# Does anyone NOT stable?



## Darlabean (14 November 2017)

If so, why?
I have good doers and a half acre hard standing as well as an arena for the horses I  can use when fields are wet. I know I am priveledged and appreciate that.  I read so often about horses in stables, even 24/7 and I know liveries have rules about turnout, but if horses living quarters were the same as those in zoos, there would be legislation against the type and amount  of confinementto a 12 x 12 cage  some use. Ok, responsible owners get them out and about from time to time but a stable is still quite a confinement for such a big animal but it&#8217;s not considered to be so. Is it because horses fall under the legislation of urban as well as rural work animals, still? Cribbing, weaving, wind sucking, box walking, kicking walls ....are these just products of our horses screaming to be heard?


----------



## dozzie (14 November 2017)

Mine live out all year. They are only stabled if necessary. This could be the farrier coming the next day in winter, injury or a show. So reallisticallly, unless injured, they are stabled for my convenience, not theirs. But I have a lot of turnout. I can understand where turnout is limited they may be better in a stable for part of the time. Personally I would not be happy with a horse in 24/7 unless on box rest and even then, I think, with some injuries,  some horses would be better off mooching around out in a field.


----------



## Celtic Fringe (14 November 2017)

Mine live out all year too. Old cob is extremely stable-phobic and at approx 30 years of age it would do him no good at all to be standing in. Even when the horspital recommended box rest after stifle surgery my own vet, who knows him well, suggested a small paddock instead. Young cob is on schooling livery but also lives out with a companion. He comes in for an hour to have a feed and some hay after he has worked but goes out again as soon as possible. Touch wood both are healthy, vice-free and generally take things in their stride.


----------



## NZJenny (14 November 2017)

In NZ, not stabling is the norm.  Most horses here live out, year around and most horse owners don't even have access to stables.   Mine happily live out in a rented 10 acre paddock, with only natural shelter.  I have two retired, who are happily not rugged year around, and my current riding horse who is rugged according to the season and fully clipped out in winter.  In the winter, we just put up with the mud and during the spring/summer I electric fence with tape, standards and a battery run unit to limit the grass.  

I can only think of one paddock injury in the last 20 years and not had any problems competing either.  All though occasionally I have wished for a stable, while scrubbing the mud off of legs in the dark for a dressage comp. during the depths of winter.....


----------



## windand rain (14 November 2017)

Mine live out 24/7 I simply wouldnt own a horse unless it could spend at least 8 hours outside preferably more. I personally think it is cruelty in the extreme to keep any animal in a confined space for long periods, Stables, dog crates and fish bowls are all places of animal torture. That is not to say they  dont have short term benefits in the case of illness and all animals should learn to tolerate them calmly in case they are needed but only in absolutely unavoidable situations


----------



## JJS (14 November 2017)

windand rain said:



			Mine live out 24/7 I simply wouldnt own a horse unless it could spend at least 8 hours outside preferably more. I personally think it is cruelty in the extreme to keep any animal in a confined space for long periods, Stables, dog crates and fish bowls are all places of animal torture. That is not to say they  dont have short term benefits in the case of illness and all animals should learn to tolerate them calmly in case they are needed but only in absolutely unavoidable situations
		
Click to expand...

This with bells on. Mine are out unless there's some very good reason for them not to be. There are two stables between four of them available, so there is always space for them and a companion if anyone needs to be box rested, but they spend as little time inside as possible.


----------



## Spiritedly (14 November 2017)

All of mine live out with the native ponies being unrugged all winter....smallest has a lightweight if he reaches the stage where he's getting too sweaty in his ridden work and needs a clip....they have access to natural shelter and are fed adlib hay. I have access to a stable if it's ever needed but we have a covered tie up area for when the vet/farrier is coming so the stable is only for real emergencies. 
All of mine seem to prefer living out, even my wimpy boy, and I would hate for any of them to have to be stabled 24/7 but...with the exception of my youngster... they will all accept being stabled. I actually think my youngster has the equine version of claustrophobia as he won't travel in a trailer/box either  When he injured his leg and needed to be confined we fenced off a small section of the field and he was quite happy so it seems to be the walls rather than the size of the area that he dislikes.


----------



## splashgirl45 (14 November 2017)

in an ideal world i would like mine to be out all of the time but as i dont have my own place with loads of turnout i have to abide by the rules of the yard.  mine is out 24/7 in summer but she is bought in to the stable for a short time to have breakfast and be groomed ready to ride then turned out again.  in winter i ride first thing and she is turned out all day and in at night.  i feel she has a good quality of life and certainly dont think she regards being in her stable as torture...  my puppy is also in a crate when i am out or in bed and he doesnt seem to be bothered, i would rather he was safe and not chewing wires etc.


----------



## maggiestar (14 November 2017)

Ooh, but think about the stable stains! Your horse might get a bit dirty and then what?! 
Sarcasm aside I applaud you for your enlightened approach. Your horses are lucky to have you.


----------



## Northern (15 November 2017)

Both of mine are out 24/7, 365 days a year. Both thoroughbreds, Whilst I do have stables, I leave them open for the horses to use as shelter when they deem necessary (which isn't often!). I'm pretty lucky in that 24/7 living is pretty much the norm for horses in Australia, and I will always do everything in my power to keep them out of the stables in fields full time.


----------



## shanti (15 November 2017)

My stables are used for when one is sick, when the vet/farrier come out and occasionally for my old mare if there is extreme heat. I have over 80 acres with plenty of natural shade and protection so that helps as well. I hate seeing horses stuck in stables all day. I'm in Australia and its not that common but I know a few people who think horses NEED to be stabled all the time so they perform better!


----------



## Supertrooper (15 November 2017)

Mine is out 24/7, 365 days a year. He is a free spirit and hates being confined at all. Hes got a field shelter which he will only go in/out of to eat.


----------



## SEL (15 November 2017)

This is the first winter mine have been stabled at night (fields struggle and turn to mud). They don't like it, I don't like it, but right now I feel lucky they actually get a decent amount of daytime turnout.

When my lottery win comes through things will be different!


----------



## MissTyc (15 November 2017)

Mine are out all year. I have stables for them but I don't really use them. They seem happier being out and about. I usually have them in for a few hours during the day to feed, dry feet, have a cuddle, etc ... but not even every day.


----------



## Landcruiser (15 November 2017)

Mine are never shut in, they have 2 open stables they can use as shelters. I'm lucky enough to have my own place now, and to have inherited a 20x20 turnout, yard and stables they can live on when our clay fields get too wet. So far this year they are still out 24/7 with lots of grass, but I'd guess we'll only have a very few more weeks before they are confined to the yard area.


----------



## Nudibranch (15 November 2017)

Mine are out 24/7 and I have never had to do anything otherwise. There's a barn but they choose not to use it. I'm probably quite fortunate in that the 3 places I've lived, have all been able to have 24/7 living out. Winter field here for example is 9 acres for 2 so even on clay there's no need to restrict turnout.


----------



## Bertolie (15 November 2017)

My two are stabled at night all year round as per yard rules. We are on clay and the fields get really muddy in winter. Stabling at night all year round means we are able to have daily turnout in winter. It also means my fatties are off the grass at night with soaked hay instead. The horses seem to like the routine and are perfectly happy to stay in during the day if the weather dictates.  They do have lovely large stables with plenty of room to move around and can groom each other over the partition.


----------



## sunnyone (15 November 2017)

I too regard a stable as a prison cell or a private waiting room for feed or treatment. When at home , mine can come and go as they please almost all the time. The doors are shut only at meal times. Result is relaxed and happy horses with no vices.


----------



## Auslander (15 November 2017)

I think we have enough people-bashing on here re shoeing/not shoeing, rugging/not rugging, etc etc - and I'm not thrilled to see another post that implies people are being cruel to their horses. Many many horses are happy to be stabled - some actively prefer it. Let's live and let live please.

Mine live out 24/7, incidentally...


----------



## Tiddlypom (15 November 2017)

Auslander said:



			I think we have enough people-bashing on here re shoeing/not shoeing, rugging/not rugging, etc etc - and I'm not thrilled to see another post that implies people are being cruel to their horses. Many many horses are happy to be stabled - some actively prefer it. Let's live and let live please.

Mine live out 24/7, incidentally...
		
Click to expand...

Quite. (And mine usually live out 24/7, too).

New poster sets off banging a drum about a subject that gets done to death on here, with lots of folk getting on their high horses :rolleyes3:.


----------



## Leo Walker (15 November 2017)

Auslander said:



			I think we have enough people-bashing on here re shoeing/not shoeing, rugging/not rugging, etc etc - and I'm not thrilled to see another post that implies people are being cruel to their horses. Many many horses are happy to be stabled - some actively prefer it. Let's live and let live please.

Mine live out 24/7, incidentally...
		
Click to expand...

This! Mine is in during the day in summer and overnight in winter. I'm on a livery yard and thats how it works. I wouldnt ever keep a horse in 24/7 but this routine seems a perfectly adequate compromise. Current horse wont live out anyway, and starts getting agitated and jumping out and bringing himself in if I try and leave him out


----------



## catkin (15 November 2017)

Tiddlypom said:



			Quite. (And mine usually live out 24/7, too).

New poster sets off banging a drum about a subject that gets done to death on here, with lots of folk getting on their high horses :rolleyes3:.
		
Click to expand...

Well said both of you

Sometimes things are a very stark choice - what you'd ideally want to do and what has to happen are different:
ie pony out all the time = laminitis = die. part-stabled = no laminitis = don't die.

different strokes for different folks (and horses)


----------



## scats (15 November 2017)

Leo Walker said:



			Quite! Mine is in during the day in summer and overnight in winter. I'm on a livery yard and thats how it works. I wouldnt ever keep a horse in 24/7 but this routine seems a perfectly adequate compromise. Current horse wont live out anyway, and starts getting agitated and jumping out and bringing himself in if I try and leave him out
		
Click to expand...

Same.  If I left the Diva out 24/7 on our summer grass, she'd be dead in no time.  Mine on the yard are in during the day in summer and in overnight in winter.  They get at least 7 or 8 hours turnout a day during the winter, plus work 5-6 days a week.


----------



## milliepops (15 November 2017)

Auslander said:



			I think we have enough people-bashing on here re shoeing/not shoeing, rugging/not rugging, etc etc - and I'm not thrilled to see another post that implies people are being cruel to their horses. Many many horses are happy to be stabled - some actively prefer it. Let's live and let live please.

Mine live out 24/7, incidentally...
		
Click to expand...

Well said!

Mine would live out quite happily... but the area I'm in has pants turnout in the winter so while they are out today, they have no grazing and will be asking to come in this afternoon to their hay.  It's just they way things are, it's not a perfect world so we make the best of it.

I don't think it's helpful to liken a stable to a zoo enclosure because horses are domesticated and so it's possible to meet their other needs in different ways. Mine are exercised without fail when stabled, for example.. whereas you probably wouldn't want to take a zoo animal out for a run :rolleyes3:


----------



## MotherOfChickens (15 November 2017)

Auslander said:



			I think we have enough people-bashing on here re shoeing/not shoeing, rugging/not rugging, etc etc - and I'm not thrilled to see another post that implies people are being cruel to their horses. Many many horses are happy to be stabled - some actively prefer it. Let's live and let live please.

Mine live out 24/7, incidentally...
		
Click to expand...

yes exactly. mine come in when it suits me-rest of the time they are out. don't give a rats arse what the OP thinks.


----------



## paddi22 (15 November 2017)

mine live out 24/7 anyway, but before my stable were built there was a while i struggled without having a stable there. One winter in particular was dreadful i struggled without one because I needed a stable to 
- box rest a horse
- one got abcesses all winter and needed a lot of poulticing
- one got a bad cut and needed the leg kept dry to bandage
- generally early morning starts for shows were impossible in bad weather in winter with no stable
- i discovered one horse really wanted to come in at night and sleep on a dry bed. when i kept him out he didn't perform as well. he loves being out during the day, but hates to be out in winter at night
- if you need a vet at night it's handy to have somewhere with a dry floor, walls and lighting


----------



## Beth206 (15 November 2017)

Mine is out 24/7, all year. She has open access to her stable and a hardstanding where we put the haynets in winter. She is only stabled during winter if I have the farrier coming early morning and I want her feet to dry out. It is very hard to find a yard near me where you have all year turnout - I do compromise with having no facilities but would much rather my horse be happy than having alternate days turnout or for her to be turned out in an arena for a couple of hours each day.


----------



## Cortez (15 November 2017)

Auslander said:



			I think we have enough people-bashing on here re shoeing/not shoeing, rugging/not rugging, etc etc - and I'm not thrilled to see another post that implies people are being cruel to their horses. Many many horses are happy to be stabled - some actively prefer it. Let's live and let live please.

Mine live out 24/7, incidentally...
		
Click to expand...

Quite. Not all horses are able or willing to live out 24/7, which is why there are different routines available for them.


----------



## Antw23uk (15 November 2017)

Mine live out 24/7 on three acres and I have an open yard policy giving them access to hard standing and two stables as and when they choose to use them .. which isnt very often. My fields get pretty trashed ... and low and behold they recover. I cant really understand how keeping a horse off a trashed muddy field for 8 hours out of 24 can help the field but happy to be enlightened and educated.

If I had a horse on livery my preferred yard locally dont do winter turnout. Each horse gets an hour or so in a trash paddock daily and the owner is responsible for riding it daily or taking it for a walk in hand up the driveway .. oh actually I think they have a horse walker now. It is what it is, its not my preferred method but if it needs to be done it needs to be done, live and let live but be proactive as an owner and get the horse out as much as possible, be that for a walk, ridden, a good groom and fuss ect just to break up the day!


----------



## cobgoblin (15 November 2017)

Mine are in during  the day in the for most of the year and in at night in the winter if we have horrendous weather. Usually they can't wait to come in and have a good kip, especially if it's hot or the flies are about.


----------



## Cortez (15 November 2017)

Antw23uk said:



			Mine live out 24/7 on three acres and I have an open yard policy giving them access to hard standing and two stables as and when they choose to use them .. which isnt very often. My fields get pretty trashed ... and low and behold they recover. I cant really understand how keeping a horse off a trashed muddy field for 8 hours out of 24 can help the field but happy to be enlightened and educated.
		
Click to expand...

Erm....it means it doesn't actually get trashed? At least that is what happens with mine, but then I am lucky enough to have enough land to be able to move the horses around if the ground is getting poached.


----------



## Antw23uk (15 November 2017)

Cortez said:



			Erm....it means it doesn't actually get trashed? At least that is what happens with mine, but then I am lucky enough to have enough land to be able to move the horses around if the ground is getting poached.
		
Click to expand...

I guess we cant all be so wonderfully lucky then can we!


----------



## nikicb (15 November 2017)

Auslander said:



			I think we have enough people-bashing on here re shoeing/not shoeing, rugging/not rugging, etc etc - and I'm not thrilled to see another post that implies people are being cruel to their horses. Many many horses are happy to be stabled - some actively prefer it. Let's live and let live please.

Mine live out 24/7, incidentally...
		
Click to expand...

Quite, although you (and others) clearly use fences to shut them in, perhaps we should remove those and let them run free as nature intended?  

Anyway, my horses all get treated as individuals, and are looked after to the best of my abilities within the constraints I have (i.e. not hundreds of acres of natural pasture).  One is out unrugged, 24/7/365, the two old ponies (both mid 20s) are out 24/7 in the Summer, in at night in the Winter, my mare is out at night in the Summer and in at night in the Winter.  I have to limit her Summer turnout hours especially, as she not only gets affected by the grass, she also gets a photosensitive skin issue with her four white heels.  

As an aside, my dogs, when young, are crated at night and when we are out - far safer than leaving them to chew/eat anything they shouldn't.


----------



## Adonissaan (15 November 2017)

All the horses I've ever owned have lived out and most of them being UK native ponies would be fine all year non-rugged with no shelter but I'm a softie so would still put a rug on them and had my dad build nice big shelters in the field for them with some straw down, a haynet and a toy!


----------



## Auslander (15 November 2017)

nikicb said:



			Quite, although you (and others) clearly use fences to shut them in, perhaps we should remove those and let them run free as nature intended?  
.
		
Click to expand...

I don't need to remove my fences. The bloody things go wherever they like, regardless of whether I've erected a fence in the way or not...

No - they were NOT there when I left them last night...


----------



## nikicb (15 November 2017)

Auslander said:



			I don't need to remove my fences. The bloody things go wherever they like, regardless of whether I've erected a fence in the way or not...

No - they were NOT there when I left them last night...






Click to expand...

They are clearly communicating with you that they are not happy with their level of care!


----------



## Nasicus (15 November 2017)

It's down to what the horses want vs what they need. Both of mine will happily live out 24/7, and whilst the youngster does just that, coming in for the odd night if she's needed in the morning, the older one is out by day/in at night for the winter and vice versa in the summer as she will happily gorge herself stupid and laminitic if left out 24/7, and is miserable in a muzzle. She's perfectly content to come in though, it's warm, dry and she gets dinner/meds and lots of hay to keep her fed and occupied


----------



## happyclappy (15 November 2017)

Never have and probably never will. They prefer being out and rarely get rugged. I see no reason to, they are all fit and healthy and happy.
They do have a large shelter with hard standing should they wish to use it.


----------



## Auslander (15 November 2017)

nikicb said:



			They are clearly communicating with you that they are not happy with their level of care!    

Click to expand...

They can get stuffed! They opted to move from the big field to the little paddock, leaving the old girl to eat ALL the hay. Their loss!


----------



## nikicb (15 November 2017)

Auslander said:



			They can get stuffed! They opted to move from the big field to the little paddock, leaving the old girl to eat ALL the hay. Their loss!
		
Click to expand...

Wise old girl for not joining them.


----------



## Auslander (15 November 2017)

nikicb said:



			Wise old girl for not joining them.  

Click to expand...

She is possibly the cleverest horse I've ever met. Wise and wily old bird!


----------



## weesophz (15 November 2017)

Ive been on both ends. My last horse lived in most of the time due to being an utter pansy and would just stand at the gate when it rained. He flourished in summer living out 24/7 but again as soon as it rained he wanted in. Cost so much in shavings haylege feed etc. 

My current boy lives out constantly. Isnt bothered about the wet weather and is so much easier to keep. I 100% prefer to have them out, so much better for them. Im a firm believer in animals living as natural a life as possible! We have the option of 24/7 all year turn out and can bring them in as we please. If its totally miserable we keep them in to give them a break from being soaked and to try avoid rain scald as my boy isnt rugged. But yeah living out all the way!


----------



## suestowford (15 November 2017)

I don't as I don't actually have a stable. I do have a big shed and they can use that if they want to (they don't, often).


----------



## Batgirl (15 November 2017)

I'm cruel and selfish.  Mine is stabled overnight in the winter and in the day in the summer.  

This is for several reasons (in priority order)
I need a yard that I can get to  - there are none in striking distance that offer 24/7 T/O
I need a yard with staff I can trust - I have this where I am
My horse needs to be stabled in the day in the summer or he melts.

At the time my horses needs became so priority that he needed 24/7 T/O I would either have to sell him or put him down as I won't move area and job to get it and he won't share a field as he is aggressive with other horses and unhappy.

I don't care if people think I am cruel - my horse, my rules.  If the law changes and I couldn't find a place I could use then I would stop having horses.  Until then. Judge me.


----------



## The Fuzzy Furry (15 November 2017)

Mine are currently out 24/7, I have too much grass,  they are all muzzled in daytime at present. 
They have access to 3 field shelters, one is dirt floor, another has miscanthus and the big one has straw bedding (the smalls won't eat it but like nesting in it occasionally). They all have their own stable, and i have a couple spare .....

I have no mud.....

If the weather annoys me by throwing it down on a work day, then they will do an odd night in. It's good training for all of them to be in overnight and separated from their pals.  It's much more pleasant for me to muck 3 boxes out at 6am than potter off with barrow to poo pick and get drenched! 

So, I can do 24/7 out, but they do get stabled on random occasions in winter and summer


----------



## Tiddlypom (15 November 2017)

Loved this pic which was on FB recently.







https://www.facebook.com/equineherbalist/posts/1519803161441605


----------



## honetpot (15 November 2017)

Mine live out unrugged as much as possible. If they are in work they live out clipped and rugged as much as possible. 
  As we are on clay, coming in means coming in to open barns with access to a thrash paddock 24/7.
 I treated myself to some very smart second hand Loddon stables when we moved, which are only used if one needs to come in for extra feeding or the vet or farrier is coming. I also think it helps to reassure people that they are not entering Steptoes yard, the last posh vet, not mine, said it was a nice yard. Others wise everything else is old, muddy and vet students thought the ponies were rescued as they were hidden by a foot of mane.
   I have never had one with a stable vice, and the last one that had a virus came back with it from a livery yard, so I must be doing something right.
   I have kept a horse in a stable over winter because they there was no turnout at all, but they were exercised properly and had a huge light stable.
    I think the thing I object about stabling now is that horses do not get enough exercise, company or forage. That stable design seems not to have progressed and its more about how they look and not about the horses needs. They are nearly all enclosed and dark when daylight and ventilation cost virtually nothing.
    The in the old days, which I saw the tale end of, horses were kept in stalls, they always seemed to be content, as they could see and smell their companions. Perhaps it a rosy glow of the past but I can not remember one having a stable vice


----------



## Kezzabell2 (15 November 2017)

My horse is in at night from Dec to April but my mini shetty lives out 24/7, however he does have a massive field shelter that he uses ALOT, like when its hot in the winter, over night and if its raining, so having had this option for him, I would no longer be happy for him to be out 24/7 without a shelter as he clearly likes it in there!


----------



## Fiona (15 November 2017)

Auslander said:



			I think we have enough people-bashing on here re shoeing/not shoeing, rugging/not rugging, etc etc - and I'm not thrilled to see another post that implies people are being cruel to their horses. Many many horses are happy to be stabled - some actively prefer it. Let's live and let live please.

Mine live out 24/7, incidentally...
		
Click to expand...

Well said...

I've done both out 24/7 and in/out, and will continue to choose what is best for the individual horse in the future...

Fiona


----------



## blitznbobs (15 November 2017)

My horses are obviously not the norm then... they live out 24/7 in the summer but come the beginning of October they are leaning on the gate at 4pm to come in ... I'd prefer they stay out - less work for me that way I'm the depths of winter the cob hides at the back of his stable when it's time to go out and has to be dragged to the field. Horses like people are all different but don't tell me all horses want to be out 24/7/365 ... because there is no way to know that really and if it's just reading their behaviour then mine prefer to be in when it's wet and cold.


----------



## Lintel (15 November 2017)

Totally agree with your post OP, I've recently come from a yard where 24/7 stable confinement was the norm during 6 months of the year. Other than a few minutes turnout in arena or being ridden.
I now have mine at home, abit like yours paddock and hardstanding and they are both happy boys. I do however think that keeping them in the odd night or day is good for them- they certainly appreciate .. The peace away from each other too!


----------



## Chinchilla (15 November 2017)

Rosie isn't stabled because she refuses to eat and drink in a stable ... Diva is not stabled because our stables aren't exactly most sturdily built in the world and putting a CSNB horse in a dark box for hours on end, when she usually follows her seeing eye pony friend (Rosie) around at night (and uses the moon!), would be blatant abuse.


----------



## WandaMare (15 November 2017)

I have mine at home and they can choose themselves whether to go in or stay out. They do both depending on the weather. I have had some horses that prefer being out and vice versa so like others have said its an individual thing. 

I wouldn't like to accuse other horse owners of being cruel unless there was serious evidence to think so. If horses are happy to be stabled for long periods, are well attended to and don't show any signs of distress then really I don't see it as a major problem. As long as they have some turnout and adequate exercise then its not an issue imo. There are a lot worse things that happen to animals in the world. Its unrealistic to think that horses must have the perfect conditions all of the time, other animals don't and humans definitely don't.


----------



## splashgirl45 (15 November 2017)

sunnyone said:



			I too regard a stable as a prison cell or a private waiting room for feed or treatment. When at home , mine can come and go as they please almost all the time. The doors are shut only at meal times. Result is relaxed and happy horses with no vices.
		
Click to expand...

my horse is relaxed and happy and doesnt have any vices!!!!!. i really dont understand why you are calling stables prison cells, i bet your horses arent any happier than others who are stabled part of the time...


----------



## rowan666 (15 November 2017)

Mine live out 24/7 have access to field shelter, hard standing and adlib haylege. I wouldn't keep them any other way, I briefly kept the boy stabled at night as he randomly prefers to be in but he needs turnout for his joints then he started refusing to go out in crappy weather and ended up being really really stiff so now he isn't given a choice


----------



## Achinghips (15 November 2017)

Mine are on hard standing too in the evenings,  lots more room to move about is great, far better than a stable if you can help it, especially for the oldies. Will always need a stable for emergencies, but a lovely set up, hard standing and with access to a stable. Save a fortune on bedding!  What surface are your hard standing please, OP? I have gravel and a small concrete skirt in front of stables. I was thinking of opening my manège but a bit worried about picking ickle bits of poo off  it and of pee making yard smell. Do they go back in fields for pee and poo?


----------



## AdorableAlice (15 November 2017)

I couldn't imagine not having fully functional stabling and for those of you doing horses without you must be very dedicated owners.


----------



## Chinchilla (15 November 2017)

Oh my god, to all those of you going on about how stables are "prison cells": woa calm down.

 Some horses need to be in for their welfare, some horses - god forbid - PREFER being in to living bitless/treeless/shoeless/nature nazi way. Just sayin', in case you didn't realise... 

Our TB and geriatric Shetland wouldn't leave their stables at all in the winter if they had enough hay to last in there(!!!), but they like their food so will be forced out to graze eventually.

*retreats to super secure underground concrete bunker in preparation for the unholy roasting that is undoubtedly now heading my way...*


----------



## splashgirl45 (15 November 2017)

Chinchilla said:



			Oh my god, to all those of you going on about how stables are "prison cells": woa calm down.

 Some horses need to be in for their welfare, some horses - god forbid - PREFER being in to living bitless/treeless/shoeless/nature nazi way. Just sayin', in case you didn't realise... 

Our TB and geriatric Shetland wouldn't leave their stables at all in the winter if they had enough hay to last in there(!!!), but they like their food so will be forced out to graze eventually.

*retreats to super secure underground concrete bunker in preparation for the unholy roasting that is undoubtedly now heading my way...* 

Click to expand...

no roasting from me, agree wholeheartedly!!!!!!!  i am one of the horrible people,my horse is shod, ridden in a bit and a normal saddle,and is in at night in the winter,  i must be an awful owner, ask my contented happy horse for her opinion....


----------



## Achinghips (15 November 2017)

sorry, but I think op raises a good point. Hard standing combined with stables gives them even more freedom. That can't be a bad thing if they can't go on the fields!


----------



## nikicb (15 November 2017)

Achinghips said:



			sorry, but I think op raises a good point. Hard standing combined with stables gives them even more freedom. That can't be a bad thing if they can't go on the fields!
		
Click to expand...

I think you may need to re read her post in its entirety.  I don't think any of us disagree that a bit of hard standing is useful if you are able to have it, but the rest.....



Darlabean said:



			if horses living quarters were the same as those in zoos, there would be legislation against the type and amount  of confinementto a 12 x 12 cage  some use. Ok, responsible owners get them out and about from time to time but a stable is still quite a confinement for such a big animal but it&#8217;s not considered to be so. Is it because horses fall under the legislation of urban as well as rural work animals, still? Cribbing, weaving, wind sucking, box walking, kicking walls ....are these just products of our horses screaming to be heard?
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Chinchilla (15 November 2017)

Achinghips said:



			sorry, but I think op raises a good point. Hard standing combined with stables gives them even more freedom. That can't be a bad thing if they can't go on the fields!
		
Click to expand...

And nobody was criticising it, just pointing out that it's what's best for the individual. My two who can't/won't be stabled have a sort of hard standing bit with a shelter, natural shelter and lots of space to stop any one place getting very muddy and seem quite happy. Let's face it: if we could custom make yards to suit each and every horse that would be ideal, but it isn't possible.


----------



## JFTDWS (15 November 2017)

Auslander said:



			I think we have enough people-bashing on here re shoeing/not shoeing, rugging/not rugging, etc etc - and I'm not thrilled to see another post that implies people are being cruel to their horses. Many many horses are happy to be stabled - some actively prefer it. Let's live and let live please.

Mine live out 24/7, incidentally...
		
Click to expand...

Indeed.  I wouldn't keep horses in 24/7, other than for short term necessity, and mine live out as much as possible.  We're on clay, on a livery yard (not huge acreage) but they're still living out.  Realistically, that won't last much longer - when the rain comes, inevitably, they'll come in at night until spring.  In this area, on clay, that's about the best I can do.  Wherever they are, I ensure they're appropriately exercised, fed and managed for their needs - there are plenty of folk out there whose horses are considerably less well kept, despite being chucked in a field 24/7 all year round...


----------



## TheMule (15 November 2017)

Duplicate post


----------



## Achinghips (15 November 2017)

nikicb said:



			I think you may need to re read her post in its entirety.  I don't think any of us disagree that a bit of hard standing is useful if you are able to have it, but the rest.....
		
Click to expand...

Ok, but she raises v good points. It's nice to see new contributors to the forum who bring further points for discussion, trouble is this forum jumps on people, new posters especially and unapologetically, I think. Not that she will probably post again after this, so who cares ....


----------



## TheMule (15 November 2017)

My horses live out because they are happy, healthy and settled. I have enough acreage for them to always have grass, space and natural shelter. I do have an area of hard standing with a huge field shelter for when the weather is at it's worst in the depths of winter and they will spend time shut on that overnight (last year for a total of 3 weeks)
I don't really agree with keeping horses in a 12 x 12 box. I understand that grazing is short in some parts of the country and therefore needs must but  I think we really need to look at a higher standard of welfare- including outdoor pens attached to every stable or keeping them in small groups in barns.


----------



## Achinghips (15 November 2017)

TheMule said:



			My horses live out because they are happy, healthy and settled. I have enough acreage for them to always have grass, space and natural shelter. I do have an area of hard standing with a huge field shelter for when the weather is at it's worst in the depths of winter and they will spend time shut on that overnight (last year for a total of 3 weeks)
I don't really agree with keeping horses in a 12 x 12 box. I understand that grazing is short in some parts of the country and therefore needs must but  I think we really need to look at a higher standard of welfare- including outdoor pens attached to every stable or keeping them in small groups in barns.
		
Click to expand...

My stables are 10.5 X 11 ... Unusable, for my big neds.


----------



## Sophstar (15 November 2017)

My youngster is living out 24/7 and the remaining members of the herd stay in their stable either through the day or overnight. Each to their own, i intend him staying out all winter unless he drops weight that I can't rectify with feeding. I've been introducing his stable to him by putting his feed in there so if in an emergency he had to stay in, it wouldn't be an entire new concept of staying in a stable. All depends on your yard and your horses needs. At my old yard, despite my previous 2 ponies having always lived out 24/7, the mud got so bad and deep, they well and truly appreciated a dry place to sleep and eat, it allowed their legs to dry off and gave me the opportunity to thoroughly check their legs for mud fever. Only because my ponies were so accepting of their muzzles and I was allowed to create a small bare paddock, was i able to keep them out 24/7 in summer. As long as the horse is happy i see no problem with using stables. A horse at my current yard lives in all day bar 4 hours turnout. No it's not how I would manage a horse but the horse appears content and the owner feels in control of dealing with the horse's issues.


----------



## Rosiejazzandpia (15 November 2017)

My horse lives out happily with a small herd. She comes into her stable twice a day for feeds and hay, but always wants to go back out with her mates. I would never stable a horse unless absolutley necessary, such as box rest, but even then I would make a grass pen.


----------



## DabDab (15 November 2017)

Achinghips said:



			Ok, but she raises v good points. It's nice to see new contributors to the forum who bring further points for discussion, trouble is this forum jumps on people, new posters especially and unapologetically, I think. Not that she will probably post again after this, so who cares ....
		
Click to expand...

But really is there any need? Horses are kept to a high standard in all sorts of different ways, and even if the OP doesn't believe that then the confrontational tone of their post is hardly likely to change people's minds...so all a bit pointless really, unless the intention was to rile people.

Lots of people keep horses without the use of stables, it is hardly a revolutionary concept. Mine have access to small paddocks out the back of their stables most of the time when they are in their stables rather than the main field. And while one would happily spend all her time outside, the other two are rather too fond of their creature comforts and appreciate the dry comfy bed, stacks of haylage and peace and quiet of their four walls. Like many people on here, I keep my horses how best keeps them happy, not only because I'm rather fond of them, but also because happy horses are a damn sight easier to deal with


----------



## Achinghips (15 November 2017)

DabDab said:



			But really is there any need? Horses are kept to a high standard in all sorts of different ways, and even if the OP doesn't believe that then the confrontational tone of their post is hardly likely to change people's minds...so all a bit pointless really, unless the intention was to rile people.

Lots of people keep horses without the use of stables, it is hardly a revolutionary concept. Mine have access to small paddocks out the back of their stables most of the time when they are in their stables rather than the main field. And while one would happily spend all her time outside, the other two are rather too fond of their creature comforts and appreciate the dry comfy bed, stacks of haylage and peace and quiet of their four walls. Like many people on here, I keep my horses how best keeps them happy, not only because I'm rather fond of them, but also because happy horses are a damn sight easier to deal with
		
Click to expand...

I didn't read it as confrontational, just someone with an opinion about over stabling. Trouble is many but not all, of course,  liveries these days don't offer enough turnout due to the fact they pack them in on the land to turn any type of profit. Livery prices are just too cheap for yard owners to survive, so I see why they do it.  Doesn't make it right though and I think it's something we should question.


----------



## Casey76 (16 November 2017)

Keeping a horse on hard standing is hardly natural either is it?

They can't dig or root around; it's not exactly an inviting (or giving) surface to roll and lie down.

Extremism in any view is bad.  Just because some people choose to stable for part of the day doesn't make them abusive.


----------



## windand rain (16 November 2017)

Dont think anyone including me who feels it is cruel suggested all horses should live out 24/7 regardless of health well being and costs to the welfare of the animal It is the livery yards who feel it is ok to stop all turnot for 6-8 months of the year because they have over stocked the land. In my ancient experience the damage to land is usually caused by horses that have been stable extensively careering about bucking and kicking in exuberance. Horses that spend longer hours outside do far less damage to land. I did say Iti s tolerable for a horse to be stabled overnight but not 24/7. If it is a livery rule for no turnout there will be some owners who do not ride their horses much or at all, those horses may well spend 23 or more hours in a cell all being a relatively comfortable one but I must admit I dont think I would like to eat sleep and spend 23 hours a day in a toilet. Yes anthropomorphism at its best but not a lot different for a flight animal


----------



## Achinghips (16 November 2017)

I think we all try our best with what we have. But there's no doubt about it ... stable vices are there for a reason. Ideally we would keep them in fields all the time and have enough land to go around.  I have rubber matting outside my stables to make hard standing easier on the old joints. I like the idea of opening up the manège for them though to give them a break from the stable and hard standing when my fields are too wet or if I've just overseeded, just want to know if I could muck it out or whether I'd lose half my surface over time ...


----------



## Rollin (16 November 2017)

I am lucky to have 30 acres, 6 field shelters and 15 loose boxes for 12 horses.  My horses LOVE their stables.  Those that are competing are already in at night, one stallion two brood mares a 2 year old CB and a 3 year old ShagyaxCB will come in at the beginning of December.  They get turnout for at least 6 hours per day in December and January.  They have deep straw beds, like to be with all their pals.  Our two stallions have boxes with talk grills so they can be nose to nose with a favourite mare.

In the summer when flies are about they will be at the gate by 10.00am begging to come in, even though they have field shelters.

I have someone coming to see my Shagya mare on Sunday, he is very persistent, he wants a Shagya already broken and competing, has not balked at her price(not cheap) but I may not sell her to him if he does not have the facilities to care for her that she is used to.  So many people ask "Why is your mare for sale still"  the reason she has to go to there right home.


----------



## cobgoblin (16 November 2017)

I can't really see what the discussion is here.

Most owners are bound by the rules of their livery yard and/or availability of land and stables.
For those of us lucky enough to have our horses at home then the methods of keeping them can be more driven by the horses preferences or the need to restrict grazing. Mine could live out all year round but in the summer they would be obese, hot and pestered by flies and in the winter they like a cosy nap.... That's fine by me.


----------



## Achinghips (16 November 2017)

One of my lads has copd, so can't be stabled. He just wouldn't cope in a stable, another of mine has arthritis and needs to move around and a third doesn't seem to mind her stable. I have seen DIY stables at livery with a small turnout pen attached to each stable, I remember the clay there was horrendous though ...


----------



## Cortez (16 November 2017)

There are plenty of horses that are out 24/7 that are not being cared for properly. Slopping around in mud is hardly fun, or indeed "natural". IF a horse is indeed being kept in 24 hours a day then that is not a good management system, but stabled horses should be getting adequate exercise, or indeed actual work....or at least they would be if kept by experienced horsemen. Part of managing horses is also land management, something that livery clients may not be acquainted with.


----------



## milliepops (16 November 2017)

cobgoblin said:



			I can't really see what the discussion is here.
		
Click to expand...

nor me.  I think most people(myself included) have probably joined the thread upon seeing emotive terms such as "cages" and "prisons"...


----------



## PonyIAmNotFood (16 November 2017)

I agree with the posters saying 24/7 turnout isn't necessarily the best thing, I've seen horses thrown in fields and ignored for 6 months until the weather is better. That's neglect, I think my horses who are in at night year round were happier than the ones down the road, left in knee deep clay mud with very poor grazing. Horses for courses, there's no where round me offers 24/7 turnout, the land doesn't allow it.


----------



## Crugeran Celt (16 November 2017)

Mine live out 24/7 with very good natural shelter but they do have access to their stables which they only use in the summer to get away from the flies. My stables need a bit of work and k am seriously considering taking them down to replace with a large shelter split into two instead. I wouldn't keep a horse if it had to be stabled for any length of time but I know plenty of people who do and one yard where horses are turned out for just an hour or two a day in a small menage the rest of the time in very small stables with just matting and no bedding. Wouldn't be right for my horses.


----------



## claireandnadia (16 November 2017)

We have fab grazing and we have the option to 24/7 turnout from May to October which un-restricted daily turnout during the winter. 
As a general rule, I like to keep out as much as poss during the summer but with 1 or 2 nights in a week and winter they are out from 7.30am to 6pm.
In a couple of years I'm planning on moving up to Lancashire where I am informed it is 24/7 IN during the winter. Can't say I am overjoyed at this but will have to see what I can find maybe slightly out of the area that offers daily turnout.


----------



## MagicMelon (16 November 2017)

Yes, I believe its stabling can be viewed as cruel in a lot of cases. Obviously there may be times when a horse must be stabled such as for veterinary reasons. But for people to stable for decent reason other than they dont have enough grazing or they think their horse prefers it etc. is wrong IMO. The size of stable is of big concern too, a 12x12 is tiny IMO for anything more than a small pony, then there's the fact that some horses cant even see out which must be the dullest thing on earth.  People seem to try to treat the vices that arise rather than realise the horse is screaming to be heard.  I hate that so many horsey people think its perfectly acceptable and almost normal to stable their horse especially for long periods. I wouldnt put a dog in a crate like that so I dont see why people find it acceptable to do that to a horse. I know people say they have no choice as no yards offer winter turnout etc. but in that case Im sorry but I wouldnt own a horse if I couldnt provide it with basic things like at least daily turnout and a chance to socialise with other horses.

I have always kept my horses at home. I had my stables built in my horses field so I can leave the doors open 24/7 and they just come and go as they please. I made sure the stables were also made bigger than usual ones (I think they're 18x19 if I remember. )If they want to be in, they come in, if they want to go out they go out. Its a basic system but one I find works and Ive never had a horse develop any weird behavioural issues or vices.


----------



## Goldenstar (16 November 2017)

Cortez said:



			There are plenty of horses that are out 24/7 that are not being cared for properly. Slopping around in mud is hardly fun, or indeed "natural". IF a horse is indeed being kept in 24 hours a day then that is not a good management system, but stabled horses should be getting adequate exercise, or indeed actual work....or at least they would be if kept by experienced horsemen. Part of managing horses is also land management, something that livery clients may not be acquainted with.
		
Click to expand...

I think you are wasting your time here .


----------



## cobgoblin (16 November 2017)

Goldenstar said:



			I think you are wasting your time here .
		
Click to expand...

I think we  are  all wasting our time here!


----------



## Achinghips (16 November 2017)

cobgoblin said:



			I think we  are  all wasting our time here!
		
Click to expand...

I don't. I find it interesting to hear how others keep their horses, having horses at home or accepting the way things are without questioning it, means you tend to live in a bubble sometimes....


----------



## cobgoblin (16 November 2017)

MagicMelon said:



			Yes, I believe its stabling can be viewed as cruel in a lot of cases. Obviously there may be times when a horse must be stabled such as for veterinary reasons. But for people to stable for decent reason other than they dont have enough grazing or they think their horse prefers it etc. is wrong IMO. .
		
Click to expand...

I'll tell that to mine the next time they are having a massive grump because they haven't been brought in for a few hours in their luxury 12x24 brick built stables.


----------



## Tiddlypom (16 November 2017)

Goodness, I must have really skimped when I put the new stables in. Two 12x 14s and a 12 x 16. Sometimes they have to stay in them overnight :eek3:.

Til I read this thread I didn't realise how cruel I was to my poor neds.


----------



## Achinghips (16 November 2017)

Tiddlypom said:



			Goodness, I must have really skimped when I put the new stables in. Two 12x 14s and a 12 x 16. Sometimes they have to stay in them overnight :eek3:.

Til I read this thread I didn't realise how cruel I was to my poor neds.
		
Click to expand...

Where does it say that stabling occasionally overnight in a 12 X 14 or 12 X 16 stable is cruel? Lot of extrapolation there!


----------



## Tiddlypom (16 November 2017)

Tongue in cheek reply to post #83, amongst others.


----------



## cobgoblin (16 November 2017)

Tiddlypom said:



			Goodness, I must have really skimped when I put the new stables in. Two 12x 14s and a 12 x 16. Sometimes they have to stay in them overnight :eek3:.

Til I read this thread I didn't realise how cruel I was to my poor neds.
		
Click to expand...


I reckon you're OK for a couple of minis


----------



## KittenInTheTree (16 November 2017)

Achinghips said:



			I think we all try our best with what we have. But there's no doubt about it ... stable vices are there for a reason. Ideally we would keep them in fields all the time and have enough land to go around.  I have rubber matting outside my stables to make hard standing easier on the old joints. I like the idea of opening up the manège for them though to give them a break from the stable and hard standing when my fields are too wet or if I've just overseeded, just want to know if I could muck it out or whether I'd lose half my surface over time ...
		
Click to expand...

From my experience of using a small outdoor school for emergency turnout, mucking out the arena shouldn't be a problem unless there are any runny droppings, in which case you'll probably be too busy worrying about what's wrong with the horse to care about the surface!


----------



## AdorableAlice (16 November 2017)

Well I am puzzled, nothing new I know.  How do all these free range horses remain fit, clean, keep their shoes on, and be able to compete when they are kept in a field.  I know it is not totally impossible but it must be a real struggle.  My youngsters do low level dressage off the field but all have a stable and are taught to live in or out as needed.

The prospect of catching a covered in SH 1T, horse in a muddy paddock to try and get it looking good enough to compete would by my idea of a nightmare.


----------



## splashgirl45 (16 November 2017)

there are some people on here who have their own land and can do what they think is right for their individual horses...lots of us are at DIY livery and pick the best we can find which is not too far away in case of emergency... if i  ever could afford to have may own place, my ideal would be unrestricted turn out with a large barn for shelter from bad weather or flies which they can access whenever they like.....i can dream!!!!!


----------



## TheMule (16 November 2017)

AdorableAlice said:



			Well I am puzzled, nothing new I know.  How do all these free range horses remain fit, clean, keep their shoes on, and be able to compete when they are kept in a field.  I know it is not totally impossible but it must be a real struggle.  My youngsters do low level dressage off the field but all have a stable and are taught to live in or out as needed.

The prospect of catching a covered in SH 1T, horse in a muddy paddock to try and get it looking good enough to compete would by my idea of a nightmare.
		
Click to expand...

I find that with enough land and good management the mud is minimal, a good turnout rug with a neck and a hosepipe do the cleaning and horses that live out keep fitter than those who live in. The time not spent mucking out, doing hay and water is spent riding instead- you gain time! 
When my mare was eventing we made it to an Intermediate in March. That was a bit of an effort though, the dark mornings do make early times a bit tricky though I can shut the horses on the hard standing if needed


----------



## Achinghips (16 November 2017)

AdorableAlice said:



			Well I am puzzled, nothing new I know.  How do all these free range horses remain fit, clean, keep their shoes on, and be able to compete when they are kept in a field.  I know it is not totally impossible but it must be a real struggle.  My youngsters do low level dressage off the field but all have a stable and are taught to live in or out as needed.

The prospect of catching a covered in SH 1T, horse in a muddy paddock to try and get it looking good enough to compete would by my idea of a nightmare.
		
Click to expand...

Free range horses? Lol imagines chickens .... I think theses free range horses are just horses in a field with access to some hard standing, maybe on a yard and or a shelter. Nothing special. That means you get minimal mud and therefore save time on field management, stable management, bringing them in and grooming. They keep themselves fitter than they would in elongated periods  stabled, especially if you keep the water source and additional feed on the yard too ....


----------



## JFTDWS (16 November 2017)

AdorableAlice said:



			Well I am puzzled, nothing new I know.  How do all these free range horses remain fit, clean, keep their shoes on, and be able to compete when they are kept in a field.  I know it is not totally impossible but it must be a real struggle.
		
Click to expand...

Field kept horses keep their fitness better than stabled horses - assuming a real field not a mud patch - and mine get worked as much as they would from stables anyway.  Mine don't wear shoes, so I don't worry about losing them.  They do need cleaning before competing in winter, but it's perfectly doable.  I've competed mine from the field for years - although I've never been hugely inclined to show at any great level.

I've no inclination to compete at the moment though.  They're all feral.


----------



## windand rain (17 November 2017)

I show my white pony from the field successfully  It is just a question of appropriate ruggng and a saved clean field for the night before I now have mud free land so it is easier but we were on knee deep clay and still managed to keep a clean bit for the night before a show mostly because the land was managed in such a way as to keep areas big enough for them to not cut it up too much I now am on sloping sandy land which has its problems too as the soil is orange


----------



## Achinghips (17 November 2017)

Well, I turned mine out into the yard and  left the arena gate open last night! Poo picking was easy as they went back to yard to do it! Can see where they all laid down in the sand and rubber like horsey snow angels! Brilliant, I will be doing that from now on! Don't know why I didn't think of it before! Might have to Harrow it a bit more often but I think they liked it !


----------



## Peter7917 (17 November 2017)

I'm not a fan of stabling. For a few reasons. That's not to say that I think they are cruel and indeed many horses seem to enjoy their stables.

I dislike routine. I know they say horses are routine animals however I personally think most horses are happier out of a routine. The stress of an owner turning up half an hour late for turnout, or all crowding the gate desperate to come in. I'm just not sure it's what's best for our animals. 

Ventilation. I find this a concern. I seem to suffer after having mucked out so can only assume it may have a similar affect on a horse who is in that environment for long periods. Sure we can use dust free bedding, haylage etc but I'm sure that can't be as good as being out. 

Lack of movement. I've seen horses in the past whose legs swell after having been in. That can't be good surely. 

Lack of socialisation. Seeing a horse in the next stable just isn't the same as having a gallop together or a bit of a groom.


----------



## MuddyMonster (17 November 2017)

I consider myself fortunate as my farm offers 24/7 turnout early March to mid/late November usually and November-March they are in overnight. 

It might not be perfect, but it's a lot better than some of the alternatives. At my old yard we had to stable all year round & had limited winter turn out in bad weather - plenty of yards near me have very limited turn out. 

My native is good doer and there are times I'll bring him in off the field though & he'll be stabled during Spring/Summer/Autumn if need be.There are the odd occassion it is easier to stable than turn out, so he might stay in.


----------



## Shooting Star (18 November 2017)

Me! 

I started with a field kept, tried lots of types of livery over the years having what I though were great facilities of stables, multiple schools, horse walkers etc. but now right back at the start without electricity or a school and I've never had happier horses or a happier me

No it wouldn't work on some soil types and I've done more than my fair share of years on heavy clay but now on sandy loam with hacking & schooling on grass miraculously I find my vet loving horse has given up his crush (and very expensive shoes!) and not on my nelly would I swap what I've got:biggrin3:


----------



## Goldenstar (18 November 2017)

AdorableAlice said:



			Well I am puzzled, nothing new I know.  How do all these free range horses remain fit, clean, keep their shoes on, and be able to compete when they are kept in a field.  I know it is not totally impossible but it must be a real struggle.  My youngsters do low level dressage off the field but all have a stable and are taught to live in or out as needed.

The prospect of catching a covered in SH 1T, horse in a muddy paddock to try and get it looking good enough to compete would by my idea of a nightmare.
		
Click to expand...

I have one who hunts out of the field and properly hunts he's field masters and does a bit of whipping in .
He's happier out and his bedding bills where £10 a day last time he was in in winter .
He's exercised like any hunter on non hunting days and on the day before hunting we bath him plait his tail hair and knot it up leave him in a box with a big bed for a roll and to dry then he wears a snuggy hood if it's muddy the night before .
In the morning we feed him on the hard standing as usual and one hour before we leave we catch him wash his legs towel dry him groom him etc tack up,on the truck and away . 
On return he's first in to the wash bay then in to a rolling box in one or two thermatexs we feed him he will usually decide after forty minutes or so he wants out he has a 'after hunting ' outside rug and a fleece that fits perfectly under it in that it does not slip back like most wicking rigs do . Out he goes with his food ATM I have others living out with him so it's a pain as I have to catch those as he likes to storm about having mouth fills of his hard food until it's all gone .
It's his third year of this , shortly he will be alone at night but he does not mind he has a shed which he does use in the worse weather he's a high energy person and this life suits him.
He was in plaster cross tied in a stall most last winter and he was very good although I did need to sedate him when the hounds where around .
He eats a huge amount of hard food three times as much as my others .
Funnily in sumner he's happy in the stable when I what him in autumn arrives the morning get a chill and then he flips to being an outside person .
I have a grey ID hunting out the field ATM as well thats harder work rains forecast for Monday I think he will come in the night before from then he's happy with that he's an easy person when the mud gets bad all but Mr outside will be in at night with turnout during the day .
I think it does not really save much work it just shifts it around a bit the biggest thing is once you are finished in the late afrternoon your finished no late night stables .


----------



## Achinghips (18 November 2017)

Goldenstar said:



			I have one who hunts out of the field and properly hunts he's field masters and does a bit of whipping in .
He's happier out and his bedding bills where £10 a day last time he was in in winter .
He's exercised like any hunter on non hunting days and on the day before hunting we bath him plait his tail hair and knot it up leave him in a box with a big bed for a roll and to dry then he wears a snuggy hood if it's muddy the night before .
In the morning we feed him on the hard standing as usual and one hour before we leave we catch him wash his legs towel dry him groom him etc tack up,on the truck and away . 
On return he's first in to the wash bay then in to a rolling box in one or two thermatexs we feed him he will usually decide after forty minutes or so he wants out he has a 'after hunting ' outside rug and a fleece that fits perfectly under it in that it does not slip back like most wicking rigs do . Out he goes with his food ATM I have others living out with him so it's a pain as I have to catch those as he likes to storm about having mouth fills of his hard food until it's all gone .
It's his third year of this , shortly he will be alone at night but he does not mind he has a shed which he does use in the worse weather he's a high energy person and this life suits him.
He was in plaster cross tied in a stall most last winter and he was very good although I did need to sedate him when the hounds where around .
He eats a huge amount of hard food three times as much as my others .
Funnily in sumner he's happy in the stable when I what him in autumn arrives the morning get a chill and then he flips to being an outside person .
I have a grey ID hunting out the field ATM as well thats harder work rains forecast for Monday I think he will come in the night before from then he's happy with that he's an easy person when the mud gets bad all but Mr outside will be in at night with turnout during the day .
I think it does not really save much work it just shifts it around a bit the biggest thing is once you are finished in the late afrternoon your finished no late night stables .
		
Click to expand...

You say in or out. Do you have a middle ground ie., hard standing? .... I think with tha lack of grazing in winter, this is becoming more needed now and more liveries are realising it. Mine love mooching about the yard where I put my round bale, my stables are a bit small anyway. It does save not only mud, but land compression too.


----------



## Goldenstar (18 November 2017)

Achinghips said:



			You say in or out. Do you have a middle ground ie., hard standing? .... I think with tha lack of grazing in winter, this is becoming more needed now and more liveries are realising it. Mine love mooching about the yard where I put my round bale, my stables are a bit small anyway. It does save not only mud, but land compression too.
		
Click to expand...

I won't use hardstanding to keep horses on unless they are say waiting for the farrier by next winter I will have a big shed 40 feet by 15 with either planeings or a old arena surface in front that will be great .they will have access to six acres from here .
I don't do horses standing about in small areas it's not healthy they need work and turnout with space to move to be in optimal health.


----------



## Hasdrubal (18 November 2017)

Our old boy lives out with a shelter and enjoys his life.
Sometimes we get him out to graze on our garden, which is the highlight of the year for him.


----------



## SEL (18 November 2017)

splashgirl45 said:



			there are some people on here who have their own land and can do what they think is right for their individual horses...lots of us are at DIY livery and pick the best we can find which is not too far away in case of emergency... if i  ever could afford to have may own place, my ideal would be unrestricted turn out with a large barn for shelter from bad weather or flies which they can access whenever they like.....i can dream!!!!!
		
Click to expand...

I share your dream! Lottery ticket bought for tonight....


----------



## Achinghips (18 November 2017)

Goldenstar said:



			I won't use hardstanding to keep horses on unless they are say waiting for the farrier by next winter I will have a big shed 40 feet by 15 with either planeings or a old arena surface in front that will be great .they will have access to six acres from here .
I don't do horses standing about in small areas it's not healthy they need work and turnout with space to move to be in optimal health.[/QUOTE
Yes, they so need space, yours sound very lucky. So many places these days have either in or out with only just enough space for them to turn around when they're 'in' and some places have them in all the time when they are off the fields ... Not healthy at all!
		
Click to expand...


----------



## meleeka (18 November 2017)

JFTD said:



			Indeed.  I wouldn't keep horses in 24/7, other than for short term necessity, and mine live out as much as possible.  We're on clay, on a livery yard (not huge acreage) but they're still living out.  Realistically, that won't last much longer - when the rain comes, inevitably, they'll come in at night until spring.  In this area, on clay, that's about the best I can do.  Wherever they are, I ensure they're appropriately exercised, fed and managed for their needs - there are plenty of folk out there whose horses are considerably less well kept, despite being chucked in a field 24/7 all year round...
		
Click to expand...

I agree with this. I have no problem with well cared for, well exercised horses spending time in a stable if thats the best the owner can provide. I do have a problem with horses kept in a stable day after day with no exercise and no freedom to be a horse. I also have a problem with horses chucked in a field and forgotten about.

Mine live out with access to stables. Sometimes my old girl likes to be shut In to get a break from the other one and have a proper rest. I dont mind either way so long as shes happy.


----------



## rachk89 (18 November 2017)

I would keep mine out in winter if he didn't lose weight too much, but he does. I actually wouldn't have a rug on him at the moment as he isn't clipped yet and it's not that cold yet for him, but he's grey and I refuse to turn up to find he's rolled in the muddiest patch he can find because he would.

He can't stay in 24/7 either, not even for injury. He needs to have other horses in or he'll go mad. That was a problem we need he had kissing spine but the vets were happy for him to recover in the field as they had seen his tantrums first hand at their stables. He has done it before though but the fields at that place had little grass so it benefited him to stay in for the hay. He knows the new place has lots of grass and he's better fed outside. He's not stupid haha.


----------



## Ambers Echo (18 November 2017)

I haven't read all 11 pages of this but I have had horses that like being out and horses that prefer being in. I used to believe they were happier and better off out. More natural innit.... Well natural does not necessarily mean desirable. Being hungry all winter is natural! If they have not yet overcome their instinctive aversion to being enclosed, then yes they will be stressed in. But all mine have long since adapted to being in. I  had the most nesh pony ever who HATED being out in the rain. He would try to plant on the way out if it was raining and refuse to go. Last winter there was a strangles outbreak and all 3 of mine had to live out in a quarantined herd 24/7 for 3 months. 1 was fine, the other 2 were utterly miserable.  They had adlib haylage, natural shelter and plenty of space. They very soon stopped playing and just stood there looking fed up. I used to have very strong ideas about what was right and wrong but sooner or later you'll meet  horses who haven't read the scripts or the books!


----------



## Goldenstar (18 November 2017)

No horse should ever be stabled without proper work / turnout unless there's a medical reason it must be restricted .
It's unacceptable.


----------



## Ambers Echo (28 November 2017)

Thought of this thread again today. My YO refused turn out as fields were too wet Sunday and Monday. On Saturday I loaded ponies and headed South for arena eventing but failed to make it due to deteriorating weather conditions - got turned back by police as accidents ahead. By the time we got back to the yard it was nearly dark and hideous weather so they went into their stables. So by this morning Amber had been in 2 days and the ponies for 3. Turned them out this morning. Amber bucked, hooned about, played. Max grazed. And Ginny stood by the gate. An hour later she was still stood by the gate having not moved at all! Lots of people in the past have told me that even horses who gate hang like being out - they are just creatures of routine so they gate hang at bringing in time. But this is not true of Ginny. She's not waiting to come in through habit, she just doesn't really want to be out in the first place! So this is a 5 year old pony who has never lived in before. She was pretty poor when she came to me a couple of months ago and I think having tried the 'natural' life and then having experienced indoor life she is making her preferences clear! I have left her out -it's sunny, she needs to stretch her legs and have a roll and a mooch.  But I felt guilty about it proving to myself that frankly with horses I can never win..... I will ALWAYS feel guilty about something or other. In too long, out too long, under rugged, over rugged, worked too hard, not worked enough, too fat, too thin!! Basically I don't really think there are any hard and fast rules about what horses prefer or what is better for them. They are all different and there are many ways to manage horses. And if all else fails, ask the horse.


----------



## Cortez (28 November 2017)

Ambers Echo said:



			Thought of this thread again today. My YO refused turn out as fields were too wet Sunday and Monday. On Saturday I loaded ponies and headed South for arena eventing but failed to make it due to deteriorating weather conditions - got turned back by police as accidents ahead. By the time we got back to the yard it was nearly dark and hideous weather so they went into their stables. So by this morning Amber had been in 2 days and the ponies for 3. Turned them out this morning. Amber bucked, hooned about, played. Max grazed. And Ginny stood by the gate. An hour later she was still stood by the gate having not moved at all! Lots of people in the past have told me that even horses who gate hang like being out - they are just creatures of routine so they gate hang at bringing in time. But this is not true of Ginny. She's not waiting to come in through habit, she just doesn't really want to be out in the first place! So this is a 5 year old pony who has never lived in before. She was pretty poor when she came to me a couple of months ago and I think having tried the 'natural' life and then having experienced indoor life she is making her preferences clear! I have left her out -it's sunny, she needs to stretch her legs and have a roll and a mooch.  But I felt guilty about it proving to myself that frankly with horses I can never win..... I will ALWAYS feel guilty about something or other. In too long, out too long, under rugged, over rugged, worked too hard, not worked enough, too fat, too thin!! Basically I don't really think there are any hard and fast rules about what horses prefer or what is better for them. They are all different and there are many ways to manage horses. And if all else fails, ask the horse.
		
Click to expand...

This is the most sensible post on this thread. (Apart from you feeling guilty - that's not sensible at all).


----------



## Ambers Echo (28 November 2017)

Haha. I know the guilt is irrational. But I just can't help it - especially with so many people  around happily telling you whatever choice you make is wrong or cruel!!


----------



## eatmyshorts (28 November 2017)

Mine two old retired boys live out 24/7, & always have. My cob gets very grumpy when stabled (even just at night) & my TB ex-racer box walks like a caged tiger. I've always found, even when in work, they are more settled living out.


----------



## SEL (28 November 2017)

Well I'm feeling guilty about one of mine. Despite the fact he's got the coat of a polar bear he was enjoying his evening routine of coming in and stuffing his face full of hay. Sadly his job is to supervise my mare who needs to be out for the next 2 weeks. She's happy, but he looks a bit sad at bringing in time when he realises it's another night out in the cold with stroppy mare stealing all the hay.


----------



## laura_nash (28 November 2017)

I don't stable, but that is because mine has a dust allergy and is much healthier out and my pony's main job is to keep him company.  Its not a philosophical decision.  I have known horses that are genuinely happier stabled (with some turnout and daily exercise), and a small group of perfectly happy horses who were stabled 24/7 but in heavy work.  Mine is happy either way providing he has food, the pony would probably prefer to be partly stabled in bad weather, he tends to be the one hanging out in the shelter of a tree, but then he wouldn't be doing his job.


----------



## southerncomfort (29 November 2017)

Mine have always lived out 24/7.  I had a stable to use in emergencies but never needed it and both girls were a bit stable-phobic.

We've now moved and I have just under 3 acres for the 2 girls but the weather is a bit wild up here at times.  I've started yarding them at night with free access to the stables and they have decided stables are brilliant and in fact one of them is very eager to come in at night now!  I'm pleased because I think it's important that horses are happy to spend time in a stable in case of future injury or illness.

My land is quite wet and I've decided to turn them out in the arena on wet days to save the land.

I don't have a problem with stabling overnight or during the day but I don't think any horse should be stabled 24/7 except in exceptional circumstances.


----------

