# Help with Stallion choice pleae.



## sare_bear (11 April 2015)

I seem to be going round in circles at the minute with stallion choices.

Mare 1 - pure Trakehner by Suchard has evented to Novice by a complete amateur, highly rated by professional. 2 progeny competed at 1.20 SJ / Novice eventing, and 1 of those went to Hoys for working hunter. 3rd by Fleetwater Opposition turned out to be cracking. Caroline Moore said he had one of the best front end techniques she had seen in a long time! Sadly he inherited asymmetrical front feet (not from the dam), that have plagued him. She is a slightly stress mare, Germanic, likes her routine. Needs an uphill stallion, with good feet as she is a bit flat and most importantly good temperament.
Breeding for eventing and sale so need a commercial stallion.

Had Ricardo Z on the list, but gone off him, as seen a fair few nappy horses by him. 
Balou du rouet is top of the list at the moment. I hear they can be sensitive and not sure whether it would be right temperament match. 
Any advice on his progeny.
Liked Future Illusion, not sure I would risk FO line again and his SJ is not great.
Had looked at Billy stallions, but they won't add anything to the movement and although she is a good mover, she could have more powerful back end movement.
I am in Ireland, so any Irish stallions would be great too as wouldn't have to use frozen. Max stallion size 16.3hh

Mare 2 - Half Trakehner, Half Westphalian, by Pilot. Was a great mare, but unfortunately had an accident and hurt her pelvis. She is now sound, but don't think she will stand up to eventing and is not a happy hacker! She can be sharp, so temperament important. She is uphill with good paces, could do with a better front shoulder and is a little too short coupled. She has a very correct SJ technique and is careful. OBOS quality was top of list, but he will not improve the shoulder.
? Carrick diamond lad - maybe too short coupled himself. 
Lancelot? - Would likely produce more of a sj.
Struggling to find a nice ISH that would complement her. Is Captain Clover still alive?
Would rather stick to fresh semen for her first foal.

Any suggestions would be great. Thanks.


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## sare_bear (11 April 2015)

Does anyone know where Clover Brigade is standing as he would be another contender? Thanks


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## Springs (11 April 2015)

Two other contenders for eventing would be Spring's Spirit and Springfield Symphony both around 75% TB so ideal for eventing


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## ihatework (11 April 2015)

Mare 1 Ramiro B?

I'm putting my mare to Balou du Rouet


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## Lgd (12 April 2015)

Silvermoon for the trakh mare. He produces performance across all disciplines. Friend has a 4yo by him that has been a doddle to back and has a huge pop. His year older full sibling is already doing well BE. Both have fantastic temperament. If you search Stolen Silver Sport horses on Facebook there are pics of him on there.
second mare - if you can get hold of semen, the now deceased Upton's Deli Circus would be a contender. Offspring have a good temperament and he performed himself. Another couple to consider would be Sula Blue or Revolution. I have seen a few of the latter's offspring and have been well impressed. There's also the young stallion Future Gravitas.


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## TheMule (12 April 2015)

I would have toput mare 1 to something like Jackaroo- she sounds ideal to breed eventers but the foal would be more commercial with a higher percentage of blood than those SJ sires are going to give you


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## sywell (12 April 2015)

sare_bear said:



			I seem to be going round in circles at the minute with stallion choices.

Mare 1 - pure Trakehner by Suchard has evented to Novice by a complete amateur, highly rated by professional. 2 progeny competed at 1.20 SJ / Novice eventing, and 1 of those went to Hoys for working hunter. 3rd by Fleetwater Opposition turned out to be cracking. Caroline Moore said he had one of the best front end techniques she had seen in a long time! Sadly he inherited asymmetrical front feet (not from the dam), that have plagued him. She is a slightly stress mare, Germanic, likes her routine. Needs an uphill stallion, with good feet as she is a bit flat and most importantly good temperament.
Breeding for eventing and sale so need a commercial stallion.

Had Ricardo Z on the list, but gone off him, as seen a fair few nappy horses by him. 
Balou du rouet is top of the list at the moment. I hear they can be sensitive and not sure whether it would be right temperament match. 
Any advice on his progeny.
Liked Future Illusion, not sure I would risk FO line again and his SJ is not great.
Had looked at Billy stallions, but they won't add anything to the movement and although she is a good mover, she could have more powerful back end movement.
I am in Ireland, so any Irish stallions would be great too as wouldn't have to use frozen. Max stallion size 16.3hh

Mare 2 - Half Trakehner, Half Westphalian, by Pilot. Was a great mare, but unfortunately had an accident and hurt her pelvis. She is now sound, but don't think she will stand up to eventing and is not a happy hacker! She can be sharp, so temperament important. She is uphill with good paces, could do with a better front shoulder and is a little too short coupled. She has a very correct SJ technique and is careful. OBOS quality was top of list, but he will not improve the shoulder.
? Carrick diamond lad - maybe too short coupled himself. 
Lancelot? - Would likely produce more of a sj.
Struggling to find a nice ISH that would complement her. Is Captain Clover still alive?
Would rather stick to fresh semen for her first foal.

Any suggestions would be great. Thanks.
		
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I would use chilled from Germany and have done for 20 years with no problems if you are well organised. This gives you a wide choice of stallions with great information from their performance test on temprement and paces. I bred one horse that was selected for the WBFSH Championship for 7 year olds in eventing but really aimed to produce dressage horses.


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## sare_bear (12 April 2015)

Thanks for suggestions so far.

I had looked at Ramiro B, but from his photos he looks quite a rangy horse, which I wasn't necessarily after for mare 1. Will see if I can find some better photos of him.

Silvermoon looks lovely!! So not a typical Trakehner back end. Only reservation is he is not a commercial stallion especially selling from Ireland and second his jumping index isn't that great? as heading in eventing direction not dressage. He looks to cross really well will a bit of ID. Think I would end up with something too light of bone. Though wouldn't completely rule him out.

Love Future Gravitas, but think he is almost a spitting image of the mare in type and using too much like for like. Also not so sure how straight he is through the hindlimb? Is it just the photos. I think a contender for the future.

Sywell - I am in Ireland so not sure if I could get chilled from Germany to here. Will look into it. Any suggestions of suitable German stallion for eventing?

Jackaroo - looks like a good type for mare 2.

It is so hard to find much information on ISH stallions standing in Ireland as just not advertised the same as in the UK. All the ones I like are deceased!! Everything called ISH is mostly warmblood, not what I am looking for, for mare 2. 

Thanks, keep the suggestions coming.


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## sallyf (12 April 2015)

I have a stunning Balou du Rouet 2 year old bred to event .
Dams full sister set to go intermediate at the end of this year after Gatcombe (not allowed to before because of qualification rules  although has already done an IN)
I absolutely lover her , she is kind , intelligent and has the most ameniable temperament.
Sure she will be sharp but then so is the dam line and she is the most trusting horse on the property.
She is a born show off though.
This is her.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...929707247.1073741868.536002246&type=3&theater

I have also used Cordess , Check in and have a Diarado due in 8 weeks on my high percentage TB mares to breed for eventing


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## sare_bear (12 April 2015)

Thanks Sallyf. Your Balou filly is gorgeous! I really like Balou stock that I have seen, but have seen some that are most definitely a professional ride only, which is fine if they are talented, not so great if not. What type of mare was she out of?

Thinking now of Ramiro B for mare no 2. Hmm decisions.


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## Lgd (12 April 2015)

Silvermoon has been seriously underused due to him not being readily available at times due to the then owner's stud policy. He has offspring at a high level in all 3 disciplines. Friend who bred the two above mentioned recently that he also has one jumping 1.60m.


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## Golden_Match_II (12 April 2015)

We put our Novice event/1.20m SJ cob cross mare to Primitive Faerie Tale - 15/16ths TB, son of Primitive Rising and grandson of Ben Faerie. He's got a lovely temperament and had successes at Intermediate/2*/Advanced and one of only 2 competing Elite stallions in British Eventing. Also has one offspring competing at Advanced/3*, two at Intermediate/2* and many at Novice and grassroots. Not sure if he is maybe too much TB for your mares but he is a lovely chap so might improve temperament. Will post pics when ours foals in June - proof of the pudding is in the eating and all that!


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## sallyf (12 April 2015)

sare_bear said:



			Thanks Sallyf. Your Balou filly is gorgeous! I really like Balou stock that I have seen, but have seen some that are most definitely a professional ride only, which is fine if they are talented, not so great if not. What type of mare was she out of?

Thinking now of Ramiro B for mare no 2. Hmm decisions.
		
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Dam is 89% TB but is solid , she isn't very tall but a real power house.
Will try and find a picture.
This is Dams full sister , struggling to find a good one of her mum but they are similar in type.
Dam is maybe slightly smaller and buttier
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...002246.-2207520000.1428845625.&type=3&theater


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## amanda123 (12 April 2015)

I have a lovely yearling by Up With the Lark out of my Fleetwater Opposition/Java Tiger mare that I am very pleased with. If I knew how I would upload a photo!


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## Leo Walker (12 April 2015)

Golden_Match_II said:



			We put our Novice event/1.20m SJ cob cross mare to Primitive Faerie Tale - 15/16ths TB, son of Primitive Rising and grandson of Ben Faerie. He's got a lovely temperament and had successes at Intermediate/2*/Advanced and one of only 2 competing Elite stallions in British Eventing. Also has one offspring competing at Advanced/3*, two at Intermediate/2* and many at Novice and grassroots. Not sure if he is maybe too much TB for your mares but he is a lovely chap so might improve temperament. Will post pics when ours foals in June - proof of the pudding is in the eating and all that!
		
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He is a lovely horse! I worked at the stud he used to stand at. His owner would hack him to us, down the main road, leave him to cover mares and then hack him back home a few days later. Really genuinely lovely nature and very laid back. He did seem to really stamp his stock as well. You could pick out his offspring in the field at a glance


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## amanda123 (12 April 2015)

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll175/amandaelliott9/S0158673_zps2xyjuaqz.jpg


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## amanda123 (12 April 2015)




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## sare_bear (12 April 2015)

Thanks everyone, lots to think about. 

Sallyf - mare 2 is a very similar stamp, but as it is her first foal don't want to spend as much as Balou on her til I know what she throws.
Would you use Ramiro B on a mare of that type. He is not my 'type' as a I like short coupled butty horses, but I am not breeding for myself. 

G-M I loved your event mare and think you will have a cracking foal. Agree that I am not sure if he has enough bone for this mare. I don't mind Tb, but needs to be a stocky one, as she is light of bone.

Amanda - your foal looks lovely. Again I looked at Up with the Lark when using last time, but went with FO instead. I found his movement very similar to this mare and didn't really add to it if you see what I mean.

Thanks everyone, may see if I can post some photos of each as that might help.


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## sare_bear (12 April 2015)

Ihatework - what type of mare are you using Balou on and are you aiming for an eventer? Thanks


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## ihatework (12 April 2015)

sare_bear said:



			Ihatework - what type of mare are you using Balou on and are you aiming for an eventer? Thanks
		
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I'm using a British bred mare who is a mix of SF/ISH, she was bred with the intention of eventing but due to circumstances ended up pure dressage. From what I can gather my mare sound pretty similar in temerament to Balou, intelligent, trainable with a desire to work but a little sensitive - not a mugs ride. I like that.
I'm really looking for a classy allrounder. It will be a keeper, sent to my pro friend to event, and if it doesn't do that job will come back to me to ride/dressage.


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## sallyf (13 April 2015)

sare_bear said:



			Thanks everyone, lots to think about. 

Sallyf - mare 2 is a very similar stamp, but as it is her first foal don't want to spend as much as Balou on her til I know what she throws.
Would you use Ramiro B on a mare of that type. He is not my 'type' as a I like short coupled butty horses, but I am not breeding for myself. 

G-M I loved your event mare and think you will have a cracking foal. Agree that I am not sure if he has enough bone for this mare. I don't mind Tb, but needs to be a stocky one, as she is light of bone.

Amanda - your foal looks lovely. Again I looked at Up with the Lark when using last time, but went with FO instead. I found his movement very similar to this mare and didn't really add to it if you see what I mean.

Thanks everyone, may see if I can post some photos of each as that might help.
		
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Although he has done incredibly well with his offspring Ramiro B just doesn't seem to appeal to me.
Just not my type somehow as i have looked at him a number of times thinking try something UK but haven't in the end.
Of the other 2 i have used that the foals are on the ground, The Cordess yearling is incredibly classy with a fabulous canter , he has gone leggy and kind of lost his trot but think that will come back.
Cordess is Clinton X Burgraf x Nimmerdor which is the same cross as Cornet Oblensky and he is jumping 1.60.
He has gone up in price somewhat , i took a chance when he was inexpensive.
The Check in is quite solid with excellent bone and fabulous movement but is the sharper of the 2 , that said despite being colty he is good to do in fact they both are .
I would say i would use both again as well as Balou.
I am waiting on a Diarado ET foal out of the mare above and then i am going to sit down and look hard at them to see what i think is working the best.
I have always had my own TB stallions so the high % WB showjumper is a new thing for us but we needed fresh blood as we are anumber of generations down the line now and haven't found a replacement TB stallion of the quality i require.


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## sare_bear (13 April 2015)

Thanks sallyf - that really confirms my thoughts about Ramiro B. Produces the goods, but I just don't like the type either.

Has anyone seen the Philanderer in the flesh. I know he is only available to a limited number of mares but again might be a good match for the Trakehner. 

I know breeding is such a gamble, but it is trying to predict what people are looking for in 5 years time. Warmbloods are so popular now for eventing, but will they still be then?

What does anyone think of this horse? Again is proving very popular with the Tb market, so may not cover sport horses now this year, but can ask again.

http://www.kennedyequinecentre.com/#!barely-a-moment-tb/cus

Thanks everyone.


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## ihatework (13 April 2015)

That's a good looking TB, not one I have come across before.

I saw Phillanderer go through the ring as a 3yo at Grafhams stud reduction auction. I had to sit on my hands as I liked him a lot, for me he had more quality than his sire. The hammer came down on him so I'm not sure why the sale fell through.

He's not a horse I've seen much of since, but could probably find out a bit with some digging.
The risk with him is you don't really know what he will throw.


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## sare_bear (13 April 2015)

Ihatework - Barely a moment was imported from Australia and last year was his first season in Ireland. He is a flat tb and I really like him. Though may be better with NH type?

I know what you mean about not knowing what they will throw, so definitely more of a gamble. I like the fact the Philanderer is 1/2 tb, so crossed with the Trak should have a fair bit of blood, with hopefully some ID temperament! If you could find out a bit more about him temperament wise, that would be great. Is he a type Jumbo 'ride like you stole it' or not.


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## Golden_Match_II (14 April 2015)

I have seen Philanderer out eventing and he is a lovely looking stallion - not right for our mare as she needs all the blood she can get, but a really nice looking horse. Lots of presence and class, he looked like a gorgeous event horse! I suppose he may not yet be a true commercial stallion as I'm not sure what stock he has on the ground, but he does look a lovely horse.


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## sare_bear (14 April 2015)

Thanks G_M.

I think I will inquire about Philanderer and see about shipping to Ireland. I think being realistic as it is our first year delving into breeding properly, I think aiming for the top at the beginning with Balou, is probably not the right way to go. Although not commercial yet, may be more recognised by the time the foal is 4. I suppose the only downside is whether I will end up with something more Jumbo than blood despite her being pure Trakehner. Hopefully will keep the sensitivity, but calm the head!!


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## photo_jo (16 April 2015)

sare_bear said:



			Does anyone know where Clover Brigade is standing as he would be another contender? Thanks
		
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Very sadly the amazing Clover Brigade died last year of a heart attack. He does have a stallion son who is a full brother to a 4* eventer but not sure if he is being used yet-Only 4 this year-I'll find out


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## Irish gal (18 April 2015)

You really need to join The Irish horse breeders group on facebook. You'll be able to look at old posts and get all the info you need on stallion choices in Ireland, somebody there has just compiled a database of traditional Irish stallions, with all the stats and you can see that too. If you want commercial stallions then think about some of the foreign horses that are either standing here or can be got through a stud like Kylemore who will do all the inseminations for you for no extra charge, that way you can access some top horses. They have Indoctro, Zirocco Blue and then more economical ones like up and coming horses - Dallas, Dakar, Mr Pleasure. Golden Master - Master Imp son is at Slyguff stud - top eventing breeding.


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## Irish gal (18 April 2015)

Also careful about using unknown horses here, like some that have been mentioned. They might be popular in the UK but trade generally goes one way between the countries so while people in England will have heard of horses standing In Ireland, the reverse is not true. A fabulous Clover Hill Horse to use is Boherdeal Clover, he jumped 1.60 international and represented the country. He's the best Clover hill stallion really....of course Clover hill seems to have passed on his wonderful genes through his daughters and some say his sons do the same - that the talent really comes through as a damsire.


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## sare_bear (18 April 2015)

Thanks Irish gal.

It is a whole different ball game breeding from this side of the water in terms of how commercial the stallion is. I have seen an ad for sparkling celtic clover. Do you know anything about him? 
I think that Ireland has gone so much into the warmblood side and trying to fine a true ISH is now really hard. My problem is I have the warmblood mares and am trying to add ISH breeding to them, whilst the Irish are doing the reverse. (If you see what I mean).
Also struggling to find out who I would register the foals with here, as there is no Trakehner society like in the UK, and HSI register is only for Irish broodmares. 
Do you know anything about Master Blue in terms of temperament?

May end up not breeding anything if can not get them papered somewhere. Very frustrating.


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## Irish gal (18 April 2015)

Where are you based....I have a funny feeling we know each other!! with all those Trakeners, are you in south Tip and did you go see a grass livery last year - Golden Vale Livery - if you did that's me. Anyway, if you're in Tip there is a great stud open day on today, not a million miles fro you, in Offaly - Belmont House Stud - great talks on breeding on as well there. Tons of top breeders here are bringing in foreign mares now too and they are registering them here, so I'll bet you can. Ask on Irish horse breeders facebook page and they will swiftly tell you. Have seen the add for the sparkling Clover horse, all i would say is there are lots of people keeping stallions here, he looks nice but check in the stallion book to see what his progeny have done to see do they produce the goods. 

Boherdeal Clover is the one I would go for and he's in the midlands so not too far from you if you are around Tip?. Another very exciting one who will be on show today at the open day is Portlaoise first Tuch - total trad breeding - really tops bloodlines and show jumping really well.

Yes we are all running to the warm blood horses....we're so desperate to get back on top in the jumping rankings and know that mixing the good jumping mare lines - Clover Hill, Sky Boy, Cruising with the top European blood works. If you want eventing what about Puissance - he's 90% TB, extremely respectable progeny record. Here is a link to the facebook breeders page, you need to be a member but maybe you can read it from the link.


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## Rollin (18 April 2015)

Coming late to the thread.  You probably know that 6 Shagya stallions are approved for the Trakehner Stud Book?


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## Zebe (25 April 2015)

sare_bear said:



			Does anyone know where Clover Brigade is standing as he would be another contender? Thanks
		
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I'm afraid he died, I have a 3 year old by him so nice I wanted to take my mare back but not to be &#128542;


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## Zebe (25 April 2015)

I would have toput mare 1 to something like Jackaroo-

Hi, I was thinking jackaroo for my mare this year but he's quite small, have you seen or know if his offspring are bigger?


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## sare_bear (25 April 2015)

Thanks all. 

Irish Gal will pm you. Like Portlaoise FT, great jump though not the best mover. 

Zebe - All the really nice stallions by Clover Hill that I like are deceased. Typical.

Right think I am looking at Creevagh Ferro for mare 1. Have seen some lovely stock by him in the UK, lovely temperaments, great movers and jumpers though some could be sharp to ride, but still amateur friendly. If anyone knows more about conformation, temperament etc please let me know.

Mare 2 - I think I am going to swallow the large stud fee and go for OBOS quality. Probably a bit much for her first foal, but he is commercial and produces both show jumpers and eventers. May end up with not the greatest shoulder, being the main downside. Do a lot of his stock have upright shoulders? And again an idea of temperament of his progeny would be great.

Thanks.


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