# Welsh section Ds- novice or not?



## FanyDuChamp (23 November 2011)

Welsh D- would you recommend for a novice rider/owner? What do you think of them? Any pictures welcome too. 
FDC


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## BigRed (23 November 2011)

There are welsh section D's who would be perfect for novice owners and others who are complete nut cases and far from perfect for a beginner.  You cannot brand any breed as being perfect.  Lots of the welsh ponies are bred for fiery temperaments, you only need to watch them being shown (especially the in hand classes), the one's who boil over, get placed at the top of the line.  The calm one's are not placed.

I have a friend who has D's.  I have to say of the 3 I have known, none would be suitable as novice rides.


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## noodle_ (23 November 2011)

no...

i know of one who was ruined for a long time by someone totally incompetant to handle it (was dangerous)

in the wrong hands tho, any horse can be unsuitable for a novice...  but welshies/warmbloods/arabs (feisty horses) moreso


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## rhino (23 November 2011)

Like any breed of horse or pony, depends on the individual


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## lyndsayberesford (23 November 2011)

there can be some that are suitable for novices but i would say most of the D's i have experienced are quite sharp and unsuitable for a novice.


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## winkles (23 November 2011)

My first 'proper' pony was a Welsh D, I adore him.

Taught me the ropes and was always forgiving, was a fast learner too when we started to try DR and adored jumping. He never got the whole 'seeing a stride' thing though and wouldn't work if he didn't have to


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## Brandy (23 November 2011)

In general, I would say no. 

There will be exceptions to this rule of course.

They can be very fiery, lively, bolshy and difficult.


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## Archiepoo (23 November 2011)

no would say to generalise any breed is not a good idea,ive had several Ds over the years and only one would have been suitable for a novice, most love to buck and have attitude! my current one that ive had since a foal is a sharp nervy bronco! some blood lines seem to be very sharp indeed!


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## Tinsel Trouble (23 November 2011)

I am sure this depends on the individual horse but I have owned a welsh D for 9 years and he is absolutely not suitable for a novice rider or handler. Our EDT has an assistant that refuses to deal with welsh Ds!!

I always say that if you can get a Welsh D to work for you consistantly you can ride anything. If you can ride a Welsh D correctly you will find old fashioned Warmbloods easy!!

They are renowned for being difficult and argumentative- you have to be assertive at all times and you have to know and believe you are in control- but not lose your temper!... but once they are on your side there is no better horse!
Mine has got between me and an abusive intruder on the yard and double barrelled them!!


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## brown tack (23 November 2011)

I think it depends wether it bred for the ring or as a riding horse. 

The show ring types tend to be firey when's the ridden ones tend to be more laid back. 

I think the latter are good for novices as they are easy to keep, ie hold weight, have good feet, a nice size that can carry a adult well with a leg at each corner. They don't tend to have to many lameness soundness issues, well  not the hundreds that I've known anyway. 

Bad points though are

Are pig headed
Will take the p
Won't do anything that they don't want to.

But most are quite laid back, won't spook at there own shadows. With a good support team behind the novice I say go for it. 

But stay away from the show ring types, cause they are more like tank tb's! Lol. Not meaning to dis welsh d's, (I've had a few fair few) but they are bred fir the spark not something a novice could cope with


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## ellie_e (23 November 2011)

rhino said:



			Like any breed of horse or pony, depends on the individual 

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THIS ^^^^^^^^^


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## winkles (23 November 2011)

Snowy shavings said:



			I think it depends wether it bred for the ring or as a riding horse. 

The show ring types tend to be firey when's the ridden ones tend to be more laid back.
		
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Agree with this & quote above!


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## xRobyn (23 November 2011)

General; no. But Phil was my first horse, got him when I was 12 and he was an 18 month old welsh colt! We've had our ups and downs but he's incredible.

With the right support I don't see why not, but I wouldn't necessarily recommend one.


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## dollymix (23 November 2011)

I don't think you can generalise and say a definite yes or no, although in my experience, welsh Ds tend to be quite fiesty! My girl certainly is and I wouldn't be happy for her to be ridden or handled (in some resects) by a novice. But I have met others who are much more chilled out.

Always happy to share pics of my beautiful girl


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## Polotash (23 November 2011)

Ditto, generally no. I know two who are lovely and quiet, and a lot more that are very firey and sharp! I've also bred two crossed with TBs and they were sharp too, although beautiful looking.

If you are looking for one a friend of mine breeds proper working cobs (NOT the showing type ones!) who are very steady. Website is Transwalestrails.


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## JR2011 (23 November 2011)

Another ditto on the generally no comment


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## Kat (23 November 2011)

It depends totally on the horse, and the novice in question but generally no. They are normally pretty opinionated, fairly quick (physically and mentally) and could get the better of a novice. Even a nice natured one (friend on the yard has a lovely genuine one) can be a bit sharp for many, there is also the issue of their flamboyant paces. When I shared a welsh D the owner commented that several people had not got on with him because of his trot. 

I am generally concerned when novices go looking for a certain breed it is far better to simply look for a horse that meets their criteria irrespective of looks and breeding. Often when novices want a certain breed it is down purely to image and pictures in books or one animal that they have known. 

Natives and traditional cobs are normally good doers with good feet but that alone doesn't make them good for novices. Managing the weight of a fatty can be difficult for an inexperienced person and many of the character traits makes these horses likely to take advantage of anyone not "on the ball". Far better to get a heinz 57 that does what is required than chase down a specific breed.


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## FanyDuChamp (23 November 2011)

I was asking because I made a sweeping statement on another thread that Welsh Ds are not really a suitable horse for a novice owner/ rider. My old guy was a Welsh D x with a trad cob (Mum was a SJ welshie, daddy got into the field from a gypsy camp.) Star was amazing, jumped like a cat, we hunted SJ county/ area and hacked for hours. But touch him with a crop and he did not stop broncing until you were off. He was opinionated, naughty, stubborn and out to be the best. Yet he was sweet and kind as well, gentle as a lamb with young children but would not tolerate fools at all. I would have loved another, looked at a gorgeous one down Warrington way but decided against it because my daughter was a novice. 

I loved my lad but he was not a novice's horse.
FDC


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## xRobyn (23 November 2011)

Missed out on the photos bit! I'm lucky in that my lad is quite a laid back sort, I can trust him out in the open for a gallop with other horses and he won't be (too) silly (course he gets excited but he's not rude) but I can also trust him enough to let my nephew fetch him in from the field and potter around the school with him. He's very tolerant with all sorts of riders (young, novice, good and just plain bad!) and I'd happily send someone out hacking on him so long as it wasn't on the road because he missed the memo about being brave  He's a traffic-phobe though (and only buses/dumper trucks/arctics etc) but get him onto a field/sea wall/forest/country lane and he's superb


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## Lotty (23 November 2011)

I have a Welsh D x Warmblood and I would not put a novice on her. I love her to pieces even if she is bad sometimes.


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## Lolo (23 November 2011)

I think if they are well brought up then then they can be dreams, but our experiences has taught us that if they aren't they really can use those massive shoulders to do a lot of barging!

Henry was only 14hh, superb jumping pony (literally unstoppable, he'd ping round 1.10m courses like they weren't there!), but he was also a handful. He had to be lead everywhere in a bridle or a chifney, because he was prone to charging off to get his own way. Al used to climb in and out of his stable because he'd barge out otherwise- if she was doing anything with him he had to be tied up. Ridden, he was very strong, and did try to get his own way all the time- he was ridden in a cheltenham gag but she also wore spurs and carried a whip, because he was strong but also a bit of an arse!

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=488915

That's him. All our other horses have been good on the ground, but he just knew how much he could get away with due to having got away with it! Astonishing pony though, took my sister from doing PC 2'9/ 3' classes to pinging round 1.10m ODEs, despite having done less than her!


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## BillyBob-Sleigh (23 November 2011)

my second pony was a Section D and definitely not suitable for a novice, she was a right stubborn cow! But had a terrific jump! There is however a Section D at the yard I'm on now who is one of the safest horses I've ever known, so it does depend on the individual.


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## Brandy (23 November 2011)

One word Lolo - WOW!!!!!


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## Damnation (23 November 2011)

rhino said:



			Like any breed of horse or pony, depends on the individual 

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This exactily.
I knew a Welsh D who is a girls first pony and she was novicey just off school ponies. He has given her confidence and tolerated her sub-standard riding, and improved it tremendously.

However I know of other D's that would just not be able to "cope" with a rider who wasn't balanced and confident. Completely depends on the horse, as with ANY horse of ANY breed.


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## FanyDuChamp (23 November 2011)

DamnChristmas said:



			This exactily.
I knew a Welsh D who is a girls first pony and she was novicey just off school ponies. He has given her confidence and tolerated her sub-standard riding, and improved it tremendously.

However I know of other D's that would just not be able to "cope" with a rider who wasn't balanced and confident. Completely depends on the horse, as with ANY horse of ANY breed.
		
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I totally agree, which is why I put up the thread as I had made a sweeping statement and then thought better of it. I love Welshies and would love another one. Then with Caps and Fany I do like a horse with quirks and character!
FDC


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## WelshD (23 November 2011)

They are strong, stubborn and bright - never a good combination!!

Seriously though, it does depend on the individual as others have already said but as they are effectively horsey tanks then you are more likely to get in to trouble with them than with some other breeds if they decide to misbehave


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## MrVelvet (23 November 2011)

I've not read all the replies. I do not think you can label breed as 'suitable for novices'. It's a bit like the prejudice in the dog world .. i.e. Pitbulls will eat children etc. I think it's a lot more to do with the way they are treat. I understand and fully accept that some breeds are 'wired' a little differently i.e. A TB is generally not suited to the novice riding school and the clydesdale type would not be suited to an eventing life.. but there are exceptions to every rule and I do not think its fair to say a novice should not own a D.  x


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## JR2011 (23 November 2011)

Yes there are those special rare ones out there that first time owners/novices are lucky to have but the majority of welsh D's aren't for the faint hearted.
People often make the mistake of getting a cob for their first horse and generally that is fine but i wouldn't class a welsh D in the standard of cob that most first timers would like to buy.
From what i understand the majority of work/calls an RA (recommended associate) gets are for welshies because of novice owners.


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## Miss L Toe (23 November 2011)

I had a sweet mare who would accept anyone on her back, others I have seen at studs, i felt were to strong and fiery for me [youngstock] as they were always handled by a strong male.


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## Lolo (23 November 2011)

Brandy said:



			One word Lolo - WOW!!!!!
		
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People did tend to say that when they saw him jump- he was a mix of exhilarating and terrifying! He was a stunning little pony, but Al (despite being tiny) had been riding naughty little ponies since she was 7- he just was a different brand of naughtiness! I think another part of her success with him was due to him being so unfit when she got him, as she had time to grow in confidence and size before he got too much!


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## catkin (23 November 2011)

Welsh Cobs and cobs are not the same though sometimes confused.

The Welsh can be fantastic if you click, nightmares if you don't. My own darling girl hasn't a nasty bone in her body but she is super-sensitive, uber-clever and chooses her human 'friends' very carefully. We think she's an absolute delight but it would be very easy for her to go 'off the rails' with someone who didn't understand the breed and their quirks - novice or not.


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## Merry Crisis (23 November 2011)

MrsD123 said:



			I had a sweet mare who would accept anyone on her back, others I have seen at studs, i felt were to strong and fiery for me [youngstock] as they were always handled by a strong male.
		
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Some of the best handlers of Welsh sec Ds in the show ring are women, they also manage to produce them very well to! Like anything to do with horses it is down to ability not how strong you are. Look at 8 stone jockeys on racehorses. I would say most strong males that handle these welsh cobs make the job look worse than it is due to them not being truly able!


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## Ranyhyn (23 November 2011)

It depends on what type of novice they were and what type of D it was


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## SaffronWelshDragon (23 November 2011)

I've had my beloved Welsh D for 10 years next year. She was my third pony (horse) so I was out of the novice category by then. She's of unknown breeding, an absolute sweetheart and wouldn't hurt a fly, but is also a chestnut mare and can be fiery and a little scatty although she wouldn't do anything naughty deliberately, she occasionally get excited. Most of the time she's level-headed and brave. She also puts her head down, practically touching the floor when I bridle her, not sure whether she had a tiny person tacking her up before I got her!

Not wanting to tar all horses of that breed (or any breed) with the same brush, I'm sure they vary hugely so best to try lots of different ones, personally I love the breed, they're far and away my favourite 







Edited to add: Loving all the photos


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## OWLIE185 (23 November 2011)

I have had completely the opposite experience.
My pure Welsh Section D is 100% safe with anyone on board to hack out alone or in company.  She is 100% bombproof and does not spook at anything.  100% to shoe, box vet etc.  Not a bad bone in her body.  100% trustworthy.
In her earlier life she was a show pony for many years.
She is also a ride and drive.


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## FestiveBoomBoom (23 November 2011)

I think it definitely depends on the individual. I have a 5 yr old Welsh D and he is a total saint, anyones ride. However when we first moved to our current livery yard I had a few comments from fellow liveries about how he looked like he could be a tricky ride/handful (they came to this conclusion by just looking at him!) and nothing could be further from the truth! I am very lucky in that he is flashy but at the same time very safe and sane. I will try and put some pics up....


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## miss_c (23 November 2011)

My D is very well mannered, but I wouldn't trust her with a novice as I reckon she'd soon cotton on and take the p!ss.  However my Mum has ridden her on the lunge (literally only in walk) and she went into plod mode.  On the other hand, somebody else got on her and they were ejected quite sharpish.  You definitely have to convince her that everything is HER idea, and if she doesn't want to do something you will end up with a 'discussion' on your hands.

There would be some D's suitable for novices, but the ones I know I would say no.

And some photos of my lovely girl... she has a cracking jump, and can pull a cracking dressage test!  She also looked after monkeybum13 (not that monkeybum13 needed looking after to be honest!) who got on her for the fourth time ever at showjumping and jumped her for the first time in the warmup!
































And looking after my then 68 year old Mum on Christmas Day 2009


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## FestiveBoomBoom (23 November 2011)

As per my previous post, anyone could get on him and have a plod about but to actually get him working nicely does require some firm riding at times! Not that he is naughty, just a little on the stubborn side. He is lovely to jump, very rarely says no and that's only when I mess it up, hacks alone and in company and can have a good gallop and pull him up no problem. If anything I would say he was a sod to handle on the ground when I first got him 18 months ago, could be bargey,drag you to the verges, didn't like picking his feet up, being bathed etc but is fine now.


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## SaffronWelshDragon (23 November 2011)

miss_christmas said:



			My D is very well mannered, but I wouldn't trust her with a novice as I reckon she'd soon cotton on and take the p!ss.  However my Mum has ridden her on the lunge (literally only in walk) and she went into plod mode.  On the other hand, somebody else got on her and they were ejected quite sharpish.  You definitely have to convince her that everything is HER idea, and if she doesn't want to do something you will end up with a 'discussion' on your hands.
		
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I totally agree with you there. Saf is the lead mare of our little herd, and when we get to a junction, she'll look left and right then make a decision as to which way to go. If it's the wrong way, we then have to have a slight discussion about it, but she always gives in with little argument. Just has to know that her opinion is being heard


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## Morgan123 (23 November 2011)

Agree it depends on the individual but I have heard lots of trainers, including Kelly MArks, say they'd be out of business if it weren't for Welsh Ds. I love mine dearly but God I wouldn't buy one again - he took a LOT of getting used to/teeth gritting/visits to a&e. Would never part with him though....


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## minimex2 (23 November 2011)

I wish i hadnt read this .  Im getting a new cob on Friday and very much looks like a welsh D, am im a novice.........

Another thing to worry about


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## NeverSayNever (23 November 2011)

as everyone else has said, it really depends on the horse and the person, I wouldnt rule it out as a possibility but Id advise to proceed with caution. Purely because I know some can be very bolshy and headstrong on the ground and ridden wise can really use those shoulders to their own advantage. 

My own experience is that I have a wonderful 7 year old mare who is a darling! She is looking after me beautifully and I wouldnt be riding her if she wasnt as safe as can be, given I am 4 months pregnant  She will go past anything out hacking, doesnt get silly and is a sweetheart to work with. 

I _do_ keep on top of her manners on the ground but because I do, I dont have a problem. She can also be very strong and is by no means a kick along plod. She is very forward and onward bound. Not in a jogging/silly way - just that she strides out with purpose, often leaving much bigger horses behind. I know my friend (whom i bought her from) had her mum hacking out on her who is a real novice and they got on fine but they would only walk as her speed and keeness worried her. She also did end up coming off her when she got a bit mareish and tried to use her heels on the other horse they were out with. She is very keen to please but if not ridden correctly in the school or if confused she will get her knickers in a twist - she wont do anything bad at all , just get stronger and fizzed up. So anyone really nervous who was hanging on and worried by her probably wouldnt get on so well. Id say a well balanced novice who wasnt too nervous about her being onward bound and a bit strong at times would be fine though!

She is, however, one of the most uncomplicated and easy going horses Ive had,she's a gem.













perfect manners charging up and down the beach last weekend


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## youngfarmer (23 November 2011)

A friend of mine owns a welsh D. He is older but very much quirky. Her 4 year old niece rides him on her own, off the lead rein and even jumps him. He still has a spark about him, even with her on board, but is slightly more placid and she has *touch wood* never fallen off him to date-even when she first jumped him and he flew at it and threw in a massive jump.

I would say they can be suitable for novice riders, and are very loyal!


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## angelish (23 November 2011)

depends ,just like any other breed they are individuals 

friend had one that was perfect for a novice ,she was lovely and would really look after you 

she also had one that was "wired to the noon"  although he was as safe as houses 
i bought my first welsh D project this year and he has only ever been ridden by novice riders but i would of said he was totally unsuitable for a novice but although he can be a little nervy he has the most wonderful temprement and would do his best to look after you 

he's so nice i think iv'e decided to keep him sshhhh


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## MiJodsR2BlinkinTite (23 November 2011)

I think one needs to look at the history of the breed: my understanding is that these cobs were bred to WORK, and work hard, in the coal mines primarily - not underground but doing the heavy jobs that were too much for the pit ponies and also were used as general driving ponies, being strong and hardy, good doers able to live off the side of a hillside with a gorse bush for shelter and a blade of grass to live on - and they thrived.

The problem is that when you take a breed that is meant to work and be kept busy, and use them as a leisure horse; that often means disaster unfortunately as these tough little cobs can be very endearing BUT if not handled firmly they can very quickly get out of hand particularly with a novice handler/rider.

They're super little cobs but as has been said, can be too sharp for a novice, and too punchy often in their action, again something which can disarm a novice who may not want something with so much energy and impulsion! 

They can be strong, very strong, and their sheer energy and willpower might not always be the best thing for someone who is maybe more used to the plod at the local riding school or an armchair ride.

So no, I wouldn't recommend them for a novice. In the right hands they are fantastic, very loyal and great characters, but for a novice, nope!


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## lauraandjack (23 November 2011)

Very much depends on the individual horse!

Between owning and loaning I've had 4 D's over the years.  2 would be suitable for confident novices (i.e. those capable of firm handling, as all welshies will take the pee if given the opportunity........) and 2 that were not novice rides at all.

Jack is an absolute saint on the ground although he can be a bit jumpy (I think he's been given a good pasting in the past), however to ride he is not a novice ride at all, he'll do anything for me but that's after 4 years spent building a partnership, if someone else gets on him he goes like a crab!


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## Welshie Squisher (23 November 2011)

My favourite breed 

Some are wonderful and suited to novices, others are highly strung and oppinionated and would scare the hell out of a novice.
So like any breed, really depends on the individual horse.

Mine is a little cow, but I totally adore her and love her spark


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## youngfarmer (23 November 2011)

Should of said as well-my friends niece has learnt to ride on that welsh D too, and her mum who also has suffered a back injury and is now left with issues from it takes him cross country and he looks after her but will still mess around at times.


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## trendybraincell (23 November 2011)

As everyone has said, you can't generalise...mine is pretty much a saint, I would trust him with a total novice, although I probably wouldn't let a total novice on him!! Thats not to say he didn't almost send my trainer flying last week, or rear up and break the school fencing a few months ago! When the mood takes him he can be a SOB, but that tends to be when you push him out of his comfort zone


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## Cobiau Cymreig Wyllt (23 November 2011)

Oo I love a Welsh D thread-with-pix almost as much as I love the breed itself!  Loving seeing all your beautiful D's. 
I have 2 D's - one is an archetypal horror and the other isn't. They are half-brothers but had very different upbringings, which probably accounts for their differences.
20 years ago, I regularly rode a Welsh D in a private showjumping yard...this was before the likes of performance D's like Machno Carwyn and people used to laugh at him in the collecting-ring. They soon stopped when they saw how he could jump. And in the stable he was the most mannerly human-orientated lovey-dovey horse of them all. But for the things he was scared by..ie clipping...he was a nightmare. And I wasn't massively experienced then but he was fine for me to ride...
So I think it depends on the individual D - and the individual novice!
For me, the reason why lots of people find D's difficult is the reason why I love them.
Yes, they are opinionated, downright stubborn even/know their own mind...
Yes they are super-sharp/extra sensitive....
Yes they are a pain in the backside at times because they are usually pretty bright....
They're not everyone's cup of tea - but they're certainly my 'paned o de!!'

Here are my lovely boys:

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/album.php?albumid=2418
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/album.php?albumid=2243


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## Cobiau Cymreig Wyllt (23 November 2011)

Lolo said:



			I think if they are well brought up then then they can be dreams, but our experiences has taught us that if they aren't they really can use those massive shoulders to do a lot of barging!

Henry was only 14hh, superb jumping pony (literally unstoppable, he'd ping round 1.10m courses like they weren't there!), but he was also a handful. He had to be lead everywhere in a bridle or a chifney, because he was prone to charging off to get his own way. Al used to climb in and out of his stable because he'd barge out otherwise- if she was doing anything with him he had to be tied up. Ridden, he was very strong, and did try to get his own way all the time- he was ridden in a cheltenham gag but she also wore spurs and carried a whip, because he was strong but also a bit of an arse!

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=488915

That's him. All our other horses have been good on the ground, but he just knew how much he could get away with due to having got away with it! Astonishing pony though, took my sister from doing PC 2'9/ 3' classes to pinging round 1.10m ODEs, despite having done less than her!
		
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Just checked out Henry's thread - what a dude! Typical D, love it...great pictures...would imagine he is distantly related to one of my boys...v similar markings and my boy is showing all the signs of being keen for a jump..gulp!


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## SillyFilly (23 November 2011)

My D would honestly make mince-meat of a novice (or anyone she could dominate to be fair). I have no problems with her on the ground, we get on great....but I'm under no illusions and she has to be kept 'in-line' so to speak....

What makes it more difficult, is she looks like butter wouldnt melt.....












And I wouldnt change a thing..


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## Merry Crisis (23 November 2011)

What are they going to do............... trot off with you?


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## kelly_s1 (23 November 2011)

I own a Welsh Section D cross hackney, owned him nearly 2 years

He is a very cheeky chappy, can be sharp, on the odd occasion rears when excited, but he is brilliant to hack, jump, lead in/out from the the field, to clip, box, with the vet and I would not be without him, he makes me laugh every day, he does random things 

















It depends the horse, one could be perfect for a novice, the other may not. But they are known for their cheeky ways


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## welshied (23 November 2011)

Think it depends on the individual IMO but from experience i have ridden more welsh d's that wouldn't be suitable for a novice then what would be. I currently have a 4 year old had him since a yearling and i think a novice would stop on him for about 5 mins, he isn't very forgiving, has one hell of a buck and bolt in him and won't be made to do anything he doesn't want to. But when out hacking he is completely different and really safe because he likes doing that i hope we eventually meet a steady medium lol


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## palomino698 (23 November 2011)

I would say they are absolutely not for novices - but then, it is going to depend on the pony and the rider.

An educated, confident, relaxed older D, one with a generally affectionate and gentle nature, sensibly fed, worked and handled, may well continue to be polite with an inexperienced rider, but for how long?  They are highly intelligent, very strong characters, and have more than their share of give-an-inch-it'll-take-a-mile attitude.

They can react unexpectedly to things another pony would tolerate - never, never shout at a D unless you understand how long you will spend regretting it!  

To have a novice rider buy a Welsh D for their first horse, especially a young one, is courting disaster and misery, probably ending up with a rider scared to get on the animal and a clever pony getting more and more upset at its handler's inexperience and incompetence.  A nervous pony becomes a bolshy pony in a quite different way from an arrogant one that is just plain rude.  They are - in my expericence - not especially forgiving.

Having said this, I don't think ANY novice rider should be left to educate a young (under 9) horse of any breed.


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## Lolo (23 November 2011)

Merry Crisis said:



			What are they going to do............... trot off with you? 

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Henry never really trotted anywhere. His favourite thing to do was gallop wildly. Or stamp on you/ smear you against the stable wall. He was a darling!


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## superted1989 (23 November 2011)

I had a secD when I was 14 and he almost put me off the Welshies for life.  Way too much horse for me, clever as a box of monkeys and quite intimidating.  He was my second equine and I just couldn't cope 
A friend of mine had 2 Uplands bred Ds, they were very calm and docile.  We have one of the last Uplands on our yard now.  She's 25 and proper old fashioned, leg in each corner, the type that would be fine with a novice as long as she was fed regularly!
My old Ted totally restored my faith in Welshies, he could prance, snort and breathe fire like a proper Welsh dragon but he was the most faithful animal I have ever owned.  He was showring bred and had been used as a covering stallion until he was 8 but a total gentleman to handle.  He could spot weakness at 100 paces though and would run rings around anybody that allowed him to.
Penpontbren Superted, I miss him every day






Whether a D is suitable for a novice, or not, I think depends on the person and the horse.  The right combination can be wonderful


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## Syrah (23 November 2011)

Depends on the horse and the novice.

You can't label a whole breed of horse.  As with any breed there are the quiet, easy to handle type and the not so quiet, not so easy to handle type or something in between.

We've got 2 Welsh D's on our yard, both mares.  One is quiet to ride, easy to handle on the ground, suitable for a novice nervous or otherwise.  The other is quiet to ride, easy to handle on the ground..... most of the time!  Suitable for a novice, not suitable for anyone who isn't firm on the ground.


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## Chestnuttymare (23 November 2011)

only opened this to look at the pretty ponies  knew some of you couldn't help showing them off


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## FestiveBoomBoom (23 November 2011)

festnuttyfairy said:



			only opened this to look at the pretty ponies  knew some of you couldn't help showing them off 

Click to expand...

Well you know it would be rude not to (any excuse)!


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## soulfull (24 November 2011)

Everyone says you can't generalise a breed,  well there are ALWAYS exception to the rule BUT there are less exceptions to the rule with D's than there are with ANY other breed

I love them and have had several over the years.  However despite loving them AND having experience I avoided getting another one 




catkin said:



			Welsh Cobs and cobs are not the same though sometimes confused.

s an absolute delight but it would be very easy for her to go 'off the rails' with someone who didn't understand the breed and their quirks - novice or not.
		
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Echo this



FattyBoomBoom said:



			I think it definitely depends on the individual. I have a 5 yr old Welsh D and he is a total saint, anyones ride. However when we first moved to our current livery yard I had a few comments from fellow liveries about how he looked like he could be a tricky ride/handful (they came to this conclusion by just looking at him!) and nothing could be further from the truth! I am very lucky in that he is flashy but at the same time very safe and sane. I will try and put some pics up....
		
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My friend had one at 2yr old and kept saying this,  hmm I say wait until she is 6 then say the same    seems to be there 'kevin' year.  she did come moaning she was being VERY naughty 



minimex2 said:



			I wish i hadnt read this .  Im getting a new cob on Friday and very much looks like a welsh D, am im a novice.........

Another thing to worry about
		
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Be firm and consistent!!!  every step needs to be YOUR idea,  make sure you do regular handling exercises like move him over to the side, back up, walk towards you and STOP before he gets in your space.  You wouldn't believe just how much difference those few things can make


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## hobgoblin (24 November 2011)

I wouldn't describe myself as a novice but bought a d filly at 8 months backed at 3.5 rode it myself for 6 weeks then put my 11 yr old on her who's ridden her ever since hunted and did camp at 4 but she's definitely a take anywhere do anything pony , always sane and sensible 
I would describe her as completely suitable for a novice ( she's 8 now )


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## starbar (24 November 2011)

I would be another that errs on the side of not for novice.  I own a part bred section d (a little bit of something else in there but mostly section d)  He can be very sharp and opinionated, throws a mean buck and can be bolshy on the ground.  
However, on the other hand he is solid in traffic, has great brakes and will canter across open fields and not feel the need to race the others.  Which is lucky as he has a high knee action which means he is more prancy than speedy!


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## dollymix (24 November 2011)

FattyBoomBoom said:



			Well you know it would be rude not to (any excuse)!
		
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haha...just can't help it!!


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## Cobiau Cymreig Wyllt (24 November 2011)

superted1989 said:



			I had a secD when I was 14 and he almost put me off the Welshies for life.  Way too much horse for me, clever as a box of monkeys and quite intimidating.  He was my second equine and I just couldn't cope 
A friend of mine had 2 Uplands bred Ds, they were very calm and docile.  We have one of the last Uplands on our yard now.  She's 25 and proper old fashioned, leg in each corner, the type that would be fine with a novice as long as she was fed regularly!
My old Ted totally restored my faith in Welshies, he could prance, snort and breathe fire like a proper Welsh dragon but he was the most faithful animal I have ever owned.  He was showring bred and had been used as a covering stallion until he was 8 but a total gentleman to handle.  He could spot weakness at 100 paces though and would run rings around anybody that allowed him to.
Penpontbren Superted, I miss him every day






Whether a D is suitable for a novice, or not, I think depends on the person and the horse.  The right combination can be wonderful
		
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And what a smashing boy he looks - that's why we love 'em!


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## Cobiau Cymreig Wyllt (24 November 2011)

dollymix said:



			haha...just can't help it!!





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Gorgeous!


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## MyBoyChe (24 November 2011)

havent read through the whole thread but I would say, on the whole, def not for a novice.  They are far too clever/wilful/stubborn.  That said my friend has an elderly mare, who although still a little madam under saddle is as gentle as anything on the ground with her toddler, will stand and be brushed quite happily without any histrionics.


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## Megibo (24 November 2011)

It depends on the horse.

Mine is fine for a novice for one ride, any more and she'll start to take the micky  
She is quite sharp at times and you have to be very strict with her on the ground, give her an inch she'll take a mile! Lovely for me, but you really have to find one you can click with. I was a novice when i got her (shes my first pony) and she was completely unsuitable. It took me a year and a half of my confidence taking a beating and then eventually lessons with a fab teacher helped me and her to get that "click" and once we got that we never looked back. i love her to bits now and 6 years have passed but definitely not suitable as a novices horse-unless the owners were knowledgeable and the rider was novice with bags of confidence. e.g. a horsey parent buying one for a teenager. Welsh D's can be excellent teachers, mine taught me alot.


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## Megibo (24 November 2011)

SillyFilly said:








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she looks just like mine! beautiful


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## pigpony (24 November 2011)

You can't generalise, however with most welshies I'm affraid you can. 

Mines fantastic with me ... Anyone else not so much. He's sensitive, can take an instant dislike to people, and generally very sharp. 

At 19 he spent the day before a dressage outing rearing and spinning on a hack, at dressage the next day he pulled out a cracking test getting just over 70% in a novice. You can't be complacent with him. 

I wouldn't change him for the world, once you have a bond with a sec D you will never have a bond quite like it again.


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## SillyFilly (24 November 2011)

Thanks Tazhazzamoose......but aint that half the problem......they KNOW they're   
gorgeous.


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## Toffee44 (24 November 2011)

If confident novice then yes they will teach you horsemanship, how to ride and to sit up straight (the ones I have ridden, including my own, leaning forward = go go go )


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## bugbee717 (24 November 2011)

My OH colt is a dope on a rope, he is so chilled,  he is as chilled as my dumb blood, maybe we just get lucky with ours even the 2 sec d fillies we just got are chilled as well


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## jojo23 (25 November 2011)

My daughter was a Novice when we got our Sec D, she was having one lesson a week at the local riding school.  Our mare is absolutely brillant to handle and I would trust her 100% with anyone in any situation.  Under saddle she is forward going and pulls so can be hard work but when she spooks she doesn't go anywhere and would never bolt, buck etc. so it depends on how novice a novice you are talking.  In fact she adored my daughter and worked hard to please her.

I know they have a reputation for being bolshy and a bit argumentative but that is not my experience however I have a Sec A who is an absolute pig.

It depends on your ability and the individual horse.


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## Tinsel Trouble (25 November 2011)

Because I am a geek and want to join the boasting group, my Danny is the best pony in the whole wide world!! I can't work out how to put pics up but if I can you might be able to spot the dent in his forehead; caused by a hammer by a previous owner.
A typical Welsh D- you often want to make the dent deeper... he has a penchant for bucking (his tail has hit my face on occasion!), and he doesn't suffer fools- he's my best friend and I can't imagine life without him! !


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## dreamcometrue (25 November 2011)

I have recently bought a section D mare as my second horse.  I agree that they are not suitable for a novice.  You have to ride well or they will do their own thing.

I find that they are very quick to react, no warning signs.  They also get a bee in their bonnet about very tame things but will happily walk past a JCB.


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## spotty_pony (25 November 2011)

No - IME most of them tend to be sensitive and can be sharp. They need confident, experienced riders.


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## Fellewell (25 November 2011)

I've known two fairly experienced horse owners buy Sec D geldings and sell them on within a year and I've known one novice owner who bought a 4 year old Sec D mare as her first pony. The first time owner and her mare had an amazing relationship, it may have been breeding, but this girl/the owner was incredibly laid back and placid. Maybe that's what they need.


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## Pocket_Rocket (25 November 2011)

As others have said you can't really say whether a particular breed is or isn't suitable for a novice. However generally I think they are I've had 3 Section D's over the years that I shared and we've had a few on the yard all of which were suitable for novices. They were all very sensible in traffic, etc one was a bolter if you wanted to canter in company but on his own was fine. 

The main problem with Section D's is they can quickly become a nightmare in the wrong hands they need a firm hand. All 3 that I had would try to take the mick if they thought they could get away with it. They can pick up bad habits very quickly and easily as they are very intelligent (same as any horse really). You need to be firm handling and riding them and as long as you stick to that then I don't think you can go far wrong. It does of course depend on the individual you can get nightmare horses of any breed it's they way they've been handled/educated in the past. 

We have a young one on the yard at the moment and he really does try to push the boundaries. He will trot off ridden in the school and is very strong he is also quite naughty on the ground. Has to be led in a chifney otherwise he'll drag you to the field! He will try to barge you, spin around in his stable if he doesn't want his tack on, etc. But I don't think he's had a great past he's on loan to the girl that has him now but before that he was on loan for a few years and was pretty much neglected just left in a field. 

I certinaly wouldn't rule one out for a novice I know quite a few novices with Section D's as first horses and they get on really well but they are firm. Perhaps get something a little older like a 10-12 year old thats been there and done that and already has good manners?


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## Megibo (25 November 2011)

SillyFilly said:



			Thanks Tazhazzamoose......but aint that half the problem......they KNOW they're   
gorgeous. 

Click to expand...

never a truer word spoken 
mine likes a good pose...


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## Alfiem (25 November 2011)

My sec D is not your "typical" welsh cob. He is well mannered and friendly and doesn't really have hang ups as such. He is, however quite sensitive and therefore I wouldn't say he is a novice ride, he's excellent in traffic and I'd let a novice plod along with him on a hack, but schooling wise, give him and inch and he'll take the p!! He is very, very laid back and doesn't have typical D movement, which is why we get nowhere in M&M classes, but he does very well in dressage due to his lovely rhythmical paces. And is a superb versatile allrounder. In fact if it wasn't for his passport I'd question the fact that he is a Welsh D at all!! - he's the coarser, cart horse type.
I wouldn't swap him for one of those really fine, sharp ones though - they are not my cup of tea at all, I just like a plod around the countryside and my sharer loves dressage, and M suits the bill for both!!


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## NeverSayNever (3 December 2011)

have come back to this thread -  my Sec D Mare is a darling,as previously posted. Fun, forward going ride, but safe. 

Today I had a novice on her. Complete novice. Able to walk and trot and well balanced and quiet. I walked beside them to start with then said it would be ok to walk her to the end of the track and back - which is a dead end and totally enclosed, all of about 50 yards. They got to the end and my mare just took total advantage and took off back up towards us. The jockey was doing all the correct things and to their credit sat very well but the little madam had a look in her eye. We stopped her when she got to us and there was no harm done but its taught me that these ponies are very clever and WILL take advantage of a real novice rider.  In comparison, the same rider used to do the same on another horse of mine, a TBx who would never have dreamed of such a thing and plodded along like a RS pro.


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## Wundahorse (3 December 2011)

All the Welsh section D's i have known over the years are definitely not novice rides,or to handle.They can be very strong,sharp and with plenty of attitude.I have a D, who was my daughters pony,and she is not for novices,or anxious riders.She is lovely but sharp,and tends to absorb rider anxiety,which causes her to feel worried.She can be bargy too.I chose to keep her when my daughter grew to big and moved on to a WB.I did not really trust anyone to buy her,and handle her,fearing for her welfare if she got into the wrong hands,although there are plenty of people who could.I have a lovely girl who loans her at our yard,and sometimes i ride her,as I figured when my 27 year old Arab is retired,i will move on the my welshie.


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## Archiepoo (3 December 2011)

I think that they are theyre own worst enemy tbh mine is what my grandad used to call a dishonest horse-you never know whats in his mind or how hes going to behave one day to the next!  to anyone who says cobs are plods for novices -i dare you to ride my boy! in my opinion if you can ride a native you can ride anything!!!!


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## indie999 (3 December 2011)

Yes and No

How can you categorise, I know many people including myself who have them. Just depends on what has happened to them etc just like any other horse for sale.

If you are buying the essential is the horse or pony does what you need it to do and has brakes. Take someone experienced. Famous last words as I am still looking. 

Loved my section D lives out 24/7, hardy, good size etc. I was very lucky. But I think to find any good horse has an element of luck just depends what us humans have done to it.

When I got mine someone said oh they are really stubborn.........no different to other horses???


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