# Another foreign rescue infected with Brucella canis



## skinnydipper (15 January 2022)

Posted on Facebook by Colin Stephen Spencer.  13.1.22

This is Jesse, some of you knew him some of you didn't. Rescued in November 2019 from Caki's dog rescue with "full backup".
Jesse settled quickly and relished life as a family dog, enjoying the school run, long walks and days out. He was extremely sociable and his fan club included the postman, binmen, delivery drivers, school children and parents. While walking he quite simply had to say hello to everyone. Anyone who doesn't like dogs was seen as a personal conquest to convert to full dog lover by Jesse.
Once Jesse was 18 months old we noticed that he would yelp in pain sometimes when touched and then sit down, he then became ill with a fever and stopped eating. Off we went to the vets, antibiotics and painkillers as well as an appointment for manipulation and X rays, while anaesthetised we decided to castrate him. The vet called a few days later to say she would get a second opinion from an orthopaedic vet. Then called later that week to say that Jesse had discospondylitis or changes in one of the disc spaces in his spine. More antibiotics and pain killers as well as a discussion about treatment.
Conservative treatment was decided appropriate at this time. All was well for a few months but then symptoms returned, bloods were taken and sent away.
The vets called me the day before Christmas eve and as I was greeted with Mr Spencer I knew that this would be a difficult conversation
I'm afraid that Jesse has brucella canis.
Oh at least we know what's wrong.
I'm afraid it's serious I have had to report it to defra and you must stop Jesse from socialising with dogs and people as well as inform any owners of dogs that Jesse socialises with so that they can be tested. I must tell you that ideally Jesse will need to be euthanised.
Boom, I spoke with Alison and Lilly to explain how grave it was, we cried in the kitchen. Off I went to inform Jesse's 3 buddies before curtailing Christmas plans and starting research into brucella canis. None of it was good reading. Acting like an STD in dogs it can be spread through bodily fluids especially sperm or birthing fluid but also blood and saliva.
The vet informed me that it could also be passed to humans, that I should seek advice on getting ourselves tested and that herself and her assisting nurse required testing.
I informed Caki's dog rescue to be told by Jayne Hobbs that it wasn't known about in 2019 (first case 1968). And that it was my fault that the vets were put at risk because I decided to castrate Jesse!
Erm I have a contract of adoption requiring that I have him castrated.
What insurance does the rescue have?
None, Diane Baker will be dealing with it.
Well it's been 3 weeks and I have heard nothing.
Also despite adopting Jesse, facilitating my friend adopting a dog, sending drugs to help and supporting fundraising efforts Fahrudin Caki Bravo hasn't bothered with a simple message let alone any practical offers of help regarding not only Jesse's mounting bills (nearly £2000) but also the £450 for testing the other dogs that he may have infected or any reassurance that future imports will be tested or that current owners of Caki's dogs will be informed, especially Jesse's 3 siblings who almost certainly carry the infection.
Between Christmas and New year the vet and I researched and got advice, again none of it was good and ultimately we decided that Jesse couldn't live with the restrictions and most definitely couldn't be in pain.
I had a long tough talk with Alison and Lilly and we agreed that we had to let him go. We cried again.
After school today we took Jesse as a family to the vets, we sat on the floor with him, fed him treats, cuddled, stroked and reassured him and slowly let him fall asleep.
We came home without him and the house is empty, goodbye buddy.
This disease is not endemic in the UK and it doesn't need to be, there is clear government advice to test dogs before import or breeding. Advice that some rescues follow....
Please if you are going to get a rescue from another country demand a negative brucella canis test and be prepared to repeat the test in 3 months if this is not forthcoming go to someone else.
It is too late for Jesse. However his legacy so far is that his vets have clear robust policies in place to protect themselves and others from possibly infected dogs from abroad.
And I hope that this post manages to inform and then ultimately stop one family from going through what we went through today, with that in mind please feel free to share.
If you import dogs then do the right thing, improve your health checks and test for brucella canis.
For my medical colleagues:- brucella canis exposure may result in human infection.
Symptoms are non specific but may include intermittent fever, chills, malaise, splenomegaly as well as peripheral lymphadenopathy.
The incubation period is weeks to years and symptoms may present suddenly or gradually and may be recurrent or persistent.
Children under 5 and immunocompromised patients may be most at risk and infection of pregnant women may cause adverse pregnancy outcomes.
So may be worth discussing pets, especially breeding or birthing dogs as well as repeated or prolonged exposure, (vets, vet nurses, kennel workers, rescue staff).
Blood cultures with brucella canis label and a referral to microbiology possibly?
Brucella Canis Guidance and Support
https://www.gov.uk/.../hairs-risk-statement-brucella-canis


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## MotherOfChickens (15 January 2022)

Gah, poor family and poor pup. These rescues make me cross that they are so wilfully ignorant and not being totally transparen.


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## MareOfDiomedes (15 January 2022)

Awful awful awful


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## MurphysMinder (15 January 2022)

So sad,  and I suspect there will be many more.   So many of these foreign rescues are totally unscrupulous and I believe are  just in it for the money.   I have friends who foster for a well know UK charity and they have had several pups that have been seized at the border with incorrect paperwork,  I dread to think how many more weren't stopped, I'm  just waiting for the day when we rabies reaches our shores again .


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## Pearlsasinger (15 January 2022)

I really don't know why people insist on 'rescuing' from abroad when there are plenty of dogs here looking for a home. Although I do understand that many organisations don't help themselves.


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## skinnydipper (15 January 2022)

I've shared this link before but folk may have missed it.

Of particular interest if you have, or are thinking of adopting, a foreign rescue.

https://www.facebook.com/watch/live/?ref=watch_permalink&v=534991827888386


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## Clodagh (15 January 2022)

It so awful. They must have loved him so much.


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## Moobli (15 January 2022)

That’s so incredibly sad 😞


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## TheOldTrout (16 January 2022)

Poor family and poor dog. What awful people at the 'rescue'.


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## twiggy2 (16 January 2022)

How very sad


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## Firefly9410 (16 January 2022)

Rescue dogs from abroad should be banned. We have enough unwanted animals already in the country we do not need to be bringing in from another country. People are cheapskates. They do not meet the criteria for a UK rescue dog and they will not pay for a breed so they get a foreign rescue because it is cheaper and less hoops to jump through, then they wonder why things like this happen. Lovely they told the owners of his main buddies but what about all the other dogs and people their dog licked? Obviously it is too many and random strangers who they do not know too. These owners have done their best and I am sorry for them and their dog. 

The government needs to ban rescue imports. UK people are used to UK standards, they do not realise other countries do not always share the same standards. People blindly trust where they should not and it does not occur to them that they cannot trust the standards are ok.


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## skinnydipper (16 January 2022)

I think the main problem is that Joe Bloggs will not have heard of Brucella canis.  If they have, they may not realise how transmissible it is or the implications for their dog if it were to become infected - effectively house arrest.  It should not have contact with other dogs or go to places used by other dogs.

Brucella canis can be shed in bodily fluids including blood, saliva and urine.

One of the ways a dog can become infected is through inhalation and we all know how dogs like to sniff.

Dogs are considered infected for life as they can continue to shed, even following antimicrobial treatment.

There have already been cases of within-UK transmission.

Here is some further information:

http://apha.defra.gov.uk/documents/surveillance/diseases/Canine-Brucellosis-Summary-Final-260421.pdf


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## Amymay (16 January 2022)

Firefly9410 said:



			Rescue dogs from abroad should be banned. We have enough unwanted animals already in the country we do not need to be bringing in from another country. People are cheapskates. They do not meet the criteria for a UK rescue dog and they will not pay for a breed so they get a foreign rescue because it is cheaper and less hoops to jump through, then they wonder why things like this happen. Lovely they told the owners of his main buddies but what about all the other dogs and people their dog licked? Obviously it is too many and random strangers who they do not know too. These owners have done their best and I am sorry for them and their dog.

The government needs to ban rescue imports. UK people are used to UK standards, they do not realise other countries do not always share the same standards. People blindly trust where they should not and it does not occur to them that they cannot trust the standards are ok.
		
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Whilst I don’t disagree with you in principle, the cheapskate statement is pretty incorrect.  It can cost £100’s to get a foreign rescue - far more than adopting from the UK.

There are many reasons people look abroad for getting their dog.  Money is almost never one of those reasons.


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## MurphysMinder (16 January 2022)

Amymay said:



			Whilst I don’t disagree with you in principle, the cheapskate statement is pretty incorrect.  It can cost £100’s to get a foreign rescue - far more than adopting from the UK.

There are many reasons people look abroad for getting their dog.  Money is almost never one of those reasons.
		
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This isn't always the case ,  I  have heard of people getting foreign rescues for around £300,  which makes you wonder how many corners are being cut.


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## skinnydipper (16 January 2022)

Those of you who work with dogs - groomers, dog care and so on, do you ask to see the health test certificates of imported dogs?  Would you know if the dog imported from Eastern Europe that you care for has been tested for Brucellosis?

Owners on the forum.  Do you know whether the dog you have adopted from Eastern Europe has been tested for Brucella canis?


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## Amymay (16 January 2022)

skinnydipper said:



			Those of you who work with dogs - groomers, dog care and so on, do you ask to see the health test certificates of imported dogs?  Would you know if the dog imported from Eastern Europe that you care for has been tested for Brucellosis?

Owners on the forum.  Do you know whether the dog you have adopted from Eastern Europe has been tested for Brucella canis?
		
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That’s a really good question.


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## Firefly9410 (16 January 2022)

Amymay said:



			Whilst I don’t disagree with you in principle, the cheapskate statement is pretty incorrect.  It can cost £100’s to get a foreign rescue - far more than adopting from the UK.

There are many reasons people look abroad for getting their dog.  Money is almost never one of those reasons.
		
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And far cheaper than purchase a breed from the UK in many instances, which is the point I was making. UK rescues being very strict with the criteria for adoption and many people not being eligible. Lots go for the cheapest option.


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## Amymay (16 January 2022)

Firefly9410 said:



			And far cheaper than purchase a breed from the UK in many instances, which is the point I was making. UK rescues being very strict with the criteria for adoption and many people not being eligible. Lots go for the cheapest option.
		
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People opt to get a rescue dog for the very reason of getting a _rescue_, not buying from a breeder.


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## MissTyc (16 January 2022)

Amymay said:



			People opt to get a rescue dog for the very reason of getting a _rescue_, not buying from a breeder.
		
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This.

You can get a cheap UK puppy from Gumtree any day of the week. There is a litter advertised locally. "JackChi", they were £800 at 8 weeks, now two unsold are down to £500 at 13 weeks. That's about what it costs to import a dog in these Brexit days!


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## maisie06 (16 January 2022)

Pearlsasinger said:



			I really don't know why people insist on 'rescuing' from abroad when there are plenty of dogs here looking for a home. Although I do understand that many organisations don't help themselves.
		
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Because UK rescue centres make it damn nigh impossible to rescue a dog unless you are very active, retired, don't dare work, have £££££'s in the bank and leave them your house in your will.


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## The Fuzzy Furry (16 January 2022)

skinnydipper said:



			Those of you who work with dogs - groomers, dog care and so on, do you ask to see the health test certificates of imported dogs?  Would you know if the dog imported from Eastern Europe that you care for has been tested for Brucellosis?

Owners on the forum.  Do you know whether the dog you have adopted from Eastern Europe has been tested for Brucella canis?
		
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A very good question.

The groomer I use wont take on any dog unless there is proof of routine vaccs (she boards as well). Interestingly,  she will not board or groom any foreign imports  (most owners proudly reel it off to start with anyway).
She's not taken on new clients in ages for grooming, its damned hard to get on her list!


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## Gloi (16 January 2022)

I totally agree with banning the import of foreign rescues. Who can believe the stories they spin anyway. How many Eastern European dogs are simply bred to make money selling as rescues ?


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## skinnydipper (16 January 2022)

It is the disease aspect that concerns me and the fact that rescue organisations are not honest with the adopters

They will say, for instance, that the dog has been tested for leishmaniasis, but fail to say that a negative test at the time of adoption means nothing.  That the dog could test negative for years and then the disease raise its ugly head 7 years later.

At least with leishmaniasis there is less likelihood of dog to dog transmission or infecting a human.  Not so with Brucella canis, when a dog could be infected simply by playing with an infected dog (and who knows which they are?).  It is also zoonotic and could make people very ill.


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## Caol Ila (17 January 2022)

If UK rescues made it feasable for normal working people to adopt a dog, I doubt there would be so many foreign rescues. One friend was turned down because she lives alone and works full time as a doctor. She has a trusted dog walker, but nope. Another friend, a vet student, was turned down because she was a student. A fellow livery was turned down because she was over 60. All three were experienced dog owners.

So if you're too young, too old, too single, and have a day job, you're not eligible. 

None of these people wanted to drop a grand or three on a purebred puppy, which seems to be the going rate.


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## skinnydipper (17 January 2022)

I think people are getting a little over excited about the wrong 2 words so let's try to refocus.

Forget "Rescue Dog"

Try "Brucella canis"

I have some suggestions, feel free to add to them.

1.  All dogs to undergo mandatory testing before importation.  Dogs with positive serology to be refused entry.

That is ALL dogs to be tested, whether it be a stud dog, rescue dog or some poor docked and cropped Dobermann from Serbia.

2.  Imported dogs already in the UK.  Serology test to be arranged by the vet the dog is registered with in the UK.  If positive, then further tests to be undertaken to confirm diagnosis.

3.  Facilities for dogs - dog care, groomers, training clubs, etc,  to ask for proof of negative test - I don't know how feasible that is but presumably they already ask to see proof of vaccination.

_For those that do not "know" me on the forum.  I had a houseful of rescue dogs - I have one now.  I have no problem with rescue dogs.   _

_What I do have a problem with is dogs carrying disease into the UK.  Diseases which are not prevalent here.   _

_Neither Brucellosis nor Leishmaniasis will be cheap to treat, neither can be "cured",  and it isn't hard to see the heartbreak of the family of a dog diagnosed with Brucellosis. We should be doing what we can to make sure these diseases do not gain a foothold here._


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## druid (17 January 2022)

skinnydipper said:



			Those of you who work with dogs - groomers, dog care and so on, do you ask to see the health test certificates of imported dogs?  Would you know if the dog imported from Eastern Europe that you care for has been tested for Brucellosis?
		
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Yep - if it's an import they get asked and I won't do any repro work on dogs that are untested.


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## Birker2020 (17 January 2022)

Pearlsasinger said:



			I really don't know why people insist on 'rescuing' from abroad when there are plenty of dogs here looking for a home. Although I do understand that many organisations don't help themselves.
		
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Probably because its almost impossible to rescue a dog these days with the amount of paperwork that one has to go through, I know from my friends Mum and Dad's dreadful experience. In the end they had to adopt from abroad.


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## Amymay (17 January 2022)

Birker2020 said:



			Probably because its almost impossible to rescue a dog these days with the amount of paperwork that one has to go through, I know from my friends Mum and Dad's dreadful experience. In the end they had to adopt from abroad.
		
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There are still plenty of smaller rescues nationwide that are a bit more realistic about peoples circumstances.


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## CorvusCorax (17 January 2022)

My Mum got a dog relatively easy from a smaller private rescue. Even the private rescues get a tonne of bouncebacks, I can sorta see why they are cautious. A rescue which rehomes a dog to someone with an unsecure garden, the dog gets out and bites someone, the rescue is partially liable, surely?
And judging by some of the posts on the forum, the aftercare/back-up from some of the foreign rescue places is not excellent.
Apart from disease control, I repeat again that transporting some of these dogs, many of which have never been indoors and have been feral for generations, across land and sea in a cage in a vehicle and then expecting them to fit seamlessly into a pet home, is nothing short of cruelty IMO. That type of travel is stressful for the most well-adjusted dog.
A lot of these places are expecting novice or first time dog owners to be able to cope with a dog which has experienced trauma that even an experienced owner would have difficulty rehabbing and that isn't fair on anyone, let alone the dog.


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## Odyssey (17 January 2022)

The big rescues are difficult to adopt from, but the independent local ones are usually a lot more flexible. There are 3 small rescues within about 10 miles of me, and the same number of greyhound rehoming kennels which all have realistic rehoming policies, so unless you live in the back of beyond it is possible to get a rescue dog if you're not considered to be the perfect owner by some rehoming centres. 

I know that greyhounds aren't everyone's cup of tea or suitable for all lifestyles, but they really are the most gorgeous, sweet and usually undemanding of dogs with great personalities. I now have my 5th, and can't imagine having another breed. Their prey drive (which isn't strong in all of them) and their size are their only real drawbacks imo. They're generally very healthy, and if you don't want to walk for miles a day most are quite happy with less than an hours exercise a day. Sorry, couldn't miss the chance of giving this much underrated breed a plug!


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## meleeka (17 January 2022)

I wouldn’t rehome from abroad and the disease risk is one of the reasons.  Another is the fact that almost daily there’s one that’s escaped that then goes missing for weeks.  It’s also very difficult to sort the reputable suppliers from the low end dealers.


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## splashgirl45 (17 January 2022)

i am very against foreign dogs being bought over here mainly because of the disease element..i am another who tried to get a rescue dog but was not successful, i gave up and bought a crossbreed puppy.  i see a few of these foreign dogs and the people tell me straight away that they are rescues like its a badge of honour and they look down on anyone who doesnt rescue...many of them are very nervous and scared of people which isnt surprising and i agree with a previous poster who think its cruel to subject them to a long journey and then expect them to live in a house.  a friend of mine adopted a romanian dog and it was petrified of everything.  it was really scared being in the house and only wanted to stay hiding in the garden, it took her months before she allowed my friend to give her a treat and she was really frightened of her husband and never accepted him at all.  eventually my friend, an experienced dog owner, felt she didnt have the knowledge to help this dog and she has now gone a dog behaviourist who is going to keep her.  my friend has now said she will never adopt again as she feels so useless....


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## Pearlsasinger (17 January 2022)

meleeka said:



			I wouldn’t rehome from abroad and the disease risk is one of the reasons.  Another is the fact that almost daily there’s one that’s escaped that then goes missing for weeks.  It’s also very difficult to sort the reputable suppliers from the low end dealers.
		
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A relative has taken on a failed 'rescue' from abroad.  The woman he was with hadn't a clue.  The organisation that brought him from Spain had obviously not done much to find him an appropriate home, or to support the rehomer.  I don't think they know where the dog is now.  He will be fine, he is living with other dogs and a very experienced owner and seems to have settled well, although he certainly hasn't been allowed off lead, except in a secure space.


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## DressageCob (17 January 2022)

I looked at getting a foreign rescue before I bought my dog, but then started investigating the disease risk and it just wasn't worth it. I can understand why people get tempted, with sob stories of conditions abroad and photos of the sad dog and stray dogs on the streets. But I'd like it to be banned, or otherwise very heavily regulated. I'm all for supporting rescue centres, investing in making conditions better abroad etc. But we need to protect the canine population here. 

I feel the same about all the cropped and docked mastiffs and dobes people import too; in fact, I suspect they get even less testing than the rescue dogs.


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## skinnydipper (18 January 2022)

When adopting a foreign rescue then screening before adoption should ideally include:

Brucella canis
Leishmania
Babesia
Heartworm
Ehrlichia canis and anaplasma
Hepatozoon canis

Ask for proof of testing - this would be a copy of the lab reports.

Rabies vaccination and preventative treatment against tapeworm (Echinococcus multilocularis) must be given before travel.

The rabies vaccination must be at least 21 days before travel.

Travel from some countries requires a blood test 21 days following the rabies vaccination to check the antibody level and confirm vaccination was successful.  You must obtain a copy of the test result.


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## CorvusCorax (18 January 2022)

I was contacted recently by a departmental vet looking for an address so they could do a post-import check on a pup (private sale) and the destination address wasn't legible on the paperwork, naughty naughty. All sorted, thankfully.
Someone also came looking for training a while back, they turned up without the dogs because the two dobes they had imported from Romania had been impounded and quarantined because their paperwork wasn't right. Hard nope.
I remember being at a competition years ago and the whole Russian team was sent home because their rabies documentation was incorrect. I can't understand when the rules are so tight for private/competition dogs but not for rescues. I have to take dogs out of my vehicle and chip them individually and hand passports over to staff either in kiosks or in terminals, how does that work for a van full of nervous rescue dogs with people they may not know? I have been stopped randomly on the way in and out of terminals also so that people could look inside and get barked at, I suppose it is apparent that there are dogs in my vehicle and I always display the PETS tag.
And based on my last experience of travelling abroad back in 2019, I wonder if they are routinely being let out to clean themselves during long ferry journeys because no one came down to a big white van full of dogs on the pet deck the last time I sailed, during the journey.


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## skinnydipper (18 January 2022)

Why would anyone not want to check that their potential new friend had been tested for disease endemic in the country of origin?  Disease that would make the dog ill and possibly humans too.  Crazy.


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## Clodagh (18 January 2022)

skinnydipper said:



			Why would anyone not want to check that their potential new friend had been tested for disease endemic in the country of origin?  Disease that would make the dog ill and possibly humans too.  Crazy.
		
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Head in sand and saving the little fluffy.
People genuinely interested in foreign dog welfare can support ethical charities that address the issue (humane pts, neutering) in the country of origin. However that isn’t so obvious that you are a good person.
Off to pat my puppy farmer cockerpoos now 🙄


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## skinnydipper (18 January 2022)

Clodagh said:



			Off to pat my puppy farmer cockerpoos now
		
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  Thanks for the laugh, Clodagh.


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## splashgirl45 (18 January 2022)

Clodagh said:



			Head in sand and saving the little fluffy.
People genuinely interested in foreign dog welfare can support ethical charities that address the issue (humane pts, neutering) in the country of origin. However that isn’t so obvious that you are a good person.
Off to pat my puppy farmer cockerpoos now 🙄
		
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exactly this,  i would be happy to contribute to humane pts,neutering etc to help the dogs in foreign countries but it seems that the rescues have an unlimited supply of puppies that they are selling so neutering wouldnt be popular with them..


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## Smitty (18 January 2022)

I expect that there are a lot of well meaning people embracing the 'Adopt Don't Shop' stuff that is going around and maybe not wanting a larger bull type breed typical in the rescues in my area, that go for the rescues from abroad.  

I expect they have absolutely no idea of the diseases prevalent abroad and trust the rescues implicitly.  

In all fairness, I doubt the majority of these well meaning people would wish to bring a dog into their family that had a limited lifespan.  

The problem is that there is not the 'hype' out there with regards the problems and possible diseases.


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## MotherOfChickens (18 January 2022)

skinnydipper said:



			Why would anyone not want to check that their potential new friend had been tested for disease endemic in the country of origin?  Disease that would make the dog ill and possibly humans too.  Crazy.
		
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an awful lot of people don't know that there are diseases to be worried about apart from rabies (which is the one I am least worried about). And the charities are not telling them or the charities tell them that the diseases are asymptomatic/easily treated (in the case of leish).

Honestly, I think a big public campaign with lots of close ups of eye worms might help.


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## splashgirl45 (18 January 2022)

agree MOC,  there needs to be much more info about what can happen regarding diseases which are being bought over here.  i worry about my 2 little terriers when there are so many foreign rescues about, but the dog owners trust the rescues and dont question anything as they want their pretty puppy..


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## Smitty (18 January 2022)

MotherOfChickens said:



			an awful lot of people don't know that there are diseases to be worried about apart from rabies (which is the one I am least worried about). And the charities are not telling them or the charities tell them that the diseases are asymptomatic/easily treated (in the case of leish).

Honestly, I think a big public campaign with lots of close ups of eye worms might help.
		
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What the bl×××××dy hell is an eye worm?😯


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## Clodagh (18 January 2022)

Smitty said:



			What the bl×××××dy hell is an eye worm?😯
		
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Don’t Google it. I did last time it was mentioned on here 🤢


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## Smitty (18 January 2022)

Clodagh said:



			Don’t Google it. I did last time it was mentioned on here 🤢
		
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Well, obviously I will now have to ...


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## Smitty (18 January 2022)

Euwwww


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## MotherOfChickens (18 January 2022)

Clodagh said:



			Don’t Google it. I did last time it was mentioned on here 🤢
		
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## Smitty (18 January 2022)

Every day is a school day!!


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## ester (18 January 2022)

what it says on the tin lol.


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## Clodagh (18 January 2022)

Here you go responsible rescuers…poor little bitch.


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## skinnydipper (18 January 2022)

Clodagh said:



			Here you go responsible rescuers…poor little bitch.
		
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Poor little soul.  Being passed from pillar to post is going to do her the world of good isn't it? 

Hopefully her next home will give her time to settle down and gain confidence.


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## turkana (21 January 2022)

I have a Romanian rescue (I actually feel embarrased when I tell people as I don't want to be lumped in with the people who like to brag about it) she had a similar experience as the poor dog Clodagh's post. She was rehomed but that home didn't work out, so the person advertised her for sale for £500, not sure who they expected to pay £500 for a Romanian stray! Nobody bought her so they approached me when they found out my dog had recently been put down due to cancer.
They were so keen to get rid that the dog was given to me; she is much loved & is a super dog but wouldn't be for everybody as she's a mixure of guarding & hunting breeds. I hope that poor dog is as lucky as mine


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## rara007 (21 January 2022)

It’s a weird industry. And yes I do think the majority are commercial not genuinely working for the welfare of the dogs (which could be much better supported for the population via in situ neutering than importing). Both disease and behaviour wise the vast majority of the adopters seem totally clueless about, or have been totally misled and not through innocence.


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## skinnydipper (9 June 2022)

Fosterer infected with brucella

"The recent case of human Brucella, if confirmed as the Canis strain, poses many questions which can no longer be ignored. If not Canis or Abortus contracted from the foster dog, it must be considered that it could have been and lessons must be learnt.

The rescue involved messaged adopters after a foster was hospitalised and tested positive for Brucella. A sample is being cultured to confirm the strain but as this rescue brought in several pregnant bitches to foster, including one who aborted and I am led to believe the person who was hospitalised had fostered the dog who miscarried therefore, Canis must be considered."

Read more here:

https://www.facebook.com/barnabyslaw


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## Birker2020 (9 June 2022)

Clodagh said:



			Here you go responsible rescuers…poor little bitch.
		
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That's a bit judgemental.  Maybe they had a family bereavement or have lost their house or something like that.


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## MiJodsR2BlinkinTite (9 June 2022)

So very sorry. I took on a Cyprus Rescue and have never heard of this disease.

Thanks for thinking to raise awareness even though you're going through sadness at this time.


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## Amymay (9 June 2022)

Birker2020 said:



			That's a bit judgemental.  Maybe they had a family bereavement or have lost their house or something like that.
		
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All a possibility. But of course the dog should have gone back to the original rescue.


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## CorvusCorax (9 June 2022)

And not charge £430 for it.


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## skinnydipper (9 June 2022)

Birker2020 said:



			That's a bit judgemental.  Maybe they had a family bereavement or have lost their house or something like that.
		
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Isn't a fosterer infected with brucella more concerning than a comment made by Clodagh in January?


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## Clodagh (9 June 2022)

skinnydipper said:



			Isn't a fosterer infected with brucella more concerning than a comment made by Clodagh in January?
		
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I’ll cope 😄


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## CorvusCorax (9 June 2022)

I called my Dad and chatted about this, he knew of a few farmers who contracted the bovine form.
Testing cattle for it was one of his day jobs years ago.


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## Errin Paddywack (9 June 2022)

My vet had it.  I believe it caused him to have spells of flu like symptoms.  It was a hazard of the job at the time.


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## Clodagh (9 June 2022)

Didn’t James Herriot have it? He used to have spells of delirium. I haven’t read them for years.


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## skinnydipper (9 June 2022)

Found this info on a fact sheet produced by New Jersey Dept of Health

"Clinical Signs of Canine Brucellosis in People 

The most common signs we see with human infection include fever, chills, lethargy, headache, weakness, muscle aches, and swollen lymph nodes. In more severe infections, joints, bones, or heart valves may be affected. Signs may appear anywhere from 3 weeks up to several months after infection. People who may have been exposed to B. canis from their dog should consult with their physician, especially if they are showing clinical signs compatible with brucellosis. It is important to let their physician know about the canine brucellosis exposure. Children and immunosuppressed individuals may be at the highest risk of infection. It is important to know that currently available human antibody tests for brucellosis cannot detect antibodies to Brucella canis. These tests work when people are infected by a different species of Brucella, but not B. canis. For this reason it is important to consult with your physician about performing other diagnostic tests, such as a blood culture. Physicians can contact the New Jersey Department of Health for information on appropriate Brucellosis testing."

https://www.nj.gov/health/cd/docume...ellosis Fact Sheet- general public- NJDOH.pdf


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## Birker2020 (9 June 2022)

skinnydipper said:



			Isn't a fosterer infected with brucella more concerning than a comment made by Clodagh in January?
		
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Didnt even see it was in January thank you


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## conniegirl (9 June 2022)

Amymay said:



			There are still plenty of smaller rescues nationwide that are a bit more realistic about peoples circumstances.
		
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I haven’t found one near me unless you want a staffy or staffy cross of unknown origin and uncertain temprement.

i am also a failed rescuer (though only uk rescues) so I privately rehomed 2 beautiful, wonderful dogs whose owners were going through incredibly hard times.

had i not managed to find these then i probably would have bought a puppy.

at the tome we were a young couple who owned thier own home, had 6ft fences round the garden, tons of experience with difficult dogs and plenty of time. We were refused because we both work.


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## Tiddlypom (9 June 2022)

Errin Paddywack said:



			My vet had it.  I believe it caused him to have spells of flu like symptoms.  It was a hazard of the job at the time.
		
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And mine. He would be pretty ill with it when it flared up.


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## Dobiegirl (10 June 2022)

So it appears we may have the first human case of Brucella Canis in the UK. The woman is out of hospital and recovering but this should never have happened and sadly it’s the tip of the iceberg unless DEFRA act and sooner than later! My vets contacted me back last year knowing I had a foreign rescue dog and asking me to get her tested and it was now their policy not to operate on any dog unless they had been tested. I had Zara tested both swab test and a blood test which had to go to a government lab, thankfully she tested negative. A lot of rescues were bringing dogs in which were not tested and some even had failed titre tests for rabies. The implications for humans,all mammals and wildlife is too horrific to contemplate. There is a ban in place atm for all commercial travel for dogs,cats etc which came about because transport was seized with rescue dogs which were non compliant with the above diseases . These rescues caused this which is impacting responsible rescues who have always followed the rules, these non compliant rescues put every living thing in danger, they are not rescue they are pet dealers who are making lots and lots of money. Often these rescue do not offer rescue back up if the adoption doesnt work out so it falls to other rescues to step in and take responsibility for these dogs. Because these irresponsible  so called rescues are only interested in the money they are not fussy who adopts their dogs. The new adopters are very often not given good advice and its become more and more frequent that these dogs escape after a few days sometimes even on the first day to roam into the countryside with all the implications on the wildlife and other animals they may come into contact with.


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## CorvusCorax (10 June 2022)

Is all commercial travel banned or is it just to the UK from certain countries?


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## CorvusCorax (10 June 2022)

Tiddlypom said:



			And mine. He would be pretty ill with it when it flared up.
		
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Dad said at least one of 'his' farmers got it from drinking unpasteurised milk.


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## Dobiegirl (10 June 2022)

CorvusCorax said:



			Is all commercial travel banned or is it just to the UK from certain countries?[/QUOTE Only certain countries, even now some of these rescues are trying to circumnavigate around the restrictions. Rescue are classed as commercial but it is not affecting pets travelling with pet passports, so with this in mind at least one rescue that I know of has sent an adopter to Calais to pick up her dog. 

APHA & DEFRA are fully aware of these rescues bringing in non-compliant dogs but because of lack of funding/man power etc even when they have been given the heads up which included reg numbers they failed to act. Rescues are bringing in more and more puppies and the general consensus is they are being bred for this. With the numbers being brought over here and abroad and TNR numbers should be falling but they are not.

https://www.facebook.com/barnabyslaw read lots more here  about how one woman is trying so hard to end this illegal trade, she has has been threatened many times because make no mistake about it there is a lot of money being made.
		
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## CorvusCorax (10 June 2022)

Not commenting directly on this case but it is absolutely often an industry and I do worry about what some puppy farm and 'rescue' operations are funding.

As I've said before it's infuriating when some of us have to jump through hoops with a small number of well cared for, healthy, much loved dogs when some punter can just drive a van full of poor, diseased animals covered in their own mess (as if they get out to clean themselves regularly!!) through on an industrial scale, because it's too much bother to check them all.

And they pull on the heartstrings of the UK public, who think they are doing a kind thing. I think people should be careful to make sure they are not supporting what could be nothing more than a criminal enterprise.


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## splashgirl45 (10 June 2022)

i think lots of these so called rescues are just money making machines and the poor dogs are the losers as well as the people who fall for their marketing.  they proudly say they have a foreign rescue and seem to look down on anyone who buys a puppy in the UK..i have spoken to people who have these rescues and quite a few of them have been petrified of everything and bolt the minute they can.  there doesnt seem to be any back up from the rescues either, once they have their money they dont want to know.  its so sad and its about time the ports pulled their socks up as well...


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## skinnydipper (10 June 2022)

Some chronically infected dogs can be asymptomatic and still infect humans and other dogs. 

With this in mind, will those who have adopted dogs from high risk countries be making arrangements to have their dogs tested?


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## Clodagh (10 June 2022)

skinnydipper said:



			Some chronically infected dogs can be asymptomatic and still infect humans and other dogs.

With this in mind, will those who have adopted dogs from high risk countries be making arrangements to have their dogs tested?
		
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I bet not, as they are nicer people (than the bulk of us) which exonerates them from responsibility.


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## Dobiegirl (10 June 2022)

skinnydipper said:



			Some chronically infected dogs can be asymptomatic and still infect humans and other dogs.

With this in mind, will those who have adopted dogs from high risk countries be making arrangements to have their dogs tested?
		
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I had an email from my vet suggesting I get her tested, its my understanding the BVA were going to contact all vets to contact their clients over it. I asked my vet if many people had responded and they said not that many which will be a problem if that dog requires an operation as they wont operate without a test.


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## skinnydipper (10 June 2022)

Dobiegirl, I think your vet may be exceptional.

Could anyone else who has adopted from brucella canis endemic countries please confirm if their vet has contacted them to arrange testing.


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## skinnydipper (10 June 2022)

Areas currently listed as high risk are:

the Mediterranean Basin (Portugal, Spain, Southern France, Italy, Greece, Turkey, North Africa)
Mexico, South and Central America
Eastern Europe
Asia
Africa
The Caribbean
The Middle East
https://www.cdc.gov/brucellosis/exposure/areas.html


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## Dobiegirl (10 June 2022)

skinnydipper said:



			Dobiegirl, I think your vet may be exceptional.

They are, Langford which is a big teaching hospital., they told me they contacted all the vets in their area when they had 2 cases. I sent them an email after receiving theirs asking me to test my dog and I sent them loads of questions which they answered very thoroughly. Atm I have a problem with my normal laptop so cant get into my emails because I was going to copy and paste them on here for peoples information.
		
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## Mrs. Jingle (10 June 2022)

My farmer neighbour caught Brucellosis several years ago, he was very poorly and in hospital for a long time. He is generally Ok now, but still has relapses when he is totally bedridden for several days in great pain and very ill. Horrible disease.

Something that I have wondered about, and really don't want to side track from the point of this very important and informative thread, but what happens to the various pets that have come into both Ireland and the UK with their Ukrainian owners? Do they go into quarantine? Are they tested for various diseases etc.  Would be interested if anybody has an answer on that?


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## Dobiegirl (10 June 2022)

Brucella in Dogs
Important Information
Dear practice client,
The UK has recently seen an increase in the number of dogs presenting with symptomatic Brucella canis. There are several species of Brucella which affect a wide range of animal species, including people. We have been screening cattle for Brucella infection for a number of years and have a national protocol in place to protect people from cross infection from cattle or cattle products such as milk.
Brucella canis is endemic in various countries including parts of the EU, the incidence in the UK is generally considered to be very low. It is mostly transmitted dog to dog by sexual contact. The most common symptoms affect the sex organs but sometimes the infection can cause inflammation elsewhere in the body, most commonly the spine causing severe spinal pain and paralysis.
Infected dogs pose a risk to humans, with vets (particularly during surgery) and lab staff (handling blood and urine samples) at highest risk. Although rare, the consequences of human infection can be very severe and can lead to death. Appropriate antibiotic treatment is normally successful in treating human patients.
Infected dogs can remain asymptomatic (not show any symptoms) and infection can be lifelong. It is not normally possible to cure the infection in dogs. Unfortunately, due to the risk to people, it is generally recommended that infected dogs are euthanised, especially if they have painful symptoms.
What should we do about Brucella canis?
Infection is rare in the UK but higher if the patient has been imported from another country or travelled. We require Brucella canis screening tests before carrying out any surgical or laboratory tests in all dogs that have been outside the UK.
It is helpful if we can take samples for testing before the patient is ill, as treatment may have to be delayed until results are back, which may worsen outcomes.
If your dog has been outside the UK please contact the practice to book a blood test to screen for Brucella canis.
Screening for other infectious disease may also be appropriate for if your dog has been imported from a higher risk country.
Dogs that are ill from Brucella canis normally present with the following symptoms although many dogs are asymptomatic:
Neck or Spinal Pain
Swelling and/or Pain in the testicles
Discharge from the Penis or Vulva
Infertility or abortion
Eye pain or inflammation (uveitis)
Any dog that presents to the clinic with these symptoms will be required to screen for Brucella canis
The cost of Brucella canis screening is typically around £80. This involves a simple blood sample, collected by the Vet or Vet Nurse. An initial Lateral flow test (LFT) normally gives a same day result which can allow some treatments to go ahead if the patient is considered low risk. The remaining sample is sent to APHA (part of the government Department for Environment and Rural Affairs) for confirmatory tests which can take several days to give results.
Small Animal Practice
Langford House
Langford
BS40 5DU
T: 01934 852 422
E: sap@langfordvets.co.uk
Copyright © 2022 Langford Vets, All rights reserved.


Langford charged around £80 for testing but I know other vets were quoting ridiculous amounts for this which is  going to put a lot of people off. Its not compulsory for rescues to test for this but the responsible ones are because the disease is not uncommon.


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## Andie02 (10 June 2022)

Mrs Jingle said:



			My farmer neighbour caught Brucellosis several years ago, he was very poorly and in hospital for a long time. He is generally Ok now, but still has relapses when he is totally bedridden for several days in great pain and very ill. Horrible disease.

Something that I have wondered about, and really don't want to side track from the point of this very important and informative thread, but what happens to the various pets that have come into both Ireland and the UK with their Ukrainian owners? Do they go into quarantine? Are they tested for various diseases etc.  Would be interested if anybody has an answer on that?
		
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You are not the only one wondering about that Mrs Jingle !  It is a concern.


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## skinnydipper (10 June 2022)

Puppies can be infected through vertical transmission.


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## Dobiegirl (10 June 2022)

Andie02 said:



			You are not the only one wondering about that Mrs Jingle !  It is a concern.
		
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Surely though he has caught it from the cattle which will be bovine brucellosis


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## Andie02 (10 June 2022)

Dobiegirl said:



			Surely though he has caught it from the cattle which will be bovine brucellosis
		
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I was referring to the 2nd part of Mrs Jingle's post regarding the pets coming in from Ukraine !


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## Dobiegirl (11 June 2022)

Andie02 said:



			I was referring to the 2nd part of Mrs Jingle's post regarding the pets coming in from Ukraine !
		
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My understanding is the Ukraine pets go into quarantine unless they have the paperwork to show they are vaxed etc which is highly unlikely because if you are fleeing for your life you dont pick up your dogs passport and vax card so they will be doing titre tests in quarantine etc. 

Due to the high number of dogs in quarantine because of the refugee situation and all the dogs being seized from rescues who are none compliant quarantine space is running out so that was one of the reasons given for the current ban on commercial travel.


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## Clodagh (11 June 2022)

skinnydipper said:



			Dobiegirl, I think your vet may be exceptional.

Could anyone else who has adopted from brucella canis endemic countries please confirm if their vet has contacted them to arrange testing.
		
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I know there are several people on here with foreign rescues, it’s a shame no one has answered. It would be interesting to find out if any vets actually are following protocol.


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## Redders (11 June 2022)

We haven’t gotten as far as making it a policy yet because we are incredibly busy, but what I personally do, and what my boss supports, is any rescue from endemic areas coming for a check I discuss the disease, and recommend testing. I say I refuse to perform risky procedures without a negative test. Trouble is, there is often a lot to discuss in these appointments and adding a disease like that to the list means these appointments run massively over time - when really, it is the responsibility of the rescue, and in fact the owner, to research these things before adopting a foreign rescue. In one of these appointments I had a new owner tell me it was my responsibility to pay for the test because I wanted them, not her. Er, no. 
also, we charge more than that for the bloods, we charge £20 ish for preparing the sample and taking the blood, but we don’t add anything on to lab fees - we charge what the lab charges us. Hardly extortionate, and really, people should research more before getting ANY pet, then they would be aware of not just Brucella, but even basic needs etc. Bane of my days is seeing suffering because of ignorance. 
I have also had people tell me it’s ‘part of my job’ to be exposed to bites, and zoonotic disease and a risk I should just accept because it’s not their fault Fluffy has a communicable disease


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## Dobiegirl (11 June 2022)

Redders said:



			We haven’t gotten as far as making it a policy yet because we are incredibly busy, but what I personally do, and what my boss supports, is any rescue from endemic areas coming for a check I discuss the disease, and recommend testing. I say I refuse to perform risky procedures without a negative test. Trouble is, there is often a lot to discuss in these appointments and adding a disease like that to the list means these appointments run massively over time - when really, it is the responsibility of the rescue, and in fact the owner, to research these things before adopting a foreign rescue. In one of these appointments I had a new owner tell me it was my responsibility to pay for the test because I wanted them, not her. Er, no.
also, we charge more than that for the bloods, we charge £20 ish for preparing the sample and taking the blood, but we don’t add anything on to lab fees - we charge what the lab charges us. Hardly extortionate, and really, people should research more before getting ANY pet, then they would be aware of not just Brucella, but even basic needs etc. Bane of my days is seeing suffering because of ignorance.
I have also had people tell me it’s ‘part of my job’ to be exposed to bites, and zoonotic disease and a risk I should just accept because it’s not their fault Fluffy has a communicable disease
		
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If your practice is incredibly busy why not send out emails to clients like mine did, Im sure if you contacted Langford they would be happy for you to use their email. 

How much are you actually charging for the tests in total, like Langford you will have to charge for the bloods that are sent to the government lab but they will be charging the same to everyone.

You say its the responsibility of the rescue but there is the problem, a lot of the rescues are only interested in the money and have bent all the rules, their dogs are non compliant and wont all be vaxed in fact paperwork is falsified putting everyone including vets in danger. The government are fully aware of the problem but it is something they have yet to get a grip of.


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## Redders (11 June 2022)

Because I am not at work today, I don’t know exactly how much we charge, but it won’t be extortionate, and my point is even if it is more, it’s not necessarily extortionate - it’s against industry law for vets to discuss what they charge with each other because it can be seen as price fixing, but the reality is, if a vet wants to charge £300 for the test, for whatever reason, they are allowed to and if an owner isn’t happy they are free to move to a practice who charges prices they consider fair, they don’t have to stay with that vet. 
even sending emails out takes a lot of time - we don’t automatically have a button to find every foreign rescue owner. Then it would generate the work of not only doing the tests - which is fine and great and what we want to do - but also the replies and angry phone calls of owners not being happy about it, us being money grabbing, give me more information before I proceed, does insurance cover it, is it free, I don’t want to put my dog down if he has it why should I etc etc etc, I want to speak to the vet directly because I might get them to change the rules etc. It also means we have to spend time writing a policy to back up the email, which involves research and careful wording.
This issue has landed on the doorstep of vets because of irresponsible rescues and irresponsible adopters - if people did their research they would go with a rescue who does test, or demand a negative result prior to adoption. It’s the same with other exotic diseases - it costs a lot of money to treat some of them, and owners aren’t prepared for that and then the vet becomes the bad guy for charging money to use their hard learned skills to diagnose and treat the animal. 
People need to do their research BEFORE they buy/adopt. End of in my opinion. That applies to literally any animal, from anywhere. I am sick of hearing ‘oh I didn’t know that’ while an animal is suffering greatly in front of me. It is a privilege to own and care for an animal, not a right. It is the owners responsibility to know that individual animals needs and any risks they might pose. Not mine. And I’m not money grabbing for charging for my skills.


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## splashgirl45 (11 June 2022)

Agree, the owners need to do their homework before taking on a foreign dog.  Part of the trouble is these people have no idea about these diseases , all they see is an animal in need and the bent rescues are happy to take their money.. I think it would be a good idea for the government to put out a warning and make sure it is shown on tv like the aids info did.


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## skinnydipper (11 June 2022)

As all AAD forum members are responsible people with a conscience they will, on reading this thread, immediately contact their vet and arrange the necessary testing for their dog.  They will, after all, want to put their mind at rest that their own dog is not infected and as a dog lover they will not wish to risk infecting anyone else's dog.

The dog needs to be tested  following importation whether or not it was tested prior to being imported.


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## Dobiegirl (11 June 2022)

After receiving the initial email asking me to bring my dog in for testing I sent my vets a list of questions prior to my appointment, this is their reply.                                                                                                                       Thank you for your response and interest. We are currently working out an FAQ and will use some of the topics you raise as I suspect they will be on a lot of pet owner’s minds.
I have highlighted my responses to your questions and added 2 links at the bottom to the appropriate government statements.

1/ APHA are advising people to get their dogs blood tested before importing so does that mean if a negative test dogs will not require any further testing for this or will they require testing on a yearly basis. Also, APHA make it compulsory for all dogs coming in from abroad be tested at source before import.
A – Our current policy (which we have had agreed by the Health and Safety Executive (HSE)) is that any pet who has travelled outside the UK will need testing after returning to the UK before we can carry out treatment or diagnostics. This means that testing will have to occur again if your pet travels following any Brucella test. It can take up to 3 months for the patient to develop antibodies following infection so pre-import testing will not eliminate the need for testing in the UK. APHA can make recommendations to DEFRA but any change to the current import rules would require a change of law, which would have to be proposed and discussed in Parliament. We strongly recommend that pre-import testing is undertaken for a variety of diseases that are not currently endemic in the UK. The chances of a neutered pet dog travelling on holiday to a low-risk country being exposed to Brucella is thought to be low, however Vets and Veterinary Laboratory staff are at highest risk of exposure due to handling of potentially infectious body tissues/fluids.

2/ If Zara tests positive with no symptoms does this mean I will be advised to have her pts or will you no longer be prepared to treat her; she is spayed so obviously will not be bred from.
A – APHA will inform UK Health Security Agency (UKHSA) of any positive cases. UKHSA will investigate those individual cases and make recommendations according to risk. It is likely that euthanasia will be advised although as Canine Brucellosis is not currently a Notifiable condition there is not an associated compulsory destruction order.
The Small Animal Hospital has inadvertently treated patients that have subsequently been discovered to have Brucella. This has involved investigations by PHE and HSE and we have been required to implement this protocol to minimise the risk to our staff.

3/ Everything  I've read has mentioned the dog to human transmission, but I can find no evidence of any cases, if you do know this to be fact can you please forward me the link so I can check this out for myself.
A – Cases of human infection with Brucella Canis are rare but likely underreported as most testing in people is for other types of Brucella and can therefore miss cases of Brucella Canis. This is a disease of emerging importance and understanding.


4/ I've been speaking to other rescues asking them if they have had similar letters from their vets and they have all replied no this was the first time they knew of this now that I've mentioned it. I realise you have had a case so can see why you are being pro-active but would like to know if other vets will be doing the same and it will become compulsory within vet practices.
A – Langford Vets has been in close consultation with APHA, UKHSA and HSE following some cases treated at the hospital that unknowingly put our staff at risk. Following these consultations our policies were reviewed and agreed by HSE as appropriate to protect our staff from significant risk. Until practices have had a case and are involved with the government agencies, they will not be aware of the risks. Langford Vets has been in communication with other university hospitals, local practices etc and this is an emerging and evolving topic. We expect these types of policy to become more widespread as awareness increases. Most veterinary laboratories require a travel history and samples are handled only after either screening tests or using Category 3 laboratory conditions.
https://bvajournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/do/10.1002/vetr.00100013

Further information can be found at:
Risk review and statement on the risk Brucella canis presents to the UK human population (publishing.service.gov.uk)
Canine Brucellosis: Summary Information Sheet (defra.gov.uk)


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## Amymay (11 June 2022)

I can see a real problem with vets advising euthanasia- ie owners simply won’t get dogs tested in the UK.


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## Mrs. Jingle (11 June 2022)

Dobiegirl said:



			Surely though he has caught it from the cattle which will be bovine brucellosis
		
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Well yes obviously, I was merely referencing (as others have done)  animal to human brucellosis risk with other animals, as in farming and vets, not just canine risks .  Apologies if not relevant to this thread? 🤷‍♀️


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## Dobiegirl (11 June 2022)

Very true but if your dog needs an op then vets wont do it without a test so you could be risking your dogs life.

If my dog had tested positive I would not have had her pts, obviously she would have been restricted but as I live on a farm a lot of which the gp dont have access to the chances of her passing it on to another dog is slim. I would have had my other dogs tested and all their doggy friends which I would have paid for.  Vets Im sure would be wearing full PPE if examining her.


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## Mrs. Jingle (11 June 2022)

Redders said:



			I have also had people tell me it’s ‘part of my job’ to be exposed to bites, and zoonotic disease and a risk I should just accept because it’s not their fault Fluffy has a communicable disease
		
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I can see that would be a fairly regular thought process sadly. Look at how many numpty horse owners , who should know better, think it is the farrier's job to risk having his head caved in by their spoilt, obnoxious, untrained and unmannerly horse, same ignorance and disregard for others.


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## Clodagh (11 June 2022)

When I bought Bonnie over from Australia, when I moved back here, she did her 6 months quarantine. At that time heartworm was not a thing in the UK but it was common in Oz. I paid for her to be tested as soon as I got her out of quarantine as I would not want to be inadvertently introducing a disease to another country.


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## Pearlsasinger (11 June 2022)

Dobiegirl said:



			Very true but if your dog needs an op then vets wont do it without a test so you could be risking your dogs life.

If my dog had tested positive I would not have had her pts, obviously she would have been restricted but as I live on a farm a lot of which the gp dont have access to the chances of her passing it on to another dog is slim. I would have had my other dogs tested and all their doggy friends which I would have paid for.  Vets Im sure would be wearing full PPE if examining her.
		
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I am glad, on every level, that your dog did not test positive.

However, the problem with this thinking is that if your dog tested positive, testing your other dogs and their doggy friends wouldn't protect them from contracting bc at a later date, after interactions with your positive dog.


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## Dobiegirl (11 June 2022)

That is true but  dogs are being infected in the womb ie from the bitch  or sexual contact, my dog, indeed all my dogs and friends dogs are all neutered or spayed. Its certainly not so infectious as Covid for example and I did discuss with my vet what would be the implications if she tested positive, its certainly not compulsory to have your dog pts and tbh I saw it as a management issue for me which would be perfectly achievable given where i live and my lifestyle. I also discussed in depth with my friends and family and they agreed they wouldnt have theirs pts either but would manage their dogs accordingly.


Pearlsasinger said:



			I am glad, on every level, that your dog did not test positive.

However, the problem with this thinking is that if your dog tested positive, testing your other dogs and their doggy friends wouldn't protect them from contracting bc at a later date, after interactions with your positive dog.
		
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## Pearlsasinger (11 June 2022)

Dobiegirl said:



			That is true but  dogs are being infected in the womb ie from the bitch  or sexual contact, my dog, indeed all my dogs and friends dogs are all neutered or spayed. Its certainly not so infectious as Covid for example and I did discuss with my vet what would be the implications if she tested positive, its certainly not compulsory to have your dog pts and tbh I saw it as a management issue for me which would be perfectly achievable given where i live and my lifestyle. I also discussed in depth with my friends and family and they agreed they wouldnt have theirs pts either but would manage their dogs accordingly.
		
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My understanding is that it not only passed through sexual contact but through contact with bodily fluids, after all the vet/lab assistants who are at risk won't be having sexual contact with the positive dogs.  So I would expect that, even if unlikely, bc could be passed on from one dog to another that it lives with, through saliva/blood.


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## skinnydipper (11 June 2022)

"How is canine brucellosis spread?

*Large numbers of B. canis bacteria are shed in the genital secretions (semen or vaginal discharges) of an infected dog.* *Smaller amounts of bacteria may also be shed in the dog's urine or saliva. *After a female dog aborts a pregnancy because of brucellosis, she will continue to discharge fluids infected with the bacteria for 4-6 weeks after the abortion.

*Dogs are exposed to the disease via contact with infected bodily fluids. Although the most common route of infection is oral (i.e., from licking contaminated urine or discharges from the reproductive tract *or licking or chewing placental material or aborted fetuses), *dogs can also pick up an infection through sexual transmission, inhalation (sniffing contaminated urine or other discharges), or through other mucous membranes such as the eyes."*

Given dogs' propensity for sticking their snouts up another dog's nether regions or playing bitey face, I can see how a dog might become infected other than through copulation or vertical transmission.


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## Pearlsasinger (11 June 2022)

skinnydipper said:



			"How is canine brucellosis spread?

*Large numbers of B. canis bacteria are shed in the genital secretions (semen or vaginal discharges) of an infected dog.* *Smaller amounts of bacteria may also be shed in the dog's urine or saliva. *After a female dog aborts a pregnancy because of brucellosis, she will continue to discharge fluids infected with the bacteria for 4-6 weeks after the abortion.

*Dogs are exposed to the disease via contact with infected bodily fluids. Although the most common route of infection is oral (i.e., from licking contaminated urine or discharges from the reproductive tract *or licking or chewing placental material or aborted fetuses), *dogs can also pick up an infection through sexual transmission, inhalation (sniffing contaminated urine or other discharges), or through other mucous membranes such as the eyes."*

Given dogs' propensity for sticking their snouts up another dog's nether regions or playing bitey face, I can see how a dog might become infected other than through copulation or vertical transmission.
		
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Exactly.  IMHO any dog which does test positive should be humanely pts asap.  We absolutely do not want bc within these shores.


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## Clodagh (11 June 2022)

The importation ban, is it actually really happening? So the mass van loads of ‘rescued’ dogs, are they really being turned back?


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## Redders (11 June 2022)

The ban is for commercial imports, so the reason behind the import is what is banned. Rescues would be classed as commercial, and would be aware of the ban so either won’t load up to travel, or will attempt to find ways of saying it’s not a commercial import and is private - so make out it’s a private individual importing their privately owned dog. Bet yes, if a commercial export ban turned up, they would be turned away


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## Redders (11 June 2022)

Or rather ‘should’ be turned away. What actually happens in practice? I hope they are turned away


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## skinnydipper (12 June 2022)

Ian Wright, who heads up the European Scientific Counsel for Companion Animal Parasites UK and Ireland, said: “Illegal imports under the shadow of commercial imports have been a concern for some time.

“Eastern Europe is endemic for a number of parasites exotic to the UK that infect dogs. Of greatest concern alongside rabies are _Brucella canis_ and _Echinococcus multilocularis_, because of zoonotic risk and their potential to establish in the UK.
“Other parasites of concern include _Ehrlichia canis_, heartworm, _Babesia canis_ and _Leishmania_. Testing imported dogs, and ensuring adequate vaccinations and tapeworm treatments are carried out, are key to minimising the risk these parasites represent.”
He added: “Illegal imports greatly increase the risk of these crucial steps being missed, as well as compromising welfare, and Defra has to consider this when legislating for cat and dog importation.”

Read more here:

https://www.vettimes.co.uk/news/vets-welcome-temporary-suspension-of-commercial-pet-imports/


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## skinnydipper (12 June 2022)

*"Commercial import of dogs, cats and ferrets to Great Britain (England, Scotland and Wales) from Belarus, Poland, Romania or Ukraine*

Great Britain has temporarily suspended the commercial import of dogs, cats and ferrets if they originate from or have been dispatched from Belarus, Poland, Romania or Ukraine, until 9 July 2022.

Commercial imports are the sale of or the transfer of ownership of a pet animal. This includes rescue animals and if you are travelling with more than 5 dogs, cats or ferrets if these animals are not attending training for a competition, show or sporting event.  This suspension does not apply to non-commercial pet animals from these countries.

This decision has been taken because of the serious health risk to humans and animals in Great Britain from commercial cats, dogs and ferrets from Belarus, Poland, Romania or Ukraine that do not comply with UK health and documentation requirements. These countries are at high-risk of rabies.

The risk has been exacerbated by serious cases of non-compliance from countries neighbouring Ukraine which are experiencing high volumes of animal movements at present."

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/imports-and-exports-of-animals-and-animal-products-topical-issues#:~:text=Great Britain has temporarily suspended,ownership of a pet animal.


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## Dobiegirl (12 June 2022)

In terms of positive cases, the options put forward by the CVO are euthanasia or to at least neuter with pre- and post-operative antibiotics. The rationale for the latter is protection of the staff involved in the neutering procedure – appropriate PPE is still necessary – and to suppress potential recrudescence of infection.
Apart from the immediate zoonotic aspect, what of the impact of _Brucella canis_ positive dogs in our canine population? Consideration must be given to who they live with (immunocompromised individuals are thought to be at greater risk) and to dogs they interact with; the recommendation is not to take infected dogs to areas that other dogs frequent, which does severely limit where they can go.
As I said earlier if my dog had tested positive I wouldnt have had her pts because of how I could manage her on our own farm which is private so she wouldnt  come into contact with other dogs.
Its still not compulsory to test dogs for this prior to importation which to me is a ridiculous situation, DEFRA & APHA really need to get a grip on this and they have known about this for at least a year.


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## Clodagh (12 June 2022)

skinnydipper said:



*"Commercial import of dogs, cats and ferrets to Great Britain (England, Scotland and Wales) from Belarus, Poland, Romania or Ukraine*

Great Britain has temporarily suspended the commercial import of dogs, cats and ferrets if they originate from or have been dispatched from Belarus, Poland, Romania or Ukraine, until 9 July 2022.

Commercial imports are the sale of or the transfer of ownership of a pet animal. This includes rescue animals and if you are travelling with more than 5 dogs, cats or ferrets if these animals are not attending training for a competition, show or sporting event.  This suspension does not apply to non-commercial pet animals from these countries.

This decision has been taken because of the serious health risk to humans and animals in Great Britain from commercial cats, dogs and ferrets from Belarus, Poland, Romania or Ukraine that do not comply with UK health and documentation requirements. These countries are at high-risk of rabies.

The risk has been exacerbated by serious cases of non-compliance from countries neighbouring Ukraine which are experiencing high volumes of animal movements at present."

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/imports-and-exports-of-animals-and-animal-products-topical-issues#:~:text=Great Britain has temporarily suspended,ownership of a pet animal.
		
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so the ‘rescues’ can just forge paperwork to show they are from somewhere else? I wonder if the big import peopke like Many Tears will have less dogs available?


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## skinnydipper (13 June 2022)

Thank you Dg, for posting the link to this. 

I note that DEFRA estimates 30,000 dogs were imported from Romania in 2020.

and that the recommended approach for confirmed infected animals is euthanasia.


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## stangs (13 June 2022)

Somehow I think that the type of people that fall for the "look how scared he is" rescue dog ads aren't the types who'll agree to euthanise.


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## CorvusCorax (13 June 2022)

30k!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's industrial. IMO. How is that different to puppy farming?


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## Clodagh (13 June 2022)

CorvusCorax said:



			30k!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's industrial. IMO. How is that different to puppy farming?
		
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Well trapping a feral is probably cheaper than raising a litter of pups even in slum like conditions, so I imagine it’s even more profitable.


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## splashgirl45 (13 June 2022)

exactly and who cares if the poor things are petrified, lets shove them in a van with a load of others and charge the numptys in GB a huge fee and then the new owners  spend months agonising about how to make the dogs life happy....i had a friend who took on a rumanian rescue,  she didnt meet it first just fell for a photo,  an awful experience for both my friend and the dog.  it was only 5 months old and was petrified of everything and it took my friend ages to get the dog to stay indoors.  the dog didnt improve no matter what my friend did and she eventually found a behaviourist who was prepared to take the dog on and try to improve her life..  i havent heard how she got on,  it has traumatised my friend and put her off of ever trying to rehome again which is a shame as she has had dogs for many years and never had a problem and would be a good home


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## Orangehorse (13 June 2022)

There was a fad a few  years ago for importing horses from Russia.  The trouble is that when they were made fit to go and compete they would drop dead from worm damage, to the extent that insurance companies would refuse to insure any horse bred in Russia.


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## skinnydipper (21 June 2022)

Posted on Facebook by Barnaby and Bluebell on 20 June 2022.

"The following is posted with permission from those involved.

A woman was hospitalised and confirmed positive for Brucella Canis as was the foster dog from whom she contracted the disease.
She was seriously ill and the prognosis is currently unclear. There are further issues complicating what is already a horrific situation but these will not be discussed here.

Since she was hospitalised, I have seen numerous posts from the rescue and others trying to justify the events that have led to this yet very few posts or comments asking after the woman who’s life is now in turmoil.

So let’s be clear on a few facts!

The rescue involved has had dogs seized for having fake titre tests.
They have, on more than one occasion, brought dogs in by car on the Pet Passport Scheme.

They have brought in breed pups as rescues from a breeder they ‘partner’ with in Belarus. They brought in three pregnant bitches, who became pregnant whilst under rescue care after becoming impregnated at their fosters home in Belarus.
No registered shelter details have been provided, as required by Balai, in Belarus only foster details.

As is usual in these cases, everything is brushed off as a ‘mistake’!
Well the number of ‘mistakes’ being made by certain ‘rescues’ resulting in risk to animals and people in the UK as well as negatively impacting on the welfare of the animals involved is unacceptable and needs addressing.

Four years ago concerns of Brucella in imported dogs were brought to the attention of APHA. A year ago a risk study was undertaken. Now we have the first UK case of Brucella transmitted from canine to human in the UK. Is this to be the same for Echinococcus and rabies?

When rescues already fail to comply with the current mandatory preparations, making Brucella screening mandatory is simply not enough. There needs to be greater control over who can import dogs and the transports, foreign vets and units involved in the rescue chain."


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## skinnydipper (28 July 2022)

Foster carer's own dogs euthanised after they tested positive.

Article in Vet Record July 2022

https://bvajournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1002/vetr.2060


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## Quigleyandme (28 July 2022)

maisie06 said:



			Because UK rescue centres make it damn nigh impossible to rescue a dog unless you are very active, retired, don't dare work, have £££££'s in the bank and leave them your house in your will.
		
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Don’t forget the fully enclosed perimeter. I could offer a rescue a brilliant home and life but I live on a farm so I’m unsuitable. If I lived in a terrace house with a tiny but enclosed courtyard I’d be considered ideal.


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## Gloi (28 July 2022)

There seems to be a constant stream of loose or lost dogs on my local Facebook group where they have got away from walkers or owners. Nearly every time it says they are a nervous recent rescue. One was running around the estate for a few days before it was finally caught and returned to owner. It was in my garden one morning when I was going out but shot off when it saw me.


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## Goldenstar (28 July 2022)

Poor doggies damaged by life the trip to a new life must be so scary .


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## PapaverFollis (28 July 2022)

Frankly we shouldn't be importing these dogs.

There's one up here on the loose at the moment because it freaked out and bolted...


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## rabatsa (29 July 2022)

A new, 18 month old, cane corso, very recently delivered to the next village, was on the loose for 4 days earlier this week.

Even worse the dog was not reported on the local facebook pages by the person looking after it, but by someone who saw the advert on a dog lost page.

Those of us with sheep were getting a wee bit concerned about it.


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## SilverLinings (29 July 2022)

I have a colleague who I was aware fosters dogs from Eastern Europe, so I asked her about Brucella Canis and whether they were vaccinated and/or tested. She said she'd never heard of the disease, and when the dogs are handed over to her she is given no information about what vaccinations or health checks they've had; apparently the 'charity' keeps the paperwork and only hands it over when the dog goes to their permanent home. I explained that her own dogs could catch it, and fortunately she is sensible and said she will read up on it and ask the charity to provide proof of any vaccinations the dogs have had. 

It is appalling that the 'charity' don't inform the foster carers, and if they aren't vaccinating/testing then they are ethically negligent for allowing the dogs to go to homes with other dogs (and to be taken out in public).

My colleague is quite a sensible and well-educated person (she is a medical professional), but it shows how trusting people are, and how easy it is for these 'charities' to import diseases with their dogs. It's a shame there aren't better controls over who can import dogs under the claim of 'rescuing' them as there seems to be quite a few risks with these set ups.


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## skinnydipper (5 August 2022)

Quigleyandme said:



			Don’t forget the fully enclosed perimeter. I could offer a rescue a brilliant home and life but I live on a farm so I’m unsuitable. If I lived in a terrace house with a tiny but enclosed courtyard I’d be considered ideal.
		
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If you have been turned down by a UK rescue due to inadequate or non existent fencing, I don't think adopting from abroad is the answer.

Some adopters of foreign rescues appear to have difficulties keeping their new friend on their property even with the aid of a 6ft fence.


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## OldNag (5 August 2022)

Gloi said:



			There seems to be a constant stream of loose or lost dogs on my local Facebook group where they have got away from walkers or owners. Nearly every time it says they are a nervous recent rescue. One was running around the estate for a few days before it was finally caught and returned to owner. It was in my garden one morning when I was going out but shot off when it saw me.
		
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Ditto, I helped with a local one that had escaped through an open window and been on the run for days. I spotted it in our local churchyard. 

It certainly isn't the first foreign rescue escapee I have heard of locally.


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## skinnydipper (15 August 2022)

https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/heartbreak-woman-forced-put-down-24762841


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## Petalpoos (15 August 2022)

That’s horrific.


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## OldNag (15 August 2022)

That is utterly awful, that poor woman, and poor dogs. 

When will people wake up about this?


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## ester (15 August 2022)

I'm a bit unclear what she wants the government to do, why did trading standards send her the 21 day notice?


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## rabatsa (16 August 2022)

ester said:



			I'm a bit unclear what she wants the government to do, why did trading standards send her the 21 day notice?
		
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From reading between the lines the imported dogs did not have the correct rabies paperwork, only picked up after arrival.  The dog the lady had was traced from the rescue place.  The 21 day notice was due to the incorrect paperwork being looked into.

I suspect the lady wants the government to implement disease controls before import.


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## ester (16 August 2022)

That seemed to only apply to the Ukrainian van not the Belarusian one?


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## druid (16 August 2022)

ester said:



			I'm a bit unclear what she wants the government to do, why did trading standards send her the 21 day notice?
		
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Sort out the stream of undocumented or fraudulently documented dogs coming into the UK under a thin guise of  rescue for cash?


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## CorvusCorax (16 August 2022)

Can someone in authority just come out and say that at source, some, if not a lot of these dogs are coming from puppy farms/are trapped ferals, is this 'rescue' or is it just selling unfortunate, sick animals to people who:
a) genuinely have no idea/think they are doing a nice thing
b) want a foreign rescue for clout
c) cannot pass or do not want to go through the more rigorous requirements of a lot of genuine rescue/rehoming operations?

Do people know exactly what they are funding?


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## PapaverFollis (16 August 2022)

What are the risks to the general dog population?  How close contact do they have to be? It'd be awful if this, or anything else, started spreading here because of a dog being brought in.  Honestly there should be a total ban on "rescue" imports and very strict controls on and testing of pet and breeding dog imports!

Most of these foreign rescue places seem to be import businesses to me anyway. Rounding up strays for free and selling them essentially.  "Rescue fees"... whatever.  There's probably breeding operations going on to create these dogs now because people suck.


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## Clodagh (16 August 2022)

I’ve said before I really though Brexit would stop this stream of ‘rescues’. It can’t even manage that!


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## ester (16 August 2022)

druid said:



			Sort out the stream of undocumented or fraudulently documented dogs coming into the UK under a thin guise of  rescue for cash?
		
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I guess I’ve more blamed the rescues given that they seem to regularly flaunt the rules that are there anyway


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## SilverLinings (16 August 2022)

PapaverFollis said:



			Most of these foreign rescue places seem to be import businesses to me anyway. Rounding up strays for free and selling them essentially.  "Rescue fees"... whatever.  There's probably breeding operations going on to create these dogs now because people suck.
		
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I read an article in a newspaper about 18 months ago (would have been in The Times or The Observer) saying exactly that- people in Eastern European countries are breeding dogs and in some cases openly selling them to British 'rescues' and in other cases duping said 'rescues' into thinking they are strays (and posing as rescue centres themselves, asking for a 'donation' from the British 'rescue' in return for the dog).


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## skinnydipper (20 October 2022)

"I’ve been informed of three litters of pups positive for Brucella Canis in the past two weeks, imported from different countries and all resident in the UK for a minimum of five months.
The litters include several intact females who have had seasons and been walked whilst menstruating, obviously the owners were oblivious to the fact that their dogs could be shedding B.Canis.
DEFRA need to stop trying to sweep this under the rug and as dogs have tested negative then positive on entry, questions need to be asked regarding the tests being used, the isolation procedure and the age of pups when tested to ensure an accurate result."

Barnaby and Bluebell on Facebook.  https://www.facebook.com/barnabyslaw/


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## SilverLinings (21 October 2022)

After this thread started I spoke to two work colleagues, one has adopted a dog from eastern Europe and the other fosters them whilst a UK home is found. Neither had heard of BC, the fosterer said she had just been told by the 'charity' that the dogs were 'fully vaccinated' but no details as to for what. She has since asked them specifically about BC and has still had no answer. Neither of these people seem to realise how serious the risk is, and own other dogs and walk them (and the rescues) in public areas daily. 

There seems to be a widespread belief by the public that if a dog comes from a rescue then all sensible checks/vaccinations/examinations must have been done, which combined with limited awareness of BC sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.

Does anyone know whether vets routinely raise the issue of BC (and testing) with clients who disclose that their new dog is a foreign rescue?


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## druid (21 October 2022)

SilverLinings said:



			Does anyone know whether vets routinely raise the issue of BC (and testing) with clients who disclose that their new dog is a foreign rescue?
		
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I do but I do a lot of repro work so am probably more conscious of it than some


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## SilverLinings (21 October 2022)

druid said:



			I do but I do a lot of repro work so am probably more conscious of it than some
		
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It's a great way to raise awareness but I realise vets already have a 101 things to think about when assessing a dog, plus not all owners would mention where the dog has come from.

I suppose the risk is that some owners won't take their dog to a vet for a year after acquiring it when they realise annual jabs are due, by which time they have been mixing in the community.


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## CorvusCorax (21 October 2022)

Just for people who are coming to this thread late, I want to reiterate/raise the hair on this again: if you are taking a small number of pet/sport dogs to and from the continent for leisure/competition, especially at the tunnel, the checks can be really OTT. To the extent that a lot of people I know won't use the tunnel.
On most ferries you have to bring the dogs individually out to have them scanned/passports checked at kiosks, on one route on the return leg you have to take the dog into the terminal/desk. These are well rounded dogs, who know me, used to travelling long distances in the car, sailing etc.

I do not know how people are managing to bring entire vanloads of feral, terrified animals, being transported by relative strangers, without any sort of issue, unless those who are doing the checks just can't be arsed with larger volumes of animals. I also doubt that, if they are travelling by ferry, they are being let out to clean themselves on very long journeys.


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## splashgirl45 (21 October 2022)

I can’t understand how so many are getting through.  I worry that my dogs might get infected if any foreign rescues are around.  Luckily I know most of the dogs on my daily walks and tend to put mine on lead if I see a dog I don’t know just in case


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## Gloi (2 November 2022)

Has anyone had experience with Noah s ark Romanian rescue. A woman I know got a terrified little dog from them which was meant to be spayed but wasn't and is now thinking of getting another dog from them.


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## Amymay (2 November 2022)

Gloi said:



			Has anyone had experience with Noah s ark Romanian rescue. A woman I know got a terrified little dog from them which was meant to be spayed but wasn't and is now thinking of getting another dog from them.
		
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There seem to be a lot of dogs brought over _for_ adoption rather than having _been_ adopted.

How does that work?


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## splashgirl45 (2 November 2022)

I think people see a photo of the dog and agree to have it then they pay the transport fee so it seems that the rescue doesn’t have to pay up front and when the dogs arrive they are quite often not what has been advertised  regarding medical and temperament.  The ones I have known about have been petrified of men and not much better with women and they will often escape and live wild, this has happened at least 4 times in my area that I know of.  It’s a disgrace, those dogs would have been better PTS in their home country rather than undergoing a long journey to a lifestyle that they hate.


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## skinnydipper (2 November 2022)

Gloi said:



			Has anyone had experience with Noah s ark Romanian rescue. A woman I know got a terrified little dog from them which was meant to be spayed but wasn't and is now thinking of getting another dog from them.
		
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Could you advise this person to ensure that the dog has had a blood test (serology) to test for Brucella Canis before importation and ask for a copy of the lab report and to arrange for the dog to be retested 3 months after importation.


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## Gloi (2 November 2022)

skinnydipper said:



			Could you advise this person to ensure that the dog has had a blood test (serology) to test for Brucella canis before importation and ask for a copy of the lab report and to arrange for the dog to be retested 3 months after importation.
		
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Still trying to persuade her not to get it


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## skinnydipper (3 November 2022)

https://www.ed.ac.uk/vet/services/s...ies) are the,good enough to exclude infection.


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