# Council ''steal'' and rehome pony



## Cuffey (1 February 2010)

If the Daily Record facts are correct Renfrewshire Council have stolen and re-homed a pony--you need to register to comment

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/life/consum...86908-22008719/


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## caramac1988 (1 February 2010)

This is near me I remember Reading this in the paper ages ago apparently the lady wasn't paying her rent and all the people that owned the horses didn't bother doing anything about it still shocking that they won't give her the pony back


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## MHOL (1 February 2010)

Thanks Cuffey, we are onto it, if you contact the owner get her to contact us.


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## flyingfeet (1 February 2010)

Surely the owner can now take the council to court for theft, handling stolen goods, possibly dual passporting a pony?

I can understand them seizing the ponies from the tenant that was not paying, but if the pony does not belong to them then they need to account for their actions. 

Having said that - there would have been notices put up by the council, so was pretty naive to keep the pony there when notice had been served.


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## Mithras (1 February 2010)

Appalling.  Admittedly we don't know all the facts behind the case, but the fact remains that only the owner of goods can pass on a good and full title to a new owner.  Someone who acquires goods (and that includes livestock) from someone who does not possess a good title will only become owner subject to those deficiencies of title.  The true owner remains Tracey and she will always be entitled to have her property returned to her.

It sounds as if the Council's dispute is with the livery yard owner and even if they had a right of lien written into their contract of lease of the livery premises, this would not entitle them to seize property belonging to a third party.

I can only assume for some unknown reason the police are refusing to act - I see the owner's partner is a police officer.  It is not a civil matter; it is theft, however the pony's owner would be entitled to go to court to enforce the return of her property, damages and costs.

Unfortunately councils in Scotland act ultra vires (outwith their powers) all the time - they behave like little Soviets.  It is incredibly hard to do anything about it, other than going to court, because their complaints procedures are internal and the public services ombudsman procedure is incredibly slow and toothless.


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## MHOL (1 February 2010)

On researching there is more to this, but there cannot still be two passports and so Tracey will always remain the legal owner.


Animal lovers move in to save horses as stables bosses are evicted

Dec 11 2009 by Jeff Holmes, Paisley Daily Express

Animal lovers move in to save horses as stables bosses are evicted

JUBILANT animal lovers scored a major victory yesterday when they helped rescue doomed horses from a Renfrewshire livery yard.

The animals were spared the death penalty when Renfrewshire Council workers, the Scottish Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (SSPCA) and police acted on an eviction order granted by Paisley Sheriff Court.

In October the Paisley Daily Express revealed the majestic beasts were in real danger of being destroyed unless their owners could be traced.

The operators of KL Liveries-Woodside Liveries, Barhill Road, Erskine, blocked attempts by the council to contact the horses owners in the wake of a series of complaints from the public.

The eviction finally took place yesterday morning and around 20 people, including horse lovers, turned up at the site.

Two police officers were among those present but no one from KL Liveries showed face.

Before council workers could even start to get the horses out, they had to clear debris that was blocking a path to the field, and a huge pair of bolt cutters was used to crack open a padlock on a gate to get in.

Concerned animal lovers then moved in and helped rescue the group of sorry-looking horses and ponies.

A fleet of horse trailers was parked at the bottom of the dirt track and the animals were quickly loaded up and taken to safety.

One council official praised the Express for helping to highlight the horses plight and told us: The object of this operation is to remove these horses to a place of safety.

A number of people registered their interest in helping out by taking a horse after reading your story in the Express. It did so much good and were seeing the fruits of that this morning.

One woman from Bishopton rescued a sad-looking brown horse and promised that he would be better looked after where he was going.

She didnt want to give her name for fear of reprisals, but said: My family used to keep horses up at KL Liveries, but we took them out because we didnt think they were being properly looked after.

When I read in the Express that this was happening I was only too happy to come down and do my bit.

Another woman, who also asked not to be named, added: One of the horses weve taken is between 20 and 30 years old.

It will now get proper care and attention, which I doubt wouldve happened had he remained in that field.

One man claimed there have been problems at the stables for years. He said: This isnt just a recent problem.

There have been reports of horses being treated inappropriately for a couple of years now. Im glad something has finally been done about it.

Tom Gatherer, deputy chairman of the Scottish SPCA said: This is a civil matter being dealt with by the police and local authority and weve provided advice.


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## MHOL (1 February 2010)

ALLS FOR ACTION AGAINST SHAMED 'RIDING SCHOOL'

Profile by Angela Murphy

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Image related to story 390375, see caption or article text

CLAIMS: The stables have had their lease and license revoked.

A DISGRACED Erskine riding school is once again at the centre of controversy.

Woodside Riding Centre had its lease and licence revoked by Renfrewshire Council amid a string of animal neglect and malpractice claims.

However its owners have refused to budge, causing local animal lovers to grow increasingly concerned.

An Erskine man who asked to be named, blasted: "The field where the horses are covered in ragwort. It looks like nice yellow flowers, but in fact it's poisonous to horses. And what would happen if a kid picks a bit of it up?

"They should be off the land as soon as possible - they've brought nothing but misery to animal lovers in Erskine.

"Even if a new owner comes in, it would take about a year to clear the ground of the stuff. There is no water in the fields either."

Another source captured an image of a horse cowering under a dilapidated shelter within the grounds.

He said: "Looking at it you will appreciate that if such a structure were within public reach it would be fenced off and declared a dangerous structure. Although the animals have decent looking accommodation to the front of the premises, they make use of the access to this building to the rear when roaming free on the fields.

A Renfrewshire Council spokesperson said: "Woodside/KL Liveries no longer has a valid licence to operate a riding school or a valid lease for this premises.

"The Council are taking the appropriate steps to address the situation and we will continue to respond to any complaints regarding the premises."

The SSPCA confirmed they are aware of the complaints.


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## MHOL (1 February 2010)

Published: Wednesday, 28th October, 2009 5:11pm
Hunt is on for horse owners

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Image related to story 393435, see caption or article text

APPEAL: The disgraced riding school in Erskine.

RENFREWSHIRE Council have launched an appeal to find the owners of 10 horses so a disgraced riding school can finally be evicted.

KL Liveries/Woodside Riding School have refused to vacate the premises since their lease was terminated in May.

An eviction decree was granted by Paisley Sheriff Court on Friday, October 2, but the eviction cannot take place as horses are still on the land.

The operators have blocked attempts to contact the horses' owners so the council and the SSPCA have launched a joint appeal to find them.

If new homes are not found for the animals they may need to be put down.

Councillor Marie McGurk, Convener of Renfrewshire Council's Environment and Infrastructure Policy Board, said: "This is an incredibly difficult situation and we are trying to resolve this is in the best possible way.

"The owners of KL Liveries are well aware of the situation but have been uncooperative in leaving the premises or making alternative arrangements for the animals.

"They should be contacting the owners of the horses directly.

"The situation has been going on for a long time and has caused concerned among the local community.

"We are appealing for anyone who owns one of these horses or anyone who may be in a position to offer these horses a home to come forward to the council as quickly as possible."

The SSPCA has been working closely with the council but the charity does not have the space or facilities to take the horses.

They are currently looking for another animal welfare association who can provide assistance.

Scottish SPCA Deputy Chief Superintendent Tom Gatherer said, "This is a very sad situation, which could have been avoided had the operators of KL Liveries given proper consideration to the welfare of the horses in their care.

"Anyone who is still using KL Liveries to provide a livery service for their horse should come forward and claim their horse back immediately.

"Any unclaimed horses will become the property of the council, who are within their rights to recoup costs from any owners who wish to have their horses returned to them at a later date.

"The council also has the option to sell the horses or seek alternative accommodation for them.

"The Scottish SPCA will continue to provide advice and assistance to the council where required and we would urge that the option of putting animals to sleep is only considered as a last resort before all other avenues are exhausted."

Anyone who owns a horse at KL Liveries, or knows someone who owns one of these horses or any organisation who may be able to offer a home for one of these horses is asked to contact Renfrewshire Council's Estates Section 0141 842 5476.


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## Cuffey (1 February 2010)

Thanks for those MHOL
Looks like people had notice and ignored it
The Daily Record story reads that the YO kept saying to liveries not to worry she owned the land


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## MHOL (1 February 2010)

What ever the mess is the council cannot rehome the horse, the legal owner can only be Tracey, so long as she has the receipt and her passport is up to date, would like to know what happens in this case.


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## xnaughtybutnicex (1 February 2010)

Is it something that comes with having power that makes people complete f*ckwits? Honestly it's terrible but I doubt the council have a leg to stand on - she should have the pony back already. Can you call the police when the council steal your horse?


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## Rollin (1 February 2010)

So the Council took it upon themselves to transport horses without their passports - and the police helped them?  They then re-homed them without passports? or did they sell them without passports?


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## xnaughtybutnicex (1 February 2010)

[ QUOTE ]
So the Council took it upon themselves to transport horses without their passports - and the police helped them?  They then re-homed them without passports? or did they sell them without passports? 

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought the council said they liased with the SSPCA not the police? Sounds that the council just did something very much illegal, doesn't it?? Doubt they will get in much trouble for it, though.


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## Luci07 (1 February 2010)

What am I missing? the first lines look like the council sold a horse to pay off a debt belonging to a tenant even though the horse did not belong to said tenant but all the articles afterwards state that this was a rescue case? which is it?


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## russianhorse (3 February 2010)

[ QUOTE ]
What am I missing? the first lines look like the council sold a horse to pay off a debt belonging to a tenant even though the horse did not belong to said tenant but all the articles afterwards state that this was a rescue case? which is it? 

[/ QUOTE ]


Im confused too


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## WishfulThinker (3 February 2010)

So, the yard was in disrepair, the horses neglected and the YO was there illegally as the license  - and therefore it seems their tennancy was revoked. 

So the council eveict them all, but at the same time it was a 'rescue of the horses who were packed off to rescue home and charities. 

However some of these horses were not owned by the riding/livery school owner - so they were owned by 3rd parties. 

They way I see it then, all the 3RD party animals are technically, taken illegally unless they are neglected. 

I hope the council or someone has photos of these neglected animals so they can say which is which.


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## russianhorse (3 February 2010)

Call me stupid (although I'd rather you didnt  
	
	
		
		
	


	




 ) but shouldnt the 3rd party owners collected their horses before the eviction?  The eviction wouldnt have been an overnight thing


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## samxmckeek (3 February 2010)

this eviction was supposed to happen in may 2009 the stable owners had many warnings to tell the owners about it they finally were evicted in october from the yard bit but then moved to a top field that the stable owner claimed to own. there was only 3 liveries there one of the liveries horses got lifted by the police because it was out all the time wreaking peoples gardens etc the other liverie moved there horse the night before the eviction so this woman obvisly knew about the eviction but chose to ignore it.The stable owner claimed there was no passport, receipts for the horses so the council had no option to rehome them without them and passports are not proof of ownership. the council still have all the newspaper articles about looking for the ponies owners the court dercree the eviction notices the revelent paper work and the letters that were sent tp the stable owners so technically if this goes to court the council will have lots of evidence and yes the police were present at the final eviction.


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## samxmckeek (3 February 2010)

Also on the eviction notices it said something along the lines of any livestock, belongings etc found to be upon the councils property on the 11th decmber 2009 will become property of the council. Also the day of the eviction all the new owners appeared and signed a thing about how they will become the new owners something the council got from court and people who knew the horses gave everyone a piece of paper with all horses names on it and a bit about them and cheyennes name was on it says she was a 3yo and in foal


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## Cuffey (3 February 2010)

Thanks for all extra info
3yo and in foal HMMMMM and been on ragwort but still her pony as only she can give title surely!!


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## samxmckeek (3 February 2010)

yeh said on the paper that was handed out that shes in foal and you could tell a mile away. well the court did give them the court decree which said any horses left on the property by the eviction date then belonged to them and the council could either sell or rehome them and they all got rehomed to knowlegable people.


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## KarynK (5 February 2010)

NB a passport is not proof of ownership, in fact it should say that in the passport.

The passport must remain with the horse and is only to ensure that the animal has not had drugs administered to it that would mean it was unfit for human consumption.  It is not illegal to have a duplicate passport raised for an animal which will immediately be taken out of the food chain.

It is for the courts to decide who the owner is and providing that the animal has been seized legally as goods in lieu of debts through a legal process, then the council is within its rights.


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## sharmie (6 February 2010)

Hi. I work at the farm that this horse is currently being stabled at and I can tell you that when she came in, I have never seen a horse looking so poorly. She had been very badly neglected and had numerous health complaints and was badly malnourished/dehydrated. This story doesn't even take into account that the Pony is in-foal. I don't understand how the papers could be so misinformed with regards this horse. The previous owner has seriously misled everyone. She had numerous opportunities to remove her horse from Woodside stables and refused to do so. If you google woodside stables erskine you will find out how badly the horses there were kept. the council had been trying to shut it down since August 2009 and the pony in question was only removed by the council in December 2009. what i don't undertstand is why the previous owner leave her animal there so long when it was clearly not being looked after?


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## Cuffey (6 February 2010)

Thank you Sharmie
Hope the pony stays well and no serious liver damage has been caused at the previous home
The article I saw did sound like the Council had acted OTT but clearly for good reason


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## horsedaft (11 February 2010)

im sorry but this topic is making my blood boil ... for one the council said you can come and take these ponies if you want them ... all they have is the name and address of people that took them homes were not vetted and quite a few of the ponies have went to worse conditions than what they were in .... for two the pony passed the vett check and was fine she is 3yr old in foal its not the youngest pony to be in foal that ive known of .... Cheyenne was one of the ponies that looked in the best nick they were NOT skinny and whos horse looks fab in the winter ?? her feet were in bad condition but due to the fact the farrier could not get near her ... also i may like to add the place where she is now is a health and safteys worst nightmare!!! the fields are ok but the yard is a mess rusty machinerry and all sorts litter the yard PLUS the farmer is under investigation for mistreating his cows ... so how is this pony better off where it is?? i do not condone anything that the owner of k l liveries has done and if the sspca were that concerned the ponies would have been lifted straight away ... the ponies had food and water in the field ... funny thing is the council gave everyone 90 days to passport each pony (they all had passports) and now the new owners are free to sell on to make a profit one of the ponies taken is on ad trader for sale for £200 as she is of no use to the current owner ... as i said before i dont think what the owner of k l liveries done was right but then again theres two sides to every story ....


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## Amymay (11 February 2010)

[ QUOTE ]
and whos horse looks fab in the winter  

[/ QUOTE ] 

Mine actually.


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## horsedaft (11 February 2010)

i never meant they all look scabby and whatever i just meant not every horse looks sleek and glam ... i have a big cob and hes a big hair ball at the minute although he hasnt lost any weight ... all im trying to put across is the ponies didnt look neglected body wise well apart from their rugs were trashed and having mud up to their knees even i know thats wrong but the ponies looked in good health and passed the vetting thats what my point is ...


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## Tormenta (11 February 2010)

Conflicting opinions then.

How could the farrier not get near?


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## horsedaft (11 February 2010)

as far as i know it hadnt had an work done picking up its feet etc and kicked out... a lot of farriers in this aea wont touch a pony that does that my friends horse is terified by the farrier just the sight of him she runs into the back of the stable and shakes but shes very highly stung plus shes one and a half!! its just all about time and work with these things ... oh forgot to add the pony was "clearly in foal" yet shes not due for a few months yet as far as i know ... she was just pudgy and bloated i think the matter in hand is the fact all these ponys are double passported and the fact is the council never took the right path to rehoming them and vetting their new homes i feel for tracy and i know the owner of kl is very convincing its very easy to trust someone and it doesnt work out im sure we have all made the mistake of putting trust in the "wrong person" at one point in their lives


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