# Timescale to bomproof a green horse ready for total novice child



## Angeliki9 (17 September 2016)

I'm just looking for some advice. I've agreed to ride/bring on a green horse for my best friend (who's a total novice, only ridden once), ready for her 8year old novice daughter to ride. The pony is a 14.1hh, 7 year old gypsy cob mare called Patch, who was broken (we think by gypsies - ie not turned away for professional breaking) as a 2 year old. She then bred 3 foals and hasn't been touched since - was bought from a dealer last month.

 I've only ridden her a handful of times but already she's showing that she'll need a lot of work - her transitions are awful, she stops and starts in walk with the lightest pressure when she wants to, but is very unbalanced in trot and needs lots of encouragement to get into it, she's very unsure of herself and would rather plant her feet and take in her surroundings. We haven't even tried canter yet. She doesn't seem used to the bit (unsurprisingly) and mouths and fidgets constantly. 

Left to my own devices, I'd take months with the mare - build up her strength, balance and confidence out hacking, work up to a couple of straight, up-slope 'natural' canters before even thinking about working too hard in the school. But there is absolutely no hacking anywhere near her yard (very busy, built up, fast roads on all sides - not fun), and we don't have a trailer. So I'm limited to the school. Because her daughter will only be able to ride in the school, I think my friends been a bit naive in her expectations of how long this will take. She wants the horse ready (flawless w/t/c, possible jumping, and totally child-friendly-bombproof) in about 6 weeks max... 

I would have doubts over this time with any horse - I prefer to work slowly and gently anyway - but especially with Patch and especially as i have my own horse too, at a yard the opposite side of the city, so can only ride Patch for her 2-3 times a week max. Patch's temperament isn't bad, shes very sweet and tries to please, but she still thinks like a baby - she isn't very trusting of people (not terrified, just in that she would trample over you to get out of 'danger' aka a leaf, rather than trusting when her human says it's ok). She isn't malicious at all when ridden, but I've been told (haven't yet seen) that she's awful when worked from the ground - charges with ears pinned, rears, bucks and kicks. I've lunged her a couple of times, and she was perfect on left rein but unsure on the right (kept turning in to look at me with left eye). Nothing nasty at all, she was just very nervous and unsure, certainly no charging. So I'm thinking it could be a 'ground trainer' problem, rather than a 'horse problem'

In a nutshell, I don't want to give up on the horse, but am wondering if I should get out now, before it all becomes a problem and I lose my best friend over 'why isn't my horse ready yet, it's been 2 months?' Or 'Patch bucked my little girl off and its your fault for not training her properly in 6 weeks'. I didn't agree to ride Patch for her until after she bought her (it was a spontaneous buy...whole other story....&#128528;.....), and didn't go with her to view or I would've advised her against it. What's your opinion? Is 6 weeks doable (or fair) from what you've heard of this mare? 

Just a note - we have lots of other horsey friends, plus everyone on her yard is friendly and helpful, so I don't feel I'm just abandoning Patch to a couple of novices. If I did step down, I'd recommend she found someone more comfortable with that timescale, and let her know I'm still on hand if she needs me occasionally. 

Thanks in advance everyone!

Angel xox


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## Charlie007 (17 September 2016)

As my old boss would say ' it takes as long as it takes!'.  In 6 weeks I would expect to walk and trot, canter would depend on strength and balance. If your friend won't allow you to work at the horses pace then I'm afraid I would not take it on.


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## Beausmate (17 September 2016)

6 weeks?  Nope, no way.

Green+green=........


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## be positive (17 September 2016)

There are 2 issues here, 1 the educating of a green pony, how long is a piece of string is the short answer, 2 the fact that the novice child is going to be riding this pony when the child is a) very young, b) likely to be rather small on a 14.1 cob, c) has got be be taught everything from scratch with the pony being as green as the would be rider.

The whole scenario is a recipe for disaster even if the pony turns out well it will still need regular schooling by a competent rider/ trainer as well as a good instructor being involved with teaching the child, if you really want to help suggest they invest some money in buying a made first pony or even better riding lessons at a RS until the child at least has the basics, probably not that helpful a suggestion but the idea your friend has of it all working out seems highly unlikely if she is relying on the goodwill of friends rather than paying for professional help. 

I train horses/ ponies and riders so know how hard it can be even with one half of the pairing being experienced to have both being beginners will be more than twice as hard, will have more steps back than forward and could end very badly or painfully especially for the child.


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## meesha (17 September 2016)

If you really do mean bombproof you are looking at getting miles and miles under its belt and that is after getting basic commands sorted and making sure being yanked in mouth/kicked etc (not saying child bad rider but these things happen) isn't going to cause a meltdown.  I would think years to call it bombproof!!


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## FfionWinnie (17 September 2016)

Pony is too big, strong and ignorant for a child of that age and experience in my opinion. My very tall and experienced very brave 7yr old daughter is able to ride youngsters but they are a max of 12hh and brought on carefully by me on long reins and in very controlled situations. She is able to ride a well schooled 13.2 out hacking but she is not able to use her legs correctly to ride her properly and the pony takes advantage in a school / jumping situation and she is not strong enough despite the pony being well schooled. She has several thousand hours of riding various types of ponies in all situations.


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## MissTyc (17 September 2016)

Aside from all the other issues already mentioned, it so much depends on the personality of the horse. 
I have one gypsy-bred cob on my yard who was born bomb proof for a small child. He is now 9 years old, he has never been professionally broken or schooled. They bought him as a yearling from the gypsies and I raised my eyebrows expecting it all to go wrong. And he's just been great! They sat on him at 3.5, starting riding him the next summer. He hacks alone, in company, goes fowards, turns, stops, hops over a jump. 

I have another, now 11, from the gypsies who might be suitable when he's in his 20s or 30s lol. He is not sharp or spooky but he needs a lot of exercise or he doesn't know what to with this energy. He goes BE90, hunts, etc. Had several "novice homes that couldn't cope" before he landed with me and I immediately realised he needed a bit more to life than novice humans!


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## teapot (17 September 2016)

We have a school of thought at RDA that it can take up to three years for a horse to truly settle into the job, ie be bombproof/safe as houses/anyone's ride...


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## WandaMare (17 September 2016)

I agree with you that they are being naive. They need to understand that the pony is a live animal not a machine, so you can't really put deadlines on for a start. If they said to me they wanted the horse to be flawless, bombproof, perfect in 6 weeks I would say they have taken on the wrong hobby, they need a nice mountain bike or a scooter


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## Michen (17 September 2016)

If you have the experience to re break and bring on a horse then surely you know what the answer is here!


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## Cortez (17 September 2016)

6 weeks is not sufficient to train a horse to reliably and permanently do ANYTHING.


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## FfionWinnie (17 September 2016)

Cortez said:



			6 weeks is not sufficient to train a horse to reliably and permanently do ANYTHING.
		
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Lol well I don't know, plenty of people could probably easily train it to reliably nap, buck and have various other bad habits and ruin it for life in that time!


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## Goldenstar (17 September 2016)

Cortez said:



			6 weeks is not sufficient to train a horse to reliably and permanently do ANYTHING.
		
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Exactly this .
It's simply impossible to get a pony safe for a novice child in that sort of timescale .


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## Cheiro1 (17 September 2016)

Angeliki9 said:



			Because her daughter will only be able to ride in the school
		
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I think you already know it's impossible to achieve what they are expecting of you, I wouldn't even bother starting to work with the horse, sorry.

I also feel incredibly sorry for the poor horse being condemned to a life of nothing but riding round an arena :/


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## Mike007 (17 September 2016)

Somewhere between a year and never.


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## Teaselmeg (17 September 2016)

if your friend wants something that is bombproof in 6 weeks, she needs to dig deep and buy a pony that already fits the bill. I would have a frank talk with her now about her expectations and say you need more like 6 months to work on this pony.


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## Angeliki9 (17 September 2016)

Hi everyone, thank you all for getting back to me and echoing my feelings about the whole situation. As a couple of you have pointed out, you're right, I did already know the answer - and what my decision would be - but I guess I wanted the reassurance that it's not just me who feels this way! Also she can be a little dramatic to say the least so wanted some support behind me when I tell her why it just won't work. Like I mentioned, I prefer to work slowly, I've always had the luxury of time in the past, it's how I've always broken & trained horses, and I'm proud of how each and every one has turned out, and of where they are now in their careers. However, I also know that lots of people are quicker about these things (especially if schooling or dressage is a passion), so I also wondered whether maybe I'm just behind the times.. 

Sadly I feel she has tried to 'save money' by buying a green horse (Patch is a hundred times better than the un-halter-broken, never-touched, herded in off a field 2 year old she bought) and relying on the goodwill of friends (none of whom want to see the horse being wasted or ruined) to train it up for her. 

Anyway, this post is about the horse, not a personal dig - despite the fact that she drives me to despair with her decisions made in over-eagerness to join the horsey club, we've been friends for years and I'm keen for it to stay that way. Although a very firm talking to by those of us already in 'the horsey club' will hopefully get her to see sense!

Thank you all once again

Angel xox


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## LinzyD (18 September 2016)

It's a tough one for you, but the bottom line is that the horse is totally unsuitable for the intended rider.  Even IF it were an experienced schoolmaster it would still be far too big, in height and bulk, for a novice child of this age.  The most that could be expected would be for the child to be led about by an adult.  To give you a comparison, my niece, aged 9, tall for her age, and very, very bright and able to assimilate a lot of instruction, has just started to move up to a 13.2h pony from her 11h pony, missing out a 12.2h pony because she is growing so quickly.  The 13.2h pony is 8 and has been with me since a foal; he's had a really solid education for all those years and is as close to bombproof as a pony can be without being a slouch, and even with all that, with the pony going like clockwork, really well schooled, with me able to command the pony by voice from the ground, with a decent little rider who has already had her own pony for a few years and who goes to shows, jumping, etc, it still feels like a massive step up and a LOT to ask of both pony and rider because the child just doesn't yet have the weight, strength of seat, core strength, and leg length and strength to really 'ride' him, and so she is also still riding the 11h pony too.

14.1h green, cobby type with 8 year-old beginner child???  The best your friend can expect is for the pony to slouch in trot from the far end of the school back to the gate, while the child has no influence over it whatsoever and hoists herself up by the reins to do rising trot, with the pony's head fixed up against the bit.  You can see it in any low-end riding school, tiny children on cobs that are far too big for them, trotting to the back of the ride, hoisting themselves up against a leaden mouth.  That is what your friend can hope for, at best.  If you really value her as a friend, be honest, tell her.  It's not a question of how long it will take, but that the pony is just not suitable, full stop.  There are no cheap shortcuts where horses are concerned, and if she values her daughter's happiness, safety and education, then she needs to be prepared to take the advice of those with experience.  If she did want to keep this particular pony, her best option would be to get her daughter a more suitable pony, some lessons, and a pony club membership for the next few years and have the cob also undergo a few years of education.  Then aged 12 or so, with a few years of education on the pony, the daughter and pony might work out.  No cheap options.


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## Vodkagirly (18 September 2016)

Sounds like being set up to fail. Horses don't often stick to prearranged timescales for training and the more novice the owner,  the less they are likely to understand the work involved.


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## NZJenny (19 September 2016)

A couple of years - with an experienced rider, if the horse is that way inclined.  Some horses will never be child proof.


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## eggs (19 September 2016)

Some-one saw your friend coming and is now laughing all the way to the bank.

I don't really know what to suggest as it is clear that this is a totally inappropriate purchase and there is no way you will be able to turn this into the pony she wants in any reasonable timescale.  Apart from the pony being far too big for a young child a novice pony and a novice child coupled with a novice parent sounds like a recipe for disaster.


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## Pearlsasinger (19 September 2016)

I think your friend needs to hear some very plain speaking!
This is just about the most unsuitable mount for her child, does she want the poor girl to be maimed, or worse?
I bought an unbroken 2 yr old cob, who could indeed be called bombproof, that is her nature. Other horses are more reactive, even with years of training. As for being able to cope with an inexperienced child rider, that isn't bombproof, that is a saint, and those are usually older horses, although again, some horses are born that way. I know a mini Shetland who has taught loads of children to tide, since he was 5.
Your friend really needs to buy another pony for her daughter and take an experienced friend with her when she does so.


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## Apercrumbie (11 October 2016)

Is there any update OP? She sounds like a sweet little mare but completely unsuitable for the task she is being given. I do hope your friend has realised what she is asking.


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## pheonix (12 October 2016)

Cortez said:



			6 weeks is not sufficient to train a horse to reliably and permanently do ANYTHING.
		
Click to expand...


This. It isn't fair to expect the mare to fit to a timetable and I doubt it will work out well for the child either.


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## lrw0250 (12 October 2016)

This sounds so similar to a family I know who are now in the situation of having acquired 3 ponies in the space of as many months due to them being clueless but loaded!


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## MiJodsR2BlinkinTite (12 October 2016)

Horses haven't read the book that says this and that ought to be done by such-and-such a time!

TBH this family need to acquire a rocking horse rather than a real one!

They are being ridiculously naive and unrealistic with their expectations of both the horse and the OP.

If I was OP I'd frankly walk away from this crazy situation and let them send the horse to a professional to do the work - and pay up and look sweet for them to do it. But even then, there's no guarantee that this pony will be 101% what they want.

FFS! People like this make me very VERY cross indeed!


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## stencilface (12 October 2016)

6 weeks is doable if horse takes to it no issues. Maybe w/t/c by that point. Bombproof in an arena, there's no telling. It really isn't fair in the horse, you or the daughter. 

I'm taking well over a year to hopefully prep my 4yo pony for my toddler. And then I'm only expecting lead rein stuff from him, it will be another year or two at least before anything else!


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