# Possible debate - is stabling 24/7 cruel?



## Starbucks (31 October 2007)

Ours are in most of the time now, they get to play maybe once a week but they want to come in after half an hour because the field is so rubbish! 
	
	
		
		
	


	





So, what are your opinions on keeping horses like this?


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## Chex (31 October 2007)

I'm not a fan, its not something I would do. Tbh I think horses are just really adaptable - if they're kept in then they want in after being turned out for only a short while, if they're kept out they don't like being kept in, etc.


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## conniegirl (31 October 2007)

yes i think it is. Horses need time out to stretch thier muscles, gallope round and generaly bee horses with other horses. Playing, mutual grooming, haveing a good buck in the field, relaxing. Its not good for thier psyce to be in 24/7, they dont get chance to just be a horse.


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## reddie (31 October 2007)

I prefer to keep my horse out as much as possible.  I think most horses will adapt to being out.  Mine wasn't used to it at first as he had been an ex-racer and then was kept in alot by his previous owner.  He took a few months to get really used to it and didn't know how to interact with the other horses in the field.  now he loves it, and has lots of friends.  I think if they are stabled 24/7 you can get alot of health and behaviour probs unless you are able to give them lots of stimulation etc


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## clipclop (31 October 2007)

You have to admit, you couldn't be further from nature by stabling them 24/7?

For me personally, I think it is cruel for a majority of horses. I do know of several horses who are conditioned/love being in their stable.

Some people have very little choice in yards and so get stuck with 24/7 stabling.

For me personally, I couldn't do it. Horses are animals that travel many miles in a day, they are herd animals and they like to mutual groom etc etc. I don't need to tell you that, you know all that stuff already or you wouldn't  have posted this.


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## Starbucks (31 October 2007)

Yea I totally agree, but unfortunately we don't live in ideal world do we!   
	
	
		
		
	


	





My horses live at home, and the fact is that we don't have grazing in the winter and they seem to cope fine.


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## Christmas_Kate (31 October 2007)

Keeping them in 24/7 is fine IMO, so long as they have daily exercise. Afterall Hunters are usually in 24/7, ridden for a good hour or two daily, and most have a good sized stable. Certainally the ones I know show no ill effects and positivley look foward to coming in in August. 
Last winter we had quite a bad time for turnout, and ponio ended up staying in sometimes. Either it was very wet (and his hooves werent so great at the time)  or it was too icy to get out of the yard safely, or there was frost (won;'t turn him out on frost due to risk of Lami). In those times he was walked out when possible (and safe), and seemed fine with it. 

I did know of someone who just left her horse stabled 24/7 and never exercised him or let him out because she didnt have time. That's cruel IMO. We were facing the same possible predicament with OH changing hours (which would have lost me the time i usually use to turn out or exercise daily) so we advertised ponio for sale right away because I didnt feel it fair on ponio to be standing in for too long.


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## clipclop (31 October 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
Yea I totally agree, but unfortunately we don't live in ideal world do we!   
	
	
		
		
	


	





My horses live at home, and the fact is that we don't have grazing in the winter and they seem to cope fine. 

[/ QUOTE ]

I am sure you do the very best by them. Giving them plenty of exercise and attention. 
	
	
		
		
	


	





I still couldn't do it though. lol


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## prose (31 October 2007)

I've ridden a few horses from Claremont Academy, which was (until last April) the last remaining stable in Manhattan.

Basically, you hired a horse for an hour and rode it on one of the bridlepaths in Central Park. Of the six horses I rode, all were impeccably schooled, responsive, fit and seemed happy. 

But I was never truly comfortable with the set-up, and once I discovered  this place, I switched.


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## Tia (1 November 2007)

Well I'm guessing that you exercise them at least a couple of hours every day?  I guess horses kept like this for years would likely get used to it and so long as they are getting out every day to stretch their legs and have a loosen-off then I wouldn't say it was cruel, just not preferable.  Horses who are stabled 24 hours a day who spend days on end stuck in that stable.....yes I think that is mental cruelty to do this to an animal such as this.

I would be very sad to see any of my horses end up being stabled 24/7.  I am given immense enjoyment all day long, watching my lot frolicking and running around all day.  My guys love to be out, they love to play and they enjoy their work.

Horses who are worked a number of hours a day might be content to live in a stable 24/7 I suppose, but this isn't something I would ever consider; and silly as it may sound to some people, I'd never sell any of my horses to someone who planned to stable them 24/7.  My lot would hate it - they have not grown up in that type of environment and I firmly believe they would become thoroughly depressed at that sort of life.


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## PapaFrita (1 November 2007)

Not ideal, but not cruel assuming horses are out and getting a decent amount of exercise every day.
Of course some horses are more suited to being stabled than others.


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## piebaldsparkle (1 November 2007)

Not ideal obviously, but grazing/ground condition may be such that it would be worst for the horse to be turned out.  I am fortunate that most of the time I have access to grazing, however last year there were a few days I choose to leave Sparks in to stop her patch getting too poached as it was so wet, even the sand soil at the yard couldn't drain fast enough.  Provided they have adequate exercise and stimulation then I don't believe is a problem.


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## pottamus (1 November 2007)

I feel that if your horses are at home and it is down to a grazing (lack of) issue then you either need to manage your grazing better so that you do have enough for the winter or you have too many horses for the grazing available.
Even having some turn out would be better than none. I am afraid I do not agree with all this sillyness over ground getting messed up in winter, heaven forbid...it is grass and grows back in spring if left to rest properly. My horse trashed some of his paddock the first winter I had him but with a bit of seed, harrowing, rain and shine it was fully recovered and grazable by the following autumn. It can be done.
P.S this may be a bit blunt but it is an open forum and we are entitled to our opinions...before the flack starts!


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## spitchwick (1 November 2007)

Horses are naturally herd animals, and travel long distances, I have to agree with the folks who say that out is definately preferable, all mine are happiest out 24/7. I only bring them in in at night the worst of the weather, and that's to make me feel better, not them.


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## Baileysno1 (1 November 2007)

During the floods and last winter my horses only got out 4 days a week for half a day if they were lucky, on the other days I turned them out in the morning in the sand arena together for a buck and a roll then rode in the evening, they were stressed and I was stressed trying to muck 2 out twice a day and ride 2, I just couldn't bear them in for such prolonged periods, hence we moved yards with all year grazing, if I had my own place and no suitable grazing, I think I'd create a sufaced area perhaps woodchip, so the horses could eat their hay outside together and I wouldn't have to worry about wrecking my grazing.


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## Patches (1 November 2007)

Alot of yards still operate this type of "lining up" policy, come the end of October. (I say lining up, because that's the term we use to describe when we go from summer grazing to having our cows winter housed).

I always thought it was originally more common on hunting yards. Horses were exercised hard daily but remained in the stable where their feed was carefully monitored to maintain stamina and fitness on the hunting field. I wouldn't think those horses would find it so boring to be in as they were well worked daily.

Today's leisure horses aren't all ridden daily, and when they are it could just be a gentle stroll out for less than an hour. I'd hate to think my horses were stuck in for months.

I keep mine at home, so it's not an issue for me. However, if I had them on livery they would have to go somewhere that offered 365 day turnout.


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## samp (1 November 2007)

My horse suffers from mud fever and our turnout is literally a bog. Last year she was in End Dec to End March, she got to go in the school on her own when I mucked out, then again later with my friends horse and then she was exercised. She was more than happy with this. If the ground is ok she'd be out more but no amount or prevention stopped the mud fever and she was happier in. 

Before I had her she was in 24/7 and rarely ridden so I think she's pleased for some freedom and adlib haylage. She was a serious wood chewer before I had her and she rarely considers this now


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## Baggybreeches (1 November 2007)

I currently have 3 horses at home, and because of poor drainage I turnd half of my 1.5 acres into a sand menage. In the summer when its dry they go out on the field part and in the winter they are turned out in the menage, with hay. I try to leave them out for as long as possible, most days they are out for at least 8 hours, if the weather is crappy they go out for half a day. It is hard work, but I poo pick every day so the menage doesnt become full of poo, and the hay is kept at one end, so for the sake of making a bit of mess I lose 2 metres of menage, but sooner that than bored stabled horses.  I wouldnt be thrilled about having to keep a horses in 24/7.


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## Grey_Arab (1 November 2007)

I think it depends from horse to horse, some can't stand being out 24/7 (my boy for one) and will just stand at the gate, which kinda defeats the object of being out to stretch their legs. We have no onsite turnout during the winter, there is a 30 acres feild a 10 min wlak away that we can use, so my boy gets every Sunday afternoon out during teh winter so he can have a proper role. All the other horses don't seem to suffer...


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## RachelB (1 November 2007)

I agree that there are circumstances (horse health related, or issues with lack of grazing) in which it really cannot be done any other way, however I also agree that it isn't natural and should be avoided where possible. At my yard our horses are out overnight (about 14 hours) in summer, then I can't understand why YO brings hers in for the winter and puts them out in the day for only 5/6 hours. We certainly don't have a lack of grazing! My share horse is out for about 8 hours, and fair enough when the mud comes she'll be in for longer to save the ground, but right now it's not necessary to stable her for that long IMO. My friend has to keep her German TB stabled as he was never turned out in his early years (they just don't turn out where he came from, it's not the "done thing"). She turns him out in the tiniest paddock for as long as he'll stay settled, which is usually about 20-30 minutes a day. Put him in a bigger paddock, or leave him out longer, and he will do his best to attempt suicide. It's just not practical or safe to leave him out, so she doesn't.
It's all about compromising, if it were a choice between having a horse stabled a lot of the time and well-cared for, or not having a horse at all, I know which one I'd choose.


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## kerilli (1 November 2007)

i personally don't like horses being kept this way. one of mine was kept in one winter while i was doing A levels, and the yard didn't allow winter turnout. she never behaved that badly ever, before or since... she was bucking grooms off every day. 
horses kept out do not weave, crib-bite, wind-suck, etc - these are all symptoms, not bad habits.
i happily let my horses trash parts of their fields every winter. they don't get to trash the whole thing, and i'm realistic that there'll be nothing but mud by next summer, but they can amble around, play, groom each other, snooze in the shelter, roll in the mud, scoff the hay, stand around, snooze... they have a lot of choices, which stabled horses do not.
sorry, but i wouldn't be happy keeping my horses in all winter. at my last place, with clay fields, if it was really wet and they had to be in for a while i used to let them out in the arena in batches to kick up, play, roll, etc, for hours. didn't do the arena much good, and was more work for me, but kept them happier.


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## GinaGem (1 November 2007)

I prefer my horses out a much as possible and i would generally only keep them in 24/7 if advised by a vet.  In the winter they come in over night but during the spring/summer/autum they just come in for a few hours to have breakfast and be ridden.  If the weather is really nasty we will sometimes leave the stables open and they can choose if they want shelter or not.  Luckily we keep them at home so we can do what we like.  Our fields do get trashed in the winter but when we run out of grass we put piles of hay out and by the spring the fields recover fine.


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## muddy_grey (1 November 2007)

I spent many years at a yard with limited winter grazing.  This was not the fault of the lady running the yard.  The Owner who was not involved would not let the majority of fields be used in the winter.  The horses went out for half a day once a week or if they had a friend then two half days together.  Although this wasn't ideal the horses were all exercised daily and we all took the opportunity to spend time with our horses.  Luckily we had good hacking!


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## SouthWestWhippet (1 November 2007)

Mine will be in pretty much 24/7 from about Novemeber to the end of March as there is no T/O at my yard. We have a limited use winter T/O paddock which she will go in a couple of times a week though for an hour or two and I will turn a couple of my boss' mares out with her. Although it is convinient having her in 24/7 for me, I don't like it because I know that she is happier living out. She is a real herd leader and loves the freedom of being out in the field with her posse of girl friends bossing them about. Last winter I noticed a definite change in her personality when she was stabled 24/7. I'm going to ride her every day plus have her one the walker so she gets out as much as possible but its not the same. I hate winter for her. 
	
	
		
		
	


	





However, I do feel that I make a lot more effort to make life bearable for her than some liveries. There are plenty at the yard that either never put their horses in the winter T/O paddock in case they get dirty, or only turn them out on their own so they don't charge about and get injured. Plenty of people don't bother to exercise their horse every day and one girl doesn't even come up every day to muck out - she just asks someone else to hay and water her pony. I find this SHOCKING. 

I do think horses are adabtable and can cope with living in but they are definitely happier living out and it takes a big commitment on the part of the owner to manage a stabled horse.


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## Lill (1 November 2007)

I don't think its very fair!  It's certainly not natural for them and ours are out for at least 12 hours a day every day, the only time the would stay in 24/7 is if they were on box rest or if it had snowed a lot and the yard was very icy.


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## JM07 (1 November 2007)

i think of it in terms of a human living in a room the size of an average bathroom...would you like to be in your's 24/7????

makes you wonder why some people would think it's ok?


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## houdini (1 November 2007)

I personally wouldn't keep my horses in all the time. Imagine being shut in your bedroom all day with nothing to do.....
I would feel cruel.
If you can't turn a horse out at all, taking them for several walks in hand or hand grazing several times a day would be something?


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## Tiggy1 (1 November 2007)

Mine are out 24/7 365 a year apart form the worst nights when they do come in.


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## Honeypots (1 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
i think of it in terms of a human living in a room the size of an average bathroom...would you like to be in your's 24/7????

makes you wonder why some people would think it's ok?  
	
	
		
		
	


	









[/ QUOTE ]

totally agree


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## reynold (1 November 2007)

as someone earlier said - might not be ideal but it is not cruel 

all horses should - as part of their training - be taught to be stabled 24x7 for periods of time. Then - as happens with riding horses - when they are injured they don't undo healing work by behaving like total morons 'cos they aren't turned out.


if you goto a showground in temp stabling you could be there for a week with no turnout
similarly PC camp has no turnout round here 

there are situations other than the issue of winter grazing that require horses to be stabled 24x7 and it isn't 'cruel'
I'd hardly say that city stabled police horses with no turnout except for their 2 week a year holiday are 'cruelly treated'

real cruelty is what is there for horses in need of ILPH rescue and for those horses abroad tended by the Brooke Hospital and similar situations.


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## Tempi (1 November 2007)

As long as the horse is happy and getting exercise then i cant see a problem.

Both mine are out on alternate days all year round, and over the winter will be spending more time in depending on how their paddocks are holding up.


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## HBII (1 November 2007)

No not at all as long as they are well managed.

Suitable feeding, correct level of excersize etc ..


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## Nepenthe (1 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
as someone earlier said - might not be ideal but it is not cruel 

all horses should - as part of their training - be taught to be stabled 24x7 for periods of time. Then - as happens with riding horses - when they are injured they don't undo healing work by behaving like total morons 'cos they aren't turned out.



[/ QUOTE ]

Which is more important - physical or mental health?  Whilst I agree that sometimes horses have to be stabled, and I box rest mine (but not usually for minor lameness) I think people overlook physical problems caused by stabling - RAO, ulcers, and stable vices which may be stress indicators.


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## MagicMelon (1 November 2007)

I think that it is cruel if not required. Of course there are times when a horse must be kept in for veterinary reasons or whatever. But in most cases I think horses should never be stabled 24/7. Its totally and utterly un-natural and goes against everything they are! A stable is not big, I just imagine shutting a dog in a biggish box 24/7. Same thing in my opinion. Horses should be out grazing and being a horse basically. If its due to lack of grazing, no offence but I think that is the issue needing sorted! I wouldn't even consider owning a horse if I didnt have the land for them. 

I think that those who say  their horse "likes" being stabled or "wants to come in" if he's out are simply seeing a horse sticking to his routine. You couldn't just chuck a racehorse who'd lived in a stable out into a field straight away! He wouldn't have a clue and would likely freak out. But if done slowly I think any horse would prefer to be out. There are some exceptions of course, but most I firmly believe would like to be out. One of mine was stabled a lot in the past - he was extremely quiet when I got him, he would stand in the field looking totally miserable but after a month he finally opened up and now has made a best friend who he plays with and lies fast asleep in the sun. I wouldnt take that away from any horse. And he came from Portugal (TB x Lusitano) so was certainly not used to our Scottish weather! However, he is hunter clipped and well rugged / fed all winter and is very happy. But at the same time ALL my horses who live out are fine to be stabled if needed like at shows.


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## meemzul (1 November 2007)

I think horses should be out for as long as possible, when people say that the horses ask to come in i believe that is because they are 'programmed' to come in at a certain time, my mare is out 24/7 but may come in over winter when i can guarentee after a couple of weeks she will be waiting at the gate at the correct time to be brought in!


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## JM07 (1 November 2007)

this is one subject that you and i actually agree on, MM!!  
	
	
		
		
	


	





i cannot understand livery yards having "restricted" turnout?
why?
what is the reason for this?

probably far too many horses on too small acreage....

i may be wrong....
...but there is a livery yard near me that has 20 horses and 6 acres of turnout...hence they are "in" 6 months of the year...i personally wouldn't  take my horse there..but it always has horses/ponies in and out...


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## vicm2509 (1 November 2007)

I would not say it is being cruel but it is far from ideal and I would not consider doing it myself unless for medical reasons.

A horse may appear to be happy with it, this is because its what its used to, a horse cannot show its feelings as a human can, and when they object we usually tell them off. Horses get used to routene so if they are used to being stabled and turned out for 30mins then if you try and turn them out for longer it will confuse them, which is why they appear to be waiting to come in.

I keep my horse in at night in the winter (all the horses on the yard have to come in at night in the winter), yes he appears to want to come in as he stands by the gate at 4.30pm after a few weeks, but this is just because he has adapted to the routene and would probably be happy to stay out all night.

I think it will put a strain on the horse mentally, it is stuck in a stable and the only contact it gets is when we allow it. Horses are heard animals and need to socialise naturally with other horses and behave like horses are supposed to. It is the same as a person being locked in a room with some food, water and a bed and only having any contact with anyone else if the door was unlocked and someone came in. It would drive you mad, although after time you would get used to it and it would apper normal. However in the long term it would affect your mental health.


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## Honeypots (1 November 2007)

I wonder how they are asking to come in? If they are hanging round the gate then maybe they are expecting food/attention rather than wanting to come in and stay in.
My nags live out 24/7...I don't know if they prefer it but I feel its better/healthier for them. When I arrive to see them in the winter they bomb over if I'm feeding but not particularly if I don't. They're not asking to come in I don't expect but just wondering if I have something edible about me. I have no problem with people stabling if required but do think 24/7 is too much.
Do you think if we called a stable a cage instead, like we do with other animals, we may feel differently?..


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## Weezy (1 November 2007)

I have limited TO in the winter as if I trash my paddock I am in the doo doo for the rest of the year - I do try and get them out as much as possible but my paddock resembles a lake if it has been raining 
	
	
		
		
	


	




  We have a walker and they do not seem to be overly bothered at all - plus we do have enormous pens and they can interact over the walls so they do not live in 12 x 12s or lack equine interaction.


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## Wishful (1 November 2007)

The stables I ride at has a massive acreage (big estate - plenty for all of the horses). They also have a river running through the grounds, are on heavy clay in a wet bit of the country, so the ground gets very soft and soggy very quickly.  Certainly the road verges (which are higher than a lot of the fields) are exceptionally soft...

The turnout is great in summer, but in the middle of winter the ground is just soggy and holding, which isn't good for the horses anyway.


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## asbo (1 November 2007)

i k now a horse who is in 24/7, he is exercised twice a day &amp; seems happy.

have had to do it with fizz during the summer &amp; didn't like it.


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## mickey (1 November 2007)

I do believe that to permanently keep a horse stabled 24/7 all yr round with the exception of ridden exercise is very sad for the horse. I would go so far as to say it is potentially cruel. I would not want any horse of mine to exist that way.


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## Wishful (1 November 2007)

The horses are out in summer and come in when the fields get too wet in winter.  They go out again when the fields are fit to be used.  I think that's the best anyone can do really - unless we all move to the nice dry free draining bits of the country...


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## Merlotmonster (1 November 2007)

Mine goes out in the day in summer and is in all winter. He has an hour out in the school and is then ridden as well. He is very happy munching his hay and doesnt seem bothered by being stabled. I try to put him out in the winter paddock for a couple of hours at the weekend as well. My other horse goes out in the winter paddock in the day. If I put them out together they fight and come in injured. I dont think I am being cruel and try to manage my 3 acres as well as I can. The summer fields have been harrowed, rolled and are now being rested until the spring so as to ensure they have excellent grazing for the whole summer. If i left them out in the summer paddock all winter it would become poached and pretty useless.


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## tabithakat64 (1 November 2007)

Personally I think keeping any horse or pony stabled 24/7 even if it is being exercised once a day is cruel as it's so far from what nature intended and they would have social contact with other horses etc. I acknowledge that some times stabling 24/7 for short periods is necessary. Some turnout is always possible if people are prepared to make extra effort, those who don't care about their horses well being enough to make the effort to find some sort of turnout year round shouldn't have horses in my opinion.


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## Seahorse (1 November 2007)

Where I did my training at Brompton Barracks there was no turnout at all. The yard was in the middle of an army barracks in Chatham. It was an American barn, with the indoor school at one end so most of the time they didn't even see outside.
They were ridden 2 or 3 times a day, and with 8 grooms there all day, every day there was plenty going on for them to look at.
As far as I can remember (20 years ago) they were all fine, none of them had any stable vices and were very well looked after.
It was exciting the first time out for a hack in the spring!

They did go somewhere for 2 weeks holiday in the summer too.


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## Tierra (1 November 2007)

Mines in most of the time and hes adjusted very well to it.

He has about 2 hours exercise a day and full interaction with other horses due to the layout of the stables. (An hour on the walker in the morning. An hour ridden in the afternoon and occasionally goes for afternoon strolls in hand round the grounds of the castle)

He goes out... approximately twice a week - weather dependent. This week he's been in so far because we've had enormous amounts of rain and he was just about knee deep in mud when he was out at the end of last week... which needless to say, didnt impress him a whole lot.

To those who say they adjust - id agree. Mine went from being out 8 hours a day minimum in the UK. To being out for an hour or so twice a week here. Now when we put him out, it feels like a complete waste of time since he spends most of it stood at the gate wanting to come in.

He's let loose into one of the indoor schools a couple of times a week also for a kick and a play.

I dont consider it ideal by a long shot and if everything goes ahead as planned, we'll be having our own yard built at home and he'll be with me (and then he'll be out everyday for a couple of hours, but he'll be out alone - which is yet another debate i guess.)

None of our horses show any visible signs of stress. Mines rather hyper atm but its come on very fast in the last two weeks and i think its more down to the time of year than the lack of turnout (unless hes been storing up some kind of pent up rage for 6 months which i really doubt ;p)

Its quite common over here and in many other mainland european countries to keep the horses in. I dont think its cruel; i think its a different way to manage things and i completly believe they adapt to their lifestyles.

Sure its a long way from nature.. but lets face it, most domesticated animals live routines a long way from whats natural.


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## Merlotmonster (1 November 2007)

QUOTE 'Some turnout is always possible if people are prepared to make extra effort, those who don't care about their horses well being enough to make the effort to find some sort of turnout year round shouldn't have horses in my opinion.'

Cheek! You have no idea of my circumstances and to say I dont care enough about my horse to find them year round turnout is downright rude imo. My horses are extremely well cared for, happy and healthy. What makes you the expert!!


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## Tierra (1 November 2007)

I must admit that I agree that statement was rather harsh. Its not always that easy.

I have absolutly no alternative at present than keeping him in 99% of the time and im sure Im not the only person 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 Also, while im sure some horses kept in arent happy and show all the typical signs of stress; not all are like this. Many of the owners with horses kept in this fashion probably spend more time exercising and interacting with their horses than those that are out most of the time. 

It works both ways. While im sure there are some horses kept on yards with no turnout that are left in for days on end, perhaps with owners who turn up mid afternoon to muck out and the horse spends 90% of its time staring at a wall..... theres also the ones who have routines that do their best to make up for the lack of turnout and have the exercise and care that some horses out 24/7 should be getting rather than being ignored and just left because its "ok" - its natural right? ;p


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## Tinypony (1 November 2007)

Horses get used to things just as humans can, so they can get used to being kept in.  Personally I think it's wrong to expect that of them, and not the best for their health and wellbeing.  I can say hand on heart that if I had to stable mine 24/7 I wouldn't have horses.  If other people choose to make that compromise for their horse then I guess that's up to them.
Is it cruel?  Well, I think it is a bit really, because you are depriving them of the physical movement that is best for their limbs and lungs, and the social interaction with other horses.  Putting them on a horse walker or "exercising" them is a poor substitute.  I suppose it's no more cruel than people who keep dogs shut up in one room all their lives only taking them out for a daily walk.  That's just my opinion and I know lots of people, in particular those who do stable 24/7 will disagree.


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## Merlotmonster (1 November 2007)

But if you read my previous posts properly you will see they are not in 24/7. He gets turned out for an hour loose in the sandschool when i get home from work, plus he is ridden, plus he gets out for a bit at weekends. He is far happier then the horse thats kept in the field behind mine whos owner is never there, it stands out in all weathers looking miserable.
If I had another 10 acres it wouldnt be a problem, however I dont. The horse is happy and shows no signs of stress or boredom. Like all domestic animals, the things we do with them is not a re-creation of the wild. If it was we wouldnt be riding them and taking them out in lorries!


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## Bossanova (1 November 2007)

To me, cruel is depriving a horse of food or water and causing it pain/allowing it to suffer.

I have no problem with stabling 24/7 so long as the horse either gets exercised or led out daily.


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## Tinypony (2 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
He gets turned out for an hour loose in the sandschool when i get home from work, plus he is ridden, plus he gets out for a bit at weekends.  

[/ QUOTE ] 
I understand that, to me that isn't sufficient, but to you it is, so we just agree to differ.  
There are 168 hours in a week, if a horse gets put in a sandschool for an hour and ridden for an hour 5 days a week, then maybe 2 hours hack Sat and Sun, with say 4 hours turnout on those days... he's been doing something for 22 hours, and shut in for 146.  Plus, when he's been out of the stable much of the time it has been to work, not relaxed socialisation with other horses.  I wouldn't keep horses if I had to keep them like that, and have gone through all sorts of hoops in the past to stick by this.  That's just me though, I'm not attempting to preach or convert, just giving my answer to the question.


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## tabithakat64 (2 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
QUOTE 'Some turnout is always possible if people are prepared to make extra effort, those who don't care about their horses well being enough to make the effort to find some sort of turnout year round shouldn't have horses in my opinion.'

Cheek! You have no idea of my circumstances and to say I dont care enough about my horse to find them year round turnout is downright rude imo. My horses are extremely well cared for, happy and healthy. What makes you the expert!! 

[/ QUOTE ]

I did not mean to sound rude and this is my opinion as I stated in my post. I feel that after food, water and medical care,  turnout in social groups is what is most important for a horse to have and in my opinion every owner should do their best to provide this for their horses.  
I have never claimed to be an expert and was just expressing my opinion on this subject and am sorry if you thought I was personally attacking the way you choose to keep your horses.

I do think people who just abandon their horse in the field and do not check on them (or have someone else check on them) daily are just as bad.


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## Tinypony (2 November 2007)

Sometimes though people think field-kept horses are "abandoned" and they are not.  I used to rent my own little place and have 3 living out there, with good shelter on hard standing.  The lady who owned the place mentioned that her nosey neighbour had spoken to her about renting the place to someone who had just turned the horses out and left them to their own devices.  Well, my landlady was pleased to explain to her that, because I was self-employed and working from home, I was able to suit myself about visiting.  So I'd arrive there after the neighbour had gone to work, often for hours, and oh lucky me - back home snug before the neighbour got home again.  
I'm not 100% against stabling.  I recently brought a horse who was used to coming in at night, and so he's continued to do so, I'm not averse to some convenience in my life, LOL!  I like to know he's out with his friend every day for most of the daylight hours though.  Surely it's better for their joints to have them out and wandering about as much as possible?  A stable kept horse is doing short bursts of activity instead of constant movement, which can't be great.  When I'm riding first thing I still turn this horse out for at least half an hour first, to let him loosen up.
Anyway, interesting discussion.


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## DiablosGold (3 November 2007)

I have to over winter at my yard.

My preference would be to keep him out all the time 24/7.

But no I don't think it's cruel, as long as a horse is fed, wormed, exercised (if appropriate) and cared for, a stabled horse is better off than a field kept horse who is neglected.


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## GlamourDol (3 November 2007)

[ QUOTE ]
  and they would have social contact with other horses 

[/ QUOTE ]

Just gonna throw something else in here.
Say the horse goes out for a couple of hours. But has no social cantact with other horses. Is this also cruel?


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## Tinypony (3 November 2007)

Not cruel GlamourDol, but maybe not very kind.  I know sometimes it seems best to keep a horse alone to avoid injury, or maybe that horse has issues with other horses.  Mind you, it probably wouldn't have those issues if it had a background of being with other horses all it's life... just a thought that came into my head... 
I know of course that horses are domesticated animals that live to work for us.  However to me my side of that bargain is, in their spare time, to recognise their essential nature as herd animals and do what I can to accommodate that.  I can't give them 100's of miles to roam free, but I can give them the company of a small and stable group of other equines.  We're all different, but that's my sticking point - no company, no turnout, no horses for me.
By the way, I've taken 2 completely de-socialised horses at different times in the past, and managed to re-introduce them to others safely.  It took time, but it was worth it to see them playing and grooming in the field with their friends.  They were nicer to know, more relaxed and easier to work with once that was done as well.
Please appreciate that I'm not having a go at anyone who stables 24/7, or keeps a horse alone etc.  I am just answering the questions asked from my point of view, I'm not trying to change any minds or upset anyone.


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