame yet 🤪🙈.


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## Roxylola (22 July 2020)

*disclaimer I am no expert
But, I think the iberian horses are so naturally collected they are inclined to look like they are being worked in a medium (or higher) outline without really trying. So I sort of understand if the instructor is thinking you are asking her to work that way as opposed to her offering it theyd want to encourage you to work more of a prelim outline. However, in my (limited) experience they find it harder to work that way than collected


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## CanteringCarrot (22 July 2020)

I will say that Iberian horses can have the "shape" of a strong horse, but not necessarily the strength. It is quite likely that she is not so strong since she was out of work. So I could possibly see where the instructor was coming from. 

I've had people say my horse looks strong, so good in his body and his work, but I can feel that he needs more strength or that he's only giving 80% it takes a keen eye, but these Iberians can fool you into thinking they're ready for more work and more capable than they really are. I'm not trying to say you don't have a keen eye or don't know your horse, just my experience. It really takes a lot (A LOT) of strength to work a horse properly in dressage. Was this a dressage instructor? 


But also, I do think people aren't used to a horse that moves different. I'm not sure how yours moves - if she is Spanish-like. The only comment I've ever received has been that my horse needs to slow his legs down...and sometimes he does! But a good instructor should be able to tell a horse's way of going from weakness. 

It's great that she handled everything so well though! She sounds brilliant.


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## CanteringCarrot (22 July 2020)

Roxylola said:



			*disclaimer I am no expert
But, I think the iberian horses are so naturally collected they are inclined to look like they are being worked in a medium (or higher) outline without really trying. So I sort of understand if the instructor is thinking you are asking her to work that way as opposed to her offering it theyd want to encourage you to work more of a prelim outline. However, in my (limited) experience they find it harder to work that way than collected
		
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This actually makes sense to me, and follows what I've experienced. Took me a bit, but my horse has more adjustability now, however, he's always wanted to ride in a higher "outline" and it's the way he is built.


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## ycbm (22 July 2020)

Roxylola said:



			*disclaimer I am no expert
But, I think the iberian horses are so naturally collected they are inclined to look like they are being worked in a medium (or higher) outline without really trying. So I sort of understand if the instructor is thinking you are asking her to work that way as opposed to her offering it theyd want to encourage you to work more of a prelim outline. However, in my (limited) experience they find it harder to work that way than collected
		
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I think it's this.  I think the way she sits weight on her back end was mistaken for not being able to hold up my weight on her back or her way of moving was mistaken for me asking her to do it too soon.   It's just the way she moves.  

CC she is every bit Spanish!  

I am thrilled with a month broken horse travelling and working in a strange place in a group lesson. I was all prepared just to stand with her and watch the others the first time, but there was no need. 

What a sweetheart 
.


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## DabDab (22 July 2020)

Wow, I haven't checked this thread in ages and it sounds like she's coming on brilliantly. Yay for such a positive first trip out. Don't worry about the instructor, it sounds like they might have been projecting a bit, it's certainly easy to carried away early on with something like a nice moving PRE, but that doesn't mean you are or will.

Had to laugh random behaviour - Dabs is only half bred but has a very typical PRE brain, and while you could quite merrily hack him through a circus without him batting an eye, he will frequently spook at his own rug being put on. I frequently have need to request that he have a day off from being ridiculous. It's just who he is - a fearless war horse ready to charge into battle, but when back in his stable will scare himself with his own fart. 😂


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## CanteringCarrot (22 July 2020)

I have seen some Spanish horses that are kind of "squatty" for lack of a better term. The hind end is really underneath. Can look a bit different, but not necessarily weak.


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## shortstuff99 (22 July 2020)

As you are pleased with her that is all that matters .

A dressage judge once told me Spanish horses were for fiestas and not dressage, what can you do 🤷‍♀️


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## palo1 (23 July 2020)

ycbm said:



			We had our first outing yesterday and it went really well,  but I came home very flat about it. 

She loaded well to go and come home.  She tried running backwards into the wall a couple of times,  but got nowhere so she gave up and travelled pretty quietly. 

I rode her for about 25 minutes in a group lesson with four others and she was perfectly behaved.

But the arena surface is terrible, it's difficult to walk across it is so deep in loose rubber,  so I'm not sure about taking her there again.  And the trainer told me that her back end is so weak that I should be very careful what I do with her.  I don't understand this comment,  I think she's got the strongest back and is more developed than any horse I have ever started.  I'm wondering if they mistook her Spanish movement for weakness, but it did put a downer on the day 
.
		
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What a shame for her first outing not to leave you feeling delighted   I think, a bit, that we all see what we want to see and trainers/instructors are only human.  Having had exactly this experience with my young horse (including the awful surface) a few weeks ago I do think that first outing/first training (especially with a different person) is a good time to take stock and it is at least thought provoking to have someone else's view/eye.  It's quite tough though to pick out the bones of what you want from this situation I found.   FWIW, at least your mare is fully developed and sounds lovely though of course (as you know) she can't have the strength and muscling of a more established riding horse; perhaps the trainer was just exercising some caution because of her slightly different way of moving?   Was the trainer someone who knows this sort of horse well?  It might help to work with someone who understands the type a bit better possibly.  But in any case it sounds like a cause for celebration that your lovely mare was so happy to go out, work for a bit and then home again; definately a win!!  

I have to say that I agree with shortstuff99 about fiestas...!!


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## Trouper (23 July 2020)

I think the comments say more about the instructor than they do about your girl.  I am sure you are more than capable of seeing if a horse is particularly weak in any area and it is such early days yet.    I am probably becoming a cynical old *** in my old age but I often find that "experts" on first meeting are quick to fine fault areas which miraculously transform under their tutelage in the coming months!!!


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## ycbm (23 July 2020)

I was hoping to do the winter of the group lesson,  which is very low key, a bunch of friends who ride together every two weeks,  before moving on to more serious one on one training.  But the arena really is bad,  and another friend has stopped going there.  It wasn't a cheap builder who did it,  either,  one of the 'best' in the country. I'm in a quandary now.  

I'm trying to find a new trainer for Ludo, one who has also trained PREs. I was recommended Gary Foggan by the people I bought Deza from,  and have his number from two different people,  but he's not responding. 
.


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## Roxylola (23 July 2020)

I dont know if she is local enough to you, and she is not my cup of tea personally but is a decent trainer, Tori Peter is Cheshire based I think, she rides iberians and trains herself with a Portuguese trainer. She's nice enough, just wasnt for me


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## ycbm (23 July 2020)

Have PMd you.


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## palo1 (23 July 2020)

In my experience (not competition) a really good trainer will take into account things like breed/type etc but will absolutely work with what is in front of them.  It is a pet hate of mine where instructors start the session talking about 'his/her breed/type' as that means that you have already started out with a bias; sometimes that may be a good experience but I don't really want bias as I have plenty of that myself!!  What I want from a trainer is objective, helpful advice about what is in front of them on the day.  With experience that trainer can then develop a real understanding of the horse over a period of time without wearing rose-tinted or other sorts of glasses when looking at your horse.  Sadly, I think the trainer I took my young mare to simply does not like Welsh cobs - her first comments were about that and in spite of my mare being actually more saintly than the established horse she turned up with, a lot of the time I got to hear about how 'difficult' Welshies can be and about how it was important to get xyz sorted first before I had 'problems'.  That may be all true but that immediate bias and the dire surface completely switched me off which is a shame as I liked the trainer as a person, the school is handy and similar to you, there is a pleasant established little group working with her.   

Sometimes it is better to ask to watch a trainer/training session with someone else (obviously with everyone's blessing and in an informal way) before committing with a horse I find.


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## Cortez (23 July 2020)

Get thee to an Iberian-experienced trainer post haste. Spanish/Iberian horses are different - they move differently, they think differently, they react differently and they need to be ridden differently too. (A bit: they're not from outer space or anything..........).

I'm pretty experienced and spent the first half of my horsey life with high powered dressage Warmbloods competing at FEI levels. When I started with Spanish horses you would have thought I couldn't ride at all and had to completely remake myself. With the help of some really kind trainers in Spain and particularly Portugal I finally learned how to ride properly (well, I'm still learning of course).


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## CanteringCarrot (23 July 2020)

While a PRE is still a horse, I do think riding with someone that has experience with Iberians is a good idea.


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## CanteringCarrot (23 July 2020)

Cortez said:



			Get thee to an Iberian-experienced trainer post haste. Spanish/Iberian horses are different - they move differently, they think differently, they react differently and they need to be ridden differently too. (A bit: they're not from outer space or anything..........).
		
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I'd like to argue your last point. My PRE is definitely from outer space. Cannot explain his, erm "quirks" otherwise!


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## ycbm (23 July 2020)

Cortez said:



			Get thee to an Iberian-experienced trainer post haste. Spanish/Iberian horses are different - they move differently, they think differently, they react differently and they need to be ridden differently too. (A bit: they're not from outer space or anything..........).

I'm pretty experienced and spent the first half of my horsey life with high powered dressage Warmbloods competing at FEI levels. When I started with Spanish horses you would have thought I couldn't ride at all and had to completely remake myself. With the help of some really kind trainers in Spain and particularly Portugal I finally learned how to ride properly (well, I'm still learning of course).
		
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I knew you'd say that     Trying to find one.  
.


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## Asha (23 July 2020)

ycbm said:



			I knew you'd say that     Trying to find one.  
.
		
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Have a look at Gemma Moss , she’s a local dressage rider who competes some Spanish horses as well as WBs. Worth a call .


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## shortstuff99 (23 July 2020)

I think Rui Campeao does clinics up your way? Might be worth having a look.


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## ycbm (23 July 2020)

Asha said:



			Have a look at Gemma Moss , she’s a local dressage rider who competes some Spanish horses as well as WBs. Worth a call .
		
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Have contacted her just now.  
.


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## tristar (23 July 2020)

i think all the basics are the same, straight forward rhythm etc, so for those a trainer who appreciates that the most simple and basic things as gospel would be what i would look for, and who knows takes things very slowly as lin has only been ridden a  very short time.

a good trainer needs to have ridden different types and understand their ways of moving, a slightly staccato trot is utterly different to a flowing trot, i think it would be easy to ruin an iberian by rushing in too fast as they seem to be born to be the ultimate horse for teaching you how to ride properly, i feel if you can ride one really well you have reached an equestrian plateau which will help you with riding all other breeds.

as for which trainer, someone like sylvia loch would be where i would look, a odd lesson with her could be worth the effort, i would certainly be looking to the highest level personally a kind of investment in the horses future, even riding a schoolmaster iberian to know what feelings to expect from decent work

not saying i ride properly or anything, but i`ve noticed the rub off onto other horses where schooling is concerned its helped me a great deal, and understanding whats going on and how i influence the horse has come from stepping back and figuring out how to ride these horses


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## planete (23 July 2020)

Please look at how some of the trainers themselves ride and give clinics first even if it is only footage on Youtube.  It can be quite an eye opener and will give you an idea of who might be compatible with you and your horse.  I was quite shocked the other day when I came across a video of a well-publicised and much published 'classical' exponent riding horses at a clinic she was teaching at.


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## CanteringCarrot (23 July 2020)

To be fair, I have ridden with a trainer that worked quite well for my horse and I, but I am not a huge fan of her riding. Her instruction worked for me and she wasn't actually riding my horse, so that worked out. 

It is ideal to watch a lesson before you take one, but sometimes you just have to go and ride with the trainer to see for yourself. If it takes a bit to find one you match with, that's fine.


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## ycbm (7 August 2020)

Well  it's been an interesting few weeks! 

First the good news.  She's going to be a super hack. She's already really comfortable to ride out and hardly making much of a fuss about anything.  

But on the arena at home she's taken a huge dislike to the jump blocks,  which she ignored for the first two weeks.  I rode her on a very windy day,  and since that day she has been so silly about them that it has taken the whole session just to get her to walk and trot past them and do a circle anywhere on the arena. She has frankly been driving me nuts! 

She has an ability to drop the bottom of her neck down between her shoulders, like she's about to face down a bull,  and once she's done that,  there's no way to control her.  I worked out how to keep her head up and stop her doing it,  but she still won't settle or bend the way I want her to.  For two weeks,  cantering has been off the menu. Her emergency stops and handbrake turns would have been too dangerous.

Then in a miracle of timing,  this happened: 







Five one ton bags of rubber,  three of them with loose flaps moving in the breeze.  This morning,  no matter where she looked there was something frightening. She spun away from one only to find herself facing another.  The blocks became insignificant, there was too much else to worry about.  

And after ten minutes,  she decided safety lay with me,  and we had the best session we have had in weeks.  We even had a canter on each lead around them all.  

So she can stay a bit longer 😋
.


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## cauda equina (7 August 2020)

So pleased the flooding (although unintentional) was successful!


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## BallyRoanBaubles (7 August 2020)

Wow what an amazing view!


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## ycbm (7 August 2020)

cauda equina said:



			So pleased the flooding (although unintentional) was successful!
		
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I said to the a OH yesterday I was going to flood her with them and that it was very frowned on for a training method.  But it was that or not ride until I've spread it,  which will be quite a while as I'm doing it by hand 🤪

She didn't seem to switch off,  just to make a conscious decision they weren't worth the fuss she was making. 

It was very effective!  
.


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## Trouper (7 August 2020)

Daisy rein???


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## Bionic Boy (7 August 2020)

I’ve had my boy 4 years now. I still get that giddy feeling and can’t believe my dream come true. 
You won’t regret for a second. I hope you have many happy years together. 
She is beautiful 💕


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## Mule (7 August 2020)

Cortez said:



			Get thee to an Iberian-experienced trainer post haste. Spanish/Iberian horses are different - they move differently, they think differently, they react differently and they need to be ridden differently too. (A bit: they're not from outer space or anything..........).

I'm pretty experienced and spent the first half of my horsey life with high powered dressage Warmbloods competing at FEI levels. When I started with Spanish horses you would have thought I couldn't ride at all and had to completely remake myself. With the help of some really kind trainers in Spain and particularly Portugal I finally learned how to ride properly (well, I'm still learning of course).
		
Click to expand...

 In what way do they have to be ridden differently? Do you mean you have to use lighter aids because they are sensitive or something else? Is it just Spanish horses that you have found this with?


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## Mule (7 August 2020)

I think we need some new Lindeza photos @ycbm 😊


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## RHM (7 August 2020)

Christ your view is gorgeous! Serious envy!


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## Cortez (7 August 2020)

mule said:



			In what way do they have to be ridden differently? Do you mean you have to use lighter aids because they are sensitive or something else? Is it just Spanish horses that you have found this with?
		
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Yes, and no. It's a bit unexplainable, until you actually ride one (a properly trained one I might add), and then you'll know. And quite frankly I have zero desire to ever ride anything that isn't Spanish/Iberian ever again.


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## ycbm (7 August 2020)

mule said:



			In what way do they have to be ridden differently? Do you mean you have to use lighter aids because they are sensitive or something else? Is it just Spanish horses that you have found this with?
		
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All I can say is she's a bit weird, and I spend my time wondering how much of it is because she is already seven and newly broken and how much is the Spanish. The feeling of an ability to drop the C6/7 neck vertebrae down in the shoulder cradle is something I've never come across before.  The sensitivity is something else as well,  all I have to do is squeeze just above my knees and she stops,  from whatever pace,  no rein.  The innate 'sit' also has to be felt to be believed.   And the desire to be moving,  usually forwards,  puts paid to any necessity to think about creating impulsion.  

Other than that and a few other bits and pieces,  she's a completely normal English/Irish horse 🤣
.


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## ycbm (7 August 2020)

mule said:



			I think we need some new Lindeza photos @ycbm 😊
		
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I'll see what I can do


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## tristar (8 August 2020)

mule said:



			In what way do they have to be ridden differently? Do you mean you have to use lighter aids because they are sensitive or something else? Is it just Spanish horses that you have found this with?
		
Click to expand...



i think they suit classical seat, riding, because the balance is different, the way they are put together makes the balance unusual the movement is unique, {i think} combined with their intelligence and  responses  which becomes very sensitive with training, or should, 

its not like a cob or a tb its like an iberian, so you ride it how it is, unless of course you have a mainly tb  tres sangres three blood, hispano anglo  arab,  now thats  another story  i`m working on currently


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## Mule (8 August 2020)

ycbm said:



			All I can say is she's a bit weird, and I spend my time wondering how much of it is because she is already seven and newly broken and how much is the Spanish. The feeling of an ability to drop the C6/7 neck vertebrae down in the shoulder cradle is something I've never come across before.  The sensitivity is something else as well,  all I have to do in squeeze just above my knees and she stops,  from whatever pace,  no rein.  The innate 'sit' also has to be felt to be believed.   And the desire to be moving,  usually forwards,  puts paid to any necessity to think about creating impulsion. 

Other than that and a few other bits and pieces,  she's a completely normal English/Irish horse 🤣
.
		
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That sounds lovely


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## scats (8 August 2020)

I have serious arena envy!  How do you get anything done??  I’d be standing admiring the view!


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## Mule (8 August 2020)

tristar said:



			i think they suit classical seat, riding, because the balance is different, the way they are put together makes the balance unusual the movement is unique, {i think} combined with their intelligence and  responses  which becomes very sensitive with training, or should,

its not like a cob or a tb its like an iberian, so you ride it how it is, unless of course you have a mainly tb  tres sangres three blood, hispano anglo  arab,  now thats  another story  i`m working on currently
		
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tristar said:



			i think they suit classical seat, riding, because the balance is different, the way they are put together makes the balance unusual the movement is unique, {i think} combined with their intelligence and  responses  which becomes very sensitive with training, or should,

its not like a cob or a tb its like an iberian, so you ride it how it is, unless of course you have a mainly tb  tres sangres three blood, hispano anglo  arab,  now thats  another story  i`m working on currently
		
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At the risk of sounding clueless what is a classical seat?


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## planete (8 August 2020)

mule said:



			At the risk of sounding clueless what is a classical seat?
		
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I was trying to formulate an answer but I came across this: https://www.equi-ads.com/classical-riding-whats/


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## Mule (8 August 2020)

planete said:



			I was trying to formulate an answer but I came across this: https://www.equi-ads.com/classical-riding-whats/

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Thank you


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## ycbm (8 August 2020)

scats said:



			I have serious arena envy!  How do you get anything done??  I’d be standing admiring the view!
		
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I've lived here nearly 30 years,  I'm used to it but I still appreciate it 

It comes with high winds and 3°lower temperatures that aren't so welcome in winter! 
.


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## ycbm (25 September 2020)

took her to a friend's house today and the wind was blowing a gale. Between that and the mirrors,  we had an interesting time,  but for a horse broken just three months she was very good. I think these show her extraordinary activity.  There's no working at getting an active hind leg on this little horse!


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## JJS (25 September 2020)

ycbm said:



			took her to a friend's horse today and the wind was blowing a gale. Between that and the mirrors,  we had an interesting time,  but for a horse broken just three months she was very good. I think these show her extraordinary activity.  There's no working at getting an active hind leg on this little horse!

View attachment 55738
View attachment 55737
View attachment 55736

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She’s so beautiful! No wonder you’re smitten!


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## Regandal (25 September 2020)

I have serious tail envy. She is gorgeous!


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## ycbm (25 September 2020)

Regandal said:



			I have serious tail envy. She is gorgeous!
		
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It's extremely thick but it also brushes through really easily 
.


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## Roxylola (25 September 2020)

Oh my goodness, she looks fabulous but I'm just having total saddle envy, I know it's a WOW, and I know they tailor make them, but it just fits you so beautifully 😍


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## ycbm (25 September 2020)

I'm very lucky R, the standard giant high flaps have always fitted me as if they were made to measure!


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## Roxylola (25 September 2020)

ycbm said:



			I'm very lucky R, the standard giant high flaps have always fitted me as if they were made to measure!
		
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5'3" - the only things that fit me perfectly are pony saddles 🤣 never happier than in a 16 inch


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## Rosemary28 (25 September 2020)

She is wonderful!


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## thefarsideofthefield (25 September 2020)

ycbm said:



			took her to a friend's house today and the wind was blowing a gale. Between that and the mirrors,  we had an interesting time,  

View attachment 55738
View attachment 55737
View attachment 55736

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Pah - s*d the weather - if I had a horse like that I would go where the mirrors are too . She's lovely .


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## Michen (25 September 2020)

Lovely!!!!!


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## TheresaW (25 September 2020)

Beautiful


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## Chinchilla (25 September 2020)

Well she's just a bit fabulous isn't she <3


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## shortstuff99 (25 September 2020)

Well now you have to go to the breed shows! She is fabulous and you're doing an amazing job with her


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## ycbm (25 September 2020)

I don't think I'm doing anything except just let her be herself SS. 

I can't see me turning into a showing person at this late stage 😁
.


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## Berpisc (25 September 2020)

She is gorgeous, did well in todays wind as well


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## thefarsideofthefield (25 September 2020)

ycbm said:



			I can't see me turning into a showing person at this late stage 😁
.
		
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My OH used to call showing " Paying someone to watch you show off . "

( But then who doesn't like showing off every now and then ? )


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## shortstuff99 (25 September 2020)

ycbm said:



			I don't think I'm doing anything except just let her be herself SS.

I can't see me turning into a showing person at this late stage 😁
.
		
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I think letting her be herself is a skill too, takes confidence to just let a horse get on with it.

Well you never know with the showing, and Spanish showing is not like standard UK showing....


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## LadyGascoyne (25 September 2020)

Wow, she is just gorgeous! Look at her move!


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## Gloi (25 September 2020)

Looking great <3


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## Bernster (25 September 2020)

Wowzers, those legs!


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## Unicorn (25 September 2020)

Simply lovely!!


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## Shady (25 September 2020)

Beautiful  xxx


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## Cortez (25 September 2020)

shortstuff99 said:



			Spanish showing is not like standard UK showing....
		
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Indeed it is not, it's a thing of itself, and there are classes of every possible variety, including normal dressage, Alta Escuela, Doma Vaquera (very low level), Spanish costume, etc., etc. It is actually a lot of fun


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## Surbie (25 September 2020)

Cortez said:



			Indeed it is not, it's a thing of itself, and there are classes of every possible variety, including normal dressage, Alta Escuela, Doma Vaquera (very low level), Spanish costume, etc., etc. It is actually a lot of fun 

Click to expand...

Does this mean we can start chucking links to snazzy bridles and outfits again? 

Lovely, lovely mare.


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## ycbm (25 September 2020)

Surbie said:



			Does this mean we can start chucking links to snazzy bridles and outfits again? 

Lovely, lovely mare.
		
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*NO*

🤣


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## Valadictory (25 September 2020)

What a beauty


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## Sam_J (25 September 2020)

Hurray for an update!  It was really windy here today, dread to think what it must have been like where you are!  She is looking fabulous - I'm only a teeny bit jealous...


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## RHM (25 September 2020)

ycbm said:



*NO*

🤣
		
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Give the people what they want!!!😂😂


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## ycbm (26 September 2020)

RHM said:



			Give the people what they want!!!😂😂
		
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You wear fancy dress and and take her showing then  🤣.
.


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## ycbm (26 September 2020)

I have been thinking I should explain for all the people saying to themselves 'why on earth has she got her hands so high?'   

We were leg yielding to the left when a tiny pony wandered into view directly in front of her about 30 meters away, and she fixed her eyes on him and stopped going sideways.  I raised my hands to follow her mouth as she raised her head,  and I'm neck reining her to the left to make her respond to my request in spite of the fascinating pony. I don't usually ride round with my hands up there!


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## Cortez (26 September 2020)

YCBM, nowt wrong with where your hands are in that moment, nor with where your leg and body are either. 

A lot wrong with all the leaning forwards, round shouldered, hands below the broken line posture that so many people show.....and horses with their noses and necks below the level of the withers, dragging around on the forehand. Down with that sort of thing, etc.


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## CanteringCarrot (26 September 2020)

I figured there was reasoning behind your technique!

She's a lovely gal!

I recently ordered a more Spanish style/working equitation saddle (could've probably done this in my regular dressage saddle butttt..) because I want to dip my toe in a few things...whenever my horse is able to with his hoof debacle. Have you considered some working equitation? I find it quite fun and different.


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## ycbm (26 September 2020)

Tell me more CC, where do you find out about it/ train/ compete?


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## Roasted Chestnuts (26 September 2020)

Wow what a saga! She is gorgeous! Will be following your progress ❤️ x


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## CanteringCarrot (26 September 2020)

ycbm said:



			Tell me more CC, where do you find out about it/ train/ compete?
		
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Not sure about in the UK, are you on Facebook? I've come across a few UK Spanish horse and UK Working Equitation groups on there that might be useful.

I honestly just did some Google searches, watched a lot of videos on YouTube, and just talked to some people in my area. I did ask a local facebook horse group too and they were able to point me toward a trainer. I am also close to Stefan Schneider and hope to clinic with him at some point in 2021 if possible (again, hoof). Maybe Cortez knows a bit more?

We don't have many competitions in my area, so I'd have to go futher away I think. But even by doing some basic internet searches I was able to put a few exercises together in the beginning on my own.


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## Cortez (26 September 2020)

ycbm said:



			Tell me more CC, where do you find out about it/ train/ compete?
		
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You need to talk to the UK Working Equitation peeps, Georgia Shone is the person to contact. 
http://www.workingequitation-gb.com/


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## thefarsideofthefield (26 September 2020)

ycbm said:










I have been thinking I should explain for all the people saying to themselves 'why on earth has she got her hands so high?'

We were leg yielding to the left when a tiny pony wandered into view directly in front of her about 30 meters away, and she fixed her eyes on him and stopped going sideways.  I raised my hands to follow her mouth as she raised her head,  and I'm neck reining her to the left to make her respond to my request in spite of the fascinating pony. I don't usually ride round with my hands up there!
		
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According to ' My Big Book of Spanish Riding ' -  (" El Spookas . Chapter 7 " ) If your horse takes the Pisto and does a Tortillas you should put your Patatas Bravos on and give it a Tapas with your stick .

You're welcome .


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## ycbm (22 October 2020)

I'm having some big issues with Deza. First,  though I was warned how little PREs need to eat I had no real idea what people meant. I have her down to 5kg of haylage, soaked 24 hours, and then straw to top up,  muzzled for turnout and she is still getting pulses and not losing weight. I am absolutely hating having two horses on such different feed regimes, it's ruining my whole barn free range management system that has worked well for 20 years.  

Second,  she's too wide. I'm narrow through the hips,  old and creaky, and  I've begun to get issues  that I haven't had since I sold my cob.  Today a biomechanics instructor told me I was sat to the right and I haven't been told that since I sold my cob either.  It seems when I'm on a horse that's too wide I sit slanted and then can't get my right leg working properly and they fall in on the right rein.  Exactly the issue I had last time around.

She's a cracking mare but I feel a bit defeated and I'm seriously thinking of selling


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## Pearlsasinger (22 October 2020)

ycbm said:



			I'm having some big issues with Deza. First,  though I was warned how little PREs need to eat I had no real idea what people meant. I have her down to 5kg of haylage, soaked 24 hours, and then straw to top up,  muzzled for turnout and she is still getting pulses and not losing weight. I am absolutely hating having two horses on such different feed regimes, it's ruining my whole barn free range management system that has worked well for 20 years.

Second,  she's too wide. I'm narrow through the hips,  old and creaky, and  I've begun to get issues  that I haven't had since I sold my cob.  Today a biomechanics instructor told me I was sat to the right and I haven't been told that since I sold my cob either.  It seems when I'm on a horse that's too wide I sit slanted and then can't get my right leg working properly and they fall in on the right rein.  Exactly the issue I had last time around.

She's a cracking mare but I feel a bit defeated and I'm seriously thinking of selling 

Click to expand...



What a pity!

I am sorry to hear that but we need to be able to sit comfortably as we get older. Would a different saddle help?


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## ycbm (22 October 2020)

I don't think so PaS.  It's the width between my knees that's the issue and my knees are as close to her as you can get,  they aren't on the blocks, they are behind them, and it's a monoflap.


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## Caol Ila (23 October 2020)

Oh, no. So sorry to read this. I've got no insights, but she's such a lovely mare. It would be a real shame. If you had to, maybe someone on HHO would buy her.


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## PurBee (23 October 2020)

ycbm said:



			I'm having some big issues with Deza. First,  though I was warned how little PREs need to eat I had no real idea what people meant. I have her down to 5kg of haylage, soaked 24 hours, and then straw to top up,  muzzled for turnout and she is still getting pulses and not losing weight. I am absolutely hating having two horses on such different feed regimes, it's ruining my whole barn free range management system that has worked well for 20 years.

Second,  she's too wide. I'm narrow through the hips,  old and creaky, and  I've begun to get issues  that I haven't had since I sold my cob.  Today a biomechanics instructor told me I was sat to the right and I haven't been told that since I sold my cob either.  It seems when I'm on a horse that's too wide I sit slanted and then can't get my right leg working properly and they fall in on the right rein.  Exactly the issue I had last time around.

She's a cracking mare but I feel a bit defeated and I'm seriously thinking of selling 

Click to expand...

My mare, who looks weirdly so similar to your lindeza!...she’s half arab and half welsh D, black with splash of white on her rear hoof.

Like lindeza, held weight no matter how little i fed her. Fat pads appeared....im soaking hay for years, no change.

Quit that upon further research, added 10g per day of mag oxide, food grade. Magnesium is essential for sugars to be pushed into cells and used for energy. Without adequate magnesium the body will store sugars as fat. Magnesium is low in forage and grass, unless you add Dolomite to your paddocks.

Mine are on mineral/vit balancers and i assumed for ages that the mag in the mix was ‘expertly mixed’ to give balanced nutrition. But it isnt. Its mag content is far too low. So i add extra mag oxide ontop of generic balancer mix.

Secondly quit the straw. I know its a common top up for fatties but look at the research out there. Some straws are low sugar and some are very high and can be higher than grass hays.
Take a peek at this article on feeding straw and why its not a good idea for fatties/insulin resistance, unless you have a consisten supply/same supplier and get it tested to make sure the total sugar content is low:

https://gettyequinenutrition.com/pages/feeding-straw-to-the-insulin-resistant-horse-may-be-a-mistake



Next, i’d pick a haylage that’s high fibre. I wouldnt soak haylage as ive tried it in the past for the reasons you are but just for a couple of hours and i really didnt like the smell at the end ....gut instinct said not to continue, the sugars should all be fermented anyway with it being haylage.
I fed soaked haylage and she had raised foot pulses.
Many haylages are tetraploid ryegrass, and if cut early...around june...will be higher sugars and less fibre. If cut later its much higher in fibre and protein as the seedhead matures more and much lower in sugars.

Since stopping soaking hay/haylage ( free at last!!!) And just adding at least 10g per day of mag ox and getting high fibre haylage...my fat mare lost her fat pads...and i could feel her ribs and the consistent up and down raised pulses/laminitis scares are a thing of the past - AND she can eat all the grass she can get into her greedy self unmuzzled!

The only feed company using tetraploid ryegrass that really are high fibre and she looked the best Ever on and she was eating unsoaked 9kg of the stuff per 24hrs is ‘marksway hi-fibre’ Haylage. Being in the uk youll get it far cheaper than me importing it into ireland. Other says theyre hi-fibre but theyre not as hi fibre as the fore-mentioned supplier.

I’ve had my mare on other brands of ‘high fibre ryegrass haylage’ and she has pulsed feet within 48hrs. You can tell the really dodgy stuff by the very sweet sickly smell it has.....and its very glossy and golden yellow, almost tacky to touch. I now, never feed haylage that smells and feels like that....i call it ‘horse crack’....they love it due to it being partially fermented and high sugar.

On Marksway hi-fibre haylage she’s looked her best, had best foot growth, and her coat shiny. Apart from that she was getting a generic balancer....with added mag ox, in a handful of beet pulp. ....and all the grass she can eat during grazing months and she’s still slim!
i couldnt believe the next spring when she came in from grazing the first few weeks without raised pulses! That was the first time in years!

It’s worth trying a change as she really could slim down, mine no longer waddles around with a wide gut and fat pads while being starved. Its such a frustrating position to be in.

marksway also do timothy haylage which id recommend too, and i mix that in with their high fibre ryegrass for variety and more fibre/less sugar and to avoid a mono-diet of just ryegrass during winter, when there’s not much grass.

There’s hope for lindeza and your hips 🙂


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## PurBee (23 October 2020)

Also, just to say, any bowel bacterial change can cause footiness, raised pulses, and the soaked haylage may be causing a reaction to her bowel microbiome environment. Soaking for so long a fermented forage is encouraging it to ferment more in water and could be changing its properties, causing gastro upset and thus raised pulses/footiness.

If anything, in the meantime Before you decide if you want to change forage, I’d do the opposite you’re doing: id soak the straw and feed your haylage as it is, unsoaked, unless you know its high sugar haylage, id only soak for an hour and feed straight away, while adding in mag ox too.


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## CanteringCarrot (23 October 2020)

Well, if it's not going to work, it's not going to work. I'm sure you can find a suitable home for her as she sounds like a nice horse.

But a few things that may be relevant, or not:

I feel as though mine is a bit more rotund than Deza is, but he's had no pulses. I don't know if pictures are deceiving, but she didn't look terribly obese IIRC, and I wonder if more muscle on her would help her with the pulses and handling food. Mone does not do well with haylage and blows up. I avoid straw too. I just use watered hay. 

I've used magnesium oxide in the past, and I think you previously said you already have that covered.

What kind of work is she in?

I don't know that all PRE's are super good doers, as mine does eat a fair amount when in work, and others I've dealt with have handled a good amount of hay and even some additional concentrated feed. So it depends on the horse, but I've not met one that had particularly high requirements.

Oddly enough I had a similar issue with sitting crooked on my horse. I tipped to the left. I also rode in a monoflap and my leg behind a block, so nothing bulky. However, it did end up being the saddle, and when I tried others (another brand entirely) I felt much better. My horse was also a tad asymmetrical, and I addressed that. However, if you've had this issue in the past, I suppose it is not such a fixable thing for you and some shapes simply won't work. I can totally understand how ones body just doesn't work with a horse that is wider.

I just find it odd how little food she is on that she still gets pulses. I don't know if something else is going on or what isn't working in the food. I mean, how did she do at her last home?

Either way, she may not be such an issue for someone with a different set-up and sounds like a nice horse, so best of luck to her and you if/when you do sell.


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## Red-1 (23 October 2020)

I am sad to hear that, she looks wonderful, but I guess she can be wonderful elsewhere and you can have a horse that fits in with your lifestyle better. 

On the subject of haulage, that is interesting and I will look into it for my lad with his lami, ems and cushings. I hate soaking hay with a vengeance, and my local farmer does a dry haylage that he says will be suitable, I will have it analysed and see what the starch/sugar situation is with that.


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## tallyho! (23 October 2020)

ycbm said:



			I'm having some big issues with Deza. First,  though I was warned how little PREs need to eat I had no real idea what people meant. I have her down to 5kg of haylage, soaked 24 hours, and then straw to top up,  muzzled for turnout and she is still getting pulses and not losing weight. I am absolutely hating having two horses on such different feed regimes, it's ruining my whole barn free range management system that has worked well for 20 years. 

Second,  she's too wide. I'm narrow through the hips,  old and creaky, and  I've begun to get issues  that I haven't had since I sold my cob.  Today a biomechanics instructor told me I was sat to the right and I haven't been told that since I sold my cob either.  It seems when I'm on a horse that's too wide I sit slanted and then can't get my right leg working properly and they fall in on the right rein.  Exactly the issue I had last time around.

She's a cracking mare but I feel a bit defeated and I'm seriously thinking of selling 

Click to expand...

Hmm... yes I know the feeling. One of the PRE's can eat anything and doesn't change, the other can breathe a blade of grass and her belly touches the ground. It's genetic I believe depending on the bloodlines. 

I always thought all horses need high fibre and low sugar... PRE's also need that but also protein. More protein makes the digestion longer. Since I added protein (quite a lot) we've not had to put the muzzle on - and I've kept the work load as high as she can handle. May work, as with all things, each horse is an indivijool!  My vet said all horses need to live on a mountain with no grass. He's right of course... anyone know of a sunny mountain this side of Andalusia?


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## CanteringCarrot (23 October 2020)

Oh the protein thing, that is an interesting point, my PRE is also on a high protein diet. He eats Agrobs MyoProtein flakes, a high protein muesli, and Brewer's Yeast. The muesli has a high fat content due to linseed in it. All is low sugar and starch. He also gets added Vitamin E.

He does well with this. No excess drinking, peeing, or smelly pee so I think it is not too much for his system.


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## LadyGascoyne (23 October 2020)

Would your fields handle a track system? Mim gets extraordinarily fat on grass and this year has actually worked really well for her.

I completely understand what you mean about two management systems - I had the ancient ISH and a pony with Mim last year, and it was exhausting to juggle them.

Re the width, my only thought is that sometimes it’s just the angle and the width combined, and maybe a change in saddle will shift where your hips are in relation to your knees?


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## Roxylola (23 October 2020)

Ugh, that's a bit rotten for you. I'm in an extra wide saddle and I feel your pain - funnily enough I seem to get shoved right by it too, again not an issue on narrower things.
As for management that sounds really tough, I cant suggest much - I'm sure there will be a way if you are determined to make it work, however nobody could blame you for finding her a home with a more suitable set up and a horse you love riding. Horses are expensive and time consuming, if it's not lighting you up personally I see nothing wrong with finding a horse a more suited home and you a more suited horse


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## ycbm (23 October 2020)

PurBee said:



			My mare, who looks weirdly so similar to your lindeza!...she’s half arab and half welsh D, black with splash of white on her rear hoof.

Like lindeza, held weight no matter how little i fed her. Fat pads appeared....im soaking hay for years, no change.

Quit that upon further research, added 10g per day of mag oxide, food grade. Magnesium is essential for sugars to be pushed into cells and used for energy. Without adequate magnesium the body will store sugars as fat. Magnesium is low in forage and grass, unless you add Dolomite to your paddocks.

Mine are on mineral/vit balancers and i assumed for ages that the mag in the mix was ‘expertly mixed’ to give balanced nutrition. But it isnt. Its mag content is far too low. So i add extra mag oxide ontop of generic balancer mix.

Secondly quit the straw. I know its a common top up for fatties but look at the research out there. Some straws are low sugar and some are very high and can be higher than grass hays.
Take a peek at this article on feeding straw and why its not a good idea for fatties/insulin resistance, unless you have a consisten supply/same supplier and get it tested to make sure the total sugar content is low:

https://gettyequinenutrition.com/pages/feeding-straw-to-the-insulin-resistant-horse-may-be-a-mistake



Next, i’d pick a haylage that’s high fibre. I wouldnt soak haylage as ive tried it in the past for the reasons you are but just for a couple of hours and i really didnt like the smell at the end ....gut instinct said not to continue, the sugars should all be fermented anyway with it being haylage.
I fed soaked haylage and she had raised foot pulses.
Many haylages are tetraploid ryegrass, and if cut early...around june...will be higher sugars and less fibre. If cut later its much higher in fibre and protein as the seedhead matures more and much lower in sugars.

Since stopping soaking hay/haylage ( free at last!!!) And just adding at least 10g per day of mag ox and getting high fibre haylage...my fat mare lost her fat pads...and i could feel her ribs and the consistent up and down raised pulses/laminitis scares are a thing of the past - AND she can eat all the grass she can get into her greedy self unmuzzled!

The only feed company using tetraploid ryegrass that really are high fibre and she looked the best Ever on and she was eating unsoaked 9kg of the stuff per 24hrs is ‘marksway hi-fibre’ Haylage. Being in the uk youll get it far cheaper than me importing it into ireland. Other says theyre hi-fibre but theyre not as hi fibre as the fore-mentioned supplier.

I’ve had my mare on other brands of ‘high fibre ryegrass haylage’ and she has pulsed feet within 48hrs. You can tell the really dodgy stuff by the very sweet sickly smell it has.....and its very glossy and golden yellow, almost tacky to touch. I now, never feed haylage that smells and feels like that....i call it ‘horse crack’....they love it due to it being partially fermented and high sugar.

On Marksway hi-fibre haylage she’s looked her best, had best foot growth, and her coat shiny. Apart from that she was getting a generic balancer....with added mag ox, in a handful of beet pulp. ....and all the grass she can eat during grazing months and she’s still slim!
i couldnt believe the next spring when she came in from grazing the first few weeks without raised pulses! That was the first time in years!

It’s worth trying a change as she really could slim down, mine no longer waddles around with a wide gut and fat pads while being starved. Its such a frustrating position to be in.

marksway also do timothy haylage which id recommend too, and i mix that in with their high fibre ryegrass for variety and more fibre/less sugar and to avoid a mono-diet of just ryegrass during winter, when there’s not much grass.

There’s hope for lindeza and your hips 🙂
		
Click to expand...


Thank you but she is already on magnesium and started on the winter supply of haylage that I have still to use after buying too much last year.


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## ycbm (23 October 2020)

LadyGascoyne said:



			Would your fields handle a track system? Mim gets extraordinarily fat on grass and this year has actually worked really well for her.

I completely understand what you mean about two management systems - I had the ancient ISH and a pony with Mim last year, and it was exhausting to juggle them.

Re the width, my only thought is that sometimes it’s just the angle and the width combined, and maybe a change in saddle will shift where your hips are in relation to your knees?
		
Click to expand...


I ride all my horses in the same saddles, WOWs and I have had them for years.  I really don't think it would help to do anything but ride shorter and I could do that in a WOW but it's not how I want to ride.  
.


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## ycbm (23 October 2020)

tallyho! said:



			Hmm... yes I know the feeling. One of the PRE's can eat anything and doesn't change, the other can breathe a blade of grass and her belly touches the ground. It's genetic I believe depending on the bloodlines. 

I always thought all horses need high fibre and low sugar... PRE's also need that but also protein. More protein makes the digestion longer. Since I added protein (quite a lot) we've not had to put the muzzle on - and I've kept the work load as high as she can handle. May work, as with all things, each horse is an indivijool!  My vet said all horses need to live on a mountain with no grass. He's right of course... anyone know of a sunny mountain this side of Andalusia?
		
Click to expand...

That's interesting about the protein, thanks. 

Work would work for her,  not for me.  I do not want to be driven to ride on wild winter days,  it turns keeping horses into a chore.  I don't ride every day,  I never have,  and I don't want to have to start now.  

I don't want a sharer, either,  I would rather sell her than manage a sharer.


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## ycbm (23 October 2020)

PurBee said:



			Also, just to say, any bowel bacterial change can cause footiness, raised pulses, and the soaked haylage may be causing a reaction to her bowel microbiome environment. Soaking for so long a fermented forage is encouraging it to ferment more in water and could be changing its properties, causing gastro upset and thus raised pulses/footiness.

If anything, in the meantime Before you decide if you want to change forage, I’d do the opposite you’re doing: id soak the straw and feed your haylage as it is, unsoaked, unless you know its high sugar haylage, id only soak for an hour and feed straight away, while adding in mag ox too.
		
Click to expand...

I have soaked haylage many times over the years with various horses, had two on it this time with both showing no problems with their droppings at all.  I don't see any reason why soaking haylage is in any way different from soaking grass.  At the time you soak it,  fermentation has stopped and I reckon is no more likely to restart in haylage than in hay.  It always smells great,  I would not feed it if it didn't. 

But the soaking has now stopped anyway as of today because I'm moving on to a less sugary big bale after using up the summer's small bale, and if she can only eat less of it she will have straw to top up. 
.


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## ycbm (23 October 2020)

I watched her last night and it was fascinating.  She had a choice of soaked haylage,  Top Chop zero and barley straw. She was eating the chop until Ludo started to pick at the straw,  then this happened






She was cramming as much in her mouth as she could get in it,  it was like watching a conveyor belt.

I went outside and moved the bin,  and she went back to the chop and then ate the haylage.

She's a competitive eater.  Keeping them together,  even later in the winter,  is never going to work.


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## Trouper (23 October 2020)

I'm so sorry to read this - you must be feeling sick about it.  I have nothing to add on feed advice I am afraid as there are others on this forum far more knowledgeable than me.  After all the upset earlier in the year and then the joy of finding her, this must just be the pits.


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## Asha (23 October 2020)

ive had a nightmare with hip pain when riding my ID mare, so i totally understand where you are coming from. The things that have worked for me are :
1.sports rehab - they want to get you doing sports pain free, he had me in the gym to strengthen up as well as massage. Plus sent me home with a lost of exercises. Im due another visit as creaking again, but hes only gone and got  covid. How inconvenient !
2. Cycling - if im having a particularly bad day i hop on the bike and it seems to free me up.
3. Dont be afraid to take paracetomol and ibuprofen . I take them on bad days and it really helps

I figure we need to use it or lose it, and im hell bent on not losing anything until i run out of options.

ive gone from having to hold onto furniture to walk around the house, to now being relatively pain free. It still hurts getting on and off

as for your mare getting chubby, its hard work having a good doer. Its even harder when they are retired.  Maybe pop her in the arena for a few hours in the ay to keep her off the grass. It works for my old girl Asha. She hates it, but i figure its better than getting lami.


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## scats (23 October 2020)

I feel your pain with the diet thing.  Millie is barrel-shaped (bigger than your mare, going by your photo) and it’s a constant battle.  She’s on 4kg hay overnight, which she doesn’t even eat all of (usually leaves about 1kg) muzzled during the day and has a balancer and a little handful of oats which her magnesium and joint supplement goes in.  I have to work her at least 5 days a week or she would balloon. She’s not greedy in the slightest, but her body just seems to be brilliant at storing every bit of food she gets!
Only good thing is, she never gets pulses.  Whereas Polly, much, much slimmer than Millie, gets pulses at the drop of a hat in summer.


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## CanteringCarrot (23 October 2020)

It's difficult to keep a horse like this without working them at least 5 days a week. Solid work makes them much easier to manage, but if you're not up for that, then I'd be sure not to get such a good doer.

She possibly does this competitive eating thing if she was fed in a herd previously and had to compete for food, but it is certainly interesting.

Honestly, if I think about it, having my PRE and TB at the same time would have been a bit difficult to manage if I wanted them together. Not impossible, but would take effort on my part. So I can see how this could be stressful if you want to simply enjoy horses at home, not ride every day, and keep them in a simple way.


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## ihatework (23 October 2020)

Exercise is the key, if you can set up a track this will help significantly, Ive seen it work wonders on a few


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## Goldenstar (23 October 2020)

I can’t ride H when he’s fat I can when he’s in shape .Well I can ride him but it’s not fun.
You have to get her to move more that’s seven days a week work and track would be marvellous .
I must say the time I teetered on the brink of a pre it was issues like this that stopped me .My friend who a pre person has most of hers grass free .
I somehow ended up with ID’s in stead 😧
What stage is she at with her work ?
Why do you need to feed her haylege ? Why not just leave her out with nothing but the grass .
Could you lock her out the shed so she’s colder .


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## ycbm (23 October 2020)

I like my regime the way it is GS, it works for me really well and it has for 20 years.  I don't want to ride more, it makes a job of it instead of a pleasure. I can't afford staff and I don't want sharer complications.   I don't want to have wet dirty horses to catch and ride on winter mornings.  I don't love the horse enough to change all that,  I'd rather change the horse.  There are plenty of nice horses out there that won't give me this aggro. 
.


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## Steerpike (23 October 2020)

I hope you find a horse that suits you and your system.


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## Michen (23 October 2020)

What a shame but you've had a fun few months with her and she's given you a spanish fix! Now your one step closer to the "right" horse.

But the crux of it is, clearly she hasn't grabbed you/you aren't bothered about her enough to "make" it work like you would if she had completely captured you. So I suspect there are other things about her that aren't perfect for you, either, otherwise you'd be more inclined to do so. And there's nothing wrong with that at all- horses are meant to be fun and whilst I'd do anything in the world to make things work for Boggle, I'm afraid if Bear was impacting my life negatively for some reason, I'd sell him too.

Sell her to someone who will adore her no matter what and find something that you will adore for all the right reasons. Life is too short!


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## Goldenstar (23 October 2020)

I have to ask why did you buy a Pre ?
They are well known to be difficult to manage in this respect .
however she well seem easily crack and get it done before the winter Gets worse and economic situation turns .

ETA how tall is she and how old .


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## CanteringCarrot (23 October 2020)

I would recommend that your future horse search differ from the last. Do not focus on Spanish, Arab, or natives if you don't want this scenario again. Something with some TB could give you a more slab sided mount(so, not wide) that doesn't get fat off of air. But anyway,  I'm sure you know this and you'll cross that bridge when you come to it 😉


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## Cortez (23 October 2020)

That's a bit pants, but there are plenty of horses out there that will suit your situation. I've had to keep some of my horses off grass entirely in the past: fatties are way more work than the feeder-uppers.


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## ihatework (23 October 2020)

I think Millipops needs to start playing the lottery!!


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## milliepops (23 October 2020)

ihatework said:



			I think Millipops needs to start playing the lottery!!
		
Click to expand...

haha yeah I sure do, because broad good doers that need loads of work are my specialist area!


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## ihatework (23 October 2020)

milliepops said:



			haha yeah I sure do, because broad good doers that need loads of work are my specialist area!
		
Click to expand...

And she would suit your riding skillset like a glove too I suspect! Get ticket buying. Or just be ‘extra nice’ to the OH 🤣


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## TPO (23 October 2020)

Obviously you can keep your horses as you please and it's your prerogative not to change any of your current management.

Keep, sell or gift (to MP 😉) is no ones business. However the way the horse is currently being kept is causing her "harm" in the form of consistently raised pulses. So surely changes are needed not only for her benefit but how do you propose to sell (vet) a horse with undiagnosed pulses.

Maybe its time to involve a vet for a more thorough examination if how her body is reacting to her management is so strange. 

There are exceptions of course but young, green horses typically need more consistent work than older and more experienced horses. As you dont have the inclination to provide this, and it is totally your right to do what is fun for you, then perhaps its worthwhile looking at sales livery. There she will get more work/exercise and they can tailor her management that in turn would hopefully eradicate the pulses and therefore increases the chance of you getting your money back.


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## Leafcutter (23 October 2020)

PurBee said:



			My mare, who looks weirdly so similar to your lindeza!...she’s half arab and half welsh D, black with splash of white on her rear hoof.

Like lindeza, held weight no matter how little i fed her. Fat pads appeared....im soaking hay for years, no change.

Quit that upon further research, added 10g per day of mag oxide, food grade. Magnesium is essential for sugars to be pushed into cells and used for energy. Without adequate magnesium the body will store sugars as fat. Magnesium is low in forage and grass, unless you add Dolomite to your paddocks.

Mine are on mineral/vit balancers and i assumed for ages that the mag in the mix was ‘expertly mixed’ to give balanced nutrition. But it isnt. Its mag content is far too low. So i add extra mag oxide ontop of generic balancer mix.

Secondly quit the straw. I know its a common top up for fatties but look at the research out there. Some straws are low sugar and some are very high and can be higher than grass hays.
Take a peek at this article on feeding straw and why its not a good idea for fatties/insulin resistance, unless you have a consisten supply/same supplier and get it tested to make sure the total sugar content is low:

https://gettyequinenutrition.com/pages/feeding-straw-to-the-insulin-resistant-horse-may-be-a-mistake



Next, i’d pick a haylage that’s high fibre. I wouldnt soak haylage as ive tried it in the past for the reasons you are but just for a couple of hours and i really didnt like the smell at the end ....gut instinct said not to continue, the sugars should all be fermented anyway with it being haylage.
I fed soaked haylage and she had raised foot pulses.
Many haylages are tetraploid ryegrass, and if cut early...around june...will be higher sugars and less fibre. If cut later its much higher in fibre and protein as the seedhead matures more and much lower in sugars.

Since stopping soaking hay/haylage ( free at last!!!) And just adding at least 10g per day of mag ox and getting high fibre haylage...my fat mare lost her fat pads...and i could feel her ribs and the consistent up and down raised pulses/laminitis scares are a thing of the past - AND she can eat all the grass she can get into her greedy self unmuzzled!

The only feed company using tetraploid ryegrass that really are high fibre and she looked the best Ever on and she was eating unsoaked 9kg of the stuff per 24hrs is ‘marksway hi-fibre’ Haylage. Being in the uk youll get it far cheaper than me importing it into ireland. Other says theyre hi-fibre but theyre not as hi fibre as the fore-mentioned supplier.

I’ve had my mare on other brands of ‘high fibre ryegrass haylage’ and she has pulsed feet within 48hrs. You can tell the really dodgy stuff by the very sweet sickly smell it has.....and its very glossy and golden yellow, almost tacky to touch. I now, never feed haylage that smells and feels like that....i call it ‘horse crack’....they love it due to it being partially fermented and high sugar.

On Marksway hi-fibre haylage she’s looked her best, had best foot growth, and her coat shiny. Apart from that she was getting a generic balancer....with added mag ox, in a handful of beet pulp. ....and all the grass she can eat during grazing months and she’s still slim!
i couldnt believe the next spring when she came in from grazing the first few weeks without raised pulses! That was the first time in years!

It’s worth trying a change as she really could slim down, mine no longer waddles around with a wide gut and fat pads while being starved. Its such a frustrating position to be in.

marksway also do timothy haylage which id recommend too, and i mix that in with their high fibre ryegrass for variety and more fibre/less sugar and to avoid a mono-diet of just ryegrass during winter, when there’s not much grass.

There’s hope for lindeza and your hips 🙂
		
Click to expand...

Agree about marksway hi fibre, it’s the only thing that keeps my very sugar-sensitive cob sound in the summer, along with very restricted grass. I’ve tried all sorts, but always gone back to marksway, it really does work.


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## doodle (23 October 2020)

It is a bit mean to suggest she got the wrong horse and should have gone for a different type. She was in a terribly situation and needed to get a horse as a companion very quickly.


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## CanteringCarrot (23 October 2020)

Kamikaze said:



			It is a bit mean to suggest she got the wrong horse and should have gone for a different type. She was in a terribly situation and needed to get a horse as a companion very quickly.
		
Click to expand...

It happens. The horse isn't the right fit. At the time when she was purchased, it may have seemed like a good fit. It happens to the best of us. If the horse doesn't suit, find it a home it is better suited for. No one is condemning anyone here.

However, saying she should've gone for a different type isn't wrong, but maybe not so "nice" and sometimes we just don't foresee how things will go. Many have bought a horse and got into it then decided it was the wrong match for management reasons, training reasons, etc. I am not looking to make anyone feel bad here.


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## Errin Paddywack (23 October 2020)

Trouble is, none of us have a crystal ball and we can only learn from experience.  The sort of horse that appeals to me I couldn't ride one side of now (probably never could).  I can't cope with wide horses and have been lucky to not have one up to now but the old girl we have taken on has turned out to be wide so it is doubtful if I will even attempt to get on her.  First thing my sister said when she sat on her was my god she's wide.  Luckily I am not fussed about riding these days and my sister loves riding her so all good.  I just have a lovely friend.


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## HashRouge (23 October 2020)

I do massively sympathise with having two horses who require different management. I used to have two good doers, but now the Arab is 27 she can eat as much as she like and doesn't seem to get fat, whereas the Welsh is currently the size of a hippo. He will winter out with no rug and won't have hay when the Arab starts having it, but it is a real pain and I did worry a lot about his weight.

Anyway, she's a smashing mare who will be someone's dream horse - don't feel bad if she isn't yours.

Maybe you should get that Arab this time


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## Chinchilla (23 October 2020)

Is it worth trialling metformin perhaps? 

Can sympathise with not wanting 2 horses on very different systems, though, particularly in winter; it's bloody exhausting, thankless work making sure everyone gets what they need and even then you worry someone's needs are being compromised on.


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## Steerpike (23 October 2020)

HashRouge said:



			I do massively sympathise with having two horses who require different management. I used to have two good doers, but now the Arab is 27 she can eat as much as she like and doesn't seem to get fat, whereas the Welsh is currently the size of a hippo. He will winter out with no rug and won't have hay when the Arab starts having it, but it is a real pain and I did worry a lot about his weight.

Anyway, she's a smashing mare who will be someone's dream horse - don't feel bad if she isn't yours.

Maybe you should get that Arab this time 

Click to expand...

I would be cautious getting an Arab, I have 10, some live off fresh air whilst others need feeding up, also some ride like tanks and are wide whilst others ride more like a TB.


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## Roxylola (23 October 2020)

My idea of good doer might be different to someone else's- knowing a type tend to be good doers doesnt really mean anything, theres good doers and there is really good doers. Theres surely next to nothing in the grass at the moment supercob is in a fair amount of work and i was horrified at the fat pads on his shoulders when i clipped him a week or two ago. 
Hindsight is a wonderful thing. At the time the horse fulfilled a need it's not working out as hoped. Theres no reason keeping battering on with something that's not working, better all round to move on


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## GinaGeo (23 October 2020)

Horses with different needs on the same system at home is hard.  I solved it by buying more, and now have two that live off grass. And two that get turned out. Obviously not a solution for you.

My fatty Connemara also has to be in proper work, if not I manage him with a muzzle (including when he's eating hay). 

Mine live in a similar system to you, free range with access to shelter and an off grass "track" (similar to your barn). My fatty when not in hard work wears a muzzle when eating his hay with the others and then in the day comes in and has a small, soaked trickle net. Metformin was a lifesaver earlier this year, when he was off work with an injury.

It is hard, and if you can't manage her, it makes sense to find her a home that can, and find yourself another that will fit your system and you better.


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## Goldenstar (23 October 2020)

Fat horses are a complete pita to deal with .


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## ycbm (23 October 2020)

Goldenstar said:



			I have to ask why did you buy a Pre ?
They are well known to be difficult to manage in this respect .
however she well seem easily crack and get it done before the winter Gets worse and economic situation turns .

ETA how tall is she and how old .
		
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I bought her because I was told they were different and I wanted to try different.  I also believed that the baroque shape would be narrower between the knees like Ludo is,  otherwise I would not have bought her because I already know too wide is a real issue for my narrow pelvis.  

She was bred in the UK and lived on grass 24/7 for 7 years.  There was no expectation that 'difficult', which I was prepared for,  was going to turn into 'turn your entire management system on its head', which I am not prepared for.  

She is 15.2 - 3, haven't measured her yet but definitely not 16hh from the look of her,  and 7 years old.


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## HashRouge (23 October 2020)

Steerpike said:



			I would be cautious getting an Arab, I have 10, some live off fresh air whilst others need feeding up, also some ride like tanks and are wide whilst others ride more like a TB.
		
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Same with most breeds though - just something to look out for when buying.


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## ycbm (23 October 2020)

GinaGeo said:



			Horses with different needs on the same system at home is hard.  I solved it by buying more, and now have two that live off grass. And two that get turned out. Obviously not a solution for you.

My fatty Connemara also has to be in proper work, if not I manage him with a muzzle (including when he's eating hay). 

Mine live in a similar system to you, free range with access to shelter and an off grass "track" (similar to your barn). My fatty when not in hard work wears a muzzle when eating his hay with the others and then in the day comes in and has a small, soaked trickle net. Metformin was a lifesaver earlier this year, when he was off work with an injury.

It is hard, and if you can't manage her, it makes sense to find her a home that can, and find yourself another that will fit your system and you better.
		
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Buy more!  I like it 🤣


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## Goldenstar (23 October 2020)

I keep my ears open and I will tell the man competes Sky he’s out and about alot more than me .


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## milliepops (23 October 2020)

HashRouge said:



			Same with most breeds though - just something to look out for when buying.
		
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yup the PRE i used to ride was pretty narrow compared to many.  there's quite a variation in many breeds, my welsh is kinda in the middle but they come in a huge range from tank to wirey.


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## ycbm (23 October 2020)

Chinchilla said:



			Is it worth trialling metformin perhaps? 

Can sympathise with not wanting 2 horses on very different systems, though, particularly in winter; it's bloody exhausting, thankless work making sure everyone gets what they need and even then you worry someone's needs are being compromised on.
		
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I wouldn't put a horse on a drug if its needs can be met with diet,  C. Hers can,  just not in a way I like!


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## Palindrome (23 October 2020)

It's a shame it didn't work out, ship her to me....


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## ycbm (23 October 2020)

Pulses were very difficult to find today,  the change to straw seems to be working, thank goodness.  
.


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## Tarragon (23 October 2020)

Regarding the "too wide" for you situation, have you considered doing something like Pilates for your self to loosen up your hips?


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## Goldenstar (23 October 2020)

I really think I would give no haylege


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## PapaverFollis (23 October 2020)

Have you ever tried a Heather Moffat Hip Saver pad? I don't know much about them but I don't think they are just for the EE saddles.


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## tristar (23 October 2020)

thefarsideofthefield said:



			According to ' My Big Book of Spanish Riding ' -  (" El Spookas . Chapter 7 " ) If your horse takes the Pisto and does a Tortillas you should put your Patatas Bravos on and give it a Tapas with your stick .

You're welcome .
		
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oohh, will you give me some spanish lessons please!   i`m  feeling hungry


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## ycbm (23 October 2020)

Tarragon said:



			Regarding the "too wide" for you situation, have you considered doing something like Pilates for your self to loosen up your hips?
		
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I already do. I'm not tight through the hips,  I'm actually slightly hypermobile.  I am just built very small boned.  I wear children's watches and I can even fasten a child's watch around my ankle in spite of being 5ft 8.


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## ycbm (23 October 2020)

Goldenstar said:



			I really think I would give no haylege
		
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Then I would  waste half of each bale of big bale haylage that I already have here,  because it will be open too long to feed before it is all used up. 

Her pulses were extremely difficult to detect today after a couple of days on a mix of 5kg haylage and ad lib straw.  If that works I can't see why it would be sensible to buy more straw (which I have nowhere easy to store) when I already have haylage.  

Obviously if she doesn't lose weight on that before spring,  then it's a different matter.  
.


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## Mule (23 October 2020)

I think it's good you know it's a problem and sound ready to face up to it. Even without the width problem, having to manage two horses in such different ways is a pain, especially when you are happy with your system. I love the shared barn.


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## palo1 (23 October 2020)

How frustrating for you @ycbm. I have 2 different sorts; one slab sided anglo (appaloosa) type who needs food a bit but generally does well and my young Welsh D who I have had to work on all summer to lose a bit of weight.  She will winter without a rug and without hard feed at all and may possibly have to have rationed hay to get her slim enough for the spring. However I anticipate her doing more work next spring and I love her enough to find workarounds.  It sounds like you don't love your PRE enough to make the significant effort needed. Horses are hard enough work so why keep one you don't want to work 'for' iykwim?  Lots of people would love a UK bred PRE regardless of management issues (within reason).  However, haylage can be tricky, certainly not ideal for a good doer.  

Maybe when you are looking for the next one, the questions you ask should relate closely to how compatible that would be to your set up as that works for you and you don't want to change it.  That may not be the 'standard' way of looking for a horse but if the set up you have is the key for your enjoyment then you have to make fitting in to your set up the important bit.  It sounds as if possibly, a TB that you really like could work better.  Hope you either sort things or can find a more suitable pal for Ludo and riding horse for you.


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## Littlewills (23 October 2020)

ycbm said:



			Then I would  waste half of each bale of big bale haylage that I already have here,  because it will be open too long to feed before it is all used up.

Her pulses were extremely difficult to detect today after a couple of days on a mix of 5kg haylage and ad lib straw.  If that works I can't see why it would be sensible to buy more straw (which I have nowhere easy to store) when I already have haylage. 

Obviously if she doesn't lose weight on that before spring,  then it's a different matter. 
.
		
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Surely its better to waste haylage than feed it to a horse who cant eat it without it causing problems?


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## Goldenstar (23 October 2020)

ycbm said:



			Then I would  waste half of each bale of big bale haylage that I already have here,  because it will be open too long to feed before it is all used up.

Her pulses were extremely difficult to detect today after a couple of days on a mix of 5kg haylage and ad lib straw.  If that works I can't see why it would be sensible to buy more straw (which I have nowhere easy to store) when I already have haylage. 

Obviously if she doesn't lose weight on that before spring,  then it's a different matter. 
.
		
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I would burn it or compost it before I gave it to a fat horse .


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## ycbm (23 October 2020)

Littlewills said:



			Surely its better to waste haylage than feed it to a horse who cant eat it without it causing problems?
		
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Goldenstar said:



			I would burn it or compost it before I gave it to a fat horse .
		
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Are either of you reading the posts where I have said that her pulses have reduced since I started her on the big bale in the last couple of days? 

Only an expert could have found them this morning, they were very,  very faint.  
.


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## Goldenstar (23 October 2020)

She’s still fat and does not need high energy forage .
to me it makes no sense to feed a fat horse who shows metabolic symptoms at times haylege when she’s overweight .


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## ycbm (23 October 2020)

It's good of you to be concerned GS but I did not ask for advice. You have not seen the haylage she is on,  not all haylage is the same.  She is doing well.  An instructor yesterday remarked on how huge her movement is and she is completely sound.   If this new regime does not suit her it will be changed, but the signs right now are that it is suiting her just fine.


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## Goldenstar (23 October 2020)

I am not giving you advice I am pointing out  I think it’s bonkers to post that you are considering selling a horse because it’s fat and are feeding it haylege because if you don’t it will be wasted.
It makes no sense .


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## LadyGascoyne (23 October 2020)

Steerpike said:



			I would be cautious getting an Arab, I have 10, some live off fresh air whilst others need feeding up, also some ride like tanks and are wide whilst others ride more like a TB.
		
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Agree with this. Mimosa (82% Arab) is much wider that Milagra (Andalusian but unregistered). She’s shorter in the body too so she’s like a little barrel ok toothpicks. 

She takes up my leg nicely though 😂 the only positive of barrel-like ponies.


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## ycbm (23 October 2020)

Goldenstar said:



			I am not giving you advice I am pointing out  I think it’s bonkers to post that you are considering selling a horse because it’s fat and are feeding it haylege because if you don’t it will be wasted.
It makes no sense .
		
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I agree with you that it would be bonkers to do that if she was not doing better on the big bale I have just started than on the small bale soaked I have just finished.  If her pulses stay where they are now and she is losing weight then there is no issue. When there is an issue,  I will change things.  I'm feeding it because there is no point wasting it if it suits her,  not simply because I don't want it wasted.  I am not a fool.  

Not all haylage is the same and some is perfectly safe for dieting horses. 
.


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## ycbm (23 October 2020)

LadyGascoyne said:



			Agree with this. Mimosa (82% Arab) is much wider that Milagra (Andalusian but unregistered). She’s shorter in the body too so she’s like a little barrel ok toothpicks. 

She takes up my leg nicely though 😂 the only positive of barrel-like ponies.
		
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There will be no Arab.  I am having too many flashbacks of the one-person  Arab I owned 40 years ago 🤣


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## Michen (23 October 2020)

ycbm said:



			I agree with you that it would be bonkers to do that if she was not doing better on the big bale i have just started than on the small bale soaked I have just finished. 

Not all haylage is the same and some is perfectly safe for dieting horses.
.
		
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Tbf isn’t it often better in some ways for laminitis? I believe some of the bagged stuff has a lower sugar content than hay, even when soaked?


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## LadyGascoyne (23 October 2020)

https://www.horsemart.co.uk/for-sale-kyzyl-doubloon-/Horses/610604

I’ll just leave this here as I’ve always wanted one but I’m not sure I could do one justice with my happy hacker lifestyle at the moment. Four whites and a blaze too which I love on a bay.


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## milliepops (23 October 2020)

LadyGascoyne said:



https://www.horsemart.co.uk/for-sale-kyzyl-doubloon-/Horses/610604

I’ll just leave this here as I’ve always wanted one but I’m not sure I could do one justice with my happy hacker lifestyle at the moment. Four whites and a blaze too which I love on a bay.
		
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just round the corner from me. I know the girl who took it in hand showing.


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## ycbm (23 October 2020)

Michen said:



			Tbf isn’t it often better in some ways for laminitis? I believe some of the bagged stuff has a lower sugar content than hay, even when soaked?
		
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Yup. The sugar is at least partly fermented,  so for any one field of grass it should be lower if made as haylage than hay.  And just like hay,  it's very dependent on both the grass it was made from and when it was made. The big bale stuff I have is very high fibre, lots of stem,  little leaf and not at all rich.


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## ycbm (23 October 2020)

LadyGascoyne said:



https://www.horsemart.co.uk/for-sale-kyzyl-doubloon-/Horses/610604

I’ll just leave this here as I’ve always wanted one but I’m not sure I could do one justice with my happy hacker lifestyle at the moment. Four whites and a blaze too which I love on a bay.
		
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Very nice!   I am contemplating buying a 2 year old,  so that if Deza does go I don't have a companion problem.  I'm also very happy to have only one horse in work over winter.  He's more than I want to pay though.


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## Clodagh (23 October 2020)

Hay or haylage can surely only have as much sugar in as the grass it was made from? It doesn't manufacture more in the fermenting process? So old meadow haylage better than ryegrass hay , as an example.


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## ycbm (23 October 2020)

Clodagh said:



			Hay or haylage can surely only have as much sugar in as the grass it was made from? It doesn't manufacture more in the fermenting process? So old meadow haylage better than ryegrass hay , as an example.
		
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Providing the horse can deal with the higher acidity of haylage,  exactly.
.


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## Goldenstar (23 October 2020)

It depends on the analysis.
Hay can have more energy in it that haylege and have less fibre .
Hay or haylege if does not matter your horse is fat reduce its Forage and give straw in some form .
I don’t really feed hard feed any more only when they are in the hardest work in depths of winter so if my horses get fatter I have no choice but to reduce forage .
In summer  that means restricting their grass as well .


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## alexomahony (23 October 2020)

She's stunning! With a name like that, I'd be tempted to shorten it to 'Lindy'


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## Bellaboo18 (23 October 2020)

Michen said:



			What a shame but you've had a fun few months with her and she's given you a spanish fix! Now your one step closer to the "right" horse.

But the crux of it is, clearly she hasn't grabbed you/you aren't bothered about her enough to "make" it work like you would if she had completely captured you. So I suspect there are other things about her that aren't perfect for you, either, otherwise you'd be more inclined to do so. And there's nothing wrong with that at all- horses are meant to be fun and whilst I'd do anything in the world to make things work for Boggle, I'm afraid if Bear was impacting my life negatively for some reason, I'd sell him too.

Sell her to someone who will adore her no matter what and find something that you will adore for all the right reasons. Life is too short!
		
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This 100%. We can chat about haylage v hay all night. This horse hasn't grabbed your heart. She's clearly a lovely horse who will easily find a great home. 

We can't be the right match for every horse.


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## palo1 (23 October 2020)

milliepops said:



			just round the corner from me. I know the girl who took it in hand showing.
		
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Me too!!   I have always wanted an Akyl Teke but I don't think they are always easy, temperament wise...!!  I think the Kyzyl Teke's are good and are British bred by someone who knows them well but I have always wondered about wise it is to take a Teke out of it's natural environment; they are a bit of a specialist sort of horse care-wise I understand.


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## Steerpike (23 October 2020)

I guess it sometimes takes a few attempts to find a horse that will suit, I've must be very lucky to get on with all of mine 😊


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## Bellaboo18 (23 October 2020)

Steerpike said:



			I guess it sometimes takes a few attempts to find a horse that will suit, I've must be very lucky to get on with all of mine 😊
		
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I get on with all of mine 😜 but one is extremely special to me and there's nothing i wouldnt do to make it work... Track ✅ worked twice a day ✅ 4.30am start ✅ huge expense ✅.... They all get what they need but some just stand out.


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## milliepops (23 October 2020)

Bellaboo18 said:



			I get on with all of mine 😜 but one is extremely special to me and there's nothing i wouldnt do to make it work... Track ✅ worked twice a day ✅ 4.30am start ✅ huge expense ✅.... They all get what they need but some just stand out.
		
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I've got one that I have had to shape my whole life around too, stupendously awkward and hard work but worth it . I doubt anyone else would put themselves out for her though 😂 its fairly ridiculous 🙄


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## Steerpike (23 October 2020)

I've got 2 that I brought unseen, brilliant to ride but completely different to ride and management wise one needs lots of bucket feeds and haylage the other lives off fresh air, one looks more like a 16h TB the other a 14h mini tank, but that's horses I think you have to be flexible to a point when it comes to management.


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## Bellaboo18 (23 October 2020)

milliepops said:



			I've got one that I have had to shape my whole life around too, stupendously awkward and hard work but worth it . I doubt anyone else would put themselves out for her though 😂 its fairly ridiculous 🙄
		
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Yep completely ridiculous but we won't stop doing it! 😁


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## Evie91 (23 October 2020)

ycbm said:



			I watched her last night and it was fascinating.  She had a choice of soaked haylage,  Top Chop zero and barley straw. She was eating the chop until Ludo started to pick at the straw,  then this happened






She was cramming as much in her mouth as she could get in it,  it was like watching a conveyor belt.

Apologies if thread has moved on, I’m just catching up. I read this and it exactly the same as my share horse - also a PRE. Still out in a muzzle  and literally hoovers up hay and haylage - never thought it possible horse could eat so quickly (had a tb who was similar but PRE’s mouthfuls are something else).  On a permanent diet, half days grazing then comes in for a rest (To give her chops and enforced rest). My preference is to feed forage ad lib but genuinely couldn’t with her, she just wouldn’t stop!

However, she has a heart as big as a bucket, loves a bit of drama (very Spanish!) and is always good fun- never boring!!!
		
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## RHM (23 October 2020)

LadyGascoyne said:



https://www.horsemart.co.uk/for-sale-kyzyl-doubloon-/Horses/610604

I’ll just leave this here as I’ve always wanted one but I’m not sure I could do one justice with my happy hacker lifestyle at the moment. Four whites and a blaze too which I love on a bay.
		
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He is beautiful! Someone please buy him so I can keep lusting after him 😍

I have two with very different needs so I know how tricky it can be! Would it not be a really easy solution to separate them over night so she can have straw and him haylage? But if she doesn’t light your heart on fire move her on. Horses are a complete graft at the best of times, you need horses where the hard work doesn’t feel like a chore. I would move mountains for mine, even the new one has stolen my heart. If you don’t feel like that there will be one out there that you will. Find her a good home and buy that beautiful Akhal-Teke 😂


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## atropa (23 October 2020)

palo1 said:



			Me too!!  I have always wanted an Akyl Teke but I don't think they are always easy, temperament wise...!!  I think the Kyzyl Teke's are good and are British bred by someone who knows them well but I have always wondered about wise it is to take a Teke out of it's natural environment; they are a bit of a specialist sort of horse care-wise I understand. 

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Sorry to derail the thread a bit but what kinda of specialist care do Tekes need? I don't know much about them?

My little native has recently had to have a huge overhaul of her management due to potential EMS. Its a lot more work (weighing and soaking hay, riding tonight in peeing cold rain and going to up exercise to twice a day), money (adding a balancer as recommended by vet), and heartache (seeing her step away as I come to muzzle her for turnout), but despite the fact that she can be the most frustrating horse in the world, I cant imagine not doing it for her. I love her even when I don't like her. I think OP that your mind is already made up.


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## palo1 (23 October 2020)

I think if ycbm wants a horse that doesn't need a very particular regime then an Akhal Teke is probably not the thing tbh!!  The people I know who have them are fairly clear about everything needing to be tailored to their individual characters and one of the most respected studs ensure that each Teke has 1 particular handler only due to their very sensitive and individual natures.  I think the Kyzyl line is probably much more laid back but I don't think you can ever hope to achieve the true Teke 'look' or talents in the environment available in this country.


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## atropa (23 October 2020)

palo1 said:



			I think if ycbm wants a horse that doesn't need a very particular regime then an Akhal Teke is probably not the thing tbh!!  The people I know who have them are fairly clear about everything needing to be tailored to their individual characters and one of the most respected studs ensure that each Teke has 1 particular handler only due to their very sensitive and individual natures.  I think the Kyzyl line is probably much more laid back but I don't think you can ever hope to achieve the true Teke 'look' or talents in the environment available in this country. 

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Thanks, thats really interesting!


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## palo1 (23 October 2020)

atropa said:



			Sorry to derail the thread a bit but what kinda of specialist care do Tekes need? I don't know much about them?

My little native has recently had to have a huge overhaul of her management due to potential EMS. Its a lot more work (weighing and soaking hay, riding tonight in peeing cold rain and going to up exercise to twice a day), money (adding a balancer as recommended by vet), and heartache (seeing her step away as I come to muzzle her for turnout), but despite the fact that she can be the most frustrating horse in the world, I cant imagine not doing it for her. I love her even when I don't like her. I think OP that your mind is already made up.
		
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Mmm well I am certainly no expert BUT when I was looking to buy a well bred Akhal Teke I was told by Russian and Kazhaky breeders that coat care can be tricky in a wet/damp environment - the original Akhal Teke evolved in very dry places so had no real need of the kind of waterproofing one might want for the UK climate for one thing. Apart from anything else that can make getting the famous metallic bloom on the coat very difficult.  Not impossible but harder work. Another issue is the temperament - they tend to be very much one person animals and in fact this characteristic is prized in some bloodlines.  They can be quick to aggression, highly alert to danger and sensitive emotionally.  For UK owners the conformation of the traditional teke can prove very trying in terms of ailments - not because they are not tough, sound or hardy but because vets, farriers etc often put difficulties down to their slightly unusual conformation which can be very frustrating in terms of identifying problems.  I understand the Kyzyl line are slightly diluted (which actually wouldn't appeal to me tbh) so would probably be much easier but a true Akhal Teke is definately not just any kind of horse. They are very beautiful and special I think but I decided that until I was retired they would probably be a project too far!!


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## doodle (23 October 2020)

There is nothing wrong with deciding a horse is not for you, for whatever reason that is. She suited the job at the time so I don’t think anyone can make a judgement as to “why” she was bought. I bought the wrong horse. I bought a horse for the wrong reason (I had just lost 2 and felt if I didn’t get another now I would never get another). He was sold on to a much more suitable home.


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## Zuzan (23 October 2020)

ycbm said:



			I don't think so PaS.  It's the width between my knees that's the issue and my knees are as close to her as you can get,  they aren't on the blocks, they are behind them, and it's a monoflap.
		
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Hi I am similarly narrow hipped and have a very wide flat backed horse .. have found that the Hidalgo Venice Dressage saddle has a great seat with a good twist which means I don't feel like my legs are being twisted out of my hips (if you know what I mean) .. NB it's the leather tree version.  Although it's dressage cut I can easily get into forward seat for fast work out hacking in it.   Am sure there are other saddles that also have this ability to sit on a wide horse but with quite a narrow twist without punishing the horses back but this is just what I've found.


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## ycbm (23 October 2020)

Zuzan said:



			Hi I am similarly narrow hipped and have a very wide flat backed horse .. have found that the Hidalgo Venice Dressage saddle has a great seat with a good twist which means I don't feel like my legs are being twisted out of my hips (if you know what I mean) .. NB it's the leather tree version.  Although it's dressage cut I can easily get into forward seat for fast work out hacking in it.   Am sure there are other saddles that also have this ability to sit on a wide horse but with quite a narrow twist without punishing the horses back but this is just what I've found.
		
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It's not the width at the twist which is the issue. WOW saddles that I use  have a great twist for women.  It's the width at the knee. My other horse is in an identical saddle and I don't sit twisted on him.  The only other horse I've had where I was told I was sitting twisted was a similarly 'wide at my knees' cob.  It felt like coming home when I bought a TB to replace him.  I posted about it 2 years ago.  
.


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## ycbm (23 October 2020)

Kamikaze said:



			There is nothing wrong with deciding a horse is not for you, for whatever reason that is. She suited the job at the time so I don’t think anyone can make a judgement as to “why” she was bought. I bought the wrong horse. I bought a horse for the wrong reason (I had just lost 2 and felt if I didn’t get another now I would never get another). He was sold on to a much more suitable home.
		
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I never understand why people stick with sellable horses that they aren't having fun with,  K.  Both you and the horse won by changing homes. 

I never try and buy 'the right' horse.   I always buy the first good horse that  I come across that I like that I'm reasonably sure I can sell on if we don't gel.  Deza was bought because I really wanted to try training a Spanish horse and she is a lovely mare who was  in the right place at the right time and the right price.  I don't regret it for a moment,  but if I decide to sell I won't regret that either. 
.


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## ycbm (23 October 2020)

I've  loved  Akhal Tekes since I saw one on a riding holiday at 15, but I won't be buying one! 
.


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## Cortez (23 October 2020)

ycbm said:



			I've  loved  Akhal Tekes since I saw one on a riding holiday at 15, but I won't be buying one!
.
		
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Good decision: that "look-of-eagles" thing should be a clue....


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## Goldenstar (23 October 2020)

There where two Akhal Tekes on the yard I rode on in Turkey chestnuts with that weird green sheen they have they walked like elf horses about the place aloof and beautiful .
I would have loved one when I was younger .


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## ycbm (23 October 2020)

The hollow hair coat sheen is like something from another world,  isn't it?  Just beautiful.  
.


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## chaps89 (23 October 2020)

I had a PB akhal-teke on LWVTB a few years ago.
He went back but he absolutely took a piece of my heart with him. Very very sensitive one person horse. 
I adored him but had to make the sensible decision that bringing him on in Surrey, with fast busy roads, was almost certainly going to be a disaster sooner rather than later.
I had a professional transporter take him back for me. She green yards and transports alot of abandoned horses, she knows her stuff. She had to pull in at some services and have an emergency vet out to sedate him to get him back safely/in 1 piece, not something she will have done lightly.
I still follow his endurance results even now 5 years later, though he seemed to get vetted out lame alot and didn't do anything last year, so who knows, maybe that was a lucky escape too?
He had the gorgeous metallic coat as well.

Anyway, sorry de-railing your thread OP.
I have an EMS pony, it is jolly hard work and difficult to manage unless you can adjust the yard set up. Luckily I love riding whatever the weather, however I feel all year round but I do absolutely understand the additional pressure of not wanting to have to ride. 
For me it's worth it, she's incredible but I can quite understand not everyone would want to make the sacrifices and adjustments needed.
I'm sure you'll work it out, whether that's a sell on or an adjustment in management


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## SatansLittleHelper (24 October 2020)

I gave up trying to buy the "right" horse snd bought a "good" one instead...Best thing I've done so far...he's such a chilled out dude 😎
At least Deza has stayed sound and you can sell her, esp in the current market. 
With all due respect Im not sure I understand the fascination with PRE's but then I'm most definitely #TeamLudo 😂 Do you definitely want/need the stress etc of having 2 in work...?? Could you not just get Ludo a companion..??


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## ycbm (24 October 2020)

I'd really like to be down to one ridden for winter SLH. But I like having 'a spare' in case of illness,  and I like the contrast when the weather isn't bad day after day.   

If one of my trainers says they have a client for Deza at a sensible price I would let her go and buy a 2 or 3 year old that's got a lot of TB in it.

Ludo was a miraculous chance find,  he's been nothing but a joy to ride and he is such a sweet character. And he's going brown!  
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## Red-1 (24 October 2020)

ycbm said:



			I never understand why people stick with sellable horses that they aren't having fun with,  K.  Both you and the horse won by changing homes.

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I agree with this. A few years back I bought a horse for Mr Red and I to share. I had retired from work because of bad hips/ back when riding 17.2 for hours at a time, but thought a leisure horse of the same dimensions would be OK for an hour a day. My hips hurt so I sold.

I was surprised how many people thought I was 'wrong' somehow. She was only here for 6 days, went to my friend (who has a professional yard) to sell and sold well after a few shows.

I also just sold my lovely young horse because my head is not in the right place. She also went to my professional friend, and sold pretty much instantaneously after a few weeks and a few shows. I am really enjoying her news and photos. She is out eventing now, where she should be, while I am am a lot happier with Rigsby, who on paper is a 'bad buy'.

They take a lot of keeping, you need to have one that makes your heart sing. I smile every time I look at Rigsby. It is not about what we do, it is about happiness.


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## palo1 (24 October 2020)

Cortez said:



			Good decision: that "look-of-eagles" thing should be a clue....
		
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Absolutely  Akhal Tekes are so other-worldly though and I still peruse some of the Kazakh breeders pages (love pictures of horses wearing necklaces!!).  I decided that the 'look of dragons' was probably easier though my beautiful appaloosa/arab has a slight 'look of something' too and he is super sensitive and quite a management challenge in himself. Horses, for most of us, are supposed to be fun so why make it harder for ourselves?


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## Goldenstar (24 October 2020)

just look at him you would not want to cross him would you .


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## Bernster (24 October 2020)

He really does have a dragon like face!


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## palo1 (24 October 2020)

Goldenstar said:



			just look at him you would not want to cross him would you .
		
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I don't want to derail @ycbm's thread but they have a deserved reputation for 'snapping' quite lethally when provoked.  That is a skill set and attitude that may well be desirable in some situations but probably not in a 12x12 stable!  The nearest you might find to this 'look' without the particular nature and needs of a Teke is probably an English TB and I think that is what ycbm might consider if Deza can't work out.  Sounds like that might be a good match for Ludo.


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## SatansLittleHelper (24 October 2020)

palo1 said:



			Absolutely  Akhal Tekes are so other-worldly though and I still peruse some of the Kazakh breeders pages (love pictures of horses wearing necklaces!!).  I decided that the 'look of dragons' was probably easier though my beautiful appaloosa/arab has a slight 'look of something' too and he is super sensitive and quite a management challenge in himself. Horses, for most of us, are supposed to be fun so why make it harder for ourselves?

View attachment 57603

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Is it only me that thinks that is hideous..?! 😱😱😱😱😳😳😳😳


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## Errin Paddywack (24 October 2020)

It doesn't look real.


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## ycbm (24 October 2020)

palo1 said:



			Absolutely  Akhal Tekes are so other-worldly though and I still peruse some of the Kazakh breeders pages (love pictures of horses wearing necklaces!!).  I decided that the 'look of dragons' was probably easier though my beautiful appaloosa/arab has a slight 'look of something' too and he is super sensitive and quite a management challenge in himself. Horses, for most of us, are supposed to be fun so why make it harder for ourselves?

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Ooh, no, too extreme!
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## palo1 (24 October 2020)

SatansLittleHelper said:



			Is it only me that thinks that is hideous..?! 😱😱😱😱😳😳😳😳
		
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I think they are probably a very acquired taste!  Having seen some in their natural environment (Kazakhstan) I think they are fabulous but not remotely to the usual European taste.   That is probably a good thing.


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## ycbm (24 October 2020)

Today she was just super in an incredibly windy arena.  If I can get her losing weight without soaking stuff maybe she can stay a while longer 😁. 
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## PapaverFollis (24 October 2020)

If she's good in the wind she can come live with me. Her and The Beast can starve together. 😂


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## Pinkvboots (25 October 2020)

Steerpike said:



			I would be cautious getting an Arab, I have 10, some live off fresh air whilst others need feeding up, also some ride like tanks and are wide whilst others ride more like a TB.
		
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This is very true I have 2 one is a slightly better doer so not too difficult, both are built like barrels in xx wide saddles but I am used to it and like a wider horse.

I have been around Arabs for years and they vary so much in build width and weight.


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## ycbm (25 October 2020)

Feeding is going well,  pulses are clear,   and looks like we definitely have some weight loss going on,  hips are emerging, but whether she stays or goes might be taken out of my hands. 

Since having the lesson with the biomechanics orientated instructor on Thursday who pointed out I was sat to the right,  I am checking and constantly readjusting to sit level.  Now I have hip and knee niggles.  If those don't stop,  then I just can't sit level on her. I have checked her over carefully today and I can see atrophy on the right hand side of her back under the saddle.  Clearly,  if I can't sit level without pain and she is damaged by it,  then the option to keep her is out the window, for her own sake.  

I spent 25 years effort and stress and thousands of pounds  changing saddles to fit horses.  15 years ago I found WOWs, which I absolutely rate for their flexible twist and adjustability. Because of how freely horses usually move in them,  I swore i would never put another horse in a fixed tree. Changing saddles is not an option I want to consider. I don't believe it would help with this problem if I did. 

For the next month I'll be concentrating on sitting straight and monitoring her back and my pain levels.  Then I'll take stock of where we are at.


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## DiNozzo (25 October 2020)

ycbm said:



			Feeding is going well,  pulses are clear,   and looks like we definitely have some weight loss going on,  hips are emerging, but whether she stays or goes might be taken out of my hands.

Since having the lesson with the biomechanics orientated instructor on Thursday who pointed out I was sat to the right,  I am checking and constantly readjusting to sit level.  Now I have hip and knee niggles.  If those don't stop,  then I just can't sit level on her. I have checked her over carefully today and I can see atrophy on the right hand side of her back under the saddle.  Clearly,  if I can't sit level without pain and she is damaged by it,  then the option to keep her is out the window, for her own sake. 

I spent 25 years effort and stress and thousands of pounds  changing saddles to fit horses.  15 years ago I found WOWs, which I absolutely rate for their flexible twist and adjustability. Because of how freely horses usually move in them,  I swore i would never put another horse in a fixed tree. Changing saddles is not an option I want to consider. I don't believe it would help with this problem if I did.

For the next month I'll be concentrating on sitting straight and monitoring her back and my pain levels.  Then I'll take stock of where we are at.
		
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I haven't sat in a WOW for a long time, but they used to be really chunky. Would it be worth, if she's *just* that bit too wide, trying a close contact? Or a slimmer saddle?


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## ycbm (25 October 2020)

DiNozzo said:



			I haven't sat in a WOW for a long time, but they used to be really chunky. Would it be worth, if she's *just* that bit too wide, trying a close contact? Or a slimmer saddle?
		
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Thank you for trying to help,  but paragraph 3 answers that question.  
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## Pinkvboots (25 October 2020)

ycbm said:



			Feeding is going well,  pulses are clear,   and looks like we definitely have some weight loss going on,  hips are emerging, but whether she stays or goes might be taken out of my hands. 

Since having the lesson with the biomechanics orientated instructor on Thursday who pointed out I was sat to the right,  I am checking and constantly readjusting to sit level.  Now I have hip and knee niggles.  If those don't stop,  then I just can't sit level on her. I have checked her over carefully today and I can see atrophy on the right hand side of her back under the saddle.  Clearly,  if I can't sit level without pain and she is damaged by it,  then the option to keep her is out the window, for her own sake.  

I spent 25 years effort and stress and thousands of pounds  changing saddles to fit horses.  15 years ago I found WOWs, which I absolutely rate for their flexible twist and adjustability. Because of how freely horses usually move in them,  I swore i would never put another horse in a fixed tree. Changing saddles is not an option I want to consider. I don't believe it would help with this problem if I did. 

For the next month I'll be concentrating on sitting straight and monitoring her back and my pain levels.  Then I'll take stock of where we are at.
		
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Fwiw I totally understand about the saddles and if she is wide putting a narrow twist saddle on is often detrimental, and if it's the issue of your knees then no saddle is going to change how wide she is that far down.


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## Flame_ (25 October 2020)

Aw, I've not been on this thread for ages and I've just read the last couple of pages. Sorry to hear things aren't working out well.

FWIW I would, and do, feed hay not haylage and I'd get a sound straightforward saddle - innovative ones are "the solution" on some horses and an absolute nightmare on others (I have a beautiful, super comfy, great for my back reactor panel sat in my house because horse prefers the rock hard, ancient, yellow GP off ebay).


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## Cortez (25 October 2020)

ycbm said:



			Feeding is going well,  pulses are clear,   and looks like we definitely have some weight loss going on,  hips are emerging, but whether she stays or goes might be taken out of my hands.

Since having the lesson with the biomechanics orientated instructor on Thursday who pointed out I was sat to the right,  I am checking and constantly readjusting to sit level.  Now I have hip and knee niggles.  If those don't stop,  then I just can't sit level on her. I have checked her over carefully today and I can see atrophy on the right hand side of her back under the saddle.  Clearly,  if I can't sit level without pain and she is damaged by it,  then the option to keep her is out the window, for her own sake.

I spent 25 years effort and stress and thousands of pounds  changing saddles to fit horses.  15 years ago I found WOWs, which I absolutely rate for their flexible twist and adjustability. Because of how freely horses usually move in them,  I swore i would never put another horse in a fixed tree. Changing saddles is not an option I want to consider. I don't believe it would help with this problem if I did.

For the next month I'll be concentrating on sitting straight and monitoring her back and my pain levels.  Then I'll take stock of where we are at.
		
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Surely, if she slims down then that should also solve your "too wide" problem also? The majority of my Spanish horses have been quite wide (I go for the old fashioned type), and I have only recently - in the last year or so - started to get twinges in my hips (old age in my case, I think: never had a problem til I hit 60).


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## palo1 (25 October 2020)

ycbm said:



			Thank you for trying to help,  but paragraph 3 answers that question.
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I completely get your reasoning - you have a tried and tested way BUT tbh you are closing off ways of potentially solving a problem and WOW saddles cannot possibly suit every horse. If they did, that is probably all the market would offer (and similar cheaper versions too).  I have gone from a really narrow horse to a really wide Welsh D and worried that I might struggle but thankfully my saddle fitter was able to find something that works well and I haven't really even noticed the hopping from pretty narrow to super wide.  If it really is too difficult for you to resolve though, you may have to sell the horse. 

ETA - I just wondered if you had thought of riding her in something like a Christ Lamfelle bareback sheepskin to see how that works for you.  It would help you to see if the muscle atrophy was rider or saddle derived.  I have done this and found it a bit of a revelation in the past tbh!


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## ycbm (25 October 2020)

Cortez said:



			Surely, if she slims down then that should also solve your "too wide" problem also? The majority of my Spanish horses have been quite wide (I go for the old fashioned type), and I have only recently - in the last year or so - started to get twinges in my hips (old age in my case, I think: never had a problem til I hit 60).
		
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That's what the month is to find out.  I have had doubts about her width since I first started to ride her.  I'm 62, I first noticed a problem with wider horses at 59.
.


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## ycbm (25 October 2020)

Guys,  really,  I will change the horse before I go back on the merry go round of eternal saddle refitting that I can't do myself. I won't put a horse in a fixed tree,  and I don't like treeless. 

I know it sounds odd to some people but changing horses is fine by me,  I've been doing it for over 40 years.

I know you are trying to be helpful,  and I'm grateful for that,  but it isn't helpful to have to keep repeating myself to answer your suggestions.  

My plan is as I said above,  ride straight for a month and take stock of her back and my pain levels then. We had a lovely hack this morning but both my hips are now twinging in a way they haven't done  since I sold my cob.


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## Steerpike (25 October 2020)

That's actually quite sad to read that you have been changing horses for 40 years


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## ycbm (25 October 2020)

Steerpike said:



			That's actually quite sad to read that you have been changing horses for 40 years
		
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I think you'll find anyone who has owned multiple horses at a time for 40+ years will have done. 
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## Steerpike (25 October 2020)

I have owned multiple horses and have never had such rigid needs as yours, in my experience horses need some flexibility ie management styles, saddlery, feeds ect, as I said in an earlier post I have 10 Arabs and a TB, all are different in their management needs but I don't pass them on because of that.
Edited to add 30+years


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## Cortez (25 October 2020)

Steerpike said:



			I have owned multiple horses and have never had such rigid needs as yours, in my experience horses need some flexibility ie management styles, saddlery, feeds ect, as I said in an earlier post I have 10 Arabs and a TB, all are different in their management needs but I don't pass them on because of that.
Edited to add 30+years
		
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Well, people are all different and they do different things.


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## Steerpike (25 October 2020)

Yes I guess some are quick to move a horse on without trying


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## Upthecreek (25 October 2020)

There’s so many potential reasons a horse isn’t quite right for you but could be perfect for someone else. Selling on if this turns out to be the case is the best thing to do. Life is too short to keep a horse that is difficult to manage in your set up and causes you physical pain.


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## CanteringCarrot (25 October 2020)

I can see ones needs becoming more "rigid" especially as we get older. It'd be ideal to pick the perfect horse the first time, but we don't live in an ideal world.

I'm willing to do a lot to accommodate my horse, but I'm still relatively young, not so creaky, and energetic. I imagine this changing as I age! Life is too short to spend it with the wrong horse (or people, for that matter).


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## Cortez (25 October 2020)

Steerpike said:



			Yes I guess some are quick to move a horse on without trying
		
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Quite judgey......perhaps some people just have a better idea of what they want and what they are prepared to do to get it.


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## Steerpike (25 October 2020)

You could say judgy like you are judging me, I am only going by what has been written on here.


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## Chinchilla (25 October 2020)

Eh, it's your hobby, do it as you like, so long as the animal doesn't suffer.


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## ycbm (25 October 2020)

Steerpike said:



			I have owned multiple horses and have never had such rigid needs as yours, in my experience horses need some flexibility ie management styles, saddlery, feeds ect, as I said in an earlier post I have 10 Arabs and a TB, all are different in their management needs but I don't pass them on because of that.
Edited to add 30+years
		
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I am not arrogant enough to believe that only I can give a horse as good care as I can.  I see no issue with letting horses which don't match what I want to go someone whose life they will enhance.   I've sold two horses and a tiny pony in 6 years and each new owner has written saying they are their horse of a lifetime. 
.


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## Steerpike (25 October 2020)

I'm not arrogant to believe I am the only one that can give good care, maybe I am just lucky that I have got on/been able to manage all the horses that have been in my care, I actually enjoy figuring out their quirks. As yet I have not had to sell one of mine.


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## BBP (25 October 2020)

It does seem bonkers to me (in a cheerful way, not horrible way), but I’m sure it seems utterly bonkers to you that I would still have my little lunatic after all his challenges, and that I would give up my riding future in order to keep him as a pet. You don’t need to justify to us why you don’t want her anymore, what’s important is that you find her a good home, which I’m positive you will.


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## Caol Ila (25 October 2020)

If no one sold good horses, no one would ever be able to buy a good horse. I'm sure 99% of the people on this forum -- the ones who haven't bought youngstock or messy rehab projects -- have benefited from someone selling a horse that wasn't suiting them for one reason or another.


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## ycbm (25 October 2020)

BBP said:



			It does seem bonkers to me (in a cheerful way, not horrible way), but I’m sure it seems utterly bonkers to you that I would still have my little lunatic after all his challenges, and that I would give up my riding future in order to keep him as a pet. You don’t need to justify to us why you don’t want her anymore, what’s important is that you find her a good home, which I’m positive you will.
		
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Bonkers your horse is the luckiest boy alive,  I could not have done what you have done for him.  
.


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## paddy555 (25 October 2020)

ycbm said:



			Guys,  really,  I will change the horse before I go back on the merry go round of eternal saddle refitting that I can't do myself. I won't put a horse in a fixed tree,  and I don't like treeless.

I know it sounds odd to some people but changing horses is fine by me,  I've been doing it for over 40 years.

I know you are trying to be helpful,  and I'm grateful for that,  but it isn't helpful to have to keep repeating myself to answer your suggestions. 

My plan is as I said above,  ride straight for a month and take stock of her back and my pain levels then. We had a lovely hack this morning but both my hips are now twinging in a way they haven't done  since I sold my cob.
		
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you said somewhere that shorter is not how you want to ride. Nor presumably any different to how you ride now. It may be the case however that you have to, nothing to do with the horse but as you get older it may be necesary to accommodate your changing body shape, muscle strength and all the other horrible things that happen to us as we get older.


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## paddy555 (25 October 2020)

BBP said:



			It does seem bonkers to me (i cheerful way, not horrible way), but I’m sure it seems utterly bonkers to you that I would still have my little lunatic after all his challenges, and that I would give up my riding future in order to keep him as a pet. .
		
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to me that just seems normal.  I have done  that with every horse I have ever had. Some easy, some not but every single horse required me to adapt to it not the other way round and to find my way around managing and riding it. 

I don't think age makes you more rigid in your methods. In fact it does give you a bit more wisdom as to what might work better.  It is still a case of working around that particular horse's peculiarities.


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## ycbm (25 October 2020)

paddy555 said:



			you said somewhere that shorter is not how you want to ride. Nor presumably any different to how you ride now. It may be the case however that you have to, nothing to do with the horse but as you get older it may be necesary to accommodate your changing body shape, muscle strength and all the other horrible things that happen to us as we get older. 

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It's nowhere near happening on Ludo, Paddy, I've just gone longer on him. I'm in the use it or lose it camp at the moment  

I already ride Deza shorter than him by a fair margin to allow for her rounder barrel. . 
.


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## ycbm (25 October 2020)

paddy555 said:



			to me that just seems normal.  I have done  that with every horse I have ever had. Some easy, some not but every single horse required me to adapt to it not the other way round and to find my way around managing and riding it.

I don't think age makes you more rigid in your methods. In fact it does give you a bit more wisdom as to what might work better.  It is still a case of working around that particular horse's peculiarities.
		
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I was mostly referring to the amount of money BBP has had to spend and the emotional energy she has had to put in to the diagnostics, not the way she keeps him.


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## paddy555 (25 October 2020)

ycbm said:



			. I'm in the use it or lose it camp at the moment  


.
		
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aren't we all


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## paddy555 (25 October 2020)

ycbm said:



			I was mostly referring to the amount of money BBP has had to spend and the emotional energy she has had to put in to the diagnostics, not the way she keeps him.
		
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so was I. The keeping them is the easy part. The money far more horrendous, and as for the worry, well it can go off the scale


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## BBP (25 October 2020)

The emotional energy of him and the special dog is definitely exhausting. Today I feel really affected by it, pretty stressed and sad. I’m facing another 15 years of the same challenges with each, by which point I probably won’t get another horse or dog. I can understand why not everyone wants to go that route.


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## Lammy (25 October 2020)

Only mentioning this in case it’s not been tried. If you have a girth with elastic on one side, try putting the elastic side on the side you find you tilt. So if you tilt to the right put the elastic end of the girth on the right too or vice versa. I don’t know the exact mechanics of it but it completely sorted my saddle tilt issue. It was only slight but I feel much more in balance now. Saddle fitter did say it was something about the balance of the saddle and girth together...and I’m glad I didn’t just buy the fandangled girth the first saddle fitter tried to get me to buy 😳


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## Roxylola (25 October 2020)

ycbm said:



			Feeding is going well,  pulses are clear,   and looks like we definitely have some weight loss going on,  hips are emerging, but whether she stays or goes might be taken out of my hands. 

Since having the lesson with the biomechanics orientated instructor on Thursday who pointed out I was sat to the right,  I am checking and constantly readjusting to sit level.  Now I have hip and knee niggles.  .  
For the next month I'll be concentrating on sitting straight and monitoring her back and my pain levels.  Then I'll take stock of where we are at.
		
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Your biomechanics instructor runs online equipilates sessions - via Facebook for sure which I think you've said you dont do, but I'm sure she might be able to find a way round it. I've found them massively useful for my wideness induced wonk


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## planete (25 October 2020)

Lammy said:



			Only mentioning this in case it’s not been tried. If you have a girth with elastic on one side, try putting the elastic side on the side you find you tilt. So if you tilt to the right put the elastic end of the girth on the right too or vice versa. I don’t know the exact mechanics of it but it completely sorted my saddle tilt issue. It was only slight but I feel much more in balance now. Saddle fitter did say it was something about the balance of the saddle and girth together...and I’m glad I didn’t just buy the fandangled girth the first saddle fitter tried to get me to buy 😳
		
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That is interesting and reinforces my belief that girths with elastic on one side can unbalance a saddle.  I would personally only buy a girth with both sides or the middle elasticated but not just one side. Sorry for the digression, I am at the moment trying to find a saddle comfortable for both myself and extra wide coblet so have every sympathy for ycbm's dilemna.


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## ycbm (25 October 2020)

I never use one sided elastic girths.


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## Trouper (26 October 2020)

At 70++ and also with narrow hips, I sympathise with your problem. I, too, find it more comfortable to ride long.  Apart from hip comfort I find it more secure as the muscle strength in my legs has faded.   My pilates instructor (also a rider) advised exercises with an exercise ring to strengthen inner thighs but also to do stretches to keep tissue lengthened and flexible.   I am sure you probably do these already but just a thought.
Riding "differently" is bound to throw up some twinges to start with so it is good to have a test period but the whole horse/saddle combination has so many permutations that it like 3-dimensional chess to sort out a solution.  I am frequently told that I should ride a nice, safe, steady cob - I could, but I would be crippled.   What suits my hips is a TB.  
I hope you make some progress soon.


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## ycbm (26 October 2020)

Trouper said:



			At 70++ and also with narrow hips, I sympathise with your problem. I, too, find it more comfortable to ride long.  Apart from hip comfort I find it more secure as the muscle strength in my legs has faded.   My pilates instructor (also a rider) advised exercises with an exercise ring to strengthen inner thighs but also to do stretches to keep tissue lengthened and flexible.   I am sure you probably do these already but just a thought.
Riding "differently" is bound to throw up some twinges to start with so it is good to have a test period but the whole horse/saddle combination has so many permutations that it like 3-dimensional chess to sort out a solution.  I am frequently told that I should ride a nice, safe, steady cob - I could, but I would be crippled.   What suits my hips is a TB.  
I hope you make some progress soon.
		
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Thank you for that Trouper. We sound as if we are in the same boat.  

I do pilates and flow yoga,  and I'm also mildly hypermobile. I could still do my party trick of putting my leg behind my head if I felt like practising it these days  🤣


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## ycbm (26 October 2020)

We have definite progress on weight loss on the big bale haylage/ straw combination.  Hips are hoving in to view,  hopefully to be followed by at least some of the last ribs but that may take a while. 
.


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## Steerpike (26 October 2020)

ycbm said:



			Thank you for that Trouper. We sound as if we are in the same boat. 

I do pilates and flow yoga,  and I'm also mildly hypermobile. I could still do my party trick of putting my leg behind my head if I felt like it these days 🤣
		
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Can I swap even when I was a kid I struggled to get my foot in the stirrup from the ground, my hips are ridiculously stiff even with plates!


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## Asha (26 October 2020)

ycbm said:



			We have definite progress on weight loss on the big bale haylage/ straw combination.  Hips are hoving in to view,  hopefully to be followed by at least some of the last ribs but that may take a while.
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Crikey, thats some turnaround in a few days, perhaps you could come up with a diet for me that would work that quick. Be nice to see my hip bones again

Glad its progessing well.


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## SatansLittleHelper (26 October 2020)

Whatever diet you have her on I want it..!!!! For me and fat boy cob..!!!! 😱😱😱😱


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## paddy555 (26 October 2020)

ycbm said:



			I could still do my party trick of putting my leg behind my head if I felt like practising it these days  🤣
		
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photo?????


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## Cortez (26 October 2020)

ycbm said:



			Thank you for that Trouper. We sound as if we are in the same boat. 

I do pilates and flow yoga,  and I'm also mildly hypermobile. I could still do my party trick of putting my leg behind my head if I felt like practising it these days  🤣
		
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I'd pay money to see that......


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## Mule (26 October 2020)

Asha said:



			Crikey, thats some turnaround in a few days, perhaps you could come up with a diet for me that would work that quick. Be nice to see my hip bones again

Glad its progessing well.
		
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Tell me about it


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## Mule (26 October 2020)

I don't have any hip pain but I also find the narrower type of horse more comfortable. When the beast was off work I was mostly riding an 18 hand tank and the beast was so comfortable when i got back on him.


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## ycbm (26 October 2020)

SatansLittleHelper said:



			Whatever diet you have her on I want it..!!!! For me and fat boy cob..!!!! 😱😱😱😱
		
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It's called trotting up 1 in 5 Hills SLH 🤣


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## SatansLittleHelper (26 October 2020)

ycbm said:



			It's called trotting up 1 in 5 Hills SLH 🤣
		
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Thanks. I'll stay fat 😳


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## Gloi (26 October 2020)

ycbm said:



			It's called trotting up 1 in 5 Hills SLH 🤣
		
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The 1 in 5 hill keeps my pony's figure too. 😄 . I try to avoid trotting anywhere though, too much like hard work.


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## ycbm (1 November 2020)

Definitely losing weight   Dates at top.


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## ycbm (1 November 2020)

I reckon she has lost at least an inch off the girth, which I think translates to a reduction of about half an inch,  a quarter each side,  off the distance that my knees are apart.

Today I was very aware of feeling as if I was sat twisted left.  But I was sat straight. When I was twisted right by her width, that had been feeling straight, so now sitting straight feels twisted left.  I found it very easy to sit straight today. Although half an inch doesn't sound much,  if it's the last half inch that broke the camel's back,  then it's everything.

On the bad side,  she knocked the fence down last night and it's now braced with various stuff,  including a wheelbarrow!, until I can buy more hurdles tomorrow and create a firmer fixing to the wall.  OH spent a lot of time this afternoon fixing one end tight,  but I do need to be able to open it to get her in there


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## SatansLittleHelper (1 November 2020)

Sooooo will she stay or will she go..?! 🤔🤔

She does seem to have lost weight,  what have you changed.??


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## ycbm (1 November 2020)

I finished a load of rich small bale haylage that I was soaking to get the sugar out (and the water was really sweet!)  and moved to 5kg a day of dry stemmy but quality big bale haylage that I'm not soaking,  and as much barley straw as she will eat. She is muzzled when out at grass.  Has a bib and belly clip and no rug and is trotting up more hills.

I don't know if she will stay,  the thought of battling with her weight all next summer feels very depressing. I dont like seeing the barn split and Ludo kept  separated,  either. She can definitely stay til spring if nobody makes me a silly offer for her.  

I can feel her last three ribs if I press hard enough now.  Once I can feel the main ones fairly easily, like Ludo's, she can have more haylage. 
.


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## ycbm (13 November 2020)

Update.

We now have ribs within fingertip reach on her main body of ribs under the saddle area.  So she has reached a weight I would be just about satisfied with all year round.  We've had a problem with pulses again,  but it was related to opening a new bale of haylage and as soon as I started to soak it they have gone again.  

Current diet is 5kg of ryegrass haylage (its what I've got, next year I will buy Timothy) ,  soaked and as much barley straw as she will eat,  which is about another 2-3kg.  She still muzzled for her 6-9 hours grazing,  which she seems totally unconcerned about when I put it on.  It bothers me,  but not her, seemingly. 

I am now sitting straight again and her back is muscling up.

Tomorrow she gets promoted to a thin rug. I'm telling myself that it's for her but in reality it's so I don't have to scrape off the mud 😁.  Next week I'm going to test no muzzle,  but it's no big deal if that doesn't work and she has to stay in one.  

I'm much happier with her,  she's working beautifully and she can certainly stay for the winter.
.


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## CanteringCarrot (13 November 2020)

Lovely update! So happy for you and her. Glad you found a plan/diet that works!


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## Michen (13 November 2020)

ycbm said:



			Update.

We now have ribs within fingertip reach on her main body of ribs under the saddle area.  So she has reached a weight I would be just about satisfied with all year round.  We've had a problem with pulses again,  but it was related to opening a new bale of haylage and as soon as I started to soak it they have gone again. 

Current diet is 5kg of ryegrass haylage (its what I've got, next year I will buy Timothy) ,  soaked and as much barley straw as she will eat,  which is about another 2-3kg.  She still muzzled for her 6-9 hours grazing,  which she seems totally unconcerned about when I put it on.  It bothers me,  but not her, seemingly.

I am now sitting straight again and her back is muscling up.

Tomorrow she gets promoted to a thin rug. I'm telling myself that it's for her but in reality it's so I don't have to scrape off the mud 😁.  Next week I'm going to test no muzzle,  but it's no big deal if that doesn't work and she has to stay in one. 

I'm much happier with her,  she's working beautifully and she can certainly stay for the winter.
.
		
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That’s great but still doesn’t sound like a horse you really want to keep 

If you do sell her she’s had a great proper start with you.


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## GinaGeo (13 November 2020)

It sounds like you’re heading in the right direction, pleased to hear you’re getting her management sussed 😊

Good doers are hard to manage. Give me a TB I can chuck food down any day!


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## ycbm (13 November 2020)

Michen said:



			That’s great but still doesn’t sound like a horse you really want to keep 

If you do sell her she’s had a great proper start with you.
		
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The jury is certainly still out M, much like you and Bear, which I totally get.  She hasn't grabbed a place in my heart and if someone was to make me a big enough offer for her I would part with her with a clear conscience.   Though I'm also  relieved to feel that there is no need to change anything now until the spring.  
.


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## ycbm (13 November 2020)

GinaGeo said:



			It sounds like you’re heading in the right direction, pleased to hear you’re getting her management sussed 😊

Good doers are hard to manage. Give me a TB I can chuck food down any day!
		
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Give me Ludo and I'll pay twice what it's worth 🤣

A good doer,  who stops eating when he's had enough.  Who wouldn't pay extra for that?


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## GinaGeo (13 November 2020)

ycbm said:



			Give me Ludo and I'll pay twice what it's worth 🤣

A good doer,  who stops eating when he's had enough.  Who wouldn't pay extra for that?
		
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To be fair that’s my WelshxTb and Anglo Arab. They don’t need feeding up but they don’t gorge. I agree that’s perfect!

The Connemara however never comes up for air 🙈


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## ycbm (13 November 2020)

GinaGeo said:



			The Connemara however never comes up for air 🙈
		
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You were saying? 🤣


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## GinaGeo (13 November 2020)

ycbm said:



			You were saying? 🤣

View attachment 58932

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Looks familiar 🙈


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## Michen (13 November 2020)

ycbm said:



			The jury is certainly still out M, much like you and Bear, which I totally get.  She hasn't grabbed a place in my heart and if someone was to make me a big enough offer for her I would part with her with a clear conscience.   Though I'm also  relieved to feel that there is no need to change anything now until the spring. 
.
		
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Oh Bear has totally grabbed my heart really, I love the furry twit.

That said if he’s anything other than a straight forward, confidence giving jumper when the time comes for him to learn- he will lose his place quite quickly  so I guess it’s not true love.

She may surprise you over time but if not you got your Spanish fix and there will be another out there.


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## Caol Ila (13 November 2020)

I would love an easy keeper that will eat anything you throw at it. Gypsum has decided the only thing she fancies is oats and competition mix, like an old lady who's decided all she wants is fish and chips and MacDonald's. And she's 27 and not an easy keeper, so I have to give her anything she will actually eat.


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## ycbm (20 November 2020)

Things are nicely settled here but I'm fed up with cold wet forage and dreading ice!  So I've ordered Timothy haylage,  which should be here soon, and I'm going to try to swap her to that. 

I've been able to drop my stirrups a hole to where I would normally ride.  I always start a youngster with them shorter but when she got fat I couldn't drop them.  The weight loss has made riding her a lot easier. 

And this week I had a lesson with the instructor I go to with Ludo.  She isn't a Spanish horse lover,  but we had a real fun time.  We have decided that Deza isn't going to settle to doing long and low 20m circles and she should get stuck straight in to more advanced work. We even did some half pass, counter canter and pre-piaffe tiny trot.   She's going to find flying changes and piaffe a piece of cake.  I did some more of it at home today and I have to say I did enjoy myself - a lot! 
.


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## Barlow (20 November 2020)

ycbm said:



			And this week I had a lesson with the instructor I go to with Ludo.  She isn't a Spanish horse lover,  but we had a real fun time.  We have decided that Deza isn't going to settle to doing long and low 20m circles and she should get stuck straight in to more advanced work. We even did some half pass, counter canter and pre-piaffe tiny trot.   She's going to find flying changes and piaffe a piece of cake.  I did some more of it at home today and I have to say I did enjoy myself - a lot!
.
		
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this is what I do with mine - he just isn’t suited to the long and low stuff at the start of a session. We warm up with lots of lateral work and then take it up a gear then I ask for some stretching. They aren’t built for long and low so it’s quite hard work for them! Then at the end of the session we play with the piaffe as a reward. So pleased you are getting on better with managing her!


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## Cortez (20 November 2020)

ycbm said:



			Things are nicely settled here but I'm fed up with cold wet forage and dreading ice!  So I've ordered Timothy haylage,  which should be here soon, and I'm going to try to swap her to that.

I've been able to drop my stirrups a hole to where I would normally ride.  I always start a youngster with them shorter but when she got fat I couldn't drop them.  The weight loss has made riding her a lot easier.

And this week I had a lesson with the instructor I go to with Ludo.  She isn't a Spanish horse lover,  but we had a real fun time.  We have decided that Deza isn't going to settle to doing long and low 20m circles and she should get stuck straight in to more advanced work. We even did some half pass, counter canter and pre-piaffe tiny trot.   She's going to find flying changes and piaffe a piece of cake.  I did some more of it at home today and I have to say I did enjoy myself - a lot!
.
		
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I may have mentioned the "don't bother trying to make them go long & low" thing....they're not happy doing the opposite of what they are bred to do, which is collect & sit.


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## ycbm (21 November 2020)

Cortez said:



			I may have mentioned the "don't bother trying to make them go long & low" thing....they're not happy doing the opposite of what they are bred to do, which is collect & sit.
		
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I was just waiting for a tiny bit of balance and a little bit less rocket fuelled sewing machine before I asked for half pass and counter canter  🤣


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## Errin Paddywack (21 November 2020)

It must be fascinating to have two such opposite types of horse to ride.


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## ycbm (21 November 2020)

Errin Paddywack said:



			It must be fascinating to have two such opposite types of horse to ride.
		
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It is!  I bought her to have a new experience,  and if she stays it will be the reason that I keep her.

Schooling both in one day is a real laugh.  I have to unload one operating system and load another before I get on. 

They're chalk and cheese to hack, too. On the arena he never bats an eyelid at anything and she has only recently stopped spooking at some jump stands.  Out hacking,  he is eyes on stalks assessing danger all the time and she is quite calm,  especially for a horse who's not been under saddle for many months yet.

I couldn't ask for a better unmatched pair 
.


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## tristar (21 November 2020)

i find that, different sets of riding required, i do think however its very  good for your riding and training skills, opened up a whole new world of how to approach different horses for me, am now riding pre type, arab type, thoroughbred and for the first time cob, god me on a cob? must be getting ready for old age, 

its taught me  how to listen and connect with the horse i am sitting on, not getting on and being too set in what i intend to do and how i intend to do it, its a very happy feeling 

look forwards to more updates


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## ycbm (30 November 2020)

Well we (trainer and me)  decided to challenge her instead of waiting for her to establish her own balance and 12 days (4 sessions)  later I have shoulder in and travers in walk and trot, half pass in walk and a good attempt in trot,   shoulder in in canter,  counter canter, (flying changes are going to be a cinch), and a working-towards-piaffe trot which is 3 strides to the meter (13 inches to the stride) , and she's stopped rushing. 

This is fun 

She knows before I do if I'm having a tense day and she's very reactive to my seat on any day,  but that's making a better rider of me. 

Weight wise,  I can't believe how much narrower she is now the weight is off,  I had no idea she was carrying so much.  She's obviously an apple shaped girl who carries it round her middle..  

Keep your fingers crossed for me for tomorrow and the next few days.  Tonight is her first night on all-timothy haylage which hasn't been soaked. If she can get through without pulses for 48 hours then it will mean a blissful winter of no soaking. That would be my best Christmas present


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## Jeni the dragon (30 November 2020)

Fingers firmly crossed!


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## thefarsideofthefield (30 November 2020)

ycbm said:



			I have shoulder in and travers in walk and trot, half pass in walk and a good attempt in trot,   shoulder in in canter,  counter canter, (flying changes are going to be a cinch), and a working-towards-piaffe trot which is 3 strides to the meter (13 inches to the stride)
		
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  Yeah - but what do you do after you've warmed up ?


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## ycbm (30 November 2020)

thefarsideofthefield said:



			Yeah - but what do you do after you've warmed up ?
		
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Get off.

And I'm not joking, she doesn't  "do" a simple warm up,  she just finds it frustrating! 
.


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## GinaGeo (1 December 2020)

She sounds an awful lot of fun! 

When I next have a space in the stables and don't want to fill it with an eventer sort, I would secretly quite like to fill it with a PRE. For now I will live vicariously!


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## ycbm (1 December 2020)

Be careful what you wish for 🤣


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## tristar (1 December 2020)

i want her


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## CanteringCarrot (1 December 2020)

My PRE has forced me encouraged me to be a much better rider. Even though I got him as a green bean almost 3 years ago now, he has taught me so much. He's a sensitive creature, which I quite like, but I really have to ride with my brain and body.

I thought flying changes would be easy with this one since counter-canter was learned in one lesson and his transitions have always been good, but lets just say there is a lot of "flying" to our changes  but you'll probably fair better given that although mine is not a mare he is a total drama queen. 

Really hoping the best for you with the timothy haylage! I think I will be soaking all winter. Dreading it.

Also, feel free to insert some pics of the lovely lady too  

Glad to hear things are going well!


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## Cortez (1 December 2020)

I think perhaps *now* you understand all my "Spanish horses aren't for everyone" posts?

They absolutely will make better riders of their owners, and if that's not going to happen with some owners they can turn into a nightmare - for both horse and rider. I had to completely revise/improve my riding and training after I discovered the wonderful world of the PRE, a condition which is ongoing. I hope you enjoy the journey...


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## ycbm (1 December 2020)

Cortez said:



			I think perhaps *now* you understand all my "Spanish horses aren't for everyone" posts?

They absolutely will make better riders of their owners, and if that's not going to happen with some owners they can turn into a nightmare - for both horse and rider. I had to completely revise/improve my riding and training after I discovered the wonderful world of the PRE, a condition which is ongoing. I hope you enjoy the journey...

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🤣✔


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## SaddlePsych'D (1 December 2020)

Sounds like a more positive update and things moving in the right direction with her. Looking forward to hearing more of how the PRE experience is going (and some pics?)


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## tristar (1 December 2020)

yes, loadzza pics please


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## planete (1 December 2020)

Great update.  I also had bit of a learning curve when I bought my two year old Lipi cross. I thought I could break horses and ride anything...

Best of luck with the hay.  I feel your pain, soaking 12 kg every 24 hours right now with no end in sight.

PS. twenty years later and I still have this horse.


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## ycbm (2 December 2020)

No pulse after 48 hours of dry timothy.  Yay!  So today she got half a day grazing without the muzzle on and see what that does.  It really looks likely I can go without soaking now, she would normally react the next day and it's been two. That's made my Christmas!  If she can go without a muzzle until spring that would probably make hers 

She's lost two whole inches off her girth and when she bends I'm getting a hint of ribs visible in her main ribcage area.  So although she's a wee bit tricky to feed,  needing low fat haylage and then straw to pick at when the haylage is gone,  she does lose weight very easily without being ridden that much.  My fears that she was going to be very difficult to manage have pretty much been settled.

Had a great lesson today with my trainer who doesn't even like Spanish horses 🤣  She said "she's growing on me", after she saw how improved she was in after just 2 weeks,  which is praise indeed.  My trainer is very prepared to be unconventional when it suits the horse,  and the key to this horse is that she cannot engage her body until after you have engaged her brain.  No amount of slow steady work will do that,  it just frustrates the hell out of her. So we had a lesson full of shoulder in,  travers,  half pass,  counter canter and then played with a flying change,  which she got at the front and late behind, having never been asked to do it before.  Such fun!


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## ycbm (2 December 2020)

A nice settled trot shoulder in. 





A slightly enthusiastic counter canter   My leg is back to keep her bent left to stop her changing lead.







Travers in trot


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## thefarsideofthefield (2 December 2020)

Eees Easy Peasy ! Whas next Seniora ?


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## J&S (2 December 2020)

I love that trot photo,  such a nice shape.


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## Chinchilla (2 December 2020)

Oh wow, the energy she exudes in that counter canter photo! She sounds glorious!


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## Chinchilla (2 December 2020)

I like the purple saddle pad too 😊, that colour suits her


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## ycbm (15 December 2020)

We seem to have reached a really good equilibrium.   She is on
3.5kg timothy 3.5kg ryegrass, no soaking,  and picks at barley straw when that's gone. No grazing muzzle either.

Ludo meanwhile had made it clear that he really,  really wants some of her straw.  So he gets ad lib ryegrass and a pack of straw and 3kg of grass nuts.  I was unhappy with his weight for this time of year, not thin but too close for comfort. But his girth tells me he's put some on since getting straw.  I'm always amazed how they know what they need if you let them tell you.

The bonus is that she will eat the ryegrass he turns up his nose at and he will eat the straw she won't finish 


And my grin when I ride them at the moment splits my face in two.  I am stopping her giving me full pass trot and canter when I want half pass (we compromise on ¾)  and his work is improving all the time and today his canter to walk was like I pressed a "freeze" button with my seat and he dropped out of the canter suspension and walked.  Awesome pair!

Last week when I was at my trainer with Ludo she said 'your riding has improved since you started training with Deza'  and she was right,  I'm sitting much more round him than I was.  Part of that is that he is now allowing me to,  but most of it is that you can't ride her any way but from your seat,  and it transfers to him.

Fingers crossed we are all settled for the rest of the winter 🤞


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