# Vegan boyfriend...and hunting....



## Bri101 (30 December 2017)

Hi all just want to rant really!! 
 I have a vegan boyfriend who is completely against hunting....my issue is I have dreamed of hunting since I was about 8 years old when I helped a friend out at a hunt meet she hosted on her property. Never had my own horse up until recently so haven't been able to, but now I do have my own horse I'm desperate to get out and do it, however I've been told by my boyfriend that this is not something he ever wants me to get involved in. Have tried to explain that I have lived in the countryside my entire life and have grown up around hunting,shooting etc and it's just normal for me. However he is not having it, I have used every argument against him I can think of including the fact that there is a ban  currently but I have now run out of arguments....do I just ditch him?? &#128514;&#128514; is anyone else in any sort of similar position and can reassure me that one day I might convince him, or is there just no hope??


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## c2b (30 December 2017)

Hunt the clean boot with bloodhounds? Assuming you think given his attitude there is a longterm future for your relationship.


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## Templebar (30 December 2017)

Gosh i don't envy you at all. If you're already suggesting ditching him not forget about the hunting then it sounds like you might be made up in your mind. 

I cant see his opinion changing. If it's something that is as crucial as this then i would say forget about the hunting. However i would also be concerned how his opinions may come into other aspects of the sport, eventing, racing/point to point, dressage, show jumping. Each one has their own problematic areas and depending on what you plan to do with your horse, i think you might have further problems down the line. 

If you want to try and convince him look at a blood hound pack, depending on where you are you may have to travel. At least then you can show him that there are no animals hunted so no risk of them being caught. The problem with foxhound packs no matter how law abiding there will be those that are convinced they are not and there is always a risk.


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## Bri101 (30 December 2017)

c2b said:



			Hunt the clean boot with bloodhounds? Assuming you think given his attitude there is a longterm future for your relationship.
		
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This is my intention completely but he isn't at all convinced it's clean


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## Equi (30 December 2017)

There is no way I could date a vegan. Every one I have met have been completely intolerable and literally only have one conversation over and over again. I was a vegetarian for 5 years and the vegans drove me back to meat &#128514;


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## MotherOfChickens (30 December 2017)

Bri101 said:



			Hi all just want to rant really!! 
 I have a vegan boyfriend who is completely against hunting....my issue is I have dreamed of hunting since I was about 8 years old when I helped a friend out at a hunt meet she hosted on her property. Never had my own horse up until recently so haven't been able to, but now I do have my own horse I'm desperate to get out and do it, however I've been told by my boyfriend that this is not something he ever wants me to get involved in. Have tried to explain that I have lived in the countryside my entire life and have grown up around hunting,shooting etc and it's just normal for me. However he is not having it, I have used every argument against him I can think of including the fact that there is a ban  currently but I have now run out of arguments....do I just ditch him?? &#55357;&#56834;&#55357;&#56834; is anyone else in any sort of similar position and can reassure me that one day I might convince him, or is there just no hope??
		
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he's a vegan-he's made quite the commitment to not eating or using animal products (if he's doing it right)-why do you think killing animals for sport is compatible with that? some beliefs are just insurmountable, especially if neither of you can respect the other. break up and move on.


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## MotherOfChickens (30 December 2017)

Bri101 said:



			This is my intention completely but he isn't at all convinced it's clean
		
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well, then he's an idiot.


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## Bri101 (30 December 2017)

He's against everything I do with my horse, right down to the leather on my tack! Trouble is horse came after the boyfriend and when I met him, I was having a break from horses because of some health issues so my hobby was never an issue until I decided I was right enough to buy myself a horse of my very own. We have been together for 2 years but we really have hit a point where it's testing me


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## Bri101 (30 December 2017)

MotherOfChickens said:



			he's a vegan-he's made quite the commitment to not eating or using animal products (if he's doing it right)-why do you think killing animals for sport is compatible with that? some beliefs are just insurmountable, especially if neither of you can respect the other. break up and move on.
		
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But my argument is that my only intention is bloodhounds therefore why does it matter so much


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## Abi90 (30 December 2017)

Bri101 said:



			This is my intention completely but he isn't at all convinced it's clean
		
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I have a vegan friend, and she is lovely, but she is convinced that Bloodhound packs all go after foxes. This isn&#8217;t ignorance on her part as she actually knows nothing about it and has just assumed it&#8217;s the same. But she doesn&#8217;t want to be informed either as it doesn&#8217;t fit in with her opinions


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## Templebar (30 December 2017)

Yes the horse came after but overall they came first, its not like you had never known anything about horses before and now have one. I would think if it was me its time to move on, the differences between you are going to be too great and there is no point trying to argue and change one another.


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## Meredith (30 December 2017)

Templebar said:



			Gosh i don't envy you at all. If you're already suggesting ditching him not forget about the hunting then it sounds like you might be made up in your mind. 

I cant see his opinion changing. If it's something that is as crucial as this then i would say forget about the hunting. However i would also be concerned how his opinions may come into other aspects of the sport, eventing, racing/point to point, dressage, show jumping. Each one has their own problematic areas and depending on what you plan to do with your horse, i think you might have further problems down the line. 

If you want to try and convince him look at a blood hound pack, depending on where you are you may have to travel. At least then you can show him that there are no animals hunted so no risk of them being caught. The problem with foxhound packs no matter how law abiding there will be those that are convinced they are not and there is always a risk.
		
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Treading carefully might I suggest controlling behaviour


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## MissTyc (30 December 2017)

Get him to read up on the bloodhounds and stop being ignorant. He doesn't like the idea because he doesn't have the information. Encourage him to get that information, for you.


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## Templebar (30 December 2017)

Abi90 said:



			I have a vegan friend, and she is lovely, but she is convinced that Bloodhound packs all go after foxes. This isn&#8217;t ignorance on her part as she actually knows nothing about it and has just assumed it&#8217;s the same. But she doesn&#8217;t want to be informed either as it doesn&#8217;t fit in with her opinions
		
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It is ignorance as described as lack of knowledge and information, see below. Its also worse as they have no intention to learn.

noun
1.
the state or fact of being ignorant; lack of knowledge, learning, information, etc.


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## Templebar (30 December 2017)

Meredith said:



			Treading carefully might I suggest controlling behaviour
		
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Sorry are you suggesting my comments were controlling or his current behaviour, as i suspected the later but cannot see how what i have mentioned could be controlling?


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## TGM (30 December 2017)

Bri101 said:



			This is my intention completely but he isn't at all convinced it's clean
		
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Suggest he runs as quarry with a bloodhound pack so he can be 100% they are chasing humans!


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## GirlFriday (30 December 2017)

Oh, do go hunting, asap, on your horse who "was once very lazy but now he bolts off, bucks, spins and goes whichever direction he wants. He threw me off over the fence the other day" - you'll break your neck/horses leg and problem of what bf thinks of what you do with horse will be solved 

Alternatively resurrect this thread next Autumn if you're still with the OH and have the horsey under sufficiently suitable management to try cubbing (or whatever the bloodhound equivalent is!)


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## Abi90 (30 December 2017)

Templebar said:



			It is ignorance as described as lack of knowledge and information, see below. Its also worse as they have no intention to learn.

noun
1.
the state or fact of being ignorant; lack of knowledge, learning, information, etc.
		
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I think i meant day &#8220;is&#8221; and phone changed it to &#8220;isn&#8217;t&#8221;


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## Bri101 (30 December 2017)

GirlFriday said:



			Oh, do go hunting, asap, on your horse who "was once very lazy but now he bolts off, bucks, spins and goes whichever direction he wants. He threw me off over the fence the other day" - you'll break your neck/horses leg and problem of what bf thinks of what you do with horse will be solved 

Alternatively resurrect this thread next Autumn if you're still with the OH and have the horsey under sufficiently suitable management to try cubbing (or whatever the bloodhound equivalent is!)
		
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Not really sure I get where you are going with this??


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## GirlFriday (30 December 2017)

Bri101 said:



			Not really sure I get where you are going with this??
		
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It was a light hearted way of saying that you might be getting ahead of yourselves. Some of us (including me) have a tendency to worry about all sorts of things that may never become relevant. There is a lot to be said for enjoying the moment.


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## Alec Swan (30 December 2017)

Bri101,  

Dump him.  

Alec.


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## fredflop (30 December 2017)

He sounds controlling. However if you really like him, I&#8217;d suggest you ask him to have a sit down and a chat. Ask him to research hunting properly, not just from the sab Facebook pages that are awful.

I&#8217;d also point out the fact that most saddles are leather, and it&#8217;s not always possible to get a synthetic saddle.


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## cremedemonthe (30 December 2017)

Alec Swan said:



			Bri101,  

Dump him.  

Alec.
		
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^^^^^^^^^^

This 100% 
Oz


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## pennyturner (30 December 2017)

OP, this person thinks that they have the right to control what you do.  Today it is hunting, but it is just an excuse to manipulate you.  Tomorrow it might be whether you are allowed to go visit your own mother (she doesn't like me, who do you love, her or me?  etc. etc.)
Decent people do not treat their partners like this.

Trust your instincts - you know this isn't right.  Get out now, before the real trouble starts.


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## cremedemonthe (30 December 2017)

pennyturner said:



			OP, this person thinks that they have the right to control what you do.  Today it is hunting, but it is just an excuse to manipulate you.  Tomorrow it might be whether you are allowed to go visit your own mother (she doesn't like me, who do you love, her or me?  etc. etc.)
Decent people do not treat their partners like this.

Trust your instincts - you know this isn't right.  Get out now, before the real trouble starts.
		
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^^^^^^^^^
Another 100%


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## Amymay (30 December 2017)

Are you a vegan op?


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## windand rain (30 December 2017)

Another thought of the slippery slope to being controlling. Strong belief can be impossible to compromise on. It also depends on why he is vegan of he thinks he is helping animals  he is deluded if he hates them and all they stand for it is a valid reason


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## webble (30 December 2017)

hmm to me he is just asking you to support him in his belief, I assume he doesn't object to you doing other types riding? I don't honestly think you will get a balanced opinion on here due to the nature of the forum


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## Cecile (30 December 2017)

Bri101 said:



			He's against everything I do with my horse, right down to the leather on my tack! Trouble is horse came after the boyfriend and when I met him, I was having a break from horses because of some health issues so my hobby was never an issue until I decided I was right enough to buy myself a horse of my very own. We have been together for 2 years but we really have hit a point where it's testing me
		
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Sounds awful, what happens if you wear leather shoes, will he expect you to take them off or buy canvas or synthetic ones?
Everyone is entitled to have and follow their beliefs but their rights stop when they try to push their beliefs onto others
I also get alarm bells when anyone is being told they should or should not do something, discussion/debate is good, controlling behaviour is to be avoided at all costs


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## MDB (30 December 2017)

Does your boyfriend have any pets OP?


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## Snowfilly (30 December 2017)

I have a vegan work colleague who has become a good friend over the past year since she joined. I mentioned this thread to her, said it was bloodhounds and she says 'he's the type of vegan with his head up his $&@* who gives us a bad name.' 

Interestingly, she is happy wih the idea of riding, keeps asking me questions about it and also keeps pets who are allowed meat from a local farm. Not all vegans are crazy!

I'd dump him, life is too short.


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## Meredith (30 December 2017)

Templebar said:



			Sorry are you suggesting my comments were controlling or his current behaviour, as i suspected the later but cannot see how what i have mentioned could be controlling?
		
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His not yours. Just being cautious. Just read about signs of future behaviour.


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## paddi22 (30 December 2017)

Go ahead and do it anyway. He needs to accept who you are and respect your beliefs/wishes, even if they clash with his.  It's his choice to either live with it, or its a deal breaker for him and he leaves. 

Personally I wouldn't want to be with a partner who would ban me from doing a longterm life goal and something I love. I don't think that is showing love on his part.


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## Theocat (30 December 2017)

I cannot see this lasting. Might as well finish it now so you can go hunting!

It's not necessarily controlling (depending on how/ what he said), but even if it isn't, presumably it is some kind of ultimatum on his part - he is not happy dating someone who will go hunting. He's made his feelings clear; I genuinely can't see you wanting to give up large parts of your lifestyle, so I honestly think the sooner you both move on the better. I suspect he is also wondering whether you are right for him ...


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## ycbm (30 December 2017)

Bri101 said:



			This is my intention completely but he isn't at all convinced it's clean
		
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He thinks bloodhounds catch live animals?

Then you should dump him because of his stupidity, never mind the hunting!


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## Antw23uk (30 December 2017)

Bri101 said:



			This is my intention completely but he isn't at all convinced it's clean
		
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Then he is a typical know nothing vegan know it all!

I've been looking into veganism recently, its kind of lead by me wanting to go vegetarian but they are all nuts, totally up themselves, horrendous lot and its really really put me off which is a shame!


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## Chinchilla (30 December 2017)

People who try and push their own beliefs on others are ridiculous. OP's bf sounds naive, and possibly brainwashed, by all the cyber vegans out there, saying all "hunters" are bunny killing criminals: they're not. I don't doubt that some flout the ban - but those are very few, I imagine.

OP, is he aware about the ban, and the penalties for not respecting it? Have you told him you're not actually going to be killing anything...?! Can you get him involved in some way so he sees the truth in what you're saying?
To be honest I would dump anyone who tried to impress their own beliefs on me so strongly to the extent that it was affecting how I lived my life(!!!) but it is entirely your choice whether you do that or not.
I actually wouldn't mind going vegan myself but the type of people who usually are vegan entirely put me off. I don't want to be seen to be one of them (that's an awful thing to say but they are a bit shall we say, persistent, and have a bit of a record for, and this is putting it politely, telling white lies to push their POV.)


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## cobsarefab (30 December 2017)

OP, if you want to go hunting you should. He has no right to say what you can and can't do. If you want to do this than you should. If push comes to shove I'd dump him and buy another horse.


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## Blixen Vixen (30 December 2017)

What&#8217;s your boyfriend&#8217;s objection to you having a riding horse? I say it as you mention he disagrees with what you do with the horse besides the hunting element. Does he understand that horses for most leisure riders are virtually pets, the amount of work they have to do is so minimal it&#8217;s negligable really. There would be no horses around if they didn&#8217;t have a job to do!

To be honest op it sounds like you guys are incompatible. Sorry but if your fundamental beliefs are so far apart that doesn&#8217;t augur well for a successful long term future.


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## Bri101 (30 December 2017)

To clear up, I am not vegan myself although I don't disagree with their beliefs I just cant personally live by them myself! We do have pets (we live together) we have 8 rats and 3 hamsters (all his choice to buy them might I add) 

The idea of dumping him and buying another horse did cross my mind during our debate!! &#55357;&#56838;


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## tashcat (30 December 2017)

Go with Bloodhounds - there is no vegan contradiction there. 

I can understand he wants your support in his beliefs and lifestyle, but it is completely unacceptable to stop you from doing something you love on the basis of these ignorant, short sighted beliefs. 

Snowfilly couldn't agree more about giving vegans a bad name!!


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## Bri101 (30 December 2017)

Blixen Vixen said:



			What&#8217;s your boyfriend&#8217;s objection to you having a riding horse? I say it as you mention he disagrees with what you do with the horse besides the hunting element. Does he understand that horses for most leisure riders are virtually pets, the amount of work they have to do is so minimal it&#8217;s negligable really. There would be no horses around if they didn&#8217;t have a job to do!

To be honest op it sounds like you guys are incompatible. Sorry but if your fundamental beliefs are so far apart that doesn&#8217;t augur well for a successful long term future.
		
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He disagrees with schooling of any sort, completely okay with hacking because in his mind it isn't "work" as such. He just disagrees with keeping a horse to use it, wouldn't have anything against it if he was a field ornament. He once told me I was cruel for cracking my lunge whip at my horse....


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## Alec Swan (30 December 2017)

Bri,  I'm intrigued &#8230;. when 2 people live together and one is a vegan and the other is normal,  what on earth happens at meal times?  Do you both cook for yourselves?  Do you have separate fridges so that one set of ingredients doesn't become infected by the other?  

Alec.


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## Abi90 (30 December 2017)

My Vegan friend is also in the RAF. She&#8217;s against animal suffering of any kind but she has joined an organisation where she may be called upon to kill other humans... and wears a uniform that has leather in it. How does that even work?!


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## Chinchilla (30 December 2017)

Bri101 said:



			To clear up, I am not vegan myself although I don't disagree with their beliefs I just cant personally live by them myself! We do have pets (we live together) we have 8 rats and 3 hamsters (all his choice to buy them might I add) 

The idea of dumping him and buying another horse did cross my mind during our debate!! &#65533;&#65533;
		
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Considering how (some) petshops treat animals and where they get their animals from (rodent mills), I'm fairly shocked to hear someone who won't let their OH go draghunting supports petshops. That is, to me, fairly hypocritical, though some may disagree.


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## Alec Swan (30 December 2017)

Abi90 said:



			My Vegan friend is also in the RAF. &#8230;&#8230;.. she has joined an organisation where she may be called upon to kill other humans... ?!
		
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Presumably with a gun in her hands she'd shoot to miss &#8230;&#8230;.. and then die in the process.  I knew someone who took that stance once and I was a pallbearer at the idiot's funeral! 

Alec.


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## Snowfilly (30 December 2017)

Hi Alec, my vegan friend lives with a distinctly none vegan fella. She is a great cook and normally preps packed lunches for them both and he'll add some meat or fish to it later. Dinner, he figures eating vegan is a small price to pay for not having to cook!

She will cook with eggs and diary for him but not meat. They have one fridge with seperate shelves and isn't bothered about anyone eating meat around her. I'm nosey and also a vegetarian so I asked lots of questions when I'm round there.

To be fair, I think she is an unusual type of vegan and she distances herself from a lot of their practices and beliefs. She hates PETA and the RSPCA with a passion! She also believes it's better for animals to engage with humans and work to keep their kinds and bodies active - she loves dog agility and finds riding fascinating - I think I could persuade her to try quite easily.


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## Abi90 (30 December 2017)

Alec Swan said:



			Presumably with a gun in her hands she'd shoot to miss &#8230;&#8230;.. and then die in the process.  I knew someone who took that stance once and I was a pallbearer at the idiot's funeral! 

Alec.
		
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Rather more worryingly, her job is conducted in relative safety but she could be partially responsible for the death of many. Whilst wearing her leather shoes! She does the same job as me and I cannot understand how you can&#8217;t eat cheese because it&#8217;s immoral but can reconcile yourself with doing what we do!


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## Bri101 (30 December 2017)

Chinchilla said:



			Considering how (some) petshops treat animals and where they get their animals from (rodent mills), I'm fairly shocked to hear someone who won't let their OH go draghunting supports petshops. That is, to me, fairly hypocritical, though some may disagree.
		
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I completely agree and have mentioned this to him, however he believes he is not supporting pet shops but in fact saving the animals sold within them! Very backwards


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## Alec Swan (30 December 2017)

Bri101 said:



			I completely agree and have mentioned this to him, however he believes he is not supporting pet shops but in fact saving the animals sold within them! Very backwards
		
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Backwards?  Stooopid too.  My opinion hasn't changed &#8230;. Dump Him! 

Alec.


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## ROMANY 1959 (30 December 2017)

I would not let anyone dictate what I do... everyone has their own beliefs and ideas , but to cow tow to another just to keep the peace is the short end of being dictated too. Does he tell you not to wear leather boots? Or what you eat yourself..


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## Bri101 (30 December 2017)

Alec Swan said:



			Bri,  I'm intrigued &#8230;. when 2 people live together and one is a vegan and the other is normal,  what on earth happens at meal times?  Do you both cook for yourselves?  Do you have separate fridges so that one set of ingredients doesn't become infected by the other?  

Alec.
		
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We originally had separate shelves in the fridge and I didn't eat meat on nights he was home (he worked night shifts at the time) however after about 6 months I gave up with this so started eating veggie


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## Chinchilla (30 December 2017)

Bri101 said:



			I completely agree and have mentioned this to him, however he believes he is not supporting pet shops but in fact saving the animals sold within them! Very backwards
		
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By giving them money? Well. Urmh. Alright then. Not quite sure what to say to that to be honest lol - basically agree with Alec, and everyone else, at this point. (Sorry!)


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## cobgoblin (30 December 2017)

Bri101 said:



			He disagrees with schooling of any sort, completely okay with hacking because in his mind it isn't "work" as such. He just disagrees with keeping a horse to use it, wouldn't have anything against it if he was a field ornament. He once told me I was cruel for cracking my lunge whip at my horse....
		
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So he would be OK with you hacking out an ill mannered, untrained horse that might be a danger to yourself and everyone else?

Are you sure this guy has any brain cells?


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## Bri101 (30 December 2017)

ROMANY 1959 said:



			I would not let anyone dictate what I do... everyone has their own beliefs and ideas , but to cow tow to another just to keep the peace is the short end of being dictated too. Does he tell you not to wear leather boots? Or what you eat yourself..
		
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He never told me to give anything up just pushed me to the point of giving them up with the comments I got anytime I did something. I stopped wearing my favourite pair of shoes (red doc martens) after all the comments I got when wearing them.


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## cremedemonthe (30 December 2017)

Alec Swan said:



			Backwards?  Stooopid too.  My opinion hasn't changed &#8230;. Dump Him! 

Alec.
		
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Same here Alec


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## Abi90 (30 December 2017)

Having read your latest replies, I suggest you dump him. Your lifestyles are not compatible. Let him find a vegan to be fanatical with


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## cobgoblin (30 December 2017)

Bri101 said:



			He never told me to give anything up just pushed me to the point of giving them up with the comments I got anytime I did something. I stopped wearing my favourite pair of shoes (red doc martens) after all the comments I got when wearing them.
		
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Wear them! It means the animal didn't die for nothing.


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## RaposadeGengibre (30 December 2017)

Bri101 said:



			He never told me to give anything up just pushed me to the point of giving them up with the comments I got anytime I did something. I stopped wearing my favourite pair of shoes (red doc martens) after all the comments I got when wearing them.
		
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Here you go... You gave up eating meat, wearing leather shoes, he is pushing you out of the horse world.... Whats next? Only vegan friends are accepted after being screened by him?


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## cobgoblin (30 December 2017)

Goodness girl!

Put on the doc martens, go out and buy a burger and tell him you are going hunting and he can either deal with it or push off.


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## The Fuzzy Furry (30 December 2017)

OP,  surely you need to get your horse settled on the right feed before contemplating hunting him?
To echo others (If this isn't a wind up, as is education holidays) I'd dump him asap.


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## Meredith (30 December 2017)

RaposadeGengibre said:



			Here you go... You gave up eating meat, wearing leather shoes, he is pushing you out of the horse world.... Whats next? Only vegan friends are accepted after being screened by him?
		
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Apologies. Please see my previous post.


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## Fidgety (30 December 2017)

Bri101 said:



			I completely agree and have mentioned this to him, however he believes he is not supporting pet shops but in fact saving the animals sold within them! Very backwards
		
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Does he think the earth is flat too?

You know the answer all ready, you don't need our permission.  Tally ho!


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## caoimhe (30 December 2017)

Dump him.


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## Pinkvboots (30 December 2017)

I am another one in the dump him camp! just his views on schooling would be enough for me he sounds like a bloody idiot sorry.


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## TheOldTrout (30 December 2017)

Bri101 said:



			He never told me to give anything up just pushed me to the point of giving them up with the comments I got anytime I did something. I stopped wearing my favourite pair of shoes (red doc martens) after all the comments I got when wearing them.
		
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That reply of yours is ringing alarm bells with me. Strongly recommend you get out of the relationship now.


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## CrazyMare (30 December 2017)

So he wants you to live your life by his values, but your values are unacceptable to him....!?


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## Rowreach (30 December 2017)

Abi90 said:



			Rather more worryingly, her job is conducted in relative safety but she could be partially responsible for the death of many. Whilst wearing her leather shoes! She does the same job as me and I cannot understand how you cant eat cheese because its immoral but can reconcile yourself with doing what we do!
		
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Oh I don't know, animals are generally more pleasant than people


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## Bri101 (30 December 2017)

The Xmas Furry said:



			OP,  surely you need to get your horse settled on the right feed before contemplating hunting him?
To echo others (If this isn't a wind up, as is education holidays) I'd dump him asap.
		
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Not talking right this minute for hunting, but in the not so distant future, have started thinking about it now so that I can be settled on this situation sooner rather than later


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## case895 (30 December 2017)

Some vegans behave that their dietary preference is a religious cult. In fact many would get kicked out of Scientology for being too "culty".


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## ILuvCowparsely (30 December 2017)

Bri101 said:



			Hi all just want to rant really!! 
 I have a vegan boyfriend who is completely against hunting....my issue is I have dreamed of hunting since I was about 8 years old when I helped a friend out at a hunt meet she hosted on her property. Never had my own horse up until recently so haven't been able to, but now I do have my own horse I'm desperate to get out and do it, however I've been told by my boyfriend that this is not something he ever wants me to get involved in. Have tried to explain that I have lived in the countryside my entire life and have grown up around hunting,shooting etc and it's just normal for me. However he is not having it, I have used every argument against him I can think of including the fact that there is a ban  currently but I have now run out of arguments....do I just ditch him?? &#128514;&#128514; is anyone else in any sort of similar position and can reassure me that one day I might convince him, or is there just no hope??
		
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Really - though I can appreciate his chosen path to be a vegan - he has no right to tell you not to do it as it is your life, that said you knew he was vegan and would be against some things in your relationship.

He should say* I appreciate you want to do it and I won't stop you but I am not in favour of it and nor do I want to you to tell me or report to me what happens*


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## Alec Swan (30 December 2017)

Rowreach said:



			Oh I don't know, animals are generally more pleasant than people 

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&#8230;. and mostly,  we don't get in to too much hot water when we kill them and eat them.  Animals also seem strangely accepting of that,  though I remain convinced that I could only consider cannibalism in an emergency.

Alec.


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## blitznbobs (30 December 2017)

Are you thinking of eating the fox?


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## MuddyMonster (30 December 2017)

Alec Swan said:



			Bri,  I'm intrigued &#8230;. when 2 people live together and one is a vegan and the other is normal,  what on earth happens at meal times?  Do you both cook for yourselves?  Do you have separate fridges so that one set of ingredients doesn't become infected by the other?  

Alec.
		
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By 'normal', I'm assuming you mean 'omnivore'. 

I'm not the OP, but I am a vegan (well, actually I'm a vegetarian with dairy allergies and egg intolerance - but I wouldn't go back to consuming dairy even if I wasn't allergic for my own reasons - so why split hairs  ) but live with my omnivore boyfriend.

We have one fridge and we share. I buy oat milk for myself, I buy cows milk for him and so on - it's all very simple! 

Generally we eat similar meals - e.g tonight we made pizza and I used vegan cheese and he used cow's cheese, I used veg as toppings, he used meat. We prepared, cooked and ate it together as we do most meals. There are some things I buy vegan for us both - wine for example, which I don't even think crosses his mind! 

We take it in turns to cook - I have no issue touching or handling meat, just as he has no issue cooking tofu. There are some vegan things he likes so we both eat the same of - some sausages for example, he prefers. 

I don't expect him to stop eating meat for my sake, just as I wouldn't anyone else. But I don't expect him to ask me start eating meat too. 

OP - he sounds like a nasty person, vegan or not. Get rid in my opinion!


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## Arzada (30 December 2017)

Bri101 said:



			He never told me to give anything up just pushed me to the point of giving them up with the comments I got anytime I did something. I stopped wearing my favourite pair of shoes (red doc martens) after all the comments I got when wearing them.
		
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He got you to do/not do exactly what he wants  - I can't see the difference between whether he tells you directly or uses adverse comments every time you did/do something he doesn't want you to do.


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## RaposadeGengibre (30 December 2017)

Meredith said:



			Apologies. Please see my previous post.
		
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I am totally agree with you that he is trying to control how OP lives her life.


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## Peter7917 (30 December 2017)

My partner does not agree with fox hunting. His family are strongly apposed. My family are just as strongly apposed. 

I've recently come back from a fox hunting trip to Ireland. 

Don't let other people rule your life. Make your own decisions. Those that love you will accept them even if they do not agree with them.


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## Orangehorse (30 December 2017)

TGM said:



			Suggest he runs as quarry with a bloodhound pack so he can be 100% they are chasing humans!
		
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I was going to suggest that too!

Trouble is, some vegans are absolutely opposed to any animal exploitation and would consider racing, eventing and even horse riding itself as not compatible with their beliefs.


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## GirlFriday (30 December 2017)

tashcat said:



			Go with Bloodhounds - there is no vegan contradiction there.
		
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They still shoot the dogs when they get slow though I think, no? So, sadly there is still animal slaughter for sport involved...

I mean OP is clearly a little (her horse is 14hh so we can assume she is fairly little) wind up artist so I'm replying for you not her - but yeah, I think there would still be a contradiction as animals are still killed entirely for pleasure, albeit the pleasure comes first.


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## Nancykitt (30 December 2017)

GirlFriday said:



			They still shoot the dogs when they get slow though I think, no? So, sadly there is still animal slaughter for sport involved...
		
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That certainly isn't the case in my experience; several bloodhounds were re-homed as family pets, are still going strong and are much loved by their owners (who also supported the hunt).


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## GirlFriday (30 December 2017)

Nancykitt said:



			That certainly isn't the case in my experience; several bloodhounds were re-homed as family pets, are still going strong and are much loved by their owners (who also supported the hunt).
		
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Interesting - what makes them/their care intrinsically different from foxhounds which are routinely shot as the hunts regard them as un-rehomable?


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## Alec Swan (30 December 2017)

GirlFriday said:



			Interesting - what makes them/their care intrinsically different from foxhounds which are routinely shot as the hunts regard them as un-rehomable?
		
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I'm really sorry to say this,  but I would need to physically witness the successful re-homing of any Hounds,  before I believed what I read.  How many Police Dogs would make for successful Guide Dogs?  &#8230;. any ideas anyone?

Alec.


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## ycbm (30 December 2017)

GirlFriday said:



			Interesting - what makes them/their care intrinsically different from foxhounds which are routinely shot as the hunts regard them as un-rehomable?
		
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They have been bred for centuries to work in close contact with man, often on a leash, to find but not kill prey.  Fox hounds hunt as a pack relatively autonomously, and kill prey.



Alec how does whether a Police dog could be turned into a Guide dog relate to whether a bloodhound can become a family pet  ?   I don't know any adult dog that has been trained to a job that could become a guide dog, do you?

The working bloodhounds I've met have been soppy great beasts who would slobber you to death 


GF I don't know why you are so concerned about dogs being shot, it's a wonderful quick death that they know nothing about. I'd rather see any number of working dogs shot when they can't do their job than some of the poor creatures I see being dragged about on the end of a lead because the owner is too emotionally attached to see that it should be put down.


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## crabbymare (30 December 2017)

Bri101 said:



			He never told me to give anything up just pushed me to the point of giving them up with the comments I got anytime I did something. I stopped wearing my favourite pair of shoes (red doc martens) after all the comments I got when wearing them.
		
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Although in a different way I have been there and got the certificate. I saw it fairly early and did not allow it but my advice to you is wake up and see what is going on. DO NOT allow him to control what you do, wear, eat, live or how you think. If you cannot do that get out NOW


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## GirlFriday (30 December 2017)

ycbm said:



			GF I don't know why you are so concerned about dogs being shot, it's a wonderful quick death that they know nothing about. I'd rather see any number of working dogs shot when they can't do their job than some of the poor creatures I see being dragged about on the end of a lead because the owner is too emotionally attached to see that it should be put down.
		
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I'm perfectly capable of agreeing when a dog needs PTS (I've no regrets about that being how my last went) but treating them as an expendable commodity for sport I have an issue with - plenty of ppl on here rehome racers (and a few have greyhound versions too!) so they can have a life beyond work when they could easily and quickly be shot and that is generally considered a positive, same thing really...


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## Alec Swan (30 December 2017)

ycbm said:



			&#8230;&#8230;.. Alec how does whether a Police dog could be turned into a Guide dog relate to whether a bloodhound can become a family pet  ?   I don't know any adult dog that has been trained to a job that could become a guide dog, do you?

&#8230;&#8230;.. .
		
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I suppose that you were also one of those who was in support of Kauto Star taking up a new career as a dressage horse!  that worked a treat,  didn't it?  The analogy is the same,  animals which have been bred and importantly 'used',  often for centuries,  and to do one specific job (thinking racehorses,  greyhounds,  and bloodhounds too),  and it is generally kinder,  as happens with foxhounds,  that their light is switched off,  humanely and instantly rather than inflict a life of well intentioned but ignorant treatment upon them,  as generally happens.

Alec.


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## ycbm (30 December 2017)

Take a look at what I said about Kauto Star at the time Alec. I was dead against what was done with that horse and his last appearance in the spotlight was horrible. 

We agree completely. I don't know why you think we don't. There are far worse fates for an animal, especially one used to a certain way of life, than a clean death at any age.


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## GirlFriday (30 December 2017)

I did wonder how your retiring sheep dog met it's end Alec...

I think it would be fair to say I'm more against racing than I'm against racers doing a bit of dressage rather than being shot on leaving the track...

Like the OP claims to have I've always fancied hunting (not the killing parts, the dashing around half-cut with little regard for life & limb and masses of horses part) but the dog-shooting aspects of all forms (and lack of funds) have put me off. I blame too much early-Victorian literature as a teen myself.


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## Theocat (30 December 2017)

Bri101 said:



			He never told me to give anything up just pushed me to the point of giving them up with the comments I got anytime I did something. I stopped wearing my favourite pair of shoes (red doc martens) after all the comments I got when wearing them.
		
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Okay, so he is trying to do control you / you're letting him.

Seriously, neither of you sound happy. And I can't see any way that two people with such opposing views can be.


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## SEL (30 December 2017)

OP - my mother is completely opposed to fox hunting and so it's something I never had a go at as a child (despite living in amazing hunting country and having the perfect pony! ). If i had the right horse now then I'd definitely have a go - but to preserve family relations I'd likely go out with the blood hounds. The worst they are likely to do is lick their quarry to death.


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## Cinnamontoast (30 December 2017)

cobgoblin said:



			Goodness girl!

Put on the doc martens, go out and buy a burger and tell him you are going hunting and he can either deal with it or push off.
		
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Totally, but I fear some people would rather change their lifestyle than lose the oh so precious partner. :rolleyes3: 

Controlling partners are very difficult to get rid of, theyre often very manipulative and disguise their controlling behaviour as wanting the best for their partner or improving their lives. Im doing this for your own good, darling. Tell him to get lost, OP. Hes already stopped you wearing your boots, whats next? 

Having caged rodents totally negates all of his vegan aspirations. IMO, thats far worse behaviour for a vegan than hunting the clean boot. Im sorry, OP, he sounds like an idiot. How can he possibly frown on you schooling the horse yet cage up a bunch of rodents? Massive dichotomy. Massive d*ck. 



Alec Swan said:



			I'm really sorry to say this,  but I would need to physically witness the successful re-homing of any Hounds,  before I believed what I read.  How many Police Dogs would make for successful Guide Dogs?  . any ideas anyone?

Alec.
		
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The OH gets the emails about police dogs needing a new home. He reads them out to me: Rover needs a new home now he is retiring aged 8. Rover has bitten his handler several times and cannot be re-homed with small animals or children. 

Lots of handlers keep their old dogs whilst training up a new dog. No idea why Rover needs a new home. :rollseyes3:


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## FinkleyAlex (30 December 2017)

I&#8217;m finding this an interesting read. I think ultimately relationships come down to acceptance and give and take. I&#8217;m vegetarian and my partner is a meatlover - our food is kept in the same fridge, he is happy to cook some veggie meals, I&#8217;m happy to cook some neutral meals and he can add meat to his. I don&#8217;t wear leather or fur but I&#8217;m not vegan. My partner knows not to buy me things with leather/fur but I don&#8217;t chastise him for buying new leather shoes - that&#8217;s his choice. Likewise I couldn&#8217;t care less if he ate a steak for dinner - his choice. I have to say that I wouldn&#8217;t be happy if he wanted to go real hunting (couldn&#8217;t care less if he wanted to go drag hunting), and out of consideration for me he probably wouldn&#8217;t do it. Likewise if there was something he felt very strongly about I wouldn&#8217;t do it out of consideration for him. However the difference in your situation is that there doesn&#8217;t seem to be much give and take. He needs to accept that you aren&#8217;t vegan and should be able to enjoy your life without digs and comments, you need to accept that he is vegan and consider whether there are certain things you&#8217;re willing to give up as a compromise (and it should only be certain things, otherwise you&#8217;ll be giving too much).


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## Boulty (30 December 2017)

If Bloodhounds are who you'd like to go out with and so the only thing you'd be "hunting" is people / the clean boot then could he perhaps be persuaded to come to a meet as a foot follower with you, watch what goes on and ask any questions?  (If the pack you're wanting to go with has a decent website explaining how they operate this may be a useful tool to show him?)  At the end of the day it's your life and your interests and he should not be able to exert total control over that but by the same token if he really feels that strongly and is so genuinely offended / upset by the idea then if you went ahead with him still totally against the idea then yes you are going to put a lot of strain on your relationship.


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## hackneylass2 (31 December 2017)

Hunting the clean boot is a lot of fun.  Mind you, the real question here is that you have come on here to ask about your partner's attitude.  IMO veggies and omnis can live together if both give and take. Vegans who are committed would be harder to live with, eg, does he drive a car, what tyres are on his car? As far as I know only Michelin produce vegan tyres.  Does he know that steel is not vegan? Sweetsa too?  I was shocked a few weeks ago as a Muslim friend would not eat Haribo sweets as alchohol is used in the manufacturing process! Tiny amounts yes, but for someone who is devout its a no go.  
My advice is this.  Find yourself a partner who is more compatible with you, one who you don't have to come on a forum to ask opinions about.  There's someone for everyone! In the meantime, find a bloodhound pack and have some fun.


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## tallyho! (31 December 2017)

Bri101 said:



			He's against everything I do with my horse, right down to the leather on my tack! Trouble is horse came after the boyfriend and when I met him, I was having a break from horses because of some health issues so my hobby was never an issue until I decided I was right enough to buy myself a horse of my very own. We have been together for 2 years but we really have hit a point where it's testing me
		
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FFS do yourself and him a favour and leave already!


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## blitznbobs (31 December 2017)

Bloke that respects animals but has no respect for you or your wishes so why is he with you? So that he can change you into something you're not? And why are you with him, so you can let him tell you how to live for the rest of time? The question you should be asking is why are you so scared to be on your own?


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## DD (31 December 2017)

you need a new boyfriend.


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## scats (31 December 2017)

Perhaps your views are just too different to make a relationship work?


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## stencilface (31 December 2017)

FinkleyAlex said:



			I&#8217;m finding this an interesting read. I think ultimately relationships come down to acceptance and give and take. I&#8217;m vegetarian and my partner is a meatlover - our food is kept in the same fridge, he is happy to cook some veggie meals, I&#8217;m happy to cook some neutral meals and he can add meat to his. I don&#8217;t wear leather or fur but I&#8217;m not vegan. My partner knows not to buy me things with leather/fur but I don&#8217;t chastise him for buying new leather shoes - that&#8217;s his choice. Likewise I couldn&#8217;t care less if he ate a steak for dinner - his choice. I have to say that I wouldn&#8217;t be happy if he wanted to go real hunting (couldn&#8217;t care less if he wanted to go drag hunting), and out of consideration for me he probably wouldn&#8217;t do it. Likewise if there was something he felt very strongly about I wouldn&#8217;t do it out of consideration for him. However the difference in your situation is that there doesn&#8217;t seem to be much give and take. He needs to accept that you aren&#8217;t vegan and should be able to enjoy your life without digs and comments, you need to accept that he is vegan and consider whether there are certain things you&#8217;re willing to give up as a compromise (and it should only be certain things, otherwise you&#8217;ll be giving too much).
		
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I'm glad someone else lives similarly to me, I'm veggie he's meaty. Sometimes I feel I don't have enough courage in my conviction but your post makes me feel that perhaps both us and our ohs are both live and let live types.

A friend gave me a vegan cookbook for Christmas, and it inspired me to sign up for veganuary. I'm not going full vegan, but I'm going to try to convert as many meals as possible to bring vegan, breakfast will be easy to start with


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## Firefly9410 (31 December 2017)

Bri101 said:



			He never told me to give anything up just pushed me to the point of giving them up with the comments I got anytime I did something. I stopped wearing my favourite pair of shoes (red doc martens) after all the comments I got when wearing them.
		
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That right there is controlling behaviour. It looks to you like it was your choice to stop those things but it wasn't. Had you not been getting the comments you would have stayed as you were doing the things you always did. Things there was nothing wrong with you doing. You are already being controlled by him you cannot see it yet is all. 

I have a vegan friend who lives with her non vegan family. Cooking is not a problem for her she cooks and stores food separately and never dictates what others eat. She has no problem with me being pro hunt wearing leather riding horses. We have not discussed it so maybe she does not like it but she does not comment on my life choices or try to convert me to veganism and I do not make comments about her choices either. It is called RESPECT. 

You and your boyfriend are incompatible not only because of his vegan beliefs but due to his lack of respect for you and his belief that he has any right to put pressure on you to do what he wants.


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## Firefly9410 (31 December 2017)

Bri101 said:



			Not talking right this minute for hunting, but in the not so distant future, have started thinking about it now so that I can be settled on this situation sooner rather than later
		
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You are living your life in such a way as to accommodate his moods and try to minimise any negativity directed towards you. It is not normal to have to do that.

 Nor is it acceptable to have to justify your choices to him. An interested question asking why you want to go hunting and maybe a discussion about pro and anti hunting beliefs but it should be only a conversation not you fighting for your right to live life as you choose. You already have that right in UK law you do not have to fight anyone for it least of all him.


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## Sandstone1 (31 December 2017)

Alec Swan said:



			I'm really sorry to say this,  but I would need to physically witness the successful re-homing of any Hounds,  before I believed what I read.  How many Police Dogs would make for successful Guide Dogs?  . any ideas anyone?

Alec.
		
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I don't really see the point of what you are asking but quite a few guide dogs that don't make the grade for whatever reason have gone on to be police dogs, customs and excise dogs, prision service sniffer dogs as well as medical detection dogs etc.
They all have had the same early training.
Think there would soon be a huge outcry and rightly so if these dogs were all shot because they didn't make the grade!


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## Alec Swan (31 December 2017)

Sandstone1 the analogy was meant to illustrate that there are breeds of dogs,  and horses too for that matter,  that when they've been bred to perform one specific task and as individuals,  and importantly,  they've fulfilled that roll,  then a complete change of life and emphasis is generally bordering on the absurd and on occasion,  it's cruel.  

Just as Police Dogs would find the work of a Guide Dog a challenge,  as would expecting them to perform the roll with any degree of success,  so it's the same with bench kept Hounds which have lived a kennelled and pack existence,  and to expect them to adjust to a domestic life whereby it would be unlikely that they could ever have their freedom would be considered by many to be unrealistic and all so often,  with predictable results.

Alec.


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## Goldenstar (31 December 2017)

I could never date a vegan it&#8217;s too odds with my belief of how the humans role in the world works .
Too be honest OP I would get hunting and change the boyfriend he has no right to seek to prevent you going something you want to do .
I loath people with beliefs who seek to amend the behaviour of those around them in line with their beliefs .


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## Sandstone1 (31 December 2017)

Alec Swan said:



			Sandstone1 the analogy was meant to illustrate that there are breeds of dogs,  and horses too for that matter,  that when they've been bred to perform one specific task and as individuals,  and importantly,  they've fulfilled that roll,  then a complete change of life and emphasis is generally bordering on the absurd and on occasion,  it's cruel.  

Just as Police Dogs would find the work of a Guide Dog a challenge,  as would expecting them to perform the roll with any degree of success,  so it's the same with bench kept Hounds which have lived a kennelled and pack existence,  and to expect them to adjust to a domestic life whereby it would be unlikely that they could ever have their freedom would be considered by many to be unrealistic and all so often,  with predictable results.

Alec.
		
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I can except that to a degree but I'm pointing out that some dogs that have been bred to be guide dogs and in some cases have done their early training do go on to do another jobs.  As in police dogs, sniffer dogs etc.
As also quite a few retired race horses go on to to other jobs.  I.e.
eventing,dressage,hacking and show jumping.  Yes of course some don't take to it but a lot do.
Also ex racing greyhounds are often bought up in a kennel, not housetrained and taught to chase but lots of them are rehomed and make great pets.
Ex hunting beagles are also sometimes rehomed. Again bought up in kennels, taught to hunt as a pack, not housetrained but can and do learn to live as a pet.  In fact I know one who's recently passed away after living as a pet for several years after being given to a pet home because he didn't want to hunt.
I'm not suggesting that all foxhounds could or should be rehomed and they would certainly make challenging pets but  it wouldn't be impossible in the right hands.
I'm guessing it doesn't happen because hunts don't allow it to.


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## frankster (31 December 2017)

Bri101 said:



			This is my intention completely but he isn't at all convinced it's clean
		
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Does he believe that bloodhounds kill the trail layer/runner then?


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## Abi90 (31 December 2017)

frankster said:



			Does he believe that bloodhounds kill the trail layer/runner then?
		
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The only vegans I know would be alright with that!


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## Flame_ (31 December 2017)

I really respect proper vegans and their across the board, total disapproval of the traditionally accepted practices of killing, eating, enslaving, using, etc of animals by humans, far more so than the half-arsed, hypocritical perspectives of most do-gooders who think the meat industry is fine because they love sausages but killing badgers is tight because they're cute and waddly, pest control is fine because rats are gross but killing foxes is cruel because posh people enjoy the activity of doing it, etc....

It's a very difficult stance to adopt and personally, I very much admire anyone who subscribes to it and lives by it, but it is an all or nothing mindset IMHO and if you can't get on board with it all, if you're anything like me and many others, because it would mean missing out on too many things that make you happy and would make you totally incompatible with most of society, I would tell him so, do what you please and let him chose either to disapprove but live with it, or do one.


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## Cinnamontoast (31 December 2017)

Given your seeming lack of knowledge on hunting the clean boot, OP, I&#8217;m not surprised he&#8217;s against. Have you actually bothered to do research? Had you told him from the outset that a trail is laid/humans are chased, I doubt he would have objected so strongly.


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## Goldenstar (31 December 2017)

Flame_ said:



			I really respect proper vegans and their across the board, total disapproval of the traditionally accepted practices of killing, eating, enslaving, using, etc of animals by humans, far more so than the half-arsed, hypocritical perspectives of most do-gooders who think the meat industry is fine because they love sausages but killing badgers is tight because they're cute and waddly, pest control is fine because rats are gross but killing foxes is cruel because posh people enjoy the activity of doing it, etc....

It's a very difficult stance to adopt and personally, I very much admire anyone who subscribes to it and lives by it, but it is an all or nothing mindset IMHO and if you can't get on board with it all, if you're anything like me and many others, because it would mean missing out on too many things that make you happy and would make you totally incompatible with most of society, I would tell him so, do what you please and let him chose either to disapprove but live with it, or do one.
		
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Do you admire them I don&#8217;t , I think they refuse acknowledge the essence of being human which is we are animals just like any other just a bit clever and better at manipulating our environment .
I admire more those who treat animals  who we are going to eat or use in some way  in truly ethical ways far more .


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## Alec Swan (31 December 2017)

Flame_ said:



			I really respect proper vegans and their across the board, total disapproval of the traditionally accepted practices of killing, eating, enslaving, using, etc of animals by humans, far more so than the half-arsed, hypocritical perspectives of most do-gooders who think the meat industry is fine because they love sausages but killing badgers is tight because they're cute and waddly, pest control is fine because rats are gross but killing foxes is cruel because posh people enjoy the activity of doing it, etc....

It's a very difficult stance to adopt and personally, I very much admire anyone who subscribes to it and lives by it, but it is an all or nothing mindset IMHO and if you can't get on board with it all, if you're anything like me and many others, because it would mean missing out on too many things that make you happy and would make you totally incompatible with most of society, I would tell him so, do what you please and let him chose either to disapprove but live with it, or do one.
		
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A remarkable and incisive post and I too have an admiration of those with principles (however balmy to the rest of us) and then stick to them.  

What the 'average'-what ever that may be-vegan,  generally fails to understand or even accept is that those who manage animals,  generally-though-not-always are those who understand the animal and provide for its welfare and to the best of their abilities.

Alec.


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## popsdosh (31 December 2017)

Sandstone1 said:



			I'm not suggesting that all foxhounds could or should be rehomed and they would certainly make challenging pets but  it wouldn't be impossible in the right hands.
I'm guessing it doesn't happen because hunts don't allow it to.
		
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 Im afraid it would be a lot more challenging than you ever imagine! A good example are hound pups who are sent out to various families and those mentally challenged enough to take them ;-) For what is called puppy walking! lovely cute pups turn up normally a pair(as they are twice the fun) . This is for them to get used to life around them and to get used to some basics . Even starting with the raw material I would suggest that a very high proportion of walkers cannot wait for the huntsman to come and take them away a few months later they just dont settle into a domestic environment and can cause havoc the more so as they get older. So it has nothing to do with basic training it is nature overcoming Nurture. 
It can work but more often than not it wont.


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## Alec Swan (31 December 2017)

popsdosh said:



			Im afraid it would be a lot more challenging than you ever imagine! A good example are hound pups who are sent out to various families and those mentally challenged enough to take them ;-) For what is called puppy walking! lovely cute pups turn up normally a pair(as they are twice the fun) . This is for them to get used to life around them and to get used to some basics . Even starting with the raw material I would suggest that a very high proportion of walkers cannot wait for the huntsman to come and take them away a few months later they just dont settle into a domestic environment and can cause havoc the more so as they get older. So it has nothing to do with basic training it is nature overcoming Nurture. 
It can work but more often than not it wont.
		
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&#8230;. and then of course,  perhaps we should consider the adult Hound who's been handed over to the well intentioned but totally un-prepared person who whilst naively though well intentioned,  hasn't a clue what they're doing.  

Can we imagine the situation?  7-8 years old,  fresh out of kennels,  let's assume that they've got through the first night of Strumpet in the kitchen,  or God forbid the lounge,  had they considered house-training?  The Master had,  had the adopter considered the distress to the Hound so caused by removing it from its environment,  the one that it knew and understood?  The Master had,  he had more respect for his hound and considered it better that Strumpet met an immediate and instant end,  rather than suffer an all but certain and miserable future.

Alec.


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## oldie48 (31 December 2017)

Our development as a species was accelerated when we began living by the sea and started to eat fish so we didn't have to spend all out time gathering nuts and berries. I think you should suggest to your bf that he lives on nuts and berries etc that he gathers himself as clearly most food in the shops is produced by non vegans and is therefore "tainted", go hunting (but learn to ride your pony first so you don't kill yourself) and wear your red doc martins with pride as a cow died to make them for you. IMHE long term relationships are difficult enough when both people hold similar beliefs and values, even then you need huge dollops of generosity and compromise, yours sadly seems to have none of these things and sounds DOOMED! Happy New year!


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## cobgoblin (31 December 2017)

Do vegans take modern medicines?
How about vaccines that have been animal tested?


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## Alec Swan (31 December 2017)

cobgoblin said:



			Do vegans take modern medicines?
How about vaccines that have been animal tested?
		
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. never thought of that,  and so logically,  we could ask "Do vegans generally make old age or are they doomed to early funerals? - it wouldn't surprise me". 

My apologies to any vegans present. :wink3:

Alec.


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## Pedantic (31 December 2017)

No hunting no nookie, simples.


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## Sandstone1 (31 December 2017)

popsdosh said:



			Im afraid it would be a lot more challenging than you ever imagine! A good example are hound pups who are sent out to various families and those mentally challenged enough to take them ;-) For what is called puppy walking! lovely cute pups turn up normally a pair(as they are twice the fun) . This is for them to get used to life around them and to get used to some basics . Even starting with the raw material I would suggest that a very high proportion of walkers cannot wait for the huntsman to come and take them away a few months later they just dont settle into a domestic environment and can cause havoc the more so as they get older. So it has nothing to do with basic training it is nature overcoming Nurture. 
It can work but more often than not it wont.
		
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I appreciate they would certainly be a handful and not for everyone.  My point is that  dogs and horses can and do go on to do other jobs other than the one they were bred for.
If you think that every animal should be shot when not doing the job it was bred for there will be a hell of a lot of dead animals.


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## Alec Swan (31 December 2017)

Pedantic said:



			No hunting no nookie, simples.
		
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Neither are reliant upon the other,  at least not here in Norfolk! 

Welcome back young man and seasonal greetings and all that bullocks!

Alec.


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## Peter7917 (31 December 2017)

There is a woman near me who has a retired fox hound. He seems happy enough. She walks him and her other dogs around this big lake. I can hear the bloody thing the entire way round even if I'm the other side; it's so vocal!! 

Likewise where I hunted in Ireland, the huntsmasters daughter has one of the hounds as a pet that lives in the house.


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## fredflop (1 January 2018)

popsdosh said:



			Im afraid it would be a lot more challenging than you ever imagine! A good example are hound pups who are sent out to various families and those mentally challenged enough to take them ;-) For what is called puppy walking! lovely cute pups turn up normally a pair(as they are twice the fun) . This is for them to get used to life around them and to get used to some basics . Even starting with the raw material I would suggest that a very high proportion of walkers cannot wait for the huntsman to come and take them away a few months later they just dont settle into a domestic environment and can cause havoc the more so as they get older. So it has nothing to do with basic training it is nature overcoming Nurture. 
It can work but more often than not it wont.
		
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There is at least one dog rescue charity in Ireland that think foxhounds make wonderful pets, even stating that one of the best pets they&#8217;ve ever had is an ex pack foxhound. I find it very hard to believe.


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## claret09 (1 January 2018)

life is too short. you deserve better. I would never say it to anyone normally but you sound  incompatible. horses are none negotiable in my book. love me love my horse. i feel sorry for you. but good luck I hope you are able to sort it out 



Bri101 said:



			He's against everything I do with my horse, right down to the leather on my tack! Trouble is horse came after the boyfriend and when I met him, I was having a break from horses because of some health issues so my hobby was never an issue until I decided I was right enough to buy myself a horse of my very own. We have been together for 2 years but we really have hit a point where it's testing me
		
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## Pedantic (1 January 2018)

Alec Swan said:



			I suppose that you were also one of those who was in support of Kauto Star taking up a new career as a dressage horse!  that worked a treat,  didn't it?  The analogy is the same,  animals which have been bred and importantly 'used',  often for centuries,  and to do one specific job (thinking racehorses,  greyhounds,  and bloodhounds too),  and it is generally kinder,  as happens with foxhounds,  that their light is switched off,  humanely and instantly rather than inflict a life of well intentioned but ignorant treatment upon them,  as generally happens.

Alec.
		
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How we should treat terrorist's and traitors returning from abroad.


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## popsdosh (1 January 2018)

Sandstone1 said:



			I appreciate they would certainly be a handful and not for everyone.  My point is that  dogs and horses can and do go on to do other jobs other than the one they were bred for.
If you think that every animal should be shot when not doing the job it was bred for there will be a hell of a lot of dead animals.
		
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Where have I suggested that outcome,you may disagree with my post but please dont attribute things to me I havent suggested. However there are worse outcomes for animals that cannot be retrained IMO now you have brought it up.


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## RaposadeGengibre (1 January 2018)

Pedantic said:



			No hunting no nookie, simples.
		
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Straight to the point!


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## hellybelly6 (2 January 2018)

Drag hunting?


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## Pedantic (2 January 2018)

hellybelly6 said:



			Drag hunting?
		
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What, hunting men dressed as women, ffffffffffssssssssssss, may not go down to well in this gender neutral fluid Mangina Pegina Vagenis times we live in....


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## Alec Swan (2 January 2018)

^^^^  

Alec.


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## Sandstone1 (2 January 2018)

popsdosh said:



			Where have I suggested that outcome,you may disagree with my post but please dont attribute things to me I havent suggested. However there are worse outcomes for animals that cannot be retrained IMO now you have brought it up.
		
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I wasn't actually replying to you.  Why did you assume I was?


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## limestonelil (2 January 2018)

Pedantic said:



			What, hunting men dressed as women, ffffffffffssssssssssss, may not go down to well in this gender neutral fluid Mangina Pegina Vagenis times we live in....
		
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Just  LOL Pedantic, great post.


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## Alec Swan (2 January 2018)

Sandstone1 said:



			I wasn't actually replying to you.  Why did you assume I was?
		
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Generally,  and on here,  when we put up a quote,  and then pass comments,  it's assumed that we're responding to our heading quote.  Mostly,  that's how it works on here.

Alec.


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## Sandstone1 (2 January 2018)

Alec Swan said:



			Generally,  and on here,  when we put up a quote,  and then pass comments,  it's assumed that we're responding to our heading quote.  Mostly,  that's how it works on here.

Alec.
		
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Yes I'm aware of that Thank you.  I think you will find it was Popdosh who originally quoted my post.  I simply replied to that comment.
I believe I was answering a post from you in the first place where you implied that animals bred for a certain purpose are often better off shot than being rehomed or trained to do a different job.
I apologise for any confusion.


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## Sandstone1 (2 January 2018)

Alec Swan said:



			Sandstone1 the analogy was meant to illustrate that there are breeds of dogs,  and horses too for that matter,  that when they've been bred to perform one specific task and as individuals,  and importantly,  they've fulfilled that roll,  then a complete change of life and emphasis is generally bordering on the absurd and on occasion,  it's cruel.  

Just as Police Dogs would find the work of a Guide Dog a challenge,  as would expecting them to perform the roll with any degree of success,  so it's the same with bench kept Hounds which have lived a kennelled and pack existence,  and to expect them to adjust to a domestic life whereby it would be unlikely that they could ever have their freedom would be considered by many to be unrealistic and all so often,  with predictable results.

Alec.
		
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This is one of your posts  I was originally replying to.


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## popsdosh (2 January 2018)

Sandstone1 said:



			This is one of your posts  I was originally replying to.
		
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I think you need to look at your post 118 to realise why I reacted as I did


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## Sandstone1 (2 January 2018)

Yes I can see that it caused confusion and apologise for that.


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## Dave's Mam (3 January 2018)

Can't find the post to quote from, but Police Dogs are usually retired to their handler as a pet, as they usually live with them anyway & only go in work mode when their work harness comes out, so they slip into a happy retirement very easily.  (And Home know how to keep life interesting!)


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## Orangehorse (3 January 2018)

Drag Hunting - well that should please EVERYONE in these gender unspecific times.


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## tallyho! (3 January 2018)

Orangehorse said:



			Drag Hunting - well that should please EVERYONE in these gender unspecific times.
		
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I don't know why but when you mentioned "gender unspecific" and "drag" - my mind immediately painted an image of Dame Edna out hunting on a horse...


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## Annagain (3 January 2018)

OP - Would it be right if you started passing comment on his canvas / plastic shoes, his meat & dairy free meals, his hobbies to the point he felt he had no choice but to eat meat / wear leather  / give up doing what he loved to keep the peace? I'm guessing you wouldn't dream of doing that to a loved one? 

He is perfectly entitled to his views / lifestyle. He is NOT entitled to force them (either overtly or by constantly undermining your choices) onto you.


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## Alec Swan (3 January 2018)

annagain said:



			..  He is perfectly entitled to his views / lifestyle. He is NOT entitled to force them (either overtly or by constantly undermining your choices) onto you.
		
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I'm with you . but it does seem strange doesn't it;  We meet and fall in love,  we spend the next 3 months diving down each others throats and in some sort of delirious sense of suspension,  we plan a life together,  we set up home and then all of a sudden,  this paragon,  this beautiful and wonderful person suddenly appears to have flaws,  faults,  there's stuff about them that we don't like and we want them to change ..

OP  there's a meaningful and unequivocal two word exchange which is in common usage,  it's available to you and the second word is OFF.  I'd suggest that you use it and continue to do so until the penny drops.  [edit] And if he leaves,  he can take those bloody rats with him too!  Thinking about it further,  you could always get a cat,  I suppose. :wink3:

Alec.


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## Chinchilla (3 January 2018)

Alec Swan said:



			OP &#8212; there's a meaningful and unequivocal two word exchange which is in common usage,  it's available to you and the second word is OFF.  I'd suggest that you use it and continue to do so until the penny drops.  [edit] And if he leaves,  he can take those bloody rats with him too!  Thinking about it further,  you could always get a cat,  I suppose. :wink3:

Alec.
		
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LMFAO

oi don't bully rodents if ya please - if I were OP I'd rather have the rats than the boyfriend LOL !


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## Archangel (3 January 2018)

Alec Swan said:



			and then all of a sudden,  this paragon,  this beautiful and wonderful person suddenly appears to have flaws,  faults,  there's stuff about them that we don't like and we want them to change ..
		
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The faults and flaws are always fully on display in those first months.  We choose to gloss over them. 
*Archangel knows from bitter experience* :redface3:
*Archangel never learns* :frown3:




			And if he leaves,  he can take those bloody rats with him too!
		
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## Frumpoon (3 January 2018)

God I read the title and thought you were hunting for a vegan boyfriend

Why on earth would you want one of those


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## Mrs B (3 January 2018)

Frumpoon said:



			God I read the title and thought you were hunting for a vegan boyfriend
		
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Do Vegan Hounds follow an old sprout scented trail, I wonder?


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## Meredith (3 January 2018)

Mrs B said:



			Do Vegan Hounds follow an old sprout scented trail, I wonder?
		
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But of course


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## Jellymoon (4 January 2018)

It&#8217;s nice that he loves animals so much, that&#8217;s great, but tbh he doesn&#8217;t sound like much FUN. And as a middle-aged married person, mostly happily married to the same man for a number of years, if I can pass on any wisdom to the younger generations about relationships, it would be that you don&#8217;t have to have the same interests at all, but you do need to find someone who doesn&#8217;t take life too seriously.


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## Alec Swan (4 January 2018)

Jellymoon said:



			It&#8217;s nice that he loves animals so much, that&#8217;s great, but tbh he doesn&#8217;t sound like much FUN. And as a middle-aged married person, mostly happily married to the same man for a number of years, if I can pass on any wisdom to the younger generations about relationships, it would be that you don&#8217;t have to have the same interests at all, but you do need to find someone who doesn&#8217;t take life too seriously.
		
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What an interesting and incisive post.  A question for you OP (who's name I've forgotten :redface3: &#8212; Bri101 it seems!  ) do you ever laugh together,  I mean really laugh?

Every vegan who I've ever met seems to be on a bit of a mission,  they seem to be campaigners,  they're so bloody serious.  I wonder if vegans fart more or less than normal people &#8212; does anyone know?

Alec.


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## Dave's Mam (4 January 2018)

Alec Swan said:



			What an interesting and incisive post.  A question for you OP (who's name I've forgotten :redface3: &#8212; Bri101 it seems!  ) do you ever laugh together,  I mean really laugh?

Every vegan who I've ever met seems to be on a bit of a mission,  they seem to be campaigners,  they're so bloody serious.  I wonder if vegans fart more or less than normal people &#8212; does anyone know?

Alec.
		
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I also totally agree with Jellymoon.

I also agree with you wholeheartedly.  To laugh with someone, proper tear inducing belly laughter is the basis of all friendships & indeed the friendship with the other person in your life.

There was a vegan on the radio tonight on my way to the yard.  OMG.  There are too many cows, they create methane which pollutes.  I was yelling at the radio, "So what are you going to do with all these methane creating beasties?  Send em into space?"


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## TheOldTrout (4 January 2018)

Dave's Mam said:



			I also totally agree with Jellymoon.

I also agree with you wholeheartedly.  To laugh with someone, proper tear inducing belly laughter is the basis of all friendships & indeed the friendship with the other person in your life.

There was a vegan on the radio tonight on my way to the yard.  OMG.  There are too many cows, they create methane which pollutes.  I was yelling at the radio, "So what are you going to do with all these methane creating beasties?  Send em into space?"
		
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At least if they're on the radio you can switch them off!


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## Suncat (4 January 2018)

Frumpoon said:



			God I read the title and thought you were hunting for a vegan boyfriend

Why on earth would you want one of those
		
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Hahaha, me too!!


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## Meredith (4 January 2018)

Jellymoon said:



			It&#8217;s nice that he loves animals so much, that&#8217;s great, but tbh he doesn&#8217;t sound like much FUN. And as a middle-aged married person, mostly happily married to the same man for a number of years, if I can pass on any wisdom to the younger generations about relationships, it would be that you don&#8217;t have to have the same interests at all, but you do need to find someone who doesn&#8217;t take life too seriously.
		
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I agree too. A friend once remarked to me &#8220; I couldn&#8217;t understand how you and ( insert name of beloved husband of over 40 years) got together as you seem to have nothing in common then I realised how much you laugh together&#8221;


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## Dave's Mam (4 January 2018)

Meredith said:



			I agree too. A friend once remarked to me &#8220; I couldn&#8217;t understand how you and ( insert name of beloved husband of over 40 years) got together as you seem to have nothing in common then I realised how much you laugh together&#8221;
		
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That's just it.


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## Ellietotz (4 January 2018)

I'm not certain that the reason he is being an a$$ is because he's vegan. I think he does that all by himself! I'd tell him to P off if he told me how to live my life! Plus, if my OH started telling me that horses should be schooled and this and that, I would tell him to shut the hell up talking about something he knows nothing about. Can you imagine how he would react if you started telling him how to be vegan and that he is doing it wrong? Blimey.. could you imagine if you had to get your horse scoped or something that required starvation beforehand too? All hell would break loose! I'm in the dump him club too! Sorry!


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## Jellymoon (5 January 2018)

Well, I could have been even more incisive and said: ditch him, he sounds like a boring old fart (literally!)


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## Toby_Zaphod (5 January 2018)

I heard something the other day........ How can you tell when someone you meet is Vegan?.......... Within the first few minutes of conversation they will tell you!

They seem to be a group who wish to throw their beliefs on everyone & anyone that will listen to them. They will not listen to any argument against their belief & argue that they hold the moral ground. I have a daughter who is vegan, she knows now not to try & hoist her beliefs on anyone without them initiating the debate.


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## Fidgety (5 January 2018)

A neighbouring village is under threat of a meat processing/incineration plant re-locating there and there is a very active local protest group on FB - one vegan put up a waspish post wondering if all those who were against were vegans(!).  The company has already ruined one village locally thanks to the lorries, the dripping of fluids onto the roads, the smell and the flies, but the holier than thou assumption that to not want something like that on your doorstep is hypocritical if you eat meat was quite something.  

I wonder if in their quest to convert the world and his dog, they have ever thought about what the world would do with all the redundant farm animals and ancient breeds if they succeeded?  Would they be put in zoos, kept as pets or allowed to become extinct?


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## Fidgety (5 January 2018)

Double post


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## Ambers Echo (5 January 2018)

The problem isn't that he's vegan. I have a great vegan friend who never imposes her views on others. I also have a totally hippy Aunt who rescues Dartmoor ponies due for slaughter every year after the drift and leaves them feral on her land as they are 'free spirits'. She thoroughly disapproves of riding horses but would never try to convert anyone to her own view point. My daughter has been vegetarian since she was 8 years old when I presented the family with a roast chicken. "But mummy it's a CHICKEN" Yes, love it's chicken.... "No you don't understand it's actually a REAL CHICKEN" Lol. She is in a carnivorous foodie family but I fully respect her choice.

The problem is this man is dictating what YOU can do. Your first post says you have tried every argument under the sun but you can't convince him. Well so what. You don't have to convince him! You can do what you want. You don't need his permission or his blessing to follow a childhood dream or pursue an interest. If he thinks you do then THAT is the problem. Today whether you hunt and what you wear, tomorrow how much you spend and what you drink, next month who you can be friends with........ Seen it happen. 

You don't necessarily have to dump him but you do (I think) need to re-negotiate the terms of this relationship. He is NOT allowed to tell you what you can and can't do. Especially when his objections aren't even rational as bloodhounds don't kill foxes. I did tell my OH that if he ate fillet of foal on honeymoon which was the special of the day at our hotel it would be the shortest marriage in history. I was not serious of course but out of respect for me he declined  it. Mutual respect for each other's feelings and beliefs is one thing. Dictatorship is another. Be careful. X


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## Meredith (5 January 2018)

Ambers Echo said:



			The problem isn't that he's vegan. I have a great vegan friend who never imposes her views on others. I also have a totally hippy Aunt who rescues Dartmoor ponies due for slaughter every year after the drift and leaves them feral on her land as they are 'free spirits'. She thoroughly disapproves of riding horses but would never try to convert anyone to her own view point. My daughter has been vegetarian since she was 8 years old when I presented the family with a roast chicken. "But mummy it's a CHICKEN" Yes, love it's chicken.... "No you don't understand it's actually a REAL CHICKEN" Lol. She is in a carnivorous foodie family but I fully respect her choice.

The problem is this man is dictating what YOU can do. Your first post says you have tried every argument under the sun but you can't convince him. Well so what. You don't have to convince him! You can do what you want. You don't need his permission or his blessing to follow a childhood dream or pursue an interest. If he thinks you do then THAT is the problem. Today whether you hunt and what you wear, tomorrow how much you spend and what you drink, next month who you can be friends with........ Seen it happen. 

You don't necessarily have to dump him but you do (I think) need to re-negotiate the terms of this relationship. He is NOT allowed to tell you what you can and can't do. Especially when his objections aren't even rational as bloodhounds don't kill foxes. I did tell my OH that if he ate fillet of foal on honeymoon which was the special of the day at our hotel it would be the shortest marriage in history. I was not serious of course but out of respect for me he declined  it. Mutual respect for each other's feelings and beliefs is one thing. Dictatorship is another. Be careful. X
		
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Beautifully put.


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## McFluff (5 January 2018)

Ambers Echo said:



			The problem isn't that he's vegan. I have a great vegan friend who never imposes her views on others. I also have a totally hippy Aunt who rescues Dartmoor ponies due for slaughter every year after the drift and leaves them feral on her land as they are 'free spirits'. She thoroughly disapproves of riding horses but would never try to convert anyone to her own view point. My daughter has been vegetarian since she was 8 years old when I presented the family with a roast chicken. "But mummy it's a CHICKEN" Yes, love it's chicken.... "No you don't understand it's actually a REAL CHICKEN" Lol. She is in a carnivorous foodie family but I fully respect her choice.

The problem is this man is dictating what YOU can do. Your first post says you have tried every argument under the sun but you can't convince him. Well so what. You don't have to convince him! You can do what you want. You don't need his permission or his blessing to follow a childhood dream or pursue an interest. If he thinks you do then THAT is the problem. Today whether you hunt and what you wear, tomorrow how much you spend and what you drink, next month who you can be friends with........ Seen it happen. 

You don't necessarily have to dump him but you do (I think) need to re-negotiate the terms of this relationship. He is NOT allowed to tell you what you can and can't do. Especially when his objections aren't even rational as bloodhounds don't kill foxes. I did tell my OH that if he ate fillet of foal on honeymoon which was the special of the day at our hotel it would be the shortest marriage in history. I was not serious of course but out of respect for me he declined  it. Mutual respect for each other's feelings and beliefs is one thing. Dictatorship is another. Be careful. X
		
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Great advice - need a like button


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## Alec Swan (5 January 2018)

Ambers Echo said:



			&#8230;&#8230;.. . I did tell my OH that if he ate fillet of foal on honeymoon which was the special of the day at our hotel it would be the shortest marriage in history. I was not serious of course but out of respect for me he declined  it. Mutual respect for each other's feelings and beliefs is one thing. Dictatorship is another. Be careful. X
		
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Considering the example which you've posted,  I wonder where the tipping point is which separates acquiescence and compliance.  

Alec.


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## Ambers Echo (5 January 2018)

Perhaps at the point at which I said it was a joke?

I would have found it genuinely upsetting for him to eat fillet of foal. Irrational - yes. But we all are to some extent. I would hate him to eat dog too. He was not bothered either way so he declined it. If it particularly mattered to him I would have let it go.

Another example in our relationship was him considering a job with the Atomic Weapons Research Agency. That would have caused me a LOT of issues so we discussed it at length. The key phrase being DISCUSSED. Not setting ultimatums or making threats or forbidding him. As it happens he had his own issues with that so went a different direction in his career.

We try to see each other's points of view and we try to avoid causing unnecessary aggravation to each other via mutual respect. But part of a relationship is honesty about hpw we feel about various issues I think.


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## Equi (5 January 2018)

Fidgety said:



			A neighbouring village is under threat of a meat processing/incineration plant re-locating there and there is a very active local protest group on FB - one vegan put up a waspish post wondering if all those who were against were vegans(!).  The company has already ruined one village locally thanks to the lorries, the dripping of fluids onto the roads, the smell and the flies, but the holier than thou assumption that to not want something like that on your doorstep is hypocritical if you eat meat was quite something.  

I wonder if in their quest to convert the world and his dog, they have ever thought about what the world would do with all the redundant farm animals and ancient breeds if they succeeded?  Would they be put in zoos, kept as pets or allowed to become extinct?
		
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I asked a vegan about this and they said that they (being dairy cows, pigs and chickens etc)  are man made animals so they dont belong in this world anyway. Said vegan was a horse rider but thats okay because there are wild horses. 

I didnt even bother to start on that one....I mean..wow..

Same person also said if were supposed to be related to chimps why do we eat meat cause chimps dont. 

The extreme denial of some vegans is what drives me up the wall the most. 

I do know a lovely one who at Xmas meal but just made sure the server knew she was the vegan who had called ahead and she said nothing but lovely things about her meal as they had gone to quite a great effort (as in it wasnt just a plate of tomatoes and lettuce) but she never once brought up how she cant eat meat cause its immoral. Just enjoyed the meal and got on with it. But tbh I query some eating disorder as she is a skeleton and the amount she ate of the meal was sparse lol


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## Alec Swan (5 January 2018)

equi said:



			..

Same person also said if were supposed to be related to chimps why do we eat meat cause chimps dont. 

..
		
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Strangely enough they do eat meat and to worsen matters,  they hunt,  kill and eat,  other monkeys.  They're cannibals,  sort of.

Alec.


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## Pearlsasinger (5 January 2018)

Bri101 said:



			He never told me to give anything up just pushed me to the point of giving them up with the comments I got anytime I did something. I stopped wearing my favourite pair of shoes (red doc martens) after all the comments I got when wearing them.
		
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Now that is true manipulative controlling behaviour - emotional blackmail.


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## Winifleur (5 January 2018)

Bri101 said:



			He's against everything I do with my horse, right down to the leather on my tack! Trouble is horse came after the boyfriend and when I met him, I was having a break from horses because of some health issues so my hobby was never an issue until I decided I was right enough to buy myself a horse of my very own. We have been together for 2 years but we really have hit a point where it's testing me
		
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Then there is no point carrying on with him. Horses are such a commitment that the other half of a horse owner has to at least be agreeable.


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## Equi (5 January 2018)

Alec Swan said:



			Strangely enough they do eat meat and to worsen matters,  they hunt,  kill and eat,  other monkeys.  They're cannibals,  sort of.

Alec.
		
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Yup they certainly do but you cant tell that to some people cause they dont believe actual facts &#128514;


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