# Want to try (drag)hunting but scared of sabs



## Chinchilla (30 December 2017)

As per title really: would love to go drag hunting one day - though it isn't going to happen for a far while yet! -  but frankly petrified of being molested by sabs, having seen videos of how they treat people who hunt and their horses (particularly the horses!! - can cope with someone being abusive towards myself but if it was my horse then don't think I could cope: would totally see red!) Just the mere idea of being trailed by not insubstantial numbers of people in cars and all in balaclavas is fairly intimidating!

So, those of you who hunt, what do you do about the possibility of encountering sabs ? Or when/if you do encounter them?
(I actually feel quite sad writing this - someone rural/country born-and- bred shouldn't feel like this. But equally I'm a wimp and hate confrontation, lol.)


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## Beausmate (30 December 2017)

Never given it much thought.  I have only encountered monitors and they kept out of the way, mostly sitting in a Land Rover looking miserable.

They were ignored by all.


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## ycbm (30 December 2017)

I have drag hunted on and off for decades with four different packs and never even seen a sab. Stories of sabs sabbing drag hunts are almost all either  one off mistakes from donkeys years ago or total myth.

Whereabouts are you?  I can pretty much guarantee you that if you go out with the Cheshire Drag you won't see a sab anywhere.


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## Kat (30 December 2017)

If you go with a bloodhound pack or a registered drag pack as opposed to a foxhound pack that are trail hunting you should be ok.


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## TGM (30 December 2017)

ycbm said:



			Stories of sabs sabbing drag hunts are almost all either  one off mistakes from donkeys years ago or total myth.

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The sabs did harass one of our local drag hunts just a couple of months ago.  However it was a one-off and they don't usually have any trouble and our local bloodhound pack haven't been troubled for years.


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## The Fuzzy Furry (30 December 2017)

I've only seen sabs once at a SC&RMA drag hunt, over many years. 
They were a bunch of very misguided young men,  who were told about drag hunting by field master...... and they met the runner too.... never saw them again  
This was a Sunday.......


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## Chinchilla (30 December 2017)

ycbm said:



			I have drag hunted on and off for decades with four different packs and never even seen a sab. Stories of sabs sabbing drag hunts are almost all either  one off mistakes from donkeys years ago or total myth.

Whereabouts are you?  I can pretty much guarantee you that if you go out with the Cheshire Drag you won't see a sab anywhere.
		
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I'm in Oxfordshire. If I do go  (and as I said, it won't be for a while yet) it would probably be with the Old Berks or if not with the Vine and Craven as they're local and I know a lot of the people who attend.  Though I intend to go more than once -  wanted to go hunting since I was knee high to a grasshopper!


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## ycbm (30 December 2017)

They are fox packs, not drag packs?  If you go with a fox pack you are much more likely to be sabbed.


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## Chinchilla (30 December 2017)

ycbm said:



			They are fox packs, not drag packs?  If you go with a fox pack you are much more likely to be sabbed.
		
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They're the hunts closest to me, so would rather stay nearby (just for ease) but if I have to travel then I will. ¯\_(&#12484_/¯ In all fairness Old Berks website specifically states they stay well within the law and I actually haven't heard of them being bothered by sabs but having never hunted before idk.


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## Shay (30 December 2017)

Sadly hunt monitors are far from convinced that drag or blood hounds do not and cannot chase a fox.  They simply don't accept it for the fact it is.  Certainly where we are (South east) they harass the drag and bloodhound packs just as much - if not more so  - than the trail packs.   Their routes are more predictable and it takes less effort.  If they really wanted to check that the hunt was within the law they would stay up front with the hounds - what  the riders do actually has nothing to do with the law on hunting mammals.  But again that takes effort.

OP  - what you see on the internet is the extreme end.  If you keep to the middle of the pack of riders and just ignore them they won't target you.  There is no fun in it for them.  Like bullies they single out riders alone or separated.  Speak to the secretaries. They can link you up with someone experienced.  99% of the time it is nothing more than some masked idiots who don't know the countryside shouting class based slogans.  Annoying - but not scary.


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## ycbm (31 December 2017)

Certainly where we are (South east) they harass the drag and bloodhound packs just as much - if not more so - than the trail packs.
		
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I'm really sorry, but I find this almost impossible to believe. Do you have any evidence, like recent YouTube video or photos or news reports or Facebook posts?

And if it's true, why on earth don't they invite them along and educate them, as in the example above?

It appears that the midwest are well aware of the difference:

https://network23.org/3chuntsabs/2015/12/28/trail-drag-or-fox/


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## TGM (31 December 2017)

Shay, what part of the South East is this happening in?  My husband is a master of the biggest pack of Bloodhounds in the South East and they never get sabbed.  It is true that the Mid Surrey Drag got sabbed a couple of months ago (and there is video evidence of it) but that seems to be a one-off and a case of mistaken identity.


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## ycbm (31 December 2017)

And meanwhile it's reported three hunts have been reported to Police for illegal kills on Boxing Day, including my local Cheshire Forest which is repited in this area to hunt fox, and one huntsman so far apparently arrested from the Thurlow. And hunting people wonder why they are sabbed, or think this is just a class war. I feel very, very sorry for the people hunting within the spirit of the law who are having their fun spoiled.

Surely it is time, now the Conservatives have dropped it from their manifesto, and the law has been in place for well over a decade, for fox packs to teach their hounds the level of control that drag packs have, and lay heavier scents?  

Either that, or shut up moaning about being sabbed.  One or the other, please!.


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## Shay (31 December 2017)

No-one performing a lawful activity should have to "shut up moaning" about being subject to an unlawful activity.  Believe me we would like nothing more than to have an honest and constructive dialogue with those who oppose any form of hunting.  But there are those who are so determined to cling to a particular erroneous belief that they cannot open their minds to anything which could be different.  No legitimate hunt has anything to fear from the correct and legal monitoring of their activities - quite the contrary.  It would save everyone a lot of time and hassle. But the "sharp end" as it were is up the front with the trail layer, the huntsman and the hounds.  Not at the back with the mounted field.

Yes - this is Surrey.  And ycbm you have already pointed to the "evidence" you want me to provide.  As to the "reports" of illegal hunting on boxing day - I can only say look to the source.  

The Police exist to enforce laws.  If laws are being broken leave it to them to deal with it. Vigilantism - on either side - has no place in a democratic society.

OP - you asked a reasonable question.  I'm sorry if your post as become hijacked into an anti hunting debate.  I hope you have found the answers you were looking for.


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## popsdosh (31 December 2017)

ycbm said:



			And meanwhile it's reported three hunts have been reported to Police for illegal kills on Boxing Day, including my local Cheshire Forest which is well known in this area to hunt fox, and one huntsman so far apparently arrested from the Thurlow. And hunting people wonder why they are sabbed, or think this is just a class war. I feel very, very sorry for the people hunting within the spirit of the law who are having their fun spoiled.

Surely it is time, now the Conservatives have dropped it from their manifesto, and the law has been in place for well over a decade, for fox packs to teach their hounds the level of control that drag packs have, and lay heavier scents?  

Either that, or shut up moaning about being sabbed.  One or the other, please!.
		
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If those sabs did that in a town for any other legal activity they would be arrested ! Why is it acceptable in the situation of hunting . Maybe you condone their actions?  Faced with the evidence of not just one person who have seen sabs go for drag hunts or bloodhounds you still question if it happens. Do you not believe the eye witnesses and are you calling them liars? 
You are on very thin ice if you are actually accusing your local hunt of illegal hunting on a public forum. 
There are many exclusions under the Hunting  act and some hunts exploit them to some degree or another every time they do they are open to scrutiny and they dont exactly try to hide what they are doing. My local hunt flush foxes to a Golden eagle that then kills the fox . The hounds have to be pulled off prior to the Eagle being let loose .


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## ycbm (31 December 2017)

Yes - this is Surrey. And ycbm you have already pointed to the "evidence" you want me to provide.
		
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Where? I don't know of any evidence of any sabbing of drag hunts or blood hounds except one off mistakes and anecdotes that are twenty years old. The wife of the master of the biggest bloodhound pack in Sussex says you are wrong. 



PD, i should of course have said 'widely reputed' to hunt fox, not 'widely known' and I asked earlier for admin to change that word.


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## ester (31 December 2017)

I've never come across sabs, a few monitors, but have always tended to hunt more midweek, so as a group of 10-15 people we probably weren't worth it.


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## Chinchilla (31 December 2017)

Shay said:



			OP - you asked a reasonable question.  I'm sorry if your post as become hijacked into an anti hunting debate.  I hope you have found the answers you were looking for.
		
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Well if people want to discuss foxhunting on a draghunting thread then that's their prerogative :lol: 
I am utterly, utterly clueless about hunting, though I pretty much have the answers I need now and I am going to look into hunts which are specifically draghunting packs, though in logistical terms it would be a lot easier for me to just go with the Old Berks. Someone on this thread did mention just speaking to the secretaries about being a first timer and finding someone experienced to ride with, which shouldn't be too difficult to do, so I may well just do that. It still isn't going to be for a while yet so at least I have plenty of time to find out what I need to know.


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## TGM (31 December 2017)

popsdosh said:



			Faced with the evidence of not just one person who have seen sabs go for drag hunts or bloodhounds you still question if it happens. Do you not believe the eye witnesses and are you calling them liars? .
		
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Whilst it does happen occasionally, it seems to be very rare indeed and certainly not a regular occurrence, at least in our area.  The one incident I mentioned above was almost certainly due to mistaken identity, and the sabs being tipped off when someone saw 'foxhounds' arriving at the meet.  You can be pretty certain if you go out with the bloodhounds or the drag in our area you are very unlikely to be troubled with unwanted attention from antis.   With the bloodhounds, it is even more unlikely, because the hounds are very obviously not foxhounds!


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## palo1 (31 December 2017)

Self styled ' hunt monitors' turned up to a drag hound meet on the Welsh borders a couple of weeks ago.  They were treated with courtesy. No idea what they made of it but these folk are vigilantes, simple as. This wouldn't be tolerated in other areas of society. No harm done to anyone in fact, but that is not always the case.


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## ycbm (31 December 2017)

Chinchilla said:



			Well if people want to discuss foxhunting on a draghunting thread then that's their prerogative :lol:
		
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I don't understand this comment.  You asked a question about likelihood of being sabbed and the two hunts you named that you propose to go out with are fox packs not drag packs. I thought the subsequent discussion was completely relevant to the question. 

If you go out with a fox pack that hunts 'within the law' as opposed to 'within the spirit of the law' then you are, it seems, likely to be sabbed.


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## popsdosh (31 December 2017)

TGM said:



			Whilst it does happen occasionally, it seems to be very rare indeed and certainly not a regular occurrence, at least in our area.  The one incident I mentioned above was almost certainly due to mistaken identity, and the sabs being tipped off when someone saw 'foxhounds' arriving at the meet.  You can be pretty certain if you go out with the bloodhounds or the drag in our area you are very unlikely to be troubled with unwanted attention from antis.   With the bloodhounds, it is even more unlikely, because the hounds are very obviously not foxhounds!
		
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Last season the bloodhounds up this way certainly got sabbed on a sunday . The runner having a sense of humour ran round with a balaclava on . They didn stay long as they were on a private estate and the police when called pointed out their schoolboy errors.  Im guessing they were acting a bit off their backs as none of the usual ring leaders were out. We know them quite well up here and even meet them shopping and say hello.


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## popsdosh (31 December 2017)

ycbm said:



			I don't understand this comment.  You asked a question about likelihood of being sabbed and the two hunts you named that you propose to go out with are fox packs not drag packs. I thought the subsequent discussion was completely relevant to the question. 

If you go out with a fox pack that hunts 'within the law' as opposed to 'within the spirit of the law' then you are, it seems, likely to be sabbed.
		
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What is the difference in that backhand comment there are no grey areas you either hunt legally or you dont surely. If hounds kill a fox the onus is on the prosecuted to prove their innocence I believe one of the only occasions in UK law when this is the test and was a huge bone of contention when the hunting act was passed.


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## Fiagai (2 January 2018)

ycbm said:



			And meanwhile it's reported three hunts have been reported to Police for illegal kills on Boxing Day, including my local Cheshire Forest which is well known in this area to hunt fox, and one huntsman so far apparently arrested from the Thurlow. And hunting people wonder why they are sabbed, or think this is just a class war. I feel very, very sorry for the people hunting within the spirit of the law who are having their fun spoiled.

Surely it is time, now the Conservatives have dropped it from their manifesto, and the law has been in place for well over a decade, for fox packs to teach their hounds the level of control that drag packs have, and lay heavier scents?  

Either that, or *shut up moaning about being sabbed.  One or the other, please!.*

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Perhaps ycbm you should take your own advice and "shut up moaning about" sabbing. Recently you have endlessly trolled the Hunting forum regarding pro sab activities and to be honest it is becoming quite tiresome.

The hunting forum like other fora on H&H is ultimately a place for those with similar interests to discuss and seek advice from other posters. I do not know of another forum where some posters resort to for such regular attacks and / or grandstanding.

What is clear is that most sabs do what they do without licence or rationale as extreme animal-rights activists who activities result in the intimidation and harassment of hunt supporters and landowners.  Most sabs appear to know little if anything about hounds and hunting and most wouldn't know the difference between a drag pack and a trail hunt even if a hound came up behind them and bit them them in the arse!

 Take a read of the following - it may just jolt your black and white thinking and suport of sabbing. 

http://www.countryside-alliance.org/former-hunt-sab-choice-words-anti-hunting-lobby/


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