# Fat Competition Riders



## LEC (26 October 2010)

Possibly controversial  but I was running some unaff dressage a few weekends ago and watched a pair doing their test. It was shocking. The rider was far too fat. There was no balance, no core and it just looked absolutely awful. I spoke to the judge as I was collecting the score sheets and throughout the test the judge had written lost balance. This rider clearly knew what they were doing but their weight was really hindering their riding. 

Before you think what a cow I am, I would like to add that I am not in anyway a skinny mini being built like a brick outhouse and having the thighs of a rugby player. Size 12 to me is a far and distant dream! In April I hit 13 stone and was shocked by photos but more than that I could not ride properly as my thighs hindered my seat , I normally have great core strength but I was flabby, all over the place and my balance was not as good. After that I have made a huge effort to lose the weight, get fitter and my riding is better as a result though I seem to have ruined my best breeches by squeezing my lardy arse into them! 

So do you think instructors should be harsher and point some of these things out? Are we in a society now that tries to soothe too much? If you are entering a competition to be judged on your riding would you accept these comments? How can we educate riders better as this problem will surely only keep on growing? Thoughts?


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## Lisamd (26 October 2010)

I'm possibly not going to comment on other riders weight but i too agree that i felt more 'together' and balanced when i was a dress size smaller (was 14 now 16) i have evented this year and produced 2 youngsters so on the face of it, i'm 'quite' fit but know i could ride more effectively if i was a bit lighter and not built like a show cob! 
This winter is going to be fun - i want to be a size 12/14 for the start of the 2011 season as i have 2 to event...


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## KatB (26 October 2010)

I agree with you, I have no problem with bigger riders as long as they are truly able to balance themselves and not hinder the horse. I too am not a skinny person, but make a real effort to stay fit to ride, and am very aware of how my weight/balance can affect the horse. 

The problem is, whose resposibility is it to tell these people? Instructors have a living to make, so they won't risk upsetting a client as that's lost income, and some people are too thick skinned to take more subtle comments.


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## Goya (26 October 2010)

Quite a contraversial post, but I do understand what you are saying. I too have seen riders who are unbalanced due to weight problems, and also they seem to ride "heavy" if you understand what I mean. 
Conversley, I have seen the "larger" rider who rides very light on the horse. As to how it can be "policed" I'm not too sure. It would really depend on the person and the relationship they had with instructor/friends or whatever.I for instance would be grateful if it was pointed out tactfully, but others could easily take offence very quickly.
mmmmmmmmmm. A difficult one.


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## bigboyrocky (26 October 2010)

Like you, im no skinny mini, but i think its a real shame that people cant 'dicipline' them selves if you like, to try and watch what they eat/exercise more for the sake of thier horses. Like you say, you see so many large riders who just cant balance themselves, and therefore the horses way of going is affected too.

On the other hand, i am glad im not a skinny mini, because i have seen so many people who are riding horses who they cant control because they just dont feel them on thier backs! Ive gotten over the fact i have solid thighs and arms like a man, cause i know ill be greatful when im sat on a mega strong horse who trys to tank off with me... Dont get me wrong, outside of horses, i always think to myself, ahh id love to be lovely and slim, but i think riders to have to have a *bit* of something about them.


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## LEC (26 October 2010)

To me it seems an endless circle and actually no one will do what needs to be done. This rider will endlessly get comments about being unbalanced and so will work on that yet no one will just state what needs to be said? 

Why has fat become such an untouchable subject in society? Both horses, dogs and humans?


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## Saratoga (26 October 2010)

I agree on both points, riders that are too big that they hinder themselves and the horse, and also riders that are so skinny with no muscle tone you wonder how they even stay on!! 

To me i couldn't care less how big or small someone is, but when it hinders the horse and their performance i just don't get it. If you are serious enough to put the time into training and competing, then you should take it seriously enough to make sure you are physically at your best to do the job?

ETA - and why is it ok to say someone is really skinny to their face, but it's not ok to say they are really fat??


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## Tempi (26 October 2010)

I do see what you mean, however i have also seen some skinny riders seriously hindering a horse performance due to poor balance etc.  Obviously if you are on the larger side it will affect you and will probably result in not being as fit as someone who is skinnier, but i have seen some very graceful larger dressage riders about aswell.

I think if the instructor thinks that weight is affecting a riders ability to perform to a certain standard then they should tactfully say something.  However i teach and i can imagine it would probably be quite hard to tactfully say something like that without possible hurting someones feelings.


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## Santa_Claus (26 October 2010)

I would applaud the bravery any instructor/judge who could say to someone their weight was the main cause of loss of balance. Unfortunately if they did they will almost certainly cause major upset which will do them no favours at best and lose them business/reputation at worst. Very few people can take a comment about weight well however subtle the delivery!

I agere it is an issue though. When I tried to loan my old (17h2!) lad back in the days he was sound, one lovely lady wanted to loan him but at 5ft nothing and noticably overweight, and knowing she already had balance issues with her smaller horse there was no way she would ever of been able to hold him in dressage frame never mind collect and perform the lateral work she wanted to do with him. I made an excuse other than her weight as to why I didn't think he would be appropriate for her but felt bad all the same.


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## Quadro (26 October 2010)

I do understand where you are coming from but how to we regulate it etc??
Someone i know who is at least a size 24 showjumps her horse (BS), in all the time i have known her the longest she has kept a horse is 6 months. She spends alot on them (cheapest was 8k) and they all eventually end up stopping due to the fact that she is just far far to heavy (the horses are all lightweight WBs).
You would think that after 6+ horses she would realise that her weight is out of control but obviously not and that is the problem.


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## kerilli (26 October 2010)

Great post, Bravo! I totally agree with you, and think we are all too politically correct about it now. fat thighs in particular get in the way of the muscles doing their job imho. most seriously overweight people do not have very good balance either, some are very top heavy. I think they're more likely to get into difficulties and perhaps to fall off, and to fall off harder, if they are seriously overweight. 
if all someone wants to do is sit on the sofa, fine, but if they are riding a competition horse (and, presumably, getting that as fit as it needs to be to compete) then it's a no-brainer to be fit (= not very overweight, imho) themselves.
and yes,  this isn't holier-than-thou... I've got about a stone to lose before next year's event season starts... it requires willpower, but so does riding!


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## ferrador (26 October 2010)

what about the poor old horse having to carry blobby ?


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## SusieT (26 October 2010)

Is it any of your business at the end of the day? Call it a welfare issue for the horse-but no welfare organisation is going to get involved. Yes by all means instructors tell your clients if you think their riding could be helped by losing weight-they are paying you for your advice. At the end of the day we see people kicking their horses too hard/incorrectly, hauling their horse on the mouth, giving it a good smack when it didn't deserve it. All are 'welfare' issues if you choose to call them that, or maybe they're just a consequence of being ridden..
Maybe a campaign to educate riders on oh... softer hands? Affects many more riders..
I nearly pmsl when I saw the comments on WEG eventing thread that these top eventers were 'too fat' and it was 'so unfair' on their horses. Horses that have qualified with these riders (in majority of cases) to be there. Riders who are better riders than all but a very small handfull (if that..) on this forum. Riders who are intelligent adults and probably know that a few pounds off would make them quicker but it's their life and nobody's business but their own.


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## ferrador (26 October 2010)

maybe mcdonalds should sponsor these events 
chris


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## LEC (26 October 2010)

But this is a 'growing problem'. Horse riding itself burns very little calories. Mucking out you will all be pleased to know burns the most followed by vigorous grooming. 

As for WEG I think any rider who was not fit for that would be just stupid. I saw larger riders but all looked fit/toned for purpose.


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## Chloe_GHE (26 October 2010)

It's very hard to tell anyone that they are on the fat side because obviously it will hurt/cause offense to some degree no matter how tactful you try to be about it.

I think another reason for instructors not mentioning it is obvs the possibility of losing a client, bad word of mouth etc

and also the fact that not many people have such a close relationship with their instructors, which includes all aspects of their training. By this I mean how many people have an instructor who coaches them on what to eat before an event, how many hours sleep to get, how much water to drink etc If you had this close a relationship then I think you would expect them to say 'look you need to get fitter and lose weight, lets talk about diet and an additional exercise regime on top of riding'

That's more the realm of a coach which is the sort of thing you only really get at the much higher levels imho


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## DanielleP (26 October 2010)

Pointing out the obvious but, you dont have to be fat to ride heavy, and you dont have to be skinny to ride light.


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## icestationzebra (26 October 2010)

SusieT said:



			Is it any of your business at the end of the day?
		
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Well I suppose it depends on whether you think it is right to ignore the issue, or take some responsibility for the horses that we ride?

I think we all have a responsibility to do the best by our horses by being fit and up to the job.  That doesn't mean starving yourself down to 8 stone but it does mean being able to maintain your own balance and being able to get off the horses back for the length of time to complete a XC course.  My view is that if you can't do that then you've got work to do.

It's not always about being fat - it's about being fit and of course having a suitable horse.


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## madeleine1 (26 October 2010)

i weigh quite alot and my riding instructure has no problem with telling me to loose some of it and i fight to keep my weight under my horses limit as i dont think it would be far. the horse btw has never complained about my weight and we jump 120 when we want to. i also have to make sure that my balance is spot on so i dont cause her any problems. i dont think people should be pinalised for being big and riding and i dont think just because ur bigger means you cant ride. you just sometimes need a bigger horse. i think its also the same that william fox pitt rides but he has perfect balance even tho hes tailer then 'he should be'. people can be all shapes and sizes and as long as they can ride and work hard theres no reason to stop them or change them


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## BBH (26 October 2010)

Quadro said:



			I do understand where you are coming from but how to we regulate it etc??
Someone i know who is at least a size 24 showjumps her horse (BS), in all the time i have known her the longest she has kept a horse is 6 months. She spends alot on them (cheapest was 8k) and they all eventually end up stopping due to the fact that she is just far far to heavy (the horses are all lightweight WBs).
You would think that after 6+ horses she would realise that her weight is out of control but obviously not and that is the problem.
		
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Size 24 is truly shocking  What is she thinking. Fat is not elegant to look at no matter how good your balance etc. I knew a rider who made it onto the British Dressage Team and she was incredibly weight / appearance aware. To me if you are serious about your riding and the welfare of your horse you will be fit and do the best to help your horse out and that usually means  being a healthy height appropriate weight.


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## Vetwrap (26 October 2010)

The questions were:

So do you think instructors should be harsher and point some of these things out? 

I think and expect instructors to look at every element and make any relevant comments.  I am not paying for their kindness and tact, I am paying for their knowledge, experience and judgement based on this.  My instructor advised pilates to strengthen my core muscles.  Was I offended?  No.  I know from my own experience that when I was at the gym every day, my riding was so much better and my horse went amazingly well!  


Are we in a society now that tries to soothe too much? 

Yes - but probably better not to start on that one.  The world's gone PC mad!!!!


If you are entering a competition to be judged on your riding would you accept these comments? 

If the comments were that increasing core stability would aid better balance and effectiveness of the rider, then I would think this would be fine.  At the end of the day, surely if you have entered a competition to have your riding judged - and someone makes any comments to help you to improve your riding, then those comments are surely as valid as any about soft hands etc...

How can we educate riders better as this problem will surely only keep on growing?
I guess you hope that people become a little more honest with themselves... and others.



Thought provoking...

I'll have to go and look up the pilates class....


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## rolls1392 (26 October 2010)

Fully agree with DaniP
As a tall bloke I constantly have to be weight concious but I only have larger(16.3 mw) horses.
No burgers get into this boy!!!!


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## Gamebird (26 October 2010)

I type this having just returned from the gym.... I consider myself too fat and not fit enough to do the job I want (eventing). I want to produce similar results to the professionals yet I only ride one or two horses a day so I have to look elsewhere for my fitness. I have joined a fantastic gym, have got a fitness plan tailored specifically for riding to work mostly on aerobic capability, leg and shoulders and most of all core strength.

The lady who teaches me dressage is always commenting on my 'mid-section' being loose and wobbly so I am striving to improve this - the fact that I can see this wobble in her mirrors is an extra incentive! I'd also like to get my weight down a little as I have a couple of smallish horses to ride and I think it's only fair.

When I go to competitions - eventing or dressage - and look at the pros I see a group of successful people who ride well, but who are also all pretty thin and pretty fit (despite the atrocious diets and 20 a day!). I suppose I'm a bit like the 11 year looking at Cheryl Cole (or whoever) for a role model but to me if I want to compete with these guys I've got to make every effort on every front. If that's being 10% fitter and 10% lighter then I'm willing to try!


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## madeleine1 (26 October 2010)

LHS said:



			24st is truly shocking 

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she said a size 24 which could be any weight as people are differant sizes. a 5 ft person could be size 24 at 17 stone but im a size 16 at 17 stone and 5,7


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## kirkton (26 October 2010)

If you sit at the finish of the XC of a BE event, you will see the vast majority leap off thier horses, loosen girths and nose bands and walk their horses off towards their stables/lorries.

However, time after time I have seen an over weight unfit rider come wheezing through the finish and ride their poor horse all the way back to the lorry. Seemingly too knackered to walk back themselves. IMO being fat and unfit and going XC is as bad as making a fat and unfit horse go XC.


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## LEC (26 October 2010)

I will use an example of a very top rider. It was very noticable when Lucy W got help on world class with all the extras about nutrition and fitness for riding because she lost weight, I watched her jog round several cross country courses in her running gear, ate properly at events and her results went from good to being outstanding. A mere coincidence?


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## Broodle (26 October 2010)

LEC said:



			So do you think instructors should be harsher and point some of these things out? Are we in a society now that tries to soothe too much? If you are entering a competition to be judged on your riding would you accept these comments? How can we educate riders better as this problem will surely only keep on growing? Thoughts?
		
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Judges can point out a lack of balance etc, but it takes a third party to make the connection between such issues and weight.  For such comments to carry weight (no pun intended) the third party really needs to be an instructor/similar, but I can't see many being brave enough because weight is a taboo subject.  

I *hate* the fact that it's taboo to discuss weight.  I know someone who is rather large and whose health suffers as a result.  Her riding (and horse) would also benefit from her losing some weight.  But can I say this to her??  Of course not, because she would be horribly offended and I would be labelled a b*tch (not helped by the fact that I myself am quite little).  We can talk endlessly about how my various (small but significant) physical imperfections impede my riding, but somehow can't talk about this glaringly obvious physical imperfection of hers!

I don't think that there is any solution, other than for it to become more generally acceptable to discuss weight and for it to be less socially acceptable to be overweight.


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## Decision_Tree (26 October 2010)

I agree with OP comments.

At a recent show I and my horse where entered into the weight carrier section which was followed by the light hack class. I witnessed a poor horse having its mouth "held on to" by the rider who couldnt ride a twenty meter circle in trot who was vastly overweight (sounds bitchy but I could barely see the saddle, harsh but true and doesnt help the balance cause at all). This hotse was in the light hack class..... Is it fair to ask a light hack to carry approx. 20 stone of unbalanced "dead" weight? I would say no and something should be said. 

How often do you see people struggling over the last jumps of a XC/SJ course due to lack of fitness, regardless of size? Is this not dangerous riding? In particular, jumping XC when completing unbalanced yourself meaning you are hindering the horse.

"ETA - and why is it ok to say someone is really skinny to their face, but it's not ok to say they are really fat??"






That peeves me off big time! 

Rant over  Steps off


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## Gamebird (26 October 2010)

LEC said:



			I will use an example of a very top rider. It was very noticable when Lucy W got help on world class with all the extras about nutrition and fitness for riding because she lost weight, I watched her jog round several cross country courses in her running gear, ate properly at events and her results went from good to being outstanding. A mere coincidence?
		
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And seeing as I've got a lot larger margin for improvement than her just think what my results could be like next year! 

This is pretty much what I was trying to say I think, though rather better put!


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## LEC (26 October 2010)

I work at a college which has equine on the curriculum. There are several students who can only ride 3 horses due to their weight being over 13 stone. These horses are weight carriers but as such do not give them any experience of riding competition horses. My colleague who teaches them said they all lie on their applications stating they are 11 stone. This is the supposed future of the equine industry?


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## lindsayH (26 October 2010)

I agree with the OP in principle as I think that an unbalanced very overweight rider is likely to do more damage than an unbalanced thin rider. However, my 15.1hh rather unbalanced arab prefers being ridden by my size 16-18 sharer than size 10-12 me as she has (if I'm brutally honest) better balance and a better seat than I do.


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## madeleine1 (26 October 2010)

Ems207 said:



			I agree with OP comments.

At a recent show I and my horse where entered into the weight carrier section which was followed by the light hack class. I witnessed a poor horse having its mouth "held on to" by the rider who couldnt ride a twenty meter circle in trot who was vastly overweight (sounds bitchy but I could barely see the saddle, harsh but true and doesnt help the balance cause at all). This hotse was in the light hack class..... Is it fair to ask a light hack to carry approx. 20 stone of unbalanced "dead" weight? I would say no and something should be said. 

How often do you see people struggling over the last jumps of a XC/SJ course due to lack of fitness, regardless of size? Is this not dangerous riding? In particular, jumping XC when completing unbalanced yourself meaning you are hindering the horse.

"ETA - and why is it ok to say someone is really skinny to their face, but it's not ok to say they are really fat??"






That peeves me off big time! 

Rant over  Steps off 
	
	
		
		
	


	




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i dont think it is ok to mention anyones weigh, skinny or fat in a negative wiegh.


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## SusieT (26 October 2010)

Oh yes, I will take responsibility for any horse that I ride personally. My standards should not be used to judge everyone else though.
Please feel free anyone who 'competes' (and somehow therefore must be an ideal standard??) to put up a video and invite people to 'advise' you on how to be a more elegant picture, without hindering the horse in anyway...
I just can't see why it is anyone elses business? An unbalanced rider will get marked down in dressage. Their results will not be so good jumping. Hopefully they will seek advice/instruction and this person will guide them towards them being too fat. What else is there to say? It bothers you because it doesn't look pretty? I see plenty of horrendous riding but I don't consider it my right to say that rider is a bad person for not improving their riding/ selling their horse and sticking to a non animal form exercise.


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## RuthnMeg (26 October 2010)

My mum is often telling me iam too big for Meg. Iam 5'4, weigh 10.5 st. Personally, Meg carries me fine, BUT when we have a 'tiff' schooling, its obvious that when I 'don't go with it' I cause Meg to lose the rythmn and balance and all the rest. Total rider fault for being too wobberly and no feather either. Iam consious of my weight, but yet to lose enough to make a difference due to me being a lazy bum.
Iam also not fit, and that really doesn't help.

Iam affraid Iam a great one for pointing out the ''go lightlies'' on their poor horses. Big people on suitable horses are fine, it really is the fat people on the slighter breeds that should seriously think about what they are doing. 

Shoot me down now..


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## little_flea (26 October 2010)

madeleine1 said:



			i dont think it is ok to mention anyones weigh, skinny or fat in a negative wiegh.
		
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Not from an "attractiveness" point of view, but if it is constructive criticism towards improving their riding from a coaching point of view, then I think it is absolutely fair. Like someone else said, instructors tell their students that they need to work towards softer hands/ a more independent balanced seat/ whatever, so if weight affects their riding, then it should be mentioned.

Of course any advice has to be delivered with tact and if the rider is willing to improve - shouting "oi you are too fat" from the arena fence to someone you don't know is unlikely to be well-received, as with anything...

But I don't see why it should be an untouchable subject if it is purely performance-related.


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## Baggybreeches (26 October 2010)

I agree entirely. I am not going to into the holier than thou syndrome, but I am short, and I am inherently greedy, I have been tremendously fat, but I have lost huge amounts of weight.
I am now at a fairly happy medium stage, unfortunately I am also very heavy (as commented upon by my GP when I had my last medical), so I actually have to work that bit harder to lose weight.
My weight has fluctuated as a adult between 13st12lbs and 9st 9lbs, my personal ideal weight is 10st3lbs although this is still over my BMI guide, I currently weigh about 10st7lbs, due to dismal diet and busy work days. However, I have the discipline to know that how ever much weight goes on, the same has to be lost again!
As Gamebird says, I want to mix it with the pro's and to do that I need to work that bit harder to make life easier for my horse.
And to add to the should your instructor/coach tell you this, yes absolutely they should, and I have been told on several occasions as an adult when I needed to lose weight, and as a child I was fortunate(?) to be kept in check by my forthright family members!


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## Baggybreeches (26 October 2010)

Gamebird said:



			And seeing as I've got a lot larger margin for improvement than her just think what my results could be like next year! 

This is pretty much what I was trying to say I think, though rather better put!
		
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The world is your oyster my dear!


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## TarrSteps (26 October 2010)

It's a tricky one and obviously a fraught subject to discuss.

There's no way to legislate it, at least not for open competition.  Teams etc. are a bit different as there are "people" in place in those situations to have those conversations and people have signed on to do whatever it takes to win.

I've certainly had the conversation with students, not in a harsh way but if they ask me what might make a difference I think I'm honour bound to reply honestly, just as I'd do if we were discussing a horse's soundness, money or any other potentially emotional subject.  BUT I assume, at the end of the day, my clients are responsible, intelligent adults and they're doing their best in the situation they're in.  I might advise a different long/short term course, maybe even a change of goals or even horse but the only time I'll be tempted to be a bit more direct is when someone is endangering their/the horse's safety and soundness, or holding out goals that really don't line up with their ability to reach them and so are setting up for disappointment at best.  I've yet to come across anyone who didn't know, in their heart of hearts, that significant extra weight was a problem.

Very few of us are as fit as we *should* be and lead blameless lifestyles, if we want to be honest about it.  And let's face it, there are some truly atrocious riders who aren't a pound over weight. 

Also, I've seen people make phenomenal changes, mostly, to be honest, when people back off a bit and show a willingness to be understanding not just judgemental.  Often these changes come from realising that improvement is within their control, not something that just *happens* and comes as part of a larger enthusiasm and education.


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## Equus Leather (26 October 2010)

QR

Totally agree and actually had a discussion with H&H about this last week in an email convo. I'm a size 16/18. When I first got back into riding I was all over the place - unbalanced and unfit. I couldn't maintain a circle of trot I was that unfit. 

That was 3 years ago. I'm still roughly the same size, but a different shape. I'm MUCH fitter and in a lesson a couple of weeks ago I maintained trot and canter work for an hour without a red face. I would challenge some skiiny minnies to be able to do that 

So - are we all agreed that it's not always size and it's not always balance that are the problem.....that it's often a bit of both....big riders can be balanced.


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## Baggybreeches (26 October 2010)

TarrSteps said:



			Also, I've seen people make phenomenal changes, mostly, to be honest, when people back off a bit and show a willingness to be understanding not just judgemental.  Often these changes come from realising that improvement is within their control, not something that just *happens* and comes as part of a larger enthusiasm and education.
		
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*Takes hat off to TarrSteps* this is the key thing, nobody made me lose weight, I just did it! I was driving home from work one Tuesday night and went into a Weightwatchers meeting that I passed.


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## wellsat (26 October 2010)

I don't understand how they do it! I'm a rather sickening 5ft 8 and 9 1/2 stone so not fat in the slightest. I would say I'm fairly fit as I have a horse on DIY, ride every day and enjoy sport. Having been more of a dressage rider up to now I did my first HT earlier this year and almost fell off as I crossed the finishing line from an inability to breathe. How you get fit enough to be able to regularly go xc and still be fat is a real mystery to me.


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## Decision_Tree (26 October 2010)

little_flea said:



			Not from an "attractiveness" point of view, but if it is constructive criticism towards improving their riding from a coaching point of view, then I think it is absolutely fair. Like someone else said, instructors tell their students that they need to work towards softer hands/ a more independent balanced seat/ whatever, so if weight affects their riding, then it should be mentioned.

Of course any advice has to be delivered with tact and if the rider is willing to improve - shouting "oi you are too fat" from the arena fence to someone you don't know is unlikely to be well-received, as with anything...

But I don't see why it should be an untouchable subject if it is purely performance-related.
		
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I think that anything performance related should be said - if some1s horse was over weight and/or unfit then some1 would say it so why not the rider?


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## Honey08 (26 October 2010)

I've put on a couple of stones over the last couple of years - stopped smoking and got married to someone built like WFP.  I've really noticed a difference in my riding, especially my flatwork.  I'm still quite fit, so don't collapse off after XC, and would never ride my horse back to the box.  (seen quite a lot of thin people do this too...  I do feel that I would be better to get the weight off.  I'm just pants at it!

I'm an instructor, but wouldn't dream of telling someone that they were too fat.  I have known colleagues that would though, but TBH they are naturally skinny people that have no idea how hard it is to lose weight if you have a problem.  TBH if someone said something like that to me I would go off and cry, and probably eat a packet of biscuits!  I may say things like "you need to work on your fitness and strength before you do affiliated eventing..." or something, but that would be the worst I'd say. 

I haven't evented this year, my horse was at stud, so I've the winter to get it off before the next season..  My horse is still perfectly capable of carrying me, but like people have said, its not right to get the horse fit enough to event, when you're not..  I've been on my husband's horse this year, who is much bigger and stronger than mine, and the weight has sometimes helped me on him!


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## SusieT (26 October 2010)

Tarrsteps said what I wanted to much more elegantly


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## only_me (26 October 2010)

I am no skinny mini either - at size 12 I wish I was a size 8!! But all my "weight" is on my thighs - so all my pairs of jeans are size 12 but they are too big on the waist - so I have to wear a belt with EVERYTHING I wear!!

At the start of the summer I was a size 14 (uni diet!!) and managed to loose all my uni pounds over summer - my riding improved dramatically (just ask my dressage trainer!!) and as a result horse was going much better.

As for instructors mentioning weight, my dressage instructor told me "there is two fat animals there" 
He kept telling me to lay off the pizzas 

But by the end of the summer he was congratulating me on loosing the weight and lots of comlpimants heading my way  

But larger riders in a too small jacket =  for me - you should see some of the people in our paper doing "dressage" - no wonder the horse wont go in an outline - he has to poke his nose to keep balanced! 
They just cant have the ability to have balance themselves - so the poor horse is totally hampered!


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## kerilli (26 October 2010)

madeleine1 said:



			she said a size 24 which could be any weight as people are differant sizes. a 5 ft person could be size 24 at 17 stone but im a size 16 at 17 stone and 5,7
		
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hmmm, but, and I am sorry to nitpick, size 24 is never going to be svelte, whether the person is 4'6", 5'6" or even 6'6"... size 24 is large in anyone's book.

I think these things need saying. 
I see a really dramatic difference in the effectiveness of the leg aids in particular, when a rider is slim cf. overweight. Taller long-legged riders can get away with a bit more I think, they still have a lot of leg around the horse even if they are overweight, but short riders with very chunky legs are always going to be up against it when it comes to wrapping those legs around, they can end up 'perched', Thelwell-style. 
Short riders with slim legs, on the other hand, can wrap around what leg they have and use it very effectively.
So, it's not just aesthetics, or horse welfare, it's basically about being a much more effective rider, something we all strive for.


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## Daytona (26 October 2010)

Riders expect there horses to be in peak condition and are forever working on there fitness.diet etc.

Therefore I feel you should also take the same interest in your own level of fitness and diet, 

Don't expect your horse to be an athlete if your not!!

Im not saying we should all be athlete but we should all do some form of cardio exercise to maintain are own lever of fitness, so if you cant run for at least 30mins, are you really fit enough to be riding a horse??  

 Is fair on your horse to carry you about!!

Now i not a skinny mini I am 5ft 10 and weight 12 stone, and at I have been as much as 13.5 stone, but i was still very fit (i ran a marathon at that weight) so you can be over weight and fit , but there reaches a point where this is not possible, thats when you really need to look at your lifestyle, and maybe re-consider your diet!

If not then dont ride horses and sit on your arse all day long


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## scatty_mare (26 October 2010)

This is such an interesting thread. 
Totally agree that most people who have a significant weight problem are aware of it in their heart of hearts, but so often feel that it is out of their control, it is something they can compensate for with a new saddle or lessons with a famous instructor, or a fancy sheepskin breastplate!
They just have to realise they CAN do it, and it is within their control. Nagging and nastiness will only make things worse.
I am a personal trainer and diet and lifestyle coach and am planning to run fitness classes and one to one 'coaching' specifically targeted at riders. I wasn't sure there would be much market for this - people are so much keener to spend their money on things they can get instantly - but reading this thread makes me think there is hope!


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## scatty_mare (26 October 2010)

kerilli said:



			hmmm, but, and I am sorry to nitpick, size 24 is never going to be svelte, whether the person is 4'6", 5'6" or even 6'6"... size 24 is large in anyone's book.

I think these things need saying. 
I see a really dramatic difference in the effectiveness of the leg aids in particular, when a rider is slim cf. overweight. Taller long-legged riders can get away with a bit more I think, they still have a lot of leg around the horse even if they are overweight, but short riders with very chunky legs are always going to be up against it when it comes to wrapping those legs around, they can end up 'perched', Thelwell-style. 
Short riders with slim legs, on the other hand, can wrap around what leg they have and use it very effectively.
So, it's not just aesthetics, or horse welfare, it's basically about being a much more effective rider, something we all strive for.
		
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Agree completely. Sadly I have the legs of a rugby player on steroids.  I run too much I think.
ETA and eat too many chocolate hobnobs


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## little_flea (26 October 2010)

kerilli said:



			hmmm, but, and I am sorry to nitpick, size 24 is never going to be svelte, whether the person is 4'6", 5'6" or even 6'6"... size 24 is large in anyone's book.

I think these things need saying. 
I see a really dramatic difference in the effectiveness of the leg aids in particular, when a rider is slim cf. overweight. Taller long-legged riders can get away with a bit more I think, they still have a lot of leg around the horse even if they are overweight, but short riders with very chunky legs are always going to be up against it when it comes to wrapping those legs around, they can end up 'perched', Thelwell-style. 
Short riders with slim legs, on the other hand, can wrap around what leg they have and use it very effectively.
So, it's not just aesthetics, or horse welfare, it's basically about being a much more effective rider, something we all strive for.
		
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It is a difficult one when it comes to things you can't change - I would try to lose weight if I was too heavy for my horse, and I work on my core strength to be a more effective rider - but, as anyone can see in the video I posted earlier today, I am short and my horse is very big. Quite simply, there is no way my legs will wrap around her properly no matter how thin or fit I am. It is not particularly aesthetically pleasing, but there is nothing I can really do about it, apart from sell the horse!


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## icestationzebra (26 October 2010)

SusieT said:



			Oh yes, I will take responsibility for any horse that I ride personally. My standards should not be used to judge everyone else though.
Please feel free anyone who 'competes' (and somehow therefore must be an ideal standard??) to put up a video and invite people to 'advise' you on how to be a more elegant picture, without hindering the horse in anyway...
I just can't see why it is anyone elses business? An unbalanced rider will get marked down in dressage. Their results will not be so good jumping. Hopefully they will seek advice/instruction and this person will guide them towards them being too fat. What else is there to say? It bothers you because it doesn't look pretty? I see plenty of horrendous riding but I don't consider it my right to say that rider is a bad person for not improving their riding/ selling their horse and sticking to a non animal form exercise.
		
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Well whilst I 'should' say it's not about looking pretty - let's be honest - it's got a lot to do with it.  Talented riders that are also slim and elegant will always look better - fact, and as Gamebird points out - a lot of the pros fit this category - because they are excellent at what they do and are 'fit for purpose'.  Most of us probably don't fit into all those categories so perhaps we are all chasing that elusive dream who knows.  That isn't what this post is about though is it?  It's about when your weight hinders your riding and becomes unfair to the horse.  I don't care if people think that shouldn't be my business or not I've a right to my opinion - based on the fact I think we owe it to our horses to make their job as easy as possible and not because I am some sparkling role model on any count.....


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## Luci07 (26 October 2010)

There is a slightly sanctimonious tone to this thread. I am very aware of my body shape and how I have to work around it having had a very forthright dressage trainer at one point and we are talking about someone who could talk about the impact of short thighs/long calves etc. Nothing I could to do change my actual body shape but do the best with what I have. When I did event, I also took up with a personal trainer as could not get the right results on my own. I had 3 horses to work at that time and was not aerobically fit enough. She had to come up with a totally different work out as my fitness/strength was widly disportinate. Eg, back and thigh muscles way up on the strength scale, stomach muscles way down. Aerobic middlling but stamina good.

I am not a skinny mini, never have been and would have very peed off if someone saw fit to tell I was overweight. I would rather be judged by my riding. Weight less now than when I evented but not as fit, but can compete without collapsing very happily - so I would judge someone on how they ride, not if they are skinny or fat. 

And I was talking to someone who is a professionial about how horses change your physical shape anyway - ie. no rider has slim forearms or calves. Even my mega tiny (size 8) friend has to go to a large to get into her boots. We also tend to have problems with core strength and problems with too much strength in our backs and not enough in front. 

so how about making the thread less of a an attack and more about what other exercise is good to help with your riding? I did do running and walking but stopped that since no 2 dog is refusing to go out with me so bought a Wii instead!


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## Dirtymare (26 October 2010)

This is a very interesting thread.
I can see both sides of this.
I'm 5ft 7" and weighed 9.5st for alot of years. I didnt do any exercise except for riding and mucking out. I was very very unfit. My riding suffered incredibly as I didnt have core muscle strenghth. Then 3 yrs ago I became ill - and lost even more weight as I recovered from my illness.
Now, I'm a couple of stone heavier. However, I'm very very fit. I run 3-4 times a week and when I get the time, I cycle too. I dont wish to blow my own trumpet, but my riding has improved no end, and my horse is going better than ever.
I have seen morbidly obese riders ride fantasitcally. I have also seen skinny minis ride appaulingly too.
I think as long as the horse can carry the weight, there should be no argument.
It is just asthetics.


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## madeleine1 (26 October 2010)

little_flea said:



			Not from an "attractiveness" point of view, but if it is constructive criticism towards improving their riding from a coaching point of view, then I think it is absolutely fair. Like someone else said, instructors tell their students that they need to work towards softer hands/ a more independent balanced seat/ whatever, so if weight affects their riding, then it should be mentioned.

Of course any advice has to be delivered with tact and if the rider is willing to improve - shouting "oi you are too fat" from the arena fence to someone you don't know is unlikely to be well-received, as with anything...

But I don't see why it should be an untouchable subject if it is purely performance-related.
		
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it doesnt have to be untouchable but it should be about, balance and carriage, not weight or height. my riding instructer has told me to loose a bit of weight but she also says my riding is really well balanced and that it would be more of a problem if it wasnt


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## Quadro (26 October 2010)

The rider i was using in  my example is shortish but is still huge! Balances totally on the horses mouths (hence they stop) due to her lack of balance etc

Baggybreeches=Slightly off topic but i know that ever one gets really hung up on BMIs but there are cases where they will never work eg top NBA players who are 6"9 plus and weigh 22 stone (muscle of course) they come up on the obese side  but of course they are exceptionally fit althetes and just by looking a pictures of Lebron James and Dwayne Wade etc will show they are anything but fat (OH is majorly into basketball hence my using this as an example!)


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## Firewell (26 October 2010)

I do not have a problem with overweight, off balance riders as long as they are suitably mounted on big, heavy horses who can cope.

I actually applaud someone who is bigger (within reason!) for giving riding a go as it is a great form of exercise and may help them to loose weight and potentially save the NHS the cost of treating them for illnesses related to their obesity. Good on them! Carrying hay bales and practsing sitting trot is a lot better then the same person getting depressed and eating more on the sofa...

What I do dislike is seeing lw horses with riders that are clearly too heavy and said rider pulling the horse off balance. They should either lose the weight to ride that horse or get a more suitable horse.

I'm a bit of a weed, I admit that. Which is why I ride light sensitive tb's. I wouldn't feel comfortable on some great thundering wbxid, it would be too wide, I wouldn't be able to hold it together and it be too strong. I could eat more and work at the gym to ride that sort of horse but I dont because I'm happy with my skinny pins tb. Saying that my dressage trainer wins PSG on giant warmblood and she's only 7/8 stone but she works to make herself as strong as possible.


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## Tnavas (26 October 2010)

Contraversial? I think your comment downright rude! Being a now larger than life lady - I'd love to get you all  back here in 30 years time and see what weight you all are!

I'm 5'7" and I used to be 7½stone until I got glandular fever at 25yrs then keeping weight down became a struggle. Until 5yrs ago I rode daily but work got in the way and as I'm longer working with horses the weight pilled on. It is NOT easy to lose despite being discipplined as to what I eat.

I see many slim riders who are constanly interfering with their horse, are 'heavy' riders as they have no control over their body mass. When I ride, despite my size I have control over my body and sit very lightly.


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## kerilli (26 October 2010)

Luci07 said:



			There is a slightly sanctimonious tone to this thread.  


And I was talking to someone who is a professionial about how horses change your physical shape anyway - ie. no rider has slim forearms or calves. Even my mega tiny (size 8) friend has to go to a large to get into her boots. We also tend to have problems with core strength and problems with too much strength in our backs and not enough in front.
		
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No, I really don't think there is, at all. I don't see anyone posting anything along the lines of "I'm skinny, they're fat, therefore they can't ride, or they shouldn't ride"!   

As for your second comment - sorry, but you're wrong on that one. I can think of absolutely loads of riders, Pros & amateurs, who either stay slim or are natural ectomorphs, and stay that way even though they are very fit and ride multiple horses every day. I can think of a few Pros with chunky forearms and calves, and literally hundreds with slim ones!


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## Flame_ (26 October 2010)

Well just a few points to add...

I know a couple of riders who need to eat a bit more and lift a few more water buckets to enable them to be as effective as they want to be, being slim and of a weak build hinders riding as well.

Having just bought a 14.2 arab, weight is now something I'm going to have to really concentrate on and not allow it to creep up, I see this as a good incentive not to be too fat, which I should be doing anyway!

Finally, and most importantly, equestrians are constantly trying to get our "sport" taken seriously. How can riders expect to be respected as athletes if we lie to ourselves that we can still do as well when unfit and overweight?


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## madeleine1 (26 October 2010)

kerilli said:



			No, I really don't think there is, at all. I don't see anyone posting anything along the lines of "I'm skinny, they're fat, therefore they can't ride, or they shouldn't ride"!   

As for your second comment - sorry, but you're wrong on that one. I can think of absolutely loads of riders, Pros & amateurs, who either stay slim or are natural ectomorphs, and stay that way even though they are very fit and ride multiple horses every day. I can think of a few Pros with chunky forearms and calves, and literally hundreds with slim ones!
		
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one of luci points is that even skinny riders have larger and more developed thighs and arms as that is the nature of the sport. i have to agree. i know loads of tiny riders who still have built legs and arms


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## lucemoose (26 October 2010)

If the horse is expected to compete as an athlete, then the rider too should be an athlete. Whether that horse is a cob, WB or pony, then the rider should be fit for their size and I believe that all riders have a weight/size where they are fittest. Be that they need to loose weight, maintain weight or gain weight...

at the other end of the scale, some Pro riders are noticeably tiny and could do with a little more muscle mass to ride effectively rather than purely off the hand and spur..small continental females..


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## Kao (26 October 2010)

This is a touchy subject, but when it comes to weight I'm extremely open about it.
I do find it very annoying to say the least when I see an overweight person riding say a TB, competitively and expecting to get somewhere. As said before if the horse is an athlete then the rider should buck up and become perform in tune with the horse.
I'm size 6/8 (depending on the brand I guess) and own a cob. Now while he can carry a adult man or the larger rider I would NEVER put an extremely overweight person on him. 

People are sugarcoating weight issues to the point they are becoming issues in everything. In the press/media there's the odd article on "Fat Britian" or whatever but it NEEDS to be addressed in Equestrian sports.
Instead of telling people to be "big and beautiful" or proud of who they are. Just don't. It's encouraging them to be BIGGER and eat more, if these people don't want to lose the weight then that's their problem. But enforcing it onto the horse is just bang out of order and cruel.

*breathes*


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## scatty_mare (26 October 2010)

The thing is that we need to be healthy and fit in order to perform at our best. 
Some people's healthy weight is bigger than others, and it is equally unhealthy to aspire to be twiglets. Look at horses- we are just as critical, maybe even more so, of a slightly underweight horse than an overweight one.
However when weight affects our ability to perform our chosen sport/activity/live our lives as we should then it NEEDS to be addressed. It is not only blooming hard work for a horse to carry around someone who is seriously overweight (and I do mean seriously, not just a bit wobbly as most of us probably are) but it is also very hard on your body all the time. 
And it makes me sad when I see people throwing everything at getting their horse to its physical peak, and completely neglecting their own personal fitness. It's crazy.
In the main though I think people need to understand what is a healthy way of living and what is not, and that it is up to them what they put in their body and how much exercise they do. Not up to anyone else.


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## kerilli (26 October 2010)

Flame_ said:



			I know a couple of riders who need to eat a bit more and lift a few more water buckets to enable them to be as effective as they want to be, being slim and of a weak build hinders riding as well.
		
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Sorry, I don't mean to pick on you in particular, you're not the only one to post along these lines, but jeeez, we seem to be criticising everyone here - some who are too fat, some who are too skinny! I wonder who everyone thinks has the 'perfect physique' for riding? I bet we'd even get dissent on that...!
I think super-slim looks great on a horse and being skinny absolutely does not equate to being weak. Just look at mountain climbers for examples of that!




Flame_ said:



			Finally, and most importantly, equestrians are constantly trying to get our "sport" taken seriously. How can riders expect to be respected as athletes if we lie to ourselves that we can still do as well when unfit and overweight?
		
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I cannot agree enough with this.

It is, as stated up there, a growing problem. I'm old enough that when I was at school there was one, just ONE, obese kid in the whole school. Honestly. (And if anyone cares, he lost all the weight at Uni, has kept it off, and is a good friend of mine.) Nowadays there are a lot of obese children, and a lot of them turn into obese adults. When they then want to be 'athletes' on top of horses going at speed and/or over jumps, I think this becomes a problem.


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## Thelwell_Girl (26 October 2010)

I think that as long as the horse is happy and healthy, than rider weight does not matter as much. However, if you're riding ability is affected than I think you should do something about it. If my instructor thought my weight was affecting my riding, she would tell me, just as we have spoken about other things, best joddies/sports bras etc.

Now I am certainly not skinny, but the horses I ride can easily carry me and a little bit more. I am much fitter right now than I have ever been, after a summer of riding as much as I could.


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## SusieT (26 October 2010)

so... Fat is bad.. What about those with a dodgy knee or ankle who can't balance properly? And those who get left behind and jab horse in the mouth?


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## bigboyrocky (26 October 2010)

kerilli said:



			I think super-slim looks great on a horse and being skinny absolutely does not equate to being weak. Just look at mountain climbers for examples of that!
		
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Im going to stick my neck out and say i disagree with this  imo its a bit different with men, because they are naturally bigger and taller,, a hefty rugby player say, would not look right on a horse, however women... i would much rather see a strong rider than a stick. My best friend for example (she doesnt ride), many people take her has being anorexic... trust me shes not anorexic/bulimic or anything else, she eats as much as i do, she just has a very fast metabolism (lucky sew and sew), however, she sat on Rocky, and looked stupidly skinny and out of place. (she is the same height as me if not a bit taller) 

I think it works both way - riders need to find a happy medium of being strong enough to cope with the horse and have enough about them that the horse feels them on thier back(!), but not grossly overweight so that it hinders thier performance.. Just my opinon


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## BBH (26 October 2010)

SusieT said:



			so... Fat is bad.. What about those with a dodgy knee or ankle who can't balance properly? And those who get left behind and jab horse in the mouth?
		
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Well they're also unlikely to excel.

We are talking in the main about anything that impedes the horse and weight in the main is controllable whereas knee problems etc aren't. Unless of course someones heavy weight is putting pressure on the knee joints. 

People have a choice to make and if you can be a healthy weight thus be able to ride better thus helping the horse, be fitter and look better why on earth wouldn't you.


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## kit279 (26 October 2010)

SusieT said:



			so... Fat is bad.. What about those with a dodgy knee or ankle who can't balance properly? And those who get left behind and jab horse in the mouth?
		
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Well, not to be a complete pedant, but an overweight person is much more likely to have a dodgy knee/ankle in the first place, no joke.  

A very funny GP friend of mine says that he often has overweight patients who swear they only eat salad.  To which he replies that elephants only eat grass   His point is right - it is all about portion control and sometimes people don't realise how much they are actually eating.  I'm not going to point the finger, there are people who have to work damn hard and basically starve themselves in order to be just a regular size and weight - they are unlucky and definitely drew the short straw.  But it's the same principle as horses.  Some get fit by strolling around the field (Kauto Star) and some take months and months of slog to get fit (Denman).  You just have to work with what you've got.


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## Mistletoe-Kiss (26 October 2010)

bigboyrocky said:



			, however, she sat on Rocky, and looked stupidly skinny and out of place. (she is the same height as me if not a bit taller) 

I think it works both way - riders need to find a happy medium of being strong enough to cope with the horse and have enough about them that the horse feels them on thier back(!), but not grossly overweight so that it hinders thier performance.. Just my opinon 

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I agree with the happy medium bit, but not the start! 
I'm a size zero, and I don't *think* I look out of place on horseback, in fact I'd say that with my health issues it's the only place I look normal!


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## BBH (26 October 2010)

You look stunning.


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## kerilli (26 October 2010)

you look great. that, to me, is the perfect physique for riding.
i teach a girl who is about 5'6" and size 6 ish, she looks awesome on a horse. even when she very occasionally loses her balance due to horse being naughty, her long skinny legs HELP her, where a more experienced rider with short fat legs would be all over the place. sorry, but i've seen it, many times!


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## Baggybreeches (26 October 2010)

*aargh* point missed completely!
We are talking about competition riders, not what a horse is capable of carrying. 
I know for a fact that when I am riding at 12st racing weight my horse will be about 20 seconds slower over 3miles than when I am 11st 7lb, same horse, same jockey, ergo, weight affects performance!
ETA My horse would quite easily carry someone of 14st plus on account of him being a giant old fashioned type of TB, but that doesn't mean its good for him!


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## bigboyrocky (26 October 2010)

Meow-Kiss said:



			I agree with the happy medium bit, but not the start! 
I'm a size zero, and I don't *think* I look out of place on horseback, in fact I'd say that with my health issues it's the only place I look normal! 





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Sorry ive been talking just with eventing in mind... I think if you have a horse to get around a XC course you need to have a bit of something about you. Just look at all the people at the very top... Pippa funnel, Piggy French, Tina cook etc... i think they all look great on horses, but i wouldnt consider any of them to be 'skinny', just fit...

My best friend is skinnier than you! To me you look healthy and not weak, there arent many people that could be a size 0 and still look as healthy as you do imo. I think dressage is all about look elegant aswell, and tall and slim does look lovely.


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## CrazyMare (26 October 2010)

I do believe people should be told if their weight is hampering their health or their competitive desires.

Overweight & healthy are two words that just do not go together, although at any given time, there may be no symptoms of poor health, but carrying excess body weight is scientifically linked to a long list of health problems.

My instructor HAS told people that are too overweight for what they want to do - specifically for sidesaddle lessons. I have no doubt she would tell me although has no need at present - she has told me when I have lost muscle tone.

As for skinnies on big horses - I am 5ft7, 9st with spindly legs and a BMI of around 18/19, I ride a 13.1h and a 17.1h regularly - Of course the big horse doesn't recognise me - his Daddy is about 11 1/2st. Solution - he rides in a snaffle, I ride in a 3 ring gag.


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## Baggybreeches (26 October 2010)

kerilli said:



			you look great. that, to me, is the perfect physique for riding.
i teach a girl who is about 5'6" and size 6 ish, she looks awesome on a horse. even when she very occasionally loses her balance due to horse being naughty, her long skinny legs HELP her, where a more experienced rider with short fat legs would be all over the place. sorry, but i've seen it, many times!
		
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As a short fat person I agree entirely with this. I am eternally jealous of tall thin people who also manage to look elegant and effortless!


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## SusieT (26 October 2010)

Oh that is priceless.. size zero is the perfect physique for riding?
I can see plenty of riding 'errors' in this thread in signatures etc.. Do I comment on them or say they must be stopped for the good of the horseworld?
Nope.
Anyone who says it is 'better' to be underhorsed is wrong. But where the rider is enjoying their sport, the horse is not suffering (and I mean by putting a massive rider on an unfit horse) unduely (they are ridden what..1hr a day? ) why don't we let everyone enjoy their horse as they wish?
If you feel that your performance or your pupils performance could be helped by losing a few pounds-go for it. But don't force your opinions on others or make them out to be gospel or 'common sense' when they are just your opinions.
How many fat 5-a-side football/rugby playing men do we think there are out on a Sunday? A few anyway. I don't think there are that many massively overweight riders, at least I don't see them, podgy yes, but that's their business.

So dodgy knees etc. are fine because you can't find a simple solution to say like 'stop eating pies' (I'll ignore the 'overweight people more likely to have these problems-old people are more likely to have these problems-Shall we limit competitive riding to teenagers??)


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## SusieT (26 October 2010)

Ah and to the 'short fat legs would be all over the place' well score one for tall people...No matter how little i eat I will never have long legs, (and they're not fat either for the record, I'm normal for my height) perhaps I should give up on this riding lark as I will never look as elegant as your size 6 friend? Oh dear.


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## kerilli (26 October 2010)

bigboyrocky said:



			Sorry ive been talking just with eventing in mind... I think if you have a horse to get around a XC course you need to have a bit of something about you. Just look at all the people at the very top... Pippa funnel, Piggy French, Tina cook etc... i think they all look great on horses, but i wouldnt consider any of them to be 'skinny', just fit...
		
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Hmmmm, well, for the sake of my argument, please can I mention Sharon Hunt, Ingrid Klimke, Karin Donckers, Mary King, and absolutely loads of other top event riders who are enviably slim and don't seem to have any problem at all with the strength required to ride around a 4* course once or twice in a day.
Of course, we're concentrating on women here. I can probably name 100 or so skinny male Pro event riders, and only 2 non skinny. I bet a lot of people will know who I mean, as well!
Skinny can mean strong and fit, it doesn't mean weak and emaciated...


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## Thelwell_Girl (26 October 2010)

kerilli said:



			...short fat legs...




			Well...



			
				SusieT said:
			
		


			Ah and to the 'short fat legs would be all over the place' well score one for tall people...No matter how little i eat I will never have long legs, (and they're not fat either for the record, I'm normal for my height) perhaps I should give up on this riding lark as I will never look as elegant as your size 6 friend? Oh dear.
		
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I agree! However, I am ridiculously short  My legs are short but toned (to a certain extent) and my calves are big 

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## bigboyrocky (26 October 2010)

kerilli said:



			Hmmmm, well, for the sake of my argument, please can I mention Sharon Hunt, Ingrid Klimke, Karin Donckers, Mary King, and absolutely loads of other top event riders who are enviably slim and don't seem to have any problem at all with the strength required to ride around a 4* course once or twice in a day.
Of course, we're concentrating on women here. I can probably name 100 or so skinny male Pro event riders, and only 2 non skinny. I bet a lot of people will know who I mean, as well!
Skinny can mean strong and fit, it doesn't mean weak and emaciated...
		
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i wouldnt consider any of them to be skinny. just very fit and toned... most of them are all at least size 8.. and skinny to me does mean weak and emaciated (thin, underweight, not much to them accept skin and bone etc), prehaps where our difference in opinion lies!


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## kerilli (26 October 2010)

SusieT said:



			Ah and to the 'short fat legs would be all over the place' well score one for tall people...No matter how little i eat I will never have long legs, (and they're not fat either for the record, I'm normal for my height) perhaps I should give up on this riding lark as I will never look as elegant as your size 6 friend? Oh dear.
		
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As I said up there, short slim legs can do a really great job. Ginny Leng was a perfect example. She rode big horses, perfectly balanced, she never struggled. I never said it was necessary to have long legs to be a good rider. Far from it.

What the hell does "normal for my height" mean? Seriously? That cracks me up.
I know two guys of 6'6". One is an ectomorph and weighs about 11.5 stone. another is an endomorph and weighs about 22 stone. 
which is "normal for that height"? Either. Or, anything in between. There is no set point. If you think there is, I don't know what to say really.


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## SusieT (26 October 2010)

Kerilli-don't you see you're saying the same thign as others are saying about larger/fat riders.
There can be perfectly good skinny riders, and perfectly rubbish ones. Same as there can be perfectly good fat riders and perfectly rubbish ones. And some of hte fat riders will be better than the skinny ones. And some of the skinny ones will be better than the fat ones...


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## JenniferS (26 October 2010)

Yeah, what does "Normal/Average for my height" mean ??


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## SusieT (26 October 2010)

Within the normal range, e.g you would not consider someone wat 15st and 5"3 a normal healthy weight for their height... Weight has to be taken in accordance with height as for a 6"6 rugby player 15st might be considered a normal weight


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## Hemirjtm (26 October 2010)

I have lost 2 stone over the past 6 months (thank goodness as I weighed too much for what I wanted to do!). I'm a balanced rider (even when I weighed 2 stone more), but the difference in my horse is amazing ! I think he really appreciates the fact I have lost weight, and I feel 100% better for doing so !

I'm never going to be a skinny minny as I have 'proper' thighs, muscly calves and I have got quite broad shoulders. I am pretty muscly and not much wobbles ! I do feel as though I should lose another stone at least to get down to my 'perfecet' weight BUT I'll do it carefully ! I eat healthily, cycle loads and ride 2 / 3 horses a day at the moment   So I'm pretty fit !! 

I think that everyone is different, but agree that to ride properly you shouldn't be over weight or underweight ! There is also a huge difference to the heavier rider riding lighter than the lighter rider riding heavily  !


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## siennamum (26 October 2010)

I think we are talking about two different things tbh.

1. An amateur hobby rider should surely not be so concerned with the level of detail people are getting into here. If people should only be riding heavy horses when they are over 13st, then presumably lots of men should stop riding QH's in the US. Unless they are adversely affecting the horses welfare - does it matter what weight they are.

2. People expecting their horses to be equine athletes will need to also be althletes, and it seems to me they are - you don't see overweight people going round Badminton.

I do agree that when someone's weight affects their riding siginificantly they should be given guidance by whoever is training them. Not just in terms of pointers about their gigantic thighs, but maybe about their unsuitable mount, or about their bad balance - stuff can be done about that. (I think it does affect riding - it badly affects mine now I'm a middle aged fatty)

We are much softer than other countries about this. In Germany, friends/family openly state that only very thin, tall women are any good as dressage riders, and men. Fatter women (and I mean normal/slim women under 5 ft 10) cannot sit properly because their thighs get in the way - so most people on this post would be buggered.


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## kit279 (26 October 2010)

Yes, I weighed in for my medical the other day and I was totally horrified to discover I weighed at least 1.5 stone more than I thought I would!  Seriously, I'm not naturally big framed and the doc and I were a bit non-plussed to say the least.  I haven't changed size, all my clothes still fit (and not tighter), I just seem to have become mysteriously denser...


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## mbequest (26 October 2010)

are we talking event riders here? or SJ /DR?? For me there would be a difference. I am a big rider, and dont shirk away from it. I used to event, to a very high level, but I now feel that a horse carrying me for 90secs round a BSJA course is much more appropriate than a typically more lightweight one, think event stamp, carrying me for 5-7mins full tilt round the XC. 

This is the same reason I dont hunt. 

I think that Becky Holder is a nice exmple of the larger event rider competing at the highest of levels..........


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## little_flea (26 October 2010)

mbequest said:



			are we talking event riders here? or SJ /DR?? For me there would be a difference. I am a big rider, and dont shirk away from it. I used to event, to a very high level, but I now feel that a horse carrying me for 90secs round a BSJA course is much more appropriate than a typically more lightweight one, think event stamp, carrying me for 5-7mins full tilt round the XC. 

This is the same reason I dont hunt. 

I think that Becky Holder is a nice exmple of the larger event rider competing at the highest of levels..........
		
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Agreed - Jan Tops for example, and of course Geoff Billington are not exactly of the tall, slim type and their horses don't seem to struggle too much! Maybe the problem is more prevalent amongst us women who are unfortunately more prone to the fat thigh syndrome, which unfortunately does sometimes affect our seat? :-D


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## kerilli (26 October 2010)

SusieT said:



			Kerilli-don't you see you're saying the same thign as others are saying about larger/fat riders.
There can be perfectly good skinny riders, and perfectly rubbish ones. Same as there can be perfectly good fat riders and perfectly rubbish ones. And some of hte fat riders will be better than the skinny ones. And some of the skinny ones will be better than the fat ones...
		
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Nope, I don't think I am, actually. 
If you are saying in the above statement that what everyone else is saying is your 2nd paragraph, I disagree fairly fundamentally with that, and I don't think that is the general gist of this thread either.
Of course there are exceptions. I saw a foreign sj rider years ago jumping in the big class at Hickstead, she was a seriously large lady on top of a skinny blood weed. They were brilliant, no question. Do I think they'd have been even better if she'd been slimmer? Yes, I do. Ditto Becky Holder, I think she's a truly great rider, no question. I think she'd be even better if she could lose a bit more. I know she's lost quite a bit and I applaud her for it. Nobody said it was easy to lose.
Overall I think a lighter weight rider has less capacity to do damage (on horse's back, mouth, legs) than a heavy rider. I know very good riders can ride 'light', and beginners or unbalanced riders can ride 'heavy', but weight is weight. A 16 stone rider cannot be the same to carry as a 10 stone rider, however expert the former. The point-to-point example up there is very telling.


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## little_flea (26 October 2010)

Also agree with Susie T - I am stumpy-legged and there is nothing I can do about that! I am 5'3 and 8.5 stone and look wrong on my 17.2hh horse (see thread below for video - it just doesn't look that great) but I don't want to ride ponies, so I guess I just have to accept what I am. Suppose the difference is that at least nobody can tell me to grow longer legs... they just quietly pity me from the arena fence! :-D


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## pinktiger (26 October 2010)

i too am no skinimini, 10st size 12,, im fit enough to carry a decent amount of muscle and control my 17'2(really wouldnt want to be any smaller or weaker)!!  i too like you watched some dressage very recently and was amazed by a couple of larger ladies, one to me, just looked too unbalanced esp when in med trot, really looked to be affecting the horse tbh and im sure the judges mustve noticed, but they are ever tactful and im sure marked accordingly!


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## SusieT (26 October 2010)

Sorry,I didnt mean youw ere saying fat riders coul dbe good riders. 
You were saying the same about skinny riders as many are saying about fat riders. So it works both ways. But anyway, this thread has shown several people up in a very bad light imo, some have been very sensible, some are just anti-fat people full stop.


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## kerilli (26 October 2010)

SusieT said:



			Sorry,I didnt mean youw ere saying fat riders coul dbe good riders. 
You were saying the same about skinny riders as many are saying about fat riders. So it works both ways. But anyway, this thread has shown several people up in a very bad light imo, some have been very sensible, some are just anti-fat people full stop.
		
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Did you actually read what I wrote in my last post? 
I said that Becky Holder is "a truly great rider" and that the large sj lady and her horse were "brilliant".
So, please do not imply that I said anywhere that fat riders cannot be good riders.
I reserve the right to believe that if they were lighter, they'd be even better.

If your final comment is aimed at me, ouch, but that's your opinion.
I'm not anti-fat people unless they are on top of a quality horse doing big fences over long distances, or they are unbalanced and using the reins to stay on. I don't like seeing lightweight riders do that either, but imho they do less damage...


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## brushingboots (26 October 2010)

Honey08 said:



			I do feel that I would be better to get the weight off.  I'm just pants at it!
!
		
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Ditto 


speighty79 said:



			Im not saying we should all be athlete but we should all do some form of cardio exercise to maintain are own lever of fitness, so if you cant run for at least 30mins, are you really fit enough to be riding a horse??
		
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i think thats rather harsh. 30 mins is a VERY long time, and someone like myself can't physically run 30 mins due to broken bones being pinned back together! 



SusieT said:



			so... Fat is bad.. What about those with a dodgy knee or ankle who can't balance properly? And those who get left behind and jab horse in the mouth?
		
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hhhmnnnnnn



Right, i'm not skinny infact i fall into the overweight category for my height according to my PE books. However, i'm happy with my body i feel better than i have for ages and yes, i know i could do with loosing some and i watch what i eat, i only eat 'fatty' foods when i feel i 'need' to. I ride a KWPN a skinny one [Minnie] and yes i feel i look fat on her. And i tell you what i damn hate it. I feel like i make her looks **** because of me. Someone has told me that i'm 'too fat for my horse' and thats bloody hurtful and gives me an incentive to loose weight. So if someone thinks im fat - please tell me  
Since those times i've lost weight apparantly and people keep telling me i have so im obviously doing something right


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## Firewell (26 October 2010)

I do not deny that slim riders are going to be more athletic and consequently more capable. You rarely see overweight riders at the olympics that's fair enough. At the higher levels riders have to be athletes like the horses.

However I am a bit cross by this thread. Not everyone wants to compete at a high level and why should we deny anyone the pleasure of horses no matter their size, or age!!! Lots of older riders aren't as athletic for obvious reasons either!!

Imagine that you are overweight, I'm sure you are painfully aware of the fact and only too aware of your physical capabilities. Imagine that you adore horses and dedicate your life to them. You decide to take your lovely big shire x to do a local prelim. You know you are no world beater but you would like to improve and compete. Imagine preparing for your test, getting nervous, plaiting up in the dark.
Then imagine getting to the show trying your best to warm up as your instructor told you and then you notice a pair of nasty little women looking at you... Sniggering and whispering that you look funny in your jodphurs and the fact you are a bit wobbly  . Your not hurting your horse and you aren't hurting them, you knew you weren't going to win but now you feel utterly crap and useless and very upset.

I don't really know what this thread was meant to achieve but I bet it's served to make someone who adores horses feel very inadequate when they shouldn't do because none of us are perfect. Even the slim athletic ones amongst us are going to be old and wobbly one day and I know im going to still want to ride and compete then!


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## LEC (26 October 2010)

I think we have moved away slightly from the point of my post which was talking specifically about competition riders and whether we shy away from telling the people the truth about how they could improve their riding. 

Also I am not really talking about weight as one persons optimal weight is another persons morbidly obese but instead fat which I think is quite different as fat weighs less than muscle. Emma Hindle is not the same shape as Laura Bechtolsheimer but does not stop them both being great riders and both are fit to ride.


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## kerilli (26 October 2010)

firewell, the title of the thread was "Fat Competition Riders", not "overweight riders on weight-carriers", which I'm sure 99% of people will not have a problem with.
This thread was really not about making people feel inadequate imho.


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## TGM (26 October 2010)

firewell said:



			However I am a bit cross by this thread. Not everyone wants to compete at a high level and why should we deny anyone the pleasure of horses no matter their size, or age!!!
		
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I don't think anyone on here is saying overweight riders shouldn't ride at all.  What IS being said, is that if overweight riders want to compete seriously, or even want to improve their performance at the lower levels, then they should consider losing weight and that their instructors shouldn't be afraid to point that out!  

One poster on here made a comment about seeing rider errors in people's sigs on here - but you can bet if those riders had a lesson then their instructor would point out those errors - whether it is being left behind, bad hands, in front of the movement, etc.  However, there are many instructors who can see weight is hindering their pupil's progress, and are too scared to raise the issue.

I am happy to admit that I am not built for riding, being short with stumpy legs!  However, when I was competing on a regular basis I was a size 8 and found riding a lot easier than I do now at a size 12 with flabby thighs!


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## dressagecrazy (26 October 2010)

I think people are making a mistake comparing Ametuer competitiors with Pro's. Most Pro riders are rarely out of the saddle for most of the day so there is no doubt that 9 times out of 10 there going to be slimmer & are normally better riders due to the amount they ride.

Ive put on weight since my horse got ill & it's annoying me but unfortunately i tend to eat when stressed & im very stressed all the time atm. I still feel like a balanced rider but im very none confident in myself so the weight is being shifted.


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## KatB (26 October 2010)

It started off talking about fat people (therefore people who are overweight, and unfit, so therefore not having the core strength to stay on a horse in true balance) competing, to anyone over a size 6 with less than excessively long legs not being able to ride effectively. hmmmmm. 

A lot of it is subjective tbh. Some peoples fat (and I suspect a couple of the more "extremist" on here...) is anything over a size 10 and 9.5 stone. Some people view fat as being someone carrying excessive body weight and being untoned, unfit and as a result uneffective. My idea of fat is the latter. 

I have a friend who is constantly complemented on her slender build, and yet she is the same clothes size and height as me. However, she has a short body, and long legs, I have short thighs, and long calves, with a long body. Therefore she is slimmer in appearance. 

However, she is the first to admit I am probably fitter than her, and have better core strength. So, from appearance sake, she is going to be the better rider if we are going on comments on here... in practise, I am probably fitter for the job, and have better balance/core strength.

By the standards of some people on here, a lot of the "lesser" pro's aren't ideal for riding, yet get the results, and do bloody well. That is because the people on here's perception is good riders fit a certain image, which simply is not true. 

I think what people need to be doing is making the best of what they have got, and by making themselves more body aware and fitter, they will naturally loose any excess weight. However, lets not confuse excess weight with "reaching size 0 because it looks prettier", because for a majority of riders, this is not making them more effective or better riders, which is surely what we are striving for?!


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## Holidays_are_coming (26 October 2010)

I agree katb, I had a gym induction a while ago, Im about 1 1/2 stone off the weight Id like to be (Im loosing a stone before the start of the eventing season) but when looking at my body fat and muscle my fat was normal and but I have 5% more muscle than the higher end. 

It is scary I have some friends who weigh around the same but I fit in a size 12 however some of them are in 16/18? Which is scary!! Im never going to be size 6 with long legs and im never going to be a world beater of a rider, but im concious of not being to heavy for my mare and I want to make her life as easy as possible!


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## Decision_Tree (26 October 2010)

with alot of what KatB just said. I am off the camp that overweight unfit or generally unfit riders would all benefit for being fitter. I think it has nothing to do with size zero which is what this topic seems to have veered towards - posting a pick of a size zero siting on a horse tells me nothing of their ability to ride in balance. I am of the impression that Katie Price isnt far off size zero and ive seen plenty of slating of her riding ability! 

As Figjam will tell you - to be XC able I have to be able to run 5km in about 25mins as I am a weezer so like to be fit enough to make it round without feeling out of breath! Brushingboots - I doubt you are  unable to do 30mins of cardio work due to pins, isnt cycling one of the main exercises given post op to help people recover? cycling is as good as running for a cardio workout.


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## icestationzebra (26 October 2010)

TGM said:



			I don't think anyone on here is saying overweight riders shouldn't ride at all.  What IS being said, is that if overweight riders want to compete seriously, or even want to improve their performance at the lower levels, then they should consider losing weight and that their instructors shouldn't be afraid to point that out!  

One poster on here made a comment about seeing rider errors in people's sigs on here - but you can bet if those riders had a lesson then their instructor would point out those errors - whether it is being left behind, bad hands, in front of the movement, etc.  However, there are many instructors who can see weight is hindering their pupil's progress, and are too scared to raise the issue.

I am happy to admit that I am not built for riding, being short with stumpy legs!  However, when I was competing on a regular basis I was a size 8 and found riding a lot easier than I do now at a size 12 with flabby thighs!
		
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Well reasoned TGM


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## PucciNPoni (26 October 2010)

LEC said:



			So do you think instructors should be harsher and point some of these things out? Are we in a society now that tries to soothe too much? If you are entering a competition to be judged on your riding would you accept these comments? How can we educate riders better as this problem will surely only keep on growing? Thoughts?
		
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Wow, just spent about 20 minutes reading all the repsonses on here, and rather than trying to get my head round all the different directions this thread has gone, I'd like to just reply to the OP. 

I too have seen very large riders (20stone ish) riding large horses, able to carry their weight, but the riders looked unbalanced.  I've also seen slim riders look unbalanced.  Neither is a pretty picture, IMO.  And if a riding instructor is being paid for an opinion, I think that if it is their opinion that a rider either needs to lose weight or to gain strength etc, then they should educate their pupil/client.

When I got back in to riding after a ten  year break, I weighed 9stone (I'm 5'3"), could run 10k in an hour (good for me anyway!), was very well muscled with good core stability.  I had been going to the gym for ten years instead of riding!  Also, I'm a dog groomer and work on my feet day in and day out, lifting and running about. So when I got back in to riding, I couldn't afford to do both (time or financially) and kept up the running on my own for a bit - but then even time wise I just couldn't cope with a horse on DIY.  So over the past five years now, I've put on a stone.  My horse was off work for nearly a year, so even more weight went on.

So a few months ago, I'm struggling with a new horse...and the problem has to do with BALANCE!  So my RI very politely and tactfully told me that arse is too big for my saddle! LOL  That's what I needed to hear and she's right.  I tease her about it, but she's so right and I'm glad she's said something about it.  So I'm on the road to losing a bit of weight cos I know HOW, just needed the kick up the fat backside to do it.  (thank you Madame Whiplash!).

I probably would however take umbrage with a judge telling me this.  My RI is a different story.


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## Gamebird (26 October 2010)

And I think that the other point that was raised (by BaggyBreeches and myself amongst others) is that some of us 'competition riders' aspire to compete against the pros on an equal basis. Maybe not at Badminton or at Aintree but certainly at Nov BE or PTP Ladies Open level. If being fit enough to truly do the job well entails being half a stone lighter - whether that's to help your core strength for the dressage, support your horse over the last XC fence or pull up after 3 miles without being seriously out of breath - then are we wrong to try to put ourselves on an even footing?

Like I said before - if I can improve my performance by 10% by losing 10% of my bodyweight and being 10% fitter then I'm up for it, no question.


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## KatB (26 October 2010)

Gamebird said:



			And I think that the other point that was raised (by BaggyBreeches and myself amongst others) is that some of us 'competition riders' aspire to compete against the pros on an equal basis. Maybe not at Badminton or at Aintree but certainly at Nov BE or PTP Ladies Open level. If being fit enough to truly do the job well entails being half a stone lighter - whether that's to help your core strength for the dressage, support your horse over the last XC fence or pull up after 3 miles without being seriously out of breath - then are we wrong to try to put ourselves on an even footing?

Like I said before - if I can improve my performance by 10% by losing 10% of my bodyweight and being 10% fitter then I'm up for it, no question.
		
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Completely agree! It is all about being as EFFECTIVE as you possibly can, and without doubt fitness will help that, and by increasing muscle tone and core strength, you will be able to be at the top of your game. Doesn't mean this level of fitness and effectiveness will fit some peoples "ideal" of a size 6 perfectly proportioned rider though!


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## Foxford (26 October 2010)

My husband is an amateur triathlete and he has been told by his swimming coach and a cycling buddy if he wants to improve his times he needs to lose weight. Maybe men are just more brutally honest! My husband is not at all fat, think a slim rugby build.

I would have no problem with being told to lose weight to improve an aspect of my performance, but then I'm quite thick skinned. I have been extremely thin, as a teenager growing up I was a size 6 and 5'10". Now I'm a size 12 and happy!!! But people did frequently comment that I was too thin. It definately seen as more acceptable to comment on a thin persons weight.


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## louisem (26 October 2010)

I am skinny;with skinny calves but chunky arms and shoulders,as a showjumper,riding horses over fences 1.30plus I do think I have an advantage. I do not believe,however it makes me a better rider than someone who weighs 20kg more than me!!! Racehorses run faster carrying less weight,so it stands to reason that showjumpers should be able to jump higher (easier) carrying less weight...
BUT, as has been said before,balance and technique can and will trump 'just being lightweight' I know many riders,male and female,weighing up to twice my bodyweight who have feeling and know-how,have experience and routine and in no way hinder their horse through being heavier,and who could ride any 'lightweight' into the ground....
I also know a few more who,despite being near the top of their discipline,would like to lose several kilos to improve their form....


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## Kokopelli (26 October 2010)

My view on it is the horses have to be fit to compete on a reugular basis so why shouldn't the rider be fit? I think it not a weight issue as such but a fitness issue and if a heavy rider was fit then they would not cause a horse much harm.

A horses skin weighs A LOT but moves with the horse so they don't feel it, if a rider moved with the horse they would not feel the weight as much.

However, I personally would be distraught if someone said to me I was too heavy to ride, having had problems with image and staying slim a couple of years back I've only just got confidence in my size (which is not big) as I have no self confidence, if someone said I was overweight I would go into a downward spiral again making me ill.


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## *hic* (26 October 2010)

thought better of it.


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## Prince33Sp4rkle (26 October 2010)

iv nothing aginst larger people riding or competing, but its got to be horse and disipline appropriate......its easy for me to say because im naturally skinny and bony, but people do sometimes need to look to themselves before blaming the horse......if they were fitter and a stone lighter, would the horse be less resistant, more forward etc....

i really honestly feel for people who have a medical issue that either predisposes (sp?) them to weight gain or means they cannot exercise enough to lose it, but in that case feel they need to find a horse that can cope, and then pick a disipline to suit that horse IE if you are too big for an event type to carry you easily round the XC, buy a chunkier warmblood or draft cross and do some dressage or SJ.

i agree with Kerilli ref tall and skinny helping balance-i do a lot of re-schooling of thugs and spoilt brats, and some really seriously spit the dummy, and i doubt id be able to follow the movement and stick on board if i was a lot bigger. momentum would be greater, more of me to move quickly etc etc. in the same vein i disagree that you need a lot of muscle or weight to do anything with horses, at 5'7 and now 7 stone 10, theres not a lot of me to fight with, but i ride some of the vilest sods around and manage to mould them back in to decent equine citizens!


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## kerilli (26 October 2010)

jemima_too, oh, shame, that was a good post.
first of all, good luck tomorrow. that's an enviable dressage sheet in anyone's book. 
since you've thought better of it, I won't post the rest of what I was going to say, but I assure you it wasn't negative...


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## now_loves_mares (26 October 2010)

Oh my - quite a thread! I have to confess to only having read a small fraction of it, but Jemima's post made me think the thread had gone a long way off topic.....(that's a lovely dressage sheet by the way, I hope your comp tomorrow goes just as well!)

FWIW, I should be upfront and say I'm the 5'6" 8-stone rider that I think you all love to hate (though not a weakling due to the associated chores that go with horses). Therefore I can't say how I'd feel if I was told by a judge or instructor that losing weight would help my riding, as it's not a personally emotive issue for me.

However, the OP asked whether we thought that it was someone's responsibility to point out that this would improve someone's riding and overall performance. I'm not sure that it's the judge's job, they point out the technicalities (eg, you are out of balance) but I think it's up to the rider to work with their instructor on the root cause of those issues. So I do feel in some circumstances, it should be up to the instructor. You pay them to tell you how to ride better - I'd therefore expect to get my money's worth. I've been told by my instructor various things such as "your horse is too fat", "you  aren't fit enough", "do some pilates" that sort of thing (not all in one day though ). I take them to mean - Here is a limitating factor (call it a blocker if you will) that is hampering my ability to win/progress. But my instructor knows I'm competitive, I've come to her to hear it warts and all. I think it's maybe worthwhile having an upfront conversation with a new instructor as to what you expect. But let's say in theory you'd been getting the comment LEC remarked on (ie Out of balance) for 2 or 3 years, and been going to lessons but never seeing an improvement; would you feel cheated if it transpired it was due to weight, but no-one had ever pointed it out? I think most people would feel it was 100% your instructor's duty to say the things like "you are out of balance because your saddle slopes backward" or "you are out of balance because you ride with too long stirrups"; but seems like not everyone agrees that it's the same when the issue is weight?

From what I can tell, no-one was saying "fat people shouldn't ride". I do find it sad how sometimes these posts degenerate so far away from the original point 

(sorry for all the quotation marks, it seemed the only way  )


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## Saucisson (26 October 2010)

OH has told me more than once that I need to loose weight for when I start competetive riding (this winter - fingers crossed).  He's right, I do.  I'm not huge but I'm definitely squishy and I find that fatter thighs and a wobbly gut definitely hinder my balance and strength (doesn't help being short in the leg).  I will do it for my horse - if we want to do well together, I need to help him out by making his job easier!  He himself has lost plenty of weight since I've had him.......

Mind you, OH is no diplomat.  He went to his fancy lesson with his fancy instructor last week.  He went to look at the next lesson and it was a rather large girl.

I quote OH "if I was her horse I'd be calling my union" and he did have a point. 

I think that we all know what's a good weight for ourselves.  It's in ours and our horses interests to try not to be too huge.  By this, I tend to mean wibbly-wobbly fat, not just big lasses - if ya catch my drift......


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## alwaysbroke (26 October 2010)

Interesting thread.

I am currently going round in circles in my head re my weight.

On the plus side I am 5' 7 with my height being in my legs, on the negative side I FEEL like I am overweight,(hence my tongue in check post last week, saying my bum looked big in a hunting pic) statistically I am within normal limits for my height. My mother was right, once past 40 the weight is too easy to put on and VERY difficult to lose.

I have various health issues, exercising to get fitter is proving almost impossible, I have cut down on my  intake, and now eat much more healthy, but I still feel uncomfortable. The horses I ride dont appear to have any issues with me, but it doesn't stop me worrying about them, to the point I almost feel like giving up, something that I dread having to do. Atm I wouldn't dream of riding round a xc, but would be up to a dressage test or two, I suppose it comes down to the rider knowing their limits, perhaps some do and others dont.


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## coreteam1 (26 October 2010)

I'm a large person (constantly battling with Chocolate!) and 5ft 9 so have longer legs which help   and ride a large 17.1 horse.  Ride the right size horse for your size, enjoy yourself and love you horse

Oh yeh nearly forgot... picture of me below racing at Southwell on Monday 







http://www.flickr.com/photos/32105456@N06/5118226999/ by [url=http://www.flickr.com/people/32105456@N06/


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## stencilface (26 October 2010)

Saucisson said:



			Mind you, OH is no diplomat.  He went to his fancy lesson with his fancy instructor last week.  He went to look at the next lesson and it was a rather large girl.

I quote OH "if I was her horse I'd be calling my union" and he did have a point. 

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I can see how that wouldn't be pleasant to be on the receiving end of, but still funny.  Then again, am I right in thinking that your OH (and you?) are not british?  I think its the british who have an issue with this.  When I went shopping in Rome a shop assistant (me being size 12) had no qualms about telling me she didn't have anything big enough for me in her shop! 

I think tbh, many people on here are arguing for the same point (its a bit like listening to Jeremy Vine....).  I'll be honest, I don't like seeing bigger, unbalanced unfit riders on horses.  I don't like seeing any unbalanced unfit riders, but if they have less weight to fall around then imho, its not as bad.

Having said that, by some of your standards I am not exactly small, and neither am I at the peak of fitness or the best rider in the world


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## DanaHart (26 October 2010)

alwaysbroke said:



			Interesting thread.

I am currently going round in circles in my head re my weight.

On the plus side I am 5' 7 with my height being in my legs, on the negative side I FEEL like I am overweight,(hence my tongue in check post last week, saying my bum looked big in a hunting pic) statistically I am within normal limits for my height. My mother was right, once past 40 the weight is too easy to put on and VERY difficult to lose.

I have various health issues, exercising to get fitter is proving almost impossible, I have cut down on my  intake, and now eat much more healthy, but I still feel uncomfortable. The horses I ride dont appear to have any issues with me, but it doesn't stop me worrying about them,
		
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Echo this..... I am 6'2" tall and weigh around 13 stone, my horse is a MW 17.1hh and well capable of carrying me, but I constantly worry about my weight and I would really like to lose about a stone to feel trully comfortable riding her.....

I once asked a question...... how fat is too fat to ride?  I was shot down in flames, but I was trully interested in peoples opinions (I didn't want to offend anyone), but surely there is an upper weight limit on what a horse should be expected to carry...... If I were to approach a lot of the riding schools about riding lessons on their horses, I would be too heavy, as they have a 12 stone limit.


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## SO1 (26 October 2010)

if we all waited until we looked slim and elegant and rode perfectly there would be very few people out competing! 

i think as long as someone is suitably mounted then anyone of any shape or size should be allowed to complete without being ridiculed. And I am sure no-one would ever suggest disabled people should not be able to compete just because they might not have full use of all their limbs so might find it harder to balance.

yes they may not look as elegant in the arena as a slim young beautiful person but does it really matter that much that someone needs to start a post on it that may make people feels insecure? If people find it acceptable for overweight people to hack out or ride in the school then what is the difference with competing especially at the lower levels? There are lots of reasons why people may have riding faults or find it harder to balance so why pick on overweight people.  

There are plenty enough people who are not overweight who feel insecure about their weight as it is and it stops them living life to the full and I think being overweight should not stop people from having a go at something if they want to as long as it does not seriously endanger their health or that or their horses. 

Being overweight also does not mean that some is unfit as you need a basic level of fitness to be able to compete and people might actually be trying to lose weight.

I am a short slim person so I am not being defensive.


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## Seth (26 October 2010)

There's a couple of people on this forum who post pictures and they look like they can hardly bend their legs because they're so fat and short at the same time. I don't understand how you can balance and use yourself properly without fit, muscled legs at least. I've never looked at someone with thunder thighs riding and thought 'they're good', it's impossible to tell  I work in racing and work hard to stay slim and fit, so why shouldn't other riders.


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## SO1 (26 October 2010)

i am afraid i do not agree with this - this amazing young lady has no legs and I think she is balanced and doing a super job

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekZAJy_d0ns




Seth said:



			I don't understand how you can balance and use yourself properly without fit, muscled legs at least.
		
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## Firewell (26 October 2010)

You say this thread is about fat competition riders... Oh crap I forgot that competition riders only apply to those who compete over elementary BD, foxhunter SJ and 1* BE. Even though the lower levels forking out to compete are what actually keep BD,BS and BE afloat. Oops my bad...
Do I think you should tell a fat person that they are hindering their horse and need to loose weight to be successful??? NO, I think a good trainer will work with what their client is, encourage them and give them confidence. All you technically overweight riders who have commented on this thread have admitted you could lose weight (and are trying to lose weight), I think if you are larger... You know about it. How couldn't you in this society!

And btw I'm not fat, I weigh 7/8 stone and am 5ft6. However I did think I was fat as a teenager and tried to diet like all my friends did... One nearly died of anorexia.

Talking about weight is not something to glib about on a forum. We are all clever people... We know slim riders are more athletic it's not rocket science but it doesn't mean heavier riders can not be capable. We have friends on this forum who could be reading this that don't confirm no normal sizes and do you want to upset these people?


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## coreteam1 (26 October 2010)

Seth said:



			There's a couple of people on this forum who post pictures and they look like they can hardly bend their legs because they're so fat and short at the same time. I don't understand how you can balance and use yourself properly without fit, muscled legs at least..
		
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I can't believe you said this.  How rude you are.  

PEOPLE WHO MAKE THESE SORT OF COMMENTS ARE THE VERY REASON THESE POSTS SHOULD NEVER BE STARTED.

Comments like this should be reported it's outrageous


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## Lolo (26 October 2010)

janey said:



			I can't believe you said this.  How rude you are.  

PEOPLE WHO MAKE THESE SORT OF COMMENTS ARE THE VERY REASON THESE POSTS SHOULD NEVER BE STARTED.

Comments like this should be reported it's outrageous
		
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But, as a short fat person, I agree. If I lost weight I would have been a far more effective rider. And, at 5'2 on tiptoes and size 16, I am fat. No denying it. I eat healthily, and am slowly slimming down, and am actually reasonably fit (ie not dying after an XC round!), but I am fat and so am so careful about what I ride.






^Me on my horse. 

I am lucky in that I do have decent balance, and enough competence to effectively ride but I know my riding was hindered by my weight, especially dressage. If I lost weight, I could have probably got him to go an awful lot better!!

If I were aiming at riding at a high level, I would do everything I could to slim down, and lose a lot of weight and get fit. There are different levels of competition rider, and although riding at a competition technically makes you a competition rider, I believe a competition rider is someone who rides at competitions for more than fun. Thats what I think this post was about- not the average comp rider who does 2'3/ prelim dressage!

ETA: If you take offence at someone saying that your so fat you can hardly bend your knees, you probably need to do something about it... Unless of course you took offence on behalf of those people, at which point you need to let them be offended first! I personally took no offence, and take no offence, and being told I'm overweight. Because I know I am.


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## Baggybreeches (27 October 2010)

Lolo, you look to be a similar build to me, and this what I am getting at, to be competitive at RC/unaff level I don't need to make the extra effort required when competing at a higher level. I agree that some people don't take the whole 'picture' into consideration, but the reason racing using weight as a handicapping system is because additional weight hinders horses!
BTW can I just add that your horse has a lovely genuine expression!


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## MissMincePie&Brandy (27 October 2010)

LEC said:



			Possibly controversial  but I was running some unaff dressage a few weekends ago and watched a pair doing their test. It was shocking. The rider was far too fat. There was no balance, no core and it just looked absolutely awful. I spoke to the judge as I was collecting the score sheets and throughout the test the judge had written lost balance. This rider clearly knew what they were doing but their weight was really hindering their riding. 

Before you think what a cow I am, I would like to add that I am not in anyway a skinny mini being built like a brick outhouse and having the thighs of a rugby player. Size 12 to me is a far and distant dream! In April I hit 13 stone and was shocked by photos but more than that I could not ride properly as my thighs hindered my seat , I normally have great core strength but I was flabby, all over the place and my balance was not as good. After that I have made a huge effort to lose the weight, get fitter and my riding is better as a result though I seem to have ruined my best breeches by squeezing my lardy arse into them! 

So do you think instructors should be harsher and point some of these things out? Are we in a society now that tries to soothe too much? If you are entering a competition to be judged on your riding would you accept these comments? How can we educate riders better as this problem will surely only keep on growing? Thoughts?
		
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I haven't read through the whole thread, but just answering the OPs question.  My instructer does tell those she teaches if they need to get fitter.  With regards to myself, my riding is the only thing that gives me the incentive to stay fit. I have been jogging recently in anticipation of getting a new horse 

The world is made up of all sorts though, and I'd never mention to a fat person they ought to lose weight or get fitter, unless I thought the horse was suffering, but it would have to be a pretty extreme case for that probably.


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## brighteyes (27 October 2010)

I think that  competitive riders can't possibly be as fit as they _might_ be if they are carrying excess pounds. They can't be as flexible if flab is encasing the areas around a 'folding point' and their altered centre gravity must play some part in their ability to balance - and I'm talking physics, not skill.  

I don't think it can be argued, either, that a rider of between 8 and 12 stones in weight causes anywhere near the same amount of strain to a horse's legs and back on landing over a big fence or performing advanced dressage movements as a rider of 15 stones and upwards, regardless of a horse's weight-carrying capability.  All this business of 'riding light' when talking of those already riding to a high standard doesn't make any sense at all to me.  Extra weight detrimentally affects performance. The racing industry seem to have cottoned on to this a long time ago and I won't be putting any money on the horse with the 16 stone jockey up top.

I'm really not sure how competitive riders can overlook this fundamental fact.  Surely, you need to be at or very near your optimum weight and size to perform at your very best.  Goodness knows why they would want to shorten their odds of winning or inconvenience their horse maybe to the point of injury (or at least serious discomfort) for want of a proper regime is beyond me.  I think it's a bit arrogant really, to inflict your unnecessary excess weight on a performance animal.  Or any animal come to that.


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## brighthair (27 October 2010)

I found this thread really interesting to read with everyones views. I am over most peoples ideal weight limit, and certainly over most riding schools weight limits, and if you go off BMI, about 2.5 stones over the top weight for my height. I'm just under 5ft11 so the long legs are on my side! I'm very careful about which horses I ride, and I do ride lightly, and I am balanced. I struggle with exercising because of cholinergic urticaria but I do what I can. My legs are solid muscle, especially my thighs (as anyone who saw Godiva can see!) I tend to carry weight on my boobs and tummy. I am fit enough for what I do, but if I suddenly decided to take up eventing (don't worry, I'd have to find some nerves somewhere!) I would be looking at a fitness programme for me.
I don't look my weight, as my doctor keeps telling me - I think he thinks I have bricks in my pockets when he weighs me as he always looks puzzled. 
I think as long as you are balanced, of an appropriate weight for your horse and fit for the job both you and your horse are doing, then it's all fine


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## timestwo (27 October 2010)

I'm really shocked at this thread. 

I'm a fat rider. 
Do you guys think I don't know I'm fat? 
Who decided that I need to be told I'm fat?

Did you stop to think about why I might be fat?

In my case it's because I'm recovering from a life threatening illness.

Nice to know theres people out there who are going to tell me at shows how fat I am - I'd give you a two word answer  and tell you it's none of your business.


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## TGM (27 October 2010)

timestwo said:



			Nice to know theres people out there who are going to tell me at shows how fat I am - I'd give you a two word answer  and tell you it's none of your business.
		
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The OP did not suggest that at all - she actually wondered whether instructors should suggest to their pupils that they should lose weight to improve their riding ability.  If there are circumstances, such as yours, where the excess weight is unavoidable, then presumably the individual instructor would be aware of that anyway.


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## OEH (27 October 2010)

I'm finding this thread fascinating. I'm fat and I'm making a real effort to loose weight, mainly because I think I look bad on my lovely elegant horse.  BUT you've all mentioned fat thighs interfereing with riding and my thighs really were large, but I've now lost about a stone and my horse is going much better.  Now I don't think that this is because I'm lighter, because he goes beautifully for a heavy man who used to ride him, but that man didn't have fat thighs! So maybe he's going better because I'm now riding more effectively. 

Having lost a stone I was finding the motivation to loose more hard, especially with this nasty weather, but this thread has reinspired me to loose the other stone I want to get rid of.


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## kerilli (27 October 2010)

OEH said:



			I'm finding this thread fascinating. I'm fat and I'm making a real effort to loose weight, mainly because I think I look bad on my lovely elegant horse.  BUT you've all mentioned fat thighs interfereing with riding and my thighs really were large, but I've now lost about a stone and my horse is going much better.  Now I don't think that this is because I'm lighter, because he goes beautifully for a heavy man who used to ride him, but that man didn't have fat thighs! So maybe he's going better because I'm now riding more effectively. 

Having lost a stone I was finding the motivation to loose more hard, especially with this nasty weather, but this thread has reinspired me to loose the other stone I want to get rid of.
		
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This is it, in a nutshell. Thank goodness someone's seen what some of us were trying to say -  that fat gets in the way of being the best rider that one can be. 

My bum and thighs are a stone heavier than they should be. This thread has really drummed into me that I need to face up to it, get on with it and lose that stone. So, thanks everyone.   

timestwo - wow, so this thread was all directly aimed at you, was it? Gosh, we are all very sorry.
Seriously - it wasn't aimed at anyone.


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## Caz89 (27 October 2010)

hmmm what is classed as "fat" these days? I don't really think it effects anybody else so people shouldn't worry about others and their weight unless obviously it's causing discomfort to the horse. As long as that person if happy in their own skin it's no one elses business like. The only thing that amazes me is how you manage to ride without getting absolutley shattered!? I'm a size 8-10 and when I first got back into riding I couldnt school for more than like 10 mins without being ridiculously nakered lol  thankfully now I'm a bit fitter


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## NELSON11 (27 October 2010)

I think everyone is entitled to their opinion and we have lots of them on this thread. 

I know I personally ride better when I feel lighter and fitter. And I believe my horse goes better for me. There will always be reasons why people cannot lose weight through excercise etc as a result of accidents/illnesses. And in that instance so long as they are matched to their mounts correctly in size distribution then I am fine with that. One thing I will say is though, we can control what goes in our mouths.

I am a size 16 and nearly 5ft 11. I know I have fat thighs and big butt but doing my hardest to lose weight and get fitter. Gave up smoking 4 weeks ago also. I wouldn't expect my horse to lug me round a cross country course until I had improved my fitness. I may still be a size 16 but hopefully bit lighter and fitter.

And yes also have seen some terrible skinnies hanging onto mouths etc.

Very interesting though to see other peoples comments, one thing I do feel self conscious of is riding in front of an audience when on the heavier side.


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## Caz89 (27 October 2010)

Just a thought but maybe the horse goes better/nicer when you are slimmer not because of the actual weight of you but because of the way you feel about your weight? You feel happier about yourself? Not a proven fact but just an idea. I know if I feel good about myself when i'm riding my horse always goes better for me


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## applecart14 (27 October 2010)

LEC said:



			Possibly controversial  but I was running some unaff dressage a few weekends ago and watched a pair doing their test. It was shocking. The rider was far too fat. There was no balance, no core and it just looked absolutely awful. I spoke to the judge as I was collecting the score sheets and throughout the test the judge had written lost balance. This rider clearly knew what they were doing but their weight was really hindering their riding. 

Before you think what a cow I am, I would like to add that I am not in anyway a skinny mini being built like a brick outhouse and having the thighs of a rugby player. Size 12 to me is a far and distant dream! In April I hit 13 stone and was shocked by photos but more than that I could not ride properly as my thighs hindered my seat , I normally have great core strength but I was flabby, all over the place and my balance was not as good. After that I have made a huge effort to lose the weight, get fitter and my riding is better as a result though I seem to have ruined my best breeches by squeezing my lardy arse into them! 

So do you think instructors should be harsher and point some of these things out? Are we in a society now that tries to soothe too much? If you are entering a competition to be judged on your riding would you accept these comments? How can we educate riders better as this problem will surely only keep on growing? Thoughts?
		
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I would like to lose weight.  I am five foot eleven, weigh 15 stone (I am not too shy/embarrased/pretentious to mention this) and I am very concious that I am heavy particularly when I see photos of myself in white jods.  But I acknowledge I have a problem and I am trying to do something about it.  Sometimes its difficult to make lifestyle choices, often due to finances, my main reason is that my OH eats poorly, often eating half a packet of biscuits in one sitting, he also eats chocolate and cakes, sometimes he will eat two chocolate bars and three Mr Kipling cakes in one day.  I find it very hard to resist.  Also the finance thing - eating healthily does not come cheap despite what Jamie Oliver and Co expect us to believe.  I would love to 'look the part' but it seems very difficult.  I gave up smoking over a year ago now, a fact that I am extremely proud of.  My weight is my next life goal and then when i have reached the weight that will make me 'happy' I will affiliate dressage, this is my long term goal now.  Another goal is Dad bribing me with £200 if I lose two stone, and Mum saying she will buy me a Pikeur show jacket to flatter my figure (if I ever get a figure)!!  I feel I owe it to my boy to lose the weight, and also to my bad back which would, I feel, really make a difference to the pain I am experiencing every time I jump my horse.

I am already swimming, sometimes twice a week, and I am going to try and walk my partners dog more (see siggy) as you will see she is also very overweight too, so it will do us both good.


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## Kat (27 October 2010)

Crikey.....I've read most of it now....... 

Personally I think it all comes down to both the horse and the rider being fit for the job they are doing. 

The fitness required to do RC SJ and unaffiliated prelim dressage is not the same as a 4* event. And the competitors at 4* are pros (predominantly) and therefore like other sportsmen and models actors etc it is their job to keep their weight and fitness at optimum levels. For the average hobby rider it is much more of a compromise. 

There will be an optimum weight and fitness level for everyone. Thinner is not always best, there comes a point when loosing more weight reduces muscle and makes you less effective. Just ask polar explorers and mountaineers who intentionally bulk up so that they can "afford" to loose weight during an expedition. Peoples natural build and frame affect the way they look too. 

At the end of the day people owe it to their horses to be fit enough for the job, it is simply not fair to collapse in a heap at the end of a XC course - if you are doing this your fitness needs to improve, or you need to accept that you cannot compete at that level. This is the same for any sport, but riders seem to be more sensitive and less willing to address this than in other sports. 

It is possible to be balanced and effective and ride well despite being overweight, so in the OP I think the judge was correct to simply write unbalanced. It is possible to be overweight but to have excellent core muscles hidden under the fat. The rider's weight may be a factor but a thin person can just as easily have poor core stability, poor balance and so on. It is down to the rider to examine the causes and solutions for her lack of balance, possibly with the assistance of her instructor. 

Personally - my own instructor has recently lost quite a lot of weight and has said that it improves her riding, makes her feel better and you can see it in the results she has had this year. She is quick to comment when people have lost weight, and I think that is a more positive and encouraging way of dealing with the issue rather than saying "it is no wonder your a rubbish rider you big fatty"!!! Having said that she is also prepared to say if someone needs to work on their fitness, especially if being asked how to sort a problem. With hobby riders I think this is absolutely the right approach, with serious competitors I think it would be dishonest and misleading not to "train" the whole picture and someone coaching at a serious level should be prepared to tackle rider fitness as they would horse fitness. 

Me - I'm a bit over my ideal BMI, but I cope fine with the riding I'm doing at the moment. However if I was going to compete XC I would need to be fitter. I'm fine for dressage and SJ at the level I ride. My size and shape don't cause me any problems as at 5ft8" and a size 14 I've not got fat getting in the way. My legs have virtually no fat, I build muscle on my legs easily and they are very solid, I carry a bit more weight on my stomach than I would like and I have big boobs. Underneath my stomach my core muscles are strong. At the level I am at there is no need to work harder at my fitness or size but if I went up a level I accept I would have to work at it. 

That has to sum it up, if we want to perform at our optimum level in any sport then we need to be at optimal weight and fitness for that sport (it will be different for riding to marathon running and different again to rowing). But not being at your optimal fitness doesn't make you rubbish or mean that judges should comment upon it. 

The exception being showing. If you compete in showing you need to accept that you are being judged on appearence and if loosing a stone will make the overall picture look better it will be reflected in your placings! I was stunned at HOYS to see people with bulging jacket buttons struggling to run in order to trot their horse up!


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## PucciNPoni (27 October 2010)

Katt said:



			Me - I'm a bit over my ideal BMI, but I cope fine with the riding I'm doing at the moment. However if I was going to compete XC I would need to be fitter. I'm fine for dressage and SJ at the level I ride. My size and shape don't cause me any problems as at 5ft8" and a size 14 I've not got fat getting in the way. My legs have virtually no fat, I build muscle on my legs easily and they are very solid, I carry a bit more weight on my stomach than I would like and I have big boobs. Underneath my stomach my core muscles are strong. At the level I am at there is no need to work harder at my fitness or size but if I went up a level I accept I would have to work at it. 

QUOTE]



Five eight and a size 14 I wouldn't consider fat by any means!   Which is what I hate about BMI - personally I don't find that BMI is a very good indication of fitness or fatness.  There was a show in the US ages ago about a national fitness champion (eg personal trainer/body builder and fitness guru) who went to a doctors office to be weighed and measured  - she weighed something like 157 lbs and was 5'7" and her BMI was too high.  She was wearing a pair of loose trousers and a sweater.  The doctor told her to lose some weight to be at optimal BMI.  She stripped down to her skivvies and was nothing but rippling muscle and like 10% body fat (or less...can't recall exactly , but it was ridiculously low for a female).  

RC level riders who are taught might not necessarily need to be berated for their weight if it's an issue.  But if they are wanting to advance and their weight IS holding them back, then a RI might feel obliged to say so.
		
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## bigboyrocky (27 October 2010)

kerilli said:



			My bum and thighs are a stone heavier than they should be. This thread has really drummed into me that I need to face up to it, get on with it and lose that stone. So, thanks everyone.   

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Ditto  i think everyones going to be dieting/exercising more for the next few weeks now!!


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## Baggybreeches (27 October 2010)

PucciNPoni said:



			*Hooray*  That was the point in the first place!
		
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## kerilli (27 October 2010)

PucciNPoni said:



			Five eight and a size 14 I wouldn't consider fat by any means!   Which is what I hate about BMI - personally I don't find that BMI is a very good indication of fitness or fatness.  There was a show in the US ages ago about a national fitness champion (eg personal trainer/body builder and fitness guru) who went to a doctors office to be weighed and measured  - she weighed something like 157 lbs and was 5'7" and her BMI was too high.  She was wearing a pair of loose trousers and a sweater.  The doctor told her to lose some weight to be at optimal BMI.  She stripped down to her skivvies and was nothing but rippling muscle and like 10% body fat (or less...can't recall exactly , but it was ridiculously low for a female).  

RC level riders who are taught might not necessarily need to be berated for their weight if it's an issue.  But if they are wanting to advance and their weight IS holding them back, then a RI might feel obliged to say so.
		
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But hardly anyone mentioned BMI on this thread anyway, did they?! It's a guideline, but not a reliable one, especially for very fit people, since muscle weighs more than fat etc. It's well documented that many top rugby players count as obese (or even morbidly obese) if just their BMI is checked.

We were talking about noticeable fat, not BMIs.
Oh, and just in case i'm being accused of being "too shy/embarrassed/pretentious to mention" my weight etc, it's 10 stone 12, 5'10", BMI 22.5 (so, well within guidelines... but they don't take fat flobby thighs and bum into account, do they?)


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## PucciNPoni (27 October 2010)

kerilli said:



			But hardly anyone mentioned BMI on this thread anyway, did they?! It's a guideline, but not a reliable one, especially for very fit people, since muscle weighs more than fat etc. It's well documented that many top rugby players count as obese (or even morbidly obese) if just their BMI is checked.

We were talking about noticeable fat, not BMIs.
Oh, and just in case i'm being accused of being "too shy/embarrassed/pretentious to mention" my weight etc, it's 10 stone 12, 5'10", BMI 22.5 (so, well within guidelines... but they don't take fat flobby thighs and bum into account, do they?)
		
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It was battered around a few times.  And I'll admit that it was a slight wandering off topic.  But what you say about it being a guideline (and not a reliable) one was exactly my point.  I dunno why I touched on that (except that hte poster directly in front of me did, I guess).  

And yep, noticeable fat...in my first post (several pages back) I mentioned that my own RI told me that my balance issues (when I was asking her WHY I was having problems) stemmed from my erse being too big for my saddle.  LOL.  I'm not cross --just embarassed that I managed to allow an extra stone (or two) creep onto my small frame over the past 7 years since I stopped gyming.  However, I am off to go see if I can find myself a second hand treadmill on ebay!  I wonder if there's going to be shortage after this thread?!  And in my neck of the woods, there will suddenly be a lack of cake sales!


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## little_flea (27 October 2010)

bigboyrocky said:



			Ditto  i think everyones going to be dieting/exercising more for the next few weeks now!! 

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Though I shall mainly be focussing on growing longer legs. :-D


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## Kat (27 October 2010)

PucciNPoni said:





Katt said:



			Me - I'm a bit over my ideal BMI, but I cope fine with the riding I'm doing at the moment. However if I was going to compete XC I would need to be fitter. I'm fine for dressage and SJ at the level I ride. My size and shape don't cause me any problems as at 5ft8" and a size 14 I've not got fat getting in the way. My legs have virtually no fat, I build muscle on my legs easily and they are very solid, I carry a bit more weight on my stomach than I would like and I have big boobs. Underneath my stomach my core muscles are strong. At the level I am at there is no need to work harder at my fitness or size but if I went up a level I accept I would have to work at it. 

QUOTE]



Five eight and a size 14 I wouldn't consider fat by any means!   Which is what I hate about BMI - personally I don't find that BMI is a very good indication of fitness or fatness.  There was a show in the US ages ago about a national fitness champion (eg personal trainer/body builder and fitness guru) who went to a doctors office to be weighed and measured  - she weighed something like 157 lbs and was 5'7" and her BMI was too high.  She was wearing a pair of loose trousers and a sweater.  The doctor told her to lose some weight to be at optimal BMI.  She stripped down to her skivvies and was nothing but rippling muscle and like 10% body fat (or less...can't recall exactly , but it was ridiculously low for a female).  

RC level riders who are taught might not necessarily need to be berated for their weight if it's an issue.  But if they are wanting to advance and their weight IS holding them back, then a RI might feel obliged to say so.
		
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Quite - I'm not fat and my BMI confirms that, just a little overweight. My BMI is about 25.5 or 26, so only a little over the normal range, but I know that I could be thinner, I was a good stone lighter when I met DH and by no means skinny! I do know though that a BMI towards the bottom of normal would make me look very thin, I've been there, and I prefer to have boobs rather than protruding hip bones! 

I think the BMI is a pretty reliable indicator for the average person. However it is better viewed alongside a measure of body fat ratio as those with high muscle mass tend to appear overweight according to BMI alone. 

It is generally over BMI 30 that you are considered clinically obese, and at that level I would think you would notice an affect on your riding, even if just hacking out. It would start to inhibit your movement and flexibility, although that doesn't mean that you shouldn't ride. It would also inhibit your movement in day to day life!
		
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## skint1 (27 October 2010)

Leaving aside competing at something like eventing I would say there is a point where your weight would compromise your ability to ride, judging by your own descriptions most of you are not anywhere near this weight/size. 

In the last 18 months I have put on 4 stone, prior to this I was mildy overweight but pretty fit. I used to occasionally ride a big boned horse for 1/2 hour lessons. At that weight  I think I would have been ok balance wise had I always ridden, but I hadn't for 20 years and I felt it was unfair to ask a horse to put up with that so I stopped and said to myself if I could lose 2-3 stone it would be better.

Four stone heavier now and I wouldn't dream of sitting on any horse for any reason, and probably wouldn't even if I could ride before I put on the weight. My weight does effect me in lots of ways I couldn't have imagined four stone earlier and I think at the size I am now even if I could ride I don't think I would, regardless of the horse I had.


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## Weezy (27 October 2010)

kerilli said:



			Oh, and just in case i'm being accused of being "too shy/embarrassed/pretentious to mention" my weight etc, it's 10 stone 12, 5'10", BMI 22.5 (so, well within guidelines... but they don't take fat flobby thighs and bum into account, do they?)
		
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I am currently half a stone heavier than you and about the same height, being just over 5ft10.  If I lost another stone and a half I would look awful IMO - this is me at around 12 stone, I don't think that is too heavy for SJing, but I am sure a lot of people think 12 stone is heavy!  However, I know that my horse is thankful that I have lost 20lbs this year, he certainly goes better.







I don't understand why people take these threads personally.  It goes without saying that the sleeker you are, (not skinny, just the right sleekness for your build), the better you will ride, the better you will run, the better you will do everything as your joints will not be over taxed!  If we ask a horse to run and jump under us, then surely we should be fit enough to run and jump the same distance?


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## brighteyes (27 October 2010)

little_flea said:



			Though I shall mainly be focussing on growing longer legs. :-D
		
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PMSL  - thanks for that, really made me smile


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## Thelwell_Girl (27 October 2010)

little_flea said:
			
		


			Though I shall mainly be focussing on growing longer legs. 

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You and me both 

Though, with a 29" inside leg I can still get into kids jods from the sale rail so maybe my stumps are a good thing


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## NeilM (27 October 2010)

Work and sleep mean I'm very late to this thread. 

That said, I have nothing constructive to add, as it is a subject that I have very strong feelings about.


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## Saucisson (27 October 2010)

I will do it for my horse - if we want to do well together, I need to help him out by making his job easier!  He himself has lost plenty of weight since I've had him.......
		
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I'll just point out that he's the little butterball on the right of my tiny little profile pic.  He is now a lean, mean machine and got his first clear at 1m at the weekend (I know it's not Hickstead but it's his 3rd time at 1m and he won 10 euros )




			I can see how that wouldn't be pleasant to be on the receiving end of, but still funny.  Then again, am I right in thinking that your OH (and you?) are not british?  I think its the british who have an issue with this.  When I went shopping in Rome a shop assistant (me being size 12) had no qualms about telling me she didn't have anything big enough for me in her shop! 

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Maybe?!?  OH is Belgian and I'm British (excusing my rapidly deteriorating English )  To be fair to OH, he is naturally a Slim Jim but he does watch his weight when he needs to.  

I'm impressed by a lot of the intelligent and mature comments on this post about weight and people accepting that it IS better to sit on your horses back with a few less kilos in the trunk.


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## Seth (27 October 2010)

We all judge horse's conformation and can tell what discipline they may excell at, or whether they'll be much use at anything at all - it's the same with riders for me. It's nothing personal, but some human bodies are put together in a way that helps their riding and others aren't. Obviously, fitness and a healthy body weight benefit riders.


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## Thelwell_Girl (27 October 2010)

Seth - My body composition would surely not be compatible at all for riding, but I can't change that. Should I just give up on riding altogether then?


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## JDChaser (27 October 2010)

Nah TG, there's plenty of hacking horses and all rounders who manage with crap confo afterall.     I'd hate to have my 'confo' judged by anyone, lol.


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## HollyWoozle (27 October 2010)

Weezy said:



			I don't understand why people take these threads personally.  It goes without saying that the sleeker you are, (not skinny, just the right sleekness for your build), the better you will ride, the better you will run, the better you will do everything as your joints will not be over taxed!  If we ask a horse to run and jump under us, then surely we should be fit enough to run and jump the same distance?
		
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I agree with this wholeheartedly. 

I am approx 5'8" used to be at least 13 stone 10 and am now around 11 stone (I got down to 10 stone 10 but put a few pounds on over my birthday, on my way back there now). I would like to be 10 stone 7 by Christmas. The slimmer I am, the more I enjoy riding my horse and the better I feel I am at doing so. I feel stronger, more balanced, fitter and also as though I look more graceful as an added bonus. My horse would be perfectly capable of carrying me if I weighed many stone more, especially as we don't compete at all, but I want to make it as easy for her as possible. 

I totally agree that for competition purposes, it is in the best interests of both the rider and the horse for the rider to be of a suitable and healthy weight. Whether or not an overweight rider can take on an XC course with no detriment to their horse, and can be happy with the results, makes no difference to the fact that they could achieve even better results if they were at a more optimum weight (in my opinion).


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## Honey08 (27 October 2010)

I think generally most people are talking sense.  You need to be fit enough to be toned and healthy _within the frame you are given_.  It got heated last night because a few people were quoting size zero to size six as the best size for a rider, which I thought was not the best thing to say on a forum that is full of impressionable teenagers!   In fact it was not the best thing to say full stop!

Personally, even though I have already said that I need to lose weight, I must say that even when I am very slim I have chunky thighs.  I always will have.  Personally I think toned chunky thighs _do_ help you balance.  When I am at the approx. correct weight for my height, if you chopped me in half at my centre of gravity, my lower body would weigh more than my upper body, so I am consequently quite balanced on a horse, and hard to unseat (bit like a weeble!).  What makes me more unbalanced when I put weight on is that my boobies get enormous and heavy, thus making my upper body heavier and changing the balance!  God knows how Katie Price does it!  She should do sports bras in her clothes range!


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## Baggybreeches (27 October 2010)

Honey08 said:



			hard to unseat (bit like a weeble!).  What makes me more unbalanced when I put weight on is that my boobies get enormous and heavy, thus making my upper body heavier and changing the balance!  God knows how Katie Price does it!  She should do sports bras in her clothes range!
		
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*snigger* now known as weeble^^^


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## j1ffy (27 October 2010)

Honey08 said:



			I think generally most people are talking sense.  You need to be fit enough to be toned and healthy _within the frame you are given_.  It got heated last night because a few people were quoting size zero to size six as the best size for a rider, which I thought was not the best thing to say on a forum that is full of impressionable teenagers!   In fact it was not the best thing to say full stop!

Personally, even though I have already said that I need to lose weight, I must say that even when I am very slim I have chunky thighs.  I always will have.  Personally I think toned chunky thighs _do_ help you balance.  When I am at the approx. correct weight for my height, if you chopped me in half at my centre of gravity, my lower body would weigh more than my upper body, so I am consequently quite balanced on a horse, and hard to unseat (bit like a weeble!).  What makes me more unbalanced when I put weight on is that my boobies get enormous and heavy, thus making my upper body heavier and changing the balance!  God knows how Katie Price does it!  She should do sports bras in her clothes range!
		
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Honey08 - you've said almost exactly what I was about to post, except the boob part!!  A couple of years ago I got almost unhealthily slim (right at the bottom of the healthy end on the BMI scale) as I hardly ate carbs and was fit enough to do a sub-2hr half marathon...those were the days   However, even then I had big thighs and they weren't just muscle, there was a fair amount of flab  

I think liposuction is the only answer for me based on some of the other comments about fat thighs, there's no way I can get rid of mine!!


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## Honey08 (27 October 2010)

Baggybreeches said:



			*snigger* now known as weeble^^^
		
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Yeah - apart from now I'm a weeble that has big boobs, so thats even funnier!!    I fell off for the first time in 15v years recently, and totally blame my new big boobs!  

Do they still make weebles, or are you showing your age Baggybreeches?

  Ps.  Am very jealous of your weight loss and consequent baggy breeches!


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## Tharg (27 October 2010)

Balance is more about core strength and length of limb than just weight IMO.  Long legs can help but a long torso as well can hinder, a person who be a thin top heavy rider who could find balance to be more difficult.  I think a wider pelvis helps, anyone else thinks this?

  I am 5'' 6' and carry weight on my hips unfortunately, my riding may be better if I lost weight but if I feel my thighs are in the way I put my hand behind my leg and pull the skin back so the muscle is more flush with the saddle.

  Thinner does not equal more athletic.  Core strength and stamina are seperate to weight.  BMI is flawed as it does not take a persons build into account.


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