# Oli Townend....horse falls



## ruby111 (3 September 2011)

Does anyone think its strange that he seems to have so many horse falls.Many of the other Pro riders rde just as many horses but dont seem to have as many falls.Do you think he should be on a watch list?Do you think any of the powers that be are worried about these falls.I feel that if any ordinairy rider were having these incidents that questions would be asked and presumably answered.Just curious as to what you all think.


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## LEC (3 September 2011)

I think Ruth Edge would have more falls than Ollie Townend in a year. Also you are only commenting about public ones that have happened at Badminton and Burghley. Not sure that constitutes as a lot of HF over the year?


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## millimoo (3 September 2011)

I'm with you Ruby111...
I've always thought he rides hard bordering reckless, and has been lucky a lot of the time. Some may say he's bold and fearless.
I admit I don't event, but don't find him comfortable viewing. However I respect he has ability - he wouldn't have achieved what he has, and I'm sure hes a lovely chap, and this is just my personal opinion.

Tin hat rammed on... And lying low in the very bottom of a trench


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## millimoo (3 September 2011)

I'm happy for people to correct me.... It may be my lack of technical understanding on my part. Waving White flag


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## YorkshireLady (3 September 2011)

that is his 4th HF of the season

Ruth Edge has had  1


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## jenz87 (3 September 2011)

I know what i think about him after personal experience of meeting him and seeing behind the scenes. But im not allowed to share dont feel right despite what i think!!!


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## vinnigan (3 September 2011)

Totally agree, his round at burghley was awful to watch, He does appear to have fallen/ been eliminated at a few major events recently 
but I've never really liked him since express eventing when he was the only one to go for it on the xc after Mary kings horse had to be shot...


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## Katie_B (3 September 2011)

vinnigan said:



			Totally agree, his round at burghley was awful to watch, He does appear to have fallen/ been eliminated at a few major events recently 
but I've never really liked him since express eventing when he was the only one to go for it on the xc after Mary kings horse had to be shot...
		
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Sorry to nit pick..but he rode before Mary fell and rode a fantastic round.

Can't comment on why he is falling but agree that the the figures are slightly alarming. Maybe he is just too ambitious and pushing a little too much? However I doubt that he is a happy la today after his second horse refused to go down the leaf pit, very frustrating.


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## ruby111 (3 September 2011)

I was really just wondering what if anything the procedure is for dealing with something like this Surley the officials are noticing and watching this rider.Or are they...And if they are what is the official way of dealing with it.


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## Alec Swan (3 September 2011)

He also retired a horse today,  because it was napping.  I suspect that there are those horses which he can cope with,  and those that he can't.  If a basic problem,  such as napping,  reveals itself at a premier event,  then there is something very wrong.

I know one thing;  he wouldn't be riding a horse of mine.

Alec.


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## B-B (3 September 2011)

He comes across as a win at any cost type of rider and has not made a good impression in all corners of the sport.

Maybe this is down to his age and being open about his desire to win...


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## superpony (3 September 2011)

Alec Swan said:



			He also retired a horse today,  because it was napping.  I suspect that there are those horses which he can cope with,  and those that he can't.  If a basic problem,  such as napping,  reveals itself at a premier event,  then there is something very wrong.

I know one thing;  he wouldn't be riding a horse of mine.

Alec.
		
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I believe (although stand to be corrected) that the horse came to him with this problem.

I have met him and yes he is ambitious but he is not as bad as people think, I think alot of people are unfair on him and as others have said he has had HF's at high profile events so people notice it more.


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## YorkshireLady (3 September 2011)

I believe that the horse napped with previous rider too?


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## Chloe..x (3 September 2011)

Imperial Master has a pretty solid record XC under OT, it was the horses first 4* and he has had the ride since 2008 after he took over from Kitty King.

The horse has two stops recently at Chatsworth and other than that there are rare occasions where he hasn't completed double clears.


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## SusieT (3 September 2011)

Ollies fall today and Mary's fall at the euros were pretty much caused by the same thing, no stride, and horses that were a bit too keen to take a long one when they shouldn't have. Ollie's horse should have put another one in, he maybe should have sat on it a tiny bit longer, but it was not by any means a massively obvious error.


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## oldvic (3 September 2011)

Alec Swan said:



			He also retired a horse today,  because it was napping.  I suspect that there are those horses which he can cope with,  and those that he can't.  If a basic problem,  such as napping,  reveals itself at a premier event,  then there is something very wrong.

I know one thing;  he wouldn't be riding a horse of mine.

Alec.
		
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The horse went to him because it would nap with his previous rider even at novice/intermediate level. He has days where he is a machine and days where he doesn't want to play. That's not Oli's fault - IM now has more good days than bad.
Yes, he rides competitively but it is a sport and the point is to do as well as you can. He was riding positively today but he needed to as the horse was being a little green. He picked up a stride too early where he fell - it happens.


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## Supertrooper (3 September 2011)

Vinnigan - to be fair to oli at express eventing, he'd already done his round before Mary went and he helped push the horse ambulance out of the arena when it got stuck!


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## LizzyandToddy (3 September 2011)

Alec Swan said:



			He also retired a horse today,  because it was napping.  I suspect that there are those horses which he can cope with,  and those that he can't.  If a basic problem,  such as napping,  reveals itself at a premier event,  then there is something very wrong.
		
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The horse in question is notoriously an arse though, I should think he is the only one that will take it on. It removed most of his fathers teeth and broke his grooms leg to comment on recent actions. He even re-employed his prior groom just to try and keep it calm at burghley.

Ollie seems to have a particular type of horse, as do many of us, it just seems to be the type that seems rather likely to leave a leg (not perhaps the best type for xc). He has been successful can't take that away from him, but he doesn't seem popular amoungst fellow riders or spectators anymore.

I was at the fence earlier today when he fell, and he did not ride brilliantly between the fence, however the horse was tired after the triple bounce up the steps and over the fence before and simply couldn't athletically make it. The horse also had a very hairy cat leap off the leaf pit, which perhaps didn't help his round when he came to get more steps?

I'm not making excuses, I don't really like the man much myself, but I think its a little harsh when we perhaps don't know that much about the situation or the full story.


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## B-B (3 September 2011)

Thanks, its always good to be better informed


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## millimoo (3 September 2011)

I thought I might get a torrent of abuse from my first post. Glad it's not just me...
I respect he may have a problematic horse, however there are other riders who go for it who manage to keep the rhythm and assist a more novicy horse - and pull up if it's starts falling apart.
I hope this thread is not seen as Ollie bashing, for me and my family we genuinely hold our breath when hes steaming round, and I'm reassured it's not just us.


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## Noodlejaffa (3 September 2011)

Sorry, but it really is tiresome that people insist on going Oli-bashing. He's one of the nicest people to work with and I would have no hesitation at sending any of my horses to him.


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## popsdosh (3 September 2011)

I have had a horse with Oli in the past and could not fault his care and honesty about the horse.He also goes out of his way to talk when I see him eventing which a lot of other riders dont. Lots of people dont like his style because he tells it as it is and its not what they want to hear.Oli is perfectly aware of what people think of him but he is ambitious and an achiever but us Brits dont seem to like those qualities.Also he has some very ambitious and demanding owners who want to win at any cost!
I feel at the moment he is loosing it a bit as he is spreading himself a bit thin with everything else he is trying to do, that maybe why he is losing the plot a bit.


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## LBertie Wooster (3 September 2011)

Noodlejaffa said:



			Sorry, but it really is tiresome that people insist on going Oli-bashing. He's one of the nicest people to work with and I would have no hesitation at sending any of my horses to him.
		
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popsdosh said:



			I have had a horse with Oli in the past and could not fault his care and honesty about the horse.He also goes out of his way to talk when I see him eventing which a lot of other riders dont. Lots of people dont like his style because he tells it as it is and its not what they want to hear.Oli is perfectly aware of what people think of him but he is ambitious and an achiever but us Brits dont seem to like those qualities.Also he has some very ambitious and demanding owners who want to win at any cost!
I feel at the moment he is loosing it a bit as he is spreading himself a bit thin with everything else he is trying to do, that maybe why he is losing the plot a bit.
		
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all of the above. I havent had a horse with Oli but I would be more than happy to send a horse to him and more than likely be first choice if it was problimatic. Watched his burghley round a couple of mins ago and I couldn't see anything wrong with it. HF's happen what ever level your at and no matter how good you are. I didn't see anyone critising Mary when she had her fall at the Euros.  i'm deffinatly with noodlejaffa about it being really tiresome how many people insist on Oli bashing. And if you dont like watching him ride, its quite simple you dont bl()()dy watch it and if you do its your own personal issue and don't have to go moaning over forums. 
If Oli tells it straight no faffing even more reason for me , if had, to send a horse to him. 

Sorry if i've come across 'gobby' and 'uptight' but im bored of this Oli bashing after every 4****. Give the guy some credit!


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## Kiribati_uk (3 September 2011)

And here we go again....OLI BASHING!!!
Have you not seen videos of Pippa Funnell back in the day?? She even adnits herself that its cringeworthy!! 
And for the record I would love to be as BAD a rider as oliver Townend!!!!


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## Holidays_are_coming (3 September 2011)

I also just watched his round, and could not see much wrond with it the horse/rider made a little mistake and those fences are too big to do that with. He has a very definative style which is his own and I wouldnt mind being able to ride anywhere near as well as him!!!


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## mon (3 September 2011)

Would you sit on a horse thet reared and boxed like Olis did, my youngster has been known to go up but not as bad as his did, I got off oli didn't!


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## lynds81 (3 September 2011)

Oli does ride hard, and he does ride fast, but he is not the only rider to ride like this and I can think of riders that make me more nervous to watch than he does. He rides to be very competitive and he rides quite a few horses that have had problems with other jockeys.

His fall today was IMO unfortunate - however, I think there are a lot of people that don't always see the same stride as their horse, I know for a fact it happens to me and it looked like a genuine mistake from horse and rider. His round up to that point looked fine to me.

Badminton, yes the horse was tired, but I don't see that fall as having been his fault either, the horse he was on then just didn't pick up enough.

Another thing to bear in mind when you look at his 4 HF's is that people do tend to have runs of bad luck with this sort of thing (whether that is because of their riding, confidence, or bad luck I don't know!), and also that he seems to compete more than many other professionals do, thus increasing his likelihood of falls anyway...


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## LBertie Wooster (3 September 2011)

I also echo what lui23456 says about would give anything to be able to ride a fraction of how well he does.


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## Chloe..x (3 September 2011)

Ingrid Klimke springs to mind...


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## christine48 (3 September 2011)

The horse looked as if it was being pushed out of it's comfort zone in my opinion. I think it was lacking experience and probably not used to jumping at that speed either. He was a long way off of the fence he fell at too.


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## Loopypony (3 September 2011)

At the end of the day, none of you who are saying bad about Oliver are riding at the level he is. None of you have the experience that he does and none of you know the exact reasons/circumstances for each HF.

I admire Oliver, after each HF he has got back up again, brushed himself off and carried on with another day. He hasn't once blamed the horse for any of the falls and he has a very good team behind him helping. Granted, he does think quite highly of himself, he does like to win etc but who doesn't?! He's had success and has owners of his horses who want in on that success meaning he has quite a lot of pressure put upon him to carry on performing well. 

Don't judge until you've walked a mile in the others shoes and all that.....


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## Alec Swan (3 September 2011)

Noodlejaffa said:



			Sorry, but it really is tiresome that people insist on going Oli-bashing.......
		
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I'm sure that it is,  and whilst you may choose to disbelieve me,  _bashing_ wasn't my intention. 

I will none-the-less,  stand by my argument that a known napping horse has no business at such an event.  I accept that he qualified,  but that alters nothing.  If I owned that horse,  and despite his current riders abilities,  I would probably look elsewhere,  for a new rider.

Alec.


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## gabanna (3 September 2011)

Loopypony said:



			At the end of the day, none of you who are saying bad about Oliver are riding at the level he is. None of you have the experience that he does and none of you know the exact reasons/circumstances for each HF.

I admire Oliver, after each HF he has got back up again, brushed himself off and carried on with another day. He hasn't once blamed the horse for any of the falls and he has a very good team behind him helping. Granted, he does think quite highly of himself, he does like to win etc but who doesn't?! He's had success and has owners of his horses who want in on that success meaning he has quite a lot of pressure put upon him to carry on performing well. 

Don't judge until you've walked a mile in the others shoes and all that.....
		
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exactly this.


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## oldvic (3 September 2011)

Alec Swan said:



			I'm sure that it is,  and whilst you may choose to disbelieve me,  _bashing_ wasn't my intention. 

I will none-the-less,  stand by my argument that a known napping horse has no business at such an event.  I accept that he qualified,  but that alters nothing.  If I owned that horse,  and despite his current riders abilities,  I would probably look elsewhere,  for a new rider.

Alec.
		
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I don't understand why you are blaming Oli for IM napping when he was sent to him BECAUSE he naps very badly. He is a horse with a huge amount of talent on his going days which is why anyone has bothered with him.


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## Alec Swan (3 September 2011)

Loopypony said:



			At the end of the day, none of you who are saying bad about Oliver are riding at the level he is. None of you have the experience that he does and none of you know the exact reasons/circumstances for each HF.......

.......Don't judge until you've walked a mile in the others shoes and all that.....
		
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I'm sorry,  but I can't agree with that.  Are those who judge dressage riders any less of a judge because they don't ride to the standard of those who they judge?   Are those who employ,  and therefore judge the F1 drivers any less,  because they can't drive at such a pace? Of course they aren't.

I may well be wrong,  but I suspect that OT could take a leaf out of the books of others,  Mark Todd,  William Fox-Pitt and Mary King being amongst them.  They make their mistakes,  but not _quite_ so many.

Alec.


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## Loopypony (3 September 2011)

Yes, but are you a BE official?? Are you a judge for the BE??


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## LBertie Wooster (3 September 2011)

Loopypony said:



			Yes, but are you a BE official?? Are you a judge for the BE??
		
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This and their comment before. 

AlecSwan, Oli's the only one who gets bashed for his mistakes.


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## dingle12 (3 September 2011)

Just watched his round and i thought he rode him positive the horse looked to be backing off at the start so Oli road him positive. Yet again its pick on Oli day and as someone above said has anyone riden at the level he does or seen how much work goes into having horses at that level?

Must say the round i didnt like watching and held my breath was Mary Kings however i think she is a fab rider but not today.


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## Alec Swan (3 September 2011)

Loopypony said:



			Yes, but are you a BE official?? Are you a judge for the BE??
		
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I'm neither,  but would you suggest that I'm not entitled to an opinion?

Alec.


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## Alec Swan (3 September 2011)

LBertie Wooster said:



			.......

AlecSwan, Oli's the only one who gets bashed for his mistakes.
		
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Not so.  Read the post from dingle12.

Alec.


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## LBertie Wooster (3 September 2011)

Alec Swan said:



			Not so.  Read the post from dingle12.

Alec.
		
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Yes, thats a post not a whole thread. Oli seems to get a whole thread dedicated to him. And mainly not good with the odd good.


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## Princecharming (3 September 2011)

I love Oliver Townend but I do admit to closing one eye sometimes when he's going round as he certainly can be a bit reckless lol. I think the sheer amount of times he has broken his collar bone proves this and he's probably first to admit that he's a bit on the wild side. 

I remember going to the champions tour when he was telling us all he had just bought Neo almost blind from France with no points or anything. I tell you what though its and incredibly small but impressive BE record that horse has... He was showjumping with Geoff Billington and Oliver has some serious talent!

Maybe he will calm down as he gets a bit older/wiser... Or more arthritic haha!!


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## A1JUMPJOCKEY (3 September 2011)

Last year it was blast Georgie Strang for having a fall this year it's Oli!! Horse falls happen all the time from your your local BE event to 4*, it is supposed to be the ultimate test for both horse and rider, if it was straight forward we would all be doing it. The crowd bashing always come out in force at major events where if you go to most BE events you get to see such riders as Oli perform amazing feet's of riding, getting both young and quirky horses around tracks that would struggle for others! Being involved in racing as well as eventing if your trying to win as surely that's the point in any sport!! You will have mishaps both Human and Equine! Tony McCoy would average 80-100 a season you could hardly say he is a bad rider!

I was taught a great bit of advice as a youngster if you have nothing constructive or nice to say, be quiet!


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## Baggybreeches (3 September 2011)

I have no feeling either way on Oli, but I don't think you are being fair at all, yes he rides hard, but he does so in a controlled way,which in my opinion is far preferable to the German rider Frank Ostholt, who tends to ride bordering on the reckless. Oli tends to have to nurse and cajole tricky horses round. And I am another one who wants to ride half as badly as him!
BTW I haven't seen much today but I thought Jeanette Brakewell and Primitive Pistol were copybook, that horse is a true 4* horse IMO, gallop and jump, gallop and jump!


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## DarkHorseB (3 September 2011)

Baggybreeches said:



			BTW I haven't seen much today but I thought Jeanette Brakewell and Primitive Pistol were copybook, that horse is a true 4* horse IMO, gallop and jump, gallop and jump!
		
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And Jeanette is a very talented Xc rider too! Great to see her have a talented partner again


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## Alec Swan (3 September 2011)

Off topic,  sort of;  I watched Lenamore finish.  Now that's what I call a grand horse,  and what would I give to breed a horse like that?

I enjoyed today,  and am already looking forward to next year.  Despite what others may believe,  nobody will be happier than I,  if OT wins in 2012. 

Alec.


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## Baggybreeches (3 September 2011)

I too adore Lenamore, I love the fact that he can be so naughty!


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## DarkHorseB (3 September 2011)

Baggybreeches said:



			I too adore Lenamore, I love the fact that he can be so naughty!
		
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He's also a "proper" old fashioned type of eventer ID * TB with complete attention to detail paid to the way he is got fit (none of this modern nonsense  )


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## NicoleS_007 (3 September 2011)

The only thing that keeps popping into my mind is that the horse seemed a bit lean, like ACM. I dont like nor dislike him as ovb I dont know him, he wasnt hanging around with the grey xc, rode forwards and postitive but I much prefered LF round whos was also fast and positive but the horse always looked full of running and ping.


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## lannerch (3 September 2011)

I am in awe of oli the fact he had that fall with the first horse then managed to pick himself up and go our and ride the 2nd fully confident!
I had a fall 2 days ago and yes I did manage to compete ( and only be100) however I was terrified ! Maybe Mary too if she was not as polished as usual to watch was also suffering all Be it very slight a loss in confidence after that crashing fall last week! And full credibility to her too for completing so well on her two. 
People certainly live to oli Bash !

He I'd driven focused in it to win it and very human in real life. I would love him to ride my horse!


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## yeeharider (3 September 2011)

NicoleS_007 said:



			The only thing that keeps popping into my mind is that the horse seemed a bit lean, like ACM. I dont like nor dislike him as ovb I dont know him, he wasnt hanging around with the grey xc, rode forwards and postitive but I much prefered LF round whos was also fast and positive but the horse always looked full of running and ping.
		
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I do judge BE and think he was guity of wreckless riding  Oh my!! to think that i can critcsise such as OT in public  but in my opinion he rode too fast at th skinny coming out of the dairy mound and paid the price


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## ajn1610 (3 September 2011)

I think he saw a ropey one, and it didn't come off. Yes he is riding hard but so is everyone at that level, you don't get to be competitive at 4* by playing safe. There were other rounds that looked rougher but came home safe. Equally there were others that put in beautiful polished makes it look easy performances. I think he's had a ****e run of luck recently, rewind a couple of seasons and he was winning everything, that's horses for you. Also I think it says a lot about him that he was on his feet and straight back to his horse, not every rider does that.


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## dominobrown (3 September 2011)

I just think he is having a  not very good run of 4* horses. Yes the horses are capable but some true quailty horses, such as Lenemore etc make it look and feel easy. No disrespect to any riders, but you will know yourself, its a lot easier to sit pretty and look stylish on a horse that finds it easy!


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## Maesfen (4 September 2011)

ajn1610 said:



			.. Also I think it says a lot about him that he was on his feet and straight back to his horse, not every rider does that.
		
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Well that makes a change then he usually walks away.


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## BEUnderTheInfluence (4 September 2011)

I don't think we can critique Olly when you look at how the vast majority of Germans ride (except perhaps M.Young with Sam who rides in this mesmerising rhythm).Yes they won all 3 spots and team title but thats the problem, people like Ingrid Klimke ride "on the edge" and take ridiculous chances with their horses, it either comes off and they win or they crash and burn in no uncertain terms like at WEG...

Olly was riding very well (and I'm no massive Olly fan) - up until the aproach to the fence in question where I think there was too much elbow waving causing unbalence and confusion in the horse, thought waves were probably to make it clear what he wanted but infact did the opposite...


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## mbequest (4 September 2011)

I've got huge respect for anyone brave/stupid enough to event at that level.... And besides Oli looks good in breeches ;-)


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## glamourpuss (4 September 2011)

I seriously do not get what all the Oli bashing is for. The bloke is fantastic jockey who has proven himself time and time again. He also appears to be an astute business man who has created a successful brand.

I'm amazed that some of you are saying you had to watch with one eye open because you thought he was reckless...really? 
Up until his fall his round just looked like he was riding very positively to me. It was hardly frightening stuff.

He saw an 'iffy' stride to that fence, that was all. At this height/level this late on the course that can be all it take to to cause a horse fall. 

Even on the course walk Captain Mark Philips talks about being half a stride out makes already big fences 'enormous' poor Oli just paid the price for that.


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## glamourpuss (4 September 2011)

Maesfen said:



			Well that makes a change then he usually walks away.
		
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Really? When has he done that? At Badminton I saw him stand and get his breath back whilst the officials led the horse round. I can't think of any other examples, care to share?


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## Kiribati_uk (4 September 2011)

Maesfen said:



			Well that makes a change then he usually walks away.
		
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Bang out of order!!!!!!
When has he done that, oh in kentucky when he was carted off in an ambulance!!!!!
I hate this Jockey bashing last year it was Georgie Strang and Master Monarch, do you think these riders go out to put the horse on the floor?
No its called a mistake, and at 4star level the margin for errors is very slim!!!
WFP last week was bloodly lucky But had Cool Mountain of fallen would he be being slated for being reckless/careless?? No because its WFP!!!
Bit of respect for these riders wouldn't go amiss, I take my hat to ANYONE who can get to 4star level!!!


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## ajn1610 (4 September 2011)

Maesfen said:



			Well that makes a change then he usually walks away.
		
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Well I don't know about any other incidences but in this case as you can see on the burghley tv clip his concern is straight away for the horse. Incidentally does anyone have any news on the horse falls yesterday, are they all OK?


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## Danny1234 (4 September 2011)

Kiribati_uk said:



			Bang out of order!!!!!!
When has he done that, oh in kentucky when he was carted off in an ambulance!!!!!
I hate this Jockey bashing last year it was Georgie Strang and Master Monarch, do you think these riders go out to put the horse on the floor?
No its called a mistake, and at 4star level the margin for errors is very slim!!!
[...]
		
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I'm not sure Oli would like to be compared to Georgie Strang, and I still think there was a reason why A. Hoy didn't want Master Monarch to be ridden anymore *two* years ago. Anyway, back to topic.


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## sleepingdragon10 (4 September 2011)

Oh this is funny. As soon as I saw that OT had had a fall I bloody knew that there'd be a thread about it

Since when has being competitive been a sin?
I absolutely agree with Kiribati_uk, other riders who make *mistakes* don't get half the flack OT does.

Jeez, give the man a break.


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## VGM (4 September 2011)

olis horse is currently in a local vets


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## ajn1610 (4 September 2011)

Thanks VGM, do you know how it's doing? Anyone know about of any of the others?


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## LBertie Wooster (4 September 2011)

mbequest said:



			I've got huge respect for anyone brave/stupid enough to event at that level.... And besides Oli looks good in breeches ;-)
		
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Kiribati_uk said:



			Bang out of order!!!!!!
When has he done that, oh in kentucky when he was carted off in an ambulance!!!!!
I hate this Jockey bashing last year it was Georgie Strang and Master Monarch, do you think these riders go out to put the horse on the floor?
No its called a mistake, and at 4star level the margin for errors is very slim!!!
WFP last week was bloodly lucky But had Cool Mountain of fallen would he be being slated for being reckless/careless?? No because its WFP!!!
Bit of respect for these riders wouldn't go amiss, I take my hat to ANYONE who can get to 4star level!!!
		
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ajn1610 said:



			Well I don't know about any other incidences but in this case as you can see on the burghley tv clip his concern is straight away for the horse. Incidentally does anyone have any news on the horse falls yesterday, are they all OK?
		
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i don't think anyone has the right to critcise him unless they train him, or Yogi/ team GBR... or unless your at 4*??????
I've never seen him get up and walk away from the horse without checking it over. I do it once i've checked the horse over. he was straight over to the horse yesterday. no faffing, got up, straight to the horse. The horse was his first concern. totally uncalled for saying that maesfen. with ajn1610 on that topic.
Oli's done bloomin well to get to where he is. more work than some people could be bothered to put in. every time something happens with him and a horse at 4* theres always a 'oli bashing' thread. give him a break!!!! 

mbequest, i'm with you on the breeches


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## A1JUMPJOCKEY (4 September 2011)

DANNY 1234!!!!

Id get your facts right before you try to guess at things, Ben was sent to Georgie as the Attwoods and Richard Constant who own him have been family friends of the Strangs for years, they have 2 others with Georgie at the moment as well. Ben left Andrew as he didnt want to ride him not that the horse shouldnt be ridden!!! At 19 last season he gave Georgie the chance of a life time to compete at the big 3 and 4* events finishing 9th at Bramham, no body appreciates the amazing chance she had to ride such a legend as ben more than Georgie does!!!! He is regulary ridden by his owners now and is having the time of his life doing the Express Eventing, he had some great times hunting last year and at the age of 20 he his still acting like a 3yr old!!!!!!!! Trying to pinch him to whip in on!


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## Roasted Chestnuts (4 September 2011)

Where are you all watching this????

Im trying to find what your talking abou and cant.

I like Oli as a rider and a horseman, I honestly dont know why he gets stick


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## LBertie Wooster (4 September 2011)

NiknKia, if you go on Burghley HT website, go on BHT tv you can find thre round on there.


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## Maesfen (4 September 2011)

glamourpuss said:



			Really? When has he done that? At Badminton I saw him stand and get his breath back whilst the officials led the horse round. I can't think of any other examples, care to share?
		
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The first time I actually saw him or even noticed him was on TV at Burghley some years ago when he fell at the fence coming out of the last lake crossing (by the bridge); horse was tired and fell, he just got up to walk away without a second glance and the cameras stayed on him.  Even allowing for youth, enthusiasm, his disappointment and his desire to win, there was actually no need for him to be like that, it was crude and nasty.  There are a lot of other stories personally known about him that would make your hair curl but they're not for public consumption.

However, I will be fair to him and say when he was competing locally, he couldn't have been more pleasant or polite to any stewards, can't say fairer than that.


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## Nic86 (4 September 2011)

I've always admired Oli as a rider he's worked hard to get where he is and hasn't had it easy! He's a very talented rider and to get somewhere with that talent you have to have the nerve to go with it! Those who don't have it will never be happy with those who do. I thought he rode a very good round on an obisously green horse. I also felt that the horses round got a lot better as he went rounf and got much smoother. The fall was very unfortunate but these things happen and every horse has to do their 1st 4* not all of them will have a good time. 

If I had half of Oli's talent and nerve I would be very happy


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## M_G (4 September 2011)

I wondered when a rider bashing thread would rear it's head... Until I have ridden a 4* event I will continue to stand in awe of the bravery and skill of both horse and rider... I also appreciate we all have off days at work and no one is perfect


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## Tannis (4 September 2011)

My daughter aspires to compete at 4* and after reading this, I've just given her a piece of motherly advice - don't ride for yourself, don't ride for your horses, don't ride for your owners.  Ride so that you keep the H&H forum members happy.  

Oh, and if your horse starts to show its inexperience and backs off, don't kick on to avoid a rotational fall because otherwise that will be seen as riding recklessly.


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## Gamebird (4 September 2011)

Tannis said:



			My daughter aspires to compete at 4* and after reading this, I've just given her a piece of motherly advice - don't ride for yourself, don't ride for your horses, don't ride for your owners.  Ride so that you keep the H&H forum members happy.  

Oh, and if your horse starts to show its inexperience and backs off, don't kick on to avoid a rotational fall because otherwise that will be seen as riding recklessly.
		
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Brilliant. Love it!


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## stencilface (4 September 2011)

I get bored of Oli bashing (or anyone bashing threads) as although I'm not exactly a groupie, he doesn't seem that bad either as a rider, or a person.

But then I also get bored of people saying you can't comment because you've never competed at that level. WTF?!  If you went by that, you wouldn't be able to criticise anybody, anyone on here been the prime minister, yet people always seem to be free to criticise them 

If no one on internet forums had no opinions, we'd all sit here discussing how many cups of tea we've drunk today, now wouldn't that be boring


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## Missadelaide (4 September 2011)

I have no personal dealing with OT and have nothing against him personally.

However, I do agree with many of you on here that his riding is reckless, sometimes dangerous and I would never send a horse of mine to him.

I have alot of respect for the man, he has done very well to get where he is now. Personally speaking, I do not like his style of riding - Mary King is a legend as is Andrew Nicholson and Lucinda Fredericks to name a few. I prefer riders who are quietly supportive to their horses rather than ones who take unnecessary risks.

I cannot comment on the issue of him walking away or not as I have not witnessed it but I do feel it is very unhorseman like to walk away from your steed, regardless of the situation.

Everybody is entitled to their opinion and neither is right or wrong.


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## A1JUMPJOCKEY (4 September 2011)

If no one on internet forums had no opinions, we'd all sit here discussing how many cups of tea we've drunk today, now wouldn't that be boring [/QUOTE]

Might be boring but at least it would be factual!!!!!


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## stencilface (4 September 2011)

A1JUMPJOCKEY said:



			If no one on internet forums had no opinions, we'd all sit here discussing how many cups of tea we've drunk today, now wouldn't that be boring 

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Might be boring but at least it would be factual!!!!![/QUOTE]

Factual?  Really?!

I've had 4 cups today......

...... or have I?


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## LouandBee (4 September 2011)

I've only watched Mary Kings and Oli's rounds so far but came on here to see if his horse was o.k because you don't see it get up in the video?

Personally I didn't see anything wrong with his riding and I really didn't see the fall coming! Thought it was great that the first thing he did was go to his horse.


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## lannerch (4 September 2011)

And Mary king riding although brilliant is not always easy on the eye but we all quite rightly love Mary she is awesome!

It seems to be the in thing to dislike oli!


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## Molly'sMama (4 September 2011)

I like Oli Townend :O  He rode a good round. Its just that at that level the  highs are as high as the lows are low. for every amazing day, you have to have one as equally bad. 
I dont think he deserves the bashing. He still seemed polite after he fell on horse 1 and horse 2 started rearing. I know I would be snappy. 

*Nobody seems to be commenting on the fact Daniel Sibley got up and smacked his whip or whatever around like a little child.That shocked me.   *


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## Princecharming (4 September 2011)

I don't think anyone on here has given Oli a good bashing. I'm sure he's heard a lot worse and will have broad shoulders and a  big enough bank balance to laugh it off. 

And yeah totally agree I'm in the "wish I could ride half as badly" camp. 

And to the pp who said about Mary after the fall, I've often wondered that too and came to my own conclusion that surely they must feel it, they are only human after all. I had a fall at skipton and it was not nice!! Not nice for the rider and not nice for the horse. I didn't see what happened to Oliver Townends Neo after he fell, I just saw Oli grab his reins, and I felt a real pang of emotion when I saw his face on the floor.


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## Kiribati_uk (4 September 2011)

Molly'sMama said:



*Nobody seems to be commenting on the fact Daniel Sibley got up and smacked his whip or whatever around like a little child.That shocked me.   *

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Proper spoilt little brat, not once did he look at his horse!!!!!!!
Ok I'd probably throw my whip down and say few choice words BUT pony comes first ALWAYS!!!!!!!!


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## lannerch (4 September 2011)

I'm holding both oli and Mary in awe both recently had crashing falls and both just get up off the floor ( ok Mary was winded so not as quick ) 1st concern shown is horse, they remain friendly and then manage to jump straight back on at the next oppotunity full of confidence as if nothing has happened! 
I fell of last week too I too managed to compete ( and be100 not 4star) but I was nerves shattered and rubbish!


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## amage (4 September 2011)

Princecharming said:



			they are only human after all.
		
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Exactly....only human....he missed his stride he made a mistake! We all do it. Reckless.....bloody hell if that was reckless (and I am commenting on just yesterday's round not in general) then go report all the amateurs that wouldn't see a stride if there was a sat nav telling them where it was that jump their horses day in day out!


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## Cyclops (4 September 2011)

Hi - I too admire OT's guts and positive riding but I was at the Dairy Mound yesterday as a mounted steward and saw him riding up the steps to bounce - I felt horse was backing off and lacking confidence - hence Oli's "forward riding" - elbows etc!!!   My question is - are we pushing these young horses to far too quickly - I know all horses develop at different speeds and some are ready for more far earlier than others - but just looking at Oli's round - yes he rode positively (which I admire) but he was having to ride in such a way because the horse just didn't seem to be really enjoying it - so should the horse have been kept at ** and *** for a bit longer - very happy to be shot down but it didn't look pretty the way Oli had to ride into that fence which was towards the end of the course after some massive jumping efforts which is a big ask for a young horse (at this level) both mentally and physically


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## lannerch (4 September 2011)

Got to add Andrew Nicholson to my respect list didn't realise he had a crashing fall last week too with his fingers in one hand still strapped together!


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## ElleJS (4 September 2011)

Oli rides to win. He is incredibly determined, Most people would have been happy to take a 10yo round Burghley at a slower pace/hack round for experience, if Oli had done that Neo would have certainly got home clear, Oli is competitive and that is the difference between winning and losing and his career and gaining experience. He doesn't just need to get round clear with 20 plus time pens for the sake of experience. Sometimes it goes wrong like it did and yes perhaps he should have spent more time at 3* with that horse so it was up for the challenge at that speed but its his and his owners choice. (Cyclops I think you are spot on) 
Also as for Imperial Master he is a very talented horse and when they nap like that there is nothing you can do!!! (My top horse used to it, even an advanced events somtimes! Luckily not at Burghley!) It needed a sorting out and if Oli had done that then there would have been another post calling him a horse abuser. He had to do nothing and walk home.


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## Cyberchick (4 September 2011)

Andrew N rode super yesterday and I think Oli's style of riding might not suit every horse but certainly needed for his 2nd ride the nappy little s**t.


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## ajn1610 (4 September 2011)

Cyclops that's an interesting comment (can't quote on mobile!). A friend of mine started 4* last year and has done really well, She stayed longer at 2*/3* than most because of her having some injuries and she has commented to me that she's now really glad she had that extra time as she feels it really cemented confidence and experience and made the step up easier.


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## ladyt25 (4 September 2011)

How was/is ollie's horse? i saw it was up but the vet was checking and the screens were up - I assume all was ok?

As for Ollie as a rider, I have never been a huge fan as in the early days I think both him and Matthew Wright rode horses very hard and were renowned for running them in to the ground. However, after watching ollie recently I think he has matured a heck of a lot and his riding is sooo much better and you will see him retire a horse if it is struggling whereas back in the day I felt he just would push and push until it got messy.

You HAVE to be determind in eventing surely (god I know I would never have the balls to tackle those courses), if you weren't you'd never get anywhere and the horse would not trust you and would not want to take you round. That nappy horse incident was just unfortunate and can happen to the best of 'em - i mean, without that kind of behaviour, horses and horse sport would be very dull indeed! lol.


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## Ranyhyn (4 September 2011)

Molly'sMama said:



*Nobody seems to be commenting on the fact Daniel Sibley got up and smacked his whip or whatever around like a little child.That shocked me.   *

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Was that the chap on the grey(?) who came off at the water?  He was the only person whose behaviour after raised an eyebrow, but you just don't know, maybe shock... but it just didn't sit well that he just looked at his horse laid out in the water prone and seemed not to do one thing.


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## Maesfen (4 September 2011)

ElleJS said:



			Oli rides to win. He is incredibly determined, Most people would have been happy to take a 10yo round Burghley at a slower pace/hack round for experience, if Oli had done that Neo would have certainly got home clear, Oli is competitive and that is the difference between winning and losing and his career and gaining experience. He doesn't just need to get round clear with 20 plus time pens for the sake of experience...............
		
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But surely that's the point.  OT is experienced enough but the horse wasn't; it doesn't seem to occur to him to back off and give the horse a better experience for the future but he just doesn't seem to take the horse into account, it's all about him which is why I think he gets so much stick.


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## vineyridge (4 September 2011)

I've nicknamed him Olli, the Faller.  

It's very easy to compare results, including eliminations at the FEI search centre.  You could probably work which eliminations were falls.

His last four competitions on the FEI Search site this year were 3 EL XC, and 2 RET.  That's Burghley (EL & RET), Blair Castle (RET), Aachen (EL), and Blair Castle (EL).  Then he has a long string of completions, until you get to Chatsworth with elimination for both Imperial Master and ODT Master Rose.  And you have the falls at Badminton this year and Lexington last year on Ashdale Cruise Master.  

I can't think of a single fall by WFP in a 4*.  Or Dibowski.  Or many of the other world class 4* riders.


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## LEC (4 September 2011)

Interesting enough Caroline Moore is very strict with the Young Riders who do a 2* and are then desperate to go 3*. She makes them do another year at 2* then they can go to Bramham and most of them do exceptionally well as they have another years experience.


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## shady_lady (4 September 2011)

did anyone listen to mary king's interview on the bbc? she said that at the age of 50 she is still training as you never finish learning when it comes to horses...

has it occurred to anyone that oli is still learning from his mistakes?


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## Ranyhyn (4 September 2011)

I think some people are of the opinion that Ollie hasn't started learning yet!

Not that it's my opinion by the by but reading between the lines


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## vineyridge (4 September 2011)

Should add that all riders fall occasionally.  Horse falls are much rarer.  I've seen Andrew Hoy fall at Lexington, and of the very few World Class riders in the United states, Karen O'Connor has had a recent 4* rider fall at Badminton this year; and Phillip Dutton quite a few horse falls but not in 4*s.  Many North American 4* horses and riders fall , but our 4*quality tends not to be as high as yours and the Southern Hemisphere's.


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## philamena (4 September 2011)

BoolavogueDC said:



			Was that the chap on the grey(?) who came off at the water?  He was the only person whose behaviour after raised an eyebrow, but you just don't know, maybe shock... but it just didn't sit well that he just looked at his horse laid out in the water prone and seemed not to do one thing.
		
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He fell at the Hurdles in the arena. He did look mighty cross. 

One observation I've made: since the advent of Point Twos you see far more riders struggling to sort themselves out after a fall rather than going after the horse. Not a criticism in the slightest, just an observation that because the Point Twos seem to add to the shock factor, and make the rider quite uncomfortable until they can get it undone, it takes up their time and attention. Not that this is what happened in Daniel's case so much.


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## Twiglet (4 September 2011)

Molly'sMama said:



*Nobody seems to be commenting on the fact Daniel Sibley got up and smacked his whip or whatever around like a little child.That shocked me.   *

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This left a very bad taste in my mouth. I can understand it must be beyond disappointing to fall at one of the last fences, but in my (very humble) opinion, he rode in the fence dreadfully, the horse fell, his reaction was pure spoilt brat. He threw his whip down, shouted a bit, then grabbed the horse roughly from the steward to walk off, without glancing at it.


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## meardsall_millie (4 September 2011)

Twiglet said:



			then grabbed the horse roughly from the steward to walk off, without glancing at it.
		
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..... and then turned around and patted it.....

And yes, I was sitting about 50 yds away.......


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## Twiglet (4 September 2011)

Me too, in the front row. Didn't see that at all. Saw him dragging the horse from the steward though.


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## Twiglet (4 September 2011)

The last 15 seconds or so. Unfortunately it cuts off before he ungraciously takes the horse and leads it away. Does show him turn and throw his whip down in the direction of the horse. As I said, I'm sure he was disappointed - the reaction was pure tantrum. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIz45VNc9_E


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## milz88 (4 September 2011)

I hadn't seen that video before now but I have to say he was riding a bloody cracking round all the way up until then, the horse looked happy, keen and fit which is more than can be said for others. He would have been exceedingly disappointed after it was going so well, and to me it looked like pure frustration not tantrum, I would be more than frustrated after that fall with all the effort and skill it takes to get to burghley let alone to get round.

I think he should be cut some slack on these grounds! He is still young and at some point he'll learn this is not the way to react, but we did we see him riding an unfit horse?, beating it round? Having sticky moments? No. And as has been said he did pat the horse and he had his eye on it the whole time before he went to get it.


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## meardsall_millie (4 September 2011)

milz88 said:



			I hadn't seen that video before now but I have to say he was riding a bloody cracking round all the way up until then, the horse looked happy, keen and fit which is more than can be said for others. He would have been exceedingly disappointed after it was going so well, and to me it looked like pure frustration not tantrum, I would be more than frustrated after that fall with all the effort and skill it takes to get to burghley let alone to get round.

I think he should be cut some slack on these grounds! He is still young and at some point he'll learn this is not the way to react, but we did we see him riding an unfit horse?, beating it round? Having sticky moments? No. And as has been said he did pat the horse and he had his eye on it the whole time before he went to get it.
		
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At last - someone speaks some sense


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## stencilface (4 September 2011)

Its probably sensible to get your frustrations out on the grass before you go back to the horse isn't it?

I'm not proud of some of the things I've done in the past, but I'm sure we've all got frustrated with ourselves haven't we?  I would imagine he was more angry with himself than the horse!


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## Twiglet (4 September 2011)

No, but then he wasn't accused of doing any of those things as far as I can see? As I said, his reaction left a bad taste....I saw no pat (not saying it didn't happen, I just didn't see him even touch the horse until he fiddled with its bridle as he walked off). I've no doubt he was frustrated, and perhaps his reaction can be put down to age. It just didn't make for particularly pleasant watching from where I was sitting.


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## CalllyH (4 September 2011)

BoolavogueDC said:



			Was that the chap on the grey(?) who came off at the water?  He was the only person whose behaviour after raised an eyebrow, but you just don't know, maybe shock... but it just didn't sit well that he just looked at his horse laid out in the water prone and seemed not to do one thing.
		
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That was also quite a Nasty fall so e could have been hurt or just badly winded got his breath back then went to sort the horse out. 

I used to really dislike oli as I said in an earlier thread, he got very cocky quickly after a spell of good luck and an excellent season but I do feel for him this season. The less he does well the less owners and there horses to him, what he needs to do is get a couple of good youngsters, not rush them maybe even take next season out and come back confident, knowing the horses and hopefully do well. 

Also remember this season riders are pushing to do well to be in with a chance of the Olympics next year so there is added pressure. 

I thought the way oli went straight to his horse after the fall was excellent, in a split second after the fall he looked found at the horse and both looked quite startled. Hs riding at that fence before the fall wasn't great to watch but it may have been what the horse needed. 

He isn't my favourite British rider but I think he's starting to learn and it's time to give him a bit of a break and wish him well for future seasons.


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## Lolo (4 September 2011)

I thought Daniel Sibley had the worst luck after a stunningly well ridden round. Hitting the grass isn't spoilt brattish- all his hopes of a completion have just come crashing down at a simple fence, a few from home when the final fences were very easy in comparison. Once he'd been given the all clear he went over and ruefully took his horse and walked off away from the hundreds of people watching his very public downfall. As he walked off he rubbed it's nose and chatted to it... What else do you want? Overblown cuddles for a horse sky high on adrenaline!?


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## Twiglet (4 September 2011)

Stencilface said:



			Its probably sensible to get your frustrations out on the grass before you go back to the horse isn't it?

I'm not proud of some of the things I've done in the past, but I'm sure we've all got frustrated with ourselves haven't we?  I would imagine he was more angry with himself than the horse!
		
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I agre he was frustrated (as I keep saying!), and I haven't accused him of horse abuse! I just said I think his reaction was poor. I didn't want to get into a debate about it, it was just something that stuck in my head after yesterday, watching him grab the horse and march off. I might have guessed I'd get jumped on for having an opinion


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## Twiglet (4 September 2011)

Lolo said:



			I thought Daniel Sibley had the worst luck after a stunningly well ridden round. Hitting the grass isn't spoilt brattish- all his hopes of a completion have just come crashing down at a simple fence, a few from home when the final fences were very easy in comparison. Once he'd been given the all clear he went over and ruefully took his horse and walked off away from the hundreds of people watching his very public downfall. As he walked off he rubbed it's nose and chatted to it... What else do you want? Overblown cuddles for a horse sky high on adrenaline!?
		
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Yes, I wanted him to recite poetry to it and buy it flowers  As I said, I wasn't trying to get into a debate about it, I just didn't like the reaction when I saw it. Obviously I had a different take on it, should have known better than to voice on here


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## feefeeb28 (4 September 2011)

Alec Swan said:



			I'm sure that it is,  and whilst you may choose to disbelieve me,  _bashing_ wasn't my intention. 

I will none-the-less,  stand by my argument that a known napping horse has no business at such an event.  I accept that he qualified,  but that alters nothing.  If I owned that horse,  and despite his current riders abilities,  I would probably look elsewhere,  for a new rider.

Alec.
		
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Horses at this level are quirky. My friend has an advanced horse that can nap terribly but on her day be stunning. Of course the horse "had business being at such an event". Olli rode strongly and horse falls happen.


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## stencilface (4 September 2011)

Twiglet said:



			I agre he was frustrated (as I keep saying!), and I haven't accused him of horse abuse! I just said I think his reaction was poor. I didn't want to get into a debate about it, it was just something that stuck in my head after yesterday, watching him grab the horse and march off. I might have guessed I'd get jumped on for having an opinion  

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Oh no, I wasn't jumping on you, if I want to do that I have to quote your post don't I?

Oops, just done that - consider yourself jumped on


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## Twiglet (4 September 2011)

Stencilface said:



			Oh no, I wasn't jumping on you, if I want to do that I have to quote your post don't I?

Oops, just done that - consider yourself jumped on  

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You could have taken your boots off


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## milz88 (4 September 2011)

Agree with lolo! I have only sympathy for him given the circumstances, I know I've been frustrated at things in the past and I haven't necessarily acted as I should have done and I was not damn near the end of Burghley xc, we are human after all. Can't we all be glad he didn't have a horrible rotational and both have walked away in one piece, as someone else has said.. He was chatting to the horse as he led it away.


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## Cedars (4 September 2011)

Personally, I really like Oli, and I think he is an incredibly talented rider. 

I do, however, wonder whether his high level of falls at the moment is to do with how many horses he has at so many levels. I wonder whether he is doing so much, he is not spending as much time as perhaps he should on his 4* horses. 

But at the end of the day, we only have one eventer and I have no clue what it's like at that high level. It also really touched me to see how in the next breath after hitting the floor he immediately checked for his horse. 

Stay safe, Oli! Xx


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## meardsall_millie (4 September 2011)

Twiglet said:



			Yes, I wanted him to recite poetry to it and buy it flowers 

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Now that did make me laugh - good comeback!!


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## Lolo (4 September 2011)

Twiglet said:



			Yes, I wanted him to recite poetry to it and buy it flowers  As I said, I wasn't trying to get into a debate about it, I just didn't like the reaction when I saw it. Obviously I had a different take on it, should have known better than to voice on here 

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That made me giggle! I didn't mean it to sound like I'm jumping on you, but my heart absolutely went out to him and I just really hope we see him back at Badders soon  Him and Tom McEwen really impressed me this week.


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## OneInAMillion (4 September 2011)

Danny1234 said:



			and I still think there was a reason why A. Hoy didn't want Master Monarch to be ridden anymore *two* years ago. Anyway, back to topic.
		
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He was the one who suggested MM to Georgie S to show her the ropes - that's a bit different.



Molly'sMama said:



*Nobody seems to be commenting on the fact Daniel Sibley got up and smacked his whip or whatever around like a little child.That shocked me.   *

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I'm sorry but if I had been riding one of the best rounds of my life and was 2 fences from home I would be more than pis*ed off, wouldn't you? The adrenalin also makes all your emotion come out at once and I think I would have laid on the floor and cried on frustration. 
What would your perfect reaction have been? 




lannerch said:



			Got to add Andrew Nicholson to my respect list didn't realise he had a crashing fall last week too with his fingers in one hand still strapped together!
		
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Where/when did it happen, I also didn't know anything until I saw his interview


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## Whoopit (4 September 2011)

Would the people who have stories that they say they wont tell or arent for public consumption just not say that. Either tell it or dont bother inferring there are any.

Imagine how much work hes had to put in to get to where he is, that includes right from school  you cant just cut class to go play ponies for a day and still expect to get a good education in case you change your mind about horses and need to use your school grades to pursue something else.

Some people are born hard workers with a desire to win. No matter what the level of riding, it doesnt mean youre always going to get it right every time.


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## Amaranta (4 September 2011)

milz88 said:



			I hadn't seen that video before now but I have to say he was riding a bloody cracking round all the way up until then, the horse looked happy, keen and fit which is more than can be said for others. He would have been exceedingly disappointed after it was going so well, and to me it looked like pure frustration not tantrum, I would be more than frustrated after that fall with all the effort and skill it takes to get to burghley let alone to get round.

I think he should be cut some slack on these grounds! He is still young and at some point he'll learn this is not the way to react, but we did we see him riding an unfit horse?, beating it round? Having sticky moments? No. And as has been said he did pat the horse and he had his eye on it the whole time before he went to get it.
		
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Totally agree with this, the way the 'armchair experts' on here are going on you would think he had beaten his horse, and he did NOT throw his whip in the direction of his horse - how ridiculous!  He also patted the horse but the footage does not show that.

Poor guy, he had spent months preparing, rode a very good round and fell at the last - I would have been disappointed too.


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## jennieve (4 September 2011)

However much we all like to express our opinion, it is just an opinion. Most of us have not competed at 4*(or any*) level and therefore don't know how we would ride/behave in that circumstance.
I think Ollie is a good, capable rider who trying to make a business out in a notoriously difficult sport. I take my hat off to him, the sport needs more riders like him otherwise it is in danger of losing it's sponsors etc.
Some make not like his style but I've had a 'hands over the eyes' moment watching most top flight riders.


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## CalllyH (4 September 2011)

Yep it costs a lot of money to take a horse to and compete at burghley. Some like wfp all ready have money behind them. For others there is a greater need to finish within the money and therefore added pressure as well as just getting round. 

If the fall is due to the riders error no wonder frustration is going to be demonstrated.


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## PolarSkye (4 September 2011)

Me, I'm on the fence about Oli Townend . . . I don't know him personally so I can't comment on the man and what he's like, but I can't deny that I think he's a talendted rider (albeit a little gung ho at times across country).  

I will observe, though, that having spent three days at Burghley, the Oli bashing has spilled over from forums to actual, open abuse.  I was shocked to hear people in the stands on both dressage day and today in the showjumping being openly rude not just ABOUT him but TO him . . . making (loud) snarky comments, refusing to applaud him, shouting epithets, etc.  I was both shocked and disappointed.  Such bad manners give our sport a bad name and left a very bad taste in my mouth.

One last thing - which may or may not be materiel, we had front-row seats at the SJ at Burghley today - directly in front of the royal box which meant the retirement of Carousel Quest took place right underneath our noses (I have some lovely pictures which I will share shortly) . . . Oli appeared genuinely touched/moved to be retiring his former partner and received genuine affection from Quest's owner (who commissioned a statue of the horse especially for Oli).  Got to say something, surely?

P


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## Roasted Chestnuts (4 September 2011)

Having just watched his fall I cant see how it was his fault  The horse clipped the jump and went down, unfortunate but happens. He got up and went straight to the horse so where is there fault in that?

Or am I looking at the wrong clip??

It costs ALOT of money to do what these guys do, I get frustrated when not being able to attend one of my piddly little local shows due to something trivial happening, its human nature. I would certainly be upset and annoyed if I spent all that money and effort and an accident took me out of the competition.

I was watching a clip where a horse didnt jump a jump and landed the rider sitting on the jump and the rider slapped his whip down on the jump and kicked it with his heels like a kid having a tantrum and his horse was looking bemused as to why it was sitting wet in a jump, I found ti funny not disgusting or showing lack of professionalism.

these riders care about their horses as without them they wouldnt be competitng to this level.

Theres my tuppence worth for what its worth lol


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## Flame_ (4 September 2011)

I've never won Burghley, or ridden round Badminton and I didn't even watch today so I'm going to give my opinion just because I can....

If Oli Townend keeps having horse falls, he needs to slow down, improve his technique, be more careful and/or perhaps get new horses.


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## stencilface (4 September 2011)

PolarSkye said:



			I will observe, though, that having spent three days at Burghley, the Oli bashing has spilled over from forums to actual, open abuse.  I was shocked to hear people in the stands on both dressage day and today in the showjumping being openly rude not just ABOUT him but TO him . . . making (loud) snarky comments, refusing to applaud him, shouting epithets, etc.  I was both shocked and disappointed.  Such bad manners give our sport a bad name and left a very bad taste in my mouth.


P
		
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I think there's a whole world of difference to discussing this on a forum to being openly rude to someone's face - thats just awful, and doesn't say much for some horse people out there.  Regardless of any faults he may have, I don't think he does anything that would even begin to border on abuse/cruelty (not saying anyone on here has said he does that btw!). I really think that should save their disgust for a more worthy cause, like actual cruelty 

Hope ollie is having a stiff drink tonight


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## CalllyH (4 September 2011)

Polarskye that's sad that people didn't applaud him. He had a good partnership with quest and he needs to find a horse he bonds with like that again


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## Marydoll (4 September 2011)

Its easy to criticise when your not the one in the saddle, you never truly know what the riders are feeling under them coming to the jumps
I have watched horses go down with Oli where ive felt the horse never looked fit enough for, or experienced enough to do the track. Just my opinion on my limited knowledge of the horses in question, but what i gleaned from observation only.
I feel ... And this isnt aimed just at him, some horses are pushed up the grades to quickly and sometimes go round on a wing and a prayer, but get there, while others pay the price in injuries and accidents because they havent quite reached the skill level needed to deal with the questions asked.
As for Oli's riding, he is what he is, a very determined, competative rider who like most folks at the top of their sport/ career will take chances and push to the limits of there and there horses abilities, that is what competition is about surely ? sometimes it pays off other times it doesnt .......im in the camp of wishing to ride as badly as he does any day of the week.


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## LEC (4 September 2011)

I feel so sorry for Daniel Sibley - what a rubbish thing to happen. The horse was just fighting for his head and lost concentration. I would be pretty fed up as he did nothing wrong and it was 3 fences before the end.


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## Marydoll (4 September 2011)

LEC said:



			I feel so sorry for Daniel Sibley - what a rubbish thing to happen. The horse was just fighting for his head and lost concentration. I would be pretty fed up as he did nothing wrong and it was 3 fences before the end.
		
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Agree, it mustve been soul destroying, he was probably ripping mad, better to chuck your whip away and throw a strop than take it out on your horse


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## kirstyl (4 September 2011)

I have just read all of this post and am amazed by the comments.  Perhaps H + H Forum should have a weekly competition tally and see how well everyone on this forum has done, obviously comments, offensive or otherwise gratefully received


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## TPO (4 September 2011)

Just my two bobs worth but why after every major event are there pages and pages of negative comments, why are there never any positive threads?

At every event there are examples, be it over one fence or the whole course, of excellent horsemanship and all the hours (blood, sweat and tears) put in to get there shine through. Why are these not picked up on and discussed so that we can all learn something rather than just a general bashing?

For what it's worth (and that's very little!) I thought both Oli and Daniel rode good round and to quote Bob Avila "sometimes manure happens, and there's really no lesson but that."

On another note at the trot up at Blair 2009, show jumping day, there was a group of people shouting abuse as Oli trotted up. There is no excuse for that kind of behaviour; it's such a cowardly thing to do. I think it shows even more strength of character that the man continues to be so polite to the public given that the public aren't always polite to him.


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## Marydoll (4 September 2011)

TPO im really quite shocked at OT being openly abused at trot up at Blair.


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## Xtra (4 September 2011)

i have no real knowledge of eventing but was at the trot up at Blair TPO refers to and a small group of people were disgusting in their behaviour.  The minute he turned his horse they were yelling loud enough for us to hear at the other end.No need for that IMO and spineless behaviour no matter what you think of someone


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## oldvic (4 September 2011)

OneInAMillion said:



			He was the one who suggested MM to Georgie S to show her the ropes - that's a bit different.



I'm sorry but if I had been riding one of the best rounds of my life and was 2 fences from home I would be more than pis*ed off, wouldn't you? The adrenalin also makes all your emotion come out at once and I think I would have laid on the floor and cried on frustration. 
What would your perfect reaction have been? 



Where/when did it happen, I also didn't know anything until I saw his interview
		
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lannerch said:



			Got to add Andrew Nicholson to my respect list didn't realise he had a crashing fall last week too with his fingers in one hand still strapped together!
		
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I agree about Daniel Sibley - he hasn't always had the best of rounds with Tarmac Adam and he was 3 fences from home. A little frustration is harmless to anyone and totally understandable.

Andrew had a fall at Highclere last Sunday when Nereo's younger brother tipped up. He still rode 4 horses after, being placed on 3!!!! On Monday he struggled to hold the rein so only rode 6. It is much better - but I think many would still not be riding, let alone 2 round Burghley and I think the fingers will be strapped together for a week or two longer!!!


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## kerilli (4 September 2011)

I am really really shocked if people are saying things at/to him at events, that is shockingly bad form, and I take my hat off to him if he manages to rise above it. I was at the Leaf Pit when he came through with Neo and didn't hear a bad word said, fwiw.
I've watched the fall repeatedly, trying to work out what happened, and the only conclusion i can come to is that OT was on a right misser, most unusually for him, and maybe flapped a bit because of it, and that imho the horse unfortunately just didn't have the experience to be clever and cope. BUT it could easily be argued that you can't miss like that to fences that big and get away with it, etc etc.   
The rest of the round looked pretty good to me. It was green/looky down the Leaf Pit drop, and didn't land brilliantly, but he rode it determinedly from then on, which worked perfectly until he missed. The horse looked keen and confident all the time apart from at the big drop imho. 
Maybe it did need a slightly slower more educational run (I'm rather gobsmacked by its brief BE record, must admit) but nobody is saying anything about other top riders going inside the time on their horses' first time 4* runs...


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## Kokopelli (4 September 2011)

I think it's a shame that people can't be supportive of each other. Were a minority spot as it is which is often interpreted as bitchy and it's no wonder why.

OT has had a tough season and I really feel for him.


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## dressagelove (4 September 2011)

What a very interesting and good discussion! 

I do have some doubts about ollie T's recklessness across country, I think he should look after his horses a little better. It goes without saying how talented he is, obviously, but that alone does not make a champion. He needs a little more wisdom and insight, and patience perhaps for results!


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## RachelFerd (4 September 2011)

I have no problem with OT as a personality, and think he has done a lot for the sport in terms of making it appear less 'snobby'

However, watching him ride XC, he never gives as pleasing or harmonious a picture as Andrew Nicholson, or Mark Todd or WFP, or many others I could list. You could say that it was his 'style', but I think it actually boils down to just not being *quite* as well balanced as the aforementioned riders. I don't think he did anything wrong in his round, and I'm all for positive forward thinking riding. But strength alone can't get a horse over a fence safely!!

I also feel that he is noticably heavier (literal bodyweight) than most of the top male XC riders, and can only assume this does have a very negative effect on the horse by the end of a 4* XC - and especially tiring for them in hot conditions. Since a couple of pounds of weight can make all the difference in a five furlong sprint, I should think a heavier rider (especially on some noticably lightweight horses) is going to make a big difference by the end of a 4 mile XC course.


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## Whoopit (4 September 2011)

TPO said:



			At every event there are examples, be it over one fence or the whole course, of excellent horsemanship and all the hours (blood, sweat and tears) put in to get there shine through. Why are these not picked up on and discussed so that we can all learn something rather than just a general bashing?

On another note at the trot up at Blair 2009, show jumping day, there was a group of people shouting abuse as Oli trotted up. There is no excuse for that kind of behaviour; it's such a cowardly thing to do. I think it shows even more strength of character that the man continues to be so polite to the public given that the public aren't always polite to him.
		
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Well said you. Oliver is and always has been very polite. He's a nice guy and always has been, right from school. I'm not entirely sure why people dislike him so much - i'm sure people have their reasons, which is fine, other than they don't like his style of riding? If he's not your cup of tea, he's not your cup of tea, why make such a song and dance about it? In my experience he's genuine, fun and has no qualms about making a slight spectacle of himself.

Oddly enough, I find it amusing that the people who have a go at riders get told by others that unless you've done it/doing it, you've no room to comment (which is fine, I'm not commenting on that). Correct me if i'm wrong, but i'm sure I've not heard any of Oliver's fellow eventers slagging him off?!


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## LEC (4 September 2011)

Actually tbf to Ollie the horse is pretty experienced. He had done 2* in France 
and CIC3* with his french rider in 2008 and 2009.

the horse then did a season at 2* which it was well established at end season of 2009. Had a year off in 2010 and then did 3* and came to Burghley as first time 4*. 

He went to 3 x CIC3* including Aachen and CCI3* at Bramham where he came 3rd.

Piggy French went to WEG on the back of a good Bramham result as did Pippa Funnell.


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## kerilli (4 September 2011)

LEC said:



			Actually tbf to Ollie the horse is pretty experienced. He had done 2* in France 
and CIC3* with his french rider in 2008 and 2009.

the horse then did a season at 2* which it was well established at end season of 2009. Had a year off in 2010 and then did 3* and came to Burghley as first time 4*. 

He went to 3 x CIC3* including Aachen and CCI3* at Bramham where he came 3rd.

Piggy French went to WEG on the back of a good Bramham result as did Pippa Funnell.
		
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Ah, okay, I totally misunderstood what was said up there... I thought the horse had sj'ed before going to Oli in 09, done 1 N, then **, I, **, I, A, etc etc. Oopsy, my error. I thought it was gobsmackingly brief if that was all the eventing it had ever done!

what happened at Aachen CIC*** then, please, anyone?

Regarding the comment about his weight, I do wonder a little about this too, the very best top riders tend to be pretty skinny.


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## alwaysbroke (4 September 2011)

Totally shocked by how Oli is abused in public, not totally surprised to see he is getting a bashing on here, predicted it as he fell
I am now where near a good enough rider to comment on any 4* rider, but will say that when OH and I have seen Oli at events he always has a smile for us even though he hasn't got a clue who we are. I feel sorry for him, he admits he has done things in the past that he's not proud of, he is only human, hands up anyone who hasn't made mistakes with horses or life in general. Perhaps ' if you haven't anything nice to say dont say anything' should be used a little more often.


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## Honey08 (4 September 2011)

I too think its pretty low that people were rude to him.  If I was at a trot up and people did that I would tell them how rude they were!!

I did a clinic with OT years ago, and he was a very friendly guy who was a great teacher.

I've just finished watching the BBC coverage of Burghley that I taped today and its interesting that Ian Stark (I think it was him) in the commentary box said that he was riding fantastically!  Of course he knows nothing compared to people on here...

I don't think that OT is a heavyweight.  Yes he is a different shape to WFP, but he looks a pretty lean bloke.  My husband is the same height and build as WFP and he actually weights quite a bit - its just spread out over a long skeleton!


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## CalllyH (4 September 2011)

I've just looked at his Facebook pages again which I had hidden as they were driving me crazy. 

I just wishthey would drop all this team townend business. Sounds arrogant IMO. You dont see team king or team fox Pitt everywhere. They just get on with it


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## alwaysbroke (4 September 2011)

On the subject of weight, OH is not 'on the lean side', but is able to vault onto his 17.1, legging him up onto his 19hh horse is very easy, particularly compared to the effort it takes him to leg me up onto these horse He is a much much better rider than me, with good balance and a 'light' seat. Oli is perhaps shaped more like Clayton Fredericks rather than Mark Todd or William Fox Pitt, but as they have long legs they will have more 'bone' weight, the femur is the heaviest bone in the body


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## LBertie Wooster (4 September 2011)

everyones bilt diffrently and carry weight diffrently.

 All this is being said over an internet forum so to those who are slagging him off and critising him, next time you see him at an event why don't you go and say it to his face?! Would you confront him about what you think of his riding ability, weight, attitude, manners etc?!?!!


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## RachelFerd (4 September 2011)

Being tall does not make you heavy - I am 5'10 and under 9 stone, my OH is 5'9 and under 9 stone. WFP is probably not 'light' but he is probably as skinny as possible for his height. I do think most of the top flight event riders are either very skinny or petite. None appear to be carrying any excess. OT looks more like the top british SJ riders - but they are not galloping 4 miles across the country. His fitness is probably very good, and of course he will ride lighter than the majority of beginners, but watch Mark Todd over a fence and then watch OT and I'm certain that MT makes it just a little bit easier for the horse every time in terms of balance, weight and timing. 

I kind of think that Clayton looks a bit on the heavy side to ride the horses he does as well. But then I also don't think that over 12 stone is appropriate for any normal thoroughbred to carry and be expected to jump and gallop. I am aware that this would annoy a lot of people!


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## lannerch (4 September 2011)

I have team giraffe! Does that make me arrogant


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## Cyrus (5 September 2011)

It's team townend due to the amount of teeny bopper girls and some older women believing it is Oliver himself posting


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## marmalade76 (5 September 2011)

Have to say, he does look a bit big on this horse. Would probably look better if the horse wasn't quite so lean.

http://www.youtube.com/user/BurghleyTV#p/u/206/CqKy9-SHwUY

The top of the horse's rump is a bit


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## charlie76 (5 September 2011)

And lets be honest here. Oli's round looked brilliant until he came off, unlike Pippa funnells who looked like she would have done better to get off and carry the horse round.
why she was not stopped on that poor horse I will never know.


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## Miss L Toe (5 September 2011)

I think you will find all these eventers are pretty lean at this stage of the year, they are easily doing two hours work a day, and there is no fat carried. They are all about performance and athleticism, they just are so..... NOT dressage types


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## lannerch (5 September 2011)

Race horses too are often lean and definatly the time of year for lean eventers! 
Have we had a pop at oli's tack yet or perhaps what he was wearing?


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## TPO (5 September 2011)

lannerch said:



			Race horses too are often lean and definatly the time of year for lean eventers! 
Have we had a pop at oli's tack yet or perhaps what he was wearing?
		
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Pretty sure that <shock horror> he would have been wearing his own Team Townend branded apparel and tack. How terribly pompous of him (if I knew how to I'd have inserted a "rolling eye" face here!).

It's Team Townend, much like it's Team Fredericks, for marketing. People are more likely to invest their money into something they can feel a part of and in a way they are a part of it. By putting their money into the brand they are continuing to help fund the rider/team. 

I think it's also a nice acknowledgement that it's not just the riders but the whole team (owners, grooms, riders, farriers, vets, physios, trainers, hay delivery man, etc) that have had an input into getting the horse to the level it's at.


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## Yosemite (5 September 2011)

Kiribati_uk said:



			Bang out of order!!!!!!
When has he done that, oh in kentucky when he was carted off in an ambulance!!!!!
I hate this Jockey bashing last year it was Georgie Strang and Master Monarch, do you think these riders go out to put the horse on the floor?
No its called a mistake, and at 4star level the margin for errors is very slim!!!
WFP last week was bloodly lucky But had Cool Mountain of fallen would he be being slated for being reckless/careless?? No because its WFP!!!
Bit of respect for these riders wouldn't go amiss, I take my hat to ANYONE who can get to 4star level!!!
		
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Couldn't agree more.
Well said!


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## Chloe..x (5 September 2011)

The horse is looking a bit lean? Jesus christ i've heard it all now.

Look at the marathon runners, not an ounce of fat on them, why? Because they are endurance specialists, hence why TB types are favoured in eventing over any other breed...


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## mbequest (5 September 2011)

In response to him being a little larger than normal riders...... I'll  say it again but I reckon Oli fills a pair of breeches just nicely!!


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## kerilli (5 September 2011)

Chloe..x said:



			The horse is looking a bit lean? Jesus christ i've heard it all now.

Look at the marathon runners, not an ounce of fat on them, why? Because they are endurance specialists, hence why TB types are favoured in eventing over any other breed...
		
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4* horses are supposed to be as fit as possible, and you REALLY don't want them carrying excess fat. The horse looked fine to me. Nobody says that Grand National horses need to look fatter, and they're doing about the same distance and if anything don't need to be as athletic!
ffs, I'm wondering what else we're all going to criticise next...


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## glamourpuss (5 September 2011)

I am now rolling on actual laughing floor at the comments that a fit 4* horse is too lean. 

Seriously if this is what people think then there is never going to be a chance of the horse world ever wiping out the gross obesity we see in the showing world.


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## OneInAMillion (5 September 2011)

kerilli said:



			ffs, I'm wondering what else we're all going to criticise next...
		
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This... 

I neither love him or hate him. This isn't Oli-Bashing, it is a *hate thread*. Why don't you send him an email ( oliver@odteventing.com ) or maybe give him a call: 01691 690822 and tell him exactly what you've written?


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## kerilli (5 September 2011)

OneInAMillion said:



			This... 

I neither love him or hate him. This isn't Oli-Bashing, it is a *hate thread*. Why don't you send him an email ( oliver@odteventing.com ) or maybe give him a call: 01691 690822 and tell him exactly what you've written?
		
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Hahaha you must REALLY REALLY hate him... i can just imagine legions of HHOers ringing him up!

"Hello Oli, I'm Little Miss Nobody who has never ridden bigger than a minimus (and then I crapped myself) but I think your horse is too skinny, you're too fat, and you ride like crap. Oh, btw, I get frightened just sitting on the sofa watching Burghley, and wouldn't dare ride to one of those fences for a billion pounds..."    

fwiw that is NOT me... I thought he was doing a really good job until he got a horrible misser!


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## Festive_Felicitations (5 September 2011)

Too lean?  Holy cow, now I have heard everything! Do you call the RSPCA over the top Endurance horses? 

<_shakes head_> No wonder there are so many obese horses these days!


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## Santa_Claus (5 September 2011)

kerilli said:



			Hahaha you must REALLY REALLY hate him... i can just imagine legions of HHOers ringing him up!

"Hello Oli, I'm Little Miss Nobody who has never ridden bigger than a minimus (and then I crapped myself) but I think your horse is too skinny, you're too fat, and you ride like crap. Oh, btw, I get frightened just sitting on the sofa watching Burghley, and wouldn't dare ride to one of those fences for a billion pounds..."    

fwiw that is NOT me... I thought he was doing a really good job until he got a horrible misser!
		
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I will agree. Normally I'm not an OT fan but his riding has improved a lot over the last few years and up until that fence he was having a good round. He rode for the long one horse said no chipped in a short and the rest is history! He is far from the only pro that that has happened to! there were numerous alone on saturday but the majority of the rest got away with it 

As for IM napping I think OT was actually very very professional. When a horse naps like that there is very little you can do and he just sat quietly and let it do its thing before retiring. It has a history of napping and it's not something that can be instantly fixed so credit where its due to him there.

As for DS i challenge anyone on here to not act similary for it all to go wrong at the very end after a very good round, and sorry but what is wrong with throwing his whip to the floor in frustration? rather that than at his horse!


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## bexwarren24 (5 September 2011)

Santa_Claus said:



			As for DS i challenge anyone on here to not act similary for it all to go wrong at the very end after a very good round, and sorry but what is wrong with throwing his whip to the floor in frustration? rather that than at his horse!
		
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Completley agree with this. If I had ridden a horse for years, brought it up from the lower levels, managed to get to 4 star level (thats never going to happen) and then have my horse jump one its best ever XC rounds. Get it over the more complicated fences (IMO) to have my horse fall 3 fences from home then I too would be pretty fustrated. He threw his whip at the floor, not at a person or horse and from what I can see he was also struggling with his point 2 which wouldnt help the situation.


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## SpottedCat (5 September 2011)

Daniel Sibley is actually very nice and very personable. I 'met' him a few years ago at an event where he and his Mum were debating one of the moves in the dressage - he rode over and asked me what I was planning to ride! I had similar times to him all day, and every time I passed him he asked me how I was getting on (badly it is fair to say!). I then hacked down to the XC start with him and had a chat about horses with ulcers. When I finished he congratulated me on a nice clear. I am sure he doesn't remember at all, but he gave me some good advice and was thoroughly pleasant to me.

He patted the horse as he walked off, and when the crowd clapped acknowledged them (I was sat in the stands), and TBH I've been that frustrated at the ridiculously low level I go out to do, so to be so close to finishing Burghley and to have a mistake like that must be horribly frustrating, he doesn't deserve to be vilified for it at all. 

The bad press Oli gets on here makes me embarrassed to be a member - and someone on here thinks it is odd I didn't reveal my username in front of a whole load of pros, well that's why!


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## bexwarren24 (5 September 2011)

SpottedCat said:



			Daniel Sibley is actually very nice and very personable. I 'met' him a few years ago at an event where he and his Mum were debating one of the moves in the dressage - he rode over and asked me what I was planning to ride! I had similar times to him all day, and every time I passed him he asked me how I was getting on (badly it is fair to say!). I then hacked down to the XC start with him and had a chat about horses with ulcers. When I finished he congratulated me on a nice clear. I am sure he doesn't remember at all, but he gave me some good advice and was thoroughly pleasant to me.

He patted the horse as he walked off, and when the crowd clapped acknowledged them (I was sat in the stands), and TBH I've been that frustrated at the ridiculously low level I go out to do, so to be so close to finishing Burghley and to have a mistake like that must be horribly frustrating, he doesn't deserve to be vilified for it at all. 

The bad press Oli gets on here makes me embarrassed to be a member - and someone on here thinks it is odd I didn't reveal my username in front of a whole load of pros, well that's why!
		
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As someone who personally knows DS (I didnt admit to that in my previous post) I completly agree with how you have described him. He is a very friendly chap and by no means spoilt as someone previously described his behaviour. What he is is passionate and emotional and I dont think he should be criticised for that. He always takes the time out to ask me how my horse & I get on even though we are playing around at unaffliated level. He even got enthusiastic for me and genuinely happy when I got placed in a W&T test. Horses are his life and I know how gutted he felt falling at that fence.


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## glamourpuss (5 September 2011)

kerilli said:



			Hahaha you must REALLY REALLY hate him... i can just imagine legions of HHOers ringing him up!

"Hello Oli, I'm Little Miss Nobody who has never ridden bigger than a minimus (and then I crapped myself) but I think your horse is too skinny, you're too fat, and you ride like crap. Oh, btw, I get frightened just sitting on the sofa watching Burghley, and wouldn't dare ride to one of those fences for a billion pounds..."    

fwiw that is NOT me... I thought he was doing a really good job until he got a horrible misser!
		
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Don't forget Kerilli, that Little Miss Nobody also spotted that NZB Land Vision was too tired at the end of the XC at Badminton and Mark Todd should have pulled him up. It doesn't matter that he went on to win


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## ajn1610 (5 September 2011)

kerilli said:



			Hahaha you must REALLY REALLY hate him... i can just imagine legions of HHOers ringing him up!

"Hello Oli, I'm Little Miss Nobody who has never ridden bigger than a minimus (and then I crapped myself) but I think your horse is too skinny, you're too fat, and you ride like crap. Oh, btw, I get frightened just sitting on the sofa watching Burghley, and wouldn't dare ride to one of those fences for a billion pounds..."    

fwiw that is NOT me... I thought he was doing a really good job until he got a horrible misser!
		
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Well, how very dare you! I'll have you know that in my 15 years of 4* competition, during which I've been to all the major championships, I've never made a mistake, missed a stride or rolled a pole whilst riding my faithful stead 'Sofa'. So stick that in your pipe and schmoke it! ;-)


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## oldvic (5 September 2011)

Oli actually rode for the 5 strides that there was supposed to be but lost his line a little and got there on 5 1/2. On a left handed curving line a horse may well drift a little right, it happens. At that stage of the course it is at a time where the horse tends to go a little flat on you and his reactions can go a little slow. In this situation most horses find it easier to come off a forward stride than shorten like a fresh horse can. With hindsight I am sure Oli would have ridden it slightly differently but he didn't have that luxury.


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## PoppyAnderson (5 September 2011)

SpottedCat said:



			Daniel Sibley is actually very nice and very personable.
		
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I know a top showjumper who's a well known name who is the lovliest guy you could wish to meet. Charm personified in fact. He also happens to beat the living bejesus out of his horses, training at home, if they don't perform.


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## YorkshireLady (5 September 2011)

CRIKEY
I think that the person who said the line was off a bit and then he could not get the 5 had it...

and I think rather than all this he is too agressive or too competitive...or now even TOO FAT (That is getting a bit!!!!!!!!) I think that it was just about this horse being ridden out of its rhythm a bit which was why it did not look a smooth as say
Primitive Pistol, or AN's horses or Lenamore etc

I am no big fan of OT but this thread has now covered stuff it has not needed to.  Think it could be left...but sure it will carry on


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## noodle_ (5 September 2011)

This thread is ridiculous.....


Has anyone here actually ridden 4 star???  brought horses on to that level and competed them??


no thought not....... 

oli has only got that far due to sheer determination, and yes we all make mistakes but ffs he wouldnt be there if he was that crap.... would he?! :/


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## sprite1978 (5 September 2011)

CalllyH said:



			Polarskye that's sad that people didn't applaud him. He had a good partnership with quest and he needs to find a horse he bonds with like that again
		
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I agree with both of these points, but it does raise the question of how he gets his rides.... Maybe he needs to get back to basics and bring some horses through the grades and bond with them in the process. Its always difficult on other riders horses..


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## JenHunt (5 September 2011)

annabel2009 said:



			I have met him and yes he is ambitious but he is not as bad as people think, I think alot of people are unfair on him and as others have said he has had HF's at high profile events so people notice it more.
		
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I agree with this - I competed against him in pony club, and he's actually quite a nice guy. He's never made any bones about being ambitious, and this is what I think gets people's backs up. 



SusieT said:



			Ollies fall today and Mary's fall at the euros were pretty much caused by the same thing, no stride, and horses that were a bit too keen to take a long one when they shouldn't have. Ollie's horse should have put another one in, he maybe should have sat on it a tiny bit longer, but it was not by any means a massively obvious error.
		
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this ^^ Burghley is a notoriously tough course, requiring a lot of stamina from horse and rider. Most of the falls happened in the second half of the course (if i remember rightly) and could easily be put down to tired horse and/or rider making errors of judgement.


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## lannerch (6 September 2011)

I think you will find oli is bringing up his own horses through the ranks he has some lovely up and coming youngsters he's a local rider and is always in the be100 upwards at our local events.
He is now even trying with the harthill stud to breed his own , you can't bring them on from younger than that!

I admire oli and Mary for managing to be what they are and what most of us dream by pure ambition and graft they started with next to nothing.


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## MagicMelon (6 September 2011)

PoppyAnderson said:



			I know a top showjumper who's a well known name who is the lovliest guy you could wish to meet. Charm personified in fact. He also happens to beat the living bejesus out of his horses, training at home, if they don't perform.
		
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Then IMO he cannot be a lovely guy!  Just because someone is nice to speak to, the fact they beat their horses certainly puts them down as scum in my eyes.

I dont like the way OT rides, never have done.  He pushes his horses too hard and doesnt seem to care if they're tired etc. He is out to win, but thing is he wont be given top horses to ride if he keeps riding the way he does. Having 4 horse falls in one season is extremely worrying.


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## SpottedCat (6 September 2011)

PoppyAnderson said:



			I know a top showjumper who's a well known name who is the lovliest guy you could wish to meet. Charm personified in fact. He also happens to beat the living bejesus out of his horses, training at home, if they don't perform.
		
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I really have no idea how or why you think that is relevant to Daniel Sibley. No-one was commenting on how he treated his horses, behind the scenes or otherwise, they were saying he behaved like a 'spoilt brat' or words to that effect. I was merely saying that when I met him, that could not have been further from the truth. I don't understand at all why one person you know is nice to your face but horrible to their horses implies that others are the same  It's a bit unfair to post something like that as it really does give the impression that you think the same is/could be true of the person under discussion.


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## Loopypony (6 September 2011)

Cannot quite believe this thread is still going!!! It's absolutely shameful!!


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## glitterbug (6 September 2011)

noodle_ said:



			This thread is ridiculous.....


Has anyone here actually ridden 4 star???  brought horses on to that level and competed them??
		
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Yes I have, I have refrained from commenting on this and the other thread re Pippa so far but I have to say there are some people on here who are spouting opinions they no nothing about. To produce and ride at this level takes a lot of skill.
No one is perfect and we all make mistakes - except maybe the HHO's who sit in judgement ontheir sofas.
Have an opinion, yes but educate yourself first so you have some idea of what your talking about before airing those views on a public forum.
I love F1 and have lots of opinions about what goes on, but am I qualified to judge their decisions in public, no I am not I drive a road car not a racing car and the difference between normal and top level horses is probably the same.


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## bexwarren24 (6 September 2011)

glitterbug said:



			Yes I have, I have refrained from commenting on this and the other thread re Pippa so far but I have to say there are some people on here who are spouting opinions they no nothing about. To produce and ride at this level takes a lot of skill.
No one is perfect and we all make mistakes - except maybe the HHO's who sit in judgement ontheir sofas.
Have an opinion, yes but educate yourself first so you have some idea of what your talking about before airing those views on a public forum.
I love F1 and have lots of opinions about what goes on, but am I qualified to judge their decisions in public, no I am not I drive a road car not a racing car and the difference between normal and top level horses is probably the same.
		
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Well said! 



PoppyAnderson said:



			I know a top showjumper who's a well known name who is the lovliest guy you could wish to meet. Charm personified in fact. He also happens to beat the living bejesus out of his horses, training at home, if they don't perform.
		
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Obviously not a nice guy and I hope this is not some kind of comparison to DS. I can vouch that he does not "beat the living bejesus" out of his horses and he would be mortified if he read this.


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## kerilli (6 September 2011)

Oh dear.
Please may I just point out, before I get any more incensed and offended ranty pm's, that my 'phone call to Oli' comment was absolutely NOT aimed at any one HHOer, that it was supposed to be funny, that okay it was a bit of a dig at the 4*-sofa-riders on here, but it was not personal, as one person has taken it to be.
Jeeez.


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## OneInAMillion (6 September 2011)

kerilli said:



			Oh dear.
Please may I just point out, before I get any more incensed and offended ranty pm's, that my 'phone call to Oli' comment was absolutely NOT aimed at any one HHOer, that it was supposed to be funny, that okay it was a bit of a dig at the 4*-sofa-riders on here, but it was not personal, as one person has taken it to be.
Jeeez.   

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I thought it was funny K


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## kerilli (6 September 2011)

OneInAMillion said:



			I thought it was funny K 

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I'm glad someone saw that side of it!  I mean, I'm not setting up as a comedienne here, but if I wanted to be an arch-bitch I wouldn't do it like that, on such a silly topic, I'd get stuck into some of the people I see doing truly nasty things to horses!


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## Dovorian (6 September 2011)

Perhaps we could have 'Fantasy Eventing', pick your horses, riders and courses..


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## AandK (6 September 2011)

OneInAMillion said:



			I thought it was funny K 

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Ditto! 

I won't add any comments re the rest of the thread as it is getting a bit rediculous..

I went to Burghley and had a great time watching some fantastic riders on some amazing horses, jumping some bl00dy massive fences!  I have nothing but admiration for anyone who can produce and ride a horse at 4* level.


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## Marydoll (6 September 2011)

glitterbug said:



			Yes I have, I have refrained from commenting on this and the other thread re Pippa so far but I have to say there are some people on here who are spouting opinions they no nothing about. To produce and ride at this level takes a lot of skill.
No one is perfect and we all make mistakes - except maybe the HHO's who sit in judgement ontheir sofas.
Have an opinion, yes but educate yourself first so you have some idea of what your talking about before airing those views on a public forum.
I love F1 and have lots of opinions about what goes on, but am I qualified to judge their decisions in public, no I am not I drive a road car not a racing car and the difference between normal and top level horses is probably the same.
		
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Probably one of the most balanced comments on this thread,


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## Molly'sMama (6 September 2011)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Molly'sMama  
Nobody seems to be commenting on the fact Daniel Sibley got up and smacked his whip or whatever around like a little child.That shocked me.  

I'm sorry but if I had been riding one of the best rounds of my life and was 2 fences from home I would be more than pis*ed off, wouldn't you? The adrenalin also makes all your emotion come out at once and I think I would have laid on the floor and cried on frustration. 
What would your perfect reaction have been?
		
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I didnt say his reaction was unjust. I meant that all this fuss about Oli, when I saw nothing wrong with his round/fall, when Daniel did get a bit frustrated, much more so than Oli, and that was fine apparently. 




			Totally agree with this, the way the 'armchair experts' on here are going on you would think he had beaten his horse, and he did NOT throw his whip in the direction of his horse - how ridiculous! He also patted the horse but the footage does not show that.

Poor guy, he had spent months preparing, rode a very good round and fell at the last - I would have been disappointed too.
		
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I'm not an armchair expert . Lol, I'm just comparing the rounds and thought Oli deserved none of this when there were other riders who acted in a  way slightly less PC , in a way  ( IMO) 
I too thought he did well. 
X


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## Lace57 (6 September 2011)

Havent read all the posts. In my opinion and quite a few other well known riders around me... Ollie carries his horses round each course and does everything for him therefore when they are in the **** (lets face it no1 is perfect to every fence xc) they dont know how to look after themselves and him. Thy are too used to him doing everything for them. I think hes a very hard rider and pushes them quite often when they are too tired


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## oldvic (6 September 2011)

Having spoken to someone who would know, an interesting point came to light. The fence walked on a holding 5 but, because the horses were landing flatter than expected and with less power after the steps/bounce, it in fact rode on a moving 5. This meant that the line that the early riders took gave the horses a lot to do. After a handful of riders had been, riders started taking a tighter line to shorten the distance. Oli was one of the handful.


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## Bubblegum (6 September 2011)

oldvic said:



			Having spoken to someone who would know, an interesting point came to light. The fence walked on a holding 5 but, because the horses were landing flatter than expected and with less power after the steps/bounce, it in fact rode on a moving 5. This meant that the line that the early riders took gave the horses a lot to do. After a handful of riders had been, riders started taking a tighter line to shorten the distance. Oli was one of the handful.
		
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I really wish there was a 'like' button on HHO. This is one post that I would 'like' and I know my daughter would too.
Thank you oldvic...a voice of common sense,reason, informed etc etc... much appreciated.


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## lannerch (6 September 2011)

Yup I'm pressing that like button too


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## diggerbez (6 September 2011)

ajn1610 said:



			Well, how very dare you! I'll have you know that in my 15 years of 4* competition, during which I've been to all the major championships, I've never made a mistake, missed a stride or rolled a pole whilst riding my faithful stead 'Sofa'. So stick that in your pipe and schmoke it! ;-)
		
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hahahahahaha


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