# Rearing 5 year old ex race horse :/



## Keeky (17 October 2011)

SO MANY different views on it!
Yesterday this horse was incredible! Today, he was HORRIBLE I actually just got off after about 6 times of ignoring what I asked him to do. There was another horse in the indoor school with us which didn't help and a lot of wind!
How do I stop him rearing?
I think he's doing it to be stubborn because yesterday he understood all the transitions I was getting him to do etc.
But today he was being plain stubborn and he will NOT get away with it again!
How do I stop him rearing without irritatingly kicking and clicking which is what usually makes it worse in most cases!?
A teacher on the yard is telling me to send him back but what do you expect in an ex race horse? Especially at the age of 5. He has the SWEETEST personality too!
Also, he's in a de gogue, good idea to leave this off for a while? Or will it not make a difference?


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## be positive (17 October 2011)

How long has he been out of training and in a new way of working, he could be struggling to adapt to using himself in a different way, if he worked well yesterday he may have been sore today, not being stubborn just finding it tough. Most exracers need to build up very steadily allowing their bodies and brains time to adjust, lots of hacking and working long and low to start to stretch and build up a topline.
 I would not want to work in a degogue every day, he will find it too much and possibly continue to try and get away from it, hence the rearing, maybe some lunging in it to get him going forward.


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## Keeky (17 October 2011)

be positive said:



			How long has he been out of training and in a new way of working, he could be struggling to adapt to using himself in a different way, if he worked well yesterday he may have been sore today, not being stubborn just finding it tough. Most exracers need to build up very steadily allowing their bodies and brains time to adjust, lots of hacking and working long and low to start to stretch and build up a topline.
 I would not want to work in a degogue every day, he will find it too much and possibly continue to try and get away from it, hence the rearing, maybe some lunging in it to get him going forward.
		
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Yeah you're very right! I can't expect him to be good everyday! It's the fact i think I got him round ONE 20m circle and still then he had a few rears! I've only used the de gogue once and that was yesterday and so used it today but you're right, think it's too much for him so maybe even just once a week putting it on?
It's amazing for topline! Then again he reared the second time I rode him after buying him! Although the saddle was a bad fit, we were also in the wind when that hurricane came, I think it's building his confidence and definately what you've said! It's getting to understand them isn't it?


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## Archiepoo (17 October 2011)

mmmm rearing in tbs usually because ur holding the front in too much ie degogue. try him without any gadgets and just a plain snaffle and plenty of rein- ex racers really dont like being held in too much contact until theyre less hollow. good luck.x


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## Gingerwitch (17 October 2011)

If he has only just come out of training then you have just turned everything he knows on its head - racing - he is only being taught to go fast in one pace, now you are asking him to shorten carry you in a different position, do different things and tbh you will get nowhere if you dont have a calm, steady and methodical approach.

TB's are as sensative as they come, they are quick to learn and that is both the wrong thing to do and the right thing to do.

Please dont go through a whole host of gadgets you will just frazzle his brain, and if you dont have the time and skill to work with this noble, quick thinking animal, then for his sake send him back.


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## Keeky (17 October 2011)

Gingerwitch said:



			If he has only just come out of training then you have just turned everything he knows on its head - racing - he is only being taught to go fast in one pace, now you are asking him to shorten carry you in a different position, do different things and tbh you will get nowhere if you dont have a calm, steady and methodical approach.

TB's are as sensative as they come, they are quick to learn and that is both the wrong thing to do and the right thing to do.

Please dont go through a whole host of gadgets you will just frazzle his brain, and if you dont have the time and skill to work with this noble, quick thinking animal, then for his sake send him back.
		
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ERRRR Was actually recommended them in the shop for the fact they don't strap their heads down unlike draw reins. They relax their head into a long and low position working on a pully system of rope. & Excuse me I've taken a year out of college just for him so I do have the time. & He had his 6 months off and came back into work with previous trainers who didn't have time for him so yeah great idea I'll send him back (Y)


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## cluedo (17 October 2011)

Keeky said:



			ERRRR Was actually recommended them in the shop for the fact they don't strap their heads down unlike draw reins. They relax their head into a long and low position working on a pully system of rope. & Excuse me I've taken a year out of college just for him so I do have the time. & He had his 6 months off and came back into work with previous trainers who didn't have time for him so yeah great idea I'll send him back (Y)
		
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Even though he has had 6 months off it will mean he has no muscle tone and certainly not enough to work hard schooling AND in a gadget.  Take the damn thing off,  and do a fittening programme that SLOWLY brings him fit and gets his muscles in the right place.  Have you done his teeth, checked his back etc etc before doing all of this.

And, sorry if this is harsh, if you can't take your time then yes send him back.


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## Foxhunter49 (17 October 2011)

The thing is with either the De Gogue or the Chambon is that although they are good training aids in the right hands and the right situation, they are all to often misused and will often give a horse a reason to fight because they do not understand what is alien to them

Take off all gadgets, get him working in a relaxed manner and long and low. With the ex racehorse you are not only training him to use himself correctly but altering his mental attitude too. 

If he has a rearing fit then do nothing, if he goes up just sit on him (going forward when he does go up) do not kick him to go forward, try to turn him or hit him. Just sit him out . He will get tired way before you do and when he wants to go forward make him wait for a few moments and then ask him to go when you want and not when he wants and continue  as if nothing has happened. He will soon realise that it is all wasted energy.

Please, for your sake and the horse's do not use any gadgets for several months and then only when he is able to use his back and engage his back end correctly

Shops will recommend all sorts of things 0 they are in the market for selling!


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## Keeky (17 October 2011)

Foxhunter49 said:



			The thing is with either the De Gogue or the Chambon is that although they are good training aids in the right hands and the right situation, they are all to often misused and will often give a horse a reason to fight because they do not understand what is alien to them

Take off all gadgets, get him working in a relaxed manner and long and low. With the ex racehorse you are not only training him to use himself correctly but altering his mental attitude too. 

If he has a rearing fit then do nothing, if he goes up just sit on him (going forward when he does go up) do not kick him to go forward, try to turn him or hit him. Just sit him out . He will get tired way before you do and when he wants to go forward make him wait for a few moments and then ask him to go when you want and not when he wants and continue  as if nothing has happened. He will soon realise that it is all wasted energy.

Please, for your sake and the horse's do not use any gadgets for several months and then only when he is able to use his back and engage his back end correctly

Shops will recommend all sorts of things 0 they are in the market for selling!
		
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Greattt advise  Thank you!
Well she said to us that she was completely anti-gadget but me and a friend who has also ridden him originally went to change his bit because we felt like we had hold of nothing it was just the strangest feeling riding him until we put on this pully system gadget so she said it was the kindest type of gadget and explained it so clearly to us but you are right, I'll lay off the gadgets for a while! He's still young and there is absolutely no rush! Thank youu!


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## Keeky (17 October 2011)

cluedo said:



			Even though he has had 6 months off it will mean he has no muscle tone and certainly not enough to work hard schooling AND in a gadget.  Take the damn thing off,  and do a fittening programme that SLOWLY brings him fit and gets his muscles in the right place.  Have you done his teeth, checked his back etc etc before doing all of this.

And, sorry if this is harsh, if you can't take your time then yes send him back.
		
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He's been back in work for about a ear btw The previous owners had just been hacking him though due to facilities and stuff but I've just bought him onto a livery yard!
I don't plan to put it back on until the baby is out of him, I can't imagine it would go down nicely if he continues to rear with that thing on..
He had them done in June and was planning it 6 months from then when previous owners had him done but seems like it's worth checking again!


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## olivia_deane (17 October 2011)

been there, done that... haha. New yard, what can i say ten years of TB's... sounds like he needs a good long hack, and a bit of wearing out! All mine are fab for a few days then begin to feel too well with all the fuss love feed and new surroundings and this sweet little tb (that was secretly underfed and worn out!) suddenly decides he no longer wants to try any thing new (gadgeted or otherwise!) and stubborn kicks in. Unfortunately i have never met many horses who can be argued into submission, so go on a nice long hack and wind both of you down, also try the de gogue back on first time for a short hack, i have one always goes best in draw reins on a hack... if i use them in the school he thinks too much about it and tense normally ensues!! Dont worry about people telling you to have more patience, its only natural that you want to get started on transforming him into the best horse he can be, and im sure that you will... so yeah... cut a tiny bit of feed (dont want too many bones!!) and wear him out ... hope this helps,
Screw loose equine xx


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## Keeky (18 October 2011)

olivia_deane said:



			been there, done that... haha. New yard, what can i say ten years of TB's... sounds like he needs a good long hack, and a bit of wearing out! All mine are fab for a few days then begin to feel too well with all the fuss love feed and new surroundings and this sweet little tb (that was secretly underfed and worn out!) suddenly decides he no longer wants to try any thing new (gadgeted or otherwise!) and stubborn kicks in. Unfortunately i have never met many horses who can be argued into submission, so go on a nice long hack and wind both of you down, also try the de gogue back on first time for a short hack, i have one always goes best in draw reins on a hack... if i use them in the school he thinks too much about it and tense normally ensues!! Dont worry about people telling you to have more patience, its only natural that you want to get started on transforming him into the best horse he can be, and im sure that you will... so yeah... cut a tiny bit of feed (dont want too many bones!!) and wear him out ... hope this helps,
Screw loose equine xx
		
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As soon as I saw the "been there, done that" I thought THANK GOD! Hahahaha!
yeah definately think I will try and get him out today for a hack!
Didn't help that another horse was in the school also cantering past us and it was a little windy even in the indoor school!?
What so give him less feed?x


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## Amymay (18 October 2011)

Sounds like you have a sensative little horse, that's going to need careful handling.

Get yourself some help from someone who has experience with ex-racehorses and go from there.

I'd also throw the de-gogue in the bin.


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## Miss L Toe (18 October 2011)

If he has been hacking and not rearing for a year, I think that says everything, don't try to ride him like a schooled horse, work with him and ask him to do a bit of work over a longer period of time, I don't know why you decided he needed gadgets, but to be honest, in racing we did occasionally have to re-educated horses which were sent to use and had only been raced, not trained, they were kept in standard loose ringed bit and irish martingale, and in the right hands did very well. 

Go back to long reining if you want to make the mouth, gridwork and tiny loose jumping.
Remember that the racehorse training people use excellent riders, and spend a ninimum of three months with their horses,  many take a year, you are asking him to use different muscle groups and do everything differently, he has got confused and as you are holding on to his head he has nowhere to go but up or back,......... I know what you are going to say.. but this is his reaction to his current situation.


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## Elf On A Shelf (18 October 2011)

Get rid of the gadget, forget about purely schooling in the school and go out hacking. If hacking is all he has known for a while then take him out, work on his outline and schooling whilst out and about and maybe do ten mins in the school after you come back a couple of days a week just to let him understand that work can be done in a confined space as well. 

The best way to work through rearing is to keep them going forwards. If you think they are going to stop and go up then kick them on to a trot or a canter. TB's are highly intelligent so do different things every day. Rather than going round and round in circles in the school how about chucking some trotting poles about, teach him to jump if he doesn't know how to already. With my nappy retired race horse I bung loads of stuff out, buckets, poles, flower pots, shetlands and when he gets bored of working we go play with them. He has got mounted games and round up the ponies down to a tee. It lets him unwind and have fun. We then do 5 more mins of work before calling it a day. 

Unless you are really struggling or lose your confidence in him then I wouldn't give him up. It will be so rewarding when he turns into the horse you would like him to be.


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## Miss L Toe (18 October 2011)

EKW said:



			Get rid of the gadget, forget about purely schooling in the school and go out hacking. If hacking is all he has known for a while then take him out, work on his outline and schooling whilst out and about and maybe do ten mins in the school after you come back a couple of days a week just to let him understand that work can be done in a confined space as well. 
Unless you are really struggling or lose your confidence in him then I wouldn't give him up. It will be so rewarding when he turns into the horse you would like him to be.
		
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Good advice, do not proceed with schooling unless you have an instructor on the ground to help you, I mean someone with a breadth of experience not some one who has her AI riding schooled horses, you have plenty of time, so use it wisely.


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## charlie76 (18 October 2011)

I think you need to firstly stop worrying about the outline for the time being. Think about the rhythm of the gaits to start with and make sure he is working forward from the aids. Only then when he is happy to walk, trot, canter, start and stop without a fuss, should you then start introducing school movements such as circles, loops and serpentines to get him round the inside leg and more supple, then you can start address the outline but to be honest, once you have the basics established then this should be easy.
From what I can read of your post and the use of the de gouge, you are quite focused on where his head is, at the moment, this is the least of your worries, acceptance of the aids needs to be the first thought in your mind. 
Many racehorses do not accept the legs aids when schooling to start with and they come behind the leg, which is what it sounds like yours is doing. If the hand is too busy trying to create an outline ( or in this case a de gouge) and the horse is not forward then the only way is up!
I would also do a lot of long reining and lunging to get him thinking forward. On the lunge just use normal, non elastic side reins to start with to get him to accept a contact. He will prob not understand at first but perserve.Have the side reins adjusted so there is a contact but no so tight that he feels restricted.
If he is fine out hacking, use this time to work on getting him to stretch rather than tackling it in the arena and causing a head on fight.


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## olivia_deane (18 October 2011)

Keeky said:



			As soon as I saw the "been there, done that" I thought THANK GOD! Hahahaha!
yeah definately think I will try and get him out today for a hack!
Didn't help that another horse was in the school also cantering past us and it was a little windy even in the indoor school!?
What so give him less feed?x
		
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yeah, try a little less or if hes on a mix i cut that for conditioning cubes/high fibre cubes. The very hot ones that still need to gain weight get their hard feed replaced by a cup of dried calf's milk or soya oil (the milk works better but cost about 20 a bag!!) but yes, it will be so worth it ....
P.S. my intermediate event horse still throws the dolly out the pram occasionally when schooling ... he might always be a bit tricky! but hey gotta have something about them!!


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## Keeky (18 October 2011)

MrsD123 said:



			Good advice, do not proceed with schooling unless you have an instructor on the ground to help you, I mean someone with a breadth of experience not some one who has her AI riding schooled horses, you have plenty of time, so use it wisely.
		
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You all need to calm it a bit, everytime I ride, a friend that just sold her retrained ex race horse helps me & everyone has sworn by the de gogue you can't really comment on that gadget yourselves until you actually know what it does tbh! Just like you can't comment on why my horse is behaving this way:/ Simply asked how to stop him. He was fine the today in them and the other time we used them which was the first time, yesterday was because some idiot was cantering round and round past my wound up 5 year old!


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## Keeky (18 October 2011)

EKW said:



			Get rid of the gadget, forget about purely schooling in the school and go out hacking. If hacking is all he has known for a while then take him out, work on his outline and schooling whilst out and about and maybe do ten mins in the school after you come back a couple of days a week just to let him understand that work can be done in a confined space as well. 

The best way to work through rearing is to keep them going forwards. If you think they are going to stop and go up then kick them on to a trot or a canter. TB's are highly intelligent so do different things every day. Rather than going round and round in circles in the school how about chucking some trotting poles about, teach him to jump if he doesn't know how to already. With my nappy retired race horse I bung loads of stuff out, buckets, poles, flower pots, shetlands and when he gets bored of working we go play with them. He has got mounted games and round up the ponies down to a tee. It lets him unwind and have fun. We then do 5 more mins of work before calling it a day. 

Unless you are really struggling or lose your confidence in him then I wouldn't give him up. It will be so rewarding when he turns into the horse you would like him to be.
		
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Hahaha I love this comment!! "Shetlands"
Yeah will definately try things like that! I can't wait to see him go over some trotting poles, will be the funniest thing he'll probably leap over all three of them hahaha!
Thanks for this comment will definately try it all out 
He was great today so just see what tomorrow brings, maybe take him on a nice long relaxing hack!?
The thing with retraining them is that it's hot and cold!
The thing I worked on today was pushing him forward and he only tried it once but I made him get on with it and he was perfect!
Is yours now retarained etc?
Ofcourse I won't give up, there would have been no point of EVER thinking about getting an ex race horse in the first place!
Trick is to be much softer than in your hands than on a regular school horse or anything!
x


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## Keeky (18 October 2011)

olivia_deane said:



			yeah, try a little less or if hes on a mix i cut that for conditioning cubes/high fibre cubes. The very hot ones that still need to gain weight get their hard feed replaced by a cup of dried calf's milk or soya oil (the milk works better but cost about 20 a bag!!) but yes, it will be so worth it ....
P.S. my intermediate event horse still throws the dolly out the pram occasionally when schooling ... he might always be a bit tricky! but hey gotta have something about them!!
		
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Yeahhh when you learn to trust them, you get over it all and it becomes a bundle of fun hahaha! Like his little hops have become quite fun!
He's literally just on Alfa A and high fibre nuts, he takes water out of his water drinker if he feels the need to soak it some days hahahah! Funny animals they are x


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## AengusOg (18 October 2011)

Keeky said:



			You all need to calm it a bit, everytime I ride, a friend that just sold her retrained ex race horse helps me & everyone has sworn by the de gogue you can't really comment on that gadget yourselves until you actually know what it does tbh! Just like you can't comment on why my horse is behaving this way:/ Simply asked how to stop him. He was fine the today in them and the other time we used them which was the first time, yesterday was because some idiot was cantering round and round past my wound up 5 year old!
		
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You simply asked how to stop him rearing, eh? Why, then, do you throw your toys out of the pram when you get sound advice?

Most people know why your horse is behaving the way he is, and most are too polite to tell you where you are going wrong. It's nothing to do with 'some idiot', it's because you are asking too much of a young horse which was bred to race and not to be held in and schooled before he is ready in his mind and body.

Send the horse back and sell your gadgets, and ask yourself why you would want a tb.


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## Gingerwitch (18 October 2011)

And we wonder why tb's have a bad reputation...... poor blighters


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## charlie76 (18 October 2011)

What a Very strange response. I have successfully Really trained our ex racer from the track to gaining over 70% in all his dressage tests and winning his first ode. He is well schooled and well mannered and anyone's ride.  If You ask for advice then have the good grace To be polite! If you don't want it. Crack on with what you doing and stop moaning about his behaviour.  
Sort out your own self made issues! Grrrrrr. Some people!


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## charlie76 (18 October 2011)

Meant retrained.  Stupid phone!


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## Piaffe63 (18 October 2011)

I heard somewhere to have a person on the ground waiting for the horse to rear, before touching the belly with a damp towel? Dont know if this would work because he is only five but its only a suggestion?


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## katherine1975 (18 October 2011)

Search for endospink on youtube, he rides race horses and is amazing!


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## kirstyl (18 October 2011)

charlie76 said:



			Meant retrained.  Stupid phone!
		
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I actually like 'really trained'. Because that's what horses should be, not cobbled together with gadgets and 'touched on the belly with a damp towel' if they resist and rear. I am reading this in disbelief


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## olivia_deane (18 October 2011)

gees, wish everyone wouldn't jump on the "she's not capable" band wagon!! There is a difference between sounds advice, encouragement and "OH MY GOD, A DE GOGUE SHE'S CRUEL, SHE'S RUSHING THINGS, OH MY GOD SAVE THAT HORSE"... cause guys, she just wanted some ideas!!.. she's obviously pretty prepared for what to expect, and if shes not shes on here aksing, trying to do her best, both horse and rider will learn with time, and the horse isn't going to break in the interim...

rant over... phew... just actually wanted to post a funny video of my tb when i first bought him that you made me thik of when you said jump all trotting poles at once ... you only need watch the first ten secs ... PS ignore riding!! haha i learnt with  him (and nope... he didnt break)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGcTC4ZrDZM


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## Gingerwitch (18 October 2011)

Is it half term somewhere ?


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## hopppydi (18 October 2011)

I dont post on here very often but have an ex racer myself so always take the time to read posts like this. Maybe ive had a bad day or am feeling hormonal but i have got to say this...you are so annoying and i am so pleased my beautiful, kind spirited horse didnt end up with you.
No point trying to give advice as clearly you dont need it...if you cant figure out why a 5 year old of any breed in a new home being schooled in the manner you have  described, blowing a gale and a horse cantering around him then i think you need to send him back before you ruin what will probably be a fantastic horse in the right hands.
And now im gonnna watch Mary Portas!


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## kirstyl (18 October 2011)

hopppydi said:



			I dont post on here very often but have an ex racer myself so always take the time to read posts like this. Maybe ive had a bad day or am feeling hormonal but i have got to say this...you are so annoying and i am so pleased my beautiful, kind spirited horse didnt end up with you.
No point trying to give advice as clearly you dont need it...if you cant figure out why a 5 year old of any breed in a new home being schooled in the manner you have  described, blowing a gale and a horse cantering around him then i think you need to send him back before you ruin what will probably be a fantastic horse in the right hands.
And now im gonnna watch Mary Portas!
		
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Well said. And I'm off for Mary's wise words too


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## Keeky (18 October 2011)

AengusOg said:



			You simply asked how to stop him rearing, eh? Why, then, do you throw your toys out of the pram when you get sound advice?

Most people know why your horse is behaving the way he is, and most are too polite to tell you where you are going wrong. It's nothing to do with 'some idiot', it's because you are asking too much of a young horse which was bred to race and not to be held in and schooled before he is ready in his mind and body.

Send the horse back and sell your gadgets, and ask yourself why you would want a tb.
		
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HAHAHAHA A de gogue doesn't hold his head in, it teaches him to relax down, i don't recall his nose being tucked in or his neck strapped down at all actually.
I think you know exactly what winds be up which is exactly why that comment was written. I asked for advise not critisism. The fact he has been perfect twice with it on and only once with it on was he rearing tells you it's not the gadgets. He was also rearing when I tried him out dear so don't jump to conclusions  I simply asked how to stop him, it's not rocket science.
Nahhh I'll keep the horse and the gadget thankssssssssssssss 
Ask yourself why would you get into an argument with me cause I'll win! (Y)


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## Keeky (18 October 2011)

olivia_deane said:



			gees, wish everyone wouldn't jump on the "she's not capable" band wagon!! There is a difference between sounds advice, encouragement and "OH MY GOD, A DE GOGUE SHE'S CRUEL, SHE'S RUSHING THINGS, OH MY GOD SAVE THAT HORSE"... cause guys, she just wanted some ideas!!.. she's obviously pretty prepared for what to expect, and if shes not shes on here aksing, trying to do her best, both horse and rider will learn with time, and the horse isn't going to break in the interim...

rant over... phew... just actually wanted to post a funny video of my tb when i first bought him that you made me thik of when you said jump all trotting poles at once ... you only need watch the first ten secs ... PS ignore riding!! haha i learnt with  him (and nope... he didnt break)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGcTC4ZrDZM

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hahahahaha amazing! THANKS YOU BABE!
People on here are just SO SNOBBY AND WRONG. The old owners even told me to put the de gogue on!
Don't even know my circumstances and I even state I think it's best to take them off but no those two words "de gogue" I'm a crueeeel cow!
OOO I'll subscribe to youuu 
The fact he was perfeccct today says it all really


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## Keeky (18 October 2011)

hopppydi said:



			I dont post on here very often but have an ex racer myself so always take the time to read posts like this. Maybe ive had a bad day or am feeling hormonal but i have got to say this...you are so annoying and i am so pleased my beautiful, kind spirited horse didnt end up with you.
No point trying to give advice as clearly you dont need it...if you cant figure out why a 5 year old of any breed in a new home being schooled in the manner you have  described, blowing a gale and a horse cantering around him then i think you need to send him back before you ruin what will probably be a fantastic horse in the right hands.
And now im gonnna watch Mary Portas!
		
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Sooooo I'm on a yard for training youngsters. My instructor that events has told me to use a de gogue which doesn't strap his head down and your bitchy comment is totally irrelevant. I'll take advise but not off snobs like you and your nasty comments. Don't post on my threads if you're going to write things like that! You can SEE why I get angry when things like THAT are said!


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## Gingerwitch (18 October 2011)

Oh where's the bridge......

clip clop went billy goat gruff


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## charlie76 (18 October 2011)

The simple answer of how to stop him rearing is to retrain him correctly. 
And before you ask, yes,  I do know how a de gouge works!  I also re school rearers on a regular occasion and the last thing You would do with a rearer is strap its head in with no way out. I Would even go as far as suggesting draw reins than any gadget that cannot be released
. 
The way you are going You are,  at some point, going to have him come over on you.
What I can't understand is the point of your original post as you are obviously so knowledgable?! 
Bizarre


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## charlie76 (18 October 2011)

My last suggestion is to learn the scales if training.  You seem to have missed most out?


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## charlie76 (18 October 2011)

Scales OF training


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## charlie76 (18 October 2011)

Wasn't that you tube video posted by some one else the other day?


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## hopppydi (18 October 2011)

Keeky said:



			Sooooo I'm on a yard for training youngsters. My instructor that events has told me to use a de gogue which doesn't strap his head down and your bitchy comment is totally irrelevant. I'll take advise but not off snobs like you and your nasty comments. Don't post on my threads if you're going to write things like that! You can SEE why I get angry when things like THAT are said!
		
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Oh get over yourself...do you have an issue with your socio-economic classification? And just to clarify i didnt mention the de gogue or strapping his head down. Also I have had it confirmed by my butler and maid that i am defo not a snob so there


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## Keeky (18 October 2011)

charlie76 said:



			Wasn't that you tube video posted by some one else the other day?
		
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wtf you're still posting -_-
His old owners told me to put it on. & Seriously if you read the original post properly "best to take them off while he's rearing" i could literally explodeeee at the comments i've had responded to me in this forum!
You all sound about 10! Ok my patience may be short with rude critisism but reallllllly!? Telling me to send my horse back and basically calling me a crap rider is just hilair! You cannot judge just by a de gogue because he was perfect in it today!
Oh thanks my horse is gonna come down on top of me  
Have you asked how big hes gone up with me? 
How much he does it?
Was it a one off?
Did I have the de gogue on sinse?
hmmmmm nah!


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## Gingerwitch (18 October 2011)

Can you make your mind up with exactly whom recomended the "gadget" .... the lady at the shop or your boss??? 

bit confused, but then snobby stuck up ejits usually do get confused when they read such a load of conflicting information.

God if i am this confused lord help the poor horse - if it even exists - and i really hope it does not


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## missyme10 (18 October 2011)

Haha, its been a tad boring on here lately


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## Keeky (18 October 2011)

Gingerwitch said:



			Can you make your mind up with exactly whom recomended the "gadget" .... the lady at the shop or your boss??? 

bit confused, but then snobby stuck up ejits usually do get confused when they read such a load of conflicting information.

God if i am this confused lord help the poor horse - if it even exists - and i really hope it does not
		
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You really are a witch aren't you


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## Gingerwitch (18 October 2011)

Yes but my horse does not rear or i would turn it into a poisonous crettin - did you rear often in your previous life?


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## charlie76 (18 October 2011)

Do You know what... I haven't spent time and effort becoming the person I am in the equestrian world to Have time for silly little people like you. Yes,carry on the way You are going and he will come over on You, gadget or no gadgets.  
To be perfectly blunt who cares if he does. Your horse, ruin it how you like. Good luck!


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## Merry Crisis (18 October 2011)

Keeky said:



			You really are a witch aren't you 

Click to expand...

And you really are a brat! Now piss off!


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## Gingerwitch (18 October 2011)

Thanks lionman that made me giggle


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## Keeky (18 October 2011)

Gingerwitch said:



			Can you make your mind up with exactly whom recomended the "gadget" .... the lady at the shop or your boss??? 

bit confused, but then snobby stuck up ejits usually do get confused when they read such a load of conflicting information.

God if i am this confused lord help the poor horse - if it even exists - and i really hope it does not
		
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& it means lotssss of people are reccomending it? USUALLY?
I'm going by what I'm being reccomended to do. Some horses take it and some don't. & i don't think I posted in this forum asking about gadgets?? Just as I recall.

Yeah I think the horse understands what I'm asking, it's just a matter of using his brain really and most people do that quite well


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## Keeky (18 October 2011)

lionman said:



			And you really are a brat! Now piss off!
		
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This is a post that i started so you piss off! You've just scraped in here from nowhere now is the time to scrape back out and that wasn't funny it was an awful comeback. Something you need to work on


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## Lolo (18 October 2011)

See, Reg threatens to go up on occasion. Had him 2 years now, and he's never ever gone more than half rear. He's also never had his head held anywhere and works in a soft, relaxed outline and is a very mannerly and kind ride. 

To counteract olivia_deane's video, here's mine charting these 2 years:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQYBwOtj_LM&feature=channel_video_title

As you can see, the emphasis was on ensuring he went forwards happily at all times. Once he was going forwards into a steady contact of his own choosing, he was asked to do the harder stuff. Until this year, he was hardly asked to work in a true, 'up' outline- now he is scoring 65%+ and improving at the rate of knots! It might have taken a while longer, but he is a very happy and relaxed horse. HOWEVER, his response to stress or worry is to stop going forwards and start going up- a gadget when he was less secure would have freaked him out. He hacked in draw reins for a while to remedy his realisation that if he inverted and rushed Al had nothing she could do but they were chosen because they could be dropped as soon as he stopped!

Please take your time- there is all the time in the world for him to do the grown up stuff. He's still only a baby!!


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## charlie76 (18 October 2011)

Some horses take a gadget and some don't!  Correct,  mine do, yours doesn't evidently by its behaviour.  
Usually its not the actual gadget they object To but the lack of basic schooling before use or the rider or handler at the other end.


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## Gingerwitch (18 October 2011)

Gosh look at the time.... you really should be tucked up in your bed with a few little teds, then you can throw them out again.

nighty night, sweet dreams ... now where were you.... oh yep - the 5 year old that rears and rears and rears, straight off the track , oh has it had 6 months off..... or was it a year...... was it cantering a circle or was it rearinig..... ohhh all these stories I cant quite remember what I have posted..... never mind I will ask the lady at the shop, the instructor at my yard, oh no my instructor that compets at a high level..... oh getting in a bit of a mess - now was it a 5 year old....


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## Keeky (18 October 2011)

charlie76 said:



			Some horses take a gadget and some don't!  Correct,  mine do, yours doesn't evidently by its behaviour.  
Usually its not the actual gadget they object To but the lack of basic schooling before use or the rider or handler at the other end.
		
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Ive called the vet out to check his teeth and back for next week!
He has been a star in it twice, it's just yesterday was really odd! Gonna give him time to adapt to it all as I originaly said I wasn't going to ride in itttt but nobody seems to undderstand in here  
Yeahh got a lesson next week with one of the instructors and a friend helping everyday on foot who is great help 
Any recommendationsss?


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## charlie76 (18 October 2011)

Has the lady in the shop seen your horse ridden? If not, How on earth can her advice be taken?
As for your instructor, What are her qualifications or claim to fame?


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## Keeky (18 October 2011)

Lolo said:



			See, Reg threatens to go up on occasion. Had him 2 years now, and he's never ever gone more than half rear. He's also never had his head held anywhere and works in a soft, relaxed outline and is a very mannerly and kind ride. 

To counteract olivia_deane's video, here's mine charting these 2 years:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQYBwOtj_LM&feature=channel_video_title

As you can see, the emphasis was on ensuring he went forwards happily at all times. Once he was going forwards into a steady contact of his own choosing, he was asked to do the harder stuff. Until this year, he was hardly asked to work in a true, 'up' outline- now he is scoring 65%+ and improving at the rate of knots! It might have taken a while longer, but he is a very happy and relaxed horse. HOWEVER, his response to stress or worry is to stop going forwards and start going up- a gadget when he was less secure would have freaked him out. He hacked in draw reins for a while to remedy his realisation that if he inverted and rushed Al had nothing she could do but they were chosen because they could be dropped as soon as he stopped!

Please take your time- there is all the time in the world for him to do the grown up stuff. He's still only a baby!!
		
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Thanks for your commentt 
Won't use the de gogue until he settles and is working forward, it was literally to tell him he can relax his head down! Only used it today to lunge in and then 5 minutes to ride and he was a star!
You have any videos of yourss?
I always pick up techniques off people with ex race horses like on youtube etc 
Like KREquestrian her youtube is literally of just bringing on thoroughbreds, amazing!
She's always so helpful tooxx


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## Keeky (18 October 2011)

charlie76 said:



			Has the lady in the shop seen your horse ridden? If not, How on earth can her advice be taken?
As for your instructor, What are her qualifications or claim to fame?
		
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No she hasn't :/ You're righttt! haha
What do you mean claim to fame :/ Google her Shari Butchart and has a family run yard with her parents and two sisters 
She has up to her stage 4 bhs


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## charlie76 (18 October 2011)

Bhs bhs stage four means nothing in regards to teaching ability.  What teaching qualifications does she have?


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## digitalangel (18 October 2011)

to the OP

why do you take on board "recommendations" from person X, Y and Z some of which havent seen your horse, yet if other HHO'ers "recommend" that perhaps the de gogue is causing the problem is is "critisism"? 

See, the thing is, you came here asking for help, and it was given, but you dont like what you hear. I sympathise with you, i really do - ive been there, and you dont want to encourage the rearing because it is dangerous. 

The logical answer is to subtract everything and take it back to its minimal configuration - horse, saddle, bridle, rider. Just walk for 10 minutes in the school and concentrate on getting the horse relaxed. Hacking is a good way to chill a horse, if that works for him. 
Chilled out horses dont rear. 

Speaking from experience, as i am sure a lot of people are. 

Also, it is just the internet. Please dont take it too much to heart. But beware when you portst on the internet asking for advice, then you will get it.


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## Tnavas (18 October 2011)

Rearing is not a nice thing and is NOT to do with the fact that he has been in training and is an ex racehorse. I've worked with hundreds of them over the years and in general there are only a few that do this. To date they have all been PTS. Rearing is dangerous for both of you. A friends mother now has a catheter bag as her ex racer reared over backwards, landing on her, breaking all four corners of her pelvis off and rupturing her bladder.

If you are determined to keep him then first get the chiro out to look at him - just in case he has been over backwards in the past.

Have teeth carefully looked at - even if only recently done.

If you are using a flash, change it to a drop. 

Have a more experienced rider hop on him and give you an assesment of him.

Look at your schooling programme - and ask yourself if you are asking too much of him.

Remove the de Gogue - yes they can help but if his muscles are not ready for the outline you are after he may be in pain.

Tone down your schooling program.

Work him on the lunge for a few weeks to help in building up the correct muscles and to become more obedient to your voice. 

Lunge him before you ride and see if you can gauge his possible behaviour for the day

TBH if it is possible to return him then I would - there are plenty more better behaved horses out there.


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## Lolo (18 October 2011)

Keeky said:



			Thanks for your commentt 
Won't use the de gogue until he settles and is working forward, it was literally to tell him he can relax his head down! Only used it today to lunge in and then 5 minutes to ride and he was a star!
You have any videos of yourss?
I always pick up techniques off people with ex race horses like on youtube etc 
Like KREquestrian her youtube is literally of just bringing on thoroughbreds, amazing!
She's always so helpful tooxx
		
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It's my sister on board, her horse. She was 15 when she got him  and her youtube channel (http://www.youtube.com/user/SomethingsUp55) charts her time with Reg. She sticks with having weekly lessons (rather that than compete more!) with someone with a lot of experience and an amazing knack of knowing exactly how teach what's in front of her. If someone who'd never seen him gave her advice, I think she'd ignore it mostly, as they have o idea of what's going on behind the scenes...


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## Elf On A Shelf (18 October 2011)

Ok people! As amusing as it has been your all getting FAR too touchy and personal! There is absolutely no need for name calling! If you don't like what someone says then discard it and don't bother reading it. Simples!


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## Keeky (18 October 2011)

digitalangel said:



			to the OP

why do you take on board "recommendations" from person X, Y and Z some of which havent seen your horse, yet if other HHO'ers "recommend" that perhaps the de gogue is causing the problem is is "critisism"? 

See, the thing is, you came here asking for help, and it was given, but you dont like what you hear. I sympathise with you, i really do - ive been there, and you dont want to encourage the rearing because it is dangerous. 

The logical answer is to subtract everything and take it back to its minimal configuration - horse, saddle, bridle, rider. Just walk for 10 minutes in the school and concentrate on getting the horse relaxed. Hacking is a good way to chill a horse, if that works for him. 
Chilled out horses dont rear. 

Speaking from experience, as i am sure a lot of people are. 

Also, it is just the internet. Please dont take it too much to heart. But beware when you portst on the internet asking for advice, then you will get it.
		
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You're right :/ I suppose I am ridiculously stubborn when it comes to people putting it bluntly! I get a little edgy for some reason hahaha!
Yeahhh, what even no martingale? Just complete basics?
There are so many reasons to why he could be doing it though!?
He's been in work for a year AFTER having 6 months off, I don't understand what it could be!
He was a star today though so it's hot and cold but then thats what you have to expect with these horses I guess!
Yeahh he was squealing too like he doesn't properly rear it's more the beginning of it, he goes up but it's not like WOAH THAT HORSE IS MENTAL kind of thing!? SO had the de gogue on for 5 10 minutes today and he was fine, took them off and he stayed fine! 
It does sound fair to start him again, he has so much time!!
Do you have a youtube?


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## charlie76 (18 October 2011)

And you can stop a horse rearing by doing What 99% of the people have suggested.  That was the original post. How do You stop the rearing:
1)take off the de gouge
2) work on getting your horse relaxed and accepting the aids 
3) use hacking to teach him to relax and stretch
4) work him on the Lunge in correctly fitting side reins 
5) work on the quality of the paces and the development of suppleness and forget the outline until this is established 
6( understand That to develop the muscles and retrain him takes months not weeks
7) get a Good trainer
8) taking advice from a shop assistant is just daft!


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## Keeky (18 October 2011)

charlie76 said:



			And you can stop a horse rearing by doing What 99% of the people have suggested.  That was the original post. How do You stop the rearing:
1)take off the de gouge
2) work on getting your horse relaxed and accepting the aids 
3) use hacking to teach him to relax and stretch
4) work him on the Lunge in correctly fitting side reins 
5) work on the quality of the paces and the development of suppleness and forget the outline until this is established 
6( understand That to develop the muscles and retrain him takes months not weeks
7) get a Good trainer
8) taking advice from a shop assistant is just daft!
		
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OMG FINALLLLLLLLLY!
THANK YOUUUU!!XX


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## Tnavas (18 October 2011)

olivia_deane said:



			gees, wish everyone wouldn't jump on the "she's not capable" band wagon!! There is a difference between sounds advice, encouragement and "OH MY GOD, A DE GOGUE SHE'S CRUEL, SHE'S RUSHING THINGS, OH MY GOD SAVE THAT HORSE"... cause guys, she just wanted some ideas!!.. she's obviously pretty prepared for what to expect, and if shes not shes on here aksing, trying to do her best, both horse and rider will learn with time, and the horse isn't going to break in the interim...

rant over... phew... just actually wanted to post a funny video of my tb when i first bought him that you made me thik of when you said jump all trotting poles at once ... you only need watch the first ten secs ... PS ignore riding!! haha i learnt with  him (and nope... he didnt break)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGcTC4ZrDZM

Click to expand...

Just watched your vidoe and thinking poor wee horse - your hands are terrible! - everytime he jumps big you catch him in the mouth. Why are you trying to do three poles in a row when he is obviously not happy with them? Why are you trying to jump show jumps that are far bigger than he is ready for? No wonder he is running out and stopping?

Next time you train/retrain a young horse. individual poles scattered around the arena until he will walk and trot over each without a fuss. Then add another at least 2.7m away so that he can get a full trot stride between. If you can't keep with him please use a neck strap!

The OP is being a bit of a madam - she asked for help and we gave it. The de Gogue is fine if the horse is introduced to it slowly. Iretrained 100's of TB's and they are generally very smart but don't tend to like being bombarded with information.


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## Keeky (18 October 2011)

Evelyn said:



			Rearing is not a nice thing and is NOT to do with the fact that he has been in training and is an ex racehorse. I've worked with hundreds of them over the years and in general there are only a few that do this. To date they have all been PTS. Rearing is dangerous for both of you. A friends mother now has a catheter bag as her ex racer reared over backwards, landing on her, breaking all four corners of her pelvis off and rupturing her bladder.

If you are determined to keep him then first get the chiro out to look at him - just in case he has been over backwards in the past.

Have teeth carefully looked at - even if only recently done.

If you are using a flash, change it to a drop. 

Have a more experienced rider hop on him and give you an assesment of him.

Look at your schooling programme - and ask yourself if you are asking too much of him.

Remove the de Gogue - yes they can help but if his muscles are not ready for the outline you are after he may be in pain.

Tone down your schooling program.

Work him on the lunge for a few weeks to help in building up the correct muscles and to become more obedient to your voice. 

Lunge him before you ride and see if you can gauge his possible behaviour for the day

TBH if it is possible to return him then I would - there are plenty more better behaved horses out there.
		
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Thanks for your advise 
It's not dangerous rearing but as I'm only 16 and not had as much experience as most in this forum, I can't risk him getting to dangerous! I'm already attached to him  but saftey is paramount!
Will definately take the de gogue off before my head gets ripped off haha!


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## Tnavas (18 October 2011)

Quote:
Originally Posted by charlie76 View Post
And you can stop a horse rearing by doing What 99% of the people have suggested. That was the original post. How do You stop the rearing:
1)take off the de gouge
2) work on getting your horse relaxed and accepting the aids
3) use hacking to teach him to relax and stretch
4) work him on the Lunge in correctly fitting side reins
5) work on the quality of the paces and the development of suppleness and forget the outline until this is established
6( understand That to develop the muscles and retrain him takes months not weeks
7) get a Good trainer
8) taking advice from a shop assistant is just daft!

OMG FINALLLLLLLLLY!
THANK YOUUUU!!XX 

Keeky - this is exactly what EVERYONE has been telling you all through this post. Please do the right thing and apologise to those that you were rude to.

The advice you have been given here has mostly been excellent. The above 8 points you should have been able to understand from just about every post.


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## Keeky (18 October 2011)

Evelyn said:



			Just watched your vidoe and thinking poor wee horse - your hands are terrible! - everytime he jumps big you catch him in the mouth. Why are you trying to do three poles in a row when he is obviously not happy with them? Why are you trying to jump show jumps that are far bigger than he is ready for? No wonder he is running out and stopping?

Next time you train/retrain a young horse. individual poles scattered around the arena until he will walk and trot over each without a fuss. Then add another at least 2.7m away so that he can get a full trot stride between. If you can't keep with him please use a neck strap!

The OP is being a bit of a madam - she asked for help and we gave it. The de Gogue is fine if the horse is introduced to it slowly. Iretrained 100's of TB's and they are generally very smart but don't tend to like being bombarded with information.
		
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I am indeed a bit of a madam  Atleast you put it into kinder words than some!
Yeahh it's been on the losest one possible! Then put onto the second ring today for about 5 or 10 minutes! He's been finee! He was ridiculously spooky when he was rearing anyway which may be the answer but it could be anything really!


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## Keeky (18 October 2011)

Evelyn said:



			Quote:
Originally Posted by charlie76 View Post
And you can stop a horse rearing by doing What 99% of the people have suggested. That was the original post. How do You stop the rearing:
1)take off the de gouge
2) work on getting your horse relaxed and accepting the aids
3) use hacking to teach him to relax and stretch
4) work him on the Lunge in correctly fitting side reins
5) work on the quality of the paces and the development of suppleness and forget the outline until this is established
6( understand That to develop the muscles and retrain him takes months not weeks
7) get a Good trainer
8) taking advice from a shop assistant is just daft!

OMG FINALLLLLLLLLY!
THANK YOUUUU!!XX 

Keeky - this is exactly what EVERYONE has been telling you all through this post. Please do the right thing and apologise to those that you were rude to.

The advice you have been given here has mostly been excellent. The above 8 points you should have been able to understand from just about every post.
		
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Sorry everyone -_- I get very stroppy and don't like being told bluntly as you can tell!
Ignore all the nasty words I've written to you all :/ Don't have to accept my appology.


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## Keeky (18 October 2011)

Evelyn said:



			Just watched your vidoe and thinking poor wee horse - your hands are terrible! - everytime he jumps big you catch him in the mouth. Why are you trying to do three poles in a row when he is obviously not happy with them? Why are you trying to jump show jumps that are far bigger than he is ready for? No wonder he is running out and stopping?

Next time you train/retrain a young horse. individual poles scattered around the arena until he will walk and trot over each without a fuss. Then add another at least 2.7m away so that he can get a full trot stride between. If you can't keep with him please use a neck strap!

The OP is being a bit of a madam - she asked for help and we gave it. The de Gogue is fine if the horse is introduced to it slowly. Iretrained 100's of TB's and they are generally very smart but don't tend to like being bombarded with information.
		
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But that is one amazing horse now :/ You can't tell by a video and you can't tell how hard the ride is until you've sat on it and it looks a LOTT harder and jumps a lot higher in the air than mine :/ & sometims its hard to control what your hands are doing when the horse is leaping in the air..
JUS SAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYIN


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## Miss L Toe (19 October 2011)

It is  difficult to understand why such experts have ANY problems with their horses, and as they know all the answers to their own questions so why do they post, if it is to impress us with their brilliant handling abilities with  "difficult" horses , once again they have  "failed to  impress"


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## Keeky (19 October 2011)

MrsD123 said:



			It is  difficult to understand why such experts have ANY problems with their horses, and as they know all the answers to their own questions so why do they post, if it is to impress us with their brilliant handling abilities with  "difficult" horses , once again they have  "failed to  impress"
		
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ohhh another one -_-
Everyone else is over it! Why start it over again?


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## Winklepoker (19 October 2011)

I LOVE A GOOD STROPPY THREAD.. right up ole' Winkleys street this... keep em coming half termers


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## Miss L Toe (30 October 2011)

Education Education Education, the taxpayers free gift to motherhood, just the same at least it keeps them out of the workplace till they mature at about 25 years of age, assuming they are not trailing a line of kiddies behind them by then.


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## Booboos (30 October 2011)

Keeky said:



			You all need to calm it a bit, everytime I ride, a friend that just sold her retrained ex race horse helps me & everyone has sworn by the de gogue you can't really comment on that gadget yourselves until you actually know what it does tbh! Just like you can't comment on why my horse is behaving this way:/ Simply asked how to stop him. He was fine the today in them and the other time we used them which was the first time, yesterday was because some idiot was cantering round and round past my wound up 5 year old!
		
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Hey well done! Funniest "Asking for advice and then ranting over getting it" post ever!


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## unbalanced (30 October 2011)

MrsD123 said:



			It is  difficult to understand why such experts have ANY problems with their horses, and as they know all the answers to their own questions so why do they post, if it is to impress us with their brilliant handling abilities with  "difficult" horses , once again they have  "failed to  impress"
		
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Experts can and do have problems with their horses. I used to ride with a famous dressage rider (competes internationally) and one of that rider's horses started rearing. A standing martingale was put on to prevent him from rearing as initially he was just doing little bunny hops (maybe what Keeky is describing). Unfortunately the fact that he was wearing a gadget that had no give in it meant that when he reared really high he couldn't use his neck to balance himself and went over. The rider was fine, the horse broke his neck. He survived only as a pasture ornament.
Shortly afterwards my horse started rearing (turned out to be due to pain) and I put a standing martingale on (as advised by my friends, I was in my teens). Almost immediately the dressage rider came and removed it for me, repeating pretty much all the advice given in this thread about simple tack and getting them freely moving forward, teeth and back checks and regaining their confidence. Putting any gadget that you can't release on a rearer is a danger because if they ever go high (and you don't know when that is going to happen, it wasn't a gradual thing with either the dressage horse or my horse) you need their head and neck to be completely free to give them the best chance of coming down safely.


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## unbalanced (30 October 2011)

Keeky said:



			But that is one amazing horse now :/ You can't tell by a video and you can't tell how hard the ride is until you've sat on it and it looks a LOTT harder and jumps a lot higher in the air than mine :/ & sometims its hard to control what your hands are doing when the horse is leaping in the air..
JUS SAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYIN
		
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If I couldn't control what my hands were doing I would be riding in a rope hackamore not a bit and I would have a neckstrap on. Never forget that your horse's mouth is at the other end of your reins.


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## JanetGeorge (30 October 2011)

Keeky said:



			A teacher on the yard is telling me to send him back but what do you expect in an ex race horse? Especially at the age of 5. He has the SWEETEST personality too!
		
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Some ex-racers are confirmed rearers - believe me, I've had a few!  but it's not a NORMAL behaviour in an ex-racehorse!  He CAN be cured - if you have enough experience - and patience - but it's a long job and chances are that - even when you think you've 'won' - he will revert at any occasion he is put under enough pressure (or if you put a less experienced rider on him.)

So you have to decide if you WANT to spend weeks/months/years coping with this behaviour.  And whether you have the patience (and the guts) to cope with the rearing in the meantime!

I gather there's a video but haven't had a chance yet to look at it - or read the many responses.  Will try to do that later.


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## TicTac (30 October 2011)

Sounds like he's too much for you and you are not right for him!


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## ex racer rider (30 October 2011)

Have you even worked with an ex racer.... Thay arent babies so you cant wait untill baby is out of him like you said and you cant treat them like normal horses, you have to be sooo sensitive and understanding and quick above all, if you feel him tightening or getting anxious take away the scary situation/thing thats upsetting him and gradually introduce it and DO NOT put any gadget on untill you can get 20m circles, balanced canters and a calm and responsive horse. Im assuming you have never seen a horse flip over? Rear up so far that it falls back and snaps its back?...... I have and it was because of gadgets. I dont use a gadget or anything. Untill they have been out of racing a GOOD year or longer to let their brains have a rest and then they have to be going nicely for atleast a year. Racers cant be rushed and be prepared for the odd rear when in the future you present a scary obsticle or something new.
if you have any questions just ask, I have ex racers and also rehabilitate them.
ps. Look at my name ;-)


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## TicTac (30 October 2011)

ex racer rider said:



			Have you even worked with an ex racer.... Thay arent babies so you cant wait untill baby is out of him like you said and you cant treat them like normal horses, you have to be sooo sensitive and understanding and quick above all, if you feel him tightening or getting anxious take away the scary situation/thing thats upsetting him and gradually introduce it and DO NOT put any gadget on untill you can get 20m circles, balanced canters and a calm and responsive horse. Im assuming you have never seen a horse flip over? Rear up so far that it falls back and snaps its back?...... I have and it was because of gadgets. I dont use a gadget or anything. Untill they have been out of racing a GOOD year or longer to let their brains have a rest and then they have to be going nicely for atleast a year. Racers cant be rushed and be prepared for the odd rear when in the future you present a scary obsticle or something new.
if you have any questions just ask, I have ex racers and also rehabilitate them.
ps. Look at my name ;-)
		
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Well said! Too many people pick up a ' cheap' ex racehorse and think they can turn them into ' normal ' horses in a space of a few months. Some horses are better equipt for a new life than others. Racehorses are taught to go fast and in straight lines. They do not understand stand, collection or circles etc!

I have owned horses for over 35 years and find that SOME of the younger generation of horse owners think they know it all after riding or horse owning for a very short period of time. All they want is a quick fix and to compete the horse into the ground. They take on horses far above their experience and then wonder why they have so many problems.

Sorry but this OP got my back up right from the first few sentences!


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## ex racer rider (30 October 2011)

Actually after reading all of the previous comments I resind my comment, it seems to me that you have no regard for your horse and when faced with people with more experience and more knowledge who try and HELP you you throw it back in their faces. People like you are the reason why racers get a bad name so send it back or as people used to say once it rears get off, stay off and ring the kennels..... Because frankly it would be nicer for the poor bloody horse if it did go to the kennels rather than being with you


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## Carefreegirl (30 October 2011)

As another first time ex-racer owner my advice is time time time and more time ! Mine came off the track was turned away for 6 months. I led her in hand round the village and woods for a few months, many bruised toes to show for it ! Lunged for a month or so until I got on her again. I had lessons straight from the word go, as many as finances would allow. She went up with me once - I was asking to much and she scared the life out of me. She tried it a second time but as soon as I felt her go I pulled her sharply to the left and she's never done it since. 

She was very bolshy and argumentative but I eventually realised that this was because she was insecure so completely changed my way of handling her. I'm not a dominant, shouty person by anymeans but I have to stop and think for a split second before I respond to her actions.

I changed my instructor as she doesn't like men even tho I've had that instructor for years and almost every person on this forum will of heard of him, he wasn't right for *her.*
5 years down the line I have a beautiful loving horse that I can hunt on the weekend and dressage on the tuesday (done so quite a few times). Can lead out youngsters, canter up the woods and stop by using my voice only etc etc. She's got me to Hickstead for the last 2 years in the ROR finals, something I could only dreamt of before.

The only gadget I've ever used is a pessoa for lunging. I'm not a pro rider, far from it so just give both of yourselves time and as you say you've got a year off so use it wisely and good luck.


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## kirstyl (30 October 2011)

carefreegirl said:



			As another first time ex-racer owner my advice is time time time and more time ! Mine came off the track was turned away for 6 months. I led her in hand round the village and woods for a few months, many bruised toes to show for it ! Lunged for a month or so until I got on her again. I had lessons straight from the word go, as many as finances would allow. She went up with me once - I was asking to much and she scared the life out of me. She tried it a second time but as soon as I felt her go I pulled her sharply to the left and she's never done it since. 

She was very bolshy and argumentative but I eventually realised that this was because she was insecure so completely changed my way of handling her. I'm not a dominant, shouty person by anymeans but I have to stop and think for a split second before I respond to her actions.

I changed my instructor as she doesn't like men even tho I've had that instructor for years and almost every person on this forum will of heard of him, he wasn't right for *her.*
5 years down the line I have a beautiful loving horse that I can hunt on the weekend and dressage on the tuesday (done so quite a few times). Can lead out youngsters, canter up the woods and stop by using my voice only etc etc. She's got me to Hickstead for the last 2 years in the ROR finals, something I could only dreamt of before.

The only gadget I've ever used is a pessoa for lunging. I'm not a pro rider, far from it so just give both of yourselves time and as you say you've got a year off so use it wisely and good luck.
		
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Great post. Well done you for having the time, care and understanding to help your horse progress confidently and correctly.


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## Slightlyconfused (30 October 2011)

If the gadget was recommended by his old owners then they didn't spend the time to work with him. Also a livery yard is completely different to a race yard so he has to learn how to fitt in and behave and take in all the new stimuli.

My sisters ex-racer went up with her and a friend, turned out his saddle was pinching him and too long for his back, he is 16'2hh but has a very small rib cage, he had his back done every few week and a massage every other week. untill he got a new saddle and he now goes lovely.
Even if he has just been hacking for a year he still isn't developing the right muscles, when you put gadgets on them they need to be able to have stronger muscles to cope with it.

Do lots of in hand work to encourage him to lower his head and stretch his top line, when we walk in from the feild i give take with the lead rope when the Donkey has his head up untill he lowers it then we have a pat and the pressure/release comes off. You can also to stretching exersises inhis stable to help build up flexabilty. 

All things like that will help. 

Also lots of lunge work to encourage him to work from behind and learn to balance, side reins and a pessoa on a very lose setting can help with this. Withe the pessoa only start in walk once you have warmed up for 15-20 mins and gradually increase to trot. 

You don't need to worry about were his head is atm as having an outline means nothing if your horses isn't balanced and forward going, he will eventually learn to drop when he has the balance and muscle strenght to cope with it.

Our ex-race spent 9 nears in racing, had a year in a paddock then went to the TRC up in lancaster had three months retraining there and then we got him on loan last oct, he has been great and learns really fast, but what we have learnt is little and often, 10 minutes of great work in walk is far better than half an hour or more of bad walk, trot and canter. 

You need to build up the good experiances slowly and remember they never really are ex-racers, they were born and bred to race, it has been trained in them right from the begining, we are asking them to learn something different but at the end of the day in there minds they are still race horses.


Give him time and take him right back to basics and you will have a cracker of a horse.


xxxxx


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## Miss L Toe (30 October 2011)

slightlyconfused said:



			Give him time and take him right back to basics and you will have a cracker of a horse.


xxxxx
		
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I wish I was as confident as you are, the OP has  limited ability/experience, a short fuse and a closed mind [allegedly]. NOT what highly strung horse needs


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## Goldenstar (30 October 2011)

It's lively on here tonight dare I wade in . I might carefully lunge in the degogue ( don't use them my self) but the horse needs to be confident in what's it's being asked to I would be hacking out in company then going into the school when you get back and just patting him walking round and making it all very low key and easy.
The best thing for a rearing horse is good hands strong legs good nerves and a Standing martingale an old fashioned bit of kit but still very useful I use them on all of mine when they are started for hacking and schooling on the flat just in case.


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## Echo Bravo (30 October 2011)

I've put her down as a troll.


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## Miss L Toe (31 October 2011)

Echo Bravo said:



			I've put her down as a troll.
		
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So a troll is some sort of teenager with a large wooden spoon who needs feeding with sensible advice so she can spit out snake venom,? would it help if we were to go round to her house tonight, cover ourselves with bedsheets and make scary noises?
WE KNOW WHERE YOU LIVE!!!!!


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## Goldenstar (31 October 2011)

Ah now I understand this original post is a scary Halloween trick!


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## Tnavas (31 October 2011)

She is not a troll

She is a teenager with a horse that she loves dearly

She is a teenager having problems with her horse

She has also apologised for being a brat several pages ago.

So for heavens sake people give the negative replies a miss!

All in all she is a teenager seeking constructive help from a horse community - be adults and be nice!


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## Loch_ness_monster (31 October 2011)

I am not being rude but could the reason the horses is rearing you? If he has been hacking and riding well for 6 months with his prev owners and he has come to you and started rearing you may not just get on. I'm not saying you're a bad ridder but some riders and horses just don't click. By the sounds of it this is going to be a difficult partnership for a long long time. Speaking from experience I would consider selling and getting something you get along with easier, I had a horse I had to retrain when I was a teenager and I loved her so much I couldn't bare to sell her but my god she bad! Looking back now I wish I hadn't wasted all those years trying to force a partnership as we just went suited to each other. Maybe you should consider looking around for a horse and I bet you will fall in love with one you can actually enjoy. Sorry if this is not what you wanted to hear but that is my honest opinion.


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## Archiepoo (31 October 2011)

what im wondering is where is this 16 yr olds parents whilst this horse is rearing?    why cant people see that TBs are not regular horses ! its like trying to teach someone to drive in a ferrari- they are the most sensitive of animals -i for one wish people would stop buying exracers for inexperienced people  just cos they are cheap - and then they wonder why they have problems!!! sheeesh


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## Goldenstar (31 October 2011)

Good point archiepoo where are the parents in this and poor little Tb too cheap to buy and yelling he does not understand.


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## Echo Bravo (31 October 2011)

Sorry but she has had some very good advice from several people, and spat out her dummy at them all, ok she's 16 but no need for bad manners and it seemed she didn't want advice at all really as she knew best.


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## Kellys Heroes (31 October 2011)

Reminds me of Jazzaria all over again!! 

Seriously though OP a few of my friends have taken on ex racers - some have succeeded in easing the horse into their new lifestyle and have ended up with a lovely horse, willing to do everything (albeit with the odd tantrum ) Others have tried to rush it and ended up with a bad tempered, unwilling, stubborn horse that they have no control or patience with.
I think (and I'll admit I have never owned an ex racer, but have had my fair share of difficult, shall we say, horses) time and patience is the key - right back to basics, groundwork, hacking, building a really strong bond to get that trust and confidence to a maximum before you start to think about how he's going in the school.
You are only 16 you have all the time in the world to work with him  My advice would be to stick with it, well done for asking for advice - now just accept it and enjoy your horse!
K x


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## Miss L Toe (1 November 2011)

Well, not to have yet another dig at this particular OP, time was when at the age of 16 one was leaving school and in the workplace full time,  maybe in the army getting taught how to shoot to kill.

In 24 months the 16 year old will be voting, ie suddenly recognised as an adult.

I started working on a Saturday morning at age 12, got a big pay rise when I was 15 to real money, but had to work an eight hour day with tea breaks.

Most of the girls who have their own horses round here are 14 years to sixteen, they seem pretty sensible and are self-sufficient.


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## Tnavas (1 November 2011)

Echo Bravo said:



			Sorry but she has had some very good advice from several people, and spat out her dummy at them all, ok she's 16 but no need for bad manners and it seemed she didn't want advice at all really as she knew best.
		
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SHE APOLOGISED - SO GIVE IT A REST!


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## baymareb (1 November 2011)

I'm surprised that no one has suggested getting your saddle fit checked professionally. Agree with the other advice about less is more but also strongly advise checking the saddle. Young horses change shape quickly - I have a 6 year old ex-racer and I've had the fit change in as little as a week with regular work. TB's are sensitive and a poorly fitting saddle can drive them crazy.


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## Clodagh (1 November 2011)

baymareb - I have just stalked through OPs other posts, well some of them, and she bought the saddle herself without having it fitted as it was comfy for her! She did say she was getting the saddler out to check it afterwards but what doesn't make sense is the saddle came from Ingatestone where they have a good in house saddler so don't understand why it wasn't checked prior to purchase.
She does then have another thread saying it doesn't fit and she needs a pad as hes getting a rubbed back.
Poor horse. I do remember being 16 and boy did I know everything but my parents would never have allowed that to impinge on an animals life.


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## Victoria25 (1 November 2011)

Im sorry if I'm repeating what others have said as Im at work and dont have time to read through all responses 

I'd deffo get two things checked immediately - that his saddle fits correctly and that his teeth have been checked. 

I bought a 9 year old ex racer a few months back who came out of racing two years ago and had since been stuck in a field as nobody could get near him (he was deemed as dangerous/unrideable). I'm currently in the process of a complete reschooling process - something I suggest you do too as rearing is dangerous and needs to be stopped immediately before he seriously hurts you! His teeth were also completely horrendous which nobody had checked.  

Im using a Thorowgood high wither (adjustable) saddle along with an all over riser pad as he has no topline/prominent spine and a normal saddle will put unwanted pressure on his withers and could cause him pain (resulting in rearing perhaps?). 

Remove all gadgets and ride him what he will know - a plain simple snaffle. The de gouge is great for topline but maybe to restricting it to lunging once a week. Try also a lot of uphull/downhill hacking to develop his topline. 

Good luck x


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## Miss L Toe (2 November 2011)

sell your TB and buy something you can cope with.


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## Damnation (2 November 2011)

Keeky said:



			ERRRR Was actually recommended them in the shop for the fact they don't strap their heads down unlike draw reins. They relax their head into a long and low position working on a pully system of rope. & Excuse me I've taken a year out of college just for him so I do have the time. & He had his 6 months off and came back into work with previous trainers who didn't have time for him so yeah great idea I'll send him back (Y)
		
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1) No need for that. Its plain rude. Didn't want to listen? Then don't post the question.

2) he is 5, probibily has no muscle from racing and needs to be built up. Slow and steady wins the race. He was probibily rearing because he was sore. Also don't be lulled into thinking, because his head is down he is going correctly, you want to ensure you maintain the forwards.

3) For now lunging/longreining will probibily be best for him to get his own balance without a rider on board. Once he is balanced and working with a bit more topline, then put the rider back into play. Also, lots of hacking etc to mix it up a bit.

4) Have his back, teeth, and saddle checked. What bit are you riding him in?


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## fatpiggy (2 November 2011)

Keeky said:



			You all need to calm it a bit, everytime I ride, a friend that just sold her retrained ex race horse helps me & everyone has sworn by the de gogue you can't really comment on that gadget yourselves until you actually know what it does tbh! Just like you can't comment on why my horse is behaving this way:/ Simply asked how to stop him. He was fine the today in them and the other time we used them which was the first time, yesterday was because some idiot was cantering round and round past my wound up 5 year old!
		
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My troll warning just sounded.  I get the strong impression that it isn't just your horse that is young.  So your friend has found a De Gogue worked for her horse so by inference will work  for every ex racehorse in existence?  Believe it or not, there are plenty of people here who know perfectly well how things like that "work", and even more surprisingly, know way more than you about reschooling ex racers.  Gosh, a horse that gets excited because its windy and another canters past - what a shock that is.  Bet the other rider would be delighted to know that they are an idiot for having the temerity to be working their horse in canter.

Heat and kitchens springs to mind.


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## noodle_ (2 November 2011)

the OP now banned??


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## JessandCharlie (2 November 2011)

She has been for quite some time noodle  don't think she said anything *that* bad, did she? Or have I missed something? 

J&C


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## Goldenstar (2 November 2011)

Please explain someone how and why would OP get banned I am new to all this.


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## Miss L Toe (3 November 2011)

Goldenstar said:



			Please explain someone how and why would OP get banned I am new to all this.
		
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I suppose she could be a nutter, or a child, or a troublemaker, this forum is for adults to exchange views and info, so if TFC [The Fat Controller] decides she has overstepped the mark and is just a troll, some sort of ego tripper out to stir anger and so on, she will be pulled.
PS a lot of people complained to TFC about one of my posts [and I am never controversial lol] the whole post got pulled in the end.


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## MrsMeakins (3 November 2011)

I brought a 5 year old ex-racer 3 years ago and had the same issues.

I am not sure if someone has already asked this, but have you had back and teeth checked?

In my experience good racehorses are very well looked after, but those who aren't bringing in the money don't tend to get the same attention and care.

Once back and teeth are checked and a correct fitting saddle is put on, then you can concerntrate on why it is rearing.
Does it rear on the lung or just when you are on its back?

I think if you have time on your side and a PMA, then you can give it everything you have to re-educate the horse, but if you are looking to change it quickly, then maybe it is not the project for you.

Hope you find out the reasons behind behaviour.


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