# White dots on udders



## ElleSkywalker (27 April 2011)

Hi peeps, this might be a long one so treat at the end for all that get there...

I have a mare who I tried unsucessfully to get in foal last year.  Everytime we tried to cover her, she 'scooted' her bum under her so poor stallion would 'pop' out, so she was never covered sucessfully, last atempted cover 16th July 2010.  Regardless, as it only takes 1,  we had her scanned 29th sept 2010 result was small uterus & not in foal.  

She remainded out with the stallion until the day she was scanned, and from date of last attempted cover she did not come into season again,  which was odd as was out with him for rest July , all of Aug and most of Sept.  Vet did say when she was scanned that she was not the only mare he had heard of that had not cycled in those months due to odd weather. Is worth adding here that she had had 3 seasons while she was out with him before stopping cycling in July.

We have joked  all along that one day will go out to field and Poppy will have a wee foal running round with her, and I have been keeping an eye on her just in case but she has no foaly looking tum/bag or similar.

However tonight I noticed she has some little white dots on her udders, like little grains of sand/sugar.  They are not around where the milk comes out, ie wax, but are on the teat rather than bag. 

Is this something all mares can get, or something associated only with pregnancy? My mare who foaled 4 weeks ago never had anything like this!!  If it helps, if she did take on the 16th July 'covering' she would be around 284 days today.

Jammy dogers all round if still reading


----------



## JanetGeorge (28 April 2011)

ElleSkywalker said:



			I have a mare who I tried unsucessfully to get in foal last year.  Everytime we tried to cover her, she 'scooted' her bum under her so poor stallion would 'pop' out, so she was never covered sucessfully, last atempted cover 16th July 2010.  Regardless, as it only takes 1,  we had her scanned 29th sept 2010 result was small uterus & not in foal.
		
Click to expand...

Um - forgive me if I'm wrong - but I get the feeling you haven't seen many coverings?  Mares tuck themselves down when the stallion approaches to make it easier for him to get in - and it wouldn't cause him to 'pop out' unless she was also galloping for the hills.  But - with horses - it's over VERY quickly! 




			She remainded out with the stallion until the day she was scanned, and from date of last attempted cover she did not come into season again,  which was odd as was out with him for rest July , all of Aug and most of Sept.  Vet did say when she was scanned that she was not the only mare he had heard of that had not cycled in those months due to odd weather.
		
Click to expand...

If she was running with the stallion 24 hours a day it is VERY hard to say with any degree of certainty when she was last covered (or even last in season.)  It would be very UNlikely for a mare to stop cycling in July whatever the weather did - unless she had a very persistent haemorrhagic follicle.  We did have several mares whose cycles were a bit 'off' last summer - as in they'd only stand for the stallion for a day.




			However tonight I noticed she has some little white dots on her udders, like little grains of sand/sugar.  They are not around where the milk comes out, ie wax, but are on the teat rather than bag.
		
Click to expand...

 Baby warts??




			if she did take on the 16th July 'covering' she would be around 284 days today.
		
Click to expand...

If she DID take on the 16th July covering then the vet who scanned her in September should be SHOT!


----------



## Reindeer Rider (28 April 2011)

I have seen the grains you describe on a pregnant mare, but she was very near her due date.  And they were grains.  They could be knocked off when she walked and looked a bit like milk spray.

I saw similar on my pregnant mare when she was about 290 days, but I put it down to residue from the fly spray I was using (avon skin so soft mixed with water). Although more white dots than grains.  Although, I am still using the fly spray and have not seen them since. She is now 316 days.


----------



## hayinamanger (28 April 2011)

I have seen these 'white dots' (no idea what else you could call them!) on a lot of my mares, they are imo insignificant and cause no problems.  Just keep watching your mare's udder for daily changes, most mares (but not all) will wax up and then you will know that foaling is very close-usually within 48hrs.


----------



## ElleSkywalker (28 April 2011)

JanetGeorge said:



			Um - forgive me if I'm wrong - but I get the feeling you haven't seen many coverings?  Mares tuck themselves down when the stallion approaches to make it easier for him to get in - and it wouldn't cause him to 'pop out' unless she was also galloping for the hills.  But - with horses - it's over VERY quickly! 

Click to expand...


Hi Janet, I have seen a few coverings, including my other mare who I was holding at the time, he was not 'in' for long enough and did not ejaculate. We (myself and the stallion owner) held this particular mare too, and the scooting bum under definately caused him to pop out, it went, squat, mount, mare goes  and scoots bum under, stallion pops put and falls of mare. 

The stud owner had never seen anything like it, and even rang a fellow stud for advice as was such a strange thing!! As you say squating for the stallion is usual but this was not normal squating, most strange!!  Mare is a bit smaller than stallion, mare 14hh, stallion 15.1hh.




JanetGeorge said:



			If she was running with the stallion 24 hours a day it is VERY hard to say with any degree of certainty when she was last covered (or even last in season.)
		
Click to expand...

This is most true!! The three seasons before were very obvious, but she could easily have come into season again after this covering that we missed.  



JanetGeorge said:



			- unless she had a very persistent haemorrhagic follicle.  We did have several mares whose cycles were a bit 'off' last summer - as in they'd only stand for the stallion for a day.
		
Click to expand...


When my mare was scanned in Sept the uterus looked normal, there was a CL but not pregnancy, would a persistent haemorrhagic follicle shown up on the scan or is this something that I would have to have investigated further?




JanetGeorge said:



			If she DID take on the 16th July covering then the vet who scanned her in September should be SHOT!
		
Click to expand...

Not wanting to add fuel to the vet shooting fodder, but a vet from the same practice missed 2 other mares pregancys on 35 day scans, and this IS a equine & stud specific vet who are also an AI centre!! Oh dear


----------



## ElleSkywalker (28 April 2011)

elderlycoupleindevon said:



			I have seen these 'white dots' (no idea what else you could call them!) on a lot of my mares, they are imo insignificant and cause no problems.  Just keep watching your mare's udder for daily changes, most mares (but not all) will wax up and then you will know that foaling is very close-usually within 48hrs.
		
Click to expand...

Hi elderlycoupleindevon, were these mares in foal? 

I have found a few references to these dots on american forums, but it strikes me that these spots could appear on mares who aren't in foal, they just don't get spotted as is only people with mares in foal who check udders regularly!


----------



## Revena (28 April 2011)

Unfortunately it seems all too common for vets miss things on scans, it's happened to a couple of friends of mine and it happens very frequently with cattle!


----------



## Reindeer Rider (28 April 2011)

Are there any changes to the 'bag'? I appreciate not all mares start to bag up a couple of months before foal due .  Have you seen any changes to the size of the bag at all?


----------



## amy_b (28 April 2011)

my mare is in foal and has these dots. sort of dusty?! i thought it might be dry skin?! she is in foal...hope I dont get your hopes up 
like you said though, not sure anybody looks at horses boobies if they'r not in foal!


----------



## Spring Feather (28 April 2011)

The white dots on udders are just calcium deposits.  They're perfectly normal in pregnant mares so nothing to worry about


----------



## ElleSkywalker (28 April 2011)

roxysrider said:



			Are there any changes to the 'bag'? I appreciate not all mares start to bag up a couple of months before foal due .  Have you seen any changes to the size of the bag at all?
		
Click to expand...

I did think her teats were looking a bit bigger, but she isn't bagging up or indeed looking pregnant in any other way appart from these weird little dots! Think I am going to have to post some pictures of her....


----------



## ElleSkywalker (28 April 2011)

Spring Feather said:



			The white dots on udders are just calcium deposits.  They're perfectly normal in pregnant mares so nothing to worry about 

Click to expand...

Ahh thats what they are!!! Makes sense I suppose!  Also anecdotaly (sp?!) it seems that mares are getting these around day 270 + which for calcium deposits also makes sense as a sort of pre-cursor to bagging up 

As mentioned, off to groom the pone to take some pictures, hope the dots show up on them!  Also at least you guys can see that other than this she doesn't really look in foal.


----------



## Sportznight (28 April 2011)

I think you should call your vet out to either take a blood sample or stick an arm in - posting pics is always good  but only the vet can say for sure - unless you do indeed wake up one morning to discover an extra 4 hooves bouncing about the place...


----------



## ElleSkywalker (28 April 2011)

Pictures






[/IMG]












[/IMG]

And udders, unfortunately the white dots aren't showing up on the picture, but you can see her 'bag' 






[/IMG]

I know she is a little chubby, it is a work in progress, damn natives living in thin air!!!


----------



## ElleSkywalker (28 April 2011)

Sportznight said:



			I think you should call your vet out to either take a blood sample or stick an arm in - posting pics is always good  but only the vet can say for sure - unless you do indeed wake up one morning to discover an extra 4 hooves bouncing about the place...
		
Click to expand...

Most certainly  vet due out soon to see other mare & foal so can do a bit of investigating while he is here.

Luckily still have foaling stable & foaling cam all set up, and as you can see mare is well nourished (!) and is already on a calcium suppliment as mother of foal refuses to eat it and hate waste so have been giving Poppy Better Bones suppliment for a while now!


----------



## amy_b (28 April 2011)

hehehe!! with the lops of hair on the floor I cant help but have have a 'thelwell' style cartoon in my head!!! how much work is she doing? her belly does look abit low but that could just be lack of work.


----------



## ElleSkywalker (28 April 2011)

She is Thewell's famous pony all grown up!! Have a wee shetland too so is Thelwell city round my gaff!! (maybe we need a tiny miniture colt to come complete the Thelwell farm.....)  She looked better before I 'groomed' her!

She is not in work at the moment as her tum is actually higher now that when she came back from stud.... she looked like she was ready to drop anyday back in September!

Problem for me is she is a bit long backed, where as Willow is very short backed so whereas foaly tum was very obvious on Willow, with Poppys extra back lenght it could be hiding I suppose


----------



## Revena (28 April 2011)

I think that may be you're being a little hopeful, I could be wrong but in the pictures she doesn't look pregnant, either that or she took late. :-/


----------



## ElleSkywalker (28 April 2011)

No she doesn't really look in foal does she?  

I have been looking at her with a mild 'well she could possibly be in foal as out with stallion for 4 months so best to keep an eye out for changes just in case ' eye all along.  When the white dots appeared yesterday, and as I have only seen reference to similar dots in relation to mares in foal, I though I would ask you folks if you had seen/heard of other mares having it 

But as mentioned earlier, non breeding horse owners probably don't check udders often so it could be more common than thought!


----------



## Revena (28 April 2011)

It could still be possible, post if she has any changes!


----------



## Pony_Puzz (28 April 2011)

Spots like these ones?:





 Can just see them  they only started yesterday on my mare though


----------



## ElleSkywalker (28 April 2011)

Pony_Puzz, yes like those, they look like little grains of sand/sugar and are towards to top of the teat rather than the bit where milk comes out, just like on your pic! 

Ravena, certainly will post if anything else changes


----------



## Pony_Puzz (28 April 2011)

Yeah she's only started getting them since her milks went from clear to more amber and sticky 
She never had them before and none of my other mares do, and out of the lot of them she always had the DD's. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you that you find out soon!


----------



## Megibo (28 April 2011)

Pony_Puzz said:



			none of my other mares do, and out of the lot of them she always had the DD's.
		
Click to expand...

that made me chuckle


----------



## ElleSkywalker (6 May 2011)

Ok, so I know am about to come across as an idiot again, but here's the update on Poppys 'white dots'

Vet came out on wends to my other mare who had come out with nice  rash, (just an allergy it turns out, she had a streriod injection and is now much better  ) and while he was there asked him  to look at Poppy.

He said dots nothing to worry about and agreed with me that she does not look fat enough to be 1-2 months away from foaling, or even enough to be due late Aug/early Sept (she was with stallion till end of Sept).  He didn't answer as to why she had these dots, just said that if I were going to try to put her in foal this year maybe get a vet to put a hand up before she goes to stallion.   

I know vet was rather vague (he is rather in general, drove off with his boot still up!! ) but I had farrier there at same time doing my 5 week old foal so was holding her while all this was going on and as vet & farrier were having a lovely catch up I didn't get all the questions I wanted to ask asked, grr.

Anyhoo, point is, today was messing with her boobs and gave the teat a little squeeze, and out came some clear liquid  

So todays stupid question of the day is.......

Do mares who are not in foal & who have never foaled get liquid in their teats???  Could this be a phantom pregnancy thing?

Can't check by doing same to another mare as all my mares have either had foals or are foals and all my friends mares either have foals or are in foal!!!

Applogies again for the stupid questions, you would't think I had a degree in equine science would you?!!  But I always say the day you think you know it all is the day you stop knowing anything, and also you guys are way way more knowledgeable about this stuff than little old me & book learning, nothing beats actual practical experiance in these matters for sure!!


----------



## Tempi (6 May 2011)

Can you not get your vet to scan her?  Then you would know for certain


----------



## ElleSkywalker (6 May 2011)

Tempi said:



			Can you not get your vet to scan her?  Then you would know for certain 

Click to expand...

Of course, & before she goes back up to stallion she will be, she is currently sliming & still would be if in foal or not (vet agreed) as came through the winter ridiculously well! 

Basically just want to know if both things, the dots and the liquid are normal or if people have noticed on a mare who is not in foal.  

TBH the vet was not terribly interested and didn't see the need to do it then, I was hoping he would


----------



## nikkiportia (6 May 2011)

We call it 'Salt and pepper' on the teats, lol! And we often see it on in-foal mares.


----------



## Spring Feather (6 May 2011)

Elle it doesn't sound like your vet is an equine specialist repro vet?  If I was you I think I'd change vets to one more knowledgeable on equines.  

Do you know if the mare has ever had a foal before?  I know you can't really tell by photos but she doesn't look infoal to me, or at least if she is then she isn't due for a very long time.  I just wonder if she has foaled before which is why you're seeing an old empty bag there?  Or whether this is a new, growing bag?

With the dots, perhaps they are not calcium deposits due to being pregnant, maybe they are just sweat dots excreting salt which some non-pregnant mares can do if the weather is hot?  As to the fluid, was it actual fluid or was it just some residue?

For peace of mind I'd have her blood tested and then you'll know for sure whether she's pregnant or not.


----------



## ElleSkywalker (6 May 2011)

Hi spring feather, sadly my vet is a senior partner in a very well known equine repro vets & AI centre  worrying hey!!!!

She has def not had a foal before, had her from a weanling.  Also thanks for the suggestion of salt deposits, having looked closer they are coming out of pores, so the idea of salt deposits or calcium deposits does make sense and is good to know there might be another reason for them. 

Fluid was actual fluid, in fact it squirted out and quite shocked me, it was clear, but didn't seem sticky. 

She has not to my notice (been keeping a close eye  ) been in season this year, and when scanned back in spet had a CL,  am wondering if this CL is still there stopping her from coming into season & also making her have a phantom pregnancy??


----------



## Spring Feather (6 May 2011)

Oops!  Lol!

I've never come across a mare with a phantom pregnancy but although rare it seems it does happen from time to time in some mares.

So if you've had her since she was a baby then this bag is a newly developed bag and is exuding real fluid which under normal circumstances would imply that she is most likely pregnant.  Really though unless you test her then I think you're going to be in the dark for a while to come or until further developments occur, or don't as the case may be.


----------



## Pipkin (6 May 2011)

ummm Ayla`s got these and has been nowhere near a stallion


----------



## GinnieRedwings (6 May 2011)

My mare has white spots on her udders at this time of year (has at the moment) whether or not she is in foal.... BUT only since she has had a foal! (or perhaps I never noticed before, as udder obscession is a disease you tend to develop when you start breeding )

However, if you look at the evidence:

- She ran with a stallion at the end of last summer...
- She has the beginning of a bag
- You can squeeze fluid out of her udders relatively easily
- She came out of winter looking "ridiculously well"
- you have had her since she was a yearling and KNOW she was never in foal
- therefore she is a maiden AND a young horse, so there is no guarantee she would show until the last month or so anyway....

It could be a phantom pregnancy but the balance of probabilities is... she is in foal.

If it were me, I would get the vet to scan, palpate, blood test... whatever, establish the facts!

Good luck x


----------



## ElleSkywalker (6 May 2011)

Ayla84 said:



			ummm Ayla`s got these and has been nowhere near a stallion 

Click to expand...

Thanks!! Good to know if she's not in foal she's not the only one who has had these!! Phew, thought she might be a little freak 

My friend (a stud owner) has just been round to poke her, and started off same as me saying, nope doesn't look in foal, she had a squeeze, out came more clear liquid, and added that she does have some bagging up type stuff going on in front of her udder too, but she has had this since she came home from stallion.

The more we looked the more we talked ourselves into thinking there might be something there (phantom or real), most likely not due from 16th July covering, but perhaps a last min cover in Sept? Poppy is rather long backed and tubular so there is space to hide a foal in quite easily, and from certain angles there does seem to be foal type lumps!!

So you are all right, I do need to get a vet to scan, blood test, or wee foal test her, am pleased am not the only one who thinks something might be going on thanks to you guys and my friend all asuring me than am not going mad!

In my heart of hearts don't really think she is pregnant, but am concerned the CL is still hanging round hence the lack of seasons/possible phantom pregnancy which of course needs sorting out before my newly slim (we're getting there!) pony goes back for another try!


----------



## Marchell (6 May 2011)

A friend of mine bought a mare over this morning for scanning, she is a grade one connemara mare that she purchased in ireland to cover with her connie stallion . She was skeletal when she bought her at the end of the year and is only just picking up now, she is still very slimline. Vendor said she was not in foal. However she has not shown in season at all yet despite regular teasing and in fact eventually turned out with said stallion. The vet did a rectal initially to palpate her uterus and yep, she is in foal. He reckons she is around eight months gone but you would never have said so from looking at her physique.  I have seen the grey white spots often on both barren and in foal mares .


----------



## ElleSkywalker (6 May 2011)

Marchell, is your friend happy about the buy one get one free foal? Am guessing so if she has been out with the stallion again 

And to prove I am not mad here are some pics from today showing lack of in foal looking like pony!













Boobs







Side view v sunny day so she has no head







....and one of her head, as she is sad that people only look at her fatness, not admire her pretty face


----------



## Marchell (6 May 2011)

No she is very unchuffed about it. The vendor told her she was empty . She purchased her to cover this spring with her own very nice Connie. The only one the vendor had capable of covering her , though he says he didnt was a very very hairy small coloured cob colt, not a type she likes at all !


----------



## GinnieRedwings (7 May 2011)

OP, those are NOT a young, maiden, empty mare's udders... As for the belly, difficult to say either way. Just get your vet to stick his arm up her bum and you'll know for certain!


----------



## chestnutmarelover (7 May 2011)

sorry can't help with the white dot thing but reading about common for vets to miss things on scans isn't inspiring me with confidence!! My mare has her first, 20 day scan nxt week & i'm keeping EVERYTHNG crossed for her!! Please b a positive result!!


----------



## ElleSkywalker (7 May 2011)

GinnieRedwings said:



			OP, those are NOT a young, maiden, empty mare's udders... As for the belly, difficult to say either way. Just get your vet to stick his arm up her bum and you'll know for certain!
		
Click to expand...

Yep Ginnie, hand up the bum I think it has to be!! She is not super young, she is 8 but most definately a maiden.  Wish the boob obsession didn't start with in foal mares, is hard to remember what non in foal mares boobs look like 

chestnutmarelover, good luck for your scan  , most of the time the scans are read rightly, is just a handful of cases that are missed.  I would also say go with your gut, a mare that was covered the same day as my other mare was scanned at day 35 not in foal, and vet advised to PG, but her owner knew her mare and knew she was acting 'in foal' so didn't PG her.  Result, never came back into season and healthy filly foal born the week before my foal 

Marchell, miss read your post and though mare came over with the stallion, hence thinking the mare was covered by that stallion and that owner would be pleased  .  Hopefully the foal will be someones cup of tea & she can find it a nice home


----------



## ElleSkywalker (13 May 2011)

**UPDATE** 

Poppy had a hand up the bum today and...no little foal, also she has ws scanned too and good news, she IS cycling, was getting v worried that the CL that was there in Sept was still hanging round and messing things up 

She will be packing up her tooth brush in a couple of weeks to go back up to the stallion, hopefully this year she will get the idea and there will be no more butt-scooting behaviour!! 

Finger crossed for Poppy to have a proper foal in her tum this time next year, no more of these little phantom fellas


----------



## Revena (13 May 2011)

That's a relief for you! Good luck, I hope she takes! Who is she going to?


----------



## ElleSkywalker (13 May 2011)

Thanks   yes I feel loads better now, deep down I knew she wasn't in foal, so was imagining all kinds of problems that could be stopping her cycling!!

She's going to Rainbow Warrior, he's who my foal this year is by too, hopefully this one will be coloured, but will be a lovely small hunter type what ever colour it pops out  

As long as she actually lets the boy do his job this time......


----------



## Spring Feather (14 May 2011)

Did you use a different vet for the second hand up the bum?   Glad you got her scanned as now you know for sure she isn't pregnant.


----------



## ElleSkywalker (14 May 2011)

Same practice different vet, didn't want the same one as last time, but at least this vet was interested in seeing what was going on with the poor confused pony!

My fave vet (not the one who did either visit) has left the practice and am trying to find a new fave vet amoungst the ones left! Makes a real difference having a vet you trust doesn't it?


----------

