# laying hardcore/road planings -HELP !



## NeverSayNever (5 November 2012)

I am currently having 20 tonnes of road planings laid in front of my stables, on an area that was a good few inches deep with mud...  the idea (or so I thought) was that the guy doing it was going to scrape back/clear the mud, lay a membrane, dig in and edge with boards and fill with the planings. Ive just been out to check on progress and it looks like they have laid the membrane straight on top of the mud without digging any out, the planings are going on at a depth of about 6 inches but a heap of moisture is seeping up through the surface and the whole thing is squelchy rather than hard packed... so far. They assure me once its rolled down and compacted it will be ok, that the moisture will come to the surface and drain off (its on a slight slope). Does this sound right


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## katymay (5 November 2012)

hmm, doesnt sound right to me, they should have really dug out all the wet loose mud, laid a layer of plainings, compacted it, built a frame then laid the membrane (is it a weed proof one or water proof one?) if its just a weedproof one then the excess moisture should seep back down through it its a waterproof one then you are going to continue to have puddle problems,  then put down the rest of the plainings and compacted several times, please tell me they have boarded the edges too to stop it moving otherwise it wont stay very compacted and its likely to dissapear into the mud,


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## wench (5 November 2012)

Did you get a written quotation for the works?


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## carthorse (5 November 2012)

Did you want it 6" higher will the doors open. I would have tought they would take 6" of mud away first. Trouble is none of us get these things in writing first


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## NeverSayNever (5 November 2012)

yeah they have dug boards in to edge it all thankfully!.. there is already a small concrete area directly in front  of the stables so it is butting up to that so no worries about doors opening or anything. It was a waterproof polythene membrane they put down, they say they are going to compact it with a vibrating plate. Jeez I hope it works out


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## FairyLights (5 November 2012)

Please let us know how you get on.


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## wench (5 November 2012)

Thats how stone is compacted - with a vibrating whacker plate or roller...

Would have been better to dig all the mud out, but then if they did this more planings would have been required.

Always a good idea to have an exact written description of what works will take place and quotation


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## NeverSayNever (5 November 2012)

wench i do have a price, i didnt get a written breakdown of works as it was discussed prior and its someone we know well. .lesson learned.. i definitely said i wanted it all scraped back. What worries me is that when they compact it, the mud is just going to squeeze to the top like toothpaste and not go anwhere


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## FfionWinnie (5 November 2012)

You would have been better with a geotextile membrane not a plastic one in my opinion. Have they just laid the membrane?  There is time to make them sort this, don't settle for second best, I'm sure they are charging plenty for the work!


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## indie999 (5 November 2012)

Usually I would say dig out and membrane etc

I am on the clayiest wet field ever.The farmer laid me a track and drove over it a few times and it has never shifted. It has become completely hard and one piece.There are no edges or boarads and I do weedkiller it about every other year. But it has gone flat and is brilliant stuff. The farmer did offer to top it up but I never have.. I drive over it. It was only about 6 inches deep.


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## MiJodsR2BlinkinTite (5 November 2012)

Um, sorry to ask a numpty question; but who did you engage to do the work???? 

I've got a very similar problem here: the field gate is literally a swamp, and my poor horses are struggling to get in and out of their field at the moment.

I consulted a local farmer, who's got a lot of experience on this awful pesky clay soil we've got here, and he said that the only way to deal with poached muddy gateways like this is to firstly get a JCB/digger thing to scrape/push all the gunky mud out the way, THEN put down whatever surface you're going to use.

Anyway, hope yours works out OK OP.


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## lachlanandmarcus (5 November 2012)

also bear in mind that in theory laying any of this type of stuff requires planning permission (I know, dont shoot the messenger ) as its considered to be groundworks/engineering rather than temporary like mats etc would be.


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## Honey08 (5 November 2012)

I would have said it needed scraping off too.  We put rough hardcore down on clay mud (about 1'deep) then added 6" of planings on top, which worked great.  

Our neighbours dug out a drive and put planings straight onto soil/mud, without membranes, and it has been fine.

The issue with your job sounds like the mud was saturated and wet.  We have a muddy area of hardstanding that we want to cover with planings, and hubby says it must be scraped of mud first for it to work properly.

If the worst came to the worst, could you just add another lorry load on top?  I would get your local farmer to do it next time - sounds like he has more idea and ours laid it out and flattened it with his tractor (didn't need whacking)..


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## indie999 (5 November 2012)

Honey08 said:



			I would have said it needed scraping off too.  We put rough hardcore down on clay mud (about 1'deep) then added 6" of planings on top, which worked great.  

Our neighbours dug out a drive and put planings straight onto soil/mud, without membranes, and it has been fine.

The issue with your job sounds like the mud was saturated and wet.  We have a muddy area of hardstanding that we want to cover with planings, and hubby says it must be scraped of mud first for it to work properly.

If the worst came to the worst, could you just add another lorry load on top?  I would get your local farmer to do it next time - sounds like he has more idea and ours laid it out and flattened it with his tractor (didn't need whacking)..
		
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Yep mine is fine too. The farmer drove over it, tractor and its lovely stuff. Sort of locked together. My field is clay, floods, even ducks come to swim.But the planings are fine. I hope its a worry about nothing. I was sceptical when mine was done but the farmer knew what would work etc.


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## NeverSayNever (6 November 2012)

thanks indie999 , it looks a lot better this morning and they are whacking it down,its till soft and mushy in places, the mud is coming up and being cleared off then they have more planings to put on top. Fingers xd it works out. They seem dubious the road planings surface is right for my horses, asking will they not stick in their fetlocks  and were vey keen to go and get gravel to lay over the top but I declined.  Lesson learned in future I thin, its not been done as it should be but hopefully its not going to be an expensive waste of time .


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## NeverSayNever (9 November 2012)

well just to update - it appears about 1/3 of the job was scraped back, after I went out and went ...  strangely enough, that 1/3 is perfect. The rest has 10 (i counted) unstable wobbly patches and having given up on the guys coming back to sort this I have spent most of my day today digging these sections up myself, piercing the polythene and removing the mud that was bulging under it, carting it away by the barrow load and re-filling with new planings. A heavy pain-in-the-ar*e job but no one else to help me so a case of roll up my sleeves and get it sorted


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## Clava (9 November 2012)

You would normally dig down the required depth, lay 150 to 200mm hardcore as a sub base and then put chippings on top (I wouldn't bother with a membrane then, geotextile membranes are needed on fine top surfaces such as sand to prevent it blocking the larger gaps for drainage in an arena)


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## scarymare (9 November 2012)

I've done this in my field entrances and have always dug out mud first.  Can't imagine why you would use a membrane though.  

I think it will be fine, eventually with mine it all kinds of merges in and tries to regrass and suspect yours will do the same.


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## NeverSayNever (15 November 2012)

update -finally after me digging lots of it out, scooping out mud and backfilling with planings it is in use and WORKS!


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## Mainland (16 November 2012)

This is a problem we hear about on a daily basis. Nothing should be laid on soft mud or topsoil. All building projects will start by removing the topsoil from the site to reveal firm subsoil. The Planings should then be laid in layers at a depth according to the weight of the tool used to compact them. For instance, if you are looking to install a finished 6 inch layer of Road Planings compacted by whacker plate you would need to lay the planings in 2 inch layers and fully compact. Then add another 2 inches, compact, and so on until full depth is achieved. If the contractor puts the full 6 inch depth down in one go and then compacts you are going to get problems as only the top 2 inches will be compact. 

Any job involving wet gateways and tracks etc should be done during the summer months. It is too easy to look at a field in the summer and forget what it gets like in the winter. You will generally find that a job takes half as long and is twice as effective if undertaken during the drier months. Forward planning is key. I know its difficult when there are so many other summer activities to do but trust me you will be glad you did in the winter.


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## Magicmillbrook (16 November 2012)

Good advice, we did this in one of our gateways this year, wish we had done them all!  Good job this is a virtual forum as those floundering around in mud might be inclined to give you a dunking for being so sensible!


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## NeverSayNever (16 November 2012)

lol well i had no choice but to do this now - summer and foreplanning would have been a fab luxury. i had to take swift action for the  welfare of my horses as my field flooded about a month ago, and I mean flooded! The river burst and flowed right through, over the height of the fences and wrecked the lot. I got another field next to my house but I had to get some hardstanding down, fast.


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## Adopter (16 November 2012)

Glad things are getting sorted, we have used planeings for years, in gateways and round barn etc, I do find sometimes ponies pick up stones, so do pick out feet daily as part of routine.

On my stable yard used graded limestone, with layer of 'dust' on top this has also been really great, some of the areas have grassed over, but it is not a problem and although some areas of the field do get very wet when we have continuous rain, the areas with the planeings are fine.


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## lachlanandmarcus (16 November 2012)

Adopter said:



			Glad things are getting sorted, we have used planeings for years, in gateways and round barn etc, I do find sometimes ponies pick up stones, so do pick out feet daily as part of routine.

On my stable yard used graded limestone, with layer of 'dust' on top this has also been really great, some of the areas have grassed over, but it is not a problem and although some areas of the field do get very wet when we have continuous rain, the areas with the planeings are fine.
		
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We have the same on our farm tracks using hardcore and then 'chukies' - about 3-4cm small pieces of granite with a layer of granite dust mixed in - the rain and driving on it sets it almost like cement.Shame we can afford to do our main track in yet - pothole city! Still it keeps out the riffraff....


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