# So very wrong on so many levels...



## Paddydou (31 March 2011)

http://uk.lifestyle.yahoo.com/famil...et-daughter-breastfeed-doll-article-ez4w.html 

Sorry but no no NO!

When will PC do gooders get a grip on the fact that Children ARE CHILDREN and should not be forced into growing up!


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## glitterbug (31 March 2011)

omg agree totally whatever next, let children be children


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## Spudlet (31 March 2011)

It's bad enough little girls get dollies foisted on them anyway (here you are little girl, remember now that when you grow up you HAVE to be a mummy). My favourite toys growing up were a plastic sword and my Barbie horses (I built them a stable out of books, made tack for them and we went on hacks round my bedroom). But now this?! Wrong!

**Goes to burn bra in protest at gender stereotyping**


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## Booboos (31 March 2011)

I don't see the problem. There are plenty of dolls who can be bottle fed and then 'urinate', so why not a mock breast feeding doll? It has nothing to do with growing up too fast in my opinion, just a more realistic baby doll. Having said that little boys should be welcome to give it a go as well and little girls should get different toys if they don't fancy dolls.


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## Paddydou (31 March 2011)

Booboos said:



			I don't see the problem. There are plenty of dolls who can be bottle fed and then 'urinate', so why not a mock breast feeding doll? It has nothing to do with growing up too fast in my opinion, just a more realistic baby doll. Having said that little boys should be welcome to give it a go as well and little girls should get different toys if they don't fancy dolls.
		
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No BooBoos. There is playing dollies and dress up and there is encouraging children to be far more aware of certain things than really is neccessary. Even the dollies that urinate in my mind are WRONG!

Children should be allowed time to grow and develop. By giving them all the facts at such young ages when they can't process the CONCEQUENCES of those facts is just asking for trouble. 

In centurarys past adults figured out a way and found out in their own good time with out the constant pressure to act more and more like a grown up. Let them grow some boobs before they start simulating another infant suckling from them!


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## irish_only (31 March 2011)

Yuk. Wants banning. Kids should be kids for as long as possible. These things should happen naturally as children grow up, and let them ask the questions when they are ready to know.
What would happen if some bright spark produced a girl and boy doll designed to 'grow' so that it could simulate making the baby lol  

Bet that would be deemed inappropriate rather quickly.


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## Paddydou (31 March 2011)

Spudlet said:



			**Goes to burn bra in protest at gender stereotyping**

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I wouldn't Spud last time I found they were too big to fit in my socks... tried my hat and they escaped from there too... Just grab a placard instead much easier and less likely to cause back ache in the future


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## Paddydou (31 March 2011)

irish_only said:



			What would happen if some bright spark produced a girl and boy doll designed to 'grow' so that it could simulate making the baby lol  

Bet that would be deemed inappropriate rather quickly.
		
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Don't just don't... I also wandered about the baby they can "give birth too" as thats so natural... opens the door for a whole host of nasties.

I can understand the "its natural" comment but hey what about respecting that not everyone likes adults breastfeeding let alone 5-12 year olds! How about the old age addage of respecting the veiws of others...?


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## Alec Swan (31 March 2011)

Paddydou said:



			Don't just don't... I also wandered about the baby they can "give birth too" as thats so natural... opens the door for a whole host of nasties.......
		
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Can you picture it?  Presumably the "doll" wont have a one-off usage,  and the baby can be sent back from whence it came.

Just imagine,  in 20 years,  or in the case of some considerably less,  when there are those "mothers",  who are suing the doll manufactures,  complaining that they weren't warned first!! 

Broadly , I'm with you,  in that children should retain their innocence,  for as long as possible.  Life can be enough of a bummer,  without inflicting it on the poor little sods,  at the earliest possible opportunity.

Alec.


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## rosy (31 March 2011)

Paddydou said:



			Don't just don't... I also wandered about the baby they can "give birth too" as thats so natural... opens the door for a whole host of nasties.

I can understand the "its natural" comment but hey what about respecting that not everyone likes adults breastfeeding let alone 5-12 year olds! How about the old age addage of respecting the veiws of others...?
		
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By this, do you mean not everyone likes adults breastfeeding in public or breastfeeding per se?


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## MerrySherryRider (31 March 2011)

rosy said:



			By this, do you mean not everyone likes adults breastfeeding in public or breastfeeding per se?
		
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Nothing wrong with breastfeeding, I did with all six of mine. Still managed to do it without pulling one out in public. Didn't see breastfeeding as a political statement, just thought it was good manners to be mindful of peoples sensibilities.

The doll is yuk. Cringingly embarrassing for any 4 year old girl/boy/pre-transgender.
 Do remember having a pram and a Tiny Tears as a child. Tiny Tears was booted out of the pram as brothers bribed me to let them have the chassis to make a go-kart. I was such a poor promise of ever having future maternal feeling. Ah well.


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## madlady (31 March 2011)

That doll is just wrong!

Let children be children, isn't it bad enough that little girls are already being dressed like teenagers!


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## rosy (31 March 2011)

horserider said:



			Nothing wrong with breastfeeding, I did with all six of mine. Still managed to do it without pulling one out in public. Didn't see breastfeeding as a political statement, just thought it was good manners to be mindful of peoples sensibilities.

The doll is yuk. Cringingly embarrassing for any 4 year old girl/boy/pre-transgender.
 Do remember having a pram and a Tiny Tears as a child. Tiny Tears was booted out of the pram as brothers bribed me to let them have the chassis to make a go-kart. I was such a poor promise of ever having future maternal feeling. Ah well.
		
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Absolutely on there being nothing wrong with breast feeding - I have had 5 kids, you beat me . It wasn't clear to me from the post quite what was being objected to - I breastfed in public very occasionally and no one ever saw anything. I don't much like the doll TBH but I do have a bit of a problem with bottle fed dolls making bottle feeding appear to be the norm, or the correct or only way.

I had a Tiny Tears, my gran bought it for me for Christmas one year - I think to try to distract me from ponies, absolutely no chance. No idea what happened to it.
My daughter once got a doll for Christmas along with a kitchen utensil set. The first thing she did was to take out the potato masher and mash the doll's face. Thank goodness there was only family there to see - they knew that I didn't regularly mash my children.


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## millreef (31 March 2011)

Agree... just plain wrong.


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## MerrySherryRider (31 March 2011)

rosy said:



			My daughter once got a doll for Christmas along with a kitchen utensil set. The first thing she did was to take out the potato masher and mash the doll's face.
		
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Love it !


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## Over2You (31 March 2011)

As much as I hate to say it - girls need to know about those things at that age. What with as many teenage pregnancies, and the government doing squat to discourage childhood pregnancy. I would love for young girls to have a carefree childhood, and not have to concern themselves with child rearing. But, things like this need to be taught at an early age now. Sad, but true.


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## Snowy Celandine (31 March 2011)

It doesn't bother me at all. Lots of little girls pretend to bottle feed their dolls so this is a more natural alternative. We mammals are all designed to breast feed our infants. Breast feeding and fetishising the breast are not the same thing.


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## narkymare (31 March 2011)

Booboos said:



			I don't see the problem. There are plenty of dolls who can be bottle fed and then 'urinate', so why not a mock breast feeding doll? It has nothing to do with growing up too fast in my opinion, just a more realistic baby doll. Having said that little boys should be welcome to give it a go as well and little girls should get different toys if they don't fancy dolls.
		
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are you for real?????


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## narkymare (31 March 2011)

rosy said:



			By this, do you mean not everyone likes adults breastfeeding in public or breastfeeding per se?
		
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i breastfed all my children but never deemed it to be  a public exercise - if in public i always chose a corner i could do it with noone knowing - i wont wee in public (and that is a natural thing) so why i openly breast feed in public????


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## Booboos (31 March 2011)

narkymare said:



			are you for real?????
		
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Yes last time I checked I was. 

To those of you who are having a more serious discussion: I am about to give birth and I intend to breastfeed, if there was a child in the room I would never think of hiding the breast feeding in order to protect their innocence. I don't think children are more innocent if they don't see naked adults or if they don't know where babies come from. I find the barbie type dolls that look like prostitutes to be far more problematic than a doll that has realistic human functions. Making children embarassed and upset about normal human functions, like reproduction and breast feeding, seems more problematic to me. There is a difference between innocence and gross ignorance bordering on idiocy (e.g. I would never teach my daughter that babies come from cabbages).

I see a huge difference between encouraging children to act like adults by, for example, encouraging them to wear make up, wear sexually provocative clothing or mimick gender stereotypes around sex roles, and actually teaching children about perfectly normal body functions like breast feeding or where babies come from.


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## Tinkerbee (31 March 2011)

Lord... potentially the target age for that doll could still be being breast fed themselves, or only be out of it a wee while, I'm sure they are aware of the concept. 

My mum had my sister when I was 4... I turned out fairly normal and haven't popped out 15 kids of my own, despite seeing breastfeeding at such a tender, innocent age...

Oh dear. I'm sure plenty of childhoods are stolen, but not due to a breast feeding doll.

Perspective anyone? No, ok then.


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## equestrianabbie (31 March 2011)

Oh dear, just when you thought it couldn't get worse.  Seriously what next? Barbie and Ken dolls that _actually_ have sex?  Please.


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## rosy (31 March 2011)

narkymare said:



			i breastfed all my children but never deemed it to be  a public exercise - if in public i always chose a corner i could do it with noone knowing - i wont wee in public (and that is a natural thing) so why i openly breast feed in public????
		
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See, that's why I was asking the question - to clarify the point. I'm not sure where you got the idea that I was advocating breast feeding as public entertainment because I wasn't. You are arguing against a statement that I never made.

I do, however, think that we have a very curious attitude to breasts and breastfeeding. We have sexualised breasts in our culture to an extent to which now the primary function is considered distasteful and yet page 3 can be displayed in public with no apparent problem.

In all honesty, I find page 3  in The Sun far more offensive than a woman breastfeeding her baby in public.


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## rosy (31 March 2011)

Booboos said:



			Yes last time I checked I was. 

To those of you who are having a more serious discussion: I am about to give birth and I intend to breastfeed, if there was a child in the room I would never think of hiding the breast feeding in order to protect their innocence. I don't think children are more innocent if they don't see naked adults or if they don't know where babies come from. I find the barbie type dolls that look like prostitutes to be far more problematic than a doll that has realistic human functions. Making children embarassed and upset about normal human functions, like reproduction and breast feeding, seems more problematic to me. There is a difference between innocence and gross ignorance bordering on idiocy (e.g. I would never teach my daughter that babies come from cabbages).

I see a huge difference between encouraging children to act like adults by, for example, encouraging them to wear make up, wear sexually provocative clothing or mimick gender stereotypes around sex roles, and actually teaching children about perfectly normal body functions like breast feeding or where babies come from.
		
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 And, what she said.


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## Daddy_Long_Legs (31 March 2011)

When I was a kid I used to get very embarressed with my mums friends who would whip out their breasts to feed the little 'un! To be fair they were very discreet and you actually couldn't see anything. I was always mortified though but because it is natural I use to make myself just ignore it and try and accept it.

I'm not mad about the doll to be honest but I would rather give the child a doll than a nintendo DS......


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## JFTDWS (3 April 2011)

equestrianabbie said:



			Seriously what next? Barbie and Ken dolls that _actually_ have sex?  Please.
		
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This reads somewhat like a plea for Barbie and Ken dolls which have sex  lol

(I know you didn't mean it that way)


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## 1stclassalan (3 April 2011)

Hmmm.. very interesting to read the reaction from female posters young and old on this - the first observation I would make is that many point to the supposed loss of innocence giving this doll to a child - totally overlooking the fact that if the child actually is innocent she will simply take the doll and play "mum" with it innocently - it's only the viewing adults that will be offended.

However, I do have reservations about the product and imagine myself as creative director in the manufacturing firm being greeted by this news - here we are boss, our new line - a suckling doll kit! My reply is along the lines of .... ah well, if you really can't come up with anything better let's see if it sinks or swims in the market... but bring me the head of the guy that thought this one up.


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## chestnut cob (3 April 2011)

Can't see a problem with it personally.  Breast feeding is a perfectly natural function and maybe if these dolls become commonplace, there might just be a bit less embarrassment about it in the next generation.

FWIW I had a Tiny Tears doll when I was little, got bored with it quickly when I realised the only place I could play with it was in the bathroom because what went in the front end came straight out the other!!  I am pretty sure that having a Tiny Tears didn't make me grow up too fast nor did it encourage me to have lots of children when I was young... I am 30 and still don't have kids!


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## miss_bird (3 April 2011)

That is bloody sick


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## ThePinkPony (3 April 2011)

Over2You said:



			As much as I hate to say it - girls need to know about those things at that age. What with as many teenage pregnancies, and the government doing squat to discourage childhood pregnancy. I would love for young girls to have a carefree childhood, and not have to concern themselves with child rearing. But, things like this need to be taught at an early age now. Sad, but true.
		
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no, not at that age they dont. and that is a fact.

and to be honest im a bit sick of the breastfeeding brigade, after the amount of BF BS rammed down my neck when i was pregnant the fact that i couldnt BF my son when he was born (through me nearly dying in labour) literally made me want to top myself, i spent the first 6 months feeling like a complete failure.

turns out my 18month old is sturdier and healthier than most his age, walked early, is a freaking genius, so screw that breast is best, its obviously not, because my son would have been very very ill if i had!!!


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## rosie fronfelen (4 April 2011)

I must be seriously odd as no way was i going to breast feed my 2 lads and they are now 6 ft  rugby players and i hated dolls with a passion-


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## rosy (4 April 2011)

ThePinkPony said:



			no, not at that age they dont. and that is a fact.

and to be honest im a bit sick of the breastfeeding brigade, after the amount of BF BS rammed down my neck when i was pregnant the fact that i couldnt BF my son when he was born (through me nearly dying in labour) literally made me want to top myself, i spent the first 6 months feeling like a complete failure.

turns out my 18month old is sturdier and healthier than most his age, walked early, is a freaking genius, so screw that breast is best, its obviously not, because my son would have been very very ill if i had!!!
		
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I had the opposite experience. When breastfeeding wasn't perfectly established within 4 hours after birth the midwife took my son from me and gave him a bottle.

But I think you are right. Mine were all breastfed. They walked, talked etc. at totally average ages. They were only average at putting on weight and they occasionally caught colds nor were they noticeably different in development from other kids. Also, none of them are of genius intelligence. Mea culpa


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## rosy (4 April 2011)

rosiefronfelen said:



			I must be seriously odd as no way was i going to breast feed my 2 lads and they are now 6 ft  rugby players and i hated dolls with a passion-
		
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I really only wanted to breastfeed because I am lazy - I seriously couldn't be bothered making up bottles in the middle of the night and all that jazz.

Horses for courses, isn't it?


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## Tinkerbee (4 April 2011)

Genuine question for those who think this is sick, wrong and sending us all to hell in a handbasket... what about young children seeing younger siblings being breastfed? Is that going to scar them for life? 
Obviously there are differences but it seems to be the fact that children are aware of the concept of breastfeeding that has got some knickers in a twist...

I'm interested.


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## rosy (4 April 2011)

Tinkerbee said:



			Genuine question for those who think this is sick, wrong and sending us all to hell in a handbasket... what about young children seeing younger siblings being breastfed? Is that going to scar them for life? 
Obviously there are differences but it seems to be the fact that children are aware of the concept of breastfeeding that has got some knickers in a twist...

I'm interested. 

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I can't really answer this except to say that my younger brother was bottle fed and also all the dolls that I saw had feeding bottles. I , therefore, thought that this was the ( only ) way that babies were fed.

When I was about 8, I went with my friend to see her baby sister who was only a few days old. The baby had been born at home, another revelation - in my world babies came from the hospital - my friend's mum was  breastfeeding the baby and talking to us as if it was all perfectly normal and natural, which, of course, it was. So for the first time I cottoned on to the idea that there was another way to feed tiny babies.

In my case I wasn't traumatised, just educated. My own older kids saw their younger siblings breastfed. I don't know if it bothered them overmuch - it was just never a big deal. They did, on occasions, tell me to feed the baby   "to make him stop crying ".


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## rosie fronfelen (4 April 2011)

rosy said:



			I really only wanted to breastfeed because I am lazy - I seriously couldn't be bothered making up bottles in the middle of the night and all that jazz.

Horses for courses, isn't it? 

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yes, each to their own-quite agree.


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## soulfull (4 April 2011)

Cocobeans said:



			There's something really uncomfortable about this. It's not the breastfeeding, it's the whole getting young girls to examine and be too aware of their bodies too soon. I don't like it one bit.
		
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Too me this is EXACTLY the problem!


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## Mithras (4 April 2011)

Its gross, its too early to be sending children such a message and its gender stereotyping.  

Chestnut_Cob - I felt the same about Tiny Tears dolls, couldn't see the point in them and wouldn't have one!  In fact my mother was against gender stereotyping and told the school I would not be doing home economics (I did technical drawing with the boys instead) nor would I be having that vaccine which protects in childbirth or suchlike.  Her point was that school was for teaching me academic subjects and not that I had no role on earth other than to cook, clean and give birth.

Not all females are interested in and want the same things.  Are they giving male children daddy type dolls which go out to work and provide for families?  Somehow I think not.


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## narkymare (4 April 2011)

im just gobsmacked some people agree with this - a doll that stimulates breast feeding??? 
Omg dolls are aimed at what - 3 - 8 year olds???? To see you at most 8 year old girl "playing" at  suckling a doll on her chest?
Wrong wrong wrong - to watch mummy or any other lady doing it to a real life baby is totally different - omg this is just sick
Adults do things children dont, ie breast feed - im not saying its wrong, it is the most beautiful thing in the world and natural - omg giving a boob sucking doll to a child just isnt!!!!!


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## narkymare (4 April 2011)

rosy said:



			And, what she said.
		
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so at what age exactly do you think it appropriate to teach your daughter the skills of breast feeding?


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## rosy (4 April 2011)

narkymare said:



			so at what age exactly do you think it appropriate to teach your daughter the skills of breast feeding?
		
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I think you and I are at cross purposes here. I don't actually like the doll much but I can't summon up the indignant moral outrage that some people are exhibiting. Teaching the 'skills' of breastfeeding comes when you are actually in the situation of needing to breastfeed. 
Learning that it is possible to breastfeed, as opposed to bottle-feeding, can be whenever. If you saw my earlier post, I never knew that it was possible until the age of 8 and might have easily not have found out until much later as I had a very squeamish mother. 

My elder daughter saw her baby sister being breastfed from when she was 10 months old - actually for a month or two they were tandem fed which was the result of mismanagement in having two babies very close together.

When my son was little he tried 'feeding' his teddy bear while I was feeding his sister. We thought it was quite cute. Perhaps I should have been horrified. However, I hope that, should he ever be a father, then he will be accepting of his wife / girlfriend breastfeeding and not nag her to change to formula so that she won't 'spoil her figure' which is a reason that I have heard more than one bloke give for not wanting his partner to breastfeed.


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## YorksG (4 April 2011)

Child development is such that any child who wants to simulate breastfeeding, to emmulate mum, will do so. To provide the child with a 'bib' which stimulates the doll to 'feed' is a whole other thing IMO. Especially a doll which sucks! I also have some issues with the people who say it is fine for children to see and accept naked adult bodies. Children have to learn that it is acceptable for them to keep their bodies private, which let's face it most of us do! We do not urinate or defacate in public, most people manage not to squeeze their spots in public etc. etc., why would we therefore want to encourage the public display of a private, bonding activity between mother and child? Children are often exposed to adult behaviour and are expected to emmulate it, long before they are emmotionally ready to do so. The idea of a suckling doll is absolutely vile IMO and not good for children.


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## CanadianGirl (4 April 2011)

I didn't read that the doll actually "sucked".  Just that it makes suckling noises.  

I can't imagine any parent buying a doll that did that!


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## 1stclassalan (5 April 2011)

I am more than willing to bet at high odds that many folk who object to this for girls will buy boys of similar age a toy gun with realistic sound effects - though I've never heard of one with the sound of the bullet actually hitting flesh - but I'd bet that it would sell in some quarters!

Oh, in addition - if you ladies play your cards right and bottle feed - you can give the nightshift to him indoors - I used to get lumbered with that one regularly and will point out that the daughter I fed the most has a First Class Honours degree - the naturally fed one is blonde ( need I say more ) and is an estate agent.


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## TallyHo123 (5 April 2011)

Agreed with everyone who said kids should be kids for as long as possible.


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## Paddydou (5 April 2011)

I liken this to drinking. I am against this as while there are adult activities that it is natural for a child to observe there are others which are wrong for adults to encourage. How many mothers would be slated for teaching their children to knock back a few G&T's? 

As for teaching children to breast feed - sorry but I believe that we are introducing sex and grown up relationships FAR TOO SOON! Let children be children. Has any one considered that the reason why more and more children are becoming pregnant etc is that they are learning far too much far too soon? Rather that learn naturally and through experiance at an apropriate time we are allowing sex education to go on in primary schools! Let them go climb trees and dress up etc, play dolls (with out the fake urine and suckling) etc.

If a mother wishes to breast feed her child fair enough but what about those who don't, those who find it extreemly painfull or can't? I am sick to death of the PC crew belittling them with "breast is best" and "its the most natural thing" comments. I have no problem with what I would call normal breast feeding in public (descrete rest of body covered in clothes) I have however been subject to a massive mammory being lumped out on full show in the middle of a resturaunt... Sorry but others have to eat and don't really want to see a face full of tit while trying to digest their food. What about having a touch of respect for others who may not wish to see that sort of thing? There is no need. When are we going to realise that Children have a right to be children and a right to inocence.


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## Booboos (5 April 2011)

What does breastfeeding have to do with sex? Why would explaining to a child that babies drink milk from their mother's breasts encourage them to think about sex? None of this argument makes any sense to me.

I completely agree that women should not be made to feel bad if they cannot/do not want to breast feed, but why would a doll that breast feeds make you feel bad about not breast feeding yourself? If you breast fed, do dolls that bottle feed make you feel bad you didn't bottle feed? If you don't want to/can't cook, do you feel offended by little kitchen play sets for kids?

And why would you need to teach your child the skills of breast feeding if you buy her/him this doll? If you were to buy a toy stethoscope instead would you have to teach the skills of medicine?


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## rosie fronfelen (6 April 2011)

narkymare said:



			so at what age exactly do you think it appropriate to teach your daughter the skills of breast feeding?
		
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Does the daughter have to be taught at all, surely instinct kicks in at the appropriate time?


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## Paddydou (6 April 2011)

Booboos said:



			What does breastfeeding have to do with sex?
		
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Sex is the mamals way to procreate. Procreation involves the production and nurture of off spring. How can this NOT have anything to do with sex? Ok so its not the behind the bike sheds aspect but this is an aspect.

I also feel that we are "training" our children to be drinkers, smokers etc. Get it off the soaps and get them displaying a more realistic (yes its boring but doesn't have to be) version of life and stop harrassing our youngsters to grow up so quickly and take on ADULT perceptions and relations with others so quickly and just let them grow up rather than force the issue!


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## underdog (8 April 2011)

WTF - am i to assume they are gradually going to get to making kids 'blow up doll' type toys all in the name of education?!


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## Booboos (8 April 2011)

Paddydou said:



			Sex is the mamals way to procreate. Procreation involves the production and nurture of off spring. How can this NOT have anything to do with sex? Ok so its not the behind the bike sheds aspect but this is an aspect.

I also feel that we are "training" our children to be drinkers, smokers etc. Get it off the soaps and get them displaying a more realistic (yes its boring but doesn't have to be) version of life and stop harrassing our youngsters to grow up so quickly and take on ADULT perceptions and relations with others so quickly and just let them grow up rather than force the issue!
		
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By that logic cuddling and feeding of solids are both sex as they are all part of nurturing of offspring and they should all be done behind closed doors to avoid corrupting the innocence of children.

The reason we should not be encouraging children to smoke is not because it is an adult activity and seeing it will lead them to grow up too fast but because it is a harmful activity for everyone involved in it, child or adult.


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