# Belgian Eventer Suspended by FEI for Abuse of Pony



## skydy (6 September 2019)

Pippa Cuckson article; https://horsesport.com/horse-news/eventer-suspended-nine-months-alleged-pony-abuse/
Poor pony. Such an awful experience for the child.


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## Velcrobum (6 September 2019)

I have to question why the mother did not just get off her horse and supervise what was happening to her daughter and her pony?? Sounds like there is a bit more to this that has been reported. I do not condone what he did by any means just somewhat surprised the mother left the area when he got on the pony.


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## be positive (6 September 2019)

It sounds as if he totally lost his temper and behaved completely inappropriately, there must have been a fair few people watching any of whom could have stepped in and stopped it but it seems they videoed it instead, I am not sure the actions of the onlookers is acceptable whoever the trainer is someone should have taken control of the situation earlier.


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## TPO (6 September 2019)

Having not seen the videos or photos we can't know for sure what happened but if this is the first time he's ever done anything like this, as he claims, it is a very extreme action. Based on the reported damage inflicted on the poor pony I am very doubtful that he is being truthful in his claim that this is the first time he's had a reaction like this. In turn I shudder to think what could possibly be happening behind closed doors... Hopefully this will encourage more people to speak up


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## Mule (6 September 2019)

What a d*ck. Some people shouldn't be let near animals. It must have been so traumatising for the child as well as her pony.

It's basic common sense to get off the horse if you're frustrated. No good comes of staying on. I think a big problem in the horse world is that people don't tend to shun abusers. They continue to be hired if they're successful at their job. The next generation then learn that violence is acceptable.

The 'show them who's boss' and 'not let the horse win' attitude can so easily lead to aggression.
Riding is training after all, use your brain instead of your emotions ðŸ™„

This is turning in to a rant but, I rode as a child then gave up for about 15 years. When I came back to it I was surprised how so many people blindly follow tradition when training. Even something as simple as clicker training is often considered with deep suspicion. 
In other types of animal training people don't venerate tradition. I can't imagine trainers in modern zoos/wildlife parks insisting the animals need to be shown who's the boss.


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## Mule (6 September 2019)

be positive said:



			It sounds as if he totally lost his temper and behaved completely inappropriately, there must have been a fair few people watching any of whom could have stepped in and stopped it but it seems they videoed it instead, I am not sure the actions of the onlookers is acceptable whoever the trainer is someone should have taken control of the situation earlier.
		
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I think often people are too shocked to do anything. There's also bystander apathy, not to mention this was a member of the national team. People may have been more likely to intervene if it was just another rider. At any rate most people are slow to challenge a person who's being violent due to fear for their own safety.


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## milliepops (6 September 2019)

mule said:



			I think often people are too shocked to do anything. There's also bystander apathy, not to mention this was a member of the national team. People may have been more likely to intervene if it was just another rider. At any rate most people are slow to challenge a person who's being violent due to fear for their own safety.
		
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just have to look at how people stood by and watched George Morris be openly abusive to people at his clinics. There are lots of reports of riders and spectators watching while he humiliated paying customers. 
You'd hope that someone would speak up when an animal is the victim but I agree it must seem difficult particularly if the participants were younger and it's someone they looked up to.  Horrible. At least he has accepted it was totally wrong.


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## Mule (6 September 2019)

milliepops said:



			just have to look at how people stood by and watched George Morris be openly abusive to people at his clinics. There are lots of reports of riders and spectators watching while he humiliated paying customers.
You'd hope that someone would speak up when an animal is the victim but I agree it must seem difficult particularly if the participants were younger and it's someone they looked up to.  Horrible. At least he has accepted it was totally wrong.
		
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Human behaviour is very interesting. I don't know if you've ever read any social psychology but it provides explanations for a lot of what seems like bizarre/ unethical human behaviour.


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## Courbette (6 September 2019)

Velcrobum said:



			I have to question why the mother did not just get off her horse and supervise what was happening to her daughter and her pony?? Sounds like there is a bit more to this that has been reported. I do not condone what he did by any means just somewhat surprised the mother left the area when he got on the pony.
		
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Easy to say but if you routinely attend clinics and are dealing with your own horse you wouldn't expect to come back to find your daughters pony abused


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## DabDab (6 September 2019)

Yikes, what a horrible sounding incident


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## Ambers Echo (6 September 2019)

Velcrobum said:



			I have to question why the mother did not just get off her horse and supervise what was happening to her daughter and her pony?? Sounds like there is a bit more to this that has been reported. I do not condone what he did by any means just somewhat surprised the mother left the area when he got on the pony.
		
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I don;t always supervise my kids. Especially if I am on Amber myself. And actually if things are going wrong I am more likely to walk away as otherwise they have a tendency to look to me when they need normally to be paying attention to the instructor. And I can sometimes interfere (non intentionally!) offering unwanted advice which is very irritating to coaches!

Obviously this is based on the assumption that trainers can be trusted to sort out issues appropriately and ethically. Sounds like he just completely lost the plot with the pony. Horrible.


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## honetpot (6 September 2019)

I have been in a similar situation, obviously not at that level. My daughter was having a lesson and the trainer got on, to supposedly show her how it was done. 
 I am normally no shrinking violet but I was so shocked with what was happening that I am ashamed to say I froze.
 I think the so called experts are then in a position they have to be seen to win, and not lose face, so their behaviour becomes more extreme and desperate. 
You never win with violence, the horse panics or shuts down. Ours just ran in to a corner and wouldnâ€™t move. They realised then there was no way they we going to win.

This person was supposed to be a very experienced rider of event horses, who in theory should know more than me. They never rode the horse again, I said the horse had to do well what ever he did and they got the message and I took over. Fortunately he had a very forgiving nature and when my daughter got on the next day he went like his normal self and walked in to the school with confidence.
 I have been looking after horses for over forty years and but I do not have qualification to my name. It have made me very suspicious of so called experts who maybe do well in one area but do not have rounded horse education or make them qualified to teach, or able to be objective about a  situation.
 If my daughter had just done what they had done, I would have wiped the floor with her, this persons supposed competence made me hold back, but I knew what she was doing was wrong. If had have been a PC instructor I would have taken them off. Thatâ€™s what probablely happened here and when they thought about it later they felt able to challenge the behaviour.


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## Velcrobum (6 September 2019)

Velcrobum said:



			I have to question why the mother did not just get off her horse and supervise what was happening to her daughter and her pony?? Sounds like there is a bit more to this that has been reported. I do not condone what he did by any means just somewhat surprised the mother left the area when he got on the pony.
		
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I will reply to myself to explain my comment. The trainer had already mounted the pony having taken the girls spurs and whip, the pony was continuing to "mis behave/ resist". If that had been me I would have dismounted and watched to see what he did to resolve the situation especially if he had trained the pair before and had never got on the pony before. As I said there is probably much much more than has been published in the article. I make my comments having attended on horseback many many clinics over plus 25years BE, BD, BS. I make a point of watching from the ground as well as there is much to be learnt even on foot.


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## alexomahony (10 September 2019)

I read this article and felt very sad for the pony and child, and realise that people can freeze out of shock. I've luckily never been in such an extreme situation myself, but to me, my horses are my family, and I'd hope that I would not freeze in such a situation - of course, you never know until it happens to you. Below are a couple of more minor examples, and I'm proud of how I responded.

I had a clinic once with a v well known event rider, and my pony wasn't acting his usual self - he being a bit of a prat, and he'd wouldn't load earlier, so I brought my other pony along (for Sky to travel with) and annoyingly, this meant that all Sky did was try and nap to his brother. In the clinic, we did some ditch jumping - Sky excels at this normally, but really, he shouldn't have found anything in the session hard as it was all very basic and he'd done it all before - his head just wasn't in it. Her helpers came at me with lunge whips to 'scare' him over the ditch.... I straight away asked them to back off, and they all put it down to me being a nervous rider (i'm not at all). I told them I'm not into forcing anything and it was quite clear that Sky's head just wasn't in the game that day. Luckily there was another attendee who I'd been in a few clinics with and she was shocked at his behavior and backed us up! I think I made the right decision and I'm glad I stood up to them. 

I also left another lesson with a top event rider when she told me that my horse (not Sky) 'should be more afraid of me, than the fences' - not how I work. 

Mind you, I can't stand to see animal abuse in any form... I see a child chase a pigeon and I tell them off - no matter how 'irrelevant' the species are marketed to be by society, it's still a living thing and very much has as much right to be there as us humans do. 

I'm very wary nowadays of training horses into a 'learned helplessness' - I read an article about it and it left a huge impact on me, and I'd really hate to think me horses have learnt it's just easier to be compliant and feel helpless. I like my horses to have personality and express it - I like them to have a buck and squeal when they're happy or excited or let me know when they want to be left alone. They're very well behaved, polite and happy but they are also cheeky, playful and appear to enjoy their lives. 

Sorry to ramble there! Just got on one and now I don't even think my answer is relevant to this thread haha, sorry for that!


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