# Can you make a realistic living off Dressage?



## Rider12 (24 January 2017)

Title says it all. We all know there is big money in Showjumping, But what about Dressage? Although I'm sure Charolette Dujardin gets a healthy pay check from clinics and Kingsland.


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## Shay (24 January 2017)

I don't think there is big money in any discipline!  Yes there are some high prize pots in Sj - but to get there  there are an awful lot of prize posts which don't cover your entry fees and long years of building a reputation and a string to compete.  

Yes CD probably does get a fairly reasonable pay check - as I would imagine does Carl Hester etc.  But they are very much in the minority, even of those who have represented us at the Olympics.

There is an old saying about how to make a little money with horses - start with a lot of money.....


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## dressage_diva (24 January 2017)

I think dressage is like the other disciplines (SJ and Eventing), professionals make their money through related activities - buying/selling horses, holding clinics,  teaching regular clients, hiring out their facilities, having full liveries on their yards etc. Those activities help them pay the bills.


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## Goldenstar (24 January 2017)

Many people make their living from teaching dressage.
If you are good and well trained about it's equivalent to being a school teacher .


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## Pinkvboots (24 January 2017)

I know a few people that do high level dressage and compete other people's horses and some of the horses are at their yard, so they get paid to ride compete and they also teach so I suppose that is a living made on dressage but not sure how much they make wouldn't have thought they are rolling in it.


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## Goldenstar (24 January 2017)

Goldenstar said:



			Many people make their living from teaching dressage.
If you are good and well trained about it's equivalent to being a school teacher .
		
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Really should add without the paid holidays the sick pay and the pension .


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## Cortez (24 January 2017)

No.


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## bluebellfreddy (24 January 2017)

You can "live off" dressage, as long as you are happy to make it your life. Horses are not a job they are a way of life. You will forever have very little money, you certainly don't make the money from competitions. The money only comes from the 'extras', lessons, livery, selling horses to a certain extent but only if you are very luck.


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## milliepops (24 January 2017)

bluebellfreddy said:



			but only if you are very luck.
		
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and very good.



Shay said:



			There is an old saying about how to make a little money with horses - start with a lot of money.....
		
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^^ lol, this!  I think the problem for the average competent person is that you need facilities to be able to take in liveries, sales horses, etc, and for most of us not lucky enough to be born into a horsey family with land, that means renting or having a significant mortgage. So you need to have the lolly upfront in order to secure a base.  And then work your socks off paying for it.  I think at the top levels riders must be dependent on sponsorship to prop them up quite a bit too.


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## ycbm (24 January 2017)

Goldenstar said:



			Really should add without the paid holidays the sick pay and the pension .
		
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And working every weekend and a lot of early mornings and evenings to teach people who work. I wouldn't want to do either job


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## milliepops (24 January 2017)

ycbm said:



			And working every weekend and a lot of early mornings and evenings to teach people who work. I wouldn't want to do either job 

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Oh I wouldn't be a school teacher (my mum teaches maths at secondary school so seen what that's like) but I would so love to work with horses again, it's the one time of my life that I leapt out of bed looking forward to each long exhausting day  just couldn't pay the bills doing it.


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## crabbymare (24 January 2017)

not easy in this country but if you lived in europe and got qualified it is a lot easier there as they treat riders (and grooms) as professionals which is a lot easier. If you want to make a living from dressage you need to be seen to be good with a competition record with different horses and types of horses plus a yard to work from. transport for several horses and good contacts. that takes a fair bit of money to have behind you so the only other way is to find a dressage yard and get a job as a work rider/groom and hope that you can get to the point where you can ride their young horses at competitions. last week I posted about a friend who turned down a job because of her partner. the job was in europe and would have had a small wage but with the possibility of earning more if other people in the area wanted her to ride. own rooms. use of an older car. free keep for her own horse and her partner would have been able to go with her. work the riding side would have been starting young horses taking them to shows and progressing them through the levels. the position is now filled so not an advert but it gives you an idea of how she would have started if she had gone there. to get that sort of job you need to prove that you are capable of bringing a horse to their medium level (am here) and to be able to compete at a good standard in elementary classes. it all comes down to either money to start up that you can lose if it does not work or a lot of hard work and the very good luck to find a job where you eventually make good money.


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## Cortez (24 January 2017)

Firstly, define "realistic": if you mean earning enough to pay a mortgage, run a car, support a family, pay all the bills, then no, I don't think you can make a living purely from dressage. I've worked with dressage horses all my life (late 50's now, and still make part of my earnings with horses), and have enjoyed it immensely, but at no time have I ever been even moderately well off. I run a business now that includes horses, but the vast majority of our income comes from the other side of things.


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## Goldenstar (24 January 2017)

ycbm said:



			And working every weekend and a lot of early mornings and evenings to teach people who work. I wouldn't want to do either job 

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Yes but working always requires compromise and many people do early mornings that's not exclusive to teaching dressage ,when my OH was working  4am starts were normal .
I can think of several people I know making earning considerable sums teaching .
In fact IMO is a way superior way of earning a living than trying to earn money offering  livery and training horses for people .
Your Overheads can be a car and your insurance and continuing professional development .
It is of course hard work but then does anyone know people earning a good income without having to make an effort .


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## Sussexbythesea (24 January 2017)

If you've got a good reputation for teaching dressage I think you can make quite a decent income. The one I used to have charges £60 for 45minutes. At a clinic day she would make a fair whack without much investment. 

Also most people can't pay a mortgage on one salary so that's not exclusive to horse jobs and school teachers might get a pension but they have to contribute nearly 10% of their salary to it and won't get it until they retire.


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## Goldenstar (24 January 2017)

Sussexbythesea said:



			If you've got a good reputation for teaching dressage I think you can make quite a decent income. The one I used to have charges £60 for 45minutes. At a clinic day she would make a fair whack without much investment. 

Also most people can't pay a mortgage on one salary so that's not exclusive to horse jobs and school teachers might get a pension but they have to contribute nearly 10% of their salary to it and won't get it until they retire.
		
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It won't be a pension if you got it before you retired would it and it's right that you contribute to your own pension whatever you do .
but my point was the cost of a equivalent privately obtained pension would be huge .


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## rachk89 (24 January 2017)

Not really I don't think. Its very difficult at least and hasn't even Carl Hester said they basically just break even? I might be quoting another rider to be honest I can't remember who it was. 

I would love to work with horses as a job, I wouldn't even mind the early starts etc but I can't live off that sadly.


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## Goldenstar (24 January 2017)

rachk89 said:



			Not really I don't think. Its very difficult at least and hasn't even Carl Hester said they basically just break even? I might be quoting another rider to be honest I can't remember who it was. 

I would love to work with horses as a job, I wouldn't even mind the early starts etc but I can't live off that sadly.
		
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But teaching dressage for a living is not the same as pouring money into a world class training yard .


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## SO1 (24 January 2017)

I don't think it would be possible from just competing as the prize money and the fees for producing and competing the horses would probably not be enough.

However if you are not just a talented rider but a good business person and can also teach then you probably can make money from teaching, producing and selling horses and sponsorship deals, and demonstrations. Dressage is becoming very popular with those who do have money to spend and is seen as quite safe compared to other disciplines. There is a good market for dressage horses that can be easily ridden by amateurs and also lessons from sympathetic instructors.  A lot of the top instructors can charge £1 a minute for lessons which is actually quite a decent amount. 

I think the difficulty is getting to the point where you are in demand as an instructor or having the income to invest into young horses to bring on and sell. It is certainly not an easy way to make money.


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## rachk89 (24 January 2017)

Goldenstar said:



			But teaching dressage for a living is not the same as pouring money into a world class training yard .
		
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Even then you aren't going to earn a great amount unless you are very good and very popular. But you do then have the worry of what if you become injured? Its not like other jobs where you get sick pay. If you break your leg that's you out of work for a good while and no money coming in potentially. It is a risky business. I do know of some trainers though who won't get on the horses their students have just incase they get injured.


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## Cortez (25 January 2017)

Sussexbythesea said:



			If you've got a good reputation for teaching dressage I think you can make quite a decent income. The one I used to have charges £60 for 45minutes. At a clinic day she would make a fair whack without much investment. 

Also most people can't pay a mortgage on one salary so that's not exclusive to horse jobs and school teachers might get a pension but they have to contribute nearly 10% of their salary to it and won't get it until they retire.
		
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Without much investment? You can't be serious! It takes a lifetime of time, effort, talent and pure hard graft to know enough to train horses and riders with any success and integrity. In order to really know what you're doing you will have had to travel, invest, and make enormous sacrifices along the way. £1 a minute? It doesn't work that way.


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## Goldenstar (25 January 2017)

rachk89 said:



			Even then you aren't going to earn a great amount unless you are very good and very popular. But you do then have the worry of what if you become injured? Its not like other jobs where you get sick pay. If you break your leg that's you out of work for a good while and no money coming in potentially. It is a risky business. I do know of some trainers though who won't get on the horses their students have just incase they get injured.
		
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That's no different to any job those who are best do best .
It's no different from any other self employed profession you have to make provision for illness and accident .
It's very understandable people don't want to get on horses .


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## Casey76 (25 January 2017)

Case in point:

My instructor normally makes approx. 200&#8364; per week from me through schooling and teaching fees.  She has 8 regular clients at my yard who have weekly or twice weekly lessons at 40&#8364; per hour/ 20&#8364; half hour.

For the last 6 weeks the school has been unusable as it has been frozen - that is a huge amount of income to lose, and that is just from one yard.


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## Sussexbythesea (25 January 2017)

Cortez said:



			Without much investment? You can't be serious! It takes a lifetime of time, effort, talent and pure hard graft to know enough to train horses and riders with any success and integrity. In order to really know what you're doing you will have had to travel, invest, and make enormous sacrifices along the way. £1 a minute? It doesn't work that way.
		
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I meant materially ie all  she needs now really to get out and about to teach is a car, not an expensive yard or a building or to buy horses that may or may not sell on. I agree about investment in developing skill but most people on higher incomes have invested in training e.g. A degree. She is a fab instructor and has worked hard to achieve it and thoroughly deserves it but working hard is not peculiar to the horse world. 

I'm also well aware of the working free-lance costs and risks thank you.


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## ester (25 January 2017)

Sell matchy matchup?


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## ljohnsonsj (25 January 2017)

You'll never earn, or even come close to breaking even with money from competing. Be it in any discipline. The money in showjumping is made in the background. Selling young horses and often producing and selling their top rides.


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## Goldenstar (25 January 2017)

ljohnsonsj said:



			You'll never earn, or even come close to breaking even with money from competing. Be it in any discipline. The money in showjumping is made in the background. Selling young horses and often producing and selling their top rides.
		
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Yes I agree ,and I think that teaching represents a much better way to earn a living you don't have the overheads and risks of buying and producing there's nothing to stop a trainer having a nice horse or two to compete if that's what they want .
I bet if you went into the books of many yards the teaching would be keeping the show on the road .


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## ljohnsonsj (25 January 2017)

Goldenstar said:



			Yes I agree ,and I think that teaching represents a much better way to earn a living you don't have the overheads and risks of buying and producing there's nothing to stop a trainer having a nice horse or two to compete if that's what they want .
I bet if you went into the books of many yards the teaching would be keeping the show on the road .
		
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Certainly. After all it's the only real 'consistent' income. Horses can break/not sell/ not produce to a good enough standard all the time. Very risky game this horse one!


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## rachk89 (25 January 2017)

Goldenstar said:



			That's no different to any job those who are best do best .
It's no different from any other self employed profession you have to make provision for illness and accident .
It's very understandable people don't want to get on horses .
		
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No its no different in terms of to succeed you have to be the best. But self employed people who don't have to work outside aren't at a loss when its snows. Riding instructors will be if their students dont have an indoor school and even then some people can't be bothered riding. Case in point of what Casey said, 6 weeks income lost. How many people can take that kind of hit on a regular basis? I couldn't I need my income. Thats what its for if I didn't need it I wouldn't work.

Never said it wasn't understandable that they don't want to ride the horses either. That was kind of my point. If they do ride them they could get hurt. I know of more instructors that will get on and ride than ones who won't. They put their wages at risk by doing so but that is their choice.


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## Orangehorse (25 January 2017)

From what I have seen most professional dressage riders don't ride their own horses, they get people to buy them for them.
The big money is bringing on and selling horses, I am amazed at what people will pay for a dressage horse, considering that there is no prize money to be won.

The hard part is getting to the standard when all that will happen.  So the well known names will have a yard where they will bring on, buy, sell and teach, even if they have to pay rent for the yard.  

I suppose locally if you get a good reputation for riding and/or coaching and your pupils, horse or riders, become successful then you will get approached from people to either teach them or teach their horses.


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