# Kissing spine, what should i do?



## annar (31 December 2010)

My horse that ive had only 3 months has suddenly been diagnosed with KS, its a masssive shock as hes never shown any probs until he had a bit of time off riding due to the snow over last few weeks. ive ridden him nearly daily up until that and he was a dream, hes an ex racehorse who was working well in all 3 paces in the school, no probs with transitions and he was starting to work much lower and to the bit. after about 3-4 weeks off due to frozen school and roads and thick snow i finally got back on and he was a diff horse, grinding his teeth, head fixed to one side and then all of a sudden buck buck. i got a vet immediatly and he queried an ulcer as he was also girthy and shy of been groomed, the scope was near perfect so whilst at the vets they checked him over and found his back tender which has never been before so they xrayed and bam, KS, im devestated, he was bought as my other horse is now only a light hack after a fractured pelvis from falling and i was planning on bringing the new boy up to jumping, dressage and a bit of xc and pleasure rides. The vet has injected his back and asked me to work him as much as poss on the lunge in a pessoa building him up and will review in 4-6weeks. hes also mentioned surgery as a poss. what i wonder is, can exercise alone be enough to keep him fit and well enough to do what i want or will he eventually deteriorate to need surgery. my insurance is only for 12 months per condition so id rather get him sorted the best way now as i know we have months of work to recondition him either way. annax


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## quirky (31 December 2010)

Exercise can indeed keep a horse with KS comfortable.

If you think about it, if he is fat and saggy in his muscles, his spine will dip, causing the vertebrae to touch. If he is fit and muscled, he will carry himself more correctly and the spine will be straighter.
I would think if he hasn't shown clinical signs prior to an enforced lay off, he could well be ok when worked and muscled.

You have nothing to lose  by getting him fit, so that is the way to go .
Personally, I wouldn't operate but I know there are people on here who have and have rehabilitated successfully.


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## hellywelly1 (31 December 2010)

i had a 6yr old tb with kissing spine and the vet was 100% that it was caused by 2yrs off work as the previous owner was well just strange. we had the injections and did get a few really good rides out of her. in my view the op is a better option if they dont mind stable rest as the injections are hard to do. mine had 5 close and 3 of which were touching. we treated her for four months however the final lot of injections caught a never in my mares back and we had to pts which was the hardest thing i have ever been through in my life as she was more than my horse but my best friend. at the same time another friend had her horse treated for ks and he made a full recovery with the injections. 
The vets told my my mare would have lived if we had had the op however she hated being stabled and would kick walls and become really depressed. 

so in the end the injections were the best option for her. so i supose what im trying to say is the future isnt gone and you and your horse will hopefully have a brilliant future but if your horse can cope with the op and box rest and you can afford the op which ranges from2.5-5k depending on the vet this is the better option or so my vet told me. 
best of luck 
Helen 

RIP BOO you are still in my thoughts every day xx


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## Ginger Bear (31 December 2010)

One of ours has a kissing spine..another TB.. she has a kissing spine & the vet said that if she had the op she would nead every other vertebrae removed!! Instead she had the ultra sound treatment, injections & is lunged in a pessoa for 20 mins 3 times a week & has worked wonders... had the back lady out a few weeks ago & she couldn't believe the improvement..she said there was no tension in her back at all..


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## gunnergundog (31 December 2010)

Yep!  Had one years ago that evented to novice level with kissing spine.  Was always worked long and low at home, fed off the ground and we never took her swimmming.  Was fine - finally PTS six years after diagnosis due to a paddock accident, totally unrelated.


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## annar (31 December 2010)

Thankyou so much for your replies, theyve given me hope. i am so upset but worse things could happen and we have to deal with it and hope he comes through ok. i have so many dreams for us. x


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## Southywesty (31 December 2010)

It would prob be worth getting a physio in to help with any soft tissue needing attention and to help with rehab/core stability strengthening etc. It wont be cured but if managed correctly horse will have active life. Another treatment is mesotherapy which has had excellent results when managing KS.
As you say your horse hasnt worked for a while, the sudden change in him could be from a loss of muscle and strength or compensation leading to his back pain. When he was in work it could be that he was fit and managing to cope with the underlying condition. Since being out of work it just may have thrown him over the edge which has resulted in you finding out about his KS. I doubt wehther this is a fresh thing, just that it was under wraps before.


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## annar (31 December 2010)

thanks, thats just what the vet said, he said its classic of KS for it to show after some time off leading to muscle loss and inability to cope. My other lad has physio with vicky spalding so ive asked her to come see him too for support. ive heard of this mesotherapy will look into it, is it done by vets? annax


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## grazingbits (31 December 2010)

Hi

My thoroughbred cross was diagnosed with KS 18 months ago and my vet has advised me to continue to work him long and low and i work with a great physio who has managed to get my horse fit and back to fitness and we are now doing prelim dressage.  My boy hasn't had any surgery or injections just alot of hard work on either side and now he is great. As Long as he is wrapped up warm in the field and the stable he has no problems.  When he was first diagnosed the vet put him on bute twice a day for the rest of his life but since working with the physio and schooling long and low he is completly off the physio.  What area are you based?

steph


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## annar (31 December 2010)

im in sheffield, south yorkshire. annax


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## Southywesty (31 December 2010)

Vicky Spalding - perfect!


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## xxMozlarxx (2 January 2011)

annar said:



			Thankyou so much for your replies, theyve given me hope. i am so upset but worse things could happen and we have to deal with it and hope he comes through ok. i have so many dreams for us. x
		
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I can relate so much to what you are going through, i bought my beautiful kind boy at rising 5 as my other horse was ageing and wouldnt do everything I was wanting to. He showed no signs of any problems and sailed through the vetting. I dont agree that KS is necessarily a long standing problem in your horse, it depends on age and my boy had more developing to do, his KS has got worse as he has grown and as his spines have rubbed, but KS can develop at any age. His condition got worse the fitter he became. Like you I had such hopes and dreams and we were really progressing when his KS really kicked in. 
I opted for the surgery without any hesitation and we are curremtly rehabing, it is very difficult but what is the point of putting money and work into a condition that will not go away and may get worse. I am not knocking those who havent gone my route but for me there was no doubt. Having said that my boy had a very aggressive contact, it was not 'kissing' more 'punching'!!
Good luck with whatever you decide.


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## seabsicuit2 (3 January 2011)

Dont worry too much initially, just see if you can rebuild the muscles again and get his back strong again. If he was going so well and improving his way of going before the lay off, then there is a high chance that he will be OK again without injections/surgery.

Get the physio out and get her to do plenty of H wave, make sure your saddle is 100 % ( did he loose or put on weight after his time off? this would have changed the saddle fit ) get the teeth and feet checked ( short toes) and just get him working again with plenty of pessoa work, and long and low work, give it 6-8 weeks good quality work and then if not improving or getting worse, then start thinking about surgury/injections..

Remember a vast proportion of horses show kissing spine on their x rays ( as much as 80% ) but there are different degrees of bone remodelling, so some can work through it others cant. If you let them loose top line that is just a disaster as you cant expect them to work without muscle to support the back, but once youve got that muscle back, he may well be OK. So try as hard as pos to build him back up again ( lots of work and good feed/hay) and if no improvement then start looking for further vet advice..


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## annar (3 January 2011)

thanks SB. when i bought him he had his teeth, back and saddle sorted before i even got on board, i suppose thats why i feel so down as i tried to make sure we started on a good foot right from the start. he doesnt really have a topline due to been a racer so the time off would easily have been the cause to show it up. waiting for physio to book us in asap and come loosen him off poor lad, we tired pessoa yesterday, i lunged him normally first just to get some steam off and he worked with his head very low but as soon as pessoa went on he was tilting and fixing his head and grinding his teeth even on lowest setting poor lad so ill check with vet today re painkillers. annax


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## hellywelly1 (3 January 2011)

im in sheff too, which vet are you using??? minster was mine and they had a good physio on board as i had trouble getting vicky out however i have heard she is brill.

just keep your chin up and hopefully all will be ok. 
i did alot of research in to it and 80% of horses have it to some degree. even some top eventers are still out wonning after ks treatment


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## annar (3 January 2011)

hi im using hird and partners at halifax. they came very well recommended. thankfully i already use Vicky for my other lad so she will see both now. are you managing yours without surgery? annax


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## fastfilly (4 January 2011)

Phew I'm soo glad I've seen this post!!
My 7/8 TB showjumper has been basically configned to quarters for the last 5 weeks. He has a history of KS has I was gutted to see him crippled when we restarted ridden work. I'm not the only one with a wonky pony then! It is really terrible to see him like an old man when we were flying along before the snow.
He is on bute at the moment and i have schooling and lunging plans for when he is ready. I've bought an Armadillo magnetic rug at Christmas. has anyone elsed tried that?
Warming up in walk and canter NOT trot has really helped


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## Penny Less (4 January 2011)

Can  I just slightly hijack post here, my horse has extreme sway back, has always had this, not due to age. He had a problem when ridden that he would sometimes twist his neck so his head was horizontal.  He has always been girthy and very touchy about having rugs on. Vet has never mentioned KS but I am wondering now if this could be the problem. I have had his back xrayed in the past when he was in for a lameness workup as vet was fascinated by his shape, but we couldnt get a picture because of his shape? He isnt tender in his back when its pressed. 
Could it still be KS do you think?


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## hellywelly1 (5 January 2011)

annar said:



			hi im using hird and partners at halifax. they came very well recommended. thankfully i already use Vicky for my other lad so she will see both now. are you managing yours without surgery? annax
		
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im heart broken to say we lost her had to have her pts as she got a nerve caught in her bad with the injections and started falling over. we had no choice but to let her go! she is the pretty girl on my profile and we lost her on the 2nd of july after a four month battle. i just think we were unlucky and have seen many others cope well with the injections 

xx


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## annar (5 January 2011)

oh im so sorry HW. 
ive been looking at the armadillo rugs was watching one on ebay but it went over my budget. 
Alma some of those were symptoms china has, he fixes his neck on right rein and is now girthy and also hates been groomed over his flanks and around his belly, will actually trun to snap. hes not funny about rugs but can be a little cold backed with them. hes a big lad so i have no choice but to chuck them up. annax


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## Penny Less (5 January 2011)

Thanks annar, sounds a possibility then. He hasnt been ridden for over a year but had been considering a return to light work. If I cant get an xray then they wouldnt be able to inject either and wouldnt be able to find right place. Have to say though he was ridden for 6 years
with these symptoms and never tried to buck or rear or anything under saddle, so possibly not totally bad news for this condition.


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## Ivebeentangoed (5 January 2011)

I just want to say you are not alone in all this!!

My boy Tango had the KS op yesterday. He had impingements of T15/T16 and T16/T17. I have only owned him since the beginning of August this year and have probably ridden him for about 3 weeks in total.

Over the few months at first he was very fidgety when being tacked up, wouldnt stand still when mounting (initially I thought he was cold backed) I couldnt get canter from trot etc then ended up having bronching fits across the school even putting me in hospital. Eventually I thought enough was enough and took him to the vets where he was diagnosed.

He was given a cortisone injection initially and I was told to lunge in a pessoa for 4 weeks and have physio, which is what I did. In fact, I left it 5 weeks just to be sure. I also bought a magnetic rug, which he wore for half an hour every day and I was longreining. He only had 1 day off a week, I was very dedicated as I wanted it to work!

When I got back on he still felt exactly the same, just uncomfortable tenseness as if he was screaming at me 'get off it hurts!!' We had a little moment when I thought I was going to hit the deck again but he soon stopped so I dismounted.

At this point I knew the only way forward was surgery. I spoke to the vet who said the op is fairly simple as he only needs one dsp removing and it can be done under standing sedation as long as he could tolerate it.

He went to the vets on Monday evening and had the op yesterday, went to see him last night and he seemed very perky, vets called today to say that he is coping very well and theyre going to reduce his bute levels today.

I am very aware that the insurance company will only pay for his treatment for this for a year so wanted to get the op out of the way just incase he needs any other treatment down the line.

Sorry for the long essay!! But please do not feel panic, its not the end of the world.. PM me if you would like xxx


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## fastfilly (5 January 2011)

great to hear ur boy is doing so well Ivebeentangoed. Sounds like he is recovering really well. What brand of magnetic rug did you use? I  have the Armadillo on for 4 hours daily.


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## annar (5 January 2011)

thanks for that, see thats the odd thing, China was fine been ridden, walk trot and beautiful canter, never bucked although must say he felt like he would at times. nearly always struck canter on correct lead and odd occasion he didnt he righted himself. stood still to be mounted and also when mounted (odd for an ex racehorse i know) never girthy but was gripey been groomed. it was such a shock when he went beserk and i truly thought i was coming off, not a surprise really considering how painful it must be. im on day 4 of lunging in pessoa, hes still bracing himself quitre alot but is no longer grinding now hes on danilon. im having physio fri to try and loosen him up. annax


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## Ivebeentangoed (6 January 2011)

As one of the other members also said on here, 80% of horses suffer from ms, most of the time it goes undetected, it can just take something simple like muscular change to all of a sudden start to affect them. 
Tango passed a 5 stage vetting the week before he came to me plus I had been up there to try him out numerous times, hacking jumping and shoolig and apart from being a bit fidgety when I mounted showed no signs of anything other than a little impatience.
In my opinion and after doing LOTS of research on this the only way to telly solve this issue is to remove the conflicting dsp. Yes lots of horses cope well having cortisone injections etc but I think, and this is just my opinion, that this is just masking the problem. 
The injections can work for a week or a year but the one in between treatments gets shorter and shorter as the effect wears off sooner. I had 2 physios out to see tango, one before he was diagnosed, she said he had a dropped pelvis and was tight in a few areas. The next one was after he was diagnosed, we said the ks isn't a problem and I'll be back on in a week, they we'd both totally wrong I their diagnosis. 
You are the only one that knows your horse best so you need to weigh up all the pros and cons and make a decision based on that.


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## debby1 (6 January 2011)

Instead of a 'massage' rug I used my own boots tens on my horse, with the physio's advice to get the right settings, and that helped him alot and kept him a lot more supple & he didn't object to it & would doze off when it was in use


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## annar (6 January 2011)

just one question, china was injected a week ago and hes still very sore on his back, hes having to have painkillers and swishes his tail alot if i go near his rear end, should he not be feelig more comfortable by now? annax


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## Ivebeentangoed (6 January 2011)

annar said:



			just one question, china was injected a week ago and hes still very sore on his back, hes having to have painkillers and swishes his tail alot if i go near his rear end, should he not be feelig more comfortable by now? annax
		
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I would have thought that after a week he would have been feeling a little better, if not from the injection then from the painkillers?

Tango was on bute for a week after his injection, the only day he showed any improvement was the day he left the vets after being diagnosed, he galloped round all day in the field, bucking etc, seemed really happy, it was really lovely to see! But I put this down to the local anaesthetic when they nerve blocked him. Did they nerve block China?

You have to remember that the injection can be completely hit and miss, some horses only need one, but for others like mine it has no effect at all.

xx


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## annar (7 January 2011)

he was boxed for 2 days after injection just to watch for a reaction but he went crackers out in field on first day out. hes alot better on painkillers but he just keeps doing this strange looking at his bum occassionally like hes looking for something sticking a pin in or something. hes stopped grinding his teeth on pessoa so thats an improvement. we will see what physio makes of him today, perhaps the pessoa is making him uncomfortable. im sure theres a muscle spasm that needs releasing, ill update tonight on physio visit. annax


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## annar (7 January 2011)

physio has been today and was quite surprised how mobile he was considering his back pain so it quite positive we can help him. he lunged well and turning on tight circles in very good. hes had his back treated and ive been given loads of exercises to do. we are also investing in the back massager. she thinks he will benefit from water treadmill therapy to get his topline as typical ex racer style he has a razor back spine. im going to modify his diet to help as much as i can and have to start lunging again tomorrow. fingers crossed its good news for China pot. annax


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## foxy1 (11 January 2011)

Hi I've been following your story with interest; how are things going?


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## Puffin (11 January 2011)

Thankyou for bumping this foxy1 I've been looking for a thread like this, feel rather desperate and don't know what to do.

I've had my lad 18 months, and I bought him intending to bring on and either event him or sell him (finances being what they are), so i was gutted when he was diagnosed witH KS in November. His symptoms were very slight on the flat, occasionally he took an unlevel step behind or skruck off on the wrong canter. Over a jump however he cramped his back and threw his head up, he was very green and had been in a field for several months when I bought him so I initially put it down to that, but he didn't improve with training. He's a total sweetheart in the stable.

He has had cortisone injections into the spine and muscle relaxant into the back muscles, followed by shockwave treatements .  Thanks to the snow and ice I haven't been able to work him as much as i'd have liked, but have used the pessoa when I can and have restarted ridden work.

I've been wondering if I should put him through the op and rehab or just try to work the muscles up. I have the same issues as everyone else - will the treatemnet continue to work, what about money - the insurance timer is ticking etc.

Having read this, I think I owe it to the horse to make him as comfy as possible - the op will take away the pain permanently even if he's uncomfortable in the short term.

I will have to decide if I should keep him after that or find someone smaller and lighter. I blame myself a bit for pushing him too hard and letting myself get too heavy (He's full TB 16hh and I'm 11st (I've piled it on in the last yr)).

Would anyone here buy a horse who had had this op and was back in work?


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## annar (11 January 2011)

Chinas doing ok. we are religiously lunging first without (to warm up) and then with the pessoa every day and have got to 10mins either side on pessoa, hes gradually starting to relax on the lowest setting (has never had a hissy in it) and is working nicely in walk, still lifting head when going into trot, therfore im only doing short bursts of trot walk transitions. We have been told to add poles to the sessions after he is settled in walk and trot with his carriage. 

 ive changed his feed adding topspec cool cubes and balancer slowley over last 3 days and im hoping to see a diff soon. 

his belly is going and hes holding himself much more upright, belly held up so its def helping his posture, i have started taking piccies of him and will be videoing him fri when my pal comes to lunge him so i have a way of monitoring his progress. Hes still sore but is willing to work so it must be easing him. im not to ride for 6-8 weeks at least. ive also been given some good stretched by physio to try and stabilise his back more which hes learning very quickly and is very eager to please. 

Puffin, China is 17hh and im about 10.5 stone as im tall (5'10) so i dont think your to heavy, im certainly not fat, my other horse is 15.3 and i ride him after a fractured pelvis and physio says im fine for him. annax


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## Madmoo71 (12 January 2011)

Totally agree with that post about weight - your weight is not a problem honestly if he was smaller then maybe but a 16hh TB should be ok to take 12st - I got quite big with my first boy after I had my son and as long as I rode lightly in my seat and did not yahoo him around he was more than happyto take me and my additional weight - I just found myself a little ungainly as my point of balance changed.

I have just had the vet out to my 8 y./o IDX for xrays and they think he is likely to have KS and I am to have a Bone Scan - only bought him in oct and he passed a full vetting too - really disapointed as not the horse I bought now and never will be as will have to keep him epecially active and with a family I thought I had bought a chilled out groom, love and ride horse but this is now not the case - do not want to euthanise him as I think from the posts he can still lead a good life but it will not be with me do not have fascilities or experience for that - at the same time I will not be able to sell him and therefore have lost 4K and will have to start again to save up to buy something else - brain has exploded somewhat!!

anyway hope everyone on this post who has a KS problem works it out as it seems to be a very personal individual thing.


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## Ivebeentangoed (12 January 2011)

Madmoo I have pmd you back..

I did a lot of investigating when tango was diagnosed on all the various treatments.
The main thing regarding the steroid injection was that it is merely masking the problem, yes some horses go brilliantly after it but the effects do wear off, sometimes after a month, sometimes after 6 months, then you're left with a horse in pain again and back to square 1, yes you can have more injections but how long for before the effects wear off completely?
My opinion was that if the insurance company are going to pay then I am going for the op to remove the problem completely.
Yes it is a big decision and yes it is really hard work but you have to think about quality of life also. My horse became dangerous in the end so i had to think about my life too.
I don't doubt for one minute that I made the right decision by tango, but if we get to a year down the line then at least I can say I tried  xx


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## Southywesty (12 January 2011)

Ivebeentangoed said:



			Madmoo I have pmd you back..

I did a lot of investigating when tango was diagnosed on all the various treatments.
The main thing regarding the steroid injection was that it is merely masking the problem, yes some horses go brilliantly after it but the effects do wear off, sometimes after a month, sometimes after 6 months, then you're left with a horse in pain again and back to square 1, yes you can have more injections but how long for before the effects wear off completely?

Not necessarily - if you medicate back then work horse hard with a rehab programme (who should now be pain free or significantly less if you have medicated correctly) as ANNAR is doing then this will strengthen andominals, gluteals etc , strech over topline so horse will be physically stonger when the medication wears off. Hence should help the problem....
		
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## xxMozlarxx (12 January 2011)

That type of treatment will only work on a mild kiss, my horse had very aggressive contact in the process and no amount of top line building etc will lessen that. You are dependent on the muscles holding the process more separate and that won't happen where there is aggressive contact. Seeing my horses back finally swinging in his first days on the lunge is all the answer I need.


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## NOISYGIRL (13 January 2011)

My friends horse is an x race horse and we 've been in the same circumstances as you re the exercise with the snow, he's suddenly got what the vet suspects is KS so he's off to get xrays done, he fell outside his stable the other day like his back end wasn't working properly, he got up and fell on the other side, they've been in so much in the snow, maybe it contributed I don't know


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## HollyP (13 January 2011)

I agree with the fact injections are a short term solution. I operated after injections wasted 3 months of my time...if I hadnt done it within the the insurance year there is no way I could afford to do it.

Good luck! x


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## HollyP (13 January 2011)

Also like to add, all well and good building up the topline and it making the horse more comfortable but if the horse injures itself or has to have time off and that muscle disappears its a long struggle to get it back!! x


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## annar (13 January 2011)

i agree holly, this is my main concern. what if i have to have time off or cant ride, what if he has time off, what if snow comes bad and i cant work him every day. im buggered and worry im just holding back something that is never going to go. im going to discuss this on the 31st jan with vet. China looks better for the lunging but i dont see any evidence that hes anymore comfortable in his back as hes still grumpy grooming and tonight when i put massager on he was reluctant to let me do up the straps, he did though love the massage. annax


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## HollyP (14 January 2011)

I was soooooooo stressed making the decision but mainly because of insurance running out (plus they messed me around!) but did surgery, yes wasnt easy, she had mild colic after, allergic to antibiotics, wound reopened blah blah she was away in rehab so i was broke paying for that....but she is now wonderful and im glad I did it! did have to re-evalute my desperate need to ride as she just wasnt ready but atleast I know she isnt in pain anymore....must also add that she is 19 (was 16/17 when operated on) however thats what her passport says...dentist thinks in her 20s! so they are never to old!

Good luck, if I had to do it again I would!!

x


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## Ivebeentangoed (14 January 2011)

It is a very stressful decision to make yes, I had a 2 months of kissing spine decisions going round in my head, it can really do you in!! Especially when you dont know if the insurance will pay out!!

But, having said that, now he has had the operation I dont doubt that it was the right choice. Once they had opened him up one side of the dsp was so fused to the next one the vet had tourble finding where that one ended and the next one began! (They removed T16)

They do say that some KS horses are always in some sort of low grade pain even when not being ridden, I think this was the case for my boy, very slow walk and a real struggle to get him to trot in hand too.

Went to see him last night and he seems really happy, hes a big boy and I did worry that he wouldnt take the box rest very well but hes fine, had some of the stitches out yesterday and the wound is healing well, the rest will be out on Tuesday.

It would be nice if we could all keep in contact seeing as we are all in different stages of this.


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## Ivebeentangoed (14 January 2011)

HollyP- Can I ask how long it was between op and getting back on for the first time? I too have Tango at rehab and its crippling me so just wondering how long hes going to have to stay there for. Once he is at the ridden stage the livery goes up £40 a week!! xx


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## HollyP (14 January 2011)

I got back on about 4 months after op (we had a few weeks set back with her infection) but she hadnt really built enough topline, dont think she liked the pessoa....I moved her home after 6months (in whole) and did ALOT of ground work...god bless parelli....for all the negatives you hear gave me a chance to calm my horse down and regain a relationship with her she had lost a lot of confidence! but maybe a few months after that for her to relax the topline starting coming on (weather got better!) so I'd say be flexible maybe 8 months....we have had endless problems since but all unrelated!! She was older though and had lost a lot of weight (stress and pain) and muscle before we started. Its funny she looks like a small, 16hh, version of your boy!!


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## Ivebeentangoed (14 January 2011)

Hhhmm ok, Tango is only 9 so im wondering if it will be a bit easier when it comes to rebacking him.
I was thinking of getting a monty roberts type person out to him once we are ready to back him, I think a lot of the problem will be teaching him the pain is no longer there, but again its the money side of things that are going to be a struggle!!
xx


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## HollyP (14 January 2011)

Totally know what you mean about money   but one or two lessons might save you loads of stress...and you'll have an action plan to work on! Does your horse naturally hold topline? Next horse I buy will!!


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## annar (14 January 2011)

its an awful scenario and the nurse in me tells me that surgery is the only way to sort this. the pessoa is doing wonders shape wise. hes working really well and his withers etc are already building up. i do think its good to get a bit of topline going for him before we think about surgery as been an ex racer hes nothing, we need something to help before hand. 

he worked wonderful today after i used the equlibrium massager on him to warm him up, even on lowest setting. and hes starting to add a little weight with the new feed so all positive and hopefully will set him in good stead for whatever is to follow. 

Ive thought about rehab, did your horses go straight from surgery? China is a nightmare been boxed alone and my other horse has spavins so hes not to stay in so i have no companion for him. thats why i thought rehab may be good if they take staright away and they can dealw ith the speration issue as im sure there is always horses in. China will weave and stress when alone, he does settle eventually but i doubt this would be productive for a good recovery. Where have you sent your horses for rehab and what kind of price are you looking at? i am saving just incase. annax


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## Ivebeentangoed (14 January 2011)

That's good he's doing well on the Pessoa  it will all help to make him feel more comfortable.

I did a lot of research on rehab liveries, as I work full-time in London there is no way I could do it myself. I went to see quite a few places but i decided that he would be better off at a smaller yard as there wouldn't be too much going on that would stress him out while he's on box rest. 

I found a lady that was recommended to me by a friend, she takes on injured race horses and brings them back into work, she's also got a few babies that she is breaking for racing, she also used to run a hydrotherapy clinic at my vets so came highly recommended, I couldn't be happier with my choice and tango seems very happy there.

I did find that prices ranged quite a lot, one place even wanted £270 a week!!  I am currently paying £140 a week but that will go up to £180 once he is being rebacked. It's a lot of money but I felt that if I was going to put him through the op I wanted to give him the best chance afterwards.

What area are you in? Search convalescing livery on google I found loads through that.

Let me know how you are getting on xx


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## annar (14 January 2011)

thanks for that, im in sheffield, south yorkshire. Fingers crossed your lad continues to do well. This thread is so keeping me positive. If anyone wants to see how we are going im doing a step by step on my facebook pages with photos from start onwards. im on as anna matthews-revitt. annax


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## Ivebeentangoed (14 January 2011)

Brill Hun, will add you. I am on there too, probably more than I am on here!! I'm under abigail yearsley, profile pic is me on tango, our first and only dressage test! It definitely helps to talk to people who are going through the same thing, I'm in contact with quite a few people who are at different stages xx


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## RedVendetta (15 January 2011)

Just been reading your posts and thought I would try and reassure you some more. I've had my boy 3 years and together we have been very successful in working hunter and showjumping. He is my dream and I've waited all my life for him. Last year we were competing successfully but had a couple of run outs and knock downs, then an arching of his back when tacking up... vet came out and he was diagnosed with KS and proximal ligament desmitis. It has now been six months since diagnosus and my horse had the op, recovered and is rehabbing now, in fact today is the day I can finally get back on board and I'm very excited, just hope he doesn't chuck me off!
What I'm trying to say is, I felt devastated like you when he was diagnosed and was even given pts as an option because injections would not have helped him - he is vet and needle phobic, so the op was my only option. He is a changed horse! The six months have gone surprisingly fast.
I really hope you get a good solution for your horse, and remember its not the end, things can sort themselves out and vets are on the whole, knowledgeable about KS. 
Lots of hugs xxx


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## annar (15 January 2011)

Thanks for that RV. i just guess at times its a bit deflating. China was bought after my first horse was retired to a light hack only, after 2 months of having Frank he fell and fractured his pelvis unridden and 2 years on although recovered to hacking he now has spavins so i just feel as though my whole experience of horse ownership has been illness and we are starting again with China. Worse things happen i know and i will deal with this, would just like to be dealt an easier card on occasions lol, China was bought to take me further in schooling and jumping which is my passion. annax


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## RedVendetta (15 January 2011)

Really hope you find a good solution, you've had some really bad luck. Xx 
On a positive note I got back on the boy today and you'd have thought he'd had a day off, not six months, back to his usual saintly self straight away. If you ever need a rant feel free to rant to me, I know how devastating it can be and after your other experience, doubly so. Chin up and fingers crossed for you both x


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## HollyP (16 January 2011)

Hi, Bridie is a weaver and has seperation anxiety, but she went straight from hospital to rehab, I also chose a quiet yard and she coped perfectly.  will add you both on fb...on there somwhere are some pics of bridie during rehab! iv got a lot of work to do with her in the next few weeks...she has been of for 3 months and im desperate to get out there and get her topline back!


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## HollyP (16 January 2011)

ivebeentangoed ~ whats your profile pic on fb??


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## annar (16 January 2011)

Thanks both. if China goes for surgery ive already made the decision that he will go straight to rehab. I find watching them stressing very stressful myself and know that this way he will be cared for as and when he needs rather than just am and pm visits and he can be monitored safely. annax


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## xxMozlarxx (16 January 2011)

RedVendetta said:



			Just been reading your posts and thought I would try and reassure you some more. I've had my boy 3 years and together we have been very successful in working hunter and showjumping. He is my dream and I've waited all my life for him. Last year we were competing successfully but had a couple of run outs and knock downs, then an arching of his back when tacking up... vet came out and he was diagnosed with KS and proximal ligament desmitis. It has now been six months since diagnosus and my horse had the op, recovered and is rehabbing now, in fact today is the day I can finally get back on board and I'm very excited, just hope he doesn't chuck me off!
What I'm trying to say is, I felt devastated like you when he was diagnosed and was even given pts as an option because injections would not have helped him - he is vet and needle phobic, so the op was my only option. He is a changed horse! The six months have gone surprisingly fast.
I really hope you get a good solution for your horse, and remember its not the end, things can sort themselves out and vets are on the whole, knowledgeable about KS. 
Lots of hugs xxx
		
Click to expand...

My horse had similar problems to yours, KS (aggressive contact on one process) with suspensory damage. We are now at lunging and limited turnout stage. My research and pre-op period went on for over 6 months and I think I read all there is to read, spoke to so many people, did all the usual back person, rest, injections, lunging etc and stressed and shed many tears for my dream horse. I think it was me who penned the phrase 'at least I will have tried' when I made the decision to go ahead and operate, not that I really doubted it!
Svend Kold who did Ozzies op has said that the majority of horses that he operates on come back to ridden work after 6 weeks handwalking, which is really the wound and op recovery period, and 6 weeks pessoa lunging. 
The lunging program that we have is very intense mind you with 50 trot to canter transitions within a session and pole work. I hope I'm up to it for my boy but if not I guess it will just take a bit longer.
Glad to hear you had no problems getting back on, I'm a bit nervous I must admit, Oz has always been a very kind and obedient boy, never one to explode or threaten so fingers crossed. xx

Oh... and theres no sign of any problems with the suspensories either, they seem to have held up well!!


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## Ivebeentangoed (16 January 2011)

HollyP said:



			ivebeentangoed ~ whats your profile pic on fb??
		
Click to expand...

Only changed my pic today  is now me with a bear hat pulled over my face x


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## RedVendetta (16 January 2011)

Nigsha said:



			My horse had similar problems to yours, KS (aggressive contact on one process) with suspensory damage. We are now at lunging and limited turnout stage. My research and pre-op period went on for over 6 months and I think I read all there is to read, spoke to so many people, did all the usual back person, rest, injections, lunging etc and stressed and shed many tears for my dream horse. I think it was me who penned the phrase 'at least I will have tried' when I made the decision to go ahead and operate, not that I really doubted it!
Svend Kold who did Ozzies op has said that the majority of horses that he operates on come back to ridden work after 6 weeks handwalking, which is really the wound and op recovery period, and 6 weeks pessoa lunging. 
The lunging program that we have is very intense mind you with 50 trot to canter transitions within a session and pole work. I hope I'm up to it for my boy but if not I guess it will just take a bit longer.
Glad to hear you had no problems getting back on, I'm a bit nervous I must admit, Oz has always been a very kind and obedient boy, never one to explode or threaten so fingers crossed. xx

Oh... and theres no sign of any problems with the suspensories either, they seem to have held up well!!
		
Click to expand...

Yes the ligament problem seems to have been solved by the KS op, so fingers crossed there he wont need any further work on that just yet. The vet said he was compensating for the pain in his back with the back legs and the one with the ligament problem had been injured in the past so was weak anyway. Ive ridden him twice now and he didnt bat an eyelid but can tell he isnt happy in his saddle so Ive got a master saddler coming out on Tues, and going to blow all my cash on a new saddle so I will have fixed horse with saddle that fits! He has changed shape since the op. I dont have to lunge until he's happy going in circles as vet wants me to do lots of straight lines at first. I think they all have different rehab programmes but I cant canter til week 8 and won't be jumping til at least April, by the time I get back to jumping it will have been nearly a year. It's amazing how common KS seems to be, a lot of people seem to have had some experience with it, be it first hand or not. Good luck with the rehab


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## Ivebeentangoed (16 January 2011)

RedVendetta said:



			Yes the ligament problem seems to have been solved by the KS op, so fingers crossed there he wont need any further work on that just yet. The vet said he was compensating for the pain in his back with the back legs and the one with the ligament problem had been injured in the past so was weak anyway. Ive ridden him twice now and he didnt bat an eyelid but can tell he isnt happy in his saddle so Ive got a master saddler coming out on Tues, and going to blow all my cash on a new saddle so I will have fixed horse with saddle that fits! He has changed shape since the op. I dont have to lunge until he's happy going in circles as vet wants me to do lots of straight lines at first. I think they all have different rehab programmes but I cant canter til week 8 and won't be jumping til at least April, by the time I get back to jumping it will have been nearly a year. It's amazing how common KS seems to be, a lot of people seem to have had some experience with it, be it first hand or not. Good luck with the rehab 

Click to expand...

Hope you dont mind, but I have a few questions!

When did he have the operation? 
When Tango was discharged the vet said he has to have 2 weeks complete box rest, I thought he would have at least needed walking a little each day just to keep him loose. Still, its been a week now so can start walking him next week.
They werent very specific regarding rehab, just walking in hand, lunging then riding, nothing about using pessoa or poles etc... im hoping the rehab yard will know about it when it comes to it as I know that building up the back muscle is a big part of his rehab.
Am hoping I can at least be back on and walking about by the summer, I miss it so much!! The hacking where he is is fantastic so really want to be out plodding round the countryside!
xx


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## xxMozlarxx (17 January 2011)

I had very specific rehab, all hay and feed to be fed on the ground to encourage stretch through the back, in hand grazing for the first 2 weeks to allow him to be a horse (couldnt do this due after first week to him being so fresh and the weather!) 6 weeks walking to keep him supple (struggled with this due to weather and him being a loon but managed some walking in the barn and in the school!) 6 weeks very specific lunging with a pessoa, long, deep and round with nose behind the vertical to elevate the back through the wither.Related distance trotting poles for a higher trot to help with proprioception and to build abdominal musculature, 50 trot to canter transistions per session to strengthen lumbosacral region and the caudal part of the bridge. All makes sense when you break it down. I was given a report which had all this detail on as well as his discharge care.


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## annar (17 January 2011)

how did your horse do? is it back to full work? im interested to know if horses following surgery have a good chance of full work. how long before your horse was back in ridden work? ideally id like him sorting earlier so we have the better weather to go through a recovery and nothing to limit what we have to do. last thing i want it to be rehabing through winter as where we are is high on hills and gets all the bad weather. annax


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## xxMozlarxx (17 January 2011)

We are just on pessoa now! I wouldnt recommend rehab through the winter, we couldnt have had it worse with the snow, still, we are getting there just a bit slower.


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## Ivebeentangoed (18 January 2011)

Im a bit worried about how vague my vets were regarding his rehab now!

It was 1 piece of paper with about 5 points on, nothing about eating from the ground, etc... I have text the rehab YO and asked her opinion, I know the vet his going to him today to take the rest of his stitches out so am hoping she will speak to him about it.

I feel a bit let down by the vets now, I know the rehab is just as important as the operation and cant beleive they havent given me more precise instructions on how to care for and exercise him!!!!

Anyway, walking out doesnt start till next Monday so will let you all know how it goes (will be done by the rehab yard not me)

xx


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## HollyP (18 January 2011)

Speak to your vet, my rehab was very similar to Nigshas but didnt go into much detail (but mine was 2 years ago so they must have developed it since!) it wouldnt hurt reading up on building topline on the lunge, different things you can do to make it more interesting too


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## xxMozlarxx (20 January 2011)

I can send the rehab to you if you like? I think Svend is considered to be one of the best in terms of his research.


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## annar (20 January 2011)

would you be able to send a copy to me please? annax


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## xxMozlarxx (21 January 2011)

Of course, if anyone gives me their email I can scan and send x


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## Ivebeentangoed (23 January 2011)

Brill thankyou.. abigail_yearsley@yahoo.co.uk 
xx


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