# Giving horses new competition names.



## ycbm (3 December 2017)

An interesting discussion started in another thread that most people probably won't notice, so I thought I'd start a thread here. It was about changing the name that a horse competes under.

I've just bought an Ithon Patch who will be a white leopard spot when he finishes varnishing out. He was born with a patch but now his spots are round, he has no patches. I hate the name. He's my horse. Should I have to compete him with that name?  Should I have to keep the Ithon prefix?  His father is not recorded, his mother was a trotter and his breeder does harness racing, which he will never do. 

If some names should be allowed to be changed and some not, what should the rules be?


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## be positive (3 December 2017)

It is something I feel fairly strongly about and think the breeder should be able to easily keep track of a horse they bred and hopefully took care about naming BUT I do have sympathy for owners who buy a horse with either a simple stable name in the passport or something ridiculous and unsuitable for some reason.
My view is that if the name is not a "proper" name, Henry/ Sally etc,  then it should be possible to change rather than have a number added and most generic passports can be changed, I don't see how a breeder can keep track of Henry when they will have no idea of the number added at a later date and think if they were so concerned they should have given more thought at the tie of naming.

A horse with a full breed society passport should remain with the name given with no possibility of changing or dropping the registered prefix.

Yours is a bit in the middle, if he has no recorded breeding then he will probably be on a generic passport, the prefix is registered so should remain with him, I would possibly contact the breeder and see if the Patch can be changed otherwise I would put up with it, don't forget he will have some unregistered stock on the ground next year and the future owners may like to follow the sire to see what their youngsters may turn out like, there are so many around of unknown breeding it is nice to find one that you can look into a bit before you buy.


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## popsdosh (3 December 2017)

Some PIOs will allow name changes but only with the agreement of the breeder. However once registered with any of the affiliated disciplines thats it ! I think thats fair to everybody god help us if we go back to the bad old days!
The whole not being able to change names is a good thing for many reasons, from a breeders point of view and to stop to be blunt cheating.  My argument has always been if the rules say you cant change a name its your choice whether you buy or not. Dont moan after the event. All my youngsters are sold un named however they are named by me at sale with whatever the purchaser wishes my prefix being there is not negotiable!!  I sold a youngster a few years back whos name was changed by BSJA when they would, who went on to win the Hickstead speed derby it was only seeing a photo in a magazine a few years later I actually recognised this distinctive 3yo I had sold . That 3yo was MCed however had another passport as it transpired no wonder British breeding cant compete with europe. I also missed out on a four figure breeders prize! I did get revenge as both myself and to their credit SHGB refused to let them use the mares pedigree when they decided she may be a valuable breeding mare.


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## ycbm (3 December 2017)

I should have added that my fellow was a colt last week, who has nine offspring due in spring. I hadn't thought of those, Popsdosh. They will be sold genetically papered, though, it's a real back yard dealer. 

A sensible way to do this would be to track on chip number and allow owners to call their horses what they like, but of course that takes a central database .......

I have to admit that I am tempted to 'lose' his passport and 'forget' which agency he is registered with at the moment. I just can't compete a leopard spot  BD as Ithon Patch, it makes me look one sandwich short of a picnic


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## popsdosh (3 December 2017)

ycbm said:



			I should have added that my fellow was a colt last week, who has nine offspring due in spring. I hadn't thought of those, Popsdosh. They will be sold genetically papered, though, it's a real back yard dealer. 

A sensible way to do this would be to track on chip number and allow owners to call their horses what they like, but of course that takes a central database .......

I have to admit that I am tempted to 'lose' his passport and 'forget' which agency he is registered with at the moment. I just can't compete a leopard spot  BD as Ithon Patch, it makes me look one sandwich short of a picnic 

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If the names such an issue why did you buy it? That prefix is obviously important to the breeder as it has been registered since 1978 and is current and they are not a backstreet breeder lol

What would that gain you ? No PIO will register him with an existing chip without first tracing his previous registration which you will still be lumbered with and his name.  If they did both you and the PIO would be breaking the law along with any vet who implants another chip into a horse already carrying one.


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## DabDab (3 December 2017)

I would never change a horse's passported name unless it was a generic 'bessy' or similar as mentioned by BP above.

All three of mine have a prefix that pertains to the breeder and I would feel very uncomfortable changing that - one has a breed society passport, the other two a generic petplan. It actually annoys me more that the younger two are on a generic passport, and the breeding isn't properly recorded tbh. The names are the only bit of traceability I have for them really


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## sychnant (3 December 2017)

I changed Casper's name when we registered with BD - generic passport, and loads of Caspers already registered, with roman numerals after their names. I added Sychnant in front, so he's Sychnant Casper, but they didn't take off his old name, it's in brackets underneath the new one.

I wouldn't change Rex's name, as he's a registered Welsh Sec C, and although I'm not keen on his name I don't think it's right to change it when he has a breeder's prefix. He's gelded, so never going to breed, but even so...

If Ally ever gets to compete, she will do the same as Casp, as she's just Alice on a generic passport. I'll add Sychnant in front. 

Eris has the name I passported her with, she came to me as an unnamed 8 month old


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## Shay (3 December 2017)

Why can't you compete Ithon Patch BD?  It doesn't look like there is another one - but if there is BD simply add a number. If it is just the name patch when he will in fact be spotty...?  I don't think that will open you up to ridicule in any way.

I can appreciate there are times to change a competition name - and some names are impemissible.  But there should be a number of hoops to jump through IMO.  The vast majority of folk posting about changing names are fairly low level competitors.  If you could change a name too easily then it would just be used to circumvent eligibility rules. Sadly that is something I see most years in Pony Club - especially since they tightened eligibility rules for SJ and Dressage.  It is harder where there is a chip - but not impossible.  And there will always be owners who "loose" the passport and try to re-register - and indeed OP appears to intend to do.  I had a PC pony a couple of years ago (not mine - as in I met it..) with several passports depending on what discipline they competed under.  It caught up with them when the vaccination record wasn't in the passport he needed for PC camp.

The passport system is a shambles - which is why this happens.  But that doesn't make it right.


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## ycbm (3 December 2017)

Dupe


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## ycbm (3 December 2017)

popsdosh said:



			If the names such an issue why did you buy it? That prefix is obviously important to the breeder as it has been registered since 1978 and is current and they are not a backstreet breeder lol

What would that gain you ? No PIO will register him with an existing chip without first tracing his previous registration which you will still be lumbered with and his name.  If they did both you and the PIO would be breaking the law along with any vet who implants another chip into a horse already carrying one.
		
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Would you turn down a damned good horse because it had a name you hated ? 

I did not buy him from his breeder. His breeder is a harness racer. I bought him from a backyard breeder, who used a two year old colt with an unrelated father, him,  as their stallion. 

Can we get back to a generic discussion about name changes?

Is there actually a central register of chips? How would a PIA search other PIAs for a chip number? Is that even possible, given how many there are?


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## Frumpoon (3 December 2017)

I must admit it's rare but I'm with ycbm on this

I had a young horse with a very well known stud prefix and he'd had a very rough time in his short life, when I rang them to get some background on him they couldn't remember him and didn't really want to talk to me. 

In the event he was unfixable and is now retired at grass but if he had been fixable there was no way on earth I was going to give the stud the credit for him when they had sold him to viscious people who punctuated his life with savage beatings


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## eatmyshorts (3 December 2017)

Pity you couldn't keep his name but add in a few words/letters .... "Ithon Previously Patchy"  xx


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## Leo Walker (3 December 2017)

You keep saying he will be leopard spot but actually he might well not be. They can varnish out in any number of ways, with or without spots and can change year to year. They dont go white either so he will never be a true leopard spot, he will keep the darker colour on bony areas, so actually he will be patchy at least some of the time, just not the defined skewbald patchy that most people think of. 

At the end of the day if someone has gone to the trouble of registering a prefix and naming a horse then the least you can do is compete the horse under that name. Even if people did ridicule you, which they wont, what does it matter anyway?


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## The Fuzzy Furry (3 December 2017)

Frumpoon said:



			I must admit it's rare but I'm with ycbm on this

I had a young horse with a very well known stud prefix and he'd had a very rough time in his short life, when I rang them to get some background on him they couldn't remember him and didn't really want to talk to me. 

In the event he was unfixable and is now retired at grass but if he had been fixable there was *no way on earth I was going to give the stud the credit for him when they had sold him to viscious people who punctuated his life with savage beatings*

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Difficult that one, as I picked up NF, who was in a barbaric place with appalling owners, and all sorts of issues going on.
HOWEVER, the breeder had sold the mare to these 'very nice people' the year before and they dropped contact with breeder about a month in (this was a newly backed sweet natured pony). Nobody can ever judge that quickly what another might do with a horse, whether on a livery yard, sales yard or to new purchasers.
Breeder was horrified when I got in touch, but equally pleased that NF is now with me & has had a lot of issues worked through.


Back to ycbm, I completely agree with Pops & BP, I'd be furious if someone changed the name / threw away passport etc on one that I'd bred. OK, I've only bred 11 in the past, but all were fully papered up and chipped. Change name at home for day-to-day use by all means, but not for comp purposes.


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## HashRouge (3 December 2017)

Frumpoon said:



			In the event he was unfixable and is now retired at grass but if he had been fixable there was no way on earth I was going to give the stud the credit for him when they had sold him to viscious people who punctuated his life with savage beatings
		
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It's hardly the stud's fault - they presumably can't predict the future so didn't know what a terrible home it would turn out to be...


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## GirlFriday (3 December 2017)

For the sake of the horse's future I'd always keep a name. If the horse knew it I'd keep a stable name too (I'm writing this next to a non-KC registered dog I didn't name but which will remain as per his passport*/known details). You may have Ludo (game not Labyrinth creature) for life OP but you may not (I think you're selling another?) and it helps future owners trace history, breeding, comp record, relatives etc.

Most people don't end up competing home-bred horses so no one is going to assume you picked the name anyway... and, besides, lumbering Ludo is a much worse association for BD than someone getting the markings a little off 

ETA: * microchip details I mean


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## Clodagh (3 December 2017)

Names should not be allowed to be changed. We can call them anything we like on a day to day basis, why on earth does it matter what the commentator announces them as when you enter the ring, except for the breeder?


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## ycbm (3 December 2017)

eatmyshorts said:



			Pity you couldn't keep his name but add in a few words/letters .... "Ithon Previously Patchy"  xx
		
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Now I like that!


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## ycbm (3 December 2017)

Clodagh said:



			Names should not be allowed to be changed. We can call them anything we like on a day to day basis, why on earth does it matter what the commentator announces them as when you enter the ring, except for the breeder?
		
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Because the rider may have had more input into the horse becoming a good competitor than the breeder?  

Because it is possible to really hate a given name. If someone loathes their father, for example, and the horse carries their father's name?

Because you know that for every good horse the breeder produces another dozen get treated like dirt?

Because the name offends you? If you had bought the chestnut stallion Ginger Dick (true name), for example, and genuinely found it cringingly embarrassing?

Why not? In this day of chip numbers it should not be necessary for a breeder to impose a name on future owners in order to track the performance of their stock. If the rider was responsible for making a competitive success of the horse's training, why should they be forced to be a walking advertisement for the breeder for the rest of the horses life, against their will?


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## ycbm (3 December 2017)

GirlFriday said:



			For the sake of the horse's future I'd always keep a name. If the horse knew it I'd keep a stable name too (I'm writing this next to a non-KC registered dog I didn't name but which will remain as per his passport*/known details). You may have Ludo (game not Labyrinth creature) for life OP but you may not (I think you're selling another?) and it helps future owners trace history, breeding, comp record, relatives etc.
		
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Isn't this all a matter of degree?


I completely agree with highly bred horses from reputable breeders. But from small breeders at the lower end of the market registering offspring without both parents being named, and selling them away from their intended market, e.g. harness racer used on non-descript mares to produce unregistered offspring for the bottom end of the leisure market and then ending up in dressage?


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## ihatework (3 December 2017)

My view on it is ....
If you have an already registered with an affiliated discipline Horse - no name change (irrespective of the horse history)
If you have a horse, young or old, that has a proper passport with full breeding and has been named - no name change without the breeder consent
Backyard bred with a crappy passport - well if the breeder didnt care enough to do it properly then they probably dont care so much about following its future, so I wouldnt get my knickers in a twist about changing its name before it does something of note.


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## Snowfilly (3 December 2017)

My mum bred a lot of foals. Some of them were top class Anglo Arabs and part bred Arabs, who have done well showing and endurance (up to FEI level.)

Others were by the same stallion out of non descript pony mares, ink using unregistered Welsh types. They had no dam's breeding to boost about, and although she recorded the mares' stable names, they were fairly meaningless. And I can tell you my Mum is just as proud of those carefully bred and reared and sold on ponies as she is of the big name success stories - even if their greatest achievement is carrying a 6 year old around their first showjumping course, and winning rosettes for fancy dress as an elephant. If they'd had their names changed, she'd have been gutted; your lesisure horses, your hairy ponies were hopefully bred by someone who valued them and is proud of them and put a lot of thought into that name even if it doesn't quite fit, even if they were for the lower end of the market.

And are you sure he was named Patch for his colour? I know a few breeders who work through the alphabet, name after films and books, or previous horses - our last foal was registered in honour of my mum's second pony, some 45 years ago.


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## stormox (3 December 2017)

ycbm said:



			I have to admit that I am tempted to 'lose' his passport and 'forget' which agency he is registered with at the moment. I just can't compete a leopard spot  BD as Ithon Patch, it makes me look one sandwich short of a picnic 

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I think that is absolutely awful!! As someone who has bred, and taken a lot of trouble to register, which costs money, my foals (I have a prefix) I would be very annoyed if someone wanted to disregard it. I did allow one to be changed to add the new owners prefix but I had to write a letter to the breed society so it would always be on record what the original name was and what it was changed to.

No one will give a **** if your horse is called patch and he hasnt got one!!


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## ycbm (3 December 2017)

Doesn't anyone find it odd to sell something and want the right to control what it's called for the rest of its life? In any other walk of life, if you want control you have to keep ownership, don't you?


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## Luci07 (3 December 2017)

I had a lovely big dark bay for many years. Loved his show name "The Bold Knight" which really suited him. His stable name was...Spot.

He did, if you looked carefully, actually have a small gray spot on his nose but the looks I got when this big bay rocked up.

Same as my old mare. Big bay mare....stable name Frosty!

Only changed a stable name once (horse was called Wally) and in my mares case, with a lovely twist, it meant that I could track down her breeder - who came to see her event with me and gave me all her backstory.


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## GirlFriday (3 December 2017)

ycbm said:



			Isn't this all a matter of degree?


I completely agree with highly bred horses from reputable breeders. But from small breeders at the lower end of the market registering offspring without both parents being named, and selling them away from their intended market, e.g. harness racer used on non-descript mares to produce unregistered offspring for the bottom end of the leisure market and then ending up in dressage?
		
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But what about when *you* sell Ludo, and his name gets changed again, and he ends up at some sales... with an easily searchable name that links him back to his fantastic success as YCBM's Stressage Diva (at whatever level) he stands a much better chance of ending up in a good home (including, in theory, one where he may be broken to drive due to someone looking up his breeder) than if he is untraceable.


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## stormox (3 December 2017)

ycbm said:



			Doesn't anyone find it odd to sell something and want the right to control what it's called for the rest of its life? In any other walk of life, if you want control you have to keep ownership, don't you?
		
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It is not control. It is about giving breeders a bit of respect. It allows people to trace where their horse came from. It allows others from the same family to be traced and family/breeding traits identified. It occasionally gives breeders recognition for the effort they put in choosing  the right stallion for that mare. Is their breeding programme working 10 years down the line? And if names are changed willy-nilly how is any record to be kept of that horse? Names are used in competitions, not microchip numbers!!


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## GirlFriday (3 December 2017)

ycbm said:



			Doesn't anyone find it odd to sell something and want the right to control what it's called for the rest of its life? In any other walk of life, if you want control you have to keep ownership, don't you?
		
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As above - don't think of it as the breeder controlling something - think of it as a way of ensuring that the horse (ETA: and, in your case, his off-spring) has the best chance himself throughout life. When people look to buy comp horses on here they very frequently look back at their records which helps buys select animals they are likely to be able to provide a suitable home for. Also stops someone 'loosing' Valegro's passport and pot hunting when you take Ludo to his first outings expecting to get frillies!


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## ycbm (3 December 2017)

GirlFriday said:



			But what about when *you* sell Ludo, and his name gets changed again, and he ends up at some sales... with an easily searchable name that links him back to his fantastic success as YCBM's Stressage Diva (at whatever level) he stands a much better chance of ending up in a good home (including, in theory, one where he may be broken to drive due to someone looking up his breeder) than if he is untraceable.
		
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It's an interesting argument, but I don't think I can accept that a competitive home is any more likely to be a 'good' home for a horse, in terms of being well looked after.


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## OrangeAndLemon (3 December 2017)

I'm aware of a lovely lady who has won lots with her amazing cob, Belle. She has never changed the pony's name even though she admits she hates it. So, if this lady can live with her championship winning pony having her name read out over the loudspeakers, I think you can live with patch.

Belle's passport name is River Meadows Head and Arse (really not kidding)


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## ycbm (3 December 2017)

stormox said:



			It is not control. It is about giving breeders a bit of respect. It allows people to trace where their horse came from. It allows others from the same family to be traced and family/breeding traits identified. It occasionally gives breeders recognition for the effort they put in choosing  the right stallion for that mare. Is their breeding programme working 10 years down the line? And if names are changed willy-nilly how is any record to be kept of that horse? Names are used in competitions, not microchip numbers!!
		
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Does it make a difference if the stallion is unnamed and only the mare's offspring can be tracked?

Databases make the tracking by chip number independent of name very easy if anyone could be bothered to do it. Instead, breeders get lifetime marketing of their product for free by relying on the controllers of affiliated competition insisting on passported names, and passport agencies refusing name changes. I understand this at top level, but not for the lower end of the market. 

 I show my respect to a breeder by paying money for the horse.


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## ycbm (3 December 2017)

OrangeAndLemon said:



			I'm aware of a lovely lady who has won lots with her amazing cob, Belle. She has never changed the pony's name even though she admits she hates it. So, if this lady can live with her championship winning pony having her name read out over the loudspeakers, I think you can live with patch.

Belle's passport name is River Meadows Head and Arse (really not kidding)
		
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I would not accept that name and I would do whatever it took to change it.


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## WeeLassie (3 December 2017)

Absolutely nothing to do with control. Do your parents control you because they gave you your name? If I was buying a horse and I found its passport had been 'lost' and a new name given (which is illegal anyway,you cant legally have 2 passports on one microchip) I would immediately suspect the horse to be dodgy or stolen....


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## GirlFriday (3 December 2017)

ycbm said:



			Does it make a difference if the stallion is unnamed and only the mare's offspring can be tracked?
		
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You'll effectively be placing the 9 foals in this position as they'll be no record for them that their dad went on to compete


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## ycbm (3 December 2017)

WeeLassie said:



			Absolutely nothing to do with control. Do your parents control you because they gave you your name? If I was buying a horse and I found its passport had been 'lost' and a new name given (which is illegal anyway,you cant legally have 2 passports on one microchip) I would immediately suspect the horse to be dodgy or stolen....
		
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I could legally change my name without leaving my chair right now.  It is about controlling what someone chooses to call their own property. I understand the reasons, but you can't rightly say it's not control.


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## JFTDWS (3 December 2017)

I wouldn't change a passport name, no.  Fergus's name is fine - he's the only one, but it's a perfectly fine name.  DryRot, on the other hand, was trolling me with Darach's name, since he's been sent down to me in England, and is now cursed with ghastly "MorriCK DaraCK" because the English can't speak correctly   My mare's name isn't to my taste, but it is what it is.  I like her stable name - if I didn't, I'd have changed it.  So that's what I call her.  If a commentator or show report lists her as her full name, it really doesn't affect my life to any appreciable degree.


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## GirlFriday (3 December 2017)

ycbm said:



			It's an interesting argument, but I don't think I can accept that a competitive home is any more likely to be a 'good' home for a horse, in terms of being well looked after.
		
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But not necessarily a competitive one - if looking at sales catalogue/low end adverts would you not be more interested in something with a proven record (or parents with a proven record) than something completely random - even if you wanted it for happy hacking? Being able to look back and find comp records (without a lot of eliminations for falls and stopping xc!) gives people reassurance that horse has trainable attitude, no?


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## GirlFriday (3 December 2017)

WeeLassie said:



			If I was buying a horse and I found its passport had been 'lost' and a new name given (which is illegal anyway,you cant legally have 2 passports on one microchip) I would immediately suspect the horse to be dodgy or stolen....
		
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Just remembered - was it poor old OP who had the stolen horse box (not stolen by her I hasten to add!) to sell? Whole thread kicked off with people saying they'd be put off by that (me included). I'd suggest that this is a similar thing... Perfectly good intentions of OP, but one of those things that can make things look bad. So, unless Ludo has a history of being (k)nicked and 'missing' for a couple of years much the best that he retains his 'full' history...


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## ycbm (3 December 2017)

GirlFriday said:



			You'll effectively be placing the 9 foals in this position as they'll be no record for them that their dad went on to compete
		
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I honestly can't see that it matters at the bottom end of the market. 

I buy the horse I see in front of me at that level,  not its breeding. Doesn't everyone?


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## WeeLassie (3 December 2017)

ycbm said:



			I could legally change my name without leaving my chair right now.  It is about controlling what someone chooses to call their own property. I understand the reasons, but you can't rightly say it's not control.
		
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I dont like the concept of a horse being 'property' - he is who his parents are and he has the name and prefix he was given. His breeder is named as the owner of the prefix so they can always be traced, and they can always trace their horses. 'Losing passports' and 'forgetting the PIO' is not only illegal, it serves no purpose except to hide a horses real identity.


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## ycbm (3 December 2017)

GirlFriday said:



			Just remembered - was it poor old OP who had the stolen horse box (not stolen by her I hasten to add!) to sell? Whole thread kicked off with people saying they'd be put off by that (me included). I'd suggest that this is a similar thing... Perfectly good intentions of OP, but one of those things that can make things look bad. So, unless Ludo has a history of being (k)nicked and 'missing' for a couple of years much the best that he retains his 'full' history...
		
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What is this post even supposed to mean?  'Poor old OP' sold her perfectly legitimate horse box a month ago . Though what it has to do with this thread, I'm blowed if I know


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## ycbm (3 December 2017)

WeeLassie said:



			it serves no purpose except to hide a horses real identity.
		
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It serves the purpose of being able to compete under a name you actually like instead of one you don't like at all.  I'll be doing that unaffiliated anyway, with his stable name.


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## GirlFriday (3 December 2017)

ycbm said:



			What is this post even supposed to mean?  'Poor old OP' sold her perfectly legitimate horse box a month ago . Though what it has to do with this thread, I'm blowed if I know 

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It related to traceable history of horsebox; this relates to traceable history of horse. And I suspect you didn't get the responses you quite thought of on either thread - although (being old in forum-post-years if not rl ones) you'll know what this place can be like.


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## ycbm (3 December 2017)

GirlFriday said:



			And I suspect you didn't get the responses you quite thought of on either thread.
		
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'Poor old OP'  has no idea what that's supposed to mean either .

I found the discussion here very interesting and thought provoking, and the completely unrelated lorry pricing thread extremely useful. I'm grateful to everyone who posted in both threads.


PS I am not poor, but I certainly am old


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## Frumpoon (3 December 2017)

If he doesn't have a microchip I would just register him on a PIA passport of your choice with the name you want. I've recently had to apply for a duplicate passport and you just need the vet to complete the markings form from the PIA, they'll jab with a microchip and then you just post off with a cheque and maybe a self signed declaration of ownership or similar and then it comes in the post 3 weeks later


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## stormox (3 December 2017)

Frumpoon said:



			If he doesn't have a microchip I would just register him on a PIA passport of your choice with the name you want. I've recently had to apply for a duplicate passport and you just need the vet to complete the markings form from the PIA, they'll jab with a microchip and then you just post off with a cheque and maybe a self signed declaration of ownership or similar and then it comes in the post 3 weeks later
		
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The horse has a microchip and owner has a passport from a registered PIO with his registered name and breeders prefix for him. So it is illegal to apply for a different passport.


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## Frumpoon (3 December 2017)

Oh bum, yes the microchip makes it impossible unless it can't be detected for whatever reason

I have a horse that had a passport, a microchip, registered breeding but no registered name. Again that was relatively easy as I just dreamt up the name, filled out the form and posted passport, form and cheque...that's probably not very helpful though is it


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## Abi90 (3 December 2017)

Frumpoon said:



			Oh bum, yes the microchip makes it impossible unless it can't be detected for whatever reason

I have a horse that had a passport, a microchip, registered breeding but no registered name. Again that was relatively easy as I just dreamt up the name, filled out the form and posted passport, form and cheque...that's probably not very helpful though is it
		
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Mine was the same, her registered "name" was "unknown", so I gave her a name


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## stormox (3 December 2017)

With the irish horse board most people dont name them as foals unless they have a registered prefix. New owners name them when they  get the horse put into their name.
But OPs horse has a registered name with the breeders prefix. I really dont think she should change that, after all what is the point of us breeders paying for our prefixes so we can keep track of our horses, and therefore see if we are on the right track with our breeding programme if people can just change it? it is also a good advert for our stock if one with our prefix does well.


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## ycbm (3 December 2017)

stormox said:



			what is the point of us breeders paying for our prefixes
		
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For the same reason people pay to register trade marks. So that nobody can pass off their product as yours. 




			so we can keep track of our horses, and therefore see if we are on the right track with our breeding programme if people can just change it? it is also a good advert for our stock if one with our prefix does well.
		
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Horse was bred as a trotter and should be racing by now. I doubt if the breeder gives a damn about whether he does some affiliated dressage in another three years time.  And I would be more than happy to prevent him entering the harness racing world by making him untraceable.

I think I'll contact his breeder and ask if he will agree a name change. As has been pointed out, to do anything else would be illegal.


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## milliepops (3 December 2017)

DabDab said:



			All three of mine have a prefix that pertains to the breeder and I would feel very uncomfortable changing that - one has a breed society passport, the other two a generic petplan. It actually annoys me more that the younger two are on a generic passport, and the breeding isn't properly recorded tbh. The names are the only bit of traceability I have for them really
		
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I have one on a generic passport which I find similarly irritating as I know her breeding but it's not recorded.  Shame. I added the HAPPA prefix to hers so that she had some kind of identity before we started affiliated competition as I didn't want her to be Millie XV or whatever...  this was before HAPPA did it themselves 

The blinking Welsh diva is named after a Star Trek character, talk about rubbish names  wouldn't dream of changing it, I would love to meet another with the same prefix.



GirlFriday said:



			But not necessarily a competitive one - if looking at sales catalogue/low end adverts would you not be more interested in something with a proven record (or parents with a proven record) than something completely random - even if you wanted it for happy hacking?
		
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I only bought my latest project at the local cheapo sales because I recognised the breeding/sire. I think she's going to be a goodun but wouldn't have bothered going to look without that info. I have changed her stable name but the random passport name will stay


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## crabbymare (3 December 2017)

The problem with changing passported names of horses with or without a microchip is that the breeder will find it almost impossible to trace the offspring. How am "I" to trace a horse that "I" bred say 6 years ago, who is now out competing? If the horse has a name on the passport and is registered with that name I can trace him/her. If the horse has a change of name and is registered with British Dressage I cannot think oh sure I can look him or her up by the breeding , or life number or microchip, as they are not searchable. This means that the horse I registered as Neddy on the passport and is on the pedigree sites as being her offspring, would not have results showing as Neddy is now GeeGee.


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## popsdosh (3 December 2017)

YCBM you do crack me up! so full of your own self importance to not recognise that without breeders taking the trouble to breed these horses you wouldnt have anything to complain about.  What makes you personally the arbiter of whether a breeder cares about what they are breeding. Take it from me anybody who puts their prefix in front of a name does and the level at which it competes is not an issue as each to their own.  Those who breed rubbish very rarely put their names to them . There is a very large sports horse breeder and producer who names non of theirs until they are broken and assessed ,you will never see their cast offs carrying the prefix or any other way of telling where they come from.
You do love winding people up and being rude one of the reasons I very rarely comment on here anymore it gets boring. Couldnt let this one go though.
Out of all the comebacks so far you still have not answered a very simple question. Knowing what the rules are why did you buy it in the first place if you really cannot stand its name I know people who dont. Luckily we are never likely to be in a position where you may be looking to buy one of mine ,with your attitude you would be told to take a hike and let somebody who knows what their doing have the horse.


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## McFluff (3 December 2017)

Names and what you can do with them are interesting. I agree with others that the breeder prefix should be kept, although I do think that breeders shouldn't be too out there or risky with names as surely they want future owners to be proud of them. 

My cobs have no breeding or info on their passports. They are just registered with their stable names. The older gelding has remained that way - never competed so no issue. I compete my mare though and didn't want to be number 18 of the name with BD so added to her name. The passport still shows her previous name underneath. I presume now that she has a competition record her name can't (shouldn't?) be changed? I have no intention of ever selling her, but would imagine that once a horse has points things shouldn't be changed. 

I knew that I couldn't change my retired racehorses name. Didn't like the registered name, but it was hers and it did let me see her breeding and race history. And, on reflection, I'd rather have the ability to research history and a name I didn't really like, compared to a name I can change easily but no traceable info on my horse. 

When I see horses competing I always assume that the rider has inherited the name so wouldn't think they were the 'numpty' if a name doesn't seem to fit the horse!


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## ycbm (3 December 2017)

crabbymare said:



			The problem with changing passported names of horses with or without a microchip is that the breeder will find it almost impossible to trace the offspring. How am "I" to trace a horse that "I" bred say 6 years ago, who is now out competing? If the horse has a name on the passport and is registered with that name I can trace him/her. If the horse has a change of name and is registered with British Dressage I cannot think oh sure I can look him or her up by the breeding , or life number or microchip, as they are not searchable. This means that the horse I registered as Neddy on the passport and is on the pedigree sites as being her offspring, would not have results showing as Neddy is now GeeGee.
		
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Well that's the essence of the problem, isn't it?  The one thing that is guaranteed to stay with the horse unless it (rarely) fails, is not traceable. Should it not be, given that one of the reasons the rules are there is bio security?  I've googled my guy's chip and it is not traceable, unless you were to contact every PIA and ask them to search their records. I did a thread not long ago on whether people follow the law with their passports. The poll gave a very interesting result. Passports do also genuinely get lost and owners not remember which of hundreds of organisations it was with.    I can't, right now, remember who my paint is papered with, and if the guy he is with loses it then I will have to get him a new one. The chaotic system we have gives no guarantee of any horse maintaining its traceability. 


Popsdosh, you sound more and more like a sour old crone these days. I answered your question pages ago. The personal abuse I am getting from you is increasing and unnecessary, please stop.


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## popsdosh (3 December 2017)

Touched a nerve then ! Its ok for you to rubbish people without knowing the first thing about them as per your assumptions about breeders! 

Carry on please soon you will be the only poster left on here ,many have left already fed up with your attitude.


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## claude rains (3 December 2017)

Considering you've said the below about the horse on your other thread then surely that is a very good reason to keep his breeder's prefix. What a shame that they've bred a  horse that you say moves better than all these other warmbloods etc etc if you then disown his breeding by re microchipping him and changing his name. 

"I have watched him move, walk trot and canter, and I honestly think that he has better paces than a dressage warmblood by a GP stallion which I used to own. He really lifts and floats, and he has a huge length of stride. He's a very exciting prospect for a couple of years time. I plan to back him and ride him gently next year when he is three, if he is strong enough. 

He already has a dished face which I'm hoping will get bigger. I knew he moved well but I only saw him trot across a bumpy field. Now I've seen him trot on the flat and canter across a cropped piece of field, and I think I have totally fallen on my feet. I've never owned a horse who moved better. I'm including three big moving warmbloods with GP sires in that, too. 
A dressage friend who breeds warmbloods saw his walk yesterday and was so astonished she almost swore, and she never does.
I have some strides on the video that won't load from two days ago where he takes up a perfect long and low outline and trots absolutely beautifully. He has a lot of suspension, elegance and a great overtrack. I think he's the best mover I've ever owned."
Read more at https://forums-secure.horseandhound...ld-welcome-for-Ludo/page4#CtwZXwxAXmPBFAti.99


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## claret09 (3 December 2017)

totally agree. just enjoy your horse


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## Boulty (4 December 2017)

I dislike my Welsh idiots passport name as it is simply far too boring for him plus I can neither spell nor pronounce the breeder prefix.  As I mainly compete unaff I simply opt to use his stable name instead as it saves mispronounced / mispelt names and I am currently getting away with using it for TREC as well.  If I did anything really proper and serious then I guess I'd have to use the boring name.  (If you really hate it then depending on passport agency I think you can change it but they'll leave the original name in brackets?  Would keep the breeder prefix if you do this though)


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## GirlFriday (4 December 2017)

ycbm said:



			I can't, right now, remember who my paint is papered with, and if the guy he is with loses it then I will have to get him a new one.
		
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Nah - you could just Google it - here you go: http://www.standardbred.org/files/newsletter/issue65.pdf

So, greater rule-breaking required on your part if you're determined on this on OP.

Of course, if you'd already changed the name I'd not have been able to see his breeding...


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## HashRouge (4 December 2017)

What are the rules on name changing a passport horse? Can you do it with breeder's permission (as OP is suggesting)? If so and the OP gets permission, I don't see what the fuss is about. I'm not hugely bothered about names myself and think my Arab's registered name is stupid, but then again I never competed her regularly and had to hear it read over the tannoy!


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## HashRouge (4 December 2017)

GirlFriday said:



			Nah - you could just Google it - here you go: http://www.standardbred.org/files/newsletter/issue65.pdf

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After looking at some of those names I think you got off light ycbm... Gas Supply, Gas Tank and Gassey Boy are my personal favourites


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## HashRouge (4 December 2017)

Keltic Supper Girl?? I'm assuming that's a typo and they think they've called their horse Super Girl


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## OldNag (4 December 2017)

I would keep his name. 

If people really do laugh at BD (I doubt they would but I have never done BD so could be wrong), who cares?


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## ycbm (4 December 2017)

GirlFriday said:



			Nah - you could just Google it - here you go: http://www.standardbred.org/files/newsletter/issue65.pdf

So, greater rule-breaking required on your part if you're determined on this on OP.

Of course, if you'd already changed the name I'd not have been able to see his breeding...
		
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You are confusing two different horses.


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## ihatework (4 December 2017)

GirlFriday said:



			Nah - you could just Google it - here you go: http://www.standardbred.org/files/newsletter/issue65.pdf

So, greater rule-breaking required on your part if you're determined on this on OP.

Of course, if you'd already changed the name I'd not have been able to see his breeding...
		
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Looking at that you have clearly got a breeders prefix and also 2015 look to be &#8216;P&#8217;. I think it would be wrong to change this name. But we all know she will regardless


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## ycbm (4 December 2017)

A question I woke with in my head. None of mine or my friend's continental bred horses (seven between us)  have had stud prefixes. Why don't the Germans and Dutch seem to care so much?


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## ycbm (4 December 2017)

ihatework said:



			Looking at that you have clearly got a breeders prefix and also 2015 look to be &#8216;P&#8217;. I think it would be wrong to change this name. But we all know she will regardless
		
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My mother used to say 'She's the cat's mother.' I have no idea what that meant, but it wasn't polite about the person who said 'She did xyz'   

I've found some of the points raised very persuasive. It was good to be reminded how good I think he is, which is clearly due to his breeder and he should keep his stud name. 


What is the situation with owning a colt and breeding from him? Can you just issue yourself a covering certificate and passport the offspring with the father's name? Because if not, then his babies certainly won't carry his name in their passports and it would be nice if they did.


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## Tiddlypom (4 December 2017)

ycbm said:



			I've found some of the points raised very persuasive. *It was good to be reminded how good I think he is, which is clearly due to his breeder and he should keep his stud name. *

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Hallelujah!


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## The Fuzzy Furry (4 December 2017)

ycbm said:



			What is the situation with owning a colt and breeding from him? Can you just issue yourself a covering certificate and passport the offspring with the father's name? Because if not, then his babies certainly won't carry his name in their passports and it would be nice if they did.
		
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Yes, he (breeder) can issue his own covering certs, and then register stock with his chosen place.
With some passport agencies (most Breeds) they may well need to have a stallion inspection before stock can be fully registered.
Fillies from registered stock can usually be entered immediately, colts for some societies are entered, but if not changed to gelding by 2 or 3 yrs (dependant on society) then usually colt must be inspected to be licenced, or any progeny by said colt is not eligable.

I suspect in your case ycbm, that the breeder is trying to get a stud going, always hard. Am suprised your lad wasn't inspected before you had him. That said, at least Breeder is trying to make a start in registering breeding details


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## ycbm (4 December 2017)

The Fuzzy Furry said:



			Yes, he (breeder) can issue his own covering certs, and then register stock with his chosen place.
With some passport agencies (most Breeds) they may well need to have a stallion inspection before stock can be fully registered.
Fillies from registered stock can usually be entered immediately, colts for some societies are entered, but if not changed to gelding by 2 or 3 yrs (dependant on society) then usually colt must be inspected to be licenced, or any progeny by said colt is not eligable.

I suspect in your case ycbm, that the breeder is trying to get a stud going, always hard. Am suprised your lad wasn't inspected before you had him. That said, at least Breeder is trying to make a start in registering breeding details 

Click to expand...

There are two different breeders involved FF. His breeder is a long standing breeder of registered trotters who used an unregistered sire for him, the only one of that year's crop that does not have a registered father. They sold him as a yearling to the breeder I bought him from. That is a long established breeder for the bottom end of the market (think field full of mares and a colt,  fenced with trailing barbed wire and baler twine) who used him for one year to sire some foals which are due next year. They will definitely be papered generically, but with a breed society. 

Interestingly, he was sold as 'too good to be a stallion'  in his advert, make of that what you will !


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## ycbm (4 December 2017)

Tiddlypom said:



			Hallelujah!
		
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Well it is Christmas, after all


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## popsdosh (4 December 2017)

The Fuzzy Furry said:



			Yes, he (breeder) can issue his own covering certs, and then register stock with his chosen place.
With some passport agencies (most Breeds) they may well need to have a stallion inspection before stock can be fully registered.
Fillies from registered stock can usually be entered immediately, colts for some societies are entered, but if not changed to gelding by 2 or 3 yrs (dependant on society) then usually colt must be inspected to be licenced, or any progeny by said colt is not eligable.

I suspect in your case ycbm, that the breeder is trying to get a stud going, always hard. Am suprised your lad wasn't inspected before you had him. That said, at least Breeder is trying to make a start in registering breeding details 

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Actually the breeder has been going for 40yrs plus ,they know what they are doing. Obviously have a very good reason to sell and not wanting to breed more from him.


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## ycbm (4 December 2017)

popsdosh said:



			Actually the breeder has been going for 40yrs plus ,they know what they are doing. Obviously have a very good reason to sell and not wanting to breed more from him.
		
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Morning PD!  Sleep well?


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## LadySam (4 December 2017)

ycbm, I think you have ultimately made the right decision.  Even if his lineage can only be traced through his dam (and therefore, only his dam's offspring that can be traced), that's what there is to work with and I personally think that shouldn't be trifled with.  And if he does become a little dressage star, and anyone does try to trace him, I don't think there will be any doubt as to who to credit for his dressage chops!   It kind of does you a favour in that respect, if you look on the bright side.

There was one thing I really wanted to reply to:



ycbm said:



			Doesn't anyone find it odd to sell something and want the right to control what it's called for the rest of its life? In any other walk of life, if you want control you have to keep ownership, don't you?
		
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No.  The first thing that came to mind for me was works of art.  The artist - the one who created it in the first place - gets to name it, and quite rightly.  Dumb name or no, that's how it's identified.  And some works of art that are considered to be of no consequence when they are first created gradually have their worth revealed, and it's through that that our appreciation of lots of the artist's work can mature.

For example, consider the painter Georges Seurat.  These days his work is seen as beautiful, brilliant, iconic and revolutionary.  Yet he never sold a single painting in his lifetime.  His first major work, _Bathers at Asnières_, was rejected by the Paris salon and confused the hell out of his contemporaries, to the point many thought it was rubbish - yet now it hangs in the National Gallery in London and is one of the gallery's jewels.  Imagine if someone had bought it but hated its name and changed it.  It could be hanging today in someone's loo, unappreciated, and the world might never know it.

Who knows what else his dam or breeder could produce?  Or what Ludo's progeny will do?  If there is a good reason in future to look it up, Ludo would not be able to be part of that story if he had a name change.

I dunno.  Maybe it's a long bow to draw, but that's the comparison that came to mind.

Anyway.  At least he isn't a Quarter Horse.  I have quite a lot of those on my books and collectively they have some of the stupidest names I've ever seen. I thought my Quarter Horse mare's name was stupid, but I see they have gotten a lot stupider over the years!


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## claude rains (4 December 2017)

ycbm said:



			Interestingly, he was sold as 'too good to be a stallion'  in his advert, make of that what you will !
		
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Heres Henry, 2 Year Old Colt
Heres Henry, 2 Year Old Colt
Heres Henry, stunning Appaloosa colt, rising 3, to make 16hh, trotter x Appaloosa. Seen traffic. Loads well.
Has been turned out with mares all summer. Good to catch, excellent temperament.
Has potential for any discipline, wasted as a stallion hence sale.

Too good to be a stallion or wasted as a stallion?


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## crabbymare (4 December 2017)

ycbm said:



			A question I woke with in my head. None of mine or my friend's continental bred horses (seven between us)  have had stud prefixes. Why don't the Germans and Dutch seem to care so much?
		
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I learnt after I named my foal that in Germany that with most registries the name is not set until the horse is registered either for sport with their FN, as a mare on entry to the studbook at 3+ years old, or as a stallion after licencing. Horses can have onbe name for the studbook (breeding) and another for competition, but that does not happen often.


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## ycbm (4 December 2017)

claude rains said:



			Heres Henry, 2 Year Old Colt
Heres Henry, 2 Year Old Colt
Here&#8217;s Henry, stunning Appaloosa colt, rising 3, to make 16hh, trotter x Appaloosa. Seen traffic. Loads well.
Has been turned out with mares all summer. Good to catch, excellent temperament.
Has potential for any discipline, wasted as a stallion hence sale.

Too good to be a stallion or wasted as a stallion?
		
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Well they mean the same to me, but if not to you, then that's fine. They meant too good, because it's what they said when I met them.


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## ycbm (4 December 2017)

LadySam said:



			ycbm, I think you have ultimately made the right decision.  Even if his lineage can only be traced through his dam (and therefore, only his dam's offspring that can be traced), that's what there is to work with and I personally think that shouldn't be trifled with.  And if he does become a little dressage star, and anyone does try to trace him, I don't think there will be any doubt as to who to credit for his dressage chops!   It kind of does you a favour in that respect, if you look on the bright side.

There was one thing I really wanted to reply to:


No.  The first thing that came to mind for me was works of art.  The artist - the one who created it in the first place - gets to name it, and quite rightly.  Dumb name or no, that's how it's identified.  And some works of art that are considered to be of no consequence when they are first created gradually have their worth revealed, and it's through that that our appreciation of lots of the artist's work can mature.

For example, consider the painter Georges Seurat.  These days his work is seen as beautiful, brilliant, iconic and revolutionary.  Yet he never sold a single painting in his lifetime.  His first major work, _Bathers at Asnières_, was rejected by the Paris salon and confused the hell out of his contemporaries, to the point many thought it was rubbish - yet now it hangs in the National Gallery in London and is one of the gallery's jewels.  Imagine if someone had bought it but hated its name and changed it.  It could be hanging today in someone's loo, unappreciated, and the world might never know it.

Who knows what else his dam or breeder could produce?  Or what Ludo's progeny will do?  If there is a good reason in future to look it up, Ludo would not be able to be part of that story if he had a name change.

I dunno.  Maybe it's a long bow to draw, but that's the comparison that came to mind.

Anyway.  At least he isn't a Quarter Horse.  I have quite a lot of those on my books and collectively they have some of the stupidest names I've ever seen. I thought my Quarter Horse mare's name was stupid, but I see they have gotten a lot stupider over the years!  

Click to expand...

Great post, thank you. Thankfully my QHx is generically registered and has a fabulous name.


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## rara007 (4 December 2017)

Are you sure hes even from that breeder- I dont think you can race without both parents recorded? I have a pony with a fake prefix (since been OKed by the true holder of it and gelded anyway).


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## ycbm (4 December 2017)

rara007 said:



			Are you sure he&#8217;s even from that breeder- I don&#8217;t think you can race without both parents recorded? I have a pony with a fake prefix (since been OKed by the true holder of it and gelded anyway).
		
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Yes, definitely, he's on the Standardbred register as  (PB) which I assume means part bred. The people I bought him from saw his mother and father. If he can't race it does make me wonder why they bred him, and whether he was simply a (lucky) mistake. I plan to contact his breeder and ask if we can change the Patch to something else beginning with P that will work better with his adult colour, which is not bay with one white patch as per his passport, but nearly white with a lot of conker colour spots. Then his foals can be papered to the same name and we can all be happy 


Ideas for what the P could become are welcome!   I quite like Previously Patchy as already suggested


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## DD (4 December 2017)

I'm with ycbm on this. when I bred competition foals I let the buyer choose the names. most were astounded. the animal was only ever with me for a few months in its life so I decided whoever wanted to buy it train it keep it love it should choose the name. some let me know of the registered name they chose all told me the stable names. breeders egos get in the way. why should the breeder take all the credit for a horse when someone else has put in years of dedicated hard work to get the horse up to a high standard.


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## Elf On A Shelf (4 December 2017)

Downton Dame said:



			I'm with ycbm on this. when I bred competition foals I let the buyer choose the names. most were astounded. the animal was only ever with me for a few months in its life so I decided whoever wanted to buy it train it keep it love it should choose the name. some let me know of the registered name they chose all told me the stable names. breeders egos get in the way. why should the breeder take all the credit for a horse when someone else has put in years of dedicated hard work to get the horse up to a high standard.
		
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Most breeders spend years researching lines, buying the right mares, finding the best stallion match to produce the best offspring they can. It's not just a case of bunging any old mare and and old stallion in a field and hope it comes out good! Then you have the whole keeping of the mare whilst pregnant, the birth, associated vets visits even when things go perfectly etc. And all the mental and physical blood sweat and tears that it takes just to get that foal to weaning!


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## Lanky Loll (4 December 2017)

ycbm said:



			Yes, definitely, he's on the Standardbred register as  (PB) which I assume means part bred. The people I bought him from saw his mother and father. If he can't race it does make me wonder why they bred him, and whether he was simply a (lucky) mistake. I plan to contact his breeder and ask if we can change the Patch to something else beginning with P that will work better with his adult colour, which is not bay with one white patch as per his passport, but nearly white with a lot of conker colour spots. Then his foals can be papered to the same name and we can all be happy 


Ideas for what the P could become are welcome!   I quite like Previously Patchy as already suggested 

Click to expand...

I suspect that he was one of the many attempts to breed a fast coloured pacer  there are a few around racing under rules and are pretty much always slower than their solid counterparts to the point that they have races just for them.
Given his dam's name if he goes back to Stoneriggs JR on the dam side (and given that he's from JRs stud that is a reasonable assumption)  then he's got some great dam line pedigree - it's just possible that they put her to an unreg (possibly road racing - totally hypothetical here) stallion to try and finally get a fast one.
FWIW we put one of our ex-racing standies to a spotty stallion on two occasions, she threw 2 enormous colts despite neither parentbeing very big, who both went on to Novice BE level, so it's not a cross that would put me off if I was looking for a riding horse


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## ycbm (4 December 2017)

EKW that is really nice to know, thank you. He seems to me to not throw his legs far enough behind him to make a good trotter, but heck what do I know about harness racing . All I know is I was pleased to see him step right under and power upwards, not push off the legs and have them flying out behind him. I bought the horse in front of me.

I'm pretty sure he's not going to stop at 16 hands despite his parents being smaller.  He's only two and since he has been on the hills, over a week now, he has shot up in height and must be approaching 15.2 already. So it's interesting to hear that your mare bred big males to a similar combination.


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## Lanky Loll (4 December 2017)

Some of them move amazingly - one of our home breds had a stunning trot and collected canter, sadly she stopped growing at 15.2 and although I would have loved to have kept her once she finished racing she was just too small for me  Another of ours had a proper show pony "daisy cutter" trot - was amazing to watch when he flicked over  
With the standies we used to breed for a good strong thigh as that's where the power comes from - also makes for a good jumper ;-)

I remember JR as having a good knee action - his son "Fearless JR" was also amazing racing "free legged" (no hopples) and beating the others off a 60 yard handicap - they're both harness legends: http://www.bhrc.org.uk/racing/hall-of-fame/horses/stoneriggs-j-r/


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## DD (4 December 2017)

EKW said:



			Most breeders spend years researching lines, buying the right mares, finding the best stallion match to produce the best offspring they can. It's not just a case of bunging any old mare and and old stallion in a field and hope it comes out good! Then you have the whole keeping of the mare whilst pregnant, the birth, associated vets visits even when things go perfectly etc. And all the mental and physical blood sweat and tears that it takes just to get that foal to weaning!
		
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I know been there done it got the t-shirt. I still let the buyer choose the name.


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## ester (4 December 2017)

polkadot


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## popsdosh (4 December 2017)

claude rains said:



			Heres Henry, 2 Year Old Colt
Heres Henry, 2 Year Old Colt
Heres Henry, stunning Appaloosa colt, rising 3, to make 16hh, trotter x Appaloosa. Seen traffic. Loads well.
Has been turned out with mares all summer. Good to catch, excellent temperament.
Has potential for any discipline, wasted as a stallion hence sale.

Too good to be a stallion or wasted as a stallion?
		
Click to expand...

inbox overload


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## ycbm (4 December 2017)

popsdosh said:



			inbox overload
		
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Can I help Popsdosh? I can tell you anything you want to know about the advert. It was on Dragon Driving, you'll find it easily if you Google it.


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## popsdosh (4 December 2017)

ycbm said:



			Can I help Popsdosh? I can tell you anything you want to know about the advert. It was on Dragon Driving, you'll find it easily if you Google it.
		
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Keep your nose out its nothing to do with you! Didnt quote you.  If you had asked you would know good trotters dont throw their legs behind them ,hope he doesnt start pacing it does nothing for your dressage marks!


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## Frumpoon (4 December 2017)

Pas de Piece...meaning...errrr...not Patch?


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## ycbm (4 December 2017)

Dupe


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## ycbm (4 December 2017)

popsdosh said:



			Keep your nose out its nothing to do with you! Didnt quote you.  If you had asked you would know good trotters dont throw their legs behind them ,hope he doesnt start pacing it does nothing for your dressage marks! 

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What a lovely man you are 

If you say so, PD, though I did say I know nothing about harness racing, I only find pictures of trotters looking like this at full stretch, or even more extreme extension backwards of the hind leg.


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## ycbm (4 December 2017)

Frumpoon said:



			Pas de Piece...meaning...errrr...not Patch?
		
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Ooh, clever!


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## popsdosh (4 December 2017)

Just ignore me like im trying to with you! However as per usual you cannot help yourself if you cant handle it dont poke the fire (2Xs today)so go on keep making a prat of yourself ! I think my time will be better spent starting an unpopularity pole guess you will win hands down if my PMs dont lie


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## ycbm (4 December 2017)

You need the user ignore function PD.


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## popsdosh (4 December 2017)

ycbm said:



			You need the user ignore function PD.
		
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What and miss out on the fun of watching somebody else making a total prat of themselves!


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## ycbm (4 December 2017)

No problem. Enjoy.


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## Frumpoon (4 December 2017)

Are you guys secretly married?


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## MotherOfChickens (4 December 2017)

Frumpoon said:



			Are you guys secretly married?
		
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 sorry PD and co, this made me lol.


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## ycbm (4 December 2017)

Frumpoon said:



			Are you guys secretly married?
		
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Still on honeymoon


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## McFluff (4 December 2017)

MotherOfChickens said:



 sorry PD and co, this made me lol.
		
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Haha, me too ...


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## Annagain (4 December 2017)

I hate my share horse's registered name, as does his owner. It is, frankly, far too girly for a 17hh chunky monkey of a gelding. We never used it until I started doing some BRC with him and we had to use his passport name as the rules demanded. Within a couple of days of results being published online, my riding club got an email from his breeder (as it happens, I look after the email account). She'd been trying to track him down for years and regularly googled his name in the hope something would ping up sooner or later. She now visits us about twice a year, has given us loads of baby pics of him and filled in the relatively small gap we had in his history. As much as I hate it, I'm really pleased we never changed it!


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## Merlod (5 December 2017)

I think it&#8217;s a bit unfair for people to think removing credit from the breeder is ok because &#8220;they didn&#8217;t produce/train it&#8221; &#8211; no they just put their time, effort and money into selecting and keeping their breeding stock, breeding the foal, raising and keeping a it safe and healthy until it was sold (and probably not for much, if any, profit). I don&#8217;t really like my horses passport/show name but I use it in competition and registered events in order to keep his prefix as credit to his breeder (and for anyone wishing to look up his breeding) and like it has been said if it bothered me that much I didn&#8217;t have to buy him. Personally I think the naff show names that the owner has obviously just made up themselves are worse.


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## ycbm (5 December 2017)

(Edited in line with a change of wording in post replied to)

Interesting,  though, that it has been suggested earlier by Popsdosh that big reputable studs don't put their prefix on stock that don't come up to standard. If that's true, that somewhat destroys the argument that other people buying related stock need to know the horse's relatives' histories.

I'm struggling to think of anything worse than the breeder assigned 'Head and Arse' someone mentioned earlier


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## Merlod (5 December 2017)

Have updated to avoid confusion but i'm sure the point was understandable. I don't breed any myself, but do work within the breeding industry and that's not something I have ever personally come across and probably not a relevant reason to someone choosing not to use the studs prefix for simply not liking the name which was the point of this thread (not for personal reasons or as a stand against the ethics of a breeder).


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## ycbm (5 December 2017)

I'll edit my response to avoid confusion too .


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## Merlod (5 December 2017)

Reading through I see you&#8217;ve had much food for thought, good luck with your new horse and if he&#8217;s out there doing well I&#8217;m sure no one will laugh at his name when it&#8217;s top of the board (that&#8217;s what I tell myself anyway)!!


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## ycbm (5 December 2017)

Merlod said:



			Reading through I see you&#8217;ve had much food for thought, good luck with your new horse and if he&#8217;s out there doing well I&#8217;m sure no one will laugh at his name when it&#8217;s top of the board (that&#8217;s what I tell myself anyway)!!
		
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Thank you.  I thought it had been an interesting discussion. I love the horse, anyway!


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## Embo (5 December 2017)

Just wanted to say, sometimes a breeder's prefix can be added by mistake. 

My horse has a generic white Irish passport. His prefix is BVS. I've been in touch with Brosna View and they told me they didn't breed my horse, they only had him in for breaking & selling. 

I'm not keen on BVS Raheen, but it's better than just Raheen  

I actually wouldn't mind a spotty horse called 'Patch'. I find the irony quite cute.


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## ycbm (5 December 2017)

DHI add DHI to whatever they can and want to brand as theirs, whether they bred it or not.  It really brings into question the value of a registered prefix to the buyer, that's purely a marketing name if all they did was buy the horse and name it.  Depends on the prefix, I suppose.

The irony is growing on me. Patch is also the name of a101 Dalmatian puppy, but a naughty one!


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## ihatework (5 December 2017)

Embo said:



			Just wanted to say, sometimes a breeder's prefix can be added by mistake. 

My horse has a generic white Irish passport. His prefix is BVS. I've been in touch with Brosna View and they told me they didn't breed my horse, they only had him in for breaking & selling. 

I'm not keen on BVS Raheen, but it's better than just Raheen  

I actually wouldn't mind a spotty horse called 'Patch'. I find the irony quite cute.
		
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That&#8217;s not uncommon. Just standard branding.
I had a Cooley horse that wasn&#8217;t bred by Richard Sheene


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## Frumpoon (5 December 2017)

Yes wàs going to say Cooley do that with any decent horse they come across


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## Auslander (5 December 2017)

I wish I could trace Alfs breeding - but with a replacement passport, and at least two name changes, I've had to accept that it's not going to happen. Seems a shame, as he's such a superstar that I'd give my eye teeth to get my hands on a younger brother! It would be interesting to find out if his talent is down to nature or nurture


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