# cuts in the corners of the mouth - any ideas appreciated



## fatpony (28 September 2014)

Hi
I have a problem with my cob getting cuts/rubs in the corner of his mouth. They aren't right at the crease/highest point, they are about 1cm forward from the crease on the lower lips. I use vaseline when I ride and when they cut I rest him and use vaseline to help them heal. They first appeared after we went cross country for the first time and he was very strong so pressure and strength of contact is obviously part of the problem but this was a one off - he isn't normally strong and we usually hack with quite a loose rein and they are still coming back.
I think the part of the problem is that he has really fleshy lips and Im not sure if the bit is pinching? or rubbing because of this.
He was originally in a drop noseband and full cheek snaffle. For other reasons I changed him into a flash but this did seem to make things worse though I can't quite work out why although my instructor says that he can slightly open his mouth in the drop so maybe this helps.  I haven't consistently tried him in a cavesson but thats my next plan. The full cheek was rubbing between the arms of the bit and his cavesson so i changed that to a D ring (french link
Just wondering if anyone had experience of this problem and had any ideas that might help - for example - changing the thickness of the bit or type of bit. Could it be something simple like noseband positioned wrongly as both the drop and the flash obviously affect where the bit sits. 
Any ideas would be appreciated.
Thanks


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## Meowy Catkin (28 September 2014)

I would try a different bit. I just don't see any point in continuing with jointed snaffles and straps to hold the mouth shut, when the horse is being damaged repeatedly. 

I would look into straight bar curb bits. A mullen mouth kimblewick for example, possibly with a low port or maybe a happy mouth one, teamed with a cavesson is worth trying. You could also try a kineton noseband instead of the cavesson, which might be very good for this horse and his problems. If you still have this issue, then bitless would be next on the list. You can always swap back to the snaffle for dressage only.


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## fatpony (28 September 2014)

Is a jointed snaffle more likely to cause cuts?
The bits were chosen with his big fat fleshy tongue in mind. I've tried a Mullen mouth and he didn't like it at all. I am thinking of a bitless but have no experience if them and not sure if they will rub his soft fleshy chops. He rubs on his face very easily. Any advice on that would be great.  

Eta - I tried the Mullen mouth long before the issues with mouth cutting.


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## Fides (28 September 2014)

Do you have a picture of how it sits when stood and also ridden?


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## fatpony (28 September 2014)

No pics as on my phone.


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## be positive (28 September 2014)

Does he get a wet mouth when working? if not I would encourage that as it will help prevent it getting dry and splitting giving a polo or two when you start exercise and one at intervals throughout may help. Vaseline is not going to help much I would use something like sudacreme that will last longer and stay where it is put.
It sounds as if it is the noseband pressing rather than the bit causing the actual damage, using a cavesson would be worth a try, just take the bottom strap off and see if that helps, big fleshy mouthed horses often prefer a thinner bit but sometimes the less obvious is the way to go, trial and error until you find the right combination.


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## fatpony (28 September 2014)

Thanks. Will try the cavesson alone next. Always thought flash would hold the bit still in the mouth so less rubbing but maybe its pinching


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## Fun Times (28 September 2014)

It does sound like its the flash that is the culprit and i think swapping out of that will probably help. However I would also check that the bit is high enough in his mouth. You mention that you had thought that the flash would help keep the bit still in his mouth but really that shouldnt be the flash's job. If the cuts are in front of the crease is there a chance you have the bit too low/cheekpieces too slack so that everything is getting pinched as the bit moves about and the flash holds his mouth shut?


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## SkewbyTwo (28 September 2014)

Stop sawing! This and this alone cuts horses' mouths.


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## Meredith (28 September 2014)

Just a thought, I once had a bit that was sharp on the join of the cheeks and mouthpiece. It took us ages to discover what caused the cuts on the corner of the mouth.


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## fatpony (28 September 2014)

I don't saw. As I said, the first time it started when we went cross country and he got incredibly strong. I didn't saw, I just held on. He leans and gets on his forehand generally. Which puts the pressure. And yes I do school him to try get him off his forehand.


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## Mrs. Jingle (28 September 2014)

Avacello gel bit guards - brilliant bit of kit.


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## Rum Tum (28 September 2014)

another one for Acavallo gel bits guards - solve this problem completely. If horses get strong, they tend to break their own mouths and then difficult to heal and stay healed as the tissue is soft and they keep redoing it.  We had a pony with this problem and used to ride him in a hackamore till healed, but new owners have used gel bit guards and havent had a problem since.  You can get them from Horse Health on line - not expensive either


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## fatpony (28 September 2014)

Thanks. Lots of things to try. Once he has healed i will change to a cavesson and try the bit guards and give him a treat to encourage some salivation. None if these things are bad things to do anyway so may as well try them all at once.  I'm wondering if they've never totally healed from the cross country although they looked to have healed.


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## Christmas Crumpet (28 September 2014)

Those bit guards look absolutely amazing - what a fab idea!!


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## lamlyn2012 (28 September 2014)

SkewbyTwo said:



			Stop sawing! This and this alone cuts horses' mouths.
		
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Not true. I had this with one and I don't saw! 
Changed to a ported kimblewick which solved the problem. Used bonjella when her mouth was sore.


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## nikkimariet (28 September 2014)

SkewbyTwo said:



			Stop sawing! This and this alone cuts horses' mouths.
		
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Huge generalisation.

Fig split his mouth last year when galloping on the stubble fields... I've actually found either elizabeth 8 hour cream (originally created for horses) or a cracked nipple cream (yes!) that has lanolin in it works best at a, healing and b, preventing the skin splitting again.

It is worth checking the fit of the bit as it was partly the too big weymouth snaffle that pinched (but mostly Fig buggering off like a freight train on crack). Problem solved by using a hackamore, but I do put lanolin on before every ride and the skin is so thin and sensitive there. Such a ****** to heal that I'd rather apply it pre every ride just in case!


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## Kati*89 (28 September 2014)

To help with the healing you can use piles cream, germoloid does the trick, antiseptic and shrinks the cut really quick..


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## Pearlsasinger (28 September 2014)

If your horse is opening his mouth, or trying to, he is telling you that he is uncomfortable.  I assume this was happening before he cut his lips.  It does sound as if his bit might be too low but equally single jointed bits rarely suit horses with fleshy lips and fat tongues.  
I like mullen-mouthed bits for horses with this conformation but if your horse doesn't, what about a bit with a lozenge?  I would keep experimenting with borrowed bits until you find the one that he likes best.  You could either borrow from friends or hire from a bit bank.  My local tack shop used to run a very cheap hire service.


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## fatpony (29 September 2014)

Pearlsasinger said:



			If your horse is opening his mouth, or trying to, he is telling you that he is uncomfortable.  I assume this was happening before he cut his lips.  It does sound as if his bit might be too low but equally single jointed bits rarely suit horses with fleshy lips and fat tongues.  
I like mullen-mouthed bits for horses with this conformation but if your horse doesn't, what about a bit with a lozenge?  I would keep experimenting with borrowed bits until you find the one that he likes best.  You could either borrow from friends or hire from a bit bank.  My local tack shop used to run a very cheap hire service.
		
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Maybe you are right as he seems happier when in the drop where apparently he can slightly open the mouth, but its more when he relaxes he leans on my hand and opens his mouth slightly rather than he is opening to avoid contact. Though I know horses can react in many different ways to pain not always backing off. Anyway the cavesson is going on loosely so we will see what happens. He has a french link now so I assume that would be more comfortable?


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## Horsemad12 (29 September 2014)

It seems a strange place to rub, is it rubbing then at the front of the bit where the flash strap sits?

By the sound of it I would think it is the strap rather than the bit causing the problem.  Did it rub this way on both sides?

There are lots of things to help healing but a break works the best!


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## fatpony (29 September 2014)

Horsemad12 said:



			It seems a strange place to rub, is it rubbing then at the front of the bit where the flash strap sits?

By the sound of it I would think it is the strap rather than the bit causing the problem.  Did it rub this way on both sides?

There are lots of things to help healing but a break works the best!
		
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Thanks - he is having a break just now and when he starts back I'll bin the flash strap - I am hoping that is the problem because we've never had this issue before


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## Baydame (29 September 2014)

A few things:

Agree with using something other than Vaseline. My girl gets effol bit butter on the creases of her mouth and 2 sugar cubes before each ride. Nice and slobbery.

Try using copper/german silver bits.

I use a drop to steady the bit in my mares mouth. I use a baucher cheek piece as it is very steady. An egg but might be another option.
Did you use keepers with the full cheek?

Agree that checking or playing around with length of cheek pieces could help. 

Teeth done recently?

Is it a true French link or a lozenge? Horses with not a lot of mouth room can find lozenges uncomfortable as they press against roof of mouth/tongue.

For going out xc, fast work, jumping, etc try using a German hackamore with your snaffle bit. Use the hackamore as your curb rein. I've found it to be a nice solution to horses that like to go, but get heavy on the forehand, (and small, sensitive, mouths).

Good luck!! Hope everything gets sorted for you


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## Marydoll (29 September 2014)

If doing fast work where they might take a pull, you could try a myler combination snaffle, the bit only rolls round so far then the noseband  part of he combination comes in to play spreading any pressure if they take a hold,I used this with bit butte on my tb with a sensitive mouth to good effect


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## Christmas Crumpet (30 September 2014)

Just to say that with regards cleaning up the cuts - I've been using Hypocare twice a day for the last 48 hours on my mare and then some piles cream and the cuts are pretty much gone. I did ride in a dually head collar this morning which I thought was fairly inspired (and pony was fab). Hypocare or Vetericin are both ideal because you can use them around the mouth and eyes.


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## LegOn (30 September 2014)

Sometimes the bit can be too high in the mouth & the flash makes it worse cause its holding it up in a high position - honestly, try lowering the bit a hole each side! Also if the bit is too big (in length) it can also add to the problem but just try letting it down a hole first! 

Also hemorrhoid cream works really quickly for healing up those cuts


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## Rum Tum (30 September 2014)

While you are looking up the bit guards, have a look at Bit Butter too.  Its great stuff.


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## Queenbee (30 September 2014)

If the bit is fat at the edges, it could be stretching the corners of the lips not actually pinching them, I wonder if this is the case as you say he is a cob and cobs tend to have quite fleshy lips/mouths.  Ive recently come to the realisation that with my boy, I can use any sort of fat bit in his mouth.  I was trialing him in a continental gag for jumping, i hacked him on for a while to get him used to the bit and noticed the the corners of his mouth got split, they did not heal, vasaline didnt help, I let it go for a few days to see if it would settle and then one day i tacked him up, went to get my hat, came to get him out of his stable and his mouth was already splitting and weeping, it was very clear that the bit was stretching his mouth at the corners.  Much as i get the fact that fatter bits are supposed to be kinder, for my boy they certainly are not, its another bit to add to my list of redundants!


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## ginger_dressage_pony (6 October 2014)

One of mine gets runs and sores in the corners of his mouth really easily, again not always right where his bit sits, he has a very sensitive mouth in general, it doesn't take much before he gets marks which would soon get sore. I now use bit butter every time I ride, it makes a huge difference, I put plenty all around the corners of his mouth, it makes him so slobbery that his mouth is then wet enough that nothing runs then anyway. I would put some more on between tests, or between warmup and tests, (competing affiliated elementary) and I think it's makes a world of difference. Might be worth a try!?


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## Christmas Crumpet (6 October 2014)

Which bit butter do you all use? I see that there is the Original one, an Effol one, an Equine America one and a Gold Label one!!


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## Cortez (6 October 2014)

Queenbee said:



			If the bit is fat at the edges, it could be stretching the corners of the lips not actually pinching them, I wonder if this is the case as you say he is a cob and cobs tend to have quite fleshy lips/mouths.  Ive recently come to the realisation that with my boy, I can use any sort of fat bit in his mouth.  I was trialing him in a continental gag for jumping, i hacked him on for a while to get him used to the bit and noticed the the corners of his mouth got split, they did not heal, vasaline didnt help, I let it go for a few days to see if it would settle and then one day i tacked him up, went to get my hat, came to get him out of his stable and his mouth was already splitting and weeping, it was very clear that the bit was stretching his mouth at the corners.  Much as i get the fact that fatter bits are supposed to be kinder, for my boy they certainly are not, its another bit to add to my list of redundants!
		
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Actually I see that latest research has concluded that fat bits are NOT kinder and the narrower, thinner ones are less uncomfortable. I think it depends on how much room there is in each particular horse's mouth. Just a thought: does the OP's cob have pink lips by any chance?


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## EquiEquestrian556 (6 October 2014)

I had a similar problem, and found putting bit guards aka bit rings on helps a lot. Also, a substance called 'Bit Butter' also really helps, plus my mare really loves the taste and is a lot softer on the bit, here is the link: http://www.horsehealth.co.uk/essentials/first-aid/lotions-potions/bit-butter I'd recommend buying the small travel size first to see if it works, it does still last long. 

Try to avoid loose ring type bits, i.e dutch gags, loose ring snaffles, all bits with a loose ring action on the cheeks should be avoided.


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## EquiEquestrian556 (6 October 2014)

SkewbyTwo said:



			Stop sawing! This and this alone cuts horses' mouths.
		
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I disagree. I used to occasionally and VERY gently saw my previous gelding who was very strong, and he NEVER got cut lips. It can be a number of things that cause a horse's mouth to split, dryness, a loose ring bit, harsh hands, so I disagree that sawing causes cuts on horses' mouths unless it's very harsh. Besides, OP said she doesn't saw.


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## fatpony (6 October 2014)

Cortez said:



			Actually I see that latest research has concluded that fat bits are NOT kinder and the narrower, thinner ones are less uncomfortable. I think it depends on how much room there is in each particular horse's mouth. Just a thought: does the OP's cob have pink lips by any chance?
		
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He has got pink lips, and is quite fleshy/wrinkly.

Update - Cuts have healed and Ive tried a few bits for size/shape. He was in a 4 1/2 inch which looked fine but when I tried a 5 inch there was a little light bulb moment where I realised the 5 inch was a much better fit. Im kicking myself for not realising but Id never considered that his mouth would grow. He's been in a 4 1/2 inch for 2 and a half years without any problems or rubs so Im sure it fitted originally. I'm hoping this was the cause but if not its definitely a change that needed to be made.


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## MillionDollar (7 October 2014)

SkewbyTwo said:



			Stop sawing! This and this alone cuts horses' mouths.
		
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Not true at all! 

I have a 5yo WB who is evented by a proessional and we had huge problems with her mouth being very sore, to the point of it bleeding. We allowed it to heal by using a hackamore for 2 weeks and then put her in a hanging cheek only for flatwork, she wears the hackamore for sjing too. Has solved the problem and she's absolutely fine now.


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