# New trailer law



## perfect11s (20 November 2011)

Just great!!! now you need an opperators licence as well as a tachograph  if you use a trailer in conection with a bussiness  this is EU law from our masters in brussels it applys if the combination is over 3.5 ton and  comes into affect on dec 4  ....


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## Piglet (20 November 2011)

Bly Brussels, why do we have to do EVERYTHING they say?


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## FairyLights (20 November 2011)

I might not be popular but i agree with this. Its to prevent people driving for hours and hours each week,getting tired and causing road accidents. My DH is a lorry driver and he has to keep to the law ,why should a trailer and car be any different if its being used for haulage?


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## marmalade76 (20 November 2011)

Will that apply to farmers?


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## skye_and_i (20 November 2011)

its not as simple as that, if i can link a discussion on the subject from an arb forum i belong too then the guys on there have looked in to it considerably


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## skye_and_i (20 November 2011)

not sure if this will work and you'll have to skip the bits of moaning drivel 

http://arbtalk.co.uk/forum/general-chat/35816-abolition-small-trailer-exemption-dec-4th-2011-a.html


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## DragonSlayer (20 November 2011)

If you skip right to the end, seems everyone is happy and we need not worry, so I don't think we need to panic yet....!


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## ROG (20 November 2011)

http://fordtransit.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=97014


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## The Fuzzy Furry (20 November 2011)

Got this via email today:

As from the 4th December ANY vehicle towing a trailer for hire or reward (a driver in 1999 was convicted after admitted his mate bought him a pint!!!) so a gardener, tree surgeon, builder, motor sales etc who's combined weight exceeds 3,500kgs (laden or un-laden) will need a **HEAVY GOODS VEHICLE OPERATORS LICENCE** along with the numerous rules that go with it:



Off road parking
6wk maintenance check by a VAT reg garage.
 Have an International CPC (certificate of professional competence) (operator not driver cpc)
 Be or nominate a transport manager with an International CPC (or pay somebody who has one!)
 Have instantly available at all times, 9,000 euro's 24/7 which is checkable by the Traffic Commissioner.
 Apply every 12mth for a new licence (was 5yr)
  Plus many more.

Can you afford these new changes as well as rising fuel costs so therefore as of the 4th Dec many will be out of their job or closing a business
What happens to those thousands of other drivers who are unaware of the changes, the max fine is £5k

This apparently is to bring us in line with the rest of the EU!!


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## skye_and_i (20 November 2011)

The Fuzzy Furry said:



			Got this via email today:

As from the 4th December ANY vehicle towing a trailer for hire or reward (a driver in 1999 was convicted after admitted his mate bought him a pint!!!) so a gardener, tree surgeon, builder, motor sales etc who's combined weight exceeds 3,500kgs (laden or un-laden) will need a **HEAVY GOODS VEHICLE OPERATORS LICENCE** along with the numerous rules that go with it:



Off road parking
6wk maintenance check by a VAT reg garage.
 Have an International CPC (certificate of professional competence) (operator not driver cpc)
 Be or nominate a transport manager with an International CPC (or pay somebody who has one!)
 Have instantly available at all times, 9,000 euro's 24/7 which is checkable by the Traffic Commissioner.
 Apply every 12mth for a new licence (was 5yr)
  Plus many more.

Can you afford these new changes as well as rising fuel costs so therefore as of the 4th Dec many will be out of their job or closing a business
What happens to those thousands of other drivers who are unaware of the changes, the max fine is £5k

This apparently is to bring us in line with the rest of the EU!!  

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DONT PANIC PEOPLE!! this is not the case, there are many exceptions ect and its not that black and white. Yes alot of peolpe should be running tachographs if train weights over 3.5 tons and for hire and reward but the whole operators licence wont affect the every day joe bloggs!


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## perfect11s (20 November 2011)

Horsesforever1 said:



			I might not be popular but i agree with this. Its to prevent people driving for hours and hours each week,getting tired and causing road accidents. My DH is a lorry driver and he has to keep to the law ,why should a trailer and car be any different if its being used for haulage?
		
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 Great so there will never be any accidents  now... yippee!!!!!


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## perfect11s (20 November 2011)

skye_and_i said:



			DONT PANIC PEOPLE!! this is not the case, there are many exceptions ect and its not that black and white. Yes alot of peolpe should be running tachographs if train weights over 3.5 tons and for hire and reward but the whole operators licence wont affect the every day joe bloggs!
		
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 not private people but if you transport horses as a bussiness or are a sponsored rider , breeder, transport and show other peoples horses for payment  etc.....????


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## skye_and_i (20 November 2011)

"The need for a goods vehicle operator licence 
In the majority of cases, goods vehicles with a gross plated weight of over 3.5 tonnes or, if there 
is no plated weight, an unladen weight of over 1525 kg require a goods vehicle operator s licence, 
if they are used to carry goods or burden of any description in connection with a trade or 
business, or for hire or reward. However, generally, where a horsebox is used on an  amateur 
basis, we would not normally consider that the vehicle is being used for hire or reward, where it is 
clear that the carriage of goods (in this case horses), is not with a view to making a profit. 
Therefore, although we must point out in all correspondence that existing regulations do not 
exempt private horseboxes from the requirements of operator licensing, we would not consider it 
to be in the public interest to take any action where nothing more than petrol money or modest 
prize money is involved. 
Please note: where the user of a vehicle combines use of a HGV horsebox for both; the amateur 
purposes  - described above - and a business, (e.g a farm, livery stables, dressage or any other 
related business), a goods vehicle operators licence will be required, irrespective of how 
infrequently the vehicle may be used in connection with that business. 
"Modest prize money". 
Unfortunately, "modest prize money" has never been formally defined or quantified for the 
purpose of goods vehicle operator licensing. Nevertheless, where it is clear that there is only the 
prospect of nominal winnings which are merely incidental to the amateur activity, then VOSA 
would not consider that an operator's licence would be required. 
Where there is the likelihood of winning prize money is on a more regular basis (whether or not 
the activity is on an "amateur" basis) and any such success has attracted sponsorship - or any 
other form of corporate support  - this may be construed as having a commercial element to it, 
where an operator's licence may be required (N.B. this may include the vehicle bearing the 
sponsors name - in return for the financial support received) 
Transporting a friend's horse - in connection with amateur activity 
VOSA will not take any action where it is clear that a friend's horse is being transported for 
nothing more than petrol money, purely to cover costs  - and where it is evident that there is no 
commercial element involved in the transport. 
Therefore, if you only use the horsebox for "amateur" activities (see above)  i.e you do not 
charge for horse transportation, no operator's licence will be required. 
Blacksmith /Vets 
When transporting your horse to the vets or blacksmiths, an operator's licence will not be required 
- where it is clear the vehicle is for private use, not in connection with a business and where you 
are not transporting someone else's horse(s) for any form of payment.


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## perfect11s (20 November 2011)

I guess some people will comply some wont bother and some will conclude it just isnt worth it and pack up.. meanwhile the EU juggernaut will roll on towards finacial armageddon flattening all prosperity in its path.. with cameron's tongue up its bum...


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## Charlie007 (20 November 2011)

Prob a daft question but does this only apply to horse trailers or does it extend to trailers used to transport goods for a business?  ie a very large car trailer.


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## skye_and_i (20 November 2011)

Charlie007 said:



			Prob a daft question but does this only apply to horse trailers or does it extend to trailers used to transport goods for a business?  ie a very large car trailer.
		
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the rules apply to everybody in some shape or form. basically if your towing for hire and reward over 3.5ton gtw then you need a tachograph and alsways have done! the operators licence side of things isnt so black and white.


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## perfect11s (20 November 2011)

Charlie007 said:



			Prob a daft question but does this only apply to horse trailers or does it extend to trailers used to transport goods for a business?  ie a very large car trailer.
		
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 posibly  if the tow car and trailer together is over 3.5 tons!!!   yes mainly seems to be aimed at people hauling goods  I guess to bring people with larger vans and pickups towing trailers doing light haulage into the same laws as hauliers but  looks its going to affect more casual bussiness users  as well....


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## jodie3 (20 November 2011)

So what about if you are towing your employers trailer, using their vehicle and their ponies in trailer?  Not to a show neccessarily but to vets or moving from field to field as part of your daily activities for employer?


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## perfect11s (20 November 2011)

jodie3 said:



			So what about if you are towing your employers trailer, using their vehicle and their ponies in trailer?  Not to a show neccessarily but to vets or moving from field to field as part of your daily activities for employer?
		
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 I guess it would depend on if they are there hobby or if its a comercial  bussiness  breeding and showing for profit???


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## jodie3 (20 November 2011)

perfect11s said:



			I guess it would depend on if they are there hobby or if its a comercial  bussiness  breeding and showing for profit???
		
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Not certain how much profit there is in it but its a commercial stud and farm.  We have a very old livestock trailer that we use for ponies and sheep.


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## Alec Swan (20 November 2011)

marmalade76 said:



			Will that apply to farmers?
		
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Yes,  but then we'll ignore it,  just as we do much of the other pointless crap which our neighbours hand down to us.  Can you see those who farm in France,  sticking to the rules?  I can't.

Alec.


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## Pedantic (20 November 2011)

So me towing the ginger sausage in his trailer to a show/charity ride/pleasure ride/on holiday, isn't going to be a problem then.


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## perfect11s (20 November 2011)

Alec Swan said:



			Yes,  but then we'll ignore it,  just as we do much of the other pointless crap which our neighbours hand down to us.  Can you see those who farm in France,  sticking to the rules?  I can't.

Alec.
		
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 No but the french have a republic and the people tend to work together
protest and the police will stand and watch.. sorry but we have VOSA and they are going to do there job, a little army  with plastic hemets tiny hammers and hi vis jackets , they will enforce its more than there jobs worth not too


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## Mithras (20 November 2011)

perfect11s said:



			Just great!!! now you need an opperators licence as well as a tachograph  if you use a trailer in conection with a bussiness  this is EU law from our masters in brussels it applys if the combination is over 3.5 ton and  comes into affect on dec 4  ....
		
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Although you have to ask what our Government Ministers were doing with their time in not requesting an opt out for the UK.  Which it clearly needs, due to the domination of the UK market by relatively heavy double horse trailers when compared with other European countries  Opt outs of harmonisation directives are quite common in EU law but do require a little bit of effort on the part of Governments.  e.g. there are several opt outs of the Working Time Directive for certain industries.


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## perfect11s (20 November 2011)

Mithras said:



			Although you have to ask what our Government Ministers were doing with their time in not requesting an opt out for the UK.  Which it clearly needs, due to the domination of the UK market by relatively heavy double horse trailers when compared with other European countries  Opt outs of harmonisation directives are quite common in EU law but do require a little bit of effort on the part of Governments.  e.g. there are several opt outs of the Working Time Directive for certain industries.
		
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Um yes they seem to forget who is in charge  and maybe they should at least question this and other shite that no uk voter has had a say on... it's just another of many silly rules
 that are sucking the life out of the UK.. I  dream of the day we can throw off the shackels of the EU and be our own master again ..mind the policos will need to up their game if they dont have the EU to blame,  why are we subserviant to brussels we  our forbares payed in blood for our legal , justice system and our freedom and we just roll over and give it away..


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## marmalade76 (21 November 2011)

perfect11s said:



			posibly  if the tow car and trailer together is over 3.5 tons!!!   yes mainly seems to be aimed at people hauling goods  I guess to bring people with larger vans and pickups towing trailers doing light haulage into the same laws as hauliers but  looks its going to affect more casual bussiness users  as well....
		
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This is why I asked if it applied to farmers as most stock boxes have a gross weight of 3.5t before you add the weight of the towing vehicle. So, assaid, many small busineses just just won't be viable. Does this law apply now, or just proposed?


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## marmalade76 (21 November 2011)

Alec Swan said:



			Yes,  but then we'll ignore it,  just as we do much of the other pointless crap which our neighbours hand down to us.  Can you see those who farm in France,  sticking to the rules?  I can't.
		
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Niether can I.


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## perfect11s (21 November 2011)

marmalade76 said:



			This is why I asked if it applied to farmers as most stock boxes have a gross weight of 3.5t before you add the weight of the towing vehicle. So, assaid, many small busineses just just won't be viable. Does this law apply now, or just proposed?
		
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 supposed to be from dec 4 ,  sorry but I dont know if this will affect farmers haulling there own livestock ... maybe   it will just be for livestock hauliers  using trailers for hire or reward....  Maybe worth contacting the NFU and or Vosa for clarifacation...


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## Kat (21 November 2011)

Sounds like a blinking nightmare. We were planning to use our (not yet purchased) horse trailer for the one or two occasions a year that the OH needs to transport stuff for his business that won't all fit in a normal vehicle. 

He doesn't have a business vehicle as the travel is minimal so he just pays himself 40p a mile, and was planning to do the same for the one or two times he needs more space, but in light of this he will either need a small trailer so that the total weight is less than 3.5t or he will need an operators licence. Either that or he could hire a BIG van.... 

Totally daft way to make life incredibly difficult for small businesses.


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## Luci07 (21 November 2011)

Realistically if its under 3.5 tonnes - well there aren't many trailer combinations which would really go over that unless you are pulling the top of the range equi-trek. My fully laden jeep plus trailer plus big horse is still only pulling around 1.8 so don't see it as an issue. The people who might be impacted would be those pulling trailers for say, show stands etc. Think this is a storm in a tea cup for the vast majority of us.


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## martlin (21 November 2011)

Luci07 said:



			Realistically if its under 3.5 tonnes - well there aren't many trailer combinations which would really go over that unless you are pulling the top of the range equi-trek. My fully laden jeep plus trailer plus big horse is still only pulling around 1.8 so don't see it as an issue. The people who might be impacted would be those pulling trailers for say, show stands etc. Think this is a storm in a tea cup for the vast majority of us.
		
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It's the train weight we are talking about here, so your big Jeep's gross weight comes into equation...


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## joyrider (21 November 2011)

This new law seems as clear as mud however I found an interesting forum (disco3.co.uk) http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic70499-105.html  which when you get to pages 7,8 & 9 would seem to say if you are towing with a dual purpose vehicle (which seems to include most 4x4's able to take passengers) then you are exempt from needing an operator's licence?!?!? What's that saying 'the law is an ass'!


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## perfect11s (21 November 2011)

KristmasKatt said:



			Sounds like a blinking nightmare. We were planning to use our (not yet purchased) horse trailer for the one or two occasions a year that the OH needs to transport stuff for his business that won't all fit in a normal vehicle. 

He doesn't have a business vehicle as the travel is minimal so he just pays himself 40p a mile, and was planning to do the same for the one or two times he needs more space, but in light of this he will either need a small trailer so that the total weight is less than 3.5t or he will need an operators licence. Either that or he could hire a BIG van.... 

Totally daft way to make life incredibly difficult for small businesses.
		
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 That's  the EU for you !!! they can make petty rules that have a major impact on small bussiness but wont change the law on live transport that the animal welfare people  are asking for to save poor creatures a horiffic last ride... sorry  The EUSSR is...  oh best not say !!!!!


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## SpruceRI (21 November 2011)

Luci07 said:



			Realistically if its under 3.5 tonnes - well there aren't many trailer combinations which would really go over that unless you are pulling the top of the range equi-trek. My fully laden jeep plus trailer plus big horse is still only pulling around 1.8 so don't see it as an issue. The people who might be impacted would be those pulling trailers for say, show stands etc. Think this is a storm in a tea cup for the vast majority of us.
		
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It's the combined weight of the car and trailer isn't it?  In which case a lot of people may be affected.


I was just wondering where I'd stand towing a small box trailer with a Fourtrak, taking away peoples' garden waste..... I'd just looked up the Fourtrak weight - approx 2 ton.  The trailer probably weighs 250-400kg so think I'm well within requirements NOT to have to go down this route.... which I wouldn't do.  People would have to transport their own waste.


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## Alec Swan (22 November 2011)

SpruceRI said:



			It's the combined weight of the car and trailer isn't it?  In which case a lot of people may be affected.


I was just wondering where I'd stand towing a small box trailer with a Fourtrak, taking away peoples' garden waste..... I'd just looked up the Fourtrak weight - approx 2 ton.  The trailer probably weighs 250-400kg so think I'm well within requirements NOT to have to go down this route.... which I wouldn't do.  People would have to transport their own waste.
		
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I've just looked up the weight _unladen_ of an Ifor Williams 510 trailer,  which is roomy enough to carry 2 horses which are 17.2.  It isn't 250-400 kgs,  but 1000 kgs!!

If your towing vehicle weighs,  as you suggest, 2000 kgs,  then within the permitted 3500 kgs _gross weight_,  that allows a pay load of only 500 kgs,  which wouldn't cover one large horse,  let alone 2!!

I keep sheep,  and I have a 14' livestock trailer.  If I'm to put 50 x 70 kg ewes in this trailer,  then there's the 3500 kg legal limit taken up by the _load_,  without the added weight of the vehicle and trailer.  Well maintained and effective trailer breaking is vital.

I suspect that most fully loaded car/horse or livestock combos actually travel overweight,  and therefore,  illegally,  as would many of the smaller horse boxes,  those made on non commercial chassis,  Equitrek for instance,  when they're loaded with 2 x 16.2 horses.

There are some French made horse trailers,  available for sale in this country,  which are twice the size of the I/W trailers,  so just how they operate,  within the law,  is beyond me!!

Alec.


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## Kat (22 November 2011)

Luci07 said:



			Realistically if its under 3.5 tonnes - well there aren't many trailer combinations which would really go over that unless you are pulling the top of the range equi-trek. My fully laden jeep plus trailer plus big horse is still only pulling around 1.8 so don't see it as an issue. The people who might be impacted would be those pulling trailers for say, show stands etc. Think this is a storm in a tea cup for the vast majority of us.
		
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It is a show stand that we transport, for local shows where we don't need overnight gear and lots of spare stock we can manage with just a big vehicle and possibly a roof rack but for overnighters we need more space, but only a couple of times a year. A big vehicle plus a decent sized trailer is going to go over 3.5t pretty easily. If we would need an operators licence to use the horse trailer we would be better off hiring a big van or using two vehicles.


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## Luci07 (22 November 2011)

Ah b**ger! I will delve now but interesting that this is the law around weight and not towing capacity - this will lead others (like me) down the wrong route as the normal splits are 3.5 or up to 7.5. I know there isn't a clear legal requirement but a guideline. Off to investigate and no doubt will be back to see who can interpret ,!


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## ROG (22 November 2011)

Alec Swan said:



			I've just looked up the weight _unladen_ of an Ifor Williams 510 trailer,  which is roomy enough to carry 2 horses which are 17.2.  It isn't 250-400 kgs,  but 1000 kgs!!

If your towing vehicle weighs,  as you suggest, 2000 kgs,  then within the permitted 3500 kgs _gross weight_,  that allows a pay load of only 500 kgs,  which wouldn't cover one large horse,  let alone 2!!
		
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I think you are going on ACTUAL weights and the law on O licencing refers to plated weights ....doesn't it?


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## Luci07 (22 November 2011)

It doesn't apply to private individuals but those using for hire or reward - but good luck on working out where the restrictions apply. Either way and regardless of your thoughts this looks like a very hard law to understand and apply! What a waste of time


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## joyrider (22 November 2011)

Re my post further up, I have copied one of the replys from the Disco 3 forum which is quite interesting

Member Since: 21 Mar 2008
Location: Hove
Posts: 98



I have received this from Ifor Williams in response to my query to them. 
This appears to cover much of the ground already posted but does make specific mention of Landrovers. 
Again only VOSA's opinion not legally binding. 

Dear Andy 

I refer to your recent e &#8211; mail addressed to Gordon MacDonald , concerning 
the above. Gordon has passed your query to me for reply. 

I have outlined below, an extract from the forthcoming update of our 
booklet "Goods Vehicle Operator Licensing A Guide for Operators" (GV 
74) on 
this: - 

"...A trailer with an unladen weight of less than 1,020kg need not be 
taken into account in the weight calculation for a vehicle pulling a 
trailer. It therefore can be ignored for the purposes of adding up 
total gross weights or unladen weights to determine whether they are 
above the threshold for requiring an operator&#8217;s licence. 


However, this exemption does not apply if you are carrying other 
people&#8217;s goods for hire or reward (e.g. working as a courier or 
freight transport business). In such circumstances, the weight 
calculation must include any trailer attached (irrespective of the 
trailer&#8217;s weight). In this case, if the vehicle and trailer 
combination exceeds the weight limits stated above for a single 
vehicle, a standard licence is required". 


Therefore, for many operator's of small trailers, the situation will 
remain unchanged - as the users of these combinations will be 
unaffected, as they will be carrying their own goods. However, where a 
3.5 tonne van/trailer combination is used and it is clear that the 
carriage of goods is for payment (a removals company perhaps?) then an 
operator's licence will be required - even where the trailer has an 
unladen weight of less than 1020 kgs. 

Note: Under Schedule 3 (2) of the goods Vehicles (Licensing of 
Operators) Regulations 1995 "a dual purpose vehicle and any trailer 
drawn by it" is identified as exempt from goods vehicle operator 
licensing. Examples are Range Rovers, Land Rovers, Jeeps, certain 
Japanese vehicles and those designed to go over rough ground as well 
as on roads. Therefore, (under existing legislation) where a 4x4 is 
used, the combination will be exempt from operator licensing - even when carriage is for hire or reward. 

I should point out that this is in VOSA&#8217;s view and does not constitute 
legal opinion 

I hope that the information given above has helped clarify the current 
position. If you have any further queries, do not hesitate to contact me. 

Regards 

Chris Slowley 
Operator Licensing 
Strategy and Customer Directorate 
VOSA


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## Luci07 (22 November 2011)

And while I am happy my jeep is exempt - not sure I understand the rational!


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## Kat (22 November 2011)

joyrider said:



			Re my post further up, I have copied one of the replys from the Disco 3 forum which is quite interesting

Member Since: 21 Mar 2008
Location: Hove
Posts: 98



I have received this from Ifor Williams in response to my query to them. 
This appears to cover much of the ground already posted but does make specific mention of Landrovers. 
Again only VOSA's opinion not legally binding. 

Dear Andy 

I refer to your recent e  mail addressed to Gordon MacDonald , concerning 
the above. Gordon has passed your query to me for reply. 

I have outlined below, an extract from the forthcoming update of our 
booklet "Goods Vehicle Operator Licensing A Guide for Operators" (GV 
74) on 
this: - 

"...A trailer with an unladen weight of less than 1,020kg need not be 
taken into account in the weight calculation for a vehicle pulling a 
trailer. It therefore can be ignored for the purposes of adding up 
total gross weights or unladen weights to determine whether they are 
above the threshold for requiring an operators licence. 


However, this exemption does not apply if you are carrying other 
peoples goods for hire or reward (e.g. working as a courier or 
freight transport business). In such circumstances, the weight 
calculation must include any trailer attached (irrespective of the 
trailers weight). In this case, if the vehicle and trailer 
combination exceeds the weight limits stated above for a single 
vehicle, a standard licence is required". 


Therefore, for many operator's of small trailers, the situation will 
remain unchanged - as the users of these combinations will be 
unaffected, as they will be carrying their own goods. However, where a 
3.5 tonne van/trailer combination is used and it is clear that the 
carriage of goods is for payment (a removals company perhaps?) then an 
operator's licence will be required - even where the trailer has an 
unladen weight of less than 1020 kgs. 

Note: Under Schedule 3 (2) of the goods Vehicles (Licensing of 
Operators) Regulations 1995 "a dual purpose vehicle and any trailer 
drawn by it" is identified as exempt from goods vehicle operator 
licensing. Examples are Range Rovers, Land Rovers, Jeeps, certain 
Japanese vehicles and those designed to go over rough ground as well 
as on roads. Therefore, (under existing legislation) where a 4x4 is 
used, the combination will be exempt from operator licensing - even when carriage is for hire or reward. 

I should point out that this is in VOSAs view and does not constitute 
legal opinion 

I hope that the information given above has helped clarify the current 
position. If you have any further queries, do not hesitate to contact me. 

Regards 

Chris Slowley 
Operator Licensing 
Strategy and Customer Directorate 
VOSA
		
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Very helpful thanks, it only applies if you are carrying other peoples goods for hire or reward, not if you are carrying goods in the course of a business. So transporting items which you plan to sell will not be covered - phew!


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## Alec Swan (23 November 2011)

joyrider,

thank you for the VOSA quote.  I thought that I had the ruling clear in my own mind,  but obviously not!!  I'm also a little surprised to read that VOSA are only able to offer an opinion,  rather than a clear explanation,  as they are the authority who will determine road legal requirements,  and would be the prosecuting body,  in the event of transgression.

Specifically,  I don't understand Para 3.

 "...A trailer with an unladen weight of less than 1,020kg need not be 
taken into account in the weight calculation for a vehicle pulling a 
trailer. It therefore can be ignored for the purposes of adding up 
total gross weights or unladen weights to determine whether they are 
above the threshold for requiring an operators licence. 

I've always understood that Gross Weight,  meant just that,  being the total weight of a vehicle,  trailer, _and _ the contents,  when put over a weigh bridge.  Or is it that this only applies when the question of an _Operators Licence_ is under consideration?

I suppose that I could ask Ifor Williams,  or VOSA,  for that matter,  but if you have a clear understanding of the law,  could you clarify it for me?

Alec.


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## joyrider (23 November 2011)

Unfortunately, like the rest of us I am finding it as clear as mud so did a bit of searching which is when I came across the disco forum that the above quote was taken from and thought it would be worth sharing - sorry if I've made it worse!


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## cowchaser (23 November 2011)

How many people have weighed their vehicle and trailer.  Suggest anyone worried goes along to their local public weighbridge and gets their vehicle weighed (loaded) before they start to panic.


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## perfect11s (23 November 2011)

cowchaser said:



			How many people have weighed their vehicle and trailer.  Suggest anyone worried goes along to their local public weighbridge and gets their vehicle weighed (loaded) before they start to panic.
		
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 I think the only people who need worry at the are the ones with a big van and trailer used for light haulage ie  removal people and the guy who tranports goods for a living,, seems 4x4s are outside the scope of this at the moment, but it might affect a livestock transporter who has say a transit with a cattle box on that tows a livestock trailer....


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## Vixxy (23 November 2011)

The Xmas Furry said:



			Got this via email today:

As from the 4th December ANY vehicle towing a trailer for hire or reward (a driver in 1999 was convicted after admitted his mate bought him a pint!!!) so a gardener, tree surgeon, builder, motor sales etc who's combined weight exceeds 3,500kgs (laden or un-laden) will need a **HEAVY GOODS VEHICLE OPERATORS LICENCE** along with the numerous rules that go with it:



Off road parking
6wk maintenance check by a VAT reg garage.
 Have an International CPC (certificate of professional competence) (operator not driver cpc)
 Be or nominate a transport manager with an International CPC (or pay somebody who has one!)
 Have instantly available at all times, 9,000 euro's 24/7 which is checkable by the Traffic Commissioner.
 Apply every 12mth for a new licence (was 5yr)
  Plus many more.

Can you afford these new changes as well as rising fuel costs so therefore as of the 4th Dec many will be out of their job or closing a business
What happens to those thousands of other drivers who are unaware of the changes, the max fine is £5k

This apparently is to bring us in line with the rest of the EU!!  

Click to expand...

Don't panic chaps I have an International CPC, I will be your Transport Manager for a not so small fee. Always glad to help


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## EmmasMummy (24 November 2011)

joyrider said:



			Re my post further up, I have copied one of the replys from the Disco 3 forum which is quite interesting

Member Since: 21 Mar 2008
Location: Hove
Posts: 98



I have received this from Ifor Williams in response to my query to them. 
This appears to cover much of the ground already posted but does make specific mention of Landrovers. 
Again only VOSA's opinion not legally binding. 

Dear Andy 

I refer to your recent e  mail addressed to Gordon MacDonald , concerning 
the above. Gordon has passed your query to me for reply. 

I have outlined below, an extract from the forthcoming update of our 
booklet "Goods Vehicle Operator Licensing A Guide for Operators" (GV 
74) on 
this: - 

"...A trailer with an unladen weight of less than 1,020kg need not be 
taken into account in the weight calculation for a vehicle pulling a 
trailer. It therefore can be ignored for the purposes of adding up 
total gross weights or unladen weights to determine whether they are 
above the threshold for requiring an operators licence. 


However, this exemption does not apply if you are carrying other 
peoples goods for hire or reward (e.g. working as a courier or 
freight transport business). In such circumstances, the weight 
calculation must include any trailer attached (irrespective of the 
trailers weight). In this case, if the vehicle and trailer 
combination exceeds the weight limits stated above for a single 
vehicle, a standard licence is required". 


Therefore, for many operator's of small trailers, the situation will 
remain unchanged - as the users of these combinations will be 
unaffected, as they will be carrying their own goods. However, where a 
3.5 tonne van/trailer combination is used and it is clear that the 
carriage of goods is for payment (a removals company perhaps?) then an 
operator's licence will be required - even where the trailer has an 
unladen weight of less than 1020 kgs. 

*Note: Under Schedule 3 (2) of the goods Vehicles (Licensing of 
Operators) Regulations 1995 "a dual purpose vehicle and any trailer 
drawn by it" is identified as exempt from goods vehicle operator 
licensing. Examples are Range Rovers, Land Rovers, Jeeps, certain 
Japanese vehicles and those designed to go over rough ground as well 
as on roads. Therefore, (under existing legislation) where a 4x4 is 
used, the combination will be exempt from operator licensing - even when carriage is for hire or reward.* 

I should point out that this is in VOSAs view and does not constitute 
legal opinion 

I hope that the information given above has helped clarify the current 
position. If you have any further queries, do not hesitate to contact me. 

Regards 

Chris Slowley 
Operator Licensing 
Strategy and Customer Directorate 
VOSA
		
Click to expand...

So if my neighbours took my pony to a show and I paid them, but they are towing in a jeep then they are exempt - correct? 

And if you are a tree surgeon that has say, and L200 truck - with 4 person seating and tow a trailer you are also exempt as the vehicle is a 'dual purpose' vehicle.


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