# Advice Please!



## *Equestrian Author* (22 June 2018)

Hi Everyone  

This is _very _lengthy-please bare with me! 

On the livery yard I keep my horses at,it's always been a rule that no entire stallions or colts are allowed. I've been there 9 years; wasn't until around 2 years ago this unbroken rule was,effectively,broken. 
However,the colt was kept in or turned out in a paddock well away from any other horses=situation manageable. 
Last summer,owner of said colt decided to take on a third pony _(sold a gorgeous mare he claimed he couldn't afford to keep winter 2016-already had the gelded colt & a mare he apparently hand-reared/supposedly failed to breed from)_, claiming the pony was intended for his grandson-we've never seen him bring any relatives to the yard. 
Having an entire 18 month old colt on the yard was disconcerting given my family's older mare has numerous health issues and my own 6 year old mare has skin/conformation issues that _(aside my view that indiscriminate breeding is a huge issue that I'd never knowingly add to)_ putting her in foal would be not only foolish,but hazardous. We were assured he'd be kept well away from all mares & told we had nothing to worry about. 

When we went to the winter fields one afternoon,we noticed the colt had been turned out one field over from ours-_without warning_. We definitely weren't happy about that! Once again,we're reassured he couldn't get to our mares. 
Days later,I went to catch my horses,only to find this colt had escaped & gotten in with the gentleman's mare-mounting her. This was the field directly next to ours-separated by awful fencing. I rushed all of mine in & let the yard manager know straight away _(yard manager is not the yard owner-though the yard owner,who ultimately makes decisions about what horses are brought onto the yard,dislikes being involved in anything to do with the yard if possible)_. Nothing was done about it,so kept our mares in. 
When Mum spoke to the gentleman who owned those ponies the next day _(I was in work so not privy to the conversation)_,he claimed he wasn't bothered if his mare was in foal. Shocked at this attitude,we approached the yard manager again who basically said they're his ponies and weren't in our herd,so weren't our concern.

Month or so later,I was doing a routine fence-walk _(& shoe-search courtesy of my naughty pony!)_,noticed the fence bordering our winter field & the gentleman's field had been re-done. Yard manager & yard owner don't fence-walk & don't put up fresh fencing unless fence is damaged. I assumed this was a refresh to fencing I'd requested the yard manager arrange months previously; since the colt was one field over & all seemed quiet,I didn't panic. After this,my family & I started to notice some people on the yard suddenly became a bit strange around us. 
We're a cheerful family who get along with everyone & will help whenever needed. We love our horses,they are our lives-to the extent we travel an hour-round trip to & from the stables at least once _(though often twice)_ every day; as a family we scrimp & save to give our horses the best life possible. My husband & I can't afford our own house because we put everything into keeping our horses happy & healthy. We couldn't understand why a few people,including the yard manager _(who admittedly isn't approachable most of the time anyway)_,stopped chatting to us. 

When there was a bit of snow winter 2017,the gentleman's ponies escaped into our herd's summer field. Ours weren't in there so it wasn't a major issue. He took a few days to fix the fencing,though we were once again assured it would all be sorted & part of the field adjacent to his would be sectioned off, to eliminate colt contact, before moving our mares to the summer field come March. Next time there was icy conditions, my family had no choice but to turn our horses out into their summer field on the stable yard-only to find the gentleman's ponies escaped into our summer field & were galloping around with ours _(the colt was in, thankfully)_. The fence was supposedly fixed overnight,though due to my family being unable to get to the yard until late because of the snow,the yard manager turned our horses out in the field-they'd been brought back in by the time my family got there.     

One day in February this year, Mum & I were looking at my mare concerned that her stomach appeared larger than normal for that time of year _(grazing is always sparse by this time,though she was only getting one sensibly-sized feed a day along with light exercise,to avoid risk of her entering spring overweight; usually maintains ideal weight)_. She's a good doer,but not 'that' much of a good doer. Having rescued her as a yearling in a sorry state,I know my girl very well & her shape wasn't normal. Despite this,we discussed having the vet check her over when they were due to do her vaccinations a week or so later,since she was otherwise happy & healthy. Her potentially being in foal didn't enter our minds, until a person from the yard shouted in front of everyone who was at the yard at the time _(out of character for a usually quiet person)_,that my gelding was mounting my mare. 
I ran up to the field to check,only to find the herd totally chilled & grazing peacefully. I'd put a brand new rug on my mare 20 minutes before; field was muddy yet there were no mud/hoof marks on her rug. 

Concerned that despite being on a strict diet whilst still being in light work _(I had surgery so my sister was left to work my mare when she had time-otherwise she'd have had a better exercise regime)_, my mare was gaining weight on her stomach alone _(when gaining weight she'd usually gain all over) _,I requested the vet check her again but this time do an actual pregnancy test instead of just have a look at her overall image. Vet did a rectal examination,claimed my mare was 'very tight' but that she couldn't feel anything. Explained she'd checked a mare the day before whose foal could've 'shaken hands' with her. Said it was highly unlikely my mare was in foal & it was safe to put her into full work _(should my health have allowed that)_. The vet also said how impressed she was that we'd gotten our mare checked,despite the risk being minimal. I don't know if it's worth mentioning,but the vet was tiny & didn't 'route around' for too long. I don't doubt her expertise,but being of small stature myself,I'm aware one's size can impede certain activities,through no fault of one's own-_would that make a difference? _

Work was increased _(admittedly not as much as I'd like)_ & my mare's diet cut down _(a handful of hi-fi lite with much-needed joint & skin supplements)_. 
We don't cause trouble. Since few on the yard seemed to be bothering with us at the time, we didn't think it worth causing any hassle by mentioning we had our mare pregnancy tested. 
However,yard manager approached Mum the next day _(when I wasn't at there)_ to ask why the vet was out. My Mum explained & yard manager got very defensive,claiming the colt was kept well away from our mares & there was no risk he'd gotten over or through the fence to my mare. Strange,since Mum didn't suggest anything; we just wanted to rule out that as an issue. 
Funnily enough,news of my mare not being in foal must've spread; all of a sudden people on the yard were being nice to us again. The gentleman got his colt gelded shortly after the vet checked my mare. 

It's nearly July & my mare_ still _hasn't been in season. I really want to get her blood tested or ultrasound scanned,but my family aren't sure it's worth the cost or stressing my mare out-since likelihood of her being in foal is minimal. She's always been cuddly,though just lately she's become 'clingy'. I'm not complaining as she's my girl & it's lush to have a close bond with her; she's always been all for my husband before now. But she's wanting to stay in a lot more & has shown absolutely no sign of being in season all year; whereas our older mare seems to have been mounted by a gelding who mounted my mare last September when he was first turned out. My mare's usually a tart when in season & can get a bit touchy-absolutely no sign of such behaviour whatsoever,all year. 

I've checked her udders; there's slight swelling around them-which I did put down to her fly bites that went down after cleansing & putting cream on. Though there's absolutely no sign of the teats themselves being dropped down,swollen,or laden with milk. It goes without saying that she's never,ever had a foal & wasn't destined to either. 
_I just don't know what to do_. If there's any risk she's in foal,I hate the thought of causing her or any potential foal harm by leaving her rugged & turning her out with a mixed herd containing geldings. 
However,given that risk is minimal & the vet already stated it's highly unlikely she's in foal,I cannot justify to my husband that getting her checked again is worth the cost & stress-money is tight. I've tried to make the point that if she's in foal, we'd need to make arrangements _(not to mention the monetary implications)_ as her stable is way too small for two & she couldn't be turned out with the herd. We'd need provisions in case anything went wrong too. 
If she isn't in foal,I'm terrified she has an ovary problem. As much as I know horses do mature & some mares aren't so dramatic when in season,I can't help feeling it isn't normal for her not to be her usual feisty self,especially how she gets when in season. I'll try to include photos of her basic shape. 

Silly question; _what definite signs are there other than movement/udders please? _

If you made it through,please reward yourself with a chocolate biscuit & cup of tea  

Many thanks in advance for any advice!


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## *Equestrian Author* (23 June 2018)

Sorry, can't seem to get any photos to add into this post!


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## Pearlsasinger (23 June 2018)

You need to ask a vet to examine her.  Then, I would find a better livery yard and move.


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## DD (23 June 2018)

move and tell the yard owner why you are moving


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## *Equestrian Author* (25 June 2018)

Vet is visiting on Friday  

There's a number of reasons I'm unable to move yards; first being the horses are so happy there, second being the fact the yard owner is great friends with my parents, third being the fact the horses are allowed out 24/7 all year around if needs be (great for their sanity, especially in winter - though obviously we keep them in if it's too wet, too cold, or they feel like staying in), and lastly, my sister, parents and I have 4 horses between us - all of whom are hard work and not easily managed without the freedom we have with turnout etc. We often have to stay at the yard late or even arrive late after getting stuck in work etc. Not many yards are happy with that. Anyways, thanks for reading, and thank you your replies


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## JJS (26 June 2018)

You might want to join The Foaling Hub on Facebook. You'll find lots of knowledge people who can advise you on there, and provided you can upload photos, you should be able to get a general consensus regarding her shape, to either put your mind at rest or give you extra time to prepare whilst you wait for Friday to come around.


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## *Equestrian Author* (26 June 2018)

Hi JJS  That is super helpful, thank you ever so much! I'll pop on there now - thanks again


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## *Equestrian Author* (29 June 2018)

Hi Everyone 

In case anyone is interested, the vet who visited today didn't have any equipment due to a mistake the receptionist made by writing that my mare was suffering weight loss  But has suggested I get my mare booked in to have an ultrasound scan ASAP. He said there's a risk she's in foal, though since nobody has owned up or mentioned the colt breaking in with her, its more than likely a cyst on her ovary that's affecting her not coming into season since September. Which means a heck of a lot of stress and worry, since there's a chance she may need surgery to remove her ovaries if it is a cyst 

I'm now hoping with all my heart she's in foal, despite it being full of risk, as she is so happy within herself I'd dread her going through the stresses of surgery. Obviously we will do whatever she needs us to for her; I'm under so much stress at the moment and worrying about my girl really isn't helping - I'm hoping and praying she's ok


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## alainax (29 June 2018)

Sorry I can&#8217;t help, but read every word (you live up to your name!) and hope everything turns out well.


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## TheMule (30 June 2018)

At this stage the vet just needs to stick a hand in to detect pregnancy, an Ultrasound is unecessary and probably unhelpful. If your vet isn't competent enough to do that I'd look for a different vet. It's very imprortant you find out asap


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## *Equestrian Author* (30 June 2018)

Thank you alainax 

Thank you TheMule - I suggested he do that, since she hadn't been palpated since March. But he gave a long explanation as to why he'd rather ultrasound scan her, though as he's not from the area and was just doing a shift to cover another vet, he couldn't arrange anything and didn't have any equipment -.- Funnily enough, I went to school with said vet and fell out over an equine welfare issue around 7 years ago, so I did feel confident enough to stick up for my mare and tried to get as much information as possible; I'm not sure he wanted to take on the responsibility of dealing with the situation, though he did keep saying rather loudly as I was leading my mare across the yard to trot her up "So when was she mounted? How far along in foal is she?" Talk about feeling the need to slap one's palm to one's face - the yard manager looked seriously annoyed. I'm not one to cause trouble, and if she's not in foal that's exactly what might happen thanks to the lack of subtly of that vet. I'm phoning the vet surgery first thing Monday morning, I'll refuse to pay for the pointless visit and request they get out to see my girl ASAP.


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## Red-1 (30 June 2018)

I agree with not paying for the visit to examine the mare for possibly being in foal if they did not bring the equipment to do the job. Because of your distrust of the first lot of visits I would now ask for a second opinion from a different practice. You will probably have one that is a fertility specialist. 

I think we can all guess that she was mounted. It does sound like she may be in foal. By using a different vet then you are not caught up with the original practice being defensive over the previous visits. If, however, a fertility specialist says she is not, they will also have the necessary techniques/equipment to diagnose a cyst on the ovary. 

Either way, a different practice will put your mind at rest one way or another. 

I personally would move yard too, as the colt getting in with the mare is regrettable, but not telling you is unforgiveable. It is an awful atmosphere, and trust has been lost between you and them.


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## Clodagh (30 June 2018)

TheMule said:



			At this stage the vet just needs to stick a hand in to detect pregnancy, an Ultrasound is unecessary and probably unhelpful. If your vet isn't competent enough to do that I'd look for a different vet. It's very imprortant you find out asap
		
Click to expand...

I agree with this - find a repro vet and get him to shove a hand in.


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## *Equestrian Author* (30 June 2018)

Thank you Red-1  At the moment, moving isn't an option unfortunately - there are a number of reasons :/ If she is in foal though, things will change for certain and I'll not have any choice but to move, as two of the four stables big enough for a mare and foal are used by the yard manager - can't see that changing. It is awful, not being able to trust people; especially when I'm the sort of person who believes everyone has the capacity to be a good person, unless they prove otherwise :/
I will have to try finding another decent vet practice locally, but it won't be easy - it is a shame, as the vet practice we've been with since they opened have usually been good with our other horses. I'll make sure the vet practice I get a second opinion from specialise in fertility though!

I'll keep you all updated - thank you again for your support and advice


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## kimberleigh (10 July 2018)

Just read through this...any updates??

My little welsh a mare who I bought with foal at foot turned out to be in foal again! I had vet out to see her, who said she was too dinky to do an internal and so would take bloods...but if she was pregnant then Id have a good few weeks at least to prepare - she had the foal that same night!! Vet waived fees for visit and blood test!


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## *Equestrian Author* (10 July 2018)

Hi Everyone 

I've been trying to reply with an update since Friday, though for some reason H&H seemed to have been playing up...

So, an experienced Vet came out and ultrasound scanned my mare. 
He said she isn't in foal, and her ovaries are barely 3cms when they should be 5cms. He couldn't see the left ovary properly, despite routing around. However, he did find a cyst on her right ovary; which would explain the lack of seasons and changed behaviour etc. He said we have to monitor it regularly to ensure it doesn't grow, as that might indicate it's cancerous. Though he did say tumours usually appear larger and darker on the screen. He offered medication to encourage her to come back into season; though upon further discussion when I informed him I never actually intend to breed from her, given her health issues/confirmation/my views on indiscriminate breeding etc, I questioned whether it was necessary for her health to experience coming into season. To which he said no, it wouldn't affect her health whatsoever if she didn't come into season - which is a bonus as she can be a nightmare when she's in season!  

So for now I've got to increase her exercise, maintain the diet she's on, and keep an eye out for any further changes in her health, behaviour, appearance etc. If there are any changes I have to get the vet back out immediately to check her again.

Looks like I'll not have a surprise foal after all - which is sad in a way, since I had made arrangements in case she were in foal; plus, should the colt have gotten to her, I have no proof and so that potentially dishonest bunch got away with it :/ 

I am disheartened that she has a cyst on her ovary, since if something goes wrong there's a chance she'd need surgery. Likewise, I'm really worried about the risk of her getting cancer  However, for now, the news is better than it could've been - and at least she doesn't have to live life on medication; which would've been devastating for a mare who is only 6 years old. 

Anyways, thank you all so very much for your advice, and thanks to those of you who have shared your experiences! 
I wish you all well with your mares and foals - please give them an extra cwtch from me


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