# Horse stabled permenantly!



## Caritas (14 May 2009)

As the title says, what are peoples opinions on a horse being happily kept in all day everyday due to previous injuries caused through being silly when turned out. I know a lot of people say that it is not natural to stable a horse but we as owners have domesticated them. My horse has had several injuries due to be turned out and if i turn him out again I feel this could be in detriment to his future and feel it may shorten his life expectancy. He is happy being stabled and surely with work, walker excercise etc he can still have a great quality of life. Opinions please without being judgemental, and if anyone knows of any other horses that live this way I would like to hear how they cope. Many thanks


----------



## piebaldsparkle (14 May 2009)

Plenty of horses live in 24/7, not how I would want to keep my horse, but if needs must.


----------



## ladyt25 (14 May 2009)

I think no matter how much we have domesticated animals I think they still deserve the chance to do what comes naturally. I don't believe we can wrap them up in cotton wool the same as we can't with children - you wouldn't keep a child locked in doors just because he/she kept injruiong themselves when they were outside!

You say you are concerned it may shorten it's life expectancy being turned out but in my opinion I don't think being shut in a box for the majority of its time is any sort of life at all anyway. When does it ever get the chance to truly stretch it's legs or have a good buck, gallop and cavort about?


----------



## Taffster (14 May 2009)

My horse goes out for short periods daily now hes at the producers he doesnt seem to mind at all and as you he gets ridden everyday. It isnt unheard of but is it not possible to turn out in menage or anything for a short period on his own?


----------



## Skhosu (14 May 2009)

No, sorry, that is to suit you and not your horse. Horses are not designed to be caged (which without the pretty name is what a stable is) If he is fit enough to be worked his is fit enough to be turned out,Walker and exercise do not compare. 
Why exactly are you wanting to keep him in? It's tempting to wrap them up in cotton wool but not practical or fair on the horse.


----------



## Tinkerbee (14 May 2009)

I wouldn't ever want a horse I had to keep in full time.

Cruel IMO.


----------



## Caritas (14 May 2009)

This is getting very abusive already and very judgemental, it is certainly not to suit ME!!
He is very difficult to turn out and has problems with his off hind leg, he spins on this when being turned out and has recently very badly damaged his tendon sheath, this is the second time in not so many months. I hate to see horse stuck in but I think we moreso give it a human atribute instead of thinking of the horses welfare. Its surely more unfair seeing a horse crippled lame everytime he goes out than being happy and still having a life!!


----------



## alsxx (14 May 2009)

Accidents happen and whilst it is always sad they cannot be prevented. I would certainly not keep something in to prevent it from possibly injuring itself, even if it was a loony tune.

You could get hit by a bus tomorrow, but that wont stop you crossing the road.


----------



## somethingorother (14 May 2009)

By future do you mean career? He could injure himself in a stable easily enough, as we all know they can always find something to cut half a leg off on etc. 

I don't think you can compare work and horse walker to being turned out. He has no freedom of movement at all, to run and buck and spin. I think it actually helps a horses natural balance and athleticism to be turned out. What injuries has he sustained? If he has tendon issues etc then i would be wary of how much work he can do, if it is cuts etc then i would check your field for sharp and dangerous objects. 

Sorry but i just don't think it's fair, even though i know a lot of horses 'cope'. Also i'm sure that breathing disorders, stomach ulcers and stress responses or 'vices' are more common in 'coping' stabled horses.


----------



## Kenzo (14 May 2009)

It all goes against what a horse is, they are a heard animal, every part of there body is designed to be out living in field as part of heard free to roam.
A domesticated horse should have the choice to be out with other horses or at least have the company of grazing animal.

However there is the odd exception I know, some horses don't like being out (strange I know) others are too dangerous to be turned out, be it to themselves or people. but I think you have to take every measure you can to prevent the horse from doing so, so they can lead a natural life as much as possible.


----------



## Rollin (14 May 2009)

I personally would never stable 24/7 I think it is cruel to contain an animal which has evolved to roam the steppes and plains, into a 12' square box, without social interaction or companionship.

You say your horse is happy with this and it is to avoid injury.  Would your horse be 'happier' if he had more freedom?  If you need to stop him doing silly things do you not have the option to give him a small paddock attached to his stable perhaps with temporary fencing?

As I said that is my personal management choice.


----------



## charlie55 (14 May 2009)

Yes i do know a bloke that keeps his horse in everyday, all day, and he is only ridden twice a week, and thats the only time he comes out of the stable!!! I hate it and think its very cruel... 

In your case, although i wouldnt keep mine in 24-7, i think its the owners choice, and as long as they are out doing things everyday, i dont think its cruel as such, just not natural and not something id want done to me to be honest. But at the end of the day, its your horse so only your choice x


----------



## alsxx (14 May 2009)

I know all about tendon sheath issues, my mare has had this for the last 10 months, and unfortunately they are the kind of niggly little thing that can flare up very easily. I certainly wouldn't choose to keep her in because of it. I have actually just turned her out at grass for a year off! She will either sort herself out, or she wont.


----------



## Taffster (14 May 2009)

We must not forget that most stallions are kept stabled 24/7 again before you all jump down my throat i did say most!
And these have more of a need to get out and do there own thing


----------



## somethingorother (14 May 2009)

I wrote my post whilst you were writing yours Kiasmom. So it is tendon problems, which work will not necessarily be any better for than turnout depending on what you do with them. Ok so he spins on his bad leg, i can understand that being a problem. Is assume he is bandaged accordingly for turnout. What i would say is, how long is he turned out at the moment? 

It can often be worse to only turn them out for an hour 'to avoid injury' as they go bonkers at the freedom and prat about. I know some horses like this who will cope better on 24 hour turnout, as they are usually calmer and not so excitable.


----------



## bubbaloonie (14 May 2009)

As much as I hate the idea of a horse being kept in all the time, my laminitic pony is kept in (albeit in a huuuuge stable, it's an old cattle pen) 23 hours a day. She manages fine and actually relishes the routine these days. She does love her limited time out though so maybe just that short period of freedom makes the difference. 

Whilst in Hong Kong I visited a friend's yard where all the horses stay inside 24/7 simply cos there is no grazing, despite great other facilities (it's where they had the XC part of the olympic eventing). As ex-racehorses they were all slightly bonkers and pretty wound up though.


----------



## Jo C (14 May 2009)

I have to stable mine 24/7 for long periods of time periodically, he has an allergy to grass and is also laminitic, he doesn't mind one little bit and is so much healthier as a result. Ideally of course I'd like to turn him out but realistically this just isn't possible all the time so he will spend 6 weeks or so stabled 24/7.  Shoot me down all you like, I know he is healthier for it.


----------



## RhiannonE (14 May 2009)

I personally wouldn't keep my horse stabled all the time but in the stable opposite my horse (we're in a barn) the two horses there go out for about an hour or two hours a day and only when the owner is around (whilst she mucks out etc for example). She has a field right by the stable and can grab them in if they go mad (which they rarely do actually). 
I know she has had horses die of colic and injuries out in the field and so doesn't want her two now getting injured. I personally don't agree with it but these two do seem to like their routine and actually will pine to come in after two hours.

The other competition horses on our yard (the majority of them that means!) go out for a few hours in the morning and come in at lunch and then are ridden in the afternoon and that suits them very well. Is there a way you could perhaps limit turnout but not stop it altogether?

x


----------



## 3253Wendy (14 May 2009)

Recently my horse has had a frightening amount of injuries in safe paddocks so understand the wish to wrap up with cotton wool, however as much as she appears to be settled when bandaged and on box rest due to injury, she does seem to become unsettled when well again and I would be worried about creating further problems such as colic, ulcers etc by keeping her in.   Hope you find a solution  
	
	
		
		
	


	




  And I am sure you have your horses best interests at heart.


----------



## connie1288 (14 May 2009)

I have with work kept my horse in 24/7, she adjusted very easily and as you say they will be getting regular exercise.
I personally would not have any problems with it, if you feel it is the best for your horse.
It can be very nerve racking turning out your precious loon!!


----------



## little_flea (14 May 2009)

This discussion and similar ones has been had many a time on here - HHO users overall appear to object very strongy to horses not being turned out - however, there are lots of horses that don't go out much, and certainly in some areas, no turnout during the winter season is pretty standard. I don't believe all those horses are the victims of cruelty.

I certainly prefer my horse to be out as much as possible, but ultimately I have chosen to have a horse for my own enjoyment - as many of us do - it is my hobby and though it is our job as owners to ensure our horses are as happy as possible I think there are a lot of aspects of horse ownership and riding that could be seen as less than desirable (do horses enjoy being ridden for example - or are they just conditioned to it). Obviously we all strive to strike a balance between the health/cost/safety/ of ourselves and our animals, but sometimes daily turnout is just not possible. I think that in those cases you just have to make the best of the situation - make sure the horse has his stable in an interesting place where he can look at stuff, break up the day as much as possible, spend more time grooming, grazing in hand etc.

As you all know, a lot of competition horses for example don't get turned out and still perform very well and seem like happy animals - they have been bred and conditioned for a purpose, and I don't think you can generalise so much as to say that a horse who does not get turned out necessarily is unhappy or has a bad life.


----------



## golddustsara (14 May 2009)

Perhaps he is a bit mad when turned out as he doesn't get turned out enough. Why not turn him out 24/7 and then he won't hoon around the field. My boy is out 365 days a year (rugged in winter) and has turned so placid its unbelievable. I just think being in 24/7 makes a horse miserable and they need t/o for physical and mental wellbeing.


----------



## Persephone (14 May 2009)

I had my mare PTS because due to recurrent uncontrollable laminitis (cushings induced) she could not even manage three hours a day at grass. She was 8 years old and I believe she would have had a pretty sorry existence had I kept her.


----------



## Zorrosmum (14 May 2009)

I have a stallion and whilst in the summer he is out most of the day he will not stay out in winter be it 10 mins or an hour he just charges around until you get him in again so whilst i have tried on several occasions to keep him out for few hours i felt that it was not worth the risk to leave him out and to be honest he is happier in in the winter so pretty much all winter hes in 24/7 obviously with plenty of exercise and toys to play with but it hasnt done him any harm


----------



## somethingorother (14 May 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
This discussion and similar ones has been had many a time on here - HHO users overall appear to object very strongy to horses not being turned out - however, there are lots of horses that don't go out much, and certainly in some areas, no turnout during the winter season is pretty standard. I don't believe all those horses are the victims of cruelty.

I certainly prefer my horse to be out as much as possible, but ultimately I have chosen to have a horse for my own enjoyment - as many of us do - it is my hobby and though it is our job as owners to ensure our horses are as happy as possible I think there are a lot of aspects of horse ownership and riding that could be seen as less than desirable (do horses enjoy being ridden for example - or are they just conditioned to it). Obviously we all strive to strike a balance between the health/cost/safety/ of ourselves and our animals, but sometimes daily turnout is just not possible. I think that in those cases you just have to make the best of the situation - make sure the horse has his stable in an interesting place where he can look at stuff, break up the day as much as possible, spend more time grooming, grazing in hand etc.

As you all know, a lot of competition horses for example don't get turned out and still perform very well and seem like happy animals - they have been bred and conditioned for a purpose, and I don't think you can generalise so much as to say that a horse who does not get turned out necessarily is unhappy or has a bad life. 

[/ QUOTE ]

I assume that was QR and not aimed at me? (i do it too though)

I don't think it is cruel to keep any horse kept in. I just think generally better for them to be out. Competition horses are actually most at risk of ulcers and other problems due to their high stress lifestyle and i imagine it often takes a lot to balance that out with all sorts of supplements.  If everything else has been tried and there is no way to keep your horse happy on turnout then stabling is the only possibility left. But i think it should be a last resort. They are domesticated but are still horses with a need to have time to let off steam or even just chill and mooch about. 

I know of quite a few people who insist their horses are happy stabled full time. Any outsider looking at the horse minus 'mums' rose tainted glasses can see they are not as happy as they could be. Head bobbing, cribbing, box walking, looking dejected, weaving, biting, putting ears back and becoming grumpy 'for no reason' to name but a few.


----------



## Chico Mio (14 May 2009)

My horse lived for seven years boxed 24/7, then moved into a pen 7m x 10m which he shared with one other. He's now in or out depending on the weather but is quite happy in a stable all day as long as he is aware of other horses nearby.  For him it's being alone that causes the most stress.  Do what is best for you and him.


----------



## Dobby (14 May 2009)

Horses should not be kept in 24/7. What kind of life is that for them just because their owner doesn't want them to injure themselves? They can get injured inside the stable or when our riding. I would never keep a horse in all the time, it's verging on cruelty.

How about the OP thinks about what she would do if she wasn't allowed to leave her bedroom - ever?


----------



## spotty_pony (14 May 2009)

I think it would be possible but it would really depend on your horse's personality as to whether he would be happy or not. He may be ok at the moment but after staying in for a couple of months he could  become bored, depressed and even aggressive. I know a few horses who have obviously spent a lot of time in their stables in the past and are now very dominant and sometimes agressive towards people whilst they are stabled, but perfectly happy in the field. I certainly would never consider stabling a horse 24/7 as I beleive they should be allowed to live naturally for at least part of the time. 

Another option could be to turn your horse out on his own so that he doesn't get kicked by another horse, etc. How did your horse injure himself? Turnout socks can help to protect legs and prevent injury. 

Hope this


----------



## Spyda (14 May 2009)

What if you can't catch your horse, kept outside? One that is really, _really_ bloody minded about it, even kept in a small paddock? Just wondering....


----------



## Amymay (14 May 2009)

It's not how I would wish to keep a horse.  And would look for ways in which he can be kept safe and injury free on individual turnout.


----------



## Amymay (14 May 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
What if you can't catch your horse, kept outside? One that is really, _really_ bloody minded about it, even kept in a small paddock? Just wondering.... 

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd dart it


----------



## bhpride (14 May 2009)

I would never in a million years keep a horse in 24/7 unless it was absolutely necessary (box rest due to injury for example)

I can honestly say I'd rather Tia was risking injury behaving naturally socialising in a field than being cooped up in a stable getting depressed. And if she did ever injure herself and became unrideable I'd always keep but her but I understand not everyones circumstances would allow this + if a horse is very valueable I can understand the need to keep a horse injury free. 

But ultimately a horse is a horse and whatever there value and job is of no concern to them, only to us. Also excessive stabling is the cause of vices such as weaving, crib biting etc so no one can say it doesn't go without harming and depressing some horses. I say some because I think some horses can cope ok if well managed and I suppose it can be dependent on their personality as will, the ones that don't cope are the ones developing vices as a way of coping, kicking the door to bits and chewing everything in sight - or atleast that's what I saw at a yard with very limited turnout - mangled stables lol with chewed wood and broken doors from kicking.


----------



## Skhosu (14 May 2009)

not abusive, opinions. Abusive would certainly not be whats happening.
Why not turn out 24/7 then, avoids having a very excited horse to turn out.
Yes it is to suit you, and imo it is cruel. Call that judgemental if you will but horses given the choice will not stand in a stable for any length of time, when they have equal oppurtunity to go to a larger area(except in very adverse weather)
I do own accident prone competition horses so I know fine rightly the stresses turnout involves on humans. Turnout is also healthier for the horse re: ventilation and avoiding leg issues such as lymphangitis.


----------



## connie1288 (14 May 2009)

Where does the depression come from??
My mare loved it, there was always someone to talk to or something going on, in the field she field walks, but wont box walk!
Many Stallions dont get turn out as it is not practical on competition yards.
They are very adjustable animals.


----------



## Skhosu (14 May 2009)

little_flea-an awful lot of ompetition horses have gastric ulcers too..and vices..Racehorses being the prime example of animals that are worked hard and kept in..


----------



## somethingorother (14 May 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
What if you can't catch your horse, kept outside? One that is really, _really_ bloody minded about it, even kept in a small paddock? Just wondering.... 

[/ QUOTE ]

This would have been caused by inappropriate management at some point in the horses life, and locking it in a stable for convenience sake is only reinforcing that mismanagement. The way to deal with a horse that wont be caught, it a heck of a lot of time and patience. There are enough people who get practically wild ponies off dartmoor etc from the sales and then manage to get them perfectly accustomed to being caught.


----------



## Bossanova (14 May 2009)

I would explore all options for turnout but I know lots of horses who live in full time very happily. It's nice to lead them out to grass whenever possible


----------



## TicTac (14 May 2009)

Before I start, this is not meant to be a pop at you and why you keep your horse stabled, just a few suggestions.

How long have you had your horse and has he ever been used to turnout before you?

Like many others, I personally couldn't keep a horse stabled 24/7 for whatever reason. It's not natural or fair on the horse, but there are plenty who survive happily stabled with a varied routine. Having said that, even hard working horses like that of the Queen's do get an annual holiday out at grass.

Does he go nut's when turned out because he's never been used to it? I think you would find that once his injuries have healed and you get him used to going out in a paddock, he wouldn't go so wild every time he was turned out. Even if he went out on his own, in a small paddock with plenty of grass and just for a few hours, his quality of life would be better for him.

You would probably have to introduce him to turnout gradually, depending on his reactions.


----------



## Spyda (14 May 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What if you can't catch your horse, kept outside? One that is really, _really_ bloody minded about it, even kept in a small paddock? Just wondering.... 

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd dart it 
	
	
		
		
	


	





[/ QUOTE ]

Mmmmm... tempting. _Really, really_ tempting.
So, where do I get one. A dart gun, that is?


----------



## little_flea (14 May 2009)

Shkosu - yes, I agree, they do. To play devils advocate though - should different rules apply when it comes to keeping "working" horse (ie pro racer, SJ, breeding stallion etc) who actually need to make a living for their owner, compared to hobby horses (like most of ours, I'm sure)? The race horse industry is particularly hard on the animals - yet it is not illegal...

It comes back to the moral and philosophical issue of humans keeping animals really. To me the issue is similar to that of freerange animals for meat/eggs.


----------



## Skhosu (14 May 2009)

No. I don't believe they should. At the end of the day all those 'pro ' horses are doing it really for owner enjoyment, and plenty of top yards manage to give horses an hour or two out a day. I only eat free range too .


----------



## kerilli (14 May 2009)

I prefer them to be out as much as possible, but as long as he's out at least twice a day and not going nutty with the confinement, and has company around him when he's in, i think it's okay.
if i have one about to go to a big competition that i'm worried might do itself an injury, i make a very small pen with electric (sometimes not much bigger than a stable) with really lush grass in, and give them time in there. usually they're so pleased to see the grass that they just go into lawnmower mode.
however, i can understand you not wanting to risk him injuring himself again. i think i'd let him graze in hand every day if at all possible though, as well as going on walker and being ridden.


----------



## Donkeymad (14 May 2009)

QR

Does stabling 24/7 not contravene the five freedoms?

"Freedom to express normal behaviour" 

How can a horse express normal behaviour when it is stabled?


----------



## Moggy in Manolos (14 May 2009)

I prefer a horse to live out all year round personally, though this is not always possible, i have a chronic laminitic so i do know.

She gets a very small paddock just now, i much prefer her to be out then stuck inside.
If i had to keep her in, then i would, but only if needs must, my mare is a star and will adjust to any new routine with ease, but i know she needs to get out and have a good buck and a fart around the field, just as we all need to let off steam


----------



## Ziggy_ (14 May 2009)

I bought my mare from a yard where there was no turnout and kept her there as a livery for six months. I also worked at the yard so could watch the horses all day. Some seemed to cope, some didn't. One was a dreadful weaver, a few got agressive and snapped at people/other horses over the door, some head nodded/bobbed, one ate her entire stable door and would grind his teeth on the door for hours. In contrast mine seemed to cope very well; she had no vices, was calm in the stable and seemed happy to stand around and eat all day. She was a menace to handle and to ride, but thats another story!

Eventually I moved her to a place where she would live out over the summer, and be stabled overnight in winter. Immediately I noticed she was happier out than in, and became easier to handle as the other horses helped to keep her in line. However it wasn't until it was time to bring the horses in overnight for the winter that I realised how much of a toll her previous confinement had taken on her mentally.

She can no longer cope with being stabled. She doesn't settle in the stable, she stresses, sweats up and loses her appetite. She has to be the last one in and the first one out, and the first few nights she stood in the stable shaking. She did slowly calm down but she never truely settled and came out of this winter looking awful. It could be coincidence but I now think that being shut in a stable long term has done her lasting damage mentally. Like a horse that has been over jumped and eventually just said 'no more', she can't tolerate being stabled any more.

I will never keep a horse like that again, whether they seem to cope at the time or not. Some of the other replies on this thread will hopefully give you some other options, whether its individual turnout, grazing in hand, or whatever, but please don't keep him stabled for the rest of his life.


----------



## Caritas (14 May 2009)

Yes i agree alsxx but I can guarantee that when my horse is turned out again, he will spin on that leg and it will be the first day or within a few weeks before he injures himself.


----------



## kerilli (14 May 2009)

Ziggy_ , i had a mare who was kept at full livery for a winter with no turnout, in an internal stable facing a wall, she seemed to cope fine too at the time, but ever after was very claustrophobic, couldn't wait to get out, would stand at the stable door 'begging' to be let out and drag me to the field, and relax the moment she got outside. 
however, with a horse like Kaismom's, i'd probably try to protect it, but i'd make sure the stable was big with a nice view of lots going on, views of other horses, etc etc.


----------



## Spyda (14 May 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What if you can't catch your horse, kept outside? One that is really, _really_ bloody minded about it, even kept in a small paddock? Just wondering.... 

[/ QUOTE ]

This would have been caused by inappropriate management at some point in the horses life, and locking it in a stable for convenience sake is only reinforcing that mismanagement. The way to deal with a horse that wont be caught, it a heck of a lot of time and patience. There are enough people who get practically wild ponies off dartmoor etc from the sales and then manage to get them perfectly accustomed to being caught. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, and plenty that can't!


----------



## somethingorother (14 May 2009)

But what i'm trying to say is if you approach it in the right way, which is different for different horses, it can be done. Locking them in a stable will only make it worse, as posters since have pointed out. They may seem fine at the time but then it become apparent later on that they weren't happy. A good saying i think is that you can't fail if you don't give up. There is no such thing as a horse that can't be caught, only one that needs more time or a different approach. 

Either way i know most people will just look for conformation of what they want to hear but at least a LOT of useful information has come up in this thread on the damages of permanent stabling and many suggestions to alternatives. It's up to the OP now to make an informed decision and take the responsibility of whatever that decision is.


----------



## Tiffany (14 May 2009)

Your horse probably gets injured because he's not going out on a regular basis. I think when horses go out, even for short periods on a daily/regular basis they calm down and it just becomes part of their routine. Think about it if your were grounded 24/7 for a few weeks I'm sure you would behave differently when you did finally go out - wouldn't you? I know I would


----------



## SO1 (14 May 2009)

How old is your horse has he always been like this or was there a time before his first injury where he had turn out without a problem.

I presume he must have had some turnout as a youngster and managed to be ok. Maybe it is a case of not being at the right sort of yard - is he turned out on his own or with others. Maybe he could be turned out with a quiet companion like a shetland which would be less exciting for him. Does his field have plenty of grass? Perhaps if you turned him out when he was hungry he would settle and eat. Normally if a horse has been on box rest for a long time when you do start to turnout for the first time you sedate them a little so they do not get over excited and overdo it.

I think it is a shame especially on a lovely sunny day if your horse does not get a chance to be outside and relax with other horses. 

My pony refuses to stable so being out is very important to him so I have no option but to keep him out 24/7. Is your horse truely happy being in - he may seem fine when you are with him as he has company and is occupied but what is he like when you are gone.

If you really don't want to turn him out then I would least try and take him out for a couple of hours to hand graze so he can get some grass.


----------



## Ezme (15 May 2009)

QR, A riding school I know has v limited turnout over winter which I think is saved for the liveries so the school horses are turned out in a opensided barn with their herd group for at least a few hours a day. The horses enjoy the socilisation, they get some fresh air, can walkabout without being about to totally loon. Perhaps this could be a option, section off part of a barn, perhaps with a friend.

I don't like horses being in excessivly but I accept it as a nesscerary evil or various horses


----------



## henryhorn (15 May 2009)

I have to say I can't understand why you feel you have to stable him permanently, with boots/bandages and a properly fenced paddock he should be able to go out and have some freedom.
Can you imagine being a horse and never feeling the sun on your back, the wind in your mane etc when lying down in sweet grass?
I can only speak for the way our horses live here, they all get turnout even the stallion, and whenever any have to go away to yards for comps or training they invariably get no turnout or very little. Upon their return you can see by the way they behave when out the first time how pleased they are, their body language is so obviously delighted.
I'm afraid if youy want to keep your horse stabled and just exercised for your own convenience I feel it's incredibly selfish of you; they aren't made to live inside on their own but to integrate into small groups and have friends and a certain amount of freedom of choice, even if it's just which patch of grass to graze or lie on.
I wish I could have written a nicer post suporting you but we keep horses here under varying conditions, from likely laminitics, retired horses , youngsters to fit comp horses, and their quality of life is the first thing we look at even above their competition success.
Try hard to put yourself in your horse's shoes, would you want his life?  
I'll tell you what, I'll lock you in your bathroom for 22 hours every day for a month, feed you of course and allow you out to the gym every day, and you can look out of the window when you like too.. 
Still think it's a fair life? 
No, I guessed perhaps you wouldn't fancy it...


----------



## amandaco2 (15 May 2009)

i think its unnatural and probably not very good for their muscles,tendons,hooves etc.
they are made to have their heads down grazing stretching their topline and walking foraging all day.
standing in a dusty(even the best hay/bedding will create dust) stable 24/7 is the exact opposite.
my older mare has been on box rest 3 times in her life and hated every moment.she was fine manners wise but once she was out the stable she was a nutter!
normally she is quite content in the stable on a normal routine of out in the day but if she is kept in she gets very stressed and tends to get sore muscles from pacing.

i would rather have them out as much as possible.
i would only keep in 24/7 for a medical reason, not due to convenience or worrying about injury.they are far more likely to be injured going out once in a blue moon and going completely nuts.
its their relaxation time.i know mine LOVE to graze.
i was at a yard once where the horses were kept in 24/7 beacuse they couldnt cut themselves(show horses). the YOs yearlings were so so silly it was unbelievable.she could hardy lead them and they would canter round their 12x10 stables.so then they had to wear leg protection in the stable!
im sure they would be much happier out in a 4 acre field blasting round and developing properly....


----------



## annret (15 May 2009)

I think that perhaps routine is as important, if not more so, than large amounts of turnout.

My yard has great facilities but limited turnout &amp; when I was fully in charge of my horse, I saw that she had several hours daily in spring/autumn/winter &amp; turnout overnight in summer and in during the day.

However, since i've been away, she's been turned out 3 times a week - this upset me massively at first - but as she has no stable vices, doesn't seem unhappy. She is very sweet to handle - moreso than when she had overnight turnout, actually - and has been very very well behaved recently which is a very nice thing to hear as I know she'd been naughty before I went back at easter.

Our other horse, the gelding, has been a sod, frankly, since he's moved yards - he's gone from 24 hour T/O (brought in on v cold nights) to mainly being stabled &amp; I don't trust him as far as I can throw him because he's just so big &amp; quite silly &amp; has very poor spatial awareness. In a way, it's been nice to illustrate that my girl is actually a poppet as she is much more innocent in her naughtiness than he is. 

As she's always glad to come in, I'm now much happier with this situation than I first envisaged &amp; would suggest that it's probably how she was kept in Germany.


----------



## daisybe33 (15 May 2009)

I think you know best. We had a mare on our yard that hated being out and ran up and down the fence from the minute you turned her out to the minute you brought her in and was always sound due to spinning back around at the end of the fence. She was turned out all day with other horses and only in at night, then she tried turning her out for short periods but she hated it and in the end was stabled, exercised evry day and stayed sound and quite happy so if it works for you and yours .......

Good luck x


----------



## Arabelle (15 May 2009)

Stables horses in general have shorter lives and are more prone to colic/ulcers etc.  Says it all really...

For me, the essentials for a horse are freedom to roam; companionship of other horses; water; food; shelter.  I think a horse would probably rank them in about that order of importance.
A


----------



## M_G (15 May 2009)

If the horse is not stressed by being in 24/7 not a problem..


----------



## misst (15 May 2009)

QR I know some people have very strong views on this but I do think each horse and each owner and each yard are individual.

Provided there is sufficient excercise/grazing in hand/horsewalker etc and the horse has lots of one on one attention it may be fine. 

Having had a TB that was a real self harmer even in a small paddock with individual turnout I have every sympathy with the OP. 

No real answer but I think sometimes people have quite extreme views that are totally inflexible. The OP is asking for opinion not saying this is what she will always do for ever.

Ideally all horses should have all day or 24 hour turnout 365 days per year but sometimes we have to compromise and it is how we manage this that makes the difference.


----------



## lexiedhb (15 May 2009)

QR- I personally would be looking at it from the other way and be thinking of ways to keep said horse OUT 24/7, if he's that exciteable about being turned out perhaps leaving him out would remove that excitement.

I also agree that ridden work, horse walker isnt really a substitute for the freedom that turn out gives horses, but I have also seen horses with little or no turn out seemingly happy!


----------



## trendybraincell (15 May 2009)

I appreciate that everyone is speaking from experience or simply voicing their concerns, but some posts seem a little judgemental, although they may not be intended that way.

I know OP, our horses are stabled next to each other. She is a very knowledgable individual, who puts herself out to ensure her horse is well looked after. I know it breaks her heart to see him in 24/7, which is why she probably posted on here, to see if there are more options that have not yet been explored.


----------



## lauraandjack (15 May 2009)

I think it's a case of what suits you, your horse and your circumstances.  Ok nobody really wants to keep their horse in 24/7 but there are plenty of livery yards that oblige people to do this for most of the winter (whether it suits their horse or not) to save the turnout being shredded for the summer.

To be honest, is slopping round in mud up to it's hocks in the peeing rain really what most horses want?  I know mine can't wait to come in in the winter, and if the weather is vile I have to drag him out to the field.  He's quite content to be inside (and is a Welsh D so is more than capable of coping with the weather!)

I know there is always this big argument about horses evolving to live on the plains and graze all day etc, but don't forget that there is a couple of thousand years of domestication removing them from wild horses.  No, their needs haven't entirely changed but I can't see your average warmblood surviving for long on the Russian steppes.  Man has changed the natural being of the horse to a certain extent and in return the horse requires care from man.


----------



## louisevictoria (15 May 2009)

When I was living abroad we didn't have much of a choice.
All of the horses, not just mine were kept in 24/7 because there wasn't the fields to turn them out in (I was in southern Italy). And as for them being turned out together - forget it, no way was anyone going to risk their precious competition horse getting kicked or injured.
Ther are ways of making it easier - I found that I had to work her nearly every day but always took her for a walk afterwards on a lunge line so she could go and have a nibble of what little grass there was. 

Even now after nearly three years of being out in a field for most of the time she will still field walk up and down the fence line (doesn't matter if she has company or not). And unless she is in season and being a cowbag is always very happy to be brought in.

I think some people are being a little harsh and judgmental  on the OP here


----------



## Hippona (15 May 2009)

IMO...the more you keep 'em in...the madder they go when turned out.

My horse has had a fractured cannon bone amongst other field injuries. He loves to go out, hates being in....I turn him out because he is a horse, not a house cat and I have to realise that I cannot wrap him up in cotton wool. Sure...he gets dirty/wet/injured on occasion....but to keep him in would be cruel to him and only for my benefit.


----------



## Passtheshampoo (15 May 2009)

My three all live out 24/7 that suits both me and the horses and is my personal choice of management. Horses are often kept stabled abroad 24/7 and if they are happy with that then IMO there isn't a big problem. I would say do what is right for your horse's wellbeing both in mind and body. If your horse's character begins to change you know you'll have to reconsider his management set up.


----------



## Tinypony (15 May 2009)

I think that sometimes when people think horses are happy, they aren't.  There are lots of tell-tale signs, but often the main one is that the caring owner feels something isn't quite right.  They may be picking up on the fact that the horse is almost too calm, or sleeps too much. Whatever, I wonder if Kaismum has posted this because she feels in her bones that things aren't as right as they seem with her horse.
This is what I would consider, having re-habbed several horses to being turned out in the past.  Often horses that spin when let loose do it because they are over-excited about going out, maybe because the turnout they are used to isn't for as long as they need.  Or, because it has been unpredictable ie different days or times.  So I'd think about changing that pattern.  I would plan to turn out for as long as possible, and at the same time every day.  I would also try to work on the behaviour by the gate.  You do this by stopping to have some calm time with the horse when you enter the field, give him treats, rub him, talk to him, and offer a treat as you take the halter off.  If he's going out alone, as I suspect this horse is, then I'd probably plonk a bowl of food on the ground inside the gate, take the halter off as his head goes down, and walk away.  I'd aim to get him out with companions eventually though, they might play a bit, but generally it helps them be more settled long-term.
He might spin, all you can do is bandage him up and protect him as much as you can, it's a well established pattern and you can't break that overnight.  But, the less times you turn him out (ie leave him out), the less spinning he'll do, and the less het up he will get as he anticipates going out.
I know a lot of horses "cope" with being in 24/7, but we all know that it isn't the most healthy option for them, mentally or physically.


----------



## Flame_ (15 May 2009)

OP.

If I were you, I would keep the horse in for now. Letting the horse cope for a while if it will benefit in the long run is acceptable IMO. Slowly build up the work level as much as you can. Once you are up to decent cantering and jumping on his bad leg he should be strong enough for turnout and larking about on it, especially with support boots.

The field set up needs plenty of grass to keep him occupied, one friend who he settles with and he needs to spend plenty of hours out every day to avoid explosions . If he still re-injures after you've done all this he's just not a sound horse and I'd actually be looking at PTS. Like with the laminitic mentioned earlier, its not much of a life long term and it might be the kinder option.


----------



## JavaJaneW (15 May 2009)

IF I had no choice but to stable (for example, horse gets colic the minute it sees grass) then I would have to have the stable in a penned area so at least it could walk about, maybe an open barn or something.

But you can't wrap them up in cotton wool as has been said, I mean, you could easily be out riding, horse stumbles in a rabbit hole, breaks a leg..... it is just not possible to protect and certainly not fair, however domesticated we make them, to keep horses penned in for the whole of their life...
MY opinion of course.


----------



## ForeverBroke_ (15 May 2009)

OP not sure whether this would work at all, but could you maybe start walking him/ her out to grass in a small paddock, maybe on a lunge line etc and slowly giving them more and more room to wander from you (without them then being in the position to gallop off and be a sod etc etc) and then after they've got used to that perhaps try to discretley let him off into a small paddock?

Or maybe make a paddock in a field thats about the size of 2/3 stables so he can't bomb it around at first but can graze happily next to other horses etc and feel the sun on his back 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 You can always then extend it the quieter he gets x


----------



## AandK (15 May 2009)

i have an injury prone TB who up until the end of last year was stabled at night and out during the day. during the winter, TO was only a few hours a day, some days not at all if the fields/weather was bad.  horse is the sort to prat about in the field if bored, such as when not in proper work/not enough grass.
after 5 months of box rest last summer due to a suspensory injury, i decided it would be best for his ligament, and for him in general, to be out 24/7 and this is how he has been living since just before christmas and he loves it.  horse is a laid back person anyway (just a prat in field with other horses!) and was quite happy when on box rest, didn't go insane, had plenty of grazing and walker exercise.  but he is sooo much happier out all the time, still prats about a bit but no where near as bad..  the plan is to keep him like this permanently.  
	
	
		
		
	


	





my advice to OP would be perhaps to try 24/7 TO, give it a couple of months while the weather is good and see how it goes?  i know how frustrating it can be haiving an injury prone horse, esp if they are comp horses but i really think it is worth a try.


----------



## lensmith7 (15 May 2009)

I am going to be completely honest here, and say, if you had asked me thing question 2 months back, I'd have said, no they need turn out it's not natural keeping them in etc.

However, since Josie has badly damaged her suspensory ligament, and since had surgery, I now can empathise completely.

Josie loves going out, dont they all? But I know if she hurts her leg again, thats if it ever gets better, thats it for us.

I feel for you, and I do know what you're going through. I dont think unless you've been faced with this very hard choice it's fair to judge really x x


----------



## Cazzah (15 May 2009)

I posted on your thread in Vets section as I have had recent experience with an inflamed tendon sheath with my TB (who is also very accident prone!). He had three months box rest with a controlled exercise programme which has really built up his strength in his affected leg. Towards the end of the three months he was getting 30 minutes cantering daily as part of an hour- one and a half hours work in the school. The vet scanned him before we turned him out and felt that his leg had strengthened enough to cope with his enthusiasm with being out. He was given a full tube of sedalin on the morning he went out and this took the rest of the day to wear off. When I turned him out he was focused entirely on the grass!! 

I had my heart in my mouth all day but he was fine. The vet actually recommended leaving him out 24/7 for the next few weeks at least and he has now been out for 6 weeks. He's fine. The vet came yesterday for jabs and was amazed at his fantastic condition - he is thriving far more than he ever did in the stable. He's also more chilled. He has a buck as I let him out again after riding but that's it.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I do understand why you have posted asking for opinions and I can fully appreciate why you would want to protect him. However, I believe from personal experience that with patience and effective management most, if not all, horses thrive better outside. He is your horse and you must do what you think is personally right for him - but please explore as many options as possible to ensure his life is as 'equine' as it can be.


----------



## teddyt (15 May 2009)

I havnt read all the replies but this is my view:
Horses are designed to have continual gentle movement with the odd burst of speed to get away from a predator. For their digestive system they should eat little and often. So many things about stabling are bad for the horse: haynets/racks affect the back and teeth, confinement affects the musculoskeletal system and respiratory system. By keeping a horse in 24/7 you may feel like you are preventing injuries but sooner or later another problem will crop up because stabling is just wrong for the way a horses body should be managed. Not forgetting the brain too - horses need social interaction, they need to move, they need to eat for 16-18 hours a day and they need to be able to roll.
The more a horse is kept in the worse it generally gets when it does go out. It can be done, you just have to work out how to do it in the best way for your individual horse. This may involve sedation from the vet to start with, a quiet companion, a small paddock, an hour a day gradually building up and so on.

Exercise and a horse walker is really not a substitute for turnout. The musculoskeletal system will have problems with this regime.

Good luck OP, im sure you have very good intentions by thinking in 24/7 is the answer. Unfortunately i believe it will cause other physical and mental health issues.


----------



## kookymoose (15 May 2009)

Its different if the horse is laminitic tho he can't go out for his own good. I think it depends on the horse and the situation.


----------



## LankyDoodle (15 May 2009)

George - if he had to be stabled 24/7 I'd have him PTS on the spot. He is miserable in his stable. He gets anxious. He has a respiratory problem which has got worse lately. He would be so sad. I would not be that cruel.

Lanky - has sweet itch which he relieves by itching and is worse if in his stable. He is a big horse and most stables would restrict him hugely.  I would have him PTS on the spot.

I think there are very few circumstances where I would keep a horse alive, when that horse NEEDED to remain caged for the rest of its days.


----------



## LankyDoodle (15 May 2009)

kookymoose - a horse who's had laminitis would not have to be stabled FOREVER, just while they are sick!


----------



## Fizzimyst (15 May 2009)

QR

The pony has been kept in since last Sunday with me walking her in hand 30 minutes twice a day as she's only just arrived, still a bit nervous so I am not convinced I could catch her again if I had turned out straight away and I want to be there when I turn her out with the other two.

My horses go out every day come rain, wind or shine. They are only kept in if needed to be on boxrest.

They get very bored and arsey if I keep them in for long periods of time.

The pony has accepted being in this week, but once she gets in to the routine of being out more than in perhaps this will change.

I am more concerned when I have had my horses in and then turn them out that they are going to injure themselves going ballistic round the field than if they are out 24/7

They will come in through the day and out at night if it gets a very hot summer again as they have poor shelter and shade in their field, and if the fly bites get any worse then it'll be in through the day and out at night, but otherwise mine are out as much as possible, a good 14 hours a day.


----------



## rachel_s (15 May 2009)

A slightly different angle is to look at timing of turn out.  I once rode at stables where they had a similar issue in a horse who got injured on anything and everything.  
After yet another period of box rest, they turned out in the evening when there was a couple of hours of light but the horses were getting sleepy.  They used to wander him down the lane, grazing in hand, spend at least half an hour mooching around, and then let him off then.  He was less interested in being loopy and much more interested in grazing by that point. He stayed out overnight and was brought in by day - he had sheep and a donkey as company.  In the day time, he stayed in a large pen in a barn where he could wander around, banked with straw bales and where he had a view of everything going on.  After four months, they simply turned him out 24/7. 
Good luck


----------

