# New horse-testing novice owner



## AB81 (14 January 2016)

Hello there
So novice me has been the proud owner of a 16h Irish/cob (10yrs) for 4 weeks. First two weeks all good and literally one day to the next he has changed into a moody so and so! Saw him on the Thursday, instructor rode him Friday and I saw him two days later to ride. Become really girthy (had slight tail swish before) but now the ears are back and tail going mad. Even stamped his back foot. Rode him and when asked to canter he threw a buck. Didn't want him to get away with that so made him trot round again and then asked for canter and two huge full on paddy bucks/broncs. Can't believe I stayed on. Generally ears back when you go towards him and my instructor lunged him and when he was asked to canter he went completely silly. Took a while to stop the bucking and calm. Was also turning to face her a bit. After this episode he was less moody when grooming and let me touch his girth line quite happily. He is on calm and condition with chaff and has some time turned out albeit a bit limited on the livery yard as fields mud pits.
Just some general thoughts would be great. He is a bit out of shape so maybe worked him too hard too soon? He's testing me? What tips to combat this? Will he settle?!?!? Can a livery yard atmosphere affect a horse? I.e. Maybe not the correct place for him? 
Thank you!!


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## Orca (15 January 2016)

AB81 said:



			Become really girthy (had slight tail swish before) but now the ears are back and tail going mad. Even stamped his back foot. Rode him and when asked to canter he threw a buck. Didn't want him to get away with that so made him trot round again and then asked for canter and two huge full on paddy bucks/broncs. Can't believe I stayed on. Generally ears back when you go towards him and my instructor lunged him and when he was asked to canter he went completely silly. Took a while to stop the bucking and calm. Was also turning to face her a bit.
		
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These sound like pain reactions. I would have a saddler out before riding again and potentially have his back checked too. Maybe even a vet, given his unhappiness is so overt and sudden. It's rare for a horse to become nasty overnight for no reason but common for behaviour to change drastically when there is something physically wrong. Only if there is definitely nothing wrong physically would I consider it a behavioural issue.

I'm not sure about the relevance of him turning to face your instructor? My horse turns to face me on lunge when she is unsure (she's new to lunging) and for no other reason. A horse turning their rear to you can be a threat but a turn forwards usually isn't, unless coupled with a display of aggressive or threatening behaviour.


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## Equi (15 January 2016)

Horses are smart, but not that smart. A horse throwing faces and reacting that badly is in some sort of discomfort. Start with the really obvious..how is he girthed up? How much forage is he getting? Is he being ridden on an empty stomach? After that, look to the saddle and back.


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## AB81 (15 January 2016)

Thank you very much for the replies. I had thought pain but instructor dismissed and being a novice I just listened.  Have had saddler out and girth changed to neoprene. On your recommendations I shall get his back checked too. Will let you know.


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## BethH (15 January 2016)

May I just say also, if the instructor is unsympathetic and can't hear what the horse is trying to tell them that would make me question a little whether it was the correct instructor.  I only say this as years ago when I first bought my sweet natured youngster my usual instructor was so busy she couldn't fit me into her schedule.  I found someone else to help and my horse was quite intimidated & really flared up.  The instructor rode him through it and continued to do so for weeks, to the extent my poor little horse started having panic attacks at going in the school.  This was an AII instructor who told me my horse had been sold on to me because he was malicious.  As it turned out he was in agony from Kissing spines and when asked to worked correctly it was clearly hurting.  Me being a novice, I took the advice of that instructor until I realised what was going on and put a swift stop to him riding my horse.  My old instructor managed to come and help and the flare ups stopped as he was gradually worked sympathetically and put good muscle on - that was one of the best lessons I've ever had!!

It may be may be lack of turnout and too much energy to burn, but also if the instructor is asking for too much, maybe your new horse couldn't cope with the pressure.  I too would get the back and also teeth checked, but it would also be worth you doing some ground work with your new horse to build a bond.  Look at the Kelly Marks "Perfect Manners" book.  I think it's a bit of a bible for new horse owners and try to imagine yourself in your horse's situation with so much change.  The ground work saved my horse, he was such a poppet  handling from the ground I knew for sure he wasn't a nasty horse.

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## AB81 (15 January 2016)

That's really good advice and I've had restless nights wondering the same thing. She told me to calm down! Right new assertive me! I shall have him checked out and shall say no more riding for the time being. I did ask and say I'd like more turn out for him but apparently the fields are a nightmare. Even though her horses are out..... Yes shall look at the 'bible' and work on ground manners. I always ensure he is mannered (not charging off when being lead, stepping back when asked) but will keep attentive on that until we see what's up with him. Thank you so much!


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## 9tails (15 January 2016)

Your post seems to scream pain.  Was your saddle fitted to him?


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## AB81 (15 January 2016)

Hi, no it wasn't as saddler wasn't available so used one from instructor. Saddler has been out now and measured and saddle is on its way via courier today. Feel so awful that he's been in pain and wish I'd just stuck to my guns initially when I mentioned it to my instructor. As a novice you always feel so bottom of the rank that you don't dare say anything for fear of looking like an idiot. But I said to my husband on the day I went to see him, my horse has changed overnight and I wasn't the last to ride him  As I say I've been down today and turned him out in the sun and have said he is not doing any riding until saddle is there and checked by saddler. Also have got in touch with a recommend osteopath. If all that doesn't help him (oh and dentist on way too!) then it's to the vet.


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## AB81 (15 January 2016)

Would also like to add that I'm amazed how incredibly helpful people are here. Thank you. V reassuring to have support and other points of view &#128522;


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## 9tails (15 January 2016)

Your instructor sounds a bit of a numpty.


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## BethH (15 January 2016)

Can I just say lucky horse - he's found a cracking new owner who is prepared to listen to the advice given having asked for it.  There are many owners who have been around horses for years that aren't able to do this so I suspect you'll crack this and go on to have a wonderful journey with your new horse.  As for the "bible", I was staggered by how much common sense was in it and horrified that half of it hadn't occurred to me.  It turned out to be very useful, 12years on I still lend it out to everyone and they usually find something useful in there.  Wishing you the best of luck.


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## Orca (15 January 2016)

AB81 said:



			Hi, no it wasn't as saddler wasn't available so used one from instructor. Saddler has been out now and measured and saddle is on its way via courier today. Feel so awful that he's been in pain and wish I'd just stuck to my guns initially when I mentioned it to my instructor. As a novice you always feel so bottom of the rank that you don't dare say anything for fear of looking like an idiot. But I said to my husband on the day I went to see him, my horse has changed overnight and I wasn't the last to ride him  As I say I've been down today and turned him out in the sun and have said he is not doing any riding until saddle is there and checked by saddler. Also have got in touch with a recommend osteopath. If all that doesn't help him (oh and dentist on way too!) then it's to the vet.
		
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Please don't feel awful! I believe you posted here because instinctively, you knew something was wrong. Otherwise, you would have just followed your instructors lead without question and this could have continued indefinitely.

I agree with the post above. You sounds like a great owner and as your confidence grows, things will only get better. Trust yourself &#55357;&#56842; no-one knows your horse better than you and I agree that time spent on the ground can really help you to get to understand each other and create a bond. 

Good luck in resolving this and best of luck in finding an instructor who is more in line with your way of thinking.


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## AB81 (15 January 2016)

Thank you for all your encouragement and wise words. Will keep you posted on his progress and I'm sure many more posts along the way! First one...what makes a good riding instructor?! &#128513; Main priority is to get my horse happy and back to Mr soppy eyes &#128532;


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## BethH (15 January 2016)

Go watch some other peoples lessons, ask around to get some names, go to your local feedbarns, they are bound to have come across some good teachers.  What area are you in, someone on this forum may be able to recommend someone.

I might be inclined to go with more classical training initially where they teach/improve your seat so that your horse can move in a relaxed fashion with you not against you. It needs to be someone who can confirm and really instill the basics for both you and your horse.  It may be you outgrow them in time, but someone to ensure you are confident & clear in what you are asking of your horse is vital at this point.  We all go back a few steps now and then to be able to move forwards again.  Look at the TTT (training teachers of tomorrow) they may tweak your interest, they teach good instructors to teach even better!  Make sure you use someone you can have some fun with as well, it's an expensive hobby, make sure you enjoy it.


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## Makemineacob (15 January 2016)

AB81 said:



			Thank you for all your encouragement and wise words. Will keep you posted on his progress and I'm sure many more posts along the way! First one...what makes a good riding instructor?! &#55357;&#56833; Main priority is to get my horse happy and back to Mr soppy eyes &#55357;&#56852;
		
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Well done for asking and not being content to believe your instructor.  Always trust your instincts, your horse will immediately tell you if anything is wrong and you will find that the more time you spend with him, the more you will begin to learn about him and recognise the tiniest of signs of anything wrong.  Any behavioural changes I would always look to a pain or discomfort issue and work from then.  

Very pleased for you that you have resolved the issues, you need to part company with your previous instructor, as others have said get recommendations and go and watch some lessons, not every instructor will suit you and you need to find someone that you can work with.  I think most of us will admit to having had frankly awful instructors who have affected confidence and dreading lessons!  There are a lot of brilliant instructors out there who will inspire you and treat your horse sympathetically.


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## Mince Pie (15 January 2016)

Has the feed been changed? More or less turnout? Similar routine? If you think it's pain I'd be thinking about a bute trial and see if there are any improvements. Was he vetted?


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## rachk89 (15 January 2016)

Definitely don't feel guilty how were you to know? You listened to a supposed to be more experienced person who told you the wrong thing. Not your fault at all. 

You may find that with a properly fitting saddle that the pain goes away by itself. My boy had a slight pain in his spine thanks to previously badly fitting saddles and once I got one for him the pain went away by itself. I didn't get a physio out at all. You may need one since he is reacting so badly and my horse never reacted to me but still it will help.

Your horse is very lucky to have a caring owner and he will be thankful for it. My horse loves me just because I changed his life for the better he gets fed a stable proper rugs and no bad saddle. I imagine your boy will be the same. Good luck with him and enjoy your time together.


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## Leo Walker (15 January 2016)

AB81 said:



			Hi, no it wasn't as saddler wasn't available so used one from instructor. Saddler has been out now and measured and saddle is on its way via courier today. Feel so awful that he's been in pain and wish I'd just stuck to my guns initially when I mentioned it to my instructor. As a novice you always feel so bottom of the rank that you don't dare say anything for fear of looking like an idiot. But I said to my husband on the day I went to see him, my horse has changed overnight and I wasn't the last to ride him  As I say I've been down today and turned him out in the sun and have said he is not doing any riding until saddle is there and checked by saddler. Also have got in touch with a recommend osteopath. If all that doesn't help him (oh and dentist on way too!) then it's to the vet.
		
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Well done for getting to the bottom of it  I'm not a novice, but went through a similar thing with my young cob. Except he'd had all the checks, saddle and back done TWICE! I knew he wasnt happy but thought I was going mad or was just being incompetent. Everyone kept saying he was just being naughty as he was 5yr old. This seemed feasible, especially as he was being vile to handle as well.

Turns out his saddle didnt fit at all and was at least an inch too long. Following me finding a really good fitter hes had to have a fair amount of physio work as he was trying so hard to behave that he was in a bit of a state. He was also going without food for about 12 hours most nights, due to an incompetent yard not feeding or looking after him properly.I too feel absolutely awful!

But, like you, I did get him sorted and as soon as I found out about the yard he was moved! There was a panicky New Years day move, which was incredibly stressful. Hes a different horse now though, and I have learnt a very valuable lesson to listen to my gut instinct!


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## AB81 (15 January 2016)

More fab comments.Yes he was vetted-5 stage and if the first few stages I've put in place don't work then I shall call for the vet. He is on different food. Calm and condition with chaff. He was on pony nuts before....More turnout than before as his previous yard had no turnout. 
Saw him this evening for a cuddle and to tuck him in and he started ears back but I just ignored those and carried on talking to him and stroking him and they came forward and in the end he nodded off with his nose under my armpit. &#128525; Told my instructor about osteo and was told that if I want to, fine, but personally she wouldn't. Also that she changed his rug this morning and 'he gave me a look as if he was thinking about doing something, but then thought no I won't dare with her.' She obviously believes he is testing still. I shall stick to my guns and get my boy sorted. Thanks people so much!


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## BethH (16 January 2016)

If your instructor is also your yard manager, just keep an eye on the situation.  If horse and Yard manager aren't understanding of each other, you can make sure you discreetly watch how he is being handled etc, it may be that he is being rude, but it may be the YM/instructor is being rough or too loud in her body language.  If your new horse is sensitive, that can set them off especially at the beginning and the poor relationship on the ground could be why he has flared up in the school because he feels stressed. I am always very careful about how and who handles my horse.  This is your horse and your are paying for help with livery and lessons to make the relationship work, so be tactful with your YM but make sure things are being done in the way you are comfortable with.  Or; it could just be that he needs that new saddle you've got coming!!!


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## Makemineacob (16 January 2016)

OP- BethH's post is very sensible advice indeed.


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## AB81 (16 January 2016)

Absolutely it's brilliant advice and its marking all these feelings I've had. All the horses are edgy at the yard. Even riding school ones, even her own.  I will watch v. carefully and if it means changing yards then so be it. My horse is definitely a sensitive flower. &#128525;


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## wench (16 January 2016)

I'd also suggest taking him off the calm and condition, the name is very misleading. It has the same amount of energy as some competition feeds. 

He would be better off on just some pony nuts, hi fibre nuts or a low cal balancer.


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## AB81 (16 January 2016)

That's a really interesting Point. It was my instructor/ yard owner who suggested that food as hers are on it. Thank you for that advice.


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## Makemineacob (17 January 2016)

AB81 said:



			Absolutely it's brilliant advice and its marking all these feelings I've had. All the horses are edgy at the yard. Even riding school ones, even her own.  I will watch v. carefully and if it means changing yards then so be it. My horse is definitely a sensitive flower. &#55357;&#56845;
		
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I would be watching very carefully if all of the horses are edgy, a whole yard of edgy horses would indicate to me there is an issue with the handling etc.  generally yards will have a mix of quiet and calm with a few stressy horses added in. For the whole yard to be edgy indicates something is wrong to me.  

If your horse is sensitive then as others say, poor handling will just make more issues for you.  Strip back his feed to basics with lots of fibre and watch things carefully.  

It may not be the YO, could be another member of staff so I would watch everyone, you can just say to people that you're watching as you want to learn how to do stuff.  Horses are like litmus paper, they will always show you (even with the smallest signs) if they mistrust someone.  

Our farrier always comments on how peaceful our yard is (we had 7 at one point), we handle calmly, there's no histrionics and the horses are handled consistently.  Makes a huge difference.


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## ycbm (17 January 2016)

You've had your horse four weeks. After two weeks he changed overnight into a moody, mean horse. This is classic for a horse that was drugged with bute to sell. I would ask your vet to have the blood test checked for painkillers immediately.  It should cost about £75. 

I hope you find it's nothing of the kind, but if it is then the earlier you act, the better.


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## Fun Times (17 January 2016)

ycbm said:



			You've had your horse four weeks. After two weeks he changed overnight into a moody, mean horse. This is classic for a horse that was drugged with bute to sell. I would ask your vet to have the blood test checked for painkillers immediately.  It should cost about £75. 

I hope you find it's nothing of the kind, but if it is then the earlier you act, the better.
		
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I must say I do agree with ycbm. At least you can then rule this out. Have you spoken to the people you bought the horse from and asked them for their advice as to whether the horse has done this before? It can be interesting just to hear how they respond to the question to gauge whether you think they are hiding anything.


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