# Are "true" gents heavy weight hunters really that hard to find?



## Hovis_and_SidsMum (18 November 2009)

A friends husband usually borrows another friends horse to hunt.
He's a big tall guy weighing about 16.5 stone.
Unfortunately the horse is out for this season and he's on the hunt (pardon the pun) for another horse.
Can he as heck find one that can carry that his weight and height.  He's even looking at buying but can't find anything.
Are they really that rare a comodity? 
What kind of money will he have to spend to find something?
Everything he's looked at that was ok height wise wouldn't take his weight.


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## Eira (18 November 2009)

My 'boss' has 3 of them . 
They aren't impossible to find but you are looking at the 7.5-10k mark (from what we have found , but then they are required to be suitable for FM too !)


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## Ditchjumper2 (18 November 2009)

Unfortunately like any horse, when you don't want one they are about, when you are desparate there is nothing. That's how I ended up with our last one. Bought it cos I liked him even though didn't need another!


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## runaway (18 November 2009)

How well can your friends husband ride? I believe that although a man may be "heavy" if they are good riders then a horse will carry them better than a poor lighter rider. Does that make sense?

My OH's old mare is only 16hh and he's 13/14st and she'd carry him no problem hunting all day. She's CB x TB and is a tough old cookie and riding every day back then my OH was a decent rider. Would this chap be any good?  http://www.horsemart.co.uk/advert/6_yrs_16_2_hh_black_irish_draught_x_west_sussex/74402

Bit pricey but there are a few more on there for less money and I'm sure several of them would carry 16.5st.


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## Starbucks (18 November 2009)

What do you mean "he's even looking at buying".. it's not like one is just going to turn up on his door step for free is is! 

If he wants a quality one I think they are hard to find  or a lot of money anyway.  Im sure he could get one if he was willing to cough up enough cash!  I think people seem to complain a lot about not being able to find the perfect horse but they turns out they are expecting to get one on loan/pay bugger all for one.


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## Hovis_and_SidsMum (18 November 2009)

Sorry I phrased that wrong!!  I meant that he wasn't considering buying one before as he always borrowed one for the season but he now accepts he will have to buy to get his mitts on what he wants


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## kcinks (18 November 2009)

Well I am hoping I have bred one this year!  His dam is gypsy cob x shire (16hh) and sire is polish warmblood.  I have to say I think he is one of the best foals I have ever bred and I don't know how I am going to wait for him to grow up!


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## spacefaer (18 November 2009)

A friends husband usually borrows another friends horse to hunt.
He's a big tall guy weighing about 16.5 stone.
Unfortunately the horse is out for this season and he's on the hunt (pardon the pun) for another horse.
Can he as heck find one that can carry that his weight and height.  He's even looking at buying but can't find anything.
Are they really that rare a comodity? 
What kind of money will he have to spend to find something?
Everything he's looked at that was ok height wise wouldn't take his weight.
		
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Yes - they are rare - to get sufficient quality to go and stay all day with a weightcarrying ability is not easy.  They stopped breeding them in Ireland around the time of the ban and went down the sport horse route, with more WB blood - so you get the height but lose the bone. Now they're starting to breed them again - but they're only 3 yr old, some 4 yr olds..... 

We just sold one and were inundated with calls for him.  

You also have to remember that someone who weights 16.5 stone will actually ride at about 18 stone with all clothes and tack - that's a lot to carry. Depending on how the chap rides also has an effect as more novicey people ride "heavier" than more experienced people with better balance.


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## MrWoof (18 November 2009)

Yes - and they usually do cost a lot!!
I have a couple of friends who "weigh heavy - but ride light". 
I also know someone who is seriously heavy - and rides the same way. Could not get his back end out of the saddle if you paid him! There are some about, which do not cost a fortune. Just remember "handsome is as handsome does". Good Hunters do not have to look pretty!


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## Steeleydan (19 November 2009)

They are about but at an absolute premium!! I think he would have to think about spending upwards of 15K to get a made hunter that carries weight, the are like "rocking horse [****]"
May I suggest your friend slims down and loses a couple of stone hence this may make the search easier, plus if he weighs 16.5 stone stripped naked on the scales you always have to add at least a stone and a half for clothes and tack, plus if he is novicey they ride heavier, your man will be riding at round the 20 stone mark, and that will have to be a serious horse to carry that weight.
He could look on the internet at Whitegate stables, Joe Murphy has a lot of heavy weight hunters for sale, a Joe is a big man, but is a very good rider and wouldnt sit heavy, give them a ring.


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## joe_carby (19 November 2009)

i know of a big irish draught that was for sale not so long ago that would have carried his weight i have whipped in off it  before now and it is v cheap but can be abit nappy hacking so doesnt go well with the person who bopught it as she is rather in expierienced


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## JanetGeorge (21 November 2009)

Yes - they are rare - to get sufficient quality to go and stay all day with a weightcarrying ability is not easy.  They stopped breeding them in Ireland around the time of the ban and went down the sport horse route, with more WB blood - so you get the height but lose the bone. Now they're starting to breed them again - but they're only 3 yr old, some 4 yr olds.....
		
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Actually - the hunting ban here had nothing to do with it.  10-15 year ago the price for pure-bred IDs was low, and MANY breeders were putting their good RID mares to TBs - because the foals were worth more!  At the same time, the emphasis in ID breeding was more on performance than on type.  It still is - reports from the Cavan sales suggests there are very few youngsters coming through with what we'd call GOOD bone!

The Irish breeders lost bone and type in their IDs - and because the ID breeders DON'T have control of their studbook (HSI does) the situation is likely to get worse before it gets better!  HSI doesn't give a rat's a*se about producing HW hunters - it wants to produce performance horses.  And everything GOOD about the ID is likely to be sacrificed along the way.

The BEST IDs are now being bred in the UK and USA - horses who retain the bone and 'type' you want in a quality HW.  MANY stallions graded RID in Ireland in the past 10 years (hell - the last 20 years!) have barely 9" of bone!

I can't put pics in this forum - but copy &amp; paste the links if youwant to see what I mean!

This chap graded in 1990 with just 8.66 inches of bone!

http://www.irishdraught.ie/images/stories/stallions/stallions_tipperary_crannaghhero.jpg

As compared to this chap - bred and graded in England in 1994 with over 10" of bone.

http://www.irish-draught.net/image/obj94geo151pg1p6.png

But even the second stallion (proudly owned by me!) CAN'T produce HW hunters from the type of pure-bred mares being bred in Ireland now.

For example:
http://www.irish-draught.net/image/obj416geo490pg14p6.png

Now I liked this mare enough to import her as a 3 year old, but she's NOT a producer of HW hunters - even to my big stallion!  Yet she was 2nd in a VERY strong 2yo filly class at the Irish National Breed Show.  She has 9.25" of bone (more than a lot of RID stallions in Ireland!) - but she's 17hh.  She produces very good, big Middleweights!

This is the 'traditional' RID mare (bred in Scotland) - only 9.25" of bone too - but she's 15.2hh!  And look at the bone on that foal!

http://www.irish-draught.net/image/obj293geo369pg7p6.png

She's the type to produce HW hunters - her first filly by my stallion had 9.25" at 2years old.  Her next foal (a colt) is 17 hh with 10" of bone as a 4yo - and still growing!

Even if the Irish breeders get their stud book back and regain 'control' of what is being graded, it will take years for the breed in Ireland to recover from the damage that has been done.


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## JanetGeorge (21 November 2009)

He could look on the internet at Whitegate stables, Joe Murphy has a lot of heavy weight hunters for sale, a Joe is a big man, but is a very good rider and wouldnt sit heavy, give them a ring.
		
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Actually, he's gota LOT of good Middleweights - but there's nothing there that would carry 17 stone all day in the hunting field IMHO  Even the big purebreds are either a bit short on bone, or a bit longbehind the saddle (or both) to be TRUE Heavyweights.


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## marmalade76 (21 November 2009)

Whats your stallion called?


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## JanetGeorge (21 November 2009)

Whats your stallion called?
		
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Lady's Tralee Raj.  (or Sexy boy for short! :grin


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## spacefaer (21 November 2009)

We were at Goresbridge last big sale - there was one HWT ID there - very smart, compact, chunky but quality - just over 17hh and 6 yrs old - 9.5" bone

We have 2 ISH HWTs at home - both with 10" bone, both 17.2, quality with huge jump and good rides... both of them up to weight... both of them SF x ISH....

(can't put pics on sorry  )


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## beckiebeckyboo (21 November 2009)

we have three at the moment, they alll hunted today, the smallest is 17hh the biggest 17-3hh and hes a big boy!! dont know how many times we got asked about them today, even ended up with someone else on one as they were having problems with there own much smaller one!!! the good ones rnt cheap, but if your friends serious about one, pm  me and i can give you the number of where we got ours from


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## marmalade76 (21 November 2009)

Whats your stallion called?
		
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Lady's Tralee Raj.  (or Sexy boy for short! :grin

Click to expand...

And he definatly is!


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## humph (21 November 2009)

Ooh, I know of one. 

2 years ago we bought a horse from this couple and it's turned out to be the best hunter my husband has ever had - he's fieldmastered off it every week since and it's never put a foot wrong.

The one they're selling is a field masters horse, 18hh, I believe about 9 or 10 and jumps anything, a serious operator.  He's gutted to be selling it. I think they're asking £8k - am trying desperately to find the ad to put a link on but can't find it at the mo.  The best thing is the couple selling are so decent and lovely that I would trust them impeccably. They've become friends since we bought my husbands horse from them.

It was a week or two ago that they told me they were selling so I wouldn't be surprised if he's sold.

pm me if you're interested


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## yeeharider (2 December 2009)

i have one if you want to pm me


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## Doormouse (2 December 2009)

That was a really interesting post about the Irish Draft breed and how they are loosing the bone and quality.  I have never been involved with ID's but having judged quite a bit I appreciate good conformation in any breed and the difference in those 2 stallions is astonishing!  I wasn't aware of how weak the breed was becoming, very sad because they have been a cornerstone for so much good breeding and producing many excellent horses that do everything.
Can the ID society not do something to control the grading process or perhaps start their own independent grading which would gain in stature as better horses were bred over the next few years.


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## Araminta (5 December 2009)

A friends husband usually borrows another friends horse to hunt.
He's a big tall guy weighing about 16.5 stone.
Unfortunately the horse is out for this season and he's on the hunt (pardon the pun) for another horse.
Can he as heck find one that can carry that his weight and height.  He's even looking at buying but can't find anything.
Are they really that rare a comodity? 
What kind of money will he have to spend to find something?
Everything he's looked at that was ok height wise wouldn't take his weight.
		
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I have one  :


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## skewby (6 December 2009)

QR

Interesting thread!  I have to say, my lad has generated a lot of interest from the men out hunting.  "How old?  How big?  Is he a hireling?  Have you got any more like that at home?"  He's 16hh Suffolk part bred, God knows how much bone exactly, never measured, but about as much as you get.  He doesn't look much but he's a bit of a freak in that despite the heavy frame and short legs, he's incredibly powerful, jumps like a stag and is weirdly fast, over any ground.  My vet calls him "musclebound"!!

The interest never starts at the meet...usually after the first gallop.

I know you can't post pics in here but these show how hw he is, if you can be bothered to copy n paste into your browser!!  

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b399/cies/Franky_123.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b399/cies/Franky_044.jpg


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