# Boots, tops, garter straps, spurs, spur staps



## Judgemental (25 October 2010)

By popular request I have started this thread. It seems there are an increasing number of folk hunting and wanting to hunt, who are coming onto this forum for help and guidance.

The subject of:  boots, tops, garter straps, spurs, spur staps is not really covered in any detail elsewhere, so here's my contribution.

Top Boots, i.e. black boots with brown tops should only be worn with a Pink Coat (it's Pink not Red) or colour of the hunt livery. 

A black coat for gentlemen and blue coat for ladies should be accompanied with black boots and all tops should be removed.

Garter Straps should be white only with top boots and black with black boots.

Spurs generally, should be snub nosed worn with black staps on black boots. 

One is incorrectly dressed not to have spurs with black boots and black or blue coat.


----------



## Daddy_Long_Legs (25 October 2010)

I thought that men could wear topped boots regardless of the colour of their jacket!


----------



## Capriole (25 October 2010)

are dummy spurs acceptable?


----------



## tootsietoo (25 October 2010)

Ladies may wear black or navy coats.  A friend of mine had a new one made by Frank Hall and was told that both are correct but that "black is more correct" - if that is possible!  I think I prefer the slightly less girly look of a black coat.

Also, garter straps are an anachronism now.  They were originally to hook through the buttons of your breeches to stop them coming up, but now we have stretchy fabrics and velcro they're not really needed.  Well anyway that's what I tell everyone as I cannot justify replacing my fancy non-garter-strapped dressage boots with hunting boots!

And I would love to know the definitive answer to the Pink/Red question.  Apparently Mr Pink made the original red coat, but when he made it it would have been a red coat wouldn't it?  And it is actually red, so it's not inaccurate to call it a red coat really, is it?

It really is too late for a fascinatingly pedantic conversation on hunting dress though, I must go to bed.  You are keeping me up Judgemental!


----------



## Daddy_Long_Legs (25 October 2010)

Mr Pink didn't make the first hunt coat. There is no recorded details of a tailor called pink in London. Thomas Pink didn't come along until way after the first pink coats!

I don't think there is a definite answer to why the coats are pink but I think it is appropriate to call them scarlet? Feel free to correct me!


----------



## MissySmythe (25 October 2010)

Oooh entering the minefield here!

OK, as far as I know, the Thomas Pink of the 'pink coat' was an 18th century chappie, and the brand of today's times is named after him, but no connection. Certainly when I was a youngster it would have been considered very infra dig to refer to a hunt coat as 'red'.

On a similarly fogy-ish note, garter straps, whether one wears buttoned breeches or not, are essential. Boots look very naff without on the hunting field unless they are field boot style (and worn with appropriate rig)

On spurs I recall many years ago a hunter judge who told me straight "My dear girl, a boot is not correctly dressed without a spur". (I left the spurs off that particular horse as it was a young nutter we were trying to educate. It didn't cart the judge though!)

Happy sartorial discussions!


----------



## spacefaer (26 October 2010)

Judgemental, if you are going to be so pedantic about hunt dress, why not go the whole way?

Truly traditional hunt dress should be
either a silk hat, scarlet coat, white breeches, top boots  
or silk hat worn with black coat, white or fawn breeches and top boots

Caps were worn by farmers, masters and hunt staff. Farmers wore them with plain or "butcher" boots and masters or hunt staff wore top boots.

At this time, women were riding side saddle.

IMHO it's more important that people trying hunting for the first time are made to feel welcome, rather than initially intimidated by this minutiae.


----------



## Judgemental (26 October 2010)

HuntingmadinEire said:



			I thought that men could wear topped boots regardless of the colour of their jacket!
		
Click to expand...

No that is simply not correct. Black coat and top boots, tut tut. 

I knew this thread would generate a comment or two on Pink and Red. It's Pink - no arguments - Wikipedia confirms the same!

I suppose one might as well throw the other old chestnut into the pot. The subject of Stocks and Tie's

In my humble opinion it's all the fault of The late 10th Duke of Beaufort, who felt like stirring the pot with his humor and once said "stock is something one cooks with and the thing around your neck is a tie".

So the hoi poli, the chattering masses all said "his grace said it's a hunting tie not a stock".  

Both the Oxford Dictionary and Wikipedia describe a stock as follows:

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: (June 2009) 

A stock-tie, or stock, is a white tie worn around the neck of a competitor riding in an equestrian event. It is required in fox hunting, dressage, and the dressage phase of eventing, and is also seen in show jumping. It is always worn with a pin (usually plain and gold, although fancier pins are also seen), stuck through the knot or just below the knot.

The stock is traditionally used in the hunt field as a safety measure: in case of injury, the tie can be used as a temporary bandage for a horse's leg or sling for a rider's arm. It is also useful in keeping rain or wind out of the rider's collar.They are often worn by riders along with a shadbelly.

Off the hunting field, the stock tie was a formal tie worn in the 19th century by gentlemen. These old stock ties were often black or white, made of gauze, fine cotton or silk. The stock tie was sometimes starched or otherwise reinforced to be stiff around the neck: with the chin forced up, the wearer was thought to look more important and formal. Stocks buckled or hooked up the back and sometimes had bows or ruffles attached to the front.


----------



## spacefaer (26 October 2010)

Judgemental, I'm gutted.  I have always been under the impression that you wrote with some authority based on years of experience.

I shall no longer take your posts seriously, knowing that you are basing your information on the notoriously inaccurate Wikipedia.


----------



## Daddy_Long_Legs (26 October 2010)

spacefaer said:



			Judgemental, if you are going to be so pedantic about hunt dress, why not go the whole way?

Truly traditional hunt dress should be
either a silk hat, scarlet coat, white breeches, top boots  
or silk hat worn with black coat, white or fawn breeches and top boots

Caps were worn by farmers, masters and hunt staff. Farmers wore them with plain or "butcher" boots and masters or hunt staff wore top boots.

At this time, women were riding side saddle.

IMHO it's more important that people trying hunting for the first time are made to feel welcome, rather than initially intimidated by this minutiae.
		
Click to expand...

Totally agree Spacefaer to be honest I couldn't give a rattle if someone is wearing spurs or not, if you are not comfortable wearing spurs don't wear them. 

It's the 21st century not the 18th plus back onto the subject of topped boots, wear them if you want.


----------



## Judgemental (26 October 2010)

spacefaer said:



			Judgemental, I'm gutted.  I have always been under the impression that you wrote with some authority based on years of experience.

I shall no longer take your posts seriously, knowing that you are basing your information on the notoriously inaccurate Wikipedia. 

Click to expand...

Specefaer, hold hard a moment. It really is amazing how many times this discussion comes up on this forum. Hitherto I have never been involved in the 'Stock Pot' threads but have read several.

It's a stock not a tie, my personal view.

However, as it is constantly debated I felt that Wikipedia was a bipartisan non-hunting, non-equestrian authority, bearing in mind the number of times the issue has arisen.

On the subject of spurs. I disagree; we have been subjected to a ban.

Therefore etiquette, standards, disciplines, customs, procedures and rules, even the archaic ones, should be observed in order to maintain hunting and hopefully restore the status quo.

Anyway it's all part of the ritual of our little do and don'ts, the curious hunting expressions and adds to the greater glory of hunting.


----------



## boneo (26 October 2010)

May I take issue on one point raised on the question of boots, the late Ronnie Marmont, surely one of the best dressed men ever to grace covert side, and many others, including myself, hunted for years in a black swallow tailed coat, hunt buttons, silk hats and mahogany topped boots, we also wore our 'pink' but felt the swallow tail much more stylish, and on warm days, more comfortable, I look back over some 60 years, when the field was really well dressed, and people took pride in their turnout, as did the grooms with the horses


----------



## tootsietoo (26 October 2010)

Discussions about turnout are entertaining but, as we probably all agree, turnout is not the main event by a long shot!  How people behave on the hunting field are far more important!  I got my hunt buttons whilst wearing naff dressage boots 

I have a hunting obsessed friend who wouldn't go near a horse in a million years, and he sits on his quad picking apart the turnout of the mounted field.  It really does annoy me - he's a on a quad, that's not very 19th century is it, let the rest of us into the 21st century too!!


----------



## spacefaer (26 October 2010)

tootsietoo said:



			Discussions about turnout are entertaining but, as we probably all agree, turnout is not the main event by a long shot!  How people behave on the hunting field are far more important!  I got my hunt buttons whilst wearing naff dressage boots 

I have a hunting obsessed friend who wouldn't go near a horse in a million years, and he sits on his quad picking apart the turnout of the mounted field.  It really does annoy me - he's a on a quad, that's not very 19th century is it, let the rest of us into the 21st century too!!
		
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more TT


----------



## Judgemental (27 October 2010)

tootsietoo said:



			Discussions about turnout are entertaining but, as we probably all agree, turnout is not the main event by a long shot!  How people behave on the hunting field are far more important!  I got my hunt buttons whilst wearing naff dressage boots  *Too laissez-faire for my taste. How very provincial. Next you will be telling us you turn your coat collar up when it rains! *

Click to expand...

In my world turnout and being *CORRECTLY* presented according to custom and procedure is a mark of respect to the master.

Anything else is considered bad manners and a discourtesy to the mastership.

The master and the hunt staff are all turned out exectly and precisely as prescribed, therefore every member of The Field should be similarly attired.


----------



## sonjafoers (27 October 2010)

I've just been on a 3 day hunting course and one of the evenings discussions was based around etiquette and dress. The coats were referred to as 'red', so I asked the question re 'pink' and was told either is correct but these days it is more common to hear them referred to as red


----------



## Simsar (27 October 2010)

Judgemental said:



			In my world turnout and being *CORRECTLY* presented according to custom and procedure is a mark of respect to the master.

Anything else is considered bad manners and a discourtesy to the mastership.

The master and the hunt staff are all turned out exactly and precisely as prescribed, therefore every member of The Field should be similarly attired.
		
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more J, My mate Ginge married to SU huntsman wears dressage boots and I hate it.  Each to their own unfortunately.  Sorry I prefere tradition. xx


----------



## MissySmythe (27 October 2010)

Simsar said:



			Couldn't agree more J, My mate Ginge married to SU huntsman wears dressage boots and I hate it.  Each to their own unfortunately.  Sorry I prefere tradition. xx
		
Click to expand...

I too prefer tradition and agree it is a mark of respect. It is also more fun actually, part of the excitement of hunting.


----------



## posie_honey (27 October 2010)

i'd rather see a large field of relaxed happy courteous riders enjoying a day and welcoming any support for hunting - regardless of attire faux pas or horse type etc - than a small field of unwelcoming traditionalist elite who - quite frankly - are _often _the epitamy of what the general public hates about hunting

and btw - yes i do prefer tradition - and its lovely to see totally correct attire - but i also think that its strick adherance to such 'rules' and catty comments regarding incorrect dress that can put people off the scene when we need as many supporters as possible


----------



## Capriole (27 October 2010)

spacefaer said:





posie_honey said:



			i'd rather see a large field of relaxed happy courteous riders enjoying a day and welcoming any support for hunting - regardless of attire faux pas or horse type etc - than a small field of unwelcoming traditionalist elite who - quite frankly - are _often _the epitamy of what the general public hates about hunting

and btw - yes i do prefer tradition - and its lovely to see totally correct attire - but i also think that its strick adherance to such 'rules' and catty comments regarding incorrect dress that can put people off the scene when we need as many supporters as possible
		
Click to expand...

mm, I agree with these statements.

I think what I might find more intimidating than the strict rules on traditional dress is, on being told spurs are correct and essential, I ask a perfectly reasonable question about the acceptability or otherwise of dummy spurs which went totally ignored and unanswered.  
Which kind of makes me imagine that if I were to go hunting Id likely be ignored and talked over and made to feel thoroughly unwelcome because I dont know what spurs/gloves/other to wear...
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Judgemental (27 October 2010)

posie_honey said:



			i'd rather see a large field of relaxed happy courteous riders enjoying a day and welcoming any support for hunting - regardless of attire faux pas or horse type etc - than a small field of unwelcoming traditionalist elite who - quite frankly - are _often _the epitamy of what the general public hates about hunting

and btw - yes i do prefer tradition - and its lovely to see totally correct attire - but i also think that its strick adherance to such 'rules' and catty comments regarding incorrect dress that can put people off the scene when we need as many supporters as possible
		
Click to expand...

*If one belongs to a club (any type of club) one observes the rules and dress code!*


----------



## posie_honey (27 October 2010)

Judgemental said:



*If one belongs to a club (any type of club) one observes the rules and dress code!*

Click to expand...

congratulations - you have just probably

a) added fuel to the anti-hunt "all hunting folk are snobs" fire - the LACS would love you!

b) prob made some people who wanted to try hunting now feel like they can't/wont as they will be looked down apon for incorrect dress etc

and you call yourself a pro.....


----------



## Capriole (27 October 2010)

posie_honey said:



			b) prob made some people who wanted to try hunting now feel like they can't/wont as they will be looked down apon for incorrect dress etc

.
		
Click to expand...

 no probably about it tbh.


----------



## posie_honey (27 October 2010)

Sorcerers Apprentice said:



			I think what I might find more intimidating than the strict rules on traditional dress is, on being told spurs are correct and essential, I ask a perfectly reasonable question about the acceptability or otherwise of dummy spurs which went totally ignored and unanswered.  
Which kind of makes me imagine that if I were to go hunting Id likely be ignored and talked over and made to feel thoroughly unwelcome because I dont know what spurs/gloves/other to wear...
		
Click to expand...

sorry i didn't pick up on your post - i was too busy getting onto my soap box 

to be honest - if you want to try hunting and your horse doesnt need spurs then don't wear them  

if someone is rude/unwelcoming for not having spurs on then they really are hammering the nail in their own coffin and god forbid where hunting is going if attiudes like that continue. most hunting folk nowdays recognise the need to be welcoming and supportive of anyone who shows an interest


----------



## Judgemental (27 October 2010)

posie_honey said:



			congratulations - you have just probably

a) added fuel to the anti-hunt "all hunting folk are snobs" fire - the LACS would love you! *Don't think their view will change*

b) prob made some people who wanted to try hunting now feel like they can't/wont as they will be looked down apon for incorrect dress etc

*If they follow the codes of practive and rules then they won't be looked down upon. Also they will be doing a great service and promoting tailoring, saddlers and boot makers etc. Those who wish to engage in hunting and are worried about not doing the right thing, they only have to come onto this forum where there will receive advice by the HGV Lorry load!/B]** l  

and you call yourself a pro.... I assume you mean professional?.....[/ QUOTE]*

Click to expand...


----------



## Capriole (27 October 2010)

posie_honey said:



			sorry i didn't pick up on your post - i was too busy getting onto my soap box 

to be honest - if you want to try hunting and your horse doesnt need spurs then don't wear them  

if someone is rude/unwelcoming for not having spurs on then they really are hammering the nail in their own coffin and god forbid where hunting is going if attiudes like that continue. most hunting folk nowdays recognise the need to be welcoming and supportive of anyone who shows an interest 

Click to expand...

thankyou posie honey 

i did want to try hunting, but neither I or my sharp young horse have ever been before, nor have I ever used spurs on him.  So I didnt feel the ideal place to use them would be on our first hunt, hence me asking about dummy spurs as I do want to make the effort to look correct. 

I must say I feel enough like an unwelcome guest at someone elses party on this thread, was dreading to think what reception Id have out hunting


----------



## Judgemental (27 October 2010)

Sorcerers Apprentice said:



			thankyou posie honey 

i did want to try hunting, but neither I or my sharp young horse have ever been before, nor have I ever used spurs on him.  So I didnt feel the ideal place to use them would be on our first hunt, hence me asking about dummy spurs as I do want to make the effort to look correct. 

I must say I feel enough like an unwelcome guest at someone elses party on this thread, was dreading to think what reception Id have out hunting 

Click to expand...

Sorcerers Appentice, I see you have no less that 1,616 posts on the Horse and Hound Forum, you are a Veteran and have been a member since 19 May 2006.

Is this your first post concerning hunting?


----------



## Kat (27 October 2010)

SA, I don't hunt although I'd like to. I have been along on foot to a few different hunts, and personally I think the majority of hunts I've come across would take the view that when you are trying hunting out the main thing is that you make an effort with turn out. 

Being neatly plaited and clean is respectful and failing to do turn out neatly is rude, to the hunt staff and the landowners. But people are understanding that as a newbie you may have only a tweed or only dressage topped boots or may not understand all of the finer points. 

The majority of the hunting fraternity (in my experience) would rather have someone new who is keen and polite turn up and be willing to learn than to stay away and never come because they haven't bought 100% the right kit. The sport will never thrive like that! 

Most "clubs" take a similar approach agreeing to bend the rules a little for prospective members to give them a taster and to help promote their sport. 

Don't be put off by one or two people with inflexible attitudes, the majority are much more friendly and understanding. And of course the hunts with an understanding, welcoming and encouraging attitude are the ones which will thrive in these difficult times, the others will surely struggle to maintain significant numbers of supporters.


----------



## Capriole (27 October 2010)

Judgemental, yes it is I believe.

(eta: I admit Im failing to see why this is relevant however...)


----------



## Judgemental (27 October 2010)

Sorcerers Apprentice said:



			Judgemental, yes it is I believe.

(eta: I admit Im failing to see why this is relevant however...)
		
Click to expand...

and you have started 89 Threads.


----------



## Capriole (27 October 2010)

and what is your point here?

seriuosly I dont understand what youre getting at.

Ive never been hunting, I asked a question about spurs.


----------



## posie_honey (27 October 2010)

Sorcerers Apprentice said:



			and what is your point here?

seriuosly I dont understand what youre getting at.

Ive never been hunting, I asked a question about spurs.
		
Click to expand...

don't worry - s/he's lost me too LOL!!

hopefully your local hunt will be a bit more welcoming and supportive - do try - you'll probably love it  and as long as you are neat and clean and trying to stick to the basic attire rules - plaited horse, dark jacket, light breeches, long boots and no bling/bright colours etc after opening meet (<< i have to add that or Mr/s "professional" Judgemental will be jumping up and down pulling his/her whiskers out as its tweed - sorry ratcatcher - before opening meet ) then i'm sure you;ll be fine - IF you and your horse enjoy it then you can buy the correct attire

speak to your local hunt secretary - they will (hopefully!) be helpful and welcoming and give you the best advice


----------



## Capriole (27 October 2010)

thanks posie honey 


I have dark and tweed jackets already, so thats not a problem.
Is a jockey skull with a velvet cover OK, or should it be a velvet cap? Id prefer to wear the skull tbh but have both...


----------



## Judgemental (27 October 2010)

Sorcerers Apprentice said:



			and what is your point here?

seriuosly I dont understand what youre getting at.

Ive never been hunting, I asked a question about spurs.
		
Click to expand...

Perhaps not but I just wonder how genuine your comments are bearing in mind on 18 September 2010 at 6:41 p.m you said:

" Re: So...... Why do you venture into the breeding forum???? 

I come in to read through threads looking for information.

I never dare to post threads asking questions in here anymore, as when I did, maybe 2 or 3 years ago? I DID feel the waves of disapproval you mentioned enfys, from some really rude people who may now have left".

Oh dear was that how you felt when going into the Breeding Forum, not too dissimilar to this one then?.

Then on 31 August 2010 at 08:34 am you said in Judging the Best Turned Out: 

"Judging a Best Turned Out... 

no, personally I think it should be judged on the horse being turned out to type, not discipline, rider dressed to suit, cleanliness of tack and horse... turnout etc. Not necessarily who paid the most and has the newest stuff though. 

i have a dislike for placings being given to ponies/horses where the owners have yes, obviously tried very hard but have turned their ponies out like a sows ear, brightly coloured numnahs, badly dressed etc., because 'theyve made the effort and tried really hard'...well so has everyone else, and if those other people look better, are better turned out, i think the placings should go to them" 

So you have strong views on the correctness of turnout etc in the show ring, why not the Hunting Field?

It appears you have an excellent knowledge of horses and all that that entails and it appears to me your comments are rhetorical.


----------



## posie_honey (27 October 2010)

Sorcerers Apprentice said:



			thanks posie honey 


I have dark and tweed jackets already, so thats not a problem.
Is a jockey skull with a velvet cover OK, or should it be a velvet cap? Id prefer to wear the skull tbh but have both...
		
Click to expand...

it should in theory be a velvet cap = i've always hunted in one = but tbh the JS is prob safer as no fixed peak - so if you feel happier in it then wear it


----------



## Spudlet (27 October 2010)

See, I'd love to try hunting one day, but the thought of being associated with people like the ones I met the other day puts me off. I'd be far too embarrassed!


----------



## Capriole (27 October 2010)

where on earth does it say I dont have strong feelings about turnout in the hunting field?
As I said IVE NEVER BEEN! 
Hence me asking a perfectly reasonable question about spurs so I COULD be correctly turned out.
I have no questions to ask you about show  turnout, I am fully aware what I should be wearing in the show ring, thank you. I was asking about hunting attire on a thread in the hunting forum.

As for the breeding forum, whats that got to do with anything?

this is all very odd.


----------



## Judgemental (27 October 2010)

Sorcerers Apprentice said:



			where on earth does it say I dont have strong feelings about turnout in the hunting field?
As I said IVE NEVER BEEN! 
Hence me asking a perfectly reasonable question about spurs so I COULD be correctly turned out.
I have no questions to ask you about show  turnout, I am fully aware what I should be wearing in the show ring, thank you. I was asking about hunting attire on a thread in the hunting forum. It's all Inter Alia.

As for the breeding forum, whats that got to do with anything? Your attitude
this is all very odd.
		
Click to expand...

As I say I think your comments are rhetorical.


----------



## Capriole (27 October 2010)

Judgemental said:



			It appears you have an excellent knowledge of horses and all that that entails and it appears to me your comments are rhetorical.
		
Click to expand...

thankyou.

but honestly, my question was genuine, not rhetorical.
It was a genuine question looking for an honest answer as I do like to be turned out well, but dont want to use proper spurs on this horse just yet.


----------



## Spudlet (27 October 2010)

posie_honey said:



			congratulations - you have just probably

a) added fuel to the anti-hunt "all hunting folk are snobs" fire - the LACS would love you!

b) prob made some people who wanted to try hunting now feel like they can't/wont as they will be looked down apon for incorrect dress etc

and you call yourself a pro.....
		
Click to expand...

Correct.

There's clearly no place for the likes of me, anyway!


----------



## posie_honey (27 October 2010)

Spudlet said:



			Correct.

There's clearly no place for the likes of me, anyway!
		
Click to expand...

hey - you'll be surprised - there are a lot of us normal folk out hunting too  

i don't have all the gear - and can't afford a subscription either - but my local hunt still welcomes me  and the secretary lets me do a 4 day deal so i can get out those precious few times that are the pinacle of my riding year tbh 

(i can't keep horse fit enough to hunt all season as i work full time and don't have lights at the field i keep her at - so winter riding mainly involves moon light lol! so realistically i can't really hunt beyond xmas anyway - so 4 days is about all i can manage - esp as i also having working dogs)


----------



## tootsietoo (27 October 2010)

Sorry SA, I also was too busy getting (only a little bit) annoyed to answer your question!  Personally, if you don't need spurs, I wouldn't wear them!  It would be more respectful to Huntsman, Masters, hosts and field to have an in-control horse than to have spurs on your boots in my opinion!

Suffice to say I think people who feel like JM are in the minority.  Some of us manage to be fully functioning useful members of hunts without the precisely correct equipment!

Oh and I would love love love a pair of made to measure Davies hunting boots, but I cannot spend £1000 odd on a pair when I have a very good pair of boots.  Which I do not intend to replace with a cheap version with garter straps, because they fit me perfectly are look quite elegant I think, despite being not quite correct.

And having argued with my friend about this for AGES over supper one night, I know it isn't possible to change the opinion of people like him and JM on turnout but, sorry, you'll have to put up with us because we are hunting too, so we may as well be nice to each other.  Provincial indeed!


----------



## Judgemental (27 October 2010)

What's with this spurs nonsence?

Can't folk ride a horse with spurs on without using them and keep their legs still.

Trouble is, some of these horses are so fat and insufficently run up, it's no wonder that they jabbed in the ribs all the time.

It's all down to skill!


----------



## posie_honey (27 October 2010)

Judgemental said:



			It's all down to skill!
		
Click to expand...

of which you clearly have in abundance


----------



## Simsar (27 October 2010)

Spud of course their is don't say that, thinking of starting my own hunt! x  I have two dogs and as you can only hunt with two thats OK.  But I would like to see traditional dress please. xxxx

The People who are arguing with JM I see one of you shows your horse, now do you turn out in correct attire I think so and if I was judging you it wouldn't make you win the class but the overall picture would help you stand out from the others, when I judge classes I do comment on correct dress especially for Hunter classes.  As I have said before traditional clothing has nothing to do with snobbery at all, I am from the East end of London so no snob but I like to dress the part and have well turned out horses,  I talk for England and wouldn't snub you just because I am dressed properly.  The Majority of people that hunt go for the jolly well we have to except that but what I hate is the no nothings that think they are doing the right thing and are clearly not.  I am affraid not many are aware of the horn blowing and who and what the huntsman are calling for be it the terrier man or the end of a cover etc, I just wish everybody in the field understood they are their to do a job not just smoke and drink and catch up on whats been going on since they last met.  Rant over its like banging your head against a wall.

JM I see you have adopted my red writing you cheeky sod. x


----------



## EAST KENT (27 October 2010)

Judgemental said:



			What's with this spurs nonsence?

Can't folk ride a horse with spurs on without using them and keep their legs still.

Trouble is, some of these horses are so fat and insufficently run up, it's no wonder that they jabbed in the ribs all the time.

It's all down to skill!
		
Click to expand...

I have to confess to ,oh dear ,using black boots sans spurs ,always! But,please please do  not wear those dreadful dressage type boots with the wavy tops,they look horrid at best anywhere..but simply dreadful out hunting. I mean,what are they..a poor imitation of the Household Cavalry boots..or what??
  Reasonable dress ,in being basic smartness is fine,it is not snobby with most packs..certain etiquette,in both manners and dress, is required and a good read up beforehand is an excellent idea.WHATEVER you do..DO NOT call hounds "dogs"...now THAT really does offend greatly.


----------



## tootsietoo (27 October 2010)

My boots are lovely!  Cavallos, not particularly wavy tops, but no garter straps because they are unnecessary!

East Kent, glad to hear you are breaking the spurs rule too!  (Although I do wear mine now as they are quite useful on my current mount, not so useful on my previous one!)

As long as you are interested in what is going on, tidy and jump off to open and shut gates whenever you can then I'm sure you (anyone) will be welcome with any hunt!


----------



## EAST KENT (27 October 2010)

I am sure your Cavallo boots are indeed lovely,but incorrect in the hunting field...plain straight tops please.


----------



## Simsar (27 October 2010)

EK meant pet dogs not hounds.


----------



## marmalade76 (27 October 2010)

tootsietoo said:



			As long as you are interested in what is going on, tidy and jump off to open and shut gates whenever you can then I'm sure you (anyone) will be welcome with any hunt!
		
Click to expand...

Quite agree - I have never worn spurs or garter straps out hunting - yet had a hunt virtually begging me to come out every week to gate shut as my horse was so good at it. So good I rarely had to jump off!


----------



## EAST KENT (27 October 2010)

Simsar said:



			EK meant pet dogs not hounds.
		
Click to expand...


----------



## rosie fronfelen (27 October 2010)

Judgemental said:



			and you have started 89 Threads.
		
Click to expand...

you are living in the past i am afraid- is it all about how many threads folk have posted(which i suspect it is) or bragging about proper hunt dress and code? I for one find you totally boring and insulting to people who are wanting to hunt, your speeches are enough to put new hunters off trying. Just leave them to dress tidily and go out and enjoy them selves. Thanks be to god you dont hunt this way as you would not be a popular person out in the field!!


----------



## Kat (27 October 2010)

Wow doesn't happen often but I just want to say - 

well said rosiefronfelen!!!!


----------



## xloopylozzax (27 October 2010)

judgmental, i think we ought to have a picture of you hunting (preferably at a recent meet, not 1930's), then we will all be clear on the correct turnout... there will be no chance for us to criticise will there.


----------



## Capriole (27 October 2010)

Simsar said:



			The People who are arguing with JM I see one of you shows your horse, now do you turn out in correct attire I think so and if I was judging you it wouldn't make you win the class but the overall picture would help you stand out from the others, when I judge classes I do comment on correct dress especially for Hunter classes.
		
Click to expand...

I dont know if Im the poster you mean here, but as I do show, I will answer it.  Yes I do show, and I take great care in my appearance. However I havent hunted as yet and so at this point I dont know all the finer detail on what is/is not acceptable in the hunting field, hence me asking about dummy spurs. I merely wanted to know if using dummy spurs would be acceptable (a better option than using no spurs whatsoever?), I honestly thought it was a reasonable question to ask.
I think I know better than to ask questions now though.


----------



## Simsar (27 October 2010)

No I mean't PH, and SA dummy spurs are a great idea, didn't mean you at all.

This is the thing people getting the wrong end of the stick.  I like to be turned out and do a job, People that go for the jolly hooly think we as well turned outs are stuck up our arses, not all smart people are stuck up.


----------



## xloopylozzax (27 October 2010)

its cant be any worse than my first taste of hunting- i was out hacking and we got caught up in the field, and the secretary asked me if i wanted to tag along for a bit. of course i jumped at the chance, in my checked breeches, long stripy socks, jod boots and jumper and nobody said anything and were really nice.

next time i went, i had a tweed (blue aswell, wasnt ruining my nice green show one), blue stock and dressage boots on. again nobody cared, we had a great time and people really made me feel welcome.

thats a sign of the times, i am going to hunt more regularily this season, which is far better than me saving up for the "correct" gear and not being able to go for the next 10 years (and so not paying the hunt)


----------



## Capriole (27 October 2010)

Simsar said:



			No I mean't PH, and SA dummy spurs are a great idea, didn't mean you at all.
		
Click to expand...

OK, thanks


----------



## Darkly_Dreaming_Dex (27 October 2010)

rosiefronfelen said:



			you are living in the past i am afraid- is it all about how many threads folk have posted(which i suspect it is) or bragging about proper hunt dress and code? I for one find you totally boring and insulting to people who are wanting to hunt, your speeches are enough to put new hunters off trying. Just leave them to dress tidily and go out and enjoy them selves. Thanks be to god you dont hunt this way as you would not be a popular person out in the field!!
		
Click to expand...

^^ Another first timer at agreeing with this poster 

we welcome all newcomers regardless of dress- although we would prefer it if they left the bling at home.. 
SA- dummy spurs always complete the look beautifully if you dont want to wear full spurs


----------



## tootsietoo (27 October 2010)

I don't usually get involved in heated internet debates, got better things to worry about!  But I have been mulling this over, and I think it's perhaps more a generational thing than a hunting thing.

Dress codes used to be quite important, but these days they just aren't considered so important.  For instance, racecourses don't enforce dress codes in members areas, most restaurants don't require ties and jackets (in fact I wouldn't go near a restaurant which did!) and most businesses have gone "business casual" in their dress requirements.  People don't make judgements on the basis of other people's dress as much as they used to.  And it's a good thing, because more flexible attitudes allow progress!  For instance, a lot of people now wear coats made of nylon hi-tech type fabric out shooting, which is probably a lot more effective than tweed!

I think many of an older generation haven't cottoned on to this yet, but they need to as they are becoming outnumbered by younger people who aren't as hidebound by dress codes and don't "read" the same messages from dress as they do.

Fixing a particular very detailed style of dress for hunting as correct is a bit pointless, surely, it doesn't allow progress in functionality.  And I think it is mostly about excluding people who "don't know" rather than actually caring about respect to others.


----------



## Simsar (27 October 2010)

Well I have just taken this from the MFHA 

RESPONSIBILITIES FOR HUNT FOLLOWERS
All followers of hunting enjoy access to large areas of countryside not always available to others. This and hunting's high visibility make it crucial that followers conform with accepted standards of good behaviour.

This means that: 

they must appreciate that they are guests of those on whose land they ride or walk;
they are punctual at the meet (the gathering at the start of a hunting day) and their turnout is clean, tidy and most importantly safe. It is necessary that followers attend the meet as special instructions may be given about the conduct of the day's hunting


----------



## Simsar (27 October 2010)

So I eat my Patey's LOL!


----------



## Simsar (27 October 2010)

http://www.mfha.org.uk/publications/about-hunting/code-of-good-hunting/


----------



## rosie fronfelen (27 October 2010)

Judgemental said:



			By popular request I have started this thread. It seems there are an increasing number of folk hunting and wanting to hunt, who are coming onto this forum for help and guidance.

The subject of:  boots, tops, garter straps, spurs, spur staps is not really covered in any detail elsewhere, so here's my contribution.

Top Boots, i.e. black boots with brown tops should only be worn with a Pink Coat (it's Pink not Red) or colour of the hunt livery. 

A black coat for gentlemen and blue coat for ladies should be accompanied with black boots and all tops should be removed.

Garter Straps should be white only with top boots and black with black boots.

Spurs generally, should be snub nosed worn with black staps on black boots. 

One is incorrectly dressed not to have spurs with black boots and black or blue coat.
		
Click to expand...

So who was the"popular request" from on boots, spurs, straps and wotnot? I appreciate non-hunters want to know this and that, but not to your extent!! Is there any chance of seeing a pic. of your hunter or any details of him/her?


----------



## Hanno Verian (27 October 2010)

Katt said:



			SA, I don't hunt although I'd like to. I have been along on foot to a few different hunts, and personally I think the majority of hunts I've come across would take the view that when you are trying hunting out the main thing is that you make an effort with turn out. 

Being neatly plaited and clean is respectful and failing to do turn out neatly is rude, to the hunt staff and the landowners. But people are understanding that as a newbie you may have only a tweed or only dressage topped boots or may not understand all of the finer points. 

The majority of the hunting fraternity (in my experience) would rather have someone new who is keen and polite turn up and be willing to learn than to stay away and never come because they haven't bought 100% the right kit. The sport will never thrive like that! 

Most "clubs" take a similar approach agreeing to bend the rules a little for prospective members to give them a taster and to help promote their sport. 

Don't be put off by one or two people with inflexible attitudes, the majority are much more friendly and understanding. And of course the hunts with an understanding, welcoming and encouraging attitude are the ones which will thrive in these difficult times, the others will surely struggle to maintain significant numbers of supporters.
		
Click to expand...

Well said, I've only just come across the this particular thread hence the lateness in posting, whilst hunts do vary in their attitude and the degree of warmth in their welcome, most hunts would be glad to see a new face. They don't tend to get too excited by newcomers being not strictly correctly dressed, as long as a reasonable effort has been made, then allowances are made too, providing that the horse and rider are well turned out, to the best of their ability. 

Threads like this are useful, in that any newcomer, can have an idea of the turnout of the subscribers and thus prepare themselves to fit in to the best their resources will allow. Nobody likes to feel that they are in the situation of committing an avoidable faux pas, that will draw unwelcome attention to them, and can glean information from here to enable them to source the right dress.


----------



## rosie fronfelen (27 October 2010)

Alec Swan and Judgemental, come out,come out wherever you are- people are asking questions on hunting!!


----------



## xloopylozzax (28 October 2010)

Judgemental, again, please can you post a picture of you at a meet (recent) so we all know what turnout to aim for. 

should be fairly simple if you are out regularily, if you are unsure on how to post pictures i am quite happy to show you.


----------



## combat_claire (28 October 2010)

Sorcerers Apprentice said:



			i did want to try hunting, but neither I or my sharp young horse have ever been before, nor have I ever used spurs on him.  So I didnt feel the ideal place to use them would be on our first hunt, hence me asking about dummy spurs as I do want to make the effort to look
		
Click to expand...

My hunt master always says if you don't need spurs then don't put them on. Quite frankly I would trust his opinion on the matter more than some faceless internet forum user. 

Having just looked back at my photos from last season, very few people are wearing spurs unless their ned needs it.


----------



## Baydale (28 October 2010)

If I didn't know better I'd think Judgemental was a troll. 

I would think most hunts would be grateful to see any newcomers in an effort to swell their coffers; therefore surely a tidily turned-out horse and rider who blended in for the day would hardly be noticed for not having spurs on? If a newcomer had any questions about the etiquette and form for the day, perhaps he/she should address these to the Secretary when forewarning them of their intention to hunt? That would certainly save us all getting our knickers in a twist with Judgemental being so Nazi about what's right and what's wrong...


----------



## combat_claire (28 October 2010)

Sorcerers Apprentice said:



			thanks posie honey 


I have dark and tweed jackets already, so thats not a problem.
Is a jockey skull with a velvet cover OK, or should it be a velvet cap? Id prefer to wear the skull tbh but have both...
		
Click to expand...

You can wear either, I have a jockey skull for normal lessons and hacking, but a smart velvet Showjumper xp or some such that I keep for best (i.e rare days mounted hunting). I'd always opt for headgear with modern standards and a chinstrap. 

Please don't think that everyone who hunts has got their head stuck so far up their own arse that their voices are muffled. As long as you have made an effort to be clean and tidy, then you will be welcomed by most hunting folk with a kind word and helpful advice.


----------



## combat_claire (28 October 2010)

Spudlet said:



			Correct.

There's clearly no place for the likes of me, anyway!
		
Click to expand...

Don't be daft Spudlet. There is a place for everyone out hunting. Normally I am tearing about the countryside in a shirt, ripped jeans, muddy wellies, disreputable looking Barbour and a flat cap. I am still however welcomed into the hunting family because I bring a healthy enthusiasm for everything the hunt does. I always try to be welcoming and have a natter to anyone whether they are on a horse or on their feet. 

I'm sorry that you thought the people you encountered looked a bit miserable. Our lot generally seem to have massive grins and usually thank traffic that has slowed or stopped. 

Please come and give it a go this season.


----------



## combat_claire (28 October 2010)

Baydale said:



			therefore surely a tidily turned-out horse and rider who blended in for the day
		
Click to expand...

Exactement Baydale. 

I love the fact that hunting has such a traditional dress code, but I can't stand an attitude where people think they can look down their noses at newcomers because they might not be in a position to buy all the correct kit in one hit. 

My feeling is that if someone wants to try hunting and can beg, steal or borrow some of the kit then it doesn't really matter if they are wearing long black boots that are designed for another discipline or a black show coat. It is up to seasoned followers to politely explain that it is safer to replace the ready knotted Velcro stock with a self-tie one or that a thick woollen hunt coat will stop them from freezing to death in January. 

I freely admit that all my hunting kit has been bought off Ebay apart from my hat and underwear! It doesn't bother me or anyone else in my hunt that my boots are Mountain Horse ones, with zips at the back; my hunt coat is second hand (at least) or that my stock is so old it has probably been hunting more times than me! 

It saddens me that Judgemental seems to have a unique ability to get backs up on this forum because I have witnessed some genuine acts of kindness when he/she gave away a surplus hunt coat to someone just starting out.


----------



## Simsar (28 October 2010)

CC are they your lucky knickers????


----------



## posie_honey (28 October 2010)

Simsar said:



			No I mean't PH, and SA dummy spurs are a great idea, didn't mean you at all.
		
Click to expand...

actually - i do ridden hunter in a dressage saddle and working hunter in a xc saddle - i can't afford a WH saddle too 

oh = and shock horror - my ariat bromonts - with dressage tops ) - check out my siggy if you want to faint in horror at my hideous attire 

can i just say though - i do wear spurs hunting lol! simply out of habit as i always have done  so i suppose i am a bit of a pot kettle balck too


----------



## combat_claire (28 October 2010)

Simsar said:



			CC are they your lucky knickers????
		
Click to expand...

They certainly are! White shorts with a fox logo!

Purchase yours here: http://www.heycheeky.co.uk


----------



## combat_claire (28 October 2010)

I should also like to add that a further advantage to having common old boots with zips down the back is that if the worst case scenario happened and I broke a leg, you'd be able to get them off me relatively easily. I wouldn't be the person rolling around in agony stuck in a pair of Davies boots and yelling 'don't you cut my effing boots off' at the paramedic.


----------



## Daddy_Long_Legs (28 October 2010)

Cue my grabbing the scalpel from the nurse whilst I tried to cut the back off my OH's Davies boots 2 seasons ago. I tried to cut down the stitching so the boot could be saved but alas it could not be saved. So we were left with one good boot and he rang Davies and because they still had his measurements they made him another boot......and before you ask he is not at all rich just stupid 

I feel that if you come out clean and respectable looking then what's the big deal, I will freely admit that I am a turnout snob for hunting but I would never ever look down my nose at anyone else.

If people want to wear their dressage boots out hunting then let them! Why should they have to fork out for another pair of boots!!!


----------



## pastie2 (28 October 2010)

rosiefronfelen said:



			I have just discovered that ALL of JMs knowledge is word for word on Google!
		
Click to expand...

Ooops JM, too near the truth for comfort? Do you feel cornered? Is that why you have lashed out at rosiefronfelen and printed all her posts. Thought you might be too busy for that nonsence, exercising your hunters, doing stables etc. You seem to be able to spend an inordanant amount of time on this forum pontificating about dress code and not doing a lot of hunting yourself! Please quell these doubts I have about your authenticity and post a photograph of yourself out hunting. A man of you calibre will no doubt have had many a photograph taken. I wait with anticipation.


----------



## bonny (28 October 2010)

Pastie, would you put a photo of yourself on here just because someone wanted you to ?


----------



## pastie2 (28 October 2010)

bonny said:



			Pastie, would you put a photo of yourself on here just because someone wanted you to ?
		
Click to expand...

Yes I would, if I only knew how!


----------



## tootsietoo (28 October 2010)

I don't think JM does his/her horse(s).  On the Apres Hunting thread he/she says that he/she drops them off at the yard then goes home for bath.


----------



## R2R (28 October 2010)

I dont think there is a single person in the country who has been turned away from a hunt for wearing the wrong clothes - I went hunting in tweed, with coloured stock, and boots and gaters (with zips) IN FEBRUARY becasue I got offered the horse (I handnt hunted for 3 years owing to young/mad and then dead horse) so I scrambled what I could together in order to go. 

Secretary still took my cap, as hundreds will through the country when people turn up looking not quite right. 

Total nonsense that you need to "wear the right stuff" - the hunt wants followers, not people to scared to go because they dont have boots with garter straps!! 

I am sure the CHA would have a few things to say to any hunt that looked down upon a supporter of hunting for not wearing spurs or having a wrong coloured tie.


----------



## arizonahoney (28 October 2010)

I don't plan to invest in the full rig for hunting, but that doesn't stop me from being interested in what is correct / what is traditional.

If you're clean and workmanlike in your turnour - not clean and ostentatious - there surely isn't much to object to? 

I just wonder why certain members of the board are flouncing over trifles?


----------



## combat_claire (28 October 2010)

R2R said:



			I dont think there is a single person in the country who has been turned away from a hunt for wearing the wrong clothes - I went hunting in tweed, with coloured stock, and boots and gaters (with zips)
		
Click to expand...

Always worth remembering that you are never incorrectly dressed in ratcatcher (tweeds) at any time of the year.


----------



## R2R (28 October 2010)

combat_claire said:



			Always worth remembering that you are never incorrectly dressed in ratcatcher (tweeds) at any time of the year.
		
Click to expand...

I know, said it more for Judgemental than anyone else


----------



## pastie2 (28 October 2010)

Ratcatcher should always be worn after the Cheltenham Festival. I personally like Ratcatcher at any time of the season.


----------



## EAST KENT (28 October 2010)

R2R said:



			I dont think there is a single person in the country who has been turned away from a hunt for wearing the wrong clothes - I went hunting in tweed, with coloured stock, and boots and gaters (with zips) IN FEBRUARY becasue I got offered the horse (I handnt hunted for 3 years owing to young/mad and then dead horse) so I scrambled what I could together in order to go. 

Secretary still took my cap, as hundreds will through the country when people turn up looking not quite right. 

Total nonsense that you need to "wear the right stuff" - the hunt wants followers, not people to scared to go because they dont have boots with garter straps!! 

I am sure the CHA would have a few things to say to any hunt that looked down upon a supporter of hunting for not wearing spurs or having a wrong coloured tie.
		
Click to expand...

  Ah..now there you are wrong.One instance was a teenager who turned up boasting hunt buttons not actually granted her;the other is now a certain very well known show jumper,as a child his Daddy equiped him with a red hunt coat (aged about twelve!) Now Daddy was also a show jumper and absolute stalwart and one time Master of said Hunt..but non the less our budding show jumper was sent home to change.

Now I leave you to puzzle that one out........


----------



## pastie2 (28 October 2010)

EAST KENT said:



			Ah..now there you are wrong.One instance was a teenager who turned up boasting hunt buttons not actually granted her;the other is now a certain very well known show jumper,as a child his Daddy equiped him with a red hunt coat (aged about twelve!) Now Daddy was also a show jumper and absolute stalwart and one time Master of said Hunt..but non the less our budding show jumper was sent home to change.

Now I leave you to puzzle that one out........

Click to expand...

Drag or Foxhounds? Give us a clue!


----------



## Simsar (28 October 2010)

combat_claire said:



			They certainly are! White shorts with a fox logo!

Purchase yours here: http://www.heycheeky.co.uk

Click to expand...


LMAO!



combat_claire said:



			I should also like to add that a further advantage to having common old boots with zips down the back is that if the worst case scenario happened and I broke a leg, you'd be able to get them off me relatively easily. I wouldn't be the person rolling around in agony stuck in a pair of Davies boots and yelling 'don't you cut my effing boots off' at the paramedic.
		
Click to expand...

LMAO again my sides hurt.


----------



## EAST KENT (28 October 2010)

pastie2 said:



			Drag or Foxhounds? Give us a clue!
		
Click to expand...

now would I be caught dead at a drag-hunt????


----------



## EAST KENT (28 October 2010)

OK the silence is deafening..twelve year old grown up now and show jumping and his missus is also involved in a horse sport......


----------



## Simsar (28 October 2010)

Ricketts Fletcher Smith?


----------



## AML (28 October 2010)

I would be guessing a gentleman connected to the Billy Stud ....

Warm or in the arctic?


----------



## Simsar (28 October 2010)

Oh OK But Will's dad was Huntsman.


----------



## AML (28 October 2010)

I'm just guessing.

Probably totally wrong


----------



## Simsar (28 October 2010)

EK you can't just leave now!


----------



## cptrayes (28 October 2010)

EAST KENT said:



			now would I be caught dead at a drag-hunt???? 

Click to expand...


Quite possibly if you jumped the hedges we jump and got it wrong


----------



## Eagle_day (28 October 2010)

Godammed right on spurs, Claire.  As the 10th Duke said, you only wear spurs if you need them.

Is JM the best thing for hunting since the 10th Duke of Beaufort?


----------



## Starbucks (28 October 2010)

Well, I'm going to keep a look out now but do people still have garter straps on their boots??  at the end of the day, does anyone really care about such fine details?


----------



## pipsqueek (28 October 2010)

as long as you and horse are clean and smart think you are generally excused the finer details! garter straps seem to have disappeared from boots now (anyway what are garters??)


----------



## Starbucks (28 October 2010)

pipsqueek said:



			as long as you and horse are clean and smart think you are generally excused the finer details! garter straps seem to have disappeared from boots now (anyway what are garters??)

Click to expand...

I was just saying to my mum the other day actually, (ladies) boots have changes so much I don't even know where you'd buy a pair of traditional (ish) looking hunting boots now!!  I've got some Cavello ones that I've only just got round to wearing and although fairly normal looking would probably have been classed as dressage boots 10/15 years ago!

I think it's nice to see hunt staff to look really correct but for everyone else I think it comes a lot down to what they can afford?  Luckily I have my lovely 12 yo hunt jacket that is falling to bits a little bit but only on the inside - looked at new ones the other day, they were £360!!! :O


----------



## Horsetan (29 October 2010)

Starbucks said:



			Well, I'm going to keep a look out now but do people still have garter straps on their boots??  ....
		
Click to expand...

Only joined this thread at very late stage but, for what it's worth, when I hunted as a visitor with The Clares in Ireland from 1999 to 2003, I always had garter straps on my (30-quid secondhand Regent Cotswold) boots. Still do, even though I don't currently hunt. They look incomplete without straps.

My Caldene black coat was bought new in 1991, and has been with me ever since. I've worn it for occasional (and hilariously-disastrous) forays into local showjumping classes, where it's not out of place.


----------



## Starbucks (29 October 2010)

Horsetan said:



			Only joined this thread at very late stage but, for what it's worth, when I hunted as a visitor with The Clares in Ireland from 1999 to 2003, I always had garter straps on my (30-quid secondhand Regent Cotswold) boots. Still do, even though I don't currently hunt. They look incomplete without straps.

My Caldene black coat was bought new in 1991, and has been with me ever since. I've worn it for occasional (and hilariously-disastrous) forays into local showjumping classes, where it's not out of place.
		
Click to expand...

See I think I'm a bit opposite of out of date!!  I bought my first pair of long boots maybe 14 years ago, they didn't have straps although my mum bought a pair at a similar time and hers did.  Mine have since fallen to bits (literally) so I'm on my second pair.  Maybe I don't look after them in well enough!!

My coat is caldene, had it about 13/14 years I think and it's hunted hard, still looks good on the outside but all the pockets and lining has come apart!  Oh well... who needs pockets!!


----------



## Judgemental (29 October 2010)

Eagle_day said:



			Godammed right on spurs, Claire.  As the 10th Duke said, you only wear spurs if you need them.

Is JM the best thing for hunting since the 10th Duke of Beaufort?
		
Click to expand...

Eagle Day if one is going to refer to 'Master'. Then let it be in the correct form, i.e. His Grace The Late 10th Duke of Beaufort.

His Grace provided many opinions and one would be interested to know where you could direct one to the authority concerning spurs, either quoting his grace, or more importantly and ideally the wisdom quoted in his own hand?

Of course the presentation of your comment is defective.

Similarly if one presents in the hunting field and is not properly attired and therefore one is defective in one's appearance.

I have witnessed somebody sent home for inappropriate presentation, namely a sheepskin coat! The master, (a man of exacting standards) informed the unfortunate lady in acid terms that she might be mistaken as the quarry for the day. 

Fundamentally, as I have said hitherto, if a laissez faire attitude is going to creep into hunting and dilute it's genre, then the whole essence of the sport will disintegrate.

One might as well say soldiers on parade need not polish their boots. Police officers need not bother with the chain for their whistle, which is still mandatory.  Or the Masons should not bother with their regalia, or the clergy should not bother with their vestments or the judges and barristers should do away with their robes and horsehair wigs. The latter generating considerable income for the suppliers of the raw material.

No, the full kit properly turned out and nothing but the highest standards of correctness and accepted order of things will do. All these whingers about spurs are soft and wet! 

They and their horses need to toughen up to an exceptional hardness.

It is the only way hunting will survive!


----------



## rubysmum (29 October 2010)

i was plannig to go to the New years day meet this year - to show support- BUT as my horse will be using her top end treeless saddle & i will be wearing my black mountainhorse boots & an e-bay tweed - perhaps I should give it a miss
some people here clearly just dont get out enough


----------



## outandabout (29 October 2010)

Judgemental said:



			One might as well say soldiers on parade need not polish their boots. Police officers need not bother with the chain for their whistle, which is still mandatory.  Or the Masons should not bother with their regalia, or the clergy should not bother with their vestments or the judges and barristers should do away with their robes and horsehair wigs. The latter generating considerable income for the suppliers of the raw material.

No, the full kit properly turned out and nothing but the highest standards of correctness and accepted order of things will do. All these whingers about spurs are soft and wet! 

They and their horses need to toughen up to an exceptional hardness.

It is the only way hunting will survive!
		
Click to expand...

I have been following this thread with interest, as I hope to take my horse hunting for the first time next month and was a bit worried that I would not have the proper clothing/tack.  I still am!

However, I must leap in at this point and correct you however on a couple of the above points: it is not mandatory for the police to carry/wear a whistle.  If they were in full dress uniform (ie their tunics), yes, but not day to day (the equivalent of a lawn meet, perhaps?).  My OH is a copper (as well as being a police history buff) on a very rough beat and I think he finds his baton more useful   Also, the standard of dress for barristers and judges is becoming less formal - there are now many occasions when they do not wear their gowns and wigs.  It is really only those at the criminal bar who regularly wear them, and even they take them off when they are dealing with children or vulnerable witnesses.


----------



## Simsar (29 October 2010)

Lets not even talk about hairnets LOL.


----------



## posie_honey (29 October 2010)

Simsar said:



			Lets not even talk about hairnets LOL.
		
Click to expand...

actually - you've hit a nerve there with me  i don't wear a harinet at home but wear one all at all other times - i HATE to see hair flapping about all over the place


----------



## MissySmythe (29 October 2010)

posie_honey said:



			actually - you've hit a nerve there with me  i don't wear a harinet at home but wear one all at all other times - i HATE to see hair flapping about all over the place 

Click to expand...

Quite, PH and Simsar! LOL, am pulling out the soapbox as I write!


----------



## combat_claire (29 October 2010)

Simsar said:



			LMAO!



LMAO again my sides hurt.
		
Click to expand...

I do my best to entertain!


----------



## combat_claire (29 October 2010)

rubysmum said:



			i was plannig to go to the New years day meet this year - to show support- BUT as my horse will be using her top end treeless saddle & i will be wearing my black mountainhorse boots & an e-bay tweed - perhaps I should give it a miss
some people here clearly just dont get out enough

Click to expand...

You will look just fine wearing that rig. Go and have a wonderful time.


----------



## combat_claire (29 October 2010)

fadedv said:



			However, I must leap in at this point and correct you however on a couple of the above points: it is not mandatory for the police to carry/wear a whistle.  If they were in full dress uniform (ie their tunics), yes, but not day to day (the equivalent of a lawn meet, perhaps?).  My OH is a copper (as well as being a police history buff) on a very rough beat and I think he finds his baton more useful   Also, the standard of dress for barristers and judges is becoming less formal - there are now many occasions when they do not wear their gowns and wigs.  It is really only those at the criminal bar who regularly wear them, and even they take them off when they are dealing with children or vulnerable witnesses.
		
Click to expand...

I would also add that from time served with the reserve forces boots were not polished for every parade. If we were due on field exercise you don't shine your boots as it can give away your position to enemy troops!  This rather sums up my argument that you follow a dress code as far as is practical.


----------



## combat_claire (29 October 2010)

Simsar said:



			Lets not even talk about hairnets LOL.
		
Click to expand...

I've had my hair cut to avoid the hassle of mid-length hair being too long not to be in a net, but not long enough to fill the whole net! The things I do for hunting.


----------



## Judgemental (29 October 2010)

Clearly the above two posters have a point and the detail may be, that from time to time, there is a relaxing of protocol in certain circumstances.

However we are dealing with hunting and it is essential that the ambience in it's entirety is maintained.

What is clear, that after twelve years of Labour Rule many elements of society have been brain washed into believing and or thinking that 'lowering the tone' is acceptable, it is part of Labour's second rate parocialism.

Indeed there are those in these matters, who like to make a 'personal statement' by not conforming to the accepted protocols. But as I say they have been brainwashed by twelve years of Labour Rule whose misguided totemistic banning of hunting, results in one simply re-educating and showing the right way things should be done.


----------



## Spudlet (29 October 2010)

JM, 'its' does not take an apostrophe in the possessive form. Please can we have some standards in grammar as well as in appearance!


----------



## posie_honey (29 October 2010)

judgemental - you are lamenting over a past that will not ever be recreated - society moves on - regardless of who's to blame etc. i'm afraid hunting will never again be what it was 20/30 years ago - as lovely as it would be to have it back there its just not going to happen. stamping feet and pulling whiskers about how it 'should be due to tradition' will not help anyone.

We have come to a point where the majority of the british public are anti hunting - and their main argument is generally 'why should toffs ride about killing poor defenceless fluffy animals in suich a crual manner' - an ignorant view yes - but actually probably justifiable due to the generally embarrassing pro-hunt propaganda showing clipped accents stating how "we should be allowed to continue as its our land, our tradition and why should we change it?!" - crikey me - they'd not have won a school debating trophy would they!! arrogance is not an argument - its a way to get anti hunting folks backs up even more 

in this day and age - where society is now - we have to look forward and we have to be more encouraging for people to try hunting and for people to understand it too - we have to use facts and figures that justify hunting as a method of fox control and we have to show that its not about a few landed gentry enjoying hob-knobing about the coubtryside looking down their noses at the rest of the world. if that means relaxed rules and changing attitudes then so be it - surely its better to look forwards in a more inculsive manner than strive towards an ever increasing exclusivity that will alienate further the potential followers and turn more middle-ground folk to anti hunt attitudes?!

*steps off soap box and goes for a cuppa*


----------



## Judgemental (29 October 2010)

Spudlet said:



			JM, 'its' does not take an apostrophe in the possessive form. Please can we have some standards in grammar as well as in appearance!
		
Click to expand...

How remiss!


----------



## Judgemental (29 October 2010)

posie_honey said:



			judgemental - you are lamenting over a past that will not ever be recreated - society moves on - regardless of who's to blame etc. i'm afraid hunting will never again be what it was 20/30 years ago - as lovely as it would be to have it back there its just not going to happen. stamping feet and pulling whiskers about how it 'should be due to tradition' will not help anyone.

We have come to a point where the majority of the british public are anti hunting - and their main argument is generally 'why should toffs ride about killing poor defenceless fluffy animals in suich a crual manner' - an ignorant view yes - but actually probably justifiable due to the generally embarrassing pro-hunt propaganda showing clipped accents stating how "we should be allowed to continue as its our land, our tradition and why should we change it?!" - crikey me - they'd not have won a school debating trophy would they!! arrogance is not an argument - its a way to get anti hunting folks backs up even more 

in this day and age - where society is now - we have to look forward and we have to be more encouraging for people to try hunting and for people to understand it too - we have to use facts and figures that justify hunting as a method of fox control and we have to show that its not about a few landed gentry enjoying hob-knobing about the coubtryside looking down their noses at the rest of the world. if that means relaxed rules and changing attitudes then so be it - surely its better to look forwards in a more inculsive manner than strive towards an ever increasing exclusivity that will alienate further the potential followers and turn more middle-ground folk to anti hunt attitudes?!

*steps off soap box and goes for a cuppa*
		
Click to expand...

I take your points, but why does any of that effect the correct protocol of wearing blunt (snub nosed) spurs as part of one's correct dress when hunting?


----------



## Spudlet (29 October 2010)

Judgemental said:



			How remiss!
		
Click to expand...

Naughty, naughty, naughty


----------



## Horsetan (29 October 2010)

Starbucks said:



			See I think I'm a bit opposite of out of date!!  I bought my first pair of long boots maybe 14 years ago, they didn't have straps although my mum bought a pair at a similar time and hers did.  Mine have since fallen to bits (literally) so I'm on my second pair.  Maybe I don't look after them in well enough!!

My coat is caldene, had it about 13/14 years I think and it's hunted hard, still looks good on the outside but all the pockets and lining has come apart!  Oh well... who needs pockets!!
		
Click to expand...

You've got a Caldene coat as well? They do last, but you hardly see their coats on sale any more, which is a shame.

In the 20+ years that I've enjoyed riding, I've managed on three pairs of traditional long boots, and they are all still with me:

1. Loveson "Classic" - bought in 1990, but changed the garter straps to something a bit more refined. James Taylor & Son, a very old shoemakers/cobblers in Marylebone, modified the heels to make them a bit longer (and therefore more in proportion), as well as doing a superb re-sole and re-heel every two/three years. I would spend hours trying to achieve a military parade-style polish on them! They are still in good condition, but are now in a sealed protective bag in my garden shed.

2. Regent Cotswold  - spotted them in 2000 for sale secondhand in a shoe repair shop in Stevenage Old Town for just £30 (a new pair was nearly £200 at the time). They turned out to be a perfect fit, and came with garter straps. James Taylor & Sons did some minor repairs to one back seam. This is the pair that have done most of the hunting in Ireland, and now need another repair to one of the seams -I just haven't got around to it!

3. Another pair of Regent Cotswold - bought secondhand from eBay for £70. They had originally been considerably taller, but the previous owner had clearly had problems and cut them down a little. They are now the same height as my first pair of "Cotswolds".

I have no complaints - if I buy, I try to make them last a lifetime.


----------



## posie_honey (29 October 2010)

Judgemental said:



			I take your points, but why does any of that effect the correct protocol of wearing blunt (snub nosed) spurs as part of one's correct dress when hunting?
		
Click to expand...

you understand entirely what my point is - you are intelligent enough for that 
i'm a little dissapointed at your response tbh - i expected more of you that that


----------



## combat_claire (29 October 2010)

Judgemental said:



			Clearly the above two posters have a point and the detail may be, that from time to time, there is a relaxing of protocol in certain circumstances.

However we are dealing with hunting and it is essential that the ambience in it's entirety is maintained.

What is clear, that after twelve years of Labour Rule many elements of society have been brain washed into believing and or thinking that 'lowering the tone' is acceptable, it is part of Labour's second rate parocialism.

Indeed there are those in these matters, who like to make a 'personal statement' by not conforming to the accepted protocols. But as I say they have been brainwashed by twelve years of Labour Rule whose misguided totemistic banning of hunting, results in one simply re-educating and showing the right way things should be done.
		
Click to expand...

With respect Judgemental I think you are completely missing the point. 

Firstly hunting dress has always evolved and adapted, there is no reason at all why this shouldn't continue to happen in the 21st Century. The cut and technology of hunt coats has altered over generations, for example our hunt masters now have goretex linings in hunt coats for better comfort on the hunting field. I have a copy of The Chase by Michael Clayton when he devotes a whole chapter to hunting dress and disapproval of approved headgear and synthetic fabric breeches, yet these are now common sights on the hunting field. Practicality and comfort will always come first, hence the wearing of modern waterproofs on wet days autumn hunting on Exmoor. Any fool can be wet and uncomfortable. 

To illustrate this point of modern practicality, I am a uniformed whipper-in for the local minkhounds, traditionally I should wear a loose weave blue skirt, with white shirt, red tie, blue waistcoat, blue hunt coat and a straw boater. However this is no longer the 19th century and for practicality and cost all whippers-in, whether male or female wear moleskin breeks with a blue shirt (easier to keep clean!), a waistcoat rather than a hunt coat 9too hot to run in thick hunt coat in July), red tie, blue cap or straw hat and on hunting days red waterproof gaiters over our stockings. 

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=174466&l=634fd193cc&id=278500003

We won the best turned out award in 2009 so we can't be getting things too wrong!

Hunting is in a great shape despite being subjected to the tyranny of Urban rule and that is because hunts have welcomed new members. If that means welcoming someone who is doing their best to adhere to the dress code either by wearing ratcatcher or a show jacket then so be it. If they then decide to take up the sport then they can justify gradually investing in the right kit. Quite frankly there is little point of rigidly enforcing dress codes to the extent that new members are scared off and we are left with half a dozen correctly dressed stalwarts, who refused to accept that anyone could possibly mount their hunter with a slightly different cut of boot. 

I am not advocating a total removal of dress codes or standards of turn out, to the extent that everyone wears fleeces and garish jodhpurs with half chaps, but a degree of adaptability and flexibility is crucial if hunting is to survive the new challenges it faces.


----------



## EAST KENT (29 October 2010)

Simsar said:



			EK you can't just leave now!
		
Click to expand...

No No I have`nt!  You are right!John Funnell was master and huntsman to the Tickham,which I subscribed to back then.Think I got it a bit wrong,the little lad may only have been seven or so. His proper show jumping stuff started a bit later,his Mum and Dad had by then split,I seem to recall Cyril Light took him on..could be wrong there.
    John Funnell was fun as a huntsman..not much hanging about with him,later on the Tickham changed and a new leaf meant changing the pack,a lot got culled;things did`nt improve because of it and there was a lot of standing about in wet woods as I recall. In fact by near the end of one season we got so bored we loaded up and went for a day with the East Kent...for once our horses were done in by the end of the day.

   That was when Richard Blakeney was still first whip,so it is a while back.


----------



## Judgemental (29 October 2010)

posie_honey said:



			you understand entirely what my point is - you are intelligent enough for that 
i'm a little dissapointed at your response tbh - i expected more of you that that
		
Click to expand...

Because the subject is: Re: Boots, tops, garter straps, spurs, spur staps and you have elected to discuss wider issues, mainly dealing with the totemic views of those who do not have the same kindred spirit as oursleves. All of which is somewhat emotive so far as the 'otherside' are concerned.

Whereas, the issue of wearing spurs on one's hunting boots is a fact and/or correct protocol.


----------



## Judgemental (29 October 2010)

combat_claire said:



			With respect Judgemental I think you are completely missing the point. 

 I have a copy of The Chase by Michael Clayton when he devotes a whole chapter to hunting dress and disapproval of approved headgear and synthetic fabric breeches, yet these are now common sights on the hunting field.
		
Click to expand...

and I believe Michael mentions spurs and boots does he not? 

Perhaps you would care to quote?


----------



## posie_honey (29 October 2010)

Judgemental said:



			the issue of wearing spurs on one's hunting boots is a fact and/or correct protocol.
		
Click to expand...

as lovely as correct attire is - in this day and age due to many factors - it is not as important as it once was - that is the only solid fact i can see here


----------



## outandabout (29 October 2010)

Judgemental said:



			Clearly the above two posters have a point and the detail may be, that from time to time, there is a relaxing of protocol in certain circumstances.

However we are dealing with hunting and it is essential that the ambience in it's entirety is maintained.

What is clear, that after twelve years of Labour Rule many elements of society have been brain washed into believing and or thinking that 'lowering the tone' is acceptable, it is part of Labour's second rate parocialism.

Indeed there are those in these matters, who like to make a 'personal statement' by not conforming to the accepted protocols. But as I say they have been brainwashed by twelve years of Labour Rule whose misguided totemistic banning of hunting, results in one simply re-educating and showing the right way things should be done.
		
Click to expand...

But it's not an occasional relaxing of protocol - it is protocol.  For example, If my OH turned up to work in his full dress tunic and whistle (unless he was off to court or some other similar engagement which requires a tunic) he would be sent home to put on his body armour and his fleece.  He loves the full dress uniform and thinks they are beautifully made and much more stylish, but the dress code has changed on grounds of practicality and safety in the modern age! 

So is your message that I shouldn't bother going hunting because I don't have a hunt coat, only a tweed, wear a 'showjumper' style helmet, don't have boots with garter straps, don't use spurs and my horse has a synthetic saddle?  Maybe if I (and the horse!) enjoy hunting I will acquire correct kit over time - I simply can't afford to go out and invest in a load of clothes and equipment that I may not use.  I am a true hunting newbie and have been really interested in some of your posts and advice, but it is rather galling to be told that I will be essentially 'lowering the tone' if I go out !


----------



## posie_honey (29 October 2010)

fadedv said:



			I am a true hunting newbie and have been really interested in some of your posts and advice, but it is rather galling to be told that I will be essentially 'lowering the tone' if I go out !   

Click to expand...

don't worry - i bet the majority of subscribers of most hunts would be lowering the tone in judgemental's eyes - whats another one to add to the general awfulness of standards eh?  
go forth and enjoy a day  i'm sure noone will a) notice or b) care if you are not 100% correct


----------



## combat_claire (29 October 2010)

Judgemental said:



			and I believe Michael mentions spurs and boots does he not? 

Perhaps you would care to quote?
		
Click to expand...

I'm sure he does, but I'm not at home to get the book off the shelf and check. He also advocates hunting toppers, made to measure hunt coats and Bedford cord breeches, which clearly reflects my point that times have changed and so too have acceptable dress codes. 

As photos of our pack when it was still hunting otter show, I most certainly won't be turning out in a skirt next season as it will make gates impossible and barbed wire fences painful! 

Your attitude is only going to kill the sport you profess to love, because we rely on new blood being tempted to try the sport. In this day and age the first thing people do is look on the internet for hints and tips, quite frankly if they see some of the posts from the likes of yourself on this forum they'd be put off for life. 

I will reiterate once again that I love the correct turnout for hunting,and wouldn't condone wearing fleeces and purple jods but minor pedantic details relating to the cut of boots and wearing of spurs whether needed or not are archaic ideas that should be consigned to the dustbin of history. 

For those newbies reading this thread and quaking with dread at the thought of meeting a hunting stalwart who will look down their noses at them for a minor infringement of what they believe to be correct dress then fear not. The Hunt secretary or master will advise on what to wear so that you can look smart, blend in with the field and not spend thousands of pounds on kit you might never wear again if you hate the activity! 

A case in point is that a group from our hunt went to try polo last summer - we rode onto their hallowed turf in jockey skulls, mismatched polo shirts, breeches, hunting boots and with borrowed polo mallets. There was no need for us to dash out and invest in patey polo helmets, leather knee guards, brown boots and team shirts!


----------



## combat_claire (29 October 2010)

posie_honey said:



			don't worry - i bet the majority of subscribers of most hunts would be lowering the tone in judgemental's eyes - whats another one to add to the general awfulness of standards eh?  
go forth and enjoy a day  i'm sure noone will a) notice or b) care if you are not 100% correct
		
Click to expand...

Huzzah to that!


----------



## posie_honey (29 October 2010)

combat_claire said:



			Huzzah to that!
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Simsar (29 October 2010)

CC stunning. 

EK was thinking of J Funnell as Huntsman of Surrey U. xx


----------



## cptrayes (29 October 2010)

Is it not true that "correct" hunting dress was originally designed to distinguish the landed gentry who were out hunting from their tenant farmers who were also in the field? Cream breeches were certainly designed to show who had a groom to get the horse ready for them and who had a valet to get the breeches clean again. Farmers rode in their working clothes, not being able to afford a set and hand made long boots just for hunting, or have the facilities to care for impractical clothes. Mrs Horace Hayes wrote a couple of hundred years ago that an essential piece of equipment for hunting in England is a good raincoat.

I can hardly believe in this day and age that anyone left alive gives a bug ger whether someone whose horse does not need spurs to encourage it to jump is wearing any!


----------



## posie_honey (29 October 2010)

cptrayes said:



			I can hardly believe in this day and age that anyone left alive gives a bug ger whether someone whose horse does not need spurs to encourage it to jump is wearing any!
		
Click to expand...

oh but apparently there is - they are alive and very much kicking on H&H....


----------



## combat_claire (29 October 2010)

Simsar said:



			CC stunning.
		
Click to expand...

Are you still harping on about my underwear ;-) lol


----------



## Judgemental (29 October 2010)

I give up - the line drawn in the sand is never going to be observed.

Therefore I suggest everybody simply wears boots and little else - especially in the light of the above post!


I am not stupid that's really what folk are after, to do a Lady Godiva if they get half a chance.

That is my last post on this subject.


----------



## Spudlet (29 October 2010)

Judgemental said:



			I give up - the line drawn in the sand is never going to be observed.

Therefore I suggest everybody simply wears boots and little else - especially in the light of the above post!


I am not stupid that's really what folk are after, to do a Lady Godiva if they get half a chance.

That is my last post on this subject.
		
Click to expand...

**Forsees dramatic rise in serious chafing injuries**


----------



## Judgemental (29 October 2010)

Spudlet said:



			**Forsees dramatic rise in serious chafing injuries**
		
Click to expand...

The above was intended to be my last post, however I think Spudlet a Thread entitled Embrocation might now be appropriate. That should lower the tone no end.


----------



## spacefaer (29 October 2010)

Judgemental said:



			I give up - the line drawn in the sand is never going to be observed.

Therefore I suggest everybody simply wears boots and little else - especially in the light of the above post!


I am not stupid that's really what folk are after, to do a Lady Godiva if they get half a chance.

That is my last post on this subject.
		
Click to expand...

Do you promise??


----------



## EAST KENT (29 October 2010)

Simsar said:



			CC stunning. 

EK was thinking of J Funnell as Huntsman of Surrey U. xx
		
Click to expand...

No,No ..long before that he was Master and Huntsman of the Tickham.The family came from Challock and farmed there,long before John branched out.Brother David does horse cremations near Bethersden ,and John is  more midlands area now.
  Promise that`s right ..as I hunted those seasons with the Tickham.


----------



## rosie fronfelen (29 October 2010)

Judgemental said:



			The above was intended to be my last post, however I think Spudlet a Thread entitled Embrocation might now be appropriate. That should lower the tone no end.
		
Click to expand...

Please stick to your original idea!


----------



## Simsar (29 October 2010)

EAST KENT said:



			No,No ..long before that he was Master and Huntsman of the Tickham.The family came from Challock and farmed there,long before John branched out.Brother David does horse cremations near Bethersden ,and John is  more midlands area now.
  Promise that`s right ..as I hunted those seasons with the Tickham.
		
Click to expand...

I know your right but I only remember JF as Huntsman with SU.  Bethersden in kent yes they make Rosking horses there don't they?  My mates sister has a hop farm there too.

John is Claydon now the horse walker company.


----------



## Simsar (29 October 2010)

combat_claire said:



			Are you still harping on about my underwear ;-) lol
		
Click to expand...

No the turnout picture.


----------



## combat_claire (31 October 2010)

Simsar said:



			No the turnout picture. 

Click to expand...

Most of my pack asked if there had been some mistake as the day before to keep our best kit clean we'd been hunting in jeans, checked shirts and old straw hats with couples hanging off belts and hound paw prints everywhere. Honestly it was enough to give the traditionalists like Judgemental a heart attack!


----------



## Simsar (31 October 2010)

Few years ago!  Sht no gloves!  Sorry if photo is huge.


----------



## combat_claire (31 October 2010)

Very nice


----------



## Simsar (31 October 2010)

Thank you CC. x


----------



## Herne (18 November 2010)

Judgemental said:



			His Grace provided many opinions and one would be interested to know where you could direct one to the authority concerning spurs, either quoting his grace, or more importantly and ideally the wisdom quoted in his own hand?
		
Click to expand...

Foxhunting by 10th Duke of Beaufort.

Page 200, para 2:



			On the question of spurs, a lot of people think they are a necessary part of hunting wear, but it all depends on how they are to be used and also on the horse you are riding. So do not let yourself be influenced too much by others, do what you yourself think is right
		
Click to expand...

Page 202, para 8:



			A pair of spurs if you think them necessary. Do not be driven by convention to wear them if you do not feel your horse needs them or, indeed, if you think you would be safer without.
		
Click to expand...

If you want an older authority, try K. W. Horlock ("Scrutator"), wrinting in 1868.

The Science of Foxhunting and kennel Management, Page 186, para 1



			Having ridden for the greater part of our hunting career without spurs, we have come to the conclusion that they are not necessaries, although they may be used as auxiliaries.
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Judgemental (18 November 2010)

Hello Herne, never seen you post hitherto. Nevertheless, your various posts today are like a breath of fresh air on this forum.

Various and sundry have a habit of undue use of the whip when I trot out protocol, procedure and etiquette.


----------



## CuriousGeorge (18 November 2010)

QR - 

I think it is far easier [or should be] for the U18 followers as ratcatcher, beige / cream breeches, and short boots or short boots and gaiters as it leaves far less to go wrong with. Pony club tie is a must if you are a pony club member imho - it gives the field an idea of who to turn to for gates, to pick up dropped whips, hip flasks, and also the secretary's job [imho] is made a lot easier with regards to cap and keeping an eye!

I always hunted in ratcatcher, and after leaving pc wore a conservative checked stock. I will admit to having long boots at 14 - but surgery on my foot meant i needed something a bit more substantial with regards to protection and warmth [short boots offer next to nothing]. I was always available for gates, and any other uses, until I got my 16.3 ex masters horse and the master fully appreciated getting off wasn't really an option!

I was horrified out cubbing [sorry, Autumn Hunting] to see pony clubbers wearing stocks - wrong on so many levels imho. We also had overtaking the master, badgering away loudly to each other along covertside, being blissfully unaware that huntsman was struggling with a gate into a pen to draw, and not saying goodnight at the end of the day. I also had to get a childs pony ready for an opening meet [which would have been classed as a lawn meet too] and was told 'oh don't worry about plaiting' - I plaited said pony.

I have to say I am a bit hot on turnout, but mainly in a clean, respectful way, rather than totally traditional. I hunt in a crash cap because my head is of quite a high value to me, tweed, a conservative stock, beige breeches, and now brown boots [I have been told brown are more correct for ratcatcher than black, but I still have black ones just incase]. My horse is always plaited, and in a plain double bridle, breastplate, and dark numnah. I did my hunting test pre-ban and read the new post-ban test and it seems to lack a lot of the traditional things we learnt. 

I think the hunting test is a bit mixed up really - you cannot hunt on your own until you are 14 without it, the rec age is 11 [I did mine at 10 iir], but children can hunt prior to this, and if their parents aren't advising them of correct turnout, how can we expect new comers or the next generation to be correctly turned out?


----------



## rosie fronfelen (20 November 2010)

EAST KENT said:



			I am sure your Cavallo boots are indeed lovely,but incorrect in the hunting field...plain straight tops please.

Click to expand...

EK,unless one can afford a fortune, the only alternatives are either the boots mentioned or rubber boots- please do not turn into another JM  and understand that new hunting folk do their utmost best to look smart and the part, and proper hunting boots are hundreds of pounds.


----------



## EAST KENT (20 November 2010)

rosiefronfelen said:



			EK,unless one can afford a fortune, the only alternatives are either the boots mentioned or rubber boots- please do not turn into another JM  and understand that new hunting folk do their utmost best to look smart and the part, and proper hunting boots are hundreds of pounds.
		
Click to expand...

 Oh ,look elsewhere Rosie..and I do say just neat and tidy till they`ve caught the bug,then get better gear.Think I would rather see synthetic boots with straight tops than dressage ones myself.Synthetics ARE more practical..if it`s a case of dismounting in muddy lanes etc,and some of the better ones are almost indisguishable anyway these days.

   God forbid anyone is discouraged by a stuffy attitude, I`m all for the Irish way myself! Just cannot abide those strange boots!


----------



## rosie fronfelen (20 November 2010)

Ah, EK, are we still friends!!


----------



## MissySmythe (20 November 2010)

EAST KENT said:



			Oh ,look elsewhere Rosie..and I do say just neat and tidy till they`ve caught the bug,then get better gear.Think I would rather see synthetic boots with straight tops than dressage ones myself.Synthetics ARE more practical..if it`s a case of dismounting in muddy lanes etc,and some of the better ones are almost indisguishable anyway these days.

   God forbid anyone is discouraged by a stuffy attitude, I`m all for the Irish way myself! Just cannot abide those strange boots!
		
Click to expand...

I can't for the life of me see how dressage boots could possibly be comfortable for hunting anyway! Having forgotten my hunting boots at an event and having to do the whole bally thing in my dressage boots totally convinced me of that fact! Maybe the dressage boot wearers don't jump?


----------



## EAST KENT (20 November 2010)

MissySmythe said:



			I can't for the life of me see how dressage boots could possibly be comfortable for hunting anyway! Having forgotten my hunting boots at an event and having to do the whole bally thing in my dressage boots totally convinced me of that fact! Maybe the dressage boot wearers don't jump?
		
Click to expand...

Actually they do remind me a bit of the boots the poor Household Cavalry boys have to wear..but they certainly neither jump,or even try and walk in those . Quite horrid.


----------



## MissySmythe (20 November 2010)

EAST KENT said:



			Actually they do remind me a bit of the boots the poor Household Cavalry boys have to wear..but they certainly neither jump,or even try and walk in those . Quite horrid.
		
Click to expand...

Seeing those boys TRYING to walk.......oh well, they look fab in ceremonial even if they are more like instruments of torture unmounted!


----------



## tootsietoo (21 November 2010)

I don't know what sort of boots you are all thinking about but my boots are very simply riding boots with no garter straps, as there is no need for them to hold my breeches in place due to the invention of velcro!!

I do agree that a pair of rubber boots would be much more useful though.  I fancy a pair from that www.bestboots.co.uk website.  I have trashed my nice leather ones wearing them hunting.

Anyway, I shouldn't really have bumped this thread, as I think the discussion has well and truly run its course after 16 pages!

ETA It sounds as if I work for best boots, I don't, honest, just like the look of them!


----------



## oakash (21 November 2010)

Ah! Missed this thread at the beginning, but feel an overwhelming urge to have the last(?) say.

Irrespective of what has been said, it is correct to refer to a red coat as 'red'. 'Pink' is left to nouveau riches etc who think it is the correct term. It is not.

Gentlemen can wear top-boots with a black coat, but really should wear a top-hat and white breeches with that rig. Normally, a black coat demands plain black 'butcher boots', a white stock-tie and beige breeches and a hunting cap or bowler. Ladies can get away with bending the rules, but only in proportion to how atractive they may look in the saddle. i.e. the more beautiful you are the more your transgressions will be ignored.

BUT...hunting is dynamic, and constantly changing, just as it always has done.

One final comment, hunt staff wear their stock-pins vertically, well-informed subscribers always wear them horizontally.


----------



## Rosie Round The Hills (23 November 2010)

Gosh, what an interesting thread - and so much ire!  I just wanted to pop in and say that I am hunting this season for the first time in my life, having grown up in a non-horsey, non-hunting part of the world. I'm now the grand age of 40.  I started cubbing in the autumn, and we are now hunting-proper.

I have kitted myself out with breeches, shirt, stock, my existing but now polished black long boots with laces on the side, and my navy blue jacket from my side saddle habit.  Also, I've bought a blue silk hat (with under chin strap - I like my head  ).  I don't wear spurs as my horse would not behave if I did.

I plaited for a couple of times and then decided to hog (my plaiting was dreadful, and took too much time).  We are, I think, quite smart.

I have been made so welcome and was encouraged every time we turned out at the cubbing meets (looking pale and nervous a few times, and lacking brakes at others).  All members of the hunt have been nothing other than welcoming and encouraging.  No-one has made any disparaging remarks about my 'incorrect' boots, or my slightly unusually-cut jacket.  Nor were my rubbish plaits laughed at, or any other turn-out misdemeanour I may have committed.

So - to anyone who has been put off from giving hunting a go by reading some remarks on this thread - don't! I'm sure your local hunt will make you most welcome, and if you have any questions, the secretary is the one to ask.


----------



## EAST KENT (24 November 2010)

Hmmm...in today`s Country Man`s Weekly is an article by Nimrod about correct dress out hunting.......now his Missus is apparently an MFH,and HE hunted with the Chid@Lec.......Wondering???? Heavens,I thought HE lived in Darkest Manchester


----------



## RunToEarth (25 November 2010)

This post has entertained me, generally I make sure I'm dressed and don't take too much notice of everyone else, although I do pick up on hairnets and spurs.


----------



## Jenni_ (25 November 2010)

Lonnng thread!

im pretty wary of sticking my novice foot in this obviously boiling water - but here goes!

first of all - what are garter straps?

it is the master plan of my friend to get me out hunting sometime to 'get me riding more forward and to learn to deal with whatever terrain i come across' in a bit to strenghthen my XC.

Iv been nosing this part of the forum for some time and have got the jist of the sport somewhat.... but still watching and learning untill i pluck up the courage to go!


----------



## arizonahoney (25 November 2010)

The strap thingy you see at the top there...


----------



## MissySmythe (25 November 2010)

Jenni_ said:



			Lonnng thread!

im pretty wary of sticking my novice foot in this obviously boiling water - but here goes!

first of all - what are garter straps?

it is the master plan of my friend to get me out hunting sometime to 'get me riding more forward and to learn to deal with whatever terrain i come across' in a bit to strenghthen my XC.

Iv been nosing this part of the forum for some time and have got the jist of the sport somewhat.... but still watching and learning untill i pluck up the courage to go!
		
Click to expand...

Have courage! While it may seem at some times as if we are discussing the intricacies, we're all hunting mad so you're in the right place. Welcome! And hunting WILL stengthen your XC as Lucinda G always says.....


----------



## oakash (25 November 2010)

ArizonaHoney, I was so..o..o.. disappointed to see that the boot was not graced with a female leg! How could you?


----------



## Orangehorse (25 November 2010)

I haven't waded through all the threads, but I hoped it was all slightly tongue-in-cheek.
I never wore spurs when I went hunting, I would have gone into orbit if I had tried spurs on that horse!

On the other hand, nothing annoys me more than people wearing dressage boots in a hunter showing class, but even some of the pictures in Horse and Hound show winning riders in dressage boots.  The old-timers would spin!


----------



## Judgemental (26 November 2010)

When I started this thread as long ago as 10 October, I certainly did not think that the subject would generate much interest, indeed I felt it was a fairly dry subject.

Some very firmly held views have been expressed on just about every combination of acceptable kit that should or should not be worn, has been aired.

Hopefully, bearing in mind the intention was to help those new to hunting, they have gathered useful tips and opinions, also possibly by those not so new to hunting as well.


----------



## Alec Swan (26 November 2010)

Jenni_,

what are garter straps?  Quite obviously,  not what you thought,  or oakash hoped for!!

An interesting thread,  JM.

Alec.


----------



## Simsar (26 November 2010)

LOL JM is that you on page 20??


----------



## Alec Swan (26 November 2010)

Simsar said:



			LOL JM is that you on page 20??
		
Click to expand...

Simsar dear,  we are currently on page 17,  you may have to wait a day or two, for page 20!!

Alec.


----------



## Simsar (27 November 2010)

No H&H!


----------



## shirleyno2 (27 November 2010)

I sent 4 showjumpers out hunting this week, we did leave the white saddle cloths at home, but 3 of the riders wore their normal show jackets etc, they looked super smart, but like smart showjumpers!!
And no garter straps but all wore spurs!


----------



## Alec Swan (27 November 2010)

Simsar said:



			No H&H!
		
Click to expand...

OH!!

Alec.


----------



## EAST KENT (27 November 2010)

Simsar said:



			No H&H!
		
Click to expand...

Yep..I thought that..but I`ll stick with my original theory for now.


----------



## Simsar (27 November 2010)

shirleyno2 said:



			I sent 4 showjumpers out hunting this week, we did leave the white saddle cloths at home, but 3 of the riders wore their normal show jackets etc, they looked super smart, but like smart showjumpers!!
And no garter straps but all wore spurs!
		
Click to expand...

LOL, S who did you go with?  I can see it now like a cotton wool cloud of SJing fluff. xxx


----------



## MissySmythe (27 November 2010)

Simsar said:



			LOL, S who did you go with?  I can see it now like a cotton wool cloud of SJing fluff. xxx
		
Click to expand...

Brrrrrr I hope they wore plenty of thermals under those SJ jackets LOL!


----------



## shirleyno2 (27 November 2010)

Simsar said:



			LOL, S who did you go with?  I can see it now like a cotton wool cloud of SJing fluff. xxx
		
Click to expand...

Hiya, Southdown & Eridge, pics are on our facebook page. 
Yes to the thermals, but we were mighty lucky with weather.
One even wore a stock!


----------



## Judgemental (6 December 2010)

Simsar said:



			LOL JM is that you on page 20??
		
Click to expand...

If you mean 2 Dec - no most definitely not!


----------



## Simsar (7 December 2010)

What about one of the thrusters that have been in the later H&H's.x


----------



## EAST KENT (8 December 2010)

I`m sticking to my theory here!


----------



## Simsar (8 December 2010)

Remind me of the theory EK. x


----------



## EAST KENT (10 December 2010)

Now ,now..not on a public forum!! PD or Rosie know it.


----------



## rosie fronfelen (10 December 2010)

What am i supposed to know,whether JM is a thruster or what? He could be- but perhaps i am on the wrong track, usually am!!


----------



## oswaldwedmore (23 December 2011)

Judgemental said:



			By popular request I have started this thread. It seems there are an increasing number of folk hunting and wanting to hunt, who are coming onto this forum for help and guidance.

The subject of:  boots, tops, garter straps, spurs, spur staps is not really covered in any detail elsewhere, so here's my contribution.

Top Boots, i.e. black boots with brown tops should only be worn with a Pink Coat (it's Pink not Red) or colour of the hunt livery. 

A black coat for gentlemen and blue coat for ladies should be accompanied with black boots and all tops should be removed.

Garter Straps should be white only with top boots and black with black boots.

Spurs generally, should be snub nosed worn with black staps on black boots. 

One is incorrectly dressed not to have spurs with black boots and black or blue coat.
		
Click to expand...

THIS IS WRONG

the coat referred to is not correctly called 'pink' this is a common misconception! the traditional coat is scarlet in colour, people think they're called pink coats because they were mainly made by Thomas Pink, the tailor, hence, 'Pink's' coats


----------



## Bernster (23 December 2011)

What a fabulously entertaining thread - thank you!

And JM, your posts never fail to amuse - and I am hoping that they are occasionally intended to do so 

For what it's worth, I started out making a fairly poor, but well intended, effort at correct attire.  My first outing was in a show jacket and ready tied stock.  The jacket got ditched pretty damn quick as I half froze and I am now a dab hand at stock tying.  As for the rest, I am working on it !

But seriously, I found people very welcoming.  I found my local hunt website very helpful in terms of what to wear and no-one has pulled me up on my attire.  But maybe they are just being polite


----------



## Judgemental (23 December 2011)

BernsterBaubles said:



			What a fabulously entertaining thread - thank you!

And JM, your posts never fail to amuse - and I am hoping that they are occasionally intended to do so 

For what it's worth, I started out making a fairly poor, but well intended, effort at correct attire.  My first outing was in a show jacket and ready tied stock.  The jacket got ditched pretty damn quick as I half froze and I am now a dab hand at stock tying.  As for the rest, I am working on it !

But seriously, I found people very welcoming.  I found my local hunt website very helpful in terms of what to wear and no-one has pulled me up on my attire.  But maybe they are just being polite 

Click to expand...

BernsterBuables, oh yes indeed I hope they are firstly instructive and yes, amuse.

This thread was started on 25 October 2010 and it appears to be rather like a good cheese or wine, the longer it is kept the better it tastes.


----------



## bob (24 December 2011)

I would take issue about the statement that mahogany topped boots can not be worn with a black coat.  This is simply not true, you are confusing a coat with a jacket.  Traditionally, farmers, tradesmen and dealers wore black jackets with 'Butcher' boots, ie without tops,  gentlemen , members of the hunt, and visitors could, and did, wear mahogany topped boots, usually dependant weather.  I hunted very many seasons with the Quorn, preferring a black coat on muddy days to save the task of cleaning my scarlet one. This was general practice, I have many photographs to prove it!


----------



## Hairy Old Cob (24 December 2011)

No Doubt "etiquet" may not be what it once was does it really Matter, in this day and age, I would say Get out to the Hunt and enjoy yourselves, as once you are covered in mud who can see or care.

To my Knowledge David Brown Tractors were painted Hunting Pink before they changed to Orchid White, and Gentlemen out Hunting wore SCARLET Coats not Pink, Farmers wore a Black Coat, younger women wore a Navy Jacket, Older women wore a Black Coat, Children wore a Tweed Jacket, or though as an older Youth the last season I Hunted mounted, I wore a tweed Coat.

I really Get fed up with Pedantic WA***** Just get out there and ENJOY YOURSELVES and who reallt gives a SH** any way except PW`S.

Wishing you all a very Merry Christmas and a Prosperous New Year.


----------



## Judgemental (24 December 2011)

I have to suggest that Oswald has been in something of a time-warp, because this thread actually ceased in December last year, i.e when the 'last post'  was sounded/made. Everything that was said last year has been repeated in the last 24 hours!

I cannot help noticing that Oswald is a foal and only just joined this December and one assumes he/she has not seen the originating date of the thread and the last posting LAST YEAR.


----------



## TwoPair (24 December 2011)

It has been commented on in the past by masters and followers that I am always immaculately turned out. Judgemental you would want to cull us all I should think.

I (at the time) hunted in a tweed jacket, either a stock or pony club tie, and a waistcoat. I wore fawn breeches, and black boots, with a zip up the back and laces in the front of the ankle - an absolute sin with tweed. I wore a crash hat with a black silk, a hairnet with my hair in a bun, and a scrunchie to maintain the shape and tidiness. I wore black or brown gloves. 

I now hunt in a tweed jacket, stock, waistcoat, fawn breeches, brown boots, black gloves and a blue silk. Hair still the same. My brown boots are zip up back with laced front - in fact, they are these - http://www.naylors.com/media/catalo...l_boot_waxed_chocolate_non_insulated_9736.jpg I have the insulated version. I have had two bouts of surgery on one foot and there are seven pins remaining in the foot. Cold feet are really not a pleasant experience. I do not like the restriction of multiple pairs of socks / tights, so insulated boots were the best option. My horse is always always plaited unless for cubbing, obviously. 

I do not feel I hunt enough to warrant wearing navy (something I feel looks better on women than black. My tailcoat for eventing is navy.) despite being 20 next year. You would be horrified probably to hear that one of our lady masters hunts in navy, with a hard hat (flesh coloured harness), and, woe betide her, she wears a body protector underneath her jacket. I think she is a sensible lady in all honesty - my bodyprotector is not suitable for hunting, and I feel more able to hold on in a sticky situation without it, but I think if it makes her feel better, and it sets a good example for our 'young thrusters', then she is well within her right to! In the current time with the ban and what not, I think the hunting community should be pulling together and welcoming newcomers, not making them feel belittled because the 'old school' don't think what they are wearing is correct.

God forbid what you'd have said about my (novice) partners choice of dress on Thursday for his first ever day. However, everyone looked out for him, including the huntsman, secretary and master, and he had a whale of a time, and cannot wait to go again. Surely THAT is what it is about?


----------



## Judgemental (24 December 2011)

TwoPair said:



			It has been commented on in the past by masters and followers that I am always immaculately turned out. Judgemental you would want to cull us all I should think.

I (at the time) hunted in a tweed jacket, either a stock or pony club tie, and a waistcoat. I wore fawn breeches, and black boots, with a zip up the back and laces in the front of the ankle - an absolute sin with tweed. I wore a crash hat with a black silk, a hairnet with my hair in a bun, and a scrunchie to maintain the shape and tidiness. I wore black or brown gloves. 

I now hunt in a tweed jacket, stock, waistcoat, fawn breeches, brown boots, black gloves and a blue silk. Hair still the same. My brown boots are zip up back with laced front - in fact, they are these - http://www.naylors.com/media/catalo...l_boot_waxed_chocolate_non_insulated_9736.jpg I have the insulated version. I have had two bouts of surgery on one foot and there are seven pins remaining in the foot. Cold feet are really not a pleasant experience. I do not like the restriction of multiple pairs of socks / tights, so insulated boots were the best option. My horse is always always plaited unless for cubbing, obviously. 

I do not feel I hunt enough to warrant wearing navy (something I feel looks better on women than black. My tailcoat for eventing is navy.) despite being 20 next year. You would be horrified probably to hear that one of our lady masters hunts in navy, with a hard hat (flesh coloured harness), and, woe betide her, she wears a body protector underneath her jacket. I think she is a sensible lady in all honesty - my bodyprotector is not suitable for hunting, and I feel more able to hold on in a sticky situation without it, but I think if it makes her feel better, and it sets a good example for our 'young thrusters', then she is well within her right to! In the current time with the ban and what not, I think the hunting community should be pulling together and welcoming newcomers, not making them feel belittled because the 'old school' don't think what they are wearing is correct.

God forbid what you'd have said about my (novice) partners choice of dress on Thursday for his first ever day. However, everyone looked out for him, including the huntsman, secretary and master, and he had a whale of a time, and cannot wait to go again. Surely THAT is what it is about?
		
Click to expand...

I quite agree, indeed on 26 November 2010 TWO THOUSAND AND TEN which was more or less my last post on this thread I said:

"When I started this thread as long ago as 10 October 2010, I certainly did not think that the subject would generate much interest, indeed I felt it was a fairly dry subject.

Some very firmly held views have been expressed on just about every combination of acceptable kit that should or should not be worn, has been aired.

Hopefully, bearing in mind the intention was to help those new to hunting, they have gathered useful tips and opinions, also possibly by those not so new to hunting as well".

So why has it been ressurected, to 'Fog' the issue of the Liveries and Christmas Day thread perhaps?


----------



## TwoPair (24 December 2011)

I did not resurrect, just simply posted on a resurrected thread I was not around to post on originally 

Beggin' your pardon, sir *doffs cap*


----------



## little_critter (26 December 2011)

Crikey - I was seriously contemplating taking my mare hunting to perk her up and regain her interest. I've never been hunting and neither has she.
The posts by JM have totally put me off. I'm not going to go if I'm going to be sneered at.
I was going to turn up as neatly turned out as possible in blue tweed, fawn breeches, blue velvet on a skull cap and black chaps (sans spurs). Not 'correct' I know but tidy.
There is no way I'm going to fork out hundreds of pounds on kit I might never use again (for all I know we might both hate it).
As someone said - clubs are usually accommodating to new members; you're not expected to turn up for the first time at football practice already possessing their full team home and away kits so why is it expected of first time hunters?

Oh - and before JM starts the whole 'but you're not a new user of the forum - why only pop up now'. I'm not new to riding, I have started some posts and replied to quite a few, hunting has only crossed my mind recently as my mare appears to be getting bored and I think she needs a fun day out to perk her up.
Might have to think of something else now.......


----------



## Herne (27 December 2011)

Critter, if you want to try hunting, just give the local Hunt Secretary a call and dicuss with him/her what s/he thinks you should wear. It won't be onerous, don't worry.

As for most of the other postings on this thread, you can ignore them. Pretty much the only hard and fast rule about correct hunting dress is that there are no hard and fast rules about hunting dress - other than the pretty much universal guideline that one must be clean and tidy and smart.

Otherwise, the dress codes for hunting change between hunts and between types of hunting and between areas.

Lots of hunts have different traditions about who should wear red coats, who should have the ribbons on their riding cap down, who should wear top boots and all sorts of things. Local traditions take precedence over national trends every time.

And, of course, as has been discussed at length elsewhere on these forums many times, hunting kit has evolved and changed many times over the centuries and will continue to do so. 




_Historical Note: Garter staps are only really appropriate with top boots. The reason being that top boots themselves were invented to simulate the wearing of the even more old-fashioned "Bucket Top" or thigh-length boots. 

In the days of bucket-tops, if you were wealthy, you would have the insides of the boots lined with soft leather, whilst the outsides were made of tougher, hard-wearing leather. When one was not needing the full-length protection of the bucket-top, one would therefore fold the tops down to reveal the softer leather - old-fashioned hunting bling, if you like.

However, the weight of the bucket top would cause the boot to ride down the calf, unless given the extra support at mid-level of a garter strap. 

So, that is the reason that the "tops" were added to top boots (in tan, cream, black or other colours) - to simulate the look of an expensive pair of bucket tops that had been turned down for show. The garter strap was added to complete the "deception".

Normal calf-length boots, on the other hand, don't need them and never did._


----------



## SusannaF (27 December 2011)

A little story for Judge Mental.

I don't know if you have read the classic 1930s hunting book, To Whom the Goddess, but I believe that's where I came across this story.

One of the authors recalled a lady who joined their hunt (and it was one of the grand ones) whose turnout was shocking, and they all looked askance but said nothing.  

Later this woman turned out to be a stalwart supporter in the hunt's time of need, and they were all very glad not to have alienated her merely because of her appearance.

Fashions in dress DO change, as others have pointed out - God knows, HUNTING has changed (otherwise you be out chucking spears at Przewalski horses and painting up the results on your cave wall) - but good grace and good manners are timeless. And not always indicated by dress.


----------



## Vicki1986 (15 January 2012)

I find it interesting that debates on the correct dress for hunting often turn into conversations with several people claiming they now do not wish to go for fear of snobbery, being looked down on etc.

In the show ring , dressage or jumping ring (low level) if I see someone incorrectly dressed I think nothing of it... Why would you fork out much money for a day trip? As long as you try your bed to conform and be smart, good luck to you. However, if I see someone out constantly wrongly dressed, then I think it's not good for the future of the discipline to disregard its heritage.
If more and more people didn't dress correctly, the traditions of the discipline wou,d be lost.  

Why should this be different for hunting?

I have done a few days with several local hunts.  Prior to each meet I have called the sec to check for any dress code I should be aware of.
Therein, I would wear my own jacket, or beg one from a friend - and for the rest of my attire I would try my best.  Yes my boots were not correct, but they were always polished to perfection, and I should expect that without close inspection, not many of the field were any the wiser.

There are always many threads online asking for dress guides for hunts, yet often when it is given in such detail as OP it is blasted as out-dated, and unwelcoming.  If you can't afford to uphold traditional hunting dress (I know I can't) that is ok, (goes without saying you should try your best with what you've got) but I think it is diluting the discipline to suggest that it is not necessary to keep the heritage going.

Sadly I am not currently hunting, however my partner is a farmer who hosts several meets a year.  I find it very interesting whilst I am duly handing round stirrup cups to see what people are wearing.  Although always smart, I would say that most of the field I have seen hunting here are not 100% traditionally dressed, however they are 'correct' so unless you are nit picking most would not notice. 

I also, (typing with some trepidation as I don't think this will come out well...) Think that etiquette and dress, too a degree, separates the people you want to hunt with and those you don't.  I thoroughly enjoy spending the day with like minding people, from different areas and situatons, whom all have the respect to scrub their horse up and put some elbow grease into their tack in order to spend the day crossing land you wouldn't usually have the chance to do.  I can't think of anything worse than having a cavalier person who can't be bothered to at least try to conform.

 No I am not a snob, I just think some things in life deserve a bit of respect and pride.


----------



## Starbucks (15 January 2012)

TBH people I really wouldn't worry!!  A lot of the "posh" looking guys in my hunt seem to wear tweed (I assume post ban), but with a white stock and plaited, which isn't "correct". One of which is Lord something or other and was in Thruster of the week in H&H!  Patent tops for ladies are a new one on me too.

As long as you look clean and smart, it doesn't really matter IMO.


----------



## orangebadger (8 March 2014)

This has all got a bit silly!
Correct dress: there is a pretty set code for the perfect turnout, but it's expensive, to say the least.

The Point: We make an effort with turnout as a gesture of respect to our hosts: the landowners and farmers. A lot of it is practical (warm, dry and safe being the object), but it's by NO MEANS compulsory for a newcomer. My big prestigious west country hunt would welcome with open arms a newcomer if they had made an effort (ie clean and tidy). I would think that after their first season of cobbling it together, they should probably think of investing in the right kit if they were going to carry on.

A good coat (nowadays black for men and blue for ladies) will keep you warm and dry. Despite recent winters, mine has never leaked!
Good boots will protect your legs. I am sure I would have had even more breakages than I have already if I hadnt been wearing strong boots. And yes they are Davies, but they should last me for ever.
Hat: after several awful accidents, one at a neighbouring pack, most are now wearing velvet crash hats.  Again, practical considerations!

Please please don't get the impression that we are unwelcoming and dogmatic. It's the opposite - we love seeing new faces and new blood. One of the best rules of hunting behaviour that I was told is that every hunting day you should talk to 2 people who you have never met. Hopefully that speaks volumes.

As to the pedants: top boots are fine with black coats. (proper) Hunting boots should be worn with garter straps, white for tops, black for plain. Spurs yes, but dummies are fine. It's a hunting tie, not a stock!

If you've never hunted, start by coming autumn hunting. It's much calmer, little jumping, and a very good chance to get to meet your fellow hunters, as there is a lot of standing around!!

Anyway, come and have a go, and you will be VERY welcome. If you make the effort it will be rewarded in spades - there's nothing as exciting as hunting!


----------



## chesnutty (11 March 2014)

What about Bye-days? Is tweed worn then or is it still the black/navy coat?


----------



## orangebadger (11 March 2014)

um, re Bye-days I have no idea - we never seem to have them!! I can't imagine why the rules should be any different though. If in doubt, ring the secretary - they are normally extremely helpful!
Whatever, HAVE FUN!


----------



## palo1 (12 March 2014)

Oh how I wish I was a child again.  In those days, drag pony out of field & groom as good as possible.  Some kind soul would have previously clipped her for me.  Messy, rather fumbled plaits or not depending on time and motivation.  Jods, jodhpur boots, shirt, tie and tweed jacket.  Not a single worry about how we looked and away we went, always having a wonderful time and everyone either lovely and kind or just pleasantly ignoring us.  Now as an adult I have avoided hunting for years - somehow aware of the subtleties of dress and etiquette and living in fear of 'doing something wrong'.  Horse has too crap a mane to plait, my feet don't like hunting boots (don't wear them enough) and tweed, which I love and find very correct and polite, is not posh enough.  Don't want to spend the best part of £1000 on proper well made boots and jacket to enjoy re-living this fantastic childhood pleasure for a few days every year.  Work does not allow for more.   My horse would be frankly astonished, not to mention a little cross if I wore and even mistakenly applied spurs for he is a polite, well schooled and co-operative chap.  I would be personally mortified for not being able to present my lovely, capable horse as required and I really don't need patronising by a load of people who simply have time and care to know and apply arcane rules to something which is supposed, these days, to be for the wider pleasure of the equestrian community.  I am happy to say that my husband who is a hill farmer's son, was welcomed by a local master, provided with a horse and enjoyed a fantastic week day's hunt in nothing better than his working boots, jeans and a working coat.  I shuddered at the prospect but it's nice to think that for some it is possible!!  I have to say, of course, that his horse was impeccably turned out.  (not by him).  For me, turnout is the deal-breaker; I don't think we can do it 'properly' and my immediately local hunt would make it clear that anything less than proper would be a disappointment.  I know that from experience as I had 'the treatment' when my 6 year old daughter gave it a whirl.  After a 4.30 am start with a hairy, elderly but keen pony and a rather basic tweed, jods, boots, tied up hair, gloves and a brilliant smile we still failed to make the grade.  Hunting aint what I remember it to be sadly.


----------



## Herne (16 March 2014)

Welcome to the Forums, Orangebadger.

However... 



orangebadger said:



			This has all got a bit silly!
		
Click to expand...

Then why did you jump in and resurrect a thread that had been dormant for over two years?




			Correct dress: there is a pretty set code for the perfect turnout
		
Click to expand...

When you obviously haven't even bothered to read the whole of the thread before commenting.

Especially, when you then say in your next post:




			um, re Bye-days I have no idea - we never seem to have them!! I can't imagine why the rules should be any different though.
		
Click to expand...

Which demonstrates pretty conclusively that you do not actually consider yourself to be an expert on the subject.

I refer you to my post just 4 above yours - which, in summary points out that there are no hard-and-fast rules. Traditions vary between hunts, between types of hunting and between regions. 

What is right in one hunt can easily be wrong in another - and what is right in a hundred hunts can just as easily be wrong in the 101st.


Not wishing to be unwelcoming on your third post in the forum- one hopes you come here and have fun. 

However, it is only polite to read what others have already contributed to a thread before commenting. Just stating an opinion that is contrary to preceding messages without referring to them doesn't actually add to the conversation.

You are most welcome to tell me why I am talking rubbish if you think I am - but you should then say why...?


----------



## Judgemental (16 March 2014)

Good grief, I started this thread on 25 October 2010 and its still running with 201 replies and 23773 views.

Clearly one or two issues needed airing and Herne you are still in full cry. Clearly a hound with stamina and good confirmation.


----------



## Herne (19 March 2014)

I am almost as stubborn as you are, JM 

Did you not see my reply to you in the UKIP thread, or are you ignoring it?


----------

