# Feeling overwhelmed and frustrated with first horse



## Marilyn91 (26 January 2021)

So I bought a 4 year old Connemara pony mare sight-unseen (I know, I know...) from Ireland back in September.

She was sold to me as being green but very calm and sensible. The reason for sale was the owner's daughter had decided last minute to go to university. At the time, I was riding my trainer's 4 year old on a regular basis so I thought I could handle it. I later found out she had had a bad riding accident.

She became increasingly spooky and anxious. Not "dancing nervously around a plastic bag" kind of spooky but full-on panic bolting, mostly because of other horses. Example: I was riding in the indoor school, some other horses came in, she went beserk, bucked and bolted. I fell off and so did two other people. She did this again when trail riding. At this point, I stopped riding her and focused on groundwork. But even then she was very crazy-acting. She started cribbing in her stable. I was hand-grazing her in the woods behind the yard and she bucked in my face and bolted back to her stable. I'm not sure why as I didn't see anything that could have scared her. I guess she heard other horses in the distance.

I changed stable yards so she would have more turnout, and also because her stable was next to a stallion who was making her nervous and because I suspected the yard owner was feeding her oats. As soon we we got to the new yard, she calmed down a lot and I was finally able to do groundwork with her and make progress. After about two weeks, I tried to mount and she bolted. Even with someone else holding her, I was not able to get on.

We are waiting for saddle number three to come back from the saddler, since the first one was too long and the second (which was professionally fitted) was pressing on her spine and hurt her. I have had her back checked by a vet and treated by a chiropractor. We are now waiting for saddle number three to come back from the saddler.

It just always feels like two steps forward, two steps back. She was lunging perfectly off my voice commands, then suddenly she got into a habit of stopping, turning around, and rearing when you try to get her to go forward. I got an experienced instructor to nip the problem in the bud and I can lunge her again now, but it requires me to basically chase her the entire time, which isn't much fun for either of us. I think she's bored. The list of things we can do safely, while having fun, just seems to get smaller and smaller...

Her behaviour is a lot worse when I'm not there. For example, we were doing groundwork with a new trainer, I left the indoor arena to fetch something, came back and the trainer said that she went nuts and started rearing. I didn't see it and she behaved perfectly as soon I got back.

It's all becoming very stressful and expensive - I've had two vets out several times, three saddles (the third is now being adjusted for the second time), the chiropractor, she's had her teeth done and wolf teeth out, several farriers because two weren't very good and her hooves needed corrective treatment afterwards, I even changed yards to improve things for her...  Balancing all of this on top of a full-time job is so hard, I have no idea how people do it.

Today I handwalked her through the forest near the yard and she was on edge the whole time and was terrified when one horse walked past. No bolting or anything, so I guess that is an improvement but I'm just feeling so frustrated. Even though she is getting better, I just don't ever see her being the kind of easy-to-do horse I can get on and go for a nice relaxing hack on.

Sometimes I feel like giving up but she can be very kind and sweet. A lot of this is my fault, because the yard I initially put her in wasn't very good, I failed to spot that the professionally fitted saddle was hurting her and because she's my first horse I didn't know which vets, saddlers etc were good and which just take your money.

Will it get better as she gets older? I'm worried that it might get even worse as she gets stronger... Any ideas on what to try? Should I think about selling her?


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## ownedbyaconnie (26 January 2021)

Gosh sounds like a really stressful situation for you.  My first step would be stripping her of all feed (except maybe a balancer/handful of v low sugar chaff to get supplements in if required).  

I'd be worried that the bad experiences with saddle hurting her now make her associate pain with the saddle, when you lunge do you lunge with the saddle on?  If you don't maybe worth trying just so she gets used to it.  Did the people you bought her from mention how far they had got with her backing process?  

I would be tempted to send her away for professional schooling.  It sounds like she's had a few scares and you've had your confidence knocked and you're feeding off each others nervous energies.  A good experienced professional can give her the confidence and environment your mare needs to understand what is expected of her.  You say she is your first horse, have you loaned etc in the past? A 4 year old connie (notoriously stubborn and too clever for their own good!) is a big step for a first horse.


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## mini_b (26 January 2021)

Sorry you’re having problems  

How long have you had her?
How long had previously owners had her? - I would want to know more of her history if it wasn’t disclosed that someone had a serious accident on her. What else hasn’t been mentioned.


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## Pearlsasinger (26 January 2021)

I would strip the feed right back to nothing but hay/grass, no supplements, no treats except maybe grassnuts.  There is no point in blaming yourself except that you have learned from your mistakes.  And definitely get some professional help.


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## Marilyn91 (26 January 2021)

ownedbyaconnie said:



			Gosh sounds like a really stressful situation for you.  My first step would be stripping her of all feed (except maybe a balancer/handful of v low sugar chaff to get supplements in if required).
		
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She is on hay and a balancer. I also tried a calming supplement but that didn't seem to be doing much. At the old yard the stable hands sometimes fed her oats behind my back (not sure whether deliberate or a misunderstanding...) but that is all sorted now.



ownedbyaconnie said:



			I'd be worried that the bad experiences with saddle hurting her now make her associate pain with the saddle, when you lunge do you lunge with the saddle on?  If you don't maybe worth trying just so she gets used to it.  Did the people you bought her from mention how far they had got with her backing process?
		
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She was broken and riding well at her old place - walk, trot and canter in the school, lovely dressage paces. However, it was a very small, quiet country farm. I can also ride her safely in such a calm environment (empty school, very quiet hacking route), but as soon as other horses come near, she loses it. 

I have lunged and longreined with and without a saddle and it was fine - I guess it only hurt once the weight of the rider was added. She doesn't seem to mind wearing tack, just being ridden. I am also worried about her associating pain with the saddle and I'm considering riding her in the Barefoot ride-on pad physio support for a while as it is meant to be very comfortable for the horse. I don't fancy my chances in it if she plays up though...



ownedbyaconnie said:



			I would be tempted to send her away for professional schooling.  It sounds like she's had a few scares and you've had your confidence knocked and you're feeding off each others nervous energies.  A good experienced professional can give her the confidence and environment your mare needs to understand what is expected of her.  You say she is your first horse, have you loaned etc in the past? A 4 year old connie (notoriously stubborn and too clever for their own good!) is a big step for a first horse.
		
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I would consider sending her away for professional schooling, but she has had so much upheaval already and there is no one I trust enough. We have tried two trainers so far without much success.

I had two horses on part loan and when I was growing up my mum had three horses who I helped her with everyday and rode for about ten years. However, this is the first time I've been responsible for everything by myself with no support. So while I'm not a beginner, it certainly is a stretch.


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## Marilyn91 (26 January 2021)

mini barnes said:



			Sorry you’re having problems 

How long have you had her?
How long had previously owners had her? - I would want to know more of her history if it wasn’t disclosed that someone had a serious accident on her. What else hasn’t been mentioned.
		
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I have had her since September, so about 4 months now. Her previous owners had her for 2 months, they bought her from a dealer (they told me "from a friend" but I found the dealer on Instagram). I think she was there for a month or two. So last year alone she had at least four different homes


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## paddy555 (26 January 2021)

some 4yo's behave like 20 yo's and some really test and try it on.
I think the key is to finding out exactly what happened in the accident and what memories she has retained which you could well be unknowingly triggering.

You have a clever breed and you need to work out if she is simply taking advantage of you and being naughty  or if she really has a problem. 
I would long rein rather than lunge or ride. That way  you have more control and can see exactly how she is  behaving. 

However, at the end of the day, I would be asking if this is really the horse for you. If she is only 4 you could well have another 2 years of this. Whilst you may get there it is going to take a lot of time and you could well have to step up beyond your confidence levels. Confidence is fragile and it she bolts once too often you may well loose your confidence. That is the most serious mistake that you will make. 
You may have made mistakes but you will have learnt from them. 

From what you describe this mare may well do better in a much more experienced home and you may be happier (in the end) getting an older well trained horse that has been everywhere and done everything as your first horse. Having got more experience then a more difficult 4yo would be more suitable for your 2nd horse.


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## mini_b (26 January 2021)

Marilyn91 said:



			I have had her since September, so about 4 months now. Her previous owners had her for 2 months, they bought her from a dealer (they told me "from a friend" but I found the dealer on Instagram). I think she was there for a month or two. So last year alone she had at least four different homes 

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everyone has given you really good practical advice. I just wanted to add that she’s probably feeling a very stressed if she’s moved around a lot - which you know!

sounds like you’re trying your best - good luck x


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## muddybay (26 January 2021)

My six year old was the exact same when I first got him he would spin and spook getting me off twice in the first few months. He had been moved around a lot and a soon as he started to be more trusting of me he started behaving better. He still gets a bit tense and spooky but now I know how to deal with it so I ride less tense! I would recommend lots of lessons and poles keep her focusing on other things!


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## Pearlsasinger (26 January 2021)

I would stop the balancer, it might well have something in it that she reacts to.


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## Amymay (26 January 2021)

📣📣 Calling Michin 📣📣


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## PictusSweetDreams (26 January 2021)

I’d think about scoping for ulcers. Friend of mine had a mare very similar and this had come from Ireland, the journey seemed over could have been the cause but it’s not something you can really pinpoint. But it sounds like the moving around a bit from different homes could have stressed her and brought them on. 

I’d have a chat with your vet, even if she hasn’t got ulcers it’s an issue you can rule out.


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## Winters100 (26 January 2021)

Poor you. It is miserable when they just don't work out how you want.  You ask if it will get better as she ages, well yes, but only if she is educated by a confident and experienced owner / trainer during this time.  My honest advice would be to sell, either 'as is' to someone who wants a project (obviously with full disclosure), or send her to a trainer who can school her and sell her for you.  A 4 year old can be challenging even for experienced owners, but as a first horse it is, in my opinion, potentially quite dangerous.

Don't beat yourself up. Most long term owners have had at least one who just didn't work out, the important thing is to recognise if it is not a good fit and to take action.  If you sell you can look for a lovely made horse, probably 10 years + who has been there / done that, and then get on with just having fun and enjoying your hobby. 

I genuinely feel for you in this situation and wish you luck.


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## Marilyn91 (26 January 2021)

PictusSweetDreams said:



			I’d think about scoping for ulcers. Friend of mine had a mare very similar and this had come from Ireland, the journey seemed over could have been the cause but it’s not something you can really pinpoint. But it sounds like the moving around a bit from different homes could have stressed her and brought them on.

I’d have a chat with your vet, even if she hasn’t got ulcers it’s an issue you can rule out.
		
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Thanks for suggesting that, it has been on my mind for a while. I did have the vet out and discussed everything I could think of that could explain her behaviour, including ulcers. He gave her a quick check over but wasn't very thorough and just prescribed Sedaline to calm her down (which I've never given her). Maybe I should try another vet and actually get the stomach scoped for ulcers.


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## Elno (26 January 2021)

Oh my what a mess 😬

My best advice is if you want to keep her is to move her to a professional trainer and before you take her home again, make sure you ride her/get lessons at the trainers on her to gain back your confidence in each other. 

I'm sorry to be blunt, but 4 year olds as first horses is a really, really, REALLY bad idea! My four year old is mostly a darling, (sometimes I wonder if I was conned and actually bought a 24 year old😅) but if she was my first horse I would have ruined her in a months time. A 4 year old horse, especially a mare is a hormonal teenager with a brain of a toddler.


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## PictusSweetDreams (26 January 2021)

Marilyn91 said:



			Thanks for suggesting that, it has been on my mind for a while. I did have the vet out and discussed everything I could think of that could explain her behaviour, including ulcers. He gave her a quick check over but wasn't very thorough and just prescribed Sedaline to calm her down (which I've never given her). Maybe I should try another vet and actually get the stomach scoped for ulcers.
		
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I would definitely have a look into scoping her, ulcers are the cause of a lot of behavioural problems and are more common than we think


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## Goldenstar (26 January 2021)

She needs a work up from a vet experienced in problems with performance type work ups .


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## Upthecreek (26 January 2021)

Is she getting turnout in the company of other horses? If not that could be the cause of her extreme reactions when other horses are around. I’m afraid if you are inexperienced and buy a 4 year old you need to be prepared to spend a fortune on professional training if you want to produce a horse correctly. Otherwise it will be a case of struggling through problem after problem, which is not for everyone.


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## Tihamandturkey (26 January 2021)

In addition to all the suggestions above could you turn her away for a couple of months & restart her again (with an experienced person) in the Spring?


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## Marilyn91 (26 January 2021)

Upthecreek said:



			Is she getting turnout in the company of other horses? If not that could be the cause of her extreme reactions when other horses are around. I’m afraid if you are inexperienced and buy a 4 year old you need to be prepared to spend a fortune on professional training if you want to produce a horse correctly. Otherwise it will be a case of struggling through problem after problem, which is not for everyone.
		
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Yes she is turned out everyday with another 4 year old mare who she gets on great with. In the previous yard she was not getting enough turnout, which was definitely contributing to her crazy behaviour, and it's the main reason why I moved her. She is a lot calmer in general these days but still scared of large geldings / stallions.


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## be positive (27 January 2021)

PictusSweetDreams said:



			I would definitely have a look into scoping her, ulcers are the cause of a lot of behavioural problems and are more common than we think
		
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Cribbing, even if she is no longer doing it, is a definite sign of ulcers and would be my first thought as she has obviously been through a lot in the past 12 months, if she has them it could be the cause of most of her issues and her behaviour could change once they are treated, other than that I think you need to take a break and give you both a chance to settle, look for a decent trainer to come out to help you restart from scratch, taking on a 4 year old will nearly always bring challenges even for more experienced owners, the cost of regular lessons should be taken into account even with an older established horse, so get saving.


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## PictusSweetDreams (27 January 2021)

be positive said:



			Cribbing, even if she is no longer doing it, is a definite sign of ulcers and would be my first thought as she has obviously been through a lot in the past 12 months, if she has them it could be the cause of most of her issues and her behaviour could change once they are treated, other than that I think you need to take a break and give you both a chance to settle, look for a decent trainer to come out to help you restart from scratch, taking on a 4 year old will nearly always bring challenges even for more experienced owners, the cost of regular lessons should be taken into account even with an older established horse, so get saving.
		
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Ah I had missed the cribbing part! Definitely get her scoped then even if it’s to rule it out. Youngsters are always challenging but if you have the right support you can overcome the issues hopefully.


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## Marilyn91 (27 January 2021)

Tihama said:



			In addition to all the suggestions above could you turn her away for a couple of months & restart her again (with an experienced person) in the Spring?
		
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I have been considering this. The thing is, I haven't ridden her since November (no saddle) so I'm reluctant to give her any more time off. And since she has moved around so much already I'm reluctant to send her off anywhere else.



be positive said:



			Cribbing, even if she is no longer doing it, is a definite sign of ulcers and would be my first thought as she has obviously been through a lot in the past 12 months, if she has them it could be the cause of most of her issues and her behaviour could change once they are treated, other than that I think you need to take a break and give you both a chance to settle, look for a decent trainer to come out to help you restart from scratch, taking on a 4 year old will nearly always bring challenges even for more experienced owners, the cost of regular lessons should be taken into account even with an older established horse, so get saving.
		
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Thanks, I will get the vet to scope her stomach. The first vet I spoke to about ulcers seemed to think it was unlikely (he said it's not common in young horses) but I will get a second opinion because he wasn't very thorough. I haven't ridden her since November, just been doing groundwork, so she has had a break and I am hoping to restart her soon. We have a trainer who helps us once per week. I'm still deciding how to restart her, because on one hand she knows and trusts me more than the trainer and behaves much better for me, on the other hand they are obviously much more experienced.


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## Winters100 (27 January 2021)

Marilyn91 said:



			I have been considering this. The thing is, I haven't ridden her since November (no saddle) so I'm reluctant to give her any more time off. And since she has moved around so much already I'm reluctant to send her off anywhere else.



I haven't ridden her since November, just been doing groundwork, so she has had a break and I am hoping to restart her soon. We have a trainer who helps us once per week. I'm still deciding how to restart her, because on one hand she knows and trusts me more than the trainer and behaves much better for me, on the other hand they are obviously much more experienced.
		
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Please be very very careful if you start riding her.  A 4 year old who has time off and is still not behaving on the ground can be dangerous, especially for an inexperienced rider.  Speaking honestly she probably need to be ridden by a trainer first and to be in work with a strong and experienced rider 5 or 6 days a week for several months if you are to safely ride her.  I don't want to sound negative, but really you can get hurt, so I would think very carefully about whether this is the right horse for you. There is no shame in saying that you have made a mistake and moving her on to a home where she will be a better fit and will receive the education that she needs.


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## be positive (27 January 2021)

There is no reason a young horse will not get ulcers especially if they have gone through a few stressful experiences, an older horse usually gets them relating to physical issues causing pain, a younger one more likely stress related.

If the trainer is the right one your horse should trust them and behave for them, trust is important but so is respect, being given clear aids that the horse understands and the clarity that a pro should be more able to give in order to develop her education, it is what they do day in and day out so should have the skills required to bring her on that the owner will not have, it is the subtle signs that get missed and allow certain behaviour to come to the fore, if they can be dealt with quietly before they happen the horse will gain confidence and start to progress.
Funnily enough I had a similar conversation last night with the owner of a 4 year old connie that went through some of the same issues, her more experienced trainer did not have the same problems because they could just feel before it happened and stop it without even thinking, the pony in question is now generally much better but still has the odd moment on the ground which is frustrating but ridden he is becoming a star.


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## Marilyn91 (27 January 2021)

Winters100 said:



			Please be very very careful if you start riding her.  A 4 year old who has time off and is still not behaving on the ground can be dangerous, especially for an inexperienced rider.  Speaking honestly she probably need to be ridden by a trainer first and to be in work with a strong and experienced rider 5 or 6 days a week for several months if you are to safely ride her.  I don't want to sound negative, but really you can get hurt, so I would think very carefully about whether this is the right horse for you. There is no shame in saying that you have made a mistake and moving her on to a home where she will be a better fit and will receive the education that she needs.
		
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I definitely see what you're saying and I guess the safety aspect is why I'm asking for advice on here rather than just jumping on and hoping for the best. 

I have a trainer helping us once per week. I really like her and she's exactly what I was looking for in terms of skills (natural horsemanship, liberty dressage, centered riding....), but for some reason she and my mare don't seem to get on. My mare often hides behind me in lessons and when I left her alone with the trainer, she panicked and reared, and only calmed down when I got back. While the trainer is a better rider than me, if my horse doesn't like her, I'm wondering if her riding the horse will help or just instil bad habits.

A girl at the yard, who recently broke in a young stallion, has offered to restart her for me. I also have an experienced friend at the yard, who has owned 11 horses and started most of them herself from scratch, who has also offered to help. I could use the bond I have with my mare and do it myself with the help of my partner or the experienced friend. So a few options but really no idea what to do for the best. 

I'm reluctant to sell because she is a lovely mare and I do feel I've really bonded with her. She has had so many changes in her short life already so I'd rather offer her a bit of stability. She's a very sensitive soul so I worry that someone else would rush her or not treat her right. Also my partner adores her and says if I tried to sell her, he would just buy her  But there are certainly days where I think, what the hell am I doing this for, we are light years away from my goal of having fun doing everything from trail rides to dressage to cross-country courses....


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## Marilyn91 (27 January 2021)

be positive said:



			There is no reason a young horse will not get ulcers especially if they have gone through a few stressful experiences, an older horse usually gets them relating to physical issues causing pain, a younger one more likely stress related.
		
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Okay thanks, that's very good to know. The vet made it sound like ulcers are just something old race horses get. So I will definitely get a second opinion.



be positive said:



			If the trainer is the right one your horse should trust them and behave for them, trust is important but so is respect, being given clear aids that the horse understands and the clarity that a pro should be more able to give in order to develop her education, it is what they do day in and day out so should have the skills required to bring her on that the owner will not have, it is the subtle signs that get missed and allow certain behaviour to come to the fore, if they can be dealt with quietly before they happen the horse will gain confidence and start to progress..
		
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I agree that a pro who rides several horses a day, and who has backed more horses than I've had hot dinners, will have skills and muscles that I just don't have. However, we are already on trainer number 2. Trainer 1 was the yard owner at the previous livery yard. And my horse doesn't seem to get on with the current trainer (see  my reply to Winters100). So I'm unsure whether to stick with the current trainer, look for a new one again, or do it myself with help. 



be positive said:



			Funnily enough I had a similar conversation last night with the owner of a 4 year old connie that went through some of the same issues, her more experienced trainer did not have the same problems because they could just feel before it happened and stop it without even thinking, the pony in question is now generally much better but still has the odd moment on the ground which is frustrating but ridden he is becoming a star.
		
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Really? Well nice to know it's not just me.... Could you maybe elaborate on the issues and how they solved them?


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## jnb (27 January 2021)

Where are you - in the UK? I can very thoroughly recommend a superb trainer in Leics/Derbyshire who will work with the horse and then you BOTH together, at their yard & build confidence .
They're not stupidly expensive either but will long rein the horse all over their property - ditches, jumps, gallop tracks, through yard etc and gain confidence then restart her. 
Please consider this - I know you think upheaval won't be good but your mare sounds confused and distressed, and needs help.


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## be positive (27 January 2021)

If your mare is genuinely scared of the trainer then even if on paper she seems right you really need to find someone else to help you, in all my years of training I have generally found that the horses I work with look to me for support, rather than their owners, once I have started to work with them, I just use traditional sensible methods based on taking my time to get it right for the individual, if I could not gel with a horse for any reason then I either tried a different route or suggested they took the horse elsewhere, I would not want to work with one that showed fear of me and would not expect the owner to want me involved if it did.


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## Littlewills (27 January 2021)

Marilyn91 said:



			I could use the bond I have with my mare and do it myself with the help of my partner or the experienced friend.
		
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All the bonding in the world wont help if you get on this pony when shes not ready, and it doesnt sound like you quite have the experience to know when that would be.

I'd want a good vet out, one who listens and is prepared to do a proper work up. Remembered pain really isnt a thing, so if this horse is acting like shes in pain, she is.


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## Goldenstar (27 January 2021)

A bond is no substitute for experience when dealing with a young horse whose training to not progressing normally .


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## Pinkvboots (27 January 2021)

Before trying to ride again I would get a different vet and book a proper work up, there are some brilliant vets that will listen to all the issues you are having and then do all the necessary checks to rule out pain or get to the bottom of it.
Because of the severe reactions you are having I would lay money on the fact that some sort of pain is causing her to be this way.


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## The Fuzzy Furry (27 January 2021)

I'm very happy to recco a very experienced connemara person, but likely would depend on your location.  She's someone I trust,  who has produced many over the years and backed and reschooled a vast amount. She would insist on a clean bill of health from a vet, including scoping etc (as would any pro).


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## muddybay (27 January 2021)

Taking her to a schooling yard would be what I normally would suggest but it seems her problem comes from being moved around too much!


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## Marilyn91 (27 January 2021)

Thank you all for your suggestions. I will get her scoped for ulcers and think some more about how to restart her training.


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## LadyGascoyne (27 January 2021)

I have a naturally spirited and very clever 4yo - she’s nearly full Arab mare so you know the type. 

She’s actually just had 3 months off following moving to our new place. I’ve given her time to settle in specifically because I don’t want her to be reactive when I’m trying to teach her - and the weather wasn’t great either so it seemed like a good idea.

I’ve just started riding again and she’s picked it up like she’s never had a break. She also feels so much more balanced and mature.

Could you arrange to turn out 24/7, or at least as much as possible, and just let her unwind a bit? I basically gave mine a pat and some hay every day, and did feet when dry. Occasionally we’ve pottered out in hand but otherwise she’s had a holiday.


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