# URGENT: INFO REQUIRED:BOUGHT A HORSE FROM TELFORD, SHROPSHIRE, THAT WAS MISDESCRIBED?



## essexgirl (16 February 2013)

I am urgently appealing for information of anyone that has had any dealings with a horse dealer posing as private seller in Deep Fields, Telford. Please pm me with any info. A horse has been sold that is beyond dangerous, is lame and passport has been tampered with. The horse was sold as a genuine allrounder and safe for novices. The horse is also at least 6 years older than advertised. Seller will not take calls, hangs up, and I am now assiting Trading Standards with their enquiries. Thanks


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## Passtheshampoo (16 February 2013)

Sorry to hear you've been done. Get printouts of any adverts they have on the internet, may help to prove they are selling more than a private seller would. Google their tel no may throw up other adverts. Let us know how you get on. I had something similar happen to me some years ago. Was sold a dangerous pony described as suitable for a novice !


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## pixie (16 February 2013)

Was it vetted, and did you get a receipt when you paid for it?
Do you have a copy of the advert?


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## thatsmygirl (16 February 2013)

Wasn't the horse tried?
Wasn't it vetted with bloods?
So what's the story? Why is it so different to the horse that was tried and vetted


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## essexgirl (16 February 2013)

Thanks, we have all the adverts and have found 7 so far. It is so frustrating when they will not answer the phone and just hang up. The horse is so dangerous, it has bolted in hand, gone throw fences, bronced someone off and kicked them whilst on the floor. Not to mention names in passport have been scrubbed out with permanant market, to top things off the so called 'novice ride' is crippled lame


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## thatsmygirl (16 February 2013)

So was he vetted?
Didn't anybody look at his passport before brought him? 
This does sound a bit odd


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## Passtheshampoo (16 February 2013)

Get a letter sent to them first thing Monday by recorded delivery outlining what's wrong with the horse and tell them you want a full refund or you will take further action. Give them a short period of time to reply. Use the usual phrases such as Not Fit For Purpose etc and despite what they are saying they are Dealers due to the number of horses they are selling so Sale of Goods Act can be quoted. Consumer Direct should be able to give you correct wording for your letter.
I'm presuming the horse may have been drugged when you tried it or had been worked hard/not given water to subdue it. Are you an experience horse person/ did you take someone knowledgeable with you to view it? Is there a possibility it's just very unsettled and now lame due to going through a fence?


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## essexgirl (16 February 2013)

Horse was not tried as it was advertised as a bombproof horse for hacking, lady has MS so cannot travel far. Horse not vetted. Have receipt and copy of advert. Horse is 1 hand bigger than described, older, lame and naughty. She is silly for buying blind, but still this is fraud and they knew exactly what they were doing.


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## Slightly Foxed (16 February 2013)

Oh, come on...


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## sophiebailey (16 February 2013)

I live in Telford, if you PM me a name I might be able to help. I've not heard of Deep Fields though, where in Telford is it supposed to be?


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## jnb (16 February 2013)

I live in this area and don't know exactly where it is ( does that make sense?) 
Can you PM me more details please? I might be able to find out more for you


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## Scotslad23 (16 February 2013)

essexgirl said:



			Horse was not tried as it was advertised as a bombproof horse for hacking, lady has MS so cannot travel far. Horse not vetted. Have receipt and copy of advert. Horse is 1 hand bigger than described, older, lame and naughty. She is silly for buying blind, but still this is fraud and they knew exactly what they were doing.
		
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What a shame the buying didnt know what they were doing!!


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## willowblack (16 February 2013)

I am from Telford too, not heard of deep dales.....


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## willowblack (16 February 2013)

Or fields lol


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## essexgirl (16 February 2013)

TF4 3EL is the area


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## L&M (16 February 2013)

OP is either a 'troll', or just a plain silly for buying untried/un-vetted, regardless of the circumstances. If the rider suffers from MS surely that would be even more reason to do the above?!

You will have to prove it was a dealer, then you may have some recourse through Trading Standards. However I imagine this may be a lengthy and costly process, and have no idea how you would go about it.

Either the BHS (if gold member) or the CAB may be able to advise.


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## willowblack (16 February 2013)

Deepfields road, dawley try posting on Telford horse sales on fb, they might help you


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## zigzag (16 February 2013)

Wouldn't think you have any comeback... Buyer beware..


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## thatsmygirl (16 February 2013)

I'm sorry but this was completely stupid, if the lady has MS and you were after a safe hack than it should of been of upmost importants to have made sure this horse was suitable. They/u however only have their selfs to blame I'm afraid and couldn't of been any more stupid if u tried.


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## HappyHooves (16 February 2013)

Do you have a description of the horse - mare/gelding, height, colour, name or name in passport, microchip????? A little thin on info if you want people to identify the horse. 

If it was advertised as a private seller, how do you now know its a dealer? 

If you have any phone numbers then google and take hard copies of anything that you find. A dealer I believe is a nyone shown to sell more than 3 or 4 horses a year. Trading Standards should know this. 

Whilst is is very sad that anyone could sell a horse to anyone knowing the damage that it could do, and especially to someone with MS, I do wonder at the sanity of buying a horse, unseen and unvettted just because someone unknown says its bombproof. I would have thought that it was even more necessary to take these simple precautions. I fear that the person has limited the action ( legal) that they can take because of this.

And what about the poor old horse? No doubt it will simply do the rounds for awhile before it really hurts someone, or is the person with MS keeping it and having it pts or retrained?


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## Slightly Foxed (16 February 2013)

Telford is quite famous for Ironbridge is is not?

A subtle troll? Or am I too harsh?


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## essexgirl (16 February 2013)

I can assure you I am not a troll, Why would I want to waste my time? I just asking for anyone with similar experiences.....I am not the buyer, I am an experienced horse woman assisting the buyer in getting justice. Yes silly buying blind, but it does happen. Many people buy furniture from the internet, there is no excuse when it arrives broken or misdecribed! These people are criminals and need to be prosecuted


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## Slightly Foxed (16 February 2013)

Ok, I apologise. Not from that area I'm afraid, good luck.


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## essexgirl (16 February 2013)

Happy hooves, the sellers have various adverts connected to their telephone numbers. 7 at the moment. All adverts read the same i.e sad sale due to change in circumstances. Five star home a must. In my book this is deception. The registered first owner has been contacted to no avail


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## essexgirl (16 February 2013)

Thank you slighted foxed.  I am going to post on facebook pages too. Is there anyone from that area that can give me some facebook pages that may be useful? The more evidence we have the better chance we have of saving others from this terrible mess


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## jnb (16 February 2013)

Can you post a link the advert (s) please so I can take a look - OHs dad lives very close by


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## thatsmygirl (16 February 2013)

Happyhooves the horse may be fine if the people were stupid enough to buy unseen / untried etc I would question their capabilities to look after said horse or knowledge to know what they are doing full stop.
I do feel for the horses in cases like this which is how I came across most of my horses, I don't buy I get the so called nutty or head case horses only to find out 99% of the time it's the owners. 

You can not describe buying a horse who has their own personality and needs to be suited to the rider as the same as a piece of funiture. I'm shocked


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## jnb (16 February 2013)

Other Facebook pages:
canter Corner
The New Shropshire Riders
MARC
MIDARC


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## willowblack (16 February 2013)

Telford horse sales on fb


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## essexgirl (16 February 2013)

thatsmygirl, believe me I have been around horses now for 30 years, having competed to a high level. I have this horse on livery with me in a professional yard, I have never known/seen a horse with behaviour like this in all my life! It is damn right evil, we are not just typical 'novice numpties'. I do not expect a 13 year old cobby 'happy hacking super safe horse' to bronc when the rider get on to the point them eat dirt, and then it comes back to kick, no matter what the circumstances


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## essexgirl (16 February 2013)

thanks so much for the PM's so far, please keep them coming


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## Polos Mum (16 February 2013)

If you were friends with the buyer and have 30 years of horse experience why did you let them buy a horse un tried and un vetted from a dealer that nobody knew!  

Put the horse in your box and take it back, post the passport through the door and write it off to experience.  Or if you really care then have the poor thing PTS and next time go and look at the horse for your friend if she can't travel!


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## lastchancer (16 February 2013)

essexgirl said:



			I can assure you I am not a troll, Why would I want to waste my time? I just asking for anyone with similar experiences.....I am not the buyer, I am an experienced horse woman assisting the buyer in getting justice. Yes silly buying blind, but it does happen. Many people buy furniture from the internet, there is no excuse when it arrives broken or misdecribed! These people are criminals and need to be prosecuted
		
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Yes there is no excuse for selling a dangerous horse to a novice unseen. 
HOWEVER, Darwin's law will catch up with the unwary and the foolish. As an experienced horsewoman did you not tell this person she must be out of her mind to buy unseen?

Or have you just strayed out from under a bridge this cold, dark, evening.


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## s4sugar (16 February 2013)

If the horse was purchased unseen from a trader remind Trading Standards of the Distance Selling Regulations which gve slightly more protection than a normal sale as long at the purchase was less than 30 days ago.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theoneshow/consumer/2009/08/27/get_your_refund_distance_selli.html


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## Barney&Buzz (16 February 2013)

Trip Trap


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## weebarney (16 February 2013)

essexgirl said:



			thatsmygirl, believe me I have been around horses now for 30 years, having competed to a high level. I have this horse on livery with me in a professional yard, I have never known/seen a horse with behaviour like this in all my life! It is damn right evil, we are not just typical 'novice numpties'. I do not expect a 13 year old cobby 'happy hacking super safe horse' to bronc when the rider get on to the point them eat dirt, and then it comes back to kick, no matter what the circumstances
		
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Sorry but no horse is evil. Its obviously in pain or suffering psychologically.


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## Marydoll (16 February 2013)

Let me get this right, you bought a horse from a someone ......
Unseen 
Untried 
Unvetted 
And youre really surprised someone has duped you ? 
As much as we'd all love to believe everyone selling horses is honest and truthful, a quick flick through the posts in here will tell you otherwise.
If you didnt know what you were doing, you really shouldve got help.
As for getting your money back, i hope you get it, i really do, but as many posts on here will show it can be a long hard struggle and few succeed


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## Beausmate (16 February 2013)

I'm under the impression that the op is the owner of the yard that this horse is on, not the purchaser of this horse and that the horse's owner is one of her clients.  Is that right, op?


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## essexgirl (16 February 2013)

The buyers came to me for help after the purchase, I have had the horse in my yard in livery and have had to refuse to have it any longer, the horse have serious issues... Listen guys, I am not asking to be slated, or a troll causing trouble, merely asking for others in the same boat, with issues with the same people, to come forward. Trading Standards keen for more info. The 'gentleman' is also a car dealer so is well known to TS for various horse and non horse offences...


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## Marydoll (16 February 2013)

Tbh i think theyre on a sticky wicket, i really dont think theres much you can do other than trading standards


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## essexgirl (16 February 2013)

No Mary Doll, me neither, that is why I am appealing for anyone else that have been scammed by these people. These people need to be stopped before they take lives of inncocent people. I am not looking for sympathy, just factual info that can get the justice these people deserve. The police have looked into the passport situation too, and have take copies of the passport etc, which is a start. Why would anyone feel the need to black out names and addresses for no reason unless you had something to hide. Awful low life people..


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## Red30563 (16 February 2013)

There is a precedent for Trading Standards taking action against dealers when horses are mis-sold...

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/397/153455.html

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/397/255625.html

Your friend's circumstances may be different, of course, but the above cases show that it is not always just 'caveat emptor'. The cases seem to show that horses must be as described and fit for purpose.


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## essexgirl (16 February 2013)

Thanks red30563, I think our first milestone is to find others in the same boat, and get TS on the case.


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## Mearas (16 February 2013)

essexgirl said:



			No Mary Doll, me neither, that is why I am appealing for anyone else that have been scammed by these people. These people need to be stopped before they take lives of inncocent people. I am not looking for sympathy, just factual info that can get the justice these people deserve. The police have looked into the passport situation too, and have take copies of the passport etc, which is a start. Why would anyone feel the need to black out names and addresses for no reason unless you had something to hide. Awful low life people..
		
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Totally agree Essex Girl. In the beginning I am sure we have all made mistakes but these people do need to be stopped. Many responsible breeders/owners need to reassure themselves that their horses are going to a good home before they will part with them so it is not just a one way thing.


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## Adopter (16 February 2013)

Essexgirl I think you are doing a great job helping someone who has made a mistake. I am so sorry to read about the plight of the horse and its owner a really sad situation.

 Although MS is a neuro illness that affects people physically, it also often affect people's thought processes and people do things that seem strange or unwise to others, and you say the person may have been too trusting because physically to go and look at horse was too much.  I don't think they deserved to be scammed and I hope that you are able to get some recompence and support.


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## Bobbly (16 February 2013)

Is there any chance the the passport issuing office would have record of the previous ownership that has been blacked out? Maybe TS would have some clout in finding this information?


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## JanetGeorge (16 February 2013)

OP - I'm guessing from your username that you (and your client) are in Essex.  You would therefore need to deal through Essex Trading Standards who may - or may not - be particularly helpful.  It might be useful to you to know that Shropshire Trading Standards have run a couple of cases against horse dealers in other areas (I was their expert witness for a couple) so they have a clue or two now!

If you want to PM me the name of the seller (and his/her phone numbers if you have them) I'd be pleased to help!  I'm not very far from Telford.


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## essexgirl (16 February 2013)

Thanks guys, I will continue to fight for what is right. These people are not human beings, that are criminals. Not only is this deception, it is putting lives in danger. I would put it on par with selling a cut and shut car, dangerous as well as deception.


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## circuit dancer (16 February 2013)

I know what you are saying about fighting for what's right.   But please do something to help this poor horses.   Find out why it is the way it is, get a vet for full check over and as well as help the horse it could help your case, or just pts. Be awful if it went back. No one will know where it will end up


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## Elsiecat (16 February 2013)

I'm sorry but no horse is 'evil.' I'm also thinking you'll be hard pushed to prove beyond doubt that this behaviour hasn't just started since being with its new owner. 

I'd chalk this one down to experience and send it back, sell with problems known or PTS.


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## Delicious_D (16 February 2013)

Barney&Buzz said:



			Trip Trap
		
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oh the irony....


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## essexgirl (16 February 2013)

You are mssing the point of the post Elsiecat. I am not asking for advice on the horse. I am seeking info of anyone else that have bought from these people. Thanks


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## essexgirl (16 February 2013)

Did anyone know anyone that bought this horse?


http://horseyard.co.uk/ads/all-rounder-horse-6-yrs-8-mths-15-0-hh-appaloosa/


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## Elsiecat (16 February 2013)

You're missing the point of my post. I'm saying that you'd be hard pushed to prove that this horse hasn't just started behaving this way since the new owner. Thanks.


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## sophiebailey (16 February 2013)

This isn't a troll post, OP (or OP's friends) are posting on my local horsey facebook groups also asking for the same information, seems to be a genuine question.


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## essexgirl (16 February 2013)

we don't need to prove this, we have been in contact with old owners who gave the horse away due to the issues. Also various other people who have been duped by these people are coming forward. I am only trying to gather info, not looking for an argument. If everyone didn't challenge these people, and just move on like you are suggesting, they will continue to get away with it. Why should they?


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## essexgirl (16 February 2013)

Thanks SophieBailey. Like I have said, and will say again, please I am not a troll (I have better things to do at 11.35pm on a Saturday night!) Looking for genuine info please!


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## flowerlady (17 February 2013)

OP good on you.  I hope you manage to get the owner some help with trading standards.  Let us know the outcome.


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## Shysmum (17 February 2013)

hmmmm.


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## YasandCrystal (17 February 2013)

essexgirl said:



			I can assure you I am not a troll, Why would I want to waste my time? I just asking for anyone with similar experiences.....I am not the buyer, I am an experienced horse woman assisting the buyer in getting justice. Yes silly buying blind, but it does happen. Many people buy furniture from the internet, there is no excuse when it arrives broken or misdecribed! These people are criminals and need to be prosecuted
		
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The thing is it is silly buyers like your friend that fuel the bad dealer market 

Frankly if the horse is hopping lame - why has anyone tried to ride it? Wasn't that obvious? I would bolt too if I was in pain and someone tried to ride me.


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## Elsiecat (17 February 2013)

Ditto yasandcrystal..  Something doesn't ring right about all this, sorry, but it doesn't.


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## Polos Mum (17 February 2013)

TBH I think you'll struggle with trading standards as prescident for buying horses is that you at least see them before you buy them - they are different from flat packed furniture I'm afraid. 

If I was an honest private seller and you wanted to buy my horse without seeing him I wouldn't let you! 
If I was an iffy dealer and you called and said you wanted to buy x horse, you didn't want to see it first, you didn't want to vet it and a cheque (including transport costs) was in the post I'd have probably sent you any old c@*p I had lying around as you're obviously mad as a badger !


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## essexgirl (17 February 2013)

Like I said; I did not buy this and opinions is not what I wanted from the post. Just people to pm with any info on these people. Thanks


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## el_Snowflakes (17 February 2013)

Polos Mum said:



			If you were friends with the buyer and have 30 years of horse experience why did you let them buy a horse un tried and un vetted from a dealer that nobody knew!  

Put the horse in your box and take it back, post the passport through the door and write it off to experience.  Or if you really care then have the poor thing PTS and next time go and look at the horse for your friend if she can't travel!
		
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this ^^^^


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## luckyoldme (17 February 2013)

As i read this post essex girl is trying to help a novice who bought unseen. 
These dealers know more about people than they do about horses , they know who they can try it on with and who they can t . 
As for trading standards..they are practically useless. I know this because i bought a horse from a very naughty dealer who was the subject of a bbc programme.
Best of luck Essexgirl!


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## essexgirl (17 February 2013)

Thanks


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## Cinnamontoast (17 February 2013)

Delicious_D said:



			oh the irony.... 

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Quite! Does no-one else know who this is? Wonder if she's had ay accidents recently?  Her fame is legendary, don't think I'd even joined this all happened.


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## Elsiecat (17 February 2013)

^eh? Fill me in?


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## Wagtail (17 February 2013)

cinnamontoast said:



			Quite! Does no-one else know who this is? Wonder if she's had ay accidents recently?  Her fame is legendary, don't think I'd even joined this all happened.
		
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Who? The OP or the dealer?


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## Cinnamontoast (17 February 2013)

Barney and Buzz. Biggest troll ever and now has the cheek to accuse others! 

 I think the OP sounds genuine.


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## Wagtail (17 February 2013)

cinnamontoast said:



			Barney and Buzz. Biggest troll ever and now has the cheek to accuse others! 

 I think the OP sounds genuine.
		
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Oh I see. Get you now. I'm a bit slow today.


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## TrasaM (17 February 2013)

Sadly there are trusting people who do buy horses without checking them first. You just have to sound genuine enough with the excuses, tweak the heartstrings and someone who's desperate enough to buy a safe trusty horse will lap it up.

OP. Good luck with tracing others who've been scammed by this individual. 
Friend bought a horse without vetting and without a sensible person to guide her. She's now got a lovEly little horse with SI issues and stifles locking plus quite a few bruises from when hes bucked her off because she didnt realise what the problem was. Hes now got a long road to recovery ( fingers crossed) to get him well enough to ride. Or a very expensive pet


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## Passtheshampoo (17 February 2013)

If you can prove they are dealers their advert for the horse bought is part of the sales contract so the description must fit. Get the owners to start the process tomorrow with sending recorded delivery letter. I had similar prob a few years ago and I did successfully get pony returned and my money back as the pony was downright dangerous and they were dealers posing as a private sale ( although we did view and try the pony which behaved that day !)
You can gather info from any other duped purchasers but contact with the seller needs to happen sooner than later.


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## HappyHooves (17 February 2013)

why don't you put a post  here?

..https://www.facebook.com/pages/Horse-Community-Scams-uncoverdconmen-exposed/182385158505335


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## Happytohack (17 February 2013)

OP. I am really sorry that the buyer of this horse has been well & truly caught out.  Unfortunately at the end of the day, it is unlikely that there will be much they can do.  To all those who have had a go at the buyer for buying unseen - have they forgotten all,the threads on this forum asking if any one has bought a horse unseen and all the positive stories?


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## horseydebbie (18 February 2013)

I think this rogue dealer should be named and shamed.


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## BBH (18 February 2013)

I think its a very sad indictment of the horse industry tbh in that the number of people on here who are blaming the purchaser rather than feeling outraged that a dealer has done this is shocking. 

Yes in hindsight it is unfortunate that someone has bought sight unseen but perhaps if the industry got some teeth and outed these dealers then more people would be encouraged to participate in horse ownership and get involved with the hobby / sport without fear of being ripped off.

Good on the OP for not just putting this down to experience and wanting to sort it out.


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## essexgirl (18 February 2013)

Thanks everyone, I have posted to as many fb sites as possible


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## horseydebbie (18 February 2013)

Bump


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## jhoward (18 February 2013)

cinnamontoast said:



			Quite! Does no-one else know who this is? Wonder if she's had ay accidents recently?  Her fame is legendary, don't think I'd even joined this all happened.
		
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DR hun...


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## essexgirl (21 February 2013)

bump


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## Marydoll (21 February 2013)

Oh really the infamous one !! Roamin in the gloamin on a dun horse lol


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## dressedkez (21 February 2013)

essexgirl said:



			I can assure you I am not a troll, Why would I want to waste my time? I just asking for anyone with similar experiences.....I am not the buyer, I am an experienced horse woman assisting the buyer in getting justice. Yes silly buying blind, but it does happen. Many people buy furniture from the internet, there is no excuse when it arrives broken or misdecribed! These people are criminals and need to be prosecuted
		
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Essex girl? Or just blonde? What a mad post!!


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## rowan666 (22 February 2013)

I recently bought a horse unseen and untried as a project with a remarkably similar story to this from doncaster area but original sellar was honest about the situaion and horse did seem 'mad' when I collected her but since being at mine shes an absolute darling and cant really fault her, my point being maybe the hprse is as described its just not happy or settled where it is! Cant it be turned away ffpr a month nefore being retrained or moved to an enviroment better suited to it before being written off? Poor horse. Dnt think legally the buyer has a leg to stand on sorry


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## Oldenburg27 (22 February 2013)

I have Pm'ed essex girl but not heard anything..


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## horseydebbie (26 February 2013)

Has this been resolved yet?


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## Lesley Amanda (1 April 2013)

Hi all,this sounds like a horse I owned last year and have been searching for,the dealer that sold Stanley said he would make sure he would go to a nice home and pass mt contact details on ,since then I have been looking for him and recently heard that he has been passed around from pillar to post ,and has developed behavioural issues due to his ordeals,a horse is not evil,it's because of circumstances,events etc that has led this horse to miss trust humans,he certainly was'nt like this when I had him,I bought him as a happy hacker and to get my confidence back which is what he did,he wasa perfect gentle giant,loved people,children,and mixed with Shetlands sheep mares& geldings,so what on earth has happened to him? I know this was my horse as I recognise names and comments that have been posted on this forum,I would do anything to get him back home but have been told he may have been pts,how really sad that Stanley last few months have ended like this, am heart broken and praying for a miracle that he may be still alive somewhere,


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## hihosilver (1 April 2013)

Think that this is genuine. However why are people advising OP to send it back?? What a cruel and irresponsible thing to do. The horse needs to be PTS or at least have a vet check. A horse acting like this may have a brain tumour.....


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## MerrySherryRider (1 April 2013)

Lesley Amanda said:



			Hi all,this sounds like a horse I owned last year and have been searching for,the dealer that sold Stanley said he would make sure he would go to a nice home and pass mt contact details on ,since then I have been looking for him and recently heard that he has been passed around from pillar to post ,and has developed behavioural issues due to his ordeals,a horse is not evil,it's because of circumstances,events etc that has led this horse to miss trust humans,he certainly was'nt like this when I had him,I bought him as a happy hacker and to get my confidence back which is what he did,he wasa perfect gentle giant,loved people,children,and mixed with Shetlands sheep mares& geldings,so what on earth has happened to him? I know this was my horse as I recognise names and comments that have been posted on this forum,I would do anything to get him back home but have been told he may have been pts,how really sad that Stanley last few months have ended like this, am heart broken and praying for a miracle that he may be still alive somewhere,
		
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Do you have a photo ?


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## luckyoldme (1 April 2013)

for god s sake. Essexgirl Is a livery yard owner and the client has brought a horse to her livery after falling victim to someone who can spot people like her a mile off.
Why all the awful replies?
The type of trader who pulls stunts like this knows more about people than they do about horses..... They would know from one phonecall just how much they could get away with.
Yes Essex there are other people out there such as myself who are not afraid to admit we were totally stupid when buying our first horses. Mine came good in the end luckily enough for me ...but I could have been seriously injured.
 I won t offend you by offering advice on how to deal with this horse but do try google for rogue horse dealer bishop aukland, this is a guy who has been successfully prosecuted.


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## Lesley Amanda (1 April 2013)

Yes but not sure how to attatch


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## Lesley Amanda (1 April 2013)

I just wish I hadn't given him to a dealer to find him a home, that was last oct time and none of this would have happened,I had put him on face book horsemart etc trying to find out where he had gone


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## 1stclassalan (1 April 2013)

I've only just dropped into this little "friendly discussion"  scanning all the issues - this is what I see.

Although any buyer stands to be royally shafted when handing over money without sufficient checks - it doesn't make it right, proper or something that can be just forgotten in every instance.

If you do want to make a fuss - don't expect to get your money back - you are only kicking a box around the yard trying to rid yourself of the anger of being stuffed! Trading standards are all toothless t**ts and there's no one else to help unless you have a bottomless wallet for legal action. Mind you, you could just find the seller one dark night and impress upon them the health benefits of returning one's money forthwith but chances are you will not have sufficient standing for this action if you're on here moaning.

There is no such thing as an EVIL horse - they are trusting herbivores - with teeth at one end and flying hooves all round for the unwary - if anyone doesn't know that after 30 years of working with them - they ought to try something less demanding like embroidery.

My own dear wondermare could easily be described as "bombproof" for 99% of the time - she actually gave rides to mentally subnormal people when still a school horse and seemed to know to be on best behavior. For the other 1% she could and did, put the fear of the lord into experienced Horseys and she saved two of these little outbursts for my less than confident missus and put her off for life ( I got the ride so no big deal  )


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## MerrySherryRider (1 April 2013)

Lesley Amanda said:



			I just wish I hadn't given him to a dealer to find him a home, that was last oct time and none of this would have happened,I had put him on face book horsemart etc trying to find out where he had gone
		
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Can you put up a link to the photo on facebook ?


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## MerrySherryRider (1 April 2013)

essexgirl said:



			I am urgently appealing for information of anyone that has had any dealings with a horse dealer posing as private seller in Deep Fields, Telford. Please pm me with any info. A horse has been sold that is beyond dangerous, is lame and passport has been tampered with. The horse was sold as a genuine allrounder and safe for novices. The horse is also at least 6 years older than advertised. Seller will not take calls, hangs up, and I am now assiting Trading Standards with their enquiries. Thanks
		
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Have you got a photo ?


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## SatsumaGirl (1 April 2013)

Lesley Amanda;

I'm guessing this is your chap? 
http://www.preloved.co.uk/adverts/show/107750281/wanted-information-on-stanley.html

horserider;

Link to ad of original horse on page 6 of this thread.


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## Darremi (1 April 2013)

s4sugar said:



			If the horse was purchased unseen from a trader remind Trading Standards of the Distance Selling Regulations which gve slightly more protection than a normal sale as long at the purchase was less than 30 days ago.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theoneshow/consumer/2009/08/27/get_your_refund_distance_selli.html

Click to expand...

Distance Selling Regs only apply for contracts between a supplier and consumer, so would not apply to a private sale. Furthermore, the regs require an "organised distance sales or service provision scheme" which does not arise in this situation.


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## s4sugar (1 April 2013)

Darremi said:



			Distance Selling Regs only apply for contracts between a supplier and consumer, so would not apply to a private sale. Furthermore, the regs require an "organised distance sales or service provision scheme" which does not arise in this situation.
		
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This purchase was from a dealer.............


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## FairyLights (1 April 2013)

SatsumaGirl said:



			Lesley Amanda;

I'm guessing this is your chap? 
http://www.preloved.co.uk/adverts/show/107750281/wanted-information-on-stanley.html

horserider;

Link to ad of original horse on page 6 of this thread. 

Click to expand...

Stanley looks a sweetie


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## smellsofhorse (1 April 2013)

An up date from the OP would be good.
Can anyone pm them?

I'm in my phone and it never seems to send!

Ps. I hope Stanley is found save and well.


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## EAST KENT (1 April 2013)

oooh,look it is April Fool`s Day


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## lea840 (1 April 2013)

Who actually went to see the horse and brought it to your yard?


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## MerrySherryRider (1 April 2013)

SatsumaGirl said:



			Lesley Amanda;

I'm guessing this is your chap? 
http://www.preloved.co.uk/adverts/show/107750281/wanted-information-on-stanley.html

horserider;

Link to ad of original horse on page 6 of this thread. 

Click to expand...

Thank you. couldn't get the first link to work earlier.
Stanley looks like a lovely chap. Hope you find him soon.


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## Lesley Amanda (1 April 2013)

blucanoo1990 said:



			An up date from the OP would be good.
Can anyone pm them?

I'm in my phone and it never seems to send!

Ps. I hope Stanley is found save and well.
		
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Thankyou but have been told he has been pts,and another person reckons he could still be alive!


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## Shysmum (1 April 2013)

I hate shouty titled threads.


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## Lesley Amanda (1 April 2013)

horserider said:



			Thank you. couldn't get the first link to work earlier.
Stanley looks like a lovely chap. Hope you find him soon.
		
Click to expand...

That's not Stanley above,their are pictures of him on pre loved ,Facebook and horsemart


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## tessybear (1 April 2013)

-peeps in , nervy glance about before backing out- 

Something doesn't feel right here


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## MerrySherryRider (1 April 2013)

Lesley Amanda said:



			That's not Stanley above,their are pictures of him on pre loved ,Facebook and horsemart
		
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Confused now. Isn't Stanley, the coloured Cob X Shire the horse you are looking for ?


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## Lesley Amanda (1 April 2013)

horserider said:



			Confused now. Isn't Stanley, the coloured Cob X Shire the horse you are looking for ?
		
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No that's not him above,he was a skewbold x shire,have a look on preloved,"looking for Stanley"but all the comments on this forum relate to him for e.g he was sold from Telford and the lady who had him in Telford confirmed with me his identity by picture,from Telford he went to some one called Debbie and from Debbie he went to person in Essex, if I can I will try and put a pic of him on here,


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## SatsumaGirl (1 April 2013)

Lesley Amanda said:



			No that's not him above,he was a skewbold x shire,have a look on preloved,"looking for Stanley"but all the comments on this forum relate to him for e.g he was sold from Telford and the lady who had him in Telford confirmed with me his identity by picture,from Telford he went to some one called Debbie and from Debbie he went to person in Essex, if I can I will try and put a pic of him on here,
		
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I'm even more confused now. 

The link I posted above is a skewbald Shire x cob. 
http://www.preloved.co.uk/adverts/show/107750281/wanted-information-on-stanley.html

I have found this ad too, but it's the same horse... 
http://www.preloved.co.uk/adverts/show/107540225/looking-for-stanley.html


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## Darremi (2 April 2013)

s4sugar said:



			This purchase was from a dealer.............
		
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The OP mentioned that she thought it was a dealer purporting to sell privately, in which case it would have to be proved that he was a dealer, which is not a foregone conclusion. Nevertheless the Regs would still not apply because of the 'scheme' requirement. I am afraid the Regs just do not apply to this type of situation, they apply to protect consumers entering into contracts in which they are not able to view the goods beforehand because of the specific nature of the 'distance' sale. In this situation the buyer was able to view the goods but chose not to.


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## Pippity (2 April 2013)

The advert on page six of this forum isn't Stanley, and doesn't seem to be the horse originally posted about. I think it was just HHO going off at a tangent.


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## Lesley Amanda (2 April 2013)

Pippity said:



			The advert on page six of this forum isn't Stanley, and doesn't seem to be the horse originally posted about. I think it was just HHO going off at a tangent. 

Click to expand...

No your wrong here,the original advert posted "horse bought from Telford misdescribed" is about stanley


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## Adopter (2 April 2013)

I found your preloved advert and what you have discovered so far seems to match the thread line on here.

I hope the OP logs in soon and sees your post so that you can find out what has happened, and confirm if it is the same horse.

http://www.preloved.co.uk/adverts/show/107540225/looking-for-stanley.html

I can understand how upset you must be to think the horse has changed so much, I have to agree with others and wonder if somewhere along the line he has been hurt and pain has caused the problems.


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## Lesley Amanda (2 April 2013)

Adopter said:



			I found your preloved advert and what you have discovered so far seems to match the thread line on here.

I hope the OP logs in soon and sees your post so that you can find out what has happened, and confirm if it is the same horse.

http://www.preloved.co.uk/adverts/show/107540225/looking-for-stanley.html

I can understand how upset you must be to think the horse has changed so much, I have to agree with others and wonder if somewhere along the line he has been hurt and pain has caused the problems.
		
Click to expand...

That's what I think,the problem now is a person he went to in Essex says he was put to sleep and another person is telling me she believes he is still alive ! Person in Essex has told me that when I asked Farringtons to find him a good home I gave up my rights to. Enquire about his future ! But rights or no rights is not relevant,it dose'nt stop you from enquiring about his welfare does it !


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## Adopter (2 April 2013)

It does seem odd that you are being told two different things.  If he has been pts then I can understand that you do need to know.

I do hope Essexgirl logs on soon so she can say whether or not the information you have is correct.

Feel for you, not knowing is so hard.


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## Lesley Amanda (2 April 2013)

Adopter said:



			It does seem odd that you are being told two different things.  If he has been pts then I can understand that you do need to know.

I do hope Essexgirl logs on soon so she can say whether or not the information you have is correct.

Feel for you, not knowing is so hard.
		
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Yea the Essex lady is pretty adamant that Stanley was pts,but then so is the other lady from Telford that he is still alive ! If he is still alive I want to try and get him back home,I must admit though when I originally bought stan from Farringtons last year,they were true to their word in saying he was a safe happy plod because that's what he was like when he was with me,for about 9mths,they then sold him to this lady in Telford,and so the story goes on,the poor horse he's probably lost all trust in humans and I feel so guilty about his ordeals,if I hadn't have given him up in the first place he wouldn't have been passed around


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## Lesley Amanda (2 April 2013)

Lesley Amanda said:



			Yea the Essex lady is pretty adamant that Stanley was pts,but then so is the other lady from Telford that he is still alive ! If he is still alive I want to try and get him back home,I must admit though when I originally bought stan from Farringtons last year,they were true to their word in saying he was a safe happy plod because that's what he was like when he was with me,for about 9mths,they then sold him to this lady in Telford,and so the story goes on,the poor horse he's probably lost all trust in humans and I feel so guilty about his ordeals,if I hadn't have given him up in the first place he wouldn't have been passed around
		
Click to expand...

He certainly was not "dangerous"or "evil"a comment made about him,he was such a gent,the most placid laid back horse I have ever ridden,enjoyed ha king around the village meeting people stopping and ha ing a munch on their hedges,would walk past water sprinklers,kites buses,every body loved him and would stop to give him a treat an he loved it!,so god knows what he's gone through. To turn into this " Bargy,evil dangerous horse "


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## Pippity (2 April 2013)

Lesley Amanda said:



			No your wrong here,the original advert posted "horse bought from Telford misdescribed" is about stanley
		
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Yes, but, as I said, the advert on page six of this thread, which someone had said was the original advert for Stanley - http://horseyard.co.uk/ads/all-rounder-horse-6-yrs-8-mths-15-0-hh-appaloosa/ - is not Stanley, unless Stanley spent a bit of time as an Appaloosa!


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## Aarrghimpossiblepony (2 April 2013)

To Lesley Amanda.

If the horse was so good why did you sell him after 9 months and back to a dealer?

From what you say a private sale would have been easy, that's the kind of safe hacker people are looking for.

Are you connected to the dealer?


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## WelshD (2 April 2013)

Pippity said:



			Yes, but, as I said, the advert on page six of this thread, which someone had said was the original advert for Stanley - http://horseyard.co.uk/ads/all-rounder-horse-6-yrs-8-mths-15-0-hh-appaloosa/ - is not Stanley, unless Stanley spent a bit of time as an Appaloosa!
		
Click to expand...

That was posted by the OP so could be another horse sold by the same person and the OP wanted to know if that sale had gone ok and that passport was ok maybe?

The original post said the passport for the cob had been altered so it could be from a horse who has died and used to sell one that didnt have a passport perhaps, the blacking out of previous owners would make sense then too


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## smellsofhorse (2 April 2013)

I also wonder if Stanley was so good.
Why did you sell him and now want him back.
Person had him just 9 months.

Going from home to home its no wonder he is confused and unsettled.

Something sounds fishy!


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## Lesley Amanda (2 April 2013)

Pippity said:



			Yes, but, as I said, the advert on page six of this thread, which someone had said was the original advert for Stanley - http://horseyard.co.uk/ads/all-rounder-horse-6-yrs-8-mths-15-0-hh-appaloosa/ - is not Stanley, unless Stanley spent a bit of time as an Appaloosa!
		
Click to expand...

Sorry I misunderstood what you were saying,Stanley is if still alive a 16"2 skewboldxshire! And at least 14yrs old


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## MagicMelon (2 April 2013)

essexgirl said:



			Horse was not tried as it was advertised as a bombproof horse for hacking, lady has MS so cannot travel far. Horse not vetted. Have receipt and copy of advert. Horse is 1 hand bigger than described, older, lame and naughty. She is silly for buying blind, but still this is fraud and they knew exactly what they were doing.
		
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Umm... good grief is all I can say!  She wasn't just silly, she was insane doing this.  I think you're really going to struggle here!


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## Lesley Amanda (2 April 2013)

blucanoo1990 said:



			I also wonder if Stanley was so good.
Why did you sell him and now want him back.
Person had him just 9 months.

Going from home to home its no wonder he is confused and unsettled.

Something sounds fishy!
		
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I was renting a small field which got flooded,and my two horses had to be rescued and had to move to a new livery yard which was a lot more expensive I couldn't afford to keep at that time two big horses,so I had to let Stanley go,I wasn't to know he was going to passed around all over the place! If I thought he was settled in a good home I wouldn't be trying to get him back,I only want him back to put an end to his ordeals,I want to put an end to the torment he must be going through which is only natural,and yes he was a good horse a real gent


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## Lesley Amanda (2 April 2013)

Aarrghimpossiblepony said:



			To Lesley Amanda.

If the horse was so good why did you sell him after 9 months and back to a dealer?

From what you say a private sale would have been easy, that's the kind of safe hacker people are looking for.

Are you connected to the dealer?
		
Click to expand...

No I am not connected to any dealer,you could say that I don't know the world of selling/buying horses ,although I have ridden horses all my life I have only ever had two,my first horse Tom is now retired after a long eventing career and I bought Stanley as a companion /happy hacker,yes I do. Wish now that I sold him to a private buyer but I honestly thought Farringtons would do this for me,am not ashamed to admit I am nieave when it comes to selling a horse and the world of dealers !


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## Lesley Amanda (2 April 2013)

WelshD said:



			That was posted by the OP so could be another horse sold by the same person and the OP wanted to know if that sale had gone ok and that passport was ok maybe?

The original post said the passport for the cob had been altered so it could be from a horse who has died and used to sell one that didnt have a passport perhaps, the blacking out of previous owners would make sense then too
		
Click to expand...

The passport I had for Stanley looked bran new and only had one previous owner,there was hardly any info in it except for his boosters etc that he had when with me,and an injection to help the allergy in his feathers, if he didn't have this treatment he would scratch his back legs like crazy against any fencing,people who I have managed to trace have all said he thrashed their fencing and I reckon that's what he was doing! If you imagine a tonne weight rubbing against a fence it's gonna get damaged !


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## ExpressPrincess (2 April 2013)

I have had recent dealings with the first "evil" horse of my life! Sold to a 14 year old girl as a first horse to start showjumping but he is seriously arrogant no pain or excuses just a horrid manipulative personality. 

He dumped his rider charging off and dragging her as she was trying to get on the other day I helped her catch it and put it on the lunge to chill out whist she got her breath back horse was standing very quietly no signs of distress I held the line with one hand and twisted the reins through the throat lash run up the stirrups ready to lunge just as I was finishing it suddenly spun around and double barrelled me right in my hip! I managed to keep on my feet and keep hold of the line and made him work but he kept charging in ears back teeth out then as I shooed him away (I had no lunge whip - so no antagonism!) he would spin round kicking out and galloping off, luckily I won the battle as I was so angry no way I was loosing! 

This is another dealers yard horse and certainly not a first horse to be handled by a child and yes he did pass a 5 stage vetting and they paid nearly 4k for it! Tut tut tut  there are some nasty beasts out there and sadly this is the kind of place they will end up!


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## smellsofhorse (2 April 2013)

I don't believe there are evil horses out there.

I'm pain, unhappy or miss understood. 
Not evil.


Even what express princess discribed, the horse had a reason.
Even is simply feeling fresh.
Excited or fed up!


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## Lesley Amanda (3 April 2013)

blucanoo1990 said:



			I don't believe there are evil horses out there.

I'm pain, unhappy or miss understood. 
Not evil.


Even what express princess discribed, the horse had a reason.
Even is simply feeling fresh.
Excited or fed up!
		
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Totally agree blucanoo


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