# Stick to what you know!



## VoR (18 October 2011)

Anyone seen the bl**dy infuriating 'appeal' on LACS site? Apparently we are all bullies and thugs, whilst Ms Alesha Dixon clearly believes that everyone who is involved with LACS are perfect angels in every way.

Not only is she a dance 'expert' sitting on a panel judging ballroom dancing....not sure what her qualifications are for that other than she was the best of a bad bunch of 'celebrities'(?) in a competition once...but  now it seems she is expert in all things 'country' as she was 'brought up in the countryside' (how bl**dy 'countryside is Welwyn Garden City then??? ) with all the lovely fluffy 'innocent' animals.

Ms Dixon, please grow up and stop spouting emotive twaddle that has been scripted for you!  If you are such a staunch supporter of 'the league' how come there is no reference to this on the 'official Alesha Dixon website'? 

The judges marks are in....Alesha Dixon...ZERO (for credibility)!

Blimey, need a sit down now!


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## wench (18 October 2011)

She can't sing either....


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## Tinkerbee (18 October 2011)

Not quite sure I'd class where she grew up as countryside but anywho...


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## PorkChop (18 October 2011)

Although it infuriates me - she is entitled to an opinion, however misfounded 

Would you turn her away if she had chosen to support hunting etc?  I personally don't think people will automatically start supporting lacs because of it.


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## PorkChop (18 October 2011)

However completely agree with you VoR re why is it not mentioned on her own website


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## VoR (18 October 2011)

LJR said:



			Although it infuriates me - she is entitled to an opinion, however misfounded 

Would you turn her away if she had chosen to support hunting etc?  I personally don't think people will automatically start supporting lacs because of it.
		
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I am always saying that everyone is entitled to THEIR opinion LJR, I strongly believe that there is the pro-hunting view, the anti-hunting view and in the middle, somewhere, hidden by the fact that the most extreme shout the loudest,get heard the most but have no constructive plans to make things right for all, is a solution. That really isn't my point, my point is she is 'pontifcating' about the rights and wrongs of country pursuits under the guise that;

a) She is a 'country-girl'...from Welwyn Garden City(!!!) and;

b) All the little animals are fluffy and lovely and 'innocent'(???)....a view which depends on whether a fox has just killed you hens, lambs, etc, etc I guess, and;

c) She is a fine up-standing supporter of LACS....despite no mention on her own website, which doesn't really show much commitment to 'the cause' and;

d) All hunt supporters are thugs and bullies (para-phrasing the content of her 'appeal'), thereby inferring that all LACS supporters are 'jolly-nice-chaps'. BOTH sides have their 'extremists' as far as I can see. I am not a thug nor a bully and neither are the people I hunt with but all of us when pushed have the capacity to lose control!!

So, I ask, IS this HER opinion????

Would I turn her away if she was pro-hunting, well if she lacked credibility, yes, as it could do more harm than good!

Next she'll be saying we never, wash-up, clean-up or brush-up!!!


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## madeleine1 (18 October 2011)

i dnt no how they can say the 75 % of the public are in favour of anything. as only a tiny percent ever vote on anything.

and like ******* is the countryside all happy safe and peacefull. that is such a false view of the world and animals. 

arrrrgggghhh proper angry. 

i didnt realise how much you were judged for hunting till i told some of my friends that i am going and suddenly they went from sensible humans to raving children. its all very strange and i like hunting


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## kryten (19 October 2011)

She is, of course, perfectly entitled to her opinion and if her involvement with LACS isn't on her website, then that's really neither here nor there, she has nothing to hide!


I get a little tired of seeing this 'antis know nothing' argument and would really like to know exactly what this means. Is there a big secret that you haven't told antis, and, if you did reveal it, would antis then become hunt supporters?

This lady grew up in the countryside and, apparently, this doesn't qualify her to be anti hunting with hounds. Why? I live in the country and I am anti, but I never understand why this means I can be dismissed as an anti because I 'know nothing' about hunting. I do, actually, and I still disapprove of it!

If it's one of those 'don't knock it until you try it' arguments, then that too holds no logic. I don't like dog fighting, but I don't have to try it, to know I don't like it!


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## Shantara (19 October 2011)

kryten said:



			She is, of course, perfectly entitled to her opinion and if her involvement with LACS isn't on her website, then that's really neither here nor there, she has nothing to hide!


I get a little tired of seeing this 'antis know nothing' argument and would really like to know exactly what this means. Is there a big secret that you haven't told antis, and, if you did reveal it, would antis then become hunt supporters?

This lady grew up in the countryside and, apparently, this doesn't qualify her to be anti hunting with hounds. Why? I live in the country and I am anti, but I never understand why this means I can be dismissed as an anti because I 'know nothing' about hunting. I do, actually, and I still disapprove of it!

If it's one of those 'don't knock it until you try it' arguments, then that too holds no logic. I don't like dog fighting, but I don't have to try it, to know I don't like it!
		
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Totally agree with this. 
I think hunters have to realise 'anti's' aren't all bunny hugging loons who know nothing. I know about hunting and still don't want to. I do like to shoot foxes, but with my camera. 
I wouldn't protest though...well, my own little personal protest is not riding Ned in the hunt, but rather taking him in the school 
I'd go on a drag hunt, I just don't fancy seeing an animal killed. That's not just reserved to foxes, I wouldn't want to see anything killed, really. 
If you want to go and hunt, fine. But please don't think all 'anti's are stupid, I've seen it a lot and I think it's silly.


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## Mithras (19 October 2011)

Without even getting into the merits, can I just say that I can't stand the way Alesha Dixon is promoted as some kind of role model by the BBC.  I'm not a middle aged man, funnily enough therefore I don't find her attractive and I prefer role models who do something with their education and brain, not a (very limited) amount of talent.  Even if she were a model who had been internationally successful, I would be more interested in hearing what she had to say.  Her attachment to a cause is to me a sign of deep levels of inherent stupidity and gullibility within that cause.

I can't stand that Strictly Ballroom Dancing programme either!  If only they would show some more sport on prime time tv and tell us the stories behind some of our talented athletes instead.


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## kryten (19 October 2011)

Mithras said:



			Without even getting into the merits, can I just say that I can't stand the way Alesha Dixon is promoted as some kind of role model by the BBC.  I'm not a middle aged man, funnily enough therefore I don't find her attractive and I prefer role models who do something with their education and brain, not a (very limited) amount of talent.  Even if she were a model who had been internationally successful, I would be more interested in hearing what she had to say.  Her attachment to a cause is to me a sign of deep levels of inherent stupidity and gullibility within that cause.

I can't stand that Strictly Ballroom Dancing programme either!  If only they would show some more sport on prime time tv and tell us the stories behind some of our talented athletes instead.
		
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Well, Mithras, it's quite clear that you are of the pro hunt school of thought but maybe you're in denial!

'Her attachment to a cause is to me a sign of deep levels of inherent stupidity and gullibility within that cause'

Sour grapes!


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## VoR (19 October 2011)

kryten said:



			She is, of course, perfectly entitled to her opinion and if her involvement with LACS isn't on her website, then that's really neither here nor there, she has nothing to hide! Agree everyone IS entitled to their opinion, for god's sake read the posts. The fact that she does not mention her Vice-Presidency on her website suggests SHE feels it is something to hide rather than promote surely? Or does she think it might affect record sales?


I get a little tired of seeing this 'antis know nothing' argument and would really like to know exactly what this means. Is there a big secret that you haven't told antis, and, if you did reveal it, would antis then become hunt supporters?Again, read the posts, if you care to take note I do not at any time say she or any anti knows nothing, only that she gives a VERY one-sided view and not wholly truthful at that. As I have posted on a number of occasions there are two sides to every argument, LACS see hunting as cruel, others see it is a wildlife management process, I refuse to get drawn in to an argument about that here. I guess the question could be turned around, is there some big secret that antis could come up with to prove that hunting is cruel? That may turn the pro-hunting groups!

This lady grew up in the countryside No she didn't, she says she did but actually she was raised in Welwyn Garden City, which, last time I looked was NOT a rural idyll, the fact she says she was brought up in the countryside is not a complete truth, which angers meand, apparently, this doesn't qualify her to be anti hunting with houndsno it doesn't say that it says, be open and honest and questions who's opinion she is actually putting forward. Why? I live in the country and I am antigood for you I've lived in the countryside all my life, I wasn't particularly pro hunting then about 8 years ago I was introduced to it, but I never understand why this means I can be dismissed as an anti because I 'know nothing' about hunting. I do, actually, and I still disapprove of itWell noone has said you don't know anything, bit of a complex there?!

If it's one of those 'don't knock it until you try it' argumentsread the posts, it is the inconsistency that wriles, then that too holds no logic. I don't like dog fightingnor do I nor cock-fighting, bear baiting, badger baiting, etc, etc, but I don't have to try it, to know I don't like it!and nor do I

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Finally if you look at the 'appeal' and read the post, you'll see that I am also annoyed at being labelled a thug and a bullly, that is a personal slight and a rash generalisation, I am big enough to admit that hunt supporters have on occasions gone too far, I have yet to come across and anti who will admit that their followers have done the same.


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## VoR (19 October 2011)

Annielusian said:



			Totally agree with this. 
I think hunters have to realise 'anti's' aren't all bunny hugging loons who know nothing. I know about hunting and still don't want to. I do like to shoot foxes, but with my camera. 
I wouldn't protest though...well, my own little personal protest is not riding Ned in the hunt, but rather taking him in the school 
I'd go on a drag hunt, I just don't fancy seeing an animal killed. That's not just reserved to foxes, I wouldn't want to see anything killed, really. 
If you want to go and hunt, fine. But please don't think all 'anti's are stupid, I've seen it a lot and I think it's silly.
		
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Do you eat meat? Do you wear leather/have a leather handbag/leather saddle on your horse/other leather tack/leather boots? If so then I guess it's not about animals dying, just that you wouldn't want to see it, as £ to a pinch of salt not all the animals that died to provide those things were treated like little gods before their slaughter? 

How is riding in the school a protest? You've lost me on that one!

Can I just ask, where have I at any stage stated that all antis are stupid? Well, I'll tell you nowhere, however, apparently everyone who hunts is a thug and a bully, so who's generalising now?????


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## Shantara (19 October 2011)

You're right, I don't want to _see_ animals die. I know it's not pretty in slaughter houses, I've seen enough programs. But there seems something different about a good slaughter house, killing instantly and chasing a fox around and finally killing it. 
Like I said, if you want to go and hunt, fine. I don't want to see. 

That bit about the school was more of a joke  There's meant to be a hunt this saturday and Ned's owner wants me to take him, but I don't want to go. 

I don't think hunters are thugs or bullies, I never said that. But apparently from other posts I've seen around here, 'anti's' are often thought of as annoying (I'm sure some of them are) and rather stupid. 
I have a lot of friends who hunt, but I don't bother trying to dissuade them, I just don't want to be a part of it.


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## RunToEarth (19 October 2011)

kryten said:



			She is, of course, perfectly entitled to her opinion and if her involvement with LACS isn't on her website, then that's really neither here nor there, she has nothing to hide!


I get a little tired of seeing this 'antis know nothing' argument and would really like to know exactly what this means. Is there a big secret that you haven't told antis, and, if you did reveal it, would antis then become hunt supporters?

This lady grew up in the countryside and, apparently, this doesn't qualify her to be anti hunting with hounds. Why? I live in the country and I am anti, but I never understand why this means I can be dismissed as an anti because I 'know nothing' about hunting. I do, actually, and I still disapprove of it!

If it's one of those 'don't knock it until you try it' arguments, then that too holds no logic. I don't like dog fighting, but I don't have to try it, to know I don't like it!
		
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I really, honestly, genuinely cannot see why it would matter where the hell you grew up in relation to how much you understood about hunting. 
I live in "the countryside" and there is a bird down the road who also lives "in the countryside" who once made a comment in passing that as long as we ate the foxes we hunted, then she was pro. You can't really get more misinformed than that unless you venture onto LACS website, and this misinformed bird lived "in the countryside"...no reallly!
It isn't a "don't knock it until you've tried it" and an "antis know nothing" kind of debate, but, as a pro hunting bod, when you spend hours of your time reading absolute tosh from the LACS website you do pick up that they generally know nothing about what they are debating. 
And my trail of thought is that if LACS themselves are completely clueless for the mostpart over the hunting argument, and don't seem to really have any substance behind why they are debating, then I tend to think it may be a case of the blind leading the blind. 
To most antis out there, LACS is a prime source of information. To most pros out there LACS is a prime source of misinformation, and that is why seasoned hunters, pros and families who have been in the sport for generations tend to believe that antis getting their info from LACS must be as naieve and backwards as LACS themselves. 
Personally from the antis I have met so far, I am not wrong in calling them backwards, and for reps of a league against cruel sports they don't half love to contradict themselves with the hounds when given the chance. 
Kryten- I would genuinely be interested to know where your knowledge of hunting comes from?


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## Starbucks (19 October 2011)

OMG how annoying!! Silly cow!!  Yes Alisha, if it wasn't for all the bullies with blood all over their faces, all the cute animals would live in perfect harmony. GET REAL!!


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## Starbucks (19 October 2011)

kryten said:



			Well, Mithras, it's quite clear that you are of the pro hunt school of thought but maybe you're in denial!

'Her attachment to a cause is to me a sign of deep levels of inherent stupidity and gullibility within that cause'

Sour grapes!
		
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Mithras probably said this because most people you meet, who are educated and not stuck up their own arse are actually pretty here nor there in their opinion on fox hunting, because they don't know what they are talking about!


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## Tinkerbee (20 October 2011)

I think some peoples issue (well mine anyway) is that as a pro I couldn't give a toss who is anti or who is pro. I have friends who are very anti, great for them, I don't try and "convert" them or drag them hunting with me. Antis however are always ramming their opinion down my throat, telling me I shouldn't hunt and attempted to stop me from doing so, be it through sabbing or through legislation. That is what pees me off. 

I have no problem with differing opinions, I just don't understand the need to STOP me.

The "grew up in the countryside" argument is also a load of tosh. I know plenty of people who have spent their whole life living where I do now, but wouldn't know one end of a cow from another. My OH grew up in a town and he's more "country" than the aforementioned people.

Also the fact that Miss Dixon starts out with a blatent lie about her childhood calls into disrepute all her following statements.


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## Herne (20 October 2011)

kryten said:



			I get a little tired of seeing this 'antis know nothing' argument and would really like to know exactly what this means. Is there a big secret that you haven't told antis
		
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No, it's not a secret and we have told antis it many times. It merely takes them a very long time to listen and even longer to actually *think* about what they have been told.

And it is simply this: It is a not a matter of choosing between foxes being hunted and foxes living happy lives. *Every* fox in the wild dies a nasty death - being hunted, being shot, being run over, being snared, disease, injury, infection, being forced out of its territory by a younger fox and starving, freezing to death, or whatever.

It is not a choice of nasty hunting vs nice life, it is a choice of which nasty death foxes are going to suffer.

And when you look properly at all of the options, and all of their implications, then being hunted, which ends in either a clean get away until next time or very quick death (relative to many of those other options) suddenly seems much less unattractive.

In the end, what we do to the fox is no different and no worse than what the fox itself does to the rabbit.





			and, if you did reveal it, would antis then become hunt supporters?
		
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Yes.

Richard Course and James Barrington were both Chief Executives of the League Against Cruel Sports and both came to the realisation that banning hunting would not improve animal welfare in the countryside and are now against the ban.

This is because in the position they reached, they had to look beyond the instant knee-jerk reaction of "Oh-it's-cute-don't-be-horrid-to-it" and actually formulate ideas about what happens to foxes that are not hunted.

And they came to identify the not-secret secret, exactly as I describe above.


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## VoR (20 October 2011)

RunToEarth said:



			I really, honestly, genuinely cannot see why it would matter where the hell you grew up in relation to how much you understood about hunting.
		
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Couldn't agree more, but the claiming of a countryside upbringing to give you view 'credibility', when actually you were born in a town does matter, it is quite blatant mis-information


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## VoR (20 October 2011)

Annielusian said:



			That bit about the school was more of a joke  There's meant to be a hunt this saturday and Ned's owner wants me to take him, but I don't want to go. 

I don't think hunters are thugs or bullies, I never said that. But apparently from other posts I've seen around here, 'anti's' are often thought of as annoying (I'm sure some of them are) and rather stupid. 
I have a lot of friends who hunt, but I don't bother trying to dissuade them, I just don't want to be a part of it.
		
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Pretty poor joke  Don't go to the hunt then, simple solution.

The quote about thugs and bullies is paraphrasing Ms Dixon's mis-informed statements.

Antis can show themselves up to be a bit less than informed by for instance refusing to accept that some of their number use intimidation. No not all of them are stupid, I would never generalise that much, just like not everyone who hunts is as Ms Dixon would have people imagine.


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## RunToEarth (20 October 2011)

Annielusian said:



			Totally agree with this. 
I think hunters have to realise 'anti's' aren't all bunny hugging loons who know nothing. I know about hunting and still don't want to. I do like to shoot foxes, but with my camera. 
I wouldn't protest though...well, my own little personal protest is not riding Ned in the hunt, but rather taking him in the school 
I'd go on a drag hunt, I just don't fancy seeing an animal killed. That's not just reserved to foxes, I wouldn't want to see anything killed, really. 
If you want to go and hunt, fine. But please don't think all 'anti's are stupid, I've seen it a lot and I think it's silly.
		
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I don't think anyone on this thread has implied all antis are stupid. 
But



			I know about hunting and still don't want to
		
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...



			I wouldn't protest though...well, my own little personal protest is not riding Ned in the hunt...
I'd go on a drag hunt, I just don't fancy seeing an animal killed.
		
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If you "knew about hunting" you'd know that every hunt in the country has to sockhunt these days.


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## dominobrown (22 October 2011)

She says in the video that after the ban of hunting with dogs in the 2004 that 'at last thought our foxes, hares and deer will be allowed to live in peace and quiet in their natural habitat'.

Well as someone who studies ecology at degree level that statement is a lot of twoddle.
Firstly they are not 'our' animals, secondly they do not live in peace and quiet or in a natural environment.
In the Highlands of Scotland there is an overpopulation of deer (est 350,000) which is not only reducing the quailty of the deer but preventing the habitat returningto its natural state.
There is nothing natural about the countryside anymore in reality. So unless we re-introduce predetors such as wolves, bears and lynx, destroy foreign specices and stop the urbanisation of the countryside none of these animals will live in peace and quiet. And they have always been hunted by something, even if humans never existed.


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