# Free Range eggs



## Cecile (28 February 2017)

Not that this matters one jot in the whole scheme of things but free range is temporarily not free range

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39110992


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## hopscotch bandit (28 February 2017)

Was surprised to hear on the radio that the cut off from classed as free range eggs when the hens are then kept indoors is three months. I would have thought that is a huge length of time myself.When I lived in Surrey we had hens and they had been rescued them from battery cages.We didn't eat the eggs for a coupleof days  because we didn't want to eat eggs that had been 'made' in a battery cage.


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## MotherOfChickens (28 February 2017)

hopscotch bandit said:



			We didn't eat the eggs for a coupleof days  because we didn't want to eat eggs that had been 'made' in a battery cage.
		
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good grief.


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## popsdosh (28 February 2017)

hopscotch bandit said:



			Was surprised to hear on the radio that the cut off from classed as free range eggs when the hens are then kept indoors is three months. I would have thought that is a huge length of time myself.When I lived in Surrey we had hens and they had been rescued them from battery cages.We didn't eat the eggs for a coupleof days  because we didn't want to eat eggs that had been 'made' in a battery cage.
		
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Shows how much you know about chicken!!


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## hopscotch bandit (1 March 2017)

popsdosh said:



			Shows how much you know about chicken!!
		
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Good I am so pleased to hear your opinion popsdosh. I have absorbed it and it is of great interest to me.So glad you have corrected me.Thank you for sharing your wisdom in such a positive way.I am so so grateful to you the font of all knowledge.Thank you for correcting me and letting me know that I am wrong.   

P.S If we didn't want to eat from hens that had been in a battery cage that was our choice who areyou to say it is wrong.


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## hopscotch bandit (1 March 2017)

MotherOfChickens said:



			good grief.
		
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Sorry don't quite understand that remark.Eggs take 24 or 25 hours to form in a hen and up to an hour to lay.We had the hens the day they were pulled from the battery cage.Why would we want to eat eggs that were laid within that 24 hour period if we are against battery cageegg production?  Please do share.


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## popsdosh (1 March 2017)

hopscotch bandit said:



			Sorry don't quite understand that remark.Eggs take 24 or 25 hours to form in a hen and up to an hour to lay.We had the hens the day they were pulled from the battery cage.Why would we want to eat eggs that were laid within that 24 hour period if we are against battery cageegg production?  Please do share.
		
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Think you need a new book maybe.


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## hopscotch bandit (1 March 2017)

popsdosh said:



			Think you need a new book maybe.
		
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As you are so keen on insisting I am wrong a quick search has found me an abstract from The Poultry Club of Great Britain...

*Egg Production

It takes different times for the egg to pass through the different areas of the oviduct the addition of the shell taking the longest time:
&#8226; 15 minutes in the infundibulum (fertilised here if cockerel available plus chalazae added)
&#8226; 3 hours in the magnum to add albumen (white of egg)
&#8226; 1.5 hours in the isthmus to add shell membrane
&#8226; 20 hours in the uterus/shell gland for shell deposition plus pigment
&#8226; 1 minute in the vagina which is extruded out past the vent to avoid the faeces


This total of 25 hours to lay an egg explains why hens do not lay every day as the hen will ovulate 30 minutes after laying and eventually it is dark when this should happen: she then misses producing an egg the next day.[*I][/I]

http://www.poultryclub.org/eggs/egg-production/


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## popsdosh (1 March 2017)

hopscotch bandit said:





As you are so keen on insisting I am wrong a quick search has found me an abstract from The Poultry Club of Great Britain...

*Egg Production

It takes different times for the egg to pass through the different areas of the oviduct the addition of the shell taking the longest time:
 15 minutes in the infundibulum (fertilised here if cockerel available plus chalazae added)
 3 hours in the magnum to add albumen (white of egg)
 1.5 hours in the isthmus to add shell membrane
 20 hours in the uterus/shell gland for shell deposition plus pigment
 1 minute in the vagina which is extruded out past the vent to avoid the faeces


This total of 25 hours to lay an egg explains why hens do not lay every day as the hen will ovulate 30 minutes after laying and eventually it is dark when this should happen: she then misses producing an egg the next day.[*I][/I]

http://www.poultryclub.org/eggs/egg-production/

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What that neglects to tell you is the yolks are formed for many days prior to that . The sequence there just refers to to shell formation and im not sure about you but I avoid eating the shell if I can! so you have eaten eggs formed in cages lol. So sure of yourself arent you a little knowledge is a bad thing .


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## MotherOfChickens (1 March 2017)

hopscotch bandit said:



			Sorry don't quite understand that remark.Eggs take 24 or 25 hours to form in a hen and up to an hour to lay.We had the hens the day they were pulled from the battery cage.Why would we want to eat eggs that were laid within that 24 hour period if we are against battery cageegg production?  Please do share.
		
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so its ok to waste the eggs the poor little hens managed to lay under such awful conditions then? why is wasting them acceptable? and how much did you pay for the 'rescue' hens out of interest?


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## popsdosh (1 March 2017)

MotherOfChickens said:



			so its ok to waste the eggs the poor little hens managed to lay under such awful conditions then? why is wasting them acceptable? and how much did you pay for the 'rescue' hens out of interest?
		
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Not sure where they would have got hens pulled from battery cages in the uk, they were outlawed in 2011 perhaps they missed that out of the leaflets as well.


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## hopscotch bandit (1 March 2017)

popsdosh said:



			What that neglects to tell you is the yolks are formed for many days prior to that . The sequence there just refers to to shell formation and im not sure about you but I avoid eating the shell if I can! so you have eaten eggs formed in cages lol. So sure of yourself arent you a little knowledge is a bad thing .

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Talk about splitting hairs.


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## The Fuzzy Furry (1 March 2017)

hopscotch bandit said:



			Talk about splitting hairs.
		
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Breaking eggs?  At least they are not walking on eggshells  

Actually AC, they are right, not splitting hairs, but factually correct.


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## hopscotch bandit (1 March 2017)

MotherOfChickens said:



			so its ok to waste the eggs the poor little hens managed to lay under such awful conditions then? why is wasting them acceptable? and how much did you pay for the 'rescue' hens out of interest?
		
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I didn't say the eggs were wasted, my parents had them.We had a dozen hens.This was about eight or nine years ago when we lived in surrey.We paid five pounds for the hens the BHWT who I volunteered for usually asked for a donation of a couple of pounds per bird of adopters.It was about 25 miles from home so I only volunteered occassionaly but it was good fun and I enjoyed it.


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## The Fuzzy Furry (1 March 2017)

Did you get them tested 1st tho? Usually you need to with battery chickens.

For EMS or perhaps for cushings?


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## MotherOfChickens (1 March 2017)

popsdosh said:



			Not sure where they would have got hens pulled from battery cages in the uk, they were outlawed in 2011 perhaps they missed that out of the leaflets as well.
		
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the whole sanctimonious  'rescuing commercial hens' thing is beyond me (fine to do it, don't preach about it with incorrect info). why are these people not out rescuing cattle going for slaughter-and paying for them.


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## hopscotch bandit (1 March 2017)

MotherOfChickens said:



			the whole sanctimonious  'rescuing commercial hens' thing is beyond me (fine to do it, don't preach about it with incorrect info). why are these people not out rescuing cattle going for slaughter-and paying for them.
		
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I am not preaching about anything.I do not have incorrect information.The information on the link was from the Poulty Club of Great Britain for goodness sake. And if anyone is sanctimonious it is you.There is nothing wrong with helping rescue hens that have had a c*** life and letting them experience freedom and retirement there are thousands that do this and get huge enjoyment out of it.You should try doing a bit of voluntary work instead of sitting on here judging others.So silly your example of cows.Its a charity so obviously you are paying for there work, there petrol, there time and the farmers need paying to.Why would you not pay is beyond me how stupid duh.

FF I am not AC. ha ha how funny and popsdosh was splitting hairs and she seems the type that would argue with herself in a paper bag.


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## cobgoblin (1 March 2017)

Batteries were still around 8-9 years ago... I had some ex battery hens many years before that, they were great and well worth having.

The problem with rescuing cows is they are errm ... Large!

The eggs haven't been free range for three months although have continued to be sold as such. Didn't everyone say that the EU would preserve their status?.. Apparently not.


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## MotherOfChickens (1 March 2017)

cobgoblin said:



			The eggs haven't been free range for three months although have continued to be sold as such. Didn't everyone say that the EU would preserve their status?.. Apparently not.
		
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free range eggs aren't that important outside of the UK apparently.


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## ester (1 March 2017)

Partly I suspect because it would have been a labelling nightmare, not just for the eggs but all the products containing them that purport to contain free range eggs.

I don't understand why anyone would be bothered about only the bit they don't eat being produced free range instead of caged rather than all the bits they do eat inside, I don't see how that is splitting hairs I would have thought the bits you do eat would surely be just as important if it was something you felt strongly about.


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## hopscotch bandit (1 March 2017)

ester said:



			Partly I suspect because it would have been a labelling nightmare, not just for the eggs but all the products containing them that purport to contain free range eggs.
		
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I think they have started to put stickers on egg boxes to say that the hens that laid them have been kept in barns for there welfare.hens need four square metres of space per hen outside and access to vegetation to be called free range.


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## Cecile (1 March 2017)

Signs relating to free range eggs were even being displayed in the petrol station around here, I didn't even know petrol stations sold eggs

http://www.pid-labelling.co.uk/new-free-range-egg-stickers/

Australia also seems to have a thing about free range eggs

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/re...t/news-story/e45828daeefc450f2fdb55c57cc6c875


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## MotherOfChickens (1 March 2017)

Cecile said:



			Australia also seems to have a thing about free range eggs
		
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maybe so, but the drive for barn/free range has been UK led in Europe-according to one of the biggest manufacturers of commercial poultry housing in Europe. 

I've not bought a shop egg or chicken in some years-I grow my own. I do however, now work on the fringes of the industry. I see as many (not better/worse-just different) welfare concerns in backyard flocks as I do the commercial ones tbh. too many people eat free range eggs but happy to eat broiler chicken, its a strange argument.


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## hopscotch bandit (1 March 2017)

MotherOfChickens said:



			maybe so, but the drive for barn/free range has been UK led in Europe-according to one of the biggest manufacturers of commercial poultry housing in Europe. 

I've not bought a shop egg or chicken in some years-I grow my own. I do however, now work on the fringes of the industry. I see as many (not better/worse-just different) welfare concerns in backyard flocks as I do the commercial ones tbh. too many people eat free range eggs but happy to eat broiler chicken, its a strange argument.
		
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Sometimes the strange argument as you call it isn't about free range eggs v eating free range chickens.KFC still tastes nice to me today even though I gave up eating it when we had our hens.Sometimes some of us just want to give a home to a 17 month old bird that has never known freedom and would otherwise be sent off for slaughter...what a sad end to a little life that has never experienced grass under its feet, or seen a bird fly overhead or played tug of war with a worm or slug with another hen,or run from the bottom of the garden to the top when you called them running so fast theywould almost go a**e over tip. how much satisfaction we had from seeing our little oven readies confidence grow alongside there feathers.You can explain it to someone unless you have experienced that for yourself.As for welfare concerns in backyards I quite agree.But you could say that about any animal that is rescued.Hen adopters are not vetted but its amazing how easily you can spot an ungeniune person on adoption day and send them on there way.Our hens had a massive run free ranged in one acre were taken to the vets when ill which was very rarely and dusted regularly for redmite and were fed on the best corn and mealworms.We read books before commiting to having them and I had handling experience through the volunteering I did.they were ringed wings clipped and individually named. so laugh all you like but even a hen has feelings and emotions.You cant put a price on giving freedom and liberty and a chance at life.


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## ester (1 March 2017)

I think of all users MoC is one of the least likely to laugh at the concept of hens having feelings or naming them, given her username and all .

Cecile is that for those eggs being produced from high risk areas that have therefore gone over the 12 week permitted housing time for free range or were others using it before that? I haven't spotted any round here so I am wondering if it is location dependent.


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## hopscotch bandit (1 March 2017)

ester said:



			I think of all users MoC is one of the least likely to laugh at the concept of hens having feelings or naming them, given her username and all .

.
		
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Why such contempt for my comments then please?


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## SpringArising (1 March 2017)

MotherOfChickens said:



			the whole sanctimonious  'rescuing commercial hens' thing is beyond me (fine to do it, don't preach about it with incorrect info). why are these people not out rescuing cattle going for slaughter-and paying for them.
		
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You really can't understand the difference between having chickens vs. having cattle? What a daft question.


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## MotherOfChickens (1 March 2017)

SpringArising said:



			You really can't understand the difference between having chickens vs. having cattle? What a daft question.
		
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well of course I can. Theoretically/ethically the argument is the same though-unless people are vegan.I dont see people's outrage about sheep/cattle that have outlived their usefulness going to slaughter.
These hens are not rescues, they are not being rescued from a horrible life, they are merely stopped from going to slaughter. We have the argument on this forum all the time about rescue horses, meat men and well meaning people buying from them. I dont care if people do or dont buy ex batt hens, but they aren't acting against the industry they proclaim to despise so I find the holier than thou attitude a bit difficult to understand tbh.


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## SpringArising (1 March 2017)

MotherOfChickens said:



			well of course I can. Theoretically/ethically the argument is the same though-unless people are vegan.I dont see people's outrage about sheep/cattle that have outlived their usefulness going to slaughter.
These hens are not rescues, they are not being rescued from a horrible life, they are merely stopped from going to slaughter. We have the argument on this forum all the time about rescue horses, meat men and well meaning people buying from them. I dont care if people do or dont buy ex batt hens, but they aren't acting against the industry they proclaim to despise so I find the holier than thou attitude a bit difficult to understand tbh.
		
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But they are making a difference to an animal's life, and that counts for a lot.


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## Clodagh (1 March 2017)

Now I get that HB has not made any friends on many threads, but do calm down people! You still have battery hens now, they are in 'enhanced cages' and have a bit more space than the old days.
I think anyone who rehomes them is doing a good thing, and if they don't want to eat their eggs to start with, does that really matter? No, I don't rehome myself but I do think it is a nice thing to do.


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## Cecile (1 March 2017)

I do however, now work on the fringes of the industry. I see as many (not better/worse-just different) welfare concerns in backyard flocks as I do the commercial ones tbh. 

I can well believe that, sometimes I go into people's gardens with chickens and am somewhat taken aback with how they are being kept, green water and food all over the shop, I usually end up with a hose or looking for a jet wash.
Not everyone obviously some are kept in an immaculate way


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## Cecile (1 March 2017)

ester said:



			I think of all users MoC is one of the least likely to laugh at the concept of hens having feelings or naming them, given her username and all .

Cecile is that for those eggs being produced from high risk areas that have therefore gone over the 12 week permitted housing time for free range or were others using it before that? I haven't spotted any round here so I am wondering if it is location dependent.
		
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Not in a high risk area, Berks/Hants border, these signs are just about everywhere around here but not sure why, I just assumed it was throughout the country


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## MotherOfChickens (1 March 2017)

Cecile said:



			I do however, now work on the fringes of the industry. I see as many (not better/worse-just different) welfare concerns in backyard flocks as I do the commercial ones tbh. 

I can well believe that, sometimes I go into people's gardens with chickens and am somewhat taken aback with how they are being kept, green water and food all over the shop, I usually end up with a hose or looking for a jet wash.
Not everyone obviously some are kept in an immaculate way
		
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not just that-some just seem to periodically stock up to supply the local fox;  so many won't pay for vet treatment but won't cull; out of control red mite infestations/lack of other parasite control; dumping of unwanted cockerels; the fact that many aren't fed for way too long over night in the winter. but hey, as long as they have a bit more space the other freedoms don't matter right? of course not all do this but backyard keeping of chickens and ducks often falls short of what it should be. (not aimed at anyone in particular-no need for anyone to get defensive).


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## Clodagh (1 March 2017)

MotherOfChickens said:



			not just that-some just seem to periodically stock up to supply the local fox;  so many won't pay for vet treatment but won't cull; out of control red mite infestations/lack of other parasite control; dumping of unwanted cockerels; the fact that many aren't fed for way too long over night in the winter. but hey, as long as they have a bit more space the other freedoms don't matter right? of course not all do this but backyard keeping of chickens and ducks often falls short of what it should be. (not aimed at anyone in particular-no need for anyone to get defensive).
		
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I couldn't agree with you more, I mean how hard is it to look after a chook properly? And the no vet policy 'But I can't cull it either, because I love it, so I will put it in a box and slowly let it rot and starve, that is kinder (read cheaper)' attitude.


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## ester (1 March 2017)

I know very few friends with chook but still come across it's sick, I'm not taking it to the vet and I can't neck it either I am hoping she just dies quietly. . . 
I was WTF :eek3: would you do that with any of your other animals?!


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## Clodagh (1 March 2017)

ester said:



			I know very few friends with chook but still come across it's sick, I'm not taking it to the vet and I can't neck it either I am hoping she just dies quietly. . . 
I was WTF :eek3: would you do that with any of your other animals?!
		
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Imagnie doing it to a dog, you would be prosecuted PDQ


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## TheresaW (1 March 2017)

I get my eggs from one of the ladies who keeps her horses along from me. She has chooks at home, and the eggs are lovely.  We were talking the other day just generally, amd I said, can they still be classed as free range at the moment?

I have also visited Clodagh many times and seen her chooks.  Was even there when she had to neck a cockerel.  I didn't watch, but OH did, and then we took him home and gave him to our ferrets!


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## hopscotch bandit (2 March 2017)

ester said:



			I know very few friends with chook but still come across it's sick, I'm not taking it to the vet and I can't neck it either I am hoping she just dies quietly. . . 
I was WTF :eek3: would you do that with any of your other animals?!
		
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That's terrible.we were lucky enough to have an avarian vet in our community.we had one pts this way - under no illusions its not the easiest way to kill a hen so it was taken away so we didn't see it happen and another necked by someone who knew what they were doing.ours were treated with flubenvet and red mite powder as was there coop and this was cleaned EVERYDAY without fail and the run was swept every week with the feeders washed out.we were anal about it in fact. we used to walk the birds down to the wood with a spade and dig holes for them in the dirt mounds looking for worms there enthusiasm knew no bounds -trying to get them back up again to their section of the field afterwards was a nightmare ha ha.I understand some are not kept this way and once the initial enthusiasm of chicken keeping has died down the birds welfare falls short but its not fair or logical to tar everyone with the same brush.giving a life to something that would not of otherwise had one is better than not doing anything at all and people should in my opinon be encouraged to do so.I suspect people who say otherwise on this post are not reflecting there true opinions instead are weirdly wanting to see a  person rise.


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## Cortez (2 March 2017)

ester said:



			I know very few friends with chook but still come across it's sick, I'm not taking it to the vet and I can't neck it either I am hoping she just dies quietly. . . 
I was WTF :eek3: would you do that with any of your other animals?!
		
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Crikey, that's AWFUL.....how could you do that? We chop their heads off when doing The Deed, not being confidant enough to do a clean job by pulling the neck, but it would be totally unethical to just leave them suffering.


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## Cecile (2 March 2017)

hopscotch bandit said:



			That's terrible.we were lucky enough to have an avarian vet in our community.we had one pts this way - under no illusions its not the easiest way to kill a hen so it was taken away so we didn't see it happen and another necked by someone who knew what they were doing.ours were treated with flubenvet and red mite powder as was there coop and this was cleaned EVERYDAY without fail and the run was swept every week with the feeders washed out.we were anal about it in fact. we used to walk the birds down to the wood with a spade and dig holes for them in the dirt mounds looking for worms there enthusiasm knew no bounds -trying to get them back up again to their section of the field afterwards was a nightmare ha ha.I understand some are not kept this way and once the initial enthusiasm of chicken keeping has died down the birds welfare falls short but its not fair or logical to tar everyone with the same brush.giving a life to something that would not of otherwise had one is better than not doing anything at all and people should in my opinon be encouraged to do so.I suspect people who say otherwise on this post are not reflecting there true opinions instead are weirdly wanting to see a  person rise.
		
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You sound like a lovely owner of chickens, I'm not sure about wanting to see a person rise I just think everyone thinks differently and it would be a weird world if we all thought the same way
I have also spent time trying to put things right when I have sent a quick text to someone and unwittingly upset someone without any intention at all on my behalf
Try never to take answers on here personally as it may not be intended that way and if you really feel things may be aimed at you try to have the attitude like me *You are confusing me with someone who gives a s**t*


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## Cecile (2 March 2017)

Front page on South East Farmer March edition (Can be read on line)
Farm faces bleak future under bird flu clamp down
www.southeastfarmer.net


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## hopscotch bandit (2 March 2017)

Cecile said:



			Try never to take answers on here personally as it may not be intended that way and if you really feel things may be aimed at you try to have the attitude like me *You are confusing me with someone who gives a s**t*
		
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Yes you are right thankyou


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