# Changing the condition of sale



## Luthianblue (2 December 2021)

I'm looking for some advice if possible. I had a horse on full loan from a riding school. They were going to sell her as she wasn't suitable, was sitting as a field ornament for years. 
I worked with her and made real progress so I asked to by her. They agreed, apparently they were going to give me notice on my loan and sell her anyway. The sale took weeks to go through, for no particular reason other than staff being busy. 
A price was agreed verbally, I transferred the money (stupid I know), then about a week later I asked for passport etc. 
They produce this contract, asking for more money than I paid and a condition that she stay at their livery for 6 months. 
I had already planned to move her somewhere with better facilities /turnout etc. They now are refusing to sell her. 
Do I have a leg to stand on? Anyone know?


----------



## Pearlsasinger (2 December 2021)

I think you need qualified legal advice.  Have they kept your money?


----------



## Amymay (2 December 2021)

What have they done with the money you gave them?


----------



## Luthianblue (2 December 2021)

They still have it.


----------



## Luthianblue (2 December 2021)

Pearlsacarolsinger said:



			I think you need qualified legal advice.  Have they kept your money?
		
Click to expand...

Yeah they still have my money.


----------



## Amymay (2 December 2021)

Luthianblue said:



			Yeah they still have my money.
		
Click to expand...

Have you asked for it to be returned?


----------



## Luthianblue (2 December 2021)

They did say they will return the money if I don't agree to the additional terms. 
They know I have affection for the horse, and I think they are taking advantage of that.


----------



## Amymay (2 December 2021)

Luthianblue said:



			They did say they will return the money if I don't agree to the additional terms.
They know I have affection for the horse, and I think they are taking advantage of that.
		
Click to expand...

Ask for the money to be returned tomorrow. And walk away.


----------



## Caol Ila (2 December 2021)

Are you a BHS member? If so, call their helpline and take advantage of their free legal advice.


----------



## Red-1 (2 December 2021)

If the horse is important to you, I would say he/she is yours already. A price was agreed, you paid. Simple. You would need a solicitor though, I would think a strongly worded letter may do it. Otherwise, I would walk away. 

Unless the extra payment is affordable, and you still consider the deal worth doing?


----------



## ihatework (2 December 2021)

Speak to BHS legal team to see if you have any leg to stand on under the verbal agreement and payment you made. It could constitute a legal sale, but you would need legal to get into the nitty gritty of it,

Oyherwise call their bluff, get your refund and give them the metaphorical two fingers.


----------



## AFishOutOfWater (2 December 2021)

You need to either get your money back, walk away and accept you won't get the horse; OR get a solicitor involved if you want the horse for the original amount.


----------



## jkitten (2 December 2021)

How much more are they asking for? Would you have paid that/thought it was a fair pricr if they'd stated it originally? Would you be able to get something similar that you like as much for what you originally paid?

They're playing massively unfair, but if there's one thing working in law and then finance has taught me is that sometimes it's a question of picking your battles, of thinking about what you actually want in the situation and what you are prepared to give for it, on every level (money, time, stress).

Whatever you decide though make sure you get that 6 month clause nixed, if you manage to get the horse, no matter what you end up paying for her, the last thing you want is to be dealing with these people for a second longer than you have to.


----------



## Amymay (2 December 2021)

It’s not just the additional money though, it’s the conditions they’re also trying to impose (however unenforceable).


----------



## I'm Dun (2 December 2021)

Go out for a hack, load the horse up discreetly and take it away. You paid, its yours. They can chase you through the courts if they want. They wont.


----------



## jkitten (2 December 2021)

Yeah the conditions would def be a no go for me in any circumstances. However if OP decides that the extra money would be worth it to get the horse and get away from these people, she might find that they back down from the conditions if she is firm on that but gives them the ££ thry want. For people like this it's always about the ££, and sometimes giving it to them is cheaper than any of the alternatives when all is said and done (and sometimes it's not - I'm not saying OP should take this route, just weigh up all the options carefully).


----------



## I'm Dun (2 December 2021)

Once you pay the horse is yours. They accepted the money. They cant come back and change terms afterwards. 

I sold a little mare as broodmare and light hack. She was on loan with a view to buy. I asked for her back as I wasnt happy with the set up, they transferred the money to me that day and there was nothing I could do. The horse was sold and no longer mine. Legal advice was to walk away, even if what they had done was morally wrong.


----------



## I'm Dun (2 December 2021)

Amymay in a manger said:



			It’s not just the additional money though, it’s the conditions they’re also trying to impose (however unenforceable).
		
Click to expand...

The clause wont be enforceable once the horse is sold.


----------



## Amymay (2 December 2021)

I'm Dun said:



			The clause wont be enforceable once the horse is sold.
		
Click to expand...

No, it wouldn’t. But who wants to enter in to all that hassle?


----------



## Vodkagirly (2 December 2021)

Do you have anything in writing confirming the original price?


----------



## Luthianblue (3 December 2021)

I'm going to call the bhs helpline today, see how I get on. I fear I'll need to walk away though


----------



## luckyoldme (3 December 2021)

I love I'm Duns advice 
They sound like they play by their own rules so play by theirs.
I'm not sure I would have the guts to do it but it would be a great thing to do.
What a bunch of @@##### s.


----------



## MissTyc (3 December 2021)

Vodkagirly said:



			Do you have anything in writing confirming the original price?
		
Click to expand...


If you have something in writing confirming the original price + evidence of paying this price, then pick up your horse and move her. 
They won't get far in any court  with their idea of post-sale additional  conditions.  The lack of receipt is annoying, but their proposal of a price + your acceptance and payment of that price constitutes a verbal contract - even without evidence, but let's be honest you do need written evidence to protect yourself. 
Then either apply pressure for the original passport, or forget about it and start again. A friendly vet will help you. I've never had a problem when buying horses from the gypsies. They all  come with BHS passports and may or may not be in the name of the person that currently owns them -  never ever had a problem getting a passport transferred to my name without any evidence of purchase at all, or applying for a new one on the basis the old is lost and I can't remember the PIO ...


----------



## Equi (3 December 2021)

A verbal agreement is still an agreement but it would be your word against theirs in a legal battle. I’d be most inclined to just call their bluff and say we’ll that’s not what I agreed to so send my money back and I’ll bill you for the hours I’ve worked sorting out your horse in between.


----------



## Pearlsasinger (3 December 2021)

I'm Dun said:



			Go out for a hack, load the horse up discreetly and take it away. You paid, its yours. They can chase you through the courts if they want. They wont.
		
Click to expand...


That would be very tempting to me but I would want to check out the legality of it first.


----------



## I'm Dun (3 December 2021)

Amymay in a manger said:



			No, it wouldn’t. But who wants to enter in to all that hassle?
		
Click to expand...

What hassle? There wont be any. idiots like this wont spend money on a court case that a solictior will advise they will loose.


----------



## Amymay (3 December 2021)

I'm Dun said:



			What hassle? There wont be any. idiots like this wont spend money on a court case that a solictior will advise they will loose.
		
Click to expand...

The hassle of trying to remove the horse from the yard.


----------



## Luthianblue (3 December 2021)

Got legal advice, they are in breach of contract, and the horse became mine as soon as they confirmed receipt of sale. So I was told to write them an email stating that they were in breach and see what happens. 
Not sure what to do in meantime though.


----------



## Amymay (3 December 2021)

Luthianblue said:



			Got legal advice, they are in breach of contract, and the horse became mine as soon as they confirmed receipt of sale. So I was told to write them an email stating that they were in breach and see what happens.
Not sure what to do in meantime though.
		
Click to expand...

Do you hack the horse off site?


----------



## Amymay (3 December 2021)

How much extra money do they want?


----------



## Pearlsasinger (3 December 2021)

Luthianblue said:



			Got legal advice, they are in breach of contract, and the horse became mine as soon as they confirmed receipt of sale. So I was told to write them an email stating that they were in breach and see what happens.
Not sure what to do in meantime though.
		
Click to expand...


I would hack off the yard and keep him somewhere else, even if you have to put him in temporary accommodation.   Then send the email.  I wouldn't email them while he is still on the yard, just in case some harm befalls the horse.


----------



## Luthianblue (3 December 2021)

Oh god, never even thought that


----------



## irishdraft (3 December 2021)

As you have been given legal advice the horse is yours I think I would be quitely turning up and either hack the horse off the premises if you own the tack or just removing him by other means . I'm not sure what these people will be able to do to force their new conditions on you once the horse has gone x


----------



## Luthianblue (3 December 2021)

They are holding her passport hostage, is there ways to replace that?


----------



## Hepsibah (3 December 2021)

Luthianblue said:



			They are holding her passport hostage, is there ways to replace that?
		
Click to expand...

Yes, you just apply for a replacement one


----------



## Amymay (3 December 2021)

Luthianblue said:



			They are holding her passport hostage, is there ways to replace that?
		
Click to expand...

Yep, just apply for another one.


----------



## Pearlsasinger (3 December 2021)

Luthianblue said:



			They are holding her passport hostage, is there ways to replace that?
		
Click to expand...


Remember that the passport is not proof of ownership - as above, just apply for a new one.


----------



## Red-1 (3 December 2021)

So you have a receipt of sale?

In that case, happy days. You now have no relationship with them anyway, they have soured it and I doubt you will ever trust them again. 

With a receipt of sale, I would feel happy to go out hacking and arrange to be picked up to be taken to your new yard. 

For me, I would also like the solicitor's recommendations in writing.


----------



## Pinkvboots (3 December 2021)

I would just sort out transport and take your horse you have paid for her so she is yours you haven't signed anything to say you agree to keep her there. Passport is not proof of ownership anyway just apply for a replacement.


----------



## Pearlsasinger (3 December 2021)

Do let us know how you get on, OP.


----------



## Luthianblue (3 December 2021)

They've come back again saying they will scrap the contract but I have to pay an extra 500 for her. 
If I wasn't emotionally attached I'd say bugger off, but I am, so I might just get this drama over with


----------



## Amymay (3 December 2021)

Completely outrageous!


----------



## Amymay (3 December 2021)

What did you originally pay?


----------



## Luthianblue (3 December 2021)

3500


----------



## Pearlsasinger (3 December 2021)

If you have got a receipt I would just get her out of there.  If you pay extra once, there is nothing to stop them asking for more.


----------



## Amymay (3 December 2021)

Luthianblue said:



			3500
		
Click to expand...

Quite a lot of money then.

Tell them ‘no’ and tell them to refund your money now.  If they refuse remove your property immediately.


----------



## Meredith (3 December 2021)

Luthianblue said:



			Got legal advice, they are in breach of contract, and the horse became mine as soon as they confirmed receipt of sale. So I was told to write them an email stating that they were in breach and see what happens.
Not sure what to do in meantime though.
		
Click to expand...




Luthianblue said:



			They've come back again saying they will scrap the contract but I have to pay an extra 500 for her.
If I wasn't emotionally attached I'd say bugger off, but I am, so I might just get this drama over with
		
Click to expand...

I don’t know anything about sales and purchase law but I would check with your legal advisor the legality of this price increase. If you have been told the horse is legally yours I suspect they cannot increase the price now.


----------



## I'm Dun (3 December 2021)

honestly, just go and get the horse. If you think there will be drama, call the police and have it logged as a priority, that way if it kicks off they will come out and assist you and the horse off the yard. Dont mess about with emails etc. Get the horse out then you can go back and deal with the outstanding issues.


----------



## AShetlandBitMeOnce (3 December 2021)

I'm Dun said:



			Go out for a hack, load the horse up discreetly and take it away. You paid, its yours. They can chase you through the courts if they want. They wont.
		
Click to expand...

This is what I was going to say, pay the extra (if reasonable, you could spend the extra paying a solicitor to fight it) and don't bring anything extra down. Take horse or a hack one day and have a lorry waiting, text once you have left and say you aren't coming back. They may raise drama with your new yard though so I would mention it beforehand of course.  They won't chase you for the pony as once the item is sold that contract is worth about as much as the paper it's written on.

ETA: I'd tell them to FO re: asking for an extra £500! If you bought a Hermes handbag and then Hermes emailed you two weeks later to ask for an extra few hundred, you wouldn't be hopping straight in the car to pay it. They are chancing their arm, and the fact that you know you are leally right, and they know they don't have a leg to stand on, hence dropping the conditions I would just take the horse and go.


----------



## Luthianblue (3 December 2021)

Thanks everyone for all the help. I'll send an update when I get her out!


----------



## SatansLittleHelper (3 December 2021)

What a pain in the ar$e. I'd just remove the horse, she belongs to you and you have legal advice to back it up. I hope you can sort it without too much drama x


----------



## Equi (3 December 2021)

They have already backed down on one thing so are clearly just here for the money and expecting you to fold. Stay firm and say no you paid what you were told. Tell them you will be quite happy to go to court over it.


----------



## Pinkvboots (4 December 2021)

Go get her then tell them you will give them a bill for your illegal change of terms plus the emotional distress they have caused and do not pay the £500.

Please let us know how you get on on and we need pictures 😀


----------



## saddlesore (8 December 2021)

Any update OP? Hopefully a positive one 🤞


----------



## Luthianblue (14 December 2021)

Moved her to her new yard! 
She's in quarantine but sooo much happier. She's got mudfever, mites, and needs weight on her, but we'll get her sorted. 
Was an absolute battle but got her!


----------



## Mrs. Jingle (14 December 2021)

Well done and I wish you many happy years with her! Looking forward to pics too! 😊


----------



## Amymay (14 December 2021)

Luthianblue said:



			Moved her to her new yard!
She's in quarantine but sooo much happier. She's got mudfever, mites, and needs weight on her, but we'll get her sorted.
Was an absolute battle but got her!
		
Click to expand...

Well done you. And many thanks for updating.


----------



## Pearlsasinger (14 December 2021)

Well done and thank you for updating.  All we need now is the pictures.


----------



## Red-1 (14 December 2021)

Congratulations on your new purchase!


----------



## Hepsibah (14 December 2021)

Happy new horse day! Pictures please.


----------



## Luthianblue (14 December 2021)

First time in the pen


----------



## Equi (14 December 2021)

Oooooo what a purchase. Very nice.


----------



## Velcrobum (14 December 2021)

How did you manage to get her off the yard???


----------



## Red-1 (14 December 2021)

Beautiful!


----------



## Luthianblue (14 December 2021)

Velcrobum said:



			How did you manage to get her off the yard???
		
Click to expand...

Got a receipt of sale, no passport though, getting that replaced. Then new livery picked her up


----------



## Amymay (14 December 2021)

She’s fabulous!


----------



## ycbm (14 December 2021)

Oh she's super! 
.


----------



## Luthianblue (14 December 2021)

Her temperament is amazing, totally let my heart rule my head. 
Thanks again seriously I would never have thought to call bhs


----------



## ycbm (14 December 2021)

3k?  No wonder they tried to get more out of you,  she's a bargain! 
.


----------



## Pearlsasinger (14 December 2021)

For some reason, I can't see the photo.


----------



## ester (14 December 2021)

me neither

What a relief though OP and new livery sounds fab if they also picked her up


----------



## ycbm (14 December 2021)

I think it has been deleted.  
.


----------



## Pearlsasinger (14 December 2021)

ycbm said:



			I think it has been deleted. 
.
		
Click to expand...


That would explain it. I wonder why, as all the comments were favourable.


----------



## ycbm (14 December 2021)

Pearlsacarolsinger said:



			That would explain it. I wonder why, as all the comments were favourable.
		
Click to expand...

Me too, raises any number of questions .....
.


----------



## Mrs. Jingle (14 December 2021)

ycbm said:



			Me too, raises any number of questions .....
.
		
Click to expand...

On no! Surely not?😲🤔


----------



## PaulineW (24 January 2022)

What happened about this? The OP still comes onto the forum. 🤔


----------

