# 'Diploma in Horse care' devalued?



## EstherYoung (31 January 2012)

Has anyone seen this?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-16789215

I think they are on about the BTEC Diploma in horse care, and it means it no longer has a GCSE equivalent.


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## Abbeygale (31 January 2012)

I saw this - but what I heard of it, they weren't happy that schools were using vocational courses in order to bump up there stats for pupils that weren't doing so well in academic subjects.  The horse care diploma is, AFAIK, usually run in vocational colleges rather than schools.  The courses they were talking about we're the ones aimed at 14/15 year olds, which I don't think the horse care is aimed at.

Some snooty woman was busy saying that they wanted to get rid of courses that held no significance for future work - like office skills.  Well surely that is something that could be useful? Surely kids have to learn basics of office work somewhere, and I would have thought that quite a lot of jobs would have some kind of office skills in them at some point?


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## sabinarose (31 January 2012)

I always understood the Btech National Diploma in horse management to be equivalent to A-levels as you can achieve your UCAS points to go to uni, i think my local college have changed the course slightly now though. It would be interesting to find out more .


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## sport horse (31 January 2012)

Thank goodness at last the government does seem to be taking some action to raise basic eduaction levels. Vocational courses such as Horse Care/Office skills come after GCSE not a part of them.

I am an employer in the horse industry and I can assure everyone that being able to read, write and do arithmetic are essential tools for this work unless you want to be a basic drudge mucking out all day and with no other responsibility.

How can you 'Care for a horse' if you cannot read the instructions on a drug or feed label? How can you apply those instructions if you cannot do the sums involved to give the correct amount?  The abillity to do this is crucial to the well being of your charges.

I have even taken on a girl who passed her end of college exams, after a 3 year course, with honours. What a pity that no one thought to mention that she was so dyslexic that that she had taken the exams verbally and was totally unable to write a thing. I found out when she was unable to keep my horse records up to date or pass basic messages to me and I then had to sort out the resultant mess. She was excellent with the horses and indeed did have her place in my yard but she was unable to do the job for which I had interviewed her and her CV gave me no idea of this fact. Should I really have to give a graduate a writing test? 

Before you all jump on me to say that everyone must have equal opportunity - yes I agree but how much worse was it for this girl who tried to cover her problem for a month or so, the trauma of hiding it from me and the tragic tears when it became obvious, than if it had all been in the open before hand and we could have decided what part of the job she was able to carry out and how we could manage the rest - which we did for the 5 subsequent years! 

Come on world we are falling behind and failing our young people by pretending that it does not matter that you cannot read, write, spell etc etc. Look at some of the posts on this forum - you need to be a magician to understand some of them because the grammar is so poor.  It does matter so lets teach people accordingly and give them a chance before all our employees  are foreign.

Todays children are no less intelligent than previous generations. Lets educate them as well as previous generations.


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## noodle_ (31 January 2012)

we did "proper" GCSE's (english, maths, science, music, history etc)- I have 10 GCSE's in normal subjects

i wouldnt let my child do any qualification within school that has horse care in it!!.....or anything else for that matter

If a child decides to go on a play ponies as an adult - good for them but no way should it be given as an option age 13/14 imo!


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## Honey08 (31 January 2012)

I agree.  Horses are not a school subject. Thats also from someone who did her BHSAI on leaving school.


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## Kat (31 January 2012)

Schools do use this type of thing to massage the league tables. My friend is a language teacher and recently had a year nine pupil who was told that they would have to drop French to do a business studies GNVQ equivalent to 2 GCSEs grade A-C. 

This child was one who in many subjects was boarderline C/D grade, what the head was doing was making its number of A-C passes look better by FORCING pupils unlikely to get A-C passes in enough subjects to drop optional subjects and take a GNVQ instead, as hey presto 2 of those gives 4 A-C passes and they are easier for kids to pass. 

This child loved language lessons and wanted to continue with them. French was one of his best subjects and he wanted to use it in his future life, both because he travelled to france with his family and because he was planning a career in which languages would be useful (tourism and hospitality I think). It was disgraceful and the child's parents had to get involved to persuade the head to make an exception. My friend was FURIOUS!


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## Onyxia (31 January 2012)

sport horse said:



			Thank goodness at last the government does seem to be taking some action to raise basic eduaction levels. Vocational courses such as Horse Care/Office skills come after GCSE not a part of them.


Todays children are no less intelligent than previous generations. Lets educate them as well as previous generations.
		
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What a wonderful post!

I have believed for a  long time that we should be teaching a more old fashioned grammar school type curriculum in schools, vocational qualifications are important but are for after GCSE.
The basic skills learned form a grammar school style curriculum are highly important to any line of work and must not be forgotten!


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## EstherYoung (31 January 2012)

Have schools been offering the BTEC horse care diploma though? (Other than Queen Ethelburgas of course...) A quick google search confirmed that it has been up to press been 'worth' 4 GCSEs, but that it is only really available at colleges and you need a GCSE in English and Maths before you can take it.

So it might have been the colleges using it in their published GCSE results rather than schools. I just wondered if anyone knew any more about it. The change might affect people who were intending on using the diploma as credit towards further education.


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## bobreader (31 January 2012)

Lets face it the education system is a farce, not all children will grow up to be brain surgeons or architects, but are forced to sit in class learning stuff to take exams in order to promote the position of the school in the tables and NOT to teach them anything that will get them work when they leave school.


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## Abbeygale (31 January 2012)

As far as I'm aware the btec nat. dip.  course has always been a post GCSE course so. Don't fully understand why it has been brought into this by the media.  Maybe its just that to some journalists, it is highly amusing that anyone would spend time getting a qualification to work with horses? :-/


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## ofcourseyoucan (31 January 2012)

having done several 0 level assessments in horse riding as part of a PE o level the standard required is quite high. (just above PC B level) but yes i do agree that it really shouldnt count towards an acedemic result. tho it should qualify for some recognition.
As an employer, the standard of FE students who have an equine degree is sadly appalling as most of the students have absolutely NO work ethic. and at the end of the day horses are hard work!


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## Kat (1 February 2012)

ofcourseyoucan said:



			having done several 0 level assessments in horse riding as part of a PE o level the standard required is quite high. (just above PC B level) but yes i do agree that it really shouldnt count towards an acedemic result. tho it should qualify for some recognition.
As an employer, the standard of FE students who have an equine degree is sadly appalling as most of the students have absolutely NO work ethic. and at the end of the day horses are hard work!
		
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Including horse riding as a sport for the purposes of GCSE PE is completely different. That is just one small section of a GCSE syllabus. 

The story is about GNVQ and BTEC qualifications. Some schools have used these to bolster their GCSE results by putting students through them instead of GCSEs.

To say that Horse Riding should not be allowed as part of GCSE PE is to suggest that equestrian sports are of a lower status than Football, Basket Ball, Gymnastics, Hockey, athletics etc. If we accept that PE can be a legitimate subject for a GCSE (and it generally isn't an easy option as knowledge of rules, anatomy, nutrition etc is required) then there should be no discrimination between sports. 

The debate about these vocational qualifications relates to all subjects not just horse care. More commonly schools use things like business studies, hospitality, hairdressing, sports technology, food, etc and either teach the subject themselves or send the pupils to a nearby college.


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## Sianage (8 February 2012)

Kat said:



			The story is about GNVQ and BTEC qualifications. Some schools have used these to bolster their GCSE results by putting students through them instead of GCSEs.

The debate about these vocational qualifications relates to all subjects not just horse care. More commonly schools use things like business studies, hospitality, hairdressing, sports technology, food, etc and either teach the subject themselves or send the pupils to a nearby college.
		
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^This!!

When I was going into Yr 10 (about 8 years ago), some pupils who weren't particularly academic were offered to do studies in horse care, hairdressing etc at a local college (a bit like day release) instead of doing loads of GCSEs. They obviously still had to complete English, Maths and Science GCSEs as well as a language and a design and technology GCSE as those were compulsory at my school.

I admit I wanted to do it at the time but I didn't realise that it wasn't really aimed at me - I ended up with 12 GCSEs at reasonable grades.


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## Mrs Claus (8 February 2012)

I had seen this on bbc news when it was broadcast-ed i presume GSCE PE horse riding will be scraped to ??


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## ShowJumperBeckii (8 February 2012)

Surely GCSE PE horse riding wont be scraped cause its only one part of the exam? (still have to do 3v other sports)


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## Mrs Claus (8 February 2012)

sorry i made no sense there at all ShowjumperBeckii have u done it or not yet?


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## ShowJumperBeckii (8 February 2012)

no im not a school, so your probally right but GCSE PE you pick 4 sports and riding is only one so i would of thought that wouldnt off been scraped cause its only a small part, if that makes any sense? 
if thats what your talking about? if not ingore me


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## Mrs Claus (8 February 2012)

yes that is what i meant


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## Shilasdair (8 February 2012)

BTEC First Diploma is a mix of academic style information and practical application - it is offered in FE colleges to 16yr old students post GCSE (they usually only need 2 GCSEs as entry requirements to the First Diploma.  To be honest, it doesn't attract the type of student who would be able to stay on at school and achieve GCSEs anyway - it is aimed at the weaker students who require more support for whatever reason.
BTEC National Diploma is again a mix of academic and practical modules, aimed at 16 - 18yr olds once they have completed their GCSEs.  It is more challenging than the FD and requires usually around 4 - 5 GCSEs at entry (or a FD).  It is an A level equivalent, and bears UCAS tariff points, so a student can go on to a Foundation Degree or Degree at the end. Equally, a student could choose to do BHS exams while they trained.
Neither are offered in schools - unless the school has a full yard etc.
Hope that helps
S


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## Kat (8 February 2012)

Mrs Claus said:



			I had seen this on bbc news when it was broadcast-ed i presume GSCE PE horse riding will be scraped to ??
		
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It won't affect GCSE PE, the problem isn't with horses being on the curriculum, it is with vocational courses being offered with an equivalent value to GCSEs that means the schools can use them to skew the league tables.


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## Shilasdair (8 February 2012)

Kat said:



			It won't affect GCSE PE, the problem isn't with horses being on the curriculum, it is with vocational courses being offered with an equivalent value to GCSEs that means the schools can use them to skew the league tables.
		
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Schools can't use FD or ND to skew league tables - unless they have a yard full of horses and trained instructors.
S


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## galaxy (8 February 2012)

ofcourseyoucan said:



			having done several 0 level assessments in horse riding as part of a PE o level the standard required is quite high. (just above PC B level) but yes i do agree that it really shouldnt count towards an acedemic result. tho it should qualify for some recognition.
As an employer, the standard of FE students who have an equine degree is sadly appalling as most of the students have absolutely NO work ethic. and at the end of the day horses are hard work!
		
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I have also done assessments for GSCE PE horse riding and have a VERY difference judgement!!  It was a total farce! The kids school teacher gave me an oficial list of requirements that the child had to be able to do and I had to mark it 0-10.  These were basic things like mount, dismount, walk, trot, canter etc.  However the exam board (I did ask) did not give any clarification of what was a 0 - 10!  I assumed 0 meant unable to do it, but what is 10? Riding in an outline?  Perfect position?  Or simply not falling off?!!!!

To me it was a total joke that it could be considered a GCSE!


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## LEC (8 February 2012)

We offer equine FD and ND at college. As another poster mentions they are not offered in schools and we use the FD for students who do not get the grades they need (most often maths or english at C and above GCSE) and yet want to go on and do further education. The FD which is a level 2 is most often used as a pathway for the L3 ND.


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## *hic* (9 February 2012)

ofcourseyoucan said:



			having done several 0 level assessments in horse riding as part of a PE o level the standard required is quite high. (just above PC B level) but yes i do agree that it really shouldnt count towards an acedemic result. tho it should qualify for some recognition.
As an employer, the standard of FE students who have an equine degree is sadly appalling as most of the students have absolutely NO work ethic. and at the end of the day horses are hard work!
		
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*chokes*

Above PC B level Good God it must vary over the country then. Some of the videos that are submitted are hair raising, yet the 'riders' still seem to pass!


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## Kat (9 February 2012)

Shilasdair said:



			Schools can't use FD or ND to skew league tables - unless they have a yard full of horses and trained instructors.
S 

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I would imagine that if they want to offer Horse Care they would have to send the pupils to a college, like they do for hair dressing and other things that they aren't equipped for. 

As I said the main thrust of the story was more subjects that the schools can teach "in house" and can railroad students into if they think it will make their results look better. Business Studies is the one that they were pressing students into at the school my friend taught at, but I think they had some IT type courses too.


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## Shilasdair (11 February 2012)

Kat said:



			I would imagine that if they want to offer Horse Care they would have to send the pupils to a college, like they do for hair dressing and other things that they aren't equipped for. 

As I said the main thrust of the story was more subjects that the schools can teach "in house" and can railroad students into if they think it will make their results look better. Business Studies is the one that they were pressing students into at the school my friend taught at, but I think they had some IT type courses too.
		
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But the reality is that to get funding for a FD, the student must study full time.
There is therefore no advantage to the college to give some school a proportion of the fee that they would otherwise claim all of.
S


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## kiritiger (11 February 2012)

Dee O'Dorant said:



			*chokes*

Above PC B level Good God it must vary over the country then. Some of the videos that are submitted are hair raising, yet the 'riders' still seem to pass!
		
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I didn't even submit a video for mine, all I had to do was give my instructor's number (with her permission of course) to my PE teacher. I have no idea to this day whether my PE teacher spoke to her or if he did, what she said to him but we were allowed to see our score sheets for all of our sports and I got 100% for riding. I have to say though that the written exam was my hardest GCSE, probably nearly as hard as AS level Biology.


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## emma.is (11 February 2012)

At our school all day on a Wednesday we have an 'option' this is either an AS course or one of the BTECS that are worth four GCSES. 

I do an AS course, but there are some students who do Land and Environment, sport, art and loads of other ones. 

Can imagine that a school would easily be able to send a class to a yard for a day to obtain their horse care qualification.

All the courses we do on Wednesdays are aimed at 16-18 year old students and because we do it over two years the students would be able to get the yard hours done easily.

I'm in year 11 right now, but the current year 10 haven't been offered this because the government have put something in place so students have to take a languages and a humanities so there is no time in school to spend five hours on something else.

And yes, I go to one of those new Academy things, so it might not be the same for the older schools.


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## zaminda (12 February 2012)

I feel it should be something for after GCSE's and not equivilent too. Not everyone as pointed out has the aptitude for academics, however, I feel that they need to be a ble to read and write in order to work with horses. Sadly this is not always the case, someone I knew went to the Northern Racing College, and was surprised when they gave everyone a literacy test. She was even more surprised that some of the people there couldn't even spell there own name!


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