# Bunny hopping/changing legs behind in canter?



## Ginn (24 October 2011)

Firstly saddle checked ~3 weeks ago (and problem is shown when not under saddle), saw vet 1 week ago and will be having a follow up i a week's time (different problem but flagged up to vet who was not concerned for the moment due to no heat/swelling/lameness in W+T), teeth do need doing (and will be done within next few weeks - needs to be coordinated with vet and clipping lady for sedation purposes), back is fine. 

Horse is completely sound in walk and trot on both reins. Is coming back into work so lacks strength and suppleness.

Lunged under saddle with roller and loosely fitted side-reins to headcollar. In canter on left rein everything hunky dorey but horse is more balanced on this rein and was also more settled. On right rein, if settled, all ok though tendancy to fall in through shoulder and bend to outside causing a lack of straighness. If slightly "oomphy" horse rushes in canter and bunny hops or tries to change legs behind - as if trying to go faster than balance, direction of bend and size of circle will allow for level of strength and training. Horse is shod and was being lunged on "greasy" grass. 

Would you put this down to lack of balance, suppleness, strength and schooling coupled with a weakness on that rein and slippy ground conditions, given total soundness in W+T even on small circle, and that on a large circle in a steady, calm, slow canter on rein of concern no obvious problem - only as horse accelerates?

Or would you be worried?


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## Farma (24 October 2011)

How old is the horse?


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## Ginn (24 October 2011)

Horse is 6


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## Farma (24 October 2011)

How loose are the side reins? What happens if he is in an outline and on the bit?


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## Ginn (24 October 2011)

Side reins fixed to sides and are elasticated. Horse falls onto forehand in canter if shortened to place in outline, and although they do slow the speed if horse rushes doesn't seem to affect/prevent odd hind leg movement if it happens. In many ways horse better when looser as able to balance better but doesn't stop problem - its as though both hinds come to the ground within a second of each other. As said, horse doesn't always do it and better when calm and settled.

Will try and find a vid on youtube...


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## dafthoss (24 October 2011)

Mine used to do it when he was that age. It was his way of trying to get out of work he found hard, his canter has always been the weakest pace so his little pony brain worked out that was a way to get out of it. Admittedly I didnt help by putting him back to trot for a few strides then asking again as it was exactaly what he wanted but then I had a lesson and instructor told me to stop being so soft on him and carry on cantering. Less than a week later he stopped doing it and hasnt since and before he went on his break his canter was starting to feel really grown up.


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## cellie (24 October 2011)

My horse was  six when I bought her and very anxious sensitive type.Every time  I asked for contact or if she didnt understand command she would change her  legs.My mares basic  ground work had been missed,with help of  great instructor  who rode her for several sessions and   lessons she is  now settled and working really well .I know have  her balanced  and working properly and she is  fabulous to ride.Her sj  has improved  as well no skipping on corners anymore.Do you have instructor ?


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## Ginn (24 October 2011)

OK, this vid is very similar to what is happening (less the bucks and not quite as fast!).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThIGUrNlzds&feature=fvsr

Will share my opinion after some more responses but interested in other's views before commenting.


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## lucemoose (24 October 2011)

i have known lots of mare do this on lunge- like both their hinds hit the ground simultaneously. often happens during seasons - so mild discomfort, or when they are un settled and then once they work well problem goes


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## Ginn (24 October 2011)

Dafthoss - that is interesting as horse is worse at end of lunge session (same thing 2 days running) rather than at beginning of session (after warm up).


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## cellie (24 October 2011)

lucemoose said:



			i have known lots of mare do this on lunge- like both their hinds hit the ground simultaneously. often happens during seasons - so mild discomfort, or when they are un settled and then once they work well problem goes
		
Click to expand...

Thats interesting for me too as my mare had marble fitted  two years ago and has improved overall with lessons and  general way of going,she  had  big problems  with behaviour.


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## juliap (24 October 2011)

My horse was bunny hopping & going off on the wrong lead when he wasn't right earlier this year. He was never lame in the sense that he was always level but resisted going forward & when lunged with the vet was bunny hopping or disunited.

Back was checked and no heat swelling anywhere on legs.

We never did establish what was wrong - bone scan came back -ve but some time off & a slow build up back into full work resolved it, I suspect it was muscular.

Possibly some discomfort somewhere esp if only on one rein.


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## coss (24 October 2011)

would i be worried? - not necessarily but depends on the horse...
is this a new problem?
My pony used to go disunited to do a canter/trot transition - would literally throw himself disunited (and did this in the field loose, playing with field mates so naturally chose it rather than rider/equipment) it took a lot of suppling work - spirals, leg yielding, shoulder in/out, haunches in/out to strengthen and supple him and to get him more on the aids so that i could stop him throwing his back end out - eventually it stopped although it comes back when he's tense, when tense he doesn't move through his back and as such the back legs can't work as efficiently and so breaking canter and going disunited can happen (though still less often than it was - even on the lunge )
So his was age/breed/coldback/tension issue...

Another horse i ride is a friend's horse. Her canter was one of her best paces but she had a fall in the field and according to a chiropractor "popped" a hip out, and said chiro "popped" it back in - how true this is i'm not sure for several reasons that don't belong here - so there is the possibility that she had jarred something  she began cantering haunches in and on trying to correct she would do as you describe, disunite and/or the back legs would come together rather than being in the 3-beat rhythm. She was given time off- had a foal etc and on a dental check (she'd had yearly checks but a different dentist on this occasion) found a slab fracture - so a lot of pain in the mouth, how much this contributed to her way of going is unknown (problem over too long a time scale) - however, if that had been there at the time of the canter issue, the effect of the rein would have caused more pain in the mouth. As a result she carries a lot of tension in her jaw and when i started riding her she would sometimes come together with the back legs in canter, however she'd rarely disunite (possibly partly as i'm used to holding a canter true due to my own pony). lots of strengthening work and working on her softness in her jaw and tension (still a work in progress) - she canters straighter and no long has the canter issues as described, if she threatens to do it i push her on and really ride the canter so she can't use it to get out of working....

So yes - there could be cause for concern.. or it could be age related, you'd only want to push them on through it if you could trust they'd have secure footing so as not to lose balance further. Other tacts are to hold the canter together more - all depends on the horse though...


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## dafthoss (24 October 2011)

He did it when I was asking for less run and trying to get him sitting and taking his time rather than running round leaning in like a motorbike as fast as he could . He was perfectly sound in all paces but would do it more on his weaker rein, he would also change in front some times a few strides later once he learned that it didnt stop the work and made it harder then he realised that it was best to stay on the right leg. But as I say that was around a year ago now and he hasnt done it since. 

Its obviously hard to know if its the same without seeing it but it was just another of his evasions that he came up with


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## kerilli (24 October 2011)

i'd put 99% of it down to the slippery ground and the fact that he's shod, tbh. i bet if you lunged him on a secure surface he would move totally differently. it sounds as if he went into an extremely defensive way of moving to try to stop himself from slipping. ime most horses are a lot better balanced on the left rein, they bend that way more naturally and find everything easier.


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## charlie76 (24 October 2011)

Our horse Was like this. Turned out To be sacroilac pain an psd in both hind leg's.  Never looked lame as it was so subltle and bi lateral


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## elsiex (25 October 2011)

Hate to worry you but my mare has had 6 months of investigations due to this exact behaviour.

I never once thought she was lame, however she started cantering with her quarters in and just wanting to tear off around the school. When I asked her to sit (very sensitive in the mouth) and wait she would bunny hop, change legs behind, which almost felt like a buck. She didn't always do it, but would do it on the lunge as well.

I have been through hell with three different vets telling me there is nothing wrong with my horse! Due to my persistence, and fighting tooth and nail for a referral, she has just come back from the RVC with bilateral lameness (hence why she looked sound!!), bone spavin, poss ringbone, kissing spines.

I would get it vet checked if I were you. I went through months of hell!


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## Tnavas (25 October 2011)

Do you have a lunge cavesson? You will have far more control and effect on the shape of the horse if you use a lunge cavesson as you have the liine to the front of the nose - wherever the nose goes the rest follows.

Lunging from a headcollar allows the horse to turn its head to the outside so you develop wrong bend.

Try a lunge cavesson, fit side reins either to the bit ring or to the outside rings on the cavesson.

Use your whip as if it were your inside leg, just behind the elbow and use your lunge line as you would your outside rein, use half halts to encourage balance to improve. Make sure that you send the horse forward.

You say the back is OK - did the vet check it or did you get a chiro out. Bunny hopping and cantering disunited is often a sign of back soreness.


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## Winklepoker (25 October 2011)

I would say a combination of the surface being too deep, the horse being too unbalanced and a slightly locking stifle on the right hind.


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## Ginn (25 October 2011)

Thanks for all the replies. I wanted to hear what others had to say before introducing my opinion.

Having seen the horse loose in the field this hasn't been a problem and infact horse is quite happy to throw some mores and leap around in its usual way (a very playful monkey at the best of times) which i suspect it would find more difficult if there was anything other than a tweaked muscle. I do stand to be corrected though.

If it was bilaterally lame then would expect the same response on BOTH canter reins, which isn't the case, leading me to think it is a balance issue (horse is much stronger and more balanced on other rein).

If it was lameness on one leg then would expect lameness in W+T which is not the case.

Asked vet to take a look at back when discussing problem - all was OK, slightly tight in hamstrings but as horse 1) behaves like a loony in field and 2) is coming back into work, was deemed to be as expected and no real cause for concern - lots of stretching with decent warmup/cool down and keep an eye. Back specialist also looked at it and same conclusion - some tension but no more than to be expected with level of training and msucle development. Deffo no soreness.

Horse ridden (and cantered) under saddle on grass 4 days prior to 1st lunge sesson and was fine. Needs to be more through and activate outside hind in the canter and in general needs to learn to sit more behind but this horse has had a fair bit of time out of work an as above lacks strength and balance so am currently attributing this as the cause. Admittedly only cantered out of short side, down long/across diagonal, coming back to trot before next bend due to this so may well exhibit same problem on a 20m circle but felt unfair to ask this of horse on a slippy, grassy field with current level of balance.

Given 3 days off (had done 4 days work - hack, faster hack (again no probs), slower hack, school (above session)) then 2 days of lunge work and problem manifested only towards end of session where horse was tired and spooking at gale force winds. Was only meant to be 1/4 of a circle but horse had other ideas.

Re lunging of headcollar - horse has ALWAYS been totally anti pressure around nose and absolutely will not work in lunge cavesson due to its tightness around nose. Happy enough in headcollar with lungeline clipped to side (rather than ring for leadrope) to help avoid problem mentioned above, though I agree it is non-ideal. Have also considered 2 reins but horse tends to overbend. Horse is incredibly tricky in mouth (always has been - purely character) hence being very cautious about what contact goes to bit when lunging as it can create problems when ridden. In W+T horse is lovely, deffo forwards and working nicely over back.

My thinking is the ground is horrid (hard base, slippy top, trippy length of grass) but its all we currently have and horse is deffo more unbalanced on R rein so this is probably main factor.

Plan to work with I *think* should be build up strength, suppleness and balance on lunge in W+T and slowly introduce a few trans to canter for 3-4 strides once this has improved, only on a big, big circle and when ground isn't too bad (i.e. not after recent rainfall with slippy ground). Don't push horse through it as balance issue and not on stable surface. Under saddle stick to what I'm doing (short bursts on straight, building up, lots of transitions) and build up this way too. If no better/worse when vet up in 10 days have a rethink. But not to worry for immediate future as mostly easily explained???


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## Rowreach (25 October 2011)

I had something similar with my 6yo mare - bred by me, backed by me as a 4yo and produced by me, so I know her entire history and training.  She was fine in walk and trot (marginally better on the right rein) and fine in canter on the left rein, but on the right rein was stiffer, quicker, reluctant to go into the outside rein and would frequently change behind.  I train regularly with a FBHS and an I and both said they thought there was nothing wrong other than a weakness and gave me exercises to work through in an attempt to resolve it.

I went to a training camp at the end of July and I wasn't happy, so I spoke to my vet and took her to him for a work up, and sure enough he found the problem.  She presented no lameness or even stiffness, but as a rider I was finding it difficult to sit on her right hind, and knowing her as a truly lovely horse who would do anything she could for me, I was sure there was an issue there somewhere.

Vet diagnosed an SI injury which had been there some time (only thing I can think is she had an incident in a trailer the first week she was backed).  She had SI injections, a few weeks off, then a lungeing programme before reintroducing ridden work.  She is a totally different horse, straighter, lighter, more balanced, and producing some fabulous work for me 

She has made me realise that I should never ignore my instincts even when someone far more qualified than me tells me there's nothing to worry about - she's been trying to tell me something for 2 years and I couldn't quite hear what she was saying   Perhaps if she'd bucked me off every time I got on I'd have paid more attention


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## BeckyD (25 October 2011)

QR: I had a similar situation and it turned out to be sacroiliac pain and bilateral PSD.  After treatment for both he never did it again.  Plus the canter was much more uphill and powerful.  Don't mean to be the bearer of gloom, sorry!

ETS:  he could throw some real shapes around the field and gallop round until he was a sweaty puddle, but whilst suffering from his injury, you could definitely see that something wasn't right, so if your horse looks OK in the field as you say, then that's got to be good news!


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## Ginn (25 October 2011)

Thanks both. 

As I said earlier I would be very suprised if it was a bilateral lameness (e.g. caused through bilateral PDS) as it is only on the one rein - I would expect similar issues (though perhaps not to the same extent?) on the other rein if this was the case. Likewise, if there was a lameness/issue with the one leg then I would expect to see signs in W+T which there aren't. Hence currently working on the assumption that this is not a cause for concern.

I do agree that she could have a SI tweak but more likely to be muscular as only very recent problem and not affecting other areas of work. Therefore I'm thinking that avoiding activities which exaserbate this, e.g. trying to canter a 20m circle on slippy ground, and encouraging her to stretch and work in a soft, loose frame, building up strength and suppleness, keeping work easy and considering what to do with ground conditions would be the best way to go for the moment?

Obviously should there be no improvement/deterioration then would have things properly investigated but am thinking this is jumping the gun for the moment due to the above described reasons. 

Good to see that the opinions generally suggest this as a course of action with a *but be aware that this could also be the cause so don't completely ignore* experiences too.


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## mik (25 October 2011)

I agree, I would canter only on a good surface and not in circles until suppleness in the trot had built up.  Use lots of loosening exercises in trot especially leg yields and shoulder fore, especially in large areas, and when the leg yield is easier in trot i would start to use it in canter, very little but enough to encourage stretching.I would also build up the work very gradually and be careful not to tire the horse or force any movements when the muscles are tense.
I think if it was my horse I would have a physio come and see it regularly to monitor muscle growth etc. (and to loosen any tight bits!)


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## Ginn (25 October 2011)

Very lucky in that have a physio around to take a look most weekend  

Think you managed to say what I was trying to far more eloquently than I did too!


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## ihatework (25 October 2011)

I'd be concerned and keeping an eye but not rushing out to do anything major at this point. Do be aware that the symptoms you describe are classic hock and/or sacro pain symptoms, an no horses are not always obviously lame from it.

From that video clip I would say the ground would have a huge influencing factor and I would strongly recommend you do not lunge on that surface at all - if you don't have a lame horse now then you might in the future by lunging on that, especially given her reaction.


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## Ginn (25 October 2011)

Video clip is not of my horse - merely used to demonstrate what I was trying to describe. Difference was horse was not going as fast, not bucking and pulled up pretty quick because I was not prepared to push on with that movement and lack of balance on a grass field.

Do agree that it is something to watch out for and *could* be something more sinister but equally my (inside my head debate) was whether I was right to be worried and if so whether it should be wrt watching carefully and working on the balance sensibly, working within limitations of surface, or whether I should have the horse booked in a full work up next week without giving benefit of doubt, time and carefully schooling first. Hence the post to see what other responses were before sharing my own judgement and conclusion - which was careful, educated and informed one despite the _I care about my horse so am I wrong with this conclusion_ niggle.

Unfortunately some of us don't have the luxury of a nice surface, flexi hours etc so in order to keep horse in work over winter months (baring in mind I leave for work at 7am and rarely get home before 7pm) is to work in the field 2-3 times/week and hack at weekends. Add to that... horses by their nature are adapted to work on grass/natural terrains rather than artifical surfaces and no, I won't work my horse in crappy or deep arena but I do expect the ability to walk, trot and canter on grass (and they manage it well enough when turned out on the stuff). Where I do make an educated judgement is what I ask when working a horse on it i.e. size and gait of circles etc. 

But then it is always useful to have a detached perspective


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## debsflo (25 October 2011)

charlie76 said:



			Our horse Was like this. Turned out To be sacroilac pain an psd in both hind leg's.  Never looked lame as it was so subltle and bi lateral
		
Click to expand...

^^^^^  

exactly this with my mare..


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## Ginn (25 October 2011)

For those of you who have had hock/suspensory/SI problems...

Did you notice any difference if the horse was buted up?

Horse in question (and I realise I should have said sooner!) started a 5day course of Bute on Tues for unrelated treatment - 2 sachets, twice a day, for 5 days. Had Tues, Wed, Thurs and Fri off then lunged Sat and yesterday. No real difference between 2 sessions.

To me this says that it is *unlikely* to be pain/discomfort related - if it is worse this week now bute finished then that may suggest otherwise - but having no experience of the above injuries/strains etc would be interested to hear other's views.

Charlie/Debsflo  - in addition to the above, in your experience did it only affect 1 canter lead or both and was there any detectable lameness in W+T?


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## mik (25 October 2011)

I know of a few cases of sacro injury, serious, that were manifested on on side and it takes proper progressive nerve blocking to locate the actual area.
From all that you have said, check her ovaries for cysts and keep a good physio on hand. Have a chat with the vet if you feel nerve blocks would help you locate a problem. If you have a nagging doubt then follow you instincts. She is your horse.


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## CBAnglo (25 October 2011)

My horse did the same thing - was sacroiliac ligament strain.  He is fine in W+T, but as soon as the canter work is introduced he breaks down again after about 3 or 4 weeks (and this is him being lunged twice a week for 20 mins and ridden twice a week for about 40 mins each session).  He is happy to run about in the field and go stupid.

It is more noticeable on the downward transitions where he puts in a little extra step with the hind leg and so changes the leg.

Did the vet do a high flexion test on the hind legs?  This normally shows up a SI issue straight away, although I can normally tell as you will see a very definite shape of the hindquarters (either one side or both).


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## Ginn (25 October 2011)

Thanks CBAnglo - did your horse do it on both reins or just the one? Horse has been flexioned - no probs there. Out of interest what was diagnosis method for yours and subsequent treatment?

Have to say I am very sceptical about going "hunting" for problems - I know full well that if I took 100 horses of completely unknown history and no prior assessment (e.g. flexions, soundness assessment etc) and went looking to see if there was anything wrong, more than 80% would flag something up. For example approx 80% of horses over the age of 6 will have some evidence of arthritis in the fetlock joint). However, horse owners don't routinely have their horses screened when completely healthy and sound so the skill is in identifying whether what is flagged up is causing a problem or normal for the horse (obviously in some cases this is easier to do than others!). 

To have a major SI joint issue would be a concern, to have some soft tissue inflammation and tension less so. I dare say the majority of horses would flag up the latter to some degree if it was looked for, and the former would most likely present very clear symptoms. I would also expect, in either case, an improvement on strong painkillers such as bute. 

Head is being far to academic and in turn is confuzzling itself!


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## Rowreach (25 October 2011)

Ginn, my mare showed no signs of lameness or being unlevel, was only "skipping" and changing behind when cantering on the right rein, was sound on flexion, and good in walk and trot both reins though slightly better on the right rein, which led me to suspect (and I was right) that the issue was high up left hind (SI).  The only sign of anything else being out of true was when OH (farrier) commented that she seemed to be using her right fore more than the left (so on that diagonal).  Since her diagnosis and treatment her fronts have evened up again, and her bum has expanded  And her work has improved x100.


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## CBAnglo (25 October 2011)

Mine usually does it only one 1 rein - the right one, where he also struggles to bend and flex to the right, as he has corresponding tension in his poll from his pelvis being unlevel.  If he is really bad/coming back into work then he does it on both legs initially but then reverts back to only doing it on the right rein unless very fit.

He was diagnosed on a flexion test (but then at the time his pelvis was very unlevel, it was about an inch lower on one side and he could not stand square).

It really depends on what state he is in physically.  When he is at his peak, and I have managed to get him supple on both reins, you cannot tell he has any issues as the muscles in the hindquarters are even and he is level behind in both W + T.  In the canter, he is fine on the left, on the right we have some reistence and some turning to the outside rein when he will go off the wrong leg until I have worked that side sufficiently for him to be able to bring his hind leg more underneath him or I keep a very strong bend and help him more with my inside leg.  This is both on the lunge and under saddle.  However, he relies on his topline a lot to keep this all together, so if he is allowed time off work for whatever reason, he then disunites behind in the canter and hops on the right rein in the downward transition (the extra step/turn out routine).  He normally has also had Mctimony chiro every 6-8 weeks at this point to release any tension.  The treatment period varies and he can go up to 3 months without a treatment (unless he has broken down again).

When he strains the ligament again, he drags the toe of the right hind leg, sometimes both, and is reluctant to lift the leg (farrier cannot get back shoes on him at this point).  Bute/painkillers do not make any difference in performance, but they take the edge off the pain for him.  Time off makes no difference and he is worse if you try to work through it.  At that point he has chiro again and then a period of time off work (depending on the level of strain - anything from 4 days to 4 months over the last 5 yrs) and then he is brought back into work by lunging for 6 weeks, in walk and trot, introducing pole work/canter  after 2-3 wks depending on how he is going, and then we start the ridden work at the end of a lunging session, building up from 5 mins of walk to 40 mins of W + T.  Then, if I am feeling brave we attempt to bring some canter work in - this usually results in him breaking down, he used to last about 6 months, but just very recently he broke down after 4 wks of canter work under saddle (was cantering happily on the lunge for 8 weeks with only very minor switching behind, always corrected but he did through in the odd little extra step on downward transitions unless I kept a very string strong inside bend thus making it impossible for him to switch).

It progressively gets worse - he used to be ridden 5 times a week and this slowly had to be reduced over the last 5 yrs until now he is only ridden twice a week but he is lunged 2-3 times a week to keep the topline.  This is a chronic injury and affects the ligament, not the joint so vet said there was very little I could do except try to keep topline there.  He doesnt jump and vet advised he didnt think he would even be able to canter as his injury is quite severe (he was a rescue case - he sustained this injury in previous sj home and they dumped him at a dealer in Dartford, Kent).  He is worse when he is out of work, he needs topline to try and keep the front end attached to the back end!

I am not saying your horse has a SI, or any, problem.  However, IME if the horse persistently changes behind in canter (and it is not just that it has struck off on the wrong leg, havent got the correct bend) then I would suspect that there is a mechanical issue involved.  Young horses will tend to go on the correct leg provided they have the correct bend (even if you have to ask for a very exaggerated bend so they get the idea) or get the idea quickly when you stop and ask again.  If it is a case of poor footing/loss of balance, again I would not expect this to be a persistent changing behind.  I think you mentioned that you only had a very slippery surface to lunge on - is they are possibility that you could take him to a school to see if he would go better on a better surface?   

Incidentally, I only lunge in a bungee rein to encourage inside bend and once he is re-established on the lunge, I dont lunge with anything.  I also lunge off the bridle.

I agree, some unscrupulous vets are more than happy to go hunting for something where there is nothing, provided you have insurance!


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## Ginn (25 October 2011)

Rowreach - ta muchly. All shoes/feet wearing equally and the bunny hops (more that then changes as there is very little time difference between hinds hitting ground - the changes only seem to occur occasionally) have only happened on lunge, not under saddle, and only at end of lunge session. I suspect there is a muscular niggle in the SI region but I also suspect this is true for most horses. Will keep a very close eye though and very grateful for you sharing your experience. Definitely something to consider if no improvement or deterioration, especially as horse is definitely less straight on the right rein (and always has been) - I will quiz vet again when he is up in next few weeks but I am also aware that if you asked me to perform pretty much any task with my left hand I would be rubbish at it (and is probably a contributing factor to her weaknesses!) and crooked so am also prepared to work on developing strength and coordination on horse's weaker side as this would be a recommendation anyway. 

CBAnglo - sounds like your lad has had a tough old time! As I've already said, this is a problem which has manifested only twice on 2 consectutive lunging sessions towards the end on less than ideal ground, with an unbalanced horse. Undersaddle and prior to this week there has been nothing of concern, other than some lack of balance resulting in straightness issues. Does sound like, as in your case strength and suppleness is a major contributing factor (though I fully appreciated for you it is more complex). I *think* the disuniting (and its is not a very clear disunite) is more due to the horse putting both hinds down together/bringing the inside hind down very quickly after and  the outside, not really stepping under with either correctly, and *always* followed a slip (due to lack of balance) which I suspect is also largely surface based - on a large (30m) circle, out of a very nice, steady, relaxed trot it does not occur and I have a normal canter, albeit one needing work! Where we had the odd movement was the result of horse falling into canter and rushing forward, falling on the forehand, on a ~20m circle (they were not necessarily asked for! That will teach me to work in a howling gale) BUT they were sufficient for me to come on here and question it. 

Hmmm. It's probably also a bit of chicken and egg - one side is likely to be tenser/weaker/sorer as horse isn't equally strong, balanced and supple on both reins, but is the latter creating the soreness or is the soreness and weakness the result of a tweak/niggle/more sinister issue.... I suspect, without spending £££ (possibly unnessarily) time and monitoring will reveal the answer! 

Of course it is also entirely possible that I am over analysing this but when I air it with those who know me and horse well I am told I am being a worrier unnecessarily, hence sharing it on here to gain a wider perpective and work through exactly what is happening in my over active brain!


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## mik (25 October 2011)

Well best of luck, you have a wealth of knowledge given here and know what to look out for, I hope all goes really well for you!


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## Ginn (25 October 2011)

Thanks Mik - re: ovaries - could well be an issue in that she is permenantly on Regumate due to a suspected build up of follicles on her ovaries, could be she is feeling a little sensitive/sore with the changing seasons (this is the first year she hasn't had a holiday this year due to hormonal behaviour - thank god for The Wonder Drug  ) even though *in theory* her hormones should be flat lined. I suppose if she's sensitive in that area and carrying a little tension from a muscle strain then that won't be helping.

And you are right - lots of useful info for me to refer back to if I continue to suspect a niggle that is more than the possible contributing factors that are not injury/strain related - I am very grateful to all who have shared their thoughts and experiences and helped me clarify (in my own mind - sometimes having to explain things as the need arises helps as trying to get it all down in an OP fails miserably!) as well as giving me other things to think about and be aware of.


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## CBAnglo (25 October 2011)

Ginn said:



			I *think* the disuniting (and its is not a very clear disunite) is more due to the horse putting both hinds down together/bringing the inside hind down very quickly after and  the outside, not really stepping under with either correctly, and *always* followed a slip (due to lack of balance) which I suspect is also largely surface based - on a large (30m) circle, out of a very nice, steady, relaxed trot it does not occur and I have a normal canter, albeit one needing work! Where we had the odd movement was the result of horse falling into canter and rushing forward, falling on the forehand, on a ~20m circle (they were not necessarily asked for! That will teach me to work in a howling gale) BUT they were sufficient for me to come on here and question it.
		
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This is what mine does - its like an extra little step/hop so that he is on the wrong leg in the downward transition.  However, he will do this when he is experiencing issues with the ligament and it is persistent.  If yours has only hopped a couple of times in only 2 sessions, then it is different.  Cantering on a 20m circle in a balanced way is going to be tough on a horse coming back into work - if you let them motorbike around on the forehand I think they can pretty much do anything.  However it sounds as though yours was slipping and just put the leg down to keep balance - that is pretty normal for any horse and is just instinct.  I think you would need to see this persistently happening to determine if there was a problem.

Maybe concentrate on only cantering out on hacks in straight line, asking for canter on the weak leg to build up that side.  On the lunge you could do lots of walk and trot, over poles, to really get the hind leg active and improve balance then after a couple of weeks try cantering on the lunge on a large circle.  Maybe you could also see if you can hire a school somewhere and see how he works on a surface?  Also, get someone to video it - I find it so useful to watch from the outside and behind when I am lunging.

You might also try some in-hand work - I find doing 5-10 mins of leg crossing before and after lunging loosens them up so much more and if he is reluctant to step over with the gammy leg then I can alter the work to deal with that.  My horses have been retrained to classical (portugese methods) so I automatically do 5-10 mins of in hand work before I ride/lunge anything now and you can tell so much from in hand work how the horse will ride!


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## foxy (25 October 2011)

Sounds similar to mine, he was difficult on the one rein but fine on the other. He was  eventually found to have issues with his sacro-illiac and was treated, I bought him back into work slowly and spent time building him up. I then had him shod on his hinds as his work had increased and he went very lame. He has now been diagnosed with chronic DJD in his hocks. The point here is that he was sound until he was shod behind, so just because your horse is sound it doesn't mean there is not a problem.


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## Rowreach (25 October 2011)

Ginn, I have the huge advantage of a fantastic vet who listens to me and doesn't overcharge   It's not the first horse I've taken to him after tearing my hair out and exhausting my brain cells over something that doesn't really manifest itself, described to him what I am seeing/feeling and he takes it from there and I get a diagnosis and treatment for a very reasonable amount


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