# Not really CR, but worrying myself sick... and you guys know about comp horses..



## Ali16 (30 November 2011)

Once again.. only really posting as there is no one here at work who I can speak to. We are absolutely tearing our hair out about the OH's horse (the ginger in my sig).. he has had a rather dramatic personality change in the last couple of days.

He has gone from being happy and chilled about life in general - loved his routine, which is strictly adhered to, to worried and stressed. There has been no downturn in his ridden work either - still working well as usual. TPR all raised as he is literally throwing himself around his box. 

NOTHING has changed in his routine/ on the yard/ people around him... However, he has become increasingly anxious over the last couple of days and stopped eating yesterday evening. He is still drinking, but not sure how much longer this will last as he is winding himself up about the smallest things.

Every time anyone, horse or human, moves on the yard (even if a horse lies down/gets up in the middle of the night) he panics - calls, kicks out, basically works himself into a frenzy. 

Vet called to take bloods/see if there are any other symptoms of anything at all... Spoken on the phone to a horse behaviourist, who was no help at all... had no answers and just made us worry more about brain tumours etc (and made me want to cry). 

So now I think it's just a waiting game for the bloods (which will be marked as urgent), but I think if he carries on like this it might not be too long before he stops drinking and is on a drip at the vets... 

Anyone who knows us/our yard will know that we have done literally all we can think of to make him comfortable and settle again, but to no avail. I have never experienced anything like this before, but have seen horses with brain tumours. Of course this is what automatically springs to mind, but I cannot bear to think about that possibility until the bloods come back. 

OH GOD.. sitting here at work is making it SO much worse! Sadly not an option to take the day off otherwise I would be there in a shot. The OH and groom are there trying to keep him calm.

Sorry.. a bit of a useless post, but my brain is working overtime and I have banned myself from Googling 'Dramatic change in horse's behaviour'. If anyone has experienced anything like this before perhaps you could share?


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## YasandCrystal (30 November 2011)

So sorry for you what a worry. Only dramatic change in behaviour I have experienced with a horse is through diet change. Suspected gradual sugar build up )horse is sugar and cereal intolerant) through being fed the odd apple, then some haylage and the horse getting access to fallen acorns and then bang horse was stressy and grumpy overnight. It has taken a few weeks for him to settle again - I gave him a gut detox using green clay and chlorella.

Sorry cannot be of more help. Good luck - hope the bloods shed some light.


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## Amymay (30 November 2011)

Diet was my first thought too.

But do you turn out??


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## Rafferoo (30 November 2011)

I am afraid I don't think I have anything to add in terms of investigations as it sounds like you will take a very thorough approach.  Hopefully you will get to the bottom of it before long and I will keep everything crossed that he starts eating and stays hydrated.  There is nothing worse than not knowing what is wrong and seeing your horse suffering.


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## BBH (30 November 2011)

Has something arrived at the yard that has freaked him out, pigs, goats, large combine harvester anything he's seen but doesn't know what it is.  

Any chance of anyone ' interfering' once liveries have gone home. Horse were all let out of their stables once where I was by a bloke with a grudge and a couple were really upset.

Conversly anything gone from his routine, stable mates, field friends causing him distress.

Whatever it is sounds like its provoked an extreme reaction and if it proved not to be a medical call I'd look to his environment for an answer.


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## Ali16 (30 November 2011)

amymay said:



			Diet was my first thought too.

But do you turn out??
		
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Yes - we were thinking of diet too. He has been on the same thing as advised by nutritionist for the last four years now and had not issues before, but horses do change, just as people develop diabetes etc, so not ruling that out. Hopefully bloods will show anything like this/vet can advise. 

Yes - he does get turned out.


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## racebuddy (30 November 2011)

hi i hope your horse gets better not really experienced anything like that before especially if nothing has changed in terms of diet, even if hard feed has not changed have you had new bale of hay / halage that may have triggered something off, how was he this am? keep us updated xx


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## Amymay (30 November 2011)

Can you reduce his grub, up his hay/haylage?

Is he ok when he's out?

Has anything at all changed in his work, however small?

Did the vet look at his eyes??


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## Angua2 (30 November 2011)

something to ponder

Has something happened to or in his stable? or can he see something that is upsetting him?

Are you in a position to try a different stable?

is he better out than in?


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## Ali16 (30 November 2011)

BBH said:



			Has something arrived at the yard that has freaked him out, pigs, goats, large combine harvester anything he's seen but doesn't know what it is.  

Any chance of anyone ' interfering' once liveries have gone home. Horse were all let out of their stables once where I was by a bloke with a grudge and a couple were really upset.

Conversly anything gone from his routine, stable mates, field friends causing him distress.

Whatever it is sounds like its provoked an extreme reaction and if it proved not to be a medical call I'd look to his environment for an answer.
		
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Nothing changed at all - the yard is generally quiet.. nothing added, nothing taken away. Our training livery boxes are well away from him so he shouldn't be affected by them coming and going.. he never has done before anyway. 

Groom is there all day so no chance of interfering liveries... plus CCTV.


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## ihatework (30 November 2011)

What have you tried so far?
Have you swapped boxes for him?
Does he get turn out and what is he like - if good any chance he can go out 24/7 in short term?


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## PooJay (30 November 2011)

omg that's horrible, he's such a beautiful horse too - my absolute favourite of all the horses i've seen on here. 

I really hope you sort it out, diet would be my first port of call as well but other than that i have no other advice to give. 

Roger Hatch at Trinity Consultants may be able to help, he's a nutritionist and knows all symptoms of all diet issues and may be able to shed some light on it. He's so helpful, even if he can't offer any light on the situation i know he'd do his best to advise and maybe rule things out for you. 

Healing vibes and best wishes for you!!! xxxx


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## mtj (30 November 2011)

This is probably of no help but here goes.

Whilst my warmblood and his late buddy were living at home, they could both suddenly go from being chilled foodies to neurotic and just snatching at hay.  This state would last for several hours.

I did see them staring out of their backdoors (pens attached to back of stable) but couldn't figure out the problem.

Have recently discovered that neighbours keep (or kept - another neighbour had a go at them when he found a shot turtle dove in his garden) an airgun by their backdoor so they could take potshots at wildlife on their veg garden.  

I had no idea, but it now makes sense.

Good luck with your horse.


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## Ali16 (30 November 2011)

Thanks so much for all the replies.

Have tried a different stable - no change, in fact made him worse.

He is the same consistently, in, out, handling etc.

Had a full MOT, eyes breathing etc all OK. 

He has reduced feed/haylage/hay on his own - not eating at all! Have tried to tempt him with warm mash etc, but nothing will settle him enough to pay attention to it.

No change in his work at all. Doing all the same things as usual, hacking nicely, no more or less spooking, work was still great yesterday.


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## mtj (30 November 2011)

Given the weather is now starting to change, have you checked for any sign of rats?

I do know a horse that became a very poor eater due to rats geting into the stable.


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## B-B (30 November 2011)

Ulcers can definitely cause this type of behaviour


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## Ali16 (30 November 2011)

PooJay said:



			omg that's horrible, he's such a beautiful horse too - my absolute favourite of all the horses i've seen on here. 

I really hope you sort it out, diet would be my first port of call as well but other than that i have no other advice to give. 

Roger Hatch at Trinity Consultants may be able to help, he's a nutritionist and knows all symptoms of all diet issues and may be able to shed some light on it. He's so helpful, even if he can't offer any light on the situation i know he'd do his best to advise and maybe rule things out for you. 

Healing vibes and best wishes for you!!! xxxx
		
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Thanks PooJay - I will get in contact with Roger Hatch. 

mtj - I would like to think that there is no way that rats/mice can get into our bins as they are metal, tall and away from the walls. Unless they are getting in at the source ( you would like to think not!) I don't think there is any way that rats could get to our feed. They'd be pretty brave rats too with all our cats and dogs patrolling.


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## bordermare (30 November 2011)

B-B said:



			Ulcers can definitely cause this type of behaviour
		
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second this.


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## Ali16 (30 November 2011)

B-B said:



			Ulcers can definitely cause this type of behaviour
		
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This was one of my thoughts too. We have dealt with horses with ulcers before, and we did think that he might have ulcers about two years ago when he dropped off significantly in the summer. He was then put onto Gastroguard. So you'd like to think he doesn't have ulcers.


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## Mickyjoe (30 November 2011)

Do you have an electric fencer earthing anywhere near? Or is the control box near his stable? Could it be something like that?


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## Santa_Claus (30 November 2011)

i was going to say was his vision checked by the vet but you have said later it was. 

I hope you get to the root of the problem soon. 

My only other suggestion would relate to if he is better outdoors? My pony at he age of 15 ish very suddenly (as in basically overnight) became claustaphobic to point trying to force himself out through door/walls, we think the trigger was being kept in once when the hunt passed close by and he wound himself up hearing the horn. He now cannot be left in a stable unless sharing one with a friend (that apparently is fine despite being crowded!) as even if another pony in stable next door he still goes nuts. For the last 7 years he has lived out 24/7 365 days a year because of it and is as happy as Larry like that!


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## Ali16 (30 November 2011)

Mickyjoe said:



			Do you have an electric fencer earthing anywhere near? Or is the control box near his stable? Could it be something like that?
		
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Nope - all electrics are away from his box at the other end of the yard. His box is nowhere near fields.

He was the same when we tried putting him in another box too.


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## trick123 (30 November 2011)

he's not getting an electric shock off something?


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## hellspells (30 November 2011)

I have nothing useful to add except to second trinty consultants. They really have been fabulous with our yard of "special" horses. 

I hope you get to the bottom of it.


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## Sarah_Jane (30 November 2011)

Poor you woud it be worth trying to lightly sedate him i.e. a few acp tablets just to see if you can break the cycle of stress?


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## mtj (30 November 2011)

The rat problem did come as a surprise.  it was just one horse, and it is a smart yard.  Horse was very picky about food, had lots of bloods and caused lots of worry. Yard did and  does have various rodent control methods including cats.

Rather than attack the feed, the rats were getting into the stable (brick, with a non drafty door).  Horse had forage in haybar and hardfeed in bucket.

Appears it had been bitten on nose and then refused to eat anywhere the rats could get to.
Horse now has nets and eating normally.


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## Ali16 (30 November 2011)

Sarah_Jane said:



			Poor you woud it be worth trying to lightly sedate him i.e. a few acp tablets just to see if you can break the cycle of stress?
		
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Thanks Sarah_Jane - I did give him some Sedalin last night in the end, after another horse made a noise at about 1am and set him off. He's right outside our bedroom window so can keep a close eye on him (although each time he whinnies it's like having him right inside our house!). It did do the trick to settle him so we could get a couple of hours sleep, but it began all over again at 6am.


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## meardsall_millie (30 November 2011)

Could he have seen/heard something in the distance that he's getting himself worked up about? 

We rarely get the Hunt near us but if they do come close enough for either of mine to see or hear them, they can be wound up for days afterwards?


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## YasandCrystal (30 November 2011)

mtj said:



			Given the weather is now starting to change, have you checked for any sign of rats?

I do know a horse that became a very poor eater due to rats geting into the stable.
		
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I second this idea. I have known a rat in the stable to really freak a horse out.

Don't shoot me down but have you considered getting a communication done with him ? £35 that's what Jackie Weaver charged and it was very accurate and revealing whether you believe in it or not is immaterial if it helps!!


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## Amymay (30 November 2011)

Ali16 said:



			Thanks Sarah_Jane - I did give him some Sedalin last night in the end, after another horse made a noise at about 1am and set him off. He's right outside our bedroom window so can keep a close eye on him (although each time he whinnies it's like having him right inside our house!). It did do the trick to settle him so we could get a couple of hours sleep, but it began all over again at 6am.
		
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One last shot - Hormones??

He almost sounds like a mare who's experiencing a severe season.....


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## Rossifoal1 (30 November 2011)

The hunt came past my friends yard the other day whilst it was in the stable, the way the yard is set up meant the passed no more than 30 metres away from the stables and it has sent her mare very strange.


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## Mickyjoe (30 November 2011)

Could something be affecting his hearing? Did vet check his ears? Personally I don't think it sounds like ulcers, it's escalated too fast for that. My gut feeling is still to do with some sort of electrical or static charge or some sort of radio waves. Are other horses stabled in the same yard?


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## Ali16 (30 November 2011)

YasandCrystal said:



			I second this idea. I have known a rat in the stable to really freak a horse out.

Don't shoot me down but have you considered getting a communication done with him ? £35 that's what Jackie Weaver charged and it was very accurate and revealing whether you believe in it or not is immaterial if it helps!!
		
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I have not seen any rats, but will check around his box thoroughly to ensure there's no where they could be getting in. Obviously we can't ensure there there is no spillage of feed in the stables, but usually he's SO greedy that I'm not sure a rat would get a look in! 

Thinking about it though, the last yard we were at there was a massive rat problem when we moved in, we quickly dealt with it, but he did not display anything like what he's doing now. Perhaps he _could _have been bitten? Doesn't explain why he's so unsettled everywhere else though...

Re the communication - if the vet comes back with nothing, we're literally willing to try anything. Will definately bear it in mind - thanks.


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## Ali16 (30 November 2011)

Mickyjoe said:



			Could something be affecting his hearing? Did vet check his ears? Personally I don't think it sounds like ulcers, it's escalated too fast for that. My gut feeling is still to do with some sort of electrical or static charge or some sort of radio waves. Are other horses stabled in the same yard?
		
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We have 25 horses on our yard. All of which are still behaving normally! If vet comes back with nothing, will definately investigate this.

Hearing all OK as far as we know, nothing untoward in or around his ears, not inflamed etc - full MOT done.


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## Mickyjoe (30 November 2011)

Crikey, no wonder you are stumped. I really hope you get to the bottom of it soon. Sounds very upsetting.


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## Ali16 (30 November 2011)

amymay said:



			One last shot - Hormones??

He almost sounds like a mare who's experiencing a severe season.....
		
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He's definately much worse than any mare I've ever experienced!! 

Imbalances would show up in the bloods, so will wait for vet's conclusion... 

We were thinking maybe an enzyme imbalance, which again would show up in bloods, so will wait to hear.


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## quizzie (30 November 2011)

He sounds a bit "hyperaesthetic", in other words, he is reacting much more to certain stimuli (eg noise) than would normally be expected.

Something might show up on the bloods (esp.liver?), but also, I would be inclined to keep him off the field, as some plants can cause this.  Especially as we have had a very odd growing season this year, & plants are still actively growing. Maybe search your fields for unusual weeds/hedgerow plants, especially in wetter areas.


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## Ali16 (30 November 2011)

quizzie said:



			He sounds a bit "hyperaesthetic", in other words, he is reacting much more to certain stimuli (eg noise) than would normally be expected.

Something might show up on the bloods (esp.liver?), but also, I would be inclined to keep him off the field, as some plants can cause this.  Especially as we have had a very odd growing season this year, & plants are still actively growing. Maybe search your fields for unusual weeds/hedgerow plants, especially in wetter areas.
		
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Yes - that's definately how it started, with him reacting to movement and noise quite dramatically. 

We have searched the field in question with a fine tooth comb and found nothing that I would have thought odd. He has no access to hedgerows/trees etc - our grass is very rich but he has never had a issue with it before. But definately something to think about.

I wish they'd hurry up with the blimin bloods!! (Just called them - nothing back yet).


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## Goldenstar (30 November 2011)

I was thinking ulcers too. Ask the vet, the causes of ulcers are complicated and not fully understood it might be worth trying gastroguard If it's ulcers it should settle quickly once you start it is an expensive drug though.


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## Ali16 (30 November 2011)

Goldenstar said:



			I was thinking ulcers too. Ask the vet, the causes of ulcers are complicated and not fully understood it might be worth trying gastroguard If it's ulcers it should settle quickly once you start it is an expensive drug though.
		
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Thanks - As previously mentioned he was investigated for ulcers two years ago, found to be clear, but with his competition program getting busier we put put him on Gastrguard just to be safe. He's been on it for over two years now, so hopefully not ulcers.


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## Kraft (30 November 2011)

I am really sorry to hear of your sad news :-(

I know lots of people have said this but my stable is on the end of a row, my horse is on shavings and now the weather is getting colder i seem to have a rat or mouse getting in...i can tell as in one corner you can see where the rat (s) have been making a tunnel :-(.

My horse dosn't seem to be bothered but the horse i had before did not like it one bit!!! To a point where he did not go near that corner of the stable.

Do you deep litter? Maybe try lifting all his bed up and seeing if there are any unwanted rats living or using it as a tunnel to get around in?

Just a thought - i hope everything works out.


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## measles (30 November 2011)

I haven't read all of the responses but just wanted to say I do hope you get to the bottom of it very soon as I can understand your concern.


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## Ali16 (30 November 2011)

Kraft said:



			I am really sorry to hear of your sad news :-(

I know lots of people have said this but my stable is on the end of a row, my horse is on shavings and now the weather is getting colder i seem to have a rat or mouse getting in...i can tell as in one corner you can see where the rat (s) have been making a tunnel :-(.

My horse dosn't seem to be bothered but the horse i had before did not like it one bit!!! To a point where he did not go near that corner of the stable.

Do you deep litter? Maybe try lifting all his bed up and seeing if there are any unwanted rats living or using it as a tunnel to get around in?

Just a thought - i hope everything works out.
		
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Thank you very much - I asked the OH to check the stable earlier and he just called to say he couldn't find any sign of possible entry for rats. I don't think they could squeeze themselves under the door as we have rubber matting that's obviously slightly higher than the bottom of the door. 

No - we clean out the beds entirely each day, banks 'n' all (I worked on a yard that had rats nesting in the banks and it grossed me out so much that I insist that all banks are taken down each day).


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## luce1 (30 November 2011)

Sorry to hear about your horse and really hope you get to the bottom of it... I know horses can change there behaviour with the weather and different seasons etc, but your case sounds a bit extreme. 
I wish you all the best and hope you get some answers with the blood xx


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## Ali16 (30 November 2011)

measles said:



			I haven't read all of the responses but just wanted to say I do hope you get to the bottom of it very soon as I can understand your concern.
		
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Thank you very much. I'm off my food now too, let alone the b***dy horse!

Will post as soon as we get results from vet. So grateful for all the responses.


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## SpottedCat (30 November 2011)

The only other thing I can possibly think of, is you haven't started a new bag of feed have you? If so, I'd be checking very carefully that the manufacturers haven't changed the formulation - known this to send a horse loopy before now and the feed was the last thing checked as the brand etc hadn't been changed!


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## Ali16 (30 November 2011)

SpottedCat said:



			The only other thing I can possibly think of, is you haven't started a new bag of feed have you? If so, I'd be checking very carefully that the manufacturers haven't changed the formulation - known this to send a horse loopy before now and the feed was the last thing checked as the brand etc hadn't been changed!
		
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We use a bag of feed per day on our yard (20+ horses and all!) will check with Sarecen, although our rep did promise to inform us of any changes... Will call her now. Thanks!


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## glenruby (30 November 2011)

About ten yrs ago we had something solar with a promising showjumper. He would panic in the stable by himself, kicking out rearing pawing throwing his head. Became entirely dangerous to handle- ended up not leaving his stable for 2 myths other than to visit vets. Every test agonable done. By ruling out came to dx of brain tumour and horse major was to be pts. Last vet suggested trying treaent for ear mites. Hey presto horse cured! He went on to compete at grand prix level but never got over his head shyness and after every holiday it would take 6 weeks to get him used to taking a bridle again. His behaviour in the stable really was dramatic but was fine to ride as long as we could tack him up. More recently I have heard thee have been a number of cases of horses fretting, kicking out etc for no apparent reason around the south midlands but have not heard what has been suggested to be the cause. Hope it is something as simple with your guy.


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## mik (30 November 2011)

Hi, I am sorry what a nightmare, hopefully the blood work will help give you a cause.
He is clearly over reacting to sound stimuli no? How about trying the radio on at least  in the stable?  Or even ear covering? Best of luck. I hope you can sort this out soon.


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## squiz22 (30 November 2011)

Hi,

I am sorry to hear about your news. I wouldn't normally suggest this as I am super skeptical but my super skeptical friend has had some success with a horse reader type woman. 
We both met up at the weekend and spent hours discussing the findings and how on earth she knew what she did. My friend has also noted a change in her horses behaviour since then too (for the better!). She said she tried to not even look the woman in the eye in case she gave things away with her facial expressions and sat making notes about everything she said.. it was quite bizarre what she was saying and I actually thought I may give it a try.
She told her all sorts of information about the horse, what he was feeling, reasons for his anxiety etc and also what had happened in the past.

The lady was named something Davenport - I'll try and find out her name.. Karen perhaps? 

I hope you get to the bottom of it though.. sounds horrible.


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## Ali16 (30 November 2011)

glenruby - Thanks for that - I really hope it's something simple too. 

mik - Yes, noise does seem to be one of the main causes, I think we might try to put ear covers on him tonight (after sedation) and then we'll hopefully we'll get some sleep!

squiz22 - If the bloods come back clear we'll definately be up for trying anything, so thank you


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## mik (30 November 2011)

Oh I do feel for you. Best of luck.


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## Luci07 (30 November 2011)

how awful for you - just on a sideline, if your horse is starting to look like he won't drink, check with your vet if you can give him sugarbeet water. It was the only thing we could get my horse to drink when he was poorly. I know there may be a question mark as you are trying to rule out any changes but it really does do the trick for poorly horses that won't drink.


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## charlie76 (30 November 2011)

Hi, If he is being noise sensitive than I can recommend the following: 
Stuff ears with cotton wool and put a ear veil ( like SJ) over the top. I have to do this for my horse in the lorry as he freaks when the partions make a noise ( I know- stupid creature) with this on he is fine.


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## YasandCrystal (30 November 2011)

How about leaving a radio on all night for some background noise? It may help and that new apple flavoued water quencher stuff is reputed to make any horse drink, so may be worth buying a few sachets.


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## Ali16 (30 November 2011)

Luci07 - He is still drinking at the moment, but I will ask the vet if we can do this just in case he stops. Thanks. We have been adding apple flavoured elecrolytes to his water (this is what we usually do on a hot day/he's worked hard/been competing - so nothing new to him).

charlie76 - Thanks, I don't think even with sedation we would be able to put cotton wool in his ears atm, he's just ridiculous to handle. But we will try the ear covers tonight after he has been sedated slightly so see if it makes a difference.


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## charlie76 (30 November 2011)

Hmmm, what a nightmare. We did have a horse local to us that went mad for know known reason. I will PM you.


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## YasandCrystal (30 November 2011)

Could you get a reiki practitioner out? I suggest that as you say that in this state the horse is not easy to handle, so a practitioner who has done reiki 2nd degree can send energy from afar - so stand at the stable door.  Again - rather a longshot, but horses do love reiki and it may just help. You could also try hanging a lavender oil soaked rag in the stable for calming. I have used all these methods for the stressy aggressive WB I own and they all helped to a degree.


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## *Maddy&Occhi* (30 November 2011)

So sorry to hear about your horse. I can imagine it being extremely distressing for you 

Really hope you get to the bottom of the problem, and hopefully its only something really simple.

Good luck and keep us posted

xx


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## Ali16 (30 November 2011)

*Maddy&Occhi* said:



			So sorry to hear about your horse. I can imagine it being extremely distressing for you 

Really hope you get to the bottom of the problem, and hopefully its only something really simple.

Good luck and keep us posted

xx
		
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Thank you very much. Will definately keep everyone posted.


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## TheMule (30 November 2011)

Had one with a very similar array of odd symptoms, turned out he had perforated an ear drum and it made him excetionally noise sensitive. He had to go to the clinic as he colicked and the vet eventually noticed a weird hissing noise coming from his ears and, after more investigation and much consulting experts, declared the diagnosis as very rare!
Horse was very distressed for a week or so then settled but was always noise sensitive afterwards and wore ear muffs in comps as vet wrote him a note


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## PooJay (30 November 2011)

TheMule said:



			wore ear muffs in comps as vet wrote him a note
		
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lol  sorry i know it's not a funny subject but that really tickled me!


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## camilla4 (30 November 2011)

Haven't had time to read all replies so many apologies if this has already been suggested:  have you had his eyes checked?


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## mik (30 November 2011)

Did the blood work come back yet? Keep us posted eh hope the ear muffs help tonight.


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## Ali16 (30 November 2011)

PooJay said:



			lol  sorry i know it's not a funny subject but that really tickled me! 

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You're excused! Made me giggle too!

Yes - everything checked, eyes, ears etc. He has started eating again and is relatively quiet this evening, so slight improvement on last night. Phew!


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## mik (30 November 2011)

Good news then if he seems more settled. Fingers crossed.


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## Maddie2412 (30 November 2011)

Ali16 said:



			You're excused! Made me giggle too!

Yes - everything checked, eyes, ears etc. He has started eating again and is relatively quiet this evening, so slight improvement on last night. Phew!
		
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fingers crossed its road to recovery may have been a single incident that sparked this and finally getting over it would highly recommend the nuumed ear plugs, saving grace on a foul tb i used to ride!


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## Goldenstar (30 November 2011)

Is he in work ( I have not read the whole thread) I only ask as my dressage monster was weird during his layoff due to a minor problem while turned out fine came in daily with everyone else would paw if he saw you carrying tack but otherwise normal.
When we started stabling at night as he would have been left on his own in the field as everyone else was in it all went badly pear shaped kicked the stable to bits all bedding out every day bedding all dragged back and up back wall acting like he had never been handled crazy stuff my groom and I exhausted and stressed .
Brought him back to light work early ,over a few days he went back to normal.Really strange behaviour .


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## Britestar (30 November 2011)

A friend of mines horse has displayed similar symptoms for the past 2 1/2 weeks. In fact she has been hopitalised at an equine clinic for 2 weeks now as they try to find out what is wrong. Location of clinic and home are too far apart to bring her home, But at least they can watch the progress on a daily basis.

She is sensitive to noise, jumping and nervous. At this point they are waiting on blood results from the USA, and today I believe a consultant from one of the Vet schools came to examine her. 

If they have any news I'll let you know.


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## swellhillcottage (30 November 2011)

Gosh that Sounds worrying - Could it have any thing to do with the high winds we have been having  over the last few days?  It certainly upsets my big older fella - he goes off his food  and shouts a lot and can be quite tricky to ride and handle. 

Good luck it gets sorted .


S xxx


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## floradora09 (30 November 2011)

Oh god Ali poor you!  Sounds horrible, will keep my fingers crossed for you guys that it's nothing serious. But it does sound like he might be starting to settle again now a bit? 

xxx


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## Ali16 (1 December 2011)

Thanks everyone for your replies...

He was a bit more settled last night, but a total nightmare this morning again. He definately drank last night and ate a small amount (for his size). Still waiting for bloods to come back. It is so uncharacteristic of this horse to be so rude and bargy (usually he's a gem to handle) that I'm totally convinced that there MUST be some kind of chemical imbalance in his blood. 

We have started to slowly strip his food right back to see if one or more of the straights that he's on is causing this odd behaviour and are taking advice from our nutritionist, so hopefully we can rule out his hard feed. Luckily his food isn't particularly complicated (basically oats, barley and chaff. The only suppliments he gets is MSM & glucosamine, Gastrguard and electrolytes) so it shouldn't take too long to see. 

Hopefully the bloods will come back this morning...


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## alwaysbroke (1 December 2011)

Feel so sorry for you and your horse what a horrible time you are having, hope the blood results can shed some light on what is going on and he settles very soon x


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## bounce (1 December 2011)

A really worrying time for you.  I hope the blood results come back soon.

Just a thought, but how long as your horse been on Gastroguard?


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## Ali16 (1 December 2011)

bounce said:



			A really worrying time for you.  I hope the blood results come back soon.

Just a thought, but how long as your horse been on Gastroguard?
		
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Thanks. About 2.5 years now on and off as prescribed by the vet. When he is on his hols and not travelling anywhere he obviosuly comes off it, his feed is cut down and his forage goes up. We also use Ulcergard in conjunction, but since he was ill in summer 2009 we have been so careful about ulcers and gastric condidtions with him. He showed a massively decreased white blood cell count and high levels of acid in his bowels and they couldn't give us a reason for that at the time so it has always been a worry . My poor vet must rue the day he gave us his private mobile number...

Bloods still not back.. can't understand why they are taking so long!


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## Festive_Felicitations (1 December 2011)

How very very worrying! I really hope you can get to the bottom of the problem.

Will keep my fingers crossed for an answer soon.


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## Rueysmum (1 December 2011)

It seems to me as if your horse is extremely worried about something.  Have you had high winds in the last few days i.e. just before he started this behaviour?   

A few years ago we had high winds and the telegraph wires along the road adajacent to the field my two are in were loosened by the wind and kept touching tree branches and giving off loud cracking noises and sparks.  My stressy idiot old TB wasn't affected, but my other "normal" horse went through electric fencing and wasn't himself for days afterwards.  It really worried him.

Do you think something like this could have happened?

I do hope you get to the bottom of it!


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## shortstuff99 (1 December 2011)

Just a really random stab in the dark, is he excessively sweating/weeing/drinking? It MIGHT be cushings as the disease causes high levels of cortisol and adrenaline which therefor causes stress/fear in a sufferer. Has he been blood tested for this? Its probably not but worth checking into as they can show symptoms of sudden behaviour change and not eating.

I really hope you get it sorted! x


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## First Time Mum (1 December 2011)

Hi just a thought but saw you mentioned he was fed oats if your having him in full time at the moment due to problems I personally would want to take these out completely straight away as the amount of energy these produce could be making the situation worse to diagnose if he is doing no work. 

Hope he feels better soon :-(


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## Ali16 (1 December 2011)

Rueysmum - Thanks for the suggestion.. It has been quite windy around us, but we have had worse in the past year and it has not bothered him. Like I say, he is usually the most horizontal horse on the yard. A real pro at keeping new horses calm etc and not rattled by much at all. There are some wires overhead going to our hourse, but not near his box. He also behaves the same in other boxes and outside his box. 

shortstuff99 - Thanks. We are waiting for bloods to come back as I type.. Hopefully any time soon. He's not drinking any more/less than usual, but he does sweat when he's throwing himself around. In ridden (Tuesday last exercised) he was not sweating any more than normal.


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## Ali16 (1 December 2011)

First Time Mum said:



			Hi just a thought but saw you mentioned he was fed oats if your having him in full time at the moment due to problems I personally would want to take these out completely straight away as the amount of energy these produce could be making the situation worse to diagnose if he is doing no work. 

Hope he feels better soon :-(
		
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Thanks for your reply - He is not in full time at the moment, if he was he would be stuck half way over his stable door! We are still trying to stick to his routine as far as possible, the vet even said to continue with ridden work if we can get a bridle on him. He is still going out in his large stallion pen (although he's a gelding - not a stallion - he has a tendency to trash electric fences and try to play with other horses constantly), where he is still a twit but at least he's having a change of scenery, and going on the walker, which he is fine about as he doesn't have a choice but to keep moving! He still whinnies wherever he is though...

We are going on our nutritionist's advice re the feed, who knows the horse well.


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## ester (1 December 2011)

I remembered yesterday about someone on here's bob (the cob) going a bit odd at one point, was still fine to ride but kept staring at things in the distance and not eating, bas being in a high alert state. 

I can't remember why but am sure it was resolved, her old username doesn't seem to be valid though (was bob_rob_and_tiff or similar) so I can't find the thread atm.

eta found them, doesn't sound as similar as I remembered the threads are 

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=329584
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=327648


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## Ali16 (1 December 2011)

Well, bloods came back.....


*Completely negative for anything at all.* They ran every test they could and the pathologist said he looked 'the picture of health' from his bloods.

Funnily enough he has been much better since he was worked late morning. Vet and nutritionist have advised to carry on stripping his feed back to see if that makes a difference so will carry on down that route for now but keep adding electolytes where possible to ensure he's drinking.

Will keep everyone posted on progress with this... Thanks for all your comments and suggestions


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## SpottedCat (1 December 2011)

I haven't used it myself, but I know ElleJS has, have a look at Equi Feast's products - that could help even if it doesn't bring you any closer to finding a cause?


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## JGC (1 December 2011)

Good luck with finding a solution. I bet you wish there'd been something on the bloods cause at least you'd have an answer ... I really hope he gets better soon. I'll keep my fingers crossed.


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## meerkat 2 (1 December 2011)

Is he on haulage ? I have a mare who is similar at the moment I upped her haylage (she was getting half and half till about a  month ago) and she has been an absolute nightmare since Monday , the farrier couldn't put her back shoes on she was really kicking out and completely sweated up , she won't stand still while I tack up and even after work while standing in wash box to be  untacked is just so wired and hyper it's not like her . She had an episode like this at the beginning of the year so put her on regumate and normal hay and she has been ok till now .I stopped haylage yesterday and she is a bit better today she also has had uvietis for 2 years so not sure how much this affects her but I think it's the haylage so I hope over the next week she will go back to normal. So I do really know what you are going through it's extremely stressful not knowing what is upsetting your horse . Hope you find out what is going on.


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## cptrayes (1 December 2011)

He looks  just like mine!

He's on glucosamine/MSM/omeprazole just like mine. He behaves just like mine.  It sounds to me like he may be in pain somewhere and he can ignore it when he is ridden but not when left to his own devices. Mine's like that too. 

If he was mine I would be scoping him for reoccurrence of the ulcers. If you've already done that, sorry, I haven't read all 9 pages.

I hope you sort it soon for both your sakes.


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## MrsMozart (1 December 2011)

Oh hun! How scary and horrible.

This is going to sound barking mad, so apologies in advance... There a James Herriot book, when a cow (I think) was acting in a startled and stressed manner. If I remember right, it turned out to be lead poisoning.

As I said, barking mad and probably totally stupid, but maybe worth a question to the vet (blame mad person on forum!).

Hope you find get to the root/a fix very, very soon.


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## Ali16 (2 December 2011)

Quick update... 

He is a little better - eating his haylage like normal, however, still just picking at his feed, even though his feed is now tiny. 

TPR are still fluctuating when he is stressing but were normal when he was resting last night and gums normal colour, so no real signs of pain at the moment. 

SpottedCat - Thank you, will look into it.

meerkat 2 - Yes, he is on haylage, always has been since he we bought him at 2yrs, so in 11 yrs we have not had an issue with it, but are not discounting it...

Santa Paws - Thanks, yes, this is a concern, even though he did not actually have ulcers in the first place, it was more of a precautionary measure than anything, as prescribed by the vet due to his travel and competition schedule. We are going to see if the diet change works at all and then if not, in a couple of weeks we will go back to the vets for him to be scoped. Vet is not convinced that he is in pain though.

MrsMozartletoe - Thanks, poisoning was definately a concern, but now that the bloods have come back clear, we can rule it out. 

He is slowly changing over to a low sugar diet and from haylage to soaked hay. He is not exactly lacking in condition at the moment and is generally a good doer so I think he'll be OK to carry on working through it. The vet has told us to try and keep him to his routine as far as possible.


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## mik (2 December 2011)

Well it sounds like you are nearly there, glad he is at least eating. Best of luck.


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## Festive_Felicitations (2 December 2011)

How annoying! (that the bloods came back blank)

I hope he continues to improve and settles down soon.


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## cptrayes (2 December 2011)

There is a problem with intermittent use of omeprazole/Gastroguard. When you stop it, you can get "bounceback" where acid levels return to a higher point than they were before they were suppressed.

Does the timing of stopping the omeprazole because he is not competing in winter fit with what you are seeing? Mine is also on it as a preventative, but I leave him on it full time or he simply reverts to a weaving neurotic nutcase however slowly I wean him back off it. 

It not only suppresses acid but it has a sedative effect on the gut. Removing that might would give you behavioural signs of low grade colic, without the colic itself,  and that sounds to me as if it might be a possibility? Can you put him back on the omeprazole if he is not currently on it, and see what happens??


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## Ali16 (2 December 2011)

Santa Paws said:



			There is a problem with intermittent use of omeprazole/Gastroguard. When you stop it, you can get "bounceback" where acid levels return to a higher point than they were before they were suppressed.

Does the timing of stopping the omeprazole because he is not competing in winter fit with what you are seeing? Mine is also on it as a preventative, but I leave him on it full time or he simply reverts to a weaving neurotic nutcase however slowly I wean him back off it. 

It not only suppresses acid but it has a sedative effect on the gut. Removing that might would give you behavioural signs of low grade colic, without the colic itself,  and that sounds to me as if it might be a possibility? Can you put him back on the omeprazole if he is not currently on it, and see what happens??
		
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That's the thing... he is on it at the moment. Given his history (ulcers were never found, but a high acid level in his bowels was) and the fact that he has been out competing recently - he's not on hols at the moment (he goes on hols after the summer and winter nationals for two weeks at a time) - he is on Gastroguard at the moment, towards the end of a 28 day treatment. This is the reason that the vet wants to monitor his through the diet change and then scope in a couple of weeks if things don't improve.


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## stimpy (2 December 2011)

Another thing to throw in the pot...

My TB went through a dramatic behaviour change 4 years ago, he was getting so stressed and silly in his stable he kept banging his head and cutting his eye, nose etc.  His stress seemed to manifest mostly in his head, flinging it about, head shaking etc but he got so agitated that he would fling himself on the floor and thrash about like he was colicing.  We initially suspected teeth but in the end it turned out that he had a blood tumors in his jaw bone.  His jaw bone was literally being broken apart from the inside.  The vet thought he had put up with it stoically for as long as he could but then the extreme pain has just sent him into total meltdown.

He made a full recovery but it was a difficult diagnosis as there was no swelling or heat, in fact no external indicators at all.  Thankfully my vet got a hunch that it was blood tumors even though he had never seen it in bone before, only soft tissue.  An xray showed decreased density of the jaw bone and once we got to that point a bone biopsy confirmed it.

I don't know that this is of any value, just another case of acute behaviour change I guess.

I really hope your boy continues to improve.


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## cptrayes (2 December 2011)

Ali16 said:



			That's the thing... he is on it at the moment. Given his history (ulcers were never found, but a high acid level in his bowels was) and the fact that he has been out competing recently - he's not on hols at the moment (he goes on hols after the summer and winter nationals for two weeks at a time) - he is on Gastroguard at the moment, towards the end of a 28 day treatment. This is the reason that the vet wants to monitor his through the diet change and then scope in a couple of weeks if things don't improve.
		
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Oh stuff! That rules that out then. I'm out of ideas now


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