# Polite tabards and your horse



## Abbeygale (1 February 2013)

I received a phone call today from Your Horse as I had recently subscribed and had received a 'Polite' tabard with the subscription. They said they've now just heard that the Polite hi viz is illegal (under the impersonating a policeman act) and not to use it. 

Is this actually further proof that it really isn't allowed or is it action being taken after the threads on here recently? HHO power strikes again??

Also if anyone can recommend a lightweight tabard with zipped pockets for summer use I'd be grateful!


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## Goldenstar (1 February 2013)

Buy a waterproof marker pen score out polite and use it.


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## Abbeygale (1 February 2013)

Is it just the polite marking? Not the blue/silver checks that are the problem?


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## JFTDWS (1 February 2013)

Really? That is interesting!


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## s4sugar (1 February 2013)

Use a marker to make the P a B.


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## Moomin1 (1 February 2013)

I must admit this is one of the reasons I haven't bought any.  I have wondered a few times about the potential problems in that sort of area!


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## Abbeygale (1 February 2013)

Yes JFTD - they phoned me this afternoon. 

S4sugar - I'm confuddled!! If you make the P a B it will read Bolite? Am I missing something?  lol

I wanted the subscription but the zipped pockets and lightweight hi viz of the tabard was an added bonus

Just to add YH are sending out a replacement gift apparently


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## kellybee (1 February 2013)

I wouldnt spend another penny with that company after the MD screamed, bellowed and swore down the phone at my mum! 

To be honest though, i think once a driver has realised its not a police jacket they'll have little or no respect for it.

Mine says "YOUNG HORSE training thanks for your patience" in bold red font. I printed it myself (its my job) and personally i think its much more polite than the "POLITE" one.


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## s4sugar (1 February 2013)

Would anyone read Bolite as Police? 

Just a brand name rather than a misleading signal.


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## s4sugar (1 February 2013)

I want one that says - Caution, Camera in use.


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## Abbeygale (1 February 2013)

Ah ok s4s - gotcha! Thought I was just being incredibly dim (which I think I was lol). 

I just got a full sleeve jacket that has a triangle with writing on it on the back. But tbh I think I will be rolling that up away as unless you're really close, I'm sure you wouldn't be able to read it. A bit like those car stickers that say 'baby on board' - you can never see them till you're mega close!


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## MyBoyChe (1 February 2013)

Does anyone know what happens to all of us who have bought from this range in good faith?  If its true it's illegal should we all be sending it back for a refund!


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## Abbeygale (1 February 2013)

I don't know MBC tbh. I was thinking about phoning equisafety on Monday to see where they stand, but after reading a couple of kellybee's posts I'm not sure I'm brave enough!!!


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## glamourpuss (1 February 2013)

Well given that the last 2 threads discussing this Polite range have disappeared I should imagine this one won't be around long


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## criso (1 February 2013)

Abbeygale said:



			Ah ok s4s - gotcha! Thought I was just being incredibly dim (which I think I was lol). 

I just got a full sleeve jacket that has a triangle with writing on it on the back. But tbh I think I will be rolling that up away as unless you're really close, I'm sure you wouldn't be able to read it. A bit like those car stickers that say 'baby on board' - you can never see them till you're mega close!
		
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I have pink one that that says "Please pass wide and slow" but usually have it rolled up.   One time going back into work after the yard I got some very odd looks at Kings Cross with the triangle down.  

Only issue with it is it's so warm, too warm for most of the year.  Decided I want something sleeveless in Orange that zips up and has good pockets for the summer.  Not fussed about the make, depends what's on special offer.

Kellybee I would be careful of one that says Young Horse in Training, as were something to happen it could be argued you are admitting your horse is inexperienced and not yet used to traffic and shouldn't  have been on the roads.


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## Abbeygale (1 February 2013)

Oooh I didn't know that GP! :-O

Criso - that was why I liked this one - as it had nice pockets. I shall be attacking it with a marker pen dreckly


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## alainax (1 February 2013)

I've never wanted " wide and slow" printed on my back 

I heard a crazy story that "caution young horse" voids insurance as admitting not ready to be on the road 

I like the polite one as its adjustable, has a zip and has zippy pockets, found that hard to find in a tabard before. If it is true ill just be taking the polite word off the back


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## wallykissmas (1 February 2013)

kellybee said:



			I wouldnt spend another penny with that company after the MD screamed, bellowed and swore down the phone at my mum! 

To be honest though, i think once a driver has realised its not a police jacket they'll have little or no respect for it.

Mine says "YOUNG HORSE training thanks for your patience" in bold red font. I printed it myself (its my job) and personally i think its much more polite than the "POLITE" one.
		
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Same here, very rude arrogant women


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## ELFSBELLS (1 February 2013)

Hubby bought me the tabard for xmas, have'nt had the chance to use it yet, still got the tags on, I usually wear a pink hi viz jacket, don't suppose it will see use now !!


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## Clodagh (1 February 2013)

I don't like them anyway and it does look like you are impersonating the police, hence I stuck to my plain hi vis waistcoat. Still, the company have made plenty of money in the interim so those of you with recent purchases should get your money back, I would think?


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## amandaco2 (1 February 2013)

Why does it look like a police person?
It says polite. It's a different word to police!!!
Hardly impersonating police. Love to see that argued in court....


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## Cavalier (1 February 2013)

Just wash the tabard a couple of times and the blue and silver soon comes off. Certainly not washable as described.


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## inamac (1 February 2013)

amandaco2 said:



			Why does it look like a police person?
It says polite. It's a different word to police!!!
Hardly impersonating police. Love to see that argued in court....
		
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It's not just the 'Polite' wording, it's combined with a police-like black and white checked pattern, which the company also sells to 'enhance' a riding helmet.

Though ordinary high-vis is just as likely to be respected (or not) by drivers (police riders themselves sometimes have to deal with drivers being inconsiderate and trying to 'scare' the police horses).

Why take the risk?


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## Munchkins (1 February 2013)

Anything that makes you look like Police is not allowed - there is an Act on it, I Googled it - http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1996/16/contents and go to number 90 (I think it is impersonation)  

Just wear good hi-vis - i got mine from Rockfish and Vbandz and they are good


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## luckilotti (1 February 2013)

The thing that gets me is... if you google it, nothing comes up that is it illegal so.... 
I am sure IF it had been confirmed as illegal it would come up on google, recent news etc. 

I do chuckle sometimes when i pass riders with it, as there is no way they could even think they were pulling off the 'Mounted Police' look when they are on a 13hh pony... there is a couple locally who wear the full kit, and ride with an attitude and clearly think they are fooling drivers.....


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## Hexx (1 February 2013)

They have a Facebook page, why don't we just ask them directly?


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## Shysmum (1 February 2013)

*PLEASE READ THIS* - http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/397/310949.html

There is nothing on google or anywhere else that I can find that states the police disapprove of this range. Further, the products are *STILL FOR SALE,* and if there was any doubt they would be withdrawn from sale immediately.

I hate this scare-mongering - I have nothing but praise for the extra safety my tabard has provided me and my pony with. I would like to think that any police officer worth his salt would rather see this tabard being worn, than attend a horse and rider accident, any day.


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## Elsiecat (1 February 2013)

It's all scare-mongering. It's no more impersonating a policeman/woman than going to a fancy dress party.
I'll continue to wear mine


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## Ella19 (1 February 2013)

If you're worried turn it inside out or for tabbard with pocket check out v bandz


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## Kaylum (1 February 2013)

alainax said:



			I've never wanted " wide and slow" printed on my back 

I heard a crazy story that "caution young horse" voids insurance as admitting not ready to be on the road 

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No it does not void insurance, it's a myth.  You can have what you like written on the back.  You can take a young horse on the road and warn people you are doing it or take a young horse on the road and not warn people, either way it doesn't matter. 

What could void your insurance is not wearing hi viz. you could be had for causing a road accident if you weren't visible to road users.


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## Abbeygale (1 February 2013)

I'm sorry - but I'm not scare mongering - I started this thread with a phone call that I received from Your Horse magazine this afternoon. 

And also that H&H news article is 2 months old. Much can happen in 2 months. 

I'm not saying either way - just what I'd been told on the phone this afternoon


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## Herts05 (1 February 2013)

Really? I wear mine all the time when i hack and have been passed a number of time by Police cars. None of them have ever stopped me or made any comment about my Polite tabard. Will keep on wearing it as it certainly makes a difference


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## weesophz (1 February 2013)

i went for a comedy effect, mine says asbo horse on the back eventhough fox is a dream in traffic haha, people tend to take a wide berth!


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## criso (1 February 2013)

Kaylum said:



			No it does not void insurance, it's a myth.  You can have what you like written on the back.  You can take a young horse on the road and warn people you are doing it or take a young horse on the road and not warn people, either way it doesn't matter. 

What could void your insurance is not wearing hi viz. you could be had for causing a road accident if you weren't visible to road users.
		
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Correct, it doesn't void insurance but if an accident happens, the driver, their solicitor and insurance company are all going to be trying to find any little thing to show that the horse rider was negligent in  some way and that their actions contributed to the accident.

If they can show that the horse was inexperienced, nervous or unreliable on the roads and the rider went on the roads knowing that, then they have ammunition.


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## stencilface (1 February 2013)

I've had my equafleece gilet for 8 years now and it still looks brand new it washes that well. Has pockets for keys and phone, and goes over quite a lot of layers. It's not great for those hot days we get in summer, but how many of those do we actually get?! Lol

I'm going to buy some running t shirt hi vis for summer riding, hopefully with a back pocket


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## Paint Me Proud (1 February 2013)

i bought an ex-police hi-viz jacket.

They remove all the police wording to make them legal and they have loads of pockets and come in a variety of styles.

Here is a link to some of the vest style ones on ebay, take a browse 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_nkw=ex+police+vest&_sacat=0&_odkw=ex+police+tabard&_osacat=0&_from=R40


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## topstripelucy (1 February 2013)

My hubby is a copper and has received notification iro the polite horse and cycling gear.  You can get done for impersonating a policeman using them and also using tabards with the blue checker markings so be careful.  I ride out in a yellow tabard with young horse on it...even though there are loads of yellow jackets in my cupboard with the blue checker on it with having a hubby in the job lol!


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## somethingillremember (1 February 2013)

As far as I know the Polite range is approved by the Police . Call her on Monday and ask . Im sure if there was a problem they would of been removed from shelves etc .  But maybe the phonecall you have had is the start of a recall ?


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## Paint Me Proud (1 February 2013)

topstripelucy said:



			My hubby is a copper and has received notification iro the polite horse and cycling gear.  You can get done for impersonating a policeman using them and also using tabards with the blue checker markings so be careful.  I ride out in a yellow tabard with young horse on it...even though there are loads of yellow jackets in my cupboard with the blue checker on it with having a hubby in the job lol!
		
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I spoke to the police officer at work who assured me as long as the wording was removed it was okay to wear the blue checkers.

Seems there is a lot of differing opinion on the matter, which doesnt surprise me, it is a difficult one to call.


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## YorksG (1 February 2013)

I would have thought that North Yorks police would have had better things to do, than go looking for 'crimes' such as waiting to spot riders 'impersonating' a police officer  Rural crime anyone?


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## Toby_Zaphod (1 February 2013)

Herts05 said:



			Really? I wear mine all the time when i hack and have been passed a number of time by Police cars. None of them have ever stopped me or made any comment about my Polite tabard. Will keep on wearing it as it certainly makes a difference
		
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You will not be stopped & spoken to by Police Officers because you are committing no offence whatsoever!!

If people take the time to read the Act & section regarding impersonating a Police Officer they will see that the wearing of a 'Polite Tabard' is not an offence under that act.


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## Blythe Spirit (1 February 2013)

How annoying - I just bought one of these after not doing so for ages because I was concerned the police might not like it but seeing they have been on the Market for ages I bought one and actually it's worked better than any of the various tabards I have ever had. I'd be annoyed if I have to stop wearing it. Agree police might have better things to do than stop riders who are simply trying not to get killed by idiot drivers who are the people the police should be targeting - frankly I don't think it's very polite of them!


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## DressageCob (1 February 2013)

Toby_Zaphod said:



			You will not be stopped & spoken to by Police Officers because you are committing no offence whatsoever!!

If people take the time to read the Act & section regarding impersonating a Police Officer they will see that the wearing of a 'Polite Tabard' is not an offence under that act.
		
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It's only an offence if you are intending to be mistaken for a police officer, or if you are wearing an article of police uniform in circumstances where you could be perceived to be a police officer. So you're right, it isn't obviously an offence. If someone is intending to be seen as a police officer by wearing it is a matter for debate (although I struggle to see why you'd choose those tabards if you didn't want drivers to be mistaken into thinking you're a police officer since other high is does every other job). 

However, around me cyclists have been stopped by police for the cyclist version of the police tabards, as well as motorcyclists, so it is clearly a cause for concern. 

Personally I think they're naff  I much prefer standard high vis.

And the "Caution Young Horse" or "young horse in training ones" can be used against you if an accident occurs. It's like you're already accepting that your horse is going to be difficult or silly or dangerous. I know because I've used it myself in cases


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## Toby_Zaphod (1 February 2013)

The Crown Prosecution Service would not entertain taking the wearing of these tabards to courtas impersonating a Police Officer because it would be a waste of money as the possibility of a satisfactory prosecution is nil.

As for Your Horse magasine not w\nti ng to give them out or condone the wearing of them due to 'impersonating a Police Officer' this is a knee jerk reaction by them just incase the weasring of one could be against the law & obviously they don't want to be seen to condone the breaking of the law. Really they should refer the matter to their solicitors & get professional advice because they clearly haven't at the moment.


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## horseandshoes77 (1 February 2013)

I shall still wear mine, I cant see the police stopping people for this and if they did what would happen?? they don't do anything much when we have dangerous drivers, fly tippers, rapists etc so I think my one tabard should not cause me a stint in jail or fine ! I also don't understand the checkered thing... some clothing is very similar but is everyday wear ? if it stops one driver ramming up my horses behind then ill take my chance.

Have heard the rumour about young horse tabards but then again not convinced..i have a right to be on the road and would have thought that young or old horses shouldn't matter..either a horse will spook etc or wont regardless of age !

After all they are the original 4x4


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## JellyBeanSkittle (1 February 2013)

Umm. Having just spoken with the police, this is all rubbish and plain old scare mongering by the original OP the other day. Polite tabards are fine.


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## Abbeygale (1 February 2013)

Paint me proud - those ex police tactical hi viz vests look awesome! Sooo many pockets lol

I suspect until there is some official release from equisafety / police forces then there is going to be continued debate. 

As I was planning to use mine in the summer (!!!) I will hold fire on attacking it with a marker pen just yet!


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## JJones (1 February 2013)

kellybee said:



			I wouldnt spend another penny with that company after the MD screamed, bellowed and swore down the phone at my mum!
		
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And I thought it was just me!


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## Coblover63 (1 February 2013)

Well the Polite range has been out for a couple of years.  Seeing as the police only decided to start issuing their hi-viz as standard last September, I think Equisafety should make a citizens arrest to THEM for impersonating a horse-rider!!!


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## Brontie (1 February 2013)

My main concern was Equisafety was featured on a BBC programme 'Fake Britain' where they conducted tests on the safety and reflectiveness of the product, and it failed the tests and that their products do not reflect enough light, nor have the right amount of fluorescent / tape to be safe. Equisafety went on about how they were going to release a statement about it. I asked them a while ago when they were planning on doing so, and got blocked! Would still like to know what they have to say!


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## mashnut (2 February 2013)

Brontie said:



			My main concern was Equisafety was featured on a BBC programme 'Fake Britain' where they conducted tests on the safety and reflectiveness of the product, and it failed the tests and that their products do not reflect enough light, nor have the right amount of fluorescent / tape to be safe. Equisafety went on about how they were going to release a statement about it. I asked them a while ago when they were planning on doing so, and got blocked! Would still like to know what they have to say!
		
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Saw that programme. That's what put me off but then my current tabard wouldn't pass by any stretch of the imagination!
As a side note Ikea sell hivis vests (also in kids sizes) really cheep (worth applying for an ikea family card at least).

No I don't work for Ikea either. Just try to keep me safe on the road because car drivers just don't see me on half ton of beast nor 1/4 ton of motorbike....


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## Beausmate (2 February 2013)

I've got a bright orange highway jacket, cost about £20 and is warm and waterproof.  I also have a hi-viz tabard I got from work, it's EN471 standard, should be ok visibility wise.  That one's yellow and for warmer weather (ha!) use.

Found this site...
http://www.thesafetysupplycompany.co.uk/c/287901/1/all-hi-vis-vests.html

Didn't know they came in so many colours.  No lime green though


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## Ellen Durow (2 February 2013)

s4sugar said:



			I want one that says - Caution, Camera in use.
		
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I used to have one which said "Caution - Disabled Rider" (perfectly legit in my case) and it worked a treat. Cars used to give me such a wide berth that they were practically driving through the gardens of the houses on the far side of the road!! Got it from Robinsons, I think, and I've ever seen one for years.

I now use the un-messaged ones I got from from Ikea which cost under a fiver rather than the expensive ones from the horse shops.


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## criso (2 February 2013)

Brontie said:



			My main concern was Equisafety was featured on a BBC programme 'Fake Britain' where they conducted tests on the safety and reflectiveness of the product, and it failed the tests and that their products do not reflect enough light, nor have the right amount of fluorescent / tape to be safe. Equisafety went on about how they were going to release a statement about it. I asked them a while ago when they were planning on doing so, and got blocked! Would still like to know what they have to say!
		
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that's not exactly what the programme said.
The material equisafety used does meet all the guidelines, what they hadn't done was get the individual designs approved. If there was too much writing on it, it would hide the reflective material and no longer be effective. 
They also did reflective tests on a waistcoat. That wasn't an equisafety one but bought cheap from somewhere like a pound shop. In that case the reflective material simply wasn't.

The programme didn't mention names and used hi viz from a few sources but the polite range is recognisable. 

The lesson I took from  the programme was don't buy the cheap ones you see in pound shops and even if it does have the correct safety standard tagged,  go for designs with less writing on it so it doesn't obscure the reflective material.


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## Goldenstar (2 February 2013)

Toby_Zaphod said:



			You will not be stopped & spoken to by Police Officers because you are committing no offence whatsoever!!

If people take the time to read the Act & section regarding impersonating a Police Officer they will see that the wearing of a 'Polite Tabard' is not an offence under that act.
		
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They would have to prove intent and they will have to prove it in a court , AFAIK there is no case law at this time so no one can say wearing one of these vests is illegal as the law has never been tested.
If you have one of these jackets and you are worried score out polite ( or put an IM in front !!) and use it up.
If the police have recieved a memo telling them to harass rider wearing these shame on them my repect for them diminishes makes me wish if I had one ,And that they would stop me and I would delight in telling them to prove it and I would have a whale of a time with the media.


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## Horlicks (2 February 2013)

I'm going to continue wearing mine - it has made a difference - more people do slow down and that can only be a good thing!


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## Wiz201 (2 February 2013)

I just have a plain reflective jacket for my RDA carriage driving work. In summer when its warmer, I wear a reflective vest again just plain. When I first saw those polite reflective gear, it does make you look like the police with the stripes as well as the word polite. After all, its only one letter difference.


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## Leg_end (2 February 2013)

Just beware with these, I've read on the car forums that some drivers are annoyed with riders 'pretending to be like the police' and so speed past v close. It will probably work for ignorant drivers once but when they realize they've been fooled they'll be worse next time. 

Just stick to standard high vis.


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## ester (2 February 2013)

Brontie said:



			My main concern was Equisafety was featured on a BBC programme 'Fake Britain' where they conducted tests on the safety and reflectiveness of the product, and it failed the tests and that their products do not reflect enough light, nor have the right amount of fluorescent / tape to be safe. Equisafety went on about how they were going to release a statement about it. I asked them a while ago when they were planning on doing so, and got blocked! Would still like to know what they have to say!
		
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well yes.. there was not enough fluorescent because too much of it is obscured by the writing (the material was the right quality)... which is the reason most people have bought it  I don't really think equisafety had any case to answer on that one.


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## ponypilotmum (2 February 2013)

Can I just ask, for all you 'polite' owners who are pooh - poohing the claim of impersonating a police officer - why did you buy your tabards in the first place? Because at first glance it makes you appear to be the police and so makes drivers slow down? 

I have also seen the car drivers reactions to these tabards. It causes annoyance. 

NO amount of polite tabards can make up for plain common sense. If you can move onto a verge - do, if you can trot to a passing place, do. And thank drivers who DO slow down. I know many of you say you do say thanks, but on an average drive round the countryside 90% of riders DON'T! 

(PS love equisafety's replies on this thread - gives a ve]ry good impression of the company )


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## criso (2 February 2013)

Leg_end said:



			Just beware with these, I've read on the car forums that some drivers are annoyed with riders 'pretending to be like the police' and so speed past v close. It will probably work for ignorant drivers once but when they realize they've been fooled they'll be worse next time. 

Just stick to standard high vis.
		
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So what excuse do they use for speeding past fast and v close when you're not wearing it.

Some drivers may get annoyed because they feel like they've been tricked into slowing down, but the implication there is that they weren't intending to slow down in the first place. What has is come to if the only way to slow them down is if they think you are the police.

I followed a link to a car forum once that was discussing horses on roads and there was lots of talk of how funny it was to upset horses and make riders fall off because they shouldn't be on the roads.  I know it's not the majority but these people are around and driving and however you look at it they hate us.

The only thing that might work would be a high profile advertising campaign followed by very harsh penalties for driving inappropriately round horses.  

I wear very bright hi viz on me and my horse, some is Equisafety, some isn't but to  maybe a quarter of drivers it makes no difference.  There was nearly an accident recently when a Lorry decided to fly past us, very fast and nearly went headlong into a car coming the other way.  I was visible, he had seen us, he would have seen me thank a driver who had slowed down coming  towards us but that didn't get in the way of his perceived right to drive as fast as he wanted even in inappropriate situations.


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## glamourpuss (2 February 2013)

I have 1 which I will never wear again following 2 incidents with drivers who have hurled abuse at me for 'impersonating a police officer'. One woman even stopped her car & got out saying I was a disgrace  
Of course the 'polite' part of the tabard with the blue & white check on hi-viz will make people think its the police that is why it's been done.


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## Goldenstar (2 February 2013)

glamourpuss said:



			I have 1 which I will never wear again following 2 incidents with drivers who have hurled abuse at me for 'impersonating a police officer'. One woman even stopped her car & got out saying I was a disgrace  
Of course the 'polite' part of the tabard with the blue & white check on hi-viz will make people think its the police that is why it's been done.
		
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The people most likely to have committed an offence in these incidences are the two drivers .


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## Munchkins (2 February 2013)

Wow, that sounds interesting! it is always good to hear from someone close as I was under the impression they were being investigated by Trading Standards for not having the certificates and that they shouldn't have sold them at all as they did not meet the standards? That is what the Fake Britain programme came out with - maybe Equisfety should put the certificates up on there website to put there side to the story, would put everyones mind at rest


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## LynH (2 February 2013)

I bought an equisafety tabard as I liked the pockets and the fact it's adjustable. I found it either made people slow down or annoyed some (shouted abuse or screeched off) so I have coloured in the POLITE wording with a black permanent marker and it works well to slow people down without causing any obvious annoyance.  I also read some negative comments on car forums and if it annoys even one idiot into doing something dangerous to my horse or the next person they see with a POLITE hi viz on it isn't worth the risk. It's a shame they have that affect on some people as all I wanted was a hi viz with a pocket not grief from idiots.


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## wallykissmas (2 February 2013)

Jamiewillson said:



			Wrong again, its V-Bandz who is under investigation and her PLEASE chequered range it has been taken off her web site, due to a number of issues and the fact it did not pass the standard they said, she had not tested the Chequered range for the standards she states -  FACT!!
She bought jackets off a workwear company and printed on the back -  PLEASE pass wide and slow, but by law that is now classed as a different jacket and should be re-tested.

As for the Fake Britain, the woman on it models for V-Bandz, but V-Bandz has cut her off head in the photos on their web site, so people cant recognise her.
She told the BBC she was a "concerned member of the public" and forgot to tell them, she is a models and works for a competitor on their trade stand at shows.
Do you think that the BBC would of done the program after they knew that?

If any one can tell me how to put photos ups, I will prove it to you.

Trust me when I say what Ive told you is the tip of the iceberg. There is plenty more that will be offically stated shortly........ everything stated above is of written fact. 
Im sick of people slagging off Equisafety and the sooner Nicky the Director puts out a statement the better.
		
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I'm surprised that Nicky isn't a member on her riding at high level and hasn't posted to tell everyone what she thinks, she is more than happy to call people's home phones and do so, what difference does it make doing it on a forum ......


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## FionaM12 (2 February 2013)

It's not the legality which worries me. If I thought wearing one would keep me safe, I would.

My concerns have always been as others have said, drivers' reactions to them. The point of the Polite range _is_ to resemble police, just long enough to ensure cars treat you with respect. But isn't there a danger that when they realise you're trying to fool them, some drivers might take offence and, for example, race past deliberately just to make a point? There are some idiots out there!

There was a thread on the Pistonheads site (linked here) recently where one driver was actually suggesting doing this. 

Obviously it would be a small minority of idiotic drivers, but isn't it still a danger?


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## sue12345 (2 February 2013)

I find it very amusing that anyone would think a scruffy 60year old granny on a equaly scruffy coloured cob is actualy a police officer. lol.


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## McW (2 February 2013)

So hang on, I'm new to this, if you bought the v-bands chequered range what is the deal with that? Us it sub standard?


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## sodapop (2 February 2013)

I have nearly had to administer first aid to my dectective inspector husband he was laughing so much at the thought of people being arrested for impersonating a police officer because they were wearing polite hi-viz


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## Toast (2 February 2013)

Oohh, i wonder how long this thread will stick around now we've angered someone from Equisafety. 
Personally, i think they look ridiculous. And as some people have pointed out, they are counter productive, motorists just get peed off that people are trying to look like police. And nobody who has bought from the polite range can say that they didn't buy it for that reason exactly.

McW - Probably not, i expect its just rivalry between companies.. the sub standard ones are usually those doing the finger pointing


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## JenJ (2 February 2013)

Abbeygale said:



			I wanted the subscription but the zipped pockets and lightweight hi viz of the tabard was an added bonus
		
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Abbeygale said:



			Criso - that was why I liked this one - as it had nice pockets. I shall be attacking it with a marker pen dreckly 

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alainax said:



			I like the polite one as its adjustable, has a zip and has zippy pockets, found that hard to find in a tabard before. If it is true ill just be taking the polite word off the back 

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LynH said:



			I bought an equisafety tabard as I liked the pockets and the fact it's adjustable.
		
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For anyone that wants the adjustability/zip pockets etc of the equisafety jacket, without the POLITE palava, they sell a plain one. I've just ordered one from Derby House, as I love my POLITE one but do feel uncomfortable with the message.

https://www.derbyhouse.co.uk/Checkout/Product+Detail/Equisafety+Air+Waistcoat+-+Plain_320-0065.htm


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## Waffles (2 February 2013)

sue12345 said:



			I find it very amusing that anyone would think a scruffy 60year old granny on a equaly scruffy coloured cob is actualy a police officer. lol.
		
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yes, me too - me and my nearly 60 yr old granny friend (I'm nearly 49..) often get mistaken for police on our section Ds (they are 14.2 and 14.3 and mine is particularly scruffy). Thing is, I'm 5'3" and my friend is 5'1". 


Seriously though - has anyone got a link to a POLICE hi viz statement?


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## Toast (2 February 2013)

Jamiewillson said:





Toast said:



			Oohh, i wonder how long this thread will stick around now we've angered someone from Equisafety. 
Personally, i think they look ridiculous. And as some people have pointed out, they are counter productive, motorists just get peed off that people are trying to look like police. And nobody who has bought from the polite range can say that they didn't buy it for that reason exactly.

McW - Probably not, i expect its just rivalry between companies.. the sub standard ones are usually those doing the finger pointing [/


I'm not from Equisafety, I said I was good friends with them, your definitely right about the finger pointing though, I could not of said it better myself.
That woman from V-bandz has tried every dirty trick in the book. She even wrote to Aldi, complaining about the high viz they were selling because she had read in a trade magazine that Equisafety designed and manufactured. It's called Jealousy!!!!
		
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You want to be careful what you write.. wouldn't want there to be any more finger pointing resulting in the words 'slander' and 'libel' being chucked about 

Click to expand...


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## Abbeygale (2 February 2013)

Thanks for the link JenJ - possibly trying to order from that online source may cause even more trouble lol  

And Toast


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## Munchkins (2 February 2013)

[\QUOTE] I'm not from Equisafety, I said I was good friends with them, your definitely right about the finger pointing though, I could not of said it better myself.
That woman from V-bandz has tried every dirty trick in the book. She even wrote to Aldi, complaining about the high viz they were selling because she had read in a trade magazine that Equisafety designed and manufactured. It's called Jealousy!!!![/QUOTE]

I'm playing Devils Advocate here: maybe VBandz took the products off there site as it is not legal to sell it anymore? If YH calls people to tell them not to wear the POLITE stuff there must be a reason for it?

Nicky should put her side of the story so everyone can make their minds up fairly. Slagging people of on a forum is not the right way - friend, customer or otherwise   I'm just intrigued to know how this all came about


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## Waffles (2 February 2013)

Just been looking at the equisafety website and all the POLITE range is still for sale.  I know someone in the police quite well and will ask them when I see them tomorrow.


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## lachlanandmarcus (2 February 2013)

I know I read a quote from a police source in the past where it said they had no issue with the polite gear, although that was from one specific force, 

Personally I would never wear one, just as I would never be without hi viz. when on the roads I want to be the one who is seen but is also whiter than white in terms of my conduct, and felt it would be counterproductive with some drivers to 'trick' them. I'd rather save the money towards a helmet cam if things are that bad, not mislead drivers.


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## OldNag (2 February 2013)

I have been wearing a Polite tabard for a year now with no problems and no complaints from motorists. 
However, I am seriously considering changing to a plain hi viz if there is a chance it could aggravate drivers.


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## Waffles (2 February 2013)

But the POLITE range really do work in making drivers react immediately.  When I was traffic proofing my horse (before I had the POLITE stuff) I led him in hand for a few weeks - I wore a plain builder's type tabard and stuck L plates to it - most people slowed for it and understood what I was doing, some wound their windows down and chatted in the lanes etc., some idiots sped past, seemingly purposely in narrow parts of the lane.  I then bought the POLITE tabard and the change in drivers attitudes was amazing.  Lots of them would then stop, wind the window down laughing and saying "I though you were a policewoman for a minute!".


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## Pearlsasinger (2 February 2013)

glamourpuss said:



			I have 1 which I will never wear again following 2 incidents with drivers who have hurled abuse at me for 'impersonating a police officer'. One woman even stopped her car & got out saying I was a disgrace  
Of course the 'polite' part of the tabard with the blue & white check on hi-viz will make people think its the police that is why it's been done.
		
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Goldenstar said:



			The people most likely to have committed an offence in these incidences are the two drivers .
		
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Indeed and if I'd been the rider involved, I would have reported the two drivers to the poilce.  Half of the problem is that people put up with disgraceful behaviour, instead of doing something about it.


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## FionaM12 (2 February 2013)

Jamiewillson said:



			[Content Removed]
		
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You're not being much of a friend coming on here and bitching on their behalf.

Dirty washing in public come to mind.


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## Toast (2 February 2013)

FionaM12 said:



			You're not being much of a friend coming on here and bitching on their behalf.

Dirty washing in public come to mind. 

Click to expand...

*chuckle* they seem to have disappeared since i mentioned those two scary words


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## Munchkins (2 February 2013)

There's an interesting conundrum here: dislike the Police for saying POLITE is not allowed but like the Police enough to report errant drivers - it is a NO WIN situation for the Police....
Just deck yourself out in good quality hivis and be nice to those drivers that slow down and give you space  A nice smile and a little nod works wonders


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## EstherYoung (2 February 2013)

My friend runs a tack shop and has just posted this on her shop's facebook page:



			&#8206;**IMPORTANT** We have just had the police in the shop this morning advising us that anyone who rides out wearing any of the "Polite" range may be in danger of being pulled over for the offence of using police equipment (apparently anything looking like police equipment is included).

This is in response to a new police directive. The policeman has promised to print me a copy of the directive and I will be putting it on display in the shop to explain why we will no longer be selling this range. We have loads of other Hi-Viz though....
		
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Something weird is going on here......


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## YorksG (2 February 2013)

Munchkins said:



			There's an interesting conundrum here: dislike the Police for saying POLITE is not allowed but like the Police enough to report errant drivers - it is a NO WIN situation for the Police....
Just deck yourself out in good quality hivis and be nice to those drivers that slow down and give you space  A nice smile and a little nod works wonders
		
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What utter twaddle, what is being said is that people find it hard to believe that any polce force would take the stance being claimed, they are also saying that riders should report dangerous driving to the police. How is that a conundrum, unless you are terminally confused and in need of a home for the hard of thinking!


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## wallykissmas (2 February 2013)

Jamiewillson said:





Toast said:



			Oohh, i wonder how long this thread will stick around now we've angered someone from Equisafety. 
Personally, i think they look ridiculous. And as some people have pointed out, they are counter productive, motorists just get peed off that people are trying to look like police. And nobody who has bought from the polite range can say that they didn't buy it for that reason exactly.

McW - Probably not, i expect its just rivalry between companies.. the sub standard ones are usually those doing the finger pointing [/


I'm not from Equisafety, I said I was good friends with them, your definitely right about the finger pointing though, I could not of said it better myself.
That woman from V-bandz has tried every dirty trick in the book. She even wrote to Aldi, complaining about the high viz they were selling because she had read in a trade magazine that Equisafety designed and manufactured. It's called Jealousy!!!!
		
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Jealous pahhhhhhhhh get real !!! They are load of companies that do high viz, before the fingers get pointed I'm not one of them.
		
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## Ibblebibble (2 February 2013)

the 'crime' of impersonating police seems to depend entirely on the individual policeman's interpretation. i knew someone who had blue roof spotlights on his landy, he'd had other police completely ignore them but one took umbrage and booked him for it.
personally i wouldn't wear the 'polite' range as i think it looks a little sad to try and make drivers slow down because they think you are a policeman/woman


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## TheEngineer (2 February 2013)

I have had a "Polite" high viz for some time, which I use for cycling and motorcycling. My verdict....FANTASTIC!.....What surprises me about all these "Polite illegal" "Police will prosecute" posts, is that we are allegedly being led to believe by "concerned persons" that we will be at risk of prosecution if we dare to wear a high viz with the word "Polite" on it.

Now this may be a bit off the wall, but if the forces of law and order are going to prosecute, sureley they could muster up their powers of deduction and google "Equisafety", pick up the phone or send a letter and order them to withdraw their range from sale???

Now I know that crime detection comes well down their pecking order nowadays, but as Equisafety have been selling their range for several years, my powers of deduction lead me to think that this is all scare mongering by people who have been trying to sell cheap copy versions of Equisafetys range. 

I rode 15 miles today with two mobile officers behind me and I wasnt cuffed and chucked in a cell, so I would suggest that people continue to be safe and carry on wearing their kit. I certainly shall, until I have a written order from a police officer stating why this range is allegedly illegal!


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## Goldenstar (2 February 2013)

EstherYoung said:



			My friend runs a tack shop and has just posted this on her shop's facebook page:


Something weird is going on here......
		
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I agree this is wierd we do not live in a society where the police can issue directives this is not a fascist dictatorship.


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## Serephin (2 February 2013)

I shall carry on wearing mine regardless.


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## chessy (2 February 2013)

luckilotti said:



			I do chuckle sometimes when i pass riders with it, as there is no way they could even think they were pulling off the 'Mounted Police' look when they are on a 13hh pony... there is a couple locally who wear the full kit, and ride with an attitude and clearly think they are fooling drivers.....
		
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This is one of the reasons I haven't bought anything from the range... I ride a little 14.2hh cob that couldn't pass for a police horse, I don't think I'd be fooling anyone lol!


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## Toast (2 February 2013)

I have to laugh, wonder where JamieWillson went!


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## Abbeygale (3 February 2013)

Lol. I just noticed that too !!! It was rather bizarre that a "friend" of the company had so much information on top secret occurrences... And when he pmd me, all the stuff in the pm was top secret and mustn't be passed on. But then he posted all the same stuff on the thread...


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## Munchkins (3 February 2013)

I can't help wondering tho' - if this was never a "Police approved" product then this must surely be fraud? People bought it surely because of that alleged endorsement, and Equisafety made loads of ££ because of it -no different from selling bootleg DVD's or Kelvin Clien boxer-shorts in my book. Would anyone have bought it without the above "endorsement"? and, if Fake Britain allege it didn't meet the CE standard then it is doubly fraud cos it says it has been tested, but it didn't pass the test they did on it. Would you get a refund because of this? 
All very interesting - I want to know!


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## ester (3 February 2013)

I dont think it ever said police approved... 

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/397/310949.html


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## philamena (3 February 2013)

It would seem somewhat left-hand/right-hand, or at very least 'after the event' for the police to react now. Not least when individual forces have said they're OK. This quoted as being from the Northamptonshire Poilce facebook page during a previous debate like this one: 

Is it legal for people to give you the impression they are Police officers? Ive just seen tabards for Horse Riders for sale that are exact replicas of Police issue ones,except they say 'polite' not police,and riding hats with the blue and white squared band on them.Are they allowed to do that?
Like · · 3 hours ago via Mobile

Northamptonshire Police Hi Sarah, we are aware of the 'Polite' range of fluorescent clothing and a rider would not be challenged as impersonating a Police Officer for wearing this. We encourage horse riders and cyclists to wear high-vis clothing to ensure they are seen by other road users.
2 hours ago · Unlike · 2


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## Jazzy B (3 February 2013)

Personally, if they have been banned then brilliant!  The whole Polite range is just a major wind up for motorists I think and making the horse world look like a bigger bunch of idiotic toffs than already perceived by members of Joe Public not a bad thing in my opinion at all.


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## Goldenstar (3 February 2013)

Donkey said:



			Personally, if they have been banned then brilliant!  The whole Polite range is just a major wind up for motorists I think and making the horse world look like a bigger bunch of idiotic toffs than already perceived by members of Joe Public not a bad thing in my opinion at all.
		
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I have to say having met a few idiotic toffs in my time the last thing you would see them in is a hi viz jacket saying  polite.
Also nowt wrong with being idiotic or a toff must not take ourselves to seriously .


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## Tiffany (3 February 2013)

kellybee said:



			I wouldnt spend another penny with that company after the MD screamed, bellowed and swore down the phone at my mum! 

To be honest though, i think once a driver has realised its not a police jacket they'll have little or no respect for it.

Mine says "YOUNG HORSE training thanks for your patience" in bold red font. I printed it myself (its my job) and personally i think its much more polite than the "POLITE" one.
		
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Someone told me a couple of years ago that having 'young horse' or 'caution young horse' or similar was an issue? Something to do with insurance Companies saying if there's an accident you've sort of advertised the fact that horse is yound etc?

I just wear a yellow hi viz vest with nothing written on it


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## Goldenstar (3 February 2013)

Tiffany said:



			Someone told me a couple of years ago that having 'young horse' or 'caution young horse' or similar was an issue? Something to do with insurance Companies saying if there's an accident you've sort of advertised the fact that horse is yound etc?

I just wear a yellow hi viz vest with nothing written on it 

Click to expand...

The issue is it could be used for a driver to make a case that it was your horses fault the accident occurred however I asked my insurance company about it and was told it might be taken into account if you where sued but they would never use it to wriggle out of a claim .


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## Dovorian (3 February 2013)

Timely postings I have to say, only this morning I met 2 Police off road bikes on the trail of 'illegal' off roaders. Having told them where I saw the 'crims', they then complimented me on wearing good high viz, and that inclused a 'polite' tabard + ex sheet!

Having read previous posts I could have been in the cells by now as I also wore black breeches and a black coat.....!


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## glamourpuss (3 February 2013)

My friend has a brilliant one that says 'Does my bum look big in this?'
She claims it is the most effective hi-viz she's ever worn. People always slow down & smile at her


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## criso (3 February 2013)

Goldenstar said:



			might be taken into account if you where sued but they would never use it to wriggle out of a claim .
		
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Your insurance wouldn't but the driver's defence would try to get mileage out of it to show you were negligent by taking an unreliable horse on the road.

I actually quite like "Pass Wide and Slow" as it reminds drivers that may not see horses often and don't know of the highway code's recommended way to pass horses but someone posted a while back that a driver was trying to blame this when they hit something coming the other way.

And if you put "Please Pass wide and slow but only if it is safe to do so" then you're back to hiding  all the hi viz material under too much writing.


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## Goldenstar (3 February 2013)

criso said:



			Your insurance wouldn't but the driver's defence would try to get mileage out of it to show you were negligent by taking an unreliable horse on the road.

I actually quite like "Pass Wide and Slow" as it reminds drivers that may not see horses often and don't know of the highway code's recommended way to pass horses but someone posted a while back that a driver was trying to blame this when they hit something coming the other way.

And if you put "Please Pass wide and slow but only if it is safe to do so" then you're back to hiding  all the hi viz material under too much writing.
		
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That's what I said but personally I prefer blank.


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## criso (3 February 2013)

Just saw some news footage where the police horses appeared to be wearing plain yellow sheets and the police dark clothes. 

Does that mean I can't wear that combo because I look like the met mounted police?


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## Goldenstar (3 February 2013)

criso said:



			Just saw some news footage where the police horses appeared to be wearing plain yellow sheets and the police dark clothes. 

Does that mean I can't wear that combo because I look like the met mounted police?
		
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No it does not or I would have been locked up sometime ago .


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## cremedemonthe (3 February 2013)

glamourpuss said:



			My friend has a brilliant one that says 'Does my bum look big in this?'
She claims it is the most effective hi-viz she's ever worn. People always slow down & smile at her 

Click to expand...

When my friend rides her mare , she wears a hi viz tabbard with "Caution stroppy mare" written on it, it's not referring to the horse either!
Oz


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## criso (3 February 2013)

Goldenstar said:



			No it does not or I would have been locked up sometime ago .
		
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I was being a bit sarcastic as putting aside the polite/police thing, there has been a suggestion in  this thread that the police may have the monopoly on checks.


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## Goldenstar (3 February 2013)

criso said:



			I was being a bit sarcastic as putting aside the polite/police thing, there has been a suggestion in  this thread that the police may have the monopoly on checks.
		
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A suggestion on the thread does not make it the law .
You need case law, and as far as I am aware there is non if anyone knows differently it would be great to see that on the thread.


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## criso (3 February 2013)

Goldenstar said:



			A suggestion on the thread does not make it the law .
You need case law, and as far as I am aware there is non if anyone knows differently it would be great to see that on the thread.
		
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Which is why I referred to it as a suggestion and made a sarky remark about dark clothes and yellow exercise sheets being worn by the met meaning I couldn't.  

If the police do put out a statement I suspect it will be challenged  by the manufacturers and drag on a bit.


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## xxbrubblexx (3 February 2013)

I know someone that got stopped by someone that got out their car and starting shouting saying they were trying to look like police.  you're not the only one thats confuse btw i got one from equi-safety that doesnt say POLITE on it (with zipped pockets)


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## Goldenstar (3 February 2013)

I think could be forgotten that this buisness could be damaged by all this and it employs real people with real family's and that would be awful.


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## Frances144 (3 February 2013)

And on the basis of all of this, I have gone and ordered my tabard and hat band because I think it is a wonderful idea if it gets the ******s to bloody well slow down and stop trying to annihilate me and my horse!


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## mcnaughty (3 February 2013)

Serephin said:



			I shall carry on wearing mine regardless.
		
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So will I - that is until I see the news in writing somewhere other than on a Forum!


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## WelshD (3 February 2013)

I'm sure this is just sour grapes rumour spread by motorists from the fast car forums who are very embarassed that they have been caught out not knowing the difference between a muddy pony club pony and the old bill.


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## Crackerz (3 February 2013)

WelshD said:



			I'm sure this is just sour grapes rumour spread by motorists from the fast car forums who are very embarassed that they have been caught out not knowing the difference between a muddy pony club pony and the old bill.
		
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I use a handful of national car forums, quick searches on 4 of them bring nothing up regarding the polite range or impersonating a police officer. My biggest group of friends are 'fast car' drivers and have no issue either, most probably wouldn't notice what was written on them, all they care about it that we wear hi viz at all times on the road.


I will still be purchasing a POLITE tabard once i get paid next, love the look of them & not in to scare mongering


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## WelshD (3 February 2013)

There have been links from forums to other forums several times on 'POLITE' topic threads where motorists are having a rant about the range

Also working in the automotive industry I've had a fair few comments


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## criso (3 February 2013)

WelshD said:



			There have been links from forums to other forums several times on 'POLITE' topic threads where motorists are having a rant about the range
		
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I'm sure there are, I have also seen many links to motoring  forums talking about how horses shouldn't be on the road and scaring riders and how funny it is when they fall off.

Not sure it is possible to placate this minority of aggressive drivers who don't  want to  share the roads with horses (or cycles, or tractors or pedestrians etc etc )


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## rockysmum (3 February 2013)

Well its seems as though West  Yorkshire police dont like them.

Look at the comments as well as the orginal comment on this Facebook page.  Our local tack shop is stopping selling them, one comment is from a police officers wife who says her husband has been briefed on them, and another from someone about someone in our area actually being cautioned for wearing it.


It might not be accurate but I would not be paying out for any until I had proper confirmation.

http://www.facebook.com/#!/wharfedale.equestrian


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## Goldenstar (3 February 2013)

criso said:



			I'm sure there are, I have also seen many links to motoring  forums talking about how horses shouldn't be on the road and scaring riders and how funny it is when they fall off.

Not sure it is possible to placate this minority of aggressive drivers who don't  want to  share the roads with horses (or cycles, or tractors or pedestrians etc etc )
		
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Your not wrong there , nothing will change these really aggressive drivers except perhaps , 600 kilos of horse coming though their windscreen


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## ILuvCowparsely (3 February 2013)

I just brought a new one and have had many many many police cars pass me. So I do not believe they are illegal until Its actual brought into place,

 I will continue to use mine


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## amandaco2 (3 February 2013)

The morons won't find it funny when they get sued or kill someone.


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## criso (3 February 2013)

amandaco2 said:



			The morons won't find it funny when they get sued or kill someone.
		
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If they kill a person maybe, but if you kill a horse the penalties aren't so high, careless driving  or damage to property maybe.

And just another reason why horses shouldn't be on the road in their view.


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## MerrySherryRider (3 February 2013)

Donkey said:



			Personally, if they have been banned then brilliant!  The whole Polite range is just a major wind up for motorists I think and making the horse world look like a bigger bunch of idiotic toffs than already perceived by members of Joe Public not a bad thing in my opinion at all.
		
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Agree with this. I cringe everytime I see riders wearing the stuff, they look so naff.

 Plain Hi Viz (without the pseudo police look) and a well trained horse works just fine.


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## Serenity087 (3 February 2013)

They are not illegal, the only comments I've ever heard from ACTUAL police, and not wives of, cousins of, next door neighbours of the sister's dog, is in support.

I've also seen motorcyclists do up certain bikes to look like police bikes, which is a pain because a police bike is FAR more likely to pull you over at 90....

If they're illegal, so is fancy dress costume... just think about it!  Unless you're trying to arrest people, you're doing no wrong!


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## YorksG (3 February 2013)

I find it hard to believe that a police officer went into a tack shop and told them about a directive, promising to bring the print out later  I am pretty sure that if he was on duty at the time, he would have taken it with him, this just appears to me to be a wind up and rumour mongering.


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## EstherYoung (4 February 2013)

The tack shop owner is our mate and is above board. She may have not been told the whole story, but the statement that she has issued will be the situation as she understood it.


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## Blythe Spirit (4 February 2013)

glamourpuss said:



			My friend has a brilliant one that says 'Does my bum look big in this?'
She claims it is the most effective hi-viz she's ever worn. People always slow down & smile at her 

Click to expand...

 Love that! I want one of those! Having said that I wore my POLITE hi-Viz this weekend on two long rides - I did see the police as I was riding along and as usual they took no notice of me except to pass wide (and fairly) slow as usual. But they didn't stop to mention it. They have seen me often actually and have never reacted to the range in any way.


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## Goldenstar (4 February 2013)

EstherYoung said:



			The tack shop owner is our mate and is above board. She may have not been told the whole story, but the statement that she has issued will be the situation as she understood it.
		
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It's just not how the police can act in this country laws are framed then prosecutions brought the laws are tested by the courts and case law is built up on the back of the judgements taken .
If the police are acting in this way it is extremely worrying and if it happened to me I would contacting the police commissioner for the area and my MP.


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## Hippona (4 February 2013)

I rode out with my friend on saturday....who works for the police in a civilian capacity ( she is counter corruption or something)....she did tell me that there was an issue with the Polite gear...not that people were impersonating the law, but that Joe Public were mistaking riders wearing it for mounted police. Subtle difference.


That said.....anyone know where I can get a pink 'Please pass wide and slow tabard'?.......


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## Goldenstar (4 February 2013)

Hippona said:



			I rode out with my friend on saturday....who works for the police in a civilian capacity ( she is counter corruption or something)....she did tell me that there was an issue with the Polite gear...not that people were impersonating the law, but that Joe Public were mistaking riders wearing it for mounted police. Subtle difference.


That said.....anyone know where I can get a pink 'Please pass wide and slow tabard'?.......
		
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This may well be true but it's not illegal to wear something that other people mistake I know people often mistake me for a mounted police officer when I am on OH's horse because he looks just like one I wear a dark navy coat and over trousers and black hat and the horse wears a hi viz exercise sheet but I am not breaking any laws.


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## Hippona (4 February 2013)

No...sorry, didn't make myself clear....the tabards are not illegal, the issue I believe was with the company rather than the people wearing them IYKWIM.


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## cattysmith (4 February 2013)

Well I hope if they're going to be arresting horse riders for dressing up as the police then they'll be arresting small children for doing the same with their dressing up clothes too!

Just as ridiculous and unlikely to happen if you ask me.


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## monkeybum13 (4 February 2013)

Goldenstar, someone wants to talk to you 

"Equisafety -
Goldenstar from the Horse and Hound forum, please can you contact the office 
Like ·  · Share · 1 · 6 minutes ago · 

Equisafety - The office number is 0151 678 7182
5 minutes ago · Like"


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## Littlelegs (4 February 2013)

I think its really very simple. The basic law making it illegal to impersonate a police officer is already in place & not up for debate. But what constitutes impersonating a police officer is down to interpretation. As so far nobody has been prosecuted for impersonating a police officer by wearing hi-viz, we can assume it is interpreted as being acceptable. The only way to change that would be by issuing a well publicized directive, &/or judicial precedent, basically a judge in a court of law ruling polite hi-viz constituted impersonating a police officer. Not random rumours. 
  A lot of English laws are just down to interpretation, & intent. Easiest explanation would be a local by-law saying 'no dogs'. If you took a female dog in you couldn't say 'yes, but its not a dog, its a bitch' because the obvious interpretation is that the sign is meant to keep canines out, not just male dogs. Which is why fancy dress costumes are legal, because they have been interpreted as being so.


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## Suechoccy (4 February 2013)

I love my equisafety hatband and polite tabard and often wear it when hacking or leading horses on the roads.  Always get cheery waves from drivers and passing police car drivers too.   

Anything that makes us more visible on roads and that makes other road users wake out of automatic pilot is a good thing.


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## MiJodsR2BlinkinTite (4 February 2013)

Feels like someone, somewhere, needs to sort this out for good and for all!

For example, it would need some big-cheese like the BHS for instance to contact the Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) Traffic department, and find out exactly WHAT the situation is.

Until something like this happens, we'll all go on either using the stuff or not using it, as the case may be - and there will continue to be this debate.

Of course, had the company concerned done their homework properly BEFORE putting the range on the market, and consulted with the relevant authorities such as the police, it would have made far more sense wouldn't it. But obviously commercial interests were paramount.


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## Goldenstar (4 February 2013)

Littlelegs said:



			I think its really very simple. The basic law making it illegal to impersonate a police officer is already in place & not up for debate. But what constitutes impersonating a police officer is down to interpretation. As so far nobody has been prosecuted for impersonating a police officer by wearing hi-viz, we can assume it is interpreted as being acceptable. The only way to change that would be by issuing a well publicized directive, &/or judicial precedent, basically a judge in a court of law ruling polite hi-viz constituted impersonating a police officer. Not random rumours. 
  A lot of English laws are just down to interpretation, & intent. Easiest explanation would be a local by-law saying 'no dogs'. If you took a female dog in you couldn't say 'yes, but its not a dog, its a bitch' because the obvious interpretation is that the sign is meant to keep canines out, not just male dogs. Which is why fancy dress costumes are legal, because they have been interpreted as being so.
		
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Good post Littlelegs,
Everyone if you have a polite jacket and wear it continue to do so if you don't like them don't.
But what ever you do if you have a polite jacket to hack out in don't stop 
wearing it , don't risk not being seen because of a Internet rumour .


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## Pelican (4 February 2013)

1) By wearing this tabard, has an offence technically been committed?  Yes, as there is intent to deceive the public into thinking the wearer is a police officer. (if you weren't intending to look like a police officer you would wear plain hi-viz) 

2) Following on from 1) above, is the wearer likely to be prosecuted?  Unlikely, but not impossible.  

It's a grey area, no single force or police officer can give a definitive answer as the offence of impersonating a police officer is open to interpretation by the individual.  Asking one or two members of one police force and getting the answer 'well, I think it's ok and I wouldn't arrest you' does NOT mean the product is approved by all the police in the UK.

The simple facts are as above - things like 'I've worn mine for years and had no trouble with the police' do NOT mean that someone in a different area may not get spoken to about wearing theirs, and does NOT mean you won't should you be spotted by a different officer.  And just because no-one has been prosecuted yet, it does not mean there won't be a prosecution in future. 

If you are happy to accept the risks then you continue wearing it, if not then don't


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## Goldenstar (4 February 2013)

Pelican said:



			1) By wearing this tabard, has an offence technically been committed?  Yes, as there is intent to deceive the public into thinking the wearer is a police officer. (if you weren't intending to look like a police officer you would wear plain hi-viz) 

2) Following on from 1) above, is the wearer likely to be prosecuted?  Unlikely, but not impossible.  

It's a grey area, no single force or police officer can give a definitive answer as the offence of impersonating a police officer is open to interpretation by the individual.  Asking one or two members of one police force and getting the answer 'well, I think it's ok and I wouldn't arrest you' does NOT mean the product is approved by all the police in the UK.

The simple facts are as above - things like 'I've worn mine for years and had no trouble with the police' do NOT mean that someone in a different area may not get spoken to about wearing theirs, and does NOT mean you won't should you be spotted by a different officer.  And just because no-one has been prosecuted yet, it does not mean there won't be a prosecution in future. 

If you are happy to accept the risks then you continue wearing it, if not then don't 

Click to expand...

But you are making the judgement there as to what judgement would be made about intent .
Is a play on words intent to deceive  or a joke ?
Or is it factual Polite PLease slow down .
Do the police wear jackets that say please slow down I don't think so.
Where would the public interest be in the CPS spending tax payers money on a case like this nowhere I can think of.


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## Pelican (4 February 2013)

Goldenstar said:



			But you are making the judgement there as to what judgement would be made about intent .
Is a play on words intent to deceive  or a joke ?
Or is it factual Polite PLease slow down .
Do the police wear jackets that say please slow down I don't think so.
Where would the public interest be in the CPS spending tax payers money on a case like this nowhere I can think of.
		
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If there is no intent to deceive, then why wear this instead of a plain tabard?  Or a tabard that says 'Please Pass Wide and Slow' with no blue chequers - that's asking people to slow down too. 

If I were to paint my car white, put blue chequers and hi viz panels on it and then paint 'POLITE please slow down' on the boot and sides to stop people tailgating me (a very dangerous driving habit), is that also 'just a joke' or am I intending to deceive? 

What I ACTUALLY said was 'the offence of impersonating a police officer is open to interpretation by the individual'

If you take the offence of impersonation at it's most basic then it is the intent to deceive members of the public into thinking you are a police officer ("wearing a police uniform calculated to deceive" copied from CPS), so yes technically the offence has been committed.  As to whether you would then be stopped, arrested or taken to court, as I said it's down to the individual interpretation.  Mostly, prosecution is reserved for those who impersonate with intent to harm, or those who do it for financial gain.

I have said nothing about 'oh my goodness, they are illegal, everyone will get arrested!', I have merely stated that it's not as clear cut as 'they're totally illegal' or 'they are totally legal', it's a grey area open for interpretation and anyone wearing the tabards has to accept that until this goes one way or the other across the entire UK legal system, there is a potential risk to wearing one.  

Whether people do or not is up to them, but they should at least be correctly informed as to the risks in order that they may accept them, as opposed to wearing them assuming there is no risk because 'my mate on a forum said it would be fine cos they've had one for ages and had no trouble'

ETA I am also not saying that I think that prosecuting people for the wearing of these items is a good use of police time or that it should be done, just that the possibility is there for it to happen.  It's a bit like people moaning that a speed limit on a particular stretch of road is ridiculous and the police shouldn't prosecute those who travel 10mph faster as it's safe to do so in their opinion and they should be out catching real criminals - yet the fact remains that until the limit is changed, if you exceed it you are breaking the law, whether or not you get caught and whether or not you have an accident.  Ok not an exact parallel but you get the picture.


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## Goldenstar (4 February 2013)

On the other side people saying don't buy that people on the forum say its intent to impersonate a police officer could damage a company employing people with real families ,paying real mortgages and bringing up real children.
Something strange is driving these rumours .


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## Serephin (4 February 2013)

Had a lovely hack out yesterday, shock horror, wearing my Polite tabbard.  In fact, both of  us riders were wearing one.  

All motorists were polite and slowed down and received cheery waves from us.

My horse is a 15.2 extremely hairy and muddy cob.

The naysayers on this thread come across as a bit snarky really.


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## OldNag (4 February 2013)

Goldenstar said:



			On the other side people saying don't buy that people on the forum say its intent to impersonate a police officer could damage a company employing people with real families ,paying real mortgages and bringing up real children.
Something strange is driving these rumours .
		
Click to expand...

Agreed.  Something is not quite right, is it.


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## Pelican (4 February 2013)

Serephin said:



			.

The naysayers on this thread come across as a bit snarky really.
		
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I am not 'being a naysayer', I am saying quite clearly IMO that wearing an item that looks like police uniform with intent to deceive (and the intent is there) CAN BE interpreted as impersonation depending on the individual concerned.

I have made NO statements such as 'anyone wearing these WILL BE PROSECUTED'.  Just tried to politely (hah!) point out that there is a potential risk.

It's naive in the extreme to just wear it without question, whereas if you are aware that there is a risk, however small, you are then able to make an informed decision whether to wear it or not.  I've not said 'they must be banned and removed from sale' or made any judgement on anyone who chooses to wear one because it's a choice that each individual has to make.  

FWIW I considered purchasing the hat band and the tabard that just has the chequer pattern on it without the 'POLITE' bit, but as I don't generally hack out any more as my mare just isn't safe with traffic, I won't bother.

Oh and don't start with the 'lost sales' bit - Equisafety make other items as well as the POLITE range so I hardly think that a thread stating there's a potential risk with wearing these items is going to lead to them going bust and living on the streets, is it?  Anyone who goes into business has to accept that not every single person is going to be singing their praises, even massive companies like Starbucks or Ford etc have to deal with customers being 'naysayers'.


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## EstherYoung (4 February 2013)

Our tackshop mate is trying to scan the paperwork that the police gave her in for us.

I've got no gripes with either side - we spent a long time on a neighbouring tradestand to the equisafety lady at a couple of events and always found her quite reasonable with good stuff for sale (indeed I won one of her original hi hiz jackets in a competition and it lasted me for years).

I think there is something weird going on here. Either:

- There truly is a Hi-viz 'war' going on between the two 'main' hi-viz equestrian companies.
- The visit from the police at Wharfedale was just an over zealous copper (but then how does that explain Your Horse pulling their free gifts?)
- WY Police have decided they don't like the hi viz range
- Someone is on the verge of getting sued
- Somebody connected with the industry has seriously peed someone off

Any other theories anyone would like to throw into the mix?


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## OldNag (4 February 2013)

EstherYoung said:



			I think there is something weird going on here. Either:

- There truly is a Hi-viz 'war' going on between the two 'main' hi-viz equestrian companies.
- The visit from the police at Wharfedale was just an over zealous copper (but then how does that explain Your Horse pulling their free gifts?)
- WY Police have decided they don't like the hi viz range
- Someone is on the verge of getting sued
- Somebody connected with the industry has seriously peed someone off

Any other theories anyone would like to throw into the mix?
		
Click to expand...

Or a combination of. The YH thing might just be knee-jerk (risk avoidance).  All very weird though.

And I LOVE that picture on the right in your sig.  Fabulous


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## Littlelegs (4 February 2013)

It's not down to individual police officers, or even forces to decide how to interpret law. They may have the power to bring charges against someone for impersonating a police officer, assuming the cps even went through with it, but the job of actually interpreting the law to see if it was actually impersonating an officer would come down to a judge. And even then someone of average intelligence could appeal without expensive legal representation right through the court system, by which point the cps would be forced to concede due to pressure over the waste of public funds. In the UK, interpretation of law is not within the power of the police at even national level, let alone local or individual level.


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## Serephin (4 February 2013)

Pelican said:



			It's naive in the extreme to just wear it without question, whereas if you are aware that there is a risk, however small, you are then able to make an informed decision whether to wear it or not.
		
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Well, there's the rub, isn't it.  I requested one for a present having seen them talked about on here (a while ago now) - and consequently seeing that they had been approved by the police. (apparently this is not the case now)  So I wouldn't consider myself naive.

The tabbard proved quite effective, although thinking about it, the majority of road users where I ride are good any way as we are a horsey area, so difficult to ascertain if it was of any major benefit than wearing my 'normal' high vis.  Maybe I should do an experiment.

FWIW I think the risk of getting hauled up by the Fuzz is negligible and this is getting a bit hysterical (not aimed at you Pelican).  Someone has started a rumour and everyone is getting in a lather - as it seems people do these days.


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## MerrySherryRider (4 February 2013)

EstherYoung said:



			I think there is something weird going on here. Either:

- There truly is a Hi-viz 'war' going on between the two 'main' hi-viz equestrian companies.
- The visit from the police at Wharfedale was just an over zealous copper (but then how does that explain Your Horse pulling their free gifts?)
- WY Police have decided they don't like the hi viz range
- Someone is on the verge of getting sued
- Somebody connected with the industry has seriously peed someone off

Any other theories anyone would like to throw into the mix?
		
Click to expand...

It's much more simple than that. The range is designed to make the motorist on first sight, in a spilt second, to subconsciously think, 'Police/penalty points/speed check/brake.' 

Having then registered that it is not a police horse and rider, the motorist feels conned, even those who would have taken care passing the horse. It alienates responsible drivers and alienates the bad drivers and reinforces negative feelings towards horses on the road.

Riders do inconvenience other road users, so surely its better to wear plain hi viz, ride considerately and thank drivers for their patience rather than fooling them into submission ?


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## OldNag (4 February 2013)

Serephin said:



			Well, there's the rub, isn't it.  I requested one for a present having seen them talked about on here (a while ago now) - and consequently seeing that they had been approved by the police. (apparently this is not the case now)  So I wouldn't consider myself naive.
...

.
		
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Me too. I bought mine at the time when the ad wording indicated something along the lines of "Police approved".  (Can't remember what the exact wording was).  So I wasn't naive, IMO, in buying it.

I am now wondering whether I should continue wearing it.  Although I have never had problems wearing it,and have never had any negative response from drivers.  My reasons for considering ceasing to wear it are:-

a) if I might be risking alienating motorists
b) if they are going to end up "police disapproved" rather than "police approved", if you see what I mean.

I will be annoyed at having to fork out again for a jacket though, as I bought it good faith.


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## Serephin (4 February 2013)

horserider said:



			Having then registered that it is not a police horse and rider, the motorist feels conned, even those who would have taken care passing the horse. It alienates responsible drivers and alienates the bad drivers and reinforces negative feelings towards horses on the road.
		
Click to expand...

Oh c'mon, thats purely conjecture.


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## Penks (4 February 2013)

Equisafety have released a statement on their Facebook page - link below.....


https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=453082398098969&id=177348828956663


From the above link .......

"Equisafety - · 10,184 like this.
4 hours ago · ..

OFFICIAL STATEMENT.
 WITHOUT PREJUDICE.

Dear Customer.

With reference to the recent Police directive we would like to apologise for any confusion that their communication may have caused.

The POLITE range was only manufactured after this positive response by Association of Chief Police Officer (ACPO) Lead of Mounted Policing, Commander Robert Broadhurst from the Metropolitan Police who stated the following;
 Provided there is no deliberate attempt to impersonate Police there us very little we can do other than perhaps ask them to ensure the word looks more like polite than police. Assuming they have no items of police uniform it is unlikely the public will mistake them for us but if they do it will just be another High Visibility Patrol which should add to the reassurance picture. 

The law regarding this is so ambiguous as to be confusing, otherwise the new ACPO lead for the Mounted Police would not have had to interpret the law and issue new guide lines, which are at best unclear and perhaps even more confusing than ever. 

The implementation of the new guidelines is also quite irresponsible and could certainly cause riders to remove their Hi-Visibilty clothing if approached by an officer and we are also completely astounded by it.

In particular we would draw your attention to the Crime Prosecution Service (CPS) which states the following; http://www.cps.gov.uk/index.html
 Impersonating a Police Officer.
 Section 90 Police Act 1996 creates several offences to the Impersonation of Police Officers or the possession of articles of Police uniform, namely:
  Impersonating a Police Officer (including a special constable)
  Making a statement or doing any act calculated falsely to suggest membership of a Police Force
  Wearing a Police uniform calculated to deceive
  Possessing an article of Police uniform

The circumstances of the case may disclose more than one of these offences, it will seldom be necessary to charge more than one offence. You should select the most appropriate.

You should consider the motive of the defendant where the impersonation involves a threat to the safety of any person, or to property, or is done with a view to financial gain, then a prosecution should follow.
 We are not aware of a single criminal act of intent to impersonate a Police Officer in the past 3 years of selling the POLITE range.

Consider this Scenario - 
Rider cautioned whilst out hacking, 
Result -
 Rider removes HighVisibility safety apparel
 Conclusion
 Rider is now at a higher risk of a road traffic accident.


We suggest if approached by a Police Officer you explain why you need HighVisibility clothing and ask what crime they think you intend to commit.

 We categorically do not recommend you remove your HighVisibility products whilst on a public highway.
 As there have been no reported incidents of crime related to wearing Hi-Visibility clothing we have no idea why the new ACPO leader is directing officers to caution innocent members of the public?
 We would welcome any definitive solution to this issue as long as it included proper, considered communication which responsibly deals with the real issue of road safety and delivers comfort to the general public whilst satisfying the true intent of the legislation which is of course, tackling crime. 

Equisafety has always been committed to high visibility road safety and we would like to take this opportunity to thank you all for the massive support we have received so far. We can assure you that we will be seeking a more responsible approach from the Police via the relevant authorities.

Nicola Fletcher MA
 Managing Director of Equisafey Ltd"


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## Munchkins (4 February 2013)

http://www.yourhorse.co.uk/upload/33277/attachments/ACPO-letter.pdf for the official police press release


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## PandorasJar (4 February 2013)

I'm not sure I'd say that was a positive response!


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## criso (4 February 2013)

EstherYoung said:



			I think there is something weird going on here. Either:

- There truly is a Hi-viz 'war' going on between the two 'main' hi-viz equestrian companies.
- The visit from the police at Wharfedale was just an over zealous copper (but then how does that explain Your Horse pulling their free gifts?)
- WY Police have decided they don't like the hi viz range
- Someone is on the verge of getting sued
- Somebody connected with the industry has seriously peed someone off

Any other theories anyone would like to throw into the mix?
		
Click to expand...

The Police statement reads
"Over recent months a number of examples of high visibility equine apparel have been brought to my attention."

Makes me wonder if pressure has been put on police to make a judgement on this.  I would add to the theories above that motorist groups have been putting pressure on the police regarding this forcing them to take a stand.

I don't own a polite item (though I have other equisafety stuff) but there is something about this whole affair that I'm not comfortable with. Actually makes me want to go out buy some and were I to be stopped, challenge the interpretation and application  of the law.


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## Abbeygale (4 February 2013)

Equi safety's press release seems to be advising people to ignore police directives and argue the toss with a copper should they stop you!! Surely that doesn't make sense??? 

I wonder if any letters like this have been issued from any other police force?


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## Hexx (4 February 2013)

I still can't see any "clarification" from either of those statements - particularly the police one.  I have asked a friend who works for the Thames Valley Force - he's going to make some enquiries.  I will also ask our Farrier's wife who is part of the London Armed Response Unit if she's heard anything.


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## Goldenstar (4 February 2013)

criso said:



			The Police statement reads
"Over recent months a number of examples of high visibility equine apparel have been brought to my attention."

Makes me wonder if pressure has been put on police to make a judgement on this.  I would add to the theories above that motorist groups have been putting pressure on the police regarding this forcing them to take a stand.

I don't own a polite item (though I have other equisafety stuff) but there is something about this whole affair that I'm not comfortable with. Actually makes me want to go out buy some and were I to be stopped, challenge the interpretation and application  of the law.
		
Click to expand...

You and me both .


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## caseycat (4 February 2013)

I've checked back over the last 6 pages and couldn't see any mention of it, but sorry if already been said, but i just noticed         v-bandz have a statement on their home page saying they will no longer be selling them and advise to stop wearing until a solution has been found.


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## OldNag (4 February 2013)

Well, I am now wondering what to do.  I bought my tabard under the impression that it was Police approved, (whichis what their ad at the time said), it looks like it wasn't.  

I think that to play safe I am going to get a plain one but it sucks that I've spent good money on something that it could be not worth the risk of wearing.  

One thing is for sure.. I am not going go out without hi viz.


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## Pelican (5 February 2013)

I think the police statement is very clear here:

"The ultimate decision about the legitimacy of any individual product is yet to be  defined conclusively by any court, but the legal standard as enacted is an objective measure of whether the clothing worn by an individual, and/or their horse, would give the impression that that rider is a police officer when they are not. As such, any wording displayed on clothing which is similar in appearance to &#8216;POLICE&#8217; (i.e.in shape,format or font used on police uniform),even if it is spelt differently, would leave the wearer at risk of breaching the law, particularly if the other characteristics are present."

This is basically the same as what has already been said - until such time as it's been completely clarified, not one person can say 'oh, it will be fine cos I asked my mate who is a copper and s/he said it would be' or whatever else, nor can someone say 'it's definitely going to lead to you being arrested'.  

All anyone can say is that if a particular officer or force decides to interpret the wearing of these items to the exact letter of the law (wearing with intent to deceive - and anyone who wants to keep disputing the 'deceive' part, tell me why else you would be wearing it?!  The item RELIES on looking like a police officer at first glance to get the desired effect.) you _may_ be in trouble. (please note I used the word 'may', not 'will'...)

Knowing this, it's then down to the wearer as to whether they continue to wear it, or not.  Same applies to anyone looking to purchase the items - it's your choice whether to take the risk or not.

I wonder what the stance would be if the POLITE wording were removed, but the blue/silver check remained?  You can buy ex-police jackets etc on ebay (as has been mentioned already) which have no wording but do have the check bands.

The previous advertising of 'police approved' was misleading and was deemed such by the ASA, I believe that wording has now been removed but may still be hanging around on other retailers websites - Equisafety themselves no longer use it on their website, but I have seen it used on ebay adverts, for example.


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## Goldenstar (5 February 2013)

Pelican said:



			I think the police statement is very clear here:

"The ultimate decision about the legitimacy of any individual product is yet to be  defined conclusively by any court, but the legal standard as enacted is an objective measure of whether the clothing worn by an individual, and/or their horse, would give the impression that that rider is a police officer when they are not. As such, any wording displayed on clothing which is similar in appearance to POLICE (i.e.in shape,format or font used on police uniform),even if it is spelt differently, would leave the wearer at risk of breaching the law, particularly if the other characteristics are present."

This is basically the same as what has already been said - until such time as it's been completely clarified, not one person can say 'oh, it will be fine cos I asked my mate who is a copper and s/he said it would be' or whatever else, nor can someone say 'it's definitely going to lead to you being arrested'.  

All anyone can say is that if a particular officer or force decides to interpret the wearing of these items to the exact letter of the law (wearing with intent to deceive - and anyone who wants to keep disputing the 'deceive' part, tell me why else you would be wearing it?!  The item RELIES on looking like a police officer at first glance to get the desired effect.) you _may_ be in trouble. (please note I used the word 'may', not 'will'...)

Knowing this, it's then down to the wearer as to whether they continue to wear it, or not.  Same applies to anyone looking to purchase the items - it's your choice whether to take the risk or not.

I wonder what the stance would be if the POLITE wording were removed, but the blue/silver check remained?  You can buy ex-police jackets etc on ebay (as has been mentioned already) which have no wording but do have the check bands.

The previous advertising of 'police approved' was misleading and was deemed such by the ASA, I believe that wording has now been removed but may still be hanging around on other retailers websites - Equisafety themselves no longer use it on their website, but I have seen it used on ebay adverts, for example.
		
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Personally if I wore a polite jacket I can tell you categorically that I would be wearing it because I consider the wording ironic.


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## ISHmad (5 February 2013)

Mine will be being returned to Equisafety for a refund if it transpires that they are not legal.


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## criso (5 February 2013)

I don't think it is that clear and is very much open to  interpretation.

Take the following link below for fancy dress.

http://www.creativeparties.co.uk/fa...ge_title=Boys&group_ID=114&group_title=Police

The boy top centre is displaying all three elements highlighted in the statement
The colour yellow
the checkers 
In this case the actual word police

But no one would for a minute think there is any case to answer because of the context, the intent and other indicators e.g. he is under 4 foot high.

Are they saying  if you put him on a horse on a public road it becomes an offence because he is wearing those items. Of course not.

In the same way if I wore that range I would not be intending to deceive or impersonate an officer, I don't want people coming up to me and telling me about crimes.  There would be plenty of other indicators to suggest I am not a policewoman.  I would be wearing  it to attract the drivers attention, to draw their attention to you long enough to see your request to slow down and consider how they drive around my horse.  

I don't believe it would fool anyone who is concentrating and paying attention to their surroundings but someone who is already going  too fast so they do not register the full picture may momentarily be mistaken.  

The drivers that complained are only doing  so because they feel they were tricked into driving sensibly and otherwise would have driven dangerously.  This is only an issue if you only intend to drive properly only if there is a risk of being arrested.

I was bringing my horse back from hospital yesterday and spotted a police car behind me, after checking it wasn't on an emergency and I didn't need to find  somewhere to let it past, I didn't change my behaviour at all because I wasn't doing anything wrong.

As I said before the statement makes me think that pressure has been put on the police and the two most likely sources are a rival company or disgruntled motoring  groups.  I don't think either should be allowed to influence the interpretation of the law and I think that this should be challenged on that basis.

I suspect  this  will be challenged so I would suggest to anyone worried gets a bit of masking tape and covers up the word Polite,  or even reflective tape to make it even more visible.  Saves the expense and hassle of trying to return items and get a refund.  You  can take the tape off if further clarification confirms it's OK.

I would like to respectfully suggest that if even with cuts police have so much time and resources to spend on horses on the road; then it would be better spent educating drivers and applying the law strictly to those who drive dangerously around horses.

Surely safety should be the real issue not this distraction


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## criso (5 February 2013)

Pelican do you mind me asking your interest in this matter.

It just can look a bit suspicious when someone joins HHO to  post on a single thread and makes me wonder if they have some connection.

In the same way as many people asked a similar poster earlier on if  he had a connection with Equisafety.


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## webble (5 February 2013)

Personally I think there are better options on the market at a better price anyway. 

Police horses arent that commonly seen so its not that likely that at first glance someone would think you are police anyway so having polite notice on you just sounds odd (and a bit daft IMHO)


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## webble (5 February 2013)

horserider said:



			It's much more simple than that. The range is designed to make the motorist on first sight, in a spilt second, to subconsciously think, 'Police/penalty points/speed check/brake.' 

Having then registered that it is not a police horse and rider, the motorist feels conned, even those who would have taken care passing the horse. It alienates responsible drivers and alienates the bad drivers and reinforces negative feelings towards horses on the road.

Riders do inconvenience other road users, so surely its better to wear plain hi viz, ride considerately and thank drivers for their patience rather than fooling them into submission ?
		
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Completely agree with this


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## Pelican (5 February 2013)

criso said:



			In the same way if I wore that range I would not be intending to deceive or impersonate an officer, I don't want people coming up to me and telling me about crimes.  There would be plenty of other indicators to suggest I am not a policewoman.  I would be wearing  it to attract the drivers attention, to draw their attention to you long enough to see your request to slow down and consider how they drive around my horse.  

I don't believe it would fool anyone who is concentrating and paying attention to their surroundings but someone who is already going  too fast so they do not register the full picture may momentarily be mistaken.
		
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Normal hi-viz without the 'imitiation copper' stuff on it will do exactly the same thing.  The ONLY difference is that with the polite clothing, people will think it is 'police' at first glance.  From 5 yards away, it's clear but not from 50 yards away!  

And Criso, my 'interest' in this is road safety.

Wear it, or don't wear it and that is down to personal choice at the moment - if the wearer thinks it worth the risk that's fine, equally if they don't, that's fine too.  

Road safety is a HUGE passion of mine (I tutor advanced driving) and I am closely involved with the road safety partnership in my area and with that comes working with the police and fire service, talking to people at road safety events, testing their reaction times etc etc.  Knowing what I know about road safety and driver attitudes, I do not believe for one minute that these tabards are overall any more or less effective than bog standard hi viz if you spread the driver reactions over time.  

If you took a random quantity of drivers passing horses, then you will always get those who are considerate (in which case it doesn't matter what you're wearing), those who are less so but through ignorance, those who are impatient and then those who are downright dangerous.  

Once drivers know that these items of clothing are not 'the real deal', they are not going to act any differently.  The range relies on that perception to slow down the ignorant, impatient and careless/dangerous drivers - to make them think there is a reason to slow down (that "ooops, it's a copper" reaction) as opposed to just a horse and rider.  If one of the dangerous types passes a horse and rider wearing it, slows and then realises they've been duped, their mindset is usually such that next time they pass the same rider or even a different one wearing the clothing they will behave no differently to normal which usually involves passing too close and too fast.

Maybe, if the companies that made these ranges were to instead work with their local BHS and road safety teams that would have more impact on horse and rider safety on the roads.

ETA I'm a road user in 4 different ways - with my horse, as a driver, a cyclist and also as a motorcyclist.  Since I've been involved with road safety work, I've begun to realise that attitude is often the biggest part of the problem.  Different road users rarely have respect for one another, each believing their rights are greater than the others.  I wish I knew the answer to how to fix it!


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## Munchkins (5 February 2013)

Two things spring to mind:
1/ V-Bandz did not claim the range was Police Approved - Equisafety did, V-Bandz offer a remedy - Equisafety aren't. In fact, Equisfety appear to be positively encouraging riders to go out wearing it - which is irresponsible given the Directive that has been issued. Do I sue Equisafety if I now have a problem wearing my Polite products? 

2/ This could turn into something positive if it opens a debate into safety issues with horses and traffic. Just because the chequered stuff has worked doesn't mean nothing else does. Surely now is the right time to encourage discussion and awareness? More than the "Think Horse" campaigns might have ever hoped to achieve.
Instead of moping about the "lost" opportunity to pretend to be Police - let's put our heads together and work on a solution!


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## Pelican (5 February 2013)

Munchkins said:



			2/ This could turn into something positive if it opens a debate into safety issues with horses and traffic. Just because the chequered stuff has worked doesn't mean nothing else does. Surely now is the right time to encourage discussion and awareness? More than the "Think Horse" campaigns might have ever hoped to achieve.
Instead of moping about the "lost" opportunity to pretend to be Police - let's put our heads together and work on a solution!
		
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Well said Munchkin!


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## scarymare (5 February 2013)

Never heard of V-Bandz.

Looks like they've got a couple of PR 'foals' on here though.

FFS!


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## teapot (5 February 2013)

I'm torn over the whole thing, primarily because I spend so much of my time in London and regularly see both the Met and City police on mounted patrols and their jackets are distinctly different - the checkers are in the wrong place for a start. 

But I guess so few people see mounted police these days they would probably immediately think it was the police...


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## MerrySherryRider (5 February 2013)

Why do the polite fans think there's a conspiracy theory ? The product is naff, the company are basically just giving riders instructions on how to talk to police if they are stopped, which is pretty shabby, given that they have received a directive stating the police's position on the range.

The bottom line is, that Equisafety are on a money spinner and don't want to stop making the stuff.
 They are seemingly quite happy for their customers to wear a product that might get them in trouble with the law.

And, why does anyone think they are safer looking like a pretend police rider when in reality, if they are wearing good quality normal hi viz, and can be seen, motorists will try not to run them down. Ok, it may only be because they don't want to dent their cars or be held up in an RTA, but ordinary Hi Viz does the job, otherwise, the highways agency H&S dept would be issuing council road workers with fake police hi viz too.


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## Fluffy bunny (5 February 2013)

Stopped wearing mine months ago, plain hi viz for me now.


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## HHO admin (5 February 2013)

Just for info, the situation resulting from the guidance issued by the Association of Chief Police Officers is one of our lead news stories in this Thursday's Horse & Hound magazine, so to get the full story and find out how this affects you, don't miss the magazine.


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## Munchkins (5 February 2013)

Scary Mare - V-Bandz were the original hi-viz company making kit for riders well before Equisafety started (though they will try and tell you otherwise - check the records at Companies House)  and no - I don't work for them or have shares... it has nothing to do with PR and everyone has their own favourite - just want to be fair and see both sides to a story which could be turned into a really positive situation where all can benefit for the sake of safety. 

What makes me laugh is the fact that people have bought this stuff because it "makes me look like the Police" and yet they don't want to follow a Police Directive. Double standards if you ask me.

Personally I feel the blue/silver chequered tape should be used for Emergency Services (Police) only - for the sake of clarity and public safety.


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## fburton (5 February 2013)

Pelican said:



			Road safety is a HUGE passion of mine (I tutor advanced driving) and I am closely involved with the road safety partnership in my area and with that comes working with the police and fire service, talking to people at road safety events, testing their reaction times etc etc.
		
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Good for you! I'd like advanced driving courses to be mandatory. If they are such a good idea, surely all drivers could benefit leading to safer roads for all.


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## Goldenstar (5 February 2013)

Munchkins said:



			Scary Mare - V-Bandz were the original hi-viz company making kit for riders well before Equisafety started (though they will try and tell you otherwise - check the records at Companies House)  and no - I don't work for them or have shares... it has nothing to do with PR and everyone has their own favourite - just want to be fair and see both sides to a story which could be turned into a really positive situation where all can benefit for the sake of safety. 

What makes me laugh is the fact that people have bought this stuff because it "makes me look like the Police" and yet they don't want to follow a Police Directive. Double standards if you ask me.

Personally I feel the blue/silver chequered tape should be used for Emergency Services (Police) only - for the sake of clarity and public safety.
		
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Personally I would have bought one because I think the play on words Is hilarious .
I can't think what when each company started trading has to with any thing .
Personally I think the blue and white chequers on the exercise sheets break up the colour blocks a make them even more eye catching and what you personally feel is great for you but I cant see how having an exercise sheet with checkers on has any bearing at all on public safety or clarity.


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## terrierliz (5 February 2013)

ISHmad said:



			Mine will be being returned to Equisafety for a refund if it transpires that they are not legal.
		
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Ditto this - had the waistcoat since they came out and got the aspey jacket as a Christmas present.  Have never had a bad reaction from other road users....


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## caseycat (5 February 2013)

I think the main point we need to remember is that the reason we wear hi-vis is to draw attention to ourselves and our horses, so that other road users see us in plenty of time. As long as it is eye catching from as far away as possible then wear whatever brand or non-brand you are happy with as keeping safe is the priority for us all.


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## JJones (5 February 2013)

"Mine will be being returned to Equisafety for a refund if it transpires that they are not legal."

You'll be lucky getting anything back from that company. 

Personally I didn't like the polite range from the start. When I see riders wearing it I cringe. Who on earth are going to believe your average horse & pony out there are going to be mistaken for police officers!? 
I'm all for high viz & I wear my equisafety hi viz. but I'd never buy from that disgraceful company again once it falls apart (more than the products already have!)


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## Floxie (6 February 2013)

I think they actually annoy a lot of road users, too - can't remember why (random link from here I think) but saw someone mention "those bloody Polite outfits" on a car forum - and thinking about it, yeah, I can kinda see why that would wind some types up.

I was really surprised these were legal when I first saw them, and even more so when I saw how popular and unquestioned they were. I'm used to them now - but not totally surprised there may be issues. More surprised it's taken so long!

I don't think anyone believes your kid on a pony is with the police, but it is that reaction we all have - even if we're doing nothing wrong, you catch sight of the uniform and make damn SURE you're doing nothing wrong! So that's a good response - but I can also see some types reacting badly when they realise they were fooled, no matter how momentarily - that's the sort who's going to charge past you waving fingers, and I probably prefer stupid over angry


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## OldNag (6 February 2013)

I wonder if Equisafety would swap my Polite tabard for a plain one? Worth asikng ...


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## fburton (6 February 2013)

Floxie said:



			I think they actually annoy a lot of road users, too - can't remember why (random link from here I think) but saw someone mention "those bloody Polite outfits" on a car forum - and thinking about it, yeah, I can kinda see why that would wind some types up.
		
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'Some types' is right. However, I'm not sure that car forum members should be considered typical of _most_ car drivers. In my (admittedly limited) experience, they tend to be the brash, cantakerous, grumpy, Clarkson-wanabe sort - for want of a better phrase, automobile supremacists. I'm not sure why they would want to be actively posting members if it were otherwise.


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## ester (6 February 2013)

TBF I decided not to get one myself as I thought I'd be a bit peeved if someone had played with my head like that.... even though obviously I am the sort that would slow down for horses anyway.


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## surreygirl17 (6 February 2013)

There really shouldn't be an issue with drivers mistaking POLITE FOR POLICE and so there shouldn't be an issue with impersonating the police. Also, police chequers are black and white not blue and white as on the polite range.

The size of the font is such that drivers should be able to read it from a certain distance (20m?), if they have eyesight that complies with DVLA rules, and should therefore know that is says polite not police.  So if a driver can't tell the difference, maybe they shouldn't be on the road.

I've never had anyone shout abuse at me for wearing my tabard from the Polite range.  I'm going to continue wearing it on the roads whilst riding my hairy, muddy section D until told not to!


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## Kat (6 February 2013)

ester said:



			TBF I decided not to get one myself as I thought I'd be a bit peeved if someone had played with my head like that.... even though obviously I am the sort that would slow down for horses anyway.
		
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Me too. 

Plus in our county there is no mounted police branch so I doubt that they are effective in the slightest as people simply don't see the police on horseback so wouldn't be fooled for a minute. 

Personally I very much doubt that there will be a prosecution relating to this unless there is some kind of aggravating factor. I just can't see there being any public interest in the police or CPS utilising resources to deal with such a matter. It is more likely that this will be resolved between the manufacturer and trading standards and that the items will either disappear from the shops or be redesigned. 

There seem to be a lot of retailers reporting similar approaches from the police though, it seems to be resembling an internet hoax chain email thing as the reports are so similar. Even down to the policeman agreeing to pop back with a print out which as someone pointed out above doesn't seem a likely story. It would be interesting for some of the retailers to report which force this is and to verify the visit with a senior officer, I wonder whether there is something fishy about all this. I hope all the retailers concerned took the name and collar number of the officer in question.


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## Hexx (6 February 2013)

If you wanted a refund, I would guess you would need to go back to the retailer and ask them to refund you, the retailer would then request a refund from Equisafety.  I bought the exercise sheet a few weeks ago, but only used it twice - I doubt my tack shop would take it back, but it's not as heavily branded as the tabard, so I might get away with using it.

Looking at Equisafety's Facebook page, there were some queries from retailers about the range as some had large stocks and didn't know whether they were going to able to sell it - I think the stock answer from Equisafety was "we'll let you know".


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## Kat (6 February 2013)

Hexx said:



			If you wanted a refund, I would guess you would need to go back to the retailer and ask them to refund you, the retailer would then request a refund from Equisafety.  I bought the exercise sheet a few weeks ago, but only used it twice - I doubt my tack shop would take it back, but it's not as heavily branded as the tabard, so I might get away with using it.

Looking at Equisafety's Facebook page, there were some queries from retailers about the range as some had large stocks and didn't know whether they were going to able to sell it - I think the stock answer from Equisafety was "we'll let you know".
		
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If you only have the exercise sheet why not wear it but combine it with a pink or orange tabard with no wording or checkerboarding and maybe a pink or orange hat cover/hat band makes you look sufficiently different from the police to ensure there is no risk of confusion and if you were ever stopped you could say that you had taken steps to ensure you wouldn't be mistaken for the police. 

Those with the tabards, cover the wording with plain reflective tape and add some pink or orange hi-viz (hat band, leg wraps, exercise sheet, arm bands etc) then you only have 1 element of "police type uniform" which is the checkerboard and would be unlikely to cause confusion. 

The police statement on the thread in News specifically refers to there being three elements that go together to make the police uniform. 
1. wording (the polite wording is clearly a problem as it is intended to look like police)
2. Use of exclusively hi-viz yellow
3. checkerboard

If all three elements are not present then you are unlikely to get into difficulty.

ETA mixing reflective colours gives maximum visibility in all conditions so go for a bit of pink, a bit of yellow and some orange and be extra safe.


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## criso (6 February 2013)

Pelican said:



			Normal hi-viz without the 'imitiation copper' stuff on it will do exactly the same thing.  The ONLY difference is that with the polite clothing, people will think it is 'police' at first glance.  From 5 yards away, it's clear but not from 50 yards away!
		
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I would suggest that if a driver needs to be 5 yards away then they are either going much too fast or have a problem  with their eyesight.

The latter could well be the case though as in my experience "Please pass wide and slow" clearly can be misread as "please drive as fast and close as you possibly can, and if you could rev and beep your horn that would be helpful too"


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## ester (6 February 2013)

The trouble is that the mind often completes words given the other information around it/ can make sense of nonsense sentences by adding them etc. So no, it isn't just a question of eyesight.


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## mashnut (6 February 2013)

ester said:



			The trouble is that the mind often completes words given the other information around it/ can make sense of nonsense sentences by adding them etc. So no, it isn't just a question of eyesight.
		
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That's how most road signs work. It was part of the reason they don't have them all in capitals. Our brains complete town and city names faster that way.

Lets be honest - I don't know of anyone who didn't buy it without thinking for a moment "It'll make me look like a mounted officer, that'll slow people down".
So yes by thinking that you are impersonating an officer (even if you aren't performing a stop-n-search with horses like I watched on Saturday night in Glasgow!).


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## lilacjackie (6 February 2013)

I have started a new thread but just in case no one reads it, I have received an email from equisafety today and the contents are:
http://www.highvisibility.uk.com/CampaignProcess.aspx?A=View&Data=3CtvUU02jXWs6jnkcMYYRA==

Interesting point.


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## shellonabeach (6 February 2013)

Kat said:



			Me too. 

Plus in our county there is no mounted police branch so I doubt that they are effective in the slightest as people simply don't see the police on horseback so wouldn't be fooled for a minute. 

Personally I very much doubt that there will be a prosecution relating to this unless there is some kind of aggravating factor. I just can't see there being any public interest in the police or CPS utilising resources to deal with such a matter. It is more likely that this will be resolved between the manufacturer and trading standards and that the items will either disappear from the shops or be redesigned. 

There seem to be a lot of retailers reporting similar approaches from the police though, it seems to be resembling an internet hoax chain email thing as the reports are so similar. Even down to the policeman agreeing to pop back with a print out which as someone pointed out above doesn't seem a likely story. It would be interesting for some of the retailers to report which force this is and to verify the visit with a senior officer, I wonder whether there is something fishy about all this. I hope all the retailers concerned took the name and collar number of the officer in question.
		
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On another forum I have seen a scanned copy of the document given to an Equestrian retailer, it has the officers name and badge number on it and is specifically titled "Police guidance to manufacturers and retailers of equine clothing that closely resembles police uniform"


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## Zoobie (6 February 2013)

Im going to carry on wearing mine. Just as some motor bike riders ride round on motor bikes that have the blue and silver checks on them and recovery vehicles and cash in transit vans are marked up likewise.


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## cm2581 (6 February 2013)

I have just emailed my local police force (Lothian & Borders) for clarification on the matter within this area. If they say it's ok, I will print out and carry the email with me at all times I'm wearing it. If they say not ok, well it's going in the bin which is a great pity as it really does work!! Maybe this is what everyone should do and then there is no more hearsay and various interpretations!


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## Kat (6 February 2013)

cm2581 said:



			I have just emailed my local police force (Lothian & Borders) for clarification on the matter within this area. If they say it's ok, I will print out and carry the email with me at all times I'm wearing it. If they say not ok, well it's going in the bin which is a great pity as it really does work!! Maybe this is what everyone should do and then there is no more hearsay and various interpretations!
		
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No need whatsoever to bin stuff. That is just an over the top knee jerk reaction. 

Just make yourself look different by modifying the hi-viz and/or accessorising it. 

Cover the polite wording and wear at least one item of non-yellow hi-viz and the police would have a hard time arguing that there was any possibility of confusion. You could even use reflective tape to cover the checkerboard if you are really worried.


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## surreygirl17 (6 February 2013)

Whatever you do, DO NOT STOP WEARING HI-VIS even when not on your horse

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ing-high-visibility-jacket.html#axzz2K3tSS6S4


Nasty insurance company, but a word of warning to us all!


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## Pelican (6 February 2013)

surreygirl17 said:



			Whatever you do, DO NOT STOP WEARING HI-VIS even when not on your horse

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ing-high-visibility-jacket.html#axzz2K3tSS6S4


Nasty insurance company, but a word of warning to us all!
		
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Pedestrians SHOULD wear hi-viz, especially on a narrow unlit road.  Saying that they shouldn't have to puts the entire onus on the driver which is often unrealistic.  We all have a responsibility for our own safety - if I'm walking an unlit road at night, I don't want putting my safety in someone else's hands and be relying on a driver being able to see me with no hi-viz on - that driver could be not paying attention, or fiddling with the radio or just plain not see me in time.

I have passed my RoSPA advanced test, widely recognised as the most challenging and comprehensive advanced driving test you can take as a civilian - the test itself is carried out by serving or retired police officers.  And yet I can still be 'surprised' (for want of a better word) by an invisible pedestrian at night, despite being aware there could be one around any corner on any stretch of road.  

For me or any other driver to be completely safe and guaranteed not to hit someone who is walking in the road, in the dark with no hi-viz I'd have to travel around 30mph/40mph (I actually generally do 40mph on unlit A roads at night, and much much less on narrow lanes, 20mph or less most of the time)  Even on a long straight, the pedestrian wouldn't come into your view in your headlights until they were about 45m away which may not be enough time to stop - and this is why:

Doing 50mph on an unlit road at night is actually pretty unsafe - at 50mph it takes you on average 53meters to stop.  

Dipped headlights will only illuminate up to around 45meters clearly (although you'll have some light up to around 60meters) - given you should be able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear, obviously 50mph is too fast.  

With full beam on, illumination is up to around 150meters but obviously the further from the car, the weaker the light and dark items stilll won't be as clear to see as reflective ones.  If cars are coming toward you, it's hard to see past them because of the glare from their headlights, which cuts your forward visibility again.  Yet how many people slow down when a car is coming towards them?

So in this case, yes most of the blame is on the driver from what I know of the situation, but wearing hi-viz could have helped her avoid being hit by making her visible to this idiot a bit earlier.


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