# Ask the Expert: Dr Catherine Dunnett with Keyflow®



## HHO admin (29 October 2013)

Dr Catherine Dunnet (pictured) is a world renowned equine nutritionist and the founder of Independent Equine Nutrition (I.E.N) based near Newmarket, Suffolk. 

Together with leading research nutritionist Dr Ray Biffin from Australia, Dr Dunnett is responsible for the formulation and ongoing technical support of Keyflow's innovative, award-winning range of feeds. I.E.N is independent and works with Keyflow on a consultancy basis. 

Cath is available to answer any questions you have about feeding your horse or pony. Please post your questions below and Cath will respond as soon as possible. 







If you would like to find out more about Keyflow visit:
http://www.keyflowfeeds.com
https://www.facebook.com/keyflowuk
https://twitter.com/keyflow


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## summer03 (30 October 2013)

HHO admin said:



			Dr Catherine Dunnet (pictured) is a world renowned equine nutritionist and the founder of Independent Equine Nutrition (I.E.N) based near Newmarket, Suffolk. 

Together with leading research nutritionist Dr Ray Biffin from Australia, Dr Dunnett is responsible for the formulation and ongoing technical support of Keyflow's innovative, award-winning range of feeds. I.E.N is independent and works with Keyflow on a consultancy basis. 

Cath is available to answer any questions you have about feeding your horse or pony. Please post your questions below and Cath will respond as soon as possible. 







If you would like to find out more about Keyflow visit:
http://www.keyflowfeeds.com
https://www.facebook.com/keyflowuk
https://twitter.com/keyflow

Click to expand...

Hi just wondered what advice you would give for that age old dilemma of how to feed the fizzy/hot type of horse who struggles to hold weight over the winter?


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## Feisty Mare (30 October 2013)

What winter feed regime would you suggest for a poor doer, previously suffered from ulcers? Fed ad lib haylage or hay.


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## Lucinda (30 October 2013)

I would like to ask Dr Dunnett if feeding anything can help mud fever? My horse has a small amount of mud fever on her right pastern and she is fed Baileys Performance Balancer and speedibeet daily, plus she is out 24/7 on a mixture of wetted hay and strip-grazed grass. Would you advise any extra supplements (eaten) to boost the immune system etc?


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## Tronk (30 October 2013)

Hi my question is what can I feed my 17  year old 17hh part TB for more energy? At the mo he has a handful of fast fibre to soak up his supplement (pro hoof which is helping his feet) plus half a Stubbs scoop of rolled oats.  Have tried A&P power & performance and it made no difference. I would say his condition score is a 2,5/3. He's well and reasonably fit - just lacking the extra bit if oomph. Thank you.


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## paddi22 (30 October 2013)

i have a very highly strung, nervy exracer who got on great in the summer on just grass, but he's stabled now for winter. I want to keep him off cereals/sugar as much as possible but want to keep condition and shine on him. I was thinking of feeding baileys alfafa with oil,  some top spec balancer or outshine, relax me calmer and some coco soya oil, or a bit of copra coolstance. He will have haylage 3 times daily. Is that an ok feed regime or would i be better off just keeping him on grass nuts? , and what kind of amounts would suit a 16 hh in moderate/light work?


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## KeyflowUK (30 October 2013)

Thank-you for your questions so far, Dr Dunnett will be answering these questions in batches so please allow a day or two for a response. Thank-you for using this facility - The Keyflow Team


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## Nothing Original (30 October 2013)

Hi. I would like to ask what impact feeding carrots (maybe 10 - 15 a day in feeds plus couple for stretches) and offering Himalayan salt licks ad lib can have, and in particular if either could be contributing to a stubborn thrush problem. Have read recently that carrots should not be fed in any quantity due to sugar content and that salt licks can interfere with mineral balance and should be counterbalanced with Zinc and Copper. Thank you


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## northstarboy (30 October 2013)

my horse has had thrush on and off for the last 17 weeks
he has always suffered with thrush but
we can control the thrush
but we can't get his frogs to harden
i haven't been able to ride him because of the soft frogs
i have read in humans diet has a lot to do with thrush flare ups
sugar especially is a no no.
he has dried grass 200g, cubes 200g, lo cal balancer 200g and sugar beet shreds 500g
these amounts are split into 3 feeds/day.
he can lose weight but feeding this diet keeps him at his ideal weight
is there alternatives we can feed him to get rid of the sugar in his diet?


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## KeyflowUK (31 October 2013)

Feisty Mare said:



			What winter feed regime would you suggest for a poor doer, previously suffered from ulcers? Fed ad lib haylage or hay.
		
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Hi there  - Always start with plenty of good quality forage, hay or haylage and let them have as much as they will eat.  You can add to the forage by feeding some alfalfa chaff or chopped dried grass.   Then depending on how well this keeps the weight on you can either add a good quality balancer, or a concentrate feed both of which should be low in starch and sugar with the main source of energy coming from digestible fibre and oil.  Additional oil, micronised linseed or stabilised rice bran are also a great way of adding extra calories on top to maintain condition.  The quantities needed will obviously vary from horse to horse.  Hope that helps 

From the Keyflow range - try 
Mark Todd Perfect Balance Mark Todd Perfect Balance (steam extruded - cooked balancer) or Mark Todd Stay Cool Mark Todd Stay Cool, plus Key-3 Oil Key-3 Oil  or Key-Plus Key Plus (Steam extruded rice bran based topdress feed).

For specific advice from Keyflow email advice@keyflowfeeds.com or phone +44(0)1672 51 9000

- CD


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## KeyflowUK (31 October 2013)

Feisty Mare said:



			What winter feed regime would you suggest for a poor doer, previously suffered from ulcers? Fed ad lib haylage or hay.
		
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Our apologies, just getting used to this forum system and we got our replies mixed up. Feisty Mare the response to your question from Dr Dunnett is as follows:

Hi there - I would be inclined to feed ad lib hay rather than haylage, together with some alfalfa chaff which has a protective effect.  Any concentrate feed must to be very low in starch and must be fed on a little and often basis.  Top dress feeds like oil, micronized linseed can be used to increase calorie intake.  A proven supplement to help maintain gastric health (look for those with published scientific papers) is worth using to reduce the likelihood of the return of the ulcers.

From the Keyflow range  - try Mark Todd Stay Cool (with added Protexin pro-biotic) http://keyflowfeeds.com/product/mark-todd-stay-cool/, plus Key-3 Oil http://keyflowfeeds.com/product/key-3/

For specific advice from Keyflow advice@keyflowfeeds.com

- CD


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## KeyflowUK (31 October 2013)

summer03 said:



			Hi just wondered what advice you would give for that age old dilemma of how to feed the fizzy/hot type of horse who struggles to hold weight over the winter?
		
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Hi there - Always start with plenty of good quality forage, hay or haylage and let them have as much as they will eat. You can add to the forage by feeding some alfalfa chaff or chopped dried grass. Then depending on how well this keeps the weight on you can either add a good quality balancer, or a concentrate feed both of which should be low in starch and sugar with the main source of energy coming from digestible fibre and oil. Additional oil, micronised linseed or stabilised rice bran are also a great way of adding extra calories on top to maintain condition. The quantities needed will obviously vary from horse to horse. Hope that helps 

From the Keyflow range - try 
Mark Todd Perfect Balance http://keyflowfeeds.com/product/mark...rfect-balance/ (steam extruded - cooked balancer) or Mark Todd Stay Cool http://keyflowfeeds.com/product/mark-todd-stay-cool/, plus Key-3 Oil http://keyflowfeeds.com/product/key-3/ or Key-Plus http://keyflowfeeds.com/product/keyflow-key-plus/ (Steam extruded rice bran based topdress feed).

For specific advice from Keyflow email advice@keyflowfeeds.com or phone +44(0)1672 51 9000

- CD


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## KeyflowUK (31 October 2013)

Lucinda said:



			I would like to ask Dr Dunnett if feeding anything can help mud fever? My horse has a small amount of mud fever on her right pastern and she is fed Baileys Performance Balancer and speedibeet daily, plus she is out 24/7 on a mixture of wetted hay and strip-grazed grass. Would you advise any extra supplements (eaten) to boost the immune system etc?
		
Click to expand...

I am not aware of any feeds or supplements that can directly help mud fever, however, a robust immune system is likely to be important.  Good gut health is important for immune function as is a sufficient amount of quality protein in the diet which provides certain amino acids like glutamine that are important for immune function.  Your ration is already good from that perspective, with plenty of forage, a high fibre feed and a balancer providing quality protein and a concentrated source of vitamins and minerals.  Perhaps the only extra that I might suggest is a source of long chain omega 3 fatty acids that can help to maintain coat and skin health in some instances &#8211; this would be worth a try (so you are looking for products with a content of DHA and EPA, which are usually fish oil based but can also be derived from algae.

From the Keyflow range - try Key-3 Oil - advanced Omega 3 oil with EPA and DHA- http://keyflowfeeds.com/product/key-3/ 

For specific advice from Keyflow advice@keyflowfeeds.com

-CD


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## KeyflowUK (31 October 2013)

Tronk said:



			Hi my question is what can I feed my 17  year old 17hh part TB for more energy? At the mo he has a handful of fast fibre to soak up his supplement (pro hoof which is helping his feet) plus half a Stubbs scoop of rolled oats.  Have tried A&P power & performance and it made no difference. I would say his condition score is a 2,5/3. He's well and reasonably fit - just lacking the extra bit if oomph. Thank you.
		
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Hi there &#8211; ooh that&#8217;s a tricky one! Without seeing a photo it&#8217;s difficult to judge on the condition scoring which I am assuming you mean 3 out of 5, but you always need to be honest with yourself and ask if a horse is a bit overweight and strive towards a &#8216;fit not fat&#8217; body condition.  Also I would perhaps check with your vet and maybe have some bloods done to ensure there are no health issues rumbling away in the background which need treating.  I am presuming that he is out 24/7 as there is no mention of hay?  In addition there is also no mention of any source of vitamins and minerals added to the diet to balance it?  This is important as many are involved in muscle function and energy generating pathways.  I would be inclined to feed him a good balancer on top of your current ration, although you could use a straight forward vitamin and mineral supplement as an alternative.  I would try those things first and see how that goes and pop back if there is no improvement!



From the Keyflow range  - try Mark Todd Perfect Balance which is a unique fully steam extruded feed balancer- http://keyflowfeeds.com/product/mark-todd-perfect-balance/ For specific advice from Keyflow advice@keyflowfeeds.com

-CD


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## KeyflowUK (31 October 2013)

paddi22 said:



			i have a very highly strung, nervy exracer who got on great in the summer on just grass, but he's stabled now for winter. I want to keep him off cereals/sugar as much as possible but want to keep condition and shine on him. I was thinking of feeding baileys alfafa with oil,  some top spec balancer or outshine, relax me calmer and some coco soya oil, or a bit of copra coolstance. He will have haylage 3 times daily. Is that an ok feed regime or would i be better off just keeping him on grass nuts? , and what kind of amounts would suit a 16 hh in moderate/light work?
		
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Hi there &#8211; Depending on how well your chap keeps his weight on, you may struggle with just grass pellets over the winter.  I think your proposed diet sounds like a good option.  You need to find some very good hay or haylage and feed plenty of it, as much as he will eat and a 1-2 Kg of alfalfa chaff or dried grass will be a good addition.  Feed it in a bucket alongside his hay so that he has a choice of forage as this should increase intake.  You will need a source of vitamins and minerals, so a good quality low starch balancer is a good plan.  If the balancer alone won&#8217;t keep the weight on then opt for a low starch and sugar feed and just feed more of it.  A high oil feed to top dress as you suggest is a good idea but don&#8217;t over-do it with too many oil sources as you may find that his droppings get a bit loose which is counter-productive, so I would chose one and stick with it.  Whether your calming supplement has any positive benefit I could not say, but not many of them have any real evidence that they work, but as long as you realise that when you feed it and evaluate it accordingly.



From the Keyflow range  - try Mark Todd Perfect Balance which is a highly digestible, fully steam extruded balancer- http://keyflowfeeds.com/product/mark-todd-perfect-balance/- or Mark Todd Stay Cool, a non-heating cool mix- http://keyflowfeeds.com/product/mark-todd-stay-cool/- plus Key-3 Oil, an advanced Omega 3 Oil for horses and ponies- http://keyflowfeeds.com/product/key-3/- or Keyflow Key-Plus, a stabilised rice bran concentrate based top dress feed- http://keyflowfeeds.com/product/keyflow-key-plus/

For specific advice from Keyflow advice@keyflowfeeds.com

-CD


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## ktj1891 (31 October 2013)

Hey I would really appreciated independent advise. 

My horses details 16hh ex racer. Barefoot, poor doer and windsucks. Lost a lot of weight last winter and had bloods investigation etc done. Picked up in spring and looked fantastic through summer. Coming into winter again now and he is dropping weight. He goes our roughly 7 to 4.30 everyday on poor grazing has Haynet in evening and two feeds that consist of 2kg pure condition and micronised linseed x 2 a day. 

I am keen to keep his diet as low as possible in sugars and starch and high in DE and fibre. Please advise what you would recommend?


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## KeyflowUK (1 November 2013)

Nothing Original said:



			Hi. I would like to ask what impact feeding carrots (maybe 10 - 15 a day in feeds plus couple for stretches) and offering Himalayan salt licks ad lib can have, and in particular if either could be contributing to a stubborn thrush problem. Have read recently that carrots should not be fed in any quantity due to sugar content and that salt licks can interfere with mineral balance and should be counterbalanced with Zinc and Copper. Thank you
		
Click to expand...

Hi there  Salt licks are fine usually, but the difficulty is that intake can be abused if you have a horse that over consumes.  This is something that is easy to check by weighing the lick every day and checking intake over a period of a couple of weeks  it would be interesting but you will need a fairly accurate set of scales. 

As far as carrots are concerned you are absolutely correct in that they have a high sugar content on a dry matter basis 60% (i.e. if we sucked all of the water out).  However, on an as fed basis the sugar content is far lower.  Even if 17 carrots weighed a 1 kg, about 90% of that is water, so leaving 100g of carrot dry matter which could contain 60g of sugar mostly sucrose.  If your horse has any access to grass or indeed hay this extra sugar content would pale into insignificance in comparison  have a look on Feedipedia a great resource www.feedipedia.org 

I am not aware of a link between sugar intake and thrush in the feet in horses, but am aware of the discussion with other forms of thrush in humans.  My advice would be to feed a balanced ration, some grass but not excessive amounts, hay or haylage plus a balanced feed at an appropriate level to make sure you are providing a completely balanced diet and perhaps try a source of long chain omega 3 fatty acids (DHA and EPA).

From the Keyflow range try Mark Todd Perfect Balance- http://keyflowfeeds.com/product/mark-todd-perfect-balance/ which is a fully steam extruded balancer and Key-3 Oil which is blended specifically for horses- http://keyflowfeeds.com/product/key-3/ For specific advice from Keyflow advice@keyflowfeeds.com

-CD


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## Queenbee (1 November 2013)

I'm pretty much ok with my feed regime for my boy, I've changed it for this winter as he struggled a bit last winter when he was on alfalfa oil, speedie beet and linseed meal.  He looks much better going into winter and this year he is on speedie beet, ultra grass and I have a bag of linseed meal for later in the winter, hopefully this will be enough... The ultra grass seems to suit him far more.  

Anyway, this isn't a query, I just wanted to say how nice it is to read a response that isn't all about the company's product.  I see that you have recommended what you would feed from the key flow range, but first and foremost you have given a balance general dietary recommendation to the queries others have submitted which I believe, everyone on here will appreciate. I've found it an interesting read and certainly the best sponsored thread so far. Thank you


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## KeyflowUK (1 November 2013)

northstarboy said:



			my horse has had thrush on and off for the last 17 weeks
he has always suffered with thrush but
we can control the thrush
but we can't get his frogs to harden
i haven't been able to ride him because of the soft frogs
i have read in humans diet has a lot to do with thrush flare ups
sugar especially is a no no.
he has dried grass 200g, cubes 200g, lo cal balancer 200g and sugar beet shreds 500g
these amounts are split into 3 feeds/day.
he can lose weight but feeding this diet keeps him at his ideal weight
is there alternatives we can feed him to get rid of the sugar in his diet?
		
Click to expand...

Hi there

As I said on the previous question on thrush, I am aware of the discussion about the sugar content of the diet and thrush in humans.  But I am not aware of any proven link to thrush in the feet in horses.  Most of the sugar in your horses diet will come from the grass and or potentially hay depending on the type fed.  You are not feeding a lot of concentrate feed and the sugar content is likely to be negligible in comparison. 

A balanced diet is very important to support immune function which is crucial to fight any infection.  In addition, if we extrapolate from hoof horn structure and growth then the diet must provide sufficient quality protein, bioavailable calcium, adequate zinc and biotin.   Can I suggest that you feed alfalfa rather than grass given its bioavailable calcium content.

The quantity of balancer that you are feeding is quite low, if you have a horse and not a pony, so it would be better to not feed the cubes and to feed more balancer (up to the manufacturers recommended level).  I would also use a balancer with a higher soya content ensuring more quality protein.  The balancer should meet your horses zinc requirements but you may need to add some extra biotin to the diet. 

From the Keyflow range  - try Mark Todd Perfect Balance which is a balancer that contains high quality, equine specifically profiled protein- http://keyflowfeeds.com/product/mark-todd-perfect-balance/ For specific advice from Keyflow advice@keyflowfeeds.com

-CD


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## KeyflowUK (1 November 2013)

ktj1891 said:



			Hey I would really appreciated independent advise. 

My horses details 16hh ex racer. Barefoot, poor doer and windsucks. Lost a lot of weight last winter and had bloods investigation etc done. Picked up in spring and looked fantastic through summer. Coming into winter again now and he is dropping weight. He goes our roughly 7 to 4.30 everyday on poor grazing has Haynet in evening and two feeds that consist of 2kg pure condition and micronised linseed x 2 a day. 

I am keen to keep his diet as low as possible in sugars and starch and high in DE and fibre. Please advise what you would recommend?
		
Click to expand...

Hi there
Poor do-er ex racehorses my speciality as I have one myself!  The key I find is plenty of very good quality forage, I use haylage but hay is also good as long as it is an early cut with good feed value.  Its worth having it tested if you can buy a batch to keep you going through the winter. You obviously need to ensure that he is wormed well and his teeth have been looked at, and bloods are a good idea to make sure that there is no underlying health issue.  Also rugging up well is important as they feel the cold and will lose energy trying to keep warm.

I find the main factor with this type of horse is that people are often surprised how much feed it takes to keep a TB that is not doing much work in good condition over the winter when there is not much grass.  So I would start by giving him a big haynet morning and evening, put it out in the field with him in the morning if you can.  I agree with you that a concentrate feed that is low in starch and sugars but of moderate not low energy is needed, so it will consequently be higher in oil.  Your current feed would seem to fit the bill, but if he is not maintaining his condition you may need to increase the amount fed by introducing a third feed, or the steam extrusion used in the Keyflow feeds may be worth a try as digestibility is very good.  Keep the meal sizes small and regular to optimise digestion.  In terms of the linseed, yes this is a good option, high in oil and nice and low in starch.  I would expect you to be feeding 250-500g per day to help keep the condition on.  It may also be worth introducing a probiotic yeast supplement to try to boost his fibre fermentation. 

But the key really is in the quantity and the quality of your forage, which you must get right with this type of horse to keep the weight on and he should be consuming about 1.5-2% of his bodyweight as forage per day.  For a 500kg horse this is 8-10kg of hay or 10-12kg of haylage. I hope this helps. 

-CD

If you would like to try the Keyflow feeds, I would suggest using the Mark Todd Stay Cool- http://keyflowfeeds.com/product/mark-todd-stay-cool/, together with Key-Plus steam extruded stabilised rice bran as a top dress feed- http://keyflowfeeds.com/product/keyflow-key-plus/, Keyflow will be able to give you advice on quantities compared to your existing feed. For specific advice from Keyflow advice@keyflowfeeds.com


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## Lucinda (1 November 2013)

Quote Originally Posted by Lucinda View Post
I would like to ask Dr Dunnett if feeding anything can help mud fever? My horse has a small amount of mud fever on her right pastern and she is fed Baileys Performance Balancer and speedibeet daily, plus she is out 24/7 on a mixture of wetted hay and strip-grazed grass. Would you advise any extra supplements (eaten) to boost the immune system etc?
I am not aware of any feeds or supplements that can directly help mud fever, however, a robust immune system is likely to be important. Good gut health is important for immune function as is a sufficient amount of quality protein in the diet which provides certain amino acids like glutamine that are important for immune function. Your ration is already good from that perspective, with plenty of forage, a high fibre feed and a balancer providing quality protein and a concentrated source of vitamins and minerals. Perhaps the only extra that I might suggest is a source of long chain omega 3 fatty acids that can help to maintain coat and skin health in some instances &#8211; this would be worth a try (so you are looking for products with a content of DHA and EPA, which are usually fish oil based but can also be derived from algae.

From the Keyflow range - try Key-3 Oil - advanced Omega 3 oil with EPA and DHA- http://keyflowfeeds.com/product/key-3/

For specific advice from Keyflow advice@keyflowfeeds.com

-CD 

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR REPLY AND ADVICE - MUCH APPRECIATED. WILL LOOK AT WHAT YOU SUGGEST AND ACTION. THANK YOU AGAIN!


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## ajshaw (9 November 2013)

Hi I have a new horse he's a 17hh percheron x shire, 7 years old, he's over weight due to being out of work for about 9 months. He needs to be rebacked so isn't in any work other then me lungeing him at the min. He currently has only been on grass the last 2 months since I've had him but now the cold weather is coming in would anyone suggest me feeding anything else? Obviously he needs to loose weight through exercise and diet and as I'm doing lungeing would I be sensible keeping him off any feed and just giving him hay and see how he goes? His previous owner gave him dengi hi-hi original and pasture mix. Thanks for reading any help or opinions appreciated


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## KeyflowUK (12 November 2013)

ajshaw said:



			Hi I have a new horse he's a 17hh percheron x shire, 7 years old, he's over weight due to being out of work for about 9 months. He needs to be rebacked so isn't in any work other then me lungeing him at the min. He currently has only been on grass the last 2 months since I've had him but now the cold weather is coming in would anyone suggest me feeding anything else? Obviously he needs to loose weight through exercise and diet and as I'm doing lungeing would I be sensible keeping him off any feed and just giving him hay and see how he goes? His previous owner gave him dengi hi-hi original and pasture mix. Thanks for reading any help or opinions appreciated 

Click to expand...

Hi There

If there is a reasonable amount of grass to keep him occupied grazing then I would simply add either a vitamin and mineral supplement or a balancer product to a small amount of chaff, just really to provide the micronutrients needed.  He will lose weight gradually as you do more work with him.  When it gets much colder and there is not much grass at all, or if we get snow just start to offer him some hay.  The trouble with feeding a conventional mix such as a pasture mix is that for a horse of his size you would need to be feeding probably near to 5kg to meet his vitamin and mineral requirements.  A broad spectrum vitamin and mineral supplement or a balancer achieves this in a very small amount of feed which will allow him to lose some body fat.

Hope that this helps 

-CD

If you wanted to try the Keyflow Feeds then I suggest Mark Todd Perfect Balance which is a unique fully steam extruded feed balancer- http://keyflowfeeds.com/product/mark-todd-perfect-balance/ with a small amount of chaff. For specific advice from Keyflow advice@keyflowfeeds.com


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## khalswitz (12 November 2013)

I have one for you. My lad is a 17hh ex-racer, with EPSM, who can be on-off squitty, and is totally sharp to ride, plus he lives out year round. He has put on a lot of weight since we had the EPSM diagnosed, and now looks really great. However coming in to our first winter knowing about his EPSM it is always nice to hear suggestions for keeping him that way!

Over the summer, he was on minimal hard feed as I found him really sharp, just a handful of Alfa A Oil to take his vit and min supp in. Over the autumn we've slowly been building up, and I've changed to a balancer rather than a powder supp, and now he gets 1/2 scoop of Alfa-A Oil, 1 coffee mug of ERS pellets, 1 coffee mug of stud balancer, 1/2 mug Alfa-beet (before soaking) plus joint supp twice a day. 

I was recommended to increase his selenium intake for the EPSM, however we have ground and haylage that's tested well for selenium, and the ERS pellets have added selenium, so not sure whether to add extra to the detriment of his feet. Also was recommended a stud balancer rather than a lo cal one due to the muscular problems he has and the increased quality protein. I've also been recommended to try a prebiotic for his on-off tummy problems, but looking round at digestive sups it's really hard to tell what he actually needs!

Also, he's a super fussy eater. Have tried linseed and adding oil to his feed, but he won't touch it. He also won't eat a lot of feed - so I can't feed him recommended amounts of soaked feeds. He is also in moderate work - ridden 5-6 days a week, either 1.5-2 hours of fast hacking up and down hills (in NE Scotland so real hills!), or 1 hr of schooling (novice) or jumping (80-90cm), plus PC and RC training and comps, and the odd pleasure endurance ride.

Yeah, I know, he's a problem child.


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## KeyflowUK (14 November 2013)

khalswitz said:



			I have one for you. My lad is a 17hh ex-racer, with EPSM, who can be on-off squitty, and is totally sharp to ride, plus he lives out year round. He has put on a lot of weight since we had the EPSM diagnosed, and now looks really great. However coming in to our first winter knowing about his EPSM it is always nice to hear suggestions for keeping him that way!

Over the summer, he was on minimal hard feed as I found him really sharp, just a handful of Alfa A Oil to take his vit and min supp in. Over the autumn we've slowly been building up, and I've changed to a balancer rather than a powder supp, and now he gets 1/2 scoop of Alfa-A Oil, 1 coffee mug of ERS pellets, 1 coffee mug of stud balancer, 1/2 mug Alfa-beet (before soaking) plus joint supp twice a day. 

I was recommended to increase his selenium intake for the EPSM, however we have ground and haylage that's tested well for selenium, and the ERS pellets have added selenium, so not sure whether to add extra to the detriment of his feet. Also was recommended a stud balancer rather than a lo cal one due to the muscular problems he has and the increased quality protein. I've also been recommended to try a prebiotic for his on-off tummy problems, but looking round at digestive sups it's really hard to tell what he actually needs!

Also, he's a super fussy eater. Have tried linseed and adding oil to his feed, but he won't touch it. He also won't eat a lot of feed - so I can't feed him recommended amounts of soaked feeds. He is also in moderate work - ridden 5-6 days a week, either 1.5-2 hours of fast hacking up and down hills (in NE Scotland so real hills!), or 1 hr of schooling (novice) or jumping (80-90cm), plus PC and RC training and comps, and the odd pleasure endurance ride.

Yeah, I know, he's a problem child.
		
Click to expand...

As I am sure you will know the idea of a diet for EPSM is to provide sufficient calories (but not too many) and to ensure that the feeds fed are low in starch with oil being used as the supplementary energy source where required.  A balanced diet in terms of vitamins and minerals is essential and vitamin E and selenium are an important part of this due to their role in the bodies antioxidant defences .  So as it stands, your existing diet is good (one thing to check is whether ½ mug of balancer is the full recommended amount (also just check that your balancer is low in starch).  I agree that the stud balancer is likely to provide better quality protein as it will probably have a high soya content than LoCal and amino acids are needed to drive muscle protein synthesis. 

If your chap is in good condition now, you obviously have the quantity of feed right.  As you move into the winter, make sure you buy good quality forage and feed plenty of it.  You also have scope for increasing the ERS pellets whilst maintaining the level of the balancer. Keep the meal sizes small and frequent.  If you can sneak an amount of micronized linseed into the feed (little and often) this will also help.  For his digestion I suggest a live yeast plus prebiotic such as a FOS and or MOS and see if it makes a difference.  Also make sure you are also on top of his worming schedule.

In terms of the selenium, I suggest that you do a quick calculation of how much is being provided in his concentrate feed using each companies declaration and the weight of how much you are feeding and make a decision from there (come back and post again!).  On vitamin E you can do the same but aim for about 2500 IU per day.

So not much wrong with this keep going! 

-CD

If you would like to try the Keyflow feeds I would suggest Mark Todd Perfect Balance in combination with your other feeds- http://keyflowfeeds.com/product/mark-todd-perfect-balance/ Perfect Balance contains good levels high quality, multiple source protein (amino acids), as well as mos pre biotics presented in a highly digestible, wet steam extruded form. Assuming your boy is approx 600kgs, based on the feeding rate of 600g per day if feeding Perfect Balance he would be receiving 1.77 mg of selenium and 1152 iu of vitamin E through the balancer portion of the diet. For more information and advice email Keyflow at advice@keyflowfeeds.com


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## khalswitz (14 November 2013)

KeyflowUK said:



			As I am sure you will know the idea of a diet for EPSM is to provide sufficient calories (but not too many) and to ensure that the feeds fed are low in starch with oil being used as the supplementary energy source where required.  A balanced diet in terms of vitamins and minerals is essential and vitamin E and selenium are an important part of this due to their role in the bodies antioxidant defences .  So as it stands, your existing diet is good (one thing to check is whether ½ mug of balancer is the full recommended amount (also just check that your balancer is low in starch).  I agree that the stud balancer is likely to provide better quality protein as it will probably have a high soya content than LoCal and amino acids are needed to drive muscle protein synthesis. 

If your chap is in good condition now, you obviously have the quantity of feed right.  As you move into the winter, make sure you buy good quality forage and feed plenty of it.  You also have scope for increasing the ERS pellets whilst maintaining the level of the balancer. Keep the meal sizes small and frequent.  If you can sneak an amount of micronized linseed into the feed (little and often) this will also help.  For his digestion I suggest a live yeast plus prebiotic such as a FOS and or MOS and see if it makes a difference.  Also make sure you are also on top of his worming schedule.

In terms of the selenium, I suggest that you do a quick calculation of how much is being provided in his concentrate feed using each companies declaration and the weight of how much you are feeding and make a decision from there (come back and post again!).  On vitamin E you can do the same but aim for about 2500 IU per day.

So not much wrong with this keep going! 

-CD

If you would like to try the Keyflow feeds I would suggest Mark Todd Perfect Balance in combination with your other feeds- http://keyflowfeeds.com/product/mark-todd-perfect-balance/ Perfect Balance contains good levels high quality, multiple source protein (amino acids), as well as mos pre biotics presented in a highly digestible, wet steam extruded form. Assuming your boy is approx 600kgs, based on the feeding rate of 600g per day if feeding Perfect Balance he would be receiving 1.77 mg of selenium and 1152 iu of vitamin E through the balancer portion of the diet. For more information and advice email Keyflow at advice@keyflowfeeds.com

Click to expand...

Thank you very much!

Sorry I did say 1 mug of balancer twice daily - with the ERS as well I cut down from the full 3 cups required as single feed as I know the ERS will be giving him something as well. It is low starch, I double checked before putting him on it as that was why I'd had him on a powder supplement before!

Will try the yeast prebiotic, see if that settles his tum, and will try and find out how much selenium he is getting in his hard feed... I don't have the test results for the haylage and the soil test but will check with my YO the exact figures. Our hay and haylage is really nice (I get complements at shows on my lovely hay nets) and they get ad lib over the winter - have started putting hay out but at the moment they still aren't interested in it, so think there's still plenty grass just now.

Thank you very much, will go and work out and pop back


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## natmac84 (14 November 2013)

what would you suggest in feeding a 16yr pony that has EMS


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## MudMudGloriousMud (14 November 2013)

Sorry - double post!


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## MudMudGloriousMud (14 November 2013)

How interesting! I'm really enjoying reading all the different scenarios and advice!

My elderly mare (approx 20 - 25) has always been overweight and nigh on impossible to strip the weight off. 
She came to me at around 700kg (she is a vanner type, and 14.2hh) and is now taping at 530kg after a summer that has been too good to her! I have had her 7 years and she has been retired for 5 with bones spavin, SI problems and pain/fear related bolting.

She cannot be stabled (breaks out of everything in absolute terror) but when placed on a 1% diet by the vets (for concussion laminitis) she coliced badly, and has since coliced a couple of times when on a restricted diet.

I currently strip graze her, giving her about 10ft x 2ft each day of 'new' grass. She has a hand full of fast fibre, a hand full of alfalfa chaff, magnesium, vitex angus cactus and feedmark zero bute once a day. 

I clip her out as she needs to be rugged to keep her back/loins/muscles warm, but grows a hugely thick cushings coat (despite testing negative for cushings) so cannot be rugged without clipping. 

Any suggestions on feed/forage/balancer?

Thank you! x


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## KeyflowUK (18 November 2013)

natmac84 said:



			what would you suggest in feeding a 16yr pony that has EMS
		
Click to expand...

Hi there

Thats a very open ended question as it depends on many things: is the pony at a normal bodyweight, or is it overweight or difficult to keep weight on as ponies with EMS can be either.  You would certainly need to restrict access to grazing and if you need any supplementary feed then one that is low in starch and sugar fits the bill.  As the pony is a little older some good quality protein is a good idea to maintain muscle tone, especially as they can be less able to digest it well.  A balanced diet is also a must.  So for all 3 scenarios I would use a good quality balancer with a decent level of soya to provide quality protein.  This may be enough with restricted grazing or forage but if not supplement with a high oil feed such as linseed, rice bran or free oil.  As long as the pony is sound exercise is key to both maintaining it in trim condition but also stimulating metabolism and trying to improve insulin sensitivity.  I believe that some fast work is actually needed for this.  There are many supplements that claim to have an effect on EMS in terms of glucose management and insulin sensitivity but I am yet to see any data that is convincing, but thats not to say that it wont come!

Hope this helps but do come back if you can give me any more information 

 CD

If you would like to try the Keyflow feeds I suggest Mark Todd Perfect Balance which is low in both starch and sugar- http://keyflowfeeds.com/product/mark-todd-perfect-balance/ and perhaps either Key-3 Oil which is blended specifically for horses and ponies- http://keyflowfeeds.com/product/key-3/ or Key-Plus if weight gain is required- http://keyflowfeeds.com/product/keyflow-key-plus/

If you need any more advice please contact advice@keyflowfeeds.com


----------



## natmac84 (18 November 2013)

KeyflowUK said:



			Hi there

Thats a very open ended question as it depends on many things: is the pony at a normal bodyweight, or is it overweight or difficult to keep weight on as ponies with EMS can be either. You would certainly need to restrict access to grazing and if you need any supplementary feed then one that is low in starch and sugar fits the bill. As the pony is a little older some good quality protein is a good idea to maintain muscle tone, especially as they can be less able to digest it well. A balanced diet is also a must. So for all 3 scenarios I would use a good quality balancer with a decent level of soya to provide quality protein. This may be enough with restricted grazing or forage but if not supplement with a high oil feed such as linseed, rice bran or free oil. As long as the pony is sound exercise is key to both maintaining it in trim condition but also stimulating metabolism and trying to improve insulin sensitivity. I believe that some fast work is actually needed for this. There are many supplements that claim to have an effect on EMS in terms of glucose management and insulin sensitivity but I am yet to see any data that is convincing, but thats not to say that it wont come!

Hope this helps but do come back if you can give me any more information 

sorry should have given more details, 14.2 weights approx 450 now - had ems for 2 years - currently feed fast fider, and happy hoof to get her meds in and then a scoopy of high fibre nuts in a snack a ball at night - soaked hay - restricted grazing to 4-5 hrs a day in small paddock - supps currently given are immune plus and milkthistle

just had new blood results back last year 330 this year 120
		
Click to expand...


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## KeyflowUK (19 November 2013)

MudMudGloriousMud said:



			How interesting! I'm really enjoying reading all the different scenarios and advice!

My elderly mare (approx 20 - 25) has always been overweight and nigh on impossible to strip the weight off. 
She came to me at around 700kg (she is a vanner type, and 14.2hh) and is now taping at 530kg after a summer that has been too good to her! I have had her 7 years and she has been retired for 5 with bones spavin, SI problems and pain/fear related bolting.

She cannot be stabled (breaks out of everything in absolute terror) but when placed on a 1% diet by the vets (for concussion laminitis) she coliced badly, and has since coliced a couple of times when on a restricted diet.

I currently strip graze her, giving her about 10ft x 2ft each day of 'new' grass. She has a hand full of fast fibre, a hand full of alfalfa chaff, magnesium, vitex angus cactus and feedmark zero bute once a day. 

I clip her out as she needs to be rugged to keep her back/loins/muscles warm, but grows a hugely thick cushings coat (despite testing negative for cushings) so cannot be rugged without clipping. 

Any suggestions on feed/forage/balancer?

Thank you! x
		
Click to expand...

Hi there, this is a tricky one as your mare cant be exercised bless her. 

You are doing the right thing to strip graze her, as you are more in control of how much grass she has access to.  However, she is really on very little feed from what you have told me and so it must be the grass that is keeping the weight on.  A question for you to ask yourself  when she colicd on the restricted diet did you replace the grass for forage?  As this switch in diet may have been partially responsible.  Have you ever condition scored her?  This would be worth doing and you can find the Henke system herehttp://www.wikihow.com/Condition-Score-a-Horse

In terms of improving her ration, a balancer or a vitamin and mineral supplement would be beneficial in terms of ensuring all of the vitamin and mineral requirements are met and the latter would probably be better given her weight issues.  In terms of forage, I would go for hay over haylage on this occasion and perhaps soak it to leach out some of the sugars.  A later cut more mature hay will be less digestible and deliver fewer calories. 

To be honest being pragmatic about the situation, as your mare is 20-25 and is not ridden, if her health is stable and you dont allow her to put on any further weight then it may be better to accept that she is not going to be her ideal bodyweight without you having to severely restrict her intake, which may not be in her best interest.  Just be careful with the access to grass in the context of her possible Cushings re laminitis.

Hope this has helped a little  

- CD

If you would like to try the Keyflow feeds I would suggest Mark Todd Perfect Balance which is low in starch and sugar- http://keyflowfeeds.com/product/mark-todd-perfect-balance/ If you would like any more help or advice email advice@keyflowfeeds.com


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## MudMudGloriousMud (21 November 2013)

Thank you so much for taking the time to reply!

I have thought along the same lines as you, that if she is happy and healthy then why try to get her to and "ideal" weight. The vets disagree with me and are constantly telling me to diet her. My Farrier keeps a close eye on her feet and has nipped several footy issues in the bud, so I'm happy to go on the way we are, and so is she I think. 

We do go for "walkies" which she enjoys, so I really should put the effort in to taking her more often. 

Quote :- A question for you to ask yourself &#8211; when she colic&#8217;d on the restricted diet did you replace the grass for forage? As this switch in diet may have been partially responsible. Have you ever condition scored her? This would be worth doing and you can find the Henke system herehttp://www.wikihow.com/Condition-Score-a-Horse

I kept her on grass - restricted to a bare patch, and was soaking her hay when she colic'd, I think it was literally the lack of fibre/movement through her gut that made her ill 
I (and my vets) have condition scored her - she is a 6/5 as her neck, shoulders and tailhead are huge, with her barrel being very well covered, bless her cotton socks!

Thanks again for your time - I have added a vit&min supplement to her diet as you suggested.


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## KeyflowUK (29 November 2013)

natmac84 said:





KeyflowUK said:



			Hi there

Thats a very open ended question as it depends on many things: is the pony at a normal bodyweight, or is it overweight or difficult to keep weight on as ponies with EMS can be either. You would certainly need to restrict access to grazing and if you need any supplementary feed then one that is low in starch and sugar fits the bill. As the pony is a little older some good quality protein is a good idea to maintain muscle tone, especially as they can be less able to digest it well. A balanced diet is also a must. So for all 3 scenarios I would use a good quality balancer with a decent level of soya to provide quality protein. This may be enough with restricted grazing or forage but if not supplement with a high oil feed such as linseed, rice bran or free oil. As long as the pony is sound exercise is key to both maintaining it in trim condition but also stimulating metabolism and trying to improve insulin sensitivity. I believe that some fast work is actually needed for this. There are many supplements that claim to have an effect on EMS in terms of glucose management and insulin sensitivity but I am yet to see any data that is convincing, but thats not to say that it wont come!

Hope this helps but do come back if you can give me any more information 

sorry should have given more details, 14.2 weights approx 450 now - had ems for 2 years - currently feed fast fider, and happy hoof to get her meds in and then a scoopy of high fibre nuts in a snack a ball at night - soaked hay - restricted grazing to 4-5 hrs a day in small paddock - supps currently given are immune plus and milkthistle

just had new blood results back last year 330 this year 120
		
Click to expand...

Hi there


Thanks for the extra information.  I will assume that you pony is overweight at 450 although I dont know what breed or type he is?  The feeds that you are using are all suitable and it doesnt sound as if you are overfeeding in terms of quantity fed.  The overall ration may be unbalanced in terms of vitamins and minerals as it doesnt sound as if you are feeding very much so I would be inclined to feed a vitamin and mineral supplement or a balancer.  I presume the bloods are referring to insulin level and there would seem to be an improvement although they can jump around a bit if they were not fasting bloods and would be a good idea to talk to your vet about this. 

Hope the extra information helps. 

-CD

If you would like to try the Keyflow feeds, I would suggest Mark Todd Perfect Balance, a balancer containing essential vitamins and minerals http://keyflowfeeds.com/product/mark-todd-perfect-balance/ If you would like any more help or advice email advice@keyflowfeeds.com

Click to expand...


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## jojo5 (10 December 2013)

Hi, I would like some nutritional advice for my 24 year old cob.  He recently spent some time in horsepital - he had a colic  which was treated at our yard, he seemed fine for the next two days but then became very uncomfortable after his tea and ended up having a large amount of gastric fluid tubed from his stomach.  The vet who attended decided he should be admitted - it is a fairly long drive, and by the time we arrived he appeared to be fine though somewhat dehydrated (could not get him near the scanner, towed us round the yard!).  For the next few days he was re-hydrated, and bloods taken, scan, gastroscopy etc, all with nothing to see except for some ulcers which the vet thought may have been caused by the tubing.  Long story short, he is now back at home - I have cut his breakfast and tea down drastically so now only receiving a sprinkle of mix, half a scoop chaff, carrots/parsnip and lots of water.  He has around 10kg of haylage (dry) in two nets - one single with small holes, the other double netted to allow for all night grazing.  He is in at night and out on fairly sparse grass from 7 to 4.  My question is, if he is going to go down to almost all forage like this, which the vet has suggested, does he need a balancer/pre/pro biotic to support him at his age?  He is otherwise a good doer and a gannet, and, I am told, does not look his age!  So, more hay?  Extra supplements?  Readigrass?  Thanks very much


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## KeyflowUK (17 December 2013)

jojo5 said:



			Hi, I would like some nutritional advice for my 24 year old cob.  He recently spent some time in horsepital - he had a colic  which was treated at our yard, he seemed fine for the next two days but then became very uncomfortable after his tea and ended up having a large amount of gastric fluid tubed from his stomach.  The vet who attended decided he should be admitted - it is a fairly long drive, and by the time we arrived he appeared to be fine though somewhat dehydrated (could not get him near the scanner, towed us round the yard!).  For the next few days he was re-hydrated, and bloods taken, scan, gastroscopy etc, all with nothing to see except for some ulcers which the vet thought may have been caused by the tubing.  Long story short, he is now back at home - I have cut his breakfast and tea down drastically so now only receiving a sprinkle of mix, half a scoop chaff, carrots/parsnip and lots of water.  He has around 10kg of haylage (dry) in two nets - one single with small holes, the other double netted to allow for all night grazing.  He is in at night and out on fairly sparse grass from 7 to 4.  My question is, if he is going to go down to almost all forage like this, which the vet has suggested, does he need a balancer/pre/pro biotic to support him at his age?  He is otherwise a good doer and a gannet, and, I am told, does not look his age!  So, more hay?  Extra supplements?  Readigrass?  Thanks very much
		
Click to expand...

Hi There, 

Sorry to hear that you chap has had colic, but hopefully he is now on the mend.  A high forage diet is a good idea for any horse that is only doing a small amount of work especially if they keep the weight on well and have a healthy appetite.  Haylage is also a good choice as it tends to be cleaner than home grown hay, as the fermentation process inhibits mould growth. However, a diet of haylage and sparse grazing alone is unlikely to meet all of the requirements for vitamins and minerals and the protein quality may not be high enough to provide the optimum intake of key amino acids. 

I do suggest that you feed a good quality balancer in place of the current mix, alongside your haylage to ensure addition of some quality protein and a concentrated source of vitamins and minerals.  The balancer can be fed on its own, or together with a small amount of chaff (alfalfa or grass based).  My feeling is that a pre and or probiotic at this time would be helpful to manage the change in diet and to also ensure that the hindgut microbial population and environment is settled following the bout of colic.  Look out for ingredients such as live yeast Saccaromyces Cerevisiae or mannanoligosacharide in any product that you chose to use.

Hope this helps Dr D

If you want to try the Keyflow range I suggest Mark Todd Perfect Balance- http://keyflowfeeds.com/product/mark-todd-perfect-balance/ -as this provides steam extruded ingredients including full fat soya, full fat linseed and also contains mannanoligosacharide a prebiotic that supports a healthy balance of hindgut microflora


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## dianchi (17 December 2013)

Hi,

I am constantly battling with my horses weight, all medical reasoning has been eliminated, she is just not a horse that likes to eat up!

She has a tendancy to tie up, and is barefoot so low starch and low sugars are a must in her diet.

Currently she is fed 3.5kg Calm and Condition, 600gm of Micronised Linseed, 1kg of ERS pellets, Pro Balance feed supplement and MSM powder. (split over 3 feeds)

She is a fussy eater and does not like oil in her feed or Alfalfa.

She is worked 5 days a week, is 19yo TB 15.3 mare and currently is weighing 489kg on a weight tape. Competes at SJ and Elem Dressage through the winter. Plays Horseball all of the summer.

Are there any additions that you would suggest for additional calories in her feed?


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## Maz55 (17 December 2013)

I would like to know what your thoughts are on feeding pre/probiotics? Are they really necessary? I feed my horse:

Topspec topchop lite
global herbs globalvite vitamin supplement
chlorella
milk thistle 
MSM

Is it necessary to add a pro/prebiotic? If so, is there a vitamin supplement that you could recommend that has it in it/can you recommend a pre/probiotic?

Thank you.


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## jojo5 (17 December 2013)

Hi Dr D, thanks very much for your reply.  Does the Keyflow product you mention contain the concentrated vita and mins you suggest?  I forgot to mention his vital stats (14.3, now measuring 503 kg on the weigh tape which is about 25-30 kg less than he would normally be at this time of year.  He does already have soya oil in his tea, and glucosamine. I have just bought a new grass based chaff. Thanks again.


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## KeyflowUK (18 December 2013)

jojo5 said:



			Hi Dr D, thanks very much for your reply.  Does the Keyflow product you mention contain the concentrated vita and mins you suggest?  I forgot to mention his vital stats (14.3, now measuring 503 kg on the weigh tape which is about 25-30 kg less than he would normally be at this time of year.  He does already have soya oil in his tea, and glucosamine. I have just bought a new grass based chaff. Thanks again.
		
Click to expand...

Hi There
Yes the Mark Todd Perfect Balance contains a full range of vitamins and minerals at a concentrated level that allows it to be fed at the low level recommended rate of 100g per 100kg of bodyweight - so 500g per day for your chap. Perfect Balance is also wet steam extruded which significantly increases digestibility and nutrient availability in the small intestine.  

Hope that helps Dr D


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## KeyflowUK (18 December 2013)

Maz55 said:



			I would like to know what your thoughts are on feeding pre/probiotics? Are they really necessary? I feed my horse:

Topspec topchop lite
global herbs globalvite vitamin supplement
chlorella
milk thistle 
MSM

Is it necessary to add a pro/prebiotic? If so, is there a vitamin supplement that you could recommend that has it in it/can you recommend a pre/probiotic?

Thank you.
		
Click to expand...

Hi There,
Pre and probiotics are beneficial in certain circumstances and for me these would be horses that have a history of digestive disturbance including colic or  loose droppings, horses that are under considerable dietary stress such as race or competition horses fed high cereal containing diets, horses that have a failure to thrive where no other health issue has been identified.

In terms of what to look for my probiotic of choice would be a live yeast Saccharomyces cerevisiae and prebiotics to look out for are FOS fructooligosaccharides or MOS mannanoligosaccharides.  A key question to ask any manufacturer would be what their level of inclusion is.

Hope this helps Dr D

For your information Keyflows Mark Todd Perfect Balance contains MOS and Mark Todd Stay Cool, Mark Todd Maestro, Whitaker Bros Jumpmix and Jumpmix Jnr all contain both a MOS and Protexin live yeast (Saccharomyces cerevisiae) at high inclusion rates. For further advice please contact advice@keyflowfeeds.com


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## Maz55 (19 December 2013)

thank you Dr D


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## Neo_kat26 (19 December 2013)

Hi Catherine, my 18 year old TB recently came in from the field with a really bad cut in his leg that went to the joint. He was rushed to an equine hospital,hadthe wound flushed under anaesthetic and has spent two weeks there. He came home on Tuesday and is on box rest. I have noticed that during all this he has lost weight and his ribs are now visible even through his winter coat. I have been told that its probably did to the stress. I've now got to balance his food so that he is putting on weight but hasn't got too much energy. I have started him on Dodson and horrells alfalfa high oil and his usual leisure mix. He has access to hay throughout the day. Does this sound like the right thing to do? Your advice would be greatly appreciated


----------



## KeyflowUK (21 December 2013)

dianchi said:



			Hi,

I am constantly battling with my horses weight, all medical reasoning has been eliminated, she is just not a horse that likes to eat up!

She has a tendancy to tie up, and is barefoot so low starch and low sugars are a must in her diet.

Currently she is fed 3.5kg Calm and Condition, 600gm of Micronised Linseed, 1kg of ERS pellets, Pro Balance feed supplement and MSM powder. (split over 3 feeds)

She is a fussy eater and does not like oil in her feed or Alfalfa.

She is worked 5 days a week, is 19yo TB 15.3 mare and currently is weighing 489kg on a weight tape. Competes at SJ and Elem Dressage through the winter. Plays Horseball all of the summer.

Are there any additions that you would suggest for additional calories in her feed?
		
Click to expand...

Hi There
You dont say whether your horse is stabled or at grass or a combination.  The area that I would focus on to begin with is the quality and digestibility of your forage, as this can have a big impact on maintaining weight.  You really need to try and find a hay or haylage that is better than average, an early cut that is not too fibrous and if you are able to perhaps acquire an analysis of the hay or haylage from the merchant this is a good start.  In this scenario, good forage really does need to be fed _ad libitum_, to the extent that a little bit is being left at each sitting.  You dont mention how much forage you are feeding so this could be an issue?  Even if your horse is at grass 24/7 then I would still be inclined to offer forage twice a day.  The feeds you have chosen are suitable and I presume that you are mixing two brands for palatability reasons. This ok as both are relatively low in starch but you may want to consider some additional vitamin E supplementation from the tying up perspective. 

I am assuming that you have eliminated all other veterinary contributors to your mares failure to thrive including: parasites, poor dentition, gastric ulcers, malabsorption, or any underlying inflammation within the gut.  If any of these are present then they would need to be treated by your vet first and would have impacted on your mares ability to maintain condition.  Otherwise, once you have got the forage intake optimised you could introduce a small 4th feed and see if this improves the situation.

Hope this helps Dr D

There arent any feeds within the Keyflow range that would be more suitable than those you are currently using, although some Key 3 Omega Oil would be a worthwhile addition but as you say your mare does not like added oil, I would be reluctant to add it as it may reduce the overall intake of the diet which could be counterproductive. Have a look here http://keyflowfeeds.com/product/key-3/


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## KeyflowUK (21 December 2013)

Neo_kat26 said:



			Hi Catherine, my 18 year old TB recently came in from the field with a really bad cut in his leg that went to the joint. He was rushed to an equine hospital,hadthe wound flushed under anaesthetic and has spent two weeks there. He came home on Tuesday and is on box rest. I have noticed that during all this he has lost weight and his ribs are now visible even through his winter coat. I have been told that its probably did to the stress. I've now got to balance his food so that he is putting on weight but hasn't got too much energy. I have started him on Dodson and horrells alfalfa high oil and his usual leisure mix. He has access to hay throughout the day. Does this sound like the right thing to do? Your advice would be greatly appreciated 

Click to expand...

Hi There

Always a challenge weight gain without excitability!  Good forage is again the key and plenty of it through the day.  An alfalfa chaff of some kind as you mention is a good addition and it extends the forage  you can feed about 1kg of this per day.  The next addition I suggest needs to be a balancer as this will provide a concentrated and very digestible source of nutrients, vitamins and minerals and amino acids, which is important when you seek to keep concentrate levels low.  I would then use a high oil top dress feed like micronized linseed (500g per day) or rice bran (upto 1kg per day)  to provide extra calories but without the high levels of starch that traditional mixes can bring.

Hope this helps  Dr D

If you want to try the Keyflow range then I suggest Mark Todd Perfect balance  a fully steam extruded balancer providing concentrated vitamins and minerals, quality protein and other highly digestible ingredients.  Steam extruded Key Plus (rice bran) would also be an alternative option to micronized linseed. Have a look here: http://keyflowfeeds.com/product/mark-todd-perfect-balance/ and here http://keyflowfeeds.com/product/keyflow-key-plus/


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## dianchi (23 December 2013)

KeyflowUK said:



			Hi There
You don&#8217;t say whether your horse is stabled or at grass or a combination.  The area that I would focus on to begin with is the quality and digestibility of your forage, as this can have a big impact on maintaining weight.  You really need to try and find a hay or haylage that is better than average, an early cut that is not too fibrous and if you are able to perhaps acquire an analysis of the hay or haylage from the merchant this is a good start.  In this scenario, good forage really does need to be fed _ad libitum_, to the extent that a little bit is being left at each sitting.  You don&#8217;t mention how much forage you are feeding so this could be an issue?  Even if your horse is at grass 24/7 then I would still be inclined to offer forage twice a day.  The feeds you have chosen are suitable and I presume that you are mixing two brands for palatability reasons. This ok as both are relatively low in starch but you may want to consider some additional vitamin E supplementation from the tying up perspective. 

I am assuming that you have eliminated all other veterinary contributors to your mare&#8217;s failure to thrive including: parasites, poor dentition, gastric ulcers, malabsorption, or any underlying inflammation within the gut.  If any of these are present then they would need to be treated by your vet first and would have impacted on your mares ability to maintain condition.  Otherwise, once you have got the forage intake optimised you could introduce a small 4th feed and see if this improves the situation.

Hope this helps Dr D

There aren&#8217;t any feeds within the Keyflow range that would be more suitable than those you are currently using, although some Key 3 Omega Oil would be a worthwhile addition but as you say your mare does not like added oil, I would be reluctant to add it as it may reduce the overall intake of the diet which could be counterproductive. Have a look here http://keyflowfeeds.com/product/key-3/

Click to expand...

She is out during the day and in at night, she is fed good quality adlib hay and there is always some in the stable.

She has no vet issues- extensively checked.

She is barely eating the three feeds she is currently on so  4th is really not an option.

I am feeding the ERS as w are at the toplimit of calm and condition and this was an extra calorie feed recommended to me.

So you don't have any other suggestions? Its very frustrating as an owner so any professional input would be appreciated.


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## KeyflowUK (23 December 2013)

dianchi said:



			She is out during the day and in at night, she is fed good quality adlib hay and there is always some in the stable.

She has no vet issues- extensively checked.

She is barely eating the three feeds she is currently on so  4th is really not an option.

I am feeding the ERS as w are at the toplimit of calm and condition and this was an extra calorie feed recommended to me.

So you don't have any other suggestions? Its very frustrating as an owner so any professional input would be appreciated.
		
Click to expand...

Well, I would certainly have your hay analysed to ensure it has a good feed value, as just because it looks nice and smells nice it doesnt always follow.  This would be my number one piece of advice as if it has a % protein of less than 7.5% you probably need to look for a different batch. You can make a huge difference to condition by feeding better forage  perhaps consider a good quality haylage with a high feed value?  You could send your hay to a laboratory called Eurofins for a basic nutritional profile, or if you PM Keyflow, I can point you in the right direction. 

The other element that may be an issue is that your low starch feed, may actually be causing the appetite issue, as this does happen, especially if the horse in question is doing a reasonable amount of work.  The trouble is to achieve a very low starch content you sometimes have to use bi product ingredients and even straw based ingredients in combination with oil, which some horses just dont fancy.   It may be worth introducing a slightly higher starch feed to try and achieve better palatability (perhaps around 18-20%), which should be ok as long as your meal sizes are small and frequent. 

I hope this helps a bit, but suggest that if you need more info you give Keyflow a call on 01672 519000 and leave your number and Ill call you back.

Dr D


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## TwyfordM (24 December 2013)

Hi, i have a welsh sec a who struggles to maintain her weight year round. She's currently on fastfibre with milk thistle due to liver enzymes being found to be too high in blood tests although no investigations were carried out as she's fine in herself. She has suffered from both impaction and spasmodic colics in the past, cant have too much sugar as is laminitis prone and it blows her brain .. Nightmare basically! 
The fastfibre worked quite well over the summer and she stayed a good weight but she's started to drop weight now despite being on double the summer amount of feed and adlib good quality hay.
She's rugged up and stabled overnight and only in very light work (worked everyday in summer)  
Any ideas on what i could feed that will maintain her weight but wont tip the balance of her various health issues? 
Thankyou


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## KeyflowUK (29 December 2013)

TwyfordM said:



			Hi, i have a welsh sec a who struggles to maintain her weight year round. She's currently on fastfibre with milk thistle due to liver enzymes being found to be too high in blood tests although no investigations were carried out as she's fine in herself. She has suffered from both impaction and spasmodic colics in the past, cant have too much sugar as is laminitis prone and it blows her brain .. Nightmare basically! 
The fastfibre worked quite well over the summer and she stayed a good weight but she's started to drop weight now despite being on double the summer amount of feed and adlib good quality hay.
She's rugged up and stabled overnight and only in very light work (worked everyday in summer)  
Any ideas on what i could feed that will maintain her weight but wont tip the balance of her various health issues? 
Thankyou 

Click to expand...

Hi there,
I think that you need to rule out all possible health issues first, as you say that you are feeding twice the amount that you fed in the summer to limited effect (although you dont say how much you are feeding).  Ensure that there is not an ongoing parasite issue, especially tapeworm as these can have a profound effect on ability to maintain condition.  I would liaise with your vet and perhaps having teeth checked and a blood test to screen for any underlying health problems. 

It could be that the feed value of your hay is not as good as you think it is, unless you have had this confirmed through analysis.  If I assume that all is well health wise, an alternative ration for your pony that should help with condition keeping the low starch and sugar low follows:  Alfalfa chaff (0.5kg), a good quality balancer to provide a concentrated source of quality protein and vitamins and minerals.  You could also add some unmolassed sugar beet to this and or micronized linseed to add some extra calories.  I would be more able to give you an idea on quantities if I knew how much you were feeding currently.

Hope this helps Dr D

Within the Keyflow range, we suggest Mark Todd Perfect Balance fed at a level of 100g per 100kgs of bodyweight per day.  This offers fully steam extruded ingredients for improved digestibility and a full range of vitamins and minerals. Have a look here: http://keyflowfeeds.com/product/mark-todd-perfect-balance/


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