# Gastroguard/omeprazole/empty tummy pondering:



## Prince33Sp4rkle (27 April 2012)

just thinking.................that you are meant to give GG on an empty tummy..................but ulcer horses should be on ad lib fibre (as CS is) so in theory NEVER have an empty tummy......................and if you only feed high fibre additional feed (as I do) then surely it doesnt make ANY difference if you put the omeprazole in their feed?

the GG would end up on a fibre filled tummy, so does the omeprazole?


or is it the actual taking of feed and omeprazole at the same time? (in which case im going to mix with syrup and syringe down, he doesnt mind syringing)

so really, the GG and the omerpazole syringe, would be more or less the same?


please correct/add more info, am just musing


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## Worried1 (27 April 2012)

This is dog related as the only experience I have...

Our labrodor is on omerpazole for ulcers induced by NSAIDs he has the capsule sprinkled over his dinner as advised by our vet.

He is a totally different dog since being diagnosed and without the omerpazole he won't eat!


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## dressagecrazy (27 April 2012)

Worried1 said:



			This is dog related as the only experience I have...

Our labrodor is on omerpazole for ulcers induced by NSAIDs he has the capsule sprinkled over his dinner as advised by our vet.

He is a totally different dog since being diagnosed and without the omerpazole he won't eat!
		
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I got told by my vet that Omprezole isn't as effective as Ranitadine in dogs, so our Ulcer dog is on Zantac. It really is so confusing & Im so sceptical of vets advice now as it all differs. Glad your dog has improved Worried.

As for the Ulcer thing I never gave Gastrogard on an empty stomach as my horse always has hay. But I did give it in the morning.

I found that my boy didn't do as well on the Granules maybe due to the points raised on your other thread. But I use the paste Omprazole & I always give it before feeding, so he has about a 15 min wait before getting his fibre feed breakfast. It works well for us. 

I have an old horse on the Granules though & that's just given in his feed & it's working well. So kind of contradicts my above advice but then all horses are different.


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## Holidays_are_coming (27 April 2012)

The way I see it horses are trickle feeders so there should always be something in there tummys, but if u mixed the ompeprazole with a massive feed it would take more than 5 hrs to get out of the stomach so the enteric coating would be lost and it would be denatured in the stomach acid! I feed the granuals in a small ish fibre based feed as I cant suringe anything if u could mixing it in syrup or molasses would work well


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## whizzer (27 April 2012)

My horse had ulcers(grade 2 & 3) a year ago. They cleared completely after 3 wks of GG. I wasn't made aware that it needed to be given on empty stomach, my horse was out 24/7 at the time & mostly not being ridden so I used to just syringe it down him in the field. And I gave it at varying times every day as well! When he was rescoped the vet was quite surprised how well they'd healed in the 3 wks,so obviously my haphazard regime didn't affect the GG too much!


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## SpottedCat (27 April 2012)

See you need to be a bit logical about this I think. My horse is on ad lib forage but clearly does not spend every second of 24 hours eating (sometimes he is sleeping, sometimes he is working, sometimes he is staring into the middle distance).

The idea is that you allow them to trickle feed, not that they eat constantly - otherwise they'd never sleep and they'd never work. 

I therefore time it so horse has GG at a suitable point in his routine before riding. Usually I take him out of stable to muck out, tie him without hay, muck out and do all chores, then give GG, then groom and ride. By the time I get on he's not had forage for an hour and he had the GG about 30 mins before riding. 

You are also forgetting that the point of GG is it inhibits acid production, so them having an empty stomach isn't a problem at all. The point re forage is that once they are off GG you want the long stem fibre to buffer the acid and help prevent splash ulcers. This is why the vast majority of grass paddocks don't fulfil this function (all leaf no long stem) and why hay/chaff before exercise is recommended.


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## now_loves_mares (27 April 2012)

QR on phone. A horses stomach empties very quickly if not constantly eating, I think 25 minutes my vet said? So you don't have to leave them without food for very long. Mind you then I'm not sure why you need to starve them for 12 hours before scoping!


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## zoon (27 April 2012)

From a pharmaceutical point of view omeprazole is degraded by acid - hence it has what is called an enteric coating.  The enteric coating is designed to dissolved in an alkaline pH and the omeprazole is released - this happens once it reaches the intestine.  Th enteric coating is not meant to dissolve in acidic pH, but if left long enough in acid it will start to.  The presence of food in the stomach significantly slows stomach emptying therefore increasing the amount of time the omeprazole is in the stomach meaning some of the enteric coating will dissolve and the omeprazole is then exposed to acid and degraded. So your dose that you give in your feed will be massively reduced.  Syringed on an empty stomach and the horse receives what you have put in the syringe.


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## fornema (27 April 2012)

I have myself been on both ranitadine and omperazole with omeprazole working better, you dont need to take on empty stomach as such but a while before a meal so with ad lib hay/haylage you should be fine as the stomach is not full.


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## MileAMinute (27 April 2012)

I'd ring/ask your vet, PS, as they have the most dealings with this medication and can advise appropriately


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## zoon (27 April 2012)

Vets have a minimal understanding of pharmacokinetics.  To be honest I'd give it first thing in the morning in a syringe with a little water, turn him out whilst you muck out etc and then bring him in and give his breakfast - by that time it will have passed through his stomach into the intestine.  Yes he will have hay in his stomach as he is fed ad lib, but as horses are trickle feeders it will not be one bulk of food like a bucket feed is.  I don't know his routine, but I am sure you could come up with something similar that would work for you and Star.  With animals you have to do the best you can - that is not always perfect, but most of the time it works well enough.  In an ideal world it would be given on an empty stomach and at least 20mins before food, but this is a drug designed for humans not horses - humans sleep overnight and wake up with the perfect conditions for this drug to work.  So unless you want to install a camera in his box and run down with your syringe of drugs when you see him having a sleep, just work it as best you can into how you manage your horse.


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## Prince33Sp4rkle (30 April 2012)

just got back to this:


i can either split dose in to 2, but he will HAVE to have am dose with food as just dont have time to fanny wround in morning.

pm he can have it on more or less empty tummy as after he comes in he stands and dozes for a bit normally so lovely livery can dose him whilst he's dozing.

or he can have entire dose in afternoon doze session?

thoughts?????


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## SpottedCat (30 April 2012)

Prince33Sp4rkle said:



			just got back to this:


i can either split dose in to 2, but he will HAVE to have am dose with food as just dont have time to fanny wround in morning.

pm he can have it on more or less empty tummy as after he comes in he stands and dozes for a bit normally so lovely livery can dose him whilst he's dozing.

or he can have entire dose in afternoon doze session?

thoughts?????
		
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It's best to give it 30-60 mins before riding, so if you ride in the evenings, give it in the afternoon, you'll have the best idea of whether or not it is having the desired effect then.


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## Prince33Sp4rkle (30 April 2012)

will be more or less exactly an hour between dosing and riding  thanks


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## noodle_ (30 April 2012)

my vet advised me;

30 mins before breakfast.... GG them


Mine munches her net and dosent eat her breakfast as she hates it... so i give her GG and then a haynet 


or if i dont remember  i give her a hay net then GG

I will see the results in 2 weeks when she gets re-scoped


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## Prince33Sp4rkle (30 April 2012)

CS starting omeprazole this afternoon, so lets compare notes in a couple of weeks?


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## noodle_ (30 April 2012)

plan 

am scoping in 2 weeks and then again 4 weeks on... (before my insurance runs out...)...

Btw i plan to put omeprazole in her breakfast  if thats any help 

and ive just brought her back into work today after 3 weeks off so i could "zap" her ulcers....so we'll see


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## soulfull (9 September 2012)

I'm glad I found this as my vet said it made no difference when it was given. So I had been giving it him after riding immediately followed by his tea.  Silly me and vet.  No wonder I have only seen a small improvement in ridden work. I hope now I know I will soon see more improvement
It's been 10 days now


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## Prince33Sp4rkle (9 September 2012)

just checkign in to say this made a HUGE diff to CS and he really has been 500% happier on the omeprazole, which he has been having in the afternoon just before riding


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## Twiglet (10 September 2012)

now_loves_mares said:



			QR on phone. A horses stomach empties very quickly if not constantly eating, I think 25 minutes my vet said? So you don't have to leave them without food for very long. Mind you then I'm not sure why you need to starve them for 12 hours before scoping!
		
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My vet said the opposite - that it takes a lot longer than you'd expect for stomach to empty, although it can depend on the horse. In fact I watched the scope of a horse who'd been starved for 11 hours and there was visible evidence of food still in the stomach, which made the scope very difficult.


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