# supervising new born litters?



## elsielouise (5 November 2011)

Hi

Just looking to see what experienced breeders do in relation to overnight supervision of new litters? 

My JRT whelped easily this morning, has been nursing th pups (4 - see labour day thread) and has eaten and drunk herself as well as been checked over by my vet friend. 

I have three vet friends all of whom have said she would be fine to leave overnight but - none of them have bred their own litters and um.. without questionning anyone's personal judgement I am just wondering if indeed there is a need to check them through the night?

It is bonfire night of course and the bitch usually gets very stressed by this and I have read the firsy 18 hours are important to ensure all whelps are drinking and although I have been up since 3am checking on the bitch I am prepared to pull another all nighter if indeed there is a need to do so. 

MY gut feeling is a pup could get cold so - OH gone to get a heat pad. or a pup could get squashed so OH made some pig guards or a pup could fail to get to milk bar so um.. that's where I'd come in.

This is the first litter I've been responsible for at home and I want to do the best for them all so - what would you do?

My plan would be to go to bed when my OH gets back from having taken our DS out for the day the get him to wake me when he comes to bed later and I'll check on her through the rest of the night.

Am I being over cautious?


----------



## Oenoke (5 November 2011)

I wouldn't leave them especially as it's fireworks night.  I've bred 1 litter and had a bed on the floor beside the whelping box, so I would wake if there was any noise.  I had 4 Border Collie pups and mum was very good with them, she stayed in the whelping box with them the 1st 2 weeks (only coming out for toilet breaks), after that she went in to feed them, but otherwise stayed out, she fed them until they were just over 6 weeks.  I have friends that breed and they won't leave mum and pups unattended (24-7) for the 1st 2 weeks.


----------



## MurphysMinder (5 November 2011)

Normally I would say leave her in peace with her pups , and just check a couple of times in the night.  I have a baby listener which I connect up, so I can hear if the bitch is fussing, or a pup squeaking.  However as it is fireworks night it might be sensible to stay with her, just try not to fuss her or the pups too much, bitches do like time to bond with their pups.  Yes you do need a heat lamp or pad, and pig rails in the whelping box, just make sure it isn't too warm or the bitch may move away from the pups.


----------



## SusieT (5 November 2011)

Normally I would say leave her to it, however as you say she gets very stressed with fireworks night (probably not a good time to whelp her in hindisght?) I would be keeping a very close eye in case she gets so stressed she harms the pups. After tonight I'd leave her sort herself out, possibly with baby listener but nature knows best, assuming she is appearing to be a good mum and feeding pups well.


----------



## Cinnamontoast (5 November 2011)

Stay with her. She stresses at fireworks, she may well stress lots more with puppies. Plus it's good to check that pups are suckling, mum doesn't lie on them, none of them are fading etc. Most breeders I've read about seem to stay in the same room and not sleep for days!


----------



## elsielouise (6 November 2011)

2am La la la la .... nothing on telly la la la...

OH just gone to bed and woke me up. Mother just been out for a wee. All puppies weighed, named and currently feeding. We have a baby monitor and we'll use that in the next few weeks but neither me or OH could stand to leave her for her first night (funnily enough OH managed to get some sleep in the night I had my son LOL!

We did wonder about whelping her knowing she'd have pups near bonfire night BUT with vets advice on her age for first litter (she's 4); wanting only one litter then she'll be spayed; me not working at the moment but might be by the time her next season comes; the stud dog owner wanting a pup now but not next time and the fact we cancelled our bonfire party and nearest neighbour is half a mile away meant we decided it was a bit now or never. 

Is it too early for breakfast.....?


----------



## echodomino (6 November 2011)

If the fireworks have stopped by tonight she'll be ok to leave over night. You've got a heat pad/lamp so they'll stay warm enough and you've got pig rails so reduced the chance of getting squashed. 

We've always left mum alone with pups when we think they've finished - have sometimes come back down in the morning and found an extra one


----------



## Alec Swan (6 November 2011)

elsielouise said:



			.......
Am I being over cautious?
		
Click to expand...

I think that perhaps you are,  though I understand your concern.  Now that the worst of the firework displays are over and done with,  I would keep interference to an absolute minimum.

Apart from the initial check,  shortly after birth,  I don't handle puppies again until the bitch is truly settled into a routine,  often at about 10 days,  or thereabouts.  Many bitches,  especially maidens,  find the constant picking up and putting down of their puppies stressful.  

Others wont agree with me,  I'm sure,  but the best approach is to give her peace and quiet,  and to leave her to her own devices.  Give her time to bond with her puppies,  and time for her to settle.  She'll become fed up with them soon enough!!  Good luck!

Alec.


----------



## MurphysMinder (6 November 2011)

^^^  This makes me feel much better Alec, I was beginning to think I was an uncaring breeder as I have always kept contact with pups to a minimum for the first few days, I weigh at birth and then not for a week unless I am concerned that a pup isn't gaining as it should.  To me the best guide to knowing you have a healthy litter is your ears, there should rarely be a sound from pups except that lovely contented puppy "mumbling".

OP, once you have had some sleep, can we have some pics please.


----------



## elsielouise (7 November 2011)

Quick update, we left them to it last night, they are at the bottom of the stairs so easy to hear and mum is being fantastic. All have gained weight after initial few grammes loss and mum is eating and drinking well. 

So far a text book litter-  after all my planning in case of complications. Didn't need any of it. Let's hope it stays that way. Wouldn't do it any other way though. Never knowingly out prepared!!


----------



## Alec Swan (7 November 2011)

elsielouise,

well done!  I well remember my first litter of puppies.  They laid there,  for days it seemed,  like fat little sausages.  I kept prodding them to make sure that they were still alive!! 

I've always thought that the biggest and strongest puppies,  will bulldoze their way through to the milk.  The smallest have to use guile,  and that's why I generally pick the smallest puppy (barring genuine runts),  as I've always felt that using their brains from an early age may be an early learned asset.  Don't know to be honest,  but it does seem that the biggest and strongest puppies rarely seem to be the brightest,  when it come to work!!

Alec.


----------



## elsielouise (8 November 2011)

@Alec

Funny you should mention that, the smallest pup is certainly the one that seems quickest to the milk bar. He's also the one mum really watches carefully when we weigh them. almost as if she knows he is a bit more vulnerable though by no means a runt.

She is doing so well still. She will leave them alone for no more than five mins or so at a time and goes back in when they squeak (which I assume is normal and she will just increase the time away from them as they grow?).

They are still really hamster like so will post some more pics as they grow a bit.

Oh one questtion though - She is eating well though fussily (won't eat usual food but will eat only certain brands of the puppy stuff). Would you experienced people leave her food or tempt her a bit more? Bit worried about creating a fussy eater longer term though obviously she needs to eat.


----------



## Alec Swan (8 November 2011)

elsielouise said:



			@Alec.... He's also the one mum really watches carefully when we weigh them.

Oh one questtion though - She is eating well though fussily (won't eat usual food but will eat only certain brands of the puppy stuff). Would you experienced people leave her food or tempt her a bit more? Bit worried about creating a fussy eater longer term though obviously she needs to eat.
		
Click to expand...

"He's" the one for you to keep!   In a few days,  hold the bitch on her bed,  and get someone else to lay the puppies out,  a metre or so away.  The first puppy carried back to the bed,  is called "The bitches pick".  It would be interesting to hear if he's the one.

As yet,  her milk supply isn't really under demand.  It will be.  2-4 weeks is when they will start to pull the bitch down a bit.  She isn't really being tested yet,  she will be.  At 4 weeks,  she'll eat a dirty dish cloth,  and will be ravenous.  That's when she'll need your help. 

Alec.


----------



## elsielouise (8 November 2011)

Thanks ever so much for that. As I've said this is the first (and probably only) time I'll ever do this and I am keen to get everything right. Although as I've said I do have a very good vet friend I see practically every day nothing is more useful than people who are actually experienced with working with litters and I know my friend hasn't bred her own.

I will def try the litter thing. We certainly are keeping one if not two and want to keep the one(s) that will best fit in the pack (we have two greyhounds too!)

Watch this space


----------

