# Ponies shot by gov vets on Bodmin moor



## FairyLights (16 April 2013)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ezing-spring-weather-dumped-cruel-owners.html


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## Maesfen (16 April 2013)

About time too; they should have culled the lot of them at the same time else they'll only be as bad next year.


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## AdorableAlice (16 April 2013)

We holidayed in the area, summer 2011 and even in July the ponies looked dreadful.  There should have been intervention long before they got to this state.


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## Honeylight (16 April 2013)

Horsesforever1 said:



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ezing-spring-weather-dumped-cruel-owners.html

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The Mail really does over do the pictures once again.


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## Hairy Old Cob (16 April 2013)

Kindest thing that could happen to the poor Sods too many old infirm uncared for horses and Ponies in the Country.


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## AdorableAlice (16 April 2013)

Honeylight said:



			The Mail really does over do the pictures once again.
		
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Would you prefer it not to be brought to the publics attention ?


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## Norfolk Pie (16 April 2013)

I actually think the pictures are essential.  This is a direct result of the ridiculous, induscriminate breeding that goes on,  With luck, maybe just one of the idiots that continue to put their dangerous / conformationally poor /  hereditary challenged mare in foal, often to some scrubby stallion, might just think twice. Most wont, but if its just one less foal that must be good.


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## Nugget La Poneh (16 April 2013)

AdorableAlice said:



			Would you prefer it not to be brought to the publics attention ?
		
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The photos in that article are being used in the wrong way - all they will do is incite people to campaign against the horse numbers being controlled, not against the real issue of people indiscriminately breeding and then off loading their no longer wanted stock on the moors.


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## Maesfen (16 April 2013)

Norfolk Pie said:



			I actually think the pictures are essential.  This is a direct result of the ridiculous, induscriminate breeding that goes on,  With luck, maybe just one of the idiots that continue to put their dangerous / conformationally poor /  hereditary challenged mare in foal, often to some scrubby stallion, might just think twice. Most wont, but if its just one less foal that must be good.
		
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Absolutely plus in the hope that their friends and neighbours learn how they've treated their ponies and act as disgusted as we are, nothing like local attitude to bring things home in close knit communities.  
This needs bringing to public knowledge, no use sweeping it under the carpet because they're not nice to see.  Let the public know how bad those ponies got before the authorities stepped in to stop their misery.  All of those owners should be banned from keeping ponies ever again.


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## AdorableAlice (16 April 2013)

Maesfen said:



			Absolutely plus in the hope that their friends and neighbours learn how they've treated their ponies and act as disgusted as we are, nothing like local attitude to bring things home in close knit communities.  
This needs bringing to public knowledge, no use sweeping it under the carpet because they're not nice to see.  Let the public know how bad those ponies got before the authorities stepped in to stop their misery.  All of those owners should be banned from keeping ponies ever again.
		
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I would hope the police already have local  intelligence to get a prosecution started.

Having seen the Bodmin and Dartmoor ponies close up recently, it was evident none of them were of any use.  Tiny, crooked limbed runts, the moor was nothing better than a dumping ground for live rubbish.

Who actually legislates and controls livestock on the moors, or is that a silly question ?


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## Honeylight (16 April 2013)

AdorableAlice said:



			Would you prefer it not to be brought to the publics attention ?
		
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I just think it is typical of the Mail to sensationalise a story. look at the ones they show of horses in the Grand National. One of the pictures would have been enough.


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## Maesfen (16 April 2013)

AdorableAlice said:



			I would hope the police already have local  intelligence to get a prosecution started.

Having seen the Bodmin and Dartmoor ponies close up recently, it was evident none of them were of any use.  Tiny, crooked limbed runts, the moor was nothing better than a dumping ground for live rubbish.

Who actually legislates and controls livestock on the moors, or is that a silly question ?
		
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Glad I'm not the only one to think they were awful.  As to legislation, not sure who over sees the Cornish commons but usually those with registered grazing rights have the right to graze it but they might be restricted as to numbers and species and between certain dates.   It doesn't help if all the commoners turn out their limit (if there is one) at the same time either as obviously it won't keep too many for too long.   On our small common here, we have rights to graze 6 cattle, another neighbour has rights to graze 2 cattle and sheep, another for 20 cattle; we are also restricted to only grazing between April and October because it's a SBI too so that gives the ground and habitat time to recover.  If something like those rules were put in place there, the common could be empty in the winter, better for the animals and the habitat; if it's grazed non-stop all year by maximum numbers it won't have a chance to grow and be healthy; I think that's something the common authorities need to look at closely.



Honeylight said:



			I just think it is typical of the Mail to sensationalise a story. look at the ones they show of horses in the Grand National. One of the pictures would have been enough.
		
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No, for once we need more to shock people that this is actually happening else they'll forget by the time they're wrapping their chips in it.  We need to make a stink about this and the ones in Wales too, it's the only way we can get this changed for the better but the local authorities have to play their part too by making and enforcing proper rights and rules to safeguard the ponies and the commons.


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## misterjinglejay (17 April 2013)

I agree - this cannot be swept under the carpet any longer. It's  a disaster for welfare, and the public needs to know, as shocking as the photo's are.


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## Shadow the Reindeer (18 April 2013)

Honeylight said:



			The Mail really does over do the pictures once again.
		
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Sometimes shock tactics are needed, how else are we going to get the message across?


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## Shadow the Reindeer (18 April 2013)

I personally think it's high time they tackled over breeding. Everywhere I look there are mares in foal, or about to drop. These are bred for an already overflowing market, and will probably end up at market going for pittance. If they're lucky, they'll land on their feet, if not, they'll be destined for Europe.
I usually avoid posting about this subject, as my feeling towards unscrupulous breeding are very strong.


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## Mitchyden (18 April 2013)

Shadeyoak said:



			I personally think it's high time they tackled over breeding. Everywhere I look there are mares in foal, or about to drop. These are bred for an already overflowing market, and will probably end up at market going for pittance. If they're lucky, they'll land on their feet, if not, they'll be destined for Europe.
I usually avoid posting about this subject, as my feeling towards unscrupulous breeding are very strong.
		
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This is one of the lucky ones from Dartmoor. I got her from H.O.P.E Dartmoor Rescue and she's gorgeous.


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## Shadow the Reindeer (18 April 2013)

Mitchyden said:



			This is one of the lucky ones from Dartmoor. I got her from H.O.P.E Dartmoor Rescue and she's gorgeous. 








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She's lovely


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## Goldenstar (18 April 2013)

Honeylight said:



			I just think it is typical of the Mail to sensationalise a story. look at the ones they show of horses in the Grand National. One of the pictures would have been enough.
		
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Decides who ?
I am pleased that a newspaper has printed these pictures better people see it as it is no point in brushing such things under the carpet.


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## Gloi (19 April 2013)

The RSPCA could spend some of their money subsidising castrations for colts like cat and dog owners can get subsidised neutering.


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## dalesslave (19 April 2013)

they do they ran a scheme in the Teeside area for "travellers " to have their colts gelded. More free vet care for them that shouldnt have them in the first case although at least it meant that they didnt do it them selves this year! and still it wont stop them from breeding "coloureds " to sell to idiots for stupid money.


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## PolarSkye (19 April 2013)

Norfolk Pie said:



			I actually think the pictures are essential.  This is a direct result of the ridiculous, induscriminate breeding that goes on,  With luck, maybe just one of the idiots that continue to put their dangerous / conformationally poor /  hereditary challenged mare in foal, often to some scrubby stallion, might just think twice. Most wont, but if its just one less foal that must be good.
		
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At the risk of being called a sheep . . . THIS.  

Baaaaaaa.

P


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## hackneylass2 (25 April 2013)

I'm with you PolarSkye and Norfolk Pie.  
In fact, a video of the shooting and subsequent dragging would have had more impact. 
It happened, no doubt it will happen again, and people need to see the reality of the situation.

Too many horse keepers and not enough horse lovers around these days.


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## misterjinglejay (25 April 2013)

hackneylass2 said:



			Too many horse keepers and not enough horse lovers around these days.
		
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So true - sadly


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## fatpiggy (25 April 2013)

AdorableAlice said:



			I would hope the police already have local  intelligence to get a prosecution started.

Having seen the Bodmin and Dartmoor ponies close up recently, it was evident none of them were of any use.  Tiny, crooked limbed runts, the moor was nothing better than a dumping ground for live rubbish.

Who actually legislates and controls livestock on the moors, or is that a silly question ?
		
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I grew up in Cornwall and actually learned to ride on a Bodmin Moor pony - they were basically Dartmoors then.  These days when I drive over the moors I'm struck by how many of the "wild" ponies are coloured.  You just didn't see them 30+ years ago. I have a book from the 1970s that states catagorically that coloureds are not acceptable in any true native British pony breed.  Most of the coloured ponies I see near to roads around my area are  bred by travellers and have rubbish conformation. Useful only for meat basically.  I therefore can't help but come to a conclusion about where the current Dartmoor/Bodmin ponies have come from.   Poor little souls.  I have no problem with breeding for the meat industry but this smacks of letting them breed wantonly, live in terrible conditions and be chased, terrifed, off the moors into wagons to be transported for slaughter.  Minimum outlay, maximum (although pretty paltry) profit and everything at the animal's expense. And that is WRONG.


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## suestowford (25 April 2013)

fatpiggy said:



			I have a book from the 1970s that states catagorically that coloureds are not acceptable in any true native British pony breed.
		
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Aren't Shetlands allowed to be coloured? I thought they were but I realise I could be wrong about this.


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## pip6 (25 April 2013)

These aren't a native breed, they are whatever the farmer wants to chuck out (often coloured or spotted to try & get more money at market). They are a cash crop, so they have no interest in culling numbers, castration or the ilke. They want them to breed so they can sell them to make money.

Bottom line is here (I',m between Bodmin & Dartmoor, cross Bodmin every day to work) the grass hasn't grown, so the farmers would need to put out extra feed. As the margins on these ponies (remember they are bred to make money like any other crop like lambs, cattle) are very small, so feeding them would mean they cost the farmers money. As a result they are just left. Some are alright (always a couple of indignant people stand up for the 'breed' bhp), most are just heinz 57's or native pony crosses, small, not well put together. If they were so good as recreational horses people would be beating a path to the sales to buy them. They don't. You'll get a few which are bigger/better, not many. There is no breed standard as they aren't a breed, bhp just means it was born on Bodmin, that's as far as it goes. Even farmers herds differ in type & colours. 

SWHP do a cracking job in dealing with hill pony welfare issues with little support. Licensing of breeding stock & control via castration is long overdue. There is nothing more miserable this time of year than driving over the moor & seeing a scrawny, poor mare who's ranged the same area for years with yet another foal at foot. People on here complained bitterly about branding of Exmoors, at least they aren't left to starve & have a future. Know I'd rather cope with a brand than left to starve to death on the moor.


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## Beentheredonethat (25 April 2013)

suestowford said:



			Aren't Shetlands allowed to be coloured? I thought they were but I realise I could be wrong about this.
		
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Shetlands can be any colour except spotted. They are the only native pony breed that can be broken coloured.


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## Lola43 (25 April 2013)

I agree with Pip6.  I see these ponies on a regular basis and it is shocking.  The farmers regard the ponies as livestock in the same way as cows and sheep - but worse, as they actually feed their cows and sheep. They will carry on allowing indiscriminate breeding if they think they can squeeze a profit out of it at some point.  If the ponies meanwhile starve to death, they couldn't care less.  They are too tightfisted to pay for them to be destroyed - why do that when DEFRA will do it for free? 

Unlike other livestock though, ponies are not regulated in the same way with tagging.  The farmers can get away with neglecting and starving them because they will never be identified as owners and therefore never have to take responsibility.  They know what is going on, and they don't care.  The only solution is compulsory identification - branding.  The farmers will be kicking and screaming all the way to their next subsidy cheque .....


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## Alec Swan (25 April 2013)

Lola43 said:



			.......  The only solution is compulsory identification - branding.   .....
		
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I'd check with the rspca first,  if I were you!  

For as long as we have Welfare Societies campaign against the commercial aspect of equine abattoirs,  so we will have horses which suffer.  They have little or no value,  in carcass terms,  so they are in reality,  a liability.  

Many of those who would purport to care for our equines are the ones responsible for this mess.

Alec.

ETS,  and as a footnote;  Hands up all those who've signed the Hillside petition to have Turners closed.  You are contributing to,  and exacerbating the problem.


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## Spook (25 April 2013)

Alec Swan is SO VERY right!!!


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## Spook (25 April 2013)

The rescuers and charities are exacerbating the problem too.

Time for the RSPCA WHW etc to offer a subsidised euthanasia service to owners and stop messing about!!. Or open an abbotoir themselves......


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## Maesfen (25 April 2013)

Spook said:



			The rescuers and charities are exacerbating the problem too.

Time for the RSPCA WHW etc to offer a subsidised euthanasia service to owners and stop messing about!!. Or open an abbotoir themselves......
		
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I agree but then they'd lose a lot of monetary support from fluffy bunnies who would hold their hands up in horror and find something else to donate to which the charities won't be willing to give up.  Being pro active in PTS would not be a good move on their part even though it would be the best thing for the neglected animals.  Poor animals are the losers whichever they choose.


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## Alec Swan (25 April 2013)

The best that many of our equine charities _(sic)_ can manage is to head a campaign to stop irresponsible breeding.  What the bloody fools don't realise is that those who they're aiming their campaign at,  can neither read nor write,  and even if they can,  they are all blissfully unaware of either the campaigns,  or the campaigners.  Lunacy.

Alec.


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## pip6 (26 April 2013)

I actually think they should set up a breed standard & register for bhp, then cull or forcably remove all non-registered horses from the moors. All horses should be branded, so the owners can be identified (at the moment famrers can disown them & there is no proof they own an animal therefore they can absolve themselves from the responsibility of feeding them or their welfare). Until all horses can be traced to owners, this will continue.

You can't regard these as farmers breeding to produce a riding horse. They are bred for meat (if you happen to buy one atmarket for riding that's fine, but not where most go). They are a disposable cash crop. If they aren't going to make money, they are dumped. There is no thought to what is being bred, as long as it has flesh on its bones it can be sold for meat.

Persoanlly I'd take all non-dartmoors of dartmoor as well. Dartmoor is a breed which has evolved to cope with the hard conditions, that is what should be found on the moors. Again all should be registered so abuse would be traceable.

Farmers have to be responsible for the rest of their stock, why not their ponies? If that requires branding, fine. I'd rather see a horse branded than starve to death. There is no such thing as an exmoor hill pony, which is as it should be. Dhp also should not exist, only Dartmoors.

The only charity who gives a monkeys about these ponies is SWEP. You'd never see the RSPCA out in winter on the moors trying to get feed to starving animals.

WRT subsidised euthanasia. The farmers wont pay to put them down, they'll just leave them on the moor to starve. If they can't sell them for profit, they are dumped. These aren't hard up horse owners concerned for their welfare. As I said before, they are bred as a cash crop to make money.


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## jrp204 (26 April 2013)

Maybe they should be eartagged, the smaller tags will only leave a small hole in the ear if it is removed (tag not ear).


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## Spook (26 April 2013)

As a rule almost ALL animals are bred as a "cash crop"..... puppies, kittens, calves, piglets and foals!!!!!!...... Quite a few fish and reptiles too. It may not be your buisness and it may be cash only transactions but unless you only breed to keep and do not sell off the siblings or parents you are as (guilty?) as the next man/woman. Do you all know where your sold animals are?  

So stop farmer bashing!!!!!!!  There are bad eggs in all walks of life.


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## jrp204 (26 April 2013)

Do you all know where your sold animals are?  

So stop farmer bashing!!!!!!!  There are bad eggs in all walks of life.[/QUOTE]

Yes they are in the abbatoir. 
Yes, there are good and bad farmers but i think the point is that these hill ponies actually have no commercial value, if they were a 'farm animal' as in cattle or sheep, being kept on the farmers holding and were worth nothing very few farmers would continue to keep them. But i do think there is an element of 'out of sight, out of mind' these ponies generally cost very little to keep, they are not routinely wormed, foot checked etc like most livestock. They also cost nothing to feed, unless the farmer brings in feed. They disappear onto the moors with no identity. In times of hardship, noone owns them, if they had a value the owners would soon reappear. Education is what is needed, the moors do need ponies, perhaps there should be a 'pony manager' someone who oversees the numbers of mares and stallions etc their 'owner' with their own identity mark (eartag). Any unmarked ponies could then be dispatched.


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## Maesfen (26 April 2013)

Oh Pip, I so agree with every word you've written and sadly, most of those farmers that have decided to 'crop' ponies for meat are the ones that would tend to have problems with their upkeep, both providing it and doing their best by them.



Spook said:



			As a rule almost ALL animals are bred as a "cash crop"..... puppies, kittens, calves, piglets and foals!!!!!!...... Quite a few fish and reptiles too. It may not be your buisness and it may be cash only transactions but unless you only breed to keep and do not sell off the siblings or parents you are as (guilty?) as the next man/woman. Do you all know where your sold animals are?  

So stop farmer bashing!!!!!!!  There are bad eggs in all walks of life.
		
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See my reply to Pip above Spooks.  It's not a general farmer bashing at all, only aimed at those who have proved beyond any doubt that they don't give two figs for their pony 'crop' and would rather toss them away to starve than feed and care for them.  This is not a new problem as you can see by these posts; I was down on Bodmin 5 years ago and they looked appalling then both in type, quality and health; it's only got worse.

For your records, of the 24 I have bred since 1985, there are only 2 I have lost touch with and all of mine are bred to sell at some point in their lives.  I still know where those I have bought in have gone onto as well so don't knock us all because we are breeding quality animals to sell.


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## lachlanandmarcus (26 April 2013)

It frustrates me that the welfare charities are still opposing visual branding in scenarios like this and vaguely whiffing on about maybe we can develop distance reading of microchips....and can't see that the momentary discomfort of branding ( additional to chip) for all ponies who are rightfully on the moor would help to protect the welfare of all the ponies on the moors, as those not branded who shouldn't be there would be so easy to identify and remove much more rapidly before the welfare issues arose.


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## pip6 (26 April 2013)

As it happen I do know where every animal I have sold is, & am in regular contact with their owners (as I get uhuge pelasure in seeing them enjoyed & the owners love to tell me what they are doing).

I'm not saying every farmer in the country is irresponsible. I am saying these herds are owned by farmers, & their attitude to their welfare is dependant on whether they will make money from them. If they are that concerned about them they could do something about the indiscriminate breeding they promote in order to make some money from their cash horse crop. Too many animals on the moors does not benefit the ecosystem. Propoer control over numbers & breeding is essential, as it the tracability of every animal. If 'owners' wont voluntarily take on the responsibility for the basic welfare of the animals, then they should be liable to prosecution as much as if it were a sheep for example.

This really does wind me up, seeing them every day is heartbreaking.


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## applecart14 (26 April 2013)

Sad but typical Daily Mail sensationalising as usual. This needed to be done.


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## Inthemud (26 April 2013)

Spook said:



			The rescuers and charities are exacerbating the problem too.

Time for the RSPCA WHW etc to offer a subsidised euthanasia service to owners and stop messing about!!. Or open an abbotoir themselves......
		
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It is ironic that if the RSPCA DID open an abattoir/ free euthanisation clinic, under strict and enforced welfare guidelines, they would, at a stroke, do more to reduce animal suffering than they could in a hundred years of their current way of functioning.

But then of course, the fluffies wouldn't leave them so much money in their wills....


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## hackneylass2 (26 April 2013)

ETS, and as a footnote; Hands up all those who've signed the Hillside petition to have Turners closed. You are contributing to, and exacerbating the problem.

My hand is up Teach'.  Turners was not exactly  a pinnacle of animal welfare,  what I saw of it on the video it was disgraceful.

__________________
Hands up all those who've campaigned to have equine abattoirs closed. You are contributing to and exacerbating a worsening problem. 


There IS a difference......  Right, back to my lines.


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## Oldenburg27 (26 April 2013)

Honeylight said:



			The Mail really does over do the pictures once again.
		
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A photo speaks a thousand word, Its all very sad but its th kindest thing that could happen to them....


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## suestowford (27 April 2013)

pip6 said:



			Persoanlly I'd take all non-dartmoors of dartmoor as well. Dartmoor is a breed which has evolved to cope with the hard conditions, that is what should be found on the moors. Again all should be registered so abuse would be traceable.

Dhp also should not exist, only Dartmoors.



The only charity who gives a monkeys about these ponies is SWEP. You'd never see the RSPCA out in winter on the moors trying to get feed to starving animals.
		
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Please take a look at the website for the Friends of the Dartmoor Hill Pony. Another charity (as well as the Mare & Foal Sanctuary) who give a monkeys about these ponies. They may not be out there doling out hay like SWEP do but all these smaller charities are working in different ways to improve this situation.
One of the reasons there are still ponies on the moor is that they are excellent at eating and keeping unwanted vegetation down. The Park Authority agrees. So if all the non-Dartmoors were taken off, who would do all the eating? I doubt there are enough pure-bred Dartmoor ponies to do it. I agree it would be good if this were to happen but I think it's going to take time and consistent effort on the part of the local pony charities, the breeders and the National Park to make it so.



jrp204 said:



			Maybe they should be eartagged, the smaller tags will only leave a small hole in the ear if it is removed (tag not ear).
		
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Isn't ear tagging horses and ponies illegal?


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## Alec Swan (27 April 2013)

hackneylass2 said:



			ETS, and as a footnote; Hands up all those who've signed the Hillside petition to have Turners closed. You are contributing to, and exacerbating the problem.

My hand is up Teach'.  Turners was not exactly  a pinnacle of animal welfare,  what I saw of it on the video it was disgraceful.

__________________
Hands up all those who've campaigned to have equine abattoirs closed. You are contributing to and exacerbating a worsening problem. 


There IS a difference......  Right, back to my lines.
		
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I'm not supporting the treatment which was viewed.  Some of it was everyday slaughterhouse work,  and some of the complaints were twaddle,  one aspect of it was distressing,  even for those hardened to such things.  It's an abattoir,  you'd hardly be likely to take your children there for a picnic. 

Turners needs a change of management,  a change of regime,  and a focused and monitored approach to their work.  There needs to be a complete change of emphasis and ethos.  Turners do not need shutting down.  Subjecting the animals which end up there,  to an existence,  is the greater cruelty.

As a matter of interest,  when you signed the petition,  did you make a donation?  Were you at the time asked for a donation,  and have you subsequently been asked for donations?

I'm no one's "Teach".

Alec.


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## jrp204 (27 April 2013)

No idea if tagging is illegal, if it is, why? If animal is bred predominately for meat what is wrong with it having a tag in its ear? Ok, someone may buy a pony off the moor with an ear tag in, remove the tag it may leave a small hole but would it matter?
Why is it ok for sheep and cattle to be tagged and not horses?


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## Natch (27 April 2013)

Sadly I worry that this article will achieve the own goal of inspiring "rescuers" (people who can't afford to and don't know how to care for horses) to rescue horses from the "terrible fate" of euthanasia.


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## pip6 (29 April 2013)

Think the decline in dp due to the proliferation of dhp personally. They are essetntial, but the moor can also be overburdened by too many equines. Maybe there could be a phasing using only dp stallions to bring back the type over time?

What gets me is the irresponsibility & throw away attitude. If they were treated as well as other stock their lot would be greatly improved. I'm not saying they can't be farmed for profit, but basic needs such as sufficient food not to starve are a must.


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## Alec Swan (29 April 2013)

pip6 said:



			.......

What gets me is the irresponsibility & throw away attitude. If they were treated as well as other stock their lot would be greatly improved. I'm not saying they can't be farmed for profit, ........
		
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*If* the carcass had an end value,  then they would be treated as "other stock".  

*For* the carcass to have an end value,  we need a properly run and managed slaughter system,  etc.....!

Simply lecturing others (however well intentioned),  isn't enough.  We need a proper and fit disposal system in place,  I feel certain.

Alec.


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## suestowford (29 April 2013)

jrp204 said:



			No idea if tagging is illegal, if it is, why? If animal is bred predominately for meat what is wrong with it having a tag in its ear? Ok, someone may buy a pony off the moor with an ear tag in, remove the tag it may leave a small hole but would it matter?
Why is it ok for sheep and cattle to be tagged and not horses?
		
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I was sure I'd read it on H&H, and here it is! http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/earmarking-ban-must-be-enforced-say-vets/

No idea why it's OK for cattle/sheep etc but not for horses. Possibly something to do with the useless DEFRA.


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## Alec Swan (29 April 2013)

suestowford said:



			I was sure I'd read it on H&H, and here it is! http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/earmarking-ban-must-be-enforced-say-vets/

No idea why it's OK for cattle/sheep etc but not for horses. Possibly something to do with the useless DEFRA.
		
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Thanks for that.  So ear-notching and tagging are both illegal,  are they?  According to your quoted article,  it's the BVA,  not DEFRA,  this time.  Ear-notching and branding are no different in the cruelty stakes,  and if it's ok for sheep and cattle,  what sets horses apart?  I wonder if those in office ever think first,  before they hand down such stupid edicts.  We're being governed by idiots.

Alec.


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## MotherOfChickens (29 April 2013)

I think there has been some research carried out on the sort of injury that can occur with horses and ear tags and cattle/sheep with ear tags and it was shown not suitable for horses. This was all discussed ad nauseam on lots of forums when they discussed banning the branding of Exmoor ponies. I will try and track it down-I am not opposed to branding myself although I think the number of brands needed reviewing.


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## amandap (29 April 2013)

I'd be interested in the research peteralfred. I suppose cattle don't have to then wear bridles, head collars and have their ears clipped etc. as well. Horses seem especially sensitive re their ears and heads at the best of times. It can take a while for them to be retrained when ear twitched etc.


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## suestowford (29 April 2013)

Oops, I'm so used to cursing flipping DEFRA it's become a default setting. Must try harder...


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## lachlanandmarcus (29 April 2013)

I think horses ears are too sensitive compared with cattle and sheep for ear tags to be appropriate. Also most cattle and sheep only have them in for a few years before they are slaughtered, which wouldn't be the case with horses. 

I would support anything which improved long term welfare even if there was momentary or short term discomfort rather than something which could cause ongoing irritation or injury.


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## Spook (29 April 2013)

"Billy" my childrens 2nd pony was both branded and had an ear notch (tip actually off)....... neither ever bothered him, he was a fabulous pony.

Having had a number of foals implanted with identichips and seen branding......  I think the chipping is far worse from a pain point of view, foals very shy aftrerwards and pain/soreness for quite some time..... and on the neck, so makes handling difficult..... On another note I think that when a "loss of use" is paid out there should be a very obvious identifiying mark..... ear notch?? perhaps.

Untill there is an improvement in horse prices there will be horses dumped...... there are plenty of useless free horses available and a few good ones too.


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## Welly (29 April 2013)

Why don't the commoners rule that all ponies have to come off the moor for one month, say January.  This way all the ponies could be checked and any 'poor' ponies could be dealt with, also we would know the "dumped" ones as they would be left on the moor and they could be dealt with another way. This would mean that all the owners would have to own up to their responsibilities and feed/care for their ponies for at least one month of the year.


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## competitiondiva (30 April 2013)

Spook said:



			The rescuers and charities are exacerbating the problem too.

Time for the RSPCA WHW etc to offer a subsidised euthanasia service to owners and stop messing about!!. Or open an abbotoir themselves......
		
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what when they already come under fire for having to PTS so many already????!!!! (shocked face) it shouldn't be for a 'charity' to have to do this, I agree with the fact of euthanasia as we in the UK are in a major crisis right now, but it cannot be left for a charity to do this.  Defra and local authorities need to tackle these sorts of issues as they have in this instance.  We pay for them in our council tax after all.....


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## competitiondiva (30 April 2013)

Inthemud said:



			It is ironic that if the RSPCA DID open an abattoir/ free euthanisation clinic, under strict and enforced welfare guidelines, they would, at a stroke, do more to reduce animal suffering than they could in a hundred years of their current way of functioning.

But then of course, the fluffies wouldn't leave them so much money in their wills....
		
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and so in turn they would cease to exist...... mmmm am sure alot of people here maybe happy at that thought, but who'd plug the hole?????


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## competitiondiva (30 April 2013)

Welly said:



			Why don't the commoners rule that all ponies have to come off the moor for one month, say January.  This way all the ponies could be checked and any 'poor' ponies could be dealt with, also we would know the "dumped" ones as they would be left on the moor and they could be dealt with another way. This would mean that all the owners would have to own up to their responsibilities and feed/care for their ponies for at least one month of the year.
		
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good idea me thinks.....


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## hackneylass2 (1 May 2013)

Good idea, an even better one would be for all ponies to be off the moor.  The basic free for all has ruined the breed ...(Hill Ponies my ass!)and its left to owners with their own land to breed true.

If the moor needs grazing the relevant authorities can introduce a select amount of ponies to graze as they have done in other areas.  Commoners rights have a lot to answer for, and the low end market and no proper minimum value law is just feeding the fire.


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## pip6 (1 May 2013)

Alec, come live down here & witness these poor animals every day as I do & you'd also be preaching from a soap box. 

This story, which rightfully so made a national paper didn't make any local rags that I saw or the local news. It isn't very uncommon. Says it all, it is a regional disgrace.


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## hackneylass2 (2 May 2013)

Pip6,  maybe the local media are scared that it will affect tourism in the area.  If so, shame on them.


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## jrp204 (2 May 2013)

pip6 said:



			Alec, come live down here & witness these poor animals every day as I do & you'd also be preaching from a soap box. 

This story, which rightfully so made a national paper didn't make any local rags that I saw or the local news. It isn't very uncommon. Says it all, it is a regional disgrace.
		
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It was in the western morning news and on Spotlight, so hardly left unreported.


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## rascal (4 May 2013)

Welly said:



			Why don't the commoners rule that all ponies have to come off the moor for one month, say January.  This way all the ponies could be checked and any 'poor' ponies could be dealt with, also we would know the "dumped" ones as they would be left on the moor and they could be dealt with another way. This would mean that all the owners would have to own up to their responsibilities and feed/care for their ponies for at least one month of the year.
		
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Great idea. 

Our old horse came from bodmin and he was in terrible condition, turned out to be the most honest, sweet horse ever. We had him for 27yrs.


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## Alec Swan (4 May 2013)

pip6 said:



			Alec, come live down here & witness these poor animals every day as I do & you'd also be preaching from a soap box. 

This story, which rightfully so made a national paper didn't make any local rags that I saw or the local news. It isn't very uncommon. Says it all, it is a regional disgrace.
		
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We don't have much in the way of "Commoners Grazing" here in Norfolk,  but in the west country,  where it does exist,  it must be very difficult,  assuming the reports to be correct,  to see ponies pacing fence lines,  because they're starving,  and equally difficult to ignore them.

We have Trading Standards who's remit includes ALL forms of animal welfare,  and they also have a right of entry to privately owned land,  and it's THEY who should be addressing this problem.  We have a Farm Team at our local TS office,  and believe me,  they have teeth,  and they fear no one.

I suppose that the course which was taken was the correct one,  but it should be unthinkable for people to either breed of buy these ponies,  and then inflict a life of winter misery on them.  I agree with everyone,  it's a disgrace.

Alec.


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