# The Black and white days of hunting



## Simsar (8 August 2010)

Hope this works and I hope you enjoy the pictures.

http://s965.photobucket.com/albums/ae140/Huntingdays_Simsar/


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## SusannaF (8 August 2010)

Aha   another era! Where is Cragside? Is it still standing? It looks extraordinary - an overgrown mock-Tudor manor bolted to the side of a castle on a cliff. Fantastical and beautiful.


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## Red30563 (8 August 2010)

What fascinating photos, Simsar. Thank you for posting them. Are they your family pics?


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## Dirty_D (8 August 2010)

Fantastic photo's, thanks for sharing


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## Simsar (8 August 2010)

This is Cragside now (link below), a very interesting house it was the first house in the UK to have electricity!  I think that would have been when my Great-grandad Jo was head groom, and then later my grandad joined him.

I'm glad you like them thank you for your comments it was a nice thing to do today to put them together so thank you.  I'm sorry but I wasn't going to do all of them! 


http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/main/w-cragsidehousegardenandestate


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## Simsar (8 August 2010)

Red30563 said:



			What fascinating photos, Simsar. Thank you for posting them. Are they your family pics?
		
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Hey thanks for the comment yes they are I have labeled some of them so you can see who is who.


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## Simsar (8 August 2010)

Dirty_D said:



			Fantastic photo's, thanks for sharing
		
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Your welcome DD.


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## AML (9 August 2010)

Thank you very much for that glimpse into the past.

I have a lady who helps exercise, once a week. She is 81 this year and hunted, when hunting was hunting. I think the word "character" was invented for her ...


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## SusannaF (9 August 2010)

Simsar, could I put one of the pictures and a link to the album on my blog (link in sig)?


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## LauraWheeler (9 August 2010)

Oh wow thanks for sharing. It was so nice looking at all those old pics of real hunters. Thankyou for taking the time to post those all online


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## JenHunt (9 August 2010)

they're some wonderful pic Simsar. what a heritage!


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## Baggybreeches (9 August 2010)

Wow how elegant are those photos? I love that house! Thank you for sharing them Simsar.


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## Double_choc_lab (9 August 2010)

What wonderful photos - thanks so much for taking the time to share them.  I did notice there wasn't an ounce of fat on those hunt horses!


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## Angua2 (9 August 2010)

They are amazing, thank you so much for sharing.  It was like a glimpse into another world


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## Simsar (9 August 2010)

Thanks guys that is really nice of you all to say such lovely things, and I thought you lot would be bored!!!! LOL.


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## Simsar (9 August 2010)

SusannaF said:



			Simsar, could I put one of the pictures and a link to the album on my blog (link in sig)?
		
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Thank you for asking of course you can if it is easy to do??  Do I need to do anything?

PS if you ever meet Banksy, tell him I'm his number one fan!  Only if he supports hunting that is and isn't a tree hugger. xx


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## Simsar (9 August 2010)

Double_choc_lab said:



			What wonderful photos - thanks so much for taking the time to share them.  I did notice there wasn't an ounce of fat on those hunt horses!
		
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LOL they look more like today's polo ponies don't they.


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## Enfys (9 August 2010)

Love them, thoroughly enjoyed looking through those, thankyou.
Totally brilliant, fascinating in so many ways, kind of real life Flambards. 
What sort of dates do they cover?


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## SusannaF (9 August 2010)

Simsar said:



			Thank you for asking of course you can if it is easy to do??  Do I need to do anything?

PS if you ever meet Banksy, tell him I'm his number one fan!  Only if he supports hunting that is and isn't a tree hugger. xx
		
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Dead easy, and thank you for permission! It should go up tomorrow at 8am UK time.

I haven't collected any horsey Banksy stuff yet, but my eyes are peeled


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## Simsar (9 August 2010)

enfys said:



			Love them, thoroughly enjoyed looking through those, thankyou.
Totally brilliant, fascinating in so many ways, kind of real life Flambards. 
What sort of dates do they cover?
		
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Dates???  Some are dated will have a look early 1900's the sidesaddle ones will be, GGdad and Grandad ones will have to ask mum, 1940/50's??


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## Simsar (9 August 2010)

SusannaF said:



			Dead easy, and thank you for permission! No thank you for the interest.  It should go up tomorrow at 8am UK time.  

I haven't collected any horsey Banksy stuff yet, but my eyes are peeled  The bloke is a genius or is it a bloke?  I have two copies of his work waiting to be framed Q Vic and the dust under the carpet, Don't think they are called that but hey ho.
		
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Thanks again.x


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## Maesfen (9 August 2010)

Great pics, must see if I can sort some out too just to catch up with you!


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## chestnut cob (9 August 2010)

Maesfen said:



			Great pics, must see if I can sort some out too just to catch up with you!
		
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You must!!  The ones you have up on your walls are fabulous, I loved looking at them!


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## Maesfen (9 August 2010)

chestnut cob said:



			You must!!  The ones you have up on your walls are fabulous, I loved looking at them! 

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Thanks CC, we've got so used to them but some of them are real one-offs you won't find anywhere else, like some of Simsar's.


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## Doncella (9 August 2010)

Thank you for sharing these photographs.  More I say more!!!
Wish some one would do the same with early show jumpers!!!!!


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## Simsar (10 August 2010)

Maybe start a post???  The response I have had is amazing. xxx


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## Simsar (10 August 2010)

SusannaF said:



			Simsar, could I put one of the pictures and a link to the album on my blog (link in sig)?
		
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Awesome thank you for doing that. x


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## Kallibear (10 August 2010)

Amazing pictures. Such a shame there's not more picture docunmetation of the olden days.

And I was thinking the exact same as other about the horses condition - it makes you realise quite how fat todays show horses are!


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## tootsietoo (12 August 2010)

They are fantastic pictures Simsar, thank you.

Don't they all look fabulous!  The bowlers, the breeches....  The horses are generally much skinnier than today I think.  I guess they probably had to be a lot fitter as they probably hacked to most meets for miles.  And there is not a plait to be seen!  Most of them are hogged.


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## Alec Swan (12 August 2010)

Simsar,

I've spent the last half hour going through your pics.  

WONDERFUL,  no other word will do!! and thank you.

Alec.


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## Simsar (13 August 2010)

Your all very welcome, to think they have sat in a drawer for ages, their are only so many you can frame.  I am currently in touch with the two possible hunts as someone has asked which hunt so I will let you know in the near future, my mum is down next week not that her memory is any god bless her, old age and all that.  Sorry mum.


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## Irishlife (13 August 2010)

Quite simply stunning!


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## Simsar (14 August 2010)

Thanks IL.x


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## ChwaraeTeg (15 August 2010)

Alec Swan said:



			Simsar,

I've spent the last half hour going through your pics.  

WONDERFUL,  no other word will do!! and thank you.

Alec.
		
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or ....  FAN-blinkin-TASTIC  
Thank-you SO much 
Tegs


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## Simsar (15 August 2010)

Your welcome will put some more on photobucket soon.  I will let you know when.


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## Simsar (22 August 2010)

Ok been in touch with the Morpeth hunt and they think the hunt in most of the pictures may be The Percy?  Anyone know of The Percy Hunt?


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## Simsar (2 September 2010)

Simsar said:



			Ok been in touch with the Morpeth hunt and they think the hunt in most of the pictures may be The Percy?  Anyone know of The Percy Hunt?
		
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Anyone?


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## Sanolly (2 September 2010)

What wonderful pictures, thank you so much for sharing. It's interesting to see the difference between tack and riding styles then and now. I'm not sure if it's the stirrup length or not but those horses look huge!


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## Alec Swan (3 September 2010)

I wonder if Admin would agree to yet another sticky.  It could start off with Simsar's delightful offering,  and then others could add to it.

Perhaps it could take the form of the foal pics on the Breeders section.  What do you think?  It could replace the sticky which heads this section.  The one where the FC has had to remind us of the Terms and Conditions,  yet again,  and it would certainly be more entertaining!

Alec.


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## Maesfen (3 September 2010)

Simsar said:



			Ok been in touch with the Morpeth hunt and they think the hunt in most of the pictures may be The Percy?  Anyone know of The Percy Hunt?
		
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Tut tut, read your Baileys but from memory as I can't be bothered to fetch ours!

The Percy are up in Northumberland and carry the Percy name (Duke of Northumberland of Alnwick Castle?) it was their own hunt for some years (1800s) then like most other private packs opened to subscribers later on.  The present Duke and I believe his sister are/were Masters as have all the Dukes before him.  Hounds were Old English but don't know about now.  We've been saying for years we'd like to go up for a day but never got around to it.
Here endeth the history lesson.


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## Simsar (3 September 2010)

Yeah yeah no all that just wondered if the Percy could enlighten me on the photo's, and if it was their hunt in the photo's. xxxx


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## Simsar (3 September 2010)

Sanolly said:



			What wonderful pictures, thank you so much for sharing. It's interesting to see the difference between tack and riding styles then and now. I'm not sure if it's the stirrup length or not but those horses look huge!
		
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Your welcome, the days before knee rolls! I bet the bums were sore too.x


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## Simsar (3 September 2010)

Alec Swan said:



			I wonder if Admin would agree to yet another sticky.  It could start off with Simsar's delightful offering,  and then others could add to it.

Perhaps it could take the form of the foal pics on the Breeders section.  What do you think?  It could replace the sticky which heads this section.  The one where the FC has had to remind us of the Terms and Conditions,  yet again,  and it would certainly be more entertaining!

Alec.
		
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Thank you very nice to think that but TFC is a bit mean on sticky's.


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## Simsar (24 September 2010)

Bit dull for Christmas cards!


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## Tinkerbee (26 September 2010)

Absolutely fantastic photos! Thanks for sharing.


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## Simsar (28 September 2010)

Thank you for taking the time to look.  I will dig some more out soon.


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## posie_honey (28 September 2010)

Simsar said:



			LOL they look more like today's polo ponies don't they.
		
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thats what i was thinking! i didn't eralise they hogged so much back then!
great piccies


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## Alec Swan (1 October 2010)

Simsar said:



			Bit dull for Christmas cards!
		
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Nonsense,  they'd be ideal,  and certainly better than the dreary selection from the average SM!!  

Alec.


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## weez (1 October 2010)

Wonderful.
Thanks so much for sharing them with us.


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## Doncella (1 October 2010)

There are some fantastic horses, all clean legged and not a warmblood in sight.
It would be nice to see something similar from the early days of showjumping.


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## Aesculus (2 October 2010)

Great photo's! My online Baily's tells me the The Percy have a website and from memory from the last FoH at Peterborough there is someone writing a hunt history (though I cannot remember who - if I do I will PM). I am certain that they would be able to confirm whether its them


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## Simsar (5 October 2010)

Not heard anything from either hunt but hey ho, The National Trust were just as helpful NOT!


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## HerbiesDad (6 October 2010)

Truly wonderful pictures! Thanks


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## Simsar (10 October 2010)

Ok I think some of the photo's are at Bamburgh Castle just waiting to confirm.


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## Haniki (11 October 2010)

I've only just caught up with this thread - what wonderful photos Simsar, thank you for sharing.


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## Simsar (11 October 2010)

Your welcome.

I have spoken to Bamburgh Castle today and they confirm that some are from there.  I think the lady of the castle rides too.  I will ask which hunt.  They have asked to put some photo's on their site so that will be nice to see.


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## dominobrown (11 October 2010)

Love the photos. They are fascinating. I think hunting back then must of been so romantic. Thanks for posting them!


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## QUICKFIRE (11 October 2010)

Great photo's Thanks for shareing


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## k9h (12 October 2010)

Simsar said:



			Yeah yeah no all that just wondered if the Percy could enlighten me on the photo's, and if it was their hunt in the photo's. xxxx
		
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Sorry just caught up with this post!

I use to groom for the Percy so will have a look & let you know!

The Duke is no longer a Master, he stood down when then ban came in. He never rode anyway, more into his shooting.

Off to have a look at the pics!


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## k9h (12 October 2010)

Ssadly couldn't say for sure!

Pics 32 looks very similar (but not) to the old stables in the castle. They  have movedout of there now.
Staff should have 6 buttons down the front.

Just found this
During the latter part of the 18th and early 19th centuries numerous gentlemen at different times had small packs of hounds, and hunted what is now the Percy country, until Lord Elcho (subsequently Lord Wemyss) hunted what is now the Berwickshire, North Northumberland and Percy countries. In 1850 Lord Wemyss lent that part of his country which is now the Percy to W Selby of Biddlestone, who hunted it until 1858. In 1870 Major A Browne, of Doxford Hall bought Lord Poltimore&#8217;s pack (then the Cattistock), from which the present pack are descended, and hunted the present Percy country. In 1874 the west part of the country was lent to what is now the West Percy. In1892 the north part of the country was lent to R Burdon Sanderson, but in 1905 Mr Burdon Sanderson retired and the Percy resumed the loan. In 1921 the north west of the country was lent to Lt Col R H Milvain, who retired in 1955. This part of the country was named the Milvain (Percy). The Milvain country was reabsorbed into the Percy in 1997. The Old English pack of hounds today belong to the Duke of Northumberland.


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## Simsar (12 October 2010)

Yes quoted from The Percy I saw that too.

I have been in touch With Mr Calvert Director from Bamburgh Castle and he thinks they maybe The Percy Hunt, as that is who hunts through the castle.


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## Maizy (12 October 2010)

Lovely, lovely lovely.  Thank you for sharing.


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## Simsar (15 October 2010)

Your welcome. x


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## Alec Swan (15 October 2010)

Simsar,

I would hope that this modest post of mine wont be seen as a hijack,  but I've just bought a half leather bound copy of Lionel Edwards "A Leicester-shire Sketch book".  

The pencil work,  contained within,  is breath taking.  I feel such anger,  towards those who would prevent hounds,  horses,  and man too,  from following an entirely natural instinct.

The book cost a great deal of money.  Don't care,  but what would I give for an original Edwards pencil work?  Does anyone know of any?  

Alec.


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## Simsar (15 October 2010)

Alec you should have asked I have one you could of had.  The book I mean.


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## Simsar (15 October 2010)

Sorry its called My Irish Sketch Book.


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## Simsar (15 October 2010)

This is what I mean.







Tried to sell on ebay no one wanted it.


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## Simsar (15 October 2010)

Also tried to sell this.  But it is 4ft by 3ft


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## Paddydou (15 October 2010)

I have been looking and not found anything but prints so far. Will have to keep an eye open.


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## Alec Swan (15 October 2010)

Simsar said:



			This is what I mean.







Tried to sell on ebay no one wanted it.
		
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I've been offered a copy for £120.  Perhaps not quite as well read,  as yours,  but it's still a delight,  I'm sure.  I'm not going to tell you what I paid for the Leicester-shire copy!  It's 80 years old and mint.  The work,  contained within,  made it worth every penny!!

I would love to find examples of Edwards original work,  as in his pencil work.  Does anyone have any of them?

Alec.


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## JenHunt (15 October 2010)

there used to be a chap who hunted with us who dealt in "sporting Literature" in particular old hunting books. Sadly he died 2 or 3 years ago, but it's possible that someone has taken on the business. His name was Richard (Dick) Barry.


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## Maesfen (15 October 2010)

I'm a sucker for old hunting books too!  I have to admit I can't afford top notch copies but as long as they're complete I don't mind too much.  They make fascinating reading and have taught me a lot too.
One of our most treasured pictures is a small copy of one that was 'made' just half a mile away from here by Loinel Edwards no less; even better, OH's aunt would take him a flask of tea and cake in the afternoon as his 'spot' was just along from her cottage.  It was later made into a Christmas card for the person that commissioned it and one was sent to her as a thank you.  The lane has very little changed and it is still a favourite crossing place for foxes.  I'll scan it in after the weekend for you, I love it not only because it's a great painting but because of the personal family history to it too.


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## Simsar (16 October 2010)

Alec, wouldn't dream of asking the price.


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## Simsar (26 October 2010)

Just had a thought we need some modern day black and white photo please.


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## JenHunt (26 October 2010)

think that's a brilliant idea...

not strictly in b/w as it was taken in colour... but how does this do for starters? taken early March 2010, snow was just melting and this was our first day back. 






ETA - sorry it's so huge!!


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## Simsar (26 October 2010)

brilliant Jen thank you.  Are you on a very tall horse by any chance?? x


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## JenHunt (26 October 2010)

OH took the pic, from an 18.1 hannoverian dinosaur... the only horse I know who genuinely resembles his dinosaur heritage!  this is him, taken from on board!






ETA - that's me poking out behind his ears!


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## Simsar (26 October 2010)

LOL!  Thought so he makes the lane and hedges look sooooooo small!. x


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## skewby (26 October 2010)

Jen that photo is just stunning, and just says/evokes it all xx


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## JenHunt (26 October 2010)

thank you! it was a wonderfully eerie start to the day... it finished with the middle photo in my sig! you wouldn't think the two were from the same day would you!?


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## Simsar (26 October 2010)

Jen can you post the middle photo please.


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## JenHunt (26 October 2010)

its one of these two...











and the two below are from the sequence taken in the morning, as the mist receded.


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## Alec Swan (26 October 2010)

Jen,

a breath taking pic.  Market it!!

Alec.


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## JenHunt (26 October 2010)

thanks Alec - we have such wonderful countryside, tis no wonder we have some fab photos.
this one's from late last season (last week of march I think)






and this is from december time 2009 i think


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## Simsar (27 October 2010)

Its like sleepy hollow!  Thanks for sharing. x


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## Simsar (28 October 2010)

The technical report of the photo's for those that are interested.

William Henry Armstrong Fitzpatrick Watson-Armstrong, 1st Baron Armstrong1
M, #52195, b. 3 May 1863, d. 16 October 1941

William Henry Armstrong Fitzpatrick Watson-Armstrong, 1st Baron Armstrong|b. 3 May 1863\nd. 16 Oct 1941|p5220.htm#i52195|John William Watson|d. 30 Jan 1909|p1949.htm#i19481|Margaret Godman Fitzpatrick|d. 18 Aug 1922|p1949.htm#i19482|Sir William H. Watson||p1950.htm#i19496|Anne Armstrong|d. 1 Jun 1828|p1950.htm#i19495|Patrick P. Fitzpatrick||p1949.htm#i19483||||

Last Edited=18 Mar 2007
     William Henry Armstrong Fitzpatrick Watson-Armstrong, 1st Baron Armstrong was born on 3 May 1863 at 65 Eccleston Square, London, England.1 He was baptised at St. Gabriel's Church, Warwick Square, London, England.1 He was the son of John William Watson and Margaret Godman Fitzpatrick.1 He married, firstly, Winifreda Jane Adye, daughter of General Sir John Miller Adye and Mary Cordelia Stopford, on 15 June 1889 at St. Saviour's Church, St. George Hanover Square, London, England.1 He married, secondly, Beatrice Elizabeth Cowx, daughter of Jonathan Cowx and Elizabeth Soward, on 31 August 1916 at Rothbury Parish Church, Rothbury, Northumberland, England.1 He married, thirdly, Kathleen England, daughter of Reverend Charles Thorpe England and Lucy Taylor, on 7 October 1935 at Rothbury Parish Church, Rothbury, Northumberland, England.1 He died on 16 October 1941 at age 78.2
     William Henry Armstrong Fitzpatrick Watson-Armstrong, 1st Baron Armstrong was baptised with the name of William Henry Armstrong Fitzpatrick Watson.1 He was educated between 1877 and 1882 at Eton College, Eton, Berkshire, England.1 He was educated between 1882 and 1885 at Trinity College, Cambridge University, Cambridge, Cambridgeshire, England.1 He graduated from Trinity College, Cambridge University, Cambridge, Cambridgeshire, England, in 1885 with a Master of Arts (M.A.).1 On 1889 his name was legally changed to William Henry Armstrong Fitzpatrick Watson-Armstrong by Royal Licence.1 He gained the rank of Major in the service of the Northumberland Hussars.1 He held the office of High Sheriff of Northumberland in 1899.1 He held the office of Deputy Lieutenant (D.L.) of Northumberland.1 He was awarded the honorary degree of Doctor of Civil Laws (D.C.L.) by Durham University, Durham, County Durham, England.1 He was an honorary Freeman of Newcastle-upon-Tyne.1 He was created 1st Baron Armstrong, of Bamburgh and Cragside, co. Northumberland [U.K.] on 4 August 1903.1
Children of William Henry Armstrong Fitzpatrick Watson-Armstrong, 1st Baron Armstrong and Winifreda Jane Adye







Kathleen England1
F, #52206, b. 12 August 1898, d. 1970

Kathleen England|b. 12 Aug 1898\nd. 1970|p5221.htm#i52206|Reverend Charles Thorpe England||p5221.htm#i52207|Lucy Taylor||p1949.htm#i19486|||||||Luke Taylor||p1949.htm#i19487||||

Last Edited=15 Aug 2010
     Kathleen England was born on 12 August 1898 at Dewsbury, Yorkshire, England.2 She was the daughter of Reverend Charles Thorpe England and Lucy Taylor.1 She married, firstly, William Henry Armstrong Fitzpatrick Watson-Armstrong, 1st Baron Armstrong, son of John William Watson and Margaret Godman Fitzpatrick, on 7 October 1935 at Rothbury Parish Church, Rothbury, Northumberland, England.1 She married, secondly, Lorne Campbell-Robson on 18 February 1947.3 She died in 1970.3
     As a result of her marriage, Kathleen England was styled as Baroness Armstrong on 7 October 1935. From 7 October 1935, her married name became Watson-Armstrong.1 From 18 February 1947, her married name became Campbell-Robson.


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## Simsar (19 March 2011)

Just thought I would bring all of these photo's back for those that hadn't seen them.  Sorry for those of you that are bored of them. xxxxxxxx

PS the grey will be autumn hunting this year.


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## Fiagai (19 March 2011)

Wonderfull Photos Simsar!  I have some b&ws from the time my grandmother hunted in the 1920s....she caused quite a turn when she showed up in breeches (very daring!) and rode astride (shocking!).   Must root them out.  Funny thing was that the horse she regularly rode is the spit of my current fellow -even down to his blaze - I wonder did he share the same attitude


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## joy (19 March 2011)

Fiagai said:



			Wonderfull Photos Simsar!  I have some b&ws from the time my grandmother hunted in the 1920s....she caused quite a turn when she showed up in breeches (very daring!) and rode astride (shocking!).   Must root them out.  Funny thing was that the horse she regularly rode is the spit of my current fellow -even down to his blaze - I wonder did he share the same attitude 

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Please put them on.


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## Simsar (19 March 2011)

F, I have PM'd you. and please find photo's and anyone else that would like to add some B&W especially. x


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## Fiagai (19 March 2011)

Simsar said:



			F, I have PM'd you. and please find photo's and anyone else that would like to add some B&W especially. x
		
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Thanks for that S.  Will do, my nephew has promised to come over some day and do some scanning for me (these are not digital photographs!).


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## Patterdale (5 February 2013)

Bumping this as I just found it and thought the pictures are amazing!

FWIW I'd say they are a selection of the Milvain, Percy and maybe College Valley. 

Lovely pics! 
Did you ever offload that book simsar?


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## Simsar (6 February 2013)

Nope decided to keep it as have bought some to more to start a collection.


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## Alec Swan (6 February 2013)

Simsar said:



			Nope decided to keep it as have bought some to more to start a collection.
		
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Was that the Edwards book?  If it was,  I have something to tell you! 

How are you?  Give us your news,  good or bad.  There's a void for many of us,  I feel sure,  almost a Soapbox chat thing,  if you see what I mean!! 

Alec.


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## Simsar (6 February 2013)

Alec I emailed you ages ago to see how you were got no reply (much the same as when you last emailed me  ) will send you a message later.

S&S


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## Festive_Felicitations (15 February 2013)

Stunning photos! Glad this thread was resurected!


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