# How heavy is too heavy?



## Darkprincessh (2 June 2011)

Hi all, 

Just a general question really, but how heavy is too heavy?

I know it depends on the size of the horse, but how much do you all weigh and what size/breed do you ride?

H x


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## browbrow (2 June 2011)

Welsh d cross gypsy cob

13:3 mare

8 years old and ten inch of bone

5ft2 and 9stone 8 

She carries 13 stone no messing about- she's a power house!


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## Fallenrose (2 June 2011)

Something I read regarding hunter type horses said middleweights can carry up to 14 stone (for a days hunting) and heavyweights over 14 stone. But depends on so many things such as age of horse, amount of bone, if he/she is in good condition muscle wise, balance of rider and so on.


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## JenniferS (2 June 2011)

I am 5'5" and 8.5st (last time I weighed myself but I think I've lost more! ) and my horse is a 15hh Welsh Cob.


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## MaisieMooandCometToo (2 June 2011)

I'm 5ft, about 7.5 stone and ride a 13.3hh section D and a 15.1hh appy x cob.


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## Kadastorm (2 June 2011)

i;m 5'10 and 10st 5lbs and i used to own and ride a 13.2hh fell - although i was lighter then,
still now i ride 14hh connie ponies and a lil 14hh appaloosa. i have a 16.3 chunky TB which is nice as he takes up my leg.
its different for each horse and depends on the riders ability also. 
if you can ride, you are lighter in the saddle and not putting so much pressure on the horses back. but say you put a 14st novice on, they're going to be bouncing around everywhere arent they? 

It also depends on the horses condition, muscle tone, age etc


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## Stacey6897 (2 June 2011)

Depends on loads of things, standard of riding, fitness, age, build, confo and balance of horse, type of work being done, but as a general rule, I've always thought 20% of horses weight, so a 60kg person ideal on a 600kg horse, although you could go higher if you ride well and the horse is fit for the work


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## c2b (2 June 2011)

Pssst, 20% of 600kg is 120kg


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## Stacey6897 (4 June 2011)

c2b said:



			Pssst, 20% of 600kg is 120kg
		
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Haha, oh yeah!  Oops, what do you reckon the ratio should be?


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## PendleEquestrian (4 June 2011)

Hi, im 5ft8 and 12 stone, ive got a number of horse too embarrased to admit i collect them, but my shire x carries my fine , ive seen him carry upto 16 stone well, if the rider carries them self with tone in there muscles , what he really isnt keen on is large people who just wants to wobble for what of a better work, im a big beliver large people who ride well, in well fitting tack, are just as good as any rider! " think dead weight! or a pithed person is heavier ,lol, i thik though 16 stone would be my top limit ,and if god forbid i got heavier than i am now i think id give up or loose the weight,


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## soulfull (5 June 2011)

There are so many threads on weight and what a horse can carry.

Most of the time I think people are too 'PC' to be honest or we are not honest enough with ourselves

I am not a skinny person but truly believe that we often don't correctly consider the weight of rider enough!! we kid ourselves and each other

Some say 'In the old days even a small  horse would carry a 15st farmer hunting'  yes but he would be knackered by the time he was 12/13.

It is said 'oh I am ??st and for example my 15.2h TB carries me fine.  Horse may carry you fine for x amount of time BUT it WILL cause extra wear and tear on joints etc

Doctors regularly tell patients  lose weight and your knees/hips/back will be much better!!!!  and it often works

My view is anyone over 12st who wants a horse to be healthy for years and years needs to chose a horse very carefully, for both bone, breeding and conformation.  Obviously the more over 12st you are the more carefully you need to chose and take into account what you want to do with the horse


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## *hic* (5 June 2011)

*deleted*


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## Stacey6897 (8 June 2011)

No use asking me anyway, I'm a 10st weakling on a 17hh ID, I look like a pimple on a pigs bum


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## Wagtail (8 June 2011)

I am 5'9" and weight 9st 12. I ride most the horses on my yard. Smallest is a 13.3 hh welsh section D, largest is a 16.1hh warmblood. I wouldn't want to be any heavier for the smaller horses.


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## Wagtail (8 June 2011)

soulfull said:



			There are so many threads on weight and what a horse can carry.

Most of the time I think people are too 'PC' to be honest or we are not honest enough with ourselves

I am not a skinny person but truly believe that we often don't correctly consider the weight of rider enough!! we kid ourselves and each other

Some say 'In the old days even a small  horse would carry a 15st farmer hunting'  yes but he would be knackered by the time he was 12/13.

It is said 'oh I am ??st and for example my 15.2h TB carries me fine.  Horse may carry you fine for x amount of time BUT it WILL cause extra wear and tear on joints etc

Doctors regularly tell patients  lose weight and your knees/hips/back will be much better!!!!  and it often works

My view is anyone over 12st who wants a horse to be healthy for years and years needs to chose a horse very carefully, for both bone, breeding and conformation.  Obviously the more over 12st you are the more carefully you need to chose and take into account what you want to do with the horse
		
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I agree. We are far too PC about people being too heavy for their horses. I have been completely shocked and horrified by three photos I have seen of people on their horses on here. It is no good making people feel okay when really for their own health and that of their horses, they need a wake up call.


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## PapaFrita (8 June 2011)

soulfull said:



			There are so many threads on weight and what a horse can carry.

Most of the time I think people are too 'PC' to be honest or we are not honest enough with ourselves
		
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And I think that people underestimate dramatically what a horse CAN carry. A healthy horse can carry 20% of his/her own bodyweight. Of course an unfit, or bad rider, will be harder to carry. 



			Some say 'In the old days even a small  horse would carry a 15st farmer hunting'  yes but he would be knackered by the time he was 12/13.
		
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Horses were 'knackered' by all sorts of things; poor management, poor diet, poverty, lack of veterinary care, overwork (not necessarily from carrying too much weight) Horses THESE days suffer from all sorts of problems that were unheard of in the past; allergies, for a start and are sometimes 'knackered' by their loving owners who stuff them full of treats and let them eat all the grass they like so they're crippled by laminitis. 




			It is said 'oh I am ??st and for example my 15.2h TB carries me fine.  Horse may carry you fine for x amount of time BUT it WILL cause extra wear and tear on joints etc
		
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Any sort of work will cause extra wear and tear. As will allowing your horse to get too fat; a modern problem.


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## Elsbells (8 June 2011)

What about the horses that can run rings around their skinny mini riders and appear to have all sorts of ridden problems? Sometimes a bit of weight in the saddle is what's needed, hence that's why there are so many good and male riders about.


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## Trinity Fox (9 June 2011)

I totally agree with soulfull i am no skinny minnie but i keep check on my weight because i ride and dont expect my horses to be lugging around excess weight just because they can or are willing to.
And i think the references that are made to horses carrying all these farmers all day years ago doesnt really wash we are heavier now than we have ever been and  men dont do the manual work they used to do and our diets have changed for the worse making society heavier  in general than they were in the past.

I do think people kid themselves about what can be a comfortable weight for a horse to be carrying.

I would not want my horse to be carrying the very top end of what it is physically capable of i want it to carry me with ease.


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## Time Tells (9 June 2011)

I am a 4ft 10... 7stone midget and ride a 17.2hh stunning black blanket spot Appaloosa X cob. 

Just as well he is 200% safe, (even thou he rides like he is a 5 year old) coz at times I think he doesn't know I am there!  I know I am over horse'd, hence the search for a smaller one!


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## Janette (9 June 2011)

Putting a 12 stone weight limit out there, rules out a LOT of male riders.  Men tend to be taller, and have a higher muscle mass.  this equals more weight.  

A local riding school did this and found that they lost ALL of their male riders.  None of whom were actually fat.

I'm with PapaFrita.  How many hours a day do horses these days actually 'work'?  I require an hour a day of work from my mare through the week, and a bit more at the weekend.  
I'm built for comfort rather than speed, my pony's heritage was bred to carry 20 stone of dead weight as the Dales ponies did when carrying Pig Iron down from the Dales.  she is DalesxGypsy Cob so both are hard working, strong types.
She is not over worked, has extremely long rest periods    (22 hours out of 24)

Surely, the idea is to get the horse which is suitable for the the rider.  Incidentally, as I understand it, Shires are strong for pulling, but not always for carrying heavy riders.


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## MaisieMooandCometToo (9 June 2011)

Janette said:



			Putting a 12 stone weight limit out there, rules out a LOT of male riders.  Men tend to be taller, and have a higher muscle mass.  this equals more weight.
		
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Exactly!!! My dear father himself is 5ft11, as wide as a stick, incredibly fit but over 12 stone!!


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## benson21 (9 June 2011)

I am one of those larger people, I rode Benson,  a 16.2hh warmblood and I was over 
16st.  We hacked out, sj, dressage and xc and I can honestly say I never felt he was unhappy with my weight.  If he had shown any sign of discomfort I would of course stopped riding, but to feel him gallopping along the beach without a care in the world I knew he was fine.
But each to their own, I quite often see a huntsman in this area who is much much larger than me riding, and he certainly doesnt seem to be looked down upon, but being female, seemingly I am.


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## Ranyhyn (9 June 2011)

I weigh around 10-10.5stone, I'm 5'7 and I have a 16.2 ISH.

ETA as a 10.5stone fairly novice rider I am under no aspersions that I don't feel more heavy - I am also of the opinion a 14stone rider who rides really well, could possibly feel less of a burden than me!  I don't think it's as simple as weight and weight only being the factor..


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## firstponyMinto (9 June 2011)

I agree with Janette on this...
"Shires are strong for pulling, but not always for carrying heavy riders" 

the same goes for any of the heavier breeds...I think they were all bred for the plough & not for riding?


& I agree with Benson21 about it seems only the female riders are criticized for being "heavier" .....it's so not fair!!


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## Lady La La (9 June 2011)

I think I'm probably pushing it weight wise with my little tb at the moment..
.. I seem to have done a rather good job of piling on the pounds just in time for my wedding 
..To give you an idea, the pictures in my sig were taken a few days ago - Whilst I dont think I'm putting her in any discomfort, I do look a bit big on her and for these reasons I'll stick to light schooling and gentle hacks until I've lost a few


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## PapaFrita (9 June 2011)

Janette said:



			Putting a 12 stone weight limit out there, rules out a LOT of male riders.  Men tend to be taller, and have a higher muscle mass.  this equals more weight.
		
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A 12 stone weight limit is absurd; thoroughbreds, designed for speed, carry 12 stone over hurdles all the time. It's not the weight that 'knackers' them, it's the level of work. Most horses these days, bar serious competition horses, do barely enough work to keep them fit.




			I'm with PapaFrita.  How many hours a day do horses these days actually 'work'?  I require an hour a day of work from my mare through the week, and a bit more at the weekend.
		
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Exactly. Horses in the past worked 10-12 hour days, often on the streets. Even riding horses were required to draw carriages as well. Remember Black Beauty?


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## MrsElle (9 June 2011)

The weight issue is causing me some concern at the moment.  I am 14st and have a 14.1 Fell who is due to be backed shortly.  He is going to need regular work, albeit in small doses and although 4 years old isn't physically mature and muscled yet.

I feel it would be unfair of me to subject him to my weight when he is recently backed and learning.

Agree that a well balanced rider will ride much lighter, but on my youngster I am loathe to put my lardy weight on him 

There is no general weight of rider to height of horse ratio though, it depends on how the rider rides and what the fitness of the horse is, as well as its breeding.


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## Lady La La (9 June 2011)

PapaFrita said:



			Most horses these days, bar serious competition horses, do barely enough work to keep them fit.
		
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*Very* good point.


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## muddygreymare (9 June 2011)

I'm 5ft 6/7 and weigh about 7 1/2 stone and I ride my 15.3hh, 10yo IDxCob mare and I don't think she has a problem. But the smallest I have ridden was 12.2hh and she was happy with my weight also *not that i'm exactly heavy though haha*. 

I think it does depend on the weight of the rider but also as others have said HOW they ride as light and heavy people can be 'heavy' riders which is more uncomfortable for the horse etc.

I do think it depends on the individual horse and the individual rider. If they would feel comfortable riding a horse at the weight they are at and the horse can carry them happily then I don't see the problem, I only think that it is unfair on the horse if they are struggling to carry the weight of the rider + tack etc.


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## Elsbells (9 June 2011)

firstponyMinto said:



			I agree with Janette on this...
"Shires are strong for pulling, but not always for carrying heavy riders" 

the same goes for any of the heavier breeds...I think they were all bred for the plough & not for riding?


& I agree with Benson21 about it seems only the female riders are criticized for being "heavier" .....it's so not fair!!
		
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Very well said and so true!


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## bugbee717 (9 June 2011)

So my haffy was over 110 stone when I got him, 20 percent means he can carry 22 stone. He is now 75 stone so can carry 15 stone now. I had a lesson the other day on  him for an hour we pretty much trotted the whole   time, he was not even sweating  one bit, it was also very hot. I am  a balanced rider I am also 20  stone, I can run, I am very active having 3 kids working and 9 horses u have to be. We all view weight very differently, I don't look like the normal 20 stone person. I must add I would dream of getting on a fine tb.


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## Spins (9 June 2011)

When considering weight there's soooo much to take into consideration.. As regards to there being a 12stone limit for horse without considerable bone..I think that's insane..what about thickness of bone in ppl..you may think I'm crazy but I am built like a little 5'6 tank.. My hands and feet are bigger than my dads!!!! My wrists as thick as some of my more petite friends upper arms! When I am at my height of riding/fitness etc I weigh 13 stone I have no illusions as to my weight (i have piled on the pounds after a tough yr in college, slimming world here i come!!) but I would not consider myself too heavy to event my 16.2 tb and he's not a stocky tb.. So should I be limited to riding heavy weights and cobs??


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## ozpoz (9 June 2011)

I totally agree with Soulfull.

Force = mass x acceleration. ( Newton's 2nd Law, I think )
Add that to the possibility that the rider is slightly one sided, as most people are, and you are exerting quite a lot of force on a horse's back, ESPECIALLY at heavier weights.
And, if for some reason the horse and rider move in opposition to each other, which happens sometimes, then that force is magnified even more.

There are lots of people who don't want to know or think about this, unfortunately.


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## PonyIAmNotFood (9 June 2011)

Keep your horse fit and i doubt many would have problems carrying over 12st. At my rs there is no weight limit and the horses last, we have a 27 year old cob who carrys large weights and hasn't had a day lame in the 20 years he's worked there. These horses are kept very fit and healthy, hardly ever break a sweat and as a result can take the larger weights.


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## Mitchyden (9 June 2011)

I weigh 10st naked at the moment but am back on my diet as I'm normally 9 - 9st7lb.
My arab is only five and measures 14.3hh and carries me easily although i do feel guilty.

As an experiment I took my bathroom scales to the yard and weighed myself complete with body protector, hat, boots, chaps,  synthetic saddle, girth and stirrups. It came to a grand total of 12st5lb!! Now I feel really guilty although even if i lose half a stone she'll still be carrying almost 12st.


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## Captain Bridget (9 June 2011)

I am 5'8 and 8st12 ish, the horse I ride is a 16.2hh french trotter, he's got quite a long back and his owner said he works better over his back with me than he does for her, she is taller and heavier than me. I've ridden many horses, down to an 11.2hh stocky pony who happily galloped full pelt with me, but that was a few years back and I wouldn't want to do that now.


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## Wagtail (9 June 2011)

bugbee717 said:



			So my haffy was over 110 stone when I got him, 20 percent means he can carry 22 stone. He is now 75 stone so can carry 15 stone now. I had a lesson the other day on  him for an hour we pretty much trotted the whole   time, he was not even sweating  one bit, it was also very hot. I am  a balanced rider I am also 20  stone, I can run, I am very active having 3 kids working and 9 horses u have to be. We all view weight very differently, I don't look like the normal 20 stone person. I must add I would dream of getting on a fine tb.
		
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So was he 35 stone overweight or is he too thin now? You have to add 2 stone for tack too. I am sorry but man or woman, I think 20 stone is too heavy for any horse to be carrying.


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## bugbee717 (9 June 2011)

No he was very overweight, the weigh tape would not go round him at all, he was ridden a lot more then than he is now, but what I do had improved his fitness. Which is the way forward with both of us. I am honest about my weight, most people think I weigh a lot less. Which really shows what people know about weight.


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## BorgRae (9 June 2011)

The subject of weight does worry me I must admit. Especially when I read these threads, and hear that 12st is the limit. I am 12st9lb. I ride a 15.1hh sport horse X. He is a stocky boy and has big bones, and after asking my instructor if I was too heavy, she replied no. I am a good balanced rider, but do still worry.

I have a very broad back and thick set bones, and yes although I could drop a bit of fat, (I am currently dieting and god what I'd give for a piece of cake!! lol!) I'll still weigh heavy. 

My boy gets worked 4-5 times a week, for no more than 45 mins to an hour... So as someone else said, I guess that does mean he has 23 hours off a day


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## PonyIAmNotFood (9 June 2011)

The general thing on here appears to be that the heavier you are as a rider the less your horse should do which in my opinion is completely backwards!! The horse should do MORE than average to equip him for you, whether that's ridden once and lunged, hacked in hand, long reined etc. or ridden twice, once by you and once by a lighter rider so he's building up the muscle required to stay sound and fit for you. Once sound and fit it's very easy to keep them there yourself and I don't believe that horses equipped and prepared properly (which should be any ridden animal anyway, whatever your weight) should struggle or have long term issues with over 12st. The issue is plonking that weight on an unfit, unequipped anima, that's when you get long term damage and lameness.


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## xRobyn (9 June 2011)

Unless you are a woman under 5'4" then 12st is ridiculous imo!

Generalisations are difficult. If we're talking over 20st then no, I don't believe 'they' should ride, but I wouldn't have said at 12st you should start to think about your weight! Maybe 15st+ but a well built, fit, correct weight horse with good confo shouldn't struggle with a 12st rider IMO (but of course this is again a generalisation).

Should we at all ever try to generalise? Horses weight carrying ability OR rider weight limits.

I do always smile at people under 10st who comment, especially when riding something over the height of 14.2hh


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## Megibo (9 June 2011)

OP i ask this a lot....

i've got a tough overgrown Welsh C (she's a 13.3 D technically)

i'm 5ft 3

weigh 12 stone....

however, despite her being tough as old leather and carrying me without blinking, i AM doing something about my weight for my height because according to national statistics or whatever i shouldnt weigh over 10st 7.. i'm aiming to lose three stone.


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## PapaFrita (9 June 2011)

bugbee717 said:



			So my haffy was over 110 stone when I got him, 20 percent means he can carry 22 stone. He is now 75 stone so can carry 15 stone now.
		
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The 20% rule applies to the ideal weight, there are considerations like fitness and conformation as well, and of course some people ride light and others don't. A very overweight horse will already be carrying unnecessary weight, although the way it's distributed will be easier to carry than if localised in one spot in the form of a rider. 
Most native ponies are bred to carry HUGE weights in relation to their own size.


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## Hippona (9 June 2011)

5ft 5 and about 8 st10 right now.

I have a 15hh arab and a 13.3hh highland.

Neither buckle at the knee when I get on ....


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## Kirwil (9 June 2011)

I'm a bit nervous about exercising my brothers pony, he's 11.2 and I'm 5'6 and I reckon fully clothed plus a saddle it'd about 8 1/2 stone on his back. I've met the girl that backed him and she's a lot shorter than me, I think maybe the same weight but I didn't want to look rude and ask her. The last time I rode a Welsh A regularly I was about 5 1/2 stone soaking wet!  The child he's intended for is about 4 stone and will not be jumping just walked out on a lead rein, I'm thinking should I get other small people to exercise him to keep his fitness and skill level up and me just stick to schooling him from the ground? I don't want him to be uncomfortable.


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## Megibo (9 June 2011)

poppymoo said:



			5ft 5 and about 8 st10 right now.

I have a 15hh arab and a 13.3hh highland.

Neither buckle at the knee when I get on ....

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8st 10 is not alot, my 13.3 still manages to take off with me and not break a sweat i dread to think what she'd do if someone under 10stone got on! of course, i am aiming for 9 stone myself but i've seen her with light light riders and they have trouble holding onto the leetle madam


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## xRobyn (9 June 2011)

Kirwil said:



			I'm a bit nervous about exercising my brothers pony, he's 11.2 and I'm 5'6 and I reckon fully clothed plus a saddle it'd about 8 1/2 stone on his back. I've met the girl that backed him and she's a lot shorter than me, I think maybe the same weight but I didn't want to look rude and ask her. The last time I rode a Welsh A regularly I was about 5 1/2 stone soaking wet!  The child he's intended for is about 4 stone and will not be jumping just walked out on a lead rein, I'm thinking should I get other small people to exercise him to keep his fitness and skill level up and me just stick to schooling him from the ground? I don't want him to be uncomfortable.
		
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Do you have a photo? So long as he's fit and has good confo he should be fine with you!


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## welshcobabe (9 June 2011)

As a 5,1 rotund person my fresian x irish draught carries me very well it does cause amusment with my riding pals that my feet come just below the bottom of his saddle cloth but he was only supposed to be 15 hands but he grew and grew to a very solid just a smidge under 16 hands


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## ozpoz (9 June 2011)

As i said, people just don't want to know about being too heavy!!!!

Why is it so hard to recognize a horse moving freely, using his whole back and swinging along ? It simply doesn't manage this with an overweight rider on board.

Why don't people spend more time just watching how horses move??
Then they would understand why many professionals and private owners alike are careful about what they will ask their horses to carry.

Re. the 11.2 lead rein - no, it isn't a good idea to ride more than occasionally.


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## Wagtail (9 June 2011)

ozpoz said:



			As i said, people just don't want to know about being too heavy!!!!

Why is it so hard to recognize a horse moving freely, using his whole back and swinging along ? It simply doesn't manage this with an overweight rider on board.

Why don't people spend more time just watching how horses move??
Then they would understand why many professionals and private owners alike are careful about what they will ask their horses to carry.

Re. the 11.2 lead rein - no, it isn't a good idea to ride more than occasionally.
		
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Agreed. I think around one sixth of the horse's (ideal) weight is the best guide. But also people need to take into account, age, conformation, fitness and breed.


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## Wagtail (9 June 2011)

Tazhazzamoose said:



			OP i ask this a lot....

i've got a tough overgrown Welsh C (she's a 13.3 D technically)

i'm 5ft 3

weigh 12 stone....

however, despite her being tough as old leather and carrying me without blinking, i AM doing something about my weight for my height because according to national statistics or whatever i shouldnt weigh over 10st 7.. i'm aiming to lose three stone.
		
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It's not an easy thing to do. You must let us all know how you get on. Well done for making the decision. I remember going on endless diets in my late teens. It was so depressing! Mind you, once I started eating healthily I managed to keep the weight off and still fit in my size ten jods. Good luck!


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## Leah3horses (9 June 2011)

Is there still a fashion for people to be 'over horsed' size wise? A few years ago when I was last on here, there were lots of petite ladies with huge warmbloods? I'm in no way petite lol at 5ft 8 and 13 stone but my Sasha Tank is a Clyde cross of 650kg...but only 15.2, looks and ride much bigger because of her huge frame  I've ridden a 14.2 Dales who was a fab weight carrier. 

If you look at horses in America, paints,quarter horses etc, none are over 15hh and they aren't as big build as our natives..but they were bred to carry fully grown men all day, for weeks on end (cowboys). To some here they look under horsed, but I think it's our fashion to be over horsed.  Any UK strong native pony with decent bone above 13.2hh ish should be able to carry an adult easily. 

IMO 20% of the horses weight does apply to fine TBs etc..but not to our natives/IDs/heavies etc...I'd say more like 33% for them..remember their weight is evenly dispersed over 4 strong legs and they are capable of carrying much more weight than most here seem to think..look at Arabs for another example...Champion Endurance Arabs again carry fully grown men at speeds over 100km..I think the current world record holder horse is a little over 13.3hh, and not particularly chunky,just very good dense bone.

Don't think there would be many cases where you'd have to worry about top end weight with our natives, proportionate to height and build of the horse. In all reality, with respect, it's highly unlikely my horse would be expected to carry a 30 stone rider, which is what I'd say her high end rider weight would be


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## Megibo (9 June 2011)

Wagtail said:



			It's not an easy thing to do. You must let us all know how you get on. Well done for making the decision. I remember going on endless diets in my late teens. It was so depressing! Mind you, once I started eating healthily I managed to keep the weight off and still fit in my size ten jods. Good luck!
		
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Thanks Wagtail, i'm thinking by the time i've lost 42 pounds i'll be able to afford a treeless saddle! 
I'm moving into the yard (we rent a small private one) for two weeks so all i can do to entertain myself is the horses, exercise and dog walking! it'll be like army camp, LOL-and limited food of course. should be a good kickstart to losing weight...


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## Leah3horses (9 June 2011)

firstponyMinto said:



			I agree with Janette on this...
"Shires are strong for pulling, but not always for carrying heavy riders" 

the same goes for any of the heavier breeds...I think they were all bred for the plough & not for riding?


& I agree with Benson21 about it seems only the female riders are criticized for being "heavier" .....it's so not fair!!
		
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Erm and which horses were originally bred for riding???! They evolved to run free, not carry riders, we have hijacked them for that   I have always had heavy horses and heavy crosses...it is totally untrue that they are not riding horses.They are the hardiest, most versatile riding horse in my experienced opinion. Mine even jumps and everything 

 Humans didn't evolve to sit at computers all day every day but we do...with respect,please file 'heavy horses were bred for ploughing therefore don't make good riding horses' in the old wives tales section along with 'a dog should have a litter before being spayed' and 'your face will stay like that if the wind changes '!!


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## Leah3horses (9 June 2011)

Wagtail said:



			So was he 35 stone overweight or is he too thin now? You have to add 2 stone for tack too. I am sorry but man or woman, I think 20 stone is too heavy for any horse to be carrying. 

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That's rather a sweeping statement.my horse wouldn't even notice 20stone on her back . Haffies have got to be one of the stongest, toughest horses you can get...they evolved being a working horse, pulling and carrying huge loads up and down MOUNTAINS!! They have very dense, strong bone and a low centre of gravity. With respect please please think about what you are saying, (not you personally, everybody)as if you haven't got the experience or knowledge to back it up, it can come over as sheer ignorance.


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## firstponyMinto (9 June 2011)

Leah3horses said:



			Erm and which horses were originally bred for riding???! They evolved to run free, not carry riders, we have hijacked them for that   I have always had heavy horses and heavy crosses...it is totally untrue that they are not riding horses.They are the hardiest, most versatile riding horse in my experienced opinion. Mine even jumps and everything 

 Humans didn't evolve to sit at computers all day every day but we do...with respect,please file 'heavy horses were bred for ploughing therefore don't make good riding horses' in the old wives tales section along with 'a dog should have a litter before being spayed' and 'your face will stay like that if the wind changes '!!
		
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Ooooopsss.......sorry if I've offended you.......


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## Leah3horses (9 June 2011)

firstponyMinto said:



			Ooooopsss.......sorry if I've offended you.......
		
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 No, not at all offended, just trying to educate against old wives tales and share my experience and knowledge, which is part of being on this forum   People can have different opinions, doesn't mean if we don't agree we are offended   But I do think opinions should be based on facts or experience   Thank you for taking the time to post , but no apology needed


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## Kirwil (9 June 2011)

xRobyn said:



			Do you have a photo? So long as he's fit and has good confo he should be fine with you! 

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ozpoz said:



			As i said, people just don't want to know about being too heavy!!!!

Re. the 11.2 lead rein - no, it isn't a good idea to ride more than occasionally.
		
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He's not fit, he's fat and has only been very lightly schooled as young and been brought on steadily. I have found 3 children who want to ride, one of whom is a bit older and more experienced to go off lead rein. I can't put my brother on him until he understands he has to be peaceful around horses. I put my sister on him bareback today, she is just under 8 stone and he didn't behave any differently to when I took him out in the morning with no rider but it was just a stroll.

What would consititute occassional? Once or twice a month? Should I wait until he's fitter, using a small rider until then? I've seen so many people saying how natives are good weight carriers but his back is near enough level with my hips and I swear I'll crush him.


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## Janette (9 June 2011)

The point I was making, was that some people assume that because a horse is strong in one role, it can carry large weights.
However, It just occurred to me, that Shires were used in the early days for Knights in full armour, to fight and joust with.

I weigh considerably more than 12 stone.  My horse is 14.2.  Her heritage is Dales pony x with Gypsy cob.  She has 9" of flat dense bone.  She does not struggle one jot.  Her back is fine.  She has a touch of arthritis in one hock (she's 14) and I put that down to her tendency to lower her croup and piaffe/passage when stropping because we are not going as fast as she would like.

I think people under estimate a horse.  When a troop horse is stood for 8 hours on sentry duty, carrying a man in full ceremnial rig weighing in at around 20 stone (inc tack) do people worry about the weight it is carrying?  I think not.
HW hunters carry more than 14stone for a day, galloping and jumping over heavy, uneven ground.  So why aren't the 'anti's ' protesting against this aswell as the future of the fox?
Horses which race over jumps carry 12stone - at speed.

I have always been told that a native pony can carry 1 stone per hand of height, so you people who weigh 9stone dripping wet, and are worried about riding a Welsh Sec A.....   They were bred to carry shepherds up mountains, as were the Shetland Ponies.
Dales and Fells were Draught ponies, for carrying the iron and lead down from the Pennines.  Dales Ponies would carry the shepherds in winter, along with a bale of hay over the tops to the sheep. 

Wonder how much Oli Townsend weighs, and if he worries about doing courses like Badminton because of his weight and the effect on his horse?


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## ozpoz (9 June 2011)

You can easily work from the ground with a lead rein, if yuou don't feel right for him - he needs to learn to go by voice, to do his job, so lunging and long reining will get him fit without the worry of doing his back in. 
i realise not everyone feels this way , but to me, if the picture is wrong then there is something wrong - and I can't see 8i/2 stone on 11.2 lead rein and think it looks ok!

And the old "Arabian and fully grown man hundreds of miles easily thing" - yes, they are famous for having dense bone, and yes, the average Beduoin male is probably well under 12 stone


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## _MizElz_ (9 June 2011)

Didn't Hedgehunter win and then later get placed in the Grand National when carrying nearly twelve stone? Just a thought...

I have always fought with my weight; I have been thirteen stone or thereabouts for the last six years, and although I have been on the Slimfast diet since last July (having tried Weightwatchers, going to the gym, swimming etc), whilst I have not gained weight, I don't appear to have lost much either. I ride a 15.2 Arab x SF - so not chunky at all - but nobody has ever suggested that I am too big for her. Naturally, it has always been something that has worried me as I am conscious that my BMI is ridiculously high; however many people (my doctor included) have been shocked to find out how much I actually weigh. I'm no skinny mini to look at - I'm a size 12-14 (jodhpur size 30) in most clothes - but when I've seen other people on weight loss programmes who weigh the same as me, they tend to be quite a lot bigger to look at and several dress sizes larger...

As an aside - my family and I were on holiday in Cornwall a few years back, and Mum and I decided to take my brother (non horsey) for a beach ride. We were required to give our weights and heights when we booked in - Mum was 15 stone, I was 12.5 at the time (both of us 5'2) whilst my brother, at 5'9, weighed 11 stone. They brought the horses out for us, and it turned out they had given Mum and I two Shires, whilst my brother was on a very fine 14.1 pony; his feet were virtually dragging on the floor....

It seems we fell foul of a 12 stone and under rule...


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## Leah3horses (9 June 2011)

'And the old "Arabian and fully grown man hundreds of miles easily thing" - yes, they are famous for having dense bone, and yes, the average Beduoin male is probably well under 12 stone'

Who said anything about Bedouins? I was referring to modern day Arabs who carry modern day male riders, and win the harshest endurance races over 100km 

And, to refute your point about Arabs apparently carrying less than 12 stone, if you are right and Bedouins weigh less than 12 stone, which we can't generalise about but yes some will do...look at the footing...soft sand, the heaviest going a horse can probably have... will make a ten stone rider feel considerable heavier . Hence the need for Arabs to be incredibly strong for their size  and be able to carry full grown modern male riders all day


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## Trinity Fox (9 June 2011)

I did comment earlier in this post that many horses carry too much weight however i dont think there should be a 12 stone weight limit i think you have to take everything in to account bone size of horse rider fitness etc. 

It has been commented to look at well founded facts where exactly does the 20% rule actually come from, alot of horse are carrying well above this and these are the cases i think are carrying too much also 33% is suggested above really? 
I dont think any horse should be carrying a third of its body weight, strap a third of your body weight on your back and hump it around for a while and before you say humans werent designed to carry things around it has just been pointed out neither were horses we just decided to get them to carry us.

I dont think you have to be a stick to ride but you have to draw the line somewhere sensible.


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## Wagtail (9 June 2011)

Leah3horses said:



			Is there still a fashion for people to be 'over horsed' size wise? A few years ago when I was last on here, there were lots of petite ladies with huge warmbloods? I'm in no way petite lol at 5ft 8 and 13 stone but my Sasha Tank is a Clyde cross of 650kg...but only 15.2, looks and ride much bigger because of her huge frame  I've ridden a 14.2 Dales who was a fab weight carrier. 

If you look at horses in America, paints,quarter horses etc, none are over 15hh and they aren't as big build as our natives..but they were bred to carry fully grown men all day, for weeks on end (cowboys). To some here they look under horsed, but I think it's our fashion to be over horsed.  Any UK strong native pony with decent bone above 13.2hh ish should be able to carry an adult easily. 

IMO 20% of the horses weight does apply to fine TBs etc..but not to our natives/IDs/heavies etc...I'd say more like 33% for them..remember their weight is evenly dispersed over 4 strong legs and they are capable of carrying much more weight than most here seem to think..look at Arabs for another example...Champion Endurance Arabs again carry fully grown men at speeds over 100km..I think the current world record holder horse is a little over 13.3hh, and not particularly chunky,just very good dense bone.

Don't think there would be many cases where you'd have to worry about top end weight with our natives, proportionate to height and build of the horse. In all reality, with respect, it's highly unlikely my horse would be expected to carry a 30 stone rider, which is what I'd say her high end rider weight would be 

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 Yes, for around 20 seconds. That's ridiculous. I think we are talking about weight carrying ability for dressage, show jumping, eventing etc. Or even day to day hacking. Yes I'm sure my Tb would be CAPABLE of supporting 30 stone but not working under that weight. It's like weight lifters that can lift huge amounts, but only for a few seconds. A mare can take the weight of a stallion when she is covered. I tell you what. This thread is making me quite angry at what some people think their horses can cope with.


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## Leah3horses (9 June 2011)

ozpoz said:



			As i said, people just don't want to know about being too heavy!!!!

Why is it so hard to recognize a horse moving freely, using his whole back and swinging along ? It simply doesn't manage this with an overweight rider on board.

Why don't people spend more time just watching how horses move??
Then they would understand why many professionals and private owners alike are careful about what they will ask their horses to carry.
		
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Sorry to labour this point , but as the owner and a fan of true weight carriers, it seems you are generalising a tad too much...what professionals and private owners decide for their poss TB or Warmblood type Sports Horse re what weight they will carry, is of course, good horse welfare. However Ozpoz, with respect, you seem to draw a rather large thick black line through any horse being able to carry more than 12 stone. Which is plainly ridiculous. You may have personal distaste for what you call 'overweight' riders..and if somebody is definitely overweight for the particular horse they are riding then that would be painfully obvious, even to a layman, and should not be allowed to happen, for the horses welfare, obviously.  But your opinions about what weight individual horses are happily able to carry are incorrect...or are you thinking just of TBs here?? If you are generalising about all horses then I cordially invite you to visit my Clyde cross super heavyweight mare..who could happily carry me at 13 stone and you (at a guess  ) at 8 stone ish, and another 8 stone friend   Evidence vs opinion....evidence every time for me 

PS I have ridden at 9 stone, at 16 stone (both extremes due to life threatening illness and associated drugs) and at 5ft 8 and 13  (only a size 14)stone me and my beloved mare are just happy I am alive and healthy enough to hack out together.


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## Wagtail (9 June 2011)

Leah3horses said:



			That's rather a sweeping statement.my horse wouldn't even notice 20stone on her back . Haffies have got to be one of the stongest, toughest horses you can get...they evolved being a working horse, pulling and carrying huge loads up and down MOUNTAINS!! They have very dense, strong bone and a low centre of gravity. With respect please please think about what you are saying, (not you personally, everybody)as if you haven't got the experience or knowledge to back it up, it can come over as sheer ignorance.
		
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If you think a horse won't notice twenty stone then I think that it is you who are being ignorant. Just because they tolerate it doesn't mean it is not unkind to them. I think there are too many people making sweeping statements about how horse 'feel'. Just as other athletes have to keep fit and keep in shape, so should horse riders.


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## Leah3horses (9 June 2011)

Wagtail said:



 Yes, for around 20 seconds. That's ridiculous. I think we are talking about weight carrying ability for dressage, show jumping, eventing etc. Or even day to day hacking. Yes I'm sure my Tb would be CAPABLE of supporting 30 stone but not working under that weight. It's like weight lifters that can lift huge amounts, but only for a few seconds. A mare can take the weight of a stallion when she is covered. I tell you what. This thread is making me quite angry at what some people think their horses can cope with.

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How dare you imply that I would put my horse at risk?? Where does it say we are talking about sports horses? I thought this was a thread about HORSES in general.My horse is not a weedy TB for gods sake!!! Who ever said a TB could take 30 stone????!!!!! How ridiculous.

 She is a super heavyweight Clyde x who weighs 700kg and has 12 inch bone!!! This thread is making me very angry at the ignorance and generalisation on this forum.  My beloved horse would NEVER be expected to carry 30 stone, even though I know she could as she has hunted with a 22 stone rider , very easily!!!Please re read and do not assume and insult people due to your ignorance


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## Elsbells (9 June 2011)

There are some people who seem to think horses shouldn't have to work at all.

I'm fat and fifty and tonight my mare galloped and straight from walk to canter, across an open field with my mass on her back, several times. 

She had jogged her way up there knowing where we were going. It's a massive field, but could I pull her up? Well only just! We would of jumped a ditch if she'd ben allowed to!

I called it a day before she wanted to, so we then jogged home. 

This poor mare is a 16h SFx who came to me in a lot of pain because she had been hammered in her jumping life by some featherlight kid going hell for leather every weekend with her. 

She's now fit and well and ridden almost every day by me for at least and hour and half. She is very
happy and has a wonderful life.

Tomorrow we are on a 12 mile hack. So would you say I'm being cruel?


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## Wagtail (9 June 2011)

Leah3horses said:



			How dare you imply that I would put my horse at risk?? Where does it say we are talking about sports horses? I thought this was a thread about HORSES in general.My horse is not a weedy TB for gods sake!!! Who ever said a TB could take 30 stone????!!!!! How ridiculous.

 She is a super heavyweight Clyde x who weighs 700kg and has 12 inch bone!!! This thread is making me very angry at the ignorance and generalisation on this forum.  My beloved horse would NEVER be expected to carry 30 stone, even though I know she could as she has hunted with a 22 stone rider , very easily!!!Please re read and do not assume and insult people due to your ignorance
		
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You said that your horse's high rider weight would be 30 stone. That i what I quoted. I said that even my TB could stand 30 stone for a small amount of time to illustrate what a ridiculous statement you made. There are too many people like you making people feel okay about subjecting their horses to more weight than is good for them. I make no apology for that as I am looking out for the horses' welfare.


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## Leah3horses (9 June 2011)

Well said Els Bells, your horse sounds wonderfully happy and a free spirit.


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## Elsbells (9 June 2011)

Leah3horses said:



			Well said Els Bells, your horse sounds wonderfully happy and a free spirit.
		
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Thankyou, I think so and what you have said makes a lot of sensible good sense


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## Wagtail (9 June 2011)

elsbells said:



			There are some people who seem to think horses shouldn't have to work at all.

I'm fat and fifty and tonight my mare galloped and straight from walk to canter, across an open field with my mass on her back, several times. 

She had jogged her way up there knowing where we were going. It's a massive field, but could I pull her up? Well only just! We would of jumped a ditch if she'd ben allowed to!

I called it a day before she wanted to, so we then jogged home. 

This poor mare is a 16h SFx who came to me in a lot of pain because she had been hammered in her jumping life by some featherlight kid going hell for leather every weekend with her. 

She's now fit and well and ridden almost every day by me for at least and hour and half. She is very
happy and has a wonderful life.

Tomorrow we are on a 12 mile hack. So would you say I'm being cruel?
		
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I have no idea what you weigh or how you ride, so I cannot say whether or not your horse should be carrying you. I would not say that you sound like a cruel person though, no.


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## Charliepony (9 June 2011)

9 Stone (put on a stone in 2 months, eughh) 

16.2hh (and growing it seems) WB youngster and two tbs, 15.2hh and 15.3hh, one is 8 years old and the other is 14. I feel too big on anything under 15hh, but I'm pretty tall (5'10) so that's the main reason. I wouldn't buy anything for myself under 15.2hh unless it was a heffalump (strong native breed) and I had fallen in love with it. (though can't see that happening, I'm hooked on ex racers!!)

To be honest if I ever felt I was too big for my horse, I would either lose weight or sell him and get a bigger/sturdier one. Even if the horse could 'technically' carry my weight, but it was something that constantly worried me, I would do something about it.


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## Onyxia (9 June 2011)

Wagtail said:



			You said that your horse's high rider weight would be 30 stone. That i what I quoted. I said that even my TB could stand 30 stone for a small amount of time to illustrate what a ridiculous statement you made. There are too many people like you making people feel okay about subjecting their horses to more weight than is good for them. I make no apology for that as I am looking out for the horses' welfare.
		
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Not quite honest though,is it? 



From Leah3horses :



			Don't think there would be many cases where you'd have to worry about top end weight with our natives, proportionate to height and build of the horse. In all reality, with respect, it's highly unlikely my horse would be expected to carry a 30 stone rider, which is what I'd say her high end rider weight would be
		
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And your responce :



			Yes, for around 20 seconds. That's ridiculous. I think we are talking about weight carrying ability for dressage, show jumping, eventing etc. Or even day to day hacking. Yes I'm sure my Tb would be CAPABLE of supporting 30 stone but not working under that weight. It's like weight lifters that can lift huge amounts, but only for a few seconds. A mare can take the weight of a stallion when she is covered. I tell you what. This thread is making me quite angry at what some people think their horses can cope with.
		
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L3H was talking about a sturdy native,bred to carry dead stags down form the hills and your responce was about _your_ TB.
L3H is IMO correct- for most well put together larger native ponies,the rider would be unable to mount long before their weight was a problem for the pony to carry!


Wagtail you are fixated on the idea of a TB sports horse,I assume thats because thats what you won and do with it,but the TB is not a precious flower about to keel over- it is a  breed which ,as stated earlier in the thread DO regulary jump at the gallop with 12 stone on top.
 I have know a fair few out of racing,the ones with problems had poor conformation at the root of it,the sound ones were well put together- the breeding,not the work caused issues in those that had them.

I do not for one moment think it is OK to ballon up without thought for your horse,we owe it to them to stay as fit and slim as we can without putting our own health at risk,but we also need to remember that horses can not only do much more then is asked of most,but thrive on the extra work.


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## Elsbells (9 June 2011)

Wagtail said:



			I have no idea what you weigh or how you ride, so I cannot say whether or not your horse should be carrying you. I would not say that you sound like a cruel person though, no.
		
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Whoops! Sorry wagtail, this was no directed at you, but perhaps my confidence? This is an emotive subject I'm afaid, but entertaining for the viewer.

I'm 13.6 stone and I know I need to loose some/lot

I like to think I ride light and she feels like I am, comments are often made about her forwardness

However, I don't jump her although she would love me too and I always take care of her before my own ego.


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## Wagtail (9 June 2011)

elsbells said:



			Whoops! Sorry wagtail, this was no directed at you, but perhaps my confidence? This is an emotive subject I'm afaid, but entertaining for the viewer.

I'm 13.6 stone and I know I need to loose some/lot

I like to think I ride light and she feels like I am, comments are often made about her forwardness

However, I don't jump her although she would love me too and I always take care of her before my own ego.
		
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Sounds like you are fine  And certainly not cruel.


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## Wagtail (9 June 2011)

Yunalesca said:



			Not quite honest though,is it? 



From Leah3horses :


And your responce :


L3H was talking about a sturdy native,bred to carry dead stags down form the hills and your responce was about _your_ TB.
L3H is IMO correct- for most well put together larger native ponies,the rider would be unable to mount long before their weight was a problem for the pony to carry!


Wagtail you are fixated on the idea of a TB sports horse,I assume thats because thats what you won and do with it,but the TB is not a precious flower about to keel over- it is a  breed which ,as stated earlier in the thread DO regulary jump at the gallop with 12 stone on top.
 I have know a fair few out of racing,the ones with problems had poor conformation at the root of it,the sound ones were well put together- the breeding,not the work caused issues in those that had them.

I do not for one moment think it is OK to ballon up without thought for your horse,we owe it to them to stay as fit and slim as we can without putting our own health at risk,but we also need to remember that horses can not only do much more then is asked of most,but thrive on the extra work.
		
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30 stone i too heavy for any horse and certainly even a heavy horse should not be hunting all day with 22 stone plus tack. That is my opinion. I think it is irresponsible to encourage people who should be losing weight (for their own health and the comfort of their horses) that they are fine. Of course they should not be insulting or unkind, but to actively encourage someting that could be dangerous to their health, is cruel IMO.


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## marmalade76 (9 June 2011)

I am 5' and weigh between 9 and a half and 10st.

I ride a 14.2 native (not quite sure which, either connie, welsh or NF) x TB.

Personally, I think being over-weight has a detrimental effect on your ability to ride, regardless of what that weight may be. When I was getting on for 11st (post baby), which isn't heavy for someone of normal height but is for someone of 5', I simply could not ride as well as I could when lighter.


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## Leah3horses (9 June 2011)

Yunalesca said:



			Not quite honest though,is it? 



From Leah3horses :


And your responce :


L3H was talking about a sturdy native,bred to carry dead stags down form the hills and your responce was about _your_ TB.
L3H is IMO correct- for most well put together larger native ponies,the rider would be unable to mount long before their weight was a problem for the pony to carry!


Wagtail you are fixated on the idea of a TB sports horse,I assume thats because thats what you won and do with it,but the TB is not a precious flower about to keel over- it is a  breed which ,as stated earlier in the thread DO regulary jump at the gallop with 12 stone on top.
 I have know a fair few out of racing,the ones with problems had poor conformation at the root of it,the sound ones were well put together- the breeding,not the work caused issues in those that had them.

I do not for one moment think it is OK to ballon up without thought for your horse,we owe it to them to stay as fit and slim as we can without putting our own health at risk,but we also need to remember that horses can not only do much more then is asked of most,but thrive on the extra work.
		
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Well said Yunalesca...I went off the deep end due to that person mis quoting and putting words into my mouth I never actually said, and then accusing me that my horses welfare is compromised based on her made up argument!...I think anybody would be absolutely furious with that kind of statment.Thank you for reading my post properly, and your sensible input..just to clarify, my horse is a 15.3 Clydesdale cross, with 12 inch bone and a massive muscular frame. I have a 6ft 4 friend who weighs 22 stone,he is muscular and a good rider. My horse loves him and actually goes better from him even than me, as she loves jumping and I'm not really a jumper.  That is how strong she is...she weighs over 700kg and as a proportion 30 stone is only 30% of her body weight, and in my experience I'd say around 33% is the highest weight a good strong heavy horse can carry...incidentally...33% is also how the Argentinian ranchers work out which horse carries which cowboy all day long. And I'm pretty sure some polo ponies carry over 33% of their bodyweight 

Hope that has opened a few eyes to the reality of what a good, extra- strong horse with stamina and fitness can happily carry


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## Onyxia (9 June 2011)

Wagtail said:



			30 stone i too heavy for any horse and certainly even a heavy horse should not be hunting all day with 22 stone plus tack. That is my opinion. I think it is irresponsible to encourage people who should be losing weight (for their own health and the comfort of their horses) that they are fine. Of course they should not be insulting or unkind, but to actively encourage someting that could be dangerous to their health, is cruel IMO.
		
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Are you missing the point on purpose? Plenty on here prefere a barney to a debate....

L3H said the horse _could_ carry up to 30 stone in her opinion. I do not know the horse,_you_ do not know the horse, she does.I more then likely is a good old fashioned tank of a hose that will carry anyone.

She went on to say (IIRC) that she could not think of any time the horse would be asked to carry what it is capable of.

I also know my brothers did carry 30% of their body weight out running in the caddets- they all had to complete a 10k run with a 5 stone pack on their back in no more then 5 mins over their unladen time- brother has no joint of back damage


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## Leah3horses (9 June 2011)

Wagtail said:



			I have a 17.2 hh ID that weighs 750kg and he was obviously uncomfortable when an 18 stone rider came to try him for a share. I run a livery yard and have owned and trained horses for 30 years. I can recognise the signs of a horse not being comfortable. Maybe you need to take a closer look. Also, I don't know why you have locked in on me for your insults and shouting as I have said that 30 stone is too heavy and others have said 12 stone should be the limit. I actually think it should be around 16 - 18 stone for very heavy horses.
		
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Yawn are you still flogging your dead horse (scuse the pun) . Doh a 17.2hh ID is not going to have anywhere near the carrying potential of a shorter, 15.3 true heavy horse weighing the same. Obviously.  Next?


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## Wagtail (9 June 2011)

Yunalesca said:



			Are you missing the point on purpose? Plenty on here prefere a barney to a debate....

L3H said the horse _could_ carry up to 30 stone in her opinion. I do not know the horse,_you_ do not know the horse, she does.I more then likely is a good old fashioned tank of a hose that will carry anyone.

She went on to say (IIRC) that she could not think of any time the horse would be asked to carry what it is capable of.

I also know my brothers did carry 30% of their body weight out running in the caddets- they all had to complete a 10k run with a 5 stone pack on their back in no more then 5 mins over their unladen time- brother has no joint of back damage 

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But she thinks its okay for a horse to do a full days hunting with 22 stone plus tack on its back. I don't think it's okay. I am not missing the point. I am just shocked at what some people expect of their horses. We will have to agree to differ.


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## Wagtail (9 June 2011)

Leah3horses said:



			Yawn are you still flogging your dead horse (scuse the pun) . Doh a 17.2hh ID is not going to have anywhere near the carrying potential of a shorter, 15.3 true heavy horse weighing the same. Obviously.  Next?
		
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I think you expect too much. But that is simply my opinion and there is no need to have got so shouty and insulting. I think you are wrong. You think I am wrong. No need for the name calling.


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## Onyxia (9 June 2011)

Wagtail said:



			But she thinks its okay for a horse to do a full days hunting with 22 stone plus tack on its back. I don't think it's okay. I am not missing the point. I am just shocked at what some people expect of their horses. We will have to agree to differ.
		
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I think there are horses out there who could cope with it,provided the rider was made up of muscle not fat.
Time will tell,the horse will either retire sound or it will not- but many over the years have carried large weights daily without ill effect.


ETA,as I said before I do belive we as riders owe it to our horses to stay as fit and slim as we can without adversly affecting our own health.
I am not "pro" dumping fatties on tiny ponies,neither am I pro anyone over 12 stone be forbidden to ride anything.


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## Leah3horses (9 June 2011)

Wagtail, you can think what you want, of course. But to put it in print and accuse somebody of being cruel to their horse blah blah blah when you have proved several times now you are only interested in your own (wrong) opinions is foolish and ignorant.

Is your ego really so big that you refuse to accept fact? If you think a 17.2hh ID is a true weight carrying heavy horse, you are compounding your obvious ignorance in public. Again.

As Yunalesca and I have already pointed out to you,several times. You are ignoring and twisting what I say about my own horse, and saying she is not cared for properly, or even worse, you are saying her welfare is poor. When you know absolutely nothing, your own narrow experience is nothing to quote on this subject.  Your silly statement that a heavy horse should carry only 16 to 18 stones is saying they can only carry 15% of their bodyweight. You are becoming a laughing stock. Please stop coming out with absolutely ridiculous ignorant statements.

Yunalesca is spot on when she says my horse is a good old fashioned tank of a horse who will carry anybody. Now what are you going to come up with next, are you really so pig headed??? I feel sad for you, wasting so much time trying to prove something, But when something is wrong, it's wrong. Deal with it. What you say is totally wrong on the subject of MY HORSE!!!!!


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## Onyxia (10 June 2011)

Leah3horses said:



			Yunalesca is spot on when she says my horse is a good old fashioned tank of a horse who will carry anybody. Now what are you going to come up with next, are you really so pig headed??? I feel sad for you, wasting so much time trying to prove something, But when something is wrong, it's wrong. Deal with it. What you say is totally wrong on the subject of MY HORSE!!!!! 

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Bugger,I am Sheffield- perhaps it wil be that we all abuse them while scoffing pies in Yorksire?


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## Leah3horses (10 June 2011)

The difference is, when I realise I am wrong or have insulted somebody and their horse, which I'd never do,as an adult I would take full responsibility for spouting off.

I don't think you are wrong. I know you are wrong. Yunalesca thinks you are wrong. My horse definitely knows you are wrong. My 22 stone friend who takes my horse hunting knows you are wrong.  All you have is your own ignorant opinion. It's wrong. Sorry and all that but your ignorance is still glaring through this entire thread. You do not listen to evidence but just keep plowing on..jeez...get a life


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## Leah3horses (10 June 2011)

Yunalesca said:



			Bugger,I am Sheffield- perhaps it wil be that we all abuse them while scoffing pies in Yorksire? 

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Lol yes, of course, we are all 30 stone pie eating very novice riders , new to horses,who all ride skinny TBs everywhere, make them go hunting and everything when we haven't got a clue what we are on about  Must get the firemen out again to hoist me out of bed onto my weedy horsey, playing polo today you know


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## YorksG (10 June 2011)

Among our lot are included a 16.3 IDxHannoverian and a 16hh Ardennes type. The Ardennes type has such a large barrel that we cannot get the weight tape to even give us a weight! The nearest approximation we can make is 800kg (our farrier guesses at 3/4 of a ton, when she leans on him!) The taller mare is about 575Kg. The Ardennes type is very short in the back, the IDx is very long. The Ardennes has the thickest legs on a horse that I have ever seen, the taller IDx has nowhere near as much bone. For anyone to suggest that the weight limit for either of these horses should be 12 stone is ludicrous. Good grief my 15.3 araby type Appy would cope well with 12 stones, even with her stick legs! (She actually gets to carry 5'6" 9stone rider). I agree with the poster above who believes that if the person can bend well enough to get on the Ardennes type then she could carry them, with no welfare issues at all. This would not be the case for longer backed ID.


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## ozpoz (10 June 2011)

hmm , this would be hilarious if the result of too heavy a rider didn't result in PAIN. 

Pain is the consequence of long term cumulative load carrying wearing down joints.

It's a welfare issue that many prefer to shut their eyes to, because they cannot or will not bother to recognize it. It is easy to spot lameness in one front leg but I've seen amazingly high numbers of riders who just don't recognize hind leg, or back lameness.

Very, very sad.

 I am not one who believes in a 12 st weight limit, just to put the record straight. And I do not believe a horse will stay sound carrying 22stone either.
Nor do I think it is ok to ask it to.


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## YorksG (10 June 2011)

So what arbitary weight limit would you set ozpoz?


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## ozpoz (10 June 2011)

Sorry, i can't suggest a hard and fast rule, too many factors to build in and I am no good at maths. I know what limits i would set for my horses though.
I just go by the picture, in an old fashioned way, and watch how the horse moves.


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## YorksG (10 June 2011)

I agree with your method of deciding the weight limit for the horse in front of you, hence my post about our horses, so why decide that NO horse can carry 22 stones?


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## Onyxia (10 June 2011)

ozpoz said:



			hmm , this would be hilarious if the result of too heavy a rider didn't result in PAIN. 

Pain is the consequence of long term cumulative load carrying wearing down joints.
		
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Would you also like to impose a limit of 12 stone? Genuine question BTW.
I think need to take the whole picture into account rather then a blanket bann of anyone over XX weight.
If you can mount,there is something out there that can carry you without getting hurt.
Above a certain weight,no human is going o be able to ride even if they wanted to,so really don't think most horses are going to be tested.

I also find it quite amusing that an earlier poster mentioned her horse was 35 stone over weight when she bought it and not a single eyelid was batted- no one would put a 35 stone rider on a horse,yet an extra permanant 35 stone was OK......


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## ozpoz (10 June 2011)

YorksG said:



			I agree with your method of deciding the weight limit for the horse in front of you, hence my post about our horses, so why decide that NO horse can carry 22 stones?
		
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Honestly?  Because it makes me wince!

I think they can "carry" it - I don't think we should ask them to because I don't think a horses gait should alter when it carries a rider.


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## ozpoz (10 June 2011)

YorksG said:



			I agree with your method of deciding the weight limit for the horse in front of you, hence my post about our horses, so why decide that NO horse can carry 22 stones?[/QUOTE
 deleted because I wrote this already - think I should sleep instead!  : )
		
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## Arabelle (10 June 2011)

I don't think any _person _should carry 22 stone, let alone then put it on a horse.

These threads always get so emotive and I always end up thinking: if people are so sensitive and worried about their weight, why not address that issue rather than shouting down people who are, after all, just expressing a concern for the horses welfare?

If you know you are seriously overweight, you can yell, humph and convince yourself that your weight is fine for your horse, but you cannot stop people from _thinking _it looks terrible and cruel to the horse.


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## Wagtail (10 June 2011)

YorksG said:



			Among our lot are included a 16.3 IDxHannoverian and a 16hh Ardennes type. The Ardennes type has such a large barrel that we cannot get the weight tape to even give us a weight! The nearest approximation we can make is 800kg (our farrier guesses at 3/4 of a ton, when she leans on him!) The taller mare is about 575Kg. The Ardennes type is very short in the back, the IDx is very long. The Ardennes has the thickest legs on a horse that I have ever seen, the taller IDx has nowhere near as much bone. For anyone to suggest that the weight limit for either of these horses should be 12 stone is ludicrous. Good grief my 15.3 araby type Appy would cope well with 12 stones, even with her stick legs! (She actually gets to carry 5'6" 9stone rider). I agree with the poster above who believes that if the person can bend well enough to get on the Ardennes type then she could carry them, with no welfare issues at all. This would not be the case for longer backed ID.
		
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My ID is built like a shire, and hs a short back. His legs are the same length as thedepth of his chest.


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## Wagtail (10 June 2011)

Leah3horses said:



			Wagtail, you can think what you want, of course. But to put it in print and accuse somebody of being cruel to their horse blah blah blah when you have proved several times now you are only interested in your own (wrong) opinions is foolish and ignorant.

Is your ego really so big that you refuse to accept fact? If you think a 17.2hh ID is a true weight carrying heavy horse, you are compounding your obvious ignorance in public. Again.

As Yunalesca and I have already pointed out to you,several times. You are ignoring and twisting what I say about my own horse, and saying she is not cared for properly, or even worse, you are saying her welfare is poor. When you know absolutely nothing, your own narrow experience is nothing to quote on this subject.  Your silly statement that a heavy horse should carry only 16 to 18 stones is saying they can only carry 15% of their bodyweight. You are becoming a laughing stock. Please stop coming out with absolutely ridiculous ignorant statements.

Yunalesca is spot on when she says my horse is a good old fashioned tank of a horse who will carry anybody. Now what are you going to come up with next, are you really so pig headed??? I feel sad for you, wasting so much time trying to prove something, But when something is wrong, it's wrong. Deal with it. What you say is totally wrong on the subject of MY HORSE!!!!! 

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It is a shame that you do not appear to be able to sustain a reasoned argument without hurling personal insults. I wonder why you feel the need to get so nasty and hope that you reserve this treatment for people on the internet and not those in real life or your horses.

It is pointless trying to win an argument by calling people ignorant and pig headed, living on this forum etc. It smacks of someone who is unable to control themselves. 

I think you are wrong, you think I am wrong, lets leave it at that shall we?


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## Wagtail (10 June 2011)

Arabelle said:



			I don't think any _person _should carry 22 stone, let alone then put it on a horse.

These threads always get so emotive and I always end up thinking: if people are so sensitive and worried about their weight, why not address that issue rather than shouting down people who are, after all, just expressing a concern for the horses welfare?

If you know you are seriously overweight, you can yell, humph and convince yourself that your weight is fine for your horse, but you cannot stop people from _thinking _it looks terrible and cruel to the horse.
		
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I think you have hit the nail on the head there, Arabelle.


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## soulfull (10 June 2011)

ozpoz said:



			hmm , this would be hilarious if the result of too heavy a rider didn't result in PAIN. 

Pain is the consequence of long term cumulative load carrying wearing down joints.

It's a welfare issue that many prefer to shut their eyes to, because they cannot or will not bother to recognize it. It is easy to spot lameness in one front leg but I've seen amazingly high numbers of riders who just don't recognize hind leg, or back lameness.

Very, very sad.

 I am not one who believes in a 12 st weight limit, just to put the record straight. And I do not believe a horse will stay sound carrying 22stone either.
Nor do I think it is ok to ask it to.
		
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Totally agree



Arabelle said:



			I don't think any _person _should carry 22 stone, let alone then put it on a horse.

These threads always get so emotive and I always end up thinking: if people are so sensitive and worried about their weight, why not address that issue rather than shouting down people who are, after all, just expressing a concern for the horses welfare?

If you know you are seriously overweight, you can yell, humph and convince yourself that your weight is fine for your horse, but you cannot stop people from _thinking _it looks terrible and cruel to the horse.
		
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Well said


Like I said earlier I am not a light weight and with over 25yrs on steroids for RA I never will be.  I weigh about 12st 2  and have done for many years.  I have tried to lose it but it just doesn't happen no matter how strict I am

However if I weighed more than 13st I would not be riding my 16h WB until I got rid of it!

Often horses will manage a one off carrying someone but IT WILL take its toll on joints etc if regular


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## Fallenrose (10 June 2011)

I was helping when some people from my RS went on an indurance ride. When trotted up for the vet one of the horses was unsound, and the YO decided that the bloke (at 12.5 stone) who should have ridden that horse was to ride one of the ponies instead - a 13.3hh light/middle weight.  It was a very fit pony, used to doing this sort of thing with a lighter rider.

 I was mortified but vets didn't have a problem with it and after the 20 mile ride the pony passed the vetting - heart and breathing rate were fine.

 It's not a decision I would have made but the pony actually managed fine as a one off!


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## BSJAlove (10 June 2011)

im 8.10st and ride a 12.2hh NF. i have two sharers, one 9.5stone and one 9.7stone who ride my 12.2hh. 

but id like to see anyone tell me hes not struggling with the weight. he is so full of beans, he moves well and he enjoys his job. the min he looks like hes struggling, ill stop it. oh and did i forget to mention hes just turned 5 years old? and i backed him, im 5ft4 and look way to tall for him but we sure as hell are not to heavy. my vet said he would carry at least 10stone happily. and this is his limit. im so cruel.


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## Annagain (10 June 2011)

I think it really is a matter of horses for courses, and while weight/height ratios can be a useful guide, they are just that and shouldn't be taken as gospel. 

My 2 are fairly similar, Archie's a 16.2 IDx something weighing about 650kg while Monty's a 17hh 50%ID, 25% Welsh, 25%TB weighing closer to 700kg. They're both 15, and relatively fit - ridden 4 or 5 times a week, with a mixture of hacking, schooling, local competitions etc 

Archie has feet like dishplates, legs like tree trunks, a big deep, wide, chest and a short back, while Monty has a Welsh head, TB neck, legs and feet (damn those TB feet!), an ID body and (huge) backside and a long back. (He's built like a Trivial Pursuit wedge, getting wider and wider as he goes back!) 

At 11.5 stone, weight isn't really an issue, but if did have to put a heavy rider on one of them, I'd put him/her on A who despite being shorter and lighter than M would definitely carry more weight. In fact, maybe a bit more weight would make him easier to stop! Maybe I should stop watching my weight in a bid to find brakes?


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## TheEquineOak (10 June 2011)

Arabelle said:



			I don't think any _person _should carry 22 stone, let alone then put it on a horse.

These threads always get so emotive and I always end up thinking: if people are so sensitive and worried about their weight, why not address that issue rather than shouting down people who are, after all, just expressing a concern for the horses welfare?

If you know you are seriously overweight, you can yell, humph and convince yourself that your weight is fine for your horse, but you cannot stop people from _*thinking* _it looks terrible and cruel to the horse.
		
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I dont comment on the 'am I too fat for my horse' threads but I competely agree with what has been said here.

A 22stone rider plus tack will always make my wince.  That's just my opinion


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## YorksG (10 June 2011)

With regard to people arguing for heavier weight riders, because they are overweight and have an issue with it, I am the 9stone 5'6" rider I mentioned in an earlier post, so do not fit in that catagory. My ex weighed 15 stone, was 6'2" and a rugby player, NOT overweight. He rode our then Clydie mare, if it did shorten her life she was due to hit the record books, as she was estimated to be in her late 30's ear;y 40's when she was pts as a result of a failing heart, no joint issues at all.


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## Wagtail (10 June 2011)

YorksG said:



			With regard to people arguing for heavier weight riders, because they are overweight and have an issue with it, I am the 9stone 5'6" rider I mentioned in an earlier post, so do not fit in that catagory. My ex weighed 15 stone, was 6'2" and a rugby player, NOT overweight. He rode our then Clydie mare, if it did shorten her life she was due to hit the record books, as she was estimated to be in her late 30's ear;y 40's when she was pts as a result of a failing heart, no joint issues at all.
		
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I hardly think a fit 15 stone person riding a Clydsdale is the sort of thing people have a problem with. My 14 stone husband used to ride my 15.3 hh welsh section d x warmblood and she had no problems. However, I would not like him to have ridden her regularly, as I feel it would have been too much. That is why we got our 17.2 hh ID who, I have just measured with a weight tape at 870 kg.  But when an 18 stone lady came to try him, you could tell he was unhappy carrying that much weight. We found a 12 stone sharer instead.


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## Megibo (10 June 2011)

Wagtail said:



			I think it is irresponsible to encourage people who should be losing weight (for their own health and the comfort of their horses) that they are fine. Of course they should not be insulting or unkind, but to actively encourage someting that could be dangerous to their health, is cruel IMO.
		
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i'm staying indifferent to the argument going on about 20st people etc etc 

however i think wagtail has a point with this. she does think (i believe) that i should lose weight for the benefit of my pony. and it was said in a nice way! now she didnt tell me outright, i'd already made the choice, but she was polite in her wording of it. 
if it's a stone perhand with natives then my welsh can carry 14 stone. and indeed with me weighing 12s to 12st 7 she has no troubles or worries she can go all day with me and still be a plonker if she so wished. i could quite happily go on riding her at my weight however that would cause more issues with her saddle, she cant have a bigger one to accomodate my bum and i dont think she should have to. therefore i'm looking at different saddle options and losing three stone so either way she'll be comfortable under saddle and with me riding her. she's a tough little 'just get on with it type' and due to this the saddle had been pushing on her back without my knowledge. i thought she'd be the type to complain but she had infact just been putting up and shutting up. as soon as i found out i've got the back woman out to check and am looking at options so i can ride her again. i've also always thought that, now she is 12 (and not old by any standard) as she gets older she wont want to have to carry heavy weight all the time and i do believe she'll 'last longer' with me three stone lighter and could go well into her late teens.

however that's just my opinion and my current situation etc


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## chessy (10 June 2011)

I'm 5'7" and 11 and a half stone, though you wouldn't think so to look at me, I've always considered myself to be "slim" but got quite a bit of leg and arm muscle.

My horse is 15.1 suspected Ardennes x, great weight bearer, could take much heavier than me!


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## Damnation (10 June 2011)

I am not light. At all 
But my last little 15.2tb with not alot of bone carried me fine. Infact I was the only person who could get her forwards and round. 
A 9stone good rider got on her and couldn't get her to move!
My current 16.2 KWPN has no issue with my weight or riding. Infact she buggers off with everyone else, I am the only one who can get her to stop running and go softly into a nice rhythm and outline..

ETA: I am NOT 20 stone! Far from it. I am also a light balanced rider.
I think that with correctly fitting tack, and a good light seat and hand you can make yourself feel lighter to the horse.
I do agree that some people just take the complete pee by being over 18 stone plus thinking that is acceptable!


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## Chloe..x (10 June 2011)

This thread has annoyed me quite a lot and the sheer naivety of some people on here is shocking. 
I think that people are far too PC about weight limits and that it should be a more controlled factor when it comes to riding. Personally, I agree with Wagtail in the fact that a horse should never be made to carry 20stone+, just because he "appears" to be okay with it. Why should any horse be put under the strain of it and its obviously gonna cause serious long term effects. 
I think the idea of putting heavyweight on horses is cruel and on parallel with unjust suffering. 

I'm around the 10 and a half stone mark and have a 16.2 DW and a 15.2 ISH and certainly would not put anymore than 12stone on their back, why put them through anymore stress and unnecessary strain? Barbaric.


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## BSJAlove (10 June 2011)

Chloe..x said:



			I'm around the 10 and a half stone mark and have a 16.2 DW and a 15.2 ISH and certainly would not put anymore than 12stone on their back, why put them through anymore stress and unnecessary strain? Barbaric.
		
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one of the masters rides around here on a 16hh ISH type and hes huge. horse moves well. looks well. is extreamly fit and is more then coping. 

IMO horses are strong animals. by no means would i put 20 stone on anything. but you can also go ''too much the other way''.


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## aimsymc (10 June 2011)

I agree with you bsjalove.
I weigh around 11.4 stone most of the time and until 2 weeks ago rode my 16 hh tb mare who unfortunately i had to pts. i must admit i was always considering my weight thinkin if i was too heavy. I have just purchased this week a 16.2 dutch x ish mare who i feel is perfectly able to carry more than me! I must admit i find the thought of any horse carryin 20 stone horrendous! In my younger days i was told by vendor i was to heavy to buy his horse, it was a 16.2 tb and i was 9.7 stone, yes really! x


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## jenki13 (10 June 2011)

Chloe..x said:



			This thread has annoyed me quite a lot and the sheer naivety of some people on here is shocking. 
I think that people are far too PC about weight limits and that it should be a more controlled factor when it comes to riding. Personally, I agree with Wagtail in the fact that a horse should never be made to carry 20stone+, just because he "appears" to be okay with it. Why should any horse be put under the strain of it and its obviously gonna cause serious long term effects. 
I think the idea of putting heavyweight on horses is cruel and on parallel with unjust suffering. 

I'm around the 10 and a half stone mark and have a 16.2 DW and a 15.2 ISH and certainly would not put anymore than 12stone on their back, why put them through anymore stress and unnecessary strain? Barbaric.
		
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But including your tack you are probably putting 12.5 stone on their backs already. You wouldn't let William F-P / Oli townend & the likes on them if you got the chance because I'll bet you that they weigh more than 12 stone especially with tack aswell.

Now I'm not advocating that you plonk a rugby player on a 13.2hh pony but you have to take a lot of factors into consideration. Any extra weight, through rider or fat will put extra strain on joints the same as humans. Some horses may have weak joints & that may be half the reason why 2 horse of reasonably same stature feel so very different about carrying the same weight.

I'm just over 11 stone, now I could do with losing half a stone but its for my benefit really not my horse's she'll probably barely notice the difference as she tanks off with my dad & he's probably about 13 stone. But as I used to ride a 14hh ~25yr old when I was 9 & a half stone I think she'll manage.


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## Megibo (10 June 2011)

9.5 to 10.5 stone really isnt that much though, and neither is 11


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## Wagtail (10 June 2011)

I don't think the issue is with the majority of responsible adequately horsed people on this forum. I think the issue is with people who think it perfectly okay to plonk 22 stone plus tack on a horse and go hunting all day. I expect thatthis sort of thing happens quite a bit. I've seen quite a few huntsmen who must be approaching 20 stone! And yes, I DO think that it's cruel and that it is treating horses like machines. Horses love hunting and will try their hearts out for their riders. It is no wonder that so many are worn out before their time. I also know many overweight people do not even weigh themselves, and so may not even know just how much weight they are subjecting their horses to. 

But I am not against people who are light balanced riders and who have well matched mounts riding. I certainly wouldn't draw the line at 12 stone. If I had to put a figure on it tough, I would say it would be pretty hard to find a horse that was not detrimentally affected by a rider of more than 16-18 stone.


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## bugbee717 (10 June 2011)

How do you view a 20 - 22 stone person, what size clothes are they in, what are they able to do. What do they look like. I am just curious


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## Camel (10 June 2011)

BSJAlove said:



			one of the masters rides around here on a 16hh ISH type and hes huge. horse moves well. looks well. is extreamly fit and is more then coping. .
		
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Are you in Cheshire by any chance?? 

xx


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## Wagtail (10 June 2011)

bugbee717 said:



			How do you view a 20 - 22 stone person, what size clothes are they in, what are they able to do. What do they look like. I am just curious
		
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My friend is 20 stone. She is lovely. But she doesn't ride any more as she knows she is too heavy. She has a 15.2 hh cob that she has a sharer for. I don't really understand your question TBH. Some 20 stone people can be very active. Others are couch potatos. Some wear trendy clothes, others wear caftans.  I am not sure what your point is.


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## tallyho! (10 June 2011)

bugbee717 said:



			How do you view a 20 - 22 stone person, what size clothes are they in, what are they able to do. What do they look like. I am just curious
		
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Clinically obese, you see them on Supersize vs superskinny on telly and needs a "fat" ambulance?


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## bugbee717 (10 June 2011)

How do we view people who are this weight. What size clothes are they in, what are they able to do. I am not talking about big fit rugby men. I am talking about fat  men or women.


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## Wagtail (10 June 2011)

bugbee717 said:



			How do we view people who are this weight. What size clothes are they in, what are they able to do. I am not talking about big fit rugby men. I am talking about fat  men or women.
		
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I am not sure of how this is relevant. 20 stone of person or 20 stone of luggage, is still too heavy. There are certain things that you can or can't do according to your size. I am too tall to ever be a ballet dancer or a gymnast. I am too heavy to ride little ponies, though I'd love to  Why can I accept that but some obese people cannot accept that they are too heavy for their horses? It's about horse welfare, not about how we view heavy people.

I say SOME as most overweight horsey people that I know personally know when to give up riding. One friend gave up for five years as she gained loads of 'baby weight'. I thought she was never going to lose it, but then all of a sudden I get a surprise visit from her and she has lost all of it and is back riding her TBs. She had lost 4 stone and was back down to her pre baby 9 stone.


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## tallyho! (10 June 2011)

bugbee717 said:



			How do we view people who are this weight. What size clothes are they in, what are they able to do. I am not talking about big fit rugby men. I am talking about fat  men or women.
		
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Yeah you're a bit vague. Can you erm, flesh out your question a bit more


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## rachel_s (10 June 2011)

For what its worth, Stephen Hadley wrote in one of his books that he weighed about 12.5 stone which meant he could ride almost any horse (to jump/ work).  I don't believe he bothered to check bone just their jumping temperament.


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## skychick (10 June 2011)

Stacey6897 said:



			No use asking me anyway, I'm a 10st weakling on a 17hh ID, I look like a pimple on a pigs bum
		
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 that made me chuckle!!

im 5ft 4, 11.5 stone, size 12, ridiculously long legs for my height, wear 36inch leg jeans!! my horse is a 16.1 TBxWB medium weight, 16 or 17 years old. seems to carry me fine...although i dont hunt or compete so am not galloping her into the ground for hours on end. just school at home and jump and hack for an hour at a time, sometimes up to 3 hours (hacking) 
previous horse 14.2 irish sports pony, medium weight, definately had no issues carrying me! or launching, rearing, bucking bronking with me on him!

previous horse 14 hand arab definately no probs carrying me....but i was 8 stone then! oh how i long to be that weight again!


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## PapaFrita (10 June 2011)

Chloe..x said:



			This thread has annoyed me quite a lot and the sheer naivety of some people on here is shocking.
		
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I think you need to look up the word 'naive'. Horses have




			I'm around the 10 and a half stone mark and have a 16.2 DW and a 15.2 ISH and certainly would not put anymore than 12stone on their back, why put them through anymore stress and unnecessary strain? Barbaric.
		
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You definitely need to look up the word 'barbaric'. Most men of average height and build weigh 12 stone or more and plenty of tall, not fat women.


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## madeleine1 (10 June 2011)

i think people should stop being judgemental and condsider the answers to these questions.

is my mare happier out in a field being happy hacked and schooled and competed at a low level by me then in a riding school where she was in a stable most of the year with limited turnout in summer only and riden by a differant person everyday which stressed her out?

would she rather a heavier rider who is balanced and giving her confidance or a skinnier rider without a clue?

would she rather i rode her keeping her happy and in work while i slowly lost weight or would she rather i sold her on to another home and she was all insecure and went to an uncertain future because i weigh a lot?

ps my weight has been discussed with a back lady a farrier, a few yard owners, and two vets and they all say its not having an effect on her however i weigh more then most people on here would say should be put on a horse,

i responce to the original question (as these threads invariably get highjacked) i think how much is to much is hard to answer as it depends on the horse. i know horses who could easy carry 25 stone ie shires and large cobs and 17hh warm bloods. if the person is in control of their own body and capable of not pulling on the horses back to get on or cant move in sync with the horse. fact is tho that most people over 20 stone cant ride but then you cant rule anything out as people can weight differant weights for differant reasons. and we cant judge by cloth size or what people look like as someone guessed my weight at 11 stone the other day and they are way out btw


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## horsemadsarah (10 June 2011)

Aagghhh! This thread has made me mad. I'm usually a lurker but I just have to put in my two pence worth! 

I'm 5.7, weigh 11.3 st and would feel guilty of riding anything smaller than 16hh.  I wouldn't consider myself a 'fattie', but I am only just within the 'normal' range on the BMI index and still have _plenty_ of fat on me which doesnt need to be there! I used to weigh 12 1/2 stone and my knees used to click when walking up stairs. Since only loosing just over a stone, they have stopped clicking. 1 stone isn't much, but they all add up to make a difference!

Yes horses are strong animals, but only up to a point. I think some people severely over estimate how much their horse can comfortably carry, and how heavy people should weigh. 20st is far too much to ask any horse to carry and I think you have to be pretty selfish if you think it is acceptable. I work with shire horses and would never dream of putting this weight on their backs, regardless of how much bone they have.

Rugby players are heavy and not fat, but they dont get to 17st of muscle naturally. Weight is weight. People are hunter gatherers and we're built to survive on very little. Most men would be a healthy weight at 14st and under (depending on height) and for a big horse, this is the most I personally wan't to see sat on it. I don't agree with the 12st weight limit statement, but i'm not far off it. People need to realise that horse riding is a sport/hobby in which the welfare of another creature is involved. If you're overweight, maybe you should take up another sport such as running


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## tallyho! (10 June 2011)

Does anyone else think BONE as a factor for weight carrying totally ludicrous??


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## tallyho! (10 June 2011)

horsemadsarah said:



			Aagghhh! This thread has made me mad. I'm usually a lurker but I just have to put in my two pence worth! 

I'm 5.7, weigh 11.3 st and would feel guilty of riding anything smaller than 16hh.  I wouldn't consider myself a 'fattie', but I am only just within the 'normal' range on the BMI index and still have _plenty_ of fat on me which doesnt need to be there! I used to weigh 12 1/2 stone and my knees used to click when walking up stairs. Since only loosing just over a stone, they have stopped clicking. 1 stone isn't much, but they all add up to make a difference!

Yes horses are strong animals, but only up to a point. I think some people severely over estimate how much their horse can comfortably carry, and how heavy people should weigh. 20st is far too much to ask any horse to carry and I think you have to be pretty selfish if you think it is acceptable. I work with shire horses and would never dream of putting this weight on their backs, regardless of how much bone they have.

Rugby players are heavy and not fat, but they dont get to 17st of muscle naturally. Weight is weight. People are hunter gatherers and we're built to survive on very little. Most men would be a healthy weight at 14st and under (depending on height) and for a big horse, this is the most I personally wan't to see sat on it. I don't agree with the 12st weight limit statement, but i'm not far off it. People need to realise that horse riding is a sport/hobby in which the welfare of another creature is involved. If you're overweight, maybe you should take up another sport such as running 

Click to expand...

Welcome t'madhouse! 

i do agree with you Sarah.


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## *hic* (10 June 2011)

Nope - more bone would tend to give greater bearing surfaces at the joints (think how much more painful it is being trodden on by someone wearing stilettos than, say, cuban heels) and larger muscle attachment points.


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## sidesaddlegirl (10 June 2011)

I'm shocked that many people seem to think that horses shouldn't handle anything more than 12 stone and that is "babaric"! Best give up my 15 year old 15.3 TB then since I'm 13 1/2 stone, quit my Aquatone classes and put my bike in the bin since us "barbaic fatties" have no business enjoying life, exercise and our horses. 

I have the back lady out once a year as they always say when they come out that her back doesn't really much doing to it, my saddler is my "best friend" as he's always coming out and tweaking my side saddles, and we school dressage nearly every day and hack out miles (to shows even!) without any ill effects.

I probably wouldn't choose a TB of Hattie's size if I were 20 stone  but I think as long as the horse has enough bone, does not have any soundness issues, has well fitted tack checked over regularly by a saddler and the rider carries themselves well (I don't know how many little slips of things I saw at the last show we went to, getting left behind at every single fence, I feel sorry for THOSE horses!), then it shouldn't be a problem.

There are quite a few 20 stone ladies around where I keep mine and they ride their cob types happily and the horses do not have any lameness issues. They don't do BSJA but happily hack out and do local dressage. As long as the horses are well cared for, sound and happy, then live and let live I say!

I don't think people realize how little 12 stone is..

This is me at my skinniest ever at 12 stone on the nose in 2008 with the 17 year old 14.1 Arab I had at the time. I'm 5'9" so even at 12 stone, I would have been over the weight limit at alot of schools which is bizarre considering how skinny I looked! 







This is me taken a few weeks ago at 13 1/2 stone and don't look that much bigger than my previous photo (although a little older, LOL!  ) Still no tub 'o lard though. We always get positive comments from judges. It just goes to show how weight looks vs. "precieved" weight.


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## Jess Hoss (13 June 2011)

I hold my hands up. I'm a good dooer. As a full time gardener, I cut hedges, mow lawns, dig & do gardenery things. What I'm saying is "I have a very physical job". I should be sylph like - but I'm not. Ontop of that, I walk the dogs & wander around 38 acres of hill & glen to fetch my 14.3 HW cob. When I was getting my horse vetted, I stated my weight concern & intended use for the horse. The vet said that it was not going to be a problem at all. She was more than capable. A professional oppinion. So now for the ooohs & aaahhhs when I tell you that I was 15 1/2 stone. I've lost a wee bit since then. I have been trying. Nobody LIKES being fat. I get the spines & shihatsu woman out every 2 or 3 months. Her back is fine. I ride in a freeform treeless ( extremely lightweight ) saddle with orthopedic pad as these saddles have the best weight distribution. I am extremely aware of every move I make - I have an interest in centred riding.. .. .


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## Batgirl (13 June 2011)

Wagtail said:



			If you think a horse won't notice twenty stone then I think that it is you who are being ignorant. Just because they tolerate it doesn't mean it is not unkind to them. I think there are too many people making sweeping statements about how horse 'feel'. Just as other athletes have to keep fit and keep in shape, so should horse riders.
		
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Everyone is entitled to their own view however I feel that this is another generalisation that has little to do with weight, there are top eventers that weigh more than 12st.  Also from a personal point of view I am fit enough to play badminton (twice a week), netball (twice a week) and basketball (once a week) (I also used to play rugby for North England, Iam a fit athelete) as well as riding 5 times a week and I weigh 16st, 17hh ISH has no problem carrying me and neither did my 14'3 Section D and I have had backs checked and I am incredibley fit.

I do however think that there are some riders who are not fit enough to balance well enough and who are too heavy for their particular horses confirmation, the 12st thing is just so arbitrary.

People also say to carry a 5th of your weigh around, I know for a fact that if you go on all fours and do so you wouldn't find it that hard.

(BTW Carl Hester is over 12st)


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## Chloe..x (13 June 2011)

PapaFrita said:



			I think you need to look up the word 'naive'. Horses have


You definitely need to look up the word 'barbaric'. Most men of average height and build weigh 12 stone or more and plenty of tall, not fat women.
		
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Whats so hard about losing a few stone cos your horse will benefit in the long run. I don't see why its socially acceptable to put horses under such strain.


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## tallyho! (13 June 2011)

jemima_too said:



			Nope - more bone would tend to give greater bearing surfaces at the joints (think how much more painful it is being trodden on by someone wearing stilettos than, say, cuban heels) and larger muscle attachment points.
		
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Hmmm... I thought of that but then joint & suspension was more my line of thinking and obviously the vertebrae. Which anatomically speaking wasn't designed for up top weight but more hang down weight. Which is then slung between two shoulders which aren't supported other than by soft tissue.

I was thinking more along the lines of weight placement. i.e. xx weight put on similar horses but one with longer back and one with shorter back. Which then comes down to conformation.

So, if a horse with skinny legs and short back were to carry the same weight as a horse with thick legs and a long back, which would retire from anatomical malfunction first?

I see the legs as just stilts which keep the body off the ground and move the body around. How stable the body is depends on where those legs are (and a couple of other factors..)... i.e. conformation which determines how structurally sound the horse is and how much it could potentially carry comfortably.

So, I still think bone is not a determinable factor of weight carrrying ability.


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## PapaFrita (13 June 2011)

Chloe..x said:



			Whats so hard about losing a few stone cos your horse will benefit in the long run. I don't see why its socially acceptable to put horses under such strain.
		
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Seriously? 12 stone is a strain? Is it BARBARIC??? Don't be absurd. Most horses,even 'weedy' TBs, assuming horse is healthy, of reasonable conformation and rider not a complete sack of spuds, can carry at least 100kg and that's over 15 stone. How much do you think the Whittakers weigh? Or Geoff Billington??? Or Olly Townend?


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## Wagtail (13 June 2011)

PapaFrita said:



			Seriously? 12 stone is a strain? Is it BARBARIC??? Don't be absurd. Most horses,even 'weedy' TBs, assuming horse is healthy, of reasonable conformation and rider not a complete sack of spuds, can carry at least 100kg and that's over 15 stone. How much do you think the Whittakers weigh? Or Geoff Billington??? Or Olly Townend?
		
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I don't think the vast majority of people are saying that 12 stone is a problem.


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## Wagtail (13 June 2011)

Interestingly, arabs and TBs have greater bone density and can carry more weight per inch of bone than heavy horses. But then they rarely have more than 9 inches of bone and I wouldn't put more that 14 stone (plus tack) on a horse with 9 inches of bone.


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## bugbee717 (13 June 2011)

Chloe..x said:



			Whats so hard about losing a few stone cos your horse will benefit in the long run. I don't see why its socially acceptable to put horses under such strain.
		
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sorry if this sounds harse. I have ten horses/ponies, 3 children. I also work, if you think I am unfit or lazy feel free do a week with me you will not last a day. I have a very busy life. when I have been the weight watcher/ slimming world it is all to much food. NOt forgetting the hypnothephy/ accupunchere (sp). Some people can not lose weight like other people. I have no gall bladder and CAN NOT eat fat, it works in the same way diet tablets do, IE you eat fat you poo it out, quick and fast and it is not nice trust me. 


Just because I am fat it does not mean that I am not trying to lose weight, so whilst you make statements like this just stop for one moment and think.


I ride my hafflinger he is 14.3hh for 5 foot 11 I have very short legs, this horse can lift me off the ground with his head, he has gone from 700kg plus to 487kg, I know what I weigh. I would do seeing as a weigh myself each day. I currently weigh 20 stone 2 pounds up 4 from yesterday. 


so whilst you moan and bit33h about weight, think about us fat people, do you think for one second that I will let my children get like this hmmm no, a life which is not the same as other people, no I dont think so.

get a grip stop bashing that fat person cause they are an east target.
NOT EVERYONE IS THE SAME.


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## missyme10 (13 June 2011)

Interesting thread.
I've a 14.3hh gypsey cob, and will have a welsh cob same size to ride when she's grown up.
I'm 11 stone and i think thats fine.
My sister who's bigger all round also rides the gypsey cob but thats as big as i'll allow on him.
Dont get me wrong, i know he could carry more but why should he have to?
Its all about comfortably carrying a weight in my eyes.
There has to be a limit, of course it varies from horse to horse, but i personally wouldn't allow more than 14 stone on my ponies backs, regardless of size or breed or amount of bone x


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## Serenity087 (14 June 2011)

In short, a thread of gestimates and skinny people being foul.

So what is it... 12 stone, or 20% of body mass... which in Dorey's case, is quite a bit over 12 stone...

Now, given my mare is perfectly capable of throwing me off when she's in pain and HAS PREVIOUSLY DONE SO, I'm pretty sure being over 12 stone didn't kill her.

in fact, I think I was under 12stone when she tried killing me last time.  Just trivia though.

It shouldn't matter an iota what the rider ways as long as the saddle fits correctly.  The saddle should disperse the weight from off the horses spine onto the back and shoulder muscles. It should also be sized according to the rider to disperse the weight accordingly.

If people are buggering up their horses through being 12 stone, then I sincerly hope they shoot their saddlers.  Because I think you'll find it's dodgey tack to blame.

Or maybe atrocious riding.

Either way, where I have kept horses recently, a 12stone ban would stop most the riders from riding.  Ironically the horses always stabled up lame and on bute are the ones owned by the skinny minnies.

IMO weight is irrelevant.  Too many other factors.


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## *hic* (14 June 2011)

tallyho! said:



			Hmmm... I thought of that but then joint & suspension was more my line of thinking and obviously the vertebrae. Which anatomically speaking wasn't designed for up top weight but more hang down weight. Which is then slung between two shoulders which aren't supported other than by soft tissue.

I was thinking more along the lines of weight placement. i.e. xx weight put on similar horses but one with longer back and one with shorter back. Which then comes down to conformation.

So, if a horse with skinny legs and short back were to carry the same weight as a horse with thick legs and a long back, which would retire from anatomical malfunction first?

I see the legs as just stilts which keep the body off the ground and move the body around. How stable the body is depends on where those legs are (and a couple of other factors..)... i.e. conformation which determines how structurally sound the horse is and how much it could potentially carry comfortably.

So, I still think bone is not a determinable factor of weight carrrying ability.
		
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You're back to my point about bearing surfaces and muscle attachment points! Each of the bones in a long backed, heavily boned horse will proportionally have more bearing surface and bigger, stronger muscle attachment points than those in a light boned horse. In either case a horse which is correctly fittened and muscled up will last much longer.


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## Chloe..x (14 June 2011)

PapaFrita said:



			Seriously? 12 stone is a strain? Is it BARBARIC??? Don't be absurd. Most horses,even 'weedy' TBs, assuming horse is healthy, of reasonable conformation and rider not a complete sack of spuds, can carry at least 100kg and that's over 15 stone. How much do you think the Whittakers weigh? Or Geoff Billington??? Or Olly Townend?
		
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12stone plus tack etc makes at least 14stone plus. The Whitakers are absolutely tiny so I dont think they would weight that much! 
Say someone 14 stones+ rode my horse, thats around 16 stone plus in total and I personally wouldn't want my horses carrying that weight. I don't think many horses are infact fit enough to carry such weight unlike the top showjumpers/eventers which are purposely muscled up to the max and at the the height of fitness. I very much doubt these horses carrying 20 stone could go around a three day event or jump a grand prix now.


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## lexiedhb (14 June 2011)

Chloe..x said:



			12stone plus tack etc makes at least 14stone plus. The Whitakers are absolutely tiny so I dont think they would weight that much! 
Say someone 14 stones+ rode my horse, thats around 16 stone plus in total and I personally wouldn't want my horses carrying that weight. I don't think many horses are infact fit enough to carry such weight unlike the top showjumpers/eventers which are purposely muscled up to the max and at the the height of fitness. I very much doubt these horses carrying 20 stone could go around a three day event or jump a grand prix now.
		
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Umm unless you flock your saddle with cement there is NO WAY a saddle bridle and saddle cloth weighs 2 stone.......


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## Chloe..x (14 June 2011)

lexiedhb said:



			Umm unless you flock your saddle with cement there is NO WAY a saddle bridle and saddle cloth weighs 2 stone.......
		
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then hat, boots, body protector etc, I think it was quoted earlier in the topic.


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## Wagtail (14 June 2011)

bugbee717 said:



			sorry if this sounds harse. I have ten horses/ponies, 3 children. I also work, if you think I am unfit or lazy feel free do a week with me you will not last a day. I have a very busy life. when I have been the weight watcher/ slimming world it is all to much food. NOt forgetting the hypnothephy/ accupunchere (sp). Some people can not lose weight like other people. I have no gall bladder and CAN NOT eat fat, it works in the same way diet tablets do, IE you eat fat you poo it out, quick and fast and it is not nice trust me. 


Just because I am fat it does not mean that I am not trying to lose weight, so whilst you make statements like this just stop for one moment and think.


I ride my hafflinger he is 14.3hh for 5 foot 11 I have very short legs, this horse can lift me off the ground with his head, he has gone from 700kg plus to 487kg, I know what I weigh. I would do seeing as a weigh myself each day. I currently weigh 20 stone 2 pounds up 4 from yesterday. 


so whilst you moan and bit33h about weight, think about us fat people, do you think for one second that I will let my children get like this hmmm no, a life which is not the same as other people, no I dont think so.

get a grip stop bashing that fat person cause they are an east target.
NOT EVERYONE IS THE SAME.
		
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It is nothing to do with 'bashing' people for being fat. It is about horse welfare. At 20 stone plus tack you are far too heavy for your 14.3 500kg ish pony.


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## bugbee717 (14 June 2011)

Wagtail you do not know me or my horse, or what is able to carry or it's fitness level, nor do you know my fitness level or how I ride. Unless you know this I do not feel you are in a position to say what is right or wrong for me or my horse.


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## lexiedhb (14 June 2011)

Chloe..x said:



			then hat, boots, body protector etc, I think it was quoted earlier in the topic.
		
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1 stone YES- 2 not a chance.


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## ozpoz (14 June 2011)

No need to be defensive - no one is 'bashing' fat people.

People are supporting horse welfare by questioning how much they should be asked to carry, and some people have strong feelings horse welfare.
 I thought Tallyho's observations were a very important point and it would be good to have some proper scientific research on this. I know the Saddle Research Trust did a research day at Braconhurst recently, but don't know if weight came into it.


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## bugbee717 (14 June 2011)

I would love to some research, which breeds would you cover as all breeds are different, one size does not fit all as such. I have two friesians both are very different, in shape and size.


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## Wagtail (14 June 2011)

bugbee717 said:



			Wagtail you do not know me or my horse, or what is able to carry or it's fitness level, nor do you know my fitness level or how I ride. Unless you know this I do not feel you are in a position to say what is right or wrong for me or my horse.
		
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It doesn't matter if yo and your horse are in peak fitness or if you are the most balanced rider in the universe, I would still consider you too heavy for a 500 kg 14.3 pony. Sorry. There is nothing wrong with being overweight. Some people can be very healthy and fit even tough they are overweight. I don't have a problem with it at all! But I do think that it is unfair to ask a horse to carry you if you are that heavy.


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## Luci07 (14 June 2011)

Well this post has brought out some very strong feelings!. However, yet again please do not confuse opinion with fact. I have found some posts very interesting and others highly annoying! I am no lightweight either as move between 12 -13 stone - as in get up to the higher reaches, diet to get back down again, but I don't have any small horses either.  Anyone "guessing" my weight always gets it wrong because as a rider I am pretty solid.  I would tend to have put a higher weight limit on horses (not 12 stone) because I know quite a few people who go over that and have no problems although I will grant you I don't know anyone who rides at the higher end of the scales mentioned. For the record I personally prefer to ride big (ger) horses as I learnt on a 15.3 as a child and rather missed out on ponies. Current horses are 16.3 TB x cob and 17.1 ISH. I have nothing against ponies and feel I missed out as a child but it does mean I automatically feel more comfortable on a horse. Smallest I ever had was still a 16.1 TB. 

For me, as I have never been a skinny minnie, my focus is more on trying to improve my fitness. I also asked my friend to check how I was sitting last night as felt slightly one sided and it looks like my old problems have crept back in (knee injuries, over compensating as a result) so will have to go back to get properly aligned after my holiday. 

I can see both sides of the story, but please PLEASE read the earlier posts carefully before sparking off. I have seen constant misintepretation of some earlier statements which just keeps the same views going round in circles. I am interested when I learn from facts (and never knew about the 20% ruling either) and different views but can we keep "views/opinions" distinct from "fact"!!


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## Wolfie (14 June 2011)

Personally, I think as long as the horse is suited to the rider and the rider is aware of what the horse can do then there is not so much of a problem. Leisure horses are generally only ridden for an hour a day at most, so it is unlikely that their joints will be worked into the ground, provided the horse is matched to his rider. What does worry me is when you see a rider mounted on a horse that is obviously far too slight for purpose. I have been to a few sj competitions where there have been ladies far in excess of 12 stone mounted on lightweight foreign horses. Not saying the larger person should not jump, just choose a suitable horse.


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## tazzle (14 June 2011)

I personally dont like the broad statement of the 20% weight  unless it is clearly applied to a horse at its optimum fit weight otherwise we do get to the logical but erronious conclusion that an obese horse can carry more than a light one  ...... which is patently not correct 

The amount of "bone" too is not always reliable or fact  either  ..... just a general guide ..... density of bone too is relevant , I believe arabs have denser bones and medically denser will equate to more strength.


 I think it is very very difficult to get actual fact sorted out as even the professionals / scientists will deliver different "facts" so how can those of us escape then adding in our own experiences / values / opinions. .. and sincerely believing them 



I rather look at the build of the horse ... a "leg at each corner" horse with a  shorter back should imo carry  more weight even if its shorter in height. I also take the horses conformation into account  because legs that are "compromised" already will be far more likely to develop arthritic changes for example if lost stress / hard work done.

 If the horse / pone has good conformation then it will be able to work better 
 The work / rider fitness too is of great importance.  


According to some of the theories  / opinions I should not be riding Taz and she certainly should not be able to do this and remain free of physical effects / be physically stressed.










20 miles in 2 hours 19 mins ... not bad at novice level and for a native 



To balance that and show that  I really do look at it from all angles... my half shire mare (now on loan to a wonderful person) was previously on loan to a person who deceived me and  the person who was riding her (lighter than me)  was  very unbalanced and could not rise to the trot  / banging on her back .... and this went on  for months     When I toook B back she felt like a banana  and needed chiro treatment and body work to get her back fit enough to start riding again.  She muscled up correctly and then once I started riding her she improved greatly .......it was not the weight of the previous rider its was BAD riding.

So I guess what Iam concoluding is that I would be vey careful  about weight limits on a young, unfit horse / pone or with a beginner  / unlabanced /unfit rider.



I dont know tbh how I would "calculate" a general rule as to what weight is the top limit for any given reasonably fit horse of given breed /size . I just know that I am aware of my weight ( which for me is not ideal   but for a 6 foot man might be fine    )  and that I would not ride a 14.1 hackney for example ..... or even a young unfit finer boned 14.1 welshie  ...... but that my 14.1 welshie is absolutely fine. I know I am personally fit enough and balanced enough not to bounce up and down in an uncontrolled manner.


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## Chloe..x (14 June 2011)

To be honest, this topic is now going round and round in circles. Everyone is gonna differ on opinions especially when it comes to sensitive topics such as weight. 

If I was doing a degree to do with horses at uni, I'd love to do this as a dissertation topic but i'm doing medicinal chemistry so pretty irrelevant.


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## The Virgin Dubble (14 June 2011)

Just my opinion, but far too many people concentrate on the weight/expertise of the rider, rather than the fitness of the horse, which is far more important.

It's no good saying 'I'm heavy, but I don't do much with my horse, so it's okay'. An unfit horse that doesn't do much, will feel the strain of carrying a heavy rider, much more than a fitter horse would.

It's up to the rider to take responsibility and make sure the horse is fit enough to carry their weight comfortably...


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## tazzle (14 June 2011)

Dubs said:



			Just my opinion, but far too many people concentrate on the weight/expertise of the rider, rather than the fitness of the horse, which is far more important.

It's no good saying 'I'm heavy, but I don't do much with my horse, so it's okay'. An unfit horse that doesn't do much, will feel the strain of carrying a heavy rider, much more than a fitter horse would.

It's up to the rider to take responsibility and make sure the horse is fit enough to carry their weight comfortably...
		
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definately ..... both have to be fit


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## SmallHunter (14 June 2011)

Chloe..x said:



			Whats so hard about losing a few stone cos your horse will benefit in the long run. I don't see why its socially acceptable to put horses under such strain.
		
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I'm 5ft 10 and weigh 12st well within the healthy weight range for my height if I were to lose a few stone and went down to 9st I would be underweight and unhealthy for my height. 
Just because someone weighs 12st does not make them overweight it just might be that they are not a midget

My poor 15hh mare clearly buckling under the weight of my obviously huge a*** had to put up with me for 8 yrs don't know how she's coped


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## Spudlet (14 June 2011)

I'm 5ft9, weigh somewhere around 11 stone. If I lost much more weight I would be ill. When I say I prefer a larger horse to carry me, most people look at me like I'm nuts! Us tall people are more than capable of riding, we just need horses built for proper-sized people rather than little squirts It's not our fault if we're surrounded by midgets.

ETA - how much do we think the average sized cavalry trooper in full ceremonial kit weighs... under ten stone? I hardly think so. Their horses always look pretty well to me!


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## shadowboy (14 June 2011)

soulfull said:



			There are so many threads on weight and what a horse can carry.

Most of the time I think people are too 'PC' to be honest or we are not honest enough with ourselves

I am not a skinny person but truly believe that we often don't correctly consider the weight of rider enough!! we kid ourselves and each other

Some say 'In the old days even a small  horse would carry a 15st farmer hunting'  yes but he would be knackered by the time he was 12/13.

It is said 'oh I am ??st and for example my 15.2h TB carries me fine.  Horse may carry you fine for x amount of time BUT it WILL cause extra wear and tear on joints etc

Doctors regularly tell patients  lose weight and your knees/hips/back will be much better!!!!  and it often works

My view is anyone over 12st who wants a horse to be healthy for years and years needs to chose a horse very carefully, for both bone, breeding and conformation.  Obviously the more over 12st you are the more carefully you need to chose and take into account what you want to do with the horse
		
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 totally agree- and too many people don't consider that the tack is another stone too- so your 16 stone person in boots, hat, with GP Leather saddle and body protector is actually 17 stone. 

This is why I was worried about backing my 13.3hh New Forest Pony as I am 9stone before equipment (although only 5'4)...


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## kerilli (14 June 2011)

hear hear soulfull. and as for the wonderful line I hear fairly often about horses not complaining about the weight... words fail me. 
shadowboy, my saddles all weigh about a stone, by the time i've added in my kit, and all the rest of the tack, it's probably more like a stone and a half or even more.
i'm carefully steering clear of the rest of this thread, too many hot potatoes... just want to say that obviously one needs to take into consideration what the horse (lightweight or heavyweight, of whatever size) is being asked to do. a nice slow hack is one thing, galloping xc with a heavy rider on its back is something quite different...


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## PapaFrita (14 June 2011)

Chloe..x said:



			12stone plus tack etc makes at least 14stone plus. The Whitakers are absolutely tiny so I dont think they would weight that much! 
Say someone 14 stones+ rode my horse, thats around 16 stone plus in total and I personally wouldn't want my horses carrying that weight. I don't think many horses are infact fit enough to carry such weight unlike the top showjumpers/eventers which are purposely muscled up to the max and at the the height of fitness. I very much doubt these horses carrying 20 stone could go around a three day event or jump a grand prix now.
		
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An average sized bloke can easily weigh 12 stone. And no one is talking about a 20 stone person riding round Badminton or Grand Prix SJing or even dressage. We're talking about the majority of horses who are ridden one hour a day and often not every day. Eventing/SJing fitness is not required for most riding club activities. As I've said before, there IS no hard and fast rule; a heavy but balanced rider will feel lighter than a smaller 'sack of spuds' and obviously a horse in good health and with good conformation will have less trouble carrying weight than one who has had soundness issues or has poor conformation.
FTR there ARE several event riders who I think are too large for their chosen sport, which, incidentally, is one of the most gruelling equestrian events there is,and not comparable to general riding activities. Buck Davison, Becky Johnson and Amy Tryon are all VERY sturdy and whilst clearly competent enough to be selected to represent their countries at major events round the world, I can't help but think that their horses' tasks would be that much easier if they shed a few pounds.


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## Spudlet (14 June 2011)

PapaFrita said:



			As I've said before, there IS no hard and fast rule; a heavy but balanced rider will feel lighter than a smaller *'sack of spuds' *...
		
Click to expand...



Spud-ist


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## shadowboy (14 June 2011)

BTW it dont think 12 stone is a weight limit, more a point where you should consider " is this the right horse for me? " can this horse comfortably carry me and do a good job?


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## JessnGeorge (14 June 2011)

Interesting how long the "fat" issue has taken to get round to the horse world isn't it? We all know deep down what our horses are capable of and how we feel in ourselves. I KNOW when I have put weight on and it doesn't suit me, I am 5ft 4in and weight 10st 3, I should be 8.5st (but am in 28 waist jods, size 12 tops), my boy is 16hh and barely knows I am there, I have an independent seat and light hands, if you are a heavier rider and are perhaps inexperienced then the choice of horse may be different (and you may need to be advised of this from someone more experienced and not be offended). This thread is all based on personal opinion, but personally I wouldn't and couldn't ride if I were 20st

My point is that we can't all look as skinny as Ellen Whittaker/Cheryl Cole etc, but we are responsible horse owners and deep down we all know what is right for us and our horses.


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## jenki13 (14 June 2011)

Spudlet said:



			I'm 5ft9, weigh somewhere around 11 stone. If I lost much more weight I would be ill. When I say I prefer a larger horse to carry me, most people look at me like I'm nuts! Us tall people are more than capable of riding, we just need horses built for proper-sized people rather than little squirts It's not our fault if we're surrounded by midgets.

ETA - how much do we think the average sized cavalry trooper in full ceremonial kit weighs... under ten stone? I hardly think so. Their horses always look pretty well to me!
		
Click to expand...

I tried searching for how much the ceremonial kit of the household cavalry actually weighs but can't seem to. However each of the silver drums (for the drum horses) weighs 68lbs each! That's 136lbs before saddle & rider.. so about 9 + 1/2 stone..  + 12 stone for a rider = over 21 stone & as they are all men I'll be surprised if they all only weigh 12 stone (with saddle). So can't discount any horse from carrying over 20 stone! 

I can't find anything about how old drum horses are when they retire but it was said that the regimental horses often retire at 17/18 & start at 4 years old. 
In all as long as the horse is picked carefully & looked after well Some horses can carry a lot more weight & stay sound for a long time. Especially when only performing Low Impact activity i.e. no jumping or galloping on hard ground.


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## Lady La La (14 June 2011)

I was having this debate with someone at a show not long ago... 

I was saying to a woman in the line up next to me that, until I'd lost some weight I wouldn't be doing much with my other horse, a fine 15hh tbx. She replied that she thought this was sensible, and proceeded to tell me how disgusting it was seeing blatantly overweight riders on fine legged horses all over the show grounds.. and that this was why she rode a cob, and that if she ever got over 14 stone she would stop riding him too - This was where the conversation ended as the judge then had a shuffle round and stuck her and her grossly over weight cob towards the back of the line.

.. I did wonder to myself why she thought letting her horse carry such a dangerous amount of weight was alright.. but that if she put another stone or so on she would do the right thing and stop riding him..

People are mental.


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## Spudlet (14 June 2011)

I also wonder how much of the perception that weight in single figures is the only way to go (which does seem to be the perception of some posters on this thread, admittedly from skimming through replies rather than an in-depth reading) is related to the fact that riding now tends to be a female dominated sport - hence, the participants are generally physically smaller than men, and therefore seeing participants of a lower weight therefore becomes the norm, in a way that possibly would not have been the case when more men rode. What I mean is, the capability of the horses has not changed - but our perceptions of what is 'normal' have.


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## Wagtail (14 June 2011)

jenki13 said:



			I tried searching for how much the ceremonial kit of the household cavalry actually weighs but can't seem to. However each of the silver drums (for the drum horses) weighs 68lbs each! That's 136lbs before saddle & rider.. so about 9 + 1/2 stone..  + 12 stone for a rider = over 21 stone & as they are all men I'll be surprised if they all only weigh 12 stone (with saddle). So can't discount any horse from carrying over 20 stone! 

I can't find anything about how old drum horses are when they retire but it was said that the regimental horses often retire at 17/18 & start at 4 years old. 
In all as long as the horse is picked carefully & looked after well Some horses can carry a lot more weight & stay sound for a long time. Especially when only performing Low Impact activity i.e. no jumping or galloping on hard ground.
		
Click to expand...

The drum horses used are shire types not 14.3hh ponies like some on here that weight 20 stone are riding. However, just because the cavalery does smething does not make it right. Horses got killed and maimed in wars, so that must be right too by your logic.


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## Wagtail (14 June 2011)

NOW FOR THE SCIENCE:

From Horse Science News

While most healthy horses can easily carry a rider and saddle, they do have their limits. Now researchers have identified a threshold for when a rider is too heavy for a horse to comfortably carry. 

The scientists base their findings on detailed measurements taken of eight horses that were ridden while packing anywhere from 15 to 30% of their body weight. The horses ranged in size from 400 to 625 kilograms (885 to 1375 pounds). 

When carrying 15 and 20% of their body weight, the horses showed relatively little indication of stress. It's when they were packing weights of 25% that physical signs changed markedly, and these became accentuated under 30% loads.   

The horses had noticeably faster breathing and higher heart rates when carrying tack and rider amounting to 25% or more of their body weight. A day after trotting and cantering with the heftier weights, the horses' muscles showed substantially greater soreness and tightness. Those horses that were least sore from the exercise had wider loins, the part of a horse's back located between their last rib and croup. 

Based on these results, the study's authors recommend that horses not be loaded with greater than 20% of their body weight. A 545-kilogram (1200 pound) horse, then would be best off carrying no more than 109 kg (240 lbs) of tack and rider. 

Interestingly, this research from the Ohio State University Agricultural Technical Institute has concluded with the same weight guideline that the US Calvary Manuals of Horse Management published in 1920.


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## Lady La La (14 June 2011)

So, going by that, my fine legged 450kg horse could carry up to and around 14 stone without finding it a struggle?

...Is that right?  ..my maths has a tendancey to let me down when its needed the most (along with my spelling, etc) 

If so, I'll crack on with the cake. Got a few more stone to go before I need to worry


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## Yertis (14 June 2011)

14 stone 2lb or 198 lb, go and have a nice big gooey cream donut lol!!


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## marmalade76 (14 June 2011)

PapaFrita said:



			.
FTR there ARE several event riders who I think are too large for their chosen sport, which, incidentally, is one of the most gruelling equestrian events there is,and not comparable to general riding activities. Buck Davison, Becky Johnson and Amy Tryon are all VERY sturdy and whilst clearly competent enough to be selected to represent their countries at major events round the world, I can't help but think that their horses' tasks would be that much easier if they shed a few pounds.
		
Click to expand...

I agree, Amy tryon in particular is not only tall but built like a BSH!


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## tazzle (14 June 2011)

When carrying 15 and 20% of their body weight, the horses showed relatively little indication of stress.
		
Click to expand...

thank you for finding and quoting the scientific evidence  .......... and it does  back up my stated situation with *my* welshie as being fit and not harmed as  she carries within that limit.   

Did the research say what types of horses were used in the study as I do still agree with lady lala that  the build / type of the horse not just it's weight is relevant.... there are many 14.1 pones I would NOT ride as I consider myself too heavy for them.


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## bugbee717 (14 June 2011)

this is the report from the equine journal which horse science news wrote the report from 

Abstract 
To answer the question of whether horse height, cannon bone circumference, and loin width can be used as indicators of weight-carrying ability in light horses, eight mature horses underwent a submaximal mounted standard exercise test under four conditions: carrying 15, 20, 25, or 30% of their body weight. Heart rate was monitored, plasma lactate concentration was determined in jugular blood samples pre-exercise, immediately post-exercise, and 10 minutes post-exercise, with serum creatine kinase activity determined at the same times as plasma lactate concentrations, with additional samples collected at 24 hours and 48 hours post-exercise. Muscle soreness and muscle tightness scores were determined using a subjective scoring system 24 hours before and 24 hours after exercise. Heart rates remained significantly higher when the horses carried 25 and 30% of their body weight. Plasma lactate concentrations immediately and 10 minutes after exercise differed when horses carried 30% of their body weight compared with 15, 20, and 25% weight carriage. Horses tended to have a greater change in muscle soreness and muscle tightness when carrying 25% of their body weight, and a significant change in soreness and tightness scores was found in horses carrying 30% of their body weight. Loin width and cannon bone circumference were found to be negatively correlated to the changes in muscle soreness and tightness scores. In conclusion, the data suggest that horses with wider loin and thicker cannon bone circumference became less sore when carrying heavier weight loads.


think I may pay the $15 for the whole report, so the report show that horses with wider loins and thicker cannon bone have less soreness when carrying weight.


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## bugbee717 (14 June 2011)

This is the link 
http://www.j-evs.com/article/PIIS0737080607004133/abstract


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## *hic* (14 June 2011)

Wagtail said:



			NOW FOR THE SCIENCE:

From Horse Science News

While most healthy horses can easily carry a rider and saddle, they do have their limits. Now researchers have identified a threshold for when a rider is too heavy for a horse to comfortably carry. 

The scientists base their findings on detailed measurements taken of eight horses that were ridden while packing anywhere from 15 to 30% of their body weight. The horses ranged in size from 400 to 625 kilograms (885 to 1375 pounds). 

When carrying 15 and 20% of their body weight, the horses showed relatively little indication of stress. It's when they were packing weights of 25% that physical signs changed markedly, and these became accentuated under 30% loads.   

The horses had noticeably faster breathing and higher heart rates when carrying tack and rider amounting to 25% or more of their body weight. A day after trotting and cantering with the heftier weights, the horses' muscles showed substantially greater soreness and tightness. Those horses that were least sore from the exercise had wider loins, the part of a horse's back located between their last rib and croup. 

Based on these results, the study's authors recommend that horses not be loaded with greater than 20% of their body weight. A 545-kilogram (1200 pound) horse, then would be best off carrying no more than 109 kg (240 lbs) of tack and rider. 

Interestingly, this research from the Ohio State University Agricultural Technical Institute has concluded with the same weight guideline that the US Calvary Manuals of Horse Management published in 1920.
		
Click to expand...

On the back of that would anyone NOW like to comment on this very fit 13.3 470Kg Welsh carrying 14 stone of rider and tack. Note that the scientific evidence shows changes above 25% not 20% and this boy is carrying (just) under 20%. He does have rather a lot of bone as well, in fact well over 9 inches. In my defence I am wearing my body protector here.


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## jenki13 (14 June 2011)

Wagtail said:



			The drum horses used are shire types not 14.3hh ponies like some on here that weight 20 stone are riding. However, just because the cavalery does smething does not make it right. Horses got killed and maimed in wars, so that must be right too by your logic.
		
Click to expand...

No. That's why I said SOME horses. Also I was just giving an example of horses that are riding in some heavy kit & are ok with it. As I said it has be a well chosen horse. 
Your last statement is like me saying by your logic no heavy horses should be pulling drays or carts because they are over 20 stone in weight.


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## *hic* (14 June 2011)

bugbee717 said:



			this is the report from the equine journal which horse science news wrote the report from 

Abstract 
To answer the question of whether horse height, cannon bone circumference, and loin width can be used as indicators of weight-carrying ability in light horses, eight mature horses underwent a submaximal mounted standard exercise test under four conditions: carrying 15, 20, 25, or 30% of their body weight. Heart rate was monitored, plasma lactate concentration was determined in jugular blood samples pre-exercise, immediately post-exercise, and 10 minutes post-exercise, with serum creatine kinase activity determined at the same times as plasma lactate concentrations, with additional samples collected at 24 hours and 48 hours post-exercise. Muscle soreness and muscle tightness scores were determined using a subjective scoring system 24 hours before and 24 hours after exercise. Heart rates remained significantly higher when the horses carried 25 and 30% of their body weight. Plasma lactate concentrations immediately and 10 minutes after exercise differed when horses carried 30% of their body weight compared with 15, 20, and 25% weight carriage. Horses tended to have a greater change in muscle soreness and muscle tightness when carrying 25% of their body weight, and a significant change in soreness and tightness scores was found in horses carrying 30% of their body weight. Loin width and cannon bone circumference were found to be negatively correlated to the changes in muscle soreness and tightness scores.* In conclusion, the data suggest that horses with wider loin and thicker cannon bone circumference became less sore when carrying heavier weight loads.


think I may pay the $15 for the whole report, so the report show that horses with wider loins and thicker cannon bone have less soreness when carrying weight.*

Click to expand...

Ah, chaps like the little (in height, dear things, in height) Welsh I have pictured. He's got such a lot of bone and width through his body and even now he has finally retired (he was in his twenties when the picture was taken) and has little added muscle tone he still looks fit and muscled compared to many other horses still in work. He's just a superbly built riding animal.


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## *hic* (14 June 2011)

jenki13 said:



			No. That's why I said SOME horses. Also I was just giving an example of horses that are riding in some heavy kit & are ok with it. As I said it has be a well chosen horse. 
Your last statement is like me saying by your logic no heavy horses should be pulling drays or carts because they are over 20 stone in weight.
		
Click to expand...

*giggles*

After my jumping picture I'd now like to say that my Section A has easily pulled a two wheeled cart with over 35 stone in. She just didn't really notice it - but I do know how to balance the cart properly so that even I, a middle aged overweight person, can move it with 35 stone in.


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## tazzle (14 June 2011)

thank you bugbee 

that cerainly seems to have presented sound evidence using stated assessment criteria and blood test results rather than  just opinion.

It does clarify the position for that area where this 12 stone ish "limit" does seem to have appeared for some horses and most pones about 14hh.

edited to add

from lady lala




			.. I did wonder to myself why she thought letting her horse carry such a dangerous amount of weight was alright
		
Click to expand...

perhaps  its not dangerous for a cob ? 

mine does not think so  , fit and sound aged 16

would you have said the same if it was a man on a cob...... we do as a society tend to regard / treat  any overweight ( even fit ones)  (or even just anyone a size 14  heaven forbid) harsher.


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## Solo1 (14 June 2011)

So.... at 9 1/4 stone and at 5'8, would riding my 14.2hh IDxTB x connie be unfair on her?


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## Jane1706 (14 June 2011)

I have to admit I did watch the Trooping of the Colour at the weekend and all those glorious Cavalry horses in full kit with riders in full military dress some in bearskin helmets some with Silver Breast plates not to mention the Drum Horses, and thought of this thread.

I am assuming that letters will be written to the Queen telling her that she is cruel and thoughtless


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## Lady La La (14 June 2011)

Tazzle, I think you missunderstand me.. it was the cob carry too much of his own weight, which, of course IS dangerous.
.. It was the riders concern for her own weight and not that of her horse that confused me.


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## shadowboy (14 June 2011)

Solo1 said:



			So.... at 9 1/4 stone and at 5'8, would riding my 14.2hh IDxTB x connie be unfair on her?
		
Click to expand...

It would depend on her weight and bone....


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## tazzle (14 June 2011)

Lady La La said:



			Tazzle, I think you missunderstand me.. it was the cob carry too much of his own weight, which, of course IS dangerous.
.. It was the riders concern for her own weight and not that of her horse that confused me.
		
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ahhhhhhhhhhh  I see , yes I did misunderstand  , sorry

I agree that obesity in horses is often overlooked   ...... and especially when its could be used in ignorance to calculate how much weight carrying ability it can do !  

I am concerned about both of us being at healthy weights (and I am currently losing weight I put on due to a medical condition)  and when I was at my heaviest I did not ride Taz, we drove more ( and long lined so I had to walk    )



I must actually go find the research I read recently that indicated that mild "overweightedness"  does not impact health concerns as much as lack if fitness... ie  if  a person is classed as overweight it is more important to be fit / do excercise than it is to be thin 

Nowt as good, nor as frustrating,  as changing "official" / scientific evidence


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## diet2ride (14 June 2011)

I try to stay clear of these kinds of threads... Purely because I don't want a public flogging. And I also think most of them are started just to cause a witch hunt. 
What does annoy me though when you put into a search engine how much weight can a horse carry you get directed to these kind of links. Where you get a lot of personal opinions and not much in the way of real answers, and as for the science bit... Ive also read that report and tbh I don't think it stands up. No one knows for sure if my horse will be sorer going out for a 4hr hack with a 9st rider or me riding him for 15mins. 
For me personally there is a limit at 25st I couldn't ride. At a fitter 23st yes I can walk around and do a few strides of trot. I have taken the personal decision to wait until I am less than 300lbs before I get back on him, there is no science in this I just know in my heart I will feel more comfortable. If I happen to get there and still feel an inadequate rider I shall wait until I have lost more.
I spent the last four years of my life searching the Internet for an answer that isn't here. If I had followed my gut I would of been riding but instead I listened to the kind of waffle I have read on here, when the issue of overweight riders comes up why do people who obviously dont have a weight problem even post!!!
I am not mean to my horse at all; I have a lot of respect and love for him, so why should I be ridiculed because I am overweight  being fat isnt a lifestyle choice, its something that happens to you the same as ocd kicks in on some people, Or  even depression. 
As for long term health issues, We all know of a horror story where a dressage horse has a breakdown after years of training... Someone even said to me as they advance it's to be expected that they develop problems. Should we all start flinging stones at Carl Hester! it happens in every discipline. And no matter how fluffy we might like to treat our horses some are bought to do a job and be worked to the end of their limits. 
This is me when I first got Nas 

http://youtu.be/Nanm06LnHB8

Four years later

http://youtu.be/42p4qcpQI3Y

And this one just because, I think it shows the partnership between horse and rider isnt all about fluffy bunny slippers 

http://www.nowness.com/day/2010/9/2/nacho-figueras-by-matthew-donaldson


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## Onyxia (14 June 2011)

jemima_too said:



			On the back of that would anyone NOW like to comment on this very fit 13.3 470Kg Welsh carrying 14 stone of rider and tack. Note that the scientific evidence shows changes above 25% not 20% and this boy is carrying (just) under 20%. He does have rather a lot of bone as well, in fact well over 9 inches. In my defence I am wearing my body protector here.






Click to expand...

Very nice pony- I am a sucker for a giner native 
 You do have to wonder if Wagtail managed to read the text she added,or if she just assumed it was her opinion as it clearly comes down on the "side" of what others have been saying all along- 20% of the horses ideal weight is the guide and then take the other facters (such as rider ability,and the composition of their weight) into account when you make your decision.

I have said repetadly that I truely DO belive we need to stay slim and fit- we owe it to our horses,but we to set a weight limit for riding is bloody stupid as by the time most are heavy enough to do any damage,they will be unable to mount anyway!


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## ozpoz (14 June 2011)

Please bear this in mind when you are calculating - it's research from 2004, and I quote 

"Fruewirth observed that accelerations within canter could generate a force of up to two and a half times the weight of the rider."

Going by this, it means that up to 50 stone could impact on your horse,if you ride at 20 stone.
Now, someone please convince me that this is not a welfare issue!


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## PapaFrita (14 June 2011)

ozpoz said:



			"Fruewirth observed that accelerations within canter could generate a force of up to two and a half times the weight of the rider."

Going by this, it means that up to 50 stone could impact on your horse,if you ride at 20 stone.
Now, someone please convince me that this is not a welfare issue!


Click to expand...

20 stone is, according to Google, 127kg. 127kg is 20% of 637kg. A wb can easily weigh that much, so according to the rest of the research quoted, no significant strain at all. A chunkier, draught type, at a greater mass and therefore weight would would find it even easier to carry. Welfare issue? No, I don't think so.


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## ozpoz (14 June 2011)

Sorry, papa~Frita I don't go with the 20% being ok, long term.
But I've said all this before.


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## PapaFrita (14 June 2011)

ozpoz said:



			Sorry, papa~Frita I don't go with the 20% being ok, long term.
But I've said all this before.
		
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I did also say that 20stone/127kg on a larger/stockier and therefore heavier horse would be rather less than 20%. A draught horse can easily weigh over 900kg and a shire/clydesdale even more.


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## bugbee717 (14 June 2011)

All those fat riders oh just came up with best idea, I have ten horses soooo I am gonna start riding two at a time, therefore each will only have about 10 and half stone, job done. If frederic pignon can then so can I, if any needs to borrow a horse pm me lol


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## Solo1 (14 June 2011)

What would you consider too heavy for my pony then...







IDxTB x Connemara, 14'2hh

I'm 9 stone 4 IBs, will I be 'cruel' by riding her? :S


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## rema (14 June 2011)

You must be joking,.Your horse could carry one and a half of you easily.


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## tallyho! (14 June 2011)

jemima_too said:



			You're back to my point about bearing surfaces and muscle attachment points! Each of the bones in a long backed, heavily boned horse will proportionally have more bearing surface and bigger, stronger muscle attachment points than those in a light boned horse. In either case a horse which is correctly fittened and muscled up will last much longer.
		
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I'm so sorry jemima_too but I really don't see how what I have said has anything to do with muscle attachment points (entheses) and infact what you have said is anatomically incorrect.

Entheses have nothing to do with weight bearing. What I was saying had relevance to physics. 

Your argument is based on physiology, which still isn't correct because entheses are the WEAKEST points on the body and are most at risk from force injuries which is why people and horses injure tendons most easily at those points.


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## tallyho! (14 June 2011)

PapaFrita said:



			20 stone is, according to Google, 127kg. 127kg is 20% of 637kg. A wb can easily weigh that much, so according to the rest of the research quoted, no significant strain at all. A chunkier, draught type, at a greater mass and therefore weight would would find it even easier to carry. Welfare issue? No, I don't think so.
		
Click to expand...

Eh??? I don't get that!!! So, a fat horse can carry more weight than a thin horse??

Not only does the horse have to carry it's own excess weight, it has to carry someone elses too??

Is that what you are saying? If not correct me


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## *hic* (14 June 2011)

tallyho! said:



			I'm so sorry jemima_too but I really don't see how what I have said has anything to do with muscle attachment points (entheses) and infact what you have said is anatomically incorrect.

Entheses have nothing to do with weight bearing. What I was saying had relevance to physics. 

Your argument is based on physiology, which still isn't correct* because entheses are the WEAKEST points on the body* and are most at risk from force injuries which is why people and horses injure tendons most easily at those points.
		
Click to expand...

So presumably, and I'm happy to be corrected, having a larger area to attach larger muscles would make them less weak?


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## *hic* (14 June 2011)

tallyho! said:



			Eh??? I don't get that!!! So, a fat horse can carry more weight than a thin horse??

Not only does the horse have to carry it's own excess weight, it has to carry someone elses too??

Is that what you are saying? If not correct me 

Click to expand...

I stand to be corrected again as I'm guessing what PF intended but the words "chunkier draught type" were used to indicate just that, ie an Ardennes or similar, not "an obese horse".


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## PapaFrita (14 June 2011)

jemima_too said:



			I stand to be corrected again as I'm guessing what PF intended but the words "chunkier draught type" were used to indicate just that, ie an Ardennes or similar, not "an obese horse".
		
Click to expand...

Exactly this.


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## Wagtail (14 June 2011)

Yunalesca said:



			Very nice pony- I am a sucker for a giner native 
 You do have to wonder if Wagtail managed to read the text she added,or if she just assumed it was her opinion as it clearly comes down on the "side" of what others have been saying all along- 20% of the horses ideal weight is the guide and then take the other facters (such as rider ability,and the composition of their weight) into account when you make your decision.

I have said repetadly that I truely DO belive we need to stay slim and fit- we owe it to our horses,but we to set a weight limit for riding is bloody stupid as by the time most are heavy enough to do any damage,they will be unable to mount anyway!
		
Click to expand...

Yes, it made my point exactly. Some people on here are approaching 30% or more of their horse's bodyweight. That is what I am arguing is cruel, not 12 stone.


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## Wagtail (14 June 2011)

diet2ride said:



			I try to stay clear of these kinds of threads... Purely because I don't want a public flogging. And I also think most of them are started just to cause a witch hunt. 
What does annoy me though when you put into a search engine how much weight can a horse carry you get directed to these kind of links. Where you get a lot of personal opinions and not much in the way of real answers, and as for the science bit... Ive also read that report and tbh I don't think it stands up. No one knows for sure if my horse will be sorer going out for a 4hr hack with a 9st rider or me riding him for 15mins. 
For me personally there is a limit at 25st I couldn't ride. At a fitter 23st yes I can walk around and do a few strides of trot. I have taken the personal decision to wait until I am less than 300lbs before I get back on him, there is no science in this I just know in my heart I will feel more comfortable. If I happen to get there and still feel an inadequate rider I shall wait until I have lost more.
I spent the last four years of my life searching the Internet for an answer that isn't here. If I had followed my gut I would of been riding but instead I listened to the kind of waffle I have read on here, when the issue of overweight riders comes up why do people who obviously dont have a weight problem even post!!!
I am not mean to my horse at all; I have a lot of respect and love for him, so why should I be ridiculed because I am overweight  being fat isnt a lifestyle choice, its something that happens to you the same as ocd kicks in on some people, Or  even depression. 
As for long term health issues, We all know of a horror story where a dressage horse has a breakdown after years of training... Someone even said to me as they advance it's to be expected that they develop problems. Should we all start flinging stones at Carl Hester! it happens in every discipline. And no matter how fluffy we might like to treat our horses some are bought to do a job and be worked to the end of their limits. 
This is me when I first got Nas 

http://youtu.be/Nanm06LnHB8

Four years later

http://youtu.be/42p4qcpQI3Y

And this one just because, I think it shows the partnership between horse and rider isnt all about fluffy bunny slippers 

http://www.nowness.com/day/2010/9/2/nacho-figueras-by-matthew-donaldson

Click to expand...

Your horse is unsound in the first clip. He is swishing his tail continuously in the second. He is clearly struggling with your weight. I am sorry, but it is obvious.


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## Wagtail (15 June 2011)

ozpoz said:



			Sorry, papa~Frita I don't go with the 20% being ok, long term.
But I've said all this before.
		
Click to expand...

I personally think one sixth is a far better measurement, but will accept the research of 20% being acceptable, especially when we see that some people are riding horses and they are almost a third of their weight when you include tack. Maybe we have to accept that it could be worse!

It should also be a percentage of the horse's ideal weight and not their 'overweight'.


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## bugbee717 (15 June 2011)

Wagtail did you read that report, you seem to be missing that the report was done to see if the relation of cannon bone and loin size has any baring on the carrying ability of a horse, not the carry ability of the horse.


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## bugbee717 (15 June 2011)

Based on your one sixth, my 3 year old son with tack is too heavy to ride our 11.2 dartmoor hill pony. He weighs 2 stone 11 pound, so with tack boots etc he is well over weight. Some how I feel not. Maybe one sixth for a tb type, I use that in a loose term, but not native ponies/ horses or heavier set ponies. As the research does state bigger loins and wider cannon bone, have a better ability we weight.


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## Chavhorse (15 June 2011)

Diet 2 Ride - Kudos for having the balls to post the video's and also for your fantastic weight loss so far (I have looked at your blog and you seem to be doing brilliantly).  Nas looks like a complete superstar and I hope you get to the point soon where you and he can be a happy partnership.

From my part I will admit I never have been and never will be a fairy and have always owned horses that tend to need a man or a strong woman (fall very much into the second category)never looked at anything smaller than 16.2.

However since losing 15 kilos in the last 5 months I have to say I now ride much better and my balance is 100% improved, it also means for the first time ever I am currently riding a 15hh Appaloosa and to be honest at 5ft 6 it feels better and my instructor says it suits me better so my new horse will be a max of 15.2.

The 12 stone thing is a bit of a non argument my instructor weighs 75 kilos (almost 12 stone)add to that a western saddle and pad (no idea how much they weigh but my god they are heavy!) and he regularly rides the same 15hh Appy that I do, and a 15.2 QH X TB.

Over in Holland the max weights in Riding schools is between 85 (13.3 Stone) and 90 (14.1 Stone) but then most people here are very very tall and big boned.


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## firstponyMinto (15 June 2011)

I must say that I found diet 2 ride's last link really painful to watch, poor horses mouth! & his stressed out eyes.......


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## Wagtail (15 June 2011)

bugbee717 said:



			Based on your one sixth, my 3 year old son with tack is too heavy to ride our 11.2 dartmoor hill pony. He weighs 2 stone 11 pound, so with tack boots etc he is well over weight. Some how I feel not. Maybe one sixth for a tb type, I use that in a loose term, but not native ponies/ horses or heavier set ponies. As the research does state bigger loins and wider cannon bone, have a better ability we weight.
		
Click to expand...

That isan excellent point. I do think bone measurement is also a good guide tp weight carrying ability. Also, I suspect that little pony's can probably carry a slightly larger percentage of their body weight than a taller horse. You only have to look at gymnasts and how strong they are for ther size, and ants can carry 20 times their own weight.


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## tallyho! (15 June 2011)

jemima_too said:



			So presumably, and I'm happy to be corrected, having a larger area to attach larger muscles would make them less weak?
		
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Ummm, I'm now thoroughly confused (doesn't take much ) I thought I said attachments points were irrelevant and I also said bone thickness is irrelevant. Actual attachment points (entheses) are very weak structures in the body. 

I was trying to say it had everything to do with the horse as a whole and calculation made up to determine ability to carry any weight needs to be taken with a pinch of common-sense.



jemima_too said:



			I stand to be corrected again as I'm guessing what PF intended but the words "chunkier draught type" were used to indicate just that, ie an Ardennes or similar, not "an obese horse".
		
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Ok, I get it now. I'm glad she meant that or I'd be having kittens....


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## Tinseltoes (15 June 2011)

firstponyMinto said:



			I must say that I found diet 2 ride's last link really painful to watch, poor horses mouth! & his stressed out eyes.......
		
Click to expand...

Not trying to be be mean or nasty or anything,but "diet to ride" you can clearly see you were much too heavy for that horse in your video.Good luck on your weight loss. Hes a lovely horse by the way.

Theres a video on youtube somewhere,where a woman who is massively huge,trying to get on a SMALL ponio.

Oh before I forget,I wanted to add that " Muscle" weighs heavier than fat.Someone can be lean but weigh heavier than a bigger person. Look at these body building women for example.


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## bugbee717 (15 June 2011)

Muscle and fat weigh the same, fat just takes up more space, if you had a pound of fat and a pound of muscle you would have more fat than muscle, which is why body builders are trimmer and a fat person, but can weigh the same.


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## Wagtail (15 June 2011)

bugbee717 said:



			Muscle and fat weigh the same, fat just takes up more space, if you had a pound of fat and a pound of muscle you would have more fat than muscle, which is why body builders are trimmer and a fat person, but can weigh the same.
		
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Which is exactly what she said!


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## Wagtail (15 June 2011)

marmalade76 said:



Inappropriate  links/content removed.

Click to expand...

Poor horses. If a person is happy being obese and are otherwise healthy and fit then I don't have a problem wth it. It is their choice. However, there are some things that physical size prevents you from being able to do. I am five foot ten and weigh ten stone. I would not ride ponies that were not very well built and at least six times my weight with agood amount of bone. I would LOVE to ride ponies. I prefer them to horses. My ideal size horse is around 16 - 16.3 hh, but I prefer smaller. However, due to my weight and height, this is the size horse that I buy and ride. I think that being obese means that some people may have to accept that they cannot ride at all. They have that choice. A horse does not. Even if someone is obese through drugs or food addiction, that is no reason to inflict that burden on their horse. Luckily, the people in my life who are obese and horsey, do not do that. I am shocked and stunned at some of the videos linked to in this thread. How can a person do that to their horse? Shocking. Why not use horse riding as a great motivator to lose the weight. Work out what weight your horse can comfortably carry (and stop kidding yourselves they are happy carrying you!) then riding can be the reward for losing the weight.

Please note that I am not referring to all those heavy, but adequately horsed people out there. People coming on this thread and saying they are 12 stone etc. You are in a different league! Don't worry about it.


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## darkhorse123 (15 June 2011)

Wagtail said:



			Poor horses. If a person is happy being obese and are otherwise healthy and fit then I don't have a problem wth it. It is their choice. However, there are some things that physical size prevents you from being able to do. I am five foot ten and weigh ten stone. I would not ride ponies that were not very well built and at least six times my weight with agood amount of bone. I would LOVE to ride ponies. I prefer them to horses. My ideal size horse is around 16 - 16.3 hh, but I prefer smaller. However, due to my weight and height, this is the size horse that I buy and ride. I think that being obese means that some people may have to accept that they cannot ride at all. They have that choice. A horse does not. Even if someone is obese through drugs or food addiction, that is no reason to inflict that burden on their horse. Luckily, the people in my life who are obese and horsey, do not do that. I am shocked and stunned at some of the videos linked to in this thread. How can a person do that to their horse? Shocking. Why not use horse riding as a great motivator to lose the weight. Work out what weight your horse can comfortably carry (and stop kidding yourselves they are happy carrying you!) then riding can be the reward for losing the weight.

Please note that I am not referring to all those heavy, but adequately horsed people out there. People coming on this thread and saying they are 12 stone etc. You are in a different league! Don't worry about it.
		
Click to expand...



Totally agree - poor poor horses and the lady who "liked" that last video showing a poor horse in total agony and distress - unbelievable


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## Tinseltoes (15 June 2011)

Poor horses on those videos.


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## marmalade76 (15 June 2011)

Wagtail said:



			Poor horses. If a person is happy being obese and are otherwise healthy and fit then I don't have a problem wth it. It is their choice. However, there are some things that physical size prevents you from being able to do. I am five foot ten and weigh ten stone. I would not ride ponies that were not very well built and at least six times my weight with agood amount of bone. I would LOVE to ride ponies. I prefer them to horses. My ideal size horse is around 16 - 16.3 hh, but I prefer smaller. However, due to my weight and height, this is the size horse that I buy and ride. I think that being obese means that some people may have to accept that they cannot ride at all. They have that choice. A horse does not. Even if someone is obese through drugs or food addiction, that is no reason to inflict that burden on their horse. Luckily, the people in my life who are obese and horsey, do not do that. I am shocked and stunned at some of the videos linked to in this thread. How can a person do that to their horse? Shocking. Why not use horse riding as a great motivator to lose the weight. Work out what weight your horse can comfortably carry (and stop kidding yourselves they are happy carrying you!) then riding can be the reward for losing the weight.

Please note that I am not referring to all those heavy, but adequately horsed people out there. People coming on this thread and saying they are 12 stone etc. You are in a different league! Don't worry about it.
		
Click to expand...

!00% agree.


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## soulfull (15 June 2011)

Wagtail said:



			Your horse is unsound in the first clip. He is swishing his tail continuously in the second. He is clearly struggling with your weight. I am sorry, but it is obvious.
		
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I too am sorry but I noticed exactly the same.  He cannot trot!  

While I do agree that weight problems are similar to depression etc, and I really do feel for you but it is still down to the individual to do something about it.
In your case I am so glad you are not riding BUT I would not ride him until you are less than 18st and then make sure you get him checked out

Lots of luck with trying to lose the weight XX


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## PapaFrita (15 June 2011)

marmalade76 said:



Inappropriate  links/content removed.

Click to expand...

Sorry, but I think it's unkind and unnecessary to pluck someone's personal videos off Youtube to use as an example in this way.


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## darkhorse123 (15 June 2011)

sharon1959 said:



			Dissagree as the doctors told me different and the nurse also told me it too.
		
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Muscle weighs more than fat which is why when you exercise you can look like your loosing weight as in gettign thinner but actually weigh more


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## Tinseltoes (15 June 2011)

darkhorse123 said:



			Muscle weighs more than fat which is why when you exercise you can look like your loosing weight as in gettign thinner but actually weigh more
		
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Thats what I said in the 1st place.For example I have gone down 1 and 1/2 clothes sizes.Doctors said Id gained a little bit but to keep the walking up.


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## Spudlet (15 June 2011)

To be a bit pedantic...

1kg of muscle weighs exactly the same as 1kg of fat - both weigh 1kg. However muscle is a denser tissue, so 1kg of muscle takes up less space than 1kg of fat. But both are the same weight - 1kg.


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## Chavhorse (15 June 2011)

sharon1959 said:



			Thats what I said in the 1st place.For example I have gone down 1 and 1/2 clothes sizes.Doctors said Id gained a little bit but to keep the walking up.
		
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Ditto this as well I have I originally lost 15 kilos put on a couple of kilos but gone down another dress size, doc says it is muscle and toning and not to worry.


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## darkhorse123 (15 June 2011)

Spudlet said:



			To be a bit pedantic...

1kg of muscle weighs exactly the same as 1kg of fat - both weigh 1kg. However muscle is a denser tissue, so 1kg of muscle takes up less space than 1kg of fat. But both are the same weight - 1kg.
		
Click to expand...


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## Megibo (15 June 2011)

Wagtail said:



			Your horse is unsound in the first clip. He is swishing his tail continuously in the second. He is clearly struggling with your weight. I am sorry, but it is obvious.
		
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i think the last video is awful to watch!! 

have to say, i'm overweight myself-but agree  that horse in the clips is clearly unhappy and was horrified to see her onboard. 

i'm losing two stone myself but i'm only two stone overweight and my horse doesnt have problems carrying me...yet-but what if i got bigger? she's only 13.3

i know how hard it is to lose weight so i wish her lots of luck and hope she does really well with her weight loss but she just shouldnt be riding *that* horse til she has lost weight and if she really wants to ride she should use him as motivation...


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## charlie76 (15 June 2011)

I am happy for you to guess what weight I am! People often assume I am lighter than I am however, I am quite fit and ride between 2 and 6 horses a day (schooling and jumping). I do have a big horse at 18hh but I would also be happy to ride a 13.2hh pony for a while. 
My husband is 13.5. stone and I banned him from riding our 16.3hh TB until the horse had built up much more muscle as although he would carry him happily, his weight made the TB unlevel.
I can't get my head round anyone that thinks its ok to ride when very overweight. In no other sport ( and this is a sport) do you see overweight people. But it seems readily accepted in this sport.
I run a riding school and we have to cater for over weight people, although the horses 'carry' the riders it doesn't mean that they are coming to know harm. Every one of our weight carriers have to have treatment for sore backs very regulary. 

Here is some pics for my guess the weight!





On my 18hh boy






On my 16hh horse

http://www.youtube.com/user/Zoebbz05#p/u/19/RqpSVbzZPPU
And on my 16.3hh TB


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## Megibo (15 June 2011)

charlie76 said:



			I can't get my head round anyone that thinks its ok to ride when very overweight. In no other sport ( and this is a sport) do you see overweight people. But it seems readily accepted in this sport.
		
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no comment on guessing your weight but your 18hh boy is lovely!  

you have a point there though, i think its because in other sports you have to be fit and support yourself if that makes sense.
with horseriding i suppose people are happy to let the horse carry them about and they think they don't have to do much work etc, thats one theory...


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## Chavhorse (15 June 2011)

charlie76 said:



			I am happy for you to guess what weight I am! People often assume I am lighter than I am however, I am quite fit and ride between 2 and 6 horses a day (schooling and jumping). I do have a big horse at 18hh but I would also be happy to ride a 13.2hh pony for a while. 
My husband is 13.5. stone and I banned him from riding our 16.3hh TB until the horse had built up much more muscle as although he would carry him happily, his weight made the TB unlevel.
I can't get my head round anyone that thinks its ok to ride when very overweight. In no other sport ( and this is a sport) do you see overweight people. But it seems readily accepted in this sport.
I run a riding school and we have to cater for over weight people, although the horses 'carry' the riders it doesn't mean that they are coming to know harm. Every one of our weight carriers have to have treatment for sore backs very regulary. 

Here is some pics for my guess the weight!





On my 18hh boy






On my 16hh horse

http://www.youtube.com/user/Zoebbz05#p/u/19/RqpSVbzZPPU
And on my 16.3hh TB
		
Click to expand...

Charlie no idea at all of your weight but you look balanced and the horses look happy and comfortable, in total contrast to  some of the video's linked to this thread.


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## marmalade76 (15 June 2011)

PapaFrita said:



			Sorry, but I think it's unkind and unnecessary to pluck someone's personal videos off Youtube to use as an example in this way.
		
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I disagree, she has posted vidoes of herself on the net for the world to see and is, therefore, fair game.


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## M_G (15 June 2011)

sidesaddlegirl
I have to say that you look very elegant


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## jenki13 (15 June 2011)

charlie76 said:



			I am happy for you to guess what weight I am! People often assume I am lighter than I am however, I am quite fit and ride between 2 and 6 horses a day (schooling and jumping). I do have a big horse at 18hh but I would also be happy to ride a 13.2hh pony for a while. 
My husband is 13.5. stone and I banned him from riding our 16.3hh TB until the horse had built up much more muscle as although he would carry him happily, his weight made the TB unlevel.
I can't get my head round anyone that thinks its ok to ride when very overweight. In no other sport ( and this is a sport) do you see overweight people. But it seems readily accepted in this sport.
I run a riding school and we have to cater for over weight people, although the horses 'carry' the riders it doesn't mean that they are coming to know harm. Every one of our weight carriers have to have treatment for sore backs very regulary.
		
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Im guessing about the 11stone marker? you look about the same weight as me (but taller). 
I know that I am never going to be 9stone, the lightest I've been in about 8yrs is 8stone 4 & although a "healthy" weight for my height I can tell you I was far from healthy as I could barely walk. So 10-10.5 stone is my target & I feel there wouldn't be many horses out there that would object to that weight.. & possibly a few strong ponies for things like hacking.


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## EAST KENT (15 June 2011)

diet2ride said:



			I try to stay clear of these kinds of threads... Purely because I don't want a public flogging. And I also think most of them are started just to cause a witch hunt. 
What does annoy me though when you put into a search engine how much weight can a horse carry you get directed to these kind of links. Where you get a lot of personal opinions and not much in the way of real answers, and as for the science bit... Ive also read that report and tbh I don't think it stands up. No one knows for sure if my horse will be sorer going out for a 4hr hack with a 9st rider or me riding him for 15mins. 
For me personally there is a limit at 25st I couldn't ride. At a fitter 23st yes I can walk around and do a few strides of trot. I have taken the personal decision to wait until I am less than 300lbs before I get back on him, there is no science in this I just know in my heart I will feel more comfortable. If I happen to get there and still feel an inadequate rider I shall wait until I have lost more.
I spent the last four years of my life searching the Internet for an answer that isn't here. If I had followed my gut I would of been riding but instead I listened to the kind of waffle I have read on here, when the issue of overweight riders comes up why do people who obviously dont have a weight problem even post!!!
I am not mean to my horse at all; I have a lot of respect and love for him, so why should I be ridiculed because I am overweight  being fat isnt a lifestyle choice, its something that happens to you the same as ocd kicks in on some people, Or  even depression. 
As for long term health issues, We all know of a horror story where a dressage horse has a breakdown after years of training... Someone even said to me as they advance it's to be expected that they develop problems. Should we all start flinging stones at Carl Hester! it happens in every discipline. And no matter how fluffy we might like to treat our horses some are bought to do a job and be worked to the end of their limits. 
This is me when I first got Nas 

http://youtu.be/Nanm06LnHB8

Four years later

http://youtu.be/42p4qcpQI3Y

And this one just because, I think it shows the partnership between horse and rider isnt all about fluffy bunny slippers 

http://www.nowness.com/day/2010/9/2/nacho-figueras-by-matthew-donaldson

Click to expand...

YOU need bariatric surgery,for your own health and longitivity.You will then find just how little you actually need to eat,been there myself,but never as overweight as you.Your horse is struggling..you must be struggling too,get it fixed girl..you`ll never believe the difference it will make to your life.


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## Elsbells (15 June 2011)

Wagtail said:



			Poor horses. If a person is happy being obese and are otherwise healthy and fit then I don't have a problem wth it. It is their choice. However, there are some things that physical size prevents you from being able to do. I am five foot ten and weigh ten stone. I would not ride ponies that were not very well built and at least six times my weight with agood amount of bone. I would LOVE to ride ponies. I prefer them to horses. My ideal size horse is around 16 - 16.3 hh, but I prefer smaller. However, due to my weight and height, this is the size horse that I buy and ride. I think that being obese means that some people may have to accept that they cannot ride at all. They have that choice. A horse does not. Even if someone is obese through drugs or food addiction, that is no reason to inflict that burden on their horse. Luckily, the people in my life who are obese and horsey, do not do that. I am shocked and stunned at some of the videos linked to in this thread. How can a person do that to their horse? Shocking. Why not use horse riding as a great motivator to lose the weight. Work out what weight your horse can comfortably carry (and stop kidding yourselves they are happy carrying you!) then riding can be the reward for losing the weight.

Please note that I am not referring to all those heavy, but adequately horsed people out there. People coming on this thread and saying they are 12 stone etc. You are in a different league! Don't worry about it.
		
Click to expand...

I was so, so shocked that I couldn't post!
Thankyou wagtail as you have said what I couldn't.

Sorry diet2, but no, you should't ride your horse even though he's so lovely. Have you thought about a gastric band? We have a few ladies that have successfully had one in our town. They even have a support group and it is very successful too. 

You are not happy with your weight are you, it has disabled you and stopped you from enjoying life as you should?
My OH suffers with MS and can't do, so I know how you feel and it's just awful. At least you can get better and it is possible.


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## PapaFrita (15 June 2011)

marmalade76 said:



			I disagree, she has posted vidoes of herself on the net for the world to see and is, therefore, fair game.
		
Click to expand...

How exactly are they necessary or helpful to this thread? 
Would you be OK with someone lifting your vids in order to criticise your riding?


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## Chloe..x (15 June 2011)

diet2ride said:



			I try to stay clear of these kinds of threads... Purely because I don't want a public flogging. And I also think most of them are started just to cause a witch hunt. 
What does annoy me though when you put into a search engine how much weight can a horse carry you get directed to these kind of links. Where you get a lot of personal opinions and not much in the way of real answers, and as for the science bit... Ive also read that report and tbh I don't think it stands up. No one knows for sure if my horse will be sorer going out for a 4hr hack with a 9st rider or me riding him for 15mins. 
For me personally there is a limit at 25st I couldn't ride. At a fitter 23st yes I can walk around and do a few strides of trot. I have taken the personal decision to wait until I am less than 300lbs before I get back on him, there is no science in this I just know in my heart I will feel more comfortable. If I happen to get there and still feel an inadequate rider I shall wait until I have lost more.
I spent the last four years of my life searching the Internet for an answer that isn't here. If I had followed my gut I would of been riding but instead I listened to the kind of waffle I have read on here, when the issue of overweight riders comes up why do people who obviously dont have a weight problem even post!!!
I am not mean to my horse at all; I have a lot of respect and love for him, so why should I be ridiculed because I am overweight  being fat isnt a lifestyle choice, its something that happens to you the same as ocd kicks in on some people, Or  even depression. 
As for long term health issues, We all know of a horror story where a dressage horse has a breakdown after years of training... Someone even said to me as they advance it's to be expected that they develop problems. Should we all start flinging stones at Carl Hester! it happens in every discipline. And no matter how fluffy we might like to treat our horses some are bought to do a job and be worked to the end of their limits. 
This is me when I first got Nas 

http://youtu.be/Nanm06LnHB8

Four years later

http://youtu.be/42p4qcpQI3Y

And this one just because, I think it shows the partnership between horse and rider isnt all about fluffy bunny slippers 

http://www.nowness.com/day/2010/9/2/nacho-figueras-by-matthew-donaldson

Click to expand...


Your horse is clearly unsound in the first video and the second is horrible to watch. He is clearly struggling and I think you should give him a few months off, lose a few stone and both he and you will feel the benefit so much more and you will not only be happier in yourself but so will your horse.


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## marmalade76 (15 June 2011)

PapaFrita said:



			How exactly are they necessary or helpful to this thread? 
Would you be OK with someone lifting your vids in order to criticise your riding?
		
Click to expand...

If I had personally posted them on the net for all the world to see, then yes!

And I have not criticised her riding at all, I actually thinK she is a good rider, but she'd be a better rider and her horses would perform better for her if she lost some weight. 

I do, however, thinK her horses are not big enough for her and she is foolish and unfair to her horse by jumping on frozen ground.


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## PapaFrita (15 June 2011)

marmalade76 said:



			If I had personally posted them on the net for all the world to see, then yes!

And I have not criticised her riding at all, I actually thinK she is a good rider, but she'd be a better rider and her horses would perform better for her if she lost some weight. 

I do, however, thinK her horses are not big enough for her and she is foolish and unfair to her horse by jumping on frozen ground.
		
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For a start, the jumping on frozen ground isn't relevant in the least to this thread. If we knew her weight, that of the horse and his level of fitness, perhaps if we knew how often she rides and/or jumps, then the vids would be relevant. As it is, they don't help and you will have upset some stranger (because they ALWAYS find out) for no purpose other than for others to tut and shake their heads.


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## Becca-84 (15 June 2011)

bugbee717 said:



			sorry if this sounds harse. I have ten horses/ponies, 3 children. I also work, if you think I am unfit or lazy feel free do a week with me you will not last a day. I have a very busy life. when I have been the weight watcher/ slimming world it is all to much food. NOt forgetting the hypnothephy/ accupunchere (sp). Some people can not lose weight like other people. I have no gall bladder and CAN NOT eat fat, it works in the same way diet tablets do, IE you eat fat you poo it out, quick and fast and it is not nice trust me. 


Just because I am fat it does not mean that I am not trying to lose weight, so whilst you make statements like this just stop for one moment and think.


I ride my hafflinger he is 14.3hh for 5 foot 11 I have very short legs, this horse can lift me off the ground with his head, he has gone from 700kg plus to 487kg, I know what I weigh. I would do seeing as a weigh myself each day. I currently weigh 20 stone 2 pounds up 4 from yesterday. 


so whilst you moan and bit33h about weight, think about us fat people, do you think for one second that I will let my children get like this hmmm no, a life which is not the same as other people, no I dont think so.

get a grip stop bashing that fat person cause they are an east target.
NOT EVERYONE IS THE SAME.
		
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 OMG I'm sorry, but as the owner of a 14.3hh Haffy, there is NO WAY anyone of 20stone would be riding him! My sister's BF is a rugby player and probably weighs about 13/14st - I wouldn't even let him ride my Haffy!

I also have a 15hh Breton x Andalucian - she is a chunky girl and more of a "weight-carrier" but when my dad tried her out recently (weighing 14st ish??) I could see she was struggling and even he (non-horsey) recognised the problem and got off. 

I understand that you have health issues affecting your health but I still can't help thinking "poor pony" when reading your post 

I believe that when someone decides to take up a sport like riding, you in doing so, have to take on responsibilities, not just for your horses health, well-being and fitness, but for your own. Sometimes we just have to accept that there are some things in life we cannot do. 

I agree that 12st for a lot of breeds, is too low, but there needs to be a balance. Fit, toned and balanced is far preferable, and I cannot see how anyone weighing 20st can be any of those things. (Possibly contraversial, but I'm not trying to offend anyone, I just honestly don't see how it is possible)


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## Lady La La (15 June 2011)

I dont think saying at 15-20 stone, you shouldn't ride is actually true...

Physically, yes you'll probably find it a struggle but you just have to chose your horse carefully, and realise you/your horses limitations.

As an example, these are pictures of my friends horse, I'm sure she wont mind me using her lovely boy as an example. I have NO idea if his owner would ever dream of putting 15 - 20 stone on his back, but if he were mine and fit enough, I wouldn't hesitate. He makes the local suffolk punch look like a shetland pony...


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## lexiedhb (15 June 2011)

Charlie- around 13 stone- you HAVE to be seriously tall to not make you giganta hoss look even bigger.
Mate of mine is 5ft 9- 13 ish stone and a size 12.

Wagtail- surely it is more to do with your height that you think you should ride 16-16.3's as a weight bearing chunky 14.2 cob would not bat en eyelid at your weight.

This thread seems to be of extremes. I imagine it is very difficult to balance at 20 stone, which I think is more of a problem to a horse than the actual weight itself, and that your level of fitness would be such that anything other than walk would leave you out of breath. Personally I would rather a 16 stone balanced experienced rider ride a horse, than a 13 stone bouncy novice.

I myself am a heavier rider (although I did lose 3 stone in order to be able to ride again 18st down to 15 stone)


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## bugbee717 (15 June 2011)

marmalade76 said:



Inappropriate  links/content removed.

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having just looked at this, I really dont think it is fair to comment on these. Her page is very hard to read, but the one thing I can read is that she is 15 years old. As a parent it is not fair to this child that we judge her. I am sure when she sees this, I am she will, she will be mortified.


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## marmalade76 (15 June 2011)

15??

Well, if she were my child, I wouldn't allow her to ride until she'd lost some weight.


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## Hovis_and_SidsMum (15 June 2011)

marmalade76 said:



			I disagree, she has posted vidoes of herself on the net for the world to see and is, therefore, fair game.
		
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But she didn't post them on this thread.   So I don't think that does make her "fair game" to use to discuss this particular issue.

That said as a larger fat arsed rider I would like to thank this thread for making me but down the sandwich and "enjoy" a salad for lunch.  I'm sure Hovis will be eternally grateful later.....


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## jenki13 (15 June 2011)

marmalade76 said:



Inappropriate  links/content removed.

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To be honest I'd rather put this girl on my horses back than some of the lighter riders I've seen recently! I know which of them would cause more problems for my horse


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## PaddyMonty (15 June 2011)

Hovis_and_SidsMum said:



			said as a larger fat arsed rider I would like to thank this thread for making me but down the sandwich and "enjoy" a salad for lunch.  I'm sure Hovis will be eternally grateful later.....
		
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Only if you give him the remains of said sandwich 
What this thread demonstrates very well is that a few are a bit to precious with their horses, a few are in serious denial about the impact thay are having on thier horse and the majority have a more balanced, sensible view.

Only two things wind me about about all this....
1) people saying they weigh x stone but ride light. Now I know its a long time since my school days but I'm sure the laws of physics haven't changed. If you are x stone then assuming you ride in balance that is the weight the horse will experience. Certainly you can make it more difficult to carry the same weight, you cant magically remove 2 stone from the horses back just by the way you ride.
2) Yet again it seems acceptable to call people skinny minnies but not the other way round.  Serious double standard.

Oops forgot to asnwer the OP's original question
Height - 5'10"
Weight - max 10st 1lb, min 9st 6lbs, male
What i ride ...


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## Hovis_and_SidsMum (15 June 2011)

JunoXV said:



			Oops forgot to asnwer the OP's original question
Height - 5'10"
Weight - max 10st 1lb, min 9st 6lbs, male
What i ride ...





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Good god!!
You are SO over horsed.
How do you control that beast?!! 

ETA - gloomily realises you weigh about the same as one of my thighs.  Celery stick anyone?


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## PaddyMonty (15 June 2011)

Hovis_and_SidsMum said:



			Good god!!
You are SO over horsed.
How do you control that beast?!! 

Click to expand...

I'd rather pick an argument with a 17.2 4 yo wramblood than that little treasure 
Just for the record I was event fit then so 9st 6.  Put on a few lbs when I went back to pure SJ


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## Onyxia (15 June 2011)

marmalade76 said:



			I disagree, she has posted vidoes of herself on the net for the world to see and is, therefore, fair game.
		
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Her profile says she is 16-you are picking on a child.
One that,might I add,is not even a member here and has NOT posted her videos for those lacking in basic compassion and decency to rip apart.


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## Onyxia (15 June 2011)

bugbee717 said:



			Muscle and fat weigh the same, fat just takes up more space, if you had a pound of fat and a pound of muscle you would have more fat than muscle, which is why body builders are trimmer and a fat person, but can weigh the same.
		
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 If I took a pound of brick it would weight he same as a pound of feathers 

Fat is light(by comparison) and takes up a lot of room,while muscle is heavy and compact which is why a 5ft5,10 stone fit runner will look very different to a 5ft5 10 stone office worker 

Because it is more dense,muscle does weight more- when you compare a set volume of fat to muscle,the muscle will weigh more.


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## marmalade76 (15 June 2011)

Yunalesca said:



			Her profile says she is 16-you are picking on a child.
One that,might I add,is not even a member here and has NOT posted her videos for those lacking in basic compassion and decency to rip apart.
		
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What??? Where have I 'ripped her apart'? I simply pointed out that she is over weight!

And as for compassion, I have plenty, for her horses!

If she does see this thread and it prompts her to do something about her weight then that will be a GOOD thing, not only for her horses but for her own health and wellbeing too.


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## Onyxia (15 June 2011)

marmalade76 said:



			What??? Where have I 'ripped her apart'? I simply pointed out that she is over weight!

And as for compassion, I have plenty, for her horses!

If she does see this thread and it prompts her to do something about her weight then that will be a GOOD thing, not only for her horses but for her own health and wellbeing too.
		
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You went and sought out videos of a young girl who is over weight.
You then posted them on a forum that seems to have perma PMS of late on a thread that has allready gone a bit OTT and threw them out there - are you seriously asking me to belive you are too thick to know what you did?

You yourself may not have said anything too nasty outright- but you _knew_ those posting after you bloody well would!
We are talking about a very young girl,they are NOT mature enough to deal with the level of abuse that has allready started and wil only get worse as the thread continues- and it WILL continue.
It will also be dragged up again and again and agin over the next few years- this forum has gone downhill far too much


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## PapaFrita (15 June 2011)

marmalade76 said:



			What??? Where have I 'ripped her apart'? I simply pointed out that she is over weight!

And as for compassion, I have plenty, for her horses!

If she does see this thread and it prompts her to do something about her weight then that will be a GOOD thing, not only for her horses but for her own health and wellbeing too.
		
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There are a zillion better ways to help someone. If that were my daughter, I'd be extremely angry with you right now. Your objective was not to help because you have no idea if she will even read this thread. Your motive was just to point and sneer.
Now, if you would be so kind, could you answer my earlier question as to the relevance of said videos on this thread given we don't know how much she weighs, how much the horses weigh, how fit they are or how often she rides or jumps and for how long. And even if we DID know, it's not your or my place to judge and censure her, and even less so on a public forum without her consent.


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## Wagtail (15 June 2011)

Yunalesca said:



			You went and sought out videos of a young girl who is over weight.
You then posted them on a forum that seems to have perma PMS of late on a thread that has allready gone a bit OTT and threw them out there - are you seriously asking me to belive you are too thick to know what you did?

You yourself may not have said anything too nasty outright- but you _knew_ those posting after you bloody well would!
We are talking about a very young girl,they are NOT mature enough to deal with the level of abuse that has allready started and wil only get worse as the thread continues- and it WILL continue.
It will also be dragged up again and again and agin over the next few years- this forum has gone downhill far too much 

Click to expand...

At sixteen I wold have been old enough to know if I was being cruel to my horses, and so should her parents. 

Goodness me, if I was her parent I would do my utmost to make sure she did not make a spectacle of herself on the internet. It is not a all obvious that she is only 16. I thought she was around 25. Her parents should be protecting her. They are responsible for feeding her too much too, as she is overweight even as a small child. It is usually not the childs fault that they are overweight. IMO it is child abuse to let their daughter get like that. And it is bad that they did not educate her to realise that she is putting her little horses under too much strain.


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## marmalade76 (15 June 2011)

PapaFrita said:



			There are a zillion better ways to help someone. If that were my daughter, I'd be extremely angry with you right now. Your objective was not to help because you have no idea if she will even read this thread. Your motive was just to point and sneer.
Now, if you would be so kind, could you answer my earlier question as to the relevance of said videos on this thread given we don't know how much she weighs, how much the horses weigh, how fit they are or how often she rides or jumps and for how long. And even if we DID know, it's not your or my place to judge and censure her, and even less so on a public forum without her consent.
		
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This tread is entitled 'how heavy is too heavy' and IMO, this girl is too heavy to be doing the things she is doing on her horses.

Her parents may well be furious to read this, but they also have a lot to answer for. I would not allow my children to get that size!

I did not seek out vids of fat riders, I found this when searching for vids of local comp venues and was shocked to see someone of this size riding, let alone out competing and hunting.

And since when did we need the permission of the subjects of all youtube vids we post links to? Blue Peter filmed me when I was out riding a few years ago, they didn't ask my permission to put me and my pony on national TV, they just did it.


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## marmalade76 (15 June 2011)

Wagtail said:



			At sixteen I wold have been old enough to know if I was being cruel to my horses, and so should her parents. 

Goodness me, if I was her parent I would do my utmost to make sure she did not make a spectacle of herself on the internet. It is not a all obvious that she is only 16. I thought she was around 25. Her parents should be protecting her. They are responsible for feeding her too much too, as she is overweight even as a small child. It is usually not the childs fault that they are overweight. IMO it is child abuse to let their daughter get like that. And it is bad that they did not educate her to realise that she is putting her little horses under too much strain.
		
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Well said!


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## Wagtail (15 June 2011)

I think that a distincton needs to be made between 'abuse' of people for being fat, which in my opinion is a completely different thing to what is going on in this thread. People are not outraged by people being fat. They are not picking on people for being fat. They are outraged at people putting too much weight on their horses! This could be an obese woman riding or it could be a huge man. It doesn't matter. People are being far too prickly.


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## bugbee717 (15 June 2011)

We get asked at local shows if it is ok to photo or video our children, we sign consent forms also at school, this is to protect our children. As I have said before as a fat parent, my oh is not nor are my parents, I would never allow my children to get fat.  I am bringing them up to understand what they can and can't eat, this is due to medical issue on my part. Which they to will deal with later in life. No parent wants a fat child, it is shocking when at school the parents get letters telling them there child is out of range.


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## lexiedhb (15 June 2011)

I find it odd that anyone would use video/pics (that are not their own), that are obviously personal to someone- especially to illustrate a point in a debate which the owner of said pic/vids is playing no part!


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## Lady La La (15 June 2011)

lexiedhb said:



			I find it odd that anyone would use video/pics (that are not their own), that are obviously personal to someone- especially to illustrate a point in a debate which the owner of said pic/vids is playing no part!
		
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I guess that's what I did with the pic of my friends horse a few pages back


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## lexiedhb (15 June 2011)

Lady La La said:



			I guess that's what I did with the pic of my friends horse a few pages back 

Click to expand...

Yes La la but this is your friend- not some random child that has been found by typing "fat horse rider" into youtube


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## Wagtail (15 June 2011)

lexiedhb said:



			I find it odd that anyone would use video/pics (that are not their own), that are obviously personal to someone- especially to illustrate a point in a debate which the owner of said pic/vids is playing no part!
		
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You can make a video viewable only to your friends or those you give permission to. Everything else is public. It tells you your video is public. I think anyone with a public video can expect it to be used by the _public_.

And also, you can change its status at any time. She can restrict access to it any time she likes (and the links will cease to work), or remove it altogether.


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## Lady La La (15 June 2011)

lexiedhb said:



			Yes La la but this is your friend- not some random child that has been found by typing "fat horse rider" into youtube
		
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This is true! I am excused


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## lexiedhb (15 June 2011)

Wagtail said:



			You can make a video viewable only to your friends or those you give permission to. Everything else is public. It tells you your video is public. I think anyone with a public video can expect it to be used by the _public_.

And also, you can change its status at any time. She can restrict access to it any time she likes (and the links will cease to work), or remove it altogether.
		
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REALLY? still find it odd, perhaps just not something I would ever do (trawl through Youtube to find a stranger to assist in proving my point, especially a kid). Each to their own then I guess....


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## PapaFrita (15 June 2011)

marmalade76 said:



			This tread is entitled 'how heavy is too heavy' and IMO, this girl is too heavy to be doing the things she is doing on her horses.
		
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Again, HOW is it helpful? As I said;there is NO context whatsoever, so WHAT does it illustrate? We all know what overweight people look like. What exactly was your intention except to vilify? 




			Her parents may well be furious to read this, but they also have a lot to answer for. I would not allow my children to get that size!
		
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Irrelevant and none of your business. You have no idea that this child isn't on steroids or some other drug that has caused her to put on weight. All you know is that you think she's too fat and you feel sorry for her horses. And HOW exactly are you helping her OR her horses?? You're not; you're just being incredibly tactless and scornful and disguising it with your own perceived virtue by NOT being overweight.




			And since when did we need the permission of the subjects of all youtube vids we post links to? Blue Peter filmed me when I was out riding a few years ago, they didn't ask my permission to put me and my pony on national TV, they just did it.
		
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Did Blue Peter run a segment on how fat you were and use you as an example of what NOT to do to a horse?? I say again; no matter how much you would like to pretend that your intentions were altruistic, you are NOT; you are pointing and chuntering.


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## Wagtail (15 June 2011)

lexiedhb said:



			REALLY? still find it odd, perhaps just not something I would ever do (trawl through Youtube to find a stranger to assist in proving my point, especially a kid). Each to their own then I guess....
		
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I'm not saying that I would do it, but if a video is put up on the web and set to 'public' then there is nothing morally wrong with people using it to prove points etc on a forum IMO. It is not at all obvious to a passing viewer that the girl is only 16. I didn't notice. I find the fact that this girl's parents allow her to ride and actually film her, and then allow her to post them up (at the risk of possible ridicule) to be far more morally wrong. What the h*ll's wrong with them? Can't they see what she looks like and that they are opening her up to all kinds of abuse?


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## touchstone (15 June 2011)

I also feel that 20+ stones is too heavy for many horses, not that horses physically couldn't carry that weight, but all of the weight is concentrated on a small surface area - namely the panels of the saddle.  No matter how lightly a rider rides, there is still that area of pressure.  

This website has a calculation for working out how much pressure your saddle creates, the recommendation is no more than 2 pounds pressure per square inch as a maximum. http://lorienstable.com/articles/z-fitting/weight/calculate.php


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## Wagtail (15 June 2011)

touchstone said:



			I also feel that 20+ stones is too heavy for many horses, not that horses physically couldn't carry that weight, but all of the weight is concentrated on a small surface area - namely the panels of the saddle.  No matter how lightly a rider rides, there is still that area of pressure.  

This website has a calculation for working out how much pressure your saddle creates, the recommendation is no more than 2 pounds pressure per square inch as a maximum.
		
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Excellent point.


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## lexiedhb (15 June 2011)

Wagtail said:



			I'm not saying that I would do it, but if a video is put up on the web and set to 'public' then there is nothing morally wrong with people using it to prove points etc on a forum IMO. It is not at all obvious to a passing viewer that the girl is only 16. I didn't notice. I find the fact that this girl's parents allow her to ride and actually film her, and then allow her to post them up (at the risk of possible ridicule) to be far more morally wrong. What the h*ll's wrong with them? Can't they see what she looks like and that they are opening her up to all kinds of abuse?
		
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I do not follow your logic. By 16 I was perfectly capable of feeding myself- even more capable of spending every penny I had on junk food. I had to go to school, and I had a horse to do- my mother could not have altered my eating patterns even if she had wanted to, she could not have me on house arrest 24/7.


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## Wagtail (15 June 2011)

lexiedhb said:



			I do not follow your logic. By 16 I was perfectly capable of feeding myself- even more capable of spending every penny I had on junk food. I had to go to school, and I had a horse to do- my mother could not have altered my eating patterns even if she had wanted to, she could not have me on house arrest 24/7.
		
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The clips showed her riding as a small child. She was obese then too. It's all about education and habit. It's very rare you see a fat child that does not also have fat parents. It has been proved that it i not genetics. The slim presenter on the TV programme 'Embarassingly Fat Bodies', was shown to be genetically more predesposed to be fat than the fat family whose lifestyle she wascovering.


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## lexiedhb (15 June 2011)

Wagtail said:



			The clips showed her riding as a small child. She was obese then too. It's all about education and habit. It's very rare you see a fat child that does not also have fat parents. It has been proved that it i not genetics. The slim presenter on the TV programme 'Embarassingly Fat Bodies', was shown to be genetically more predesposed to be fat than the fat family whose lifestyle she wascovering.
		
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ahhhh but it does happen and for many and varied reasons, so STOP tarring every fat kid/parent with the same brush- you have NO idea if she has medical issues, or about her upbringing, but seem to think it ok to be outraged by it

- My mother is a twig, size 8/10 gym bunny- always has been. Rarely allowed junk food in the house, I was brought up on home cooking, fresh produce, healthy, exercise, etc etc. The moment i went to secondary school I ate junk- shed loads of it, some say it was a rebellion against all the healthy stuff my mum promoted, others that i was greedy, others that it is human nature to want things you have been told you can not have- the point is 
It is NOT my mothers fault i am fat
She could have done diddly squat about me becoming fat- unless she locked me up 24/7.

It always amazes me when people say things like " i will never let my kid get fat",- you may not have a choice, or slates some obese person for being lazy, uneducated, and full of excuses. These statements are usually from those who can eat pretty much anything and remain fairly slim, so they have NO idea how hard it can be for some people to actually lose weight, I know if i was the kid in the vid and saw this it would have led me to comfort eat - NOT "do something about it"


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## PapaFrita (15 June 2011)

Wagtail said:



			The clips showed her riding as a small child. She was obese then too. It's all about education and habit. It's very rare you see a fat child that does not also have fat parents. It has been proved that it i not genetics. The slim presenter on the TV programme 'Embarassingly Fat Bodies', was shown to be genetically more predesposed to be fat than the fat family whose lifestyle she wascovering.
		
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It would've been perfectly possible to continue discussing the topic at hand without resorting to posting a stranger's videos (a minor, BTW), out of any context, for others to b8tch at.


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## lexiedhb (15 June 2011)

PapaFrita said:



			It would've been perfectly possible to continue discussing the topic at hand without resorting to posting a stranger's videos (a minor, BTW), out of any context, for others to b8tch at.
		
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Which is what i was trying to say.......


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## PapaFrita (15 June 2011)

lexiedhb said:



			Which is what i was trying to say.......
		
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Cool


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## Fantasy_World (15 June 2011)

Well weight or no weight I think she looks a better rider than a lot of people I have seen over the years. Most of them folks who exaggerate their own riding abilities, over horse themselves and horsey ends up being sold.....
I have also seen and ridden with people who are slim and yet unfit, considering their 'healthy' weight. Oh yes I forgot to add yes I do carry some extra pounds. Gosh my poor, poor horses......
I also agree that it was morally wrong to post up videos of a stranger to make a point!
The point could have been made without dragging some teenager and her horse videos and photos into the argument.
As for the lady who is overweight who posted up her own videos I commend her for her bravery to do so.
She has recognised that she does have a weight issue and is doing something about it. At least she is taking part in exercise. Not like the some of the 'thin' folks I have worked with over the years who get out of breath going up stairs and even doing tasks that are about as physical as an elephant lifting up an ant!
I hope that she continues to lose weight. I think for both her sake and the horse if she continues to shed the pounds she will enjoy her horse a lot more and be able to do a lot of things. I think for an overweight rider she was balanced. 
The horse was carrying a lot of weight, even though it was a well made individual and so I do think that the lady does need to lose a lot more, but she does acknowledge this. 
Without sounding mean I did agree with previous comments about the horse's action in the first video though. The horse looked laboured in both walk and trot and was stiff in its gait, especially in its hind limb action. I would guess it was due to weight being carried but also it could have been due to the horse's own fitness levels as well.
The video of the polo pony though was horrible and imo cruel, the action on the horse's mouth was horrendous and the eyes  
As other's have already said, weight carrying ability is not just down to the size and breeding of the horse/pony but also it is affected by the fitness levels of the horse itself.
I hope the lady can gain some positivity from this thread and continue to work on her own weight and fitness levels, and of that I am sure she will  Good luck x

My own horses are stocky types that I ride. This was by choice because I do happen to like the breeds that my horses are and have ridden similar types in the past even when I was much slimmer. I do also own a tb which is ridden by someone else but when my own weight is an acceptable level for her to carry me then I would love to ride her as well. If she had been a bigger build of a tb I would not have hesitated but she is a dot and compared to my big beauties has thin legs lol. For a small tb she has carried good weights over jumps when she raced and even won with 12 stone on her back. As previously stated already tb's can comfortably carry this weight, if they didn't then we wouldn't have hunter chasing and ptp's for a start as most that partake in those events carry 12 stone and even above.
Therefore I also don't agree with 12 stone weight limits as it is absurd.
A rider should be matched to a horse based on the rider's weight, height, ability and what they want to actually do with the horse. The horse should be matched to the rider using the same formula and also taking into account the fitness level of the horse as well. 
It is not all about weight as others have said.


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## guesstimation (15 June 2011)

Interesting reading!  Ive just finally started hacking out my 12.3/13hh Dartmoor, just turned 6.  He was backed last year lightly and now I plan to actually hack him out.  I am 5 foot 4 and weigh between 9.5 and 9.10 stone depending on how kind the scales are being.  I have been worried if I would be too much for him since I got him as a 6 month old foal!  However upon riding him he is in no way struggling to carry me, in fact hes striding out in front of others and marching on as if I were not even on him.

I am slightly concerned about long term wear and tear, I would not let myself get any heavier and ride him (I actually lost half a stone so I felt happier getting on him) and I as yet wouldnt ride him out for really long hacks due to being new to this ridden stuff and the weight, though we shall see how we get on in the future, if I keep up at the gym I may shed a few more pounds for him!!


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## Spudlet (15 June 2011)

My youngest brother is a six foot tall rugby player - and he is convinced he's fat (not at all - he's just built for the second row - tall and muscular). He is convinced of this because his mates tease him. And for all that he is a real lads' lad, he is actually quite sensitive about it. Leave this girl alone - have some people on here forgotten how awful being a teenager is anyway, without coming online and realising that you are being shredded by a load of older women!? And stop using the excuse of preaching about horse welfare to cover what is really happening here - a potentially vulnerable young person being ripped to shreds with no chance of defending herself!


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## marmalade76 (15 June 2011)

Why are you so p*ssed PF? You got fat kids?


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## jenki13 (15 June 2011)

marmalade76 said:



			Why are you so p*ssed PF? You got fat kids?
		
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No but some of us might know what its like to be bullied & laughed at for different reasons.
If you didn't think that the girl/lady in the videos would be ridiculed for her weight in this discussion after comments about other users already then quite frankly maybe your to thick to be looking after a horse. (Just looking after your horses welfare here).


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## marmalade76 (15 June 2011)

Spudlet said:



			Leave this girl alone - have some people on here forgotten how awful being a teenager is anyway, without coming online and realising that you are being shredded by a load of older women!? And stop using the excuse of preaching about horse welfare to cover what is really happening here - a potentially vulnerable young person being ripped to shreds with no chance of defending herself!

Click to expand...

I didn't know her age when I posted the link, she looks like she's in her twenties to me. 

I had to contact my internet provider to comfirm that I was over 18 before I could view anything on Youtube, surely the same applies if you wish to post videos on there.


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## Spudlet (15 June 2011)

Or maybe you were one of the 'popular' kids who sat around judging and ridiculing others for their weight, or their hair colour, or because they were cleverer than you, or poorer than you, or had spots, or frzzy hair... and then when they got upset, said it was 'just a joke' or that 'you were just telling it how it is'.

Speaking as someone who was driven to attempt suicide while at school by vile little bullies, I feel rather strongly about it. And I am hugely thankful that I was at school before forums and Facebook became easily available, because if they'd been able to get me online as well as in person, I'd be long dead.

If you weren't one of those people - congratulations, you are now.


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## Fantasy_World (15 June 2011)

Spudlet said:



			Or maybe you were one of the 'popular' kids who sat around judging and ridiculing others for their weight, or their hair colour, or because they were cleverer than you, or poorer than you, or had spots, or frzzy hair... and then when they got upset, said it was 'just a joke' or that 'you were just telling it how it is'.

Speaking as someone who was driven to attempt suicide while at school by vile little bullies, I feel rather strongly about it. And I am hugely thankful that I was at school before forums and Facebook became easily available, because if they'd been able to get me online as well as in person, I'd be long dead.

If you weren't one of those people - congratulations, you are now.
		
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Spudlet I can empathise totally.
Bullies never go away..... they just age .......


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## marmalade76 (15 June 2011)

If you post stuff on the internet for the world to see, people will comment, be it polite, rude, nasty or nice, whether you like it or not.


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## Wagtail (15 June 2011)

What about the bullying of the poor horses?


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## cattysmith (15 June 2011)

Spudlet said:



			Or maybe you were one of the 'popular' kids who sat around judging and ridiculing others for their weight, or their hair colour, or because they were cleverer than you, or poorer than you, or had spots, or frzzy hair... and then when they got upset, said it was 'just a joke' or that 'you were just telling it how it is'.

Speaking as someone who was driven to attempt suicide while at school by vile little bullies, I feel rather strongly about it. And I am hugely thankful that I was at school before forums and Facebook became easily available, because if they'd been able to get me online as well as in person, I'd be long dead.

If you weren't one of those people - congratulations, you are now.
		
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Well said Spudlet.  

There are truly some vile people on this forum. It's awful to read some of the posts sometimes. Digging around the internet for videos of an overweight child and then making nasty remarks about her is pretty much as ****** as you can get.  I actually think she's rather a decent rider. I also think Diet 2 Ride must have taken some courage to post her videos. She obviously adores her horse and looks after it incredibly well.

I bet there are far more horse-faced, chinless, stuck up, bitchy, snotty, opinionated, **** speaking, people in the world of equestrianism than there are obese people. I think it's obvious that not all of these "mares" are being "covered"....


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## Wagtail (15 June 2011)

Once again people are missing the point. Nothing wrong with being fat if you are otherwise healthy and fit. But being fat is not an excuse to abuse horses! Next thing we'll know is people will be slated for being racist if they critisise a black person for being cruel.

I also know first hand what bullying is, and this isn't it. Yes it happens on here, but IMO, any person who abuses horses should be banged to rights whatever their age, weight, colour or sex.


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## jenki13 (15 June 2011)

Wagtail said:



			What about the bullying of the poor horses?
		
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Yeh because they look like they are in pain  & looking at some of her other videos she doesn't even look that big.. she probably weighs a darn sight less than some people on here seem to think.

(Jumping on frozen ground is completely different scenario & off topic)


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## Wagtail (15 June 2011)

jenki13 said:



			Yeh because they look like they are in pain  & looking at some of her other videos she doesn't even look that big.. she probably weighs a darn sight less than some people on here seem to think.

(Jumping on frozen ground is completely different scenario & off topic)
		
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Some of the horses look very unhappy indeed!


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## Wagtail (15 June 2011)

One of them (the little chestnut) is either pregnant or extremely overweight herself which only adds to the abuse.


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## marmalade76 (15 June 2011)

You obviously haven't read the whole thread, Catty.

And who's the bully now?

Your last comment is rather inappropriate for this thread and forum, but since you asked, I get plenty, thanks.


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## Wagtail (15 June 2011)

marmalade76 said:



			You obviously haven't read the whole thread, Catty.

And who's the bully now?

Your last comment is rather inappropriate for this thread and forum, but since you asked, I get plenty, thanks.
		
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 Me too.


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## jenki13 (15 June 2011)

Wagtail said:



			Some of the horses look very unhappy indeed! 

Click to expand...

In the videos I've watched they all seem to be moving well & have there ears pricked.



Wagtail said:



			One of them (the little chestnut) is either pregnant or extremely overweight herself which only adds to the abuse.
		
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After having another look I think I know which you mean but not knowing the horses history she could be a broodmare, my friend had a broodmare who always looked like a balloon even though she wasn't fat! I wouldn't say she was extremely overweight.. but maybe I'm biased because my mare looks overweight all the time


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## Chloe..x (15 June 2011)

cattysmith said:



			Well said Spudlet.  

There are truly some vile people on this forum. It's awful to read some of the posts sometimes. Digging around the internet for videos of an overweight child and then making nasty remarks about her is pretty much as ****** as you can get.  I actually think she's rather a decent rider. I also think Diet 2 Ride must have taken some courage to post her videos. She obviously adores her horse and looks after it incredibly well.

I bet there are far more horse-faced, chinless, stuck up, bitchy, snotty, opinionated, **** speaking, people in the world of equestrianism than there are obese people. I think it's obvious that not all of these "mares" are being "covered"....
		
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Adores her horse? I didn't realise you show you love your horse riding it while its obviously lame!

And as for your last comment, if all you fat mares were getting covered, you would be in good shape as they say sex is a good fat burner


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## Trish C (15 June 2011)

Usual craic - starts off with a collection of valid points and interesting reading with good cases for both sides of the argument and plenty of food for thought. Then descends into a slanging match 

Anyways, for all of the 'abuse' I'm reading about in this thread, I have one for you.

I'm a big unit (am nearly 6 foot anyways and sadly piled on the pounds in my mid-teens owing to medication I was put on for and inactivity caused by a joint condition... course, ironically, this made condition worse but that's another story) but I'm making a huge effort to drop the weight and have nearly dropped four stone. Have dropped nearly a stone since pics in my sig were taken and I don't think I look too big for him in those. 

However, I'm large framed - no matter how much I lose I will never be tiny. I used to be one of the fittest people in my school - played every sport I could and rode every single day - but I was never thin. I'm a decent rider, at the very least I have a balanced seat, and I ride 17+ hands of draughty ISH, so hopefully I'm not abusive 

However, one of the women on our yard is height and weight wise - I would guess - not that much smaller than me (she's at least 5"7 or 8 and is not by any means skinny, even slim) and rides a 13.3 little cobby thing. Now I don't have an issue with her size in itself as she's not huge, but she's 'not huge' for 15.2+, not 13.3hh. She's not a great rider (unbalanced/not very 'soft') and is quite unfit. The general issue came up in conversation one day, and she said "well when you see [insert horse's name] playing around trying to buck me off, you know I'm not too big for him!". All I could think was "why is he trying to buck you off?!"  

Compared to that, my horse has it pure easy


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## cattysmith (15 June 2011)

Chloe..x said:



			Adores her horse? I didn't realise you show you love your horse riding it while its obviously lame!

And as for your last comment, if all you fat mares were getting covered, you would be in good shape as they say sex is a good fat burner 

Click to expand...

Oh deary, deary me.....

Think my point is proven right there!


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## cattysmith (15 June 2011)

marmalade76 said:



			You obviously haven't read the whole thread, Catty.

And who's the bully now?

Your last comment is rather inappropriate for this thread and forum, but since you asked, I get plenty, thanks.
		
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....and was I picking out one person? Was I picking out you?  Was I picking out anyone else?

No.


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## marmalade76 (15 June 2011)

Again, if you'd read the whole thread....


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## EAST KENT (15 June 2011)

If we are to accept that being obese ain`t good for you,apart from that it is bloody hard work(!)Surely then to suggest the way to bariatric surgery,and thus a healthy longer life,is just being caring.At the end of the day it is NEVER some real or imagined medical condition that causes obesity..it is stuffing more than you burn in your mouth,simple.
  After bariatric surgery every one of these "can`t help it" people WILL lose the flab,because it makes them eat less..no choice.All of them for ,I think,about £5000 with The Hospital Group  could gain a new healthy weight,no aching bones or collapsing knees.Worth every penny,and you can pay over five years too..so no excuses.In the meantime turn the poor horses out to recover until you`ve shrunk.
  And NO I do not get commission!


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## Trish C (15 June 2011)

EAST KENT said:



			At the end of the day it is NEVER some real or imagined medical condition that causes obesity..it is stuffing more than you burn in your mouth,simple.
		
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Seriously?! 

As I said above, I played sports/rode every single day when I was younger, was as fit as anyone. Suffer with a joint condition (which my mother and sister also have - joint condition is not weight-related i.e. it's not caused by weight) but because of the joint condition I a) had to go on a course of drugs which caused weight-gain, and because of the joint condition I could no longer be anywhere near as active - when at it's worst I could barely exercise at all - so that caused weight-gain. I still ate very healthily - both of my parents are doctors and we were NOT allowed to eat crap. Still, I put on weight, as a direct result of the medical condition.

Also, my cousin who has always been very slim and fit, but who has an endocrine disease would beg to differ with your statement. 

Would like to hand out a bottle or two of 'cop on' here


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## PaddyMonty (15 June 2011)

I really must pay a visit to this absolute black and white world that apparantly exists rather than the varying shades of grey world I seem to live in.


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## Chloe..x (15 June 2011)

Trish C said:



			Seriously?! 

As I said above, I played sports/rode every single day when I was younger, was as fit as anyone. Suffer with a joint condition (which my mother and sister also have - joint condition is not weight-related i.e. it's not caused by weight) but because of the joint condition I a) had to go on a course of drugs which caused weight-gain, and because of the joint condition I could no longer be anywhere near as active - when at it's worst I could barely exercise at all - so that caused weight-gain. I still ate very healthily - both of my parents are doctors and we were NOT allowed to eat crap. Still, I put on weight, as a direct result of the medical condition.

Also, my cousin who has always been very slim and fit, but who has an endocrine disease would beg to differ with your statement. 

Would like to hand out a bottle or two of 'cop on' here  

Click to expand...

Surely if you have a joint condition, a drug that causes "weight gain" would make the condition far worse?


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## Trish C (15 June 2011)

Chloe..x said:



			Surely if you have a joint condition, a drug that causes "weight gain" would make the condition far worse?
		
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Course it did, but such was the idiocy of the situation (see my original post.) As soon as we realised the drugs were doing more harm than the inactivity they were stopped but by then they'd already done damage


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## Wolfie (15 June 2011)

Chloe..x said:



			Surely if you have a joint condition, a drug that causes "weight gain" would make the condition far worse?
		
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I don;t really want to get involved in the mud slinging, but a lot of drugs have the side effect of weight gain. Steroids for example can cause massive weight gain. It also depends on the nature of the joint problem I should imagine.


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## Chloe..x (15 June 2011)

I wasn't trying to be funny or anything, I was just genuinely querying the situation.


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## Wolfie (15 June 2011)

chloe - I wasn't trying to be sharp  I imagine it would exacerbate the situation. I just read Trish C's reply which elucidated the matter.


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## lexiedhb (15 June 2011)

EAST KENT said:



			If we are to accept that being obese ain`t good for you,apart from that it is bloody hard work(!)Surely then to suggest the way to bariatric surgery,and thus a healthy longer life,is just being caring.At the end of the day it is NEVER some real or imagined medical condition that causes obesity..it is stuffing more than you burn in your mouth,simple.
  After bariatric surgery every one of these "can`t help it" people WILL lose the flab,because it makes them eat less..no choice.All of them for ,I think,about £5000 with The Hospital Group  could gain a new healthy weight,no aching bones or collapsing knees.Worth every penny,and you can pay over five years too..so no excuses.In the meantime turn the poor horses out to recover until you`ve shrunk.
  And NO I do not get commission!

Click to expand...

Ohhh whats this- oh a spare 5k just laying about doing nothing- super- lets all have surgery!  Really not that simple for most.


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## Camel (15 June 2011)

EAST KENT said:



			If we are to accept that being obese ain`t good for you,apart from that it is bloody hard work(!)Surely then to suggest the way to bariatric surgery,and thus a healthy longer life,is just being caring.At the end of the day it is NEVER some real or imagined medical condition that causes obesity..it is stuffing more than you burn in your mouth,simple.
  After bariatric surgery every one of these "can`t help it" people *WILL lose the flab,because it makes them eat less..no choice*.All of them for ,I think,about £5000 with The Hospital Group  could gain a new healthy weight,no aching bones or collapsing knees.Worth every penny,and you can pay over five years too..so no excuses.In the meantime turn the poor horses out to recover until you`ve shrunk.
  And NO I do not get commission!

Click to expand...

Sorry, but you're talking pap!!  if you have had bariatric surgery then shame on you for being so smug  statistics are now showing that it isn't the answer and significant regain is apparent in a very high % of patients at 3-5 yrs post surgery.

the young lass in the videos looked balanced and a decent rider to me .... what a shame she isn't able to put her point across.

BTW, I am 17st and ride a 16.1hh Clydesdale .... who really doesn't struggle with me - and I'm not 'kidding' myself!, she strides out with a spring in her step and strides back with a spring in her step 

xx


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## darkhorse123 (15 June 2011)

bakedbean said:



			I have to say that diet2ride's horse tracked up in BOTH video's.

Lame horses don't....and a few skinny minnys on here should take a look at how well their's track up.

It is NOT for me to judge if she should or shouldn't ride her horse..as at no point did he look to be "struggling" to carry her.
It didn't look pretty, but by God, believe me i've seen worse on here
I remember a recent poster who constantly posted about her "weekly lessons"
She was almost revered..but in reality, her riding was dreadful and her progress minimal
Double Standards methinks
		
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see the ops question - how is this relevant - there are clips all over the internet of people who are too heavy for the horses carrying them. Its abuse - reminds me of those donkeys carrying piles of bricks in india or somewhere 
Im not saying heavy people shouldnt ride but choose a horse who can comfortably carry you


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## EAST KENT (15 June 2011)

MrsO said:



			Sorry, but you're talking pap!!  if you have had bariatric surgery then shame on you for being so smug  statistics are now showing that it isn't the answer and significant regain is apparent in a very high % of patients at 3-5 yrs post surgery.

the young lass in the videos looked balanced and a decent rider to me .... what a shame she isn't able to put her point across.

BTW, I am 17st and ride a 16.1hh Clydesdale .... who really doesn't struggle with me - and I'm not 'kidding' myself!, she strides out with a spring in her step and strides back with a spring in her step 

xx
		
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The only way surgery can fail is if some idiot chooses to liquidise Mars Bars or an equally stupid cheating move.If it is a "bypass" technique it is perfectly possible to pig out and create for yourself a bigger "pouch".Usually people who pay for the surgery are more sensible about wasting their money.Statistics HAVE shown that those who get freeby NHS ops do cheat and therefore fail.That is not the fault of the surgeon,just the muppit that wasted his time.Also,before even a private scheme will op they do  require you to diet and lose at least a stone,probably as a precaution that they are not wasting resources on someone who won`t play the game.
  No ,not talking "pap" at all,and at least it is a subject I am familiar with..by the way I was NEVER anywhere as heavy as you,how tiring it must be.


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## EAST KENT (15 June 2011)

lexiedhb said:



			Ohhh whats this- oh a spare 5k just laying about doing nothing- super- lets all have surgery!  Really not that simple for most.
		
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They do allow payment over five years..as I said..so NO excuses


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## Fantasy_World (15 June 2011)

No ,not talking "pap" at all,and at least it is a subject I am familiar with..by the way I was NEVER anywhere as heavy as you,how tiring it must be.[/QUOTE]

How obnoxious


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## Camel (15 June 2011)

EAST KENT said:



			..by the way I was NEVER anywhere as heavy as you,how tiring it must be.

Click to expand...

Not tiring at all  I feel great as I was pushing 24 stone until *I* had Bariatric surgery .... here's hoping once I've lost the next few stone and get to a normal weight I retain a little empathy.


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## EAST KENT (15 June 2011)

Well there you go..well done you!


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## PapaFrita (15 June 2011)

marmalade76 said:



			Why are you so p*ssed PF? You got fat kids?
		
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Deflection. The recourse of someone who has no other way to support their opinion.


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## PapaFrita (15 June 2011)

Wagtail said:



			What about the bullying of the poor horses?
		
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And what EXACTLY is being done for the 'poor horses' beyond b*tching on a forum?


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## lexiedhb (15 June 2011)

EAST KENT said:



			They do allow payment over five years..as I said..so NO excuses

Click to expand...

Which is still nearly £100 per month- plus whatever interest they feel the need to add- I do not have a spare £100 a month or TRUST me I would have had this surgery a long time ago......


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## EAST KENT (15 June 2011)

marmalade76 said:



			Why are you so p*ssed PF? You got fat kids?
		
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Very funny though!


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## PapaFrita (15 June 2011)

marmalade76 said:



			You obviously haven't read the whole thread, Catty.

And who's the bully now?

Your last comment is rather inappropriate for this thread and forum, but since you asked, I get plenty, thanks.
		
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Seriously? You're playing the 'bullying' card?? You really haven't got ANY other ideas, have you?


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## PapaFrita (15 June 2011)

EAST KENT said:



			At the end of the day it is NEVER some real or imagined medical condition that causes obesity..it is stuffing more than you burn in your mouth,simple.
		
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Food CAN be an addiction. It can be a comfort the way other people smoke, do drugs or drink. The difference with food is that unlike booze, or drugs, or cigarettes, you can NOT just give it up 100%. It requires a collossal amount of discipline to eat just enough, especially after years of eating to excess. People eat all over the place, all day, temptations are in place on TV, magazines, etc, that don't exist for alcohol, tobacco or drugs. Food is socially acceptable and even encouraged; families gather around the meal table; it's not about just giving up.




			After bariatric surgery every one of these "can`t help it" people WILL lose the flab,because it makes them eat less..no choice.All of them for ,I think,about £5000 with The Hospital Group  could gain a new healthy weight,no aching bones or collapsing knees.Worth every penny,and you can pay over five years too..so no excuses.In the meantime turn the poor horses out to recover until you`ve shrunk.
  And NO I do not get commission!

Click to expand...

Stop making it sound like an easy way out. Depending on the procedure it can be VERY major surgery, can cause problems in it's own right, does NOT teach or encourage healthy eating and doesn't always work.


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## Walrus (15 June 2011)

This thread is terrifying me...I've never felt too big on my pony and I backed him last year, it breaks my heart that I might be too big for him. What do you reckon a 13.3hh stocky, well put together, short backed Fell pony could carry?


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## touchstone (15 June 2011)

Walrus, fell ponies were bred to carry lead from the mines all day, or a shepherd doing a days shepherding, I'm sure your fell will be fine for a few hours a day.   Copied from the web:-

"Hardendale Fell Ponies meet today's demand for an all-round and versatile family pony capable of carrying all members of the family. Although the ponies can easily carry the weight of a heavy adult theyre equally suitable for experienced children whilst many have the right temperament for younger children. In many respects the present-day Fell shows the same adaptability that endeared it to the Lakeland farmers of a hundred years ago."


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## PapaFrita (15 June 2011)

EAST KENT said:



			Very funny though!

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Yes,it was hysterical when my aunt developed an eating disorder after being told she was fat (she was never more than a little bit plump) an addiction to slimming pills and then committed suicide. We still tell the story at birthdays and christmases.


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## rubysmum (15 June 2011)

i am almost too scared to post here - as there have been some very unpleasant comments - but here goes
1. i know 3 pony club mummies who have had gastric surgery - YES  - they have all lost weight - BUT  continue to have the most extraordinary realtionship with food & they model this relationship out to their daughters - food is a really complex thing for many people - slating peple rarely makes them feel able to make changes
2. the celebrity culture we live in has given us a totally skewed motion of what a woman should look like - yrs ago when i was dabbling in TV presenting - i was told that at 5'7 & 9 stone that i really needed to loose a further stone - may women in the public eye are IRL skeletal
3. most of us have no real idea of what a 12 stone person looks like - we hear 12 stone & expect a person to be huge - i was recently standing next to the max weight note at a large equestrain centre - when the instructor sugested that i have a jumping lesson & i pointed out that me [& tack] would be above their weight limit - she simply refused to believe that i weighed "that much" - i suspect that many posters here who weigh 8 or 9 stone ave some very odd ntions of what 12 or 13 stone looks like


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## felixlight (15 June 2011)

soulfull said:



			There are so many threads on weight and what a horse can carry.

Most of the time I think people are too 'PC' to be honest or we are not honest enough with ourselves

I am not a skinny person but truly believe that we often don't correctly consider the weight of rider enough!! we kid ourselves and each other

Some say 'In the old days even a small  horse would carry a 15st farmer hunting'  yes but he would be knackered by the time he was 12/13.

It is said 'oh I am ??st and for example my 15.2h TB carries me fine.  Horse may carry you fine for x amount of time BUT it WILL cause extra wear and tear on joints etc

Doctors regularly tell patients  lose weight and your knees/hips/back will be much better!!!!  and it often works

My view is anyone over 12st who wants a horse to be healthy for years and years needs to chose a horse very carefully, for both bone, breeding and conformation.  Obviously the more over 12st you are the more carefully you need to chose and take into account what you want to do with the horse
		
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Totally agree with this. After all, this excludes noone. It is always possible to lose weight and surely worth it for the welfare of the horses heavier people ride.


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## YorksG (15 June 2011)

With regard to those people who claim that surgery and reduction of calories is all that is needed to loose weight, unfortunately you are wrong. There are people who retain huge amounts fluid as a result of food intolerances, surgery would be pointless. I have to agree with the poster who wanted to know where the black and white world is that so many posters live in.


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## Wagtail (16 June 2011)

Trish C said:



			Usual craic - starts off with a collection of valid points and interesting reading with good cases for both sides of the argument and plenty of food for thought. Then descends into a slanging match 

Anyways, for all of the 'abuse' I'm reading about in this thread, I have one for you.

I'm a big unit (am nearly 6 foot anyways and sadly piled on the pounds in my mid-teens owing to medication I was put on for and inactivity caused by a joint condition... course, ironically, this made condition worse but that's another story) but I'm making a huge effort to drop the weight and have nearly dropped four stone. Have dropped nearly a stone since pics in my sig were taken and I don't think I look too big for him in those. 

However, I'm large framed - no matter how much I lose I will never be tiny. I used to be one of the fittest people in my school - played every sport I could and rode every single day - but I was never thin. I'm a decent rider, at the very least I have a balanced seat, and I ride 17+ hands of draughty ISH, so hopefully I'm not abusive 

However, one of the women on our yard is height and weight wise - I would guess - not that much smaller than me (she's at least 5"7 or 8 and is not by any means skinny, even slim) and rides a 13.3 little cobby thing. Now I don't have an issue with her size in itself as she's not huge, but she's 'not huge' for 15.2+, not 13.3hh. She's not a great rider (unbalanced/not very 'soft') and is quite unfit. The general issue came up in conversation one day, and she said "well when you see [insert horse's name] playing around trying to buck me off, you know I'm not too big for him!". All I could think was "why is he trying to buck you off?!"  

Compared to that, my horse has it pure easy 

Click to expand...

I think you look fine in your sig. Fabulous horse too.


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## Wagtail (16 June 2011)

rubysmum said:



			i am almost too scared to post here - as there have been some very unpleasant comments - but here goes
1. i know 3 pony club mummies who have had gastric surgery - YES  - they have all lost weight - BUT  continue to have the most extraordinary realtionship with food & they model this relationship out to their daughters - food is a really complex thing for many people - slating peple rarely makes them feel able to make changes
2. the celebrity culture we live in has given us a totally skewed motion of what a woman should look like - yrs ago when i was dabbling in TV presenting - i was told that at 5'7 & 9 stone that i really needed to loose a further stone - may women in the public eye are IRL skeletal
3. most of us have no real idea of what a 12 stone person looks like - we hear 12 stone & expect a person to be huge - i was recently standing next to the max weight note at a large equestrain centre - when the instructor sugested that i have a jumping lesson & i pointed out that me [& tack] would be above their weight limit - she simply refused to believe that i weighed "that much" - i suspect that many posters here who weigh 8 or 9 stone ave some very odd ntions of what 12 or 13 stone looks like
		
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This thread is not about the rights and wrongs of being overweight. It is about what weight is too heavy for your horse.  But it seems to have been taken as slating overweight people in general. Why do these people not stop to consider the horses when someone of 20 plus stone is riding them?


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## Onyxia (16 June 2011)

Wagtail said:



			It is about what weight is too heavy for your horse.  But it seems to have been taken as slating overweight people in general.
 Why do these people not stop to consider the horses when someone of 20 plus stone is riding them?
		
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They DO,that is why the vast majority are riding horses that a capable of carrying them and are not seen doing hard or fast work!




Wagtail said:



			This thread is not about the rights and wrongs of being overweight.
		
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Agree,although you are making it so.




Wagtail said:



			I'm not saying that I would do it, but if a video is put up on the web and set to 'public' then there is nothing morally wrong with people using it to prove points etc on a forum IMO.
		
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Course not,that would mean you need to take responsability for your extremly nasty actions and words- if you are "just" commenting on something someone else has done no harm,no foul huh? 



Wagtail said:



			It is not at all obvious to a passing viewer that the girl is only 16. I didn't notice.
		
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Did you want to? 



Wagtail said:



			I find the fact that this girl's parents allow her to ride and actually film her, and then allow her to post them up (at the risk of possible ridicule) to be far more morally wrong.
		
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Ah well,if someone has done worse elsewhere that makes it all right then?
WTF is wrong with YOU?
How old are you?


Wagtail said:



			What the h*ll's wrong with them? Can't they see what she looks like and that they are opening her up to all kinds of abuse?
		
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Have you ever heard of irony? 

How do you knwo she suffers from abuse in her day to ay life? The ONLY people we know have abused her because of her weight and apearence are YOU and marmalade76....


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## Onyxia (16 June 2011)

marmalade76 said:



			This tread is entitled 'how heavy is too heavy' and IMO, this girl is too heavy to be doing the things she is doing on her horses.
		
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But clearly not that of the people around her.
The decision is not yours to make.




marmalade76 said:



			I did not seek out vids of fat riders, I found this when searching for vids of local comp venues and was shocked to see someone of this size riding, let alone out competing and hunting.
		
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but you did decide to put the videos on her,increasing the audiance hugely and offered her up to everyone who wanted to join you in a good old bitch.

Odd then,that if you are sticking with your line of being disgusted on behalf of poor,abused horses that you say nothing about the person posted by JunoXV 
But then,children are easier targets then adults are...




marmalade76 said:



			And since when did we need the permission of the subjects of all youtube vids we post links to? Blue Peter filmed me when I was out riding a few years ago, they didn't ask my permission to put me and my pony on national TV, they just did it.
		
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Wow.
Someone else did it first/worse is no excuse for your own behaviour.


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## Luci07 (16 June 2011)

This thread is going all over the place. I am wholly with Papa Frita on this as they seem to be speaking the most sense. 

As an adult, take charge and behave in that manner. Posting a video of a child up reflects poorly on you and yes, it is bullying. Agree it was idiotic of said family/child/who ever to post the video up but can't you please play the grown up here? instead of hiding behind "well, she put it up" etc. I REGULARLY am asked to keep an eye on friends childrens postings on facebook. Now yes they are over 13, they have been told time and time again to keep pictures private/postings private but do they? do they heck! and the favourites seem (currently) to be bikini shots in profile pictures... which is open to the internet..

There has been a lot of good sense said on here but a huge amount of vitriol as well. I have known children who are seriously seriously overweight and lying to themselves about it. I also have to say I had absolutely no idea of how to try to help because the other hidden issues that were also going on were huge and well out of my scope.


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## PaddyMonty (16 June 2011)

Yunalesca said:



			Odd then,that if you are sticking with your line of being disgusted on behalf of poor,abused horses that you say nothing about the person posted by JunoXV 

Click to expand...

Wow, 47 years of riding and the first time I've been called a horse abuser.  although should strictly be pony abuser. 
Just goes to prove you learn something new about yourself everyday.


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## Onyxia (16 June 2011)

JunoXV said:



			Wow, 47 years of riding and the first time I've been called a horse abuser.  although should strictly be pony abuser. 
Just goes to prove you learn something new about yourself everyday. 

Click to expand...

 Pants I did not mean that at all! My first responce was a giggle and aww 

I just wanted to make the point that Wagtail and marmalade76 have choosen to slate a young girl who is unabe to defent herself at length ,but say nothing to the adults.



Although,now I look at it agin the pony clearly has spotted something cook off camera and you are preventing the pony from eating it- evil after all


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## Roasted Chestnuts (16 June 2011)

I dont really think anyone will agree on weights for horses.

If the horse isnt struggling, looking down/depressed or having back/joint problems then I cant see where the problem is personally.

From someone who has been told they are too fat for their horses many people need to think before they open their mouths. Not everyone needs their eyes opened, many people realise they are overweight and many people also have problems that others may never see or deal with.

Oh and calling people horse abusers IMO is a bit out of line. But then again just my views


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## PaddyMonty (16 June 2011)

Yunalesca said:



 Pants I did not mean that at all! My first responce was a giggle and aww 

Click to expand...

Worry not. I hope from the tone of my post that you realise I was joking.
JFTR the only thing I was preventing the evil pont from eating was ME.


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## kerilli (16 June 2011)

gosh, reading the rest of this thread has been an education.
to go back to the original question... most old horses develop sway backs, because their back is in effect a 'bridge' which is gradually pulled down (by the weight of their gut etc) over the years.
putting a heavy or very heavy rider on for extended periods will exacerbate this, surely, however stocky the horse's legs. horses were not designed to carry weight other than themselves, after all. they're much better pulling heavy weight than carrying it.
must admit i've been quite shocked at some of the pics and vids, and people's opinions of what is and isn't a reasonable weight for a certain height. i'm right with Wagtail on most of her comments.
fwiw, re: the 'i'm big boned' argument (which someone used an an excuse to me the other day - they weren't) - the easy test of this is to put your thumb and middle finger around the other wrist. if they overlap, you're small boned, if they meet, average boned, if don't meet, big-boned. it doesn't have anything to do with height, petiteness or otherwise of feet and hands, etc.
re: the recommendations of bariatric surgery... hmm, any comments on the hypnotism that convinces one that one has had bariatric surgery? far cheaper, less risk, and apparently has good results...


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## millitiger (16 June 2011)

kerilli said:



			fwiw, re: the 'i'm big boned' argument (which someone used an an excuse to me the other day - they weren't) - the easy test of this is to put your thumb and middle finger around the other wrist. if they overlap, you're small boned, if they meet, average boned, if don't meet, big-boned. it doesn't have anything to do with height, petiteness or otherwise of feet and hands, etc.
		
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Yes! Just tested this and I am definitely big boned so I have an excuse 

Although saying that I am still not obese (I hope?) at just over 11st and 5'10ft.


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## kerilli (16 June 2011)

millitiger said:



			Yes! Just tested this and I am definitely big boned so I have an excuse 

Although saying that I am still not obese (I hope?) at just over 11st and 5'10ft.
		
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it definitely makes a difference imho. i'm 5'10" with size 8 feet so thought i was prob medium boned or big boned, am actually small boned! so, no excuse at all. am happy to say current diet is ABSOLUTELY WORKING and i'm very very happy about it! 10st 4 and dropping...


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## PaddyMonty (16 June 2011)

kerilli said:



			fwiw, re: the 'i'm big boned' argument (which someone used an an excuse to me the other day - they weren't) - the easy test of this is to put your thumb and middle finger around the other wrist. if they overlap, you're small boned, if they meet, average boned, if don't meet, big-boned.
		
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Does this hold true for men aswell?
Just check and I'm apparently big boned. A weedier runt of a male specimen it would be hard to find.  I make the guy on the Mr Muscle advert look like Charles Atlas.  So thats two new things I've learnt about myself today.


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## BonneMaman (16 June 2011)

firstponyMinto said:



			I agree with Janette on this...
"Shires are strong for pulling, but not always for carrying heavy riders" 

the same goes for any of the heavier breeds...I think they were all bred for the plough & not for riding?


& I agree with Benson21 about it seems only the female riders are criticized for being "heavier" .....it's so not fair!!
		
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The older breeds of heavy horses were not bred for farm work, they were bred to carry men into battle with heavy armour.  Those of you who have said that only people under 12st should ride need to take have a serious word with most of the men that hunt and most of the males in the British show jumping team!

I know of plenty of skinnies that are absolutely the worst riders I have ever had the misfortune to watch.


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## bugbee717 (16 June 2011)

Ok just done my three year old, he has the same size gap as me about half an inch, he smaller than my girls at his age, but at three he is in a size 9 shoe, my oh fingers meet, over six foot, size 12/13 feet an normal weight for hight. I am 5.11, well u all know my weight, size 10 feet. Can't for the girls to come home number 1 is 8 size 3 shoes and tall, number is very tall, but very small and size 2 feet at 6 years old.


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## kerilli (16 June 2011)

JunoXV said:



			Does this hold true for men aswell?
Just check and I'm apparently big boned. A weedier runt of a male specimen it would be hard to find.  I make the guy on the Mr Muscle advert look like Charles Atlas.  So thats two new things I've learnt about myself today. 

Click to expand...

it's in the Dukan Diet book written by a doctor, and aimed at both men and women, so i think it's true for both.
i know it is no excuse for anyone being overweight BUT it might explain why people of similar height and build etc can be surprisingly divergent in weight (putting aside the muscle/fat thing.)
another thing he says which he wants spread around is that when your BMI gets to 29 (men and women) is the point at which the fat cells in your body divide (double in number), and will never un-divide... so once you've crossed that threshold it is MUCH MUCH easier to gain weight (all those spare fat cells waiting to be filled) and much much harder to lose it... so, anyone approaching that, stop now, whatever it takes, or it'll be far harder in future, is his message.

bugbee717, i don't know if it's supposed to be accurate in children, it may only be adults who have stopped growing (length of finger bones etc)


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## tallyho! (16 June 2011)

kerilli said:



			another thing he says which he wants spread around is that when your BMI gets to 29 (men and women) is the point at which the fat cells in your body divide (double in number), and will never un-divide... so once you've crossed that threshold it is MUCH MUCH easier to gain weight (all those spare fat cells waiting to be filled) and much much harder to lose it... so, anyone approaching that, stop now, whatever it takes, or it'll be far harder in future, is his message.
		
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That is quite true... scary huh???


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## PapaFrita (16 June 2011)

kerilli said:



			fwiw, re: the 'i'm big boned' argument (which someone used an an excuse to me the other day - they weren't) - the easy test of this is to put your thumb and middle finger around the other wrist. if they overlap, you're small boned, if they meet, average boned, if don't meet, big-boned. it doesn't have anything to do with height, petiteness or otherwise of feet and hands, etc.
		
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Sorry K, I don't think it's as simple as that. I have veeeery long fingers


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## *hic* (16 June 2011)

JunoXV said:



			Does this hold true for men aswell?
Just check and I'm apparently big boned. A weedier runt of a male specimen it would be hard to find.  I make the guy on the Mr Muscle advert look like Charles Atlas.  So thats two new things I've learnt about myself today. 

Click to expand...

 Or you may have abnormally small hands for your build!

My hands and feet are a dead giveaway to the general shape of my bones. I have to wear XL women's gloves (or medium to large mens gloves) due to the breadth of them. Buying rings is difficult, I usually have to have them altered as the stock sizes just don't come big enough. My feet measure a G despite them now appearing bony rather than fat.

This is an interesting link for measuring frame and deciding on BMI etc. link here According to that the NHS BMI scales for my large frame are 26lbs out against the other indicators.

However I still have some way to go before worrying about being at the bottom of the healthy range.


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## *hic* (16 June 2011)

PapaFrita said:



			Sorry K, I don't think it's as simple as that. I have veeeery long fingers 

Click to expand...


Arachnodactyly!


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## kerilli (16 June 2011)

jemima_too said:



			Or you may have abnormally small hands for your build!

My hands and feet are a dead giveaway to the general shape of my bones. I have to wear XL women's gloves (or medium to large mens gloves) due to the breadth of them. Buying rings is difficult, I usually have to have them altered as the stock sizes just don't come big enough. My feet measure a G despite them now appearing bony rather than fat.

This is an interesting link for measuring frame and deciding on BMI etc. link here According to that the NHS BMI scales for my large frame are 26lbs out against the other indicators.

However I still have some way to go before worrying about being at the bottom of the healthy range.
		
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hmmm, i'm glove size 8, or XL usually. i just did that test you linked to and based on my wrist measurement (16cm) it said i am large-framed and should weigh 58-78kgs (BMI tables) or 69-79kgs (Met tables).
Eeeeeeeeek, I don't THINK so!
BMI is notoriously unreliably anyway imho, esp for anyone muscular. but the Met tables are way out for me anyway. 



PapaFrita said:



			Sorry K, I don't think it's as simple as that. I have veeeery long fingers 

Click to expand...

so do i... but in proportion to my wrists they're okay, i guess.


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## Kirwil (16 June 2011)

Jemima that link is mental  
I did it with elbow measurement and got that I had a small build and should weigh 2lbs more than I currently do (pretty much what I expected) Redid it with wrist and got large build. I have literally no fat on my wrists  It said I should weigh 95lbs.  At 5'6'' when I weighed that I looked anorexic. And that is 17lbs LESS than I currently weigh. Although I'm sure the family pony would be much happier...


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## millitiger (16 June 2011)

kerilli said:



			it definitely makes a difference imho. i'm 5'10" with size 8 feet so thought i was prob medium boned or big boned, am actually small boned! so, no excuse at all. am happy to say current diet is ABSOLUTELY WORKING and i'm very very happy about it! 10st 4 and dropping...   

Click to expand...

I don't like all these doubters of the theory- don't take my excuse from me! 

My aim is to get to 10st something, even if it is 10st 13lb


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## Winklepoker (16 June 2011)

Shires and most heavies are hairy and grotesque and so are fat people.. lets just leave them be


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## *hic* (16 June 2011)

kerilli said:



			hmmm, i'm glove size 8, or XL usually. i just did that test you linked to and based on my wrist measurement (16cm) it said i am large-framed and should weigh 58-78kgs (BMI tables) or 69-79kgs (Met tables).


Eeeeeeeeek, I don't THINK so!


*Oh I wish I'd seen your face, I'll bet you were horrified!*


so do i... but in proportion to my wrists they're okay, i guess.  

Click to expand...

I am amazed that your frame size would be classified as large - well I'm amazed your wrists are that big as well. You certainly look long slim and elegant, unlike my short stumpiness.

I'm glad the diet is going well. Sadly I had a funeral, two family parties, AGM with three course meal and two days catering at Tina's in a week and it's rather put the mockers on mine.


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## *hic* (16 June 2011)

Kirwil said:



			Jemima that link is mental  
I did it with elbow measurement and got that I had a small build and should weigh 2lbs more than I currently do (pretty much what I expected) Redid it with wrist and got large build. I have literally no fat on my wrists  It said I should weigh 95lbs.  At 5'6'' when I weighed that I looked anorexic. And that is 17lbs LESS than I currently weigh. Although I'm sure the family pony would be much happier... 

Click to expand...

Yup, I think we might have to agree that it's really not right. Sad though as it was rather reassuring on putting my figures in


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## *hic* (16 June 2011)

Winklepoker said:



			Shires and most heavies are hairy and grotesque and so are fat people.. lets just leave them be 

Click to expand...

I ride a quarter shire. Does that mean I'm only a quarter grotesque and hairy?


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## Winklepoker (16 June 2011)

jemima_too said:



			I ride a quarter shire. Does that mean I'm only a quarter grotesque and hairy?
		
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Pass me a cloth will you! Just snorted tea out of my nose!


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## kerilli (16 June 2011)

jemima_too said:



			I am amazed that your frame size would be classified as large - well I'm amazed your wrists are that big as well. You certainly look long slim and elegant, unlike my short stumpiness.

I'm glad the diet is going well. Sadly I had a funeral, two family parties, AGM with three course meal and two days catering at Tina's in a week and it's rather put the mockers on mine.
		
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eek, that's tough for anyone. hope you get back on the wagon. i am being super-strict with the low-carbing and it has finally gotten to become an easy habit again... walked past Thorntons yesterday, and Ben and Jerry's, without a pang. took long enough though... i am a true carboholic when i cave in.  
btw, this'll make you laugh, i heard recently about a top event rider who ranted to a volunteer FJ about the fact that entries are so expensive because of the free lunches provided to volunteers, and they should bring their own...


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## Chloe..x (16 June 2011)

BonneMaman said:



			The older breeds of heavy horses were not bred for farm work, they were bred to carry men into battle with heavy armour.  Those of you who have said that only people under 12st should ride need to take have a serious word with most of the men that hunt and most of the males in the British show jumping team!

I know of plenty of skinnies that are absolutely the worst riders I have ever had the misfortune to watch.
		
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I don't see where the under 12st official borderline has come. I think a 13st weightlimit should be enforced at riding school cos of the amount of work the horses actually do, 3 hours a day and if you're a weight carrier you have three hours of maybe 3 13st beginners. Its not fair on the horses.


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## Hovis_and_SidsMum (16 June 2011)

Juno. I obviously retract my offer for you to ride the Destroyer as you are clearly an equine abuser. Shame on you.


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## Hovis_and_SidsMum (16 June 2011)

Damn blackberry sent it before I'd finished! Juno - the issue is less your obvious weight issues and more your refusal to allow the poor thing to eat whatever it was off camera. Hovis would not stand for this!
As for heavy horse owners being hairy and fat - OMG how did you know? I look like the results of a genetic experiment between an elephant and an afghan hound


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## Wagtail (16 June 2011)

Yunalesca said:



 Pants I did not mean that at all! My first responce was a giggle and aww 

I just wanted to make the point that Wagtail and marmalade76 have choosen to slate a young girl who is unabe to defent herself at length ,but say nothing to the adults.



Although,now I look at it agin the pony clearly has spotted something cook off camera and you are preventing the pony from eating it- evil after all  

Click to expand...

I have been critisising the adults. Diet to ride especially. I am not interested in slating a young girl. If you read my posts properly you will see that my critism was aimed at her parents. As a mother of two teenagers, there is NO WAY I would let them ride if they were that obese. I care for them far too much to do that. Being obese invites enough critisim and ridicule as it stands without making it look ten times as bad when an obese person rides a horse. 

It worries me that so many people think nothing of making a horse carry so much weight concentrated in the small bearing surface of a saddle. It's shocking.


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## jenki13 (16 June 2011)

Wagtail said:



			I have been critisising the adults. Diet to ride especially. I am not interested in slating a young girl. If you read my posts properly you will see that my critism was aimed at her parents. As a mother of two teenagers, there is NO WAY I would let them ride if they were that obese. I care for them far too much to do that. Being obese invites enough critisim and ridicule as it stands without making it look ten times as bad when an obese person rides a horse. 

It worries me that so many people think nothing of making a horse carry so much weight concentrated in the small bearing surface of a saddle. It's shocking.
		
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I just don't think she's as heavy as you seem to think.. I thought her was about 16/16.2hh but turns out its not! When compared to Oli Townend & some of the other guys who ride quite fine thoroughbreds that are over 16hh but look tiny there might be less of a weight difference.. unfortunately we have no idea about the weight of the girl in question unlike those who have posted about themselves on here.


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## *hic* (16 June 2011)

kerilli said:



			eek, that's tough for anyone. hope you get back on the wagon. i am being super-strict with the low-carbing and it has finally gotten to become an easy habit again... walked past Thorntons yesterday, and Ben and Jerry's, without a pang. took long enough though... i am a true carboholic when i cave in.  
btw, this'll make you laugh, i heard recently about a top event rider who ranted to a volunteer FJ about the fact that entries are so expensive because of the free lunches provided to volunteers, and they should bring their own...    

Click to expand...

Last night was the Grand Opening of a new family-owned facility, with a speaker I really wanted to hear, so we trundled along. Champagne (decent as well!) was being pushed on me for two hours and I only cracked and had one glass, together with the smoked salmon and caviar off a couple of blinis. Had to ignore all the other circulating goodies and the little miniature puds that the waitresses were trying to tempt us with.

In light of what was on offer there I think the lunches for volunteers are rather meagre really, however perhaps the top eventer would like to come and volunteer in October and we'll see how they feel about food and drink after 7 hours in a cold car watching other people have all the fun!

However I'm sort of back on track. Beware with the low carbing, if you've not done it before, that it can go back on VERY fast if you don't catch yourself quickly. I didn't exactly gorge at any of the "do"s but still managed to regain a stone in a week. In my case if I am really strict for three days after a single blip (eggs only) then I don't disrupt things too badly. Still 5 pounds up on where I was though after a week of blips.


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## kerilli (16 June 2011)

jenki13 said:



			I just don't think she's as heavy as you seem to think.. I thought her was about 16/16.2hh but turns out its not! When compared to Oli Townend & some of the other guys who ride quite fine thoroughbreds that are over 16hh but look tiny there might be less of a weight difference.. unfortunately we have no idea about the weight of the girl in question unlike those who have posted about themselves on here.
		
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hmm, okay, i have no idea how tall she is but i would be frankly amazed if she was less than 20 stone in the first vid, probably more. 
i really don't think you can possibly compare OT and co (who don't tend to ride 'quite fine tbs' either imho... most event horses are more substantial than fine tb 'blood weed types') who ride with absolute balance and control, to the rider in question.
i know 'weight is weight' BUT balanced controlled weight is much easier to carry, and it is possible to 'ride light' or 'ride heavy' according to experience.

gosh jemima_too, that is self-control. yes, have done LC before and broke spectacularly (at an Event where there seemed to be only a sweetie stand, oops) but have a better handle on it this time, will gradually reintroduce stuff a la Dukan way. 
i put a stone on in a week when skiing once (unbelievable) so i know how bad it can be! months to lose, hours to regain...


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## jenki13 (16 June 2011)

kerilli said:



			hmm, okay, i have no idea how tall she is but i would be frankly amazed if she was less than 20 stone in the first vid, probably more. 
i really don't think you can possibly compare OT and co (who don't tend to ride 'quite fine tbs' either imho... most event horses are more substantial than fine tb 'blood weed types') who ride with absolute balance and control, to the rider in question.
i know 'weight is weight' BUT balanced controlled weight is much easier to carry, and it is possible to 'ride light' or 'ride heavy' according to experience.

gosh jemima_too, that is self-control. yes, have done LC before and broke spectacularly (at an Event where there seemed to be only a sweetie stand, oops) but have a better handle on it this time, will gradually reintroduce stuff a la Dukan way. 
i put a stone on in a week when skiing once (unbelievable) so i know how bad it can be! months to lose, hours to regain...
		
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Really? I wouldn't have put her anywhere near that heavy.. imo she doesn't look as heavy as some other posters on here that have stated as 20stone+ 
Just looking at various youtube videos for example this horse looks a lot finer than the girls own chunkier looking horse (I don't actually know of that many very fine TBs or other horses once they are fully grown/muscled up so it was a comparison):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGGc6yEJPZ4&NR=1&feature=fvwp

I know that you can ride more balanced making it easier for a horse to work but its still carrying the same amount of weight. For example put on a rucksack weighing 15kg say.. do the straps loose now run.. then do the straps up tight & run.. much more comfortable & easier to move correctly with the tighter straps (no bobbing around) but at the end the day you've carried the same amount of weight around on your back & through your joints. 

out of interest how much do you reckon I weigh in this photo:
http://www.thefotografer.co.uk/Gallery/horse/2009/Ludlow%20Hunt%20Show%209th%20August%202009/event.php?p=GRAH9862.jpg&album=Show+Jumping+Senior+Open


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## kerilli (16 June 2011)

oh, very very difficult to say, esp as i don't know your height.
from that pic i'd guess you at less than 5'4" and therefore i'd say roughly 10 stone ish. probably miles out though, in which case, apologies!


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## Megibo (16 June 2011)

just want to post again to say you really never know...

i weigh 12st (am 5ft 3) and ride my 13.3 cobby she's never shown any issue with my weight... 

however long story short back woman today brought up a lot of problems with most of her spine on the left side caused *by the saddle* and as a result she was pain/discomfort. anyway, through manipulations her back is now fine but she's advised even though she is a weight carrier for the sake of her back (and also old scar tissue in her left stifle and above hock) it would be much better for her not to actually be used for that purpose (carry weight). and has therefore put in a weight limit of 10 st 7 *max* for her. what's made it worse is the fact that she has to carry me plus alot of excess weight where she has 'exploded' on long grass. she's actually the healthy weight of a 17hh horse, no wonder the saddle doesnt fit....
so as a result, i'll be walking her in hand, free schooling and grooming her etc until she's the right weight and so am i!! 
admittedly this wont apply to every 13.3 weight carrier type but goes to show sometimes even if they don't complain like my mare who is very stoic they could have a much lower weight limit than you think and she certainly wont be allowed to get this fat again. ashamed to say she's been fatter before!! so me lesson harshly learnt and i'll be riding the chunky 14.3 until i'm 2 stone lighter at least and the pony is happy through her back

edited to say: i see wagtails point now ( i think its wagtail) who said they'd not be riding a pony if they weighed over 10st 7


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## kerilli (16 June 2011)

Tazhazzamoose said:



			just want to post again to say you really never know...

i weigh 12st (am 5ft 3) and ride my 13.3 cobby she's never shown any issue with my weight... 

however long story short back woman today brought up a lot of problems with most of her spine on the left side caused *by the saddle* and as a result she was pain/discomfort. anyway, through manipulations her back is now fine but she's advised even though she is a weight carrier for the sake of her back (and also old scar tissue in her left stifle and above hock) it would be much better for her not to actually be used for that purpose (carry weight). and has therefore put in a weight limit of 10 st 7 *max* for her. what's made it worse is the fact that she has to carry me plus alot of excess weight where she has 'exploded' on long grass. she's actually the healthy weight of a 17hh horse, no wonder the saddle doesnt fit....
so as a result, i'll be walking her in hand, free schooling and grooming her etc until she's the right weight and so am i!! 
admittedly this wont apply to every 13.3 weight carrier type but goes to show sometimes even if they don't complain like my mare who is very stoic they could have a much lower weight limit than you think and she certainly wont be allowed to get this fat again. ashamed to say she's been fatter before!! so me lesson harshly learnt and i'll be riding the chunky 14.3 until i'm 2 stone lighter at least and the pony is happy through her back

edited to say: i see wagtails point now ( i think its wagtail) who said they'd not be riding a pony if they weighed over 10st 7
		
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good for you for posting, and for getting your girl sorted.
as you say, some of them just don't complain. the ones that really complain sometimes aren't listened to anyway.   
if she's that overweight you are very lucky that she's not laminitic, hope she responds well to the new regime.


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## jenki13 (16 June 2011)

kerilli said:



			oh, very very difficult to say, esp as i don't know your height.
from that pic i'd guess you at less than 5'4" and therefore i'd say roughly 10 stone ish. probably miles out though, in which case, apologies!
		
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Sorry forgot to say my height, I am indeed 5'4" ! I was actually 10.5 stone if not a little heavier then. No apologies l wouldn't have minded what weight you said I was... I was just wondering how well you guessed weight. 

Also don't mention the horses weight  ..the fat bloater..  it was extremely hard to give her a good work out for about 4 weeks that summer thanks to an annoying work schedule!


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## Megibo (16 June 2011)

kerilli said:



			good for you for posting, and for getting your girl sorted.
as you say, some of them just don't complain. the ones that really complain sometimes aren't listened to anyway.   
if she's that overweight you are very lucky that she's not laminitic, hope she responds well to the new regime.
		
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true, although i would rather have a moaner! she'd been telling me in very subtle ways that i just put down to her general quirkiness 
shes that overweight according to the weigh tape, and has been bigger, so yes very lucky this year and all the last summers...!
thankyou i hope that she will, back lady is coming again in two months to do my sisters horse so she'll 'review' her then so fingers crossed...


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## EAST KENT (16 June 2011)

PapaFrita said:



			Food CAN be an addiction. It can be a comfort the way other people smoke, do drugs or drink. The difference with food is that unlike booze, or drugs, or cigarettes, you can NOT just give it up 100%. It requires a collossal amount of discipline to eat just enough, especially after years of eating to excess. People eat all over the place, all day, temptations are in place on TV, magazines, etc, that don't exist for alcohol, tobacco or drugs. Food is socially acceptable and even encouraged; families gather around the meal table; it's not about just giving up.


Stop making it sound like an easy way out. Depending on the procedure it can be VERY major surgery, can cause problems in it's own right, does NOT teach or encourage healthy eating and doesn't always work.
		
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Like anything else  it works if you work with it;no pigging out at office do`s ..cos more than likely you`ll end up vomiting.Dieting purely by will power almost always fails in the long term..the diet must be a new way of life,and very few,me included ,have the strength to continue life long.Very few "slimmers of the year " stay slim for long,and no wonder with food constantly ,in mags,on tv..everywhere.If as once we ate to live it would be fine,but these days it is living to eat.I had surgery due to lack of will power and in my opinion being too heavy to ride and finding everything such HARD work.It was my choice ,my money,and although a big step it was the best thing ever for me.Dieting is a miserable ,lonely and grumpy existence.


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## EAST KENT (16 June 2011)

PapaFrita said:



			Yes,it was hysterical when my aunt developed an eating disorder after being told she was fat (she was never more than a little bit plump) an addiction to slimming pills and then committed suicide. We still tell the story at birthdays and christmases.
		
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What a cheery little thought for you all at family gatherings..so do you have "big" kids ..do tell


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## PapaFrita (16 June 2011)

EAST KENT said:



			What a cheery little thought for you all at family gatherings..so do you have "big" kids ..do tell

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Yes, I do. Every one of them weighs over 20 stone, and I've been squeezing them out for years so I can get more benefits and a really big council house. Not one of them has a mouth or a sense of self importance as massive as yours


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## *hic* (16 June 2011)

EAST KENT said:



			Like anything else  it works if you work with it;no pigging out at office do`s ..cos more than likely you`ll end up vomiting.Dieting purely by will power almost always fails in the long term..the diet must be a new way of life,and very few,me included ,have the strength to continue life long.Very few "slimmers of the year " stay slim for long,and no wonder with food constantly ,in mags,on tv..everywhere.If as once we ate to live it would be fine,but these days it is living to eat.I had surgery due to lack of will power and in my opinion being too heavy to ride and finding everything such HARD work.It was my choice ,my money,and although a big step it was the best thing ever for me.Dieting is a miserable ,lonely and grumpy existence.
		
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Sadly the number of ex-surgery patients with terrible tales to tell who are now back at WeightWatchers, SlimmingWorld etc with their health ruined and having gained nearly all they had lost is on the increase. I wish more were made of these sad cases, it might stimulate a lot of other fatties, like me, to actually TRY to lose weight rather than waiting for the "Magic" op. My own sister, who is approaching twice my weight, seems to have given up again, saying that she knows surgery is inevitable so she might as well enjoy her food now, I could slap her for her stupidity, especially as in childhood she was underweight and on supplements to build her up whereas I have been restricted on what I can eat since I was a baby.


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## PapaFrita (16 June 2011)

EAST KENT said:



			Like anything else  it works if you work with it;no pigging out at office do`s ..cos more than likely you`ll end up vomiting.Dieting purely by will power almost always fails in the long term..the diet must be a new way of life,and very few,me included ,have the strength to continue life long.Very few "slimmers of the year " stay slim for long,and no wonder with food constantly ,in mags,on tv..everywhere.If as once we ate to live it would be fine,but these days it is living to eat.I had surgery due to lack of will power and in my opinion being too heavy to ride and finding everything such HARD work.It was my choice ,my money,and although a big step it was the best thing ever for me.Dieting is a miserable ,lonely and grumpy existence.
		
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Funny... I thought I said very much the same thing, only more eloquently. AND I said that the surgery was far from being an easy option. Are you too intent on arguing with me to actually read what I write? 
Actually, don't bother answering. It's clear you're not really interested in healthy debate


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## kerilli (16 June 2011)

jenki13 said:



			Sorry forgot to say my height, I am indeed 5'4" ! I was actually 10.5 stone if not a little heavier then. No apologies l wouldn't have minded what weight you said I was... I was just wondering how well you guessed weight. 

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Ah, I wasn't very far out then! that's a big relief, i was dreading that i might have offended you. i think i'm fairly good at guessing weight actually, as long as i know how tall someone is...

re: the dieting stuff - yes, it's bloody difficult, no question. sweet carby food is EVERYWHERE, plus we have been trained for decades to treat ourselves with it. it has taken me over a month of strict low carbing to turn off my little inner voice (i really do have one, it's most odd) which says, after a long day, or whenever i'm tired, "you deserve chocolate chip cookies." it has a choc chip cookie fixation. and a cadbury's buttons fixation.  

i think if i had gastric band surgery but was still in the grip of my carboholism then i'd be one of those who liquidises mars bars, melts Ben & Jerry's to slurp etc. i don't think it's the easy answer AT ALL.


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## EAST KENT (16 June 2011)

PapaFrita said:



			Yes, I do. Every one of them weighs over 20 stone, and I've been squeezing them out for years so I can get more benefits and a really big council house. Not one of them has a mouth or a sense of self importance as massive as yours 

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Oh wonderful ,thanks for a real good chuckle!


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## EAST KENT (16 June 2011)

jemima_too said:



			Sadly the number of ex-surgery patients with terrible tales to tell who are now back at WeightWatchers, SlimmingWorld etc with their health ruined and having gained nearly all they had lost is on the increase. I wish more were made of these sad cases, it might stimulate a lot of other fatties, like me, to actually TRY to lose weight rather than waiting for the "Magic" op. My own sister, who is approaching twice my weight, seems to have given up again, saying that she knows surgery is inevitable so she might as well enjoy her food now, I could slap her for her stupidity, especially as in childhood she was underweight and on supplements to build her up whereas I have been restricted on what I can eat since I was a baby.
		
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Honestly I fail to see how that CAN happen,it would be interesting to hear just how they achieved their weight gain.Sorry about your sister,with that frame of mind it probably will not work very well for her.As said before,the clinics make you show willing by losing a fair bit first. Oh dear PF seems cross


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## *hic* (16 June 2011)

EAST KENT said:



			Honestly I fail to see how that CAN happen,it would be interesting to hear just how they achieved their weight gain.
		
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Oh it's quite easy really. You start off carefully on the diet following surgery and the weight drops. Apparently, and this is according to a girl who had had gastric banding, you then start to feel that you are in control at last so you start to eat the "wrong" foods because hey, you can't eat much so you're going to carry on losing weight, but now you're beginning to stretch what stomach you have left and you're still craving the naughty stuff but you know you're going to carry on losing weight because you've had surgery but then you aren't losing as fast so you get a bit miserable and to cheer yourself up you eat more of the bad stuff on top of what you're supposed to be eating but you still know you can't overeat because you have so little stomach but you manage to eat a bit more each day and you always feel hungry and you've gone up a clothes size so you feel bad so you eat something to make you feel good  . . . and it all just goes back on.  I can't be bothered to go into the health problems that can be caused either by the surgery, or the weight loss or as a result of over eating and horrendously overstretching the remaining stomach.

I'm surprised that you didn't research it before having it done.


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## EAST KENT (17 June 2011)

Well that could happen to a complete numpty..however as mine was six years ago now it ain`t happening here. Never did believe in wasting money.But please,can you not now produce an example? And were they bypasses on the NHS or bands ,payed for? Yes,if you consumed say four MarsBars in a day..2000 calories..that would be stupid,but sure as Hell there`d be no room for any other intake.


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## Wagtail (17 June 2011)

Amelie12 said:



			Hi! This is my first ever post on H&H.  I am just under 15 stone and have a 15.3hh Friesian who seems happy to carry me for 'happy hacking'.  I did a lot of research into this, and the most common answer seems to be that a horse can carry up to 20% of its own weight, but you need to look at the horse's conformation, the rider's ability, the work being asked of the horse and so on.  For example, A long back, a wobbly rider and hunting all day all result in you needing to take a big reduction in that figure of 20%.  I hope this is useful...it's an intersting debate!
		
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Agree with this. Thanks


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## sidesaddlegirl (17 June 2011)

bakedbean said:



			sidesaddlegirl...you are NEVER 13.5 stone 

very smart
		
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LOL thank you!


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## DragonSlayer (17 June 2011)

I read this at first...with interest.

THEN I thought I had walked into the Year 8 year room.

Some of you need your heads banging together, a good kick up the arse and bringing down several pegs.

If some of you behave how you post.....

No words to say, without being banned


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