# Spaying bitch before 1st season.



## TelH (10 September 2010)

Good? Bad? I have heard so many mixed opinions on it.

Alice Springer is 8 months old and not had her first season yet but I am getting her spayed on Monday. Vet originally was dead set against doing it but he has now relented (I think partially due to OH's refusal to get her Springer castrated )

My JRT is now 11, she was spayed before her first season, she has incredibly small girl bits  but apart from that has never had any health problems as a result of it.

Is it really as risky as some people seem to think?


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## blackcob (10 September 2010)

I had mine done at six and a half months, long before her first season. I was keen to get it done early because there are two entire males on the farm where I keep the horse, where she has to come with me every day, and they roam where they please. 

My vet was entirely happy to do it at that age and only warned me that the earlier you do it, the higher the risk of urinary incontinence in later life - though letting them have even one season increases the risk of mammary tumours by the same degree, so it's a bit tit-for-tat really.


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## farriersmum (10 September 2010)

I wouldn't like to do it at that age, imo until they've had their first season they're not mature enough (supposing they didn't get it all out?)


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## TelH (10 September 2010)

Originally Alice was going to have to wait til after her 1st season. I have been on and on at OH to get her Springer castrated (he is nowhere near good enough to be a breeding dog so why keep what he doesn't need...) but she is adamant he will not get done  Alice has been caught doing inappropriate things with a pillow a couple of times   so I guess she is maturing and I absolutely do not want any puppies. I have never heard of a spaying not being done properly, like them not getting it all out, I think I am prepared to take that risk


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## blackcob (10 September 2010)

TelH said:



			I have been on and on at OH to get her Springer castrated (he is nowhere near good enough to be a breeding dog so why keep what he doesn't need...) but she is adamant he will not get done 

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Tell her that I had to watch my cherished childhood dog, my grandparent's JRT, die a slow, painful and wholly unnecessary death from testicular cancer which spread to his anal glands, rectum and lower bowel. My grandfather wouldn't have him castrated because he wouldn't be 'a real male'. Total, total waste of a corking little dog. 

Sorry, I'll get off my soapbox now.


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## CAYLA (10 September 2010)

I would have no issues spaying a springer before a first season, I only wait till after a first for large breeds as they still have a good bit of growth before a first season where as a breed her size wont have a great amount to go, obs I have had hundreds of dogs neutered in my care plus all my own 5 million (and the untrapment in puppy limbo) is IMO rubbish, if a dog is puppy like its puppy like, nothing to with the age its done.
How old is she now?


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## soloabe (10 September 2010)

A dogs risk of pyo goes up 25% after every season.
I would always get a smaller dog like yours done before her first season.


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## TelH (10 September 2010)

Alice is 8 months old now, she is quite big but still got that puppy look about her.

I don't know my OH's issues with castration but there obviously are some!! We have got a little rescue terrier as well, he was entire when we got him and there was serious falling out about him (I won, he is minus his boy bits now  ) And the other week I was   because she started on about why do we have to get Harold the foal gelded   He is only 5 1/2 weeks old but as soon as he is old enough they will be gone!


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## CAYLA (10 September 2010)

Yep, she acts like a pup and being a springer will make no difference to that, she will act like a pup for along time to come.

I mention her age as the only reason I recommend leaving large breeds as the growth plates have a little more time to close, however with your girl, her growth is about done and at 8 months IMO I would def go ahead and have her done now.


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## reindeerlover (10 September 2010)

Get it done soon as IMO, they will not leave bits in unless they are operating with the lights off and with one hand. Also, I'm not sure what growth plates have to do with spaying?


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## MyBoyChe (11 September 2010)

I,ve just had Chloe done, ESS, 7months old.  She had entropia so vet was doing an eye tuck and we agreed that speying her at the same time was sensible.  Only one GA and one episode with the dreaded Buster collar to endure.  He had no problem with doing the spey at this age.  The only issue I had was that at her age, keeping her still was practically impossible, I gave up trying to do lead exercise only and just let her play in the garden, under supervision and without the other 2 spangles until her stitches were out, Im sure the amount of pulling and bouncing about on the lead was more detrimental than helpful.


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## CAYLA (11 September 2010)

Farrierlover said:



			Get it done soon as IMO, they will not leave bits in unless they are operating with the lights off and with one hand. Also, I'm not sure what growth plates have to do with spaying?
		
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I mention growth plates and neutering as IMO there is a factor, not that anyone else has to agree I have done a good it of reading and more interesting see the results for myself in siblings.

Neutering early delays the closing of the growth plates, this in turn will make the dog a good few inches taller more so in larger breeds where they still have a good bit of growing as they have a slower growth period so still have a good way to go (before a first season) 
The OP neutering at the age her dog is, means she is almost fully skelatally developed so would make little to no difference in altering her growth, so for example IMO a breed such as an akita I would give till at least overthe year mark.

Some people believe neutering young leaves a dog in puppy limbo and they never mature, IMO that is not true/possible with the growth plates however I do think there is a deffinate correlation, I am however lucky enough (because of the sheer volume of dogs I deal with) to see these results first hand, so maybe that will also help me form my opinions, but as I mention this will not be th same opinion of everybody


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## CAYLA (11 September 2010)

Just to add (incase of confusion) in this case I am agreeing and would personally spay this breed of dog at this age


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## springer1021 (11 September 2010)

My ESS was spayed after her first season.  I asked my vet about it when she was only a few months old and he said all vets have their own opinion, he preferred them done after their first season, yet the other vet in the practice liked do do them before their first season.


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## SKY (11 September 2010)

i was toald spay 5 -6 mths


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## Cedars (11 September 2010)

There are many opinions - some people may remember my upset post on here when I was lambasted by the local know-it-all for having Chloe done at bang on 6 months!!

I did ALOT of research into it. From what I found, after the first season, the risk of problems increase by 25%. There is alot of PROOF that the longer you leave it, the more likely they are to get real problems. 

There are OPINIONS about spaying earlier, but there is absolutely NO proof that it is in any way dangerous. In my opinion, I didn't want the risk of a pregnant 7 month old.

I would definitely get it done now. xxx


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## reindeerlover (12 September 2010)

CAYLA said:



			I mention growth plates and neutering as IMO there is a factor, not that anyone else has to agree I have done a good it of reading and more interesting see the results for myself in siblings.

Neutering early delays the closing of the growth plates, this in turn will make the dog a good few inches taller more so in larger breeds where they still have a good bit of growing as they have a slower growth period so still have a good way to go (before a first season) 
The OP neutering at the age her dog is, means she is almost fully skelatally developed so would make little to no difference in altering her growth, so for example IMO a breed such as an akita I would give till at least overthe year mark.

Some people believe neutering young leaves a dog in puppy limbo and they never mature, IMO that is not true/possible with the growth plates however I do think there is a deffinate correlation, I am however lucky enough (because of the sheer volume of dogs I deal with) to see these results first hand, so maybe that will also help me form my opinions, but as I mention this will not be th same opinion of everybody

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That's really interesting, I wasn't questioning you in a sarky way, just curious. So you find that the reduced production of female hormone has a correlation with the completion of growth plates? Do you find this in males too? Interested as to if it is the male/female hormones which is affecting. It would be interesting to see a study done on this with xrays too, I wonder if anyone has attempted this.


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## soloabe (12 September 2010)

There are a number of studies that suggest that those of us with canine athletes should be carefully considering our current recommendations to spay or neuter all dogs at 6 months of age or earlier. A study by Salmeri et al in 1991 (Salmeri et al JAVMA 1991;198:1193-1203) found that bitches spayed at 7 weeks were significantly taller than those spayed at 7 months, and that those spayed at at 7 months had significantly delayed closure of the growth plates than those not spayed (or presumably spayed after the growth plates had closed). The sex hormones close the growth plates, so the bones of dogs or bitches neutered or spayed before puberty continue to grow. This growth frequently results in a dog that does not have the same body proportions as he/she was genetically meant to. For example, if the femur is normal length at 8 months when a dog gets spayed or neutered, but the tibia, which normally stops growing at 12 to 14 months of age continues to grow, then an abnormal angle may develop at the stifle. In addition, with the extra growth, the lower leg below the stifle becomes heavier (because it is longer), causing increased stresses on the cranial cruciate ligament. This is confirmed by a recent study showing that spayed and neutered dogs have a higher incidence of CCL rupture (Slauterbeck JR, Pankratz K, Xu KT, Bozeman SC, Hardy DM. Canine ovariohysterectomy and orchiectomy increases the prevalence of ACL injury. Clin Orthop Relat Res. 2004 Dec;(429):301-5).
		
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Just do a google search and you will find many a study.


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## echodomino (12 September 2010)

I wouldn't do it until they're at least a year and had a season and I wouldn't have a dog castrated before 12months. After a year most dogs are fully matured and developed and if a bitch has had a season then you know she pretty much so. Besides that I don't agree with it before they're "adult" so to speak, you wouldn't castrate or spay a baby so why a puppy? But that's just my opinion!

ETA - I know there is always going to be an exception so to speak but if you're responsible there's no reason why you should end up with puppies from a young bitch or any bitch. We've always had dogs and bitches live together, some entire some not, and haven't had problems


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## CAYLA (12 September 2010)

What Katey posted is pretty much what I go by, I would still however neuter a small to medium breed before a first season where I could around the 7 month mark, because there is a risk of the more seasons and even jsut a first cycle massivley increases the risk of mammary cancer so I would definately want to avoid mammary cancers (huge/common) killer in older and seen in younger female dogs, its literally only the large breeds I would leave till a year or just over but definately would not allow a second season.
We all have our different opinions though.


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## echodomino (12 September 2010)

CAYLA said:



			We all have our different opinions though.

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Ooo I know, I didn't mean for my post to come across like I was being funny!


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## TelH (12 September 2010)

I know if you're responsible you can manage and not end up with puppies but it worries me greatly that that my OH is not  Me and OH are just of entirely different schools of thought on that score, I have never had a dog/bitch and not had it neutered, she seems to think it's an unnecessary expense. I can't make her have the Springer dog castrated (much as I have tried!) because he is hers from before we got together but Alice is ours. We have fallen out muchly over to spay or not to spay but Alice gets done tomorrow


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## CAYLA (12 September 2010)

echodomino said:



			Ooo I know, I didn't mean for my post to come across like I was being funny! 

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Never thought for 1 minute, u did me dears


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## echodomino (13 September 2010)

Phew! lol


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