# Bute & still lame?



## k9h (17 August 2009)

Post for a friend.

Horse has been on 2 bute a day for about 3 weeks I think but is still lame?

So does this mean it's not pain because the bute should be masking the pain. So it is the mechanically??

Not to bad in walk but deffinetly in trot.

Ideas on a post card!

Mare is getting on in years! But wants for nothing.


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## bailey14 (17 August 2009)

It might be that whatever is causing her pain which is making her lame is not being controlled adequately by the bute, so it may be that the dose needs to be upped. However bute should not be fed in high quantities for a long period of time.  My vet recommends 3-4 bute when my horse is colicky - he is approx 620KG and 17hh, so if your friends horse is a big girl then it may be that she is not having enough bute for her bodyweight.  I do know that horses cannot 'put on' lameness, it irritates the cr*p out of me when people say there horse is lame because "it doesn't want to work".  EeeurghH.  
	
	
		
		
	


	




 Horses are not capable of thinking in this mind set.


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## vicijp (17 August 2009)

If a horse is still lame on 2 bute a day then further investigation is definately needed. 
Remember that bute isn't actually a very strong painkiller, so it may not be that bad, but you do need to find out what it is.


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## k9h (17 August 2009)

Thank you both!

Soory for spelling in previous post just read it &amp; it is bad! Whoops!

She's knocking on 17hh old hunter so bigish but not heavyweight.

Has navicular but vet says that is not to do with this lameness?


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## Jodies9154 (17 August 2009)

Has the lameness lessened on Bute?

The way to definitively know whether the lameness is due to pain or mechanical reasons is with the use of nerve blocks, which obviously gets more difficult if it goes higher than the elbow or hock.

What is the plan for the horse recovery wise? Has the owner kept to it e.g. meant to be on bute and box rest but the horse has been turned out etc?


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## k9h (17 August 2009)

Owner following vet advice. She is living out &amp; getting walked in hand for 20min twice a day.

Lameness not changed with bute.

Sound in walk just when you trot she is lame.

I was thinking nerve blocks to se if mechanical.


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## Jodies9154 (17 August 2009)

Has the vet reassessed the situation since the horse has been on bute? Yeah I reckon the next step would be nerve blocks and a proper lameness work up but if the mare is quite old then you would need to decide whether the money can be out into a proper work up.

What was the original diagnosis?


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## Donkeymad (17 August 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
 I do know that horses cannot 'put on' lameness, it irritates the cr*p out of me when people say there horse is lame because "it doesn't want to work".  EeeurghH.  
	
	
		
		
	


	




 Horses are not capable of thinking in this mind set. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, but yes, they can and do.


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## fatpiggy (18 August 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
 I do know that horses cannot 'put on' lameness, it irritates the cr*p out of me when people say there horse is lame because "it doesn't want to work".  EeeurghH.  
	
	
		
		
	


	




 Horses are not capable of thinking in this mind set. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, but yes, they can and do. 

[/ QUOTE ]

I second that!  I used to ride a little pony who genuinely did hurt his stifle (12.2 over a 5 foot hedge with a ditch on the other side!). He was rested for several weeks, but strangely would go lame when ridden and become instantly sound as soon as his tack came off and he was released back into the field.  I also knew an old riding school horse who would forget which leg he claimed hurt and would limp on the other one for an hour or two before swapping back.


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## GermanyJo (19 August 2009)

could that possibly be because horse was bilaterally lame ?? 

Sorry , I have to agree.. horses are not able to put on lameness in order to avoid work - they are either lame, or not. 
Annoys the crap out of me when I see comments like that too.


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## silverbreeze (19 August 2009)

But there is a vast difference between a mechanical lameness mentioned by OP and that of a pain related lameness.
 Bridle lame is a term I have heard used for years and years, is this not 'put on' lameness. Horses are capable of learned behaviour through association so surely there could be this kind of behaviour exhibited this way by some horses, like door kicking for example.they get attention so they do it again, they limp and the hard work stops?? 
Noone knows 100percent how horses think so how can we be so sure this isn't possible, I have met some cunning little beggars in my time!
 I have never witnessed this bridle lameness, merely playing devils advocate!


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## GermanyJo (20 August 2009)

ok, maybe I am being extremely stupid here, but can someone please give me an example of a  non painful 'mechanical lameness' - not sure I have ever come across a horse who is lame, but has no pain.. if they have no pain, they are not lame.. or ??


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## silverbreeze (20 August 2009)

I can give you a perfect example. My youngster sustained an impact injury when she was a month old that caused an intamuscular haematoma and put so much pressure on one of her nerves that she couldn't move from the fetlock down for a few months whilst the swelling subsided. This affected her walk as she learnt to hitch through the hip so that she could place her foot flat on the floor. She now has a mechanical lameness I.e. Looks lame without pain, but full use of the leg has returned.
I also had a mare who damaged her ham string really badly, so much so that the string healed in a way that restricted her through movement, another mechanical lameness. 
It simply means that an injury has healed incorrectly thus restricting or affecting their gait. It is a recognised thing as we had a vet note for my youngster for grading so that they would know it isn't a natural gait issue.
I am also mechanically lame due to a problem I have with my pelvis so I walk with a limp, but no pain.


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## Patches (20 August 2009)

[ QUOTE ]
ok, maybe I am being extremely stupid here, but can someone please give me an example of a  non painful 'mechanical lameness' - not sure I have ever come across a horse who is lame, but has no pain.. if they have no pain, they are not lame.. or ?? 

[/ QUOTE ]

My horse moves with a strange gait behind. She jerks and taps her toe down during the stride...causing excessive wear to her hind toes.

I took her for a full lameness work up (although she has always done this) as it niggled me and I'd occasionally get strange looks when out hacking. I figured other people thought she looked lame. 

She was flexioned, nerve blocked and xrayed. The vet could neither make the gait "problem" worse through flexions and lungeing on different surfaces _or_ improve it with extensive nerve blocks. 

It was deemed to be "just her way of going", so I guess it could be considered a "mechnical" issue...but not a lameness in the true sense of the word as we've proved there is no pain associated with it.


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## silverbreeze (21 August 2009)

Definition of lame in this context: Moving with pain OR difficulty on account of injury, defect, or temporary obstruction of a function; as, a lame leg, arm, or muscle

So I guess that it can still be classed as lameness as it is due to an injury but no longer causes pain.. I bet the OP had no idea what a can of worms they were opening up here


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## Slaneyrose (13 May 2021)

fatpiggy said:



			[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I do know that horses cannot 'put on' lameness, it irritates the cr*p out of me when people say there horse is lame because "it doesn't want to work".  EeeurghH.  
	
	
		
		
	


	




 Horses are not capable of thinking in this mind set.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, but yes, they can and do.

[/ QUOTE ]

I second that!  I used to ride a little pony who genuinely did hurt his stifle (12.2 over a 5 foot hedge with a ditch on the other side!). He was rested for several weeks, but strangely would go lame when ridden and become instantly sound as soon as his tack came off and he was released back into the field.  I also knew an old riding school horse who would forget which leg he claimed hurt and would limp on the other one for an hour or two before swapping back.[/QUOT
Oh my days, don't be ridiculous! The horse probably wasn't in as much pain once you got off!! As for the alternating legs... it was probably hurt in both, joint pain and muscle spasms can go like that.
		
Click to expand...


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## ycbm (13 May 2021)

Zombie thread!


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## Amymay (13 May 2021)

ycbm said:



			Zombie thread!
		
Click to expand...

Megga zombie thread 🤣🤣


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## Pinkvboots (13 May 2021)




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