# Tie back operation?



## ecb89 (2 January 2012)

Hello 

I have just seen an advert for horse for sale who has had a successful tie back operation in the last year.

Can someone please explain what this is and how it would effect the horse in the future, would it cause any problems etc...

Would it put you of buying the horse? 

Please note, I am looking for my first horse which will be an all rounder for hacking and RC - not a badminton winner 

Thank you


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## Honey08 (2 January 2012)

My friend bought a horse three years ago that roared.  When doing canter work or jumping it was quite noisy, and it gradually  got worse over the years.  This time last year the horse had a tie back op.  It was back in work for the summer season and was much better - hardly any noise, and the horse, which was always a little poor despite the livery yard pouring feed down its neck as much as poss, put on weight and looked much better..

Cons could be - your insurance will never cover wind problems for the horse knowing that it has had this op.

It should be perfectly capable of doing all local rc work.  I think its a good thing that the seller is upfront and honest about it.  The vet doing a vetting would tell you more, but its worth having a look at it.


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## ecb89 (2 January 2012)

Thank you

Yes, I too think its good that the owners has mentioned the operation and I would definitley get it vetted.

Looks like a lovely horse and from what you say I have not been put off


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## Always Henesy (2 January 2012)

Dear OP
Can I ask how big the horse is?
My 17.2hh TB x WB had a full tie back operation when he was 6.
He had a partially paralysed larynx, which meant he couldn't open up his airway fully and therefore left him struggling for breath.
It was a complete success and I did cross country, hunting, dressage, hacking and sponsored rides. There is no reason at all that this horse can't have a long and happy life doing the same as any other horse.
They are more susceptible to chest infections (very rare though) - this is due to the fact that sometimes food can go down the airway. You must make sure that all food is well watered down and dust is kept to the minimum.

I will also add that he was the best horse I have ever had - my true horse of a lifetime. He was brave, honest, kind and my best friend.


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## Emilieu (2 January 2012)

Always Henesey, is there a link to size? Thought it was interesting that you asked, my 17.2 tb has had the op too - no side effects that I'm aware of op except he has no neigh  I don't know much about it at all


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## ecb89 (2 January 2012)

He is a 17.2hh warmblood. From a little bit of research I've done online it seems to be more common in bigger horses.

How common are wind problems? Would an insurance company not covering wind problems be an issue? Sorry if thats a bit of a silly question


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## Always Henesy (2 January 2012)

Yes - there is a link to size sadly.
The tie back operation is more common in larger horses for some reason.
I also know that horses who have had tie backs are more likely to suffer from neurological diseases i.e: Wobblers syndrome. This is a condition that can come on at any stage in life. Apparently to do with the main nerve that runs from the throat through the spine.
My lad sadly was diagnosed with Wobblers and was pts in August. He was only 13 and otherwise fit and well. As a result and thanks to my amazing specialist equine vet, I now know that these things can be linked.
However, I must stress that this does not mean that every horse that has had the tie back operation is going to develop neurological problems! I am just posting of my experience. So please do not be alarmed!
Incidentally - the onset of Wobblers in my horse was rapid and only diagnosed after coming in from the field with a couple of horrific injuries (see Veterinary pics section). I had NO idea despite riding him regularly without incident.


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## Always Henesy (2 January 2012)

ecb89 said:



			He is a 17.2hh warmblood. From a little bit of research I've done online it seems to be more common in bigger horses.

How common are wind problems? Would an insurance company not covering wind problems be an issue? Sorry if thats a bit of a silly question
		
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Absolutely no wind problems with my lad. If the operation was classed as successful, then there should be no issues with wind at all.


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## ecb89 (2 January 2012)

Always Henesy said:



			Absolutely no wind problems with my lad. If the operation was classed as successful, then there should be no issues with wind at all. 


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Ahh thats good. This horse looks like just what I want and what I have read on here has not put me off.


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## Archiepoo (2 January 2012)

a friend of mine had both tieback and hobday and had an implant because his windpipe was very narrowed , his surgery cost £1700 two years ago, he was great afterwards but does get some horrid mucus if he gets a cold!


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## Always Henesy (2 January 2012)

ecb89 said:



			Ahh thats good. This horse looks like just what I want and what I have read on here has not put me off.
		
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I am pleased! You should not be put off at all! Like I said before - my lad was the best horse I ever had. To be honest - most horses have some issue or another anyway.
The only thing that is mildly disconcerting (and gives you many Ah bless moments) is the fact that they can't whinny or neigh! 
My lad would try and sound like he had asthma!
Good luck! Let us know how you got on with trying him. xx


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## suey12 (2 January 2012)

Always Henesy said:



			I am pleased! You should not be put off at all! Like I said before - my lad was the best horse I ever had. To be honest - most horses have some issue or another anyway.
The only thing that is mildly disconcerting (and gives you many Ah bless moments) is the fact that they can't whinny or neigh! 
My lad would try and sound like he had asthma!
Good luck! Let us know how you got on with trying him. xx
		
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I totally agree with this, my boy was the same and it never caused a problem, to be honest as soon as the op was done and he could start work he never looked back


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## Emilieu (3 January 2012)

Thanks, I never realised the link to size, that's interesting. I get the aw bless feeling with my boy all the time, breaks my heart when he tries to shout to his friends! It's cute tho, I call him silent bob when he does it.


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## Elf On A Shelf (3 January 2012)

Forgive me, I forgot that normal people with normal horses never really need to come across such things. 

Wind ops are very common in Racing. The whole idea is to allow as much as air to flow into and out of the lungs as possible, as quickly as possible unrestricted. A horse that has had a tie-back op will have had a partially collapsed larynx. This means that the soft palate gets trapped where it shouldnt be and obstructs, if not closes the wind pipe completely. You can also have the soft palate cauterized. Horses that have had Tie Back Ops generally have a much better quality of life because they can breath properly. They can also neigh without a problem.

Horses that CAN'T neigh have had Hobday wind ops. This is when the vocal chords are obstructing the air flow and they simply cut the chords. No vocal chords - no neigh. It sounds more of a wheeze and sometimes it is really a blessing in disguise if you have a horse that is very vocal about it's food lol! 

At the end of the day wind ops are done for the horses best interest. I have ridden and worked with more horses that have had wind ops than you can shake a stick at, I own  Hobdayed horse (and readily wish I could Hobday all of my critters upon occassion lol!) And we have never had any complications with them. Granted we don't normally see the horse in later life as they generally leave racing before or at around 11 years of age. But my Hobdayed lad is 15 now and has never had a bother about him in that respect.

It most certainly wouldn't put me off buying the horse. And just out of curiosity, for curiosities sake, you could get the horse scoped and see for yourself what has happened in it's throat.


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## Always Henesy (3 January 2012)

EKW said:



			Forgive me, I forgot that normal people with normal horses never really need to come across such things. 

Wind ops are very common in Racing. The whole idea is to allow as much as air to flow into and out of the lungs as possible, as quickly as possible unrestricted. A horse that has had a tie-back op will have had a partially collapsed larynx. This means that the soft palate gets trapped where it shouldnt be and obstructs, if not closes the wind pipe completely. You can also have the soft palate cauterized. Horses that have had Tie Back Ops generally have a much better quality of life because they can breath properly. They can also neigh without a problem.

Horses that CAN'T neigh have had Hobday wind ops. This is when the vocal chords are obstructing the air flow and they simply cut the chords. No vocal chords - no neigh. It sounds more of a wheeze and sometimes it is really a blessing in disguise if you have a horse that is very vocal about it's food lol! 

At the end of the day wind ops are done for the horses best interest. I have ridden and worked with more horses that have had wind ops than you can shake a stick at, I own  Hobdayed horse (and readily wish I could Hobday all of my critters upon occassion lol!) And we have never had any complications with them. Granted we don't normally see the horse in later life as they generally leave racing before or at around 11 years of age. But my Hobdayed lad is 15 now and has never had a bother about him in that respect.

It most certainly wouldn't put me off buying the horse. And just out of curiosity, for curiosities sake, you could get the horse scoped and see for yourself what has happened in it's throat.
		
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Interesting that you say horses that have had tie back operations CAN neigh.
I can assure you that my horse could NOT neigh and he had full tie back, not hobday.
His was due to a partially paralysed larynx.
I know this as he was scoped several times over the years with me - once at a specialist equine hospital in Maidstone.
Depending on what exactly was done with a tie back operation and how extensive the operation was will decide on whether the vocal chords are damaged/removed.


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## only_me (3 January 2012)

Just to let you know that a tie back is technically an unsoundness and I don't know if it would pass a 5 stage? I know that horses with a tie back/hobday are not allowed to compete at Dublin show as is considered a unsoundness.


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## lannerch (3 January 2012)

They do pass 5star vettings if fit for purpose, some top racehorses have had the op. 
My 17.2 did 2 years ago was successful and events cannot neigh and does occasionally have clear phlegm coming out of his nostrils about an hour after he has worked really hard other than that no noise no sound .
Would not put me off at all op good luck


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