# RSPCA Debate



## Star_Chaser (25 January 2013)

It seems that there will be a debate on the role of the RSPCA:

Dear Supporter,

We need your help.

There will be a debate in the House of Commons on Tuesday, 29 January on the role of the RSPCA in taking private prosecutions in pursuit of our charitable objectives.

The RSPCA undertakes most of the work in England and Wales to investigate and enforce laws to protect animals from cruelty. From severe neglect to deliberate and sustained animal abuse, where there is sufficient evidence and it is in the public interest, the RSPCA will seek justice for animals who have suffered at the hands of their abusers. If the RSPCA did not do this work, it would not happen and those who harm animals would go unchallenged.

This debate, sponsored by Simon Hart MP (ex-chief executive of pro-hunting lobby group the Countryside Alliance) is the latest attack in a campaign to undermine the RSPCA which has resulted in recent misleading and inaccurate media coverage, now the subject of a press complaints commission complaint. The attempt to discredit our name has been prompted by the recent successful prosecution of the Heythrop Hunt for breaking the law on hunting with hounds, which predictably upset those seeking repeal of the Hunting Act.

Take action now! Email your MP urging them to show their support for RSPCA prosecutions against animal abuse.

Make no mistake. This attack on the RSPCA is not motivated by concerns for animal welfare, but by enthusiasm for illegal fox hunting by those who seek the return of blood sports.

It is important that we get as much support as we can at the debate. Please email your MP and ask them to attend the debate to support the RSPCA.

Thank you for your loyal support, we and the animals need it more than ever.

RSPCA campaigns team


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## MerrySherryRider (25 January 2013)

Already written to my MP. Had to laugh at Simon Harts latest attempt to prevent our national animal charity bringing animal abusers to court, all because he feels his love of blood sport is more important than protecting animals from criminals.


 Hey, Simon, has anyone looked to see why your expenses come at the top end of the table since you became an MP ? You're certainly not cheap for tax payers to keep.


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## horserugsnot4u (25 January 2013)

This is a joke and a waste of Parliament's time. Ridiculous to accuse the RSPCA of being political when they aren't the ones raising the issue at Westminster. Whether you support them or not you have to agree some of the pro-hunt fraternity have influence and power and are trying everything to discredit  (in the main) a very worthwhile organisation.  The witch hunt is almost laughable.  No point in writing to my MP - he's one of them.


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## Mightymax (25 January 2013)

I am neither for, nor against Hunting, but from what I have read in the press, and these are the only facts that I have access to, I feel that the point of concern is that so much Charitable money was wasted on one case. Especially in the current financial climate.

If the sums quoted are correct (in excess of 300k), surely, when local branches of the RSPCA are allegedly closing due to lack of funds, it would have made more sense to have saved that money in the interests of protecting the Welfare of many animals, rather than 'blowing' it on one high profile prosecution.

I accept that Hunting is a hot potato, But I don't think that in this instance, The RSPCA have done themselves any favours, as it comes across as being politically motivated rather than from genuine concern for animal welfare.


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## SarahColeman (25 January 2013)

MP Simon Hart should remember it is us paying his wages now, not the Countryside Alliance and get on with the job we pay him for!


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## competitiondiva (25 January 2013)

Mightymax said:



			I am neither for, nor against Hunting, but from what I have read in the press, and these are the only facts that I have access to, I feel that the point of concern is that so much Charitable money was wasted on one case. Especially in the current financial climate.

If the sums quoted are correct (in excess of 300k), surely, when local branches of the RSPCA are allegedly closing due to lack of funds, it would have made more sense to have saved that money in the interests of protecting the Welfare of many animals, rather than 'blowing' it on one high profile prosecution.

I accept that Hunting is a hot potato, But I don't think that in this instance, The RSPCA have done themselves any favours, as it comes across as being politically motivated rather than from genuine concern for animal welfare.
		
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So instead leave the illegal fox hunters to get away with it, with no reprimand in any way, the only alternative since the CPS declined to take the case due the costs involved!! laughable that it falls to a CHARITY to have to uphold the law instead of the CPS which we all pay for! Thank god the RSPCA are here and do the job they do, if they weren't I fear life for hundreds of thousands of animals would be very bleak indeed.


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## harveysmom (25 January 2013)

Firstly i do not go hunting, so have no interest from that point of view however i agree with a previous post that they could have spent the money more wisely.
As hunting is illegal already  there are others who could have brought a case to court,the police or more to the point the cps would have been able to do this so there was no need for the rspca to get involved. The other way of looking at it is did the cps look at the case and decide not to prosecute based on the evidence brought before them and not waste the public purse on a case that may have been iffy.
Anyway the rspca could have done alot more with that money elsewhere


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## MerrySherryRider (25 January 2013)

The RSPCA could have used the money elsewhere, had the Heythrop not wilfully broken the law.
 The RSPCA could have saved the money if the CPS had done the job its supposed to do, instead of using a charity.

The argument that the CPS decide not to prosecute because of a lack of evidence is untrue as the RSPCA have a 98% conviction success rate with private prosecutions.

Its time that the hunts stopped breaking the law and their lackeys stopped trying to slander an animal welfare charity. 

Simon Hunt should remember he's an MP to work for the people of his constituency,76% of whom are opposed to fox hunting, he is not there for his hunting chums.

Keep your private life out of work time Mr Hart, and stop wasting parliamentary time and money.


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## Gingerwitch (25 January 2013)

Well well well the fat cats of the government facing the fat cats of the RSPCA - they should all rot in hell - they are greed through and through and are using animals as a licence to line their own pockets - they make me equally as sick !

£120,000 k for a senior member of the RSPCA wages plus expensises - they would not know one end of a dog or cat from another.

At least the Royal should be dropped - they are a sick joke, they turn blind eyes at every opportunity and unless they are going to get money out of the press coverage they do a really poor job.


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## MerrySherryRider (26 January 2013)

GW,you're out of touch with wages if you think the RSPCA pay senior executives too much. Last time I checked, the RSPCA was way down the list. You should see what the RSPB pay, now that's shocking, but they are an incredibly rich charity.


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## Goldenstar (26 January 2013)

Yes I do intend to email my MP over the weekend with my thoughts on this.


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## Moomin1 (26 January 2013)

Gingerwitch said:



			Well well well the fat cats of the government facing the fat cats of the RSPCA - they should all rot in hell - they are greed through and through and are using animals as a licence to line their own pockets - they make me equally as sick !

£120,000 k for a senior member of the RSPCA wages plus expensises - they would not know one end of a dog or cat from another.

At least the Royal should be dropped - they are a sick joke, they turn blind eyes at every opportunity and unless they are going to get money out of the press coverage they do a really poor job.
		
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Dear me, all that bed rest getting to you GW?!

You sound far too aggressive lately..


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## Serenity087 (26 January 2013)

The RSPCA spent £300,000 of charity money on attempting to bitch slap a fox hunter.

THEY are the ones making this politcal, not Simon Hart!

Who is probably quite considerably cheaper to keep than those bunch of morons..

Oh I do hope people write to their MPs... I suspect the RSPCA will be unpleasantly surprised how the animal loving public respond... They're not the RSPCA anymore, they're an unpleasant front for the animal rights agenda and people know it!


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## Moomin1 (26 January 2013)

Serenity087 said:



			The RSPCA spent £300,000 of charity money on attempting to bitch slap a fox hunter.

THEY are the ones making this politcal, not Simon Hart!

Who is probably quite considerably cheaper to keep than those bunch of morons..

Oh I do hope people write to their MPs... I suspect the RSPCA will be unpleasantly surprised how the animal loving public respond... They're not the RSPCA anymore, they're an unpleasant front for the animal rights agenda and people know it!
		
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I am sure people are quite aware of the cost of the Heythrop prosecution by now dear..no need to repeat it..

Money very well spent IMO..


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## Bedlam (26 January 2013)

Gingerwitch said:



			Well well well the fat cats of the government facing the fat cats of the RSPCA - they should all rot in hell - they are greed through and through and are using animals as a licence to line their own pockets - they make me equally as sick !

£120,000 k for a senior member of the RSPCA wages plus expensises - they would not know one end of a dog or cat from another.

At least the Royal should be dropped - they are a sick joke, they turn blind eyes at every opportunity and unless they are going to get money out of the press coverage they do a really poor job.
		
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Oh honestly - £120K is not a huge wage for someone high up in a national organisation. Would you rather someone with no management experience was at the top of an organisation like this because of their devotion to the welfare of puppies and kittens?

Unless you pay wages like that you won't have people with the right skills or experience in place. You can't expect good people to be altruistic and work for nothing. Would you do your job for nothing just because it gave you a warm glow of satisfaction?


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## Moomin1 (26 January 2013)

Bedlam said:



			Oh honestly - £120K is not a huge wage for someone high up in a national organisation. Would you rather someone with no management experience was at the top of an organisation like this because of their devotion to the welfare of puppies and kittens?

Unless you pay wages like that you won't have people with the right skills or experience in place. You can't expect good people to be altruistic and work for nothing. Would you do your job for nothing just because it gave you a warm glow of satisfaction?
		
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Quite.  These people are so quick to form biased opinions.

What does make me chuckle so much, is the fact that the pro hunt, anti RSPCA are screaming and shouting that the RSPCA have acted 'politically' with regard the Heythrop (who clearly hunted illegally), yet they all call for government intervention and investigation..I don't even need to say anymore..


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## Hunters (26 January 2013)

Oh good news, bring on the debate in H o C.

More press coverage too. RSPCA get on with your job of looking after sick or neglected animals, being seen as an animal activist group does you no favours


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## competitiondiva (26 January 2013)

If upholding animal welfare law and making those who break it accountable for their actions, whilst campaining for law changes that improve animal welfare makes them animal activists, then what is wrong with this? 

As far as getting on with caring for the animals, in 2011 they:

rescued and collected 119,126 animals

found new homes for 60,551 animals

microchipped 61,903 animals, helping them to stay safe

investigated 159,759 cruelty complaints

I think they do a lot of that too!! Of course if less people actually broke the law and they had more resources available they'd be able to do even more!!!!

And once again for all those that say they only do something when cameras are there, did you seriously see 119,126 different stories of animals collected or 159,759 stories about complaints dealt with by the RSPCA in the press in 2011??????? Of course not, because a basic injured animal collection or complaint that doesn't lead to a conviction either isn't news worthy as far as the papers are concerned or data protection prevents release of details of the complaints that are solved with advice etc. 

http://www.rspca.org.uk/media/facts


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## Adina (26 January 2013)

I think most of these comments are missing the point.  Whether or not you agree with hunting, it is wrong to spend 300K, when you can do it for 100K with your own in-house lawyers.


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## dalesslave (26 January 2013)

competition diva maybe you could also quote the RSPCA's PTS statistics too. Oh yes the little old dears that happily write huge sums of cash in their wills to be left to RSPCA in order that they will find 10 year old fluffy a loving caring home after they have passed away have also succumbed to the excellent PR job of the RSPCA too.


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## minesadouble (26 January 2013)

Goldenstar said:



			Yes I do intend to email my MP over the weekend with my thoughts on this.
		
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Yes, I will be doing likewise amd so will very many of my friends. However, the RSPCA may find our 'thoughts' are not quite as supportive as those they may have hoped to generate.....


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## competitiondiva (26 January 2013)

People talk about in house lawyers, would paying for lawyers full time to cover the whole country cost less than hiring a lawyer in an area when needed?


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## Springy (26 January 2013)

OOh another RSPCA debate on the forum.... Surely not 

I think most of the points from both sides have been raised over and over and over again 

I am not a fan of the RSPCA but come on... how many debates  maybe there should just be 1 RSPCA thread running permenantley rather than everyone repeating themseves most days


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## Moomin1 (26 January 2013)

Mmm well interestingly I just recieved me letter back from the MP and it would appear they tend to agree with the RSPCA's actions with regard the Heythrop Hunt!


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## Serenity087 (26 January 2013)

Moomin1 said:





I am sure people are quite aware of the cost of the Heythrop prosecution by now dear..no need to repeat it..

Money very well spent IMO..
		
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But if only £3 a month ensures that Fluffy and Jack can be garunteed a safe place, free from harm, how many Fluffy and Jack's have suffered and died because the RSPCA didn't like a guy's accent?

It's disgusting...


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## Fenris (26 January 2013)

competitiondiva said:



			the CPS declined to take the case due the costs involved!!
		
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The RSPCA claim that they never offered the case to the CPS.


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## minesadouble (26 January 2013)

Moomin1 said:



			Mmm well interestingly I just recieved me letter back from the MP and it would appear they tend to agree with the RSPCA's actions with regard the Heythrop Hunt!

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Oh dear, you are obviously also unfortunate enough to be resident in a Labour stronghold


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## Moomin1 (26 January 2013)

Serenity087 said:



			But if only £3 a month ensures that Fluffy and Jack can be garunteed a safe place, free from harm, how many Fluffy and Jack's have suffered and died because the RSPCA didn't like a guy's accent?

It's disgusting...
		
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Seriously, don't be ridiculous!  

They committed an offence.  It was nothing to do with their accent or what class they are.


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## SarahColeman (26 January 2013)

harveysmom said:



			Firstly i do not go hunting, so have no interest from that point of view however i agree with a previous post that they could have spent the money more wisely.
As hunting is illegal already  there are others who could have brought a case to court,the police or more to the point the cps would have been able to do this so there was no need for the rspca to get involved. The other way of looking at it is did the cps look at the case and decide not to prosecute based on the evidence brought before them and not waste the public purse on a case that may have been iffy.
Anyway the rspca could have done alot more with that money elsewhere
		
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The CPS never saw the evidence. The monitors took it to the RSPCA who have a duty having been provided with suspected evidence of a crime against animals to investigate and if needs be then prosecute.


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## SarahColeman (26 January 2013)

horserider said:



			GW,you're out of touch with wages if you think the RSPCA pay senior executives too much. Last time I checked, the RSPCA was way down the list. You should see what the RSPB pay, now that's shocking, but they are an incredibly rich charity.
		
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Very true horserider.


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## SarahColeman (26 January 2013)

Serenity087 said:



			The RSPCA spent £300,000 of charity money on attempting to bitch slap a fox hunter.

THEY are the ones making this politcal, not Simon Hart!

Who is probably quite considerably cheaper to keep than those bunch of morons..

Oh I do hope people write to their MPs... I suspect the RSPCA will be unpleasantly surprised how the animal loving public respond... They're not the RSPCA anymore, they're an unpleasant front for the animal rights agenda and people know it!
		
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Interesting but completely untrue! The monitors took the evidence of illegal hunting to the RSPCA who had no choice but to investigate. The ONLY reason it cost so much was because the guilty at first pleaded not so and to prepare therefore for a case against the Heythrop/CA the RSPCA did their very best to not cost the tax payer a penny. This would have happened had the RSPCA lost the case.


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## SarahColeman (26 January 2013)

Adina said:



			I think most of these comments are missing the point.  Whether or not you agree with hunting, it is wrong to spend 300K, when you can do it for 100K with your own in-house lawyers.
		
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Not true. Had the convicted pleaded not guilty with of course the financial support of the Heythrop and the Countryside Alliance they would have had the best lawyers in the land covering this field. The RSPCA unwittingly prepared for this due to the defendants questionable and very obviously obstructive behaviour.


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## FionaM12 (26 January 2013)

Serenity087 said:



			The RSPCA spent £300,000 of charity money on attempting to bitch slap a fox hunter.
		
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As long as the law says hunting is illegal animal cruelty, it's right people who hunt foxes should be prosecuted. Belittling it by calling it 'bitch slapping' doesn't wash.


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## SarahColeman (26 January 2013)

FionaM12 said:



			As long as the law says hunting is illegal animal cruelty, it's right people who hunt foxes should be prosecuted. Belittling it by calling it 'bitch slapping' doesn't wash.
		
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As it cost the Heythrop and the two defendants over £60,000 in fines, costs and defence costs it was more of a 'kicking' than a 'slapping'. How many hunts are willing to pay out that for a guilty plea?


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## SarahColeman (26 January 2013)

Serenity087 said:



			But if only £3 a month ensures that Fluffy and Jack can be garunteed a safe place, free from harm, how many Fluffy and Jack's have suffered and died because the RSPCA didn't like a guy's accent?

It's disgusting...
		
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If you report an animal crime to the RSPCA they have a duty to investigate. If they find evidence of a crime they prosecute. Where in that process does ones accent come into it for heavens sake?


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## competitiondiva (26 January 2013)

Interesting reading. http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/letters/letters-cps-must-start-to-hunt-the-hunters-8437632.html


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## Gingerwitch (26 January 2013)

Bedlam said:



			Oh honestly - £120K is not a huge wage for someone high up in a national organisation. Would you rather someone with no management experience was at the top of an organisation like this because of their devotion to the welfare of puppies and kittens?

Unless you pay wages like that you won't have people with the right skills or experience in place. You can't expect good people to be altruistic and work for nothing. Would you do your job for nothing just because it gave you a warm glow of satisfaction?
		
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Well they are paying the money and they certainly only have the right skills to line their own pockets - the only devotion they have is to themelves.  The whole organisation should be disbanded - and i for one think the Royal should be immediatly removed from the title.  There pleeding adverts saying they are there for animals 24/7 - they should be prosecuted under the trades discription act.

The only devotion the RSPCA has to anyone is their own pockets - they are a sham.


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## Star_Chaser (26 January 2013)

Mightymax said:



			I am neither for, nor against Hunting, but from what I have read in the press, and these are the only facts that I have access to, I feel that the point of concern is that so much Charitable money was wasted on one case. Especially in the current financial climate.

If the sums quoted are correct (in excess of 300k), surely, when local branches of the RSPCA are allegedly closing due to lack of funds, it would have made more sense to have saved that money in the interests of protecting the Welfare of many animals, rather than 'blowing' it on one high profile prosecution.

I accept that Hunting is a hot potato, But I don't think that in this instance, The RSPCA have done themselves any favours, as it comes across as being politically motivated rather than from genuine concern for animal welfare.
		
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This is my reason for interest in this the waste of donor money when animals are suffering because they cannot take any more in and are not supporting franchises that desperately need the funds.  I agree that someone has to do the job but it should not be to a degree where they literally hound someone until they make a mistake no matter who they are.


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## competitiondiva (26 January 2013)

Gingerwitch said:



			Well they are paying the money and they certainly only have the right skills to line their own pockets - the only devotion they have is to themelves.  The whole organisation should be disbanded - and i for one think the Royal should be immediatly removed from the title.  There pleeding adverts saying they are there for animals 24/7 - they should be prosecuted under the trades discription act.

The only devotion the RSPCA has to anyone is their own pockets - they are a sham.
		
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How.. Why??? Are you claiming that they do not have a 24/7 charitable service? what proof do you have that they don't?


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## Gingerwitch (26 January 2013)

competitiondiva said:



			How.. Why??? Are you claiming that they do not have a 24/7 charitable service? what proof do you have that they don't?
		
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Have you ever tried phoning them? they wont answer the phone half the time - the last twice I have invloved the police, unless its for a donation.


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## competitiondiva (26 January 2013)

Gingerwitch said:



			Have you ever tried phoning them? they wont answer the phone half the time - the last twice I have invloved the police, unless its for a donation.
		
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If they are asking for a donation then they are answering the phone???????


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## Gingerwitch (26 January 2013)

competitiondiva said:



			If they are asking for a donation then they are answering the phone???????
		
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Try reporting a bitch fox sitting in the middle of the high street after being knocked down by a car and her 2 cubs are crying... they do not want to know.... we had to invlove the police as they would create an accident.... try involving them when horses are so hungry they are eating stones.... they say they will be out within 7 to 10 days.

Try phoneing the emergency number - it rings out until it cuts off
The donation line is manned though, but they cannot help with reports of neglect or cruelty


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## Moomin1 (26 January 2013)

Gingerwitch said:



			Try reporting a bitch fox sitting in the middle of the high street after being knocked down by a car and her 2 cubs are crying... they do not want to know.... we had to invlove the police as they would create an accident.... try involving them when horses are so hungry they are eating stones.... they say they will be out within 7 to 10 days.

Try phoneing the emergency number - it rings out until it cuts off
The donation line is manned though, but they cannot help with reports of neglect or cruelty
		
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What an absolute load of...


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## competitiondiva (26 January 2013)

Gingerwitch said:



			Try reporting a bitch fox sitting in the middle of the high street after being knocked down by a car and her 2 cubs are crying... they do not want to know.... we had to invlove the police as they would create an accident.... try involving them when horses are so hungry they are eating stones.... they say they will be out within 7 to 10 days.

Try phoneing the emergency number - it rings out until it cuts off
The donation line is manned though, but they cannot help with reports of neglect or cruelty
		
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Don't want to know or answer the phone, or didn't attend or answer the phone in the time frame you wanted or expected?


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## Gingerwitch (26 January 2013)

competitiondiva said:



			Don't want to know or answer the phone, or didn't attend or answer the phone in the time frame you wanted or expected?
		
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Right - the phone rings out and rings out and then cuts off, the phone rings out rings out and then cuts off, the phone rings out rings out then cuts off, after trying for over an hour and a half they answer - but do not want to know - 

so make your own mind up


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## competitiondiva (26 January 2013)

Gingerwitch said:



			Right - the phone rings out and rings out and then cuts off, the phone rings out rings out and then cuts off, the phone rings out rings out then cuts off, after trying for over an hour and a half they answer - but do not want to know - 

so make your own mind up
		
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sorry am just trying to get this straight, so they either had phone issues or not enough staff to answer the lines, then when they did answer they just said what 'no we don't care and won't deal with it'???? if so somehow, i'm not buying it, and if that is the case, then I personally would have been writing to the headquarters to let them know about it!


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## Gingerwitch (26 January 2013)

competitiondiva said:



			sorry am just trying to get this straight, so they either had phone issues or not enough staff to answer the lines, then when they did answer they just said what 'no we don't care and won't deal with it'???? if so somehow, i'm not buying it, and if that is the case, then I personally would have been writing to the headquarters to let them know about it!
		
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Ref the fox incident - if you do not believe me i am sure that the local police station have the records for the fox incident as they had to come out due to the high chance of an accident being caused by the cubs running into the middle of the traffic signals. 

The horses were down in Happy Valley in Wales, again I am sure if you don't belive me then if you check into the records you will find my phone calls against the place and the comment being that they were really busy and would try and attend within 7 to 10 days - the local vet was related to the person that owned the "riding school" but hopefully that had no bearing.


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## competitiondiva (26 January 2013)

Sound to me more like over stretched than 'don't care'


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## MillyMoomie (27 January 2013)

GW when you phoned did you get all the automated messages then explaining about stray dogs, wildlife etc?


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## Hunters (27 January 2013)

I hope the animal rights activist & new chairman of the RSPCA is happy with all within his institution.

From where I'm sitting (reading all of this & the papers) he couldn't have done more to damage his organisation. Although, I will concede he has made fellow animal rights supporters happy...

It is quite laughable how one mans personal vendetta/interference can damage an already floundering society. 

Such a shame for all the animals that do need help!


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## JanetGeorge (27 January 2013)

competitiondiva said:



			sorry am just trying to get this straight, so they either had phone issues or not enough staff to answer the lines, then when they did answer they just said what 'no we don't care and won't deal with it'???? if so somehow, i'm not buying it, and if that is the case, then I personally would have been writing to the headquarters to let them know about it!
		
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I've only ever rung the RSPCA twice.  Once was for a stray kitten - which appeared to have the snots!  They definitely didn't want to know about THAT one.  Said they couldn't take it if it was sick.  So I took it to my vet, got it treated, and found a good home for it.

The second time was for a badger I found in a field, terrorising a horse with its behaviour.  It was in a dreadful state and I could have just shot it (but that would be illegal ) so I called the RSPCA.  Very nice girl, arrived within an hour and was apologetic about taking so long.  Badger was paralysed in the back end, covered in what looked like mange, but was still very vicious at the front end.  She skilfully got it into a crate and once she'd decided I wasn't a bunny hugger, assured me she would be finding a quiet layby and ending its pain (not sure why she didn't do it then and there!  I would guess it's 'the rules'!)

But they were called to some horses near me and achieved nothing - not sure if it was THEIR fault or the vet they took with them!


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