# Oh dear



## Trot_On_Dressage (8 November 2011)

http://www.horsemart.co.uk/ex_racehorses_horse_5_yrs_15_2_hh_chestnut_kent/advert/198230


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## rhino (8 November 2011)

Why the shocked face? 
Not the best advert or photo I have ever seen but don't really see a problem.


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## Merry Crisis (8 November 2011)

I am affraid I am  too.


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## Trot_On_Dressage (8 November 2011)

Really? I hope it is standing in a ditch...its butt is higher than its head!


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## BillyBob-Sleigh (8 November 2011)

rhino said:



			Why the shocked face? 
Not the best advert or photo I have ever seen but don't really see a problem.
		
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I agree, granted she's a bit under weight but nothing too awful - I think her price reflects this too...


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## BellaBee (8 November 2011)

Probably not what everyone is gasping about, but does it look like the rider has, er, ripped their jodhpurs?


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## highlandponygirl (8 November 2011)

umm, something looks a bit wrong here


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## frustrated (8 November 2011)

dodgy dealer in swanley well know poor little thing look at the others he has for sale


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## FMM (8 November 2011)

BellaBee said:



			Probably not what everyone is gasping about, but does it look like the rider has, er, ripped their jodhpurs? 

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She is wearing shorts and long boots!  nice look.

Horse looks a bit poor though.   Rider doesn't!


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## Trot_On_Dressage (8 November 2011)

BellaBee said:



			Probably not what everyone is gasping about, but does it look like the rider has, er, ripped their jodhpurs? 

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Ha! I didnt notice that but i think she might have!


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## mahorse (8 November 2011)

Ahhh, bless.....


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## Trot_On_Dressage (8 November 2011)

JessHakner said:



			I agree, granted she's a bit under weight but nothing too awful - I think her price reflects this too...
		
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Sorry i am being mean but it has the worst confirmation i have seen for a long time! 

To be even meaner.... it actually made me laugh out loud!  Poor little thing.


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## BellaBee (8 November 2011)

FMM, I think you might be right, looks a bit cold to be riding in shorts, despite possibly having tights on.


The horse isn't the worst I've seen, plus it is actually on a slope, thus the very low front end.


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## JingleTingle (8 November 2011)

Poor little thing - it looks like a 'cut and shut' of the horse world doesn't it? Glad it isnt near me - I would be daft enough to buy it out of pity.


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## Trot_On_Dressage (8 November 2011)

It may be on a slight slope but not as much as it backs suggests. It is def very croup high!


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## Trot_On_Dressage (8 November 2011)

grumpyoldmare said:



			Poor little thing - it looks like a 'cut and shut' of the horse world doesn't it? Glad it isnt near me - I would be daft enough to buy it out of pity.

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That is the phrase i was looking for!


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## BellaBee (8 November 2011)

Oh yes, definitely would have a low front end regardless of the land but I do think the slope and the angle of the photo makes it looks worse than is.

Thing still needs a bit of TLC, bless it


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## rhino (8 November 2011)

Trot_On_Dressage said:



			Sorry i am being mean but it has the worst confirmation i have seen for a long time!
		
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I'm afraid I'm still confused (nothing changes there then  ) Should people not be allowed to sell horses with poor conformation? What should they do with them instead?  

It is a dealer with a less than glowing reputation. Horse doesn't look great, admitted, but neither do the others. As to conformation, I'm not really sure just how much you can tell from the angle of the photo. I don't think anyone would be suggesting she could be a 4* eventer but then how many people are genuinely looking for one of those?

I actually think she looks quite sweet; one of those horses that with correct feeding and work could change completely. Of course, equally she could still end up being a complete donkey but I don't think the price is unrealistic for the gamble a buyer would be taking.


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## FionaM12 (8 November 2011)

There was another thread earlier about one of the horses from the same seller. http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=495311


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## FionaM12 (8 November 2011)

It does amaze me that with digital cameras and phones that take pictures everywhere, people use such useless photos to advertise their horses.


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## rhino (8 November 2011)

FionaM12 said:



			There was another thread earlier about one of the horses from the same seller. http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=495311

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That's not the same seller, the bay is in oxford and is a private seller, not a dealer


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## Jazzy B (8 November 2011)

I think she looks quite sweet I would take a gamble for that money too!


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## Trot_On_Dressage (8 November 2011)

rhino said:



			I'm afraid I'm still confused (nothing changes there then  ) Should people not be allowed to sell horses with poor conformation? What should they do with them instead?  

It is a dealer with a less than glowing reputation. Horse doesn't look great, admitted, but neither do the others. As to conformation, I'm not really sure just how much you can tell from the angle of the photo. I don't think anyone would be suggesting she could be a 4* eventer but then how many people are genuinely looking for one of those?

I actually think she looks quite sweet; one of those horses that with correct feeding and work could change completely. Of course, equally she could still end up being a complete donkey but I don't think the price is unrealistic for the gamble a buyer would be taking. 

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Of course people can sell horses with less than perfect confirmation! I was just having a chuckle at it, thats all! Sorry if that isnt very pc but there you go!

TBH it is so croup high no matter how much work you did on it you wouldnt be able to change that, but £400 isnt a lot..... but you could go to racehorse sale and pick up one whose bum wasnt higher than its head!


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## Honey08 (8 November 2011)

rhino said:



			I'm afraid I'm still confused (nothing changes there then  ) Should people not be allowed to sell horses with poor conformation? What should they do with them instead?  

It is a dealer with a less than glowing reputation. Horse doesn't look great, admitted, but neither do the others. As to conformation, I'm not really sure just how much you can tell from the angle of the photo. I don't think anyone would be suggesting she could be a 4* eventer but then how many people are genuinely looking for one of those?

I actually think she looks quite sweet; one of those horses that with correct feeding and work could change completely. Of course, equally she could still end up being a complete donkey but I don't think the price is unrealistic for the gamble a buyer would be taking. 

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I agree.  It just looks like a baby that needs to do a lot of filling out.  You can't even see the withers to say how high they are and how unlevel from front to rear it is.  Most babies go up bit by bit - give it two years with some food and work, and it will be a different picture.  If they were asking over a thousand you could mock, but its not expensive.


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## Trot_On_Dressage (8 November 2011)

margerita11 said:



			I think she looks quite sweet I would take a gamble for that money too!
		
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You have more money than sense!


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## Trot_On_Dressage (8 November 2011)

Honey08 said:



			I agree.  It just looks like a baby that needs to do a lot of filling out.  You can't even see the withers to say how high they are and how unlevel from front to rear it is.  Most babies go up bit by bit - give it two years with some food and work, and it will be a different picture.  If they were asking over a thousand you could mock, but its not expensive.
		
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It is 5 tho. At 5yrs you wouldnt want it bum to be so high, its front end is never going to catch up.


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## GypsyGirl (8 November 2011)

rhino said:



			Why the shocked face? 
Not the best advert or photo I have ever seen but don't really see a problem.
		
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I agree with this .. Horse is an ex racer and only 5 .. id imagine that in the horses racing career it was all brushed up and turned out well (and there kept fit as a fiddle so deffinatly would look different) .. I dont think the photo does horse justice .. My mare was like this but (my personal opinion tb's dont look great when there starting to grow a winter coat and when they have a winter coat) and this is an example because you can see its starting to grow a winter coat and looks like it hasnt done much since racing hence the small neck and the bum being higher .. looks like it just needs to mature up! I wonder what its racing career was like .. how long its been out of racing before .. 

My mare was like this after she stopped her racing career .. because there kept so fit when racing then one day its over and depending what happens to them .. turn away or carried on riding. Dont get me wrong people will have other views but this is all I think, also i may be wrong i didnt read the description may be working etc when i said it looks like it hasnt done much since racing


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## FionaM12 (8 November 2011)

rhino said:



			That's not the same seller, the bay is in oxford and is a private seller, not a dealer 

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D'oh! Sorry, I thought it was in the "from the same member" bit but it must've been in the bit saying what I'd recently viewed!


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## Sussexbythesea (8 November 2011)

Trot_On_Dressage said:



			Sorry i am being mean but it has the worst confirmation i have seen for a long time! 

To be even meaner.... it actually made me laugh out loud!  Poor little thing.
		
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Yes you are mean - I don't like the way some people seem to enjoy ridiculing others especially poor horses without much hope of enjoying a half decent life - it makes me very sad.  Your comments reminds me of certain yard witches. Have you ever heard the phrase "if you can't say something nice then don't say anything at all".

Don't see the point of your post at all.


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## GypsyGirl (8 November 2011)

Trot_On_Dressage said:



			It is 5 tho. At 5yrs you wouldnt want it bum to be so high, its front end is never going to catch up.
		
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Hmm yeah but my mare (bought her as a 5year old 15hh.. shes 6 now and measured her the other month and she was boarding 15.2/15.3 now I know thats not much difference but shes going up still) and another on my yard irish sports horse bought as a 5year old also last year .. was a 16hh and is now 17hh and is still growing and hes 6 now too) .. 

Its easy enough to say they shouldnt be that bum high etc but it all depends on how they mature etc .. some mature and grow quicker and slower then others


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## Trot_On_Dressage (8 November 2011)

sussexbythesea said:



			Yes you are mean - I don't like the way some people seem to enjoy ridiculing others especially poor horses without much hope of enjoying a half decent life - it makes me very sad.  Your comments reminds me of certain yard witches. Have you ever heard the phrase "if you can't say something nice then don't say anything at all".

Don't see the point of your post at all.
		
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I am no witch thank you very much! 

But i do also laugh at my neighbours dog who is a mongrel with a normal sized dogs body with the smallest stumpiest legs you have ever seen. Always makes me think someone has come a long and chopped off his legs. 

Just having some light hearted fun! Sorry to the PC police


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## rhino (8 November 2011)

Trot_On_Dressage said:



			But i do also laugh at my neighbours dog who is a mongrel with a normal sized dogs body with the smallest stumpiest legs you have ever seen. Always makes me think someone has come a long and chopped off his legs.
		
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But do you do it in public, and link to photos of it with contact details for the owner?


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## Trot_On_Dressage (8 November 2011)

rhino said:



			But do you do it in public, and link to photos of it with contact details for the owner? 

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yes i do 

Anyway the owner should thank me. Ive drummed up lots of interest in it. Infact i should ask for commission


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## rockysmum (8 November 2011)

I actually dont think its as bad as it looks.  I am assuming its standing downhill and facing away from the camera which give it this strange look.  As has been said before with some food and care it might not be that bad.
She actually has a look of my first ever horse, about 45 years ago.  She came looking a bit like that and with a bit of love and care turned into the best horse I have ever owned.

Hope someone does buy her, poor thing.


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## Hedgewitch13 (8 November 2011)

Ex racehorse my arse... Poor love needs someone knowledgeable to take her on and give her some tlc.


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## Merry Crisis (8 November 2011)

Trot_On_Dressage said:



			yes i do 

Anyway the owner should thank me. Ive drummed up lots of interest in it. Infact i should ask for commission
		
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Hahahaha! So you should Trot_On_Dressage.


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## FionaM12 (8 November 2011)

I thought the ad had been posted because the OP was concerned about the animal's condition. I'm quite uncomfortable that in fact we were being invited to have a laugh at the little horse.


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## lula (8 November 2011)

as a professional photographer for a living its the photographer who took this picture that needs to be taken out and shot not the horse. 
If i was asked to make a horse look its absolute worst i dont think i could have done a better job.

Having said that, if you put a photo on the internet to sell a horse  thats going to hopefully attract some buyers and not look like you couldnt give a cr@p could you at least please borrow a saddle and a yard broom?


the words barge and pole spring to mind for the dealer not the poor horse.


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## stencilface (8 November 2011)

I think its a reasonable horse for the price tbh.  Not my cup of tea, but looks sweet enough   Hope someone snaps her up - could be a bargain


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## frustrated (8 November 2011)

No price is reasonable from that yard barge and pole, just feel sorry for the poor things that have landed up and the bottom of the food chain. Because believe me the meatman would be a blessing


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## Frumpoon (8 November 2011)

Poor creature, is there anybody in that neck of the woods who could take her on?

Oh and Trot_On_Nonsense, you are vile to invite us all to laugh at this poor little thing, yes you are a witch - of the worst kind in fact because you see now wrong in making fun of another living thing's misery, now crawl away won't you....


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## PapaFrita (8 November 2011)

Trot_On_Dressage said:



			Sorry i am being mean but it has the worst confirmation i have seen for a long time! 

To be even meaner.... it actually made me laugh out loud!  Poor little thing.
		
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Since you make such a big deal of it, perhaps you should be able to spell confOrmation. Since we're being all nitpicky, and ridiculing and all....


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## FionaM12 (8 November 2011)

Trot_On_Dressage said:



			i do also laugh at my neighbours dog who is a mongrel with a normal sized dogs body with the smallest stumpiest legs you have ever seen. 

Just having some light hearted fun! Sorry to the PC police
		
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By pc police I guess you mean people who don't find animals who aren't perfectly put together hilarious?

You'd find my dogs over the years hysterically funny I'm sure.. "mongrels" the lot of them.


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## Sheep (8 November 2011)

FionaM12 said:



			You'd find my dogs over the years hysterically funny I'm sure.. "mongrels" the lot of them. 

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Sure there is practically no such thing as a mongrel these days.. they get a fancy new name and are touted as a designer breed.. eg labradoodle, schnug, puggle.. etc! 

Anyway, I hope this little horse does end up in the right hands, bless her.


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## Jesstickle (8 November 2011)

I could find tonnes of awful photos of Nits that make her look just as bad as this. It certainly isn't the strangest looking horse I've ever seen. Don't know anything of the dealer so can't comment on that front


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## rhino (8 November 2011)

sheep said:



			Sure there is practically no such thing as a mongrel these days.. they get a fancy new name and are touted as a designer breed.. eg labradoodle, schnug, puggle.. etc! 

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Nope, there are still some bona fide mongrels about, here is my mutt, yes not put together brilliantly but she's the best dog I've ever had


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## FionaM12 (8 November 2011)

sheep said:



			Sure there is practically no such thing as a mongrel these days.. they get a fancy new name and are touted as a designer breed.. eg labradoodle, schnug, puggle.. etc! 

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I think mine might be a stafflabcollurcherorgi then.


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## Sheep (8 November 2011)

rhino said:



			Nope, there are still some bona fide mongrels about, here is my mutt, yes not put together brilliantly but she's the best dog I've ever had 





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Looks cute to me! Anyway, with a mixed breed, you tend to avoid the horrible diseases that pedigree dogs tend to be genetically predisposed towards, don't you? I would apologise to OP for hijacking the thread, but I think the whole idea behind it was mean spirited, so I shall keep quiet on that front.


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## Sheep (8 November 2011)

FionaM12 said:



			I think mine might be a stafflabcollurcherorgi then. 

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Ooh, always wanted one of those..


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## brucea (8 November 2011)

Look closely at the stances of these horses, look at the feet.


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## FionaM12 (8 November 2011)

sheep said:



			I would apologise to OP for hijacking the thread, but I think the whole idea behind it was mean spirited, so I shall keep quiet on that front.
		
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That's right, how dare you, we're supposed to be splitting our sides at that poor little horse and poking fun at it.


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## bumblelion (8 November 2011)

If I lived closer I'd buy her, I'm even tempted to get a delivery firm in to pick her up and bring her here this week! Yes, I'm crazy, but I think with my heart n not my head!! I don't compete so a horse is a horse to me, whatever it looks like!


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## Jesstickle (8 November 2011)

Here we go look. Here is Nits with her head lower than her bum and her backside in the air. Shall we all have a chuckle at her instead? I don't mind. She is well loved and how she looks is unimportant to me really


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## rhino (8 November 2011)

Or T, not only looking croup high (actually he isn't) but horrendously long backed (he is this!)





The fact he got to 20 without a day's lameness, is unbeaten ODE, and has often won team chasing, sj (has a national title), TREC and hunter trialling, and is the easiest, nicest horse I have ever met means I don't actually care if you want to have a laugh at his expense...


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## Spring Feather (8 November 2011)

Well I think she's rather cute actually.  There's nothing glaringly obviously wrong with her conformation going on that photo.  The photo is not great and maybe in real life she's dreadfully put together, but maybe she's not.  As for bum-high, skinny neck and overall looking very immature, well I can tell you some TB bloodlines really do have horses take their time about maturing.  I have some who never came into themselves till they were 6-7 years old and some of them were pretty gangly as youngsters but they are unrecognisable now with a few more calories, muscled up and with some extra years on them.  Now this mare may be a nutcase in real life but she may not be too.  The negativity on here must surely be unfounded many times over given the law of averages?


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## Jesstickle (8 November 2011)

On a roll now, here is BH 







He is nearly five in this photo. Doesn't exactly look like something you'd want to buy does he? Infact, I'd say he looks much worse than the little mare we're supposed to be laughing at!


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## FionaM12 (8 November 2011)

Something odd I've just noticed about the ad: It says she's "TBx" which I take to mean not pure-bred? Yet it says she's an ex-racer. 

Don't horses have to be pure TB in order to race?


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## Clodagh (8 November 2011)

I don't know how anyone could laugh at the condition of that poor little horse, with that great lump sitting on her. You are some sick puppies (those who think its funny).

Go and look on the Brooke Hospital website, theres some hilarious photos of donkeys and horses working in Egypt and so on that you will really split your sides over.


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## kirstyl (8 November 2011)

FionaM12 said:



			Something odd I've just noticed about the ad: It says she's "TBx" which I take to mean not pure-bred? Yet it says she's an ex-racer. 

Don't horses have to be pure TB in order to race? 

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Yes, I noticed that too.


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## sakaspuds (8 November 2011)

i sure hope no-one ever does a confOrmation critique on me, no-one would ever buy me!


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## FionaM12 (8 November 2011)

sakaspuds said:



			i sure hope no-one ever does a confOrmation critique on me, no-one would ever buy me!
		
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Hahahaha! Me neither! And my stumpy little legs would get more of a laugh than the Op's neighbour's dog!


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## laura_lor (8 November 2011)

I also thinks she looks rather sweet, and I bet she'll turn out to be lovely with a bit of hard work and TLC from the right owner.
Even if she is less than 100% perfect conformation wise, I think it's sad that anybody would go so far as to be malicious about another living creature based solely on their looks. Looks aren't everything, and everyone and indeed everything, has some flaw or another. I'd personally rather own an animal that was less than 100% in appearance but had the right temperament. True beauty lies within and all...
I don't think that it is right to laugh at anyone, or anything, for the way that they look, if she isn't what you would want in a horse then fine,  just click on the next advert until you find something more suitable for your requirements and leave it at that.


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## JessandCharlie (8 November 2011)

I *think* anglos can race, as can arabs, but only in certain races. TBs can race in Arab races, but not the other way around. The 'TB x' tag may just to be an effort to drum up some more hits if people search for that though  

I could find some awful conformation shots of our lot, and the seller has hardly taken the best picture possible and the horse still looks odd, it's frankly an appalling photo. 

I think she looks sweet, nice little face, bless her

J&C


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## stencilface (8 November 2011)

And I'm sure if we all thought about it we could name some pretty famous horses with some fairly shocking confo.  Yes, good confo helps a horse, and help with soundness, but it is not the be all and end all.  My sisters horse (now 20) has very upright boxy feet, upright pasterns, and v straight shoulder, yet has competed over and above 1.10, evented, and generally is a great horse, never had a confo related lameness in his life (few abscesses though!)


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## Jazzy B (8 November 2011)

bumblelion said:



			If I lived closer I'd buy her, I'm even tempted to get a delivery firm in to pick her up and bring her here this week! Yes, I'm crazy, but I think with my heart n not my head!! I don't compete so a horse is a horse to me, whatever it looks like!
		
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Do it bumblelion - go and buy her!  

The rest of you "experts" must be very clever and know so much about horses to be able to conclude all confirmation flaws by a badly taken photograph that was taken from such a terrible angle.  That mare has a lovely face and clearly, the rider is far to heavy for her when she has serious lack of condition.


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## Trot_On_Dressage (8 November 2011)

Oh dear lord! Calm down everyone. 

I am not vile thank you, you do not even know me. You are acting as if i have abused this horse. All i was saying is that it isnt a very good example of a breed. Nothing else! 

I forgot everyone on here takes life too seriously!


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## FionaM12 (8 November 2011)

brucea said:



			Look closely at the stances of these horses, look at the feet.
		
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Only just noticed this post. What about her feet and stance Brucea? Other than that she's standing in a load of poo. 

Really, you do wonder why anyone would use such a picture. 

If I was going to sell Mollie, would I think, "Now where's that photo of her with no saddle, a scruffy rider too big for her, stood on a slope in a pile of cr@p?"? I don't think so....


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## FionaM12 (8 November 2011)

Trot_On_Dressage said:



			you do not even know me. 

I forgot everyone on here takes life too seriously!
		
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How can you say that? You don't even know us.


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## glenruby (8 November 2011)

I actually would doubt if it is 5 - looks like a much younger animal. Also would be more concerned aou the lemon skewald cob who has the classic stance of a horse with a left forelimb (and possibly bilateral) lameness.


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## Dancing Queen (8 November 2011)

Looks younger than 5, neck looks quite poor, but belly huge.
Horse looks sad TBH.
Could be quite a sweet little mare with some TLC. XX


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## Jesstickle (8 November 2011)

I'd happily take a punt on her if I hadn't already got all the horses I could possibly cope with. I think she'd probably turn into a nice little horse. Plus I'm a softy for chestnuts


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## MerrySherryRider (8 November 2011)

Looking at the picture all I can see is a sweet, sad little horse and if its seen its 5th birthday, I'll eat my hat. 
Trader can't be bothered to advertise the horse well enough to give it a chance, seems to be aiming for the 'knows-nothing-but-just-want-a-cheap-horse market.
 Not funny at all, its just a shame.


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## Horsesgalore (8 November 2011)

Trot_On_Dressage said:



			All i was saying is that it isnt a very good example of a breed. Nothing else!
		
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REALLY?! So you weren't laughing at the unfortunate animal then? What about:



Trot_On_Dressage said:



			just having a chuckle at it, thats all! Sorry if that isnt very pc but there you go!
		
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Trot_On_Dressage said:



			Sorry i am being mean but it has the worst confirmation i have seen for a long time! 

To be even meaner.... it actually made me laugh out loud!
		
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Trot_On_Dressage said:



			i do also laugh at my neighbours dog who is a mongrel with a normal sized dogs body with the smallest stumpiest legs you have ever seen.  

Just having some light hearted fun!
		
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## Alfiem (8 November 2011)

I can beat you all for an ugly horse :  here is Alfie!! He really is "all spare parts" BUT he's honest, genuine and fun and although lots of people will laugh at him, he will be a safe teenager's pony or ideal mum daughter type - as long as they're not into showing of course!


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## JFTDWS (8 November 2011)

Hmm, imho, the photographer should be shot.  The horse lacks condition but it's impossible to judge her conformation from such a terrible photo - she might well be fine.  But what strikes me most of all is the possibility that she's considerably younger than 5.  I don't know the dealer but it's not unheard of for passports to become "muddled"...  If I were looking for such an animal (or rather, if I had 2 more acres) I would be willing to pop down for a look for that sort of money...

I was amused by the initial post - I thought the girl's riding attire was quite amusing.  I don't find poorly put together animals amusing.  I find it makes me want to hunt down their breeders and maim them


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## Horsesgalore (8 November 2011)

I don't think Alfie's ugly!  I'd have him in a heartbeat!

I don't think the mare in the ad's ugly either, just a bit poor and in need of love and care. And, as someone else said, stood in a pile of poo.


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## Dancing Queen (8 November 2011)

Alfie is lovely!!


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## Jazzy B (8 November 2011)

Alfie looks like his grinning and could be very cheeky!!! 

Please someone on this forum who has lots of extra cash please buy sad little chestnut mare and make her grin too!!!


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## JFTDWS (8 November 2011)

Dancing Queen said:



			Alfie is lovely!!
		
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Indeed, I don't see the problem with him.  Or Rhino's horse, tbh, or Nitty, or BH - not the best photo of the latter, but he looks great now, exemplifying nicely how deceptive a photo can be...


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## Dancing Queen (8 November 2011)

JFTD said:



			Indeed, I don't see the problem with him.  Or Rhino's horse, tbh, or Nitty, or BH - not the best photo of the latter, but he looks great now, exemplifying nicely how deceptive a photo can be...
		
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TBH perhaps im a big softie, but i love all horses - having been around them for 30 years I havent come across one yet that i havent taken to (some took a little bit longer than others). They are all lovely in their own way! x


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## shadowboy (8 November 2011)

\does this dealer not own any tack? Can none of the horses stand 4 square, or be 'ridden'?


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## rockysmum (8 November 2011)

Just a random thought, but dont you think this shows the people who actually love horses, any horses. 

When I look at a horse I dont really see its confirmation faults, unless I have a reason to look.  I will go up and give it a stroke, talk to it and make friends, I dont give a damm what it looks like.  In fact its usually the ugly ones I like as they appear to have character.

Of course if I was buying or looking at the for a particular job it would be different.

I just couldn't laugh at an unfortunate animal.

I do get mad as hell at the state some owners get them into though.


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## juliag (8 November 2011)

Back to the original horse and yes i think Alfie is lovely too! My first thoughts were ah she is gorgeous, all she needs is some TLC and lots of love ...... and food!!!! For that price it would be great to just send someone to collect her, to see the before and after photos in both 3/6 and 12 months would be fantastic! And no , sorry. I cant laught at the horses that dont seem to have a lot going for them either. I wonder if a certain person on here may have been the school bully???


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## JFTDWS (8 November 2011)

Dancing Queen said:



			TBH perhaps im a big softie, but i love all horses - having been around them for 30 years I havent come across one yet that i havent taken to (some took a little bit longer than others). They are all lovely in their own way! x
		
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It's the owners I don't like  I dislike how many horses are kept (obese / underworked / etc) and I seriously object to the indescriminate breeding that goes on, but I would never take that out on the horse - once it's been bred, it deserves to be looked after and appreciated for the individual it is - not mocked on a forum because some twit took an awful photo of it. I'm clearly just as bad a softie - I'm sitting here thinking "nice little fast tb type would be just the ticket for horseball in a few years..." - CANNOT have another...  

To each the favourite of his heart / to each his chosen breed / in gig and saddle, plough and cart / to serve his separate need

x


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## FionaM12 (8 November 2011)

rockysmum said:



			Just a random thought, but dont you think this shows the people who actually love horses, any horses. 

When I look at a horse I dont really see its confirmation faults, unless I have a reason to look.  I will go up and give it a stroke, talk to it and make friends, I dont give a damm what it looks like.  In fact its usually the ugly ones I like as they appear to have character.

Of course if I was buying or looking at the for a particular job it would be different.

I just couldn't laugh at an unfortunate animal.

I do get mad as hell at the state some owners get them into though.
		
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I think you've got something there. There are some "horsey" people who see it all as competitive sport only, IMHO. A horse is desirable if it might win prizes, of no interest or laughable if it never will. Personally, I tend to love the quirky ones who've been dealt a poor hand most.

I'm NOT saying all people who compete are callous. There are lots of true horse lovers who enjoy competing but aren't horse snobs.


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## Jesstickle (8 November 2011)

JFTD said:



			Indeed, I don't see the problem with him.  Or Rhino's horse, tbh, or Nitty, or BH - not the best photo of the latter, but he looks great now, exemplifying nicely how deceptive a photo can be...
		
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Ugly wasn't he?! I have lots of him at this stage in his life and he looks this ropey in all of them. But, just like this little mare, he had potential. I don't think it is difficult to see that she isn't the finished article. Shame that some people can be quite so short sighted and put so much on how a horse looks (btw, not claiming BH is in any way the finished article, just that he looks a bit better than he did!)


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## sakaspuds (8 November 2011)

juliag said:



			Back to the original horse and yes i think Alfie is lovely too! My first thoughts were ah she is gorgeous, all she needs is some TLC and lots of love ...... and food!!!! For that price it would be great to just send someone to collect her, to see the before and after photos in both 3/6 and 12 months would be fantastic! And no , sorry. I cant laught at the horses that dont seem to have a lot going for them either. I wonder if a certain person on here may have been the school bully??? 

Click to expand...

Bet she is a barrel of laughs up the yard..  (OP I mean)


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## Horsesgalore (8 November 2011)

sakaspuds said:



			Bet she is a barrel of laughs up the yard..  (OP I mean)
		
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Now be fair, I'm sure she's great fun as long as there are plenty of neglected horses about to keep her laughing.


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## JFTDWS (8 November 2011)

jesstickle said:



			Ugly wasn't he?! I have lots of him at this stage in his life and he looks this ropey in all of them. But, just like this little mare, he had potential. I don't think it is difficult to see that she isn't the finished article. Shame that some people can be quite so short sighted and put so much on how a horse looks (btw, not claiming BH is in any way the finished article, just that he looks a bit better than he did!)
		
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Interesting - I'm not sure I would have seen the horse BH seems to be now in him then if that photo is representative - but clearly that would have been my failing (and due to the fact that I'm not used to looking critically at horses like him - give me a native or a cob and I can see it, real horses tend to look the same to me  ).  All credit to you, there.  But I wouldn't have written him off as hopeless either - just as I don't think this mare should be dismissed either


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## juliag (8 November 2011)

sakaspuds said:



			Bet she is a barrel of laughs up the yard..  (OP I mean)
		
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umm yes, I am sure her horse is gob smackingly beautiful though and  with perfect confirmation .....LOL


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## Alfiem (8 November 2011)

Poor little mare - it's her type that I tend to end up buying! And they look very different once given some TLC and some work to build up the right muscles. Alfie is a bit "odd" looking he's goose rumped and his legs are a bit stumpy, and his neck is a bit upside down, but I have been playing around with him and working him and he's actually turning out O.K! When it comes to selling him, I will use the correct tack and turnout for pics and make the best of his good points - unlike the poor little mare in the pic


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## Jesstickle (8 November 2011)

JFTD said:



			Interesting - I'm not sure I would have seen the horse BH seems to be now in him then if that photo is representative - but clearly that would have been my failing (and due to the fact that I'm not used to looking critically at horses like him - give me a native or a cob and I can see it, real horses tend to look the same to me  ).  All credit to you, there.  But I wouldn't have written him off as hopeless either - just as I don't think this mare should be dismissed either 

Click to expand...

For your delectation my duck  ETS: And these are after I clipped his face and pulled his mane! You should have seen him before 



















And just because I like this one (even though he is going like a giraffe and goes much better now)








Sorry to go off topic all!


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## Spring Feather (8 November 2011)

rockysmum said:



			Just a random thought, but dont you think this shows the people who actually love horses, any horses. 

When I look at a horse I dont really see its confirmation faults, unless I have a reason to look.
		
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Oh I can't help myself.  I judge conformation on every horse I ever come across and within minutes of meeting it.  If you think that's bad you may want to close your ears to what I'm about to say.  Almost the moment any of my foals are born I scrutinise their conformation.  It's just something I do automatically I'm afraid and when I do spot a glaring conformation fault I honestly cannot move my eyes away from it and every time I see that horse/foal the fault jumps out at me!


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## Alfiem (8 November 2011)

jesstickle said:



			For your delectation my duck  ETS: And these are after I clipped his face and pulled his mane! You should have seen him before 



















And just because I like this one (even though he is going like a giraffe and goes much better now)








Sorry to go off topic all!
		
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Well I think he's nice! Looks atheletic and nice to ride!


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## JFTDWS (8 November 2011)

I like the first one - he looks really kind and sweet.  He looks like a hairy bear in the second and I love the giraffe-photo as he looks really well and shiny and happy  (didn't REM have a song - shiny happy knobbers trotting round or something?)

And that is my professional and highly critical opinion.

(Professional muppet, that is)


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## Alfiem (8 November 2011)

Spring Feather said:



			Oh I can't help myself.  I judge conformation on every horse I ever come across and within minutes of meeting it.  If you think that's bad you may want to close your ears to what I'm about to say.  Almost the moment any of my foals are born I scrutinise their conformation.  It's just something I do automatically I'm afraid and when I do spot a glaring conformation fault I honestly cannot move my eyes away from it and every time I see that horse/foal the fault jumps out at me!
		
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I am a bit like that too - but I keep my mouth shut about other people's horses!!  I am always picking faults with my own animals, none of them are perfect, but all are capable of doing a job - even Alfie!

The thing that springs out at me the most about a horse is the eyes, if they have a nice, kind eye I can forgive a minor conformation fault, my old mare was pigeon toed but never a day lame in her life!


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## JFTDWS (8 November 2011)

Spring Feather said:



			Oh I can't help myself.  I judge conformation on every horse I ever come across and within minutes of meeting it.  If you think that's bad you may want to close your ears to what I'm about to say.  Almost the moment any of my foals are born I scrutinise their conformation.  It's just something I do automatically I'm afraid and when I do spot a glaring conformation fault I honestly cannot move my eyes away from it and every time I see that horse/foal the fault jumps out at me!
		
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I think that's sensible if you're in the business of breeding - I think you can only breed successfully if you're totally honest about your horses and their (heritable) strengths and weaknesses and plan a sensible strategy from that analysis.

But please, if you ever stumble across photos of any of mine, please don't share your thoughts - they're geldings so no risk of me breeding anything horrible and I believe (rightly or wrongly, probably the latter) that they are perfection itself.


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## JFTDWS (8 November 2011)

Alfiem said:



			The thing that springs out at me the most about a horse is the eyes, if they have a nice, kind eye I can forgive a minor conformation fault, my old mare was pigeon toed but never a day lame in her life!
		
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Seconded, the cob in my avatar is cow hocked, but he's the kindest, most honest, bravest, best horse in the world and I wouldn't change him for ANYTHING.

love is blind 

(he's cow hocked perfection, by the way - I'm not contradicting my previous post, honest!)


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## Meowy Catkin (8 November 2011)

I just want to show how that photo does the mare no favours at all.








With my amazing (  ) 'Paint' skills, I have put a nice eyecatching red line in. This shows how the hindquarters are closer to the camera than the front of the horse is. This gives the optical illusion of making her confo look far worse than it actually is.

I personally like to see horses 'in the flesh' and see them move.

Most horses do not have perfect conformation and many that have a proper conformation fault still make useful horses. At the RDA where I used to ride, they had a horse that was over at the knee, but he was quiet and safe. Yes, he did undemanding work (mostly walking) but he was brilliant at it and was sound the whole time that I knew him. 

This mare could make someone a lovely horse, I really hope that she finds a kind new owner.


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## Trot_On_Dressage (8 November 2011)

Horsesgalore said:



			Now be fair, I'm sure she's great fun as long as there are plenty of neglected horses about to keep her laughing.
		
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Excuse me i was not laughing at neglected horses! I would not laugh at a poor animal in pain or that what was under fed 

I am great fun thanks but i do not have to justify myself to you.


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## Pearlsasinger (8 November 2011)

FionaM12 said:



			I think you've got something there. There are some "horsey" people who see it all as competitive sport only, IMHO. A horse is desirable if it might win prizes, of no interest or laughable if it never will. Personally, I tend to love the quirky ones who've been dealt a poor hand most.

I'm NOT saying all people who compete are callous. There are lots of true horse lovers who enjoy competing but aren't horse snobs.
		
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Some people will also take any opportunity to air their knowledge (what little they have) in order to make themselves look good.
It doesn't always work though!


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## rockysmum (8 November 2011)

I will give OP something to laugh about.

Here is my old boy, every confirmation fault known to man, but I adore him.

He will be 36 soon and still going strong, never had a day lame in the 30 years I have owned him.

Will admit he was only 34 in this pic.


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## Spring Feather (8 November 2011)

JFTD said:



			But please, if you ever stumble across photos of any of mine, please don't share your thoughts - they're geldings so no risk of me breeding anything horrible and I believe (rightly or wrongly, probably the latter) that they are perfection itself. 

Click to expand...

Have no fear.  My tongue is ragged and only half the length it used to be and my teeth are almost blunt


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## JFTDWS (8 November 2011)

I was really confused by the colour genetics website there, Faracat! 

SF - that sounds unpleasant - is it the result of some awful mouth conformation problem


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## FionaM12 (8 November 2011)

rockysmum said:



			I will give OP something to laugh about.

Here is my old boy, every confirmation fault known to man, but I adore him.

He will be 36 soon and still going strong, never had a day lame in the 30 years I have owned him.

Will admit he was only 34 in this pic.






Click to expand...

He's *34* in that photo?  Wow.


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## Meowy Catkin (8 November 2011)

Sorry, I messed up the link! I did try to fix it quick - hoping that no-one would notice!

Drat, another failure.


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## rhino (8 November 2011)

rockysmum said:








Click to expand...

What a gorgeous, noble head he has, and looking AMAZING for his age - he is a real credit to you


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## Spudlet (8 November 2011)

Horse looking poor, with what appears to be a bottom end dealer coming into winter and being sold for peanuts, relatively speaking....

Yeah, hilarious.


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## Spring Feather (8 November 2011)

JFTD said:



			SF - that sounds unpleasant - is it the result of some awful mouth conformation problem 



Click to expand...

(((splutter)))


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## JFTDWS (8 November 2011)

Faracat said:



			Sorry, I messed up the link! I did try to fix it quick - hoping that no-one would notice!

Drat, another failure. 

Click to expand...

Noooo, I didn't see nufink, honest!


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## Horsesgalore (8 November 2011)

Trot_On_Dressage said:



			Excuse me i was not laughing at neglected horses! I would not laugh at a poor animal in pain or that what was under fed 

I am great fun thanks but i do not have to justify myself to you.
		
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No, of course you don't. However, as for not laughing at neglected horses, I would politely refer you to my post on page 8 of this thread.


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## Meowy Catkin (8 November 2011)

JFTD said:



			Noooo, I didn't see nufink, honest! 

Click to expand...

Phew!


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## rockysmum (8 November 2011)

FionaM12 said:



			He's *34* in that photo?  Wow.
		
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Actually he might have been 33, not sure exactly which show that was




rhino said:



			What a gorgeous, noble head he has, and looking AMAZING for his age - he is a real credit to you 

Click to expand...

Thank you

Just to show how the camera can lie, this is him the same day.  Apologies for the strop he was having at the time.  He objects to veteran classes as he is not allowed to show off his gallop


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## ruby1512 (8 November 2011)

Poor little horse, I don't find that picture remotely amusing I find it quite sad.


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## Ravenwood (8 November 2011)

Going back to the original post I see a fantastic opportunity for before and after pics 

Actually looking at her, she has a fabulous bum, nice shoulder and I reckon she will make a lovely little horse for someone who is looking for a long term project.  Bargain


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## smellsofhorse (9 November 2011)

Pictures can tell a thousand lies!
The way the rider is sat makes the horse look down hill!
Yes poor condition, no muscle etc etc.
But the prise reflects this.
She could make a lovely horse to the right person to bring on.


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## Circe (9 November 2011)

I like to critique the conformation of horses I see...I don't tell anyone my opinions, I just like 'judging' them in my head. I used
 to love showing when I was 
younger in the uk.  
I don't laugh at their faults, I believe there are very few horses that have 100% conformation. It's up to us riders and owners to make the best of it we can. 
If that little mare was in Sydney, I'd go look at her. I don't think she's 5, and I think she might grow into herself. 
I'd also want to decide looking at her in the flesh if I thought that decent farrier, feed & work could improve her. 
Kx


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## cassie summers (9 November 2011)

glenruby said:



			I actually would doubt if it is 5 - looks like a much younger animal. Also would be more concerned aou the lemon skewald cob who has the classic stance of a horse with a left forelimb (and possibly bilateral) lameness.
		
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its funny you should say that (not funny haha) but i had said to my freind as i am looking for another mare to keep mine company that i had seen a sweet lemon and white cob but i was worried about the way it was standing didnt look quite right but we are going to go and have a look on the weekend so will report back thats if they dont read our posts and bash me up lol i called for directions but he had a very strong irish accent


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## elsielouise (9 November 2011)

This thread has annoyed me. Don't know why as I don't even bother to usually read this kind of thing. BUT having spent much of yesterday moving around very expensive foals belonging to someone else my trailer is currently hitched in my yard. I have a spare few hundred quid and a few acres extra. If anyone genuinely knows the inside info on this dealer as unbiased as possible plus location (I think I am about half an hours drive away).

I may give them a ring this morning. Me and my vet friend are moving another horse out this morning so she'll be with me in the car and we could take a trip over.......


Don't even like TBs  or gingers... but you know what...

Please PM me a phone number to give you a ring if you know anything I should know. I dont have time to trawl threads this morning and LO will be up soon (plus OH is out the country for the day LOL!)


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## Jazzy B (9 November 2011)

top girl elsielouise!!! , go and get her I would, if I had a few acres and a few hundred quid spare.


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## MerrySherryRider (9 November 2011)

margerita11 said:



			top girl elsielouise!!! , go and get her I would, if I had a few acres and a few hundred quid spare.
		
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Top girl indeed.


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## bumblelion (9 November 2011)

Elsielouise- good on u! I was going to ring up today and go and see her but your much close than me!! Let us know how it goes


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## Megibo (9 November 2011)

I saw this whilst at college yesterday and thought poor girl, how sad...

I also wondered if someone would post it on the forum! I hope someone does get  her, always said we wouldn't pity buy but we saw this wee chap flagged up on here as a freebie and as he was close and we had room...






she looks like a nice project, maybe


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## Amymay (9 November 2011)

elsielouise said:



			This thread has annoyed me. Don't know why as I don't even bother to usually read this kind of thing. BUT having spent much of yesterday moving around very expensive foals belonging to someone else my trailer is currently hitched in my yard. I have a spare few hundred quid and a few acres extra. If anyone genuinely knows the inside info on this dealer as unbiased as possible plus location (I think I am about half an hours drive away).

I may give them a ring this morning. Me and my vet friend are moving another horse out this morning so she'll be with me in the car and we could take a trip over.......


Don't even like TBs  or gingers... but you know what...

Please PM me a phone number to give you a ring if you know anything I should know. I dont have time to trawl threads this morning and LO will be up soon (plus OH is out the country for the day LOL!)
		
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elsielouise - let us know what you do.

Little horse looks like it needs a good home.


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## mwill (9 November 2011)

Just to give you the heads up this dealer is Tom Bonner from Dartford. He is also known as paddy tom to some. I am not going to comment as I know of people who have had good and very bad out of there. The horse wander around without leadropes Around the yard, most have very bad visible injuries. I have watched these


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## Sheep (9 November 2011)

Stories on H&H relating to this dealer.


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## mwill (9 November 2011)

People load horses onto a lorry by coming at them with a tractor and physically pushing them on, no word of a lie. I have friends who have purchased horses and have to be put down the next day, and have also known someone to but one and it has turned into a grade A! Make you own minds up. Google the name too.


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## mwill (9 November 2011)

Sorry my two threads are suppose to go on from each other! My I phone is very sensitive!


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## Amymay (9 November 2011)

Bye, bye to this post then...................


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## mwill (9 November 2011)

Sorry I thought that as the advert is placed at the top it is obvious who it is?


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## Amymay (9 November 2011)

mwill said:



			Sorry I thought that as the advert is placed at the top it is obvious who it is?
		
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It's the other comments that you have made which will probably result in the post being pulled.

Hey ho.  Shame - little horse deserves a chance.


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## brucea (9 November 2011)

FionaM12 said:



			Only just noticed this post. What about her feet and stance Brucea? Other than that she's standing in a load of poo. 

Really, you do wonder why anyone would use such a picture. 

If I was going to sell Mollie, would I think, "Now where's that photo of her with no saddle, a scruffy rider too big for her, stood on a slope in a pile of cr@p?"? I don't think so....
		
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I was looking at this and the other pictures. There are a few where the horses are standing back over their toes - so their weight was not on the midline of the hooves - may just have been the way they were standing not square - but I always regard this as  indicative of underdeveloped heels, heel pain. And on one picture the feet looked a bit long and under run.

Not really presented at their best are they?

Ugly horses? Never judge a book by it's cover.

I know a few ugly horses that have turned out to be absolutely tremendous companions and friends to their owners and have worked beautifully once given a chance.

One such cob had all the faults int he book, was as ugly as they come with a big old fashioned coffin shaped head. She went on to be best friend to a disabled rider and they have a wonderful relationship.


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## FionaM12 (9 November 2011)

brucea said:



			Ugly horses? Never judge a book by it's cover.

One such cob had all the faults in the book, was as ugly as they come with a big old fashioned coffin shaped head. She went on to be best friend to a disabled rider and they have a wonderful relationship.
		
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 Nice story.


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## sjmcc (9 November 2011)

i think the photo is took from a bit of a wrong angle she;s probably a lovely little mare theres no need to take the p....s out of it and if you look at the others theyr selling theyr not great photos . i have show cob yes his confo is good and is remarked upon but if i didnt want to show and just wanted a hack id not realy give a hoot to much about it not every one wants the primadonna so lighten up some folk are that far up there own bums about there horses they should be reported missing


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## Archangel (9 November 2011)

elsielouise did you get the number?

I hope you decide to get her.  She looks so sad poor girl.


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## Ibblebibble (9 November 2011)

seem H&H have reported on him themselves previously
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/397/180377.html

hope the little mare and all the others in his care find loving homes


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## sjmcc (9 November 2011)

bloody hell fire if thats the right name thats been posted on this thread about this mare the dealer has been fined by tradeing standards for selling old horses as to be younger


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## Tinypony (9 November 2011)

FGS, read the post at the top re dealer discussions.


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## lula (9 November 2011)

My initial thought too looking at the photo was that i wouldnt die of shock if someone told me it was 3. 
Hard to tell without looking in its mouth but if it is 5 its one of the greenest looking 5 year olds Ive ever seen.

Poor thing.


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## KVH (9 November 2011)

Ah, he strikes again.
You buy this poor little mare and he will use the money to buy a whole load more just like this.


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## elsielouise (9 November 2011)

RebelRebel said:



			elsielouise did you get the number?

I hope you decide to get her.  She looks so sad poor girl.
		
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Hi

Can you believe I have been offered three horses this morning through PMs already. I am somewhat concerned tbh about perpetuating this kind of breeding and dealing (given some of the feedback I have had) but am speaking with my OH and vet this pm. I REALLY want an ancient hunting schoolmaster or LWVTB younger model and this SO isnt it but.. we will see. Will let you know outcome. Trailer still hitched!


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## Tinypony (9 November 2011)

I have a friend in Staffordshire who rehabs ex racers and failed racers for just that purpose.  So if you don't find anything, feel free to pm me.


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## Andalusianlover (9 November 2011)

BellaBee said:



			Probably not what everyone is gasping about, but does it look like the rider has, er, ripped their jodhpurs? 

Click to expand...

She's wearing a pair of shorts!


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## FionaM12 (9 November 2011)

sjmcc said:



			some folk are that far up their own bums about their horses they should be reported missing
		
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*snorts*


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## brucea (9 November 2011)

Andalusianlover said:



			She's wearing a pair of shorts!
		
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Or she likes to ride in her underpants and wellies!


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## Twiglet (9 November 2011)

Re: the OP making snap judgements on 'one bad photo'....most of you have commented on what a 'sweet' horse she'll make and how she would be a nice project - equally, how can you know that? She's obviously underfed and neglected - she could turn out to be a total cowbag/riddled with problems once she's got some condition on her. And I don't think her eye is 'kind' so much as totally miserable. 

It works both ways. 

FWIW I think it's bloody sad, but not at all surprising from that dealer.


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## Merry Crisis (9 November 2011)

It seems to me that the OP Trot_On_Dressage has done this poor little mare a huge favour by bringing her to everyones notice. I hope she does find a good home through this thread.


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## Archangel (9 November 2011)

elsielouise said:



			Hi

Can you believe I have been offered three horses this morning through PMs already.
		
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I can believe it, such hard times for everyone.

I am sure if you took her she would be replaced by 3 more but worth a look (go on go on go on go on ).   It is odd that her tail appears fairly brushed out and tidy at the bottom yet the rest of her is a bit unkempt.  She has indeed fallen on hard times. 

With all the people looking at this forum, I wonder that no one recognises her (or any others that get posted).


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## Trot_On_Dressage (9 November 2011)

Is it safe to come out get? ****Pokes head up from under the bed****

How dare i look at a horse and judge it on the way it looks. Tut tut. I do wonder how the showing world would function if the judges were not allowed to critique a horses conformation. "Red rossettes all round everyone."

All i am suggesting is that there should be at least some standards in the way horses are bred. I am not abusing this horse although some of you are acting as if i have posted pictures of me poking this horse with a stick! 

Anyway, Lionman is right. I doubt she would have found a home so quick if i hadnt alerted you all to her. I am sure the dealer must be wondering why his advert has had so many views! Maybe this is a business idea ......mmmm lets see if i can find some more......................


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## rhino (9 November 2011)

Trot_On_Dressage said:



			I do wonder how the showing world would function if the judges were not allowed to critique a horses conformation. "Red rossettes all round everyone."

* Except you choose to enter a showing competition and expect to be judged, by someone who hopefully has the experience and knowledge to do so effectively. *

All i am suggesting is that there should be at least some standards in the way horses are bred.  

* Are you? I must have missed that, please point me to where you discussed breeding in any way?  *

Click to expand...

I don't honestly believe you posted this as a warning about overbreeding/breeding from unsuitable stock. Not for a minute...


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## Trot_On_Dressage (9 November 2011)

I posted it as i was shocked by its appearance, hence the shocked symbol!


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## Sheep (9 November 2011)

Trot_On_Dressage said:



			I posted it as i was shocked by its appearance, hence the shocked symbol!
		
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I'm not gonna start on you (I think a lot of people already have done that!) but you did remark on a number of occasions that you posted it because you thought it was funny.


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## jsr (9 November 2011)

*elsielouise*  Last year I did a similar and stupid thing like you are intending. Bought a £200 6 year old TB a day away from the meat man, raced, thrown out and left in a field for 6 months. I only kept her for a few months as I knew she wasn't the horse for me and she went on loan to a 16 year old girl ...4 months later I get a phone call begging for me to sell her to her which I agreed to do at the price I bought her for. 

This is the horse the day she came to us:







She's now being hacked out, doing schooling...and...







Showing off what the 'old nag' is really capable of!!

So good luck and look forward to hearing about her.


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## rhino (9 November 2011)

Trot_On_Dressage said:



			I posted it as i was shocked by its appearance, hence the shocked symbol!
		
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I think you have been quite lucky then, there are hundreds, probably thousands of horses in this country in a far worse state than this little mare. 

jsr - well done  I wish I had taken some pictures of my YO's latest project, looked far worse than the mare in the OP only a few months ago, and now - wow she looks beautiful, and is proving herself to be a classy riding horse (another ex racer)

ETA I am not, *not* going to visit a localish farm to look at the stock they are getting rid of. Elderly breeder died leaving a huge number of (quality, well bred) youngstock which need to find homes asap. For far less than the horse in the OP incidentally. I am NOT going. *repeats to self* Well, just _visiting_ wouldn't hurt, would it?


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## Trot_On_Dressage (9 November 2011)

Well it was so shocking it was a laugh out loud i cant believe my eyes type laugh.

If you go back to my previous post i did say poor little thing. 

I dont think i should be hung drawn and quartered for saying a horse looked less than perfect.


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## Trot_On_Dressage (9 November 2011)

rhino said:



			I think you have been quite lucky then, there are hundreds, probably thousands of horses in this country in a far worse state than this little mare.
		
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I guess i am but i do tend to buy quality horses.


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## Horsesgalore (9 November 2011)

Trot_On_Dressage said:



			I posted it as i was shocked by its appearance, hence the shocked symbol!
		
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REALLY? 



Trot_On_Dressage said:



			it was so shocking it was a laugh out loud i cant believe my eyes type laugh.
		
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So, it wasn't a chuckle, a laugh out loud, or having light hearted fun? 



Trot_On_Dressage said:



			To be even meaner.... it actually made me laugh out loud!
		
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Trot_On_Dressage said:



			I was just having a chuckle at it, thats all!
		
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Trot_On_Dressage said:



			Just having some light hearted fun!
		
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rhino said:



			I don't honestly believe you posted this as a warning about overbreeding/breeding from unsuitable stock. Not for a minute...
		
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Quite.


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## Meowy Catkin (9 November 2011)

Trot_On_Dressage said:



			I guess i am but i do tend to buy quality horses.
		
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Blimey. Keep digging T_O_D.


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## FionaM12 (9 November 2011)

Faracat said:



			Blimey. Keep digging T_O_D.
		
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It's a bit daft to keep denying you said stuff which we can all go back and see for ourselves OP (even without Horsesgalore's amusing reminders). I'd not bother if I were you.


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## Meowy Catkin (9 November 2011)

I hope that this mare finds a nice home and turns out to be someone's best friend for many years to come.

Ex-racers often make good hacks and you don't need perfect confo to do that job (plus I still maintain that the photo makes her look worse than she is).


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## rhino (9 November 2011)

Well, at least we know that, OP posted because:

(a) she wanted us to join in on laughing at a horse because she considers it to  have terrible conformation, and isn't the type of 'quality' horse she buys.
or
(b) she was shocked by the poor condition and conformation of an advertised horse.
or
(c) she wanted to make us all aware of the problems of overbreeding and breeding from substandard horses in this country.

Or maybe there was another reason.....


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## Trot_On_Dressage (9 November 2011)

At no point have i denied i said i laughed out loud at this little horse! I did, i do not deny it. I do think you have all blown this out of proportion tho but that is what goes on here. I should have known better than to post it but i did and i stand by it. 

I am fed up of people labelling you as cruel if you happen to say a bad word about a horse. How ridiculous. It is a free world for me to be able to say that the little horse is shoddy looking, it does not mean i am cruel for saying such things, its the truth! So sorry i like to buy and own quality horses that are well bred and have good confirmation. Thought that was the point of breeding horses. But in fluffy bunny world....................


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## MerrySherryRider (9 November 2011)

Trot_On_Dressage said:



			At no point have i denied i said i laughed out loud at this little horse! I did, i do not deny it. I do think you have all blown this out of proportion tho but that is what goes on here. I should have known better than to post it but i did and i stand by it. 

I am fed up of people labelling you as cruel if you happen to say a bad word about a horse. How ridiculous. It is a free world for me to be able to say that the little horse is shoddy looking, it does not mean i am cruel for saying such things, its the truth! So sorry i like to buy and own quality horses that are well bred and have good confirmation. Thought that was the point of breeding horses. But in fluffy bunny world....................
		
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Laughing at a horse that has fallen on hard times is cruel. Yes, many of us appreciate quality horses but still doesn't mean we enjoy humiliating a horse down on its luck.
Don't try and find a moral high ground because there isn't one.


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## jsr (9 November 2011)

Well it's lucky for those of us who couldn't give 2 figs about a horses breeding or care if it's conformation isn't what the book tells us it should be cos otherwise we'd have a hard time finding a horse we could afford.  

The OP is the worse kind of horse snob and the person I avoid like the plague in the horse world..thank goodness there are many of us who love our horses come what may and can see past a bad picture and a dirty coat. 

You trot on love on your fabulous horse and I'm sure the rest of us will enjoy our cheap badly put together freaks and laugh at your shallow attitude. 

Now't 'fluffy' about giving a horse a chance and showing a kind open attitude but you live in your guilded castle and surround yourself with perfection, I'm sure it works fine for you.


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## FionaM12 (9 November 2011)

Trot_on_Snobbery, I can see that you don't understand why people were upset. Of course no-one thinks it's a good thing that horses with very poor confOrmation are bred, but we don't want to mock the resulting animals.



Trot_On_Dressage said:



			Sorry i am being mean.

To be even meaner....
		
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Like you yourself say, your post was mean. You might think it's "fluffy bunny" of people, but most of us don't like meanness.


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## Amymay (9 November 2011)

It's conformation, OP. And I expect this little horse is rather more well bred than you'd imagine.

Not of course that any of that matters. Think of her tonight, and then think about your own horses, and what a different night they're probably having.


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## juliag (9 November 2011)

Trot_On_Dressage said:



			Is it safe to come out get? ****Pokes head up from under the bed****

How dare i look at a horse and judge it on the way it looks. Tut tut. I do wonder how the showing world would function if the judges were not allowed to critique a horses conformation. "Red rossettes all round everyone."

All i am suggesting is that there should be at least some standards in the way horses are bred. I am not abusing this horse although some of you are acting as if i have posted pictures of me poking this horse with a stick! 

Anyway, Lionman is right. I doubt she would have found a home so quick if i hadnt alerted you all to her. I am sure the dealer must be wondering why his advert has had so many views! Maybe this is a business idea ......mmmm lets see if i can find some more......................
		
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Mau I quietly suggest you pop back under your bed as i dont think the time is right for you to pop back up yet. lol
I also like a well bred horse with nice confirmation but what do you think they would look like if neglected, underfed and not muscled up? Good confirmation isnt necessarily a given thing. The right sort of work, feeding for topline etc. This little mare could look a million dollars in 6 months time. The one thing I do agree with is that she now has a fair bit of publicity...... do you work for the dealer by any chance? Is this some sort of publicity? Poss planning an influx of potential buyers to the yard?? IN fact...... Are YOU the girl on the horse??? Who knows.... stranger things have happened! lol


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## brighteyes (9 November 2011)

amymay said:



			It's conformation, OP. And I expect this little horse is rather more well bred than you'd imagine.

Not of course that any of that matters. Think of her tonight, and then think about your own horses, and what a different night they're probably having.

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  I will, *amymay* Poor lass.


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## ABC (9 November 2011)

That mare will be lovely if she gets a nice home.

My lad was worse than that, a hell of a lot worse and one year one he is gorgeous to look at and handle (still got some work to be done on the ridden front  ) 

OP, tbh I think you sound really up yourself. Go get a grip, and find something else to laugh at, not the expense of a horse who, maybe doesn't have the best life. Who are you to judge? and comment? Quite frankly, it's nothing to do with you. As someone else said in a thread I read earlier today, everyone judges horses by there own standards. To me my horse is the best. To someone else he might be useless. To you this horse is a joke, to someone else, that horse is a project who will bring them many hours of fun and pleasure.


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## Trot_On_Dressage (9 November 2011)

How do we know it has fallen on hard times? You are presuming that because it is being sold by a dealer. In my honest opinion that horse does not look under fed. Scrawny yes, it neck is pretty thin but its actual weight isnt too bad. I cant see a single rib and its belly is quite round. Its topline that it is lacking not weight. I dont think the RSPCA would think that it looks like it has fallen on hard times. If it did, i wouldnt mock it. nothing funny in a horse or any animal being neglected  but thats not what i was shocked/lol about. It was more what a terriable put together horse!


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## ABC (9 November 2011)

Trot_On_Dressage said:



			How do we know it has fallen on hard times? You are presuming that because it is being sold by a dealer. In my honest opinion that horse does not look under fed. Scrawny yes, it neck is pretty thin but its actual weight isnt too bad. I cant see a single rib and its belly is quite round. Its topline that it is lacking not weight. I dont think the RSPCA would think that it looks like it has fallen on hard times. If it did, i wouldnt mock it. nothing funny in a horse or any animal being neglected  but thats not what i was shocked/lol about. It was more what a terriable put together horse!
		
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Even if the mare does have terrible conformation then who are you to laugh? 

They're not advertising her as a broodmare so really her conformation doesn't matter.

Most horses have conformation faults, some only minor, some noticeable. Unless you show/compete at a high level, it rarely matters. Seen as the advert isn't saying that she could compete at badminton, or win at HOYS I dont think there's any problem. 

I think it's really pathetic that you're laughing at the way an animal looks tbh. It's really shallow.


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## rockysmum (9 November 2011)

Can I ask the OP one more question




If, as you state, you only buy quality horses, why were you looking in the under £500 cheap horse section!!!!!!!!!!!

Surely someone with your taste would have been looking in the £5,000 plus


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## Capriole (9 November 2011)

cheap horses must be more amusing rockysmum  try the free to good home ads, theyre HILARIOUS


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## cbmcts (9 November 2011)

Trot_On_Dressage said:



			How do we know it has fallen on hard times? You are presuming that because it is being sold by a dealer. In my honest opinion that horse does not look under fed. Scrawny yes, it neck is pretty thin but its actual weight isnt too bad. I cant see a single rib and its belly is quite round. Its topline that it is lacking not weight. I dont think the RSPCA would think that it looks like it has fallen on hard times. If it did, i wouldnt mock it. nothing funny in a horse or any animal being neglected  but thats not what i was shocked/lol about. It was more what a terriable put together horse!
		
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Believe me, any horse on that yard has fallen on hard times. These types of places are the reason that so many on here say PTS if you can't keep your old/ill/problem horse.

I've known some nice horses that have originated from there but while they were cheap to buy they weren't cheap to rehabilitate...however I've known more that didn't work out despite time, money and effort being spent.


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## Goldenstar (9 November 2011)

Sad sad sad that's how I feel when I look at that poor mare it's hard to believe she's five ( although I notice the dealers been done for passport offences and changing horses ages to suit so perhaps she's younger and ......
Guilty I feel guilty as all the horses I have the the quality type with good conformation that OP mentioned  born blessed with everything that makes it easy for a horse to find a good home all of you who take on these poor little horses I salute you and I hope this little waif falls on her hooves in a good spot.
And I worry seriously about the IQ of who every chose to use this picture and let's hope they use some of the money when she's sold to buy the rider some trousers.


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## FionaM12 (9 November 2011)

Trot_On_Dressage said:



			thats not what i was shocked/lol about. It was more what a terriable put together horse!
		
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I don't get it? Why is that funny?  Do you ride round on your "quality" horse roaring with laughter at the ones you consider less good quality?


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## FionaM12 (9 November 2011)

ABC said:



			I think it's really pathetic that you're laughing at the way an animal looks tbh. It's really shallow.
		
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That's about hit the nail on the head.


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## Meowy Catkin (9 November 2011)

nothing funny in a horse or any animal being neglected but thats not what i was shocked/lol about. It was more what a terriable put together horse!
		
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I'm still sticking to my opinion that the photo is so terrible, that it makes her look alot worse (conformation wise) than she probably is in real life. I do hope that the poster who aired an interest in the mare, goes to see her.


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## Amymay (9 November 2011)

By anyone's standard, OP, that mare is poor - and knowing where she is, has indeed fallen on bad times.


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## FionaM12 (9 November 2011)

amymay said:



			By anyone's standard, OP, that mare is poor - and knowing where she is, has indeed fallen on bad times.
		
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I agree, but on the other hand even if she wasn't poor, laughing at her for the way she looks is just as mean-spirited.

Tbh, I don't believe the OP can see that though, she's clearly baffled by the notion of anyone thinking it's not jolly good fun to laugh at poor conformation. I'm sure when she started this thread she expected us all to join the hilarity.


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## ABC (9 November 2011)

FionaM12 said:



			I agree, but on the other hand even if she wasn't poor, laughing at her for the way she looks is just as mean-spirited.
		
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That's what I was trying to get across, but you said it better than me


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## Merry Crisis (9 November 2011)

FionaM12 said:



			I agree, but on the other hand even if she wasn't poor, laughing at her for the way she looks is just as mean-spirited.
		
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Please Fiona, give it a rest, you have made your point, so many times.


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## Frumpoon (9 November 2011)

Trot_On_Dressage said:



			At no point have i denied i said i laughed out loud at this little horse! I did, i do not deny it. I do think you have all blown this out of proportion tho but that is what goes on here. I should have known better than to post it but i did and i stand by it. 

I am fed up of people labelling you as cruel if you happen to say a bad word about a horse. How ridiculous. It is a free world for me to be able to say that the little horse is shoddy looking, it does not mean i am cruel for saying such things, its the truth! So sorry i like to buy and own quality horses that are well bred and have good confirmation. Thought that was the point of breeding horses. But in fluffy bunny world....................
		
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Are you STILL slimeing around with your pathetic opinions.....


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## Spring Feather (9 November 2011)

Trot_On_Dressage said:



			I guess i am but i do tend to buy quality horses.
		
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Do you know the bloodlines of this horse then?  Can you please post them as I would be interested to know them.


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## rockysmum (9 November 2011)

Trot_On_Dressage said:



			But in fluffy bunny world....................
		
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Brilliant - I love it

The second time in my life I have been called a fluffy bunny - must be true then


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## rhino (9 November 2011)

lionman said:



			Please Fiona, give it a rest, you have made your point, so many times. 

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Yes, but the OP seems rather, erm _slow_ to understand anyone else's viewpoint so it may eventually get through!


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## FionaM12 (9 November 2011)

lionman said:



			Please Fiona, give it a rest, you have made your point, so many times. 

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Oo-er, the lion's roaring at me! 

Seriously, I don't think it's up to you to tell any of us to stop posting. Although I do appreciate that you think I've made my point.


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## JFTDWS (9 November 2011)

Trot_On_Dressage said:



			So sorry i like to buy and own quality horses that are well bred and have good confirmation.
		
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I find it hard to believe that someone who cannot differentiate between "confirmation" and "conformation" is capable of identifying a quality, well bred animal.  It's not like your error hasn't been pointed out repeatedly throughout this thread.  

I own two very well bred horses (though I imagine not the type you mean) and one ***** horse - I wouldn't turn my nose up at this little mare, or one like her.  Sure if I was looking for a broodmare I might be more choosy regarding conformation, but for an all purpose riding horse, does it really matter?

And that is assuming that she is as peculiar as she looks in that photo - which she may well not be...

eta - that should be "traveller" horse I think


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## Echo Bravo (9 November 2011)

Looked at the photo, looks like she's on a slight slope and the large lump of lard is sitting right on her withers. I'd buy her as some good feed inside and some nice steady work, she'd make someone a very nice horse.


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## Trot_On_Dressage (9 November 2011)

How do you know i am not dyslexic? I am not, just rubbish at typing.  Must be my big cruel fat fingers hitting the wrong keys.


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## thatsmygirl (9 November 2011)

I agree with the fact it's a bad pic, but could be a nice horse I would give her a chance if I was looking, have a real soft spot for chestnut mares I really do. But the rider being fat!!!! Are you having a laugh!! Not fat at all.


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## ABC (9 November 2011)

Or the fact you're missing the point


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## Horsesgalore (9 November 2011)

lionman said:



			Please Fiona, give it a rest, you have made your point, so many times. 

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 How rude!


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## Merry Crisis (9 November 2011)

FionaM12 said:



			Oo-er, the lion's roaring at me! 

Seriously, I don't think it's up to you to tell any of us to stop posting. Although I do appreciate that you think I've made my point. 

Click to expand...

It was just a kittens hiss!


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## ABC (9 November 2011)

Horsesgalore said:



 How rude!
		
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I dont think it was meant nastily... was it Lionman?


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## Horsesgalore (9 November 2011)

rockysmum said:



			Brilliant - I love it

The second time in my life I have been called a fluffy bunny - must be true then
		
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Something I've noticed in this forum is that as soon as someone seems to feel they're losing an arguement, or can't back up what they're saying, they call people "fluffy bunnies".


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## lula (9 November 2011)

can i just point out to the OP that this is advertised as an ex race horse, therefore it will indeed be well bred.

also, the photo is absolutely appalling and gives it a totally skewed and distorted apperance. 

Give that horse a year with proper work to build up topline and correct feeding and i bet you anything you wouldnt recognise it as the same one.


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## Trot_On_Dressage (9 November 2011)

I am not missing any point. I am allowed to have my own opinions.


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## JFTDWS (9 November 2011)

Trot_On_Dressage said:



			How do you know i am not dyslexic? I am not, just rubbish at typing.  Must be my big cruel fat fingers hitting the wrong keys.
		
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I couldn't care less if you are - dyslexics aren't thick, they have trouble with spelling but they ARE capable of rectifying an error when it's pointed out to them, even if it means double checking before they post.  As are you.  How coincidental that you should repeatedly make the same error, which is very commonly perpetuated by people who are not familiar with the distinction between confirmation into the catholic faith and the conformation of a horse...


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## ABC (9 November 2011)

Trot_On_Dressage said:



			I am not missing any point. I am allowed to have my own opinions.
		
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I agree but from some of your replies it seems like you don't understand where people are coming from/why people think what they think. If I'm wrong I apologise but I dont think I am...


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## Horsesgalore (9 November 2011)

Trot_On_Dressage said:



			I am not missing any point. I am allowed to have my own opinions.
		
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Eh? Who are you talking to?


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## Merry Crisis (9 November 2011)

lula said:



			can i just point out to the OP that this is advertised as an ex race horse, therefore it will indeed be well bred.

also, the photo is absolutely appalling and gives it a totally skewed and distorted apperance. 

Give that horse a year with proper work to build up topline and correct feeding and i bet you anything you wouldnt recognise it as the same one.
		
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If I wasnt so stupid and could post pics on here, I could show you what my horse looked like when I got him in Febuary. Worse by miles than that mare, he is in my avatar.


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## ABC (9 November 2011)

Horsesgalore said:



			Eh? Who are you talking to? 

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Me


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## thatsmygirl (9 November 2011)

Why all the **** pointed at the op? Lets face it we get so many off these threads I don't think they  should be allowed to be honest but why start on the op? Oh she can't spell so bloody what, I can't spell to save my life and is a bit off a pet hate off mine, picking on peoples spellings. 
Lets make this another 20 pages long now shall we??!!!


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## FionaM12 (9 November 2011)

lionman said:



			If I wasnt so stupid and could post pics on here, I could show you what my horse looked like when I got him in Febuary. Worse by miles than that mare, he is in my avatar.
		
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He looks lovely in your avatar.

If you open a Photobucket account (it's very easy) and put your photos there, it's simple to post them from there to here. If that makes sense.

My daughter thinks I'm an internet half-wit, but I can manage it!


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## rockysmum (9 November 2011)

FionaM12 said:



			He looks lovely in your avatar.

If you open a Photobucket account (it's very easy) and put your photos there, it's simple to post them from there to here. If that makes sense.

My daughter thinks I'm an internet half-wit, but I can manage it!
		
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You dont even need to open a photobucket account on here.  Just go to your profile, click to open an album, give it a name and it lets you upload straight onto her.  Then just copy the image code and paste it into your post.


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## Goldenstar (9 November 2011)

I'm crap at spelling and typing !!! Although when I read that post I thought for a moment OP only had  quality religious horses.


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## ABC (9 November 2011)

thatsmygirl said:



			Why all the **** pointed at the op? Lets face it we get so many off these threads I don't think they  should be allowed to be honest but why start on the op? Oh she can't spell so bloody what, I can't spell to save my life and is a bit off a pet hate off mine, picking on peoples spellings. 
Lets make this another 20 pages long now shall we??!!!
		
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Because the OP said numerous times that she was laughing at a horse, who is obviously hard done by. I couldnt give a rats arse if she could spell or not. And I dont think I've particularly rude to her, I just want her to understand my POV (not necessarily agree with it...)


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## ABC (9 November 2011)

Goldenstar said:



			I'm crap at spelling and typing !!! Although when I read that post I thought for a moment OP only had  quality religious horses.
		
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LIKE


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## Merry Crisis (9 November 2011)

FionaM12 said:



			He looks lovely in your avatar.

If you open a Photobucket account (it's very easy) and put your photos there, it's simple to post them from there to here. If that makes sense.

My daughter thinks I'm an internet half-wit, but I can manage it!
		
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I have opened a photobucket account, managed that, but getting pics on here is defeating me. I just get hot and bothered!


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## rockysmum (9 November 2011)

ABC said:



			Because the OP said numerous times that she was laughing at a horse, who is obviously hard done by. I couldnt give a rats arse if she could spell or not. And I dont think I've particularly rude to her, I just want her to understand my POV (not necessarily agree with it...) 

Click to expand...

LOL Definately not agree with it.  If she did you would have to change it.


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## ABC (9 November 2011)

lionman said:



			I have opened a photobucket account, managed that, but getting pics on here is defeating me. I just get hot and bothered!
		
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Is your photobucket account private? If its not just post the link and someone will post the pics for you (I will if you need me too  )


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## Trot_On_Dressage (9 November 2011)

ABC said:



			I agree but from some of your replies it seems like you don't understand where people are coming from/why people think what they think. If I'm wrong I apologise but I dont think I am...[/QUOTE

I do understand. If i was posting and laughing about a mistreated/abused horse than that would be fair but i wasn't. I was pointing out a terrible looking horse. What is my crime, admitting a horse looks terrible? Yes. Does that make me a terrible person? No, its my opinion. I haven't abused or mistreated this horse.
		
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## rhino (9 November 2011)

lionman said:



			I have opened a photobucket account, managed that, but getting pics on here is defeating me. I just get hot and bothered!
		
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You need the IMG code for the photo to upload it here, i.e. if you click on one of your pictures it is the 4th line down, copy it and paste it into your message


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## Merry Crisis (9 November 2011)

ABC said:



			Is your photobucket account private? If its not just post the link and someone will post the pics for you (I will if you need me too  )
		
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I dont think it is private, how do I post the bloody link? I am old and you have to be patient!!!


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## bumblelion (9 November 2011)

Wondering how the poster who was going to look at her has got on? Would be interested in her myself, bit of a distance but doable. Hoping she'll let us know! 
Also agree, if the mare was a racehorse, pretty sure will have good bloodlines. My exracer (for those who know about racing) was bred at juddmonte, sired by zafonic. Impeccable breeding but he's covered head to toe in scars, blemishes! Does that make him also ugly op?


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## lula (9 November 2011)

lionman said:



			If I wasnt so stupid and could post pics on here, I could show you what my horse looked like when I got him in Febuary. Worse by miles than that mare, he is in my avatar.
		
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for some reason this forum makes it impossible to post pictures from your hard drive. as fiona said you have to use an image hosting site like photobucket.
what a palaver . 
give it a go if you have the time tho, love to see!

OP is getting rather a hard time here.


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## JFTDWS (9 November 2011)

thatsmygirl said:



			Oh she can't spell so bloody what, I can't spell to save my life and is a bit off a pet hate off mine, picking on peoples spellings.
		
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Ah, I have a policy of not picking on people's spelling unless it causes a complete missense.  I made an exception in the OPs case as she is being a cocky sod who seems to think her standards are higher than the rest of us and she is acting like god's gift to breeding.  She would be a lot more convincing if she could use the relevant terminology appropriately.  

It does wind me up though, when people can't be bothered to spell words accurately or form coherent sentences - it really isn't hard...


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## rockysmum (9 November 2011)

lula said:



			for some reason this forum makes it impossible to post pictures from your hard drive. as fiona said you have to use an image hosting site like photobucket.
what a palaver . 
give it a go if you have the time tho, love to see!

OP is getting rather a hard time here.
		
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No it doesn't, honest.  All you have to do is upload the pics into an album on your profile first.


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## ABC (9 November 2011)

Trot_On_Dressage said:





ABC said:



			I agree but from some of your replies it seems like you don't understand where people are coming from/why people think what they think. If I'm wrong I apologise but I dont think I am...
		
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I do understand. If i was posting and laughing about a mistreated/abused horse than that would be fair but i wasn't. I was pointing out a terrible looking horse. What is my crime, admitting a horse looks terrible? Yes. Does that make me a terrible person? No, its my opinion. I haven't abused or mistreated this horse.
		
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Admitting a horse looks terrible because she looks poor. Acceptable in my eyes.

Laughing at a horse. Not

IMO. (Not that it particularly matters  )

Its just this time last year it could have been my horse you were laughing at.


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## ABC (9 November 2011)

lionman said:



			I dont think it is private, how do I post the bloody link? I am old and you have to be patient!!!
		
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Haha, no worries. The address at the top, in a white box, click on it, maybe highlight it if it doesnt automatically, right click, "copy", click on the forum webpage, and post as usual, then right click and paste...and voila!  

(or that should be the case  )


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## Spring Feather (9 November 2011)

thatsmygirl said:



* Lets face it we get so many off these threads I don't think they  should be allowed to be honest but why start on the op?*

Click to expand...

Maybe that's why?  I know some days there can be 4 or 5 of these types of posts on the 1st page in NL.  There had been quite a few on the days leading up to this OP posting and then the OP posts a link to this horse who is pictured terribly and standing on an angle away from the camera with a big girl on top obsuring a lot of the horse.  I know why I commented on the horse and it was because the horse was being unfairly jumped upon by the OP in my opinion.   From that photo there is no way the OP could tell whether it has good or poor conformation especially when it sounds like she doesn't know much about conformation.  I judge conformation all the time, every day, and from that photo of the horse I cannot spot any hideous conformation faux pas.  Lack of weight or muscle is not the same as bad conformation!

Trot_On_Dressage do you have the bloodlines of this horse in your link?  What are the bloodlines of your own high quality horse please?


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## Merry Crisis (9 November 2011)

lula said:



			for some reason this forum makes it impossible to post pictures from your hard drive. as fiona said you have to use an image hosting site like photobucket.
what a palaver . 
give it a go if you have the time tho, love to see!

OP is getting rather a hard time here.
		
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Yes she is rather. I shall try, but I am in a muck sweat already, just thinking about posting the bloody thing. I could put the pic on my avatar, I can do that, when I got him. Just for a while as I dont want to think that is how I keep horses. Ok, Ill do that.


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## JFTDWS (9 November 2011)

Spring Feather said:



			From that photo there is no way the OP could tell whether it has good or poor conformation especially when it sounds like she doesn't know much about conformation.  I judge conformation all the time, every day, and from that photo of the horse I cannot spot any hideous conformation faux pas.  Lack of weight or muscle is not the same as bad conformation!
		
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Notice how the knowledgable SF is capable of repeatedly typing "conformation"...


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## B_2_B (9 November 2011)

Awww I want her, I think she looks adorable!

Working at a rescue centre, I've never once looked at conformation in a horse 
I think some of the best horses in terms of a person's best friend are the ones who've been through the hard times and then get to realise life isn't all too bad 

Like Flicka, she's 39 now, and we all think she is gorgeous


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## rockysmum (9 November 2011)

lionman said:



			Yes she is rather. I shall try, but I am in a muck sweat already, just thinking about posting the bloody thing. I could put the pic on my avatar, I can do that, when I got him. Just for a while as I dont want to think that is how I keep horses. Ok, Ill do that.
		
Click to expand...

email it to me and I'll post it for you.  PM'd you the email.


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## LynneB (9 November 2011)

that is one of the unhappiest horses I have ever seen, look at the poor mite's facial expression


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## Goldenstar (9 November 2011)

OP is having a hard time but is  defending her self bravely ( suggest a gin might be in order)
OP is in no way responsible for the poor little mare, and it is laughable that any one might think of going to see a horse presented like that but the plight of the horse is not laughable I just don't understand that ,why encourage dealers like this to continue? it's just tragic that there are so many horses like this one that racing spits out ( if indeed she was ever in training)
Now you all are going to turn on me .


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## lula (9 November 2011)

rockysmum said:



			No it doesn't, honest.  All you have to do is upload the pics into an album on your profile first.
		
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i didnt know that, thankyou !


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## rockysmum (9 November 2011)

B_2_B said:



			Awww I want her, I think she looks adorable!

Working at a rescue centre, I've never once looked at conformation in a horse 
I think some of the best horses in terms of a person's best friend are the ones who've been through the hard times and then get to realise life isn't all too bad 

Like Flicka, she's 39 now, and we all think she is gorgeous 





Click to expand...

Bless her she is lovely.  And if that makes me a fluffy bunny then bring in on.


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## Spring Feather (9 November 2011)

JFTD said:



			Notice how the knowledgable SF is capable of repeatedly typing "conformation"... 

Click to expand...

Lol!  I'm not a Catholic so never went down the confirmation route ...


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## ABC (9 November 2011)

Goldenstar said:



			OP is having a hard time but is  defending her self bravely ( suggest a gin might be in order)
OP is in no way responsible for the poor little mare, and it is laughable that any one might think of going to see a horse presented like that but the plight of the horse is not laughable I just don't understand that ,why encourage dealers like this to continue? it's just tragic that there are so many horses like this one that racing spits out ( if indeed she was ever in training)
Now you all are going to turn on me .
		
Click to expand...

I went to see my horse when he was a right state because of his potential. 

No-one is turning on anyone, its not an out of order argument, its a debate 

And B2B that mare is gorgeous!


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## JFTDWS (9 November 2011)

Spring Feather said:



			Lol!  I'm not a Catholic so never went down the confirmation route ... 

Click to expand...

I could never get my head around the concept of transubstantiation - you're trying to tell me that this wafer has become a little sliver of the body of Jesus?   reaaaaaally


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## B_2_B (9 November 2011)

rockysmum said:



			Bless her she is lovely.  And if that makes me a fluffy bunny then bring in on.
		
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Fluffy bunnies are cute 
Flicka is the fluffiest horse I've ever seen! Actually you can see the last few tufts of winter coat on her bum and shoulders in that, it's that long all over 
Proper teddy bear


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## Merry Crisis (9 November 2011)

Ok, the pic in my avatar was how he looked in Febuary. Its the best I can do with a limited brain!


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## Goldenstar (9 November 2011)

Spring Feather said:



			Maybe that's why?  I know some days there can be 4 or 5 of these types of posts on the 1st page in NL.  There had been quite a few on the days leading up to this OP posting and then the OP posts a link to this horse who is pictured terribly and standing on an angle away from the camera with a big girl on top obsuring a lot of the horse.  I know why I commented on the horse and it was because the horse was being unfairly jumped upon by the OP in my opinion.   From that photo there is no way the OP could tell whether it has good or poor conformation especially when it sounds like she doesn't know much about conformation.  I judge conformation all the time, every day, and from that photo of the horse I cannot spot any hideous conformation faux pas.  Lack of weight or muscle is not the same as bad conformation!

Trot_On_Dressage do you have the bloodlines of this horse in your link?  What are the bloodlines of your own high quality horse please?
		
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Spring feathers  good bloodlines are no guarantee of good conformation ( got a bit nervous when typing last word.)


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## ABC (9 November 2011)

JFTD said:



			I could never get my head around the concept of transubstantiation - you're trying to tell me that this wafer has become a little sliver of the body of Jesus?   reaaaaaally 

Click to expand...

Yes!Surely your not suggesting its not really the body of christ?


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## ABC (9 November 2011)

Goldenstar said:



			Spring feathers  good bloodlines are no guarantee of good conformation ( got a bit nervous when typing last word.)
		
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Haha, you can relax..it's spelt right


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## rockysmum (9 November 2011)

ABC said:



			Yes!Surely your not suggesting its not really the body of christ?  

Click to expand...

Now you really have lost me.  What the hell are you talking about.


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## rhino (9 November 2011)

Goldenstar said:



			OP is having a hard time but is  defending her self bravely ( suggest a gin might be in order)
OP is in no way responsible for the poor little mare, and * it is laughable that any one might think of going to see a horse presented like that* but the plight of the horse is not laughable I just don't understand that ,why encourage dealers like this to continue? it's just tragic that there are so many horses like this one that racing spits out ( if indeed she was ever in training)
Now you all are going to turn on me .
		
Click to expand...

Why is it laughable though? Doesn't every horse deserve the chance of a 'happy ending'? Most of the horses at my current yard came to us looking like the advert in the OP, or worse.... Now they would grace any stable..

No-one is suggesting anyone should feel _obliged_ to buy a 'poor' horse if that is not what they want, but luckily we all look for different things in our horses.

Totally agree about the wastage from racing though, absolutely heartbreaking


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## JFTDWS (9 November 2011)

ABC said:



			Yes!Surely your not suggesting its not really the body of christ?  

Click to expand...

I was raised in the good Presbyterian tradition, so yes, indeed I am


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## JFTDWS (9 November 2011)

rockysmum said:



			Now you really have lost me.  What the hell are you talking about.
		
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We're debating the symbolic or literal taking of the mass!


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## ABC (9 November 2011)

rockysmum said:



			Now you really have lost me.  What the hell are you talking about.
		
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Sorry, went of on a tangent.

Confirmation - Catholic ceremony - Wafer and wine symbolise body and bread of christ... 

I don't know it made sense at the time of posting


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## Trot_On_Dressage (9 November 2011)

Goldenstar said:



			OP is having a hard time but is  defending her self bravely ( suggest a gin might be in order)
OP is in no way responsible for the poor little mare, and it is laughable that any one might think of going to see a horse presented like that but the plight of the horse is not laughable I just don't understand that ,why encourage dealers like this to continue? it's just tragic that there are so many horses like this one that racing spits out ( if indeed she was ever in training)
Now you all are going to turn on me .
		
Click to expand...

Its ok Goldenstar i can certainly hold my own!

I would like to just point out yet again i was not laughing at the plight of this horse, more that it looks bloomin awful. As terrible as they may seem to some.  I do think some of you get your knickers in a twist about absolutely nothing.


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## ABC (9 November 2011)

JFTD said:



			We're debating the symbolic or literal taking of the mass!
		
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Yeah... that ^^


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## 5horses2dogsandacat (9 November 2011)

b_2_b... Flicka is lovely! I think she looks like a very contented and happy old lady. Its sad to think not all horses will be like her in their old age, if they get the chance to meet their old age. 

That poor mare, Im tempted to go pick her up tomorrow if I had the space. I would be dangerous if I won the lottery as every horse like this I would buy  

I do believe I bought a horse off a very naive friend who went to this dealer. She bought her being told that the mare could jump a small course, do a nice dressage test and hack out well. Truth is the mare was a nervous reck who was dangerous on the ground in the wrong hands. However I bought her as she wasnt nasty, just scared and timid. What happened in her previously I will never know, but I got her safe to handle and have her out on loan at the minute as a broodmare.


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## Goldenstar (9 November 2011)

JFTD said:



			We're debating the symbolic or literal taking of the mass!
		
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You are somewhat side-tracked , but imagine if horses were religious the flights in the field the problems putting who next to who in the lorry the diet requirements OMG what a mess.


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## rockysmum (9 November 2011)

OK, I'll ask my colleague at work tomorrow, the Catholic Buddist one LOL.  Very diverse workforce I have, we even have a white witch


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## Spring Feather (9 November 2011)

Goldenstar said:



			Spring feathers  good bloodlines are no guarantee of good conformation ( got a bit nervous when typing last word.)
		
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Huh?  I never linked the two


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## ABC (9 November 2011)

Trot_On_Dressage said:



			I do think some of you get your knickers in a twist about absolutely nothing.
		
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Can you honestly not see why people got their knickers in a twist?


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## FionaM12 (9 November 2011)

Trot_On_Dressage said:



			Its ok Goldenstar i can certainly hold my own!

I would like to just point out yet again i was not laughing at the plight of this horse, more that it looks bloomin awful. As terrible as they may seem to some.  I do think some of you get your knickers in a twist about absolutely nothing.
		
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*sigh* You _really_ don't get it do you? *People think it's shallow and deeply unpleasant to laugh at an animal "because it looks bloomin awful". *

I give up. As Lionman says, I made my point. You just seem incapable of grasping it.


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## Trot_On_Dressage (9 November 2011)

Maybe


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## B_2_B (9 November 2011)

5horses2dogsandacat said:



			b_2_b... Flicka is lovely! I think she looks like a very contented and happy old lady. Its sad to think not all horses will be like her in their old age, if they get the chance to meet their old age. 

That poor mare, Im tempted to go pick her up tomorrow if I had the space. I would be dangerous if I won the lottery as every horse like this I would buy 

Click to expand...

Yes she is, she was given back to us from her loan home who had her for 15 years, probably because they thought she was going to start costing them money 
Fact is, she's usually the healthiest horse we have!

I hope someone nice gives this girl a lovely home


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## ABC (9 November 2011)

Trot_On_Dressage said:



			Maybe 

Click to expand...

Finally! A breakthrough


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## DH1 (9 November 2011)

Feel free to have a laugh at my mare when I bought her a couple of years ago






Oh not so funny now though eh.






Sometimes you just can't judge a book by its cover.
All down to TLC, regular exercise, good grazing and food.


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## B_2_B (9 November 2011)

Lovely transformation DH1


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## Trot_On_Dressage (9 November 2011)

FionaM12 said:



			*sigh* You _really_ don't get it do you? *People think it's shallow and deeply unpleasant to laugh at an animal "because it looks bloomin awful". *

I give up. As Lionman says, I made my point. You just seem incapable of grasping it.
		
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I find you quite rude. I can grasp the concept but i really dont see the big crime in saying a horse is ugly. My god, their are worse things being done in the world. How do you get through your day to day life being so sensitive?


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## lula (9 November 2011)

Goldenstar said:



			Spring feathers  good bloodlines are no guarantee of good conformation ( got a bit nervous when typing last word.)
		
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Goldenstar it was the OP that was talking about how she liked her horses 'well bred' and brought breeding into the debate while stating that the horse in her link was an example of substandard breeding, not spring feather

it might do well to read the whole thread if you're going to quote people.


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## ABC (9 November 2011)

DH1 said:



			Feel free to have a laugh at my mare when I bought her a couple of years ago






Oh not so funny now though eh.






Sometimes you just can't judge a book by its cover.
All down to TLC, regular exercise, good grazing and food.
		
Click to expand...

Wow she's gorgeous. Its a similar transformation for my lad. Sometimes all they need is a bit of hardwork and they turn into superstars!


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## Spring Feather (9 November 2011)

Trot_On_Dressage  Third time lucky perhaps?  *What are the bloodlines of your high quality horses please?*


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## rockysmum (9 November 2011)

WOW DH1 that quite a transformation.  What a beautiful horse.  I wish someone would buy that poor little mare and post a similar pic next year.

I have downloaded the picture of her and she really is very poor.  You can see her ribs they are just disguised by a thick coat.  Poor little love

And by the way, the riders jods are ripped


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## Sheep (9 November 2011)

Spring Feather said:



			Trot_On_Dressage  Third time lucky perhaps?  *What are the bloodlines of your high quality horses please?*

Click to expand...

I had a big ginger monster TB who by my reckoning was pretty well bred.. still looked a bit like a donkey though (in the nicest possible way!). You wouldn't've thought he was anything special to look at.


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## JFTDWS (9 November 2011)

ABC said:



			Sorry, went of on a tangent.

Confirmation - Catholic ceremony - Wafer and wine symbolise body and bread of christ... 

I don't know it made sense at the time of posting  

Click to expand...

Interestingly today, most catholics believe and are taught that the wafer and wine are symbolic of the body and blood.  

But during the reformation (16th C) Catholics were taught the doctrine of transubstantiation - that after consecration the wafer and wine literally became the body and blood of christ.

The reformists and protestants were ever logical and argued that if Jesus sits on the right hand of God in heaven, he could not also be in the wine and wafer during the celebration of the mass.  Therefore Protestants were taught the doctrine of consubstantiation - wine and wafer are symbolic.

And THAT is a digression of epic proportions.


NB - this is my recollection of studying the period years ago - I cannot be held accountable for any minor factual errors


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## Goldenstar (9 November 2011)

rhino said:



			Why is it laughable though? Doesn't every horse deserve the chance of a 'happy ending'? Most of the horses at my current yard came to us looking like the advert in the OP, or worse.... Now they would grace any stable..

No-one is suggesting anyone should feel _obliged_ to buy a 'poor' horse if that is not what they want, but luckily we all look for different things in our horses.

Totally agree about the wastage from racing though, absolutely heartbreaking 

Click to expand...

Horses deserve to be bred by people who have thought though what potential for a good life the foal will have , people who own horses for racing should think though what happens to the ones that fail horses don't deserve happy endings they deserve happy lives I hope this horse gets one but that's chance and lots won't just down hill down hill to the meat man and a quick ending would better for those. If one good thing comes of this horrid economic time it might be less breeding of these TB's.


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## Trot_On_Dressage (9 November 2011)

DH1 there is nothing ugly or laughable about your horse! That isnt the same as the one in the picture in my original post


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## laura_lor (9 November 2011)

Wow DH1 your mare is stunning! 
Also just wanted to say to B_2_B that Flicka looks beautiful as well, she looks lovely and cuddly!


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## Spring Feather (9 November 2011)

rockysmum said:



			WOW DH1 that quite a transformation.  What a beautiful horse.  I wish someone would buy that poor little mare and post a similar pic next year.
		
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Yes lovely horse DH1.  It wouldn't take a year to get that horse on OPs link up to scratch.  A couple of months of good feed and a gradual exercise plan would transform this mare.


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## JFTDWS (9 November 2011)

Goldenstar said:



			You are somewhat side-tracked , but imagine if horses were religious the flights in the field the problems putting who next to who in the lorry the diet requirements OMG what a mess.
		
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I have two highlands in the field with an ROI cob - the cob is presumably Roman Catholic and the highlands are probably wee frees or some such very protestant denomination  

It's a miracle they haven't killed each other yet


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## Goldenstar (9 November 2011)

lula said:



			Goldenstar it was the OP that was talking about how she liked her horses 'well bred' and brought breeding into the debate while stating that the horse in her link was an example of substandard breeding, not spring feather

it might do well to read the whole thread if you're going to quote people. 

Click to expand...

Who made you the forum police!


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## Trot_On_Dressage (9 November 2011)

Spring Feather said:



			Trot_On_Dressage  Third time lucky perhaps?  *What are the bloodlines of your high quality horses please?*

Click to expand...

Sorry dont feel like i want to go into details about my life. I like to keep my identity a secret. Wouldnt want you all banging on my door asking for my expert opinions!


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## rhino (9 November 2011)

Goldenstar said:



			Who made you the forum police!
		
Click to expand...

Maybe she was giving you some advice to stop you from looking a bit silly because you haven't actually read/understood the thread


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## Holly Hocks (9 November 2011)

This used to be what my mare looked like - I bet some people on here wouldn't have looked twice at her - and she is well bred. Believe it or not, she is starting to look positively cob like now!!  I dont' see how you can see whether a horse is well bred or not just from a photo.


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## rockysmum (9 November 2011)

JFTD said:





I have two highlands in the field with an ROI cob - the cob is presumably Roman Catholic and the highlands are probably wee frees or some such very protestant denomination  

It's a miracle they haven't killed each other yet 

Click to expand...

Thats obviously your cue to pay out vast amounts of money to an animal communicator.  Would love to be there when if you asked one to find out what religion your horses are.


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## ABC (9 November 2011)

JFTD said:



			Interestingly today, most catholics believe and are taught that the wafer and wine are symbolic of the body and blood.  

But during the reformation (16th C) Catholics were taught the doctrine of transubstantiation - that after consecration the wafer and wine literally became the body and blood of christ.

The reformists and protestants were ever logical and argued that if Jesus sits on the right hand of God in heaven, he could not also be in the wine and wafer during the celebration of the mass.  Therefore Protestants were taught the doctrine of consubstantiation - wine and wafer are symbolic.

And THAT is a digression of epic proportions.


NB - this is my recollection of studying the period years ago - I cannot be held accountable for any minor factual errors 

Click to expand...

If I google now and find errors I'm holding you personally responsible  

But thats interesting info, I never thought I'd say that religion made sense, but the Protestant POV on it certainly does (  ) 

I dont understand religion though, so much of it contradicts itself that it confuses me  (not that that's particularly hard  )


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## Jesstickle (9 November 2011)

Spring Feather said:



			Trot_On_Dressage  Third time lucky perhaps?  *What are the bloodlines of your high quality horses please?*

Click to expand...

Don't know about the OP but I can proudly announce that the hideous yak I posted photos of is reasonably well bred (by Sir Game the advanced eventer, out of Graefin Vii http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/graefin+vii) still looked like a yak when I first met him though.


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## Meowy Catkin (9 November 2011)

Trot_On_Dressage said:



			DH1 there is nothing ugly or laughable about your horse! That isnt the same as the one in the picture in my original post 

Click to expand...

Please can you explain what conformation faults you see that cannot be explained away by the angle that the horse is standing at? 

^ Genuine question.


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## JFTDWS (9 November 2011)

rockysmum said:



			Thats obviously your cue to pay out vast amounts of money to an animal communicator.  Would love to be there when if you asked one to find out what religion your horses are.
		
Click to expand...

LMAO.  You know the "how many horses if you won the lottery thread"?  If I win the lottery I'm going to spend my life calling out animal communicators to ask them things like "what religion is my horse?"  "Which football team does he support?"  "What are his views on string theory?"


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## whisp&willow (9 November 2011)

shockingly bad photos of all those horses for sale... its a wonder any ever leave that yard!  

no way of telling what any horse is like from a photo-  the camera an tell a lot of lies... depending on how well, or badly the photo is taken!!  

i hope these horses find the right homes, but i would not give this dealer, or any like him a penny of my hard earned cash...  just fueling the fire.    xx


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## Goldenstar (9 November 2011)

Spring Feather said:



			Yes lovely horse DH1.  It wouldn't take a year to get that horse on OPs link up to scratch.  A couple of months of good feed and a gradual exercise plan would transform this mare.
		
Click to expand...

I don't think a couple of months would do it if she came to me I would give 3 months TLC before I even thought about an exercise plan ,sort feet sort worms sort back and muscle problems check for ulcers if she's been in training then when she was looking better I would reback her ( omg it might be fun my OH will divorce me if I get any more )


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## JFTDWS (9 November 2011)

ABC said:



			If I google now and find errors I'm holding you personally responsible  

But thats interesting info, I never thought I'd say that religion made sense, but the Protestant POV on it certainly does (  ) 

I dont understand religion though, so much of it contradicts itself that it confuses me  (not that that's particularly hard  )
		
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I find religion - particularly the changes during the reformation - fascinating.  But it's all lost on me - good old fashioned heathen.  But just because I'm a faithless individual doesn't mean I don't respect people who do have faith 

I should emphasise, I ask virtually every catholic I meet whether they believe in con or transubstantiation and all thus far have said con - so today's catholics are not (imo) mad as hatters


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## Spring Feather (9 November 2011)

Trot_On_Dressage said:



			Sorry dont feel like i want to go into details about my life. I like to keep my identity a secret. Wouldnt want you all banging on my door asking for my expert opinions! 

Click to expand...

Well I'll try very very very hard to hold myself back from asking your "expert" advice on breeding and purchasing high quality well bred horses then


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## ABC (9 November 2011)

jesstickle said:



			Don't know about the OP but I can proudly announce that the hideous yak I posted photos of is reasonably well bred (by Sir Game the advanced eventer, out of Graefin Vii http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/graefin+vii) still looked like a yak when I first met him though.
		
Click to expand...

Some nice breeding there to be fair


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## JFTDWS (9 November 2011)

Spring Feather said:



			Well I'll try very very very hard to hold myself back from asking your "expert" advice on breeding and purchasing high quality well bred horses then 

Click to expand...

Are you sure you'll be able to manage without our holy mistress's input?


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## Trot_On_Dressage (9 November 2011)

Faracat said:



			Please can you explain what conformation faults you see that cannot be explained away by the angle that the horse is standing at? 

^ Genuine question. 






Click to expand...

Well that very helpful red line wasnt in the original picture for a start 

But even if it was standing straight it is still croup high with a low set on neck and poss sway back.


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## thatsmygirl (9 November 2011)

The more I see the pic the more I want to take the mare, her little face says it all. 
if I could get cheap transport I would give her a home but fat chance off that I'm in Devon. It she was local I would grab her but transport holds me back


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## ABC (9 November 2011)

JFTD said:



			I find religion - particularly the changes during the reformation - fascinating.  But it's all lost on me - good old fashioned heathen.  But just because I'm a faithless individual doesn't mean I don't respect people who do have faith 

I should emphasise, I ask virtually every catholic I meet whether they believe in con or transubstantiation and all thus far have said con - so today's catholics are not (imo) mad as hatters 

Click to expand...

You should ask my mum, honestly  she'd fit in your "mad as hatters" group


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## JFTDWS (9 November 2011)

ABC said:



			You should ask my mum, honestly  she'd fit in your "mad as hatters" group  

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Shhhhh I try very hard to maintain my "interested but not bigoted or discriminatory" manner and belief structure


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## Trot_On_Dressage (9 November 2011)

Spring Feather said:



			Well I'll try very very very hard to hold myself back from asking your "expert" advice on breeding and purchasing high quality well bred horses then 

Click to expand...

Well my best advice would be to stay away from horses that look like that one.  Oh too soon? Sorry, and we were just starting to get along!


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## rockysmum (9 November 2011)

Trot_On_Dressage said:



			Well that very helpful red line wasnt in the original picture for a start 

But even if it was standing straight it is still croup high with a low set on neck and poss sway back.
		
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She is not just standing downhill, she pointing away from the camera so no way to tell if she is croup high.

Her neck is so skinny its impossible to tell what she would look like with some decent weight and muscle on.  As skinny as she is, she is hardly going to have any top line so I dont see have you could possibly guess she is sway backed either.


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## FionaM12 (9 November 2011)

Trot_On_Dressage said:



			I find you quite rude. I can grasp the concept but i really dont see the big crime in saying a horse is ugly.
		
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I apologize for coming across as rude. It wasn't meant to sound insulting, I was exasperated.

I love horses, all horses. I actually don't think any horse is truly ugly. Some are definitely more beautiful than others, but all have their value, to me. I was incensed at the idea of laughing at a horse for its looks, but I've calmed down now.


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## Spring Feather (9 November 2011)

JFTD said:



			Are you sure you'll be able to manage without our holy mistress's input? 

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I've managed it for half a century but now the OP entered my life I really don't know whether I can see out the next half century without her input .... although having just seen the CC on Faracats photo .... hmm maybe I'll just stick to doing my own CCs


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## Echo Bravo (9 November 2011)

And a possible swayback rubbish. You can see from the cars parked at the back there is a slope and the way the mare is standing, that there is nothing wrong just the way the person is sitting on her and the way she is stood and a rotten photo, just hope she finds a decent home.


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## Amymay (9 November 2011)

So I think we've established then, OP, that you're pretty clueless on conformation issues...


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## Jesstickle (9 November 2011)

ABC said:



			Some nice breeding there to be fair 

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And yet he still looked awful and most people wouldn't touch him with a barge pole! Turned out ok though. All horses deserve to be taken on their individual merits. Breeding isn't everything and nor are looks, especially if based on a dodgy photo. How could you possibly know without going to look in the flesh whether a horse was any cop?


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## ABC (9 November 2011)

JFTD said:



			Shhhhh I try very hard to maintain my "interested but not bigoted or discriminatory" manner and belief structure 

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Haha, you've gotta be calm to talk about religion to people, it always ends up as a mass argument whenever we talk about it  

(was going to put mass debate but changed my mind, 'cos I'm immature like that  )


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## ABC (9 November 2011)

jesstickle said:



			And yet he still looked awful and most people wouldn't touch him with a barge pole! Turned out ok though. All horses deserve to be taken on their individual merits. Breeding isn't everything and nor are looks, especially if based on a dodgy photo. How could you possibly know without going to look in the flesh whether a horse was any cop? 

Click to expand...

You can't  which is pretty much why there's 30 - odd pages of people disagreeing with the OP


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## Goldenstar (9 November 2011)

I am sure this mare will be croup high however she is standing and at 5 she is too old to even up her back looks very weak and not just because her condition this is a difficult combination of problems to deal with one of my best horse was a little croup high but because she had strong back conformation ( that word again) she was trainable and sucessful. But those two things would be enough for me not to consider this mare .
I quite like to buy a horse who looks quite poor because it very easy to assess conformation when they are thin far harder when they are fat.


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## JFTDWS (9 November 2011)

Spring Feather said:



			I've managed it for half a century but now the OP entered my life I really don't know whether I can see out the next half century without her input .... although having just seen the CC on Faracats photo .... hmm maybe I'll just stick to doing my own CCs 

Click to expand...

Oooooooh *goes to check it out*

If you're sure you can manage all by yourself?  Are you sure this mare isn't one of yours?  I mean, with her horrible conformation (sorry, confIrmation) and your obvious lack of knowledge, she must have come from a breeder as lacking in standards as you


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## Meowy Catkin (9 November 2011)

Trot_On_Dressage said:



			Well that very helpful red line wasnt in the original picture for a start 

But even if it was standing straight it is still croup high with a low set on neck and poss sway back.
		
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She's not perfect. I think that she may be a tad back at the knee. I cannot really judge her back with any confidence due to the rider. To be fair, being downhill is an advantage to a racehorse. When you just look at the spine and ignore the usual tall wither that TB's have - it is actually very hard to find a level TB, let alone a truely uphill one. Of course many can be trained to move 'uphill'. I think that she hasn't finished growing either and she is in poor condition. She has definition between her neck and chest, plus her neck will look alot better once she's properly muscled and in good condition.


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## Jesstickle (9 November 2011)

ABC said:



			You can't  which is pretty much why there's 30 - odd pages of people disagreeing with the OP 

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Quite. And with that I shall split because frozen planet is on!


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## Trot_On_Dressage (9 November 2011)

Goldenstar said:



			I am sure this mare will be croup high however she is standing and at 5 she is too old to even up her back looks very weak and not just because her condition this is a difficult combination of problems to deal with
		
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Exactly what i said on page 1/2.


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## Spring Feather (9 November 2011)

JFTD said:



			I mean, with her horrible conformation (sorry, confIrmation) and your obvious lack of knowledge, she must have come from a breeder as lacking in standards as you 

Click to expand...

  Oh dear where have I gone wrong all these years


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## Rosie Round The Hills (9 November 2011)

Oh, I am so loving this thread!  

Impassioned debate
Informed and un-informed opinions galore
History!
Religion! 
IT helpdesk advice
Name-calling (but not too much)

To all the participants - thank you 

And I too can add a poor-conformation success story:  I have a Mare that started with me as a fat, saggy, short-legged, no-muscled ex-brood mare, and is now a glorious, shiny, muscled, toned and absolutely gorgeous Hunter.

No photos, sorry, because I just can't do with all that technological faff.


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## lula (9 November 2011)

Trot_On_Dressage said:



			Well my best advice would be to stay away from horses that look like that one.  Oh too soon? Sorry, and we were just starting to get along! 

Click to expand...


HEH.  
Despite her rather strange opinions on neds im beginning to quite like the OP for at least keeping her sense of humor!


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## Goldenstar (9 November 2011)

The question is why would you use that picture Of course you can't give a full assessment of conformation from that picture but if you want to buy a horse why would spend time driving to see that one there are loads of others out there ,they could have turned her round and that would have done the trick.
I thought these dealers were supposed to be cunning.


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## MiJodsR2BlinkinTite (9 November 2011)

Horse looks a bit croup-high to me plus needs feeding up, worming etc., and working to develop some topline, but think the main reason she looks so odd is (a) the angle of the camera and the horse is probably standing on a slope and (b) the rider is sitting like a bag of ferrets and the whole thing would look better if someone put in some effort and bunged on a saddle.

All the other horses from this vendor are shown bareback; and I personally would give anyone a wide berth who couldn't be bothered to present a horse for sale properly.

I went to see a haflinger recently: quite a nice little chap, but very green for a 15 yo and they wanted a good price for it, BUT the saddle they had on it was some old plastic thing that was literally falling to pieces and to make things worse, the stirrup "leathers" (also made of synthetic) were very badly frayed and I was afraid to put any weight on them, especially on a horse I wasn't familiar with. (Note to self, take own stirrups & leathers in future) BUT I think if people can't be bothered to make an effort to present a horse for sale nicely, then they musn't be surprised if people go elsewhere!!! 

None of the horses in the advert are shown to their best potential, which is a shame, as probably at least one of them might be worth a look.


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## DH1 (9 November 2011)

Thank you all for your lovely comments, it means a lot. She is my first horse and  I am very proud of her.

OP surely it's absolutely impossible to judge conformation (or religious persuasion) from one random photo.
Had I applied your amazing skills to do so, I would not have bought Dorrie. 

My mare also has impressive bloodlines but it counts for nothing unless they are well cared for 365 days a year.


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## rhino (9 November 2011)

JackyandRosie said:



			Oh, I am so loving this thread!
		
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Glad to be of service 

Oh, and if anyone wants to join in another thread which has just taken an exciting twist, have a read of this:
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=432271


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## Trot_On_Dressage (9 November 2011)

lula said:



			HEH.  
Despite her rather strange opinions on neds im beginning to quite like the OP for at least keeping her sense of humor!
		
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See i am not really witch or cruel or vile as some have said! 

And to be fair i did just glance at the photo before posting. Lesson learnt!


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## rhino (9 November 2011)

Trot_On_Dressage said:



			Lesson learnt!
		
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## rockysmum (9 November 2011)

rhino said:



			Glad to be of service 

Oh, and if anyone wants to join in another thread which has just taken an exciting twist, have a read of this:
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=432271



Click to expand...

Very strange, 3 users on the same IP address.  Two like this dealer, the other slags him off.  What!!!!!!!!!!


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## Goldenstar (9 November 2011)

DH1 said:



			Thank you all for your lovely comments, it means a lot. She is my first horse and  I am very proud of her.

OP surely it's absolutely impossible to judge conformation (or religious persuasion) from one random photo.
Had I applied your amazing skills to do so, I would not have bought Dorrie. 

My mare also has impressive bloodlines but it counts for nothing unless they are well cared for 365 days a year.
		
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When I am looking for a horse I have loads and loads to consider so I have to weed though them so you look at the picture and think ok am I prepared to drive x hours to see this. If the picture seems to show something I hate I will discount the horse and I accept I may discount nice horse doing this bit you have make decisions on what will and will not drive to see. Then I read the ads and that will discount more then I speak to the owners and discount more then I see the ones that are left and if lucky one will be the one if not I start again . I have to take judge from the photo what else can I do ,see them all ?


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## Meowy Catkin (9 November 2011)

Oh, and if anyone wants to join in another thread which has just taken an exciting twist, have a read of this:
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forum...d.php?t=432271

Click to expand...





			Clause 3 - User accounts
3.2 ... Anyone who registers a second usename and then uses it inappropriately will be named on the open forum...

As strange as it may seem biffo, vet263, and 3WISEMEN (a pseudonym that perhaps gives the whole ironic game away) are, if not one and the same person (no prizes guessing which person that may be), all posting from the same internet access point. So, we think it reasonable to assume they at least are aware of each others' existence.
		
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Wow!


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## Aidey (9 November 2011)

Faracat said:



			Wow!
		
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Do they not have anything better to do with their time ..


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## JessandCharlie (9 November 2011)

Wow Mr F kicked arse on the other thread  

J&C


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## rockysmum (9 November 2011)

At last pictures from Lionman, they would not work via albums on here

Before






















And after


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## Fools Motto (9 November 2011)

After trying to read the best part of the first 12 pages of this thread, I got bored and skipped to the end, at which point I got even more confused as another tread seems to have leapt in?? (did like TFC input into that one!)
Anyway, just thought I'd get my name down to be at least a tiny part of the original topic. The chestnut mare, I'd say was a filly can barely be three looking at her. The dealer who is selling these horses needs some tips and pointers as does the photographer. Just glad there is hardly a saddle in sight, and that can be a good thing in the circumstances?!?


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## JessandCharlie (9 November 2011)

Lovely looking horse lipnman, a credit to you  

J&C


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## rockysmum (9 November 2011)

cool mix said:



			After trying to read the best part of the first 12 pages of this thread, I got bored and skipped to the end, at which point I got even more confused as another tread seems to have leapt in?? (did like TFC input into that one!)
?!?
		
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You should have read it all, very interesting religious discussion a few pages back as well


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## rhino (9 November 2011)

JessandCharlie said:



			Lovely looking horse lipnman, a credit to you  

J&C
		
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Agreed  Classy looking little horse.


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## lula (9 November 2011)

damn, just headed over and the thread's been pulled.. i always miss the fun  

nice job lionman .. a credit to you.


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## DH1 (9 November 2011)

Photos were well worth waiting for Lionman 
You have a really lovely super shiny  horse, a real credit to you.


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## MerrySherryRider (9 November 2011)

JFTD said:



			Interestingly today, most catholics believe and are taught that the wafer and wine are symbolic of the body and blood.  

But during the reformation (16th C) Catholics were taught the doctrine of transubstantiation - that after consecration the wafer and wine literally became the body and blood of christ.
		
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You are mistaken. Catholics do believe in transubstantiation. 
That is, that during the mass, the wafer and wine become the actual Body and Blood of Christ. We still hold this to be true, as we did yesterday and will tomorrow. This is central to our faith.
 We also belive in the Immaculate Conception and the Ressurrection. 
Mad as hatters all of us perhaps, but it is my faith.

Bit off topic, sorry all.


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## rockysmum (9 November 2011)

Yes Lionman, amazing the difference, what a beautiful horse now.

Sorry it took so long to make the pics work.


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## DH1 (9 November 2011)

rockysmum said:



			Yes Lionman, amazing the difference, what a beautiful horse now.

Sorry it took so long to make the pics work.
		
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I think it was lovely of you to post them for Lionman, there are some great people on here.


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## be positive (9 November 2011)

Having read the whole thread The photos of lionmans horse show how good care can change even the weakest looking horse, he now looks stunning but in the original photos he looked even worse than the one of the mare.

 BTW There is a new religious thread just started on confirmation if anyone wants to know more on the subject.


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## JFTDWS (9 November 2011)

horserider said:



			You are mistaken. Catholics do believe in transubstantiation. 
That is, that during the mass, the wafer and wine become the actual Body and Blood of Christ. We still hold this to be true, as we did yesterday and will tomorrow. This is central to our faith.
 We also belive in the Immaculate Conception and the Ressurrection. 
Mad as hatters all of us perhaps, but it is my faith.

Bit off topic, sorry all. 

Click to expand...

I am not mistaken - most Roman Catholics I know claim not to believe in transubstantiation and claim not to have been taught it.  Clearly you have been brought up in a much more traditional faith.  I did say in a previous comment that I had asked all the Roman Catholics I know.  I should have been clearer in the later post that by most I meant "those that I have encountered and know well enough to have asked - which is skewed towards younger people".

The RCs I know do believe in the resurrection and the immaculate conception though.  I think with all religions the extent to which traditional doctrines are preached and believed varies to some extent.


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## MerrySherryRider (10 November 2011)

JFTD said:



			I am not mistaken - most Roman Catholics I know claim not to believe in transubstantiation and claim not to have been taught it.  Clearly you have been brought up in a much more traditional faith.  I did say in a previous comment that I had asked all the Roman Catholics I know.  I should have been clearer in the later post that by most I meant "those that I have encountered and know well enough to have asked - which is skewed towards younger people".

The RCs I know do believe in the resurrection and the immaculate conception though.  I think with all religions the extent to which traditional doctrines are preached and believed varies to some extent.
		
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Yes, you did say that the Catholics you knew claimed not to be believe in Transubstantiation, but the belief that the bread and wine becomes the Body and Blood of Christ during the mass is not an optional extra for Catholics to believe or not believe in.
 This doctrine has been constant for 2000 years and the teaching is part of the Catechism. Catholics must believe this in order to be Confirmed.

I do agree that some Catholics will have never really understood this particularly if they had a limited Catholic education or they did and then choose not to believe it, but in order to recieve Holy Communion, it is required.


(Now I've bored everyone, I'll shut up.)
Back on track in hoping the fortunes of the little mare are about to change for the better.


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## Merry Crisis (10 November 2011)

Thank you Rockysmum for putting the photos on for me. He was in a shocking state, his feet were the worst part about him to get right. At one stage I didnt think he would pull through. He would be a good advertisement for Blue Chip Balancer, because thats what helped him on his way to recovery. He is a very naught boy now and always smiling. I think to pull a horse round is so rewarding and makes for a huge bond between horse and rider.


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## Ibblebibble (10 November 2011)

Goldenstar said:



			The question is why would you use that picture Of course you can't give a full assessment of conformation from that picture but if you want to buy a horse why would spend time driving to see that one there are loads of others out there ,they could have turned her round and that would have done the trick.
I thought these dealers were supposed to be cunning.
		
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is it not cunning to put up a photo of a sad looking horse knowing that within hours someone will have flagged it on HHo or another forum and then not only have you doubled your audience but possibly guaranteed someone will feel strongly enough to 'rescue' the poor animal All the OP has done is fuel this dealers trade you're not involved with them are you OP good sales tactic if you are


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## FionaM12 (10 November 2011)

lionman said:



			Thank you Rockysmum for putting the photos on for me. He was in a shocking state, his feet were the worst part about him to get right. At one stage I didnt think he would pull through. He would be a good advertisement for Blue Chip Balancer, because thats what helped him on his way to recovery. He is a very naught boy now and always smiling. I think to pull a horse round is so rewarding and makes for a huge bond between horse and rider.
		
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You've done an amazing job with him Lionman, bless you for persevering when it was looking hopeless for him. It's fortunate for horses down on their luck that there are some people who will do this.

I'd like to think someone could give that little mare in the ad such a chance, but the odds are poor. Sadly there are just so many unlucky horses out there, and not enough people with the dedication, time or money to help them.


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## FionaM12 (10 November 2011)

Ibblebibble said:



			All the OP has done is fuel this dealers trade you're not involved with them are you OP good sales tactic if you are

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 It was suggested in an earlier post she might be the girl on the mare!


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## elsielouise (10 November 2011)

Just in case any one was wondering. I am really sorry to report that following my 'research' into this seller I am unable to do any kind of business with them.


I hope that little mare finds a genuine home with someone who will give it what it needs.


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## Sheep (10 November 2011)

elsielouise said:



			Just in case any one was wondering. I am really sorry to report that following my 'research' into this seller I am unable to do any kind of business with them.


I hope that little mare finds a genuine home with someone who will give it what it needs.
		
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I think that is reasonable. From the looks of things, she isn't the only one who needs a home; sure, you'd be saving her from a rubbish life, but ultimately it would just fuel the fire. 

Let's hope she finds a good home somewhere.


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## Queenbee (10 November 2011)

amymay said:



			So I think we've established then, OP, that you're pretty clueless on conformation issues...
		
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I think what we have also established is that you have entirely no 'vision' and are project shy, you seem to be a bit of a trophy hunter snob type who probably buys close to the finished article.  You would never be able to pick out a real potential horse out of a bunch looking like the horse you posted becase they are bony, lacking in muscle, probably full of worms, muddy, lacklustre due to them lacking care and nutrition, you are quite obviously incapable of seeing the bigger picture, or caring about it. You are insensitive, and just because people are compassionate and have a heart does not make them bunny huggers.  You won't be thinking about the fact that this horse is not doted on and adored and in complete health and care tonight.  Because you do not seem to give a damn.  It comes across that you will never fully appreciate what it is to take a horse like this chestnut TB home, nurture and truly care for it, see it blossom and learn, school it cherish it teach it all it needs to know, there is absolutely nothing more rewarding than having an eye, compassion and talent for that...


well I suppose there is, its the moment you ride into the arena on the ugly duckling horse that narrow minded horrible people laughted  at and walked past so that they could buy a pre prepared rosette winning horse aka Katie price style and you whip their arses wipe the smile off their face, collect the sodding trophy and ride around in a lap of honour on your now gleaming swan.


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## jsr (10 November 2011)

Well said queenbee.


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## Frumpoon (10 November 2011)

elsielouise said:



			Just in case any one was wondering. I am really sorry to report that following my 'research' into this seller I am unable to do any kind of business with them.


I hope that little mare finds a genuine home with someone who will give it what it needs.
		
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What was he like, can you give us any feedback?

PM if you prefer


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