# Information about Irish Draught x Thoroughbred horse.



## Jadejods (16 November 2006)

Hello all.

I am new to the forum and would like to ask for advice please.

I have bought a 16.1 bay gelding, he is an Irish Draught cross Thoroughbred , although his passport just says Thoroughbred cross, but other people have suggested he is crossed with an Irish Draught!!

I have had him for 6 months.

Can anyone give me any information about this breed, and what thier character is generally like?

I know all horses have thier own personality, but i just mean generally.

The reason i ask, is , i have found him to be ridiculously strong, he is no fun to ride, very much on his forhand and i cannot stop him in canter, he is in a pelham, curb, flash and running martingale and still resists me, even though i use all my riding skills 
	
	
		
		
	


	





He threw me 2 weeks ago and i am sat at home nursing 3 broken ribs.

I cannot decide wheter to sell him or not...........ooh, decisions, decisions!

Thanks for you help in advance.


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## Mid (16 November 2006)

Irish draughts are generally very strong, but often used in riding schools as they seem to have lovely temperments. As for TBs... xD I suppose it's not the best mix! However, he may be in pain for a number of reasons!

I'd get the vet to check him out, and if he passes it, sell him 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 Riding's supposed to be fun!


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## Madam_max (16 November 2006)

They are usually a very good mix of horse, that is why so there are so many and so many competing very successfully.  As the ID is normally the very sane, but you have the speed etc of a TB.  But as you say they are all very different so you can't generalise.  Do you know ay of his history?  Where did you buy his from? 

Hope you get better soon.


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## Jadejods (16 November 2006)

I have had his back checked and a made to measure saddle, i do need to get his teeth looked at though.

I completley agree, riding should be fun, i find riding him a chore and do not look forward to it, i really do think i will sell him to be honest, but i am curious about the breed you see.

I suppose i am wondering, is it me who cannot handle just him, or are most TB X ID horses like this.

You need arms like Popeye to slow him down let alone stop!

Short of putting barbed wire in his mouth i do not know what else to do?

I know we should not rely on Bits, but with all my aids and riding techniques, still cannot handle him.


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## Sparklet (16 November 2006)

The ID x TB is very common and usually make brilliant riding horses.  There are variations in temperament though and occasionally you can get a highly strung version but that doesnt seem to be your problem.

You probably need to provide a little more information - for example how old is he, what did he do before you got him, has he got worse during the 6 months you have owned him, was he ridding in a pelham, flash, martingale etc before?

What happened when he threw you?

Have you had his back, saddle and teeth checked during the 6 months because the problem you have may be pain related.   

Racing forward in canter is indicative of lack of balance and if he is on his forehand that suggest that this may be the case  - alternative he could be worried about the bitting and sometimes they take a hold and run because they are worried about pain - a flash is not used with a curb so that could be the source of your problem.

Have you had any lessons during the 6 months and what does your instructor say?


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## Alibear (16 November 2006)

It definitly not the breed my IDxTB reached the dizzy heights of Advanced medium and is a pleasure to ride if a little lazy. 

Had another one before who was a fantastic jumper and also breaks were pretty good too. I swear he could read as he take anybody round a course even if they didn't know the way.

Gnerally they are really nice easy horses but as with everything you get exceptions.


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## SillyMare (16 November 2006)

Agree with Madam_Max, IDxTB horses have a very good reputation as safe, sound and sensible horses with enough quality to do most jobs.

If he is built on his forehand and running then using a stronger bit often doesn not solve the problem - try getting some lessons with a good instructor who can help you school him. 

You don't say how old he is, what he had done before and how much experience you have. He may not be the right horse for you at the moment - again a good instructor could advise you once they have seen you together.


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## TGM (16 November 2006)

I used to ride an ID x TB and although he had his faults, having no brakes wasn't one of them!  He was a very kind boy, although rather lazy and built rather downhill and therefore tended to be on the forehand.  He would lean a lot on one rein but this was more to do with lack of balance than lack of brakes!


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## moodymare1987 (16 November 2006)

I have a idxtb he is the total opposite to yours, mine is quite highly strung, he is not really heavily built but he isnt like a racehorse, bit inbetween, I like him like that, i dont like predictable horses i find i get bored, i agree with what the others have said get his back and teeth checked, And did he have all that tack on when you bought him? xx


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## samp (16 November 2006)

Sounds like your horse either needs some serious schooling - lots or transitions. lateral movements etc. Get some lessons and failing this if it still is not happening then perhaps you are not suitbale match?


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## Mid (16 November 2006)

"I suppose i am wondering, is it me who cannot handle just him, or are most TB X ID horses like this."

No - Generally you inherit the temperment of the ID and the speed and indurance of the TB, but it looks like your's only inherited the worse qualities - Strength of ID and sillyness of TB...

ID's are my favourite breed... Get his mouth checked. Like I said, if you're not enjoying it, it's really not worth spending his livery, farrier and feed bills...


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## Jadejods (16 November 2006)

Let me give you more information so you can get a picture and be more able to help me.

He is 11 years old, his first owner was a teenager who raced him around almost daily, he did not know how to canter and galloped aroung like a fun horse with an over enthusiastic child!

He stayed with her until he was 7 years old, he then went to his last owner who i bought him from.

She kept him until i got him 6 months ago. She had really worked on him and eventually they did eventing, Dressage, team chasing and showjumping, he was placed almost every time .
He has also hunted as well.
She had an incredible bond with him, it was quite beautiful to see!

He knows his job and the accident i had was not his fault.

I was having a jumping lesson and the riding instructor told me to canter in a 20 meter circle, as i was doing this for some silly reason i pulled him to the left, he took a sharp turn at high speed and i lost my balance, unfortunatley the jump was in the way and i was thrown onto the jump and broke 3 ribs.

I am 39 and have been riding since i was about 8 years old, but always riding school ponies, this is my first own horse.

He is kept at home as i have 2 acre of land at the rear of my house so he see's me all the time day and night.

He was not in a pelham when i had him, he was in a Myler French Link snaffle and NO noseband at all!

I put him in all this tackle in an attempt to control him!!

I am probably not skilled enough to manage him.....as the saying goe's, i have probably over horsed myself!


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## 4whitesocks (16 November 2006)

My Boy is IDxTB and is an absolute star - like other have said the temperament of the ID and the speed &amp; agility of the TB....your horse sounds like he has issues that are nothing to do with his breeding but more likely to do with his schooling/history age/pain issues etc.

Any more info on him?


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## Rambo (16 November 2006)

One of the best mixes around for general purpose riding horses, so no, there's nothing wrong with the 'mix'. However, a good 'mix' doesn't necessarily make a good horse. That comes down to schooling, handling, conformation and temprament. I have had a couple of IDxTB's. One was a complete sh1t who had no respect for human life, the other was the most trainable and affable character you could ever wish for.

You say that he is on the forehand and pulls a lot. Perhaps a pelham isn't the best bit in this situation, but it's hard to tell without more information. Also, how big are you, compared to him ? Both of mine were large horses, and a small framed girl could have had difficulties with them. 

If you're not having lessons with him, then i'd suggest you do. Otherwise, perhaps accept that you are not compatible with each other and move on


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## 4whitesocks (16 November 2006)

OK sounds to me like you need to go back to basics - he is obviously capable and well schooled, by whacking all the extra gear on him you are probably adding fuel to the fire - can you go back to the comfort snaffle?  Can you get your instructor to have a look at all his kit and recommend a bit for you? Or could they ride him for you once or twice and make some recommendations?  Has his feed changed substantially since you got him? Could this be making him fizzy?


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## Sparklet (16 November 2006)

Dont beat yourself up Cocobay - things may be resolvable because he does sound like a well school gentleman and you probably need some regular lessons with a good instructor.

If you are struggling with the control at the moment which sounds to be the case (hence the stronger bitting) having jumping lessons if probably not wise.  He obviously goes pretty well in a snaffle because he would not have got the marks he has at dressage/eventing so I would definitely aim to return him to a snaffle - the pelham and the rest of the gagets may just be winding him up.

Get yourself a dressage type instructor - a good BHS/BD registered one and have lots of short (may 3/4 hour) lessons - as many as you can afford.  The pair of you need to find your bond.


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## Rambo (16 November 2006)

[ QUOTE ]
Has his feed changed substantially since you got him? Could this be making him fizzy? 

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point !

Of my two IDxTB's, the affable, trainable one couldn't take oats at all ! He turned into a psycho if you fed him them


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## SouthWestWhippet (16 November 2006)

Hi  

I had an IDxTB. He was a wonderful horse but did find him very strong and a bit spooky. He bolted with me a couple of times until I changed his bit to a kimberwick... then he was better

I found with him, because he was so solid and big, he really knew his own strength and would sometimes take advantage of me. And although I knew basically how to ride, I wasn't at all polished and didn't have a strong seat... I was used to riding mostly off the leg and the hand. It was fairly clear to me that he had been accustomed to being ridden by someone much more technically skilled than me who was able to be quicker and more subtle with him when he thought about being naughty. For me, I weigh only 8 stone and riding a huge solid IDxTB meant that I couldn't rely on strength/pulling on reins etc like I had done in the past with riding school horses. I had to learn to use my seat and be able to catch him before he started messing about. 

Looking back and knowing what I know now, he wasn't a difficult horse but he was a bit too much horse for me at the time. I wanted to share this experience because it sounds a bit like yours... although it sounds as if your horse is trickier than mine was - I'm not suggesting you aren't a good rider BTW - just that for me, I was overhorsed.  Good luck with him and if you do decide he isn't the horse for you, I hope you find your perfect companion soon.

J


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## BBs (16 November 2006)

ID are generally strong, but have good temperements, more placid than TB's, Arabs etc.  Having the x means that you have a horse with more substance, with a little bit more GO without the fineness and flightyness of the pure TB.

I have had 2 IDxTB, the Mare I had, Bally, she was awesome, very fast, quite strong, but took her mothers temp, i.e she was extremely spooky and sharp (more of a TB) but had manners to burn and would love cuddles.

Winston, my current is fab, I bought him wearing a gag, flash and martingale.  we took the lot off him and he was soft and easy to ride 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 the contraption actually made him stronger becuase he had something to tense against. I only hack and school him in a snaffle and caverson noseband.
However, he is built down hill, and when we are hunting and going xc i find him strong - not because he is stong, its because he end up on his forehand and pulls me down (which makes him appear strong).  I am trying to find a bit to bring him up off the forehand atm.  HOwever, he has a fab temperament, I wouldnt EVER sell him, hes a total delight to look after (even at 17h) hes a big lad, but lovely.
This isnt to say we havent had our problems, we didnt gel to start with and I fell off him a few times due to him stopping at SJs 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 but this has been resolved now 
	
	
		
		
	


	





Im really sorry to hear you arent having fun on your boy 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 how old is he? what had he done before you bought him? are you having help i.e. lesson? 

It might be that he needs a bit of schooling and have the boundaries marked out for him.  

What did he do to cause you to fall?

I wish you a speedy recovery.

vx


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## mirandaharry (16 November 2006)

Not very experienced myself, but just happened to notice you wrote that you keep him at home - is he by himself?  Probably nothing to do with it at all, but when I ended up with one of mine living by himself he turned into a complete nightmare!  Sure it's not that, but you never know!

Also found with mine that when I first bought them they were lovely, as they were completely shell shocked from moving, then after a couple of months they became horrible as they found their feet and tried it on to see what they could get away with!!!  Took quite some time for them to settle completely, again, maybe worth thinking about! 

Hope it works out for you, good luck! x


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## CLS. (16 November 2006)

My favourite boy is an ISH his sire was a mahoosive ID.  The ginger boy has a temperament to die for and is a joy to be around. Ridden he is very downhill and can be quite strong out hunting (we hunt in a gag).  For everything else he is in a snaffle with a flash.  He does have the most ENORMOUS tongue and didnt get on with a pelham AT ALL.  The gag is a very thin snaffle and his everday bit is a plain thin jointed snaffle that is slightly shaped (cant remember the make) with a fixed ring.  Id try getting his teeth done and going back to basics with his bit and take it from there.  What is he like when someonelse rides him?  Get an instructor to sit on him and see what they say.


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## Jadejods (16 November 2006)

Hello BBs, i have wrote about his past etc if you scroll back you will see.

I am 5 foot 11 inches (very Tall) and wiegh 14 stone, i am actually quite slim  but sound heavy because i am so tall! The horse is 16.1 and is quite heavily built so i dont think he should have a problem carrying me ? Do You?

His last owner came down 2 days ago and rode him, he looked in love with her, he rode like a dream and was doing his beautiful dressage moves.
I felt resentful to be honest, and angry with him for not being like this with me!


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## Rambo (16 November 2006)

[ QUOTE ]
His last owner came down 2 days ago and rode him, he looked in love with her, he rode like a dream and was doing his beautiful dressage moves.
I felt resentful to be honest, and angry with him for not being like this with me! 

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't mean to put you down, but do you think perhaps his previous owner is a more accomplished rider than you ? It's very hard when someone else hops on and seemingly makes your horse look like a different animal, but at least you know he can do it, and so you have something to work towards 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 Have plenty of lessons if you can...how about his previous owner, could she give you any pointers ?


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## Jadejods (16 November 2006)

Hi Rambo

Oh yes, i am sure she rides him much better than me, she has much more confidence .

He probably feels my anxiety?

I have been riding many years more than the last owner but i do have the weaker confidence out of the two of us.

I have never felt like this with any other horse i have ridden, only this one.

Odd really.


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## BBs (16 November 2006)

OOps I am sorry 
	
	
		
		
	


	





Right okay! well you are perfectly suited in stature, so dont worry about that! 

I think, you need to take it back, go back to basics - boring i know! with winston, when we didnt gel and he started stopping wtih me, we took him back to poles on the ground.  Ive been ridnig since i was 8 too, but 10 years younger than you.  I had to totally change my position and make my leg position more secure.  Winston is a big horse for me, Im only 5'7 - there is no way i could stop him with brute strength! so i hvae to find another way.  I use my body, back and seat to bring him back - although of course all this goes out the window when we are hunting! but now i feel i can control him happily eventing 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 although he still lands on his head 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 which isnt helpeful in combinations!

Personally, I wouldnt give up on this one.  I would take it slowly and get to know him - have more tuition. Speak to the old owner if you can 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 i know if Rachel who bought Bally needed help, I would help if i could.  He sounds like hes an experienced schoolmaster and is a perfect age.  Just unfortunate you havent gelled yet! it took me nearly 18 months to get a good tune out of winston!

Good luck
Vx


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## Jadejods (16 November 2006)

Thanks BBs thst makes me feel a little better to know it took you 18 months!

I was also thinking, when i was taught to ride, it was 1977, back then , you were taught to grip with your knees and hold the reins fairly short, also, back then, if a horse did not do as it was asked, you smacked it!!

All very different from today.

The last owner is younger than me and rides in a different style, she has loose knees, secure lower leg etc etc.

I would find it hard to change my riding style now, but i have only just realised that the horse will obviously be used to the last owners style!

There is a lot of changes to be made if i do keep him.

This fall i had 2 weeks ago was pretty serious, i was in hospital 2 days, i still cant get upstairs to bed yet!

This has hammered my confidence so i was thinking of buying a riding school plod for safety.

In an ideal world i would love to keep him.


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## Sparklet (16 November 2006)

To be honest Cocobay even a riding school horse will react to having short reins and being smacked everytime it misunderstands or ignores your request.  Gripping with your knees will not give you the security you need either and will just result in your lower leg moving away from the horses sides so you are unable to communicate with your lower leg.

Finding a good instructor and bringing your riding up to date is going to be necessary whichever route you choose.


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## Jadejods (16 November 2006)

Oh no Sparklet, i dont smack, i was just refering to the old days when i learned to ride.

I agree, i do need to find a good and patient instructor.


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## BBs (16 November 2006)

Yep! in 1977 I was born LMAO

I must admit, it was very odd changing my seat/leg position, but OMG am i more secure now!!!
Your knees must be soft and relaxed.

I had a bit of a traditional hunting seat before i went to college where i got up to my BHS stage 3. They changed my seat totally, and not for the better.  Before i rarely fell off, after they fiddled with me, i came off far easier.

TBH going back to basics and taking it slowly isnt really a big deal! your confidence would be shatted, mine was also when i broke my nose infront of Yogi! whilst i was having training with him 
	
	
		
		
	


	




I had some TFT (Jo Cooper) this really helped me 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 its helped a number of ppl from HHO. It may help you?
However, we need to get you well first!

ATM whats your horse doing? is there no possibilty that the old owner can have him back or ride him for you to keep him ticking over?

I would then seriously find yourself a GOOD instruction to help you.  Changing your postion NOW isnt gonna be a shock to the system! honestly lol you will be fine.  You just need someone to help you, give you confidence.  Where in the country are you? I might know someone who could help you 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 i.e. like a good BE accredited trainer to give you back your confidence


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## loopeepee (16 November 2006)

[ QUOTE ]
ID are generally strong, but have good temperements, more placid than TB's, Arabs etc.  Having the x means that you have a horse with more substance, with a little bit more GO without the fineness and flightyness of the pure TB.



[/ QUOTE ]

Well put BB's 
	
	
		
		
	


	




I have an IDxTB at the moment. Luckily, although he is an ignorant git, and will always want his own way, I am slowing (only had him 3 weeks) showing him that fighting isnt the way forward. He has a lovely ponyish TB face, but also a nice bit of bone, and he suits me down to the ground.
He is a fantastic hunter - although this is how he has picked up bad habits. I.e thinking that a downwards transition involves going hollow and evading the bit.
Therefore I have been doing tonnes (ie every time I ride him) of transitions. Walking on a circle and halting over X, walking again before halting at A. Im trying to make him listen to me rather than gawp at everything else! He has picked up quickly the walk to halt - just repetition, repetition! Trot to walk took a bit longer, but I found its better in sitting trot.
Also - and lots of people may say Im doing it too soon, but transitions between the paces - so a slower, more collected trot for a few strides before sending him on again. And it is working - he does listen . . eventually anyway!

As someone has also said (sorry can't remember who!), but he is VERY heavy down one rein - I don't know if you have this problem. I find that putting him on a half circle E to B and dropping the inside rein, whilst pushing his from inside leg (so left leg for me) to outside hand is beginning to solve this. He is very keen just to race forward rather than accept the leg, but this is more down to schooling than anything.

Canter is another matter - weak, long, strung out, just everything really. He was hunted all last season and therefore schooling did not happen at all. He speeds up round the corners as he finds it hard to hold himself up, and therefore is very hard on a circle! But as I have only just started cantering him, not alot can be expected, poor love!
He has done very smart 'stuff' before - and I know its there. He moves beautiful, and is quite elevated considering. He is very weak at the moment - not surprising as he has been turned away for a while - but he is gradually building up muscle. I have seen an improvment over this short period of time - even if its only little.

Thats just an insight into what I am having to do in order to improve mine - in actual fact I would be doing the same regardless of what breed I had. 

Keep him for a bit longer - it is there is him, you said he was looking great with the old owner a couple of week ago! Have lots of lessons, or just get someone to shout at you (I get my 13 yr old sister to hollar at me sometimes!) - they can see stuff from the ground which you often forget about doing!
Good luck, and let us know what happens!
L x


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## H's mum (16 November 2006)

[ QUOTE ]
 However, a good 'mix' doesn't necessarily make a good horse. That comes down to schooling, handling, conformation and temprament. I have had a couple of IDxTB's. One was a complete sh1t who had no respect for human life, the other was the most trainable and affable character you could ever wish for.



[/ QUOTE ] 
Couldn't agree with you more!  Also a good horse can turn sour pretty quickly if it thinks it's got the upper hand - or if it feels insecure - or for a number of other reasons - The horse can only pull against a pulling hand - sometimes you have to literally throw the reins at the horse in order for it to stop pulling - bitting up and stronger nosebands/martingales just give it more of a lever to pull against! 
	
	
		
		
	


	





I noted that the horse is kept at home? Is he alone?  Or is he in company - I know my mare absolutely freaked when I brought her home - didn't settle for a long time and changed into an excitable and temperamental mare (she's ID/TB) - We had to go right back to basics with her - and you can ask anyone on here what trials and tribulations we had (I was so close to selling her too) - It took time and patience and good schooling (with instructors who really understand what they are doing and why)  I'm not a novice rider - but she really took some getting to grips with - 

If you don't have facilities to work your horse at home (Ie a menage etc) then it may be better moving to a yard where you have help at hand?
Kate x


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## Jadejods (16 November 2006)

Hello Hs mum.

No he is not kept alone, i have an 18 month old cob as a companion.

I have took on board all the advice every one has given me and i think i will try and give it another shot and attempt to try and make this work with him.

I have to take responsibility for the problems i may be causing with the way i ride.

I need to build trust up between us, especially after the fall, not that he will remember , but it is very fresh in my mind.

Thaks to all of you.
I am pleased i joined this forum, very helpful.

xx


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## Sparklet (16 November 2006)

Good luck with it all Cocobay - keep us posted on how it is going


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## Jadejods (16 November 2006)

I certainly will, Thank you all.

Amanda x


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## Mithras (16 November 2006)

Its not really a breed as such, but a cross, and the quality depends on that of the crosses.  My previous horse was a 15.1 ID x TB, and she seemed to be one to inherit the worst qualities of both, as mentioned above.  I have never known such a clumsy horse, she used to stand on my feet regularly 3 times a week, and although a keen jumper, had a lot of knock downs.  She fell on the flat with me a couple of times too.  As mentioned, she had the strength of the ID and the sillieness of the TB.  I could stop her, but then I am really strong and never got run away with even when I used to work with racehorses.  I schooled her intensively for nearly 3 years and though she did improve, she never got rid of her inherent clumsieness for jumping.  She would revert to going on the forehand when even slightly excited and often would go disunited too - its not much to expect a horse to sort its own legs out!  She could also not learn from her mistakes, if she hit a low upright, you could jump her over it several more times and she would just hit it again and again in exactly the same way...

I sold her to a keen teenager not looking to jump so much.  I have heard so many good reports of ID x TB crosses and this was not at all a bad horse, just a frustrating one.  However it is a bit off-putting and my new horse is a Dutch warmblood, which I find more refined, intelligent and careful.


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## HBII (16 November 2006)

Hi Cocobay

Sorry to hear things arent going too well.

I own a ISH which I am assuming has a medly of TB and ID in her. Like yours she can lean, run on and go on the forehand. Would you consider some lessons with a more experienced instructor, I find IDxTB's very patient as I am still learning myself.

When S leans on me I have to kick her on and keep her between my hand and my leg to keep her up into the bridle.

What are you feeding your horse he may have too much energy, and/or could be calmed down to help your riding.

Just a few thoughts hope they help.

Hb


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## Clodagh (16 November 2006)

Sorry, haven't read all posts... 
	
	
		
		
	


	




...but I had a horse that was unstoppable and actually went better in rubber snaffle and cavesson. Sorry if you've been there, done it!
They are strong if they want to be, so do feel sorry for you, though. Good luck.


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## Happy Bird (16 November 2006)

I don't think your problems are relative to his breeding.  ID x TB is a pretty good cross although it would depend on the percentage of TB.  My mare is ID x TB - I love her to pieces - she is an absolute star.  She's a bit lazy (I prefer them like that) and she is a kind sweet person.

I would have lots and lots of lessons.  Don't do anything that will knock your confidence and build things up slowly going right back to basics if necessary.  Learn to bond with him and make time to get to know each other.

I would then put a cap on the amount of time you wish to invest - ie. 6 months - if not better by then, I hate to say it, but I would sell up and buyer a saner mount (I did just that !!)

Take care of yourself and good luck.


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## amandaco2 (16 November 2006)

TBxID are usually good all round competition horses
they are generally nice tempered horses and can do well in a variety of spheres.
i would say it sounds like maybe you would benefit from some lessons on your horse 
and check out the cause of his behavior(eg too little turn out, too much hard feed, painful back,tack teeth etc)
they can be strong but any horse can.
my TBxID is quite sharp to ride and handle but a total softy in the stable and good at dressage.she can jump 4ft no problems its just the rider lol being too wimpy!she does get upset about moving though!


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## VictoriaEDT (16 November 2006)

Cocobay

I have had my boy for 10 years although he is an irish cob and not an ID x TB ( I have just bought a 17.1 IDxTB though!). I battled with a similar problem and came to the conclusion that although the bad times were really bad, the good were amazing. Despite everyone tellling me to get rid. Now we know each other so so well and I am so glad I stuck at it.

Good luck!!


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