# Whispering Willows and Alternative sanctuary



## stormox (21 May 2019)

Could someone explain whats going on here? (See on their FB page) One sanctuary from Wales seems to be collectinf from another sanctuary in Lincs and they are chasing horses around in the pitch dark? Very odd.... I thought the RSPCA  were dealing with it.


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## meleeka (21 May 2019)

Itâ€™s all a bit odd.  The video says a horse died while being chased around.  

 I heard a case recently thatâ€™s miles away from Whispering Willows where they went a collected a pony. The RSPCA were already on the verge of seizing it and prosecuting the owner, so they messed that up. If theyâ€™d have checked with the local rescues they could have advised them not to take it.


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## scats (21 May 2019)

From what I can gather, the owner of the horses from the Lincolnshire based sanctuary signed them over to WW but they had to be moved ASAP so WW were asking for help from the public as there were 44 horses to be moved.  I canâ€™t really work out whatâ€™s going on in the latest video but it would seem a man has turned up to help and heâ€™s chasing the horses around in the dark trying to herd them into a box or something and one dropped dead of a heart attack.


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## Ddraig_wen (21 May 2019)

From what I've seen of WW on facebook they seem um... interesting


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## ester (21 May 2019)

I had a nosey the other day and it raised a lot of red flags to me.


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## Nasicus (21 May 2019)

I'm not sure how to feel about them. They appear very gung-ho and seem to think that the good intent of their actions places them above the law.
I mean, if some randomer claiming to be a rescue turned up and nabbed your well looked after horses, it would be theft. Surely it's the same thing in the case of neglected horses, hence why we have to go through the proper legal channels in order to legally seize them?

I can appreciate the good intentions, nobody wants to see horses being neglected. But the laws are there for a reason.


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## Ddraig_wen (21 May 2019)

They took some horses from scotland and they weren't happy when the owner signed them over to the sspca so the sspca came to collect them. There's a video where she's very offended that she wasn't told there was a box waiting to collect them once the sspca had visited her


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## stormox (21 May 2019)

It rather makes you wonder how responsible they are when you see someone washing a horse whlst wearing flip flops...... and they dont even seem to have a charity number...


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## Cinnamontoast (21 May 2019)

I read on FB that the pony which collapsed in Cardiff and was removed by WW has been stolen? What is going on with that place?


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## ester (21 May 2019)

I expect the original owners helped themselves back to it. I didn't realise there was a 'the truth' page too! That's rarely a good sign, though it appears to be empty


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## Kaylum (21 May 2019)

never heard of them until a couple of weeks ago and they are a private limited company.


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## Ddraig_wen (21 May 2019)

They mentioned on one of their videos they weren't a charity because thy'd be too regulated


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## stormox (21 May 2019)

Ddraig_wen said:



			They mentioned on one of their videos they weren't a charity because thy'd be too regulated
		
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Yet they ask for donations - that in itself seems dodgy


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## meleeka (21 May 2019)

Cinnamontoast said:



			I read on FB that the pony which collapsed in Cardiff and was removed by WW has been stolen? What is going on with that place?
		
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Theyâ€™ve said they believe the pony is safe so my guess is theyâ€™ve arranged for it to be â€œstolenâ€ by another rescue, rather than hand it over to the RSPCA.


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## Cinnamontoast (21 May 2019)

meleeka said:



			Theyâ€™ve said they believe the pony is safe so my guess is theyâ€™ve arranged for it to be â€œstolenâ€ by another rescue, rather than hand it over to the RSPCA.
		
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What madness is this?! I know the RSPCA has a very poor reputation for not rescuing unless the publicity opportunity is there or the animal is dying, but once they do rescue, I believe the care to be good.


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## fabbydo (21 May 2019)

I agree that it's a little unconventional but at least they are doing something, not just talking about it, and I think it's all done with good intentions. It's the law that is not fit for purpose and needs to change.


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## stormox (21 May 2019)

It seems that Whispering Willows have taken these 44 horses from the Boston sanctuary to prevent the RSPCA taking them as far as I understand it. Thats why it was all done in a hurry at night.


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## tankgirl1 (21 May 2019)

I was in their FB group for a while when there was all that hoo ha over the traveller pony in the car park, they came across as pretty dodgy and vigilante tbh


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## Meowy Catkin (21 May 2019)

Cinnamontoast said:



			What madness is this?! I know the RSPCA has a very poor reputation for not rescuing unless the publicity opportunity is there or the animal is dying, but once they do rescue, I believe the care to be good.
		
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Has the Peel case been so quickly forgotten?

WW does sound awful though.


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## Cinnamontoast (21 May 2019)

Faracat said:



			Has the Peel case been so quickly forgotten?

WW does sound awful though.
		
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God, fair point!


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## ester (21 May 2019)

No absolutely not forgotten, and there are also certainly 'not for profits' as opposed to charities that do a good job, but nothing I have seen suggests that is the case here.


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## WeeLassie (22 May 2019)

I think the WW woman seems totally bonkers! Trying to load rather wild and frightened horses into the transport in the pitch black, some bloke trying to lassoo them, a horse dies (or is killed by them), and they then remove the video and dont even comment or apologise! I think that is dreadful behaviour to their followers and certainly not how a rescue should behave, there was no rush, the horses weren't in imminent danger of dying, surely every horseman knows they should be slow and steady and to keep calm with frightened horses and that they are prey animals prone to take flight when scared.


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## meleeka (22 May 2019)

WeeLassie said:



			I think the WW woman seems totally bonkers! Trying to load rather wild and frightened horses into the transport in the pitch black, some bloke trying to lassoo them, a horse dies (or is killed by them), and they then remove the video and dont even comment or apologise! I think that is dreadful behaviour to their followers and certainly not how a rescue should behave, there was no rush, the horses weren't in imminent danger of dying, surely every horseman knows they should be slow and steady and to keep calm with frightened horses and that they are prey animals prone to take flight when scared.
		
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Another post has now been removed where there were comments. Somebody said the man was from the sanctuary in Boston.
This woman reminds me of the AHAR lady, all the ranting by video and drama, then just removing posts rather than explain herself when things donâ€™t seem right. She may be doing wonderful things for horses, who knows?, but her lack of transparency is going to bring her a lot of negative attention.


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## ester (22 May 2019)

I'm trying not to be suspicious of everyone called Sandra....


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## ester (22 May 2019)

though I might have got my names beginning with S confused I think! 

Today they appear to be breeding too.


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## Ddraig_wen (22 May 2019)

She reminds me of the ahar woman too.   She's very vigilante, she put up a video complaining because some areas of horsewatch had said if they see WW anywhere to phone the police


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## rascal (22 May 2019)

ester said:



			though I might have got my names beginning with S confused I think! 

Today they appear to be breeding too.
		
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 Think the mare was in foal when she arrived, they do seem a bit odd though


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## ester (22 May 2019)

Elsewhere she has been confirmed as empty/no stallion on previous property.


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## stormox (22 May 2019)

I think she seems just like Miss Gibbons from AHAR (that was, as it's been de-charitied). Makes herself sound like a crusading saint and loves the sound of her own voice, continually spouting claptrap.


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## HEM (22 May 2019)

Anyone who runs a 'horse sanctuary' with that long/clean blingy nails still in tack makes me suspicious...


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## rascal (22 May 2019)

ester said:



			Elsewhere she has been confirmed as empty/no stallion on previous property.
		
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did not see that, just seen the rants on fb. Loading horses in the dark,who are not used to being handled was really stupid


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## Shani (25 July 2019)

fabbydo said:



			I agree that it's a little unconventional but at least they are doing something, not just talking about it, and I think it's all done with good intentions. It's the law that is not fit for purpose and needs to change.
		
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True when the RSPCA will only respond with we are dealing with it and week later a starving horse will die whisperering willows may rescue horse in a under the radar but at least they do rescue starving emaciated horses and ponies


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## Shani (25 July 2019)

You are all good at slagging off whispering willows and Sandra, and yes she takes horses who are in poor condition starving emaciated but at least she walks the talk not leaving horses for RSPCA to finally get around to seeing, usually too far to late, stop complaining and go and see what they do at Whisperering willows dont make appointment just go and see how well sandra and her team are doing Sandra is passionate about the well being of horse, how many of us would go and take a starving horse from dire situations of life or death, if the official bods did the right thing in time, is be wonderful but sadly not the case ðŸ˜¥


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## Leo Walker (25 July 2019)

Its all well and good taking these starving horses, until they arrive at their new home which is barely better than the place they have been rescued from.


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## fabbydo (25 July 2019)

Leo Walker said:



			Its all well and good taking these starving horses, until they arrive at their new home which is barely better than the place they have been rescued from.
		
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I've not been there but have seen things on Faceache. It's not perfect but to say it's 'barely better' is unfair. They are fed and get veterinary treatment. That's a whole world better than where they came from.


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## Leo Walker (25 July 2019)

fabbydo said:



			I've not been there but have seen things on Faceache. It's not perfect but to say it's 'barely better' is unfair. They are fed and get veterinary treatment. That's a whole world better than where they came from.
		
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Where have you seen things? Its all hidden behind a private group


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## fabbydo (25 July 2019)

It used to be public and when it changed to a closed group I just requested to join and they accepted. Simples! Are you a member too?


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## lula (26 July 2019)

Leo Walker said:



			Where have you seen things? Its all hidden behind a private group
		
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You can request to join private fb groups you know, itâ€™s quite simple. Itâ€™s not all done by secret handshakes and demands for your first born child.


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## Peter7917 (26 July 2019)

Its all sketchy, I don't believe half of the vet care she claims to have had done has been done. I think in time this will all come out and her band of merry followers will get a shock.


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## Leo Walker (26 July 2019)

Its not. Shes claiming that there are no strangles or equine flu yet she hasnt had the horses tested and huge numbers of them had only been there a week or so, so no way could they possibly know. Shes on there bragging that it only takes an hour a day to care for all those foals. What she means is she throws slop in a trough once a day. They dont get looked at. In fact in one video a foal is missing and she doesnt realise until it suddenly reappears. Theres another video where 2 foals are rubbing themselves raw on wire fencing and they are all laughing about them playing. They only got passported and chipped when trading standards got involved. And now these tiny babies are being shipped out to new homes. No doubt for a healthy profit.

Fencing in the mud pit where the foals are dumped







dogs roaming loose in a tiny area filled with parked cars, small sick foals thrown in with horses who are "grumpy". The state the mare is in I would imagine that theres a huge amount of pain behind that grumpiness







Shes getting horse after horse after horse. Refers to them as her babies as if they are her personal pets and is doing all this on rented land with no security. The foals are turned out in someones garden. The lack of basic horse care and knowledge is horrific. Help has been offered from a reputable rescue and the response from the "sanctuary" and supporters is horrific, but its an interesting insight into how their minds work admittedly.







Once you've been around horses and/or rescues for a while you know how this goes. This woman will keep shipping horses in and then out as fast as she can, relying on donations from supporters to fund it all. Eventually she will either over extend herself and an actual rescue will have to go in an clean up the mess, or she will slip up with her sub standard care and an actual rescue will have to go in and clean up them mess. It always ends the same.


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## Leo Walker (26 July 2019)

I'd be expecting a huge influx of WW fans shortly as well as this post has been posted on their page with calls to come and put us right as we shouldnt be criticising WW, we should be out rescuing ourselves apparently.


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## fabbydo (26 July 2019)

LW you claim everything is hidden but then post pictures. Can't be hidden very well then.


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## Nasicus (26 July 2019)

Leo Walker said:



			I'd be expecting a huge influx of WW fans shortly as well as this post has been posted on their page with calls to come and put us right as we shouldnt be criticising WW, we should be out rescuing ourselves apparently.
		
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Ssh Leo, don't you know? We're not allowed to criticise Sandra and WW, they are better than us because they hoard er I mean, rescue...


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## Peter7917 (26 July 2019)

Just been reading all the replies on their page, apparently everyone on here concerned about the animals is a mindless bully.


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## Roasted Chestnuts (26 July 2019)

Has there been any real concern over this rescue? Have they been found guilty of anything?? I mean it is a bit harsh if they havenâ€™t been found to have done anything?


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## exracehorse (26 July 2019)

I follow WW.  I cannot comment as I have not been to the yard in person. It would benefit the rescue to follow up and show where each foal is going and onto their new home. Otherwise, yes ... it could look like hoarding and a money making scheme, to the haters and critics out there.   There have been many many offers from the public.  Now they are chipped and vet checked, they need to be moved on ASAP.  With an independent evaluator to assess each prospective new owner and facilities etc.


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## HEM (26 July 2019)

I have said it before and I'll say it again.

As someone who loves blingy long nails I can't step foot on a yard without breaking a nail/loosing a rhinestone. 

Those nails must be Â£30-Â£40 each time and she must be getting infilled/fixed every couple of days ...ooorr... she doesn't actually do anything... 

Either way I question where the money people donate truly goes

You can tell A LOT from a persons hands!


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## Sueq (26 July 2019)

WeeLassie said:



			I think the WW woman seems totally bonkers! Trying to load rather wild and frightened horses into the transport in the pitch black, some bloke trying to lassoo them, a horse dies (or is killed by them), and they then remove the video and dont even comment or apologise! I think that is dreadful behaviour to their followers and certainly not how a rescue should behave, there was no rush, the horses weren't in imminent danger of dying, surely every horseman knows they should be slow and steady and to keep calm with frightened horses and that they are prey animals prone to take flight when scared.
		
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I am replying to your comment about Sandra . For 1 Sandra is a very passionate woman regarding her horses and any she goes out to rescue. And there's no vigilante ppl that work for her. Please before anyone else comments please look at the good work she has done with Lilly she brought this mare back from near death when she rescued this mare she couldn't even stand but Sandra nursed her back. The reason Sandra or wws don't want to be registered is there is to many restrictions on her were rescuing these poor babies. So she stays the way she is. And ppl like me and thousands of others donate when we can to help out. This lady has had so much hassle of certain ppl on a very nasty site called the truth about wws. They have told her to go kill herself they abuse her they threaten her and do you want to no why well here is 1 instance she would not give certain ppl the ex race horses to make money off them. But please message Sandra and ask her instead of listening to nasty ppl. These same ppl that yesterday in the early hours of the morning when in to Sandra sanctuary and broke the lock and chain on the gate and  let all the foals out. Went onto her yard let the stallions out then let all the mares  with there new born foals out ect ect. These are the same ppl that have the horrible site the truth about wws. Do these sound like animal lovers. They are now going to far stalking Sandra and anyone that speaks out about them. It's got to the point now that the law is involved. So please everyone that are negatively commenting please take a look at Sandra and her sanctuary and if you have any questions please contact her she will answer anything you want to no as she's very transparent sorry for the long comment but it really annoys me what these ppl are doing to this woman and her sanctuary  thankyou


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## Sueq (26 July 2019)

exracehorse said:



			I follow WW.  I cannot comment as I have not been to the yard in person. It would benefit the rescue to follow up and show where each foal is going and onto their new home. Otherwise, yes ... it could look like hoarding and a money making scheme, to the haters and critics out there.   There have been many many offers from the public.  Now they are chipped and vet checked, they need to be moved on ASAP.  With an independent evaluator to assess each prospective new owner and facilities etc.
		
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Which Sandra is doing and I can vouch personally for her as I have been contacted to be one of the evaluators up in the northwest. Just because it's not happening quick enough for some ppl doesn't mean it's not happening. Also if Sandra kept making lives and pictures videos of every horse/pony she had she wouldn't get a thing done so please don't make this site into a hate sandra/wws page like the other site with out getting some facts right please


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## Peter7917 (26 July 2019)

Sueq said:



			I am replying to your comment about Sandra . For 1 Sandra is a very passionate woman regarding her horses and any she goes out to rescue. And there's no vigilante ppl that work for her. Please before anyone else comments please look at the good work she has done with Lilly she brought this mare back from near death when she rescued this mare she couldn't even stand but Sandra nursed her back. The reason Sandra or wws don't want to be registered is there is to many restrictions on her were rescuing these poor babies. So she stays the way she is. And ppl like me and thousands of others donate when we can to help out. This lady has had so much hassle of certain ppl on a very nasty site called the truth about wws. They have told her to go kill herself they abuse her they threaten her and do you want to no why well here is 1 instance she would not give certain ppl the ex race horses to make money off them. But please message Sandra and ask her instead of listening to nasty ppl. These same ppl that yesterday in the early hours of the morning when in to Sandra sanctuary and broke the lock and chain on the gate and  let all the foals out. Went onto her yard let the stallions out then let all the mares  with there new born foals out ect ect. These are the same ppl that have the horrible site the truth about wws. Do these sound like animal lovers. They are now going to far stalking Sandra and anyone that speaks out about them. It's got to the point now that the law is involved. So please everyone that are negatively commenting please take a look at Sandra and her sanctuary and if you have any questions please contact her she will answer anything you want to no as she's very transparent sorry for the long comment but it really annoys me what these ppl are doing to this woman and her sanctuary  thankyou
		
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This message would indicate that you have proof of who has done all of the above? Or is this just speculation that you believe it to be someone from that fb page? could just as easily be someone local who doesn't like her? or kids?


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## Sueq (26 July 2019)

HEM said:



			Anyone who runs a 'horse sanctuary' with that long/clean blingy nails still in tack makes me suspicious...
		
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Why's that ??? Because she's got long nails fgs. There's plenty of girls out there with horses with lovely bling nails faces full of makeup spray tans ect ect no suspicions just bloody hard work. And her daughter paid for them nails as a treat probably because she wanted to cheat her mum up because of all the hate she gets for being a tremendous person for what she's doing. Please just take 5 mins out to visit her site and see all the good work and the passion she has for these horses/ponies/dogs ect any animal that wants help will get it of sandra


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## Sueq (26 July 2019)

Peter7917 said:



			This message would indicate that you have proof of who has done all of the above? Or is this just speculation that you believe it to be someone from that fb page? could just as easily be someone local who doesn't like her? or kids?
		
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Sandra has got proof and video footage of who it is this is why the police has been brought in to investigate it as it's trespass with criminal intent/damage. And she has never had a problem from her neighbours ever be for. Plus she's miles away from were any kids would be especially in them times during the night/morning. Please feel free to contact her yourself she's a very transparent woman


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## Peter7917 (26 July 2019)

Sueq said:



			Sandra has got proof and video footage of who it is this is why the police has been brought in to investigate it as it's trespass with criminal intent/damage. And she has never had a problem from her neighbours ever be for. Plus she's miles away from were any kids would be especially in them times during the night/morning. Please feel free to contact her yourself she's a very transparent woman
		
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Are you in love with her do you think?


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## meleeka (26 July 2019)

Peter7917 said:



			Are you in love with her do you think?
		
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I think itâ€™s called infatuation.


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## exracehorse (26 July 2019)

Sueq said:



			Which Sandra is doing and I can vouch personally for her as I have been contacted to be one of the evaluators up in the northwest. Just because it's not happening quick enough for some ppl doesn't mean it's not happening. Also if Sandra kept making lives and pictures videos of every horse/pony she had she wouldn't get a thing done so please don't make this site into a hate sandra/wws page like the other site with out getting some facts right please
		
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I follow WW.  I have never ever said anything negative about Sandra.  My suggestions about the foals in particular, as these are the ones generating the most negative comments on the other site, is to show the good she has achieved when the little ones go onto their new homes.  I would not expect every rescue to have a follow up. But if some where followed on their progress on the WW site, it would knock the critics and haters and keyboard warriors of their perch


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## Sueq (26 July 2019)

Peter7917 said:



			Are you in love with her do you think?
		
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No dear wrong sex for me.  ARE you one of her haters do you Think???. ÃŒ hate bullies and what I have seen it pure bullying from a certain group of ppl because they either couldn't get there hands on some ex race  horses to make money off or there just hateful ex employees whom Sandra found them out for being what they were also some of these haters are well known for treating there horses abusivly. 
As I said as Sandra she is a very open book and will tell you herself unless you are one of the haters


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## Sueq (26 July 2019)

exracehorse said:



			I follow WW.  I have never ever said anything negative about Sandra.  My suggestions about the foals in particular, as these are the ones generating the most negative comments on the other site, is to show the good she has achieved when the little ones go onto their new homes.  I would not expect every rescue to have a follow up. But if some where followed on their progress on the WW site, it would knock the critics and haters and keyboard warriors of their perch
		
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Sorry if I sounded a bit negative I didn't mean to. I'm just sick and tired of seeing Sandra and her team bullied and dragged through the mud hun. There is no need to abuse some one so horrifyingly and for doing something so good that these bullies wouldn't do because there not making money. As I said I apolijize


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## Sueq (26 July 2019)

meleeka said:



			I think itâ€™s called infatuation.
		
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No dear just think what she's doing is a very special thing and hate bullies. So before you start slagging me for sticking up for someone take a look at the bullies who are infatuated with her


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## ester (26 July 2019)

Oh I love it when we get huns and haters, it's all so grown up.


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## Peter7917 (26 July 2019)

Sueq said:



			No dear wrong sex for me.  ARE you one of her haters do you Think???. ÃŒ hate bullies and what I have seen it pure bullying from a certain group of ppl because they either couldn't get there hands on some ex race  horses to make money off or there just hateful ex employees whom Sandra found them out for being what they were also some of these haters are well known for treating there horses abusivly.
As I said as Sandra she is a very open book and will tell you herself unless you are one of the haters
		
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I live in Southampton and would break a tb. You just sound like you are in love with her, that's all. I mean who knows so much about someone that they know about what children are in their vicinity or their relationship with their neighbours? Seems very bizarre to me.


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## meleeka (26 July 2019)

Sueq said:



			No dear just think what she's doing is a very special thing and hate bullies. So before you start slagging me for sticking up for someone take a look at the bullies who are infatuated with her
		
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Where has anyone slagged you off?


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## AShetlandBitMeOnce (26 July 2019)

ester said:



			Oh I love it when we get huns and haters, it's all so grown up.
		
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Peter7917 said:



			I live in Southampton and would break a tb. You just sound like you are in love with her, that's all. I mean who knows so much about someone that they know about what children are in their vicinity or their relationship with their neighbours? Seems very bizarre to me.
		
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In the interest of fairness Ester, Peter7917's comment is also ridiculously childish (and believe me the word hun makes me twitch too). 

I know what Marty has been up to with her weekend, and how her family are.. as she posts it on the PFK Charity Facebook page and I like to follow something I donate to, and care about - doesn't make me in love with her, just means I am interested in something. It's infuriating when those who are trying to be high and mighty, and just as childish and silly as those they are aiming their words at.

That's not a reflection of my opinion on WW, I don't have one. Just reading things like that drives me insane!


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## cobgoblin (26 July 2019)

Have I opened Facebook by mistake?


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## meleeka (26 July 2019)

AShetlandBitMeOnce said:



			In the interest of fairness Ester, Peter7917's comment is also ridiculously childish (and believe me the word hun makes me twitch too). 

I know what Marty has been up to with her weekend, and how her family are.. as she posts it on the PFK Charity Facebook page and I like to follow something I donate to, and care about - doesn't make me in love with her, just means I am interested in something. It's infuriating when those who are trying to be high and mighty, and just as childish and silly as those they are aiming their words at.

That's not a reflection of my opinion on WW, I don't have one. Just reading things like that drives me insane!
		
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Perhaps you should should have a look at WW.  There is really no comparison to be made between PFK and WW.   Part of the reason WW has many â€˜hatersâ€™ is because of the ranty nature of her live videos I think. Why she just canâ€™t post a paragraph or two I donâ€™t know, but it then stirs up all the followers to get very angry on her behalf. PFK deal with criticism in a grown up way, whereas this seems to just be about mobilising  a mob to shout it down. 

I have no opinion either way on WW as a rescue but the PR makes it all seem a bit odd.


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## Megan V1 (26 July 2019)

I saw a coloured pony on facebook in a stable I recognised saying that this pony had  later been found dead stuck in a fence which I believe, going by the recognised stable to be at WW.  I too am confused by what they are claiming to be.


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## fabbydo (26 July 2019)

Peter7917 said:



			Are you in love with her do you think?
		
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Let's try to keep this a mature discussion rather than post comments like this.


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## Sueq (26 July 2019)

Peter7917 said:



			I live in Southampton and would break a tb. You just sound like you are in love with her, that's all. I mean who knows so much about someone that they know about what children are in their vicinity or their relationship with their neighbours? Seems very bizarre to me.
		
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Well if you took the time out to listen to her lives on fb like many of us do you would no it was her daughter that paid for them to be done. As I said wrong sex for me dear. And as I said j will always have someone's back if I see them getting bullied to the point there telling a person to do everyone a favour and go kill herself. ÃŒ mean what are these ppl on saying something like that to a anyone. When all shes doing is trying to help horses and ponies. So say what you want and in what context you want doesn't faze me but nothing bizarre here dear. Listen to her lives and you will see


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## HEM (26 July 2019)

Sueq said:



			Why's that ??? Because she's got long nails fgs. There's plenty of girls out there with horses with lovely bling nails faces full of makeup spray tans ect ect no suspicions just bloody hard work. And her daughter paid for them nails as a treat probably because she wanted to cheat her mum up because of all the hate she gets for being a tremendous person for what she's doing. Please just take 5 mins out to visit her site and see all the good work and the passion she has for these horses/ponies/dogs ect any animal that wants help will get it of sandra
		
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Don't get me wrong I have no problem with horsey people having long blingy nails, I do! Just that I currently don't own, so don't have chores. When I was owning and on livery I couldn't even keep long nails for a week let alone owning a horse sanctuary. 

Just seems a little bizarre that she begs for donations for these poor dying horses and ponies but her nails always seem to be perfect with an expensive style. Personally I'd prefer my daughter to put the money towards all the dying horses I have in my care then for me to get my nails done and inevitability ruin them within a few days. 

Just my opinion


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## ester (26 July 2019)

What of those people who have listened to the lives, and mostly seen things that concern them? What exactly are you suggesting people will see?


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## Peter7917 (26 July 2019)

Sueq said:



			Well if you took the time out to listen to her lives on fb like many of us do you would no it was her daughter that paid for them to be done. As I said wrong sex for me dear. And as I said j will always have someone's back if I see them getting bullied to the point there telling a person to do everyone a favour and go kill herself. ÃŒ mean what are these ppl on saying something like that to a anyone. When all shes doing is trying to help horses and ponies. So say what you want and in what context you want doesn't faze me but nothing bizarre here dear. Listen to her lives and you will see
		
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I have no interest in her nails or who paid for them. I didn't post that. I hate nails, witchy things.


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## HEM (26 July 2019)

Sueq said:



			And as I said j will always have someone's back if I see them getting bullied to the point there telling a person to do everyone a favour and go kill herself. ÃŒ mean what are these ppl on saying something like that to a anyone. When all shes doing is trying to help horses and ponies.
		
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I don't think anyone here would wish anyone to kill themselves and whoever has said this to Sandra is obviously not a very nice person. We are all concerned for the welfare of these ponies and horses that part we can agree on but we don't necessarily agree the way to do things.


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## meleeka (26 July 2019)

ester said:



			What of those people who have listened to the lives, and mostly seen things that concern them? What exactly are you suggesting people will see?
		
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Iâ€™ve watched a couple of live feeds. As I said she reminds me of the ranty woman from AHAR. I canâ€™t say Iâ€™ve listed to a whole one (they do go on a bit!) and seem to be mainly about slagging off the â€˜hatersâ€™.  I would have thought sheâ€™d be too busy running her rescue to spend so long preaching  to her followers.


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## ester (26 July 2019)

Same. Hence wondering how they are supposed to be in anyway reassuring, or what the 'you will see' meant.


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## stormox (26 July 2019)

Well it seems like whispering willows was in league with  'Tamaras Alternative animal sanctuary' in Boston Lincs as WW took all Tamaras horses. And that now sounds to have been a horrific place. Anyone see the ch5 programme 'the woman with 106 dogs'?  And since that programme was made the place was raided, several dead cats, and a half-cremated dog were found amongst other horrors.
All these people seem like hoarders, I have  had personal experiences of the woman at AHAR, an absolute nutter altogether, and the WW bosses rantings are in a similar vein.


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## Nasicus (26 July 2019)

Sueq said:



			This lady has had so much hassle of certain ppl on a very nasty site called the truth about wws. They have told her to go kill herself they abuse her they threaten her and do you want to no why well here is 1 instance she would not give certain ppl the ex race horses to make money off them. But please message Sandra and ask her instead of listening to nasty ppl. These same ppl that yesterday in the early hours of the morning when in to Sandra sanctuary and broke the lock and chain on the gate and  let all the foals out. Went onto her yard let the stallions out then let all the mares  with there new born foals out ect ect. These are the same ppl that have the horrible site the truth about wws.
		
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That's amusing, as I never see death threats on the Truth about WW page, but see plenty of people on the WW page threatening to injure/kill/maim people and their horses for daring to not sing WW's praises.
Also, did we ever get any proof about the foals/stallions being let out? For someone who loves to use any opportunity to make another facebook live video, she sure hasn't been forthcoming about sharing images/video of the carnage.
Also, if someone let the foals out at night, when noone was on site, who the heck has been doing the night time feeds for the younger foals?


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## Sueq (26 July 2019)

Black Beastie said:



			Has there been any real concern over this rescue? Have they been found guilty of anything?? I mean it is a bit harsh if they havenâ€™t been found to have done anything?
		
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No they have had everyone from RSPCA SSPCA trading standards all different vets and there is no concerns about anything she is doing. It's a handful of nasty arse ppl started a very nasty th page about her because of there grievances with her and then all the trolling and threats letting horses out of there fields. ÃŒ mean one of them no what she's wearing on a day to day basis. But let me say this one of these women on the hate page has done this to another sanctuary in Wales. And one has done it to another sanctuary in Merseyside so there is a pattern forming.
All this lady does is rescues hirses and ponies but because she goes above and behind the law she's slated. We all no if your waiting for the rspca to step in you will have a long wait.
Please just go in to her page and see the good work she and the team do.
I came on here to let ppl no what there reading from the hate group is nasty and there bullies but got accused of all sorts I thought this was a adult page but by the last couple of comments I beg to differ


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## Sueq (26 July 2019)

stormox said:



			Well it seems like whispering willows was in league with  'Tamaras Alternative animal sanctuary' in Boston Lincs as WW took all Tamaras horses. And that now sounds to have been a horrific place. Anyone see the ch5 programme 'the woman with 106 dogs'?  And since that programme was made the place was raided, several dead cats, and a half-cremated dog were found amongst other horrors.
All these people seem like hoarders, I have  had personal experiences of the woman at AHAR, an absolute nutter altogether, and the WW bosses rantings are in a similar vein.
		
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She wasn't in league with Tamara no affiliation what so ever. She got a phone call to go and rescue 44 horses and ponies from this woman. Police and rspca vets ect were all there for that rescue.


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## HEM (26 July 2019)

Sueq said:



*No they have had everyone from RSPCA SSPCA trading standards all different vets and there is no concerns about anything she is doing.* It's a handful of nasty arse ppl started a very nasty th page about her because of there grievances with her and then all the trolling and threats letting horses out of there fields. ÃŒ mean one of them no what she's wearing on a day to day basis. But let me say this one of these women on the hate page has done this to another sanctuary in Wales. And one has done it to another sanctuary in Merseyside so there is a pattern forming.
All this lady does is rescues hirses and ponies but because she goes above and behind the law she's slated. *We all no if your waiting for the rspca to step in you will have a long wait*.
Please just go in to her page and see the good work she and the team do.
I came on here to let ppl no what there reading from the hate group is nasty and there bullies but got accused of all sorts I thought this was a adult page but by the last couple of comments I beg to differ
		
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Haven't you just contradicted yourself a little there?


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## The Fuzzy Furry (26 July 2019)

Sueq said:



			She wasn't in league with Tamara no affiliation what so ever. She got a phone call to go and rescue 44 horses and ponies from this woman. Police and rspca vets ect were all there for that rescue.
		
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The RSPCA were NOT involved whatsoever in that 'rescue',  please try and be more careful in your posts. 
It was a hoarder who wanted to avoid the RSPCA and courts so offloaded quickly.


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## meleeka (26 July 2019)

Sueq said:



			She wasn't in league with Tamara no affiliation what so ever. She got a phone call to go and rescue 44 horses and ponies from this woman. Police and rspca vets ect were all there for that rescue.
		
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So the RSPCA asked her to take them?  I wonder what will happen when sheâ€™s full of all these waifs and strays from all over the country?  This level of â€˜rescueâ€™ canâ€™t  be sustained for long surely?

Perhaps you can clarify what happened to the horse that was â€˜stolenâ€™ from WW a while back?


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## ester (26 July 2019)

Sueq said:



			I came on here to let ppl no what there reading from the hate group is nasty and there bullies but got accused of all sorts I thought this was a adult page but by the last couple of comments I beg to differ
		
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I would be surprised if anyone on here has even been on the 'hate group' I haven't, my opinions were formed only from the very info that WW has provided on live video- in which case maybe this strategy should be looked at if it isn't a correct portrayal.

Especially as so far you haven't been great at answering any the concerns raised here either.


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## stormox (26 July 2019)

[


Sueq said:



			She wasn't in league with Tamara no affiliation what so ever. She got a phone call to go and rescue 44 horses and ponies from this woman. Police and rspca vets ect were all there for that rescue.
		
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It was Tamara who phoned WW to take the horses before the RSPCA got there !! She didnt want the RSPCA to see (and sieze, as some of them were in a fairly bad way with overgrown feet etc) them. If WW were honest they would have let the RSPCA at least look at the horses so Tamara could be prosecuted for neglect. As they removed the horses nothing can be done in that respect now and another case of cruelty goes unpunished.


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## Leo Walker (26 July 2019)

fabbydo said:



			LW you claim everything is hidden but then post pictures. Can't be hidden very well then.
		
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Yeah, thanks for pointing out you can join. I did. It was eye opening to say the least and confirmed everything that i thought and more.


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## Leo Walker (26 July 2019)

Nasicus said:



			That's amusing, as I never see death threats on the Truth about WW page, but see plenty of people on the WW page threatening to injure/kill/maim people and their horses for daring to not sing WW's praises.
Also, did we ever get any proof about the foals/stallions being let out? For someone who loves to use any opportunity to make another facebook live video, she sure hasn't been forthcoming about sharing images/video of the carnage.
Also, if someone let the foals out at night, when noone was on site, who the heck has been doing the night time feeds for the younger foals?
		
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There are some very nasty threats made on the WW page. 

No one is doing night time feeds for the foals. The woman is bragging in one of her lives that it only takes an hour a day to look after them. They make up buckets of swill and throw it in troughs in the field, which is in fact a garden. The foals arent checked, they have no idea which ones are eating, and as I said earlier, didnt even notice one was missing until it came trotting round the corner when the food was nearly gone.

She is so like the woman from AHAR I almost thought it was her for a second.


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## Roasted Chestnuts (26 July 2019)

Sueq said:



			No they have had everyone from RSPCA SSPCA trading standards all different vets and there is no concerns about anything she is doing. It's a handful of nasty arse ppl started a very nasty th page about her because of there grievances with her and then all the trolling and threats letting horses out of there fields. ÃŒ mean one of them no what she's wearing on a day to day basis. But let me say this one of these women on the hate page has done this to another sanctuary in Wales. And one has done it to another sanctuary in Merseyside so there is a pattern forming.
All this lady does is rescues hirses and ponies but because she goes above and behind the law she's slated. We all no if your waiting for the rspca to step in you will have a long wait.
Please just go in to her page and see the good work she and the team do.
I came on here to let ppl no what there reading from the hate group is nasty and there bullies but got accused of all sorts I thought this was a adult page but by the last couple of comments I beg to differ
		
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Iâ€™m not actually sure why you are annoyed at my post? Iâ€™m not sure why this rescue has been brought to light as bad tbf my questions were genuine so get off your High horse as really with all the vehemence you arenâ€™t doing yourself or the cause any favours. 

Genuine people donâ€™t need to defend themselves if they have nothing to defend against


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## obie66 (26 July 2019)

Sueq said:



			No dear wrong sex for me.  ARE you one of her haters do you Think???. ÃŒ hate bullies and what I have seen it pure bullying from a certain group of ppl because they either couldn't get there hands on some ex race  horses to make money off or there just hateful ex employees whom Sandra found them out for being what they were also some of these haters are well known for treating there horses abusivly.
As I said as Sandra she is a very open book and will tell you herself unless you are one of the haters
		
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## obie66 (26 July 2019)

No wonder the horse world has such a bad name some off the comments  on her are perthitic .So someone wheres flip flops washing a horse I forgot to change mine today I must be a bad horse women .Im on the ww site I cant see no wrong on there only healthy happy horses Sandra is a open book .Instead of sitting   behind your keyboards book a holiday to wales go see for yourself .As for the foals being in the garden that must be at least 3acres would love a garden like that for my lot .


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## Peter7917 (26 July 2019)

obie66 said:



			No wonder the horse world has such a bad name some off the comments  on her are perthitic .So someone wheres flip flops washing a horse I forgot to change mine today I must be a bad horse women .Im on the ww site I cant see no wrong on there only healthy happy horses Sandra is a open book .Instead of sitting   behind your keyboards book a holiday to wales go see for yourself .As for the foals being in the garden that must be at least 3acres would love a garden like that for my lot .
		
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Those who are uneducated will be easily led


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## The Fuzzy Furry (26 July 2019)

obie66 said:



			No wonder the horse world has such a bad name some off the comments  on her are perthitic .So someone wheres flip flops washing a horse I forgot to change mine today I must be a bad horse women .Im on the ww site I cant see no wrong on there only healthy happy horses Sandra is a open book .Instead of sitting   behind your keyboards book a holiday to wales go see for yourself .As for the foals being in the garden that must be at least 3acres would love a garden like that for my lot .
		
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Thank you for joining the forum to defend your friend,  hopefully you have the rest of the school holidays to help out there.

That said,  there is no accountability from them, no accounts,  nothing to show that this place is reputable at all. I think that welfare agencies SHOULD take a further interest,  so should HMRC.


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## obie66 (26 July 2019)

The Fuzzy Furry said:



			Thank you for joining the forum to defend your friend,  hopefully you have the rest of the school holidays to help out there.

That said,  there is no accountability from them, no accounts,  nothing to show that this place is reputable at all. I think that welfare agencies SHOULD take a further interest,  so should HMRC.
		
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## obie66 (26 July 2019)

I shall be taking a trip down at the end of the summer unfortunaly I live in cornwall .Ihave a lot off rugs and more stuff to take down to much to post .Was going to take it to local rescue but seeing how much hate Sandra has to put up with decided to give it to her .   The more you hate on them the more people support her thanks for that .


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## ester (26 July 2019)

Trip up then surely?


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## Mrs. Jingle (26 July 2019)

Well I have to say, as someone who has done a huge amount supporting and helping horse rescue's here in Ireland - and rapidly became very disillusioned with motives, honesty and accountability (not all I hasten to add but sadly a fair few 'rescues') - based on my own research elsewhere, not just this thread on H&H) this particular outfit is akin in almost every way to our infamous lady at AHAR here in Ireland- who still happily rakes in funds from all over the world, but in particular delusional UK followers.

Sorry if this offends anyone - well actually no,  I have to be honest not sorry at all, the common denominator with the continued existence and huge money making potential scam of these animal hell holes, is the almost minus IQ level of their devoted followers and defenders!


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## obie66 (26 July 2019)

Peter7917 said:



			Those who are uneducated will be easily led
		
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## Leo Walker (26 July 2019)

The Fuzzy Furry said:



			That said,  there is no accountability from them, no accounts,  nothing to show that this place is reputable at all. I think that welfare agencies SHOULD take a further interest,  so should HMRC.
		
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Trading standards is already involved thankfully. Thats why the foals were chipped.

Obie66 and all the other supporters, where is this hate exactly? You all scream and shout about hate but what you really mean is awkward questions that if answered truthfully would paint WW in a very bad light indeed. Thats not hate.


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## obie66 (26 July 2019)

You realy shouldn't put yourself down like that


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## obie66 (26 July 2019)

ester said:



			Trip up then surely?
		
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## obie66 (26 July 2019)

Sorry still say down not Cornish should have said up must be because im so uneducated


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## Amymay (26 July 2019)

obie66 said:



			I shall be taking a trip down at the end of the summer unfortunaly I live in cornwall .Ihave a lot off rugs and more stuff to take down to much to post .Was going to take it to local rescue but seeing how much hate Sandra has to put up with decided to give it to her .   The more you hate on them the more people support her thanks for that .
		
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If you have local rescues that could benefit then Iâ€™d be inclined to donate your spare items to them, as well perhaps as the cost of travelling _up_ from Cornwall.

I always think that â€˜Hatersâ€™ is such an odd turn of phrase, often used by those who get wrapped up in the drama of certain situations without really being aware of the truth of these situations.

Your support is to be applauded.  But remember, it never hurts to ask questions (or have questions asked), especially of organisations depending on public funding to operate.

â€˜Rescueâ€™ organisations are routinely discussed on the forum, including the RSPCA (for which most of the forum holds no love).  A tremendous amount are found wanting.

The forum also has huge experience of the numerous scammers that have come and gone over the years, almost all increasing the tremendous suffering of the equides they rescued.

So support WW by all means obie66, but also question, observe and learn.


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## The Fuzzy Furry (26 July 2019)

Leo Walker said:



			Trading standards is already involved thankfully. Thats why the foals were chipped.
.
		
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I know, but I would really hope it's on the Welfare lists too, TS will hopefully monitor.


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## ester (26 July 2019)

obie66 I don't know if you have meant to type replies but you are quoting a lot of posts and it is just showing the quote, nothing more.


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## obie66 (26 July 2019)

ester said:



			obie66 I don't know if you have meant to type replies but you are quoting a lot of posts and it is just showing the quote, nothing more.
		
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Sorry not very good on computer .


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## cobgoblin (26 July 2019)

obie66 said:



			Sorry not very good on computer .
		
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Just press reply at the bottom right of the post and the quote will appear for you to write beneath.


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## obie66 (26 July 2019)

cobgoblin said:



			Just press reply at the bottom right of the post and the quote will appear for you to write beneath.
		
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Thankyou


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## jofwigby (27 July 2019)

Sueq said:



			No dear wrong sex for me.  ARE you one of her haters do you Think???. ÃŒ hate bullies and what I have seen it pure bullying from a certain group of ppl because they either couldn't get there hands on some ex race  horses to make money off or there just hateful ex employees whom Sandra found them out for being what they were also some of these haters are well known for treating there horses abusivly.
As I said as Sandra she is a very open book and will tell you herself unless you are one of the haters
		
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Do you know said ex-racehorse people ? I do. You couldnt meet more professional ladies who would do anything to help any welfare situation not just TBs. All this spite on half a story, about people you know nothing about.


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## Peter7917 (27 July 2019)

jofwigby said:



			Do you know said ex-racehorse people ? I do. You couldnt meet more professional ladies who would do anything to help any welfare situation not just TBs. All this spite on half a story, about people you know nothing about.
		
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I am surprised this woman didn't jump at the chance to allow experienced tb owners to rehabilitate these horses. IMO rescue is not just about getting a horse back in good shape, its also about making that horse well trained and amenable, giving him a job where possible so he has worth. We owe it to our animals to make them sellable, a well trained horse will always find a home.


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## cundlegreen (27 July 2019)

Peter7917 said:



			I am surprised this woman didn't jump at the chance to allow experienced tb owners to rehabilitate these horses. IMO rescue is not just about getting a horse back in good shape, its also about making that horse well trained and amenable, giving him a job where possible so he has worth. We owe it to our animals to make them sellable, a well trained horse will always find a home.
		
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Yes, but there are people out there who chuck a horse out in a field, pat themselves on the back, and say they've rescued it. There is FAR more to horse management than that.


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## Tiddlypom (27 July 2019)

Whilst the RSPCA does frequently get a good drubbing on here, if an equine does get taken to one of its rescue facilities and deemed suitable for eventual rehoming it will be rehabbed and cared for very well. This is very resource intensive, hence they can only take in a few at a time. They do seem to have made some very odd decisions on which equines they will take on and which they will PTS, but the care they give to the ones they take in is superb.

There are too many smaller rescues who may start out meaning well but end up overwhelmed, and the animals in their care suffer.


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## HairyH (27 July 2019)

jofwigby said:



			Do you know said ex-racehorse people ? I do. You couldnt meet more professional ladies who would do anything to help any welfare situation not just TBs. All this spite on half a story, about people you know nothing about.
		
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I totally agree with you jofwigby, I know these people too, they run a fantastic small rescue where things are done properly, the tb side of things is done under ROR and they spend far more of their own money than they ever get back.
The comment made about it is a classic example of the "fans" blindly believing everything that comes out of this woman's mouth, whereas the truth is if she's inclined to lie like this and stir up "hate" towards these people who truly spend their lives helping horse welfare, what else can she be lying about?


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## Lexloose (27 July 2019)

The haters are generalized theyâ€™re anyone who asks questions, which is the only reason they formed a group, if you ask you get deleted and blocked. Anyone who is concerned with welfare, the control of infectious diseases, the taking illegally of horses from all over the country with no isolation or biosecurity.  Itâ€™s a private limited company not a not for profit thatâ€™s is surviving on public donations. Any deviation from their ethos you are also a hater of course you are all now haters and so is H & H for printing the Scottish article. Theyâ€™ll probably be telling followers to boycott it now but I doubt theyâ€™re readers anyway.


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## ester (27 July 2019)

It's notable although not suprising that any questions/concerns raised on here remain unanswered. I can never quite understand why people decide to come in all guns blazing to defend someone but without those answers.


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## Velcrobum (27 July 2019)

I am expecting an further explosion of Trolls both for and against


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## Leo Walker (27 July 2019)

Velcrobum said:



			I am expecting an further explosion of Trolls both for and against 

Click to expand...

They apparently cant work out how to post on here. The comments on the thread are either spewing vitriol or hysterically funny in their failed attempts to work the internet.


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## cobgoblin (27 July 2019)

Leo Walker said:



			They apparently cant work out how to post on here. The comments on the thread are either spewing vitriol or hysterically funny in their failed attempts to work the internet.
		
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Should I get the popcorn in?.... Or are they not going to manage it today?


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## ester (27 July 2019)

google does appear to be problematic.


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## Tiddlypom (27 July 2019)

HHO figured fairly highly when I googled â€˜Haters from Horse and Houndâ€™.

It turned up a thread n â€˜New Lounge Archiveâ€™ from 2008 titled â€˜ all cob hatersâ€™ .


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## exracehorse (28 July 2019)

They are currently trying to save some ponies with the most horrendous hooves that have curled up like Aladdin slippers into the leg. Never seen footage like it.  The poor poor ponies


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## honetpot (29 July 2019)

I do not know why people just post simple accounts, if you â€˜makeâ€™ money however itâ€™s made it has to be declared and accounted for and becoming a ltd company is a simple to protect your personal finances. You could say I do horse rescue, I have a field of ponies nobody wants but they are funded by me. If I was asking for donations I would be happy to present accounts. It costs me Â£1k in hay each winter I am never going to make money. Like all horses itâ€™s easier to collect them than keep them


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## Velcrobum (29 July 2019)

FB page seems unavailable via the various links this place has. Wanted to find out a bit more about them/what they are doing, found the owner's FB page but a lot of the content is blocked.


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## MotherOfChickens (29 July 2019)

Velcrobum said:



			FB page seems unavailable via the various links this place has. Wanted to find out a bit more about them/what they are doing, found the owner's FB page but a lot of the content is blocked.
		
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just ask to join-I did for 48 hours, lost the will to follow it after that.


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## exracehorse (30 July 2019)

Iâ€™m on WW and I do follow them.  And I have to say, she was absolutely fantastic yesterday with regards to a cruelty case in Wales.  She had been tipped off about a group of Shetlands with hooves so long they were curled up like Aladdin slippers and into the knees. There were also dead sheep carcasses spread about.  She filmed it.  Called the police. RSPCA. TS. And videoed the owner when he arrived.  The owner has been named and shamed. She camped out at the property and refused to leave until the RSPCA called a vet.


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## The Fuzzy Furry (30 July 2019)

exracehorse said:



			Iâ€™m on WW and I do follow them.  And I have to say, she was absolutely fantastic yesterday with regards to a cruelty case in Wales.  She had been tipped off about a group of Shetlands with hooves so long they were curled up like Aladdin slippers and into the knees. There were also dead sheep carcasses spread about.  She filmed it.  Called the police. RSPCA. TS. And videoed the owner when he arrived.  The owner has been named and shamed.
		
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Thus buggering up a possible prosecution by naming publicly, why do non authorised people take things into their own hands to play policing! ðŸ¤¬ðŸ¤¬


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## The Trooper (30 July 2019)

The Fuzzy Furry said:



			Thus buggering up a possible prosecution by naming publicly, why do non authorised people take things into their own hands to play policing! ðŸ¤¬ðŸ¤¬
		
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Animal cruelty punishments are laughable, public outing is probably far worse than a fine and ban from keeping animals. 

I am neither a supporter or hater, I follow WW on Facebook as I like to know what is going on to be honest.


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## meleeka (30 July 2019)

The Fuzzy Furry said:



			Thus buggering up a possible prosecution by naming publicly, why do non authorised people take things into their own hands to play policing! ðŸ¤¬ðŸ¤¬
		
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Not necessarily so. Given that heâ€™s not signing them over, the RSPCA could still ask the police to seize under the Animal Welfare Act and those ponies wouldnâ€™t currently be suffering in a field. 

Itâ€™s happened numerous tomes where people have been named and shamed on FB and have still been prosecuted (remember Thor? And the one caught on video beating the grey pony?).  I donâ€™t think the prosecution is the main thing here, but stopping  those ponies suffering anymore should be.  

Apparently the RSPCA havenâ€™t taken them, despite their feet probably being beyond repair and them having no access to water. No doubt the owner has promised to get them sorted, but Iâ€™m not sure thatâ€™s even possible. There were also numerous dead sheep laying around which warrants further action. 

Iâ€™m not a supporter usually, but on this occasion I think WW have done the right thing.


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## ester (30 July 2019)

They all looked to have lami, which is a bigger issue (but also the cause of) the feet. So trimming seems pretty unlikely to resolve anything.


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## ycbm (30 July 2019)

The Fuzzy Furry said:



			Thus buggering up a possible prosecution by naming publicly, why do non authorised people take things into their own hands to play policing! ðŸ¤¬ðŸ¤¬
		
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This isn't so. Suspects are often named by the Police,   in the hope that more witnesses or victims of other crimes will come forward.

It doesn't matter who knows his name if he can be proven to have abused animals. 

How many times on here do we read that the RSPCA were called but did nothing. What she did is better than that.

.


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## fabbydo (30 July 2019)

This current case is very interesting. The state of the ponies is horrific yet it took numerous phone calls and 18 hours for the RSPCA to get there. The RSPCA have always had a bad press in equine circles and now I can see why. The ponies are still there and have no access to water. WWS played it 'by the book' this time (calling the RSPCA and the police, arranging sedation and a farrier as well as speaking to the owners) and the ponies are still with the owners that did this to them. Why? We don't know. I don't understand it. In this case, I would have fully supported anyone taking these ponies (with veterinary supervision as they are in so much pain). The law needs to change and the authorities need to be braver when dealing with these situations.  I am very confused as what to do if I ever found ponies like this. Just take them?This case should not be a pro or anti WWS debate, it's just horrific and very sad.


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## meleeka (30 July 2019)

fabbydo said:



			This current case is very interesting. The state of the ponies is horrific yet it took numerous phone calls and 18 hours for the RSPCA to get there. The RSPCA have always had a bad press in equine circles and now I can see why. The ponies are still there and have no access to water. WWS played it 'by the book' this time (calling the RSPCA and the police, arranging sedation and a farrier as well as speaking to the owners) and the ponies are still with the owners that did this to them. Why? We don't know. I don't understand it. In this case, I would have fully supported anyone taking these ponies (with veterinary supervision as they are in so much pain). The law needs to change and the authorities need to be braver when dealing with these situations.  I am very confused as what to do if I ever found ponies like this. Just take them?This case should not be a pro or anti WWS debate, it's just horrific and very sad.
		
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The worst bit is we already have the Animal Welfare Act to deal with this (not to mention passport laws and microchipping laws that are probably being flouted too).  I donâ€™t agree that the law needs changing, It just needs enforcing!


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## HairyH (30 July 2019)

The law definitely needs some work, if nothing else, at least making more severe punishment available and yes then it does need enforcing, also public outing like this does make the chances of successful prosecution less likely, a good defence team would claim procedure wasn't followed and/or there's no chance of a fair trial and all sorts. I'm not a fan of the RSPCA, but I know they won't try to prosecute unless their legal team are fairly sure of success (which does make sense as far as wasting funds goes), in this situation with it being done so publicly and if it would be this man's first offence, it would probably be a none starter. 
Let's hope they do keep a close eye on this situation from now on and hopefully they will get DEFRA involved over the sheep situation as they have much more power and don't mess about (although they won't be interested in the ponies).


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## ester (30 July 2019)

What I don't understand is why they called the RSPCA, that's never a recommendation from a horsey person for a multitude of reasons.


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## meleeka (30 July 2019)

ester said:



			What I don't understand is why they called the RSPCA, that's never a recommendation from a horsey person for a multitude of reasons.
		
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Iâ€™m guessing sheâ€™s seen the criticism aimed at her for going against the law.  If she called WHW sheâ€™d have been waiting days for them to visit and if sheâ€™d just called the police theyâ€™d have phoned the RSPCA anyway.


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## southerncomfort (30 July 2019)

It's all blown up on FB.  The RSPCA put out a statement saying they had visited and are investigating.

They are getting ripped to shreds and rightly so.


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## meleeka (30 July 2019)

southerncomfort said:



			It's all blown up on FB.  The RSPCA put out a statement saying they had visited and are investigating.

They are getting ripped to shreds and rightly so.
		
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Where abouts on FB?

ETA itâ€™s ok I found it ðŸ˜€


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## ester (30 July 2019)

where did you find it


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## meleeka (30 July 2019)

ester said:



			where did you find it 

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On the RSPCA page 


	
	





__ https://www.facebook.com/314425816068529/posts/450452412465868


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## BMWKIPP (30 July 2019)

The Fuzzy Furry said:



			Thus buggering up a possible prosecution by naming publicly, why do non authorised people take things into their own hands to play policing! ðŸ¤¬ðŸ¤¬
		
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The owner named himself! He is the vilest or human specimens, I saw the video and he did himself no favours at all, and named himself more than once


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## ester (30 July 2019)

oh I didn't know they had a H+P one, ta


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## Cuffey (26 August 2019)

To believe or not?
Watch the video
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=531165914090186&id=260986904441423


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## whiteflower (26 August 2019)

Cuffey said:



			To believe or not?
Watch the video
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=531165914090186&id=260986904441423

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Shame it's all about the people not the animals involved


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## ester (26 August 2019)

Seems likely true to me, given the evidence in Sandra's own videos which was already concerning.


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## Dave's Mam (26 August 2019)

Oh it's all coming out in the wash.


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## ester (26 August 2019)

more quickly than I expected too.


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## honetpot (26 August 2019)

Thatâ€™s really sad. 
Is some sort of personality disorder that attracts people to set up â€˜rescuesâ€™ but then for what ever reason lose the plot.
 At one point I had twelve spread over three fields which I did all by my self, I had been doing it for so long that one extra doesnâ€™t matter but none of them had health issues and I had enough money to pay the bills. 
 To run any sort of rehabilitation yard takes a lot of time as well as money, once things start to slid itâ€™s very hard to sort out.


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## ester (26 August 2019)

That or they see the Â£Â£ people are willing to give with the right social media outputs.


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## Kaylum (26 August 2019)

What has happened all I can pick out is the lady is in hospital and a foal has died and people are trying to get the horses water?


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## Velcrobum (26 August 2019)

There is also a goat that children were allowed to ride that is also dead. The rescues are not being cared for and have no water. Donations are not being used to care for the rescued animals.............


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## Dave's Mam (26 August 2019)

Apparently Sandra has a lovely set of new teeth.


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## stormox (26 August 2019)

Brave lady for speaking the truth.  Well done. These fake rescues are all too common, taking peoples money on a false pretence of a 'rescue' and using it for their own benefit.


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## Leo Walker (26 August 2019)

I too thought it would take much longer than this. The place was a shambles even the bits they were showcasing, so god knows what the bits are like that they didnt show. I just hope its all over and done with quickly and any suffering animals are put out of their misery soon. Nothing deserves to end up at a place like this, nothing!


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## Chinchilla (26 August 2019)

honetpot said:



			Thatâ€™s really sad.
Is some sort of personality disorder that attracts people to set up â€˜rescuesâ€™ but then for what ever reason lose the plot./QUOTE]

What the hell....I hope this about personality disorders is some kind of sick, decidedly unamusing 'joke'. Sorry but saying things like that is 1) completely irrelevant; 2) does nothing to help the animals; and 3) stigmatising and horrible for people with PDs who look after their animals just fine.
Again. Apologies for going off topic.
My view on the whole sorry mess though is that all rescues should stop acting like exclusive white knight clubs saving the day, and pull together for the good of the animals....ðŸ˜”
		
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## Chinchilla (26 August 2019)

honetpot said:



			Thatâ€™s really sad.
Is some sort of personality disorder that attracts people to set up â€˜rescuesâ€™ but then for what ever reason lose the plot.
		
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What the hell....I hope this about personality disorders is some kind of sick, decidedly unamusing 'joke'. Sorry but saying things like that is 1) completely irrelevant; 2) does nothing to help the animals; and 3) stigmatising and horrible for people with PDs who look after their animals just fine.
Again. Apologies for going off topic.
My view on the whole sorry mess though is that all rescues should stop acting like exclusive white knight clubs saving the day, and pull together for the good of the animals....


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## Tiddlypom (26 August 2019)

Chinchilla, youâ€™re overreacting, Iâ€™m sure that hp wasnâ€™t making any sick joke about anything.


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## Chinchilla (26 August 2019)

Tiddlypom said:



			Chinchilla, youâ€™re overreacting, Iâ€™m sure that hp wasnâ€™t making any sick joke about anything.
		
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Yeah maybe but it shouldn't have been said anyway. Not following WW Saga really so can't comment further but thought that particular remark was unnecessary and hurtful.


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## exracehorse (26 August 2019)

Dave's Mam said:



			Apparently Sandra has a lovely set of new teeth.
		
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Iâ€™m not sure if they are false teeth or very expensive veneers


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## honetpot (26 August 2019)

ester said:



			more quickly than I expected too.
		
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Chinchilla said:



			What the hell....I hope this about personality disorders is some kind of sick, decidedly unamusing 'joke'. Sorry but saying things like that is 1) completely irrelevant; 2) does nothing to help the animals; and 3) stigmatising and horrible for people with PDs who look after their animals just fine.
Again. Apologies for going off topic.
My view on the whole sorry mess though is that all rescues should stop acting like exclusive white knight clubs saving the day, and pull together for the good of the animals....
		
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I am always interested in why people do things, so no itâ€™s not a sick joke, because by understanding why perhaps you can stop it in the future. 
 Charity law in the case of small animal charities is not fit for purpose as the scutany  of the accounts is basic. Anyone who has ever bought or been given a horse knows thatâ€™s the easy bit, the hard bit is finding the money to keep it, itâ€™s rent, fodder and basic vet fees and farriers x what ever number you have. So perhaps small animal charities should have to prove they have the money to cover those expenses for at least six months.
 The not for profit company is the other way of getting around things, where company directors can pay themselves wages. If you look at Hillside animal charity accounts they are interesting.
I support several small charities  , I like to support ones that I can actually go visit so I know how the money is being spent and that they pay their bills. One I know of would never pay farmers for hay, and I would say she has a personality disorder as she â€˜savedâ€™ farm animal but her sheds we so full of s***, that the sheep housed in there heads touched the ceiling, which at least shows a lack of insight as farmers have inspections from EHO and would be fined if They allowed that to happen.They often seem to think that their way is the only way of â€˜savingâ€™ them and when people question how money is spent they turn on them and accuse them of being haters.
 I have withdrawn my support from one charity because of this, the abuse wasnâ€™t aimed at me but the questions asked seemed reasonable, the response was not.
 I do not know how to stop this happening, the charities commission can not even keep a close eye on the bigger ones and there are plenty of cases of fraud with large sums of money being misappropriated. 
 You talk of â€˜exclusive white knights clubsâ€™ an perhaps thatâ€™s how you judge any sort of any sort of welfare organisation, is it open to scrutiny, and will tell why and how money is spent. But when you see the appeals itâ€™s hard to be so dispassionate.


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## Chinchilla (26 August 2019)

honetpot said:



			I am always interested in why people do things, so no itâ€™s not a sick joke, because by understanding why perhaps you can stop it in the future.
Charity law in the case of small animal charities is not fit for purpose as the scutany  of the accounts is basic. Anyone who has ever bought or been given a horse knows thatâ€™s the easy bit, the hard bit is finding the money to keep it, itâ€™s rent, fodder and basic vet fees and farriers x what ever number you have. So perhaps small animal charities should have to prove they have the money to cover those expenses for at least six months.
The not for profit company is the other way of getting around things, where company directors can pay themselves wages. If you look at Hillside animal charity accounts they are interesting.
I support several small charities  , I like to support ones that I can actually go visit so I know how the money is being spent and that they pay their bills. One I know of would never pay farmers for hay, and I would say she has a personality disorder as she â€˜savedâ€™ farm animal but her sheds we so full of s***, that the sheep housed in there heads touched the ceiling, which at least shows a lack of insight as farmers have inspections from EHO and would be fined if They allowed that to happen.They often seem to think that their way is the only way of â€˜savingâ€™ them and when people question how money is spent they turn on them and accuse them of being haters.
I have withdrawn my support from one charity because of this, the abuse wasnâ€™t aimed at me but the questions asked seemed reasonable, the response was not.
I do not know how to stop this happening, the charities commission can not even keep a close eye on the bigger ones and there are plenty of cases of fraud with large sums of money being misappropriated.
You talk of â€˜exclusive white knights clubsâ€™ an perhaps thatâ€™s how you judge any sort of any sort of welfare organisation, is it open to scrutiny, and will tell why and how money is spent. But when you see the appeals itâ€™s hard to be so dispassionate.
		
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Reading this I basically agree with you except for the personality disorder bit ðŸ˜‚
The problem is anyone can say they 'rescue' but even charities commission can't get involved unless they're registered charities which a lot of small 'rescues' aren't , this doesn't (or rather shouldn't!) mean they can't act scrupulously in regards to publishing where donations and animals go. It's hard not to be taken in by appeals etc though as you say.... After reading this thread I looked up the 'alternative sanctuary' mentioned and came close to downtown to disbelieving this thread but stopped short at a page saying there was some (a fair number) of species they wouldn't ever entertain rehoming as many people couldn't provide a suitable environment so those species all stayed at the 'sanctuary'. That's what I mean by saying "exclusive white Knights club" - that attitude that they are the only people who can ever care for the animals 'properly', which is hoarding obviously. And rang serious alarm bells.
Not sure all welfare organisations are like this of any size but the simple fact is, it's problematic that anyone can call themselves a 'rescue' and appear to be able to take animals off their legal owners. Particularly when they're potentially taking them to a worse situation ie a hoarding situation.

But I have no idea what the solution to this problem of the lack of regulation is; government licensing, maybe, but then there would undoubtedly be calls for gov involvement/licensing in breeding in the first place which probably wouldn't be feasible. Particularly as even existing animal welfare laws are painfully vague and badly/or at least inconsistently reinforced.


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## Cinnamontoast (26 August 2019)

Re personality disorder: Iâ€™m a sucker for watching programmes such as Animal Rescue USA and Hoarders. The staff regularly rescue dozens of animals from â€˜rescuersâ€™ or hoarders. These people often appear to be suffering from some sort of disorder and the houses are sometimes demolished. I donâ€™t know if hoarding is classed as a disorder, but Iâ€™m guessing it is, given the living conditions. 

We see horses being rescued from appalling conditions far too often, people being prosecuted etc, you only have to consider the latest news report about such occurrences to believe that those â€˜rescuersâ€™ arenâ€™t thinking straight and have issues at play.


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## Cinnamontoast (27 August 2019)

Re the South Wales ponies, a lorry load were transported to a sanctuary in Herts a couple of days ago, coloured cobs etc. From WW? Iâ€™m not seeing anything on the RSPCA page, has it all been removed? Is WW being exposed as a massive fake?


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## Amymay (27 August 2019)

And if what this woman is saying is true, are the RSPCA involved?


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## meleeka (27 August 2019)

Interesting that one of her followers said something along the lines of â€œTheir care might not be perfect but they are better off than where they came fromâ€. Are standards so low that thatâ€™s acceptable?  Being in a situation just better than total neglect and hunger is hardly a good advert for a rescue.


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## Leo Walker (27 August 2019)

meleeka said:



			Interesting that one of her followers said something along the lines of â€œTheir care might not be perfect but they are better off than where they came fromâ€. Are standards so low that thatâ€™s acceptable?  Being in a situation just better than total neglect and hunger is hardly a good advert for a rescue.
		
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meleeka said:



			Interesting that one of her followers said something along the lines of â€œTheir care might not be perfect but they are better off than where they came fromâ€. Are standards so low that thatâ€™s acceptable?  Being in a situation just better than total neglect and hunger is hardly a good advert for a rescue.
		
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They have no water some of the time but thats ok. Its better than where they were. They are now selling those coloured cob foals for Â£250 each. When you times that by the number of them thats a tidy sum made for chucking some slop in a trough once a day!


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## Sandstone1 (27 August 2019)

Where did all those foals come from in the first place?   There were loads of them and too young to be away from mum by the looks of them.


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## meleeka (27 August 2019)

Iâ€™ve just seen the live post from last night. The best comment was â€œIâ€™ve followed you and stuck up for you in the past, but you go to hospital with a chest injection and come back with new teeth! Wtf!â€ ðŸ˜‚


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## HEM (27 August 2019)

They have mentioned the dead foal as if it is a common occurrence! They have had those foals for a good couple of weeks if not months now, surely they would be out of the woods by now and any sudden death should be a complete shock!

The admin that has commented about it on FB also seems to now be back tracking. She's an admin of the group and seemed to know everything but now is saying "whenever I have been at willows the horses have been in good condition"

It's all a bit bizarre but we all called it from the beginning!


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## ester (27 August 2019)

HP this isn't even a not for profit though, it is just a Ltd company.


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## ester (27 August 2019)

Sandstone1 said:



			Where did all those foals come from in the first place?   There were loads of them and too young to be away from mum by the looks of them.
		
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they were nurse mare foals.


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## Sandstone1 (27 August 2019)

ester said:



			they were nurse mare foals.
		
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Thank you.  I've not heard of that before. What does it mean please?


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## ester (27 August 2019)

mare has foal, mare gets leased to (usually) a thoroughbred operation that needs a foster mare, the mare's original foal is hand reared. 
I did think that over here most Â£Â£ breeding operations kept their own nurse mares and often they will use a fairly nice stallion so the offspring are actually quite nice and worth something anyway. These seem to just be cob foals though. 

Though actually these might actually just have been dumped, with 'Tom Price' being a name bandied about, I'm not sure they were terribly open about the full circumstances.


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## meleeka (27 August 2019)

ester said:



			they were nurse mare foals.
		
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So if thatâ€™s the case these foals will be at least a yearly occurrence?   Sheâ€™s done the breeder a favour by taking them so thatâ€™s not really helping to stop the industry at all. The breeder will no doubt have a other 40 by next year. There are plenty of sickly coloured colt foals available to anyone who wants one so Iâ€™m not sure itâ€™s in anyoneâ€™s best interest to keep saving these and turning them out for Â£250.


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## ester (27 August 2019)

I think it might not be the case now, I know it was discussed around the time but frankly there is so much rubbish on the page and I can't watch the videos, they creep me out! 
Said Tom Price (hampshire) has a ban on keeping horses and apparently doesn't keep the colts.


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## Peter7917 (27 August 2019)

I have not seen the video yet as am at work but am not surprised and am pleased people are finally seeing her for what she is.


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## honetpot (27 August 2019)

The foals look too small to be nurse foals, the mares tend to be over 14.2 and to be fair most of them are now covered by decent stallions or the studs teaser TB as there is a market now for these foals. I have one and he is by a registered ID stallion, they are no longer cheap.
There seems to be areas where colt foals are dumped in groups, they are usually looking at their tails from about 2 months to 3+ months, so they are obviously dumping them when they are still cute  and it cheaper than paying the  knacker man.
I have a pony I got through a rescue organisation, it was an a colt with no passport and I paid nothing. 

If people are being charged for  the animal they should be clear what they are being charged for. When I got the vet out to passport, do a health check etc a basic passport, chipping, tetanus, health check and advice cost me Â£200, so if it has had all of that Â£200 is a fair amount. I doubt if they have had that spent on them. The coat take ages to come out when they have been malnourished, mine didnâ€™t loose his till June so he did look a bit of a mess, but he had been feral and he was not keen on being close to people.
There are enough people buying these foals already which is just makes a market for them and they will breed more. Bangs head against wall.


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## Ddraig_wen (27 August 2019)

There's a post of the truth group where she was supposed to have been seen collecting / buying a group of 9 or so from a yard


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## Sandstone1 (27 August 2019)

I didn't know nurse foals was a thing.  Thank you for explaining.  Although I would have thought that they were indeed nurse  foals they would look better bred?
I don't know the ins and outs of this so called sanctuary but find i t a bit strange that someone looking after so many horses can keep nails like that of afford them!


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## honetpot (28 August 2019)

Hope this link works 
https://bromsgrovestandard.co.uk/ne...es-after-horses-found-without-food-and-water/
If you read this a women who rehomed horses for the RSPCA, didnâ€™t feed them and turned the water off. 
 The RSPCA inspector was upset with the abuse he received but says himself he was sympathetic at first.
 How the hell does this happen, again.


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## Velcrobum (29 August 2019)

This


honetpot said:









Hope this link works
https://bromsgrovestandard.co.uk/ne...es-after-horses-found-without-food-and-water/
If you read this a women who rehomed horses for the RSPCA, didnâ€™t feed them and turned the water off.
The RSPCA inspector was upset with the abuse he received but says himself he was sympathetic at first.
How the hell does this happen, again.
		
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This was the subject of a long thread on here last year
https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/threads/thor-the-rescue-horse.765021/


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## stormox (30 August 2019)

It seems that dodgy Irish "rescue" AHAR have spoken in support of WW now


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## ester (30 August 2019)

two peas in a pod


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## rascal (31 August 2019)

Saw a post on the truth about WW on facebook, where someone was saying they feed sugar beet and fast fibre but do not soak it, poor horses.I hope it is not true. 
As for the idiot at AHAR speaking in support of them,well really not much of recommendation given the awful things that one has done.


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## popcorn1 (31 August 2019)

rascal said:



			Saw a post on the truth about WW on facebook, where someone was saying they feed sugar beet and fast fibre but do not soak it, poor horses.I hope it is not true.
As for the idiot at AHAR speaking in support of them,well really not much of recommendation given the awful things that one has done.
		
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as incompetent as they appear to be, surely everything would be dead if they were doing this


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## rascal (31 August 2019)

popcorn1 said:



			as incompetent as they appear to be, surely everything would be dead if they were doing this
		
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That was my thinking, but do not know the woman or her helpers or how much horse knowledge they have. Would like to go and see, but not sure if they are open to the public.
The person also said the ponies were struggling to eat the food.


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## Kaylum (31 August 2019)

Their bio security is shocking and they need to get a quarantine policy in place or the ringworm will never be controlled.  

Hopefully they have a future plan and have reserves. Also you have to make the place safe for the public and have the correct insurance. Personally I think the place has got too big too fast. Just needs to slow down look  at the improvements and to be honest with the correct equine management it probably could succeed. Perhaps get some advice from some people who have succeeded with doing this.


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## dree (8 September 2019)

meleeka said:



			Theyâ€™ve said they believe the pony is safe so my guess is theyâ€™ve arranged for it to be â€œstolenâ€ by another rescue, rather than hand it over to the RSPCA.
		
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## dree (8 September 2019)

They've "arranged" for it to be stolen???  You do realise that this is a public forum and that is slander?


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## dree (8 September 2019)

HEM said:



			Anyone who runs a 'horse sanctuary' with that long/clean blingy nails still in tack makes me suspicious...
		
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If that's all you have to be suspicious about, then all is well.


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## dree (8 September 2019)

Kaylum said:



			Their bio security is shocking and they need to get a quarantine policy in place or the ringworm will never be controlled. 

Hopefully they have a future plan and have reserves. Also you have to make the place safe for the public and have the correct insurance. Personally I think the place has got too big too fast. Just needs to slow down look  at the improvements and to be honest with the correct equine management it probably could succeed. Perhaps get some advice from some people who have succeeded with doing this.
		
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## dree (8 September 2019)

They do have insurance, they have taken on umpteen foals that were literally thrown away, and have brought them all on.  What other rescue would do that, or could do that?  They are now looking for homes for these foals, which would certainly have died, as they were only about a week old when they took them all.  I've followed them for a while, and they dare to go where no-one else will.  Yet everyone slags them off.


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## dree (8 September 2019)

rascal said:



			That was my thinking, but do not know the woman or her helpers or how much horse knowledge they have. Would like to go and see, but not sure if they are open to the public.
The person also said the ponies were struggling to eat the food.
		
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## Leo Walker (8 September 2019)

dree said:



			They do have insurance, they have taken on umpteen foals that were literally thrown away, and have brought them all on.  What other rescue would do that, or could do that?  They are now looking for homes for these foals, which would certainly have died, as they were only about a week old when they took them all.  I've followed them for a while, and they dare to go where no-one else will.  Yet everyone slags them off.
		
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And now they are flogging them ungelded for Â£200 a pop, down from Â£250 as there was no interest.


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## dree (8 September 2019)

Who said the ponies were struggling to eat?  That's rubbish!!  Go on to their site and have a look for yourself.  And, yes, they are open to the public.  But with people going on to their land and letting horses loose, you would need to contact them first.


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## dree (8 September 2019)

Leo Walker said:



			And now they are flogging them ungelded for Â£200 a pop, down from Â£250 as there was no interest.
		
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What???  Where did you get that from??  You do realise that someone has stolen pics of the foals and has set up a false profile and is trying to scam people out of money?  NO WAY are these foals being sold to anyone!!!  Stop repeating things that are NOT true.


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## dree (8 September 2019)

ester said:



			though I might have got my names beginning with S confused I think! 

Today they appear to be breeding too.
		
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Breeding?  Where do you get this rubbish from??


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## dree (8 September 2019)

Nasicus said:



			I'm not sure how to feel about them. They appear very gung-ho and seem to think that the good intent of their actions places them above the law.
I mean, if some randomer claiming to be a rescue turned up and nabbed your well looked after horses, it would be theft. Surely it's the same thing in the case of neglected horses, hence why we have to go through the proper legal channels in order to legally seize them?

I can appreciate the good intentions, nobody wants to see horses being neglected. But the laws are there for a reason.
		
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The laws are an ass.  They're not working.  RSPCA "watching" horses......yep, watching them die.


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## ycbm (8 September 2019)

It's always nice to welcome a new joiner to the forum, dree.   You've clearly joined in order to defend this 'Rescue Centre', could you give us some information as to your connection to it so that we can judge how independent your view is?
.


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## stormox (8 September 2019)

I think Dree is the same family as Chocolate Moonbeam.


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## Peter7917 (8 September 2019)

dree said:



			They've "arranged" for it to be stolen???  You do realise that this is a public forum and that is slander?
		
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Someone doesn't understand slander....


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## dree (8 September 2019)

stormox said:



			I think Dree is the same family as Chocolate Moonbeam.
		
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No idea what you're talking about.


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## meleeka (8 September 2019)

Peter7917 said:



			Someone doesn't understand slander....
		
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Especially as the comment which hasnâ€™t all been quoted started with  â€œMy guess is....

I think whatâ€™s really obvious with WWS (and. AHAR before them) is that they attract a certain type of supporter, some of which we are seeing on this thread. ðŸ¤”


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## dree (8 September 2019)

Peter7917 said:



			Someone doesn't understand slander....[/QUOTE
		
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## dree (8 September 2019)

Lies, whatever.  You know what I mean.


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## Leo Walker (8 September 2019)

Or how to use the quote function, and they simply cannot put all the information in one post, something else all the ferverent WW supporters seem to have in common. 

And no I'm not referring to todays ad, this has been going on for ages. All the foals have homes and the homes have been home checked soon went to the foals dont have homes, please pay us and you can take away a sickly looking, very young colt and do with it what you see fit.


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## Leo Walker (8 September 2019)

dree said:



			Lies, whatever.  You know what I mean.
		
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no one has the faintest idea what you are going on about, so no I dont know what you mean. But please, please, please call me a hater. You know you want to!


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## dree (8 September 2019)

ycbm said:



			It's always nice to welcome a new joiner to the forum, dree.   You've clearly joined in order to defend this 'Rescue Centre', could you give us some information as to your connection to it so that we can judge how independent your view is?
.
		
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No connection.  I've watched them since they got involved with Gary.....the abused gypsy pony.  I've seen horses fill out.  I've seen foals rescued and brought on....just days old.  You guys do that sort of thing?  Yes, Sandra is bolshie, but she gets things done.....for the horses.....and that's what I care about.


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## dree (8 September 2019)

Leo Walker said:



			Or how to use the quote function, and they simply cannot put all the information in one post, something else all the ferverent WW supporters seem to have in common.

And no I'm not referring to todays ad, this has been going on for ages. All the foals have homes and the homes have been home checked soon went to the foals dont have homes, please pay us and you can take away a sickly looking, very young colt and do with it what you see fit.
		
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## dree (8 September 2019)

dree said:



			No connection.  I've watched them since they got involved with Gary.....the abused gypsy pony.  I've seen horses fill out.  I've seen foals rescued and brought on....just days old.  You guys do that sort of thing?  Yes, Sandra is bolshie, but she gets things done.....for the horses.....and that's what I care about.
		
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## meleeka (8 September 2019)

dree said:



			No connection.  I've watched them since they got involved with Gary.....the abused gypsy pony.  I've seen horses fill out.  I've seen foals rescued and brought on....just days old.  You guys do that sort of thing?  Yes, Sandra is bolshie, but she gets things done.....for the horses.....and that's what I care about.
		
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Presumably youâ€™ve visited and â€œseenâ€ all this?

P.s. When you quote you can then  click underneath the quote in the same box  and type your reply ðŸ˜€


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## dree (8 September 2019)

dree said:



			No connection.  I've watched them since they got involved with Gary.....the abused gypsy pony.  I've seen horses fill out.  I've seen foals rescued and brought on....just days old.  You guys do that sort of thing?  Yes, Sandra is bolshie, but she gets things done.....for the horses.....and that's what I care about.
		
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## dree (8 September 2019)

It's a long time since I've been on a forum, so I apologise if it makes life so very difficult for you.  Unfortunately, I haven't been, but I know I would be welcome.....as are you.  I'm in a wheelchair at the mo, so life is just a tad difficult.  (And that is not for sympathy....just fact.)


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## Peter7917 (8 September 2019)

dree said:



			No connection.  I've watched them since they got involved with Gary.....the abused gypsy pony.  I've seen horses fill out.  I've seen foals rescued and brought on....just days old.  You guys do that sort of thing?  Yes, Sandra is bolshie, but she gets things done.....for the horses.....and that's what I care about.
		
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Foals brought on? I've seen no evidence of this at all. 

A rescue would be passporting, microchipping, gelding, halter breaking and doing some basic handling; picking up feet, teaching to be tied up etc. Along with this I would expect a rescue to be worming and possibly even vaccinating. 

I would expect home checks, a rehoming fee which is justified by all of the above. 

These foals have been chucked in a field and had little else done with them. I've seen no evidence to prove otherwise.


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## meleeka (8 September 2019)

dree said:



			It's a long time since I've been on a forum, so I apologise if it makes life so very difficult for you.  Unfortunately, I haven't been, but I know I would be welcome.....as are you.  I'm in a wheelchair at the mo, so life is just a tad difficult.  (And that is not for sympathy....just fact.)
		
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I follow a couple of sanctuaries on FB. They posts updates when thereâ€™s something to tell and none of them do â€˜livesâ€™ which are generally about the haters and how horrible they are. They donâ€™t delete people for asking perfectly reasonable questions and they only take in what they can afford to properly care for or rehabilitate. 

Perhaps as you are such a fan you could answer my question which is where did the foals actually come from?


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## dree (8 September 2019)

Leo Walker said:



			Or how to use the quote function, and they simply cannot put all the information in one post, something else all the ferverent WW supporters seem to have in common.

And no I'm not referring to todays ad, this has been going on for ages. All the foals have homes and the homes have been home checked soon went to the foals dont have homes, please pay us and you can take away a sickly looking, very young colt and do with it what you see fit.
		
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They are NOT sickly.....have you seen vids of them?


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## dree (8 September 2019)

meleeka said:



			I follow a couple of sanctuaries on FB. They posts updates when thereâ€™s something to tell and none of them do â€˜livesâ€™ which are generally about the haters and how horrible they are. They donâ€™t delete people for asking perfectly reasonable questions and they only take in what they can afford to properly care for or rehabilitate.

Perhaps as you are such a fan you could answer my question which is where did the foals actually come from?
		
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Join the group and ask them yourself.  I'm not your lacky.


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## Peter7917 (8 September 2019)

dree said:



			Join the group and ask them yourself.  I'm not your lacky.
		
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You would Ä£et blocked for asking that.


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## honetpot (8 September 2019)

dree said:



			No connection.  I've watched them since they got involved with Gary.....the abused gypsy pony.  I've seen horses fill out.  I've seen foals rescued and brought on....just days old.  You guys do that sort of thing?  Yes, Sandra is bolshie, but she gets things done.....for the horses.....and that's what I care about.
		
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 Yep, I have done that sort of thing and there are other groups that do this. The things that Peter7927 listed should be things that should be done.
 Itâ€™s not just about turning them out together and giving them some food, and letting them â€˜fill outâ€™. They often are full of worms and a round tummy can mean that they need a rigorous worming program.
 In stead of having a go at us, who are trying to make sense of what appears to be a not very well run group from what we see on the internet, why donâ€™t you go and have a look for yourself. As it is you are no more informed than us.


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## Amymay (8 September 2019)

dree said:



			Join the group and ask them yourself.  I'm not your lacky.
		
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You may be surprised at how many members on here do follow them.

Weâ€™re always open for discussion on the pros and cons of â€˜rescuesâ€™ on here. Sadly, as mentioned earlier in the thread, so many are found to be wanting, and missing their remit by a mile.

If you have a valid point to make, and can lend weight to the veracity of WW then it would be fantastic if you could make it in as clear and evidence based manner as possible. Because, currently, you make no sense.


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## ester (8 September 2019)

Well that was a tricky follow


dree said:



			They are NOT sickly.....have you seen vids of them?
		
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Seen vids, some of them look dreadful.

Fwiw the breeding comment was from something SKS herself said, but it was so bloody long ago as you are very late to this thread I've rather forgotten and given the number of lives wouldn't have a hope in hell of finding it again.


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## rascal (10 September 2019)

I did follow them on facebook for a few months, but got fed up of the constant lives about the haters, and nothing about the horses.
Reminds me very much of that very AHAR.


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## ester (10 September 2019)

just a quick pop in and out for dree then I guess.


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## Leo Walker (10 September 2019)

They never stay long. Too many difficult questions asked and no ability to block people to shut them up.


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## Amymay (10 September 2019)

ester said:



			just a quick pop in and out for dree then I guess.
		
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Looks like it.

I always think itâ€™s a bit of a shame when new posters join just to shout and stamp their feet about how little we know, and then never post again.

If they really want to educate us why not stay and give us the hindsight of their wisdom. (Oh, and try to form a coherent argument, and sentence ðŸ˜).


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## meleeka (10 September 2019)

amymay said:



			Looks like it.

I always think itâ€™s a bit of a shame when new posters join just to shout and stamp their feet about how little we know, and then never post again.

If they really want to educate us why not stay and give us the hindsight of their wisdom. (Oh, and try to form a coherent argument, and sentence ðŸ˜).
		
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Because they really know no more about the subject than the rest of us. They just watch the ridiculous live videos and jump on the bandwagon ðŸ™„. Itâ€™s just people whoâ€™ve found an outlet for their mob mentality.


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## dree (10 September 2019)

honetpot said:



			Yep, I have done that sort of thing and there are other groups that do this. The things that Peter7927 listed should be things that should be done.
Itâ€™s not just about turning them out together and giving them some food, and letting them â€˜fill outâ€™. They often are full of worms and a round tummy can mean that they need a rigorous worming program.
In stead of having a go at us, who are trying to make sense of what appears to be a not very well run group from what we see on the internet, why donâ€™t you go and have a look for yourself. As it is you are no more informed than us.
		
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If you watch the lives, you would know that the foals were wormed......they don't have a round tummy as in "full of worms"......why don't you go look for yourself?


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## dree (10 September 2019)

amymay said:



			Looks like it.

I always think itâ€™s a bit of a shame when new posters join just to shout and stamp their feet about how little we know, and then never post again.

If they really want to educate us why not stay and give us the hindsight of their wisdom. (Oh, and try to form a coherent argument, and sentence ðŸ˜).
		
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I had to go upstairs for a shower.  When you're in a wheelchair (as I've already said) these things take time and planning......you can't just jump in the shower.  From what I can see from you lot, you don't want answers, you want an argument.


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## dree (10 September 2019)

ester said:



			just a quick pop in and out for dree then I guess.
		
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With the type of nastiness on here, I can understand why people just pop in and then go.  I was taken aback by the rudeness shown here.  I don't need it.  Life is hard enough without even more negativity from here.


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## dree (10 September 2019)

meleeka said:



			Because they really know no more about the subject than the rest of us. They just watch the ridiculous live videos and jump on the bandwagon ðŸ™„. Itâ€™s just people whoâ€™ve found an outlet for their mob mentality.
		
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You see.....you want people to give you sensible replies, but then say they have a mob mentality.  Not very welcoming, is it?  Nor does it encourage a decent conversation with any of you.


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## meleeka (10 September 2019)

dree said:



			You see.....you want people to give you sensible replies, but then say they have a mob mentality.  Not very welcoming, is it?  Nor does it encourage a decent conversation with any of you.
		
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Youâ€™ve joined a forum and been fairly rude yourself, refused to give any answers when asked (because you probably donâ€™t know the answers) and then complained that you arenâ€™t welcomed? I will remind you of your reply to my perfectly reasonable question about where the foals came from, which was â€œJoin the group and ask them yourself. I'm not your Lackyâ€. You donâ€™t think that sounds a tad rude?


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## exracehorse (10 September 2019)

Iâ€™m still fascinated by the new teeth.


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## dree (10 September 2019)

meleeka said:



			Youâ€™ve joined a forum and been fairly rude yourself, refused to give any answers when asked (because you probably donâ€™t know the answers) and then complained that you arenâ€™t welcomed? I will remind you of your reply to my perfectly reasonable question about where the foals came from, which was â€œJoin the group and ask them yourself. I'm not your Lackyâ€. You donâ€™t think that sounds a tad rude?
		
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People tend to reply in kind.  Have a look at the subtle (or not so subtle) rudeness on this thread.


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## Amymay (10 September 2019)

dree said:



			People tend to reply in kind.  Have a look at the subtle (or not so subtle) rudeness on this thread.
		
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There is nothing in any of your responses (both rude and petulant) that gives us any new insights in to the goings on at WW.  

When you have something constructive to add, weâ€™d love to hear it ðŸ˜‰


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## ester (10 September 2019)

Welcome back, shame you didnâ€™t opt to reply to my post where I said I had watched the lives and agree that some of the foals looked terrible and the feeding method very questionable.


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## Amymay (10 September 2019)

I think she must be back in the shower....


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## {97702} (10 September 2019)

amymay said:



			I think she must be back in the shower....
		
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No she is busy trolling in AAD instead... a change is as good as a rest apparently.... ðŸ™„


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## dree (10 September 2019)

meleeka said:



			Presumably youâ€™ve visited and â€œseenâ€ all this?

P.s. When you quote you can then  click underneath the quote in the same box  and type your reply ðŸ˜€
		
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Well, it would be nice if you all gave a newbie the time to answer questions being thrown at them left, right and centre.  And it doesn't make you look good when you say:-
"Or how to use the quote function, and they simply cannot put all the information in one post, something else all the ferverent WW supporters seem to have in common."   I am not "they" and a little leeway would be nice.  But then, you lot are not nice at all, are you?  And no, I won't call you haters, but you could do yourselves a favour and go to the site.  Pics of the foals are on there.  They have all been fed well, they are chipped and passported.  I agree more handling would be nice, but there are so many of them.  What should they have done.....picked some and left the others to die?


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## dree (10 September 2019)

Levrier said:



			No she is busy trolling in AAD instead... a change is as good as a rest apparently.... ðŸ™„
		
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I can go where I like on here, just like you.  But you must be a bit of a troll to follow me?


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## {97702} (10 September 2019)

dree said:



			I can go where I like on here, just like you.  But you must be a bit of a troll to follow me? 

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I think you flatter yourself more than somewhat ðŸ˜‚ I was replying to AmyMay, a long time user like myself....  but thanks for the amusement, Iâ€™ve been on the forum 15 years now and thatâ€™s one of the worst attempts at gaslighting Iâ€™ve seen ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


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## meleeka (10 September 2019)

dree said:



			Pics of the foals are on there.  They have all been fed well, they are chipped and passported.  I agree more handling would be nice, but there are so many of them.  What should they have done.....picked some and left the others to die?
		
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Well we donâ€™t know how they came into WWS in the first place so itâ€™s difficult to say what should have happened.  I wonder if theyâ€™ll be another load next year from the same place, and the year after that?


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## dree (10 September 2019)

meleeka said:



			Well we donâ€™t know how they came into WWS in the first place so itâ€™s difficult to say what should have happened.  I wonder if theyâ€™ll be another load next year from the same place, and the year after that?
		
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Why would you say that?  That's how rumours start....and roll on....and then suddenly that rumour is fact.


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## ester (10 September 2019)

Why do you keep assuming people on here havenâ€™t been on the site and seen the pictures/lives?
No point in sending us to see things weâ€™ve already seen that caused valid concern.


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## meleeka (10 September 2019)

dree said:



			Why would you say that?  That's how rumours start....and roll on....and then suddenly that rumour is fact. 

Click to expand...

Horses breed each year. Somebody has allowed these foals to be born so there presumably nothing stopping them foaling next year too?


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## Leo Walker (11 September 2019)

I've seen the lives, thats why I'm so concerned. The question is, you've seen those lives as well, why arent you concerned? 

These are all things clearly shown in the lives: Sickly looking foals eating slop from a trough twice a day and not being checked over. Adult horses chucked out in a tiny yard filled with cars being chased by a dog. Ponies slowly dying and no one there having enough sense to realise until its too late. Animals being stolen from owners and other rescue organisations. Excessive amounts of horses crammed into dusty paddocks with only hay to eat and sometimes no water.

I could go on and on


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## HEM (11 September 2019)

The whole thing is very bizarre. It seems Sandra has managed to hypnotise people with her lives to believe everything they are told. 

There are a lot of questions yet to be answered and I feel that is all the people on this thread really want. 

If you haven't been yourself Dree how can you believe Sandra over the lady that worked there and has said that they found a dead goat, animals were left without water etc. 

I am happy to support if I could make it to visit in person and was happy where my money was going and the welfare of all the animals was up to standard, but what I see through the lives (remembering this is the parts that Sandra and her team *WANT *us to see) I am skeptical of. I don't feel as though it would be a complete surprise if what the other lady (I can't remember her name, possibly Karen?) was all true.


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## dree (11 September 2019)

Leo Walker said:



			I've seen the lives, thats why I'm so concerned. The question is, you've seen those lives as well, why arent you concerned?

These are all things clearly shown in the lives: Sickly looking foals eating slop from a trough twice a day and not being checked over. Adult horses chucked out in a tiny yard filled with cars being chased by a dog. Ponies slowly dying and no one there having enough sense to realise until its too late. Animals being stolen from owners and other rescue organisations. Excessive amounts of horses crammed into dusty paddocks with only hay to eat and sometimes no water.

I could go on and on
		
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You and I must be watching different videos!!  Can you back up what you have just said, or is this just another rumour that becomes another rumour somewhere else, and ends up being the "truth".


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## dree (11 September 2019)

meleeka said:



			Horses breed each year. Somebody has allowed these foals to be born so there presumably nothing stopping them foaling next year too?
		
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They were not her foals.  They were tossed aside (presumably by gypsies as they are all gypsy types) and left to die.  They were found alone, with no mares, and no other horses in sight.  Someone phoned WWS and they went and collected them.  If they hadn't, the foals would have died.  I take off my hat to someone who does that.  The Rspca would have "kept and eye on them".....and the foals would have died.  I detest the Rspca, which is perhaps why I like someone who just goes in and does what is necessary to do.  Do you go on the site and have a look?


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## dree (11 September 2019)

HEM said:



			The whole thing is very bizarre. It seems Sandra has managed to hypnotise people with her lives to believe everything they are told.

There are a lot of questions yet to be answered and I feel that is all the people on this thread really want.

If you haven't been yourself Dree how can you believe Sandra over the lady that worked there and has said that they found a dead goat, animals were left without water etc.

I am happy to support if I could make it to visit in person and was happy where my money was going and the welfare of all the animals was up to standard, but what I see through the lives (remembering this is the parts that Sandra and her team *WANT *us to see) I am skeptical of. I don't feel as though it would be a complete surprise if what the other lady (I can't remember her name, possibly Karen?) was all true.
		
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Karen and Sandra fell out, so Karen is obviously going to say what she wants to say.  Does that mean that we should believe her?  Really, you have to go on the site and make up your own mind.  Or visit the sanctuary.  Sandra has repeatedly said that people are welcome.  She may not be perfect, but the horses, quite honestly, look well, as do the foals.  Maybe I'm wrong, and I'm being lied to?  (How many rescues to you trust?  I trust very few.)  If you look at PFK you would scream in horror and say they were being downright cruel, but no-one does because they do what they can do.


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## rascal (11 September 2019)

dree said:



			You and I must be watching different videos!!  Can you back up what you have just said, or is this just another rumour that becomes another rumour somewhere else, and ends up being the "truth".  [/QUOTE


Some of us did see the lives, and that is why we are so concerned. You know very little about horses if you think this is the right way to keep them. Those poor foals looked like they needed a wormer and a few good feeds. If you think this is acceptable then you either have no idea about animal welfare, or just do not care.
		
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## HEM (11 September 2019)

dree said:



			Karen and Sandra fell out, so Karen is obviously going to say what she wants to say.  Does that mean that we should believe her?  Really, you have to go on the site and make up your own mind.  Or visit the sanctuary.  Sandra has repeatedly said that people are welcome.  She may not be perfect, but the horses, quite honestly, look well, as do the foals.  Maybe I'm wrong, and I'm being lied to?  (How many rescues to you trust?  I trust very few.)  If you look at PFK you would scream in horror and say they were being downright cruel, but no-one does because they do what they can do.
		
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Of course, there are 2 sides of the truth always, I just feel Karen's is more realistic given what has been shown and not shown from the live videos. 

I have been on there website (assume that's what you mean by site) I am also on their facebook page and have watched many of the live videos Sandra posts. 

You keep saying to visit the sanctuary but haven't visited yourself?  To be truthfully honest, I don't want to visit the 'sanctuary' as I think it would both upset and enrage me. Plus I am not sure I would be welcome given the amount of name drops she provided in her live videos from people that are haters or backstabbers.It's not a professional set up and I do feel that that peoples naivety and generosity are being taken for granted.


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## Zero00000 (11 September 2019)

For what reason did Karen and Sandra fall out? 
Karen was one of her biggest advocates, she took a huge U turn once she visited site, that in itself speaks volumes.


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## meleeka (11 September 2019)

dree said:



			They were not her foals.  They were tossed aside (presumably by gypsies as they are all gypsy types) and left to die.  They were found alone, with no mares, and no other horses in sight.  Someone phoned WWS and they went and collected them.  If they hadn't, the foals would have died.  I take off my hat to someone who does that.  The Rspca would have "kept and eye on them".....and the foals would have died.  I detest the Rspca, which is perhaps why I like someone who just goes in and does what is necessary to do.  Do you go on the site and have a look?
		
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You must be aware of the rumours  that she knows exactly who these foals belonged to? I too detest the RSPCA but I really think in this case, gathering evidence and prosecuting would have been sensible. By rescuing them sheâ€™s given the owner a solution to all their unwanted colts and I really hope word doesnâ€™t get round in the travelling community that they can just be dumped on a field and sheâ€™ll collect them and sort the problem.  The foals she has are the tip of the iceberg and she could be overrun with them before much longer.


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## Amymay (11 September 2019)

I think that, at present, the foals remain peopleâ€™s biggest concerns.

They need to be split in to much smaller age appropriate groups.  Some of the older ones donâ€™t look too bad.  But feeding time is a disaster, and the younger (and weeker oneâ€™s) just donâ€™t get a look in.

Fair play to the woman for trying to help, but these little ones really do need to be managed very differently.


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## dree (11 September 2019)

meleeka said:



			You must be aware of the rumours  that she knows exactly who these foals belonged to? I too detest the RSPCA but I really think in this case, gathering evidence and prosecuting would have been sensible. By rescuing them sheâ€™s given the owner a solution to all their unwanted colts and I really hope word doesnâ€™t get round in the travelling community that they can just be dumped on a field and sheâ€™ll collect them and sort the problem.  The foals she has are the tip of the iceberg and she could be overrun with them before much longer.
		
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it's a catch 22 though, isn't it?  The travelling community do what they want, where they want.  They are very, very rarely prosecuted, and the Rspca and police leave them to it.  I know of one lot who have a friend's dogs.....and she can't get them back.  But getting back to the foals, what else does one do?  Leave them to die?  Just ignore them?  I don't know about you, but I couldn't do it.  You said:- "gathering evidence and prosecuting would have been sensible."  That sounds great, but who do you gather evidence against and prosecute, as they were on their own with no-one in sight?  No-one knew where they came from.


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## dree (11 September 2019)

amymay said:



			I think that, at present, the foals remain peopleâ€™s biggest concerns.

They need to be split in to much smaller age appropriate groups.  Some of the older ones donâ€™t look too bad.  But feeding time is a disaster, and the younger (and weeker oneâ€™s) just donâ€™t get a look in.

Fair play to the woman for trying to help, but these little ones really do need to be managed very differently.
		
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She is open to help from people who know what they are doing.  Phone her and offer your help.  Seriously.


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## dree (11 September 2019)

Zero00000 said:



			For what reason did Karen and Sandra fall out?
Karen was one of her biggest advocates, she took a huge U turn once she visited site, that in itself speaks volumes.
		
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As far as I'm aware, Karen had practically lived at the site.  How did they become best friends otherwise?


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## Leo Walker (11 September 2019)

dree said:



			You and I must be watching different videos!!  Can you back up what you have just said, or is this just another rumour that becomes another rumour somewhere else, and ends up being the "truth".  

Click to expand...

Yes I can back it up. Watch the live videos. Theres millions of them. In fact you can even go and read transcripts of them. Those are very interesting. Its amazing what people say in the course of jabbering on that doesnt get picked up on until its written down in front of you.

Its also interesting that you demand we watch the videos, but then when we have and we still have legitimate concerns, that you then start banging on about rumours. I am basing my opinion on the videos, not on any sort of rumours. Perhaps you could show me a video that shows healthy foals receiving appropriate care and handling, oh wait, there isnt one sadly.


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## dree (11 September 2019)

HEM said:



			Of course, there are 2 sides of the truth always, I just feel Karen's is more realistic given what has been shown and not shown from the live videos.

I have been on there website (assume that's what you mean by site) I am also on their facebook page and have watched many of the live videos Sandra posts.

You keep saying to visit the sanctuary but haven't visited yourself?  To be truthfully honest, I don't want to visit the 'sanctuary' as I think it would both upset and enrage me. Plus I am not sure I would be welcome given the amount of name drops she provided in her live videos from people that are haters or backstabbers.It's not a professional set up and I do feel that that peoples naivety and generosity are being taken for granted.
		
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You might be right.  At the moment, being in a wheelchair makes visiting her difficult, since my husband is my driver, and we go to dog shows every weekend.  I would love to visit, to see with my own eyes.  But in the meantime, |I am leaning on the side of Sandra, who at least is trying to do some good instead of spouting stuff, which, even to me, sounds like rubbish.


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## Leo Walker (11 September 2019)

dree said:



			She is open to help from people who know what they are doing.  Phone her and offer your help.  Seriously.
		
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Two of my friends have. Over 40yrs exeperience of rehabbing horses between them. They were both turned down. Several other well run and respected sanctuaries and rescues have. They were turned down as well. All amongst screams and accusations that they were trying to steal the limelight from Sandra.


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## Amymay (11 September 2019)

dree said:



			She is open to help from people who know what they are doing.  Phone her and offer your help.  Seriously.
		
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I donâ€™t live anywhere near her.  But common sense dictates that theyâ€™d do better in smaller groups. She shouldnâ€™t really need anyone to point that out to her.....??


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## HEM (11 September 2019)

amymay said:



			I donâ€™t live anywhere near her.  But common sense dictates that theyâ€™d do better in smaller groups. She shouldnâ€™t really need anyone to point that out to her.....??
		
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Surely if she needs that pointed out to her then she should not be the one in charge of a horse sanctuary


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## meleeka (11 September 2019)

Leo Walker said:



			Two of my friends have. Over 40yrs exeperience of rehabbing horses between them. They were both turned down. Several other well run and respected sanctuaries and rescues have. They were turned down as well. All amongst screams and accusations that they were trying to steal the limelight from Sandra.
		
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I know somebody who has a lot of contacts  in rescue and welfare who had offered to help with one particular rescue and the offer  was declined as well.


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## stormox (11 September 2019)

And behind the black pony in one of their pics is a sheep pen - with sheep in.  Far too small it only looks the size of a stable. Dilapidated shelter and just mud and earth. No grass. Sheep need grass. Sheep need to graze.


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## meleeka (11 September 2019)

dree said:



			it's a catch 22 though, isn't it?  The travelling community do what they want, where they want.  They are very, very rarely prosecuted, and the Rspca and police leave them to it.  I know of one lot who have a friend's dogs.....and she can't get them back.  But getting back to the foals, what else does one do?  Leave them to die?  Just ignore them?  I don't know about you, but I couldn't do it.  You said:- "gathering evidence and prosecuting would have been sensible."  That sounds great, but who do you gather evidence against and prosecute, as they were on their own with no-one in sight?  No-one knew where they came from.
		
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Sadly the travelling community will continue to do what they want. If Sandra hadnâ€™t taken them the RSPCA and local authority would have been obliged to do something with them, even if it meant putting them to sleep. That wouldnâ€™t have been cheap and the publicity surrounding it all may well have deterred the same person from doing it again on such a large scale. As it is theyâ€™ll be another field or poor foals next year. Sandra isnâ€™t going to be able to keep rescuing everything that needs rescuing, especially if she hasnâ€™t got the facilities to house them properly. Thereâ€™s a reason other rescues declare themselves full to new cases.


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## HEM (11 September 2019)

I have also just seen a Â£3k vet bill that SKS stated came out of her personal funds but then was re-posted onto the FB page with the caption stating it is where supporters funds are going.

So are the supporters funds going into Sandra's personal account and then paying for the vet bills?

The transparency of them showing the vet work they have done is great but I'm still a little confused as to why it seems to go to Sandra's personal bank account. I want to see how much they get in donations and the vet bills compared. I have a sneaky feeling there is a tidy income being made somewhere...


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## stormox (11 September 2019)

QUOTE [ Part of me thinks yes, the other part of me thinks no, it's because more people who ]it's a catch 22 though, isn't it?  The travelling community do what they want, where they want.  They are very, very rarely prosecuted, and the Rspca and police leave them to it.  I know of one lot who have a friend's dogs.....and she can't get them back.  But getting back to the foals, what else does one do?  Leave them to die?  Just ignore them?  I don't know about you, but I couldn't do it.  You said:- "gathering evidence and prosecuting would have been sensible."  That sounds great, but who do you gather evidence against and prosecute, as they were on their own with no-one in sight?  No-one knew where they came from.[/QUOTE]

I thought these foals were nothing to do with the 'travelling community" but came from a place whete foster mares are hired out to TB studs etc, the mares own foals being sacrificed so a more valuable one can be raised?
But wherever they came from, their management at WW is totally unprofessional  and very unfair on the weaker foals.


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## Clodagh (11 September 2019)

Stormox, rather random quotes from me there!!


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## dree (11 September 2019)

meleeka said:



			Sadly the travelling community will continue to do what they want. If Sandra hadnâ€™t taken them the RSPCA and local authority would have been obliged to do something with them, even if it meant putting them to sleep. That wouldnâ€™t have been cheap and the publicity surrounding it all may well have deterred the same person from doing it again on such a large scale. As it is theyâ€™ll be another field or poor foals next year. Sandra isnâ€™t going to be able to keep rescuing everything that needs rescuing, especially if she hasnâ€™t got the facilities to house them properly. Thereâ€™s a reason other rescues declare themselves full to new cases.
		
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You think that would deter the travelling community.  I don't think so.


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## dree (11 September 2019)

stormox said:



			QUOTE [ Part of me thinks yes, the other part of me thinks no, it's because more people who ]it's a catch 22 though, isn't it?  The travelling community do what they want, where they want.  They are very, very rarely prosecuted, and the Rspca and police leave them to it.  I know of one lot who have a friend's dogs.....and she can't get them back.  But getting back to the foals, what else does one do?  Leave them to die?  Just ignore them?  I don't know about you, but I couldn't do it.  You said:- "gathering evidence and prosecuting would have been sensible."  That sounds great, but who do you gather evidence against and prosecute, as they were on their own with no-one in sight?  No-one knew where they came from.
		
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I thought these foals were nothing to do with the 'travelling community" but came from a place whete foster mares are hired out to TB studs etc, the mares own foals being sacrificed so a more valuable one can be raised?
But wherever they came from, their management at WW is totally unprofessional  and very unfair on the weaker foals.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
I honestly don't know where you get that info from.  Do you have a source for that info?


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## PapaverFollis (11 September 2019)

Got a notification I'd been quoted...  weird.  Don't even think I joined in this thread!


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## Clodagh (11 September 2019)

PapaverFollis said:



			Got a notification I'd been quoted...  weird.  Don't even think I joined in this thread!
		
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same!
Stormox had done a multiquote - has now been edited so it looks as though we are insane. Not to worry!!


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## stormox (11 September 2019)

Sorry folks - yes was trying to put in Drees quote but unfortunately any quotes Id ever used appeared, and before I had a chance to edit them off people  had seen them!!


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## ester (11 September 2019)

That was original thought clodagh but I think it became apparent that they all came from the same guy who offloads (sells) them to different 'charities' every year. 

We must be watching very different videos, I'm pretty gobsmacked that anyone can watch them and think those foals have all been well cared for.


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## Clodagh (11 September 2019)

ester said:



			That was original thought clodagh but I think it became apparent that they all came from the same guy who offloads (sells) them to different 'charities' every year.
.
		
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Not me! I have no knowledge or comment on this thread.


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## ester (11 September 2019)

no, I posted that earlier, wasn't suggesting you!


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## dree (11 September 2019)

HEM said:



			Surely if she needs that pointed out to her then she should not be the one in charge of a horse sanctuary

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Everyone needs to somewhere.  Have you known everything about horses from day 1?


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## Amymay (11 September 2019)

dree said:



			Everyone needs to somewhere.  Have you known everything about horses from day 1?
		
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Oh come on. Youâ€™re really going to use that one?

With all due respect, if you donâ€™t know even the _basics_, then being in the â€˜rescueâ€™ game is best left to the professionals.


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## ester (11 September 2019)

ester said:



			no, I posted that earlier, wasn't suggesting you!
		
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ah it was the multiquote fail I think . 

It has been pointed out to her numerous times but other than the odd one removed the foals seem to still be altogether, from all the lives I HAVE watched and that are the sole generator of all the concerns for me, not a single one gives me any confidence about the care of the horses. Doesn't matter how many times someone suggests I watch them, they don't change.


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## dree (11 September 2019)

HEM said:



			Of course, there are 2 sides of the truth always, I just feel Karen's is more realistic given what has been shown and not shown from the live videos.

I have been on there website (assume that's what you mean by site) I am also on their facebook page and have watched many of the live videos Sandra posts.

You keep saying to visit the sanctuary but haven't visited yourself?  To be truthfully honest, I don't want to visit the 'sanctuary' as I think it would both upset and enrage me. Plus I am not sure I would be welcome given the amount of name drops she provided in her live videos from people that are haters or backstabbers.It's not a professional set up and I do feel that that peoples naivety and generosity are being taken for granted.
		
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As I'm currently in a wheelchair, it hasn't been possible to visit.  I'm hoping that four years of one thing after another is coming to an end, and I can get on my feet again.....and even ride again.  So, no, no visits from me. All I can say is that she touches my heart.  She may not do everything right, but she tries.  Who else would have taken on 40 foals??


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## dree (11 September 2019)

amymay said:



			Oh come on. Youâ€™re really going to use that one?

With all due respect, if you donâ€™t know even the _basics_, then being in the â€˜rescueâ€™ game is best left to the professionals.
		
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Even if you do manage to save lives?  These foals have been wormed, have had their feet trimmed, etc.  And they are eating.  I agree that the smaller ones should have been taken aside and more attention given to them, but I'm not there.  I really wish I could go and have a look. x

Btw, what do you mean by.......
Youâ€™re really going to use that one?  And I'm not in the rescue business?


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## ester (11 September 2019)

not just 'attention'


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## Amymay (11 September 2019)

dree said:



			Even if you do manage to save lives?  x
		
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At what cost? Replacing one bad situation for another?

Sadly anyone can set themselves up as a â€˜rescueâ€™.  Qualifications arenâ€™t needed.  And sadly many of these rescues prey on people who are gullible and have little equine (or other) experience themselves. This is why itâ€™s so important that people do their homework.

The woman _probably_ has good intentions.  But the husbandry and management skills are diabolical.

Winter is coming, a number of those foals wonâ€™t survive in their survival of the fittest environment.


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## dree (11 September 2019)

amymay said:



			At what cost? Replacing one bad situation for another?

Sadly anyone can set themselves up as a â€˜rescueâ€™.  Qualifications arenâ€™t needed.  And sadly many of these rescues prey on people who are gullible and have little equine (or other) experience themselves. This is why itâ€™s so important that people do their homework.

The woman _probably_ has good intentions.  But the husbandry and management skills are diabolical.

Winter is coming, a number of those foals wonâ€™t survive in their survival of the fittest environment.
		
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The foals are being rehomed, after the homes are vetted, so they will not be fighting to survive through the winter.


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## dree (11 September 2019)

ester said:



			not just 'attention'
		
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Meaning what exactly?


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## Amymay (11 September 2019)

dree said:



			The foals are being rehomed, after the homes are vetted, so they will not be fighting to survive through the winter.
		
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Theyâ€™re all going in the next eight weeks?


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## ester (11 September 2019)

dree said:



			Meaning what exactly?
		
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meaning exactly that, that the foals did not just mean more attention. Care, strategic feeding, monitoring of intake etc would all have been good. 

I'm glad that all the foals have homes lined up already so they are in their new homes in the next few weeks.


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## dree (11 September 2019)

amymay said:



			Theyâ€™re all going in the next eight weeks?
		
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I believe so.  People are being vetted now.  The foals are eating well, half of them had their feet done again today, and the other half are being done in the next few days.  They are are chipped and pass-ported.  Pass-ported to WWS so that if anything goes wrong, they can take the pony back if necessary.


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## Nasicus (11 September 2019)

I'll admit, I'm sceptical. All those foals are suddenly found homes for Â£200+ a pop? All those coloured cob colts, of which we have a glut of in the UK? It would certainly be great if they have all find homes and I truly hope that is the case for their sake and WW, but knowing WW we won't get any actual proof that they're gone off to new homes, just like we haven't received proof for a lot of things.


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## Amymay (11 September 2019)

30 odd foals before Christmas will be no mean feet.

Letâ€™s hope that they get split up before then so that the smaller ones can receive the nutritional support they need.  They are not thriving.


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## Amymay (11 September 2019)

Nasicus said:



			I'll admit, I'm sceptical. All those foals are suddenly found homes for Â£200+ a pop? All those coloured cob colts, of which we have a glut of in the UK? It would certainly be great if they have all find homes and I truly hope that is the case for their sake and WW, but knowing WW we won't get any actual proof that they're gone off to new homes, just like we haven't received proof for a lot of things.
		
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Where did you get Â£200 a pop from?


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## ester (11 September 2019)

that's what the advert that apparently didn't come from WW had them at


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## Amymay (11 September 2019)

ester said:



			that's what the advert that apparently didn't come from WW had them at
		
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Yes, Iâ€™d seen that. And it seems to be a scam.


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## ester (11 September 2019)

yes hence saying it didn't come from WW, but I imagine that is where nasicus got the Â£200 that was all.


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## dree (11 September 2019)

They *have* been wormed, etc.  And to say that I should know better, or I don't care, is just downright insulting.  I'm not saying that Sandra is perfect, but who is?  Those foals (and other horses in her care) will now have new homes and good lives.  Not bad for someone who doesn't know what she's doing.


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## dree (11 September 2019)

ester said:



			That was original thought clodagh but I think it became apparent that they all came from the same guy who offloads (sells) them to different 'charities' every year.

We must be watching very different videos, I'm pretty gobsmacked that anyone can watch them and think those foals have all been well cared for.
		
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They're being cared for as well as is possible when you have 40 of them!!  She's doing a better job than the Rspca would have done, that's for sure.  I've watched their "care" and it's sheer neglect.  Allowing all but 7 of the Coney Lane horses starve to death in a yard they put them in!!!  They make me spit with hatred.


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## dree (11 September 2019)

amymay said:



			30 odd foals before Christmas will be no mean feet.

Letâ€™s hope that they get split up before then so that the smaller ones can receive the nutritional support they need.  They are not thriving.
		
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Well, they are all going to individual (vetted) homes, so you needn't worry about them not thriving.


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## dree (11 September 2019)

Nasicus said:



			I'll admit, I'm sceptical. All those foals are suddenly found homes for Â£200+ a pop? All those coloured cob colts, of which we have a glut of in the UK? It would certainly be great if they have all find homes and I truly hope that is the case for their sake and WW, but knowing WW we won't get any actual proof that they're gone off to new homes, just like we haven't received proof for a lot of things.
		
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That was a scam.....someone pinched the pic and put that price up.


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## dree (11 September 2019)

Nasicus said:



			I'll admit, I'm sceptical. All those foals are suddenly found homes for Â£200+ a pop? All those coloured cob colts, of which we have a glut of in the UK? It would certainly be great if they have all find homes and I truly hope that is the case for their sake and WW, but knowing WW we won't get any actual proof that they're gone off to new homes, just like we haven't received proof for a lot of things.
		
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They're going to people who are following WWS.  They're not going for Â£200......that was a scam and nothing to do with WWS.


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## Amymay (11 September 2019)

dree said:



			Well, they are all going to individual (vetted) homes, so you needn't worry about them not thriving.
		
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Yes, but they should be thriving now - given smaller groups and individual management.  You do understand that donâ€™t you?


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## ester (11 September 2019)

'as well as possible' doesn't appear to be good enough to a lot of people. I've never understood why splitting them has been so impossible, or a better feeding regime than they have employed.

RSPCA fans on here you will find are fairly few and far between, we've been there too many times.


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## dree (12 September 2019)

amymay said:



			Yes, but they should be thriving now - given smaller groups and individual management.  You do understand that donâ€™t you?
		
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Yes, of course I understand.  I'm a BHSAI (not that that counts for much, depends where you got it....and I'm showing my age! lol) and if it was my yard things would have been different.  But it's not, and she's done her best......I take my hat off to her.  These foals will have good lives.  No starving to death on a Rspca watch for them.  Gotta go.....off on holiday tomorrow.


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## Amymay (12 September 2019)

dree said:



			I'm a BHSAI
		
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ðŸ˜±ðŸ˜±ðŸ˜±ðŸ˜±ðŸ˜±ðŸ˜±


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## Nasicus (12 September 2019)

I could have sworn it was previously a Â£200 rehoming fee, with the fee supposedly going towards their gelding on the condition they were brought back to WW for gelding, *not* that dopey advert that appeared, this was from well before that advert appeared. Unless that has changed and they're now rehoming for free?



ester said:



			yes hence saying it didn't come from WW, but I imagine that is where nasicus got the Â£200 that was all.
		
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Nope, this is from before that, I know that advert was bogus.


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## Nasicus (12 September 2019)

Attached screenshots of the page they started for Colt Rehoming.
Also mentions of rehoming fee in lives dating back to 19th July.
Not judging for asking a rehoming fee, but it's certainly a lot for what they are and how cheaply they can be picked up elsewhere, hence why I was sceptical that she's found homes for all of them. Also, who is carrying out the home checks? They've got less physical staff members than I have fingers. If they're getting followers to do the checks, what qualifies the followers to able to judge the homes?


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## ester (12 September 2019)

Sorry nasicus, yes I do remember that too, it threw up some queries about money already raised for gelding iirc. Thereâ€™s just too many pages going on really!


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## Leo Walker (12 September 2019)

The foals are being rehomed for Â£250. That comes from Sandra herself. Just seen you have shared the link already nasicus. I remember the figure as it is very high compared to the market value of Â£0 for these foals. And theres 44 isnt there? So thats Â£11000. Nice little earner when all its cost is buckets of slop. The microchips etc have all been paid for by donations.


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## ester (12 September 2019)

she paid Â£50 for them iirc though so you can take that off


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## Nasicus (12 September 2019)

ester said:



			Sorry nasicus, yes I do remember that too, it threw up some queries about money already raised for gelding iirc. Thereâ€™s just too many pages going on really!
		
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It's certainly one long, winding, twisty, turny tale, and we all know it's going to end up in tears. It's just a matter of when and how, and it's saddening that when it does happen, it'll be the horses who lose out.


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## Tiddlypom (29 September 2019)

Nasicus said:



			It's certainly one long, winding, twisty, turny tale, and we all know it's going to end up in tears. It's just a matter of when and how, and it's saddening that when it does happen, it'll be the horses who lose out.
		
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Am I imagining it, but the WW saga did end in tears, didnâ€™t it?


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## Leo Walker (29 September 2019)

Nope, still limping along. Some of the stuff thats gone on is so ridiculous it seems made up.


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## ester (29 September 2019)

nah they've got Â£180 000 000 apparently (no one corrected me!) so be fine


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## Peter7917 (6 November 2019)

Has everybody seen the recent picture of Marley.


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## SatansLittleHelper (7 November 2019)

Yes, saw that this evening...bloody awful ðŸ˜¥ðŸ˜¥ðŸ˜¥
I have no idea how they are getting away with the state of those poor animals ðŸ¤¬ðŸ¤¬ðŸ¤¬


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## Ddraig_wen (7 November 2019)

Saw the picture of Marley and saw today that the land lady from the Gowerton yard is requesting someone from the willows goes to the yard immediately. Seems she's been left with the care of all the horses on the land for the last 10 days.


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## HEM (7 November 2019)

I just has a look and couldn't see the picture of Marley? Has it been removed? Was it that bad?

I also say the land owners post  she didn't sound too happy!


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## DirectorFury (7 November 2019)

HEM said:



			I just has a look and couldn't see the picture of Marley? Has it been removed? Was it that bad?

I also say the land owners post  she didn't sound too happy!
		
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It's still on there, was posted about 24hrs ago so you'll have to scroll down a bit.

_Apparently_ the RSPCA visited and WWS is now under a section 9. I wonder what the poster who was defending them has to say now?


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## Amymay (7 November 2019)

Canâ€™t see any of the posts youâ€™re talking about, as thereâ€™s simply too much stuff on there to work out which ones youâ€™re referring to.  Sounds like itâ€™s all kicked off again though.


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## scats (7 November 2019)

I vaguely saw a post about a horse called Marley and he looks dreadful.  Is he at WW?  Iâ€™ve sort of lost track if Iâ€™m honest, Iâ€™ve no idea whatâ€™s going on there now.


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## Peter7917 (7 November 2019)




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## The Fuzzy Furry (7 November 2019)

Holey moley, is that a very recent photo?


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## Amymay (7 November 2019)

Christ. Whatâ€™s his story??


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## meleeka (7 November 2019)

The Fuzzy Furry said:



			Holey moley, is that a very recent photo?
		
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Apparently October. Thereâ€™s another photo of him last year looking well.  The owner signed him over some time ago.  The story goes that he ended up there because  of one of the volunteers but when she left they wouldnâ€™t let her take him.


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## The Fuzzy Furry (7 November 2019)

meleeka said:



			Apparently October. Thereâ€™s another photo of him last year looking well.  The owner signed him over some time ago.  The story goes that he ended up there because  of one of the volunteers but when she left they wouldnâ€™t let her take him.
		
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Dreadful condition,  poor blighter


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## meleeka (7 November 2019)




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## Sasanaskyex (7 November 2019)

I know Marley. He used to be kept on the same yard as me. His owner wanted to go travelling and tried to sell him but with no luck. So he went to a sanctuary with the promise that he would either be rehomed as a happy hacker or retired. Absolutely gutted to see him like this, he was 19 when he left our yard in 2018, he has a BS record and was a really beautiful horse. I've been told that his previous owners parents had been trying to see him but were unable to (idk why) and are now trying furiously to get him back. So sad, his previous owners adored him but as the daughter went travelling, her parents couldn't cope and thought he was going to the best place.


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## Roasted Chestnuts (7 November 2019)

Holy crap! Thatâ€™s bad!!!


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## ester (7 November 2019)

He looks like carrot did .


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## Amymay (7 November 2019)

ester said:



			He looks like carrot did .
		
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He does ðŸ˜©

Still canâ€™t find the post on their fab page.  But has there been any response to why heâ€™s so poor?


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## Laafet (7 November 2019)

Am currently watching the situation - 'rescuing' foals from the fallen stock man, putting horses all over the shop then can't move them when told too, poor foal care (the dummy foal). IMO she's just a hoarder but this is now looking like it is going to blow up bigger than Spindles Farm and it's going on in the full glare of social media with the huns and haters. It is so sad.


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## Ddraig_wen (7 November 2019)

After a desperate post this morning it is apparently all sweetness and light back at the Gowerton yard after volounteers and the owner turned up.


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## DirectorFury (7 November 2019)

amymay said:



			Still canâ€™t find the post on their fab page.  But has there been any response to why heâ€™s so poor?
		
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It's not on their FB page, it's on the 'truth' page (link here - you need to request to join). No response from WWS that I've seen.


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## blitznbobs (7 November 2019)

I do t get this mentality ... itâ€™s a f***ed up way of
Looking at things Iâ€™d rather my horse was shot that went through all of that to be â€˜savedâ€™ from a charity that has more money than sense... they need locking up


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## Leo Walker (7 November 2019)

The problem is the idiots donating money dont see it like that. Its life at all costs. Then they just ignore the fact that the place is an utter tip, horses are sick, adequate food and care isnt being provided etc, etc. She has horses hidden all over on rented land. Shes being asked to leave a lot of locations and has no where to put them.

So she is desperately trying to foster all the horses out for the winter, but people who are capable of taking them, dont trust her so wont take them. So people step up as they see a free horse, being delivered for free. I saw a comment yesterday where someone was being called out by a friend who said that she couldnt afford to do it. WWS ignored this and are still happy to deliver her a horse.

Its just a money making scam. They are asking people to pay them Â£60 to buy a bale of hay. They arent paying Â£60 for that hay. The same size and weight of hay costs me Â£35 in a much more expensive part of the world. So wheres the extra going? Its not going on the horses.

The whole thing sickens me.


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## ester (7 November 2019)

TBF the supplier (next door) did confirm that was the price - and that he delivers it to the fields I think too. We've had 8 feet longs before in the Â£40s I think but we are prime haymaking country.


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## Leo Walker (7 November 2019)

I must have missed that update. I'm still not sure I believe them either.


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## meleeka (7 November 2019)

ester said:



			TBF the supplier (next door) did confirm that was the price - and that he delivers it to the fields I think too. We've had 8 feet longs before in the Â£40s I think but we are prime haymaking country.
		
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Then rhe supplier must be making more money out of them than normal. Those bales are also Â£35 here and small bales are between Â£5 and Â£6 so hay definitely isnâ€™t cheap here.


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## ester (7 November 2019)

Quite possibly


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## Amymay (7 November 2019)

Looks like the Marley situation maybe under control.  Old owner has seen him, and has vet going to the horse tomorrow to assess his fitness to be moved.  Fingers crossed it doesnâ€™t go pear shaped.


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## NLPM (7 November 2019)

Jeez poor Marley. That's heartbreaking.

I do understand the horses are rescues and won't be in perfect condition, but there is a very poor looking foal on their latest set of photos. Someone has commented on its odd stance and said a vet needs to look at it, only to be told they're recovering from trauma and getting all the care they need. Might be true but I keep coming back to look at its photos - poor lad (lass?) looks very sorry for itself indeed. A little bit of stalking shows (s)he didn't look anywhere near as camped under a month ago...


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## Sandstone1 (8 November 2019)

Are the Rspca involved in this?     This so called rescue seems to have a lot of supporters but if that photo of Marley shows a horse that's been in their care for a while then something's very wrong.
Looks like they have overstretched yourselves.


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## ester (8 November 2019)

Yes, they've issues a section 9 (might have remembered the number wrong!)


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## dree (8 November 2019)

amymay said:



			Canâ€™t see any of the posts youâ€™re talking about, as thereâ€™s simply too much stuff on there to work out which ones youâ€™re referring to.  Sounds like itâ€™s all kicked off again though.
		
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They have removed the pics of Marley, but I downloaded them, so I have them on my puter.


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## dree (8 November 2019)

amymay said:



			Looks like the Marley situation maybe under control.  Old owner has seen him, and has vet going to the horse tomorrow to assess his fitness to be moved.  Fingers crossed it doesnâ€™t go pear shaped.
		
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She's holding back until he is fit to be moved.....that's how bad he is.


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## dree (8 November 2019)

NLPM said:



			Jeez poor Marley. That's heartbreaking.

I do understand the horses are rescues and won't be in perfect condition, but there is a very poor looking foal on their latest set of photos. Someone has commented on its odd stance and said a vet needs to look at it, only to be told they're recovering from trauma and getting all the care they need. Might be true but I keep coming back to look at its photos - poor lad (lass?) looks very sorry for itself indeed. A little bit of stalking shows (s)he didn't look anywhere near as camped under a month ago...
		
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That was me.  I kept saying will somebody please look at this foal?  This is their latest batch of foals.  The answer was he's been vet checked.  I don't believe them....there is something wrong with that little one, and if he has to fight for his food, he's not going to make it.  How they can't see that, I don't know.


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## Queenbee (8 November 2019)

Peter7917 said:



View attachment 38290
View attachment 38290

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Holy hell!


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## NLPM (8 November 2019)

dree said:



			That was me.  I kept saying will somebody please look at this foal?  This is their latest batch of foals.  The answer was he's been vet checked.  I don't believe them....there is something wrong with that little one, and if he has to fight for his food, he's not going to make it.  How they can't see that, I don't know.
		
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Ah I see. Good for you - there is definitely something not right with him at all & he looks like he's just lost the will. Can't see him anymore - not sure if I've been blocked or they've taken it down. Poor boy. I'd love to "step up and offer a home" as they keep asking complainers to do, but firstly, I REALLY don't want to encourage further rescuing; no one seems to know which foals are available and the people in charge of organising that keep passing the role on, which says a lot; and finally he's a massive vet bill waiting to happen - I'm not experienced enough to be the one trying to get legs at those angles to come right! There's something more than simple cow hocks going on there; I think there's a lot of pain somewhere else sadly.


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## dree (9 November 2019)

Btw, this is another batch of foals.  On top of the ones they already have.  NLPM the foal you (and I) are concerned about have only been there for a few days.   The say all vet checked and then say they're feral, so I personally don't think a vet has done a thorough examination of this new lot.


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## lilly1 (9 November 2019)

The page appears to have been closed.


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## NLPM (9 November 2019)

dree said:



			Btw, this is another batch of foals.  On top of the ones they already have.  NLPM the foal you (and I) are concerned about have only been there for a few days.   The say all vet checked and then say they're feral, so I personally don't think a vet has done a thorough examination of this new lot.
		
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We must be talking about different foals then (dear Lord!) as when I went back through their photos to see whether the recent photos were actually an improvement, there were pictures of this little black one from very early October (as in 2nd, 3rd, something like that), so he must have been there over 6 weeks.


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## Ddraig_wen (9 November 2019)

Their own page has been archived, there's a  comment on the truth page that other rescues are now involved


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## exracehorse (9 November 2019)

Not sure what on earth is going on


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## Mrs. Jingle (9 November 2019)

Lets hope that whatever is happening it will be the start of a huge improvement and change of fortune for all of those poor animals in their supposed 'care'


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## Ddraig_wen (9 November 2019)

According to Facebook RSPCA been in. Seriously ill and infirm from one yard being moved and all others in lockdown pending a multi agency meeting


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## The Fuzzy Furry (9 November 2019)

Ddraig_wen said:



			According to Facebook RSPCA been in. Seriously ill and infirm from one yard being moved and all others in lockdown pending a multi agency meeting
		
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 The section 9 must have been upgraded to a 10 then!


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## JanetGeorge (9 November 2019)

Unless my eyesight is FAR worse than I thought, this thread was started in MAY.  So RSPCA must have known about it for quite a while and have been doing not very much!!


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## Ddraig_wen (9 November 2019)

The Fuzzy Furry said:



			The section 9 must have been upgraded to a 10 then!
		
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Something seems to have happened. Both groups have been archived and theres a few posts on various groups saying the same. But you never know with facebook


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## meleeka (9 November 2019)

As far as I can tell itâ€™s all Kicked off because of the photo of the horse Marley and also the landowner where some of the horse are begging for help and the RSPCA have gone in.  I also read sheâ€™s been prohibited from moving any but was caught doing just that.

Sandra is apparently â€˜not wellâ€™ and has now gone awol ðŸ™„


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## exracehorse (10 November 2019)

meleeka said:



			As far as I can tell itâ€™s all Kicked off because of the photo of the horse Marley and also the landowner where some of the horse are begging for help and the RSPCA have gone in.  I also read sheâ€™s been prohibited from moving any but was caught doing just that.

Sandra is apparently â€˜not wellâ€™ and has now gone awol ðŸ™„
		
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Last time she was unwell, she returned with new teeth


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## ester (10 November 2019)

There was a post yesterday that horses were being removed, not verified and from which site was not mentioned.


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## Amymay (10 November 2019)

All pages now archived. Hopefully weâ€™ll get an update later.


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## Queenbee (10 November 2019)

I read on both the truth page and the real page last night that the RSPCA were in with the authorities and a vet and actively working on removal from all sites.  I also read on the 'real' page a strong hint that what was going on was not only about the horses but related to the use of donated money... 

time will tell.  I am no fan of the RSPCA, but am grateful that someone is there doing something for these boys and girls.


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## Zero00000 (10 November 2019)

Unconfirmed reports of animal welfare on site removing horses right now.


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## Leo Walker (10 November 2019)

Yup, as far as I know all horses are now either removed or being removed. This doesnt bode well for their futures sadly  I hope all those donaters and supporters take a long hard look at themselves and are a damn sight more careful in future. This is a situation that didnt need to happen.


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## Velcrobum (10 November 2019)

Wonder how long it takes before H&H reports this as it is relevant to the Equine world. I hope she gets prosecuted as this is as bad as Spindles Farm.


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## Sasanaskyex (10 November 2019)

Marley has another home to go to closer to his previous owners where he will be under the care of a different rescue and his previous owners. But he won't be able to travel for a few weeks yet. He has been moved from WW to an interim yard under veterinary care. Once better seems he will be going back on loan to the girl who rehomed him from WW so future looks a bit brighter for him. This info just came straight from his previous owner.


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## Zero00000 (10 November 2019)

Another previous owner collected her horse from another wws site yesterday.

If only she had accepted the offer of help from all those rescues months ago.

Maybe she wouldn't have got into this sorry state.

As horrible as their fate may be now, it can't be worse than rotting in a field forgotten about by a so called sanctuary.


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## ester (10 November 2019)

Sasanaskyex said:



			Marley has another home to go to closer to his previous owners where he will be under the care of a different rescue and his previous owners. But he won't be able to travel for a few weeks yet. He has been moved from WW to an interim yard under veterinary care. Once better seems he will be going back on loan to the girl who rehomed him from WW so future looks a bit brighter for him. This info just came straight from his previous owner.
		
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How far away do his owners live?
I do find the not fit to travel in this sort of circumstance a bit odd, when going elsewhere would be so much better for them and plenty of rescue cases are travelled in similar circumstance.

I also don't understand the owner who went and collected her horse yesterday, why on earth not before given all the evidence.


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## Queenbee (10 November 2019)

Leo Walker said:



			Yup, as far as I know all horses are now either removed or being removed. This doesnt bode well for their futures sadly  I hope all those donaters and supporters take a long hard look at themselves and are a damn sight more careful in future. This is a situation that didnt need to happen.
		
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Their will be some who open their eyes as a result of this process but sadly having seen the willful ignorance and adoration dished out by them for S... I suspect that they will not lay any blame in the appropriate directions and should these horses or at least some be destroyed now or lost in systems and/or passed on to the wrong people... they will undoubtedly lay the blame at the 'haters'... you just can't teach common sense sadly.


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## Queenbee (10 November 2019)

ester said:



			How far away do his owners live?
I do find the not fit to travel in this sort of circumstance a bit odd, when going elsewhere would be so much better for them and plenty of rescue cases are travelled in similar circumstance.

I also don't understand the owner who went and collected her horse yesterday, why on earth not before given all the evidence.
		
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I really couldn't answer that as I have no clue however I wouldn't be surprised if now that S has gone to ground, it was the first time the owners could get a clear idea of which site the horse was at and access to take the horse.


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## ester (10 November 2019)

'It's not their fault they took on too much, they were just trying to help, they couldn't not take them' etc etc, all been said before in similar situations.

good point about access/which site.


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## Queenbee (10 November 2019)

ester said:



			'It's not their fault they took on too much, they were just trying to help, they couldn't not take them' etc etc, all been said before in similar situations.

good point about access/which site.
		
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Yes sadly they are aguments I too have seen used before by supporters of this charity and many others who have been before them.  After the statement hinting that they believed that appropriate people were also looking into the use of donation monies - I actually saw one person respond yesterday saying that they didn't mind what happened to the money they had donated as long as some of it had gone to the care of the horses.  

Its all so very sad


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## meleeka (10 November 2019)

Leo Walker said:



			Yup, as far as I know all horses are now either removed or being removed. This doesnt bode well for their futures sadly  I hope all those donaters and supporters take a long hard look at themselves and are a damn sight more careful in future. This is a situation that didnt need to happen.
		
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Certainly those supporters thar have blindly defended her and donate without really knowing where the money has gone have enabled her to behave in the way she has. They are all responsible for the mess thatâ€™s been created.


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## Leo Walker (10 November 2019)

ester said:



			'It's not their fault they took on too much, they were just trying to help, they couldn't not take them' etc etc, all been said before in similar situations.

good point about access/which site.
		
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I've had to unfollow the groups. The hate group is just whipping up drama and drip feeding random bits of information which dont ring true, and someone on the other one just called Sandra a hero and I just cant do it anymore!


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## Queenbee (10 November 2019)

Leo Walker said:



			I've had to unfollow the groups. The hate group is just whipping up drama and drip feeding random bits of information which dont ring true, and someone on the other one just called Sandra a hero and I just cant do it anymore!
		
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Agree with you there.... I read it last night but have stayed well away today... I can't take that level of stupidity x


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## scats (10 November 2019)

Have they closed down?  I canâ€™t make head nor tail of the truth group!


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## Queenbee (10 November 2019)

scats said:



			Have they closed down?  I canâ€™t make head nor tail of the truth group!
		
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As I said I haven't been on today but yesterday I saw that S had gone awol as had other key figures... one landowner was posting and had been for a few days desperate for help and advice with the horses who had been left flooded and without food, hay, mucking out etc.  She was way out of her depth but to be fair really did look to  be trying to reach out whereas the main people were quieter than mice.  The landowner reached out to a vet for one or two of the horses.  At the same time a very skinny pic of another horse with WW was leaked to social media, there was mention of credible evidence that S was trying to move horses due to very real possible visits from RSPCA and Police... all hell broke loose and suddenly varying reports of action from RCPCA and Police being on site... actively dealing with every site were popping up on both the 'real' and the 'truth' site.  oh and one or two horses went back to their owners. 

That is about it from yesterdays shenanigans.


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## Velcrobum (10 November 2019)

What are the truth and hater groups are they FB groups??


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## meleeka (10 November 2019)

Leo Walker said:



			I've had to unfollow the groups. The hate group is just whipping up drama and drip feeding random bits of information which dont ring true, and someone on the other one just called Sandra a hero and I just cant do it anymore!
		
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Which group called her a hero?! ðŸ˜‚


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## Chinchilla (10 November 2019)

Just a thought: has anyone checked local newspapers/websites near to the yards? In previous situations with welfare involved/large numbers of animals etc it's been on local news sites? Or RSPCA sometimes post things along the lines of 'we're on site and request people not to speculate as it will compromise any prosecution we do".


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## NLPM (10 November 2019)

What utter chaos.

Just had a search on FB for the "truth" page, but you have to answer questions to be able to view it?! The first question is "Why do you want to join this page?" and I thought I can't exactly put "No reason other than I'm a nosy mare and I want to be able to join in on the HHO thread!", can I?! 

I hope those foals are OK.


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## meleeka (10 November 2019)

NLPM said:



			What utter chaos.

Just had a search on FB for the "truth" page, but you have to answer questions to be able to view it?! The first question is "Why do you want to join this page?" and I thought I can't exactly put "No reason other than I'm a nosy mare and I want to be able to join in on the HHO thread!", can I?! 

I hope those foals are OK.
		
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You can put â€˜curiosityâ€™. I did


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## ester (11 November 2019)

Chinchilla said:



			Just a thought: has anyone checked local newspapers/websites near to the yards? In previous situations with welfare involved/large numbers of animals etc it's been on local news sites? Or RSPCA sometimes post things along the lines of 'we're on site and request people not to speculate as it will compromise any prosecution we do".
		
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This is the issue, and why I am really suspicious when they say 'authorities' as any of the big guns will usually do a statement pretty quickly stating the basics. I'm concerned that this might just be involving other local 'rescues' who have given themselves authority.


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## Leo Walker (11 November 2019)

The hate group isnt all it seems and is causing a lot of needless drama, as are the other 2 groups to be fair. I think its fair to say that WWS is no more. I dont know if Sandra is being prosecuted, I really hope so. I also really hope the admin and supporters are taking responsibility for causing this situation and that some of them are investigated for financial irregularities at the very least. Its the only thing that will put other people off creating another situation like this.

So, as far as I know, and I have no reason to disbelieve the source, yesterday and the day before the RSPCA and WHW where on site removing horses and sadly putting horses to sleep. Anyone who has a horse they own there has been called to collect them and people have been shipping them out.


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## scats (11 November 2019)

The majority of us could see this coming a mile off.  What a very sad situation for the horses involved.


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## Elf On A Shelf (11 November 2019)

Someone has literally just posted on a local to me FB group that they are going to volunteer at WW for a week soon and would appreciate any donations that they can take down with them - rugs, food etc. Someone replied saying they might want to check out the situation first. Their response? "what trouble like people impersonating police officers, trespassing and giving the horses drugs they shouldn't? Because that's not whispering willows. That's these people who got Bobby removed from them causing lies. The state whispering willows got Bobby in was disgusting. She was barely a 1! That person should hide in shame not start a bunch of lies. "


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## HEM (11 November 2019)

Thanks for the updates all!

Such a sad situation but unfortunately as Scats said, saw it coming a mile off!

I really do hope Sandra gets prosecuted for some kind of financial fraud at the very least! She can't get away with it!!


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## stormox (11 November 2019)

Why hasnt this RSPCA raid been shown on TV or something? I remember Spindles Farm, it was all over Sky News. And 4paws in Boston was on BBC as was the Alternatuve Animal Sanctuary....


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## meleeka (11 November 2019)

stormox said:



			Why hasnt this RSPCA raid been shown on TV or something? I remember Spindles Farm, it was all over Sky News. And 4paws in Boston was on BBC as was the Alternatuve Animal Sanctuary....
		
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Iâ€™m guessing not such dramatic news as the horses are at different locations so no welfare turning up with loads of lorries.


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## ester (11 November 2019)

Because it might well not be an RSPCA raid?!
I know they shouldn't be moving otherwise I think given the section 9 but since that all that has been said is 'the authorities' are sorting it, no confirmation of which authorities.


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## Asha (11 November 2019)

I have to admit ( hangs head in shame )  I was initially taken in by them. Just saw a clip of her running to the rescue of a poor foal/yearling in north wales. The one in the car park. So I joined the FB group to follow them and to watch good people go the extra mile and rescue horses.  It took me a couple of weeks before I removed myself from the group, as something didn't sit quite right. I never donated, as when people start asking for money that's when I tend to get a little suspicious. Ive never thought of myself as naÃ¯ve, but clearly I am. Feel for all those ponies, I just hope they get justice.


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## meleeka (11 November 2019)

ester said:



			Because it might well not be an RSPCA raid?!
I know they shouldn't be moving otherwise I think given the section 9 but since that all that has been said is 'the authorities' are sorting it, no confirmation of which authorities.
		
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Good point. Itâ€™s not like the RSPCA to shy away from publicity.


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## ester (11 November 2019)

Sorry for keeping the group archived, I'm sure most of you will understand our reasons for this.
The RSPCA will be making an official statement very soon, all rehoming of horses will be through the RSPCA and only the RSPCA, but this will
not happen for a while, we will add advice on this in the future and we will be happy to help those are genuine to log an interest, we are aware many people are are concerned about the horses and donations etc, we will do all we can to help and advise, but none of this will happen overnight. 
Thank you all for your patience, we don't want to leave the page open unless we are available to help where we can, there are too many untruths circulating and interference needs to be kept to a minimum, please whatever your feelings and we know emotions are running high, but it is of utmost importance there is no hate put on social media about the people involved in this situation, we will be back when we can.


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## The Trooper (11 November 2019)

I've just seen a post from Lesley at Trallwm Farm Animal Sanctuary saying that the RSPCA have seized all WWHS horses. I don't know how reliable this source is however?


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## Nasicus (11 November 2019)

So is WW no more then?


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## ester (11 November 2019)

seems like it.


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## meleeka (11 November 2019)

Nasicus said:



			So is WW no more then?
		
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It seems not. Sandra is reported to be on holiday in Egypt currently. Bonkers.


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## ester (11 November 2019)

wonder if just hol or a cosmetics hol.


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## Amymay (11 November 2019)

meleeka said:



			It seems not. Sandra is reported to be on holiday in Egypt currently. Bonkers.
		
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ðŸ˜±ðŸ˜±ðŸ˜±ðŸ˜±ðŸ˜±


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## Rosemary28 (11 November 2019)

meleeka said:



			It seems not. Sandra is reported to be on holiday in Egypt currently. Bonkers.
		
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Madness. The whole thing is bonkers.


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## cremedemonthe (11 November 2019)

Been following it on facebook, seems she's gone to lay low. Whispering Willows is not far from me by all accounts, hope she doesn't come back.
She's left the land she "rents" in a bad way, unpaid bills and lots of neglected equines.


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## Nasicus (11 November 2019)

meleeka said:



			It seems not. Sandra is reported to be on holiday in Egypt currently. Bonkers.
		
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Christ almighty


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## dorsetladette (11 November 2019)

I've just had a look on companies house - Whispering willows is a LTD company. But the only director is Sandra and her occupation is unemployed. So, how she affording to go to Egypt at the drop of a hat?


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## ester (11 November 2019)

dorsetladette said:



			I've just had a look on companies house - Whispering willows is a LTD company. But the only director is Sandra and her occupation is unemployed. So, how she affording to go to Egypt at the drop of a hat?
		
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It's all the inheritance  which at one point was 1.8 million, but previously 180 000


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## dorsetladette (11 November 2019)

ester said:



			It's all the inheritance  which at one point was 1.8 million, but previously 180 000
		
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I lost track of it all a while ago as couldn't stand the 'lives' 

surely with that much 'inheritance' you'd have a lovely set up or at least lots of land


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## Zero00000 (11 November 2019)

Whispering willows have had all the horses siezed or signed over to RSPCA and WHW. All horses will be off the gowerton yard by the end of today and the gowerton site is effectively closed as of now. All horses are safe that have been moved as they are part of a huge investigation by various agencies. The Alltwen yard, I cannot comment on as very little has been able to be done there yet. I know the horses and ponies that needed veterinary treatment have been moved to places where they can receive this.

ONLY registered charities or registered owners of animals will be able to come forward to claim or assist any animals from this case so please, whilst it is kind of people to be free homes or fostering, due to the nature of the case this is a standard requirement to ensure "evidence" is kept available for inspection.

Regarding a statement made by Lesley Cooper of Trallwm Farm regarding contacting her quietly and she will point people in the right direction. Utter tosh! She has not ever been any part of this investigation and only knows what she has been told by less than desirable contacts or that she has read on the internet. She also has been warned by the police about implying that a certain person is a police officer or anything else. This person has never professed to be such. Others have read into a situation and spread poop like butter on warm toast!

Please bear with the lack of information. I hope you can appreciate that it is still ongoing and no information will be shared by us that causes issues in this investigation. Anyone found doing so, with malicious intent, will be treated to a brush with legal proceedings.

Donations towards these horses will be appreciated but until it is known where to direct these, please hold off.

Thank you

Your admin team.
X and X

Ps someone needs to file a missing person report.

copied from another Facebook page, names removed.


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## ester (11 November 2019)

I am pleased that this is being sorted before winter proper at least, as things would likely be much worse in a few months time.


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## Velcrobum (11 November 2019)

Not surprised the owner of the Ltd company has done a runner. Interestingly there is not a peep in the local media. Sounds like a lot of very hard work has been going on in the background to get this successful conclusion. I hope all the people involved in the "care" of these poor animals get prosecuted.


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## exracehorse (11 November 2019)

Itâ€™s like a script for a movie.


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## 9tails (11 November 2019)

@Zero00000 that third paragraph makes a mockery of a pretty serious statement!  They had to get a rant in somewhere.


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## Leo Walker (11 November 2019)

9tails said:



@Zero00000 that third paragraph makes a mockery of a pretty serious statement!  They had to get a rant in somewhere.
		
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They are idiots and all is not as it seems with that group and the admin. They seem to love the drama of it all, when at the end of the day they are just a random group of people, they have no special insight of information despite what they say. I posted a while back the WHW and the RSPCA were on site removing horses. Thats all that needed to be said, but they didnt want to do that and instead whipped people up into a frenzy over it dripping bits of information out here and there. Its time they shut the page down. It serves no purpose anymore, not that it ever really did TBH.


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## Zero00000 (11 November 2019)

Totally agree, every page seems to be competing on who knows more than each other.


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## sherry90 (11 November 2019)

And yet the truth group are also asking for donations now too? Even though they arenâ€™t a registered charity either...hypocrisy much? 

Not that Iâ€™m saying the outcome isnâ€™t the best thing for the horses but why does there always need to be competition in these situations of who knows the most. It just smacks of ego stroking and arrogance. No one ever seems to be humble or modest in these scenarios!


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## stormox (11 November 2019)

What happened to the horses that WW 'rescued' from the Alternative Sanctuary? Did they go back to Tamara? I believe there was a court case.


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## [131452] (11 November 2019)

To be fair Lesley Cooper didn't imply that someone is a police officer,  she said that people shouldn't be so stupid as to believe someone who pretends to be a police officer,  or words to that effect.

What does make me laugh is this Facebook group where admins  are coming across like some kind of authorities,  "advising" people of the legal implications of comments (As in calling someone a bitch will result in them getting a more lenient sentence kind of stuff)  and talking about how they are collating "evidence ". Just a bunch of housewives the lot of them, nothing to do with an actual criminal investigation and certainly not in any position to gather any evidence.

Btw did anyone notice the nice veneers Sandra had done whilstbegging for money? I do wonder where all those donations went ?ðŸ¤”


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## ester (11 November 2019)

There was a court case, 
Sandra was told she had to keep them (in my head I want to say for 9 months?! but I might have made that bit up) and that Tamara didn't have to pay for that keep.


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## ester (11 November 2019)

Silly Servant said:



			Btw did anyone notice the nice veneers Sandra had done whilstbegging for money? I do wonder where all those donations went ?ðŸ¤”
		
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how could you not notice....


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## [131452] (11 November 2019)

sherry90 said:



			And yet the truth group are also asking for donations now too? Even though they arenâ€™t a registered charity either...hypocrisy much?

Not that Iâ€™m saying the outcome isnâ€™t the best thing for the horses but why does there always need to be competition in these situations of who knows the most. It just smacks of ego stroking and arrogance. No one ever seems to be humble or modest in these scenarios!
		
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Wow - what are they asking donations for?


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## ester (11 November 2019)

I have only seen them say that donations for the horses would still be welcomed, and they understand that some might want to donate but to hang on until we know where they all end up.


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## Amymay (11 November 2019)

Silly Servant said:



			Wow - what are they asking donations for?
		
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Iâ€™m not sure they are... ðŸ¤·ðŸ»â€â™€ï¸


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## [131452] (11 November 2019)

amymay said:



			Iâ€™m not sure they are... ðŸ¤·ðŸ»â€â™€ï¸
		
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Yes just checked,  they're not actually asking for donations


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## sherry90 (11 November 2019)

Silly Servant said:



			Yes just checked,  they're not actually asking for donations
		
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Sorry I have reread and maybe I interpreted incorrectly. â€˜Donations towards these horses will be appreciated but until it is known where to direct these, please hold off.â€™

I understand what they mean now.


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## meleeka (11 November 2019)

I wonder if people realise just how long the legal process takes?   It could be a year before the real facts are known.


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## ester (11 November 2019)

Re. the Tamara court case (it was until her court date was heard I think).


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## stormox (12 November 2019)

19 horses? I thought there was about 40. It all sounds an awful mess. If people with elderly and unridable horses they dont want took responsibility and had them PTS things like this wouldnt happen.


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## meleeka (12 November 2019)

ester said:



			Re. the Tamara court case (it was until her court date was heard I think).

View attachment 38460

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Iâ€™m unfamiliar with the issues with Tamara. Who is she and what happened?


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## JanetGeorge (12 November 2019)

stormox said:



			19 horses? I thought there was about 40. It all sounds an awful mess. If people with elderly and unridable horses they dont want took responsibility and had them PTS things like this wouldnt happen.
		
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The saddest part of all this is that it will deter many from making donations to the good charities, the ones who are registered charities and follow the rules.  Or restrict them to only helping the big names - like RSPCA and a few others who CAN afford to take the action needed - but can be a bit too slow to get themselves in gear.

If you are looking for a small, registered and excellent horse welfare charity to support, please check out http://www.equinemarketwatch.org.uk/index.php


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## ester (12 November 2019)

meleeka said:



			Iâ€™m unfamiliar with the issues with Tamara. Who is she and what happened?
		
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I think it started off as a friendly will you take them for a bit because the RSPCA know about me/them now, and went downhill from there.

https://www.lincolnshirelive.co.uk/news/local-news/owner-animal-sanctuary-admits-dead-2901246 

'She says she was particularly concerned about the horses, which the RSPCA said needed work doing on in the week ahead if they were to stay at the property.

"In an absolute panic I found a very kind person in Wales who has taken them to get all the work done," she said. "But it's cost an absolute fortune. It's very stressful, two horses have been lost in the process because of the stress. (those were the two that died while they were trying to load them in the dark, there was a video at one point back then)'


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## Zero00000 (12 November 2019)

Number of horses in WWS has to be close to 150 maybe more, if you add all the 'rescues' together, it's quite scary to think how many were hidden away from the public eye, and I think when the truth is eventually out, it will make for a distressing read.

It's hard not to see the rumours flying around, trying to stay positive that it isn't as bad as it seems, just for the sake of the poor horses that were there


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## meleeka (12 November 2019)

ester said:



			I think it started off as a friendly will you take them for a bit because the RSPCA know about me/them now, and went downhill from there.

https://www.lincolnshirelive.co.uk/news/local-news/owner-animal-sanctuary-admits-dead-2901246 

'She says she was particularly concerned about the horses, which the RSPCA said needed work doing on in the week ahead if they were to stay at the property.

"In an absolute panic I found a very kind person in Wales who has taken them to get all the work done," she said. "But it's cost an absolute fortune. It's very stressful, two horses have been lost in the process because of the stress. (those were the two that died while they were trying to load them in the dark, there was a video at one point back then)'
		
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Were these the ones they tried to load in the dark? I so remember that.  So this Tamara took her to court to get the horses back?


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## ester (12 November 2019)

yup
and yup, I think it was over return rather than any sort of payment.


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## meleeka (12 November 2019)

ester said:



			yup
and yup, I think it was over return rather than any sort of payment.
		
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Blimey!


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## dorsetladette (12 November 2019)

ester said:



			yup
and yup, I think it was over return rather than any sort of payment.
		
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I'd only assume the ponies weren't returned due to them being rehomed? Probably for a profit - I can't see why you wouldn't return something that is going to cost to keep when you are struggling for money.


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## ester (12 November 2019)

Steady, don't go trying to include logic on illogical situations! 
I think she thought the judge would order that Tamara had to pay their keep, but he didn't. 

Those 19 (I do think the initial number was higher too as someone else said, those are the remainders that haven't been passed on) have definitely been cited as still being with WWS


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## dorsetladette (12 November 2019)

ester said:



			Steady, don't go trying to include logic on illogical situations!
I think she thought the judge would order that Tamara had to pay their keep, but he didn't.

Those 19 (I do think the initial number was higher too as someone else said, those are the remainders that haven't been passed on) have definitely been cited as still being with WWS
		
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Silly me trying to understand the un-understandable! 

I often thought the re-homing drives were a bit hit and miss. I suppose I just assumed as there were so many followers they had re homed a lot more than they had. So, got a few quid and moved on. 

As others have said I think this is going to be horrendous when it finally all comes to light. But just can't get my head round why 1) you'd do this so publicly 2) you'd keep taking on more knowing the ones you had you couldn't afford.


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## ester (12 November 2019)

see, you were doing so well then you went straight back to logic


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## meleeka (12 November 2019)

dorsetladette said:



			Silly me trying to understand the un-understandable! 

I often thought the re-homing drives were a bit hit and miss. I suppose I just assumed as there were so many followers they had re homed a lot more than they had. So, got a few quid and moved on. 

As others have said I think this is going to be horrendous when it finally all comes to light. But just can't get my head round why 1) you'd do this so publicly 2) you'd keep taking on more knowing the ones you had you couldn't afford.
		
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My guess is that she started with good intentions but it became mire about her ego and the adoration she received. 

Each new rescue generated more publicity for her which fed her huge ego.  She admitted she wasnâ€™t very experienced with horses so maybe underestimated the care they needed.


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## dorsetladette (12 November 2019)

Just had a quick FB search - a poor woman dropped off a pony to WWS on 30th October. Hopefully she is one of the owners who have been contacted to collect their animals. 

Meleeka - I think that is probably the kindest way of looking at it - that she underestimated the care required.


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## Velcrobum (12 November 2019)

Interesting there has not been a peep about this in any of the localities media.


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## Zero00000 (12 November 2019)

dorsetladette said:



			Just had a quick FB search - a poor woman dropped off a pony to WWS on 30th October. Hopefully she is one of the owners who have been contacted to collect their animals.

Meleeka - I think that is probably the kindest way of looking at it - that she underestimated the care required.
		
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If it is the owner of the black pony, she had commented that she had found where he was and that he should be home soon.


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## ester (12 November 2019)




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## ester (12 November 2019)




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## Amymay (12 November 2019)

Five big organisations assisting. Good grief.


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## ester (12 November 2019)

yup, it finishes with who to contact if you own one.


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## Queenbee (12 November 2019)

I did a bit of work with the mare and foal sanctuary.  They are amazing, the care they give is second to none, so pleased to hear they are involved.  The site they use to take their worst cases is actually the place I learnt to ride at and boarded my first pony before they acquired it.  They are a truly professional outfit that I wouldn't hesitate to recommend.


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## ester (12 November 2019)

Given the number of foals that look rough enough to need some specialist help for a bit I'm very pleased to see they are involved. 
Realistically I am very pleased to see that it is not just an RSPCA situation.


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## Tiddlypom (12 November 2019)

Itâ€™s interesting that the joint agencies state that the equines will be rehomed or offered a sanctuary home in the future. No mention of PTS. 

It inevitably has a big impact on the rescue centres when they take in large numbers of rescues at once. IME the centre might need to go into â€˜lockdownâ€™ ie all hands to the pumps to assist with the new intake.


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## Peter7917 (12 November 2019)

Sueq said:



			I am replying to your comment about Sandra . For 1 Sandra is a very passionate woman regarding her horses and any she goes out to rescue. And there's no vigilante ppl that work for her. Please before anyone else comments please look at the good work she has done with Lilly she brought this mare back from near death when she rescued this mare she couldn't even stand but Sandra nursed her back. The reason Sandra or wws don't want to be registered is there is to many restrictions on her were rescuing these poor babies. So she stays the way she is. And ppl like me and thousands of others donate when we can to help out. This lady has had so much hassle of certain ppl on a very nasty site called the truth about wws. They have told her to go kill herself they abuse her they threaten her and do you want to no why well here is 1 instance she would not give certain ppl the ex race horses to make money off them. But please message Sandra and ask her instead of listening to nasty ppl. These same ppl that yesterday in the early hours of the morning when in to Sandra sanctuary and broke the lock and chain on the gate and  let all the foals out. Went onto her yard let the stallions out then let all the mares  with there new born foals out ect ect. These are the same ppl that have the horrible site the truth about wws. Do these sound like animal lovers. They are now going to far stalking Sandra and anyone that speaks out about them. It's got to the point now that the law is involved. So please everyone that are negatively commenting please take a look at Sandra and her sanctuary and if you have any questions please contact her she will answer anything you want to no as she's very transparent sorry for the long comment but it really annoys me what these ppl are doing to this woman and her sanctuary  thankyou
		
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Eating your words now I hope.


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## Dobiegirl (12 November 2019)

This is exactly the same as what AHAR accused people of, breaking in and letting the animals out, no proof just their word and their sheep believe every word. Its like taking sweets from a baby.


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## Leo Walker (13 November 2019)

amymay said:



			Five big organisations assisting. Good grief.
		
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There was at least 150, probably closer to 200 horses so too much for any one to handle.



Tiddlypom said:



			Itâ€™s interesting that the joint agencies state that the equines will be rehomed or offered a sanctuary home in the future. No mention of PTS.

It inevitably has a big impact on the rescue centres when they take in large numbers of rescues at once. IME the centre might need to go into â€˜lockdownâ€™ ie all hands to the pumps to assist with the new intake.
		
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There have already been some PTS. Several were PTS before they left the place unfortunately. I'm not actually sure what else could have happened given the state of some of them.

I wonder who will be the next con artist to set up like this, because the one thing you can guarantee is that this isn't the last time.


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## dorsetladette (13 November 2019)

I was told by a friend of a friend on FB that Sandra is having mental health problems and the only reason RSPCA are there is concerns for overcrowding. Apparently this person has been and helped at the yard and was happy with the vet visits and care given. It's scary that people are still defending the situation. 

But, does that mean that Egypt is code name for something?


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## DirectorFury (13 November 2019)

Leo Walker said:



			I wonder who will be the next con artist to set up like this, because the one thing you can guarantee is that this isn't the last time.
		
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A certain very very dodgy dealer currently has a GoFundMe page up for her new 'rescue' that involves a man who spent 4 1/2 years in prison for modern slavery. There's also another new 'rescue' run by yet another pair of dodgy dealers. Info can be found on the 'Dodgy Horse Dealers & Sellers' FB page, posted yesterday at 9am.

Looks like they've cottoned on that this is a good way to make money .


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## meleeka (13 November 2019)

DirectorFury said:



			A certain very very dodgy dealer currently has a GoFundMe page up for her new 'rescue' that involves a man who spent 4 1/2 years in prison for modern slavery. There's also another new 'rescue' run by yet another pair of dodgy dealers. Info can be found on the 'Dodgy Horse Dealers & Sellers' FB page, posted yesterday at 9am.

Looks like they've cottoned on that this is a good way to make money .
		
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And sadly there will always be people who are gullible enough to support them. 

What I find very sad in all this is that so many of WWS supporters seemed to be people who had their own problems.  Many posts mentioned Physical and mental disabilities and financial woes, but people felt they were part of something good and were happy to go without themselves to support her. I guess thatâ€™s how conmen work, they prey on the vulnerable ðŸ˜¥


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## Amymay (13 November 2019)

Where are you getting your info from LW?


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## Leo Walker (13 November 2019)

Someone who lives nearby one of the yards, who saw the horses being loaded and PTS just before it hit social media. I've got no reason to think its not true and most of what they said has now been verified one way or another.


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## dorsetladette (13 November 2019)

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/...escued-gypsy-17250984?utm_source=facebook.com

Just seen this


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## Tiddlypom (13 November 2019)

â€˜The RSPCA have asked anyone who believes they own one of the horses at Whispering Willows Sanctuary to contact info@newc.co.uk or the RSPCA on its inspectorate line on 0300 123 8018 with the relevant microchip/passport details.â€™


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## Five&Two (13 November 2019)

I have to say this is bloody awful and prior to reading through this, I had no real idea about WW. Hillview Farm animal sanctuary don't seem any better, the woman who 'runs' that one claims to have 600 hundred animals over 8 sites around essex


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## meleeka (13 November 2019)

PixPipPop said:



			I have to say this is bloody awful and prior to reading through this, I had no real idea about WW. Hillview Farm animal sanctuary don't seem any better, the woman who 'runs' that one claims to have 600 hundred animals over 8 sites around essex 

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She does at least have staff which WW didnâ€™t have. It very unlikely she did any anything herself with those nails!


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## ester (13 November 2019)

Hillview or Hillside (the latter is a bit further north though)


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## Five&Two (13 November 2019)

ester said:



			Hillview or Hillside (the latter is a bit further north though)
		
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Hillview


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## Five&Two (13 November 2019)

PixPipPop said:



			Hillview
		
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Oh no, so sorry I have got the name entirely wrong. It's Tower Hill stables animal sanctuary, that I suspect something is not quite right about.


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## Leo Walker (13 November 2019)

I've just been told that 9 dead horses were found on one site  It sounds like the situation was much worse than most people imagined. I really hope that shes prosecuted to the full extent of the law both for the abuse and the financial irregularities. How anyone who was involved in this, helped at the yard, defended her and/or donated sleeps at night, I'll never know!


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## ester (13 November 2019)

PixPipPop said:



			Oh no, so sorry I have got the name entirely wrong. It's Tower Hill stables animal sanctuary, that I suspect something is not quite right about.
		
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ahh I did try and find a hill view hence asking (but couldn't find an obvious one in the UK)


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## Amymay (13 November 2019)

Leo Walker said:



			I've just been told that 9 dead horses were found on one site  It sounds like the situation was much worse than most people imagined. I really hope that shes prosecuted to the full extent of the law both for the abuse and the financial irregularities. How anyone who was involved in this, helped at the yard, defended her and/or donated sleeps at night, I'll never know!
		
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How utterly awful ðŸ˜”


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## dorsetladette (14 November 2019)

Its sounds like she is already playing the mental health card (not meaning to offend anyone). I hope authorities see through it or at least investigate it properly (mental health that is)


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## Asha (14 November 2019)

Leo Walker said:



			I've just been told that 9 dead horses were found on one site  It sounds like the situation was much worse than most people imagined. I really hope that shes prosecuted to the full extent of the law both for the abuse and the financial irregularities. How anyone who was involved in this, helped at the yard, defended her and/or donated sleeps at night, I'll never know!
		
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Those poor ponies. Taken from bad situations to even worse . There is no line of defence for this level of abuse. Please keep the updates coming, she has to pay for this.


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## meleeka (14 November 2019)

Iâ€™m not certain this is going to be as dramatic as we think. The RSPCA statement doesnâ€™t say anything about seizing or an investigation, nor does it ask for anyone with information.  This could have been a voluntary surrender, in which case itâ€™s unlikely theyâ€™ll prosecute at all.


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## Zero00000 (14 November 2019)

I understand that maleeka, but I think it will be, reading witness statements who were on site the last few days, breaks my heart.

This has been going on in the background for most of the year.


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## dorsetladette (14 November 2019)

Zero00000 said:



			I understand that maleeka, but I think it will be, reading witness statements who were on site the last few days, breaks my heart.

This has been going on in the background for most of the year.
		
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'witness statements' I didn't think anything had been released yet? (apart from the vague newspaper article last night)


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## Peter7917 (14 November 2019)

Where are these witness statements please?


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## Amymay (14 November 2019)

Peter7917 said:



			Where are these witness statements please?
		
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Yes, what witness statements?


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## Zero00000 (14 November 2019)

Maybe witness statement isn't the right description, but they can be found on a number of the posts on Facebook.

One in particular is the lady who spent the day there trying to save her horse, I think it was on the OAR post.

I didn't mean it to sound like I had more information than anyone else, bad wording on my part.


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## Peter7917 (14 November 2019)

What is oar


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## Dobiegirl (14 November 2019)

https://www.facebook.com/oars123/ 

Some of the WW admins are on there commenting protesting their innocence to people they banned and branded haters when they asked questions on the WW page.


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## scats (14 November 2019)

Do we know what happened to Sandra?  Has she done a runner?


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## Ladydragon (14 November 2019)

dorsetladette said:



			Its sounds like she is already playing the mental health card (not meaning to offend anyone). I hope authorities see through it or at least investigate it properly (mental health that is)
		
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Remarkably similar to the equine disaster outed at Little Mill, Monmouthshire in 2013 with its catalogue of abuse and dead horses


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## Amymay (14 November 2019)

scats said:



			Do we know what happened to Sandra?  Has she done a runner?
		
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Sheâ€™s in Egypt, Blackpool, hospital......  Take your pick ðŸ¤·ðŸ»â€â™€ï¸ðŸ¤·ðŸ»â€â™€ï¸


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## ester (14 November 2019)

I did like the if you believe facebook she's been round the world twice in the last week comment


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## dorsetladette (15 November 2019)

Dobiegirl said:



https://www.facebook.com/oars123/

Some of the WW admins are on there commenting protesting their innocence to people they banned and branded haters when they asked questions on the WW page.
		
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That's a rather upsetting read


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## Rosemary28 (15 November 2019)

The whole thing is pretty upsetting. Such a mess


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## rascal (15 November 2019)

Had them on facebook for a while, did not like what i saw and heard, so deleted them. Such a sad end for some of the supposedly rescued ponies, could not be more pleased this dodgy rescue is  no more.I really hope these people are never allowed near another horse, or any other animals.


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## dree (15 November 2019)

Just looking at the pics of the new batch of foals, you could tell that at least one had serious problems, yet we were told they had all been vet checked.  (Feral, but managed to vet check them all?)  Pics of Marley (or Marlin) were put on the site, and immediately removed.  Marley was handed over to WWS as owner couldn't cope and thought the horse would be safe.  In Jan the horse looked great....in October it looked like a rescue.  Owner "played" it very well, not saying anything until vet check.  The horse was deemed unfit to be moved at that time!!!!  I said that she needed at the very least a good, experienced yard manager because all the foals were in the yard, which looked like a total disgrace and at some places downright dangerous..... while ONE person mucked out the barn...but was shouted down....she knows what she's doing, blah, blah.  No, she didn't and horses suffered because of it.  Why no "lives" now?  Why did the Rspca put a Section 9 on the yard ages ago?  Lots of lies and misdirection by admin, who, by doing this sort of thing, are themselves culpable.


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## ester (15 November 2019)

they were having a lovely time in the fresh air silly.


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## Lammy (15 November 2019)

Gosh Dree youâ€™ve certainly changed your tune. You were one of those defending Sandra to the hilt earlier on in this very post, damning everyone who dared question WWS.

Seemed like those who raised concerns and asked questions were right to.


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## The Fuzzy Furry (15 November 2019)

Lammy said:



			Gosh Dree youâ€™ve certainly changed your tune. You were one of those defending Sandra to the hilt earlier on in this very post, damning everyone who dared question WWS.

Seemed like those who raised concerns and asked questions were right to.
		
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Do I need to unblock Drear or is she just spouting drivel again?


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## Lammy (15 November 2019)

The Fuzzy Furry said:



			Do I need to unblock Drear or is she just spouting drivel again?
		
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Probably not worth it in all honesty. But hereâ€™s the post:
Just looking at the pics of the new batch of foals, you could tell that at least one had serious problems, yet we were told they had all been vet checked. (Feral, but managed to vet check them all?) Pics of Marley (or Marlin) were put on the site, and immediately removed. Marley was handed over to WWS as owner couldn't cope and thought the horse would be safe. In Jan the horse looked great....in October it looked like a rescue. Owner "played" it very well, not saying anything until vet check. The horse was deemed unfit to be moved at that time!!!! I said that she needed at the very least a good, experienced yard manager because all the foals were in the yard, which looked like a total disgrace and at some places downright dangerous..... while ONE person mucked out the barn...but was shouted down....she knows what she's doing, blah, blah. No, she didn't and horses suffered because of it. Why no "lives" now? Why did the Rspca put a Section 9 on the yard ages ago? Lots of lies and misdirection by admin, who, by doing this sort of thing, are themselves culpable.

Which is crazy considering in September according to her the horses were all in great condition and at least Sandra is going out helping and saving foals lives unlike us lot who sit behind our screens moaning!


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## Peter7917 (15 November 2019)

Just read through all the comments from Dree in September. Literally loads of comments saying they looked in good condition, there is no problem, defending WW fiercely. 

Now had the audacity to come on here saying she could tell there was a problem. Good grief.


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## The Fuzzy Furry (15 November 2019)

Thanks Lammy, will leave them on block then as drivelling, again....


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## Velcrobum (1 December 2019)

Anyone any updates on this? Has the owner been found or still AWOL.


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## Amymay (1 December 2019)

Seems to have gone very quiet


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## Velcrobum (1 December 2019)

I agree hence the questions as there were some on the thread who seemed to have local connections hopefully they will update.


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## exracehorse (2 December 2019)

https://www.facebook.com/groups/557348581763452/?ref=share


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## exracehorse (2 December 2019)

Apparently she’s starting up a new whispering willows


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## exracehorse (2 December 2019)

See below


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## Amymay (2 December 2019)

WTAF??


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## Leo Walker (2 December 2019)

Amyway In A Manger said:



			WTAF??
		
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My thoughts exactly!!


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## NLPM (2 December 2019)

Ohh, what fresh hell is this?


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## SatansLittleHelper (2 December 2019)

😱😱😱🤬🤬🤬


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## DirectorFury (2 December 2019)

I can't see that anyone would be daft enough to rent land to her for another 'sanctuary'...?


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## Amymay (2 December 2019)

DirectorFury said:



			I can't see that anyone would be daft enough to rent land to her for another 'sanctuary'...?
		
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No, nor me. I’m hoping it’s some sort of wind up.


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## ester (2 December 2019)

I think someone is just shit stirring.


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## meleeka (2 December 2019)

ester said:



			I think someone is just shit stirring.
		
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Especially with the profile pic of the teeth.


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## ester (2 December 2019)

yup!


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## Loveforhorses (9 December 2019)

I really hope it’s just rumours about her opening another sanctuary!! The state of the horses that have left her care she needs locking up and the owners having to pay vets bills and seeing there horses not being able to walk or hold their weight because they have no energy.


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## rascal (10 December 2019)

Really hope opening that hell hole again IS just a wind up


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## Velcrobum (27 December 2019)

Any one any further information???


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## Leo Walker (27 December 2019)

Sandra has horses again, well some of the original ones are still with her. She is repeatedly setting up fake facebook accounts in an attempt to get attention and try and prove that she is the victim of internet bullying. There was talk of her getting yet more foals. I'm not sure if thats true or not, but she definitely has horses at one of the yards still. TBH I've switched off from it all now. Its in the hands of the authorities and they now need to step up and prosecute her.


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## honetpot (8 January 2020)

So it continues, from today. 
https://www.lincolnshirelive.co.uk/...bpp_xGELhlxGcmJQYEdFBPgd0Pkap7VeDbc2cTcX_xbtA


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## Laafet (8 January 2020)

I was wondering what had been going on, it's all been quiet for a long time.


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## DD (8 January 2020)

https://www.lincolnshirelive.co.uk/...7b-OoYTU21CitzDLOe6WvgvYz7joAlPHYtU0zuUnnP2uY


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## meleeka (8 January 2020)

Downton Panto Dame said:



https://www.lincolnshirelive.co.uk/...7b-OoYTU21CitzDLOe6WvgvYz7joAlPHYtU0zuUnnP2uY

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Blimey. That person just doesn’t know when to give up, clearly


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## Amymay (8 January 2020)

This isn’t Whispering Willows...??


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## Five&Two (8 January 2020)

If anyone ever sees anything about Tower Hill Stables Animal Sanctuary, please will you let me know. The stupid woman who had my youngster from me, handed him over to them and only told me 24hrs before, I had always said I'd have him back if she no longer wanted him or couldn't keep him. He had a few issues that only developed after she took him on and there was no need for him to go somewhere like he has.


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## scats (8 January 2020)

Amymay said:



			This isn’t Whispering Willows...??
		
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I was thinking the same thing.  Although I think Sandra ‘helped’ this sanctuary at one point last time they were raided but as far as I’m aware she has had nothing to with it since.


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## Violet (8 January 2020)

Alternative Animal Sanctuary - Tamara Lloyd
https://www.lincolnshirelive.co.uk/news/local-news/sanctuary-owner-claims-isnt-blame-3717664


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## ester (8 January 2020)

No but she had horses from tamara before the last raid. It's tamara that the court judgement thingy on who was keeping them was about.


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## Elf On A Shelf (8 January 2020)

Violet said:



			Alternative Animal Sanctuary - Tamara Lloyd
https://www.lincolnshirelive.co.uk/news/local-news/sanctuary-owner-claims-isnt-blame-3717664

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So in other words she wants to skip out of the country before the courts can ban her from keeping animals and then gather more animals somewhere else?


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## SaddlePsych'D (8 January 2020)

What a desperate and sad situation.


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## exracehorse (9 January 2020)

Amymay said:



			This isn’t Whispering Willows...??
		
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Looks like another sanctuary


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## ester (9 January 2020)

exracehorse said:



			Looks like another sanctuary
		
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They have connections though that is the point.


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## exracehorse (10 January 2020)

ester said:



			They have connections though that is the point.
		
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Didn’t realise they were connected.  But, where has Sandra gone ?  Heard nothing for months and the truth about WW group has closed.


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## Velcrobum (13 February 2020)

Has anyone any further news about Whispering Willows / Sandra???

Another rescue owner prosecuted: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-51462437


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## popcorn1 (13 February 2020)

Probably got away with it hasn't she. All her merry followers have stopped running their mouths off on here. Disgusting that it was allowed to happen and shocking that horse people fell for it!


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## dorsetladette (13 February 2020)

popcorn1 said:



			Probably got away with it hasn't she. All her merry followers have stopped running their mouths off on here. Disgusting that it was allowed to happen and shocking that horse people fell for it!
		
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I saw a weird 'live' she recorded the other day that someone had shared. I can't find it now but she had some sort of filter on which made her look weird. I couldn't listen to it at the time as I wasn't in a place I could turn the volume up. I'd forgotten about it to be honest until this thread popped back up.


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## Amymay (13 February 2020)

popcorn1 said:



			Probably got away with it hasn't she. All her merry followers have stopped running their mouths off on here. Disgusting that it was allowed to happen and shocking that horse people fell for it!
		
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Cases take months (often years) to come to court, so it’s absolutely not the case that she’s got away with anything.  The cogs of the judiciary turn very slowly.


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## Zero00000 (15 February 2021)

Sandra Stolp was in court this morning, and the update on facebook says - 

ANNOUNCEMENT 
SANDRA STOLP.RECEIVED A 10 YEAR BAN WITH NO RIGHT TO APPEAL. ON TAG FOR 20 WEEKS CANNOT LEAVE HER HOUSE BETWEEN 9PM AND 6AM.
£1000 FINE
£80 court costs.


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## Tiddlypom (15 February 2021)

What were the charges?


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## Chinchilla (15 February 2021)

Is that ALL  she got ?


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## Lipglosspukka (15 February 2021)

A ten year ban is okay. A lifetime ban would have been better. She isn't exactly young is she so hopefully by the time that ten years is up she will be incapable of keeping animals for one reason or another.


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## Zero00000 (15 February 2021)

The only reference I have seen for charges was a post on facebook and may very well be inaccurate but it says theft of Bunny (the collapsed mare in Cardiff City centre) and neglect.

I agree with is that ALL she got!


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## Zero00000 (15 February 2021)

She already has horses on her land, under other people's names she had them within months of those poor animals being seized.


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## Zero00000 (16 February 2021)

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/...&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=wales_swansea


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## Archangel (16 February 2021)

I am literally screaming at the computer

"There has not been a deliberate act to this offending, but something where she lost control in the circumstances."
"This is a case of well intentioned but incompetent care."
""She had good intentions to set up Whispering Willows but got out of her depth."

130 horses.  Lost control?  Well intentioned? Out of her depth?

FFS.

What we all know. Feeding this sort of desperate situation are owners desperate to offload horses who they can no longer keep, too old, too knackered, too mad to ride.  The relief of finding a place that will take them means they drop their horses off, and they can walk away with their problem solved.  For the horse it could just be beginning.

Any sanctuary that can take a horse at the drop of a hat needs looking at very closely and then again very, very, closely.
Any decent place has the brakes firmly on and ask owners to explore all other options, including euthanasia, before horses go on the wait list or just turn people away.

I'm screaming again...

The 54-year-old had set up the rescue centre to follow her dream of looking after horses after inheriting a six-figure sum, rescuing or taking in 137 of them, varying in breed and age.

Follow her dream?  FFS.  54? FFS x 100


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## Quigleyandme (16 February 2021)

Those pictures are horrific. Whatever her intentions she has allowed enormous and prolonged suffering and that is unforgivable.


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## Ambers Echo (16 February 2021)

Leo Walker said:



			Shes getting horse after horse after horse. Refers to them as her babies as if they are her personal pets and is doing all this on rented land with no security. The foals are turned out in someones garden. The lack of basic horse care and knowledge is horrific. Help has been offered from a reputable rescue and the response from the "sanctuary" and supporters is horrific, but its an interesting insight into how their minds work admittedly.

Once you've been around horses and/or rescues for a while you know how this goes. This woman will keep shipping horses in and then out as fast as she can, relying on donations from supporters to fund it all. Eventually she will either over extend herself and an actual rescue will have to go in an clean up the mess, or she will slip up with her sub standard care and an actual rescue will have to go in and clean up them mess. It always ends the same.
		
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Well this was depressingly accurate.


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## honetpot (16 February 2021)

She sounds like a very good con artist, with a good lawyer. As she has no assets, probably no income, we will be picking up the bills, and she will devise another con to get money out of another vulnerable group.


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## ycbm (16 February 2021)

It really isn't like the RSPCA to mount such a weak and incompetent prosecution,  I'd like to know the full story of why their lawyer didn't push for a harder penalty  
.


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## Lipglosspukka (16 February 2021)

She's a manipulative witch. Probably fed everyone another pack of lies saying she's suicidal or something.


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## ester (16 February 2021)

ycbm said:



			It really isn't like the RSPCA to mount such a weak and incompetent prosecution,  I'd like to know the full story of why their lawyer didn't push for a harder penalty  
.
		
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That's what I thought, they are usually quite keen to suggest that things are deliberate when they have actually lost control/are not coping.


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## Kaylum (16 February 2021)

Isn't that the standard sentence for animal cruelty and reason why people are asking for harsher sentences for first time offences.


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## ycbm (16 February 2021)

Kaylum said:



			Isn't that the standard sentence for animal cruelty and reason why people are asking for harsher sentences for first time offences.
		
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No,  not at all.  She could have got a very long period of unpaid work,  a much longer and more onerous tagged curfew, a very big fine,  or prison,  suspended  or otherwise. 

It's a pathetic sentence.


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## Mule (17 February 2021)

Is there any regulation on animal sanctuaries or can anyone set one up? I think they may attract animal hoarders.


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## Tiddlypom (17 February 2021)

Mule said:



			Is there any regulation on animal sanctuaries or can anyone set one up? I think they may attract animal hoarders.
		
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Good point.

Is there any downside to an equine rescue becoming a member of NEWC? A rescue which is not a member of NEWC was getting very aerated yesterday on FB about this, and its supporters were piling in to say how well run it was, etc.

_TAKE NOTE!
This sanctuary may not be a NEWC member  but we run to high selfregulation and care standards. This sanctuary is no Whispering Willows. I find the implied suggestion, in a report out today, insulting that if a sanctuary is not part of NEWC then they are no good. Not true_


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## Kaylum (17 February 2021)

Mule said:



			Is there any regulation on animal sanctuaries or can anyone set one up? I think they may attract animal hoarders.
		
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No only voluntary if they join NEWC


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## Kaylum (17 February 2021)

Tiddlypom said:



			Good point.

Is there any downside to an equine rescue becoming a member of NEWC? A rescue which is not a member of NEWC was getting very aerated yesterday on FB about this, and its supporters were piling in to say how well run it was, etc.

_TAKE NOTE!
This sanctuary may not be a NEWC member  but we run to high selfregulation and care standards. This sanctuary is no Whispering Willows. I find the implied suggestion, in a report out today, insulting that if a sanctuary is not part of NEWC then they are no good. Not true_

Click to expand...

It's their choice to join or not but they have to maintain high standards to keep their membership. They might not have the facilities to meet all the requirements.


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## suestowford (17 February 2021)

I thought some of you might like to read an update on some of the colts taken from Whispering Willows, from the Mare & Foal Sanctuary.
http://www.mareandfoal.org/sanctuar...IyHfRo21z5Tp0-t7WwRZov_9LtUmCPPExsnC92o74Q5tg


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