# Vet this afternoon- wind problems



## scats (10 May 2017)

As some of you know, the Diva was diagnosed  at the end of last year with what the vet thinks is PSSM.  We have treated her as such and changed her diet and there definitely was a massive improvement in her muscles.  However, one problem has remained and appears to be getting worse and that is her constant puffing and extremely heavy breathing once put into trot.
At the time, the vet said that he hoped the breathing was linked to her muscle issues, but that if this did not improve, we could investigate it further.

Her blowing and puffing, and extreme fatigue afterwards, has been so severe that we had limited ourselves to Intro tests and although we have always done very short bursts of canter in the school at home and out around the fields, the majority of her work has been at walk and trot and she sounds constantly like she's ran the national.  She just cannot sustain more than a few strides of canter as her breathing just goes out of control and she gets extremely fatigued.  Due to us just doing Intro tests, I hadn't really pushed the canter, but having decided to take the step up to prelim, it has become apparent that she cannot sustain canter for more than a long side of the school without sounding dreadfully blowy. This then makes the puffing in trot a whole lot worse.  I can only get it back to normal once she has walked around for a while.

Yesterday, within 30 seconds of starting to trot, she was blowing and puffing.  It happens that fast.  We mostly did the session in trot, she managed one semi-ok canter for about half the school before she couldn't carry on.  The whole session was 25 minutes long, mostly walk and trot and the noise from her was awful.  She doesn't roar or whistle, just blows heavily like she has really exerted herself.  Her heart rate and breathing seem to return to normal quite quickly afterwards, but in herself she looks half dead and very sweaty.  It takes her a few hours to 'recover'. This pony has been in consistent work for nearly 3 years and she should be a hell of a lot fitter than she appears.

I cooled her off and then rang the vet straight away and they are booked to come out today to discuss what we do next, as there is something telling me that there is an underlying wind issue and I am going to ask for her to go in and have her airway scoped.

She never coughs and there is no sign of any breathing problems in the stable.  I have heard her make the same blowing noise when cantering out in the field, however.

I'm not really sure why I'm posting this, other than to write it all down, but any experiences of similar would be helpful.


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## scats (10 May 2017)

Just to add- I posted about this a couple of months ago and contacted the vet that week, who suggested that I continue with the diet and increase her workload slightly over the coming months, to see how we got on.  The pony is a naturally very good doer and the vet was keen to try and get some weight off her as we moved into spring.
This is where we are up to basically, but the pony has made no improvement at all.


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## SEL (10 May 2017)

There's been a number of posts on the FB PSSM forum over the years about heavy breathing PSSM horses. Mine is type 1 and if her muscles are tight then her breathing suffers. She's got the wobbliest bottom muscles she's had in 2 years right now and her breathing is fine.

I did put it down to allergies last year and I still think there is a problem with something hayfever like, but the heavy breathing was there over winter when she was barely rideable due to PSSM, so I'm now assuming muscular.

I have found Dr Valberg (the PSSM expert) very approachable over email [address on-line] and she's given me pointers for discussion with the UK vets, so if you don't feel that you're making much progress with your own vet then might be worth dropping her a line.


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## scats (10 May 2017)

SEL said:



			There's been a number of posts on the FB PSSM forum over the years about heavy breathing PSSM horses. Mine is type 1 and if her muscles are tight then her breathing suffers. She's got the wobbliest bottom muscles she's had in 2 years right now and her breathing is fine.

I did put it down to allergies last year and I still think there is a problem with something hayfever like, but the heavy breathing was there over winter when she was barely rideable due to PSSM, so I'm now assuming muscular.

I have found Dr Valberg (the PSSM expert) very approachable over email [address on-line] and she's given me pointers for discussion with the UK vets, so if you don't feel that you're making much progress with your own vet then might be worth dropping her a line.
		
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Thank you, if I felt there was some improvement at times, I would probably think it was linked to her muscles, but there have been times her muscles have felt very loose and free but the blowing and panting has remained exactly the same.

I'm headed off to meet the vet at the yard in a minute.


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## scats (10 May 2017)

Vet was with me well over an hour. The Diva presented with a high respiration rate and heart rate at rest and was very lethargic.  She's always a bit out of sorts the day after a bad attack and yesterday was particularly bad.  Anyway, obvious thing was to check for pain that could be causing this so first thought was lami.  Did lots of checks, hoof testers, walking, trotting, tight circles, didn't appear to show any signs.
We took her in and blood tested her and then stuck her on the lunge for 15 minutes.  Instantly she started puffing in trot and got progressively noisier.  In the canter we actually got a whistle.  After 10 minutes she was flagging and trying to stop, vet took over and kept her going for longer and then we stopped her and checked her rates again.  Heart rate was very high for what she had done, respiration high but came down quickly, but then remained at too high a rate for a recovering horse.  Blood tested again.
10 minutes later, respiration still too high and very noisy.
Vet says she looks and acts like a horse who has been pulled out of the field after 3 years and made to work.  This horse has been in work now for 3 years, with no major time off.  Her heart rate and respiration rate match an animal with a poor level of fitness, yet she should not be like this.

First off, we are going to assume she has EMS.  I've always treated her as such with diet and grazing restrictions, but vet thinks we should start her on metformin.

Secondly, we will get the bloods back tomorrow and see if there were elevated readings after the exercise, to see if this could still be connected to PSSM/muscle problems.

Thirdly, we will be sending her in to Leahurst (our local, we are 15 mins away) for an overground endoscope.

She's now on light duties- I've been told to keep her hacking and doing some trot work, hoping to get her in next week.

I feel absolutely sick, if I'm honest.


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## kinnygirl1 (10 May 2017)

Just to say I have had a similar issue with my horses breathing...maybe not quite as quickly as yours but definitely more puffed than he should be for level of activity. Tested for PSSM but negative... Tested positive for EMS last week and vet wants to try Metformin. Unfortunately he had to have an operation last week for an unrelated issue and is now recovering on box rest so yet to start the Metformin and check for improvement... Keep us updated on yours...my vet says EMS is manageable and not the end of the world.


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## Peregrine Falcon (10 May 2017)

Hmmm, thanks for posting.  My friend has a pony with a wind issue.  Some food for thought here.


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## FfionWinnie (11 May 2017)

Good luck. I hope you get some easily treatable answers!


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## scats (13 May 2017)

Feeling a bit dejected this morning.  Actually, that's an understatement.

Vet left a message last night to say that he's spoken to the hospital vet and that's absolutely fine for her to come in for an endoscopy, but they doubt they will find anything.  It was mentioned on him leaving the other day, despite everything, that she may just be fat and unfit so it's likely that's the view the hospital vet has taken as well.  Unfortunately my phone didn't ring out so I only got the message and couldn't speak to the vet as it was out of hours by the time they called and they didn't leave a direct number.

I feel like I'm banging my head against the wall.  

This pony has been in consistent work since July 2014, ridden 6 days a week, competes every other weekend in summer and farm rides the weekends in between, doing between 4-6 miles in all paces and jumping, worked consistently all winter with a mix of schooling and hacking... she is worked properly- my horses don't just trundle about, and I have produced horses over 25 years for a variety of disciplines... but the point I am trying to get through to them is that she shouldn't be making these noises and appear this unfit after 3 years.  This is my issue, that I can't seem to get this horse fit.  Instantly in trot her heavy breathing starts and she fatigues very quickly.  I push her through it, but it doesn't let up, so by the end of every session I have an absolutely exhausted pony.  I do often have to give her short walk breaks to get her breath back to normal, but on progressing into trot again, the blowing starts.  That aside, she is still ridden for 45minutes to an hour.

The bloods came back clear, even the post-exercise ones, but the vet did say that due to how puffed the pony was, we only lunged her for 15 minutes and for a true reading we would have had to keep her going for half an hour, but they think the breathing may not be linked to muscle involvement now.

At the end of last year, I got a vet out (different one, same practice) about this issue, and they couldn't see beyond her weight and said she was probably just fat and unfit.  This vet didn't watch her work, so didn't witness the noises or fatigue.I completely agreed that she was fat, but again explained the problem.  Some bloods were taken and I said that I would work hard over the winter to get her weight down and see if any difference was made to her breathing and performance, as I was getting no where with this vet understanding my problem.

So over winter she lost the small amount ofusual weight she does, not a huge amount at all but winter is always the slimmest I can get her, and yet the noisy breathing and fatigue remained.  I plugged away for 6 months, increasing her workload and trying to push her through it, and there was absolutely no change.  Hence why I decided to follow this back up again.

She is slightly overweight (chunky cob, lives off fresh air) and diet wise I have always treated her like she has EMS.  She is on my baldest field overnight and comes in first thing in the morning until at least 7pm.  Her day hay is soaked, but she barely touches hay in the day as she is the least greedy pony you'll ever meet.

The vet mentioned starting her on metformin, which I am going to chase up next week.  

For my own peace of mind, I feel that I need to check her airways, just in case, but on that phone call last night,  I feel like a time waster.

I asked the other day whether a side effect of EMS could be an intolerance to work and severe blowing at work, consistent all year round, but didn't really get an answer.

I took pony for a hack last night and the blowing started the second we went into trot and once we were walking again it took her 5-10 minutes to stop stop making the noise.

Sorry for the essay, but I don't feel like I'm being listened to.


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## Goldenstar (13 May 2017)

Your horse needs scoping.
You are the owner and if you want it done it should be .
I would ring them on Monday and ask the vet to arrange it .
A scope she wears while she works would be the best option .
It's very hard when you feel you are not being taken seriously but keep plugging on .
And if her wind is ok and all you have is a fat lazy cob at least you will know you're not being unfair .


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## scats (13 May 2017)

Goldenstar said:



			Your horse needs scoping.
You are the owner and if you want it done it should be .
I would ring them on Monday and ask the vet to arrange it .
A scope she wears while she works would be the best option .
It's very hard when you feel you are not being taken seriously but keep plugging on .
And if her wind is ok and all you have is a fat lazy cob at least you will know you're not being unfair .
		
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Thanks Goldenstar.  Yes she will be having an overground endoscope and I will be riding her to try and replicate what we do at home.  I'm going to ring on Monday and book her in as soon as possible.

I have emailed the vet writing everything down- her workload and management, which can then be passed on to the hospital vet.  I started doubting myself last night and wondering if I didn't explain the situation correctly.  I hope to goodness that the scope doesn't find anything, but at least I will know then and I can stop having that nagging doubt in my mind everytime she starts making the noise.


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## Goldenstar (13 May 2017)

scats said:



			Thanks Goldenstar.  Yes she will be having an overground endoscope and I will be riding her to try and replicate what we do at home.  I'm going to ring on Monday and book her in as soon as possible.

I have emailed the vet writing everything down- her workload and management, which can then be passed on to the hospital vet.  I started doubting myself last night and wondering if I didn't explain the situation correctly.  I hope to goodness that the scope doesn't find anything, but at least I will know then and I can stop having that nagging doubt in my mind everytime she starts making the noise.
		
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Good , I hope it all goes well and will be very interested to hear what they find .


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## Ditchjumper2 (13 May 2017)

As the owner you will always know your horse best. Vets are good but they are not perfect.....sometimes they just can't / won't see what is there! A bit like drs really...will be interested to see what they find. Good luck x


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## SusieT (13 May 2017)

Possibly the vet is seeing what it there too..It's worht scoping definitely, but if she is an overweight horse and vet iscommenting on her weight I'd be reducing the food more!


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## scats (13 May 2017)

SusieT said:



			Possibly the vet is seeing what it there too..It's worht scoping definitely, but if she is an overweight horse and vet iscommenting on her weight I'd be reducing the food more!
		
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Apart from grazing on a bald field overnight, she is on a cup of lo cal Balancer.  She has a handful of soaked hay in the day but doesn't eat it, she's very fussy and not at all food oriented.

This was her this evening before she went out-






Picture shows her finally having a nibble on her hay, at 7.30pm. She spends most of the day snoozing.


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## Elf On A Shelf (13 May 2017)

Your pony should not behaving breathing issues with the workload she is doing unless there is a serious underlying issue. An overground scope will tell you enough to go on. It will tell you if the palate is displacing, if the vocal chords are collapsing or are paralised or if there is a blockage of any kind. Riding with an overground scope on is weird. You feel as though you can't ride as you are trying to keep the kit safe and not bang it about! 

Good Luck with her!

How does she neigh by the way? Does she sound normal?


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## fabbydo (13 May 2017)

Sorry to repeat if you have already done this but has she had a full allergy test?


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## scats (13 May 2017)

EKW said:



			Your pony should not behaving breathing issues with the workload she is doing unless there is a serious underlying issue. An overground scope will tell you enough to go on. It will tell you if the palate is displacing, if the vocal chords are collapsing or are paralised or if there is a blockage of any kind. Riding with an overground scope on is weird. You feel as though you can't ride as you are trying to keep the kit safe and not bang it about! 

Good Luck with her!

How does she neigh by the way? Does she sound normal?
		
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Thank you.  She has a funny little whinny- very distinctive and more breathy than noise (if that makes sense). Whereas my other horse does a distinct neigh, hers is a like a little 'chuff, chuff'.  I've never really thought much about that, or indeed been asked about it by the vet. 

I'm strangely curious about the overground scope, does the horse find it uncomfortable to have in while working?  It looks horrid!


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## scats (13 May 2017)

fabbydo said:



			Sorry to repeat if you have already done this but has she had a full allergy test?
		
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No she hasn't. This hasn't even been mentioned to me.  When I asked if it could be a form of COPD I was told highly unlikely as she doesn't cough.  It was never mentioned again. The only test they have wanted to do, aside from standard bloods, is an EMS test.


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## fabbydo (13 May 2017)

My cob was perfectly healthy for 10 years. She was fit and competing. She suddenly started breathing very much how you describe. She did not cough. Basically, she developed allergies to various things (3 page print out but mainly pollens) and exercise was causing her to have asthma attacks. It's worth investigating.


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## jnb (13 May 2017)

I know of an excellent vet who specialises in performance issues.....I can pm you details if you'd like? Not too far from you


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## scats (13 May 2017)

fabbydo said:



			My cob was perfectly healthy for 10 years. She was fit and competing. She suddenly started breathing very much how you describe. She did not cough. Basically, she developed allergies to various things (3 page print out but mainly pollens) and exercise was causing her to have asthma attacks. It's worth investigating.
		
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Did you manage to get your cobs breathing under control?  I'm tempted to get hold of a go pro and see if I can film the noise when I take her for a short trot or canter around the fields and post it on here to see what people think.  It is very, very loud.


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## scats (13 May 2017)

jnb said:



			I know of an excellent vet who specialises in performance issues.....I can pm you details if you'd like? Not too far from you
		
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Yes please!


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## Elf On A Shelf (13 May 2017)

scats said:



			Thank you.  She has a funny little whinny- very distinctive and more breathy than noise (if that makes sense). Whereas my other horse does a distinct neigh, hers is a like a little 'chuff, chuff'.  I've never really thought much about that, or indeed been asked about it by the vet. 

I'm strangely curious about the overground scope, does the horse find it uncomfortable to have in while working?  It looks horrid!
		
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Once in they get used to the scope pretty quickly. The hardest part is getting it in. Vets generally nose twitch for this part. 

If your mare more wheezes than neighs then I suspect there is a problem with the vocal chords which will severely limit how much air she can get into her. Same as a human that can't breath. No oxygen going in, your lungs can't function, your brain can't function, you feel as though you are suffocating. A human can stop when they please, they can tell those around them what is going on. A horse can't. They are too genuine and try to struggle on until us thicko humans realise there's actually an issue and not just a fat lazy horse. This will not be helping the PSSM. No oxygen going round the blood no lactic acid being moved. Lactic acid build up results in tying up.


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## fabbydo (13 May 2017)

Unfortunately not. We had to retire her last year as nothing keeps it under control. We thought we had cracked it with a vaccine made specifically for her but 2 weeks ago her breathing problems started again.
I would worry about riding something with a breathing problem. I know your vet told you to but it must be very uncomfortable for your mare. That's not a poke at you, without a clear support from your vet you sound a little lost. Hope you get it sorted. If it helps, Hattie Lawrence is my vet. Not in your area but she is a star.


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## scats (13 May 2017)

Fabbyo- I was booked in to do dressage this weekend but I've withdrawn.  I asked the vet if I should stop riding her until we know what's going on and he said no because she's fat, but I have opted to put her in much reduced work until I know what is going on.  She is doing 20 minute hacks around our farm, with some very short bursts of trot and canter but mostly walk.  I'm hoping to get her in this week for her scope.

Thanks for the support everybody.  I realise the vets are trying to raise awareness of things like EMS and obesity in horses, and I categorically agree that the pony needs to lose some weight, but that is so hard to do when I cannot work her properly without her being in obvious distress.


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## fabbydo (13 May 2017)

Good luck. Hope everything goes well for you. I know it's stressful but you have sort veterinary advice so have done the right thing.


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## chaps89 (13 May 2017)

Looking at the picture she looks well (lovely shine to her coat too!) But appears to be quite cresty? (Hard to tell with the angle of the photo/how she's twisting her neck for the hay) so I'd be looking at ems / cushings too possibly. I have a fat cob who puffs and doesn't seem to vet fitter too but most definitley not to the extent yours sounds like. I would push for the scope as it definitley isn't normal. Hope you get on ok when you call back on Monday.


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## racebuddy (13 May 2017)

Good luck have pm u xxx


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## scats (15 May 2017)

Bit of an update.  I emailed the vet over the weekend, outlining everything- what she does work wise, what i feed her and how she is managed.

Just had a chat on the phone with him.  He showed the hospital vet the video of her working, but it didn't pick up the noise very well so I imagine she did just look like a fat thing trotting around blowing a bit.  Anyway, he does understand my concerns so the referral is going through and I should get a date in the next few days (hopefully for next week at very latest) for her to go in and have the scope.  If it shows nothing, she will also have a tracheal wash.

He's still keen for her to stay in the same level of work until she comes in.  I'm having such a hard time getting to grips with that, as I feel absolutely dreadful when she starts making the noise, but I feel I need to do what they are telling me at this stage.  I am still going to keep her out of the school however, but I will make her do a bit of trot and canter work out hacking.

Collecting her metformin this afternoon also.

Thanks for the support everyone.  I'm in this weird place where I don't want to find anything on the scope, but part of me thinks, if we don't, what the hell is wrong with her?


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## fabbydo (15 May 2017)

Thanks for the update. Nothing to add apart from sending a virtual hug!


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## racebuddy (15 May 2017)

Fingers crossed you get a date soon xxxx


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## SO1 (15 May 2017)

I would say either allergy or pain.  If she is on a restricted diet is she getting enough forage to prevent ulcers?

You don't mention if your vet has given you ventipulmin or not to try and see if that helps.


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## scats (16 May 2017)

SO1 said:



			I would say either allergy or pain.  If she is on a restricted diet is she getting enough forage to prevent ulcers?

You don't mention if your vet has given you ventipulmin or not to try and see if that helps.
		
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We've not tried ventipulmin yet.  I assume the vet wants more info before we do.

She doesn't display any other ulcer-like symptoms i.e. Is not girthy in the slightest, doesn't react to having sides touched.  She's on a restricted diet but she plays a part in this herself as she's just not greedy.  Her net of soaked day hay always has some left over, she just has very little interest in food and always has (besides grass).

Interestingly she's had a slightly runny nose the last few days, but this might be completely unrelated, as she's never had this before.


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## 9tails (16 May 2017)

Your vet isn't taking you at all seriously.  He's most likely thinking you're an over worried owner of a slightly out of breath tubby pony.   It seems nothing has been done, no allergy testing or medication.  Get a proper video, showing her laboured breathing in trot and canter and get a second opinion.


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## scats (16 May 2017)

9tails said:



			Your vet isn't taking you at all seriously.  He's most likely thinking you're an over worried owner of a slightly out of breath tubby pony.   It seems nothing has been done, no allergy testing or medication.  Get a proper video, showing her laboured breathing in trot and canter and get a second opinion.
		
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Thank you, this is exactly how I felt, so I wrote them an email at the weekend, highlighting everything and stating that I felt I wasn't being taken seriously and I was extremely concerned about the pony.  Vet rang me yesterday and said he has taken it on board.  Now waiting for a date for her to go in, I have said I want it ASAP and they have said it will be no later than next week.

If I don't hear anything by the end of the day, I will chase them up.


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## racebuddy (16 May 2017)

Worth taking a video so you can show the vets xxx have pm u xxx


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## scats (16 May 2017)

She's going in a week on Friday.  Relieved to have a date.  Thank you for all the support again, and the PMs I've had, I really appreciate it.


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## Goldenstar (16 May 2017)

Good luck let us know how it goes .


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## fabbydo (26 May 2017)

Any news scats?


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## scats (26 May 2017)

Hi everyone, we went to hospital today and I was right.

She was diagnosed with a very rare condition of her trachea, likely to be partly congenital, partly defect (they don't really know) that means the whole length is narrowed.  Her over breathing to get air in causes the top to 'suck' in which further restricts her airway. At exercise, her pharynx shuts over and she doesn't get enough air in. 

It is evident both markedly at rest and worse during exercise. 

She had a tracheal and lung wash as there was also evidence of mild inflammation, awaiting results of those.

There is no cure. It is a condition occasionally seen in shetlands and miniatures, but usually just parts of the trachea. Hers is the whole way. 

They have said to continue exercise as she has EMS so needs to keep metabolism working, but reduce workload and expectations.  Light hacking may be our only option.  Unfortunately it will probably mean the end of any competitive career.  We are going to try and reduce her weight to see if it helps (she weighed 508 on bridge) 

I'm  absolutely devastated, but I knew there was something wrong. 

Vets were quite shocked by outcome.  I still think they thought I was panicking for no reason.


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## alibali (26 May 2017)

Sorry the news isn't great in so far as there is no treatment but well done for sticking to your guns and getting the correct diagnosis in the face of an uphill struggle with your vets. 

As you know yourself you do need to get some weight off her which as you've already pointed out won't be easy when you are restricted with what you can do exercise wise. It strikes me a track system would be perfect for her if you have the facility for this, it would encourage her to gently exercise herself whilst also restricting her grass, effectively killing two birds with one stone with minimal intervention from you after the initial set up!


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## fabbydo (26 May 2017)

Really sorry to hear your news. Well done for persevering. Sometimes professionals forget that the owner knows their horse best. Hope it reminded them of this for the future. 
I understand how you feel. Retiring  or not competing a horse any more  feels like you have lost a little part of them. 
Hope things brighten up for you soon.


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## scats (26 May 2017)

alibali said:



			Sorry the news isn't great in so far as there is no treatment but well done for sticking to your guns and getting the correct diagnosis in the face of an uphill struggle with your vets. 

As you know yourself you do need to get some weight off her which as you've already pointed out won't be easy when you are restricted with what you can do exercise wise. It strikes me a track system would be perfect for her if you have the facility for this, it would encourage her to gently exercise herself whilst also restricting her grass, effectively killing two birds with one stone with minimal intervention from you after the initial set up!
		
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Yes definitely. I have never denied she needs to lose weight and I will do my best.  They gave me a diet plan to follow but I actually already feed her less than they suggested andwith reduced exercise it's going to be even more of a struggle.  Other suggestion they had was to muzzle her on her bald field so basically can't eat anything at all overnight but is still out in the fresh air.  But I need a muzzle that won't further impede her breathing by covering her nostrils.


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## Leo Walker (26 May 2017)

Is she on Metformin?


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## scats (26 May 2017)

Leo Walker said:



			Is she on Metformin?
		
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Yes.


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## ycbm (26 May 2017)

I sorry about the result, but well done you for getting the answer. I hope your vet is feeling guilty. He was basically making you abuse an ill horse.  You've done a great job for her.


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## scats (27 May 2017)

ycbm said:



			I sorry about the result, but well done you for getting the answer. I hope your vet is feeling guilty. He was basically making you abuse an ill horse.  You've done a great job for her.
		
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Thanks ycbm.  I've had the most horrendous nights sleep, I just feel ill at the thought that I've been pushing her.  Even last year when I called them out about this, I was told that she needed more exercise as she was fat and unfit.  I tried to explain that I was trying but she wouldn't tolerate exercise but they told me to work on getting her fit.

As it turns out, underneath this condition, I have managed to get her very fit.  Her recovery rate after exercise was noted as being very rapid, which was one reason that they started to believe me yesterday when they realised this wasn't just an unfit pony not doing enough.

I know it's not at all helpful, but I keep thinking of all the times she was extremely blowy and fatigued and I asked for more because I'd been told she desperately needed to lose weight and obviously diet alone wasn't cutting it.


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## milliepops (27 May 2017)

sorry it isn't better news, but well done for pushing them on this - I hope at least it gives you some peace to know that you were right to trust your judgement.  She's a lucky horse to have you looking out for her.


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## Wheels (27 May 2017)

Well done for keeping going!  I find some vets can be very dismissive without looking at the whole picture!

You have answers now which is a good thing even if they are not the outcome you desired.


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## View (27 May 2017)

So sorry to hear this, but at least you now know that you were right.  I can't suggest anything beyond what others have, but will say well done for sticking to your guns.


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## PorkChop (27 May 2017)

Sorry to hear this, sad news, but at least you know.  If only they could talk.


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## SEL (27 May 2017)

You've had a cr@p week with your horses. Feeling v sad for you but at least you have answers.


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## scats (28 May 2017)

Thank you all, I've the through every emotion in the book in the last couple of days, but the tears spilled this morning.  Mostly because this pony has given me her all, despite the fact that she physically couldn't.  Everything I asked of her, she has tried to do and even when she couldn't, I felt that she so desperately wanted to.

She will return to light hacking and we will do as little or as much as she can cope with on a daily basis.  If she wants to have a little trot, then she will, but as soon as she wants to stop, we will.  I am aware that I desperately need to try and keep her weight down, which becomes much more difficult now that she can't do much work.

She is happy in herself, and although she has to work a little bit harder than normal horses to breathe, she does not heave or appear in any distress when at rest.  If she ever starts to look like she is, then I will know that the time has come.

In the last ten years, I have had to retire 4 horses under the age of 10 due to injury or illness.  I am truly devastated that this has happened again, and with something so rare, but it is what it is.


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## scats (31 May 2017)

Just a quick update- the lung and tracheal wash showed mild inflammation but they think this is due to the extra effort of breathing rather than any form of COPD, so at least we aren't dealing with that on top of the tracheal collapse.


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## SEL (31 May 2017)

scats said:



			Just a quick update- the lung and tracheal wash showed mild inflammation but they think this is due to the extra effort of breathing rather than any form of COPD, so at least we aren't dealing with that on top of the tracheal collapse.
		
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A tiny bit of good news! How much weight do they want her to lose?


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## scats (31 May 2017)

SEL said:



			A tiny bit of good news! How much weight do they want her to lose?
		
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They didn't actually say exactly, but said they would like her underweight if possible.  She was 508 and i imagine they want her at 400 or below but I just don't know how do-able that is when she's on a bald field overnight, picks at less than 1kg of soaked hay in the day (doesn't even eat it all) and can't do much more than walk.  I feel like I'm fighting a losing battle.
I'm working on trying to get her to 450 to start with anyway.


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## hopscotch bandit (31 May 2017)

scats said:



			They didn't actually say exactly, but said they would like her underweight if possible.  She was 508 and i imagine they want her at 400 or below but I just don't know how do-able that is when she's on a bald field overnight, picks at less than 1kg of soaked hay in the day (doesn't even eat it all) and can't do much more than walk.  I feel like I'm fighting a losing battle.
I'm working on trying to get her to 450 to start with anyway.
		
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 The problem being getting a horse to lose weight so dramatically without doing it to fast and causing problems like hyperlipemia. Feel for you, its not an easy task.


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## SEL (31 May 2017)

scats said:



			They didn't actually say exactly, but said they would like her underweight if possible.  She was 508 and i imagine they want her at 400 or below but I just don't know how do-able that is when she's on a bald field overnight, picks at less than 1kg of soaked hay in the day (doesn't even eat it all) and can't do much more than walk.  I feel like I'm fighting a losing battle.
I'm working on trying to get her to 450 to start with anyway.
		
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Also feeling for you. My PSSM mare definitely has the 'good doer' gene in abundance - came out of winter 60kg heavier because she was only in walk work. Even now she's doing an hour a day of trot and canter work I only seem to be maintaining her weight and her crest was solid this morning.

Are you adding magnesium? I know a couple of nutritionists who say they believe it helps with managing fat pads down. Alcar also has some followers who believe it helps fatties, but you might already be adding that for her muscles. 

Don't beat yourself up too much - we can both hope for a really cold winter to get our fatties using their blubber up! (or start a 'liposuction for horses' business.....)


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## 9tails (31 May 2017)

It's rather drastic, but would it be worth looking into a tracheotomy?


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## scats (31 May 2017)

Hopscotch- a previous EMS pony of mine developed hyperlipemia after colic surgery- he went on food strike and they couldn't get him to eat a thing.  Within 2 days he was in a critical condition.

SEL- she is on magnesium but trying to get supplements in her is a nightmare, she just doesn't eat.  She picks at her Balancer each night, I manage to get usually about 6 or 7 metformin down her twice a day (she should be on 10 twice a day) but she turns her nose up at everything.   She's very strange.

I'm sure the vets thought I was making it up when I said how fussy she is.  Then they saw her pick at a few bits of hay on Friday and leave the majority of it despite having not eaten for hours.

9tails- I'm not too sure about a tracheostomy, it was never mentioned.  Because he whole windpipe has collapsed, I don't know how successful it would be.


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