# What Is Wrong With His Back End?



## coralwings20 (1 April 2014)

William had 6 weeks off when we moved and was as fat as a pig! I have brought him back into work slowly but he looks so tucked up behind all the time! I clipped him but instead of a trace clip he had a full clip (minus face & legs) as he was so naughty. I have been riding him upto an hour and lots of pole work - he struggles to maintain an outline in trot but not canter/walk. He is feed 3 big scoops of happyhoof & two big scoops of speedibeet (split into different meals) - on grass & has adaylib hay. Thing is he lives out with a sweat rug & mw rug (to hot in a hw) - have natural shelter. Have enclosed some photos - any ideas?


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## Amy567 (1 April 2014)

Could you be over feeding him, brought him back into work too hard too quickly and actually he's tied up? That's what happened with my mare


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## Switchthehorse (1 April 2014)

That sounds like a LOT of food? Hard to tell how big he is but any reason why he is fed so much?


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## Alan's mum (1 April 2014)

As he looks so hollow on the right I think you have to feed him double as its quite obvious that all his current feed is only going to the left.


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## Willow1306 (1 April 2014)

cross posted.


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## Amy567 (1 April 2014)

Alan's mum said:



			As he looks so hollow on the right I think you have to feed him double as its quite obvious that all his current feed is only going to the left.
		
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This made me chuckle!


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## Fat_Pony (1 April 2014)

As a side note he has shockingly bad front feet


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## Amymay (1 April 2014)

Pictures won't load for me. But how long has he been back in work for and is he still fat?


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## ester (1 April 2014)

It doesn't sound like a lot of food to me switchthehorse :confused3:

Op do you have any older pics of him fat as a pig? what is he normally like through the winter? I can only get the first photo to show atm! 

I think I would be investigating whether there was something preventing him putting on muscle/maybe run some bloods if this isn't usual for him

I also thought his feet were worrying, is he sound/def not in pain anywhere?


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## Wagtail (1 April 2014)

Sorry, but there is something serious going on with his right quarters. That is some mega muscle wastage. Also, the way he is standing is very very suspect. Get the vet out and do not work him. That kind of muscle wastage indicates a fracture or major trauma going on.


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## JanetGeorge (1 April 2014)

He's wasted on the right hand side.  Could be any number of reasons and I think you should start with a vet.  At the same time, if he's been shod in the past 6 weeks, sack your farrier!


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## ester (1 April 2014)

ah I only saw the RHS pic


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## Alan's mum (1 April 2014)

I think you will find that if you add 4 scoops of pure oats to his feed he will have more energy and will move a little faster.
As for the rugging issue, what the hell are you doing taking his HW off him at this time of year ???


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## ester (1 April 2014)

I think plenty of horses are without a HW rug in April.....


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## Wagtail (1 April 2014)

For amymay:


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## CobsGalore (1 April 2014)

That is some serious muscle wastage on his right hind!

Get the vet out!!


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## Amymay (1 April 2014)

Thanks Wagtail.

Yep, time for the vet - and no work until he's been seen.


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## ester (1 April 2014)

Oh crikey, yeah vet! - how long have you had him OP?


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## Abbeygale (1 April 2014)

I would get a good chiro out to check him over - my young Arab looked like that on his hind quarters, and during his chaos causing in the field he had tweaked something in his back, and it was stopping him building up muscle correctly.  My boy was not lame, and never for a second gave any indication that anything was wrong with him, but after a couple of sessions, and a month or two of long and low, slow pole work, he started picking up beautifully

I think the photos you have posted are poor photos, as he stood in a rather ungainly fashion,which isn't great for assessing him IMO.


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## Alan's mum (1 April 2014)

ester said:



			I think plenty of horses are without a HW rug in April.....
		
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No no no no no !

Sorry ester but you have got it all wrong, I start rugging mine in April in HW's , it saves me having to spend hours brushing our their winter coat


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## Alan's mum (1 April 2014)

And the date today is ????


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## ILuvCowparsely (1 April 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			William had 6 weeks off when we moved and was as fat as a pig! I have brought him back into work slowly but he looks so tucked up behind all the time! I clipped him but instead of a trace clip he had a full clip (minus face & legs) as he was so naughty. I have been riding him upto an hour and lots of pole work - he struggles to maintain an outline in trot but not canter/walk. He is feed 3 big scoops of happyhoof & two big scoops of speedibeet (split into different meals) - on grass & has adaylib hay. Thing is he lives out with a sweat rug & mw rug (to hot in a hw) - have natural shelter. Have enclosed some photos - any ideas?





























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Sounds a lot of feed to me 5 scoops in each feed, why don't you phone D & H better less of the right stuff is better than loads of the wrong stuff.

 I would get the vet or Physio up to see him  becasue if he has back or hip issues he will carry himself / work wrong, thus loosing muscles in certain places


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## CobsGalore (1 April 2014)

I'd be getting a different farrier to look at him too. His feet look very under run


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## Tiddlypom (1 April 2014)

Alan's mum said:



			And the date today is ????
		
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Some threads invite facetious comments. This does not appear to be one of them.

ETA I am having problems viewing the photos too. Is there one directly from behind with him standing square? He certainly looks odd in the one shown, but he is standing awkwardly.


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## Auslander (1 April 2014)

Alan's mum said:



			And the date today is ????
		
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I think it might be time to shut up now. This isn't a joke thread - clearly.


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## ester (1 April 2014)

Auslander said:



			I think it might be time to shut up now. This isn't a joke thread - clearly.
		
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quite


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## Goldenstar (1 April 2014)

OP if you have not photoshopped that picture from behind as a joke please get the vet.


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## Fun Times (1 April 2014)

OP is his left side the same or is it just the right?


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## Abbeygale (1 April 2014)

Tiddlypom said:



			Some threads invite facetious comments. This does not appear to be one of them.

ETA I am having problems viewing the photos too. Is there one directly from behind with him standing square? He certainly looks odd in the one shown, but he is standing awkwardly.
		
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My thoughts too TP - the horse is obviously weak behind, but is stood at a very strange angle, and what kind of appears as 'muscle wastage' looks more to me more the way the horse is stood rather than anything else. It would be better to assess the horse from some new photos where he is stood up properly


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## CobsGalore (1 April 2014)

OP how long have you had this horse for?


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## Wagtail (1 April 2014)

It's not the way he's standing. He is standing that way because he is in pain.


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## Alan's mum (1 April 2014)

OP is on line but not one reply to comments


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## *hic* (1 April 2014)

Alan's mum said:



			OP is on line but not one reply to comments
		
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With the way you've posted on here and trivialised it / made fun of it I don't think that's entirely surprising.


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## coralwings20 (1 April 2014)

I have had him 6 months but have only been hacking - since starting schooling he has lost his bottom - I do plenty of transitions & pole work.


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## twiggy2 (1 April 2014)

vet


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## GlitterPup (1 April 2014)

Goodness me!! Vet.


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## *hic* (1 April 2014)

Can he stand straight when viewed from the back or is he always like that? Did you have him vetted when you bought him?


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## Amymay (1 April 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			I have had him 6 months but have only been hacking - since starting schooling he has lost his bottom - I do plenty of transitions & pole work.
		
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Interesting - definitely one for the vet.

When was he last shod?


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## Wagtail (1 April 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			I have had him 6 months but have only been hacking - since starting schooling he has lost his bottom - I do plenty of transitions & pole work.
		
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Stop working him and get the vet.


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## spotty_pony (1 April 2014)

Definitely severe muscle wastage on the right hand side of his quarters - as others have said get the Vet out asap and possibly a Chiropractor under their recommendations.


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## Pigeon (1 April 2014)

Abbeygale said:



			My thoughts too TP - the horse is obviously weak behind, but is stood at a very strange angle, and what kind of appears as 'muscle wastage' looks more to me more the way the horse is stood rather than anything else. It would be better to assess the horse from some new photos where he is stood up properly
		
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This. I'm an equine photographer, trust me when I say they can make themselves look deformed very easily... Do his quarters look asymmetrical to you all the time, or do you think that was just a moment in time?

Photos of him stood square (from behind) would help a lot. If he won't stand square, that speaks for itself, really. 

I would say vet first, and if they can't find anything significant, go down the chiro or physio route - I wouldn't be surprised if he's a bit ouchy from the increased workload.  I would also cut out all of the hard feed, in case it is something like azoturia or ulcers. 

I don't know why people are being sarky, have I missed something?


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## poiuytrewq (1 April 2014)

OP- Is your horse sound? The only similar horse ive seen, and it was very similar at the time was a recently fractured pelvis. Obviously this horse was near unable to walk but it did look very similar.


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## weebarney (1 April 2014)

Does he always stand with his leg poked out to the side or is that just a bad photo ?


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## Greylegs (1 April 2014)

Please get a good vet to look at this horse ASAP .... That level of asymmetry and muscle wastage shouts of a trauma or injury.


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## quirky (1 April 2014)

I'm really surprised that you have such visible muscle wastage yet are still working this horse, including over poles.

Do the lad a favour and get a vet to him. I don't think you should have let it deteriorate this far without a professional looking at him, assuming it didn't happen overnight of course.


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## Alan's mum (1 April 2014)

Wake up and smell the coffee guys!


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## Queenbee (1 April 2014)

Wagtail said:



			Sorry, but there is something serious going on with his right quarters. That is some mega muscle wastage. Also, the way he is standing is very very suspect. Get the vet out and do not work him. That kind of muscle wastage indicates a fracture or major trauma going on.
		
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I agree, whatever is going on it looks like significant muscle wastage as opposed to the inability to put weight on, if that makes sense, that hindquarter wastage is one very specific and defined area.  I would want further investigations with a vet.


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## Queenbee (1 April 2014)

Abbeygale said:



			I would get a good chiro out to check him over - my young Arab looked like that on his hind quarters, and during his chaos causing in the field he had tweaked something in his back, and it was stopping him building up muscle correctly.  My boy was not lame, and never for a second gave any indication that anything was wrong with him, but after a couple of sessions, and a month or two of long and low, slow pole work, he started picking up beautifully

I think the photos you have posted are poor photos, as he stood in a rather ungainly fashion,which isn't great for assessing him IMO.
		
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Actually I'm all for chiros and massage therapists, but in this case, it being so extreme I would want to start with a vet.


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## Queenbee (1 April 2014)

Abbeygale said:



			My thoughts too TP - the horse is obviously weak behind, but is stood at a very strange angle, and what kind of appears as 'muscle wastage' looks more to me more the way the horse is stood rather than anything else. It would be better to assess the horse from some new photos where he is stood up properly
		
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The stance of the horse would produce an awkward looking photo, but not that awkward looking, every photo shows an element of wastage in my opinion to a degree that if the horse was standing level would still be apparent.


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## colourful paddy (1 April 2014)

JanetGeorge said:



			He's wasted on the right hand side.  Could be any number of reasons and I think you should start with a vet.  At the same time, if he's been shod in the past 6 weeks, sack your farrier!
		
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Looks like his pelvis is out ..Suggest vet immediately


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## Alan's mum (1 April 2014)

Ohhhh  plleeeasee !

We now have a colourful paddy foal !!!!!!!!!


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## Moomin1 (1 April 2014)

colourful paddy said:



			Looks like his pelvis is out ..Suggest vet immediately
		
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If his pelvis was 'out' he wouldn't be weight bearing at all.


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## colourful paddy (1 April 2014)

Alan's mum said:



			Ohhhh  plleeeasee !

We now have a colourful paddy foal !!!!!!!!!
		
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I'm very happy to be a late born foal  but thank you for the wlcome


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## justabob (1 April 2014)

Moomin1 said:



			If his pelvis was 'out' he wouldn't be weight bearing at all.
		
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Mooms he is not weight bearing, look at pic number 2.


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## Alan's mum (1 April 2014)

colourful paddy said:



			I'm very happy to be a late born foal  but thank you for the wlcome
		
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Please people !!!!!!!!!!


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## justabob (1 April 2014)

Alan's mum said:



			Please people !!!!!!!!!!
		
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Do you have a problem with a new poster?


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## Moomin1 (1 April 2014)

justabob said:



			Mooms he is not weight bearing, look at pic number 2.
		
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Op says he is doing walk/trot/canter and pole work under saddle though?


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## Spring Feather (1 April 2014)

Pigeon said:



			This. I'm an equine photographer, trust me when I say they can make themselves look deformed very easily... Do his quarters look asymmetrical to you all the time, or do you think that was just a moment in time?

Photos of him stood square (from behind) would help a lot. If he won't stand square, that speaks for itself, really.
		
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I totally agree with you that some photos taken of horses can make the horse look totally deformed.  I'm not a professional photographer but I have enough horses that they are photographed a lot and some of the photos I've taken (speed frames) would for sure make the subject look scary!  

OP if this is not an April Fools joke and it isn't just bad photography then perhaps a call into the vet would be prudent.  If it is an AF joke, then you managed to fool plenty on here :smile3:


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## Mince Pie (1 April 2014)

Alan's Mum, your views on this thread are crystal clear, therefore if you have nothing else to say then sod off. 

OP I have no idea what is going on so I will echo the others and say "vet!".


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## Mike007 (1 April 2014)

I guess we all like a joke sometimes Alans mum ,andplease dont get me wrong ,I do appreciate your sense of humour,but possibly this is a pony that seriously needs some help and and owner who may be too inexperienced to understand . Not having a go, I did chuckle at your post ,but I think this is a horse with a serious problem and am sure you are a horse lover too.


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## Alan's mum (2 April 2014)

Mike007 said:



			I guess we all like a joke sometimes Alans mum ,andplease dont get me wrong ,I do appreciate your sense of humour,but possibly this is a pony that seriously needs some help and and owner who may be too inexperienced to understand . Not having a go, I did chuckle at your post ,but I think this is a horse with a serious problem and am sure you are a horse lover too.
		
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Thankyou Mike ....I just find it odd that the OP has only replied once , I have messaged OP and apologized and explained that I thought the thread was an April Fool and she hasn't responded to my apolgie


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## Mike007 (2 April 2014)

Ok I do understand but you have to reaalise that the whole horse ownership thing is so loaded with emotion that even the most casual remark at the wrong time can cause a panic. And I am no exception. Have been around horses for 50 years ,yet when it comes to my own horse ,I turn into a quivering wreck. My first introduction to this was age 16 with my new horse comming off the lorry ,and the yard owner said "theres a bit of blood" meening that this was a horse of quality. I of course completely paniced that my new horse was hurt!


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## Queenbee (2 April 2014)

justabob said:



			Do you have a problem with a new poster?
		
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Nah, looks more like AM just has a problem full stop


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## justabob (2 April 2014)

Queenbee said:



			Nah, looks more like AM just has a problem full stop 

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I would say so QB, just read her post in Club House...............jeeeeez


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## coralwings20 (2 April 2014)

This might just be a bad photo - will take more later - he is not lame & i will show a photo of a peachy bum two weeks ago hence the pole work to see if it would help. he has only ever been hacked the last few years & no problems. he had his back checked & no problems. will give a vet a ring today


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## weebarney (2 April 2014)

Ok but it doesn't really matter what his bum was like two weeks ago. He needs resting until seen by a vet asap


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## coralwings20 (2 April 2014)

going to get flamed but this was him two weeks ago - son was eating so didn't record the Novice test:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtube_gdata_player&v=P-UQJgLjttI&app=desktop


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## weebarney (2 April 2014)

I'm on my phone so the horse is a tiny speck in the distance in that video


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## ester (2 April 2014)

Pigeon said:



			This. I'm an equine photographer, trust me when I say they can make themselves look deformed very easily... Do his quarters look asymmetrical to you all the time, or do you think that was just a moment in time?

Photos of him stood square (from behind) would help a lot. If he won't stand square, that speaks for itself, really. 

I would say vet first, and if they can't find anything significant, go down the chiro or physio route - I wouldn't be surprised if he's a bit ouchy from the increased workload.  I would also cut out all of the hard feed, in case it is something like azoturia or ulcers. 

I don't know why people are being sarky, have I missed something?
		
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I'm not sure he is stood that extremely to look quite so wonky though. If mine stands with a leg like that he doesn't look like that, but certainly some squarer/older photos would be interesting to see OP.

If he isn't lame he perhaps has a historical injury which has only now been highlighted that he is doing more than hacking.


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## Wagtail (2 April 2014)

The video is too small for me to see properly, but he is swishing his tail a lot. Could he have had an accident in the field lately? The muscle wastage is very evident from the side as well as the rear shots. Can you get some more pictures of him standing straight? Is that hollow visible all the time? If so, as I have said before, you need to stop working him and get the vet. You say he is 'tucked up behind', 'struggles to maintain an outline' so there is definitely something wrong. That coupled by such severe muscle wastage would concern me greatly.


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## *hic* (2 April 2014)

OP is he moving now roughly the same as he was in that test or is it since then that he's finding it difficult to maintain an outline in trot?

Was he out at grass before you moved? or has his management changed totally? 

Can you get some photos of him stood up level today?


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## coralwings20 (2 April 2014)

when I bought him:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtube_gdata_player&v=P-UQJgLjttI&app=desktop


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## Wagtail (2 April 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			when I bought him:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtube_gdata_player&v=P-UQJgLjttI&app=desktop















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He looks very nice. But OP, why are you not getting the vet out to look at him?


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## Booboos (2 April 2014)

For me the back end looks under developed in all the photos. I have a horse with severe muscle wastage in his hindquarters due to poisoning and he looks very similar. If you look at the front half he is a large horse with a deep shoulder, if you look at the back half he is a small horse without much of a bum. From behind as well as the weird muscle wastage on the right, the bottom is angular with no muscles either side. The video is very difficult to see but at times he seems to be snatching the right hind.

I think you need a vet asap, sorry.


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## shmoo (2 April 2014)

I'm absolutely no expert at all, but I have had my TB mare recently diagnosed with massive back trauma.  She didn't display lame at all.  Passed the flexion tests with flying colours a horse much younger might have issue with. She has always had what I'd call a weak looking back end though, just don't be fooled or conned by not being lame or looking in obvious pain.  Horses are brave forgiving animals and will try hard to please, especially if you're the one feeding them!

I'm guessing he looks so hollow in your first photo's as he isn't stood square?  Your chap does look like he has a little roach back to me?  My other has this and is has not once been an issue or stopped her having a full career in polo and now enjoying a leisurely retirement as a happy hacker.

For your peace of mind I would most definitely call the vet, a least then you will know for sure.


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## ester (2 April 2014)

Wagtail said:



			He looks very nice. But OP, why are you not getting the vet out to look at him?
		
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She has said she would speak to the vet today


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## Wagtail (2 April 2014)

ester said:



			She has said she would speak to the vet today
		
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Oh good. I missed that, thanks.


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## Fides (2 April 2014)

Following with interest as I have never seen anything like this before.


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## CBFan (2 April 2014)

If he has lost THAT much muscle / weight in just two weeks, get the vet out. That is not right. My boy has been lame on and off for a while now (sometimes so subtle you can barely see it) and doesn't have that much muscle wastage. I would be running bloods and getting worm counts done (both blood and faecal) as a starting point but as others have said, he is swishing his tail quite a lot and looks 'tight' in his gait behind. Could be a bilateral problem, thus not presenting classically lame.

As an aside. It sounds like he is getting tonnes of feed for his apparent size (my 17.2hh lad gets a handful of bucket feed and add lib hay). Your lad doesn't appear to be lacking weight but HAS lost a lot of money, which doesn't make much sense for a sound horse with an increasing workload - he should be gaining muscle not loosing it. Especially with that amount of bucket feed.

As for rugging - do check you aren't over-rugging. My fully clipped lad is naked during the day and only lightly rugged at night now. He would be dripping in a mediumweight.

Can't echo the others enough. Get a vet out. He isn't right.


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## soulfull (2 April 2014)

The fact you say he seems tucked up together with weight and muscle loss suggest some sort of EPSM.  

I had a horse with it and he showed the same weight and muscle loss, although his was more symmetrical.


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## coralwings20 (2 April 2014)

Thanks guys - vet booked for Friday  Some photos taken 10 minutes ago:


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## Fides (2 April 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			Thanks guys - vet booked for Friday  Some photos taken 10 minutes ago:






















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It's just showing the ones from earlier...


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## coralwings20 (2 April 2014)




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## coralwings20 (2 April 2014)

why wont it link to the new photos? ggrr


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## Nugget La Poneh (2 April 2014)

In this Picture:







He is showing to be roach backed, could be something that doesn't normally cause an issue, but in my experience, roach backed invariably have ridden problems at some point. It could be however from pain and is causing him to hump.

The front feet however are what really, really concern me, the off fore looks like a horse that is suffering from chronic lami, which will in turn cause the issues you are causing. I personally would take off any grass, soak hay to within an inch of its life, stop all feed bar rinsed speedibeet and follow advise of the vet. That level of wastage is not possible in 2 weeks unless there is a serious issue.


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## ester (2 April 2014)

not sure as no good with photobucket only use facebook sorry! 

those saying it seems like a lot of feed - I think it's fair to say that one large horse might well require a different amount to another so not really comparable as you need to look at the horse you have.


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## HeresHoping (2 April 2014)

Really glad to see you are getting the vet out.    I thought it might be helpful to show you some picture of muscle wastage that occurred in quite a short space of time in two different horses, so you know we're not all jumping on you for nothing.  

First up, Rosie, a 10 yo 16.0hh KWPN mare. The second pic (not me riding) is taken about 6 weeks after the first.  It was discovered that she had bilateral hind suspensory tears in the lower branches.  Because it was bilateral lameness, her only real presentation was struggling to work correctly on 10m circles.  But you can see the muscle drop off on her rump is quite prominent, despite little change in work and increasing her food (it was end October time).











Then we have Spooks, a 7 yo  OTTB.  First pic - I'd had him 2 weeks and he'd been in work from the field (6 months off due to owner's pregnancy) for four weeks.  This was July time.  The second, third and fourth show progressive wastage from about two months on.  I had gradually increased the work but we were not yet doing more than 45 mins in the school, or an hour's gentle hacking.  Why?  Because he tried to kill me regularly and he became more and more reluctant to work into any contact at all.  I was tearing my hair out at the diminishing topline and dropping away of his quarters.  He was pts due to dangerous behaviour.  PM revealed he had shredded sacroiliac ligaments and a poorly healed fracture of the ilial shaft.






















Good luck with your boy.  I'll be thinking of you.  Really hoping it's something simply remedied.


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## coralwings20 (2 April 2014)

thanks for the advice, will try photos again:


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## coralwings20 (2 April 2014)

yes, its worked, I don't think it looks as bad as yesterday?!


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## Fides (2 April 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			yes, its worked, I don't think it looks as bad as yesterday?!
		
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The last one does


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## Nugget La Poneh (2 April 2014)

Well, that's a lot less alarming compared to the other shots! However, still showing wastage which shows that something isn't working properly.


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## *hic* (2 April 2014)

That's more what I was expecting to see 

So, how is he moving since the video you posted - same? worse?

And how has his management changed since you moved him?


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## coralwings20 (2 April 2014)

He was stabled at night before I got him but he is presently living out 24/7. This bottom problem occurred after he was fully clipped. I have only just increased his feed/hay to see if this also helps. I am going to change farrier as a few people have commented on how poorly he has been shod - anyone know a good farrier in the Newark (Notts) area?


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## Meowy Catkin (2 April 2014)

Nugget La Poneh said:



			In this Picture:


He is showing to be roach backed, could be something that doesn't normally cause an issue, but in my experience, roach backed invariably have ridden problems at some point. It could be however from pain and is causing him to hump.

The front feet however are what really, really concern me.
		
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I only see a notch between the sacral and lumbar vertebrae, like you often see on starved horses, but disappears with correct feeding and muscling. Once fully recovered their backs look normal again.

His hooves are not good and a new farrier is certainly needed if that's how his hooves normally look. I certainly can't diagnose laminitis from that photo.

ETA - just seen your new post. Good luck with finding a new farrier.


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## Spring Feather (2 April 2014)

Fides said:



			The last one does 

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Except it's the wrong side that's allegedly sunken.



jemima*askin said:



			That's more what I was expecting to see 

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Me too.


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## Goldenstar (2 April 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			He was stabled at night before I got him but he is presently living out 24/7. This bottom problem occurred after he was fully clipped. I have only just increased his feed/hay to see if this also helps. I am going to change farrier as a few people have commented on how poorly he has been shod - anyone know a good farrier in the Newark (Notts) area?
		
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Don't go changing a great load of things just yet .
Wait for the vet to see the horse in the flesh .
I do think based  on how you say the horse is behaving a vet visit is the way forward .
Going round in circles on here won't help the opinion of a professional on the ground will.


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## Wagtail (2 April 2014)

Looks lots better now he's standing straight.  But there is some asymmetry and wastage with the right side less developed. I agree with others regarding his feet. They are terribly long and he could well have had some low grade laminitis, especially as he was previously very overweight. Good luck in getting to the bottom of it OP. Please keep us posted.


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## cundlegreen (2 April 2014)

Has anybody else noticed that his "jumpers bump" is uneven?? My chiro says thats a sure sign that there's pelvic issues. Re the video, you say first it was taken two weeks ago, then tahat the same video was taken six months ago.WHAT THE.........!!


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## coralwings20 (2 April 2014)

You can double check when the video was taken - just check Elms farm website - horse is called Grey Justice  The week before he was at Trent Valley - I am thinking I am not fuelling the work he is in!


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## *hic* (2 April 2014)

Yup, I think I'd look carefully at his feed also he's always been bigger at the front than the back, have a think about his work - is it just that he's not actually working from behind, rather than that he CAN'T work from behind. I think you need an experienced eye on the ground.


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## Tiddlypom (2 April 2014)

He's still not standing square behind (right hind trailing) so although he looks a lot more even in the latest pics, IMHO it's not really possible to tell from them whether there is muscle wastage/asymmetry or not.  

Glad that you are getting the vet out, OP. It's time for an expert to see him in the flesh. Good luck with him.


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## debsflo (2 April 2014)

Wagtail said:



			Sorry, but there is something serious going on with his right quarters. That is some mega muscle wastage. Also, the way he is standing is very very suspect. Get the vet out and do not work him. That kind of muscle wastage indicates a fracture or major trauma going on.
		
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i thought major muscle wastage too. needs investigating..


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## Sugar_and_Spice (2 April 2014)

I haven't got much to add except to say that to all those saying the horse is getting a lot of food - he really isn't unless I'm reading it wrong. 2 scoops of Speedibeet and 3 of Happy Hoof I think was what the OP said and its split between several meals. If the Speedibeet is 2 scoops when wet that's not a lot. Speedibeet is relatively low energy. Happy Hoof is marketed as chaff suitable for laminitics. Plenty of horses struggle to live out 24/7 with a full clip, due to weightloss. I'm not saying there's nothing else wrong, just that feed/turnout may be an issue.


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## coralwings20 (2 April 2014)

any other feed fizzes him up! I have been doing some investigation today & have found out that he was bought & sold via Imperial horses a few years ago so I can only presume there must be something wrong with him previously!


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## Amymay (2 April 2014)

Did you have him vetted on purchase op?


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## stormox (2 April 2014)

You need to post a picture taken from exactly behind, with him standing square behind and the weight evenly distributed over both hind legs, not one foot sticking out like in your current pictures. It difficult to tell anything unless he's standing square.


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## ILuvCowparsely (2 April 2014)

Alan's mum said:



			OP is on line but not one reply to comments
		
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Opsie they been banned all greyed out.



OP  do a process of elimination - don't change too much or you wont know what works and what does not.  He has lost so much muscle on his quarters and across is sacrum,  it could be down lower.  One horsier I knew compensated a lot with one leg, lost loads muscle on the other and it turned out to be pain in the hock area on his wasted leg.

 Def ask you vet to do a full health check and ask if its OK to get a chiro to him.  The way he stands shows he is not comfortable somewhere and I would do it sooner than later and not ride or school him till you get results.
 Muscle wastage as we all know comes from muscles not being used for a good few months, I am guessing problem of pain is somewhere other than his top line.
  Nice looking horse though be nice to see update pictures when he is all sorted out


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## coralwings20 (2 April 2014)

will do - speedibeet/happy hoof isn't going to put weight on him so unsure what to feed that will gain weight without the fizziness!


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## ILuvCowparsely (2 April 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			will do - speedibeet/happy hoof isn't going to put weight on him so unsure what to feed that will gain weight without the fizziness!
		
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Speak to Alan and Page or D&H they have a Nutrition expert there to advise you.


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## Regandal (2 April 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			will do - speedibeet/happy hoof isn't going to put weight on him so unsure what to feed that will gain weight without the fizziness!
		
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  You could try micronized linseed, or Equijewel.


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## ester (2 April 2014)

definitely linseed, copra coolstance also a poss.


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## Greylegs (3 April 2014)

Not read right back through the thread, but has this muscle problem changed sides? OP have you flipped the pics somehow? Sorry if I've missed something....


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## LinzyD (3 April 2014)

Please let us know, out of interest, what the vet says. I have seen this sort of muscle wastage and asymetry before and the horse was still in full work, including jumping, and had a fractured pelvis.  (ETS NOT a horse of mine!)

Feet - yes as others have said.

Feeding - All horses are different in the same way that person A never stops eating and is stick thin and person B only has to look at a Mars bar to put on half a stone , so I don't think you can go by what anyone says on here. I have a 17.2h Hunter who looks in fabulous condition on half a scoop of Happy Hoof + ad lib forage, and a pony who needs up to 4 big feeds a day to keep him up to weight if he's in full work. 

Get the veterinary investigation and re-shoeing done first, then tackle the feeding in proportion to the work and his individual needs when you know that he is fully healthy and his feet are as they should be. 

Please keep us updated. It's intriguing.


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## Pigeon (3 April 2014)

So he's only started standing like that since he's been fully clipped? Could he just be cold? He looks tucked up and that can be any number of things, cold included. Or sore feet, arthritis, ulcers, and so on and so on. 

I agree with getting a vet out, just for peace of mind. Hopefully it's nothing serious. I would want a full lameness work up though, perhaps even x rays. Maybe it's an old injury that's healed but the compensation has caused asymmetry? I'm sure you've said already but I can't find it, how old is he? Maybe it's time to start thinking about joint supplements. I don't think it's a lot of food either, but certain things can cause sensitivities, so I'd be tempted to try him on ad lib hay (not haylage) and just chaff and oil until you've got some answers.

His hind end conformation isn't great, you just need to figure out if it's like that for a reason, or just 'him'. If vet gives you the all clear I would be looking at doing some physio and careful conditioning with him  Lots of hacking powering through in walk, hills, in hand work over raised poles and so on.


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## coralwings20 (3 April 2014)

tried to get him to stand square & this is another photo:








so much difference to the first photos?

thanks for all the advice


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## coralwings20 (3 April 2014)

& have changed vet to next Wedns as Rase do a free call out saving me £65.00  so will update then  found another farrier to sort his feet out but need to wait 3 weeks as money Is tight as only just had them done. BTW, no I didn't have him vetted & he is aged 11. He has high mileage as evented as a 4 year old followed by BSJA then hunting. His last home was an amazing one as all he did was hack/do a few pleasure rides for a year. The person she bought him from bought him from Imperial horses so either px or a market jobby due to an old injury. Wedns cannot come soon enough for me!!


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## julie111 (3 April 2014)

Good luck and keep us updated!


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## coralwings20 (3 April 2014)

Julie - can you notice a difference between the first photos to the last one taken today?


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## julie111 (3 April 2014)

Yes I can see a difference it doesn't look as bad but the muscle wasteage is showing on the other side in your latest picture.


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## coralwings20 (3 April 2014)

would anyone be doing any light work with him ie gentle walking? I am away this weekend so he will be chilling in the field scoffing his face


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## Amymay (3 April 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			would anyone be doing any light work with him ie gentle walking? I am away this weekend so he will be chilling in the field scoffing his face 

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Personally I wouldn't.


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## julie111 (3 April 2014)

No I wouldn't want to be doing anything with him until your vet has seen him!


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## lilly1 (3 April 2014)

Is this an April Fools joke?  Has he been photo shopped?
If not that is some major muscle wastage and he needs a vet.  I really hope its not a serious as it looks op.

Edited to say I've just saw the last pic which looks much more normal.  I'd still get the vet though.


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## coralwings20 (17 April 2014)




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## coralwings20 (17 April 2014)




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## Amymay (17 April 2014)

How did you get on with the vet?


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## coralwings20 (17 April 2014)

Yes, je is jusy needed more food & light work


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## Bobbly (17 April 2014)

His hips look unlevel to me in the last pics?


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## Amymay (17 April 2014)

coralwings20 said:



			Yes, je is jusy needed more food & light work 

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Come again?


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## Tiddlypom (17 April 2014)

He's still not standing square behind in the latest pics, so it is impossible to judge any possible asymmetry.


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## Booboos (18 April 2014)

Did you have the vet out?

If not, frankly this thread is a complete waste of everyone's time.


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## merlin12 (18 April 2014)

Either these photos taken from the rear have been seriously photo shopped ,or you need to call the vet ASAP. Does he really need to be rugged at the moment.?


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## Fides (18 April 2014)

merlin12 said:



			Does he really need to be rugged at the moment.?
		
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Horse looks fully clipped. Mine were rugged last night as when I did last chacks at 23:45 it was minus 2...


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