# Anyone's dog had these symptoms?



## ihatework (14 February 2013)

I have a coming 7yo labrador.
He has in general been very active, fit and healthy. One soft tissue injury to his left hip area approx 2.5 years ago.

For the last 3 weeks or so, he has had the occasional spell of walking a bit funny. He just goes a bit crooked / banana shaped and his tail is held low and off to one side slightly.
This has over the last few days become a more pronounced and persistant stance.

Now this is the wimpiest dog in history - he'll cry for the smallest of things, and when his hip was hurting him he wouldn't get in the car, chase a ball etc.

This time we cannot get a pain response from him, joints are mobile, he doesn't react to quite forceful prodding. Sound when moving (if a bit crooked!).

He isn't showing significant response to anti-inflams.

Vet's are a bit stumped and he is now booked in for xrays of his entire spine & pelvis with talk of MRI referral 

I'm imagining lot's of horrid things ...

Anyone had similar symptoms with a positive outcome?


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## cbmcts (14 February 2013)

This may be completely wrong but has anyone had a good look at his ears?

My little JRT used to go 'crooked' whenever she was brewing an ear infection/mites but it has to be said she was very speshul


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## LittleBlackMule (14 February 2013)

I'm a first time poster in this forum, but had to reply to this thread as it instantly reminded me of our old GSD - 

Do his legs go quite stiff during these episodes?


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## ecrozier (14 February 2013)

Oh no, poor milo! Never heard of such symptoms but will keep fingers crossed. Does he improve as he gets moving or not really?


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## HeatherAnn (14 February 2013)

cbmcts said:



			This may be completely wrong but has anyone had a good look at his ears?

My little JRT used to go 'crooked' whenever she was brewing an ear infection/mites but it has to be said she was very speshul 

Click to expand...

Mine gets a bit crooked if he has ear mites  but only in his face, one of his ears and a bit of his mouth go droopy. This happens before any itching  I also have one with ishoos


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## ihatework (14 February 2013)

His ears haven't been checked, so I'll add that to the list to check, thank you.

LBM his legs don't seem to go stiff, he keeps moving and seems to straighten out a bit at speed and then curl up again at a slower speed.

He doesn't appear to show obvious pain (and he is a dog that let's you know!) but he is extra clingy and his mannerism just isn't right.

Fairly worrying tbh. Hopefully it's just a trapped nerve somewhere


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## CAYLA (14 February 2013)

Would you say he walks stiff when these episodes occur/looked hunched at all/stiff in the body (rigid)?, how long does it take to straighten up and walk on again? is he eating ok (no gulping) urinating ok?


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## ihatework (14 February 2013)

I wouldn't say he looked particularly stiff, but hunched could sort of describe it, but only from pelvis back really.


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## Alec Swan (14 February 2013)

I'm not a Vet,  in any way,  but I've had coursing dogs which have displayed similar symptoms.  Such symptoms can be indicative of just about anything which is a spinal issue,  and generally,  WITHOUT XRAYS,  WHICH GENERALLY REVEAL NOTHING,  I've found that experienced and clever manipulation,  from one who's experienced,  has,  to date,  always been the answer.

Xrays will never reveal muscle,  or tissue damage.  Xrays are to do with bone.

Find yourself a decent canine,  or even equine,  chiropractor,  they exist. 

Alec.


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## noodle_ (14 February 2013)

sticking my neck out here......


talks ot my dog having yet more x-rays  - i opted for thermal imagining.  she had her scan today

its non invasive (they DO NOT touch your dog)....non traumatic and shows soft tissue not bones (kinda like an MRI?)

mine cost me the grand sum of £100. .... and i can claim it back on the insurance.

just a thought?


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## ihatework (14 February 2013)

OK, back on PC so can type more coherently!

Eating fine, urinating fine. 4 days ago had a big (elephant sized) accident overnight which is VERY unlike this dog. I wondered if he had been constipated and if it would resolve, but I'd say it's got worse since then.

I have a great osteopath, who fixed his hip issue when the vets were useless. She is currently laid up and not working for another couple of weeks, plus he has gone much worse in the last couple of days - I think she would be reluctant to treat without vet permission at the moment, and vets are gunning for the full monty.

I've uploaded this video - it's him at his worst, the crookedness is still obvious outside but he moves far more freely than this video might suggest. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlM_hzkCPMA


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## Dobiegirl (14 February 2013)

That video is worrying, If it was my dog I would definately take to the vet. He looks a lovely dog and his tale didnt stop wagging a typical Lab.


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## Aru (14 February 2013)

Thats a concerning video. I would be pushing for further diagnostics sooner rather than later as he looks very uncomfortable.

 How often does he have these episodes?How long do they last?any triggers...just up out of bed?after exercise...jumping off couch etc?

What sort of pain trial/anti-inflammatory was he on?

I would definitely be looking for hips and spinal xrays with no response to an anti-inflammatory due to his stilted walk and posture....sooner rather than later.

Short list of my potential thoughts from watching the video on its own...

No 1..Muscular pain in lower back/muscle injury/cramping (would expect a response to anti inflams in these cases so now an unlikely cause)
No 2...hip dysplasia ( but would expect some response/changes on manipulation....still age posture and breed a red flag,potentially worse on one side versus the other)
No 3 and currently my high suspicion....Neurological issue... unfortunately many potential causes here.......compression of a spinal nerve/nerves...spinal lesion....potential bony spur on a vertebrae impeding some of the cord or just a slight pressure on a nerve due to a misalignment ... to name but a few.....high potential in this area particularly if he is getting worse over time  
Xrays would help to rule out several of these but are not 100 percent on finding the issues 

How is his toileting? any recent changes... Is he passing water/poo easily? has he been constipated? toileted inside if previously housetrained?


Lovely looking lad..Typical lab though..tail still wagging as much as he can let it!
<<<<<Vibes for you to find a source of this>>>>>>>>


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## noodle_ (15 February 2013)

as above after seeing the vid!!

definately be pushing the vet to investigate further......... i wouldnt be entertaining a physio at this point - a cause and answer is needed from a vet  imo!


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## PucciNPoni (15 February 2013)

noodle_ said:



			as above after seeing the vid!!

definately be pushing the vet to investigate further......... i wouldnt be entertaining a physio at this point - a cause and answer is needed from a vet  imo!
		
Click to expand...

yeh, I would agree with that too (poor boy!)

It does remind me a bit of the way my MinPin was behaving when she slipped a disc.  I kept saying she was "crabbing".  She walked with a bit of a head tilt as well.  I thought she'd had a stroke!  So definitely back to vets to try to get more answers.  Second opinion from a different practice if need be, if it were my dog!

Best of luck!


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## Dizzydancer (15 February 2013)

Oh poor boy- i would be with all above. 
Push for the mri and xray as soon as possible. He looks uncomfy bless him that tail is cute.


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## Superhot (15 February 2013)

Had he been swimming before this episode?  Whereabouts in the country are you?  There is a specialist canine osteopathic surgery in Fakenham (Norfolk) and I'm sure they would be able to identify the problem, alternatively, if you are in the Oxford area, ask for a referral to Chris Day (Faringdon) homeopathic vet who could feel what the problem is.  Do you have a canine hydro therapist who is also a physiotherapist you could take your dog to?  I really hope you can get him sorted soon, poor lad...


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## Dizzydancer (15 February 2013)

Superhot- what makes you ask about swimming just intrigued?


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## Superhot (16 February 2013)

Dizzydancer said:



			Superhot- what makes you ask about swimming just intrigued?
		
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Before I had seen the video, the symptoms sounded a bit like 'wet tail' which apparently dogs can get if they do a lot of swimming all of a sudden.  My friends Lab has had it twice, the tail hangs to one side, but it is very painful, so I don't think it's 'wet tail' in this particular instance...


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## Dizzydancer (16 February 2013)

Oh thanks. Will now know what's up with my lab if that happens!


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## Alec Swan (16 February 2013)

Superhot said:



			....... There is a specialist canine osteopathic surgery in Fakenham (Norfolk) .......
		
Click to expand...

I live at Fakenham,  so who are they?

Alec.


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## Kathyt1 (16 February 2013)

Although it is unlikely your dog has this condition it might be worth baring in mind as it is quite often not diagnosed and dogs can be PTS due to the vet not knowing about it.  A friends 12 year old lab bitch had this and made a full recovery, but had her vet not known, the most obviouse and kind decision would have been PTS as the dog could not use its hind legs at all.  Again, it proberbly is not this but something more simple, just thought it would be good for you to know about it.

http://www.petdig.com/info/pet/distal-denervating-disease/821/


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## Dizzydancer (18 February 2013)

Any update?


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## ihatework (18 February 2013)

Interesting about the wet tail & DDD - I don't think it's either of these but always useful to keep in back of mind for the future 

Milo had his drugs changed and had a quiet weekend - He has shown a lot of improvement, straightened up a lot but still has that hunched and slightly crooked stance with the tail low and off to the left.

He has been admitted to the vets and is probably under GA now, while the poke, prod, xray and do whatever else is needed. 

And interesting fact of the day - they need to rule out lungworm, which can apparently cause bleeds into the spine. I worm with drontal, which doesn't cover lungworm.


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## Dizzydancer (18 February 2013)

Oh that is interesting and appears more common now.
 Fingers crossed you get an answer today and all goes well x


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## wren123 (18 February 2013)

Just wondering how things went this morning, have been thinking about your dog and hoping it all went well.


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## ihatework (18 February 2013)

wren123 said:



			Just wondering how things went this morning, have been thinking about your dog and hoping it all went well.
		
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Milo says thank you for thinking about him!

Results aren't straightforward or over conclusive.

Essentially 3 things have shown up
1) A bone spur on one of the vertebra at the top underside of his tail, the significance of which is not clear as the vet did a rectal exam and couldn't get a pain response.

2) A definite narrowing of one of his joints up near his neck, possibly prolapse 

3) Xrays of his hips and sacro were good, no obvious issues. However these were done under GA and the vets have to position the legs in a certain way, while they were doing this, even under GA he was resisting and waking up. Vet convinced there is some sort of hip/sacro pain.

So we are a bit stuck in no mans land at the moment. Vet is at a conference on Wednesday and there is a spinal specialist there so she is going to take everything along with her and discuss the case.

Short term rest, cartrophen, keep up the strong anti-inflamms / painkillers with a view to osteopathy & acupuncture & aquatherapy down the line if he keeps improving. If he doesn't improve then he'll probably have an MRI on that dodgy neck area.

Poor lad, I nearly didn't come home with him, but only because everyone at vets were planning on taking him home!


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## Dizzydancer (18 February 2013)

Oh no was hoping for more clearer news! 
However at least you have some idea- and a short term plan. 
Just a point but our hydro girls are amazing at spotting things as they see so many cases and sometimes not all vets do.
And i would echo an earlier post and look at getting a thermal image scan just to have a idea of pain areas- they arent to expensive.


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## wren123 (18 February 2013)

Ah give Milo a big cuddle from me!

Sorry you got nothing conclusive at least nothing nasty showed up. Hopefully the chat with the spine specialist will be helpful.


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## ihatework (15 April 2013)

I don't know if anyone is interested in an update but I'm afraid the news isn't great. We did 6 weeks of anti inflams, no exercise and Osteo treatments. Unfortunately within a fortnight of stopping this he had relapsed.

Today he had an MRI and they clearly reveal the problem, the lumber sacro vertebra is damaged and he has a fairly pronounced spinal chord compression.

Just awaiting a 3rd opinion on whether its operable


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## MurphysMinder (15 April 2013)

Oh what a shame.  A friends bitch had an operation to relieve spinal cord compression after what sounds like a similar injury, it was a long recovery but she went on to have several more years.  I hope the 3rd opinion gives you more ideas and guidance as to whether surgery is an option.


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## Dizzydancer (15 April 2013)

Oh bless you- i hope the 3rd opinion gives answer you are after. Bless your poor boy.
Thanks do update tho x


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## Booboos (15 April 2013)

So sorry to hear that.

Dizzy was operated on for spinal cord compression twice and had a hard time building up muscle afterwards (although his degenerative myelopathy took over at some stage). Get a few opinions to see if there are any alternatives to surgery. I would also querry why he is not in any pain with a spinal cord compression before you put him through the op.


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## windand rain (16 April 2013)

Not read all the replies but cold tail wet tail broken tail or what ever you want to call it is quite common in labs. A lot of vets dont recognise it and cannot find any reason for this phenomenon 
My lab recently had it she is fine now and back running about as normal often associated with swimming in cold water, wagging their tail a lot and/or a bang on a door frame etc. Appears to be very painful to start a bit like cramp in humans but she like a gentle massage over her rump
This is the second time this has happened very worrying to start with but once you know what it is it is a bit less worrying and although it looks very dramatic it is relatively harmless


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## horseperson (16 April 2013)

So sorry to here about Milo hope the third opinion helps


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## Superhot (16 April 2013)

Sorry Alec, just realised I hadn't replied about the specialist orthopaedic vets in Fakenham, and I think it is  http://www.grovereferrals.co.uk/.  Are these the vets helping Milo?  At least you're getting to the root of the problem.  I sometimes look after a gorgeous Lab who has similar neck problem and had a successful operation.  Fingers crossed for you.


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