# WARNING! - KEP riding hat safety - please open



## MozartK (28 June 2015)

After paying a substantial amount of money for my beloved KEP riding hat, I would have liked to have though my head was well protected. How wrong could I be!!!

These pictures show what happened to my hat after my horse stumbled trotting on a grassy field, unseating me face first into the grass. As you can see the panelled design of the hat cause the hat to fall apart on impact. In fact the hat was no longer on my head after the fall but was hanging in pieces around my neck, held together by the harness!

The picture of my face shows bruising and grazing to my forehead, exactly where the hat should have protected. I count myself as extremely lucky to only have facial bruising and not a fractured skull and brain injury. Others may not be as lucky!

These hats have passed the relevant safety tests, hence I was confident my head was well protected. I will be contacting KEP, BHS and BETA regarding my accident and the inadequate performance of this hat. Hopefully they will take action as these hats are so common in dressage and show jumping. I dread to think what the outcome could have been if I had been going faster or jumping and landed in the same way!

http://s880.photobucket.com/user/MozartK/media/Hat 2.jpg.html

http://s880.photobucket.com/user/MozartK/media/Hat 6.jpg.html?sort=3&o=1

http://s880.photobucket.com/user/MozartK/media/Hat 4.jpg.html?sort=3&o=2

http://s880.photobucket.com/user/MozartK/media/Hat 2.jpg.html?sort=3&o=3

http://s880.photobucket.com/user/MozartK/media/Hat face 1.jpg.html?sort=3&o=4


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## ester (28 June 2015)

meep! It looks like it has just fallen apart!


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## MozartK (28 June 2015)

Yip, it did! I just opened H&H mag and half the show jumpers are wearing this hat!


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## Luci07 (28 June 2015)

That is horrific. Glad you are OK but how scary


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## MrsMozart (28 June 2015)

Blinking heck!

I know hats are meant to absorb the impact of any knock, hence always replacing when it's had a bash, but I'm not aware of any that are meant to fall apart like that!

It will be really interesting to hear what the relevant organizations have to say.

Hope you're okay lass. Have you been checked over?


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## bluebellfreddy (28 June 2015)

That is quite scary, hope you get good responses from the right people.


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## Marydoll (28 June 2015)

Holy moley that looks to have just disintegrated on impact


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## MozartK (28 June 2015)

Yes, I went and got checked out. No concussion or broken bones fortunately and my teeth are ok, all of which suggests it wasn't really a hard impact.....



MrsMozart said:



			Blinking heck!

I know hats are meant to absorb the impact of any knock, hence always replacing when it's had a bash, but I'm not aware of any that are meant to fall apart like that!

It will be really interesting to hear what the relevant organizations have to say.

Hope you're okay lass. Have you been checked over?
		
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## milliepops (28 June 2015)

MrsMozart said:



			Blinking heck!

I know hats are meant to absorb the impact of any knock, hence always replacing when it's had a bash, but I'm not aware of any that are meant to fall apart like that!
		
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^^ this!  Glad you're (almost) unharmed, that's really quite alarming. I feel better about my boring old-fangled hats now


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## soulfull (28 June 2015)

Omg that is horrendous.   Just as a comparison,  I took a big lump hammer to my old Charles Owen show jumper hat.   I couldn't make a noticeable dent in it never mind crack it.


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## Sheep (28 June 2015)

Goodness that is scary! Glad you are OK.


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## Pebble101 (28 June 2015)

What are the safety standards shown in the hat?


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## only_me (28 June 2015)

Wow! The hat really did fall apart!!

Glad you're ok after the fall


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## MozartK (28 June 2015)

soulfull said:



			Omg that is horrendous.   Just as a comparison,  I took a big lump hammer to my old Charles Owen show jumper hat.   I couldn't make a noticeable dent in it never mind crack it.
		
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Yes, I rode out this morning in my good old trusted Charles Owen jockey skull cap and have just ordered a new Charles Owen Ayr8. I actually took the remains of my hat and showed the hat fitter in the shop, even though I didn't buy the hat there. She was absolutely horrified by both the hat and my face! She said she has never even seen pictures of damaged hats that look like that, never mind one that has been brought into the shop! She agreed that BETA need to be made aware and gave me the contact details. My 'hat remains' actually gathered a crowd in the shop and one lady shopper had been thinking of buying a KEP.....not any more!!!


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## MozartK (28 June 2015)

Pebble101 said:



			What are the safety standards shown in the hat?
		
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The hat standard in the hat is EN 1384:1996


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## Meowy Catkin (28 June 2015)

There's a bit about the safety standards here. http://www.kephats.co.uk/page_2532503.html

Was your hat the Cromo Mica (black grill, silver surround) OP?

I never liked the look of the 'stirrup' on the front of the hat, so never looked into them. Wow they are expensive and to have fallen apart like that is very worrying. Maybe constructing a riding hat out of 'interconnecting panels' is a bad idea?


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## soulfull (28 June 2015)

Can I ask which style it is and what the safety standard  should be.   Thanks


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## MozartK (28 June 2015)

Faracat said:



			There's a bit about the safety standards here. http://www.kephats.co.uk/page_2532503.html

Was your hat the Cromo Mica (black grill, silver surround) OP?

I never liked the look of the 'stirrup' on the front of the hat, so never looked into them. Wow they are expensive and to have fallen apart like that is very worrying. Maybe constructing a riding hat out of 'interconnecting panels' is a bad idea?
		
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This is my hat;

http://www.kephats.co.uk/ourshop/pr...eather-Inserts-52500-Exc-VAT-630-Inc-VAT.html

I totally agree, its the panel design that has caused the hat to fall apart. The point of impact was the left hand side of my forehead. It seems the impact has pushed up into the shell of the hat, breaking the inner foam 'strips' holding in the front panel allowing the front panel to push out. Then the impact has cracked the main body of the hat across the very top which has allowed the breakage of the rear foam 'strips' which allowed the back panel to be pushed out. Its easy to see exactly how it has happed when you look at the remains and basically hitting it on the front panel join at the very bottom, has caused the hat to 'explode'. The reason it has 'exploded' I believe, is due to the panel design and also their 'unique ventilation' system.....basically 2 strips of foam that are about an inch wide holding in those front and back panels. It is these strips of foam that have snapped on impact, allowing the panels to push out. They may as well just remove the front and back panels to give the hat a really good ventilation system.....at least then people would know exactly what they were buying!!!


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## blood_magik (28 June 2015)

it will be interesting to hear what KEP say about it coming apart. 

the same thing happened to my friend's hat. She came off and her horse either kicked or stood on her head (there was a hoof-shaped dent in it). Her hat ended up in four pieces. 
She walked away with a concussion and a few stitches so the hat did its job - at the time the doctor was certain she has a skull fracture.

Glad you're okay after your fall.


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## TGM (28 June 2015)

It is interesting that the hat only conforms to the safety standard that is currently being phased out by most of the equestrian organisations such as BE, PC, BRC etc, and none of the higher standards that will still continue to be permitted (such as PAS 015, Snell E2001 and AS/NZS 3838).  I'm not sure whether the damage is a result of your individual hat being of faulty construction, or whether this illustrates the inferiority of the testing for EN 1384:1996.


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## rara007 (28 June 2015)

I think it is PAS015 TGM? Website claims it anyway!


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## TGM (28 June 2015)

rara007 said:



			I think it is PAS015 TGM? Website claims it anyway!
		
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I'm only going by what the OP said the standard in the hat was, in her answer to Pebble101, but perhaps there were other standards marked on the hat that she missed?


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## ester (28 June 2015)

Even if it was only EN1384 I wouldn't expect it to do that, I use one daily but as one piece of foam it isn't going to pop out any time soon.. in fact current one is a replacement for the previous one that my pony managed to get stuck on his foot but only made a hoof print in.

I also didn't realise quite how expensive they were :eek3:.

It will be interesting to see what responses you get OP.


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## dominobrown (28 June 2015)

Thanks for posting OP, absolutely disgusting from KEP. I was considering one of those! Think I will stick with gatehouse hats. Glad your are ok but you should share that as much as possible. Also would be very interested what KEP have to say for themselves... 
In that price range I would expect at hat that was safe, they are some of most expensive hats you can buy...


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## MozartK (28 June 2015)

TGM said:



			I'm only going by what the OP said the standard in the hat was, in her answer to Pebble101, but perhaps there were other standards marked on the hat that she missed?
		
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Definitely only tested to EN 1384. I bought the hat in 2012 but didn't really start using it until last year, as horse was injured. However, I just noticed the manufacturing date of the hat was 2008, so in effect I purchased a 4 year old hat. I'm not saying that the age of the hat is responsible for the failure but it could be a possibility. Is it common practice to purchase a hat from stock of this age???? Saying that, I still wouldn't expect failure to this extreme, from a hat of this calibre.

Does anyone have one of the more recent KEP hats, that are tested to the PAS015 standard? Does it still have the same design i.e. does it have two strips of foam glued to the front and back panels, holding them in place? You should be able to see this if you take out the removable lining, at least you can on my older one.


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## rara007 (28 June 2015)

Ah ok! The link said PAS - guess the new ones are hence the confusion


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## Prince33Sp4rkle (29 June 2015)

i am fairly sure that all KEP's are PAS even if not stated inside each hat. the new ones will say it due to the kerfuffle with changing standards but the old ones do conform anyway (as per what KEP have previously clarified).

doesnt detract from this incident but just to clarify.


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## MozartK (29 June 2015)

So, as recommended by the hat fitter I chatted to, I contacted BETA for advice. Totally not interested, in fact she asked me 'What exactly are you telling me about it for'? !!!!!! Unbelievable! Anyway, eventually she told me to contact the British Standards Institute who were really helpful. They told me that the KEP hats carry a British kite mark and gave me the number (KM558234). They then told me to contact trading standards and to give them this KM number. I then called Trading Standards Helpline, gave them all of the information and apparently the correct person to deal with this issue will call me back sometime over the next few days. He advised me not to part with the hat as trading standards will probably want to inspect it.

I also set about trying to contact KEP, however it seems that the contact number is for their UK distributor, so I called her.
She was actually quite pleasant and even asked if I was ok. I explained the situation and she said the procedure is to return the hat to KEP. Obviously I explained I couldn't do this, so agreed to send her photographs. She said it is likely Trading Standards will contact her as she imports the hats. I will have another bash later at trying to contact KEP directly in Italy.

So at least I feel like I have made some progress but am disheartened by the response of some people particularly the lady at BETA. She suggested that the helmet may be designed to disintegrate on impact. I can understand why she said that but I pointed out that had the fall been a rotational fall, the horse would of landed on top of me, after I had lost the hat! So disintegrating on impact is definitely not acceptable! Secondly, my accident was kind of brushed off by the KEP lady as 'just one incident'. Regardless of it being 'just one incident', if there is a design fault or similar then an investigation could save someone's life, should they be unfortunate enough to suffer 'just another one incident'.

I will keep you all posted should I make any further progress. If anyone has any further ideas then feel free to share!

ETS: I now have an Italian contact number for KEP


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## MozartK (29 June 2015)

Here are some further photos showing the inside of the hat and the shearing of the foam inner. Notice both the front and back panel foam pieces have sheared in exactly the same place. I have counted the number of separate breaks/shears of the foam and it has sheared in 12 different places!

http://s880.photobucket.com/user/MozartK/media/Hat 12.jpg.html

http://s880.photobucket.com/user/MozartK/media/Hat 16.jpg.html

http://s880.photobucket.com/user/MozartK/media/Hat 14.jpg.html

http://s880.photobucket.com/user/MozartK/media/Hat 10.jpg.html


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## Tapir (29 June 2015)

Many years ago I worked for a company who manufactured riding hats.  We were told that although the EN standard should in theory be the same where ever the hat was manufactured, in practice hats were far more likely to pass if tested in certain countries, than in others.  A very popular & expensive hat at the time had the EN 1384 standard but it was possible to take them apart with your hands.  As far as I remember, the BS mark shows that the hat was tested in the UK.  I'd never buy a hat without it.

ETA I see this helmet did carry the kite mark - that makes it even more shocking and BETA/BSI should definitely take action


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## Tiddlypom (29 June 2015)

OP, are you a BHS Gold member? Maybe you can get some advice as to how to proceed from their legal helpline? Also contact H&H news dept? They may want to follow it up.

Thanks for posting about this, its shocking how the hat has come apart, it's a bit like a chocolate orange splitting up into segments.


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## keepitugly (29 June 2015)

I saw a pony rider have a crashing fall through a fence in the collecting ring last year and her KEP hat smashed up, she was down for quite a while but I think she was okay, definitely concussed, I remember saying to myself then I would never ever get one. Strange thing is a lot of parents saw this fall yet most of the kids are still wearing KEPs!


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## MozartK (30 June 2015)

Just a quick update.....I spoke with KEP Italia this morning and informed them of my accident and that their hat had fallen apart on impact. They told me that they do not deal with customers directly and will only deal with the distributor. They told me to follow procedure and to take the hat back to the shop I bought it from, they will return it to the distributor, who will then return it to KEP. KEP will then carry out an investigation and will either offer me a new replacement hat or they will repair the old one!!! I am absolutely lost for words!!!

Thank God this hat carries a UK kite mark and that hopefully someone from Trading Standards will be interested enough to make a full investigation and inspect what's left of the hat!


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## MozartK (30 June 2015)

keepitugly said:



			I saw a pony rider have a crashing fall through a fence in the collecting ring last year and her KEP hat smashed up, she was down for quite a while but I think she was okay, definitely concussed, I remember saying to myself then I would never ever get one. Strange thing is a lot of parents saw this fall yet most of the kids are still wearing KEPs!
		
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I wonder if they reported this. After speaking with KEP and now knowing their procedure, it would be really easy to cover up an incident like this. I know for sure, that this is one incident that wont be covered up!


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## ester (30 June 2015)

Repair the old one.................


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## Doormouse (30 June 2015)

MozartK said:



			Just a quick update.....I spoke with KEP Italia this morning and informed them of my accident and that their hat had fallen apart on impact. They told me that they do not deal with customers directly and will only deal with the distributor. They told me to follow procedure and to take the hat back to the shop I bought it from, they will return it to the distributor, who will then return it to KEP. KEP will then carry out an investigation and will either offer me a new replacement hat or they will repair the old one!!! I am absolutely lost for words!!!

Thank God this hat carries a UK kite mark and that hopefully someone from Trading Standards will be interested enough to make a full investigation and inspect what's left of the hat!
		
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Don't think I will be buying one after seeing the hat and then hearing their response.

Glad you were ok, could have been very serious.


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## MozartK (30 June 2015)

Tiddlypom said:



			OP, are you a BHS Gold member? Maybe you can get some advice as to how to proceed from their legal helpline? Also contact H&H news dept? They may want to follow it up.

Thanks for posting about this, its shocking how the hat has come apart, it's a bit like a chocolate orange splitting up into segments.
		
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Although not a BHS member, I think I will give them a call anyway just for their opinion or any advice. I did think of H&H but am wary, as the issue has not been investigated. Should I hit a brick wall with Trading Standards then I think that is the time to approach equestrian media.


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## MozartK (30 June 2015)

ester said:



			Repair the old one.................
		
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Yip, that's exactly what I thought!


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## MozartK (30 June 2015)

ester said:



			Repair the old one.................
		
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Yip, that's exactly what I thought!


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## MozartK (30 June 2015)

Trading Standards called me back this morning. He explained to me that some types of protective headwear (cycling/motorbike helmets) are designed to disintegrate on impact, absorbing the impact preventing the wearer from more serious injury. I said that this technology may be suitable for cyclists etc. but would seriously question whether this 'crumpling' technology would be suited to a horse riding helmet. I explained that potentially there is a risk of a secondary much harder impact, after the initial impact caused the helmet to disintegrate. This secondary impact could be the horse itself or a horses hoof. If this occurred, then in a situation where a hat has 'crumpled', the rider would take the secondary impact of the horse or hoof without a helmet on their head! He agreed that this is potentially a serious issue that it should be investigated.

However, due to lack of funding it is unlikely this incident will be investigated, with it only being one incident. He is very keen to take this further but needs me to 'canvass' and gain support from governing equine bodies. He said that having more cases of failed hats would help build a case for further investigation, failing that then having the backing of governing equine bodies to help fund testing. Testing would involve TS purchasing a new KEP helmet and subjecting it to various impact tests etc. to determine whether they are designed to crumple on impact, whether the design is flawed, whether the materials of composition are inadequate or whether my hat was a faulted hat.

So, I have spoken to BHS and they are extremely interested. They have asked me to email all information and pictures of the hat. They will come back to me with a response and whether they are willing to back this project.

Who else should I contact? I'm thinking;

BE, BS, BD and H&H

Does anyone have any other ideas? Does anyone have any contacts they think I should speak to?

I know this will be hard work and it would be easier to walk away and get on with life........but I look at the remains of my hat and I just cant walk away!


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## dibbin (30 June 2015)

That's terrifying. Glad you're relatively uninjured though!


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## milliepops (30 June 2015)

can't help you with any ideas, my mind has gone blank, but just wanted to say well done for being so persistent  I think it's important to pursue this if you can.  Especially as the hats are so expensive - they should offer the same degree of protection as the bog standard ones.


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## rachel_s (30 June 2015)

MozartK said:



			Trading Standards called me back this morning. He explained to me that some types of protective headwear (cycling/motorbike helmets) are designed to disintegrate on impact, absorbing the impact preventing the wearer from more serious injury. I said that this technology may be suitable for cyclists etc. but would seriously question whether this 'crumpling' technology would be suited to a horse riding helmet. I explained that potentially there is a risk of a secondary much harder impact, after the initial impact caused the helmet to disintegrate. This secondary impact could be the horse itself or a horses hoof. If this occurred, then in a situation where a hat has 'crumpled', the rider would take the secondary impact of the horse or hoof without a helmet on their head! He agreed that this is potentially a serious issue that it should be investigated.

However, due to lack of funding it is unlikely this incident will be investigated, with it only being one incident. He is very keen to take this further but needs me to 'canvass' and gain support from governing equine bodies. He said that having more cases of failed hats would help build a case for further investigation, failing that then having the backing of governing equine bodies to help fund testing. Testing would involve TS purchasing a new KEP helmet and subjecting it to various impact tests etc. to determine whether they are designed to crumple on impact, whether the design is flawed, whether the materials of composition are inadequate or whether my hat was a faulted hat.

So, I have spoken to BHS and they are extremely interested. They have asked me to email all information and pictures of the hat. They will come back to me with a response and whether they are willing to back this project.

Who else should I contact? I'm thinking;

BE, BS, BD and H&H

Does anyone have any other ideas? Does anyone have any contacts they think I should speak to?

I know this will be hard work and it would be easier to walk away and get on with life........but I look at the remains of my hat and I just cant walk away!
		
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No contacts but copy in your MP to all correspondence.  Might be worth writing to ROSPA and BSI ( or whichever Standard it is)


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## teapot (30 June 2015)

MozartK said:



			Does anyone have any other ideas? Does anyone have any contacts they think I should speak to?

I know this will be hard work and it would be easier to walk away and get on with life........but I look at the remains of my hat and I just cant walk away!
		
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Pony Club, RDA (might be able to help you with that one) and the HPA. 

I say the HPA as I noted on the Kep website they make a polo specific one and given I saw someone take a mallet to the head on Saturday...


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## MyBoyChe (30 June 2015)

Following this with interest as we all have to trust and rely on our hats  being up to the job.  Im sure I remember reading somewhere that a riding hat should be changed every 4-5 years.  I note the OP says she bought it in 2008 but didnt start using it until 2012.  Im sure the reasoning behind changing it was something to do with the internal structure beginning to deteriorate.  This makes me wonder whether it should have been sold in the first place.  Is there, or should there be a shelf life to hats?  I am absolutely not an expert but just wondering if the integrity of the hat may have been partly compromised by age even before the accident?


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## Fuzzypuff (30 June 2015)

Also try the Mark Davies Injured Riders Fund as they do offer some advice on choosing hats etc http://www.mdirf.co.uk/ 

I *think* also in the past they used to do their own testing on hats as I remember looking at tables that tested some of the hats available at the time (this was a few years ago) and being a bit surprised at which ones came out top (not necessarily the more expensive ones, but this was before all the lightweight ones really took off) and I chose my hat based on those results as well as the kitemark.


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## MozartK (30 June 2015)

soulfull said:



			Omg that is horrendous.   Just as a comparison,  I took a big lump hammer to my old Charles Owen show jumper hat.   I couldn't make a noticeable dent in it never mind crack it.
		
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KEP seem happy to FB me but I cant seem to get them to chat on the phone. However, this is taken from their FB reply;

"We are ready to stand behind our helmets and to talk about how important it is to wear helmets when riding, or even when being around a horse. We are glad that Mrs. @Andrea Smith was wearing a helmet when she fell, and we feel she should be happy that the helmet broke like that, because this is what helmets are done for: break instead of your head. We cannot say that by wearing a helmet a rider is 100% safe, but we can state that good quality helmets contribute deeply into saving lives when riders fall and have head concussions".

So, they are saying that the helmet is designed to fall apart on impact. The issue then becomes, as horse riders, are we ready to accept that and buy a KEP hat? Do we accept that the breaking of the helmet will save us from further injury and take the risk that the horse wont fall on top of us, or its hoof wont strike our head after we lose the hat? Secondly, are any other helmets designed to do this or is it just this one?


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## ester (30 June 2015)

I presume from that they have seen the pics?


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## ester (30 June 2015)

MyBoyChe said:



			Following this with interest as we all have to trust and rely on our hats  being up to the job.  Im sure I remember reading somewhere that a riding hat should be changed every 4-5 years.  I note the OP says she bought it in 2008 but didnt start using it until 2012.  Im sure the reasoning behind changing it was something to do with the internal structure beginning to deteriorate.  This makes me wonder whether it should have been sold in the first place.  Is there, or should there be a shelf life to hats?  I am absolutely not an expert but just wondering if the integrity of the hat may have been partly compromised by age even before the accident?
		
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OP bought it in 2012, but it had a 2008 manufacturer date in it. I know we have had some discussions about that before and I will always check actual age in the future.


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## comet! (30 June 2015)

Aside from the fact the hat is in pieces, so not repairable, I'm shocked a manufacturer considers it acceptable to suggest it might be possible to repair a hat.  Don't most manufacturers recommend that a hat is replaced after a fall even if the hat doesn't appear damaged?


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## Cragrat (30 June 2015)

Op- glad you survived, albeit with bruising- it could have been worse if hoof had hit your head after your hat fell apart

Re: the age of the hat- I recently (a month ago) bought a charles Owen four star. Being a geek, I read ALL the small print that came with it, and it clearly said that 'modern hats do not deterioate sat on the shelf'. I don't know what they class as 'modern'.  I suppose you could ask KEP how long a 2008 hat was expected to remain viable whilst in the shop?


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## kate2323 (30 June 2015)

mine fell apart too - the front panel fell off after i was knocked by a young horse...really plasticy and shoddy...the actual helmet part as fine but KEP did'nt want to know......


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## sarahann1 (30 June 2015)

Hope it's ok OP, I've linked your photo bucket account on my FB page to warn others, those hats are a disgrace! Glad you're not badly hurt.


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## Kat_Bath (1 July 2015)

Good on you for not letting this go. I hope you gain momentum and manage to get something done.

I don't like style of hat at all. And one of the reasons I dislike it even more now is the attitude of the manufacturer in that message. Disgusting and almost full of denial.

I fell off last year and out of interest, contacted Champion about whether they could take it apart for me and show me the inside. They obliged so I sent it back and they sent me their evaluation of the damage. It was both amazing and horrifying as, on the outside, it just seemed like the coating had cracked. Their customer service was great and they were really helpful. And in taking my hat apart to show me the damage, they're showing that their hats do work. 

KEP have glossed over the fact that their hats actually don't work so I hope you sock it to them. Good luck.

ETA: Also, the wording about breaking instead of your head makes me feel a bit sick. It may just be a language thing but that's not right. AFAIK, hats are designed to take the impact of a bang to the head and therefore, minimise as much damage to the head as possible. Not break and leave you open to any second impact which could be worse than the actual fall itself. Raging on your behalf.


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## Hoof_Prints (1 July 2015)

thats appalling, glad you are ok OP. I went face first fall in to a cemented xc step the other week, hit it head on and my charles owen 4 star took a scrape but i walked away fine, sure I would have had serious injury in my other hats and would have been killed without one (not that I would ever ride without one). Going back to buy another next week as I now don't trust other hats!


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## DressageCob (1 July 2015)

There are many things which are designed to be destroyed on impact, so as to save the user. For instance the front bumper of a car. And also cycling helmets. That design certainly has its place. However, I'm concerned that an equine equipment manufacturer would think that design appropriate for use by a horse rider. The initial impact with the head on the ground (or on whatever it hits on the way down) can be pretty severe. However, there is a massive risk of a further (more severe) impact with the hoof or the body of the horse. If your hat disintegrated in the first impact, in the second you'd be screwed. I'm shocked they don't appreciate that. 

As it happens, I would never buy a KEP hat in any event. The price is one deterrent. The greater one is, however, when I was at a show last year there was a shop selling KEP (and other) helmets. As someone was looking at a helmet they knocked a KEP one off the stand. It hit the floor and broke into pieces, with the front panel (the one which protrudes) split from the rest. If that's what happens in a fall of no more than 5 feet from stationary, I didn't fancy finding out what would happen at speed with a fall from my horse!


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## MozartK (1 July 2015)

Thanks for all the ideas regarding organisations to contact. So far this is the progress I have made;

BHS - It has been passed onto Senior Exec of Safety
BE - Passed onto National Safety Officer and Sports Operations Mgr
H&H - Passed onto News Editor

I am waiting to hear back from the above.

Other organisations I will be contacting are;

Mark Davies Injured Riders Fund, PC, BS, BD, BRC, RDA, HPA, Jockey Club and any others you can think of.

I have sent them a description of the fall, photographs of the hat and have raised their awareness to the following issues;

1) Was my hat a faulty hat, made from substandard materials or was it designed to disintegrate on impact? 
2) If the hat is designed to do this, as confirmed by the manufacturer, is this technology acceptable for a horse riding helmet? Obviously pointing out the risk of a much larger secondary impact after the rider's initial fall and the hat disintegrating.
3) If some of the new designs of helmet are designed to disintegrate on impact, should that be evident when marketing the product? Should the consumer have the right to choose whether he/she exposes their bare head to a much larger secondary impact?
4) Should the manufacturing date of the helmet be clearly visible on the helmet and packaging? Should a hat that is already 3 years old be on sale in a shop? Should hats have a shelf life if materials of construction deteriorate over a period of time?

Hopefully, someone, somewhere will be interested!

Also, KEP have decided they would like to speak with me directly.....so watch this space!


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## MozartK (1 July 2015)

sarahann1 said:



			Hope it's ok OP, I've linked your photo bucket account on my FB page to warn others, those hats are a disgrace! Glad you're not badly hurt.
		
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No problem, I don't mind you sharing these pictures at all.


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## MozartK (1 July 2015)

kate2323 said:



			mine fell apart too - the front panel fell off after i was knocked by a young horse...really plasticy and shoddy...the actual helmet part as fine but KEP did'nt want to know......
		
Click to expand...

It is people like you that are going to add weight to this situation. Trading Standards have asked me to canvass and find other people like yourself who have suffered a similar incident with one of these hats. If anyone else that hasn't already posted, has had a similar experience then please post, as I will be showing Trading Standards this thread containing these comments. The more incidents the better as it may mean that TS will carry out an investigation.


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## MozartK (1 July 2015)

ester said:



			I presume from that they have seen the pics?
		
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Not yet but they soon will. I emailed the pictures to their distributor as KEP wouldn't deal with me directly!


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## MozartK (1 July 2015)

comet! said:



			Aside from the fact the hat is in pieces, so not repairable, I'm shocked a manufacturer considers it acceptable to suggest it might be possible to repair a hat.  Don't most manufacturers recommend that a hat is replaced after a fall even if the hat doesn't appear damaged?
		
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Check out their home page and their tips on how to mount a horse safely! They suggest that after a fall you need to check your hat is not damaged!

It should tell you to check that the pieces of your hat are not damaged!


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## TheSylv007 (1 July 2015)

Very worrying indeed, especially as they are so expensive - seems that you aren't paying for superior safety.  Typical Italian build quality....


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## Vittoria (3 July 2015)

Dear Pebble101 / 
KEP Italia helmets bear five of the most severe international safety standards worldwide: the SEI/ASTM: F1163, the KITE MARK, the IC Mark EN1384, the PAS015: 2011 KITE MARK and the most recent rules set by the CE VG1 01.040 2014-12. 
KEP Italia helmets actually were the first worldwide to comply to these most recent rules.


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## ester (3 July 2015)

I don't understand what that proves in this instance?


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## Vittoria (3 July 2015)

ester said:



			I don't understand what that proves in this instance?
		
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This was just an answer to Pebble101 who asked what homologations KEP Italia helmets bear.


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## Tiddlypom (3 July 2015)

Vittoria said:



			KEP Italia helmets actually were the first worldwide to comply to these most recent rules.
		
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If your normal production run of helmets also meet these standards, how do you explain the catastrophic failure of the OP's helmet in a simple fall?


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## ester (3 July 2015)

Vittoria said:



			This was just an answer to Pebble101 who asked what homologations KEP Italia helmets bear.
		
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Well no, she actually asked what it said inside the hat which is below, the 2011 kitemark etc is therefore irrelevant in this instance as the hat has a date of manufacturer earlier than that, though it was purchased by the OP some years after that date which we have agreed is also possibly an issue.


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## conniegirl (3 July 2015)

I won't be buying one that's for sure! 
Will be sticking to my CHampion hat.
I wore one when I had a rotational fall horse landed on me and the hat did its job then, it also did its job when the horse stood on my head whilst trying to get to his feet.
One hat, two blows in very short succession (about 30seconds) and the hat seemed to have very little damage to it.


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## DD265 (3 July 2015)

I'm glad you're OK!

You could also try speaking to some of the equine insurance companies. 1) they may be interested in helping to back the investigation but 2) they may also have had some claims from falls where these hats were worn.

Also there are other horsey magazines that might spread the word.


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## KEP Italia (3 July 2015)

I wish to personally reply to Mrs. Andrea Smith and to all the people who are interested in knowing something more about *safety*. 

Im really sorry to see Mrs. Smiths  reaction against our helmets after her fall. I would like to explain to her that a such a breaking of a helmet during a fall can only be caused by *strong impacts* received at the moment of the crash, or by the *kicking or rolling of a horse on the helmet*. 
Looking at the pictures shown, I really consider that the helmet must have been smashed and destroyed by a strong pressure like the one produced by a horse, if we believe that she fell on the grass as she said.
A helmet cannot explode, it cannot be disintegrated that way by itself. 
A helmets break is important in case of hard impact because it absorbs the shock and avoids that the head receives it. 

KEP Italia helmets meet the standards of up to *five international safety certifications*. KEP Italia helmets were *the first in the world to be labeled with the brand new VG01 homologation* and we strongly supported the release of these new standards, which higher the level protection of all helmets certified only by the CE 1384-2011.
KEP Italia helmets did not need to undergo any kind of change to meet the new VG01 homologation and to successfully pass all the requested tests, because they already complied with the most severe international standards, such as the PAS015:2011 Kite Mark, ASTM F1163.04a, SEI, and IC certification. 
In order to be approved by any one of the five homologations which KEP Italia helmets bear, all helmets must undergo *severe testing*. The tests are set in order to make sure *a helmet is able to resists to all kind of strains.*
KEP Italia helmets are light, comfortable and ventilated: each detail and material we use is the result of *deep research* for the most advanced produce of the market and attention to details. Yet everything undergoes deep testing and there is no element of our helmet that is casually put together. Glues and foams and polystyrene and varnishes and coatings and linings and the chinstrap are thoroughly tested inside our company and inside testing labs. *Most of our tests are done in the UK *and the companies that release the homologations not only request that we supply big quantities of helmets they use for the testing inside their labs, but also regularly inspect the standard production inside our facilities to make sure that *all our production complies with their standards*. *Safety is a big investment to which we are committed loyally.*
We are ready to stand behind our helmets and to talk about how important it is to *wear helmets when riding*, or even when being around a horse.  Mrs. Andrea Smith was wearing a helmet when she fell, and we feel she should be happy that the helmet broke like that, because this is what helmets are manufactured for: to protect the rider. 
We cannot say that by wearing a helmet a rider is 100% safe, but we can state that good quality helmets contribute deeply into saving lives when riders fall and have head concussions. We receive testimonies by riders and parents of young riders on a weekly basis: *they thank KEP for the protection offered in falls and accidents*, many of which are really bad. We are pleased to post some of these witnesses of different *riders whose lives have been saved thank to Kep Italia helmets* (see next posts).

Thank you for your attention, 
*LELIA POLINI *
Kep Italia Managing Director
www.kepitalia.com


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## ester (3 July 2015)

You appear to be suggesting that she did not simply fall on grass as reported? That sounds like dodgy ground to me! 

And the other report of the front panel came off when one fell off a tradestand?

It is of course important that a hat absorbs the impact but is this not usually done by the foam it is made of and the actual helmet remaining intact, rather than disintegrating to at least offer some protection from secondary impact. I am gobsmacked that you still say she should be happy that it broke like that :eek3:


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## KEP Italia (3 July 2015)

We believe *words are sometimes not enough*. This is one of those cases and this is why we decided to release a video we had never released before on our website or social media because we thought it was too strong and our intention has never been that of scaring riders. *Our intention has always been that of protecting riders. *
But protection is not a marketing issue, it has to do with life. 

In 2012 we received a thank you message by a Spanish young rider who had just fallen off her horse. Her story is very simple and her accident very well represents a normal situation: Almudena was not riding a difficult horse, was not trying to do something silly and everything was perfectly under control when her horse fell and landed on her head. The video she sent us very well shows how a good helmet can make the difference between life and death. While being relieved that all ended well for Almudena (who only broke her collar bone and was back in the saddle two months after the accident took place), this event reinforced our already very much felt objective to produce the best we could in terms of protection and safety. As already stated, our helmets are homologated by five of the most severe safety certification bodies worldwide.

Following is the message Almudena Terrasa sent us a few days after her accident took place:

_Its thanks to KEP Italia if I can say that I am alive. The tenth of august I had a terrible fall. What could have been a casualty, just turned into a big fright, and all thanks to the safety resistance that my helmet showed. If it had been another helmet, another brand, I would probably be dead. There is no better evidence than this fall to testify the strength of the KEP Italia helmets, for sure unparalleled, my head had no consequence, no shock, no pain, all the impact of the schock was absorbed by the helmet. The interior of the helmet was neither deformed nor broken. Its incredible. And now I only have to thank the producers of KEP for saving my life. An endless thank you.
_
*Watch the video of Almudenas fall here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_ferK4CQKI&feature=youtu.be.*


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## catembi (3 July 2015)

I had a very hard fall while jumping & fell on hard ground with a real whack.  My (Champion) hat made a 'crack' noise...but it didn't fall apart.  It still looked exactly like a hat.  Something inside it must have broken to absorb the shock, but it remained in place, & if I'd have got accidentally kicked as well, it would still have been on my head doing its job.

I know which hats I will buy in future, & which ones I'll avoid...

T x


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## KEP Italia (3 July 2015)

Dear Catembi, 
You are surely free to buy what you think is best for you. Many times our helmets react exactly the same way as yours did. Each fall is different and dynamics should be analyzed in detail before coming to conclusions. Please see the video we shared about Almudena Terrasa's fall: the helmet did not come apart in that occasion, while in fact you would have expected it should. 
Each impact and each fall and each accident has its own dynamics, just like in car accidents. 
Thank you.


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## conniegirl (3 July 2015)

This is my Champion hat after being landed on by 600kg of horse in a rotational fall onto concrete and then the horse kicked me or stood on my head when getting up. Note that it is still hat shaped and would have taken a 3rd blow if nessecary.





[/URL]

The hat was probably at least 5 years old and had had several minor falls prior to this major one, I walked away from the fall with no concussion or damage to my head or face.
Sorry but I would never ever trust a hat that fell apart like the OP's and I think it absolutly disgusting that KEP are refusing to aknowlege a genuine safety problem.
The damage done to the original posters hat is what I would expect to see had she been hit by a car, not from any reasonable normal fall let alone a gentle tumble onto grass.


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## conniegirl (3 July 2015)

oh and the above hat is only certified to BSEN1384.


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## KEP Italia (3 July 2015)

Dear Conniegirl
we are also quite surprised that the the Original Poster Mrs. Andrea Smith's helmet broke like that after a gentle fall on the grass. Maybe she did not realize the strength of the impact or the power of her fall, or maybe her horse stepped on the helmet after she fell. KEP Italia helmets undergo all sort of testing that they need to pass to be homologated by some of the most severe safety certification bodies in the world and when they undergo these tests, they never come out in that state as Mrs. Smith's helmet. It is quite difficult to believe that she encounter a soft fall on soft grass. In any case we are glad you were wearing a helmet when riding: this is the most important thing to say. All riders should wear a helmet, and possibly a safe helmet. To find out how 'safe' a helmet is, the only key is the quality and quantity of homologations a helmet meets. Thank you.


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## KEP Italia (3 July 2015)

*DANNY GRANT*
On Friday 26th of June, *Danny Grant, the Irish jockey* protected by KEP Italia, had a fall. Following is the complete report released by www.irishracing.com Saturday 27th June 2015:

***

*Danny  Grant was taken to hospital following a fall* from Waydownsouth in the Irish Stallion Farms European Breeders Fund 'Ragusa' Handicap at the Curragh on Friday evening. Grant's mount crashed to the ground early in the mile-and-a-half event, which was won by the Mick Halford-trained Shadagann. The rider was reported to have been knocked out for two minutes, but was fully alert afterwards and taken for checks on suspected left wrist and lower back injuries. A stewards' inquiry concluded the eight-year-old had clipped heals after a furlong and a half, leading to his fall.
*Turf Club chief medical officer Dr. Adrian McGoldrick was full of praise for Grant's helmet and back protector, as he got a kick from a following horse. *He will be automatically stood down for six days as a result of his concussion. Dr. McGoldrick said: 'You can see the dint in his helmet, where he was kicked. *There is no doubt the helmet and back protector saved him*.


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## KEP Italia (3 July 2015)

Following is a message we received the 23rd of June 2015 by Mrs. Louisa Jackson. 

***
Dear Kep,
I have recently had a fairly nasty rotational fall resulting in the most of *the body of my horse landing on my head*, the doctors have said that the Kep jockey skull saved my life... A huge thank you for producing such comfy and life saving hats! 
Many thanks, Louisa Jackson.


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## conniegirl (3 July 2015)

KEP I am highly dubious of any hat that falls apart like that in any fall, I have seen hats that have been run over with less damage.
The OP has an email from yourselves offering to repair the hat, I'm sorry but that offer alone screams dangerous and micky mouse company with no regard for safety

When you accusse your consumers of lieing you are on a very very slippery PR slope. May I suggest you get a proper PR person to deal with this for you.

Oh and I would stop posting the supposed reviews. Anyone can type out fake reviews onto any website. Posting them only harms your credibility. If you were to post Links to reviews or reccomendations from independant sources, like news paper articles or publicly available test reports then that would improve your credibility.


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## KEP Italia (3 July 2015)

Conniegirl. 
Have you seen the video we shared with you tonight? 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_ferK4CQKI&feature=youtu.be
please let us know if that looks fake?
thank you.


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## KEP Italia (4 July 2015)

On January 6th, 2014, we received this letter from Gillie Hutchins, from the UK: 

***

_A massive thank you to all of you at Kep!
This morning my 14 year old daughter had a horrible fall from her pony. Through sheer bad luck he caught her on the ground, standing on her head before cantering off. *The hospital cannot believe she escaped with only grazes to her face!* The hat certainly saved very severe damage..... at least. She did not even suffer with concussion and the consultant said that the hat was the best purchase I have ever made! The hat has a small crack from the impact but has saved my daughter! Thank you so very much._


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## HufflyPuffly (4 July 2015)

I entirely agree with Conniegirl, you are no favours to yourself here. The video is horrid and I'm glad you say the lady was fine, but equally it does NOT show the hat afterwards to prove anything about how it absorbed the impact?
I would never buy one of your hats based on how you have conducted yourself here, accusing customers of lying, offering no sympathy to the OP, only that you are sorry she has posted what a poor job one of your hats did! Absolutely  horrified by your reaction KEP italia, think you might need to reassess how you deal with criticism in a more positive light...


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## Llanali (4 July 2015)

No the video doesn't look fake, but we also cannot see the hat afterward. 

And that review? I could type that now.


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## KEP Italia (4 July 2015)

*CATHERINE PASMORE*

On the 6th of February 2015, we received this email by our testimonial from the USA: 

_I wanted to let you know that I fell off last week quite badly, straight on my head. Thanks to my KEP helmet, I only had a minor concussion but was able to ride again a day later. Someone else who fell off the same day in a different helmet, ended up with a brain bleed. I am so so grateful for the amazing KEP technology and am proud to be a part of the KEP team! Thank you!!!
_


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## KEP Italia (4 July 2015)

*ROBBIE POWER*

On the 6th of March 2015 we received this message: 

_Just in case there was any doubt about the safety of KEP Italia Helmets just look at the protection Robbie Power got at Leopardstown last Saturday when he not only sustained a crashing fall but survived a massive kick to the head. NO CONCUSSION AND CHELTENHAM BOUND!!!! Says it all really. KEP Italia Helmet the best head protection money can buy.
_


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## ester (4 July 2015)

I am truely astounded by KEP's response to this and postings on this forum.

All the good reviews in the world do not mitigate the fact that you have an unsatisfied customer, whom you have accused of lying rather than taking the (rather important) situation seriously. The OP has a hat in pieces and you responded offering a repair or replacement... REPAIR of a hat after a fall...do you not comprehend that the concept of that alone has people in shock let alone that the hat in question is now in several pieces.


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## ester (4 July 2015)

More reviews.... 

KEP I would suggest it would be better for your brand if you stopped posting or got a better PR person on this asap....


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## KEP Italia (4 July 2015)

As far as contacting Mrs. Andrea Smith, we would like to all of you know how that as soon as we came to know about the incident, we contacted Mrs. Smith writing to her on Facebook, since we had no faster way of getting in touch with her. She replied nicely and openly to us on Equi Med Ag Ltd page and she also told us she would call us. We told her that we were glad to have a chance to talk to her. When she called the person who answered the phone had not been informed about this issue and didn't know who she was. She thus received the standard answer, including the request to provide photos via the retailer when she had bought the helmet. We usually ask our customers to at least see the photos, so that we can see what the issue is. Of course in Mrs. Smith's case, the helmet cannot be repaired. 
As soon as we realized that she had called and spoken to an uniformed person, understanding that she had assumed that the standard answer had been given to her by someone who was instead informed of the facts, we tried to get in touch with her by writing her a private message on Facebook, but receiving no answer. So we wrote on the Equi Med Ag Ltd Facebook page asking them to let her know we were trying to contact her and to please ask her to call again or leave us her contacts. 
In the meantime our local distributors and retailers were given her email and number, so communications will now be direct and clear. 

We surely stand behind our helmets and the protection they offer. Again we repeat that a part from the words that we could post in order to explain everything, homologations speak for themselves. All of you are aknowledged people who can appreciate the importance of the most severe safety standards on an international basis. We are sure you all understand the importance of wearing a good quality helmet when riding, no matter the brand. This is the important part. We are committed into producing the best helmets we can, and we shall continue to be do this with an enthusiastic and focused attitude. 

We wish you all safe riding.


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## ester (4 July 2015)

So it is standard to offer hat repair after a fall.

We also know that homologations are a standardised test, they are the best we have but cannot replicate every real life situation so consumers will often not rely on them alone.


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## ycbm (4 July 2015)

KEP Italia said:



			As far as contacting Mrs. Andrea Smith, we would like to all of you know how that as soon as we came to know about the incident, we contacted Mrs. Smith writing to her on Facebook, since we had no faster way of getting in touch with her. She replied nicely and openly to us on Equi Med Ag Ltd page and she also told us she would call us. We told her that we were glad to have a chance to talk to her. When she called the person who answered the phone had not been informed about this issue and didn't know who she was. She thus received the standard answer, including the request to provide photos via the retailer when she had bought the helmet. We usually ask our customers to at least see the photos, so that we can see what the issue is. Of course in Mrs. Smith's case, the helmet cannot be repaired. 
As soon as we realized that she had called and spoken to an uniformed person, understanding that she had assumed that the standard answer had been given to her by someone who was instead informed of the facts, we tried to get in touch with her by writing her a private message on Facebook, but receiving no answer. So we wrote on the Equi Med Ag Ltd Facebook page asking them to let her know we were trying to contact her and to please ask her to call again or leave us her contacts. 
In the meantime our local distributors and retailers were given her email and number, so communications will now be direct and clear. 

We surely stand behind our helmets and the protection they offer. Again we repeat that a part from the words that we could post in order to explain everything, homologations speak for themselves. All of you are aknowledged people who can appreciate the importance of the most severe safety standards on an international basis. We are sure you all understand the importance of wearing a good quality helmet when riding, no matter the brand. This is the important part. We are committed into producing the best helmets we can, and we shall continue to be do this with an enthusiastic and focused attitude. 

We wish you all safe riding.
		
Click to expand...

You need t to get off this forum or get a proper PR professional to handle this. I have rarely seen a company of your supposed stature manage a customer complaint so badly. You have created a legion of people, now including me, who will never buy one of your hats.


Regarding the wonderful testimonials, can you please let potential buyers know how they can tell which of your hats will fall apart, and which will save the riders life, and then they can avoid buying the ones that might let  them get brain damage?



PS a riding fall is not like a motorcycle fall or other sporting incident or car crumple zone. It is simply NEVER correct that a riding hat fall to pieces, since horses often create repeat impacts for which the hat HAS to stay in one piece to offer any protection.

there is, quite simply no valid reason for that hat to look like that even if someone had taken a sledgehammer to it.


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## Sheep (4 July 2015)

I wonder what the response would have been if the OP had been seriously injured.


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## EquiEquestrian556 (4 July 2015)

So glad you're relatively unharmed OP. I'm speechless after seeing the photos, thank goodness that it wasn't on the road or you didn't receive a secondary impact, goodness knows what would of happened then. I know one thing, I'm sticking to my Gatehouse HS1s now, however the KEP hats weren't to my 'taste' anyway.

*KEP Italia*, you're making fools out of yourselves by coming onto a public forum posting all these 'reviews', all it's doing is making you look incredibly unprofessional. We cannot see the helmet after the fall in the video link you provided, so that doesn't help you either. I'm sorry, but you just seem to be denying everything the OP says, even calling her a liar, which is simply unacceptable. What's to say you aren't lying? If this were a bridle, or whip (that had fallen to pieces), I'd walk away from this thread thinking everybody was making a fuss out of nothing. But *this isn't, *it's a hat, a hat that is meant to *protect your head & brain from serious (often fatal)* injures, and in this case your helmet failed to do so. The OP had a very lucky escape, and she's doing the right thing by taking it further, as opposed to walking away and carrying on with life. It makes me sick to think of the outcome had she been on a road, or kicked. And to even think of repairing it - I'm lost for words.

Furthermore, if this is the way that you deal with 'feedback' that isn't positive, I'll be sure warn everybody I know that you're to be avoided, for faulty hats & service.


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## Kat (4 July 2015)

Good grief! 

Thank you Mozartk for posting. The pictures are horrific I would not expect a riding helmet to look like this after a fall unless it was an incredibly serious one involving crushing forces. 

I do hope that trading standards investigate this matter. 

It is making me wary of vented hats and I will certainly stick to a skull cap for high risk activities. 

KEP - your response to this does your brand no favours and I will certainly not be considering your products in future.


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## MozartK (4 July 2015)

KEP, if you have decided you would actually like to speak with me directly, then please contact your UK distributor on Monday. She has a full set of pictures, my email address and I will now send her my telephone number. I followed procedure, as you advised and provided her with the relevant information, as apparently you will not deal with customers direct. So rather than try and contact me via Facebook or public forum, I suggest you also follow your procedure!

I also find your replies within the public domain upsetting to say the least! I do not need to defend myself on a public forum, the pictures speak for themselves. I posted this to show what happened to me and my hat during a fall. People can now make an informed decision as to whether they choose to put one of your hats on their heads. I know for sure, if I had seen these pictures, I would not have been wearing this hat. Whether the disintegration of the hat was intentional is a different matter.....I do not want to wear a hat that is not going to stay on my head!


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## conniegirl (4 July 2015)

By contrast when I sent a picture of my hat to CHAMPION they sent a lovely letter saying how glad they were that I was not badly hurt in such a horrific fall. They sent me a voucher for money off my next hat and they sent a courier for my damaged hat so they could examine the hat and use the data from it to make their hats even safer. Once they were finished with the hat it was destroyed by them so no one could get their hands on it and potentially use it.

And that was their response to a positive review for a £60 hat! That is how you do PR properly! Every hat I have bought since (and there have been around 10) has been a champion one

For a £400 hat I would expect far far better service and a professional company who bothers to respond in a timely an efficient manner, not one that accuses the consumer of lying.

Again KEP anyone including yourself could have written those reviews. You have yet to provide a link to genuine independant reviews.

I too have shared the photos on Facebook and my friends are suitably horrified (Op I hope you don't mind)


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## ester (4 July 2015)

That is more the sort of response I would expect - along the lines that whatever standards it has passed there is always the possibility of improvement by looking at real life situations. Most of us wouldn't actually expect a repair/replacement of a hat after a fall however pricey the hat as that is an expected cost of hitting the floor  but champion's response with regards to examining the hat seems much more usual.


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## MozartK (4 July 2015)

conniegirl said:



			By contrast when I sent a picture of my hat to CHAMPION they sent a lovely letter saying how glad they were that I was not badly hurt in such a horrific fall. They sent me a voucher for money off my next hat and they sent a courier for my damaged hat so they could examine the hat and use the data from it to make their hats even safer. Once they were finished with the hat it was destroyed by them so no one could get their hands on it and potentially use it.

And that was their response to a positive review for a £60 hat! That is how you do PR properly! Every hat I have bought since (and there have been around 10) has been a champion one

For a £400 hat I would expect far far better service and a professional company who bothers to respond in a timely an efficient manner, not one that accuses the consumer of lying.

Again KEP anyone including yourself could have written those reviews. You have yet to provide a link to genuine independant reviews.

I too have shared the photos on Facebook and my friends are suitably horrified (Op I hope you don't mind)
		
Click to expand...

No problem, I don't mind at all.


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## southerncomfort (4 July 2015)

conniegirl said:



			By contrast when I sent a picture of my hat to CHAMPION they sent a lovely letter saying how glad they were that I was not badly hurt in such a horrific fall. They sent me a voucher for money off my next hat and they sent a courier for my damaged hat so they could examine the hat and use the data from it to make their hats even safer. Once they were finished with the hat it was destroyed by them so no one could get their hands on it and potentially use it.

And that was their response to a positive review for a £60 hat! That is how you do PR properly! Every hat I have bought since (and there have been around 10) has been a champion one

For a £400 hat I would expect far far better service and a professional company who bothers to respond in a timely an efficient manner, not one that accuses the consumer of lying.

Again KEP anyone including yourself could have written those reviews. You have yet to provide a link to genuine independant reviews.

I too have shared the photos on Facebook and my friends are suitably horrified (Op I hope you don't mind)
		
Click to expand...

I have to say that reading through this thread, the thought kept occurring to me that any genuine company that cares about the consumers who buy their (not cheap!) products would surely want to see the hat and conduct urgent tests to ascertain whether this was a one off failure of if they have a more serious issue to deal with.

I have to say that the response of 'well you aren't dead so you ought to be grateful' would be laughable if it weren't so shocking!


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## Pebble101 (4 July 2015)

ester said:



			I don't understand what that proves in this instance?
		
Click to expand...

I asked out of interest because I check hats at RC events.  Some of the most expensive hats don't have the correct safety standards but people think that because they paid a lot for it then it should be OK.  EN1384 is being withdrawn from next year for RC events.


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## Pebble101 (4 July 2015)

Following from my previous post:

I assume this is the only label in the hat but there is nothing about PAS015 (or any other standards) and no kitemark is shown.


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## ester (4 July 2015)

Ah yes, I was just pointing out to the poster (vittora?) that what current KEP hats are rated to was not necessarily relevant to the hat in question as it is older.


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## YorksG (4 July 2015)

I would think that if any one employed to ride, uses one of these hats that the Health and Safety Executive may be interested, given that they would be investigating any serious injuries received while the person was in paid employment.....


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## Tiddlypom (4 July 2015)

Tbh, I'd never heard of KEP Italia hats before now. They're ugly things, aren't they, with their panel construction. IMHO they look like the sort of cheapie you might find on offer at a discount supermarket.

The reaction of KEP to this instance of hat failure is cavalier and appalling.

The hats seem to be robust enough though, when freshly manufactured, to somehow pass the relevant safety tests. I wonder if subsequently, over a period of time in normal usage, the adhesives which are used to glue the panels together are being degraded, thus compromising the rigidity of the hat in a fall. Or maybe the hats are degrading post manufacture in some other way?

Whatever the cause of the failures, I wouldn't trust KEP to make a thorough evaluation, that's for sure.


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## GlamourDol (4 July 2015)

Mozart, might be worth posting this on the BD forum too!


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## soulfull (4 July 2015)

I am appaulled at KEP response. 

I am a medic at equine events and have obviously seen my share of accidents and have never seen a hat smash like that!! 

I personally took a lump hammer to an old Charles Owen hat of mine and after 10 mins of hitting it while on a concrete floor I could still not see any structural damage so I do not understand how on earth any hat could fall apart like shown.


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## Leo Walker (4 July 2015)

I had a fall hard enough to shatter my spine. I dont think I landed head first, but there was definitely an impact. I was wearing a JTE hat, one of the ones with the plastic panels on the front. There were some scuff marks to the covering, but apart from that it looked good as new. I cut all the straps off and binned it. Theres no excuse for a hat falling apart!


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## teapot (4 July 2015)

Another who believes no hat should shatter like that on impact. Would love to know how the KEP polo helmet reacts to being hit with a mallet...


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## Red-1 (5 July 2015)

I am astonished at the disintegration of the hat and also KEP's reply. 

It is appalling that they seem to be questioning the circumstances of the accident without even seeing the hat, or speaking to the accident victim (other than a conversation with an "uninformed person" - the on who suggested repairing the helmet).

The idea that the hat must have been trodden on after the initial fall is funny, as it was still strapped round the OP's neck! Plus, I have had a Champion hat trodden on, and it remained resolutely intact! 

I also once had a road accident where my horse was ar$e ended by a car, and we were flipped up in the air and skedaddled down the street, and I had long enough to wonder "What is that noise?" as I heard an incessant tapping noise,  only to realise that it was my head bouncing long the road surface. The hat looked fine, and although I had bad whiplash and a headache I was fine too. 

Not sure what would have happened if I had been wearing the KEP helmet...  

I sent my hat to the Mark Davies charity for them to take it apart for research, then dispose of it.

The "testimonials" from KEP seem to be about Jockey Skulls, which presumably do not have a panel design.

I would also expect the company to have sent a courier immediately on seeing the photo, or have a British agent collect it, to see if indeed the glue that holds the panels has degraded, with the intention of a product recall. 

I will not be buying a KEP helmet.

Glad you are OK OP, and am also so happy that your horse did not accidentally kick you once the hat had fallen apart.


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## mtj (5 July 2015)

I had genuinely been considering purchasing one of these hats.

Does anyone know if this hat, that has failed in my opinion, is the same construction as the current PAS015 model?  I'm aware that foam degrades over time, but surprised by the shell.

Also pleased to see the OP has been left with no lasting injuries.


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## EstherYoung (5 July 2015)

Red-1 said:



			I am astonished at the disintegration of the hat and also KEP's reply. 

It is appalling that they seem to be questioning the circumstances of the accident without even seeing the hat, or speaking to the accident victim (other than a conversation with an "uninformed person" - the on who suggested repairing the helmet).

The idea that the hat must have been trodden on after the initial fall is funny, as it was still strapped round the OP's neck! Plus, I have had a Champion hat trodden on, and it remained resolutely intact! 

I also once had a road accident where my horse was ar$e ended by a car, and we were flipped up in the air and skedaddled down the street, and I had long enough to wonder "What is that noise?" as I heard an incessant tapping noise,  only to realise that it was my head bouncing long the road surface. The hat looked fine, and although I had bad whiplash and a headache I was fine too. 

Not sure what would have happened if I had been wearing the KEP helmet...  

I sent my hat to the Mark Davies charity for them to take it apart for research, then dispose of it.

The "testimonials" from KEP seem to be about Jockey Skulls, which presumably do not have a panel design.

I would also expect the company to have sent a courier immediately on seeing the photo, or have a British agent collect it, to see if indeed the glue that holds the panels has degraded, with the intention of a product recall. 

I will not be buying a KEP helmet.

Glad you are OK OP, and am also so happy that your horse did not accidentally kick you once the hat had fallen apart.
		
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^ This, 100%

The correct answer should have been 'get the hat back to us ASAP so that we can work out what the heck has happened to it'.

Horse & Hound, this might be something you want to follow up.....


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## Shay (5 July 2015)

Like others I hadn't heard of these hats so I googled them.  It doesn't look like they meet the new standards - at least not  according to the KEP website.  I couldn't see any on their website which met PAS 015 - let alone the higher ratings.  What a salutary lesson - glad you're OK OP.


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## mtj (5 July 2015)

Shay said:



			Like others I hadn't heard of these hats so I googled them.  It doesn't look like they meet the new standards - at least not  according to the KEP website.  I couldn't see any on their website which met PAS 015 - let alone the higher ratings.  What a salutary lesson - glad you're OK OP.
		
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The current models do meet the new standards including PAS015, hence my query regarding construction.  I prefer to hack in a PA S015 helmet, and would love a properly vented version.


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## Tiddlypom (5 July 2015)

Taken from the KEP Italia website. 

http://www.kepitalia.com/FRA/Plus/A...Titolo=GOOD INTENTIONS       FOR THE NEW YEAR!

Fifth tip: CHECK YOUR HELMET AFTER FALLING
After a fall it is extremely important to check that the helmet isnt damaged. If the helmet reports cracks of any entity or any other kind of damages, it must be replaced. It is important to know that if a helmet brakes after a fall, well: that helmet probably saved your life by absorbing the shock of the trauma. *A broken helmet after a horse fall is thus a really good piece of news!*

Well, there you have it. I'll stick with my Gatehouse hats, thanks very much.


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## Sheep (5 July 2015)

With this thread in mind, when my bf found an old GPA Pikeur hat earlier, I decided to try and smash it up. I was pleased to see that even though it is an old hat that has sustained falls, it took several very heavy blows with a metal hammer before I was able to inflict much visible damage on it, which to me says it should in theory have been able to withstand a secondary impact in the event of a fall. I know a hammer isn't the same as a hoof but I was putting a LOT of effort into it!


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## googol (5 July 2015)

Oh dear. So so embarrassed for KEP. Terrible PR especially when I. Sure a lot of people look for reviews on horsey things in forums like this. I for one will never buy a KEP and will definitely advise all my horsey friends and family to avoid. 

Glad to hear the OP is relatively unharmed.  She shouldn't have to go through this "stress" to make other horsey people aware of how unsafe their hats may be, but that is shame on KEP

Lol at sheep smashing up a hat, interesting tho!


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## ycbm (5 July 2015)

Tiddlypom said:



			Taken from the KEP Italia website. 

http://www.kepitalia.com/FRA/Plus/A...Titolo=GOOD INTENTIONS       FOR THE NEW YEAR!

Fifth tip: CHECK YOUR HELMET AFTER FALLING
After a fall it is extremely important to check that the helmet isnt damaged. If the helmet reports cracks of any entity or any other kind of damages, it must be replaced. It is important to know that if a helmet brakes after a fall, well: that helmet probably saved your life by absorbing the shock of the trauma. *A broken helmet after a horse fall is thus a really good piece of news!*

Well, there you have it. I'll stick with my Gatehouse hats, thanks very much.
		
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Astonishing!

KEP appear to be completely unaware of falls where the rider's foot is caught in the stirrup and their head makes repeated impacts with the ground; rotational falls where the rider's head hits the ground and is then hit by the horse; falls where the rider is shot into a wall or fence and then also falls to the floor hitting their head a second time, or falls where the rider lands on the ground hitting their head and the horse then either treads on the rider's head or kicks the rider's head.

PAS015 or not, their helmets simply are not as safe as other manufacturers' helmets if they are making them to withstand only one impact.


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## JDH01 (5 July 2015)

This is breathtaking and enforces my belief in my Patey, and before any one comments it has staid on and then gone back for a refurbishment when I have had a fall with impact.


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## gnubee (5 July 2015)

The somewhat cavalier line from KEP about it being good that the helmet broke rather than your head (with no acknowledgement that it would be a million times better if the helmet didn't break and continued to protect your head) is concerning and does suggest that they were aware that there was a reasonable chance the helmet would do this. This raises an interesting question about whether the barn/ pas 015 standards pass this hat because they only test for a single impact as for bike helmets rather than incorporating an understanding that in horse sports multiple impacts are common and whilst an initial impact may weaken a hat, if it shatters it then it shouldn't be fit for riding sport. Would be interesting to know what the test criteria are.


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## Fuzzypuff (6 July 2015)

gnubee said:



			The somewhat cavalier line from KEP about it being good that the helmet broke rather than your head (with no acknowledgement that it would be a million times better if the helmet didn't break and continued to protect your head) is concerning and does suggest that they were aware that there was a reasonable chance the helmet would do this. This raises an interesting question about whether the barn/ pas 015 standards pass this hat because they only test for a single impact as for bike helmets rather than incorporating an understanding that in horse sports multiple impacts are common and whilst an initial impact may weaken a hat, if it shatters it then it shouldn't be fit for riding sport. Would be interesting to know what the test criteria are.
		
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Echo this, it is a bit worrying if the standards are for hats receiving a single impact as we know that's often not the way with horse riding accidents.

I'm also horrified by the KEP response on here, as mentioned above I think the sensible response would be to offer to take the hat and inspect it. Even if the hats are designed to fall apart on impact it is still possible that there was some degradation or error in manufacturing which caused this to happen far to easily, and I would expect the manufacturer to inspect the hat to make sure this isn't the case. 

I will definitely not be buying a KEP hat in future!


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## ester (6 July 2015)

I can only find the full testing regime for the snell 2001 standard easily. 

http://www.smf.org/standards/e2001/e01std#TESTING


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## Farma (6 July 2015)

Fuzzypuff said:



			Echo this, it is a bit worrying if the standards are for hats receiving a single impact as we know that's often not the way with horse riding accidents.

I'm also horrified by the KEP response on here, as mentioned above I think the sensible response would be to offer to take the hat and inspect it. Even if the hats are designed to fall apart on impact it is still possible that there was some degradation or error in manufacturing which caused this to happen far to easily, and I would expect the manufacturer to inspect the hat to make sure this isn't the case. 

I will definitely not be buying a KEP hat in future!
		
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I agree with this, had they handled this differently this would have died down ages ago, as it is the damage to their brand after this thread (which I see spread to facebook) is irreparable, I would never consider them after this! They could have offered to inspect and provided a free replacement which would have cost them a lot less in the long run that this thread now has!


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## MozartK (6 July 2015)

I have attached a couple of links which make for interesting reading. I can't get actual copies of either EN1384 or PAS015 testing standards unless I pay about £150, so this is the best I have managed to find so far. One thing is for sure.....the hat was meant to stay on my head!

http://satrappeguide.com/EN1384.php

Impact testing involves the dropping of the helmet onto a flat anvil and measuring acceleration/deceleration and then calculating the effect this would have on a human head (a slightly more detailed explanation is given in the document in the first link!). It does not mention whether breakage of the helmet causes a failed test, or whether the hat is dropped onto a specific area each time, or whether different areas of the hat are drop tested. I would be interested to know if the forehead/temple area at the front of the hat, just above the peak and to the side of the front panel was drop tested, as this is where my hat took the impact.

The second link is also very interesting. It shows where the issues are with EN1384 1996 and 2012 compared to other test procedures. Shock absorption and penetration standards for EN1384 are said to be low, so PAS015 should be more vigorous, so I wonder if it has multi drop zones on which the hat is drop tested? I am trying to get more info on PAS015. However, look at the section on side stability on page 3. I believe side stability is why my helmet failed and this document is basically flagging up side stability still being an issue, particularly in light-weight helmets and even suggests that the PAS015 standard is not sufficient to ensure good side stability. It basically says that light-weighting a helmet compromises side stability! 

http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/poli...6_formal_objection_against_en_13842012_en.pdf

I have also attached a picture showing where my hat took the impact and where the damage on my hat was sustained and which parts fell off. The blue circle shows the area of impact. The red arrows show both panels falling out, the crack across the top centre of the main body, the left side of the peak detaching and also the chin strap breaking away on the left side. I think you will agree that my fall tested the side stability of my helmet? 

http://s880.photobucket.com/user/MozartK/media/KEP hat damage description.jpg.html


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## MozartK (6 July 2015)

In fairness KEP told me to follow procedure and return the hat to the retailer/distributor to be returned to KEP for investigation. However, I was advised by Trading Standards to keep the hat, as they may want to inspect it themselves. Since there may be action by Trading Standards or others, I will follow instructions and keep the hat for now. Ideally, I would like an independent assessment of the hat and its performance, which would obviously not be the case if I returned the hat to KEP.


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## kamili (6 July 2015)

I'm rarely a user on this forum, but boy am I glad I came on today. I am absolutely shocked and sickened by the photos and not to mention the response from KEP. I too will add my name to the list and say I will never buy a KEP hat.

I was in an equestrian store several years ago and asked about the KEP hats. the store assistant I spoke to has been fully trained around hat safety and is aware of all the standards and research into their safety. She strongly advised me not to buy back then so I got a champion hat at the time. The store stated that they were no longer happy to stock KEP hats and were removing them from the shelves. I am so glad she did as I did not know why as she did not go into the full details, but just stated they are not safe, Ever since then I will not go near them. This must have been 3-4 years ago.


KEP should be ashamed for that disgusting and disgraceful response. I'm glad you are OK OP and I hope you recover quickly.  I will never buy a KEP hat and will also recommend to my friends not to either.


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## MozartK (6 July 2015)

ester said:



			I can only find the full testing regime for the snell 2001 standard easily. 

http://www.smf.org/standards/e2001/e01std#TESTING

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Very interesting. Section E4 is impact testing and states that the hat is subject to 4 drops in 4 different places, which have to be on or above the test line (which I couldn't find). However, section E4.4 states that the tester can chose which area he would like to drop test, so long as it is on or above the test line. It also states that the tester must assess the hat and look for potential areas of weakness on which to perform the drop test. It also states that the helmets protective structures should remain intact during the test. So, to have a helmet designed to break up on impact does not comply with this particular standard. I really need to see PAS015!

Section E8 'Rigidity' is also interesting and is probably the test that addresses the side stability of the helmet.

If anyone knows how to get a copy of PAS015 or more information regarding testing to this standard, then please share!


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## ester (6 July 2015)

I think you have to purchase it 

http://shop.bsigroup.com/ProductDetail/?pid=000000000030204553

Fwiw my cycle hemet - which people often say are more designed to come apart to absorb the impact is also SNELL tested, as cycle helmet testing is even more a minefield.


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## Tiddlypom (6 July 2015)

ester said:



			I can only find the full testing regime for the snell 2001 standard easily. 

http://www.smf.org/standards/e2001/e01std#TESTING

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Its interesting that the testing procedure for the Snell 2001 standard is readily accessible, as according to the Gatehouse website '_Snell E2001 is the highest manufactured equestrian helmet standard in the world and includes a unique test that simulates a rider falling into a fence rail, or having a secondary hit from a horse's hoof._'


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## TheSylv007 (6 July 2015)

Having looked at the photos it makes me question the design of the hats - surely having panels means you need joints which are inherently weak.  I would always go for a solid, single piece hat which will always be much stronger than one which is in pieces which are stuck together.  I've never much liked the design, they look like the front of a Nissan Qashqai!


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## ester (6 July 2015)

Tiddlypom said:



			Its interesting that the testing procedure for the Snell 2001 standard is readily accessible, as according to the Gatehouse website '_Snell E2001 is the highest manufactured equestrian helmet standard in the world and includes a unique test that simulates a rider falling into a fence rail, or having a secondary hit from a horse's hoof._'
		
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I guess as a not for profit foundation it has a slightly different view on these things.

http://www.satrappeguide.com/EN1384.php

the only official thing I can find! http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/poli...6_formal_objection_against_en_13842012_en.pdf


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## teapot (6 July 2015)

Cor £65 to buy the pdf regarding the PAS015 testing!

I can only find that it's height testing (assume dropped from height), impact force, stability and crush resistance.


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## Kat_Bath (6 July 2015)

Just to say, I think the Facebook post by Faye (won't put surname just in case) is getting around. My mum shared it to my wall as she had seen it (she's not even horsey!) and was concerned I had one (I don't!). So it's getting some shares!


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## MozartK (6 July 2015)

Kat_Bath said:



			Just to say, I think the Facebook post by Faye (won't put surname just in case) is getting around. My mum shared it to my wall as she had seen it (she's not even horsey!) and was concerned I had one (I don't!). So it's getting some shares!
		
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Wow! That is good to hear!


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## CrazyMare (6 July 2015)

I think Faye is conniegirl who posted earlier about sharing to Facebook! 

I had seen the price of these hats and dismissed them on that alone, but I will have expected tge hat to act as any other hat, not disintegrate!!!


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## PorkChop (6 July 2015)

Maybe a stupid question - however are we sure that the poster "KEP Italia" is actually from the company?

It matters not with regards to the OP's situation and imo I think she has been treated appallingly.


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## MozartK (6 July 2015)

LJR said:



			Maybe a stupid question - however are we sure that the poster "KEP Italia" is actually from the company?

It matters not with regards to the OP's situation and imo I think she has been treated appallingly.
		
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Yes, its the Managing Director. I spoke with her today and she basically reiterated everything that KEP have posted on here and also on Facebook. Rather than get into an argument, we agreed to disagree about the performance of the hat and whether it had saved my life, whether the horse had trod on me or whether I fell onto a rock or stone amongst the grass. I insisted the horse did not stand on or kick me and nor were there any rocks or large stones amongst the grass. I informed her again that I have reported the incident to Trading Standards and want an independent body to carry out testing/investigation. She accepted this and asked that I inform her of any testing to be carried out.


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## conniegirl (6 July 2015)

MozartK said:



			Yes, its the Managing Director. I spoke with her today and she basically reiterated everything that KEP have posted on here and also on Facebook. Rather than get into an argument, we agreed to disagree about the performance of the hat and whether it had saved my life, whether the horse had trod on me or whether I fell onto a rock or stone amongst the grass. I insisted the horse did not stand on or kick me and nor were there any rocks or large stones amongst the grass. I informed her again that I have reported the incident to Trading Standards and want an independent body to carry out testing/investigation. She accepted this and asked that I inform her of any testing to be carried out.
		
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Even if you had smacked your head on a rock AND had a horse stand on your head I wouldnt expect the hat to fall apart like that. You saw the photo of my Champion Hat, it took me landing on my head on concrete, then the horse falling on top of me and then the horse standing on/kicking my head and was still mostly in one piece.


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## ester (6 July 2015)

Frank walked around the yard with my gatehouse air rider stuck on his foot.... he only left an imprint mark on the inside..... and a mark on my bank balance


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## Tiddlypom (6 July 2015)

conniegirl said:



			Even if you had smacked your head on a rock AND had a horse stand on your head I wouldnt expect the hat to fall apart like that.
		
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Absolutely this. I came off at speed on the road when the late chesnut git spooked and tanked off, and the only apparent damage to my Gatehouse skull was a scuffed velvet cover! Even though I spent a night in hospital with concussion and several hours of memory loss.


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## MozartK (6 July 2015)

conniegirl said:



			Even if you had smacked your head on a rock AND had a horse stand on your head I wouldnt expect the hat to fall apart like that. You saw the photo of my Champion Hat, it took me landing on my head on concrete, then the horse falling on top of me and then the horse standing on/kicking my head and was still mostly in one piece.
		
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Exactly. I explained that I was unhappy with the performance of the hat and even if the hat had disintegrated intentionally by absorbing impact, this is just not acceptable for hats designed for horse riding. Hence, I will be keeping the hat and taking the matter further with relevant bodies within the UK.


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## spotty_pony (6 July 2015)

This is awful! Glad you are ok OP! You ought to post this on Facebook to share it about on the Show Jumping pages to get everyone more aware!


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## Meowy Catkin (6 July 2015)

I'm another who's had a hoof V riding hat incident (with my head inside the hat) and my hat (Charles Owen) did not fall apart. In fact I got back on the horse and rode home in it with a really painful shoulder and a slight headache and only took the hat off to inspect once home. The hat had bad damage to the velvet cover and a big scuff and small dent on the hat itself under the torn velvet. The inside of the hat showed no damage and if I had been unlucky and fallen off again on the way home, it would still have offered some protection. It was of course replaced after that incident.


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## wyrdsister (7 July 2015)

Yikes! Just caught up with this. Very glad you're okay, OP! The disintegration of that KEP hat is terrifying. I got bronced off by a pony years ago, at speed, on a road, & thrown over the roof of an oncoming car. Never hit the ground so hard before in my life! Hat I was wearing was one of the ones with the cartoon ponies in, I've forgotten the make now. Champion? It was badly scraped and a bit chipped on the surface, but structurally still sound, thank goodness. My back protector was the same. I got away with whiplash & a mild concussion. Can't imagine I'd have been so lucky if any of my kit collapsed on impact...

Keep us updated on your progress, please?


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## Meowy Catkin (7 July 2015)

wyrdsister said:



			Hat I was wearing was one of the ones with the cartoon ponies in,
		
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Like this?


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## Meowy Catkin (7 July 2015)

While googling for a hat with cartoon horses, I found these photos which i thought were interesting to compare with the KEP ones.













Thread - http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/s...lmet-EDIT-Now-with-pics-of-smashed-old-helmet!

ETA- an interesting post from the thread (I'd love to know if they've seen anything as bad as the KEP on this thread).




			WOAH. I've only seen a few other helmets damaged worse than that....but of course, I WORKED for a helmet company (Charles Owen!). Of course, part of me wonders if it bent like that because of the type of material the outer skull is made of. If it had been a more conventional type material for the outer, it may not have bent - it may have cracked and looked a little less deformed (and would've protected the same).
		
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## ester (7 July 2015)

It is interesting to note that comments associated with any cycle helmets that ended in more than one piece ascertain that said helmet has failed, as once they split they are no longer transferring the force around the whole head as they should. Smaller cracks around the foam shows this has happened, but not further disintegration.

Faracat I had to google to find out what that hat should have looked like!


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## PolarSkye (7 July 2015)

£600+ for a hat?  If I'm paying that much for protective head gear, I expect it to still be in one piece after just one impact AND come with it's own personal medic!

P


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## wyrdsister (7 July 2015)

Yes, that's it, Faracat. Charles Owen. Thank you!

Also, word, Polar Skye!


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## teapot (7 July 2015)

Actually given someone has mentioned the forum, OP, it might be worth posting on the COTH forum a) with this thread and b) asking if anyone has ever seen damage like it. 

Getting a US perspective and even more awareness will help your cause. That hat is a mess BUT it's actually still in better nick than your's and that respective fall sounds a lot worse.


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## maccachic (8 July 2015)

The FB post made it to New Zealand  

This is a pretty good example of how not to do PR for companies Id say.

However I have seen a GPA whos panels had fallen off I think the modern design may not be the best and Im sticking with more traditional styles.  I've just got a new Champion.


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## conniegirl (8 July 2015)

maccachic said:



			The FB post made it to New Zealand  

This is a pretty good example of how not to do PR for companies Id say.

However I have seen a GPA whos panels had fallen off I think the modern design may not be the best and Im sticking with more traditional styles.  I've just got a new Champion.
		
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NZ was one of the first places it made it to. I have a lot of family in NZ and Australia and a lot of friends in the USA.


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## Tiddlypom (8 July 2015)

conniegirl said:



			NZ was one of the first places it made it to. I have a lot of family in NZ and Australia and a lot of friends in the USA.
		
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Even I, a Facebook numptie, tracked down your post. It's currently on 2,400+ shares, the word about KEP helmets is definitely getting out.


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## KEP Italia (8 July 2015)

FACTS ABOUT MRS. ANDREA SMITH'S HELMET AND KEP ITALIA'S REACTION.

*1. Introduction.*
We would like to clarify things as some points might not be clear, or incomplete. Many people are now commenting and jumping at conclusions with regards to KEP Italias helmets ability to protect riders, on the basis of a unilateral point of view. We would like to give you all the elements that together explain Mrs. Smiths case and KEP Italias reaction. 

KEP Italia as a company was born in 2007 with the specific objective to create a new and safe helmet. Safety has always been KEP Italias main concern and so much has been spent in terms of money, energy and time to make sure KEP Italia helmets were the safest possible. Since KEP Italia was approaching the market from scratch, its founders had a chance to also come up with something technologically new, using the most updated techniques to create the first CROMO helmet. Being an Italian company, design and looks were naturally an asset KEP Italia valued, but always as a secondary aim compared to safety. KEP Italia has never compromised with regards to safety. The secondary objective of KEP Italia, when building its helmets, was comfort. Comfort and safety had to go hands in hands, as these  we believed  were two features our new helmets had to have in order to serve riders in the best possible way. 

*2. Communicating with Mrs. Andrea Smith.*
Andrea Smith could have been one of the many riders that everyday thank us after falling from her horse because her helmet had protected her from a serious injury. Instead Mrs. Smith decided that her KEP Italia helmet had failed to protect her. After falling on the grass from her horse while trotting, she took a photo of her broken helmet and one of herself with blood all over her face and posted them on a Facebook page, and instead of using her personal profile to share this accident with her connections, she posted on Equi Med Ag Ltd page in order to gain maximum attention to the fact that KEP Italia helmets were not capable to protect riders. 

She then called our company and spoke to a person that was unaware of her posting on Facebook and who had not seen the pictures of the helmet. Someone who knew nothing about her specific case. She did not explain to this person what happened, nor in which conditions her helmet was.  Our employee explained to her our normal procedure: 
1.	that the best would be for her to go through the retailer where she had originally bought the helmet, who knows how to deal with matters like these ;
2.	that we needed to see the helmet in order to analyse it;
3.	that after this analysis we could have been able to give her more precise information on what could be done;
4.	he set some examples and talked about replacing, repairing and refunding, like we always do. 
Without seeing the helmet and knowing the precise dynamics of the accident, there are not enough elements to offer a suitable solution. 

At this point we would like to focus attention on what our instructions state (and they are included in the packaging of each of our helmet). Including this text in each helmets instructions, is a compulsory request made by each one of the bodies that release safety certifications. 

_Although this helmet reduces the chance of injury, in some circumstances injuries cannot be prevented. This helmet was not designed to protect your head if crushed by a horse. The degree of protection provided by this helmet depends on the circumstances of a particular accident. Using a protective helmet does not always prevent death or long-term disability. This helmet is designed to absorb the energy of a blow through partial destruction of the shell or protective padding material or both. This damage may not be visible and therefore any helmet, which suffers an impact, should be discarded and replaced by a new one as it may have exhausted its ability to absorb further shocks.
_
This also serves as an answer to the question that KEP Italia would suggest its customers to continue to use a helmet that has been through an accident of any kind. This is false as we suggest our customers to replace a helmet after a blow has been absorbed in many releases that are present in the product instructions, on our website, in our newsletter, in our communication materials and advertisement. We even suggest to our customers to turn to us to check their helmet in case they are not sure the helmet is safe, even when there is no visible damage. 

*3. KEP Italia helmets safety is certified.*
Our helmets undergo all kinds of different and severe testing before hitting the market and they are the only ones internationally to meet the standards of up to five of the most severe international safety certifications. Testing include a shock absorption test, a penetration test, a retention system test, a stability test and a lateral deformation test. Each helmet undergoes each of these tests repeatedly, which means that each one of our models must be submitted to the shock absorption test four times in four different areas of the helmet, then that same helmet has to be submitted to the penetration test and then the retention system test and then again the stability test and finally the lateral deformation test in four different ambient conditions (-20° and +50° ambient and water spray) (for PAS 015 and now also VG1). Only after that helmet has successfully passed these five tests for four times each, does that helmet receive an ok to be homologated under the specific standards. And our helmets bear five of those standards. All KEP Italia helmets are tested in Italy (Newton laboratory) and in the UK (BSI and Inspec laboratories) and the bodies that release the homologations not only request that we supply big quantities of helmets they use for the testing inside their labs, but also regularly inspect the standard production inside our facilities to make sure that all our production complies with their standards. This is expensive, and time consuming and energy demanding. We trust the bodies that certify that our helmets comply to the most severe standards in terms of safety and we turn to them to make sure our helmets protect riders and we go far beyond what is compulsory in order to release our models to the market. If Mrs. Smith is happy to question these safety certification bodies in order to find failures in their testing and certification systems, she is free to do so. She might even help to raise the standards of safety to the benefit of the whole equestrian system, and we are ready to contribute to that by improving our production continuously. But we cannot bear the accusations against our company based on her own reaction to her falling off her horse.


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## KEP Italia (8 July 2015)

FAACTS ABOUT MRS. ANDREA SMITH'S HELMET AND KEP ITALIA'S REACTION.

*4. Mrs. Smiths case.*
We understand the panic she encountered after falling, and we also understand her first reaction as a scared rider. But after all the testing our helmets undergo, it simply is impossible that her helmet broke down like shown in those pictures by gently falling on the grass while trotting. While we confirm that we have never said that Mrs. Smith might be a liar, we remind that it is very difficult that a person has a realistic memory if his or her own accident. Each fall has its own dynamics and it is almost impossible to know exactly what happened during the fall. 

Another aspect of Mrs. Smiths fall is not very clear and makes us think she really cannot recall what happened exactly. The photo she released of herself after the fall, shows dried blood dripping from her nose and over her lips, but this is really not what you would expect after a gentle fall on a soft and grassy ground. This rather suggests a stronger impact than the one she recalls. 
Moreover she said that she hit the lateral part of her head, which also does not really explain the blood on the front part of the helmet. 
And finally, Mrs. Smith said that her forehead was the place that was hit, and she said that this is where she has not been protected by the helmet: but there is no sign of blood or of a bruise on that area of her face. Only superficially light red skin

After all, assuming that the blood was caused by a stronger impact than the one she recalls, and assuming that she in fact hit the ground laterally,  we could state that her head was saved by her helmet. But these are just assumptions and we do not have a video or other evidence to understand what happened exactly. What is sure is that a helmet will not break down like shown in the picture after a gentle falling on a soft and grassy ground. 


*5. What might have happened.*
So, assuming Mrs. Smith is not liar, we suggest one of a few things: 
. that Mrs. Smith fell on a harder ground than she thinks, or that she fell in a more powerful way than she recalls;

. that Mrs. Smiths hat was not properly fastened (this is a very common situation unfortunately) and that she lost the helmet after she fell. In this case the horse might have stepped on the helmet in its effort to stand up after falling, or that it stood on the helmet in any other way;
Another, and worse, thought came into our mind: that someone might intentionally be mounting up this case with the precise purpose of damaging KEP Italias image. KEP Italia is a growing company and we know for sure that some of our competitors are reacting in a bad way to this, some of them even scaring off kids at shows by telling them stupid and false stories. 

*6. Conclusions.*
We are perfectly aware that the social media environment speeds up the travelling of information, and while we are going to take proper actions in order to stop the releasing of false information, we are committed into turning this into a unique opportunity to talk about safety. We invite all of you who have shared posts regarding Mrs. Smith broken helmet, to also share our response in order to let riders have all the data they need to build their own opinion. 

We are also informing the persons sharing false information that they should stop defaming our company and that they will have to assume responsibility for the consequences of what they say.

Thank you for reading.


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## ester (8 July 2015)

'he set some examples and talked about replacing, *repairing *and refunding, like we always do. '

This comment yet again, for any hat involved in a fall concerns me. - as per the instructions re. replacement that you say come with the hat. 

 'it simply is impossible that her helmet broke down like shown in those pictures by gently falling on the grass while trotting.'

Yet you have not yet inspected the helmet to investigate whether it may have had some sort of manufacturing fault, I think to suggest it impossible in that circumstances is quite a stance. 

Is there any comment about this hat being manufactured in 2008 and only appearing to have the EN1384 tag inside and no kitemark and therefore possibly not BSI tested/carrying those 5 standards at that time like your hats are now.

Do you stand by the statement that it has taken the impact and that is what hats are supposed to do?

I imagine that she was shocked that the helmet did that, hence wanting to spread wider than her immediate connections and would likely have sent the hat back to you for analysis had your initial response been more appropriate.


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## EquiEquestrian556 (8 July 2015)

KEP Italia said:



			Andrea Smith could have been one of the many riders that everyday thank us after falling from her horse because her helmet had protected her from a serious injury. _Instead Mrs. Smith decided that her KEP Italia helmet had failed to protect her._

Click to expand...

 Sorry KEP, but who could blame her? The way her hat ended up is disgraceful - I wouldn't even expect it to look so bad if an elephant had trodden on it! It is irrelevant whether this is the first of 100th time one of your hats have done this, it still failed to function correctly.

 I'd also like to bring it to your attention that, had you not started posting so called 'testimonials', and dealt with the matter more professionally, instead of posting accusations on a forum, this would of most likely died down ages ago. I suggest that if you would like to maintain even some of your remaining reputation, that you cease posting on this forum, it's really doing you no favors, other than losing more possible customers.


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## conniegirl (8 July 2015)

Kep you are just digging yourself a bigger hole!
This hat was not fit for purpose. No hat should ever fall apart like that! As I said my champion hat had very little damage to it after falling from gallop onto concrete, then having the horse land on me and then having the horse kick my head as it stood up. It probably would have taken several more blows if nessecary. I had a minor concussion and bruising to my face.

The injuries the op sustained are consistent with people who have falls not wearing a hat which realy doesn't bode well for your hat. Nosebleeds can be caused by any blow to the head no matter how minor since they are caused by small vessels in the nose tearing.


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## conniegirl (8 July 2015)

I have just received the following threat from kep



			Dear Conniegirl,

We are aware of your defamatory words against our products and our company in various posts on this Forum.
Please stop saying lies about our company. We ask you to take your responsibility for what you say and reserve the right to take any legal action against you if you do not cease to defame our company in the continuation of these posts.

Thank you.
		
Click to expand...


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## The Fuzzy Furry (8 July 2015)

KEP, you do realise that most grass here in the UK is on ground that is as currently hard as concrete?

Please, step back & look at the bigger picture.

A top end company (such as the UK's Charles Owen, or the motorcycle helmet makers Shoei or Arai) would have moved heaven and earth to rectify this from the outset.


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## EquiEquestrian556 (8 July 2015)

I understand that KEP hats may well be made to come apart when a fall occurs, and whilst that is fine for motorists, I don't think that it's the best idea for equestrians, as unfortunately a secondary impact occurs. KEP, this isn't meant as a criticism, but perhaps you should reconsider the way in which is 'dismantles' on landing, for riders?


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## DD265 (8 July 2015)

Well I don't know why we're all making such a fuss. Clearly the OP can just get some sticky tape from the pound shop (no need to fork out for any of this expensive super glue nonsense) and put her hat back together where it will doubtless save her from 100 more falls.

KEP - I think you would be wise to stop posting.


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## MozartK (8 July 2015)

Once again.......

My horse stumbled whilst trotting in long grass. I went over his head and landed on my face/chest. The left side of my forehead, the bridge of my nose and my ribs were bruised. My nose was bleeding and my lower lip was skinned. I have other photos which show the bruise on my forehead. My hat, even shown in some of the photos has grass stuck to it. The air vent has a grass stains on it. The livery yard owner was pulling grass out of my mouth after the fall. I have one person that saw me seconds before it happened trotting along the grassy field and I have a different person that saw me getting up off the grass seconds after falling, whilst phoning my friend for help to catch my horse, that was trotting around the grassy field. I was not concussed and I have a full recollection of events. There is blood on the hat as I unstrapped what was left of it and walked with it in my hands. My nose dripped blood on it as I was walking. My mental and physical state after the fall, i.e. no concussion and no broken bones and I was not winded, all suggest the fall was low impact. I was able to remember my pin code, unlock my phone, call my friend for help and catch my horse immediately after I fell, again all of which would suggest low impact.

This is my experience and was specific to me, in my situation. I appreciate all falls are different, which is why I believe the testing standards to which riding helmets are tested may need to take hat design specific to impact zones into consideration. Maybe they already do, I don't know but I intend to find out. There are several other issues that concern me such as the shelf life of riding helmets and the effect on performance, maybe this could have been an issue.....If I can get an independent evaluation carried out in the UK, then maybe we can draw some definite conclusions from my accident and hopefully reduce the risk of the same happening to anyone else.


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## squids (8 July 2015)

I had been considering a KEP Italia for my teenage daughter, naively thinking the more expensive a helmet was, the more protective it would be. 

This is no longer an option - not entirely because of the damning photographs, or MozartK's experiences, but the lack of customer service and wholly unprofessional conduct of the company. 

While the experience of the OP was terrible, and I sympathise, I feel like this has been a huge wake-up call for me regarding safety, and the need to check manufacturing dates and safety levels of new hate.


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## conniegirl (8 July 2015)

Squids, its also worth checking when you bought your current hat, my fall was a big wake up for me in that respect!
Now my hats are never kept for more than 3 years but I will admit to not checking manufacturing dates (though I do check the standards) I will be checking in future (she says having just bought a new hat without checking manufacturing date)


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## Fuzzypuff (8 July 2015)

KEP Italia said:



			FAACTS ABOUT MRS. ANDREA SMITH'S HELMET AND KEP ITALIA'S REACTION.

*4. Mrs. Smiths case.*
We understand the panic she encountered after falling, and we also understand her first reaction as a scared rider. But after all the testing our helmets undergo, it simply is impossible that her helmet broke down like shown in those pictures by gently falling on the grass while trotting. While we confirm that we have never said that Mrs. Smith might be a liar, we remind that it is very difficult that a person has a realistic memory if his or her own accident. Each fall has its own dynamics and it is almost impossible to know exactly what happened during the fall. 

Another aspect of Mrs. Smiths fall is not very clear and makes us think she really cannot recall what happened exactly. The photo she released of herself after the fall, shows dried blood dripping from her nose and over her lips, but this is really not what you would expect after a gentle fall on a soft and grassy ground. This rather suggests a stronger impact than the one she recalls. 
Moreover she said that she hit the lateral part of her head, which also does not really explain the blood on the front part of the helmet. 
And finally, Mrs. Smith said that her forehead was the place that was hit, and she said that this is where she has not been protected by the helmet: but there is no sign of blood or of a bruise on that area of her face. Only superficially light red skin

After all, assuming that the blood was caused by a stronger impact than the one she recalls, and assuming that she in fact hit the ground laterally,  we could state that her head was saved by her helmet. But these are just assumptions and we do not have a video or other evidence to understand what happened exactly. What is sure is that a helmet will not break down like shown in the picture after a gentle falling on a soft and grassy ground. 


*5. What might have happened.*
So, assuming Mrs. Smith is not liar, we suggest one of a few things: 
. that Mrs. Smith fell on a harder ground than she thinks, or that she fell in a more powerful way than she recalls;

. that Mrs. Smiths hat was not properly fastened (this is a very common situation unfortunately) and that she lost the helmet after she fell. In this case the horse might have stepped on the helmet in its effort to stand up after falling, or that it stood on the helmet in any other way;
Another, and worse, thought came into our mind: that someone might intentionally be mounting up this case with the precise purpose of damaging KEP Italias image. KEP Italia is a growing company and we know for sure that some of our competitors are reacting in a bad way to this, some of them even scaring off kids at shows by telling them stupid and false stories. 

*6. Conclusions.*
We are perfectly aware that the social media environment speeds up the travelling of information, and while we are going to take proper actions in order to stop the releasing of false information, we are committed into turning this into a unique opportunity to talk about safety. We invite all of you who have shared posts regarding Mrs. Smith broken helmet, to also share our response in order to let riders have all the data they need to build their own opinion. 

We are also informing the persons sharing false information that they should stop defaming our company and that they will have to assume responsibility for the consequences of what they say.

Thank you for reading.
		
Click to expand...

KEP you are indeed suggesting she is a liar, saying you are not does not change everything else that you have said which suggests that you do not believe what she has told you. 

Personally I am far more inclined to believe her than your suggestion of what else might have happened, I cannot see why she would have come on here with a fabricated version of events. To be honest though, even if her fall had been much harder I STILL would not have expected the hat to fall apart as it did. If you believe that this is ok then that is fine for you, but certainly not for me and for that reason I will never entertain the thought of buying a KEP hat.

I cannot believe that you are suggesting that she didn't have the hat done up correctly and that the horse might have stepped on it... seriously?! You are just digging yourselves into an even bigger hole. This is not the attitude I would expect from a company concerned with safety. 

I am also horrified that you have not considered the possibility of a manufacturing fault. With every product there is always a small chance of a fault in the production process, that is just reality. I would expect any reputable company producing safety products to investigate any complaints such as this one very carefully to look into the possibility of there having been a fault along the manufacturing process, or a problem with the materials degrading over time. 

"Horrified" does not express strongly enough how I feel about the reaction of KEP to this situation.


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## Circe (8 July 2015)

squids said:



			I had been considering a KEP Italia for my teenage daughter, naively thinking the more expensive a helmet was, the more protective it would be. 

This is no longer an option - not entirely because of the damning photographs, or MozartK's experiences, but the lack of customer service and wholly unprofessional conduct of the company. 

While the experience of the OP was terrible, and I sympathise, I feel like this has been a huge wake-up call for me regarding safety, and the need to check manufacturing dates and safety levels of new hate.
		
Click to expand...


this^^^^
I can't believe the price of these hats ( are they gold plated ? ), but more than anything, I am astounded at the response of KEP. 
kx


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## MissBaker (8 July 2015)

oh wow I saw this on facebook its horrific I hope they have refunded you your money these are supposed to save your life not fall apart !!! x


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## ester (8 July 2015)

ester said:



			'he set some examples and talked about replacing, *repairing *and refunding, like we always do. '

This comment yet again, for any hat involved in a fall concerns me. - as per the instructions re. replacement that you say come with the hat. 

 'it simply is impossible that her helmet broke down like shown in those pictures by gently falling on the grass while trotting.'

Yet you have not yet inspected the helmet to investigate whether it may have had some sort of manufacturing fault, I think to suggest it impossible in that circumstances is quite a stance. 

Is there any comment about this hat being manufactured in 2008 and only appearing to have the EN1384 tag inside and no kitemark and therefore possibly not BSI tested/carrying those 5 standards at that time like your hats are now.

Do you stand by the statement that it has taken the impact and that is what hats are supposed to do?

I imagine that she was shocked that the helmet did that, hence wanting to spread wider than her immediate connections and would likely have sent the hat back to you for analysis had your initial response been more appropriate.
		
Click to expand...

KEP I am interested in your responses to these points. 

Why do you ever suggest repair for a fallen off in hat when your product insert says differently?
Why are you sure there was not a manufacturing point?
What was the standard on a 2008 hat and was the structural integrity of the hat possibly compromised due to its actual age (not the length of time the OP had owned it )


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## teapot (8 July 2015)

KEP Italia said:



			he set some examples and talked about replacing, repairing and refunding, like we always do.
		
Click to expand...





			This also serves as an answer to the question that KEP Italia would suggest its customers to continue to use a helmet that has been through an accident of any kind. *This is false as we suggest our customers to replace a helmet after a blow has been absorbed in many releases that are present in the product instructions, on our website, in our newsletter, in our communication materials and advertisement. *We even suggest to our customers to turn to us to check their helmet in case they are not sure the helmet is safe, even when there is no visible damage.
		
Click to expand...

Which is it? Replace a hat after a fall, or offer a repair? No riding hat should ever be repaired IMHO. 

I too am another who would have responded in the same way as the original poster. I want my hat to survive if I fall off, so that I've got protection from futher impact, say I dunno, from something like being kicked by a horse?

I'd love to know what the opinions of Charles Owen, Champion and Gatehouse would be if someone had contacted them with a hat in pieces.


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## hairycob (8 July 2015)

Any accident can have freak combinations that lead to unexpected results & just maybe that is what happened here. BUT Keps posts on here would stop me buying one of their helmets even if they could 100% prove it was a totally freak event.


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## KEP Italia (8 July 2015)

Dear All, 
we understand your concerns because safety is an important issue. 
Please submit all your questions and doubts directly to kepitalia@kepitalia.com so that we can give you precise answers. 
Thank you.


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## MrsMozart (8 July 2015)

I came off at speed and hit the hard enough to sustain a bleed on the brain (scan available). My Charles Owen looked almost like normal, although it was replaced before I rode again.

Given the circs of the fall a kick to the head was only narrowly missed, which in my Charles Owen helmet would have been okay - thank heavens I wasn't wearing the OP's hat.

Charles Owen was grand when I rang to say thank you to them for making such a good bit of kit. They were sorry that I'd been hurt at all and were interested in seeing the scan and the hat, to further their research. A pleasure to deal with.


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## ester (8 July 2015)

KEP Italia said:



			Dear All, 
we understand your concerns because safety is an important issue. 
Please submit all your questions and doubts directly to kepitalia@kepitalia.com so that we can give you precise answers. 
Thank you.
		
Click to expand...

why can precise answers to my specific queries not be posted on here? Will the person on the other end of the email know what I am referring to?

Edited to change the title of the thread back!


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## The Fuzzy Furry (8 July 2015)

teapot said:



			I'd love to know what the opinions of Charles Owen, Champion and Gatehouse would be if someone had contacted them with a hat in pieces.
		
Click to expand...

I can help here: I had (still have) a Gatehouse hat with a front vent. The vent 'shifted' in the shell a few mm's after a small bump.
I took it back to my local saddler the next day, bearing in mind the hat was 13 months old. They looked at it and promptly offered me a brand new replacement & sent hat off to Gatehouse after. No quibble, I didn't even have to ask.
Happy customer


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## ester (8 July 2015)

Fuzzy you got in the way of my title correction!


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## Goldenstar (8 July 2015)

Kep ilalia , would you please state in a completely unambiguous way whether the hat is designed to come apart like that on impact ?


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## ester (8 July 2015)

I await your responses to my email with interest KEP.


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## Tiddlypom (8 July 2015)

KEP Italia said:



			Dear All, 
we understand your concerns because safety is an important issue. 
Please submit all your questions and doubts directly to kepitalia@kepitalia.com so that we can give you precise answers. 
Thank you.
		
Click to expand...

Finally, a more appropriate response.

Funnily enough, the page on the KEP Italia website in which you advise that a broken helmet is a really good thing, seems to have disappeared. However, here is a screen shot I took of the page as it displayed on the KEP website on Monday .







Note tip number 5.


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## ester (8 July 2015)

They could have got an English spell check on it too...


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## Goldenstar (8 July 2015)

Tiddlypom said:



			Finally, a more appropriate response.

Funnily enough, the page on the KEP Italia website in which you advise that a broken helmet is a really good thing, seems to have disappeared. However, here is a screen shot I took of the page as it displayed on the KEP website on Monday .







Note tip number 5.
		
Click to expand...

I am actually not surprised by this it makes sense , however whether it's better to wear a more traditional style skull cap that would have at least some protection if you impacted and then get rolled on or stood on is another matter .
I understand of course a vented hat can never give the level of protection as a non vented one because of the risk of say a splinter of wood going through a vent in an impact.
All these things are a judgement I understand taking the judgement to ride at times in a vented hat because they are cooler ,you think it through and take your choice , if you know your hat may come apart like a chocolate orange in an impact to disperse that impact you need to make a judgement based in that .
I think in this case the thing I want to know is was OP's hat faulty or was it working as intended in a trauma .


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## teapot (8 July 2015)

Ooooo 'KEP Italia have gone grey'.

That screenshot is interesting regarding 'if your helmet breaks it has done its job'. Well, I still wouldn't breaking to the extent of the op's.


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## sarahann1 (8 July 2015)

Wow, the response from KEP is pretty poor! How to fail miserably at customer service. 

I hit my head coming off a few years ago, smacking the back of my head hard enough, on a sandy forest track, to make my nose bleed, the one and only time I've ever had one. I basically flew, at considerable speed, out the side door, my hat remained fully intact and I rode home still wearing it. I continued to wear it for a good while after, before I knew how important it is to get a new one after a fall, I fell off another couple of times wearing it, it still never fell apart. It was a cheap and cheerful £20 (it was about 14yrs ago) Charles Owen job, brilliant hats.


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## Meowy Catkin (8 July 2015)

Just out of interest (I'm being nosey) can someone post what is being shared on Facebook RE this incident (I'm not on FB)?


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## ester (8 July 2015)

It appears to have been removed from Facebook. It was just a description of the fall, pictures of the hat and pointing out KEP's poor response. No email reply yet.


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## ChwaraeTeg (8 July 2015)

There is a link on KEP Italia facebook page


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## ester (8 July 2015)

https://www.facebook.com/FayeJaumotte/posts/10101309611650161?pnref=story

This was the original link


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## ester (8 July 2015)

I don't see any links on KEP's main or UK pages


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## ChwaraeTeg (8 July 2015)

I do not see your link Ester. It does not allow... Here is the link I referred to ... https://www.facebook.com/kepitaliahats?fref=ts

10 people like this.

Becky Blyton Hmmm, worrying http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php...
Pictures WARNING! - KEP riding hat safety - please open
After paying a substantial amount of money for my beloved KEP riding hat, I would have liked to have though my head was well protected. How wrong could I be!!! These pictures show what happened to my hat after my horse stumbled trotting on a grassy field, unseating me face first into the grass. As y&#8230;
HORSEANDHOUND.CO.UK
Like · Reply · 1 · 3 July at 18:31

Issy Green Helen Fletcher this is it!
Like · Reply · 20 hrs


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## ester (8 July 2015)

No you won't see my link because that was the original Facebook post that has been taken down by the author/Facebook

I had to like the page to see the comments on KEP's page - shouldn't think that will stay long.


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## ChwaraeTeg (8 July 2015)

ah- I see  Thanks


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## mtj (8 July 2015)

I would also like to know how the aged hat in this incident (discontinued model and EN standard, not the current PAS015 version) compares in construction to the current model.  Can we really compare the 2?  

There was a scandal some years ago regarding spot on wormer killing someone's cats.  When it was properly investigated it turned out that the medication was both out of date and had been stored on a sunny windowsill.....

We are regularly warned not to keep our helmets in cars.  Have to wonder if the storage of the op's hat prior to purchase may have contributed to this catastrophic failure.

On a more positive note, hopefully this has made many of us check the manufactured date on our helmets.  My made in 2010 skull cap was binned today (minus straps).


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## ester (8 July 2015)

I have made a specific enquiry on the relevance of the hats age, which would not really be the fault of either the OP or the manufacturer but the retailer's stock rotation.


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## Tiddlypom (8 July 2015)

mtj said:



			We are regularly warned not to keep our helmets in cars.  Have to wonder if the storage of the op's hat prior to purchase may have contributed to this catastrophic failure.
		
Click to expand...

If the hat has been allowed to get over hot at any time since manufacture, then the adhesives that glue the panels together could well have become less effective. It certainly makes one query how much less robust a hat with glued in ventilation panels is than a one piece hat like a jockey skull. Though other manufacturers' ventilated hats seem to to cope.


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## teapot (8 July 2015)

Brings in the question of whether retailers ever check their own stock, rotate it, and if they have any legal standing if they sell an item that is past its best?

I do appreciate that stocking hats must be a hard call between having multiples in stock 'just in case' or having a few and ordering them in when needed.


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## Casey76 (9 July 2015)

My paneled/vented hat "came apart" when I came off my young horse at Easter (it was a relatively easy fall onto the sand school, but I still hit my head hard enough to have a concussion with memory loss)  however it didn't come to pieces!













I would be seriously worried it my hat literally went to pieces - especially if they cost the earth, which KEP seem to!


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## ester (9 July 2015)

Fwiw I have received a reply to my more specific queries and have to say they are much better replying to emails than posting on a forum. 

Of interest to all would be that the helmet when sold would have had CE EN 1834 homologation and the SEI / ASTM. However the helmet has no different to the ones currently sold with the extra standards that have been added since then. 

The instructions for use state:

 '"The duration of the helmet depends on several degenerative factors, including changes in temperature, amount of exposure to direct sunlight, intensity of use. People should check their helmets for damages regularly. Cracks, detachments, warpings, peeling and discoloration show the state of deterioration of the helmet; in any case it is advisable to replace the helmet after five years because its protection power decreasing with the aging of the materials it is made of. The date of manufacture is inside the helmet." 
This is what our INSTRUCTIONS FOR USE AND MAINTENANCE contains. These instructions are included in the packaging of each helmet. If the helmet has been stored in the right way, its integrity could be compromised in the measure of 5 - 10%. '

I am assuming that the 5-10% would related to the after 5 years point, so I guess we aren't hitting breaking apart point.


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## DirectorFury (9 July 2015)

This thread has made its way onto Tumblr (a blogging site popular with teenagers and young adults, usually wealthy ones!) and has had lots of attention. One reply in particular caught my attention:

"I do and dont believe this claim. I have a KEP, a cheaper model but still $700 AUD and last week I was riding and I heard a noise. The noise ended up being the front section of the helmet banging. It had come loose. I contacted the company I purchased it through and they said this was common, if I send it to KEP they will glue it back on. Apparently it has something to do with heat getting to it. 
I havent used this helmet since November and its had no falls nor have I ever dropped it.
Im quite disappointed that it will only glued back on. Its not even very old.
I have had a Charles Owen h2000 for 6-7 years, it has only just started to fade, Iv never fallen off in it and nothing is wrong except it stinks inside. 
Loved my KEP but after this I will never get another one." [source]


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## ApolloStorm (9 July 2015)

Although I have never owned a KEP ( far too expensive) I do own a John whitaker hat of the vented/ panelled type. The day I bought the hat (£70) I came off my friends whizzy cob. I landed very heavily on my head, was concussed with a nose bleed. My hat however remained fully in 1 piece and would have definitely saved me from another impact. 
Just goes to show that spending £££ on a piece of safety equipment doesn't always mean you're safer!


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## mtj (9 July 2015)

DirectorFury said:



			This thread has made its way onto Tumblr (a blogging site popular with teenagers and young adults, usually wealthy ones!) and has had lots of attention. One reply in particular caught my attention:

"I do and don&#8217;t believe this claim. I have a KEP, a cheaper model but still $700 AUD and last week I was riding and I heard a noise. The noise ended up being the front section of the helmet banging. It had come loose. I contacted the company I purchased it through and they said this was common, if I send it to KEP they will glue it back on. Apparently it has something to do with heat getting to it. 
I haven&#8217;t used this helmet since November and it&#8217;s had no falls nor have I ever dropped it.
I&#8217;m quite disappointed that it will only &#8216;glued&#8217; back on. It&#8217;s not even very old.
I have had a Charles Owen h2000 for 6-7 years, it has only just started to fade, Iv never fallen off in it and nothing is wrong except it stinks inside. 
Loved my KEP but after this I will never get another one." [source]

Click to expand...

The Charles Owen may look fine, but foam degrades so ALL hats need to be replaced after 4 years or so.


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## mirage (11 July 2015)

I saw this on FB last week and was pretty horrified. I'm glad you are OK OP. We have to replace both our daughter's hats this year,due to PC requiring hats tested to newer /different standards,and will be going for Champion or Charles Owen. Even if I could afford the silly money KEP hats seem to be,I wouldn't risk it. Their lack of customer service or sense of responsibility is stunning,never mind a hat shattering on impact. My daughter had a bad fall off a broncing pony not long ago and he caught her head with his hoof as he came down,the hat had a slight scuff,I dread to think what would have happened had her hat disintegrated on impact.


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## skydy (13 July 2015)

conniegirl said:



			I have just received the following threat from kep
		
Click to expand...

I can't seem to quote the threat of litigation that KEP sent to you. 

I am stunned by KEP's behavior on this forum, toward the OP, yourself, and everyone else who is reading this thread , and by the disintegration of the safety hat. 

I've posted a link to this thread on the COTH forum. I hope that some good will come of this.


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## Twiglet (13 July 2015)

This is hilarious (not OP's fall....) - haven't read all the replies, but I don't know what is more laughable, KEP's hat production, or their horrendous PR!


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## DirectorFury (13 July 2015)

Further to my post about this thread being on Tumblr, this is not an isolated incident. I've been contacted on there by a further 4 people who have had the same experience as the OP and were told by KEP 1) no big deal, 2) this has never happened before. Hmm.


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## ester (13 July 2015)

Are you able to pass details on to the OP?


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## IREHORSEBAI (15 July 2015)

KEP Italia said:



			I wish to personally reply to Mrs. Andrea Smith and to all the people who are interested in knowing something more about *safety*. 

Im really sorry to see Mrs. Smiths  reaction against our helmets after her fall. I would like to explain to her that a such a breaking of a helmet during a fall can only be caused by *strong impacts* received at the moment of the crash, or by the *kicking or rolling of a horse on the helmet*. 
Looking at the pictures shown, I really consider that the helmet must have been smashed and destroyed by a strong pressure like the one produced by a horse, if we believe that she fell on the grass as she said.
A helmet cannot explode, it cannot be disintegrated that way by itself. 
A helmets break is important in case of hard impact because it absorbs the shock and avoids that the head receives it. 

KEP Italia helmets meet the standards of up to *five international safety certifications*. KEP Italia helmets were *the first in the world to be labeled with the brand new VG01 homologation* and we strongly supported the release of these new standards, which higher the level protection of all helmets certified only by the CE 1384-2011.
KEP Italia helmets did not need to undergo any kind of change to meet the new VG01 homologation and to successfully pass all the requested tests, because they already complied with the most severe international standards, such as the PAS015:2011 Kite Mark, ASTM F1163.04a, SEI, and IC certification. 
In order to be approved by any one of the five homologations which KEP Italia helmets bear, all helmets must undergo *severe testing*. The tests are set in order to make sure *a helmet is able to resists to all kind of strains.*
KEP Italia helmets are light, comfortable and ventilated: each detail and material we use is the result of *deep research* for the most advanced produce of the market and attention to details. Yet everything undergoes deep testing and there is no element of our helmet that is casually put together. Glues and foams and polystyrene and varnishes and coatings and linings and the chinstrap are thoroughly tested inside our company and inside testing labs. *Most of our tests are done in the UK *and the companies that release the homologations not only request that we supply big quantities of helmets they use for the testing inside their labs, but also regularly inspect the standard production inside our facilities to make sure that *all our production complies with their standards*. *Safety is a big investment to which we are committed loyally.*
We are ready to stand behind our helmets and to talk about how important it is to *wear helmets when riding*, or even when being around a horse.  Mrs. Andrea Smith was wearing a helmet when she fell, and we feel she should be happy that the helmet broke like that, because this is what helmets are manufactured for: to protect the rider. 
We cannot say that by wearing a helmet a rider is 100% safe, but we can state that good quality helmets contribute deeply into saving lives when riders fall and have head concussions. We receive testimonies by riders and parents of young riders on a weekly basis: *they thank KEP for the protection offered in falls and accidents*, many of which are really bad. We are pleased to post some of these witnesses of different *riders whose lives have been saved thank to Kep Italia helmets* (see next posts).

Thank you for your attention, 
*LELIA POLINI *
Kep Italia Managing Director
www.kepitalia.com

Click to expand...

Excuse me, however I believe you are falsifying the readers of this forum in regards to the claim that you are a 5 standard helmet manufacturer. As far as I am aware IC Mark EN1384 has now been abolished. Along with this, the SEI test to the ASTM standard. Also one last point is that the VG1 kitemark is essentially the CE VG1. 

So would this not mean you are tested to only 3 standards, as the fourth standard would be the SNELL standard which other superior helmet manufactures that actually do comply to the four helmet standards.

Maybe you should apologize to the forum readers for this "confusion" that you seem to have.


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## ester (15 July 2015)

As in the are counting certs (like the kitemark) as a safety level? I did wonder how we got to five without snell.


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## ycbm (15 July 2015)

Dupe of earlier post


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## 9tails (15 July 2015)

I bet KEP wishes they'd done the right thing in the first instance now.  How to ruin your business is one easy step.  An astounding thread on a par with Schwmae.


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## maccachic (15 July 2015)

I still would like to know how helmets meet those standards are x number submitted and how often is this re evevaluated.  Are random samples taken and is this done regularly?  If its just the fact of submitting a few helmets for testing initially and that's, that well its hardly reassuring - who ensures manufacturing standards don't change.


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## IREHORSEBAI (16 July 2015)

maccachic said:



			I still would like to know how helmets meet those standards are x number submitted and how often is this re evevaluated.  Are random samples taken and is this done regularly?  If its just the fact of submitting a few helmets for testing initially and that's, that well its hardly reassuring - who ensures manufacturing standards don't change.
		
Click to expand...

For certification X amount of helmets are required to release a batch of 1600 helmets, this is reevaluated yearly and per batch.

Only the snell standard does random sample testing, Snell buy 2% of the helmets of what the factory send onto the market.

The manufacturer buys serialised stickers, and the number from each of these stickers are sent into snell so they know how much the factory have. If there are any fails in that batch, that batch is then recalled.

KEP do not have the SNELL standard.


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## draftxfan (16 July 2015)

I keep thinking of this photo of Edgar Prado's skull cap: https://mobile.twitter.com/shealeparoux/status/557536530621661184


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## kamili (16 July 2015)

draftxfan said:



			I keep thinking of this photo of Edgar Prado's skull cap: https://mobile.twitter.com/shealeparoux/status/557536530621661184

Click to expand...

what would happen if that was a KEP hat? would it fall apart?


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## myISH (16 July 2015)

Wow. Just, wow. Here's a meme I made that you can post online to help spread the word. It shows a broken KEP hat compared to a broken Troxel which are about the cheapest you can get in the US. Feel free to share! https://imgflip.com/i/oai7z


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## Goldenstar (16 July 2015)

draftxfan said:



			I keep thinking of this photo of Edgar Prado's skull cap: https://mobile.twitter.com/shealeparoux/status/557536530621661184

Click to expand...

Holy cow , that's some photo.


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## Goldenstar (16 July 2015)

myISH said:



			Wow. Just, wow. Here's a meme I made that you can post online to help spread the word. It shows a broken KEP hat compared to a broken Troxel which are about the cheapest you can get in the US. Feel free to share! https://imgflip.com/i/oai7z

Click to expand...

Tbh the more I think about I am going to stick with my traditional type crash cap.
And forget these lighter vented type creations .


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## Vodkagirly (16 July 2015)

Not a lot to add except I would never purchase a Kep hat now.


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## maccachic (16 July 2015)

IREHORSEBAI said:



			For certification X amount of helmets are required to release a batch of 1600 helmets, this is reevaluated yearly and per batch.

Only the snell standard does random sample testing, Snell buy 2% of the helmets of what the factory send onto the market.

The manufacturer buys serialised stickers, and the number from each of these stickers are sent into snell so they know how much the factory have. If there are any fails in that batch, that batch is then recalled.

KEP do not have the SNELL standard.
		
Click to expand...


Thanks for that!


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## hairycob (17 July 2015)

Interesting pic of the Trowel.  I have one for hacking & came off the other day onto a hard stoney track ( new hat order). Couple of scratches on the Trowel.


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## milos (17 July 2015)

I had a gate house the vent slipped after 13 months they replaced it. The girl I got on the phone said they only warranty for a year. I explained that I didn't expect to pay £170 for a hat and it last 13 months especially as it hadn't been dropped nor had I fallen off. I appreciate she was giving me her standard company policy. She said to send back hat and she would fix the vent.  Which is fair enough as vents I would presume are glued on. In the end she replaced it with  a new hat.  So I was happy with outcome. She replied to my calls and emails promptly so I was happy with the outcome. So although they give  a years warranty gatehouse saw sense and replaced my hat without any hassle so good standard of after care from them.


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## Dizzle (17 July 2015)

I thought I had read it all... so KEP are suggesting that we play a game of 'head roulette' with a helmet that may or may not come apart on either the first or second impact.

I can't think of anyone that would take such a gamble with their brain and skull!


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## OldNag (17 July 2015)

This has completely put me off the vented-style hats. I will stick with jockey skulls from now on. (darned sight cheaper too). 

Shockingly bad customer service from KEP.


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## orionstar (17 July 2015)

I am stunned at what happened to your hat, and more than astonished at KEP's attempt at a response on this forum!


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## bounce (17 July 2015)

I certainly wouldn't ever consider buying a KEP after reading this thread. Fair play to the OP to bringing this to everyone's attention and taking the matter further with the company. 

I was interested to read someone else had an issue with the vent on a gatehouse slipping though as I have recently had the same problem in my hat that is less than 6 months old. Gatehouse did at least exchange it for a new one straight away but I do wonder if there is a design fault or weakness there. At least their customer service is a lot better than KEP.


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## DollyPentreath (18 July 2015)

KEP Italia said:



			FAACTS ABOUT MRS. ANDREA SMITH'S HELMET AND KEP ITALIA'S REACTION.

So, assuming Mrs. Smith is not liar, we suggest one of a few things: 
. that Mrs. Smith fell on a harder ground than she thinks, or that she fell in a more powerful way than she recalls;

. that Mrs. Smiths hat was not properly fastened (this is a very common situation unfortunately) and that she lost the helmet after she fell. In this case the horse might have stepped on the helmet in its effort to stand up after falling, or that it stood on the helmet in any other way;
Another, and worse, thought came into our mind: that someone might intentionally be mounting up this case with the precise purpose of damaging KEP Italias image. KEP Italia is a growing company and we know for sure that some of our competitors are reacting in a bad way to this, some of them even scaring off kids at shows by telling them stupid and false stories. 

*6. Conclusions.*
We are perfectly aware that the social media environment speeds up the travelling of information, and while we are going to take proper actions in order to stop the releasing of false information, we are committed into turning this into a unique opportunity to talk about safety. We invite all of you who have shared posts regarding Mrs. Smith broken helmet, to also share our response in order to let riders have all the data they need to build their own opinion. 

We are also informing the persons sharing false information that they should stop defaming our company and that they will have to assume responsibility for the consequences of what they say.

Thank you for reading.
		
Click to expand...

Astounding reaction KEP. What a complete PR boob posting on this forum was. Thank god this poor woman was ok and your terrible customer service has been publicly highlighted. 

Looks like the rest of the equestrian world has noticed too.. I have friends in Australia and the U.S. sharing this. http://the900facebookpony.com/2015/07/14/kep-italia-buyer-beware/


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## Clannad48 (18 July 2015)

I've just read this thread all the way through and am absolutely astounded.  I recently purchased a new hat for my daughter and am really glad that I did not purchase one of these but stuck to an old favourite brand.  Glad to hear you are relatively ok OP.  KEP you should be ashamed of yourselves.


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## Dunlin (18 July 2015)

Absolutely shocked to see the photo's and even more astounded by KEP's response on this forum. Certainly done themselves no favours there and rather than putting the blame on the poor OP I think they need to take a good long look in the mirror because I have to say, rather than the accident and photo's of the hat it's actually their response which has made me feel the most sick!

If the horse had stepped on the hat there would be significant proof of that and also a large number of small pieces, even a Shetland pony weighs a good 1/4 of a ton! You cannot hide what the photographs show and why on earth would someone have facial injuries if they were "on purpose" trying to damage KEP's reputation. Ludicrous!

I've seen a rider get rolled over on a road, they were wearing a very old Beagler/Patey style hat without a strap, the horse was a good 17hh IDxTB, how she got up straight afterwards was beyond me and how the hospital stated only a minor concussion with broken nose was also a shock! The hat was intact with only scuff marks and ripped velvet and naturally the polystyrene inner was crushed so thin it was almost non-existent. That was an impact with a road (from trot) followed by a very big horse rolling all the way over her head, you would almost expect a disintegrated hat, yet it wasn't.

Having seen some pretty nasty broken noses and bad whiplash from wearing peaked hats I'll only wear a jockey skull, needless to say I'd rather buy 6 of my Champion Jockey hats for the price of a KEP!


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## rachk89 (18 July 2015)

No shelf life to hats that I am aware of. I had my last hat for 9 ish years before replacing it. Only replaced it after I fell off and managed to hit my head off the floor. It did absolutely no damage to the hat as it shouldn't but it gave me a headache from the impact so I decided to get a new one. Never know what internal damage was done.

That was with an old style helmet with large air flow gaps in it too so in theory should have been less tough than that kep but clearly wasn't.


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## Dizzle (22 July 2015)

Interestingly I had a look inside my Gatehouse Air Rider vented hat at the weekend and there is a warning along the lines of 'this helmet may not protect against death or injury from reasonably predicatable accidents' or similar words to that effect. I only use it for happy hacking in the summer but still :-/ may just sweat in my jockey skull from now on!


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## Tiddlypom (22 July 2015)

Dizzle said:



			Interestingly I had a look inside my Gatehouse Air Rider vented hat at the weekend and there is a warning along the lines of 'this helmet may not protect against death or injury from reasonably predicatable accidents' or similar words to that effect.
		
Click to expand...

If it's any consolation, my new Gatehouse HS1 skull says the same ie 'Some reasonably foreseeable impacts may exceed this helmet's capability to protect against severe injury or death'. Probably a standard disclaimer, but not a very cheerful one.

However, it makes sense that a skull helmet is going to have fewer weak points than a vented helmet, plus it hasn't got a fixed peak. My HS1, (this is my second one), is cool and comfortable to wear, albeit not very flattering.


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## DressageCob (22 July 2015)

It is indeed a standard disclaimer. 

For instance, it is reasonably foreseeable that while out hacking you get hit by a speeding vehicle (particularly a large vehicle) and take the impact to your head. No helmet could protect against that


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## Palindrome (23 July 2015)

Tiddlypom said:



			However, it makes sense that a skull helmet is going to have fewer weak points than a vented helmet, plus it hasn't got a fixed peak. My HS1, (this is my second one), is cool and comfortable to wear, albeit not very flattering.
		
Click to expand...

My Gatehouse Pegasus is vented and does not have a fixed peak. I was pleasantly surprised after falling off face first (went out the side door as horse bucked jumping a small log) to see the peak had popped out and was able to rotate around the helmet. All of the helmet was intact and I just pulled the peak back in place. I think that's a very nice feature.
Reading the OP's story, I will never buy a KEP and probably going to go for a skull cap for next helmet as they do seem to offer the best protection.


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## soulfull (23 July 2015)

They have a win a hat competition in FB.   I asked if its the same model as this one. 
They have gone in about it is meant to break up on slow impact.  When I asked about secondary knock they said horses rarely tread on a rider at slow speed,  and the hat would react differently in a high speed accident

They have links to something about head injuries. 

I really would like to know if any other manufacturers agree with their statement


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## j1ffy (23 July 2015)

soulfull said:



			They have a win a hat competition in FB.   I asked if its the same model as this one. 
They have gone in about it is meant to break up on slow impact.  When I asked about secondary knock they said horses rarely tread on a rider at slow speed,  and the hat would react differently in a high speed accident

They have links to something about head injuries. 

I really would like to know if any other manufacturers agree with their statement
		
Click to expand...

Well that sounds like a load of bull to me! How can something fall apart in a slow impact, but stay together at high impact? And what if a rider is being dragged? It's quite conceivable that a rider (I'm thinking of a fall I saw at a RS when I was young - a novice child) falls at a slow pace, gets dragged, horse panics... 

I think they need to go back to their PR team AND their engineering team.


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## ester (23 July 2015)

clutching at straws...


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## kamili (23 July 2015)

I wonder how the riders featured on their FB page would feel if they were aware of their hats being possibly designed to break up on impact..
 I would hate to see someone seriously injured on the international stage after wearing a KEP hat that disintegrated... same goes for anyone who is riding at home too international rider or not.


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## 9tails (23 July 2015)

No riding hat should have crumple zones.  I don't believe that this company has ever had anything to do with horses and just made a fashionable hat.  I can't get the crunch of the hat in their video out of my mind.


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## teapot (23 July 2015)

Was flicking through the programme from Barbury the other day and one of the tradestands listed was KEP. Had I paid more attention, I'd have gone and asked awkward questions...


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## maccachic (24 July 2015)

This was posted on another forum today:  http://horsetalk.co.nz/2015/07/23/r...met-testing-stanford-engineers/#axzz3glLnJitA


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## kamili (24 July 2015)

this video is really interesting too, how a charles owen helmet is made

http://horsetalk.co.nz/2015/05/26/video-how-riding-helmet-made/#axzz3gmnmBirv


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## Clannad48 (24 July 2015)

kamili said:



			this video is really interesting too, how a charles owen helmet is made

http://horsetalk.co.nz/2015/05/26/video-how-riding-helmet-made/#axzz3gmnmBirv

Click to expand...

Interesting indeed - especially given this quote from this article:

Do helmets have expiry dates?
It is not printed on like a milk carton but YES helmets expire! The materials inside them degrade and replacement is recommended every 4 &#8211; 5 years or after an impact. This includes dropping it from a shelf, so be sure to store and handle helmets carefully.


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## blackhor2e (27 July 2015)

All I can say to this is Wow! Such an awful thing to happen, only compounded by the fact that KEP as the manufacturer should show more concern (like any other company would) and take action to prevent this happening again. This is not acceptable standards for a riding helmet, and I for one will never purchase a KEP after reading this and their terrible PR response. I am sharing this with EVERYONE I know as this could of been a lot worse. I am glad you are ok OP, and shame on KEP for their terrible, inappropriate attack on your informative post.


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## Mike007 (27 July 2015)

I saw  one of these hats for the first time on saturday, As an aircraft engineer, the failure and fractures of the op,s hat are exactly what I would expect . The hat has far too many angles  for stresses to concentrate. To be honest ,I dont think much of most other makes either. I feel that we, the users ,are at the mercy of the hat vendors . They decide how the hat is tested ,to suit themselves . For the general public the modern hat may be ok ,but it falls a long way short of what is needed in a competition hat where the  most likely serious injury is to smash down onto your head and damage your neck. Forget about that ridiculous penetration test. What we need is a hat that can absorb the energy of  a head on collision with planet earth. We used to have hats that were pretty good in this respect ,but cost a lot to make ,so the tests and the hats were changed.


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## Cragrat (28 July 2015)

Clannad48 said:



			Interesting indeed - especially given this quote from this article:

Do helmets have expiry dates?
It is not printed on like a milk carton but YES helmets expire! The materials inside them degrade and replacement is recommended every 4  5 years or after an impact. This includes dropping it from a shelf, so be sure to store and handle helmets carefully.
		
Click to expand...

My Charles Owen 4star - bought about 2 months ago- had a label which said that modern helmets do NOT degrade in storage/sat on a shelf. It did of course say that it should be replaced after any impact.


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## MozartK (28 July 2015)

Sorry for my long absence but only because I didn't really have any progress to report. Finally I have managed to speak with the relevant body at BSI and they have a full account of the accident and damage sustained to the hat. They are aware of my concerns regarding the performance of my hat and will address this with respect to the impact testing in the PAS105 and the design of the helmet. Unfortunately I will not be given any feedback as this is confidential. If there are any issues, then the manufacturer either addresses these or the hat is excluded from the British kite mark.

I now intend to take up the issue of hat age with BETA and BHS, with respect to the manufacturing date and visibility of this.

Everyone else I contacted has basically stuck their head in the sand, eg. BE. 

However, H&H are interested and would like to speak with me but this person has been on holiday.

Interestingly, while I was doing some research online I found a document from the European Commission which states that the side stability of light-weighted vented helmets is lower than that of traditional heavier helmets. Although each hat, whether light weight or heavier weight, has passed the side stability test, should we not be aware that we are trading off safety versus comfort when we buy a lighter weight hat? Should hats not have a safety rating rather than just a simple pass or fail? The actual performance data for each test for each hat type is confidential, hence we have no idea whether the hat we buy has passed each test easily or whether it has just scraped through any of the tests. Hopefully these are some of the issues H&H may be interested in.


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## ester (28 July 2015)

Thanks for coming back! Interesting to hear how you have got on, even though in some cases that is not very far!


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## MozartK (28 July 2015)

ester said:



			Thanks for coming back! Interesting to hear how you have got on, even though in some cases that is not very far!
		
Click to expand...

Yes, very frustrating but I do keep chipping away at it. Everyone is pointing me towards Trading Standards but that is a dead end. I think there are deeper issues here that horse riders need to be made aware of, for example the potential compromise in safety we could be making when we buy the lighter weight vented hats. Mike007 hits the nail on the head when he says that lighter weight, high impact strength materials are available as technologies of man made materials increase but they are expensive. However, when I paid for an expensive hat, this is what I thought I was getting! I realised it was lighter weight and had 'vents' but reassured myself that the hat would be made of higher tech materials.....

H&H are apparently going to run a riding hat feature some time soon, maybe they will be interested in the can of worms I seem to have opened!


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## maccachic (29 July 2015)

After reading your update I've recently learned about baby stuff since no. 1 due soon.  Child safety seats in NZ at least have a lifespan and all have dates printed on them between 6-10 years I think.  They are made of similar materials.


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## Gisellemybelle (22 August 2015)

MozartK said:



			After paying a substantial amount of money for my beloved KEP riding hat, I would have liked to have though my head was well protected. How wrong could I be!!!

These pictures show what happened to my hat after my horse stumbled trotting on a grassy field, unseating me face first into the grass. As you can see the panelled design of the hat cause the hat to fall apart on impact. In fact the hat was no longer on my head after the fall but was hanging in pieces around my neck, held together by the harness!

The picture of my face shows bruising and grazing to my forehead, exactly where the hat should have protected. I count myself as extremely lucky to only have facial bruising and not a fractured skull and brain injury. Others may not be as lucky!

These hats have passed the relevant safety tests, hence I was confident my head was well protected. I will be contacting KEP, BHS and BETA regarding my accident and the inadequate performance of this hat. Hopefully they will take action as these hats are so common in dressage and show jumping. I dread to think what the outcome could have been if I had been going faster or jumping and landed in the same way!

http://s880.photobucket.com/user/MozartK/media/Hat 2.jpg.html

http://s880.photobucket.com/user/MozartK/media/Hat 6.jpg.html?sort=3&o=1

http://s880.photobucket.com/user/MozartK/media/Hat 4.jpg.html?sort=3&o=2

http://s880.photobucket.com/user/MozartK/media/Hat 2.jpg.html?sort=3&o=3

http://s880.photobucket.com/user/MozartK/media/Hat face 1.jpg.html?sort=3&o=4

Click to expand...

Glad you were okay!  What I don't understand is the manufacture's attitude.   Any brand of helmet can fail, unfortunately, but to have one shatter like that is not acceptible.  KEP should have just accepted one of their helmets failed and to make sure this does not happen in the future.  Here in the US, our standard is the customer is always right unless there is proof of wrong doing.   To accuse someone of being a liar is not okay.   They should have just been very relieved you were okay, offered a refund and, if it was me, offered a free replacement helmet.  Not that you would trust them again.  They also should not have made you go back to the dealer, they are the company and should make exceptions to some things, especially one of this magnitued.   I am so glad my daughter chose another brand when she decided to spend the big dollars on helmets.


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## npage123 (29 August 2015)

OP, thank you very much for bringing this under as many people as possible's attention!! You're doing some fantastic work - keep it up!


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## Tnavas (29 August 2015)

OMG that is horrendous, I've never seen a helmet fall apart like that. The velvet hat I was wearing when I had a somersault fall (horse), he trod on my head as he got up and took out a hoof shape, and that was one of the very old hats with a nylon outer and foam inner, 60's style.

I have a hard time convincing parents to replace their kids helmets after a fall as they can't see any damage.


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## MozartK (20 October 2015)

Just another update regarding hat gate. Out of the blue, I recently received a report regarding my accident and performance of my hat, which was carried out by a well known professional within the equine hat safety field. The report was courtesy of The Mark Davies Injured Rider Fund, for which I thank them very much. The report generated questions which require answers from the manufacturer, to help understand whether the hat is deliberately designed to break apart during a fall. These have been sent to the manufacturer (along with the full report) via their UK import agent. I await their reply.

With the credibility of the author of the report and the report itself, I now seem to be making some headway with BE. I have focussed more on BE lately due to the launch of the new KEP XC helmet, which looks very similar to the Chromo only without the peak, which makes it BE legal for XC!

One aspect of the report which I found really interesting was the detail regarding the impact test of the PAS015 test standard. It is unclear whether the area my hat was impacted, is within the actual 'test zone' for the impact test. I have asked for confirmation of this from BSI but haven't had a clear answer as yet. If not, then potentially this helmet would never fail an impact test......I continue to chip away!

Hopefully, with the help of BE I will make some headway with BSI and have them take the issue more seriously. I continue to be amazed by the lack of interest of safety related regulatory bodies within the equine industry. In the chemical industry, even the smallest accident is taken seriously and is reported and investigated. It is these smaller non-serious accidents called 'learning events' that can prevent the bigger more serious accidents from occurring. As I just pointed out to BE, investigating a learning event prevents serious injury or death.......investigating an accident, the serious injury or death has already occurred!


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## Meowy Catkin (20 October 2015)

Thanks for updating us. I really hope that you get somewhere. It's awful that you are needing to push as much as you are though.


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## ester (20 October 2015)

Well done you, and thank you for your perseverence. I agree with what you say with regards to investigation in a lot of other industries - much better to be proactive than reactive after a death!


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## Mince Pie (20 October 2015)

I didn't see this first time round. I am completely appalled by both the state of your hat, and the response from KEP! I hope you get somewhere with this and will share on a couple of my Facebook groups.


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## mypegasus (20 October 2015)

Thanks for the update.

Will keep watching this space for further updates.


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## maccachic (20 October 2015)

Sounds like there may be systematic failings in the certification systems.  Good on you for pressing ahead with this and hopefully it ends in a much safer system for all.


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## OldNag (21 October 2015)

Keep going OP... It sounds like you are really getting somewhere with this. We all expect a degree of protection by using hats which have passed stringent  testing... looks like those tests are not as rigorous  as we think they are.


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## cobwithattitude (21 October 2015)

shocking - really shocking.  I hope The Mark Davies research is acted upon swiftly by BE and EVERYONE ELSE INVOLVED!


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## unicornystar (21 October 2015)

KEP absolutely appalling customer service, poor product, you simply DONT accuse your customers of lying! LOL, stunned, will never recommend KEP ever based purely on customer service!!!

PRO Tector hat for me everytime ...when I can afford one


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## Red-1 (21 October 2015)

Well done OP for taking this so far. Also well done Mark Davies Injured Rider Fund, they took a hat of mine when we were rear ended by a car, and my horse and I were bounced down the road. I am glad they are there to help keep the sport as safe as possible.


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## Fiona (21 October 2015)

Delighted to hear you are getting somewhere OP....

Well done for your perseverance.

If you have saved just one person on here from buying one of these hats then you've done a great job...

Fiona


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## Bradsmum (20 December 2015)

Well done for persevering.  Just out of interest, anyone noticed how many of these hats are being worn at Olympia this week?  Rather them than me, especially in a puissance!


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## MungoMadness (20 December 2015)

Thanks for the update, I find this all very interesting. I fear there are similar issues with body protectors too.


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## MungoMadness (20 December 2015)

MungoMadness said:



			Thanks for the update, I find this all very interesting. I fear there are similar issues with body protectors too.
		
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In terms of testing and standards I mean, not them falling apart!


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## Mike007 (20 December 2015)

Please keep shakeing the tree! Our hats are a disgrace ,they are designed to pass a set  of tests designed by the manufacturers. If I had been wearing an old crash hat from the 70 s I doubt whether I would now have a severed phrenic nerve (works half your diaphragm ,and hence one of your lungs). The old hats were designed to absorb the energy of impact , modern hats are not.


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## ycbm (20 December 2015)

Mike007 said:



			Please keep shakeing the tree! Our hats are a disgrace ,they are designed to pass a set  of tests designed by the manufacturers. If I had been wearing an old crash hat from the 70 s I doubt whether I would now have a severed phrenic nerve (works half your diaphragm ,and hence one of your lungs). The old hats were designed to absorb the energy of impact , modern hats are not.
		
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You are joking aren't you?

In the 1970s most of us were wearing a bit of fibreglass lined with a bit of cork.

I still have one. It wouldn't protect a sparrow.


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## Mike007 (20 December 2015)

Not joking at all . The typical hat in 1976 had a nylon cradle within the hat which would have to stretch about 1/3 of an inch before the head touched the (cork lined) glass fibre shell. Modern helmets have a polystyrene lining which barely compresses at all on impact . Now this may not sound much but the difference between being brought to a stop over 1/3 of an inch ,to being brought to a stop almost instantaneously ,is vast. Incidentally , when those hats were designed , a great deal of thought was given . Particularly to the size of the hat. There was a trade off of penetration protection against whiplash. Now whiplash is hard to measure but penetration is easy so modern hats make much of their ability to protect against it. The biggest problem of the old hats was the cost , £65 in those days ,and you had to know how to use it and fit it. I knew that these old hats were on the way out as non racing folk started to use them. Gradually the design changed. few people realised that you didnt just hook the hook on. You were supposed to undo the press stud on the other half first ,and on refastening it ,the chinstrap (Split web with soft leather) was pulled VERY tight . If you are competing and likely to hit the ground fast ,the modern hat is as much use as a chocolate teaspoon!


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## ycbm (20 December 2015)

Mike you are talking about jockey helmets I think, which average rider did not wear in the seventies. . The typical rider's hat in the seventies had a satin lining or some webbing straps fastened in the top with a bit of shoelace/string, with a two point fastening which was often a piece of elastic. I also think you are understating the ability of specialised polystyrene to compress on impact. Today's hats are far more effective than the old hat I have in the cupboard. You may as well compare old pith helmets with today's motorcycle helmets.

I think people are also forgetting that although the standard appears to be too heavily influenced by the manufacturers, it's not actually in the hat manufacturers interests to have someone die wearing one of their hats. It's terrible PR. So to suggest they they are deliberately manufacturing hats which are less safe than they need to be is, apart from KEP clearly, I think going one step too far. And probably why no-one else makes a helmet of several bits glued together, afaik.


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## Mike007 (20 December 2015)

Yes I am talking about jockey crash hats on which the modern hat was derived .  Its not just myself that slates the ability of polystyrene to compress . I had a very interesting chat to a hat designer from Patey, who really went to town on the subject. I hadnt even expressed a viewpoint. His view was that essentialy the modern hat might be of advantage if one fell off a slow moving cob onto the edge of a kirbstone. Anything else ,forget it.Edited to add that if you think there is anything specialised about the polystyrene then you also believe the moon is made of green cheese!


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## ycbm (20 December 2015)

Patey?

The only people who sell a hat with no harness???  That one the last person who fell off hunting and died from a kick to the head  was wearing?

Not the first people I'd think about asking about hat safety.


PS by specialised I only mean chosen density for purpose. It's not the same as the polystyrene my amazon parcels come packed in.


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## Mike007 (20 December 2015)

Yes we covered that in our conversation . Some people still demand those hats . The guy I talked to wanted ALL hats to be safer and he was most definately an expert. The viewpoint he expressed ,as I understood it ,was that he could design a much safer competition hat but it could never be approved because certain hat manufacturers had prettywell set the way hats were to be tested ,regardless of the reality of their usage. So whatever he came out with , it would not be aproved.


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## conniegirl (21 December 2015)

Mike007 said:



			Edited to add that if you think there is anything specialised about the polystyrene then you also believe the moon is made of green cheese!
		
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Actually I think it is you who lacks the knowledge! I work with foams and gels for impact protection on a daily basis as part of my job and I can tell you that foam technology and anti impact technology have come on so much and what may look like bog standard polystyrene to you could be anything. I know of several foams that are less than 3 mm thick that can stop eggs breaking when dropped from 6ft but to look at they look like bog standard EVA foam.

Your previous statements also show you have absolutely no understanding of the mechanics of impact protection and nor does whomever you talked to at Patey.


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## kamili (6 July 2016)

We are a year on, is there any update to this?


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## Tnavas (6 July 2016)

ycbm said:



			You are joking aren't you?

In the 1970s most of us were wearing a bit of fibreglass lined with a bit of cork.

I still have one. It wouldn't protect a sparrow.
		
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Interestingly though - I had a dreadful fall in the early 70's, horse somersaulted over a big spread, rolled over me and stood on my head as he got up. I had a Harry Hall Velvet helmet, a fibreglass shell with foam lining, no straps at all, but the helmet fitted me like a glove and stayed on despite the impact. I had a perfect hoof shape smashed out of the front of the helmet - I had a mild concussion as did the horse!

I cannot find a helmet these days that fits me well - they are either too long, too wide or not deep enough - my current one tips over my eyes.

Helmets are hard to fit now because they don't make the variations in sizes like they used to.

I still have my last showing hat - lives in the cupboard, fits like a dream but I can no longer use it as it is no longer approved!


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## View (6 July 2016)

I have mentioned this one before on other threads, but worth another mention I feel because we only have one brain.

In August last year, I had the most innocuous of soft landings out the front door as the horse stumbled on landing, and I landed face first into the school surface.  I had a very slight scratch on my nose, the silk didn't even come off my hat and I got up far more concerned about the horse.

As I knew that the hat wouldn't be approved after the 1st Jan 2016 anyway, I went and bought my new hat a couple of months earlier than planned and sent the old hat back to Champion.  I was amazed when I read the report which showed just how much deformation there was and that my hat had obviously hit the ground and done its job.

Please everyone, don't take chances - replace your hat when it hits the ground.


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## Fiona (6 July 2016)

View said:



			I have mentioned this one before on other threads, but worth another mention I feel because we only have one brain.

In August last year, I had the most innocuous of soft landings out the front door as the horse stumbled on landing, and I landed face first into the school surface.  I had a very slight scratch on my nose, the silk didn't even come off my hat and I got up far more concerned about the horse.

As I knew that the hat wouldn't be approved after the 1st Jan 2016 anyway, I went and bought my new hat a couple of months earlier than planned and sent the old hat back to Champion.  I was amazed when I read the report which showed just how much deformation there was and that my hat had obviously hit the ground and done its job.

Please everyone, don't take chances - replace your hat when it hits the ground.
		
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That's quite scary  

I know most of us would replace  if we had a fall jumping,  galloping or on the road, but maybe not with a fall such as you describe. ....

Fiona


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## View (6 July 2016)

Fiona said:



			That's quite scary  

I know most of us would replace  if we had a fall jumping,  galloping or on the road, but maybe not with a fall such as you describe. ....

Fiona
		
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Well quite - which is why I keep banging on about this one because it felt such a soft fall.


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## Roasted Chestnuts (6 July 2016)

I have a hat that I got for my 16th birthday, a Charles Owen kids own velvet. Massive hat, I still use it as *touchwood* I haven't come off and it's hit the ground. I'm 33 btw.

Compared to my Vent air it's twice the helmet, I also have a more modern skull that I bought for going BE so was up to standard, and I have to say it felt a lot flimsier than the previous two.

OP this is a horrendous saga reading through it all. It's disgraceful how these companies shrug off these incidents, this is people's lives they are making products to protect, not a tshirt or a pair of jeans. Had I ever entertained a notion for one of these hats I certainly wouldn't be parting with my hard earned cash after seeing these pictures and reading this thread. Honestly very very shocking.


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## kate2323 (6 July 2016)

my horse knocked me into a wall - luckily was wearing a hat - my Kep and when I came to it was in 3 pieces - literally it was glued together...it prob saved my head but a crash helmet would NOT have disintegrated, I will NEVER buy KEP again....


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## alainax (6 July 2016)

Black Beastie said:



			I have a hat that I got for my 16th birthday, a Charles Owen kids own velvet. Massive hat, I still use it as *touchwood* I haven't come off and it's hit the ground. I'm 33 btw.

Compared to my Vent air it's twice the helmet
		
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Don't they deteriorate over time too?


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## teapot (6 July 2016)

alainax said:



			Don't they deteriorate over time too?
		
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Yup they do. Every hat deteriorates. 

Wonder if the OP ever got any further with this?


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## Tnavas (7 July 2016)

Black Beastie said:



			I have a hat that I got for my 16th birthday, a Charles Owen kids own velvet. Massive hat, I still use it as *touchwood* I haven't come off and it's hit the ground. I'm 33 btw.
.
		
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alainax said:



			Don't they deteriorate over time too?
		
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Not sure that the old type do as they weren't made of plastic and covered in a dark dense material would not have been exposed to the suns rays.

Modern helmets do break down and have a life of around 5 yrs so long as they are stored in a cool dark environment.


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## MozartK (3 November 2016)

Sorry for the absence, I don't come on here often but do tend to look every now and again. In a nut shell I got absolutely nowhere. Whichever way I turned I hit a brick wall......the words 'sticking heads in sand' springs to mind, regarding BE, BHS etc.

I did think I was getting somewhere with the MDIRF. Their hat safety expert wrote a report on my accident and subsequent damage to my hat, which raised some questions regarding the performance of the hat, which I was asked to send to the manufacturer. The questions were sent and answered (absolutely laughable answers as you can imagine.....they are still suggesting I am fabricating). I returned the answers to the MDIRF, who I then thought would send them back to their expert but they then said they no longer wanted to be part of this.......

If anyone wants further info regarding report/questions/answers, feel free to PM me. Obviously can't post on here as BB will be watching and will threaten me with court action.....again!

I still like to resurrect this post from time to time, even if just one more person sees my broken hat, then at least they are making an informed decision when buying and wearing one!


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## Girlracer (3 November 2016)

That is dreadful! Stick to my trusty Gatehouse I think!


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## teapot (3 November 2016)

MozartK said:



			Sorry for the absence, I don't come on here often but do tend to look every now and again. In a nut shell I got absolutely nowhere. Whichever way I turned I hit a brick wall......the words 'sticking heads in sand' springs to mind, regarding BE, BHS etc.

I did think I was getting somewhere with the MDIRF. Their hat safety expert wrote a report on my accident and subsequent damage to my hat, which raised some questions regarding the performance of the hat, which I was asked to send to the manufacturer. The questions were sent and answered (absolutely laughable answers as you can imagine.....they are still suggesting I am fabricating). I returned the answers to the MDIRF, who I then thought would send them back to their expert but they then said they no longer wanted to be part of this.......

If anyone wants further info regarding report/questions/answers, feel free to PM me. Obviously can't post on here as BB will be watching and will threaten me with court action.....again!

I still like to resurrect this post from time to time, even if just one more person sees my broken hat, then at least they are making an informed decision when buying and wearing one!
		
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That's ridiculous.  

Here's a random thought for you - have you thought about contacting any pro riders who are sponsored by KEP and see if you can join forces somehow? I know Andrew Hoy is sponsored by them. He does a lot with BE and I'm sure would be fairly pro pushing any safety aspects. Sometimes you need someone else in a high place to get anywhere these days.


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## Notimetoride (3 November 2016)

This is so interesting and shocking.  Only 3 days ago i was in my local tack shop hat shopping, and whilst waiting for the assistant to get my size, I was fiddling with one of these hats.   I was surprised at the price and what appeared to be fairly flimsy construction.  I hope something drastic is done to stop this happening again.


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## jemstar (4 November 2016)

Totally shocked. I too thought paying a premium price bought you a premium quality hat. I was thinking of saving to get a KEP at some point as they look awesome and meet the safety standards, but I won't be after reading this. Safety over fashion for me. Thanks for sharing, so glad you're ok OP.


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## fairyclare (6 November 2016)

It was this thread ALONE that made me get PROtector hats and give KEP a very wide berth! 
Whilst I think it is disgusting that no one is interested in this, you have done a good job of informing people on here (and I think I saw the pictures on Facebook sometime ago) 
I know I have told people about your story and suggested they avoid KEP.


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## dressage_diva (6 November 2016)

This thread has made me too avoid KEP hats (I was another who previously loved the look of them and was keen to get one). Will be sticking with my UVEX hat!


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## ConsRFab (10 January 2017)

Wow, so shocked by this thread should definitely be bumped up every few months.


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## AFB (20 June 2017)

Gobsmacked at this and the attitudes of relevant organisations towards it!


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## Durhamchance (20 June 2017)

Wow, I didn't see this thread when it was originally posted, and having read all thirty pages I'm totally shocked by the responses by KEP. Absolutely disgusting, I'll be sticking with Charles and Owen.
Glad you were ok OP


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## BlairandAzria (29 June 2017)

I've just found and read all of this, and all I can say is what awful response from Kep. Based on their response alone I would be put off buying one. OP I am glad you are ok, and sorry that you didn't get far in your investigations. 

There is a thread on Facebook currently with a vid of a horrendous fall (horse gets its foot stuck in its martingale) and worryingly there are loads of people and parents saying that they would get one to protect their children. ( they are still saying that they have 5 safety standards - but not SNELL, so I'm unsure of the 5?)


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## ester (29 June 2017)

They put up pics recently where the front had come off again in a thank goodness it was the hat not her head vibe, I think I even responded saying good job it didn't stand on her twice.. reminded me very much of this thread

yup KEP italia main facebook page, how is that a good thing?? I really can't imagine my HS1 doing that, or even my old out of spec air rider! 






https://www.facebook.com/KepItalia/


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## Tiddlypom (29 June 2017)

And another from the Kep Italia UK page from earlier this year. 








How do Kep keep on fooling people into thinking that their products are fit for purpose?


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## ester (29 June 2017)

Its scary really isn't it. Horses have four legs, what are the chances of another one hitting you.


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## Meowy Catkin (29 June 2017)

I'm astounded that people actually believe that these are safe hats. They fall apart FGS! As Ester says, what happens if you get two blows to the head during the same accident?


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## cobsarefab (29 June 2017)

Having hit my head three times before ground impact in a fall where I was bucked off  a 15.3hh horse I'm very glad I was wearing a Charles Owen if I'd worn a kep I'd definitely be dead.


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## ycbm (30 June 2017)

I think we should bump this thread on a regular basis for all new members to see. But maybe we should also be campaigning for the tests for riding hats to include multiple impact? 

The people who buy these hats after seeing what can happen to it in a fall are the ones who most need what brains they've got protected!


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## Amye (30 June 2017)

ycbm said:



			I think we should bump this thread on a regular basis for all new members to see. But maybe we should also be campaigning for the tests for riding hats to include multiple impact?
		
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Definitely agree we should be bumping this every so often! I remember reading it ages ago and it really shocked me - I'd never buy one of these hats.. but then I'd forgotten the make  until it was bumped recently.

Has anyone seen this video doing the rounds on FB as well? 

[video]https://www.facebook.com/canterburyequestriannz/videos/1476102549078541/[/video]


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## I.M.N. (30 June 2017)

I can't believe they're using the fact they fall apart on impact as a selling point!

I came off at the end of last year, ingeniously managed to fall under my bolting horse (turns out KS) got kicked in the head, knocked uncontious, concussion, cracked skull, chipped spine from where my head got kicked so hard the muscles pulled a couple spinious processes off and am left with slight hearing loss in my right ear and my Charles Owen barely had a scratch on it. Not to mention the fact the paramedics were impressed how coherent I was all things considered and I was out of hospital in 3 days, which is how long they keep you in for concussion checks. Lord knows what would have happened to me if I'd been wearing one of these poor excuses of a hat.


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## MagicMelon (30 June 2017)

I saw something on Facebook a few days ago about KEP's with some equestrian place showing a video of a girl having a rotational show jumping and swearing her KEP saved her life. They basically ended up slagging off other makes saying KEP's had the absolute highest safety tests.  Im pretty certain they sold the hats hence pushing them, either way they were basically scaring people on there into buying one.  Ridiculous IMO. I'll stick with my Charles Owen's thanks.


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## Amye (30 June 2017)

MagicMelon said:



			I saw something on Facebook a few days ago about KEP's with some equestrian place showing a video of a girl having a rotational show jumping and swearing her KEP saved her life. They basically ended up slagging off other makes saying KEP's had the absolute highest safety tests.  Im pretty certain they sold the hats hence pushing them, either way they were basically scaring people on there into buying one.  Ridiculous IMO. I'll stick with my Charles Owen's thanks.
		
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Yes that's the link I've just posted on the other page! They were saying how they are the only hats that also do a side crush test or something? And that made them the safest.


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## Meowy Catkin (30 June 2017)

RE the fall involving the KEP hat.



			If it had been another helmet, another brand, I would probably have died.
		
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I don't see where the evidence for this is?


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## albeg (30 June 2017)

MagicMelon said:



			I saw something on Facebook a few days ago about KEP's with some equestrian place showing a video of a girl having a rotational show jumping and swearing her KEP saved her life. They basically ended up slagging off other makes saying KEP's had the absolute highest safety tests.  Im pretty certain they sold the hats hence pushing them, either way they were basically scaring people on there into buying one.  Ridiculous IMO. I'll stick with my Charles Owen's thanks.
		
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It'd be interesting to see a comparison of the results of tests carried out on helmets. 

They keep mentioning on that post that KEP have 5 safety standards, but I haven't been able to find a post where they've listed them.


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## Meowy Catkin (30 June 2017)

Here you go. 







ETA link where I found the info. https://www.hufglocken.com/collections/kep-italia/products/kep-italia-sparkling-blue


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## albeg (30 June 2017)

Faracat said:



			Here you go. 

ETA link where I found the info. https://www.hufglocken.com/collections/kep-italia/products/kep-italia-sparkling-blue

Click to expand...

Thanks FC.  Not sure why the page that's pushing the KEP hats so hard couldn't have listed them.


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## Meowy Catkin (30 June 2017)

No SNELL though. 

http://www.beta-uk.org/media/safety/download/Riders - safety - hat standards.pdf


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## ester (30 June 2017)

I don't see why paying extra testing bodies makes it so amazing, when you arent including snell


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## Amye (30 June 2017)

Faracat said:



			RE the fall involving the KEP hat.


I don't see where the evidence for this is?
		
Click to expand...

There isn't any!


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## Nugget La Poneh (30 June 2017)

Just wondering if there is an intrinsic issue with any hat that is made of panels - the way forces are distributed on impact, it would be a join that would give out first?


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## Casey76 (30 June 2017)

Nugget La Poneh said:



			Just wondering if there is an intrinsic issue with any hat that is made of panels - the way forces are distributed on impact, it would be a join that would give out first?
		
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Probably - I fell off sand surface up with a mild concussion.  I actually had a hat cover on too, which stopped the panel from completely popping out.


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## ycbm (30 June 2017)

Nugget La Poneh said:



			Just wondering if there is an intrinsic issue with any hat that is made of panels - the way forces are distributed on impact, it would be a join that would give out first?
		
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I believe so. In the case of a single impact fall, then engineering wise they could be safest, just as crumple zones are safe on a car. But horse falls very often involve multiple impacts, (ground/hoof;  fence/ground; fence/ground/hoof;   ground/ground/ground if dragged)   and in those cases these hats would be very, very dangerous.


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## cobsarefab (1 July 2017)

A friend emailed KEP asking about how there helmets are safe and here's yheir response:
we thank you for sending us your question and comments concerning your
opinion on how the helmets should react to the impacts but perhaps you
should know some additional information before to issue your sentence.
We could speak all the day concerning the safety, perhaps also some weeks,
some months and then everybody is continuing to keep its opinion and I
respect this, but sometimes to enter much more inside the things can help
everybody to know more.
I try to explain something if you wish.
Do you remember years ago that all the cars were constructed with materials
that were very resistant to the impacts and when it happened to have an
accident and consequently a crash, they generally were not so broken in
their external parts as well as it is happening actually with the new cars?
And most of the time you had people that lost their life easier than
actually? Or that they had concussions and brain problems more than now?
I suppose that sometimes you have seen accidents during the Formula 1
racings and you see that cars are destroying but the driver is generally
safe compare to the accidents incurred long ago. Have you never asked you
why?
The fact is that more hard is the material used, more hard is also the
impact received by your head and the vibration caused are absorbed by your
head instead to be absorbed by the destruction of the material.
We have received many thanks from many riders that had very bad accidents
and they are still alive, we have had doctors that spoke to the families
declaring that they had to thank our helmets if the rider injured was still
alive, and it was also reported officially in many newspapers finding the
accident so terrible but the rider safe. 
I don't want to make your opinion different if you think that I'm telling
lies, but be assured that if we spend a lot of money to do tests and
consequently to obtain different certifications that the Official
Certification Bodies give to every constructers ONLY if you pass many crash
tests required by the Standards, that means that our helmets merit to be in
the market as well as the other brands.
Every Standard actually in the market has different tests who are very
different to be pass to be certified.  I personally wanted to have more
certifications to increase the safety of our helmets to assure the final
consumer that we manufacture helmets for giving the best  safety that it is
possible to obtain. When I personally decided to found Kep Italia it was not
for commercial reasons but only for looking to do the best for the safety, I
have spent 10 years of my life to do this and I'm continuing to invest in
research for obtain the best possible to make helmets much more safe and
comfortable for the final consumers in order to push them to wear the helmet
in every moment when they are riding and not, also when they walk with their
horses and when they are close to them because the accident can happens in
every moment.

As I told you before, we could continue to talk about this for hours but I
don't want to bore you.
The duration of a helmet depends on several degenerative factors, including
changes in temperature, amount of exposure to direct sunlight, intensity of
use. People should check the helmet regularly and you don't find a lot of
people doing it. Cracks, detachments, warping, peeling and discoloration
show the state of deterioration of the helmets: in any case it is advisable
to everyone to replace the helmet after 5 years, because its protection
power decreases with the aging of the materials it is made of. Many people
are proud to say that they have a helmet for more than 7/8 years and do not
want to change it because they don't want to spend money and ride with
outdated helmets. Is this something right for the safety in your opinion?

I wanted to reply personally to you because when I see people that instead
to learn more concerning the safety without knowing the argument  and have
the time to chat unnecessarily instead to do as you have done to contact the
manufacture for having replies for any doubts, for me it is really a missing
of time in respect to the people who really work very hard for their mission.


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## ycbm (1 July 2017)

That's all very well for racing cars to fall apart, but you will NEVER see the helmets that the people driving them are wearing do it, will you?

For single impact, these hats are probably very safe indeed if the glue has not got tired.   For multiple impact they could be lethal.


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## Meowy Catkin (1 July 2017)

I think that KEP has missed the point as F1 cars _are_ made to protect their drivers from multiple impacts. Also F1 cars may have crumple zones to absorb impacts these days outside the survival shell, but the survival shell itself is built to stay in one piece.




			The survival cell is surrounded by deformable crash-protection structures which absorb energy in an accident and features a roll-over hoop behind the driver&#8217;s head, made of metal or composite materials. The survival cell&#8217;s flanks are protected by a 6mm layer of carbon and Zylon, a material used to make bullet-proof vests, to prevent objects such as carbon fibre splinters entering the cockpit.
		
Click to expand...

https://www.formula1.com/en/championship/inside-f1/safety/cockpit-crash-tests/Cockpit_safety.html

I felt that KEP's reply was rather a lot of waffle and very little content.


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## ester (1 July 2017)

Doesn't fill you with confidence as a response does it :rolleyes3: 

I do think it brings up an important point regarding standards and accounting for secondary impacts. Just paying for as many standards as possible means very little in my book, it very much depends what those standards are. If they are that keen on standards I think that the lack of SNELL stands out even more.


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## DabDab (1 July 2017)

Well, behind all the Italian romantic blurb it's a slightly odd theory. I can't see anything on the KEP hats that could be described as a crumple zone. A hat with with a crumple zone capable of resisting impact of a nasty fall would be rather large. The KEP hat seems, like any other, to rely on the materials and structure to absorb the impact in one hit, rather than the breakdown energy absorption effect you get with a crumple zone.


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## Roxylola (1 July 2017)

The other thing with crumple zones is they are not so much designed to protect the occupants as people on the outside. Cars have crumple zones and structural integrity e.g. side impact bars. There is a reason rally cars have a cage in them


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## ester (1 July 2017)

excellent point roxylola!


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## Mike007 (2 July 2017)

Roxylola said:



			The other thing with crumple zones is they are not so much designed to protect the occupants as people on the outside. Cars have crumple zones and structural integrity e.g. side impact bars. There is a reason rally cars have a cage in them
		
Click to expand...

Absolute nonsense . The purpose of a crumple zone is to reduce the deceleration. Run a rally car cage into a block of concrete at speed and  and you will probably kill anyone inside. The same is true of hats . The current range of approved hats for BE are rubbish . They pass tests set by the manufacturers . The polystyrene foam interior will crumple to a minimal extent . A fall at speed onto your head transmits the impact directly into the neck. The old hats with a nylon webbing cradle allowed about 1.5 cm  of space and the elasticity of the nylon absorbed a lot of energy. 1.5 cm might not sound a lot but it is a hell of a lot more than modern hats give. I consider that the nerve damage I received from such a fall would have been greatly reduced by the older hats(circa 1985). The problem with the old hats was that the general public usualy failed to wear them correctly.


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## photo_jo (3 July 2017)

Big discussion on KEP hats (how wonderful they are), on Canterbury Equestrian Facebook if anyone wants to wade in and add their thoughts!


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## MozartK (9 July 2017)

ester said:



			They put up pics recently where the front had come off again in a thank goodness it was the hat not her head vibe, I think I even responded saying good job it didn't stand on her twice.. reminded me very much of this thread

yup KEP italia main facebook page, how is that a good thing?? I really can't imagine my HS1 doing that, or even my old out of spec air rider! 






https://www.facebook.com/KepItalia/

Click to expand...

I have forwarded the picture of the KEP hat from the Australian accident to Trading Standards, as they are communicating with KEP Italia through one of their import agents regarding the performance of their hats. They are doing this with support from an expert within the protective headwear field. They agree that a helmet for equestrian use MUST remain intact on the users head after impact, to protect from further potential impacts. Hopefully this is further evidence that the KEP helmet has potential to fall apart after one impact, which in theory makes this design unsuitable for equestrian use in the UK.

Please post any other pictures of KEP helmets that have fallen apart after impact during an accident. I can then forward to TS as this will strengthen the case to have this issue addressed. I just feel so frustrated and when I see these pictures. If KEP are so proud that their helmets fall apart on impact, to reduce injury to rider and the British Safety Standard are happy to accept this, then KEP should make this clear in their marketing. At least the user can then make an informed decision as to whether they put that type of helmet on their head.


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## Tiddlypom (9 July 2017)

Well done OP for continuing to keep up the pressure. 



Tiddlypom said:



			And another from the Kep Italia UK page from earlier this year. 

How do Kep keep on fooling people into thinking that their products are fit for purpose?
		
Click to expand...

Repeat post with fresh pics due to photobucket issue.


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## ycbm (9 July 2017)

Well done on fighting this MK, you are doing a big favour to rider safety. I hope these hats get banned before someone dies, or worse ends up a vegetable on life support,  and their family sue KEP for selling a fundamentally unsafe hat.

Four good pictures if you Google 'KEP hat failure'  and look at 'images'


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## MozartK (9 July 2017)

Tiddlypom said:



			Well done OP for continuing to keep up the pressure. 

Repeat post with fresh pics due to photobucket issue.


















Click to expand...


Thanks Piddlypom, I must have missed those the first time you posted. I will pass on to TS. This has been rumbling on for 2 years now and the reason TS have not put more effort into it, was due to my incident being the only incident they were aware of. Hopefully more incidents of failure will add credibility and something might come of it.


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## MozartK (9 July 2017)

ycbm said:



			Well done on fighting this MK, you are doing a big favour to rider safety. I hope these hats get banned before someone dies, or worse ends up a vegetable on life support,  and their family sue KEP for selling a fundamentally unsafe hat.

Four good pictures if you Google 'KEP hat failure'  and look at 'images'
		
Click to expand...

Thanks ycbm. I just looked at google images but the only broken KEP pictures I can see are of my hat, just taken in different places as I moved around for better lighting. However, as I googled as I was amazed to see just how far my pictures went!


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## Tiddlypom (10 July 2017)

MK, that's a new version of my username, haven't seen that one before !

The facebook screen shots that Ester and I have put up on this thread are IMHO especially valuable evidence as KEP Italia themselves have been sharing them. KEP are clearly proud and happy to show photos of badly broken helmets. You'd have thought they'd want to disassociate themselves from the pics.


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## MozartK (10 July 2017)

Ooops Tiddlypom, how funny, sorry about that!

Just having the one broken helmet was easy for people to pass off as a one off but these pictures make this a much more serious issue, which should be addressed. Also as you say, promoting a hat that disintegrates upon impact is not acceptable for a horse riding helmet which is meant to remain intact on the head after a number of impacts. TS and the consultant they are using, have specifically questioned KEP about this and KEP are standing by their disintegration theory. However, unless the impact test for the British kite mark changes, this hat will continue to pass the test and this is what everyone is hiding behind, irrelevant of whatever KEP claim. These pictures need to convince them to change the impact test, so that the tester can look at the design of the hat and choose the test area, looking for specific weakness points in the helmet due to the design. I believe this is what the Snell test does.   

I am also sending the pictures to BE as I believe they could intervene and advise the British Testing Standards body on how riding helmets should be tested. With the data and information they have collected from falls during investigations from BE events, they should be able to provide evidence that shows riders do not always fall on the same part of their head, each time they hit the ground. They should also be able to show evidence of secondary impacts. BE were made aware of my fall and damage to my hat when it happened but weren't particularly interested. Hopefully these pictures will make them reconsider.


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## I.M.N. (10 July 2017)

You're doing brilliant work MozartK. Every time I come back to this thread it leaves me in disbelief that a riding hat falling apart is a selling point, especially as I suffered a nasty kick to the head at the end of last year, that apart from slight loss of hearing in one ear has left no lasting problems. I'm in an area populated by show jumpers and I'd say 90% wear KEP hats and every time I see someone in one it makes me shudder a little.


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