# cyclist mown down by horsetrailer



## Suechoccy (31 August 2011)

Anyone know who the driver might have been? If so, the cyclist and the police would like to know please. 

Accident on the A386 at Roborough, near Plymouth, Devon, just before midday on 28 August 2011.

The BBC news report says horsebox but witnesses report it was a 4x4 towing a horse trailer.  The horsetrailer clipped the cyclist as the outfit overtook him.

The driver didn't stop but following drivers did stop and treat the cyclist on site until the ambulance arrived. The cyclist sustained a punctured lung, shattered right hip and three broken ribs.  He's now in Derriford Hospital with surgery on his hip to come.  

What horse events were on in that area that day that would see horse-trailers on that road around midday?


----------



## Amaranta (31 August 2011)

Jesus!  Poor poor man.

Maybe the driver did not realise they had hit him, well I would like to think that anyway


----------



## Daddy_Long_Legs (31 August 2011)

Omg that's terrible, I would imagine that they didn't realise they hit him, although they should have been looking in the wing mirror as passing!!!!


----------



## Lynette (31 August 2011)

Were the car and trailer heading towards Plymouth or towards Roborough.

There was a show on at Lydford and a PC Event at Merrymeet.


----------



## Suechoccy (31 August 2011)

>show at Lydford and PC meet at Merrington

thanks.  Does anyone have contact details (pref email) for either organiser please?  I'd like to get something out to them to pass around to people who took part.


----------



## PucciNPoni (31 August 2011)

Oh, poor cyclist!  

It might be also worthwhile finding out if any trailers have been stolen?    I could imagine that if someone had stolen a trailer and hit someone, they might not stop...


----------



## jrp204 (31 August 2011)

Trouble is cyclist's don't always check to see if there is a trailer, they see the vehicle but not the trailer. Maybe the truck went past and the cyclist moved out into the road?? You probably wouldn't know you had hit anyone.
Awful for everyone involved and i hope the cyclist makes a fast recovery. I am not defending the driver at all, I have cycled 1000's of miles and know how vulnerable you are but also how easy it is to not to check behind you before manoevering.


----------



## chestnut cob (31 August 2011)

This is terrible.  A friend of my dad's (in our cycling club) was hit by a car recently and has broken his neck, currently in hospital.

As someone who drives a car, cycles and rides horses, I can say that the scariest time I experience on the road is as a cyclist.  Car drivers genuinely do not care about cyclists and don't bother to look for us.

To say the 4x4/lorry might not have realised he'd hit the cyclist is unbelievable - you feel it if you drive over a bird on the road, never mind a man on a bike.  I hope they catch the driver and he goes to prison.  And I really wish car drivers would pay more attention to cyclists.  IMHO the only reason most cars slow down for horses is because they're worried the horse might kick their car...


----------



## Suechoccy (31 August 2011)

The cyclist is not a novice cyclist but a very experienced club cyclist (and a talented racing cyclist too though he wasn't racing at the time, just riding his bike). With that sort of expertise and experience in his background over many years, I think he would have been cycling defensively and well-aware that he was being overtaken by both a 4x4-and-trailer.


----------



## skint1 (31 August 2011)

I think this is a terrible accident and I hope the driver genuinely didn't know (I tow a lot and am always mindful of cyclists-some of my best friends are cyclists and motorbike riders too) I guess it may be possible for them to be hit by the far end of the trailer and to not know, it's a horrifying thought though to think you may have hurt someone and not know about it. 

I hate overtaking cyclists (particularly when they're in large groups on twisty, hilly narrow roads) they get irritated if you hang behind them for ages because there isn't room or visibility to give them a wide berth and pass safely without being in the path of oncoming vehicles you can't see because of the hills and bends, sudden maneuvers are not advisable when towing so you can't take chances, and they seem unwilling to pull over for a minute to let you by, I guess once you've got your momentum you don't want to keep stopping to let large vehicles by. 

That said, I hope the driver didn't callously leave the poor cyclist knowing they'd knocked them off their bike and I hope the cyclist makes a full and speedy recovery.


----------



## Flicker (31 August 2011)

Poor guy - really hope he makes a full recovery and returns to race fitness.

Incidents like this remind us why the highway code states that vehicles overtaking cyclists should give the same space as they would when overtaking another car (ie, move to the next lane).

I hope you manage to track down the driver.

Good luck and best wishes to all involved.


----------



## jrp204 (31 August 2011)

"To say the 4x4/lorry might not have realised he'd hit the cyclist is unbelievable - you feel it if you drive over a bird on the road, never mind a man on a bike."

I appreciate if you actually drive over something you would/should be aware of it but a glancing blow could be different and could cause the same sort of injuries. 
You are so vulnerable on a bike, i was threatened by one driver because i wouldn't cycle in the ditch, had water thrown at me, whilst moving, by a car driver who thought it was funny, he didn't reckon on me recognising him and turning up at his house 1/2hr later.
I'm not belittling the accident at all and i'm sorry if you thought that, we had a van wing mirror hit one of our group, driver kept going too.
On the other side of the coin though, we have a local group who cycle on sunday mornings, groups of 20-30 who ride 2 or 3 abreast and leave no gaps in the group so you can overtake some of them and pull in, they are even arrogant enough to try to stop the traffic on a road so they can ride straight through a 'give way' sign. Trying to pass them with a trailer is a no brainer. They give cyclists a bad name.


----------



## Fools Motto (31 August 2011)

Horrible - poor cyclist.
I, too hope that the driver was unaware he hit/glancing blow and hope if he/she does get caught, will show remorse. Surely there has to be 'some damage' to the trailer to indicate something happened? Wouldn't a responsible person take note? Maybe they will hand themselves in?
Failing that, was there any CCTV footage of the road - cameras are everywhere these days.


----------



## Mithras (31 August 2011)

Whats the betting that the driver hadn't sat a towing test?

Hope you find out who it was and that they are both charged and made liable in damages.


----------



## Hairy Old Cob (31 August 2011)

I wonder if the trailer had been STOLEN because the driver wouldnt be the sort of person to stop?


----------



## Rollin (31 August 2011)

I hope the poor an makes a good recovery.

Irene Whitson, who was BHS Chair for Central Scotland did a lot of campaigning for the safety of cyclists after someone she knew was killed, I think by an HGV.

She recognised that it is often difficult for drivers to see cyclists on their near side.  She drove a horse box and commented how difficult it could be to overtake when groups of cyclists are on the road.

This was our experience too particularly in Scotland where roads might be narrow and with poor site lines.  Also cyclists on racing bikes travel very fast and need a lot of space.


----------



## Miss L Toe (31 August 2011)

No, you don't know that you are being overtaken by a trailed vehicle [ I had a an incident in Belfast city centre [similar to the M25] with a caravan! and it just missed my elbow.


----------



## sonjafoers (31 August 2011)

I have a friend who hit a cyclist with the back of her trailer some time ago now. She had pulled out around him & then cut back in but the back end of the trailer caught him and she genuinely didn't know she had done it. It wasn't until she was stopped by a car driver that she was aware of it. Luckily the cyclist wasn't seriously injured and all the correct channels of sorting it out were followed.

I wasn't in the car with her at the time so it's hard for me to comment but she really wasn't aware she had clipped him, so just maybe the driver in question here also isn't aware.

I have seen the incident boards have now gone up so it is probable the driver will pass them and hopefully hand themselves in if they haven't done so already. 

Let's hope the cyclist makes a full and speedy recovery.


----------



## Mike007 (1 September 2011)

Suechoccy said:



			The cyclist is not a novice cyclist but a very experienced club cyclist (and a talented racing cyclist too though he wasn't racing at the time, just riding his bike). With that sort of expertise and experience in his background over many years, I think he would have been cycling defensively and well-aware that he was being overtaken by both a 4x4-and-trailer.
		
Click to expand...

The trouble with these racing types is that they dont want to brake and loose the speed and do take horrible chances in my experience. The idea of moving out the way and letting a queue of traffic pass never seems to enter their heads. Neither it seems does looking and staying aware of the traffic. I would bet there is a lot more to this incident than just a negligent driver.


----------



## marmalade76 (1 September 2011)

Agree with Mike, these 'professional'/serious cyclists are the worst, they won't use cycle lanes on pavements, they cycle virtually in the middle of the road, they will NOT pull in (I had to follow one for a MILE along a country lane not long ago) and they go so fast it makes passing them quickly and safely a hard job, paticularly when towing.

When I'm towing I am very careful when passing cyclists and always make sure I'm clear of them in my wing mirror. Hope he gets well soon.


----------



## chestnut cob (1 September 2011)

marmalade76 said:



			Agree with Mike, these 'professional'/serious cyclists are the worst, they won't use cycle lanes on pavements, they cycle virtually in the middle of the road, they will NOT pull in (I had to follow one for a MILE along a country lane not long ago) and they go so fast it makes passing them quickly and safely a hard job, paticularly when towing.

When I'm towing I am very careful when passing cyclists and always make sure I'm clear of them in my wing mirror. Hope he gets well soon.
		
Click to expand...

We cycle "in the middle of the road" because it is dangerous to ride in the gutter - the edge of the road is more often than not either badly surfaced, covered with potholes or stones/leaves/gunk and is slippery.  You're more likely to come off your bike by hitting something like that.  Also, by riding out of the gutter, you force ignorant car drivers to slow down.

Car drivers are not the only people who use the roads and cyclists have just as much right as cars to be there.  A cyclist who is racing is likely to be more aware of other road users than kids or other people just pootling along on bikes.  I've lost count of the amount of times I've overtaken, say, an old lady or a middle aged bloke cycling home from work who genuinely had no idea a car was near them.  At least racing cyclists tend to have an awareness of what is going on.

If a cyclist is racing, he could be getting up to 25-30mph (if he's good).  Do you really expect them to use a cycle lane, which usually has pedestrians wandering all over it anyway?  This really annoys me - car drivers will say "well, they shouldn't be racing on the roads anyway" and then overtake, whizzing off over the speed limit.  Presumably you are not driving an ambulance or police car so it doesn't do drivers any harm to wait a couple of minutes to find a safe place to pass.  If the cyclist you mention was going so fast that it wasn't safe to overtake then it can't have taken you that long to drive a mile...

Please remember that cyclists are very vulnerable and we break easily - we have just as much right to be on the road as cars (and before anyone trots out the "you don't pay road tax or insurance" line... the majority of racing cyclists will have driven to the race in their cars, which they pay tax on, and they should all have insurance for their bikes/riding on the roads).


----------



## Suechoccy (1 September 2011)

Hey guys, this thread is about trying to find a driver who hit a cyclist and caused him serious injuries.

it's not a thread to discuss the whys and wherefores of cyclists versus drivers, or cyclepaths versus roads.  Save that for another thread if you want to discuss that please.


----------



## marmalade76 (1 September 2011)

chestnut cob said:



			We cycle "in the middle of the road" because it is dangerous to ride in the gutter - the edge of the road is more often than not either badly surfaced, covered with potholes or stones/leaves/gunk and is slippery.  You're more likely to come off your bike by hitting something like that.  Also, by riding out of the gutter, you force ignorant car drivers to slow down.

Car drivers are not the only people who use the roads and cyclists have just as much right as cars to be there.  A cyclist who is racing is likely to be more aware of other road users than kids or other people just pootling along on bikes.  I've lost count of the amount of times I've overtaken, say, an old lady or a middle aged bloke cycling home from work who genuinely had no idea a car was near them.  At least racing cyclists tend to have an awareness of what is going on.

If a cyclist is racing, he could be getting up to 25-30mph (if he's good).  Do you really expect them to use a cycle lane, which usually has pedestrians wandering all over it anyway?  This really annoys me - car drivers will say "well, they shouldn't be racing on the roads anyway" and then overtake, whizzing off over the speed limit.  Presumably you are not driving an ambulance or police car so it doesn't do drivers any harm to wait a couple of minutes to find a safe place to pass.  If the cyclist you mention was going so fast that it wasn't safe to overtake then it can't have taken you that long to drive a mile...

Please remember that cyclists are very vulnerable and we break easily - we have just as much right to be on the road as cars (and before anyone trots out the "you don't pay road tax or insurance" line... the majority of racing cyclists will have driven to the race in their cars, which they pay tax on, and they should all have insurance for their bikes/riding on the roads).
		
Click to expand...

I am very considerate towards other road users as a driver, and I expect the same courtesy in return. A lot of these 'pro' cyclist seem to have an attitude of 'I have the right to be on the road and **** everyone else'!


----------



## Sportznight (1 September 2011)

marmalade76 said:



			I am very considerate towards other road users as a driver, and I expect the same courtesy in return. A lot of these 'pro' cyclist seem to have an attitude of 'I have the right to be on the road and **** everyone else'!
		
Click to expand...

The same could be said for horse riders....


----------



## marmalade76 (1 September 2011)

Sportznight said:



			The same could be said for horse riders....
		
Click to expand...

Some, absolutely.


----------



## china (1 September 2011)

i was taught in my B+E test to always do a follow through, if you pass anyone on the road or pavement wether it be a pedestrian or cyclist you check your left mirror once passed to make sure they are still there basically and havnt been hit by your trailer or have stepped out into the trailers path. They clearly didnt do this or they would have noticed the cyclist miraculously (sp) dissapeared.


----------



## POLLDARK (1 September 2011)

Cyclists & car drivers are human beings with a wide range of abilities & temperments, none of us perfect. It is to be hoped that the driver was unaware of the knock as it could have been the most glancing of blows but with a bad outcome for the poor cyclist. I travel a lot of country lanes & have found some considerate people cycling & some that get very ratty that you will not overtake them as they can't see the danger involved( in some circumstances ie bends or road is too narrow.) if you tried to pass giving them the required 'falling off' room we were always taught to allow them. I ALWAYS ignore their arm waving until it is safe to pass unless they stop & pull over.


----------



## hairycob (1 September 2011)

I'm another who has noticed that the arguments being used against cyclists are just the same as those used against riders. For goodness sake, shouldn't there be a bit of solidarity between vulnerable road users?
To be honest I can't make up my mind whether it's worse to do a runner or to be so unaware of other road users that you don't realise you have done them such serious damage.


----------



## mtj (1 September 2011)

Surely the priority is to locate the driver concerned.  The area I live in is frequented by racing cyclists, but on this occasion I will refrain from expressing my views.  This could easily have happened to a walker or horse rider.

Once the driver is found, blame can be assessed.


----------



## Miss L Toe (1 September 2011)

Mike007 said:



			The trouble with these racing types is that they dont want to  lose speed.... I would bet there is a lot more to this incident than just a negligent driver.
		
Click to expand...

tut tut, they are entitled to freedom of the road, if they slowed down for every car they would never get anywhere, I will pass on your remarks to the bus driver who decided to drive over a friend of mine [downhill on the main road doing a legal 20 mph] rather than wait at a junction.
 Twenty witnesses as one would expect on a bus!


----------



## mandyl (1 September 2011)

totally agree its about finding the driver not what cyclist might have done.
also everyones different im a racing type as it was put and have never gone through a red light and always try and do everything properly. no one is perfect


----------



## Rambo (1 September 2011)

I have to say i have a problem with cyclists racing on public highways. I'm fairly sure there's a clause in my insurance about not being covered for racing or pacemaking....what makes cyclists immune ?


----------



## Mike007 (2 September 2011)

Rambo said:



			I have to say i have a problem with cyclists racing on public highways. I'm fairly sure there's a clause in my insurance about not being covered for racing or pacemaking....what makes cyclists immune ?
		
Click to expand...

Dont see many of them in High Viz either, and since when did a tiny red flashing light on a helmet become an approved rear lighting for a road going vehicle?


----------



## Brandy (2 September 2011)

I hope the poor man makes a full recovery and is able to get back on his bike soon enough.

I think its quite plausable that the driver didn;t realise they had hit the man, my welsh cob does a lot of stamping and the occasional ramp kick in a trailer, it makes a hell of a racket. If there was a bump or bang, they may have assumed it was the horse. Obviously should have look in the mirror in any case.


----------



## Cop-Pop (2 September 2011)

When I was learning to tow I went passed a cyclist and he cycled into the side of the trailer   I was only going abt 5mph at the time as pulling off and gave him plenty of room - he admitted it was his own fault   However, I didn't hear the bang at all even with the window being open because my horse likes to try and kill the inside of the trailer on every trip  but as I was using my mirror at the time I saw it happen.  Luckily apart from damaged pride the cyclist was fine


----------



## Suechoccy (2 September 2011)

Further details:
The cyclist, Stuart Edwards, is not only a successful racing cyclist but also a serving Royal Marine.

4x4 may be red or brown in colour. Towing trailer.
Possibly travelling from Clearbrook to join A386.
Time 11.40-12 noon.
Overtaking a cyclist on a silver-coloured racing bike at location between Dartmoor Diner (Green Cafe) and Roborough Roundabout.

Police are asking ALL 4x4/horse trailer drivers who used that road around that time to contact them so that they can be ruled out of the enquiry.

--------
Police in Plymouth are continuing to appeal for witnesses to a road traffic collision which occurred on Sunday 28th August  which left a 47 year old Royal Marine with serious life changing injuries.

Stuart Edwards, of Plymouth, was riding his silver Certini racing bike on the A386 in the direction of Plymouth when he was struck by a horse trailer causing him to fall off and sustain the injuries. The exact location being between the Dartmoor Diner (known locally as the Green Cafe) and Roborough roundabout.

The trailer was being towed by a 4 x 4 vehicle and did not stop at the scene after the collision. Police are appealing to any person who drove the A386 between 11:40 am and 12:00 towing a horse trailer to come forward.

They would also appeal to any witnesses who may have seen the collision or seen a vehicle fitting that description at the time to come forward.

Police Constable Abi Bedson of the Serious Collision Investigation Unit states: We are keen to speak to anyone who may have information in connection with this incident. We do not have any information on the make or model of the vehicle involved although it may have been brown or red in colour and possibly may have joined the A386 from the Clearbrook direction, to this end we would ask that anyone who drove along this road with a horse trailer between the given times come forward so we can eliminate them from our enquiries. We are open to the possibility that the driver was unaware that he had collided with the pedal cycle so would ask that all drivers who may fit the description make contact.

Stuart Edwards is a serving Royal Marine at Raleigh and is a regular cyclist, being an active member of the Royal Navy, Royal Marines Cycling Association.
He is still at Derriford Hospital having sustained two fractured ribs, a fractured right hip and a punctured lung. He is likely to remain in hospital for some days to come.

Any witnesses to the road traffic collision or anyone who has any information is asked to make contact with the Serious Collision Investigation Unit on 01752 891961 quoting police reference number 388 280811 .
Alternatively they can call Crimestoppers anonymously on 0800 555111 or report online at www.Crimestoppers-uk.org.


----------



## Mithras (2 September 2011)

Rambo said:



			I have to say i have a problem with cyclists racing on public highways. I'm fairly sure there's a clause in my insurance about not being covered for racing or pacemaking....what makes cyclists immune ?
		
Click to expand...

I have a problem with other drivers who think they own the roads, who cannot cope with the fact that other types of road user exist, particularly on country roads.  How arrogant does a person have to be that they object to a tiny delay in their journey because another person is there?

I think you will find that racing insurance is required when racing, not training, and that all cyclists involved in licensed cycling racing events must have a race license which insures them while doing so.  If only all car drivers who use the roads for "racing" were insured...


----------



## Mike007 (2 September 2011)

Mithras said:



			I have a problem with other drivers who think they own the roads, who cannot cope with the fact that other types of road user exist, particularly on country roads.  How arrogant does a person have to be that they object to a tiny delay in their journey because another person is there?

...
		
Click to expand...

if only it were a tiny delay. The faster bikes are very hard to pass in a lorry and the resulting tailbacks are often huge .I frequently drive drawbar vehicles ,and it is a fact that cyclists do not notice the trailer because they arent looking around . How often do you see one of these cyclists pull in to let traffic pass.NEVER!


----------



## Mithras (2 September 2011)

Mike007 said:



			if only it were a tiny delay. The faster bikes are very hard to pass in a lorry and the resulting tailbacks are often huge .I frequently drive drawbar vehicles ,and it is a fact that cyclists do not notice the trailer because they arent looking around . How often do you see one of these cyclists pull in to let traffic pass.NEVER!
		
Click to expand...

In that case, you will be required by law and by your employers to be qualified in how to drive it, including having awareness of the rights of other road users and how to avoid becoming frustrated and overtaking safely when towing.  I actually found your earlier comments disturbing in the light that you drive for a living.  Other road users should certainly not have to take steps to avoid being hit by you, simply because you are towing.

I also drive a small lorry and a car in similar circumstances, and I do not find cyclists to be a problem.  They are simply one of many hazards/obstructions/tailbacks/things which you might reasonably encounter on a journey to slow you down.  You are not unique in having your journey interrupted.  I certainly am not so arrogant to think that I have the right to expect other people to pause their own journeys so as to let me past.  

I find these sort of remarks distasteful on a thread which details the life changing injuries that this accident caused to the person involved.


----------



## Mike007 (2 September 2011)

Mithras said:



			In that case, you will be required by law and by your employers to be qualified in how to drive it, including having awareness of the rights of other road users and how to avoid becoming frustrated and overtaking safely when towing.  I actually found your earlier comments disturbing in the light that you drive for a living.  Other road users should certainly not have to take steps to avoid being hit by you, simply because you are towing.

I also drive a small lorry and a car in similar circumstances, and I do not find cyclists to be a problem.  They are simply one of many hazards/obstructions/tailbacks/things which you might reasonably encounter on a journey to slow you down.  You are not unique in having your journey interrupted.  I certainly am not so arrogant to think that I have the right to expect other people to pause their own journeys so as to let me past.  

I find these sort of remarks distasteful on a thread which details the life changing injuries that this accident caused to the person involved.
		
Click to expand...

So you found  my comments disturbing. I am not the one that makes a cyclist pull out behind a truck only to find it has a drawbar.Cyclists do not look around enough and cause the danger to themselves. I merely said that there is probably more to this than a "negligent driver"If you have a problem with that, well tough!


----------



## Lynette (3 September 2011)

May we get back to the fact that this cyclist was in actual fact seriously injured and the car driver did not stop thereby causing a hit and run and very luckily not the death of a person.

I am an HGV Driver by trade and constantly see a number of car drivers who overtake and pull in "forgetting" they have a trailer on the back of them mostly caravans who only drive with them on the back occasionally.  This does not occur with just car drivers though as you get the occasional hire vehicle that also is not aware of their length as they normally only drive a car and you as the vehicle that is being overtaken have to be just as vigulant to prevent an accident.

Mike007 you drive a waggon and drag unit and I hope you are aware of the wind disturbance between the unit and drag.  So you check in your mirror and see the cyclist pull out behind the unit but before the trailer.  Have you not thought it is your own actions of not giving the cyclist enough room so as your wind disturbance does not affect him?

Quite simple the law states that it is for the overtaking vehicle to do so safely and not cause an accident.  The onus is not on the vehicle or cyclist being overtaken.

This particular road is a good wide road across fenced moorland not a narrow country lane and is in fact one of the main routes into Plymouth.


----------



## Mike007 (3 September 2011)

Lynette said:



			May we get back to the fact that this cyclist was in actual fact seriously injured and the car driver did not stop thereby causing a hit and run and very luckily not the death of a person.

I am an HGV Driver by trade and constantly see a number of car drivers who overtake and pull in "forgetting" they have a trailer on the back of them mostly caravans who only drive with them on the back occasionally.  This does not occur with just car drivers though as you get the occasional hire vehicle that also is not aware of their length as they normally only drive a car and you as the vehicle that is being overtaken have to be just as vigulant to prevent an accident.

Mike007 you drive a waggon and drag unit and I hope you are aware of the wind disturbance between the unit and drag.  So you check in your mirror and see the cyclist pull out behind the unit but before the trailer.  Have you not thought it is your own actions of not giving the cyclist enough room so as your wind disturbance does not affect him?

Quite simple the law states that it is for the overtaking vehicle to do so safely and not cause an accident.  The onus is not on the vehicle or cyclist being overtaken.

This particular road is a good wide road across fenced moorland not a narrow country lane and is in fact one of the main routes into Plymouth.
		
Click to expand...

Thank you,I am well aware of the aerodynamic effects of the various vehicles I drive. The fact is that many cyclists are aware of nothing except the road in front of them.I watch them conciously pull out to slipstream behind the truck then realise there is a trailer.


----------



## perfect11s (3 September 2011)

Mike007 said:



			Thank you,I am well aware of the aerodynamic effects of the various vehicles I drive. The fact is that many cyclists are aware of nothing except the road in front of them.I watch them conciously pull out to slipstream behind the truck then realise there is a trailer.
		
Click to expand...

 I belive its called darwinism  !!!!!


----------



## Mithras (4 September 2011)

Mike007 said:



			So you found  my comments disturbing. I am not the one that makes a cyclist pull out behind a truck only to find it has a drawbar.Cyclists do not look around enough and cause the danger to themselves. I merely said that there is probably more to this than a "negligent driver"If you have a problem with that, well tough!
		
Click to expand...

I was always taught to drive in a way so that other road users, including cars, cyclists and pedestrians do not have to take action so as to avoid my vehicle.  This is also the tenet of the Highway Code.  I find your comments deeply worrying and hope you do not drive for a living anywhere near where I live so that I do not encounter you on the roads either in my car, lorry, horse or bike.  I have visions of cyclists and pedestrians diving into the verges to avoid being hit by your trailer.  You have a terrifyingly worrying attitude towards driving.

I think you will find the issue here is primarily likely to be dangerous or careless driving, not merely negligent driving.


----------



## Piglet (4 September 2011)

Apparently they had pulled out from the Clearbrook turn off but I may be wrong.  They should have
checked their left mirror before they pulled back in, no excuse for not knowing,


----------



## Mike007 (4 September 2011)

Mithras said:



			I was always taught to drive in a way so that other road users, including cars, cyclists and pedestrians do not have to take action so as to avoid my vehicle.  This is also the tenet of the Highway Code.  I find your comments deeply worrying and hope you do not drive for a living anywhere near where I live so that I do not encounter you on the roads either in my car, lorry, horse or bike.  I have visions of cyclists and pedestrians diving into the verges to avoid being hit by your trailer.  You have a terrifyingly worrying attitude towards driving.

I think you will find the issue here is primarily likely to be dangerous or careless driving, not merely negligent driving.
		
Click to expand...

Dont worry I am a very patient driver. I get used to meeting so many f++k wits   both on the road and sometimes on the internet . The sort of people who think negligent driving is less serious than careless driving and are completely unable to read what someone else has actualy said. By the way did you read the highway code or just look at the pictures.


----------



## Mithras (4 September 2011)

Mike007 said:



			Dont worry I am a very patient driver. I get used to meeting so many f++k wits   both on the road and sometimes on the internet . The sort of people who think negligent driving is less serious than careless driving and are completely unable to read what someone else has actualy said. By the way did you read the highway code or just look at the pictures.
		
Click to expand...

There is no criminal charge of negligent driving.  I assume you are aware that there is a difference between criminal and civil law?  Do you understand concepts such as differing burdens of proof?  Are you even aware how civil law operates - what you are trying to claim is that a cyclist who is injured by your negligent driving by hitting a trailer you are towing while you overtake would be contributarily negligent in civil law, despite there being nor recorded precedents.  Any criminal charges would of course be additional to any civil claims.

Are you even aware what happens in a civil case, as opposed to a criminal case, and how the onus of proof in the former is on the Plaintiff to prove their case, not for the Defendant to disprove it unless the doctrine of res ipsa locquiter applies? (which again seems unlikely since there are no recorded cases for your claim of a cyclist being at fault for cycling into a overtaking vehicle).  Are you also aware that since you would be employed while driving, not only would a higher standard of care be required of you than a leisure driver, but that your employers could also be held vicariously liable for your actions?  Are you even aware that should you, as an employed driver, be involved in any accident, your comments on this website could possibly be traced?


----------



## Mike007 (4 September 2011)

Oh ,your one of those ,full of words but hasnt a clue. Whilst there is not a charge of negligent driving ,the concept of negligence certainly exists in both civil and criminal law. Please dont try to be clever you clearly arent up to it.


----------



## perfect11s (4 September 2011)

To be honest my main problem with this thread is the title .. mown down by horse trailer !!! it makes it sound like they drove at the cyclist on purpose ran him over then drove off..  
my guess is  the cyclist was clipped by the trailer either because said cyclist wobled out into its path or the driver mis judged the width or failed to see the rider  and are  maybe unaware they were involved in a colision  and it was an accident ..  hopefully the true facts will come out and the cyclist will make a full and speedy recovery....


----------



## Mithras (4 September 2011)

Mike007 said:



			Oh ,your one of those ,full of words but hasnt a clue. Whilst there is not a charge of negligent driving ,the concept of negligence certainly exists in both civil and criminal law. Please dont try to be clever you clearly arent up to it.
		
Click to expand...

There is no concept of negligence in criminal law charges other than in corporate criminal liability which is a relatively new statutory charge and not the first choice in relation to driving offences.

Would you like to try again, this time explaining what it is that you are actually trying to say, but correctly this time?


----------



## DragonSlayer (4 September 2011)

I see this thread has deteriorated into the usual insults and 'I'm better than you at driving....'-type-thread....

Let's hope the police catch up with the driver, and the proper procedures followed, and most importantly...the cyclist makes a full recovery.....


----------



## Equibrit (5 September 2011)

Mike & Mithras. Why not just slap 'em on a table and measure 'em ?


----------



## Mike007 (5 September 2011)

Mithras said:



			There is no concept of negligence in criminal law charges other than in corporate criminal liability which is a relatively new statutory charge and not the first choice in relation to driving offences.

Would you like to try again, this time explaining what it is that you are actually trying to say, but correctly this time?
		
Click to expand...

Criminal law is not just statute law. If this cyclist had been killed ,the driver would have possibly been facing a manslaughter charge . The courts would most certainly have considered whether the driver was negligent.


----------



## LittleWildOne (5 September 2011)

Mike007, GET OFF YOUR HIGH HORSE AND BLOODY WELL SHUT UP !!!!!!!
This poor man could have been killed and you are using this thread to belittle and insult every other LEGITIMATE road user other than yourself ! 


Sorry everyone else about that outburst.
I sincerely hope this man has a full recovery and is able to fully return to his work, and hobbies.
It's very sad that in this day and age, some people don't notice vulnerable road users.
I have ridden horses, cycled, walked and ridden a motorbike and it is sometimes terrifying to have cars and lorries pass with inches to spare. The turbulence from passing lorries can feel like you are going to be sucked under the wheels, especially when cycling. What's so wrong with giving people plenty of room to be SAFE when you overtake ? It's ok for the drivers, wrapped up safely in their metal cocoons with the stability of 4 or more wheels, crumple zones and airbags. "I'm alright Jack" springs to mind. I'm a car driver too (just don't have one at the moment), so know full well of my responsibilities towards all road users. Hey, I even thank drivers who slow down to pass me while I'm walking on a country lane with no footpath.


----------



## little_critter (5 September 2011)

I can't believe how this thread had deteriorated. It the title had been "Horse mown down....." then I'm sure there would have been a lynch mob ready to kill the driver. But because a horsey person hurt a cyclist then it's the cyclists fault!
Speaking to my OH who cycles - you can't fail to notice a trailer next to you at it squeeks and rattles past, I very much doubt the cyclist was unaware of it's presence and pulled out.
I was always taught that when overtaking a cyclist to always check your mirrors to check they're still ok as you pull away and make sure you give them plenty of room.

I also frequently hear that drivers underestimate how fast some people cycle - start to overtake, realise the cyclist is actually going 20mph+, run out of room, panic and pull back in forgetting the cyclist is still there.


----------



## Luci07 (5 September 2011)

I will put my hand up and say I very much dislike the people who race their bikes around Ranmore. They use the single road past us as a speed track which is incredibly dangerous as it is a: narrow b:not 1 way. We also have a huge number every weekend. Converesly, the mountain bikers or family groups on bikes seem to have about 5 times the road awareness of the racing bikes.

However this is not getting away from the fact that a man has been badly injured. I have no idea if it would be possible to not realise you had knocked someone off their bike and wish him every speedy recovery. We have, on occasion, picked up cyclists that motorists have knocked off their bikes so do have every sympathy.  

I never thought of the slipstream impact I could have on a cyclist but equally when I meet them its on country roads so not going fast anyway.


----------



## Fallenrose (17 September 2011)

I hope the cyclist make a swift and full recovery.

My dad is a cyclist and has been in lots of accidents over the years. The most recent was the worst - he was 'hit' by a van and ended up in intensive care with fractured skull, broken ribs and collar bone. The van driver only knew my dad had come off his bike because he looked in his wing mirror. 

My dad couldn't remember anything. When the police investigated what had happen they found that the van hadn't actually made contact with my dad at all. It had driven over a wrench (left in the road after council roadworks!) And the wrench had flown up and smashed into the spokes of my dad's bike, sending him crashing into a wall! A freak accident!

So I do believe that the trailer driver might be unaware they have caused the accident. However could be the case that, as already mentioned, the trailer was stolen or driver didn't have the correct licence. Hope police get to the bottom of it and most importantly that the cyclist gets better soon!


----------

