# which breed? Can't make up my mind!



## MotherOfChickens (8 May 2016)

Ok, I am obsessing about this a bit-its what I do. We recently lost our Irish setter. We have a little staffy x beagle rescue. I have come to the conclusion that I no longer find keeping dogs singly acceptable (not judging anyone for doing it, if I could give a single dog all my attention it might be different). I would like a pup, not a rescue, and ideally this would be August onwards (we're having some building work done and there are other reasons). 

I know what I don't want-full bred staffy or other bull breed, BCs, beardies, sighthounds, pointers, huskies, spaniels, labradors, GSD, and have ruled out terriers-as much as I love some of them. There are various reasons for each breed, some I couldn't offer a suitable home to, some because of where I am and some I have had before etc. I keep poultry and ducks, cats and horses-I am surrounded by sheep and also cattle in the summer (i.e. there is a stock fence between my property and the sheep, I also have a walled, enclosed back garden). 

I am considering a working bred setter (either Irish or IRAW) and getting professional training (i.e. one used to setters). The other breeds under consideration are beagles, standard poodles and possibly smooth collies. Out of the three, I suspect smooth collies are the 'easiest'.

I am also not adverse to a decent cross breed-and I don't mean a hybrid for £850 but a proper mongrel. Saw some advertised yesterday staffy x rottie x beagle x collie and they looked fab.

Every time I see a picture of a setter I think my mind is made up but I know how high maintenance they can be on every level. I've read a lot about beagles and behaviour problems but many of these owners seem completely clueless and bought one as a first dog.However, both of these make my heart sing in a way the smooth collies and cross breed pups don't. 

Anyone got any great ideas?


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## splashgirl45 (8 May 2016)

you seem to have ruled out most breeds, I can only think of the toy breeds like Pomeranian, Chihuahua etc, or the other end of the scale, rottie or Doberman..  good luck it sounds like you will have a long search!!!!!
 just thought how about a munsterlander?


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## druid (8 May 2016)

Working setters are wonderful dogs but if you think a Pointer is unsuitable then I'd imagine a setter would be too? If you're going to work with a suitable trainer then either breed would be fine. I like standard poodles very much, intelligent trainable dogs - I know one that works as a gundog and is a lovely creature. Smooth collies are a soft spot for me but like any herding breed need a "job" to some extent.


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## MotherOfChickens (8 May 2016)

splashgirl45 said:



			you seem to have ruled out most breeds, I can only think of the toy breeds like Pomeranian, Chihuahua etc, or the other end of the scale, rottie or Doberman..  good luck it sounds like you will have a long search!!!!!
 just thought how about a munsterlander?
		
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yikes, no toy breeds-I think beagles are on the wee side. I do love rotties fwiw but OH wouldn't go for one. I will google munsterlanders  

There are other breeds such as spinones, otter hounds ( I like a shaggy dog), flat coats, Standard Schnauzers that I have in the back of my head that I've not looked at seriously but have known examples of. 

Quite by luck today we met a couple of setters, a small family of 4 beagles and a rather splendid bearded collie (I've had one, always glad to admire them from afar!). So I had a lovely chat with the beagle people and I've just had a working setter breeder contact me about a visit.


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## MotherOfChickens (8 May 2016)

druid said:



			Working setters are wonderful dogs but if you think a Pointer is unsuitable then I'd imagine a setter would be too? If you're going to work with a suitable trainer then either breed would be fine. I like standard poodles very much, intelligent trainable dogs - I know one that works as a gundog and is a lovely creature. Smooth collies are a soft spot for me but like any herding breed need a "job" to some extent.
		
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I have a confession about pointers-they just don't do it for me (apologies). There are lots around here and I probably have the same unfounded prejudice against them that people do about setters when they've not known one well. When the last dog was a youngster, we didn't live in sheep country and by the time we did, he was too old to take any notice (i.e. 9!). But I do remember what he was like with deer and birds so not under any illusions.

I do love the poodles, had a toy growing up and have known several standards-they are fab dogs.


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## Dry Rot (8 May 2016)

If you want a pet DO NOT get a pointer or a setter from working lines! That is based on several decades of breeding, owning, working, and training them!

Why is it people wanting a pet go for active working breeds that have been bred for centuries to be hyperactive with a passion for hunting in spite of all the advice out there not to do it? OK, some will be 'lucky', but if those hunting instincts are once awakened they will usually be channelled into some sort of activity that you might find inconvenient.


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## MotherOfChickens (8 May 2016)

Dry Rot said:



			If you want a pet DO NOT get a pointer or a setter from working lines! That is based on several decades of breeding, owning, working, and training them!

Why is it people wanting a pet go for active working breeds that have been bred for centuries to be hyperactive with a passion for hunting in spite of all the advice out there not to do it? OK, some will be 'lucky', but if those hunting instincts are once awakened they will usually be channelled into some sort of activity that you might find inconvenient.
		
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thanks for your input-the reason for going (potentially) with a working bred setter is to avoid the myriad of health problems in the show bred setters which I've kept for a couple of decades. 

_If_ I go down that route, it will be after much research and only if I feel I can meet the commitment to training and working the dog as it should be. I have been chatting to several working breeders over several months and I've still not decided or convinced so not jumping into anything. I was to go to watch some field trials in March but a bout of the flu put paid to that-will try and make some later on.

 I've even found someone who works setters under falcons (I can hear you rolling your eyes DR!  ) and I still wasn't daft enough to jump right in. I am missing my old dog, though trying to not let it cloud my judgement.


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## druid (8 May 2016)

Ah, that's different - if you don't like pointers vs them not being suitable.



MotherOfChickens said:



			I've even found someone who works setters under falcons
		
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Usually the worst trained setters and pointers you'll find (sweeping generalization).


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## PingPongPony (8 May 2016)

Poodle, I have 2 toys atm and my next will be a standard, only reason for having toys is the issue of not enough space for a bigger dog atm. Love the breed, intelligent, trainable, lots of energy, I do agility and canicross with my younger one, thinking of doing fly ball too. My older one is 12 now but I used to do agility with her  Both dogs are brilliant around horses, and other animals, children, guests etc, just absolutely fab dogs to be around. And the big bonus of no hair anywhere! My fave breed by far  
My parents have a Russian Black Terrier, yes I know you said no terriers but google this one, it's not your ''typical'' terrier breed  He's a lovely chilled out goofy dog, also very intelligent and very happy. Doesn't particularly enjoy running, he's much more of the rough and tumble with another dog, tug of war, that type of dog rather than the chase a ball/stick/run around like crazy type  lovely dog thou, doesn't shed very much, and doesn't bark very much at all, only ever heard him bark twice in the last 2 years and that was mid play with another dog x


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## Cinnamontoast (8 May 2016)

Poodle. There's the most amazing, elegant, beautiful standard I see sometimes. I could really fancy one. 

Given how similar springers look to mumsterlanders, are the temperaments generally similar? My youngsters are nearly as big as mumsterlanders, oversized badly bred things! 

How about a Gordon setter if you can find a good breeder who has health tested? I confess I love the look of English setters, so I'd be keen on that too.


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## Chiffy (8 May 2016)

I am a flatcoat person so obviously think the breed is wonderful. Some people seem to think they are a bit too lively but all mine, over 40years , have been easy to train, biddable, keen to work and be with you. Love people, dogs and children and steady with all livestock.
I have always kept a lurcher too, but that's another story. If I tried another breed I fancy Smooth Collies or a Munsterlander. I worked one of my flatcoats in a gun dog class with one and it was lovely.
Cinnamontoast, it was nothing like a springer, taller, slimmer built, and not nearly as busy!!


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## MotherOfChickens (8 May 2016)

cinnamontoast said:



			he temperaments generally similar? My youngsters are nearly as big as mumsterlanders, oversized badly bred things! 

How about a Gordon setter if you can find a good breeder who has health tested? I confess I love the look of English setters, so I'd be keen on that too.
		
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Gordons have a rep for being even harder to train than the other types  lovely looking dogs though. The only English setters I know have wrse health issues than the Irish I've had-again, beautiful dogs. My Irishes were tested and/or genetically free of all the usual setter conditions. I'm pretty convinced that some of the problems I've experienced have been brought about by early castration as well though.


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## millikins (8 May 2016)

I have a poodle and I love him dearly but he is high maintenance. Super intelligent but prefers to use his brains for himself. He is also snooty, is not at all interested in other dogs except other poodles/crosses, which I am told is typical, if I had another I would get a bitch. Rotties make wonderful crossbreeds in my experience.


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## MotherOfChickens (8 May 2016)

druid said:



			Ah, that's different - if you don't like pointers vs them not being suitable.



Usually the worst trained setters and pointers you'll find (sweeping generalization).
		
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kill joy!


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## MotherOfChickens (8 May 2016)

Chiffy said:



			I am a flatcoat person so obviously think the breed is wonderful. Some people seem to think they are a bit too lively but all mine, over 40years , have been easy to train, biddable, keen to work and be with you. Love people, dogs and children and steady with all livestock.
		
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I've not known any personally this decade but did know three over the years plus those that used to come in the practice. Of the three I knew, not one made it to 8 yo-whats the health status like these days?


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## gallopingby (8 May 2016)

I've recently acquired a working type English Setter, no history on her but thought to be about 18 months. So far she's proving very easy - certainly much easier than the Spinones I've had! Very settled in the house but fast outside. Maybe think about one of the rare breed spaniels - there are several about and all can be trained to work if that's what you want to do. they are of course smaller than ESS.


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## Luci07 (8 May 2016)

Dalmatian? Friends have some 2 dogs are wildly different, but the dog is very active. Love their characters ( though we had some unpleasant electric fencing accidents with no 1 dally....she spent a lot of time with my Staffords, copied their behaviour and didn't realise she was getting bigger than them...)


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## ihatework (8 May 2016)

What is it you want from a dog?!

A breed a few friends of mine have are Australian Shepherds and they are wonderful tempered and versatile mid sized dogs. I'd have one in a flash if they didn't have quite so much hair!!

I'm hopefully just about to rehome a Manchester terrier bitch


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## MotherOfChickens (8 May 2016)

oh, love the Manchester terriers 

Dalmations have crossed my mind, will think on them.


I hadn't considered Aussie shepherds tbh-hairy though and how collie like are they? I've had a BC and a beardie, I never want another one. I know I said Smooths but that would be decided after I'd met some first-the breeders I've contacted tell me they are nowhere near as intense as BCs.

what do I want? I think that can be met by many dogs tbh. The rescue we have is pretty much perfect apart from her slight tendency to go overboard with other dogs at times and her overwhelming urge to eat poo (well, anything really its just there's a lot of poo around here). It seems to be very difficult to find a good, old fashioned mutt these days (as she is) and I've no interest in jugs, puggles or the Boebel x mastiffs or huskitas being sold in Glasgow :O


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## ihatework (8 May 2016)

The Aussie shepherds I know have little in common with boarder collies,
Less neurotic/OCD. Slightly lazier and more level headed. I can't fault the ones I know, good all round active pets. But yes, way too much hair for my liking.


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## Chiffy (9 May 2016)

MoC, that is a terrible statistic you have quoted for flatcoats. I lost my first flatcoat (many years ago) to bone cancer at the age of 9. All my others have lived to low teens and died of old age.
The Flatcoated Retriever Society have done an enormous amount to improve health. All those years ago I was asked to send off my dogs X-rays for their research programme.


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## MotherOfChickens (9 May 2016)

well tbf, it was personal experience not a statistic and I thought I was quite clear on that-I am glad so much has been done as they are lovely dogs.


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## Chiffy (9 May 2016)

Sorry MoC, bad choice of words by me. Personally I wish all dogs lived much longer, they just grow up from silly puppyhood and you have a few years of the perfect companion and then they start to get old. So wish we had them twice as long. Mind you, flatcoats are known as the Peter Pans of the dog world, full of fun and energy to the end. It's just sad parting with them.


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## MotherOfChickens (9 May 2016)

Chiffy said:



			. Mind you, flatcoats are known as the Peter Pans of the dog world, full of fun and energy to the end. It's just sad parting with them.
		
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setters are the same-even a couple of weeks before we lost him, mine was still ridiculously excited by snow


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## Possum (9 May 2016)

Get a Newf! We adore ours, they have a long life expectancy for a giant breed and the sayings about their temperament are right on the money.  Ours is very active outdoors and loves a long walk but just flops in the house.  He's intelligent and has been very trainable despite having come to us at 2 as a bit of a thug. We couldn't ask for a better family dog, he's 100% with our tiny terrier and absolutely worships her, and I can trust him with all our small furries.


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## tabithakat64 (9 May 2016)

Standard poodle, Australian Shepherd or as you've said an Irish setter.  If you'd be open to a rescue then take a look at Pod's there are several rescues such as http://www.ibizanhoundrescue.com/ and they are lovely dogs.


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## MotherOfChickens (9 May 2016)

tabithakat64 said:



			Standard poodle, Australian Shepherd or as you've said an Irish setter.  If you'd be open to a rescue then take a look at Pod's there are several rescues such as http://www.ibizanhoundrescue.com/ and they are lovely dogs.
		
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From my experience from earlier this year, poodle and setter rescue won't consider me because I work full time. It does also seem, having followed them for a while, that the setters going through rescue have problems. 

Ibizan hounds are stunning, but just not an option due to our location which is why I ruled out sighthounds-plus I have cats.


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## ester (9 May 2016)

Possum said:



			Get a Newf! We adore ours, they have a long life expectancy for a giant breed and the sayings about their temperament are right on the money.  Ours is very active outdoors and loves a long walk but just flops in the house.  He's intelligent and has been very trainable despite having come to us at 2 as a bit of a thug. We couldn't ask for a better family dog, he's 100% with our tiny terrier and absolutely worships her, and I can trust him with all our small furries.
		
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If she doesn't want the hair of an australian sheepdog I can't see a newfie being on the cards!


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## Possum (9 May 2016)

ester said:



			If she doesn't want the hair of an australian sheepdog I can't see a newfie being on the cards!
		
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To be honest, the hair's not terrible other than the couple of months he's blowing his coat. My parents' springer was far worse! The slobber on the other hand...


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## ester (9 May 2016)

Lol I was including surface area in my calculations


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## {97702} (9 May 2016)

MotherOfChickens said:



			From my experience from earlier this year, poodle and setter rescue won't consider me because I work full time. It does also seem, having followed them for a while, that the setters going through rescue have problems. 

Ibizan hounds are stunning, but just not an option due to our location which is why I ruled out sighthounds-plus I have cats.
		
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That is a bit of a generalisation - I know of loads of retired racing greyhounds which are cat friendly   I was impressed by your knowledge of setters who worked with falcons, would absolutely LOVE to see that (somewhat envious!!!!)


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## blackcob (9 May 2016)

There's a chap local to me who works large munsterlanders with a bird of prey, just to throw another breed into the mix!


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## Possum (9 May 2016)

ester said:



			Lol I was including surface area in my calculations 

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True, the dog:carpet ratio leaves something to be desired!


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## {97702} (9 May 2016)

blackcob said:



			There's a chap local to me who works large munsterlanders with a bird of prey, just to throw another breed into the mix!
		
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I like them as a breed too - what sort of bird of prey though BC?


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## blackcob (9 May 2016)

Erm... a big brown one?


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## {97702} (9 May 2016)

blackcob said:



			Erm... a big brown one?  

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Ah that narrows it down hugely....


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## MotherOfChickens (10 May 2016)

No newfies either- or other giant breeds or slobber hounds.


I am not interested in fly ball or agility. I do love to hill walk though and the dog gets 2 plus hours of walking spread over three walks weekdays and the same, if not a bit more at weekends. Plus another dog to play with.


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## ihatework (10 May 2016)

A toller?


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## MotherOfChickens (10 May 2016)

ihatework said:



			A toller?
		
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now they do look interesting! can't find assured breeders north of Newark though.


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## Mightymax (10 May 2016)

Have you considered a Hungarian Vizsla? Short coated, (easy to keep clean - a quick rub down with a towel, job done - and less hair around the house!) and a loyal, affectionate, trainable dog.


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## MotherOfChickens (10 May 2016)

anyone have any experience with Schnauzers?


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## MotherOfChickens (10 May 2016)

Mightymax said:



			Have you considered a Hungarian Vizsla? Short coated, (easy to keep clean - a quick rub down with a towel, job done - and less hair around the house!) and a loyal, affectionate, trainable dog.
		
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I hadn't actually, not sure I've ever met one but they look great and not too big (I was under the impression they were Weimaraner size). They sound similar in temp to setters actually-I wonder if their recall is easier to establish given they are also a working breed?


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## ester (10 May 2016)

I have met a couple of tollers, one was quite nervy but overall I thought lovely quite small dogs. 
I'd quite like a schnauzer, though mostly know minis, big dog in a small body but not a terrier .

Vislak is your girl for viszlas, she works hers,  they can be a bit clingy by all counts, def smaller than a weimaraner. I'll see if I can throw her in your direction


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## ester (10 May 2016)

Vizslak said:



			I'm here *waves* you sound like you could offer a great life for a vizz. Main points about vs to consider are, as you have pointed out they are high energy, they are also very clingy dogs, nicknamed Velcro dogs for a reason, they like to be by your side at all times. Buying from a good reputable breeder that health tests is also very important, take recommendations, I'm happy to steer you in the right direction especially if you have any litters in mind. Feel free to pm me. You are likely to find yourself on a wait list for a decent pup. Are you looking to work the dog in the future or just like gundogs generally? There are extra considerations about the breed if looking to work them. PM (polymyositis) is a health condition that any new vizz owner should look into before looking for a pup. They are a wonderful breed, unlike any other I have owned or known before, my other dogs are dogs and vizslas are vizslas, not dogs! They are highly intelligent, part of owning a vizsla is the uneasy feeling that you may be being outwitted on a regular basis! They are clever but generally biddable, training methods are slightly altered for a vizz, they will damn your preconconceptions of how you think you train a dog. They are generally very sensitive, take things to heart and have memories like elephants as well which can work both for and against you!
		
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from an earlier post


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## MotherOfChickens (10 May 2016)

thanks ester, certainly worth looking into! setters (ime) can be a little clingy, it was probably my least favourite thing about him mostly because I would end up covered in hair and because he had very pointy elbows  

so on the list of meetings so far booked up are: IRAW setters, beagles, schnauzers (can't find any standards nearby but have found giants and miniatures). 

I also rang up on an impulse on a rescue beagle x springer but they felt as though coming to work in the van etc wouldn't suit him-seems to have not been socialised very well.


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## ester (10 May 2016)

'l in answer to her specific question on v vs setter, having trained both, yes recall in a vizz is about 3000 times easier to train than a setters!'

oh and wirehaireds are larger


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## MotherOfChickens (10 May 2016)

ester said:



			'l in answer to her specific question on v vs setter, having trained both, yes recall in a vizz is about 3000 times easier to train than a setters!'
		
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ha ha! ok, one to look at seriously then, thank you.


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## gunnergundog (10 May 2016)

deleted


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## MotherOfChickens (10 May 2016)

gunnergundog said:



			deleted
		
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ahh, go on-say what you are thinking!


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## MotherOfChickens (10 May 2016)

oh, thanks for the shirty, patronising pm whoever you are. Why I would get criticised for thoroughly researching the breeds I am interested in, before bringing them home to the sort of environment most dogs would love is quite beyond me. 

I am grateful for the ideas I've had from the thread but will not be taking anything on without meeting various breeders of them and trying to meet examples in homes (FB is great for this!). I'm even meeting and lining up potential trainers experienced in the breeds that I have on the list. I may not have worked dogs before but have raised various well adjusted, happy family dogs previously.

Christ, its not like I've never had setters and I am quite aware working strains will be different, hence the research into breeders and trainers. I have a very short list of breeds, I think I know what I will end up with but with only getting a pup every twelve years or so, I want to satisfy my curiosity of other breeds thoroughly and make sure the home I can offer is right for the dog.


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## ester (10 May 2016)

:eek3: 

how dare you do research and not know every dog breed in and out anyway. 

MoC iirc schnauzers have very few health issues too.


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## MotherOfChickens (10 May 2016)

ester said:



			oh and wirehaireds are larger
		
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and very handsome!


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## MotherOfChickens (10 May 2016)

ester said:



			:eek3: 

how dare you do research and not know every dog breed in and out anyway. 

MoC iirc schnauzers have very few health issues too.
		
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yes, I read that. I was wondering about grooming though-would there be lots of groomers bills?


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## ihatework (10 May 2016)

MotherOfChickens said:



			now they do look interesting! can't find assured breeders north of Newark though.
		
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They were on my shortlist having met a couple of lovely ones


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## gunnergundog (10 May 2016)

MotherOfChickens said:



			ahh, go on-say what you are thinking!
		
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Nothing interesting - just got my pedantic hat on today for some reason, so was replying to Ester's comment that wirehaired Viz's are bigger.

If you read the KC breed standard the wires are actually smaller by definition.  Wirehaired males should be 58-62 cm and bitches 54-58 cm; shorthaired males should be 57-64cm and bitches 53-60 cm.  HOWEVER, the wirehaired breed club also include a note that: Variance of less than 3 cms is permitted as long as the dog remains in proportion. 

So, technically Ester is correct, a wire can be LESS than one centimetre bigger than a shorthaired!    So, I wouldn't let size difference rule one out if that is what you want.  Having said all that, there are a lot of badly bred wires around that look like giraffes with the coat of a yak!

Told you I was being pedantic - bet you wish you'd never asked now!


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## ihatework (10 May 2016)

MotherOfChickens said:



			oh, thanks for the shirty, patronising pm whoever you are. Why I would get criticised for thoroughly researching the breeds I am interested in, before bringing them home to the sort of environment most dogs would love is quite beyond me. 

I am grateful for the ideas I've had from the thread but will not be taking anything on without meeting various breeders of them and trying to meet examples in homes (FB is great for this!). I'm even meeting and lining up potential trainers experienced in the breeds that I have on the list. I may not have worked dogs before but have raised various well adjusted, happy family dogs previously.

Christ, its not like I've never had setters and I am quite aware working strains will be different, hence the research into breeders and trainers. I have a very short list of breeds, I think I know what I will end up with but with only getting a pup every twelve years or so, I want to satisfy my curiosity of other breeds thoroughly and make sure the home I can offer is right for the dog.
		
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OMG - you are such a bad bad heinous person.
I mean you should just run out and get the first cute fluffy puppy you see without doing any research.
Actually thinking about it Id head for a puppy farm if I were you, I mean supporting a British business has to be a good thing, right?!


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## MotherOfChickens (10 May 2016)

ihatework said:



			OMG - you are such a bad bad heinous person.
I mean you should just run out and get the first cute fluffy puppy you see without doing any research.
		
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well, as long as its not a working breed it would seem as though that would be acceptable  although there are Boerbels available locally too, 'ready to go'...


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## MotherOfChickens (10 May 2016)

gunnergundog said:



			Told you I was being pedantic - bet you wish you'd never asked now!  

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I think ester likes pedantic! (x ester!). Thats good to hear actually because I do love the look of the wirehaireds-they also don't have rarity value up here so hopefully easy to meet some. I think OH will like them too and although he doesn't get veto (he still can't believe I snuck in a staffy, albeit a cross) I do have to take him into consideration as well.


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## ester (10 May 2016)

It wasn't my comment that was a very short summary of what Viszlak messaged me , but yes I am a huge pedant so . I guess also you look at the parents  I love the idea of giraffeXYak wires. 

the full sentence was 
'And yes they are (or should be, there are some very oversized  ones about) much smaller than a Weim. Wires are Weim sized. They aren't an easy dog but nor is a setter if she's considering one!


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## MotherOfChickens (10 May 2016)

ester said:



			the full sentence was 
'And yes they are (or should be, there are some very oversized  ones about) much smaller than a Weim. Wires are Weim sized. They aren't an easy dog but nor is a setter if she's considering one!
		
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I don't want an easy one, nor do I want a really hard one  I'm a bit like that with horses as well.


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## Lucyad (10 May 2016)

We have a blue heeler (Australian Cattle Dog) that we chose after a fair bit of research as a highly trainable dog, good recall, suitable for training to hack out with horses (so fit for a reasonable pace / distance), good with other animals (i.e. not liable to chase / eat them), easy coat, medium size.  Our pup is 5 months old now, and is coming on great (hopefully once we crack the toilet training!).  She is a bit different from our old GSD but I think we made a good choice.


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## MotherOfChickens (10 May 2016)

thats an interesting choice Lucyad! they are braw looking dogs-woud have thought they might have a high chase drive though?! 

I have some experience with kelpies-ex-OHs wanted to kill me and local farmer has them for working sheep.neat little things, hard as nails.


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## ester (10 May 2016)

Murphysminder always says how fab her lancashire heeler is.


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## Bellasophia (10 May 2016)

ester said:



			:eek3: 



MoC iirc schnauzers have very few health issues too.
		
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I think a ( medium)schnauzer would be perfect for your set up...I've got a mini,who lives in full country environment ..gets a strip every week and is then wash and wear..
The medium size is perfect for you..great guards,very loyal and trainable...the Giants are at risk for hips and thyroid...

The st poodle? I'm on my third...huge coat care required,not wash and wear..lf  I don't blow dry after every wet outing you are in matting extreme...mine wears a coat,but legs ,head tail need at least twenty mins drying time after every wet walk.


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## Lucyad (10 May 2016)

I worried about them chasing next door's cattle, and our horses, but was assured that you could train it out of them if they did start rounding things up - so far ours hasn't even tried to chase the cat!  She does trot along beside the horses nicely so far (obviously a lot of training to be done before we set off on the roads - took about a year or more for the GSD...). Good natural recall - 'blue glue' apparently a saying. I ruled out scent hounds / sight hounds / sledge dogs / terriers when we were looking, and anything with reputation for being bonkers - didn't leave a lot!


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## MotherOfChickens (10 May 2016)

ester said:



			Murphysminder always says how fab her lancashire heeler is.
		
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I remember and I actually looked up and met some local ones after that (we have a local FB socialisation walk group). Great wee dogs, not for me though.


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## MotherOfChickens (10 May 2016)

Bellasophia said:



			I think a ( medium)schnauzer would be perfect for your set up...I've got a mini,who lives in full country environment ..gets a strip every week and is then wash and wear..
The medium size is perfect for you..great guards,very loyal and trainable...the Giants are at risk for hips and thyroid...

The st poodle? I'm on my third...huge coat care required,not wash and wear..lf  I don't blow dry after every wet outing you are in matting extreme...mine wears a coat,but legs ,head tail need at least twenty mins drying time after every wet walk.
		
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I am definitely going to look up the schnauzer, thanks for your info. tbh that is what puts me off the poodles and indeed the setters again, especially if you neuter one.


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## MotherOfChickens (10 May 2016)

Lucyad said:



			I worried about them chasing next door's cattle, and our horses, but was assured that you could train it out of them if they did start rounding things up - so far ours hasn't even tried to chase the cat!  She does trot along beside the horses nicely so far (obviously a lot of training to be done before we set off on the roads - took about a year or more for the GSD...). Good natural recall - 'blue glue' apparently a saying. I ruled out scent hounds / sight hounds / sledge dogs / terriers when we were looking, and anything with reputation for being bonkers - didn't leave a lot!
		
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ha, I am surrounded by cattle too-well I am in the summer and the cows certainly give any dogs the eye when they have calfs and you're out and about with them or they are out in the garden.


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## MotherOfChickens (10 May 2016)

just by chance-seems as though the Scottish KC have their championship show on the 21st, so should be able to see examples of nearly everything I want to! Although its hard to tell because its the worst website I've seen in ages. They have Australian shepherds and cattle dogs so will be sure to take a look! I am not so interested in watching dogs in the ring but have never been to this sort of dog show before, is it possible to wander about?

Plus have a bouncy walk with 3 IRAW setters this sunday and some vizlas to meet next week. Have also found a WH vizla breeder who also keeps Irish setters so will be good to get a comparison from them. (I am consoling myself for having raging tonsillitis in the best weather Scotland is likely to see this year).

So shortlist atm in no particular order:

Setter

WH Vizla

Standard Schnauzer

Beagle

Smooth collie

Standard Poodle


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## blackcob (10 May 2016)

Best to look at the schedule rather than the website - http://www.highampress.co.uk/skc-may.pdf 

Lévrier I will ask what the big brown bird is next time.


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## MotherOfChickens (10 May 2016)

ah, thanks-couldnt get the link to work off the website.


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## Meowy Catkin (10 May 2016)

One of our neighbours has Vizslas and they are the nicest dogs that I have ever met.


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## RunToEarth (10 May 2016)

MotherOfChickens said:



			now they do look interesting! can't find assured breeders north of Newark though.
		
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They are a lovely dog, a friend breeds at Newark OT and has had some beautiful litters. Have you tried Edinbarnet Nova Scotia, Ayrshire? I always wanted a toller, OH doesn't like their little brown noses and certain similarities to the collie. I have a golden retriever, she is the most biddable and loyal dog I've ever known - I was absolutely dead set against them prior to OH pleading with me, I doubt I would ever go back to ESS having had a retriever, although they may be too similar to labs for your liking.


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## MotherOfChickens (10 May 2016)

RunToEarth said:



			They are a lovely dog, a friend breeds at Newark OT and has had some beautiful litters. Have you tried Edinbarnet Nova Scotia, Ayrshire? I always wanted a toller, OH doesn't like their little brown noses and certain similarities to the collie. I have a golden retriever, she is the most biddable and loyal dog I've ever known - I was absolutely dead set against them prior to OH pleading with me, I doubt I would ever go back to ESS having had a retriever, although they may be too similar to labs for your liking.
		
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ahh, thanks for finding that for me! not horrendously far from me 

I like the goldens and have them in the back of my head. There is a lovely old goldie at work-he's a huge boy though! they are on the heavy side of the sort of dog I tend to like for myself.


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## Clodagh (10 May 2016)

I know they aren't on your final list but I have to disagree with ther person who recommended a blue heeler, I had them in Oz and you saw a lot about. Reknowned biters, hard dogs and difficult to train. Lovely though, gorgeous colour - who doesn't like roan - and great fun. Never tired.


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## Lucyad (10 May 2016)

Clodagh said:



			I know they aren't on your final list but I have to disagree with ther person who recommended a blue heeler, I had them in Oz and you saw a lot about. Reknowned biters, hard dogs and difficult to train. Lovely though, gorgeous colour - who doesn't like roan - and great fun. Never tired.
		
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Eeek, sorry to sidetrack OP, but interesting to get feedback from someone who knows more of the breed...I have to say the parents and brother of our pup were all very nice natured, and have a similar environment to ours (kids and animals), and the few others we have met or heard about in Scotland seem the same - but your feedback seems to be similar to another Ausie contact's (feedback we got after getting our pup, I might add!).  Oh well, hopefully she will grow up to have as nice a nature has her close relatives. Certainly she is super easy to train so far (apart from the toileting as she still has the odd accident at night, but probably because we don't crate - when confined more she is fine).


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## MotherOfChickens (10 May 2016)

I think with most breeds, socialisation and training is key. I only know of the heelers through Aussie friends so I know their reputation. The kelpies I knew were pretty hardcore. saying that, they were all working dogs, not socialised with anyone much outside of family and lived under utes year round. The kelpies I know here work but are also kept in the house and are really friendly to visitors/strangers off/on the quad. farmer says they must work daily though, or they get self destructive.


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## {97702} (10 May 2016)

blackcob said:



			Best to look at the schedule rather than the website - http://www.highampress.co.uk/skc-may.pdf 

Lévrier I will ask what the big brown bird is next time. 

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Thank you BC


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## ester (10 May 2016)

I wonder if the heelers over here are more 'show-lines' so a bit softer that those in Aus where they would be a bit more widespread. 
And kelpies, yes well, collie on speed?


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## MotherOfChickens (10 May 2016)

ester said:



			And kelpies, yes well, collie on speed? 

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collies on Icelandic gin I reckon (never again!)


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## druid (10 May 2016)

Your list seems very coherent except the random beagle in the middle! 

If you're willing to work the dog you buy and are looking for a competent trainer i really fail to see why anyone should be bashing you by PM!


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## gunnergundog (10 May 2016)

Bavarian mountain hound?  There's a training centre if you are interested in working a dog in Kershope Forest - not sure how far that is from you.

http://www.bavarianmountainhoundsociety.org.uk/

Was also going to suggest a bracco, but guess that they will be too heavy for your taste based on a comment above.


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## MotherOfChickens (10 May 2016)

ha, yes the beagle seems odd. I have met some recently and I'd say they are probably on the low end of the list. I am really looking forward to meeting the new breeds  and this thread has been great for suggestions.

I do have reasons for some of the dogs on the 'never' list. I don't wish to post them as I don't want other people put off the breeds, after all its just my personal experience. Some of my 'don't wants' are on aesthetic grounds and yes, I realise that's shallow. I will not rule out a right rescue dog and will continue to check the sites.


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## MotherOfChickens (10 May 2016)

gunnergundog said:



			Bavarian mountain hound?  There's a training centre if you are interested in working a dog in Kershope Forest - not sure how far that is from you.

http://www.bavarianmountainhoundsociety.org.uk/

Was also going to suggest a bracco, but guess that they will be too heavy for your taste based on a comment above.
		
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Those Bavarian hounds are stunning! Will have read up tomorrow.about them.


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## Thistle (10 May 2016)

MotherOfChickens said:



			ahh, thanks for finding that for me! not horrendously far from me 

I like the goldens and have them in the back of my head. There is a lovely old goldie at work-he's a huge boy though! they are on the heavy side of the sort of dog I tend to like for myself.
		
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Working bred Goldie are much smaller and sleeker, less hair too.


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## spacefaer (10 May 2016)

Vizslas are one person dogs.

I had a vizsla when I was in my late teens and left her at home when I went away to college. In her mind, she was "my" dog (or I was her human) and every time I went back to college, she would stop eating for 3 days.  My mother walked her, fed her, cuddled her - did everything to look after her as though she was hers..... but she was mine.

They are velcro dogs - they are also great doctor dogs - they like nothing better than to make you feel better when you are stuck in bed with flu, by sitting on your chest and gazing earnestly into your eyes.

With reference to an earlier comment on flatcoats, my OH has had more dogs over the years than I've had the proverbial hot dinners - from working pointers, setters, and cockers (which he worked and trialled).  He used to have flatcoats - he adores them but won't have another one.  He said the last one he had broke his heart - she died of cancer aged about 4. There was a dreadful incidence of cancers in the breed at the time.


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## chestnut cob (11 May 2016)

Just to throw in a completely random one (and I haven't read the full thread)... both of our Dalmatians were fantastic dogs.  Very trainable, great around horses, I used to take them on the gallops riding when I had M.


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## MotherOfChickens (11 May 2016)

Thistle said:



			Working bred Goldie are much smaller and sleeker, less hair too.
		
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will I get in trouble for that one  ? I have seen one or two I think, and they would be the sort of build (and hair quantity) I can cope with. Will need to do some searching, its not always easy to find what I want up here.


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## MotherOfChickens (11 May 2016)

chestnut cob said:



			Just to throw in a completely random one (and I haven't read the full thread)... both of our Dalmatians were fantastic dogs.  Very trainable, great around horses, I used to take them on the gallops riding when I had M.
		
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yours were beautiful, they are beautiful but I guess I've been put off by the rep of needing endless galloping and I have no idea what their recall/prey drive is like?


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## Luci07 (11 May 2016)

MotherOfChickens said:



			yours were beautiful, they are beautiful but I guess I've been put off by the rep of needing endless galloping and I have no idea what their recall/prey drive is like?
		
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They aren't as active as say a working cocker and my friends haven't had much issue with teaching recall. They seem to work very happily with the same amount of exercise as my Staffords. All the ones I know are very very good tempered dogs, does seems to be a big difference in natural intelligence though! . Like every breed it does come down to the training although from my limited exposure, the bitches have been noticeably easier than the boys. For about 6 months, my friend and her dally bitch lived with me and my 4 Staffords and we had no problems, though my house did seem to shrink with the addition of a further (and bigger!) dog. There is a dally rescue too. Is there any sort of "discover dogs" event near you? So you can meet the dogs and talk to the owners. Problem with a show as such is that people will be focusing on their competition and it will take a while to try to get around to see your breeds of interest.


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## Snuffles (11 May 2016)

Anyone suggested a Weimaraner ?


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## MotherOfChickens (11 May 2016)

Luci07 said:



			They aren't as active as say a working cocker and my friends haven't had much issue with teaching recall. They seem to work very happily with the same amount of exercise as my Staffords. All the ones I know are very very good tempered dogs, does seems to be a big difference in natural intelligence though! . Like every breed it does come down to the training although from my limited exposure, the bitches have been noticeably easier than the boys. For about 6 months, my friend and her dally bitch lived with me and my 4 Staffords and we had no problems, though my house did seem to shrink with the addition of a further (and bigger!) dog. There is a dally rescue too. Is there any sort of "discover dogs" event near you? So you can meet the dogs and talk to the owners. Problem with a show as such is that people will be focusing on their competition and it will take a while to try to get around to see your breeds of interest.
		
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interesting, thanks. Not sure about the discover dogs thing, I doubt it tbh but there are lots of Ag shows that will have dog events.


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## MotherOfChickens (11 May 2016)

Snuffles said:



			Anyone suggested a Weimaraner ?
		
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sorry, no Weims.


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## chestnut cob (11 May 2016)

MotherOfChickens said:



			yours were beautiful, they are beautiful but I guess I've been put off by the rep of needing endless galloping and I have no idea what their recall/prey drive is like?
		
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They don't need endless galloping IME, though they do need a decent amount of exercise.
We found the bitch was better than the dog, who took quite a bit of training but that could well be down to our inexperience as we got the dog first.  The bitch was great, Dad took her beating and she was well behaved if a bit ineffectual since he didn't know how to train her properly.  She could be taken anywhere, on or off the lead, never ran away, always came back, always eager to learn, very intelligent, wasn't bothered about chasing things, didn't run off after other dogs.


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## MotherOfChickens (11 May 2016)

ok, added to the list  have always admired them! I know one of our directors has one but she doesnt bring him to work. 

I currently have a bitch, I don't tend to have bitches tbh and have never had two together. What are people's take on having two bitches? Current dog is assertive and has occasionally gone a bit OTT when playing (a staffy thing ?) with other dogs (but they have all been male now I think of it). She has been fine with younger and older bitches thats she's been with.


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## chestnut cob (11 May 2016)

You should prob talk to more people than me as my sample of 2 isn't exactly representative, of course!   There is bound to be a Dalmatian forum out there so might be worth asking on there for people's experiences.
There are issues with deafness in the breed but the pups should be tested before sale so you'll know you're OK.


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## ester (11 May 2016)

If you get a dalmatian you need to get a carriage to go with it


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## MotherOfChickens (11 May 2016)

ester said:



			If you get a dalmatian you need to get a carriage to go with it 

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not sure about a carriage-would a saddle chariot do?


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## MotherOfChickens (11 May 2016)

chestnut cob said:



			You should prob talk to more people than me as my sample of 2 isn't exactly representative, of course!   There is bound to be a Dalmatian forum out there so might be worth asking on there for people's experiences.
There are issues with deafness in the breed but the pups should be tested before sale so you'll know you're OK.
		
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oh please, I sometimes collaborate with welfare 'scientists', they dream of n = 2 lol!

I will look about. When I googled 'behaviour problems, beagles' I found a lot of people who shouldn't have a pet at all..


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## ester (11 May 2016)

I couldn't do beagles because of hte noise


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## chestnut cob (11 May 2016)

MotherOfChickens said:



			oh please, I sometimes collaborate with welfare 'scientists', they dream of n = 2 lol!

I will look about. When I googled 'behaviour problems, beagles' I found a lot of people who shouldn't have a pet at all..
		
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My parents had beagles when they were in their 20s (parents, not the beagles!) and said both were v naughty and would never have another.  Also worked with a guy who had one which he needed a professional dog trainer to help him sort out, but TBF he (man, not dog) was a bit dim so not sure he helped the situation.
If I ever get the time for a dog I would go for another Dalmatian, for sure.  Or a Whippet!


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## MotherOfChickens (11 May 2016)

I like the noise lol! I like a chatty dog, (not a yappy, reactive barky type). Setter would talk to us all the time but rarely barked. Nova talks too but that does generally end up in barking-she's quiet when told though 

most of the problems I saw with beagles were people trying to only have the one (they need dog company), not exercising it enough (one poster proudly said her beagle got long walks of 30mins a day) ,leaving it alone for hours a day, not teaching bite inhibition as pups and thinking locking it in a yard or spare room with some toys was adequate stimulation  

I have chatted with various breeders and have recently met some owners and their beagles. I'm not sure I could stand that much food obsession-that and a high wandering instinct and ability to climb has made me think again. I do find a certain level of naughtiness funny though (please note-that doesnt mean I let them away with it!) and I like a dog to be a bit a clown. I think most of them are though!


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## smja (11 May 2016)

If you like the smooth collie, have you thought about a Welsh collie? Ours loves to run for hours and has mad moments of dashing about, but generally happy to stay inside and sleep. Very affectionate, friendly dog with a nice bark but not noisy. Not destructive in the house and behaves brilliantly with our blind grandfather - never gets in his way and is very gentle. Loves titbits but doesn't beg for them or steal food.

Caveat: ours is not to be trusted off lead with livestock. However, he was a rescue we got at age 2, he'd never been walked or socialised with other animals - if we had him from a puppy I think he would be fine as he's so trainable for other things.


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## MotherOfChickens (11 May 2016)

smja said:



			If you like the smooth collie, have you thought about a Welsh collie? Ours loves to run for hours and has mad moments of dashing about, but generally happy to stay inside and sleep. Very affectionate, friendly dog with a nice bark but not noisy. Not destructive in the house and behaves brilliantly with our blind grandfather - never gets in his way and is very gentle. Loves titbits but doesn't beg for them or steal food.

Caveat: ours is not to be trusted off lead with livestock. However, he was a rescue we got at age 2, he'd never been walked or socialised with other animals - if we had him from a puppy I think he would be fine as he's so trainable for other things.
		
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no I haven't actually. I am wary of collies in general because (I had one lol) I have disabled step kids that have quite severe tics, mostly they present as hand flapping.They can also be very loud with no warning and have very poor control of their limbs generally. They are very tall now too (both are taller than me and although I call them kids they are 21 and 16). Kids and dogs are never left alone but its handy if the kids can relax around the dogs and the dogs around them (another reason for not getting a very large dog, the kids are quite worried by large dogs). My setter grew up with them and was fab and Nova is very good too (Nova is a big hit with SD!).There's a strong likelihood both kids will be in chairs at some point as well.

 My understanding is many smooth collies are used as PAT dogs and have a very low herding instinct (mostly!). So I've spoken to a couple of breeders about this and they have the smooths around their young kids with no issues. If the Welshes are similar I will certainly consider them if I can find any close-ish.


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## gunnergundog (11 May 2016)

MotherOfChickens said:



			sorry, no Weims.
		
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Would that include the long haired variant too?  (Lighter build than the shorthair - more like a working goldie , little hair and better temperament in my experience.)

http://www.dogworld.co.uk/product.php/59674//Readers-Photos/WEI-Tohme
http://dogoftheday.com/archive/2004/August/14.html


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## MotherOfChickens (11 May 2016)

gunnergundog said:



			Would that include the long haired variant too?  (Lighter build than the shorthair - more like a working goldie , little hair and better temperament in my experience.)

http://www.dogworld.co.uk/product.php/59674//Readers-Photos/WEI-Tohme
http://dogoftheday.com/archive/2004/August/14.html

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didnt know you could get a long haired one  I do prefer the look of those but have had not great experiences with normal types (ex YO had one that was a liability and I've dog sat a couple more). 


any links/contacts of working goldie breeders anyone?


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## Thistle (12 May 2016)

Search out gundog for sale sites on FB.  The pedigree gundog page is quite busy.  I know of a planned litter. Pups probably ready early 2017 as mating failed this year so fingers crossed.  A pup for me.  In Herts though so a long way from you.


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## RunToEarth (12 May 2016)

MotherOfChickens said:



			will I get in trouble for that one  ? I have seen one or two I think, and they would be the sort of build (and hair quantity) I can cope with. Will need to do some searching, its not always easy to find what I want up here.
		
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Mine is a working bred goldie and is much lighter in build to a lot you see around. She loves her job, but she is just as happy lounging about being your friend as she is working. I think some breeds absolutely need to be working, whereas other working breeds not so much - my friend has a vizsla who loves her job, but if it is raining? Absolutely not, no way, she's an indoor dog on those days.


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## lurcherlu (12 May 2016)

you've ruled out sight hounds, i haven't read the entire thread but why? They can be stock broken and live side by side with small furies without having to cause death and destruction, my lurcher is a rescue i worked him hard for 4 seasons and he will kill my mums chickens but that is because he wasn't bought up with them He used to ride out with me all the time along the roads across fields etc and had the best days ever with him, he is about 11 now and spends his days asleep but as soon as i pick up the leads or the spaniels whistle he is wide awake. I've had two lurchers one very easy (in the end  ) and one wild nut case who belonged to my exhusband. I would highly recommend a lurcher with collie in it , I love the challenges of the saluki type i have and i will eventually have a pure bred saluki- really wanted an Afghan hound and mums a dog groomer and is wanting one to groom daily but where we live is red tinny mud and I couldnt cope with the mess. Whippets are lovely dogs, with the right amount of energy and an edge to them imo . Border collies are all so different, my mums had two pure breds and they are both so different, y grandad had the brother of the first one we had and he was crazy and huggggggge where as mollie was dainty and beautifu, a gaurd dog like no other and so highly intelligent, the poor ducks would be put to bed at least 5 times a day. Working gun dogs imo need work, we have  an ess and hes so gorgeous and lovely and will be pushed in a pram and carried like a baby, but without gundog training i think he would be out of control the stamina is crazy with him !!


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## MotherOfChickens (12 May 2016)

RunToEarth said:



			my friend has a vizsla who loves her job, but if it is raining? Absolutely not, no way, she's an indoor dog on those days.
		
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see, a dog that really hates rain is a bit problematic here lol!


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## MotherOfChickens (12 May 2016)

lurcherlu said:



			you've ruled out sight hounds, i haven't read the entire thread but why? They can be stock broken and live side by side with small furies without having to cause death and destruction, my lurcher is a rescue i worked him hard for 4 seasons and he will kill my mums chickens but that is because he wasn't bought up with them He used to ride out with me all the time along the roads across fields etc and had the best days ever with him, he is about 11 now and spends his days asleep but as soon as i pick up the leads or the spaniels whistle he is wide awake. I've had two lurchers one very easy (in the end  ) and one wild nut case who belonged to my exhusband. I would highly recommend a lurcher with collie in it , I love the challenges of the saluki type i have and i will eventually have a pure bred saluki- really wanted an Afghan hound and mums a dog groomer and is wanting one to groom daily but where we live is red tinny mud and I couldnt cope with the mess. Whippets are lovely dogs, with the right amount of energy and an edge to them imo . Border collies are all so different, my mums had two pure breds and they are both so different, y grandad had the brother of the first one we had and he was crazy and huggggggge where as mollie was dainty and beautifu, a gaurd dog like no other and so highly intelligent, the poor ducks would be put to bed at least 5 times a day. Working gun dogs imo need work, we have  an ess and hes so gorgeous and lovely and will be pushed in a pram and carried like a baby, but without gundog training i think he would be out of control the stamina is crazy with him !!
		
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ok, this sort of thread is always difficult because everyone loves 'their' breed and gets a little bewildered as to why someone else might not want one. I appreciate that the majority of dogs, taken from a young age and properly socialised would do the job I want. My breed is setters, I've been obsessed with them all my life. I fully appreciate they may not be the right for the home I can offer right now, hence this thread. 

I've owned BCs, I do _not_ want another one. I do not want a sight hound-I have typed out several times why I do not want one but then deleted it as I don't need a pile on. Its enough to say, I do _not_ want a sight hound.


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## ester (12 May 2016)

nothing a good coat can't resolve 

RTE do you have any recent pics of your girl? How old is she now?


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## MotherOfChickens (12 May 2016)

ester said:



			nothing a good coat can't resolve 

RTE do you have any recent pics of your girl? How old is she now?
		
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remind me to send you a picture of what our place can look like in the middle of a low  what I actually want is one of those sailing overalls we were given in Iceland to go whale watching (with the built in buoyancy!). 

RTE's girl is beautiful, I will be adding them to the list and I've even had a thought as to someone I know who might well know some breeders. (thanks for the tip as well Thistle)


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## RunToEarth (16 May 2016)

ester said:



			nothing a good coat can't resolve 

RTE do you have any recent pics of your girl? How old is she now?
		
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I did send one to MoC last week via PM - didn't want to bore the whole forum  

She will be two in September, she has been shooting this season and has shown a lot of promise, retrieved almost everything asked of her, ducks off of the pond and two or three difficult woodcock. She sometimes gets too excited and her action is so different to a Springer, she has those really hapless moments where she bounds past quite obvious birds and can't find things. 

at home she's my best friend, she is very well behaved in the house but basically is spoilt to death and is usually squished on the same piece of furniture as one of us! 

At work:





At rest:





At play:


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## ihatework (16 May 2016)

MotherOfChickens said:



			ok, this sort of thread is always difficult because everyone loves 'their' breed and gets a little bewildered as to why someone else might not want one. I appreciate that the majority of dogs, taken from a young age and properly socialised would do the job I want. My breed is setters, I've been obsessed with them all my life. I fully appreciate they may not be the right for the home I can offer right now, hence this thread. 

I've owned BCs, I do _not_ want another one. I do not want a sight hound-I have typed out several times why I do not want one but then deleted it as I don't need a pile on. Its enough to say, I do _not_ want a sight hound.
		
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Have you considered a sighthound MoC *IHWrunsawayquickly*
A good working retriever would be super. As would a toller - they aren't dissimilar.


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## Clodagh (16 May 2016)

There is a poodle x rottie pup on preloved, I thought that looked quite nice, but it is in middlesex so not terribly convenient! It is a sensibel price too, and not listed as a rottiepoo!


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## MotherOfChickens (16 May 2016)

Update: OH and I had a long chat. He's no longer that keen on another setter but we've not completely ruled them out (well I havent-the IRAW were lovely and not as loopy, pup will also not be an only dog).He doesn't want another 'difficult' dog and the rescue has made him appreciate an easier one (puppydom excepted)  I have been reading up on dallies and it seems bitches are way easier than dogs but again, not ruled out. I am a bit concerned with the MRD1 problem in the smooths but again, not ruled out although there are no breeders in Scotland. We go to the SKC show on saturday to have a look at those breeds we aren't familiar with-including tollers.

However, after doing much online searching, I can honestly say nothing has made me quite as excited as the setters apart from the working GRs and I've been in touch with a breeder (who is even in the same country lol) who knows of a litter expected in June. So we'll see how the next few days turn out-I've still no real idea on size of the working GRs-height and weight RTE? (ball park!). We'd be wanting a bitch.


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## MotherOfChickens (16 May 2016)

Clodagh said:



			There is a poodle x rottie pup on preloved, I thought that looked quite nice, but it is in middlesex so not terribly convenient! It is a sensibel price too, and not listed as a rottiepoo!
		
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a bit far


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## chillipup (16 May 2016)

There's a 7 month old tiny Setter bitch on dogsblog.com for adoption (fosterers are in the Midlands)


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## MotherOfChickens (16 May 2016)

chillipup said:



			There's a 7 month old tiny Setter bitch on dogsblog.com for adoption (fosterers are in the Midlands)
		
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thanks Chilipup=hope she finds a great home. I am really anti these rescues spaying at such a young age-I understand why but its not justifiable IMO, 6 months is way too young.


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## MurphysMinder (16 May 2016)

I'm not sure if you were hoping to see smooth colllies at SKC but they are on the Friday.


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## Luci07 (16 May 2016)

MotherOfChickens said:



			thanks Chilipup=hope she finds a great home. I am really anti these rescues spaying at such a young age-I understand why but its not justifiable IMO, 6 months is way too young.
		
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My vet spayed my youngest Stafford at 7 months as she was going under for X-rays and was adamant it would be fine. My dog bounced back immediately. Just a note back to the dominance of your staffy X. It's not a Stafford trait per se, more a bitch trying to be top dog. My Stafford boy is actually pretty hen pecked..not what the normal perception of a Stafford! 

And my advice after reading all the threads is...the advice and comments are interesting but just follow your heart. We all get to know and love "our" breeds and there are certain traits which you could miss in a different breed. So as an example, my 3 are big people lovers and pleasers, exceptionally cuddley and stick to me like glue when out. This would annoy some people but I don't like dogs who are more standoffish!


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## ester (16 May 2016)

Thanks RTE  she is beautiful and lovely to see a svelte more sporty type.


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## MotherOfChickens (16 May 2016)

MurphysMinder said:



			I'm not sure if you were hoping to see smooth colllies at SKC but they are on the Friday.
		
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yes I know-I will try and make it but am now waiting on horse transport in the morning, OH won't be coming on the friday.


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## MotherOfChickens (16 May 2016)

Luci07 said:



			My vet spayed my youngest Stafford at 7 months as she was going under for X-rays and was adamant it would be fine. My dog bounced back immediately. Just a note back to the dominance of your staffy X. It's not a Stafford trait per se, more a bitch trying to be top dog. My Stafford boy is actually pretty hen pecked..not what the normal perception of a Stafford! 
!
		
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ah, thanks for that-she's just a bit of a madam  , spaying young just not something I would choose to do in my own dog, especially a large dog. I'd just prefer to wait until they are grown.


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## MotherOfChickens (16 May 2016)

MotherOfChickens said:



			yes I know-I will try and make it but am now waiting on horse transport in the morning, OH won't be coming on the friday.
		
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meant to say-thanks! sorry


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## MagicMelon (16 May 2016)

Whats wrong with a "hybrid"?  Adore our labradoodle - fantastic dog who is the most perfect family dog, great with my horses and cats and very easy to do. She's just the easiest dog to have around, always happy


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## MotherOfChickens (16 May 2016)

MagicMelon said:



			Whats wrong with a "hybrid"?  Adore our labradoodle - fantastic dog who is the most perfect family dog, great with my horses and cats and very easy to do. She's just the easiest dog to have around, always happy 

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I know some lovely ones, but I don't want one and I don't want to pay £££ for one. Obviously there are breeders that do it properly but I think many people's problem with them is that mostly they aren't done well (health testing etc).


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## Thistle (17 May 2016)

Did you see the BBC 2 programme last night.  The family buying the Cavapoo?  It was explained briefly about health testing and that it was just as important for a X breed.  The pup the family bought was  £900 from unhealth tested parents!!!!!!


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## Clodagh (17 May 2016)

Thistle said:



			Did you see the BBC 2 programme last night.  The family buying the Cavapoo?  It was explained briefly about health testing and that it was just as important for a X breed.  The pup the family bought was  £900 from unhealth tested parents!!!!!!
		
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You have to wonder!
Our keeper's lab doesn't show her seasons and his springer dog caught her. (Both fully health tested in this case although not relevant). He said he decided not to have her jabbed as the pups as 'springadors' would be worth more than pure breeds - nuts!


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## Thistle (17 May 2016)

Clodagh said:



			You have to wonder!
Our keeper's lab doesn't show her seasons and his springer dog caught her. (Both fully health tested in this case although not relevant). He said he decided not to have her jabbed as the pups as 'springadors' would be worth more than pure breeds - nuts!
		
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Our local shoot has a springardor, it loves to hunt but will not retrieve . It has the drive and craziness of the spaniel and the slight laziness of some labs when it comes to multiple retrieves. Does one or two then downs tools.

My little Springer will hunt and retrieve to hand all day.


To be fair the dog was an accident and given to him by a keeper.

It's crazy how they get designer titles. I have nothing against x breeding for a purpose, eg original Labradoodles  from Australia where they were bred a no shed guide dogs for people with allergies.

If health tests are available for the pure breeds then they should be applied when breeding no matter what the x.

Someone local wants to use my ESS over her cocker. Her bitch is working strain and docked but comes from a back yard breeder who had multiple litters of different breeds, who didn't even know exact dates of birth.

My dog has the potential to become a desirable sire as he is a good worker and as a product of fully health tested parents we know he cannot carry some genetically inherited diseases. As an owner  I wouldn't want him siring pups who may carry problems.


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## Bellasophia (17 May 2016)

MofC ..if you  have set your heart on a smooth collie you could ask the breeder to do the swab test for mdr1 on a pup before you  buy..lt only costs 30 pounds so would be worth it...plus choose a breeder who tests the parents and you are sailing free..
 I've followed your thread and this breed  would be a great choice for your set up..or a lab ..


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## MotherOfChickens (17 May 2016)

Bellasophia said:



			MofC ..if you  have set your heart on a smooth collie you could ask the breeder to do the swab test for mdr1 on a pup before you  buy..lt only costs 30 pounds so would be worth it...plus choose a breeder who tests the parents and you are sailing free..
 I've followed your thread and this breed  would be a great choice for your set up..or a lab ..

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of all the breeders I've looked at so far-of those testing and expecting pups noone is using parents that are clear-they are crossing homozygous with heterozygous 'carriers' (i.e. partially affected). Some are not testing at all as they work on the premis that its best to treat all of them as though they are affected anyway. It seems as though they are mostly shown here and the breeders don't seem bothered by it. 

On the one hand I think the risks can be avoided, but then your are talking of avoiding those risks for 12 years or so.


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