# agricultural land/change of use



## Deborahm (17 August 2011)

Do you know whether I'm ok to subdivide a field if its still got ag status? 

Were trying to buy a field. The seller isnt horsey but applied for change of use back in March I presume as they know that paddock land is worth more than ag land. Ive just heard from our lawyers that back at the end of June the sellers were told by the Planning dept that they didnt need change of use to graze horses, provided that there was not subdivision of the field to rent it out or structures on it. The Planning dept asked the sellers to withdraw the application for change of use.

 I do want to divide the land (for my own horses, not to rent it) and then we plan to put mobile shelters on it. Will we be ok if it's still ag land? I wanted to call the Planning guys to ask them if we can do this, but OH is worried that we'll bring it to their attention if we do so. I'd rather know the answer so I know if we'll be legal if we do so. 

Also it would help me negotiate on price, particularly as we've not signed a contract with the lawyers for the field yet and were paying top end paddock rates (approx £18 per acre) not ag rates for the land, even though its not got currently stock fencing or water etc. 

In fact, the land is looking very scruffy now as the owners usually get a local farmer to cut it and take silage off it, but this year that doesn't seem to have happened and they've allowed it to grow long and the thistles and ragwort have taken over. 

Are there Council tax or other benefits if we leave it as ag land?


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## jrp204 (17 August 2011)

You can subdivide agricultural land but you still may need pp for mobile field shelters, you would need to check with your PA. No council tax on land but there maybe business rates if it is not agricultural, you would need to get advice on this.


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## CazD (17 August 2011)

If you mean subdividing by fencing then you can do that, whatever the status of the land.  We have a paddock which still has agricultural status rather than equestrian use status. We paid £14.5K an acre ten years ago for it - the high price is because its a small parcel of land rather than anything to do with its status.  If you were buying 200 acres then the price per acre would be less than if you were only buying 4 acres.  Grazing of horses still counts as agricultural use in planning law, its only when you want to start riding on the land, putting up stables - oh and actually FEEDING the horses on the land - that it starts to count as something else.  Depending on your council, I wouldnt bother paying the planning fee for change of use.  We've grazed (and fed) our horses on our land for 10 years, the council also gave us PP for stables and a fixed field shelter without bothering to ask us to change the use of the land.

There are no tax benefits whether its ag or equestrian use (unless you rent it out, when you might get into business rates)

If I were you, I just go ahead, sub-divide it and use mobile shelters - you shouldnt have a problem.


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## Deborahm (17 August 2011)

CazD said:



			We paid £14.5K an acre ten years ago for it - the high price is because its a small parcel of land rather than anything to do with its status.
		
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Yes, I forgot to say that the field is 4 and a half acres. 

The field would really only be of interest to us, as we're looking to buy the only house in the vicinity. Access is via a 5 bar gate off a country lane at the very edge of a small hamlet. The plot is outside the planning envelope, so can't be developed. 

The hamlet is very horsey, but the land is at the very end of the village away from other houses. Personally I wouldn't fancy leading a horse up the lane to get to the field, as it's a cut through for commuters and is quite narrow and bendy. Anyone else though would need to lead their horses a short way up the lane (which has no pedestrian footpath) to access the land. No one has grazed horses on it yet, so I guess they would have asked by now if they were interested. The land immediately surrounding the field is all down to crops, so the field can't be joined to an existing paddock or accessed any other way except by us or the road. 

If we buy the house next door too (from the same owners) we could put the stables on the garden (and avoid PP?) and cut a way through to the field so I would be able to take my horses into it without going on the road.

I just want to make sure that a) we're not paying over the odds and b) that I can keep my horses on it in a practical and safe manner. We've always rented before and we're really looking for a place of our own where we can create decent facilities for the horses.


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## CazD (17 August 2011)

Deborahm said:



			Yes, I forgot to say that the field is 4 and a half acres. 

The field would really only be of interest to us, as we're looking to buy the only house in the vicinity. Access is via a 5 bar gate off a country lane at the very edge of a small hamlet. The plot is outside the planning envelope, so can't be developed. 

QUOTE]

Dont be so sure no one else would be interested if you live in a horsey area. Our paddock is outside the village envelope and in an AONB so no chance of ever developing it - we had to go to planning appeal to even get wooden stables!  We live over half a mile from the field, which is down a narrow lane and is marooned in the middle of another farmer's land poorly looked after land so, like  yours, cannot be joined to another paddock, garden or accessed at all apart from via the lane.  We had HUGE competition to get the paddock - and  upset a fair few people by being the highest bidders.

Can I just ask, if the lane is completely unsafe for you to lead or ride a horse down, are you always going to box somewhere to ride?
		
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## Orangehorse (17 August 2011)

As advised you don't need pp for grazing horses.  You may or may not get away with using mobile stables, but pp isn't such a big deal.  There are fields around here in the middle of nowhere with stables, barns and menage.  


How about a casual check with the council to see what their policy on horses/grazing is.  Our local council is generally accommodating, there is a minimum amount of land (but yours is 4 acres so that would be fine) and they don't want people putting stables and muck heaps next to neighbouring gardens, for obvious reasons.


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## BigRed (17 August 2011)

You will get the field a lot cheaper if you don't already own the house adjoining the field ! So if you feel confident about being able to buy this house, I'd go ahead and get that field !

if you want to put stables in the garden, you will need to have PP and if you are in an area of Outstanding natural beauty or a conservation area, that can be tricky.  I have put stables in my garden at my last 2 houses.


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## Marymary (17 August 2011)

You can put stables  up in the garden without planning permission they have to be within the curtilage (sp?) of the property my parents have done it previously, they did obtain a letter from our then local planning officer prior to going ahead. Am sure someone on here will know more about it. 

We spent 18 months fighting to get change of use from Agricultural to Equestrian and planning for my arena....I went through hell and wouldnt want anyone to go through what we did....We live on a farm 2 miles from the next nearest property ...the only vehicle that passes us on a daily basis is the postman..we are not in enviromentally protected area but what we did have were other equestrian minded people in the area ...5 miles away who did not want anyone who was competitive to move into the area ....I have learnt how 2 faced some horsey folk are and not to trust anyone....These people welcomed us and came to visit I dont think they realised we would see the objections. ........they have continued to be vile since and to cause as much mischief as possible,  my competition results speak for themselves so they have to be more careful now about what they say plus the council planning enforcement guy quickly realised that someone was waging a vendetta against us.

 They didnt want our farm they live in a rather large property themselves....No one wanted our farm it had been derelict for 3 years but they all still tried to stop our planning ...I even had a vile little man stop out our gate and tell me that he wouldnt rest until he had got rid of us....

We even had people in another county objecting as they thought the farm should be left derelict and for the wild flowers to grow.....seriously ....sadly no wild flowers but we did have one 10 acre field to rid of ragwort!

I would certainly keep all your plans to yourself and if you find people suddenly become friendly and asking questions only tell them what you want them to hear. 

You dont need planning permission for grazing horses but as soon as you feed them hard feed etc or ride them or ride in fields than that requires planning from what I remember.


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## Deborahm (19 August 2011)

QUOTE]

Can I just ask, if the lane is completely unsafe for you to lead or ride a horse down, are you always going to box somewhere to ride?[/QUOTE]

I think the lane will be ok to ride down and there's some permissive bridlesways on farm headland not too far away. Plus there's a large area of woodland behind the house which I'm hoping I can put a gate onto from the back of the garden to get immedate access onto. That's the main appeal of the location. There's a large livery way round the corner that does the same, which is why I'm guess the area has become so horsey.

I just wouldn't fancy leading a horse down the lane if a car came round the corner. The extra width of being alongside the horse and the lower level of control than being onboard the horse would worry me.


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## Deborahm (19 August 2011)

Oh dear MaryMary, that sounds horrible. Didn't realise people could be like that.

There's a blacksmith a couple of doors down who we've found out is friends with my longstanding instructor, so hopefully they won't be too nasty. Take your heed about keeping info to ourselves though, as at some point we'd like to enhance/replace the existing bungalow as it's not great (will prob be in 10 years time though as need to save up first!)


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## jrp204 (19 August 2011)

"Plus there's a large area of woodland behind the house which I'm hoping I can put a gate onto from the back of the garden to get immedate access onto. That's the main appeal of the location. "

Will you own this woodland?
Not sure if I was the owner of the woods that i would want to allow access, it can cause problems with rights of way etc.


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