# Kissing Spine Surgery - Getting Worried!



## islandspirit (4 March 2011)

My boy is due to have kissing spine surgery on Tuesday of next week. He has 11 dorsal processes that touch with no gap at all and I have been advised that surgery is the only option or PTS. My initial reaction was go ahead with the surgery as I have to give him the chance but a few people I have spoken to say it would be kinder to put him to sleep and now I really don't know what to do. Any experiences and advice would be gladly accepted.


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## ashlingm (4 March 2011)

Personally if it was me and my horse I'd like to offer him every chance to be painfree and happy before Id consider putting him to sleep. 11 is quite a large amount to get done but if the vet thinks its possible and the benefits outweigh the risk of surgery (and he must if they plan on doing it!) then why not go ahead with it? On the other hand if you do get him PTS would you not have that small doubt in your mind that could could have done more, and that the surgery could have been a success.
I think if the vet thinks its ok then go ahead with the surgery and give it a shot. Its better to have tried then not tried at all


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## classicalfan (4 March 2011)

Please think seriously before putting your boy through this sort of surgery.  It is a long recovery period and in our experinece the results are never truly satisfactory.  11 vertebrae is an awful lot.

Some horses respond well to physio and a change of riding style.  Others can enjoy a pain free retirement without the need for surgery.

I have given you my contact details in your mail box.


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## barneyhunter (4 March 2011)

I had my young horse PTS a couple of years ago due to kissing spine.  He was amazingly bred with brothers and sisters popping round Badminton and was meant to be my horse of a lifetime. Such an easy horse that you could ride bareback in a headcollar at 4. 

By the time he was diagnosed he had also damaged both his hind leg ligaments (which the insurance co informed us were because of his KS so they wouldn't cover as we were over our £5k - to be fair we would have found it difficult to find an expert who would have said it was unrelated!)  So we were left with a horse that needed KS surgery and then after the rehab, double ligament surgery.  Rossdales also couldn't guarantee he didn't have other problems because for a year he had tried to compensate for his back and had put strain on the rest of his body prior to diagnosis (even though countless vets had been out to see him they all didn't know what was wrong until he had a scan).

He hadn't gone lame at all and only bucked once we tried the tilldren and shock wave therapy.

He was only 6 but was in enormous amounts of pain (once treatment started)and we couldn't and wouldn't put him through the surgery.  Spine surgery in humans is risky enough and they are far more practised at it.  They gave us such a low % chance that he would recover fully (and be able to have a useful working life rather than stuck in the field) we decided to have him PTS.

Even on a lot of bute he would come in from the field lame if it had rained as the tiny bit of mud would pull on his legs.  He also started to rear when being lead around, but again only if he had had a scoot around the field or it was muddy - we surmised that he wasn't a happy horse and it was our responsibility to ensure the pain didn't go on.

One of the saddest days of my life but I don't regret the decision, I just regret that we didn't find his problem sooner - although I suspect the outcome would have been the same.  IMO there are far too many horses stuck in fields in varying degrees of pain and I couldn't let a 6 yr old add to that number.

I hope that whatever you decide it all goes well.


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## islandspirit (4 March 2011)

Unfortunately retirement isn't an option as he doesn't have the right mental attitude, he likes to be in work. I think he would be miserable and is obviously in pain and is quite aggresive because of it - lots of teeth and feet. I have already explored other avenues, he had 8 weeks off ridden work and was worked only on the pessoa. I had a saddle made for him and had lessons with a very good instructor with lots of work long and low. He loves his work so much that he has never tried to buck me off but can now no longer canter on either rein. Unfortunately there isn't any space between the processes which means that he cannot have steroid injections which leaves me with PTS or surgery.


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## islandspirit (4 March 2011)

Spirit is also very well bred his grand sire was Master Spiritus and he also is supposed to be my horse of a lifetime. Ive had similar problems to barneyhunter getting a diagnosis, vets have given me all sorts of reasons and several cases of misdiagnosis. I eventually took him to Svend Kold at Willesley who said that he was a very unusual case as all the processes have molded into the same shape and fit perfectly with the next which means no gaps at all. I have been told that there is a 75% chance of a return to full work but after trolling through google I it doesn't seem to fit.


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## xxMozlarxx (4 March 2011)

classicalfan said:



			Please think seriously before putting your boy through this sort of surgery.  It is a long recovery period and in our experinece the results are never truly satisfactory.  11 vertebrae is an awful lot.

Some horses respond well to physio and a change of riding style.  Others can enjoy a pain free retirement without the need for surgery.

I have given you my contact details in your mail box.
		
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Please dont listen to this, KS surgery is a 3 month recovery before being able to ride, there are many, many successful ops and I am one of them. I know there are a lot of other people on here who would agree. The surgery is 30mins and some are even done under standing sedation.
Even with ligament problems there can be a good recovery, my horse has just come back from his check up today, he looks and moves like a different horse, he is fit and happy. He has some more recovery to do but I will be riding him shortly. There is a lot which can be done. Pauline on here rehabbed her horse from suspensory ligament tear the size of a golf ball and is now back doing endurance. Svend is my vet, he did my surgery and if he is saying there is a chance then believe him.
I would however be concerned at the amount of processes that need removing.


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## china (4 March 2011)

Where is he going for his surgery? Try not to worry, although that is a severe KS, i attended a KS seminar with a leading surgen in this area and some of the surgeys he talked about were worse and the horse came back to full work and competing. They are usally on box rest for 6 weeks then start pessoa work, and alot of it before riding again. Better to get it done now so hes back in action for the summer. What have your vets said about his chances of a full recovery?


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## pedilia (4 March 2011)

I really do feel for you, my TB had 9 and was operated on last July, even the vets didn't think the op would be sucessful. Everyone said I was mad to put him through the op, that he would never be rideable.

He had about 2 months box rest with twice daily walks in-hand, then we started lunging and longreining, I have the blessing of a horsewalker.
I sat on him after four months, he has had other complications (not due to KS) but is now back in normal work and even jumping again.

Don't give up hope, it's a long road to recovery and there are no guarantees but there is a chance.


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## xxMozlarxx (4 March 2011)

The pessoa work is 6 weeks. You will get very comprehensive instructions about how to do it from Svend and my boys topline is fantastic after 5 weeks.


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## Lynz25 (4 March 2011)

I have another success story mine had 5 very close together right under the saddle and was diagnoses at 7yrs old.  My horse was very nice on the ground but always felt like he was going to explode so we went fot the surgery as for 5 weeks with the trial injection I would have thought someone swapped him.  We got back to ridden jumping again in the autumn of last year.  We had to spend a lot of time getting his balance but I think that was more due to the fact that prior to surgery it was always 1 step forward then a few back.


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## cphillipsball (4 March 2011)

Mine is another success story, my horse was diagnosed after losing a hell of a lot of weight ans refusing to jump. She went through surgery, only 2 vertebrae but same procedure. We are now a year and a half on after 3 months unridden work she is a happier horse and keen to please in all areas. She is jumping 3 ft and loving it. Wouldn't have consider PTS and so pleased she has turned into a star.


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## racingdemon (5 March 2011)

i had a 12yo hunter PTS a few years ago, rather than surgery, i was given a 70% likelihood he would return to some sort of work, but as he was an all or nothing horse, i made the decision to have him PTS, he lived for his work, & well before he started having problems was never a straightforward horse, so i decided i couldn't put him through all the rehab if he never returned to hunting/team chasing ( as much as he was fantastic before he went wrong, he wasn't a quiet/sane/sensible horse & my vet advised me that it would be better to call it a day) 

occasionally i wonder what if.... but TBH he'd have hated the rehab, hated staying at home when other horses went out & personally i think there is a big difference recovering enough to do lightish work & recovering enough to jump the kind of things he used to jump, but what eer you do, its a tough decision, and if you decide not to have the surgery done, its not the wrong thing to do if you think it's right for your horse, only you know that!


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## Racergirl (6 March 2011)

Svend is one of the best guys in the business - if he says it should be fine,then its as certain as its possible to be without a crystal ball...

and its unlikely to be 11 dsps that are removed - usually only alternate ones are taken,so your horse might only lose the tops of 5, which while still a lot (mine would need 4 taken out if I ever decide to do it to her) is completely do-able.

good luck with whatever you decide


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## islandspirit (7 March 2011)

Thank you for all your thoughts and experiences. I have decided to go ahead with the surgery as I would always ask myself 'what if' if I don't. Spirit went up to Gloucester this morning and is now prepped and ready for surgery tomorrow morning. He will have 5 Dorsal Processes removed. I'm still really worried but I have to give my boy a chance. I am confident that he will cope post op as he is used to being stabled as our last yard didn't have turnout and I use a Pessoa with him twice a week already. This may be a stupid question, but, do I need a particular sort of saddle post op? I don't want to spend all this time hopefully getting him back to the stage that I can ride and then ruin everyhthing with the wrong saddle.


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## Lol09 (7 March 2011)

All good wishes for the surgery - will be thinking of you.  x


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## Amymay (7 March 2011)

islandspirit said:



			Unfortunately retirement isn't an option as he doesn't have the right mental attitude, he likes to be in work. I think he would be miserable and is obviously in pain and is quite aggresive because of it - lots of teeth and feet. I have already explored other avenues, he had 8 weeks off ridden work and was worked only on the pessoa. I had a saddle made for him and had lessons with a very good instructor with lots of work long and low. He loves his work so much that he has never tried to buck me off but can now no longer canter on either rein. Unfortunately there isn't any space between the processes which means that he cannot have steroid injections which leaves me with PTS or surgery.
		
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What prognosis has the surgeon given for a full recovery??


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## islandspirit (8 March 2011)

The big day has arrived and I haven't slept a wink! I should hear how the surgery has gone by lunchtime and will keep you posted. I've been given a 75% chance of Spirit returning to competition which I think are good enough odds to give him a chance. I shall be busy this evening changing his bedding at home as he is currently on aquamax but I have been recommended to bed him on shavings post op to limit wound contamination. This will also give me an opportunity to lift his rubber matting and disinfect the floor.


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## xxMozlarxx (8 March 2011)

Hi, Im sure it all went fine. The wound is covered for some time after surgery and a rug needs to be worn so bedding shouldnt be an issue my boy remained in his normal straw bed and his wound was clean as a whistle. You are unlikely to need anything other than a normal saddle, there may be a few dips but it shouldnt affect fit to the extent you need anything special. There is no reason for a horse not to return to its previous work after KS surgery, the problem is whether there is damage anywhere else, ie the ligaments etc. Removing the processes themselves make the horse better able to work if successful. xx


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## islandspirit (18 March 2011)

The surgery went very well, and Spirit seems to be improving every day, thank goodness. I have started a blog about kissing spines following Spirits Op, recovery and rehabilitation as there is a distinct lack of information out there. Please take a look, and add your comments to, it would be nice to think we could help another horse owner who is faced with the decision or not to operate. http://kissingspines.blogspot.com/


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## TicTac (18 March 2011)

My mare ( See photos in post below this, Life after Kissing spine op) had the operation 6 months ago (Spetember 2010 ) 4 pieces of bone removed and suffered an unfortunate nasty infection after due to a reaction to the internal stitches.


In a nutshell , she had an initial period of box rest with daily turnout 2 x per day in small strip. Then into restricted turnout for what should have been 4 weeks, but my mare had other ideas and jumped back into her own paddock after 2 weeks! So I turned her back out in her big paddock. I started lunging her in January and am now back on board and hacking her out 
( March) 

I didn't have to do any intensive re-hab and left her to recover at her own speed with daily care of in at night and out during the day. 2 physio sessions to check all going well and I have now been told that all things considered, she's in excellent condition and that I can start to up her work. 

IMO only people who have put their horses through this kind of operation can offer sensible advice. Like everything, for some it works and others it doesn't and both my physio and vet said that a good recovery is dependent on Kissing spine being the only problem, ie not related to hind leg problems or pelvis etc.

I couldn't be happier with my mare and she is testimony to a succesful outcome. PM me if I can help you further.


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## TicTac (18 March 2011)

I would just like to add in a slightly miffed tone that many many people seem to be happy to spread doom and gloom about this kind of condition but when I put piccys and a small post recently about how pleased I was that my mare was back in work I got very few replies.

Sometimes it would be nice for people to offer a few words of praise. Maybe I should learn to phrase my headings a bit more dramatically as they seem to be the ones that grab the attention............winge over!


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## islandspirit (19 March 2011)

Thank you TicTac, I agree,  I seem to have found more doom and gloom on here than positive end results which is why I started a blog about Spirit. I will do everything I can to bring him back into full work and felt that if I shared the whole experience, people faced with the same decision to op or not might find it useful. On a positive note, today I groomed Spirit and for the first time ever he didn't try to kill me and he is much more interested in me. The walking in hand is becoming interesting though, he obviously feels better and has eyes on stalks at everything and I received my bill to date this morning, which was scary! So far, I am pleased that I decided to go for the op, a few friends, were quite against the idea which is why I posted in the first place and I totally agree that the best person to ask for advice is someone who has been through the same thing. It's lovely to hear that, so far, you are having great results and are back on board, I for one would love to be kept updated as to your progress.


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## Jodies9154 (19 March 2011)

Don't listen to the people that say plainly no and that it doesn't work and is hopeless. Every case is individual and depending on the problema and the horse how it will go afterwards.   I have seen plenty of these carried out with horses standing in stocks.... It isn't the same as human spinal surgery...the dorsal spinous processes are rather large and although obviously there is a risk with any surgery let alone around the spine, I havent seen any that have had complications due to close proximity to the spinal cord or anything.  Recovery takes time, effort and patience but at the end of it you may have your horse back and ready to ride without the aggression.

Trust your vets...they are the ones that have met and assessed your horse personally.


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## kerilli (19 March 2011)

just to add to the good ones, i had a horse operated on for this many years ago and he came right afterwards. 
islandspirit, well done for giving your boy the chance, i hope it is a total success.


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## islandspirit (20 March 2011)

Thank you for the encouragement everyone. Does anyone have any advice on staying alive whilst walking in hand? Spirit has been on box rest since before Christmas due to my previous vet misdiagnosing him with Bone Spavin in both hocks, arthritis of the right stifle and higher suspensory desmitis of the right hind. After a total of 6 steroid injections and some dubious advice about shock wave therapy I changed vets and hey presto, on his first visit the new vet told me Spirit had a back problem and referred me to Sven at Willesley. The awful thing is that on re x ray (because the originals were too poor quality and not clear), there is no bone spavin or arthritis. Spirit had been great during the pre op box rest but I realise now that this was because he was still in pain and now that he's feeling better he's like a 2 year old. What do you think about calmers: do they work? And, if so, which is the best?


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## quizzie (20 March 2011)

islandspirit said:



			. Does anyone have any advice on staying alive whilst walking in hand?
		
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I did my "walking in hand" in a sand school, using 2 lunge lines to lunge/long-rein him, as that kept us at a slightly safer distance from each other, & enabled me to exert at least some control!!!! .....but do wear gloves/hat to do so.....!

He came back to eventing approx 9 mths after surgery, & was fine until he injured a frontleg a year later.......some horses seem to love to find different problems for us each time!!!  His back has never given him any more trouble.


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## dominobrown (20 March 2011)

I glad you decided to get the surgery. My horse had the op June 2009. Despite what people say on here several vets have told me that the prognosis is good. Once the bones with  a rubbing together are removed there is nothing there, although with all big surgery there is a risk.

My horse has 2 weeks solid box rest, then walking out in hand for 5 minutes a twice a day building up after 4 weeks to 30 min twice a  day. Then I started long reining, and lunging in a chambon building it up slowly. After 6 weeks we began ridden work starting at 10 mins building up to 1 hour a day then introduced trot work. He started gentle canters in November 09. The vets told me that the ligaments and muscles need built up after the op so solid box rest for ages will not help, but gentle exercise to strengthen the back, so once the wound etc is healed lunging in a chambon or pessoa is useful.
In March we went for our first SJ comp post op, starting with the small classes. We came home with 2 2nds and a 3rd! He is a different horse! He was barely rideable.
We started BE eventing in June 2010, nearly a year after the op....
Here is a pic...
http://johngracing.thirdlight.com/viewpicturepreview.tlx?z=1&albumid=273028&pictureid=12842400
We got 5th in our first ever BE event. This was the first time he had been round a full xc course!
I now have an event horse which I could never afford to buy!
Good luck with your horse.
p.s I found the Equilibrium Magnetic back pad and massage back pad very useful


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## Laura1812 (21 March 2011)

I put my horse through this surgery - he had 3 processes removed. I didn't have a successful outcome.

In your situation though I think I would probably try the surgery as a last attempt - I think....

Also another aspect you need to think about (harsh but true) is if your horse is insured.... If you just PTS you will not get your money for value - you need to try every avenue before they will pay out and PTS needs to be done as a last resort on welfare grounds as reccommended by a vet.

It depends how much you need your insurance pay out for your horses value


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## islandspirit (21 March 2011)

dominobrown said:



			I glad you decided to get the surgery. My horse had the op June 2009. Despite what people say on here several vets have told me that the prognosis is good. Once the bones with  a rubbing together are removed there is nothing there, although with all big surgery there is a risk.

My horse has 2 weeks solid box rest, then walking out in hand for 5 minutes a twice a day building up after 4 weeks to 30 min twice a  day. Then I started long reining, and lunging in a chambon building it up slowly. After 6 weeks we began ridden work starting at 10 mins building up to 1 hour a day then introduced trot work. He started gentle canters in November 09. The vets told me that the ligaments and muscles need built up after the op so solid box rest for ages will not help, but gentle exercise to strengthen the back, so once the wound etc is healed lunging in a chambon or pessoa is useful.
In March we went for our first SJ comp post op, starting with the small classes. We came home with 2 2nds and a 3rd! He is a different horse! He was barely rideable.
We started BE eventing in June 2010, nearly a year after the op....
Here is a pic...
http://johngracing.thirdlight.com/viewpicturepreview.tlx?z=1&albumid=273028&pictureid=12842400
We got 5th in our first ever BE event. This was the first time he had been round a full xc course!
I now have an event horse which I could never afford to buy!
Good luck with your horse.
p.s I found the Equilibrium Magnetic back pad and massage back pad very useful
		
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Thank you for the advice, your horse looks fantastic now, congratulations! Can I ask how old he is? And, how many processes he had removed? I think I may have been slightly naive as I hadn't realised that the ridden work would take so long to build up, I only hope I can keep spirit sane for that amount of time. He's a big boy, 17hh thoroughbred and he has a tendancy to need to go for a blast every so ofen to blow the cobwebs out and keep him manageable.


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## islandspirit (21 March 2011)

Laura1812 said:



			I put my horse through this surgery - he had 3 processes removed. I didn't have a successful outcome.

In your situation though I think I would probably try the surgery as a last attempt - I think....

Also another aspect you need to think about (harsh but true) is if your horse is insured.... If you just PTS you will not get your money for value - you need to try every avenue before they will pay out and PTS needs to be done as a last resort on welfare grounds as reccommended by a vet.

It depends how much you need your insurance pay out for your horses value
		
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I'm so sorry to hear that you didn't have a successful outcome to the surgery. I don't want to be rude or pry but could I ask what went wrong? What symptoms did he have beforehand which led to the diagnosis of kissing spines? Did you follow a rehab programme post surgery? All in all, Spirit seems to be happier now that he has had the surgery so at least the pain has reduced, I now just have to hope and prey that he will return to full performance.


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## Laura1812 (21 March 2011)

I think he was damaged possibly during either knockdown or recovery. He developed significant atrophy post surgery over his quarters, lost all power and muscle in his lumbar region and his pelvis started clunking. He could not tolerate a saddle.

I followed a strict 12 week pessoa regime post surgery as advised by the surgeon, all to no avail. He is now retired aged just 10.

Symptoms that led to diagnosis were an inability to bascule over a fence and dropping his back away from the saddle occasionally. He never bucked or got nasty.

Fingers crossed for your boy - im pleased to hear he has gone through the surgery ok


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## TicTac (21 March 2011)

My mare had her operation standing in stocks and under heavy sedation ( the back was then thoroughly anaesthetised ) This seems to be the ' modern' way if doing this operation with a more positive outcome as it involves less trauma and swelling etc I probably would have not considered the op otherwise.


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## xxMozlarxx (21 March 2011)

My horse had the op lying down, it didnt cause any more problems than standing, no 'trauma' nor swelling, they are up in 20mins.

Island spirit, I would really recommend calmers, ask for Potassium Bromide and use it until you are in regular work, I also used a sedative for the first 4 days of turnout.


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## islandspirit (22 March 2011)

Spirits op was lying down and took an hour and three quarters to complete, he had T12, T14, T16, T18 and L2 removed, you can see a picture of the stitches on my blog (I Think there's a link in one of my earlier posts), they are very neat and have healed beautifully. No swelling at all. His stitches are due out later today which is great as you can see that they are starting to pull now and I think he will be more comfortable after removal. The walking in hand has calmed down a little as I've started walking round the school rather than a route around the yard, I think he feels safer in there for some reason and relaxes rather than looking for the next clump of daffodils to spook at! I've got him on Magnitude calmer at the moment which was recommended by one of the other liveries. I haven't used a calmer before, so am not that up to speed with them. Now, if it was a joint supplement, I've used nearly all of them, and it would be a completely different matter! I am definitely going to request some sedalin for the first few days turn out though. When the pessoaing starts, how many times a day did everyone lunge, and how long did you start off with and build up to time wise?


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## xxMozlarxx (22 March 2011)

Svend does all his ops lying down, it doesnt seem to cause problems.We started the lunging at 10mins at walk. We just kept adding more each week until we were up to 30mins then added poles and canter. It is best not to try to push things too fast. I gave up on the pessoa, it worked Ok for the first few weeks but used side reins once we upped the work.There are good days and bad. Svend is my normal vet so we have the luxury of all our checkups and ongoing treatment from him directly, I call him loads for advice or to talk something over.
Potassium Bromide seems very gentle, just takes the excitable edge off but doesnt dope them, recommend for any road work.


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## BethH (23 March 2011)

I read a lot of the comments on here with dismay and agree that you can only really understand this once you have been through the surgery, so I would take advice from those that are informed (no offence intended!).  Svend operated on my horse 5yrs ago this April, he was behaviourally so difficult, he becamer completely dangerous and the recommendation was that unless he had surgery he should be PTS.  We knew he was a lovely person underneath the pain so took the decision to give him a chance.

He has gone from an unrideable, unmanageable nightmare, to a fantastic little horse where every physio that has ever checked him is gobsmacked he has had KS surgery.  He is now competing novice and working towards elementary dressage, not bad for a horse that couldn't move his back legs like a horse and paddled like a cow even in walk pre-op.

The rehab is key, take your time to build basic core strength with long and low muscle building work - my horse has never looked back, it has taken a long time to get him over the mental impact of being in so much pain but because we have concentrated so thoroughtly on correct schooling, my instructor is fully expecting him to still be working and going out and about well into his 20's!

Well done for giving your horse a chance, I have a feeling he may surprise you with the outcome!

Beth


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## islandspirit (23 March 2011)

Yay, the stitches are out. Everyone is being so helpful and positive, it really has given me the mental boost I needed, thank you. I can't believe how different Spirit is already. It's so soon after the surgery but he now crosses his back legs when we turn to get back into the stable after our walks, before the op he sort of shuffled them like a crab! And, as he came round from the sedative, he was nuzzling me! can't believe it, he hasn't nuzzled me for a good couple of years!


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## TicTac (23 March 2011)

Here's my mare. she had her op last september to remove 4 pieces of bone.


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## xxMozlarxx (23 March 2011)

great pics Tic Tac


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## islandspirit (24 March 2011)

Lovely pictures TicTac, it's lovely to see a success story. A friend came over to see me and Spirit last night as she has a 2 year old mare that has suspected kissing spines shes been turned away in a herd to finish growing. My friend had also been very worried about the possibility of the op after coming on the H&H forum but after seeing Spirit and having a chat feels much better about the op, should it become necessary. We should keep the thread going for as long as we can, to help others out there. And I'd love to see other pictures of post op horses, like TicTacs.


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## Luci07 (24 March 2011)

My friends horse has gone through KS surgery so second hand but he seems to be making really good progress, even if the actual op was a tad hair raising I understand. My friend wasn't helped by the fact that we had the heavy snow just when he was supposed to be starting to work again so she was reduced to walking him in the barn in hand when it was quiet!. However, he is now finally back in ridden work and fittening up, still turned out solo for his mooch and is much much nicer under saddle. My friend made the decision to go for the surgery as he is one of the nicest horses in the yard so felt he would cope better than most with the recovery. Have to say I was not keen on looking at the stitches though when he came home!


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## dominobrown (26 March 2011)

islandspirit said:



			Thank you for the advice, your horse looks fantastic now, congratulations! Can I ask how old he is? And, how many processes he had removed? I think I may have been slightly naive as I hadn't realised that the ridden work would take so long to build up, I only hope I can keep spirit sane for that amount of time. He's a big boy, 17hh thoroughbred and he has a tendancy to need to go for a blast every so ofen to blow the cobwebs out and keep him manageable.
		
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Sorry to just back to you now.. He is 11 now, 9 when he had the op.He is also 16.3hh TB. He has 3 removed.
He has since done everything since the op. He was even the hunt horse at the point to point and impressed a lot a people! He was so sensible, which just isn't like him! (Well it is now). Better than the masters horse, and I could of sold him then and there. Glad to her your horse is going well. Can't wait to see the first ridden pictures!


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## islandspirit (28 March 2011)

Spirit is still doing well and the walking in hand has started to get easier, I think, because it is becoming routine. I've been thinking about getting my back lady out and doing carrot stretches to help keep him flexible. When would be the right time to start? I don't want to overdo things but have been reading a book lent to me by a friend called ' How to activate your horses core' and can really see the benefits of the stretches to start building some topline and abdominal muscles especially as it encourages movement of the spine in all directions.


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## donald. (2 April 2011)

Please don't PTS. My horse had kissing spine and many other physical problems. I did go for surgery but wish I hadn't as this just caused more problems and 25K later and two years on the VETS suggested PTS or retirement .  
However after researching other options I came across Michael Peace, after 2 weeks at Michaels yard he's like a different horse.  I only wish I did this sooner and saved the poor boy the pain and emotional trauma of surgery.


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## islandspirit (6 April 2011)

donald. said:



			Please don't PTS. My horse had kissing spine and many other physical problems. I did go for surgery but wish I hadn't as this just caused more problems and 25K later and two years on the VETS suggested PTS or retirement .  
However after researching other options I came across Michael Peace, after 2 weeks at Michaels yard he's like a different horse.  I only wish I did this sooner and saved the poor boy the pain and emotional trauma of surgery.
		
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I haven't put to sleep, and decided to go for the op. What other problems did your horse have? And how has Michael Peace helped? I'm very intrigued!


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## TicTac (6 April 2011)

How is your horse doing at the moment islandspirit? x


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## islandspirit (6 April 2011)

TicTac said:



			How is your horse doing at the moment islandspirit? x
		
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He's doing really well, thank you. The walking in hand is much better than I thought it would be, he's very calm and seems to be enjoying it. He can now cross his back legs when walked in a tight circle which has only got to be a good thing. I've got two more weeks of box rest with walking in hand and then he can be turned out, all be it on a postage stamp! He is also a much nicer horse to be around, I don't think he's ever going to be the cuddliest of horses but he is definitely not as ready to lash out and much more interested in the goings on at the yard. The only downside is that his back in profile undulates which is taking some getting used to and I'm not sure if it will improve with time. How's your horse? Are you still going in the right direction? At what point did you know that the op had worked? I'm guessing that I will have to wait until I get back on! My saddler is booked for the 8Th of June, so I guess that's the day I will know for sure.


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## liona123 (15 April 2011)

My mum's horse had the operation 3 months ago and she got the all clear to be ridden last week.  If you have the time / money to pay someone else to do all of the aftercare then I would go for it, it is so easily treated and most horses go back to ridden work at the same or a higher level


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## islandspirit (15 April 2011)

In hindsight a Rehab yard would have been very useful! I'm a week away from turning out and the walking in hand has become a nightmare. I tried using sedalin for 4 days and on the fourth he had a bought of colic an hour after we gave him the sedalin. First time I've had to deal with colic and it was not easy trying to keep a mildly sedated horse from doing damage to himself.


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## annielade (16 April 2011)

I would like to say a big thank you for this forum, and particularly to Island Spirit, Tictac and Mozlar.  My daughter's lovely KWPN mare has just been diagnosed with KS (only 2 vetebrae, thankfully) and it has been so helpful to read this, (and your blog, Island Spirit).  We are not so downhearted as we were a few days ago.  We are v. lucky in that our vet is Willesley.  For the moment we have gone for the steroid injections, but with all we have read, are feeling much more positive about the idea of surgery.  My daughter's mare has not a nasty bone in her body and has never done anything more than an occasional stop, and it was only after stepping up her work as the season began that we realised she was in pain.  (Actually, it was our brilliant instructor, Pat, who came over to see her a few days after a BE event when we had gone away, who saw she wasn't right.)
The next decision is when is the best time to have the surgery?  She had the steroid injections just a few days ago - are they likely to make her comfortable enough to allow her to work normally for a while?  Could we get through the summer and then have the surgery?  (There's Pony Club Camp, Area competitions etc.)  Or would it be better to just bite the bullet and do it sooner rather than later?  My daughter is 16 and had her summer planned with PC activities plus BE eventing.  Any advice would be very welcome


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## islandspirit (17 April 2011)

annielade said:



			I would like to say a big thank you for this forum, and particularly to Island Spirit, Tictac and Mozlar.  My daughter's lovely KWPN mare has just been diagnosed with KS (only 2 vetebrae, thankfully) and it has been so helpful to read this, (and your blog, Island Spirit).  We are not so downhearted as we were a few days ago.  We are v. lucky in that our vet is Willesley.  For the moment we have gone for the steroid injections, but with all we have read, are feeling much more positive about the idea of surgery.  My daughter's mare has not a nasty bone in her body and has never done anything more than an occasional stop, and it was only after stepping up her work as the season began that we realised she was in pain.  (Actually, it was our brilliant instructor, Pat, who came over to see her a few days after a BE event when we had gone away, who saw she wasn't right.)
The next decision is when is the best time to have the surgery?  She had the steroid injections just a few days ago - are they likely to make her comfortable enough to allow her to work normally for a while?  Could we get through the summer and then have the surgery?  (There's Pony Club Camp, Area competitions etc.)  Or would it be better to just bite the bullet and do it sooner rather than later?  My daughter is 16 and had her summer planned with PC activities plus BE eventing.  Any advice would be very welcome
		
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Hello Annielade, thank you for your kind words, I started the thread and blog out of a mixture of panic, lack of knowledge, a need for reassurance and wanting to help other people in the same position as me. I'd found a whole host of negative information out there on the interweb and was so relieved to find some great support on the H&H forum.
I'm so sorry to hear that your daughters mare has been diagnosed with kissing spines, the good news though is that there is a good success rate with the op and although no one wants to be in our position, and the rehab is hard work, it is not the end of the world. You are also lucky to have the best KS surgeon in the country to perform the op who I have bombarded with questions and phone calls and is always on hand for advice.
I am probably not the best person to advise as and when to go ahead with the op as I didn't have a choice, it was op or PTS. My decision wasn't easy but as I only had the 2 choices it was less complicated. The only thing I would say is that the rehab is time consuming even though Spirit is on full livery and I would advise a rehab yard (I dream of a horse walker at the moment) or to have the op during the lighter months. The walking in hand is bad enough when you can walk in daylight but can you imagine the spooks you would have to manage in the dark! And turning out in muddy fields means constantly hosing down and the possibility of slipping.
All told, March was a good time for the op, it was just before the clock change, not to hot, not to cold and I shall hopefully be back on board by mid June to start fittening and hill work before the winter closes in on us.
I really hope everything goes well for you, please keep us up to date, I would love to hear how your getting on.


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## Bedlam (17 April 2011)

Hi - I think it also depends on your insurance company to be honest. It's not a cheap operation with all the rehab that goes into it afterwards. My mare's injections wore off after about 6 weeks which was when we decided to go for surgery. 

You only have 12 months usually from diagnosis to end of payments - so make sure you don't stick with injections so long that you run out of time for the surgery and the physion afterwards. That was what decided us to go for surgery after 1 set of injections to be honest. We managed to get it all paid for except the last physio visit within 12 months of initial diagnosis.

I understand you duaghter's dilemma though, so it might be worth sitting down and working out time scales. I have to say that my daughter had one of the best Pony Club summers of her life while our mare was off work due to the op. We took on a 4 year old just backed 13.3 pony for her to play with over the summer and they had a blast - ended up doing Gosling Cup and passing her B test on her. So although your summer might not be quite what was planned, in my experience opportunities often present themselves at just the right time. (I have to say that B test examiner was most impressed with daughter's knowledge of horse rehab.......!!!!).


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## V1NN (17 April 2011)

Hey their, just wanted to say i have just read this whole thread and your blog and found it so interesting. I'v never had personal experience of kissing spines but my previous instructor i remember her buying 2 well bred youngsters and the one that she had the most high hopes for started behaving very badly when she tried to back him, it was just literally impossible and very dangerous, his temperament was awful to and she eventually got a diagnosis of kissing spines. He had the op (not sure how bad it was.) and now he is a very succesfull dressage horse in fact he's her top horse at the moment competing at prix st georges level. Best of luck with Spirit and i hope he continues to heal well and go on with his career again..x


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## islandspirit (17 April 2011)

Frube said:



			Hey their, just wanted to say i have just read this whole thread and your blog and found it so interesting. I'v never had personal experience of kissing spines but my previous instructor i remember her buying 2 well bred youngsters and the one that she had the most high hopes for started behaving very badly when she tried to back him, it was just literally impossible and very dangerous, his temperament was awful to and she eventually got a diagnosis of kissing spines. He had the op (not sure how bad it was.) and now he is a very succesfull dressage horse in fact he's her top horse at the moment competing at prix st georges level. Best of luck with Spirit and i hope he continues to heal well and go on with his career again..x
		
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Hi Frube

Thank you for your post, I wonder if you could help Tallulahbright with her worries at the moment? She has a thread about her unbacked three year old with KS  in the Veterinary Forum as well but hasn't had any replies and is obviously worried. I haven't posted as I don't have any experience of KS in youngsters but I'm sure she'd appreciate some feedback.

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=449479


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## TicTac (17 April 2011)

annielade said:



			I would like to say a big thank you for this forum, and particularly to Island Spirit, Tictac and Mozlar.  My daughter's lovely KWPN mare has just been diagnosed with KS (only 2 vetebrae, thankfully) and it has been so helpful to read this, (and your blog, Island Spirit).  We are not so downhearted as we were a few days ago.  We are v. lucky in that our vet is Willesley.  For the moment we have gone for the steroid injections, but with all we have read, are feeling much more positive about the idea of surgery.  My daughter's mare has not a nasty bone in her body and has never done anything more than an occasional stop, and it was only after stepping up her work as the season began that we realised she was in pain.  (Actually, it was our brilliant instructor, Pat, who came over to see her a few days after a BE event when we had gone away, who saw she wasn't right.)
The next decision is when is the best time to have the surgery?  She had the steroid injections just a few days ago - are they likely to make her comfortable enough to allow her to work normally for a while?  Could we get through the summer and then have the surgery?  (There's Pony Club Camp, Area competitions etc.)  Or would it be better to just bite the bullet and do it sooner rather than later?  My daughter is 16 and had her summer planned with PC activities plus BE eventing.  Any advice would be very welcome
		
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You're very welcome   My mare was diagnosed last may and she had the jabs but they didn;t work. I chose to wait and have her op at the end of the summer when the weather was not too hot so she had her op 31st august. after her few weeks of box rest and very small turnout out 2 x per day ( didn't have to do walking, different vet and different programe) she went out all day into restricted turnout. That only lasted 2 weeks as she got fed up and jumped back into her big field!! ( aarrrgh ) So, I turned her out into her paddock and she was fine as there was plenty of grass. By now it was nearly end of october. She went out in the field every day through the winter and came in at night. I started lunging her mid jan when all the snow and ice had gone and I am hacking her out now. She is absolutely fine. My re-hab was no where near as intensive as some have had to put their horses through, It wouldn't have worked for my mare ( or me  lol) and the field rest she had seemed the best option for her.

Good luck with whatever you decided to do with your horse and rest assured, you will have plenty of people able to help you through any mini crisis that may or may not arrise!!!


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## annielade (18 April 2011)

Thank you for all your messages, which have all been helpful.  We are very much veering towards the op, although will give the steroid injections a chance for a few more weeks.  We are lucky in that our mare is in a livery yard 5 mins walk from home, and there is a large indoor school, a horse walker, and good hacking, so everything we need for the rehab.  Still deciding on best timescale, though, and all your thoughts on that have been v. helpful.  We went to try a possible loan today, and liked her enough to say yes, please - and are just waiting to hear if owner is happy with us having her.  It means my daughter will have something to ride over the summer, and we can take our time with the rehab, there will be no pressure to rush things.
Was really interesting to hear the different take on rehab from Tictac - will definitely discuss different options with the vet.
Will let you know how we get on.  Thanks again for all the input.


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