# Shod or barefoot?



## Sheep (14 November 2011)

What is the split between shod / partially shod / barefoot horses here? Just interested to see.


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## tasteofchristmaschaos (14 November 2011)

My boy is barefoot over winter, fronts on in summer.


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## ThePony (14 November 2011)

gosh, you're brave!!

I vote barefoot (with the provisio that the owner is able to sort exercise and diet out - often when you're stuck on a livery yard then sorting out a grass free grazing area if needed for your horse to be comfortable can be utterly impossible!).
Both ours are barefoot year round, heaps of hacking, dressage for one and dressage/sj for the other.  They manage brilliantly, though it has been a year of hard work working out what suits them and getting their diet sorted out. Been worth the stress though!


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## BillyBob-Sleigh (14 November 2011)

my boy will be barefoot from Monday as I won't be able to ride until the new year and then thinking of trying him with just the fronts


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## *hic* (14 November 2011)

Impossible for me to answer as you only allow for one horse and my seven are shod or not dependent upon type of work and condition of feet.


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## JustKickOn (14 November 2011)

Shod on all four, all year round.


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## Cluck (14 November 2011)

Both are barefoot and sound over all terrain all year round. Kept on dry paddocks with in/out stalls 24/7, with access to limited grass, no grain and no mud.


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## Jesstickle (14 November 2011)

Both mine are unshod (hate the word barefoot!) because neither have ever shown any need for shoes but they'd have them if they were required


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## Sheep (14 November 2011)

jemima_too said:



			Impossible for me to answer as you only allow for one horse and my seven are shod or not dependent upon type of work and condition of feet.
		
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Yeah I know I'm a bit thick, I meant to include that, then got sidetracked by potatoes.


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## tallyho! (14 November 2011)

Mine is unshod or barefoot whatever you like to call it at the moment.


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## Enfys (14 November 2011)

Barefoot as opposed to just not shod? 

I have a certified farrier to _trim_ my horses, I haven't encountered a 'barefoot trimmer' here that I would let within 10 feet of my horses (a two week course does _not_ cut it in my opinion) The question of barefoot or not never arose in the UK as my horses were always shod. 

There are over 20 horses on my yard, one of them is shod when she is working (she does breakaway and heeling) another does exactly the same job but doesn't have shoes.

Not one of the others has ever been shod (oldest is a 22 year old) most are retired/ youngsters, or brood mares, no problems with any of them, the ones that work have no problems with our going. 

I have just worked out that my farriers bill for all the ridable horses would be over $1100 every visit (without tax)


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## Meowy Catkin (14 November 2011)

All barefoot/unshod at the moment.

2 are youngsters
1 is retired
1 is on field rest


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## Sheep (14 November 2011)

Enfys said:



			Barefoot as opposed to just not shod?
		
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Good point, for the sake of the poll consider the two to be the same (please nobody take offence to that!).

I actually am quite dumb for not including a 4th sometimes shod sometimes not / some are some aren't option- as my first loan horse was shod, the second wasn't, but in the case of the second I guess it was more 'just not shod' than barefoot.. don't think he'd ever had shoes on. To me I suppose barefoot implies going from being shod. Ah well, sorry guys!


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## karsl rowan (14 November 2011)

All my ponies are unshod. I do lots of road work and never had a problem with them going foot sore. 
It saves me sooo much money too! £15 a trim or £65 a set of shoes!


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## Hippona (14 November 2011)

I clicked barefoot ....but I too hate that word....they are in fact- un-shod.

Un-shod is cheaper than 'barefoot' .....


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## MagicMelon (14 November 2011)

I have 2 ponies permanently barefoot (as in properly trimmed by a barefoot trimmer, not just unshod).  My competition horse is unshod now over the winter (normally shod through eventing / outdoor season) and a friends horse I have currently is fully shod.  Personally I would keep everything barefoot or unshod if I could.  I only shoe if I have to (ie. competing on grass and need studs).

There is a difference between barefoot and unshod.  Unshod is simply a farrier trimming the hoof in preparation for a shoe (but just not sticking one on!).  The trim is very different to a barefoot trim. Hate people slagging off barefoot, there are some fantastic trimmers out there and after having one of my ponies shod all his life (on advise of the farrier), he'd have numerous problems (2 absesses a year always, bruised soles etc.), after we went barefoot about 5 years ago the difference has been amazing and (fingers crossed!) not one absess since!


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## Cluck (14 November 2011)

Why the dislike of the term 'barefoot'? Is it because it's associated with 'barefoot trimming' as opposed to a farrier trim?


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## charlimouse (14 November 2011)

Mine are shod all round


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## tallyho! (14 November 2011)

Cluck said:



			Why the dislike of the term 'barefoot'? Is it because it's associated with 'barefoot trimming' as opposed to a farrier trim?
		
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No idea but it's a hotly contested issue! Best not to get involved... call it what you want.


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## siennamum (14 November 2011)

On our yard we have 4 shod and 5 barefoot. V conventional yard too.

ISH - My youngster sometimes shod, currently not
ISH - my mare always shod
cob x - shod
native pony - shod
riding pony - shod
sec B - never been shod
young pony - never shod
haflinger - never shod
aged pony - unshod


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## StormyMoments (14 November 2011)

moo never had shoes as she is 2 and taz has just gone shoeless 2 weeks ago as its cheaper and tazs feet could do with improving


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## Native Speaker (14 November 2011)

My lad is unshod over the winter, with fronts on from spring to autumn.


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## Cluck (14 November 2011)

tallyho! said:



			No idea but it's a hotly contested issue! Best not to get involved... call it what you want.
		
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Thanks for the advice  

In the US I don't come across the term unshod very much, in fact most people wouldn't understand the word that's why I asked.

There is such a big difference between most farrier/pasture trims and barefoot performance trimming that it probably is important to distinguish between the two in some way.


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## learningcurve (14 November 2011)

2 have always been unshod.
2 had fronts when I bought them, now both unshod.
Our new horse is shod all round. I will keep her like this for a while as I don't want to make any changes until my daughter and her have established a ridden partnership. 
Will propably try backs off in a few months, if successful fronts will be next.


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## misst (14 November 2011)

Old pony - unshod used to be shod when working hard, had fronts on whilst hacking a lot but once semi retired hacked out unshod with no problems. She is arab x connie. 

3yo TBx unshod and never been shod. Will stay that way for as long as possible but will probably end up shod as he will hopefully do some competing in a couple of years. 

Both trimmed by my farrier who is lovely


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## tallyho! (14 November 2011)

Cluck said:



			Thanks for the advice  

In the US I don't come across the term unshod very much, in fact most people wouldn't understand the word that's why I asked.

There is such a big difference between most farrier/pasture trims and barefoot performance trimming that it probably is important to distinguish between the two in some way.
		
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Absolutely, I agree with you cluck!

We do need to distinguish the differences and goodness knows we've tried, but in England, there seems to be a positive hatred towards performance trimmers with many people happy with a farrier trim. As long as horse is "performing" then there isn't a problem... is there?

There are a few here who know the difference but choose to keep the peace.


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## Megibo (14 November 2011)

mine is UNSHOD  year round but we'll be doing more hacking soon and if she finds it hard on her feet then she will have fronts on


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## CambridgeParamour (14 November 2011)

1 is shod all round, all year round. 
3 are barefoot, although Kaiser will be shod for a few months a year for studs (So is Macey when competing). Macey's come off late Sept- early May, and i'm hoping Kaiser will be able to do the same


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## Cluck (14 November 2011)

tallyho! said:



			Absolutely, I agree with you cluck!

We do need to distinguish the differences and goodness knows we've tried, but in England, there seems to be a positive hatred towards performance trimmers with many people happy with a farrier trim. As long as horse is "performing" then there isn't a problem... is there?

There are a few here who know the difference but choose to keep the peace.
		
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 I know what you mean.


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## suzi (14 November 2011)

jemima_too said:



			Impossible for me to answer as you only allow for one horse and my seven are shod or not dependent upon type of work and condition of feet.
		
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Ditto, but I've only got 6 not 7 and it also depends on time of year as one is fronts only in winter then shod all round with stud holes for jumping on grass in the summer.


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## sunshine19 (14 November 2011)

My three have never had shoes on. Two owned from birth and one bought as a 10yo. All have great feet and have never shown the need for shoes.


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## abitodd (14 November 2011)

I ride my KWPN on roads and stoney tracks 6 days a week in summer,2 or 3 in winter(Yes I am a wuss!) He has never had shoes,so 4 years of work unshod. I also have a 18 month old AppyxKnab,she will never have shoes.
I am also very lucky in having a farrier who specialises in barefoot horses.


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## milesjess (14 November 2011)

Unshod prob all winter. He's currently out of work. When he's comes back into work I'll see how he goes... Might return to 2 fronts but he has good feet so I'll see how he copes without any.

Met my first critic the other day too who questioned why he was unshod... Hmm because he's MY horse!


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## xRobyn (14 November 2011)

Phil is unshod, has been since the day he was born - if he needed shoes I wouldn't hesitate to have them put on him though.


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## Trot_On_Dressage (14 November 2011)

Shod and all year round


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## fidleyspromise (14 November 2011)

I didn't vote as I have one with full set of shoes and also one barefoot.


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## Oberon (15 November 2011)

Two horses happily barefoot. One was shod for 13 years previously and the other has always been barefoot.

If either of them needed shoes, I wouldn't hesitate to find what was wrong with my management of them and correct it.


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## stacy181 (15 November 2011)

SHOD all year round! i don't belive in all this barefoot is best rubbish!!!!!!!!!!
I'm sorry but if u have a horse/pony that is ridden once, twice or everyday needs 2 have some protection in there hoofs no matter what u do with them!


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## LauraWheeler (15 November 2011)

stacy181 said:



			SHOD all year round! i don't belive in all this barefoot is best rubbish!!!!!!!!!!
I'm sorry but if u have a horse/pony that is ridden once, twice or everyday needs 2 have some protection in there hoofs no matter what u do with them!

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Thats abit harsh  I also don't believe in this barefoot is best. I believe in what is best for the indervidule horse or pony.

Herbie is unshod. (I'm lothed to use the term barefoot anymore due to the extreame reaction it gets) I hack him out, school him, compeat him and hunt him and he copes just fine  He's a forest bred forester and we live in the new forest so it's all natural to him. We wouldn't be able to get shoes on him anyway. He was shod infront when I bought him. The shoes were put in very badly and when my farrier went to shoe him we found out why.  I was hanging off one side of him, one farrier was hanging off the other side and the other farrier was hanging off his foot  He was dangourous and we had to give up. (My farriers bred persharons (SP  ) and delt with foals bigger than Herbs but even they said it wasn't worth the fight  ) I now have a girl farrier who Herbie loves  but as he is coping fine barefoot so we have desided not to rock the boat and put shoes on. 

Merryn is shod in front. He has been unshod all his life but just before he was given to me he got Laminitas. He was lame the first 4 months I had him due to getting 3 foot abcesses in a row  After he got the third we desided the only way to stop them was to put shoes on him and he has been sound ever since.


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## tallyho! (15 November 2011)

I too loathe the discrimination in here about the term "barefoot". There is no need, each to their own. As long individual horses are happy whatever goes on beneath the feet, why the downright snobbish behaviour by some members? Doesn't anyone else find it embarrassing?

If someone believes they have a barefoot horse, who is anyone to say that is wrong? It's up to that individual.

If you think it is correct to call a Masai warrior shoeless then great, fine. But he calls himself barefoot. You can't go and tell him he is wrong can you?


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## ILuvCowparsely (15 November 2011)

hard for me to vote



 my donkey is barefoot
 as is my pony  
 my gelding is also  ( might eventually have fronts )

 my mare is normally shod all round but now in heart bar shoes in front( only )
 in fact only 3 liveries are shod all round , they are either shod in front only  or barefoot  here is our ratio



3    shod all round
6  are barefoot
1 shod in front only ( normal )
1 front only heart  ( bar shoes)


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## ILuvCowparsely (15 November 2011)

stacy181 said:



			SHOD all year round! i don't belive in all this barefoot is best rubbish!!!!!!!!!!
I'm sorry but if u have a horse/pony that is ridden once, twice or everyday needs 2 have some protection in there hoofs no matter what u do with them!

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 must be a child with spelling like that 

absolute  and utter TOSH!

 my mare was NEVER shod till 6  as her feet hard and healthy ( till her lami )

 my gelding 10 years    as all but 6 weeks never been shod  he wears old macs hacking . NEVER  had shoes on behind 

 Horses were born without shoes! They cross rugged terrain in America and other countries perfectly happy .   Its only us humans who put circular metal shoes on.

 My pony goes out ride and lead once a week BAREFOOT   she has brilliant  feet .  Shoes can help some horses , but shoes can hinder horses feet too period!!!!

 If your horses feet are hard- in good condition - get reg farrier / barefoot trimmer  carting for them    what the hell is the problem???

 One more thing  the term Barefoot  are we not barefoot when we take our boots / shoes off

 I don't mind the word   bare as in naked foot as ion hoof I see no probs  its better than the french word  * pieds nus  *
 or spanish  word *con los pies desnudos

 i like the czech word for barefoot * Bosý *  lol


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## MerrySherryRider (15 November 2011)

Didn't vote because I have both unshod and shod with just fronts on. All in full work. I shoe according to need and then prefer to use fronts only if they can manage with that. 
I only use a fully trained farrier, wouldn't let a barefoot trimmer near any of them. 
 A trim costs £20.  Not quite sure why barefoot trimmers around here, charge £65 with a fraction of the training and less overheads ?
 Even my physio with years of training charges less than that for her time and expertise.


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## Oberon (15 November 2011)

£65? Going rate is £35!


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## ILuvCowparsely (15 November 2011)

depends on the barefoot trimmer   they dont just trim they give a full spectrum of your horses feet  inc photos.

 If your horse has a hoof problem ( caused by a farrier)  then i want  a specialist foot trimmer on the case.
 something i  found

*With the proper barefoot trim horses can actually live longer, healthier lives.  A great many problems that appear to be from aging (stiffness, arthritis, grumpiness, etc.) are actually caused by poor hoof health - be it due to shoeing, poor trimming, or neglect.  Conditions such as Navicular are not only curable by going barefoot, but will most likely not even occur if the barefoot lifestyle is started early.

Not only the horse's health is affected - the following is a partial list of the benefits of barefoot:


There is less chance of missing out on a ride or competition due to shoe loss.  There are no shoes to lose!

Injuries from kicks (to horses and people) are much less severe when horses are not wearing shoes.  Think of shoes as brass knuckles.

Horses have better traction (especially on concrete and asphalt) without shoes on.

What goes on inside the hoof during motion is important to the circulation of blood in the horse.  It has been proven that shoes reduce that circulation.  A natural barefoot horse has warm legs (the same temperature as the rest of the body).  A shod horse will have cold legs.  A clear sign of impaired circulation.*


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## MerrySherryRider (15 November 2011)

Oberon said:



			£65? Going rate is £35!
		
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Yes, I thought it was expensive but the two people I know who use (different) trimmers, both pay £65 and that was the price a couple of years ago.


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## EstherYoung (15 November 2011)

Difficult to vote. Each individual horse of ours gets what it needs on its feet at any particular time depending on its workload. Currently none have anything on their feet, but then it's winter and they're all field ornaments barring the odd bareback poddle. During the summer Spud had Easyboot Glue-ons as they suit him better than metal shoes, and H had Easyboot Gloves for the odd occasion when we did want to go a bit further (he's semi retired).

There are so many different varieties of shoe (both metal and plastic) and pad available nowadays, and boots have come on so much that they are now a valid alternative to shoes for many horses, that it's no longer a question of 'barefoot or shod'. The question is far more complicated than that.


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## amandap (15 November 2011)

stacy181 said:



			SHOD all year round! i don't belive in all this barefoot is best rubbish!!!!!!!!!!
I'm sorry but if u have a horse/pony that is ridden once, twice or everyday needs 2 have some protection in there hoofs no matter what u do with them!

Click to expand...

http://www.performancebarefoot.co.uk/barefoothorsesinperformance.html

Mine are all barefoot but three are minis. 

[youtube]KD7G_LKlt0w[/youtube]


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## MagicMelon (15 November 2011)

stacy181 said:



			SHOD all year round! i don't belive in all this barefoot is best rubbish!!!!!!!!!!
I'm sorry but if u have a horse/pony that is ridden once, twice or everyday needs 2 have some protection in there hoofs no matter what u do with them!

Click to expand...

Ignorant rubbish. I cant believe you think a horse NEEDS shoes if ridden.  Where do you get this pure rubbish from?  Some horses may need shoes if they have bad, crumbly feet but in most cases I believe a horse should NOT be shod unless absolutely necessary.  Nailing on metal to the hoof is so outdated IMO, the concussion they cause cannot be good for the horses leg and I believe can contribute to navicular (would love to see any stats on this?). I didnt shoe my last horse until he was 6 yrs old, as the first 2 yrs of his ridden life he simply didnt need them. Only when he began slipping when jumping on grass as I went up the levels did I feel he needed the grip.  Otherwise, his hooves were in super condition.  My current competition horse is shod through the eventing season then unshod from end October until about March because he competes on a surface. At home he is ridden on grass. His hooves look fantastic throughout the winter and having them off even reduces his windgalls.


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## AimeeandRuby (15 November 2011)

my little mare is barefoot and is a stone cruncher. 
She had a real big improvement in the way she worked after the first couple of months. She now loves hacking out on the road, going on fun rides and jumping in the menage and in the field. She doesnt slip anywhere when being ridden and she jumps to a halt on the fun rides. 
If i get another horse i will definately go barefoot!!


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## sakura (15 November 2011)

my mare is shod in front, her back feet are great but the front just need that extra support

the gelding I used to have was shod on all 4, it's very individual


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## bumblelion (15 November 2011)

TB-shod on all four, all year
ID-unshod, all year


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## Janah (15 November 2011)

I have recently taken my boys shoes off, he is 20 so I am taking things very slowly.  He gets walked out in hand on the roads.  I am hoping over time I can hack out 5 days a week with him, we shall see.

Jane


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## debsg (15 November 2011)

My girls are both barefoot. Jasmine (5yrs TBx) has never had shoes, has feet like granite and is 100% sound on all surfaces. Blaze (12yrs, Irish cob) has been barefoot for 3 years in April, and had shoes for 3 years previous to that. She has deviations in both hinds (wears the inside edges down faster) due to a congenital malformation of her hind legs, which gives her no problems (she just wiggles her bum like Marilyn Monroe!) and she has been 100% sound on all surfaces. Both horses hack regularly (Blaze for 7+hrs) and Blaze competes in SJ and XC up to 1m, in fact at a wet show this summer she was one of a few horses that didn't slip and the ONLY one barefoot, and she is very forward going!
I have a barefoot trimmer, both live out 24/7/365 unless the weather is truly dreadful (we have no shelter)
I am not rabidly pro-barefoot. All I can say is it works for us xx.


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## Faro (15 November 2011)

1. Has no shoes - advanced level endurance horse
2. Has no shoes - open level endurance horse
3. Has no shoes - dressage and happy hack
4. Has no shoes - retired 30 yo broodmare
5. Has no shoes - currently barren broodmare

(But I only voted the once!)


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## cptrayes (15 November 2011)

I am not unshod when I get out of bed in the morning. I am barefoot.

My hunter is not unshod when he goes hunting. He is barefoot.

Simple really, can't see why people make such a fuss


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## Cluck (15 November 2011)

Unshod = shoes taken off, bottom of foot levelled off by a farrier 

Barefoot = no shoes, minimal and non-invasive trim which maintains the natural shape of a horse's foot, retaining callus, frog and quarter scoop (as it develops).

Is this the kind of distinction everyone is referring to?


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## JFTDWS (15 November 2011)

jesstickle said:



			Both mine are unshod (hate the word barefoot!) because neither have ever shown any need for shoes but they'd have them if they were required 

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Damn it, that's what I was going to say!

I regularly have conversations with my vet (who i swear has the shortest memory imaginable, since he once asked me this the same q three times during one set of x-rays ) which go like this:

Vet: "Do you believe shoeing is evil?"

Me:  "WTF, no, I believe shoeing is unnecessarily expensive when my horses have hooves like nails and don't need studs"

Vet:  "Ahh so would you ever shoe them?"

Me:  "The other horse (outside waiting for jabs) is fully shod"

Vet:  "I just wondered how this one chipped his radius from a kick if they're not shod"

Me:  "Seriously, go look at the lumps of metal on the hairy beasts feet? " 

Vet: "So you're not one of these barefooty natural obsessive types then?"

Me: "Seriously, have you listened to a word I've said this evening?"

He's a great vet, but sometimes I want to smack his head of my horse's shod hooves


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## Clava (15 November 2011)

Mine are all barefoot (except when booted occasionally ), a Tb ,a haflinger and a shetland x pony.

I'm very curious that the vote appears to show more barefoot horses I would have expected it to show more shod as I'm sure there are more shod horses in work than barefoot / unshod ones. Are the shod population just not bothering or interested enough to vote? Or have things really started to change?


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## Cluck (15 November 2011)

Clava said:



			Mine are all barefoot (except when booted occasionally ), a Tb ,a haflinger and a shetland x pony.

I'm very curious that the vote appears to show more barefoot horses I would have expected it to show more shod as I'm sure there are more shod horses in work than barefoot / unshod ones. Are the shod population just not bothering or interested enough to vote? Or have things really started to change?
		
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Interesting question. Here in the US the 'barefoot/natural movement' is becoming more and more popular. So much so that local farriers are getting anxious and defensive .... very weird to see it happening.


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## JFTDWS (15 November 2011)

Clava said:



			I'm very curious that the vote appears to show more barefoot horses I would have expected it to show more shod as I'm sure there are more shod horses in work than barefoot / unshod ones. Are the shod population just not bothering or interested enough to vote? Or have things really started to change?
		
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Threads like these tend to inspire more contributions from the "new school of thought people" than "old school of thought people" whether they're about shoes, feeding or any other topic, in my experience.  I would imagine that people have a tendancy toward evangelicism when they believe they are acting in the interests of the horse (e.g. because they believe shoeing is evil or unnecessary), while people who believe shoeing is a necessity and had always been fine before will be more inclined to ignore threads like this...

I bet someone objects to the above, but since mine are all unshod but I also believe shoeing can be necessary, I would like to point out that I am offering a reasonably unbiased opinion (in so far as that I'm not overtly in either camp) on a generalisation of why thread polls may skew results


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## CorvusCorax (15 November 2011)

But when you put shoes on, you are shod, are you not? 
My car is 'well shod' when it has new tyres on. 
They're just words....


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## siennamum (15 November 2011)

I also think that there have always been a lot of horses and ponies who have never been shod, people keep assuming that barefoot is new. 2 of the never been shod animals on my yard are in their mid teens.


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## JFTDWS (15 November 2011)

siennamum said:



			I also think that there have always been a lot of horses and ponies who have never been shod, people keep assuming that barefoot is new. 2 of the never been shod animals on my yard are in their mid teens.
		
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Quite right - there is a distinction between people who don't shoe - which is reasonably traditional for natives and such and not at all uncommon in older horses.  I think the terminology "barefoot" is more associated with the "new order" though, tying into ideas about biomechanics and shoeing being actively bad (as opposed to just unnecessary).

While barefoot accurately describes my horses' situations, I prefer unshod as barefoot for me is associated with the more evangelical proponents of such management styles


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## Changes (15 November 2011)

I think the poll would be far more relevant if it had specified horses in full work, ( a couple of gentle hacks a week would be an unlikely scenario to need shoes, IMO) as presumably that's the area where the opinions differ? I don't know many shod field ornaments, youngstock, aged ponies or pets.


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## rosie fronfelen (15 November 2011)

MagicMelon said:



			Ignorant rubbish. I cant believe you think a horse NEEDS shoes if ridden.  Where do you get this pure rubbish from?  Some horses may need shoes if they have bad, crumbly feet but in most cases I believe a horse should NOT be shod unless absolutely necessary.  Nailing on metal to the hoof is so outdated IMO, the concussion they cause cannot be good for the horses leg and I believe can contribute to navicular (would love to see any stats on this?). I didnt shoe my last horse until he was 6 yrs old, as the first 2 yrs of his ridden life he simply didnt need them. Only when he began slipping when jumping on grass as I went up the levels did I feel he needed the grip.  Otherwise, his hooves were in super condition.  My current competition horse is shod through the eventing season then unshod from end October until about March because he competes on a surface. At home he is ridden on grass. His hooves look fantastic throughout the winter and having them off even reduces his windgalls.
		
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ahem,its not ignorant rubbish,very insulting comment in my mind,all our horses are shod,thats the way it is,everyone is entitledto their own opinion onthis contentious issue.


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## cptrayes (15 November 2011)

Changes said:



			I think the poll would be far more relevant if it had specified horses in full work, ( a couple of gentle hacks a week would be an unlikely scenario to need shoes, IMO) as presumably that's the area where the opinions differ? I don't know many shod field ornaments, youngstock, aged ponies or pets.
		
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I don't think so! I think most of the posters on here have horses in full work without shoes, like mine. It is a complete myth that fully working horses need shoes. Except in cases of metabolic disease preventing the horse from growing strong feet, it is, in the experience of a huge number of owners of barefoot horses, the owner/horse/livery/exercise/feed combination that causes a horse to need shoes to do this kind of work (and all the roadwork to fitten it and keep it fit):

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-EuL6xpZs-q4/TqCNep9gtKI/AAAAAAAAAxM/K6BUGQ9p5ZA/s1600/radar+hedge.jpg


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## Changes (15 November 2011)

cptrayes said:



			I don't think so! I think most of the posters on here have horses in full work without shoes, like mine. It is a complete myth that fully working horses need shoes. Except in cases of metabolic disease preventing the horse from growing strong feet, it is, in the experience of a huge number of owners of barefoot horses, the owner/horse/livery/exercise/feed combination that causes a horse to need shoes to do this kind of work (and all the roadwork to fitten it and keep it fit):

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-EuL6xpZs-q4/TqCNep9gtKI/AAAAAAAAAxM/K6BUGQ9p5ZA/s1600/radar+hedge.jpg

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Have you read the replies on here? Because a fair proportion of those saying barefoot mention aged, youngsters etc.
And you do trot out that one photo regularly - I could just as easily trot out photos of shod horses doing exactly the same.


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## cptrayes (15 November 2011)

CaveCanem said:



			But when you put shoes on, you are shod, are you not? 
My car is 'well shod' when it has new tyres on. 
They're just words....
		
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But when I take them off I am not shoeless or unshod, I am barefoot, or in my stockinged feet.

The term "shoeless" implies that shoeing is the natural order of things and that being without shoes is a temporary state of affairs. For barefooters, the reverse is true.

I don't care if other people want to call their horses shoeless but I am baffled that they have so much of a problem with me calling mine barefoot.

In the original True Grit the heroine says "you'd better put some shoes on it, I ain't riding no barefoot pony. It's not new!


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## cptrayes (15 November 2011)

Changes said:



			Have you read the replies on here? Because a fair proportion of those saying barefoot mention aged, youngsters etc.
And you do trot out that one photo regularly - I could just as easily trot out photos of shod horses doing exactly the same.
		
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What's your point? It isn't special for a horse to jump or hunt with shoes on. I keep posting that picture because people keep telling me it can't be done and I do it (admittedly not over hedges that big!) with one horse after another.

Have you read the number of responses saying things like "endurance horse"?


ps I am very proud of that horse and that photo, but if you want to see pictures of nine other horses of all shapes and sizes jumping substantial obstacles with no shoes on then please let me know and I'll show you more, starting with this one - check out the stone landing.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_IaGqwoQlnmA/SKsocTYAR_I/AAAAAAAAAVA/4v352TzUOb8/s1600-h/george080110-3.jpg

or this one BE affiliated Novice, horse jumped clear time after time.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-IO2w1qcWIwo/TfYrPl8UWvI/AAAAAAAAAsk/Q__lUdp5Uj8/s1600/Scooby+Jump.jpg


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## JFTDWS (15 November 2011)

My cob does TREC and plays horseball unshod and I've shown, dressaged and jumped my highland unshod.  The highland is schooled and hacked every day without needing shoes.  I wouldn't claim that was full work, but it's more work than with a veteran or youngster.

I would imagine people competing in fields likely to need studs might arguably claim that shoeing is a necessity (having never competed at such a level, I couldn't comment).  But that's not necessarily the same thing as full or reasonable levels of work, is it?


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## Changes (15 November 2011)

@ cptrayes - my point is you continually bang on (and on and on and on ) about how clever 'you' are with your horses. 

Do you really think you are some kind of genius, and the rest of the world who compete at top level know nothing, and are waiting for whatever light bulb knowledge you claim to have to hit them?

Your regimes to keep your horses sound without shoes are very restrictive, and quite pointless, IMO, except to prove the point that you can do it. You have said to other people if they are not prepared to keep their horses in a certain manner then barefoot is not for them. 

I don't like your regimes, I wouldn't do that to my horses.


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## *hic* (15 November 2011)

Leviathan said:



*must be a child with spelling like that *

absolute  and utter TOSH!

 my mare was NEVER shod till 6  as her feet hard and healthy ( till her lami )

 my gelding 10 years    as all but 6 weeks never been shod  he wears old macs hacking . NEVER  had shoes on behind 

 Horses were born without shoes! They cross rugged terrain in America and other countries perfectly happy .   Its only us humans who put circular metal shoes on.

 My pony goes out ride and lead once a week BAREFOOT   she has brilliant  feet .  Shoes can help some horses , but shoes can hinder horses feet too period!!!!

 If your horses feet are hard- in good condition - get reg farrier / barefoot trimmer  carting for them    what the hell is the problem???

 One more thing  the term Barefoot  are we not barefoot when we take our boots / shoes off

 I don't mind the word   bare as in naked foot as ion hoof I see no probs  its better than the french word  * pieds nus  *
 or spanish  word *con los pies desnudos

 i like the czech word for barefoot * Bosý *  lol

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FPMSL - talk about the pot calling the kettle black! As for your attempts at punctuation ROFLMAO


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## cptrayes (15 November 2011)

Changes said:



			@ cptrayes - my point is you continually bang on (and on and on and on ) about how clever 'you' are with your horses. 

Do you really think you are some kind of genius, and the rest of the world who compete at top level know nothing, and are waiting for whatever light bulb knowledge you claim to have to hit them?

Your regimes to keep your horses sound without shoes are very restrictive, and quite pointless, IMO, except to prove the point that you can do it. You have said to other people if they are not prepared to keep their horses in a certain manner then barefoot is not for them. 

I don't like your regimes, I wouldn't do that to my horses.
		
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NO Changes, you know full well that in previous arguments with you I have stated that I am NOT clever, what I do is NOT clever and that's what makes it even more ridiculous when people insist that horses in hard work need shoes.

You do not know my regime and yet you say it is restrictive. So I will tell you. I have three horses in work. In the winter they are out from 9.30 to 7pm except for when I am riding. Overnight they live together in a fully bedded barn 90 feet  by 36 feet with ad lib haylage. They are fed additional pony cubes as required to maintain their weight. In summer they are in that barn between around 10am and 6pm which they find a welcome relief from the flies and lie down and sleep. 

Restrictive? I don't think so.  "I wouldn't do that to my horses" - well more fool you then.

I do agree with you, if a person cannot keep their horse from being footie because of the way they are forced to keep them (in a stable with too little movement, or in mud all winter, for examples) then they should shoe. And now you criticise me for that too?



ps if you do not like my continuing to point out that what other people say can't be done can indeed be done, (or as you call it "banging on")  please please PLEASE use the ignore button so that you never have to read what I write ever again. Other people are interested, and while that is the case I will not be stopping writing, however much you would like me to.


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## tallyho! (15 November 2011)

JFTD said:



			My cob does TREC and plays horseball unshod

I would imagine people competing in fields likely to need studs might arguably claim that shoeing is a necessity
		
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Yes well I think I can understand why people think you'd need studs and actually I worried when I did a few ht's but we were ok. I can't explain how but we slipped much less than we used to... came 3rd so wasn't too bad. Haven't got pics from photographers yet so can't show but will!

I can confidently say he is a barefoot performance horse. (I'm entitled to my view on this as you are on 'unshod' so lets just be friends)

He can even drive barefoot


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## tallyho! (15 November 2011)

What IS the matter with *Changes*??




			ps if you do not like my continuing to point out that what other people say can't be done can indeed be done, please please PLEASE use the ignore button so that you never have to read what I write ever again. Other people are interested, and while that is the case I will not be stopping writing, however much you would like me to.
		
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Exactly...


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## spotty_pony (15 November 2011)

Mine is shod all round.


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## Changes (15 November 2011)

cptrayes said:



			NO Changes, you know full well that in previous arguments with you I have stated that I am NOT clever, what I do is NOT clever and that's what makes it even more ridiculous when people insist that horses in hard work need shoes.

You do not know my regime and yet you say it is restrictive. So I will tell you. I have three horses in work. In the winter they are out from 9.30 to 7pm except for when I am riding. Overnight they live together in a fully bedded barn 90 feet  by 36 feet with ad lib haylage. They are fed additional pony cubes as required to maintain their weight. In summer they are in that barn between around 10am and 6pm which they find a welcome relief from the flies and lie down and sleep. 

Restrictive? I don't think so.  "I wouldn't do that to my horses" - well more fool you then.

I do agree with you, if a person cannot keep their horse from being footie because of the way they are forced to keep them (in a stable with too little movement, or in mud all winter, for examples) then they should shoe. And now you criticise me for that too?



ps if you do not like my continuing to point out that what other people say can't be done can indeed be done, (or as you call it "banging on")  please please PLEASE use the ignore button so that you never have to read what I write ever again. Other people are interested, and while that is the case I will not be stopping writing, however much you would like me to.
		
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Can I point out that you initially quoted me and were adamant that my suggestion simply for a change to the poll, nothing more, was unnecessary? 
As below -



			Quote:
Originally Posted by Changes View Post
*I think the poll would be far more relevant if it had specified horses in full work, ( a couple of gentle hacks a week would be an unlikely scenario to need shoes, IMO) as presumably that's the area where the opinions differ? I don't know many shod field ornaments, youngstock, aged ponies or pets.*

_I don't think so! I think most of the posters on here have horses in full work without shoes, like mine. It is a complete myth that fully working horses need shoes. Except in cases of metabolic disease preventing the horse from growing strong feet, it is, in the experience of a huge number of owners of barefoot horses, the owner/horse/livery/exercise/feed combination that causes a horse to need shoes to do this kind of work (and all the roadwork to fitten it and keep it fit):

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-EuL6xpZs-q...adar+hedge.jpg_

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So yes, off you went banging on again. That may be your current regime, but it wasn't when the grass was richer. 

Can I suggest you take your own advice and use the ignore button, as you began this particular confrontation.


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## MerrySherryRider (15 November 2011)

Cluck said:



			Unshod = shoes taken off, bottom of foot levelled off by a farrier 

Barefoot = no shoes, minimal and non-invasive trim which maintains the natural shape of a horse's foot, retaining callus, frog and quarter scoop (as it develops).

Is this the kind of distinction everyone is referring to? 

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For me, nope. Unshod is my term of preference to describe my horses who are not shod. I use a farrier who trims my horses to keep them sound enough to be in full work doing everything my shod horses do.
Barefoot was always used to describe horses who were not shod but has more recently now become associated with the Barefoot movement. Thats why I choose to avoid the term. Personal choice.



Cluck said:



			Interesting question. Here in the US the 'barefoot/natural movement' is becoming more and more popular. So much so that local farriers are getting anxious and defensive .... very weird to see it happening.
		
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I don't think farriers are running scared here yet. Its still hard in some areas to get taken on by the farrier of your choice.
 Incidently, I was surprised a couple of weeks ago to learn that no one on my yard had ever heard of Barefoot trimmers. On my previous yard, 18 months ago, out of 60 + horses , only two (Parelli) owners used a barefoot trimmer. Neither owner actually rode their horse.


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## Changes (15 November 2011)

tallyho! said:



			What IS the matter with *Changes*??
		
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I disagree with cptrayes, Tallyho. That seems to be a problem for you?

I could return that and ask what the matter is with you? You seem to leap to jump on me everytime I engage with cptryes about barefoot, without you actually doing more than being snipey. 

At least cptrayes is arguing a case.


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## cptrayes (15 November 2011)

Changes said:



			Can I point out that you initially quoted me and were adamant that my suggestion simply for a change to the poll, nothing more, was unnecessary? 
As below -


So yes, off you went banging on again. That may be your current regime, but it wasn't when the grass was richer. 

Can I suggest you take your own advice and use the ignore button, as you began this particular confrontation. 

Click to expand...

It has been my regime for the last six years, ever since my horses went barefoot.

The only exception to that is a metabolically challenged rehab horse who cannot tolerate grass whether in shoes or not. He was in my care for 5 months in 2010.  His options are to be restricted from eating grass or be put to sleep. Do you think he would prefer the latter?

I will not be putting you on ignore. I do not mind reading your provocative nonsense. If I read it I can correct incorrect statements that you make about horses needing shoes. You also write it partly to get a response from me and on a windy wet winter evening, I am happy to oblige you


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## Meowy Catkin (15 November 2011)

Overnight they live together in a fully bedded barn 90 feet by 36 feet with ad lib haylage.
		
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I wish that I had a barn like that available if I ever needed it, as my TB hates being stabled, but I think that she would cope with being in a bigger space with her friends much better.


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## cptrayes (15 November 2011)

Faracat said:



			I wish that I had a barn like that available if I ever needed it, as my TB hates being stabled, but I think that she would cope with being in a bigger space with her friends much better.
		
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I took a huge risk buying a house no-one else wanted, but I  know that I am extremely lucky and every day I thank my parents for their genetic "legacy" and the good luck that has come my way. I hope that when you are my age (I assume you are younger than me, most people on internet forums are!) you can end up in a similar place. I fear that my generation has robbed most of you of that chance with their financial policies and resource wastage 

ps I still LOVE your cat. If you can no longer afford to feed him please let me know 

pps there are drawbacks. I spend a lot of time with a hot iron and carpet joining tape mending torn rugs where the boys have been "playing" overnight!


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## Meowy Catkin (15 November 2011)

ps I still LOVE your cat. If you can no longer afford to feed him please let me know
		
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Thank you.  He 'helped' me do the horses tonight. 

PS, he costs ALOT to feed as he eats _so_ much. He must transport his food to an alternative dimention because he is very slim. (He's healthy and regularly wormed.)


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## PoniesRock (15 November 2011)

My new forest pony is shod all round, all year  Costs me  a small fortune but she needs to be shod for the work that she does.


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## Holly Hocks (15 November 2011)

stacy181 said:



			SHOD all year round! i don't belive in all this barefoot is best rubbish!!!!!!!!!!
I'm sorry but if u have a horse/pony that is ridden once, twice or everyday needs 2 have some protection in there hoofs no matter what u do with them!

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Troll or misinformed?


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## Sheep (15 November 2011)

Holly Hocks said:



			Troll or misinformed?
		
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Probably a bit of both or somewhere in the middle


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## tallyho! (15 November 2011)

Holly Hocks said:



			Troll or misinformed?
		
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Either way, very funny!


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## abitodd (15 November 2011)

I think the term _*barefoot*_ can be misleading. 
It automatically makes us think of walking barefoot over stones,rocks,gritty bits with our pathectic, pink feet.
A horse without metal shoes is not the same thing. 
A horse which has been shod since 2 might have feet like cheap synthetic boots and will feel the stones and gritty bits,but not anything like our pink feet would.
A horse which has never been shod might have feet like Doc Martins,but still feel the stones because the Doc Martins are alive and attached to the sensitive structures of the foot which can become inflamed through unsuitable diet or metabolic issues.
A wisely fed,working horse will have feet like........well,we humans have yet to invent a material equivalent to the horses hoof.......so the only word to decribe them is........hooves!


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## JFTDWS (15 November 2011)

tallyho! said:



			Yes well I think I can understand why people think you'd need studs and actually I worried when I did a few ht's but we were ok. I can't explain how but we slipped much less than we used to... came 3rd so wasn't too bad.
		
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I've ht-ed the cob locally up to aboutt 90cm unshod and I've xc schooled the highland without shoes, I was thinking about the higher levels of BE where you risk more mud on the course during the day's competition etc, and sj-ing on grass, where studs could be beneficial.  But that's not something I'd know about...


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## cptrayes (15 November 2011)

SarahandDee said:



			My new forest pony is shod all round, all year  Costs me  a small fortune but she needs to be shod for the work that she does.
		
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Unlikely to be true S&D, sorry    The truth is more likely to be that you cannot provide her with turnout without excess green stuff.  An NF pony ought to be able to do any amount of roads and tracks without shoes on. If you cannot provide her with what she needs to do that work without shoes that is not a problem, but equally it is nothing to do with the work that she does, because plenty of ponies like her are doing the same work without shoes. If may take just a small tweak of her management to allow you to drastically reduce the cost of keeping her. If you get short of money at any time, do consider it, we will be happy to help you work out how to make it work for you both.


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## Fii (15 November 2011)

LauraWheeler said:



			Thats abit harsh  I also don't believe in this barefoot is best. I believe in what is best for the indervidule horse or pony.

Herbie is unshod. (I'm lothed to use the term barefoot anymore due to the extreame reaction it gets) I hack him out, school him, compeat him and hunt him and he copes just fine  He's a forest bred forester and we live in the new forest so it's all natural to him. We wouldn't be able to get shoes on him anyway. He was shod infront when I bought him. The shoes were put in very badly and when my farrier went to shoe him we found out why.  I was hanging off one side of him, one farrier was hanging off the other side and the other farrier was hanging off his foot  He was dangourous and we had to give up. (My farriers bred persharons (SP  ) and delt with foals bigger than Herbs but even they said it wasn't worth the fight  ) I now have a girl farrier who Herbie loves  but as he is coping fine barefoot so we have desided not to rock the boat and put shoes on. )
		
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 Out of interest Laura, was that Robert Sampsom you had as a farrier?


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## Teeni (15 November 2011)

Barefoot, never been shod

Though i would shoe if she needed it


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## CorvusCorax (15 November 2011)

cptrayes said:



			But when I take them off I am not shoeless or unshod, I am barefoot, or in my stockinged feet.

The term "shoeless" implies that shoeing is the natural order of things and that being without shoes is a temporary state of affairs. For barefooters, the reverse is true.

I don't care if other people want to call their horses shoeless but I am baffled that they have so much of a problem with me calling mine barefoot.

In the original True Grit the heroine says "you'd better put some shoes on it, I ain't riding no barefoot pony. It's not new!
		
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You say potato, etc etc etc - agree though, it doesn't mean either of us is wrong!


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## Marydoll (15 November 2011)

2 retired, barefoot, see farrier not a bft every 6-8 weeks, if they need a trim they get it, one TB shod all round, im not sure id like to try her barefoot/unshod tbh, shes a bit to princessy


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## welshcob* (15 November 2011)

Just fronts for my girl


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## tazzle (15 November 2011)

hhhhmmmmmmmmm  blimming english language and its definitions /associations  ..... causes soooooo many problems 

I really do not care whether they are "barefoot" or "unshod" ( does it realy matter  ) and I dont follow trends /fashion ( buck them more like  ).... but I took Taz's shoes off as soon as we could get her cooperation to do so  and she has not had metal on her feet since .   I just dont see the point in putting anything on a horse it does not need . (So that is about 11 years.) In that time we have done low level endurance and lots of driving ( getting fit enough to do driving trials) on the roads so has been "in work" on all sorts of surfaces.

B's previous owners had tried to take her shoes off apparently and it failed..... but we had a go and she has not had shoes on in 8 years... she is not as rock crunching but she was a lot older ( now 20). She is never lame / footie she just tends to avoid gravel ...... but then again she avoids puddles too so not sure I can be certain that it causes her any real discomfort 


I wonder why there has been a perception that any extreme regime is required ..... apart from a transition period to let a previously shod horse get used to being without the rest is just good general and feet health management


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## tallyho! (16 November 2011)

CaveCanem said:



			You say potato, etc etc etc - agree though, it doesn't mean either of us is wrong!
		
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No it doesn't per se.. however, I do think *barefoot* describes a certain type of trimming and ethos specifically for performance where the intention is to manage and work the horse normally without the need for shoes based on scientific research by quite a few vets, farriers, nutritionists and scientists the world over.

Whereas I think *unshod*, also a valid term, describes more a horse who has had shoes removed with no specific trimming for a period of time with the intention of putting shoes back on at some point.

So even though you are not wrong, the definitions are clear and I think NEED to be made as Cluck says. So to a certain extent it is tomayyto/tomarrto if people don't know the subtle differences but it is worth knowing what the differences are.


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## tallyho! (16 November 2011)

tazzle said:



			hhhhmmmmmmmmm  blimming english language and its definitions /associations  ..... causes soooooo many problems 

I wonder why there has been a perception that any extreme regime is required ..... apart from a transition period to let a previously shod horse get used to being without the rest is just good general and feet health management 

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This is the perception I want to quell.

There is no extreme regime!!!! You are absolutely right about health and management tazzle. However, the health and management in the UK in general is not ideal for performing barefoot nor is it set up for it. Our pasture is for harvesting milk and meat. It is too rich for most horses. You cannot deny that the UK has the highest prevalence of equine obesity, cushings, laminitis, EMS and other metabolic disorders. Shoeing is perceived to save the horses hoof from deteriorating in our wet claggy climate where footrot in sheep & cattle is a major problem. This is NORMAL???!!!!! No THIS is extreme.

A paradigm shift is taking place in the UK and I am glad you think it's easy peasy common sense stuff as it has taken a long time for many modern owners to realise ponies can't be kept like cows. 

All the research and dedication invested into laminitis, cushings, navicular, and other painful manifestations of current husbandry has led to developments which is now thought to be common sense as tazzle demonstrates. Maybe we should have just asked her before we gave the vet, who is a very very clever person, our money to cure our laminitic horses with crazy shoeing and drugs which gave them ulcers and abcesses, which holed them up in a stable for 6 months no moving.

Should have just unshod him...


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## MagicMelon (16 November 2011)

rosiefronfelen said:



			ahem,its not ignorant rubbish,very insulting comment in my mind,all our horses are shod,thats the way it is,everyone is entitledto their own opinion onthis contentious issue.
		
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How is that insulting? stacy181 commented that barefoot is "rubbish".  She clearly has absolutely no idea about barefoot so that by dictionary terms constitutes ignorance.  You cant make an informed comment about something without knowing something about the subject.  She then goes on to STATE that "if u have a horse/pony that is ridden once, twice or everyday needs 2 have some protection in there hoofs no matter what u do with them!" - yet again, total uninformed myth.  She's not saying "I believe that..." she's saying it as if its a fact which it clearly isn't.  This comment is extremely ignorant to the point of being very unbelievable.  There's absolutely nothing wrong with people shoeing - the fact that yours are shod is fine by me.  I have mine shod over the eventing season too so I'm not dead against it.  What I don't believe in is people automatically shoeing because clueless people like stacy181 come along and tell them they HAVE to shoe their horse.  I have had all 3 - shod, unshod and barefoot so although I dont know everything about these methods by any means, at least I have experience with them enough to give my opinion.


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## amandap (16 November 2011)

Ah, extreme regimes. Well I have all my lot on what many would think of as an extreme regime. I don't do it because I've been told to or because it's a fashion either despite what others may think. 
I have one laminitic, two who were overweight and one who developed severely flat hooves and cracks on turn out last winter. Since they have been yarded (in a very lage yard surrounding my buildings) the cracks have healed with only three proper trims, the two have lost weight and coincidentally their hooves have improved and one who is prone to irritability with other horses is as chilled as can be.
I have started limited turn out again for some and I shall see how they get on. 

Of course I could ignore these responses to no grass and soaked hay and find some other explanation, I could shoe but I choose not to because I believe it would only cause more problems in the longer term. I have been concerned about their mental health but have not seen deterioration in their mental health or signs that they are 'depressed' and anyone reading who assumes they MUST be will have to take my word for it.  In fact I think they are more content now based on their interaction amongst themselves and willingness to do stuff with and for me.
I constantly ask myself if I'm doing the right thing but I've come to the conclusion that they are better now and that my grass is capable of causing them serious problems in general and if I wanted to take them anywhere that isn't grass. 

I have been accused directly and indirectly of following trends and 'gurus', being closed minded and blind many, many times over many subjects on various forums but I learn all I can and listen to my horses and act on that as best as I can.

I also see the term barefoot as meaning an holistic approach as opposed to unshod which to me means no shoes and often no work. I do know many don't see a difference, fair enough.

Mta. I suppose my regime is like 24/7 stabling but with room to move and interact in a herd as well as access to varied surfaces, trees, shrubs, shelter etc.


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## Changes (16 November 2011)

cptrayes said:



			I will not be putting you on ignore. I do not mind reading your provocative nonsense. If I read it I can correct incorrect statements that you make about horses needing shoes. You also write it partly to get a response from me and on a windy wet winter evening, I am happy to oblige you 

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I repeat - you quoted me initially. So I suggest that you're the one looking for a response from me. You suggest ignore  - I return the compliment.

As for your arrogance that I write to get a response from you - seriously, what kind of ego issues do you have? My initial post was a response to the poll, nothing more, yet you pick up on my quote and turn it into another disagreement. 

I think your arrogance and determination to spread the word that your methods are the only way forward is frightening. I've been at a lot of world class events the last few years - all their horses were shod, all hundreds and hundreds of them. Are you egotistical enough to believe that you are right and they are wrong?

If horses can be kept sound and happy without shoes, then fine. If they need shoes then fine. But barring a few, MOST horses in serious competitive work need shoes.


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## Changes (16 November 2011)

amandap said:



			Ah, extreme regimes. Well I have all my lot on what many would think of as an extreme regime. I don't do it because I've been told to or because it's a fashion either despite what others may think. 
I have one laminitic, two who were overweight and one who developed severely flat hooves and cracks on turn out last winter. Since they have been yarded (in a very lage yard surrounding my buildings) the cracks have healed with only three proper trims, the two have lost weight and coincidentally their hooves have improved and one who is prone to irritability with other horses is as chilled as can be.
		
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Restriction for health issue (over weight and laminitic - how did that happen - did you buy them like that?) is not the same as restriction to indulge a methodology to prove a point.


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## amandap (16 November 2011)

Changes said:



			Restriction for health issue (over weight and laminitic - how did that happen - did you buy them like that?) is not the same as restriction to indulge a methodology to prove a point.
		
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No I didn't buy them like that, they became like that since moving to Ireland. It's a long, long story but involved trips back and forth to England, horses with a friend for a year, sick relatives and importantly taking my eye off the ball. 
Actually, I did 'buy' the one with cracks like that but they healed a few years ago. One was overweight too. Mini shetland developed her first bout of laminitis with a friend and I let the other two get overweight (one again) and cracks develop again. 
I'm not afraid to share my shame or that I'm far from perfect but I have learned. You can add restrictive regime to the list of my short comings all you want but if I turn them/some out I am worried that same would happen again and I'm not risking it here. 

It is easy to make the assumption restriction is done to pay homage to a methodology but if you knew individual circumstances you would most often find reasons. I find people are quick to judge and assume you are a fanatic rather than someone learning to listen to their horses and try and respond to their needs. Horses and circumstances are individual.


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## Janette (16 November 2011)

Star's shoes came off 3 years ago.
Previously, her feet were contracted, thrushy and boxy.  The clefts were so closed that they were difficult to pick out.  The final straw was when she got maggots in her heels.  The farrier wanted me to put all sorts of treatments on her feet when really they needed to be kept clean and 'aired'
They seemed to 'ping' open about 3 weeks after the shoes came off.  The thrush cleared up, the infections disappeared and now I can pick her feet out with no foul smell.

The shoes were removed by the farrier who left her toes long.  These she knocked off herself, demonstrating a lovely 'mustang roll'  LOL   Because of this, I started using a barefoot trimmer and her feet have never looked back.  They are fully open and healthy. 

She hacks on roads and tracks.  I compete her showing and dressage.

It's £35 every 6 weeks for a trim.  

Too many pluses in that equation for me.

I didn't follow a 'regime', just used my common sense.  Road work, grass over stony tracks, gradually building up the range of surfaces which we rode over.  Now, she is a 'stone cruncher' (love that term  )


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## siennamum (16 November 2011)

I am a fan of leaving horses barefoot if at all possible. Logic dictates that it is the most healthy option. BUT I do dispute that a berefoot regime is as easy as people claim, or that it is without it's own issues.

My horses live on the side of a hill which has never been fertilised, ploughed, weedkillered etc, etc. It is stony and weedy, and I think fantastic pasture for horses. They spend all their time going up and down hill, foraging, playing and snoozing. The field has some mud, but unfortunately, the horses feet are at this time of the year, wet or damp all the time. I wouldn't bring them in onto yards because of the wonderful lifestyle they have in the field.

This week my youngster can't cope without shoes because his feet are too worn down and tender. He goes a couple of months barefoot and then he starts opting to go on the verge on hacks and I know he is sore. This tenderness relates directly to how short his hooves are.

He is having his shoes back on on Friday so his work is uninterrupted this Winter. He is not fat, gets hay and grass, and the grass is minimal now. I am sure that he could be barefoot if I changed his regime, transitioned him and bought some boots. I don't want to tho. I want him to work properly not learn to take short cautious strides, I want him in the field as much as possible, and I want to go where I want when I want without worrying about whether it will be sore for him.

I think it's important to have balance, and shoes are a great and proven way of allowing me to do all the above.


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## Changes (16 November 2011)

amandap said:



			Horses and circumstances are individual.
		
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Exactly. Which is why neither shoeing nor barefoot should be force fed on the internet.


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## ThePony (16 November 2011)

Oberon said:



			Two horses happily barefoot. One was shod for 13 years previously and the other has always been barefoot.

If either of them needed shoes, I wouldn't hesitate to find what was wrong with my management of them and correct it.
		
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Most sensible reply I have read, and yet it has somehow been glossed over in the hubbub!  

An important aspect being that if the horse was sore then it's management would need to be tweaked to result in ideal management for a healthy horse - this would be the same management regardless of what you do/don't do to your horses feet! It is just fortunate that those without shoes show problems much more quickly, the owners can then attend to the issue before it escalates.


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## ThePony (16 November 2011)

Changes said:



			Exactly. Which is why neither shoeing nor barefoot should be force fed on the internet.
		
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I don't think either are, but on a thread with this title you can fairly expect to find a good deal of discussion on it though!


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## a kind of magic (16 November 2011)

Mine are all shoe-less and fancy free!   All farrier trims.

They all cope very well despite a few hiccups on the previously shod ones (we had him shod up to 19 but now he is happily un-shod) I was spurred on by the 3 who have never had shoes and had on the whole, much better hoof health.


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## cptrayes (16 November 2011)

Changes said:



			I think your arrogance and determination to spread the word that your methods are the only way forward is frightening.
		
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Have you ever actually read this post that I wrote over a year ago Changes, when you accuse me of saying my methods are the only way forward, and frightening?

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=405124




Changes said:



			I've been at a lot of world class events the last few years - all their horses were shod, all hundreds and hundreds of them. Are you egotistical enough to believe that you are right and they are wrong?
		
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Yes. I can't remember who said it, but "progress is made by unreasonable people". 

You accused me, wrongly, of giving my horses a harmful regime, but plenty of dressage horses at top level would not be able to go barefoot in spite of only ever working on perfect surfaces because they are so valuable that they are never allowed out and get no movement or conditioning. Do I think those world class riders are wrong to keep their horses that way, resulting in them needing shoes? Too right, am I arrogant enough to believe that they are wrong and I am right. 




Changes said:



			If horses can be kept sound and happy without shoes, then fine. If they need shoes then fine.
		
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And this is exactly what I say myself, as you will see if you follow the link above.



Changes said:



			But barring a few, MOST horses in serious competitive work need shoes.
		
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I do not believe that you are correct. My opinion is that eventers and showjumpers need shoes if they require studs. No dressage horse would need shoes if it was fed correctly and worked appropriately and I think you will find that more and more extreme shoes are being fitted to articially "improve" the horses' gaits. Personally I would rather see the horse with the best natural paces win.

The rest of shoeing is because we originally shod to allow horses which would otherwise be lame to be fed high grain diets, be on restricted or intermittent exercise, and stand in ammonia in stables, all of which weakens the feet. That was necessary when horses were machines, it is not necessary now. We have just become so accustomed to seeing horses with shoes on that we cease to question it. 

Tell me, when did it become routine to shoe cobs and ponies? If certainly wasn't when I was a child. Why is it now?  Did those cobs and ponies suddenly start to "need" shoes in the past 50 years? No, it was party a fashion, to follow the "grown-ups" and partly because we started to treat ponies and cobs like hard working horses, feeding them grain and keeping them stabled.

There are now four barefoot horses regularly hunting with my drag hunt, sometimes six. There are more and more affiliated barefoot eventers and long distance competitive riders. The cat is out of the bag, the word is spreading - most horses can do just as well, often better, without shoes than with them; the received wisdom that horses in hard work need shoes is a myth.


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## amandap (16 November 2011)

ThePony said:



			Most sensible reply I have read, and yet it has somehow been glossed over in the hubbub!  

An important aspect being that if the horse was sore then it's management would need to be tweaked to result in ideal management for a healthy horse - this would be the same management regardless of what you do/don't do to your horses feet! It is just fortunate that those without shoes show problems much more quickly, the owners can then attend to the issue before it escalates.
		
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I agree and changing management greatly is where I've seen the biggest changes and for the better. 
I'm ambivalent about shoes tbh but do worry that they are used to get over management problems for the horse and in the long term the horse may still be struggling and we just aren't aware until a breakdown. Incidentally, break down and last resort is how many people come to the 'barefoot' thinking in the first place.

In all this there is the problem of grass and hay/haylage in different areas and yards, some horses seem to do well and others struggle. I want to know why rather than just shoe. My horses have generally struggled since I moved over here but I've also learned much more and see/notice much more that I used to be oblivious to.


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## Janah (16 November 2011)

I am amazed  at the number of barefoot horses on here!!!


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## tazzle (16 November 2011)

tallyho! said:



			This is the perception I want to quell.

There is no extreme regime!!!! You are absolutely right about health and management tazzle. However, the health and management in the UK in general is not ideal for performing barefoot nor is it set up for it. Our pasture is for harvesting milk and meat. It is too rich for most horses. You cannot deny that the UK has the highest prevalence of equine obesity, cushings, laminitis, EMS and other metabolic disorders. Shoeing is perceived to save the horses hoof from deteriorating in our wet claggy climate where footrot in sheep & cattle is a major problem. This is NORMAL???!!!!! No THIS is extreme.

A paradigm shift is taking place in the UK and I am glad you think it's easy peasy common sense stuff as it has taken a long time for many modern owners to realise ponies can't be kept like cows. 

All the research and dedication invested into laminitis, cushings, navicular, and other painful manifestations of current husbandry has led to developments which is now thought to be common sense as tazzle demonstrates. Maybe we should have just asked her before we gave the vet, who is a very very clever person, our money to cure our laminitic horses with crazy shoeing and drugs which gave them ulcers and abcesses, which holed them up in a stable for 6 months no moving.

Should have just unshod him... 

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I agree tally ho ...... and with your defintion of the difference between unshod and barefoot ....... when I wrote my "dont care" post I was tired and fed up and  not in the best of moods .  There are times when I actually am not bothered when people that are closed minded are just  nit picking about it and denigrating "barefoot" as extremeism ... but when a serious discussion is taking place yes I agree that there is a difference between taking shoes off temporarily and taking them off ( or never putting them on)  with purpose  long term.

and that A lot of our equines are paying the price of us keeping them on grass "designed" for high yield calories from pasture for milk and beef production ........ 


actually I was "challenged" a few weeks ago by someone who said our horses were in "poor" condition  / considering reporting me to WHW. Said complainants neds are, you guessed it prob ........ obese 

One of my horses got a very mild dose of lami a few years ago and even the vet could suggest nothing to change in our mangement to prevent a recurrence as our management was "perfect" ! We think it was the change in grass nutrients due to the longer, warmer summer  / autumn so we were even stricter with the grazing for longer and no issues this year. If we had listened to above person a few weeks ago and given them more grass I suspect we might have had recurrence of lami as conditions identical to the year she did get it . Chatting to our vet this week he says there has been again this autumn higher levels of LGL and full blown laminitis.

To me it does just seem common sense and everyday .... but I am not in a livery yard so I am, these days, not used to how other people manage their horses re stabling, feed etc.I remember doing it in the distant past but  its now alien to me


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## cptrayes (16 November 2011)

Janah said:



			I am amazed  at the number of barefoot horses on here!!!
		
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So am I Janah!  Of course there are far more people with shod horses who simply haven't answered the poll question, and the poll is pretty useless really (though interesting!), but goodness me aren't there a lot of us now who aren't paying £80 a set to have a farrier nail steel to our horses' feet any more!?


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## tallyho! (16 November 2011)

Thanks tazzle. I'm sorry if I got a bit uppity - barefoot came to me quite late tbh and after 4 years of research and putting it into practice makes me mad when people 'cheapen' it by arguing it is the same as unshod. It's common sense when you start to discover things, but I wasn't taught any of it at riding schools or older people as I grew up. I found it by myself and my friends think I'm mad!

Yes, agree about this year high numbers of lami again. Mine is still muzzled out there mid november and I get called cruel. What is more cruel? Lami or muzzle which allows him to roam with a herd 24/7 but not each as much.


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## tazzle (16 November 2011)

nah ..... didn't think you were uppity    .... you were clarifying for anyone confuggled 

Have a wee laugh ....

. I remember turning up for and endurance ride some years back and the farrier looking her Taz's feet  saying at first she could not compete because she was not shod. Then when I said she was barefoot he  demanded a letter from my farrier so he could be sure I had not just pulled shoes off recently cos I had lost one   .....  Flipping heck could he not see she had no nail holes in her hooves    

He let me take past only cos I had brought her boots as back up 


this was her on stony ground







actually a lot of it was stony ground through forest trails that day !

and at one point she was trotting and keeping up with an arab that went nowhere at less than 8 - 9 mph....... not bad


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## tallyho! (16 November 2011)

Hah ha! yep, no nail holes - what a farrier!!!!!!

That's awesome! She a beaut of a rock-cruncher  You both look great!


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## whisp&willow (16 November 2011)

tazzle said:



			nah ..... didn't think you were uppity    .... you were clarifying for anyone confuggled 

Have a wee laugh ....

. I remember turning up for and endurance ride some years back and the farrier looking her Taz's feet  saying at first she could not compete because she was not shod. Then when I said she was barefoot he  demanded a letter from my farrier so he could be sure I had not just pulled shoes off recently cos I had lost one   .....  Flipping heck could he not see she had no nail holes in her hooves    

He let me take past only cos I had brought her boots as back up 


this was her on stony ground







actually a lot of it was stony ground through forest trails that day !

and at one point she was trotting and keeping up with an arab that went nowhere at less than 8 - 9 mph....... not bad 

Click to expand...

  if it aint broke, dont fix it!    my horse was unshod for 2 years while she was out of work, but is now shod on all four while in work.


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## gemliz23 (16 November 2011)

Hi I'm a student in my final year of my degree (BSc equine science) and for my dissertation I am looking at different shoe materials.  Just wondered if any of you have used plastic shoes?  If you have would you mind completing this very short survey?  Your participation will be a great help.   http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/KZFTK3T


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## thatsmygirl (16 November 2011)

I honestly think this is a huge subject which a lot off people don't understand or not willing to understand what a horses hoof is actually capable of achiving without shoes put on there feet.
6 months ago I was totally anti bare foot, a load off crap, horses need shoes etc etc but I think it's lack off understanding for the subject that makes people that way. The only horses I ever saw was ones who had lost a shoe and couldn't walk. So we put a shoe back on and all was fine!!! Not once did I stand back and think why can't my horse walk without his shoe. But as you look into it more and  diet being so important,  I wonder how many people who actually think bare foot is rubbish have horses  on 
unsuitable diets. 
The whole bare foot, working horses bare foot, diet, trimming etc is a complete mine field but one iv now taken a keen interest in and now how 3 horses bare foot, and 3 bare behinds which fronts coming off soon. All the diets had to be changed and I'm learning everyday but it's not total rubbish as I first though months ago and those who think it is..... Go and do some research you may be shocked at how unsuitable your horses diet is and learn a lot to make you question things and wonder why iv shod for 30 odd years.


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## Oberon (16 November 2011)

thatsmygirl said:



			I honestly think this is a huge subject which a lot off people don't understand or not willing to understand what a horses hoof is actually capable of achiving without shoes put on there feet.
6 months ago I was totally anti bare foot, a load off crap, horses need shoes etc etc but I think it's lack off understanding for the subject that makes people that way. The only horses I ever saw was ones who had lost a shoe and couldn't walk. So we put a shoe back on and all was fine!!! Not once did I stand back and think why can't my horse walk without his shoe. But as you look into it more and  diet being so important,  I wonder how many people who actually think bare foot is rubbish have horses  on 
unsuitable diets. 
The whole bare foot, working horses bare foot, diet, trimming etc is a complete mine field but one iv now taken a keen interest in and now how 3 horses bare foot, and 3 bare behinds which fronts coming off soon. All the diets had to be changed and I'm learning everyday but it's not total rubbish as I first though months ago and those who think it is..... Go and do some research you may be shocked at how unsuitable your horses diet is and learn a lot to make you question things and wonder why iv shod for 30 odd years.
		
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And that's all anyone could ask.

I wish other people could follow your example and take the time to learn and make decisions based on knowledge, not fear and superstition.


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## tallyho! (17 November 2011)

thatsmygirl said:



			I honestly think this is a huge subject which a lot off people don't understand or not willing to understand what a horses hoof is actually capable of achiving without shoes put on there feet.
6 months ago I was totally anti bare foot, a load off crap, horses need shoes etc etc but I think it's lack off understanding for the subject that makes people that way. The only horses I ever saw was ones who had lost a shoe and couldn't walk. So we put a shoe back on and all was fine!!! Not once did I stand back and think why can't my horse walk without his shoe. But as you look into it more and  diet being so important,  I wonder how many people who actually think bare foot is rubbish have horses  on 
unsuitable diets. 
The whole bare foot, working horses bare foot, diet, trimming etc is a complete mine field but one iv now taken a keen interest in and now how 3 horses bare foot, and 3 bare behinds which fronts coming off soon. All the diets had to be changed and I'm learning everyday but it's not total rubbish as I first though months ago and those who think it is..... Go and do some research you may be shocked at how unsuitable your horses diet is and learn a lot to make you question things and wonder why iv shod for 30 odd years.
		
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Exactly!!! 

It's when you ask the right questions, you start to succeed.


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## jeeve (17 November 2011)

7 horses - non are shod regardless of the work or lack of, no issues at all despite dire warnings from vet (for my ISH).


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## FanyDuChamp (17 November 2011)

Both bare foot. Captain because he is semi-retired and does no road work anyway! Fany because I took pity on the farrier, her feet are extremely tough and she really does not need shoes and poor farrier was getting a bad back with all her leaning!
FDC


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## ebonyallen (17 November 2011)

Shoes on front and nothing on the hinds.


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## monte1 (17 November 2011)

this is a very interesting subject. i have just , three weeks ago, taken back shoes off both of mine for the winter as a bit of an experiment, both have excellent feet and live out mostly 24/7, good well drained ground, which helps i am sure.  no problems at all at the moment, in fact a huge improvement when going downhill on some of the slippery tarmac country lanes round here, no longer slipping with back feet! will be intersting to see if they can go year round without them, especially in summer when ground becomes harder and we doing more cross country etc??


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## dizz4 (17 November 2011)

sheep said:



			What is the split between shod / partially shod / barefoot horses here? Just interested to see.
		
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We currently have 6 Welsh Cobs in work at the moment, 2 youngsters, 3 older and 1 stallion and 5 are unshod (reguarly trimmed every 8 weeks) with varying workloads from schoolwork, dressage tests, jumping, hacking even county showing all without shoes....

The only one that has shoes is my horse as he has the softest horn, it separates from the white line down and then just folds under but he can keep a set of front shoes on for 8 weeks and that looks after his feet.....  All the others seem to have relatively hard horn which doesn't wear excessively with the work given....


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## Changes (17 November 2011)

cptrayes said:



			Too right, am I arrogant enough to believe that they are wrong and I am right.
		
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I really am speechless at your delusional sense of importance.


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## tallyho! (17 November 2011)

Goodness me changes, give it a rest changes. Anyone would think you two fancy each other


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## Amaranta (17 November 2011)

Had to vote barefoot but mine are unshod and are trimmed by my very good farrier


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## cptrayes (17 November 2011)

tallyho! said:



			Goodness me changes, give it a rest changes. Anyone would think you two fancy each other 

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Oh no, is it that obvious TallyHo? I thought I'd hidden it better than that


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## tallyho! (17 November 2011)

Well, I didn't want to say anything but...


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## soloequestrian (17 November 2011)

Maybe there will come a time in the future when not having shoes on is such a normal state of affairs for horses that there will only be 'a horse' and 'a shod horse' and the worries about 'barefoot' and 'unshod' will all disappear!


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## Changes (17 November 2011)

tallyho! said:



			Goodness me changes, give it a rest changes. Anyone would think you two fancy each other 

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Lol - wear your heart on you sleeve, why don't you!!! 

Don't worry, I'm not about to steal your thunder with your little friend.


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## tallyho! (18 November 2011)

I love the way you always have to have the last word... it's slowly growing on me


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## tallyho! (18 November 2011)

soloequestrian said:



			Maybe there will come a time in the future when not having shoes on is such a normal state of affairs for horses that there will only be 'a horse' and 'a shod horse' and the worries about 'barefoot' and 'unshod' will all disappear!
		
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Hmmm... theres a thought!!!


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## Tinypony (18 November 2011)

Barefoot/Shod/Unshod...  Yes, using the term unshod implies that shod is the norm.


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## spookypony (18 November 2011)

1 round pony, barefoot.
Yard has 30+ horses, about a dozen of whom are barefoot. No-one is a Parelli-ite.   The barefoot horses include a driving pony, 2 TBs, a Clydie, a TBx, an Andalusian, a Percheron. Ages range from yearling to 23yo. Activities range from nothing (yearling), through light schooling and long hacks (youngsters), to endurance and jumping. Some of the horses have Easyboots, but don't use them often.

I agree that the survey in itself is flawed---there is no way to check that the sample is representative of the general horse-owning population, and there is no accommodation for multiple-horse owners. I don't think this matters, particularly, since I'm assuming that the OP isn't actually trying to be terribly scientific. I also suspect that the high proportion of people answering "barefoot" is due to a reluctance of others to open the thread/get drawn into yet another debate.

It is the time of year, however, when we suddenly see wads of surveys appearing from dissertation students...I see this sort of phenomenon among uni students, and the problem is that some of the surveys are not well-designed, and the students concerned generally lack the statistical knowledge to really be able to evaluate their data. I do wish their supervisors would encourage them to find slightly more robust ways of researching their areas of interest.


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## ilvpippa (18 November 2011)

Mines shod on all four hooves. Have tried to take backs off, she has strong healthy feet & coped ok untill the ground went hard & refused to walk on anything but grass. Her shoes also help the balance as she has long toes. Eventually would like to wean her off back shoes. Purely its cheaper, but wouldnt hesitate to put them back on again


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## amandap (18 November 2011)

Tinypony said:



			Barefoot/Shod/Unshod...  Yes, using the term unshod implies that shod is the norm.
		
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I think this too.


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## cptrayes (18 November 2011)

ilvpippa said:



			Mines shod on all four hooves. Have tried to take backs off, she has strong healthy feet & coped ok untill the ground went hard & refused to walk on anything but grass. Her shoes also help the balance as she has long toes. Eventually would like to wean her off back shoes. Purely its cheaper, but wouldnt hesitate to put them back on again
		
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Did the ground go hard in winter, causing this problem? If not, could I suggest that your more likely problem was that she coped OK until the spring grass came through? This is so common it's almost epidemic, especially in horses on old cow pasture or who are good doer types.

You would probably also find her long toes rapidly correct themselves without shoes on - it's extremely unusual for properly trimmed barefooter to have long toes, I've never seen one myself. They seem almost always to be caused by shoes, not the horse's natural foot conformation.


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## Snowysadude (18 November 2011)

I havnt read the replies and have always wondered about, I just do what works for the horse and my routine which is shoeing I honestly dont have the facilities to try other methods (still spend over an hour a day treating his bleeding feet!). 

I only wonder as obviously people who are barefoot bother speaking up and advocating it if you like. But I know I have shod horses so I am sure there are others that dont really need to say anything and so the replies to threads are skewed and appear everyone is barefoot! I have worked on a lot of yards all over the country and kept horses/have friends on lots of yards and the only barefoot ones I have known were retired or didnt hack at all but then most of their owners are not on forums either ! Would love to one day try it with the horse with awful feet but he literally grows no foot at all and nothing is helping so darent as I have to do a lot of roadwork to get anywhere from my yard!


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## Oberon (18 November 2011)

Snowysadude said:



			I havnt read the replies and have always wondered about, I just do what works for the horse and my routine which is shoeing I honestly dont have the facilities to try other methods (still spend over an hour a day treating his bleeding feet!). 

I only wonder as obviously people who are barefoot bother speaking up and advocating it if you like. But I know I have shod horses so I am sure there are others that dont really need to say anything and so the replies to threads are skewed and appear everyone is barefoot! I have worked on a lot of yards all over the country and kept horses/have friends on lots of yards and the only barefoot ones I have known were retired or didnt hack at all but then most of their owners are not on forums either ! Would love to one day try it with the horse with awful feet but he literally grows no foot at all and nothing is helping so darent as I have to do a lot of roadwork to get anywhere from my yard!
		
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The changes in routine are usually based on diet and doing as much work as possible.
	
	
		
		
	


	




Hooves are designed to be used and abused by the ground and with an appropriate diet and care, you'd be surprised what they can do Endurance horses have some of the best bare hooves around.

The ethos that hooves need protecting or they'll fall apart is tragic. Hooves are amazing structures. They are so dynamic - they change constantly in response to changes in the body. 

Shod horses have been found to grow hoof much slower as it's a matter of stimulation.
I've never heard of a horse with awful feet who hasn't suffered from years of poor (high sugar/starch and low mineral) diet and hoof care. 

Even a break from shoes for a couple of months can often do the world of good - as long as the owner is prepared to learn how to keep the horse comfortable during this time.

If you want to keep your horse shod - then cool. I'm not trying to 'draft' you in a barefoot cult
	
	
		
		
	


	





But please don't think that there's no hope of growing good hooves on your horse. It's just a case of a few, small adjustments, some research....and faith


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## tallyho! (19 November 2011)

Oberon said:



			If you want to keep your horse shod - then cool. I'm not trying to 'draft' you in a barefoot cult
	
	
		
		
	


	





But please don't think that there's no hope of growing good hooves on your horse. It's just a case of a few, small adjustments, some research....and faith 

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There is a really sinister initiation ceremony involving bananas, pancakes and maple syrup. 

It's quite shocking.


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