# Jakata out and Reserves named for Olympics



## DarkHorseB (18 June 2012)

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/olympics2012/7632/313013.html

Sorry if this has already been posted


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## Alfami (18 June 2012)

It's disappointing that Jakata is out.  Has Topper done a 4*?  Piggy is obviously very confident that he'll be fine and he was awesome last year at the test event.


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## cefyl (18 June 2012)

A bit surprised given team GB past strength had always been a consistent and reliable pathfinder for the xc that Nicola Wilson has now not been brought in.  Ok saddened is more to the point.


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## DarkHorseB (18 June 2012)

No he hasn't done a 4* yet and whilst you can compare to Miners Frolic record in that respect MF did not have 20 penalties XC at his last outing before the Olympics either 
Agree disappointing to see Opposition Buzz dropped in favour of him imo


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## charlimouse (18 June 2012)

cefyl said:



			A bit surprised given team GB past strength had always been a consistent and reliable pathfinder for the xc that Nicola Wilson has now not been brought in.  Ok saddened is more to the point.
		
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Ditto


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## DarkHorseB (18 June 2012)

charlimouse said:



			Ditto 

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Also I am sure somewhere I saw that Nicola was named as first reserve - however per the announcement on BE today they don't seem to rate the reserves in any order (other than alphabetical)


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## charlimouse (18 June 2012)

DarkHorseB said:



			Also I am sure somewhere I saw that Nicola was named as first reserve - however per the announcement on BE today they don't seem to rate the reserves in any order (other than alphabetical) 

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Yes I had heard NW and OB were first reserves. I was also surprised it is simply in alphabetical order on BE .


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## mahonenx (20 June 2012)

Alfami said:



			It's disappointing that Jakata is out.  Has Topper done a 4*?  Piggy is obviously very confident that he'll be fine and he was awesome last year at the test event.
		
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Doesn't matter that he hasn't done 4*. The olympics are only 3* anyway.


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## lannerch (20 June 2012)

But topper was never a reserve he was aways first choice it was originally topper or Jakarta with probably topper as favourite


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## SpottedCat (20 June 2012)

mahonenx said:



			Doesn't matter that he hasn't done 4*. The olympics are only 3* anyway.
		
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No they're not, they are 4*


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## charlimouse (20 June 2012)

mahonenx said:



			Doesn't matter that he hasn't done 4*. The olympics are only 3* anyway.
		
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Olympics are 4*, however some combinations may have alternatives that are at 3* level to allow the riders from less well known eventing nations to get round.


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## Johnboy1 (20 June 2012)

charlimouse said:



			Olympics are 4*, however some combinations may have alternatives that are at 3* level to allow the riders from less well known eventing nations to get round.
		
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The Olympics are most definately only a 3 star , and have been since Sydney .................. the only 4 star Championship now is the World equestrian games  . Therefore 4 star form is not relevant in the horses selected , but their potential ability to be in the madal positions a a 3 star Olympic games at in London ..............


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## Santa_Claus (20 June 2012)

Johnboy1 said:



			The Olympics are most definately only a 3 star , and have been since Sydney .................. the only 4 star Championship now is the World equestrian games  . Therefore 4 star form is not relevant in the horses selected , but their potential ability to be in the madal positions a a 3 star Olympic games at in London ..............
		
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I think you will find they are 4* as were changed back 

http://www.britisheventing.com/asp-net/Events/Results.aspx?MeetingID=822


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## SpottedCat (20 June 2012)

Johnboy1 said:



			The Olympics are most definately only a 3 star , and have been since Sydney .................. the only 4 star Championship now is the World equestrian games  . Therefore 4 star form is not relevant in the horses selected , but their potential ability to be in the madal positions a a 3 star Olympic games at in London ..............
		
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No, no they are really not. They are 4*.


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## MillionDollar (20 June 2012)

You learn something new everyday...........I also thought the Olympics was 3*, not 4*, until now


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## Johnboy1 (20 June 2012)

On paper they are still termed as a 4star , as the IOC like to think it is the top level, but in reality they are only 3 star....................... so enough nations can be involved successfully and we can stay in the Olympics as a sport ................... ( acceptable dumbing down of the sport and politics ) the last true 4 star Olympics was Sydney, which of course was also long format .............................


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## TableDancer (21 June 2012)

IF the system for the reserves is the same as it is for the ponies, I can shed some light  Reserves are listed only in alphabetical order until whatever the last squad run is - presumably Barbury for most of the Olympic combinations (as it is for us...) The squad is confirmed and the first reserve is named following a trot up for the vets the day after the competition. Having said that, it is quite possible/probable that someone, maybe Nicola, has been given a strong indication that she is currently in unofficial first reserve position


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## Madhope (21 June 2012)

i know the course builders well and i'm 99% positive that it is 3*, the test event was 2 *, but i maybe wrong, hence horses not having done a 4* isn't an issue, i can't see Yogi picking horses that hadn't competed at the said level for the Olympics especially on home turf!!!


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## SpottedCat (21 June 2012)

Madhope said:



			i know the course builders well and i'm 99% positive that it is 3*, the test event was 2 *, but i maybe wrong, hence horses not having done a 4* isn't an issue, i can't see Yogi picking horses that hadn't competed at the said level for the Olympics especially on home turf!!!
		
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From Page 64 of the FEI Rules for Eventing (bold is my addition):

Article 540 OLYMPIC GAMES
Every four years, Eventing in the Olympic Games will be organised under the patronage of the International Olympic Committee (IOC). The Olympic Three Day Event is for Seniors.* It will be conducted at the Four Star level* in accordance with the &#8220;Special Regulations for Equestrian Events at the Olympic Games&#8221;.

ETA: And Yogi isn't one of the panel of selectors anyway is he? I'm pretty sure he isn't.


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## popsdosh (21 June 2012)

SpottedCat said:



			From Page 64 of the FEI Rules for Eventing (bold is my addition):

Article 540 OLYMPIC GAMES
Every four years, Eventing in the Olympic Games will be organised under the patronage of the International Olympic Committee (IOC). The Olympic Three Day Event is for Seniors.* It will be conducted at the Four Star level* in accordance with the Special Regulations for Equestrian Events at the Olympic Games.
		
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I am sure you and most people will be very surprised to see any true 4* fences and combinations on the CC


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## SpottedCat (21 June 2012)

popsdosh said:



			I am sure you and most people will be very surprised to see any true 4* fences and combinations on the CC
		
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Is that not a bit like saying that because (for example) West Wilts has a fairly easy first timers track at each level, it isn't really running BE90/100/Novice level events?! Or that because the early Aston le Walls are known to be good places to step up to the next level, they aren't really intermediate or advanced tracks? 

I think there will be enough issues from even experienced 4* combinations that this will be a 4* test. I don't think that because it may not be the toughest 4* track in the world, that means it won't be 4*.


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## kerilli (21 June 2012)

Johnboy1 said:



			On paper they are still termed as a 4star , as the IOC like to think it is the top level, but in reality they are only 3 star....................... so enough nations can be involved successfully and we can stay in the Olympics as a sport ................... ( acceptable dumbing down of the sport and politics ) the last true 4 star Olympics was Sydney, which of course was also long format .............................
		
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This, exactly. 
They say in writing that it is 4*, and that is the official party line, but in fact it will be 3* with, perhaps, extra difficulty (but not absolute max dimensions in combinations etc) thrown in.
They just cannot risk annihilating the riders from lesser nations whose participation (and survival!) is vital to keeping Eventing in the Olympics. It's all about nice pictures too... at the last true 4* Olympics (Sydney) one nasty sight accidentally got televised worldwide iirc.
I don't envy the course designers, because building a track that'll test the very best in the world properly, but not annihilate the rest, won't be easy... and having a couple of huge but tricky direct routes won't do it, in case the others think they're on for them!
As said above, if it was going to be a true 4*, I can't see a horse who hasn't done one yet getting selected, however great the jockey.


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## popsdosh (21 June 2012)

SpottedCat said:



			Is that not a bit like saying that because (for example) West Wilts has a fairly easy first timers track at each level, it isn't really running BE90/100/Novice level events?! Or that because the early Aston le Walls are known to be good places to step up to the next level, they aren't really intermediate or advanced tracks? 

I think there will be enough issues from even experienced 4* combinations that this will be a 4* test. I don't think that because it may not be the toughest 4* track in the world, that means it won't be 4*.
		
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I am not questioning that it is described as 4 star and I agree with you about different courses being more difficult than others however we will all have a shock if we see a true 4* championship course at Greenwich.Time I am sure will be tight.
I am sure that the team has been selected knowing what the course has in store. To be quite honest YB has a big perch to fall off if he has got it wrong!


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## SpottedCat (21 June 2012)

K - do we ever get absolute max dimensions in combinations even at 4*? I am not convinced! We get max dimensions on horrible rider frighteners, and tables etc. But usually combinations rely on accuracy rather than being the humungous massive 'I could live in that' fences you see elsewhere don't they?

PD - yep, agreed if they have got their predictions wrong it'll be a big fall! It's certainly going to be interesting given the bold forward strides and hatred of frangible pins that Pierre Michelet has a history of!


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## kerilli (21 June 2012)

hmm, good point, maybe watching Sydney confused me... I am sure that some of those fences (the house which was the second part of the bounce, which element was the 3rd of a 4 part combo iirc) was max dimensions! 
what about those boxes they used at Burghley a few years ago for the S fence, I think they were pretty much max dimensions. 
I know what you mean though.


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## Santa_Claus (21 June 2012)

I can tell you 'my' fence aka one I designed for burghley comp about 5/6 years ago which has been reused a few times was def not max dimensions but was regulary included as part of a combination. It was very skinny though so caught out riders that way and expect to see similar at the Olympics. Several evil skinnies to test accuracy and a tight time. There will without doubt be one particular difficult fence like the double brushes at Beijing whic will have a nice but horrendously time consuming alternative so lesser riders can finish with a stack of time penalties but the better riders will have to very very accurate or else risk 20 penalties. 

It will be a twisty course and I foresee a lot of alternatives giving two options a very technical 4* level course where if you motor round all the direct routes you might get the time or a 'nice' 3* route of alternatives which will take ages to get round!

There isnt much dimension wise between a 3 and 4* it is to me more about the accuracy and technical questions that make the difference!


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## Rafferoo (21 June 2012)

Deleted - duplication!


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## Rafferoo (21 June 2012)

Having seen the test event and tagged along behind the team GB course walk (where some of the olympic fences that were being built were pointed out) I think it will be one of the more challenging olympic courses of recent years mainly by way of the terrain/technicality.  It makes Burghley look flat so lets hope everybody has got their horses very fit!!

Oh and I am another that is suprised that Topper made it in over buzz!


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## vallin (21 June 2012)

I can't remember where I read this but think it was HHO that was basically saying if the combinations took all the direct routes then it would be a true 4*, but to accommodate all nations at the bigger/more complex 4* fences there would be a time consuming 3* equivalent level alternatives.


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## Rafferoo (21 June 2012)

One of the fences Yogi pointed out to the team was close to the coffin and looked like it was going to become the most scary into space imaginable!


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