# Best advice for thin/bruised soles?



## lisan (8 December 2010)

We have had gel pads on, but with all the wet weather, then the hard ground she has gone lame, had the farrier out today who has done a fab job and put 'plaster casts' on both fronts and nailed the shoes to them.

But her soles are really thin and very soft and wondered if iodine was the best thing for hardening them?


----------



## amandap (8 December 2010)

I would say you need to enable her to grow thick strong soles. Putting any lotion or potion on wont help I'm afraid. I would give the usual barefoot advice, address her diet, management and look at a period barefoot with good hoof protection until her feet begin to strengthen and a proper thick sole grows.
 Strong hooves are grown they can't be made overnight sadly.


----------



## mrussell (8 December 2010)

Those Equicasts are brill... although they can be slippery if your horse is prone to being a dillon in the paddock !!

No advice sorry - my old boys feet improved using Cytek shoes because they aggravate the sole and it grows thicker... but Cyteks are only as good as the farrier who fits them...and they are few and far between.


----------



## Amymay (8 December 2010)

I found that gel pads worked brilliantly through the summer - but once the weather and ground became wet they had to be taken off, due to the soles becoming soft and porous (exacerbated by lack of air and too much moisture because of the pads).

They resolved very quickly once the pads were taken off, and the sole hardened naturally.

I certainly wouldn't advocate taking a horse with thin soles barefoot.


----------



## millitiger (8 December 2010)

Does keretex hoof hardener have any effect?

I find it works really well on sensitive soles.


----------



## ticobay831 (8 December 2010)

you could try feeding sea weed and brushing some eucalyptus oil on his soles, its a great hardener


----------



## lisan (8 December 2010)

Thanks for the advice guys.

I have some Keretex, will start that from tonight.

She cannot go barefoot, she physically cannot cope at all without shoes!  I always have to carry a hoof boot with a nappy in it incase she every loses a shoe!

Last time we had the gel pads off they did harden up, but she was getting very footy August time so I had them put back on.

will have a look at the Cytek ones


----------



## bensababy (8 December 2010)

My boy also has abnormally thin soles and very soft - i swear by Keratex hoof hardener - has worked wonders on his feet.


----------



## Christmas Crumpet (8 December 2010)

Vet told me last year that deep shavings beds for horses with soft, squidgy soles, tons of Keratex on the sole AND the frog despite what it says on the bottle!!

If the ground is very wet then don't turn out - you want the soles to be really dry. Took my TB about 4 weeks to get tougher, stronger soles and they were never a problem again.


----------



## bensababy (8 December 2010)

carolineb said:



			Vet told me last year that deep shavings beds for horses with soft, squidgy soles, tons of Keratex on the sole AND the frog despite what it says on the bottle!!

If the ground is very wet then don't turn out - you want the soles to be really dry. Took my TB about 4 weeks to get tougher, stronger soles and they were never a problem again.
		
Click to expand...

echo this and i also invested in some Gmac boots for him as shoeing is a issue. I swear by these boots.


----------



## mrdarcy (8 December 2010)

lisan said:



			She cannot go barefoot, she physically cannot cope at all without shoes!  I always have to carry a hoof boot with a nappy in it incase she every loses a shoe!
		
Click to expand...

Lol - if I had a quid for every time someone said that to me! I'm a barefoot trimmer btw! I've yet to take the shoes off a horse who couldn't cope and many of those the owners had said to me before hand that their horse was crippled if they lost just one shoe. Every owner was amazed when I took all four shoes off and their horse was just fine!

Thin soles are down to two things - an unsuitable diet and lack of stimulation. Both things combine to produce a weak foot structure, where the pedal bone sits low in the foot and the sole is thin. Tender soles can also be due to inflammation in the solar corium - which is down to a diet too high in sugar/starch.

So my first bit of advice would be to look at her diet - cut out any feeds containing molasses. Secondly the only way to improve foot structure is to go barefoot - get that stimulation going which promotes growth, the sole will thicken up and in the long term you will have healthier hooves and a healthier horse. In the transition phase use hoof boots to work her on surfaces that are challenging. It'll work wonders I promise.

I should add that one of the people who trained me to trim was a former Cytek farrier - needless to say he has seen far better results with all his client's horses now they are barefoot compared to when they had Cytek shoes on.


----------



## LucyPriory (8 December 2010)

If you have a horse with thin soles and you:

don't want to get advice from a reputable hoof care professional who has experience of transforming them

don't want to make the changes needed to grow a healthy foot

aren't prepared to work your horse sufficiently and appropriately

aren't prepared to recognise that bad management is largely responsible for thin soles

aren't prepared to put your horse first and use boots if and when required 

Then don't go barefoot

However if you are prepared to accept that thin soles are not inevitable and with the right care can be made thick and beautiful, then I highly recommend the barefoot approach.


----------



## Oberon (8 December 2010)

lisan said:



			Thanks for the advice guys.

I have some Keretex, will start that from tonight.

She cannot go barefoot, she physically cannot cope at all without shoes!  I always have to carry a hoof boot with a nappy in it incase she every loses a shoe!

Last time we had the gel pads off they did harden up, but she was getting very footy August time so I had them put back on.

will have a look at the Cytek ones
		
Click to expand...

Have you ever wondered why she has such thin soles? And why she is so very lame when she loses a shoe?


----------



## mrussell (8 December 2010)

uh-oh !! the barefoot vultures are circling !!

Look, one size does NOT fit all...  I have experience of both barefoot and traditional shoes.

OP, you know your horse.  Take advice from your vet, take advice from all around you but dont feel heavied into thinking there is only way one to get your horses soles hardened

Not all athletes are Zola Budd....  and never could be.  I had an old mare that we retired barefoot.  Yes sure, her soles went like concrete and she recovered from her tendon injury...eventually...  but she was never sound on her feet and it was quite frankly the biggest mistake we ever made.

No doubt there will be the "oh yes but who trimmed her" calls to try and explain away the issues she faced but quite frankly, it didnt suit her and thats the end of it.  I couldnt run about with bare feet either...


----------



## mrdarcy (8 December 2010)

mrussell said:



			uh-oh !! the barefoot vultures are circling !!

Look, one size does NOT fit all...  I have experience of both barefoot and traditional shoes.

OP, you know your horse.  Take advice from your vet, take advice from all around you but dont feel heavied into thinking there is only way one to get your horses soles hardened

Not all athletes are Zola Budd....  and never could be.  I had an old mare that we retired barefoot.  Yes sure, her soles went like concrete and she recovered from her tendon injury...eventually...  but she was never sound on her feet and it was quite frankly the biggest mistake we ever made.

No doubt there will be the "oh yes but who trimmed her" calls to try and explain away the issues she faced but quite frankly, it didnt suit her and thats the end of it.  I couldnt run about with bare feet either...
		
Click to expand...

I've also had experience of shod and barefoot. As we say, time after time, you can't simply take shoes off a horse and expect it to develop strong healthy feet by just throwing it out in a field. Diet and environment are at least, if not more important than the trim. How can barefoot not suit any horse - for crying out loud... they weren't born with shoes on!


----------



## mrussell (8 December 2010)

mrdarcy said:



			How can barefoot not suit any horse - for crying out loud... they weren't born with shoes on!
		
Click to expand...

No but then they werent born trotting down the roads and jumping round cross country courses either !  Lets face it, we dont all keep our horses running about in herds on the plains.  Some of our horses have to do more than just "be" grazing herd animals.  

In the same way that we were born barefoot and yet not many of us are able to continue to live and work that way.

I applaud anyone who can maintain their horses, doing what they want them to do, barefoot.  But it simply isnt an option for eveyone... and does not suit every horse in every job.


----------



## Oberon (8 December 2010)

mrussell said:



			uh-oh !! the barefoot vultures are circling !!

Look, one size does NOT fit all...  I have experience of both barefoot and traditional shoes.

OP, you know your horse.  Take advice from your vet, take advice from all around you but dont feel heavied into thinking there is only way one to get your horses soles hardened

Not all athletes are Zola Budd....  and never could be.  I had an old mare that we retired barefoot.  Yes sure, her soles went like concrete and she recovered from her tendon injury...eventually...  but she was never sound on her feet and it was quite frankly the biggest mistake we ever made.

No doubt there will be the "oh yes but who trimmed her" calls to try and explain away the issues she faced but quite frankly, it didnt suit her and thats the end of it.  I couldnt run about with bare feet either...
		
Click to expand...

Excuse me. I do not appreciate being referred to as a 'barefoot vulture'.

I am sorry about your old mare but please don't grind your axe with me.

The OP asked a question on what to do with thin soles and in my experience throwing money at it with lotions and fancy shoes and pads only patches over the problem. It doesn't solve the original issue.

I doubt the horse was born with this problem. Not a genetics issue that some people are so fond of saying. 

So how did the problem start?

In the past competition horses would routinely have their shoes removed out of season so the hoof would get a break from shoes. We don't seem to do this anymore.

I am not anti shoe. If a horse is more comfortable in shoes - then great. But the OP's horse is clearly not - so I would ask why.

Please don't be so hostile to other forum users. It is not necessary.


----------



## mrussell (8 December 2010)

Oberon said:



			Excuse me. I do not appreciate being referred to as a 'barefoot vulture'.


Please don't be so hostile to other forum users. It is not necessary.
		
Click to expand...


You are excused...  and I bet you dont.... but then I didnt in anycase.

I'm not being hostile...  Im pointing out that barefoot doesnt suit everyone, no matter what some people might say.


----------



## Elsbells (8 December 2010)

Sadly and in all probability you'll carry on as you are and it'll cost you a fortune. 

One day though you might pull those shoes as a last resort and give your mare a chance to stand on her own four feet?

Just don't disregard everything offered, shoes can always go back on.


----------



## amandap (8 December 2010)

Ah, shoes, barefoot and tarmac. For all non vultures to watch carefully. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-us0SxGL2o


----------



## Amymay (9 December 2010)

Thin soles are down to two things - an unsuitable diet and lack of stimulation.
		
Click to expand...

What a crock!  Good grief...................................


----------



## mrussell (9 December 2010)

amandap said:



			Ah, shoes, barefoot and tarmac. For all non vultures to watch carefully. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-us0SxGL2o

Click to expand...


oh I absolutely agree that an unshod foot is better able to absorb the load from above BUT its not always practicle to have your horse unshod.  They have to be conditioned for it, hence why places like Rockley Farm spring up as it provides a service to people who have the time and money to try that route PROPERLY.  Does it occur to anyone that landing on the heel may be indicative of toe pain ? possibly from tearing of the laminae ?  Rather than herald those horses as perfect, I'd be concerned that they land heel first, even up hill...  I'd rather see my horse land his hoof straight.

Not everyone does have the time and facilities to go barefoot...and to recommend it as the answer to everyones ills is blindsighted to say the least. Many owners simply do not have the facilities or the time to take their horses barefoot. 

We are on heavy clay sloping paddocks with narrow top-dressed lanes. We dont have nice grassy paddocks or miles of decent bridleways to do the conditioning work.  Thats why taking our old girl barefoot didnt work.  She had totally sore toes at all times...  and landed heel first because she was so sore. 

Its not the best option for everyone....  simples.

Apologies to the OP... Ive taken this WAY off topic...


----------



## mrussell (9 December 2010)

elsbells said:



			Sadly and in all probability you'll carry on as you are and it'll cost you a fortune.
		
Click to expand...

See, its these generalisations that are worrying.. 

To suggest going barefoot is any cheaper is a dangerous thing to do...  the responsible thing to consider is the time and effort required to get them trimmed properly and conditioned adequately.  Its not a cheap option to pull their shoes off and leave them to it.


----------



## Pascal96 (9 December 2010)

The best advise I can offer the OP is to do what I have done and to look on the internet and in books and read everything about feet that you can.  The first thing that you want to look at is diet. Even if you don't go barefoot diet is important and high fibre low sugar/starch is the way to go.  Do read all the small print on the bags of food as not all low sugar foods are what they claim to be.  It will take some time for this to have an effect and I wouldn't consider taking shoes off until she has been on this diet for a while.  In the meantime Keratex hoof hardener is a great help.


----------



## mrdarcy (9 December 2010)

amymay said:



			What a crock!  Good grief...................................
		
Click to expand...

So what is the cause of thin soles then?


----------



## mrdarcy (9 December 2010)

mrussell said:



			We are on heavy clay sloping paddocks with narrow top-dressed lanes. We dont have nice grassy paddocks or miles of decent bridleways to do the conditioning work.  Thats why taking our old girl barefoot didnt work.
		
Click to expand...

Nice grassy paddocks are exactly what you don't want - grassy paddocks are a huge health hazard! If you've got roads to work on then you don't need miles of decent bridleways. And if your only tracks are very stoney then you start out using hoof boots. You don't need special facilities to take your horse barefoot - you just need good advice, knowledge and patience. There are hoof boots to fit every hoof shape and size so no excuses there.


----------



## Amymay (9 December 2010)

mrdarcy said:



			So what is the cause of thin soles then?
		
Click to expand...

There can be a combination of factors, not least of all the general conformation of the foot.


----------



## mrdarcy (9 December 2010)

amymay said:



			There can be a combination of factors, not least of all the general conformation of the foot.
		
Click to expand...

How does conformation of the foot lead to thin soles? What other factors do you mean?


----------



## mrussell (9 December 2010)

mrdarcy said:



			So what is the cause of thin soles then?
		
Click to expand...

In my opinion, soft soles, just like soft hands, is down to environment.  If you spend your days washing up, youre more likely to have soft hands than someone who spents their days laying bricks.  Sweeping generalisation maybe but what you eat has very little to do with the callouses on your hands. The top layer of your skin is affected by what you subject it to.  

Careful stimulation thickens your skin into callouses...  too much too soon and you get blisters.  This is my point, to go barefoot you need to do the careful prep work and it needs to be ongoing and maintained carefully.

I worry that people think they can send their horse away for conditioning for 6 months then return it to its normal environment without it going down hill.


----------



## mrdarcy (9 December 2010)

mrussell said:



			In my opinion, soft soles, just like soft hands, is down to environment.  If you spend your days washing up, youre more likely to have soft hands than someone who spents their days laying bricks.  Sweeping generalisation maybe but what you eat has very little to do with the callouses on your hands. The top layer of your skin is affected by what you subject it to.  

Careful stimulation thickens your skin into callouses...  too much too soon and you get blisters.  This is my point, to go barefoot you need to do the careful prep work and it needs to be ongoing and maintained carefully.

I worry that people think they can send their horse away for conditioning for 6 months then return it to its normal environment without it going down hill.
		
Click to expand...

I'd agree entirely with that. The diet part of sensitive soles is due to inflammation of the supercorium, including the solar corium. Successful barefoot takes work - I always stress that and the fact that hoof strength is a constantly changing thing, so just because your horse is transitioned doesn't mean he will stay that way unless you keep on top of the diet and environment. It's a long term investment but well well worth it.


----------



## maggiesmum (9 December 2010)

amymay said:



			There can be a combination of factors, not least of all the general conformation of the foot.
		
Click to expand...

And the combination of factors are...............??      
Oh yeah - diet and lack of suitable stimulation!

Lotions and potions are sticking plasters and won't fix the problem just like painting any amount of nail hardeners onto the ends of your fingernails will stop them from breaking and splitting, and just as the hairdresser can't stick split ends back together.
You can only grow better feet, and yes even horses with poor conformation can grow decent functional feet although they may look different to the 'pretty' picture in the book as the horse will be compensating for something.

op - what is he fed?


----------



## lisan (9 December 2010)

maggiesmum said:



			And the combination of factors are...............??      
Oh yeah - diet and lack of suitable stimulation!

Lotions and potions are sticking plasters and won't fix the problem just like painting any amount of nail hardeners onto the ends of your fingernails will stop them from breaking and splitting, and just as the hairdresser can't stick split ends back together.
You can only grow better feet, and yes even horses with poor conformation can grow decent functional feet although they may look different to the 'pretty' picture in the book as the horse will be compensating for something.

op - what is he fed?
		
Click to expand...

I have read everyones responses!  Did'nt expect to kick off an argument!  

Anyway, when I first collected her from the racing yard she as unshod, not sure how long she had been barefoot for.  As she was unfit and an unknown quantity I walked her inhand round the farm for the first couple of weeks, and she really struggled.

So had her shod, have done lots with her and had bruised soles on more than one occasion - so went down the Gel Pad route which works a treat - then we had all that horrible wet weather, now this hard ground with = soft sole.

All summer the hoof quality has not been good, now her hoof looks great but the soles have gone soft.

She is in for the winter, ridden on surfaces, and hacked as much as possible.

Fed Calm and Condition, (small scoop) Showing Mix, and supplements, Biotin, Glucoseamin, Magnesium, and the Garlic/Linseed and Parsley Oil.  

She is a very fussy eater, and very highly strung and cannot afford to loose any weight.


----------



## Amymay (9 December 2010)

Lisan, have you ever had the foot x-rayed.


----------



## lisan (9 December 2010)

No, not been x rayed before


----------



## Amymay (9 December 2010)

lisan said:



			No, not been x rayed before
		
Click to expand...

It might be worth considering to check that the issue is not underlying - it could also help your farrier as well.


----------



## maggiesmum (9 December 2010)

X-rays might be an idea, but as the feet have been worse over the summer when the sugar levels are higher in the grass i'd suggest doing some research into a barefoot diet, even if you keep the shoes on it'll be highly beneficial. I've never struggled to keep weight on any TB with it and because its high fibre, low sugar and starch it tends keep a lid on any stressy types.

You're right it shouldn't degenerate into an argument but its frustrating when people jump up saying you're wrong but when questioned don't seem to be able to tell you why or what the alternative is.


----------



## bensababy (9 December 2010)

maggiesmum said:



			X-rays might be an idea, but as the feet have been worse over the summer when the sugar levels are higher in the grass i'd suggest doing some research into a barefoot diet, even if you keep the shoes on it'll be highly beneficial. I've never struggled to keep weight on any TB with it and because its high fibre, low sugar and starch it tends keep a lid on any stressy types.

You're right it shouldn't degenerate into an argument but its frustrating when people jump up saying you're wrong but when questioned don't seem to be able to tell you why or what the alternative is.
		
Click to expand...

I do have to echo this diet statement, my pony was always a tough sturdy little good doer, till he went down with Laminitis (through no fault of my own), over the last 4 years he has incredibly thin soles so thin you could actually push in with your thumb - bearing in mind x-rays were done and the pedal bone was inches through penetrating the sole. My Farrier who i think is the best in the business worked wonders on his feet and advised me to look into his diet, vet also gave great advise on diet and that the diet he was previously on contributed towards the state of his feet now. Now after contacting many feed suppliers i have him on a fantastic simple system diet along with Keratex and his soles are as tough as nails.

Anyway after i have waffled on - its hard exactly what to pin point the recovery on but i would put good money on it being the change of diet.


----------



## Kallibear (9 December 2010)

lisan said:



			Anyway, when I first collected her from the racing yard she as unshod, not sure how long she had been barefoot for.  As she was unfit and an unknown quantity I walked her inhand round the farm for the first couple of weeks, and she really struggled.

So had her shod, have done lots with her and had bruised soles on more than one occasion - so went down the Gel Pad route which works a treat - then we had all that horrible wet weather, now this hard ground with = soft sole.

All summer the hoof quality has not been good, now her hoof looks great but the soles have gone soft.
		
Click to expand...

The likelyhood of her being barefoot for much time before hand is minimal, which means she'll have had her shoes ripped off not long before you got her. After years of being shod it's no bloody wonder she was sore inhand!   Add a totally unsuitable diet for a horses (cereal mixes and good grass) and of course her feet are going to tender and sore. Making her walk unshod round farm tracks, without addressing the diet or having protective boots on her, will only have made her worse 

Her soles have gone soft and thin becasue they are not getting used - like skin callouses the more the sole is stimulated the thicker it gets and the less it's stimulation the thinner it gets. It's a vicious cycle, esp for race horses - they're shod far too early, before their feet finish growing and they're fed a totally unsuitable diet. So they have shoes on, which stops any further foot development and makes their soles weak due to lack of simuation. Which means they're then unable to 'manage' barefoot without lots of help so never get their shoes off and their feet become worse. The only time any have the cycle broken is when it comes to crisis point like you're now finding.

The level if sitimulation is the key though - ripping her shoes off and expecting her to work over rocky surfaces would be cruel and make her very sore and totally destory her feet. She needs time and HELP to slowly build up her soles _whilst keeping her comfortable_. Keeping her comfortable is the essential - moving correctly and confidently is the only way to help rebuild her feet (correct movement promotes correct development and visa-versa) and being 'crippled' and 'hopping lame' has no place in going barefoot. In fact neither does even beening slightly sore.

That's where boots and pads come in. They are a cheats way of allowing her to work constanly on a smooth flat hard surface at all times. Any barefoot-er will tell you that smooth tarmac is the best possible thing to develop thicker tougher feet (i.e stimulation with no lumpy stones) so boots are the next best thing. For the very sore horse putting pads in is a stepping stone to hard flat surfaces and may be needed.

The diet others have mentioned is cructial too - all the correct stimulation in the world will be a waste of time if she's not being fed suitabley (the easily way to understand the effects of an unsuitable diet is to think of it as a very very low grade of lami and, like any form of lami, some horses are more 'suceptable' to it, racehorses more espeically)

Do consider taking her shoes off and getting boots. Many are dead easy to use and she can do pretty much anything in them. Over time she will need them less and less, as her feet toughen up.

As it is putting pads under her shoes will do nothing at all to help her soles, only make them worse and ahe will end up needing to spend the rest of her life in them to keep her confortable


----------



## ScarlettLady (9 December 2010)

lisan said:



			We have had gel pads on, but with all the wet weather, then the hard ground she has gone lame, had the farrier out today who has done a fab job and put 'plaster casts' on both fronts and nailed the shoes to them.

But her soles are really thin and very soft and wondered if iodine was the best thing for hardening them?
		
Click to expand...

My farrier recommends iodine for hardening the feet, but spoke to a friend's farrier, and he said it makes no difference, so not entirely sure re the iodine, something i've used in the past but couldn't say i'd noticed a massive difference, think i'll try the keratex next time too


----------



## maggiesmum (9 December 2010)

Kallibear said:



			As it is putting pads under her shoes will do nothing at all to help her soles, only make them worse and ahe will end up needing to spend the rest of her life in them to keep her confortable 

Click to expand...

Thinking about it, whenever i've had false nails put on (which admittedly isn't often as I tend to catch them and rip them off) my nails have always been soft and in terrible condition when the falsies have come off - maybe a similar thing to pads?
I have dodgy ankles but my oesteo tells me not to use ankle supports as I need to make my own ankles stronger rather than give them false support - again, maybe its a similar train of thought?

Just musings???


----------



## Kallibear (9 December 2010)

maggiesmum said:



			Thinking about it, whenever i've had false nails put on (which admittedly isn't often as I tend to catch them and rip them off) my nails have always been soft and in terrible condition when the falsies have come off - maybe a similar thing to pads?
I have dodgy ankles but my oesteo tells me not to use ankle supports as I need to make my own ankles stronger rather than give them false support - again, maybe its a similar train of thought?

Just musings???
		
Click to expand...

Yep, pretty much exactly. Although the 'nail' one is because the moisture was made them soft. Pads under shoes do the same (and can give terrible thrush too ) but it's also the lack of stimulation making them weak. It's similar to wear a sticky plaster on a finger for weeks (which I had to do once when my nail fell off  ). The skin on the digital pad was so soft and sensitive once it can off and took a couple of days to regrown the callous.

The 'ankle support' thoery could go for shoes in general - they're false support and hide a weakness. You _could _have worn the ankle support for the rest of your life though, like many horses wear shoes................


----------



## soloequestrian (9 December 2010)

I've got three who work in their bare feet.  One is a full TB, who has been bare for several years now.  He has always been comfy on grass and flat surfaces, but struggles with stony ground.  He's been on the barefoot mix of magnesium, linseed and brewers yeast for just over a year now, and his feet have improved a lot.  They are still a little broken back, but the angle has changed for the better, the hoof capsule is tighter and his soles have finally started to thicken up - he now has concave soles with a reasonable depth of frog.  He has worn boots for stony ground and jumping for several years, and they are great.  They can also be fitted with pads to make them even more comfy.  I'm hoping I will be able to start working him without his boots for more of the time soon.
My mare had an operation on her foot this year and had to have it bandaged and booted for about six weeks.  Her sole turned to horrible mushy stuff.  Once she was back to normal, the whole of the mushy sole peeled off one day and there was nice healthy sole underneath.  It did really illustrate the amount of exfoliation that goes on when their feet are touching the ground.  Her feet have always been good, but have also benefited from the barefoot mix.  
If you want to have a look at hoof boots, EasyCare is a good place to start, and Cavallos are popular too.
I quite like the phrase, picked up from a farrier's website 'you can't shoe a horse sound'.  If a horse is not sound without shoes, it makes sense that problem should be addressed before the horse is shod, rather than shoeing to 'solve' the problem.


----------



## brucea (10 December 2010)

I quite like the phrase, picked up from a farrier's website 'you can't shoe a horse sound'. If a horse is not sound without shoes, it makes sense that problem should be addressed before the horse is shod, rather than shoeing to 'solve' the problem.
		
Click to expand...

Brilliant. So true.

P.S. Link says Hi.


----------



## tristar (19 December 2010)

i found seaweed the best thing ever for feet, probably because it contains everything necessary to grow hooves, they need the full spectrum of nutrition to improve their feet, it works and the best thing is its cheap. 
i put stockhom tar on the soles in wet weather or muddy conditions paint it on the sole including the frog  and around the hoof up over the nail holes.
bring them in at night so their feet get dry completely  and give a good deep bed to give a soft cushioning and to encourage them to lie down and rest properly.
the boots such as old macks are suitable for turnout in rough frosty ground conditions, to protect the soles and prevent chipping of the wall


----------



## brucea (20 December 2010)

i found seaweed the best thing ever for feet, probably because it contains everything necessary to grow hooves, they need the full spectrum of nutrition to improve their feet, it works and the best thing is its cheap. 
i put stockhom tar on the soles in wet weather or muddy conditions paint it on the sole including the frog and around the hoof up over the nail holes.
		
Click to expand...

Hmm...yes seaweed is a useful supplement, but soem folks express concern that it is higher in iodine and not "balanced" in terms of its mineral profile. 

Personally I found it is a good ingredient in the feed bucket, and their feet did better on it,  but still supplement magnesium, copper, zinc, selenium and other minerals.

Stockholm Tar - hmm....I am of the mindset that the only thing that goes on the hooves is fresh air and water. No oils, greases, gunks, fats. 

First you can clog up the hoof - many of the opportunistic bacteria love a greasy clogged up hoof. That's the fresh air bit 

But the other issue is that the hoof wall itself is part of the natural fluid damping system in the foot - there is a moisture gradient aross the hoof wall from hard on the outside to almost peanut butter on the inside (a little exageration for effect!) - this is there to dissipate shock. Anything you put on the hoof wall affects that moisture gradient and affects the ability of the hoof wall to maintain that moisture balance.

Folks put on hoof dressings because it makes the hoof look nice, and they claim to have all kinds of benefits such as preventing cracks etc., hoof dressings can't prevent cracks becuase they don't  address the primary cause of them which is usually loading and dietary issues. 

In reality a hydrated hoof, that has dry ground to stand on when the horse wants to - will function best.


----------



## moorman (18 December 2011)

I quite understand if you are unable to go barefoot even though it would I am sure be the quickest way to repair the sole problem.
I would still urge you to think about whats causing the thin soles as well as treating what you have in front of you.
1) In all my years as a farrier I have never seen a horse born with flat, thin soles. In fact it is now accepted that they are man-made, either through diet, shoeing, rimming,  conditions, (usually a combination of all these things)
When I was shoeing feet that had very thin soles  I did try to increase the blood supply to the area that produces the sole and to also relieve the pressure on the connective wall tissue thus lessening the chances of a prolapsed sole.
The main thing I would want to say to you is please, please involve your vet and farrier at the same time, it may cost more on the first visit, but you will save a fortune by having a team that is working in the same direction.
As for keratex, dont forget, hard things crack, soft things bend


----------



## CBFan (18 December 2011)

I think you've been given some very helpfull advice already and barefoot or not, you really need to adress your horse's diet. The mix in particular will not be helping your case.

Daunting as it is, I do think there is a lot to be said for going barefoot. You might find you still need boots for certain terain but I think that is a better option than shoes and gel pads which let's face it are an absolute breeding ground for thrush and other nasties, which won't be helping your horse stay sound.


----------



## Andalucian (18 December 2011)

mrussell said:



			But it simply isnt an option for eveyone... and does not suit every horse in every job.
		
Click to expand...

Absolutely right, but it IS something that everyone should do for their horses every year, a  period of rest, barefoot to repair thin soles and contraction to keep the feet healthy for many many years.

I'm currently eventing two 16 year olds, who feel like 6 year olds, and show no signs of wanting to retire - I'm convinced my decisions regarding their feet/feed/workload have paid off for them.


----------



## Andalucian (18 December 2011)

moorman said:



			As for keratex, dont forget, hard things crack, soft things bend
		
Click to expand...

"nods"  I wish there were more farriers like you Moorman - top bloke, talks all sorts of sense.


----------



## peanut (19 December 2011)

mrdarcy said:



			Thin soles are down to two things - an unsuitable diet and lack of stimulation.
		
Click to expand...

My horse is also has thin soles (and very flat tb feet) and is extremely uncomfortable without shoes.  

If so much is down to owner mismanagement, perhaps for starters you could tell me where I'm going wrong on diet.  She had laminitis a couple of years ago and her grazing is therefore restricted:

Hi Fi Lite
Top Spec Anti Lam
Good quality hay

Speedibeet added in winter


----------



## Oberon (19 December 2011)

martha said:



			My horse is also has thin soles (and very flat tb feet) and is extremely uncomfortable without shoes.  

If so much is down to owner mismanagement, perhaps for starters you could tell me where I'm going wrong on diet.  She had laminitis a couple of years ago and her grazing is therefore restricted:

Hi Fi Lite
Top Spec Anti Lam
Good quality hay

Speedibeet added in winter
		
Click to expand...

I don't think the poster you have quoted posts on HHO any more (this thread originated in 2010) plus, given the hostile tone of your post I'm not sure many peeps will be willing to reply?
	
	
		
		
	


	





I will just add that Hi Fi Lite contains molasses (even in low amounts) and alfalfa - which some horses don't react well with.
Top Spec Anti Lam is IMO a hideous waste of cash for the ingredients you get. And there are horses that don't get on with it.

My pet theory is that TBs are actually much more sensitive to sugar than we realise and the mere fact that the traditional TB diet is often 'conditioning mixes' etc that are waaaay high in sugar, is often reflected in their feet......but that's OK because 'TB's have crap feet'.





Also added that TB's are often shod from an early age, before their hooves have fully developed.

There's also some theories coming out that poor hooves and weak lateral cartilage development starts from a lack of stimulation as foals.

Chicken and egg?

So, if you look at your horse's hooves and you can see flare, wall ripples and thin soles - then it's likely the diet is too high in sugar and too low in minerals for her (please remember that feed companies mix their feeds in accordance to the NRC - which works on the lowest amounts to prevent a full blown deficiency......that's not the same as providing enough for good health).

If the your horse's hoof is otherwise healthy but just thin soled - then it's likely down to lack of ground stimulation. This is a side effect from being shod and not much you can do about it if she has to remain shod. Hopefully your farrier is only paring the sole down to the live plane and no further.

If you are happy with your horse then cool. If not, there are things you can do. While there is circulation, you can ALWAYS improve a hoof with the right approach (by that I mean - the approach that works for the horse because they know best).


----------



## cptrayes (19 December 2011)

martha said:



			My horse is also has thin soles (and very flat tb feet) and is extremely uncomfortable without shoes.  

If so much is down to owner mismanagement, perhaps for starters you could tell me where I'm going wrong on diet.  She had laminitis a couple of years ago and her grazing is therefore restricted:

Hi Fi Lite
Top Spec Anti Lam
Good quality hay

Speedibeet added in winter
		
Click to expand...

If you don't soak your hay for at least 12 hours and change the water every day, then you have your answer in one.

If you do soak your hay and you do not know the mineral balance analysis and what minerals your horse's diet is heavy and light in, then you have your answer in two. If your "good quality" hay is pure ryegrass that'll do it nicely.


----------



## peanut (19 December 2011)

Oberon said:



			I don't think the poster you have quoted posts on HHO any more (this thread originated in 2010) plus, given the hostile tone of your post I'm not sure many peeps will be willing to reply?
	
	
		
		
	


	




Click to expand...

Good heavens, it wasn't intended to be hostile in any way!  My apologies if it sounded so.  

I'm genuinely interested in diet and have posted previously on my horse's feet/the possibility of going barefoot/Rockley Farm etc.


----------



## Oberon (19 December 2011)

My apologies. I was reading tone that wasn't there.


----------



## Cluck (19 December 2011)

I have found that one of the major causes of thin soles is that the farrier carves them away in order to put a shoe on


----------



## trina1982 (19 December 2011)

Being nosey, i looked up the OP's other posts. Sadly, it looks like her horse got full blown lami, and a sinker. Vets opinion was that LGL was probably there for a while.
Thought it worth mentioning as the thread originated so long ago.

Would love to hear an (hopefully happy?) update OP, if you read this.
Trina x


----------

