# Is the situation with sabs getting worse?



## Nancykitt (14 October 2018)

A Drag hunt that I've been out with a few times had to change its venue this weekend due to the proprietors of said venue being 'threatened with violence' by sabs. I can understand that they would feel intimidated but it's a pity that the bullies effectively won. And some comments on the facebook page showed that quite a few people had not the faintest idea what drag hunting was. 
I looked at one of the sabs' group pages on facebook and I couldn't believe the level of vitriol on there, it actually took my breath away. It seems that it is a very common tactic to target pubs or other venues where hunts (including established Drag hunts) are parking and issue threats, anything from bad reviews to violence. 
I didn't actually acquire a horse until post-ban so I have no experience of hunting or sab activity before then - but was it this bad/worse than this pre-ban? And does anyone think it's getting worse now?


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## millikins (14 October 2018)

I don't know but the issue of the Momentum inspired rentamob brigade to intimidate and shut down dissenting opinion certainly is.


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## Shay (14 October 2018)

Its different.  But so is society.  In the '70's sabs (and other animal rights groups) would not hesitate to try to bomb you. They don't tend to do that now!  Physical violence (on both sides in fairness) was fairly common.  They would "seed" the undersides of fences to injure the horses as they jumped - I lost my first pony on the field that way in 1978.  There was a phase for pepper spraying hounds.  (Actually that still happens...) But they generally didn't photograph you - and there was no social media.  Threats to associated businesses were more common - but also more ignored.

(I should add here that I hunted until the late 70's and then not again unitl after the ban - so I can't speak with personal experience for the 15 odd years in the middle!)

These days it much much more either "renta-mob" or keyboard warriors.  Local students get paid Â£50 a day to come out and run around with us.  They are usually more interested in annoying the police (who are great) than us.  Mostly they have no idea that the business end is actually where the hounds are rather than where the people are.   Some do not understand the difference between drag and trail hunting - as OP has found. But there are one or two who actually do understand and want to make sure we are within the law - and they are absolutely welcome.  Sabs will track you down on line if they can and troll you - we've even had attempts to get folk dismissed from their jobs by making false allegations.  Obviously that didn't happen pre social media.  They will threaten local business - and I suppose that is also more effective these days, or businesses are more sensitive to it.

In the '70's (at least in my perception) sabs did seem to more or less understand what it was we were doing and why they objected to it.  Now it seems more of them don't really understand what the issues are or why they are annoyed about it.  It seems less focused and certainly less rational.  More about some sort of class war than I remember it being.


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## Michen (15 October 2018)

Excuse my ignorance. What does seeding the jumps mean?

How an animal rights activist can do anything to hurt a horse is just beyond me. So damn hypocritical. 


Shay said:



			Its different.  But so is society.  In the '70's sabs (and other animal rights groups) would not hesitate to try to bomb you. They don't tend to do that now!  Physical violence (on both sides in fairness) was fairly common.  They would "seed" the undersides of fences to injure the horses as they jumped - I lost my first pony on the field that way in 1978.  There was a phase for pepper spraying hounds.  (Actually that still happens...) But they generally didn't photograph you - and there was no social media.  Threats to associated businesses were more common - but also more ignored.

(I should add here that I hunted until the late 70's and then not again unitl after the ban - so I can't speak with personal experience for the 15 odd years in the middle!)

These days it much much more either "renta-mob" or keyboard warriors.  Local students get paid Â£50 a day to come out and run around with us.  They are usually more interested in annoying the police (who are great) than us.  Mostly they have no idea that the business end is actually where the hounds are rather than where the people are.   Some do not understand the difference between drag and trail hunting - as OP has found. But there are one or two who actually do understand and want to make sure we are within the law - and they are absolutely welcome.  Sabs will track you down on line if they can and troll you - we've even had attempts to get folk dismissed from their jobs by making false allegations.  Obviously that didn't happen pre social media.  They will threaten local business - and I suppose that is also more effective these days, or businesses are more sensitive to it.

In the '70's (at least in my perception) sabs did seem to more or less understand what it was we were doing and why they objected to it.  Now it seems more of them don't really understand what the issues are or why they are annoyed about it.  It seems less focused and certainly less rational.  More about some sort of class war than I remember it being.
		
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## Nancykitt (15 October 2018)

One of the sabs pages had a photo of some riders on a road with a comment about how it would be a great idea to sound your horn so it frightens the horses and then see how many of the riders end up hitting the deck. 
I'm just speechless.


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## Snowfilly (15 October 2018)

Seeding was lovely practices such as placing wire over fences to tip horses into rotational falls or putting upturned stakes in landing sites so the horse would land on them. I'd advise not googling or researching any more because it's sickening beyond belief. Pure evil.


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## Pinkvboots (15 October 2018)

Sabs in my view are not for animal rights they are just basically bullies and thugs that like to terrorise people and there animals, if they were true animal lovers they would not be able to carry out such horrific acts.


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## MiJodsR2BlinkinTite (15 October 2018)

IME the "Sabs" I have encountered, albeit briefly, were basically a lot of screaming women............ they were complaining about the Hunt, who'd met in a local town centre, not picking up the horse and hound poo!! It was almost funny, in a daft sort of way.


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## Shay (15 October 2018)

Thats the one... placing stakes on the landing side.  Utterly utterly brutal.

I suppose they thought if they hurt the horses enough we would stop.  In some ways I suppose it worked - I certainly didn't hunt again for many years.  (I was 9 by the way when my pony died under me....)


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## Michen (15 October 2018)

That is completely horrifying. I had no idea. So sorry xx



Shay said:



			Thats the one... placing stakes on the landing side.  Utterly utterly brutal.

I suppose they thought if they hurt the horses enough we would stop.  In some ways I suppose it worked - I certainly didn't hunt again for many years.  (I was 9 by the way when my pony died under me....)
		
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## Shay (17 October 2018)

Makes me very careful about knowing what is on the landing side!  Being a smaller pony he landed shorter than the large horses and that was it.  I was lucky not to be injured - but it didn't feel lucky at the time.  And as Snowfilly says - don't google it.

In some ways I would love to sit down and actually talk to some of those who come out to harass us.  Not the students so much - they are there for the money and a day out running around the countryside.  But the more hard core - and try to understand what it is they think we are doing and why they target us rather than other country sports - or other concerns also involved in wildlife management.  But on the other hand.... suspect that might not have any impact!


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## Apercrumbie (17 October 2018)

Shay said:



			Makes me very careful about knowing what is on the landing side!  Being a smaller pony he landed shorter than the large horses and that was it.  I was lucky not to be injured - but it didn't feel lucky at the time.  And as Snowfilly says - don't google it.

In some ways I would love to sit down and actually talk to some of those who come out to harass us.  Not the students so much - they are there for the money and a day out running around the countryside.  But the more hard core - and try to understand what it is they think we are doing and why they target us rather than other country sports - or other concerns also involved in wildlife management.  But on the other hand.... suspect that might not have any impact!
		
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I'm so sorry - that must have been really traumatic. I just can't believe that supposed animal-lovers would do something like that.


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## Bob notacob (18 October 2018)

In all honesty I dont think it has got worse . It i rather more mild than pre ban. This said ,there are some pretty despicable folk on both sides of the quetion


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## SEL (21 October 2018)

Shay said:



			Thats the one... placing stakes on the landing side.  Utterly utterly brutal.

I suppose they thought if they hurt the horses enough we would stop.  In some ways I suppose it worked - I certainly didn't hunt again for many years.  (I was 9 by the way when my pony died under me....)
		
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That's shocking. I was on teeny tiny Welsh types at 9 and I can only imagine how distressed you must have been. One thing protesting about killing foxes, but they were hardly animal lovers doing that to horses.


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