# Advise needed. Horse lame only when trotting??!!



## felix12 (11 February 2016)

Anyone have any ideas as to what could be the problem with my 17.2hh horse?
only lame when trotting (haven't tried cantering as we didn't want to make things worse) have tried numberous treatments: cortisone injected into hocks, 3 weeks of physiotherapy, well rested. both vet and physio are at a loss what it could be.

no change to his behaviour on different surfaces but worse on one rein

A little clip: https://youtu.be/gqZhRjoQy2w


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## AdorableAlice (11 February 2016)

Popcorn anyone, and if I am incorrect, your horse is in need of help.


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## EquiEquestrian556 (11 February 2016)

Stifle issues?


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## el_Snowflakes (11 February 2016)

I would definitely get the vet to give the horse a thorough examination asap. For a horse to be so lame, he or she must be in considerable pain. I do hope you get to the bottom of it.


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## ycbm (11 February 2016)

I am being absolutely serious here.

Your horse, from that video, may well have a broken pelvis and urgently needs a gamma ray scintigraph.

He's in serious pain and should not be being trotted on the lunge or anywhere else.


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## felix12 (11 February 2016)

Have had the vet out and she has ruled any pain or obvious reason as to why he would he doing this. He is absolutely normal when walking and it's not sore or tender to touch etc


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## twiggy2 (11 February 2016)

get a different vet, a horse does not move like that unless there is either pain or a physical restriction in their ability to move normally.


felix12 said:



			Have had the vet out and she has ruled any pain or obvious reason as to why he would he doing this. He is absolutely normal when walking and it's not sore or tender to touch etc
		
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## nikicb (11 February 2016)

Poor boy, he looks crippled - makes uncomfortable viewing.  Please get a different vet out if your current one can't see it.


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## Nari (11 February 2016)

Agree with get a different vet, and from the step or two of walk at the end of that clip I'd say he wasn't sound in walk either.


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## Hepsibah (11 February 2016)

Lameness is a response to pain which is often seen most clearly in trot. Just because you don't see it in other gaits doesn't mean the pain isn't there. Horses are prey animals which means they have to be stoical - if they appear weak, they are more likely to be seen as an easy meal. It can also change their social standing in their herd. Please get advice from a competant vet.


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## Michen (11 February 2016)

Different vet. That's truly awful


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## felix12 (11 February 2016)

He is uninsured so resources are limited, was hoping someone else has come across a similar problem


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## ycbm (11 February 2016)

Dupe.


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## ycbm (11 February 2016)

felix12 said:



			He is uninsured so resources are limited, was hoping someone else has come across a similar problem
		
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Yes I have. One was a broken pelvis, the other was a crippling sacroiliac strain. Your horse is in serious trouble. Your vet is incompetent.

Limited resources or not, you have to either have this explored further or have the horse put down.

Your video is shocking.

I sincerely hope this thread is a wind up.


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## AdorableAlice (11 February 2016)

felix12 said:



			He is uninsured so resources are limited, was hoping someone else has come across a similar problem
		
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Lots of 0% credit cards available at the moment.


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## Orca (11 February 2016)

ycbm said:



			... Your horse is in serious trouble. Your vet is incompetent.

Limited resources or not, you have to either have this explored further or have the horse put down.

Your video is shocking.

I sincerely hope this thread is a wind up.
		
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Agreed.


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## AdorableAlice (11 February 2016)

ycbm said:



			Yes I have. One was a broken pelvis, the other was a crippling sacroiliac strain. Your horse is in serious trouble. Your vet is incompetent.

Limited resources or not, you have to either have this explored further or have the horse put down.

Your video is shocking.

I sincerely hope this thread is a wind up.
		
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Refer to comment number 2.


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## ycbm (11 February 2016)

Yes, we can only hope, eh, AA?


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## be positive (11 February 2016)

felix12 said:



			Have had the vet out and she has ruled any pain or obvious reason as to why he would he doing this. He is absolutely normal when walking and it's not sore or tender to touch etc
		
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I cannot believe a competent vet can look at this horse and rule out pain, it is not possible unless nerve blocks are done in every possible place, random injections are a waste of money without blocks and xrays to show where and why they are required. 

Most horses will appear "sound" in walk yet are far more obviously lame in trot, it is why trot is the most useful guide when judging lameness, however limited your finances this horse needs a proper examination by an equine vet who will not just rule out pain because there is no reaction to the more obvious tests, he moves in a similar way to how mine did with a serious sacroiliac injury but yours is far worse, mine had been thoroughly checked by several vets and it was only by changing vets that I got him treated appropriately.


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## PolarSkye (11 February 2016)

That is one uncomfortable/lame horse . . . he is either very ill (unlikely) or very broken.  Please get a competent vet out as soon as possible.  

Good luck.

P


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## AdorableAlice (12 February 2016)

The horse is well clipped and in show condition.  What was he doing prior to presenting in this condition ?  What is/was his job.  If you are really asking for help you need to expand on the situation more.

I have seen horses move like this, one was coming out of sedation and the other had turned a somersault on rock hard ground.


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## felix12 (12 February 2016)

AdorableAlice said:



			The horse is well clipped and in show condition.  What was he doing prior to presenting in this condition ?  What is/was his job.  If you are really asking for help you need to expand on the situation more.

I have seen horses move like this, one was coming out of sedation and the other had turned a somersault on rock hard ground.
		
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He is 9 years old Irish sports horse called felix , I've owned him since he was 2, he has always been a pleasure to ride. He is riden everyday, mostly doing flat work in a school, occasional jumping on the flat as well. Since we spotted this odd action we have ceased all work and has been on box rest and anti inflammatories, also had 3 weeks of physiotherapy. 

However in October 2015 he fell on his knees but seemed completely sound, but was taken out of the school for a little while.but then nov 2015 he had sudden odd action in trot but we were advised that he was just not being "forward" enough and Felix seemed to work through it, after the next 4 riding session Felixs problem was far more exaggerated and the work ceased immediately.

This video was taken 3 weeks after his box rest which was what the vet advised


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## ycbm (12 February 2016)

It isn't 'odd action', the horse is crippled lame


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## AdorableAlice (12 February 2016)

felix12 said:



			He is 9 years old Irish sports horse called felix , I've owned him since he was 2, he has always been a pleasure to ride. He is riden everyday, mostly doing flat work in a school, occasional jumping on the flat as well. Since we spotted this odd action we have ceased all work and has been on box rest and anti inflammatories, also had 3 weeks of physiotherapy. 

However in October 2015 he fell on his knees but seemed completely sound, but was taken out of the school for a little while.but then nov 2015 he had sudden odd action in trot but we were advised that he was just not being "forward" enough and Felix seemed to work through it, after the next 4 riding session Felixs problem was far more exaggerated and the work ceased immediately.

This video was taken 3 weeks after his box rest which was what the vet advised
		
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Did he get his head between his knees when he went down.  He is drawing his neck up and back in the clip, can he graze comfortably.

I really think, given the state he is in, you need him to go in and have a full work up.  The bigger hospitals are able to scan necks, backs and pelvis.  He is going to need money throwing at him in all honesty.  I hope you can help him and good luck.


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## felix12 (12 February 2016)

Mum here, Felix has been in working livery for approximately 3years, he does mostly light flatwork. I believe the fall in the school is the cause of his problems.

I stupidly did not think, this gorgeous boy my family and I schooled professionally, although wrapped in cotton wool, would end up in this distressing predicament, hence no insurance.  I believe that if you have a  difficult to diagnose scenario the more you seek advice and experience,you are surely closer to solving the problem, 2 lovely local vets and physiotherapist, have yet to make a diagnosis.
Cynically all animal owners are aware that if you have  insurance   ,fees may well be exasperated.
Although deeply upsetting, the forum feed back seems logical. Please feel affinity towards Felix he is an amazing,beautiful, kind person, he is absolutely adored. Will keep you posted, hopefully with happy news, But... I am very happy to be contacted personally,so keen to help my boy. 07794598042


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## twiggy2 (12 February 2016)

felix12 said:



			Mum here, Felix has been in working livery for approximately 3years, he does mostly light flatwork. I believe the fall in the school is the cause of his problems.

I stupidly did not think, this gorgeous boy my family and I schooled professionally, although wrapped in cotton wool, would end up in this distressing predicament, hence no insurance.  I believe that if you have a  difficult to diagnose scenario the more you seek advice and experience,you are surely closer to solving the problem, 2 lovely local vets and physiotherapist, have yet to make a diagnosis.
Cynically all animal owners are aware that if you have  insurance   ,fees may well be exasperated.
Although deeply upsetting, the forum feed back seems logical. Please feel affinity towards Felix he is an amazing,beautiful, kind person, he is absolutely adored. Will keep you posted, hopefully with happy news, But... I am very happy to be contacted personally,so keen to help my boy. 07794598042
		
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Very odd post, why would anyone put their phone number on an open forum?
Does anyone else think they will be asking for money nest to help with the bills for diagnostics and treatment?
In case I am wrong, OP your vets has already wasted money by advising physio without a diagnosis your horse needs a referral to a horse hospital for a full work up to diagnose what is wrong and the you will have decisions to make, if you cannot afford to do this you need a honest open chat with your vet about putting the hose down. Leaving a horse in that condition is neglect and is cruel. You need to do something for this horse he is in pain.


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## ycbm (12 February 2016)

felix12 said:



			Mum here, Felix has been in working livery for approximately 3years, he does mostly light flatwork. I believe the fall in the school is the cause of his problems.

I stupidly did not think, this gorgeous boy my family and I schooled professionally, although wrapped in cotton wool, would end up in this distressing predicament, hence no insurance.  I believe that if you have a  difficult to diagnose scenario the more you seek advice and experience,you are surely closer to solving the problem, 2 lovely local vets and physiotherapist, have yet to make a diagnosis.
Cynically all animal owners are aware that if you have  insurance   ,fees may well be exasperated.
Although deeply upsetting, the forum feed back seems logical. Please feel affinity towards Felix he is an amazing,beautiful, kind person, he is absolutely adored. Will keep you posted, hopefully with happy news, But... I am very happy to be contacted personally,so keen to help my boy. 07794598042
		
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The help your horse needs is not for people to phone you, it's a trip to a hospital for full scans and nerve blocks. He is appallingly lame. If you don't have the funds to do that, have him put down. if the vets treating him have not already said that then they are incompetent and you need one to refer you immediately to a place where they can do the proper diagnostics.

Your post is very odd. Working livery in a riding school yet you call it 'wrapped up in cotton wool'? You didn't insure because you thought he'd never get ill?

I think your horse has a broken pelvis, a very severe sacroiliac strain, or something equally serious.

GET HIM TO A HOSPITAL!



PS I'm still hoping this is just a half term wind up or a send me money scam. I certainly do feel affinity with that poor, hurting horse.


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## applecart14 (12 February 2016)

felix12 said:



			Mum here, Felix has been in working livery for approximately 3years, he does mostly light flatwork. I believe the fall in the school is the cause of his problems.

I stupidly did not think, this gorgeous boy my family and I schooled professionally, although wrapped in cotton wool, would end up in this distressing predicament, hence no insurance.  I believe that if you have a  difficult to diagnose scenario the more you seek advice and experience,you are surely closer to solving the problem, 2 lovely local vets and physiotherapist, have yet to make a diagnosis.
Cynically all animal owners are aware that if you have  insurance   ,fees may well be exasperated.
Although deeply upsetting, the forum feed back seems logical. Please feel affinity towards Felix he is an amazing,beautiful, kind person, he is absolutely adored. Will keep you posted, hopefully with happy news, But... I am very happy to be contacted personally,so keen to help my boy. 07794598042
		
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I am sorry to hear about your horse, the video is sad to watch, my horse has had numerous issues over the years, but has never looked even half that bad so I think whatever is wrong is pretty serious as he is very unwilling to move fowards which suggests that his whole body is compromised, probably overcompensating in so many areas in an effort to relieve the pain.  I can assure you that most of us seeing that video feel both affinity and empathy towards your horse which is why we are suggesting what we are suggesting.

 Did your vet diagnose spavin in his hocks in the first place- is that why his hocks have had steroid injected into them?  What did he say would be the prognosis? As he has offered you anti inflammatories what was the prognosis, how long did he say you could use them for, when did he say he would make a return visit to the horse, did he not recommend you send the horse to a hospital, exactly how many bute/danillon is he on a day, did he suggest PTS?  Lots of unanswered questions.

I really think your best option would be as others have said and get him to a veterinary hospital ASAP.  He needs a thorough examination and a diagnosis made so that you can consider your options.

All horses are capable of injuring themselves out of nowhere, I know this only too well.  Insurance is a must for horses, Felix's bills could literally run into thousands depending on the nature of his injury.  I know fees may be excacerbated but that is the nature with insurance.

Is your physio a ACPAT registered physio? I find it incredible that two vets and a physio cannot between them determine what is wrong with your horse.

I hope you get your answers but you won't find them on this forum.  The only one can advise is a professional at a veterinary hospital.


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## BethH (12 February 2016)

Ok - my horse has looked that bad, he looked exactly like that over Xmas too, hence a very panicky couple of weeks!  What we think is that due to the appallingly wet weather, when he was playing he slipped and tweaked something in his groin area, also the cartilage in his feet weakened, especially front right which meant he couldn't power from behind as his back legs were blocked by very sore front feet and it showed up as a very lame left hind.  Also to add to the mix, he has had hock issues (injected 18mths ago) so there is a thought that he may need to go for more tests to confirm if further injections are needed and the vet found a small lump on his left stifle joint so if wondering if this is remodelling and may or may not be part of the problem.

6 weeks on, (my horse is barefoot these days) having put wraps on his feet and he came sound and went from looking like your horse to floating around the school in trot and then a mad gallop (not requested but offered without waiting for response) which he hasn't been able to do for some time.  After a couple of days of light work he has stiffened up again so will now be booked in (yet again!) for the further investigations I cancelled when he came sound.

I too thought my horse had fractured his pelvis, in your shoes I would be looking at heel pain and then hocks/stifle.  It is bi-lateral. I would also say that your horse going down has definitely caused him a problem.  Have you done a bute trial?  I would say a proper equine vet needs to look, where are you based someone on here may be able to recommend somewhere decent.  Good luck, let us know how he is, he looks a lovely person!


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## felix12 (12 February 2016)

How unpleasant and bitter. Not begging, hoping someone else has diagnosed and overcome the problem. He is able to roll and canter when turned out, so almost certainly not a broken pelvis. The problem exasperated over 3 months. Thankyou


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## ycbm (12 February 2016)

felix12 said:



			How unpleasant and bitter. Not begging, hoping someone else has diagnosed and overcome the problem. He is able to roll and canter when turned out, so almost certainly not a broken pelvis. The problem exasperated over 3 months. Thankyou
		
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You cannot say he does not have a broken pelvis. I forget the name of the member, but there is video of her horse on a lesson doing what would be considered a perfectly adequate trot. She knew the horse was not right, pressed for a gamma ray  scintigraph scan, and sure enough she'd been riding a horse with a broken pelvis.


For three months you've been riding an increasingly unsound horse. If this was with the advice of your vet, and they did not suggest scans and nerve blocks to get a proper diagnosis then they are incompetent.


Your horse needs a hospital. Strangers on the net can't diagnose it for you. What we can see is that he is in SERIOUS trouble at the moment. He is shockingly lame. I would be embarrassed to post that video and tell people that I adored my horse but would not fund further investigation to find out why.

Please make your next post the one that tells us you have booked him into hospital for a lameness workup.


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## AdorableAlice (12 February 2016)

felix12 said:



			How unpleasant and bitter. Not begging, hoping someone else has diagnosed and overcome the problem. He is able to roll and canter when turned out, so almost certainly not a broken pelvis. The problem exasperated over 3 months. Thankyou
		
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No one on the forum can diagnose for you.  The only thing you can do is speak to your vet and get a referral to hospital.  Where are you in the UK ?  If central, I thoroughly recommend the Three Counties Equine Hospital, they have all the modern diagnostic kit.  Time is far better spent getting him help as soon as possible, you need a correct diagnosis from the best professionals available and then a plan of action to hopefully, get him comfortable.


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## Orca (12 February 2016)

felix12 said:



			How unpleasant and bitter. Not begging, hoping someone else has diagnosed and overcome the problem. He is able to roll and canter when turned out, so almost certainly not a broken pelvis. The problem exasperated over 3 months. Thankyou
		
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I think it's unpleasant to see a horse in this level of discomfort, particularly knowing that this has been going on for three months without proper diagnosis and worsening. There is a time for testing methods to aid recovery (box rest/ bute trials/ anti inflammatories/ etc) but when his condition continues to worsen to the point that he is visibly, excruciatingly crippled, it is time to take immediate constructive action - whatever that might be. I understand that you have come here in an effort to help him but really, that is futile if you are not able or willing to have his problems properly investigated as suggested or alternatively, put him out of his misery.

You seem shocked by the suggestion of some to put him to sleep if you cannot help him? People aren't being harsh, callous or uncaring but are suggesting this because they do care and most here would do anything rather than see a horse suffer. That is responsible horse ownership, painful as it is at times. As your horse and your responsibility, it is only you who can help him. I don't envy you the position you are in but doing nothing is *not* an option. Please allow the vet to investigate his condition extensively, as a matter of urgency and if not, make the only other responsible choice available to you because you are right, your horse is sweet, kind and gentle. He is clearly the sort who would keep trying even with a broken limb - that doesn't mean he should be forced to.


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## applecart14 (12 February 2016)

felix12 said:



			How unpleasant and bitter. Not begging, hoping someone else has diagnosed and overcome the problem. He is able to roll and canter when turned out, so almost certainly not a broken pelvis. The problem exasperated over 3 months. Thankyou
		
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If the problem has excacerbated to the point it is now, I still do not see how a diagnosis has not been made. If the horse has had steroid injections into his hocks he should be comfortable and not exhibiting the shuffling that we see on the video.  Either the injections have not worked (which I cant see happening) or there is another problem which has been highlighted in a different area of his body, now he is using himself differently.

 I don't think anyone is saying you are not a caring owner, as to be fair to you, you have been guided by your vet to a point, but I do not understand why the vet is not more proactive in getting a diagnosis for the horse and I don't understand why you do not harrass them at this point.

If it were my horse I would feel most uncomfortable seeing him like this. Horses can and often do make good recoveries looking like your horse does, mine was lame on three bute a day during a bute trial and I was thinking that this was the end and was frantic with worry, but he became sound as the bute was reduced and with the aid of a decent physio.  Sometimes if you take the pain away in one area, as they develop a new way of going, and  they can then start to hurt in a different area.

As I see it you have two choices, either a veterinary hospital facility or PTS and the latter is something you may be forced to do if you have no funds.

I think you said that you made the video for the vet.  What did the vet say to you upon receipt of it?


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## felix12 (12 February 2016)

Ps. Thus avoiding unnecessary painful, traumatic intervention.
I of course have funds. 
I find texts or calls easier to access.

Is propaganda more prominent when schools are closed?
Don't worry it is only a week closure.


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## felix12 (12 February 2016)

The next stage is investigating his back. Thankyou


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## AdorableAlice (12 February 2016)

felix12 said:



			Ps. Thus avoiding unnecessary painful, traumatic intervention.
I of course have funds. 
I find texts or calls easier to access.

Is propaganda more prominent when schools are closed?
Don't worry it is only a week closure.
		
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Just call your vet and get him the help he needs.


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## Hepsibah (12 February 2016)

felix12 said:



			Ps. Thus avoiding unnecessary painful, traumatic intervention.
I of course have funds. 
I find texts or calls easier to access.

Is propaganda more prominent when schools are closed?
Don't worry it is only a week closure.
		
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I'm sorry, what?


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## applecart14 (12 February 2016)

Hepsibah said:



			I'm sorry, what?
		
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I think when she says exasperate she means exacerbate and when she says Ps. she means PTS.
I think when she says propaganda she means the comments she has received.
I think when she says the school closure is only for a week, she is being sarky.


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## Hepsibah (12 February 2016)

applecart14 said:



			I think when she says exasperate she means exacerbate and when she says Ps. she means PTS.
I think when she says propaganda she means the comments she has received.
I think when she says the school closure is only for a week, she is being sarky.
		
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Oh thank you. It _looked_ like English but I couldn't get any meaning from it. :rolleyes3:


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## LouiseG (12 February 2016)

This is horrific, your horse is unbelievably lame, how can the vet determine it's his hocks without doing any investigations at all? He's so lame it's actually hard to see where he isn't sore. I'm in shock and wondering if this is post is a wind up!!! Stop trotting him around in circles and get him to a vet hospital ASAP.


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## ycbm (12 February 2016)

felix12 said:



			The next stage is investigating his back. Thankyou
		
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In what way?


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## ester (12 February 2016)

That is horrific, and has been deteriorating for 3 months? :eek3: I am rendered pretty speechless.

If you care for the horse as much as you say you take it to a veterinary hospital for a full work up ASAP, Monday. 
The next stage shouldn't be investigating his back, that should have been weeks/months ago. 

That poor poor horse, I can't believe you can be on a yard of people and have had a vet and a physio to him and no one has said he needs a full work up as whatever pain relief he is currently having is insufficient. I also cannot believe you lunged him in trot for more than a few strides seeing him so crippled.


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## ester (12 February 2016)

I assume he doesn't respond to hoof testers..


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## Auslander (12 February 2016)

I'm going to come at this from a good cop angle, although I'm as horrified as most, on watching this video.

Has the horse had scans/xrays? You say that the vet and physio have been treating him, but what are they treating? 

Treament/pain relief is useless without a firm diagnosis, and you will not get a diagnosis without looking under the skin. Ideally, the horse would be transported to a hospital for a proper lameness investigation, but equally, most decent equine vets can work out what the problem is using mobile equipment. If they can't, they can at least tell you that the horse needs more complex investigations, and will need to go into hospital.

I think that your current vet is doing you a grave disservice y allowing this situation to continue, and I would be actievly seeking out aa decent, highly recommended equine specialist to take over the care of this horse. Whereabouts are you? Someone may be able to recommend one, if we know where you are.


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## JFTDWS (12 February 2016)

I believe the OP is in Hampshire...

Do I gather you're looking to turn the horse away for a few months now OP?  I don't think this is a very good idea, given the extent of the discomfort evident in your video.


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## ester (12 February 2016)

It's really annoying me trying to remember the bay horse who I remember the OP had video of it cross country schooling happily and then a few days later really shut down in an arena, am sure that had something seriously broken.


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## JFTDWS (12 February 2016)

ester said:



			It's really annoying me trying to remember the bay horse who I remember the OP had video of it cross country schooling happily and then a few days later really shut down in an arena, am sure that had something seriously broken.
		
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The OP had a previous account then?


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## ester (12 February 2016)

No no, sorry a whole different thread a good while ago!


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## JFTDWS (12 February 2016)

ester said:



			No no, sorry a whole different thread a good while ago!
		
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Because it's a comparable injury or you think it's the same horse or...?  I'm being a bit slow here.  I'll catch up, sooner or later


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## Auslander (12 February 2016)

JFTD said:



			I believe the OP is in Hampshire...
		
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If OP is in Hampshire - I can recommend a truly excellent vet, who is absolutely fiendish at diagnostics, and is one of the most thorough imagers I've ever met.


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## ester (12 February 2016)

JFTD said:



			Because it's a comparable injury or you think it's the same horse or...?  I'm being a bit slow here.  I'll catch up, sooner or later 

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Because OP was saying not critical as horse fine in field... this one managed to be fine XC schooling and someone else mentioned it further up the thread.


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## JFTDWS (12 February 2016)

ester said:



			Because OP was saying not critical as horse fine in field... this one managed to be fine XC schooling and someone else mentioned it further up the thread.
		
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I see.  I very much got hold of the wrong end of the stick there.


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## Lgd (12 February 2016)

Think the only way to get to the bottom of this is to at least do nerve blocks to try and identify where the problem is.
He isn't wasted over the quarters that I can see on the video so would not rule out something going on lower down.


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## Leo Walker (12 February 2016)

Hes a very unhappy horse, and I know you have been guided by your vet, but I dont think they are helping him. I think now might be the time for a second vet opinion. Not all vets are equal! I know that my physio would have point blank refused to treat my horse if he presented like that without the vet, if not being present, at least having an in depth conversation about what they wanted the physio to do and why.


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## WindyStacks (14 February 2016)

Tbh, I'm not entirely convinced you've had veterinary intervention - by posting your phone number you seem to be looking for someone to text and say "ignore the haterz, I cured my horse with tumeric lol!1!".  I find it hard to believe that any qualified vet whatsoever (even one who specialises only in goldfish) thought this horse was anywhere near OK.

Your horse is b0rked. To get the scans at the height required is going to set you back the best part of 5k - and if there's anything left out of that it'll disappear almost instantly on treatment, which may, or may not be successful. 

I had a horse PTS a couple of months ago who didn't walk that badly but as soon as I saw him put in a "funny walk" I called the vet on an emergency call out to PTS. I knew something was very wrong (suspected pelvis fracture) and knew deep down that no matter how much money I threw at it, it was never going to come good. (Obviously more to this story than I've posted before I get told off for PTS a horse which had an off day  ). 

Not all decisions are easy.


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## PolarSkye (14 February 2016)

OP, if you ARE in Hampshire and would like a recommendation for a thoroughly professional vet, please PM me.  Your lovely horse needs a serious lameness workup by someone who knows what they're doing - such an undertaking should take about half a day and include nerve blocking, which may then need to be followed up by some sort of scintigraphy . . . as Auslander said, looking under the skin.

P


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## onceuponatime (14 February 2016)

Agreed - Change vet immediately and get a second opinion from a good EQUINE vet!  This horse is in serious pain and needs attention urgently!


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## {97702} (14 February 2016)

Just Google the phone number so helpfully supplied and it brings up a whole load of relevant hits....


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## ycbm (14 February 2016)

One hoover for sale. One Shetland for loan. One job application. One horse (this one I think) for loan, but I can't see a date on it.  Are you finding something else?


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## WindyStacks (14 February 2016)

I saw someone looking for grazing from March to August for convalescence... posted 3 days ago.


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## ycbm (14 February 2016)

Really?

Oh for God's sake OP get the poor bloody horse a competent vet!  Turning it away in the state it's in is downright abuse.


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## applecart14 (15 February 2016)

If you put the number in google it comes up with her name.  It also shows the following advert saying 

"Grazing desperately needed for convalescing Gelding, March -August. 
Can erect fencing if required. Anywhere in Hampshire considered"

She was also selling the horse at one point, when he was 8 years of age.  Looking at the cached page, the trawler states that the advert is showing as it appeared on 9th Dec 2015.

So presumably the horse must have deteriorated badly after this date, so it does appear she is telling the truth.


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## charlie76 (15 February 2016)

Unless I am mistaken, that video is at sparsholt college. I assume that is where he is on working livery? 
Extremely concerning that the staff at a large equine college have not advised you better.


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## ester (16 February 2016)

Actually yes I think you are correct. At the very least you would think that duty of care would apply. Although very close I don't actually know anyone there to make enquiries.


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## nikicb (16 February 2016)

Same horse I believe previously.  There are more clips of him as well here.  I guess these were taken by someone for course work, they popped up on a search of "sparsholt felix".

http://vshare.sparsholt.ac.uk/view/275/felix-1st-december/


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## ester (16 February 2016)

Didn't look great 10th November http://vshare.sparsholt.ac.uk/view/277/felix-monday-10th-november/


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## nikicb (16 February 2016)

ester said:



			Didn't look great 10th November http://vshare.sparsholt.ac.uk/view/277/felix-monday-10th-november/

Click to expand...

That must have been November 2014 as was posted in March 2015.


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## ester (16 February 2016)

Just to let users know, and as I do only live about 20 minutes away from Sparsholt I have contacted the Equine centre manager to see if she can reassure us that the horse is receiving appropriate veterinary treatment at this time in lieu of the owner responding.


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## applecart14 (16 February 2016)

We can all be judgemental but perhaps she has been in discussion with the college already and they may have said something along the lines of 'as your horse is already receiving veterinary attention lets see how it goes, and we will be guided by what your vet says and see what happens'.  She said the video had been taken to show her vet and that the horse had deteriorated which was why the video was taken.

I can see from the video that the horse is clearly requiring diagnostic intervention which I have already stated on a previous reply, but TBH I don't think it is up to anyone on this forum to approach anyone from the college.


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## ester (16 February 2016)

Too late , mostly because the college's name is on this thread, as such it will now come up on google so I feel they have a right to reply at the very least to maintain their reputation. Which they cannot do if they don't know it exists. 
Especially as the owner's responses have not been terribly reassuring/have mentioned financial issues.
(My vets are also very close to the college, and very good if they use them)


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## _HP_ (16 February 2016)

As this is all in the public domain then I don't see a problem with Ester contacting the college....well done I say...that horse needs help. If he already has help then great, if not then hopefully he'll get it.


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## JFTDWS (16 February 2016)

ester said:



			Too late , mostly because the college's name is on this thread, as such it will now come up on google so I feel they have a right to reply at the very least to maintain their reputation. Which they cannot do if they don't know it exists. 
Especially as the owner's responses have not been terribly reassuring/have mentioned financial issues.
(My vets are also very close to the college, and very good if they use them)
		
Click to expand...

I've been flipping back and forward all week about reporting the OP anyway, as I have her name and address. to make sure the horse is not just chucked in a field in this state.  I think this is a slightly less confrontational approach, so all the better.


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## be positive (16 February 2016)

applecart14 said:



			We can all be judgemental but perhaps she has been in discussion with the college already and they may have said something along the lines of 'as your horse is already receiving veterinary attention lets see how it goes, and we will be guided by what your vet says and see what happens'.  She said the video had been taken to show her vet and that the horse had deteriorated which was why the video was taken.

I can see from the video that the horse is clearly requiring diagnostic intervention which I have already stated on a previous reply, but TBH I don't think it is up to anyone on this forum to approach anyone from the college.
		
Click to expand...

We are all able to make assumptions, be judgemental but with very little information from the OP I think ester is right to make contact with the college and see if the picture can be clarified. 
My first thoughts are that as he cannot be used the college may well be trying to return him to the owner as he is, hence the need to find grazing, not ideal but if she has serious financial problems she may see that as her only option, it is one of the risks with loaning, especially with no insurance cover, the owner gets a broken horse returned and has no idea what to do. 

Hopefully we will hear back from the college via ester.


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## Apercrumbie (16 February 2016)

Poor, poor horse.  Far too lame to just be turned away.  I really hope the OP finds the funds to do right by him.  As it stands, the situation is ludicrous - a physio is never going to be able to fix something that seriously lame.


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## PolarSkye (16 February 2016)

apercrumbie said:



			Poor, poor horse.  Far too lame to just be turned away.  I really hope the OP finds the funds to do right by him.  As it stands, the situation is ludicrous - a physio is never going to be able to fix something that seriously lame.
		
Click to expand...

No reputable bodyworker will touch him as he is now . . . he needs a vet.

P


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## PolarSkye (16 February 2016)

applecart14 said:



			We can all be judgemental but perhaps she has been in discussion with the college already and they may have said something along the lines of 'as your horse is already receiving veterinary attention lets see how it goes, and we will be guided by what your vet says and see what happens'.  She said the video had been taken to show her vet and that the horse had deteriorated which was why the video was taken.

I can see from the video that the horse is clearly requiring diagnostic intervention which I have already stated on a previous reply, but TBH I don't think it is up to anyone on this forum to approach anyone from the college.
		
Click to expand...

Actually, I agree with this.  As unpalatable as it is to see a horse so very lame/sore, it's up to the college to sort/work with the horses' vets as long as he's on college property.  I know there's a welfare concern here, but "we" don't know what has/hasn't gone on between the owner and the college and, as frustrating as it is, it isn't our business.  We are not vigilantes - however passionate we are about equine welfare (and believe me I'm angry as hell about all the horses out there who don't get adequate care when I'd give my right arm to have half an hour with my boy when he was healthy - not even ridden sound, just healthy and "himself").

P


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## ester (16 February 2016)

I don't think there is any vigilantism going on, just geniune concern that a horse's needs are met, including freedom from pain and it is always worrying when an owner declares funds an issue and that they hoped for a diagnosis via a video on the internet.


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## PolarSkye (16 February 2016)

ester said:



			I don't think there is any vigilantism going on, just geniune concern that a horse's needs are met, including freedom from pain and it is always worrying when an owner declares funds an issue and that they hoped for a diagnosis via a video on the internet.
		
Click to expand...

I agree with all of this - I'm just a tad uncomfortable with "us" taking matters into our own hands and contacting the college.  You know I love and respect you as a horsewoman and a person, but I'd have been extremely unhappy if someone had (for example) taken images of Kali on Friday afternoon and decided to intervene . . . perhaps my discomfort comes from me being very raw and feeling guilty about not being able to save my boy . . . I dunno.

P


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## ester (16 February 2016)

As I said as much as anything it is because this will now come up on google for the college and would likely not be representative of the care given to it's equines. So I feel the opportunity to confirm that they are working with the owner and the vets to resolve the issue (even if one would assume this were the case!) should be given, given the horse's presentation which I think most have found quite shocking to be asked about on the internet. It is of course entirely possible that the horse is no longer there anyway. 

The difference here also is that the owner took the video and posted it on the internet asking for opinions, not someone else doing so and then intervening.


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## PolarSkye (16 February 2016)

ester said:



			As I said as much as anything it is because this will now come up on google for the college and would likely not be representative of the care given to it's equines. So I feel the opportunity to confirm that they are working with the owner and the vets to resolve the issue (even if one would assume this were the case!) should be given, given the horse's presentation which I think most have found quite shocking to be asked about on the internet. It is of course entirely possible that the horse is no longer there anyway. 

The difference here also is that the owner took the video and posted it on the internet asking for opinions, not someone else doing so and then intervening.
		
Click to expand...

This is a good point - reflecting on the college.  

P


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## Orca (16 February 2016)

I'm glad you've contacted them, Ester, for the reasons you've mentioned.

On the initial video, information given and subsequent realisation that this horse is at an equine college, I did have a 'WTF are they playing at' moment when I read this thread earlier.  It would be nice to know things aren't as they seem and that this boy is receiving appropriate care.

I know that even on the livery yard I'm on, horses must (and do) receive appropriate medical treatment. I would hope that any well regarded equine establishment would have similar clauses wrt horses on their property and under their care. Fingers crossed for a positive response from the college


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## JFTDWS (16 February 2016)

ester said:



			The difference here also is that the owner took the video and posted it on the internet asking for opinions, not someone else doing so and then intervening.
		
Click to expand...

Indeed - and has since disappeared from the forum and posted adverts for grazing elsewhere to turn a lame horse away.  That's a massive concern for me, but if it's entirely innocent, the college (or any other intervening body) will be able to ascertain that for themselves.


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## ycbm (16 February 2016)

Well done Ester.

I just want to add in case the OP is still checking. I have no problem turning a horse who is 3/10  lame and has no fractures out under daily supervision for a month to see what happens. But your horse is much worse than that on his entire back end and no way should be being turned away without seeing a vet.


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## AandK (23 February 2016)

Ester, did you ever get a response?


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## ester (23 February 2016)

I did, but was unsure whether to post as the thread had gone quiet. 

'I understand why you may find the video clip distressing but please be reassured that Felix is under the appropriate veterinary care.  Unfortunately I cannot discuss his diagnosis and treatment with you but can tell you he has been under veterinary treatment since he first displayed symptoms of lameness.'


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## Theocat (23 February 2016)

The college will be very limited in what they can say - I'm staggered they've said as much.

Perhaps the OP has stopped posting because of the tone of some posts - concern for welfare is all very well,  but you achieve much more if you don't turn it into a witch hunt.

OP - even if one of us has seen something present exactly the same, it doesn't mean this has the same cause. I'd guess stifles, because I've seen similar, but it will all depend on what people have experience of. You need another vet opinion. If you can't afford diagnostics or treatment (and this does not look cheap) you need to think seriously about putting him down.  If you turn him away with the support of your vet, you need to agree a strict time limit for improvement, and if he gets any worse I think you need to call it a day immediately. Personally if funds are an issue and he's been getting steadily worse for three months,  I'd put him down.  I'm sure all of us on this thread understand how painful that is, but not one of us would judge you.

ETA he looks lame in walk to me too, from the little we can see on the video.


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## AandK (23 February 2016)

ester said:



			I did, but was unsure whether to post as the thread had gone quiet. 

'I understand why you may find the video clip distressing but please be reassured that Felix is under the appropriate veterinary care.  Unfortunately I cannot discuss his diagnosis and treatment with you but can tell you he has been under veterinary treatment since he first displayed symptoms of lameness.'
		
Click to expand...

Thanks for the update, I guess at least they responded and is probably all they can say on the matter.


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## felix12 (11 March 2016)

A full bone scan,  revealed no problems.
Very sore Sacroiliac diagnosed after an elimination process.
Horse rested at grass, now sound, will have more Physiotherapist treatment before starting very light work at home.

Thankyou for the helpful caring respondents


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## AdorableAlice (11 March 2016)

felix12 said:



			A full bone scan,  revealed no problems.
Very sore Sacroiliac diagnosed after an elimination process.
Horse rested at grass, now sound, will have more Physiotherapist treatment before starting very light work at home.

Thankyou for the helpful caring respondents
		
Click to expand...

I wish you every success in the future with your horse.


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## nikicb (11 March 2016)

felix12 said:



			A full bone scan,  revealed no problems.
Very sore Sacroiliac diagnosed after an elimination process.
Horse rested at grass, now sound, will have more Physiotherapist treatment before starting very light work at home.

Thankyou for the helpful caring respondents
		
Click to expand...

Thank you for coming back and posting.  I really hope Felix comes right for you.  xx


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## felix12 (17 March 2016)

Just to clarify!THE GELDING IN QUESTION,HAS NEVER BEEN FOR SALE AND NEVER WILL BE! AT One point I was looking for a temporary loan home,only because of a drastic change in my domestic situation. The video was posted in the hope that someone had experienced similar and could help solve the mystery. Felix has always been under supervision from competent vets and physiotherapists. The very sad thing is that trained staff should have known more than me, the damage and discomfort for him could have been less.


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## only_me (17 March 2016)

Strange how you are dragging this thread back up.

And just to say, when a previous horse at yard fractured his front pastern, he wasn't ever as lame as yours.


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## felix12 (17 March 2016)

Strange really?! Just have a bit of spare time and hope to help someone who may be in a similar predicament, of not knowing.


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