# Why?? Tack security



## Mynstrel (26 August 2010)

Before I write this, it's not meant as advertising, just a question I'd like an answer to & if it's not allowed then please tell me & I'll remove the post ASAP.

Earlier this year we stumbled across saddle microchipping using a system that put the saddle on a free property register that the police use & also supplied security tags that you could use for anything else you want to register & thought what a dam good idea, this wasn't one of the big firms but an independent who organises the security kits & fits them & was willing to sell kits to us to do the same. 

We did a bit of research & people we spoke to seemed really interested so my partner added to his equestrian business a service offering saddle microchipping, security tagging & etching or stamping other tack, all with registration on this database included & we thought that as hardly anybody in the northwest does it & tack thefts are getting more common it'd be something that'd take off.  We did our research & had comparable prices to other firms doing the same job & were even offering a more comprehensive service than some of them.  

So why now is nobody interested?  We've done some leaflet drops at shows & seem to be looked at as though we have 3 heads or been downright rude to & I just don't get it when there was a lot of interest at the offset.

Any suggestions please?


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## the watcher (26 August 2010)

As a Horsewatch co-ordinator I still have stock of about 40 datachips I bought to offer this to horse owners at cost (ie no charge for my time) and still couldn't shift them. Equally I have offered free tack embossing with postcode for years and people still can't be very bothered to take it up.

I certainly wouldn't bother if you are hoping to make some kind of business of it


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## Shay (26 August 2010)

You don't - quite rightly - say how much this costs.  But why would anyone pay for a service they can probably do themselves for free?

Both the Police and Horsewatch will attend a yard and mark tack for free or for a small donation if there are enough people.  You'll also often find them at equestrian car boot sales and things like that.

If you can't get to a free tack marking service your saddler will stencil a post code or other identifiying mark for you when re-flocking etc.  Or you can buy a security pen, metal die stamp or any number of other secure marking methods fairly cheaply and mark as much as you want with them.  

The one thing you can't do it tag tack - or indeed much else - because the theives will simply cut the tags off.  They're fine for camp etc so your stuff doesn't get muddled with someone elses - but usless as theft prevention.  

The police have web sites and databases of stolen equipment.  As in fact do insurers.  But there is no such thing  - that I am aware of  - as a dedicated database the police look on for stolen equipment.  If you report stolen tack you need to include any secure identification etc and that all goes on the police's own database.  There is no charge for this.

There could be any number of reasons why people don't seem interested in the service.  From what you've said here if it were me I would seriously question whether such a service is value for money.  Obviously I don't know the costs but I suspect you could get most of the same service for free elsewhere.  With the database I'm afraid to my cynical mind it screams scam.  I'm not for one moment saying it is - it is just the way my nasty mind works and certainly I probably wouldn't go much farther to find out more.

The other obvious reason is that times are tight and people might not be able to afford many extras. With the major horsewatch campaigns over tack marking in the last 4 or 5 years it might be that many people have thier tack marked anyway.

All that said - if you are in a remote area where the Police or horsewatch have a minimal presence; or if there is something really unique and valuable in the service, then you should be able to limp along at least, even now with money so tight.  But with basics like the price of hay set to sky rocket you are going to have tough competition I'm afraid.


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## horse4lee (26 August 2010)

Our yard had £30,000 worth of tack stolen and I have to say that the cost for microchipping and recording etc. it was a small price to pay. We found only a tiny handful of saddles that will be returned (eventually) but the recovery process would have been a lot simpler if they were chipped.


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## the watcher (26 August 2010)

The problem is, many people don't appear to understand the value of making their tack unique and identifiable until after it has gone.


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## ElvisandTilly (26 August 2010)

My saddle was identichipped and engraved by a scheme the local police were doing. It got stolen 5 years ago and never seen hide nor hair of it since despite all the security markings! 

It needs people who are receiving the goods to actually report they have the item too to make the schemes work. 

I loved that saddle and still wonder where it is!!


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## Mynstrel (26 August 2010)

Shay said:



			You don't - quite rightly - say how much this costs.  But why would anyone pay for a service they can probably do themselves for free?
		
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Tack marking with an etcher or stamp - yes it can be free if you're brave enough - but wouldnt even Horsewatch charge for chips?  




			Both the Police and Horsewatch will attend a yard and mark tack for free or for a small donation if there are enough people.  You'll also often find them at equestrian car boot sales and things like that.
		
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Possibly on the marking but for microchipping you have to pay for the chip, the marking we decided to offer when people we quizzed about it said yes I like the sound of that, but what about an external mark so people can see it's chipped?




			The one thing you can't do it tag tack - or indeed much else - because the thieves will simply cut the tags off.  They're fine for camp etc so your stuff doesn't get muddled with someone elses - but usless as theft prevention.
		
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Not useless, it's called a visual deterrent.  What's the point in having a security device if people aren't aware it's there?  That's why car alarms have flashing read LEDs & people have huge yellow steering locks on lorries - no it won't stop the really determined thief but it will put some of them off & most thieves are opportunists.




			The police have web sites and databases of stolen equipment.  As in fact do insurers.  But there is no such thing  - that I am aware of  - as a dedicated database the police look on for stolen equipment.  If you report stolen tack you need to include any secure identification etc and that all goes on the police's own database.  There is no charge for this.
		
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www.immobilise.com.  All we're doing is offering to add a unique identifying marker to make the item easier to prove as your property when you register it on that database.  If it's stolen you log it as such & if it's gone & you're not aware of it they can still search the database for your unique identifiers.  It's not just that they're aren't interested in the service that confuses me - people don't seem interested in tack security even doing it for themselves.





			There could be any number of reasons why people don't seem interested in the service.  From what you've said here if it were me I would seriously question whether such a service is value for money.  Obviously I don't know the costs but I suspect you could get most of the same service for free elsewhere.  With the database I'm afraid to my cynical mind it screams scam.  I'm not for one moment saying it is - it is just the way my nasty mind works and certainly I probably wouldn't go much farther to find out more.
		
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Google saddle chipping & see (Farmkey, chips4tack, there's a few of them out there); it's not a free service, if it was we wouldn't have been daft enough to try & get involved.  And I'm actually quite offended by the suggestion that it's a scam.




			The other obvious reason is that times are tight and people might not be able to afford many extras. With the major horsewatch campaigns over tack marking in the last 4 or 5 years it might be that many people have thier tack marked anyway.
		
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Possibly, but that's why I'm confused about the interest at first, we asked a lot of people who liked the sound of it & seemed to think prices etc were ok, we've not just started doing this without research, I don't know many people who have their tack marked either so it's not common in our area.




			All that said - if you are in a remote area where the Police or horsewatch have a minimal presence; or if there is something really unique and valuable in the service, then you should be able to limp along at least, even now with money so tight.  But with basics like the price of hay set to 
sky rocket you are going to have tough competition I'm afraid.
		
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We can't find anybody else in our area doing it which is why we decided to give it a go.  We have no visibility of a local Horsewatch & the police aren't exactly interested in equestrian crime round here either.  Price of hay etc can't be used as an excuse because the problem was there before the wet summer, but the money thing is a good point now.


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## Mynstrel (26 August 2010)

thewatcher - thankfully we only added the chipping on along with everything else he does & haven't based a business on it.  It's comforting to know you've had the same problems as us though, I'm happier now that it appears to be the mindset in a lot of people rather than us getting it wrong!


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## fatpiggy (26 August 2010)

Well, I obvously don't know what you charge for this, or what precise benefits there are, but from my experience, people would rather spend £150 on the latest fancy gadget/rug/riding clothes (delete as appropriate) than on something which is of less obvious benefit. Yes, we all hope it won't happen to us and safe return isn't guaranteed if it does, but everything helps.  I speak from experience as I had my beautiful saddle stolen just 6 weeks after I bought it and never saw hide nor hair of it again. The police aren't the slightest bit coordinated, especially the urban/suburban forces and just treat it as an insurance claim so no real harm done.  You only have to see how many unmarked horses there are to understand why you were overcome with disinterest unfortunately.


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## Mynstrel (26 August 2010)

I can see what you're saying but when we were researching the average price came to a fee of around £20-£25 per saddle, so although it's not peanuts it's not megabucks either, certainly not the £150 that you appear to be thinking.

Perhaps I look at it differently as I've spent more time in the dog world than the horse one & there seems to be more faith in microchips there, but I'm beginning to see why it hasn't taken off from your replies - particularly the comment about the number of unmarked horses, I suppose if they won't do the horse they definitely won't do the equipment belonging to it.


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## fatpiggy (26 August 2010)

Oops, I didn't mean that it would cost £150 to chip a saddle !!  No, what I meant was that people quite happily spend megabucks on "looks" rather than spend any sort of sum on practical stuff. Eg. I know plenty of people who do not have any sort of a horsey first-aid kit. Not so much as a vetwrap bandage but happily show off this season's latest fad item. I can't believe that people pay out of £600 for a pair of long leather riding boots. I paid £125 for mine and they have been excellent (and I thought that was alot of money!) £25 is excellent value and less than a night out for many people. I know someone who paid that last year for their horse to be clipped - but it wasn't actually being ridden. Why???


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## ISHmad (26 August 2010)

I think people are complacent until they have tack stolen personally. We had our saddles postcoded by the police and they are tagged by I *think" a company called Datatag.  Name momentarily escapes me but one of our saddles in particular is irreplacable pretty much and I wanted to maximise the chances of me getting it back should it be stolen.

Sometime ago I remember reading about a substantial amount of tack having been recovered from thieves - and unbelievably a lot of it was not reunited with the rightful owners because of their failure to have marked the tack in any way.  Madness.  I think insurance companies will eventually insist on some kind of marking, they must be shelling out a small fortune all the time for stolen saddles.


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## the watcher (26 August 2010)

Mynstrel, perhaps the way forward is to link up with a local saddler and offer the tack marking at either point of sale or by appointment a week or so later (to be sure the tack fits the horse)

This kind of responsible merchandising could be good for both businesses


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## the watcher (26 August 2010)

Mynstrel, perhaps the way forward is to link up with a local saddler and offer the tack marking at either point of sale or by appointment a week or so later (to be sure the tack fits the horse)

This kind of responsible merchandising could be good for both businesses


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## SpruceRI (26 August 2010)

I think the main reason I'd have for not having a chip, is the lack of scanners.  For instance, I've had my saddles security marked (stamped) by the police.  

If my saddle then got stolen and turned up at a local auction I'd hope that some people in the audience would question where the paperwork was that went with that security mark, whereas I'm pretty darn sure the auction doesn't scan all the saddles first to look for a chip.

Do the Police, if the saddle is recovered?


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## Weezy (26 August 2010)

I now know the reason to mark tack - all of my tack was stolen last year, over £3k worth and I will never see it again.  My Butet was marked, have come to terms with the fact I won't see it again.  My Sabre was not.  I am 99.9% sure I found it on eBay, being sold.  The woman selling it had bought it off eBay but it didn't fit her horse.  Sadly I hadn't ever taken note of the serial number on it nor had I had it Post Coded or marked, so I could go no further.  

Saying that, some of the saddles stolen from others at the same theft were Post Coded and we haven't had any joy in finding them 

The only thing I would love to see would be a tracking device, but it just isn't viable.


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## Mynstrel (27 August 2010)

Thewatcher - thanks for the suggestion of working with a saddler, he does work through a tack shop, but perhaps the specialist whos selling the more expensive saddles is the better way to go.

Madhossy  I can see what youre saying, other people have said this which Im guessing is why most chips are coupled with a mark of some kind as well to say that it is chipped.  My OHs saddle was our test model & that has a chip, special security stickers that wont come off in one piece, stirrup bars etched, flaps stamped & a bright red dog tag all saying microchipped or chipped, please scan to try & show the widest range of deterrents possible.  I suppose at the moment its a risk people who chip are taking that the extra markers will be a good enough deterrent to put people off (with the chip giving the details to get it home again if it is stolen & found) while the idea catches on enough for police/2nd hand tack dealers to start using scanners.  

The annoying thing is the scanners are the same ones they probably (hopefully?) use at auctions to check horse chips against their passports so the system is partially in place if only theyd start to use it.


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