# Why are TB X QH not very common?



## amy_b (2 March 2011)

Just wondering if anybody else has thought about this cross?! I would quite like to put my mare to a quarter horse because i think it would make quite a sporty cross and there are quite a few avail in england, but there doesnt seem to be ANY performance horses of this breeding. is it just because they aren't fashionable or am I overlooking some obvious reason not to?!
Just a thought....


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## KarynK (2 March 2011)

I know one who evented at intermediate, very talented powerball with a sensible head, but you have to pick the right type.


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## eventrider23 (2 March 2011)

It IS there if you look for it.  Surprisingly, the WB stallion Carousel has a QH on the 3rd damline!


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## kiritiger (2 March 2011)

They are quite popular in America I believe but I have only ridden one over here.


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## pedilia (2 March 2011)

My old horse was a TBxQH, he was an ex polo 'pony' (16hh) Very fast and a great jumper, also had a stereotypical TB mentality.


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## AJBliss (2 March 2011)

Very common in the states, if you look up Appendix QH you'll get lots of info.  I rode many as a kid!

I think the QH in Carousel is an allbreedpedigree error.  Horsetelex list his damline as a Holstein mare with the same name.


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## zandp (2 March 2011)

I have one, she's great, more QH mentality/physically than the traditional/sterotype of a TB.


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## eventrider23 (2 March 2011)

AJ - don't think it is as is on his stud site and everything.


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## misst (2 March 2011)

I have one. He is only 2 and a bit so we shall see how he turns out - he is a bit fugly at the moment. He is bigger than both parents (Mum TB 15.2 Dad QH 15h) at 16hh but is a very sweet chap. He looks like a chunky TB I think - big and bay He does have a huge backside though! He is very athletic and moves nicely. He was bought as a project by my daughter so we shall see what he turns out to be good at. He temprement is lovely, very laid back most of the time and not spooky - but can be a bit stubborn at times and is a very quick learner.


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## Endrete (2 March 2011)

I bought a TB mare from a QH stud near me who had bought her unseen and decided she wasnt the correct type of TB for them to cross with thier stallions.  

I am sure that they commented about registering the foals with a stud book and that the mare had to be the correct type to be registered as a QH riding horse?  Not sure if this makes sense or I have got it right!

I love the QH temperament and almost came home with a palomino QH filly :-O


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## magic104 (2 March 2011)

The TB x QH is I thought still classed as a QH and is the mix most found in the racing QH lines.  I have had a QH x AA & a QH X Welsh both the nicest chestnut mares, loving human company.  My QH x Welsh went to a Trak & the now rising 5yo has the best of all 3 breeds IMHO







This one took more of the Welsh then then the QH







Both were good Riding club horses, but neither had the scope to go top level.  You would think the QH would pass on stamina, & speed for XC, but it could just be that no one thinks to use them.

The Trak gave him better movement & he can also shift, has beaten an ex racer, but try not to use that gear too often!


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## Bearskin (2 March 2011)

eventrider23 said:



			AJ - don't think it is as is on his stud site and everything.
		
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The QH appears on his website and on All breed pedigree  but is not on Sporthorsedata where the QH is a Holsteiner.  It is more likely that Sporthorsedata is correct.


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## magic104 (2 March 2011)

Carousel is Holstein with no QH in his breeding.  Germans are not a great one for using QH's in their sporthorse breeding programmes.  But sure someone can prove me wrong & produce the name of a graded stallion with QH blood.


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## TarrSteps (2 March 2011)

magic104 said:



			The TB x QH is I thought still classed as a QH and is the mix most found in the racing QH lines.
		
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Sort of.   If you have an AQHA registered horse (so an "official" QH - they literally register every QH in the world and are probably the richest studbook in existence as they also run the shows etc.) and breed it to a studbook registered TB you will get an Appendix QH.  But that horse can show/race against "full" QHs and if it gets 10 points (not that hard - some horses have hundreds) then it can get full QH papers!  So you can then breed it back to a TB and start over again . . .  Some of the Hunt Seat and racing QH's have 3/4 or more modern TB blood.  It's a system that makes me laugh every time - the AQHA is all about anything that makes money.


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## jomiln (3 March 2011)

I love the QH x TB finding them to be very athletic and can jump. This is a pic of my daughter riding a homebred QH x TB - by Waccabuc Bay Charger out of a TB mare. He has done everything - from Pony Club to Dressage, Show Jumping and eventing.


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## amy_b (3 March 2011)

this is all really interesting! 
tarrsteps that makes sense becuase there are some that I really like and others that look like beef cattle that im not so keen on so i bet the latter are the more 'purebred' ones?
jomiln your boy looks really smart! definately an advert for the idea!!
id like to see one competing at badminton if we can all work on that  
magic your are really interesting to see the difference...you're the same as me, i would have thought they would make agood cross for eventers for stamina,speed and hardiness without stripping them of the 'blood' like the warmblood cross can...
all very interesting!!


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## KarynK (3 March 2011)

Here is a link to a post I did ages ago that explains the types within a breed that you get typically in the USA, haven't tried the links in a while though!
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=356301&page=2

You can get foundation bred QH's and there are quite a lot in the UK.  They have a calculated percentage of QH blood according to pedigree and there are a few that are judged 100%, similar schemes are running in other western breeds as well,  probably because of the outcross policies to other breeds that they have in operation.


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## cruiseline (3 March 2011)

Great thread, very interesting 

I can't comment on TB x QH horses, but we have used QH/Appy on our arabian mares and we love the results. They are only 2 year olds at the moment, but they have all the attributes to grow up into super endurance prospects for the future.

I have also used a QH/Appy on a Proset mare, the resulting colt received a 1st premium at his BEF futurity evaluation as a potential dressage horse. He has just started his backing process, so we will see.


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## TarrSteps (3 March 2011)

You see a lot of QH/Appy/Paint horses doing lower level eventing and hunter/jumper competing in North America, partly because there are so many of them!   As a group, they tend to jump well, especially with regard to front end form, and be very ridable, which counts for a great deal!  They also tend not to be good enough movers and scopey enough to be really top end but I do personally know two that have gone to the Olympics in eventing and I think one that jumped around Badminton.

A couple of factors in play, probably . . . there is BIG money in showing QHs so a pretty, athletic one that will do the job will tend to stay in that world now.  That said, I've seen quite a few real athletes that weren't really "right" for QH showing (usually too big a canter and jump) that have been totally ruined by attempts to "shut them down" enough to do the job.  Some get "rescued" - one I rode jumps now, another does dressage - but many trainers break at 2 (they can show ridden at 2. . .) and there are longe line classes, halter and showmanship available before that, and the training regimes tend to be quite "strict" so horses can have a lot of work on them before they're officially given up on.  (I'm not bashing QH and their people - I'm sure there are some warmbloods and TBs out there that would be super western horses but that chance gets taken away from them and there are certainly many TBs that would excel at sport if they didn't race first, but you can't help what you're born into.)

Also, because there are so many QHs and there have been some extreme fashions in breeding, how they're trained, shod etc, they have a bit of a rep as not being the soundest.  I think in some lines there is probably basis for that but even exceptions have to fight the perception.

I've seen some VERY nice crosses with warmbloods.  But again, you TEND not to see the best QHs used with the best warmbloods because they stay in their own worlds.  And many sport books will not accept anything with a "stock breed" in it, even for a partial registration.  There was a bit of a fuss about the AQHA becoming a member book of the WBFSH so they could do the YH classes etc. but I think, in the end, they didn't.  Besides, the AQHA run extensive awards schemes and have very good record keeping, so most people with a horse eligible for registration in North America will go that way, anyway.


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## amy_b (3 March 2011)

TarrSteps said:



			I do personally know two that have gone to the Olympics in eventing and I think one that jumped around Badminton
		
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can you remember their name?! I'd be really interested in looking into them!



TarrSteps said:



			you TEND not to see the best QHs used with the best warmbloods because they stay in their own worlds.  .
		
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I agree with this 100% and it spreads across the board,if people want a showjumper they use a showjumper, if they want a dressage horse they use a dressage stallion - not that there is anything wrong with it! - but often stallions in other disciplines get overlooked.


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## Heathersedge (3 March 2011)

Hello. I have been a lurker for a long time but have finally joined and thought I'd post.  This is one of our homebreds, a yearling in the photo. He is out of a mare by Sonny Steele by Benetton Dream. We love the paint X as it injects brains and a great temperament along with the power and presence of the warmblood.  The mare is infoal this time to Sir Shutterfly


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## cruiseline (3 March 2011)

He is lovely, what a stunning boy. The cross looks like it worked very well in this case. Keep us updated as he grows, please


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## amy_b (3 March 2011)

Id be proud to have that in my stable heathersedge!!


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## whirlwindhorses (3 March 2011)

amy_b said:



			can you remember their name?! I'd be really interested in looking into them!



I agree with this 100% and it spreads across the board,if people want a showjumper they use a showjumper, if they want a dressage horse they use a dressage stallion - not that there is anything wrong with it! - but often stallions in other disciplines get overlooked.
		
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I think it was Lucinda Green who went round badminton on a TB x Q.H, possibly either Beagle Bay or Regal Realm? 

This is my Arab x TB x QH mare. (only 12.5% QH)


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## KarynK (3 March 2011)

cruiseline said:



			Great thread, very interesting 

I can't comment on TB x QH horses, but we have used QH/Appy on our arabian mares and we love the results. They are only 2 year olds at the moment, but they have all the attributes to grow up into super endurance prospects for the future.

I have also used a QH/Appy on a Proset mare, the resulting colt received a 1st premium at his BEF futurity evaluation as a potential dressage horse. He has just started his backing process, so we will see.
		
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PICTURES!!!!  Haven't seen them for a while!!!


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## KarynK (3 March 2011)

whirlwindhorses said:



			I think it was Lucinda Green who went round badminton on a TB x Q.H, possibly either Beagle Bay or Regal Realm?
		
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Must have been Beagle Bay as Regal Realm was an ASH, the Australian equivalent of a QH.


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## TarrSteps (3 March 2011)

Hmm, not sure it would have been Beagle Bay either, but can't remember why I think that!

The two I know for sure were Canadian, both in the '80s, one ridden by Nick Holmes-Smith, the other by David Wilding-Davis (and who says only the English do double barrelled names.  )  David's was named Crusader but I have no idea what his registered name was - like TB, QHs almost never end up competing under their "birth" names in non-AQHA sports.  (One I rode was named something like "My Mister Commander" but showed as "Why Rush?" - great name for a QH.)  I can't remember what Nick's was called but I will have a look.  I'd be very surprised if their breeding is recorded at all, though.  I know there were also a couple in the US in the same era but I can't say I've seen any much more recently.

I do know a QH mare who was dam to a couple of good eventers but they were not full QH and she was not approved in any sport book, so again, no records.  The QH people I rode for has a TB mare in their herd who was approved CSH and had both sport and QH foals but no one would make the link if they didn't know the mare. . . therein lies the problem of tracing stuff like this.

The AQHA must give an "all breed" award for eventing - I'll see if I can track that down.


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## cruiseline (4 March 2011)

KarynK said:



			PICTURES!!!!  Haven't seen them for a while!!!
		
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Thats true, 

I will ask Claire to take some pics the next day the weather is not so wet.


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## magic104 (4 March 2011)

How about this one http://www.freshstartfarm.com/id14.html and http://www.owenquarterhorses.com/winnersbymate.htm


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## a kind of magic (5 March 2011)

I think TB x QH is a good cross, it was me orginially going to put my TB mare to a QH stallion that caused us to instead buy three QH!  At the stud where we bought our first two from there was a TB x QH x Paint who did low level eventing successfully, she was a beautiful mare and looked just as good western as she did english!


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## spacefaer (6 March 2011)

I used to event a 3/4 TB 1/4 QH a few years ago and to me, he epitomised why you wouldn't breed many of them - conformationally speaking, he was a combination of all the weak points of both breeds

He was very long in the back, short in the neck, croup high, his front legs were shorter than his hind legs - he coudn't have been designed more on his forehand if the poor lad had tried.  He had so much power from his QH bum, he was pushing himself into the ground in front just standing still.

He had a fab temperament and tried his heart out, but was so limited in terms of movement and ability over a fence (struggled to get his front end up quick enough), it was a real shame!  He jumped BE Novice, but was never going further than that!


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## KarynK (6 March 2011)

I think it's a little unfair to condemn a cross on the grounds of one individual.  After all breeds don't always get it right, I would not be proud of this as an example of a Friesian, it didn't make the grade but some dimwit is breeding it!!







Not all QH's are downhill, all those that rein or compete in working events especially those working cattle could not do what they do built downhill.

The cow horses have to lift a full grown man and a huge saddle plus their own front end off the ground with cat like agility at speed and the cutters have to anticipate the next move of the cow so a downhill horse would just not work.

This is a vid of a Stallion on my to use list, he is effectively 1/2 QH and he is working buffalo with a "novice" cutting rider (though Roger is several times a national Champ with Working Cow horses!).  Buffalo are very difficult to work they are much sharper than domestic cattle and have a much bigger "personal space" so horses have to think to work them, they are used quite a lot in training, plus they are a little intimidating!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0Rhd6zLzV8

And so pro's on pure-breds

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2LEKmQvBqI


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## Doncella (7 March 2011)

My mare is 3/4tb/1/4aqh, her gr/sire on the dams side being Waccabuc.   Fab looking, brilliant allrounder, dressage, sj, xc, small hunter and worker and mother to my fantastic 7/8tb/1/4aqh gelding.
Some time ago I spoke to an event rider with a view to taking the boy on if he grew (he didn't he stopped at 15.2) and he said he liked a bit of qh in an eventer as he had had one that could really jump.


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## Doncella (7 March 2011)

Having seen the videos, my 1/8qh when he was entire would 'mark' the bullocks in the next door field when they lined up on the other side of his fence and move them to where he wanted them just by looking at them and body language, he would also round up the sheep who strayed into his field.


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