# Lady Masters and Pink Coats



## GoblinPony (11 January 2013)

Hi, 

I've always presumed that according to hunting etiquette only gentlemen could wear pinks, and lady Masters should be clad in black or navy coats. I know that in the USA ladies wear pink coats, but I have always thought it was exclusively American deviation from tradition (or should I say, their own tradition). However, in the last week's issue of _Horse&Hound_ there was a picture of a lady Master in a pink coat. Is it acceptable then? I'm new to hunting and sometimes feel appallingly ignorant.


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## combat_claire (11 January 2013)

Traditionally Lady Masters were expected to wear navy or black. Certainly our pack maintains this tradition. The difficulty comes when they also act field master. 

Our last gentleman master was easily identifiable as being the only chap in the field wearing scarlet (obviously huntsman and whipper-in were also in scarlet). Our lady master is nowhere near as visible and once this season part of the field followed the person sent on point by accident.


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## Hunters (12 January 2013)

I think that ladies (unless they are hunting hounds or whipping in) look wrong in pink. Call me old fashioned, but stick to the traditional methods.


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## Sherston (13 January 2013)

This could be an interesting thread.... In summary I agree with Hunters, however..

Most "current" (in the broadest possible sense!) hunting tradition started from about 1820 where the wearing of red or scarlet, (not pink in my book!) took over from previously yellow, green, blue etc mainly representing the uniform of the british army following the Napoleonic wars. Any female officers or enlisted soldiers? No.

Equally at this time a lady would be side saddle, with ladies riding astride being very much a post WW1 development. So there were lady masters prior to these times but has anyone seen a red habit?? 

The evolution of Blue or Black for ladies I think comes from these times.

One thing I don't know but would be very interested to know would be who was the first female hunt servant? Does anyone know? I know of a few currently - Woodland Pytchley, East Essex, previously the Fernie even, and as we see in the ring at Peterborough routinely now. Now I do support hunt servants wearing scarlet, visability safety etc.

As for the US - need I say more!

Any other thoughts, contribution or answer to the questions raised welcome.

Sherston


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## Herne (13 January 2013)

I think female hunt staff in hunt uniform is appropriate - although I have also seen female hunt staff dressed in navy and that looks fine, too.

Personally, I think a female master wearing a red coat looks as bizarre as a male master would who decided to wear a navy coat, navy hat, hairnet and make-up.

For me, the main problem is that I would be thinking "Why is she dressed like that?" And the answer would not be flattering. Some sort of whingy, feminsty "They can't tell me that I'm not allowed to wear what they wear" rubbish.

And far from making me think "Ooo. Strong, independent woman"; it would be making me think "Oh dear! _Massive_ inferiority complex! - and if she thinks that she is inferior, who am I to disagree..."


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## HuntingB (13 January 2013)

We have a female whip and she understandably wears a red coat. She's also the only professional I know, I assume there are others. Our female master wears a red collar.


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## Herne (13 January 2013)

A coloured collar is very sensible. Allows the field to identify you from behind.


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## VOM (13 January 2013)

Doesnt a red/scarlet/pink collar sole this problem sufficiently? For a lady master that is.


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## jess_asterix (13 January 2013)

Our lady master has a red collar on a navy jacket and this is sufficient to identify her.


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## iansmithpesty (13 January 2013)

red! NOT pink.


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## Hunters (13 January 2013)

Forgive me for stating the 'bleedin' obvious, but why don't the field listen carefully at the meet to find out who is who and who is the field master etc?

Note what he/she (field master) looks like & follow them - simples??


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## outofretirement (15 January 2013)

I was really interested to see this thread as both myself and my sister had the same opinion after seeing the photograph being discussed. 

Coming from a hunting background and returning to riding/hunting after a 10 year break I thought that maybe it was down to the "PC (politically correct) era due to our absence from the sport, however maybe not ?? 

I know for all the years we hunted we never saw any female wearing the traditional hunting pink ... i have hunted with several packs and often come across female masters and field masters, however these always presented themselves in either black or navy jackets (one wore navy with a coloured collar) and were often identified by the leather money bag they wore - or more often the case - we were taught to "identify" the main players before we left the meet - ie : masters, field master and also terriermen incase they were needed and we had to locate them .... 

Although ladies wearing the scarlet jacket may be an ever present thing - i have to say on personal opinion i think it looks a little odd


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## Orangehorse (15 January 2013)

I questioned, in a light hearted way, why the local lady master wasn't in scarlet and received a thoroughly squashing answer from the person I was talking to, the daughter of a previous Master.  Definitely NOT DONE.  Though I think a coloured coat collar would be a good idea.


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## solitairex (15 January 2013)

I saw on Countryfile the other day they were following a hunt and the lady master was in red. Looked awful and so so so incorrect!


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## Hunters (15 January 2013)

Lady masters should only be in black or navy...., that's all


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## silviovulpis (16 January 2013)

the term 'Pink' is an affectation used by people who don't usually hunt. Pink was the name of the tailor who made the first red hunting coats for army officers. The originals are still in the shop in London. Red should NEVER be worn by a female. the Americans are to be deplored generally and definitely in this case. A collar can be worn to identify the field master if really necessary.


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## tootsietoo (16 January 2013)

I think it absolutely makes sense for a female professional whip to wear a red coat.  It would seem "right".  But for any other woman to wear a red coat to me would look so odd!  Anyway, is it not the case that you can identify female masters from their coat buttons?  Four rather than three, and brass?  I don't think the field should need the field master to wear any identifying outfit.  If you are right behind her you will know who she is, if you are not, you just follow the rest of the field!


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## Herne (16 January 2013)

silviovulpis said:



			the term 'Pink' is an affectation used by people who don't usually hunt. Pink was the name of the tailor who made the first red hunting coats for army officers. The originals are still in the shop in London.
		
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Supposedly. 

This is the tale that I was brought up on (and which I still choose to beleive). It is also, supposedly, the origin of telling someone who looks well that they look "in the Pink", ie at the ultimate level of visual splendour.

However, there is no evidence that I have been able to unearth that there actaully was a Thomas Pink, Tailor in London in the 18-whatevers.

The Thomas Pink's in London now (who make shirts) is a very young business whose founders openly admit that they only used the name because of the legend.

Had the original Thomas Pink still been in business, they would not have been able to do that.

However, as many historical researchers fail to accept, the absence of evidence does not equal evidence of absence, so I shall continue to believe the story for the time being.


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## PortwayPaddy (16 January 2013)

solitairex said:



			I saw on Countryfile the other day they were following a hunt and the lady master was in red. Looked awful and so so so incorrect!
		
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If that was the one where one of the presenters acted as quarry for a Bloodhound pack, then that is the hunt I am a member of.

All our female masters wear red.

Much easier to follow when you are running two fields.

Paddy


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## Countryman (16 January 2013)

Bloodhounds I'd say it's fine. With foxhound packs, in my opinion, women Master's wearing scarlet just doesn't look right.


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## Nancykitt (16 January 2013)

What about harrier packs?


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## Herne (17 January 2013)

I think for the purposes of the conversation, you can assume that the principle applies to hunt uniform of whatever colour (except, obviously black or navy, where the point would be moot).


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