# Humane destruction by shooting



## AMH (3 August 2011)

Now, before we start, I don't have any axes to grind against the hunt - I'm merely curious as to people's experiences and anecdotes.

A friend of a friend decided, after much expensive vet treatment and a hopeless prognosis for future work, to have her very large horse destroyed and decided to have the hunt do it.

Long story short, the whole thing went wrong and the horse ended up loose in the field with a head wound, before he could be caught and another (successful) attempt made.

It was, as you may imagine, incredibly traumatic (the friend of the friend was present so this is a first hand account). The hunt kennelman was mortified and said it had never happened to him in 15 years.

My question is, has anyone else seen or heard of anything similar, ie with destruction by humane killer? I have horses myself and have always opted for lethal injection, mainly because I'm a bit squeamish about having the animal shot. This experience has made me decide I'd always choose lethal injection in future, but that might not always be possible, depending on circumstances. 

Sorry to bring up such a morbid subject, but it's definitely got me thinking...


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## Jakeyboy (3 August 2011)

Thats awful! She must have been in pieces, I know I would have been. I myself have always opted for the injection. Maybe thats more for me, but either way I just feel its kinder. Either way things can go wrong. I've heard some horrific stories about the injection aswell but have never had any problems with mine. I just can't stand the thought of my precious horse being shot. I did have to have 1 shot, I couldn't be there though, my Dad was there for me, I just couldn't do it. I was told by the vet he had to do it that way as my little boy had had a stroke which had sent him blind & all his internal organs were slowly shutting down. Not really sure why, but he said because he had had a stroke the injection would not work or take to long. My dad assures me it was very quick though. Either way its a horrible thing to go through so people will choose whichever way they feel thay can cope with better, there is no right or wrong way.


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## Nudibranch (3 August 2011)

That sounds dreadful, poor horse/owner. BUT....If you search on here you'll no doubt find all kinds of horror stories about pts. However I would have to say I chose shooting for mine and wouldn't change in future. There will always be the very few who sadly have a bad experience but that goes for shooting, injection, abattoir or whatever. I would like to reassure anyone who is having to make this horrible decision that in my experience, the gun was instant and there was nothing other than the tiniest entry point to deal with.


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## AMH (3 August 2011)

Nudibranch said:



			That sounds dreadful, poor horse/owner. BUT....If you search on here you'll no doubt find all kinds of horror stories about pts. However I would have to say I chose shooting for mine and wouldn't change in future. There will always be the very few who sadly have a bad experience but that goes for shooting, injection, abattoir or whatever. I would like to reassure anyone who is having to make this horrible decision that in my experience, the gun was instant and there was nothing other than the tiniest entry point to deal with.
		
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Thank you for that - I would like to point out that I'm not trying to panic anyone!


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## Trinity Fox (3 August 2011)

We have had several shot by the hunt and one done with a humane killer by a salughterman in an emergency without incident.
We did have one who must have had the bullet hit an artery sp? as he bled out of his mouth an enormous amount but he was dead before he hit the floor.

It is very unfortunate this happened to your friend and must have been distressing but our experiences have alaways been good with the hunt, well as good as they can in that situation and they are alaways very professsional while we are blubbering around the place.


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## Wagtail (3 August 2011)

Yes, a friend of mine had to help hold down a pony with a broken leg after the first shot went wrong. He was helping the huntsman. 

I would always use injection. If anything goes wrong I would rather inject again than have to shoot again.


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## Black_Horse_White (3 August 2011)

My horse was PTS by injection, it was very quick an peaceful. would not hesitate to have it done again. No way could I have my horse shot, but that's just me


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## Amymay (3 August 2011)

It must have been very, very distressing for all involved - and I include the huntsman.

I have never heard a story like it, and have myself always had horses destroyed by the hunt, incident free.


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## Orangehorse (3 August 2011)

There are lots of different tales of things going wrong with injection or shooting.  

My friend was at Badminton years and years ago, before they routinely used screens,  and a horse had to be shot and she said the vet made a hash of it - she was a farmer so she knew all about having animals destroyed.  Normally a slaughterman/huntsman is just as good as a vet as although they haven't the education they have the experience.
We have had to have casualty animals destroyed occasionally (cattle) and have used vet or slaughterman and it has been instantaneous.  I remember one occasion though, when the huntsman came to shoot an animal and thought it was going to be lying down quietly, but he couldn't get near it even though it was pretty ill, and in the end we had to help get it into a cattle crush to keep it still.

I can only imagine the absolute horror of the incident with your friends horse, it doesn't bear thinking about.  Horses are very good a picking up body language and vibes, so maybe a vet uses a sedative as routine, whereas a huntsman wouldn't.


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## _MizElz_ (3 August 2011)

As Nudibranch has said, there are many horror stories about both methods. I think, at the end of the day, it comes down to personal choice. I have heard fewer stories of the gun going wrong when compared to the injection, and if I had to make a choice, any horse of mine would always be put down by the hunt. That said, I do accept that shooting may not always go to plan; when we took one of our old ponies to the kennels, we heard two shots in very quick succession (I was told they always load two bullets.) 

I was discussing this with my farrier last week. He has come across so many traumatised owners whose horses have reacted badly to the injection; it reminded me of an experience my dad (also a farrier) told me about once. He was shoeing at a yard where a horse had just been PTS in its stable by injection; they had covered it over with a tarpaulin, and the vet had left the yard. Half an hour after she'd gone, the horse began to groan and kick - clearly very much still alive - and Dad had to sit on it to hold it down while the vet was called back. I have vowed never to put my horse in the position where that could happen; at least with a gun, problems can be rectified pretty quickly.

Incidentally, I also have had experience of the injection 'going wrong' (having the desired effect, ultimately, but not being quick nor humane) for three different dogs, all of different ages, all with different reasons for needing to be PTS, which has really made me question this method in general


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## Tammytoo (3 August 2011)

I've experienced both without anything going wrong.  Shooting was quicker, dead before they hit the ground.  Injection slower, horse swaying about a bit before lying down and rolling over.

For the owner, injection seems nicer, just lying down and going to sleep.  From the horses point of view I suspect shooting is better as it is so instantaneous, rather than feeling muzzy and probably slightly confused as to what is happening to it.

At the end of the day it is just an awful decision to make.


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## Echo Bravo (3 August 2011)

Over 40 years of owning horses, I've always had them shot,it's fast and they never know. What happened to your friends horse is a rare happening. Again I've heard some horrid stories about the injection. Must admit my vet perfers the gun. I think you do what you have to do, gun or needle it's up to the owner. But must admit I was surprised to hear that it ran round the field, was it a) not held properly b)not put in a yard or barn.


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## AMH (3 August 2011)

Echo Bravo said:



			Over 40 years of owning horses, I've always had them shot,it's fast and they never know. What happened to your friends horse is a rare happening. Again I've heard some horrid stories about the injection. Must admit my vet perfers the gun. I think you do what you have to do, gun or needle it's up to the owner. But must admit I was surprised to hear that it ran round the field, was it a) not held properly b)not put in a yard or barn.
		
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TBH I didn't have the courage to ask, since it was all so horrid. But that point did cross my mind immediately. I'm not sure why the decision was made to do it in the field rather than on the yard, but I would guess they went with their knowledge of the horse (he lived out) and on the hunt staff's advice. There is a decent field shelter they could have used... I really don't know.


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## Fools Motto (3 August 2011)

I've always used the hunt, and can't thank them enough for the care, and kindness they use when in this situation. The horse really does know nothing, it is so quick. I've never experienced or heard of it going wrong, and will continue to use them in future.
I was scared off the injection method when I had to plan my old pony's last day. I was told, they can fight against it, and its better for all with the gun. I was so glad, I would have hated to see a horse struggling to stay on his feet, while us humans are distessed too.


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## Wagtail (3 August 2011)

I don't know where all these stories about the injection come from. I think it is an old fashioned view and that perhaps in the past there were problems. But the procedure is so refined now that there are no problems. Certainly the three that I have witnessed have been very straight forward. The horse is sedated first and this can make a horse sway. Maybe this is what people are mistakenly referring to when they say the horse fights to stay on its feet. The lethal injection is then given and the horse drops immediately to the ground and is unconscious before it reaches the floor. There is no jerking of the limbs like with the gun, though there can be some heavy expirations of air but the horse is fully unconscious as its body painlessly shuts down.


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## Kenzo (3 August 2011)

We've had a few done by the bullet at our yard (not all my horses btw) I'm talking liveries etc and not heard of any problems.

I think however you have to take into account the situation, what the horse is like, to decide which is the best method, if that is you have the choice, I can see why with some horses the injection would be a better option, but my first choice would be by bullet for a straight forward job.


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## team barney (3 August 2011)

A friend had her horse shot, I wasn't there when it happened but apparently the first attempt went wrong a blew half her poor horse's face off.  I would always opt for the injection since knowing what happened to that horse.  I want to be there at the end for my horses but couldn't face it if it went wrong like that.


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## Amymay (3 August 2011)

AMH said:



			I'm not sure why the decision was made to do it in the field rather than on the yard, but I would guess they went with their knowledge of the horse (he lived out) and on the hunt staff's advice. There is a decent field shelter they could have used... I really don't know.
		
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Again, always had mine done in the field - near the gate for easy access of the lorry, and never had a problem.


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## zoelouisem (3 August 2011)

Ive seen and heard far more horror stories from the injection than being shot, although when i was teenager there was one that got shot that went wrong, it had very bad twisted gut nothing they could do for it vet shot didnt get it propery so had to be repeated but it was down from the colic so rectified very quickly. 

Only but the other day the YO told me the 32year laminitic that had to be PTS (mixute of old age lami and athritis) had an injection and she said it fought like hell against it, ive also seen first hand horses struggling with injection trying to get up wobbling ect. So i think theres far more incidents via injection.

Mad me very nervous when 2 weeks ago i had to take my elderly dog to PTS about the injection as ive never had to have a dog done before but that was very quick and very peacefull.

My heart does go out t your friend though must have been horrific and very bad luck that it happened to them.


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## 'S'teamed (3 August 2011)

AMH said:



			A friend of a friend
		
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I always find that stories containing the above always tend to have a hint of Chinese Whispers.


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## Amymay (3 August 2011)

I don't know where all these stories about the injection come from. I think it is an old fashioned view and that perhaps in the past there were problems. But the procedure is so refined now that there are no problems.
		
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I don't think you can say that Wagtail.  Sure, the processes have improved - but there are still cases when the injection (for whatever reason) simply isn't the peaceful end that we would all hope for.


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## Pearlsasinger (3 August 2011)

I had mine PTS by the vet last week.
We had waited for knacker but due to a breakdown in communication (everybody's adrenalin levels very high) she arrived to find the horse on her feet, without the gun.  Vet had stayed in case we needed to sedate while waiting, so she injected.  The poor mare was on her last legs with septicaemia, the vet decided not to sedate but the mare still tried to resist the effects of the injection, trying to rear as she fell. Although every-one present expected and recognised the reflex/involuntary movements, there were plenty, which did not help any-one.
We have had others shot previously, both by hunt and knacker with no problems whatsoever.  The effect is instant - horse is dead before it hits the ground.
We had a pony injected many years ago and said then that we'd never do it again, also because she resisted the effects of the injection.

ETA I agree with the 'friend of a friend' comments.  I do think that knacker/hunt are better at shooting as they are more experienced than vets.


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## Wagtail (3 August 2011)

Why didn't she sedate?


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## BEUnderTheInfluence (3 August 2011)

I was slightly put off the injection after a small exmoor at our yard needed to be put to sleep, it was staggering around the stable and hitting its head on the water bowl on the walls and it was all a little messy poor thing. At least with a shot its over with, I think if a horse is very ill or laid on the floor injection is fine because theres no sort of falling and stumbling whilst its still alive.


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## Wagtail (3 August 2011)

amymay said:



			I don't think you can say that Wagtail.  Sure, the processes have improved - but there are still cases when the injection (for whatever reason) simply isn't the peaceful end that we would all hope for.
		
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I think it should always be done with sedation first, just like it is when horses are put under for operations.


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## Wagtail (3 August 2011)

BEUnderTheInfluence said:



			I was slightly put off the injection after a small exmoor at our yard needed to be put to sleep, it was staggering around the stable and hitting its head on the water bowl on the walls and it was all a little messy poor thing. At least with a shot its over with, I think if a horse is very ill or laid on the floor injection is fine because theres no sort of falling and stumbling whilst its still alive.
		
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This sounds like too much sedation or too little lethal injection. If the vet is well practiced and does it correctly, there is not a problem.

I think what it all boils down to, with both methods, is expertise of the practitioner.


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## Amymay (3 August 2011)

Wagtail said:



			I think it should always be done with sedation first, just like it is when horses are put under for operations.
		
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Of course - it still doesn't, in some cases, stop the bad reactions though.


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## Pearlsasinger (3 August 2011)

Wagtail said:



			Why didn't she sedate?
		
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No idea, vet's decision.  She probably felt that the mare was so ill that it wasn't necessary.


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## Amymay (3 August 2011)

Wagtail said:



			If the vet is well practiced and does it correctly, there is not a problem.
		
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Again, sorry to quible - but I simply don't think you can say that.  Physiologically some horses fight against the affects of the drugs, and it does not go as planned - even with the most experienced vets.


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## Wagtail (3 August 2011)

amymay said:



			Again, sorry to quible - but I simply don't think you can say that.  Physiologically some horses fight against the affects of the drugs, and it does not go as planned - even with the most experienced vets.
		
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Undoubtably, some horses need larger doses than others. We have a horse on our yard that needs twice the dose of sedative than others of his weight. But the same things happen to horses being put under for operations and people don't view it as a major problem. If it goes wrong another injection is given. I would much rather the injection go wrong than the gun.

If everything goes to plan, then both methods are equally humane, but if something goes wrong I know which method would be the least distressing to witness.


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## Amymay (3 August 2011)

If everything goes to plan, then both methods are equally humane, but if something goes wrong I know which method would be the least distressing to witness.
		
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I can't disagree with you on that.


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## JessnGeorge (3 August 2011)

I think what it all boils down to, with both methods, is expertise of the practitioner.[/QUOTE]

Wagtail, I agree entirely, have had two pts in my horseriding career one with injection, other with bolt, as I was a kid and young teenager at the time my dad held them as I was too distressed, but would far prefer the instancy of shooting (either hunt or Vet with bolt). Not hard or unkind and it is everyone's right to decide what is best but I know that if they are gone instantly it must be less stressful although not pleasant to witness (and have seen both scenarious since my boys went).


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## Damnation (3 August 2011)

My mare was PTS via lethal injection. It took 3 doses before she died. It wasn't traumatic for her in any way, and it was over within a few minutes, she won't have felt anything. But if I had a choice I would get the hunt out. There just wasn't time last time, it all happened very quickly.


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## Vindaloo (3 August 2011)

Wagtail said:



			I don't know where all these stories about the injection come from. I think it is an old fashioned view and that perhaps in the past there were problems. But the procedure is so refined now that there are no problems. Certainly the three that I have witnessed have been very straight forward. The horse is sedated first and this can make a horse sway. Maybe this is what people are mistakenly referring to when they say the horse fights to stay on its feet. The lethal injection is then given and the horse drops immediately to the ground and is unconscious before it reaches the floor. There is no jerking of the limbs like with the gun, though there can be some heavy expirations of air but the horse is fully unconscious as its body painlessly shuts down.
		
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Well one of those stories I related myself on here some time back.  I had a terrible, terrible time putting my old boy down.  I personally, going forward, would always opt for the gun.  Out of the three I have had to deal with two went wrong, both via injection (mine ultimately had to be shot in any case) and one was quick and painless, he was shot and knew nothing about it.


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## Maesfen (3 August 2011)

Hunt or knackerman every time for me.  There are very few vets I would trust to do it properly nowadays.


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## flyingfeet (3 August 2011)

I've seen both, and would choose the hunt if possible

The injection was too prolonged for me, and plus most of my horses are not a huge fans of injections. 

I can understand both point of view, so its a great thing that we have a choice

As for the poor horse running around, well ours are always eating something nice (unlikely to move) and in an enclosed yard. I sincerely hope the last thing they remember is lots of pats, hugs and a tasty treat.


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## joelb (3 August 2011)

Gruesome story but I have a friend who had her Shire dispatched by gun many moons ago.  After hed pts the vet went inside, reassured her it was for the best etc then left.  She went back to the stable to say her goodbyes and found the poor horse up on his knees dragging his paralyzed hind legs behind him.  Thankfully mobile phones were the new craze so the vet was back within a short time to do a proper job.  He was absolutely mortified and said it happened because of the thickness of bone.  Shes a tough cookie and a farmers daughter and wife but since this shes taken her horses to Turners.  Personally Im too fluffy for the gun but if circumstances dictated Id do whatever was needed to release my horse from pain.


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## Ranyhyn (3 August 2011)

This is a totally terrifying read for someone who has been incredibly lucky and not had to have a horse put down so far


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## TBB (3 August 2011)

I have held five to be put down by injection, all were done in the field and none were sedated beforehand. The vet just injected them and they went down calmly and peacefully with no after movements or struggle at all. The same vet did all five and is very good at it, he says the secret is to use the right amount of stuff to do the particular animal and to do it quickly (each required more than one syringe and the second one was in immediately no hesitation getting organised.) He says any vet can make an error trying to cure an animal, from time to time, but no vet should make a mistake putting down an animal. I wouldnt use any other vet for the job. I know things can go wrong, an equine vet arrived in a neighbours yard to do some routine work only to leave nearly immediately after getting a call to say that the foal he PUT DOWN at the previous yard he was at had got up!.


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## Hairy Old Cob (3 August 2011)

Hunt or Licencesed Horse slaughterer with a pistol every time over injection, their are few large animal vets capable of carrying out humane shooting of horses and ponies as they just do not get enough experience. With regard to the earlier poster who Stated Chinese whispers I couldnt agree more the poster who stated one shot blew off half the ponies face Absolute C*** but at this very distressing time it is understanable how things get blown (no pun intended) out of proportion, and I have heard of one person who the vet took 5 attempts to shoot the horse,He was a small animal vet, a good man knows his limitations. 

The best Horse/Large Animal Vet I have ever known told me it is a very skilled job to shoot a horse and he described a Local Horse Slaughterer as an artist with how he carried out his trade.


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## Addicted to Hunting (3 August 2011)

I would choose the hunt for mine, and hopefully they would be avaiable for us fairly quickly, I've had a few friends who've needed horses PTS ask me for the hunts details to do it, and they have all been very impressed and would choose them again, I know that everything can go wrong at times though. I'm very surprised it was able to run around the field tho as 'most' will do them in an enclosed space or keep hold, but you never know the indvuail circumstances, and has it is a very distressing time then everything does seem worse. In an emergency if the vet was there first then yes I would let them PTS with the injection, but mine mare will fight sedation anyway so wouldn't choose this option unless nessecary, would much rather she was shot and went to the hunt, but then mine are hunters and to be fair before I hunted alot I wasn't sure if I would send them there, but now I would!


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## Auslander (3 August 2011)

team barney said:



			A friend had her horse shot, I wasn't there when it happened but apparently the first attempt went wrong a blew half her poor horse's face off.  I would always opt for the injection since knowing what happened to that horse.  I want to be there at the end for my horses but couldn't face it if it went wrong like that.
		
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What did they use? A cannon? A single shot with a free bullet CANNOT blow half a horse face off? Someone along the line is exaggerating wildly...


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## Ibblebibble (3 August 2011)

no matter how it is done it is always distressing for the owner, whichever way you choose should feel right for you.
 stories about horses being PTS are rather like the stories you get told of childbirth when you're pregnant! everyone has a horror story to tell you, 
when my TB broke her leg she was down in the field and no miracle was going to enable her to stand or fight so she had the injection, it was right in those circumstances. when the day comes that one of the others has to go i'll make my decision on which method to use based on the circumstances rather than being swayed by horror stories


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## fburton (3 August 2011)

Auslander said:



			What did they use? A cannon? A single shot with a free bullet CANNOT blow half a horse face off? Someone along the line is exaggerating wildly...
		
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An exit wound couldn't give that impression?


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## fburton (3 August 2011)

Ibblebibble said:



			no matter how it is done it is always distressing for the owner, whichever way you choose should feel right for you.
 stories about horses being PTS are rather like the stories you get told of childbirth when you're pregnant! everyone has a horror story to tell you, 
when my TB broke her leg she was down in the field and no miracle was going to enable her to stand or fight so she had the injection, it was right in those circumstances. when the day comes that one of the others has to go i'll make my decision on which method to use based on the circumstances rather than being swayed by horror stories

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Wise words!


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## Auslander (3 August 2011)

fburton said:



			An exit wound couldn't give that impression?
		
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Thing is, the sort of gun used, and the distance from where the shot is fired would make it very unlikely that the bullet would ever exit. If a hollow point bullet is used - it would mushroom on impact, and hypothetically, would leave a larger hole on exit than it made on entry. However, it's very unlikely that they would exit, and certainly not through bone. A lead slug could exit, but would not make much of a hole.


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## _MizElz_ (3 August 2011)

Sorry if someone else has already picked up on this point, but I'm replying before reading to the end...



Wagtail said:



			If everything goes to plan, then both methods are equally humane, but if something goes wrong I know which method would be the least *distressing to witness*.
		
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It may well be the case that the injection 'going wrong' would be the least distressing to witness - for the owner. But for the horse? At least rectification via a bullet is instant; administering a further dose of lethal injection is NOT instant - far from it. Give me the gun any day - I've no doubt that it's worse for the owner, but IMO it has to be better for the horse - and that is what really matters.


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## tallyho! (3 August 2011)

Gruesome stories. I hope mine drifts away in sleep either naturally or induced.

However traditional, I can't stand to see anything shot in the head. I have seen it done accidentally while looking through a window towards the stud next door at an Aunt's house in Badminton - I watched this gorgeous horse being led thinking it was being turned out and then a man came out with a shotgun and just stood in front of it and fired - I almost fell over backwards at the shock of it.


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## teamsarazara (3 August 2011)

A yard along the road from us had a horse shot, while tied to a tree and the first time didnt work so it got up, thrashing about and was shot again. I just dont think this is right


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## jadelovescassie (3 August 2011)

I've not had to have a horse PTS yet, thankfully, and I hope nothing happens to my mare anytime soon.

However, I would opt for the injection and that is just my personal choice, I am too fluffy for the gun but that's just me. At the end of the day each method has it's risks and 'what ifs' involved. Something could go wrong with shooting, something could go wrong with injection, you just don't know and by the sounds of it, it often depends on circumstance which method you go with!


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## team barney (3 August 2011)

Auslander said:



			What did they use? A cannon? A single shot with a free bullet CANNOT blow half a horse face off? Someone along the line is exaggerating wildly...
		
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As I said I wasn't there thankfully.  She may have been exaggerating a little, the wounds may have seemed worse to her than they actually were but I doubt it, she wasn't that sort of person to exaggerate.  

I don't know what gun was used but from what I know of guns they can quite easily blow someones head off, a shotgun at close range would decimate anything (I realise the gun in question was not likely to be a shotgun) not only cannons cause such destruction.

From what I understood the horse threw it's head and ended up with very horrific wounds, I didn't wish to pry as it was clearly a terribly distressing time for my friend so I don't know massive amounts of detail, to be honest I didn't/don't want to hear the ins and outs of what happened.


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## meandmyself (3 August 2011)

I'd choose the shot over the injection, especially with a sick horse or one with compromised circulation where it can take much longer for the drugs to work. 

I have heard of a horse being shot and not going down. The gelding was a large draught who was shot by an experienced man, but there was a problem with the round. A second shot killed the horse.

I would not have a captive bolt unless there was no other choice. I read a study that found they weren't suitable for horses.


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## superted1989 (3 August 2011)

I would go with shooting by choice.  However, the 'knackerman' here is very old and (Chinese whispers time!!), I have heard that the only other person who is able to shoot does it because he enjoys it!  The old man has done all of my horses in the past, when it's been their time, I have always held them, they didn't know anything about it and the chap is so skilled I doubt they even noticed he was carrying a pistol.  Last year, my old Welsh still had his extra strong mint in his mouth when he went down.  Yes, there was the odd breath and the movement from 'the final gallop', but he was gone.
A few months ago, I held a friend's old mare while she was PTS by injection.  The vet was using a different drug, she said, and it did seem much more peaceful than other injections I've witnessed.  Sedation first, then she really did seem to just fall asleep.  Might just have been that particular mare, or, it really is a better drug (I've not been with an injected horse for some years).


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## tallyho! (3 August 2011)

Chemical euthanasia usually uses barbiturates first which induces pre-aneasthesia sleep before administering the actual drug. It's the same as is used in humans.

How can that be worse than blowing a horses brains out?


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## montysmum1 (3 August 2011)

I've used a hunt and bullet twice and vet and bullet once. Vet expressed relief when I said I preferred bullet to injection as quicker for horse, though yes more traumatic for me perhaps. No drama. Would always choose bullet.


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## Holly Hocks (3 August 2011)

Auslander said:



			What did they use? A cannon? A single shot with a free bullet CANNOT blow half a horse face off? Someone along the line is exaggerating wildly...
		
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I hope you never have to see a suicide then where someone has shot themself as it will be far worse than you willl be expecting.  Enough said on that.


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## Echo Bravo (3 August 2011)

Well my old mare, who is a complete nightmare when she sees anything that looks like a syringe, will be shot when her time comes. You have to go by what the horse needs, not by what you want. Would you ask for your horse to be injected when his/hers front leg had been shattered and great pain. I would ask for the fasted thing to end their pain. A Bullet.


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## Merry Crisis (3 August 2011)

I live in Cumbria, the worst county affected by Foot and Mouth in 2001. Having had the farm I was living on taken out, I took a job with MAFF soon to be DEFRA. I had to supervise the death of thousands of cattle, sheep and their lambs. Injection was not an option, captive bullet was, they then had to have their spinal cords severed by a pith rod. It was a dramatic death to say the least, especially in the quantity of those slaughtered. Having said all this, shooting is the way I have had my horses put down. A hunstman or slaughterman is used to dealing with the euthenasia of stock, a vet is under pressure, he is more used to mending animals, it is not something vets deal with on a daily basis, other than small animals.


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## AMH (3 August 2011)

Re the OP being from a friend of a friend, I did leave out the gruesome details, but the friend who told me was present and witnessed it, since her horse is turned out with the one which was put down. I wanted to provoke a debate and hear people's experiences to better inform me when the inevitable day arrives. I'd never heard the injection being a problem - my family have had 3 elderly ponies despatched this way and one was down in the field when the vet arrived. As we've said before, it depends on circs


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## AMH (3 August 2011)

Damned phone! Depends on circs but this had made me think hard about whether I'm squeamish about the bullet is actually in the horse's best interests.


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## Auslander (3 August 2011)

Holly Hocks said:



			I hope you never have to see a suicide then where someone has shot themself
		
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So do I. 
Completely different to a horse (with much denser bone than a human skull) being shot with the appropriate weapon by an experienced practitioner. I explained myself more clearly in a subsequent post - and based my answers on the reaction of a friend who was here earlier, and knows about both weapons and horses - he's an army vet.


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## Goldenstar (3 August 2011)

My old friend went this afternoon.
I always have them shot by the vet because if necessary they can have a little bit of sedation.
The Hunt kennels then pick them up.
I saw many horses pts when I was welfare officer personally I think shooting is easier on the horse.
I have never heard of that sort disaster happening with a hunt servant before they take a pride in the quiet calm way they do this difficult thing . the person concerned will mortified.
If the horse is large and a bit head shy a small amount of sedation helps all round.
I feel crap at the moment My old boy was such a gent and I will miss him so much.


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## millhouse (3 August 2011)

Sorry Goldenstar for your loss.  May your boy rest in peace.


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## WinniethePoo (3 August 2011)

Having had or seen four PTS, I would go for the humane killer every time, done properly it is instantaneous and immediate, which is the best we can all hope for.


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## meandmyself (3 August 2011)

Plus, if you have them shot you have more options to dispose of the body rather than being limited due to the fact that they're full of drugs. 

Sorry you lost your boy, Goldenstar!


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## pizzi (4 August 2011)

Happened out hunting. Horse wasn't shot properly ,  horrendous...I have always got the vet to PTS mine at home with injection-didn't know anything about it - very quiet and dignified end.

However, I have seen other horses PTS with gun and it was very quick and horses didn't know anything about it.


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## Ranyhyn (4 August 2011)

Sorry to read that Goldenstar  rip lad x


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## fburton (4 August 2011)

So can we all agree?... Done properly, for the vast majority of horses, both methods are quick and humane, and entail no suffering whatsoever. 

Because if that isn't right, and one method fails - i.e. causes the horse to suffer - significantly more often than the other, wouldn't the vet profession be obliged to alter the guidelines for equine euthanasia? Obviously, in a small number of cases, one or other method may be unsuitable for medical or practical reasons; and in a larger number of cases may be preferred for personal or practical (but not medical) reasons.


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## Luci07 (4 August 2011)

and one other thing - vets have strong preferences as well so some will only inject, some will only shoot and if you have very strong feelings then it is best to talk to your vet first. Might seem obvious but I have known people caught out by this. My old boy was injected although I had always planned for a bullet. The reason being that when his time came he was very poor and we had had a day of trying to get him back up. He went immediately. However, if it had been when he was younger and fitter, he would have fought the sedation ( I can say this having watched him undergo colic surgery - 6 hours and he fought the sedation all the way). 

I have held friends horses who have been shot and its been very very quick. It has been a long time since I have had to consider this and hope it will still be a long time off still.


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## turkana (4 August 2011)

I always choose shooting - I thinks it's worse for the owner but better for the horse as death is instant, whereas the injection takes a few seconds.

A friend of mine had hers put down by injection, she didn't want to be there so her husband stayed with the horse, he struggled & fought against the sedation; the husband told me what happened, he said it was the worse thing he'd ever seen & he found it very upsetting. He was a real macho man, so for him to admit to being upset it must have been bad. He swore me to secrecy so she was never told.

I've heard a few horror stories about horses waking up after the injection as well, so when my old mare needed putting down with a twisted gut I chose shooting; when the man from the Grafton came for her there were already 2 dead horses in the back of his van, the thought of her waking up in a lorry with 2 dead bodies doesn't bare thinking about so I'm glad there was no chance of that happening. 

At the end of the day it's a personal choice, we have to do what seems best at the time; although the injection is not for me; if others decide it's what they want, that's fair enough.


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## CarolineDAEP (4 August 2011)

Personally I favour shooting, but in an unplanned situation if the vet wanted to inject I wouldn't insist on anything else


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## flyingfeet (4 August 2011)

Well its a horrible subject and thing to go through - no matter what

I think its good to have a plan in the back of your mind to stop sheer panic 

I know my father was seriously affected when he had to shoot his own horse. This was in the case of 1 hour for the hunt, 45 mins for the vet and was in the case where the floor in an ifor trailer had gone and basically severed both back legs. He couldn't let his horse stay in that state for that long so took the decision to shoot with a shotgun whilst his poor boy was in shock. 

I am not sure I could do that, but it was the best decision for the horses sake (Ifor paid up as it was a fault with their trailers)


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## Neddies (4 August 2011)

The hunt came out to shoot my riding instructors elderly pony, they made such an appalling hash of it her and her husband vowed they'd never have them set foot in their yard again. 

In the past we've used the local slaughterman who was very very efficient and in most recent times the vet who uses the injection. No bad experiences with either method, i think it's down to the efficiency of the person doing it.


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## Suechoccy (4 August 2011)

My shetland was shot by the vet.  I fed her a carrot. bang. she was instantly dead, still standing up (the life went out of her eyes) and she fell to the floor lifeless. Man who came to take her body away said the carrot was still between her teeth.
She knew absolutely nothing about it.
There was some blood from her (mouth or nose) but that's to be expected with a bullet.

I was so "impressed" (if that's the right word), that I've got on my horse-sitter's notes that should either of my current horses need killing, please can they try to get the same vet with his gun if possible in timely fashion.  But if not, then another vet and an injection.


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## bumblelion (4 August 2011)

In an emergency and the horse was in pain, I'd go with whoever could get to me the quickest! If I made the decision to have one of mine PTS due to old age or a long term medical decision which wouldn't improve and the horse had no quality of life and it wasn't an emergency but planned, I would have the injection as none of mine mind needles but they can be funny about things being hidden from them, constantly suspicious (I think they would think it was a wormer coming!!!). I'v never seen a horse be shot but I'm presuming they put the gun behind their back as they approach the horse? See this would freak my horses, both can be a bit headshy (one is bolshy and I think previous owner used to whack across face to teach him and other is a touchy tb!!). So I wouldn't rule out either, it just depends on the situation!


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## cbmcts (4 August 2011)

bumblelion said:



			I'v never seen a horse be shot but I'm presuming they put the gun behind their back as they approach the horse? See this would freak my horses, both can be a bit headshy (one is bolshy and I think previous owner used to whack across face to teach him and other is a touchy tb!!). So I wouldn't rule out either, it just depends on the situation!
		
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The knackermen that I've always used have a handgun with a free bullet that they keep in their pocket until they need it - they stroke and talk to the horse and then just bring the gun up, hidden in their hand IYSWIM. 

My preference is always for the gun if at all possible - very quick and we are lucky enough to have very quick to arrive and efficient knackermen locally (Martins of Great Notley, Essex - I'd recommend them to anyone) who are also great horsemen. I've had them out late on Christmas Eve when a horse broke his leg and they were there within the hour and were very patient about waiting until we could get the body to their lorry as it was 3 fields away from the road...tbh, I was expecting them to say that they would collect after Christmas as they had more than done their duty by putting him out of misery.

I've held horses that have been PTS by injection but it seems so slow to me, not a logical reaction I know.


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## tori252 (4 August 2011)

My old boy was put down by a family friend (mark chambers) and spemt a lpng tome allpwong my friend to eat all hos favourote things. Then he was shot. No panic no mess and very professional goodbye to my old man. Would recommend mark any day


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## tallyho! (4 August 2011)

Well you see here, I think I've learnt reading all replies that it's not what you do, it's the way that you do it.

I'm still not convinced I'd shoot my best mate... but if it was quick and the most painless given the circumstance in the future, I may draw upon the experience of others and make up my mind.

Right now, I'll sit on the fence.


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## Dancing Queen (4 August 2011)

there is no way i would ever have my animals any of them shot. I think its disgusting and a degrading way to die. To point a gun and pull the trigger is to kill, not to PTS as some like to say, but to Kill. What a way to die  - after your animal has served you so well, a decent and dignified death is not seen fit - Yet a shooting is. 

This is my personal opinion and in no doubt certain people will jump on and disagree.


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## miss_c (4 August 2011)

Dancing Queen said:



			there is no way i would ever have my animals any of them shot. I think its disgusting and a degrading way to die. To point a gun and pull the trigger is to kill, not to PTS as some like to say, but to Kill. What a way to die  - after your animal has served you so well, a decent and dignified death is not seen fit - Yet a shooting is. 

This is my personal opinion and in no doubt certain people will jump on and disagree.
		
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Yup I disagree.     However when it comes to this it is very much a case of each to their own.

My personal preference is for the bullet.  It's instant and the horse knows nothing - they do not see a gun and think 'oh no, it's a gun!'.  Yes it is more distressing for the humans, but the horse really doesn't associate guns with death.

However my old mare was put down by injection.  She was on the fast lane of the M5 and it simply was not practical to wait for a knackerman.  The vet arrived and had the necessary medication and that was it.  I wasn't with her but they told me she didn't fight it at all (not that she could, but that's another story).  However with a horse that is wary of vets I can see why the injection may not be a good option.

At the end of the day, no matter what we call it, you are ending a horse's life.  Euthanasia, put down, put to sleep, kill, it is all the same outcome and the main thing to me is that it is as quick and painless to the horse as possible - THAT is a dignified death, not being kept alive because the owner cannot bare to make the necessary decision.


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## ExpressPrincess (4 August 2011)

I had my mare PTS on Monday after a horrific accident, have always said the hunt would do it but in a panic i called the vet (dont even know my local hunt as fairly new to the area etc) Vet PTS with sedative, then canulated the vein in case she moved and then gave the injection, quick and professional. Only problem was that the vet took a hour and a half to arrive due to traffic!!! It was a true emergency situation! Horse had nearly bled out by the time she arrived so was worried there would be no blood pressure for injection to work but it did and quickly, only problem is that vet also (kindly at the time) arranged collection by a fallen stock agency no 1. Insurance company have asked for a post mortem and body has been disposed of (Cause is obvious vet photographed it all so hoping to avoid this!!!). 2. no one seems to know the cost! So a bit annoyed i might be landed with a £900 bill just for cremation when the hunt would have done the whole lot for about £200. Overall considering the circumstances a good experience, my lesson from this is that i will be moving vets to a more local one in case i ever have another emergency especially if it was life and death not just to PTS!!!


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## miss_c (5 August 2011)

HingeFarm said:



			I had my mare PTS on Monday after a horrific accident, have always said the hunt would do it but in a panic i called the vet (dont even know my local hunt as fairly new to the area etc) Vet PTS with sedative, then canulated the vein in case she moved and then gave the injection, quick and professional. Only problem was that the vet took a hour and a half to arrive due to traffic!!! It was a true emergency situation! Horse had nearly bled out by the time she arrived so was worried there would be no blood pressure for injection to work but it did and quickly, only problem is that vet also (kindly at the time) arranged collection by a fallen stock agency no 1. Insurance company have asked for a post mortem and body has been disposed of (Cause is obvious vet photographed it all so hoping to avoid this!!!). 2. no one seems to know the cost! So a bit annoyed i might be landed with a £900 bill just for cremation when the hunt would have done the whole lot for about £200. Overall considering the circumstances a good experience, my lesson from this is that i will be moving vets to a more local one in case i ever have another emergency especially if it was life and death not just to PTS!!!
		
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Sorry you lost your horse.  I was in a very similar situation with my old mare - collection was not arranged by me and it took me over 24 hours to find out who had collected her, by which time she had alread been cremated.  I had no idea of the cost until the bill was sent to me after I made contact with the chap who collected her - I think it was about £300 from my recollection.  I too was worried about the insurance company wanting post mortem but they were very understanding and as it was obvious what her cause of death had been they said it was not necessary.  I hope your insurance company does the same for you (I was with Petplan at the time).


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## ExpressPrincess (5 August 2011)

miss_c said:



			Sorry you lost your horse.  I was in a very similar situation with my old mare - collection was not arranged by me and it took me over 24 hours to find out who had collected her, by which time she had alread been cremated.  I had no idea of the cost until the bill was sent to me after I made contact with the chap who collected her - I think it was about £300 from my recollection.  I too was worried about the insurance company wanting post mortem but they were very understanding and as it was obvious what her cause of death had been they said it was not necessary.  I hope your insurance company does the same for you (I was with Petplan at the time).
		
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Good to hear im not the only one, Im a nurse currently working on a Trauma ward at a hospital and im socked with how badly i handled the whole horse situation! Really felt like i was losing my child (i have children so its not an empty statement) could not even remember my address on the phone to the vet! I know the company that collected her but not the cremation method apparently there are 3! 1. Group cremation, 2. Group cremation with token ashes and 3. Sole cremation with return of sole ashes. I am meant to have ticked a box but if i did i dont remember - i was not there at collection as i had said my goodbyes and sat with her for a while but could not load the body. I am with KBIS and they have been great so far got the necessary forms 2 days after my call with a nice (standard im sure) covering letter and will send to the vets to complete tomorrow. Sorry you have been through the same .


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## DanMurphy (7 August 2011)

My last two horses were put to sleep by lethal injection, administered by an experienced horse vet. There was no stress or fuss - it went smoothly and quickly, and the end was peaceful for them.  This is the method I personally would always use when the time comes.


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## Persephone (7 August 2011)

I really don't care how it is done, as long as it is quick.

I was in a situation recently where my mare broke her hindleg horrifically and we had to wait for the vet to put her down.

Don't get me wrong, the vet was pretty quick arriving, but if I had a gun I would have shot her myself just to end it


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## Rosehip (7 August 2011)

I have always ben a jab person myself. Having had 2 put down by injection with no problems, and having seen a ewe shot 4 times before we were sure she was dead (a dog attack had broken her back) I cant honestly say I would want my animals shot. However in an emergency, where the vet was unable to get to any of mine and they were bleeding out/had a compound fracture etc, I would not hesitate to shoot. 
My vet is 10 mins from me, my local hunt over half an hour....although it is illegal (god knows why) my OH is a good shot and so are several other people I know. 

I think when one is covered in blood with a clearly distressed animal, you would do whateverr is nessesary to put the animal out of pain.


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## Pearlsasinger (7 August 2011)

A mare local to me was involved in a RTA late one Sunday evening, having escaped from her field.  The poor thing was horrifically injured.  The only person who could get there in decent time was the local rabbit-shooter.  He despatched the mare asap.  The knacker then collected her about an hour later.  No-one seemed to be able to get hold of a vet who was near enough to come out.


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## Jesstickle (7 August 2011)

I am lucky and haven't ever had to make this decision for any of mine. I'd opt for the bullet given the choice though. We had a couple at work shot and they were dead instantly. I don't think animals like being hazy very much. Nitty hates being sedated, you can see she really struggles to compute why she is so spacey. I wouldn't want that to be the last thing they experienced. Obviously, in an emergency, anyone who could do it quickly and efficiently would do though.


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## indie999 (7 August 2011)

Sounds very unfortunate but our local hunt very good and whilst eating a carrot.... bang dead!

Have heard injection can take a while etc. But very unfortunate for your friend and the horse.

I have no idea whats the best method overall


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