# Oy, you with the arthritic mare ......



## cptrayes (16 August 2014)

on the road to Flash in Staffordshire.  The poor mare has had more and more trouble standing for the last three years with increasingly enormous lumps on her knees. Today she is on three legs, with the biggest one stuck out in front of her. She may perk up when she sees you, but the rest of the time she is miserable.

PLEASE PUT THE POOR CREATURE DOWN


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## Holly Hocks (16 August 2014)

Can you not report it to WHW?


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## cptrayes (16 August 2014)

I don't know, will they do anything? She is 'well cared for', brought in at night, clearly loved, but loved too much by someone who doesn't want to face the hard decision.


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## bonny (16 August 2014)

Not your decision though and I think this in very poor taste.....just hope the person concerned doesn't see this.


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## be positive (16 August 2014)

The local BHS welfare officer may be the best option, they tend to be sensible horse owners and just offer advice rather than the WHW who may put the owners, if they even go out, on the defensive as they may seem more official, if it is as bad as you describe a quiet word may be enough, shame more vets don't broach the subject unless actually asked.


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## hihosilver (16 August 2014)

bonny said:



			Not your decision though and I think this in very poor taste.....just hope the person concerned doesn't see this.
		
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yes I agree just report it and walk away-The horse is clearly loved.


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## Feival (16 August 2014)

Bonny are you having a laugh. I hope the individual involved DOES see this and its the kick up the arse they need, to do the right thing.


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## bonny (16 August 2014)

Not having a laugh no, someone else's horse and their decision, not some random passerby. Maybe it's an old horse having one last summer, who knows, but unless it's a welfare case which it doesn't sound like then posting this on a public forum is at best unkind and I fail to see what good can come of embarassing someone in this way


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## cobgoblin (16 August 2014)

bonny said:



			Not having a laugh no, someone else's horse and their decision, not some random passerby. Maybe it's an old horse having one last summer, who knows, but unless it's a welfare case which it doesn't sound like then posting this on a public forum is at best unkind and I fail to see what good can come of embarassing someone in this way
		
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I agree with this.


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## Goldenstar (16 August 2014)

A horse with that degree of lameness is a welfare case it's matters not a jot if a horse is 'loved ' if it's on three legs with arthritis pain that's serious and needs attention .
Welfare officers will attend such cases I have done so my self and often it is the cue for the owners own vet to nudge the owner into the making the decision.
All the welfare people I have worked with where not overly officious in these circumstances we all recognise that  some owners when they see horses daily don't see a oldie going subtly downhill.


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## BSL (16 August 2014)

Maybe it would be better to wait and speak with the person directly about your concerns, rather than post on here.


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## Fides (16 August 2014)

Probably being buted to be ridden - some people see nothing wrong with this *rolls eyes*. Poor horse  WHW call possibly


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## cptrayes (16 August 2014)

bonny said:



			Not your decision though and I think this in very poor taste.....just hope the person concerned doesn't see this.
		
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I wrote it because I hope they do.


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## cptrayes (16 August 2014)

bonny said:



			Not having a laugh no, someone else's horse and their decision, not some random passerby. Maybe it's an old horse having one last summer, who knows, but unless it's a welfare case which it doesn't sound like then posting this on a public forum is at best unkind and I fail to see what good can come of embarassing someone in this way
		
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She's had three last  summers already more than I would have given her. This mare is dying by degrees in the 'care' of her owner. I just hope they aren't going to put her through another winter


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## HollyWoozle (16 August 2014)

If the horse is on three legs then it is a welfare case!


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## cptrayes (16 August 2014)

BSL said:



			Maybe it would be better to wait and speak with the person directly about your concerns, rather than post on here.
		
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You think they'd like a total stranger to knock on their door and tell them to put their horse down, do you?  I chose this way because they do not have to face me on their doorstep and they can stay anonymous. And because I was so upset at seeing the mare today.


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## cptrayes (16 August 2014)

Fides said:



			Probably being buted to be ridden - some people see nothing wrong with this *rolls eyes*. Poor horse  WHW call possibly
		
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I think she's a retired brood mare Fides, she's never ridden that I know of.


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## bonny (16 August 2014)

cptrayes said:



			She's had three last  summers already more than I would have given her. This mare is dying by degrees in the 'care' of her owner. I just hope they aren't going to put her through another winter 

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Is not your decision though and I doubt you would like your care of your animals to be debated over by a bunch of strangers on the internet. We all have different ideas about when an animal has reached the end of the road and the ultimate decision has to rest with the owner and not you. There are horses, dogs, sheep etc who are are lame all over the country, people too for that matter and as the owner does sound like they care about the mare then it's their business and not yours when she is PTS>


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## Fides (16 August 2014)

bonny said:



			Is not your decision though and I doubt you would like your care of your animals to be debated over by a bunch of strangers on the internet. We all have different ideas about when an animal has reached the end of the road and the ultimate decision has to rest with the owner and not you. There are horses, dogs, sheep etc who are are lame all over the country, people too for that matter and as the owner does sound like they care about the mare then it's their business and not yours when she is PTS>
		
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Actually you are wrong here. If the horse is suffering anyone would be within their rights reporting the owner to WHW. If they deem the owners have caused undue suffering then the owners could be in a lot of trouble...

Why on earth would you condemn someone for caring about the well being of an animal - that's callous


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## cptrayes (16 August 2014)

bonny said:



			Is not your decision though and I doubt you would like your care of your animals to be debated over by a bunch of strangers on the internet.
		
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It has been, at great length 




			We all have different ideas about when an animal has reached the end of the road and the ultimate decision has to rest with the owner and not you. There are horses, dogs, sheep etc who are are lame all over the country, people too for that matter and as the owner does sound like they care about the mare then it's their business and not yours when she is PTS>
		
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If it had rested with me I'd have had her shot at least two years ago. That's kind of my point, that it's not my decision!


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## BSL (16 August 2014)

cptrayes said:



			You think they'd like a total stranger to knock on their door and tell them to put their horse down, do you?  I chose this way because they do not have to face me on their doorstep and they can stay anonymous. And because I was so upset at seeing the mare today.
		
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I personally would prefer to argue/discuss my decisions face to face rather than be discussed on a public forum.


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## cptrayes (16 August 2014)

BSL said:



			I personally would prefer to argue/discuss my decisions face to face rather than be discussed on a public forum.
		
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To be honest, if you left a horse in the field like that I wouldn't really be terribly concerned what you would prefer. I hadn't thought of whw (I know the local RSPCA probably won't do much)  I'll call them on Monday when their phone line is open.


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## YorksG (16 August 2014)

If the owner of the horse recognizes the description of the horse then they know how bad things are, if they are refusing to acknowlege the problem, this might spur them into action. If it's the first case then this discussion will mean nothing to them any way so no harm done.


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## bonny (16 August 2014)

Fides said:



			Actually you are wrong here. If the horse is suffering anyone would be within their rights reporting the owner to WHW. If they deem the owners have caused undue suffering then the owners could be in a lot of trouble...

Why on earth would you condemn someone for caring about the well being of an animal - that's callous
		
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I'm not condemning anyone for caring, I'm condemning her for posting about it in this way and pointing out that we all have different ideas about when to pts and it's for the owner to decide, no one else. If anyone is concerned about a possible welfare case then report it if you think it's called for, but being old and arthritic is not a welfare issue imo if the horse is being looked after properly.


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## cptrayes (16 August 2014)

I had a bigger motive than one horse in posting this thread. If it helps anyone realise that when the see their old horse day after day, they may not realise how it has deteriorated, then I'll be happy. It isn't the first time I've seen this happen by a long, long chalk.


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## cptrayes (16 August 2014)

bonny said:



			I'm not condemning anyone for caring, I'm condemning her for posting about it in this way and pointing out that we all have different ideas about when to pts and it's for the owner to decide, no one else. If anyone is concerned about a possible welfare case then report it if you think it's called for, but being old and arthritic is not a welfare issue imo if the horse is being looked after properly.
		
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I disagree with you. This horse is now definitely a welfare case, she is bearing very little weight on one front leg and the knee is so big with arthritis I can see that it has increased in size again when I am  passing in a car  fifty yards away. She has already been unable to completely straighten her front legs for two years.

The owner is not the only person who has the right to say that this horse should be put out of her pain, and I'll be trying to find someone on Monday to go and tell them so.


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## BSL (16 August 2014)

cptrayes said:



			To be honest, if you left a horse in the field like that I wouldn't really be terribly concerned what you would prefer. I hadn't thought of whw (I know the local RSPCA probably won't do much)  I'll call them on Monday when their phone line is open.
		
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 I suppose that's where we differ. If I considered it a welfare case I would have reported them straight away to the appropriate authorities.


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## zigzag (16 August 2014)

Why didn't you report it two years ago if she has been that bad?


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## cobgoblin (16 August 2014)

Just report it if you think it's appropriate. No need to post on here in the hope someone will recognise their horse, that's just unpleasant.


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## cptrayes (17 August 2014)

​


zigzag said:



			Why didn't you report it two years ago if she has been that bad?
		
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Because I agree that  it's not my place to tell someone else when their old horse  should be put down. I assume she is on pain relief and the locking out problem with the front legs mostly mechanical, but it's gone to far now


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## cptrayes (17 August 2014)

cobgoblin said:



			Just report it if you think it's appropriate. No need to post on here in the hope someone will recognise their horse, that's just unpleasant.
		
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I didn't do it just for that reason, as I explained above. Too many people do this, either deliberately, or because they don't see the deterioration in their horse because it happens gradually over time.

Please everyone, If you've got an old horse, get someone who has nothing to gain or lose by upsetting you to take a look at it regularly and tell you the truth. The vet and your mates aren't enough!


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## ribbons (17 August 2014)

You are priceless cpt, absolutely priceless. Just when I think you can't get anymore arrogant.
Only you could choose to deal with a situation like this with 'Oy, you with the arthritic mare'.

Is there anything you're not an expert on?
Anything that can be resolved any way other than yours ?


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## twiggy2 (17 August 2014)

this thread is a little saddening-it shows how social media distances people from people in a way that makes bullying faceless and therefore acceptable by many who would not bully when face to face with someone.

just sad


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## cptrayes (17 August 2014)

ribbons said:



			You are priceless cpt, absolutely priceless. Just when I think you can't get anymore arrogant.
Only you could choose to deal with a situation like this with 'Oy, you with the arthritic mare'.

Is there anything you're not an expert on?
Anything that can be resolved any way other than yours ?
		
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Do me a favour Ribbons, put me on user ignore.  Then the people who send me PMs so that they can tell me how my advice has helped their horses can read what I write and you won't have to get upset by me knowing more than you do, or by you knowing more than I do but not sharing it with people.


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## cptrayes (17 August 2014)

twiggy2 said:



			this thread is a little saddening-it shows how social media distances people from people in a way that makes bullying faceless and therefore acceptable by many who would not bully when face to face with someone.

just sad
		
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I post under my own name. I don't say anything that I wouldn't say to their face of I met them, barring the 'oy you' which I wrote to get people attention on the forum in case they had old horses they should be taking a second look at.


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## Fun Times (17 August 2014)

Perhaps if you want to be certain of getting the specific individual's attention a well worded letter expressing your concerns pinned to the gate would be the more effective and appropriate course of action. Then a separate thread reminding everyone to be vigilant against deterioration in their horse's condition to cover your second and subsequent issue. The approach adopted seems potentially ineffective at best and in poor taste.


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## cptrayes (17 August 2014)

Fun Times said:



			The approach adopted seems potentially ineffective at best and in poor taste.
		
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I accept that in some people's opinion it's in poor taste.  But ineffective?  Have you looked at the hit rate?


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## ribbons (17 August 2014)

Ah, the hit rate.


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## cptrayes (17 August 2014)

ribbons said:



			Ah, the hit rate.
		
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And your point is  ?


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## AmandaMT (17 August 2014)

Cptrayes you did this I am sure with the best intentions but I do think it distasteful as well. If you are truly concerned a kind word to a possibly less knowledgable owner could be more understood.


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## cptrayes (17 August 2014)

AmandaMT said:



			Cptrayes you did this I am sure with the best intentions but I do think it distasteful as well. If you are truly concerned a kind word to a possibly less knowledgable owner could be more understood.
		
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He's a farmer who has been breeding horses and other animals for years.


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## Hippona (17 August 2014)

Often it doesn't work if you do say it to someone's face ....been there, done that.


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## ridefast (17 August 2014)

Good thread cptrayes  I always enjoy reading your posts, and I don't think you've done anything wrong. The owner might not even read this. Not EVERYONE goes on hho. I haven't been on for weeks!! So calm down everybody.


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## FestiveFuzz (17 August 2014)

ridefast said:



			Good thread cptrayes  I always enjoy reading your posts, and I don't think you've done anything wrong. The owner might not even read this. Not EVERYONE goes on hho. I haven't been on for weeks!! So calm down everybody.
		
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But isn't that just the point?! If the owner may not read this it's done nothing to help the poor mare that the OP is oh so concerned about. I agree with whoever suggested a well worded letter of concern left at the field. Much more effective at getting the point across to the individual concerned IMHO.


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## NativePonyLover (17 August 2014)

cptrayes said:



			I disagree with you. This horse is now definitely a welfare case, she is bearing very little weight on one front leg and the knee is so big with arthritis I can see that it has increased in size again when I am  passing in a car  fifty yards away. She has already been unable to completely straighten her front legs for two years.

The owner is not the only person who has the right to say that this horse should be put out of her pain, and I'll be trying to find someone on Monday to go and tell them so.
		
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I do agree that the owner may need a hand to see something in a much lived animal they see day in, day out. And there's nothing to be ashamed about in reporting. 

But you haven't. You've titled this topic rudely 'Oi, you' is hardly polite is it? You've slated some person you don't even know - for all you know, the vet could be coming to PTS Monday morning - on an Internet forum. Where no action can be taken. 

Posting a thread on the internet is not the same thing at all as reporting to appropriate welfare authorities to work with the owner - where action could be taken for the mare, if she is really as bad as you say she is. 

This just just stinks of poor taste, IMHO. There are far better ways you could have got an equally effective message over to educate the 'masses'  - if that really was your intention in posting this.


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## Nettle123 (17 August 2014)

Call WHW rather than busy bodying on the internet and pretending "its for the general good of others" !!


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## cptrayes (17 August 2014)

NPL, if they want to reply, they can.  In my personal opinion, if the vet is coming on Monday then they are two years too late. But as people have pointed out, that wasn't my decision to make until the mare was clearly a welfare case. Doesn't mean I can't have an opinion on it though. I understand that a number of people thought I was wrong to post, but of course I agree with the ones who think I was right.


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## cptrayes (17 August 2014)

Nettle123 said:



			Call WHW rather than busy bodying on the internet and pretending "its for the general good of others" !!
		
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Who are you to dispute the motives that I have stated?  Can you read my mind?  I don't lie.


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## Wagtail (17 August 2014)

I think people are being a bit harsh on the OP. This thread does not name anyone. It is totally anonymous. Seems that nowadays there are too many posts criticising people for posting things when you have to ask, what on earth is this forum for if not to highlight problems and provide help for people and horses? It is probably the case that the owner doesn't even frequent the forums. It may well be the case that this thread helps someone look objectively on their own old arthritic horse and decide it's had enough. It may be the case that the owner is buting the horse up and it is not in any pain. Who knows? But I think the attacks on the OP are unwarranted.


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## zigzag (17 August 2014)

The OP is great at giving advice and getting on her high horse on what people should and shouldn't do, but doesn't take advice on the care of her horses ... even when several people state what they would do, but she knows best...


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## fawaz (17 August 2014)

bonny said:



			Not having a laugh no, someone else's horse and their decision, not some random passerby. Maybe it's an old horse having one last summer, who knows, but unless it's a welfare case which it doesn't sound like then posting this on a public forum is at best unkind and I fail to see what good can come of embarassing someone in this way
		
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How is a horse in pain not a welfare issue? How is having one last summer in crippling pain, OK? This IS a welfare issue. If a horse was in pain for any other reason (colic, broken leg, fence injury...) you wouldnt leave it there without either treatment or euthanasia. How is this different?


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## micramadam (17 August 2014)

I actually think the OP is right in highlighting this the way they did. The horse is obviously very well loved, so much so that they can't see past their love to make the heartbreaking decision that needs to be made. 
Shock tactics are sometimes needed to spur people into taking a good look at what they are doing.
No names have been mentioned and if the owner is on here and does see this, they may realise that because of their love, the mare is suffering. 
Its never an easy thing to admit and sometimes it needs a blunt remark from a stranger to make you realise what you're doing. Deciding to put a much loved animal to sleep is one of the hardest and most horrible decisions anyone will ever have to make. I feel for the mare but at the same time, I feel for her owner.


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## JFTDWS (17 August 2014)

Really poor taste - call the BHS / WHW if you genuinely believe it is a welfare issue.  I honestly cannot imagine why any "experienced" horse owner would not call the appropriate organisations first, before coming on here to educate the ignorant masses...



zigzag said:



			The OP is great at giving advice and getting on her high horse on what people should and shouldn't do, but doesn't take advice on the care of her horses ... even when several people state what they would do, but she knows best...
		
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Didn't you know the OP has a monopoly on "truth" and "being right"?  Who are we to question her supremacy?


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## Mongoose11 (17 August 2014)

Completely agree that an authority should be notified but to lord it up on here is pointless and attention seeking. 

This thread hasn't brought the mare any attention, just the OP. 

OP have you taken the APPROPRIATE action?


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## YorksG (17 August 2014)

We had a much loved and cared for elderly Appy mare,who had always been a very good doer. We saw her every day (obviously) so missed that she was loosing weight, our farrier pointed this out to us and we were grateful for the comment. Anyone can be too close to see.
Those who claim the OP is attention seeking, a bit of pots calling kettles imo


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## Fun Times (17 August 2014)

YorksG said:



			We had a much loved and cared for elderly Appy mare,who had always been a very good doer. We saw her every day (obviously) so missed that she was loosing weight, our farrier pointed this out to us and we were grateful for the comment. Anyone can be too close to see.
Those who claim the OP is attention seeking, a bit of pots calling kettles imo
		
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But I bet your farrier didnt post a rather unpleasant post on an internet forum specifying the rough location of your horse in order to bring the matter to your attention did he? I don't think anyone is disagreeing that sometimes people need to be shown what is under their nose as regards a much loved animal, the issue is how best to achieve this and I cannot for the life of me understand how this method can be thought to be either effecitvie or appropriate.


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## Goldenstar (17 August 2014)

I am extremely concerned that there are people posting who don't think a horse not weight bearing on a limb because of arthritis is not an welfare issue because the horse is 'loved'
I have never heard such rubbish.


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## hihosilver (17 August 2014)

Goldenstar said:



			I am extremely concerned that there are people posting who don't think a horse not weight bearing on a limb because of arthritis is not an welfare issue because the horse is 'loved'
I have never heard such rubbish.
		
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yes think we all agree it is a welfare issue but how is posting on here going to help?all it has done is put people backs up! The OP needs to inform the Welfare officer rather than posting a bitchy comment on here.  We really don't know the full story about this horse either.


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## NativePonyLover (17 August 2014)

Goldenstar said:



			I am extremely concerned that there are people posting who don't think a horse not weight bearing on a limb because of arthritis is not an welfare issue because the horse is 'loved'
I have never heard such rubbish.
		
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I've not seen anyone say that? 

I agree that if the mare is as bad as the OP says it is they both need professional help - either to advise on further treatment/management or putting to sleep. I don't think anyone is questioning that. 

I've never seen the mare & never met the OP - so I've got no idea on the reality of the situation. 

What I don't agree with, is an unpleasant post on an internet forum, that quite frankly the owner may not even see, is the best way to get the most appropriate help for this horse & owner - which the OP has stated, was her primary reason for posting this in the first place. 

That for me, is the questionable part. 

I very much hope this mare & owner are given the help & support they need by the appropriate authority.


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## Wagtail (17 August 2014)

We have threads on here complaining about YOs and other liveries, about how badly others keep their horses, badly behaving sharers, people who let their horses get too thin or too fat... the list is never ending. Nothing is said criticising the OPs. I rather think the people attacking the OP in this thread must have personal axes to grind. i.e. for some reason or another, they don't like the OP. I never understand this behaviour on forums. The way people bear grudges just because they may have had a disagreement in the past. A forum is a forum, and the subject of horses is bound to cause disagreements on various issues, but to comment on a thread motivated more by not liking/liking the OP rather than the subject matter itself is just strange, but sadly all too common. Of course there are also people who just like to criticise how other choose to use the forum, the self appointed moderators and other strange behaviours.


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## Goldenstar (17 August 2014)

NativePonyLover said:



			I've not seen anyone say that? 

I agree that if the mare is as bad as the OP says it is they both need professional help - either to advise on further treatment/management or putting to sleep. I don't think anyone is questioning that. 

I've never seen the mare & never met the OP - so I've got no idea on the reality of the situation. 

What I don't agree with, is an unpleasant post on an internet forum, that quite frankly the owner may not even see, is the best way to get the most appropriate help for this horse & owner - which the OP has stated, was her primary reason for posting this in the first place. 

That for me, is the questionable part. 

I very much hope this mare & owner are given the help & support they need by the appropriate authority.
		
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I refer to you back to the beginning of the thread .
Would I have have posted this no would I ring the RSPCA yes I would and did earlier in the summer in very similar circumstances.


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## Flame_ (17 August 2014)

Bit harsh OP, but justified IMO. Maybe you ought to have worded things more gently, but at least this approach gets the point across and it sounds like circumstances call for that, so yeah, fair play. Hope the owners read it and don't react with self pity at being "attacked" and just swallow the point and take some action.


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## Pearlsasinger (17 August 2014)

cptrayes said:



			I disagree with you. This horse is now definitely a welfare case, she is bearing very little weight on one front leg and the knee is so big with arthritis I can see that it has increased in size again when I am  passing in a car  fifty yards away. She has already been unable to completely straighten her front legs for two years.

The owner is not the only person who has the right to say that this horse should be put out of her pain, and I'll be trying to find someone on Monday to go and tell them so.
		
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I have found that Redwings are very good at educating owners into changing their ways for the better.

It certainly sounds like welfare case to me and I can see no evidence in anything OP has posted that the owner is 'caring' for the horse.

ETA, having read the whole thread - aren't some people strange?


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## cptrayes (17 August 2014)

zigzag said:



			The OP is great at giving advice and getting on her high horse on what people should and shouldn't do, but doesn't take advice on the care of her horses ... even when several people state what they would do, but she knows best...
		
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Name me one instance where I have failed to take the advice of people on the internet about the care of my horses when I was not supported in that decision by a veterinary surgeon.


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## MiJodsR2BlinkinTite (17 August 2014)

I can understand where you're coming from OP; a while ago I posted on here about some horses locally that I and other horsey and non-horsey people alike, were concerned for, and I was shot down in flames. 

So often owners are either blissfully ignorant of the true reality of their horse's condition and/or fail to notice something that a stranger can see straightaway. Sometimes dealing with a situation every day can blind an owner to seeing the true picture. Which probably sounds like what is happening in this case. Its probably the case that the mare has got old and deteriorated, and they just don't want to face facts. I'm being hopeful that this is the case, rather than genuine neglect - but whatever, if you don't know the owners personally, and don't know anyone else who does (and the owner would probably NOT be receptive in any case) then all you can do really is to notify someone like WHW.

An awful situation. Unfortunately OP not everyone cares for their horses like you and I would wish to do; and all too often there is a sentimentality that says the horse must be kept alive as long as possible because the owners don't have what it takes to make a decision and relieve the suffering of the poor animal. I fear this is just such a case, but whatever, if it is reported to them, WHW should hopefully be able to at least investigate and give appropriate advice to the owner.


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## cptrayes (17 August 2014)

Mongoose11 said:



			Completely agree that an authority should be notified but to lord it up on here is pointless and attention seeking. 

This thread hasn't brought the mare any attention, just the OP. 

OP have you taken the APPROPRIATE action?
		
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 Whw' s phone line is not open until Monday, as I have already stated.

Can you please explain what you mean by the expression 'lord it up'?  And how my posts do that any more than your own do?  And why, if you consider my thread to be attention seeking, you have chosen to give me the very attention that you think I seek?


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## julie111 (17 August 2014)

IMO this is not the place to air views of such a sensitive matter. Opinions are sometimes best kept to ones self, or maybe a quiet word with the owners should be the first port of call?


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## cptrayes (17 August 2014)

julie111 said:



			IMO this is not the place to air views of such a sensitive matter. Opinions are sometimes best kept to ones self, or maybe a quiet word with the owners should be the first port of call?
		
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 And by posting this Julie, you have brought even more attention to a thread you do not think should have been posted. Can't quite see your logic there.


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## julie111 (17 August 2014)

Just suggesting you might think next time before posting something like this


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## cptrayes (17 August 2014)

julie111 said:



			Just suggesting you might think next time before posting something like this 

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No, sorry, I'm happy with what I did, as are many other people, some of whom have posted just as you have done. I understand that you don't like it, but there's plenty posted on this forum that I don't like, it's just part of forum life.


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## julie111 (17 August 2014)

No worries just my opinion


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## hihosilver (17 August 2014)

The post has been posted and could have been done with a lot more tact-but what we all need to do is help the poor horse and stop these bitchy comments!


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## Pigeon (17 August 2014)

CPTrayes, I agree with you 100%. I do think this could have been handled more sensitively though :/ It is a subject that needs addressing, that's true, but the phrasing could be more tactful. I'm also really not sure about singling someone out and posting the location of their animal online. I can understand it's emotive and something you feel strongly about, I do too, but I'd have contacted the relevant people first (owner, imho) and then posted a more generalised topic, without singling out an individual.


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## Goldenstar (17 August 2014)

hihosilver said:



			The post has been posted and could have been done with a lot more tact-but what we all need to do is help the poor horse and stop these bitchy comments!
		
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TBH nothing we do or say here has any bearing on the matter .
OP should report the situation to whichever charity she chooses if that is what she wishes to do.
When I reported an old  horse struggling earlier in the summer the RSPCA attended within six hours made the owner call the her own vet and checked up the horse was being medicated later in the week .
The RSPCA rang me three times over the few days I have to say I was impressed.


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## applecart14 (17 August 2014)

Wagtail said:



			We have threads on here complaining about YOs and other liveries, about how badly others keep their horses, badly behaving sharers, people who let their horses get too thin or too fat... the list is never ending. Nothing is said criticising the OPs. I rather think the people attacking the OP in this thread must have personal axes to grind. i.e. for some reason or another, they don't like the OP. I never understand this behaviour on forums. The way people bear grudges just because they may have had a disagreement in the past. A forum is a forum, and the subject of horses is bound to cause disagreements on various issues, but to comment on a thread motivated more by not liking/liking the OP rather than the subject matter itself is just strange, but sadly all too common. Of course there are also people who just like to criticise how other choose to use the forum, the self appointed moderators and other strange behaviours.
		
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I agree.  This happens a lot.


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## hihosilver (17 August 2014)

Goldenstar said:



			TBH nothing we do or say here has any bearing on the matter .
OP should report the situation to whichever charity she chooses if that is what she wishes to do.
When I reported an old  horse struggling earlier in the summer the RSPCA attended within six hours made the owner call the her own vet and checked up the horse was being medicated later in the week .
The RSPCA rang me three times over the few days I have to say I was impressed.
		
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I must say I agree I reported a horse left in a field that was very thin and starving. People had told livery owners but all they said was that owner was in hospital with a heart attack. I phoned the RSPCA not expecting a response but they came and horse was moved so someone could look after it until owner was better. I was glad I phoned.


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## Peregrine Falcon (17 August 2014)

http://www.bhs.org.uk/welfare-and-care/reporting-horses-in-distress

http://www.bhs.org.uk/welfare-and-care/euthanasia-and-friends-at-the-end

Perhaps these maybe of help to others who find themselves in similar situations


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## Mongoose11 (17 August 2014)

cptrayes said:



			Whw' s phone line is not open until Monday, as I have already stated.

Can you please explain what you mean by the expression 'lord it up'?  And how my posts do that any more than your own do?  And why, if you consider my thread to be attention seeking, you have chosen to give me the very attention that you think I seek?
		
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I think the manner in which you posted was arrogant. It has a nasty tone, but then.....

Never mind. I really must find the UI button but sometimes I like to poke sticks through the bars of your cage *rolls eyes*. The energy with which you continually battle your original stance is mind blowing and I don't mean this thread. 

Are you ever a happy chappy? Maybe you should jump on that little cob of yours and lighten up? After you've called the WHW first thing in the morning, of course.


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## cptrayes (17 August 2014)

Mongoose11 said:



			I think the manner in which you posted was arrogant. It has a nasty tone, but then.....

Never mind. I really must find the UI button but sometimes I like to poke sticks through the bars of your cage *rolls eyes*. The energy with which you continually battle your original stance is mind blowing and I don't mean this thread. 

Are you ever a happy chappy? Maybe you should jump on that little cob of yours and lighten up? After you've called the WHW first thing in the morning, of course.
		
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I think this post says more about you than me.


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## cptrayes (17 August 2014)

While I'm here I'd just like to thank all the people who are pming me with support saying that they don't dare post because they fear they will get attacked if they do, but agree with what I have done. Thanks guys


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## twiggy2 (17 August 2014)

cptrayes said:



			While I'm here I'd just like to thank all the people who are pming me with support saying that they don't dare post because they fear they will get attacked if they do, but agree with what I have done. Thanks guys 

Click to expand...

so yes the faceless bullying


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## ribbons (17 August 2014)

cptrayes said:



			While I'm here I'd just like to thank all the people who are pming me with support saying that they don't dare post because they fear they will get attacked if they do, but agree with what I have done. Thanks guys 

Just looked back over this thread and I can't find a single instance where someone has posted in support of you and them been challenged by those opposed to you, let alone attacked for it, so why would anyone feel to afraid to openly post and resort to singing your praises behind the scenes via pm I wonder.
		
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## cptrayes (17 August 2014)

ribbons said:



			Just looked back over this thread and I can't find a single instance where someone has posted in support of you and them been challenged by those opposed to you, let alone attacked for it, so why would anyone feel to afraid to openly post and resort to singing your praises behind the scenes via pm I wonder.
		
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Well they tell me it is because of posts like those by Mongoose above, highly personal attacks that are nothing to do with the discussion that they don't want to risk by being seen to openly support me. They haven't sung my praises at all, they have simply said that their personal view is that I was right to post.


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## Mongoose11 (17 August 2014)

cptrayes said:



			I think this post says more about you than me.
		
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Right-oh



cptrayes said:



			While I'm here I'd just like to thank all the people who are pming me with support saying that they don't dare post because they fear they will get attacked if they do, but agree with what I have done. Thanks guys 

Click to expand...

Ahhhhh, the countless PMs of support. Nice one &#128521; nobody is attacking anyone and there have been many that have said they agree with you on here. I wonder if a new member will join who just happens to be the mare's owner. No doubt she'll be thanking you for changing her life and helping her to see the light!


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## ribbons (17 August 2014)

Quote from mongoose11

The energy with which you continually battle your original stance is mind blowing and I don't mean this thread. 

I know exactly what you mean mongoose, the determination is incredible.


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## Fun Times (17 August 2014)

Well I have PM'd myself to tell myself I am right as I can be a bit insecure and enjoy receiving messages of support....removes tongue from cheek.


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## Mongoose11 (17 August 2014)

cptrayes said:



			Well they tell me it is because of posts like those by Mongoose, personal attacks that they don't want to risk by being seen to openly support me. They haven't sung my praises at all, they have simply said that their personal view is that I was right to post.
		
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You love the phrase 'personal attack'. You're always using it. You used it when my Ipad did a funny autocorrect with your name. Now me wondering if you are ever happy and suggesting that I found your post arrogant is a 'highly personal attack'. 

Get a grip woman.

Jog on.


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## ribbons (17 August 2014)

Mongoose11 said:



			Right-oh



Ahhhhh, the countless PMs of support. Nice one &#128521; nobody is attacking anyone and there have been many that have said they agree with you on here. I wonder if a new member will join who just happens to be the mare's owner. No doubt she'll be thanking you for changing her life and helping her to see the light!
		
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Don't be daft, they'll do it by pm.


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## Fides (17 August 2014)

I'm with you on this one CPT - there's a farm near me that has had two WHW visits yet still the horses are extremely poor. They look like elderly horses coming out of a bad winter, not healthy young horses in the middle of summer. They have deemed that they are not poor enough to intervene but heaven knows what state they will be in winter  I've even tried reporting them for the ragwort as they are not preventing its spread to my grazing/hay fields. Anything to try and improve the horses lives - but how much do they need to suffer before they get help? And this is a rescue


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## Goldenstar (17 August 2014)

Seriously why would any one fear to support someone .
Sticks and stones and all that.


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## cptrayes (17 August 2014)

ribbons said:



			Quote from mongoose11

The energy with which you continually battle your original stance is mind blowing and I don't mean this thread. 

I know exactly what you mean mongoose, the determination is incredible.
		
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Can I ask you both, though it has sod all to do with this thread, why you expect me to change my opinion about, for example, polo, when nobody has given me any sensible coherent argument to convince me to do so?  Why do you seem to consider it a personality flaw not to accept arguments in which you can see no merit, and neither can others,  but to stick to one's guns? I have modified my opinions many times over the years on this forum, but obviously not on subjects which you hold dear. It seems to me that your problem is simply that you don't like being disagreed with.


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## cobgoblin (17 August 2014)

Can someone please PTS this thread!


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## cptrayes (17 August 2014)

Goldenstar said:



			Seriously why would any one fear to support someone .
Sticks and stones and all that.
		
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You are joking aren't you?  There are many lurkers on this forum who fear to ever write anything. It's like the wild west on this board sometimes


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## cobgoblin (17 August 2014)

BANG!!!


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## Fun Times (17 August 2014)

As I see it, the person with the greatest claim to "personal attack" across the entirety of this thread is probably the horse's owner, although I would say its been more of a "public" than "personal" attack.


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## Red-1 (17 August 2014)

Goldenstar said:



			TBH nothing we do or say here has any bearing on the matter .
OP should report the situation to whichever charity she chooses if that is what she wishes to do.
When I reported an old  horse struggling earlier in the summer the RSPCA attended within six hours made the owner call the her own vet and checked up the horse was being medicated later in the week .
The RSPCA rang me three times over the few days I have to say I was impressed.
		
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hihosilver said:



			I must say I agree I reported a horse left in a field that was very thin and starving. People had told livery owners but all they said was that owner was in hospital with a heart attack. I phoned the RSPCA not expecting a response but they came and horse was moved so someone could look after it until owner was better. I was glad I phoned.
		
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That's the way to do it.


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## cptrayes (17 August 2014)

cobgoblin said:



			BANG!!!










.....
		
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## Pearlsasinger (17 August 2014)

julie111 said:



			IMO this is not the place to air views of such a sensitive matter. Opinions are sometimes best kept to ones self, or maybe a quiet word with the owners should be the first port of call?
		
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Can any-one tell me what the forum is for if not to air one's views?


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## Goldenstar (17 August 2014)

cptrayes said:



			You are joking aren't you?  There are many lurkers on this forum who fear to ever write anything. It's like the wild west on this board sometimes [/

No I am not joking if I agree with someone ( or otherwise ) I say so , I do know some people prefer not to post just read I did for awhile when I first started reading the forum.
I am more not less likely to comment if someone is getting duffed up and I agree with them.
I really don't see what there is to fear .
		
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## ribbons (17 August 2014)

I don't like being disagreed with !!!

That's rich.

To be honest, I probably don't disagree with you about the mare (I say probably because I haven't seen it)
The only opinion I have given on this thread is about your way of dealing with it, which is so arrogant its breathtaking. "Oy you" for gods sake.
But I'm not surprised as most of your posts are sent from a highly elevated position.


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## JFTDWS (17 August 2014)

Oh well, because I'm not a cowardy custard, and I'm not really worried about any attempts at "personal attacks" on t'internet, I'm publically voicing my support for mongoose - and no, that is not solely based on the OP's posting history...



Goldenstar said:



			I am extremely concerned that there are people posting who don't think a horse not weight bearing on a limb because of arthritis is not an welfare issue because the horse is 'loved'
I have never heard such rubbish.
		
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Just for the record, the use of "if" in my previous post, relating to whether the horse is a welfare case or not reflects solely in my cynicism towards the OP's assessment of situations, rather than the above.  Not having seen the horse myself, or having the testimony of a professional to go on, I'm going to stand by that wording


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## Goldenstar (17 August 2014)

Pearlsasinger said:



			Can any-one tell me what the forum is for if not to air one's views?
		
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To prevent people doing house work of course.


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## Goldenstar (17 August 2014)

JFTD said:



			Oh well, because I'm not a cowardy custard, and I'm not really worried about any attempts at "personal attacks" on t'internet, I'm publically voicing my support for mongoose - and no, that is not solely based on the OP's posting history...



Just for the record, the use of "if" in my previous post, relating to whether the horse is a welfare case or not reflects solely in my cynicism towards the OP's assessment of situations, rather than the above.  Not having seen the horse myself, or having the testimony of a professional to go on, I'm going to stand by that wording 

Click to expand...

 I was not  thinking about your post btw not that it matters.


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## cptrayes (17 August 2014)

Goldenstar said:



			To prevent people doing house work of course.
		
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What's this thing you call 'housework'?


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## YorksG (17 August 2014)

I often wonder why some people on this forum believe that they should be able to dictate what other people post about!  If they had their way the forum would be a pointless place, where only the pink and fluffy were able to post, apart from a few who could astonish us with their intelect and abilities!


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## Goldenstar (17 August 2014)

It's ground hog day with mops .


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## cptrayes (17 August 2014)

Goldenstar said:



			It's ground hog day with mops .
		
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Brilliant!!!!

(One of my favourite films!)


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## Goldenstar (17 August 2014)

cptrayes said:



			What's this thing you can 'housework'?  

Click to expand...

It's sort of like ground hog day with mops .


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## JFTDWS (17 August 2014)

I do love a bit of irony in people's posting histories.  I have a long memory and see so much of it on here


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## JFTDWS (17 August 2014)

Goldenstar said:



			I was not  thinking about your post btw not that it matters.
		
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Just thought I'd clarify that I'm some psycho loony who believes it's acceptable to leave a horse in that condition.  I find it absolutely abhorrent and would happily call the authorities if I observed a situation I judged to fit that description


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## cptrayes (17 August 2014)

Goldenstar said:



			It's sort of like ground hog day with mops .
		
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Brilliant!!!!!

(It's one of my favourite films!)


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## Wagtail (17 August 2014)

YorksG said:



			I often wonder why some people on this forum believe that they should be able to dictate what other people post about!  If they had their way the forum would be a pointless place, where only the pink and fluffy were able to post, apart from a few who could astonish us with their intelect and abilities!
		
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*like*


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## ribbons (17 August 2014)

YorksG said:



			I often wonder why some people on this forum believe that they should be able to dictate what other people post about!  If they had their way the forum would be a pointless place, where only the pink and fluffy were able to post, apart from a few who could astonish us with their intelect and abilities!
		
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I'm hoping you don't mean me here, but in case you do, allow me to clarify my position.

I would hate any censorship on posting. I want folk to post what they like. I also want to post what I like.
Just because I find op's attitude, arrogance and posting style so dictatorial doesn't mean I want her to stop.
 On the contrary, I see a post from cpt, banging her drum, listening to nothing unless it echoes her own opinion, and I think, ahhh HHO and its madness, lets pour a drink and settle down for a laugh.


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## YorksG (17 August 2014)

ribbons said:



			I'm hoping you don't mean me here, but in case you do, allow me to clarify my position.

I would hate any censorship on posting. I want folk to post what they like. I also want to post what I like.
Just because I find op's attitude, arrogance and posting style so dictatorial doesn't mean I want her to stop.
 On the contrary, I see a post from cpt, banging her drum, listening to nothing unless it echoes her own opinion, and I think, ahhh HHO and its madness, lets pour a drink and settle down for a laugh.
		
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It was a general observation.
Did I see irony mentioned above .......


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## Echo Bravo (17 August 2014)

Yahoo Mongoose, got my vote any day.


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## cptrayes (17 August 2014)

ribbons said:



			Just because I find op's attitude, arrogance and posting style so dictatorial doesn't mean I want her to stop.
On the contrary, On the contrary, I see a post from cpt, banging her drum, listening to nothing unless it echoes her own opinion, and I think, ahhh HHO and its madness, lets pour a drink and settle down for a laugh.
		
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Have I missed something here?  Wasn't I being criticised by you for publicly criticising an unidentified person about a welfare case?

And yet you feel this level of personal criticism is perfectly acceptable just because you don't personally like my use of English and some of my opinions?

Go figure


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## Goldenstar (17 August 2014)

JFTD said:



			Just thought I'd clarify that I'm some psycho loony who believes it's acceptable to leave a horse in that condition.  I find it absolutely abhorrent and would happily call the authorities if I observed a situation I judged to fit that description 

Click to expand...

You are  not a psycho loony another of my forum preconceptions shattered.


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## Echo Bravo (17 August 2014)

But Cptrayes you do love to bang your drum, quiet a lot in fact.


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## JFTDWS (17 August 2014)

Goldenstar said:



			You are  not a psycho loony another of my forum preconceptions shattered.
		
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Gosh darn it, you got me...

But then, we're ALL mad here - I'm mad, you're mad...  How do I know you're mad?  You must be, or you wouldn't have come here!

(And yes, I am channelling my inner Cheshire Cat here!)


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## cptrayes (17 August 2014)

Echo Bravo said:



			Yahoo Mongoose, got my vote any day. 

Click to expand...

Remind me EB, was it racing or hunting that you don't like my opinions on?  Both, I think?


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## Flame_ (17 August 2014)

cptrayes said:



			Have I missed something here?  Wasn't I being criticised by you for publicly criticising an unidentified person about a welfare case?

And yet you feel this level of personal criticism is perfectly acceptable just because you don't personally like my use of English and some of my opinions?

Go figure
		
Click to expand...

Well you have put your opinions and posting style out on this platform for people to judge and challenge and argue against. The horse's owners haven't, so its really not the same. 

However if the horse is in the condition you say then personally I'm all for you directly confronting the owners about it and tbh the message is as likely to reach them from HHO as any other way so job done.


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## ChesnutsRoasting (17 August 2014)

Jeez, are we into voting for our chosen candidate now? How juvenile. Posters with grudges & their not so hidden agendas - utter nonsense. I don't remember (age-related & actually having a life) who I have or have not had a tiff with. Hot Fuzz is on at 9.00. Pour yourselves a drink, have a chuckle & reeeeelax.


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## Holzdweaver (17 August 2014)

Probably will be viewed as being old fashioned but what about sending them a letter? If you drive past, you would know the address and just send a nicely worded letter explaining your concerns about the mare, maybe quote the rspca's standard five welfare rules and that although she is well loved and obviously cherished, they are in fact breaching one of those rules by allowing her to be in pain and immobile.


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## cptrayes (17 August 2014)

Echo Bravo said:



			But Cptrayes you do love to bang your drum, quiet a lot in fact.  

Click to expand...

I'm a prolific poster in common with a long list of other people. Without us, this forum would die and not produce enough revenues for ipc magazines to continue it.

I try to help people who post about problems, and post about things I care about. I put little that is personal about me on this forum, unlike a lot of other people, but because you disagree with some of my views or the grammar I use to express them, you describe it as banging my drum.

Beats me.


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## cronkmooar (17 August 2014)

JFTD said:



			Really poor taste - call the BHS / WHW if you genuinely believe it is a welfare issue.  I honestly cannot imagine why any "experienced" horse owner would not call the appropriate organisations first, before coming on here to educate the ignorant masses...
		
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Its not very often I agree with JFTD, in fairness more her posting style than anything else, but the above is absolutely spot on and could not be put any better.

CPTrayes, I don't disagree that any animal in such pain should be PTS, but to come on a forum and post the location of anyones horse really is not on


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## Sandstone1 (17 August 2014)

cronkmooar said:



			Its not very often I agree with JFTD, in fairness more her posting style than anything else, but the above is absolutely spot on and could not be put any better.

CPTrayes, I don't disagree that any animal in such pain should be PTS, but to come on a forum and post the location of anyones horse really is not on
		
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Why on earth not just report the poor horse to whw or red wings or bhs or rspca???
What's the point on posting it on here where most likely the owner won't see it?
How would the op like it if someone posted something like it about their horse and gave the location?


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## cronkmooar (17 August 2014)

Elliesmemory1 said:



			How would the op like it if someone posted something like it about their horse and gave the location?
		
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In the not too distant past, a posters IPad did something to the OP's name on a post, and she had a fit because it "was her real name" and demanded an apology over and over again

That should give you some idea!


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## ribbons (17 August 2014)

cptrayes said:



			Have I missed something here?  Wasn't I being criticised by you for publicly criticising an unidentified person about a welfare case?

And yet you feel this level of personal criticism is perfectly acceptable just because you don't personally like my use of English and some of my opinions?

Go figure
		
Click to expand...

Nope, not me. I have not criticised you for criticising the owner of said mare.
I have criticised the holier than thou way you do it. Shouting about it here whist doing absolutely nothing useful about it. I know you said you are going to ring welfare tomorrow, but that was a decision you made after several posts, not your opening intention.
As I said earlier, I would probably agree with you about the mare had I seen it. I just find your displays of expert opinion to much to ignore sometimes, and feel the need to comment. Although mostly I don't bother.


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## cptrayes (17 August 2014)

cronkmooar said:



			In the not too distant past, a posters IPad did something to the OP's name on a post, and she had a fit because it "was her real name" and demanded an apology over and over again

That should give you some idea!
		
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I demanded an apology because I had not had one. The typo, which I had no way of knowing was a typo at first, called me called me crap. If I had made a mistake like that I would have been on my knees grovelling to the person I had inadvertently offended. Mongoose just laughed.


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## cptrayes (17 August 2014)

Elliesmemory1 said:



			How would the op like it if someone posted something like it about their horse and gave the location?
		
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That could not happen. If the horse had been mine I would have had her put down two years ago.


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## cronkmooar (17 August 2014)

cptrayes said:



			I demanded an apology because I had not had one. The typo called me called me crap. If I had made a mistake like that I would have been on my knees grovelling.
		
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Ah didums!


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## JFTDWS (17 August 2014)

cptrayes said:



			That could not happen. If the horse had been mine I would have had her put down two years ago.
		
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But rightly or wrongly, I'm fairly sure other people on here have disputed the welfare basis of some of your previous choices with horses, no?  As I recall, you didn't appreciate them making their thoughts known on here, because you didn't agree with them.  I imagine the owner of this horse has a similar mentality and will be similarly receptive to your comments...


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## Mongoose11 (17 August 2014)

cptrayes said:



			I demanded an apology because I had not had one. The typo, which I had no way of knowing was a typo at first, called me called me crap. If I had made a mistake like that I would have been on my knees grovelling to the person I had inadvertently offended. Mongoose just laughed.
		
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Did I? Were you in my lounge with me? I think I remember writing something like 'oh come on, you can see the funny side' or something like that. Why don't you run along and check?

My iPad corrected your username to CRAPTRAYS. I'm not responsible for its actions in the case of autocorrect and so I did not apologise.


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## cptrayes (17 August 2014)

JFTD said:



			But rightly or wrongly, I'm fairly sure other people on here have disputed the welfare basis of some of your previous choices with horses, no?  As I recall, you didn't appreciate them making their thoughts known on here, because you didn't agree with them.  I imagine the owner of this horse has a similar mentality and will be similarly receptive to your comments...
		
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I do not try to stop people posting their opinions. I am not obliged to agree with them. All welfare decisions that people on this thread have disagreed with were supported by my vet.


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## Mongoose11 (17 August 2014)

JFTD said:



			But rightly or wrongly, I'm fairly sure other people on here have disputed the welfare basis of some of your previous choices with horses, no?  As I recall, you didn't appreciate them making their thoughts known on here, because you didn't agree with them.  I imagine the owner of this horse has a similar mentality and will be similarly receptive to your comments...
		
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This rings a bell, so does OP asking those who disagree not to bother posting on her thread...

Sorry to quote you above JFTD. I don't like to make it appear gang like.


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## cptrayes (17 August 2014)

Mongoose11 said:



			Did I? Were you in my lounge with me? I think I remember writing something like 'oh come on, you can see the funny side' or something like that. Why don't you run along and check?

My iPad corrected your username to CRAPTRAYS. I'm not responsible for its actions in the case of autocorrect and so I did not apologise.
		
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Yes, you posted smiley symbols and asked me if I could not see the funny side. It took me several attempts to get your very insincere apology, which I still had the grace to give you an unqualified thank you for.

You aren't responsible for what you press 'post reply' on? Don't make me laugh, please.


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## Goldenstar (17 August 2014)

Mongoose11 said:



			Did I? Were you in my lounge with me? I think I remember writing something like 'oh come on, you can see the funny side' or something like that. Why don't you run along and check?

My iPad corrected your username to CRAPTRAYS. I'm not responsible for its actions in the case of autocorrect and so I did not apologise.
		
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Well although I confess that did make me laugh IMO you should have said sorry that was not pleasant .I have got into bother with autocorrect but never as 'good ' a one as that.


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## cptrayes (17 August 2014)

If just like to thank you all for bumping this thread endlessly folks. The welfare issue of old horses left to fall to pieces in fields is certainly on the map now


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## JFTDWS (17 August 2014)

Mongoose11 said:



			This rings a bell, so does OP asking those who disagree not to bother posting on her thread...

Sorry to quote you above JFTD. I don't like to make it appear gang like.
		
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Ah yes, we're ganging up now of course...  I was starting to wonder if I'd invented that memory


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## Goldenstar (17 August 2014)

cptrayes said:



			If just like to thank you all for bumping this thread endlessly folks. The welfare issue of old horses left to fall to pieces in fields is certainly on the map now 

Click to expand...

You're welcome .


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## Mongoose11 (17 August 2014)

cptrayes said:



			Yes, you posted smiley symbols and asked me if I could not see the funny side. It took me several attempts to get your very insincere apology, which I still had the grace to give you an unqualified thank you for.

You aren't responsible for what you press 'post reply' on? Don't make me laugh, please.
		
Click to expand...

You're changing the goalposts. I said I wasn't responsible for the iPads autocorrect. I am entirely responsible for pressing 'post reply' and so it was my proofing that failed me.


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## ChesnutsRoasting (17 August 2014)

Mongoose11 said:



			Did I? Were you in my lounge with me? I think I remember writing something like 'oh come on, you can see the funny side' or something like that. Why don't you run along and check?

My iPad corrected your username to CRAPTRAYS. I'm not responsible for its actions in the case of autocorrect and so I did not apologise.
		
Click to expand...

Steve Jobs would be turning in his grave (RIP) Craptrayes - since when was that a recognised word. Mongoose, your IPad is having a breakdown


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## Noodles_3 (17 August 2014)

Op please let us know the outcome of the welfare call you are making tomorrow!

Mongoose - crikey im guilty of this all the time! My ipad will change innocent words into something outrageous and then it's too late after you've pressed send! To be fair, I would of just laughed it off because it's not really your fault re auto correct...


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## bonny (17 August 2014)

cptrayes said:



			If just like to thank you all for bumping this thread endlessly folks. The welfare issue of old horses left to fall to pieces in fields is certainly on the map now 

Click to expand...

I doubt anyone reading this is thinking about the welfare of old horses and if they are better off dead.....the whole thread is now about you, which I think was the idea in the first place. I appreciate you'll tell me that I'm wrong.


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## cptrayes (17 August 2014)

Mongoose11 said:



			You're changing the goalposts. I said I wasn't responsible for the iPads autocorrect. I am entirely responsible for pressing 'post reply' and so it was my proofing that failed me.
		
Click to expand...



Bump


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## Fun Times (17 August 2014)

Morongoose. There. Called her a moron and a goose all in one go (no offence to morons or geese). And I did it intentionally. No crying now MG, take it like a man.


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## cronkmooar (17 August 2014)

cptrayes said:



			Yes, you posted smiley symbols and asked me if I could not see the funny side. It took me several attempts to get your very insincere apology, which I still had the grace to give you an unqualified thank you for.

.
		
Click to expand...

You didn't just want an apology, you wanted a kidney chucked in as well


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## cptrayes (17 August 2014)

bonny said:



			I doubt anyone reading this is thinking about the welfare of old horses and if they are better off dead.....the whole thread is now about you, which I think was the idea in the first place. I appreciate you'll tell me that I'm wrong.
		
Click to expand...


Priceless!!!!!

I start a thread about a horse on a horse forum. Other people turn it into an extensive critique of me, and you think

I

am to blame for that?

You couldn't make it up!


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## Mongoose11 (17 August 2014)

blazingsaddles said:



			Steve Jobs would be turning in his grave (RIP) Craptrayes - since when was that a recognised word. Mongoose, your IPad is having a breakdown
		
Click to expand...

To be honest I think it is because I had recently been looking into the possibility of training my mother's dog to use a litter tray. I had favourited a link which used the word 'craptray'. It's the only thing I can think of? I'm no computer wizard. 

Then there's always the argument that I did it on purpose and this is all a ruse...


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## cptrayes (17 August 2014)

cronkmooar said:



			You didn't just want an apology, you wanted a kidney chucked in as well
		
Click to expand...

No, I wanted an apology. The word sorry. And as soon as I got it, even though it was clearly insincere, I said thank you, and only that, and the thread moved on. If only this one would!


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## ChesnutsRoasting (17 August 2014)

Mongoose11 said:



			To be honest I think it is because I had recently been looking into the possibility of training my mother's dog to use a litter tray. I had favourited a link which used the word 'craptray'. It's the only thing I can think of? I'm no computer wizard. 

Then there's always the argument that I did it on purpose and this is all a ruse...
		
Click to expand...

Litter tray would have been more productive...just a suggestion....


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## JFTDWS (17 August 2014)

Mongoose11 said:



			Then there's always the argument that I did it on purpose and this is all a ruse...
		
Click to expand...

I'm chosing to believe this...


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## Mongoose11 (17 August 2014)

Fun Times said:



			Morongoose. There. Called her a moron and a goose all in one go (no offence to morons or geese). And I did it intentionally. No crying now MG, take it like a man.
		
Click to expand...

 Brilliant! Oh CPT, why didn't you think of that? That's DID make me laugh.


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## Wagtail (17 August 2014)

This thread is hilarious!

ETA (not referring to the original post)


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## Mongoose11 (17 August 2014)

blazingsaddles said:



			Litter tray would have been more productive...just a suggestion....
		
Click to expand...

You must really think I am a MoronGoose, read my post again. I favourited a link which used the word Craptray. I wasn't searching using that word.


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## cronkmooar (17 August 2014)

cptrayes said:



			No, I wanted an apology. The word sorry. And as soon as I got it, even though it was clearly insincere, I sawd thank you, and only that.
		
Click to expand...

Another example of you always being right ...  Frankly it was pathetic


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## Echo Bravo (17 August 2014)

Actually you haven't put it on the map at all, not all horses out in the fields are old or ill. I have a youngster with a slipping stifle, most of the time he's fine, just now and then he drags his hindleg for a few strides. If someone like you came on and blasted on about a horse dragging it's leg and shouldn't the owner have it put down etcetra!!!! Not knowing the full facts of the horse and it's care.


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## Mongoose11 (17 August 2014)

JFTD said:



			I'm chosing to believe this... 

Click to expand...

You would.


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## ChesnutsRoasting (17 August 2014)

Wagtail said:



			This thread is hilarious!
		
Click to expand...

Not as entertaining as Hot Fuzz (9.00) though. Its all so *******ing pathetic, don't you think?


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## cptrayes (17 August 2014)

Echo Bravo said:



			Actually you haven't put it on the map at all, not all horses out in the fields are old or ill. I have a youngster with a slipping stifle, most of the time he's fine, just now and then he drags his hindleg for a few strides. If someone like you came on and blasted on about a horse dragging it's leg and shouldn't the owner have it put down etcetra!!!! Not knowing the full facts of the horse and it's care.
		
Click to expand...

But I would not have done that. I've have seen this mare once or twice a month for the last fifteen years, first breeding foals and then retired and fading more each winter 

It is you who have made the assumptions about me here, not me about this horse.


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## Dave's Mam (17 August 2014)

Surely giving the location of the horse breaches legal rights.


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## cptrayes (17 August 2014)

blazingsaddles said:



			Not as entertaining as Hot Fuzz (9.00) though. Its all so *******ing pathetic, don't you think?
		
Click to expand...

We watched Hot Fuzz on Friday. Great film!  We're on Moulin Rouge at eight instead.


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## Dave's Mam (17 August 2014)

There could be a camp of PTS enforcers at the gate in the morning, no matter what.


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## bonny (17 August 2014)

cptrayes said:



			But I would not have done that. Iv have seen this mare for the last fifteen years, breeding foals and then retired and fading more each winter 

Click to expand...

Serious question now and coming back to the start of the thread, has anyone else seen this mare in the last 3 years ? She's obviously easily visible from the road and I assume others drive/walk past ? A horse as lame as you say for such a long time would surely attract others attention ?


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## Goldenstar (17 August 2014)

Camilla's Aunty Em said:



			Surely giving the location of the horse breaches legal rights.
		
Click to expand...

Eh last time I looked it was ok for the BBC to film the police exercising a warrant on a celebrities house I think it's ok to say horse in a field at x .


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## Sandstone1 (17 August 2014)

cptrayes said:



			But I would not have done that. I've have seen this mare once or twice a month for the last fifteen years, first breeding foals and then retired and fading more each winter 

It is you who have made the assumptions about me here, not me about this horse.
		
Click to expand...

 If the poor horse is suffering and you have watched her go down hill for 15 years why have you not reported it before?


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## ChesnutsRoasting (17 August 2014)

Mongoose11 said:



			You must really think I am a MoronGoose, read my post again. I favourited a link which used the word Craptray. I wasn't searching using that word.
		
Click to expand...

I make no such assumptions. But why anyone with at least half a braincell would "favourite" such a link, is puzzling. Rather like favouriting 
a crapper in regards to a standard loo.


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## cronkmooar (17 August 2014)

Camilla's Aunty Em said:



			Surely giving the location of the horse breaches legal rights.
		
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You would certainly think it breaches forum T&C's


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## cptrayes (17 August 2014)

Camilla's Aunty Em said:



			Surely giving the location of the horse breaches legal rights.
		
Click to expand...

So tell me which farm on that very long road and several others leading to the same place, where most of them keep horses, this is? And no, it doesn't breach anyone's rights, the horse is in plain view from the road.


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## cptrayes (17 August 2014)

cronkmooar said:



			You would certainly think it breaches forum T&C's
		
Click to expand...

No more than the hundreds of posts other people make about horses, dogs, livery yards, yard owners, other liveries, etc etc

How on earth would this forum keep going if this thread breached t&cs?


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## Mongoose11 (17 August 2014)

blazingsaddles said:



			I make no such assumptions. But why anyone with at least half a braincell would "favourite" such a link, is puzzling. Rather like favouriting 
a crapper in regards to a standard loo.
		
Click to expand...

Oh goodness, I feel I must explain. The link was a forum page where some doggy type people were talking about training their elderly dogs to use a litter tray. One poster was consistently referring to it as a 'craptray'. Does that clear things up? The thread was actually quite helpful which is why I favourited the link, it allowed me to return to it.

I think it might have even easier for me to say I typed it on purpose.


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## cptrayes (17 August 2014)

Elliesmemory1 said:



			If the poor horse is suffering and you have watched her go down hill for 15 years why have you not reported it before?
		
Click to expand...

Maybe you could read the thread before you comment, as this has already been covered.  Or even the one post? Which in no way says she has been a welfare case for fifteen years.


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## cronkmooar (17 August 2014)

cptrayes said:



			No more than the hundreds of posts other people make about horses, dogs, livery yards, yard owners, other liveries, etc etc

How on earth would this forum keep going if this thread breached t&cs?
		
Click to expand...

Is there anything you are not an expert on and 100% right about all the time?  Just out of interest

Anyone who has to deal with you IRL has my commiserations


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## Dave's Mam (17 August 2014)

Ok.  Good point, made in a bad way by OP.  Line drawn & I'm out.


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## ChesnutsRoasting (17 August 2014)

Mongoose11 said:



			Oh goodness, I feel I must explain. The link was a forum page where some doggy type people were talking about training their elderly dogs to use a litter tray. One poster was consistently referring to it as a 'craptray'. Does that clear things up? The thread was actually quite helpful which is why I favourited the link, it allowed me to return to it.

I think it might have even easier for me to say I typed it on purpose.
		
Click to expand...

And honest.


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## cronkmooar (17 August 2014)

Mongoose11 said:



			I think it might have even easier for me to say I typed it on purpose.
		
Click to expand...

Personally, at the time I really hoped you had


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## cptrayes (17 August 2014)

bonny said:



			Serious question now and coming back to the start of the thread, has anyone else seen this mare in the last 3 years ? She's obviously easily visible from the road and I assume others drive/walk past ? A horse as lame as you say for such a long time would surely attract others attention ?
		
Click to expand...

Bonny, how long have I said she has been lame for?   It is only this time that I have felt justified in getting really upset about it, since she was not properly bearing weight on one front leg when I went past on my way out, or two hours later on my way back.


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## Mongoose11 (17 August 2014)

blazingsaddles said:



			Well, Craptray, Craptrayes, shittytrays, pootray, turdtrayes, shittrayes (my personal favourite) at least you know your foe now.
		
Click to expand...

Why would you do that? I'm not sure CPT will appreciate it... (Genuine, but I'm sure it won't be taken in that way).


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## cptrayes (17 August 2014)

How infantile.


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## cronkmooar (17 August 2014)

cptrayes said:



			Bonny, how long have I said she has been lame for?   It is only this time that I have felt justified in getting really upset about it, since she was not properly bearing weight on one front leg when I went past on my way out, or two hours later on my way back.
		
Click to expand...

So, the horse has not been on three legs other than today.

Now I'm no vet, and obviously not as experienced or knowledgeable as you, but sudden non weight bearing on one leg ... have you even considered it might be an abscess?


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## AmandaMT (17 August 2014)

zigzag said:



			The OP is great at giving advice and getting on her high horse on what people should and shouldn't do, but doesn't take advice on the care of her horses ... even when several people state what they would do, but she knows best...
		
Click to expand...

Zigzag you are not a fan of OP then?


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## cronkmooar (17 August 2014)

AmandaMT said:



			Zigzag you are not a fan of OP then?
		
Click to expand...

Is anyone?


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## ester (17 August 2014)

cptrayes said:



			I do not try to stop people posting their opinions. I am not obliged to agree with them. All welfare decisions that people on this thread have disagreed with were supported by my vet.
		
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But do you know for certain that there is no vet involved in the horse's care currently?


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## Sandstone1 (17 August 2014)

cptrayes said:



			Maybe you could read the thread before you comment, as this has already been covered.  Or even the one post? Which in no way says she has been a welfare case for fifteen years.
		
Click to expand...

You say she's gone down hill each winter, 3 years or 15 years, whatever.
I would, in your shoes simply report my concerns to a welfare organisation. I have done so in the past.
I would never criticise anyone for being concerned about a animals welfare.
I just don't get why, if you have watched this mare for so long you choose,instead of doing the obvious thing you wait until a weekend when some welfare charity phone lines are closed to bring it up on here.
Fair enough the mare may have suddenly got worse, in which case ring the rspca or contact the owner
Maybe this is a very much loved animal whose owner needs help to see that it's time to let go.
Whatever, it's not helping the horse to post on here rather than do something.


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## ChesnutsRoasting (17 August 2014)

Mongoose11 said:



			Why would you do that? I'm not sure CPT will appreciate it....
		
Click to expand...

I aint looking for appreciation. As my avatar name implies, most of this chat is BS. Folks that have never met in RL getting the hump with each other, holding grudges, scoring points - i'd probably like most of you in RL though there are a few posters that I wouldn't piss on - kidding!!!!


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## charlie76 (17 August 2014)

If she is non weight bearing all of a sudden then perhaps it isn't arthritis, perhaps she has a totally separate issue , in which case a mention to the owner might be a good idea rather than a cryptic message on here which they prob won't even see. Horse with arthritis don't ,suddenly , become bon weight bearing. If she is suddenly so bad you feel the need to comment then I think its safe to assume this is something else. If its not sudden then why haven't you done something sooner? 

I have been on the recieving end of a cryptic post and to be honest its not pleasant, fortunately I am a bigger person and let it wash over me but other may be genuinely upset by this kind of post.


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## AmandaMT (17 August 2014)

cronkmooar said:



			Is anyone?
		
Click to expand...

 OP has a way of upsetting people that is for sure.


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## Wagtail (17 August 2014)

blazingsaddles said:



			Not as entertaining as Hot Fuzz (9.00) though. Its all so *******ing pathetic, don't you think?
		
Click to expand...

Hot fuzz is great but as I've seen it many times we are watching 'Loan Survivor' tonight (on dvd). It's a bit serious though.


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## cptrayes (17 August 2014)

Duplicate


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## cptrayes (17 August 2014)

cronkmooar said:



			So, the horse has not been on three legs other than today.

Now I'm no vet, and obviously not as experienced or knowledgeable as you, but sudden non weight bearing on one leg ... have you even considered it might be an abscess?
		
Click to expand...

No, I didn't, and I don't think it matters. The horse has lumps on her knees the size of at least  half a tennis ball. They have been getting that way gradually for two or three years. She hadn't been able to lock out her knees fully for two years. The leg with the knee with the bigger lumps has been being pushed out in front of her for quite a few months but yesterday it was extreme. Until now, I assumed the mare was buted and that it was none of my business of she was mechanically unsound. Yesterday, she looked an unhappy horses in pain and I will report it tomorrow.

meanwhile I beg anyone with an old retired horse to get someone who won't give a damn about upsetting you to review your house on a regular basis and tell you the truth. It is to say to miss something that happens by degrees, I did it myself when a livery yard starved my horse when I was a novice owner.


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## ChesnutsRoasting (17 August 2014)

Wagtail said:



			Hot fuzz is great but as I've seen it many times we are watching 'Loan Survivor' tonight (on dvd). It's a bit serious though.[/

Haven't heard of that one. Whats it about?
		
Click to expand...


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## AmandaMT (17 August 2014)

OP there is not any need to keep saying you are going to report the owner, we have got that already. As other members have said though you could have put this thread much kinder.


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## cronkmooar (17 August 2014)

cptrayes said:



			No, I didn't, and I don't think it matters. The horse has lumps on her knees the size of at least  half a tennis ball. They have been getting that way gradually for two or three years. She hadn't been able to lock out her knees fully for two years. The leg with the knee with the bigger lumps has been breakfast been being pushed out in front of her for quite a few months but yesterday it was extreme. Until now, I assumed the mare was bred and that it was none of my business of she was mechanically unsound. Yesterday, she looked an unhappy horses in pain and I will report it tomorrow.

meanwhile I beg anyone with an old retired horse to get someone who won't give a damn about upsetting you to review your house on a regular basis and tell you the truth. It is to say to miss something that happens by degrees, I did it myself when a livery yard starrved my horse when I was a novice owner.
		
Click to expand...

You don't think it matters!

So basically, whilst the horse has lumpy joints you have noticed it unhappy yesterday and on three legs today over a two hour period.

This horse could very well have an abscess and you have chosen to come on this forum and demand that a someone PTS their animal, that could very well be under veterinary care for its joints.

You are a despicable individual and I hope karma comes and bites you on the arse.


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## Goldenstar (17 August 2014)

ester said:



			But do you know for certain that there is no vet involved in the horse's care currently?
		
Click to expand...

Obviously Op does not know but if OP was to chose to ring one of the welfare charities and they attended no harm would be done , it happens all the time welfare officers call to horses under treatment all that's wasted is a little time .
I have called on horses locked in sheds ( box rest ) horses in blindfolds ( fly masks )ponies being starved ( in fatty paddocks ) tiny horse in with a big horse ( a foal , I joke not ) .


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## cptrayes (17 August 2014)

AmandaMT said:



			OP there is not any need to keep saying you are going to report the owner, we have got that already. As other members have said though you could have put this thread much kinder.
		
Click to expand...

So you and others can keep repeating that, but I am not allowed to repeat that I will call whw tomorrow?


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## AmandaMT (17 August 2014)

cptrayes said:



			So you and others can keep repeating that, but I am not allowed to repeat that I will call whw tomorrow?
		
Click to expand...

Smile a little OP and stop getting so upset. All everyone would like is that in the future you think a little before starting.


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## cronkmooar (17 August 2014)

cptrayes said:



			The leg with the knee with the bigger lumps has been breakfast been being pushed out in front of her for quite a few months but yesterday it was extreme..
		
Click to expand...

As I said, I'm no expert.  

Perhaps you could educate me and explain what it means when a horses leg has been breakfast? 

Its not a term I am familiar with

Or is this just one of those unfortunate times when technology lets you down and substitutes a word?


----------



## ChesnutsRoasting (17 August 2014)

ester said:



			But do you know for certain that there is no vet involved in the horse's care currently?
		
Click to expand...

A vet may well be involved. Advice given etc. I very much doubt a vet will take official action against a non-compliant owner - they do pay their wages afterall.


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## ChesnutsRoasting (17 August 2014)

AmandaMT said:



			Smile a little OP and stop getting so upset. All everyone would like is that in the future you think a little before starting.
		
Click to expand...

How patronising.


----------



## JFTDWS (17 August 2014)

cronkmooar said:



			You are a despicable individual and I hope karma comes and bites you on the arse.
		
Click to expand...

And you don't like the way I post?


----------



## Red-1 (17 August 2014)

cronkmooar said:



			As I said, I'm no expert.  

Perhaps you could educate me and explain what it means when a horses leg has been breakfast? 

Its not a term I am familiar with

Or is this just one of those unfortunate times when technology lets you down and substitutes a word?
		
Click to expand...

Ooops!


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## cronkmooar (17 August 2014)

blazingsaddles said:



			How patronising.
		
Click to expand...

But kind of hits the nail on the head


----------



## cronkmooar (17 August 2014)

JFTD said:



			And you don't like the way I post? 

Click to expand...

Touche


----------



## ChesnutsRoasting (17 August 2014)

cronkmooar said:



			But kind of hits the nail on the head
		
Click to expand...

That is a matter of opinion & one that I disagree with. It's insulting someone with a smile on your face - but nothing that a nail & hammer couldn't resolve.


----------



## AmandaMT (17 August 2014)

cronkmooar said:



			But kind of hits the nail on the head
		
Click to expand...

It was the nicest way I could put it.


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## julie111 (17 August 2014)

Call RSPCA etc in morning and move on. Can't believe this thread is still rumbling on!


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## Wagtail (17 August 2014)

blazingsaddles said:





Wagtail said:



			Hot fuzz is great but as I've seen it many times we are watching 'Loan Survivor' tonight (on dvd). It's a bit serious though.[/

Haven't heard of that one. Whats it about?
		
Click to expand...

Haha just realised I'd written 'loan' instead of 'Lone'.  It's a true story about a group of soldiers who go on a mission in Afghanistan.
		
Click to expand...


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## ChesnutsRoasting (17 August 2014)

Wagtail said:





blazingsaddles said:



			Haha just realised I'd written 'loan' instead of 'Lone'.  It's a true story about a group of soldiers who go on a mission in Afghanistan.
		
Click to expand...

I did wonder! Images involving some poverty afflicted soul running for his life from a gang of vampiric loan sharks!
		
Click to expand...


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## AmandaMT (17 August 2014)

blazingsaddles said:





Wagtail said:



			I did wonder! Images involving some poverty afflicted soul running for his life from a gang of vampiric loan sharks!
		
Click to expand...

 A little humour should go a long way.
		
Click to expand...


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## Wagtail (17 August 2014)

This thread is an enigma. It has shown the ugliest side of HHo but also the wittiest.


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## zigzag (17 August 2014)

AmandaMT said:



			Zigzag you are not a fan of OP then?
		
Click to expand...

Why have you asked me that?


----------



## cobgoblin (17 August 2014)

Wagtail said:





blazingsaddles said:



			Haha just realised I'd written 'loan' instead of 'Lone'.  It's a true story about a group of soldiers who go on a mission in Afghanistan.
		
Click to expand...

I was thinking of watching ' Bitchfest' on HHO live.
		
Click to expand...


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## Honey08 (17 August 2014)

Blinking heck you lot.  I've just done a overnight flight and driven home and there are another 20 pages to read!!


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## Goldenstar (17 August 2014)

Honey08 said:



			Blinking heck you lot.  I've just done a overnight flight and driven home and there are another 20 pages to read!!
		
Click to expand...

Well stop wasting time and get caught up.


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## zigzag (17 August 2014)

Honey08 said:



			Blinking heck you lot.  I've just done a overnight flight and driven home and there are another 20 pages to read!!
		
Click to expand...

You need to adjust your settings, I only have 6 pages


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## Goldenstar (17 August 2014)

zigzag said:



			You need to adjust your settings, I only have 6 pages 

Click to expand...

Cunning


----------



## AmandaMT (17 August 2014)

zigzag said:



			Why have you asked me that?
		
Click to expand...

No offence intended your comment was the first in a long line of other comments aimed at OP. I should have read more before putting a quote on your comment zigzag, sorry about that.


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## flirtygerty (17 August 2014)

bonny said:



			Not your decision though and I think this in very poor taste.....just hope the person concerned doesn't see this.
		
Click to expand...

So you would rather the poor mare suffered for another few years? Sometimes you have to stand up and be counted, last year I risked my tenancy telling my landlord his donkeys and pony needed their feet doing NOW, seeing them struggle on a daily basis, I couldn't ignore it any longer, luckily he was agreeable to my farrier doing them and taking the cost from the rent, too many people turn a blind eye to cruelty


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## flirtygerty (17 August 2014)

bonny said:



			I'm not condemning anyone for caring, I'm condemning her for posting about it in this way and pointing out that we all have different ideas about when to pts and it's for the owner to decide, no one else. If anyone is concerned about a possible welfare case then report it if you think it's called for, but being old and arthritic is not a welfare issue imo if the horse is being looked after properly.
		
Click to expand...

If she's on three legs, she's NOT being looked after is she? I have an arthritic mare myself, with no lumps and bumps, I also am riddled with arthritis myself, with painful, swollen joints, I wouldn't wish the pain on my worst enemy, never mind something I professed to love


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## AmandaMT (17 August 2014)

flirtygerty said:



			So you would rather the poor mare suffered for another few years? Sometimes you have to stand up and be counted, last year I risked my tenancy telling my landlord his donkeys and pony needed their feet doing NOW, seeing them struggle on a daily basis, I couldn't ignore it any longer, luckily he was agreeable to my farrier doing them and taking the cost from the rent, too many people turn a blind eye to cruelty
		
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Not sure that is how Bonny meant it. I read it that Bonny would have preferred OP not put it across so hard on a forum.


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## flirtygerty (17 August 2014)

twiggy2 said:



			this thread is a little saddening-it shows how social media distances people from people in a way that makes bullying faceless and therefore acceptable by many who would not bully when face to face with someone.

just sad
		
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How is this thread bullying? Cptrayes has a valid if belated point, the mare is obviously suffering, being outspoken myself, I would have reported it at least last year, but I'm not noted for my patience and by the way, Cptrayes has always been there for advice, sound advice on feet, she comes across as an experienced, caring owner and I for one am glad she's there to ask


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## Wagtail (17 August 2014)

flirtygerty said:



			How is this thread bullying? Cptrayes has a valid if belated point, the mare is obviously suffering, being outspoken myself, I would have reported it at least last year, but I'm not noted for my patience and by the way, Cptrayes has always been there for advice, sound advice on feet, she comes across as an experienced, caring owner and I for one am glad she's there to ask
		
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I think the bullying refers to that shown against the OP.


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## Mongoose11 (17 August 2014)

Bullying? Disagreeing, bantering, arguing, bitching...but not bullying.


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## Goldenstar (17 August 2014)

Wagtail said:



			I think the bullying refers to that shown against the OP.
		
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That's what I thought , OPs done no bullying on this thread .
I think really it's attempted bullying as I don't think it's "worked".


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## ChesnutsRoasting (17 August 2014)

It's started!!! ITV2


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## ChesnutsRoasting (17 August 2014)

It's started!!! ITV2. Over & out.


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## Wagtail (17 August 2014)

Goldenstar said:



			That's what I thought , OPs done no bullying on this thread .
I think really it's attempted bullying as I don't think it's "worked".
		
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Agree.


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## bonny (17 August 2014)

flirtygerty said:



			How is this thread bullying? Cptrayes has a valid if belated point, the mare is obviously suffering, being outspoken myself, I would have reported it at least last year, but I'm not noted for my patience and by the way, Cptrayes has always been there for advice, sound advice on feet, she comes across as an experienced, caring owner and I for one am glad she's there to ask
		
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Not sure what part of the original post was valid but as you seem to be quoting my answers then I'll explain my reasoning....for a start non of us know if the mare is suffering or not as we haven't seen her, she's by a public road so presumably seen by others, has no one reported her ? She has a caring owner, it's not for us to judge if she's better of dead, I think that question can only be answered by the owner and they have seen fit to let her live, who know's how long ? If anyone who see's her disagrees with that then they can report her but as far as we know that hasn't happened. All we are really doing is talking about an imaginary scenario as we don't know anyone concerned hence I don't think starting a post about someone else's horse is at best in poor taste and certainly isn't doing anything to help the mare, if indeed she does need any help !


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## JFTDWS (17 August 2014)

Mongoose11 said:



			Bullying? Disagreeing, bantering, arguing, bitching...but not bullying.
		
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Indeed.  I must stop agreeing with you or people will think we're a clique


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## Fun Times (17 August 2014)

Flirtygerty, I don't think anyone has argued that nothing should be done about the mare. People have just questionned the use of this thread as the best way of carry OP's message to the owner. 

Eta that i would reiterate the point i made several posts back that if anyone has been "attacked" in my view its the owner. Its one thing to be the subject of neglect proceedings brought by a relevant authority, quite another to have random strangers "yell" at you on the internet to please have your horse pts.


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## AmandaMT (17 August 2014)

Fun Times said:



			Flirtygerty, I don't think anyone has argued that nothing should be done about the mare. People have just questionned the use of this thread as the best way of carrying OP's message to the owner.
		
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If I could find a like button I would click it for this post.


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## RaposadeGengibre (17 August 2014)

blazingsaddles said:



			It's started!!! ITV2
		
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Nah!... There is Mortal Combat on ITV4!


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## Goldenstar (17 August 2014)

And I have some great stuff coming up on eBay .


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## JFTDWS (17 August 2014)

I'm busy...  er...  playing battleships on facebook. No comment!


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## Red-1 (17 August 2014)

Goldenstar said:



			And I have some great stuff coming up on eBay .
		
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Buying or selling???

*opens new tab for ebay*


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## Goldenstar (17 August 2014)

Buying ........again .
I only do buying .


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## AmandaMT (17 August 2014)

Goldenstar said:



			Buying ........again .
I only do buying .
		
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Selling got to expensive for second hand tack when ebay put the charges up.


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## Red-1 (17 August 2014)

Goldenstar said:



			Buying ........again .
I only do buying .
		
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Big tack room???? Ha Ha. 

I LIKE ebay bargains......


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## Ibblebibble (17 August 2014)

cronkmooar said:



			As I said, I'm no expert.  

Perhaps you could educate me and explain what it means when a horses leg has been breakfast? 

Its not a term I am familiar with

Or is this just one of those unfortunate times when technology lets you down and substitutes a word?
		
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favourite post of the day


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## Goldenstar (17 August 2014)

Red-1 said:



			Big tack room???? Ha Ha. 

I LIKE ebay bargains......
		
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No not tack room , I have a passion for used china .


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## ribbons (17 August 2014)

I must stop looking at this thread. Some of the one liners have had me spitting my vino all over the place. I particularly liked JFTD's "and you don't like the way I post"


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## JFTDWS (17 August 2014)

ribbons said:



			I must stop looking at this thread. Some of the one liners have had me spitting my vino all over the place. I particularly liked JFTD's "and you don't like the way I post"
		
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*Takes bow*  At your service and your family's.  

In my defence, I do normally stick to the right of the T&Cs, objectionable though some of my posts may be!


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## brighteyes (17 August 2014)

Fun Times said:



			Perhaps if you want to be certain of getting the specific individual's attention a well worded letter expressing your concerns pinned to the gate would be the more effective and appropriate course of action. Then a separate thread reminding everyone to be vigilant against deterioration in their horse's condition to cover your second and subsequent issue. The approach adopted seems potentially ineffective at best and in poor taste.
		
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I would agree.


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## flirtygerty (17 August 2014)

cronkmooar said:



			Is anyone?
		
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I am, she's always been most helpful to me


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## Echo Bravo (17 August 2014)

Well I liked both Bonny and Mongoose's replies and Flirtgerty you really must read from the start. There are for and against of what CPT posted and I for one think she overstepped the mark. She used the Forum to lambast an unknown horseowner about the condition of stated animal of which none of us know nothing about so what right have any of us to have an opinion on either the animal or owner or would the people for pts like to send photos of their animals to the forum and ask our opinion on their animals.


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## AmandaMT (17 August 2014)

flirtygerty said:



			I am, she's always been most helpful to me
		
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I don't think anyone truthfully dislikes OP, her choice of using the forum in a distasteful way is disliked by some. OP is a long standing member and I am sure she is aware of how quickly members can judge.


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## ILuvCowparsely (17 August 2014)

Wow been out all day and not on here since yesterday and this has 7 pages.

No one actually knows if this horse is being seen by a vet  for this issue or any other, so in fairness I think the facts should be got from the owner first before passing judgement.


 This horse maybe be suffering and if the vets have said no hope, then I would have thought they would have dealt with the matter of PTS with the owner.  If the vet  has not been called or dealing with it, maybe words to the owner or close friend should be the course.  I would think friends or family/ YO/Vet would be in a better position to make the call or pass judgement.  That outsiders who mean well but t do not know the full story and facts.

 The owners will be distressed about their horse anyway, but having strangers report you or get involved, will not help the owner at this difficult time.  What it would do is cause bad blood for the owner knowing some outsider has interfered in the situation.

 I think if the  OP thinks neglect or welfare issue is the case, maybe a quiet word witht he Y/O of this yard would be my first port of call.


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## Fides (17 August 2014)

Lambast - love that word!


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## flirtygerty (17 August 2014)

bonny said:



			Not sure what part of the original post was valid but as you seem to be quoting my answers then I'll explain my reasoning....for a start non of us know if the mare is suffering or not as we haven't seen her, she's by a public road so presumably seen by others, has no one reported her ? She has a caring owner, it's not for us to judge if she's better of dead, I think that question can only be answered by the owner and they have seen fit to let her live, who know's how long ? If anyone who see's her disagrees with that then they can report her but as far as we know that hasn't happened. All we are really doing is talking about an imaginary scenario as we don't know anyone concerned hence I don't think starting a post about someone else's horse is at best in poor taste and certainly isn't doing anything to help the mare, if indeed she does need any help !
		
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Op's point is valid purely because if the mares knees are swollen they will be painful, I know how painful my joints get, the lightest knock has me in tears, so this 'caring' owner needs a wakeup call, if the mare is now on three legs it will make her other front leg even more painful, you try standing with one leg taking your weight, you will find other joints also get affected


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## quirky (17 August 2014)

I know of an ancient horse (30's) and it is pitiful to see how he has deteriorated over the years. He is literally a skeleton held together by skin, absolutely no muscle mass/tone at all.
It breaks my heart to see him.

It has been suggested to the owner that there are kinder things than keeping him alive. She will not have it, it's as if she is blind to his condition.

So OP, although your sentiments are more than likely correct, getting the owners to see is another thing.


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## Fides (17 August 2014)

quirky said:



			I know of an ancient horse (30's) and it is pitiful to see how he has deteriorated over the years. He is literally a skeleton held together by skin, absolutely no muscle mass/tone at all.
It breaks my heart to see him.

It has been suggested to the owner that there are kinder things than keeping him alive. She will not have it, it's as if she is blind to his condition.

So OP, although your sentiments are more than likely correct, getting the owners to see is another thing.
		
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I know of one too - 35yo pony being kept alive by a registered charity. The poor thing has no teeth and lives on slop. Doesn't get enough from this and the past two winters have both been his last. I'm now informed this is. I feel so sorry for the poor mite but the owner of the charity 'cares' for him so won't let him go


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## Goldenstar (17 August 2014)

quirky said:



			I know of an ancient horse (30's) and it is pitiful to see how he has deteriorated over the years. He is literally a skeleton held together by skin, absolutely no muscle mass/tone at all.
It breaks my heart to see him.

It has been suggested to the owner that there are kinder things than keeping him alive. She will not have it, it's as if she is blind to his condition.

So OP, although your sentiments are more than likely correct, getting the owners to see is another thing.
		
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Get the RSPCA to go and take a look .
Or WHW or the BHS .


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## Nancykitt (17 August 2014)

flirtygerty said:



			Op's point is valid purely because if the mares knees are swollen they will be painful, I know how painful my joints get, the lightest knock has me in tears, so this 'caring' owner needs a wakeup call, if the mare is now on three legs it will make her other front leg even more painful, you try standing with one leg taking your weight, you will find other joints also get affected
		
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But, in fairness, we're not 100% sure that this is mare's problem.

And the issue here is not whether or not we should be concerned (which we should), but whether posting a remarkably blunt message on a forum is the best way to get it sorted.

If OP was going to inform a welfare organisation anyway, then fine- but then what is to be gained from posting a message in this way?


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## bonny (17 August 2014)

Think there might just be a teeny chance that we are all going round in circles here folks ......


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## Goldenstar (17 August 2014)

bonny said:



			Think there might just be a teeny chance that we are all going round in circles here folks ......
		
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I love going round in circles I have be training horses to do it for years .


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## bonny (17 August 2014)

Goldenstar said:



			I love going round in circles I have be training horses to do it for years .
		
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Thought you were away buying plates ? Have you bought them already ?


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## Flame_ (17 August 2014)

Is it now a common necessity for charities to go round prodding owners into pts suffering horses? How is that right/ any better or more deserved than a forum message of Oi, take a good, hard look at the state of your own horse. Owners have this responsibility, it shouldn't fall to charities as a matter of course, surely?

ETA, I've not phrased that well at all, but I'm struggling to do any better. I'm not saying the authorities shouldn't be able to step in, just that owners need to man up and not wait until a charity has to turn up to tell them what they need to do!


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## quirky (17 August 2014)

Technically, he is cared for though. He is fed, medicated, rugged when needed.

What could the WHW, BHS or RSPCA do? She doesn't not care for him


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## bonny (17 August 2014)

Flame_ said:



			Is it now a common necessity for charities to go round prodding owners into pts suffering horses? How is that right/ any better or more deserved than a forum message of Oi, take a good, hard look at the state of your own horse. Owners have this responsibility, it shouldn't fall to charities as a matter of course, surely?
		
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Only since we have all become so interested in the fate of every equine in the country ! Welfare organisations must get very fed up with well meaning phone calls about so called neglected horses/pets/farm animals, that's why they need armies of people going round investigating every case.....


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## Cinnamontoast (17 August 2014)

flirtygerty said:



			If she's on three legs, she's NOT being looked after is she? I have an arthritic mare myself, with no lumps and bumps, I also am riddled with arthritis myself, with painful, swollen joints, I wouldn't wish the pain on my worst enemy, never mind something I professed to love
		
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Join the Turmeric User Group on a Facebook. It has changed my life, no word of a lie. I no longer have aches, pains, scraping knees. It's a revolution! I've now got to remember that doing certain moves won't hurt and stop anticipating the pain and taking ages to do stuff. 

This thread is epic and yes, I'm watching Hot Fuzz! :biggrin3:


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## Goldenstar (17 August 2014)

bonny said:



			Thought you were away buying plates ? Have you bought them already ?
		
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Yes plates bought ,melamine ones from the 50ies with a hunting scene on them , lush 
Set of 13 mixed pieces going to be for my new lorry which is due for delivery in September , my life is complete .....until the next time .


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## Goldenstar (17 August 2014)

Flame_ said:



			Is it now a common necessity for charities to go round prodding owners into pts suffering horses? How is that right/ any better or more deserved than a forum message of Oi, take a good, hard look at the state of your own horse. Owners have this responsibility, it shouldn't fall to charities as a matter of course, surely?

ETA, I've not phrased that well at all, but I'm struggling to do any better. I'm not saying the authorities shouldn't be able to step in, just that owners need to man up and not wait until a charity has to turn up to tell them what they need to do!
		
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It's ten years plus now since I was involved and then going around nudging owners of old horses was something we did regularly.


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## Arizahn (17 August 2014)

I'd just like to remind all those who drive that they should of course keep their eyes on the road and their attention on their driving. 

My two cents on the thread...

<by all means ignore the following>

If there is a horse or indeed any animal (or human) that you are concerned may be suffering then obviously report it to your local welfare/social services (humans!) types, surely that goes without saying? Anyhow, it's been said on here numerous times, so no need for me to add to that. Although I have - no apologies offered for contradicting myself btw. Of course, I have no idea if this mare is suffering, or if she even exists. After all, I'm not a vet or an expert, I haven't seen her and the internet is not to be taken at face value. For all I know the OP is making a point about elderly neglected horses using a fictional animal to get more attention to the issue. Or the OP's account has been accessed by a journalist/random troll/crazed stalker/who knows what? I don't even know for sure that the OP exists - again, I don't know them, I have no idea who they are etc. The internet is a bit like Schrodinger's Cat in that regard. I like cats. Am I rambling or just musing now? Does it matter? I don't think it does. I have chocolate anyhow...

<ends opinion re thread>

I'll just stick to reminding everyone to stay safe on the roads.


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## Copperpot (17 August 2014)

And there was me sitting bored at work. Then I discovered this. The thread that keeps on giving!


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## Echo Bravo (17 August 2014)

Well Goldenstar more shame on you for putting horse owners in the situation that they were pushed into having their horses/ponies PTS when they didn't either want too or need too.


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## Echo Bravo (17 August 2014)

Copperpot please give your coppers worth


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## Moomin1 (17 August 2014)

Echo Bravo said:



			Well Goldenstar more shame on you for putting horse owners in the situation that they were pushed into having their horses/ponies PTS when they didn't either want too or need too.
		
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You wouldn't be saying that if you were the one having to deal with emaciated, collapsed, hobbling elderly horses left to essentially suffer until they die, daily. Believe me, many many owners need a push to do the right thing.


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## YorksG (17 August 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			You wouldn't be saying that if you were the one having to deal with emaciated, collapsed, hobbling elderly horses left to essentially suffer until they die, daily. Believe me, many many owners need a push to do the right thing.
		
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Absolutely agree, many elderly animals are kept going long after they should be, from a misplaced bellief in life at all costs.


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## Echo Bravo (17 August 2014)

Yes some owners don't look after their animals, you could also say that about parents and their children. But Goldenstar comes over that we mere mortals cann't look after our aged animals and must be pushed either gently or a bit more forcefully into PTS.


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## Echo Bravo (17 August 2014)

Yorksg, What do you call elderly and should we start looking at the human population for the over 60 ????


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## Goldenstar (17 August 2014)

Echo Bravo said:



			Well Goldenstar more shame on you for putting horse owners in the situation that they were pushed into having their horses/ponies PTS when they didn't either want too or need too.
		
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Spending time nudging owners to call their own vet to advise them and if that advice was that the  time had come ,I feel no shame what so ever about my roll
How the on earth do you know these horses did not need to be put down you where not there .
You don't know anything about them at all .
That you think I should feel shame for the time I spent ,well that just the silliest thing I have heard in a long time .


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## Goldenstar (17 August 2014)

Echo Bravo said:



			Yes some owners don't look after their animals, you could also say that about parents and their children. But Goldenstar comes over that we mere mortals cann't look after our aged animals and must be pushed either gently or a bit more forcefully into PTS. 

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Total nonsense, show when I have said that .


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## YorksG (17 August 2014)

Echo Bravo said:



			Yorksg, What do you call elderly and should we start looking at the human population for the over 60 ???? 

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I am far more concerned about the quality of life for ANY elderly mammal, none should be forced to live in pain for the benefit of others. When my mother was without heartbeat for long enough to sustain brain damage, but was resucitated, my father was offered the option of her being kept physically alive. He said no, having at that point been married to her for over 50 years he knew she would not have wanted that, no matter that he was devastated at her death. Old and ill animals are kept alive when it is not in their best interests, because of selfish owners. Does that answer your question EB?


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## Echo Bravo (17 August 2014)

And neither has Crtrayes over the horse she has gone on about.


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## zigzag (17 August 2014)

Well If I saw a horse on 3 legs in the field, one I would have climbed the fence to check said horse, then second gone to find the owner, if I couldn't find the owner I would call the RSPCA out say a horse was on 3 legs and wait for them to come out (They do seem to come out within the hour if a horse is suffering badly in my experience.  I would not have left the horse there, and come on here and posted about it and phone someone Monday morning. The horse could have a broken leg, how can you tell from just driving past?


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## bonny (17 August 2014)

I think it's safe to say the horse hasn't got a broken leg !


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## Goldenstar (17 August 2014)

I know nothing about the horse OP is talking about the advice I gave was to report to the charity of her choice .
I would give that advice to anyone I would never advise anyone to approach a stranger it's best IMO to leave it to people who have training and experiance in dealing with these things .
Owners of old horses can be prosecuted if their care and veterinary imput is substandard , it's old is not a defence .
I have never seen a owner of an oldie prosecuted personally ,it's always been dealt with by the owners own vet or sometimes by a RSPCA vet .


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## Echo Bravo (17 August 2014)

I'm sorry Yorksg and Goldenstar you both talk complete tosh. If we all listened to you both most owners of animals keep them in a lot of pain/old age because we are all selfish, no we don't, we go by the animal and vets advice. Please don't lump us all in just by a very few and that goes for bad parents as well.


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## zigzag (17 August 2014)

bonny said:



			I think it's safe to say the horse hasn't got a broken leg !
		
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Probably not, but still wouldn't drive past a horse on 3 legs, would at least go and tell the owner... and the OP knows all about the owner so why not call in and say sorry, think your horse has done something as it's on 3 legs?


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## Copperpot (17 August 2014)

Echo Bravo said:



			Copperpot please give your coppers worth

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I'm still giggling at craptray and morongoose


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## Echo Bravo (17 August 2014)

Love you Zigzag for common sense


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## Stacy_W (17 August 2014)

The way the OP has conducted herself from start to finish (where's she gone?) on this thread is not particularly admirable.  It's a contentious issue and I think she knew the thread would become somewhat 'interesting'.  Her initial post was distasteful enough and then continued to goad anyone who showed the audacity to disagree or have an open mind about the horse's condition or circumstances.

One of my horses is due to be put down due to old age very soon (36), and if I stumbled across a thread like this about him, I don't think I'd ever forget it.  

Why didn't you make this a more general post and then do the RIGHT thing and approach and owner directly?


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## Cinnamontoast (17 August 2014)

YorksG said:



			Absolutely agree, many elderly animals are kept going long after they should be, from a misplaced bellief in life at all costs. 

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The bullock at the Hare Krishna temple couldn't get up, he was stuck on his knees for weeks and the police had to go in and force the people to allow in the RSPCA to put it to sleep, because they don't believe in killing animals, of course. I think that was a kindness to PTS the poor animal. Life at all costs may well equal enormous suffering. 

I think we should bring in the Dignitas service in this country, I'm frequently appalled by stories of people who suffer tremendously and want to end it but aren't allowed. Different thread needed!


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## Goldenstar (17 August 2014)

Echo Bravo said:



			I'm sorry Yorksg and Goldenstar you both talk complete tosh. If we all listened to you both most owners of animals keep them in a lot of pain/old age because we are all selfish, no we don't, we go by the animal and vets advice. Please don't lump us all in just by a very few and that goes for bad parents as well. 

Click to expand...

The one talking tosh is you .
I have never ever said that all owners keep old horses because they are selfish .
But many many old horses never see a vet never get pain relief for painful conditions and get a poor level of general care and it's a good thing that there are people who will go and make sure a vet sees them .
Many shall I say most old horses have great owners who care for them I am not in the least interested in them they need no help from outside .


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## ribbons (17 August 2014)

Stacy_W said:



			The way the OP has conducted herself from start to finish (where's she gone?) on this thread is not particularly admirable.  It's a contentious issue and I think she knew the thread would become somewhat 'interesting'.  Her initial post was distasteful enough and then continued to goad anyone who showed the audacity to disagree or have an open mind about the horse's condition or circumstances.

One of my horses is due to be put down due to old age very soon (36), and if I stumbled across a thread like this about him, I don't think I'd ever forget it.  

Why didn't you make this a more general post and then do the RIGHT thing and approach and owner directly?
		
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Because its cptrayes.


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## Echo Bravo (17 August 2014)

Sorry Goldenstar but that is how I read you replies. My old horses have had a good life and been PTS at home, perhaps you should look to the travellers and their poor bloody animals, as they never see a vet or level of care and I know I bought a poor foal off them he's the one with a slipping stifle.


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## Pearlsasinger (17 August 2014)

zigzag said:



			Probably not, but still wouldn't drive past a horse on 3 legs, would at least go and tell the owner... and the OP knows all about the owner so why not call in and say sorry, think your horse has done something as it's on 3 legs?
		
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I would love to know how passers-by know who the horses they see from the road belong to, whether the horse lives on the owner's land or at livery or where the owner lives.  I pass many horses at various times, except for my neighbours, I have no idea where the owner of those horses lives, or even how to get to the entrance of the yard that the horses are on at that time.  Apart from the inadvisability of doing so, I wouldn't know where to start to be able to approach the owner of many of them.


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## Goldenstar (17 August 2014)

Echo Bravo said:



			Sorry Goldenstar but that is how I read you replies. My old horses have had a good life and been PTS at home, perhaps you should look to the travellers and their poor bloody animals, as they never see a vet or level of care and I know I bought a poor foal off them he's the one with a slipping stifle. 

Click to expand...

I have spent a lot of time with travellers horses thank you very much .
I don't care one jot how you read my posts and what erroneous preconceptions you have about me .
I don't care you think I should be ashamed for the time I spent in cold and dark and rain trying to make some difference to some poor horse who deserved better but was not going to get it.
You just stay at home with your horses and enjoy your preconceptions of someone who at least tried to make a difference for horses other than her own .
It's very very easy to look after your own horses it's a complete breeze , trying to improve things for the less fortunate that's much harder .


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## Goldenstar (17 August 2014)

Pearlsasinger said:



			I would love to know how passers-by know who the horses they see from the road belong to, whether the horse lives on the owner's land or at livery or where the owner lives.  I pass many horses at various times, except for my neighbours, I have no idea where the owner of those horses lives, or even how to get to the entrance of the yard that the horses are on at that time.  Apart from the inadvisability of doing so, I wouldn't know where to start to be able to approach the owner of many of them.
		
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I would not advise anyone to approach strangers unless they do so with caution and not alone .


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## Echo Bravo (17 August 2014)

And again you like me miss judge, what makes you think I'm a stay at home preconceptions goes both ways. I don't boast.


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## YorksG (17 August 2014)

EB I have kept horses into their 30's and possibly older, BUT I and the rest of the family called time when we believed that the quality of life was no longer good enough. It is my opinion that SOME people (and some vets) keep animals alive because they can, rather than because they should. As I said in my previous post, a doctor would have kept my mother physically alive although she had lost all her intelectual functioning. I would hope that we all have sufficient humanity to not force others to suffer because we won't/can't make the choice .


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## Goldenstar (17 August 2014)

Echo Bravo said:



			And again you like me miss judge, what makes you think I'm a stay at home preconceptions goes both ways. I don't boast.
		
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What perhaps I should have said if it's easy to take the moral high ground when all you have to do is look after your own horses .
It's much much less easy at the sharp end .
I really don't get the boasting comment what's that got to with this .


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## bonny (17 August 2014)

One of the problems that this thread has highlighted is that we all have different ideas about when time should be called on an animals life....and I for one would not ask a vet but would trust only my own instincts. It's a hard decision and should in my opinion be left up to the owner to decide, not the passing public ! Welfare organisations should not interfere apart from in obvious neglect situations. It's a deeply personal decision and discussing anyone's old/infirm horse on here behind their back is in very poor taste.


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## Echo Bravo (18 August 2014)

And Yorksg that is what I have done over the years with my horses and dogs and cats and I would say most horse owners on here have as well. But having said that what about those poor people that want to die but not allowed too but the as you say the Doctors can say keep them going. The responseable owners are being lumped in with those that aren't and how do you know this mares owner isn't responsable. Nobody should judge another when they don't know the circumstances.


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## Goldenstar (18 August 2014)

bonny said:



			One of the problems that this thread has highlighted is that we all have different ideas about when time should be called on an animals life....and I for one would not ask a vet but would trust only my own instincts. It's a hard decision and should in my opinion be left up to the owner to decide, not the passing public ! Welfare organisations should not interfere apart from in obvious neglect situations. It's a deeply personal decision and discussing anyone's old/infirm horse on here behind their back is in very poor taste.
		
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If you get a call you went that is how it worked you have no idea what you will find normally you expect it be ok and then sometimes you walk into a nightmare you can't walk away from, sometimes it sounds really awful on the phone and it's ok when you get there.
Lame horses not getting veterinary Input are a welfare issue .
Thin oldies I think are not clear cut I have seen thin old horses who seemed to me to have good quality of life and great care they just where thin despite eating well .
Just editing to say I trust my own  instincts and my vets advice about my own .
With other peoples it's different if things don't look good you need a vet to advise .


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## Goldenstar (18 August 2014)

Echo Bravo said:



			And Yorksg that is what I have done over the years with my horses and dogs and cats and I would say most horse owners on here have as well. But having said that what about those poor people that want to die but not allowed too but the as you say the Doctors can say keep them going. The responseable owners are being lumped in with those that aren't and how do you know this mares owner isn't responsable. Nobody should judge another when they don't know the circumstances.
		
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No one has lumped owners together except you .


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## bonny (18 August 2014)

Goldenstar said:



			If you get a call you went that is how it worked you have no idea what you will find normally you expect it be ok and then sometimes you walk into a nightmare you can't walk away from, sometimes it sounds really awful on the phone and it's ok when you get there.
Lame horses not getting veterinary Input are a welfare issue .
Thin oldies I think are not clear cut I have seen thin old horses who seemed to me to have good quality of life and great care they just where thin despite eating well .
		
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That's why I said we all have different views on when life should end for an old/infirm horse and people working for welfare organisations or vets are no different and mostly they are just seeing the horse on one day and not getting the whole picture. I've often had lame horses who haven't seen a vet and I wouldn't class them as welfare cases !


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## Goldenstar (18 August 2014)

bonny said:



			That's why I said we all have different views on when life should end for an old/infirm horse and people working for welfare organisations or vets are no different and mostly they are just seeing the horse on one day and not getting the whole picture. I've often had lame horses who haven't seen a vet and I wouldn't class them as welfare cases !
		
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I honestly think you have no idea of the level of neglect welfare officers are seeing .


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## bonny (18 August 2014)

Goldenstar said:



			I honestly think you have no idea of the level of neglect welfare officers are seeing .
		
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That's not what we're talking about on here though....this is about owner's who care about their horse but don't see that that the end should come. We are not talking about obvious neglect, but old/infirm horses left too long. plus, you have no idea if I have no idea, if that makes sense !!


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## Echo Bravo (18 August 2014)

And again Goldenstar your like Cptrayes arrogance comes through. don't judge people you really don't know.


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## Illusion100 (18 August 2014)

Haven't read the entire thread, skipped after around page 13. 

When I read thread title, I thought someone had said this to OP, so was initially confused when reading OP's initial post.

OP, have to admit I was confused as to whether this was targeted at someone you knew but were not specifically naming or about your frustration that a deteriorating elderly horse appears to be suffering under the care of a stranger. You obviously feel very upset about this horses quality of life and condition. The manner in which you have expressed it has upset others re: 'that awful descision' and the public manner.

In your shoes, I'd be upset about the horse but not wanting to personally confront the owner (as this can severely aggrievate (sp)situation) and call relevant people that may be able to help, as you are doing. If I was as upset about it as you are, then I may have also put a post on here about it too. It is an upsetting situation that is out of your control and I appreciate you are pretty peed off. 

If I was the owner and read this thread and suspected it was me, I'd be devastated and really hurt. 

I have my views on when to PTS but don't expect everyone to agree with me. However, please keep us updated re: results of your phonecall.

To everyone; having an opinion is fine, getting personal is not.


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## Goldenstar (18 August 2014)

Well I can guess you don't know from your views .
I saw horses so arthritic they could not have laid down in years hardly able to put one foot in front of the other living in awful conditions to be told he's thirty like it was an good excuse .
No welfare organisation is interested in micromanaging the retirement of peoples horses but if you get a call you go you have no idea ( although often you can form a view ) what you will find .


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## Goldenstar (18 August 2014)

Echo Bravo said:



			And again Goldenstar your like Cptrayes arrogance comes through. don't judge people you really don't know.
		
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But it's ok for you to judge people .
I really fail to see arrogance in my views your the person saying I should be ashamed of the work I did .
And you call me arrogant priceless .


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## blitznbobs (18 August 2014)

If I've got arthritic knees I hope to God no one shoots me...


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## Illusion100 (18 August 2014)

Goldenstar said:



			Well I can guess you don't know from your views .
I saw horses so arthritic they could not have laid down in years hardly able to put one foot in front of the other living in awful conditions to be told he's thirty like it was an good excuse .
No welfare organisation is interested in micromanaging the retirement of peoples horses but if you get a call you go you have no idea ( although often you can form a view ) what you will find .
		
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Who was that aimed at?


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## Echo Bravo (18 August 2014)

I'm not saying you should be ashamed of the work that you, me and many others do. But the way you put your views over do come over as arrogance and no I don't judge people I don't know, but you are judging people that you don't and never will know and what makes you think we haven't see horrendous things over the years. I take each case as it comes.


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## Illusion100 (18 August 2014)

blitznbobs said:



			If I've got arthritic knees I hope to God no one shoots me...
		
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 I got told by the Vet I worked for (after reading my spinal surgery report) that if I'd have been a horse I'd have been shot. I let it go as she was handing me a glass of wine at the time.....


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## Goldenstar (18 August 2014)

Echo Bravo said:



			I'm not saying you should be ashamed of the work that you, me and many others do. But the way you put your views over do come over as arrogance and no I don't judge people I don't know, but you are judging people that you don't and never will know and what makes you think we haven't see horrendous things over the years. I take each case as it comes.
		
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As did I .
However I should be ashamed of it according to you .


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## justabob (18 August 2014)

Well what a marathon thread this has been, and started by the Queen of the forum too, with huge support from her belly crawlers. If you see a problem cptrayes just report it to the welfare organisation that you think can deal with this situation and be done with it. I have done this with success and the situation was resolved. I never felt the need to discuss my reason for doing so on a public forum.


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## Illusion100 (18 August 2014)

"Well what a marathon thread this has been, and started by the Queen of the forum too, with huge support from her belly crawlers."

Was that necessary?


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## RaposadeGengibre (18 August 2014)

Wow... this thread is probably next in line with onesies for a holy war award...

...and how is it started? OP wrote concerns about elderly horse on a horse forum... *jaw hits the floor*


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## zigzag (18 August 2014)

Pearlsasinger said:



			I would love to know how passers-by know who the horses they see from the road belong to, whether the horse lives on the owner's land or at livery or where the owner lives.  I pass many horses at various times, except for my neighbours, I have no idea where the owner of those horses lives, or even how to get to the entrance of the yard that the horses are on at that time.  Apart from the inadvisability of doing so, I wouldn't know where to start to be able to approach the owner of many of them.
		
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Either A) Ask around, someone is bound to know (remember OP Knows this owner OR B) Call the RSPCA there and then as horse is on 3 legs, not come here and post about it and wait til Monday to call someone


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## Nancykitt (18 August 2014)

RaposadeGengibre said:



			Wow... this thread is probably next in line with onesies for a holy war award...

...and how is it started? OP wrote concerns about elderly horse on a horse forum... *jaw hits the floor*
		
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No, OP did not just write 'concerns' about an elderly horse, she wrote a very blunt message directed straight at the horse's owner, who may or may not have ever seen this forum - which makes it, at worst, ineffective in solving the problem and at best a very insensitive way of dealing with a potentially difficult issue. Had the post been along the lines of 'I've been seeing this horse for years, I'm now very concerned and planning to seek help on Monday' I doubt it would have got past a couple of pages.
Even some people who basically approve of the OP's concerns have said that they felt the initial post required more tact.

There are people I come across who are exceedingly blunt & are actually proud of it, often using phrases such as 'I tell it like it is' as a sort of justification. Personally I don't like this approach. But as the saying goes, don't give it unless you can take it. To say something as blunt as 'Oy you...get your horse put down' and then object to a backlash is a bit rich.


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## RaposadeGengibre (18 August 2014)

Nancykitt said:



			......Had the post been along the lines of 'I've been seeing this horse for years, I'm now very concerned and planning to seek help on Monday' I doubt it would have got past a couple of pages.....
		
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mmm... my skeptical mind is in doubt after reading from page 1.

In my short life on the forum I havent made strong opinions about peeps here. Yes, a few already struck sort of "if you say dear, just dont get your knickers on a twist", a few I mostly disagree (but lately seems Im constantly agree...), some who I really enjoy reading, some with really striking nicknames...rest is just a crowd like l am. And honestly there are quite a few pretty arrogant users IMHO but not OP. And reading the thread, I would say its more personal "we have got a chance! get her!!!" thing than the thread itself. I have read threads about yards, YO, somebodys horses, etc. etc. etc... where in some cases you dont have to be a real genius to put 2 and 2 together as to location or specific place. And may be OP is being blunt naming the thread "oi..!" but not everyone is "would you please be so kind to have a slight glance at you dear horsy in his late years..."

ooop-s... and now Im late for work. Gone.


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## AmandaMT (18 August 2014)

RaposadeGengibre said:



			Wow... this thread is probably next in line with onesies for a holy war award...

...and how is it started? OP wrote concerns about elderly horse on a horse forum... *jaw hits the floor*
		
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3,000 more comments to go if we dream of catching up with the onesie saga.


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## ILuvCowparsely (18 August 2014)

zigzag said:



			Probably not, but still wouldn't drive past a horse on 3 legs, would at least go and tell the owner... and the OP knows all about the owner so why not call in and say sorry, think your horse has done something as it's on 3 legs?
		
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^ like


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## ILuvCowparsely (18 August 2014)

Goldenstar said:



			It's ten years plus now since I was involved and then going around nudging owners of old horses was something we did regularly.
		
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Wow!!!   what a lovely thing to do  something we need to think about everyone with older horses once they reach 20's get the bullet out.

No one would ever get anywhere like that with me, they would need to book dental appointment.

 I think OP knew this would spark reaction and is now sitting back gloating and enjoying all the replies.

  Its one thing to air views  of a certain type on a public forum, but they have done nothing to speak to the owner or find out what actually is being done for this poor horse, so dragging this through the mire when the owner is not able to reply.  To post this on a large forum like this when they have no knowledge if this owner reads this forum or not is not wise, as If  the owner is a member here and reads this they  would find out who this is bad mouthing her on the internet and tell H&H and give the OP a well deserved holiday again.

Its one thing a neglected horse without a caring owner, but I gather this horse is on livery in a yard where knowledgeable people are to keep an eye on the situation.

 Op should have gone to the yard and spoken to the owner  or YO as previously mentioned if she has those concerns  and found what exactly is the situation.  I have experience of well meaning / interfering people who drag a very stressful / upsetting time into a very distasteful time.  Start rumours  which tarnish someones reputation, which go from bad to worst and then report someone to WHW.  When they know Jack **** what was going on and done for the horse


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## AmandaMT (18 August 2014)

HGA-12 said:



			Wow!!!   what a lovely thing to do  something we need to think about everyone with older horses once they reach 20's get the bullet out.

No one would ever get anywhere like that with me, they would need to book dental appointment.
		
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Not very tasteful thinking all old horses should be PTS. The way society is going humans will be PTS when they get old.


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## Tiddlypom (18 August 2014)

AmandaMT said:



			Not very tasteful thinking all old horses should be PTS. The way society is going humans will be PTS when they get old.
		
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No one has said that ALL old horses should be put to sleep, though some posters seem to be convinced that someone has. 

My dear old dad begged to be pts as he approached his end of life. Despite being a doctor himself, and having numerous medics in the family, no one could give him the peace he craved. He had to hang on for his final miserable few months, age 103.

Thank goodness we are able to call time on our animals, at least.


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## AmandaMT (18 August 2014)

Tiddlypom said:



			No one has said that ALL old horses should be put to sleep, though some posters seem to be convinced that someone has. 

My dear old dad begged to be pts as he approached his end of life. Despite being a doctor himself, and having numerous medics in the family, no one could give him the peace he craved. He had to hang on for his final miserable few months, age 103.

Thank goodness we are able to call time on our animals, at least.
		
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I am not against people making the choice to end a suffering. It was wrong to use a social media site to attack someone who for all we know could be treating the horse.


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## AdorableAlice (18 August 2014)

Let's assume (dangerous I know), that the call has been made to the relevant authorities by now.

Let's hope the owner has not seen this disrespectful thread, let's hope the owner is in need of guidance rather than elderly, ill or challenged in any other way and let's hope the animal can have it's needs met quickly.


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## neddy man (18 August 2014)

AdorableAlice said:



			Let's assume (dangerous I know), that the call has been made to the relevant authorities by now.

Let's hope the owner has not seen this disrespectful thread, let's hope the owner is in need of guidance rather than elderly, ill or challenged in any other way and let's hope the animal can have it's needs met quickly.
		
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superb quote !!!


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## misskk88 (18 August 2014)

If the OP had came on here asking for advice about how to deal with the situation or expressing concerns- I could understand. 

But it is unfair to publicly announce such a strong and clearly accusing opinion/thread, when 1, only the OP knows this horse and owner and 2, if the OP is unaware of how the horse is being treated (IF it is), then essentially they could find themselves in hot water (defamation of character, slander etc), particularly if said owner does see the page, and if people on this thread were to become aware of who it was. Sometimes I feel this forum is used as a place for witch hunts. 

I undersand that sometimes you have to be the eyes and ears for animals when others turn a blind eye. BUT a well written letter, a call to appropriate BHS/WHW officer etc, or a knock on the door to say 'sorry I don't mean to intrude or alarm you, but I notice your horse is hobbling on three legs- is it ok?' rather than a 'you're horse is arthritic why are you not doing anything- you should be PTS' approach may be worth it.


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## Goldenstar (18 August 2014)

HGA-12 said:



			Wow!!!   what a lovely thing to do  something we need to think about everyone with older horses once they reach 20's get the bullet out.

No one would ever get anywhere like that with me, they would need to book dental appointment.

 I think OP knew this would spark reaction and is now sitting back gloating and enjoying all the replies.

  Its one thing to air views  of a certain type on a public forum, but they have done nothing to speak to the owner or find out what actually is being done for this poor horse, so dragging this through the mire when the owner is not able to reply.  To post this on a large forum like this when they have no knowledge if this owner reads this forum or not is not wise, as If  the owner is a member here and reads this they  would find out who this is bad mouthing her on the internet and tell H&H and give the OP a well deserved holiday again.

Its one thing a neglected horse without a caring owner, but I gather this horse is on livery in a yard where knowledgeable people are to keep an eye on the situation.

 Op should have gone to the yard and spoken to the owner  or YO as previously mentioned if she has those concerns  and found what exactly is the situation.  I have experience of well meaning / interfering people who drag a very stressful / upsetting time into a very distasteful time.  Start rumours  which tarnish someones reputation, which go from bad to worst and then report someone to WHW.  When they know Jack **** what was going on and done for the horse
		
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I am curious by what you think I mean by nudging .
Nudging to me means trying to get owners to make changes that made horses lives better .
Nudging them to get proper veterinary advice when a horse was lame and had had no veterinary input for a long time .
Nudging to get owners to follow the advice given by that vet.
Making suggestions like say providing straw to give a dryer standing area little stuff often to make life easier for an old horse.
I would not have made the original post on this thread ,when I was exactly in the same situation earlier this year I called the RSPCA they made they the owner get her vet out and then checked up that horse was being medicated twice afterwards .
The horse was moving about and looking much happier within twenty our hours of the vet coming .
I was glad I called them , loads of people where complaining and talking and saying someone should do something so I did .


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## Zero00000 (18 August 2014)

Post a >>>>>>>>> that advert over there post, and you can criticize until the cows come home, post about a genuine welfare concern and your shot down in flames.... HHO never ceases to amaze me!!! 

OP I agree with what you have done, and I personally feel that 'personal attack' is the correct term, it or should I say 'they' follow you around like a bad smell! 

Kudos for standing up for what you believe in, not many people do in this day and age!


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## Moomin1 (18 August 2014)

I would bet my last pound that if this thread was about a travellers horse in that condition, most of the responses would have been a whole lot different.


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## RunToEarth (18 August 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			I would bet my last pound that if this thread was about a travellers horse in that condition, most of the responses would have been a whole lot different.
		
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I don't condone horse cruelty on ANY level, be it a traveller or a famous eventer, I think we all know that wrong is wrong. However, there are ways and means of getting a point across, and this particular approach doesn't seem particularly compassionate. 

Had it been me, I would have made an attempt to speak to it's carer in a pleasant and understanding way and express my concerns. How can we expect people to behave with such compassion and kindness to animals when we act in such a vile manner ourselves?


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## Zero00000 (18 August 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			I would bet my last pound that if this thread was about a travellers horse in that condition, most of the responses would have been a whole lot different.
		
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Not betting... I may aswell just give it to you


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## Moomin1 (18 August 2014)

RunToEarth said:



			I don't condone horse cruelty on ANY level, be it a traveller or a famous eventer, I think we all know that wrong is wrong. However, there are ways and means of getting a point across, and this particular approach doesn't seem particularly compassionate. 

Had it been me, I would have made an attempt to speak to it's carer in a pleasant and understanding way and express my concerns. How can we expect people to behave with such compassion and kindness to animals when we act in such a vile manner ourselves?
		
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I don't doubt that RTE as you usually come across level headed. However I bet many more of the posts on this thread would have been very different.  It does make me laugh how a lot of posters are so quick to jump to the defence of 'normal' horse owners yet be it a traveller then they would be up in arms and setting up a FB 'rescue' appeal and finding out who has a lorry and stable to go and 'collect' it...

That being said, I am not saying I don't agree with many points made on this thread - interesting points from both side of the coin


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## Wagtail (18 August 2014)

Blimey, I'm surprised at the number of people who would go wandering around on private land, up lonely lanes to knock on the door of a house in the middle of nowhere. For a start, I would be worried about large dogs that may not take kindly to strangers just wandering around, not to mention the not too welcoming reception you might get! 

I agree that reporting to the correct authority would be the best option, but I really do understand why the OP decided to tackle it in the way that she did.


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## ribbons (18 August 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			I would bet my last pound that if this thread was about a travellers horse in that condition, most of the responses would have been a whole lot different.
		
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Mine wouldn't have been. My posts were not about the horse. I've already said I would probably agree with cpt on that score. It was the sheer arrogance I posted about. The "oy you" and the PUT YOUR HORSE TO SLEEP.


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## ILuvCowparsely (18 August 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			I would bet my last pound that if this thread was about a travellers horse in that condition, most of the responses would have been a whole lot different.
		
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 This situation with People of the mobile kind is entirely different, there have been many a news in the last 12 months where they have dumped/ thrown in the river horses they no longer want or drown.

We are referring to a family pet which is loved and may have been in the family for years. Whether the owner needs educating in the welfare or whats best is down to those involved, it would be different if the horse was out on the moors not being checked upon daily.  Here on this thread where does it say someone knows exactly why this mare is lame??

Maybe there is another reason why this mare is lame!!   The mare maybe being treated by a vet for the unrelated reason, its so easy to pass judgement on a horse you see from the car window, and you nothing about the history.  If OP was concerned then speak to those who have the powers to act on the facts not pass judgement on what they see.


 I lost count how many time "F"'s owner was reported because the pony thin and ribby.  Once "WHW"/RSPCA  came to view and found pony was being cared for albeit thin, and she was still enjoying life even though she was 36, they took no further action.
 The facts ought to be addressed before passing judgement on someones horse on an open forum.  

In one sense I hope the owner does she this and reports it to H&H and asks this thread to be removed.  Then the matter is left to the owner and yard manager/ vet to ensure the best scenario is given to this poor horse based on what the vet finds or recommends to the owner.


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## Moomin1 (18 August 2014)

HGA-12 said:



			This situation with People of the mobile kind is entirely different, there have been many a news in the last 12 months where they have dumped/ thrown in the river horses they no longer want or drown.

We are referring to a family pet which is loved and may have been in the family for years. Whether the owner needs educating in the welfare or whats best is down to those involved, it would be different if the horse was out on the moors not being checked upon daily.  Here on this thread where does it say someone knows exactly why this mare is lame??

Maybe there is another reason why this mare is lame!!   The mare maybe being treated by a vet for the unrelated reason, its so easy to pass judgement on a horse you see from the car window, and you nothing about the history.  If OP was concerned then speak to those who have the powers to act on the facts not pass judgement on what they see.


 I lost count how many time "F"'s owner was reported because the pony thin and ribby.  Once "WHW"/RSPCA  came to view and found pony was being cared for albeit thin, and she was still enjoying life even though she was 36, they took no further action.
 The facts ought to be addressed before passing judgement on someones horse on an open forum.  

In one sense I hope the owner does she this and reports it to H&H and asks this thread to be removed.  Then the matter is left to the owner and yard manager/ vet to ensure the best scenario is given to this poor horse based on what the vet finds or recommends to the owner.
		
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I'm sorry, but having been heavily involved in frontline welfare work for eight years, then I completely disagree.  There are no more cases whatsoever of the travelling community neglecting animals than there are the non travelling community.  In fact, I would say the scales tip the balance more on the non travelling community.  And many of the cases are of people who 'think' they know what's best for their horse, when in fact they are blinded by love for them.

As I said in my previous post, I don't disagree with many points made on this thread. One being that the appropriate authorities should be notified rather than a thread being made about it.  However, my point is, that many of these posters who are up in arms about this thread being made, are actually the very ones who are quick to post strongly on threads about travellers horses in fields of ragwort etc....nothing like a bit of hypocrisy.  I very rarely see on this forum anyone writing "We shouldn't be quick to judge the travellers for a horse that is lame and underweight, we don't know the full story".....


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## horseygirl1688 (18 August 2014)

Sometimes there is more to life than meets the eye.  A few years ago someone on my yard took too long to say goodbye to her 4 legged friends and yes it was uncomfortable to watch however she'd had an awful few years personally and the horse had been her reason for getting out of bed and she couldn't face not having her to lean on.  Does it make what she did right? No, probably not.  But having everyone tell her she needed to get rid asap and making her feel pressured could well have been the straw that broke the camels back and ultimately it had to be her decision and nobody else's so that the owner could move forward with her life.  I'm not saying allowing an animal to suffer is right just that sometimes it better not to pass judgement without knowing the full story.


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## Moomin1 (18 August 2014)

horseygirl1688 said:



			Sometimes there is more to life than meets the eye.  A few years ago someone on my yard took too long to say goodbye to her 4 legged friends and yes it was uncomfortable to watch however she'd had an awful few years personally and the horse had been her reason for getting out of bed and she couldn't face not having her to lean on.  Does it make what she did right? No, probably not.  But having everyone tell her she needed to get rid asap and making her feel pressured could well have been the straw that broke the camels back and ultimately it had to be her decision and nobody else's so that the owner could move forward with her life.  I'm not saying allowing an animal to suffer is right just that sometimes it better not to pass judgement without knowing the full story.
		
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I'm sorry but ultimately the decision is not the owners' when an animal is suffering, whatever the owner's circumstances. Sad though that may be for the owner.  

I agree fully that people should not pass judgement without knowing the full story - and that goes back to my point about the travellers and peoples' automatic reactions to threads about them - complete difference in this thread than those posted about coloured cobs looking thin in a field etc.


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## _HP_ (18 August 2014)

Always so sad to see horses struggling and not be able to do much. Hopefully your call to the relevent people will set the ball rolling.

As for everything else....it's always quite funny to see the responses to cptrayes posts ...people really need to move on lol


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## Bede (18 August 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			I'm sorry but ultimately the decision is not the owners' when an animal is suffering, whatever the owner's circumstances. Sad though that may be for the owner.  

I agree fully that people should not pass judgement without knowing the full story - and that goes back to my point about the travellers and peoples' automatic reactions to threads about them - complete difference in this thread than those posted about coloured cobs looking thin in a field etc.
		
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Whose decision is it?
BHS, WHW, RSCPA, your vet, my vet?
And who gets the casting vote when all parties cannot agree?


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## RunToEarth (18 August 2014)

horseygirl1688 said:



			Sometimes there is more to life than meets the eye.  A few years ago someone on my yard took too long to say goodbye to her 4 legged friends and yes it was uncomfortable to watch however she'd had an awful few years personally and the horse had been her reason for getting out of bed and she couldn't face not having her to lean on.  Does it make what she did right? No, probably not.  But having everyone tell her she needed to get rid asap and making her feel pressured could well have been the straw that broke the camels back and ultimately it had to be her decision and nobody else's so that the owner could move forward with her life.  I'm not saying allowing an animal to suffer is right just that sometimes it better not to pass judgement without knowing the full story.
		
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It's a rough old life, but I don't think you can justify compromising on a horse's welfare for the happiness of a miserable person - she cannot have been happy knowing what pain she was putting her horse through, for her own gratification. I don't honestly know what I would do if I were on a yard with a horse who was really suffering and an owner refusing to put it down. I don't agree with the way CPT has gone about raising the issue, but equally I am completely in agreement that an issue needed raising. 

We're a bit past the days of "not my monkey" now surely? I hate to get involved where things aren't my business but I won't sit and watch an animal suffer.


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## Wagtail (18 August 2014)

_HP_ said:



			Always so sad to see horses struggling and not be able to do much. Hopefully your call to the relevent people will set the ball rolling.

As for everything else....it's always quite funny to see the responses to cptrayes posts ...people really need to move on lol 

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Well I don't think the OP is even reading the posts any more. Can't say I blame her. People who bear grudges over petty forum disputes really just don't have a life. What a small world they must live in. I know I have clashed with many on here. I had a major dispute with the OP at one point. But I can't remember most of the people I have clashed with on here; forum life is just not that important to me. Sadly though, it appears that to many, it is their whole life, and these kinds of threads make them shine out like beacons. :biggrin3:


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## Exploding Chestnuts (18 August 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			I'm sorry but ultimately the decision is not the owners' when an animal is suffering, whatever the owner's circumstances. Sad though that may be for the owner.  

I agree fully that people should not pass judgement without knowing the full story - and that goes back to my point about the travellers and peoples' automatic reactions to threads about them - complete difference in this thread than those posted about coloured cobs looking thin in a field etc.
		
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^^^^this, however we can't assume the owner of this lame,  arthritic, and deteriorating horse will read this thread AND take action, so really OP should DO something positive, not this............ the owner might just move the poor animal away from the road.................


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## Moomin1 (18 August 2014)

Bede said:



			Whose decision is it?
BHS, WHW, RSCPA, your vet, my vet?
And who gets the casting vote when all parties cannot agree?
		
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It's not WHW, RSPCA, BHS's decision or the owners ultimately - it's a vet and the police if a horse is suffering and the owner will not address that suffering.  So it matters not if all of the parties disagree.


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## Goldenstar (18 August 2014)

Bede said:



			Whose decision is it?
BHS, WHW, RSCPA, your vet, my vet?
And who gets the casting vote when all parties cannot agree?
		
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Never been in that situation personally , the RSPCA could PTS a suffering horse ( the vet would be the one who would make the decision )with the agreement of the police the owner would then probably face prosecution . 
Horses certainly get PTS against the owners wishes I have only come across that in big rescues with lots of horses being taken .


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## cobgoblin (18 August 2014)

Wagtail said:



			Well I don't think the OP is even reading the posts any more. Can't say I blame her. People who bear grudges over petty forum disputes really just don't have a life. What a small world they must live in. I know I have clashed with many on here. I had a major dispute with the OP at one point. But I can't remember most of the people I have clashed with on here; forum life is just not that important to me. Sadly though, it appears that to many, it is their whole life, and these kinds of threads make them shine out like beacons. :biggrin3:
		
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Just about says it all.


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## FestiveFuzz (18 August 2014)

Goldenstar said:



			I love going round in circles I have be training horses to do it for years .
		
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I think this is my favourite post so far on this thread!


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## ChesnutsRoasting (18 August 2014)

AdorableAlice said:



			Let's assume (dangerous I know), that the call has been made to the relevant authorities by now.

Let's hope the owner has not seen this disrespectful thread, let's hope the owner is in need of guidance rather than elderly, ill or challenged in any other way and let's hope the animal can have it's needs met quickly.
		
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The only thing disrespectful about this thread is the anti-CPtrayes brigade who have an obvious axe to grind. I've now received an infartion - I mean an infraction - for my post which included alternative names for CP - meant in jest, hell, my initials are BS - a deliberate decision, but hey ho.


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## Wagtail (18 August 2014)

blazingsaddles said:



			The only thing disrespectful about this thread is the anti-CPtrayes brigade who have an obvious axe to grind. I've now received an infartion - I mean an infraction - for my post which included alternative names for CP - meant in jest, hell, my initials are BS - a deliberate decision, but hey ho.
		
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Sorry to hear that, BS.


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## Flame_ (18 August 2014)

Bonkers2 said:



			^^^^this, however we can't assume the owner of this lame,  arthritic, and deteriorating horse will read this thread AND take action, so really OP should DO something positive, not this............ the owner might just move the poor animal away from the road.................
		
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The horse world's a small one and I'm willing to bet everyone in it at least knows someone who knows someone who reads HHO. The horse's location been generally stated, I think the message will reach them soon enough if it hasn't already. 

You are right though, they don't have to respond the way the op wants them to. ETA Thinking about it, they might be a total psycho who's pretty p'd off about the message. Maybe you should have just anonymously reported it for your own sake OP, even if you weren't bothered about upsetting them?


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## Nancykitt (18 August 2014)

Flame_ said:



			The horse world's a small one and I'm willing to bet everyone in it at least knows someone who knows someone who reads HHO. The horse's location been generally stated, I think the message will reach them soon enough if it hasn't already. 

You are right though, they don't have to respond the way the op wants them to.
		
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Good point.
Even if the message does somehow get back to the owner, the assumption is that they will just take it on the chin and have the horse put down. But we don't even know the full story so we really can't assume that this will be the outcome.

I have had no contact with people from equine charities but I'd be surprised if they opened a conversation with 'oy you!' and then going on to tell the owner to have the horse put down without listening to anything anyone had to say.

I knew someone who had an elderly horse - not far off his time, but not in pain-  and was devastated when a very rude woman described her as 'dead cruel' before saying 'I speak my mind and if you don't like it that's tough. GERRIT SHOT.' Owner reacted simply by moving away immediately. No idea what happened to the horse but if that woman thought that the owner - who'd had that horse for over 30 years - was just going to say 'oh right yes, OK then, I'll book the knackerman right now', she was very much mistaken. There are ways and means of speaking g to people to get the best outcome all round.


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## applecart14 (18 August 2014)

This is turning into a battle ground.


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## Mongoose11 (18 August 2014)

'Fear of being set upon'? IT'S A FORUM. Get a grip of yourself woman!


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## Nancykitt (18 August 2014)

As I said earlier, people who can't take it shouldn't give it. Anyone who takes the decision to say something controversial cannot reasonably then complain about the backlash.


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## applecart14 (18 August 2014)

Nancykitt said:



			As I said earlier, people who can't take it shouldn't give it. Anyone who takes the decision to say something controversial cannot reasonably then complain about the backlash.
		
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Yes but there is backlash and then there is unpleasant, unkind and very personal backlash.  Some of the people on this forum can get quite nasty with the things they say when there is no need for it.


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## Mongoose11 (18 August 2014)

applecart14 said:



			This is turning into a battle ground.
		
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Ahh the hasty retraction. No battle ground AppleCart, just a load of women who disagree with each other. It's the natural order of things. A battle of words? Hardly something to cry about.


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## Mongoose11 (18 August 2014)

applecart14 said:



			Some of the people on this forum can get quite nasty with the things they say when there is no need for it.
		
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This is precisely what people have disliked about the original post and yet you are in support of it. Make your mind up.


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## cronkmooar (18 August 2014)

applecart14 said:



			Yes but there is backlash and then there is unpleasant, unkind and very personal backlash.  Some of the people on this forum can get quite nasty with the things they say when there is no need for it.
		
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Are you suggesting that "OY YOU WITH THE ARTHRITIC MARE ... PUT IT TO SLEEP is neither unpleasant, unkind or very personal?


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## Nancykitt (18 August 2014)

cronkmooar said:



			Are you suggesting that "OY YOU WITH THE ARTHRITIC MARE ... PUT IT TO SLEEP is neither unpleasant, unkind or very personal?
		
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That's pretty much what I was going to say. 
At best it's tactless and at worst it's nasty. Clearly, there are people on here who interpreted it as both.


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## JFTDWS (18 August 2014)

Funnily enough, I spend my life rolling my eyes at people complainging about "thin" cobs in traveller's fields too...  They're rarely "thin", in my experience (round here anyway - perhaps we have a better class of traveller?!).

I love the idea that this forum is anybody's "life" - good grief, that would be a depressing reality


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## Goldenstar (18 August 2014)

JFTD said:



			Funnily enough, I spend my life rolling my eyes at people complainging about "thin" cobs in traveller's fields too...  They're rarely "thin", in my experience (round here anyway - perhaps we have a better class of traveller?!).

I love the idea that this forum is anybody's "life" - good grief, that would be a depressing reality 

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Cyber riders perhaps ?


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## JFTDWS (18 August 2014)

Goldenstar said:



			Cyber riders perhaps ?
		
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Hehe, yea, digital horses, riding digital tests in a digital arena...  I guess at least they wouldn't have to worry about their digital self being too fat for their digital pony!


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## shortstuff99 (18 August 2014)

JFTD said:



			Hehe, yea, digital horses, riding digital tests in a digital arena...  I guess at least they wouldn't have to worry about their digital self being too fat for their digital pony!
		
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Isn't that called Howrse?


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## FionaM12 (18 August 2014)

Wagtail said:



			Well I don't think the OP is even reading the posts any more. Can't say I blame her. People who bear grudges over petty forum disputes really just don't have a life. What a small world they must live in. I know I have clashed with many on here. I had a major dispute with the OP at one point. But I can't remember most of the people I have clashed with on here; forum life is just not that important to me. Sadly though, it appears that to many, it is their whole life, and these kinds of threads make them shine out like beacons. :biggrin3:
		
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Haha, I know what you mean. My memory's so rubbish that I can never remember who's who and who I've had run-ins with. Someone I must have disagreed with a couple of times once said they thought I was picking on them or had a grudge. Ermmmm... I actually had no idea we'd clashed before, who they were and can't remember even now!


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## ozpoz (18 August 2014)

I'm mystified reading all this.. Why jump on the op with so much venom? I think she has as much right to rant as any of us might do if they were upset at seeing suffering.


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## Wagtail (18 August 2014)

FionaM12 said:



			Haha, I know what you mean. My memory's so rubbish that I can never remember who's who and who I'm had run-ins with. Someone I must have disagreed with a couple of times once said they thought I was picking on them or had a grudge. Ermmmm... I actually had no idea we'd clashed before, who they were and can't remember even now! 

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Lol. It's either bad memory or it just means you are a normal balanced individual who doesn't take scuffles on here seriously, so why would you remember? I don't know why I am constantly surprised when a thread like this crops up. I mean it's a bit worrying when some of them may be teachers. What hope is there for our kids eh?


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## FionaM12 (18 August 2014)

_HP_ said:



			As for everything else....it's always quite funny to see the responses to cptrayes posts ...people really need to move on lol 

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I'm not here all the time, I just dip in and I do miss a lot that's going on. However, I always have Cptrayes down as a helpful knowledgeable person here, especially on anything foot-related.  It surprises me that there seem to be a few who dislike her so. :confused3:


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## Wagtail (18 August 2014)

ozpoz said:



			I'm mystified reading all this.. Why jump on the op with so much venom? I think she has as much right to rant as any of us might do if they were upset at seeing suffering.
		
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Ridiculous, isn't it?


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## mairiwick (18 August 2014)

Quite honestly, if the horse is it that much discomfort/pain - if I was their owner and had been putting off the inevitable/trying low level treatment or even I guess not able to admit it... And I was spoken to rudely/bluntly/however you read OP's post OR if I'd seen it on here, it would give me the boot up the backside to actually do something about it - get the vet out and have a real discussion about what to do for the best for the horse. 
If I was ever doing anything to the detriment of my horse and I was called up on it, I would rather that happen than the horse suffer - you get over criticism, the horse doesn't get over its suffering unless the owner takes action. 
We're all adults, we can take it.


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## ChesnutsRoasting (18 August 2014)

mairiwick said:



			Quite honestly, if the horse is it that much discomfort/pain - if I was their owner and had been putting off the inevitable/trying low level treatment or even I guess not able to admit it... And I was spoken to rudely/bluntly/however you read OP's post OR if I'd seen it on here, it would give me the boot up the backside to actually do something about it - get the vet out and have a real discussion about what to do for the best for the horse. 
If I was ever doing anything to the detriment of my horse and I was called up on it, I would rather that happen than the horse suffer - you get over criticism, the horse doesn't get over its suffering unless the owner takes action. 
We're all adults, we can take it.
		
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Spot on.


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## ChesnutsRoasting (18 August 2014)

Wagtail said:



			Sorry to hear that, BS.
		
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No biggie, but cheers. It's all a load b*****ks anyway.


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## FionaM12 (18 August 2014)

blazingsaddles said:



			No biggie, but cheers. It's all a load b*****ks anyway.
		
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Careful! You'll get in more trouble for your ****s!


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## ChesnutsRoasting (18 August 2014)

FionaM12 said:



			Careful! You'll get in more trouble for your ****s! 

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Sometimes I get the devil in me & can't stop myself! Oh, the things I would really like to post..........


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## Adopter (18 August 2014)

ozpoz said:



			I'm mystified reading all this.. Why jump on the op with so much venom? I think she has as much right to rant as any of us might do if they were upset at seeing suffering.
		
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I am another mistified person!  

 I drive through the Staffs Moorland where fields are often very exposed, grass is poor and it is already autumn and there are horses standing in fields with out any shelter, ponies can get behind the stone walls horses get no shelter from them.

Just hope OP has been able to alert appropriate people so owner gets some support and advice, how often do we see on this forum better a day early than a month of extra pain.


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## Honey08 (18 August 2014)

blazingsaddles said:



			The only thing disrespectful about this thread is the anti-CPtrayes brigade who have an obvious axe to grind. I've now received an infartion - I mean an infraction - for my post which included alternative names for CP - meant in jest, hell, my initials are BS - a deliberate decision, but hey ho.
		
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Oh what a shame BS, that seems a daft reason, but a lot of infractions seem silly to me!   I got one once, I quoted an advert and told them I was reporting them (it was something dodgy) and I reported it then got an infraction for having quoted it!


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## Red-1 (19 August 2014)

Back to the horse----- do we know if CPT rung up? Are they visiting (WHW or RSPCA)?


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## Wagtail (19 August 2014)

Red-1 said:



			Back to the horse----- do we know if CPT rung up? Are they visiting (WHW or RSPCA)?
		
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She hasn't been on the forum since the other night. I guess the personal attacks were just not worth it. I expect that she has reported the horse though.


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## Moomin1 (19 August 2014)

Wagtail said:



			She hasn't been on the forum since the other night. I guess the personal attacks were just not worth it. I expect that she has reported the horse though.
		
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I'm not surprised tbh.  Some of the posts on here are very personal and a couple of posters in particular haven't shown themselves in a very nice light.


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