# Saddle fitting advice -back lifting off over fence - is this normal?



## ArcticFox (26 April 2013)

Hi all


I recently noticed a couple of friends saddles lift off the horses back on take off over a fence - its noticable due to photos although I don't have one to show you. 

Taking into account saddle fit - is this normal?  the rider has been ahead of the movement each time and the horse is slightly deep to the fence.  Personally I would think this is not right but then maybe I'm wrong

just wondered what you all thought. 

will try and find some photos


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## Roasted Chestnuts (26 April 2013)

Well the saddle does have a rigid structure whereas a horse obviously changes position when it jumps. So I would assume the saddle would lift off the back a little during take off then be back in pace as horse reaches level and lands.

I've noticed it before but neve thought of it as an ill fitting saddle but prepared to be corrected as my saddle, which was fitted by a Saddle fitter does lift during take off but is level on the back as the jump progresses.


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## sj_xc_hannah_ (26 April 2013)

If the horse starts to bascule on take off generally it will come up a bit, if it looks reasonable and it's not moving on landing I would say it's ok. If you're worried put a saddle pad under it to give a bit of a cushion.


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## ArcticFox (27 April 2013)

Not sure i can suggest putting a pad on as its a friends saddle. Was hoping for a saddle fitter to advise so if anyone out there? 
They already have a sheepskin half pad. Unjust curious if this is acceptable - I don't think I've ever seen a pro's saddle lifting off the horses back.


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## PapaFrita (27 April 2013)

ArcticFox said:



			Not sure i can suggest putting a pad on as its a friends saddle. Was hoping for a saddle fitter to advise so if anyone out there? 
They already have a sheepskin half pad. Unjust curious if this is acceptable - I don't think I've ever seen a pro's saddle lifting off the horses back.
		
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I've seen this happen LOADS, even with pros. It's particularly noticeable on take off. I _believe_ saddles lift up at the back when the tree is too tight over the shoulders but I can't even remember where I heard that, so not 100% reliable.

Just found this; Apparently it happens because saddles are girthed towards the front of the saddle and (opposite of what I thought!) when they are too wide in front; http://www.minstersaddlery.co.uk/OffCentre.html


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## ann-jen (27 April 2013)

Some jump saddles have very short tree points. I think the theory is to allow more room for the shoulders to come up over the fence. But the upshot is the lifting of the back of the saddle that you describe. And no it shouldn't be happening to any great degree.


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## Llanali (27 April 2013)

I don't know if its right but I do think its common: I've often seen t with pros and out and about.

Having just googled "showjumping take off" images 1,6,8 and 10 all show it happening..... I'm on my phone or else I would attach some pics I have taken over the years of it too. 
I do wonder if it also has to do with stirrup bar pressure as the rider puts more pressure into them? Acting as some sort of pivotal force? Could be rambling!!


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## DuckToller (27 April 2013)

Is this too much do you think?  










I was trying a different saddle on daughter's horse so didn't put a saddle cloth on so I could see where the grease marks were concentrating.  I didn't realise it lifted this much until I saw the photo, it didn't feel like it was lifting.

(Need to get a saddle fitter out but she is away at the moment so waiting until we are both around to try a few.)


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## ArcticFox (27 April 2013)

thanks for adding the pic, this is what I was thinking about although the ones I have seen recently are much higher off the back than yours.


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## rara007 (27 April 2013)

I have no idea what is correct and know from experience saddles that lift at the back in trot try to buck you off over a jump regardless of what the horse does  but is it physically possible to have a rigid saddle that conforms to both an arched jumping back and a normal standing back?


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## stroppymare153 (27 April 2013)

rara007 said:



			I have no idea what is correct and know from experience saddles that lift at the back in trot try to buck you off over a jump regardless of what the horse does  but is it physically possible to have a rigid saddle that conforms to both an arched jumping back and a normal standing back?
		
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seems to be!! (envious sigh! )


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## Llanali (27 April 2013)

Ah, but that's moment of suspension, not take off


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## TarrSteps (27 April 2013)

And quite a flat backed jumper.


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## horseandshoes77 (28 April 2013)

well same horse, same saddle, same rider, at dif positions over jump... I think a little lift is going to be inevitable dependant on the jump and take off etc....




















all showing some lift in varying degree...and some that don't


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## nicnag (28 April 2013)

I've always been led to believe that the saddle shouldn't lift much from the horses back, you have to expect to see some slight movement but I don't think they should lift that far up and can see how if they were too wide at the front could affect this. Looking at Pro pics it doesn't seem to happen to any great degree although they do tend to have a ton of sheepskin hiding any major issues.

Artic Fox, I have a saddle fitter coming to the area on the 15th if anyone wants to make up numbers?


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## posie_honey (28 April 2013)

It can depend on the horses confo
Mine has high wither and is croup high - she needs made to measures saddles to fit her as of the peg are too flat treed.  What ever we do the sale will a always lift at the back when she jumps - it doesn't affect her (belive me if it did I'd be in the floor as she came to me with awful back problems due to ill fitting saddles - so to say she is a bit paranoid about her back is an understatement! )
It doesn't look great in photos but she seems to be happy with it 
A back point balance strap does help though


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## sbloom (29 April 2013)

PapaFrita said:



			I've seen this happen LOADS, even with pros. It's particularly noticeable on take off. I _believe_ saddles lift up at the back when the tree is too tight over the shoulders but I can't even remember where I heard that, so not 100% reliable.

Just found this; Apparently it happens because saddles are girthed towards the front of the saddle and (opposite of what I thought!) when they are too wide in front; http://www.minstersaddlery.co.uk/OffCentre.html

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Girthing straps have many different functions and it's rare that girthing at the front would make an otherwise well-fitted saddle lift at the back.  Simply using the back balance strap is not a good idea as it could force an illfitting saddle into the back, and cause other issues such as making the saddle move forwards onto the shoulder.

Saddles lift at the back because of three main reasons - the first two go together - either too wide in the tree angle or not enough flocking at the front.  The third is different as is that the tree and/or panel is too curvy and is rocking.  This can happen when the saddle is fitted only on the yard, when moving most horses lift and flatten their backs and saddles can then lift at the back that looked perfect as a static fit.



DuckToller said:



			Is this too much do you think?  










I was trying a different saddle on daughter's horse so didn't put a saddle cloth on so I could see where the grease marks were concentrating.  I didn't realise it lifted this much until I saw the photo, it didn't feel like it was lifting.

(Need to get a saddle fitter out but she is away at the moment so waiting until we are both around to try a few.)
		
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That looks like too much lift to me.  I'd expect to see a tiny pop on take off but probably less than an inch off the horse's back.


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