# H&H pentathlon article



## highjinx (25 August 2012)

Re horse and hound article , 23-08-12
I am very disappointed to see that you have written a half page article on how bad the riding is in modern pentathlon but could only spare a few words on the fact that we WON a silver medal!
No the riding is not wonderful but it is no worse than what you see every day at national shows and events with people who are riding there own horses, and how would some of the people who have complained about this event cope with riding a strange horse and jumping a 1.20m course, most of them wouldn't have the bottle to do it.
Yes a lot of people were expecting to see a standard of riding on a level with professional riders but how many professional riders can fence, swim, shoot and run?
I understand the standard of riding needs to be improved and it has and is improving all the time through the hard work of people within the sport.

As for the falls. Being jumped off and falling off, this happens at the highest level. Not seeing a stride THEY ARE NOT PROFESSIONAL RIDERS plus I am sure I saw some of our Olympic eventers and show jumpers miss a stride or two and end up on the floor.
So please give the pentathletes some credit for being brave, this may not be there best discipline out of the five but how many people do you know would take on this challenging and demanding sport.


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## TarrSteps (25 August 2012)

I give them all the credit - they are amazing athletes and deserve the upmost respect.  I would disagree, however, that's a level of riding that would pass without comment at a national show jumping 1.20.

There is also the problem that there are living, breathing animals involved and 'we' (including the IOC) are getting less tolerant of the idea of horses as mere sporting equipment. Things were different in the days of cavalry.

I'm surprised that no one seems interested in alternatives. Surely removing the riding would make the whole thing much safer and easier to stage? What about mountain biking or similar as a replacement? I know that flies in the face of tradition but sport is always in flux.


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## Mike007 (25 August 2012)

Too many riders riding the wrong kind of horse. It is no good using "one rider " showjumpers for MP . You need the likes of "trinney", hunter/ showjumper and clear round with the Hungarian bronze medalist. Oddly enough ,Trinneys owner visited me today and cautiosly asked whether it was Me /I that had said various nice things about her ladyship.I had to confess.


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## TarrSteps (26 August 2012)

Well, yes, horses that do that job for a living will probably cope well. But if they can't find enough of that sort for the Olympics, in the UK, where there are arguably more of that type than in most counties, what does that mean for the sport as a whole? 

When there were legions of remounts available it was very different. And a few countries may have enough of those weight carrying, solid-but-athletic types around, but the debacle in Beijing shows what happens when that is not the case.

It's great that some horses coped well but it was pretty grim for the ones that did not and their riders.


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## jaquelin (26 August 2012)

A badly written article with a number of errors, I'm afraid. If H&H had taken the time to do their research the article would have been more balanced. I watched all of men's & was there for the women's & I stand by my assessment: 10% wincingly bad, 25% reasonably well-ridden, the rest so-so. Not worth getting knickers in a twist for frankly & does not merit discussion/criticism it is getting.


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## highjinx (26 August 2012)

Anyone who competes will tell you horses are sporting equipment if they weren't we wouldn't have equine sport.
You see riding like that at unaffiliated shows  and affiliate  at least with pentathlon the riders are only on board for a max of half an hour and the horse go back to there owners just think about those poor horses at local shows who are ridden badly, and abused and are ridden every day by the same person it just puts it into perspective
And if we are so worried about injury to horse and rider why haven we band the xcountry in the eventing


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## Koala Kate (26 August 2012)

For heaven's sake ! Yes , you can see riding just as bad as this at local shows, BUT these riders are supposed to be Olympic standard ! NOT local show standard


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## Aperchristmastree (26 August 2012)

Koala Kate said:



			For heaven's sake ! Yes , you can see riding just as bad as this at local shows, BUT these riders are supposed to be Olympic standard ! NOT local show standard
		
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Exactly this ^^

I worked at the World Pentathlon Championships 4/5 years ago and the standard was appalling.  It was so bad I couldn't watch.  Yes I admire them for their bravery but frankly that doesn't make a difference to the horse.  

Team GB have improved massively, I had the pleasure of watching them train just before the Olympics but even they had a few issues that needed ironing out.  Yes they have to do 4 other sports but all the athletes should be Olympic standard.  Something has to change.

I also know a few of the horses who were used for the 2012 Olympics.  They are all very nice straight forward horses and it was quite interesting watching them as most errors were manmade.  That's why it drives me crazy when the athletes complain because the horses, for 2012 at least, are absolutely fantastic.


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## MerrySherryRider (26 August 2012)

highjinx said:



			Anyone who competes will tell you horses are sporting equipment if they weren't we wouldn't have equine sport.
		
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That isn't an attitude I've encountered thankfully. Quite the opposite, however, fortunately, the professionals I know in eventing are real horsemen/women who have the utmost respect for their horses.
 I guess you may have a point in regard to people such as Patrick Kittell and co. but that's the difference between ego and horsemanship. 

The athletes in the pentathlon do no service to the sport with their jack-of-all-trades, master of none, approach. The riding element should be discontinued if they haven't the time or skill to reach a decent level of competency. Its disturbing to watch as it is now.


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## highjinx (26 August 2012)

What should the standard be? Same as the eventing. Remember these are not professional rider


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## stolensilver (26 August 2012)

I think the answer to this lies in the importance the pentathletes put on riding. Many will train 5 or 6 days a week at running, 2 days a week fencing and shooting and 2 days a MONTH riding. 

The solution would be to change the rules and make the riding a make or break part of the competition. A fall of horse or rider and you're eliminated. You cannot go round a fence if you've had 3 refusals at it. You get eliminated instead. 

Because horses are not just a piece of sporting equipment they should be given more weight in this competition. The appaling standard of riding will not improve until that happens. As things are Modern Pentathlon should not be an Olympic sport.


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## Koala Kate (26 August 2012)

They shouldn't be in the Olympics if they are not professional in their sport !


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## MerrySherryRider (26 August 2012)

Well, I guess the problem is, that if the olympic standard of this element is so poor, then the riding should be abandoned.

Being a a world class athlete is surely not about being the best of a mediocre bunch, but rather, raising the bar, inspiring people and being exceptional.

Watching the pentathlon show jumping was certainly uninspiring.


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## teapot (26 August 2012)

Koala Kate said:



			For heaven's sake ! Yes , you can see riding just as bad as this at local shows, BUT these riders are supposed to be Olympic standard ! NOT local show standard
		
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Olympic pentathlete standard, not Olympic equestrian standard - there's a difference. The whole idea of MP is that they are not at the highest/professional level of all 5 sports, that would be pretty damn impossible, instead they have a lower standard across the board. 

Every MP rider has to have their riding assessed before competing intentionally so one would assume the international MP federation knows there should be a standard. If that standard is too low, that's the Federation's fault, not the individual competitor.  

You're also forgetting that given the lack of funding for MP outside of the wealthy sports countries, a lot of the competitors actually still work full time to fund their sports. There's no way you could work full time and compete at a professional level but  the funding's too bad for competitors to stop working.


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## highjinx (26 August 2012)

well said teapot,


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## highjinx (26 August 2012)

I think everyone is missing the point, we all know the riding has to be improved and it is, what im saying is the athletes are world class at there sport, all sports are different. YES this is an Olympic sport, it is the only sport that was invented for the Olympics it is the true Olympic sport, there are talks going on as we speak about how to improve the riding, a lot has already been done in this country to improve it, yes the riding should carry more weight with in the competition to force athletes to improve and its hopefully going to happen, but please give these athletes the credit they deserve, they qualified for the Olympics and competed and won well earned medals how many of you here can say that! dont take it away from them just because they don't ride to a high standard it is a difficult sport, well done to them all.


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## Rowreach (26 August 2012)

I think the H&H article was a fair reflection of the opinions expressed on here in a couple of threads which ran at the time of the competition.

I find the idea that the horses are considered to be pieces of sporting equipment quite frankly abhorrent.  I think the SJ element should be dropped from the MP, for the sake of the horses.  The picture which accompanied the article, of the rider clearly pulling that horse over backwards, should be enough to ensure that this happens.

The argument that the standard for the MP disciplines has to be lower than that for pure disciplines is all very well when it is a matter of not running as fast, not shooting as accurately, not swimming as well and being a bit c*** at fencing, but I don't think it washes when it involves horses.

I appreciate it is not easy having a 20 minute familiarisation period with a strange horse, then jumping a course of up to 1.20m in a huge arena in front of an enormous crowd and tv cameras, but I still feel more sorry for the horses than impressed by the riders.


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## TGM (26 August 2012)

I would hate to see the equestrian aspect of modern pentathlon dropped.  Apart from the aspect of tradition (pentathlon testing the abilities of soldiers who need to be able to run, swim, shoot, fence and ride), it would be gutting for those young horse-riders currently competing lower down the levels in pentathlon and tetrathlon if suddenly the sport was changed so radically.

There are many different options that should be investigated first:

* Changing the ride scoring (as detailed above) as regarding refusals and falls.

* Tightening the assessment of riders before competition to ensure a higher standard.

* Possibly lowering the height of the course, to make it easier to find a good number of steady and laid-back horses for the athletes to ride.

* Increasing the time and number of jumps allowed for the athletes to familarize themselves with their new mounts before entering the ring.


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## Rowreach (26 August 2012)

But wouldn't that just "dumb down" the SJ aspect of the sport?  Wouldn't it be better to replace it with another discipline which the athletes could actually do to a suitably high standard?  I'm all for tradition, but if we stuck to it then the majority of Olympic sports wouldn't exist, but we might still be throwing Christians to lions in the name of sport/entertainment 

There was nothing wrong with the horses used this time.  They mostly all did the first half of the course with enthusiasm.  As they became more and more confused and fed up, the problems (and faults) starting to accumulate rapidly.  The only way forward as I see it, if SJ is to continue being a part of MP, is to have a load of riding school plods jumping a course of 80cm


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## TGM (26 August 2012)

No I don't think it would dumb it down as long as you didn't go too small.  I think if you went just a little smaller (say maximum 1 metre) you would find a wider selection of slightly forgiving horses like the lovely roan (was it called Trinidad?) and need less of the more sensitive, fizzy types (like the chestnut that went over backwards).

Obviously, this would be in addition to the other measures mentioned above.  But seems rather an over-reaction to remove the equestrian part of the sport without trying less radical forms of improvement first.


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## Rowreach (26 August 2012)

I suppose the trouble is that they thought they'd addressed the problems after Beijing, and they clearly haven't.  My concern is how many "experimental" Olympics are they going to have to have before they reach the acceptable level, whilst still maintaining it as an Olympic discipline?

PS if they could clone Trinny we'd all be laughing


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## TGM (26 August 2012)

Whilst London wasn't perfect, it was a huge improvement on Beijing and if the powers that be take on a lot of the suggestions that have be made, I'm sure the next Olympics will see a much more acceptable standard of riding in pentathlon.

All the major equestrian sports have had welfare concerns of various times at top level over the years, and steps have been made to improve things for the horses, rather than banning the sport completely.  I hope the same proves true for pentathlon.


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## christine48 (26 August 2012)

I take my hat off to them. To ride a strange horse around a 1.20 track, how many of us could do it. To be honest the standard of riding wasn't any worse than what you sometimes see at national shows where riders are riding their own horses around a smaller track.
Maybe there could be some system where the horses are drawn and the riders have the opportunity to ride their allotted horse more than once before the competition.


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## helen75 (26 August 2012)

Koala Kate said:



			For heaven's sake ! Yes , you can see riding just as bad as this at local shows, BUT these riders are supposed to be Olympic standard ! NOT local show standard
		
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Agree with this too. I thought it such a shame to see such wonderful exhibitions of horsemanship at this venue earlier in the week and then we were subjected to this shambles. Get rid of the SJ phase or lower the jumps considerably. Simple. Nobody wants to see this in an Olympic arena. Fact.


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## helen75 (26 August 2012)

""To be honest the standard of riding wasn't any worse than what you sometimes see at national shows where riders are riding their own horses around a smaller track""

And the world doesn't want to watch the above so why should we be subjected to this at the Olympics?? Hardly inspiring is it?


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## Koala Kate (26 August 2012)

Thank you Helen ! 
I've yet to see the world's press at my local show  lol


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## Xander (26 August 2012)

Lower the fences to 1m and introduce a mark for horsemanship. So those riders who do the right things, such as not socking the horse in the gob on the approach to a fence or otherwise booting it around, are rewarded. The score for a polished riding performance should cancel out - say - two fences down? That should give some incentive to the riders who are currently winging it to have a few more lessons.


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## Mike007 (26 August 2012)

A fundamental problem with the current MP format is that it was devised for television . In its original format ,there was a x country ride which was basicly an uncomplicated BE novice standard.The advent of television (and the clunky tv cameras of the day )ment that it needed to be in one restricted location ). The "new" showjumps,were seen as ideal for this. The result has been a steady decline in the importance of riding ability. There is now absolutely no reason why the sport cannot return to a x country based ride. It  would also give riders a blooming strong incentive to learn to ride.


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## Koala Kate (26 August 2012)

Anything to avoid the car crash that was the 2012 Olympics


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## highjinx (27 August 2012)

I think you will be seeing some changes, and yes it is inspiring to those who do the sport and to those who wouldn't take on the themselves, anyway no one was forced to sit and watch and if you watched with the only intention to criticise, that is wrong.
no the world press don't go to normal shows and it they did would everyone be demanding that these competitions should be band because of bad riding?


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## Honey08 (27 August 2012)

stolensilver said:



			change the rules and make the riding a make or break part of the competition. A fall of horse or rider and you're eliminated. You cannot go round a fence if you've had 3 refusals at it. You get eliminated instead. 

.
		
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Yes I think this would be better, with a smaller course.



Koala Kate said:



			They shouldn't be in the Olympics if they are not professional in their sport !
		
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Up until recently Olympians were not allowed to be professional and who has ever heard of a pro pentathlon athlete...  



Xander said:



			Lower the fences to 1m and introduce a mark for horsemanship. So those riders who do the right things, such as not socking the horse in the gob on the approach to a fence or otherwise booting it around, are rewarded. The score for a polished riding performance should cancel out - say - two fences down? That should give some incentive to the riders who are currently winging it to have a few more lessons.
		
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I think the mark for riding is the way forward, but doubt it will happen.

Interesting to hear it used to be XC - I guess that would take more preparation.


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## Wizzkid (27 August 2012)

What ever way you slice it, it was scary to watch. 
I agree that it should be changed for the safety of the riders & horses.


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## silu (27 August 2012)

Gawd suggesting it would be better that it was a x country test! Safer??? If they make the show jumps all at the height they were at the beginning of round this Olympics then they should change the discipline to hurdling as that is what the majority of riders were doing. Give them bikes to ride over the BMX course. All the competitors would have the same equipment so no lottery involved with who gets which horse and no big deal if a few bikes get trashed .


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## PucciNPoni (27 August 2012)

Koala Kate said:



			They shouldn't be in the Olympics if they are not professional in their sport !
		
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Eh???  Actually, it's not all that long ago that professionals were even allowed to compete at hte Olympics.  Olympics has always had a tradition of being amatures.  And was it not at Beijing that a dentist by profession (from Germany) took a medal (gold?) in the Eventing?  He's not a professional rider - just a bloody good one!


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## Koala Kate (27 August 2012)

Or Space Hoppers !


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## Koala Kate (27 August 2012)

Shame, he wasn't present at London 2012!  May well have saved the event from being a laughing stock !


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## Koala Kate (27 August 2012)

Where live animals are concerned, its essential that their welfare is paramount. It was so painful for any true horse lover to watch . Mouth jabbing , kicking and whacking when the novices didn't understand how to ride a horse


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## KingfisherBlue (29 August 2012)

Xander said:



			Lower the fences to 1m and introduce a mark for horsemanship. So those riders who do the right things, such as not socking the horse in the gob on the approach to a fence or otherwise booting it around, are rewarded. The score for a polished riding performance should cancel out - say - two fences down? That should give some incentive to the riders who are currently winging it to have a few more lessons.
		
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I agree that that is a very good suggestion. There's something very satisfying about winning or getting well placed in such a competition 

In the Modern Pentathlon, it could even be beneficial for the riders, if after the event, they could read the constructive criticism of the judge/s. In the long run, the riders could then take on board their weak points (!) and improve themselves, especially for the sake of the horses. Have to say that if I'd lent my horses to the M.P. organisers, I'd be furious and wouldn't bother doing it again.

Ps:I found the majority of the Modern Pentathlon jumping cringe-making to watch. I had to pinch myself and say "This is the Olympics?!"


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## pbrequine (27 September 2012)

What page number was this article on?

I also need the page numbers for the following quotes, all from this issue.

Flora Watkins :- 'Is pentathlon jumping up to scratch?'   

A. Mathieson :- 'Riding schools see boom in trade'


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## Darremi (1 October 2012)

The roan horse trinidad was so genuine and sweet. It completely ignored the rider's dodgey signals and jumped all by itself. There was a lovely big chestnut which had two clears in the men's competition, although I think it's riders were actually quite good. What I found strange was the start box they had to go into and halt. Getting the horse going again seemed to flummox some of the riders and I think the chestnut that sadly reared got very upset by being pulled up in the box. Why not have a rolling start line the way SJ and Eventing do in order for the riders to be able to keep the horses going forward?


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