# The Further Decline of the Hunting Fraternity...



## Blairite (29 July 2007)

I am glad to see since my last visit here, that hunting with hounds seems to be very much on the decline. The Hunting Fraternity still struggle to come to terms with the fact. But it is plain for all to see. 

We should realise by now that the Nature of the BEAST never changes where the Hunting Fraternity are concerned. 

I noted with interest that the latest issue of Horse&amp;Hound magazine had very little content as regards hunting. I suspect that is because there is very little to put in it these days. 

Tally ho! 

Lord_Blairite


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## Fox_Hunter1 (29 July 2007)

Or maybe because it's summer and noone (bar the minkhounds) are actually hunting at the moment.twat


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## severnmiles (29 July 2007)

A few weeks and you come autumn hunting if you fancy LB...see the support first hand then... :smirk:


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## Tinkerbee (29 July 2007)

All quiet here atm....what with it being out of season and all...

though when i get back home will be doing some more "work"  with the terriers

and come autumn we will all be out again :grin:


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## severnmiles (29 July 2007)

Can I join you TB?

Ireland, hunting is still legal, wolfdogs are legal and immigration is tighter...  What am I still doing here? LOL


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## Tinkerbee (29 July 2007)

Course ya can 

hell, we can do almost anything we like


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## Chumsmum (29 July 2007)

Roll on Autumn!!


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## kirstyhen (29 July 2007)

What was the report on the Peterborough Festival of Hunting about if alls quiet on the hunting front!? Have to say boxing day at my hunt was so quiet, only a hundred or so horses and far more on foot.... Cant wait for autumn, with all this wet weather my boy thinks he should be out already!!!  :grin:


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## oakash (29 July 2007)

Ha-ha, Blairite! I think thou jests!

What I think you mean is that the anti-hunting case is on its last legs, folded due to overwhelming evidence that it was based only on prejudice and bigotry! Like your name, it is out of date and very 'yesterday'. Haven't you heard that old GB may even overturn the stupid Hunting Act 2004 himself?


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## RunToEarth (30 July 2007)

I said it right from the day it was banned- I give it 5years- if that, before the government finally pulls the finger out, and turns its eye to terrorists, taxation and relevant points instead of crusing the coutry to ask our masters if we are within the law, to which of course the answer will always remain yes sir, until sir doesnt care anymore.


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## wurzel (30 July 2007)

I think you are right Blairite.

I will bear it in mind whilst cubbing next month.

Are you another Londoner by any chance?


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## soggy (30 July 2007)

Come come Adge surely you remember Blairite and his many guises from off the old BBC Science and Nature forums along with his alter ego Badgerbanger.

He lives in Blackheath SE London and claims to be Mrs Becketts  toyboy.


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## PERMIAN (31 July 2007)

:grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:

Well, well, I see we have another convicted criminal within the hunting brigade.  Convicted yesterday (30-07-07) at Prestatyn Magistrates Court, North Wales.  These people who break the law will pay the penalty and those who think they are above the law, are not.  Congratulations to the Police Officer involved in bringing this criminal to justice.  It is not the first time hunt members, hunt supporters, terriermen and others involved in fieldsports have been convicted in the courts of offences against wildlife ( as well as serious assaults against hunt monitors) in the countryside.  The Hunting Act of 2004 is now starting to yield fruit with other convictions secured recently.  One can only look forward to the start of the cub-hunting season with glee at the thought of other hunting fraternity members being brought before the courts and successfully prosecuted for acts of cruelty against our wildlife.  I really do have to laugh at the thought of these hunt supporters, members being classed as "pillars of society" when some of them have now been convicted in the courts and have criminal records.

Long live the Hunting Act of 2004 and let's hope more abusers of of our wildlife are convicted in the courts.

For more detailed information on yesterdays criminal conviction in North Wales:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/north_east/6922427.stm


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## wurzel (31 July 2007)

Yes the hunting act of 2004 is certainly effective.

2004 was it?

And here we are in 2007 and how many members of hunts have been convicted ?

Three ?

Four ?

And have any of those jail birds stopped hunting?

They have not have they ?

Yes, we are hound exercising and cubbing soon.

I look forward to my arrest and subsequent fine of what? An average days pay?

I am beside myself with terror  !!!!


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## wrighty (31 July 2007)

Small victories.
First there was the ban, then the odd conviction and then who knows.

Tom, I've said this to others who brag about breaking the law, if you're not worried about it, send me your name, address and when you're planning to do it and I will do my best to get down and help the police with thier enquiries.


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## soggy (31 July 2007)

Is it actually a criminal conviction.?

I don't think it is. Its a contravention of an ACT not a crime.

I'm sure one of the sites legal wizards could shed some light on the matter.

As Tom has said £260-00 inclusive of costs. Bet the F&amp;D raised that in about 30mins of passing the hat around. 

Hell I'll even send the hunt sec a cheque to pass on to the fund. I've done the same for the only 3 prior unfortunates.


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## wrighty (31 July 2007)

Yes, he went against the Act, which is against the law (A crime), he admitted guilt therefore guilty of that crime therefore a criminal conviction.
It is not an arrestable offence so he cannot be arrested by members of the public unless he threatened or attacted someone while breaking the law.


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## soggy (31 July 2007)

Tom, I've said this to others who brag about breaking the law, if you're not worried about it, send me your name, address and when you're planning to do it and I will do my best to get down and help the police with thier enquiries.
		
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As has been often found Wrighty! 

You best just ain't good enough. 
How many times has Giles been out chasing deer with his dogs in the full knowledge of just about everyman and his dog. yet still no sign of any case against him.

Words with out deeds are just cheap words, and carry no value at the end of the day. Actions and actions alone speak volumes, and are worth a fortune in gold.

So come on its time to divi up. )


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## soggy (31 July 2007)

Wrighty

I think your wrong on both counts. But I'm no legal beagle. and I'm guessing neither are you.


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## wrighty (31 July 2007)

Giles? Giles Bradshaw?
I didn't know Tom and Giles were the same person, I've already tried to get his details but heard nothing.

Like I posted on his YouTube vids, I actually thanked him for making hunt supporters look that little bit stranger with his failed attempts at getting support for his e-petitions.


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## soggy (31 July 2007)

Tom and Giles are not the same person. As I suspected you're not that well informed.

Giles makes no secret of his location, he has even published dates and times when he will be in the act so to speak. 

Tom, grand fellow that he is, makes no secret of his local either. Apparently he's pretty hard to miss being a big fella as well.

So why not gather up your bed of nails and have a trip down to the West Country, Stag hunting and cubbing should provide you with all the evidence you require. Details of the meet venues are even published in the local press I believe. 

Or are you just full of empty words? 

Silly question really. Of course you are!


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## wrighty (31 July 2007)

I am not that well informed as it was you that mentioned Giles' name while I was asking Tom for details, as I said I didn't know Tom was Giles and now I know he isn't.

The problem with Giles is that he says one thing in chatrooms and on forums and then others in the press, one is harder to prove identity than the other.
I recall him saying he doesn't hunt, just scares them off his land with his 4 dogs.
He says he is above the law but tries to hide his face when just talking about breaking the law on YouTube.
He says he will give people his address but as far as I knoew he hasn't sent to anyone, I know for a fact he hasn't sent it to me.

"gather up your bed of nails "
I must be a bit slow, I don't own a bed of nails.


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## Tinkerbee (31 July 2007)

Y'all welcome to come out hunting with me this august :grin:

all legal though  In good old norn iron.

the one thing our "country" can do well....


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## severnmiles (31 July 2007)

God help Herefordshire Wrighty...Fox_Hunter1...where've you gone?  Not doing a very good job of culling pests in my former county are you   :grin:


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## Fox_Hunter1 (31 July 2007)

I wouldnt go out with the Ledbury Wrighty, the terriermen their are some crazy mofos!lol


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## severnmiles (31 July 2007)

I wouldnt go out with the Ledbury Wrighty, the terriermen their are some crazy mofos!lol
		
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What you telling him that for?  Should be encouraging him   :smirk:


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## wrighty (31 July 2007)

Its good to see that you're thinly hiding hints about violence/warnings towards me.
It is lucky I believe in pasive resistance towards violence, until it becomes dangerous, then I use everything within the law to protect myself and others.


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## wurzel (31 July 2007)

Send you my name?

how?


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## wurzel (31 July 2007)

Ooooh you sound a bit tasty !!!

i don't think I am allowed to give out my actual address, nudge nudge, wink wink !!

But I can frequently be found at

Spangate Farm
Wootton Courtenay
Minehead
Somerset
TA24 7TR

No streetlights mind, so if you find things a bit creepy sneaking about in your balaclava's and air force DP's...... I can usually be found in the Lion at Timberscombe

Will it be like Tombstone You can be Ike Clanton.

I will be Wyatt Earp. it may be hard to get Doc Holliday out of the Lion.... but i do have my bro's Jim, Virgil, morgan and warren. And Bat Masterson of course!


Ooooh my knees are a knocking !!!!!

And when I am hunting............bring the finest of Mineheads law-men !!

Yeeeee- Haaaa


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## severnmiles (31 July 2007)

You've brightened up my day TF!


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## severnmiles (31 July 2007)

Within the law...what a joke!


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## wurzel (31 July 2007)

And you can work the saloon honey !!!!

Just like Big-nose Kate !!!!

you and i darlin, a brandin and castratin steers and beeves at midnight under an Exmoor moon.

So romantic.

Hand me them thar castratin irons cow girl !!!!!!!!!

I done caught me a wrighty !!

a wrigglin an a squealin like a little swine ready for a spit roastin

my oh my !!!!!!!!!



Keep movin', movin', movin', 
Though they're disapprovin', 
Keep them doggies movin' Rawhide! 
Don't try to understand 'em, 
Just rope and throw and grab 'em, 
Soon we'll be living high and wide. 
Boy my heart's calculatin' 
My true love will be waitin', be waiting at the end of my ride. 

Move 'em on, head 'em up, 
Head 'em up, move 'em out, 
Move 'em on, head 'em out Rawhide! 
Set 'em out, ride 'em in 
Ride 'em in, let 'em out, 
Cut 'em out, ride 'em in Rawhide.


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## wrighty (31 July 2007)

No need to get all scared n stuff, Like I said I will just come down to see you brave law breakers do your stuff, I won't be hiding my face or stalking you through the woods.

As for "Within the law...what a joke!"
Yes, within the law, I don't believe in violence against anyone or anything but I will defend myself if needed, using the minimal force required to prevent any harm to myself or others.


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## Tinkerbee (31 July 2007)

*rolls eyes* bloody hell....

prevent any harm....then....

just punch em


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## severnmiles (31 July 2007)

Scared?   Come down!  You're more than welcome, I'll recommend a few meets where the Bara Brith is top notch and you can see modern hunting first hand!


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## severnmiles (31 July 2007)

PMSL!  TF I'd love to get drunk with you, I bet you're a real laugh!


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## Eagle_day (1 August 2007)

"I don't believe in violence against anyone or anything but I will defend myself if needed, using the minimal force required to prevent any harm to myself or others."

So you don't believe in violence but you would use it?

Not exactly Mahatma are you?


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## wrighty (1 August 2007)

"some dirty Mexicans"
"i'll send my negro Napoleaon out to get ya !!!"
No need for bigotted comments.

"old fatigues and greasy dreadlocks"
Another assumption about Anti's? Because someone believes animals should be protected you think they are hippies and dress in combats?

"So you don't believe in violence but you would use it?"
No, I wouldn't use violence, I would use the appropriate amount of force.


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## severnmiles (1 August 2007)

"old fatigues and greasy dreadlocks"
Another assumption about Anti's? Because someone believes animals should be protected you think they are hippies and dress in combats?
		
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TF spoke in jest.  You and I both know that the dreadlock comment is about as true as all hunting folk being toffs.




			"So you don't believe in violence but you would use it?"
No, I wouldn't use violence, I would use the appropriate amount of force.
		
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But what if the 'appropriate' amount of force was considered to be violent?


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## wrighty (1 August 2007)

"But what if the 'appropriate' amount of force was considered to be violent?"
Well in the end that is down to the police/courts to decide. The use of a fist to the face IMO is violence but the use of a fist to other parts of the body to stop an attack is appropriate, it's all about knowing what is classed as self defence and reasonable force.
For example, 
Someone using a whip to hit you, you can defend yourself by removing the whip from the attacker using reasonable force.(Self Defence)
Someone using a whip in a threatening manner, if you feel in direct threat from that person with the whip you can pre-empt the attack and defend yourself by removing the whip from the attacker using reasonable force. (Self Defence)
After the whip has been removed and the attacker is no longer a threat you cannot continue to use force on this person, if you do it is illegal (Assault) UNLESS you clearly state that you are arresting that person for the assault. Using the whip you have just removed to hit your attacker would usually be classed as assault (Very difficult to justify this)

Need anymore information on this?
Next lesson will be on ways of dealing with trespass.


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## severnmiles (1 August 2007)

I feel any physical contact is violent.


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## wrighty (1 August 2007)

well, with respect, you are wrong.
When the police arrest someone and use force it is not violence. (Well, officialy they are not supposed to be violent)


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## severnmiles (1 August 2007)

So GBH or ABH isn't violence?


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## wrighty (1 August 2007)

Yes they are, not used much these days, different naming for different types of assault.
Assault is the illegal use of force.


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## severnmiles (1 August 2007)

I feel assault is still violence, otherwise you are contradicting Endy's post further down insinuating hunting folk are violent wife beaters...


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## wrighty (1 August 2007)

Assault is violence, using self defence to protect yourself  and others is not, it is using legal force.
Like I said earlier punching someone is violence, even in self defence as it is a very inaffective way of stopping someone.

I have never said hunters are violent wife beaters, the 1 arrested was tho. Some might generalise about things like that or stereotype people but I dont, people calling me a hippy because I am anti hunting is wrong, calling all hunters wife beaters is wrong as it isnt true.


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## Blairite (1 August 2007)

As Severnmiles saidabout the Horse and Hound Rag: &lt;&lt;I'm glad you're starting this, OH had just stopped buying it because of the lack of hunting snippets over the summer...I'm sure he'll buy todays edition though&gt;&gt;

Evidence that the decline of hunting is now well under way. I have read many posts from the Hunting Fraternity here about how they intend to break the law and their veiled threats of violence and general thuggery. But then we know, the nature of the beast never changes! 

I am sure all of you will join with me in welcoming the new Secretary of State for Environment, The Rt. Hon Hillary Benn MP, to the post and let us behold his steadfast approach. I am sure he will continue with the modernisation and general no-nonsense approach first witnessed with the arrival of the former Formidable Secretary of State, Mrs. Beckett and continued by the indomitable Secretary of State, David Miliband. I am sure the Steadfast Mr. Benn will champion the Hunting Act 2004 and ensure that further legislation, if necessary, is implemented to deal effectively with the Hunting Fraternity and their ilk. 

Regards

Lord_Blairite


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## soggy (1 August 2007)

Assault is violence, using self defence to protect yourself  and others is not, it is using legal force.
		
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Pure semantics.




			Like I said earlier punching someone is violence, even in self defence as it is a very inaffective way of stopping someone.
		
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LMAO Make your mind up. You have just advocated punching someone in order to protect yourself from a whipping. Personal experience has demonstrated that punching someone in the correct place with sufficient force is a very effective way of stopping someone. I still have their front tooth to prove it. 




			people calling me a hippy because I am anti hunting is wrong,
		
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Not in my book it's not.


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## severnmiles (1 August 2007)

No, not evidence at all.  All that says is their is an increase in horse sport and a niche for Equine gossip.  We have hounds magazine to get our fix of hunting, thats still full to the brim.

Royal Welsh hound parade nearly deafened me, the support was tremendous.  The proof is in the pudding (how many are still turning out in all weathers to support their local hunt) and not how many pages of hunting is written in the no longer aptly named Horse and Hound.

And god you must be bored!  I wrote that months ago - must have taken ages to find!


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## soggy (1 August 2007)

Yawn yawn.

So predictable!

The cracked record never changes does it Blairite. Same monotonous drone, same wearisome drivel, same banal uninspired claptrap, same contrieved and unoriginal phrases.

Why not try a change for once in your sad, bleak, lonesome, unforfilled little life, and come up with something new. 
Life pushing that tea trolley around at the ministry and licking any junior ministers backside that happens to pass by must be see demeaning and soul destroying for you.


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## Blairite (1 August 2007)

&lt;&lt;No, not evidence at all.  All that says is their is an increase in horse sport and a niche for Equine gossip.  We have hounds magazine to get our fix of hunting, thats still full to the brim.&gt;&gt;

You must be very happy in that dream world of yours. Its nearly over - face it! 

&lt;&lt;Royal Welsh hound parade nearly deafened me, the support was tremendous.  The proof is in the pudding (how many are still turning out in all weathers to support their local hunt)&gt;&gt;

A Hunting Fraternity rent-a-mob is hardly proof that hunting continues to flourish. No, sorry, but the glory days of the Hunting Fraternity are well and truly over. Almost brings a tear to one's eye, doesn't it? 

&lt;&lt;and not how many pages of hunting is written in the no longer aptly named Horse and Hound.&gt;&gt;

As you say, no longer aptly named, now that hunting with hounds is an illegal act. Outlaws in your own areas! 

&lt;&lt;And god you must be bored!  I wrote that months ago - must have taken ages to find!&gt;&gt;

Not really. It is the first post in the list. 

Lord_Blairite

Britain is Working!


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## soggy (1 August 2007)

SM

What you need to realise is that Blairite is one of the sad and lonely losers, who hoard and file everything in their pathetic lives.

What else would they do to fill the endless days and nights of utter loneliness and tedium, that make up their putrid lacklustre lives?

Apart from rescue stray feral cats by the dozen.


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## Blairite (1 August 2007)

&lt;&lt;The cracked record never changes does it Blairite. Same monotonous drone, same wearisome drivel, same banal uninspired claptrap, same contrieved and unoriginal phrases.
Why not try a change for once in your sad, bleak, lonesome, unforfilled little life, and come up with something new.&gt;&gt;

LOLOL! Tiggy, why don't you take your own advice, with regards changing the record and apply that to your droning about how hunting is so great. Clearly, it should now be "was" great, past tense.  

&lt;&lt;Life pushing that tea trolley around at the ministry and licking any junior ministers backside that happens to pass by must be see demeaning and soul destroying for you.&gt;&gt;

ROTFLMFAO!!!! I am very happy where I am at the moment. As I said the Steadfast Hillary Benn is our man now. 

Regards

Lord_Blairite

Labour: Securing Britains Future!


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## Blairite (1 August 2007)

&lt;&lt;What you need to realise is that Blairite is one of the sad and lonely losers, who hoard and file everything in their pathetic lives.&gt;&gt;

ROTFLMFAO!!!!! LOLOLOL!!! If only I were that organised Tiggy. 

&lt;&lt;What else would they do to fill the endless days and nights of utter loneliness and tedium, that make up their putrid lacklustre lives?&gt;&gt;

I can think of plenty! 

&lt;&lt;Apart from rescue stray feral cats by the dozen.&gt;&gt;

I wonder what became of Pippy? She was a lovely person. I wonder if she is still involved with Celia Hammond. 

Regards

Lord_Blairite

Labour: Securing Britains Future!


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## severnmiles (1 August 2007)

No time to reply properly as pigs/horses/chicken/ dogs to feed and haylage bales to check for holes but had to quote you on this:

"Labour: Securing Britains Future!"

This country has gone to the dogs...look at crime/NHS/Iraq/Education/Immigration/Prisons/Countryside - Blair c*cked the country up and then handed the reins over to his sidekick.

Name one thing GREAT about Great Britain....


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## severnmiles (1 August 2007)

ROTFLMFAO!!!!! LOLOLOL!!! If only I were that organised Tiggy.
		
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Clearly touched a sore point didn't you Sogs  :smirk:


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## soggy (1 August 2007)

ROTFLMFAO!!!! I am very happy where I am at the moment. As I said the Steadfast Hillary Benn is our man now.
		
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I'm sure you are, given you obvious tendencies. Why else would you take a job that required you to lick backsides?


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## soggy (1 August 2007)

Certainly did    :grin:


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## wrighty (1 August 2007)

"Pure semantics." NO, Law. Read my earlier post.

"You have just advocated punching someone in order to protect yourself from a whipping" Wrong, I said you can use force to remove it, I said nothin about punching someone to do it.

"Personal experience has demonstrated that punching someone in the correct place with sufficient force is a very effective way of stopping someone. I still have their front tooth to prove it"
All that proves is that you are a violent person and a strange one at that keeping the teeth as a trophy.

"




			people calling me a hippy because I am anti hunting is wrong,
		
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Not in my book it's not."
So working through your own logic you are saying all hunters are wife beaters?
(MY FULL ENTRY IF YOU WANT TO SEE IT)
"I have never said hunters are violent wife beaters, the 1 arrested was tho. Some might generalise about things like that or stereotype people but I dont, people calling me a hippy because I am anti hunting is wrong, calling all hunters wife beaters is wrong as it isnt true."

Oh and by the way, seeing I have little or no hair it would be incorrect to put me into a hippy or "greasy dreadlocks" pigeon hole, and NO I am not a skin head as that generalisation implies I am a violent racist, which I am not either.


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## Blairite (1 August 2007)

&lt;&lt;This country has gone to the dogs...look at crime/NHS/Iraq/Education/Immigration/Prisons/Countryside - Blair c*cked the country up and then handed the reins over to his sidekick.&gt;&gt;

Poor, deluded Severnmiles. I am grateful for the opportunity to reply. Lets look at the areas you have listed. 

Crime - Overall crime is DOWN by 30%, using the Polices own figures (British Crime Survey) 

NHS - The budget has nearly tripled, we have never had so many doctors and nurses, of course there are difficulties, but we are the party to overcome them. 

Iraq - A fledgling democracy. Slowly stabilising and back on track to becoming the proud nation it once was. 

Education - The budget has more than doubled. Teachers pay has never been so high. Overall support for SEN/Behaviour has never been so good. Results are the best in history at GCSE, A-Level and even at ages 7 and 11. (SATs) 

Immigration - A well balanced policy. A compassionate policy as well. Immigration is doing wonders for the UKs booming economy. Of course there are abuses and we must continue to seek those out and deal with them in the proper way. 

Prisons - Tough decisions need to be made after years of Tory mismanagement poor funding. Jack Straw, the new Justice secretary will ensure those decisions are made. Much work is being done in conjuction with the HM Prison Service and new Prisons are being built to ease the problem of overcrowding. This can only be done through real terms investment we've put in. 

Countryside - Rivals any in the world! DEFRA have done a wonderful job in securing the right economic conditions for success, now and for the long term. The reforms brought in by the former Formidable Secretary of State, Mrs. Beckett, meant that farmers had to be more accountable for their livestock and the treatment of them. She also made the conditions in which farmers could sit back and think to themselves "we've never had it so good" Blair also did a good job fighting the CAP and the ridiculous demands of the French Government. 

&lt;&lt;Name one thing GREAT about Great Britain.... &gt;&gt;

The Monarchy!

Regards

Lord_Blairite

Vote Labour!


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## wrighty (1 August 2007)

"Iraq - A fledgling democracy. Slowly stabilising and back on track to becoming the proud nation it once was."

I don't agree with that 1 bit, I've not a clue on the rest of it but I know we've managed to **** up Iraq.


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## Blairite (1 August 2007)

"Iraq - A fledgling democracy. Slowly stabilising and back on track to becoming the proud nation it once was."

I don't agree with that 1 bit, I've not a clue on the rest of it but I know we've managed to **** up Iraq.
		
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I wouldn't believe all you see on the news Wrighty. Much is being done to stabilise the state. Have no doubt, mistakes have been made. Sacking the Iraqi police force and the armed forces was one of them! But this was never going to be an easy situation and there can be no quick fixes. 

Regards

Lord_Blairite


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## wrighty (1 August 2007)

True, there are no quick fixes, the problem was we thought there would be.
The war was planned out to the second, everyone knew what would happen, we win, the plans for peace were cobbled together not taking into account the divisions between the Iraq population.

I don't believe what I see in the press on this or any subject. I listen to people who kow what they are talking about and the people in the firing line, literaly.


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## Blairite (1 August 2007)

Very true and well said Wrighty. 

Regards

Lord_Blairite


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## severnmiles (1 August 2007)

You're the deluded one sweetheart, you do realise that all of the stats realeased are given in a 'positive' way, percentages, facts, figures are twisted and written in a way to please the public..what they don't know about won't hurt them.

Re. the countryside, Defra want shooting, did you not read the article in the Telegraph I take it?  I doubt your Labour cronies did either.


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## soggy (1 August 2007)

"Pure semantics." NO, Law. Read my earlier post.
		
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No Pure semantics, read mine.




			All that proves is that you are a violent person and a strange one at that keeping the teeth as a trophy.
		
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Hardly all that it proves it that I have proved to my own satisfaction that what you claim is pish. I've kept the tooth just in case he wanted it back at some point. It sits in the ashtray of the Landie waiting for him to claim it.




			So working through your own logic you are saying all hunters are wife beaters?
		
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Did I say that? Don't think that I did?




			Oh and by the way, seeing I have little or no hair it would be incorrect to put me into a hippy or "greasy dreadlocks" pigeon hole,
		
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The length of your hair or its style has nowt to do with why I call you a hippy. 




			and NO I am not a skin head as that generalisation implies I am a violent racist, which I am not either.
		
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So you're a slap head hippie then!


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## soggy (1 August 2007)

Countryside - Rivals any in the world! DEFRA have done a wonderful job in securing the right economic conditions for success, now and for the long term. The reforms brought in by the former Formidable Secretary of State, Mrs. Beckett, meant that farmers had to be more accountable for their livestock and the treatment of them. She also made the conditions in which farmers could sit back and think to themselves "we've never had it so good" Blair also did a good job fighting the CAP and the ridiculous demands of the French Government.
		
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LMAO

You have swallowed that labour propaganda leaflet again haven't you?

SFP, and self modulation. Both wonderful examples of your heros cock ups at work.


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## severnmiles (1 August 2007)

"NHS - The budget has nearly tripled, we have never had so many doctors and nurses, of course there are difficulties, but we are the party to overcome them."

Difficulties....do you want to try and make excuses for the recent Junior doctor c*ck up, many are feeling suicidal (alongside alot of farmers) due to Labours incompetence.

"Iraq - A fledgling democracy. Slowly stabilising and back on track to becoming the proud nation it once was."

Tell that to my brothers dead best friend, atleast he died a man, something I'm sure you won't.


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## wrighty (1 August 2007)

"Did I say that? Don't think that I did?"
No you didn't but if you are ok using generalisations then you should accept others.
Anti's are all hippies as there might be 1 or more anti's with "hippy" attitudes and beliefs therefore as a hunter has been convicted of beating his wife (Possibly more, I'm not sure on that) then all hunters are wife beaters, unless the hunters are wives themselves, I have no theory on this yet.

Just to clear things up to other Pro's, I am not saying all hunters are wife beaters, just trying to educate Mr Soggy here on the problems of generalisations.


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## severnmiles (1 August 2007)

I wouldn't believe all you see on the news Wrighty
		
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Take your own advice and don't believe all of the bull5hit Labour spout.


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## soggy (1 August 2007)

No you didn't .
		
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Thank you tahs all I wanted to read. 




			but
		
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There is no but! I either said it or I didn't. As you have just agreed I didn't say it. 

However you did recommend punching someone as a means of defence. Tut tut What will the council of senior hippies say about that? You'll be blackballed. 

If you go sneaking around TF's place in the middle of the night you'll be blackballed as well most likely. But in a far more painfull manner. :grin:


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## wrighty (1 August 2007)

"Tell that to my brothers dead best friend"
I'll jump in on this one. If he was in the "forces" he made that decision himself, he took the pay therefore he does the job, if he dies doing that job (Always a possibility as they are trained to shoot at people) it is a shame but it shouldn't be used to prove a point.
His death has got nothing to do with "A fledgling democracy. Slowly stabilising and back on track to becoming the proud nation it once was" it has to do with doing his job.
I have known many people (Incuding family) in the forces over the years and some have been killed, injured and traumatised, ALL of them agree that if you get paid to do the job, you do the job. Some might not have agreed with the decisions made by other people above them but ALL did as they were told and knew the risks.


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## severnmiles (1 August 2007)

Totally agree, they're not paid the queens coin to sit at home.

Iraq is still a c*ck up though.


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## wrighty (1 August 2007)

"Someone using a whip to hit you, you can defend yourself by removing the whip from the attacker using reasonable force.(Self Defence)
Someone using a whip in a threatening manner, if you feel in direct threat from that person with the whip you can pre-empt the attack and defend yourself by removing the whip from the attacker using reasonable force. (Self Defence)
After the whip has been removed and the attacker is no longer a threat you cannot continue to use force on this person, if you do it is illegal (Assault) UNLESS you clearly state that you are arresting that person for the assault. Using the whip you have just removed to hit your attacker would usually be classed as assault (Very difficult to justify this)"

OK, tell me where in this I say you can punch anyone?

"But in a far more painfull manner."
Another threat? That's not nice.

I won't bother with you after this on the hippy, wife beater saga.
I can only assume that Soggy is a red coat wearing toff who enjoys torturing and killing animals with no regard for the law of the land who beats his wife on every possible occasion with a whip. 
I cannot at the moment make more generalisations as I do not know where he is from, what religion he is or what ethnic group he belongs to but can guess he's a carrot crunching, sandal wearing, bible bashing tosspot who sits on gates with a straw in his mouth shouting "get orf moi laaaand" to anyone who isn't driving a landy or a tracter.
Any more generalisations needed on this forum?


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## severnmiles (1 August 2007)

That all Herefodians are cider drinkers...Oooo Arrrrrrrr


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## wrighty (1 August 2007)

That is true, but not born here.
Others know where I'm from but I won't bother you with that now.


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## peakpark (1 August 2007)

quote/ shouting "get orf moi laaaand" to anyone who isn't driving a landy or a tracter. /quote

dear me, evidence of class hatred. Is your opposition to hunting based that too?


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## soggy (1 August 2007)

" The use of a fist to the face IMO is violence but the use of a fist to other parts of the body to stop an attack is appropriate, it's all about knowing what is classed as self defence and reasonable force.
		
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What a short memory you have. 

Its a good job one of us is paying attention.


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## wrighty (1 August 2007)

Peak, read all the comments I have been making about generalisations and hopefully it will make more sense.


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## soggy (1 August 2007)

"But in a far more painfull manner."
Another threat? That's not nice.
		
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No threat implied, or intended. Just stating the likely result.




			I won't bother with you after this on the hippy, wife beater saga.
I can only assume that Soggy is a red coat wearing toff who enjoys torturing and killing animals with no regard for the law of the land who beats his wife on every possible occasion with a whip. 




			Have you been stalking me? :shocked:




			I cannot at the moment make more generalisations as I do not know where he is from, what religion he is or what ethnic group he belongs to but can guess he's a carrot crunching, sandal wearing, bible bashing tosspot who sits on gates with a straw in his mouth shouting "get orf moi laaaand" to anyone who isn't driving a landy or a tracter. 




			I knew it! I bally well knew I was being stalked by some slap headed hippie these last few month!.:shocked:

You should have come out of the bushes and introduced yourself Wrighty, No need to be ashamed.
		
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## wrighty (1 August 2007)

Soggy, I stand corrected. Yes I did say that.
A punch to the chest can be used as a good form of self defence, a punch to the face is a violent attack.

Please forgive me for doubting your memory.


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## severnmiles (1 August 2007)

A punch to the chest is not much of a defense unless the opposition is a weedy little pale faced veggie (sorry jumping in on the generalisation bandwagon  :grin therefore surely you'd have to punch more than once which would in turn become a violent attack...is it not better just to knock one on the chin and be done with it?


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## soggy (1 August 2007)

Depends on whether you are a short arsed slap headed hippie or not I suppose.

You know that TF is over 6'5" :shocked:


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## wrighty (1 August 2007)

Thanks for the generalisation again, as we all know veggies (Or even vegans like me) are all weedy, weak, pale and always have colds.
A strike (I won't call it a punch again as it might confuse some people) to the solar plexus can be very effective, and it moves less than the head therefore easier to hit 1st time.


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## severnmiles (1 August 2007)

Well 'Dr' Gillian McKeith is a fine example...  :grin:

I do applaud you, I've got Coeliacs and find it so hard to live without wheat and only do it because I have to, I could NEVER give up meat (partly because giving up wheat and meat wouldn't leave much for me to eat but mainly because I love meat too much!).

Do you practise martial arts?


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## wrighty (1 August 2007)

I used to say I could not live without meat, it is easy now.
I have studied various things over the years for fitness and work reasons but never a single martial art.


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## soggy (1 August 2007)

(Or even vegans like me) .
		
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It just had to be didn't it?

[/quote]A strike (I won't call it a punch again as it might confuse some people) to the solar plexus can be very effective, and it moves less than the head therefore easier to hit 1st time. [/quote]

Have you been reading that self defence for hippies book again?
You shouldn't believe all that you read in those things you know.
Whilst you re figuring out exactly where you intended victims solar plexis is, she most probably will have smacked you in the side of the head and and gone off with you digital camera, to show her mates back at the stables.


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## Mithras (1 August 2007)

I dont often come on here, but that first post has got to be one of the most hilarious I have ever read.  Its serious too.  Talk about thick!  

I'm also glad to note that since my last visit to this forum, there is no more snow on the ground.

Oh!  Doh!  I forgot it was summer now!


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## severnmiles (1 August 2007)

I used to say I could not live without meat, it is easy now.
I have studied various things over the years for fitness and work reasons but never a single martial art.
		
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Still don't think the body should be deprived of meat, it is what we first existed on and we don't evolve that quickly but you've made your choice!  Wrighty you're not so bad but I personally can't stand LB.


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## soggy (1 August 2007)

I used to say I could not live without meat, it is easy now.
I have studied various things over the years for fitness and work reasons but never a single martial art.
		
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SM
#

He's talking about Yoga and phensuei(sp)


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## severnmiles (1 August 2007)

Its not LB's fault, he can't understand the concept of 'four seasons', he thinks its just a piece written by Vivaldi.


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## severnmiles (1 August 2007)

I used to say I could not live without meat, it is easy now.
I have studied various things over the years for fitness and work reasons but never a single martial art.
		
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SM
#

He's talking about Yoga and phensuei(sp)
		
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LOL


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## wrighty (1 August 2007)

"but I personally can't stand LB"
I can see why that might be, it's why I stay away from politics, you must be able to see why I "personally can't stand" some of the posters in this forum.

Yoga is very good for you, phensuei (feng shui) is a load of **** but people believe in different things so can't grumble too much.


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## soggy (1 August 2007)

I can see why that might be, it's why I stay away from politics, you must be able to see why I "personally can't stand" some of the posters in this forum.
		
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Ooh! Intriguing. 

How about naming them?


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## wrighty (1 August 2007)

I don't think that would be appropriate.


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## soggy (1 August 2007)

Who's worried about propriety.

I'm sure none of then would be overly concerned at your disapproval.


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## kirstyhen (1 August 2007)

Have to say that wrighty is wittering on about not being violent (thereore im assuming non confrontational, sorry to assume ive read earlier posts and know how terrible thats considered!!) then why bother coming on to a hunting forum to try and spark a debate with people who want to share an pastime which they enjoy with others who share similar pastimes!? 
I also have to say that I would appluade anyone who tried to get near enough my horse to remove my whip, its not me thats the violent one in our partnership!!


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## wurzel (1 August 2007)

"I feel any physical contact is violent. "

That'sh no wot yoo shaid las night !!!


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## Blairite (1 August 2007)

You're the deluded one sweetheart, you do realise that all of the stats realeased are given in a 'positive' way, percentages, facts, figures are twisted and written in a way to please the public..what they don't know about won't hurt them.

Re. the countryside, Defra want shooting, did you not read the article in the Telegraph I take it?  I doubt your Labour cronies did either.
		
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The Torygraph - can't say I read it - typical for hunting stock such as yourself to use it as your Bible!!

Lord_Blairite


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## kirstyhen (1 August 2007)

Do you just ignore the desperate situation that the countryside and farmers are in then? Do you just trot off to the supermarket and buy your meat with a picture of a cow and some cr*p about famers and think your doing your bit!? 
Just dont think about the calves that get shot because there worth nothing (because veal is so much worse!) and the farmers that get paid tuppence for milk that gets sold on for a massive profit?
Forget the copses that will be ripped up because they have no use as the labour party are determined that any way of controlling wildlife is cruel (unless its shooting at them so they can run away injured and die a slow painful death).


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## Blairite (1 August 2007)

Severnmiles

You are hurting my feelings!

Its not my fault that we -  the Labour Government - have finally laid to rest your hunting with hounds by classing it as an illegal pursuit. 

Cabbage Green aren't we SM!!

Regards

Lord_Blairite


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## wrighty (1 August 2007)

"thereore im assuming non confrontational"
Confrunting someone or something has nothing to do with any form of violence. You can confront without threatening.

As for your whip and your horse, there would be no need to remove it if you're not threatening anyone with it, if you were you would probably be using the horse as a weapon by pushing people out of the way.


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## Blairite (1 August 2007)

Wrighty

I dealt with Soggy Brain and Tom Thumb over on the BBC boards and I can tell you now the nature of the beast never changes. 

I am being tongue in cheek with them by the way. 

;-)

Regards

Lord_Blairite


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## wurzel (1 August 2007)

"Its not my fault that we - the Labour Government - have finally laid to rest your hunting with hounds by classing it as an illegal pursuit."

Wow !! Are you a member of the labour government ?

If you are i have a couple questions for you.


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## kirstyhen (1 August 2007)

I have to say that threats of informing those who need to know does strike me as threating confrontation!
You have also said that you only observe hunts, therefore i assumed from that, that you did not confront people, sorry my mistake, you obvously relish spoiling peoples enjoyment of an activity.
I wouldnt purposely use my horse as a weapon either, for a start ive had it land on me and i wouldnt wish 750kg of thrashing horse on anyone, secondly ive heard enough stories of antis harming the hunts animals not to want any of them near enough my horse for me to use it as a weapon!


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## Blairite (1 August 2007)

&lt;&lt;Wow !! Are you a member of the labour government ?
If you are i have a couple questions for you.&gt;&gt;

Fire away, Wurzel old bean. 

Regards

Lord_Blairite

P.S. That doesn't mean I am confirming being a part of the Government and anything I say is purely my own opinion!


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## wrighty (1 August 2007)

"you obvously relish spoiling peoples enjoyment of an activity."
I dont relish it but if it save an animals life I will continue doing it.


"stories of antis harming the hunts animals"
Anti's that threaten or hurt any hunt animals are as bad as the hunters,I will attempt to stop ANY harm coming to animals, any that hurt or threaten hunters are as bad as the hunters that hurt and threaten anti's


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## kirstyhen (1 August 2007)

I dont see how coming on to a forum to makes threats is going to save an animals life!
Foxes will not stop being killed purely because they cannot be killed by a pack of hounds. Instead they will be kill in much less accurate ways. At least if a fox is caught by a pack of hounds, it is dead, if it escapes it is survival of the fittest.
I applaude you for at least standing by you convictions and being a vegan.
Do you not consider humans to be animals? As many children hunt, do you not consider how frightened they may become at the site of antis (whether threatening them or not). You have already stated that you would use force, to whom does this apply? At what age does it become acceptable for you to strike a person, and how can you judge the age of a person if their face is obscured by a riding hat. In my opinion by resorting to force you are as bad as any anti that injures an animal.


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## wrighty (1 August 2007)

"to makes threats"
I dont threaten people.

"You have already stated that you would use force, to whom does this apply?"
I would use force only to stop an assault on myself or others.

"At what age does it become acceptable for you to strike a person."
I will defend myself and other against anyone, no matter the age if they are posing a threat to me but I would use reasonable force (as stated in other posts)

I have posted on different threads about the ideals and nessessety (excuse my spelling if wrong) of killing or "controling" wild animals so I dont feel I need to repeat myself


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## soggy (1 August 2007)

I am being tongue in cheek with them by the way.
		
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Blairite you have never been any where near my cheek, facial of posteriorl. Just cos thats your choice of employment within the ministry does not mean that the rest of the general population considers it as being acceptable.


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## kirstyhen (1 August 2007)

"Tom, I've said this to others who brag about breaking the law, if you're not worried about it, send me your name, address and when you're planning to do it and I will do my best to get down and help the police with thier enquiries"
Sorry I saw this as threatening.
"I will defend myself and other against anyone, no matter the age if they are posing a threat to me but I would use reasonable force (as stated in other posts)"
So a five year old strikes you with their whip because they know no better and you feel it necessary to use force on the child in order to "defend yourself".
And I apologise for not wasting my time trying to find your other posts, however there will always be people who feel it necessary to control wild animals, and will just find ways of doing it outside the law. So by coming on to this forum and making what i believe to be threats you are not saving any animals and will not change the established opinions of many long serving hunt followers.


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## wrighty (1 August 2007)

"Sorry I saw this as threatening"
Nothing threating about it, I would video the event and pass it on.

"So a five year old strikes you with their whip because they know no better and you feel it necessary to use force on the child in order to "defend yourself"."
I would take the whip off them, I doubt there would be any need to use pressure points or holds. If a 5yr old did do that then I would expect they learne dit off either a parent or another adult they were close to, not the best example to set.

"making what i believe to be threats"
Once again, I do not threaten ppl


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## kirstyhen (1 August 2007)

I stated that i believed them to be threatening, that may not have been your intention.
I would consider removing the whip of a five year old child extremly threatening, the child would have a pretty tight hold on the whip, may even have their wrist in a loop, you would intimidate them and possibly cause them to fall off as you snatched at the whip. 
Whatever you did to them i would deem it unecessary, i would also presume their parent(s) would feel the same. Not all children learn from example, they may have felt threatened and lashed out. You cannot rationalise any form of violence or force as you prefer to call it. Especially towards a child.
You have no knowledge of the people that you would use force on, what if someone was hunting with an injury, you would not know how much "force" they could withstand.


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## wrighty (2 August 2007)

I'm sorry but now you're talking s***e, you're saying a lot of "whats" and "ifs."
What if they were young, what if they were injured, what if they had a broken leg, what if they had a shotgun.

In my experience it is very unlikely that a 5yr old would attack an adult with a whip, threatened or not.

Every situation needs to be dealt with on its own merit and these actions would need to be assesed at the time, you are just throwing different things into the pot to hear something that you think you want to hear. 
You want someone to say they would hit a child if threatened, you want to hear that force would be used against someone who didn't need forced used against them, you won't hear that from me, what you will hear is (once again) I will defend myself, within the law, if it is needed against anyone that poses a threat to me or others, that does not mean someone that just threatens, it has to be a direct threat. (yes, before you say, there is a difference)


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## Blairite (2 August 2007)

&lt;&lt;I would consider removing the whip of a five year old child extremly threatening,&gt;&gt;

PMSL!!!!!!!! Are you serious??! Presumably even the child of a hunting thug would have more respect than that. How could removing a whip from an aggressive child be deemed threatening?

 &lt;&lt;the child would have a pretty tight hold on the whip, may even have their wrist in a loop, you would intimidate them and possibly cause them to fall off as you snatched at the whip.&gt;&gt; 

LOLOLOL! Bloody good job too! Perhaps they will think twice next time. If this imaginary five year old is attacking an adult stranger, imagine what they will be doing aged 15. If such an attack was perpetrated at school the teacher/member of staff would have power of restraint. Would you consider that threatening?!!!

&lt;&lt;Whatever you did to them i would deem it unecessary&gt;&gt;

Well there is the answer. I take it you don't have children? Never were one and hopefully never hope to have any? 

 &lt;&lt;i would also presume their parent(s) would feel the same.&gt;&gt; 

If parents allowed/encouraged such an attack they face the risk of Social Service involvement and the removal of their child(ren) 

&lt;&lt;Not all children learn from example, they may have felt threatened and lashed out.&gt;&gt; 

FFS! LOLOLOL! You should start writing a column for the Guardian! 

&lt;&lt;You cannot rationalise any form of violence or force as you prefer to call it. Especially towards a child.&gt;&gt;

No violence was called for by anyone from what I read. Wrighty proposed (in your imaginary scenarios) to use restraint/reasonable force to defend himself and put an end to the violence. 

&lt;&lt;You have no knowledge of the people that you would use force on&gt;&gt;

Who gives a flying ****! I am not supporting anyone being attacked, but if someone/anyone attacked you, would you just stand there and crumple to the floor??! 

&lt;&lt;what if someone was hunting with an injury, you would not know how much "force" they could withstand.&gt;&gt;

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This just gets better. Hang on, Beedles about - come on out you fat twat - I know your hiding in here somewhere!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lord_Blairite


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## wurzel (2 August 2007)

"P.S. That doesn't mean I am confirming being a part of the Government and anything I say is purely my own opinion! "

Sorry. I thought you said.....


"Its not my fault that we - the Labour Government - have finally laid to rest your hunting with hounds by classing it as an illegal pursuit. "

So are you a member of the government or not?

Or have we seen another little lie from Blairite ?

Always a little problem with the truth.

Anyway questions...

1. Have you ever been hunting ?

2. What did Margaret Beckett do to get promoted ?

3. Do you think farming should exist in this country ?

4. Why do you think meetings between the BDS and LACS concerning Baronsdown have unpublished minutes. ?

5. Do you think in general we should spy on our neighbours ?

6. Do you think there should be more tax on agricultural land.?

7. Do you think the Queen is an admirable head of state for this country ?


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## severnmiles (2 August 2007)

"you obvously relish spoiling peoples enjoyment of an activity."
I dont relish it but if it save an animals life I will continue doing it.


"stories of antis harming the hunts animals"
Anti's that threaten or hurt any hunt animals are as bad as the hunters,I will attempt to stop ANY harm coming to animals, any that hurt or threaten hunters are as bad as the hunters that hurt and threaten anti's
		
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In that case, get yourself up to the Ledbury...  That mad hatter that insists on being outside the Feathers EVERY Boxing day always kicks ponies up the bum and rattles a tambourine in their faces, one year she even put pins down for the hounds...such an animals lover.


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## severnmiles (2 August 2007)

LB, children should NEVER be involved, on either side.  Of course an adult (lets face it, you guys are so ashamed you're always hidden behind balaclavas) taking a crop away from a child is very frightening for them.  It is also sad that you find it acceptable to pick on a child.  Too scared to face upto someone your own size obviously.


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## severnmiles (2 August 2007)

"I feel any physical contact is violent. "

That'sh no wot yoo shaid las night !!!
		
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Now I'd try and think of a witty reply but whatever I wrote you'd just come back with one better...

Must have been too much cider


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## southgate1975 (2 August 2007)

Mighta needed summat stronger than cider...


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## peakpark (2 August 2007)

quote/ She also made the conditions in which farmers could sit back and think to themselves "we've never had it so good" /quote

Presumably you're saying that tongue in cheek....................or do you actually mean it????


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## wrighty (2 August 2007)

"In that case, get yourself up to the Ledbury... That mad hatter that insists on being outside the Feathers EVERY Boxing day always kicks ponies up the bum and rattles a tambourine in their faces, one year she even put pins down for the hounds...such an animals lover."
If I saw that I would stop them, no matter who was doing it.

"1. Have you ever been hunting ?"
You don't have to do something to know it is wrong. I have never killed anyone and don't intend to do it to see if it a bad thing to do.
"7. Do you think the Queen is an admirable head of state for this country ?"
No, the monarchy is an outdated idea that should be stopped as soon as possible.


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## wrighty (2 August 2007)

"lets face it, you guys are so ashamed you're always hidden behind balaclavas"
I thought we weren't going to generalise again. 
I have never hidden away from anyone by wearing a hood, hat or balaclava.
Yes, some Anti's wear them but so do some Pro's
"A***** T******* with balaclava and iron bar at the Crawley and Horsham hunt." (Name covered up by me, no need to cover old ground)


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## severnmiles (2 August 2007)

"1. Have you ever been hunting ?"
You don't have to do something to know it is wrong. I have never killed anyone and don't intend to do it to see if it a bad thing to do.
		
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But you know the facts regarding murder, you have to know the full facts of something to have an opinion on it.  Foxes have to be culled, people don't have to be murdered so the two are incomparable.  It would be closer to compare it with those on death row, they have to be killed but which method is more humane?  That is surely more important.




			"7. Do you think the Queen is an admirable head of state for this country ?"
No, the monarchy is an outdated idea that should be stopped as soon as possible.
		
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Now you see, I'd rather she ruled the country, I'm sure she'd do a better job than those idiots in Parliament - yes I'm including Labour, Tories, Lib Dems e.t.c  All politicians are liers no matter which party they belong to.


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## severnmiles (2 August 2007)

"lets face it, you guys are so ashamed you're always hidden behind balaclavas"
I thought we weren't going to generalise again. 
I have never hidden away from anyone by wearing a hood, hat or balaclava.
Yes, some Anti's wear them but so do some Pro's
"A***** T******* with balaclava and iron bar at the Crawley and Horsham hunt." (Name covered up by me, no need to cover old ground)
		
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I'm not generalising, I didn't say all antis...I said all Sabs...  They are the same species but a different breed  :smirk:

I wear one in the winter...not because I want to be hidden but because it keeps me warm!  They do have a purpose other than being sold to sabs you know...


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## severnmiles (2 August 2007)

P.s If I walked into your back garden (a bunch of us in camo and balaclavas) would you grab an iron bar or a baseball bat?  Trespassing in fields is no different to trespassing in your garden because our fields are our garden, they're our property and ours to protect.


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## wrighty (2 August 2007)

"But you know the facts regarding murder, you have to know the full facts of something to have an opinion on it."
But I can know the full facts about hunting without ever doing it, see my point.

"Now you see, I'd rather she ruled the country"
Now is that because she and her family are well known hunters and she would probably not have banned any form of hunting?

"All politicians are liers no matter which party they belong to."
Generalisations again? (I agree with you though)


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## severnmiles (2 August 2007)

But I can know the full facts about hunting without ever doing it, see my point.
		
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But how can you comment on something that you don't know the full facts aout....see my point?




			Now is that because she and her family are well known hunters and she would probably not have banned any form of hunting?
		
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Being honest....hell ye!




			"All politicians are liers no matter which party they belong to."
Generalisations again? (I agree with you though)
		
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Yes it is...I'll give you a task...find me one that isn't  :grin:


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## wrighty (2 August 2007)

"I'm not generalising, I didn't say all antis...I said all Sabs"
You actually said "you guys"

"I have never hidden away from anyone by wearing a hood, hat or balaclava"
I never said I'd never worn them, just never to hide from anyone.

"If I walked into your back garden (a bunch of us in camo and balaclavas) would you grab an iron bar or a baseball bat?"
No I wouldn't.

"Trespassing in fields is no different to trespassing in your garden because our fields are our garden, they're our property and ours to protect."
Trespass is a civil offence, you cannot arrest anyone for it, you cannot attack people for it and you have to ask them to leave and get a refusal before using minimal force to escort them off the property. 2 people escorting is usually considered excesive force, always beter to leave alone and call the police to deal with it.
Oh, BTW, "A***** T******* with balaclava and iron bar" was pictured on the road, not his own property or in his garden .


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## wrighty (2 August 2007)

"But how can you comment on something that you don't know the full facts aout....see my point?"
Once agin you assume I don't know the facts.
I was not born and bred in the city, I am a counrty boy who has lived and worked on farms that don't allow hunting or shooting, the owners spend that little bit extra to keep any possible preditors out.
I've heard all the "my land is too big", "my chickens got slaughtered" "it ate my lamb" but as i have said before there are ways to protect what is yours without killing them.


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## severnmiles (2 August 2007)

"I'm not generalising, I didn't say all antis...I said all Sabs"
You actually said "you guys"
		
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But I was referring to picking on kids out hunting, in which case you're likely to be a sab and not an anti.





			"If I walked into your back garden (a bunch of us in camo and balaclavas) would you grab an iron bar or a baseball bat?"
No I wouldn't.
		
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You're trusting, I for sure would in that situation.

Perhaps he was protecting a friends farm/land.  Being a terrierman he's bound to have alot of farming friends.


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## wrighty (2 August 2007)

"Perhaps he was protecting a friends farm/land. Being a terrierman he's bound to have alot of farming friends."
Now you're just being silly.


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## Hercules (2 August 2007)

Wrighty,

Hunting continues and always will.  Your little crusade has not worked.  Unlucky. Now be silent.  Thankyou.


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## kirstyhen (2 August 2007)

I was not trying to create a situation in which I got to hear answers i wanted, I was merely trying to find out to what extent your generilisation of using force spread.
To say that someone might hunt with an injury is not rediculous, i no many people hunting with broken ribs, arms, collar bones etc.
Must be nice farms in wish the farmers can afford to spend extra on pest control. Most farmers in know would prefer spending their money on their animals and allow the hunts to control the pests, whilst also providing a service in removing their dead stock.


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## wrighty (2 August 2007)

"Wrighty,
Hunting continues and always will. Your little crusade has not worked. Unlucky. Now be silent. Thankyou."

OK, will do.lol.


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## wrighty (2 August 2007)

"I was merely trying to find out to what extent your generilisation of using force spread."
I haven't used any generalisations about using force, I will use the appropriate amount of force needed to protect myself from anybody, no matter who they are.

"whilst also providing a service in removing their dead stock."
Yes, we've seen the programme.


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## severnmiles (2 August 2007)

"Wrighty,
Hunting continues and always will. Your little crusade has not worked. Unlucky. Now be silent. Thankyou."

OK, will do.lol.
		
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Wow...if only the man in my life was so obedient...Hercules whats your secret  :smirk:


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## wrighty (2 August 2007)

If only it were that easy.
I don't think I will be silent for Hercules, even if he is the son on Zeus.


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## Enfys (2 August 2007)

Scared?   Come down!  You're more than welcome, I'll recommend a few meets where the Bara Brith is top notch and you can see modern hunting first hand!
		
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Don't forget the cawl either sm!  Happy Cubbing everyone.


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## severnmiles (2 August 2007)

Don't forget the cawl either sm!  Happy Cubbing everyone.
		
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Mmm, don't get that sort of hospitality with the English hunts...roll on October...


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## soggy (2 August 2007)

I was not born and bred in the city, I am a counrty boy who has lived and worked on farms that don't allow hunting or shooting, the owners spend that little bit extra to keep any possible preditors out.
I've heard all the "my land is too big", "my chickens got slaughtered" "it ate my lamb" but as i have said before there are ways to protect what is yours without killing them.
		
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Ah ha!
I know you!
You've made those claims before else where and not under the pseudonym Wrighty.
You couldn't  offer a decent practical example of how these pillars of  farming you claimed to have worked for went about protecting their livestock from predation.

My cousins a sheep farmer farms approx 11OOacres of mostly chalk downland and marginal grassland. Been a sheep farmer all of his adult life, 35 years Has approx 20miles of field boundary consisting of stock fencing, hedges and a bit of post and rail.  

Losses lambs to foxes, badgers, and out of control dogs. Has lamas out with his flocks but still losses lambs.
Any practical solutions as I'm sure he would be delighted to reduce his losses to predation given the current sales price of good lambs


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## Blairite (2 August 2007)

&lt;&lt;Sorry. I thought you said.....
"Its not my fault that we - the Labour Government - have finally laid to rest your hunting with hounds by classing it as an illegal pursuit. "&gt;&gt;

The Royal 'we' ! Anything I say on this forum is purely my own opinion and is not endorsed by the Government or the Labour party. 

&lt;&lt;So are you a member of the government or not?&gt;&gt;

I have said what I have said. 

&lt;&lt;Always a little problem with the truth.&gt;&gt;

Not talking about the Countryside Alliance are you? I quite agree. Liars the lot of 'em! 

&lt;&lt;1. Have you ever been hunting ?&gt;&gt;

I have observed hunting in action, yes. I have also witnessed a Fox being caught by the Hounds. It was this that convinced me most of all that the status quo should not continue (hunting, not the band) Before you start the "very unlikey to have seen such a thing" speech, remember that we discussed this to exhaustion on the BBC boards. 

&lt;&lt;2. What did Margaret Beckett do to get promoted ?&gt;&gt;

To Foreign Secretary, you mean? Because, sadly, Mrs. Beckett has now left the Government. I suspect that Tony realised that wherever he placed Mrs. Beckett and in the posts she held in the Callaghan administartion, she always performed a first class job. From Education, to Development, to Leader of the House, Trade and Industry (first woman to hold the post) Environment (where she was hugely successful) and finally the Foreign office. It was widely recognised that Mrs. Beckett was a "safe pair of hands" Whitehall new it, Downing Street new it and most importantly, the country new it. 

&lt;&lt;3. Do you think farming should exist in this country ?&gt;&gt;

Well of course it should. Farming is hugely important not only to the economy but for the independence of the UK. It also has an important role to play in education. 

&lt;&lt;4. Why do you think meetings between the BDS and LACS concerning Baronsdown have unpublished minutes. ?&gt;&gt;

That is a question you would need to ask them. I have no idea whatsoever. 

&lt;&lt;5. Do you think in general we should spy on our neighbours ?&gt;&gt;

I do not think that it is advisable in "general" to advocate a policy of spying on one's neighbours. However, if you believe that your neighbour may be breaking the law, or inflicting cruelty (for instance) on his/her children, spouse or pets, then gathering evidence and alerting the appropriate authorities might be advisable. 

&lt;&lt;6. Do you think there should be more tax on agricultural land.?&gt;&gt;

I would prefer lower taxes, where possible, as these tend to create the conditions for stability (take the past 10 years as an example!) However, taxation has to be levied on a case by case basis, I would have thought. I have little knowledge of current Treasury policy, particularly in relation to Agriculture and so would be reluctant to comment specifically.

&lt;&lt;7. Do you think the Queen is an admirable head of state for this country ?&gt;&gt;

Yes, HM Queen, is in many respects an admirable head of state. Her families tendancies towards the Hunting Fraternity are disappointing. However, the Queen, I believe, restricts herself to shooting Pheasant and Grouse which inevitably end up in the pot. 

Regards

Lord_Blairite


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## Blairite (2 August 2007)

&lt;&lt;I'll give you a task... find me one that isn't&gt;&gt;

The current Government. ;-)

Regards

Lord_Blairite


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## Blairite (2 August 2007)

Saggy_Bum,

Something for your imaginary cousin to refer to:

http://www.defra.gov.uk/

Regards

Lord_Blairite


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## soggy (2 August 2007)

The Defra web site? Now I know your just taking the pee!


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## soggy (2 August 2007)

Unless of course you trying to point to their advice on the using of snares to control foxes?


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## soggy (2 August 2007)

I have no idea whatsoever.
		
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You have never posted a truer word!

You have no idea about anything to do with the countryside, farming,hunting, conservation, et al.Its all third hand LACS and AA and Labour Party, Google searched  drivel.

Originality was never your forte' was it. Always paid second fiddle.


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## severnmiles (2 August 2007)

&lt;&lt;I'll give you a task... find me one that isn't&gt;&gt;

The current Government. ;-)

Regards

Lord_Blairite
		
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The current government don't lie?  What a crock of 5hit!


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## severnmiles (2 August 2007)

Unless of course you trying to point to their advice on the using of snares to control foxes?
		
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Thats something I can't fathom, hunting is illegal yet snares are perfectly legal...


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## wrighty (2 August 2007)

"I know you!
You've made those claims before else where and not under the pseudonym Wrighty"
Wrong, always been Wrighty, I have no need to hide. Do some looking and you will find.


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## wrighty (2 August 2007)

He's a starting point for your search
Posted in March
l Lived on, worked on and volenteered on farms for 20years.
Because of things I saw and was told about these farms I decided to help protect animals from abuse and cruelty.
I've worked with factory bred chickens (which made me stop eating chickens) and free range, NO chickens were ever taken by foxes because the owner spent some extra cash on fences to stop them getting in. The owner refused any access to his land for hunts as he disagreed with killing foxes (Hunting, snaring or shooting)


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## soggy (2 August 2007)

"I know you!
You've made those claims before else where and not under the pseudonym Wrighty"
Wrong, always been Wrighty, I have no need to hide. Do some looking and you will find.
		
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HaHa! You've been sussed Wrighty.

As i predicted. Completely incapable of offering an practical solution. Just like before, and the time before that.

Come on fess up! What names have you been posting under on the various boards.


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## wrighty (2 August 2007)

Like I said, look and you will find.

If you're so sure I have posted as someone else, show us all.


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## soggy (2 August 2007)

No need to go a looking boyo!

You have been sussed.

Come on be a man, cough to the crime, you know you want to.....


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## wrighty (2 August 2007)

Come on Soggy, prove what you say.
I have given you a clue where to start looking, you do the same.


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## kirstyhen (2 August 2007)

"restricts herself to shooting Pheasant and Grouse which inevitably end up in the pot."
How is shooting pheasants any better than hunting? Pheasants are not native to this country and are reared purely to be shot, hunting is a means of controlling a population that already exists.
Im not anti shooting just dont understand how someone who is anti hunting can consider shooting as better.


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## Nickijem (2 August 2007)

Rearing pheasants then shooting them for food is no different to rearing chickens then slitting their throats for the pot only I know I would rather eat the pheasant cos I know its had some freedom in its life and lived as it naturally should.


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## severnmiles (2 August 2007)

Talking of foods before it was made illegal to kill them has anyone tried badger?  Someone was talking to me about wierd stuff they've eaten and a friend of his had tried badger... *spewing smilie*

Nicki do you have a trakehner?


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## Nickijem (2 August 2007)

HI severnmiles - yes I do have a trakehner.  Only had him a couple of weeks but totally smitten!! He's gorgeous.  I was looking for a reliable 15hh cob but ended up with this 17hh lanky dressage specialist!!!


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## severnmiles (2 August 2007)

Ooo..how is he bred?   Can't get much further from a cob than a Trak!


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## Nickijem (2 August 2007)

Do you think we have hijacked this forum a bit!!?? It was getting a bit samey a suppose so this little diversion will make a pleasant change!!
Jerry - passport name: Dornburg's Oriv came from Germany originally via Belgium.  He came to England in April and ended up with a dealer local to me who knew I was looking for something dependable and sane so that's how I came by him!  
His Sire is    Elan
his Dam is Osieka
Do you have a Trakehner too??


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## wurzel (2 August 2007)

So, on one hand you say you are member of the government and on the other you are not!

I think it is wrong to lie.

"I have observed hunting in action, yes. I have also witnessed a Fox being caught by the Hounds. It was this that convinced me most of all that the status quo should not continue"

You thought that this was cruel and you prefer snaring?


"To Foreign Secretary, you mean? Because, sadly, Mrs. Beckett has now left the Government. I suspect that Tony realised that wherever he placed Mrs. Beckett and in the posts she held in the Callaghan administartion, she always performed a first class job. From Education, to Development, to Leader of the House, Trade and Industry (first woman to hold the post) Environment (where she was hugely successful) and finally the Foreign office. It was widely recognised that Mrs. Beckett was a "safe pair of hands" Whitehall new it, Downing Street new it and most importantly, the country new it. "


I asked why she got promoted. What did she do exactly ?


"Well of course it should. Farming is hugely important not only to the economy but for the independence of the UK. It also has an important role to play in education."

Interesting ! So why are there less farms producing less every year since 1997 ?

I think you should comment on LACS and Baronsdown. You are a hunting expert?

So you agree with spying on your neighbour.





"I would prefer lower taxes, where possible, as these tend to create the conditions for stability (take the past 10 years as an example!) However, taxation has to be levied on a case by case basis, I would have thought. I have little knowledge of current Treasury policy, particularly in relation to Agriculture and so would be reluctant to comment specifically."

I said...do you agee with higher direct taxes on agricultural land ? How complicated is this question?



"Yes, HM Queen, is in many respects an admirable head of state. "

What about her views on hunting ? Acceptable or not?


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## wrighty (3 August 2007)

""Yes, HM Queen, is in many respects an admirable head of state. "
What about her views on hunting ? Acceptable or not?"

Come on Tom he's 1/2 answered that 1.
"Yes, HM Queen, is in many respects an admirable head of state. Her families tendancies towards the Hunting Fraternity are disappointing. However, the Queen, I believe, restricts herself to shooting Pheasant and Grouse which inevitably end up in the pot."


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## wench (3 August 2007)

pheasants dont live "naturally". You will find that they have food put out for them, and also they are not native to this country!!!


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## severnmiles (3 August 2007)

pheasants dont live "naturally". You will find that they have food put out for them, and also they are not native to this country!!!
		
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You talking to me?  I don't quite understand...?


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## wrighty (3 August 2007)

The practice of breeding animals for sport is wrong, no matter what the animal is, it has even backfired on the fox hunting community who claim they hunt (hunted) as a form of pest control.
"Hunts across the country are breeding foxes in specially made dens to ensure an adequate supply of the animals"
Feb 02. Guardian.


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## severnmiles (3 August 2007)

You're against pheasant shooting then?  The animal would not have been born if it were not for shooting, they live a fabulous and natural life (aslong as mr foxy doesn't get them), and most likely know nothing of their death so what is the problem?

Don't start talking morals like Southgate ( :smirk to me!


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## southgate1975 (3 August 2007)

The moral aspect of shooting birds that are bred specifically for sport is, I feel, worse than fox hunting.


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## wrighty (3 August 2007)

"You're against pheasant shooting then?" Yep.
"The animal would not have been born if it were not for  shooting." How many times have I heard this argument? Being born to be killed is not a life. Vivisectionists use the same arguments.

Just a bit of information.

The intensive and unnatural  battery conditions in which gamebirds are reared can cause a huge stress on the birds.

In a failed attempt to prevent cannibalism, game farmers practise beak trimming, where a portion of the beak is removed with a heated blade.

Further interference with nature occurs when young gamebirds have their wings clipped prior to being crammed into boxes and shipped off to shooting estates.

Those that do survive the shooting season are ill equipped to prosper in the wild.

(Sorry to cut and paste but they use better grammer than me.)


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## Nickijem (3 August 2007)

"Those that do survive the shooting season are ill equipped to prosper in the wild." Are they?
The ones round us seem to do very well, there have been several nests spotted this spring with 12 - 16 eggs and they have successfully reared their chicks.  The ones I've seen are certainly prospering!!


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## severnmiles (3 August 2007)

The moral aspect of shooting birds that are bred specifically for sport is, I feel, worse than fox hunting.
		
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Oh no!  Its you.....aaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh! Lol.  Now you see I put welfare of the animal above morals...thats 'morally' correct in my view.


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## severnmiles (3 August 2007)

More copy and paste crap...I've seen the little blighters (and they're not over populated) under their heat lamps, the dog did squash one though.

Why do antis believe EVERYTHING they read?


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## wrighty (3 August 2007)

OK, some make it. 
Throw at enough coconuts and you'll win a goldfish.

"Every year somewhere between 20 million and 35 million gamebirds are intensively bred, reared and transported across vast distances to supply live targets for commercial shooting estates."


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## wrighty (3 August 2007)

"More copy and paste crap"
I did say I copy and pasted for a reason, I should have also put that I have see the way pheasants are bred, I have seen 1000s of birds in small enclosures, I have seen birds with their beaks trimmed and I have seen people pulling feathers off the bird before crating them up (Also saw it on "Lie of the land")

But I doubt many people will believe me as all Anti's are wrong in Pro's eyes.


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## severnmiles (3 August 2007)

"More copy and paste crap"
I did say I copy and pasted for a reason, I should have also put that I have see the way pheasants are bred, I have seen 1000s of birds in small enclosures, I have seen birds with their beaks trimmed and I have seen people pulling feathers off the bird before crating them up (Also saw it on "Lie of the land")

But I doubt many people will believe me as all Anti's are wrong in Pro's eyes.
		
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Not all antis, I have agreed with antis before  - ask Southgate.  

I didn't actually see that you wrote that ...my bad!  Lucky guess that it was C&amp;P!

I clip my chickens wings...does that make me bad?  I've seen feathers plucked when crating them...would you like us to all stop pullng our horses manes and tails aswell?  Thats a little soft, ban the removal of dew claws too?

I've not seen pheasants over populated - turkeys yes but not pheasants.


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## wrighty (3 August 2007)

"would you like us to all stop pullng our horses manes and tails aswell?"
Does it hurt them? If yes, then I would say yes.


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## severnmiles (3 August 2007)

"would you like us to all stop pullng our horses manes and tails aswell?"
Does it hurt them? If yes, then I would say yes.
		
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If I pulled your hair out would it hurt you?

I shall put a poll up for you....


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## wrighty (3 August 2007)

"If I pulled your hair out would it hurt you?"
Would be difficult, it has already been mentioned that I am a "slaphead hippy".
"I shall put a poll up for you...." No need for polls, just answer this 1 simple question
If pulling horses mane and tails hurts (I am assuming it does seeing you're compairing it to pulling human hair) the horses, why would you inflict that pain on something you love? (I am assuming you love your horses)


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## southgate1975 (3 August 2007)

"Oh no! Its you.....aaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh! Lol."

Thankyou for your welcome !    

 "Now you see I put welfare of the animal above morals...thats 'morally' correct in my view. "

Well, actually, the desire to promote animal welfare is in itself a moral stance.


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## southgate1975 (3 August 2007)

"Why do antis believe EVERYTHING they read? "

We dont !


Well, we dont believe everything pros say, anyway.


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## southgate1975 (3 August 2007)

"Not all antis, I have agreed with antis before - ask Southgate. "

Scratches head... now when was that.... ??


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## severnmiles (3 August 2007)

"If I pulled your hair out would it hurt you?"
Would be difficult, it has already been mentioned that I am a "slaphead hippy".
"I shall put a poll up for you...." No need for polls, just answer this 1 simple question
If pulling horses mane and tails hurts (I am assuming it does seeing you're compairing it to pulling human hair) the horses, why would you inflict that pain on something you love? (I am assuming you love your horses)
		
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I love myself yet I still wax my legs and other rather senstitive areas, I pluck my eyebrows which is not pleasant...  Doesn't mean its cruel...  Ever had your chest or b,s &amp;c done and you'll know how painfull it is!


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## severnmiles (3 August 2007)

"Why do antis believe EVERYTHING they read? "

We dont !


Well, we dont believe everything pros say, anyway.
		
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Quite, I'll compare you antis with JRT's...selective hearing  :smirk: but in your case selective reading


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## severnmiles (3 August 2007)

"Not all antis, I have agreed with antis before - ask Southgate. "

Scratches head... now when was that.... ??
		
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It was regarding areas in England as whether hunting with hounds was the best method...or was it Endy?  I can't remember...I've slept since then


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## wrighty (3 August 2007)

"I love myself yet I still wax my legs and other rather senstitive areas, I pluck my eyebrows which is not pleasant... Doesn't mean its cruel... Ever had your chest or b,s &amp;c done and you'll know how painfull it is!"

Do I really need to comment on this bit? Come on honestly?

OK, I will, just in case some people were wondering about any part of it.

"I love myself yet I still wax my legs and other rather senstitive areas, I pluck my eyebrows which is not pleasant..."

You make that choice yourself, you do it to yourself or you have the verbal skills to say you don't want it done and you can decide to stop when evey you want. Your horse and/or other animals who we (as in humans) hurt do not have that choice, we force it onto them and they don't have the option of asking us to stop.

"Ever had your chest or b,s &amp;c done and you'll know how painfull it is!"
FYI I had my chest waxed for charity and no-one is going anywhere near my S or C with any wax, all my choice though.


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## severnmiles (3 August 2007)

Lol....

Very true but you make your choice as to what food you like and eat.  I choose for my horse, he may not like oats but thats what he gets...I choose to pull his mane to keep it neat and tidy and plait it for hunting  :smirk:

If he really wanted to, he could boot me to kingdom come but he doesn't, yet I know its unpleasant for him.


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## soggy (3 August 2007)

If he really wanted to, he could boot me to kingdom come
		
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You couldn't turn him loose on the likes of Wrighty, Southgate, and Blairite could you.

I'd pay good money to witness that. I could post the video up on U Tube for very one to have a giggle at.


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## mrsdoyal (3 August 2007)

Dear Mr. Faggus, wouldn't we make a handsome couple? Lets invite that nice Mr. Wrighty to the wedding. He can bring his friend the Queen and we can all eat non-politically-correct-but-hey,-if-its shot-by-the-queen-its-kosher pheasant sandwiches with the beaks, sorry, crusts cut off. 

P.s Is Mr.W's objection to pulling/trimming of horses manes/tail really a barely concealed fear of any form of hair loss?


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## wrighty (3 August 2007)

"He can bring his friend the Queen"
I want rid of the queen and her inbred hunting family (Not implying that hunters are inbred, just the queen and her family), I think you're thinking of someone else that actually likes her.

"Is Mr.W's objection to pulling/trimming of horses manes/tail really a barely concealed fear of any form of hair loss?"
No hair loss fear her, it's happening and can do nothing about it. I am concerned that some people hurt their own horses. (I am still assuming that it hurts the horse as it was compaired to pulling human hair, which has happened to me in the past before I had short hair)

"we can all eat non-politically-correct-but-hey,-if-its shot-by-the-queen-its-kosher pheasant sandwiches"
We all can't, I don't eat meat. Keep up.

"its-kosher"
I don't think the queen killing it would make it kosher, pheasant would be kosher if killed by Shechitah (Killed by cutting its throat with a sharp knife).
I will let you off not knowing this as I am assuming that neither anyone Pro in this forum, or anyone you know who hunts is Jewish.


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## mrsdoyal (3 August 2007)

Oh dear Mr.Wrighty, such treason. Tut tut, you're an anarchist aren't you? I fear that if I invite you we'll have Jonny Rotten's vocals echoing around the church. Maybe I'm misreading you, perhaps you are a revolutionary; a touch of French in you perhaps? I can picture you following the hunt on a bicycle, incognito in your stripy jumper and beret with strings of garlic around your neck.... 

This hair pulling business. I'm concerned. Who pulled your hair? Did this happen frequently? Have you had counseling? And were they by chance pulling your leg at the same time....


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## wrighty (4 August 2007)

Oh, I get it, wit again. Some people on this forum are getting quite good at it, you might need a bit more practice.

It's good to see you're keeping up the tradition of racial stereotyping, I've seen pictures of french people and non were anything like you describe them as.

No witty comments about your lack of knowledge on kosher food or are you just embarressed?


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## southgate1975 (4 August 2007)

If you're so hard up for amusement maybe I should let your dog bite me as well......


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## soggy (4 August 2007)

If you're so hard up for amusement maybe I should let your dog bite me as well......
		
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Well if you're offering ..................

I must warn you that he's a dirty fighter! There'd be none of this offering a well protected arm. He just goes in low and mean, and grabs what ever is available. :shocked: :grin:


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## soggy (4 August 2007)

Much like his owner upon reflection!


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## southgate1975 (4 August 2007)

Not hard to see the resemblance.


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## soggy (4 August 2007)

True. He is a handsome fella!

Modest as well


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## severnmiles (4 August 2007)

True. He is a handsome fella!

Modest as well 

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Great comeback ;-)


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## southgate1975 (5 August 2007)

Sorry if the dog felt a bit insulted back there....


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## Blairite (5 August 2007)

&lt;&lt;So, on one hand you say you are member of the government and on the other you are not!
I think it is wrong to lie&gt;&gt;

Wurzel ole bean. Do pay attention old boy. You do like to go around in circles. As where 'we' prefer to get on with the matter in hand and deal with them in the usual resolute and efficient way. 

&lt;&lt;I asked why she got promoted. What did she do exactly ?&gt;&gt;

Well, I have already answered that. The record of Mrs. Beckett rather speaks for itself, does it not? A Formidable politician wherever she was placed. One point of interest will be when there was a slight delay in payments from the RPA. Mrs. Beckett personally intervened and ensured that the chief executive was removed from post and that the matter was dealt with in the most responsible way. 

&lt;&lt;Interesting ! So why are there less farms producing less every year since 1997 ?&gt;&gt;

I do not recognise these figures. Could you provide a reliable source for this most spurious of claims?

&lt;&lt;I think you should comment on LACS and Baronsdown.&gt;&gt;

Why? I have no knowledge of the meeting. 

&lt;&lt;You are a hunting expert?&gt;&gt;

No, I am not an expert. I suspect that that also applies to you and Saggy Brain.

&lt;&lt;So you agree with spying on your neighbour&gt;&gt;

I would refer you to my previous comments: 

"I do not think that it is advisable in "general" to advocate a policy of spying on one's neighbours. However, if you believe that your neighbour may be breaking the law, or inflicting cruelty (for instance) on his/her children, spouse or pets, then gathering evidence and alerting the appropriate authorities might be advisable"

&lt;&lt;I said...do you agee with higher direct taxes on agricultural land ?&gt;&gt;

And I said: "I would prefer lower taxes, where possible, as these tend to create the conditions for stability (take the past 10 years as an example!) However, taxation has to be levied on a case by case basis, I would have thought. I have little knowledge of current Treasury policy, particularly in relation to Agriculture and so would be reluctant to comment specifically"

&lt;&lt;What about her views on hunting ? Acceptable or not?&gt;&gt;

Once again, I have already stated: "Yes, HM Queen, is in many respects an admirable head of state. Her families tendancies towards the Hunting Fraternity are disappointing. However, the Queen, I believe, restricts herself to shooting Pheasant and Grouse which inevitably end up in the pot."

I have not said that because the birds end up in the pot, it is an ideal situation. But I would prefer that HM went to Sandringham and shot a Pheasant for the pot, than buy a shrink wrapped one from Tesco et al. 

Wrighty, are you by any chance a poster who previously went by the name "Wig" ? You do not seem fierce enough to be Alex Skryabin! 

Further to that Wurzel, you will know that there has been a confirmed case of Foot&amp;Mouth in Surrey. It seems to me that lessons have been learnt since the last outbreak and operational activity is very much underway in order to contain, control and eradicate this most distressing of diseases. The PM and Environment Secretary, the Steadfast Hillary Benn have both returned early from their holidays to attend CoBRA, the Governments emergency committee. The PM has been in video conference with various ministers to keep a handle on the situation. He has also ordered an initial report to be on his desk in the next 48 hours, as well as ordering an independent inquiry and review in Bio-security at Pirbright. Measures are in place, so lets have none of the usual talk of incompetence and a lack of action. These are the actions of a responsible government, committed to farming and the rural communities, now and for the long term. 

Regards

Lord_Blairite


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## Blairite (5 August 2007)

&lt;&lt;The current government don't lie&gt;&gt;

No. Thats right. 

Regards

Lord_Blairite


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## severnmiles (5 August 2007)

&lt;&lt;The current government don't lie&gt;&gt;

No. Thats right. 

Regards

Lord_Blairite
		
Click to expand...

Wake up and smell the roses LordbLIARnotsoright.


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## Blairite (5 August 2007)

&lt;&lt;Wake up and smell the roses&gt;&gt;

If only you would take this advice old girl!

&lt;&lt;LordbLIARnotsoright&gt;&gt;

How ever do you think them up?! 

Regards

Lord_Blairite


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## wrighty (5 August 2007)

"Wrighty, are you by any chance a poster who previously went by the name "Wig" ? You do not seem fierce enough to be Alex Skryabin!"
I have previuosly stated that I have not posted as anyone else, in the last few months I have posted 116 posts, all as wrighty because that is who I am.

I am still waiting for proof from Soggy.


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## Blairite (5 August 2007)

"Wrighty, are you by any chance a poster who previously went by the name "Wig" ? You do not seem fierce enough to be Alex Skryabin!"
I have previuosly stated that I have not posted as anyone else, in the last few months I have posted 116 posts, all as wrighty because that is who I am.

I am still waiting for proof from Soggy.
		
Click to expand...

Sorry Wrighty, 

Didn't mean to offend - I was referring to the old BBC science and nature boards where some of us used to wage war on each other LOL! 

Regads

Lord_Blairite


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## severnmiles (5 August 2007)

Who asked you if you were Wig?


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## severnmiles (5 August 2007)

Oh..that half wit.

Shhhhhhhh LB...you're on 'Ignore'.


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## wurzel (5 August 2007)

"One point of interest will be when there was a slight delay in payments from the RPA. Mrs. Beckett personally intervened and ensured that the chief executive was removed from post and that the matter was dealt with in the most responsible way. "

Do you think this looks like responsible management ?


http://new.edp24.co.uk/content/news...=news&amp;itemid=NOED09 Jul 2007 22:12:52:540

http://www.thisisdevon.co.uk/displa...7916824&amp;folderPk=91672&amp;pNodeId=201752

I think this government certainly knows how to take the piss !!

maybe it would be a good idea for us all to become state employees, like you, and then none of us have to really try...

Then Britain would be truly great !!




"&lt;&lt;Interesting ! So why are there less farms producing less every year since 1997 ?&gt;&gt;

I do not recognise these figures. Could you provide a reliable source for this most spurious of claims?"


Sure. here you go.

http://www.ukagriculture.com/statistics/farming_statistics.cfm?strsection=Numbers of Holdings

Where you will also see that imports are going up.

http://statistics.defra.gov.uk/esg/publications/auk/default.asp

And there is the propaganda.

Even they are struggling to hide the truth !!


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## krimpatul (6 August 2007)

You make that choice yourself, you do it to yourself or you have the verbal skills to say you don't want it done and you can decide to stop when evey you want. Your horse and/or other animals who we (as in humans) hurt do not have that choice, we force it onto them and they don't have the option of asking us to stop.
		
Click to expand...

This is ridiculous.  Most ppls horses benefit massively from their care.  Their feed is restricted to prevent them getting laminitus, we spend millions each year on vets bills etc etc.  When the time comes they are put to sleep to avoind agonising deaths.  Horses are pampered animals.  

It's not cruel to pull a horse's mane.


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## wrighty (6 August 2007)

Once again I ask, if it hurts the horse, why do it? Feeding it,paying for vets and putting it to sleep when the time comes are all fine BUT why do somethibg that hurts it?


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## SueD (6 August 2007)

I find this thread a great source of amusement; however I do find it difficult to respect an individual's view if that indiividual seems incapable of grasping the concept of sentence construction and rudimentary application of punctuation.

It would appear that the pro-hunting element have the upper hand there.

To declare my hand, I have followed the hunt both on foot and also, in Ireland, as a mounted member of the field.

Whilst I try to appreciate the views of others, it's always going to be difficult to be objective about such an emotive theme.

Having seen the ghastly mask of a fox killed by poison, I'd rather see them despatched by a pack of hounds any day of the week.

The insurmountable fact remains that land-owners want foxes controlled and through a ban on fox hunting peope are condoning the use of gas, poison and shooting as alternatives.

For me, looking at the fiscal benefits to agricultural areas, employment provided both directly and indirectly by the hunts and the way that, on the whole, old and less robust foxes are taken then for me, this argument is a no-brainer.

Incidentally, a third of the world does not have enough to eat.


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## krimpatul (6 August 2007)

Once again I ask, if it hurts the horse, why do it? Feeding it,paying for vets and putting it to sleep when the time comes are all fine BUT why do somethibg that hurts it?
		
Click to expand...

Because it makes its main look prettier.  It's what you call a symbiotic relationship.  We give the horse lots of benefits and it gives us lots of benefits one of which is looking pretty.

Does main pulling hurt the horse?  Not much I think and probably less then a good hard thwack with a whip while on the trail of a fox.


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## wrighty (6 August 2007)

"Because it makes its main look prettier"
Wow, what a great argument, it's ok to hurt something because it makes it look better. I bet all abused animals and people are thinking just the same. Hmmmmm?

"Does main pulling hurt the horse? Not much I think and probably less then a good hard thwack with a whip while on the trail of a fox."
We have already sort of decided that it hurts when someone compaired it to pulling human hair but thanks for pointing out the wonderful "symbiotic relationship" between the owner/master and the horse that is whipped to make it go faster.


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## severnmiles (6 August 2007)

Not forgetting the humble snare.

This is yet another problem, antis refuse to agree that foxes need controlling, farmers always want them controlled.  No matter what stats the antis use to maintain they don't need culling there will always be a problem fox that needs dispatching.

They (antis/sabs/what have you) thought that they would save foxes lives when a ban came into place, the truth though is that they have not saved the life of a single fox and infact I know of some farmers in England who eradicated any foxes on their land and filled in the earths, spiteful..yes...and not exactly what you'd call controlling the population but after meddling townies put their mark on the countryside what choice did they have?


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## severnmiles (6 August 2007)

A small price to pay, just like the pain us ladies endure week in week out to look 'pretty' for you men.  Lets face it, its expected of us.

And unlike us, our mounts only have to endure it something silly like every month/6weeks and I'm thoughtful, always make sure he's worked first so he's hot and his pores are open.  My ex's horse is hogged so he doesn't have to go through it anyway.


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## Blairite (6 August 2007)

&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;"One point of interest will be when there was a slight delay in payments from the RPA. Mrs. Beckett personally intervened and ensured that the chief executive was removed from post and that the matter was dealt with in the most responsible way. "&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;

&lt;&lt;Do you think this looks like responsible management ?&gt;&gt;

Of course there were serious errors, that has been acknowledged. The article you highlighted did state that Mrs. Beckett had only ever spoken to the Chief Executive of the RPA on two occasions and one of those was the day before she dismissed him. Clearly, that was the right decision for her to make and any compensation or claims he makes subsequent to that are hardly a matter for her. I think the most important thing is we recognise that lessons have been learnt and now would be a good time to draw a line under the matter and move on, for the good of the rural communites. It just won't do to keep living in the past Wurzel. One needs to be more positive about one's situation and look at the additional investment that has gone in. 

 &lt;&lt;I think this government certainly knows how to take the piss !!&gt;&gt;

I don't see how you can make such a claim. The Government acted swiftly to try and put right the serious errors at the RPA. Mrs. Beckett was promoted shortly afterwards, I suspect in part as a result of her Formidable actions. 

&lt;&lt;maybe it would be a good idea for us all to become state employees, like you, and then none of us have to really try...&gt;&gt;

Come now Wurzel, you are being flippant. We are the party of hard work, innovation and thrift - if that is not your forte then I suggest you stick with your Liberal Democrats. 

&lt;&lt;Then Britain would be truly great !!&gt;&gt;

It is! 

&lt;&lt;Interesting ! So why are there less farms producing less every year since 1997 ?&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;

&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;I do not recognise these figures. Could you provide a reliable source for this most spurious of claims?&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;

You will also note that in some areas production is significantly up on previous years. Production does tend to fluctuate. This is the case across the world in a variety of areas, not just agriculture. 

&lt;&lt;Where you will also see that imports are going up.&gt;&gt;

Trade is important of course in many respects. We should try to promote British goods where possible and encourage more people into farming. Agriculture should have more of a feature in the curriculum, in my opinion, which would help young people to understand the way farms operate and the subsidies they receive. 

&lt;&lt;http://statistics.defra.gov.uk/esg/publications/auk/default.asp
And there is the propaganda.
Even they are struggling to hide the truth !!&gt;&gt;

I do not believe it is a case of trying to hide the truth. Defra are publishing the true picture with regards the reality of the situation. Of course there are some difficult challenges, but its surely better for the Department to publish them and face them head on. I am sure that you will appreciate that it is very much an uphill struggle. Farmers are generally politically disengaged and tend to disagree with any Government intervention or regulation, whether or not it is crucial to the rural communities. It is a case of changing mindsets and demonstrating to farmers just how grateful they ought to be in the long run for the huge support and investment in agriculture. 

Regards

Lord_Blairite


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## Eagle_day (6 August 2007)

"Further to that Wurzel, you will know that there has been a confirmed case of Foot&amp;Mouth in Surrey. It seems to me that lessons have been learnt since the last outbreak and operational activity is very much underway in order to contain, control and eradicate this most distressing of diseases. The PM and Environment Secretary, the Steadfast Hillary Benn have both returned early from their holidays to attend CoBRA, the Governments emergency committee. The PM has been in video conference with various ministers to keep a handle on the situation. He has also ordered an initial report to be on his desk in the next 48 hours, as well as ordering an independent inquiry and review in Bio-security at Pirbright. Measures are in place, so lets have none of the usual talk of incompetence and a lack of action. These are the actions of a responsible government, committed to farming and the rural communities, now and for the long term."

Do you really believe that? You must work for Veggie Benn's Defra.

At least with the floods, Labour cuts because of the RPA fiasco only exacerbated the disaster. With FMD, they appear to have caused it.


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## Blairite (7 August 2007)

&lt;&lt;Do you really believe that? You must work for Veggie Benn's Defra&gt;&gt;

The facts speak for themselves. Everything that can be done, is being done. 

&lt;&lt;At least with the floods, Labour cuts because of the RPA fiasco only exacerbated the disaster&gt;&gt;

Nonsense. Investment in flood defences is increasing. Compensation can be claimed back by local authorities from central government using the Belwyn formula. 

&lt;&lt;With FMD, they appear to have caused it.&gt;&gt;

Jumping to conclusions, without any evidence. We must wait for the relevant reports and the let the independent inquiry take its course. I wouldn't like to pre-judge the outcome. If mistakes were made, then of course, further lessons will need to be learnt and officials made accountable. That is the way responsible governments govern. As Wurzel knows, Labour govern for the whole country! 

Regards

Lord_Blairite


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## Eagle_day (7 August 2007)

"Everything that can be done, is being done"
1. Transporting infected carcasses from Surrey to Somerset in sheeted-down grain lorries
2. Leaving rights of way open in the 3 km zone
Everything?

Labour cuts because of the RPA fiasco - £15m from EA's budget last year.

"That is the way responsible governments govern."
But not this government. There wasn't a public enquiry after the 2001 catastrophe; and there won't be one this time. The old line: 'lessons will be learnt; it's time to move on'. And are public sector employees ever held accountable? Maybe we will eventually hear the truth; all I can hear now is the scrabbling of civil servants covering their backsides.


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## Blairite (3 September 2007)

Eagle_day old chum, 

In retrospect, you can now look back and say that actually the Government handled the situation very well indeed. It is a pity you were so quick to cry foul and appoint blame, rather than recognise the action that was being taken for the good of the rural communities and indeed the country, now and for the long term! 

Regards

Lord_Blairite


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## Eagle_day (4 September 2007)

No, I can't. The outbreak was released from a Government facility. The 1967 virus doesn't exist anywhere else in the world, other than the Purbright site.


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## Blairite (4 September 2007)

I am not clear that the source has yet been ascertained for certained. 

Your claim was that this situation would become a crisis and you alledged that the Government was failing to take the appropriate action to halt the spread of the virus. We can now say that you were wrong and that infact the Governments swift actions under the leadership of the Steadfast Hillary Benn halted any further contamination from occuring. 

The irony is that you along with many farmers and those of the Hunting Fraternity, actually wanted the virus to spread further in order to use it against the Government. As we know the last time there was an outbreak, the contamination was spread quickly due to a lack of care and an ignorance of good animal husbandry on farms. The advice of MAFF was ignored and scoffed at. However, I accept that mistakes were made. For this reason Mr. Blair abolished the department and created the revolutionary Defra under the leadership of the Formidable Mrs. Beckett. Great work continues there despite her absence from Government, but be in no doubt, her legacy lives on. 

Regards

Lord_Blairite


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## wurzel (4 September 2007)

What advice from MAFF was ignored ?


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## Eagle_day (5 September 2007)

Thank goodness the outbreak, which clearly originated at Purbright, did not spread. One of my earliest memories was the 1967 outbreak and I don't want to re-live it, any more than I would wish to see 2001 again. Perhaps we owe more thanks to the biosecurity self-imposed by farmers than any Government leadership from the 'Steadfast [but wrongly spelt] Hillary Benn'. The lack of precautions in leaving nearby footpaths open and transporting culled stock in grain wagons did not inspire confidence, but thankfully Defra got away with it.

Your allegations that the hunting fraternity, whoever they are, wanted the disease to spread are fatuous. Any prolonged outbreak would have caused immense suffering and financial loss to our friends, and delayed the hunting season by months.

As for Beckett, she is a standing joke. For some reason and before she lost her seat as Lincoln's MP, she was known as Beckett the Bike - some legacy!


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## Blairite (5 September 2007)

You were around at the time Wurzel. I don't need to rake up old ground. It is now time to draw a line under these matters and move on, for the good of the rural communities. 

Regards


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## Blairite (5 September 2007)

&lt;&lt;Thank goodness the outbreak, which clearly originated at Purbright, did not spread.&gt;&gt; 

The outbreak at 'Purbright' (but wrongly spelt) was contained thanks to the swift actions of this Government. 

&lt;&lt;Perhaps we owe more thanks to the biosecurity self-imposed by farmers than any Government leadership&gt;&gt;

LOLOLOLOL!!!!! What self-imposed measures are these? A bucket of bleach at each gate? Common sense surely. 

&lt;&lt;Your allegations that the hunting fraternity, whoever they are,&gt;&gt;

You and yours. 

&lt;&lt;As for Beckett, she is a standing joke. For some reason and before she lost her seat as Lincoln's MP, she was known as Beckett the Bike - some legacy!&gt;&gt;

Utter bilge. Mrs. Beckett was well respected (and feared) across Government for her Formidable approach. It was a sad day in Whitehall when she chose to bow out of Cabinet Government gracefully. She is sorely missed. 

Regards

Lord_Blairite


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## wurzel (6 September 2007)

You said....



"The advice of MAFF was ignored and scoffed at."

I want to know what you mean exactly.

Have you got the guts to answer or not  you little coward ?


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## Eagle_day (6 September 2007)

"Utter bilge. Mrs. Beckett was well respected (and feared) across Government"

Ah, not by most people then. Her appointment as foreign secretary - to which her response was 'f*ck' - was the nadir of Blair's government. She's yesterday's woman, like her former boss and your patron - remember Tony Blair anyone? It isn't funny how he's utterly disappeared?


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## Blairite (6 September 2007)

&lt;&lt;Ah, not by most people then.&gt;&gt;

Evidence for this claim? No, of course not! 

&lt;&lt;Her appointment as foreign secretary - to which her response was 'f*ck' - was the nadir of Blair's government&gt;&gt;

The surprise came at realising that she was to be the country's FIRST EVER Foreign Secretary. A well deserved post indeed.

&lt;&lt;remember Tony Blair anyone? It isn't funny how he's utterly disappeared?&gt;&gt;

You berk. He is Special Envoy for the UN Quartet and working to achieve peace in the middle east. Try picking up a paper or looking past your own nose now and again. 

Regards


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## Blairite (6 September 2007)

Wurzel,

I have answered your questions repeatedly. You rarely, if ever, take in the information I give you. You really must pay attention, unless you want to fall to the bottom of the class like Severnbiles and Soggy Brain. 

Regards


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## wurzel (6 September 2007)

So what was the answer?

What advice from MAFF was ignored and scoffed at ?

Are you struggling ?


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## wurzel (6 September 2007)

"The surprise came at realising that she was to be the country's FIRST EVER Foreign Secretary. A well deserved post indeed."


The first ever foreign secretary !!!! Now there is a shock.

they conjure up a post just for her and then ditch it again.

What a talent ! What a babe !

I think her husband should get a medal.


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## Eagle_day (7 September 2007)

... or a lovely new caravan.


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## Eagle_day (7 September 2007)

Sticks and stones ...

"You berk. He is Special Envoy for the UN Quartet and working to achieve peace in the middle east. Try picking up a paper or looking past your own nose now and again."

I do and I still haven't seen him. Has he lost any weight?

As to whether he has any credibility in his role, it is rather like f*cking for chastity.


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## Blairite (8 September 2007)

&lt;&lt;The first ever foreign secretary !!!! Now there is a shock.&gt;&gt;

Wurzel,

I meant the FIRST EVER WOMAN Foreign Secretary! 

&lt;&lt;What a talent ! What a babe !&gt;&gt;

Finally you take on the idea. She was the original of the Blair Babes! ;-)

Regards


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