# Is anyone hunting or team chasing a horse with Navicular?



## LizzieRC1313 (22 July 2015)

As above - a friends horse has been diagnosed & she's had him less than 6 months. He passed a 5 stage vetting and was hunting in his previous home. We are hopeful he can go back to this as his lameness & consequent diagnosis was brought on by a separate injury & we think the box rest. Any positive experiences?


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## spacefaer (22 July 2015)

I know of a couple of top level eventers that competed with it, as well as several hunters.

I can see no reason why not, as long as she is careful with the road work and the fittening


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## LizzieRC1313 (22 July 2015)

That's encouraging to hear, thank you.  She is going to limit working him on hard ground to the absolute minimum, but we are hoping working on soft ground suits him better. As she bought him to learn and gain confidence on, it will be a dreadful shame if she can't have some fun on him.


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## JenHunt (23 July 2015)

i also know of a fair few who have hunted with navicular. Most are managed very carefully, given bute when necessary and given a good joint supplement too. 

one of ours has spavin in both hocks, and side bone in both fronts.... he still hunts, albeit that we pick and choose his days (the soft ground makes him sore) and he's not allowed to canter on roads. We also make sure he's not out for long days, especially when it's been fast and furious. 

as spacefaer says - get the fittening and road work right, and work out how best to manage the horse and you'll be able to have plenty of fun with him!


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## LizzieRC1313 (23 July 2015)

JenHunt said:



			i also know of a fair few who have hunted with navicular. Most are managed very carefully, given bute when necessary and given a good joint supplement too. 

one of ours has spavin in both hocks, and side bone in both fronts.... he still hunts, albeit that we pick and choose his days (the soft ground makes him sore) and he's not allowed to canter on roads. We also make sure he's not out for long days, especially when it's been fast and furious. 

as spacefaer says - get the fittening and road work right, and work out how best to manage the horse and you'll be able to have plenty of fun with him!
		
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Thanks for reply, I really really hope so. I think it's just going to be difficult to learn how best to manage him. She's spoken to hack up for a good joint supp for him. I suppose the worry is if he comes sound that he'll stay that way with the work she wants to do with him. We are aiming for the Cotswold team chase end of October and I just so so want her to be able to do it!!


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## JenHunt (24 July 2015)

it's just trial and error - we know that Tom dislikes the soft ground because it pulls at his sidebone - yours might be better because it is less jarring for him... 

the hack up supplement that we use has been amazing - so good in fact that Tom didn't need bute at all last winter. He has needed some over the last month though after he kicked himself! Typical!!

our vet has said he'd rather see a horse fit and out enjoying life with some pain killers to help him when necessary than turned away being a 'pet' for the sake of some careful management. If you're not competing under rules, then to my mind at least, it's no different from taking a pain killer for a headache and carrying on. If you get to a stage where he's needing bute daily to keep him comfortable then that's a different matter entirely and at that point it possibly is worth looking at the other options for him.


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## ester (24 July 2015)

How has he been diagnosed? MRI? Most navicular seems to have a soft tissue component. 

Is the horse shod? I'd strongly recommend getting to grips with the concept of barefoot if so , on the rockley blog and elsewhere.


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## LizzieRC1313 (24 July 2015)

JenHunt said:



			it's just trial and error - we know that Tom dislikes the soft ground because it pulls at his sidebone - yours might be better because it is less jarring for him... 

the hack up supplement that we use has been amazing - so good in fact that Tom didn't need bute at all last winter. He has needed some over the last month though after he kicked himself! Typical!!

our vet has said he'd rather see a horse fit and out enjoying life with some pain killers to help him when necessary than turned away being a 'pet' for the sake of some careful management. If you're not competing under rules, then to my mind at least, it's no different from taking a pain killer for a headache and carrying on. If you get to a stage where he's needing bute daily to keep him comfortable then that's a different matter entirely and at that point it possibly is worth looking at the other options for him.
		
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I agree with your vet and as we have no capacity really to turn them away so we have to hope he can still do some carefully managed work. I will let her know the good review on hack up! 



ester said:



			How has he been diagnosed? MRI? Most navicular seems to have a soft tissue component. 

Is the horse shod? I'd strongly recommend getting to grips with the concept of barefoot if so , on the rockley blog and elsewhere.
		
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Yes diagnosed at Newmarket - X-rays, nerve blocks and MRI. Yes there is ddft involvement. She is going to try remedial shoeing but barefoot has been discussed if he doesn't come sound with the shoes. We'd have no idea where to start with that though :/


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## ester (24 July 2015)

There is a lot of help and advice out there these days, some are a bit evangelical about it but plenty of us are quite normal. Those that are pushy are usually just like that because they were so pleased to have their horse back IMO . I'd take some time to do a bit of reading around (a search on this forum will bring up a fair amount, there is also a barefoot specific one where everyone is quite tame!) while you have shoes on so you know a bit more about it if you have to come back to that option.


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## spacefaer (24 July 2015)

ester said:



			There is a lot of help and advice out there these days, some are a bit evangelical about it but plenty of us are quite normal. Those that are pushy are usually just like that because they were so pleased to have their horse back IMO . I'd take some time to do a bit of reading around (a search on this forum will bring up a fair amount, there is also a barefoot specific one where everyone is quite tame!) while you have shoes on so you know a bit more about it if you have to come back to that option.
		
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Ester, I think you are the only poster on HHO who isn't completely over the top evangelical about barefoot - you appear quite rational and reasonable! !  ;-)


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## ester (25 July 2015)

Lol there are definitely a couple of others! 

I think it is important for people to know that it does come with blips and not all horses will then be able to canter over stoney terrain . Frank obviously hunts bare but it is a bit different when adrenalin cuts in . but said horse might still be a damn sight sounder than in shoes. I do think some sites tend to be a bit bias towards reporting on those that go back to full work as time goes on when if you speak to people they do have blips/some are not as successful as others though most are definitely better than they were. Also if Frank were less than 22 and we were competing on grass in the summer he would probably be shod for 6 months of the year, I know Goldenstar does this with one of her hunters. It's just about being sensible, thinking about long term benefits but not making them hobble round for months which is the impression some people have.

(and I also went the vet/bar shoe route first )


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## FemelleReynard (27 July 2015)

I'm glad to read this positive post. I bought a horse (who had hunted in his previous home) for similar reasons to your friend - to gain confidence and have a bit of fun with. Very similar circumstances - 8 months down the line he was diagnosed with coffin bone arthritis and I thought the world had ended. Been working with my very good vets to find a solution for this to make him comfortable and she's confident that when we find the correct management system to suit him there is no reason why he can't be carefully hunted and do the things I bought him for. It's refreshed to read other positive experiences, as he really is my dream horse and I was gutted when I thought he'd be no longer able to do what he loves.

After talking to Ester on a previous post, I've also been doing some reading into the barefoot movement and it is something I'd consider for his management - as long as it makes the horse comfortable and happy, I'd try anything!


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## mastermax (28 July 2015)

Folowing this post with great interest. I too have a horse of a lifetime DX november last year through xray and MRI. Been a rocky road with ups and downs but "at this present" moment he is sound and is showing at local level with great success. 
I changed his diet cut out any starch and sugar, fed only fibre. My woderful farrier has managed to get him to grow a good heel and he has been in normal shoes for a month now. My question is:-
I really want to do some gentle hnting on him for just a couple of hours at a time and vet and farrier say he shoud be fine but what happens when the rest of the field trot off up the road?
Stupid question, I know but I have a vision of them all trotting off and hiim being in a paddy behind?
Do any of you with Navicular horses do any road trotting?
TIA


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## ester (28 July 2015)

Honestly, I don't think I'd want to in shoes/I'd be worrying about it too much when doing it. 

I can also only tell you of my experience (not navi, reverse rotated pedal bones, low under run heels, coffin joint djd and probably collateral ligament strain) My farrier got Frank's heels looking much better in shoes, but he wasn't any sounder and I think it was only the 'shell' rather than the internal structures that had improved. It was only when he was able to get a good digital cushion going we could see improvement.


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## Clodagh (28 July 2015)

My b-in-law whips in on a horse with navicular, she was a freebie because of the lameness. She is now on her fourth full season whipping in and although isn't sound when first setting out she seems fine over all.
She doesn't hunt until after opening meet, does no road work to get fit, all menage, walker and field riding. Whipping in means he mainly stays on the fields, and bottomless plough suits her fine. She has a bute after a hard day but not as standard.


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## JenHunt (29 July 2015)

It all depends on the horse - our Tom (well both of them really) has been taught that we don't canter on roads so we follow on at a trot and use the verge where we can for a canter to catch up. but largely it's not a problem. If Ron thought I was holding him up we'd get an almighty strop from him and that's no fun for either of us (everyone else finds it entertaining though).


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## mastermax (29 July 2015)

Thank you everyone, sorry to have hi-jacked the post! I guess I will have to pick very carefully where we go. He is feeling SO well now that he can be difficult to hold back, bless him. He managed a cheeky little buck in his individual show at the weekend and to be honest it was an absolute pleasure to see!


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## Goldenstar (1 August 2015)

I would certainly give the horse a period without shoes if it where mine .
BF is not a difficult option but it is time consuming particularly at first .
At the end of every season my hunters have a six week break and then start gentle work BF until I need them for their jobs .
It means that it's basically half the year shod half the year working BF ( including a brief holiday ) although it varies a bit according to what's going on .
The time BF keeps their digital cushions strong and helps them keep decent heels .
However you might have to keep the BF a while the first time J had eighteen months then he went to a break from shoes every year .
He had horrendous unrun heels ,weedy digital cushions ,and almost no frogs when we started with him his walls where cracking away and he was lame after shoeing .
I think that 18 months  without shoes probably saved him .


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## Amicus (9 August 2015)

I've had some terrific days on a navicular diagnosed horse (rehabbed at Rockley) going on all surfaces and at all speeds without a worry has hunted several seasons without issues. 
I'd be concerned though about cracking on and hunting a horse that couldn't cope with hard ground though, I'd think your friend would be safer to stick to activities where it's easier to choose your ground or try the barefoot route so hard grounds no longer an issue.


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