# Dangerous mare



## Baileybones (23 October 2010)

I really need some advice.

I have a a tb mare who I got 18 months ago. She is stroppy at best and dangerous at worst but I honestly think she doesn't mean any harm.

She came from racing and had a very hard time - broken pelvis, broken jaw etc so is is very distrusting. She has got much better and is really talented and trys so hard.

Every now and then though something will set her off and she will flip! Today I was tacking her up and something set her off and she reared up and the proceeded to smash up the yard, the school fence, herself and her bridle. 

My instructor watched her today and has said that she honestly thinks this mare will end up hurting or killing either me or herself.

I can't pass her on and wouldn't dream of breeding from a horse with a temperment like this but I don't want to make a final decision that I will live to regret.

Do you think its possible that this unpredictable dangerous behaviour will stop in time or am I just kidding myself??

Within minutes of exploding she is back for cuddles. She has seen dentists, vets, farriers, physios and chiros.

Any ideas welcomed.


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## Roasted Chestnuts (23 October 2010)

If it is as dangerous as you say I would PTS raterh than sell.

Nikki


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## missyme10 (23 October 2010)

Wow thats really not a good position to be in.

If you have exhaused all the options, ie physical problems, then you're really down to a mental issue that may or may not be resolved with training.
But I suspect you have already tried most routes, and if she's only doing this at odd times and you still dont know the trigger, then she's likely to always be this way.
Personally if it was me and if your instructor is right, and she really is capable of seriously injuring you or worse killing you, I would pts.
Sorry it may not be what you want to hear, but as a mother I could never have a horse that is capable of being so dangerous, nor would my consicience ever allow me to pass them on.
Horses are meant to be enjoyable, there is no enjoyment in your horse behaving that way.
Its very sad when its not the horses fault, that some human in their past has made them that way, but even so I still wouldn't take my life in my hands and would still go the pts route.

I really hope someone can offer you possible solutions x


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## Ilovefoals (23 October 2010)

Could she just be a field companion for someone?


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## TicTac (23 October 2010)

Get her checked out by a vet as there may be some underlying problem that is causing her pain. Pelvis injury's can cause all sorts of problems.

ps, just noticed that you have had a vet look at her!


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## DuckToller (23 October 2010)

How old is she?  Is she always unpredictable, or is it worse when she is in season?  Is the frequency of her outbursts getting less?

Its difficult to really offer much advice or give an opinion without seeing her, as what one person thinks is dangerous could be someone else's idea of just being a tb mare, but you mustn't put yourself in danger.  If you are frightened by her behaviour, then you must think long and hard as to whether she is worth it.  But if you find her behaviour tricky but something you can deal with, that's quite different.


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## pastie2 (23 October 2010)

I really dont think that you have any choice if she is as bad as you say. I feel sorry for you and the mare, but in this situation I would not want to put myself in danger or anyone else. It seems that she has had a hard time in her life and it is not just pain that sends them like this, her mind might be messed up aswell. Good luck, but be very careful with this mare.


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## JessandCharlie (23 October 2010)

There are a lot of people on here who will tell you otherwise, but an animal communicator may help? Make sure you find a good one, who comes recommended as, due to the nature of it there are always going to be dodgy ones. 

If not, I would say field companion or if that isn't possible, there are much worse things that can happen to a horse than PTS.

Very sorry for your situation, it must be very hard. If you need an AC recommendation, I know of a couple. PM me


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## thatsmygirl (23 October 2010)

It's a hard one, def not sell on, if you couldn't keep her anymore I would say pts. 
Is there any pattern to her behaviour? When you tack up? Any pattern at all could give you a starting point. 
You say fractured pelvis and jaw? Do you know the history as to why this happens? I'm wondering if the jaw has anything to do with the rearing and remembering pain.
If I'm honest if she was one I had in to work with I would sersiouly get " thermal imageing" carried out which is cheap and please consider it.


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## missyme10 (23 October 2010)

Also wanted to add, from the behaviour you have described, it sounds very much that she could be putting others in danger if she's flipping out like that.
I've no idea what kind of yard you are at, it may be private and your own in which case its not so much of an issue, but if like mine which is a busy livery yard with about 50 horses and kids with ponies, that would be a big concern x


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## amage (23 October 2010)

How old is she and what is she by? Was she turned away before you got her? Are the incidents completely random or is it always when she is tacked up or always when she is tied up?


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## Kao (23 October 2010)

Unfortunately, some horses are a lost cause. Both mentally and physically.
My honest opinion, after trying all options, would be euthanasia. Sometimes no amount of NH or behavioral help can help these horses.
You need to think if she's really worth it, and if it's humane to keep her going if she's that distrusting and dangerous towards humans.


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## Letslip (23 October 2010)

Sorry to hear you are having these problems.  I had a gelding like this ex eventer who was perfect on the ground however when ridden all could be going well and suddenly he would flip out, in his time he threw me into the side of  indoor school, put me over 3 cars,tried to run through a barbed wire fence and much more, you get the idea. 

He was 17 and I got him as a bit of a 'rescue' as he had fallen into the hands of dealers.  It became clear that soon he would either end up killing either me or himself. I went through all the options but he wouldn't of made a companion horse as he hated being out (from minute he went out he stood by gate trashing the area until brought in) but couldn't keep him in 24/7 for rest of life, and couldn't sell him as couldn't bare the thought of him possibly killing someone else or ending up god knows where being beaten due to his behaviour.  

In the end I made the sad decision to have him PTS as believed that would be the best outcome for him.  It was speculated that he may have been suffering from either a brain or spinal tumour hence the sudden blind panic behaviour and complete disregard for his own safety.  I didn't go through all the rigmoral or exploring this further as he was an older horse it was uncertain what could have been done if it had been discovered to be this and didn't get an autopsy done as at the time too much of a wreck to think of any such thing plus didn't have the money.

Sorry it's not a happy tale to tell but do think sometimes with such issues very hard decisions do have to be made sometimes.  But I hope you have better luck and good fortune than I did


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## charmeroo (23 October 2010)

I knew someone who had a similar experience to you.  All the usual checks were done time and again.  The vet saw him regularly as he frequently injured himself - often in one of his outbursts.  There was nothing obviously wrong with him just that his behaviour was so unpredictable. He ended up hurting his owner.

Having come out of racing with all these issues you really need to think hard as to whether you will make any difference to her.  I'm sorry - but I'm doubtful.


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## Pearlsasinger (23 October 2010)

I had a TBxWelshD who gradually became more and more unpredictable and dangerous to handle, particularly when bringing her in in the dark.  She was within days of being pts - we were really only waiting for Christmas to be over- when we changed her diet.  We didn't know we were going to change her behaviour (we were trying to cure a cough) but we stopped giving her sugar and cereals and her behaviour changed in 3 days.  If you haven't considered this it might be worth a try, otherwise I'm afraid I think you should pts before someone, including possibly the mare, gets seriously hurt.

ETA, it wasn't actually anything to do with the dark, she was just like a drug-addict, ready for her next 'fix'.  It's not always easy to work out what the trigger for weird behaviour is.


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## Spot_the_Risk (23 October 2010)

A customer of ours has just had her ex racer mare PTS - similar reasons, fine often, but would sometimes flip, in her case that meant bucking until the rider was off.  Her owner had explored some routes, and took the decision not to pass the problem on - her concern was understandably how could she live with herself if the mare injured someone else?


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## better half (23 October 2010)

If she is under 8 years old I think with the right approach she will come round but it  sound like you need some help.  If she is older it will just take longer.


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## thatsmygirl (23 October 2010)

Pearlsasinger said:



			I had a TBxWelshD who gradually became more and more unpredictable and dangerous to handle, particularly when bringing her in in the dark.  She was within days of being pts - we were really only waiting for Christmas to be over- when we changed her diet.  We didn't know we were going to change her behaviour (we were trying to cure a cough) but we stopped giving her sugar and cereals and her behaviour changed in 3 days.  If you haven't considered this it might be worth a try, otherwise I'm afraid I think you should pts before someone, including possibly the mare, gets seriously hurt.

ETA, it wasn't actually anything to do with the dark, she was just like a drug-addict, ready for her next 'fix'.  It's not always easy to work out what the trigger for weird behaviour is.
		
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This is a very good point which I forgot to mention, diet can be a big part off behaviour ESP cereals and high sugar feeds. I won't feed any mixes or sugar beet to any horse and stick with low sugar,starch feed. It's made a huge difference to horses iv worked with


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## Echo Bravo (23 October 2010)

I think you have to go by your gut feeling. I had the same problem several years ago and I still have her, she still has issues and we work round them, she's now 14. If you mare is young give her a chance, if handled right things do come right.


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## farriersmum (23 October 2010)

Could you turn her away(and I mean not bring her in just leave her out with some other horses) for a year?


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## Pally (23 October 2010)

I would say try an animal communicator, I'll PM you some details, but if this fails then I guess if you have exhausted all other animals PTS.


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## Dot1 (23 October 2010)

I have been in this position twice, once I had the horse pts because he was obviously in pain due to kissing spines and he was very dangerous to handle/ride. The vet had advised that there was not much they could do for the kissing spines and his behaviour was disproportionate to the pain he was in.  It was heart breaking, but I did make the right decision.

I have a BW mare, who I have had for 5 years, she is very grumpy and opinionated.  However 5 years ago I was advised to have her pts as she was very difficult, exactly as your mare.  She has a sacriliac joint injury and in winter is worse as she is stiff and uncomfortable.  So I can sympathise with your mare.  After several yard moves, she is a different horse and probably one of the safest I know.  Although you wouldn't stand behind her!

She would rear and bolt when being turned out, kick out at you, you couldn't catch her without risk of being kicked and she broke numerous bridles.  Getting on in the school was a no no, usually end in rearing and biting.  I don't think she bitten for a couple of years now!  She was so bad the vet was worried for my safety and my friends, YM etc wouldn't go near her and weren't very supportive at all.

She can still be difficult and strong but I wouldn't change her for the world and all the perserverance has paid off.  It has also ultimately made me a better person with horses, as the experience has given me a wealth of knowledge!

Good luck with your mare whatever decision you make.  Make sure it is your decision and no one elses!!


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## horseandshoes77 (23 October 2010)

Can i ask how old this mare is ? i had a horse from 6 months old, nothing bad had happened to him etc, sent him away to be schooled at 4 because he was such a handful anyways he was a nitemare, those schooling him sent him back and said pts bolted at anything, ran into barbed wire and traffic and anything remotely dangerous! however due to circumstances he ended up being left turned away for 3 years and brought back into work slowly aged 8 everything from scratch and now, well my daughter rides him he can be ridden anywhere, started jumping and now is nearly a novice ride, he was also very dangerous on the ground aswell as in saddle but now is a gentleman for my 12 year old to lead around !!

maybe turn away for a while and start over again with her building trust


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## hannahmurphy (23 October 2010)

Given her past it sounds as though she needs some rehabilitation training. Some real natural horsemanship, rework her trust issues.
I certainly wouldn't be thinking about putting her to sleep without seriously trying to get to the route of it.


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## tangoharvey (23 October 2010)

Agree with farriers mum, turn her away for 12 months, on good grass, and bring her back in and rebreak her from scratch, really slowly, spending as much time on groundwork as you do riding.........good luck!


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## dozzie (23 October 2010)

It sounds as if she frightens herself tbh. My old chap was similar and i was told to PTS at 6 by a BHSII because he was "Mad". He wasnt mad he was just terribly insecure and needed lots of reassurance. He used to panic under pressure.  I found dropping contact and using a really calm voice worked wonders. I had him pts this year aged 32. Had years of fun with him too once i gained his trust but he was only ever a one persons horse...mine. In his later years other people could ride him but only if they told him constantly he was a good boy and put him under no pressure. 

By persisting i ended up with the most loyal horse I could ever have dreamt of owning. He was never easy per se but he would have jumped the moon for me had I asked him.  

I had him pts in July and I dont think I will ever have the same bond again.


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## spotty_pony (23 October 2010)

I can't even begin to imagine how difficult it must be to be in your position. As others have said, definitely don't sell her on. What is it that causes her to act like this? How often does it happen? Does she do it when you are riding her as well? If you can find the cause of the problem, then you can work on solving it. If this fails, and she is still dangerous I would consider having her PTS for yours and her own safety.


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## Cuppatea (23 October 2010)

how did she get her broken pelvis and jaw? What is her breeding? Where did she come from? How long has she been out of training?


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## amanda1788 (23 October 2010)

Could she be used as a field companion or turned away for a while as she has obviously been through a lot in her life and deserves some tlc


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## thinlizzy (24 October 2010)

Sorry about your mare, its a shame my friend had a mare xracehorse on loan  but never raced broke her pelvis or hip this was years ago cant remember pelvis or hip , she was grumpy being handled, ie mounting all the time wouldve always just been a light hack i think if i can remember she jumped on a bit of a bend maybe she had arthiritis lovely looking mare the owner sold her and never disclosed the broken hip/pelvis she was alright as a light hack though , happy to plod along with a novice all day .Good luck cant really suggest anything as you are having lessons anyway .


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## Elsbells (24 October 2010)

dozzie said:



			It sounds as if she frightens herself tbh. My old chap was similar and i was told to PTS at 6 by a BHSII because he was "Mad". He wasnt mad he was just terribly insecure and needed lots of reassurance. He used to panic under pressure.  I found dropping contact and using a really calm voice worked wonders. I had him pts this year aged 32. Had years of fun with him too once i gained his trust but he was only ever a one persons horse...mine. In his later years other people could ride him but only if they told him constantly he was a good boy and put him under no pressure. 

By persisting i ended up with the most loyal horse I could ever have dreamt of owning. He was never easy per se but he would have jumped the moon for me had I asked him.  

I had him pts in July and I dont think I will ever have the same bond again.

Click to expand...

That is so lovely and such a wonderful story, it's brought tears to my eyes.


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## Tinseltoes (24 October 2010)

If  shes dangerous to ride,then dont ride her.Put her out as a field companion,change her diet. Do you put messed up people to sleep NO .Give her a chance,afterall it isnt her fault.


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## Maesfen (24 October 2010)

TBH, I wonder where your sense is if she is as dangerous as she sounds.  Put her down and be thankful she hasn't hurt anyone yet or worse, she doesn't deserve second or tenth chances if she flips like that.  Plenty more horses around that can give you pleasure not pain.


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## MrsMozart (24 October 2010)

Sorry, not read all the replies, so apologies if I'm repeating anyone:

Has she been checked for a brain tumour? I ask because I used to ride a mare that had had a tough time of it. If she saw a cowboy she would flip (I was living in the USA at the time), also she would lose it at other odd times.

The ranch owner bought her from a sales for me to event.

One day she went from standing still, we were chatting with friends, when suddenly she put her head down, leapt the twelve or so foot wide ditch ditch sideways, bogged off down the edge do the orchard (me flat on her back trying not to be swept off by the branches), leapt back sideways again onto the road. Stopped dead. Then was fine and sweet again.

We had a few other interesting sessions, inlcuding her pulling a tie-up stake out of the ground (sunk a good four feet in), but the final one came when the ranch owner was watching. She went from being completely fine, to completely losing it. Bronced, corkscrewed, bucked, reared, shot around the school at warp factor five. I came off three times - into the bottom of one of the school gate posts (flaming solid thing), onto the top rail (still have a dent in my wrist), and then she flew the gate from a standing start facing the other way (I landed on my back, having hit the gate post on the way and flipping over). The owner said enough. Cowboys couldn't get near her, and no-one but me would ride her. He had her put to sleep. The post-mortem showed a brain turmour.


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## Ilovefoals (24 October 2010)

Just wondering if the OP is going to reply?!


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## Allover (24 October 2010)

MrsMozart said:



			Sorry, not read all the replies, so apologies if I'm repeating anyone:

Has she been checked for a brain tumour? I ask because I used to ride a mare that had had a tough time of it. If she saw a cowboy she would flip (I was living in the USA at the time), also she would lose it at other odd times.

The ranch owner bought her from a sales for me to event.

One day she went from standing still, we were chatting with friends, when suddenly she put her head down, leapt the twelve or so foot wide ditch ditch sideways, bogged off down the edge do the orchard (me flat on her back trying not to be swept off by the branches), leapt back sideways again onto the road. Stopped dead. Then was fine and sweet again.

We had a few other interesting sessions, inlcuding her pulling a tie-up stake out of the ground (sunk a good four feet in), but the final one came when the ranch owner was watching. She went from being completely fine, to completely losing it. Bronced, corkscrewed, bucked, reared, shot around the school at warp factor five. I came off three times - into the bottom of one of the school gate posts (flaming solid thing), onto the top rail (still have a dent in my wrist), and then she flew the gate from a standing start facing the other way (I landed on my back, having hit the gate post on the way and flipping over). The owner said enough. Cowboys couldn't get near her, and no-one but me would ride her. He had her put to sleep. The post-mortem showed a brain turmour.
		
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I am presuming your currently broken back is not the only horse related injuryyou have ever had

Horses dont flip for no reason and it is usually pain or tumor related, one of the other posters has suggested thermal imaging, this could be a way forward.


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## Bertthefrog (24 October 2010)

I'd echo the brain tumour suggestion - and have heard a few people say they have been helped by animal communicators (just get recommendations!).

By all means try turning her away, or allowing someone - whether it be a natural horsemanship follower, or just a horseman/woman with a good reputation of dealing with troubled horses, have a look at her. Make sure you are brutally honest - so they are under no illusions as to what she may or may not do.

Do keep in mind though - if you are too wary of her, then don't ride her - and don't pass her on to someone else until you know for certain that the problem is solved. Never, ever, take risks with your, or anyone else's life.


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## MrsMozart (24 October 2010)

Allover said:



			I am presuming your currently broken back is not the only horse related injuryyou have ever had

Click to expand...

Lol, a dent in the wrist, but no broken bones or head damage or back damage . I bounced so much better in those days  

The mare that I was riding had had 120 days cow training (if memory serves me right). We think she had not taken well to it, hence the fear and behaviour whenever a cowboy got close . I don't know what caused the brain tumour.


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## Baileybones (26 October 2010)

Thanks to everyone for responding - all read and taken on board.

My vet came out today and we have checked mare out today from top to bottom (scans, Xrays etc). Up shot is a no pain so I am looking at a behaviour issue. 

We have come so far and she is starting to trust me so I know we can build on this. 

This time last year she had a melt down if the clippers were even on in thr same yard as her - the other week with the help of a Michael Peace dvd I clipped her with no drugs and tricks by myself with her just in a head collar. 

If she can take the clippers after her bad experience (pinned down and clipped as a yearling for the sales) then I think we can break down the tacking up as well with a similar technique. 

In answer to some of the questions she is 9 and I got her 18 months ago. 
She is fed on nothing but Hi Fi lite and grass / hay. She broke her jaw and pelvis when she was pulled over as a youngster with a chiffney in order to "teach her a lesson". 

She has bred one foal and the reason I got her was because despite covering her 3 times in one season she didn't take. She was hobbled to be covered!

I know plenty of people think I'm an idiot but she is with me forever however long that may turn out to be. If I have to make that final decision then I will but I will have tried my hardest first because someone owes her that much at least. I am really lucky to be on a private yard with only 2 others so I can make this decision without putting anyone else or their horses at risk.

I'm also going to see about rearranging my work hours so that i can work her in the mornings when the others are at work and safely out of the way.

Thanks again to everyone.


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## Keep Trying (26 October 2010)

Hi,

Sorry to hear of your problem.

Contact Carrie Humble (I think she's with Greatwood Racehorse Rehabilitation Centre) as she may have some experience of this, be able to give you some advice over the phone or at least point you in a better direction. 

Also, cut out absolutely ALL SUGAR - no carrots, apples, lickits, mints or anything else and cut out all hard feed as well. My horse was like this and a change of diet helped enourmously.

Good luck!!


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## pastie2 (26 October 2010)

Keep Trying said:



			Hi,

Sorry to hear of your problem.

Contact Carrie Humble (I think she's with Greatwood Racehorse Rehabilitation Centre) as she may have some experience of this, be able to give you some advice over the phone or at least point you in a better direction. 

Also, cut out absolutely ALL SUGAR - no carrots, apples, lickits, mints or anything else and cut out all hard feed as well. My horse was like this and a change of diet helped enourmously.

Good luck!!

Click to expand...

Carrie is the founder of The Thoroughbred Rehabilitation Centre.


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## SusannaF (26 October 2010)

Poor thing  No wonder she's scared.


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## Flash_28 (26 October 2010)

My TB mare was a total mentalist when I 1st took her on for free as she was going to be pts due to her dangerous behaviour. The woman lied to get rid of her. She had gotten her from someone else who had left her in the field in the middle of winter, underweight with no food or rug. I took her on anyway and I couldn't do anything with her at all to begin with. Took 4 and half hours to load her into the box to take her home. She went through stable doors, moody around everyone and WOULD attack you, they were not empty threats! The previous woman had fully clipped her under sedation as her coat was all matted and I couldn't even change a rug without holding onto her head and reaching back. She wouldn't allow 2 people round her at all. The vet said that if things didn't change then it would be best to pts. Slowly she started to change but the big changes came in when she was left to do her own thing really when my gelding was ill and on box rest for 9 months. She was just bought in and turned out and fed and that was about it really. She changed so much and as the years passed things became a lot easier. Small things like being able to bath her using a hose are now possible. She is the kindest and most gentle mare now. Still a sharp ride but anyone can handle her on the ground now. If you are able to just give her time out and take things slow, give it a go. People can't believe my mare is the same horse that tried to jump motorway bridge railings or bolted across motorways and fields with people!


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## 3Beasties (26 October 2010)

We had a mare like this on loan, she was an absolute sweetie UNTIL she flipped, it would come from nowhere and for no reason! I was only 11 at the time and liked to be involved with her (I was Mums Unpaid groom!) but after flipping twice, once when I was alone with her, she was sadly sent back to her owners where I believe she was PTS.

The thing that instantly springs to mind is a brain tumour..........


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## Jackobean (26 October 2010)

I've had a TB mare like this. Bought her from a woman who had turned her away for a number of years, never really got the true picture as to why. She was quite poor when I had her, had a number of health problems & terrible feet. She was a sweetie to begin with but gradually became more demented as her health improved. She too would just totally flip out, she used to throw herself on the floor, rear, so through doors, she was never horrible to people but was dangerous to be around & would easliy hurt you if you got in the way. 

She did get better when she buddied up with my old mare, this did create problems in itself when I seperated them, but this was better than her being just nuts as I could expect it - if that makes sense. Generally she was a loving horse but U could never predict her outbursts. The final straw came when she went deranged out on a hack on a motorway bridge - a bridge she had crossed almost daily. She took off, when I stopped her she had such a tantrum she leapt up landed on a car & was so deranged I had to get off - and I never do that.

I was in the same dilemma as you, I didn't know what to do. I bought her for my sister to ride who wasn't equipped to deal with her flip side. I couldn't risk riding her with 8 other horses & a full time job to deal with, I couldn't risk getting injured. After weeks of sleepless nights I ended up letting her go to an experienced family who kept her on a working yard. They approached me, I was very reluctant I have to say & they came & tested her out about 20 times until I was satisfied they had seen her perform. Obviously they knew all about everything I experienced with her. She was a different horse with all the work she had & ended up becoming one of the favourites on the yards that learners used! She's retired to gentle hacking now, still a bit of a stress head but doesn't have any problems.

Thinking back I do wonder if there were some issues that may have caused her problems. She'd been through a lot of change when we bought her - gone from being 2 down to 1, apparantly she didn't take to losing her friend well. Then we had her, my horse bullied her terribly. Her on going health problems did seem to get her down at times. Mentally I wonder if there was too much going on all at once and she just couldn't take it. Do u think there could be anything like that effecting your mare?

I wouldn't PTS just yet, not until I'd exhausted every avenue, but it may be the best thing in the end. My friend had a totally deranged horse who used to flip out on a regular basis for no apparant reason, she ended up dropping dead with a brain tumour - sorry, not a positive note to end on.


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## Pearlsasinger (26 October 2010)

I would take her off the HI-Fi Lite.  It contains alfalfa and molasses, although low sugar it is not 'no sugar'.  The mare I mentioned before couldn't tolerate ANY sugar AT ALL.  We could feed her on alfalfa but we have one now that cannot have alfalfa as that sends he loopy.  The TBx mare that couldn't eat sugar was very unpredictable in her behaviour until she got so bad that it was almost constant.  We think that she actually became psychotic.  We think that one reason that she was like this was that as a 2 yr old she had been kept very short of food (and roughly treated).  The breeder bought her back and fed her up but IMO the process happened too fast and she was given far too much hard feed.  This was in the '80s when it was considered 'old-fashioned' to feed horses a high fibre, low cereal diet.  I'm not surprised your mare finds it difficult to trust people after her experiences!


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## Perce (26 October 2010)

sorry, I do not have time to read all replies so am probably reiterating what others have said.

you do say that 'something will make her flip' so it would appear she does not just flip for no reason, there is a cause or reason for it. perhaps look for a pattern as to what causes her to flip and manage her care/environment to avoid this.

how old is she? 
is it connected to her hormones?

i have a mare who can be unpredictable. 
at one point i was told i would have to sort her out or she would become 'unrideable'. her behaviour as a youngster was often  'dangerous'. there are still the odd day i choose not to ride her as she is very hormonal and i feel it would be unwise. BUT As she has got older she has improved MASSIVELY. although when in season and something 'stresses her', or she feels under too much pressure, she can still be a bit challenging. 

 She will never be a novice ride and can still be  challenging when in season but is a pleasure to own, and  ride most of the time. She just needs very sensitive riding when necessary. I am not saying this is your mare, but do not underestimate the power of hormones on a mare's behaviour, or how much improvement comes with time and just growing up.

good luck.


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## Echo Bravo (26 October 2010)

I agree with Pearlsinger take her off the sugar, mine are on winergy low and it suits all 4. I think you are taking the right steps with your mare as it sounds like she's had a very bad time in the past. I couldn't find out much about my mare, only she came over from Ireland and what the previous owner was willing to tell me and the story kept changing.But I love her to pieces have done through the bad times and good, and the good times are getting better and better and she trusts people now not just me.Still cann't get her teeth done though, sigh


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## YorksG (26 October 2010)

I would remove the alfalfa as it is a phyto-oestrogen, which can cause problems with some mares. In fact my friend deliberately feeds alfalfa to her late cut gelding as it calms down his rather stallionish tendancies. My mareish mare cannot have alfalfa as it causes tantrums (usually on the road!)


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## Natch (26 October 2010)

I'm not one to go for the PTS option easily, but if she really does flip out for no apparent reason I would advise PTS. I can only think that if she if physically fine she might have some sort of a brain problem - tumors and something akin to epilepsy have been known to cause such behaviour.


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## Rose Folly (27 October 2010)

I feel nervous answering this in case anything should go badly wrong for you and your mare, but I had one with rather similar problems and She/we overcame them - more or less.

I acquired what I thought was a depressed, dejected, malnourished TB mare. She was all of those things but she also had a very violent, mistrusting nature. She knocked me down, bit me, kicked me. I remember my son's horror when on coming home from uni just after I got her I said "Come and see my new horse", and she knocked me down within about 30 seconds.

By pure chance I then discovered her background. She had been sold as a 2yr old to a girl who had turned her out in a field with no horse or hiuman company for 18 months. The man who had owned her sire was so upset he bought her, and found he had a pretty deranged horse on his hands. Just today I found the notes I took in my telephone conversation with this man "so wild we couldn't have her vetted - reared up and put her front feet on the vet's shoulders!" "When broken, put her into training (her dam had been a very useful hurdler) - trainer sent her back after 3 weeks as unrideable.." "Show jumped to international standard with daughter - an AI - but daughter too frightened to handle her on the ground".

Unfortunately due to family ill-health Rose had to be sold, had 3 foals and was just sliding down the slippery hill when I bought her.

As I knew none of this until she had already started improving I had just worked doggedly on, because she was the most beautiful horse I have ever seen, because I loved her, and because everybody said I couldn't bring her round. It was the biggest challenge I've ever faced with a horse. I have no letters after my name but just many years of being around horses, and so I just started from scratch as though she had been wild. I found the thing that helped her most was "hand-grooming", which you never see done nowadays, but horses love it. You basically groom them, head to toe, but using the palm of your hand instead of a brush. Whenever I went to see her in the field or when I brought her in I always did this, even if for only 30 seconds - it was our greeting moment. I also did join up (difficult as we don't have a pen or manege but it worked in the open field) and I spent 'non-horse' time with her, e.g. taking a cup of coffee out and sitting on the fence near her drinking it, podding peas on an old stool in the yard - just anything to build her trust.

She was a misery to ride at first, as she flung her head about and jogged. I'd seen pictures of her showjumping with the kitchen sink in her mouth, but I changed to a hackamore and she loved it. We did a little LDR but her legs weren't up to it after all the jumping.

I had her for 5 years till she sadly had to be PTS with a twisted gut, and she and I trusted each other. She behaved impeccably with the one livery owner I had then, and with my son. She was very cool to strangers, but her behaviour improved so much that I didn't worry.

Sorry this has been a long ramble, but it's an issue close to my heart. As I said, I have no qualifications apart from experience, and you probably have much more. Think a plan through, talk it over with friends, and always be aware of what your mare could do. Forewarned is forearmed! And I do hope you can bring her round.


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## LizzyandToddy (27 October 2010)

I know situations like this that span both ways, success and pts. 

If your going to PTS I think in my opinion you need to feel asthough you have tried absolutly everything, so you cannot think back and get attacked by the 'whatifs'. It's obvious you really love the mare, and she has an aweful lot to overcome, but if she has already improved so much, then I think it would be wrong to waste that time.

If you knew a troubled child would you give up hope? Probably not. You'd try different things.

If all else fails turn her out in a field. Let her be a horse for a while. And try start over again.
And if still nothing. I'm sure she could make a lovely field companion 
Either way, don't rush into anything.

Last thing we want is either one of you to get hurt.


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## FleabittenT (27 October 2010)

Honestly? I would pull her shoes off, rug her up & turn her away. For at least 6 months, if not 12.

Then start her again quietly, consistently & with relevant support.

What have you got to loose?


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## Hippona (27 October 2010)

thatsmygirl said:



			This is a very good point which I forgot to mention, diet can be a big part off behaviour ESP cereals and high sugar feeds. I won't feed any mixes or sugar beet to any horse and stick with low sugar,starch feed. It's made a huge difference to horses iv worked with
		
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I strongly believe this too......two of my horses  came to me as highly strung nervous wrecks.....a high fibre/oil diet has totally changed their behaviour.

I'm sure you'll have looked into this though.

Nothing to add except I understand how stressful this must be for you. ((hugs))


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## AndySpooner (27 October 2010)

One of our horses an AQH was showing very similar behaviour to the horse described.

Very sudden changes in temperment, explosive reactions, becoming almost unmanageable.

She ran at full gallop through a dry stone wall and barbed wire fence, no damage to her thank god. I saw her do that and seeing a horse with that speed, weight and acceleration just demolish everything in her path made me think we had made an awful mistake buying her.

On another occasion she smashed a wooden five bar gate to match wood in seconds.

She would have a glazed look in her eyes like no ones there.

After one of these outbursts, things settled and she was sweetness and light, a really lovely mare.

The solution was diet, she is sugar intolerant, anything with sugar or traces of sugar sets her off.

Its been some years now since all that and I often think about how close I came to losing her.

I note that the horse described has some severe past injuries, I'm really lucky mine did not have the same. 

I assume as an ex racer, a lot of sugar/grain has been in her diet in the past.

Try cutting out sugar/grain as others here have suggested, it may work and is easy to do.


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## Echo Bravo (27 October 2010)

Rose Folly. A person after mine on heart. Every animal should have a second chance after abuse, some take longer than others, perhaps we should treat humans like we do animals. PTS those that are anti social or violent to others that would get my vote everytime


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## Baileybones (1 November 2010)

Thank you all so much for all of your advice!

Finally some good news to report I think (fingers still crossed!).

I had my vet out on Tuesday who checked her over from top to bottom and ruled no pain - lousy temper :-(

Today Michael Peace came out. I called him as I needed help truth be told and also so that those around me who are being affected by my decision to keep this mare could also see that I really am taking this issue seriously.

I can not thank him enough. He is the most quiet unnassuming man I have ever met and his manner is just brilliant. 

He worked quietly with her and the end result was a quiet happy mare who had actually thought through everything and agreed to everything instead of having things forced upon her. 

I realised that I have almost tried to untack too fast and by rushing her I probably stressed her out further. I also couldn't believe how she reacted with her own bridle compared to her lunge bridle (never seen a horse react to individual kit like that).

I feel like a huge weight has been listed and although not cured I now feel as if I have the tools to deal with whatever we end up facing in the future. 

I love the bones of this mare and I know she can be brilliant! Everything bad in her world has happened because of people but I will prove to her that I deserve her trust. 

Thank you all again

x


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## Echo Bravo (1 November 2010)

And well done you for taking time out and trying to find what troubled your mare and not giving up.


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## Allover (1 November 2010)

Baileybones said:



			I love the bones of this mare and I know she can be brilliant! Everything bad in her world has happened because of people but I will prove to her that I deserve her trust. 

Thank you all again

x
		
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She is lucky to have you at last, i hope you have a long and happy life together, best of luck


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## Flash_28 (1 November 2010)

So glad that you have made progress with your mare! Well done to both of you x


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## better half (2 November 2010)

Sounds like she enjoyed her first lesson in rational thinking.  I hope you both do well together and don't look back.


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## better half (1 March 2011)

Can you give an update?


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## pedilia (1 March 2011)

Another one who would love to know how your are both getting on.


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## Tamba (1 March 2011)

would love to hear how the mare is progressing??


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## Baileybones (16 March 2013)

I appreciate that this is probably the longest delay ever in delivering an update but just thought some of you who took the time to give advice would like to know how my girl is doing.
We are now a few years down the line and I have to say she is my horse of a lifetime! The idea of being without her now leaves me cold. She is still opinionated and full of attitude but she is the bravest mare I have ever met! Providing I remember my manners and ask questions she would tackle anything! I know her inside out now so the unpredictability has gone and to an outsider looking in she is a normal horse. Would I trust her with anyone else?no but that probably says more about me than her and I'm possibly doing her a disservice. 
I just wanted to let you know what a fabulous horse I have and to anyone who is struggling don't be afraid to ask for help. We did and we've never looked back


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## Roasted Chestnuts (16 March 2013)

Baileybones said:



			I appreciate that this is probably the longest delay ever in delivering an update but just thought some of you who took the time to give advice would like to know how my girl is doing.
We are now a few years down the line and I have to say she is my horse of a lifetime! The idea of being without her now leaves me cold. She is still opinionated and full of attitude but she is the bravest mare I have ever met! Providing I remember my manners and ask questions she would tackle anything! I know her inside out now so the unpredictability has gone and to an outsider looking in she is a normal horse. Would I trust her with anyone else?no but that probably says more about me than her and I'm possibly doing her a disservice. 
I just wanted to let you know what a fabulous horse I have and to anyone who is struggling don't be afraid to ask for help. We did and we've never looked back 

Click to expand...

Congrats 

pop up some piccies of your achievements. Great news


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## Elsiecat (17 March 2013)

Fantastic. Well done to you and her


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## horseandshoes77 (17 March 2013)

Baileybones said:



			I really need some advice.

I have a a tb mare who I got 18 months ago. She is stroppy at best and dangerous at worst but I honestly think she doesn't mean any harm.

She came from racing and had a very hard time - broken pelvis, broken jaw etc so is is very distrusting. She has got much better and is really talented and trys so hard.

Every now and then though something will set her off and she will flip! Today I was tacking her up and something set her off and she reared up and the proceeded to smash up the yard, the school fence, herself and her bridle. 

My instructor watched her today and has said that she honestly thinks this mare will end up hurting or killing either me or herself.

I can't pass her on and wouldn't dream of breeding from a horse with a temperment like this but I don't want to make a final decision that I will live to regret.

Do you think its possible that this unpredictable dangerous behaviour will stop in time or am I just kidding myself??

Within minutes of exploding she is back for cuddles. She has seen dentists, vets, farriers, physios and chiros.

Any ideas welcomed.
		
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yip think long term,, everyone will say oh pts dangerous mare..me give it time patience and good handling and shell come round, took my mare 6 months to trust me enough to be comfortable with me in her sable, shes still stupid with strangers and the vet...but my god shes fantastic at her job, jumps for fun and looks after me, don't be so quick to give up...some people just think pts if they aren't robots...how dangerous is she really.. I mean with good management and correct feed etc, dangerous is a very diff thing to being a pain in ass, altho these days if horse doesn't conform to our standards it seems everyone suggests pts... most probs is pain related..eliminate cause of pain and see if mare is ok...I know you say everything been checked..but something must trigger it...iv yet to meet a horse who just blows for no apparent reason !


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## AmiRobertson (17 March 2013)

I loved reading this thread! Amazing story!


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## Adopter (17 March 2013)

Well done and so nice to read a happy outcome.


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## Equilibrium Ireland (17 March 2013)

Well done you!!!! Great update!

Terri


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## debsflo (17 March 2013)

wow,youve made me cry,what a fabulous outcome......


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## 1Lucie (17 March 2013)

Omg how awful :-( I think I would consider pts


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## 1Lucie (17 March 2013)

Omg just saw date and update! What a fab result!!


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## ImmyS (17 March 2013)

Baileybones said:



			Thanks to everyone for responding - all read and taken on board.

My vet came out today and we have checked mare out today from top to bottom (scans, Xrays etc). Up shot is a no pain so I am looking at a behaviour issue. 

We have come so far and she is starting to trust me so I know we can build on this. 

This time last year she had a melt down if the clippers were even on in thr same yard as her - the other week with the help of a Michael Peace dvd I clipped her with no drugs and tricks by myself with her just in a head collar. 

If she can take the clippers after her bad experience (pinned down and clipped as a yearling for the sales) then I think we can break down the tacking up as well with a similar technique. 

In answer to some of the questions she is 9 and I got her 18 months ago. 
She is fed on nothing but Hi Fi lite and grass / hay. She broke her jaw and pelvis when she was pulled over as a youngster with a chiffney in order to "teach her a lesson". 

She has bred one foal and the reason I got her was because despite covering her 3 times in one season she didn't take. She was hobbled to be covered!

I know plenty of people think I'm an idiot but she is with me forever however long that may turn out to be. If I have to make that final decision then I will but I will have tried my hardest first because someone owes her that much at least. I am really lucky to be on a private yard with only 2 others so I can make this decision without putting anyone else or their horses at risk.

I'm also going to see about rearranging my work hours so that i can work her in the mornings when the others are at work and safely out of the way.

Thanks again to everyone.
		
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With a mare like this and judging by the response you had from her towards clipping when you took a different approach I would certainly be looking into natural horsemanship with her. 

My ex racers mare has never been dangerous but aggressive? Yes. Lacking confidence and trust? Yes. A stress head? Absolutely. We begun doing natural horsemanship groundwork with her the summer we bought her and it has done nothing but help her in every way possible. She is much more confident (can now be generally left alone and will hack alone whereas before she would not leave the yard), she is very rarely aggressive in any manner and she is just so much more chilled and happy.

The natural horsemanship exercises are brilliant, you can see the cogs working as they figure things out and when they lick and chew after completing an exercise you see how much they are thinking about what they've done.. I find it brilliant and I hope you'll explore a similar route before having to make decision.


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## ImmyS (17 March 2013)

Sorry just seen how old this thread is and the update! Congratulations that's fab news


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## FinalFurlong (17 March 2013)

Haven't read all replies. 

I've always firmly believed horses do everything for a reason. 
Pain has been ruled out then, so its a mental issue. I've also always believed any mental issue can be resolved with A LOT of time. You need to think through every single thing that could possibly be causing her behaviour, if something happens just before she goes mad etc and ring her trainer and past trainers (you can find her past trainers by typing her name into racingpost.com) to find out all information they have. They could say something that explains this for example did anything happen to her whilst in training.

Best of luck


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## FinalFurlong (17 March 2013)

Ah just seen update, that is FANTASTIC news you should be really proud


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## Delicious_D (17 March 2013)

What an awe inspiring thread .Fantasatic OP!. For what its worth, i wouldnt have PTS, the mare sounded like she just needed a chance and wanted to be heard.


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## Wagtail (17 March 2013)

Fabulous news! So pleased you did not listen to those saying PTS. I do however think there is ALWAYS a reason for such behaviour, and it is usually physical. However, it seems that in this case it was mental. Did you ever get to the bottom of what triggered her behaviour?


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## charlie76 (17 March 2013)

Not read all the replies but isn't just when you tack her up ( bridle) she flips out? If so check her ears for aural plaque. I have had two horses now behave in a similar fashion when tacking up due to this. One ran backwards through a stable wall so they can be quite difficult with it. Once it was treated they were totally fine to tack up.


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## niagaraduval (17 March 2013)

If she can't be a field companion I too would sadly PTS.


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## kirstyl (17 March 2013)

Well done for persevering. So pleased for both of you that it has worked out so well


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## daisydoo (17 March 2013)

Just read through the entire thread, so pleased theres a positive outcome for you and horsey. You are what being a horse owner is all about, great result enjoy your lovely horse! X


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## HBM1 (17 March 2013)

If she has been badly treated she is lacking in trust now.  Can you spend time with her, I mean months, not days, just being with her, grooming, feeding etc and not asking anything of her.  See how she is when you just have quality time and no demands - she may need a lot of nurturing to get over the nasty treatment of her past - but if you can truly gain her trust you may have a lovely long-term partnership on your hands.  It makes me so angry to think how some poor horses have been treated.

edited to add - whoops teach me not to look at the date of a post - I am so pleased for your mare that she met you.  Congratulations both


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## Baileybones (17 March 2013)

Thank you all so much! I can just about remember what it felt like to hit rock bottom and just thought if our story can give someone else hope then all the better! 
I now adore my quirky mare and she always chooses to come and see me and always comes over as soon as I appear in the field! Our bond is honestly different to any relationship I've had with other horses.


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## Baileybones (17 March 2013)

Also anyone know how I can amend my original title or thread so people can see this is an update? I've mastered typing but that appears to be my limit ;-) x


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## Shadow the Reindeer (17 March 2013)

Is it likely the damage to her head has caused brain trauma? Hence her jackal and hyde behaviour? I can't imagine anyone getting away from such a traumatic injuries without any form of damage, whether temporary or permanent. To break a horses jaw, it must have been some impact/accident.
Sending you good luck vibes and hope she keeps on improving x


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## MerrySherryRider (17 March 2013)

Wonderful update. Congratulations to both of you and so glad you didn't listen to the advice suggesting PTS.

 I was advised to PTS a mare like yours and yet she turned out to be an absolute cracker and as honest as they come.

 Sometimes patience, problem solving and a belief that there's an honest horse behind the behaviour brings a resolution like yours.
 Sending you a cyber handshake.


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## Elsbells (17 March 2013)

You'll never have a bond quite as strong or deep with any other horse OP, as you will have with her,  because it is forged through fire which makes it special.

My mare and I have been exactly where you are now. It was worth every step of the way though despite all the tears and sleepless nights. We have both learnt so much and belong to each other and we are both stuck like glue.

I really believe that horses can and are often pushed over the edge and that they do suffer from nervous breakdowns just like us. You've fallen in love with her because you can feel her pain and your now taking the first steps on a hard and long journey which is always a gamble. Learn from it. Stay safe and enjoy the ride of your life!


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## Holly Hocks (17 March 2013)

I've just read this thread from start to finish and I have tears in my eyes.  OP I'm so glad you persevered - wonderful outcome.  You're an inspiration.


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## Coblover63 (17 March 2013)

So glad you persevered and have had such a good outcome


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## Tammytoo (17 March 2013)

I started reading your post (before noticing the date!) and would have recommended you try Michael Peace for your troubled mare.  The man is a genius, no fixed system, magic headcollars, etc just plain common sense, experience and the ability to understand what is troubling the horse.

The best bit of advice I got from him was that it takes 8-9 minutes for a horse to assess a new/strange situation, but most people don't give them more than a few minutes before trying to force them.


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## Alaadin (17 March 2013)

What a wonderful story!

I hope some people are kicking themselves in the teeth now. Especially one person's quite frankly disgusting comment that this horse didn't deserve a second chance. I hope they never end up with a problem horse.

Well done OP!


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## Baileybones (17 March 2013)

Thank you all. I can't tell you how many people told me not to keep going and told me I was stupid for putting up with a dangerous horse. At times I was so torn as I knew if anyone got hurt I'd never forgive myself. That said I don't believe there is such a thing as a bad horse and I really wanted to make up for all of the awful things that had happened to this mare at the hands of those who were supposed to look after her. 

Tammytoo - it was Michael Peace I called - we owe him everything  x


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## MerrySherryRider (17 March 2013)

Tammytoo said:



			I started reading your post (before noticing the date!) and would have recommended you try Michael Peace for your troubled mare.  The man is a genius, no fixed system, magic headcollars, etc just plain common sense, experience and the ability to understand what is troubling the horse.

The best bit of advice I got from him was that it takes 8-9 minutes for a horse to assess a new/strange situation, but most people don't give them more than a few minutes before trying to force them.
		
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I used Mike Peace a few years back and agree with you, he is genius and a genuine horseman.


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## MrsMozart (17 March 2013)

How lovely 

So very pleased and thank you for the update


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## _Phoenix_ (17 March 2013)

I was going to suggest it could of maybe Hormonal before I got to the end. 

Im so glad things are going really well for you both. 

Its a wonderful feeling to know all the blood,sweat and tears are worth it in the end.


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## Elsbells (17 March 2013)

Elsbells said:



			You'll never have a bond quite as strong or deep with any other horse OP, as you will have with her,  because it is forged through fire which makes it special.

My mare and I have been exactly where you are now. It was worth every step of the way though despite all the tears and sleepless nights. We have both learnt so much and belong to each other and we are both stuck like glue.

I really believe that horses can and are often pushed over the edge and that they do suffer from nervous breakdowns just like us. You've fallen in love with her because you can feel her pain and your now taking the first steps on a hard and long journey which is always a gamble. Learn from it. Stay safe and enjoy the ride of your life!

Click to expand...

Whoops! I missed the date too! but was I right eh?

Well done you!!!


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## Baileybones (19 March 2013)

Thanks again all 
I got held up today getting away from work and when I got to the yard my girl had been brought in, had her feet washed and her rugs changed! Such a little thing but when you consider the horse I had at the start of this thread I could have burst with pride! 
Little things hey


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## hoofie (19 March 2013)

So delighted with the happy ending you and your mare have!! I've not been a horse owner that long but went through a few probs with my pony when we moved her to a new yard and some people were so quick to write her off as a danger but we persevered as i knew it wasn't like her to behave like she was and it turned out her back was bothering her. She is much better now thank god and people who disregarded her before have commented on what a great pony she is!! Wouldn't be without her. I wish i had saw your post back when i was losing hope and doubting my pony!! Sounds like your mare has found someone who finally gives her the the love she needed!!!


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## Baileybones (22 March 2013)

Some pics as requested 






When I first got her (I blame the hangover for making me say yes!) ;-)







Tacked up! and happy







Exhausting being so good now!


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## Wagtail (22 March 2013)

Can't see any pics?


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## Magicmillbrook (22 March 2013)

What a great story.  Well done for working it through and what a lucky horse to have you.  That said, I wouldn't have judged you if you had decided enough is enough and PTS.  Less lucky horses may have been passed on from pillar to post causing themselves and others misery and injury.  Hooray for you both!


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## pootleperkin (22 March 2013)

Fantastic story   if i ever run into trouble, I know which man to call ( or read his books!)


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## ridefast (22 March 2013)

A lovely story, well done for persevering and giving her a chance


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## horseandshoes77 (5 June 2013)

an old thread but just wondered wether there was any info on mare an rider now?? as so many people were pts pts... it was refreshing to see an owner actually try patience and other methods... would be lovely to get an update ??


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## Baileybones (8 June 2013)

horseandshoes77 said:



			an old thread but just wondered wether there was any info on mare an rider now?? as so many people were pts pts... it was refreshing to see an owner actually try patience and other methods... would be lovely to get an update ??
		
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Hello there! My girl is an absolute bloody star! 
Took her for her first dressage outing today. So much could have gone wrong as local show with hundreds of horses with "interesting" steering,first go on grass,first time seeing white boards etc! 

She was superb! Wound up but reasonably so and actually produced some amazing work. Scored a very respectable 58.7%! 

I have to read this thread back and barely remember the horse she was. She will always be tricky and you can never never be complacent around her but it is worth it and I'm so glad I persevered and sought help! 

Hope this helps x


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## Tobiano (8 June 2013)

Wow! First time I have seen all this - what an inspiring story.  Well done Baileybones


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## Baileybones (8 June 2013)

tobiano said:



			Wow! First time I have seen all this - what an inspiring story.  Well done Baileybones 

Click to expand...

Thank you! Believe me there are still days that people tell me I'm wasting my time but they're few and far between now and besides now I just smile and nod ;-)

I am so lucky to have her in my life! (Even if the miserable old baggage doesn't always appreciate the lengths I've gone to to keep her alive) x


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## Baileybones (8 June 2013)

When I got her


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## Baileybones (8 June 2013)

Her last summer (3yrs in)


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## harveysmom (8 June 2013)

Hi i have some idea what you are going through, Harvey has been sold so many times and thats the ones i know of, hes been through 2 horse sales etc.
I did all the checks, x-rays and nothing came back so i was told no pain
It has taken me from buying Harvey in 2007 till this year to have his problem diagnosed
I was told that Harvey was a lucky boy as most horses with his condition dont normally live past 3 years old. His problem, he has mild hip dysplasia, he can carry his own weight fine and moves beautifully and i have been told that he can be ridden, with conditions.
Only one rider [he will learn to carry one riding style]
He will not be able to work in an outline as this will put to much strain on the joint
LOTS of physio and he will let me know when [by reverting to bucking and rearing]
Harvey is staying with me for the rest of his life and im not putting him back to work, he is 15 now so we will stick to in-hand showing 
Thats Harveys job 
I think your decision is really how far you want to go and how long you can wait
your horse is trying to tell you something
When your horse was being pulled over with the chifney to teach her a lesson [resulting in broken jaw,pelvis]what was she being naughty about
There is something else, something missing. She will be like the layers of an onion giving you little bits as the layers come away, some mental baggage will mask other problems until she is ready to show you or you give up
KEEP SAFE IN THE MEANTIME


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## Baileybones (8 June 2013)

harveysmom said:



			Hi i have some idea what you are going through, Harvey has been sold so many times and thats the ones i know of, hes been through 2 horse sales etc.
I did all the checks, x-rays and nothing came back so i was told no pain
It has taken me from buying Harvey in 2007 till this year to have his problem diagnosed
I was told that Harvey was a lucky boy as most horses with his condition dont normally live past 3 years old. His problem, he has mild hip dysplasia, he can carry his own weight fine and moves beautifully and i have been told that he can be ridden, with conditions.
Only one rider [he will learn to carry one riding style]
He will not be able to work in an outline as this will put to much strain on the joint
LOTS of physio and he will let me know when [by reverting to bucking and rearing]
Harvey is staying with me for the rest of his life and im not putting him back to work, he is 15 now so we will stick to in-hand showing 
Thats Harveys job 
I think your decision is really how far you want to go and how long you can wait
your horse is trying to tell you something
When your horse was being pulled over with the chifney to teach her a lesson [resulting in broken jaw,pelvis]what was she being naughty about
There is something else, something missing. She will be like the layers of an onion giving you little bits as the layers come away, some mental baggage will mask other problems until she is ready to show you or you give up
KEEP SAFE IN THE MEANTIME
		
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Thank you 

This is a really old post though and I'd just been asked to give an update. My girl  is doing so so well now. Good luck with your boy - I hope you also get a happy ending x


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## diamonddogs (8 June 2013)

What a fantastic story! Like the others I had tears in my eyes when you came back with the report after two years!

My own mare had a very troubled abusive past, but like a lot of horses, she suffered in silence with the occasional panic attack, and was never dangerous, but calmly and slowly won through, and like yours, my mare is an absolute dream to own.

I always say, a perfect horse is nice to find, but a troubled horse will teach you so much more, and your bond will be so much tighter, as a wise poster said earlier, it was forged with fire.


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## Baileybones (23 September 2020)

Morning All

Not sure if anyone would remember the original thread but thought I'd give an update on the "old" girl as she is now. 
She is still a grumpy opinionated witch most days but wouldn't change that for the world. 

She's 19 now and I've just retired her sound. She had a tough old start in life so I wanted to make sure her retirement was not because of an injury so when she started to not love the work so much I called it a day. 
She now has a new field buddy (another TB of course but I treated myself to a gelding this time) and she is very happy just walking about eating and pooing and costing me money. 

She taught me more about myself and horses then I realised I needed to learn. I'll always be debt to her but I think the score is fairly equal if you consider how many times I was told to write her off and didn't. 

Hope this gives someone out there having a tough time a bit of hope.


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## Baileybones (23 September 2020)

Said retired steed


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## Flicker (23 September 2020)

What a lovely, kind eye she has.


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## Equi (23 September 2020)

I adore that this has been a full yeaaaars long update. What a lucky mare to have came to you. Happy retirement love


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## SashaBabe (23 September 2020)

What a beautiful horse.  She was so lucky to have found you.  Hope she has many happy years in retirement.


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## Dexter (23 September 2020)

For anyone with a horse like this please consider PSSM. Its found in TBs and warmbloods and reading this from start to finish there are lots of horses mentioned that sound like they have it. Someone said about their horse being unable to cope with sugar, this is also likely to be related to a muscle myopathy, rather than a direct issue with the sugar itself


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## Gloi (23 September 2020)

Lovely update


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## Trouper (23 September 2020)

She looks stunning - a real credit to you.  Hope you can enjoy her retirement, too!!


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## Dyllymoo (23 September 2020)

Wow..... what an amazing post, just read from start to finish.  I hope she has a super retirement


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## SaddlePsych'D (23 September 2020)

Beautiful pic, what a lucky lucky horse!


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## Baileybones (23 September 2020)

Thank you all 

I actually haven't been on here for years but was looking for something else and google brought me here. I thought I'd see if my original post was still here and then made myself feel old by realising it's about 10yrs old now!!

I'm so glad I put it all in writing - I'd forgotten some of the things until I read them again today.


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## Winters100 (23 September 2020)

What a journey you have had together - fantastic. And well done for giving her the life she deserves. She is one lucky horse.


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