# American Olympic Team & Christian Athletes to be Fed with Halal Meat



## glennmiller (5 August 2012)

http://boycotthalal.com/halal-menu-olympics/

QUOTE:     American Olympic Team & Christian Athletes to be Fed with Halal Meat

London, 27 July, (Asiantribune.com): 
The 2012 Olympics is leaving a bad taste in many Athletes mouths since they found out the British assured food standard meat is 100% Halal!

This is the deceit and hypocrisy of UK supermarket chains and slaughter houses which, whilst trumpeting the Britishness of their products, surreptitiously purvey Halal meat to the general public and the Olympic teams. 

Halal is the Islamic method of religious slaughter whereby a live animal has its throat slit whilst being blessed in the name of Allah and it can take up to six minutes to die. 

In a investigation it was revealed that supermarkets, butchers and other retailers, restaurants, cafes and the food production and catering industry as a whole, all source from suppliers who serve Muslim as well as non-Muslim customers. 

Some of these suppliers process all their meat to Halal standards. For example, all New Zealand lamb meets Halal standards. And all British lamb and chicken is Halal. In these cases all processes still meet the same stringent animal welfare requirements it is claimed and some animals are stunned prior to slaughter whether the meat is sold as Halal or non-Halal but all is Islamically blessed so it can be used for both the Muslim and non-Muslim market. 

The American Olympic national team are being forced fed by this crawl meat which is blessed with the same words used by the 911 hijackers in the cockpit as they crashed into the world trade centre, French Athletes from their national squad whose country has just suffered a Islamic terrorists killing, Jewish children outside a school are also being forced fed by London 2012 officials with Halal meat. 

The meat is not Labeled in the UK, So shoppers and catering industry do not know they are in fact eating Halal. Its hidden truth came out from email press statements made by several supermarkets that meat sourced in the UK is all pressed Halal so they can serve the 4% of the population with religious slaughter Islamically blessed meat. 

India whose Olympic team might also object under religious grounds being Hindus and Spain, Denmark and Russia are just a few who could ask London 2012 organizers what are we eating as British Red Tractor meat according to all major supermarkets is in fact now slaughtered islamically to save packaging costs. 

As the world looks at London, the British meat industry gets ready to show off some of its finest meat, forgetting to tell anyone that in fact theres not much that is British in the method it is slaughtered. The reason why the abattoirs are slaughtering most meat Halal now, is to sell the parts of the carcass that most British people 96% of them dont use, to other markets 4% Muslims who do use it. 

This minimizes food waste, keeps prices down for customers and helps our farmers says meat retailers. 

Christian Athletes who are being forced fed Islamic meat in the Olympic village like the American team!


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## MerrySherryRider (5 August 2012)

Thank you for highlighting this. I object to being sold unlabelled halal meat in supermarkets too. Stopped buying lamb because of this.
 Why on earth would the majority of the British public want to eat halal meat ? A choice would be good.


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## eahotson (6 August 2012)

Is this a complaint about animal welfare or a 'Christian' anti muslim rant? The post smacks of racism to me.Large swahes of Muslims are perfectly decent people.They have some scum for sure, don't we all!


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## PolarSkye (6 August 2012)

Glenmiller - welcome to the Forum.  We always like to hear from new members and share common experiences with others who love and care about horses.  Please introduce yourself - tell us about your interest in horses, riding and equestrian sports.

If you have no interest in anything to do with horses, please take your incoherent, overtly political and heavily biased rant somewhere more appropriate.

Thank you.

PolarSkye


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## perfect11s (6 August 2012)

horserider said:



			Thank you for highlighting this. I object to being sold unlabelled halal meat in supermarkets too. Stopped buying lamb because of this.
 Why on earth would the majority of the British public want to eat halal meat ? A choice would be good.
		
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 Yes barbaric practice, however people are more worryed about  apeaseing a religion that has no respect for others so it will continue....


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## MerrySherryRider (6 August 2012)

Perhaps this article in the daily mail is a more informative and non-racist article regarding the non labeling of halal meat being sold in supermarkets and food outlets.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-M-S-dont-tell-meat-ritually-slaughtered.html

 It seems strange that we can have meat labeled as non GM, organic, corn fed, etc. etc, but we are not given the information as to whether it is halal or not. The information would give consumers a choice. How many people in the UK would actively seek to buy halal ? Percentage-wise, very few.


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## Maesfen (6 August 2012)

perfect11s said:



			Yes barbaric practice, however people are more worryed about  apeaseing a religion that has no respect for others so it will continue....
		
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Spot on.


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## Taffyhorse (6 August 2012)

Wow - that has to be one of the most balanced articles in the Daily Fail that I've ever read - shame all their articles aren't like that!! 

Much better than the other article which just appeared to want to go off on a racist rant - not really interested in that... 

I agree that all meat should be labelled if its halal - people (all people, regardless of religion or race) should be able to make an informed choice about their purchases.


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## misterjinglejay (6 August 2012)

PolarSkye said:



			Glenmiller - welcome to the Forum.  We always like to hear from new members and share common experiences with others who love and care about horses.  Please introduce yourself - tell us about your interest in horses, riding and equestrian sports.

If you have no interest in anything to do with horses, please take your incoherent, overtly political and heavily biased rant somewhere more appropriate.

Thank you.

PolarSkye
		
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Well said! Yes, the practice is cruel and inhumane, however religion shouldn't come into this arguement.


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## ihatework (6 August 2012)

That is really quite scary - I would never voluntarily choose to consume halal meat yet am being mis-led into doing just that? Yet another reason only to buy meat locally.

I don't support the racist inflammatory way the OP was written,  but the topic I do support being raised, speechless.


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## Shutterbug (6 August 2012)

ihatework said:



			That is really quite scary - I would never voluntarily choose to consume halal meat yet am being mis-led into doing just that? Yet another reason only to buy meat locally.

I don't support the racist inflammatory way the OP was written,  but the topic I do support being raised, speechless.
		
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Agree

My employer provides Halal meat in the canteen - but the staff cant tell me if all the meat is halal prepared so I don't eat any of it - I am entitled to a choice too and have complained to my senior management.


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## SusannaF (6 August 2012)

What about any American athletes who are muslims?


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## ClobellsandBaubles (6 August 2012)

eahotson said:



			Is this a complaint about animal welfare or a 'Christian' anti muslim rant? The post smacks of racism to me.Large swahes of Muslims are perfectly decent people.They have some scum for sure, don't we all!
		
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Agree.
There have been many a Christian terrorist too ya know. It is also possible to be a Muslim AND British, I would like to think the Olympics has shown us diversity and inclusion. I think the OP needs to rethink what is means to be 'British'.
Yes I think the food should be appropriately labelled but the most important think to think about is the animals welfare!


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## MerrySherryRider (6 August 2012)

SusannaF said:



			What about any American athletes who are muslims?
		
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I'm sure they would like to know what they are eating too. Correct labellling gives everyone a choice.
We all take for granted labels for vegetarians, ethically farmed meat, free range eggs.... why are we prohibited from knowing how our meat is slaughtered ?


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## SusannaF (6 August 2012)

horserider said:



			I'm sure they would like to know what they are eating too. Correct labellling gives everyone a choice.
We all take for granted labels for vegetarians, ethically farmed meat, free range eggs.... why are we prohibited from knowing how our meat is slaughtered ?
		
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Was aimed at the OP. I wouldn't take the stuff he's just spammed here at face value.


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## Freddie19 (6 August 2012)

This is total and absolute rubbish,  British Assured Meat is NOT I repeat not butchered to Halal standards.  I do not know who you are or what your agenda is, but take it elsewhere.    If the horse and hound posters on this forum, do not believe me, please feel free to visit your nearest slaughter house.  I love my animals, my husband for many many years was a top class butcher, we do not like Halal slaughter methods, and indeed would never never have anything to do with them.  I have complete and utter respect for the majority of slaughter houses in the nation.  They try and treat all the animals coming through their doors with respect.  The job is not a pleasant one, but until this country comes competely veggie, animals will continue to be slaughtered and eaten.  So once again I repeat that although there may be Halal meat available in the Olympic village for those whose religion demands it, It is not all the same.


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## MerrySherryRider (7 August 2012)

Freddie, you are incorrect. Halal meat is not labelled as such and is widely sold in supermarkets and resturants/ takeaways.


At present the RSPCA is campaigning for the labelling of produce that has been slaughtered without stunning so that consumers have a choice, which at present, we do not. 

Unless you buy from a local butcher or farm shop, or the supermarket's 'Freedom Food' meat, the meat may very likely, be halal. 

Pork is obviously safe.


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## Copperpot (7 August 2012)

I would like meat to be labelled too so I can make an informed
choice. And for companies such as McDonalds etc to also disclose their slaughter methods.


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## Kat (7 August 2012)

No one is being force fed anything OP. Each and every person has the choice about what they eat. If eating Halal meat is a concern for someone then they have the option to either satisfy themselves that the meat meets their own moral standards or they can reject it all together. 

If people are too lazy or too ambivalent to investigate or source alternatives then they obviously aren't that bothered. 

Force feeding is generally restricted to prisoners on hunger strike, and people who have been sectioned. This is because they are rejecting all food to the detriment of their health and not because they object to religiously slaughtered meat. Force feeding does not occur in schools, or restaurants or in the athletes village at the Olympics. 

Stop exaggerating for effect it just makes you look ridiculous.


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## MagicMelon (7 August 2012)

eahotson said:



			Is this a complaint about animal welfare or a 'Christian' anti muslim rant? The post smacks of racism to me.Large swahes of Muslims are perfectly decent people.They have some scum for sure, don't we all!
		
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There's nothing racist about this post at all?!  The arguement is that why should we ALL have to eat halal meat?  I dont like my choice being taken away, by them not labelling meat. Im horrified that so much supermarket meat is halal as standard, thats ridiculous.


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## Dobiegirl (7 August 2012)

I wouldnt want to eat Halal meat and that is from a welfare prospective rather than a religious one that is why our meat is purchased from the local butcher.

My daughters boyfriend was disgusted to learn that only halal was served in the canteen where he is at college. 

A lot of people who dont see halal on the label will believe it to be from humanely slaughtered animals and it needs to be labeled as such to give people the choice.


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## Luci07 (7 August 2012)

Another whom agrees meat should be labelled. I do buy locally but would like the option of buying say, burgers from sainsburys! Will toddle off to research this now!


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## CorvusCorax (7 August 2012)

Funny,don't recall anyone ever ranting and raving from the rooftops about Kosher meat.....or the cooking technique for lobsters or crabs (straight into boiling water for many of them....)


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## Freddie19 (7 August 2012)

CaveCanem said:



			Funny,don't recall anyone ever ranting and raving from the rooftops about Kosher meat.....or the cooking technique for lobsters or crabs (straight into boiling water for many of them....)
		
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With you on this one CC, have never or could never eat lobsters or crabs because of this fact.   Have to say again, I take all this "only meat served in works canteen is halal".  With a large question mark.  Times have not changed that much.


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## MiJodsR2BlinkinTite (7 August 2012)

It is a pity that OP uses a quotation which (as someone else has said, can't remember who) is exceedingly unhelpful in that it leans towards racist & inflammatory rhetoric; there's a whole wealth of this stuff readily available on scare-mongering websites, a lot of which are run by fundamentalist extreme Christian groups regrettably.

I for one think that the whole issue of food labelling goes nowhere near far enough; and wouldn't personally choose to buy Halal meat simply because of the welfare issues involved. I feel as a consumer I should have the choice; either buy or don't buy - and should be given the information at point of sale so that I am able to make an informed choice. 

However: I am sure that OP, as they are obviously new to this forum, will take this important issue to a forum where it can be debated properly and where there is a pressure group which can bring pressure to bear in an informed way via parliamentary and other channels. 

But as a predominantly equine and country pursuits forum, this may not be the appropriate place??


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## MerrySherryRider (8 August 2012)

Email recieved from tesco yesterday. All chicken and New Zealand lamb is halal. However if you buy the more expensive ranges such as British organic lamb and chicken, or the Finest Free Range lines, these will not be halal. So, there's your choice, you need to buy premium lines for non halal meat. No mention of labelling either. 
 Well, isn't that great for families on a low income during a recession.

Here's a copy of the email.-

*Dear Marie

Thank you for contacting us regarding the sale of Halal meat in our stores.    

We sell Halal meat in our stores to meet customer demand and to demonstrate that everyone is welcome at Tesco.

I would like to reassure you that we require all slaughter processes in our supply chain, including Halal, to meet our stringent animal welfare requirements. In every case, the animal is stunned before slaughter so that it is insensible and feels no pain. 

Like all other major UK supermarkets, we source from suppliers who serve Muslim as well as non-Muslim customers. Some of these suppliers process all their meat to Halal standards. For example, all New Zealand lamb meets Halal standards. In these cases, all of our processes still meet the same stringent animal welfare requirements and all animals are stunned prior to slaughter whether the meat is sold as Halal or non-Halal.    

We understand that there are some customers who, for religious reasons, would like to know if the meat they are eating is Halal. We are very happy to be entirely transparent about this.  

All fresh meat we sell is not Halal, except for lamb and chicken and of those ranges we can absolutely assure you that if you buy British organic lamb and chicken as well as the Willow Farm and Finest Free Range lines, these will not be Halal either.          

Thank you for bringing your concerns to our attention. I hope that the above information is helpful.

Kind regards

Sarah Taylor
Tesco Customer Service*


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## HBM1 (8 August 2012)

Freddie19 said:



			With you on this one CC, have never or could never eat lobsters or crabs because of this fact.   Have to say again, I take all this "only meat served in works canteen is halal".  With a large question mark.  Times have not changed that much.
		
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Actually I heard first hand this week from someone who works in catering at Heathrow that ALL meat served there is Halal.  She said "no one knows it is", so they do not label it as such.  My objection to eating Halal meat is that I do not like how it is killed and I want to know why we are frowned upon for not wishing to eat Halal, yet Muslims will not touch our meat and that is ok.  Surely we all have the right to choose, not just one religion?  If I go out for a curry, I expect to eat Halal meat as I obviously would not expect those making the meal to go against their beliefs  However, when I am purchasing from a canteen or a supermarket, I want the choice on an equal footing to anyone else thanks.

Edited to add that one of the places I work currently label their sandwiches as to whether they are halal or not, as well as their hot meals, so if they can do it, why can't they all.


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## Freddie19 (8 August 2012)

HBM1 said:



			Actually I heard first hand this week from someone who works in catering at Heathrow that ALL meat served there is Halal.  She said "no one knows it is", so they do not label it as such.  My objection to eating Halal meat is that I do not like how it is killed and I want to know why we are frowned upon for not wishing to eat Halal, yet Muslims will not touch our meat and that is ok.  Surely we all have the right to choose, not just one religion?  If I go out for a curry, I expect to eat Halal meat as I obviously would not expect those making the meal to go against their beliefs  However, when I am purchasing from a canteen or a supermarket, I want the choice on an equal footing to anyone else thanks.

Edited to add that one of the places I work currently label their sandwiches as to whether they are halal or not, as well as their hot meals, so if they can do it, why can't they all.
		
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I would like to think that someone (maybe me) will give the caterers at Heathrow the opportunity to answer this.


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## HBM1 (8 August 2012)

Freddie19 said:



			I would like to think that someone (maybe me) will give the caterers at Heathrow the opportunity to answer this.
		
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Give them a ring, I am not saying it in a negative way, I am just letting people know that it is not always the case that people know what they are eating.  One of my current managers is a Muslim, she is fasting currently, but on occasion will bring food into the office.  I do not refuse it because it is halal, but I do *know* it is.  Equally, if I ever bring any foods into the office (if there is an office function etc) I will ensure I make it using Halal meats/eggs/fish etc.  This is not about religion, or culture, I value all cultures, and work with pretty much all cultures,  - it is about food choice and everyone being on an equal footing.

ps, the company providing the catering at Heathrow I referred to is this one

http://www.eurestservices.co.uk/


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## JVB (8 August 2012)

Blimey I had no idea! Looks like I'm ok in Sainsbury's on the whole but no more lamb it would seem! And I've got a nice lamb shoulder joint in the freezer, not sure how I feel about eating it now...


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## CorvusCorax (8 August 2012)

From Tesco email:
"In every case, the animal is stunned before slaughter so that it is insensible and feels no pain."

"In these cases, all of our processes still meet the same stringent animal welfare requirements and all animals are stunned prior to slaughter whether the meat is sold as Halal or non-Halal."

So the problem is what, exactly? 
So an animal can be stunned and electrocuted (chicken) or have a bolt killer put through it's brain (cow, pig), as long as it does not have it's throat cut (which will happen after slaughter anyway)

Does anyone want to address my Kosher point apart from Freddie19 or is Kosher food and lobster thermidor and crab cakes are OK because the people killing and eating it are less brown? Lobsters and crabs aren't cute? Is anyone jumping up and down because hot dog sausages are not labelled as Kosher?


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## HBM1 (8 August 2012)

CaveCanem said:



			Does anyone want to address my Kosher point apart from Freddie19 or is Kosher food and lobster thermidor and crab cakes are OK *because the people killing and eating it are less brown*? Lobsters and crabs aren't cute? Is anyone jumping up and down because hot dog sausages are not labelled as Kosher?
		
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Ok, I will bite, I truly object to you making this a race - or more to the point - a colour issue!  I would also like to point out that millions of Muslims are actually white!  this has NOTHING to do with race, culture or religion.  I get so annoyed when a person cannot have an opinion on what they eat, without being told they are being racist!  For the record, I do not eat lobster because of how it is killed, or crab for that matter.  As far as I know I have not eaten kosher foods, but isn't this the debate we are having, how would we often know exactly what we are eating?


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## CorvusCorax (8 August 2012)

But it is a race and religion thing, I did not make it so - I don't recall any hoo-haa about Kosher food.

What exactly is the difference between stunning an animal and then shoving a bolt through it's brain, zapping it with a high voltage current, or slitting it's throat and letting it bleed out?
The animals die to go on our plates. They just die in slightly different ways and are stunned beforehand. 

I don't give a hoot either way to be honest, black, white, brown, crabs, cows, chickens, I will eat most things, within reason, my father worked in slaughterhouses for years, I know exactly what goes on and I am happy with welfare standards on these islands.

What I don't like is double standards and hypocrisy.

Oh and I think the OP made it a race and religion thing:
"Christian Athletes who are being forced fed Islamic meat in the Olympic village like the American team!"


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## HBM1 (8 August 2012)

CaveCanem said:



			But it is a race and religion thing, I did not make it so - I don't recall any hoo-haa about Kosher food.
		
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I havent scoured the internet or forums for this, so couldnt say if there was or was not.  I have answered todays debate.



CaveCanem said:



			What exactly is the difference between stunning an animal and then shoving a bolt through it's brain, zapping it with a high voltage current, or slitting it's throat and letting it bleed out?....
		
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If there was no difference then surely Muslims would eat non-halal meatclearly there IS a difference in how people perceive it, isnt there.


CaveCanem said:



			Oh and I think the OP made it a race and religion thing:.....

"Christian Athletes who are being forced fed Islamic meat in the Olympic village like the American team!"
		
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I am not the OP, I am merely putting my own views forward.  I know I am not a racist, so I object to being lumped in as one, just because someone else may be.


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## CorvusCorax (8 August 2012)

I am not calling you a racist, my post was not addressed to anyone in particular, it was a question to all - 'is X ok because of Y?' etc


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## NoseyPosey (8 August 2012)

HBM1 said:



			I will ensure I make it using Halal meats/eggs/fish etc.
		
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How does that work - you quietly & respectfully slit the shell & let the white & yolk drain out in order to limit the egg's suffering & pain?

A quick question about Halal meat -

The Koran (or Q'uran) provides guidance on what followers of Islam can & cannot eat, hence the method of slaughtering animals under discussion. Yet the Koran also states that "The food of the People of the Book [Jews and Christians] is lawful for you as your food is lawful for them." So that would suggest that Halal meat is actually desirable where available rather than necessary, would it not?



TESCO said:



			We sell Halal meat in our stores to meet customer demand and to demonstrate that everyone is welcome at Tesco.
		
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In my experience, those wishing to buy Halal meat will be more likely to go to a Halal butcher where it is clear that the meat is Halal, rather than a Supermarket where it is not clear!!


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## Armas (8 August 2012)

MagicMelon said:



			There's nothing racist about this post at all?!  The arguement is that why should we ALL have to eat halal meat?  I dont like my choice being taken away, by them not labelling meat. Im horrified that so much supermarket meat is halal as standard, thats ridiculous.
		
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As above !


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## ihatework (8 August 2012)

CaveCanem said:



			From Tesco email:
"In every case, the animal is stunned before slaughter so that it is insensible and feels no pain."

"In these cases, all of our processes still meet the same stringent animal welfare requirements and all animals are stunned prior to slaughter whether the meat is sold as Halal or non-Halal."

So the problem is what, exactly? 
So an animal can be stunned and electrocuted (chicken) or have a bolt killer put through it's brain (cow, pig), as long as it does not have it's throat cut (which will happen after slaughter anyway)

Does anyone want to address my Kosher point apart from Freddie19 or is Kosher food and lobster thermidor and crab cakes are OK because the people killing and eating it are less brown? Lobsters and crabs aren't cute? Is anyone jumping up and down because hot dog sausages are not labelled as Kosher?
		
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I don't eat crab/lobster because I think the method of killing is horrendously cruel.

I believe people should have the informed choice about what meat to purchase and eat with regards to how it is killed. I would prefer to eat stunned and bolted meat over stunned and throat cut meat, purely because if the stunning goes wrong the bolt back up is much quicker than the bleed to death option.


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## CorvusCorax (8 August 2012)

You don't have to be horrified, just buy your meat from a local butcher instead of a supermarket....where it will be killed with a bolt through it's head instead....


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## ihatework (8 August 2012)

CaveCanem said:



			You don't have to be horrified, just buy your meat from a local butcher instead of a supermarket....where it will be killed with a bolt through it's head instead....
		
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I will do. 

You are kind of missing the point about informed choice though, there is no reason halal killed meat couldn't/shouldn't be indicated on the labelling.


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## HBM1 (8 August 2012)

NoseyPosey said:



			How does that work - you quietly & respectfully slit the shell & let the white & yolk drain out in order to limit the egg's suffering & pain?

QUOTE]

now there's a thought, poor eggie
		
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## Penny Less (8 August 2012)

I would certainly like to have the choice, I buy free range eggs by choice because I dont like the way battery hens are treated, so should be able to choose my meat likewise


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## Copperpot (8 August 2012)

I don't think it is racist not wishing others religious views/beliefs being forced upon you without your knowledge. 

If I were visiting a Muslim country I would expect to have to eat halal meat as this is their choice. I don't expect to have to eat it without my prior knowledge and consent in this country. 

I expect to be given a choice over what I eat.


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## fatpiggy (8 August 2012)

Lord, its common knowledge that the vast majority of meat bought in supermarkets is halal. If you want to be sure it isn't by from a local farmer.  Incidentally, most peoples' grandparents were eating meat which we would call halal now - stunning animals before their thoats are cut is a relatively modern practice.  Are we all going to shout at our grannies for being cruel???


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## rockysmum (8 August 2012)

I personally cant believe they get away with this.

Produce is labelled according to how it is kept these days, eg eggs from barn or free range.

How dare they sell something like this without labelling it.  Its nothing to do with racism, people should have the choice.  I bet if they labelled it sales would go through the floor.

I'm veggie but meat does come into my house, it wont be coming from these sources again.  I complained when my daughter school started using only Halal, as did most other parents.

On this one I would support anyone choosing to take them on, must be worth a campaign from one of the groups.


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## CanadianGirl (8 August 2012)

I don't know how they slaughter animals for consumption in the UK, but here they use a captive bolt gun which shoots a bolt into their brain.  It's not a very nice death either, yet everyone happily eats their steak, pork and lamb.  

Because I eat meat that hasn't been humanely killed, I don't think that I'm in a position to freak out because of another way to do it.  I eat Kosher food and enjoy it and frankly don't care what kind of prayer the animal listened to on it's way out.  It all tastes the same to me.


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## Fairynuff (8 August 2012)

humane slaughter is a myth. All sluaghter is violent. If you are so worried about what you are eating and how it was reared, fattened and killed do what I did...become vegetarian!  Why does GB pamper and pander to the minorities?


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## PorkChop (8 August 2012)

CaveCanem said:



			But it is a race and religion thing, I did not make it so - I don't recall any hoo-haa about Kosher food.

What exactly is the difference between stunning an animal and then shoving a bolt through it's brain, zapping it with a high voltage current, or slitting it's throat and letting it bleed out?
The animals die to go on our plates. They just die in slightly different ways and are stunned beforehand. 

I don't give a hoot either way to be honest, black, white, brown, crabs, cows, chickens, I will eat most things, within reason, my father worked in slaughterhouses for years, I know exactly what goes on and I am happy with welfare standards on these islands.

What I don't like is double standards and hypocrisy.

Oh and I think the OP made it a race and religion thing:
"Christian Athletes who are being forced fed Islamic meat in the Olympic village like the American team!"
		
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Completely agree with this, you are spot on, the majority of those that are kicking up are hypocrites.


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## Nugget La Poneh (8 August 2012)

If people want cheap meat and other fresh food items outside of the growing season (which can include meat) then they need to accept they do not have a choice on how/where it has been dealt with. I agree that all animal husbandry should be humane and they shouldn't be crammed in and duffed up by people for a laugh, but in order to provide what people want on a budget something has to give. 

There is a choice - you just have to pay a bit more or search a bit harder for it and accept that for 6 months of the year you can't eat it fresh.

As someone else has said, halal type practices (minus the blessing) have happened for 10's of years. Sometimes I have to wonder how much of the aversion to halal is not necessarily because of the slaughter, but because of the religion it belongs to - all because of a militant minority... As also remarked on, there is no mention of kosher meat whereby no method of stunning is allowed, yet hahal at least allows it before slaughter.


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## christine48 (9 August 2012)

I believe all meat served on airlines is Hal Hal meat.
I'm not sure how humane our slaughter houses are either.


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## honeymum (9 August 2012)

glennmiller said:



http://boycotthalal.com/halal-menu-olympics/

Some of these suppliers process all their meat to Halal standards. For example, all New Zealand lamb meets Halal standards. And all British lamb and chicken is Halal. In these cases all processes still meet the same stringent animal welfare requirements it is claimed* and some animals are stunned prior to slaughter *whether the meat is sold as Halal or non-Halal but all is Islamically blessed so it can be used for both the Muslim and non-Muslim market.
		
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Then I am afraid it is not Halal as Muslims are not allowed to stun before slaughtering. I have asked this question of several Muslims and the answer is always the same, not Halal if it's been stunned first, it must be alive and moving when slaugtered . None of my Muslim friends or their families would dream of buying Halal meat from a supermarkt for this very reason and all buy from Halal butchers.


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## CorvusCorax (9 August 2012)

christine48 said:



			I believe all meat served on airlines is Hal Hal meat.
I'm not sure how humane our slaughter houses are either.
		
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I always take the vegetarian meals on planes anyway, not for any moral reasons, just because the meat meals are usually minging


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## Penny Less (10 August 2012)

There has been a heck of a lot of fuss about cloned meat, and it not being allowed into the food chain, and genetically modified wheat etc.  That has to be labelled, so  why not halal meat ?


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## SusannaF (13 August 2012)

CaveCanem said:



			But it is a race and religion thing, I did not make it so - I don't recall any hoo-haa about Kosher food.

What exactly is the difference between stunning an animal and then shoving a bolt through it's brain, zapping it with a high voltage current, or slitting it's throat and letting it bleed out?
The animals die to go on our plates. They just die in slightly different ways and are stunned beforehand. 

I don't give a hoot either way to be honest, black, white, brown, crabs, cows, chickens, I will eat most things, within reason, my father worked in slaughterhouses for years, I know exactly what goes on and I am happy with welfare standards on these islands.

What I don't like is double standards and hypocrisy.

Oh and I think the OP made it a race and religion thing:
"Christian Athletes who are being forced fed Islamic meat in the Olympic village like the American team!"
		
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Yep. The people who make a big fuss about halal never mention kosher meat.

Frankly, from what I've read, the conditions in many large US slaughter houses are nightmarish, and that's without halal practices. 

Fairynuff is right.


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## Goldenstar (13 August 2012)

I am not aware that any thing in christian belief would prevent eating Hallal meat.


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## snopuma (13 August 2012)

I work for a frozen food company and last year  found out that all the meat is halal, what really makes me sick is that none of it is labelled as such and a far as halal goes, the meat is  only blessed after humane slaughter so not really halal either, yet they have a range that is sold as halal.  needless to  say as I don't really know what I am eating I don't touch any of it now!


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## CorvusCorax (13 August 2012)

snopuma said:



			I work for a frozen food company and last year  found out that all the meat is halal, 

what really makes me sick is that none of it is labelled as such and a far as halal goes, the meat is  only blessed after *humane slaughter* *so not really halal either*,
		
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So....it was _slaughtered humanely_ and is _not really halal_ in your own words - so why would it be labelled as such, and why does it make you sick?


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## MerrySherryRider (13 August 2012)

Good news.

Morrisons seem to be the only supermarket that sells 100% fresh, British,non halal meat. 

Some of its frozen meat may be halal and they do sell branded Halal and Kosher lines but otherwise this is one supermarket that isn't secretly giving customers no ethical choice.
 Perhaps that's why Morrison's meat tastes so good, Asda and Tesco meat is insipid.

Secretly selling Kosher isn't a problem, as those who want Kosher products need to ensure that the food is correctly labelled, otherwise they wouldn't buy it.

I don't think anyone is saying don't sell halal or kosher, just put a label on it and allow consumers a choice.


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## Miss L Toe (13 August 2012)

ihatework said:



			That is really quite scary - I would never voluntarily choose to consume halal meat yet am being mis-led into doing just that? Yet another reason only to buy meat locally.

.
		
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Interesting, but animals are slaughtered in UK slaughter houses under UK standards, the heads are cut off and presumably go to pet foods, the blood has to be drained out of the meat or it would be indedible, however I don't think any misguided person chanting some religious dogma is going to put me off eating meat, if it is a sop to the muslims and others who eat halal meat , I don't care.
By the way if you want to see religious ritual slaughter banned think about kocher killing, now that is pretty inhumane, but I don't hear protests about that.


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## MerrySherryRider (13 August 2012)

Miss L Toe said:



			Interesting, but animals are slaughtered in UK slaughter houses under UK standards, the heads are cut off and presumably go to pet foods, the blood has to be drained out of the meat or it would be indedible, however I don't think any misguided person chanting some religious dogma is going to put me off eating meat, if it is a sop to the muslims and others who eat halal meat , I don't care.
By the way if you want to see religious ritual slaughter banned think about kocher killing, now that is pretty inhumane, but I don't hear protests about that.
		
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But no one here is protesting against halal or kosher meat, that's another topic entirely. The issue is about labelling and choice. 

Having just read some British univeristy backed research about how long it takes for an animal that hasn't been stunned to die - and to stop struggling, I for one will ensure that all meat I eat is definitely not halal or kosher. 
 Interestingly, stunning doesn't automatically mean stunned before being cut, it may mean that it has been stunned after, but before death.


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## Llewellyn (13 August 2012)

Here is an idea all, go to your local independent butchers who use local slaughter houses and meat. Ask them about the slaughter methods. Support the high-street, get better quality meat and be sure of the place it comes from. Equally if that way inclined trot along to a halal butcher.


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## NoseyPosey (14 August 2012)

So let's get this right - anybody who walks up to a healthy live animal and slits its throat leaving it to die in a field would be charged with animal cruelty but those who do it in a designated building are allowed to secretly sell it?


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## MissTyc (14 August 2012)

And all British lamb and chicken is Halal. In these cases all processes still meet the same stringent animal welfare requirements it is claimed and some animals are stunned prior to slaughter whether the meat is sold as Halal or non-Halal but all is Islamically blessed so it can be used for both the Muslim and non-Muslim market.
		
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Don't know anything about most of the post, but I have visited slaughter houses supplying hundreds of thousands of chickens for huge supermarket chains and none had anyone doing any "Islamic blessing" .... the standards applied for the slaughter were exactly what I'd expected, no more no less.


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## Perissa (14 August 2012)

I am absolutely stunned (no pun intended) as I have just raised the topic if meat should be labled Halal or not with my colleagues.

Myself and one other want clear labling.

The other 4 said QUOTE 'don't care' and things like 'what does it matter, meat is meat'. 

None of the people I work with are animal people, if you understand what I mean by that but I would have thought that they would care what is on their plate.

I am sat here deeply saddened and a little upset that the majority of people I work with show so little compassion towards how their meat is slaughtered.

One lady said but its their religion and I agreed, but also said that why should I have to have it too, she said that its your choice and doesn't get my reasoning that it isn't my choice if it isn't labled as such.  Not sure if that makes sense but hopefully you get my meaning.


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## applecart14 (15 August 2012)

People don't realise how much suffering is caused to animals using the halal/kosher methods of slaughter.  I think they 'just die' immediately which is what I was always led to believe.  After reading Animal Aid and other sites I now know this is not the case and I am greatly distressed and appalled by how much suffering does go on.  I have access to Ban Halal on Facebook.  Suggest you all join and give your support.  The photos are pretty horiffic but good to see what its all about.


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## Elsiecat (15 August 2012)

Reading this I'm shocked by how many people are missing the point.
Its not an attack on Islam or Muslims. Neither is it about 'colour' or religion. I'd also like to point out it isn't racist as nothing derogatory has been said, neither have any stereotypes been mentioned, it is in no way offensive. Besides, Islam is a religion, not a race. 

The problem here is CHOICE. I should know whether what I'm about to buy/eat is Halal. The people saying 'but it doesn't make any different to Christians' etc - Would you serve otherwise slaughtered meat to a Muslim without warning them? No you wouldn't. Would it make any difference to them if they didn't know? No. Would they be horrified if they eat it and it was? Yes, probably.

It isn't about terrorism or extremists or a mis-understood religion, its about choice. 
I'm very shocked by how many adults on here can't seem to grasp this.

*Runs and hides.*


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## NoseyPosey (15 August 2012)

The trouble is Elsiecat, that when a conversation (which this is) is started on one subject it will invariably spark ideas or opinions that lead to others more or less on the same subject, intended or not.


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## Elsiecat (15 August 2012)

NoseyPosey said:



			The trouble is Elsiecat, that when a conversation (which this is) is started on one subject it will invariably spark ideas or opinions that lead to others more or less on the same subject, intended or not.
		
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Nothing baffles me more than how whenever religion is mentioned people pull the racism cards out. I appreciate other opinions, I just think some people on this are entirely missing the mark


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## MerrySherryRider (15 August 2012)

elsiecat said:



			Nothing baffles me more than how whenever religion is mentioned people pull the racism cards out. I appreciate other opinions, I just think some people on this are entirely missing the mark 

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Very true. We live in a very cosmopolitan society and pulling the racism card where no racism exists is effectively a type of censorship.
 Correct labeling of food is a concern for all consumers.


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## Elsiecat (15 August 2012)

horserider said:



			Very true. We live in a very cosmopolitan society and pulling the racism card where no racism exists is effectively a type of censorship.
 Correct labeling of food is a concern for all consumers.
		
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Honestly, sometimes I'm offended by what people seem to find offensive!


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## CorvusCorax (15 August 2012)

This is a QR for those who are offended that I have not called them a racist 

I repeat, I am not offended, I just don't like hypocrisy, for example, I would be a hypocrite if I said 'I love eating dead animals. Grr, I just hate how animals have to be killed for me to eat them' or 'I disagree how this animal was killed in this way in the name of this religion, but not with how that animal was killed in pretty much the same way in the name of that religion, because there is less of that religion about these days, oh and I didn't know they did that anyway'.

But do take on board the point re labelling. It would be nice to see a label that said that the cow that made my Whopper burger that I had for lunch just now, passed away peacefully on a soft bed on straw while sad music was piped into the barn. But it was actually forced down a chute with all his other buddies and had a bolt put through it's head then it was hung upside down and a hook and bled out through it's throat, most likely.


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## Murphy88 (15 August 2012)

Haven't read all the posts, so apologies if I am repeating something already said, but just wanted to add another view point to it.

I have been to the sheep abattoir used by Asda for all of their lamb. I was surprised prior to my visit to learn that all animals were slaughtered under halal practice (it would be too difficult to seperate out halal/non-halal carcasses, the volume of animals going through is huge). However, having seen every stage of the slaughter process, I can honestly say I believe there is no greater level of suffering for these animals than with standard slaughter - I stood and watched the animals be stunned and their throats cut, it was quick, painless, and the animals appeared to be in very little distress (and as a vet I think I am relatively well qualified to assess these points.) The holding pens etc are all designed to reduce stress, and there are strict procedures in place to ensure no animal goes through that isn't fit. The sheep toddle into the chute, are stunned and then a trained halal slaughterman cuts their throat immediately. 

I do not agree with any form of religious slaughter that occurs without stunning, however I equally have no problem buying lamb from Tesco/Asda, because I have seen the process and am happy that the stunning they receive is adequate. Yes, I suppose ideally the meat would be labelled with Halal, but given that the only difference is method of actual death (captive bolt vs slit throat) and there is no difference in welfare, TBH my feeling is that it should make no difference to those of us who are only interested in welfare rather than slaughter method. Given the reaction to the word halal on this thread (people seemed to have glossed over the Tesco reply that states stunning is used, and instead continue to be horrified about buying halal, despite there being no welfare implications at all), I can almost see why supermarkets choose not to label it - the public would likely all complain without bothering to do their research as to the welfare implications, demand separate slaughter, if supermarkets respond this dramatically slows the volume of animals slaughtered through abattoirs such as the one I visited, and hey presto, the price of lamb rises and the public complain again!

Having visited a chicken abattoir I can honestly say that I hope anyone bothered by the prospect of eating stunned Halal lamb NEVER eats chicken.


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## CorvusCorax (15 August 2012)

Brilliant post M88, thanks for your insight from the coal face - and I totally agree about the chickens.


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## NoseyPosey (15 August 2012)

Murphy88 said:



			I have seen the process and am happy that the stunning they receive is adequate. Yes, I suppose ideally the meat would be labelled with Halal........
		
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But I thought someone has already stated in this thread that if the animal is stunned first then it's not Halal?


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## Elsiecat (15 August 2012)

NoseyPosey said:



			But I thought someone has already stated in this thread that if the animal is stunned first then it's not Halal?
		
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Correct. Halal isn't Halel if they've been stunned first


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## CorvusCorax (15 August 2012)

So if it is stunned it isn't OK, and if it isn't, it's still not OK. Some people are never happy 
Pity there isn't a local friendly Immam to pop on to HHO and clarify the matter.


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## Elsiecat (15 August 2012)

CaveCanem said:



			So if it is stunned it isn't OK, and if it isn't, it's still not OK. Some people are never happy 

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No I'm not saying either is ok or either is wrong, I'm just agreeing that Islam states that it can't be stunned first


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## Perissa (15 August 2012)

I have no problem with throats being cut as long as the animal has been stunned first, no problem at all.  My understanding of halal (And hands up I could be wrong) is that the animal must be fully conscious when its throat is cut.  It is this that I strongly object to.  I do not want to eat meat slaughtered this way.  

So what is the truth?  Is stunning allowed or not? If it is then why isn't the practice followed for every animal?


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## Murphy88 (15 August 2012)

I think that the Koran states that the animal has to be alive when slaughter takes place, and with electrical stunning the animal is still, technically, alive. I am sure some muslims will still only eat meat that was killed in the traditional Halal method (and Halal butcher's I'm sure will practice as such), however modern Islam has chosen to interpret the wording of the Koran to allow stunning to take place. This is why criticism of Kosher meat has increased recently, because no stunning is allowed at all. It is a couple of years since I have done any in depth research/debates on religious slaughter (when I was visiting the abattoirs in question) however I think this is the basics of it.

And as CC says, it really makes no difference to us! Either way, no one should have an issue eating supermarket meat based on welfare concerns, the only people it effects are Muslims, who presumably will make the decision as to whether or not the meat is sufficiently halal based on personal choice.


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## MerrySherryRider (15 August 2012)

Murphy88 said:



			Haven't read all the posts, so apologies if I am repeating something already said, but just wanted to add another view point to it.

I have been to the sheep abattoir used by Asda for all of their lamb. I was surprised prior to my visit to learn that all animals were slaughtered under halal practice (it would be too difficult to seperate out halal/non-halal carcasses, the volume of animals going through is huge). However, having seen every stage of the slaughter process, I can honestly say I believe there is no greater level of suffering for these animals than with standard slaughter - I stood and watched the animals be stunned and their throats cut, it was quick, painless, and the animals appeared to be in very little distress (and as a vet I think I am relatively well qualified to assess these points.) The holding pens etc are all designed to reduce stress, and there are strict procedures in place to ensure no animal goes through that isn't fit. The sheep toddle into the chute, are stunned and then a trained halal slaughterman cuts their throat immediately. 

I do not agree with any form of religious slaughter that occurs without stunning, however I equally have no problem buying lamb from Tesco/Asda, because I have seen the process and am happy that the stunning they receive is adequate. Yes, I suppose ideally the meat would be labelled with Halal, but given that the only difference is method of actual death (captive bolt vs slit throat) and there is no difference in welfare, TBH my feeling is that it should make no difference to those of us who are only interested in welfare rather than slaughter method. Given the reaction to the word halal on this thread* (people seemed to have glossed over the Tesco reply that states stunning is used, and instead continue to be horrified about buying halal, despite there being no welfare implications at all),* I can almost see why supermarkets choose not to label it - the public would likely all complain without bothering to do their research as to the welfare implications, demand separate slaughter, if supermarkets respond this dramatically slows the volume of animals slaughtered through abattoirs such as the one I visited, and hey presto, the price of lamb rises and the public complain again!

Having visited a chicken abattoir I can honestly say that I hope anyone bothered by the prospect of eating stunned Halal lamb NEVER eats chicken.
		
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Actually, this is not quite so. Apparently Asda and Tesco buy meat from different sources in the UK and not all of it is pre stunned. Additionally, most of the lamb in the supermarkets is New Zealand and most of that is not stunned.

 You seem to have quite a different take compared to the RSPCA inspectors, CIWF, FAWC, and the EU Scientific Panel on Animal Health and Welfare (AHAW) have to say about current slaughter legislation.

Post stunning is not acceptable and neither is using suppliers who do not pre stun, (despite what they claim.)
Also, as only certain parts of the animal are used for Kosher meat, the remaining parts of the carcass will be used for the general market.


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## honeymum (15 August 2012)

Perissa said:



			I have no problem with throats being cut as long as the animal has been stunned first, no problem at all.  My understanding of halal (And hands up I could be wrong) is that the animal must be fully conscious when its throat is cut.  It is this that I strongly object to.  I do not want to eat meat slaughtered this way.  

So what is the truth?  Is stunning allowed or not? If it is then why isn't the practice followed for every animal?
		
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My boss is a devout Muslim and I have checked with her Halal butcher, apparently the animal has to be alive and well when it is slaughtered and the fact that they are stunned means that although alive they are not well so must not be stunned before slaughter. He even offered to let me see him slaughter some chickens (insert vomiting smiley, no thanks!). 

I know many Muslims and none of them will buy from supermarkets due to the fact the animal is usually stunned first.


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## Elsiecat (15 August 2012)

honeymum said:



			I know many Muslims and none of them will buy from supermarkets due to the fact the animal is usually stunned first.
		
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So in that case why don't supermarkets just offer meat slaughtered but without the prayers  Just seems a bit daft if they don't eat from the supermarkets anyway..


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## honeymum (15 August 2012)

elsiecat said:



			So in that case why don't supermarkets just offer meat slaughtered but without the prayers  Just seems a bit daft if they don't eat from the supermarkets anyway..
		
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I don't know, I find it a bit strange. Where I live in Bucks there are about 10 Halal butchers within a 3 mile radius but only 1 normal one. I'm sure a lot of people must buy it from the supermarkets, otherwise they wouldn't sell it. I'll have to peer into some trollies tomorrow and be nosy


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## YorksG (15 August 2012)

Some Imams will interprate the teaching as allowing stunning, some will not.
I will not eat either hallal or kosher meat, if I am aware of it being so.
I agree that the argument here is about labeling the meant according to the supermarkets view of what type of slaughter it was. I see no value in large organisations providing only halal meat, the arguement that the majority can choose to eat non meat options is surely more viable for the minority. If you require a method of slaughter which the majority do not, then eat the veggie option, rather than the majority having a method imposed on them. With regard to the poster who pointed out that it is not that many years since all animals were slaughtered without pre-stunning, that is true, as is the fact that children went to school part time at the age of ten and went to work for the other half of their week. This was the case for my Grandfather, I for one am glad that that has changed, along with methods of slaughter.


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## NoseyPosey (16 August 2012)

YorksG said:



			If you require a method of slaughter which the majority do not, then eat the veggie option, rather than the majority having a method imposed on them.
		
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Or simply use a Halal butcher where you know exactly what you're getting, as opposed to a supermarket where you don't. As I've already mentioned - do devout Muslims REALLY go to Tesco to buy meat which isn't labelled as being Halal? I'll wager not.


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## Elsiecat (16 August 2012)

YorksG said:



			the arguement that the majority can choose to eat non meat options is surely more viable for the minority. If you require a method of slaughter which the majority do not, then eat the veggie option, rather than the majority having a method imposed
		
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EXACTLY. Why would you pander to the needs of the 4% (who apparantly tend to go to halal butches anyway) instead of the needs of the 96%. It makes no sense  
(Before anyone gets 'offended' by this - I used to work in an Indian Restaurant, was good friends with all the staff, we spoke about religion and that lead on to Halal etc. and I expressed my views, and they all said they understood where I was coming from about the minority being catered for before the majority. I have had Indian food, which IS halal, but I've knowingly done so. Its a different ball game)


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## Vicstress (16 August 2012)

Pretty much all Nz lamb Izmir halal. There was a massive uprising re. Stunned animals but tests proved that the animal was not dead when stunned, thus appeasing Muslim groups. 

The animals are killed by one at a time rather than in a lot of non halal establishments where the animal can see the fate of his mate in front. The animal dies immediately as the throat must be completely severed to satisfy halal meat processes.

Block killing is now banned in this country which, in my view was inhumane. Id rather eat halal anyday.

Might be worth googling some videos so people actually know what they're taking about rather than spouting daily mail tosh.


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## Vicstress (16 August 2012)

Yorks you maybe right about not all groups being satisfied with stunning despite the tests. Im off do more research!


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## Molly'sMama (23 August 2012)

UGH this bothers me.

DO you _*really*_ think your 'Christian' or 'secular' meat is killed in a kinder way? Really? 

And all of theses shops.. all but one sell no halal chicken or beef,its only lamb,and if you're really that fluffy,in my opinion,why are you eating a baby sheep?

Sorry.All this aggressiveness without insight upsets me.


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## MerrySherryRider (24 August 2012)

Molly'sMama said:



			UGH this bothers me.

DO you _*really*_ think your 'Christian' or 'secular' meat is killed in a kinder way? Really? 

And all of theses shops.. all but one sell no halal chicken or beef,its only lamb,and if you're really that fluffy,in my opinion,why are you eating a baby sheep?

Sorry.All this aggressiveness without insight upsets me.
		
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Fluffy or compassionate ? I doubt that scientific reports from the European Food Safety Authority and UK Farm Animal Welfare Council regarding religious slaughter are based on fluffiness or aggression.
 Similarly, I doubt it was  fluffiness that improved conditions for battery hens and ended the use of narrow veal crates. 
Unless we question inhumane practices in food production, the small victories in improving conditions for farm animals will never be won.
 No one wishes to prevent those whose religious beliefs require them to eat religiously slaughtered meat, but, why do the general population do not have an ethical choice ? Why the secrecy and avoidance of labelling ?
 I won't call myself particularly fluffy being able to fillet a fish and (with OH's guidance ), skin a rabbit.
 Being a meat eater does not preclude me from caring about how it got to my plate.


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## case895 (28 August 2012)

Supermarkets, airlines, hotels, restaurants, etc. have been selling unbadged halal meat for donkeys years. I thought it was common knowledge...


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## fburton (2 September 2012)

Perissa said:



			I am sat here deeply saddened and a little upset that the majority of people I work with show so little compassion towards how their meat is slaughtered.
		
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I am more concerned about the quality of the animals life than the details of how they were slaughtered. After all, life goes on a lot longer than death so any suffering is necessarily much more prolonged. I am of course concerned about slaughter too. Ideally the animal would not know anything about it and feel no pain at all. However, let's face it, it is going to be unpleasant whichever way it is done and so the important thing for me is that it is over quickly.

People who buy food should have access to full information about what they are buying, ideally. I want to be sure that I am not inadvertently supporting factory farming. Unfortunately, that information is not readily available for processed foods or, indeed, restaurant food.


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## fburton (2 September 2012)

elsiecat said:



			So in that case why don't supermarkets just offer meat slaughtered but without the prayers  Just seems a bit daft if they don't eat from the supermarkets anyway..
		
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What difference does prayers make?


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## Elsiecat (2 September 2012)

fburton said:



			What difference does prayers make?
		
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Well, what difference does it make to Muslims who eat it? (Who apparantly don't tend to buy meat from supermarkets anyway) 

Exactly the same difference as it does to me.

Why say Islamic prayers for meat that isn't going to Islamic followers? Seems rather pointless and a waste of time..


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## fburton (2 September 2012)

Ok, I see your point.


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