# Older dog bares teeth new pup



## Willza (19 February 2011)

I made the decision to get a second malamute today, the new pup is 8 weeks old, healthy and quite playful but not boisterous (yet). One problem though, my older (5 yo) malamute seems to be having some serious issues accepting it into the house.

I have a relatively good amount of experience in handling dogs and have read around the subject of introductions with pups and got some advice from friends, so I was expecting there to be an "introductory phase" where I would have to supervise the two until they got on ok.

The older malamute however seems to be acting quite agressively towards the pup with very little provocation. Even from a few meters away if my older Mal catches the pup looking at her in a way she doesn't like then she starts growling and baring her teeth. I'm quite surprised at this as I have other friends dogs in the house sometimes and she doesn't react in this way to them.

Is this something that others have heard of? any hints or tips about introducing the two with minimal risk to the youngster?


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## SusieT (19 February 2011)

Get a crate so that you can allow older dog to see/sniff pup and vice versa with no risk to either dog. (I would have a crate big enough to alternate who goes in it, that;s how I've done it before albeit with small breeds so I only needed a small crate!)  Make sure its strong enough though to withstand any attack given that your dog is a big powerful dog. 
I would also be telling off the older one for growling/teeth baring. You are in charge and you say this is a new friend, so the older one must accept that.
It is possible the older one will not accept no. 2, but you have to perservere for a qhile to discover this!


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## friesian80 (19 February 2011)

If your older dog was the only dog in the house before pup came along her nose will probably be out of place, your right there should be an introduction phase where the older dog will correct the pup, teach it certain behaviour towards it wont be tolerated, guarding a sleeping area etc, for this period I would usually let the older dog get on with it but as you say monitor the situation just in case things go too far.
However if a fair bit of time has passed you may have to step in and correc the older dog, she has had her time to teach the pup the basics and if she is showing aggression I would be telling the older dog off, she needs to know that the pup is now a part of the pack and as you are pack leader you need to teach her this sort of behaviour towards the younger member wont be tolerated.
It is extremely unusual for an older dog to actually go for a puppy but in this instance Id be very careful and definately put your foot down with the older dog.

Good luck and I hope they do in fact become friends, I guess time will tell but your interaction will hopefully help speed up the process.


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## CAYLA (19 February 2011)

It is a natual behaviou fo many adult dogs when faced with a little cicker of a puppy.
I agree with what has been suggested, cate training the puppy would be a must, moe than anything u need a safe pace for the pup duing unsupervised times and this will alow the pup to emain in the adult dogs company.
Do not leave food or toys down for now as this could heighten the adult dogs reaction if the pup approaches them, play with the puppy with toys, but then box them when u are finished and only give treats when the pup is cated when u are not there.
There is a difference between a puppy that needs a warning for pestering and a dog that warns shows aggression just at the presence of a puppy, the latter would be reprimanded by me.

Try and occupy the pup and burn some energy off and let the older dog see the pup in a sleepy/calm state aswell as an active state.
It should subside but may take a little while and a stern warning from u each time this behaviour is displayed.


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## CorvusCorax (20 February 2011)

Your post said the pup was got...today? Speedy.

Please give your older dog some time.

If your older dog meant what it said, your pup would be dead already.

As mentioned, crate and common sense, in large doses


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## Willza (20 February 2011)

Ok so I already have a crate where the older dog can see the pup to get used to it's presence but she's still snarling at it from time to time through the bars when it starts getting playful and I woke up this morning to some pretty angry snarling and snapping (this hadn't been going on all night just when the pup woke up).

I think it would help if the pup understood the older dog's body language and showed the right deference but I don't want to allow the puppy to get harmed in the process. Also I think I need to show the older one who is in charge (ie me) and let her know that, whilst she is entitled to her say about a rude puppy of lower status in the pack, over the top aggression wont be tolerated.

Still easier said than done and if anyone has some good techniques to help me here they'd be appreciated.


Any thanks for all the advice posted so far!


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## friesian80 (20 February 2011)

Have you actually established yourself pack leader to your dog?  The reason I ask is many ppl dont bother putting their dogs in place which can sometimes work ok (although Id never recommend it) when you are a 1 dog family but when another is introduced to the family you can fall upon serious problems such as this.
Even teaching the older dog commands such as sit, down, heel, leave, wait etc etc can help make the dog realise you are in charge and will make the process of introducing the pup much easier.  Has your older dog been properly socialised with other dogs?  Joining a local dog club would really help your situation if your dog is not used to being around other canines, not only can you work on training but to get your dog used to be being in other dog company can work wonders.
Believe me you need to be firm and nip this in the bud now, you cant 'teach' the pup to be submissive towards the older dog it is your duty to control the situation over the older dog and make it realsie agression towards the pup will not be tolerated.


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## CorvusCorax (20 February 2011)

Sorry if I sounded sharp last night OP.

If it makes you feel any better, I fell backwards off my bed onto the floor, shortly after I typed it


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## CAYLA (20 February 2011)

Willza said:



			Ok so I already have a crate where the older dog can see the pup to get used to it's presence but she's still snarling at it from time to time through the bars when it starts getting playful and I woke up this morning to some pretty angry snarling and snapping (this hadn't been going on all night just when the pup woke up).

I think it would help if the pup understood the older dog's body language and showed the right deference but I don't want to allow the puppy to get harmed in the process. Also I think I need to show the older one who is in charge (ie me) and let her know that, whilst she is entitled to her say about a rude puppy of lower status in the pack, over the top aggression wont be tolerated.

Still easier said than done and if anyone has some good techniques to help me here they'd be appreciated.


Any thanks for all the advice posted so far!
		
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As CC suggests, it's very early days, do u have a cover over the crate to A, stop it being vocal towards the older dog as this is the first thing she will see when she wakes and B, to help u get a better lie in as pups tend to wake when it breaks light.

It would be easier if pup was vaxed as you could walk them together which is the easiest to get them used to one another rather than a face to face thing.
I would be using a voice command of "leave it", as suggested it far easier to reprimand a dog when u already have respect from that dog and it knows the boundaries, rather than introducing them ontop of this kind of situation, but you are going to have to start.
If she was growling/bearing teeth at pup from a distance then I would remove her from the area for time out with a stern voice command. Allow her back in after a short period with no fuss, and give her a chance once more.  Send her away for aslong as it takes fo her to remain neutral or even get down to a growl rather than teeth bearing and showing OTT aggression.
Always give her a chance to go away in her own space.
Don't at this stage allow the pup to jump on her or pester, but walking around is fine, and if the older dog reacts then step in and "voice you own" opinion (firmly)
Call her over when the pup is close to you and offer a stroke or a treat, make it quick with minimal fuss as a positive associator.
If I have a new pup or dog, I only have to say "you do" and my dogs will sit stern and will not respond because they know to regard me or their will be a consiquence.
It is still as suggested very early days, my akita is not very tolerant of puppies but when I'm present she knows better than to react, she would rather take herself away from the situation (which she is given ample opportunity) 

How is the older dogs behaviour in general? age? dog/bitch?
Does she regard you when reprimanded by voice?
If you need to reprimand, how do u do it?


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## Willza (20 February 2011)

friesian80 said:



			Have you actually established yourself pack leader to your dog?
		
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My Mal is quite submissive towards people, she certainly know's she is below myself and my partner in the "pack". We can remove food, bones or toys with no sign of agression and she responds well to commands. 



CaveCanem said:



			Sorry if I sounded sharp last night OP.

If it makes you feel any better, I fell backwards off my bed onto the floor, shortly after I typed it   

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lol, thats ok just grateful to hear others opinions on this.



CAYLA said:



			I would be using a voice command of "leave it", as suggested it far easier to reprimand a dog when u already have respect from that dog and it knows the boundaries, rather than introducing them ontop of this kind of situation, but you are going to have to start...

If she was growling/bearing teeth at pup from a distance then I would remove her from the area for time out with a stern voice command. Allow her back in after a short period with no fuss, and give her a chance once more.  Send her away for aslong as it takes fo her to remain neutral or even get down to a growl rather than teeth bearing and showing OTT aggression...

How is the older dogs behaviour in general? age? dog/bitch?
Does she regard you when reprimanded by voice?
If you need to reprimand, how do u do it?
		
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She's quite good already with voice reprimands, she knows when she has done something wrong and a sharp "oi" is usually enough; but with the puppy on the scene I have had to shove her on occaison to snap her out of it.

Separation to give the older dog a break sounds good advice, it would give her time to wind down before she has to put up with the pup again - would you advise against leaving the puppy in a crate in the same room at night?

my older mal is 5, a bitch (the pup is a dog) and good as gold usually no real behavioural problems but she can be dominant with other dogs and especially bitchs

Thanks for all the help!


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## CAYLA (20 February 2011)

Pesoanally I would leave them in the same room, maybe not right beside each other for now but def in the same room for bed time or when u go out aslong as pup is in crate and leave something positive for them both (kongs) but lift them as soon as you get home.
Use a blanket to cover the crate.
Always give the elder an escape, but if she wants to remain in the same area as u or pup she has to calm the aggressive behaviour, this is when you should send her out.
If I use a firm repimand for really OTT/dangeous behaviour they get a cesar style dig in the side and a vocal reprimand, otherwise tell "no" or word of choice and send her out or take her by the collar and send her out, then invite he back in after 5 mins and allow her to remain in by displaying the behaviour you want.
This way you are using a negative enforcer by removing her from what she seeks, your company/attention.
Obs this is only for any bahviour the puppy does not want a telling off for, like simply being in eye line.
The puppy is to young to take a reprimand fom the dog at this stage, esp if she means business.


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## celfyddydau (20 February 2011)

Firstly do not under any circumstances tell the older dog off in anyway whatsoever, especially raising your voice or hitting the older dog.  What the older one will learn is that the people go crazy around the pup and s/he gets the brunt of it and therefore the pup is bad news and any aggression will be hightened.

Pack leader is old wives tales, dogs do not understand it it is a human construct and David Mech who invented it has spent the past 10 yrs telling people what a load of old cobblers it is.

A crate and baby gates and management of the situation is the best way to go.  Don't leave stuff lying around, chews toys etc as these are valuable resouces for your older dog and pup investigating them may cause conflict.

Pups unto about 6 months old have what it called puppy licence and your older dog is very unlikely to cause serious damage, but the old swearing and teaching of acceptable manners is to be expected.

Think of things from the older dog's POV.  How would you like some stranger turning up in your house and using your stuff?

If you are having issues then speak to a qualified trainer with the backing of a reputable organisation such as the APDT.


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## CAYLA (20 February 2011)

Whilst I dont totally agree with the above it is a valid opinon and OP it is up to you to take what you want advice wise, thats the beauty of the forum.

I strongly believe in leadership (not in the way of, I go though the door first and I get fed first lol) but by way of contol/guidance definately, and I would never beable to bring new dogs into a pack of 10 rescues on a constant basis without my dogs knowing who their leader is. I never have issues with my dogs believing the new dog is the instigation of all evil because they are reprimanded for any behaviour they show towards the dog or puppy "that I do not deem acceptible" infact within hours they will be playing with the self and same pup or dog or will simply avoid play in the case of the akita who is not a puppy lover but would not bare teeth or growl unless they where upon her.
But then my dogs are never given anything to own as such, nothing is theirs and the house is mine, not theirs, so I say who/what comes and goes.
I had a puppy pointer run up to my akita today, infact it proceeded to squirm, wriggle and pester and jump on her the deerhound, akita, lurcher and shaggy rufus and without a warning from me, the pup would have been injured pretty badly, esp as I could never have gotten there in time before my akita would have caused serious damage and it was only 10 foot steps away from me (the pointers owner) was a huge distance away bellowing of it, but a "leave it" from me saw her return to me, this is because she has been reprimanded in the past and knows what is expected of her and will indeed look for guidance befoe making her move and knows to do as I say/command, esp when she came into me with serious aggression issues. (I find this control gives my dogs a huge amount of feedom in turn)
I like to control my dogs via a voice command if needed, because A, I dont want the behaviour to esculate and B, They need guidance as to what is acceptible behaviour.

I do agree u can only get so much from a forum and if it continued and worried you and you wanted further guidance even a certified behaviourist like myself and others on the forum cannot give the same as someone talking to you face to face and physically seeing your bitches reactions/body language.
It's actually hard to give info over the net when and describe things in full detail as you would when dealing with the situation.

But the beauty is we have choice and can take the advice we feel comfortable with or makes sense given the situation or indeed seek one on one advice.
OP Im sure you have/will do this.


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## CAYLA (20 February 2011)

Please excuse the lack of RRRRRRRR's, Im still having to slam them in.


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## Willza (20 February 2011)

celfyddydau said:



			Firstly do not under any circumstances tell the older dog off in anyway whatsoever, especially raising your voice or hitting the older dog...

Pack leader is old wives tales, dogs do not understand it it is a human construct and David Mech who invented it has spent the past 10 yrs telling people what a load of old cobblers it is...


Think of things from the older dog's POV.  How would you like some stranger turning up in your house and using your stuff?
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Thanks for this celfyddydau, I appreciate what your saying here and I agree that the canine social heirachy is way more subtle and complex than the simple "I dominate you follow or else" line of thinking, it should depend on the situation and the dog character. 

Whilst I prefer to use positive re-enforcement I do find that negative re-enforcement is also a useful and at times necessary tool if used correctly, especially with some of the more strong headed breeds.  This does not mean "hitting" the dog, this means appropriate correction to remind them that I deserve their respect.

I like the analogy of a stranger turning up at my house and using my stuff it's a good reminder of how the older one must feel.


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## celfyddydau (21 February 2011)

just for clarity

   1. Positive reinforcement adds something to the situation to increase the chance of the behaviour being exhibited again. - IE giving a reward

   2. Negative reinforcement removes something from the situation to increase the chance of the behaviour being exhibited again. IE pressing on the hips to get a sit then stopping the pressing when the dog sits.

   3. Positive punishment adds something to the situation to decrease the chance of the behaviour being exhibited again. IE telling off, hitting, corrections, use of choke chain etc

   4. Negative punishment removes something from the situation to decrease the chance of the behaviour being exhibited again. IE not giving attention to a dog that is junping up

Hope this helps


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## CorvusCorax (21 February 2011)

And all of that - ie - dog thinking - If I DON'T do that, something good happens/If I DO do this, something not so good happens - depends on each and every individual dog


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## Willza (21 February 2011)

Just in case anyone was interested how this is turning out, I have been using a lot of positive attention and the odd correction where necessary for the older dog who has started to calm down about the pups presence.

Also I took some advice from a local vet/behaviourist and when the moment was right allowed them to roam free together in a controlled way in a neutral place. The older one quickly asserted itself over the pup when it got too cocky and that was that, no damage done. 

Turns out I should probably have trusted my steady older dog a bit more.


thanks to all who posted on this.


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## CAYLA (21 February 2011)

I'm pleased to hear that, just shows a bit of both can wok as well as one or the other
I always find the odd correction (as that is all that is really needed) with a bit of positive association/rewarding does the job nicely.
Are we gonna see some piccies


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