# 2 tb mares at slaughter house :-(



## ha903070 (2 December 2011)

Just reading (and got upset) on facebook, horse chit chat wall, 2 tb mares with foals at foot at the slaughter house in Huddersfield, west Yorkshire, to be slaughtered on Sunday.

Thankfully they have found last minute homes for both the foals but the mares arent safe.

So sad. Wish I could afford to save them. 

Its a lady called Joanne Arnold posting about them, at least she's found someone to sace the foals.


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## team barney (2 December 2011)

Very sad, and poor foals being weaned in such a fashion


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## honetpot (2 December 2011)

Unfortuately mares have been seen as a cheap way of making money. These poor animals have obviusly lost their worth and are no longer wanted. Better they go quickly now than someone buy them cheap and put them back in foal for the cycle to be continues.
 I am a bit of a cyber stalker  when buying and one animal I have seen for sale was a brood mare on a 'good stud' sold through Brightwells in foal for £400 in June and is now back for sale on one of the free websites, they are wanting £950, but there's not much a call for TB brood mares.


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## ha903070 (2 December 2011)

Its so sad though, what a life. Its just lucky that the foals are saved as what was the point of breeding them to send them to slaughter? Obviously dont know the circs of how they got there.

It makes me realise how lucky my two tb mares are, one was sold as a possible broodmare when we bought her, shes wonderful had her 5 years, the other we bought for £150 last year and is now 3, lightly backed, either of them could be at that slaughter house now.


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## bumblelion (2 December 2011)

It's so sad


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## Fii (2 December 2011)

But if the mares are booked in to be slaughtered, you cant just "save" them, not without the owners consent anyway! The slaughter house cant sell them on.
  Do you have a link to fb horse chit chat?


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## FionaM12 (2 December 2011)

honetpot said:



			Better they go quickly now than someone buy them cheap and put them back in foal for the cycle to be continued.
		
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This is a fair point. On the Dartmoor Hill Pony rescue thread, I told the tale of a foal I once knew who was "saved from the meat man" only to suffer dreadfully for the next couple of years due to the ignorance and domestic circumstances of his "rescuers". I hope these foals have been homed to good knowledgable homes and that if the the mares are saved they don't end up just producing more unwanted foals.


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## FionaM12 (2 December 2011)

ha903070 said:



			Its just lucky that the foals are saved
		
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Not always . See my post above.


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## ha903070 (2 December 2011)

https://www.facebook.com/?ref=tn_tnmn#!/horsechitchat

I dont know if this will work not good at links sorry, nor do I know anything about horses at slaughter houses but assume the lady posting on there has more knowledge than me.


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## rhino (2 December 2011)

Fii-ling Festive said:



			But if the mares are booked in to be slaughtered, you cant just "save" them, not without the owners consent anyway! The slaughter house cant sell them on.
  Do you have a link to fb horse chit chat?
		
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http://www.facebook.com/joanne.m.arnold?sk=wall


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## ha903070 (2 December 2011)

I hear what you are saying Fiona I'm just trying to be positive for them as not all people who rescue are ignorant and neglectful so hopefully these fillies will be well looked after.


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## cobmum (2 December 2011)

How do people know about the horses going for slaughter unless they have sent them themselves?


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## FionaM12 (2 December 2011)

Have you seen the state of them? Poor, poor, things.


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## cobmum (2 December 2011)

FionaM12 said:



			Have you seen the state of them? Poor, poor, things. 












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OMG!! Thats just horrid, why people dont PTS instead of starving horses i will never know!


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## FionaM12 (2 December 2011)

ha903070 said:



			I hear what you are saying Fiona I'm just trying to be positive for them as not all people who rescue are ignorant and neglectful so hopefully these fillies will be well looked after.
		
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I agree with that. It's just that rescuing isn't always for the best, sadly. Sometimes it can make the problem worse, as if money changes hands more are bred to sell next time. 

However, I'd be the first to rescue them all, if it was done responsibly. I'm _not_ saying these aren't by the way, as I know nothing about the circumstances.


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## ha903070 (2 December 2011)

I agree with you, no I dont know either about the rescue of them.

The poor poor mares just awful to see. So upsetting :-(


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## HBrae2 (2 December 2011)

I just don't understand how these things can happen, how can anyone let a horse get into that state : (
I don't have Facebook so don't have any details. Why breed from a horse that they can't support and then send them to slaughter, it's horrible  : (


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## rubydog (2 December 2011)

The above pictures look to me like they were taken in the car park at holmfirth horse sales, they make me want to cry, glad the foals are safe but feel so sorry for the mares, how could anyone let an animal get in to that state is beyond me and how can you buy the from the slaughter house?


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## Fools Motto (2 December 2011)

Sad, but sadly these things do happen.
After reading the chit-chat site, if the meat value for each mare is £450, then I doubt anyone would want or could have those mares. Maybe the foals will be lucky.

If that picture is genuine (and not implying it isn't) then I take it the foals are a matter of only days old?? (strange perhaps at this time of year??) Which leads me on to the fact that the picture posted 'looks' like it was from a few months ago - looking at leaves on the trees and the fact it is sunny! Could be wrong of course.


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## ha903070 (2 December 2011)

You're right it is Holmfirth, says under the pic on her facebook this mare was for sale at Holmfirth auction so this mare may not be the one at the slaughter house? And someone commented about it being summer.


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## ha903070 (3 December 2011)

On looking says these photos are from Sept 2010!


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## Fools Motto (3 December 2011)

ha903070 said:



			On looking says these photos are from Sept 2010!
		
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The plot thickens!


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## FionaM12 (3 December 2011)

ha903070 said:



			On looking says these photos are from Sept 2010!
		
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Just noticed that too! They are entitled "the poor horses at a local auction". Maybe the person regularly rescues from auction?


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## YorksG (3 December 2011)

The mares may be going for slaughter, but there is no licensed abbatoir in Huddersfield


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## FionaM12 (3 December 2011)

I've confused myself with those pictures now. Clearly different horses.

Note to self: Avoid posting late at night after three back-to-back 24 hour shifts. Wait till brain recovered from resulting exhaustion.

Speaking of which... 'night all.  *yawns*


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## Clippy (3 December 2011)

£450 meat price for a TB?


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## skint1 (3 December 2011)

So sad. Grateful to be able to hold on to our Tb mare til right circumstances found, hate to think of her ending like that.


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## SusannaF (3 December 2011)

YuletideG said:



			The mares may be going for slaughter, but there is no licensed abbatoir in Huddersfield
		
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Hmmmmmmmmmm.


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## hairycob (3 December 2011)

I'm probably barking up the wrong tree, but if you have 2 TD broodmares you don't want anymore that nobody wants to buy, posting on facebook about saving  them from the meat man might be an effective method - dertainly cheaper than pts or paying for advertising.


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## M_G (3 December 2011)

FionaM12 said:



			This is a fair point. On the Dartmoor Hill Pony rescue thread, I told the tale of a foal I once knew who was "saved from the meat man" only to suffer dreadfully for the next couple of years due to the ignorance and domestic circumstances of his "rescuers". I hope these foals have been homed to good knowledgable homes and that if the the mares are saved they don't end up just producing more unwanted foals.
		
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I say often on threads like this There IS a fate far WORSE than death & the rescue organisations/markets see it on a daily basis :-(


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## duggan (3 December 2011)

The horses were with the meat man. Weigh in value for the foals is negligible, selling them at 150 the pair probably covers what he paid for them plus mares, so he's covered and hook price for the mares will be in his pocket. 
Am glad the foals are getting another chance, and I hope they don't suffer from now on. But the cycle will go on, and buying them to save them just confirms to the meat dealers that a profit can be made in the business.


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## rhino (3 December 2011)

duggan said:



			The horses were with the meat man.
		
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But surely you can't buy from the 'meat man'. Makes a mockery of people trying to do the right thing for their old/injured horse or dangerous horses... They sell them for slaughter to _ensure_ their future...


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## Wagtail (3 December 2011)

rhino said:



			But surely you can't buy from the 'meat man'. Makes a mockery of people trying to do the right thing for their old/injured horse or dangerous horses... They sell them for slaughter to _ensure_ their future...
		
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Anyone sending to slaughter doesn't give a toss about their future. If they did, they would give them the dignity of being PTS at home rather than selling to the meat man. Animals can smell the blood at the slaughter house whilst they wait their turn. It's a cruel ending for any animal.


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## rhino (3 December 2011)

Wagtail said:



			Anyone sending to slaughter doesn't give a toss about their future. If they did, they would give them the dignity of being PTS at home rather than selling to the meat man. Animals can smell the blood at the slaughter house whilst they wait their turn. It's a cruel ending for any animal.
		
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Nonsense 

I'm not saying improvements couldn't be made but to say anyone sending an animal to slaughter 'doesn't give a toss' is simply not the case.


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## Wagtail (3 December 2011)

rhino said:



			Nonsense 

I'm not saying improvements couldn't be made but to say anyone sending an animal to slaughter 'doesn't give a toss' is simply not the case.
		
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We will have to agree to differ there.


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## CalllyH (3 December 2011)

Horse chit chat is awful, awful.


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## Zebedee (3 December 2011)

The Virgin Mary said:



			I say often on threads like this There IS a fate far WORSE than death & the rescue organisations/markets see it on a daily basis :-(
		
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Wagtail said:



			Anyone sending to slaughter doesn't give a toss about their future. If they did, they would give them the dignity of being PTS at home rather than selling to the meat man. Animals can smell the blood at the slaughter house whilst they wait their turn. It's a cruel ending for any animal.
		
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Sorry but that is rubbish. 



rhino said:



			Nonsense 

I'm not saying improvements couldn't be made but to say anyone sending an animal to slaughter 'doesn't give a toss' is simply not the case.
		
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Totally agree with Rhino. For those on a limited budget & without the facilities to bury the carcase the slaughter house provides a much needed service. Horses sent in privately are not sold on, & are not kept waiting either - that's why they have to be booked in, & many owners will choose to wait while the deed is done. It's a far better option than abandonment which is becoming far more common as the recession bites even harder. 
I've accompanied horses for friends & clients in the past, & never had one react in anyway out of the ordinary on arrival. Having said that I do prefer to take them to the kennels, but thats a personal choice & any humane method is better than the despair that neglected horses must feel.

I am also glad the at least the foals are being given a chance, & I wish them long & happy lives in caring homes.


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## TheMule (3 December 2011)

Wagtail said:



			Anyone sending to slaughter doesn't give a toss about their future. If they did, they would give them the dignity of being PTS at home rather than selling to the meat man. Animals can smell the blood at the slaughter house whilst they wait their turn. It's a cruel ending for any animal.
		
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Taking your own horse to slaughter, waiting with it whilst its done and giving it a quick, dignified end is just about the best thing for a lot of horses. Most owners dont send them to slaughter- low end dealers who are selling irresponsibly bred rubbish may sell them at market where someone may buy them to take to the slaughter house.

Turst me, having seen many horses go through Potters, not one has any idea what's coming- they stand happily munching their hay


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## Wagtail (3 December 2011)

The Archangel Zebedee said:



			Sorry but that is rubbish. 



Totally agree with Rhino. For those on a limited budget & without the facilities to bury the carcase the slaughter house provides a much needed service.
		
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Yeah they must really care what happens to the horse when they'd rather line their pockets with a few hundred from the meat man rather than fork out a hundred quid to have the horse dealt with at home by the local hunt. Many of the people who send horses to slaughter could even well afford to have them PTS by vet and cremated. They often have other 'useful' horses they can easily afford to take care of. They just choose to make a few quid instead. IMO if someone can't afford a dignified ending for a horse then they can't afford a horse in the first place. 




			Horses sent in privately are not sold on, & are not kept waiting either
		
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Then why are these mares due to be slaughtered 'on Sunday?'

]


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## Holly Hocks (3 December 2011)

Wagtail said:



			Anyone sending to slaughter doesn't give a toss about their future. If they did, they would give them the dignity of being PTS at home rather than selling to the meat man. Animals can smell the blood at the slaughter house whilst they wait their turn. It's a cruel ending for any animal.
		
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I do have to agree with Wagtail on this one. I think it's different if you take your horse yourself and wait while it's done (I still couldn't do that with one of mine though), but those who send them there and don't have any idea how it's done or see the horse through to the end - they're the ones that don't give a toss.


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## SamanthaUK (3 December 2011)

As much as I dislike the idea of horse slaughter, I can see both sides.
Wouldn't you rather they be put out of their misery instantly and painlessly? If they're no use to anyone then they could be sold cheap and misused or abused?

On the other hand, I love horses and I don't agree with horse slaughter. :l I think it is mean these tb's been bred and then sold to the meatman.
But thats life, and Even if everyone on horsemart tried to stop horseslaughter it would still happen. 

*Sending painless and peaceful vibes to the mares*


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## PapaFrita (3 December 2011)

Wagtail said:



			Then why are these mares due to be slaughtered 'on Sunday?'
		
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Do you have concrete evidence that this is the case? Some very valid points have been thrown up in this thread that cast significant doubts.


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## Cuffey (3 December 2011)

The title of this thread is incorrect

The horses are 'with the meat man'' ie a person who buys the unwanted at sales and transports to either Potters or Red Lion.

As I understand it the foals are safe--will go to new home tomorrow, the mares will go to abattoir as the asking price of £450 each is unreasonable.  Bottom end at York and other sales-- TBs go through at approx £250 each

Better than starving like the Antrim ponies!


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## pricklyflower (3 December 2011)

I don't think anyone can comment on what it's like for an animal to be destroyed at an abbatoir until you've actually been and witnessed it actually happen.


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## dunkley (3 December 2011)

"IMO if someone can't afford a dignified ending for a horse then they can't afford a horse in the first place." 

'dignified' really isn't the operative word - I think it's 'humane'.
To my mind, there is no more dignity in a huntsman's bullet, than a slaughterman's, the end is the same, quick and painless.  The only way to be certain that your horse is going to get the 'end' you want, is to take it to the slaughterhouse/kennels, and wait while the deed is done.  If, for some reason, you can't do it yourself, ask a friend.   As for "can't afford it" - there are many reasons why someone needs to recoup some money on a horse.  Who are we to judge - it is _their_ horse, _their_ decision, and _their_ business.  As long as the end is humane, what does it matter?

"Then why are these mares due to be slaughtered 'on Sunday?'"

I am guessing because they were bought at auction by someone who's business is buying cheap horses, and then taking them to slaughter for a profit.  That person is not at fault - if anyone is at fault, it is the owner who consigned them to the uncertain future of auction in the first place.  They still want some money, but can't, for whatever reason (guilt? ostrich syndrome? _distance to slaughterhouse_?) take the horse themself. I believe when individuals take their horse to slaughter they are given a time slot/appointment.  Larger 'business' lorry loads wait in large outside pens and get slaughtered at the end of the day.  I also believe equine slaughter houses have set days for horses, and other beasts are done on separate days.  Slaughtering days are not the same as auction days, which vary countrywide.

_If, indeed, this is the actual scenario, in THIS case_


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## Cuffey (3 December 2011)

rhino said:



			But surely you can't buy from the 'meat man'. Makes a mockery of people trying to do the right thing for their old/injured horse or dangerous horses... They sell them for slaughter to _ensure_ their future...
		
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It does seem to happen--remember the yard who sent 5 to Potters but they never got there and the country was searched for them as one in particular was dangerous to ride
Not sure I could find the thread on here.


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## dunkley (3 December 2011)

Cuffey said:



			It does seem to happen--remember the yard who sent 5 to Potters but they never got there and the country was searched for them as one in particular was dangerous to ride
Not sure I could find the thread on here.
		
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I think, sadly, there are unscrupulous 'meat men' in the same way as all other walks of life.  I have heard that several years ago, a horse was 'sent' to kennels, and ended up sold on, at auction, by a dishonest hunt servant.  If you need to 'send', as opposed to 'take', your horse to slaughter, use a recommended service, with a good reputation.


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## Pearlsasinger (3 December 2011)

dunkley said:



_If, indeed, this is the actual scenario, in THIS case_

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Which seems highly unlikely as
a) the accompanying photo was NOT taken recently 
b) the abbatoir near Huddersfield closed many years ago, when the EU regulations closed many small slaughterhouses
c)the two preceding points mean that it IMPOSSIBLE for what has been posted on fb to be true.

Some very emotive posting about a purely fictitious scenario IMO.


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## FionaM12 (3 December 2011)

SamanthaUK said:



			As much as I dislike the idea of horse slaughter, I can see both sides.
Wouldn't you rather they be put out of their misery instantly and painlessly? If they're no use to anyone then they could be sold cheap and misused or abused?

On the other hand, I love horses and I don't agree with horse slaughter. :l I think it is mean these tb's been bred and then sold to the meatman.
But thats life, and Even if everyone on horsemart tried to stop horseslaughter it would still happen. 

*Sending painless and peaceful vibes to the mares*
		
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Well put. The only thing I don't agree with is being "against horse slaughter". In the end, slaughter's just a word for killing (as is pts) and as long as there are unwanted horses or horses in pain, there will have to be ways of killing them.

As long as the horse is killed without fear or suffering, I don't think it matters to the horse whether its remains are buried at home or fed to the lions at the zoo. Like the idea of dignity, those are human concerns. 

IMO a better thing for people to campaign against is the over-breeding of horses and ponies in the first place.


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## thatsmygirl (3 December 2011)

I would offer a perm home to one off the mares if I could find out how 
if anybody knows please let me know


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## hayinamanger (3 December 2011)

I find it difficult to understand why people are so opposed to taking or sending a horse to a licenced slaughterhouse.  If a horse has no future, for whatever reason, surely a quick, painless end to it's life is preferable to being passed around or just left in a field and dying in extremis in the mud.

Owners who sign their horses out of the foodchain are significantly reducing the options of the horse's owner at the time when that horse needs to be pts.  A veterinary visit, administration of lethal injection and the subsequent collection and incineration, can run up to around £500.

A lot of owners are shocked to find out the cost, many cannot afford it, and plenty will leave the horse, hoping it will just die in it's sleep.  How can this be better?


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## Baggybreeches (3 December 2011)

Wagtail said:



			Anyone sending to slaughter doesn't give a toss about their future. If they did, they would give them the dignity of being PTS at home rather than selling to the meat man. Animals can smell the blood at the slaughter house whilst they wait their turn. It's a cruel ending for any animal.
		
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Nonsense. I have and always will TAKE my horses to an abbatoir. I also have enough respect to stay with them until the end.
What happens to a carcasses once dead is irrelevant.
At least there is nobody profiting from providing 'sanctuary' to animal that was unwanted or unhealthy.


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## hayinamanger (3 December 2011)

Totally agree with BB.  I have taken several and stayed with them all, they have no idea of what is to come and it's over instantly.


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## Fii (3 December 2011)

Wagtail said:



			Anyone sending to slaughter doesn't give a toss about their future. If they did, they would give them the dignity of being PTS at home rather than selling to the meat man. Animals can smell the blood at the slaughter house whilst they wait their turn. It's a cruel ending for any animal.
		
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Wagtail said:



			Yeah they must really care what happens to the horse when they'd rather line their pockets with a few hundred from the meat man rather than fork out a hundred quid to have the horse dealt with at home by the local hunt. Many of the people who send horses to slaughter could even well afford to have them PTS by vet and cremated. They often have other 'useful' horses they can easily afford to take care of. They just choose to make a few quid instead. IMO if someone can't afford a dignified ending for a horse then they can't afford a horse in the first place. 

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  So wagtail do you think all horse slaughter houses should be closed?
 if they are the cruel places you think they are? if so i really dont think you see the bigger picture here !
  It is all very well slatting the people that use these places, but if they werent there to be used,  british horses would be in a far worse state then they are now.


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## Wagtail (3 December 2011)

Fii-ling Festive said:



			So wagtail do you think all horse slaughter houses should be closed?
 if they are the cruel places you think they are? if so i really dont think you see the bigger picture here !
  It is all very well slatting the people that use these places, but if they werent there to be used,  british horses would be in a far worse state then they are now.
		
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No I don't. And I don't see any difference between slaughtering cows or pigs and slaughtering horses. Both are just as unpleasant and sometimes not immediately effective and humane. I just think that anyone who loves their horse would not send it there. It is far less stressful on the animal to PTS at home.

My point wasn't that slaughter houses should be closed, but that if an owner really gave a toss about their horse they would have it PTS at home.


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## pines of rome (3 December 2011)

My horses have and always would be pts at home in familiar surroundings, there is no way on earth that I would consider sending them away!


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## Spring Feather (3 December 2011)

pines of rome said:



			My horses have and always would be pts at home in familiar surroundings, there is no way on earth that I would consider sending them away!
		
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Me too.  I would never contemplate having any of my horses go through a slaughterhouse.  Mine are killed at home with their friends around them and me being with them till their last breath.  It's the least I can do for them for serving me well throughout their living years.


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## rhino (3 December 2011)

Spring Feather said:



			Me too.  I would never contemplate having any of my horses go through a slaughterhouse.  Mine are killed at home with their friends around them and me being with them till their last breath.  It's the least I can do for them for serving me well throughout their living years.
		
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I would do the same for any of mine. But these horses are NOT loved, NO-ONE obviously feels that they owe them this, so what is the solution?


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## lannerch (3 December 2011)

I think looking at the condition of the mares in question and the situation it is blatantly obvious the owner is not attached to them particularly as he bought them to send to the slaughter and probably nor was their previous owner hence they were being passed from pillar to post!


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## Spring Feather (3 December 2011)

rhino said:



			I would do the same for any of mine. But these horses are NOT loved, NO-ONE obviously feels that they owe them this, so what is the solution?
		
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I have nothing against slaughterhouses.  They serve a purpose as in this case where no-one loves them nor feels any debt to them.  Mind you, I don't love a lot of my horses either but I do feel I owe them as peaceful an ending as I can.  I do have experience of livestock slaughterhouses though and they aren't horrific like some people seem to think but taking my horses there just doesn't sit right with me I'm afraid.


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## Rosehip (3 December 2011)

As farmers, my family and I breed sheep to sell for slaughter, I dont particularly 'like' slaughterhouses/abatoirs, but at least it is quick, painless and (for the most part) local. I would have no qualms about going to a sale (Derby and Beeston are local to me) and buying the strag end foals/youngsters and old horses that would otherwise be bounced from place to place to take to an abatoir, if only to prevent them from going to unsuitable homes...however, I couldnt take one of my girls, they will always die at home


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## magic104 (3 December 2011)

Fii-ling Festive said:



			But if the mares are booked in to be slaughtered, you cant just "save" them, not without the owners consent anyway! The slaughter house cant sell them on.
  Do you have a link to fb horse chit chat?
		
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That is correct which is why some years ago when someone was delivery calfs to the slaughter house & noticed a very heavy in-foal mare she had to be returned once the foal was weaned.  The group of TB mares came from a well known stud, the person concerned persuaded the guy to let him take the mare, but it was on the understanding that she be returned once the foal was weaned.  3wks or so later she foaled a colt, who was never able to have full papers but went on to be a sucessful showjumper.  His dam sadly went back to the slaughter house.  The fact is 1000's are going & better that then some miserable existance in some field with some numpty owner, who knows bugger all.  My own mare was meant to have been despatched, but as it was the knackerman not the slaughter house he was able to sell her on.  There was a bit of symphathy in buying her, but she has done us proud & my daughter cant wait to have her back under saddle (currently in-foal).


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## merlin12 (3 December 2011)

Why would any one put a mare in foal ,when there are so many unwanted horses around.


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## ha903070 (3 December 2011)

Didnt mean to cause such debate when i posted this was just feeling sorry for the horses involved.

Can i just clarify that someone else has put the photos on -  they are NOT on the facebook page as the mares at the slaughter house / meat man (hence them being over a year old and not linked to this post on facebook) and I only put info on here what was on the facebook post from the person posting on there.

No reason to think this is untrue.

Was just trying to help the mares I didnt know it was such a big problem to try help them, sorry all.


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## YorksG (3 December 2011)

Then what was the point of linking the post and the pictures? Where are these mares, in Huddersfield or elsewhere? If they have been bought by the dealer I assume people mean, to take to the abbatoir, then I am sure they will have acceptable care until their despatch.


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## FionaM12 (3 December 2011)

It was me who posted the photos, sorry. I followed a link to a fb profile which someone posted here and saw the photos on there. They were entiltled "The poor horses at a local auction" and I thought she was talking about the mares. On closer inspection I later realised they were different horses (ie another mare & foal, last year) but it was too late to remove the pics.

Sorry again for the confusion I caused. As I said earlier, the result of extreme tiredness on my part.


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## FionaM12 (3 December 2011)

CalllyH said:



			Horse chit chat is awful, awful.
		
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This is true. I have seen some utterly bizarre stuff and extreme ignorance on there and generally avoid it.


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## ha903070 (3 December 2011)

Goodness its so b***tchy on here, dont think I will bother again.

As i said above i was trying to help the mares by bringing their plight to the fore, no i dont have all the full details the person advertising on facebook does, hence the link to it.

***ends useage of the forums***


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## FionaM12 (3 December 2011)

ha903070 said:



			Goodness its so b***tchy on here, dont think I will bother again.

***ends useage of the forums***
		
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I personally don't find it "bitchy", just outspoken and yes, some people can be rather harsh. I didn't think this thread was harsh tbh though.

I do find you have to be quite thick-skinned on any forum, as people are more direct typing words on a keyboard than face-to-face. I think it's a shame to not use the forum again as it can be a valuable resource. But if it's not for you, fair enough.


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## flyingfeet (3 December 2011)

I've read the majority of this thread 

I just wanted to add that I think there are a lot of middle men referred to as "the meat man". Where you can indeed 'save' a horse from slaughter. Over 20 years ago we bought our first horse this way, collected by a lower end dealer and would end up at the slaughter house if not bought first. However they are not the slaughter houses themselves, but simply dealers. 

In this case I think its a good thing the foals have been given another chance, but think its a shame about the mares, but if there are old and have not done much, it may well be a kinder fate.

My riding horses I am soppy about and they will be dealt with at home, I have also sent one to slaughter, which was a yearling on a punt by me, but with a wonky leg that was lame by 3. He went to potters, but I booked him in direct rather than take him as it was £50 to collect which is less than my diesel and this was all about cash. Sadly I only got just over £200 for prime 3 year old pure bred hanoverian!! 

Now I have faith that the end at Potters is no worse then many other ends a horse could meet, and I watched a pony going through the process there on you tube and frankly it looked better than the injection method I witnessed at our equestrian vets. 

I think waste is bad and if you can offer a horse a good home that is great, but if I was ever in a dire financial position I'd rather my oldies went to the slaughter house than ended up with a dubious future.


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## Holly Hocks (3 December 2011)

elderlycoupleindevon said:



			Owners who sign their horses out of the foodchain are significantly reducing the options of the horse's owner at the time when that horse needs to be pts.  A veterinary visit, administration of lethal injection and the subsequent collection and incineration, can run up to around £500.
		
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People who keep their horses in the food chain are also severely limiting medication that animal can receive - there are certain drugs that cannot be administered ever, if a horse is not signed out of the food chain.  When I recently took my horse to hospital, I had to sign her out of the food chain there and then so that they had the freedom to administer any drugs which were needed.


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## magic104 (4 December 2011)

If they go to the abbatoir they should not be sold on, if the meat man buys them then he can sell them on & it happens quiet often (I have one such animal).  It might be that they advertise them while waiting to fill a lorry.  They offer a good service & surely it has to beat the state that the chestnut mare is in.


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## SamanthaUK (4 December 2011)

I didnt know you could stay with them till the end.
What happens? Do they get shot? Or PTS by injection?x


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## TheMule (4 December 2011)

SamanthaUK said:



			I didnt know you could stay with them till the end.
What happens? Do they get shot? Or PTS by injection?x
		
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They are shot. The majority of privately owned horses get driven in, booked in and then unloaded and taken straight in to be shot- they come off the lorry and within 1 minute are quietly dispatched. Potters encourage owners to hold them if they feel they can- then the horse is with a familiar person and doesn't fret.
Horses which come in from dealers are put in pens with a nice straw bed and hay/water and killed later on in the day- the slaughterman goes and gets them very quietly and kindly.

I adore my horses but have to go to Potters quite regularly for scientific studies and I am always struck by how considerate the slaughtermen are and how quickly and professionally the whole thing is done.


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## SamanthaUK (4 December 2011)

TheMule said:



			They are shot. The majority of privately owned horses get driven in, booked in and then unloaded and taken straight in to be shot- they come off the lorry and within 1 minute are quietly dispatched. Potters encourage owners to hold them if they feel they can- then the horse is with a familiar person and doesn't fret.
Horses which come in from dealers are put in pens with a nice straw bed and hay/water and killed later on in the day- the slaughterman goes and gets them very quietly and kindly.

I adore my horses but have to go to Potters quite regularly for scientific studies and I am always struck by how considerate the slaughtermen are and how quickly and professionally the whole thing is done.
		
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Oh so it's very quick and painless? I don't understand how you could stay with your horse as it's been shot. It would just fall over? Are you holding it or stood by it?x


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## TheMule (4 December 2011)

SamanthaUK said:



			Oh so it's very quick and painless? I don't understand how you could stay with your horse as it's been shot. It would just fall over? Are you holding it or stood by it?x
		
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The gun is held right up to the forehead so you can just stand in front/ slightly to the side and yes, the horse just falls onto its side. Dies instantly


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## FionaM12 (4 December 2011)

TheMule said:



			They are shot. The majority of privately owned horses get driven in, booked in and then unloaded and taken straight in to be shot- they come off the lorry and within 1 minute are quietly dispatched. Potters encourage owners to hold them if they feel they can- then the horse is with a familiar person and doesn't fret.
Horses which come in from dealers are put in pens with a nice straw bed and hay/water and killed later on in the day- the slaughterman goes and gets them very quietly and kindly.

I adore my horses but have to go to Potters quite regularly for scientific studies and I am always struck by how considerate the slaughtermen are and how quickly and professionally the whole thing is done.
		
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TheMule said:



			The gun is held right up to the forehead so you can just stand in front/ slightly to the side and yes, the horse just falls onto its side. Dies instantly
		
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Thankyou for this. It makes very hard reading, but is actually quite reassuring. These events are facts of life and the idea that it's done with care and sensitivity is good to know.


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## indie999 (4 December 2011)

I am going to make sure I am with mine ie hold it or be there as I know he will be suspicious of any stranger and would hate him to fret(and am determined my human emotion doesnt pass on to him). However that said some people have a good way with animals and I know our local hunt who regularly PTS/captive bolt are absolutely brilliant and kind to the horses they deal with. This is why its a shame a lot of the small abbattoirs were abolished with foot and mouth etc ie less animals less stress etc , more personal efficient service.  

Sort of think its my duty and last thing I can do for him but Potters sound very professional set up. Would rather a horse be PTS than passed around. Get fed up reading adverts when the mare has bred tons of foals etc then she is for sale!! Poor thing.


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## Kenzo (4 December 2011)

Far better these horses are sent to slaughter than left in a field starving, cold with an unweaned foal dragging them down further, left to suffer and die, then dumped in a ditch somewhere, because that is exactly what would happen in the hands of some of the dealers n travelers that are getting rid of them, they won't pay for some nice vet to come out and have them pts!, least they have the small about of common sense or dignity or just simply admitting that they can't afford to keep them...call it defeat, to send them for slaughtering, its a sad state of affairs yes but its an end to more neglect, good on them I say for making a least one wise decision!


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## hayinamanger (4 December 2011)

Holly Hocks said:



			People who keep their horses in the food chain are also severely limiting medication that animal can receive - there are certain drugs that cannot be administered ever, if a horse is not signed out of the food chain.  When I recently took my horse to hospital, I had to sign her out of the food chain there and then so that they had the freedom to administer any drugs which were needed.
		
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I completely understand that, I am not saying that I would withhold veterinary treatment.  Owners have the option to leave that part of the passport unsigned until such an occasion arises.


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## SamanthaUK (4 December 2011)

indie999 said:



			I am going to make sure I am with mine ie hold it or be there as I know he will be suspicious of any stranger and would hate him to fret(and am determined my human emotion doesnt pass on to him). However that said some people have a good way with animals and I know our local hunt who regularly PTS/captive bolt are absolutely brilliant and kind to the horses they deal with. This is why its a shame a lot of the small abbattoirs were abolished with foot and mouth etc ie less animals less stress etc , more personal efficient service.  

Sort of think its my duty and last thing I can do for him but Potters sound very professional set up. Would rather a horse be PTS than passed around. Get fed up reading adverts when the mare has bred tons of foals etc then she is for sale!! Poor thing.
		
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I've just read up on Potters Abbatoir and they had an undercover welfare officer go look at it. They said it was awful. The horses were all together, biting each others necks, eyes wild, ears back. They must have known what was coming. The shots were ringing out constantly and the horses were freaking out.
When she said she was a racehorse breeder and was bringing her horse there she was taken to the actual 'killing room' and 'gutting facility'.
The horses were stood in a small metal room. A rifle held up to it's forehead and then shot. After that their bodies are just chucked down. Their hindlegs get tied up and they're hauled up into the air where they're gutted. Then they're let down roughly and pushed into a waiting trailer to be sent off to the butcher to get the cuts of meat.
The woman said she was physically sick after seeing it.
Not only this but pregnant mares were killed, then cut open and the unborn foals (even if alive) were shot and instantly killed.
And foals at foot were also taken to be killed, Seperate to their mothers.

The site even has some 'secret videos' of the slaughter. Although I couldn't bring myself to watch them.

Mixed opinions now..


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## scrunchie (4 December 2011)

SamanthaUK said:



			I've just read up on Potters Abbatoir and they had an undercover welfare officer go look at it. They said it was awful. The horses were all together, biting each others necks, eyes wild, ears back. They must have known what was coming. The shots were ringing out constantly and the horses were freaking out.
When she said she was a racehorse breeder and was bringing her horse there she was taken to the actual 'killing room' and 'gutting facility'.
The horses were stood in a small metal room. A rifle held up to it's forehead and then shot. After that their bodies are just chucked down. Their hindlegs get tied up and they're hauled up into the air where they're gutted. Then they're let down roughly and pushed into a waiting trailer to be sent off to the butcher to get the cuts of meat.
The woman said she was physically sick after seeing it.
Not only this but pregnant mares were killed, then cut open and the unborn foals (even if alive) were shot and instantly killed.
And foals at foot were also taken to be killed, Seperate to their mothers.

The site even has some 'secret videos' of the slaughter. Although I couldn't bring myself to watch them.

Mixed opinions now..
		
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Have you got a link for this report?

I thought they had to use boltguns not rifles.


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## SamanthaUK (4 December 2011)

scrunchie said:



			Have you got a link for this report?

I thought they had to use boltguns not rifles.
		
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http://www.animalaid.org.uk/h/n/NEWS/pr_horse/ALL/1662//

And no, It's a rifle.


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## pricklyflower (4 December 2011)

SamanthaUK, Animal Aid are notorious for reporting facts and figures incorrectly for their own agenda.s I'd be more inclined to listen to TheMule who has seen and visited Potters for her studies rather than read what I can only describe as propoganda on the Animal Aid website.


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## stacie21 (4 December 2011)

i was under the impression once animals enter the slaughter house there is only one way out they dont just let them in then someone go pick them up it is very sad and not nice at all but it is not uncomon


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## TheMule (4 December 2011)

SamanthaUK said:



			I've just read up on Potters Abbatoir and they had an undercover welfare officer go look at it. They said it was awful. The horses were all together, biting each others necks, eyes wild, ears back. They must have known what was coming. The shots were ringing out constantly and the horses were freaking out.
When she said she was a racehorse breeder and was bringing her horse there she was taken to the actual 'killing room' and 'gutting facility'.
The horses were stood in a small metal room. A rifle held up to it's forehead and then shot. After that their bodies are just chucked down. Their hindlegs get tied up and they're hauled up into the air where they're gutted. Then they're let down roughly and pushed into a waiting trailer to be sent off to the butcher to get the cuts of meat.
The woman said she was physically sick after seeing it.
Not only this but pregnant mares were killed, then cut open and the unborn foals (even if alive) were shot and instantly killed.
And foals at foot were also taken to be killed, Seperate to their mothers.

The site even has some 'secret videos' of the slaughter. Although I couldn't bring myself to watch them.

Mixed opinions now..
		
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Complete made up rot!

The horses are not all in together- some are in small pens of 1 or 2, there are some larger pens which sometime have 5 or 6 in and then there's a field where the moor ponies go. There is no stress, no panic and everything is very settled- I've been there at least 20 times and I've never heard so much as a whinny. The shots are actually very quiet- you wouldnt notice unless you were in there- theyre not loud sudden shot gun shots, theyre dulled noises

Once theyre dead (note they're dead now) they fall to the floor (get chucked down?!) they get chained around the hind pasterns and winched up and across to be bled- they are stuck with a knife and bled into tubs which are collected and spun down for the antibodies which get used in human medicine. After they've been bled they have the head cut off and then they get winched across and layed out to have the limbs cut off, to be skinned and finally butchered. I don't know how else you'd expect them to be processed for meat?!

If you're worried, go and see it for yourself


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## SamanthaUK (4 December 2011)

pricklyflower said:



			SamanthaUK, Animal Aid are notorious for reporting facts and figures incorrectly for their own agenda.s I'd be more inclined to listen to TheMule who has seen and visited Potters for her studies rather than read what I can only describe as propoganda on the Animal Aid website.
		
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Please, Call me Sammy .
I wouldn't know i've never heard of them. When I read this report though I felt awful. Brought tears to my eyes.


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## YorksG (4 December 2011)

What did you think happened to the carcass? The animal is dead when it hits the floor, it must then be moved, can't think of any other way than dragging by the hind legs with chains tbh. Of course it is gutted and skinned, just like any other carcass. The bit about unborn foals, well it sounds as if they do the best they can for them, instant death. How do you think they move the horses pts at home? They are winched onto a lorry, with chains round the back legs. If you do not want to think about any horse dieing, then please do not enter into horse ownership. 
I would much rather see the 'bin end' horses collected up by the dealers who take them for meat, than 'rescued' by people who have little or no idea of the reality of horse ownership.


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## scrunchie (4 December 2011)

pricklyflower said:



			SamanthaUK, Animal Aid are notorious for reporting facts and figures incorrectly for their own agenda.s I'd be more inclined to listen to TheMule who has seen and visited Potters for her studies rather than read what I can only describe as propoganda on the Animal Aid website.
		
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^ this

Actually, I'm pretty dubious of most animal charities. They all seem to employ shock tactics to gain donations.


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## FionaM12 (4 December 2011)

I watched the film on AnimalAid's site. It shows a grey pony trotting in, ears pricked. Same pony standing in a pen, looking round. Then an emotive bit of text saying this was once a child's pet, now discarded.  Then it's in a room with two men, then shot, dies instantly. The rest is about what happens to its remains, which I don't care about.

Unless I've missed something, where's the abuse?


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## SamanthaUK (4 December 2011)

I just wrote what I read. I've never seen it myself. Nor would I like too.


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## MotherOfChickens (4 December 2011)

SamanthaUK said:



			When she said she was a racehorse breeder and was bringing her horse there she was taken to the actual 'killing room' and 'gutting facility'.
		
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what does it matter what the room is called? would it be better to call it shortcut to rainbow bridge?



SamanthaUK said:



			The horses were stood in a small metal room. A rifle held up to it's forehead and then shot. After that their bodies are just chucked down. Their hindlegs get tied up and they're hauled up into the air where they're gutted. Then they're let down roughly and pushed into a waiting trailer to be sent off to the butcher to get the cuts of meat.
		
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what does it matter how the meat is treated after the horse has been shot?




SamanthaUK said:



			Not only this but pregnant mares were killed, then cut open and the unborn foals (even if alive) were shot and instantly killed.
		
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surely instantly killed is good? what else are they supposed to do?
[/QUOTE]

as for foals being killed seperately to their mothers-surely that is better than mare or foal being killed in front of each other?


mine will meet their end with me, hopefully at home. I am lucky, I can afford to and have money put aside for it. abbatoirs fulfill an important role. the likes of Animal Aid are anti-domestic animals and anti-breeding, anti-animals for sport or leisure or food.


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## SamanthaUK (4 December 2011)

TheMule said:



			Complete made up rot!

The horses are not all in together- some are in small pens of 1 or 2, there are some larger pens which sometime have 5 or 6 in and then there's a field where the moor ponies go. There is no stress, no panic and everything is very settled- I've been there at least 20 times and I've never heard so much as a whinny. The shots are actually very quiet- you wouldnt notice unless you were in there- theyre not loud sudden shot gun shots, theyre dulled noises

Once theyre dead (note they're dead now) they fall to the floor (get chucked down?!) they get chained around the hind pasterns and winched up and across to be bled- they are stuck with a knife and bled into tubs which are collected and spun down for the antibodies which get used in human medicine. After they've been bled they have the head cut off and then they get winched across and layed out to have the limbs cut off, to be skinned and finally butchered. I don't know how else you'd expect them to be processed for meat?!

If you're worried, go and see it for yourself
		
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I only wrote what I read?!! I haven't seen it for myself like I said!!


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## Rosehip (4 December 2011)

All abatoirs and slaughterhouses are regulated, inspected and attended by vets, what you (meaning everyone;people;the general public) are reading on 'anti-slaughter' sites is basically propaganda, the emotive words are used to 'guilt' the reader into thinking that to kill an animal is always wrong. 
In the report mentioned above, there are 2 injured horses - would the writer preferr they were left in a stable or field to suffer more? The 'childs ponies' and 'riding school cobs' mentioned...should they be turned out or dumped and left to fend for themselves?

There are many things worse than a quick, well placed bullet, you only have to look at the real rescue centres to see that.


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## FionaM12 (4 December 2011)

SamanthaUK said:



			I only wrote what I read?!! I haven't seen it for myself like I said!!
		
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Calm down Sammy, no-one's having a go at you.  They're just telling you the other side of the story. AnimalAid's stuff is notoriously unbalanced, no-one's blaming you.


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## SamanthaUK (4 December 2011)

FionaM12 said:



			Calm down Sammy, no-one's having a go at you.  They're just telling you the other side of the story. AnimalAid's stuff is notoriously unbalanced, no-one's blaming you. 

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I know, but people are posting saying 'How would you expect them to be killed? Instantly or with their mothers?' I only wrote what I read. I haven't got an opinion on it.


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## indie999 (4 December 2011)

Farmer relative says if we knew what happened in the meat industry we would never eat meat. I do sign all the petitions etc re live export of any animal etc. 

Unfortunatly humans are blooming cruel but out of sight out of mind.

I know our local butcher had an abbatoir at the back but when foot and mouth came it was closed. I dont remember hearing guns etc You could see the back yard was clean and I never saw any thing untoward. Friends used this butcher for their sheep and only sent a few at a time so as not to stress them out. 

At the end of the day if you have any animal you should be responsible for it. So did passports really ever work??? Still dumped horses etc etc


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## FionaM12 (4 December 2011)

SamanthaUK said:



			I know, but people are posting saying 'How would you expect them to be killed? Instantly or with their mothers?' I only wrote what I read. I haven't got an opinion on it.
		
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People type fast, and as I've said before they're more direct than they would be face to face. It's not personal, no-one means to be rude. 

Off to feed my hungry girl now. Hang on in there Sammy and plase don't take things quite so personally!


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## SamanthaUK (4 December 2011)

FionaM12 said:



			People type fast, and as I've said before they're more direct than they would be face to face. It's not personal, no-one means to be rude. 

Off to feed my hungry girl now. Hang on in there Sammy and plase don't take things quite so personally! 

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hahaa ok :') give her a kiss from moi


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## FionaM12 (4 December 2011)

indie999 said:



			Farmer relative says if we knew what happened in the meat industry we would never eat meat. I do sign all the petitions etc re live export of any animal etc.
		
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One of the resons I rarely do eat meat. I've an open mind though about what happens to horses, I think the only safe thing to do is be with your own to the end, whether it goes. I'm utterly against live export too.

I just couldn't see the evidence of abuse in AnimalAid's film. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen, sadly.


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## FionaM12 (4 December 2011)

SamanthaUK said:



			hahaa ok :') give her a kiss from moi 

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I will. And a peppermint.


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## Merry Crisis (4 December 2011)

I have taken a mare to Potters, she was booked in, vet checked her passport and my husbund took her in and she was shot with a rifle, it was quick and she knew nothing about it. Unfortunately I can never get over it, I would never put myself through that again. The worst bit was loading her, knowing her fate, on the journey there I was a mess, never again. That is just my feeling about the fact that it is calculated, planned. Ever since my loved and cherished horses have been PTS at home and sod the cost. The husbund is history too!


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## hayinamanger (4 December 2011)

I have been in the queue many times, it is always quiet and calm.  Sure, you can hear the shots, the horses outside are not freaking out, they are quiet, having no idea what is about to happen.  You take them in, the slaughterman is brilliant, you give your horse a carrot, talk to him, and it's over in a few seconds.  Efficient, no cruelty.

Of course it's sad, you cry a lot, just as you do when you have them pts at home.  But you know that you have done the right thing for your horse.


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## FionaM12 (4 December 2011)

Merry Crisis said:



			The husbund is history too!
		
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Presumably he didn't go to Potters though?


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## Slave2Magic (4 December 2011)

This would be the same 2 thoroughbred mares that are advertised on Preloved for £500 each? Its a new advert so they are not with the meatman.


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## FionaM12 (4 December 2011)

Slave2Magic said:



			This would be the same 2 thoroughbred mares that are advertised on Preloved for £500 each? Its a new advert so they are not with the meatman.
		
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Really? How do you know they're the same? Something very fishy going on then. Or someone bought them and is selling on perhaps?


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## Holly Hocks (4 December 2011)

Merry Crisis said:



			Ever since my loved and cherished horses have been PTS at home and sod the cost.
		
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Exactly how I feel.  I always make sure I have a few hundred pounds aside should the need ever arise.  I don't want that final decision to be influenced by money.

As for the article that SamanthaUK is talking about, it was a Guardian article I think from 2006 and referred mainly to Turners abbatoir in Cheshire, not Potters.
I think this is the article she is referring to. 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2006/oct/01/horseracing.sport


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## rhino (4 December 2011)

FionaM12 said:



			Really? How do you know they're the same? Something very fishy going on then. Or someone bought them and is selling on perhaps?
		
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I think this is the advert she is meaning.


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## Slave2Magic (4 December 2011)

rhino said:



			I think this is the advert she is meaning.
		
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Yes thats the one. Same breed, just weaned foals and same place. Sounds like the same ones.


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## rhino (4 December 2011)

Slave2Magic said:



			Yes thats the one. Same breed, just weaned foals and same place. Sounds like the same ones.
		
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Yes, and the girl who originally posted on facebook has admitted that the horses are not at a slaughterhouse (as we figured anyway) but with a dealer who wants the money for them or he will send them to slaughter. 

So, theoretically not any different from any bottom end dealer who wants to make his/her money back after buying at auction by selling privately or to Turners/Potters.


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