# Trot or canter into fences?



## {97702} (2 February 2018)

At what point are you ready to canter into show jumping fences when schooling? I know its a basic question but you know me, I never mind sounding a total numpty.... 

Obviously I can see the reasons for approaching in trot - gives the horse time to look at the fence, more controlled, easier to keep the horse straight etc. But I hate it and much prefer jumping in canter.

After his schooling sessions with pro-eventer Jensen is great jumping - he locks onto the fence, never hesitates and enjoys himself hugely. So am I OK to jump him in canter when schooling?  
So many instructors have told me to always approach in trot I feel guilty cantering!


----------



## NinjaPony (2 February 2018)

I'm rubbish at jumping but when I feel bad about not jumping my former HOYS WH and decide to have a go for his sake, I always go out of canter!! Hate jumping out of trot, you are much more likely to get thrown out of balance, get big jump. Really a jump is just an elevated canter stride anyway!With less 'point and shoot' horses than my own, I have been known to trot a certain way, then ask for canter quite close to the jump so I can keep the canter balanced. But in general, I think it's easier to jump out of canter once you are competent in the canter-and neckstraps can be a life saver.


----------



## be positive (2 February 2018)

As long as you have control of the canter I would be working on jumping from that, I usually do a lot of gridwork where we approach in trot and canter through the line so the rider and horse gets a really good feel for striding and distance, I don't do an awful lot of individual fences before getting them out competing/ CR as long as they are confident with fillers and will jump out of trot or canter a simple course should be easy enough to negotiate and will be a good step forward. 

Once they have the basics in place I like to work on stride patterns , distances and turns almost all in a decent canter, at the end of the day they need to be in a strong canter to jump xc and too much time jumping out of trot can have a negative impact on both rider and horse, it may be you need to try and stick with the same instructor who will give you more continuity, I would normally keep to trot if I didn't know the rider and build up to canter work once I had more idea of their ability.


----------



## {97702} (2 February 2018)

Ah sorry I meant instructors over many years rather than instructors with current horse Be Positive  

Thank you that is really helpful, I will try and book some more grid work sessions as I know they are beneficial but are obviously impossible to do on my own!  Jensen's canter is still a bit of a work in progress (although massively improved on how it was) so I think canter work for jumping will be helpful for him


----------



## iknowmyvalue (2 February 2018)

Trot is useful for horses that tend to rush and throw themselves flat over the fence in canter, because from trot they actually have to sit back and use themselves properly, especially if you're jumping a bigger fence. Like you, I really hate the feeling jumping from trot, but I do see the benefits. I'm also a great fan of only cantering a few strides out on a horse that rushes or has a tendency to get unbalanced and flat in the canter. 

I'm always surprised how big horses can jump out of trot when they're actually using themselves properly! I've jumped up to 1m from trot, albeit unintentionally! Also for eventing it's always useful to be able to jump out of trot, because you never know what's going to happen out on the XC course!


----------



## ycbm (2 February 2018)

I hate trotting into fences and it isn't something you would normally want the horse to do when it's more experienced, so I avoid it whenever possible !

I think the potential benefits to the horse are outweighed by the fact that from trot there is no easy way for it to bring both hind legs under together to take off from, so it can all feel very ungainly.


----------



## AFB (2 February 2018)

ycbm said:



			I hate trotting into fences and it isn't something you would normally want the horse to do when it's more experienced, so I avoid it whenever possible !

I think the potential benefits to the horse are outweighed by the fact that from trot there is no easy way for it to bring both hind legs under together to take off from, so it can all feel very ungainly.
		
Click to expand...

This. I find it such an uncomfortable motion I avoid.


----------



## milliepops (2 February 2018)

iknowmyvalue said:



			Trot is useful for horses that tend to rush and throw themselves flat over the fence in canter, because from trot they actually have to sit back and use themselves properly, especially if you're jumping a bigger fence. Like you, I really hate the feeling jumping from trot, but I do see the benefits. I'm also a great fan of only cantering a few strides out on a horse that rushes or has a tendency to get unbalanced and flat in the canter. 

I'm always surprised how big horses can jump out of trot when they're actually using themselves properly! I've jumped up to 1m from trot, albeit unintentionally! Also for eventing it's always useful to be able to jump out of trot, because you never know what's going to happen out on the XC course!
		
Click to expand...

Agreed, I used to train with Matt Ryan when I was eventing and because both me and Millie used to love to go on long ones, we were always made to jump in trot to begin with so we would get a bit closer to the fence and she would make a better shape. You can't really miss a stride coming from trot though it is a bit alarming to trot down to a big fence and trust the horse to sort itself out :eek3:

I tend to approach grids in trot for that reason, it got us into the right spot rather than starting with a yee-haa moment


----------



## {97702} (2 February 2018)

I do recall Lucinda Green at a clinic making us all jump XC fences out of walk - that was scary


----------



## JustMe22 (2 February 2018)

Lévrier;13717696 said:
			
		


			I do recall Lucinda Green at a clinic making us all jump XC fences out of walk - that was scary 

Click to expand...

 She does this at almost all her clinics apparently!

On to the original question though - trotting with a placing pole is useful in the sense that it helps the horse gain confidence by always placing them at the right spot and helping them to get close to the fence.

But, I can't see any reason whatsoever for you to feel guilty for canrering fences? That is how he would jump in any sort of show situation and its far from unnatural for horses. So go ahead and jump in canter! As long as you have control of the canter I don't see why you wouldn't


----------



## be positive (2 February 2018)

iknowmyvalue said:



			Trot is useful for horses that tend to rush and throw themselves flat over the fence in canter, because from trot they actually have to sit back and use themselves properly, especially if you're jumping a bigger fence. Like you, I really hate the feeling jumping from trot, but I do see the benefits. I'm also a great fan of only cantering a few strides out on a horse that rushes or has a tendency to get unbalanced and flat in the canter. 

I'm always surprised how big horses can jump out of trot when they're actually using themselves properly! I've jumped up to 1m from trot, albeit unintentionally! Also for eventing it's always useful to be able to jump out of trot, because you never know what's going to happen out on the XC course!
		
Click to expand...

Trotting obviously has it's place but they have to learn to jump out of canter eventually, I am not keen on allowing a horse to canter the last few strides as it can encourage them to rush or flatten as there is no time to adjust the canter they set off in, again it has it's place but is something I try and avoid if at all possible, I prefer to have a decent enough canter that they maintain it all the way to the fence with as little input from the rider as possible. 

Every horse and rider combination is different and training needs to be adapted to suit each partnership, I use a variety of techniques all aimed at getting them working as a combination, what works for one is not going to work for others although every horse should be capable and willing to jump from walk, trot or canter even if the rider makes a bit of an error they should want to jump what is in front ofthem and not be thinking of stopping or running out if the homework has been done properly.


----------



## Goldenstar (2 February 2018)

Lévrier;13717696 said:
			
		


			I do recall Lucinda Green at a clinic making us all jump XC fences out of walk - that was scary 

Click to expand...

Jumping from walk is a great way of testing your position it gives you taste of what happens to your position when things go wrong which is why trainers often like you to jump from trot ,the horses get closer to small fence jumping from trot and that tests the rider more .
I expect horses to jump from walk trot and canter.
I would not like to hunt a horse that I could turn off a road in trot and jump.
There&#8217;s no reason not to jump in canter it&#8217;s just that jumping from trot and walk plays a role in training .


----------



## Mule (2 February 2018)

I like to jump from sitting trot if I'm expecting trouble  Horse doesn't approve, mabey because it's harder for him to cause trouble.  Otherwise I canter him, unless he's rushing.


----------



## Ambers Echo (2 February 2018)

mule said:



			I like to jump from sitting trot if I'm expecting trouble  Horse doesn't approve, mabey because it's harder for him to cause trouble.
		
Click to expand...

Amber is more than capable of causing trouble from trot LOL. That's a 1 metre oxer she's ballooning over. Trotting was meant to calm her down!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IM9KPlhLxM


----------



## ILuvCowparsely (2 February 2018)

Lévrier;13717618 said:
			
		


			At what point are you ready to canter into show jumping fences when schooling? I know it&#8217;s a basic question but you know me, I never mind sounding a total numpty.... 

Obviously I can see the reasons for approaching in trot - gives the horse time to look at the fence, more controlled, easier to keep the horse straight etc. But I hate it and much prefer jumping in canter.

After his schooling sessions with pro-eventer Jensen is great jumping - he locks onto the fence, never hesitates and enjoys himself hugely. So am I OK to jump him in canter when schooling?  
So many instructors have told me to always approach in trot I feel guilty cantering!
		
Click to expand...

Well a lot is down to the horse and how it approaches the fence, with my mare who was taught to zoom round at too early age, she rushes the fence and then knocks one down sometimes, so many times we have to bring her back to trot so she pushes from the back end as she tends to haul herself over.


When riding I turn a circle if she is rushing (well with last mare).   With clients I do the same, teach them to come in steadily and balanced and in control and if the horse starts to speed up or rush I tell them to circle away and come again, or I put a trotting pole in front.


----------



## Mule (2 February 2018)

Ambers Echo said:



			Amber is more than capable of causing trouble from trot LOL. That's a 1 metre oxer she's ballooning over. Trotting was meant to calm her down!!
Dr
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IM9KPlhLxM

Click to expand...

She's keen


----------



## Ambers Echo (2 February 2018)

mule said:



			She's keen 

Click to expand...

VERY!!!!


----------



## {97702} (2 February 2018)

Ambers Echo said:



			Amber is more than capable of causing trouble from trot LOL. That's a 1 metre oxer she's ballooning over. Trotting was meant to calm her down!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IM9KPlhLxM

Click to expand...

Thats reassuring - we have the same jump wings and have jumped that height, I thought it was about 85cm


----------



## Ambers Echo (2 February 2018)

My waist height is 90 and this was well above my waist. So def bigger than 85. 
Incidentally I should add that isn't me riding. I am not that brave. She was jumping huge over 80cm fences so the idea was to ride her into something bigger to encourage her to back off a bit - have  a little respect...


----------



## {97702} (2 February 2018)

Ooooo I am excited now   Jensen has scope   I thought it felt pretty cool over the oxer.... yay!!!


----------



## DabDab (3 February 2018)

Those wings are usually 3'6", so 1.05mish 

To the original question - I hate jumping from trot as get very disconcerted when there is no stride for me to see, but trotting into grids is a good exercise. 

Like be positive, I'm not keen on sticking in trot too long and particularly not for courses - horses can get quite backward thinking and struggle to get into that nice consistent rhythm feeling when they're being brought back to trot constantly between fences (obviously for a very onward bound horse this may be desirable for a short period). But generally speaking, get the good course jumping canter right and the actual getting over the fence bit will naturally follow


----------



## {97702} (3 February 2018)

I'm going to the yard with a tape measure tomorrow


----------



## {97702} (4 February 2018)

And the measure tape said......the grid we jumped was 95cm!!!!  No wonder he felt AMAZING over the oxers   

Its great what youll jump when your trainer tells you to isnt it


----------



## boblet (4 February 2018)

I like trotting and popping a hunt jump. It's easier for your horse to fiddle and gives to time to sort the landing gear out. You get a far better rhythm jumping a course from canter. Grids are great to start from trot, or just to a ground pole as it places you well for the grid of fences.


----------



## ycbm (4 February 2018)

Lévrier;13718595 said:
			
		


			And the measure tape said......the grid we jumped was 95cm!!!!  No wonder he felt AMAZING over the oxers   

Its great what youll jump when your trainer tells you to isnt it 

Click to expand...

Yay!  Two foot thirteen!   Much easier to jump than three foot one   I can feel your smile from here.


----------



## MagicMelon (8 February 2018)

Lévrier;13717650 said:
			
		


			Ah sorry I meant instructors over many years rather than instructors with current horse Be Positive  

Thank you that is really helpful, I will try and book some more grid work sessions as I know they are beneficial but are obviously impossible to do on my own!  Jensen's canter is still a bit of a work in progress (although massively improved on how it was) so I think canter work for jumping will be helpful for him
		
Click to expand...

Not impossible to do gridwork on your own, I do it sometimes on my own - you just have to get on and off a few times! I introduce cantering jumping by doing gridwork, first ever exercise would likely be trot over a cross pole with one (shortish since you came in in trot) canter stride in between to another one. So he naturally does a stride of canter in between, then make it 2 strides in between etc.


----------



## Sophire (8 February 2018)

I also have been to a Lucinda clinic and had to jump XC from walk! It made sense when she explained it.
I think if your horse is comfortable to jump in canter then do so.


----------



## PaddyMonty (8 February 2018)

Lévrier;13717618 said:
			
		


			At what point are you ready to canter into show jumping fences when schooling?
		
Click to expand...

When I first start teaching a horse to jump. Canter is much easier for the horse so when introducing jumping I just get the horse working over a set of canter poles then pop a smallish (50cm) straight bar fence at the end.
easy for the horse as poles control takeoff. 
Once horse has the idea of jumping I then introduce trot getting the horse deeper to the fence so it has to come up more from the shoulder and push more from the quarters. Also introduce cross poles at this stage as again encourages the horse to be neater in front.
Once that's sorted I start jumping from walk.
Never understood the idea of introducing a young horse to jumping using trot to X pole. Both make it more difficult for the horse than it needs to be.
Novice riders are introduce to jumping form trot over x poles as the perception for the rider is they are more in control from trot and the x pole is lower despite the extra height the horse actually has to jump to get its width through the X


----------



## Counterpoint (14 February 2018)

A jump is actually a modified canter stride so in general its easier for the horse than trot. Few show jumpers jump from trot. 
Personally with babies I trot in but allow them to break to canter a couple of strides out. For eventing it is very useful for a horse to be able to jump from trot as they may break on a hill etc. 

But so long as the horse can canter I'd canter in, but would probably come back to trot between every fence to rebalance/keep the canter short, then pop into canter a few strides out, jump the fence and return to trot.


----------



## Elizabethandtia1 (17 February 2019)

I've seen a very nice hkrse for sale! But in jumping it gies into trite to change its mead for a few strides. Now can this be solved or is it something that once in the habit it's never to be solved? I dont know if it's the rider, but she looks like she loses focus a little bit that's why this hirse cant change its rein easily?


----------



## be positive (17 February 2019)

Elizabethandtia1 said:



			I've seen a very nice hkrse for sale! But in jumping it gies into trite to change its mead for a few strides. Now can this be solved or is it something that once in the habit it's never to be solved? I dont know if it's the rider, but she looks like she loses focus a little bit that's why this hirse cant change its rein easily?
		
Click to expand...

Translation to what I am guessing you mean, horse comes back to trot for a few strides to change leg when jumping rather than doing a flying change, can this be improved with correct work? answer probably yes depending on it's age and how established it is but to my mind if the horse can do the job required if at times you need to do a quick transition to rebalance it is not going to make much difference unless you are competing at top level, most horses get away with sometimes approaching on the wrong lead when competing and will often pop in a change anyway. 

If it is in a sales video the rider may be aware of the video running and be trying to get everything right so being a bit cautious about asking a green horse to change and missing, I would be more interested in how the horse jumps, whether it is enjoying the job and see how it rides when you go and try than overthinking on a minor issue that may not even be one.


----------



## sportsmansB (18 February 2019)

We jump the event horses out of trot in training (not all the time, but sometimes) 
It can help if they start to jump to one side a bit from canter, if they rush, or whatever. Most times with a placing pole if the fences are a bit bigger. 
Its also useful to know that your horse can feel confident jumping from trot if you have an issue cross country and have to trot into something...


----------



## Keith_Beef (18 March 2019)

I've been on a horse in a jump class, and while everybody else was approaching in trot I was told to approach in canter otherwise my horse wouldn't have to forward speed to get over it...

This Sunday just gone, another student was on the same horse, different instructor, and he didn't get the same advice. The horse messed up his approach and stepped on the placing pole which rolled under his hoof; he almost stumbled, though not quite, and then almost stood dead still before half-heartedly jumping over the 30cm obstacle... The rider kept his balance, though, and pulled up the horse to a stop before reaching the perimeter (rider's balance on approach and landing and then stopping were the objectives of the exercise).

I've been on horses who would have done that jump easily out of walk or trot, this particular horse absolutely has to approach at a canter, otherwise he is useless (or seems it... maybe a better rider could get more out of him).


----------



## SpringArising (18 March 2019)

Horses should be trained to jump from trot. And from weird angles. How else are you going to save yourself in a crappy moment if you've only ever cantered in on a perfect line?!


----------



## Goldenstar (18 March 2019)

Sophire said:



			I also have been to a Lucinda clinic and had to jump XC from walk! It made sense when she explained it.
I think if your horse is comfortable to jump in canter then do so.
		
Click to expand...

LG gets you jumping from walk as it exaggerates the jump so you can develop your position and reactions itâ€™s a very beneficial exercise for riders .
I jump my horses from walk and trot and canter all the horses I have will hunt at some point and turning and jumping a upright fence in mud from trot with very little run up is something hunters need to understand and do .
For an event horse itâ€™s a good skill to have as well particularly when they are starting out .


----------



## Orangehorse (18 March 2019)

A horse can jump up to 4' I was told and I knew someone who produced hunters and they would only ever trot into a fence out hunting - obviously not massive hedge and ditch!

Useful to be able to jump out of trot, in case of need.


----------



## Keith_Beef (18 March 2019)

Orangehorse said:



			Useful to be able to jump out of trot, in case of need.
		
Click to expand...

I completely agree.

I'm not all that interested in competing, neither SJ or XC; the extra jumping classes that I do are so that when we're trotting along a forest path and find a tree trunk across it, we can jump over it. Being able to jump from a trot is not just "nice to have" for hacking, it's a "must have" skill.


----------

