# Mare in foal due to negligence of mareâ€™s owner - legal rights of the stallion owner



## Hug (27 March 2019)

Hi all would appreciate your advice on the below serious incident. I am the owner of a stallion which i do not use for breeding and cannot be castrated due to age. A couple of nights ago i got called that my stallion was out of its paddock and was mounting a mare. This was the result of the negligence of the owner of the mare,who had a mare which was on heat in an unsecure paddock, despite our repeated warnings of the risk of her getting out. What happened is that the mare, along with another younger horse, got out of their paddock. The mare went towards the paddock of our stallion, which is at a safe distance, provoked it, possibly broke the fence and then the stallion got out. As a result, it is quite possible that the mare is in foal,which we will know for sure in a few weeks time.
Has anyone experienced a similar situation? What are my legal options in case the owner of the mare claims the foal? If we had to take the legal route can you please advice experts in the Uk that we can use?

Please note this is the sweetest stallion, very well behaved even when mares pass by. We have been in this yard for years and our stallion never caused an issue. 

Thank you


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## twiggy2 (27 March 2019)

Your stallion was not in its field nor was the mare, shit happens, both animals were out, who can say who's fault it was?


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## Hug (27 March 2019)

twiggy2 said:



			Your stallion was not in its field nor was the mare, shit happens, both animals were out, who can say who's fault it was?
		
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But if the mare was confined safely in its paddock this would not have happened.


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## Amymay (27 March 2019)

Hug said:



			But if the mare was confined safely in its paddock this would not have happened.
		
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Likewise your stallion.

They can always have the mare jabbed to end any pregnancy.  But if they donâ€™t go down this route you can always ask if you can both come to some agreement regarding the foal.


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## Hug (27 March 2019)

Hug said:



			But if the mare was confined safely in its paddock this would not have happened.
		
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Also it is not a matter of only assigning responsibility, but also what happens the foal.


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## HeyMich (27 March 2019)

Call the vet, give the horse equivalent of the morning after pill (can't remember the name) and split the bill. Simples ðŸ˜‰


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## HeyMich (27 March 2019)

Oh, and fix your respective fences.


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## bonny (27 March 2019)

I think if the pregnancy continues then the mares owners own the foal


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## Pearlsasinger (27 March 2019)

The foal will belong to the owner of the mare, what did you expect?


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## ester (27 March 2019)

jab the mare, everyone stop worrying about it.


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## Hug (27 March 2019)

Can we request that the pregnancy does not continue?


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## ester (27 March 2019)

well of course you can ask, that doesn't mean it will happen given that it would be veterinary treatment for a horse that you don't own.
Why are you so worried about what happens to the as yet non-existant foal? and considering legal options? Realistically it is the mare's owner that is taking all the risk if they continue?


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## {138171} (27 March 2019)

'Cant be gelded due to age' utter nonsense


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## The Fuzzy Furry (27 March 2019)

OP, you need to ask a legal expert. If you are a member, call the BHS legal line.

I've kept stallions in the past, not one has broken a fence tho one did jump the 6ft fence...
Others (mares and geldings) have got out due to human negligence,  but still no broken down fences to get to entires. They (my entires)were never left out at night though except in winter when out together or with geldings.

I've also had a very mature stallion gelded at 15 tho it WAS done at Orspital not at home, he lived a very happy life.

Hope you sort it out. My take is:  Your lad got out, you pay for mare to be sorted. Get your lad gelded.


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## SusieT (27 March 2019)

If your stallion was not in a mare proof fence (regardless of whether a parade of mares is being marched two feet from his fence all in heat) then you are also at fault. I would assume mare will deal with her costs and you will deal with yours and foal will belong to mares owner.


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## Auslander (27 March 2019)

What is your issue? Obviously the situation isn't ideal, but what happened happened. I don't understand what you want to achieve here


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## Orangehorse (27 March 2019)

FTB said:



			'Cant be gelded due to age' utter nonsense
		
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The older the stallion the bigger the operation.  Older stallions do get gelded, but there are more risks than a young colt.

The general rule is that you fence in your own animals, but I have to agree that it isn't very easy to enforce.


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## Parrotperson (27 March 2019)

I think you'll find OP it's your responsibility to make sure your livestock don't break out whatever the circumstances. that said get the mare jabbed. pay the bill. it's not worth the worry.


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## ycbm (27 March 2019)

I don't understand the issue. Your stallion was not  adequately contained in his paddock. He got out. Stallions are routinely 'provoked' by mares. Unless you owned the field that the mare broke into, then I can't see whose responsibility it is for your stallion breaking out of his own paddock than your own. 

There is no good  reason except cost not to castrate an older stallion. It happens every day.


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## ycbm (27 March 2019)

Orangehorse said:



			The older the stallion the bigger the operation.  Older stallions do get gelded, but there are more risks than a young colt.
		
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This isn't true except up to a point, is it?   Vets prefer a GA on an older horse for safety reasons, but it's not more difficult to castrate a 6 year old under GA than a 16 year old under GA, is it?

Cost of a GA  is a key reason why people choose not to castrate an older horse, I think. In which case, you need to double fence and keep your fingers crossed too.


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## Peregrine Falcon (27 March 2019)

A stallion should have suitable fencing to contain him. Mare owners should make sure their stock are kept at a distance and have decent fencing if on the same premises.

One of my fillies was covered by an escapee colt. My vet was coming to do a booster on another pony so I got her jabbed at the same time. The cost was minimal Â£20 but it put my mind at rest and prevented an unwanted pregnancy. I came to a suitable agreement with the colt's owner.


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## JJS (28 March 2019)

Legally, whether or not there is a foal is entirely down to the mare owner. You have no control over whether they decide to continue with a possible pregnancy, and no claim on any foal that might be born. 

In terms of whoâ€™s responsible for the incident, both of your animals escaped, making you and the mare owner equally culpable.


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## Bellaboo18 (28 March 2019)

'possibly broke the fence and then the stallion got out' or the stallion broke the fence, who knows? 
The fence wasn't adequate full stop. I agree with others, you're both equally responsible and the mares owner should be able to decide the fate of the possible foal.


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## meleeka (28 March 2019)

I donâ€™t you get to decide what the mares owners do with their animal. Why would you expect to?


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## Equi (28 March 2019)

As said youâ€™re both culpable. 

Up to the mare owner now to decide if she wants to get her jabbed or not. If she doesnâ€™t and ends up with a foal then itâ€™s her responsibility. She canâ€™t come after you for vet fees as her mare broke out too. 

Damn these horny animals.


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## luckyoldme (28 March 2019)

Hug said:



			Can we request that the pregnancy does not continue?
		
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Think this is more about the obvious animosity between yourself and the neighbours than anything horsey.


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## LadySam (28 March 2019)

Hug said:



			Can we request that the pregnancy does not continue?
		
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What does it matter to you whether the pregnancy continues or not?  Genuinely curious.


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## ihatework (28 March 2019)

Equal responsibility.
Improve your fencing so this doesnâ€™t happen again as next time you stallion could be at fault and you could incur reasonable costs from an unwanted pregnancy.
Itâ€™s now up to the mare owner to decide how to proceed, you have no say. But should probably sigh some relief if they donâ€™t come after you for costs.
If your stallion is good/registered you obviously arenâ€™t obliged to provide them with a covering certificate if they keep the foal and you might have some legit cause to request a covering fee if they do want papers.

Also bear in mind this mare presumably hasnâ€™t had health tests. So if you do use your stallion to cover other horses you might want him tested.


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## Clodagh (28 March 2019)

I think this thread is funny, and akin to the son's girlfriend's Dad knocking on the door to say she is pregnant and who is at fault. I am sure it takes two to tango.


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## Zero00000 (28 March 2019)

Both horses escaped, no-one was there to see what happened, maybe your stallion escaped first?

Your horse had a quick dip of his whip and walks away all proud of himself, you get to fix a broken fence - said mare ends up in foal and owner decides to go ahead, thats - vets visits, extra feed, stress and worry, possibility of extra cost for complications ect ect.. and you ask who can claim the foal 

Look at making your fencing 'stallion proof' or 'escaped mare proof' and chalk it up to experience


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## Mule (28 March 2019)

Zero00000 said:



			Both horses escaped, no-one was there to see what happened, maybe your stallion escaped first?

Your horse had a quick dip of his whip and walks away all proud of himself, you get to fix a broken fence - said mare ends up in foal and owner decides to go ahead, thats - vets visits, extra feed, stress and worry, possibility of extra cost for complications ect ect.. and you ask who can claim the foal 

Look at making your fencing 'stallion proof' or 'escaped mare proof' and chalk it up to experience
		
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Aye, it's like with humans; the stallion can have his fun and bugger off and the mare is left with the responsibility


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## cundlegreen (29 March 2019)

This precisely why my stallion is stabled every night. Even at 22, he will get over or through any barrier if a mare is in season and in the vicinity. A course of prostaglandin injections should sort out the problem if the mare owner doesn't want a new arrival. There is more onus on you to keep a stallion confined whether he's used for breeding or not.


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## Snowfilly (1 April 2019)

I can't imagine what you're getting at! Mare got out, your stallion got out, equal responsibility and be glad it was a covering, not a leg breaking kick or similar.

You'll have no rights to the foal, and you can't oblige them to get the mare jabbed.


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## joosie (1 April 2019)

I notice OP hasn't been back to this since they got all these answers they didn't want to hear


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## {97702} (2 April 2019)

I stumbled on this thread by accident - is the OP concerned that the mare will take her stallion to the CSA if he doesnâ€™t pay maintenance for his offspring?


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## Mule (2 April 2019)

Levrier said:



			I stumbled on this thread by accident - is the OP concerned that the mare will take her stallion to the CSA if he doesnâ€™t pay maintenance for his offspring?
		
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ðŸ˜‚


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## The Trooper (2 April 2019)

Levrier said:



			I stumbled on this thread by accident - is the OP concerned that the mare will take her stallion to the CSA if he doesnâ€™t pay maintenance for his offspring?
		
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I'm creased ðŸ˜‚ ðŸ˜‚ ðŸ˜‚ ðŸ˜‚


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## Goldenstar (2 April 2019)

Hug said:



			Can we request that the pregnancy does not continue?
		
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You can request anything you like the owner of the mare can tell you to jog on if they choose .
The mare was out the stallion was out it comes u dear stuff happens .


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## Red-1 (2 April 2019)

I see it as the stallion's owner has a higher degree of responsibility. IMO it is more likely that the stallion broke out and broke into the mare's field. Both then ended up somewhere else. In that case you are lucky that the mare's owner does not sound like they are claiming costs.

Levrier, you won the internet with that comment


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## Mrs. Jingle (2 April 2019)

Levrier said:



			I stumbled on this thread by accident - is the OP concerned that the mare will take her stallion to the CSA if he doesnâ€™t pay maintenance for his offspring?
		
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Love it! 10 out of 10 for this one!


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## tallyho! (2 April 2019)

Levrier said:



			I stumbled on this thread by accident - is the OP concerned that the mare will take her stallion to the CSA if he doesnâ€™t pay maintenance for his offspring?
		
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Oh! Just...... grinning here *applauses*


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## ester (2 April 2019)

lol I was waiting for the twist re. this wasn't actually about horses at all....


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## Nasicus (4 April 2019)

I don't think OP is coming back, seeing as her defence of her virtuous stallion being tempted by the whoreish mare fell flat


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## oldie48 (1 May 2019)

Blimey, this rang a few bells with me with regard to Rose and the stallion across the lane. Stallion's owner, when tackled about the insecure gate etc, said he wouldn't charge me a stud fee if he got out and served Rose successfully. Bloody cheek of it! So Rose won't be out at night, won't be in the field nearest to the stallion when she's in season and is the furthest away I can manage behind 2 lots of electric fencing on the mains when she is in season. It is an absolute pita.


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## 9tails (1 May 2019)

oldie48 said:



			Blimey, this rang a few bells with me with regard to Rose and the stallion across the lane. Stallion's owner, when tackled about the insecure gate etc, said he wouldn't charge me a stud fee if he got out and served Rose successfully.
		
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Worra bargain!


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## Pearlsasinger (1 May 2019)

oldie48 said:



			Blimey, this rang a few bells with me with regard to Rose and the stallion across the lane. Stallion's owner, when tackled about the insecure gate etc, said he wouldn't charge me a stud fee if he got out and served Rose successfully. Bloody cheek of it! So Rose won't be out at night, won't be in the field nearest to the stallion when she's in season and is the furthest away I can manage behind 2 lots of electric fencing on the mains when she is in season. It is an absolute pita.
		
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Well, of course, your answer to that should have been 'But I *will* charge you the vet fees if I have to terminate a pregnancy'!


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## tristar (1 May 2019)

i have often seen mares get out go to the stallion and while screaming and striking out bring the fence down and get in with the stallion.


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## oldie48 (1 May 2019)

tristar said:



			i have often seen mares get out go to the stallion and while screaming and striking out bring the fence down and get in with the stallion.
		
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Yeah well, I've known horses and ponies get out of fields regardless of the presence of a stallion, however, to date, none of mine ever have! Different case with the stallion across the lane, he's got out on a number of occasions!


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## tristar (2 May 2019)

oldie48 said:



			Yeah well, I've known horses and ponies get out of fields regardless of the presence of a stallion, however, to date, none of mine ever have! Different case with the stallion across the lane, he's got out on a number of occasions!
		
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i say this as a stallion owner of many years, and in this case it is not clear which got out out first, stallion or mare, but it illustrates the potential of different possibilities  for us to be aware of, i am am equally cautious with both stallion and mare where both are present.


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## milliepops (2 May 2019)

Doubtless horses can get out of fields and do at various times.

I think the point here is that if o48s mare is minding her own business in her field, and the stallion escapes his field and gets into hers, then it's quite clear who would be at fault   which is different to the scenario in the OP which just seems like a really muddled account of events.


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## Clava (2 May 2019)

You are legally required to contain your stock from accessing others people land and causing damage. You don't say if the stallion was still on your land when the incident happened.


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## scats (2 May 2019)

I was in the hairdressers a couple of years ago and there was a lady next to me with a broken leg.  We got chatting and it turned out she was in her field seeing to her horses when a loose stallion came thundering down the lane, jumped in to her field and proceeded to attack her gelding to get to her mare.  The lady ended up in the middle of it and her leg was broken by one of the horses kicking her.


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## hopscotch bandit (3 May 2019)

In respect of late gelding.  My friend lost a horse that was gelded late (he was eight at the time). He was 14 and suffered a heart attack and died almost instantaneously.

Her vet said that horses that are gelded late have a slightly higher risk of heart attack than those gelded young. Also suggested that it was quite common in horses who had good breeding and had therefore covered a lot of mares which obviously isn't in the OP's case.

I don't know what the legal ramifications are of who has the right 'over the foal' but I would have thought the person picking up the costs of looking after the mare whilst in foal and any fees in relation to a vet attending the birth would have more of a right, particuarly as they will need to house the foal until its at least 6 months, but preferably 8 or 9 months of age before it can be separated from the mare.  Maybe legal advice is the best way to go.


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