# The Dangers of Hunting



## Judgemental (18 October 2010)

The thread concerning Hunting Fiction put me in mind of a useful book called Sporting Stories - all fact by Thormanby published in about 1900 by Mills and Boon.

It also put me in mind of a remark once made to me by a contemporary hunting gentleman, "always have a good hunting breakfast it might be your last".

Although one does have to consider that with scepticism when reading extracts from Sporting Stories; 

"Every season the hunting-field claims it's victims. A fall is not necessarily serious. Assheton Smith had falls without end, yet never broke a bone. Another famous foxhunter Captain John White was less fortunate and broke every bone is his body, yet hunted until he was 77. Although interestingly fatal accidents seldom occur during fast runs. Whyte-Melville met his death when quietly trotting from one covert to another. General James Thomas Brundreull 7th Earl of Cardigan 1797-1868 (he of the Charge of the Light Brigade at Balaclava) was thrown from a colt in a country lane when hounds were nowhere near and broke his neck".

The point is that there is perceived danger hunting. It is not the hunt it is the 'side shows' where the really serious accidents occur.

Indeed I will go further and say that when it comes to horses, there are more good horses 'broken down' by galloping them about at home, than a really good run out hunting. Coupled to concussion on their legs by constantly hammering them on hard roads.


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## pastie2 (20 October 2010)

I remember a day with the Old Surrey and Burstow, the late Jimmy Edwards was field master, so it must have been a non jumping day on the Ashdown Forest. He had a dreadful tumble, quite a few of us little light weights looked down at this huge mass of a man on the ground asking for help. If I remember he swore and shouted at all of us before getting to his feet. Sadly it was not hunting that killed Jimmy Edwards. I bet he wished it was. RIP Jim.


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## applecart14 (22 October 2010)

Judgemental said:



			The thread concerning Hunting Fiction put me in mind of a useful book called Sporting Stories - all fact by Thormanby published in about 1900 by Mills and Boon.

It also put me in mind of a remark once made to me by a contemporary hunting gentleman, "always have a good hunting breakfast it might be your last".

Although one does have to consider that with scepticism when reading extracts from Sporting Stories; 

"Every season the hunting-field claims it's victims. A fall is not necessarily serious. Assheton Smith had falls without end, yet never broke a bone. Another famous foxhunter Captain John White was less fortunate and broke every bone is his body, yet hunted until he was 77. Although interestingly fatal accidents seldom occur during fast runs. Whyte-Melville met his death when quietly trotting from one covert to another. General James Thomas Brundreull 7th Earl of Cardigan 1797-1868 (he of the Charge of the Light Brigade at Balaclava) was thrown from a colt in a country lane when hounds were nowhere near and broke his neck".

The point is that there is perceived danger hunting. It is not the hunt it is the 'side shows' where the really serious accidents occur.

Indeed I will go further and say that when it comes to horses, there are more good horses 'broken down' by galloping them about at home, than a really good run out hunting. Coupled to concussion on their legs by constantly hammering them on hard roads.
		
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I've never been hunting but thought about doing the huntsmans ride exercising the hounds type of thing earlier in the year, but never got round to it as the weather was appalling at the time.  My perception of hunting is probably most incorrect but I always think of a mass of uncontrollable horses galloping across a field and jumping massive jumps with hounds baying in the background.  The reason why I've been put off hunting is from losing a horse as a result of an accident where he fell down a ditch on a fun ride, albeit three weeks later in hospital when the tree root/brick that sliced through his fetlock joint, severed two tendons and eventually rendered him incapable of being saved and he was PTS.  Knowing how easily and quickly the injury happened and not really even perceiving any danger at the time the thought of a similar injury occurring on the hunting field has put me off.  As I say it is amazing how you can go from perfectly safe to a very dangerous situation in a matter of seconds.  Also the thought of my horse suddenly thinking it was capable of jumping 'advanced BE' type fences and galloping wildly and uncontrollably towards a fence with the rest of the melee and the adrenalin no doubt pumping through him, with me tugging frantically on the reins and screaming dementedly in terror also put me off!! LOL  I'm sure that's not what it's like in reality, but getting me onto the hunting field would be the equivalent of getting me on the Pepsi Max roller coaster, i.e. pretty darn impossible!


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## Judgemental (22 October 2010)

applecart14 said:



			I've never been hunting but thought about doing the huntsmans ride exercising the hounds type of thing earlier in the year, but never got round to it as the weather was appalling at the time.  My perception of hunting is probably most incorrect but I always think of a mass of uncontrollable horses galloping across a field and jumping massive jumps with hounds baying in the background.  The reason why I've been put off hunting is from losing a horse as a result of an accident where he fell down a ditch on a fun ride, albeit three weeks later in hospital when the tree root/brick that sliced through his fetlock joint, severed two tendons and eventually rendered him incapable of being saved and he was PTS.  Knowing how easily and quickly the injury happened and not really even perceiving any danger at the time the thought of a similar injury occurring on the hunting field has put me off.  As I say it is amazing how you can go from perfectly safe to a very dangerous situation in a matter of seconds.  Also the thought of my horse suddenly thinking it was capable of jumping 'advanced BE' type fences and galloping wildly and uncontrollably towards a fence with the rest of the melee and the adrenalin no doubt pumping through him, with me tugging frantically on the reins and screaming dementedly in terror also put me off!! LOL  I'm sure that's not what it's like in reality, but getting me onto the hunting field would be the equivalent of getting me on the Pepsi Max roller coaster, i.e. pretty darn impossible!

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Applecart, I like that handle.

I have hunted in many places, and assuming the horse is fit - the more work horses get and I like mine to be run up fit and very hard, the better they are in the hunting field. Assuming the rider is 'riding fit' - they too should be run up and fairly hard. Then it's all safe.

It's rare you hear of professional hunt staff having a problem because they and their horses are super fit.

Most hunting activities in the field are controlled - of course if you are likely to get carted by your horse, then that little problem has to be sorted out with  bitting and work - work. Too many horses are under worked and over fed.


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## cptrayes (22 October 2010)

"Then it's all safe."  

Never  !  

You are jumping alongside someone else a safe ten feet to your left, and about to take off and suddenly their horse dives right into your path.

You have taken off for the hedge and the horse 10 feet out to your right comes down sideways and throws his rider right across where you are about to land.

You are committed to a fence and the person in front of you cracks it one and breaks it, leaving you no option but to jump unprotected barbed wire.

You jump a hedge and realise that the farmer has left a chain harrow right where you thought you were going to land. 

You cross a wooden bridge and the fifth horse over puts its foot through the rotten plank that no-one realised was there. 

Some idiot who doesn't want their horse labelled as a kicker won't wear a red ribbon and his horse breaks your leg.

Some idiot who does have a red ribbon in his horse's tail thinks all it means is that you must avoid him and allows his horse to back into yours, where it kicks you and breaks your leg.

Some idiot who is first time out says "he never behaves like this at home!" while completely out of control of his rearing plunging horse in a narrow gateway, crushing several other riders knees against the post and into the barbed wire fence.

You need to negotiate a hunt gate only one horse wide and you misjudge it by inches in the excitement of following the field, and take off your own kneecap on the post.

You are galloping along a lovely open field and your horse sticks his leg down a hidden rabbit or badger hole and breaks it.

You are fording a river and your horse falls into a pit no one realised was there in the bed of the stream and you get a soaking if not worse.


Anyone who hunts surely knows that these are things that happen all the time and that riders like Applecart are right to want to protect themselves and their horses unless they are risk takers like people like us who hunt? Many riders would blanch at the idea of riding up and down the steep slippery muddy banks on either side of a river or deep ditch, even if nothing else went wrong.  You have the risks judged about right from your fun ride experience Applecart, though if you ever do get your gumption up enough it really is about the most fun you can have!!


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## JenHunt (22 October 2010)

A chap who was field master for the Bilsdale years ago (when my parents hunted) had gone to the hospital for xrays prior to an operation on his back, he was somewhat suprised when the nurse asked him when he'd broken his neck! The only thing he could think was that a few years previous he'd been cantering down an old railway line and hit his head as he'd gone under a tunnel. He didn't remember it being sore! The same chap, recovered from back operation and told never to ride again, was back on board the following season, just in time to see the hunting ban passed. I always remember him saying he'd never see the day the ban came into force. Sure enough he died the week before.  RIP Hugh Miles.

Also - 
Two seasons ago (I think) two horses and riders tackled the same fence in close succession, the first horse slipped on landing, decanting rider into the path of the second horse, who took evasive action and (to quote Eddie Izzard) "twanged him [the rider] into a tree" - his knee was forced upwards, forcing his hip into the socket... The first rider was ok, just bruised. The second rider had a suspected broken his pelvis. An Ambulance was called, and he was walked (still mounted) back to the road by four others. The abulance crew told him he'd have to dimount before they'd do anything. He couldn't move sufficiently to get off his Point to Point horse (who was a saint). After an hour the ambulance crew eventually decided they should help him, and with a mountain of gas and morphine managed to get him down and into the ambulance. He spent 3 days in hospital with a fractured pelvis before being sent home to recover. 

Also - 

Our master's wife was trying out a pony for her daughter, prior to buying him, and was kicked by another horse, smashing her femur. Air ambulance, road ambulance, lady in agony, and it took 3 hours to get her off the pony. Despite the chaos, and her screams the pony stood like a rock. Not suprisingly he was bought! and the she made a full recovery, albeit a long one.

and finally...

A few years ago I didn't have a horse of my own (I was at uni) and was asked to hunt a young horse for someone over the Christmas holidays. A very sweet little horse and very willing, and perhaps over keen. Jumping out over hunt rails onto a wide roadside verge the little mare misjudged the question, and leapt the verge as well. Landed on black ice, hit the deck and stood on me as she got up, breaking 3 ribs! Full recovery made (in fact, I think I hunted the rest of the day!)


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## cptrayes (22 October 2010)

One of our masters broke his pelvis without leaving the saddle, just landing perfectly well over a fence last year! I gather this is not particularly unusual, someone from the nearby fox hunt having done the same the season before. Both men though, I wonder if that makes  a difference?

Great stories Jenhunt! True hunting spirit - why let three broken ribs stop you having fun  ??


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## skewby (23 October 2010)

Interesting post!  I used to do loads of fun rides, couldn't be bothered this year, and when I thought about it I did think, I feel safer hunting.  Yes out hunting you need to keep your wits about you, I am still very new to it and I always look for people who clearly know what they are doing and tuck in behind them right from the meet, and do what they do and go where they go.  I also clock people who (for whatever reason) look like they could be dangerous (there are always some!) and stay well away.

I now consider fun rides more dangerous.  For lots of reasons - horses are spread out so you get problems where they can see each other in the distance, but are not allowed to go charging up to each other so get wound up.  Also there can be a lack of manners and a lack of ability on the part of the riders.  There are always loads of terrified riders on them - recipe for disaster in many cases.  They'd be better off at the back of the hunting field, being nannied one to one, in my opinion.

The thing that really put me off them, was I did one once and horse fell after a fence (bad shoeing, long story) and came up slightly off.  I hacked him back the way I had come, passing several people.  Only ONE lady asked, were we ok.  Very, very different from the camaraderie, siupport and kindness I've found on the hunting field in abundance.


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## sonjafoers (23 October 2010)

skewby said:



_The thing that really put me off them, was I did one once and horse fell after a fence (bad shoeing, long story) and came up slightly off.  I hacked him back the way I had come, passing several people.  Only ONE lady asked, were we ok.  Very, very different from the camaraderie, siupport and kindness I've found on the hunting field in abundance_.
		
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Well said Skewby, really well said!

I once came off my TB in flat out gallop when galloping up a hill and a very scary dartmoor pony appeared over the brow. I came flying off, landed on a rock, horse finally stopped & just stood & looked at me. I couldn't get up for ages as I was quite winded & when I did get up I couldn't get back on easily as I was still very shaky.

Throughout all this a group of ramblers had been walking up the hill and seen it all happen & NOT ONE of them asked if I was ok. In fact they probably didn't even stop talking whilst it all went on & certainly didn't stop walking.

Give me the hunting field any day where everyone looks out for each other, and the majority wait if you have a problem - despite perceived perceptions.


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## JenHunt (23 October 2010)

sonjafoers said:



			Well said Skewby, really well said!
....
Give me the hunting field any day where everyone looks out for each other, and the majority wait if you have a problem - despite perceived perceptions.
		
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ditto this!! and isn't that what it's about - the hunting community and spirit, the camaraderie and the friends we make?

kick on folks! it's nearly here! 

*tootles off to make the donkey trot up some hills*


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## KatB (23 October 2010)

This post has remonded me why I'm precious over my horse, and am nsure about hunting her!!!

I used to hunt weekly, and very rarely saw any serious accidents... however, the one serious accident I did see still haunts me! 
We had jumped a decent hedge, had a couple of hundred yards to a lane, which we had to turn onto and go through a gateway. The guy infront of me's horse was a bit hot, and had seen horses turn and wait, so thought they were queuing for a fence. He screeched past the waiting horses (rider had lost all control), and slid straight into a cattle grid next to the gateway   He eventually broke both front legs after struggling for some time. 

That has always been at the back of my mind, which has what has held me back from taking my mare now hunting, and actually preferring the bloodhounds, as least there is a more "set" trail which lessens risk (in my mind!) However, I have seen a few more seriously injured just being out in the field, so I guess it's swings and roundabouts


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## skewby (23 October 2010)

jenhunt said:



			ditto this!! and isn't that what it's about - the hunting community and spirit, the camaraderie and the friends we make?
		
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Thanks sonjafoers, it's just so true though!  And yes definitely Jen, it's a huge part of what got me hooked.  I was spectacularly out of control when I first started going, but the help I got was tremendous.  Huntsmen offered me their horses' backsides to crash into when I couldn't stop, the Master told me not to worry (and made it clear to the rest of the field that noone should tell me off) when I passed her 4 times in one morning, a lovely gentleman pinned me in a gateway with his 18 hander when I couldn't keep horse still to let cars past, and countless people kindly offered me leads when I wibbled about jumping.  Oh and caught my excited horse for me when he broke away from the wagon bridleless, and surrounded him so I could get on!!!  And most of all, they let me keep coming back, and keep trying.  And congratulated me hugely when horse calmed down, I improved, and we could begin to really enjoy it, under control.

And all done with tremendous good humour!  A far, far cry from the perceived snobbishness I was expecting to find.  Super people.

Even if they do still take the p out of me for our early misdemeanours, they have long bloody memories lol!!  

And now we are more adept, I have done the same for others, and thoroughly enjoyed helping people have a nice day.

Yes it has its risks, but with this spirit of everyone helping each other, and looking out for each other, I do still consider it safer than many other things we do or have done.


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## silverbullet (23 October 2010)

Everything has its risks. I hunted and evented my pony for years without an incident. So how did I come to have my worst fall - breaking several bones in the process. 

Over a 2ft showjump - i missed and pony got the pole stuck between his forelegs. I still feel much safer jumping solid fences to showjumps now!!


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## steadyeddy (23 October 2010)

Totally agree with Skewby, feel safer hunting than doing a fun ride!


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