# Advice needed please - awful situation - strangles



## antigone (27 December 2015)

I would very much appreciate thoughts on how I should proceed in what is a horrible situation. 

Until June of this year I had two lovely cobs- one ridden and one retired. Sadly the retired mare had to be pts. This was not sudden and I had time to arrange to adopt a rescue pony (from a well known charity) as the geldings new companion. She was a delight and all was well until September when she was slightly unwell but recovered within 24hrs. Seen by vet and illness thought to be related to recent dental work. Dentist said she had not had her teeth done for years.

Two weeks later my gelding became very unwell - noisy breathing, high temperature but no swellings/discharge. He did not improve and was subsequently scoped and diagnosed with strangles. The rescue pony's blood test as also positive. His lymph nodes were enormous and he had to be admitted for an emergency tracheostomy. His new friend went with him. She was also scoped and her gutteral pouches were found to be full of chondroids. She had surgery to help clear this.

To cut a very long and sad story short he is home but still has his tracheostomy in place. He cannot breath without it. The lymph nodes on his right side are still enormous and there is no sign that abscesses will burst soon. The temporary trachy is getting scarred and will not be useable much longer. As time goes on I am told it becomes less likely that there will be a burst and he may have the swelling long term. So the only answer for him is a permanent trachy BUT he will probably continue to be a strangles carrier. With his tube in he is relatively well and enjoying life in the field.

On top of all this the pony companion has "reactivated" her strangles and also has a lot of mucus in her upper airway. She is very unwell today.

I just don't know what to do. If she gets worse she could go back to hospital for further surgery but there is no guarantee that this will make her "clean" or cure her. She gets stressed very easily and I would hate her to become so upset again. It is not really a money issue but she is uninsured as the charity rather unhelpfully put her age as unknown in the passport. I was told she was 6. If she stays here and I have to have her put to sleep the vet has suggested that the gelding could live here alone. (Obviously I cannot get another companion). The gelding has never been good on his own but he is more independent since he lost his long term friend in the summer. 

If the crunch comes should I try it or should I just have him pts too? It seems so wrong to do this to him when he is relatively well but is it fair to keep him alone? I love him dearly and cannot imagine my life without him but this has to be for him, not me. I have them both at home, we don't compete and could live with not hacking out/ visiting friends horses anymore.

Any opinions brutal or otherwise appreciated.  sorry for such a long post.


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## Mongoose11 (27 December 2015)

I wouldn't keep any horse alive in those circstances and would have my beloved mare pts rather than live with the permanent tracheotomy. Very sorry for your predicament


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## Cinnamontoast (27 December 2015)

What a ruddy awful situation, I'm very sad for you. If the trach will not be useable for much longer, what are the options? I think, if it were me, I might PTS both, but I'm not you and only you can decide. 

I love your username, but it's very poignant.


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## MrsMozart (27 December 2015)

So very sorry hunny. Sounds like you've done all that can be done. 

If they were mine I'd have them both put to sleep. But, that's what I'd do,  you know your horses and yourself and you have to do what's right for all of you, with the horses coming first.


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## antigone (27 December 2015)

Thank you both for taking the time to reply. Cinnamontoast he would have to have a permanent trachy - 1hr operation, general anaesthetic (in field or hospital). These are also irreversible so if his abscesses did eventually burst he would always have the trachy whether he needed it or not. He is about to turn 18, has mild COPD and mild arthritis in hocks/SI, too. I suppose I just don't ant to face the truth. Who would?


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## EmmaC78 (27 December 2015)

cinnamontoast said:



			If the trach will not be useable for much longer, what are the options?
		
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I got the impression that the temporary trach would not be useable much longer but that a permanent one would be an option.

I am sorry for the situation you have ended up in OP.  It sounds like an impossible decision.


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## Shay (27 December 2015)

So Sorry OP.  You have asked a very difficult question and you are doing absolutely the right thing by asking it.  In your position and without the emotional attachment you clearly have I would have agreed with the others that PTS is sadly the best option.  But we're not in your shoes.  Whatever you choose will be right because you cared enough to ask the question.  <<Hugs>>


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## honetpot (27 December 2015)

How unlucky you have been. I wouldn't want to keep a pony on its own, and at the back of my mind would be the 'strangles police' who whip themselves into hysteria if they found out you had a carrier. What does the charity say?  I would try to think I had done my best and let go of them both, otherwise you will be left with a constant worry with no end in sight. Another hug from me.


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## antigone (27 December 2015)

Thanks all of you, you are very kind. The charity is keeping very quiet and I have had no contact from them or about a month but it was my boy and not the pony who as initially very poorly. She is not even mine yet as the adoption is not complete but I had permission to pts when we thought he was going to die and I don't think there would be a problem with that. I must admit I have felt quite abandoned by them. They clearly do not want her back. Poor little thing - she is such a sweetie. I would say to anyone considering adoption that you should get them tested. I didn't and am paying the ultimate price for that. I clearly did not know enough about strangles. That is one reason I went to a well established charity - to be safer. Not their fault either, though, is it?

Yes, honetpot I am sure tongues would wag if I kept a carrier but I am very careful about clothing and footwear and handwashing and don't visit other horses now. Its more about his long term welfare if kept alone.

Does anyone know if I could vaccinate a potential companion or is that just ridiculous? Don't know which end is up at the moment


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## Peregrine Falcon (27 December 2015)

I am very sorry to hear of your predicament.  There was a vaccine some years back but it proved to be ineffective and was taken off the market.

I think in your shoes I would have both PTS to be honest.  Your gelding sounds like he's been unlucky and would you really want to put him through more treatment?  Would the charity have the mare back as the adoption is not yet complete? 

I hope that you find the solution that suits you and the animals best interests.


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## Clodagh (27 December 2015)

I am so terribly sorry for the situation you are in, it doesn't bear thinking about.
Only you can decide but for what it is worth I would give the temporary one as long as possible and when that is no more use and if the swelling is still there I would PTS both.


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## ozpoz (27 December 2015)

What a horrible situation for you. 
I would have them put to sleep,from what you have described. It doesn't sound as if surgery would be in the little mare's best interest and your much loved boy has been through the mill already. I'm so sorry if this is not the kind of opinion you want to hear, but is is just an opinion.


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## julie111 (27 December 2015)

Gosh what a horrible situation to be in! I would have both pts, I would never keep a horse on its own or one that had to have a permanent trachy. Big hugs and good luck with whatever option you go with!


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## Kaylum (27 December 2015)

Terrible situation and the charity well they must think it's going to cost them money and a lot of the well known ones run as businesses rather than rescue charities. Anyway I think I would pts but it's a very hard decision for you to make and it's easy to say when your on the outside.


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## Princess16 (27 December 2015)

Oh how awful and what rotten luck. It's certainly gives one something to think about (I'm thinking of a rescue) so thank you for pointing out pitfalls although I know your case is rare.

FWIW I too would PTS but it's your decision and no-one can berate you for what you decide to do. 

I'm so sorry x


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## honetpot (27 December 2015)

I know the Animal Health Trust have done a lot of work on strangles, I wonder if its worth seeing if they will take a referral for some advice. Then at least you can say to the charity you have had the best advice, to be honest if she is not signed over I would be worried they would back track. I have loaned out ponies and I would never leave a loaner in this situation, one died out on loan and I paid all the bills and did all the organising.
http://www.aht.org.uk/cms-display/strangles.html


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## AutumnLeaf (27 December 2015)

I have nothing to add from what the others have posted. 
I'm very sorry you're in this situation. I'm sure you'll make the best choice. 
Thinking of you and sending hugs


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## paddy555 (27 December 2015)

You are in a terrible position but my question would be "does the gelding have a quality of life" that to me is the only question that  matters. Will he cope on his own? no one can answer that question until he is on his own. He may cope well, who knows or he may not. I had a terribly bonded gelding whose companion died. For 3 days he was a nightmare but after that he did cope albeit not alone. So on the mental part I would allow a bit of time. On the clinical part I would ask if he was suffering. If he had a reasonably quality of life I would let him get on with it. That is horrible as it does prolong the agony for you but personally I would err on the side of caution and let the gelding prove he was no good alone and he did not have a quality of life due to his clinical symptoms. I would allow at least a month or possibly 2 for things to get sorted with him which would basically be him making the decision. No one could blame you for whatever you did in the situation.


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## antigone (27 December 2015)

Thank you all, once again. I know I will have to make a decision and you are all just confirming what I was thinking anyway. It is helpful to have the views of knowledgeable horsey people who don't know us personally as it is more objective. Thank you honetpot for the aht idea. I think the vets would be a bit sensitive about involving experts from outside the practice but I will ring the aht anyway. I should add that the vets are from a specialist equine hospital rather than a general practice. 

I am worried that the charity will backtrack too but I have to trust them. How kind of you to meet the health costs for your loan pony.  At the end of the day the charity does have some duty of care towards us even if they refuse to acknowledge it. I am not really interested having a go at them in any way as what is done is done for us and to make a fuss would just stop lots of lovely healthy horses from being rehomed, but I would like to stop this from happening to anyone else.


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## ester (27 December 2015)

I wouldn't keep one with a permanent trach sorry . What a horrible situation, whatever you decide to do I would make sure you tell the charity even if they don't seem interested.


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## antigone (27 December 2015)

Thank you or your thoughts. This is one of the hardest things about it. His temporary trachy doesn't really bother him - it upsets me but not him. I do worry about how he would cope with the operation but I am sure that if he coped with the anaesthetic then the trachy would not bother him. I am sure he is a bit uncomfortable from the swelling in his neck but he can and is eating his head off and running about as usual. I don't need to restrict his grazing at this time of year so he is a happy boy at the moment.


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## peaceandquiet1 (27 December 2015)

What do your vets advise? Has the rescue mare given your one strangles? I am so very sorry for you with this unusual and difficult situation!


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## Pedantic (27 December 2015)

:-( I can't see how your horse looks, so can't give an opinion on pts or not, as for a companion, what about a different animal that isn't subject to strangles problems ?


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## antigone (27 December 2015)

horsemadmum1 said:



			What do your vets advise? Has the rescue mare given your one strangles? I am so very sorry for you with this unusual and difficult situation!
		
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yes he got it from her. vets happy to operate on both just not sure it is the right thing to put her through that again/put him through a general anaesthetic/keep him on his on if she has to be pts


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## antigone (27 December 2015)

Pedantic said:



			:-( I can't see how your horse looks, so can't give an opinion on pts or not, as for a companion, what about a different animal that isn't subject to strangles problems ?
		
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he looks great apart from the slight swelling behind his jaw and a hole in his neck. he is glossy and bossy.  Not sure there is a horse that would not get strangles - I understand that if a horse has had it they don't necessarily maintain a high level of immunity and can get it again. I would love to be wrong. I think it would be immoral to take a risk with another horses life to say nothing of the suffering


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## Kaylum (27 December 2015)

Pedantic said:



			:-( I can't see how your horse looks, so can't give an opinion on pts or not, as for a companion, what about a different animal that isn't subject to strangles problems ?
		
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  That's a good idea we have goats and they are always in with the horses. Easy to keep and very sociable.


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## Illusion100 (27 December 2015)

So sorry to hear this, what rotten luck. 

Can I ask if your boy is having intensive anti-inflammatory/antibiotic tx at this stage? Has poulticing or lancing been tried/suggested? 

Personally, I don't think I would opt for a permanent tracheostomy in this case but I'm not the one in this situation.

Regarding the mare, shame the surgery to remove the chondroids doesn't appear to have cleared the infection. 

It is impossible to predict whether any horse will develop immunity/become a carrier. 

I've thought about what to say for quite a while and thought of many circumstances to consider, sadly my honest opinion is to have both PTS. 

Big hugs, this must be awful for you, yet you have your head screwed on and thinking of other horses not just your own. Kudos, not everyone can be as selfless.


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## antigone (28 December 2015)

Kaylum said:



			That's a good idea we have goats and they are always in with the horses. Easy to keep and very sociable.
		
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We do have two goats and they do love being with the horses. Not sure the horses feel the same way. Sorry pedantic misread your post about other animals


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## antigone (28 December 2015)

Illusion100 said:



			So sorry to hear this, what rotten luck. 

Can I ask if your boy is having intensive anti-inflammatory/antibiotic tx at this stage? 

He is on Danilon mainly to control his temperature. His temp keeps spiking and that is when he becomes unwell

Has poulticing or lancing been tried/suggested? 

The swelling is in the retropharyngeal (?) nodes and vet said poulticing would be ineffective. Apparently the surgery to lance them is too dangerous because of the proximity to nerves and major blood vessels

Personally, I don't think I would opt for a permanent tracheostomy in this case but I'm not the one in this situation.

Regarding the mare, shame the surgery to remove the chondroids doesn't appear to have cleared the infection. 

It is impossible to predict whether any horse will develop immunity/become a carrier. 

I've thought about what to say for quite a while and thought of many circumstances to consider, sadly my honest opinion is to have both PTS. 

Big hugs, this must be awful for you, yet you have your head screwed on and thinking of other horses not just your own. Kudos, not everyone can be as selfless.
		
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Not sure I can bear it but I think that might be the right thing to do. I couldn't bear it if his last days were spent anxious and alone, either


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## antigone (28 December 2015)

Sorry did the above post wrong and my answers are buried in the original quote


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## FfionWinnie (28 December 2015)

Is this a big charity?  I would not accept them being quiet on you. At the very least they should be paying the bills for their pony. 

Feel very sorry for you op, an unbelievable nightmare by the sounds of it. 

I wouldn't have any more operations done. 

The horses in this are lucky to have you, it's you who will have to bear the pain in this scenario.


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## antigone (28 December 2015)

FfionWinnie said:



			Is this a big charity?  I would not accept them being quiet on you. At the very least they should be paying the bills for their pony. 

Feel very sorry for you op, an unbelievable nightmare by the sounds of it. 

I wouldn't have any more operations done. 

The horses in this are lucky to have you, it's you who will have to bear the pain in this scenario.
		
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Yes it is one of the biggest, believe it or not. The pony's vets bill was well over £1k and I did ask if they could contribute but they refused. It does clearly say on the probation agreement that I am responsible for all vets bills and that the charity are in not liable for any financial consequences relating to the adoption. The real cost to me here is not financial, though. And all they have said is that it is "unfortunate"


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## OldNag (28 December 2015)

I do feel for you OP and I don't  know what I would do in your situation.  I have had to have 2 PTS this year.One was clear cut, the other less so (could probably have struggled on for longer but I felt it was prolonging the inevitable ).  It is the hardest decision  to make. I would see what vet says about long term/quality of life for both.


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## Princess16 (28 December 2015)

FfionWinnie said:



			Is this a big charity?  I would not accept them being quiet on you. At the very least they should be paying the bills for their pony. 

Feel very sorry for you op, an unbelievable nightmare by the sounds of it. 

I wouldn't have any more operations done. 

The horses in this are lucky to have you, it's you who will have to bear the pain in this scenario.
		
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Agree with you but thunk about it if all charities paid for vets bills etc they would go under so wouldn't be able to operate - unfortunately for people like OP. 

Awful situation it really is.


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## antigone (28 December 2015)

Princess16 said:



			Agree with you but thunk about it if all charities paid for vets bills etc they would go under so wouldn't be able to operate - unfortunately for people like OP. 

Awful situation it really is.
		
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Agree with this, too. If you take on a horse or pony without a good, known veterinary history you are taking a bit of a chance wherever they come from. It just didn't occur to me that it could have such terrible consequences for my lovely cob and therein lies the lesson. The pony is a little better today so here we go on the next loop of the rollercoaster.....


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## Clodagh (28 December 2015)

If nothing else good comes of this situation OP at least you have highlighted the benefits of a strangles blood test before adopting a horse from a charity. I imagine that they are more likely to be carriers as they will not have had proper care in the past.


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## Evie91 (28 December 2015)

Sorry op, nothing of use to add. Just wanted to offer my sympathy - what an awful situation to find yourself in. The emotional and financial cost of 'doing the right thing' and adopting from a charity has had huge consequences for you and the horses.
I am surprised that a large charity wouldn't test for strangles anyway - before introducing to their existing horses and before rehoming to avoid such a situation. This thread has certainly been a learning curve for me.
Good luck op.


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## popsdosh (28 December 2015)

Evie91 said:



			Sorry op, nothing of use to add. Just wanted to offer my sympathy - what an awful situation to find yourself in. The emotional and financial cost of 'doing the right thing' and adopting from a charity has had huge consequences for you and the horses.
I am surprised that a large charity wouldn't test for strangles anyway - before introducing to their existing horses and before rehoming to avoid such a situation. This thread has certainly been a learning curve for me.
Good luck op.
		
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Strangles test are not cheap!!!


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## Sugar_and_Spice (28 December 2015)

antigone said:



			Yes it is one of the biggest, believe it or not. The pony's vets bill was well over £1k and I did ask if they could contribute but they refused. It does clearly say on the probation agreement that I am responsible for all vets bills and that the charity are in not liable for any financial consequences relating to the adoption. The real cost to me here is not financial, though. And all they have said is that it is "unfortunate"
		
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Is there nothing in the agreement about you being given a healthy horse?  I thought that was the point of taking a horse from a charity, it would have undergone a rehabilitation of some sort where it was brought back to health and perhaps given some training.  Otherwise you may as well just go to the nearest auction and pick something up for £50 if all you want is a companion horse and don't mind what it is or what state it's in.  The horse they gave you was ill, had it been in isolation for a short while it would have become apparent it had strangles.  So did they not isolate it when they took it on?  Or did their own disease prevention measures fail and the horse, having previously been healthy, caught strangles from another in their care?  Unless I'm reading it all wrong and the horse didn't come to you with strangles?  If it did, I just don't see how they can get out of paying the vet bill for it and I know the financial loss is the least of your worries, but they should be paying for the vet bills and (probable) loss of your other horse too if all this occurred as a result of the charities neglegence.  

FWIW I agree with the other posters that PTS is probably the best option for both the horses.  I say that as someone who doesn't operate though, so they wouldn't have made it this far if they'd been mine.  The tube (is that right?) in the throat doesn't bother me.  I had a race horse with that who was fine, just couldn't gallop on all weather surfaces any more so went to be an amateur show jumper with the groom.  But I wouldn't keep any horse alone.  If it was happy with the company of another animal I think that would be a good option.  Reading the other health issues the horse has though, be honest with yourself about how much these affect quality of life.  Are the strangles complications just a problem in their own right, ones that could maybe be overcome, or are they the "last straw" in a horse that's already struggling/has a limited quality of life?  If I was in your shoes, that would be the deciding factor I think.


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## Orca (28 December 2015)

antigone said:



			Yes it is one of the biggest, believe it or not. The pony's vets bill was well over £1k and I did ask if they could contribute but they refused. It does clearly say on the probation agreement that I am responsible for all vets bills and that the charity are in not liable for any financial consequences relating to the adoption. The real cost to me here is not financial, though. And all they have said is that it is "unfortunate"
		
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"Unfortunate" seems like a quite flippant response to such a disastrous and sad occurrence. I would hope that they would at least review their practices and offer a full and frank apology for what has happened because to be honest, it would be more responsible of them to pts carriers, than risk the lives of healthy, privately owned horses. If the point of rescuing horses is to save lives, then they have failed miserably.

I can't offer advice as to your predicament, OP. I've never been in your position and can't begin to imagine what I would do. I did have ponies who did not always have companions when I was younger and also knew horses who coped quite well too. There seemed to be less emphasis on the importance of keeping horses in company back then. I'm not saying it isn't important but a lack of a companion would not be a deciding factor in whether to pts, for me. Health would be and you absolutely have the right and responsibility to draw the line whenever you feel is appropriate.


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## be positive (28 December 2015)

antigone said:



			Yes it is one of the biggest, believe it or not. The pony's vets bill was well over £1k and I did ask if they could contribute but they refused. It does clearly say on the probation agreement that I am responsible for all vets bills and that the charity are in not liable for any financial consequences relating to the adoption. The real cost to me here is not financial, though. And all they have said is that it is "unfortunate"
		
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They are very fortunate that you have been responsible and taken proper care of the pony, many people would have taken it back and left the charity to deal with things, saying you have been unfortunate is a flippant uncaring response, I think if I were in your position I would not spend any more on the rescue, it may sound heartless but it really is not worth getting in deeper emotionally or financially, you need those reserves to cope with your own horse whatever your decision.


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## antigone (28 December 2015)

COldNag said:



			I do feel for you OP and I don't  know what I would do in your situation.  I have had to have 2 PTS this year.One was clear cut, the other less so (could probably have struggled on for longer but I felt it was prolonging the inevitable ).  It is the hardest decision  to make. I would see what vet says about long term/quality of life for both.
		
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Thank you. I am sorry you have had an awful time, too.


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## antigone (28 December 2015)

COldNag said:



			I do feel for you OP and I don't  know what I would do in your situation.  I have had to have 2 PTS this year.One was clear cut, the other less so (could probably have struggled on for longer but I felt it was prolonging the inevitable ).  It is the hardest decision  to make. I would see what vet says about long term/quality of life for both.
		
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The vet seems to think that a permanent trachy would present no problems - in fact it would be less bother than the temporary one. I am concerned about the operation, though - an hour long anaesthetic does seem a long time - I need to discuss this further with the vet. The other problem is, of course, that he may become a carrier. I can keep him away from other horses as he is at home but then there is the problem if his always being alone. He is a lovely, easy going, friendly horse but he is not a brave one and does love to have friends.


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## antigone (28 December 2015)

Evie91 said:



			Sorry op, nothing of use to add. Just wanted to offer my sympathy - what an awful situation to find yourself in. The emotional and financial cost of 'doing the right thing' and adopting from a charity has had huge consequences for you and the horses.
I am surprised that a large charity wouldn't test for strangles anyway - before introducing to their existing horses and before rehoming to avoid such a situation. This thread has certainly been a learning curve for me.
Good luck op.
		
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Didn't occur to me either, sadly


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## antigone (28 December 2015)

Sugar_and_Spice said:



			Is there nothing in the agreement about you being given a healthy horse?  I thought that was the point of taking a horse from a charity, it would have undergone a rehabilitation of some sort where it was brought back to health and perhaps given some training.  Otherwise you may as well just go to the nearest auction and pick something up for £50 if all you want is a companion horse and don't mind what it is or what state it's in.  The horse they gave you was ill, had it been in isolation for a short while it would have become apparent it had strangles.  So did they not isolate it when they took it on?  Or did their own disease prevention measures fail and the horse, having previously been healthy, caught strangles from another in their care?  Unless I'm reading it all wrong and the horse didn't come to you with strangles?  If it did, I just don't see how they can get out of paying the vet bill for it and I know the financial loss is the least of your worries, but they should be paying for the vet bills and (probable) loss of your other horse too if all this occurred as a result of the charities neglegence.  

FWIW I agree with the other posters that PTS is probably the best option for both the horses.  I say that as someone who doesn't operate though, so they wouldn't have made it this far if they'd been mine.  The tube (is that right?) in the throat doesn't bother me.  I had a race horse with that who was fine, just couldn't gallop on all weather surfaces any more so went to be an amateur show jumper with the groom.  But I wouldn't keep any horse alone.  If it was happy with the company of another animal I think that would be a good option.  Reading the other health issues the horse has though, be honest with yourself about how much these affect quality of life.  Are the strangles complications just a problem in their own right, ones that could maybe be overcome, or are they the "last straw" in a horse that's already struggling/has a limited quality of life?  If I was in your shoes, that would be the deciding factor I think.
		
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The agreement does not guarantee a healthy horse - they specifically say that the costs relating to any condition whether known or otherwise must be met by the adopter. fair enough but I do think that strangles is different as it doesn't only affect the rescue horse.

The pony as a silent carrier. No signs for the first 2 1/2 months and only confirmed when she was scoped and her gutteral pouches were found to be full of chondroids. The vet thought she had had them for months and months - she had been in the care of the charity for a year so someone wasn't paying attention.

With respect to his quality of life, this is the hard thing. I think he is fine. On his Danilon he behaves normally. He is bright and happy to have his grass at this time of year. He has a whole field to roam in, a field shelter for when the weather is rough, lots of love and attention and he doesn't have to do a stroke of work for any of it at the moment. His COPD means he is best living out (which he prefers anyway) and it doesn't affect him. His arthritis means he isn't worked hard or jumped but that doesn't bother me or him. He is still capable of lots of things. The other problem is that as amimal/people relationships go we are very close. I have had him for 7 years and we know each other inside out. It would feel like a betrayal to put him to sleep.


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## antigone (28 December 2015)

Orca said:



			"Unfortunate" seems like a quite flippant response to such a disastrous and sad occurrence. I would hope that they would at least review their practices and offer a full and frank apology for what has happened because to be honest, it would be more responsible of them to pts carriers, than risk the lives of healthy, privately owned horses. If the point of rescuing horses is to save lives, then they have failed miserably.

I can't offer advice as to your predicament, OP. I've never been in your position and can't begin to imagine what I would do. I did have ponies who did not always have companions when I was younger and also knew horses who coped quite well too. There seemed to be less emphasis on the importance of keeping horses in company back then. I'm not saying it isn't important but a lack of a companion would not be a deciding factor in whether to pts, for me. Health would be and you absolutely have the right and responsibility to draw the line whenever you feel is appropriate.
		
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Thank you. I hope they review procedures too. To be fair, if they had known they would have pts


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## FfionWinnie (28 December 2015)

antigone said:



			Yes it is one of the biggest, believe it or not. The pony's vets bill was well over £1k and I did ask if they could contribute but they refused. It does clearly say on the probation agreement that I am responsible for all vets bills and that the charity are in not liable for any financial consequences relating to the adoption. The real cost to me here is not financial, though. And all they have said is that it is "unfortunate"
		
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In that case I would be telling them you will be going to the horse press with your story. This is at their discretion. They gave you an animal which was seriously ill and I hardly think they will want it back. Not only that they have infected your beloved horse with a life ending condition. They should be falling over themselves to pay these vet bills for you. I would write them a letter setting out the costs and the situation and requesting that they do the right thing and cover the bills. I've work for charities most of my working life. They will not want this getting out. You've been very fair minded with them in your thread here, but this is a terrible situation and their policies need to be looked at to prevent it happening to someone else.  I would ask them how they will be ensuring this too.


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## Vodkagirly (28 December 2015)

Horrible situation, really feel for you.  If the temporary tracheostomy doesn't work, I would put both to sleep.
My thoughts would be a day to early rather than to late. A hard position though.


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## peaceandquiet1 (28 December 2015)

I am not sure if a blood test would reveal if a horse was a carrier. i thought they needed to flush out the guttural pouches to establish that but maybe i am wrong? Anyhow it is really awful that a charity should hand over a strangles carrier and leave you in this terrible situation. I haven't heard of horses living with permanent tracheostomies either but if the horse is happy enough then...............


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## FfionWinnie (28 December 2015)

Princess16 said:



			Agree with you but thunk about it if all charities paid for vets bills etc they would go under so wouldn't be able to operate - unfortunately for people like OP. 

Awful situation it really is.
		
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Actually most charities have millions sitting waiting to find something to spend it on, especially the big ones. I have worked for two fairly big players for many years and I can assure you in a situation like this if the right buttons are pushed they will do the right thing. 

They have rehomed a horse with a serious, life threatening highly contagious disease and it is  probably going to finish off the OPs horse. If they don't have suitable policies in place to avoid this (and clearly they don't!) what's to say they aren't spreading strangles all over the country via their rehoming centre, which will have staff, visitors, members of the public. You name it. It is a PR disaster and they certainly shouldn't be ignoring the op.


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## Laurac13 (28 December 2015)

I am so so sorry to hear of your terribly sad situation. If you do go ahead with the permanent Trachy for your boy you could maybe get a sheep or two for companions for him they cannot catch equine strangles or maybe find a horse or pony who has previously had strangles and had clear gutteral pouch tests as I believe horses who have had strangles recovered and are not carriers have a strong immunity to getting it again
Good luck in whatever you decide not an easy situation and dreadful lack of support from the rescue place
X


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## shergar (28 December 2015)

antigone said:



			The vet seems to think that a permanent trachy would present no problems - in fact it would be less bother than the temporary one. I am concerned about the operation, though - an hour long anaesthetic does seem a long time - I need to discuss this further with the vet. The other problem is, of course, that he may become a carrier. I can keep him away from other horses as he is at home but then there is the problem if his always being alone. He is a lovely, easy going, friendly horse but he is not a brave one and does love to have friends.
		
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We have a mare that started coughing in feb this year also 5 other liveries, the vet said it was a virus 4 stopped coughing ours got worse and was put on antibiotics which made no difference she was getting worse .                                                                          We decided to change vet and have her scoped ,new vet new medicine but the next morning she could not eat, the vet scoped again to  find her airway almost closed so she had an emergency trachy to secure her airway ,lightly sedated in her stable no problem .I did query abscess as there was a swelling some where beyond the larynx,vet came back next morning and fitted the permanent tube  which we thought would be in forever    
Vet thought better to have her in the hospital for a few days ,the abscess burst on route ,so 12 days later the tube was removed and all healed within 3 weeks .               
I think the horse coped very well she had the tube removed twice a day cleaned and replaced with no sedation  ,the mare is 20 yrs old .                                                          
OP why would your horse need a GA to fit a permanent  tube?                                           and is there not a risk to other horses taking a horse with strangles in to an equine hospital   .                                                                                                                    Also a strangles carrier can be tested and treated ,so your horse could have company again in the future.                                                                                                        Fingers crossed for your horse .


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## ester (28 December 2015)

Equine hospitals would be well practised at barrier/isolation nursing techniques etc. The same with parvo in small animal hospitals etc.


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## SO1 (28 December 2015)

That is so sad.

I know any horse can be a carrier and there is always going to be a risk when taking on a new horse but you can blood test for strangles and it looks like a blood test is available that can help identify strangles carriers. http://www.aht.org.uk/skins/Default/pdfs/Testing_for_Strangles_Explained.pdf

I would have thought if it was one of the big charities they would routinely blood test for strangles all new horses that come into the sanctuaries as a big strangles outbreak at the sanctuaries could cost them a fortune in treatment and because I am guessing that a lot of the rescued horses may come from yards or places with no bio security. 

I do hope your cob makes a good recovery and does not become a carrier and can have a suitable companion.


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## Penks (28 December 2015)

Firstly, i am so sorry about the situation you are in, 

From what I have understood , to summarise, you have a very much loved 17 year old ridden cob who has developed strangles following exposure from a recently acquired rescue companion mare who is a carrier. 
Your cob already has copd and arthritis in hocks/si joints.
He currently has a temporary tracheostomy due to extremely swollen lymph nodes affecting his ability to breathe but this cannot stay in much longer and if the swelling does not decrease/abcesses burst, his would require an irreversible permanent tracheostomy and may always be a strangles carrier. He is already on danilon.
To compound matters, the companion mare (uninsured) who has already had recent surgery is quite unwell with strangles and may require put to sleep imminently leaving you with a gelding "who has never been good on his own" and the difficulty of getting a new companion if the gelding does turn out to be a carrier resistant to treatment. 
Currently, your gelding does not seem distressed by the temporary tracheostomy and is living out and appears well altho is on danilon. 


I hope i have got the above correct ^^^ Just trying to think of options.

Regarding the mare, she sounds very unwell at the moment and has already had surgery. It does sound like the kindest thing to do if the only option is more surgery is to pts if she is suffering and further surgery is unlikely to help her. This will however, will leave your gelding alone but you have to do what is best for her not your gelding if she is suffering. 

In terms of your gelding, all round best case scenario, although it sounds unlikely, would be that your geldings swelling would go down before permanent tracheostomy is required and could have treatment to eliminate him being a carrier.

Can your vet advise you how long roughly you have got until you have to make a decision about a permanent tracheostomy, ie days? weeks? 
Has your vet said he will always be a carrier? Why can he not have treatment to eradicate? 

So you have option of permanent tracheostomy but horse is alone for rest of his life or depending what vet says about him being a carrier, a horse with permanent tracheostomy and horse has a companion. (altho he may have to be alone for unknown number of weeks whilst strangles is eradicated) 

Having a permanent tracheostomy will mean he is more at risk of respiratory infections and he already has a respiratory disorder - copd.
There is also a chance the tracheostomy could become dislodged/blocked while the horse is in the field and if the swelling in his lymph nodes is still present it would mean that he would not be able to breath and may suffocate.

Doing a quick google search, it seems there are horses out there who are leading long lives with permanent tracheostomies so it can be done.

If it was me, i would not have a horse or any animal with a permanent tracheostomy and I would not have any horse alone, however he is not my boy and it must be heartbreaking. I  do not envy your decision, you obviously love your horses very much.


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## Feival (28 December 2015)

I'm so sorry for this I too would have them pts at home together to save any further stresses to them,  am truly sorry for you.


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## Sugar_and_Spice (28 December 2015)

antigone said:



			With respect to his quality of life, this is the hard thing. I think he is fine. On his Danilon he behaves normally. He is bright and happy to have his grass at this time of year. He has a whole field to roam in, a field shelter for when the weather is rough, lots of love and attention and he doesn't have to do a stroke of work for any of it at the moment. His COPD means he is best living out (which he prefers anyway) and it doesn't affect him. His arthritis means he isn't worked hard or jumped but that doesn't bother me or him. He is still capable of lots of things. The other problem is that as amimal/people relationships go we are very close. I have had him for 7 years and we know each other inside out. It would feel like a betrayal to put him to sleep.
		
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Then if you're happy to operate and have the funds to do so, I'd go with that.  He doesn't sound as if he needs to be PTS yet on health grounds.  You could try him with other animals as companions and see how he goes.  There's a risk of the operation going wrong I presume as you you seem worried about it, but what do you have to lose?  Nothing that I can see.  If you PTS he dies, if you operate and it goes wrong he dies.  All you'd lose is the money, so if you don't mind that then go for it.  If he becomes unhappy living without other horses and his quality of life is gone, you can PTS then knowing you did all you could.  On the other hand, if you can't afford this operation then I don't see that you have anything to feel guilty for if you PTS, none of this situation is your fault, all you did was try to find him a suitable companion horse.  He may not be ancient but has reached a fair age and had a happy life, that's a better life than some have had.  

I'd go with FfionWinnie's suggestion of putting pressure on the charity too.  I think it's disgraceful that you've ended up in this position.  If you lose your original horse then you lose him and money won't bring him back.  But what is the better position to be in:  a few thousand pounds down and no horses, if you have to pay the vet bill; or a few thousand pounds down with a new healthy horse, if those responsible for causing the situation are made to pay the vet bill, enabling you to buy another horse?  I realise you aren't thinking of a new horse at this moment in time and of course a new horse isn't a replacement emotionally for the current one, but as an outsider I can look to the future in a practical way which is why I mention it.


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## peaceandquiet1 (28 December 2015)

i would have thought charities would have been hot on the whole strangles thing. This pony who is a carrier may well have infected horses at the charity too if she was shedding the bacteria or whatever the phrase is.


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## brighteyes (29 December 2015)

I'm amazed the charity didn't pick up guttural pouch empyema - a well known sequela to strangles. To have chondroids long term is inadvisable as they will eventually (as in guttural pouch mycosis) rot the carotid artery, which passes adjacent to the g.p. 

The pony in my avatar had chondroids/empyema but somehow cleared the g.p. herself. The vet at Leahurst was pretty amazed as the x-rays showed a comprehensively stuffed g.p., although not a chronic case as we were on it immediately. You can't *not* know as the breathing is affected and a foul discharge and cough will also be present. We were given a poor to hopeless prognosis but, after scoping and flushing, the vet felt confident there would be no recurrence and he was correct. 

I'd be going back to the charity as in our case also, our other horses were affected to varying degrees and this was our pony who was borrowed and infected. I was NOT happy as we got left with the bills. Another pony loaned by this family also contracted strangles and from what I can gather also secondary infection which did actually result in her bleeding fatally out through her nose. Awful. 

I would press the vets, having been given very much a worst case scenario and escaping unscathed.


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## antigone (29 December 2015)

shergar said:



			We have a mare that started coughing in feb this year also 5 other liveries, the vet said it was a virus 4 stopped coughing ours got worse and was put on antibiotics which made no difference she was getting worse .                                                                          We decided to change vet and have her scoped ,new vet new medicine but the next morning she could not eat, the vet scoped again to  find her airway almost closed so she had an emergency trachy to secure her airway ,lightly sedated in her stable no problem .I did query abscess as there was a swelling some where beyond the larynx,vet came back next morning and fitted the permanent tube  which we thought would be in forever    
Vet thought better to have her in the hospital for a few days ,the abscess burst on route ,so 12 days later the tube was removed and all healed within 3 weeks .               
I think the horse coped very well she had the tube removed twice a day cleaned and replaced with no sedation  ,the mare is 20 yrs old .                                                          
OP why would your horse need a GA to fit a permanent  tube?                                           and is there not a risk to other horses taking a horse with strangles in to an equine hospital   .                                                                                                                    Also a strangles carrier can be tested and treated ,so your horse could have company again in the future.                                                                                                        Fingers crossed for your horse .
		
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apparently the permanent trachy does not use a tube - they cut a new hole (cannot re-use the old one) and attach the tracheal lining to the outer tissues. It doesn't need cleaning the way the tube does so is better in many ways. My vet doesn't like to do them standing so he wold need a ga. With regard to his carrier status even with the new trachy he will still have a massive swelling in his throat which may not burst in the future. Because of this he may become a carrier. Cannot operate on the abscess as it is too close to major blood vessels and nerves. He could have the trachy done in hospital but I am reluctant because of the stress involved. I need to decide if it would be appropriate for him to have it done at all and then decide where. It is all so complicated.


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## jofwigby (29 December 2015)

I feel terrible for you - and the mare and your pony. You sound very capable and caring and I'm sure you will do the right thing (whatever that may turn out to be).

I am peed off on your behalf that whichever charity it was had little empathy. Not so much financially support - but you'd like to think they'd be at the end of the phone.


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## antigone (29 December 2015)

Penks said:



			Firstly, i am so sorry about the situation you are in, 

From what I have understood , to summarise, you have a very much loved 17 year old ridden cob who has developed strangles following exposure from a recently acquired rescue companion mare who is a carrier. 
Your cob already has copd and arthritis in hocks/si joints.
He currently has a temporary tracheostomy due to extremely swollen lymph nodes affecting his ability to breathe but this cannot stay in much longer and if the swelling does not decrease/abcesses burst, his would require an irreversible permanent tracheostomy and may always be a strangles carrier. He is already on danilon.
To compound matters, the companion mare (uninsured) who has already had recent surgery is quite unwell with strangles and may require put to sleep imminently leaving you with a gelding "who has never been good on his own" and the difficulty of getting a new companion if the gelding does turn out to be a carrier resistant to treatment. 
Currently, your gelding does not seem distressed by the temporary tracheostomy and is living out and appears well altho is on danilon. 


I hope i have got the above correct ^^^ Just trying to think of options.

Regarding the mare, she sounds very unwell at the moment and has already had surgery. It does sound like the kindest thing to do if the only option is more surgery is to pts if she is suffering and further surgery is unlikely to help her. This will however, will leave your gelding alone but you have to do what is best for her not your gelding if she is suffering. 

In terms of your gelding, all round best case scenario, although it sounds unlikely, would be that your geldings swelling would go down before permanent tracheostomy is required and could have treatment to eliminate him being a carrier.

Can your vet advise you how long roughly you have got until you have to make a decision about a permanent tracheostomy, ie days? weeks? 
Has your vet said he will always be a carrier? Why can he not have treatment to eradicate? 

So you have option of permanent tracheostomy but horse is alone for rest of his life or depending what vet says about him being a carrier, a horse with permanent tracheostomy and horse has a companion. (altho he may have to be alone for unknown number of weeks whilst strangles is eradicated) 

Having a permanent tracheostomy will mean he is more at risk of respiratory infections and he already has a respiratory disorder - copd.
There is also a chance the tracheostomy could become dislodged/blocked while the horse is in the field and if the swelling in his lymph nodes is still present it would mean that he would not be able to breath and may suffocate.

Doing a quick google search, it seems there are horses out there who are leading long lives with permanent tracheostomies so it can be done.

If it was me, i would not have a horse or any animal with a permanent tracheostomy and I would not have any horse alone, however he is not my boy and it must be heartbreaking. I  do not envy your decision, you obviously love your horses very much.
		
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Thank you and yes you have got the gist of it perfectly. We have about a month before we have to decide about his trachy. I think I have decided he could not live alone. He would have sheep and goats but they don't really do it for him. This is a horse that cannot be the first one turned out into an empty field or the last one brought in. What on earth was I thinking? Also the whole course of this miserable drama has been filled with complications and disasters and I cannot believe the operation would be a smooth and trouble free process. 

The pony is on antibiotics and I have to give those a chance to help her. She ate her breakfast this morning, albeit slowly, which is good as all her meds are in it. She is no longer just standing in the field shelter. Thank you for taking the time to think through all this.


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## antigone (29 December 2015)

brighteyes said:



			I'm amazed the charity didn't pick up guttural pouch empyema - a well known sequela to strangles. To have chondroids long term is inadvisable as they will eventually (as in guttural pouch mycosis) rot the carotid artery, which passes adjacent to the g.p. 

The pony in my avatar had chondroids/empyema but somehow cleared the g.p. herself. The vet at Leahurst was pretty amazed as the x-rays showed a comprehensively stuffed g.p., although not a chronic case as we were on it immediately. You can't *not* know as the breathing is affected and a foul discharge and cough will also be present. We were given a poor to hopeless prognosis but, after scoping and flushing, the vet felt confident there would be no recurrence and he was correct. 

I'd be going back to the charity as in our case also, our other horses were affected to varying degrees and this was our pony who was borrowed and infected. I was NOT happy as we got left with the bills. Another pony loaned by this family also contracted strangles and from what I can gather also secondary infection which did actually result in her bleeding fatally out through her nose. Awful. 

I would press the vets, having been given very much a worst case scenario and escaping unscathed.
		
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Thank you for that. The pony did have some symptoms - she had an occasional barking cough. I didn't realise the significance and obviously neither did the vets. She was seen by two vets from two practices  after her little episode of illness which occurred after the dentist saw her. She had a small amount of clear, yellow nasal discharge, bad breath and a bit more of a cough. If I had known then what I know now I could have separated them but I cannot think about that or I will send myself nuts. The vets did the operation to open the gutteral pouch because they thought there was too much material to clear with flushing. Seems maybe that was the wrong move too. 

Re: the bleeding out - that is also a concern for me with him. He had a minor bleed when he was scoped (didn't look that minor to me but a little blood does go a long way)- the swelling is clearly quite vascular. Need to discuss this with the vet.

Thank you for that bit of positivity though, I am glad your pony is ok


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## antigone (29 December 2015)

So, these are my thoughts so far:

My gelding cannot live alone and I do not now think it is fair to try it. Because of this his only chance is if the pony does ok. If she has to be pts then I will let him go with her.

If she is ok I will keep his temporary trachy going as long as possible but if, when the tube can no longer be re-inserted, he still cannot manage without it I will have him pts. We have about a month until we need to decide this. If the pony is still full of strangles, even if she seems better, I will have her pts with him. If by some miracle she seems ok I will have her scoped and washed out and if she is clean I will get her another little friend.

I think this is fair and kind to both of them though it will just about finish me off.

I have taken legal advice and I am going to make a formal complaint to the charity with the aim of preventing this happening to anyone else. 

Thank you all for your input and kind words. You have all been so supportive and helpful


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## horselib (29 December 2015)

well done you for being the owner/carer every horse deserves.I am horrified the pony wasn't checked by the rescue perhaps it has warned us all to be cautious when taking on a rescue even from atop charity. hope things work out for you. I am sure you feel a little better having made yourself a plan.


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## Luci07 (29 December 2015)

Nothing helpful to add but I didn't want to read and ignore. Horrible position to be placed in and I keep my fingers crossed for a positive outcome for you.


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## ozpoz (29 December 2015)

I'm glad you have a plan now - it is easier with a plan. 

I do think the charity concerned should take some responsibility here, for goodwill ( which they clearly depend on) if nothing else. I'd approach them again - point them in the direction of this thread if they want to gauge public feeling.


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## Hannahgb (29 December 2015)

Keeping everything crossed for you for the month ahead


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## dizzyneddy (29 December 2015)

I really feel for you op but glad you have a plan & l've experience first hand with strangles & it's not nice. My mare came down with it in 2003 when she was at a riding school/livery yard she had a very mild case & three vets believed she caught it from a carrier as no other horse contracted it. l had her pouches flushed in case she was a carrier & since then l've been on two yards & had no problems
I'm very surprised that the charity hasn't been supportive with you as it appears that it's through their pony that you took in that has resulted in your gelding becoming ill. l think you have done wonderful with your horses & you've their welfare at heart you sound as if you care more for the rescue pony than the charity does. l hope whatever the coming months bring that everything works out for you in 2016 as l think you've been through the mill in 2015. Good luck


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## Clodagh (29 December 2015)

Good luck. Al lcharities should test before rehoming. If all carriers were PTs, if treatment were deemed too expensive, there would still hardly be a shortage of healthy companion ponies.


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## TeamChaser (29 December 2015)

Must admit, pretty stunned that charities don't routinely screen for this type of thing before offering animals for re homing. Perhaps I'm naive though

OP - so sorry you've found yourself in such a horrid situation, my heart goes out to you. No additional advice but will be hoping for some sort of positive outcome x


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## Gloi (29 December 2015)

I really feel for you here. It's a bit of an eye opener and a real warning for anyone taking on a rescue pony to be very careful.


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## AdorableAlice (29 December 2015)

TeamChaser said:



			Must admit, pretty stunned that charities don't routinely screen for this type of thing before offering animals for re homing. Perhaps I'm naive though

OP - so sorry you've found yourself in such a horrid situation, my heart goes out to you. No additional advice but will be hoping for some sort of positive outcome x
		
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My thoughts too.  When you consider the dross the charities deal with it is inevitable there will be plenty of disease present. The charity has been grossly negligent in my view.  My heart goes out to the OP, an act of kindness has devastated the life of her and the cob.  How many more horse charities are off loading diseased 'rescue' ponies.


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## Echo Bravo (29 December 2015)

Thoughts with you OP but at least you have thought things through and a lot can happen in a month for good or bad hopefully for the good. And if it's the bad you know what is best for both animals. And I agree with others the charity should be helping you with the bills for the mare as it is still legally theirs.


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## Caol Ila (29 December 2015)

So sorry to read all this.  You are a wonderful, caring owner.  Given the charity's blase response and their dismissal of the whole mess as "unfortunate," I would be mad as hell and I would be naming and shaming in the press.  If I didn't know any good journalists (or wasn't in training to be one), I would be finding one and hoping that some bad publicity encourages horse rescue charities to test animals for strangles before sending them on to new homes.  Poor horses.  And poor you.


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## Goldenstar (30 December 2015)

I would be as mad as fire as well.
I have always planned to foster some recuse when we have fewer horses this has seriously put me off the idea .
The attitude of the charity is unbelievable OP have you considered contacting the chief executive of the charity directly and telling your story .
Also although I shudder to say it it's the sort of story the Daily Mail loves .


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## dibbin (30 December 2015)

Antigone, this is such a horrible situation for you. You're clearly a very caring and capable owner who is determined to do the best for her animals. The charity's response is extremely disappointing.

We were on a yard a few years ago that had a fairly bad outbreak, since then we have always had our own new horses blood tested at vetting and it's mandatory for new ones coming onto the yard - but that's obviously with the benefit of hindsight, before our own experience of strangles it would never have crossed our minds to test for it.

Thinking of you.


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## Tiddlypom (30 December 2015)

OP, I'm really sorry for you, what a bleddy awful situation. The charity (whichever one it is) needs a kick up the bum for the way it has handled it.

Whilst lessons must be learnt from this very unfortunate case, I do hope that people are not completely put off the idea of taking on a charity rescue equine. IMHO acquiring a companion pony from a low end market would carry more risks, in fact a well meaning friend who bought two ponies from Beeston this year had her whole yard down with a respiratory infection that they carried in with them.

I am on my second foster pony from the RSPCA (no idea if this is the charity you got the pony from, or not). They don't seem to do a routine strangles blood test before putting horses up for foster/adoption (at least they didn't for my two), but they do give them a full health check by a vet. I deal with RSPCA Gonsal Farm, in Shropshire, and I've been very impressed with them.

All incoming equines, whether straight from rescue or coming back from foster homes or other 'safe' environments, are put into isolation for 3 (I think) weeks before going onto the main yard. They are worm counted and treated, feet trimmed, teeth rasped and they are jabbed for tetanus (but not flu). The vet practice that they use is one that is often recommended here on HHO.

It is a perfectly fair question to ask, though, whether a strangles blood test should be done routinely by the big rescue charities before allowing equines out for adoption or foster.


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## antigone (30 December 2015)

Thank you all for your support. I think I will be very angry when this is all over but I don't have the energy for it right now. The last thing I would want is to stop healthy horses and ponies from being rehomed I just don't want anyone else to go through this. I suppose I have been doubly unlucky - pony gave my horse strangles and then it became complicated strangles.


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## MiniMilton (30 December 2015)

I'm so sorry this terrible situation has happened to you. I have fostered many ponies in the past and this is a real eye opener to what could have happened. As for your lovely cob, I would get a second and third vet opinion on this. Best of luck x


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## LadyGascoyne (2 January 2016)

Antigone, you've been in my thoughts so much. How are you getting on?

Hoping for good news.


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## AdorableAlice (2 January 2016)

LadyGascoyne said:



			Antigone, you've been in my thoughts so much. How are you getting on?

Hoping for good news.
		
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I too have been thinking of you OP, if only there was something we could do to help you.  Such a dreadful situation and so needless.  Very best wishes.


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## windseywoo (2 January 2016)

Antigone, I feel very sorry for you and your situation, you've tried to help out a horse in need and its back fired horribly. Sorry if I've missed this but I presume that you've tried to hot poultice your boy to encourage the abscess to burst. When my boy came down with it he was not right for a couple of weeks, but no sign of nasal discharge or swelling, so when the vets came they gave him a course of antibiotics. He then seemingly got better and then the discharge and the swelling started. He had two strangle tests which came back negative, but then one day I decided to poultice it to see if anything came out as for some reason it seemed to develop in one side. As soon as I put the hot towel on to the area he developed multiple small holes which the puss was able to drain from. I had to poultice the area for weeks and the amount of stuff that came out was horrifying, he finally got better but still has enlarged pouches and I'm now not sure whether he could be a carrier.
I think he got it when we bought our new horse, so whether she was a carrier, but the other two horses on our yard didn't show any symptoms and its not come back.
Hope your horrible situation has a happy ending, but I don't know what I'd do in your situation. Though as others have said the charity should be doing more.


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## jojo5 (2 January 2016)

I too am thinking of you, Antigone.  My heart goes out to you.


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## antigone (6 January 2016)

Thank you all for all your kind words. The pony developed pneumonia and was pts yesterday. Because he could not live alone my lovely boy was pts also. I am in pieces.


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## Tiddlypom (6 January 2016)

Oh no .  So very sorry for your losses, how heartbreaking. It's not bl00dy fair.

When you're strong enough, please chase it with the rescue charity, they cannot abdicate their responsibility over this.

Hugs.


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## LadyGascoyne (6 January 2016)

Antigone, I am so so sorry. What has happened to you is nothing short of cruel.  You sound like such a caring, dedicated owner who really tried your heart out for your horses. I hope that you can take some comfort in knowing that you have done your best by both of them. 

I hope there is someone you can be with.


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## Amymay (6 January 2016)

I've been following this thread.

I'm so, so sorry to read your update Antigone.


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## jofwigby (6 January 2016)

So sorry to hear your news Antigone x


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## Clodagh (6 January 2016)

antigone said:



			Thank you all for all your kind words. The pony developed pneumonia and was pts yesterday. Because he could not live alone my lovely boy was pts also. I am in pieces.
		
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I am so very sorry.


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## Magnetic Sparrow (6 January 2016)

My condolences also. You have been very brave.


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## peaceandquiet1 (6 January 2016)

The decision then was made for you. I am so very sorry. And angry at the charity who have let you down. Kind thoughts and hope in time you can enjoy your happy memories.


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## Hannahgb (6 January 2016)

I am so so sorry for your losses. Huge hugs for you x


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## Damnation (6 January 2016)

I have followed this thread but not posted.

I am so sorry to hear of your loss. I was holding out all hope the little mare would pull through, but you did the right thing not to prolong her suffering or his.

You have been a responsible and caring owner. I hope the charity learns a lesson from this.

My thoughts are with you.


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## Regandal (6 January 2016)

Oh no,  I am so sorry. XXX


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## teacups (6 January 2016)

So sorry to hear this. Condolences.


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## ester (6 January 2016)

I am so, so sorry to read this antigone .


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## jojo5 (6 January 2016)

So very sorry to hear this news - we can all understand your devastation, and I am sure we are all thinking of you.


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## buffy2 (6 January 2016)

:-( so sorry to hear this news , hugs x


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## The Fuzzy Furry (6 January 2016)

So sorry to read your very sad news xxx


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## millikins (6 January 2016)

That is so sad.


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## smja (6 January 2016)

I am so sorry. Best wishes to you, you did everything you could in an awful situation.


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## Wagtail (6 January 2016)

I am so sorry to read this. What an absolutely rubbish situation. So sad.


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## Penks (6 January 2016)

antigone said:



			Thank you all for all your kind words. The pony developed pneumonia and was pts yesterday. Because he could not live alone my lovely boy was pts also. I am in pieces.
		
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You have been in my thoughts often since you first posted and I am so so sorry to read your update, I as Im sure everyone who read your post was hoping that somehow it would all come good. 
Its clear from your posts you are a responsible horse owner and loved your horses very much and only wanted the best for them.
Truly sorry for your loss. x


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## Fiona (6 January 2016)

I am so so sorry to hear this antigone 

Please accept my condolences,  and a huge hug x x x 

Fiona


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## KittenInTheTree (6 January 2016)

Deepest condolences, Antigone, I am very sorry for your loss.


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## TheresaW (6 January 2016)

So sorry. Thinking of you. Xx


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## Bustermartin (6 January 2016)

So sorry - you have been the best possible owner the ponies could have had, and you had the courage to do the right think by them both.

x


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## dizzyneddy (6 January 2016)

LadyGascoyne said:



			Antigone, I am so so sorry. What has happened to you is nothing short of cruel.  You sound like such a caring, dedicated owner who really tried your heart out for your horses. I hope that you can take some comfort in knowing that you have done your best by both of them. 

I hope there is someone you can be with.
		
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l've just read your post, it's heartbreaking that after all you have been through & tried to do for your horses that you have lost them. Time will heal it's hard enough dealing with one horse being pts but two l cannot imagine. At least you have thought about their welfare which many people don't due to emotions getting in the way not wanting to let go.
Your pain will be raw at the moment but once it eases l think like a couple of people have already said something must be raised with the charity who you got the pony from to prevent this happening again to someone else. Hugs & more hugs xx


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## ozpoz (6 January 2016)

So very sorry Antigone. Thinking of you. xx


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## Red-1 (6 January 2016)

I am really sorry to hear that, I was hoping they would both pull through. x


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## Mince Pie (6 January 2016)

Thinking of you Antigone, I am so sorry you found yourself in this situation and dealing with this outcome. I hope you have some good support around you at the moment xx


As for the charity I would be raining brimstone down on them, how dare they try and wash their hands of it all after giving you a pony with strangles, leaving you thousands out of pocket and without your own beloved cob. I know you probably won't have the energy at the moment but when/if you do I would be seeking legal advice. Once again my heart goes out to you xx


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## Frankeefr (6 January 2016)

So sad, so sorry ;(


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## D66 (6 January 2016)

So sorry to hear this.  I think the charity has behaved appallingly to off load an infected pony on you and not take responsibility.


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## On the Hoof (6 January 2016)

I'm so sorry to hear this, I have followed the thread but not posted and like everyone had fingers crossed for the little mare. Big hugs for you OP xx


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## Gift Horse (6 January 2016)

What a dreadful series of events. Sorry for your loss.


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## EquiEquestrian556 (6 January 2016)

I'm so dreadfully sorry. You poor thing. What a tragic series of events.
Thinking of you in this awful time. You did the right thing for your boy, and I'm so sorry about the poor little mare.

Huge hugs, and lots of strength to you. x


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## AdorableAlice (6 January 2016)

I have no words, you poor poor lady.


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## Goldenstar (6 January 2016)

Awful awful news I am so sad for you , and angry that you're in the situation .


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## Tobiano (6 January 2016)

Oh my goodness.  Somehow I have only just found this thread.  Have been reading with great anxiety and Antigone, your update today has me in tears.  I cannot imagine how you are feeling.  I am so, so sorry for you and your lovely boy.  x x


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## Sandstone1 (6 January 2016)

So sorry.


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## julie111 (6 January 2016)

I've been following your thread, I'm so so sorry Antigone xx


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## brighteyes (6 January 2016)

I'm so sorry to hear this. My sincere condolences.


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## Arzada (6 January 2016)

So very sorry Antigone xx


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## EventingMum (6 January 2016)

Life is so unfair at times, thinking of you x


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## equestriansports (6 January 2016)

Have been following the thread and was desperately hoping your mare would pull through. I'm so sorry, thinking of you


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## Honey08 (6 January 2016)

Oh you poor thing.  What an awful thing to go through.  Hope you're ok.


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## Evie91 (6 January 2016)

Oh dear, so sorry to hear this.


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## Nikki26 (6 January 2016)

I'm so sorry. Such a brave but utterly heartbreaking decision. xx


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## charlie76 (6 January 2016)

So sorry xx


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## OldNag (6 January 2016)

I am so sorry, Antigone x


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## Peregrine Falcon (7 January 2016)

What devastating news.  I am so so sorry.  Sending huge hugs. X


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## EstherYoung (7 January 2016)

I'm so sorry to hear this, antigone. I was so hoping the little mare would turn a corner which would at least give you more options, but it wasn't to be.

Be kind to yourself xxx


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## chillipup (7 January 2016)

Thinking of you, so very sorry.


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## Princess16 (7 January 2016)

Oh no I am so sorry bless you. None of this was your fault and I can well imagine how you must be feeling re your own pony:-('just truly tragic.

I agree maybe a call to charity just to explain the devastation that has been caused and hopefully preventing this from happening to another unfortunate person in the future. Tighter controls should and must be put in place. I know your situation was rare but just one case is one case too many IMO.

Hope you have people around you ((hugs)) x


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