# What would these "symptoms" point towards in your experience?



## KatB (22 December 2011)

As above. Horse is:

* Short stepping on offside hind, so not coming through in trot and more "staccato" in canter

* Won't take a big sweeping step over when turned on a tight circle on the flat to the left (wont cross over offside hind), fine on right hand circle

*No problems stepping back/rein back

*No problems cantering on correct lead

*No problem jumping

*Gets freer moving in trot after time, to the point it's not distinguishable, though after time off daily work (2 or 3 days off), or a hard days jumping looks positively unlevel behind.

*Looks level through the pelvis when viewed from behind.

Thoughts?


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## stencilface (22 December 2011)

Mine as instructor noticed last week has a longer stride in his nearside hind, putting all the work into this leg - this is the leg he has done his PSD on. Mine was never properly lame on his, only after flexion, and never had any issues jumping that I noticed.  He also used to (trying to break the habit!) always have his near hind more stretched out behind him when standing etc, so not putting weight evenly on his legs - does she do anything like this?

So only comparing it to that, and the fact that my horse also has some SI issues (seeing chiro again in jan, and an osteo which I haven't ever had done before) I would think its something around that area?  I would get a chiro/physio out and get them to see you riding etc, and work in hand, as horses will invariably work different when ridden and not.


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## vic07 (22 December 2011)

2 suggestions - Both muscular 

Pulled hamstring- is it worse uphill? 

Or a pulled muscle in back?


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## SpottedCat (22 December 2011)

Getting a vet? 

More seriously, I'd probably book a new year appointment with a good performance horse vet specialising in lameness and between now and then give her a holiday - if it's muscular then that will fix itself given time, and you can cancel the appointment. If its something more, you want it looked at sharpish - but no point racking up holiday level bills!


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## KatB (22 December 2011)

vic07, not noticeably worse uphill, although tbh the only hills we have we go up after a fair bit of hacking already, so any "stiffness" is unnoticeable. She has had her back done in the last 8 weeks, as v.well respected trainer noticed she was tight over her back. This made things a LOT better and she was softer, but still with this "gait weakness" that wasn't a lameness. However, this is now a distinct unlevelness.

TF, I did think this, but she stands levelly, and gets better as time goes on...


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## KatB (22 December 2011)

Spottedcat, vet already booked. Just interested to see if thoughts were similar to mine.


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## Saints_fan88 (22 December 2011)

My horse has exactly these symptoms and has been diagnosed with high, non-articular ringbone in his pastern joint. Having some time off for the swelling to go down and should hopefully come back into full work in the near future


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## SpottedCat (22 December 2011)

LOL you can ignore my FB message then


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## MegaBeast (22 December 2011)

Nothing helpful to add except to ask if you've done a flexion test?


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## KatB (22 December 2011)

s_f88, thats interesting. Does that wear off with time? Did you see any swelling? I am sure it's higher up, but know the symptoms can vary and be actually foot lameness...

SC, replied already 

MB, nope, not yet. Her flexion through her hocks is fine though, and she jumps equally off both hinds...which is why I was pointing towards higher up...


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## Amymay (22 December 2011)

Spavin?


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## tabithakat64 (22 December 2011)

Sounds quite like a spavin to me, however you say that she is flexing her hocks


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## KatB (22 December 2011)

Yep, no problems in action "up and down" in the hind leg, just forward stretch/reach...


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## Saints_fan88 (22 December 2011)

Yes there was kind of a 'ring' round the pastern, it has gone down and is harder now. The vet nerve blocked the pastern and he trotted up sound, xrays showed the ligament has come away from the joint slightly, so treating it like a splint that's forming - with rest, bute&DMSO. Vet coming back tomorrow so fingers crossed!!

Good luck with your diagnosis!


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## squiz22 (22 December 2011)

Is your horse quite young? Is he big and still developing at all?
I take it no obvious sore points along the back?
Have to done flexion tests etc/ check stifles? I'd investigate stifles/SI joint..


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## aran (22 December 2011)

KatB said:



			* Short stepping on offside hind, so not coming through in trot and more "staccato" in canter
* Won't take a big sweeping step over when turned on a tight circle on the flat to the left (wont cross over offside hind), fine on right hand circle
*No problems stepping back/rein back
*No problems cantering on correct lead
*No problem jumping
*Gets freer moving in trot after time, to the point it's not distinguishable, though after time off daily work (2 or 3 days off), or a hard days jumping looks positively unlevel behind.
*Looks level through the pelvis when viewed from behind.


Exactly how my horse presented with spavin.
Jumped fine
Most noticable was not coming through, not crossing on circle, improved with work, got worse with time off, improved if back was done.
Negative flexion test, no heat/swelling.
Xrays will tell you either way (just make sure they rule out suspensory problems as they can present in a similar manner)

good luck
		
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## seabsicuit2 (22 December 2011)

What a pain do hope its easily resolved

Could it be sacro pain- have you got a physio with an H wave machine to pop on over her back/quarters? a couple of sessions of that could cure it..


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## siennamum (22 December 2011)

Sienna did a sliding downhill stop in the field and wrenched her hamstring, she moved as you are describing. A bit of rest and she was right as rain, hopefully that's all that Lucky has done.


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## KatB (22 December 2011)

Thanks guys. Squiz, she's 6, 15.3hh and TBx, she's the little bay in my sig. Has filled out and grown up this last year, not done anything re. flexions etc yet. 

aran, thanks will be investigated I am sure.

sb, I think thats what it is, but know thats quite often secondary... so will see what vet says. Hopefully will be that straight forward...

siennamum, pleased she is fine now... fingers crossed....


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## SamuelWhiskers (22 December 2011)

I hope she's alright Kat, fingers and toes crossed! 

My friends horse just be diagnosed with hock spavins and that was really struggling to canter on the left rein = off side hock spavin! So if she's fine with that, i would be going higher up maybe! Bob strained his sacro illiac muscel when he was younger, this caused him to "tighten" his stride pattern on one side.  Physio soon sorted it out! 

I'm sure you're vet will find it and sort it. 

Hope you sort her out and have a good christmas! x


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## MandyMoo (22 December 2011)

I don't really have anything new to add, as others have said most!! but i do hope it is resolved asap Kat!!!


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## dieseldog (22 December 2011)

Spavin or PSD?  What is she like going down hill?   I think Spavin finds it hard to go down, does she stand with her back legs out behind her?

Hope youget to the bottom of it and its nothing serious.


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## Fahrenheit (22 December 2011)

One of my horses was slightly short stepping on the left hind, it was so subtle the vet struggled to be sure at first, after x raying and scanning the foot, the fetlock, the hock and the stifle joint and finding absolutely nothing, he referred the horse to a physio (different to our usual back person) and he found after a complete check over that he had some stiffness in his sacroiliac joint and his glutes were tender, probably from compensating for it, he had treatment and then a follow up treatment and a follow up check up and has been perfect ever since.

Hope you get to the bottom of what causes your horses problem.


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## Leg_end (22 December 2011)

Leg showed similar symptoms.. Is she sound on a circle on the lunge in front? Leg was lightly off in front (so tiny you woud barely notice and only on a hard surface)..


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## LizzieJ (22 December 2011)

fwiw, my mare with spavins is fine up and down hill and doesn't react to a flexion test   She also jumps and strikes off on either leg in canter fine!  I would be inclined to think hocks or given her age and size maybe stifle/si joint if it's not muscular.


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## foxy1 (22 December 2011)

My money's on bone spavin


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## TPO (22 December 2011)

Tension  in the gluteus area with the back pain being secondary would be my random stab in the dark having never seen the horse or it move, based solely on your OP and only voiced since the vet is on his/her way!


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## Ludi-doodi (23 December 2011)

KatB said:



			Yep, no problems in action "up and down" in the hind leg, just forward stretch/reach...
		
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Sounds similar to a mare that was on our yard a few years ago. She had an arthoscopy on the stifle iirc to remove what I can only describe as lumps and bumps to make it smoother. Vet at the time said it was fairly common in warmblood type horses who grew quite big fairly fast.  This mare was about 7 or 8 ID/TB cross.  She looked particularly worse in colder weather and could certainly be described as stiff rather than lame.


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## KatB (23 December 2011)

Thanks everyone. Vet this afternoon (though weather not that helpful!) so will see what she says... I'm hoping it'll be a physio solveable issue, (don't we all!) but she's certainly feeling very well and incredibly bright, and gave me a lovely rodeo display in her stable this morning... we will see.


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## Jenny923 (23 December 2011)

My horse is currently experiencing the same symptoms as yours, not stepping through as much with one hind leg. We've had vet and back person out, vet said he had muscle wastage on back so to lunge, it did improve but as soon as stopped it got worse again. Back person said his pelvis had come out of alignment very slightly so sorted it, horse is better but still not right. Also is worse up hill, however fine downhill. We are about to call back person out again.

I hope you get it all sorted soon and it's not something too serious. Do let us know what your vet says


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## KatB (23 December 2011)

Well, as an update:

She is v.slightly shorter on that hind, confirmed by vet. However, not lame, dead even in footfalls etc, and agreed, is more of a common "weaker on one side" step. She is sound in flexion tests, and vet doesn't think it is PSD as this would get worse with work, not better. She said normally it would sound like a hock problem,  but again, wouldn't expect this to get better with work, and can see or feel nothing to suggest any hock issues. She thinks it is more likely a muscular or "mechanical" weakness, as opposed to a pain related lameness, so marebag is on bute for a week and regular work to see if that makes a difference and to see if that is the case. If she improves, she will be going for a full lameness work up.

The only other thing I could think when she had gone was that she regularly stands in the stable when in season and bangs the offending leg's hip on the stable wall.... she was also horrible in the school on wednesday night (when I decided to get vet out)  and came into season on the thurs... and started banging her hip again then. I am going to mention this when I speak to the vet again in the week and see if there is any connection.


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## star (23 December 2011)

my horse is showing not dissimilar symptoms too.  not lame but gone quite curled up to the right, not stepping through properly with the right hind.  reluctant to accept the contact on the right rein.  still seems happy to jump SJ and hunting.  even in walk he is now walking holding his quarters to the right. have had physio and he has quite a sore back and tight gluteals plus pelvis slightly unlevel so saddler next then physio back to treat under sedation.  hopefully this will sort him out.  he has an old injury to his right hip so hopefully just this has got a bit tight and made him a bit crooked and physio will sort him.


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## KatB (23 December 2011)

Thanks Star, hope your boy improves! She will take the rein evenly on both sides, and 95% of the time doesn't feel any different. She is stiffer on the right rein, but only to a "normal" extent, and can go quarters in slightly in canter, but that's a tension/weakness problem, and has improved. She is evenly muscled on both sides. I hadn't really registered the hip banging thing, as she has always done it, so i've not thought much about it. The only other thing which may or may not have any bearing, is she has always religiously had her massage pad on 3-4 times a week, until the last fortnight when she hasn't had it on at all...again, couuld be a contributing factor to muscle tightness.


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## TarrSteps (24 December 2011)

Interesting about the hip banging - I had a mare that did this.  She had a tendency to do it as a "confinement displacement" when she got anxious in her stable but was infinitely worse when in season, at which point she'd even do it on a fence post in the paddock!  She actually marked up her hip doing it one year!  

I changed her feed for other reasons and she stopped doing it completely!!  Even when in season.  And her jumping style improved.  Bizarre.

Anyway, not much use to you but it does go to the odd ways cause and effect can work.  In my mare's case, after she was sold the owners went back to feeding her as she had been and she went back to her old habits.  Even more bizarre.  (The people, not the horse!)

Glad you got a fairly positive view from your vet.  Fingers crossed you either get to the bottom of it or it sorts on its own.


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## frannieuk (24 December 2011)

My horse had very similar symptoms (on the same side as yours) once she was back fully fit following a long period of box rest.
I used a great McTimoney practitioner and she found that Floppy was very tight through the right hamstring, and that the long muscle up the side of the spine was also very tight, both of which resulted in preventing her bending and stepping through with the off hind. A couple of sessions with her, and plenty of carrot stretches seems to have sorted it (fingers crossed!).

I hope yours is something similar and as easily sorted, will be keeping fingers crossed for you.


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## Scarlett (24 December 2011)

My girl goes 'tight' through one side when in season, or coming into season. You would look at her and think there was a soundness issue but there isnt, she just get all tied up in knots down her right side, she doesnt step up and under as she should and is particularily crooked to ride. It sounds fairly similar to your girl. She is loads better if I give her magnesium just before she comes into season but it's definately something we are learning to manage, not cure. I'm planning to give her Agnus Castus (sp) next year from end of Feb on.

I hope it turns out to be something simple, bloomin' sensitive mares!


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## kirstyhen (24 December 2011)

As someone suffering with SI problems currently, your description sounds like me, although my jumping has never been great  
Hope you get to the bottom of it and it's easily solved.


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## KatB (24 December 2011)

Thanks guys. Frannie, L had something similar that the osteo picked up on, and she was a lot better once he'd been, but still very slightly tighter on that hind.


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## Firewell (24 December 2011)

Wow you could literally be describing my horse in every way. Not lame, gets better with work, mechanical weakness.
Mine shows up most when I first start working him and he is disconnected and not moving forwards.
When I fist got him he was so weak and stiff, he looked lame. He couldn't put his left hind under him at all when span on a tight circle on concrete and he stood like his back legs were sticking out. To ride every now and again be would slip behind and his backend would drop for a stride then he would be OK. Perfect trotting up straight and on the lunge, fab to jump, would struggle a bit to push from behind going up steep hills and he would try and stomp with his front legs instead. Bouncy and fine coming down the hills!
It would be most noticeable after a couple of days off.
I got our amazing osteo out and literally after one session he was 100% better, he went from so stiff he was lame to sound. The osteo said he was so weak and gangly and the poor boy had been broken in and race trained at 2.5yrs, consequently he was just so stiff and weak.
Now 2 years on he is so much stronger and muscled. I've had him flexioned and he was fine. I do have to have the osteo every 3 months or he will start to feel unleve again. He's unlevel while he's unconnected, once he's warmed up and powering along it goes. Walk pirouettes really help and turn on the haunches.
My osteo said it feels very typical of an old injury from slipping over in the field or it could have resulted from being pushed to work when he was a bubba.
Now I can feel it when he's due for the osteo, he's had time off (last time he had time off and I put him on the lunge it took 5 mins of trotting before he started 
tracking up) and when his saddle didn't fit and was pinching his shoulders.
It's never been an issue for the work I do. Jumping he finds a breeze and dressage he is fine, once he is warmed up and working it's not there.
Maybe there is something there maybe there isn't but as he is sound on lunge, flat and flexion, I can manage it with good warm ups and osteo I'm reluctant to 
open up a can of worms by calling the vet.
However mine has had it since I got him, he was worse and now he's much better, if it suddenly came on maybe I would be more concerned?! Lucky may have done it in the field.
I'll be interested to hear what the vet finds anyway .


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