# Protein losing enteropathy?



## carthorse15 (4 January 2011)

Hi I would be interested to hear if anyone has come across this condition?  I have read a couple of  posts about this but there doesn't seem to be an outcome posted.

A few weeks before Christmas my cob started to lose interest in hay, became depressed and drop a bit of weight (normally a good doer).  His sheath swelled overnight.  Vet called out next day, took blood, urine, checked heart, teeth, worm count.  Blood shows low albumin protein - liver, kidneys fine.  Over a couple of days he lost his appetite for hay altogether and would pick at bucket.  He was admitted to hospital for tests, scans, scope, attempted biopsy but too much fluid, nothing remarkable showed up except that he is losing protein.  The only way to obtain a diagnosis is invasive which would require surgery, which I'm not too keen on at the moment and the treatment for any form of gut/bowel inflammation is steroids.  

He was sent home with a 4 week steroid course to see if picks up (dose was increased a few days ago and we are halfway through).  He is on adlib haylage, build-up cubes, alfa a, healthy hoof, oil and sugarbeet - all of which he will pick at.  He continues to lose weight, the sheath swelling his decreased (but not much).

Thank you for reading, I would be grateful for your thoughts.


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## tikino (4 January 2011)

my boy to ill last year and was admitted to glasgow vet school. he had lost weight and appetite. protein levels very low swollen sheath, abdomen and legs. also anemic. he had biopsy's of rectum area and intestinal via gastro scope. he had colitis and it turned out to be worm damage even although worm count was fine. wormed regular;y etc although for 2 years on loan so worming nit monitored by me.

he was put on high dose steroids for 2 months and had other drugs to reduce the damage etc.

keep me posted on your boy


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## carthorse15 (4 January 2011)

Thanks for your reply.  Colitis hasn't been mentioned to me.  I had a look at symptoms, he has no sign of colic pain or distress and has never had diarrhoea.  He is just generally depressed and fading away.  Looks really happy/pleased to see me and wants his bucket food - but when has it loses interest very quickly.  Happily eats carrots/treats and his steroids.


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## cm2581 (4 January 2011)

Can you please phone your vet and ask if the horse has been tested for Lawsonia Intracellularis? They may never have even heard of it. Apologies if they have and he has been!

If he has not been tested please send a fresh faecal sample and a plain (red topped) blood tube so that it can be tested. The lab I work in, Capital Diagnostics (Part of SAC) and Rossdales (Beaufort Cottage Laboratories) are I think the only places in the UK that test for it but I may be wrong. The PCR test will show if the organism is still present in the small intestine and requiring treatment. If the PCR test is negative then the blood can be tested by an IFAT test to detect the presence of antibodies to the organism which would only be present if the horse had been exposed to the organism. There is a treatment for this (I'm not a vet so not sure what it is!). It is most often seen in foals and youngstock but we have had positives from mature horses. It is a big problem in pigs - don't suppose you have or are anywhere near any?


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## carthorse15 (4 January 2011)

Thanks.  I'll check with them tomorrow.  Certainly no mention of it.


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## Chestnutmare (4 January 2011)

Sorry can't help on your situation as my lad also suffered severe colitis...he went downhill so suddenly and that too ended up being from worm damage...long before I got him...but his sheath swelled so big legs infact almost everywhere did....but sadly the outcome for him was not good. 

I hope  that your lad picks up soon, I will be watching this thread with abaited breath...

Tikino - Is Toby still with you?....I never did find out...


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## carthorse15 (4 January 2011)

Thanks for reply Merlywerly and very sorry to hear about your boy.   

Googled 'Lawsonia intra' information and will definately ask vet tomorrow.  Forgot to say we are no where near pigs or other horses.  He has been with the same pony for 8 years with no change in routine, is out 24/7 with access to field shelter and was a very happy, cheery boy.


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## Llwyncwn (4 January 2011)

So sorry to hear that your boy has been diagnosed with this.  Has your vet suggested Lympho-sarcoma?  Has he been prescribed Preds and how many and at what time each day?
There are a number of people on HHO who have experience of this, Catembi is one who can offer advice.  My one experience is not good.  Fingers crossed for you x


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## louised1henry (4 January 2011)

hi,

We are currently battling PLE with my sisters TB.we havent done a update yet as we havent really got any news either way good or bad. but so far this is our saga

We had only brought him 6 weeks before everything started to go seriously wrong(oct 09). we thought it was just worms causing the weight loss and incorrect diet as he had previously just been fed race nuts. so we went down the usual routes,wormed him as previous owners said he was over due,got his teeth done as they were horrendous and tried various feeds but nothing. it just kept dropping of him and dropping of him. and he was depressed and stood in the corner all day windsucking/cribbing.

consulted a vet who took bloods but never run them,said it was our management that was the problem.and that was basically it. but he also said he still had worm burden.so we did panacur. so that got rid of that problem we are now worm free completly.by this time,his old owner had reported us to the ILPH.who have been fantastic i may add...... he and the vet suggested we found long grazing so we did. it was knee/waist high.and in 6 weeks he gained a minisule amount. at this point i was fed up with being made to feel like we were ill treating him and what ever we tried didnt work,and when we kept saying look there is something wrong it fell upon deaf ears.

so we ditched the supposed TB expert vet who deals with alot of race horses and got our usual vet out.who knows us and has done for several years. initially suspected ulcers but wanted to test for PLE first.

so we had the Glucose tests in october 10, 5 lots of glucose and 5 lots of bloods in 5 hours.his levels only went from stavation rate 5.1 to hour 5 it was 5.9. in a normal horse it should of doubled to 10/11..............so the gastro guard was sent back swiftly.didnt matter what we fed him or how much he never would of gained weight.

we are now on a treatment plan on 20 steriod tablets a day.which he seems happier now hes on them, a collar to stop his windsucking and he has some ulcer calm in his feed to settle the stomach acids aswell.

but so far we havent had any weight gain.he has stayed the same. but he isnt allowed all of this weight gain food and mix etc as hes on such a high dose of steriods hes now susceptable to Laminitus. so its a vicious circle.

he lives out the majority of the time but is well rugged as other wise he weaves and box walks like mad. when out they have a large round bale in the field so its adlib. and when hes in he has about 3/4 of a bale of hay a night.so about 15lb i think. feed wise he has ready grass/chaff to bulk it out along with normal mix,sugar beet and bran.

we have till the end of the month to try and make a difference if not its off to the royal equine or newmarket. this was all caused we believe due to incorrect worming and diet even though he was a racer.

please if you suspect it to be PLE catch it quick.we ended up leaving it before we changed vets and if i had done so earlier at the  beginning we may of caught it and sorted it earlier and before it got to bad. hes a fighter to have got this far so fingers crossed. we have exactly the same vet as Miss bird who lost her mare june the other day.he was treating both of them for the same illness. he said in his vet career hes probably only treated under 50 horses with it. we also have the officer from the ilph on side helping us aswell and giving us support.

sorry if ive taken this away from your boy.just trying to give you our dealings.

good luck

xXX


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## carthorse15 (5 January 2011)

Hi

Thanks for taking the time to reply.  Yes, Lymphosarcoma/tumour has been mentioned.  He was on 25 predinisone for a week increased to 36.  The next step is exploratory op which I'm not happy to do on a 15 year horse.

Vet is coming out today as she hasn't seen him for a week or so and is going to take bloods to check protein levels.  When he was in hospital he had the glucose test twice which showed once that he was border line, second test higher, which apparently doesn't give a definitive answer.  There was no change in him this morning.

I'll let you know results when get them.

Thank you.


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## carthorse15 (5 January 2011)

Update: Vet came out.  Agreed that he is still losing and dull but that sheath isn't looking as swollen so perhaps he isn't losing as much protein.  Agreed to continue with steroids for another 4 weeks and see if he picks up.  They have done exhaustive tests (and would have picked up the Lawsonia if present).  Its really a waiting game to see if he is fighting gut inflammation and if steriods help that then he should start to put on weight.  Assured that he is in no pain or distress, just tired.


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## Llwyncwn (8 January 2011)

Carthorse, is there any further update on your boy and did he have a scope?

We had a 14hh 13 yo gelding on the yard a couple of years ago with suspected lymphosarcoma but owner was unwilling to starve and travel him to clinic to be scoped.  He was on 80 preds per day for a month which were given in the mornings before his own body levels increased throughout the day.

I do hope you have some good news for us.


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## carthorse15 (8 January 2011)

Yes when he was in hospital he was examined/scoped/scanned/glucose test/bloods/urine/worm and 2 unsuccessful attempts to get stomach biopsy.  He is on 36 preds for a further 4 weeks.  So far still no change in him.

What happened to the horse?


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## Juniberry (19 November 2011)

Can you please phone your vet and ask if the horse has been tested for Lawsonia  Intracellularis? They may never have even heard of it. Apologies if they have and he has been!

Thank you I think you may have diagnoised my very very sick 5 month old foal.
3 weeks ago she stopped feeding off mum and had a temp of 103F this went up to 104F even with NSAID and abx. She started to fade away although she remained hydrated by drinking water. No other symptoms clear for flu and strangles.

5 days in I had to wean my foal as mum had dried up and stressing with the foal. Next day the foal really looked like she would die would not stand up or even pick at food. That day we started force feeding powdered foal milk syringing it down her throat. The foal then started to pick up and started grazing and slowly eating stud mix, foal creep and afla beet. 

Temp back to normal but swelling appeared on her midline 2 lumps front and back. Blood test showed dangerously low protein high levels of muscle enzym break down high levels of urea. We kept the feeding regium up including the milk after 5 dayd protein went from 24 to 30 but should be 60+ other levels bacame more normal. Swellings have decreased and foal is brighter and more like herself. Been wormed a couiple of days ago but been on a good worm programme on a pasture with no worm burden since birth.

Foal is eating and happy but now is painfully thin looks more like 2-3 months old not 5 months that she is. It may be because I see her a lot but she still looks like she is loosing weight but her coat is shinny and she is behaving more like a foal.

Should I get this specific blood test done?
Is there any treatment other than what I am doing now ie high quality foal feed and milk adlib grass and haylage in lots of small meals?
Is anyone researching this in the UK?
If it is Lawsonia  Intracellularis could I still lose her

Few extra details in case they are relevant I am in Devon and the foal is TB cross warmblood. She is on a small stud with another 8 foals and a selection of youngstock, brood mares and retired horses nothing else on the farm is ill. 

Any advise or suggestions please


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## carthorse15 (21 December 2011)

Juniberry said:



			Can you please phone your vet and ask if the horse has been tested for Lawsonia  Intracellularis? They may never have even heard of it. Apologies if they have and he has been!

Hi, sorry for not replying sooner, just saw your post.  Yes, Lawsonia was looked into at the time.  Unfortunately, he continued to lose condition, steroids did not work and he did not recover.   He was pts at the end of January 2011.  He was pm'd - it showed cancerous changes to his stomach.  I still feel awful about it all and miss him.

I really hope your wee foal will be okay.
		
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