# Agents for horse shopping in Ireland?



## spinner1 (25 April 2017)

Hi everyone, after spending my weekend driving to opposite ends of the country to view 3 horses that aren't quite right, I'm looking into heading to Ireland to view a load in one go. I've had one recommendation for an agent via this forum already and was just wondering if there are others that people would recommend too? I've looked at past threads on here but  just wanted to check if it's still the same names to go to!!

Wish list is a smart, sane 5yo that has the basics in place and has done a couple of training shows, with potential to jump at least 1.20 and run novice. 16-16.2 and don't mind whether it's a mare or gelding. 

I know what prices I'm looking at for this over here assuming it's come through a professional yard - is there really any discount on price to be had buying in Ireland or will it be around the same? I'm not in a position to go for a just backed 4yo at the moment which seems to be where you potentially get really good value for money.

Thank you!!


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## Cortez (25 April 2017)

Why not come over to one of the larger sales at Goresbridge or Cavan? There will be hundreds of horses for sale, pre vetted and subject to further vetting if required.


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## spinner1 (25 April 2017)

Thank you. Is one better than the other in terms of quality of what's shown there or set up do you know?


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## Irish gal (25 April 2017)

We've spoken previously Spinner and I'm not saying this for any reason apart from forewarning you. If you're going to the sales here then you need a highly experienced horse person, preferably Irish with you.

There are wonderful horses to be bought there but there are also rushed horses, who will look good for the day under professional riders but can become unmanageable when they're brought home. Many people are simply not prepared to put the time and work into amateur horses, unfortunately, as they don't feel there's a big enough return on them.

I even know of one producer who was so infamous that UK professionals used to say his 'horses lost the ability to jump crossing the Irish sea'. What I'm saying is that it's actually more important to know who not to buy from at the sales than anything else.

So you'll need someone from the Irish horse industry with you or a British dealer who knows the score. Then you'll be properly equipped for the sales!

I sold a fab horse last summer to a lovely Scottish couple. They had previously picked up a bargain at Goresbridge. He wasn't such a bargain when he started rearing out hacking which seemed to be an unpleasant but ingrained habit.


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## spacefaer (25 April 2017)

will pm you


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## spinner1 (25 April 2017)

Thank you, again! I think I agree I wouldn't buy at a sale but could be an educational trip!


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## kamili (25 April 2017)

Just to give you an idea of what is out there here is a link to a site that people would use to advertise horses in Ireland.

Often times they might put up an advert for a horse that is going to one of the sales houses also, so gives an idea and photos of the horse too before you go.

https://www.donedeal.ie/equine

You really need to pick out the weeds on this site first though... so go in with your eyes wide open and question everything.


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## cundlegreen (25 April 2017)

Cortez said:



			Why not come over to one of the larger sales at Goresbridge or Cavan? There will be hundreds of horses for sale, pre vetted and subject to further vetting if required.
		
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I know a dealer over here, who said there were lots of dodgy sales at cavan. She buys at Spancil hill fair, where ever that is. Have you been in touch with Irish Gal on here?


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## Goldenstar (25 April 2017)

Denny Kerr is a well respected agent I think there's a FB page .
I would not head to the sales either I think you might get a bargain but you might get whole load of nasty trouble .
If you only have a few horses it's a risk if you are a dealer you take the rough with the smooth and dealing with  a few duds is part of the buisiness.


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## only_me (25 April 2017)

Smiths bro. Eventing in northern ireland (about 30mins drive from irish border) would be worth a trip. They have lots of nice horses and have a lot of contacts if want to try others


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## Irish gal (25 April 2017)

Absolutely Goldenstar and spotting the duds is not easy, as they're well disguised. I've been talking to the producers I deal with about this. What's commonly said now about the sales is that some of the horses are 'half broke' so just enough done to get through the day with a professional in the saddle. But I wouldn't like to be trying to get up on the same blood horse a week later in the UK - I'll put it like that! He would be showing his true level of experience then...

Spinner, the sales are educational and a great day out for horse lovers, nice to go for a look but pretty pressurised to buy at. Horses are shown in an arena where they're jumped and then it's fairly straight in after that to the sales ring. So a dealer/agent can make their mind up in a split second but for amateurs it can't be weighed up so quick. But the sales would make a great little horsey holiday just for a look round. Some smashing horses to see and all the players there in the Irish and British horse industry. Well worth a look alright.


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## Cortez (25 April 2017)

I live 12 miles from Cavan, happy to hold the hand of anyone wanting to come over for a look-see. I've bought horses in both Goresbridge and Cavan for many years and only once had a problem (own fault; the sire was famous for getting dodgy temperaments). You DO NOT have to go through some expensive yard or an agent who will be looking to make their own profit off a sale.


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## Irish gal (26 April 2017)

I think it all depends Cortez on what the person is looking for. Anyone can go on done deal, for instance and buy a horse cheap as chips. But they would very much want to know what they are doing and the quality of horses there is generally poor.

I get a lot of clients who are looking for their horse of a lifetime, as let's face it most amateurs are. If you're only going to have one horse and see that purchase as an investment, then it makes sense to go to the very good producers, what you term 'expensive yards'.

Why would horses produced by people who have produced Olympic horses, who put huge knowledge and care into their production, cost the same as one on done deal for instance. A horse like the one I mention will have beautiful flat work and be very well produced. It will be free of issues and quirks and best of all the owner will stand over that horse if there's a problem when you get it home.

When I put together a selection of a dozen horses for a buyer, huge thought, time and travel has gone into that. I could be a week travelling the country making videos and putting that panel of horses together. All of them will fit the buyers specifications and be from excellent and trusted producers. 

I'm not a charity and naturally I have to be paid for my time and effort. Every week I get photos from clients of them out placing and winning on the horses I found for them. It's extremely rewarding for both me and for them. For instance yesterday a producer told me a recent client had been in touch to say she placed fourth in her first dressage competition with the horse she got last month.

We were absolutely thrilled as this girl had a traumatic fall in the past and it took great guts on her part to buy the type of nice eventer she wanted. The horse had oodles of talent but was young and she was scared. He is the quietest gelding in Ireland, which is why I knew he was perfect, but it took her three days at this producers yard to relax enough to believe he was genuinely that quiet. We spent all day there punctuated by having lovely lunches and she tried him every way she could think of.

Now he's turning heads and placing in his first ever dressage competition. That girl has her horse of a lifetime, she's over the moon and so are we. That scenario would not have been possible at the sales - it would be completely the wrong environment for a nervous rider like that to buy in.

So it's really a case of horses for courses. For many people looking for their horse of a lifetime it makes sense to go to the best producers and I can vouch for the fact that they are very happy with that choice.


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## Goldenstar (26 April 2017)

I am horse hunting ATM and if I draw blank around here ( I may have filled my stable by Sunday but don't want to jinx it by saying anything ) I am seriously considering going to Ireland and would use an agent for exactly the reasons IG lists .
It takes a layer of risk out of the hunt and that's worth spending some money on.
On the other hand someone who deals and produces knows that the odd wrong un is part of the buisiness and factor that in so trailing through Done Deals and going to sales worth it .
I think paying someone to do the leg work ,select the horses who has a relationship with the sellers and needs to get it right for the buyer because the only way you function as an agent is through recommendations from past cilents is a good way to reduce the risk of getting it wrong to a minimum and it will also save so much time as all the horses will have been selected in line the requirements you gave the agent then the only issue is are the requirements set the right ones if they are not a good agent will probably be able to change tack and get on the phone while you are there 
It sounds that will makes for a much easier fun experiance.


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## Alec Swan (27 April 2017)

Am I the only one to be saddened and surprised to see the name of Irish Gal in grey?  Was it this thread or another where she's transgressed,  does anyone know?

I've never attended a horse sale in Ireland,  but those who I know,  respect and who's opinions I would value,  tell me to NEVER try to go-it-alone!!

Alec.

ps.  I'm forever locking horns with IG,  and I only hope that this is a holiday for her,  and one where she may care to reflect upon being reported,  just as the person who did so may also give their actions further thought.


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## hihosilver (27 April 2017)

I noticed that Irish Gal has gone grey as well. I hope this is temporary as I think she has good knowledge about buying horses from Ireland and if I were going down this route I would be using her recommendations!


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## Leo Walker (27 April 2017)

Alec Swan said:



			Am I the only one to be saddened and surprised to see the name of Irish Gal in grey?  Was it this thread or another where she's transgressed,  does anyone know?
		
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I suspect shes been given a holiday for the blatant advertising she has done in this thread!


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## Alec Swan (27 April 2017)

Leo Walker said:



			I suspect shes been given a holiday for the blatant advertising she has done in this thread!
		
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Could you point me towards what you consider to be advertising?  I'll accept that there may be a case to answer of self-promotion,  but were that a banable offence,  then the Breeders section would close down!

There are plenty on this forum who make others aware of how they earn their daily bread.  I've received advice from those in the legal profession,  accounting,  setting up a website (thanks for the words of advice TFC,  it was a help),  breeders,  owners of studs and vets.  ALL of these people (with the exception of the TFC),  make it known their calling in life.  I was at one time a livestock fencing contractor and still have an interest.  Should anyone need help or guidance,  they only have to ask.

My understanding of advertising on HHO is that should it deprive the site owners of revenue then it will be viewed as such.  I have a 16hh horse which can jump the moon and he's in foal and only sixty quid, &#8230;&#8230; that's advertising.

Alec.

ps.  The above horse isn't actually in foal.


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## PorkChop (27 April 2017)

Alec Swan said:



			I have a 16hh horse which can jump the moon and he's in foal and only sixty quid, &#8230;&#8230; that's advertising.

Alec.
		
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Please may I buy him


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## Tiddlypom (27 April 2017)

Irish Gal has been promoting her horse finding business for a long while on HHO, I'm only surprised that it has taken this long for her to be button pushed.

She may well be very good at her job, but forum rules is rules, and she's been breaking them.

I hope, though, that she returns after her holiday as I enjoy her contributions, the blatant marketing aside.


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## cundlegreen (27 April 2017)

I think when you start describing a horse and give it's price, that might be seen as advertising?


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## tristar (27 April 2017)

most horses shown at goresbridge are in a forced outline, and most are young, when they take off over a jump they retain this form and resemble a stag in flight, far from natural, at the french show jumping sales for horses of the same age 3 - 4 years horses are encouraged to perform in a more novice shape that corresponds with their stage of development.

i once asked some people selling a horse at goresbridge, if the horse they were selling was reg  tb, the reply was  `well you could call it a tb` a reply which has fascinated me ever since and was an insight into the irish way of horse selling.


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## Goldenstar (27 April 2017)

I feel bad about IG i think I kind of caused that to happen .
I did not mean too.


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## Dusty M Yeti (28 April 2017)

Alec Swan said:



			Could you point me towards what you consider to be advertising?
		
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There were subsequent posts from IG on this thread that were removed when she was greyed out. I have to say I didn't think it was blatant advertising, just an offer to help should the need arise. Shame really, I often enjoyed the insight she had into buying from Ireland, I hope she comes back!


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## Cortez (28 April 2017)

I hope she comes back too, but I also hope she stops insisting that only certain, magical people are capable of supplying horses, and that you need to spend 10's of thousands to get anything decent. Categorically not true.


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## AnShanDan (28 April 2017)

Not really keen to comment too much, but if you think about it, the point of this thread is really a wanted advert (age, height, potential, how much done all specified), but that happens all the time and is allowed?? Not criticising the OP at all, but just noting the rules aren't applied very consistently 

Think the OP had already posted a very similar thread a couple of weeks ago too, so not sure what was to be gained from asking again.

Looking for horses is a minefield and you just have to go with what your gut tells you, if that is taking a chance at the sales, great. I have a good friend who does this, but she has literally a lifetime of experience and teaches full time, she also accepts that they don't all work out and they have to move on quickly in that case. She can sort out problems a lot more easily than most too. 

I wish there was an easy answer and I also think that nowadays we are all so used to buying on the internet and being able to choose exactly what we want and get it delivered the next day. Horse shopping's not like that!!


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## Alec Swan (28 April 2017)

Cortez said:



			&#8230;&#8230;.. I also hope she stops insisting that only certain, magical people are capable of supplying horses, and that you need to spend 10's of thousands to get anything decent. Categorically not true.
		
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To be certain I've just read back through as many of IG's posts as I could find,  and I find myself in disagreement with you and that there's no insistence that I can see,  that 'certain magical' people even exist!  What she has suggested,  and I'm in agreement with her,  is that horse research from the buying standpoint is vital,  that there are those in Ireland who are adept at dressing mutton up to look like lamb and that unless a buyer is highly experienced then finding a trustworthy agent would make for a sensible approach.  That to me sounds like simple common sense as I'm sure it does to you.

The rules certainly aren't applied in a even handed fashion,  and that must be obvious.  There are those who whilst perhaps not directly offering horses for sale,  will certainly refer to an animal which they've sold,  and at the price realised and also mention that they sell home bred youngsters.  They're promoting themselves and seem to do so with impunity.  I've no problem with that,  or wouldn't have if the same usage of Nelson's patch was applied to everyone.  Perhaps it's just a case that a decision is only made following a report.  The problem which I would have however,  is with those who report posts in an attempt to settle old scores.

Alec.


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## Goldenstar (28 April 2017)

Well for what it's worth I think it was direct offer to help me that prompted someone to report IG and I hope the person involved is pleased with themselves - very petty and nasty .


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## Leo Walker (28 April 2017)

AnShanDan said:



			Not really keen to comment too much, but if you think about it, the point of this thread is really a wanted advert (age, height, potential, how much done all specified), but that happens all the time and is allowed?? Not criticising the OP at all, but just noting the rules aren't applied very consistently 

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It depends if anyone button pushes or not as its a self moderating forum. You never know who is reading what you post on here, or how they are interpreting it. I've been reported a couple of times for advertising for doing way less than IG and I know others have been as well, yet I see much more blatant advertising and nothing happens. Luck of the draw I suppose.


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## gunnergundog (28 April 2017)

Goldenstar said:



			Well for what it's worth I think it was direct offer to help me that prompted someone to report IG.... .
		
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If you want her contact details and don't already have them I can pass them on to you - as I am sure can many others.


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## DabDab (28 April 2017)

I have to say, I agree that I'm surprised it's taken so long. I've often cringed in the past at threads dragged almost completely off topic by IG promoting her services.
And like Cortez I also get rather irritated that she persistently insists that decent, sound, amateurs horses are only found with huge price tags.


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## spacefaer (28 April 2017)

DabDab said:



			I have to say, I agree that I'm surprised it's taken so long. I've often cringed in the past at threads dragged almost completely off topic by IG promoting her services.
And like Cortez I also get rather irritated that she persistently insists that decent, sound, amateurs horses are only found with huge price tags.
		
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I've always been wary of agents, and this is in fact not directed at IG, but a general observation, that I've always understood that agents benefit from getting the highest price from vendors, either on a commission basis, (eg 10% of sale price) or by adding their "cut" on top of the sale price.  I have experienced both methods, both as a vendor and as a potential purchaser, and I also have friends who act as agents.  I can appreciate that agents can take the hard graft out of searching, and reduce travel time/costs by presenting the purchaser with (theoretically) suitable horses, but I would hesitate to use one, on the basis that there is bound to be a degree of bias - even if only on a "promise to return" basis. (by which I mean, that the agent will keep bringing clients to that particular vendor)


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## onemoretime (28 April 2017)

Irish gal said:



			We've spoken previously Spinner and I'm not saying this for any reason apart from forewarning you. If you're going to the sales here then you need a highly experienced horse person, preferably Irish with you.

There are wonderful horses to be bought there but there are also rushed horses, who will look good for the day under professional riders but can become unmanageable when they're brought home. Many people are simply not prepared to put the time and work into amateur horses, unfortunately, as they don't feel there's a big enough return on them.

I even know of one producer who was so infamous that UK professionals used to say his 'horses lost the ability to jump crossing the Irish sea'. What I'm saying is that it's actually more important to know who not to buy from at the sales than anything else.

So you'll need someone from the Irish horse industry with you or a British dealer who knows the score. Then you'll be properly equipped for the sales!

I sold a fab horse last summer to a lovely Scottish couple. They had previously picked up a bargain at Goresbridge. He wasn't such a bargain when he started rearing out hacking which seemed to be an unpleasant but ingrained habit.
		
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  Completely agree with this.  You need to be very careful all that glitters is not gold!!


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## onemoretime (28 April 2017)

Alec Swan said:



			To be certain I've just read back through as many of IG's posts as I could find,  and I find myself in disagreement with you and that there's no insistence that I can see,  that 'certain magical' people even exist!  What she has suggested,  and I'm in agreement with her,  is that horse research from the buying standpoint is vital,  that there are those in Ireland who are adept at dressing mutton up to look like lamb and that unless a buyer is highly experienced then finding a trustworthy agent would make for a sensible approach.  That to me sounds like simple common sense as I'm sure it does to you.

The rules certainly aren't applied in a even handed fashion,  and that must be obvious.  There are those who whilst perhaps not directly offering horses for sale,  will certainly refer to an animal which they've sold,  and at the price realised and also mention that they sell home bred youngsters.  They're promoting themselves and seem to do so with impunity.  I've no problem with that,  or wouldn't have if the same usage of Nelson's patch was applied to everyone.  Perhaps it's just a case that a decision is only made following a report.  The problem which I would have however,  is with those who report posts in an attempt to settle old scores.

Alec.
		
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  Well said Alec!


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