# Should you go barefoot or stay shod?



## cptrayes (1 October 2010)

I think there has finally been a big breakthrough in the barefoot/shoeing debate with a major horse monthly publishing an article that for the first time does not quote vets and/or farriers saying that barefoot is OK if you horse doesn't do much roadwork. 

But the article makes me concerned for a lot of shod-horse owners out there because it does strongly imply that all horse owners could take off their horse's shoes and this simply isn't true. While I personally believe that  most horses are capable, eventually, of a full workload with bare feet, there are many horse/owner/livery yard combinations where it won't work. 

So while I am VERY against shoes where horses simply don't need them, (and there are thousands of horses in this country being shod when they don't need them), I'm also very against people who need their horse shod being made to feel guilty if they can't "do" the barefoot thing. So here are some pointers as to when you SHOULD have shoes on your horse.

I hope this will start a sensible debate with other barefoot devotees like me adding their advice, and we can show that we are not the mad ourwayistheonlyway nutters that many people want to think we are.

STUDS

If you are convinced you need studs you will need to shoe. There are boots that take studs but they are not legal for BE or BD. Many of us found that studs were unnecessary for jumping even up to Advanced Eventing but you will most likely lose marks on a slick dry grass dressage arena on hard ground without them. 

GRASS

There is a very, very high proportion of barefoot horses who will feel stones in the spring summer and early autumn. This is actually very low grade laminitis. In most of those horses it can be controlled by removing them from grazing when grass sugars are high, late morning to early evening. In a smaller, but still significant, proportion a much greater restriction must be placed on sugar in grass and food.

If you simply can't restrict your horse's grazing like that, and you can't or don't want to use boots, or if you simply don't believe that your horse should have his grazing restricted, then you will need to shoe. 

WORK

Many horses will cope with peaks and troughs of work barefoot, but some will not. So if you want to  hack for four hours on Saturday, for example, your horse might not keep its foot condition well enough if he only pootles in an arena during the dark winter evenings. If so, you'll need to boot or shoe. Stony tracks and roads are no reason not to go barefoot, they cope brilliantly. But not unless they keep their conditioning, and some horses need more regular exposure than others to do that.

MINERALS

Mineral imbalances can be a nightmare. My own grazing, for example, is very high in manganese and iron. Until we knew that, my friends and I had trouble with abscesses and with insulin/laminitic issues. So we needed to investigate and found that copper and zinc are prevented from being taken up by manganese and iron. And seaweed supplementation, high in iron, was a VERY bad idea! Once we got that right by supplementing copper and zinc, abscesses stopped, cracks healed and our horses could tolerate more exposure to grass as well (copper has a role in regulating insulin, which is vital to digesting sugar). There are people on this forum and others who will help with this, but if your horse isn't "right" barefoot, and you can't find out what his imbalance is, or don't want to, you will need to shoe.

WET

Standing in a wet field all winter softens feet and some horses will not be able to cope barefoot unless they have a period each day in the dry. Unfortunately, some will also not grow foot fast enough if they stand still for more than half the hours in a day, and stabling overnight is not the best environment for them. If your horse is one of these, and you can't provide "dry turnout" (mine are in a barn, for example, others have partially covered and/or very well draining track systems) then you will need to shoe.

UNSUPPORTIVE FARRIER/VET/LIVERY

It can be very stressful to go against your farrier and/or vet in taking your horse barefoot. (Unfortunately, although there are more barefoot-aware farriers and vets every day, there are still plenty of farriers and vets telling owners that their horse won't manage when it is not true, as mine and many other barefoot horses demonstrate). Some livery yards can also be extremely hostile if your horse is at all footsore in the early days. If you can't face this, you'll need to shoe.

TRANSITION IS TOO PAINFUL

There are some horses which really struggle when the shoes first come off, and in rare cases this can last months. Those horses shouldn't be exposed to surfaces that they can't manage without protection, which can, to be honest, be a heck of a fuss and bother (booting up just to walk to the field, for example). If your horse is one of those and you can't cotton-wool him the way he would need, you'll have to leave the shoes on. 

(Other than this transitioning issue, current foot quality has no bearing WHATSOEVER on whether a horse will work happily barefoot. The removal of the shoes, with a correct diet and work, improves foot quality beyond recognition within four months, and these are some of the very horses that will benefit most.)


I hope this helps those of you who are thinking about barefoot. Hopefully other people will add their advice too.


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## amandap (1 October 2010)

I haven't read the article concerned but I wanted to say what a great and balanced post this seems.

I was reading this article the other day from a US Barefoot Trimmer which is really directed to US Trimmers but I think is an interesting read for all. It seems US is further along this road than here in UK.
http://www.hoofrehab.com/21stCenturyFarrier.html


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## tommy30 (1 October 2010)

Some very good information there. I wouldnt disagree with any of it, although I might add that some horses require shoes to help with certain injuries, conformational faults and pathologies. 

Your last bit about the current condition of feet not affecting things is spot on. I was asked to shoe a horse two weeks ago for the first time, and simply said no. The feet had disintergrated due to a poor job being done for months, and a period of going barefoot would do them the world of good.


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## Onyxia (1 October 2010)

I look at it the same a breast feedin-if you can please do but don't stress or worry bout needing the alternative 
Shoes are not evil,but as with anything if they do not serve a purpose whats the point of them? 

Livery yards are a nightmare for peer pressure-even the most normal owners will at some point feel the need to do what the rest of the group does and we really need to start looking at what is right for this horse in this situation,not what is done on the yard you are at(same with worming,but thats clearly another rant for another day  ).


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## Honey08 (1 October 2010)

Very interesting thread.  Answers a lot of questions I had on my thread.  Thanks.

Intersting point re sensitivity in feet and laminitus.  I came to that conclusion a year ago with my mare, who started feeling very stoney tracks, and stopped a couple of times jumping, when she never normally refuses anything (except dressage!).  At first I put it down to our farrier at that time, who left the feet much too long, but gradually came to the conclusion that it was mild laminitus.  This was in a fit horse that was eventing, so not over weight, and not a typical case at all.  I think the culprit was rich haylage and the fact that the horse is a good doer that can't have heating food - gets heat bumps from sugarbeet too.


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## amandap (1 October 2010)

Yunalesca said:



			Livery yards are a nightmare for peer pressure-even the most normal owners will at some point feel the need to do what the rest of the group does and we really need to start looking at what is right for this horse in this situation,not what is done on the yard you are at(same with worming,but thats clearly another rant for another day  ).
		
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I'm so lucky to have my lot at home. I also think many (not all of course) livery yards are run in a very strict grazing at certain times only regime and have no facilities or even  the will to accomodate horses that need restricted or no grazing but still need movement. It must be so frustrating to not
to be able to manage a horse as he needs.


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## tallyho! (1 October 2010)

Good post 

It does put it into perspective, there is this perception that when you go barefoot it's like converting to another religion or something when clearly shoes are something that should be viewed as a tool like rugs, saddles, bits etc. They should be in that category.

I think it's also true that most don't need shoes and can transition well as there are lots of good news testimonials out there. It's not as if we drive our horses on cobbled streets and ride from county to county to see the Lord and Lady anymore  it is recreation and competition nowadays so it only seems right to see a shift in management. 

Lots of people have said if it ain't broke etc.. (referring to if it's happy shod then leave it) but if it's got good feet in the first place why force shoes on?


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## soloequestrian (1 October 2010)

tallyho! said:



			clearly shoes are something that should be viewed as a tool like rugs, saddles, bits etc. They should be in that category.
		
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I like this way of thinking.  When I was a teenager, you couldn't really keep finer horses out in the winter because ALL New Zealand rugs let water through.  Now my TB's can live out 24/7 all year round because of their high-tech no-leak rugs.  I think it's the same with boots - there is a functional alternative now even if you can't get the hooves totally rock-crunching through management alone.  Hopefully the more people that use them, the more advanced they will become too.
There does seem to be a huge weight of tradition in the horse industry though - horses are still stabled because it's the done thing, shoes are possibly the same.  
I like the link to the Pete Ramey article too - I wonder if we will catch up with the US at some point?


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## FleabittenT (1 October 2010)

Thank you cptrayes.

I posted a thread this morning because my horse mostly just works on a rubber surface over winter & I am wondering if continued shoeing is necessary.

My main concerns are:

- we are on clay and our grazing gets pretty boggy in winter. She is generally out 10hrs during the day, in at night. I worry how her feet would cope unshod.

- our yard is gravelled, with large chunks of gravel/stone. I worry walking over this every day would make her footsore, especially during the transition period.

- she is a very good doer and we have a lot (a lot!) of grass, even now. Restricting her grazing is difficult, as I also travel with work. I worry about LGL in this respect and not being able to easily restrict her sugar intake.

- I have only ever used one farrier, who I trust implicitly. It would take a lot for me to trust anyone else with her feet.

On the one hand, she is shod & we have no issues - it's the whole ain't broke, don't fix it thing. On the other hand, I really don't want to shoe unneccessarily, in the same way I don't feed/rug/use tack unneccessarily.

A lot to consider. I will talk it through with my farrier next week, I think...


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## CeeBee (1 October 2010)

Excellent post, thank you! It answers just about every question I should be asking, as I am really keen to try Harvey without shoes, due to tripping.
However, he lives out so I can never guarantee a that he would actually stand in a dry area for part of the day (even if I had one). So I guess this means he will have to stay shod?


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## Three (1 October 2010)

Excellent post, thank you.

It also leads me off into an interesting side shoot about abcesses which I will investigate further. We have a high incidence on our yard so I'm now wondering if the grazing plays a part.

Unfortunately YO is not horsey/interested in the grazing/concerned about horses so I'll have to do the leg-work myself on this one!! 

Thanks again for informative, balanced post.


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## LucyPriory (1 October 2010)

CeeBee said:



			Excellent post, thank you! It answers just about every question I should be asking, as I am really keen to try Harvey without shoes, due to tripping.
However, he lives out so I can never guarantee a that he would actually stand in a dry area for part of the day (even if I had one). So I guess this means he will have to stay shod?
		
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Not necessarily.  Lots of horses cope very well - it is far too individual to generalise

The horse is in this post http://barefoothorseblog.blogspot.com/2010/09/deviated-hooves-now-you-see-it-now-you.html

works very hard with lots of road work and gravel and also lives out 24/7.  The horse is a bit susceptible to sugars, but it does just fine.


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## ThePony (1 October 2010)

Really good post!  I think it is important not to feel pressure one way or the other, but to get hold of the facts and make the decision that works for you and your horse. My only prob with shoeing is that a fair few people blindly see it as the only way. 
My mare is barefoot, transition was worry free as she was on a barefoot friendly diet for the previous year and was fortunate to have good feet to start with. It does make management different as she is v sensitive to sugars (shorter striding on the road if we have even a little flush of grass), she doesn't do very well stabled either so I can't just bring her in for half the day. Fortunatly livery yard lets me strip graze her. In an ideal world she would have a concrete and pea gravel area in her field but I can't see that happening until I have my own land!!  
It works for us really well, but I also understand that it isn't for everyone, I would just love people to be open minded enough to consider that there may be a way of keeping horses that isn't exactly the same way as everyone else!


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## Jericho (1 October 2010)

Very interesting and balanced post, thank you! I am in the process of trying my mare barefoot - am learning lots along the way and am keen that it works. However we are both finding it harder than I anticipated - feet that dont grow fast despite spending a lot on supplements and that fact that she is out 24/7 in flat muddy paddocks, not enough work to transition the feet (we come under the hack once or twice a week category!). It has also become obvious that too much grass / sugars seems to be an issue for us, and that she suffers low grade laminitis - something which I probably missed when she was in shoes and has become evident since going barefoot.  This is obviously a good thing that I can see this now and manage accordingly.

I am starting to feel that for us to go barefoot completely and successfully her life wouldnt be as happy as she would have to be seperated from her buddy and standing in her stable / concrete yard for most of the day and this makes life not so good for her. And whilst this is controversial, it would make my life much more difficult - my horses are my hobby and relaxation and of course I love them dearly and want the best for them but I have a young family and busy life outside of horses, a non sympathetic OH and a very limited budget (via my OH) so I will have to make compromises. I am lucky I have a very good and pro barefoot farrier and that my horses are at home but I simply cannot implement a track system in my field other than a very simple track on grass.

My compromise for the moment is to always wear boots on her front feet when I hack but even that comes with its issues - I worry about them rubbing / coming off when we canter etc etc etc so our future success with barefoot is still somewhat hazy but I will keep trying until a point where I feel that both her and my happiness / lifestyle is compromised

Again thank you for your post - the thing I struggle with most is the guilt about thinking about putting her back in front shoes and you have perhaps helped a little with that should I come to that decision.


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## Orangehorse (1 October 2010)

That is an excellent post Caroline.  I saw the article in the magazine, and like you, thought "I hope that people don't just whip off the shoes without doing lots of research first."

I have had mine barefoot but is currently shod, for one of the reasons stated by Caroline, that the horse's work varies a lot and I found that it was turning me neurotic worrying about whether he would cope or not.  In fact he was never, ever sore from being barefoot and I used boots but didn't find them 100% under all circumstances.
But his feet looked so much better when barefoot, and there were other improvements too, so I am looking about having them off again at some point, for good.


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## cptrayes (1 October 2010)

CeeBee said:



			Excellent post, thank you! It answers just about every question I should be asking, as I am really keen to try Harvey without shoes, due to tripping.
However, he lives out so I can never guarantee a that he would actually stand in a dry area for part of the day (even if I had one). So I guess this means he will have to stay shod?
		
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Most horses I have seen who have a dry area in the field, eg a concrete plinth, a road, seem to spend a fair amount of time a day standing on it if the ground is very boggy. He might do fine if you have one. He might do fine if you don't, some horses are fine! Keratex hoof gel can help too, but the feet need to be scrupulously clean and bone dry when it's applied.

To other people above, as well, try it for 3 months this winter. If it doesn't work, shoe again, the foot will still be there 

Though Ceebee, you are likely to see an immediate, and I mean immediate, stopping of Harvey's tripping, and if you do I'll eat my hat if you aren't back on here asking us how to make it work and we'll be glad to help


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## cptrayes (1 October 2010)

Jericho you are a great example. You and your horse may actually need shoes to get the best out of life. Don't feel guilty if you do. Good farriers can keep most horses perfectly happy in shoes for twenty years and more. For the horses that can't cope now at least the secret is out that there are options other than drugs and finally lead injections


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## Serephin (1 October 2010)

my horse does not have the ideal conditions to be barefoot - according to your list above.

He is shod on front, backs taken off 12 weeks ago - I know I am going to need boots on the front when I finally get the nerve to take them off.  He has thin soles and is a good doer chunky cob.

do I have a chance?


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## cptrayes (1 October 2010)

amandap said:



			I haven't read the article concerned but I wanted to say what a great and balanced post this seems.

I was reading this article the other day from a US Barefoot Trimmer which is really directed to US Trimmers but I think is an interesting read for all. It seems US is further along this road than here in UK.
http://www.hoofrehab.com/21stCenturyFarrier.html

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I love the article and I learned to trim from Ramey's Book.( I DON't recommend this folks, there are much better ways to learn nowadays and it should definitely be hands on!!)

BUT there are tons of horses who do the transition without needing boots, so if you read through to the end of the article, don't go rushing out to buy them. One, your horse's feet are likely to change size or shape very quickly (bigger or smaller depending on his feet!). Two, if you do decide that you need them you can get hold of them in days, they are available online and in saddlery shops. Three, they cost around £130 a PAIR and you really don't want to be spending that and find you've got the wrong size or the wrong shape for your horse after a month!


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## davisn (1 October 2010)

Very interesting & balanced post - thank you.

I've been toying with the idea of taking the shoes off my 2 & have done a bit of reading about the subject. I discussed it with my farrier this week, who is very supportive.

I am worried about the sugar in their diet causing a problem as my mare is a bit over weight at the moment & having to wear a grazing muzzle during the day. However as they are kept at home, & we live up a mountain in North Wales so at least they aren't on lush meadow grass, I should be able to manage intake better than I obviously have this year!

During the winter they are in overnight as there isn't much shelter in the fields. I have to feed haylage as the mare coughs on hay. Is that likely to be an issue?

I also need to sort out a better exercise routine as it can be a bit 'all or nothing' at the moment, but now that I have sorted the arena surface that should be easier.

I have agreed with the farrier that we will take the hind shoes off next time he's here (in 6 weeks) as most of the goodness will be out of the grass by then, & I won't be feeding hard feed this winter unless they drop a huge amount of condition (they can afford to loose a bit).

Does this sound sensible? Anything else I should be thinking about?


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## cptrayes (1 October 2010)

Serephin said:



			my horse does not have the ideal conditions to be barefoot - according to your list above.

He is shod on front, backs taken off 12 weeks ago - I know I am going to need boots on the front when I finally get the nerve to take them off.  He has thin soles and is a good doer chunky cob.

do I have a chance?
		
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 YOu should try to improve the thin soles first, do you have in on a good barefoot diet - low sugar (including autumn grass, which peaks as it dies down for the winter), high fibre, maggnesium oxide, good vitamin and mineral balance?

If he's a chunky cob, and fat??, you may need to get him a bit slimmer to get his soles to thicken up if he has insulin issues which many fat horses do. Insulin problems are bad news for solid hard feet.

You have every chance and you will end up with a healthier horse too - bonus!


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## Rollin (1 October 2010)

My mare had her shoes taken off when she went away to stud and was very foot sore when she come home.  She has plastic shoes on with a foal at foot and is better for being shod.

My Shagya brood mare, who went to the same stud, has never been shod and copes very well.   There are lots of barefoot horses in this area but I think it is for reason of cost.  I lady who rides western is forced to put boots on when she hacks out as her horse cannot cope with stoney ground.


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## peaceandquiet1 (1 October 2010)

I think it depends on the horse. A compromise is to leave the back shoes off and only shoe in front. I have four ponies, three with front shoes, no back shoes, and two horses, one fully shod and one front shoes only. If I left his shoes off he would get abcessess. I am married to a brilliant farrier who shoes according to need. If the horse is sound without shoes-great. If it is even a little footsore then I don't think it is right to deny the feet that protection. It just depends on the individual situation.


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## Moggy in Manolos (1 October 2010)

Brilliant post, very balanced indeed.

I totally beleive there are many horses out there who are shod who do not need it, some do on the other hand. My mare has front shoes only, she has needed alot of remedial farriery due to rotation and related foot deformities on the fronts.
Maybe one day we could remove the front shoes also but we have come a long way from her feet being totally ruined, will just have to see how she gets on as her external foot structure has made a truly miraculous recovery from what it was 
Top post though


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## cptrayes (1 October 2010)

davisn said:



			Very interesting & balanced post - thank you.

I've been toying with the idea of taking the shoes off my 2 & have done a bit of reading about the subject. I discussed it with my farrier this week, who is very supportive.

I am worried about the sugar in their diet causing a problem as my mare is a bit over weight at the moment & having to wear a grazing muzzle during the day. However as they are kept at home, & we live up a mountain in North Wales so at least they aren't on lush meadow grass, I should be able to manage intake better than I obviously have this year!

During the winter they are in overnight as there isn't much shelter in the fields. I have to feed haylage as the mare coughs on hay. Is that likely to be an issue?

I also need to sort out a better exercise routine as it can be a bit 'all or nothing' at the moment, but now that I have sorted the arena surface that should be easier.

I have agreed with the farrier that we will take the hind shoes off next time he's here (in 6 weeks) as most of the goodness will be out of the grass by then, & I won't be feeding hard feed this winter unless they drop a huge amount of condition (they can afford to loose a bit).

Does this sound sensible? Anything else I should be thinking about?
		
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I feed (lowland ryegrass, though not heavily fertilized or terribly rich) haylage and I've never had a problem with it. Do you make your own, at height, late cut, because if so that would be brilliant. I'm at height too, in the Peaks and I have kept the sheep off my land for the last two years to let it go rough. I'm sure I've had an easier time this year, though it's difficult to tell when I changed the copper supplementation too. 

I would recommend supplementing with 25g a day of magnesium oxide (cheapest as Calmag from an agricultural merchant). We aren't sure why it works, but it does. (The old methods were to feed magnesium sulphate (epsom salts) once a week, and two give a big whack to any laminitic horse, so there's something in magnesium that does some good!) 

Fat can be an issue, it depends on the horse, but in general it's like humans. The fatter they are the worse they are at regulating insulin and sugar digestion. Your mare will soon let you know if it's an issue, she'll stay footie on stones.

You're on the right lines. Good luck!


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## davisn (2 October 2010)

Thank you so much for your advice.

We limed our fields last autumn & fertilized this spring as nothing had been done to the ground for at least 20 years & the grass just didn't grow much at all last year (our first year here). We also have sheep & cattle so needed some grass, but we have ended up with a bit too much this year, hence the fat mare I think.

We don't make our own haylage, although who knows, maybe if we have too much grass again next year we'll look into it. I get my haylage from a supplier who is less than 10 miles away, but he is at sea level. He has done a late cut on an old field which hasn't been touched for a couple of years (although ragwort free). I thought this would be worth a try as it should be less 'rich'. 

My mare seemed to come out of winter better than she went in, she has a grass belly & a slightly rounded bum, but no crested neck or fat pockets over the withers. So I am making a few changes. I will hold off rugging & bringing in overnight for as long as possible, I won't be giving hard feeds, haylage will be regulated rather than ad lib & exercise will be increased. If I need to give a magnesium supplement I guess I'll give a couple of handfuls of chaff, they'll eat it plain if I sprinkle a little dried mint & water on it!


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## PapaFrita (2 October 2010)

I had mine barefoot in the UK and tried again when PF had the foal but it just didn't work for her this time round.


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## Doncella (2 October 2010)

My boy had his shoes off 8 weeks ago following on from self removal of front shoes due to a cranial twist so he is barefoot and rehabbing in hand in the arena over poles.
For 10 days, he's 7/8tb coming in accross the yard he was very sore, now he trots soundly in hand down the concrete yard and can walk boldly over gravel and rocks landing heel first and in good balance.
His diet is as it always has been and reads almost barefoot diet textbook before I even knew there was a barefoot diet.
His mum is 20 she is in foal and has lived out 24/7 for 5 years.  She is on 2 acres of untopped old ley with a good mixture of coarse plants such as nettles, thistles, cow parsley etc.  There is an underground stream which feeds the artisean well but the top of the field which looks out to sea is dry.  This is where she likes to stand
6 years ago thanks to the c$$p yard she was on she had stress induced laminitis.  I moved her to this field immediately and she has been fine ever since.  My farrier can only get out occasionally because it is difficult access but every time he sees her he comments on her beautiful feet and doesn't get mad with me when access is really bad  and I trim her feet by taking her for a trot up the lane.


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## DannyBoysGrace (2 October 2011)

My pony is out 24/7 he had never been shod until we got a riding teacher, he was fine unshod and unstabled even in a boggy field! Take it into account that he's a connemara.  Our instructor told us to shoe him, we did, now his hooves aren't as strong, they don't crack but when he looses a shoe his feet get really sore and they never used too. 
So I think it really depends on the horse/pony and their conditions, what they're working on and the strength of their hooves.


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## Marley&Me (2 October 2011)

Excellent balanced post.

My 6 year old has been Barefoot for the past 9 months after previously being shod.

I absolutely love it. And his feet have changed beyond recognition and he has lost 2 inches in height from being de-shod...which is funny.

Of all the benefits the one I love most is the fact that his feet tell me how to manage him as an individual and what is wrong much much earlier than if he were shod.  I can listen to him and change his management almost week by week as to what suits him best depending on work and weather. 

There is no limit to the work I want to do with him...in fact the more the merrier.  So much so I have even considered driving him to keep his feet worn!

I feel I can meet his needs better and he is much much cheaper to keep than if he was.  I even have him on grass livery....and an understanding yard manager allows me use of a virtually bald paddock, and good grass for me to chop and change him as needed. He is fed a handful of soaked speedibeet a day with calmag, pink powder and charcoal in it, most days....though not every day if I need someone to check him and I cant get up.  He does lots of walking on stoney tracks and then faster work on soft surfaces, like the menage or a grassy field.  I find regular lunging about twice a week, on sand, brilliant for maintaining a steady metabolism and muscle tone across his back (which we have had issues with in the past).  

He has a trim roughly every 6 weeks at the mo. This is because I have HMS whcih makes my joints unstable and so trimming him myself would be really hard.  I am hoping to get to the point of being able to tidy him up or roll the edges one day, but right now need my trimmer.

My costs are under £150 per month which is fab!  Might go up in the winter if I need to add hay.


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## RolyPolyPony (2 October 2011)

cptrayes said:



			I think there has finally been a big breakthrough in the barefoot/shoeing debate with a major horse monthly publishing an article that for the first time does not quote vets and/or farriers saying that barefoot is OK if you horse doesn't do much roadwork. 

But the article makes me concerned for a lot of shod-horse owners out there because it does strongly imply that all horse owners could take off their horse's shoes and this simply isn't true. While I personally believe that  most horses are capable, eventually, of a full workload with bare feet, there are many horse/owner/livery yard combinations where it won't work. 

So while I am VERY against shoes where horses simply don't need them, (and there are thousands of horses in this country being shod when they don't need them), I'm also very against people who need their horse shod being made to feel guilty if they can't "do" the barefoot thing. So here are some pointers as to when you SHOULD have shoes on your horse.

I hope this will start a sensible debate with other barefoot devotees like me adding their advice, and we can show that we are not the mad ourwayistheonlyway nutters that many people want to think we are.

STUDS

If you are convinced you need studs you will need to shoe. There are boots that take studs but they are not legal for BE or BD. Many of us found that studs were unnecessary for jumping even up to Advanced Eventing but you will most likely lose marks on a slick dry grass dressage arena on hard ground without them. 

GRASS

There is a very, very high proportion of barefoot horses who will feel stones in the spring summer and early autumn. This is actually very low grade laminitis. In most of those horses it can be controlled by removing them from grazing when grass sugars are high, late morning to early evening. In a smaller, but still significant, proportion a much greater restriction must be placed on sugar in grass and food.

If you simply can't restrict your horse's grazing like that, and you can't or don't want to use boots, or if you simply don't believe that your horse should have his grazing restricted, then you will need to shoe. 

WORK

Many horses will cope with peaks and troughs of work barefoot, but some will not. So if you want to  hack for four hours on Saturday, for example, your horse might not keep its foot condition well enough if he only pootles in an arena during the dark winter evenings. If so, you'll need to boot or shoe. Stony tracks and roads are no reason not to go barefoot, they cope brilliantly. But not unless they keep their conditioning, and some horses need more regular exposure than others to do that.

MINERALS

Mineral imbalances can be a nightmare. My own grazing, for example, is very high in manganese and iron. Until we knew that, my friends and I had trouble with abscesses and with insulin/laminitic issues. So we needed to investigate and found that copper and zinc are prevented from being taken up by manganese and iron. And seaweed supplementation, high in iron, was a VERY bad idea! Once we got that right by supplementing copper and zinc, abscesses stopped, cracks healed and our horses could tolerate more exposure to grass as well (copper has a role in regulating insulin, which is vital to digesting sugar). There are people on this forum and others who will help with this, but if your horse isn't "right" barefoot, and you can't find out what his imbalance is, or don't want to, you will need to shoe.

WET

Standing in a wet field all winter softens feet and some horses will not be able to cope barefoot unless they have a period each day in the dry. Unfortunately, some will also not grow foot fast enough if they stand still for more than half the hours in a day, and stabling overnight is not the best environment for them. If your horse is one of these, and you can't provide "dry turnout" (mine are in a barn, for example, others have partially covered and/or very well draining track systems) then you will need to shoe.

UNSUPPORTIVE FARRIER/VET/LIVERY

It can be very stressful to go against your farrier and/or vet in taking your horse barefoot. (Unfortunately, although there are more barefoot-aware farriers and vets every day, there are still plenty of farriers and vets telling owners that their horse won't manage when it is not true, as mine and many other barefoot horses demonstrate). Some livery yards can also be extremely hostile if your horse is at all footsore in the early days. If you can't face this, you'll need to shoe.

TRANSITION IS TOO PAINFUL

There are some horses which really struggle when the shoes first come off, and in rare cases this can last months. Those horses shouldn't be exposed to surfaces that they can't manage without protection, which can, to be honest, be a heck of a fuss and bother (booting up just to walk to the field, for example). If your horse is one of those and you can't cotton-wool him the way he would need, you'll have to leave the shoes on. 

(Other than this transitioning issue, current foot quality has no bearing WHATSOEVER on whether a horse will work happily barefoot. The removal of the shoes, with a correct diet and work, improves foot quality beyond recognition within four months, and these are some of the very horses that will benefit most.)


I hope this helps those of you who are thinking about barefoot. Hopefully other people will add their advice too.
		
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I Thought this was great although, you said about barefoot horses feeling stones etc in spring/autumn = low grade laminitis.  shoeing a horse will not solve this!!!  Its the laminitis you need to treat not the fact the horse is barefoot!  Put boots/shoes on the horse will not get rid of the fact that it is suffering from low grade lami!

ALL horses (yes ever flat footed tbs - i knew one with VERY flat crappy feet, that went barefoot with no problems) can go barefoot but unfortunately not all owners can.  There is a lot more work involved in barefoot horses (making sure diet, management etc is right) and not everyone is prepared to put the effort into it.


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## Serephin (2 October 2011)

wow, its ages since i last posted on this thread - beast is now unshod all round, and has been for nearly a year, on a low sugar diet with MagOx and is doing great.  

He will gimp on the odd pointy stone, but apart from that is all good.  MagOx was good for getting rid of his cresty neck as well.


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## PapaFrita (2 October 2011)

Thank you for that. How very interesting about the mineral content of grazing. I used to keep all of mine (unshod) on a field and had no END of hassle with abscesses. PF used to get them all the time and hasn't had them at all since living in Argentina. Also, when she had Little Cigar I tried to get her barefoot again, but she just wasn't coping. I'm assuming diet (and the fact that she'd gone through the demands of pregnancy, foaling and lactation) is relevant here. Might give it another crack now; she's been unshod for a year and a half, but not in any work at all.


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## amandap (2 October 2011)

Yes, I no longer can deny, (or hope it isn't ) that diet is a crucial element along with movement and consistent work for 'working' horses.


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## Persephone (2 October 2011)

Wow! the first post of this type that hasn't turned me away from reading the whole thing!

I have an ID/TB filly who has rather flat "draughty" feet. I had her 2 staged on vetting and the only comment was about her slightly flat feet and that she would always have to wear shoes. Obviously it didn't put me off as I bought her, but what would be the chances of her going barefoot?


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## Oberon (2 October 2011)

Persephone said:



			Wow! the first post of this type that hasn't turned me away from reading the whole thing!

I have an ID/TB filly who has rather flat "draughty" feet. I had her 2 staged on vetting and the only comment was about her slightly flat feet and that she would always have to wear shoes. Obviously it didn't put me off as I bought her, but what would be the chances of her going barefoot?
		
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http://rockleyfarm.blogspot.com/2011/09/horse-of-week-zan-flat-footed-thin.html

My Arab's hooves were never particularly flat, but they were not 'perfect', even with all my efforts and a really excellent trimmer. He was getting there and then had an abcess and a few other health issues and his hooves never 'sprang' back to life. Even a year later, they never looked like they did.

Then I overhauled his diet. I cut out the bucketful of alfalfa pellets he was on (forage replacer diet) and added specific minerals following a forage analysis.

The change in his feet was amazing, even only a month afterwards!

His white line is tighter and neater that I've seen in 20 years with him and his concavity has returned.

Added to that, he'll be able to metabolise grass better and be more resistant to infection (and his annual mud fever) all for the cheap price of a teaspoon of certain minerals each day. Magic!

Flat feet isn't a conformational thing. It's usually a symptom.
With an appropriate diet and the stimulation of working (within their limits) barefoot the soles will thicken and become concave.

It would be interesting to see pics of the feet (front wall, side wall and sole).


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## Marydoll (2 October 2011)

I find this whole to shoe or not to shoe really interesting.
I dont know all the ins and outs as to what constitutes barefoot or unshod.
 my older,  now retired mare who has arthritis had lateral extensions and rolled toe shoes on for years, she elways had an anti clockwise twisting action on her off hind, due to her arthritis. When she retired i decided to take her shoes off and after a period of footiness and chips out of her feet, i now have her nutrition sorted, she has regular trims, still by my farrier,feet are in good nick and 2 years down the line, she no longer has this twisting action in her off hind and seems much straighter moving.
Could it be the fact she is no longer shod that has changed this ??


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## amandap (2 October 2011)

My tb's hooves tend to go flat and also crack. I have found really reducing sugars as much as possible has helped her tremendously. This for us means reducing grass and soaking hay which is a lot of extra work but the results have made me realize just how some grass and hay can affect some horses.

If I ever move again the grazing and land in general will be a much bigger factor in my choice of property. It's reclaimed bog here so very, very acidic and wet. The hay I buy is made from grasses fertilized with high nitrate fertillizers and no soil testing and appropriate/bespoke fertilizing and in the tiny bits of blazing sun we get. All a recipe for high sugar hay it seems.


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## Persephone (2 October 2011)

Thanks Oberon, I'll get som pics later!


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## wyrdsister (2 October 2011)

Three said:



			Excellent post, thank you.

It also leads me off into an interesting side shoot about abcesses which I will investigate further. We have a high incidence on our yard so I'm now wondering if the grazing plays a part.

Unfortunately YO is not horsey/interested in the grazing/concerned about horses so I'll have to do the leg-work myself on this one!! 

Thanks again for informative, balanced post.
		
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Please keep us updated on what you find! We have higher incidence of this on our yard than I've ever experienced in the past and our YO isn't horsey/interested either.


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## Angelz (2 October 2011)

I honestly dont know much about the topic BUT mine has never been shod, hes worked 5 days out of 7 on various surfaces, tarmac, rubber outdoor, sand indoor-the beach  stoney ground etc etc  hes out 8 til 6 and in on rubber matting overnight, with 5kg of haylage. he has a small amount of chaff and blue chip-thats it! I dont know what Im doing right, I would actually like to know!  farrier says he has really good feet


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## splashgirl45 (2 October 2011)

AT LAST!!!!!!!!!! a sensible post on a very important issue that has not provoked a THEM AND US  scenario.   thankyou so much cptrayes for putting both sides so well.  i would love to keep my horse without shoes but am at a livery yard with very good grazing and strip grazing is not an option, my horse would stress if stabled on her own so i keep shoes on and she has the type of life she likes.  i did try no back shoes and found she wore them down so low she was sore so ended up shoeing again, i also have a brilliant farrier who only rasped round the back feet so i know it wasnt him trimming them.  if i was lucky enough to have my own land(some hopes!!!)i would definately want to try without shoes again but unless i win the lottery i think im staying where i am.....thanks again...its so nice when people manage to post without getting into a fight..


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## Oberon (2 October 2011)

marydoll said:



			I find this whole to shoe or not to shoe really interesting.
I dont know all the ins and outs as to what constitutes barefoot or unshod.
 my older,  now retired mare who has arthritis had lateral extensions and rolled toe shoes on for years, she elways had an anti clockwise twisting action on her off hind, due to her arthritis. When she retired i decided to take her shoes off and after a period of footiness and chips out of her feet, i now have her nutrition sorted, she has regular trims, still by my farrier,feet are in good nick and 2 years down the line, she no longer has this twisting action in her off hind and seems much straighter moving.
Could it be the fact she is no longer shod that has changed this ??
		
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From the observations of the barefoot rehabs I'd be inclined to believe that without the shoes, she was allowed to grow the hoof shape she needed in order to best support her limbs.

This might be of interest to you
http://rockleyfarm.blogspot.com/2011/02/hooves-and-symmetry.html


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## thatsmygirl (2 October 2011)

I was having this talk with my farrier a few nights ago and we couldn't see eye to eye. When I told him that what u feed will show in the horses hoof his reply was " well if your horse has a shiney coat what more can you put into him to improve his hoofs" and went on to say it was the farrier work which is the most important. Iv got horses with just fronts on and cope really well but everytime my farrier comes out he slices his frogs off and pars loads off his sole. He is a good farrier and highly sort after ( won't get a booking for 8 weeks) unless it's lost shoe etc he's so busy but don't seem to/won't grasp the bare foot lark. Iv just taken backs off my 2 tbs and they aren't even foot sore so shall I go for the fronts as well?


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## Marydoll (2 October 2011)

Oberon thanks for posting that link, its really interesting and very thought provoking. I am really chuffed at how much her gaits improved and if taking the shoes off has been the catalyst for this change, i just wish i'd done it sooner.


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## Oberon (2 October 2011)

thatsmygirl said:



			I was having this talk with my farrier a few nights ago and we couldn't see eye to eye. When I told him that what u feed will show in the horses hoof his reply was " well if your horse has a shiney coat what more can you put into him to improve his hoofs" and went on to say it was the farrier work which is the most important. Iv got horses with just fronts on and cope really well but everytime my farrier comes out he slices his frogs off and pars loads off his sole. He is a good farrier and highly sort after ( won't get a booking for 8 weeks) unless it's lost shoe etc he's so busy but don't seem to/won't grasp the bare foot lark. Iv just taken backs off my 2 tbs and they aren't even foot sore so shall I go for the fronts as well?
		
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What barefooters have discovered is that diet is EVERYTHING 
	
	
		
		
	


	





The hooves are a mirror of the health of the horse.
http://www.performancebarefoot.co.uk/page132a.html

If you did wish to try without shoes, you'll need someone who isn't going to pare the sole or frogs. That's the quickest way to lame a barefooter. You may have an excellent farrier - most people do have an excellent farrier. Alot of those people have lame horses too.

If you follow Rockley Farm's blog with her rehab horses you may have heard of The Celery Trim. It's the discovery that the horses actually come sounder quicker when not trimmed very much at all. 

Less is more.

You may need to find someone who is willing to listen to your views and learn about 'this barefoot lark' if you want to try without shoes......


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## thatsmygirl (2 October 2011)

Oberon thank you very much,


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## rhino (2 October 2011)

horsemadmum1 said:



			A compromise is to leave the back shoes off and only shoe in front.
		
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Or you could do as my horse decided today - came in with shoes only on the near side feet  Losing 1 shoe overnight is unlucky, but TWO?!

OP - thank you, food for thought although I know current horse would not be an ideal candidate for barefoot


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## Oberon (2 October 2011)

rhino said:



			Or you could do as my horse decided today - came in with shoes only on the near side feet  Losing 1 shoe overnight is unlucky, but TWO?!

OP - thank you, food for thought although I know current horse would not be an ideal candidate for barefoot 

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Perhaps your horse is trying to tell you something


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## rhino (2 October 2011)

Oberon said:



			Perhaps your horse is trying to tell you something 
	
	
		
		
	


	




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You may well be right!  He is an old boy though and may not be with us too much longer  so will not be making any changes to his management.


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## cptrayes (2 October 2011)

RolyPolyPony said:



			I Thought this was great although, you said about barefoot horses feeling stones etc in spring/autumn = low grade laminitis.  shoeing a horse will not solve this!!!  Its the laminitis you need to treat not the fact the horse is barefoot!  Put boots/shoes on the horse will not get rid of the fact that it is suffering from low grade lami!

ALL horses can go barefoot but unfortunately not all owners can.  There is a lot more work involved in barefoot horses (making sure diet, management etc is right) and not everyone is prepared to put the effort into it.
		
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I'm sorry Rolypolypony but I disagree with you. I do not agree that all horses can go barefoot, though I do think that most could. 

It is correct, of course, that shoeing a horse will not solve low grade laminitis. But it will usually completely remove pain from the horse. There are people who believe that it is more important to have their horse out on grazing than it is to remove every last symptom of a slight grass intolerance.  Provided that their owner is aware that they are at risk of acute laminitis and manage the horse properly, then I do not believe that these horses are "suffering".

This is exactly the kind of choice that I meant to highlight. If you are in a livery stables with no control over your grazing and have a horse that grows weak feet if it doesn't get enough movement, or stresses if kept in when its friends are out, then you may simply have no choice than to have your  horse shod. It is not a question of "being prepared to put the effort into it". Some people simply have no choice.

No, it's not ideal, it's a compromise. The kind of compromise that ordinary people with ordinary horses in ordinary livery yards have to make every day of their lives.


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## spookypony (2 October 2011)

I know this is an old post resurrected, but thanks anyway for posting such a balanced discussion!

I've kept my pony barefoot since I've had him (almost 3 years now), and we've had some struggles with LGL, and precisely the sort of livery-yard compromises that cptrayes mentions. Although we have a starvation paddock (known as "pony jail"), there is far greater demand for it than can be satisfied (only 2 allowed in there at once), and so we end up on complicated rotation systems (many of us are on grass livery, so no option to stable). I notice a marked change in my pony's entire demeanour when he's been off the rich grass for a day or two. But I'm also aware that shoeing would be masking the problem. He's been on mag-ox for a year, and we had far less problems with the grass this year than last year. 

Our yard has about a dozen barefooters on it now (from 2, 3 years ago), and a number of other people worried about laminitis. I'm hoping that we can have a sit-down sometime this winter to come up with a plan for restricted grazing that our YM might accept. A track system would be ideal, but there's certainly no money for anything like installing pea gravel, and it's so wet here that I strongly suspect the track would just turn into a mud slide. Any suggestions gladly entertained!


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## Oberon (2 October 2011)

rhino said:



			You may well be right!  He is an old boy though and may not be with us too much longer  so will not be making any changes to his management.
		
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Oh, I'm sorry


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