# Paddock Maintenance



## Tristan (19 July 2010)

Hello all,

I'm looking into paddock maintenance and just wondered if people would mind sharing their opinions? 

General opinions on what you tend to do, or even what you don't do if you feel that it's unnecessary you are welcome. 

More specifically though, people's use of paddock maintenance companies for certain or all tasks, why you would / wouldn't use one, what you'd expect to pay, or even if you have looked in the past and struggled to find someone.

Thanks,

Tristan


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## martlin (19 July 2010)

A bit of market research then
We harrow, roll and fertilise our fields, most of the time bring contractors in to do that as have our hands full anyway with other commitments.
We don't poo pick, with the exception of few small paddocks that are difficult to harrow due to several corners and their tiny acreage.
We spread our own muck as well as using Nitrogen based fertilisers.
We rarely pay our 'contractors', ie we buy the fert, seed or whatever is needed, but the rest is done as sort of bartering arrangement we share fencing jobs, all the field maintenance, haymaking etc between us - own little co-op you could say.


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## Tristan (19 July 2010)

Sounds a good way of doing it with the 'many hands' approach and the bartering. Interesting that you do your own hay making - several people that I've spoken too have felt that agricultural contractors they have had in before bumped them down the list due to having smaller acreages and the hay quality had suffered as a result.

That obvious it was research eh?!  Still, a little research now might save a load of  later!


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## martlin (19 July 2010)

I think I have enough land (40 acres) to interest any agri contractor
One thing more I would say - I would never, ever employ anybody who calls themselves 'paddock maintenance' person as it seems to me that this job title itself somehow is supposed to justify exorbitant prices


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## Tristan (19 July 2010)

That's an interesting one. To me, 'paddock maintenance' is a variety of tasks. So any agri contractor coming in to top a paddock for example would be the 'paddock maintenance person'.

Or is it that companies who focus on smaller scale agricultural contracting are generally charging more than the ones who's main focus is the larger scale commercial farms?

Anyone else used both and found the same \ opposite?


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## Honey08 (19 July 2010)

Yes - defnately use the local farmer.  Paddock maintainer sounds like they've seen you coming...  We own the local garage, and service the local farmer's cars, so they are fair with us...


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## BlackSheep (19 July 2010)

Try and find a local farmer who will help with the odd thing you can't do yourself.
Having said that, we stopped making our own hay some years ago as the farmers naturally give their own fields priority and will leave yours to wait! We fretted about when he would come, and then when he would turn and then bale etc etc, so now we just graze our (limited) acreage.
We top when necessary - yesterday - for part of the land, and will possibly do the same later on.
We try and roll early/late spring depending on weather, and do have to rely on farmer for that.
The total cost is minimal compared to vetsbills!


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## Tristan (19 July 2010)

Sorry, my first post isn't that clear on where I was coming from. I'm not looking for someone to provide these services to me, more a finding out people's opinions on companies which do provide the services and why they do \ do not use them. 

I used to be the local farmer, and since stopping farming have been thinking about a business which focuses on smaller landowners (not only horse owners) who for a variety of reasons may not want to do the jobs themselves, or may simply not want to invest money into machinery or have the time spare. Farmers are a good option for a lot of people, but again, some people don't seem to understand why their own land is put first and you get daily phone calls asking if 'today's the day' and would prefer to pay a company to provide for them.

Obviously everyone is different, but that's really the idea behind me asking such a popular and well used forum for their opinions


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## Honey08 (19 July 2010)

Well from that angle- we sold our farmhouse to posh wannabe country folk who insisted on having two acres of land, which they promptly let go to seed and weed.  They pay a fortune to have it cut every few months so "it stays nice and green".  They also paid someone to put in a large pond, and "rustic" (as in not straight planks, but wavy ones with bark on) post and rail fencing.  They're your target market for paddock management really, not normal horsey people who are usually skint!!


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## Tristan (19 July 2010)

Yes, our farm buildings are now craft workshops / holiday lets, a farm shop and the Sussex barn is a wedding venue!!

If anyone has got a quote from a company then I'd be very interested in seeing how inflated it is over the prices that people would be more comfortable with. From various company websites I've read they do seem at least partially aimed at people keeping horses, so I've assumed that there must be a percentage of people keeping horses who use them...logically anyway!


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## Booboos (19 July 2010)

We do everything we need ourselves because the local farmers are so busy they never turn up and that stresses me! 

We weed kill regularly, use fertilisers rarely (we have very good grass) and do any tiny bits of re-seeding required ourselves. We don't poo pick (we have more land than horses so we get away without poo picking), I would love to harrow and roll but we can't afford the equipment. We swap our hay crop with the local farmer who trims our hedges in exchange - it's the only way to get him to cut the hay and at least it gets the hedgerow done!


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## martlin (19 July 2010)

Tristan said:



			Yes, our farm buildings are now craft workshops / holiday lets, a farm shop and the Sussex barn is a wedding venue!!

If anyone has got a quote from a company then I'd be very interested in seeing how inflated it is over the prices that people would be more comfortable with. From various company websites I've read they do seem at least partially aimed at people keeping horses, so I've assumed that there must be a percentage of people keeping horses who use them...logically anyway!
		
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Well, an acquaintance of mine had her 7 acres of paddocks fertilised with the same fertiliser as mine, but by a paddock maintenance company - she paid £320, I spent £450
I needed 600m of boundary fence doing with stock proof fencing - partially sheep netting and barbed wire (for cows before you all jump on me) and partially sheep netting and plain/electric wire. I was quoted £7 per metre by said paddock maintenance company (I had the materials). In the end I got my botty in gear, rounded up a mate with post knocker as didn't fancy that stretch with a hand-held one, gave him £30 for fuel and did all the rest myself - it does help that I have most of the gear though, as clamps, strainers, chains etc.
Now I can barter quite a lot with my neighbours - not bad for few hundred quid I spent on equipment.


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## T-Bag (20 July 2010)

martlin said:



			Well, an acquaintance of mine had her 7 acres of paddocks fertilised with the same fertiliser as mine, but by a paddock maintenance company - she paid £320, I spent £450
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sorry to hijack the thread

but the farmer i get my haylage from said i shouldn't fertilised my fileds as it will get too rich for the horses as I wanted to muck spread on them.

my land is sandy, i don't think the grass is great and is patches in places

how do you know if you should fertilised or not?

thanks
tb


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## MardyMare (20 July 2010)

We have about 6 acres spare that we use for haylage or hay (done haylage this year) and then a further acreage for paddocks/rotation. And then once hay is cut horses go out there for a while.   We use the local farmer who will come up and sort it all out for us.  He can also organise sheep to come and graze it although we are thinking of getting some of our own.  My single biggest problem is removal of the muck heap!  I tried bagging and giving it away and phoned companies who want to charge a lot (imo) and asked local farmers (already getting it from someone else).  It drives me crazy worrying about it.  I wish there was somewhere like the local tip you could go and just dump it - someone must have the facitility to compost and bag it and want loads of it?


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## Tristan (20 July 2010)

T-Bag said:



			sorry to hijack the thread

but the farmer i get my haylage from said i shouldn't fertilised my fileds as it will get too rich for the horses as I wanted to muck spread on them.

my land is sandy, i don't think the grass is great and is patches in places

how do you know if you should fertilised or not?

thanks
tb
		
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I think the place to start would be with a soil analysis. This will help you see what you soil is lacking in terms of nutrients and what (if anything) should be applied and in what quantity so you avoid making it too rich. If you have poor grass growth and have noticed increases in weeds such as buttercups, it may be that your soil pH is low and may need lime applying rather than fertiliser. The soil analysis would be the place to start IMHO though.


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## T-Bag (20 July 2010)

Tristan said:



			I think the place to start would be with a soil analysis. This will help you see what you soil is lacking in terms of nutrients and what (if anything) should be applied and in what quantity so you avoid making it too rich. If you have poor grass growth and have noticed increases in weeds such as buttercups, it may be that your soil pH is low and may need lime applying rather than fertiliser. The soil analysis would be the place to start IMHO though.
		
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The fields were full of buttercups earlier in the year, ragwort is everywhere (or is till we pull it out)

if I did end up putting lime on, when and how much rest do i have to give the paddock?

and how does one go about getting a soil sample looked at?

sorry for the questions


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## T-Bag (20 July 2010)

MardyMare2 said:



			My single biggest problem is removal of the muck heap!  I tried bagging and giving it away and phoned companies who want to charge a lot (imo) and asked local farmers (already getting it from someone else).  It drives me crazy worrying about it.  I wish there was somewhere like the local tip you could go and just dump it - someone must have the facitility to compost and bag it and want loads of it?
		
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I have a huge one as well.................. muck heap that is, same here local farmers already getting it from somewhere else!!


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## T-Bag (20 July 2010)

I've just found this
http://www.forestry.gov.uk/fr/INFD-79MDEX#prices

but christ what does one ask for?


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## Tristan (20 July 2010)

Booboos said:



			We do everything we need ourselves because the local farmers are so busy they never turn up and that stresses me! 

We weed kill regularly, use fertilisers rarely (we have very good grass) and do any tiny bits of re-seeding required ourselves. We don't poo pick (we have more land than horses so we get away without poo picking), I would love to harrow and roll but we can't afford the equipment. We swap our hay crop with the local farmer who trims our hedges in exchange - it's the only way to get him to cut the hay and at least it gets the hedgerow done!
		
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I can see how that's frustrating, which I think is why some people choose to pay a company to turn up on a specific day. I suppose in that way you're partly paying for a level of customer service that you may not get with someone doing you a favour or with another primary interest.

I also think that you've mentioned one other point I think might be key in the cost of the machinery. There's obviously various levels you can go to on this with ATVs and 4x4s being able to quite a lot of tasks, and the more land you have the more cost effective it is and the quicker you'll see a return on your investment in the machinery. If you had a five acre field topped and harrowed twice each year by a company, this seems to cost around £600-700 (from quotes I've seen anyway). If you bought an ATV, harrow and self prowered topper then you might need to spend a few thousand initial investment, plus ongoing maintenance / repairs etc, in which case it could be several years before you start to benefit.


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## Tristan (20 July 2010)

T-Bag said:



			if I did end up putting lime on, when and how much rest do i have to give the paddock?
		
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If you did apply lime then the paddock should be rested until after a good rain and it has been washed in. You can also use calcified seaweed to correct soil pH which can be grazed straight away.


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## flyingfeet (20 July 2010)

We have 45 acres and a fair bit of kit, but still use contractors

Generally a local contractor will do some big baling for us, as investing in kit that large will not pay off. However this year the crop is so thin, that the 35 year old small baler handled it just fine! 

I did try and get hold of a paddock maintenance chap for spraying, but he was busy when it was still; and did call in twice and was surprised how windy it was. 

I have then bought a little towable sprayer for the lawn mower for £260 on eBay with a 6ft boom to do spot spraying (Headland polo to kill the buttercups)

To be honest I'd have rather paid chap with ATV who would have done it in half the time, but our farm is tricky with the wind. 

Right now we are getting quotes for fencing which is the next task! 

We've been looking at hedge cutters, but I think we will get a contractor in, as not really worth the investment for our acreage.


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## Booboos (20 July 2010)

Tristan said:



			I can see how that's frustrating, which I think is why some people choose to pay a company to turn up on a specific day. I suppose in that way you're partly paying for a level of customer service that you may not get with someone doing you a favour or with another primary interest.

I also think that you've mentioned one other point I think might be key in the cost of the machinery. There's obviously various levels you can go to on this with ATVs and 4x4s being able to quite a lot of tasks, and the more land you have the more cost effective it is and the quicker you'll see a return on your investment in the machinery. If you had a five acre field topped and harrowed twice each year by a company, this seems to cost around £600-700 (from quotes I've seen anyway). If you bought an ATV, harrow and self prowered topper then you might need to spend a few thousand initial investment, plus ongoing maintenance / repairs etc, in which case it could be several years before you start to benefit.
		
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I see what you mean and I think you have a point, but it can also go wrong. We tried with a small second hand tractor when we got our first place (40 acres) but it was really, really hard work. The tractor broke down a lot and we spent a lot of money keeping it in a relatively safe state and even when it did work it was not exactly easy to use (OH and I have no particular DIY skills). Even with that we never managed to cut and bale hay, aside from the equipment needed we didn't have the space to store the hay once baled or the need for so much hay, so we would then need to advertise to sell it but buyer collect, etc.

At the current place we would be paying 300-400 for hedge cutting every year (we have a lot of hedgerows) so we swap that for cut your own hay from 17 acres and everyone is happy! When we had 5 acres topped I only paid 200, but I also usually let the horses eat it long as it seems to have less nutrients in it (we have more land than we need though, so our management style reflects that).


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## Tristan (20 July 2010)

I agree and think that a company may take those hassles out of the land side of things, leaving people more free time \ money to concentrate on the horses, which is essentially the whole reason you're doing it anyway!

Certainly there may be something to be said for knowing that hedgecutting is £300-400 for you and that cost is fixed and the task taken care of. Opposed to a similar situation to your first place where you may have had to invest the money in the machinery first, worry about the tractor not working, working the machinery, finding the time etc.

Oh, and and just to add to my last post - the £600-700 was per year (for two tops, two harrows. Just re-read and I wasn't very clear).


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## martlin (20 July 2010)

T-Bag said:



			sorry to hijack the thread

but the farmer i get my haylage from said i shouldn't fertilised my fileds as it will get too rich for the horses as I wanted to muck spread on them.

my land is sandy, i don't think the grass is great and is patches in places

how do you know if you should fertilised or not?

thanks
tb
		
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You've already got some answers All I can tell you is that we just know... it's difficult to explain, but when we look at our grass in mid May, we can tell if it needs Nitrogen or not
We have very light sandy soil, it's not the best thing to grow lush grass on but the advantage is no mud in winter. That's why we also spread quite a lot of muck (mixed from horses and cattle) to give some 'body' to the soil. Sheep are by far the best pasture improvers though.
We need (especially this year) every single blade of grass our land can give us, so fertilising is essential for the crop to shoot up at the right time.


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## T-Bag (20 July 2010)

martlin said:



			You've already got some answers All I can tell you is that we just know... it's difficult to explain, but when we look at our grass in mid May, we can tell if it needs Nitrogen or not
We have very light sandy soil, it's not the best thing to grow lush grass on but the advantage is no mud in winter. That's why we also spread quite a lot of muck (mixed from horses and cattle) to give some 'body' to the soil. Sheep are by far the best pasture improvers though.
We need (especially this year) every single blade of grass our land can give us, so fertilising is essential for the crop to shoot up at the right time.
		
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I have 35 aches, but I only use it for grazing, no hay/haylage growing (at the moment anyway)

I wanted to over seed as well, but same farmer said no point as horses will just kill the seed galloping about as the roots wont be as strong as what is already there.

I just don't know!!


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## martlin (20 July 2010)

T-Bag said:



			I have 35 aches, but I only use it for grazing, no hay/haylage growing (at the moment anyway)

I wanted to over seed as well, but same farmer said no point as horses will just kill the seed galloping about as the roots wont be as strong as what is already there.

I just don't know!!
		
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Might it be the case that said farmer just can't be arsed to do it for you so finds excuses not to?

You need to leave it for a bit when you overseed, that's true, at least long enough for the seed to germinate.


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## T-Bag (20 July 2010)

martlin said:



			Might it be the case that said farmer just can't be arsed to do it for you so finds excuses not to?

You need to leave it for a bit when you overseed, that's true, at least long enough for the seed to germinate.
		
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I never asked him, told him what I was going to do and he said don't, the annoying thing is that was back in spring, spoke to him last week about the grass being patchy and he said you might try and put something on it or over seed (could of hit him)

so how do sheep help?

if I got 3 or 4 and let them graze with the horses in each paddock 2 weeks at a time, does that help and I assume you also have to remove their droppings as well?


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## Tristan (20 July 2010)

T-Bag said:



			I have 35 aches, but I only use it for grazing, no hay/haylage growing (at the moment anyway)

I wanted to over seed as well, but same farmer said no point as horses will just kill the seed galloping about as the roots wont be as strong as what is already there.

I just don't know!!
		
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With overseeding it can be beneficial to harrow first, pulling out dead thatch etc and creating space for the new plants to establish. These don't have to be seperate tasks though with some broadcast seeders coming with harrows attached. Sometimes it can also be beneficial to roll afterwards to press seeds into the soil. Like already said by Martlin, leaving the horses off for a little while after will also give the new plants more of a chance to get going.

As mentioned, the soil analysis I think would be a good idea first. If the soil conditions aren't great for grass growth, new plants will struggle and you may find the effects of overseeding greatly reduced, or worse, money wasted on seed.


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## flowerlady (20 July 2010)

T-Bag said:



			I never asked him, told him what I was going to do and he said don't, the annoying thing is that was back in spring, spoke to him last week about the grass being patchy and he said you might try and put something on it or over seed (could of hit him)

so how do sheep help?

if I got 3 or 4 and let them graze with the horses in each paddock 2 weeks at a time, does that help and I assume you also have to remove their droppings as well?
		
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I will be interested in the reply to this as I have had 7 sheep on my paddock (although it is long) for over 1 month and they have no touched it hardly.  I do know that they are good even grazers but I thought by now they would have eaten alot more down.  Farmer is going to but some cattle on.  Martlin will this be better or worse?


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## T-Bag (20 July 2010)

Tristan said:



			As mentioned, the soil analysis I think would be a good idea first. If the soil conditions aren't great for grass growth, new plants will struggle and you may find the effects of overseeding greatly reduced, or worse, money wasted on seed.
		
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That makes alot of sense, I did buy a home sample kit, which I didn't bother to even open and read, so might get that out tonight.

thanks for your help both of you
TB


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## martlin (20 July 2010)

Right, lets start with sheep:
the stocking ratio for sheep is 6 ewes + their followers per acre, to graze with or after horses you can halve it and still get the benefit. I tend to 'blitz' my paddocks though, putting about 15 ewes to an acre for very short periods of time - that's for established grassland.
The sheep, although very even grazers, will not eat off long grass - for that you either need to top it or put some cattle on it, the cattle will fertilise it as well
You don't need to remove sheep droppings, they are great slow release fertiliser and with a bit of luck, the ewes will trod their own poo into the ground with a bit of rain, at the same time they will trod all the bits of root etc in, which will improve root structure and the 'body' of grass.

The overseeding:
there is no rule that says it should be done in spring - wettish, warmish (over 7 degrees C) Autumn is as good if not better

Creating pasture on sandy soil, starting with arable land.

In September drill sparce grass seed of a large variety, I've gone for Italian Ryegrass, which is very robust and will grow in any conditions. It will not produce dense crop, but is really good to start your venture off. It's high in protein, thus a bit rich for horses (IMO though better high protein and stalky than sugary), but will be sparce.
Leave over winter, if needs be fertilise in spring and take an early cut for hay/haylage/silage as you please.
At this point you can either introduce some sheep to graze it over summer or leave to grow.
At end of Summer (August) or early Autumn overseed with smaller, more 'horsey' grass mix like Timothy, roll, fertilise and leave for a bit.
Hey presto - horse friendly paddock with good grass that has full body and robust root structure

Now, I have several variations of this procedure, some paddocks I just use without overseeding as a 'sacrifice' with the intention of feeding hay in them over winter.
Others will be left alone, with loads of muck spread over them in late Autumn, then cut for haylage early next year and then used for grazing.

Other than that, just play it by eye and act accordingly.
In all cases I avoid seed mixtures containing clover as that will appear of it's own volition anyway


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## MardyMare (20 July 2010)

Thanks for that Martlin.  Very interesting.


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## applecart14 (20 July 2010)

The grass sickness organisation does not recommend using poo collectors on your paddock, in particular the sweeping brush type.  The action of the sweeping could be a possible link in grass sickness cases. Not sure if its because they change the molecular structure of the grass or soil or something, but if I were you I wouldn't take the risk.


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## marmalade76 (20 July 2010)

Honey08 said:



			Well from that angle- we sold our farmhouse to posh wannabe country folk who insisted on having two acres of land, which they promptly let go to seed and weed.  They pay a fortune to have it cut every few months so "it stays nice and green".  They also paid someone to put in a large pond, and "rustic" (as in not straight planks, but wavy ones with bark on) post and rail fencing.  They're your target market for paddock management really, not normal horsey people who are usually skint!!
		
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LOL, loads of folks like that round here!

One such family bought a house with several acres, turfed out the people who were renting the grazing 'cause the wife was scared of horses, then were begging my OH to do something with it!  They no longer live there. 

My OH is an ag contractor and he simply cannot afford to give people with paddocks the same rates as farmers. For example, he would normally charge a farmer about £15 per hour for chain harrowing and do several hours. A two acre paddock would only take a couple of hours so to take a tractor (in some cases having to load it on to a trailer if too far to drive it there) to someone's property to earn £30?? Not gonna happen I'm afraid!


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## Tristan (20 July 2010)

marmalade76 said:



			My OH is an ag contractor and he simply cannot afford to give people with paddocks the same rates as farmers. For example, he would normally charge a farmer about £15 per hour for chain harrowing and do several hours. A two acre paddock would only take a couple of hours so to take a tractor (in some cases having to load it on to a trailer if too far to drive it there) to someone's property to earn £30?? Not gonna happen I'm afraid!
		
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Indeed. Being more focused on management of smaller acreages, we'd buy the tractor and machinery to be able to cope with the jobs we'll cover - so a compact tractor would be ideal. Being an ag contractor means bigger acreages, bigger tractors, bigger machinery and a bit more hassle moving it all about - and of course it's all more expensive. Like you say, travelling for half and hour in a tractor for a few hours work just isn't going to cover those costs.

I'm hoping that this is where a 'paddock maintenance' company, focused on smaller areas and being more compact and transportable would come in. All yours opinions are very helpful too btw so, thanks to everyone so far! Keep them coming!


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## flowerlady (20 July 2010)

martlin said:



			Right, lets start with sheep:
the stocking ratio for sheep is 6 ewes + their followers per acre, to graze with or after horses you can halve it and still get the benefit. I tend to 'blitz' my paddocks though, putting about 15 ewes to an acre for very short periods of time - that's for established grassland.
The sheep, although very even grazers, will not eat off long grass - for that you either need to top it or put some cattle on it, the cattle will fertilise it as well
You don't need to remove sheep droppings, they are great slow release fertiliser and with a bit of luck, the ewes will trod their own poo into the ground with a bit of rain, at the same time they will trod all the bits of root etc in, which will improve root structure and the 'body' of grass.
		
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Martlin thanks for this the grass is long could almost have been hayed.  So sheep no good on it then until Cattle have been on it we will be having them on next week I think if cattle owner not gone on hols.  Can I ask you we have a wooden fence around 2 sides do they push fences? Should I put the electric on the fence part?


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## martlin (21 July 2010)

flowerlady said:



			Martlin thanks for this the grass is long could almost have been hayed.  So sheep no good on it then until Cattle have been on it we will be having them on next week I think if cattle owner not gone on hols.  Can I ask you we have a wooden fence around 2 sides do they push fences? Should I put the electric on the fence part?
		
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If there is enough grass they should not push on fences, however, if they feel like getting out it can get exciting If you put a run of electric wire at a hight that will zap them in the nose it should keep them off the fence altogether
What sort of cattle are you having? Breed I mean?


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