# Horse's pelvis 'out'



## goodtimes (11 April 2012)

My horse has been disunited on the lunge and not 'forward' in the school.
Got back lady out who said his pelvis was 'out'
She has re aligned it and is coming back next week to check him.

How long till I see a difference in him - I'm guessing he will be anticipating pain at first.

Thanks


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## Cinnamontoast (11 April 2012)

You're best off contacting the back lady again and asking her. Did she give you a time frame and a fitness plan? Was it Lorna Skinner? She gave me exercises to do, for me and the horse and a three week plan of what to do with ourselves.


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## Hedwards (11 April 2012)

I'm always a little suspicious of people saying they've 'realigned' a horses pelvis... I'm not entirely sure its humanly possible - if they are suggesting there is an issue with the muscles/ligaments surrounding the pelive somewhere that they have 'manipulated' or 'massaged' i would believe it, but to realign a horses pelvis would need some kind of super human strength IMO.

Agree with CT - speak to the lady who came out and ask her what she thinks...


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## ellie_e (11 April 2012)

Did you have a Chiropractor out?? Lots of chiros say the horses pelvis is 'out' when to actually re align a pelvis would take a lot of force and very difficult, they say the pelvis is out and normally mean dodgy muscle or not quite right seems to be a saying for most things, I was having a chiro once a month to my horse whos pelvis was out every single time or say she said, I now always use a physio instead!


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## ellie_e (11 April 2012)

Hedwards said:



			I'm always a little suspicious of people saying they've 'realigned' a horses pelvis... I'm not entirely sure its humanly possible - if they are suggesting there is an issue with the muscles/ligaments surrounding the pelive somewhere that they have 'manipulated' or 'massaged' i would believe it, but to realign a horses pelvis would need some kind of super human strength IMO.

Agree with CT - speak to the lady who came out and ask her what she thinks...
		
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Ahh yes completely agree!!


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## xxMozlarxx (11 April 2012)

ellie_e said:



			Ahh yes completely agree!!
		
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Me too..seems to be the line all chiros take, it's a bit of voodoo, spoke to the Osteo about it and he laughed, no the pelvis can't be put back in, if it was 'out' it would be a job for a vet and very very serious


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## Doncella (11 April 2012)

My boy had a 'twist' throughout his whole body and it was a muscular problem probably caused by coming down and rolling at speed messing about in the field. He is in the last part of his 3 months of remedial work consisting of 6 weeks lunging in the EquiAmi or the Harbridge and now ridden in walk and a tiny bit of trot in the Harbridge.  I don't know what my backwoman does, she doesn't hoik legs or bash backs just puts her hands on and the horse is better.  However she does expect you the owner to do you bit in the rehab process.


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## hairycob (11 April 2012)

Most likely your horse has uneven muscle development on either side. A nice massage can make him feel a bit better short term, but unless you address the underlying cause you will end up spending a fortune on repeat visits by your back person & in the worst circumstances ruin your horse. I know someone whose horse was put down because the back person kept giving her "the pelvis is out" line & all the time it was a tendon issue. By the time she finally called out the Vet the problem was too far gone. All because she was didn't want to get the Vet out for what she thought was an easy thing to sort!
The real problem could be a huge variety of things from the easily fixable things like you ride more on one rein/the saddle fit needs adjusting/dental issues to the more serious such as compensating for pain elsewhere. Get a trainer to assess your riding, have your saddler & dentist check your horse & if these easy fixes don't work get the Vet out. There are some really good physio/chiro types whose work can be vital in rehabbing a horse, but there are a lot of complete charlatans whose biggest skill is extracting cash from worried owners.


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## Cinnamontoast (11 April 2012)

Agree with the charlatan thing. A friend, who is a qualified sports equine massage physio, also had her horse looked at and was given exercises for the horse. You couldn't possibly realign a horse's pelvis from sheer manipulation!


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## goodtimes (11 April 2012)

Oh god - I'm really worried now!

She is an equine chiropracter/physio - thats what she advertises herself as - she came recomended by my trainer.

She said to hack out today, canter in a staight line, then work him as normal from then.

Im a bit suspicious now


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## ellie_e (11 April 2012)

A physio will need confirmation from your vet before seeing the animal, will then want to see horse trotted up and do a full medical type assessment before even touching the animal.  A chiropractor and physio are very different, I would be concerned that shes calling herself both


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## Inchy (11 April 2012)

Doesn't sound like she's a physio - find out if she's registered with ACPAT - if not, she's not a physio!


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## Wagtail (11 April 2012)

It is indeed impossible for a human to physically realign equine bones. However, there are techniques, for exmple, McTimoney, that uses a kind of fast flicking movement designed to cause contraction in the muscles which then pull the bone back in the right direction. It takes a lot of skill to do effectively, but it can be done by a good practician.


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## xxMozlarxx (11 April 2012)

Wagtail said:



			It is indeed impossible for a human to physically realign equine bones. However, there are techniques, for exmple, McTimmoney, that uses a kind of fast flicking movement designed to cause contraction in the muscles which then pull the bone back in the right direction. It takes a lot of skill to do effectively, but it can be done by a good practician.
		
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Yes..they certainly claim that the flicking does something, I don't think my husband,( who had same chiro as the horse) would agree!! Osteo guffaws at that as well! 
OP, don't be worried, she is unlikely to have done any harm, my personal preference would be for a qualified physio or Osteo to work with my horse.


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## goodtimes (11 April 2012)

Wagtail said:



			It is indeed impossible for a human to physically realign equine bones. However, there are techniques, for exmple, McTimoney, that uses a kind of fast flicking movement designed to cause contraction in the muscles which then pull the bone back in the right direction. It takes a lot of skill to do effectively, but it can be done by a good practician.
		
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That's what she did! 
Hope I've not been had. I hate that.
Will see how he is over the next couple of days.


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## Jorel (11 April 2012)

I'm a chiropractor student. It's most definitley possible to adjust the pelvis back to where it should be in horses. When the pelvis is "out" what is meant is that it has generally rotated out of the alignment it should be in, this usually happens in horses that have either had an injury to the area - such as a twist and fall - or in mares that have had foals. The pelvis doesnt realign itself after this and so the muscles around it start to work in a way that compensates for the new position which is not usually beneficial to the muscles. A decent chiropractor will be able to adjust the pelvis but WILL also give you exercises for the horse, as you then have to train the muscles back up to stabilise it into the correct position again. 

The other problem with horses and chiro/physio/osteo. Is the registration of them. A chiropractor that has done a masters to work with animals must register under a specific name (off the top of my head i cant remember it) they are not "supposed" to advertise themselves as "Equine Chiropractor" as this name isn't protected under the Chiropractic Council. This means that any random person from the street can call themselves an Equine Chiropractor. I believe the same is true for Physiotherapists and Osteopaths. 

This is sadly where so many bad stories come from - the random people who are unqualified. To qualify to work with any animals a person has to first be a qualified human chiropractor (minimum of 5 years training then a year in clinic) then they have to do another masters. If they claim otherwise then theyre bogus 

I'm not saying the woman isnt good at what she does. But it seems silly for her to keep coming to adjust a pelvis if shes not going to give you exercises. Maybe ask her where she trained (theres only 3 estabilishments for chiropractic in the UK)? And please dont discount everyone  theres some brilliant people out there.

extra: I'm suprised that an osteopath laughed about pelvic realignment, since they use many of the same techiques as a chiropractor. ah well 

(excuse the spelling and grammar >.< )


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## Brightbay (11 April 2012)

A physio will need confirmation from your vet before seeing the animal, will then want to see horse trotted up and do a full medical type assessment before even touching the animal. A chiropractor and physio are very different, I would be concerned that shes calling herself both
		
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No particular reason to be concerned.  The lady who comes out to my horse is both a McTimoney Chiropractor and a Veterinary Physiotherapist, and works under vet referral.   A physio and a chiropractor focus on quite different things, it's very useful indeed to have someone versatile enough to do both.


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## paulineh (11 April 2012)

The pelvis it self sits deep down. It will have been the muscles /ligament that will have been adjusted.

My chiropractor tells me to give the horse 3 days off in the field so that they can adjust to the body feeling different.

You need to know what qualifications the "back " person has.

My own chiropractor is a vet .


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## Jorel (11 April 2012)

If shes Mctimoney then they work slightly differently to a conventional chiro. But still should give you exercises. Maybe try a different chiro  Personally don't like Mc Timoney methods but then thats just me.


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## FreddieFace (11 April 2012)

Im having the same issue with my horse.  I recently bought my new horse,  we had a 'back lady' visit the yard so thought i would get her to check him over.  She said his lower spine had been twisted and had started to fuse, probably due to a fall at some point which hadnt been treated.  She told me to ease off on riding him and lunge him with a Passoa and she would see him again in 4 weeks time.

I contacted his previous owner and asked if he had ever fallen with her and whether she knew about this twist in his spine - I would like to point out I had a 5 stage vetting done on him before I bought him.  The previous owner was adiment he had never fallen and she had had his back checked every 6-8 weeks as he was quite weak in his back as a youngster as he matured into himself and her back lady had never disgnosed any such thing.  I also contacted an eventing lady who had my horse on sale livery with her and she too confirmed that no twist had ever been found.

I have had him about a month and have only ridden him 3 times, we have decided to get a second opinion from our vets in conjunction with a ACPAT Chartered Equine Physiotherapist, hopefully this will give me a definite answer with regard to his back.

I have tried to find out the 'back lady's' qualifications and so far have been unable to find her on any register


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## Marydoll (11 April 2012)

Hedwards said:



			I'm always a little suspicious of people saying they've 'realigned' a horses pelvis... I'm not entirely sure its humanly possible - if they are suggesting there is an issue with the muscles/ligaments surrounding the pelive somewhere that they have 'manipulated' or 'massaged' i would believe it, but to realign a horses pelvis would need some kind of super human strength IMO.

Agree with CT - speak to the lady who came out and ask her what she thinks...
		
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Agree with this, my vet says its impossible, she'd never have the strength to do it


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## xxMozlarxx (11 April 2012)

The chiro I had ( never again) did do a big manipulation technique on my poor boys hind and said she had put it back in! It looked impressive but given his problem was actually KS and leg problems she probably caused him more discomfort.


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## JFTDWS (11 April 2012)

I do wonder where all these chiropractors etc think that the horse's pelvis has gone "out" to   down the shops?  the cinema?

flippant yes, but it strikes me that they're talking nonsense and I wouldn't allow one who spouted things like that near my horses.


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## be positive (11 April 2012)

JFTD said:



			I do wonder where all these chiropractors etc think that the horse's pelvis has gone "out" to   down the shops?  the cinema?

flippant yes, but it strikes me that they're talking nonsense and I wouldn't allow one who spouted things like that near my horses.
		
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 I like the idea they are shopping it  would make life easier, as long as they go easy on the credit card.

My physio uses phases that make sense, "the horse is sore behind the saddle" or "a bit tight in the hamstrings"  she has no need to try and impress with pointless statements that cannot be true, the proof of the pudding, as they say is in the results achieved.


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## xxMozlarxx (11 April 2012)

JFTD said:



			I do wonder where all these chiropractors etc think that the horse's pelvis has gone "out" to   down the shops?  the cinema?

flippant yes, but it strikes me that they're talking nonsense and I wouldn't allow one who spouted things like that near my horses.
		
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Well we live and learn and it makes for a good story...


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## Ibblebibble (11 April 2012)

JFTD said:



			I do wonder where all these chiropractors etc think that the horse's pelvis has gone "out" to   down the shops?  the cinema?

flippant yes, but it strikes me that they're talking nonsense and I wouldn't allow one who spouted things like that near my horses.
		
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**snort** my pelvis went to asda on it's own earlier
I'm afraid i'm another one who doesn't trust most of these practitioners, knowing how difficult/painful it was to have a dislocated shoulder put back in (that had gone to the cinema by itself) i can't quite believe that any single person could manipulate a horses pelvis without the aid of a tractor and winch
we have a 'manipulator' locally who apparently was a farrier, went to the usa and came back an equine manipulator, some people love him and swear he has cured all their problems, others say complete charlaton and wouldn't let him touch a dead fly!! my only experience of him  was a horse that got dumped on me  who's pelvis he had supposedly put back in. i had previously seen horse ridden happily but after that 'treatment' no one could touch his back let alone ride him


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## Joeyjojo (11 April 2012)

I am also concerned about a chiro saying the pelvis is out, of it was the horse would have a serious problem! 

It can however be misaligned - i.e not in its optimal position for best performance. A reputable chiropractor would then be able to perform an adjustment, which as others said is usually a high velocity movement which stimulates the muscles in the body to realign the pelvis.


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## JFTDWS (11 April 2012)

xxMozlarxx said:



			Well we live and learn and it makes for a good story...

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Indeed, we've all done things we regret - I once let someone do equine touch on one of mine


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## xxMozlarxx (11 April 2012)

Joeyjojo said:



			I am also concerned about a chiro saying the pelvis is out, of it was the horse would have a serious problem! 

It can however be misaligned - i.e not in its optimal position for best performance. A reputable chiropractor would then be able to perform an adjustment, which as others said is usually a high velocity movement which stimulates the muscles in the body to realign the pelvis.
		
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She told my OH his ribs were out....hahaha..just remember his face when he got home...voodoo I tell 'e, voodoo!


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## kerilli (11 April 2012)

Joeyjojo said:



			I am also concerned about a chiro saying the pelvis is out, of it was the horse would have a serious problem! 

It can however be misaligned - i.e not in its optimal position for best performance. A reputable chiropractor would then be able to perform an adjustment, which as others said is usually a high velocity movement which stimulates the muscles in the body to realign the pelvis.
		
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this, exactly.

i'm a huge fan of McTimoney Chiropracty, for me and the horses. I can feel the difference in myself (it turns off my sciatica and back pain, for starters) and see it in the horses. I used to use osteopaths but found they were far stronger in their movements which I disliked. 
OP, I really wouldn't worry, i doubt you've been 'had', work the horse gently in straight lines for a few days and then see how she feels.

edited to add: the difference it made to 1 of my mares was that, when she had put her pelvis 'out' (for want of a better phrase) she would/could not canter on the right lead, and when it was corrected, she happily struck off correctly on both leads, every time. this showed up at liberty, on the lunge, and under saddle. it was a definite physical imbalance problem which was rectified by McTimoney Chiropracty.


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## xxMozlarxx (11 April 2012)

JFTD said:



			Indeed, we've all done things we regret - I once let someone do equine touch on one of mine  

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Oh now equine touch....that definitely works!


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## PandorasJar (11 April 2012)

Hmm,

I think it's possibly just mis-interpretation. From human experience my pelvis is 'out' which in reality means it's twisted to the left... it was a fair old amount. Sorted to a large degree by a physio... it wasn't painful, nor any strong manipulation. Simple correcting of how I was standing for a few minutes and pressing certain muscles around to relax. No popping or huge movements. 

Pelvis is far straighter and has done wonders. And trust me I'm a cynic on most things! Also had back problems for years, chiro's etc useless... went to see this physio and she mucked around with my chest, despite my protests that it was my back that hurt.... couldn't have made a bigger difference. It was front muscles locking my back up yet making no impact pain wise around my collar bone area.

In consideration of FF saying about fusing points... A section near the top of my spine has started fusing because of it overflexing around the area either side of where is fusing. Nothing to do with bad falls etc, just that having hypermobile joints means that the area around it is flexing too much. 

All of mine is from human consideration though, so possibly not much help.

My initial thought though is that she is just putting it in laymans terms for you? 

Pan


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## Gusbear (11 April 2012)

My boy has (had) a similar problem.  No end of trouble trying to lunge him on right rein and general reluctance to relax and settle.  I just thought he was being naughty.  Turns out he was dropping his pelvis and reluctant to go on that rein as he was having trouble balancing himself being a big boy.  Just had physio out second time in two weeks recently and my goodness, it's like I have a different horse.  
He is so much quieter, happier and most importantly free in his movements and happy to lunge till the cows come home and no more silly behaviour when schooling.  He even put his head down and stretched and relaxed on the lunge after his treatment and seemed quite happy in himself.  She has given me exercises to do with him to help stretch and flex his stiff side. 
She  used a pulse machine (I use one at home for my back and I swear by it).  He loved it and went to sleep and nudged the physio when she took it off as if to say "more of that please".
After his treatments he is now more than happy to be groomed whereas before I got the ears back, scrunched up nostril (his attempt at trying to look mean but looks rather comical) and leg up warning from him.  Was all because he was uncomfortable.
My physio was recommended to me by my vet.  She was a human physio then retrained across to horses.  
I swear she is amazing and knows her stuff (I've come across plenty of so called practitioners in my time that do more harm than good), but she has done a wonderful job in helping my boy.
If in doubt then I'd speak to your vet and see if they can recommend anyone that is suitably qualified.


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## PandorasJar (11 April 2012)

Gusbear said:



			My physio was recommended to me by my vet.  She was a human physio then retrained across to horses.
		
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All horse physios should be trained on humans first. When I looked into this as a career path it was the fact we had to study human physio for a number of years first which put me off.

Pan


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## goodtimes (11 April 2012)

Woops - didn't mean to open a can of worms.
Anyway, what ever she did to him - he is a much happier boy today.

Hope its lasts


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## miss_wilson (11 April 2012)

ellie_e said:



			Ahh yes completely agree!!
		
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If the pelvis was out there would be a serious vet problem!!!


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## stevieg (11 April 2012)

Hedwards said:



			I'm always a little suspicious of people saying they've 'realigned' a horses pelvis... I'm not entirely sure its humanly possible - if they are suggesting there is an issue with the muscles/ligaments surrounding the pelive somewhere that they have 'manipulated' or 'massaged' i would believe it, but to realign a horses pelvis would need some kind of super human strength IMO.

Agree with CT - speak to the lady who came out and ask her what she thinks...
		
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Definately agree.


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## Goldenstar (11 April 2012)

I aggree with the previous posts it's physically impossible for a human to realign a horses pelvis the force needed would be enormous 
You need to question people when they say things like that understand what they mean by that sort of figure of speech it does IMO bring the profession of back people into disrepute they need to learn to express them selves clearly and stand up to interrogation errr I mean interested questioning if I am going to use them..


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## Spotsrock (11 April 2012)

My back lady adjusts pelvis. 2 days off then gentle work 2 days then 2 days normal work no jumping and results are usually instant when ridden ime


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