# Feeding a very underweight horse



## Countrychic (6 March 2013)

Looking for advice on feeding a horse with bodyweight score of 2 ( sadly im not being dramatic, he really is that bad  )He is 18hh and should be a good MW. I've started him on pink powder,alfa oil, linseed and fast fibre twice a day. Over the next couple of days I'm going to increase it to 3 feeds a day. Do you think I should change from fast fibre as I've heard it's not good for weight gain? Would you add a conditioning feed? I've used winergy condition in the past and been really impressed. I was looking on the feeding forum and someone said they  fed whey powder, has anyone else done this? Do you rate the muscle supplements ? I'm not sure I can afford £80 a tub but if it's THAT good I could always sell a kidney


----------



## Jane_Lou (6 March 2013)

When we bought our mare in February last year she was condition scored at 1.5 to 2 so similar or worse to yours! I fed her ad lib hay, Sugar beet, Hi-Fi, linseed meal, brewers yeast and for the first three months D&H staypower Cubes which I find brilliant for putting on weight and less "explosive" that most true weight gain feeds. We worked her the whole time as I wanted the weight to go on the right places rather than her just getting a belly. 3 months to the day of buying her she ran in her first event - she has been on a diet since  

I was lucky in that my mare is an incredibly good doer, she is now on Balancer, Tiger Oats, Alfa and brewers yeast and looks a million dollars - previous owners can't of fed her as I'll be dammed if I can keep her trim despite her being in a stack of work!


----------



## RachelFerd (6 March 2013)

Fast Fibre, as I said on another thread very recently, absolutely pointless feed for an underweight horse. Basically equivalent to feeding very low quality hay or even just chopped straw with a few added vits and minerals. No good.

Ad lib haylage or hay is the main thing that you need.

Micronized linseed is great. Pink Powder probably not necessary if you are going to feed proper quantities of a well balanced hard feed, although can be useful if he is prone to getting loose droppings.

If you want to feed a soaked feed I would probably stick to unmollassed sugar beet, or soaked grass nuts. However I would be topping it up with a conditioning cube - lots of people like Baileys No. 4, however I feed a much cheaper but very similar stud cube that I buy from a local producer which has similar levels of digestible energy, protein, oil etc.

Alfa A Oil is fine, but I think it works out cheaper to add alfalfa chaff (I use D&H as its the cheapest stocked locally) and add my own oil bought from tescos.

Are you weighing your feeds? My 15.2hh poor doer gets 4kg of hard feed per day along with ad lib haylage. I suspect you will be wanting to feed quite a bit more than that to an 18hh MW, but it will need to be split into 3 or 4 feeds.


----------



## milo'n'molly (6 March 2013)

Firstly I'd question why he is so underweight. If it is simply that he hasn't been fed enough then I'd slow down, the last thing he needs is lots of different food being swapped around.
If he's well other than weight id make sure he is kept warm with as much fibre in hay/haylage/fast fibre as you can get in him.
Feed wise I'd have home on 3 or 4 small meals a day straight away and build the size of the feeds rather than build up the number of feeds but I think what you are feeding him is good I'd possibly feed a feed balancer to make sure he was getting all vits and mins.
I personally wouldnt feed a conditioning feed just yet as you don't want to force the weight on such an underweight horse just give him time but I'd take regular photos or weigh tape because if you see him every day you might not see the improvements.
Baileys no 1  is good for bulking up further down the road.
Whatever happened to him before he seems to have landed on his feet with you and im sure you'll get him back to health in no time.
Good luck


----------



## milo'n'molly (6 March 2013)

RachelFerd said:



			Are you weighing your feeds? My 15.2hh poor doer gets 4kg of hard feed per day along with ad lib haylage. I suspect you will be wanting to feed quite a bit more than that to an 18hh MW, but it will need to be split into 3 or 4 feeds.
		
Click to expand...


This is why maybe feed a balancer such as topspec so he's getting everything he needs plus you can add extras like the linseed and a conditioning feed if you want to when he's settled.

Ps baileys 4 is very similar to their racehorse cubes which are cheaper


----------



## maccachic (6 March 2013)

http://www.ker.com/library/advances/312.pdf

This is a good read

If the horse has started to become emaciated you need a vet / nutritionist to assist they require different feeding regimes than a horse that has lost weight but isn't consuming muscle.

The slow steady path is the best.

In my experience I brough a skinny horse and tried everything under the sun with average results.  

I went back to what I had always done and simplified things to Oats, lucerne, yeast, good multi vitamin / mineral and the esults were pretty instant I hadn't even finished tranisitioning and he was improving.  

He had feet, teeth, chiro, massge when I first got him to address those issues.  There are pics in my album.


----------



## Countrychic (6 March 2013)

Jane Lou thanks that's encouraging to hear yours progressed so fast. I'm also keeping mine in work but at the moment it's very gentle.
Rachelferd I haven't been weighing his feed but plan to start tomorrow. He's getting 1 stubs scoop alfa oil, 1.5 of sloppy fast fibre and 1 large mug of linseed twice a day.
Milo'n'molly it is just a lack of any food and being too cold.


----------



## Gerdy (6 March 2013)

I have recently had amazing success with my eternally underweight boy, simply by switching to haylage. 

As well as the slightly higher calories, he just loves the stuff so eats tons more of it than he would eat the hay. 

Finally I have managed to cut down his hard feed for once as he is verging on overweight - I am so so happy!!


----------



## meardsall_millie (6 March 2013)

I agree that an underweight horse needs a slow, steady approach and consulting a vet/nutritionist for advice may be wise to avoid re-feeding syndrome.

Essentially it should have a high fibre/low starch regime - this means no cereals to begin with (that includes oats, mixes, most nuts, etc, etc).  Good quality soaked hay should form the bulk of its ration fed in very small amounts (0.5kg) over 6 meals through the day.  Gradually, over 10 days the ration should be increased then slowly introduce higher energy dense feeds - sugar beet pulp, alfalfa, etc.

In time, oil can can be added to the ration but should be done gradually and should not exceed 100ml/100kg bodyweight.


----------



## RachelFerd (6 March 2013)

I still maintain that balancers aren't intended for horses receiving a high ration of hard feed - this is just dangerously overfeeding with nutrients that aren't required. Not that balancers are bad, just they can't automatically 'balance' with everything else that you are feeding. It is quite easily possible to feed far too many vitamins!

As for your current feeding weights - 1 scoop of alfa-a oil will weight very very little, so won't be contributing much. 1 scoop of sloppy fast fibre is basically feeding nothing more than water - remember you need to be weighing the dry weight that you are feeding, not the soaked weight.

Try and get a gauge of approximately how much hay/haylage the horse is eating when offered on an ad-lib basis. My lad simply won't eat more than about 10 kilos of haylage per day, he just isn't that interested. Now since he weighs about 550kg, he should be eating 2.5% of his bodyweight each day to maintain condition. This is 13.75 kilos, so the 4kg of hard feed I give him ensures that he is meeting this amount of feed every day, day in, day out.

It helps to know exactly what you are feeding to be able to improve on what you are giving.

Of course it should be built up gradually, but I think we've got so caught up on low starch low sugar diets etc. we have half forgotten the basic principles of how much food big horses require??


----------



## meardsall_millie (6 March 2013)

A ration high in hard feed (ie cereals) is likely to be deficient in a number of nutrients - calcium for a start - so a broad spectrum multi vit supplement would probably be wise. 

A horse with a BCS of 2 on the Henneke scale is severely underweight and cannot be fed as a 'normal' horse would be - a specialist diet is required.


----------



## amandaco2 (6 March 2013)

I'd check his teeth and worm status.
Keep him warm enough, plenty of turnout.
I'd feed fibre based diet...so as much hay as he will eat.
Bucket feed I'd give something oil based. You could use a base such as chaff and add oil or an oil based feed like ers pellets. I'd also feed something like yeasacc to aid digestion and a powder mineral and vit suppliment.


----------



## foxy1 (7 March 2013)

Equi- jewel is very good, you don't need to feed much volume.


----------



## milo'n'molly (7 March 2013)

RachelFerd said:



			I still maintain that balancers aren't intended for horses receiving a high ration of hard feed - this is just dangerously overfeeding with nutrients that aren't required. Not that balancers are bad, just they can't automatically 'balance' with everything else that you are feeding. It is quite easily possible to feed far too many vitamins!

?
		
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, you are of course completely right I must not have explained myself adequately. I was not suggestion feeding a complete mix and a balancer, I was suggesting that since this horse is so underweight that feeding the required level of cereal based mix may be too much for him to start with and high fibre feeds should be the majority of his feed and a balancer or general vit min supplement will be needed.
When he gets back to a normal weight and if it turns out he is a poor dooer and needs that bit extra then get rid of the balancer in favour of a full ration of a hard feed.

I'm sure with some TLC he will look like a different horse in no time at all


----------



## Maesfen (7 March 2013)

Some very good advice here but can I say, I really wouldn't be working him if he's that badly underweight.  I'd turn him away/out every day and leave him be other than feed of course as otherwise he's only working everything off; he needs to build up his condition before he does any work (and that includes pootles down the lane) it will take so much longer to get him right if you work him.


----------



## KatB (7 March 2013)

I'd keep it simple and fibre based. As said, consult a specialist, but I'd have him on ad lib good quality hay (hayledge can be too acidic if they're sensitive) soaked grass nuts, and then what you are already feeding. As m_m says, I would be steering clear of anything with grain in, and staying as low starch as possible, so again this rules out most conditioning cubes.
Also, where possible do as little as possible with him, so he's using as much of the energy of the feed to put on weight, and not for energy, so keeping him warm and out of work for the time being 

 Hope all goes well


----------



## Amymay (7 March 2013)

I also wouldn't work such an underweight horse.  You want the energy going in to putting on weight - not work.


----------



## Countrychic (7 March 2013)

Thanks will keep you updated. Will steer clear of conditioning feeds for now, change the fast fibre, buy him a vit & min supplement and up the number of feeds. Will worm him and have dentist and physio booked (physio has set his work programme and I have 100% trust in her) Will give him a couple of weeks on that then let you know the progress. He's on ad lib hayledge (but it's not rich hayledge) and goes out every morning with a haynet. I don't think he's a poor doer naturally so hopefully he should be looking good before too long. Thanks for all your help x


----------



## Layla77 (16 November 2013)

HI, I know this is an old thread but i wondered how you got on?

I have just taken on a rescue, she is very underweight, at a guess id say a body condition of 1.5 to 2.

I have decided to put her on Blue chip pro and alfa oil with unlimited haylege.

I will be starting small, giving a handful of feed 4 times a day and slowly building up.

I have never done this before so any advice that hasnt already been said would be greatly recieved.

I will be not working her right away (she is to thin to ride anyway) but i will start lungeing after she puts a bit of weight on.

One thing im not sure about it turn out? is it worth keeping her in with good hayleage or turning her out during the day to graze?

Thanks in advance

x


----------



## 9tails (16 November 2013)

Turn her out, Layla77.  Keeping horses in doesn't help their emotional wellbeing but make sure you rug appropriately for the weather conditions.


----------



## Holidays_are_coming (17 November 2013)

I took on a horse 6 weeks ago who had poormmuscle so looked horrible but not really thin.  I have him on a top spec cup of coolstance Copra (its the highest calorie food I can find) a scoop of alfa a and 50ml twice a day of linseed oil (all twice daily)  with adlib hay and turnout and people can't believe the difference. He has been working slowly increasing it but is starting to look fab another few months and we will have a nice muscly horse.


----------



## HaffiesRock (17 November 2013)

I fed up my thin pony with ad lib hay, unmollased sugar beet, grass nuts and micronised linseed. He really does look great on it and doesnt get fizzed up.


----------



## spookypony (17 November 2013)

Thread necromancy! 

I was wondering if the OP's horse was a 2 on the 5-point scale or on the 9-point scale when all this was happening? I hope he's nicely rounded now!

I also used Coolstance Copra on the advice of a nutritionist, to put weight on a laminitis-risk pony in the spring. He had free-choice hay, about 1 kg of speedibeet, 1 kg of Copra, 300g of linseed, and his mineral supplement, spread over 2 feeds. He had previously been on lucerne nuts, and I transitioned him from those and upped the quantities over 2 weeks. Despite him being in competition work at the time, he took only about 6 weeks until I was happy with his weight again. Copra seems to be very popular with the barefoot crowd as a weight-gain feed, as it's high in fat and protein (and calories!), but very low in starches.


----------



## Exploding Chestnuts (17 November 2013)

I recently got my boy 15.00 back from abusive home when he had already had 10 weeks of light feeding, so I was able to start on full feeding regime within a week , but I did know him well, and was pretty sure he would not colic.
However I had never previously given him ad lib hay, but he ate up as much as was put in front of him at night! He was given top ups of hay and or some grazing during the day and kept in at night if if was cold/wet, so pretty much pampered.
Using a weight tape, I measured him every Sunday am, and in week one he put in 20Kg and same again in week two!
When in light work he got 500kg [dry] feed per day in two feeds. This was good quality chaff and non molassed s/beet.
I also fed 100gms linseed and 30 gm minerals.
His weight went up from 414 to 465 in six weeks, his coat blossomed and he really sparkled. Fresh water of course, and a bit of salt.


----------



## Hedwards (17 November 2013)

Micronised linseed & alltech lifeforce would be my recommendation. Lots of small feeds rather then 2 big feeds, well rugged, acess to good quality forage 24/7


----------



## Tonks (23 November 2013)

I know this is an old thread but this may be useful....Do a lot of random reading and this just popped into my head.

Bascially, bit of recent research has found that severally underweight or starved horses can suffer from re-feeding syndrome as humans do too. If a high carbohydrate diet is given, insulin was released in response to the high level of starch. Insulin facilitates carbohydrate uptake from the bloodstream and storage into cells for future energy use. However, it also draws the electrolytes phosphorus and magnesium from circulation into the cells. Starved horse have no stores of electrolytes, so this depletion may lead to kidney, heart and respiratory failure. 

These effects do not happen with the initial meal but can be seen several days to a week later due to the repetition of insulin release following a high-carbohydrate meal and the cumulative depletion of electrolytes. 

Oat hay is bulky and caused diahorra and nutrients low. Alfalfa hay was the best to feed as it is high in protein but low in carbohydrate content and there was minimal insulin response. Corn oil was also fed with alfalfa but again this affected metabolism so was not recommended.

There is more on the internet about this, but it was recommended that starved horses are feed alfalfa hay 6 x 6lbs per day ONLY (6 feeds of 1Lb) - no oil, apples, sugerbeet, linseed, normal hay, concentrates, balancers, etc. 

After two weeks of feeding small amounts of alfalfa only, give as much alfalfa as they can eat but feed nothing else, not even apples, carrots etc, (as they contain carbs) and certainly no concentrated foodstuff.

This should continue for SEVERAL months until the horse reaches acceptable weight levels.

So, although your horse may not be starved, there may be some bits of information in this study that may be pertinent to their recovery and health. Certainly made me think.

Not sure if it's relevant but it just popped into my head after reading this post. Good luck with all horses mentioned.


----------

