# Wits end with anorexic horse, ideas please.



## ycbm (11 May 2017)

This is a horse who always stops eating in summer, but this year is worse than usual.  This is a matter of life and death, not just a few minerals to prevent me having to put shoes on him. He needs vitamin E and alcar to keep him on his feet at all.

So far I have tried:

bran
Oats
Linseed
Nuts
Sugar beet
Pink mash
Apple juice
Orange juice
Grated carrot
Grated apple
Fenugreek
Mint

His favourites are bran and linseed.

Some of these things will work for a day or three but not longer.

I have tried hand feeding him, including shoving it in the bit gap, which he is now refusing.

The most successful recently was giving him one handful and no more till that was gone. That's now failed.

I've split out the vitamin E and alcar which are essential and removed the nasty tasting copper, zinc and magnesium, but he still won't have it. There is too much alcar and vitamin E to hide in anything like an apple. 

I had to leave him in on his own all last night with nothing but his bucket feed to force him to take the first stuff he's eaten in 48 hours.

He's in again now instead of in the barn with his haylage, but ignoring the bucket on his door. He will only eat from a door bucket, not from the floor.

If he doesn't die anyway, I'm going to rip his bloody head off if I don't find a way to feed him.

Ideas please!


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## criso (11 May 2017)

Not the cheapest option but the turning point for my fussy one was Agrobs Musli


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## milliepops (11 May 2017)

Mine are big big fans of soaked grass nuts, they are a great carrier for all sorts and quite strongly scented.  Does he like grazing when he's out?

And Saracen Re Leve is weird but apparenlty nice smelling and appears tasty enough to even get Millie the highly suspicious fuss pot to eat bute... also got Kira onto the lorry when she was in her absolute refusal to load period.

if you're prepared to go for the commercial feeds option I bet most manufacturers would send out samples for you to try... if he is one that likes novelty then having lots of different ones to try could be a way forward.... :wink3:


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## KHippo (11 May 2017)

Saracen Re Leve is the only thing mine will eat when the grass is tasty. Even though I think it smells of sick


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## Pinkvboots (11 May 2017)

Can't you syringe it or am I being really dim! I have no idea what form the supplements are ?


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## Morgan123 (11 May 2017)

Really feel for you, I know how you feel - my oldie does this sometimes and it's horrible.

Have you looked at Equidgel? It's an entire feed which goes in the water, really high in fibre and vitamins etc - can be used in veterinary hospitals and things. They literally just drink it. So I guess if you needed to you could provide it in place of water? The lady who runs their company is super friendly and v happy to talk and interested in difficult cases like that, so I'm sure would be happy to help and give you some samples. I've been surprised at how much they like it.

Molasses isn't on your list, have you tried that? Or alfalfa nuts and as someone said earlier grass nuts?? Both soakable. Let us know how you get on, good luck!


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## Morgan123 (11 May 2017)

Oh or marmite?! some like marmite....


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## Ceriann (11 May 2017)

When I couldn't get mine to eat her ulcer related supplements and meds (turned her nose up at everything), the only thing she would eat was soaked hay cobs (thunderbrooks).  I use them for all fine now as they can be used as a mash or unsoaked in chaff I'r as treats.  They love them and not full of sugar.


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## chaps89 (11 May 2017)

I know you say you give too much alcar for putting in an apple but would either mixing it into a paste (if it isn't already a liquid, sorry I don't know much about it) and syringing it down him be an option to get it into him? Alternatively, we used to give honey/marmite/treacle/marmalade sandwiches to a horse who wouldn't take meds, could you put it into a sandwich? Then he could have a seperate bucket feed just for the sake of getting calories into him. 

I know molasses are usually a no go but I might be tempted to try a glug of molasses in the feed if separating the meds out entirely isn't an option (I guess it comes down to whether the harm of a sandwich or a small amount of molasses is outweighed by him getting the supplements/meds he needs)

From a feed perspective, have you tried grass chaff/nuts? Do you have any horsey friends/kind hho-ers nearby who can let you borrow some of their feeds to try- I'm wondering if some sort of mix (whilst nutritionally not desirable but again going with whether it would be outweighed by the benefit of getting the supplements) Or a mash like fast fibre or veteran vitality might help? Saracens releve is relatively low in sugar and starch which I think you need for pssm (again, knowledge not that great so apologies if not!) But it's the only thing my usually non fussy mare will eat her ulcer supplements with so palatable too.
(Happy to post you up a good bags worth of releve if you wanted to try it without committing to a full bag but need more than the tiny sample the feed company would send if it helps)

Randomly, and possibly really thinking outside of the box, I presume having another horse nearby when he eats doesn't help? (Whether he then eats as he's worried his mate will pinch it or if he feels safer to eat it if a friend is nearby)

Hope you get to the bottom of things.


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## Nugget La Poneh (11 May 2017)

Third soaked grass nuts, although the best ones I've found for disguising (or ones that Nugz will deign to eat when he's being fussy, albeit not to the extreme of yours) is by Emerald green Feeds (be aware than one of their pellets is 50% alfalfa I think).

Or (as I don't think you're too far from me) I could arrange for a zippy bag of Thunderbrooks muesli to try?


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## ihatework (11 May 2017)

When my old boy refused virtually everything the one thing he did eat was GWF fibregest no starch. It can either be fed dry (small pellets) or mash

And I got meds into him using mushed baby food pouches decanted into gastroguard syringes


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## milliepops (11 May 2017)

I also feed emerald green and my girls find them the yummiest - the grass pellets are just that, they do make alfalfa pellets as well.  The grass chaff they make is also apparently way nicer than graze-on but I have to get it delivered as my local shop only sells the nuts :lol:


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## JillA (11 May 2017)

Is he getting grass, and what's his condition score? Does he need feed as a supplement carrier only, or to keep his condition. What does your vet say, is there something metabolic or with his GIT going on?


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## cobgoblin (11 May 2017)

Rowan and Barbary red mash extra might do the trick.


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## smja (11 May 2017)

I've used fibrebeet to get a fussy horse to eat before, that worked better than expected!


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## Char0901 (11 May 2017)

My horse is very fussy, partly I think due to the fact we have rich, yummy haylage so he'd rather eat that!
I tried all sorts to get mine to eat his feeds (for some suppliments and calmer etc) tried expensive stuff, the lot. He really didn't think anything of any of the grass pellet feed.
Turns out he's actually quite easily pleased, and he now goes crazy for his scoop of Happy Hoof. Cheap and cheerful and he will eat anything that's in it!
Another thing that helped mine was Justamint by Simple Systems. It's 100% pure, finely cut herbal spearmint. It has a really strong smell (and taste I'm guessing!) You can feed as much as you need to to get them to eat their feeds. It has been specifically advertised as a feed appetiser.

Hope something helps. They like to worry us.


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## Hexx (11 May 2017)

What about Fastfibre - looks and smells yuk - but the horses seem to love it.  I haven't seen one yet that doesn't wolf it down.


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## SEL (11 May 2017)

Alcar tastes vile - will he eat the vitamin E in his normal feed?

One of the Rowan and barbarry mashes is designed for PSSM horses. I'm not a fan of mixes due to Shiloh's sensitivity, but both horses gobbled it up when they tried it and I offloaded the bag onto the owner of a very fussy eater. I bet you could hide Alcar in a small amount of that (for a week at least!)


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## Blanche (11 May 2017)

I have used Balanced Horse Feeds Show Mix with great success with fussy eaters in the past but I've had great success with bran which your horse doesn't like, so who knows! lol

http://balancedhorsefeeds.co.uk/products/specialist-feeds/show-mix/


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## Louby (11 May 2017)

My new young horse didnt seem to know what a bucket feed was, wasnt interested at all, tried a few different feeds then  I bought some Baileys Fibre Nuggets and she loves them!  She was nervy at first so the bucket feed was purely a treat to come in to.


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## hopscotch bandit (11 May 2017)

liquorice which has had boiling water poured over it so it has melted and been allowed to cool. Or the same principal with polos or strong mints.always worked with my horses.


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## meesha (11 May 2017)

dont know what your grass is like but if not great it might be cheaper to rent some land with very good grass and stick him on it with a friend or even walk the eejit in hand to let him eat the verges - not a practical solution as you would have to spend hours each day walking the twit.


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## Bav (11 May 2017)

Sorry if it's already been said. Instant custard was the only thing that worked to get my old fussy horse eating his feed when he had to have antibiotics etc.


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## Merlod (11 May 2017)

My Shetland is like this in the summer, insulin resistant so he has to come in during the day and be muzzled overnight. He's already pretty trim due to his very restricted diet and he will just refuse to eat when he is in during the day for pining to go out! 

Currently I am feeding him a teeny breakfast of speedibeet mixed with linseed and happy hoof. I give him a fresh slice of hay ever day, he only picks at it but if I leave him the same slice he didn't eat from the day before then he won't touch it! I also leave a small bucket of topchop lite as a hay alternative and he will pick at that a bit too. He then gets an evening feed which is the same as the above but includes his vit &min powder and is a bit bigger. I tie him up outside next to my piggy sec D so they can eat together, sec D always finishes first and looms over Shetland which seems to make Shetland eat! Muzzle on and then back out.

Is your horse turned out, could you find somewhere for him with very good grass?


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## Regandal (11 May 2017)

Copra will tempt one of mine to eat nasties. I had to double the amount he gets in order to get antibiotics down him.


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## Rollin (11 May 2017)

I don't know if this applies to horses but I had a Burmese Cat almost die, when he suddenly became anorexic.  The cause was Potassium Deficiency which is not unknown in Burmese cats.  Has your vet done a blood test?


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## starfish8 (11 May 2017)

Coolstance?  Made of coconut shells and smells delicious! I would definitely eat it if I were a horse.


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## SEL (11 May 2017)

http://www.rowenbarbary.co.uk/product/soft-n-soak-solution-mash/

I think this is the one for PSSM horses - low NSC. Pretty sure you could hide Alcar in it. No idea if they do samples, but begging might get you some!


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## little_critter (11 May 2017)

hopscotch bandit said:



			liquorice which has had boiling water poured over it so it has melted and been allowed to cool. Or the same principal with polos or strong mints.always worked with my horses.
		
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Or burdock, I think one of the herbal cough liquids has liqourice and / or burdock in it and my pony loves it.


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## paddy555 (11 May 2017)

I would imagine the alcar will dissolve in water and be easy enough to syringe in. I feed 10000 iu vit e (equimins oil) in a bread sandwich. If he doesn't like bread try something else like cake, currant bun, malt loaf. Spend a few days pampering him along with the others with tasty household treats. Once someone likes something the rest will  get jealous. The PPID gets his prascend in a small handful (by hand) of his copra/soaked alfalfa nuts feed.


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## Annagain (11 May 2017)

KHippo said:



			Saracen Re Leve is the only thing mine will eat when the grass is tasty. Even though I think it smells of sick
		
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It has added blackcurrant flavour (I presume to encourage them to eat it as it's sugar free) so maybe Ribena would be worth a try rather than buying a bag of Re-Leve? 

I had trouble getting antibiotics down mine last summer. Baby food worked fairly well (for a few days at least!) Pear was the most successful but banana and apple were also acceptable to him. Everything we tried would work for a few days then he'd get wise to it. In the end, the smallest amount possible of Re-leve smothered in molasses was the only way - he wouldn't eat anything vaguely damp he'd got so suspicious of it! I'm guessing you'd rather avoid sugar but maybe it's the lesser of two evils at the moment?


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## ycbm (11 May 2017)

I forgot these:

Alfalfa nuts - he thinks it's evil
Grass nuts - just as evil
Timothy chop - meh.
Straw and alfalfa chop - if you must.
Molasses - pah!



Thanks for all the suggestions.  Has anyone got any copra they could let me buy a kilo of?  Buxton/Macclesfield way to save postage, or meet at Chatsworth Saturday?

I can't syringe the alcar, he will get wise to that in a couple of days and I'll never be able to worm him again. He's not interested in any kind of titbits. The others always end up with his share.

 I can, if necessary, stick the vitamin e to his lips/teeth/gums and that will be my last resort if he hasn't eaten by the time I go to bed.

I'll probably try what I did with my mini when she wouldn't eat bute, and mix both the alcar and the vitE in Golden syrup and stick it to his mouth. Now I'm annoyed that I didn't by Golden syrup when I was out earlier : (


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## Nugget La Poneh (11 May 2017)

Melted carob/horse chocolate?


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## ycbm (11 May 2017)

Rollin said:



			I don't know if this applies to horses but I had a Burmese Cat almost die, when he suddenly became anorexic.  The cause was Potassium Deficiency which is not unknown in Burmese cats.  Has your vet done a blood test?
		
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Low potassium is fairly unlikely in a horse on spring grass, but it's a good thought. 


He's out 15 ish hours a day on a big area of mixed grazing and he's a perfect three condition score. He would eat haylage if in during the day, just not a bucket feed of the same stuff he eats happily, if slowly, all winter.

He is driving.     .            me.          .       mad.


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## Morgan123 (11 May 2017)

Where are you based? I have some copra you can try.


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## Christmas Crumpet (11 May 2017)

I feed my PSSM horse Copra, a tiny bit of speedibeet, Alpha A oil and linseed along with his Alcar, salt, Calmer/MgO and Vit E Oil and he gobbles the whole thing up. He is a fussy sod as well. But Copra he loves. Mix the sups in just before feeding.


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## ycbm (11 May 2017)

Between Macclesfield and Buxton and I'm going over to Chatsworth via Bakewell on Saturday. I'd be very grateful if I could buy a kilo or two.


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## Wagtail (11 May 2017)

Oh heck what a worry! I was going to suggest spearmint but then realised you'd tried it. One thing that I have found absolutely every horse I have tried it with loves is Alpha beet. They go mad for it. However, I stopped feeding it due to the mess and the fact that they all had sloppy green mouths. But worth a try if nothing else works. Good luck ycbm. They can be infuriating sometimes!


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## ester (11 May 2017)

agrobs is a million times better than any other grassy chaff for Frank but that doesn't seem to be a ubiquitous reaction, he goes nuts for pure feeds too (used to steal some of mates when I needed to get stuff down him). Copra seems to be good or bad depending on the horse, I've not tried it as he doesn't need it. Fingers crossed for you!

I know you said he doesn't do titbits is that everything? My last resort is to make a pear mash/sauce!


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## palo1 (11 May 2017)

Two of ours are like this and my horse is also v intolerant to all cereals, Alfa and beet...Yours doesn't do grass nuts or Alfa which is a shame but you might try syringing alcar followed by a really good treat so that he doesn't become awkward (well, more awkward!! ) That worked for an elderly cushings pony we had who refused any and all supps or meds voluntarily.  I was business like about it and she dealt with it well though I had to make a big fuss and make it a delish treat! (Satsumas, dates,malt loaf..)I know it's probably against the rules but...for our mare, we hide her vile zinc and copper in cool mix. Just a bit. We tried in desperation thinking that a very small amount of cool mix with minerals was better than no mineral supplement. We also add a little herbal chaff. Gets the job done. My gelding gets something a little different every day out of the v limited things he is prepared to even sniff. He doesn't get the full supplement dose and frequently leaves some in the summer but often he eats enough to keep me from being too ticked off to keep him!! Good luck.


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## scats (11 May 2017)

I feel your pain, I have a fussy mare who needs supplements.  She is about to go on metformin also, and I can already envisage the battle I'm going to have getting it in her.

I have fast fibre and Saracen shape-up Balancer if you would like me to send you some over to try?  The Saracen has cinnamon and most seem to like it.


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## Merrymoles (11 May 2017)

I can get anything down mind with Fibre Nugget porridge - ideally quite wet so he can make a real mess when he dribbles down my arm afterwards. I know you said he thinks grass pellets are pants but it might be worth trying different types.

Mine is currently not eating his tiny handful of chaff (which he has to get his salt down him) - he will eat a bare lipful and then graze beside the bucket in preference. But he needed bute this morning and guzzled it down in maybe quarter of scoop of soaked nuggets.


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## foxy1 (11 May 2017)

My fussy horse won't touch anything agrobs (amongst many other feeds!)  but loves Saracen re leve. I soak a handful of Spiller's hi fibre nuts, mix the vit e and Alcar in, then add the re leve. Works a treat


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## ozpoz (11 May 2017)

criso said:



			Not the cheapest option but the turning point for my fussy one was Agrobs Musli
		
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This. It smells delicious and mine gallop to the fence at teatime when I feed this. They really love it.


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## ycbm (11 May 2017)

Re-leve and Copra both ordered. Agrobs next if neither of those do the trick. 

Bottle of wine to everyone who has suggested something he will actually eat!


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## Tiddlypom (11 May 2017)

Another vote for Baileys Fibre Plus Nuggets. Got some in for the diva Cushing's mare recently after a recommendation on here, after she became depressed and inappetent again after her meds were increased.


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## ester (11 May 2017)

ycbm said:



			Re-leve and Copra both ordered. Agrobs next if neither of those do the trick. 

Bottle of wine to everyone who has suggested something he will actually eat!
		
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If you go the agrobs route I would prob opt for the museli, F gets the aspero as I told him he wasn't old enough to need flowers! Good luck!


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## criso (11 May 2017)

ester said:



			If you go the agrobs route I would prob opt for the museli, F gets the aspero as I told him he wasn't old enough to need flowers! Good luck!
		
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Agreed.  I got samples before I bought,  Tigger was a bit meh about the Wiesencobs, loved the musli but decided he'd as soon eat the plastic bag it came in as eat the Aspero.


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## Cobbytype (11 May 2017)

I read years ago that marzipan is irresistible... I'm not even sure if horses should have food containing almonds, so maybe someone else can advise on that point. Maybe a ball of marzipan with the meds squished in it?


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## ycbm (11 May 2017)

Cobbytype said:



			I read years ago that marzipan is irresistible... I'm not even sure if horses should have food containing almonds, so maybe someone else can advise on that point. Maybe a ball of marzipan with the meds squished in it?
		
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He might find it irresistible, I hate it


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## Tyssandi (11 May 2017)

milliepops said:



			Mine are big big fans of soaked grass nuts, they are a great carrier for all sorts and quite strongly scented.  Does he like grazing when he's out?

And Saracen Re Leve is weird but apparenlty nice smelling and appears tasty enough to even get Millie the highly suspicious fuss pot to eat bute... also got Kira onto the lorry when she was in her absolute refusal to load period.

if you're prepared to go for the commercial feeds option I bet most manufacturers would send out samples for you to try... if he is one that likes novelty then having lots of different ones to try could be a way forward.... :wink3:
		
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Ditto  grass Nuts
 soaked hay brick
ready grass

 Make the meal more tempting: a splash of molasses, a scoop of soaked sugar beet or mixing in apples and carrots are all things that can help to make the meal more tempting. You could also offer less food per meal and feed more meals per day.
&#8226; Increase your turnout time. It&#8217;ll help your horse to relax and he&#8217;ll be able to pick at grass when he&#8217;s turned out.
&#8226; Vary the food that you offer. Your horse will increase the amount of time he spends eating if different forages are offered in different locations around the stable.
&#8226; Find something they do like: changing to a low-energy, high fibre cube has been shown to work.
&#8226; Add gorse to your feed bucket. An old wives tale that does actually appear to work! Adding a stick of gorse to your feed has been shown to improve appetite&#8230; weird!..
&#8226; Vitamin B is commonly used as a &#8216;pick me up&#8217; or can perk up an appetite. Feed your horse a B-Vitamin supplement! It may help with your fussy eater!
Added vitamins: Vitamin B12 injections are often used as a pick me up, and to perk up a jaded appetite.  B-vitamins are produced by the hindgut so if there is anything amiss with its function, a course of B vitamins may help.
https://www.millbryhill.co.uk/blog/2015/05/horse-care-feeding-fussy-eaters/


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## ycbm (11 May 2017)

I was going to thank you for all that typing, even though most of it has either already been tried or doesn't apply, as I've explained in the rest of the thread.  You really did ought to acknowledge sources like this Tyssandi. 

http://www.equestrian.com/equestrianbuzz/tips-advice/feeding-fussy-horse

He doesn't have a jaded appetite, he just doesn't want any hard food.


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## Doormouse (11 May 2017)

Copra has sorted all my fussy feeders except my old Cushing pony who is a nightmare to feed and refuses anything sloppy even though he has no teeth!

Baileys Ease and Excel he adores and will eat that with anything in it!


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## Cobbytype (11 May 2017)

ycbm said:



			He might find it irresistible, I hate it 

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I hate it too, but if it works it'll be a cheap way of getting the meds down him. Not sure if you're feeding the Vit. E in free flowing oil form (I guess you probably are because it's the cheapest way), but maybe natural tocopherol capsules would be easier to disguise in his food - they'd squish very nicely into the middle of a little ball of marzipan?


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## Ladyinred (11 May 2017)

Honey? as opposed to molasses. 
And try grated apple and carrot added to feed so he doesn't scoff the bits and leave the rest.
The marzipan sounds like a good idea.. grit your teeth and remind yourself you're doing it for him  
Mix Fast Fibre or similar with warm water, the smell changes completely and ours go crazy for it.


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## GirlFriday (11 May 2017)

JillA said:



			Is he getting grass, and what's his condition score? Does he need feed as a supplement carrier only, or to keep his condition. What does your vet say, is there something metabolic or with his GIT going on?
		
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This.

I mean assuming condition score 3/10 as OP said...

Horse telling you to save some money on supplements?


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## ester (11 May 2017)

Err the horse has issues that means it needs to have oil/alcar.... the horse does not know what is best for it! 

Why would you assume condition score 3/10? that wouldn't be a 'perfect 3' a perfect 3 would be on the scale of 5. I'm not aware of an out of 10 scale either, the Henneke system is out of 9...


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## wench (11 May 2017)

Will he eat cheap molassed mix? Dodson and horrell equine sensitive is good as well


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## ycbm (11 May 2017)

GirlFriday said:



			This.

I mean assuming condition score 3/10 as OP said...

Horse telling you to save some money on supplements?
		
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He's two and a half or three out of five, the standard way of scoring by my physio, not ten.

Horse will die without supplements. He is unable to carry his own body through muscle weakness.


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## Boulty (11 May 2017)

Agrobs mash (soak in warm water, smells v nice) muesli, chaff or grass cobs (all of which they'll send samples of if you ask them), Copra (it's a love it or hate it but can be soaked warm or cold or sprinkled on stuff dry), alfalfa or grass pellets (soaked or dry but if dry beware of feeding on their own in large amounts due to choke risk).   When I've been desperate I have been known to pick handfuls of fresh grass and add it to feed (success varied I'm afraid!).  

As an aside although expensive if done long term you can get Vit E oil as a liquid from Holland and Barrett which could then be syringed in (I reccomend the 15ml rabbit recovery syringes from supreme science as being a nice size for such tasks... they're what I use for my dissolved Prasend tablets!)  I used this when I was having issues getting hold of the powder for some reason and palatability seemed to be ok.   May be a short term way to get that in at least? 

Re the Alcar will that dissolve in a little hot water and apple juice to be syringed in or not really?

Mine can be an absolute arse about eating things when the grass flushes.  (I tried every trick that people far better qualified than myself suggested including all that you've described)  The only thing that worked for him last year was putting him on box rest so he had no access to grass (He was on the verge of laminitis hence the boxrest, the starting eating again was a nice side effect!) and then when he DID go back out he wore his muzzle!


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## Boulty (11 May 2017)

Ah ok have now read the whole thing and see that half of what I've written doesn't apply, oops!  

Also another really random thought but APF (forageplus sell it but it's not the cheapest) can allegedly improve appetite in PPID horses on Prascend.  Unsure if it is believed to have this effect in "normal" horses but if nothing else works may potentially be worth a go.  It's an adaptogen / supposed to help combat the effects of stress so shouldn't cause harm even if it doesn't work.  I bought some randomly to have in if mine went on hunger strike again and did then end up using it in a paranoid way when he had a footy episode the other month.  The taste appears not too unpleasant as he let me syringe it directly into his mouth (although it appears to taste a bit worse than Prascend)


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## GirlFriday (11 May 2017)

ycbm said:



			He's two and a half or three out of five, the standard way of scoring by my physio, not ten.

Horse will die without supplements. He is unable to carry his own body through muscle weakness.
		
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Sorry, very confusing typo on my part. I meant 3/5, ie good as opposed to 3/9 or 10 which isn't.

Surely in an extreme case like this they are effectively meds not supplements and normal rules do not apply. Ie syringe and worry abt worming later? Or is there not an option for injectibles?


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## cundlegreen (11 May 2017)

ycbm said:



			I forgot these:

Alfalfa nuts - he thinks it's evil
Grass nuts - just as evil
Timothy chop - meh.
Straw and alfalfa chop - if you must.
Molasses - pah!



Thanks for all the suggestions.  Has anyone got any copra they could let me buy a kilo of?  Buxton/Macclesfield way to save postage, or meet at Chatsworth Saturday?

I can't syringe the alcar, he will get wise to that in a couple of days and I'll never be able to worm him again. He's not interested in any kind of titbits. The others always end up with his share.

 I can, if necessary, stick the vitamin e to his lips/teeth/gums and that will be my last resort if he hasn't eaten by the time I go to bed.

I'll probably try what I did with my mini when she wouldn't eat bute, and mix both the alcar and the vitE in Golden syrup and stick it to his mouth. Now I'm annoyed that I didn't by Golden syrup when I was out earlier : (
		
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Another who really rates releve, despite the price! What about malt extract if you can still get it?


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## fairyclare (11 May 2017)

criso said:



			Not the cheapest option but the turning point for my fussy one was Agrobs Musli
		
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This!! 
Agrobs mash made with warm water was the only thing I could tempt my poorly horse to eat when she was being anorexic

ycmb, I have a bin full which is no longer needed, happy to send a sample to try?


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## ycbm (12 May 2017)

Thank you fairyclare. I'll PM you my address if the copra and the re-leve fail.

He ate yesterday after seven hours locked up with nothing else to eat but pink mash, bran and all the supplements. That's actually an improvement!

Pink mash is supposed to be irresistible to fussy eaters as well. Someone forgot to tell him. Good job the others like it!

PS, yes I know about the ulcer risk! Rock v. hard place.


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## ycbm (12 May 2017)

cundlegreen said:



			Another who really rates releve, despite the price! What about malt extract if you can still get it?
		
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He has brewer's yeast, similar to marmite and malt extract.


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## texas (12 May 2017)

How about Rowan & Barbary mashes?  Ready mash smells amazing but has molasses.  Solution mash is the version without but it takes some a while to get used to it.  For syringing in I'd recommend a fruit baby puree to mix it with.  The vet recommended that post dental surgery for my pony.  Despite not wanting anything near his mouth post surgery or particularly liking worming usually he was quite accepting of this.


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## ycbm (12 May 2017)

cundlegreen said:



			Another who really rates releve, despite the price! What about malt extract if you can still get it?
		
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He gets brewer's yeast, pretty much the same as marmite and malt extract.


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## Asha (12 May 2017)

what a nightmare for you.

the two things mine always eat - mollichop bloom. They love the stuff. I always use it when I need to get meds into any of them. The other thing mine go crazy for is stud balancer ? I know I know, I shouldn't let them have it, and my broodmare and foal look at me with disgust, but they only get a little tit bit every now and then when they have been goo.

I have some of both if you need any


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## ycbm (12 May 2017)

I'll do whatever it takes to find something he'll  eat his whole range of supplements in. They're  necessary to balance a serious overload of iron and manganese in my grazing that has previously caused laminitis in my horses. Meanwhile,  I could possibly start forcing the life threatening ones down his throat somehow. But we're talking about 10ml of an extremely thick oil that I can't just shoot down his throat because it won't leave the syringe fast  enough. So he would  be able to spit it out. And a15ml scoop full of alcar powder, which will dissolve in water, but obviously quite a lot of it. The two won't mix, obviously, and I can't see him tolerating that twice a morning for more than a day or two! Likewise, if he will take a tidbit at all, which he usually won't, he wouldn't be fooled into that more than once.

You'll see why I'm so keen to find a food he'll take it in!


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## ycbm (12 May 2017)

Thank you Asha, you're on my list


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## Amymay (12 May 2017)

Nothing wrong with his teeth?


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## ycbm (12 May 2017)

amymay said:



			Nothing wrong with his teeth?
		
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Not unless he gets the same problem with his teeth every spring and it stops him eating mash but not haylage


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## quizzie (12 May 2017)

I have recently started using Simple systems top nosh, a small pellet made of alfalfa leaf (no stem) and linseed....I can call mine in from a lush field with it, and they will follow with noses glued to your hand/pocket. Worth a try?


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## chaps89 (12 May 2017)

I had an ex racer do very well on the simple systems top nosh and it was apparently very tastey.
I'm wondering if you could do a fruit smoothy for him with the meds in as an alternative as well? An old share horse used to love pears and bananas, the 2 would probably mash into a nice mush and have quite strong flavours which would perhaps hide the meds?
Out of interest, will he eat the bucket feed if there are no meds in it?


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## ihatework (12 May 2017)

If he is tolerant enough of worming, try one of those large syringes and rubber tubes used for feeding lambs


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## Suncat (12 May 2017)

Sorry if someone's already suggested this but.. Baby food? I used to have to get a large amount of bitter drugs into one of mine. I mixed them into mostly vegetable or fruit based ones and then slowly syringed it into his mouth (mostly because it was less messy or feed it out of a small bowl. 
I was also wondering if there's anyway of solving this using training..? Turn it into a puzzle or positive challenge for him..? I don't have a clear idea, but if you could find something that motivates him as a reward and associate it? So (if this was cartoon world!) if what he wants is to go out then his food is the weight keeping the door shut. Eat the food = open door. I know that's not immediately helpful, it was just me musing! But maybe turning the situation on its head might produce an unexpected solution? 
I worked too late last night


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## mini-eventer (12 May 2017)

Completely random but Baileys Stud Balancer...

My native is the same just not interested in feed in summer, he doesn't like fast fiber, any thing soaked, turns his nose up at molasses I've always struggled to get meds/supplements into him. I have never been able to get him to eat bute bar leaving him in over night with barely anything but his hard feed.


Then one day i gave him a sachet of bute in a mug full of my other horses balancer... dry.. thinking what is the point but i will give it ago. and he wolfed it down  

Now he is a bit older I like to supplement him to help his creaky joints. I give him a mug of balancer handful of chaff and dampen it with minimal beet for his feed and i can get him to eat anything in it!


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## Casey76 (12 May 2017)

I can send you some Agrobs Mash if you'd like to try that?

The only way I can get T to eat her supplements is to make her dinners with lots and lots (and lots) of spearmint.  It's pretty soul destroying watching your horse NOT eat the dinner you are paying a fortune for, knowing that it will make them feel better.  I fluctuate between wanting to wail with tears and lose my temper with her every time I find a half full feed bowl on a morning, especially if she is in a stiff and sore phase.


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## Annagain (12 May 2017)

mini-eventer said:



			Then one day i gave him a sachet of bute in a mug full of my other horses balancer... dry.. thinking what is the point but i will give it ago. and he wolfed it down  

Click to expand...

My vet always recommends giving bute dry- he says it has a coating to make it more palatable that dissolves once wet and they can then taste the bute more. It works with one of mine, not the other. Not sure if it would work here as one of the supplements is an oil.


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## SpottyMare (12 May 2017)

Probably not ideal for PSSM, but baileys fibre nuggets seem to have an almost addictive quality to every horse I've known have them.  They're known as crack nuggets on the yard...


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## Sussexbythesea (12 May 2017)

SpottyMare said:



			Probably not ideal for PSSM, but baileys fibre nuggets seem to have an almost addictive quality to every horse I've known have them.  They're known as crack nuggets on the yard... 

Click to expand...

I always have a pocket full and I'm very popular


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## SEL (12 May 2017)

My big lad is rather taken by Dodson & Horrell ERS pellets. Lovely picture of a racehorse on the front of the packet - which he most certainly is not.

They do make him eat his stinky amino acid supplement though. He's another PSSM'er who would rather pig out on grass and hay and avoid his hard feed with necessary supplements in. 

Whether its the ERS pellets or the extra amino acids he's looking particularly stunning right now. Such a pity he only has 1 working leg!

More than happy to pop some in an envelope if you want to see if they work.


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## ycbm (12 May 2017)

Suncat said:



			Sorry if someone's already suggested this but.. Baby food? I used to have to get a large amount of bitter drugs into one of mine. I mixed them into mostly vegetable or fruit based ones and then slowly syringed it into his mouth (mostly because it was less messy or feed it out of a small bowl. 
I was also wondering if there's anyway of solving this using training..? Turn it into a puzzle or positive challenge for him..? I don't have a clear idea, but if you could find something that motivates him as a reward and associate it? So (if this was cartoon world!) if what he wants is to go out then his food is the weight keeping the door shut. Eat the food = open door. I know that's not immediately helpful, it was just me musing! But maybe turning the situation on its head might produce an unexpected solution? 
I worked too late last night 

Click to expand...

Great lateral thinking 

Thanks for the suggestions everyone.

He will eat food without meds in but is still picky.

Anyone want fourteen kilos of pink mash pellets for a tenner?  They are, apparently, the work of the devil. I don't have high hopes of re-leve because it's mostly the same fast fibre, but we will see!

Today he ate, but only after adding  a ton of bran (plus calcium to balance the phosphorous!), which is just about ok on a cool drizzly day.  But since he's an easy keeper prone to develop a crest, that isn't a solution for the rest of the summer. 

Would it be wrong of me to wish everyone in the north west a cold wet summer?


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## SEL (12 May 2017)

ycbm said:



			Great lateral thinking 


Would it be wrong of me to wish everyone in the north west a cold wet summer?  

Click to expand...

Well I've pretty much told everyone in the south east that I don't care if it never rains again and my horse's paddock turns to dust....... No sugar in dust.


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## Leo Walker (12 May 2017)

SEL said:



			Well I've pretty much told everyone in the south east that I don't care if it never rains again and my horse's paddock turns to dust....... No sugar in dust.
		
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This is how I feel. Its rained today and I'm gutted! Means the grass is going to go mad and my lovely trim cob is going to need restricting


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## Leo Walker (12 May 2017)

Saracens Shape up might work. Its a balancer designed for laminitics etc. I tried it once, its a sticky gooey mix that smells a bit like christmas cake! I think its mainly cinnamon. The horses were going mad for it, and while I wouldnt feed it too a laminitic, its not too bad


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## skint1 (12 May 2017)

Leo Walker said:



			This is how I feel. Its rained today and I'm gutted! Means the grass is going to go mad and my lovely trim cob is going to need restricting 

Click to expand...

Yup, same here


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## kernal grain 6 (12 May 2017)

Hi my tb loves spillers lay off cubes, they are basically high fibre cubes with extra vitamin E, I also soak to feed his equishure and he eats it and it is not pleasant!


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## Chumsmum (12 May 2017)

Mine have always eaten meds better in a balancer rather than a mix or mash type product - don't know why but it works..? I have used Baileys Lo Cal and Top Spec Comprehensive. Can post a sample of the Top Spec if needed.  Good luck xx


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## foxy1 (12 May 2017)

Have faith! My horse recoils in horror at fast fibre in his bowl but loves the re l eve!!


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## conniegirl (12 May 2017)

I know it sounds strange but my lad who can smell bute a mile off and will not go near a bucket with it in practically mugs me for bute laced strawberry fromage frais.

All else fails mix the powder with natural yoghurt and syringe it down him


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## Auslander (12 May 2017)

ycbm said:



			I don't have high hopes of re-leve because it's mostly the same fast fibre, but we will see!


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It's nothing like Fast Fibre! It's a mix, and although it's supposed to be low starch/low sugar, it looks and smells like horsey junk food!


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## only_me (12 May 2017)

I've found re leve a great feed, Billy started on it when he was 6 and I couldn't get the weight on him. He's still on it 5 years later 

Definitely give it a go, even Shetland will mug me for that even over the cheap molasses mix lol. Hope it works!


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## horselady (12 May 2017)

Soaked hay cobs with banana mashed in.


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## dancingkris (12 May 2017)

Gosh I am no help at all....you very kindly donated your redundant bag of grass nuts to me a few weeks ago. I have only just seen this as I've not been on here for a while but I'd be happy to drop you a tub of copra up to see if that might work?


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## dancingkris (12 May 2017)

I can also offer turmeric and black sunflower seeds whuch my lot go mad for!


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## ycbm (12 May 2017)

dancingkris said:



			Gosh I am no help at all....you very kindly donated your redundant bag of grass nuts to me a few weeks ago. I have only just seen this as I've not been on here for a while but I'd be happy to drop you a tub of copra up to see if that might work?
		
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Got it on order thanks DK, it should arrive Monday. I hope your guys are enjoying the nuts.


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## criso (12 May 2017)

Also worth working out what texture he prefers.  The fussy Musli loving one is not fan of sloppy feeds and prefers something with a bit of bite.   He will eat Copra but only if I get the Musli:Copra ratio correct, too much Copra and he refuses to eat.


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## _GG_ (12 May 2017)

Auslander said:



			It's nothing like Fast Fibre! It's a mix, and although it's supposed to be low starch/low sugar, it looks and smells like horsey junk food!
		
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Absolutely. I only know of one fast fibre  and it couldn't be more different to re-leve.

I highly rate re-leve. Horses seem to just love it.


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## dancingkris (12 May 2017)

I don't know if you have heard of The Natural Horse Feed Company? Theyre on facebook or i can send you Sue's number. As the name suggests shes a massive advocate of low sugar barefoot friendly feeds. She can source stuff which otherwise might be difficult to obtain or offer samples for you to try to avoid having to buy full sacks of feed that end up being given away (*wink*). Sue is a mine of information and a very interesting person to chat to and she travels all over our area delivering.


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## ycbm (13 May 2017)

I've parked by her van in McDonald's car park


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## ycbm (13 May 2017)

I think a lot of the fast soak mashes have it in. I think it's the inulin fibre that was on the sleep program the other night. That's why they are so good for the gut, inulin (the fibres found in pulses) is a big pro biotic.


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## ycbm (13 May 2017)

Well that's two more to knock off the list. I got some good size samples of Dodson& Horrel Safe and Sound and Fibre something-or-other from Chatsworth today. Both smelt superb - to me anyway. Reaction to the first?  Pah!   Reaction to the second?  Meh.

Very intrigued what happens with copra and re-leve.

He ate today. Coming in out of a night in the rain helped


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## BBP (14 May 2017)

ycbm said:



			Well that's two more to knock off the list. I got some good size samples of Dodson& Horrel Safe and Sound and Fibre something-or-other from Chatsworth today. Both smelt superb - to me anyway. Reaction to the first?  Pah!   Reaction to the second?  Meh.

Very intrigued what happens with copra and re-leve.

He ate today. Coming in out of a night in the rain helped 

Click to expand...

Re-leve is the only thing that tempted my insanely fussy horse into eating his medication (he has RER) but I had to balance the slightly higher sugar levels with the more urgent requirement for him to eat his ulcer meds. I had tried literally everything else. Good luck!


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## ycbm (15 May 2017)

Copra arrived at eight. Brought in a cold, wet, hungry horse. He dived into his feed with added copra. I'm just about to crack the champagne when he pulls a face, spits out the mouthful and refuses to eat any more. Replace it with just bran, straw and supps and he ate it all. 

DK do you want a full bag of copra, a chat and a coffee for ten quid?

Bring on the re-leve!


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## Wagtail (15 May 2017)

ycbm said:



			Copra arrived at eight. Brought in a cold, wet, hungry horse. He dived into his feed with added copra. I'm just about to crack the champagne when he pulls a face, spits out the mouthful and refuses to eat any more. Replace it with just bran, straw and supps and he ate it all. 

DK do you want a full bag of copra, a chat and a coffee for ten quid?

Bring on the re-leve!
		
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Horses. They always do what you least expect. It's the law.


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## Sukistokes2 (15 May 2017)

All I can say is thank the lord i don't have a fussy horse!!!
YCBM you have the patience of a saint!


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## spacefaer (15 May 2017)

_GG_ said:



			Absolutely. I only know of one fast fibre  and it couldn't be more different to re-leve.

I highly rate re-leve. Horses seem to just love it.
		
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My (previously ulcery) horse loved it - me, not so much, when he spent some time cantering round the stable after a days' worth of eating it.  He's not allowed it now, until he's fit enough to work hard enough to use up all the extra energy it gave him.... I'm thinking Badminton maybe, or the Grand National......


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## ycbm (15 May 2017)

Sukistokes2 said:



			All I can say is thank the lord i don't have a fussy horse!!!
YCBM you have the patience of a saint!
		
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Unfortunately, I don't. I swear I'm going to rip his head off if the re-leve doesn't work! It's just a good job that he is extremely pretty and a great mover


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## ycbm (15 May 2017)

spacefaer said:



			My (previously ulcery) horse loved it - me, not so much, when he spent some time cantering round the stable after a days' worth of eating it.  He's not allowed it now, until he's fit enough to work hard enough to  use up all the extra energy it gave him.... I'm thinking Badminton maybe, or the Grand National......
		
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Oh joy. I have that to look forward to then


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## mini-eventer (15 May 2017)

See if you can get a sample of the baileys Stud Balancer. It sounds random but my guy was a picky devil and it worked for him. it is expensive to buy a bag to test but give them a ring


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## Northern Hare (15 May 2017)

Hi ycbm.  I'm afraid I've not read right through the posts but I just wondered how old your horse is?  I don't suppose his drop in appetite could be anything to do with Cushings could it - have you had him tested at all?  It's just that Cushings affects them seasonally and when my horse first had it, he lost his appetite big time - which then got worse when he started on the medication (Prascend), which is a known side effect.

The other thing would be whether he might have any mouth ulcers which particularly affects my horse in the Spring.  He recently went off his feed and it turned out that it was due to a slight gum infection due to impacted feed between his teeth and a small ulcer on the side of his tongue due to a slightly sharp edge on his tooth - his teeth are checked every 4 to 5 months so it's didn't take long for it to cause a problem. 

Anyway, ref feeds to tempt your horse, when he started on Prascend, I'd literally tried every feed from my local feed merchant, then I bought a reduced bag of Topspec Comprehensive Balancer as the bag had torn, plus also their Topspec Cool Condition Cubes.  I was totally amazed when I offered him that because he loved it - he was fed four small feeds a day and fairly quickly picked up his condition.  I've suggested it to others and it does seem to tempt the fussy eaters.  

Good luck - I know how worrying it is when they keep turning their noses up at feed.....and it's expensive!


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## ycbm (15 May 2017)

It's official. I have the only horse in the world that won't eat re-leve. I thought it smelt wonderful. He spat it all over me.

I give up. Thanks everyone for all your suggestions, but I've now offered him all the most tempting foods  and he has refused them. His favourites are plain bran (with calcium added to balance the phosphorous)  and linseed when I need more calories. So that's what he gets. And he'll come in of a morning and stay in his stable until he's eaten it. The risk of ulcers is lower than the risk of PSSM, so that's how it will have to be. Roll on September, he'll eat again then.

Sigh.

Thanks again folks.


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## horselady (15 May 2017)

ycbm said:



			It's official. I have the only horse in the world that won't eat re-leve. I thought it smelt wonderful. He spat it all over me.

I give up. Thanks everyone for all your suggestions, but I've now offered him all the most tempting foods  and he has refused them. His favourites are plain bran (with calcium added to balance the phosphorous)  and linseed when I need more calories. So that's what he gets. And he'll come in of a morning and stay in his stable until he's eaten it. The risk of ulcers is lower than the risk of PSSM, so that's how it will have to be. Roll on September, he'll eat again then.

Sigh.

Thanks again folks.
		
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Seriously try the soaked hay cobs and banana.


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## ycbm (15 May 2017)

horselady said:



			Seriously try the soaked hay cobs and banana.
		
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I'm on strike. I'm not mashing banana for a horse who won't even take an apple or a carrot out of my hand.


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## cobgoblin (15 May 2017)

I reckon it's time to give the custard a try!


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## Wagtail (15 May 2017)

Apologies if I've missed it but have you tried readigrass with hot water poured over it?


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## horselady (15 May 2017)

My horse preferres oranges to apples or carrots and bananas to everything.


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## ycbm (15 May 2017)

cobgoblin said:



			I reckon it's time to give the custard a try!
		
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OK, I'll do that one, mainly because I love it too 

Dry or wet?


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## ycbm (15 May 2017)

Wagtail said:



			Apologies if I've missed it but have you tried readigrass with hot water poured over it?
		
Click to expand...


Yup. Last year he refused to touch Readigrass or a Timothy Chop I bought from Scotland.

He's really speshul!!


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## ycbm (15 May 2017)

horselady said:



			My horse preferres oranges to apples or carrots and bananas to everything.
		
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Tried orange juice, no go. I'll try a banana tomorrow.


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## ycbm (15 May 2017)

In case everyone thinks I'm nuts (or a saint!)  I plan to get a little video to show you why I bother with this horse!


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## Ladyinred (15 May 2017)

Mine, with one exception, would all give their right hoof for a banana. Bet yours is like my one exception  who acts like we are poisoning him.

I reckon mashed banana with a spoonful of honey surrounded by a delicate and delicious custard and served in a dessert plate possibly daubed (tastefully) with a raspberry jus.


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## ycbm (15 May 2017)

Ladyinred said:



			Mine, with one exception, would all give their right hoof for a banana. Bet yours is like my one exception  who acts like we are poisoning him.

I reckon mashed banana with a spoonful of honey surrounded by a delicate and delicious custard and served in a dessert plate possibly daubed (tastefully) with a raspberry jus.
		
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Whod'yathinkIam?  Raymond Blanc?


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## criso (15 May 2017)

Ladyinred said:



			Mine, with one exception, would all give their right hoof for a banana. .
		
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My fussy one didn't like bananas at first, it was only a couple of months watching my other one go mad over bananas persuaded him to try it  and now he likes them.  

In fact that is true of nearly everything, he is very suspicious of anything new so if I let him see the other one eating in and keep offering a little from time to time till he realises I'm not trying to poison him.


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## ycbm (15 May 2017)

criso said:



			My fussy one didn't like bananas at first, it was only a couple of months watching my other one go mad over bananas persuaded him to try it  and now he likes them.  

In fact that is true of nearly everything, he is very suspicious of anything new so if I let him see the other one eating in and keep offering a little from time to time till he realises I'm not trying to poison him.
		
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I've been trying that trick for three years


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## chaps89 (15 May 2017)

When you're trying him on new foods, do you try them with his meds in straight away or just as they are to start with? Wonder if just seeing if he likes the food on its own before adding meds so he can't get a taste for it/trust you're not trying to 'poison' him might be an idea.
Failing that I can't wait to hear how he gets on with the custard/mashed banana/raspberry jus concoction! ;-)


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## ycbm (15 May 2017)

Chaps I've added the supplements into a big portion straight away, because I know from loooooong experience that there is simply no point in teaching him that something is lovely and tasty and then adding the minerals. The only way to do it is to add them immediately to a big portion and then reduce the portion to what won't put too much weight on him.

He's very clear what he will and won't eat. He took to bran immediately, and to linseed meal. Oats are third, but some way behind.  Bran and linseed meal with brewer's yeast are head and shoulders above any other feed as far as he is concerned.

I'm settled at the moment on 200 grams of bran and a handful of straw chaff. I know that he will take hours to eat that again when the sun comes out, and that it will be too much to keep his weight steady in mid summer as well. I'm just resigned to upping his exercise if he gets a crest. I just hope he stays fit enough to do it.


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## LadySam (16 May 2017)

Ladyinred said:



			I reckon mashed banana with a spoonful of honey surrounded by a delicate and delicious custard and served in a dessert plate possibly daubed (tastefully) with a raspberry jus.
		
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Hey, don't knock it!  One of ours used to love custard more than anything.  She even ended up with a story about her and her custard addiction in the local paper.

Admittedly she was less fancy than this.  Just a big ol' mixing bowl of custard she could slurp was her thing.


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## little_critter (16 May 2017)

I may be being thick here but I thought modern bran was fairly low calorie (because we are better at stripping the wheat from the bran nowadays, so bran is now low nutritional value) 
I know the mineral balance is off in bran, but I think you said you're correcting that, but I wonder why you are worried about sticking with bran on a calorie basis?
Personally if bran works then I'd stick with it.


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## Tiddlypom (16 May 2017)

I can't think that feeding 200g of bran would be enough to give a horse a crest either? There's beggar all calorific value in it. I've fed it to picky horses before.

Has it been mentioned about having a good EDT or experienced dentally trained vet out to examine his mouth? If he's sore anywhere, that wouldn't help his appetite.


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## ycbm (16 May 2017)

little_critter said:



			I may be being thick here but I thought modern bran was fairly low calorie (because we are better at stripping the wheat from the bran nowadays, so bran is now low nutritional value) 
I know the mineral balance is off in bran, but I think you said you're correcting that, but I wonder why you are worried about sticking with bran on a calorie basis?
Personally if bran works then I'd stick with it.
		
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It only works when the sun shines if I starve him in his stable all day. That makes him anxious and is not good for his stomach in two ways at the same time 

I just looked up bran and it's about 250 calories per 100g.


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## ycbm (16 May 2017)

Tiddlypom said:



			I can't think that feeding 200g of bran would be enough to give a horse a crest either? There's beggar all calorific value in it. I've fed it to picky horses before.

Has it been mentioned about having a good EDT or experienced dentally trained vet out to examine his mouth? If he's sore anywhere, that wouldn't help his appetite.
		
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It would be strange that he's only sore when the sun shines and with bran not with haylage 

He's got a very uncomplicated mouth and is due for his routine 30 seconds of dental treatment in July 


We're going round in circles folks. I know I can't expect you all to read well over a hundred posts, but the questions coming up now have already been answered.

Thanks everyone for trying to help. I'll give you an update on custard powder!


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## bubsqueaks (16 May 2017)

I have very fussy pony who sniffs medication a mile off - tried all the normal tricks of apple sauce, hiding in apple etc, then tried AGROBS MASH - he loves it mixed with warm water & meds straight in.



ycbm said:



			This is a horse who always stops eating in summer, but this year is worse than usual.  This is a matter of life and death, not just a few minerals to prevent me having to put shoes on him. He needs vitamin E and alcar to keep him on his feet at all.

So far I have tried:

bran
Oats
Linseed
Nuts
Sugar beet
Pink mash
Apple juice
Orange juice
Grated carrot
Grated apple
Fenugreek
Mint

His favourites are bran and linseed.

Some of these things will work for a day or three but not longer.

I have tried hand feeding him, including shoving it in the bit gap, which he is now refusing.

The most successful recently was giving him one handful and no more till that was gone. That's now failed.

I've split out the vitamin E and alcar which are essential and removed the nasty tasting copper, zinc and magnesium, but he still won't have it. There is too much alcar and vitamin E to hide in anything like an apple. 

I had to leave him in on his own all last night with nothing but his bucket feed to force him to take the first stuff he's eaten in 48 hours.

He's in again now instead of in the barn with his haylage, but ignoring the bucket on his door. He will only eat from a door bucket, not from the floor.

If he doesn't die anyway, I'm going to rip his bloody head off if I don't find a way to feed him.

Ideas please!
		
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## little_critter (16 May 2017)

ycbm said:



			It only works when the sun shines if I starve him in his stable all day. That makes him anxious and is not good for his stomach in two ways at the same time 

I just looked up bran and it's about 250 calories per 100g.
		
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Ah - sorry, I misunderstood and thought that bran seemed to be working ok. Sorry you're having a tough time with him. Mine can be a bit fussy and that is annoying enough when she is a good doer and her supplements aren't essential.


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## cobgoblin (16 May 2017)

ycbm said:



			Thanks everyone for trying to help. I'll give you an update on custard powder!
		
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Get some Bird's Instant...much simpler to make up.


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## ycbm (16 May 2017)

cobgoblin said:



			Get some Bird's Instant...much simpler to make up.
		
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I haven't gone to town yet. I won't be coming home without it :h

Tried him with re-leve at a different texture today and now he won't eat anything I put in his bowl! He's in prison now.

Anyone want to send me a kilo of agrobs mash?


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## only_me (16 May 2017)

ycbm said:



			I haven't gone to town yet. I won't be coming home without it :h

Tried him with re-leve at a different texture today and now he won't eat anything I put in his bowl! He's in prison now.

Anyone want to send me a kilo of agrobs mash?
		
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Random thought, but could it be due to his feed bowl? Maybe taste of previous medicines in it or something he really didn't like. 
Might be worth trying a different bucket for each new feed, or retrying some of the older Feeds in a new bucket.


Not sure if have been mentioned before, but what about feeding straights? Just maize and oats, barley?
Or even trying hot barley?


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## ycbm (16 May 2017)

If it's his feed bowl he only hates it when it's warm


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## ihatework (16 May 2017)

If he is liking linseed what about old fashioned linseed jelly


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## ycbm (16 May 2017)

It's bad enough being asked to cook instant custard .   I just can't imagine filling the kitchen with boiling linseed.


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## Tiddlypom (16 May 2017)

Linseed cooked in the microwave is less smelly than if it is boiled up on the hob. It's still fairly smelly, though.

Goodness, that takes me back, I used to cycle 9 miles to work and see to the horse en route, carrying a plastic tub of homecooked linseed jelly in the saddlebag .


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## Morgan123 (16 May 2017)

Lost track of the things you've tried now but someone was talking to me recently about peas, and how they used to be a 'thing' but no longer - dried, garden or mushy peas. Apparently v high energy? Might be worth a go. Sorry if that's duplicating ideas you've already had.


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## ycbm (16 May 2017)

Verdict:

The Drizzle has asked me to inform you all that he believes custard should be reserved for slapping into clowns' faces.

He did finish his prison stint before midday though, so I'm hopeful that he is putting two and two together about not being let into the barn with his mate until the bowl is empty. That would help a lot.


Thanks for trying!


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## horselady (16 May 2017)

How did the banana go down?


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## ycbm (16 May 2017)

horselady said:



			How did the banana go down?
		
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I forgot the banana!  I've just gone and let them out for the night and tried Drizzle with banana while Henry enthusiastically crunched a carrot to give him the idea. He sniffed it, tried it, and made a face like I'd tried to poison him. Safe to say it's probably not the answer


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## horselady (16 May 2017)

Ok, the one food item I have never, ever seen a horse turn down are apply horse treats.


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## Goldenstar (16 May 2017)

Tiddlypom said:



			Linseed cooked in the microwave is less smelly than if it is boiled up on the hob. It's still fairly smelly, though.

Goodness, that takes me back, I used to cycle 9 miles to work and see to the horse en route, carrying a plastic tub of homecooked linseed jelly in the saddlebag .
		
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And the aftermath of a boil over is a thing to behold .


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## Amymay (16 May 2017)

How about tomato soup? Sounds odd, but horses seem to love it.


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## horselady (16 May 2017)

Does he like molasses or honey? If so smother it on a fairly plain food like the hay cobs and he will probably eat it.


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## ycbm (16 May 2017)

No, tried both.

He's got us all beat!


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## YasandCrystal (16 May 2017)

Sorry I may have missed it but have you had any kind of equine therapist out to him to do some work with his gut/meridians? My mini who had liquid poo for months was really helped with shiatsu and is finally solid a year on. He is very fussy and is fed a handful of Baileys stud mix and Pink Mash twice daily now. I literally tried so many feeds and herbs and supplements over the months like you have. I added dried peppermint to feed. I offered herbs for self selection which he enjoyed, tried Guiness and seaweed.
There must be something going on for this appetite suppression. I am also a fan of cranial sacral therapy which my osteopath uses. Just ideas.
I will likely get shot down for this but you could try using an animal communicator and ask your horse what's going on. I have used distance ones and can honestly say best £45 I have spent.


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## MasterBenedict (16 May 2017)

No idea if it would be suitable or help, but Kramer do the most amazing delicious feed called Fruchtgenuss -

https://www.kramer.co.uk/Fruity-Delight.htm?websale8=kraemer-pferdesport.47-GB&pi=490614&ci=261840

My boys go crazy for it and it looks and smells (and tastes  - yes, I have tried it XD ) amazing.

Hope you find a solution soon.


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## horselady (16 May 2017)

countrywide horse and pony mix is truly delicious to all horses I have seen. Does he like peanut butter? Why not soak something in apple juice? Second the fruchtgennus by the way. a few spoon full of runny lemon curd will make some horses eat anything. see if he likes it. my mare loves raspberry jam, try that. I have know quite a few horses who will eat anything with brown sauce on too.


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## horselady (17 May 2017)

how did you get on today YBCM?


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## ycbm (17 May 2017)

horselady said:



			how did you get on today YBCM?
		
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Well it's raining, which may help. But I seem  to have managed to teach him that it pleases me if he eats a golf ball size bit from my hand. He certainly looked as if he was taking it purely to get me to tell him he's s good boy. He was taking it off my hand and then looking at me for approval. He loves praise, so it's entirely possible, and would be a very big step forward.

We'll see what happens when the sun next shines.


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## JasonW (18 May 2017)

I haven't read all 16 pages of this thread but I saw someone suggested an animal communicator. If you can message me I would be happy to try and find out the reason for it, no charge. I can also send some distant reiki if you like. If you're not into that, no problem, just wanted to help. 

I assume you have had the vet check his teeth etc?


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## Casey76 (18 May 2017)

Jason, the horse doesn't have an issue with his teeth, he is quite content stuffing himself full of grass; however he needs what is basically life-saving medication every day, but he isn't interested in a bucket feed at all :/


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## ycbm (18 May 2017)

That's it in a nutshell Casey 

I am now almost certain that I've trained him to eat just to hear me tell him how wonderful he is. He looks at it on my palm, he looks at me, he tentatively takes it and swallows it almost gritting his teeth, and looks for the praise. So it's taking an hour to get 200 grams of bran and a small handful of chaff eaten, but it's going! And the sun was shining too 

Thanks for the suggestions guys, but I'm very evidence based and communicators aren't my thing at all I'm afraid.


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## Annagain (18 May 2017)

ycbm said:



			That's it in a nutshell Casey 

I am now almost certain that I've trained him to eat just to hear me tell him how wonderful he is. He looks at it on my palm, he looks at me, he tentatively takes it and swallows it almost gritting his teeth, and looks for the praise. So it's taking an hour to get 200 grams of bran and a small handful of chaff eaten, but it's going! And the sun was shining too 

Thanks for the suggestions guys, but I'm very evidence based and communicators aren't my thing at all I'm afraid.
		
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We get a similar reaction from our dog, she's desperate for praise and will do anything for it. When we were housetraining her, unfortunately she thought weeing per se was the good thing rather than weeing outside. She'd come into the living room, pee in front of us and wag her tail madly as if to say "Aren't I a clever girl. Make a fuss of me!" It took weeks of ignoring the inside weeing and making a huge fuss of the outside weeing for her to get it!

Can you reduce the bran so it'll go down more quickly or do you need that much to disguise the taste? When my fussy boy's on bute, a tiny amount of feed, hand fed, is easier to get down him even though logic tells you to add more to hide it.


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## LCH611 (18 May 2017)

I haven't got time to read 160 posts but have you tried copra, aniseed, liquorice or marmite? Will he eat things like cleavers and cow parsley if you pick them for him?  Can anyone else step in and feed him for you - it sounds like there is quite an emotional commitment if he will only eat from the palm of your hand, and perhaps if you take yourself from the equation that would help......


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## dancingkris (18 May 2017)

Hi - I'm just catching up on this thread and all the replies. As you asked earlier yes I would love to meet you for a catch up....I grabbed a couple of samples of Thunderbrook muesli today with you in mind (although you might have already tried it) and some hay cobs (maybe you could soak them down to make a nice feed?). Anyway if you haven't tried them its worth a go!


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## ycbm (18 May 2017)

annagain said:



			We get a similar reaction from our dog, she's desperate for praise and will do anything for it. When we were housetraining her, unfortunately she thought weeing per se was the good thing rather than weeing outside. She'd come into the living room, pee in front of us and wag her tail madly as if to say "Aren't I a clever girl. Make a fuss of me!" It took weeks of ignoring the inside weeing and making a huge fuss of the outside weeing for her to get it!

Can you reduce the bran so it'll go down more quickly or do you need that much to disguise the taste? When my fussy boy's on bute, a tiny amount of feed, hand fed, is easier to get down him even though logic tells you to add more to hide it.
		
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Got to love that dog!

That's the minimum. On bad days I add even more. Today it was 300 but he ate half by himself one handful at a time. If I put all of it in the bucket at once, he often doesn't touch any of it!


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## ycbm (18 May 2017)

LCH611 said:



			I haven't got time to read 160 posts but have you tried copra, aniseed, liquorice or marmite? Will he eat things like cleavers and cow parsley if you pick them for him?  Can anyone else step in and feed him for you - it sounds like there is quite an emotional commitment if he will only eat from the palm of your hand, and perhaps if you take yourself from the equation that would help......
		
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There's no option but the bucket or me. If he won't eat from the bucket I'm pretty sure he won't eat for anyone's praise but mine 

He's at home, the commitment is doable as long as I'm not away and that's only a day a month or so. I don't stand with him, I just do one plug as I wander past with a bridle, saddle, rug etc.


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