# irish draught stallions .....



## spacefaer (23 April 2017)

I'm planning a long way ahead but I'm thinking about having a foal from a lovely Irish Draught mare we've just bought.  

Are there any IRISH Irish Draught stallions that have a tendency to produce foals that grow bigger?  

She's 17.1hh - very quality - and we'd like to breed something for my OH so has to be 17hh++. 

Any thoughts?


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## JanetGeorge (26 April 2017)

Most stallions can surprise you by producing a tiddler when you have reasonable expectations of something rather bigger, lol, but I think the one I've experienced who has consistently produced BIGGER foals than I expected from that mare is Avanti Amorous Archie.  His biggest surprise (to date) was called King of Hearts ex a mare i THOUGHT I knew well.  I bred her, and had 2 full sisters to her and a half sister.  ALL the mares were 16.1 - their mother was 16hh.  And none of them had produced foals over about 16.3. So I THOUGHT Princess's first foal by Archie might be 16.2 - 16.3.  He was 17hh when I sold him at 4 - he's now 6 and 17.3 - I wouldn't be at all surprised (much) if he finishes over 18hh.  

But look at your mare's bloodlines.  Princess's sire was a BIG 17hh stallion I had for many years.  He lives on in his daughters.  Princess then went to my 'little' Irish Draught stallion (only 16.1) and her 4yo by him is heading fast towards 17hh.  And her 3yo is already 16.2!


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## kamili (26 April 2017)

yes, however it can be hit and miss. I know a gorgeous Irish Draught Stallion (based in Ireland though)
who has produced big horses. He is big himself, however it does depend on the mare. He's jet black too.
He's called Glenanareen Prince and he's 16.3 himself.
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?i=10518537


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## spacefaer (26 April 2017)

Thanks - the mare is 17.1 and by Star Kingdom out of an All the Diamonds/Crosstown Dancer mare. We have her (sort of)uncle who is half brother to Star Kingdom, both being by Annaghdown Star. He is just over 17.3 and a proper heavyweight. We would like to breed something with more bone, more substance, than her - she is quite sporty, but keeping the family's fabulous temperament. She moves amazingly - more like a warmblood than a draught - and has a great jump.

I've looked at AAA and while he's a lovely stamp of horse, from his pictures, he doesn't look to have as much bone as I'd like. We want to produce a hwt, not a mwt.

kamilli - 16.3 isn't big lol!


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## kamili (26 April 2017)

spacefaer said:



			kamilli - 16.3 isn't big lol!
		
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Stand beside this fella and say that, I would't have put him at 16.3 as he's very tall and very well set. 

Point I am making is that he has produced 17hh and bigger draughts quite regularly. With good temperaments too.


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## JanetGeorge (26 April 2017)

spacefaer said:



			I've looked at AAA and while he's a lovely stamp of horse, from his pictures, he doesn't look to have as much bone as I'd like. We want to produce a hwt, not a mwt.

kamilli - 16.3 isn't big lol!
		
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He was graded at 3 - and measured 9 3/4" then - he'd be at LEAST 10" now.  Bone is not something he lacks, believe me (and I've had 27 foals by him - so I DO know, lol.)

How old is your mare - and has she foaled before?


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## AdorableAlice (26 April 2017)

Archie has plenty of bone and several HW show horses competing now.  Tower Bridge, Annies Archie were in the HOYs ring together.

Archie is by Crosstown Dancer which you already have in your mare.  CD was a prolific getter of show stock, but I am not sure how wise it would be have such a close mating.

Size is a lottery as Janet says, I have a filly by Archie who is just 15.1 out of a 15h mare, I was hoping for something bigger.  I got the stamp I wanted, bone, correct, moves like a dream and a temperament to die for but another hand would have been appreciated as unless I shed a few stone, she is not big enough for me and I have to have her ridden for me.







 The same dam visited a NH stallion for her next mating and the foal, who is 4 this time was a monster at birth and 17h now, masses of bone and will be a middle, possibly a heavy when he matures.  The remit for this, bred for a friend, was 16h riding horse quality to do a bit of everything.  He does have a golden outlook and moves well too.

Did anyone mention it all being a lottery !







I looked at Sandys Light before deciding on Archie, I liked him and I also considered Ferryman with the idea of aiming for a show cob.  

I do think it is worth remembering that RID's are not historically hugely tall horses, the vast majority of top class stallions would be 16.2 give or take an inch.  It is modern times that have pushed the size up, although I did have a 1994 huge Embla George x Embla Daisy (Coleman) who was an 18h HW showhunter and medium level dressage horse.  Embla told me it was the Coleman in him that put the size in as George was only 16.2 and the mare wasn't tall.

Good luck with whatever you choose.


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## spacefaer (26 April 2017)

She's 6, and hasn't had a foal before.


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## irish_only (27 April 2017)

Bannvalley Pride of Midnight is throwing some fabulous stock. Plenty of bone and substance with real quality, and his owner Jo is fab to deal with. He stands in Yorkshire and available by AI.


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## spacefaer (27 April 2017)

irish_only said:



			Bannvalley Pride of Midnight is throwing some fabulous stock. Plenty of bone and substance with real quality, and his owner Jo is fab to deal with. He stands in Yorkshire and available by AI.
		
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He's lovely and I like his damlines - very similar to my mare's, but he's only 16hh!


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## KautoStar1 (27 April 2017)

irish_only said:



			Bannvalley Pride of Midnight is throwing some fabulous stock. Plenty of bone and substance with real quality, and his owner Jo is fab to deal with. He stands in Yorkshire and available by AI.
		
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Yes. He is Very nice indeed.  

i also like Hillview Farm Milligan.   I saw him last year and although 22 he still has that presence about him.  I think he's AI only now. 

The breed standard is being lost with these massive leggy 18h animals being produced.  An ID stallion should max out at 16.3.   

I don't understand the desire for the huge horses.  They don't last and a lot I've seen are great big bodies with little bone.


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## spacefaer (28 April 2017)

KautoStar1 said:



			Yes. He is Very nice indeed.  

i also like Hillview Farm Milligan.   I saw him last year and although 22 he still has that presence about him.  I think he's AI only now. 

The breed standard is being lost with these massive leggy 18h animals being produced.  An ID stallion should max out at 16.3.   

I don't understand the desire for the huge horses.  They don't last and a lot I've seen are great big bodies with little bone.
		
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All of our horses are 17hh+ as my partner is 6'4. He would love to be able to ride 16.2s but looks ridiculous - over topped - on them. He has a very long back so looms over them somewhat.

Bit of a sweeping statement, KS1. None of ours are leggy, they all have appropriate bone for their height, and they are all performance hunters - they're not ones that plod around at the back and heave themselves over hunt jumps. My partner's best horse is 18hh, 16 years old, sound, still going (very) strong, and has hunted with the Meynell, the Ledbury, South Shropshire, North Staffordshire, and the North Shropshire among others - he's always up front. He is pure ID and has 10" bone. 

I'm quite happy for others to breed what they want - we would like to breed something that will carry him, and hunt well. If for whatever reason, it turns out too small for him, then I can ride it instead. We're not breeding to sell, only a one off as we like the mare and she has good bloodlines.


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## KautoStar1 (28 April 2017)

Well I don't think it's a sweeping statement.  I've been out plenty on the show circuit and they are there. 

I am not suggesting your horses aren't lovely and of course if your OH is very tall then a larger horse is more appropriate. 

But the point of a breed standard is just that. To preserve type.  And type is being lost.  The pure bred ID is not a performance horse and should not be bred as such.  Performance horses should be bred using a mixture of blood, preferably (IMO) TB.  

My RID gelding is bang on breed standard- AA I'm sure will agree.  He is very old traditional lines.  You can't mistake him for anything else.  He will turn his hoof to most things and is good at most things too. He's by no means a plod but he's not sporty.  He is actually v similar in looks to Jo's stallion.


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## spacefaer (29 April 2017)

KautoStar1 said:



			Well I don't think it's a sweeping statement.  I've been out plenty on the show circuit and they are there. 

I am not suggesting your horses aren't lovely and of course if your OH is very tall then a larger horse is more appropriate. 

But the point of a breed standard is just that. To preserve type.  And type is being lost.  The pure bred ID is not a performance horse and should not be bred as such.  Performance horses should be bred using a mixture of blood, preferably (IMO) TB.  

My RID gelding is bang on breed standard- AA I'm sure will agree.  He is very old traditional lines.  You can't mistake him for anything else.  He will turn his hoof to most things and is good at most things too. He's by no means a plod but he's not sporty.  He is actually v similar in looks to Jo's stallion.
		
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But if I add blood, I'll lose bone and substance, which is what I want to add......


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## mynutmeg (16 May 2017)

What about this boy http://www.shelbournefarm.com/stallions/william/
He's one I'm strongly considering for my mare when I breed her in a few years time - he's a big lad (at least to me - my girl is only 15'1) and is based in Ireland.


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## Colivet (16 May 2017)

mynutmeg said:



			What about this boy http://www.shelbournefarm.com/stallions/william/
He's one I'm strongly considering for my mare when I breed her in a few years time - he's a big lad (at least to me - my girl is only 15'1) and is based in Ireland.
		
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William is fabulous and has a great temperament.  He stands at Cappa Stud in Ireland and it looks as if the link above is to American agents who market several Irish stallions.  As far as I am aware, he is available AI directly from Cappa.


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## mynutmeg (16 May 2017)

Thats good to hear - I think I did find the stud direct, I've definately got them on FB. Because the foal will be a pet/personal horse temperment is a huge thing for me 
http://www.cappastud.com/ballineen-its-william-class-1-rid.php I think this is the direct one


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