# Garlic with feed?



## EJR (21 August 2016)

Hi all, new horse owner here!

Horse is coming in a few days, current owner feeds her garlic in her 2 feeds everyday. I've looked it up and there seems to be a debate on whether it's toxic or not. She said she feeds her it as she likes the taste of it (not for flies or anything). I was wondering what your opinions/experiences of feeding garlic are?

Thanks!


----------



## Amye (22 August 2016)

I feed garlic to my boy as this was the normal for him - 2 small scoops a day - after reading it may be toxic in large doses i'm starting to reduce the amount he gets to nothing.
I'm not sure how toxic it really is in small doses over a long period of time as no research has been done, and lots of things can be toxic in large doses but aren't in small (like bananas for us). BUT if you don't see any benefit in feeding it then I would start to cut it out. 
I can't see that the garlic is giving my boy any benefit, he still gets fly bites (I think that's a myth anyway) so i'm not going to give him it anymore. I doubt she will miss it, if there's no benefit, no point in feeding


----------



## JillA (22 August 2016)

Garlic is a natural antibacterial and as such damages the gut flora. There are no proven benefits and it has been linked to one form of anaemia - personally I would never ever feed it


----------



## Casey76 (22 August 2016)

^^This


----------



## ester (22 August 2016)

Garlic has no place in a horse's diet it isn't about it being toxic to the horse it is about it's impact on the gut microflora as JillA says. 
It also often makes itchy horses itchier (trying to get this through the a sweetitch owner on the yard!)


----------



## Shay (22 August 2016)

You opened a can of worms there OP!

I do feed garlic - in small amounts for small periods of time.  It has its uses.  But there is a significant minority who are opposed to it on general principles.  Just as there is in so much or the horse world - barefoot v shod.  Live in v live out. Parelli v anything else. etc. etc.  This is something we are all a passionate about.

Probably the most important thing is know why you are feeding what you are feeding and then stick to your guns.  Every horse is different and every person managing a horse is different.  

That said... I wouldn't tend to feed garlic just because I thought the horse liked the taste.  I'm not sure how we as humans would tell that anyway.  Perhaps cut it down with a view to removing it and see how she does?


----------



## ester (22 August 2016)

Shay can I ask what benefits you think you get for the times you feed it? For the most part it seems to be advertised either as a fly repellent or respiratory benefits? I am curious as to why people do use it because most people tend to say just because...! some marketing even says it is beneficial to the digestive system, I would like to know their theory of mechanism behind that
It isn't something I am passionate about, just follow the research/spend too much time playing with bacteria myself.


----------



## EJR (22 August 2016)

Thank you very much for all your replies, very helpful!

Im going to gradually cut it out until it is cut completely. I feel like this would be the right thing to do.


----------



## Tyssandi (22 August 2016)

EJR said:



			Hi all, new horse owner here!

Horse is coming in a few days, current owner feeds her garlic in her 2 feeds everyday. I've looked it up and there seems to be a debate on whether it's toxic or not. She said she feeds her it as she likes the taste of it (not for flies or anything). I was wondering what your opinions/experiences of feeding garlic are?

Thanks! 

Click to expand...

  I would never feed garlic due to 


a.  from the onion family  which is toxic

b.  there is no proof it deters flies
c.  It stinks the place out   ( feedroom )
d. It can cause behavioral problems.

 It will be your horse now and you can change anything you want.


----------



## EJR (22 August 2016)

Thanks tyssandi, from reading up on it and from majority opinion here I think you're right. I'm going to cut it out gradually.


----------



## Cortez (23 August 2016)

Horses don't eat garlic as a general rule if it occurs in pasture (it grows wild in woodland), it doesn't have any effect on flies (which is what is promoted to do), and it adversly affects the gut and the immune system. Why would you feed it?


----------



## Irish gal (23 August 2016)

This is interesting. A supplement that has massively taken off over here is called Garlic Seaweed, made by a man called Sid Flynn. Lots of racing yards are using it and top jumpers like Bertram Allen and people are reporting great results.

It's various seaweeds and of course garlic. Garlic has many medicinal properties for people at least. So is it believed to be toxic for horses? 

That's a new one, so I wonder why the Garlic Seaweed seems to be working so well. Surely yards like Bertram Allen's would be well up on the scientific effects of everything they are feeding. He's in the top ten in the world at the mo.


----------



## ester (23 August 2016)

Does it actually have medicinal properties for people though?


----------



## MotherOfChickens (23 August 2016)

Irish gal said:



			This is interesting. A supplement that has massively taken off over here is called Garlic Seaweed, made by a man called Sid Flynn. Lots of racing yards are using it and top jumpers like Bertram Allen and people are reporting great results.

It's various seaweeds and of course garlic. Garlic has many medicinal properties for people at least. So is it believed to be toxic for horses? 

That's a new one, so I wonder why the Garlic Seaweed seems to be working so well. Surely yards like Bertram Allen's would be well up on the scientific effects of everything they are feeding. He's in the top ten in the world at the mo.
		
Click to expand...

I think horse people are among the least scientific and most superstitious lot and it doesn't usually get any better the higher end of the scale IME. 

Garlic is toxic, the alliums are toxic, they're toxic to horses and other species such as dogs and cats (5 x more toxic to dogs than onions, I knew a vet histopathologist who could tell if a dog had been fed garlic by their nails). Its toxic to humans in higher doses.People may not see any adverse affects and there may be none in some animals, there may be subclinical stuff going on.


----------



## Cortez (23 August 2016)

Irish gal said:



			This is interesting. A supplement that has massively taken off over here is called Garlic Seaweed, made by a man called Sid Flynn. Lots of racing yards are using it and top jumpers like Bertram Allen and people are reporting great results.

That's a new one, so I wonder why the Garlic Seaweed seems to be working so well. Surely yards like Bertram Allen's would be well up on the scientific effects of everything they are feeding. He's in the top ten in the world at the mo.
		
Click to expand...

Er, just because someone is a good rider doesn't mean they know anything about the science-y stuff. Lots of superstitious nonsense goes on amongst the horsey crowd, at any level. 

Seaweed and extracts thereof does supply some nutrients that have benefits for hair, skin and hooves. And the placebo effect acounts for a lot of the "improvements" that people attribute to whatever wonder supplement happens to be doing the rounds. Garlic has been comprehensively proven to be detrimental.


----------



## Irish gal (23 August 2016)

Had a little trawl of inter web and it is toxic for horses. Am shocked that anyone would start a supplement without checking out the main ingredients! It's pure lunacy.

It does have a lot of medicinal properties for people though. There's loads of scientific studies for anyone who wants to ask google. I definitely won't be giving it to the horse but will start taking it myself


----------



## tallyho! (23 August 2016)

I'm in the "no" camp 

Far nicer things to feed horses that actually do some good... e.g. mint, meadowsweet, clivers, chickweed, nettle, dandelion, clary sage... rosehips... erm oats... ok running out of herbs now.


----------



## ester (23 August 2016)

Saves too much of a job, I like it when others do the reviews  All very 'potential but'

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4103721/




			Conclusion
A recent increase in the popularity of alternative medicine and natural products has renewed interest in garlic and their derivatives as potential natural remedies. This review may be useful to increase our knowledge of garlic therapeutic effects and improve our future experimental and clinical research plans. Although it is shown that garlic may have a significant clinical potential either in their own right or as adjuvant therapy in different disorders, however, due to some issues, such as methodological inadequacies, small sample sizes, lack of information regarding dose rationale, variation between efficacy and effectiveness trials, the absence of a placebo comparator, or lack of control groups more standard experiments and researches are needed to confirm the beneficial effect of garlic in various diseases. Future trials on the effect of garlic should include information on the dosage of active ingredients of standardized garlic preparations for better comparison of trials. It would also be interesting to explore the effect of different forms of garlic extract on standard drug therapy, especially when used as adjuvant therapy.

Although garlic is believed to be a safe substance, long-term trials of reasonable duration would provide insights into the possible side-effects of different garlic extracts. The safety of garlic should be tested especially in pregnant or breastfeeding women as well as in young children (Budzynska et al., 2012; Dante et al., 2013). Long-term and large trials are also needed to evaluate the differences in mortality, serious adverse events, and morbidity of cancer and cardiovascular diseases after garlic therapy.
		
Click to expand...


----------



## tristar (23 August 2016)

when l lived in france, it was often said that if you ate garlic every day you would never get cancer, and people would say you only need a little.


----------



## tallyho! (23 August 2016)

ester said:



			Saves too much of a job, I like it when others do the reviews  All very 'potential but'

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4103721/

Click to expand...

Only in humans though.... 

You know, personally I think it's damned tasty baked in some bake-able cheese. 

I swear it keeps dracula at bay too...


----------



## MiJodsR2BlinkinTite (23 August 2016)

ester said:



			Garlic has no place in a horse's diet it isn't about it being toxic to the horse it is about it's impact on the gut microflora as JillA says. 
It also often makes itchy horses itchier (trying to get this through the a sweetitch owner on the yard!)
		
Click to expand...

^^^ This. My vet advised against feeling my sweet itchy cob any garlic. Said to avoid it at all costs.


----------



## ester (23 August 2016)

tallyho! said:



			Only in humans though.... 

You know, personally I think it's damned tasty baked in some bake-able cheese. 

I swear it keeps dracula at bay too...
		
Click to expand...

Oh yes, it was only because I had questioned whether it was actually any good in humans, I have no need to go and find the equine papers, read them


----------



## EJR (23 August 2016)

Haha! 

Question. She only gave a tablespoon so do I still need to gradually phase the garlic out with so little?


----------



## be positive (23 August 2016)

EJR said:



			Haha! 

Question. She only gave a tablespoon so do I still need to gradually phase the garlic out with so little?
		
Click to expand...

There is no need to phase it out, just stop using it he should be more than happy with whatever he is still getting.


----------



## EJR (23 August 2016)

I wasn't sure but great, thank you!


----------

