# Hunt going through farms/livery yards with horses



## pixie (26 November 2015)

Would you expect the horses to have been stabled?  What would you think if they were in the fields going ballistic while you rode past?


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## meesha (26 November 2015)

We have ridden through fields with horses still in, everyone is very quiet and we walk!  Horses trot around a bit but were fine.  We have also passed stables and fields and again horses on those yards may trot around with tail up in air if in fields but not seen one going mental !


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## pixie (26 November 2015)

And if you were riding alongside the fields where the horses were going mental, would that feel ok?  Would you presume that the owners are ok with it, or something else?


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## Goldenstar (26 November 2015)

We hunt past fields of horses regularity .
If I saw them galloping around I would just think they where being horses .
I am conflicted myself with my own , I am never sure that in is better than out .


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## pixie (26 November 2015)

So it would never occur to you that you did not have permission to be on the land?


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## Goldenstar (26 November 2015)

pixie said:



			So it would never occur to you that you did not have permission to be on the land?
		
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Of course not because we don't go on land where we don't have the right to be .


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## pixie (26 November 2015)

Goldenstar said:



			Of course not because we don't go on land where we don't have the right to be .
		
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AHAHAHAHA!!!

Can you tell that I'm pissed off that the local hunt has once again gone onto land that they have been told not to, despite being reminded a few days ago?


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## Goldenstar (26 November 2015)

pixie said:



			AHAHAHAHA!!!

Can you tell that I'm pissed off that the local hunt has once again gone onto land that they have been told not to, despite being reminded a few days ago?
		
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No I thought you where asking a question you wanted an answer to .
Contact the secretary of the hunt and complain .
If you own the sporting rights to the land you can stop them .


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## pixie (26 November 2015)

I'm sorry, but if they are told by the landowners that they are not welcome, then they should not be on the property.  I'm not sure what complaining to the hunt secretary would help?  From experience, all it would result in would be an empty apology, and then they'll just do it again in the future.  Probably alternate to another neighbour's property (again) next year before returning to ours.

Not to mention the foul and abusive language received from followers when asked to leave.


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## Goldenstar (26 November 2015)

pixie said:



			I'm sorry, but if they are told by the landowners that they are not welcome, then they should not be on the property.  I'm not sure what complaining to the hunt secretary would help?  From experience, all it would result in would be an empty apology, and then they'll just do it again in the future.  Probably alternate to another neighbour's property (again) next year before returning to ours.

Not to mention the foul and abusive language received from followers when asked to leave.
		
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Then just enjoy your rant .


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## pixie (26 November 2015)

And that is the hunt attitude, isn't it?  You just don't care.  No wonder your numbers of supporters are falling.


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## ycbm (26 November 2015)

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/d...iscrimination/taking-action-about-harassment/

Repeat offences are harassment and you can take out a civil injunction to prevent them doing it again. If they break the injunction they then commit a criminal offence and can be prosecuted.


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## Orca (26 November 2015)

pixie said:



			I'm sorry, but if they are told by the landowners that they are not welcome, then they should not be on the property.  I'm not sure what complaining to the hunt secretary would help?  From experience, all it would result in would be an empty apology, and then they'll just do it again in the future.  Probably alternate to another neighbour's property (again) next year before returning to ours.

Not to mention the foul and abusive language received from followers when asked to leave.
		
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Have you reported them for trespass (and criminal damage, if they have caused any) and for their aggressive behaviour? I wouldn't bother with the secretary of you've been ignored before. They should absolutely not be where they have no permission to be.


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## Judgemental (26 November 2015)

Anybody who rides through a field with loose horses, especially horses they don't know and horses that don't know those coming through the field, are complete and total idiots and fools. Also horses that are 'wired' because of the hounds and horn.

We have one particular horse who would automatically give any strange horse 'both barrels' and any horse that is being ridden, cannot take evasive action as it would do when loose.

Stupid stupid of the  greatest magnitude.

Frankly any Field Master who took the Field through loose horses and somebody was kicked, that Field Master should be sued for every thing she or he is worth.


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## popsdosh (26 November 2015)

Judgemental I dont think that was the case in point.

If its private land and they have been told, it is tresspass and can be dealt with by way of an injunction which will be easy to obtain once you have that any person breaking it can be arrested immediately by the police.
However if there is any right of way you wont be able to stop them.
Another way maybe if they always take the same route put signs up as a reminder as in the heat of a day some field masters can get forgetful. I wouldnt be calling the secretary I would call the senior master. 
However I suspect theres a little more to this !


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## Goldenstar (26 November 2015)

pixie said:



			And that is the hunt attitude, isn't it?  You just don't care.  No wonder your numbers of supporters are falling.
		
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Are you addressing that to me ?
If so it's a bit like blaming me for people who speed just because I have a car .
I can only speak for the hunt who we hunt with and they take enormous care to make sure they don't go where they have no permission .
We also have no issue with follower numbers .
I just find these stories so alien to how it works round here .


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## Judgemental (26 November 2015)

popsdosh said:



			Judgemental I dont think that was the case in point.

If its private land and they have been told, it is tresspass and can be dealt with by way of an injunction which will be easy to obtain once you have that any person breaking it can be arrested immediately by the police.
However if there is any right of way you wont be able to stop them.
Another way maybe if they always take the same route put signs up as a reminder as in the heat of a day some field masters can get forgetful. I wouldnt be calling the secretary I would call the senior master. 
However I suspect theres a little more to this !
		
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Tresspass, Injunction, Private Land, Rights of Way. 

Don't be ridiculous, one simply does not ride through loose horses.

I know there are some people who post on this forum who regard their horses as anthropomorphic, however I would be interested to know of any horse that understands issues of 'rights of way' as it gives the nearest ridden horse passing through the field a good kicking.


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## popsdosh (26 November 2015)

Judgemental said:



			Tresspass, Injunction, Private Land, Rights of Way. 

Don't be ridiculous, one simply does not ride through loose horses.

I know there are some people who post on this forum who regard their horses as anthropomorphic, however I would be interested to know of any horse that understands issues of 'rights of way' as it gives the nearest ridden horse passing through the field a good kicking.
		
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But nowhere has the OP stated they were riding through loose horses . I merely assumed you had maybe not read it correctly . The op is merely trying to reinforce the fact they do not want the hunt on their land ,in which case the legal route is a logical one if the Hunt ignores them.


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## Doormouse (26 November 2015)

pixie said:



			And if you were riding alongside the fields where the horses were going mental, would that feel ok?  Would you presume that the owners are ok with it, or something else?
		
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I have experienced this the other way round in that our local hunt came past our field with our youngsters in that were going spare (I hadn't been told they would be in the area) and I must admit that I would have appreciated it if the 'field' could have just walked the length of my field as opposed to galloped but these things happen I guess.


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## Doormouse (26 November 2015)

Goldenstar said:



			Then just enjoy your rant .
		
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Hang on a minute, that was a little unfair. I have been hearing recently far too many reports such as this and have even experienced it first hand (my land lord has a shoot and therefore asks that they do not hunt on the land during the shooting season). I have hunted all my life and am a staunch supporter but I am concerned that too many packs are being gung ho about this and not making the effort to stay off land that they have been asked not to go on. I don't know if this is because many hunts now have quite a few masters and the messages are getting lost in translation or if they are just genuinely not bothering. If it is the latter then I am very sad especially at a time that hunting needs good publicity not bad. 

I appreciate that when people ask a pack not come on their land it can often be very frustrating but I have always believed that one should apply the principle 'softly, softly' and if you respect peoples wishes the first time you can go back and ask again another time, simply asking if just hounds and the hunt staff can cross.


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## pixie (26 November 2015)

Yes, as well as horses, we also have a shoot on the land.  *I* don't even ride on the areas of the farm where the pheasants are during shooting season (and liveries are not allowed at any time of year).  Yet yesterday the hunt just went straight through our woodlands, right next to where some of the pheasant pens and feeders are.


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## EQUIDAE (26 November 2015)

There's not really any excuse for it 'in the heat of the moment' when trails are now laid. Surely if you are following a preplanned trail there is no risk of this happening?


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## Doormouse (26 November 2015)

pixie said:



			Yes, as well as horses, we also have a shoot on the land.  *I* don't even ride on the areas of the farm where the pheasants are during shooting season (and liveries are not allowed at any time of year).  Yet yesterday the hunt just went straight through our woodlands, right next to where some of the pheasant pens and feeders are.
		
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I have the same thing, I never ride down the back track from when the pheasants are first put down until the end of the season. Fair enough, my land lord pays a lot of money to have his shoot and there is no need for me to disturb the pheasants.


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## Doormouse (26 November 2015)

EQUIDAE said:



			There's not really any excuse for it 'in the heat of the moment' when trails are now laid. Surely if you are following a preplanned trail there is no risk of this happening?
		
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This is a tricky one because the trails are laid early in the day and as with any scent (laid or moving animal) the weather, ground conditions etc do have an affect on it. For instance if the wind is strong, the scent may have blown some way off course and hounds following it might end up in the wrong place. To make hunting as realistic for hounds and the field as possible without chasing a live quarry, no one except the trail layer or the human for blood hounds, knows where the trail goes and so often should a scent have blown off the original course, the huntsman is not necessarily going to be aware of this. However, he should know where he is allowed and where he is not and should hounds find themselves on land they have been asked not to go on then the huntsman should collect them as quickly as possible and try and find the true trail.


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## Orca (26 November 2015)

Doormouse said:



			Hang on a minute, that was a little unfair. I have been hearing recently far too many reports such as this and have even experienced it first hand (my land lord has a shoot and therefore asks that they do not hunt on the land during the shooting season). I have hunted all my life and am a staunch supporter but I am concerned that too many packs are being gung ho about this and not making the effort to stay off land that they have been asked not to go on. I don't know if this is because many hunts now have quite a few masters and the messages are getting lost in translation or if they are just genuinely not bothering. If it is the latter then I am very sad especially at a time that hunting needs good publicity not bad. 

I appreciate that when people ask a pack not come on their land it can often be very frustrating but I have always believed that one should apply the principle 'softly, softly' and if you respect peoples wishes the first time you can go back and ask again another time, simply asking if just hounds and the hunt staff can cross.
		
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Well said. I don't hunt but it's refreshing to hear the voice of reason from someone who does. Closing ranks and defending poor behaviour isn't the way forwards.


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## pixie (26 November 2015)

I agree, I am pleasantly surprised by Doormouse's response.  I'm sure that if more hunt people had this attitude then they would have more support, especially from landowners.


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## Alec Swan (26 November 2015)

pixie said:



			Would you expect the horses to have been stabled?  What would you think if they were in the fields going ballistic while you rode past?
		
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Tell me this;  If a local riding school or trekking centre were to pass your horses,  and your horses went 'ballistic' (your word!),  would you still be as annoyed as you seem to be?  We often have others ride past our paddocked horses, then ours often fly about,  tails in the air and have a bit of a yea-hah.  No harm has ever been done.

Why not turn up at the next meet,  avail yourself of good fun and good company,  and enjoy yourself?  Reading your further thoughts,  I'm left with the impression that you'd prefer a good whinge.  Sorry,  but that's just the impression that you give.

Alec.


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## Fiona (26 November 2015)

Lots of horses pass my field Alec, from neightbours hacking to driving horses, and our two mares never do more than jog to the gate to get a better view.

The last two times we had the hunt pass though.....  Horses jumped out over a metal gate (with electric offset) and galloped loose down the road crossing main road before they were caught.  Perhaps this is because they have both previously hunted, but certainly completely different scenarios.

I do feel its common courtesy for the hunt to notify farmers and landowners in the area they are going to cross, so they can make arrangements for their stock.  Then most likely everyone will be happy..

Fiona


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## Orca (26 November 2015)

Alec Swan said:



			Tell me this;  If a local riding school or trekking centre were to pass your horses,  and your horses went 'ballistic' (your word!),  would you still be as annoyed as you seem to be?  We often have others ride past our paddocked horses, then ours often fly about,  tails in the air and have a bit of a yea-hah.  No harm has ever been done.

Why not turn up at the next meet,  avail yourself of good fun and good company,  and enjoy yourself?  Reading your further thoughts,  I'm left with the impression that you'd prefer a good whinge.  Sorry,  but that's just the impression that you give.

Alec.
		
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To be fair, most (if not all) other rider groups have the sense and decency to stay off of private land unless invited.


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## Tiddlypom (26 November 2015)

pixie said:



			Would you expect the horses to have been stabled?  What would you think if they were in the fields going ballistic while you rode past?
		
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Whilst I think that it is crazy to keep horses turned out when the hunt are around, plenty of other owners don't seem to get fussed, so my answer to the question 'Would you expect them to be stabled?' is 'Not necessarily'.

The issue of trespass is the more pressing one. If this pack are repeat offenders, I would definitely go down the legal route, as suggested by other posters.


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## Alec Swan (26 November 2015)

Fiona said:



			&#8230;&#8230;..

I do feel its common courtesy for the hunt to notify farmers and landowners in the area they are going to cross, so they can make arrangements for their stock.  &#8230;&#8230;..

Fiona
		
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In an ideal world,  you'd be right,  but with the huge expansion in our equine ownership world,  and with horses being dotted about and just about everywhere,  I wonder if it really is practical to expect very horse owner in an area where hounds are likely to be taken to be advised that hounds 'may' be with them?  I truly believe that most packs do their best to work in with horse owners who may have horses turned out,  but to expect them to source every single owner,  simply isn't possible or being realistic.

I feel that mostly,  most secretaries do their best,  and that's all that we can ask.

Alec.


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## Christmas Crumpet (26 November 2015)

I have hunted all my life and consider myself very much a hunting person. However, I too have had issues with a local pack (who I don't hunt with) riding through my fields/pony paddocks which has driven me potty at the time. We live in a very wet part of the country and I have 2 fields of 1 acre each which I maintain very well in order that I can turn my horse out every day. There have been a few occasions where roughly 80+ horses have gone through my paddock at least once if not twice not to mention when they jumped the hedge and charged from one end to the other. I made my feelings very clear on the matter and asked that only hunt staff were allowed through. It was met with a rather frosty reception but I did point out I have 2 acres not 200. The other annoying thing is that they don't actually even have to go through my field - all they need to do is trot 200 yards down the road. 

I believe there is still very much, within certain packs, a sense of entitlement and the feeling that 'we have always done that so therefore should always be able to'. I am happy to say that the pack I hunt with would not dream of behaving as such and pony paddocks are def. out of bounds!!

I always keep my horse in when they are hunting round us simply because I would rather know he was safe in his box than charging about churning up the field. The yard next-door also keeps theirs in.


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## ester (26 November 2015)

Sorry but going on land they have been specifically told they cannot only days before is ridiculously poor form. Both of the hunts I have been out with have always been very careful about this. They obviously have very little consideration for others having been clearly having been asked not to several times given that they have had to apologise in the past and frankly it is just rude and unnecessary. OP are you the land owner?


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## The Fuzzy Furry (26 November 2015)

So OP, I take it that you haven't just gone to the MFH but also the police regarding the trespass as this isn't the 1st time?
I do hope so 

I happily hunt, but am very lucky to go with a very well behaved rabble (thank goodness!)


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## pixie (26 November 2015)

The police have been told about it several times, from other land owners in the area too.  I currently have two officers keeping their horses on my livery yard.
In previous years they have sent local landowners an event diary at the beginning of the season, so we would all know when they would be in the area.  This way we could make sure horses were in paddocks away from the roads (like ours are) or stabled.  We've had nothing from them this year, we only knew that they would be around from hearing it on grapevine...  In this day of modern technology, how much time does it take to send out a group email to local landowners and farmers?
There are no riding schools or trekking centres in the area, just a few livery yards.  Our horses are used to small groups of horses going past (as well as lots of cyclists and noisy farm machinery) and have never been bothered by any of it.  It was the combination of the hounds, 4x4s and large groups of horses everywhere that caused them to go crazy.
There is no right of way for horses or vehicles on our property.

FYI, despite them having being contacted yesterday, we are still waiting on any response or apology from them...


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## ester (26 November 2015)

So that hadn't even contacted you before hand :eek3: I presumed they had rang to inform you and then you had said no, no access :eek3:


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## be positive (26 November 2015)

Alec Swan said:



			In an ideal world,  you'd be right,  but with the huge expansion in our equine ownership world,  and with horses being dotted about and just about everywhere,  I wonder if it really is practical to expect very horse owner in an area where hounds are likely to be taken to be advised that hounds 'may' be with them?  I truly believe that most packs do their best to work in with horse owners who may have horses turned out,  but to expect them to source every single owner,  simply isn't possible or being realistic.

I feel that mostly,  most secretaries do their best,  and that's all that we can ask.

Alec.
		
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A few years ago a local beagle pack did exactly this, they wanted to come into a new area and spent several weekends driving around the area introducing themselves to every landowner/ horse owner that may be affected by them crossing the land nearby, we were given the chance to say no to them coming onto the land and receive a letter by post a few weeks before any meet that is in the area, any new people to the area are quickly added to the mailing list.

The big foxhound pack are far less considerate they sometimes remember to send out a meet card, I have had a phone call from one of the joint masters , who I know, to tell me of a change to their plans,  they no longer hunt on the land neighbouring me possibly in part due to their less than careful attention to communicating with people.


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## Countryman (26 November 2015)

This is a very sad issue. Relations between landowners and hunts should be warm, and clearly OP should have been told the hunt was nearby and permission asked to cross her land. As this did not happen, I would suggest contacting both the Secretary and the Masters, and explain why you are upset (and that you are upset). If this does not work, getting in contact with the MFHA may be the next step.


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## Alec Swan (26 November 2015)

pixie said:



			The police have been told about it several times, from other land owners in the area too.  I currently have two officers keeping their horses on my livery yard.
In previous years they have sent local landowners an event diary at the beginning of the season, so we would all know when they would be in the area.  This way we could make sure horses were in paddocks away from the roads (like ours are) or stabled.  We've had nothing from them this year, we only knew that they would be around from hearing it on grapevine...  In this day of modern technology, how much time does it take to send out a group email to local landowners and farmers?
There are no riding schools or trekking centres in the area, just a few livery yards.  Our horses are used to small groups of horses going past (as well as lots of cyclists and noisy farm machinery) and have never been bothered by any of it.  It was the combination of the hounds, 4x4s and large groups of horses everywhere that caused them to go crazy.
There is no right of way for horses or vehicles on our property.

FYI, despite them having being contacted yesterday, we are still waiting on any response or apology from them...
		
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Had this been your opening post,  then perhaps a different opinion could have been formed.  It wasn't and so you leave others to form their own conclusions.  I would agree with you in that if unintentional upset has been caused and pointed out to the Master of the Pack concerned,  and no one has bothered themselves to offer an apology,  which would be a simple courtesy,  then they will be added to the list of those who hunt who don't do themselves or hunting,  any favours.

Those who hunt and who are committed to hunting can only apologise on behalf of those with little in the way of any apparent courtesy.  Have you spoken directly with the Master?

Alec.

eta,  as Countryman says,  your next step if there is nothing forthcoming from those on the day,  is to contact the MFHA. That's what I'd do.


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## pixie (26 November 2015)

ester said:



			So that hadn't even contacted you before hand :eek3: I presumed they had rang to inform you and then you had said no, no access :eek3:
		
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It was discovered that they would be in the area.  They were contacted, to remind them not to come on the property (as they know from previous contact, they have NEVER had permission to be here).  They came on the property anyways.


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## Amicus (26 November 2015)

I don't stable my horse when the hunt passes and he just watches wistfully or if I appear rattles the gate in a 'there's still time fetch the tack' fashion he's hunted and loves it and he'd rather be able to see what's going on. I've friends who also leave there horses out without any issue. 

If I saw horses going ballistic when I passed I'd pass as quietly and quickly as possible I can't see at that point what else anyone should do. 

As to the bigger issue about hunts coming on without permission and being rude to land owners, that's obviously completely inappropriate and gives a bad name to all the perfectly decent packs out there. The hunt I last went out with had good relationships with local farmers and if it was delicate ground and the hounds ran the huntman would follow them but the field led by the masters would find a different route.

Can you just put padlocks on the gates on to your land until this particular hunt learns its manners?


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## Goldenstar (27 November 2015)

There is just no excuse for the field going onto land they have Been expressly told not to go on .
Our hunt sends cards round when the hunt is near and I phone places where I know there are horses that don't get card because they are the sort of places Alec was talking about where I know there are horses because I know the area very well .
On the in or out thing I can't hunt next weekend and the hounds are at the bottom of the hill my friend will take one out I will leave the rest in the field they will canter about if they come close but my horses have a run about and then just watch.

I think padlocks are a good idea for OP next time .


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## Tiddlypom (27 November 2015)

Has anyone got anywhere by reporting such incidences of deliberate trespass to the MFHA? You'd hope that the MFHA would come down on the mastership of an offending pack like a ton of bricks.


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## Gin O'Clock (27 November 2015)

Have PM'd you [Pixie].


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## JDH01 (12 December 2015)

We hunt a country with alot of small landowners and we card all of those in the area even if we have no intention of going anywhere near with the trails.  We have a number of landowners who will let hunt staff on but not the field and others who don't welcome us, we take every reasonable measure to keep off.


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## Judgemental (12 December 2015)

Amicus said:



			I don't stable my horse when the hunt passes and he just watches wistfully or if I appear rattles the gate in a 'there's still time fetch the tack'
		
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How could you, cruel in the extreme. How would like it if everybody went to the party or ball and you were 'Cinderella' left at home.

You should hang your head with guilty shame and think of your horse feeling left out of his first love and fun.

Shocking absolutely shocking.


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## luckyoldme (13 December 2015)

i don t stable my horse either if the hunt is in the area, he is presumably an ex hunter (no history on him) but he is on his toes literally for about one to two days afterwards. If its a fair day i take his rug off for the day and let him get on with it. There have been times when our local hunt has nt said anything but recently they ve been brilliant at letting us know. A few years ago i was looking after a 24 year old when the hunt went past, he cleared a gate and went off hunting. No harm done , and in a way once he was home safe it was kind of nice to know he had one last hunt!


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## Amicus (13 December 2015)

Judgemental said:



			How could you, cruel in the extreme. How would like it if everybody went to the party or ball and you were 'Cinderella' left at home.

You should hang your head with guilty shame and think of your horse feeling left out of his first love and fun.

Shocking absolutely shocking.
		
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Exactly he tried ringing the RSPCA but for they weren't very sympathetic to his plight.


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## Lizzie66 (14 December 2015)

I am quite amazed at what appears to be very bad manners on behalf of the hunt. The vast majority of the hunts go out of their way to ensure good behaviour from both mounted and foot followers and the masters spend a lot of time speaking to landowners double checking which areas are OK for hunt staff to go over, for the field to go over and for car followers to over. The hunts are only far too aware that their way of life is dependent on the goodwill of the land owners.

I have scanned a number of the posts and wondered if OP could confirm that they own the land (not rent) that the hunt are going over and whether or not there is bridleway or byway across the land concerned. The reason I ask about owning not renting is that many people who rent believes this gives them autonomy over the land however generally the land owner retains the sporting rights and therefore it is the owner of the sporting rights that gets to say whether a hunt can cross a property not necessarily the tenant.

Unfortunately quite a few hunts have started not sending out hunt cards, as despite hunting within the law there are far too many people that feel they have the right to disrupt people going hunting so the hunts are starting to restrict who they let know. Having said that if people phone the hunt secretaries and as when the hunt is likely to be in the area then most will oblige.


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## ester (14 December 2015)

Pixie did refer to herself as a land owner, and mentioned others also as landowners.
Not handing meet cards to all and sundry is fine, going over land you have been told only days previously not to is not!


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## Lizzie66 (14 December 2015)

ester said:



			Pixie did refer to herself as a land owner, and mentioned others also as landowners.
Not handing meet cards to all and sundry is fine, going over land you have been told only days previously not to is not!
		
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Again not excusing the hunt if they have gone on land that they are not allowed on as I said extremely bad manners especially if they have been told previously. It is however unusual in my experience for hunts to behave in this way they normally go out of their way to be maintain good relations.

I have read through OPs posts again and you are right that she mentions other landowners in the area and implies that she is also a landowner but from the phrasing she could equally be a tenant.


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## popsdosh (14 December 2015)

I must admit your thoughts had crossed my mind ,because I would find it extraordinary for a hunt to ignore somebodies wishes so blatantly without reason to.


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## Clodagh (14 December 2015)

Lizzie66 said:



			I am quite amazed at what appears to be very bad manners on behalf of the hunt. The vast majority of the hunts go out of their way to ensure good behaviour from both mounted and foot followers and the masters spend a lot of time speaking to landowners double checking which areas are OK for hunt staff to go over, for the field to go over and for car followers to over. The hunts are only far too aware that their way of life is dependent on the goodwill of the land owners.

I have scanned a number of the posts and wondered if OP could confirm that they own the land (not rent) that the hunt are going over and whether or not there is bridleway or byway across the land concerned. The reason I ask about owning not renting is that many people who rent believes this gives them autonomy over the land however generally the land owner retains the sporting rights and therefore it is the owner of the sporting rights that gets to say whether a hunt can cross a property not necessarily the tenant.

Unfortunately quite a few hunts have started not sending out hunt cards, as despite hunting within the law there are far too many people that feel they have the right to disrupt people going hunting so the hunts are starting to restrict who they let know. Having said that if people phone the hunt secretaries and as when the hunt is likely to be in the area then most will oblige.
		
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I haven't read all the posts, but Lizzie66 should the hunt really feel that tenants have no right to know? Only landowners?


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## Goldenstar (14 December 2015)

Clodagh said:



			I haven't read all the posts, but Lizzie66 should the hunt really feel that tenants have no right to know? Only landowners?
		
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That's not quite what Lizzie66 is saying , tenants often do not get the sporting rights with their tenancy that means they have no rights to prevent those given the use of the sporting rights to cross the land .
I have no idea if that has any relevance in this case .


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## Lizzie66 (15 December 2015)

Goldenstar said:



			That's not quite what Lizzie66 is saying , tenants often do not get the sporting rights with their tenancy that means they have no rights to prevent those given the use of the sporting rights to cross the land .
I have no idea if that has any relevance in this case .
		
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This - thank you


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## oldie48 (15 December 2015)

I live near the boundary of two hunts, my local hunt has never been anything other than polite and helpful. They will  let me know whether to expect them in the morning or afternoon. They even phoned me last week before lunch to say the scent was so poor they were going home so i needn't get my horses in. The other hunt, however, is a different story. They are considered a "fashionable hunt" but most locals would call them rude and arrogant with very poor communication. They frequently appear "off country"  unannounced causing havoc. A pony jumped out of the field last season, no-one made any attempt to go after it and no-one stayed around to let the owner know what had happened, pony went for several miles crossing a busy road and getting mixed up with school traffic. It was a miracle no-one was hurt. Hunt turned up a couple of weeks ago unannounced at a friends livery yard, we are on heavy clay here and she has several horses that get very lit up including some very valuable eventers. It was mayhem, these are landowners who have expressly refused access to their land since a locked gate was lifted off it's hinges to allow the field in!! The hounds and huntsman was on their land. I've asked them to notify me if they intend to come off country, they now tell me every time they are within 10 miles of me and so far I've kept horses in but they have not appeared. They just make me so angry and I am not even in their country! Unfortunately as they annoy more people the country they have to hunt gets smaller so the same people get them more frequently but they are their own worst enemy!


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## ester (15 December 2015)

I  wonder if the latter as the same as who the OP has had trouble with. 
I honestly can't imagine going out with people that would just leave an escaped pony running.


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## oldie48 (15 December 2015)

ester said:



			I  wonder if the latter as the same as who the OP has had trouble with. 
I honestly can't imagine going out with people that would just leave an escaped pony running.
		
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seems we are in different parts of the country but anyone who knows their hunts, will, I'm sure, know which hunt I'm talking about!!


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## Alec Swan (15 December 2015)

I'm just wondering,  have any of you who are so aggrieved,  bothered to contact the MFHA?  Complaining on here is a pointless exercise,  unless you back up your grievances by going to the regulatory body of those who follow hounds.

For those who have spoken with the MFHA,  what was their response?

Alec.


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## Judgemental (16 December 2015)

Alec Swan said:



			I'm just wondering,  have any of you who are so aggrieved,  bothered to contact the MFHA?  Complaining on here is a pointless exercise,  unless you back up your grievances by going to the regulatory body of those who follow hounds.

For those who have spoken with the MFHA,  what was their response?

Alec.
		
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Exactly Alec. Strikes me that the majority are a bunch of whingers and not very genuine one's.

If they have a grievance rock up at the hunt kennels, the doorstep of the secretary and/or the master and air their problem, that's assuming it is as I say genuine!   

Far too many folk about complaining about this that and the other!


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## oldie48 (16 December 2015)

Alec Swan said:



			I'm just wondering,  have any of you who are so aggrieved,  bothered to contact the MFHA?  Complaining on here is a pointless exercise,  unless you back up your grievances by going to the regulatory body of those who follow hounds.

For those who have spoken with the MFHA,  what was their response?

Alec.
		
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 No Alec, I haven't, I have spoken to the hunt directly and been visited by one of the field masters and been assured that they won't be in my area without notifying me first. Hence they now let me know when they have a meet anywhere in the area, which is quite a lot of Fridays and some Saturdays. As my local hunt is here on quite a few Tuesdays in the season I can end up keeping my horses in quite a lot and they are used to daily turnout. One week early in the season it was Tuesday, Friday and Saturday but we only saw hounds on the Tuesday. I can hardly complain to MFHA on behalf of other people who are annoyed and I guess MFHA would tell me that they were being super careful and I shouldn't complain! However, what I should point out is this is a problem that spans 20 years or more, so perhaps you might understand why my patience has worn thin and I am not in the slightest anti-hunt, in deed my daughter used to hunt with them. For those who might say, just turn them out, they'll cope I'd like to point out that my land is very heavy clay, currently very wet and likely to pull shoes off,  horses have all hunted and go completely nuts including the ancient TB. I can't risk injuries and frankly it unsettles my dressage horse for days. If my local hunt can be so helpful, why can't the other and why do they come off country in the first place if they are trail hunting??????


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## legend22 (16 December 2015)

Well I'd take a few of my friends and their horses and go have a good gallop round the secretary's /Masters fields or even better their gardens and see how they like it ;-)


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## Tiddlypom (16 December 2015)

Alec Swan said:



			I'm just wondering,  have any of you who are so aggrieved,  bothered to contact the MFHA?  Complaining on here is a pointless exercise,  unless you back up your grievances by going to the regulatory body of those who follow hounds.

For those who have spoken with the MFHA,  what was their response?

Alec.
		
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Alec, I've asked similar re the MFHA, both earlier in this thread and on another similar one from a while back. No one has responded. No idea if the MFHA have any interest in actively regulating the activities of packs or not (though they should do), but it would be very useful to know either way.



legend22 said:



			Well I'd take a few of my friends and their horses and go have a good gallop round the secretary's /Masters fields or even better their gardens and see how they like it ;-)
		
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A few years ago, a group of local farmers staged a protest picnic in the drive of a (now ex) master of my local pack . The hunt had rampaged across land which they had been specifically asked to avoid, resulting in electric fencing being torn down, milking and non milking cattle all getting in together, many injuries to the livestock and milk yield being down for weeks.


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## unicornystar (16 December 2015)

no, if they live there, it's up to the owners....our hunt regularly upset my horses that live out, maybe some don't have stables??


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## flirtygerty (19 December 2015)

Judgemental said:



			Tresspass, Injunction, Private Land, Rights of Way. 

Don't be ridiculous, one simply does not ride through loose horses.

I know there are some people who post on this forum who regard their horses as anthropomorphic, however I would be interested to know of any horse that understands issues of 'rights of way' as it gives the nearest ridden horse passing through the field a good kicking.
		
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Excuse me, but just sometimes a bridleway takes you through an occupied field, this happened to us on the hack from hell, badly signposted bridlepath in new area to us, brought us through a large livery yard's field with tenants very interested in the trespassers in their field, for safety's sake we got off and led ours to the gate, keeping my bolshy mare to the rear, knowing she would stand her ground, on topic, the hunt comes through often, I always bring my lot in, but there was one time, the hunt came through without warning, my lot had a fine time running round the field, although the hunt went round my field not through it, to be fair our local hunt is very considerant and my two that have hunted in the past love these visits, growing an inch at the sound of hounds or horn (I don't hunt)


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## JanetGeorge (19 December 2015)

pixie said:



			I agree, I am pleasantly surprised by Doormouse's response.  I'm sure that if more hunt people had this attitude then they would have more support, especially from landowners.
		
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I spent 7 years of my working life defending and promoting hunting for  the British Field Sports Society, then  Countryside Alliance.  I confess I'm damn pleased I'm not doing it  now!  Some hunts have behaved moronically - especially with sabs - and defending them would have been near impossible for any PR person (where honesty is the ONLY sensible policy!)

My own local hunt has a dim Master/Amateur huntsman - last time he  was in the area he was  warned that if he came NEAR  my land/horses I would join the  LACS AND the Hunt Sabs and bring them all down on his neck!!  (I think he believed me - he kept away!)


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## Alec Swan (19 December 2015)

Aah,  Mrs. George,  welcome to the discussion!  I'll admit to being a little suspicious of some of the claims,  but then there are those,  specifically Tiddlypom's post but others too,  where I'm left near speechless.  

Assuming that such thoughtless and arrogant conduct as has been related,  is more common than I previously believed,  then I'll say it again,  why the sabs and the lacs bother,  is beyond me,  Hunting will bring about its own demise.

Would you feel able to offer an opinion as to the role of the MFHA and whether they have any influence over those who hunt under the association's banner?

Alec.


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## Goldenstar (19 December 2015)

Well Alec I can think of a few people who might be deep plants for the LACS I think most hunts have at least one .


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## Judgemental (19 December 2015)

When I see you post Mrs George, I know hunting is still in good heart.

Indeed with sincere respect it is always Mrs George, I would not have the temerity to address you as Janet, says he nervously plucking at the keyboard.


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## JanetGeorge (20 December 2015)

Alec Swan said:



			Would you feel able to offer an opinion as to the role of the MFHA and whether they have any influence over those who hunt under the association's banner?

Alec.
		
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lol, I know  what I THINK they should do - and they COULD have a lot of influence - but they don't - and they don't!  Just don't ask me why they appear to be as thick as ****!


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## Clodagh (20 December 2015)

Goldenstar said:



			That's not quite what Lizzie66 is saying , tenants often do not get the sporting rights with their tenancy that means they have no rights to prevent those given the use of the sporting rights to cross the land .
I have no idea if that has any relevance in this case .
		
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Rights is one thing, courtesy to inform the land owner is quite another.


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## oldie48 (20 December 2015)

Alec Swan said:



			Assuming that such thoughtless and arrogant conduct as has been related,  is more common than I previously believed,  then I'll say it again,  why the sabs and the lacs bother,  is beyond me,  Hunting will bring about its own demise.


Alec.
		
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Well I think you might be right, I know that the country available to one hunt is considerably diminished because some local land owners no longer want the hunt on their land due to bad behaviour. There are now several pheasant shoots on land that used to be hunted, effectively stopping hunting for a large part of the season with the result that the same country is hunted over and over again. I used to go to hunt balls but don't now as the behaviour of some of the young men was frankly appalling! It was common practice to throw food and the last time I went I had a bottle of red wine tipped over me as a result of a miss throw. I'd rather not pay to a mediocre meal in rude company and have a dress ruined! The practice of hunting in the week rather than at the weekend is a snobbish throw back to  when people who could afford to hunt, didn't have to work. However, what a sad loss to the countryside it would be!


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## Clodagh (20 December 2015)

Clodagh said:



			Rights is one thing, courtesy to inform the land owner is quite another.
		
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Oops - I mean tenant!


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## Judgemental (20 December 2015)

JanetGeorge said:



			lol, I know  what I THINK they should do - and they COULD have a lot of influence - but they don't - and they don't!  Just don't ask me why they appear to be as thick as ****!
		
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I do love your so correct analysis.......   

I have been told so many times, by grandees in heavy chalk stripe power dressing suiting's, "dear boy don't worry about hunting, we have it all under control" with a knowing tap of the nose.

That's the problem no guile and intellect, largely run by old established inherited land ownership and wealth and their position gained as a sinecure.

Coupled to those who support such antediluvian characters, as sycophantic toadies.

That is the fundamental reason the Hunting Act 2004 was enacted, because there was nobody acceptable (to the Labour Party) able to sit down with the Labour party in 2004 and agree a rapprochement.

Those that were able and acceptable, were shut out and comprehensively excluded.


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## JanetGeorge (20 December 2015)

Actually, the MAIN reason Blair rolled over was he wanted his MPs to support him on another issue (God knows what it was - I  can't remember - but it was something 'significant' at the  time.)


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## Goldenstar (20 December 2015)

JanetGeorge said:



			Actually, the MAIN reason Blair rolled over was he wanted his MPs to support him on another issue (God knows what it was - I  can't remember - but it was something 'significant' at the  time.)
		
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It was sop to the left at the time of the invasion of Iraq .
I'm a mild mannered person but I do hate that man .


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## popsdosh (20 December 2015)

I think maybe in the circumstances we should almost thank TB as it was left with lots of loopholes in the legislation that has at least allowed most hunts to survive ! Not sure some deserve to though as they seem to have a self destruct button.


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## HashRouge (20 December 2015)

Goldenstar said:



			It was sop to the left at the time of the invasion of Iraq .
I'm a mild mannered person but I do hate that man .
		
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Same here, yet he just keeps popping up all over the place! The one sure fire way to get Jeremy Corbyn elected Labour leader was for Tony Blair to stick his oar in and tell people not to vote for him!


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## Goldenstar (20 December 2015)

HashRouge said:



			Same here, yet he just keeps popping up all over the place! The one sure fire way to get Jeremy Corbyn elected Labour leader was for Tony Blair to stick his oar in and tell people not to vote for him!
		
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Yes I agree when he popped on the radio saying don't vote for Corbyn we said that's it Corbyn has it in the bag.
TB seems to have no insight into what vast numbers of people think of him .


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## Mike007 (20 December 2015)

Goldenstar said:



			It was sop to the left at the time of the invasion of Iraq .
I'm a mild mannered person but I do hate that man .
		
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Interesting, I have only ever seen the man once .I was up to my eyeballs in TSG officers trying to "kettle" us outside parliament , on a countryside march. Blair rolls in with heavy escort clearing the way . The man looked terrified. The other man in the car was a certain syrian named Assad . Mr Assad seemed entirely unperterbed by the whole incident and also seemed a little "dismissive " of his erstwhile host. Purely as a mater of record and history . In my mind the only person who came out of that rally with his honour , was a lone policeman on the bridge who kept an entire crowd (or potential mob) under law ,simply by his fairness and honesty. Good on you mr unknown copper.


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## Alec Swan (21 December 2015)

Goldenstar said:



			.. 
TB seems to have no insight into what vast numbers of people think of him .
		
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You're right,  he doesn't and neither do the sycophantic lot who proposed him and then appointed him as our Middle Eastern Peace Envoy.  It occurs to me that the chance was lost;  He could have shared the role with Bush,  surely. :wink3::lol:

The more that I consider Blair,  the more that I'm prepared to consider that his manipulation and scheming displayed a level of '_evil_' not seen for many years amongst our own politicians.  It would be rare for me to support Piers Morgan,  but Blair was (is) a war criminal.  Saddam was hung for his crimes,  was Blair any less culpable? Should he not face justice?

Alec.


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## Judgemental (21 December 2015)

Alec Swan said:



			The more that I consider Blair,  the more that I'm prepared to consider that his manipulation and scheming displayed a level of '_evil_' not seen for many years amongst our own politicians.  It would be rare for me to support Piers Morgan,  but Blair was (is) a war criminal.  Saddam was hung for his crimes,  was Blair any less culpable? Should he not face justice? Alec.
		
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Alec at least we can take some small satisfaction, he has never been given any sort of title.

Should that happen, I anticipate the Honours and Appointments Secretariat at the
Cabinet Office would be deluged with folk objecting.

In any event, we all have one very effective device should that happen and that is an On-Line Petition of Objection and I anticipate it would quickly gather over a 100,000 names and the matter would have to be debated in the House of Commons.

Until then and if, Mrs ........ goes shopping with Pauline who is much feted and addressed as Lady Prescott and rightly so.


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## Alec Swan (21 December 2015)

Judgemental said:



			..

Indeed with sincere respect it is always Mrs George, I would not have the temerity to address you as Janet, says he nervously plucking at the keyboard.
		
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Yes,  I remember the admonishment well,  and deserved it was too!  The occasion still raises a smile! 

Rarely do I learn from the mistakes of others,  it seems,  but on this occasion,  I'll join you in a display of deference! 

On a more so(m)ber note;  There's little point in saying that next time we'll be better prepared.  The damage has been done,  and a reversal seems unlikely.  It also occurs to me that considering the conduct of some,  perhaps a change in the Act would only worsen matters.  I've always believed that a display of courtesy and good manners reinforced the stance of those who rode to hounds.  I'm quite sure that the vast majority know how to conduct themselves and give the generosity of others due consideration,  but as with everything these days,  it seems,  what we have on display are the antics of the minorities.  If they are indeed that,  minorities,  then it's the place of any governing body to prevent the swell of unwelcome and damaging conduct.

Right,  that's it,  I'm off to the pub! Good night! 

Alec.


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