# To scope for ulcers wwyd



## andytiger (11 December 2017)

Hi just wanted to know what you all think Ive had on going issues with my horses behaviour for a while now so its not a new behaviour but its starting to wear me down its constant if you go to touch him he bites changing rugs he bits he used to like being groomed now moves away swishes tail and girthing up is a nightmare you only have to run your stirrups down and he will try and bite you 
I spoke to my vet last year about this and he said I could have him scoped if I wanted but he doubted very much he had ulcers as he displays no other symptoms and he said it may be just the way he is 
Ive tried prebotics changing his diet soaking hay nothing makes any difference and his behaviour is definatley worse in winter he has ad-lib Haylege and a balancer and Alfa a 2x daily excersised regularly 6 days out of 7 weather permitting 
What do you guys think


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## ycbm (11 December 2017)

I think your vet doesn't know what he's talking about, and if you are insured you should get him scooped and if you aren't insured you should buy a large quantity of ranitidine from eBay and see whether it makes any difference to his attitude. You could also buy omeprazole from Abler.com, but you should be aware that it is not legal, though plenty of people do it.


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## jumbyjack (11 December 2017)

I'd scope for sure, you have described the behaviour of two of my friends horses exactly! Both had ulcers, one was the worst the Vet had ever seen. After treatment both are now clear and the behaviours have improved  rapidly.


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## Pearlsasinger (11 December 2017)

I'm not sure what other symptoms your vet is waiting for!  Your horse is telling you that there is a problem, it might be ulcers, there again, it might not but ulcers sounds like a good place to start.  You know that it isn't 'just him' because it's a change in his behaviour, so it definitely needs investigation..


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## SEL (11 December 2017)

I had an over weight draft horse who started to take chunks out of me when I went near her tummy. A long way from the 'typical' ulcer case, but she was insured so we scoped.

Not only were there ulcers but it also highlighted an inflamed stomach. Now we know that certain situations set off her stomach I manage her on that basis and she got omeprazole without another scope when she got sick again this year.

I would definitely scope with what you're describing. My YO thought I was mad & actually apologised to me when the ulcers came up on the screen.


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## little_critter (11 December 2017)

Just to add my experience. My mare started getting grumpy and biting when I was changing rugs / grooming / tacking up. I suspected ulcers (because the areas she reacted to were classic 'ulcer areas', as a test asked a friend to do the same things (rug / groom / tack up) and she didn't react at all.
It turns out that her saddle had started bridging and she was associating me handling her with putting the saddle on her (she had generally been ok to handle in the morning and worse in the evening, when I ride, but I had assumed the difference in attitude was due to frosty grass upsetting her stomach). 
Her ridden work never changed so I hadn't suspected the saddle at all.
Once I sorted out the saddle she was back to her old self.
So it might be a quick and easy test to check the saddle (or anything else your horse might be associating with pain) before forking out on a scope.


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## Marmaduke (13 December 2017)

Definitely scope. Have two horses with ulcers (despite completely ulcer friendly routine!) and the youngster has now also scoped positive for ulcers. He has EMS and does NOT look at all like he would have them! He has on and off disliked saddling, particularly girthing walking slightly stilted afterwards until I get on and maybe pressure is released slightly? Ditto biting re rugs etc. Saddling got so bad recently he has gone to vets and even after 3 weeks of gastrogard and only slight improvement in touchiness being groomed, he has scoped with grade 3 ulcers, the worst being just inside the stomach from the oesophagus. This area joins the diaphragm and hopefully explains the aversion to the saddle. Vet discovered he could not do carrot stetches with saddle on but was fine with it off. This was a starved overnight horse. (saddle has been fitted to him). He also had a raised liver enzyme which vet suspects is caused by ulcers.The other horse looked shiny and well but was always grumpy to groom, nipped when doing up rugs and swished tail etc on girthing. He had grade 2 and 4. Both horses agreeable when ridden but possibly only "for so long" and were happy to finish. So definitely scope your horse will thank you!


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## andytiger (16 December 2017)

Thankyou for all your replies we are booked in for a scope Monday morning will let you know how I get on


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## andytiger (19 December 2017)

Hi turns out he has grade 3 ulcers  feeling very guilty I didn&#8217;t get it checked a long time ago


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## SEL (19 December 2017)

andytiger said:



			Hi turns out he has grade 3 ulcers  feeling very guilty I didn&#8217;t get it checked a long time ago
		
Click to expand...

Don't feel guilty - there's a lot out there who never get any help despite all the signals they give us. Key to curing them is trying to get a hold on why he got them in the first place - stress, pain, diet etc etc. Stress and winter do it for my mare.


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## Marmaduke (20 December 2017)

Pleased you have an answer. The "classic symptoms" dont apply to all and it takes a good owner to go down this route so well done! I expect all horses have them, just some are more sensitive and possibly low grade they can handle them it's when they get worse we see changes that a lot would put down to a horse misbehaving. How many horses are out there getting reprimanded for being in pain? Ditto stress and winter playing a part. Pain elsewhere can cause the stress if they are not that type. I have acidic pasture and water (tested via forageplus) which cannot help. I believe research is showing mycotoxins may also play a part.


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