# Channel 4 Racing



## Judgemental (4 January 2014)

Is it just me or is there something missing from Channel 4 Racing?

Required ingredience:

Attractive Articulate People

Excitement

Interest

News


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## Alec Swan (4 January 2014)

It's no use you sulking because of the absent Claire Balding,  you'll just have to be patient! :wink3:

Alec.


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## Judgemental (4 January 2014)

Alec Swan said:



			It's no use you sulking because of the absent Claire Balding,  you'll just have to be patient! :wink3:

Alec.
		
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LOL, well done Alec at last some wit and mirth, in the context of Channel 4 Racing 

Since the demise of Mac what is there to laugh about. 

If there is any sulking on my part it is the absence of the lovely Emma Spencer.  

Let us see what other posters have to say.

I have a potential broadside about 'dress code'.

However in the interim they could have a prize for the best racing joke of the day!


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## Bryndu (4 January 2014)

The thing for me is....
Tha since the Lord JF left.....there is no one with any REAL knowledge of riding races/horses and the day to day stuff that generally goes on around racing and yards.
TBH...in nearly all the other sports on telly...they have ex rugby/football/event/showjump/swimming/hockey etc commentating....so why have C4 just abandoned racing....
Honestly?...I now watch with the sound down until either a yard visit or the actual race....sigh.
Bryndu


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## Alec Swan (4 January 2014)

I suspect that we may all be losing sight of the fact that Ch4 Racing is a focused programme,  focused upon the needs of the Gambler.  

The gambler will care little for how pretty or well dressed or eloquent or personable a presenter is.  The gambler will be focused upon the opinions of the pundit,  the fellow gambler,  and how the horse appears to be,  at the lead up.  I suppose that we should be grateful for the crumbs the we receive.  For me,  on NY's Day,  the ever delightful and ebullient and enthusiastic Alice Plunkett,  despite the fact that she said that she was in need of dry underwear,  was the star of the show.  I could become very fond of our Alice!

Mick F most certainly isn't John F,  and never will be,  but his opinions are certainly of worth,  no matter how they're delivered.

No,  whilst I take and understand your irritation,  I feel it too,  but it should be born in mind that we are a comparative irrelevance,  sadly.

Alec.


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## Judgemental (4 January 2014)

Alec Swan said:



			I suspect that we may all be losing sight of the fact that Ch4 Racing is a focused programme,  focused upon the needs of the Gambler.  

The gambler will care little for how pretty or well dressed or eloquent or personable a presenter is.  The gambler will be focused upon the opinions of the pundit,  the fellow gambler,  and how the horse appears to be,  at the lead up.  I suppose that we should be grateful for the crumbs the we receive.  For me,  on NY's Day,  the ever delightful and ebullient and enthusiastic Alice Plunkett,  despite the fact that she said that she was in need of dry underwear,  was the star of the show.  I could become very fond of our Alice!

Mick F most certainly isn't John F,  and never will be,  but his opinions are certainly of worth,  no matter how they're delivered.

No,  whilst I take and understand your irritation,  I feel it too,  but it should be born in mind that we are a comparative irrelevance,  sadly.

Alec.
		
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Alec that's all very well but as you can see from Bryndu's post it's not all about gambling.

I don't think it should be all about gambling.

Dress code is very important. After all there is a huge industry supplying riding and country wear.

Did I see Tanya on The Morning Line without even a sensation of make up this morning?

As far as I am concerned the presenters should dress and look the part. 

They should also have a ready supply of witty cracks and jokes. That is one of the endearing features of Willie Carson.

If Bruce Forsyth can have some witty comments on Strictly, then Nick Luck can do the same.

Let me also focus on John Francombe, why is he not part of the team. I am constantly asked by my OH where he is!!! I am told there are a host of bored housewives across the length and breath of the country, who miss his dulcet West Country brogue.


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## Bryndu (4 January 2014)

Alec Swan said:



			I suspect that we may all be losing sight of the fact that Ch4 Racing is a focused programme,  focused upon the needs of the Gambler.  

The gambler will care little for how pretty or well dressed or eloquent or personable a presenter is.  The gambler will be focused upon the opinions of the pundit,  the fellow gambler,  and how the horse appears to be,  at the lead up.  I suppose that we should be grateful for the crumbs the we receive.  For me,  on NY's Day,  the ever delightful and ebullient and enthusiastic Alice Plunkett,  despite the fact that she said that she was in need of dry underwear,  was the star of the show.  I could become very fond of our Alice!

Mick F most certainly isn't John F,  and never will be,  but his opinions are certainly of worth,  no matter how they're delivered.

No,  whilst I take and understand your irritation,  I feel it too,  but it should be born in mind that we are a comparative irrelevance,  sadly.

Alec.
		
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All of what you say is totally true.
I shall continue to watch....but fear it may soon turn in to the same state as watching racing at the bookies (It is on when I place my yearly bets on the national and the Derby...honest )
Bryndu


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## Judgemental (4 January 2014)

Whilst I am commenting.

Why did Channel 4 leave the outside commentating on New Years Day exclusively to Emma, Tanya and Alice IN THE POURING RAIN. Whilst Nick and Co were in the nice warm studio.

Those ladies were soaked to the skin, indeed Alice said on camera and I quote, "right down to her nickers". 

Lets be fair it was not comfortable for viewers or for them.

Oh and were was Claire Balding. That would be very interesting.


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## Bryndu (4 January 2014)

Let me also focus on John Francombe, why is he not part of the team. I am constantly asked by my OH where he is!!! I am told there are a host of bored housewives across the length and breath of the country, who miss his dulcet West Country brogue. 

If memory serves....and I am happy to be corrected...the Lord JF did not want to renew his contract to go with the new format, as he did not feel it was 'right' how C4 was revamping the prog..and removing presenters.
Fo me one of my outstanding memories was of JF practice riding over the Cheltenham chase course....on the wonderful chestnut who to my shame I cannot name....an amazing insight in to riding over chase fences...
How many of the present presenters could do that?
This is the type of thing I believe is missing....and dry knickers
Bryndu


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## claracanter (4 January 2014)

What I miss are the horses.

They barely show them in the paddock now and spend more time in the studio with the so called 'experts'. 


( I thought Alice, Emma and Tanya did a fantastic job on New Years Day in such terrible conditions while the men in the studio just smirked)


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## JCWHITE (4 January 2014)

Can I just add, if I want to watch computer games, I could watch my husband!!

For me, the best part now apart from  the actual races,is the yard visits, and Mattie Batchelors peices.
I think that this mornings show, was a result of cancelled fixtures, and having to resort to plan B or whatever.


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## Rollin (4 January 2014)

Judgemental said:



			Whilst I am commenting.

Why did Channel 4 leave the outside commentating on New Years Day exclusively to Emma, Tanya and Alice IN THE POURING RAIN. Whilst Nick and Co were in the nice warm studio.

Those ladies were soaked to the skin, indeed Alice said on camera and I quote, "right down to her nickers". 

Lets be fair it was not comfortable for viewers or for them.

Oh and were was Claire Balding. That would be very interesting.
		
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Of course they did.  Has no one read 'Real Men eat Quiche', 1980's I know.  Real men in the office make the girls do the work.  We girls continue to put up with it.


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## millikins (4 January 2014)

Well I'm afraid I've given up. Used to love watching when we had behind the scenes stuff and JF's wisdom. Re appealing to gamblers, I assume C4 must be keeping comparison figures, have they managed to attract a larger audience I wonder?


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## Judgemental (4 January 2014)

Another point, why can't any of the ladies call the races. I am sure any of them would add quality to the  lacklustre commentary.


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## Pamfyson (4 January 2014)

claracanter said:



			What I miss are the horses.

They barely show them in the paddock now and spend more time in the studio with the so called 'experts'. 


( I thought Alice, Emma and Tanya did a fantastic job on New Years Day in such terrible conditions while the men in the studio just smirked)
		
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This exactly.  Sick to death of listening incessantly to the so called experts.  I have taken to turning the sound off.


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## Crazy_cat_lady (4 January 2014)

They don't show enough of the horses in the paddock, they will show the odd one but all they seem to do is go though the  list then go though all the different betting lists which gets rather tedious after a while!


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## Alec Swan (4 January 2014)

Rollin said:



			Of course they did.  Has no one read 'Real Men eat Quiche', 1980's I know.  Real men in the office make the girls do the work.  We girls continue to put up with it.
		
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The reality,  I'd suggest,  is that the various roles are decided by the producer,  not the presenters.  Anyway,  the delectable Alice makes a much better job of it than Richi What'sisface.  

Alec.


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## splashgirl45 (4 January 2014)

im another who likes to look at the horse befiore the race, know who is riding it and who trains it and any extra bits of info.  quite often the so called experts pick a few horses that they think will win and then something wins which we havent even seen!!!!!  also they are all so bland and colourless, except for emma who thinks she is at a fashion shoot!!!!!!! and goes too far IMO.  at least claire dresses for the races and is enthusiastic aboutthe whole thing even though she may make some gaffs...she makes the programme come alive...


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## teapot (4 January 2014)

Clare Balding was only ever going to do the BIG fixtures - Cheltenham, Aintree, Goodwood, Newmarket, Epsom etc. She may not be everyone's cup of tea and makes the odd mistake but she researches and knows her stuff, unlike others... 

Whilst the BBC coverage wasn't brilliant, they still managed to show what matters - parade ring and race.


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## Honeylight (4 January 2014)

I find it very dull these days, & Alec is right it is slanted at what they think the "gamblers" will want. If you go onto The Racing Forum you will read that most of these "gamblers" are disatissfied with the coverage as well. I would think that most gamblers will have made their selections prior to the TV coverage, but what they will want to see is all the horses in  the paddock & going down to see what is going to improve from the race to back next time out. This isn't happening any more & you never see the horses cantering down any more, you can tell a lot about a horse by the way it moves, one might have the knee action that suggests a love of soft going or another will flick it's feet in a way that means it will go on firm; in that way you would get an idea what to bet on in the future. No amount of analysis by the guys in the portacabin make up for observation yourself, of course it is best at the paddock rails & all the serious people go to the pre-parade ring. I don't bet myself, but I think racing is all about the horses & we need to see them. The coverage is so dry that any one new to the sport will just get so bored they will switch over to watch a film. There seems to be no atmosphere, The electronic Mozart is doubly annoying.


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## marmalade76 (4 January 2014)

I watched it today for the first time in ages (my TV is usually tuned to Cbeebies) and was really disappointed. So dull, missed JF and missed the run through of runners whilst they went round the paddock, oh, and adverts DURING the programme - WTF?? 

Enjoyed the Sam Thomas peice which was too short and I was quite shocked re. the peice about St Nic Abbey, is there nothing they won't put a poor animal through for the sake of their bank balance??


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## Orangehorse (4 January 2014)

I know it isn't the BBC, but there seems to be a LOT of breaks for adverts.  Way too many.  Mick F is OK, he is a real jockey after all, but I miss JF too.  He always had a lot of sensible comments to make.


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## Alec Swan (4 January 2014)

Orangehorse said:



			......., but I miss JF too.  He always had a lot of sensible comments to make.
		
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As we all do.  Do you remember when the "Whip discussion" was taking place?  Jim Mcgrath was arguing with God (JF),  and when Mcgrath contradicted him,  for about the fourth time,  JF turned and said "Go on then,  you've ridden a few 'orses,  you tell us how it should be done"! :wink3: There was laughter in front of and behind the camera!!  To his credit,  McGrath accepted the criticism with good grace.

Chanel 4 Racing is a poorer place without Mr. Francombe.  I also still miss Alistair Downe he's a gifted orator.

Alec.


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## Darremi (4 January 2014)

The spend far too much time in the studio and not enough time viewing the runners in the paddock. I would rather see the horses than listen to jaded analysis full of cliches.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (5 January 2014)

It was a poor program due to the loss of racing at Sandown, but they could do with a more lively discussion, more colour.


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## Patterdale (5 January 2014)

Alec Swan said:



			It's no use you sulking because of the absent Claire Balding,  you'll just have to be patient! :wink3:

Alec.
		
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OP has been banned for his homophobic comments before so I doubt he's bothered about the absence of CB...


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## Exploding Chestnuts (5 January 2014)

Alec Swan said:



			Anyway,  the delectable Alice makes a much better job of it than Richi What'sisface.  

Alec.
		
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rofl
In Richi's defence, he is a lot better informed than when he first appeared on the program, but we, the viewers have had to suffer in [comparative] silence for his "education" to kick in.
Francome left of his own free will, only a large paycheck will bring him back.
Viewing figures.............. I don't know if comparative figures are available, but if it is aimed at gamblers, . why?........ real gamblers will spend their time more profitably elsewhere.


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## Honeylight (5 January 2014)

The one thing in their favour though, was that they went to Newcastle when Wincanton was abandoned. They haven't done this for a while; otherwise it would have been All Weather & glass cabin only.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (5 January 2014)

I suppose the glass cabin is permanent as they need it to transport the glass table around, could we just have one "racecourse studio" presentation, to see it that would still work?


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## Honeylight (5 January 2014)

I still don't know why they can't just comment & do the pre analysis as the horses are parading & cantering down, like they used to do in the old days, it worked really well & killed two birds with one stone. Horse racing doesn't need all this slick presenting, are the presenters so vain they need to have their faces on screen all the time? Also there do seem to be rather a lot of them. The horses are the stars, everyone on all the forums I have been on are saying the same; the current presentation is dry, dull & driving those that love horses away. All we need is the horses before the race with a small amount of analysis, the odd interview, the prices, pre-race & the winning & placed horses. The occasional feature on a yard, horse or jockey (they do this rather well) wouldn't go a miss either.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (5 January 2014)

It's predictable, I only watch part of it, and usually am doing something more interesting, like ironing!
The guys are knowledgeable, I like Nick Luck, but it lacks a  "magic ingredient".


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## Judgemental (5 January 2014)

Judging by the host of negative comments, it was not "just me" thinking that Channel 4 Racing was unsatisfactory.

With a 'bit of luck' - get it! Somebody might just read these posts and take note.

So they have to 'get out of the box' - do you like my little cliches. Irritating I know but not so irritating as a bunch of commentators, droning on about nothing that one can see on the screen. Juch a host of meaningless statistics.

They have to get the camera's down to the paddock preferably with Emma and Catermole. Hopefully John Francome could be lured back and show the horses to the viewing public.

Then those calling the race add some Razzama Tazz. 

If a horse and jockey goes down, lets see it. Not this sanitised viewing. "Oh gosh we might hurt the sensitivities of the viewers". Good grief, they want to see the 'carnage' to weigh up the next time the jockey and horse concerned are entered.

If one is physically at the races or pointing, one can see falls!  

Also some wit and jolly jokes would not go amiss. We will even put up with a few blue ones.

A top trainer went to church and was seen having a longer than usual pray. Upon leaving and shaking the vicar by the hand. The latter said, "was there anybody special in your prayers - confidentially of course". The trainer leant forward and wispered the name of a horse in the vicar's ear. "Not a chance" said the vicar. "Well what then?"  "Listen to my Sermon On The Mount next Sunday".


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## Echo Bravo (5 January 2014)

Use to do my ironing watching the morning line as it's a boring job and the ML use to make it fly by, now there is no enjoyment watching. I hate the way they go thru the card and miss out horses and jockeys and when you see a horse fall and not get up straight away they say they will find out and tell you but never do. I'd like the old format back with out John Mc as he had me throwing things at the telly with his stupid goings on.


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## Dobiegirl (5 January 2014)

Its soul less, no one there with a hint of personality apart from the girls, far too much emphasis on betting not enough on the horses, boring really and a shadow of its former self.


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## teapot (5 January 2014)

MrsD123 said:



			I suppose the glass cabin is permanent as they need it to transport the glass table around, could we just have one "racecourse studio" presentation, to see it that would still work?
		
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I saw it when I was at Glorious Goodwood (and anyone who's been to Goodwood will know that the entire course, stands and parade rings have an almost 'pop up garden party' feel to them all) - it stuck out like a sore thumb!! Also, friend and I commented on how much filming channel 4 were doing that wasn't of the racing...


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## Honeylight (6 January 2014)

I have just realised what "ingredient" is missing from the presentation.....a love of horses. It comes across to me that the majority are not that bothered about the horses at all & only think of them as betting statistics. Where as JF & Big Mac seemed to care about them, & were more knowledgeable. One of the presenters (can't remember who) couldn't differentiate between a bay & a chestnut.


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## Alec Swan (6 January 2014)

Dobiegirl said:



			Its soul less, no one there with a hint of personality apart from the girls, far too much emphasis on betting not enough on the horses, boring really and a shadow of its former self.
		
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I agree,  and without question.  One might just as well read a newspaper.  

I've rather gone along with the changes,  albeit reluctantly,  but it's when I look back,  and remember even that bloody awful man Mccririck,  that I'd rather have him than this!

*Must* Chanel 4 ignore their viewing public,  when it seems that even those who are gamblers are less than satisfied?  I suspect that eating humble pie,  and returning,  or restoring the programme to its previous ethos isn't an option.

Alec.


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## Goya (6 January 2014)

I've read through the posts on here and I couldn't agree more. The stupid adverts for betting drive me bonkers along with the presentation (or lack of it)
With a lot of people in financial trouble should advertising betting be allowed (I suppose this is a question to put to Government)
I only watch it so I can see racing as they have the monopoly o mainstream TV, but they should surely start to listen the voice of the people?
Also the diction of some of the presenters leaves a lot to be desired. I have a job to actually understand the horses names at times, although this may be because they rush through it so quickly.
maybe the fact that it is sponsored by Dubai has a lot to do with it?


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## Exploding Chestnuts (6 January 2014)

I don't see why ads on CH Racing are related to content,   they don't bet in the Emirates, and I think the idea is to get people to go there on holiday.
I don't  mind the comic betting ads, makes a change from meerkats.com
Betting is much more "gambleaware" than years ago, to my mind, if we want to talk about debt and stuff:  people seem to think they can just go and buy whatever they want, and that is why they get in to debt.   The never save for anything, they "must have" the latest mobile thing, is is all a con, forking out money for non essentials. 
Everyone wants to have everything, and that is why they get in to debt.


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## humblepie (6 January 2014)

Another who would like to see more of the horses in the parade ring.  I do like the small yard pieces they do but on the "Sam Thomas dark horses" bit, why do the camera angles have to be so bad.  Close of mouth of person speaking, then cut away, then jaunty angle of half of face.  Just keep the camera either on the horse or on the trainer please.  

Must admit not in the least bit bothered as to whether or not any make up worn by female presenters and actually prefer that they don't try to over glamorous them.


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## Echo Bravo (6 January 2014)

Graham Cunningham said the horse was a chestnut when it was a bay offspring of Miss Cricket who was a chestnut.


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## Alec Swan (7 January 2014)

Echo Bravo said:



			Graham Cunningham said the horse was a chestnut when it was a bay offspring of Miss Cricket who was a chestnut.
		
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Quite clearly,  one aspect of the presenters is such that those who concentrate upon figures,  have very little understanding or interest in the horse,  and vice-versa.  Even when standing to attention,  Channel 4 Racing has opposing legs of different lengths.  For as long as that remains the case,  so we'll have these discussions.  In a perfect world, we'd have both feet planted firmly on the ground.

Alec.


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## Dobiegirl (7 January 2014)

Echo Bravo said:



			Graham Cunningham said the horse was a chestnut when it was a bay offspring of Miss Cricket who was a chestnut.
		
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In actual fact it was Lady Cricket.


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## Caledonia (7 January 2014)

Echo Bravo said:



			Graham Cunningham said the horse was a chestnut when it was a bay offspring of Miss Cricket who was a chestnut.
		
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Red Sherlock is chestnut, by Shirrocco ex Lady Cricket. 

The best young racehorse I've seen in a long time. Think he could be a Gold Cup horse.


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## Echo Bravo (7 January 2014)

I stand corrected Lady Cricket, but he did say one of her offspring I think a mare was a chestnut, when it was plainly a bay.


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## Echo Bravo (7 January 2014)

Nope Blue Heron is one of the best I've seen for along time.


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## Caledonia (7 January 2014)

Echo Bravo said:



			Nope Blue Heron is one of the best I've seen for along time. 

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 - Did you see Red Sherlock's last run? Jumped like an experienced hurdler - was spectacular!


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## Judgemental (9 January 2014)

I fear Saturday's racing is going to be somewhat thin and patchy?


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## Judgemental (10 January 2014)

In an attempt to inject some amusement and humor into this thread and racing, herewith an offering:

 A vicar wanted to raise money for his church, and being told that there was a fortune in horse racing, he decided to buy a horse at the sales. The prices were very high so he bought a donkey instead. He took the view  that since he had it, he might as well enter the donkey and to his surprise the donkey came in third. The next day, the media carried this headline:
vicar's ASS SHOWS"

The vicar was so pleased with the donkey that he entered it again, and this time it won!

The papers read: "Vicar's ASS OUT IN FRONT"

The bishop was somewhat upset with this publicity that he ordered the vicar not to enter his donkey in another race.

The headlines read: "BISHOP SCRATCHES Vicar's ASS"

This was too much for the bishop and he ordered the vicar to get rid of the animal. The vicar decided to give it to a nun in the nearby convent.

The headlines read: "NUN HAS BEST ASS IN TOWN"

The bishop fainted! He informed the nun that she would have to dispose of the donkey. She finally found a farmer willing to buy him for £100.00

The paper read: "NUN sells ASS FOR £100.00"

They buried the bishop the next day. The headline?:

"NUN'S ASS KILLS BISHOP"


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## Doormouse (10 January 2014)

Alec Swan said:



			As we all do.  Do you remember when the "Whip discussion" was taking place?  Jim Mcgrath was arguing with God (JF),  and when Mcgrath contradicted him,  for about the fourth time,  JF turned and said "Go on then,  you've ridden a few 'orses,  you tell us how it should be done"! :wink3: There was laughter in front of and behind the camera!!  To his credit,  McGrath accepted the criticism with good grace.

Chanel 4 Racing is a poorer place without Mr. Francombe.  I also still miss Alistair Downe he's a gifted orator.

Alec.
		
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Great moment and one we will never have the like of again with this lot in charge.

I too miss Alistair Downe, he added that bit of magic to each days racing. 

To be fair I never thought I would consider Alice to be the best bit of Channel 4 racing but I do now.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (10 January 2014)

Doormouse said:



			To be fair I never thought I would consider Alice to be the best bit of Channel 4 racing but I do now.
		
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 ROFL


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## Alec Swan (10 January 2014)

Cricket had the voices of John Arlott and Brian Johnston.  Wimbledon had Dan Maskell,  and today when we're lucky the voice John Macenroe.  Horse racing once had the voices of Downe,  Francome and though time has taken him from us,  Oaksey.  WHEN I would like to know,  will Ch4 wake up to the fact that you don't mend what isn't borken,  and what works well?

Rebranding loses far more followers than it ever attracts.

Alec.


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## Honeylight (11 January 2014)

However in response to Alec, many people on this forum & others did think it was broken. There was much criticism of McCruik & Derek Thompson. Sometimes not a lot of the horses pre-race were shown as Tommo was going round Shopping Villages & catering tents, interviewing the audience & minor celebrities. In the old days when it was John Oaksey, well that was completely different coverage, knowledgeable, respectful to horses & quality all round. Then we had Jimmy Lindley on the BBC & their flat coverage was excellent, whilst ITV's jumping just had the edge.


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## stormox (11 January 2014)

also, OP - we need horses! but joking aside I don't think anyone could say Mick Fitz isn't knowledgeable. But JF was THE BEST- articulate, honest, had his own opinions and gave them, could be serious or VERY funny (and very good looking  ). But Rishi- I have to turn off when that pratt comes on.......


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## Judgemental (11 January 2014)

stormox said:



			but joking aside
		
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No No Stormox we have to have jokes and gags - gags. 

I am on a crusade to inject some laughter, badinage, jocular double entendres.

Surely Claire as a top flight presenter has a whole raft of jolly jokes. If she can't remember them. All she needs is some flunky prompting her in her ear piece.

I can well imagin the gals at Pony Club Camp.  I would have willingly filled haynets for them If one was a willing Sycophantic Toady, filling haynets generated considerable favour.


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## claracanter (11 January 2014)

I have just watched today's Channel 4 racing. To be honest, I watched most of it in fast forward. There were no features on individual horses, in all but one race the horses were already at the start when we first saw them. Without the horses in the paddock, I find it hard to engage in the racing. It's not good enough. No passion, no humour, no love for the horse. If I wanted the attheraces channel I would have subscribed to it.
I wanted the eloquence of Downe for Terry's obituary.
No one was there to capture what it would have meant to Oaksey seeing  Carruthers battle on so bravely.
MF does his best but he's no JF
I don't know if I have the patience to keep watching


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## bonny (11 January 2014)

claracanter said:



			I have just watched today's Channel 4 racing. To be honest, I watched most of it in fast forward. There were no features on individual horses, in all but one race the horses were already at the start when we first saw them. Without the horses in the paddock, I find it hard to engage in the racing. It's not good enough. No passion, no humour, no love for the horse. If I wanted the attheraces channel I would have subscribed to it.
I wanted the eloquence of Downe for Terry's obituary.
No one was there to capture what it would have meant to Oaksey seeing  Carruthers battle on so bravely.
MF does his best but he's no JF
I don't know if I have the patience to keep watching
		
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I think this is a bit harsh, I've watched racing for years on the bbc and channel 4 and maybe we need to be a bit more grateful that channel 4 have continued such extensive coverage. I enjoyed the racing today, some of you are complaining for the sake of it, they are covering 2 meetings most weeks so races every 15 minutes or so and advert breaks to fit in, I for one find it hard to see how they could do it better....


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## Clodagh (12 January 2014)

It was a very busy day yesterday, they showed 8 races. I think they did OK, I quite like it and although I subscribe to RUK I tend to go to terrestrial once they start. Mick Fitz is great and the reason J McGrath did the obit was beacuse he knew Terry Biddlecombe very well. Not at all knocking Alistair Down, his oratory is superb.

Rishi has really improved, he has learned a lot. How anyone could mourn the moving on of John Mcirick is beyond me, the man was the biggest ****** on telly.


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## KautoStar1 (13 January 2014)

Not to mention the Morning Line failed to pick up on the fact that their Morning Line guest, Sam Twiston-Davies has landed the plumb ride on Big Bucks, which was in Sat mornings papers.  I loathe Big Mac, but he would have picked that up straight away.

Very pleased we still have racing on terrestrial tv, but Chan 4 do need to have a think about their presentation.  I don&#8217;t think the presenters are lacking in knowledge or even presenting skills, but they are ham strung with a poor format.  I do wish Mick Fitz would try to tip something other than a Nicky Henderson horse


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## Caledonia (13 January 2014)

KautoStar1 said:



			Not to mention the Morning Line failed to pick up on the fact that their Morning Line guest, Sam Twiston-Davies has landed the plumb ride on Big Bucks, which was in Sat mornings papers.  I loathe Big Mac, but he would have picked that up straight away.

Very pleased we still have racing on terrestrial tv, but Chan 4 do need to have a think about their presentation.  I don&#8217;t think the presenters are lacking in knowledge or even presenting skills, but they are ham strung with a poor format.  I do wish Mick Fitz would try to tip something other than a Nicky Henderson horse 

Click to expand...


In fairness it wasn't made public til after the ML had aired. 

Loads of speculation on twitter given PN's piece on Betfair, then the Telegraph article!

http://betting.betfair.com/horse-ra...be-riding-big-bucks-this-season-120114-9.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ho...cision-to-snub-stable-jockey-Darly-Jacob.html

Bit messy!!


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## KautoStar1 (14 January 2014)

Oh it was definitely public knowledge &#8211; it was in Sat mornings papers (well the Sun at least) and Nick Luck virtually admitted they&#8217;d missed the story later on.


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## pip6 (14 January 2014)

MrsD123 said:



			I don't see why ads on CH Racing are related to content,   they don't bet in the Emirates, and I think the idea is to get people to go there on holiday.
		
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They sponsor the programme. Ever wondered why the drugs issue has been treated so flippantly by them? Don't want to upset the boss after all.

You're absolutely right about the lack of love for the horses. I'm not talking fluffy bunny, but JF (who has anopther job at Oaksey House i believe) & MF appreciate what these animals give. I cannot abide listening to those, whose betting knowledge I respect, go on when they don't even ride or understand how to care for a horse. Yes Mr McGrath owns racehorses, but lets see him on one. See the animal beyond the betting slip or winners purse. They are flesh & blood, who give their all & deserve to be treated as individuals rather than an accumulation of statistics. They are phenominal animals & deserve more than Ch4 give. Maybe their boss should get his trainers to respect his charges as well & work to eradicate doping in racing & endurance, becoming a leading light in the middle east for clean sport & against animal abuse at all costs to win.

Only good thing they did was to get rid of that loud mouth prat.


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## Caledonia (14 January 2014)

KautoStar1 said:



			Oh it was definitely public knowledge  it was in Sat mornings papers (well the Sun at least) and Nick Luck virtually admitted theyd missed the story later on.
		
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Apologies - I don't ever look at the Sun content. 

Twitter, usually being the first place news breaks, didn't pick it up until after the ML was aired.


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## Judgemental (18 January 2014)

Really good programme today.


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## Clodagh (18 January 2014)

Judgemental said:



			Really good programme today.
		
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OMG. Are you being serious? I NEVER thought I would agree with you on anything, but thought today was excellent!


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## Alec Swan (18 January 2014)

Judgemental said:



			Really good programme today.
		
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How the programme has changed,  and how I agree with you.  Such a mix of views,  interviews and opinions.  I thought that the Claire B input was excellent,  she knows her stuff so why does she generally faff about with fripperies? There's no need.

I enjoyed the heart warming Henrietta K / Mick F interviews.  

A vastly improved programme,  I'd say!

Alec.


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## claracanter (18 January 2014)

I really enjoyed this afternoons programme. There were more horses, paddock discussions, informative interviews. The horse was right back at the heart of the programme. Well done Channel 4. Do you think they have been listening to the viewers?


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## Exploding Chestnuts (18 January 2014)

How annoying, I missed it!


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## Alec Swan (18 January 2014)

claracanter said:



			......... The horse was right back at the heart of the programme. .......
		
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This,  exactly,  and it's ^^^ this that's been missing.

Alec.


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## Judgemental (19 January 2014)

Clodagh said:



			OMG
		
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Yes,


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## madmav (19 January 2014)

Well it just shows one man's meat is another man's poison. I think Nick Luck is an excellent presenter. Simon Holt does a great job on the race commentary, I reckon. All of the women are spot on at their jobs (and Claire, Emma and Alice can all hold their own on a race horse, too). Mick Fitzgerald is coming on leaps and bounds. The other two blokes, whose names escape me, are lacklustre. Rishi is irritating. The only thing I miss about the Beeb's coverage is their lack of adverts. They do get on my nerves. But guess C4 has to pay the bills without the luxury of the BBC's licence fee.


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## Alec Swan (15 February 2014)

Chanel 4 comments this morning were,  at best,  barbed!!

So Lord Stevens has cleared Al Maktoum of any complicity in the doping scandal which has surrounded Godolphin,  has he?  

Maktoum commissioned the report,  FFS.  What did we expect?

Lord Stevens clearly laid the blame with junior management.  Does this man really think that those who follow racing,  and are passionate about the sport,  actually give any credibility to his thoughts?  Does Stevens actually think that we're THAT stupid?

Alec.


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## Clodagh (15 February 2014)

I think Maktoum thinks we are that stupid, and paid a man to agree with him.


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## AdorableAlice (15 February 2014)

If you have enough money most things can be achieved.  Cunningham was struggling to word his comments appropriately on The Morning Line today.  Tricky given the programmes sponsor.

What a farce.


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## Patterdale (15 February 2014)

Missed today due to no sodding electric. Day 3. 

I like Clare B, I hope they're going to utilise her experience a bit more.


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## Echo Bravo (15 February 2014)

Agree with Alec, yes they do think we are stupid. Look at their endurance horses, they have no love of horses, just pres(bug*er forgot how to spell it) but you know what I mean.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (16 February 2014)

Patterdale said:



			Missed today due to no sodding electric. Day 3. 

I like Clare B, I hope they're going to utilise her experience a bit more.
		
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Not at the expense of her olympic stuff.


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## Clodagh (16 February 2014)

I don't like CB but I did think the one program she has presented recently (was it NYD?) was better than usual, it was a bit more human overall, not just her bits.
Still they did OK yesterday, covering that many races is always going to be hard work and I really do think Rishi has improved.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (16 February 2014)

Yes Rishi is better than he was five years ago, still sometimes just a bit of a "spare best man" at a wedding . 
I did not see yesterday's Morning Line program, but if it was controversial, was Jim McGrath there, or was he on "diplomatic leave".  He does not mince words.


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## pip6 (17 February 2014)

Was also very surprised (& pleased) that they didn't take the report at face value. Took a stand despite he with the money pays for C4R, well done!

There was a recent FEI conference about cleaning up international endurance (please note in gb there are no such issues), and some certain middle east countries (those in the 'group 7' who are the source of the problem) refused to attend. Shows they have no intention of changing their ways, despite over 30 horses loosing their lives in these countries just this season. No other sport would accept this fatality level. Their response to FEI 'crackdown'? To run their races under national rules, not FEI so don't have to adhere to any of the rule changes. We should ban all horses & riders from these countries from all horse sport international competition, including racing, then they might think again.

Only this week there was a live stream race from Bahrain (one of the group 7 countries), where a horse approaching the finish slowed to a trot due to fatigue. The response was for the rider to beat hell out of the horse (in the uk whips are totally banned on the final circuit), then someone got out of one of the crew cars & using an object started to beat the horse, then several cars crowding the horse used their horns to try & scare the horse into going faster. This video made it to youtube, but 'disappeared' in under twelve hours.

Looks like the brown envelopes have been in use again.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (17 February 2014)

It is absolutely dreadful, I can understand racing has fatalities, and I think we in the UK do a lot to limit them, and have good H&S standards for both horse and jockeys.
I suspect this is not the case for other countries,and if the arabs want to win that much, all they need to do is buy all the best horses. That's what they do in T.B racing, why not endurance, and if these problems occur in "Arabia" all they need do is put up barriers like quarantine hospitality to stop competitors entering.
It was international outrage that curtailed the use of immigrant  boys on racing camels. the want to be seen as "not third world", but underneath they don' t care


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## justabob (17 February 2014)

Endurance is in full pelt in the Middle East. 20 horses killed through exhaustion this season. Videos showing crew behind exhausted horses beating them to the finishing line. Barbaric people who want to win at all costs and they have the power and money to rule racing in Europe. Sport of kings, don't think so. Sport of Arabs that have the propensity to cheat more like.


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## pip6 (18 February 2014)

Please write to royal windsor horse show & ask them to ban all people wishing to compete in their endurance race from the middle east. We should have the right to refuse entry to these people for races held in our own country! This is the email address:

sophiea@hpower.co.uk

BTW, it's over 30 horses killed in the current season in Bahrain (which with UAE & Qatar is in the group 7) alone.


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## pip6 (22 February 2014)

Brilliant journalist on ch4r this morning, has excellent grasp of steroid issue out of training. Hope people listen to him. Noticed presenter from last week who said Sheik Mo's report clearing himself of participating in doping of his horses not entirely to be trusted was missing, as was JM.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (22 February 2014)

pip6 said:



			Brilliant journalist on ch4r this morning, has excellent grasp of steroid issue out of training. Hope people listen to him. Noticed presenter from last week who said Sheik Mo's report clearing himself of participating in doping of his horses not entirely to be trusted was missing, as was JM.
		
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I have ordered his book dealing with Armstrong and all the rest.
I seem to recall at the time that Sheik Mhmd and the BHA were sharing a table to announce the setting up of an inquiry, ludicrous.............


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## cabrach (22 February 2014)

The ads are irritating, and all geared to the punter.  Claire is brilliant, she has lost a lot of weight - hope she is ok after her cancer scare of a few years ago.
Dishi Rishi does a good job, and I enjoy Mick Fitz's down to earth comments.  The others tend to over analyise everything, with their stats, facts and figures.  Having said all of that its wonderful to have 2-3 hours of top racing to watch on the telly every saturday afternoon.  And roll on Cheltenham !


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## Dobiegirl (22 February 2014)

I thought it was better today because they spent more time looking at horses in the paddock, thank goodness there was no Rishi, Alice continues to do a good job and her interviews are just like she is addressing a friend. Nice to see a small stable  Caroline Keevil having the big winner today, thought Irving looked tremendous too.


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## Alec Swan (23 February 2014)

MrsD123 said:



			.......
I seem to recall at the time that Sheik Mhmd and the BHA were sharing a table to announce the setting up of an inquiry, ludicrous.............
		
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One would have as much confidence in lunatics who were running an asylum.  The,  as you say,  'ludicrous' aspect to this is that those who agree to such an enquiry seem to think that the racing public are idiots.  We're not idiots (at least not theirs) and we should stand against such insulting behaviour.

Surely it's time for the puerile excuses and playground politics to be expelled.  It wont happen with the spineless BHA leading the field,  so if they are as inept as they sound,  then it's time for the common man to speak up.

I understand the limitations placed upon the Ch4 team,  and I admire their courage,  such as they're able to display.

Such a memorial service for Terry Biddlecomb,  and how I wish that we could have heard Alistair Downe's address,  in its entirety,  and clearly.  Can any clever bods on here,  find it on youtube?  I'd be forever grateful.

Alec.


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## Saneta (23 February 2014)

http://www.racingpost.com/news/hors...te/1607869/top/#newsArchiveTabs=last7DaysNews. Here you go Alec, does this help?


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## AdorableAlice (23 February 2014)

Saneta said:



http://www.racingpost.com/news/hors...te/1607869/top/#newsArchiveTabs=last7DaysNews. Here you go Alec, does this help?
		
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Thank you from me, I had hoped to read the tribute.


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## millikins (23 February 2014)

What a great tribute, thanks for posting.


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## Alec Swan (24 February 2014)

Saneta said:



http://www.racingpost.com/news/hors...te/1607869/top/#newsArchiveTabs=last7DaysNews. .......
		
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How strange,  I heard every single word.  The art of writing,  as we speak.  Saneta,  thank you.

Alec.


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## Saneta (24 February 2014)

You're welcome.  I agree with you, so very touching and personal...


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## claracanter (24 February 2014)

What a beautifully crafted piece. So moving.

( why oh why did Channel 4 get rid of him?)


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## Alec Swan (24 February 2014)

claracanter said:



			What a beautifully crafted piece. So moving.

( why oh why did Channel 4 get rid of him?)
		
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A question which many have asked,  and Ch4 have failed to answer.  

Alec.


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## Nosey (27 February 2014)

What a beautiful tribute..warts & all..a genuine & very eloquent account.


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## Alec Swan (4 March 2014)

I thought that Saturday's programme continued along the theme of improvement,  but noticed that the Godolphin Stud and Stable Staff Awards had their annual ceremony,  with prize money totalling a staggering £120,000.  Am I being churlish in the face of such generosity,  to suggest that being such a benefactor doesn't give anyone the right to disregard the rules and regulations which most of us seem to live by?  

Furthermore,  it now seems that Crisford,  the Godolphin racing manager has resigned,  and along with him,  and curiously worded,  were "3 members of the Veterinary Staff".  Were these 3 people qualified Vets,  and if they were,  are they remaining in practice?  Were those who were dismissed employed by outside Veterinary Practices?  Why have neither Stevens,  or the BHA released the names of those who were dismissed?

The problem with anything which Godolphin touches,  it seems to me,  ends up posing ever more questions,  and without offering up any acceptable answers.  When are the BHA going to step up and face the problems,  rather than defending a constant rearguard action?  When?

Alec.


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## Caledonia (4 March 2014)

This link might give you a clue as to the Godolphin Three! 

http://www.britishhorseracing.presscentre.com/imagelibrary/downloadMedia.ashx?MediaDetailsID=236

Vets mentioned are Rob Pilsworth (Veterinary Surgeon based primarily at the Snailwell Road yard of Saeed Bin Suroor, but also providing occasional cover at Moulton Paddocks); and
Chris Osborne (Veterinary Surgeon based primarily at the Snailwell Road yard of Saeed Bin Suroor, but also providing occasional cover at Moulton Paddocks);Veterinary Surgeon Dr Fred Van Der Linde.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (4 March 2014)

Well, its a nightmare. 
I am reading Dave Walsh ' s book on the drugs culture in cycling, where it was quite evident from the times that drugs were being used year on year. It seems that of the hundreds of reporters, only one or two wanted to stand apart from the drugs culture, and some even joined in!
Same thing when senior athletes start to break personal best times, it must have been obvious to journalists what was going on. 
It is not so easy with racing, where there are more on track and training variables and new horses coming in to training every year.
The people involved tend to be arrogant, saying, well we are the best anyway, so what is the difference between taking a legal drink and a stimulant, the rules are not there to help us but something to get round.


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## Judgemental (4 March 2014)

There are three words that encapsulate the issue:

DOMINANT FINANCIAL POSITION


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## Exploding Chestnuts (4 March 2014)

Judgemental said:



			There are three words that encapsulate the issue:

DOMINANT FINANCIAL POSITION
		
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But they already have it, they are constantly buying up all the top horses, having discovered that breeding does not guarantee success. 
It can only be arrogance, using drugs on a routine yet illegal basis can only lead to destruction of the industry, loss of faith, disinterest and disgust. That's what happens when there are two streams, the doped and the undoped.


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## pip6 (5 March 2014)

http://horsetalk.co.nz/2014/03/03/cuckson-formal-protest-endurance-race-bahrain/#ixzz2uun3GdZm

Excellent piece as ever.

IMHO I'm rather worried by the position being taken of gb fei riders, of we are going to enter windsor to beat them clean, after an 'inspirational' speech by a swimmer who did that given at the international conference. That person was a human, who made the choice to train hard enough to beat dirty swimmers as he wanted to win the race so much. Horses can't make that choice, & have no knowledge of why they are working. That riders (who are also usually the trainers in the uk), are willing to train their horses at least as hard as those training on steroids/painkillers makes me question if this is an ethical idea. The horse can't decide it wants to train at that level to win a race. Also will it increase the incidence of injuries mainly seen in the dirty countries at present such as stress fractures as they try to work the horses harder / faster in order to win? Personally I'm not comfortable with the desperate to win at any cost to prove a point which seems to be coming through. The swimmer made a choice about himself, the horses don't get the choice. Surely it is far better for the fei to clean itself up & grow balls, refuse the oil dollar & only allow nations that can show good testing in & out of competition whoever owns the horse to compete.


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## Alec Swan (8 March 2014)

I see that A.P.McCoy wont be riding for a day or two,  as his young son Archie is now having cardiac surgery,  and understandably,  his mind will be with his boy.

I'm sure that everyone will join with in wishing the youthful Master McCoy a speedy recovery,  and also join with me in reminding the young man,  that he has colossal boots to fill!

Praying for your return to full health,  young man.

Alec.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (8 March 2014)

Alec Swan said:



			I see that A.P.McCoy wont be riding for a day or two,  as his young son Archie is now having cardiac surgery,  and understandably,  his mind will be with his boy.

I'm sure that everyone will join with in wishing the youthful Master McCoy a speedy recovery,  and also join with me in reminding the young man,  that he has colossal boots to fill!

Praying for your return to full health,  young man.

Alec.
		
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I expect AP will suggest the becomes an accountant if he has any sense


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## millikins (8 March 2014)

MrsD123 said:



			I expect AP will suggest the becomes an accountant if he has any sense
		
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Like!


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## Alec Swan (11 March 2014)

Caledonia said:



			.......

http://www.britishhorseracing.presscentre.com/imagelibrary/downloadMedia.ashx?MediaDetailsID=236

Vets mentioned are Rob Pilsworth (Veterinary Surgeon based primarily at the Snailwell Road yard of Saeed Bin Suroor, but also providing occasional cover at Moulton Paddocks); and
Chris Osborne (Veterinary Surgeon based primarily at the Snailwell Road yard of Saeed Bin Suroor, but also providing occasional cover at Moulton Paddocks);Veterinary Surgeon Dr Fred Van Der Linde.
		
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Having read the report,  and thank you for that,  am I the only one who comes away with the feeling that the investigating body bent over backwards to give a report which would exonerate all those who were responsible,  and lay the blame at the doors of those who weren't?  It would seem that none of the Vets,  OR the Head Lads knew what was going on,  those being responsible for the administration of illegal drugs being the 'unsupervised' junior staff.  Really?  And that's a report from the BHA?  Where,  I'm wondering does this corruption of the truth end?

Were those vets who were apparently oblivious to the goings-on,  employed directly by Godolphin,  or were they employed within outside practices and on secondment to Godolphin?  If they were employed directly by Godolphin then any future vet who accepts employment,  and within that organisation will be fully aware of the requests which will be made of them,  and will presumably be prepared to be struck off,  following further investigations.

Alec.

Ets,  and having just done a bit of modest research,  I find that Rob Pilsworth is in the employment of The NEH.


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## BigBuck's (11 March 2014)

My issue with C4 Racing, and particularly with the Morning Line (which I've virtually stopped watching) is that alone of all sports, it feels the need to dumb down in the fruitless quest for non-racing viewers.  All the other sports I watch - football, F1, snooker, occasionally rugby - seem to trust their fans to appreciate sensible, detailed previews and analysis and to be able to put the match / race in some sort of context.  I'm not sure why the C4 Racing production team can't do the same.

Concentrate on the horses, show the betting but don't let it dominate, recruit articulate presenters who know and love the sport inside out (more Richard Hoiles would be a good start), show the action clearly and keep the arty shots for the replays.   It's not rocket science.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (11 March 2014)

I think I heard the dulcet tones of Alistair Down


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## Alec Swan (11 March 2014)

MrsD123 said:



			I think I heard the dulcet tones of Alistair Down 

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And so you did.  And weren't they so welcome?

(That's not how Down would have written,  but who cares?)!!  

Alec.


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## Judgemental (13 March 2014)

Generally the coverage at Cheltenham is good and the production team are meeting our expectations in terms of focusing on horses in the paddock and on the course.

However I am bored beyond measure of all these people, sitting about in arm chairs pontificating on the finer points of horses or jockeys etc.

Frankly I am not interested, I am quite capable of making my own judgment and it's not as if there is anything in terms of amusement.

Everybody who has anything to do with racing and horses, seems to lack any sort of sense of humor, most of all the commentators!

Claire go on make my day and crack a really good joke?

Even the interviews in the paddock and elsewhere are getting pretty tedious. 

Yes interviews in moderation but there is too much grandstanding by the same old faces.

But as in school reports, "we have seen a much better term, tries hard but could do better"


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## Judgemental (31 March 2014)

Saturday's Morning Line and Channel Four Racing surpassed all expectations, along with the excellent reports and coverage of the Dubai Gold Cup.

However as I have said before we need some levity, a few good one liners, puns, double entendres and witty jocular comments.

It all so serious. Come on guys, add some colour and badinage.

Good reporting from the paddock which is much improved.

Not too sure about the very young lady interviewing the winning jockeys &#8211; didn&#8217;t catch the name. She needs to up her game and do something about all that hair.

Which brings me to Dubai, didn&#8217;t Emma do well and she smiles all the time she is talking and looking at the interviewee. A positive ray of sunshine.

What I did like and that is the mounted interviewer of the winning jockey as happens in the States. Very smart and wholly appropriate.

Why can't that be facilitated with Channel Four. I always feel that somebody flapping, with a microphone on a stick, alongside the winning jockey and horse, half obscured by the groom leading the horse and/or excited owner or trainer getting in the way, lowers the tone of that type of reporting and interview.

Can't Channel Four afford a decent hack to put these interviewers on. I assume they can all ride? Hack! Get it, perhaps I should write their equine one liners for them?


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## Chiffy (31 March 2014)

They did try mounted interviewing some years ago with Lesley Graham....it was terrible! Does anyone else remember?


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## Judgemental (31 March 2014)

Chiffy said:



			They did try mounted interviewing some years ago with Lesley Graham....it was terrible! Does anyone else remember?
		
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Well Lesley Graham is no longer with the programme.

I suggest any one of those currently gounded would love to be mounted when interviewing winning Jockeys.


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## Echo Bravo (31 March 2014)

And what is wrong in the groom and owner getting some of the glory as one looks after it and the other owns and pays the bills what ever happens.


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## Judgemental (31 March 2014)

Echo Bravo said:



			And what is wrong in the groom and owner getting some of the glory as one looks after it and the other owns and pays the bills what ever happens.
		
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None whatsoever but it detracts from what the jockey is saying. Generally the groom and owner receive sufficent applause in the winners circle.

I am certain that if Calire Balding were properly mounted she would bring a whole new dimension to her interviewing technics and her presentation.


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## Echo Bravo (31 March 2014)

And that way you never see the working part of the whole, just bloody Clare Balding taking the glory. Give me the groom and happy owners and trainers anytime.


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## Daffodil (1 April 2014)

I can't think of anything worse than to import the totally naff concept of mounted interviews.  The thought of Claire Balding, Richi Persad etc. conducting interviews while trying to control a horse they probably don't know could be quite entertaining but would contribute nothing to professional racing coverage.
The spotlight should rightly be on the horse and jockey, and their connections.
In fact, I'd happily dispense with the after race interviews altogether.  They rarely contribute much, half the time you can't understand what the jockey is saying and you can almost see the jockey gritting his teeth when he sees that microphone come towards him.   Choc Thornton has the right idea and refuses to give instant interviews, his view being that his first duty is to horse, trainer and owners and to give them his verdict, rather than a hasty and ill thought out answer to an inane question to the audience.   A view I totally agree with.

However, I do like seeing Alice Plunkett interviewing the groom and owners, who very definitely deserve their moment in the sun.  She has such a natural raport with them all.

Lesley Graham couldn't conduct an interview on her own feet, there was no way she'd manage on a horse.


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## Chiffy (1 April 2014)

Haha Daffodil, I so agree with all of your post. I was never a fan of Lesley but was trying to not say too much. She rode a cob, most of the time the poor horse who had just won the race didn't want to get anywhere near the cob, there was still the waving microphone and a lot of heavy breathing!
I also don't agree with the instant interviews, Choc has the right idea.


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## claracanter (3 April 2014)

I watched the first day of Channel 4's Aintree coverage today. I was very happy with it because they had a good mix of everything and the horses were given a lot of coverage. Undoubtedly the best bit was Alistair Down's piece on families involved in the Grand National. Something about that man's delivery that always gets me emotional.


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## Judgemental (4 April 2014)

claracanter said:



			I watched the first day of Channel 4's Aintree coverage today. I was very happy with it because they had a good mix of everything and the horses were given a lot of coverage. Undoubtedly the best bit was Alistair Down's piece on families involved in the Grand National. Something about that man's delivery that always gets me emotional.
		
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I agree. I am sure Alistair will in the fulness of time, rank with 'the greats' of racing commentary such as Peter O'Sullivan. 

Thought the Foxhunters was an outstanding race. 

Do I put money on Long Run and Sam Whaley-Cohen on Saturday...........thinks.............?


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## claracanter (4 April 2014)

Judgemental said:



			I agree. I am sure Alistair will in the fulness of time, rank with 'the greats' of racing commentary such as Peter O'Sullivan. 

Thought the Foxhunters was an outstanding race. 

Do I put money on Long Run and Sam Whaley-Cohen on Saturday...........thinks.............?
		
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Wasn't it great to see no horse falls in the Foxhunters. Lets hope this is because of the latest modifications to the National fences. The horses who made mistakes were able to stay on their feet rather than somersaulting over. I am a great lover of the sport but worry about the future of a race with such a poor safety record for horses.


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## Brochdoll (4 April 2014)

It was fab to see them all come home safe. The 2 running loose near the front did nearly give me a heart attack though! SWC did really well!


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## humblepie (4 April 2014)

Wow - what some jumps by Holywell just winning at Aintree.  Must be an awesome feeling almost like flying.


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## JCWHITE (4 April 2014)

That grey mare was amazing!


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## Judgemental (12 April 2014)

It is all most satisfactory.

However in my humble opinion I don't think Owners,Trainers or Jockeys like being interviewed in the Paddock just before the bell goes.

The period when the horses come into the Paddock and the jockeys mount, should be entirely private.

Having sombody darting about with a microphone it not welcome and as a viewer, I find it embarrising.

All parties are mentally 'hyped up' and don't need to have the hassel of having to give a soundbite.

By all means get as many soundbites as possible after the race. 

I noted that Claire tried to get a sound bite from The Presidents of both Oxford and Cambridge crews, whilst they were traditionally lined up, just before the start of the boat race.

Did she get a sound bite or comment. NO and it was obvious they did not welcome her intrusion!


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## Elf On A Shelf (12 April 2014)

Its Scottish National day! We run 3 and whilst it would be wonderful for Lie Forrit to win I prefer Green Flags chances. 

But the big question is - Will Battle Group start today or not?!?


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## Alec Swan (12 April 2014)

Any horse,  Battle Group or not,  who wont jump off at the start should be left behind,  and barred from any future racing.  It simply isn't fare on the rest of the field.  It's like flat horses which wont load,  why should others have to stand in the stalls and be wound up,  whilst they wait?

If B_G wont start,  shoot the bloody thing.

Alec.


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## scotlass (12 April 2014)

Battle Group decided not to bother today again.    He was lucky to be given a second chance by the starter, and they did eventually get him to canter half a circuit, without jumping anything, but he joins the great characters of Chaninbar and Mad Moose being sent to the naughty step at the BHA


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## Elf On A Shelf (12 April 2014)

The starter was told beforehand not to allow Battle Group a second chance. If he didn't go first time don't recall and wait for him. But the starter still did anyway ... Bad Hammy Hamster! He'll get a ban from the BHA now I suspect and as much as I love the wee toerag it would be well deserved.

Our horses didn't stay simples. Slightly disappointed in Green Flag but he is a young horse who has plenty of years and big races in him.


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## 3Beasties (12 April 2014)

I though Green flag ran a good race till the end when he tired rapidly, didn't think he would make it over the final fence!!

Very impressed with the winner who also ran yesterday! Have never known that before, is it common practice?


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## Elf On A Shelf (12 April 2014)

Just flicked up the full results - the wee monkey did go in the end but was miles behind, jumped 8 fences then pulled up.  They should send him back up here to me


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## starr_g (12 April 2014)

3beasties - it was La Bacardy who won the race before the Scottish National that ran yesterday and was second. Al Co hasn't run since December.


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## Alec Swan (12 April 2014)

A rather poor alternative I accept,  but do you suppose,  that with a fresh approach,  he might take to Eventing?  He is as you say,  a wee monkey!  

There's obviously a huge resistance and he really doesn't want to,  and wont,  race.  It must be so frustrating for his owners,  his trainer and their staff.

Alec.


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## Elf On A Shelf (12 April 2014)

Alec Swan said:



			A rather poor alternative I accept,  but do you suppose,  that with a fresh approach,  he might take to Eventing?  He is as you say,  a wee monkey!  

There's obviously a huge resistance and he really doesn't want to,  and wont,  race.  It must be so frustrating for his owners,  his trainer and their staff.

Alec.
		
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In all honesty - no, I don't think he would event. He is a complete tearaway at home, always has been. If he went round an  xc course I doubt you would have the greatest steering. Team Chasing on the other hand I do think he would enjoy to an extent. But he really is proof that no matter what you think or what you try you can't make a horse race that doesn't want to.


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## scotlass (12 April 2014)

EKW said:



			Just flicked up the full results - the wee monkey did go in the end but was miles behind, jumped 8 fences then pulled up.  They should send him back up here to me 

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I didn't think he jumped anything.  When the camera on C4 happened to have him in shot, he was cantering down the side of the course at the far rail.

EKW - I thought Green Flag went well.   He clearly tired quickly, but then so did a few others I thought would have got round.   Maybe the brisk wind played a factor, and the winner's time was slow

Battle Group may just have to become a celebrity like Mad Moose and get his own Twitter page


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## Elf On A Shelf (12 April 2014)

To be fair GF ran a cracking race, another year older, another year stronger and we will see a different horse. When you work with them everyday you kind of half refuse to see the obvious with them. He has been working great, schoolibg great, and his lad has the biggest gob and ego of the whole yard so GF is all you hear about lol!


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## Regandal (12 April 2014)

I hate seeing them whipped home.  It would be great if they implemented the suggestion by AP McCoy - no whip after the final fence.


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## Alec Swan (12 April 2014)

Regandal said:



			I hate seeing them whipped home.  It would be great if they implemented the suggestion by AP McCoy - no whip after the final fence.
		
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Good Lord!  Radical?  Possibly,  but would all NH racing benefit from such a ruling?  I rather fancy giving it a trial run.  Will those who set the rules of racing listen to those who ride?  Not a ****ing chance!! 

Alec.

EKW,  what do you suppose would be the reaction to such a ruling?  It has some appeal,  I suspect.


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## Elf On A Shelf (12 April 2014)

I think if they banned backhanders after the last and only allowed showing and down the shoulder slaps to keep the horse straight if it's drifting jockeys would give it a shot. But then again a lot of races are won and lost after the last so it probably wouldn't be well received by many. It would also depend on the track - some have longer run ins than others. What happens if the last is omited? Or the last 2 fences are omitted? Do you take it from the last fence you jumped or from when you go past the actual last fence?

It would be interesting to see a trial of it - but then we have Hands and Heels races for conditionals so you could actually see that it could work in principle.


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## Elf On A Shelf (12 April 2014)

Battle Group has been retired  For the best whilst he is still in one piece!


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## bonny (12 April 2014)

I imagine retired before he was banned !


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## Elf On A Shelf (12 April 2014)

bonny said:



			I imagine retired before he was banned !
		
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Aye and before he got himself hurt. He's won over 100k so he owes no one anything and I know his owners are big gamblers so will have won plenty on him over the years. I'll not say how much they won when he won his first Bumper at Perth ... If I remember rightly he would have 2 more chances to race before being banned.


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## bonny (12 April 2014)

I don't think that's right, today could well have been his last chance....academic if he's been retired but judging on today's performance he wouldn't have raced again anyway, he meant what he was saying !


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## Alec Swan (12 April 2014)

bonny said:



			....... he wouldn't have raced again anyway, he meant what he was saying !
		
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Correct.  He wasn't having it,  and that was that!  Period,  End-of,  Full Stop,  attach what you like to it,  the horse has a mind of his own.  I could summon up a bit of respect,  for that!!

As a matter of minor importance EKW,  do you know how old the horse is?  A question of minor importance,  you understand! :wink3:

Alec.


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## Regandal (12 April 2014)

Alec Swan said:



			Will those who set the rules of racing listen to those who ride?  Not a ****ing chance!! 

Alec.
		
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This was put forward at a meeting of all 'interested' parties prior to the whip rule changes.  Jockeys were there, along with welfare group representatives.  I think it was reported in H & H.


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## bonny (12 April 2014)

He's 9


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## Elf On A Shelf (12 April 2014)

He's only 9 but has come under starters orders 44 times - 4 times he refused to race and there were another 1 or 2 that I can remember that he wouldn't leave the collecting area so technically didn't come under starters orders and thus goes down as a non-runner lol!


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## Alec Swan (12 April 2014)

bonny said:



			He's 9
		
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That's no age at all,  were he placed in the right hands.  That's not showing a disrespect to his current trainers,  just a suggestion that there may be those who would take him on,  and approach the animal from another direction.

There's another way of looking at this;  Retired?  At 9 years of age?  Honestly?  I had a bash at early retirement when I was 34 years old.  It didn't work,  I was bored witless.

Alec.


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## Elf On A Shelf (12 April 2014)

You never know - we may see him in the Foxhunters next year! He may have retired from Rules racing but there's nothing to say they won't attempt (Could be interesting!) to take him hunting and then pointing? He might like having a wee amateur to take the mick out of!


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## bonny (12 April 2014)

Can't see him pointing and I very much doubt he would be allowed to or would want to !


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## Exploding Chestnuts (13 April 2014)

3Beasties said:



			I though Green flag ran a good race till the end when he tired rapidly, didn't think he would make it over the final fence!!

Very impressed with the winner who also ran yesterday! Have never known that before, is it common practice?
		
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It s not common practice, though more likely in flat racing than jumps obviously, they must have been pretty confident he fas pretty fit and not tired.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (13 April 2014)

EKW said:



			The starter was told beforehand not to allow Battle Group a second chance. If he didn't go first time don't recall and wait for him. But the starter still did anyway ... Bad Hammy Hamster! He'll get a ban from the BHA now I suspect and as much as I love the wee toerag it would be well deserved.

.
		
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The commentator explained that technically he had not come under orders as he was so far out the back, he was not on the course proper. So perhaps the starter had no choice but to hold up the others.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (13 April 2014)

Alec Swan said:



			That's no age at all,  were he placed in the right hands.  That's not showing a disrespect to his current trainers,  just a suggestion that there may be those who would take him on,  and approach the animal from another direction.

There's another way of looking at this;  Retired?  At 9 years of age?  Honestly?  I had a bash at early retirement when I was 34 years old.  It didn't work,  I was bored witless.

Alec.
		
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They will have tried to refresh him, but he is as bad a case as can be seen, probably find a little yard and try to get him sweetened up, but he might make a good hunter.
Most likely he has been over-raced and pushed too hard when the money is on.


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## Alec Swan (13 April 2014)

My only knowledge of racing is what I see and read,  so I've no real experience.  What strikes me as a little odd is that on the day,  the owners and trainer bring a horse to a race course only to have him,  in the case of B_G,  behave as he did.  

Here's the question,  if the animal behaved as he did,  at home,  and when he's on the gallops,  then presumably they wouldn't bother to bring him out.  Would I be right,  or is he badly behaved all the time?  Would I also be right in thinking that at home he behaves correctly,  it's just on race days that he shuts down?  Is it the fact that he simply wont race,  any longer?  

I also don't understand what is meant by retirement.  He's only 9 years old,  so would such a horse simply spend the rest of his days standing in a paddock,  or is retirement a euphemism for being shot?  He's a horse upon which a great deal of money has been spent,  and he would have been of considerable value,  but his current refusal to race would render him useless and worthless as a race horse,  I'd have thought.

Assuming that he's not a raving lunatic,  his owners should let me have him,  for a while.  I know of a first class girl,  who'd take him on!!  I realise that that wont happen,  but I keep coming back to the fact that he's still only a young animal,  and the prospect of 'nothing' seems terribly wasteful.

Alec.


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## Caledonia (13 April 2014)

I think retirement means simply from racing in this context - given that he has jumped (or not! ) before he was pushed. Although he's changed trainers a lot, he appears to have had the same owners right the way through, so I expect they find him a decent home. Might be worth sending the trainer an email if you have a friend who wants to offer him a home!


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## Exploding Chestnuts (13 April 2014)

The only way to find out if he will refuse is to bring him to the race, its pretty obvious he has had enough, so will be found a new home.
He probably is quirky at home, but they are able to get him fit, so can't be too bad.
We had one who was not the greatest horse, but once at Cheltenham he was leading the race [leaders fell!], decided that was not his style and ran out!
He would probably have come round if we had found him a lad who would string him along and take him hunting and never ask for any effort!


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## Maesfen (13 April 2014)

Regandal said:



			I hate seeing them whipped home.  It would be great if they implemented the suggestion by AP McCoy - no whip after the final fence.
		
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There'd be a lot of races he wouldn't have won then if that were so!

On an entirely different subject.  Can you imagine how upset the sponsors of the first million pound Grand National were when Ch 4 were so wrapped up with the replay, that they didn't even show the presentation?  That was very bad from the producers/editors; they won't be forgiven next time for that.


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## Elf On A Shelf (13 April 2014)

MrsD123 said:



			The only way to find out if he will refuse is to bring him to the race, its pretty obvious he has had enough, so will be found a new home.
He probably is quirky at home, but they are able to get him fit, so can't be too bad.
We had one who was not the greatest horse, but once at Cheltenham he was leading the race [leaders fell!], decided that was not his style and ran out!
He would probably have come round if we had found him a lad who would string him along and take him hunting and never ask for any effort!
		
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When we had Battle Group he was a tear away. He bombed everywhere and Had a ball. Last time I spoke to a lad at Pipes he was the same, no one could hold him no matter what they did with him - up front, tucked in, walled in, on his own, one other, any number of bits or gadgets couldn't really stop him - it made no difference he still bombed everywhere.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (13 April 2014)

Its not an irrelevance that audience figures are falling, this affects revenue from ads, it was a good program, all round interest, good mix of characters, and so on.
No longer.


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## Regandal (13 April 2014)

Alec, my friend has one who also voted with his feet - 'not for me, thanks'.  He is the sweetest horse, you could put your granny on him.  He's good XC, brakes variable, need to ensure at least half a field to cruise to a halt. Fabulous horse.


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## Exploding Chestnuts (15 April 2014)

Alec Swan said:



			Assuming that he's not a raving lunatic,  his owners should let me have him,  for a while.  I know of a first class girl,  who'd take him on!!  I realise that that wont happen,  but I keep coming back to the fact that he's still only a young animal,  and the prospect of 'nothing' seems terribly wasteful.

Alec.
		
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From a later post about the horse, it sounds as though he is a raving lunatic, so will be difficult to re-home. The future does not look good for a horse which is really only suited to professional handling, [ suitable riders and facilities]. If he is a danger to staff, it is a difficult situation for all concerned.


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## Honeylight (15 April 2014)

I just watched some of the Saturday coverage I missed by going away for a weekend. I was again disappointed they failed to show runners before some of the races. I think many people would have liked to see the fillies before The Fred Darling Stakes. If you were wanting to have a bet in the 1000 guineas it is important to see how they have gone through the winter and if they might come on for the race, the same with the colts and the older horses in the John Porter. Yet they will rabbit on for ages in their cabin about betting, where looking is as important, much more so than statistics.


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## Clodagh (15 April 2014)

Honeylight said:



			I just watched some of the Saturday coverage I missed by going away for a weekend. I was again disappointed they failed to show runners before some of the races. I think many people would have liked to see the fillies before The Fred Darling Stakes. If you were wanting to have a bet in the 1000 guineas it is important to see how they have gone through the winter and if they might come on for the race, the same with the colts and the older horses in the John Porter. Yet they will rabbit on for ages in their cabin about betting, where looking is as important, much more so than statistics.
		
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I don't understand why they can't rabbit on about betting while looking at the horses, instead of at talking heads?


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## Judgemental (18 May 2014)

Saturday's programme was outstanding.

I liked the very informative anchoring by Claire at Newbury and Emma in York or was she in Newmarket, excellent stuff and clear reporting from the paddock.

Coupled to the spice of the Scoop 6


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## Alec Swan (24 May 2014)

Sorry to see that because of the 'going',  so many horses have today,  the 24th.,  been withdrawn.  

Alec.


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## Alec Swan (24 May 2014)

How wonderful to see Joyeues win for Lady Cecil,  and how equally wonderful to see the joy that Frankel's half sister brought!  I would sell my soul for such a filly!!

Alec.


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